From ben at dadsetan.com  Thu Jul  3 16:21:14 2003
From: ben at dadsetan.com (Behrang Dadsetan)
Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 21:21:14 +0100
Subject: Python Code Snippets
References: <be1hs0$111s$1@biggoron.nerim.net> <3f044c20$0$8303$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net>
Message-ID: <3F04903A.8080009@dadsetan.com>

Guyon Mor?e wrote:
> You're gonna love this :)
> 
> http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python
> 
> 
> "Aur?lien G?ron" <ageron at HOHOHOHOvideotron.ca> wrote in message
> news:be1hs0$111s$1 at biggoron.nerim.net...
> 
>>Hi,
>>
>>Does anyone know where I can find a lot of Python code snippets?
>>

Or you might want to just look around here. In this 
newsgroup/mailing-list one gets to see really lots of nice code.

One that I would nominate as the best test for measuring a hard-core 
python programmer would be to explain the following code without the 
context :)

Karl Scalet wrote:
 > there are very likely easier ways, but at least
 >
 > s = 'C6 H12 O6'
 > print [' '.join(xx) for xx in apply(
 >     zip,[(x[0],x[1:]) for x in s.split()])]
 >
 > gives some results,
 >
 > Karl

Once I understood the above, I beleive I will write python in my Resume...

What was this about "One simple obvious way doing it"? ;)




From andy at wild-flower.co.uk  Sun Jul 13 17:33:59 2003
From: andy at wild-flower.co.uk (Andy Jewell)
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 22:33:59 +0100
Subject: Reloading nested modules
Message-ID: <200307132233.59555.andy@wild-flower.co.uk>

Does anyone know of a way to dynamically reload all the imported modules of a 
client module?

I'm writing a program that I have broken down into quite a few submodules, and 
the 'configuration' is done with modules too.  As I am developing the app, I 
need to test bits and pieces here and there.  This is what I currently do:

In each module, I have a section, just after the main imports like so:


-----------8<-----------
# normal imports:

from ooby import squibble,dibble
import dooby
import doo

# reloads for debugging

import ooby # create a reference to ooby so we can reload it
reload(ooby)
reload(dooby)
reload(doo)

# main module code begins...
-----------8<-----------


The debugging imports of course will be dropped when the program is stable.  

I also often find myself doing similar stuff from the command-line, like:

reload(ooby.oojar); reload(ooby.dibble); reload(ooby);  ooby.somefunc(.....)

I just wondered if anyone had develped a better 'spell' or even a small script 
that uses some clever intorspecton hack, before I go and start trying to 
reinvent the wheel...

-andyj




From ben at dadsetan.com  Thu Jul 10 02:53:44 2003
From: ben at dadsetan.com (Behrang Dadsetan)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 08:53:44 +0200
Subject: Deleting specific characters from a string
In-Reply-To: <38ec68a6.0307092151.21ba077a@posting.google.com>
References: <begfb3$7j6$1@online.de> <3F0C851C.4000500@livinglogic.de> <3F0C8AC3.5010304@dadsetan.com> <38ec68a6.0307092151.21ba077a@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bej2ko$hkf$1@online.de>

Asun Friere wrote:
> Behrang Dadsetan <ben at dadsetan.com> wrote in message news:<3F0C8AC3.5010304 at dadsetan.com>...
> 
> 
>>def isAcceptableChar(character):
>>    return charachter in "@&"
>>
>>str = filter(isAcceptableChar, str)
>>
>>is going to finally be what I am going to use.
> 
> 
> Might 'return character not in "@&"' work better?
ahem... yes of course...




From MK at foo.com  Sun Jul 20 16:24:41 2003
From: MK at foo.com (MK)
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 22:24:41 +0200
Subject: Importing WMI module into Python CGI script fails
References: <bfe49o$boan8$1@ID-174077.news.uni-berlin.de> <3F1A9A07.F71D274D@engcorp.com> <bfeobb$dtsku$1@ID-174077.news.uni-berlin.de> <3F1AEA34.5072FADE@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <bfets3$e8mu4$1@ID-174077.news.uni-berlin.de>

"Peter Hansen" <peter at engcorp.com> wrote

[...]

> I'd suggest you (a) learn more about Python, since you don't seem
> to know how to interpret error tracebacks, and (b) describe in more
> detail what you are trying to accomplish, because the problem is
> not with the "wmi" module per se, but at a lower level, and appears
> to be related to your not having the correct user permissions for
> the object you are accessing.


Fair enough. Thanks for suggestions!

I will keep digging.
MK







From daniel.nouri at con-fuse.org  Fri Jul  4 17:58:51 2003
From: daniel.nouri at con-fuse.org (Daniel Nouri)
Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 21:58:51 GMT
Subject: 'self' disappearing
References: <oprrsnmr1wjjo9mx@news.chello.at>
Message-ID: <oprrs3cdn1jjo9mx@news.chello.at>

Answering my own question:
Only a class attribute that is of FunctionType will be automatically 
converted into a bound method by the Python interpreter. If I wanted more 
control, I would have to do it through metaclasses.

However, my (working) approach now is to return a function instead of a 
class instance, using this simple closure:

	def make_funwrapper(fun):
	    def funwrapper(*args, **kwds):
	        print 'Calling', fun.__name__
	        fun(*args, **kwds)
	
	    return funwrapper

Note that this requires Python 2.2 or 'from __future__ import 
nested_scopes' because I'm using 'fun' in the nested function.



From bokr at oz.net  Sat Jul 12 18:47:03 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 12 Jul 2003 22:47:03 GMT
Subject: Newbie with sort text file question
References: <86d2ca4.0307121146.3deb854a@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <beq357$thj$0@216.39.172.122>

On 12 Jul 2003 12:46:51 -0700, stuart_clemons at us.ibm.com (stuartc) wrote:

>Hi:
>
>I'm not a total newbie, but I'm pretty green.  I need to sort a text
>file and then get a total for the number of occurances for a part of
>the string. Hopefully, this will explain it better:
>
>Here's the text file: 
>
>banana_c \\yellow
>apple_a \\green
>orange_b \\yellow
>banana_d \\green
>orange_a \\orange
>apple_w \\yellow
>banana_e \\green
>orange_x \\yellow
>orange_y \\orange
>
>I would like two output files:
>
>1) Sorted like this, by the fruit name (the name before the dash)
>
>apple_a \\green
>apple_w \\yellow
>banana_c \\yellow
>banana_d \\green
>banana_e \\green
>orange_a \\orange
>orange_b \\yellow
>orange_x \\yellow
>orange_y \\orange
>
>2) Then summarized like this, ordered with the highest occurances
>first:
>
>orange occurs 4
>banana occurs 3
>apple occurs 2
>
>Total occurances is 9
>
>Thanks for any help !

===< stuartc.py >========================================================
import StringIO
textf = StringIO.StringIO(r"""
banana_c \\yellow
apple_a \\green
orange_b \\yellow
banana_d \\green
orange_a \\orange
apple_w \\yellow
banana_e \\green
orange_x \\yellow
orange_y \\orange
""")

# I would like two output files:
# (actually two files ?? Ok)

# 1) Sorted like this, by the fruit name (the name before the dash)

fruitlist = [line.split('_',1) for line in textf if line.strip()]
fruitlist.sort()

# apple_a \\green
# apple_w \\yellow
# banana_c \\yellow
# banana_d \\green
# banana_e \\green
# orange_a \\orange
# orange_b \\yellow
# orange_x \\yellow
# orange_y \\orange

outfile_1 = StringIO.StringIO()
outfile_1.write(''.join(['_'.join(pair) for pair in fruitlist]))

# 2) Then summarized like this, ordered with the highest occurances
# first:

# orange occurs 4
# banana occurs 3
# apple occurs 2

outfile_2 = StringIO.StringIO()
fruitfreq = {}
for fruit, dummyvar in fruitlist: fruitfreq[fruit] = fruitfreq.get(fruit, 0)+1
fruitfreqlist = [(occ,name) for name,occ in fruitfreq.items()]
fruitfreqlist.sort()
fruitfreqlist.reverse()
outfile_2.write('\n'.join(['%s occurs %s'%(name,occ) for occ,name in fruitfreqlist]+['']))

# Total occurances is 9
print >> outfile_2,"Total occurances [sic] is [sic] %s" % reduce(int.__add__, fruitfreq.values())

## show results
print '\nFile 1:\n------------\n%s------------' % outfile_1.getvalue()
print '\nFile 2:\n------------\n%s------------' % outfile_2.getvalue()
=========================================================================
executed:

[15:52] C:\pywk\clp>stuartc.py

File 1:
------------
apple_a \\green
apple_w \\yellow
banana_c \\yellow
banana_d \\green
banana_e \\green
orange_a \\orange
orange_b \\yellow
orange_x \\yellow
orange_y \\orange
------------

File 2:
------------
orange occurs 4
banana occurs 3
apple occurs 2
Total occurances [sic] is [sic] 9
------------

Is that what you wanted?

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From cookedm+news at physics.mcmaster.ca  Wed Jul  9 17:46:28 2003
From: cookedm+news at physics.mcmaster.ca (David M. Cooke)
Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 17:46:28 -0400
Subject: Shared vs static link performance hit --and Windows?
References: <k7clgvoqjur1f10mosue3os74vv7nd34hi@4ax.com> <6ee58e07.0307091112.4931c31b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <qnku19vpe4r.fsf@arbutus.physics.mcmaster.ca>

At some point, llothar at web.de (Lothar Scholz) wrote:

> Christos "TZOTZIOY" Georgiou <tzot at sil-tec.gr> wrote in message news:<k7clgvoqjur1f10mosue3os74vv7nd34hi at 4ax.com>...
>> Last night I was compiling the latest python snapshot at my home Linux
>> system (a K6-III @420 --the extra 20 Hz is overclocking :); then I tried
>> building a shared version of the interpreter.  I did some speed
>> comparisons, and pystone reported ~6090 pystones for the shared and
>> ~7680 pystones for the (default) static build.
>> 
>
> Yes, today i recommend to not use the -fPIC option for certain
> libraries when compiling a .so library. If you use it you get one more
> indirection and this can be very bad on systems with long CPU
> pipelines (PIV systems). If you don't use -fPIC then the shared
> library will be patched and is only shared on disk but not in memory.

On PowerPC Linux (or any PPC Unix using ELF), AFAIK, compiling shared
libraries *without* -fPIC will run you into trouble. This is espically
true if you then link to a library that was compiled with -fPIC.
You'll get errors like 'R_PPC_REL24 relocation ...'. I certainly see
problems with bad code that doesn't use -fPIC that runs on x86, but
not on PPC.

x86 has a different way of doing things from PPC that doesn't bite you
on the ass when you compile without -fPIC. You especially run into
trouble when you mix non-fPIC code with -fPIC code.

[while we're on the subject, I'll point out that -fpic and -fPIC are
not equivalent. -fpic can run out of space in the global offset table,
while -fPIC avoids that. x86 doesn't have that limit, so I see people
using -fpic where they should be using -fPIC.]

-- 
|>|\/|<
/--------------------------------------------------------------------------\
|David M. Cooke
|cookedm(at)physics(dot)mcmaster(dot)ca



From domma at procoders.net  Mon Jul 21 12:07:14 2003
From: domma at procoders.net (Achim Domma)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 18:07:14 +0200
Subject: COM interface to the Python interpreter
References: <bfgsf3$iuh$1@news.mch.sbs.de>
Message-ID: <bfh33i$lcp$06$1@news.t-online.com>

Hi Christian,

> under Win32 it is possible to use Python as a scripting language inside
ASP
> pages (win32lib package), so there must be a COM interface to the Python
> interpreter.
>
> I like to use this interface instead of writing my own COM server to
invoke
> Python scripts from COM aware languages,  unfortunately i can not find the
> type-library for this interface.

I think you are mixing something. To be available as scripting language
inside ASP, there has to be a special interface, but it's not a 'simple'
IDispatch based interface. You can look at the documentation of the Windows
Scripting Host on how to use it in your own apps. Then you can automate your
App with all installed scripting languages.
If you would give us more details about what you want to do, one could
answer more helpfully.

regards,
Achim





From http  Fri Jul 11 01:24:33 2003
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 10 Jul 2003 22:24:33 -0700
Subject: Securing 'pickle'
References: <pan.2003.07.11.01.20.47.998070@127.0.0.1> <mailman.1057889236.17205.python-list@python.org> <m3isq9wta3.fsf@ferret.object-craft.com.au>
Message-ID: <7x3chdfxf2.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Dave Cole <djc at object-craft.com.au> writes:
>     def pickle_sign(self, text):
>         m = md5.new()
>         m.update(self.__secret)
>         m.update(text)
>         text = m.digest() + text
>         return text

Use instead:

     def pickle_sign(self, text):
         m = hmac.new(self.__secret)
         m.update(text)
         text = m.digest() + text
         return text

     def pickle_unsign(self, text):
         digest = text[:16]
         text = text[16:]
         m = hmac.new(self.__secret)
         m.update(self.__secret)
         m.update(text)
         if m.digest() == digest:
             return text
         raise CookieError # or something like that

Differences are: 
   
1) use hmac instead of md5, to prevent appending attack

2) raise an exception if authentication fails, and handle it of
   course.  The null string might be a valid cookie value and
   returning it on authentication failure lets attacker force return
   of a null string.

There's another issue, mentioned in other post: if you have several
pickles in separate cookies, you should sign them all together, not
use an independent signature for each pickle like your class does.

Say session 1 sets pickles A and B, and session 2 sets pickles C and
D.  With independent signatures, an attacker controlling both sessions
can send back A and C, or B and D, with results that might confuse
the application.



From gsmatthew at ozemail.com.au  Fri Jul 18 17:28:08 2003
From: gsmatthew at ozemail.com.au (Graeme Matthew)
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 07:28:08 +1000
Subject: Threading Pool Event()
References: <0tRRa.212$vD1.8077@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au> <bf8ri5$cs7$1@panix1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <NDZRa.273$vD1.11889@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au>

Aahz

Thanks, ive actually been using your OSCON slides which have helped a lot.
So it technically correct that all worker threads in a thread pool are
either doing some work  or polling the queue to find out if there is a job
to process ?

eg: (pseudocodish :-))

def run(self):

    while 1:

        self.lock.acquire()

        if QueueManager.HasJob:
            job = QueueManager.GetFreeJob()
            __processJob(job)

        self.lock.release()

 def __processJob(self):

        blah blah blah .....


many thanks ......
"Aahz" <aahz at pythoncraft.com> wrote in message
news:bf8ri5$cs7$1 at panix1.panix.com...
> In article <0tRRa.212$vD1.8077 at nnrp1.ozemail.com.au>,
> Graeme Matthew <gsmatthew at ozemail.com.au> wrote:
> >
> >I just cannot seem to find any documentation that shows an example of
> >using the factory method Event() in threads. I have a thread pool and
> >if there are no jobs in a Queue I want them to wait for something to
> >be inserted. When a job is inserted I want to send an Event, the first
> >thread that picks it up runs with the job the rest wait for another
> >insert Event.
>
> Given that you're already using a Queue, there is no, repeat NO, reason
> for using an Event.  Just have your threads block on the Queue.
> --
> Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>
http://www.pythoncraft.com/
>
> A: No.
> Q: Is top-posting okay?





From gh at ghaering.de  Wed Jul  2 16:54:52 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 22:54:52 +0200
Subject: undo tab
In-Reply-To: <3F02ECF0.105@gmx.net>
References: <3F02E7D5.4060401@gmx.net>
	<bduq2n$114jav$1@ID-67890.news.dfncis.de> <3F02ECF0.105@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <3F03469C.4030508@ghaering.de>

Tom wrote:
> [how to (un)tabify]
> 
> it doesn't work with any editor that I tried. The one I use on a regular 
> basis is the standard python IDLE. Sometimes I also use the editor of 
> pythonwin and Boa-Constructor.

IDLE: Mark block. Menu: Edit/Indent Region Edit/Dedent Region.

There are shortcuts for this. Which ones you can see in the Edit menu.

PythonWin: mark block, press Tab or Shift-Tab. Works For Me [tm].

-- Gerhard




From duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk  Wed Jul 16 05:04:18 2003
From: duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk (Duncan Booth)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 09:04:18 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: hex check
References: <mailman.1058340712.8247.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Xns93BA647E5DB65duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

Ruslan Spivak <alienoid at is.lg.ua> wrote in 
news:mailman.1058340712.8247.python-list at python.org:

> Does anybody have a hint how to check if input hex number is in correct 
> hex format?
> 
Use 'int' to convert it to a number, catch the exception if it isn't a 
valid format:

>>> int('aa',16)
170
>>> int('0xaa',16)
170
>>> int('ag',16)
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<pyshell#13>", line 1, in ?
    int('ag',16)
ValueError: invalid literal for int(): ag
>>> 


-- 
Duncan Booth                                             duncan at rcp.co.uk
int month(char *p){return(124864/((p[0]+p[1]-p[2]&0x1f)+1)%12)["\5\x8\3"
"\6\7\xb\1\x9\xa\2\0\4"];} // Who said my code was obscure?



From tyler at scalegen.com  Fri Jul  4 00:22:34 2003
From: tyler at scalegen.com (Tyler Eaves)
Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 00:22:34 -0400
Subject: FYI:  pyBoards.com
References: <191e20c8.0307031711.42d4e46b@posting.google.com> <3F04E609.2010500@dadsetan.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2003.07.04.04.22.34.435148@scalegen.com>

On Fri, 04 Jul 2003 03:27:21 +0100, Behrang Dadsetan wrote:

> A bit a pitty the message board system is php based..

> Ben.

Why? Right tool for the job and all that...

 



From jon+usenet at unequivocal.co.uk  Thu Jul 10 19:33:12 2003
From: jon+usenet at unequivocal.co.uk (Jon Ribbens)
Date: 10 Jul 2003 23:33:12 GMT
Subject: Sample Web application
References: <mailman.1057574470.1750.python-list@python.org> <kmolgv4mp12o71ocion7ra0m2s9fcrqjdk@4ax.com> <begc78$rui$1@mawar.singnet.com.sg> <VLicnfImRJLPkpGiRTvUqA@speakeasy.net> <behc69$o3t$1@news1.wdf.sap-ag.de> <mailman.1057772055.6056.python-list@python.org> <tYqcnZji2bzS5ZGiRTvUqg@speakeasy.net> <mailman.1057801994.30346.python-list@python.org> <u_ucnTmf55NP4pCiRTvUqA@speakeasy.net> <mailman.1057862838.7508.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrnbgrtto.16p.jon+usenet@snowy.squish.net>

In article <mailman.1057862838.7508.python-list at python.org>, Ian Bicking wrote:
> Well, it wasn't Quixote I was talking about.  It was more things like
> jonpy (with wt templates, specifically)

Well, the way 'wt' works requires you to put 2 lines of mod_rewrite
rules in your .htaccess or httpd.conf, there's no getting around that.
I don't see it as a big hardship though. It's kind've fundamental to
they way 'wt' templates work and 2 lines of work in advance means a
lot of work saving later on.

If you don't like the 'wt' templates then just use the rest of jonpy
without them...



From leo.broska at NOSPAM.isys.com.au  Wed Jul  2 02:46:38 2003
From: leo.broska at NOSPAM.isys.com.au (Leo)
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 16:46:38 +1000
Subject: arbitrary long integer aritmetics
Message-ID: <bdtv1s$22dm$1@otis.netspace.net.au>

hi all

is there a python module around allow using arbitrary long integers?

i.e. the result of an integer operation is as long as necessary, so that a*b
never produces an overflow error. (but rather an out of memory error ;-) )

thanks, leo





From tebeka at cs.bgu.ac.il  Thu Jul 17 06:05:31 2003
From: tebeka at cs.bgu.ac.il (Miki Tebeka)
Date: 17 Jul 2003 03:05:31 -0700
Subject: hex to signed integer
References: <vhbq0kr6ftvr0e@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <33803989.0307170205.6cc6ffe@posting.google.com>

Hello Tom,

> I want to convert a string of hexadecimal characters to the signed
> integer they would have been before the <print> statement converted
> them.  How do I do this in such a way that is compatible with Python
> versions 1.5.2 through 2.4, and not machine-dependent?
eval?
e.g.:
>>> eval("0x%s" % "FF")
255

HTH.
Miki



From mwh at python.net  Fri Jul 18 07:43:48 2003
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 11:43:48 GMT
Subject: [development doc updates]
References: <20030715221007.07C7A18F01B@grendel.zope.com> <mailman.1058521589.11837.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7h38yqw12yn.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

Andy Jewell <andy at wild-flower.co.uk> writes:

> Does the following still hold true?  I thought it had all changed -
> do the new resolution rules only apply to "New Style Classes" ?

Yes.

Cheers,
M.

-- 
  You owe the Oracle a star-spangled dunce cap.
                 -- Internet Oracularity Internet Oracularity #1299-08



From russelllear at earthlink.net  Wed Jul  2 23:26:33 2003
From: russelllear at earthlink.net (Russell Lear)
Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 03:26:33 GMT
Subject: Copying files in Python
Message-ID: <JnNMa.22804$C83.2152498@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>

A simple question from a python beginner: How do I do 'cp -p source
destination' where source could be a list of files and destination could be
a file or directory (I could break the operation up if it must be file to
file)?  Perserving file creation time is important.  Platform independence
also nice.

Clearly I could open the source file for reading and a destination file for
writing and copy the bits over, but that might not preserve the file
creation time.

Right now I'm running Python 2.2.2 on SuSE Linux 8.2

I'll probably find the answer to this 30 minutes after posting this (isn't
that always the way?) but any help would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Russell.




From timr at probo.com  Sat Jul 19 21:22:15 2003
From: timr at probo.com (Tim Roberts)
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 18:22:15 -0700
Subject: Jerry Pournelle, Byte, Python, and Python in a Nutshell
References: <mailman.1052512578.868.python-list@python.org> <3ebfb0c2$0$2616$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <b9oh6n$h0s$0@216.39.172.122> <ogqghv8hpbo65h09o089rbik1k22p34h8t@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <eirjhv8e051n994fouo8kva8quq51t60u0@4ax.com>

>On 12 May 2003 16:13:11 GMT, bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) wrote:
>
>>[OT] Are old mags and journals worth anything? I have tons (almost literally ;-)
>>of old Bytes, DrDobbs, ACM Communications, SigPlan, SigOps, IEEE Computer, etc. etc.
>>which I'd like to dispose of without feeling like I've thrown away money or
>>something of value to someone.

I have every Byte ever printed.  I was a charter subscriber back in
September, 1975 (first tag line: "Computers: The World's Greatest Toys!"),
and I kept the subscription until they collapsed.

I keep thinking they'll be worth money some day, but I suspect I'm
dreaming.
-- 
- Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
  Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.



From jon+usenet at unequivocal.co.uk  Tue Jul  8 12:02:48 2003
From: jon+usenet at unequivocal.co.uk (Jon Ribbens)
Date: 8 Jul 2003 16:02:48 GMT
Subject: Python vs PHP
References: <mailman.1057574470.1750.python-list@python.org> <kmolgv4mp12o71ocion7ra0m2s9fcrqjdk@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <slrnbglqp8.os1.jon+usenet@snowy.squish.net>

In article <kmolgv4mp12o71ocion7ra0m2s9fcrqjdk at 4ax.com>, Afanasiy wrote:
> A couple other slight issues :
> 
> * catch-all error handling not as flexible or non-existent
> * no equivalent to php_value auto_prepend_file "_header.php"
> * no equivalent to php_value auto_append_file "_footer.php"
> * not as intelligent form value handling
> * white space sensitivity is a unique problem when embedding

Try jonpy (http://jonpy.sf.net/), it solves all of the above.
Also you may find FastCGI (which jonpy supports) helps with your
"safe mode" problem, although it might require a bit of hackery.



From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Mon Jul  7 22:57:56 2003
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 21:57:56 -0500
Subject: getting a submatrix of all true
In-Reply-To: <bed4cl$99e$0@216.39.172.122> (bokr@oz.net's message of "8 Jul
 2003 00:48:21 GMT")
References: <mailman.1057173484.29754.python-list@python.org>
	<be0b84$89a$0@216.39.172.122>
	<52fe159d.0307041016.4dcb4a5c@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.1057593794.2369.python-list@python.org>
	<bed4cl$99e$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <m2u19xk9mz.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

>>>>> "Bengt" == Bengt Richter <bokr at oz.net> writes:

    Bengt> Curiousness: what do your observations represent?

By day, I do research in neurology and neurobiology.  By night, stock
market analysis: academia doesn't pay!  I have written several modules
to parse the Yahoo Finance pages, eg,
http://biz.yahoo.com/z/a/x/xoma.html and
http://biz.yahoo.com/p/x/xoma.html.  The 2 fields which you identified
as missing on all but 2 observations are Revenue Estimates: "Year Ago
Sales" and "Sales Growth" for This Year, both of which are N/A for
almost all tickers.

    Jon> Interesting problem!
    Bengt> Yes. So many, so little time ... ;-/

Exactly. 

JDH




From kericks272 at earthlink.net  Thu Jul 24 11:06:29 2003
From: kericks272 at earthlink.net (ken)
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 15:06:29 GMT
Subject: python 2.2 string conversion ?
References: <FaKTa.117362$Io.10011057@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <mailman.1059027097.828.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <VBSTa.117832$Io.10053237@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>

It wasn't clear to me when I read the docs - I inferred that the long()
built-in only took 1 parameter.

Thanks everybody.

"Gary Herron" <gherron at islandtraining.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.1059027097.828.python-list at python.org...
> >
> > >>> x="e10ea210"
> > >>> y=long(x)
> >
> > Traceback (most recent call last):
> >   File "<pyshell#7>", line 1, in ?
> >     y=long(x)
> > ValueError: invalid literal for long(): e10ea210
>
> > What am I doing wrong?
>
> You didn't specify what you are trying to do here, but I'll make a
> wild *guess* that the string in x is a hexadecimal (i.e., base 16)
> value.  However, Python can't go around making such a guess, so you
> have to explicitly specify your radix (radix being another term for
> base) like this:
>
> >>> print long("e10ea210",16)
> 3775832592
>
> or tell it to infer the radix from a '0x' prefix:
>
> >>> print long("0xe10ea210",0)
> 3775832592
>
> Here are the relevant portions of the manual:
>
> long(x[, radix])
>
>   Convert a string or number to a long integer. If the argument is a
>   string, it must contain a possibly signed number of arbitrary size,
>   possibly embedded in whitespace; this behaves identical to
>   string.atol(x). The radix argument is interpreted in the same way as
>   for int(), and may only be given when x is a string. Otherwise, the
>   argument may be a plain or long integer or a floating point number,
>   and a long integer with the same value is returned. Conversion of
>   floating point numbers to integers truncates (towards zero).
>
>
> int(x[, radix])
>
>   Convert a string or number to a plain integer. If the argument is a
>   string, it must contain a possibly signed decimal number
>   representable as a Python integer, possibly embedded in whitespace;
>   this behaves identical to string.atoi(x[, radix]). The radix
>   parameter gives the base for the conversion and may be any integer
>   in the range [2, 36], or zero. If radix is zero, the proper radix is
>   guessed based on the contents of string; the interpretation is the
>   same as for integer literals. If radix is specified and x is not a
>   string, TypeError is raised. Otherwise, the argument may be a plain
>   or long integer or a floating point number. Conversion of floating
>   point numbers to integers truncates (towards zero). If the argument
>   is outside the integer range a long object will be returned instead.
>
>
> Gary Herron
>
>
>
>





From theller at python.net  Thu Jul 17 12:47:02 2003
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 18:47:02 +0200
Subject: Unicode question
References: <mailman.1058456911.22551.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <65m1yubd.fsf@python.net>

Gerhard H?ring <gh at ghaering.de> writes:

>  >>> u"???"
> u'\x84\x94\x81'
>
> (Python 2.2.3/2.3b2; sys.getdefaultencoding() == "ascii")
>
> Why does this work?
>
> Does Python guess which encoding I mean? I thought Python should
> refuse to guess :-)

I stumbled over this yesterday, and it seems it is (at least) partially
answered by PEP 263:

    In Python 2.1, Unicode literals can only be written using the
    Latin-1 based encoding "unicode-escape". This makes the programming
    environment rather unfriendly to Python users who live and work in
    non-Latin-1 locales such as many of the Asian countries. Programmers
    can write their 8-bit strings using the favorite encoding, but are
    bound to the "unicode-escape" encoding for Unicode literals.

I have the impression that this is undocumented on purpose, because you
should not write unescaped non-ansi characters into the source file
(with 'unknown' encoding).

Thomas



From lists at gregfortune.com  Fri Jul 11 09:31:23 2003
From: lists at gregfortune.com (Greg Fortune)
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 06:31:23 -0700
Subject: sort() doesn't work on dist.keys() ?
References: <6cd58b6.0307101214.34e99f2a@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <DRyPa.2535$Jk5.1688056@feed2.centurytel.net>

Because sorts works in place and the sort fuction returns None rather than a
copy of the list.  Try


import sys
temp = sys.modules.keys()
temp.sort()
print temp


Greg


Steve Pinard wrote:

> (Got a comm error trying to post first time, sorry if this
> is a duplicate)
> 
> New to Python, so please bear with me.
> 
>>>> import sys
>>>> print sys.modules.keys()          # works fine
> ['code', ...snip... ]
>>>> print sys.modules.keys().sort()   # returns None, why?
> None
> 
> According to my reference (Nutshell), keys() returns a
> "copy" of the dict keys as a list, so I would expect when
> I aply sort() to that list, I would get an in-place sorted
> version of that list.  Why do I get None?
> 
> TIA,
> - Steve




From wolfson at uchicago.edu  Sat Jul  5 21:15:14 2003
From: wolfson at uchicago.edu (Ben Wolfson)
Date: Sun, 06 Jul 2003 01:15:14 GMT
Subject: problems with sf cvs server?
Message-ID: <slrnbgeu10.o3b.wolfson@senator.cs.uchicago.edu>

Is anyone else experiencing trouble checking the python source tree
out of the sf cvs server?  I hang forever here:

cvs server: Updating python/nondist/src/Compiler/tests/output

-- 
BTR    
The Glass Marble, mistaking the No. 37 Penpoint for the Four-Holed
Button, pushed it into the Yawning Chasm.



From irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl  Wed Jul 30 19:40:16 2003
From: irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 01:40:16 +0200
Subject: Convert a number to it name...
In-Reply-To: <daf62359.0307291831.2fea6592@posting.google.com>
References: <daf62359.0307291831.2fea6592@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3f285760$0$49111$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

Mauro Baraldi wrote:
> Someone can help how to convert a number to it name. Well I'll explain...

Ben suggested the pynum2word project, but you might also want to
take a look at my 'number.py' that is part of Snakelets (as an
example). It works with data files for over 70 languages.

http://tinyurl.com/ikim

Don't pay attention to the code style-- it's ugly as sin,
because it is a straight port from some very old C code.

--Irmen




From Kepes.Krisztian at peto.hu  Mon Jul 28 03:16:55 2003
From: Kepes.Krisztian at peto.hu (Krisztian Kepes)
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 09:16:55 +0200
Subject: The protection of resources
Message-ID: <sf24ea27.057@testmail.peto.hu>

Hi !

In this time I use the Lock() for thread synchronization, and resource

protection.

But in the new project I must reorganize this thing.
The program must be run in lin/win, so I cannot use the winapi.

I need to protect resources from concurrent r/w.
Possible that the modules are not threads but are tasks.

In the Delphi and WinAPI I use the Mutex, that is a simple, opsystem 
protected thing to signaling.
It is a simple signal (1/0).

I search for this in python, but I see only mutex with "procedure
queue".
I cannot see a signal like thing.
I want to only signaling: the resource are taken or not.
I don't want to wait for the non used state (not block !).

So these my questions:
- 1. How to use the py mutex object ? Please send an example to me !
- 2. Have the py an signal object ? (platform !!!)
- 3. Is any solution is a file locking.  Have the py a possibility of
exclusive 
file opening ?


Thx:
 KK





From tim.one at comcast.net  Wed Jul 16 10:52:56 2003
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 10:52:56 -0400
Subject: <> and !=
In-Reply-To: <3F155B6D.8000205@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <BIEJKCLHCIOIHAGOKOLHGEDOGFAA.tim.one@comcast.net>

[hokiegal99, on <> vs !=]
> What's the reason for having two symbols mean the same thing?

Hysterical raisins.  Python originally used only "<>".  C programmers whined
about that, so Python added "!=" too.  But Python code already used "<>", so
it was too late to get rid of that one.  "<>" was deprecated instead.
That's a computer science term usually meaning it's like a mentally
disturbed uncle:  we won't kill it, but we won't talk about it either
<wink>.  The good news is that Guido has become more hardened to whining
over the centures since then.





From irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl  Wed Jul 30 08:32:12 2003
From: irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 14:32:12 +0200
Subject: RELEASED Python 2.3 (final)
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1059523523.23534.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1059523523.23534.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3f27bacd$0$49113$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

Barry A. Warsaw wrote:
> On behalf of the Python development team and the Python community, I'm
> happy to announce the release of Python 2.3 (final).

kudo

1 : AWARD, HONOR <a score of honorary degrees and... other kudos -- Time>
2 : COMPLIMENT, PRAISE <to all three should go some kind of special kudo for 
refusing to succumb -- Al Hine>

(M-W)

--Irmen de Jong




From intentionally at blank.co.uk  Sun Jul 13 17:20:33 2003
From: intentionally at blank.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 22:20:33 +0100
Subject: anything like C++ references?
References: <13t0hvsb7idh0g6ac3upe5k0qd6flc17ah@4ax.com> <pan.2003.07.13.10.58.11.376531@127.0.0.1> <lq-cnWRG9rRuMIyiXTWJjQ@comcast.com> <b8c3hvsesjoumiboobml3nsnajtha99mp1@4ax.com> <mailman.1058126720.6756.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <dji3hv4uf7fi47l61hhurkf10ot9rjqgen@4ax.com>

On 13 Jul 2003 15:05:38 -0500, Ian Bicking <ianb at colorstudy.com>
wrote:

>On Sun, 2003-07-13 at 14:39, Stephen Horne wrote:
>> The fact is that 'assignment' has a common meaning separate from the
>> choice of programming language, 
>
>This just isn't true.  The C++ assignment operator is not at all like
>the Python assignment statement.  Python variables are not like C++
>variables, no surprise assignment is different too.  If you used
>languages outside of C++ and its like (e.g., Pascal), you would find
>Python's behavior common.

Think again.

When I say "'assignment' has a common meaning separate from the choice
of programming language" I assumed you would get the hint. I'm not
referring to some specific other programming language, of which I have
used many - and not all of them imperative. I am referring to the
definitions in computer theory, which do not relate to any specific
programming language but actually apply to all of them, irrespective
of paradigm and everything else.

Of course, if you really believe that pointer/reference behaviour
should be arbitrarily tied to mutability then you can claim that I am
wrong, but you still can't claim the high ground as this is still an
arbitrary and bizarre thing to do. The ability to change part or all
of a value in-place has nothing to do with whether that value is
referenced using a pointer or whatever in computer theory - any link
between pointers/references and mutability should be related to the
implementation of the language - not the semantics.

So much for dropping out of the discussion, but I hate it when people
make false claims about my beliefs, making me out to be ignorant, when
it is *not* *me* who is missing the point.




From afriere at yahoo.co.uk  Wed Jul 30 22:28:57 2003
From: afriere at yahoo.co.uk (Asun Friere)
Date: 30 Jul 2003 19:28:57 -0700
Subject: RELEASED Python 2.3 (final)
References: <mailman.1059523523.23534.python-list@python.org> <3f27bacd$0$49113$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl> <c76ff6fc.0307301323.62f3ccd6@posting.google.com> <bg9hgu$k31$1@panix2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <38ec68a6.0307301828.7310e01b@posting.google.com>

aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) wrote in message news:<bg9hgu$k31$1 at panix2.panix.com>...
> In article <c76ff6fc.0307301323.62f3ccd6 at posting.google.com>,
> John Machin <sjmachin at lexicon.net> wrote:
> >
> >So ... could we please change that to "much kudos"?
> 
> Nope.  Kudos is a mass noun, but it's a discrete mass noun.  So you need
> to say "many kudos".

I believe it is customary to use the construction 'great kudos,'
which, in any case, you all deserve.



From irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl  Tue Jul 29 18:07:32 2003
From: irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 00:07:32 +0200
Subject: Showing IP address of a user...
In-Reply-To: <bg6n18$k8lvp$1@ID-114079.news.uni-berlin.de>
References: <7b454334.0307291005.53ee8c07@posting.google.com> <bg6n18$k8lvp$1@ID-114079.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <3f26f026$0$49117$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

Jeremy Yallop wrote:

>   os.environ['REMOTE_ADDR']

Ofcourse, this is only available when you're in a CGI-like
environment. When running inside mod_python, or something
else, I doubt that this environment variable is available.
In those cases, there is usually a specific way of obtaining
the client's address, either directly or via the socket
that represents the network connection. But this depends
on what you're running!


--Irmen




From 2002 at weholt.org  Mon Jul  7 07:34:41 2003
From: 2002 at weholt.org (Thomas Weholt ( PRIVAT ))
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 13:34:41 +0200
Subject: Python vs PHP
References: <mailman.1057574470.1750.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <oVcOa.11344$Hb.199768@news4.e.nsc.no>

Replace PHP ? They're rather different animals, but as Web programming
languages go I think there is little you can do in PHP that you cannot do in
Python some way or another.

Python has good support MySQL. Search for Mysql and python on
www.sourceforge.net. The docs contain examples on how to connect to the
database too.

General tutorials on Python are available at www.python.org, but more web
specific docs depends on what you want to do, how and where ( platform
etc ).

Give a bit more details.

Thomas

"Catalin" <ady982 at ploiesti.astral.ro> wrote in message
news:mailman.1057574470.1750.python-list at python.org...
> Can Python replace PHP?
> Can I use a python program to make an interface to a mysql 4.X database?
> If that's possible where can I find a tutorial?
>
>





From pablo at bogus.domain.org  Sat Jul 19 16:48:16 2003
From: pablo at bogus.domain.org (Pablo)
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 22:48:16 +0200
Subject: classes
References: <pan.2003.07.19.20.46.33.864915@bogus.domain.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2003.07.19.20.48.16.685052@bogus.domain.org>

I am sorry my post was sent twice.



From CNDESMTP03OUServersOUKGaAOHENKEL at henkel.com  Wed Jul  9 14:00:16 2003
From: CNDESMTP03OUServersOUKGaAOHENKEL at henkel.com (CNDESMTP03OUServersOUKGaAOHENKEL at henkel.com)
Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 19:00:16 +0100
Subject: Report to Sender
Message-ID: <OFF4705FDE.606304A3-ON41256D5E.0062E714@de.henkelgroup.net>

Incident Information:-
Database:   E:/Notes/Data/mail.box
Originator: python-list at python.org
Recipients: HR.Department at cognis.com
Subject:    Re: Application
Date/Time:  07/09/2003 07:00:04 PM

The file attachment your_details.zip you sent to the recipients listed
above was infected with the W32/Sobig.e at MM virus and was deleted.






From mis6 at pitt.edu  Thu Jul 17 13:25:45 2003
From: mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato)
Date: 17 Jul 2003 10:25:45 -0700
Subject: Co-routines
References: <g7xRa.305$fF.9914@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au>
Message-ID: <2259b0e2.0307170925.5e876d1f@posting.google.com>

<thewrights at ozemail.com.au> wrote in message news:<g7xRa.305$fF.9914 at nnrp1.ozemail.com.au>...
> (I recall the malevolent and  wicked ternary operator example that was
> posted here which fiddled with function source code in the metaclass... I'm
> still picking up pieces of my brain from the floor)
> 

Oops! ;-)

To make ammend, I send you this solution:

def f1():
    for i in range(1,4):
        print "1-%s" % i; yield i

def f2():
    for i in f1():
        print "2-%s" % i

f2()

This print

1-1
2-1
1-2
2-2
1-3
2-3

However I am not sure I understand
correctly what you have in mind, so
this solution may well be not relevant
at all!


   Michele



From staschuk at telusplanet.net  Wed Jul 16 22:02:02 2003
From: staschuk at telusplanet.net (Steven Taschuk)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 20:02:02 -0600
Subject: Problems retrieving items from a list using a reference rather than an integer - can you help?
In-Reply-To: <3f15ca92@shknews01>; from lol@lolmc.com on Wed, Jul 16, 2003 at 10:57:16PM +0100
References: <3f15ca92@shknews01>
Message-ID: <20030716200202.B656@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>

Quoth Rogue9:
> draw = 1
> while 1:
> 	if draw == 792:
> 		break
> 	b1 = someOtherList[draw-1]
> 	r1 = b1[draw]
> 	draw = draw+1
> 
> However,the item I expect is not being retrieved i.e. a zero is the result
> of the retrieval rather than the integer in the list I was expecting.
> Furthermore,when I substitute an integer for draw e.g. r1 = b1[12],I
> do get the expected result.

Bizarre.  What is the value of someOtherList?

(And, as a side note, why not use a for loop, e.g.,
    for draw in range(1, 793):
        r1 = someOtherList[draw-1][draw]
        # and then, I assume, you actually do something with r1
?)

-- 
Steven Taschuk                            staschuk at telusplanet.net
Every public frenzy produces legislation purporting to address it.
                                                  (Kinsley's Law)




From akaihola at ambi-spam-me-not-tone.com  Fri Jul 18 17:58:13 2003
From: akaihola at ambi-spam-me-not-tone.com (Antti Kaihola)
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 00:58:13 +0300
Subject: Open MS Excel Spreadsheet with Python
In-Reply-To: <1c057c8e.0307171643.486e9678@posting.google.com>
References: <mailman.1058229111.12248.python-list@python.org> <1c057c8e.0307171643.486e9678@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <m1_Ra.733$_R4.591@reader1.news.jippii.net>

There's an excellent utility called xlhtml, which converts XLS 
spreadsheets to HTML files, available at 
http://chicago.sourceforge.net/xlhtml/

I made a simple Python wrapper, which uses xlhtml and parses the 
converted spreadsheet into a Python Numeric array. As I didn't need to 
do any calculations with the data, you only get cell contents as string 
objects at this time.

Note that using this method you only need freely available tools, no 
excel or windows. Also, it isn't necessary to open and save the 
spreadsheet as a CSV or XML file, which is nice if you need to batch 
process lots of spreadsheets.

Take a look at akaihola.iki.fi/comp/python and drop me a note if you 
make improvements to the code.


Antti




From geoff at gerrietts.net  Mon Jul  7 14:05:09 2003
From: geoff at gerrietts.net (Geoff Gerrietts)
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 11:05:09 -0700
Subject: python scripting game The Temple Of Elemental Evil update
In-Reply-To: <beas0t$90a$0@216.39.172.122>
References: <82ff1d8b.0307061540.5da32ae@posting.google.com> <beas0t$90a$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <20030707180509.GB26862@thoth.homegain.com>

Quoting Bengt Richter (bokr at oz.net):
> I'm wondering what "the scripting" does in the above. I.e., who writes the scripts,
> and what aspect of the games do they implement? When are they executed, and by what?
> 
> (Apologies, too lazy/tired right now to pursue it via the links on this page ;-)

Not trying to pursue this too far, and not trying to claim authority,
but most RPG-style games that use an embedded scripting environment,
use it more or less as the means of expressing content.

It's almost like the programmers build a Lego set out of C, C++, and
image files; then the game designers assemble the Legos using Python.
With a little more specificity, most of the games I have seen that use
this approach (which is a pretty large number of games) build a
graphics engine, a rules engine, and a collection of library routines
as primitives. These primitives are exposed into the scripting
language. The story itself is largely told through the scripting
language, by using the API to manage dialogue options, build quests,
etcetera.

I can't speak for the Temple of Elemental Evil in particular, but this
pattern holds true in dozens of similar titles. If they're doing
something different, they're doing something really very different.

--G.

-- 
Geoff Gerrietts <geoff at gerrietts dot net>
-rw-rw-rw-:         permissions of the beast




From adechert at earthlink.net  Mon Jul 21 20:27:29 2003
From: adechert at earthlink.net (Alan Dechert)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 00:27:29 GMT
Subject: Voting Project Needs Python People
References: <LDVSa.14955$Mc.1126731@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <5ab0af73.0307211623.6e12f807@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <Rx%Sa.15557$Mc.1169683@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>

"Matt Shomphe" <MatthewS at HeyAnita.com> wrote in message
news:5ab0af73.0307211623.6e12f807 at posting.google.com...
> "Alan Dechert" <adechert at earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:<LDVSa.14955$Mc.1126731 at newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>...
>
> > We have an excellent team together.  We're looking for a few good Python
> > coders willing to volunteer for this free open source project.  It will
be
> > on sourceforge.net later today.
>
> Are there any prerequisites for joining the team?
>
It would be nice if you know some Python.  Do you?

BTW, I'm told it will take a day or two to get the project going on
sourceforge.net.

Alan Dechert





From peter at engcorp.com  Wed Jul  9 20:35:57 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 20:35:57 -0400
Subject: SNMP support for Python under Windows
References: <538fc8e.0307091027.1825b454@posting.google.com> <3F0C65FB.1B86A0C2@engcorp.com> <538fc8e.0307091335.70526148@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3F0CB4ED.C195374F@engcorp.com>

WIWA wrote:
> 
> I did two things, both unsuccessfull:
> 
> 1) If I install the pySNMP modules under lib/site-packages and then
> type sth like:
> from pysnmp import session it gives the error message "ImportError: No
> module named pysnmp". The same happens if I unstall pySNMP directly
> under the lib directory. Installs in this context means 'copy paste'
> the *.py files of the pySNMP distribution.

I misled you the first time, but have since taken another look 
at the installation to see how it works.  In order to import
anything from a package (roughly, a set of .py files that includes an 
__init__.py file), you need to put those files in a directory
which is named for the package (e.g. pysnmp in this case) _and_ 
which is available in sys.path.  (Do "import sys" and "sys.path"
to see the list.  You probably have lib/site-packages in that
list, so just put all the PySNMP files under it in a folder called
pysnmp.)

> - Do I need to explicitly mention in my script where pySNMP is
> installed?

Not if it's in a folder called pysnmp that is itself in one of the
sys.path folders, or under the current folder.

> 2) I installed distutils 1.0.2 for Windows and it installed into the
> Python directory. So ar so good, I think...

Distutils is included in Python so you probably didn't need to do 
that, and maybe shouldn't have.  I'm not sure whether that will have 
broken the standard distutils.  It's repairable if it did.  On my
Python 2.2.1 setup here, the standard distutils is v1.0.3.

> I go to DOS prompt and go to the directory where disutils is installed
> and type in python setup.py install, but DOS replies:
> 'Python is not recognized as an internal or external command, program
> or batchfile".

Now that's a different problem.  You need python.exe to be findable
from the DOS PATH.  The simplest approach might be to check the FAQ
entry at http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw.py?req=show&file=faq08.018.htp

As a test of the pysnmp installation, without having to change PATH
at all, change to the Python directory ("cd \python" or whatever)
and run the interactive interpreter ("python") and just type 
"import pysnmp" to see if it works.

> System coordinates are Windows XP. Python version is 2.2.2 and pySNMP
> is version 3.0.0.

Should all be no problem, although I suspect instructions in that
FAQ entry may be a little light on XP advice.  Let us know if you
see any area that could be improved so others can benefit from this
exchange...

-Peter



From sac at noreply.com  Wed Jul  9 12:07:00 2003
From: sac at noreply.com (Sac)
Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 09:07:00 -0700
Subject: Python 2.2 build problems on AIX
References: <ebc0c915.0307090119.185e3b30@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <vgof6tpeol9neb@corp.supernews.com>

edadk wrote:

> Hi
> 
> I building Python on AIX using
> 
> make
> 
> However, I get some errors when building
> 
> readline
> gdbm
> 
> and
> 
> -ltermcap
> 
> is missing. See below. Can those problems be fixed?
> 
> Erling
> 
> building 'readline' extension
> cc_r -DNDEBUG -O -I.
> -I/mnt/mds/metawrk/edanders/Python-2.2.3/./Include
> -I/usr/local/include -I/mnt/mds/metawrk/edanders/Pytho
> 2.2.3/Include -I/mnt/mds/metawrk/edanders/Python-2.2.3 -c
> /mnt/mds/metawrk/edanders/Python-2.2.3/Modules/readline.c -o build/t

...(Lines Deleted)

Greetings,

You may wish to grab some of these tools and utilities from IBM. Many
Open Source packages are available. Project heading is Linux Toolbox
for AIX.

Source and binaries are available from the following IBM website:
ftp://ftp.software.ibm.com/aix/freeSoftware/aixtoolbox

Installation instructions are available from
ftp://ftp.software.ibm.com/aix/freeSoftware/aixtoolbox/README.txt

Cheers...



From max at alcyone.com  Tue Jul 15 20:35:38 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 17:35:38 -0700
Subject: md5 consistent across platforms/Python versions?
References: <mailman.1058281462.12397.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3F149DDA.EDA010EC@alcyone.com>

Gary Robinson wrote:

> I know that hash functions are often platform-dependent for efficiency
> reasons. From what I understand, this includes Python's hash(), which
> I have
> read is not guaranteed to return the same result across platforms or
> even
> across Python versions.

Yes.

> Can someone tell me whether an MD5 hash using Python's MD5 library IS
> guaranteed to return the same results for the same input string,
> across
> platforms and Python versions?

Yes.

MD5 hashes and Python's internal hash function are unrelated.

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ Nine worlds I remember.
\__/  Icelandic Edda of Snorri Sturluson



From peter at engcorp.com  Sat Jul 19 10:10:56 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 10:10:56 -0400
Subject: Threading Pool Event()
References: <0tRRa.212$vD1.8077@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au> <bf8ri5$cs7$1@panix1.panix.com> <NDZRa.273$vD1.11889@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au> <ia1Sa.304$vD1.13822@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au> <mailman.1058582130.2101.python-list@python.org> <9j3Sa.319$vD1.15038@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au>
Message-ID: <3F195170.E60FB1A6@engcorp.com>

Graeme Matthew wrote:
> 
> ok so code like this is perfectly safe
> 
> def run(self):
> 
>     while 1:
> 
>         job = queue.get()
> 
>         __processjob()

It's almost like you aren't even seeing Aahz' replies. ;-)

The above is certainly safe, but can't be terminated easily.
Just use the loop Aahz showed, which is the above plus the
ability to terminate.

-Peter



From evotrain at gmx.net  Wed Jul  9 05:22:08 2003
From: evotrain at gmx.net (Thomas Kwapich)
Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 09:22:08 GMT
Subject: pythonw freezes with print output
Message-ID: <20030709.9220899@tomsbook.internedomain.loc>

Hi,

I'm developing a wxpython application under windows 2000. 
If I start it with pythonw.exe (without dos window) it freezes 
after some time depending on the amount of print output it generates. 
On the other hand if I start it with python.exe (the dos window is shown) 
it is stable.
Reducing the print output to zero makes it even stable when started with 
pythonw.

(I tried to debug it with SciTe but it doesn't crash with it altough 
SciTe starts it with pythonw)

Any ideas why this happens?

Best regards

Thomas



From jepler at unpythonic.net  Sun Jul 13 16:40:38 2003
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 15:40:38 -0500
Subject: How to crash Python in 1 easy step (python 2.2.2)
In-Reply-To: <2e363c08.0307130944.4c470bc3@posting.google.com>
References: <2e363c08.0307130944.4c470bc3@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20030713204037.GE32319@unpythonic.net>

On Sun, Jul 13, 2003 at 10:44:41AM -0700, Paul Miller wrote:
> I'm not sure if this is a python bug or a bug in an associated
> library, and I'm not even sure how to correctly report it, but here is

Doesn't happen here.  What terminal (xterm, kterm, gnome-terminal,
console?) and what LANG is set in your environment?

If you run 'od -c' at the shell, then hit ctrl-shift-enter then ctrl-d,
what does it show?  I'd expect to see something very much like this:
	$ od -c

	0000000  \n
	0000001
that is, even with the modifier keys, the program only sees a normal
newline character.

What happens if you type ctrl-shift-enter to another readline-linked
program (for instance 'bc', an infix calculator)?  Do you get the same
crash?

Does the behavior change if you run 'cat | python' and then press
ctrl-shift-enter?  This will avoid importing readline (and another
side-effect is to suppress the normal ">>>" prompt of the interative
interpreter)

Jeff




From giles_brown at hotmail.com  Sat Jul  5 14:41:27 2003
From: giles_brown at hotmail.com (Giles Brown)
Date: 5 Jul 2003 11:41:27 -0700
Subject: Question about "exec in globals, locals"
References: <57de9986.0307040041.553ff329@posting.google.com> <mailman.1057316108.30364.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <57de9986.0307051041.1292a0ec@posting.google.com>

Adrien Di Mascio <Adrien.DiMascio at logilab.fr> wrote in message news:<mailman.1057316108.30364.python-list at python.org>...
> Hi,
> > source = """
> > class FirstClass:
> >     pass
> > class SecondClass:
> >     References = [FirstClass]
> > """
> 
> 
> When you specify both locals() and globals(), here's what happen :
> 
> """
> class FirstClass:
>     pass
> 
> ## ---------> Here, your locals() dict have been updated, but not your
> ## globals() one.
> ## But, here, you can do : References = [FirstClass] since your
> ## locals()
> ## know about 'FirstClass'
> 
> class SecondClass:
>     ## ---------> Here, your locals() dict is a new one since you've
>     just
>     ## entered a new scope. So, 'FirstClass' is neither defined in
>     ## 'locals()' nor in 'globals()', that's why you have your
>     NameError
> """
> 
> I'm not quite sure of my explanation, but that could explain your
> problem. Sorry if I've made any Python mistake.
Hmmm.  You might be right, but wouldn't you expect the scope of SecondClass to
be nested within the scope of the passed in locals()?

I find this quite confusing, which unusual for a Python ;-)

Thanks,
Giles Brown



From evan at 4-am.com  Wed Jul 16 15:40:01 2003
From: evan at 4-am.com (Evan Simpson)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 14:40:01 -0500
Subject: Replacing rexec
In-Reply-To: <1058378060.5034.13.camel@redwall.ofsloans.com>
References: <1058378060.5034.13.camel@redwall.ofsloans.com>
Message-ID: <3F15AA11.1000705@4-am.com>

Tim Gerla wrote:
> Given a bit more assurance that a replacement would be useful and
> possible, we potentially have the resources to do so. Having a working
> and trusted plpython is valuable to both my own organization and, IMHO,
> the Python world itself.

Zope has a trusted Python implementation based on Python 2.2+'s compiler 
package.  It would need to be substantially adapted for use in plpython, 
but it could be done.  Among other things, it controls imports and 
builtins, forbids the use of exec and eval, redirects print statements, 
and prevents access to names starting with '_'.

Cheers,

Evan @ 4-am






From FBatista at uniFON.com.ar  Mon Jul 28 09:52:31 2003
From: FBatista at uniFON.com.ar (Batista, Facundo)
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 10:52:31 -0300
Subject: Standard behaviour of a getSomething method
Message-ID: <A128D751272CD411BC9200508BC2194D03382C53@escpl.tcp.com.ar>

#- >> Considering that this attribute is always another object 
#- (everything
#- >> is an object in Python), what should getMyAttrib do?
#- >>
#- >> 1) Return the object
#- >> 2) Return a copy of the object
#- 
#- Because returning a copy is seldom needed, I prefer returning the
#- object itself. If it's an immutable object, the difference doesn't
#- matter, anyway. If it's a mutable object, you should note the access
#- semantics in the docstring, as someone else pointed out.

Here it's the very point. I don't want to anybody to access the class
attribute from outside.

Beyond the get/set interface mechanism, if I return the object (a mutable
one), this object can be modified from outside. Shouldn't I return a copy of
the object in this case?

Thanks.

.	Facundo




From sybrenUSE at YOURthirdtower.imagination.com  Tue Jul 15 07:10:53 2003
From: sybrenUSE at YOURthirdtower.imagination.com (Sybren Stuvel)
Date: 15 Jul 2003 11:10:53 GMT
Subject: FCNTL module deprecation warning
References: <mailman.1058257476.15118.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrnbh7o9t.61k.sybrenUSE@sybren.thirdtower.com>

Meyer, Tony enlightened us with:
> C:\Program Files\Python23\lib\fcntl.py:7: DeprecationWarning: the
> FCNTL module is deprecated; please use fcntl

Seems you're using windoze.

> It seems to be saying that I shouldn't use "import FCNTL" (which gives
> the same warning), but "import fcntl", but that's what I _am_ doing.

Windoze has a case insensitive filesystem, and thus it can't see the
difference between FCNTL and fcntl. Try removing the depricated FCNTL
from your harddisk, or rename it to FCNTL-dep.py.

Sybren
-- 
The problem with the world is stupidity. Not saying there should be a
capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the
safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself? 



From richiez_1 at yahoo.com  Fri Jul 25 01:43:13 2003
From: richiez_1 at yahoo.com (BrianZ)
Date: 24 Jul 2003 22:43:13 -0700
Subject: Problem with pyOpenSSL and Python2.3c
References: <bfpf3g$8il$1@skates.gsfc.nasa.gov>
Message-ID: <cb766d47.0307242143.311b38c9@posting.google.com>

"Stephen C. Waterbury" <Stephen.C.Waterbury at nasa.gov> wrote in message news:<bfpf3g$8il$1 at skates.gsfc.nasa.gov>...
> I'm trying to get pyOpenSSL to work with Python 2.3c on
> Red Hat 9, but there seems to be a Python C API incompatibility.
> I assume this just means that a new version of pyOpenSSL is
> needed for Python 2.3 -- is that correct?
> 
> - Steve.

Do you need pyOpenSSL specifically?  If you're just trying to get SSL
support the Python 2.3 socket module has it built in.



From dhostetler at sopris.net  Mon Jul 14 14:33:33 2003
From: dhostetler at sopris.net (.d.hos)
Date: 14 Jul 2003 11:33:33 -0700
Subject: parsing flat file to mssql (odbc)
References: <8db020b9.0307081101.23325bd@posting.google.com> <mailman.1057694113.32263.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <8db020b9.0307140644.6d7a8beb@posting.google.com>

> 
> Strange error message you have there...
> 
> Have you tried using mxODBC at this ? I'd bet you get much better
> results.
> 
> -- 
> Marc-Andre Lemburg
> eGenix.com


Mark,
thanks for your suggestion, it seems to be working w/ mxODBC.



From skodela at lithium.com  Wed Jul 30 18:28:02 2003
From: skodela at lithium.com (sreekant)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 22:28:02 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: reading in lines from a file  -FAST!
In-Reply-To: <pan.2003.07.30.15.02.20.359182.15518@presidency.com>
References: <pan.2003.07.30.15.02.20.359182.15518@presidency.com>
Message-ID: <bg9gpi$kdo$1@titan.btinternet.com>

Why not use

s=openfile.read()
s=string.split(s,'\n')

just a thought
sree




From skip at pobox.com  Sun Jul 27 11:48:15 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 10:48:15 -0500
Subject: emacs python-mode questions: C-c C-c and broken docstring fill
In-Reply-To: <87ptjwre0x.fsf@pobox.com>
References: <87ptjwre0x.fsf@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <16163.62527.778966.448916@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    John> 1. Why do I get this in my minibuffer when I do C-c C-c in a
    John> python-mode buffer containing the following valid Python code?

    John> Wrong type argument: sequencep, cpython

It looks like a bug in py-execute-region.  It sets the shell variable like
so:

        (setq shell (or (py-choose-shell-by-shebang)
                        (py-choose-shell-by-import)
                        py-which-shell))))

which gives it the value (quote cpython).  Later on it tries to concatenate
it:

      (let ((cmd (concat shell (if (string-equal py-which-bufname "JPython")
                                   " -" ""))))

which fails because shell is not a string (strictly speaking, a sequence) at
that point.  I'm not sure what the correct fix is.

    John> 2. A while ago I 'upgraded' to a version of python-mode (from
    John> somewhere on sourceforge, I think -- perhaps Python CVS, don't
    John> remember) which somebody here claimed was able to fill comments
    John> without needing blank lines before and after the comment.  It does
    John> do that, but the new version also breaks filling text in
    John> docstrings (under particular circumstances which I haven't figured
    John> out, but which occurs very frequently).  I get something like:
    John> "The parameter start is not the beginning of a python string".
    John> Where does the latest python-mode live, and is this fill bug with
    John> docstrings fixed?

Can you file a bug report with a small failing example?  Assign it to me
(montanaro).

Skip





From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Wed Jul  2 15:16:57 2003
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 14:16:57 -0500
Subject: getting a submatrix of all true
Message-ID: <m2u1a4d9hy.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

I have a largish data set (1000 observations x 100 floating point
variables), and some of the of the data are missing.  I want to try a
variety of clustering, neural network, etc, algorithms on the data,
and to keep life simple I want to reduce the dimensions of the matrix
so that I have no missing values, since not all the algorithms are
able to handle them and there is sufficient redundancy in the
variables that I can afford to lose some.

I am currently using a hack that works, but it makes me wonder if
there is an optimal solution.  I define optimal as the removal of rows
and columns such that there are no missing values and
max(numRows*numCols).

My current approach is to drop rows (observations) that have more than
some prespecified number of missing variables, and then drop the
columns (variables) of the reduced data set that have any missing
values.  I chose the threshold for dropping a row by eyeballing the
distribution of number of missing variables per observation, pick a
number on the low end of the distribution, and dropping the rows that
exceed the threshold.

Another way of formulating the question: for a sparse boolean matrix
(sparse on True), what is the optimal way to remove rows and columns
so that the total number of elements in the matrix is maximal and
there are no True values left.


Example:
   
  0 0 0 
  0 0 0 candidate sub matrix has 12 elements
  0 0 0       
  0 0 0 

1 0 0 0 1
0 0 0 0 0    0 0 0 0 0    
0 0 0 0 0    0 0 0 0 0  candidate submatrix has 15 elements
0 0 0 0 0    0 0 0 0 0 
0 0 1 0 0   

      0 0
      0 0 candidate submatrix has 8 elements
      0 0 
      0 0 

I want to programatically extract the 15 element matrix

Following the approach described above, I get the desired answer in
the example below, though this is a hack solution and I have the
feeling there is a better one.

    from Numeric import nonzero, array, take, sum

    X = array([[1, 0, 0, 0, 1],
               [0, 0, 0, 0, 0],
               [0, 0, 0, 0, 0],
               [0, 0, 0, 0, 0],
               [0, 0, 1, 0, 0]])

    goodObsInd = nonzero(sum(X,1)<2)  # observations with < 2 missing variables
    X = take(X, goodObsInd)           # drop the bad

    goodVarInd = nonzero(sum(X)==0)   # variables with no missing data
    X = take(X, goodVarInd, 1 )       # drop the bad variables

    print X


John Hunter




From bokr at oz.net  Thu Jul 17 16:05:28 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 17 Jul 2003 20:05:28 GMT
Subject: Problems retrieving items from a list using a reference rather than an integer - can you help?
References: <3f15ca92@shknews01> <3f16bb84@shknews01>
Message-ID: <bf6vi8$g6k$0@216.39.172.122>

On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 16:05:15 +0100, "Rogue9" <lol at lolmc.com> wrote:

>After reviewing my question I realised that I should have posted the short
>piece of real code I'm working on and not tried to write some pseudo-code
>to illustrate the problem I'm having.Therefore I have printed the listing
>below which is quite short and hopefully won't annoy too many peopleabout
>the length of my post.
>

>To reiterate:
>The masterList holds the results for the UK lottery in the form
>[[1,'1994-10-19',3,14,16,23,34,43,2,3,'ARTHUR',234]...] and there are 792
>results in the list. The skipFreqList holds the count of skipped draws
>between when a certain ball was drawn i.e if ball one was drawn in draw
>one and then not again till draw 10 the list would look like this
>[['Ball1',0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,0......],['Ball2,1,2,0,1,2,3,4,5,0,0]....['Ball49',1,0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8]].Each
>item in the skipFreqList will be 1 item longer than the masterList length
>as each one starts with a string descriptor.
I don't understand what skipFreqList really is. Do the zeroes signify that the ball was picked
as the first ball in that draw and numbers n mean it was drawn in that draw
as the (n+1)th ball? (if so why have a 9, since 8 is all the balls taken for a given draw?)
IMO a more straight-forward encoding of that info would be just the pick order of the
ball for a given draw: 1-8 for picked first-last, and zero for not picked at all.
If you use 0-7 for pick order and call it skips, and then have 8 mean skip altogether,
that might be what's happening? But then your 9 is a typo ;-)

If that's it, you'd expect to get zero about 1 in 8, but not always.

Why not just load the data interactively by typing
(or maybe you can just copy this and run it as something.py for starters
to see what we get (untested! but you should be able to fix it ;-)

====< something.py >===========================================
import cPickle
f=open('/home/lol/disk/python/lotto/dat/masterList.lb','r')
masterList = cPickle.load(f)
f.close()
f=open('/home/lol/disk/python/lotto/dat/skipFreqList.lb','r')
skipFreqList = cPickle.load(f)
f.close()

#and then interactively looking at the data step by step the way you
#think the program should be looking at it.

#You can also make little interactive loops to show specific items from all the draws,
#e.g., (untested!)

def getSkip(draw, pick): # ok, index draw from 1, and picks also 1-8
    drawresult = masterList[draw-1] # draw starts with 0 from xrange
    ball = drawresult[pick+1] # picked ball
    skip = skipFreqList[ball-1][draw] # past ball name
    return (ball, skip)  # since we are talking about the first ball here, the skip is always 0?

print 'pick #1'
for draw in xrange(1,20):  # or xrange(1,len(masterList)+1): for the whole thing
    print getSkip(draw, 1), # first ball pick in any draw should get skip of 0, right??
print 

# now try second pick
print 'pick #2'
for draw in xrange(1,20):  # or xrange(1,len(masterList)+1): for the whole thing
    print getSkip(draw, 2), # 2nd ball pick in any draw should get skip of 1, right??
print 

#Or what does skipFreqList mean?
# ===================================================================

HTH

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From tylere at hotpop.com  Wed Jul  2 22:13:32 2003
From: tylere at hotpop.com (Tyler Eaves)
Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 22:13:32 -0400
Subject: anything like a "pointer" in python?
References: <mailman.1057196945.31315.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2003.07.03.02.13.31.86793@hotpop.com>

On Thu, 03 Jul 2003 09:41:05 +0800, stevenswan wrote:

> I want to open a file in python and read something and process the file in c++ moduel, but there is no "pointer" in python,
> so how can I pass the arg(file buffer) between python and c++ modules?
> 
> 
> ______________________________________
> 
> ===================================================================

Is there any reason you just can't give the C module the filename and let
it handle the fopen?



From gh at ghaering.de  Fri Jul 11 20:23:32 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 02:23:32 +0200
Subject: The "intellectual property" misnomer
In-Reply-To: <slrnbguf7g.q1.bignose-hates-spam@rose.localdomain.fake>
References: <mailman.1057951098.31738.python-list@python.org>
	<slrnbguf7g.q1.bignose-hates-spam@rose.localdomain.fake>
Message-ID: <3F0F5504.5080700@ghaering.de>

Ben Finney wrote:
> On Fri, 11 Jul 2003 15:13:43 -0400, Guido van Rossum wrote:
> 
>>The PSF holds the intellectual property rights for Python
> 
> 
> Ugh.  Please don't propagate this ridiculous, meaningless term.  It's
> used to refer to a wide range of greatly disparate legal concepts; to
> use it as a single term implies that there's some unifying "intellectual
> property" principle joining them together, which is a falsehood.
> 
> If the PSF holds the copyright to Python, please say that.
> 
> If the PSF holds patents which cover Python, please say that.
> 
> If the PSF owns the trademark for Python, please say that.
> 
> If the PSF has trade secrets in Python, please say that.
> 
> But please *don't* muddy the water by saying the PSF holds "the
> intellectual property rights" for Python.  That says nothing useful --
> it doesn't help determine which of the above fields of law are
> applicable -- and only promotes the idea that all these different fields
> of law are part of a whole, which they are definitely not.
> 
> It also encourages another falsehood: that of considering intellectual
> objects as property.  This is something which many people who use Python
> would disagree with strongly.
> 
>     <http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/words-to-avoid.html#IntellectualProperty>

Well said.

-- Gerhard




From paulpaterson at users.sourceforge.net  Fri Jul 25 12:10:09 2003
From: paulpaterson at users.sourceforge.net (Paul Paterson)
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 16:10:09 GMT
Subject: How safe is modifying locals()?
Message-ID: <BDcUa.100193$XV.6037947@twister.austin.rr.com>

I am trying to find a way to mimic by-reference argument passing for 
immutables in Python. I need to do this because I am writing an 
automated VB to Python converter.

Here's an example of the VB code:

Sub Change(ByVal x, ByRef y)
x = x+1
y = y+1
End Sub

x = 0: y = 0
Change x, y
' Now x should be 0 and y should be 1

One approach that has been suggested is to use locals() and indirect 
references to the immutable via the resulting dictionary,

def change(x, y, refs):
   x = x + 1
   refs[y] = refs[y] + 1

x = 0; y = 0;
change(x, 'y', locals())

The Python documentation gives a warning that modifying the contents of 
locals() may not affect local values. Despite the warning, the code 
seems to work as desired, at least on Python 2.2.

Does anyone know how safe this approach is, particularly in a 
multithreaded environment? Will this work on Jython?

Does anyone have any alternative strategies for trying to achieve the 
objective? A "Pythonic" approach such as,

def change(x, y):
    x = x + 1
    y = y + 1
    return y

x = 0; y = 0
y = change(x, y)

Works in a single threaded environment but, because the value of 'y' 
changes at the wrong time, with multiple threads there is a possibility 
that two users of 'y' could dissagree on its value.

Paul


Paul Paterson
(paulpaterson at users.sourceforge.net)

vb2py :: A Visual Basic to Python Conversion Toolkit
http://vb2py.sourceforge.net




From intentionally at blank.co.uk  Wed Jul 16 17:38:30 2003
From: intentionally at blank.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 22:38:30 +0100
Subject: anything like C++ references?
References: <1058377188.3f158de4a3a51@mcherm.com> <mailman.1058377947.32563.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <47gbhvg0i58nkkph3k6a7bpikaabgm4b47@4ax.com>

On 16 Jul 2003 17:51:20 -0000, Moshe Zadka <m at moshez.org> wrote:

>On Wed, 16 Jul 2003, Michael Chermside <mcherm at mcherm.com> wrote:
>
>>     stuff[i] = newComplexObject(i++, "name", "fred")
>
>I'm not entirely sure that C code is not undefined. I think it
>is, but it could be that I'm mistaken and that "=" is a "sequence point".
>It's a variant on the old
>
>a[i]=i++ 

I think you're right. The old 'when does the postincrement happen'
issue. I missed that on the first read - though admittedly not a real
debugging-mode read - but it still shows that it doesn't stand out as
obvious when you need to find the problem.

But - though I'm not sure - I think it might not be an issue in C++
rather than C. With user defined objects and stuff, the postincrement
is done immediately when the 'i++' is evaluated - a result of using a
member function to implement it. The behaviour of integers and
pointers may have been redefined to fit the same pattern. But don't
quote me on it, and certainly don't depend on it - it's an obvious
thing for many compilers to have an optimisation option for, perhaps
buried in a badly defined strict-or-optimised option.

It's going to bug me now, though.

I tend to dislike expression side effects in part because these little
mistakes are so easy. In this case...

  stuff[i] = newComplexObject(i, "name", "fred"); ++i;
  ...

...is no problem (or Adams 'len' solution, of course).




From andy47 at halfcooked.com  Thu Jul  3 05:31:05 2003
From: andy47 at halfcooked.com (Andy Todd)
Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 10:31:05 +0100
Subject: Remote db connections possible with DCOracle2?
In-Reply-To: <16131.24584.242446.711276@montanaro.dyndns.org>
References: <16131.19186.190625.679324@montanaro.dyndns.org>        <200307021518.22410.dave@pythonapocrypha.com> <16131.24584.242446.711276@montanaro.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <be0t4e$ov$1@main.gmane.org>

Skip Montanaro wrote:
>     Dave> Use this style of connection string (all one line if it wraps):
> 
>     Dave> user/password@(description=(address=(host=10.20.30.40)(protocol=tcp)(port=1521))(connect_data=(sid=dbsid)))
> 
> Thanks.  The example or two I saw indicated something like
> 
>     user/password at dbname
> 
> where I presume "dbname" is looked up in tnsnames.ora.
> 
> Skip
> 

The 'correct' way to connect to an Oracle database is, as you say, 
through a service name that you have configured and which is stored in 
the local tnsnames.ora file.

In later versions of Oracle (8.1 and above) it is strongly recommended 
that you configure your connectivity through the supplied tools (Net8 
Assistant or Oracle Net Manager).

Editing tnsnames.ora files by hand is somewhat frowned upon. Having said 
that the format and syntax hasn't changed (much) since the days of 
SQL*Net so if you know what you are doing it isn't too scary.

Practically, if you can connect to a database from SQL*Plus then 
DCOracle2 won't have a problem either.

Regards,
Andy
-- 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 From the desk of Andrew J Todd esq - http://www.halfcooked.com/






From bokr at oz.net  Wed Jul 23 05:14:29 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 23 Jul 2003 09:14:29 GMT
Subject: feature request: a better str.endswith
References: <2259b0e2.0307180401.5dae02f2@posting.google.com> <mailman.1058530829.7072.python-list@python.org> <3f17f883$0$49107$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl> <2259b0e2.0307190529.57338b3f@posting.google.com> <NpkSa.16049$7O.14695@nwrdny01.gnilink.net> <2259b0e2.0307200721.16ef2ea1@posting.google.com> <45228044.0307210522.1ef95144@posting.google.com> <2259b0e2.0307210918.614892ba@posting.google.com> <bfi4ir$t21$0@216.39.172.122> <Xns93C060AFACE6Cduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1> <bfjokm$kbc$0@216.39.172.122> <Xns93C15C495A774duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <bfljll$khg$0@216.39.172.122>

On Wed, 23 Jul 2003 08:06:17 +0000 (UTC), Duncan Booth <duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk> wrote:

>bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) wrote in news:bfjokm$kbc$0 at 216.39.172.122:
>
>>>'all_false(...)' is simply 'not any_true(...)'
>>>'any_false(...)' is 'not all_true(...)'
>>>
>>>So you could get by with just two of these functions, in which case 
>>>'any_of', and 'all_of' might be suitable names.
>>>
>> I don't think they're equivalent if they do short-circuiting.
>> 
>
>any_true short circuits as soon as it finds one that is true.
>all_false short circuits as soon as it find one that is true.
>
>all_true short circuits as soon as it finds on that is false.
>any_false ditto.
>
>Why aren't they equivalent?
>
Oops, d'oh ... well, they're not spelled the same ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Wed Jul 30 15:52:59 2003
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 15:52:59 -0400
Subject: Upgrading python
References: <ItycnZqbMc9St7qiXTWc-w@speakeasy.net> <m33cgohbf9.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <bg93pm$72v$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <vig8hj4a05pbfa@news.supernews.com>

"Bengt Richter" <bokr at oz.net> wrote in message
news:bg93pm$72v$0 at 216.39.172.122...
> On 30 Jul 2003 06:43:22 +0200, martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v.
=?iso-8859-15?q?L=F6wis?=) wrote:
>
> >Stephen Boulet <stephen at theboulets.net> writes:
> >
> >> When I upgrade from 2.2.3 to 2.3 on windows, do I first uninstall
2.2.3?
> >
> >If you want to, you can have both 2.2 and 2.3 installed, side-by-side.
> >If you want to replace 2.2, you should uninstall it first.
> >
> How do I know what will happen to file extension associations and the
system path search
> that takes unadorned python and finds some/path/to/python23.exe?
>
> And how does the old python22 find what it needs? Do I need to go through
a .cmd file that
> sets up its environment before running? How do I know everything it needs?
>
> IOW, how do you set up a clean way to run both 2.2.3 and 2.3 "side by
side" but separately,
> with default "python" going to 2.3?  I am being lazy in not reading the
install docs yet,
> but does it cover the question fully? If so, the answer to this post can
just be "yes" ;-)

As with most things having to do with installation, the answer is a bit
complicated. On Windows, Python keeps its information in separate
keys by major release, so there's a different key for Python 2.2 and Python
2.3. That's compiled into the executable, so anything that's in the registry
is kept nice and separate. So you can have two or more major releases
side by side. You can't have two minor releases, though, because they
use the same registry key.

The keys aren't secret, so any outboard programs that need a specific
version of Python can go right to it. Where the difficulty lies is that
other things, such as the system path for finding executables and the
file name associations don't have the same facility. So if I wanted to
just be able to doubleclick on a .py or .pyc file and have it find the
correct executable, I'm out of luck unless I do some arcane system
programming. (That is, associate them with a program that figures
out from the directories or the "magic number" which version of
python is wanted, and then invokes it.)

If all you want is for the default to be 2.3, then just make certain
that the system path goes to the proper directory. All your
file name associations will tag along as long as the command
keys didn't include full paths.

And I find that .cmd files are my friends. I use them to set the
Pythonpath so I don't have to figure out a path that's going to
work for everything, now and forever. And they work very
well for drag and drop targets for those little utilities that operate
on one file...

John Roth

>
> Regards,
> Bengt Richter





From david at fielden.com.au  Wed Jul  9 03:54:52 2003
From: david at fielden.com.au (DG)
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 17:54:52 +1000
Subject: Deleting specific characters from a string
In-Reply-To: <begfb3$7j6$1@online.de>
Message-ID: <007801c345ef$62137b10$9501a8c0@borg.fielden.com.au>

>>> import string
>>> str = 'You are ben at orange?enter&your&code'
>>> print string.replace(string.replace(str, '@', ''), '&', '')
You are benorange?enteryourcode
>>>

Rowdy


> -----Original Message-----
> From: python-list-admin at python.org
> [mailto:python-list-admin at python.org]On Behalf Of Behrang Dadsetan
> Sent: Wednesday, 9 July 2003 5:12 PM
> To: python-list at python.org
> Subject: Deleting specific characters from a string
> 
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> I would like deleting specific characters from a string.
> As an example, I would like to delete all of the '@' '&' in 
> the string 
> 'You are ben at orange?enter&your&code' so that it becomes 
> 'benorange?enteryourcode'.
> 
> So far I have been doing it like:
> str = 'You are ben at orange?enter&your&code'
> str = ''.join([ c for c in str if c not in ('@', '&')])
> 
> but that looks so ugly.. I am hoping to see nicer examples to acheive 
> the above..
> 
> Thanks.
> Ben.
> 
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 




From martin at v.loewis.de  Thu Jul 17 18:33:38 2003
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 00:33:38 +0200
Subject: A challenge to the ASCII proponents.
References: <mailman.1058278343.23104.python-list@python.org> <bf167a$pvt$1@panix2.panix.com> <ufzl7rdno.fsf@online.no> <3F142A58.80426AA4@hotmail.com> <2259b0e2.0307161620.4a9353f1@posting.google.com> <Xns93BB246FDDBCFJanC@213.118.75.80> <3F168011.3AEB3EFC@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <3F172442.2040907@v.loewis.de>

Alan Kennedy wrote:
> For anybody who has MS Internet Explorer 5+, Netscape 6+, Mozilla 1+,
> i.e. any browser that supports XML, simply save this to a disk file
> and open it in your chosen browser.
[...]

> So, the challenge to the ASCII proponents is: put the greek word
> "gignooskoo" on everybody's screen, originating from a usenet message,
> in the original greek, where "oo" -> greek letter omega.
[...]
> I expect you won't find it as simple as the XML above, although I'm
> also completely prepared to be proven wrong (Alan tries to cover his
> a** in advance ;-).

So what do you think about this message?:

????????

Look Ma, no markup. And not every character uses two bytes, either.
And I can use Umlauts (???) and Arabic (???.????) if I want to.

I don't know for whom this renders well, but I guess MSIE5+, NS6+
and Mozilla 1+ are good candidates - without the need for saving
things into files.

Regards,
Martin




From jcazier at decode.is  Wed Jul 23 07:33:55 2003
From: jcazier at decode.is (jean-Baptiste Cazier)
Date: 23 Jul 2003 04:33:55 -0700
Subject: Transparency with PIL and paste ?
Message-ID: <ad50964e.0307230333.3391c945@posting.google.com>

S?l !

I am trying to rotate some text and paste it into a larger PIL Image.
( cannot use PyFT for some reasons)
However I have a problem of transparency and my new images in a box
shape are overlapping eventhough the test itself does not overlap.
I would like to avoid that problem using the transparency of the image
but without much success so far

Below is my code for Python2

Any help would be appreciated

Thanks

Jean-Baptiste


#!/usr/bin/python

import sys,math
sys.path.append("/home/stat/Pygtk/PIL/")
sys.path.append("/home/stat/Pygtk")

import  Image,ImageDraw,ImageFont


def rotat(text,angle=70):
  """ Rotation routine 
         returns the image and its size """

  color=(220,120,010)
  pangle=float(angle)*math.pi/180.0
  [x,y]=my_font.getsize(text)
  xy=x+y
  timage=Image.new("RGBA", (2*xy,2*xy),(255,255,255,0))
  draw=ImageDraw.Draw(timage)
  draw.text((xy, xy-y), text,font=my_font,fill=color)
  timage2=timage.rotate(angle)
  X0=int(xy-math.sin(pangle)*y)
  Y0=int(xy-x*math.sin(pangle)-y*math.cos(pangle))
  X1=int(xy+math.cos(pangle)*x)
  Y1=int(xy)
  t3=timage2.crop((X0,Y0,X1,Y1))

  return t3,X1-X0,Y1-Y0

my_font=ImageFont.load('/home/stat/Pygtk/PIL/Fonts/helvR12-ISO8859-1.pil')

#Create 2 new images
im,x_im,y_im=rotat("Mest the Test with M",45)
im2,x_im2,y_im2=rotat("new Test with T",20)

# Create an empy image
empty_image=Image.new("RGB", (500,300) ,(155,255,255))
empty_draw=ImageDraw.Draw(empty_image)
xs=0
xs2=xs+30
ys=0

# Paste new images
empty_image.paste(im,(xs,ys,xs+x_im,ys+y_im))
empty_image.paste(im2,(xs2,ys,xs2+x_im2,ys+y_im2))
empty_image.show()



From http  Wed Jul  9 18:24:40 2003
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 09 Jul 2003 15:24:40 -0700
Subject: Sample Web application (Re: Python vs PHP)
References: <mailman.1057574470.1750.python-list@python.org> <kmolgv4mp12o71ocion7ra0m2s9fcrqjdk@4ax.com> <begc78$rui$1@mawar.singnet.com.sg> <VLicnfImRJLPkpGiRTvUqA@speakeasy.net>
Message-ID: <7xhe5vmj87.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

"A.M. Kuchling" <amk at amk.ca> writes:
> The Java Pet Store was suggested, but it was pointed out that it's a very
> large application, requiring too much effort for an author to do in their
> spare time.  

Heh, the point of doing it in Python is it should take much less time
than doing it in Java :).

>       * Should be implementable in a few evenings

Good

>       * Should exercise a reasonable set of features.
>       	* HTML generation (duh!)
> 	* Accepting a form

Accepting a very long form (i.e. megabytes of POST data)

> 	* Returning non-HTML files (generating a GIF, say)
>       	* Sessions
> 	* Uploading a file
> 	* RDBMS access?  (That's more a function of the DB-API module you're 
> 	  using, but a framework might provide support for pooling 
> 	  connections or something similar.)

Yes, this should be included, lack of a standard DB API module is a
serious Python deficiency and any DB-using app needs to work around
the deficiency somehow.

> 	* Other suggestions?
> 	
> Possibilities:
> * A Wiki?
> * A multiple-user weblog?
> * A Slashdot-like discussion board?
> * A simple content manager -- upload files, set permissions on them,
>   control access to them, and download them again.
> * A simple browse-a-catalog-and-buy-things store?
> * Other suggestions?

Webmail client



From bhahn at spam-spam.g0-away.com  Tue Jul 15 16:15:28 2003
From: bhahn at spam-spam.g0-away.com (Brendan Hahn)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 20:15:28 GMT
Subject: [OT] sentances with two meanings
References: <37d6f77c.0307130932.1e3adf0d@posting.google.com> <3f11ac74$0$49101$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl> <ad052e5c.0307131718.4903430d@posting.google.com> <3F12808B.E53193B8@hotmail.com> <87brvw3ula.fsf@pobox.com> <4701fb.8co.ln@195.171.216.1> <Xns93B99C8B951A6duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <bhahn-ya02408000R1507031248170001@news.corp.hp.com>

duncan at rcp.co.uk wrote:
>"Colin S. Miller" <colinsm.spam-me-not at picsel.com> wrote:
>To "take someone in" means to trick or deceive them.

"take in" can also mean to observe.

-- 
brendan DOT hahn AT hp DOT com



From hans at deragon.biz  Sat Jul 19 22:45:52 2003
From: hans at deragon.biz (Hans Deragon)
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 22:45:52 -0400
Subject: How to detect user activity - for a screensaver for example.
Message-ID: <bnnSa.43074$124.1021717@wagner.videotron.net>

Greetings.


   If I want to write a screensaver for Linux using Python, how can I detect 
that the user has not touched the keyboard or mouse for the last 5 mins?


Sincerely,
Hans Deragon
-- 
Deragon Informatique inc.         Open source:
http://www.deragon.biz            http://swtmvcwrapper.sourceforge.net
mailto://hans at deragon.biz         http://autopoweroff.sourceforge.net




From alanmk at hotmail.com  Thu Jul 17 06:28:29 2003
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 11:28:29 +0100
Subject: Jython classpath question
References: <pan.2003.07.17.02.29.12.502474@removme.bom.gov.au>
Message-ID: <3F167A4D.CCF59244@hotmail.com>

Tennessee James Leeuwenburg wrote:

> Is it
> correct that Jython can only access Java classes which are inside JAR
> archives in the JYTHON_HOME directory? 

No.

Here is an example of accessing java classes in a jar that is at some
non-jython location.

#-- Commands should be same for all platforms, 'cept maybe
'copy'->'cp'
C:\>cd temp
C:\temp>mkdir classpathtest
C:\temp>cd classpathtest
C:\temp\classpathtest>copy C:\jars\oro206\oro206.jar .
        1 file(s) copied.
C:\temp\classpathtest>set CLASSPATH=./oro206.jar;
C:\temp\classpathtest>jython
*sys-package-mgr*: processing new jar,
'C:\temp\classpathtest\oro206.jar'
Jython 2.1 on java1.4.2 (JIT: null)
Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import org.apache.oro as oro
>>> dir (oro)
['__name__', 'io', 'text', 'util']
>>>

And here is an example of compiling a java class in the local
directory, and using it from within jython.

#--- file SayHi.java starts here
public class SayHi
    {
    public SayHi()
        {
        System.out.println("Hello World!");
        }
    }
#--- file SayHi.java ends here

Save the above into SayHi.java, then compile it

C:\temp\classpathtest>javac SayHi.java
C:\temp\classpathtest>echo %CLASSPATH%
./oro206.jar;
C:\temp\classpathtest>jython
Jython 2.1 on java1.4.2 (JIT: null)
Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import SayHi
>>> newobj = SayHi()
Hello World!
>>>


> I have a working directory where all my code lives, and because my app is
> under rapid development, I would prefer to avoid creating a JAR file
> every time I want to do some Python scripting?

Examples above should show you the way.

HTH,

-- 
alan kennedy
-----------------------------------------------------
check http headers here: http://xhaus.com/headers
email alan:              http://xhaus.com/mailto/alan



From tomas at fancy.org  Mon Jul  7 21:59:06 2003
From: tomas at fancy.org (Tom Plunket)
Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 18:59:06 -0700
Subject: looking for UDP package, network programming guidance
References: <uj8jgvsrbop1lhem5t743gv9pvuh7ig6l1@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <r69kgvcdf7r2sn4rd9sg92ulbhma5le71t@4ax.com>

Tom Plunket wrote:

> ...now the stumbling block comes up that Python doesn't seem to 
> have any UDP handling built into its distribution.


Thanks a lot for the pointers, gang.  Hopefully I can get
something up and running in the next couple of days (or rather,
the next time I have a couple of uninterrupted hours for this
task), so these pointers will send me in the right direction.

I definitely like the idea of a lower level solution, so this is
nice.  For whatever reason, my web search turned up info related
only to win32all, so I assumed...  :)

Anyway, off to get this going.  :)


-tom!



From paddy3118 at netscape.netNOTthisBIT  Sun Jul  6 09:12:17 2003
From: paddy3118 at netscape.netNOTthisBIT (Donald 'Paddy' McCarthy)
Date: Sun, 06 Jul 2003 14:12:17 +0100
Subject: Collective memory
In-Reply-To: <hff5eb.e9h.ln@escape.shannon.net>
References: <mailman.1057083728.8224.python-list@python.org> <vg88va53uha8e@corp.supernews.com> <hff5eb.e9h.ln@escape.shannon.net>
Message-ID: <3F082031.3010503@netscape.netNOTthisBIT>

Charles Shannon Hendrix wrote:


> The problem with Python is that its use of indentation is not the same
> as COBOL or FORTRAN.  Apples and Oranges.
>
> Python uses it for actually determining the logic in your program, which
> IMHO is dangerous.
> 
>     if <something>
>         <work>
>         <more work>
>         <add numbers>
> 
> Is <add numbers> part of the if statement, or did someone with different
> tab settings from the author make a mistake and align it accidentally?
Well, no matter WHAT the language, I find tabs are evil little things 
that introduce special cases and the need for code to handle them.
That said though, I find python block structure (sans tabs), just fine 
thanks.
It would be nice if tabs as indentation for Python was deprecated but 
failing that, If you don't use tabs, its wonderful.

If you do try python, try not to indent with tabs, and please try it, I 
did and look at me now :-)

Cheers, Pad.




From writeson at earthlink.net  Tue Jul  8 13:25:38 2003
From: writeson at earthlink.net (Doug Farrell)
Date: 8 Jul 2003 10:25:38 -0700
Subject: re module substitution confusion
References: <88bc63c6.0307071326.3eb60848@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <88bc63c6.0307080925.4352ca63@posting.google.com>

Hi all,

I got a direct email from someone (who I can't remember right now) who
suggested that I wasn't very clear about what I was trying to do and
what was wrong. In an attempt to clarify I'm adding this post. :)

I'm trying to create a little Python CGI program that will read in a
HTML template file that has Python code embedded in it between
<python> ... </python> tags. So I'd like to use the re module to find
the following pattern:

pattern = re.compile("(<python>)(.*?)(</python>)", re.DOTALL)

Doing a search with this pattern like this:

match = re.search(pattern, text)

where text equals the HTML template file in string form, will find all
the code segments. I then pull out the code segment and pass it to
exec() to execute it. I can capture the output of the exec() call by
redirecting sys.stdout to a StringIO object. The problem is that this;
I can match the <python>...</python> segments no problem. But I only
want to replace each one in turn with the results of the exec() call.
If I do this:

text = re.sub(pattern, ".. exec() output..", text) it replaces all the
code segments, not just the one that was matched. I need to substitute
in the output of the exec() (which is a string when I'm done) into the
one place it came from.

Hope this clears up any confusion.

I didn't include the whole program in my first post as it's kind of
long. I thought the sections I included above were enough information
to follow what I'm trying to do, at least I hope so.

Thanks again in advance for your help,
Doug



From pushpin at media.mit.edu  Wed Jul 30 13:41:37 2003
From: pushpin at media.mit.edu (Josh)
Date: 30 Jul 2003 10:41:37 -0700
Subject: tkinter menu bars, assigning children to parents, and grid/pack managers
Message-ID: <8bf5dfd1.0307300941.f068138@posting.google.com>

Caution, newbie approaching...

I'm trying to come up with a very simple Tkinter test application that
consists of a window with a drop-down menu bar at the top and a grid
of colored rectangles filling the remainder of the window.  Mind you,
this is a contrived test application to help me understand Tkinter and
Python, not an actual application yet.  I've trivially subclassed
Tkinter.Canvas into ColorCanvas, added a bunch of ColorCanvases to a
trivial subclass of Tkinter.Frame called MultiColor, and then tried
adding a MultiColor and a subclass of Tkinter.Frame called
MultiColorMenu to a root window.  The problem is that the menu bar is
overlaid on top of the MultiColor gridded frame, instead of above it. 
I think the problem is that I don't know how to assign a widget as a
child to a parent widget. The code I'm talking about is copied below. 
Any ideas?

Thanks,
josh

## Begin code.

import Tkinter

class ColorCanvas(Tkinter.Canvas):
    "This class is simply a colored rectangle."
    def __init__(self, background, numXPixels=300, numYPixels=100,
master=None):
        ## Initialize variables.
        if master is None:
            master = self
        self.numXPixels = numXPixels
        self.numYPixels = numYPixels
        Tkinter.Canvas.__init__(master, background=background,
width=self.numXPixels, height=self.numYPixels, borderwidth=0)

class MultiColor(Tkinter.Frame):
    "This class is a grid of colored rectangles."
    def __init__(self, numOfColors, master=None):
        Tkinter.Frame.__init__(self, master)
        self.colors = []
        for i in range(numOfColors):
            self.colors.append(ColorCanvas(background='purple'))
            self.colors[i].grid(row=i/3, column=i%3)

class MultiColorMenu(Tkinter.Frame):
    "This class is a bar of drop-down menus for manipulating a grid of
colored rectangles."
    def __init__(self, master=None):
        Tkinter.Frame.__init__(self, master)
        self.tk_menuBar(self.help_menu())

    def help_menu(self):
        help_btn = Tkinter.Menubutton(self, text='Help', underline=0)
        help_btn.pack(side=Tkinter.LEFT, padx="2m")
        help_btn.menu = Tkinter.Menu(help_btn)
        help_btn.menu.add_command(label="How To", underline=0,
command=self.helpFoo)
        help_btn.menu.add_command(label="About", underline=0,
command=self.helpFoo)
        help_btn['menu'] = help_btn.menu
        return help_btn

    def helpFoo(self):
        print 'Heelllppppp!!!'
        

def main():
    root = Tkinter.Tk()
    root.title('Lifton\'s Fabulous Color Canvases')
    mc = MultiColor(numOfColors=22, master=root)
    #mc.pack(fill=Tkinter.BOTH, side=Tkinter.BOTTOM)
    mc.grid(row=1, column=0)
    mc_menus = MultiColorMenu(master=root)
    #mc_menus.pack(fill=Tkinter.X, side=Tkinter.TOP)
    mc_menus.grid(row=0, column=1)
    root.mainloop()

main()

## End code.



From iamshady at rediffmail.com  Thu Jul  3 05:27:52 2003
From: iamshady at rediffmail.com (Jim Shady)
Date: 3 Jul 2003 02:27:52 -0700
Subject: wxPython mouse controls
Message-ID: <9afd3f36.0307030127.2abc37a1@posting.google.com>

Hi,

I am looking at the feasibility in using wxPython on a project our
company needs.

I intend to show a bar graph in a frame. I can either generate an
image and show it in a panel, or maybe draw it on a canvas (?). Either
case, the vital feature that we need is the ability to choose parts of
the bar by clicking and dragging on it. The selected portion will then
be zoomed into again by the software, generating a new bar graph.

Is this possible using wxPython?

Thanks,

Jim



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Wed Jul  9 16:10:23 2003
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 16:10:23 -0400
Subject: .join() question
References: <eo_Oa.14415$BM.4645038@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <Q4KcnQcI8sgt65GiXTWJiA@comcast.com>

"drs" <drs at ecp.cc> wrote in message
news:eo_Oa.14415$BM.4645038 at newssrv26.news.prodigy.com...
> why does
>
> >>> ''.join(lst)
>
> not automatically do
>
> >>> ''.join([str(i) for i in lst])
>
> ?  That is, is there ever a time when one does not want .join to
make
> everything into a string?  This seems like reasonable default
behavior, but
> maybe I'm missing something?

If the members of lst are already str strings, this would be a waste
of time.  If they are unicode strings, this would be the wrong thing
to do.  Auto conversions are not Python's style.

Terry J. Reedy





From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Wed Jul  2 00:04:02 2003
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 2 Jul 2003 00:04:02 -0400
Subject: __del__ not working with cyclic reference?
References: <ba1e306f.0307011837.269e3d2a@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bdtlji$pmh$1@panix2.panix.com>

In article <ba1e306f.0307011837.269e3d2a at posting.google.com>,
Jane Austine <janeaustine50 at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>I have some code using singleton pattern. The singleton instance
>is shared as a class variable. The problem is that the singleton
>instance is not cleared automatically.
>
>Following is a simplified version that shows the problem:
>
>--------
>#foobar.py
>class FooBar:
>    def __del__(self):
>        print "FooBar removed"
>
>FooBar.foobar=FooBar()
>--------
>
>Why is this so? Due to the cyclic reference? Isn't python's gc
>supposed to treat it? What singleton idiom is recommended 
>otherwise?

There are two issues that you'll run into with this: gc doesn't work on
classes that define __del__(), and prior to Python 2.3, gc doesn't run
on exit.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

Usenet is not a democracy.  It is a weird cross between an anarchy and a
dictatorship.  



From sybrenUSE at YOURthirdtower.imagination.com  Mon Jul 14 19:49:58 2003
From: sybrenUSE at YOURthirdtower.imagination.com (Sybren Stuvel)
Date: 14 Jul 2003 23:49:58 GMT
Subject: PyQT, Sharp Zaurus and color in the QTextBrowser
References: <slrnbh60lj.3jm.sybrenUSE@sybren.thirdtower.com> <mailman.1058214925.28095.python-list@python.org> <3F132103.4D18759F@engcorp.com> <mailman.1058220622.19636.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrnbh6gd6.463.sybrenUSE@sybren.thirdtower.com>

Tim Gerla enlightened us with:
> Anyway, does that mean that the Qt parser has a bug?

If it wants to be HTML-compliant: yes.
If it wants to use HTML-like codes for markup: no

Al least, that's the way I see it. I dont't know Trolltech's
intentions. I'll check out the docs.

Sybren
-- 
The problem with the world is stupidity. Not saying there should be a
capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the
safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself? 



From trash at kjn-law.de  Tue Jul  8 04:40:34 2003
From: trash at kjn-law.de (Theodor Rash)
Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 10:40:34 +0200
Subject: Building Python - how to set include and lib paths?
References: <mailman.1057262346.30857.python-list@python.org> <2003Jul4.102150@ukwit01>
Message-ID: <2lcqt-p45.ln1@newsgate.kjn.lan>

Lack Mr G M wrote:

> ...  My problem occurs when I am *building* python
> itself.  There seem to be no way that I can tell it where to look for
> header files and libraries for other packages/utilities (eg: SSL) that I
> have previously installed or how to add these to compilation and linking
> options..  It hard-wires /usr/local/{include,lib} for these.
> 
That's right. I had to patch setup.py to make it find Tcl/Tk which resides
under /opt in my system.
Theo 




From danb_83 at yahoo.com  Fri Jul  4 20:54:18 2003
From: danb_83 at yahoo.com (Dan Bishop)
Date: 4 Jul 2003 17:54:18 -0700
Subject: strings problem
References: <mailman.1057340587.28530.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ad052e5c.0307041654.14838ebd@posting.google.com>

"Jimmy verma" <jim_938 at hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.1057340587.28530.python-list at python.org>...
> Hello *.*
> 
> Can you please tell me how can i have the output in no's, instead of string 
> from this program:
>
...
> print t
> 
> The output is
> 
> Token: 50
> Token: 800
> \275\371\264
> 
> Instead of this i want the output should be in no's like this:
> bdF9B4

>>> print repr(t)
'\xbd\xf9\xb4'
>>> print ''.join(['%02X' % ord(c) for c in t])
BDF9B4



From usenet_spam at janc.invalid  Tue Jul 15 16:42:40 2003
From: usenet_spam at janc.invalid (JanC)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 20:42:40 GMT
Subject: anything like C++ references?
References: <b8c3hvsesjoumiboobml3nsnajtha99mp1@4ax.com> <m3znjg5qw7.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <3f67hvgi36s7rmtn59rajj2gpir8hhfiph@4ax.com> <3F13ADDD.57BF2969@alcyone.com> <bf13rg$hgo$1@panix2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <Xns93B9E7052ABDCJanC@213.118.75.80>

aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) schreef:

> What's the value of a file object?  I think in a
> very real sense, a file object doesn't have a "value".  You could try
> arguing that the file contents are the value, but that value is not
> contained within the object -- the object is a proxy.

IANACS[*] but I would think the combination of all the file's properties is 
the value of a file object: the file contents, the filename, any associated 
metadata, the seek pointer, the ability to read from and write to the 
contents, etc.  The fact that parts of the object, e.g. the contents, are 
stored on "external memory" instead of in "internal memory" is an 
irrelevant implementation detail IMHO...

I think of an object's "value" as the whole set of "properties" (the real 
world term, not the often limited programming term) that makes it have some 
"worth".


[*] I Am Not A Computer Scientist  ;)

-- 
JanC

"Be strict when sending and tolerant when receiving."
RFC 1958 - Architectural Principles of the Internet - section 3.9



From manish.j at gmx.net  Fri Jul 25 16:43:33 2003
From: manish.j at gmx.net (Manish Jethani)
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 02:13:33 +0530
Subject: decimal to binary
In-Reply-To: <k%eUa.24457$Za4.615290@news2.tin.it>
References: <Dh9Ua.13488$Df5.327750@news1.tin.it> <200307250653.18754.gherron@islandtraining.com> <mailman.1059141458.1696.python-list@python.org> <k%eUa.24457$Za4.615290@news2.tin.it>
Message-ID: <RNgUa.11$gZ.241@news.oracle.com>

manuel wrote:

> This is the first time that I try to handle
> binary file.
> 
> I read a tga file, and store all bytes in a list:
> 
> ---------------------------------------
> #LETTURA DEL FILE TGA
>  listByte = []
>  try:
>   f = open(filename,'rb')
>  except IOError,(errno,strerror):
>   msgstring = "I/O error(%s): %s" % (errno, strerror); Draw()
>   return
>  fileReaded = f.read();
>  msgstring = "Parsing tga..."; Draw()
>  for i in range(len(fileReaded)):
>   listByte.append(ord(fileReaded[i]))
>  f.close()
> ------------------------------------------
> 
> I use ord() to convert the value of byte in
> integer, if I don't make this, I've the ASCII
> symbol...

You CAN store the byte as it is, in a string.  So, for example,
you can store
    'a(*@'
instead of
    [97, 40, 42, 64]
But it depends on your requirements.

> But, for listByte[17], I must read the sequence
> of 0 and 1, because I must know the 4? and 5? bit:
> this bits specify the image origin.

This function returns the binary representation as a string:

def foo(i):
    b = ''
    while i > 0:
        j = i & 1
        b = str(j) + b
        i >>= 1
    return b

bin = foo(listByte[17])
bin[-4]  # 4th (3rd) bit
bin[-5]  # 5th (4th) bit

You have to check for IndexError, or check the length of the string.

BUT!  But you don't need to do this in order to get the value of
the 4th (3rd) bit.  Just do this:

if listByte[17] & (1 << 3):
  <bit is set>
else:
  <bit is not set>

For the 5th (4th) bit, change '<< 3' to '<< 4'; and so on.

-Manish

-- 
Manish Jethani (manish.j at gmx.net)
phone (work) +91-80-51073488




From ulope at gmx.de  Sun Jul 20 18:54:34 2003
From: ulope at gmx.de (Ulrich Petri)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 00:54:34 +0200
Subject: Possible use of Python for a voting machine demo project -- your feedback requested
References: <P9DSa.111436$Io.9552373@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <bff6jb$e8goe$1@ID-67890.news.uni-berlin.de>

"Alan Dechert" <adechert at earthlink.net> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:P9DSa.111436$Io.9552373 at newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...

<snip voting with computers>

Sorry but why on earth you dont just print that on paper and let people make
their crosses where they want?





From runeb at [remove].eyeone.com  Thu Jul 31 05:49:38 2003
From: runeb at [remove].eyeone.com (Rune Braathen)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 11:49:38 +0200
Subject: SGI + SUN = OpenGL for Jython
In-Reply-To: <3a838998.0307301803.4e247823@posting.google.com>
References: <3a838998.0307301803.4e247823@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bgb6ob$k0u$1@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net>

Buckshot wrote:
[ ... ]
> Sweet!  Now we'll be able to use OpenGL with Jython!

It's been possible to use the various other OpenGL-bindings for java 
through jython for years. But it is nevertheless a good thing that SUN 
finally decided on making a more 'official' binding.

Anyway, I'm sure it won't hold a candle to PyOpenGL.

-- 
runeb




From evan at 4-am.com  Thu Jul 10 12:13:47 2003
From: evan at 4-am.com (Evan Simpson)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 11:13:47 -0500
Subject: Business model for Open Source - advice wanted
In-Reply-To: <246a4e07.0307100613.fc2fc50@posting.google.com>
References: <246a4e07.0307100613.fc2fc50@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3F0D90BB.7080000@4-am.com>

Frank Millman wrote:
> I am busy developing an accounting package, using Python and wxPython,
> together with PostgreSQL on a Unix platform or SQL Server on a Windows
> platform. I am a qualified accountant and have been developing
> accounting software, mostly customised, for over 20 years.

I know very little about accounting, or software to support it, but this 
paragraph seems to imply that there is a significant market for 
customizations to such software.  Is this correct?  If so, you may want 
to consider the business model that made Zope Corp. a success.

> The essence of a business model must be that the source code may be
> free, but you have to pay for support. I believe that accounting
> systems more than most systems need support, and that a sensible
> company looking for accounting software would not consider anything
> that was not supported.

While Zope Corp. sells support, they make most of their money by selling 
their expertise as Zope custom solution providers.  This *only* works 
because Zope is Free -- instead of being the sole vendor pushing a 
proprietary solution, they are merely the most prominent and 
knowledgable developers for a widely-used platform.

So, if you can create an accounting package that is so good that 
everyone wants to use it, yet allowing substantial demand for 
customization, you can promote yourself as the best provider of such 
services, as well as support.  "I wrote it, so I know it inside and out. 
  I can provide your business with a totally customized accounting 
solution, plus support, for less than you would pay in licensing fees 
for a boxed product."

Cheers,

Evan @ 4-am






From tim.one at comcast.net  Tue Jul 22 14:17:28 2003
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 14:17:28 -0400
Subject: python startup on XP very slow
In-Reply-To: <bfjsjv$32i$00$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <BIEJKCLHCIOIHAGOKOLHCEIIGGAA.tim.one@comcast.net>

[christof hoeke]
> for some days now i have problems with python taking a lot of time to
> start up or run programs.

What did you change on your system some days ago?  That is, things were
fine, at some point they got worse, and what changed between those two
times?

> today i installed the python 2.3rc1 but still the same problem.

That's just more evidence that it's got nothing in particular to do with
Python.

> e.g. starting pythonwin 1.53 on winXP (athlon 1200 with 512MB) which
> normally took only a few seconds now takes at least 15-20 seconds.
>
> has anybody had a similar problem or knows where the delay comes from?

I don't, and don't know.  Common culprits for things "like this" include
updates to virus scanners and firewall software -- anything that sticks its
nose into other processes' business.  So you can try killing other
processes, one at a time, and see how that affects Python startup time.





From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sun Jul 20 09:39:51 2003
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 20 Jul 2003 09:39:51 -0400
Subject: properties + types, implementing meta-class desciptors elegantly?
References: <mailman.1058532630.7342.python-list@python.org> <mailman.1058629890.30475.python-list@python.org> <bfc82v$hm8$0@216.39.172.122> <mailman.1058654317.6488.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bfe637$6rk$1@panix2.panix.com>

In article <mailman.1058654317.6488.python-list at python.org>,
Mike C. Fletcher <mcfletch at rogers.com> wrote:
>
>    * finally, stores the value
>          o tries to do what would have been done if there were no
>            descriptor (with the new, coerced value)
>          o does *not* create new names in the object's namespace (all
>            names are documented w/ descriptors, there's not a lot of
>            '_' prefixed names cluttering the namespace)
>          o does *not* require a new dictionary/storage-object attribute
>            for the object (the descriptor works like any other
>            descriptor, a *stand-alone* object that replaces a regular
>            attribute)

But this is a recipe for name clashes.  If you follow the first bullet,
it's a normal attribute, but everything else says you want a property.
Properties are themselves objects that are attached to names in an
object.  You can't have the same name bound to two different objects.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

This is Python.  We don't care much about theory, except where it intersects 
with useful practice.  --Aahz



From tgerla at outsourcefinancial.com  Mon Jul 14 18:09:38 2003
From: tgerla at outsourcefinancial.com (Tim Gerla)
Date: 14 Jul 2003 15:09:38 -0700
Subject: PyQT, Sharp Zaurus and color in the QTextBrowser
In-Reply-To: <3F132103.4D18759F@engcorp.com>
References: <slrnbh60lj.3jm.sybrenUSE@sybren.thirdtower.com>
	 <mailman.1058214925.28095.python-list@python.org>
	 <3F132103.4D18759F@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <1058220577.5035.4.camel@redwall.ofsloans.com>

On Mon, 2003-07-14 at 14:30, Peter Hansen wrote:
> Tim Gerla wrote:
> > 
> > Very fun stuff. Someday I hope to have a Zaurus or similar device to
> > toy with. Anyway, to actually be on topic, "proper" HTML (XHTML 1.0,
> > and maybe HTML 4.0? I don't recall...) requires double-quotes to be
> > used. Single quotes are illegal. 
> 
> Are you certain about that?  It seems very unlikely that it would 
> outlaw use of single quotes when it is supposed to be XML-compatible, 
> and XML explicitly allows either single or double quotes around attributes.

You're right--I was under the wrong impression about single & double quotes.
For some reason I recall reading somewhere (can't trust everything you read online)
that XML only allowed double quotes, and I never bothered to verify it.

Anyway, does that mean that the Qt parser has a bug?

-Tim





From manish.j at gmx.net  Wed Jul  2 19:15:19 2003
From: manish.j at gmx.net (Manish Jethani)
Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 04:45:19 +0530
Subject: 'For' loop symmetry with list comprehensions.
In-Reply-To: <840592e1.0307021036.508d7d7d@posting.google.com>
References: <840592e1.0307021036.508d7d7d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <9QJMa.12$eD3.406@news.oracle.com>

Hannu Kankaanp?? wrote:
> One can currently say this with list comprehensions:
> 
> [x.lower() for x in words if x.startswith('foo')]
> 
> Wouldn't it be better if the normal 'for' syntax was symmetrical
> with the notation used in list comprehensions? To be more specific,
> it lacks the 'if' part. I.e. this should be possible:
> 
> for x in words if x.startswith('foo'):
>     print x

To some extent, yes:

for x in words:
    if x.startswith('foo'): print x

You saved one level of indent.

-Manish

-- 
Manish Jethani (manish.j at gmx.net)
phone (work) +91-80-51073488




From tim_one at email.msn.com  Wed Jul 23 00:24:52 2003
From: tim_one at email.msn.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 00:24:52 -0400
Subject: Python and VS.Net
In-Reply-To: <bfkvn6$msi$1@eeyore.INS.cwru.edu>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCOEEKEOAB.tim_one@email.msn.com>

[Ravi]
> Has anyone tried building Python with VC++.NET? Does it work or fail
> horribly like I think it will.

Yes, several people have built it that way, and it works fine.  You can get
into obscure kinds of trouble if you try to mix code compiled with VC6 and
VC7, though, because the C runtime systems are distinct (so, e.g.,
malloc()ing memory in one runtime and free()ing it in another, or passing
FILE* thingies across them, can lead to subtle-- or instantly
catastrophic --problems).

Note that all current Windows installers from PythonLabs install code
compiled with VC6, and the same will be true for 2.3 final (due out next
week).  It also seems that 3rd-party extension modules compiled with VC7 are
still hard to come by.

> My boss seems to think it is good to have programs that are in managed
> code because it is more 'portable'.  Not that there's another complete
> .NET runtime besides Microsoft's but he does not understand that.

If you're younger than him, you can reasonably hope to outlive him <wink>.

alas-it's-not-a-strategy-that-works-your-whole-career-ly y'rs  - tim





From whatsupg21 at hotmail.com  Thu Jul 10 13:38:48 2003
From: whatsupg21 at hotmail.com (Michael)
Date: 10 Jul 2003 10:38:48 -0700
Subject: Parsing
Message-ID: <e5fb8973.0307100938.13fcea56@posting.google.com>

I have been assigned a project to parse a webpage for data using
Python. I have finished only basic tutorials. Any suggestions as to
where I should go from here? Thanks in advance.



From sybrenUSE at YOURthirdtower.imagination.com  Wed Jul 16 11:14:27 2003
From: sybrenUSE at YOURthirdtower.imagination.com (Sybren Stuvel)
Date: 16 Jul 2003 15:14:27 GMT
Subject: PyQT, Sharp Zaurus and color in the QTextBrowser
References: <slrnbh60lj.3jm.sybrenUSE@sybren.thirdtower.com> <mailman.1058214925.28095.python-list@python.org> <slrnbh90ee.8j9.sybrenUSE@sybren.thirdtower.com> <rP0Ra.3176$Jk5.1958269@feed2.centurytel.net>
Message-ID: <slrnbhaqui.9i0.sybrenUSE@sybren.thirdtower.com>

Greg Fortune enlightened us with:
> Are you intended on releasing the source for this?  If so, dump
> something up there so we can play ;o)

Yes, I am going to release the source for this ;-) I'll post it on
http://zaurus.thirdtower.com/ when I'm a bit further in the building
process. I'll let the group know when I do that!

Sybren
-- 
The problem with the world is stupidity. Not saying there should be a
capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the
safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself? 



From jjl at pobox.com  Sun Jul 27 20:23:18 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 28 Jul 2003 01:23:18 +0100
Subject: looping through a file
References: <3eaf6668$0$1030$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au> <bfs0ec$eq9$1@news.iucc.ac.il> <3f21903c$0$27898$626a54ce@news.free.fr> <mailman.1059251920.7295.python-list@python.org> <87llukrdow.fsf@pobox.com> <bg112v$3i1$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <87u197a495.fsf@pobox.com>

bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) writes:

> On 27 Jul 2003 01:55:11 +0100, jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee) wrote:
[...]
> >I recall that in an old Python you could get into an awful mess (as I
> >did) with this by having several 'for line in file' blocks in a row:
> >
> >for line in f:
> >    if not line.startswith("magic"): continue  # skip header
> >
> >for line in f:
> >    ...process data...

[my example should have been:

for line in f:
    if line.startswith("magic"): break  # skip header
for line in f:
    ...process data...
]

> What mess was that? (unless you meant to re-open the file to read
> from the beginning)

That example creates (used to, anyway) two iterators -- one for each
'for line in f'.  The first reads chunks (not just one line at a time)
and caches the read data.  The second one knows nothing about that and
innocently starts reading from the seek position that the first
happened to stop at -- ie., at some random point further on than the
point where you thought you'd finished up at the break in the first
loop.

http://www.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=3C6D73DE.3090201%40wi.mit.edu&rnum=3


> >I gathered from a recent thread that this has changed -- the file is
> >its own iterator now.  Was the old behaviour ever released in 2.2, or
> >was it just part of a 2.3 beta?
> >
> Curious what was changed ...

I'm not certain it has changed -- haven't tested.


John



From imbosol at aerojockey.com  Thu Jul 31 03:54:59 2003
From: imbosol at aerojockey.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 07:54:59 GMT
Subject: Exceptions as New Style Classes
References: <98c4ab9a.0307300830.72dcdc74@posting.google.com> <mailman.1059599265.28808.python-list@python.org> <olYVa.6227$Jz2.693@nwrdny02.gnilink.net> <mailman.1059631247.24226.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <nX3Wa.4394$cI2.1250@nwrdny01.gnilink.net>

Steven Taschuk wrote:
> Quoth Carl Banks:
>> Steven Taschuk wrote:
>> > At the moment the dominant idea for solving these problems is to
>> > make inheritance from Exception mandatory for exception types; see
>  [...]
>> Why not give exceptions their own metaclass?  So if type(x) is
>> ExceptionMetaclass, it's a class.  If type(type(x)) is
>> ExceptionMetaclass, it's an instance.  Otherwise, it's illegal to
>> raise it.
> 
> That seems workable.  (I'd prefer, though, to test
>    isinstance(type(x), ExceptionMetaclass)
> and likewise for the second case.)
> 
> I'm not sure what it gains us, though, over the idea of mandatory
> inheritance from Exception.  Am I missing something?

Probably not much, unless you think you want to raise exceptions that
aren't subclasses of Exception.


-- 
CARL BANKS



From paddy3118 at netscape.netNOTthisBIT  Mon Jul 14 20:09:25 2003
From: paddy3118 at netscape.netNOTthisBIT (Donald 'Paddy' McCarthy)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 01:09:25 +0100
Subject: anything like C++ references?
In-Reply-To: <13t0hvsb7idh0g6ac3upe5k0qd6flc17ah@4ax.com>
References: <13t0hvsb7idh0g6ac3upe5k0qd6flc17ah@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <0BHQa.982$mS2.152@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk>

Tom Plunket wrote:
> I want to do something along the lines of the following C++ code:
> 
> void change(int& i)
> {
>    i++;
> }
> 
> 
> Is there any way to do references like this in Python?  It'd be
> like this, though clearly this doesn't change the thing I want it
> to change:
> 
> def change(val):
>    val += 1
> 
> v = 0
> change(v)
> 
> # v == 1 now.
> 
> thanks.
> 
> I can see that maybe if I passed in a list of one integer I could
> change that, but that seems circuitous to me.
> 
> 
> -tom!

Hi Tom,
Welcome to Python.
I guess the first thing to remember is that Python is not any other 
language. It has its own ways of doing things, and its own nomenclature, 
that while in some cases may use the same term or phrase as another 
language, or symbols used in Mathematics - It puts a Python meaning on them.

Python does things its own way. I found that I got much more productive 
when I learnt enough to let go of the C idioms in my case that I had 
initially. I guess I was helped in that I was a good programmer in C, 
didn't like C++ or Java and was looking for another language that would 
be more productive. I could do the C pointer wizardry but in no way did 
I think that it was ideal. It sometimes helps to have an understanding 
of what Python is doing 'under the hood', but I don't solve my Python 
problems by translating solutions expressed in C pointer terms.

Other mails have gone into the minutia of trying to answer the question.
I would just like to add that if you look up scope rules or the global 
keyword you will find ways of accessing variables defined outside of a 
function definition.






From dave at pythonapocrypha.com  Wed Jul  2 18:25:13 2003
From: dave at pythonapocrypha.com (Dave Brueck)
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 15:25:13 -0700
Subject: Remote db connections possible with DCOracle2?
In-Reply-To: <200307021518.22410.dave@pythonapocrypha.com>
References: <16131.19186.190625.679324@montanaro.dyndns.org> <200307021518.22410.dave@pythonapocrypha.com>
Message-ID: <200307021525.13908.dave@pythonapocrypha.com>

On Wednesday 02 July 2003 03:18 pm, Dave Brueck wrote:
> On Wednesday 02 July 2003 02:13 pm, Skip Montanaro wrote:
> > Connections to remote Oracle databases doesn't seem possible with
> > DCOracle2. I have no problem making remote connections using Perl's
> > DBI::Oracle package, so I know it's possible in theory.  Is this
> > capability available in DCOracle2 but just not documented perhaps?
>
> Actually, I've never used a _local_ database with DCOracle2, so it's very
> possible but, IMO, very underdocumented too. :)
>
> Use this style of connection string (all one line if it wraps):
>
> user/password@(description=(address=(host=10.20.30.40)(protocol=tcp)(port=1
>521))(connect_data=(sid=dbsid)))
>
> (changing the values of user, password, 10.20.30.40, and dbsid of course).

Replying to myself here because I forgot to mention that the benefit of the 
hideous connection string is that it requires no modification to your 
TNSNAMES.ORA file (I believe the normal way of connecting to a remote DB is 
to specify a certain name that you've configured in TNSNAMES.ORA).

The above is particularly important if you don't have a true Oracle client 
installation (IIRC last year I posted a list of just the files you need to 
make DCOracle2 work without doing a full Oracle client install - on Linux, at 
least for me, the Oracle client install was massive, scary, and flaky).

-Dave





From tjreedy at udel.edu  Sun Jul 13 15:07:23 2003
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 15:07:23 -0400
Subject: anything like C++ references?
References: <13t0hvsb7idh0g6ac3upe5k0qd6flc17ah@4ax.com> <pan.2003.07.13.10.58.11.376531@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <lq-cnWRG9rRuMIyiXTWJjQ@comcast.com>

"David McNab" <postmaster at 127.0.0.1> wrote in message
news:pan.2003.07.13.10.58.11.376531 at 127.0.0.1...
> In Python, basic types like strings and numbers are a weird
exception to
> the 'everything is an object' rule.

In Java perhaps, but NOT in Python.  This is WRONG, WRONG, WRONG.
Please do not muddy the waters like this.

In Python, most builtin types are immutable.  The two mutable builtin
types are lists and dicts.  Instances of user-defined classes are also
mutable by default.

>When you pass any other object in a function,
>But when you pass a string or numeric object, [incorrect statement
clipped]

In Python, everything is 'passed' to functions the same way:  first,
the argument expressions are evaluated one at a time, left to right.
In the typical case (number of argument expressions == number of
positional parameters), the resulting objects are then bound to the
corresponding parameter names, left to right, in the local namespace
of the function.  (Or, if you prefer, the names are bound ...)  The
type of the argument objects is not looked at.

How a particular interpreter performs name binding is its own
business, as long as the specified semantics are implemented.  What
CPython does may or may not be the same as Jython or any other actual
or potential computer implementation.  What any computer does is
probably significantly different from what human interpreters do.

Terry J. Reedy





From tzot at sil-tec.gr  Tue Jul 22 13:19:30 2003
From: tzot at sil-tec.gr (Christos TZOTZIOY Georgiou)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 20:19:30 +0300
Subject: Confusing automated translators.
References: <37d6f77c.0307130932.1e3adf0d@posting.google.com> <3f11ac74$0$49101$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl> <ad052e5c.0307131718.4903430d@posting.google.com> <3F12808B.E53193B8@hotmail.com> <bf49ch$6n7$1@news.hccnet.nl> <3f15b04b$0$49114$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <cesqhvsupo96cdo52hg67iqhcm6huncusd@4ax.com>

On Wed, 16 Jul 2003 22:06:36 +0200, rumours say that Irmen de Jong
<irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl> might have written:

>You should really add a comma at the right place, otherwise even Dutch
>people themselves tend to get confused rather quickly too:
>
>"Als achter vliegen vliegen vliegen, vliegen vliegen vliegen achterna."

...and the meaning is?
-- 
TZOTZIOY, I speak England very best,
Microsoft Security Alert: the Matrix began as open source.



From tbonemp3 at yahoo.com  Mon Jul 21 18:23:25 2003
From: tbonemp3 at yahoo.com (Ted Weatherly)
Date: 21 Jul 2003 15:23:25 -0700
Subject: Automatically filling in answers to interactive shell command questions
Message-ID: <d365ef4b.0307211423.27ba6d86@posting.google.com>

Is it possible to use python to automatically fill in the answers to
interactive shell command questions?  For example, I am using a shell
command addperson that behaves as follows:

  > addperson
  First Name: Ted
  Birthday: 12/08/1977
  Height: 6'0"
  Location: San Francisco, CA
  > 

I am prompted for "First Name: " and I enter "Ted".  I am prompted for
"Birthday: " and I enter "12/08/1977".  Imagine doing this for 100
people or more...it gets tiresome.

Assuming I can't change the addperson command to read data from a
file, is there any way to use python to fill in the data for the
expected questions?  Perhaps a different language would be better?

-Ted



From maxm at mxm.dk  Sun Jul 13 13:51:35 2003
From: maxm at mxm.dk (Max M)
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 19:51:35 +0200
Subject: The definition of an object in Python
In-Reply-To: <94af9c5a.0307130919.1ab63400@posting.google.com>
References: <94af9c5a.0307130919.1ab63400@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3F119C27.3050806@mxm.dk>

Avi Kak wrote:

>   But when I do the following
> 
>       mystring = 'hello'
> 
>       print mystring.id()
> 
>       print mystring.type()
> 
>   Python complains that mystring does not possess the attributes
>   id and type.


mystring = 'hello'

print id(mystring)

print type(mystring)

 >>> 8985424
 >>> <type 'string'>


id and type are built in functions. Not methods on objects.

Wich imho is a good thing. This means that you can have methods on 
objects called id and type, without loosing the ablity to use these 
functions.


regards Max N




From shalehperry at comcast.net  Mon Jul 14 21:23:10 2003
From: shalehperry at comcast.net (Sean 'Shaleh' Perry)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 18:23:10 -0700
Subject: www.python.org hacked?
In-Reply-To: <bev3dj$f15$1@panix2.panix.com>
References: <5cf68ce0.0307141017.1f3fe18e@posting.google.com> <3F12FA18.B04B400E@engcorp.com> <bev3dj$f15$1@panix2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <200307141823.10360.shalehperry@comcast.net>

On Monday 14 July 2003 13:22, Aahz wrote:
> In article <3F12FA18.B04B400E at engcorp.com>,
>
> Peter Hansen  <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:
> >Have we been hacked, or is this human error during maintenance?
>
> Yes to both.  :-(  We were actually hacked a while ago, then failed to
> do a complete cleanup.  When we got the disk full problem, I attempted
> to update the main page so people would know what was going on; I
> thought that vi was capable of managing the re-write inplace.  I was
> wrong.  We're back on the air, with special thanks to Thomas Wouters for
> interrupting his post-OSCON snooze.

both vim and nvi have options you can pass them so that they do not make 
copies of the file.  nvi is -F and I forget what the vim option is.





From jane.doe at acme.com  Fri Jul 25 13:59:12 2003
From: jane.doe at acme.com (Jane Doe)
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 19:59:12 +0200
Subject: [newbie] MySQL : How to check if no row returned?
References: <5ua0ivcl3loh45cq6pnoimsoa86nt0q4db@4ax.com> <mailman.1059075503.7037.python-list@python.org> <dSXTa.71553$R92.59063@news2.central.cox.net>
Message-ID: <tur2iv8t8d51hifush50b32aqe6iooqjd4@4ax.com>

On Thu, 24 Jul 2003 21:05:13 GMT, "Steve Holden"
<sholden at holdenweb.com> wrote:
>Alternatively, you can observer that the fetchall() method will return an
>empty list, and use
>
>    if not rows:
>        # empty set returned

Thx to you both. That did it :-)

JD.



From mwh at python.net  Tue Jul 29 14:15:25 2003
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 18:15:25 GMT
Subject: Debugging Python ?
References: <mailman.1059409013.10134.python-list@python.org> <vian1bbfkogpa1@news.supernews.com> <ef72fb2b.0307281449.6b144be7@posting.google.com> <3c91a864.0307282013.2acb2d1f@posting.google.com> <84fc4588.0307290453.52671e11@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <7h365llci8u.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

pythonguy at Hotpop.com (Anand Pillai) writes:

> It would be nice if you could give a name
> to your email address, i.e if you are not
> that paranoid as it seems.

I know his name, and I bet a bit of work with google will find it for
you too, if you care -- though I can't see why you would.

Cheers,
mwh

-- 
3. Syntactic sugar causes cancer of the semicolon.
  -- Alan Perlis, http://www.cs.yale.edu/homes/perlis-alan/quotes.html



From just at xs4all.nl  Tue Jul  8 04:17:16 2003
From: just at xs4all.nl (Just)
Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 10:17:16 +0200
Subject: path module
References: <mailman.1057651032.22842.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <just-7F73EB.10171608072003@news1.news.xs4all.nl>

In article <mailman.1057651032.22842.python-list at python.org>,
 Ian Bicking <ianb at colorstudy.com> wrote:

> I think Jason Orendorff's path module is really nice:
>   http://www.jorendorff.com/articles/python/path/
> 
> Beats the hell out of os.path, which is an ugly thing indeed.  The OO
> interface means you could use the interface nicely to implement other
> things, like URLs.  The problem?  It's just some module.  The various os
> functions (of which path replaces quite a few) have become idiomatic to
> me, and I'm sure others as well.  I find myself reluctant to use it in
> code that's not essentially private, because it's changing something
> small and seemingly trivial, and people won't be familiar with it.
> 
> The solution?  It should be a builtin!  Or, if not a builtin, included
> in the os module.  But I actually like the idea of it being a builtin --
> if open is a builtin, path stands right up there too.  It would get rid
> of 90% of the use of the os module.
> 
> Thoughts?  Reactions?

I would greatly appreaciate such a module in the std library, but while 
Jason's module has some very cool features, to my taste it goes a bit 
too far with overloading operators. I really don't like overloading a/b 
to mean os.path.join(a, b) and I don't think the default iterator should 
do a listdir (although list(mypath) is indeed cute). If it were toned 
down a bit in this area I think we may be able to make a good case for 
including it in the std library.

Just



From adalke at mindspring.com  Mon Jul 21 16:17:53 2003
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 14:17:53 -0600
Subject: Voting Project Needs Python People
References: <LDVSa.14955$Mc.1126731@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <xqxwuebfyym.fsf@cola2.ca.boeing.com>
Message-ID: <bfhhgq$5lu$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net>

Harry George:
> Is the intent to do opensource all the way to commodity chips?  Else a
> proprietary BIOS could be the weak link.

In which way?  There resulting code should be runnable on a wide number
of platforms, so there isn't a single source issue, and the actual vote is
on voter verifiable paper, so corruption of the BIOS won't be able to
affect anything other than the number of "something's wrong - this isn't
what I voted for" complaints.

Perhaps you were thinking of a pure electronic version?

                    Andrew
                    dalke at dalkescientific.com





From ivlenin at gmx.co.uk  Mon Jul 14 08:56:06 2003
From: ivlenin at gmx.co.uk (I V)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 12:56:06 GMT
Subject: anything like C++ references?
References: <13t0hvsb7idh0g6ac3upe5k0qd6flc17ah@4ax.com> <pan.2003.07.13.10.58.11.376531@127.0.0.1> <lq-cnWRG9rRuMIyiXTWJjQ@comcast.com> <b8c3hvsesjoumiboobml3nsnajtha99mp1@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3f12a45b.6171268@news.freeserve.com>

On Sun, 13 Jul 2003 20:39:56 +0100, Stephen Horne
<intentionally at blank.co.uk> wrote:

>The fact is that 'assignment' has a common meaning separate from the
>choice of programming language, and that the way Python handles name

Yes.

>binding means that meaning is not respected by Python for mutable
>objects.

No.

Assignment takes a name and binds it to a different value, whatever
programming language you use. Python does this for both immutable and
mutable types. The same is true of Lisp, and of C++ (although, in C++,
you can provide an implementation of operator= which does something
else, just as you can provide an implementation of operator+ which
doesn't add, but in both cases to do so is a mistake).

>Python, however, does not respect this meaning. It uses an arbitrary
>distinction based on whether or not the object has internals that can
>be usefully in-place modified, and uses that distinction to vary the

No, it doesn't. 

x = (1, 2) 

binds the name 'x' to a tuple entity with the value '(1, 2)'. 

x = [1, 2]

binds the name 'x' to a list entity with the value '[1, 2]'.

There's no distinction here, arbitary or otherwise. There is an
exposed implementation detail as regards the identity of immutable and
mutable entities, but this doesn't effect the semantics of their
values.
-- 
"Mr I V Lenin, the Lenin of love"



From tl_news at nexgo.de  Thu Jul 31 13:00:46 2003
From: tl_news at nexgo.de (Tino Lange)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 19:00:46 +0200
Subject: <dict>.setdefault()
References: <kmgiivclivi0vhbgr6adel4dafflq6i6ir@4ax.com> <slrnbiiiem.pii.alf@largo.fayauffre.org>
Message-ID: <4jiiivoph0jr20dvfmp1mn5ii4m3ouusje@4ax.com>

On Thu, 31 Jul 2003 16:54:46 +0000 (UTC), Alexandre Fayolle
<alf at fayauffre.org> wrote:

>> I just realized that <dict>.setdefault *always* executes the second
>> argument - even if it's not necessary, because the requested item in
>> the first argument exists.

> method and function arguments are always evaluated before the
>method is called. 

Yep. You're right. Of course it's like that.
Anyway - that's not what I expected in the first thought.

It shows that less code is not always the best code...

Thanks!

Tino



From lamar_air at hotmail.com  Thu Jul 10 11:11:03 2003
From: lamar_air at hotmail.com (lamar_air)
Date: 10 Jul 2003 08:11:03 -0700
Subject: delete file from python cgi
Message-ID: <2c6431ab.0307100711.780a65ad@posting.google.com>

I have a python script and i want to delete a file on my computer
c:\....\...\.. .txt what's the script to do this?  I know how to write
to files but i also need to know how to delete a file.



From irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl  Sun Jul 27 07:48:55 2003
From: irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 13:48:55 +0200
Subject: Tools for reading Dr Dobb's Python-URL
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1059296203.18871.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1059296203.18871.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3f23bc25$0$49102$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

Egbert Bouwman wrote:

> What is _the_ tool for reading Dr. Dobb's Python-URL,
> I mean not only seeing the url's, but opening them as well ?
> 
> I have made a python-script which handles it reasonably well,
> but someone must have invented a better wheel before me.

Open the message in your news reader.
Click on an URL in the message.

Sorry, couldn't resist. I'm not sure what you want to
do, really? You can also read Python-URL online (as a web page):
http://www.ddj.com/topics/pythonurl/

--Irmen




From usenet_spam at janc.invalid  Tue Jul 15 23:02:02 2003
From: usenet_spam at janc.invalid (JanC)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 03:02:02 GMT
Subject: A few beginning questions
References: <3f129a8a$1@mail.hmgcc.gov.uk> <2259b0e2.0307140930.4b3c43a5@posting.google.com> <ptkdj863.fsf@python.net> <bf0anc$9gch1$1@ID-141451.news.uni-berlin.de> <3f13bd77$1@mail.hmgcc.gov.uk> <slrnbh8e1s.o6o.rmunn@localhost.localdomain> <3f1444bc$0$49100$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <Xns93BA333297753JanC@213.118.75.80>

Irmen de Jong <irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl> schreef:

>> Cons: It's vi. That means a pretty steep learning curve until you've
>> gotten used to modal editing, where you go into "insert mode" to type
>> text and go back into "command mode" (by hitting ESC) to move the
>> cursor, copy and paste text, do searches, move text around, etc. Many
>> people try vi and give up in disgust after five minutes.
> 
> Actually, moving the cursor around, erasing characters (del, bs) and
> perhaps some other frequent actions *don't* require you to switch to
> command mode in Vim...
> So perhaps it is a lot less painful to start using Vim (compared
> to a 'true' vi).

And when using "gVim Easy" (aka "evim" or "gvim -y") you almost never need 
command mode.

-- 
JanC

"Be strict when sending and tolerant when receiving."
RFC 1958 - Architectural Principles of the Internet - section 3.9



From news at garthy.com  Thu Jul 24 17:36:55 2003
From: news at garthy.com (Garth)
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 22:36:55 +0100
Subject: possible error in socketmodule / asyncore on win32
In-Reply-To: <U8XTa.56405$Df6.54141@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk>
References: <U8XTa.56405$Df6.54141@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk>
Message-ID: <2iYTa.56897$Df6.39614@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk>

Garth wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> I think there's an error in ther socketmodule.c code
> under windows. The code in internal connect should test
>  exceptfds to check for connecttion refused. If this is so it
> should call getsockopt(SOL_SOCKET, SO_ERROR,..) to get the error
> status. (Source microsoft Platform SDK)
> 
> If this isn't then the asynccore module fails on windows and never
> returns connection refused.
> 
> The code should probably look something like this (untested)
> 
> if (s->sock_timeout > 0.0) {
>     if (res < 0 && WSAGetLastError() == WSAEWOULDBLOCK) {
>     /* This is a mess.  Best solution: trust select */
>     fd_set exfds;
>     struct timeval tv;
>     tv.tv_sec = (int)s->sock_timeout;
>     tv.tv_usec = (int)((s->sock_timeout - tv.tv_sec) * 1e6);
>     FD_ZERO(&exfds);
>     FD_SET(s->sock_fd, &exfds);
>     /* Platform SDK says so */
>     res = select(s->sock_fd+1, NULL, NULL, &exfds, &tv);
/* CORRECTION! */
      if (res > 0)
>     {
>         if( FD_ISSET( &exfds ) )
>         {
>         /* Get the real reason */
>             
> getsockopt(s->sock_fd,SOL_SOCKET,SO_ERROR,(char*)&res,sizeof(res));
>         }
>         else
>         {
>         res = 0;
>         }
>     }
/* CORRECTION */
      else if( res == 0 )
      {
          res = WSAEWOULDBLOCK;
      }
else
{	
	/* Not sure we should return the erro from select? */
	res =  WSAGetLastError()
}
>     }
> } else if (res < 0)
>     res = WSAGetLastError();

The first code I wrote left in writefd testmaybe I should have left it 
in. I'll have to wait till I get to work to test it but looking at the 
platform sdk on select should explain what my code is trying to do. ;-)

Laters

Garth




From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Mon Jul 14 11:39:15 2003
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 10:39:15 -0500
Subject: Expressing time.
In-Reply-To: <beuhku$68e$1@canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca> ("Sean"'s message of
 "Mon, 14 Jul 2003 10:18:53 -0500")
References: <beuhku$68e$1@canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca>
Message-ID: <m2he5p6rto.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

>>>>> "Sean" == Sean  <null-spam at tfh.ca> writes:


    Sean> Is there any python facilities to make this an easier chore
    Sean> (aka time.localtime()+months(3))?  (I included months as it
    Sean> is a special case in that you can't just arbitrarily
    Sean> calculate months in seconds without being relative to a
    Sean> particular month).

The mx.DateTime package does what you need:

Eg,

from mx.DateTime import now, RelativeDateTime, DateTime
date2 =  now()
date1 = date2 + RelativeDateTime(days=-7)  # 7 days ago





From hst at empolis.co.uk  Tue Jul 15 12:06:57 2003
From: hst at empolis.co.uk (Harvey Thomas)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 17:06:57 +0100
Subject: [OT] sentances with two meanings
Message-ID: <8FC4E7C302A6A64AAD5DB1FA0E825DEB04F4D9@hendrix.empolisuk.com>

Syver Enstad
> roy at panix.com (Roy Smith) writes:
> 
> > Harvey Thomas <hst at empolis.co.uk> wrote:
> > > Also 'I was unknown to you and you deceived me'. Slightly 
> colloquial
> > 
> > 
> > Given the biblical meaning of "known", this could have even 
> more than
> > two meanings :-)
> 
> Does "to know" in english also mean to feel someone? In my 
> own language
> the direct translation of the english know also means to feel. I could
> say (translated) "I know the cold", meaning I feel the cold
> weather. 
> 
Not really. The sense Roy is referring to is in the King James (Authorised Version) of the bible, "know" is often used in the sense "to know sexually" i.e. to have sex with. It's archaic now, so if you asked someone "Do you know Guido van Rossum", no-one would think you were asking "Have you had sex with GvR"

_____________________________________________________________________
This message has been checked for all known viruses by the MessageLabs Virus Scanning Service.




From bokr at oz.net  Sat Jul  5 17:24:31 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 5 Jul 2003 21:24:31 GMT
Subject: A possible bug in python threading/time module?
References: <mailman.1057347547.21819.python-list@python.org> <c09aca51.0307050856.2ed130f9@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <be7fmf$f6u$0@216.39.172.122>

On 5 Jul 2003 09:56:35 -0700, vm_usenet at yahoo.com (vm_usenet) wrote:

>"Tim Peters" <tim.one at comcast.net> wrote in message news:<mailman.1057347547.21819.python-list at python.org>...
>> [Tim]
[...]
>
>I hope to see more mature people working on the Python project than
>Tim.
>
LOL ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From andrew.gregory at npl.co.uk  Wed Jul 30 07:34:58 2003
From: andrew.gregory at npl.co.uk (Andrew Gregory)
Date: 30 Jul 2003 04:34:58 -0700
Subject: Python 2.3 distutils with Mingw C++
Message-ID: <2830c89c.0307300334.4a365a81@posting.google.com>

In Python 2.2, I compiled some C++ code on Windows (MinGW compiler) to
create an extension using distutils and the following setup.py file:

from distutils.core import setup, Extension
setup (name = "_pysimple",
       version = "1.0",
       maintainer = "AG",
       maintainer_email = "xxx at xx.co.uk",
       description = "Sample Python C++ DLL",
       ext_modules = [Extension('_pysimple',
                     
extra_compile_args=['-O2','-march=i586','-malign-double'],
                      extra_link_args=['-mthread'],
                      library_dirs=['C:\\mingw\\lib'],
                      libraries=['supc++'], # if using iostreams etc.
use stdc++
                      sources=['pysimple_wrap.cxx'])])

Provided that certain C++ features such as templates were not used,
this would build ok using the gcc compiler (not g++), as supc++ is
linked to.
Command used is: python setup.py build --compiler=mingw32

In Python 2.3, distutils recognises the .cxx extension as C++ and
tries to compile with
  cc -mno-cygwin -shared etc.
resulting in "cc not found" error message. It should compile with
  c:\mingw\bin\gcc -mno-cygwin -shared etc.
or *much* better
  c:\mingw\bin\g++ -mno-cygwin -shared etc.

The quick fix is to copy the old distutils subdirectory from Python22
into Python23.

Andrew.



From max at alcyone.com  Wed Jul  2 18:16:04 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 15:16:04 -0700
Subject: Good code patterns in Python
References: <cb035744.0307010149.399df2eb@posting.google.com> <XevMa.4146$Vx2.2206981@newssvr28.news.prodigy.com> <3F0285F0.EDF697E3@alcyone.com> <6qllvh9oi3.fsf@salmakis.intevation.de>
Message-ID: <3F0359A4.3F0BE933@alcyone.com>

Bernhard Herzog wrote:

> Guido broke his silence at EuroPython: The ternary operator will not
> be
> added to Python.

As I said, it's hardly a big surprise.

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ Divorces are made in Heaven.
\__/  Oscar Wilde



From hokiegal99 at hotmail.com  Thu Jul 10 20:52:07 2003
From: hokiegal99 at hotmail.com (hokiegal99)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 20:52:07 -0400
Subject: more regexp
Message-ID: <bel1fh$9vp$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>

I can replace all spaces in filenames and directory names with this bit 
of code: (thanks to all who helped me get this!)

> fspaces = re.compile('[ ]')
> 
> for root, dirs, files in os.walk('/test/dir'): 
> for file in files:
> badchars = fspaces.findall(file) #find spaces
> newfile = ''
> for badchar in badchars:
> newfile = file.replace(badchar,'%')
> if newfile:
> newpath = os.path.join(root,newfile)
> oldpath = os.path.join(root,file)
> os.rename(oldpath,newpath)


> dspaces = re.compile('[ ]')
> 
> for root, dirs, files in os.walk('/test/dir'): 
> for dir in dirs:
> badchars = dspaces.findall(dir) #find spaces
> newdir = ''
> for badchar in badchars:
> newdir = dir.replace(badchar,'%')
> if newdir:
> newpath = os.path.join(root,newdir)
> oldpath = os.path.join(root,dir)
> os.rename(oldpath,newpath)

Now, I'd like to be able to search for the '%' character at the begining 
and the ending of filenames and dirs and remove them entirely. Could 
someone suggest a way to do this? Any tips are welcomed!




From tim.one at comcast.net  Sun Jul  6 23:54:48 2003
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2003 23:54:48 -0400
Subject: PEP idea. ( removing __slots__ )
In-Reply-To: <3f08984c$1_3@news1.vip.uk.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCMEHMENAB.tim.one@comcast.net>

[Martin v. L?wis]
>> No. Some classes have slots for efficiency, and their subclasses
>> have dictionaries for generality.
>>
>> Likewise, some classes have slots to save the dictionary for most
>> instances, but some instances may need additional attributes, in
>> which case Python creates the dictionary on-the-fly.

[simon place]
> I know subclasses can add a __dict__, but i really thought a class
> with __slots__ could not have a __dict__,

It can, but if you want that (I have a hard time imagining why ...), you
have to give it a __dict__ explicitly.

> doesn't the script below show this behavior?

It shows that a class with __slots__ won't grow a __dict__ by magic
(although a subclass of a class with __slots__ can grow a __dict__ by magic,
provided that the subclass doesn't itself define __slots__).

> PythonWin 2.3b2 (#43, Jun 29 2003, 16:43:04) [MSC v.1200 32 bit
> (Intel)] on win32.
> Portions Copyright 1994-2001 Mark Hammond (mhammond at skippinet.com.au)
> - see 'Help/About PythonWin' for further copyright information.
>  >>> class A(object):
> ... 	__slots__=['a']
> ...
>  >>> b=A()
>  >>> b
> <__main__.A object at 0x00EFABF0>
>  >>> b.__dict__
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>    File "<interactive input>", line 1, in ?
> AttributeError: 'A' object has no attribute '__dict__'
>  >>> b.a
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>    File "<interactive input>", line 1, in ?
> AttributeError: a
>  >>> b.a=1
>  >>> b.a
> 1
>  >>> b.b=1
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>    File "<interactive input>", line 1, in ?
> AttributeError: 'A' object has no attribute 'b'

Constrast with:

>>> class A(object):
...     __slots__ = 'a', '__dict__'  # NOTE:  __dict__ explicitly given
...
>>> b = A()
>>> b
<__main__.A object at 0x006AD730>
>>> b.__dict__
{}
>>> b.a
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
AttributeError: a
>>> b.a = 1
>>> b.a
1
>>> b.b = 1
>>> b.b
1
>>>





From martin at v.loewis.de  Fri Jul 25 01:17:07 2003
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-15?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 25 Jul 2003 07:17:07 +0200
Subject: Python 2.3C1 Fails to build ?
References: <z82Ua.71562$0v4.4775810@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>
Message-ID: <m3smov6v8s.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

"Holden Caulfield" <phoebe_1 at no_spam.worldnet.att.net> writes:

>   The integer operation result is out of range.
> 
>    PT(0), PT(1), PT(2), PT(3), PT(4), PT(5), PT(6), PT(7)
[...]
> Any ideas what is going on?

I'd say there is a bug in the compiler. PT(0) is PTA(0), PTA(0),
which is

((poolp )((uchar *)&(usedpools[2*(0)]) - 2*sizeof(block *)))

Assuming that "2*(0)*" and "2*sizeof(block*)" are all not out of
range, abouth the only remaining operation is the subtraction, which
is of type "uchar* - size_t". This is, however, not an integer
operation, but a pointer operation.

You might want to try similar expressions in a separate program, to
narrow down the problem further.

Regards,
Martin




From NAIVS-CAPETOWNZACAPEX01 at verisign.com  Mon Jul  7 04:40:59 2003
From: NAIVS-CAPETOWNZACAPEX01 at verisign.com (GroupShield for Exchange (ZACAPEX01))
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 10:40:59 +0200 
Subject: ALERT -  GroupShield ticket number OA1571_1057567254_ZACAPEX01_3 
	was generated
Message-ID: <AC7E8D43F95DD041A175D19F74AAB294015B3BAB@zacapex01.cpt.thawte.com>

Action Taken:
The attachment was quarantined from the message and replaced with a text
file informing the recipient of the action taken.

To:
ispsales at thawte.com <ispsales at thawte.com>

From:
python-list at python.org <python-list at python.org>

Sent:
1941043072,29574243

Subject:
Re: Application

Attachment Details:-

Attachment Name: your_details.zip
File: your_details.zip
Infected? No
Repaired? No
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From akhleung at earthlink.net  Thu Jul 31 14:40:33 2003
From: akhleung at earthlink.net (Aaron Leung)
Date: 31 Jul 2003 11:40:33 -0700
Subject: Python's biggest compromises
References: <899f842.0307310555.56134f71@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <96dcb58a.0307311040.7fb17890@posting.google.com>

It seems to me that a big compromise/feature is that all kinds of
namespaces are usually represented by dictionaries, and that Python
exposes this fact to the programmer.  This would seem to limit the
possible optimizations that can easily be performed by a compiler.

BTW, I have only read about Python out of interest, and haven't
actually used it for anything, so I hope my remark isn't ignorant.

Best regards,
Aaron



From jason.orendorff at lumigent.com  Mon Jul 21 14:16:57 2003
From: jason.orendorff at lumigent.com (Jason Orendorff)
Date: 21 Jul 2003 11:16:57 -0700
Subject: path module
References: <1057651068.5348.386.camel@lothlorien>	 <20030708113219.H6906@prim.han.de> <mailman.1057686613.6463.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <11234c14.0307211016.344d40bc@posting.google.com>

I wrote the 'path' module at:
    http://www.jorendorff.com/articles/python/path

There was some discussion on it here:
    http://groups.google.com/groups?th=42ab4db337b60ce3

Just a few comments:

Ian and Holger wondered why 'path' should subclass 'str'.  It's because
a path is a string.  Benefit: you can pass 'path' objects to functions
that expect strings (like functions in 'win32file').  I find this
really useful in practice.

I agree with Just that 'path' shouldn't override '__iter__()'.  I'll
change this eventually.

I think Just is the first to argue that 'path / filename' is confusing.
I find it intuitive.  Other people have chosen / for this purpose,
independently:  see the O'Reilly book _Python Cookbook_ [1], recipe 4.17,
and the Boost path object [2].

I do believe 'path' should be in the standard library (if not builtin).
I enjoy it and I use it all the time.  My perception is that the Python
core dev team doesn't see any particular need for it.  If anyone wants me
to, I'll write the PEP.

    for f in path('/music').walkfiles('*.mp3'):
        play_mp3(f)

Cheers,
Jason

[1] http://safari.oreilly.com/?xmlid=0-596-00167-3
[2] http://www.boost.org/libs/filesystem/doc/path.htm#operator_slash



From shangius at yahoo.com  Fri Jul 25 06:45:03 2003
From: shangius at yahoo.com (Sami Hangaslammi)
Date: 25 Jul 2003 03:45:03 -0700
Subject: generator function within a generator function doesn't execute?
References: <20030724190941.18070.00000520@mb-m17.aol.com>
Message-ID: <6298355.0307250245.530c5656@posting.google.com>

thedustbustr at aol.com (TheDustbustr) wrote in message news:<20030724190941.18070.00000520 at mb-m17.aol.com>...
> <code>
<snip>
> </code>

> However, when run, the sleep function doesn't execute.  It doesn't even print
> "In Sleep".  It never gets called, even though I say sleep(1.5) in cutscene(). 
> Run it for yourself if you don't believe me.

Calling sleep(2.5) isn't supposed to run anything. It just creates a
generator object. Calling it from within another generator makes no
difference. You need to manually unwind the sleep generator to your
scheduler, so instead of

sleep(2.5)

do

for x in sleep(2.5): yield x



From bokr at oz.net  Mon Jul 28 15:36:21 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 28 Jul 2003 19:36:21 GMT
Subject: floating point range generator
References: <Xns93B0F0F1A58A2cpl19ghumspamgourmet@62.153.159.134> <oA2Oa.30893$C83.2655519@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <7xwue3lbzy.fsf_-_@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <7O%Ua.8994$AO6.2045@nwrdny02.gnilink.net> <bg3mos$9o5$0@216.39.172.122> <PBdVa.8513$cM6.8178@nwrdny01.gnilink.net> <7x65lmzf20.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <bg3tvl$lu5$0@216.39.172.122>

On 28 Jul 2003 11:23:03 -0700, Paul Rubin <http://phr.cx at NOSPAM.invalid> wrote:

>Carl Banks <imbosol at aerojockey.com> writes:
>> In the interests of practicality beats purity, when you're
>> interpolating (instead of stepping as in range) you should include the
>> final endpoint.  In my experience, when when you divide a segment into
>> intervals, you almost always want to include both endpoints.
>
>I think you're right about this, but it goes against the Python notion
>of a "range" function, so an frange that includes both endpoints
>should be called something different, maybe "fstep" or something like
>that.  For what I was doing, the frange that I posted did the job.
>
>I see now that that the problem is subtle enough that IMO, a fully
>worked out solution should be written and included in the Python
>library or at least the Python cookbook.

How about if we indicate the kind of interval, e.g.,

 >>> def interiter(start, stop, n_intervals, ends='[]'):
 ...     fn=float(n_intervals)
 ...     for i in xrange(ends[0]=='(', n_intervals+(ends[1]==']')):
 ...         yield ((n_intervals-i)/fn)*start + (i/fn)*stop
 ...
 >>>

 >>> for f in interiter(0, 8, 8): print f,
 ...
 0.0 1.0 2.0 3.0 4.0 5.0 6.0 7.0 8.0
 >>> for f in interiter(0, 8, 8, ends='[)'): print f,
 ...
 1.0 2.0 3.0 4.0 5.0 6.0 7.0
 >>> for f in interiter(0, 8, 8, ends='(]'): print f,
 ...
 1.0 2.0 3.0 4.0 5.0 6.0 7.0 8.0
 >>> for f in interiter(0, 8, 8, ends='()'): print f,
 ...
 1.0 2.0 3.0 4.0 5.0 6.0 7.0
 >>> for f in interiter(0, 8, 8, ends='[]'): print f,
 ...
 0.0 1.0 2.0 3.0 4.0 5.0 6.0 7.0 8.0


Regards,
Bengt Richter



From Juha.Autero at iki.fi  Thu Jul 31 03:18:43 2003
From: Juha.Autero at iki.fi (Juha Autero)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 10:18:43 +0300
Subject: time, calendar, datetime, etc
References: <153fa67.0307300326.45a29380@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <87smon88q4.fsf@jautero.no-ip.org>

kylotan at hotmail.com (Kylotan) writes:

> PS. I use 'time.strptime(myTime, '%a %b %d %H:%M:%S %Y')' as a
> reverse-asctime(), and was surprised that I couldn't find this wrapped
> in a function in any of the modules. Maybe such a function would be
> considered for future addition?

That's probably because it's easier to do it with time.strptime(). From 
documentation:
      The format parameter uses the same directives as those used by
      strftime(); it defaults to "%a %b %d %H:%M:%S %Y" which matches
      the formatting returned by ctime()

Which means that time.strptime() without format parameter acts as
reverse-asctime().

Maybe documentation should state "which matches the formatting
returned by ctime() and asctime()" since both functions use the same
formatting. 
-- 
Juha Autero
http://www.iki.fi/jautero/
Eschew obscurity!





From rganesan at myrealbox.com  Tue Jul 29 08:20:44 2003
From: rganesan at myrealbox.com (Ganesan R)
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 17:50:44 +0530
Subject: How to detect typos in Python programs
References: <ZPaUa.6$gZ.133@news.oracle.com> <3F214977.AEB088C8@engcorp.com> <x+VI/ks/K/yd089yn@the-wire.com> <HigUa.9$gZ.31@news.oracle.com> <877k64c0qo.fsf@pobox.com> <vnWUa.7$Sq2.194@news.oracle.com> <3F26597F.9B589160@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <our849a5ib.fsf@andlx-anamika.cisco.com>

>>>>> "Peter" == Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> writes:

> You don't understand the dynamic nature of Python if you
> think this is something that is either easy or 100% reliable.

> Very contrived but instructive example:

> def func(x):
>    pass

> import sys
> setattr(sys, 'ab' + 'ost', func)

> stick-that-in-your-static-analyzer-and-smoke-it-ly y'rs

The dynamic nature of Python is definitely a problem but there are some
obvious workarounds. For example a static analyzer can take an option that
says "assume standard modules are not modified". This is probably good
enough for 90% of the cases.

Ganesan

-- 
Ganesan R



From eger at cc.gatech.edu  Tue Jul 15 15:51:20 2003
From: eger at cc.gatech.edu (Modular Forms Boy)
Date: 15 Jul 2003 19:51:20 GMT
Subject: PyErr_SetString() != raise ?
References: <bevkb3$mg8$1@solaria.cc.gatech.edu> <94974e1a.0307150937.5999593f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bf1lvo$poa$1@solaria.cc.gatech.edu>

David Eger wrote:
:> My exception disappears!

to which Paul Simmonds <psimmo60 at hotmail.com> replied:
: This part should work fine. Try looking back through the function
: calls, layer by layer, making sure each function in turn tests for a
: NULL return, and propagates it back to the interpreter. Without a
: little more code it's tough to say exactly what's wrong.

I've found the place where my exception gets swallowed.  Thanks for the
pointer!  The problem is in the SWIG wrappers:  I'm taking discussion
to that list: swig at cs.uchicago.edu.

-Eger David



From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Jul 15 17:18:30 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 17:18:30 -0400
Subject: Thread suddenly stops in NT Service
References: <4150f6c8.0307151133.7dab4b25@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3F146FA6.17C0DE7A@engcorp.com>

Matt Rapoport wrote:
> 
> I'm running an NT service with a thread.  The thread performs a
> calculation every so often and appends the number to a text file.
> Every so often the thread just stops - or so it seems.  The text file
> stops getting numbers added to it but the service is still running and
> no errors have been thrown.  I'm quite sure that the code would catch
> an error and post it to the event viewer if one were arising.
> 
> The only other relevant points I can think of are that the thread runs
> a while 1: loop and is set to run as a Daemon.  The service waits only
> for the stop command.  It doesn't seem to be operating system specific
> (happens on both XP and 2000).  It doesn't seem to be file size
> specific, it stops at various file sizes ranging from 5K - 50K.  It
> doesn't seem to be time specific - sometimes it'll stop after about a
> day.  Sometimes it'll stop after two days.

Is there any evidence to counter the theory that the thread is 
simply throwing an exception, terminating, and the main thread is 
continuing to run, unaware of the problem?

-Peter



From printers at sendme.cz  Thu Jul  3 16:39:32 2003
From: printers at sendme.cz (A)
Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 22:39:32 +0200
Subject: CGI script is in plain text
Message-ID: <3F04B0A4.32692.3596CD0@localhost>

I have a webhosting account with one company.
They have Apache running.
When  I start CGI script from a web browser, the result is plain text( the copy of that script)
I can not access
httpd.conf
file so I changed
.htaccess
file. I put  into it

Options +ExecCGI
Sethandler /usr/bin/python.exe .py

but  the result is the same, plain text
Can you please help?
Thanks
Ladislav






From http  Mon Jul 28 14:23:03 2003
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 28 Jul 2003 11:23:03 -0700
Subject: floating point range generator
References: <Xns93B0F0F1A58A2cpl19ghumspamgourmet@62.153.159.134> <oA2Oa.30893$C83.2655519@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <7xwue3lbzy.fsf_-_@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <7O%Ua.8994$AO6.2045@nwrdny02.gnilink.net> <bg3mos$9o5$0@216.39.172.122> <PBdVa.8513$cM6.8178@nwrdny01.gnilink.net>
Message-ID: <7x65lmzf20.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Carl Banks <imbosol at aerojockey.com> writes:
> In the interests of practicality beats purity, when you're
> interpolating (instead of stepping as in range) you should include the
> final endpoint.  In my experience, when when you divide a segment into
> intervals, you almost always want to include both endpoints.

I think you're right about this, but it goes against the Python notion
of a "range" function, so an frange that includes both endpoints
should be called something different, maybe "fstep" or something like
that.  For what I was doing, the frange that I posted did the job.

I see now that that the problem is subtle enough that IMO, a fully
worked out solution should be written and included in the Python
library or at least the Python cookbook.



From nav+posts at bandersnatch.org  Tue Jul  8 11:14:37 2003
From: nav+posts at bandersnatch.org (Nick Vargish)
Date: 08 Jul 2003 11:14:37 -0400
Subject: path module
References: <mailman.1057672334.17929.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m31xx1oxsy.fsf@tanelorn.bandersnatch.org>

Just van Rossum <just at xs4all.nl> writes:

> (Did I mention that / usually means divide in Python? ;-)

I believe you did... But doesn't % usually mean modulo in Python?

:^)

Nick

--
# sigmask  |  0.2  |  2003-01-07  |  public domain  |  feed this to a python
print reduce(lambda x,y:x+chr(ord(y)-1),'Ojdl!Wbshjti!=obwAqbusjpu/ofu?','')



From theller at python.net  Tue Jul 29 14:10:06 2003
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 20:10:06 +0200
Subject: Cannot register dll created using "py2exe --com-dll"
References: <57de9986.0307290052.688e54c5@posting.google.com> <467c9d67.0307290640.4f7d87b1@posting.google.com>
 <vid2nomiq77uff@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <1xw9dx1d.fsf@python.net>

"Jordan Tucker" <jtuc at ev1.net> writes:

> A fix that seems to work (at least it lets DllRegisterServer succeed)
> is inserting the following before the aforementioned line:
>
>       scriptDir = None
>       if hasattr(sys, 'argv'):
>         scriptDir = os.path.split(sys.argv[0])[0]
>
> This allows registration, but now when I try to instantiate one of the
> objects defined in my dll from the interpreter, I get the following
> error:
>
> Fatal Python error: PyThreadState_Get: no current thread
>
> This also happens with the server example included. Do I have to use
> something other than win32com.client.Dispatch to connect to an inproc
> server from a dll? I think I've used it before to do the same thing
> with non-py2exe dlls.

I don't know anything about the first error you get (the argv not set
problem), but the second is a known bug: You cannot use the python dll
com server from a Python client (at least if the client uses the same
Python version). This is because of the difficulties managing the
threadstate correctly. I hope Mark or I will be able to fix this bug
soon (in 2.3, with the help of PEP 311 it should be possible).

In the sample zip there's a VB script included to test the server, run
it in a console window with cscript.exe like this: 'cscript test_interp.vbs'.

Thomas



From andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au  Sat Jul 12 05:12:18 2003
From: andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au (Andrew MacIntyre)
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 19:12:18 +1000 (EST)
Subject: Accessing and updating global variables among several modules
In-Reply-To: <a12f6af8.0307111938.4d7a9851@posting.google.com>
References: <a12f6af8.0307111938.4d7a9851@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20030712190624.Y4962@bullseye.apana.org.au>

[posted & mailed]
On Sat, 11 Jul 2003, Fuming Wang wrote:

> However, when I modify these global variables in one module, the other
> modules would not see the changes.  Any one has any suggestions? ( I
> don't want to use from A import *)

Use a container, and change the container's contents, eg make the global
"variable" a dictionary, and access the different "global variables" via
the dictionary's keys.

What you're seeing is due to Python's variables being references to
values, rather than actual values.  With the container approach, all the
references will still point to the container, even though the contents
change.  In fact, Python itself does pretty much all name lookup through
dictionaries.

--
Andrew I MacIntyre                     "These thoughts are mine alone..."
E-mail: andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au  (pref) | Snail: PO Box 370
        andymac at pcug.org.au             (alt) |        Belconnen  ACT  2616
Web:    http://www.andymac.org/               |        Australia




From bokr at oz.net  Fri Jul 18 14:35:42 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 18 Jul 2003 18:35:42 GMT
Subject: A challenge to the ASCII proponents.
References: <mailman.1058278343.23104.python-list@python.org> <bf167a$pvt$1@panix2.panix.com> <ufzl7rdno.fsf@online.no> <3F142A58.80426AA4@hotmail.com> <2259b0e2.0307161620.4a9353f1@posting.google.com> <Xns93BB246FDDBCFJanC@213.118.75.80> <3F168011.3AEB3EFC@hotmail.com> <bf7ohs$jcg$0@216.39.172.122> <mailman.1058511510.7019.python-list@python.org> <HBF.20030718w6de@bombur.uio.no>
Message-ID: <bf9elu$qsu$0@216.39.172.122>

On 18 Jul 2003 09:30:32 +0200, Hallvard B Furuseth <h.b.furuseth(nospam)@usit.uio(nospam).no> wrote:

>Oren Tirosh wrote:
>>On Fri, Jul 18, 2003 at 03:11:56AM +0000, Bengt Richter wrote:
>
>>> <META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; CHARSET=iso-8859-7">
>
>Needs to be charset=utf-8.  iso-8859-7 has no character number 947.
You're right. I think the iso-8859-7 just served as a font hint, in effect.
You can't leave out the <META ... line on my browser (NS4.5, english font defaults)
but IWG one could with Greek defaults.  IWG everything is converted to
windows wchars internally either way, according to some best-guess rules
if things aren't consistent.

If we add a space and the character  &#1046; after the Greek, the difference
will show up: with utf-8 you get the Cyrillic, and with iso-8859-7 you get a question mark.
(or at least you do with NS4.5). Just tried IE5 -- it seems to fake it either way, but screws up
the presentation with a change in font weight after two characters, and then spaces between chars.
Don't know what that's about. I don't use IE5, (comma required ;-) normally.
>
>>> <h1>&#947;(...)
>
>> Actually, you don't need the "CHARSET=iso-8859-7". It would be
>> required if you used the bytes 227, 223, 227, 237, 249, 243, 234, 249
>> to represent the characters. With numeric character references you can
>> embed any character from the UCS repertoire regardless of the charset
>> used.
>
>&#<num>; seems to mean character number NUM in the current character
>set, not in UCS.  At least on NS 4.79.
That seems to be confirmed by the Cyrillic experiment above, now at least
for NS4.5 and NS4.79.

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From Vincent.Raaijmakers at ge.com  Thu Jul 31 10:08:14 2003
From: Vincent.Raaijmakers at ge.com (Raaijmakers, Vincent (IndSys, GE Interlogix))
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 09:08:14 -0500
Subject: SQL2000 database vs python
Message-ID: <55939F05720D954E9602518B77F6127F02F46920@FTWMLVEM01.e2k.ad.ge.com>

Ok I was too happy.

mssqldb doesn't help me to connect my python app on a linux OS to a sql2000 (windows os) database.
I can't even compile the package, I guess it is missing sybase stuff (sybdb.h and sybfront.h), 
which is correct because I don't have that database.
Also, mssqldb supports ms sql server 7.0, my hope is that that won't be a problem in using ms sql 2000.

Pfew, there goes my hope.

Vincent

-----Original Message-----
From: Gerhard H?ring [mailto:gh at ghaering.de]
Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2003 8:53 AM
To: Raaijmakers, Vincent (IndSys, GE Interlogix)
Cc: python-list at python.org
Subject: Re: SQL2000 database vs python


Raaijmakers, Vincent (IndSys, GE Interlogix) wrote:
> Can someone tell me if there is a module out for using a sql2000 database within python?
> My python application (runs on Linux) already uses mysql but now I need also to talk to a sql2000 database on another machine.
> 
> Any suggestions? www.python.org, google couldn't help me.

http://www.object-craft.com.au/projects/mssql/

-- Gerhard




From cookedm+news at physics.mcmaster.ca  Sun Jul 20 23:08:57 2003
From: cookedm+news at physics.mcmaster.ca (David M. Cooke)
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 23:08:57 -0400
Subject: distutils.core not in Debian python2.2 package
References: <pfjSa.730$zu1.8428@reggie.win.bright.net> <qnkbrvq2glk.fsf@arbutus.physics.mcmaster.ca>
 <bAuSa.747$zu1.8518@reggie.win.bright.net>
Message-ID: <qnk7k6c37au.fsf@arbutus.physics.mcmaster.ca>

At some point, Kent Tenney <kent at NOSPAMspringfed.com> wrote:

> David M. Cooke wrote:
>> At some point, Kent Tenney <kent at NOSPAMspringfed.com> wrote:
>>
>>>Howdy,
>>>
>>>I did;
>>># apt-get install python2.2
>>>
>>># python
>>>Python 2.2.1
>>>...
>>> >>>
>>>
>>>then checked docutils out of CVS
>>>and did;
>>>
>>>docutils# python ./setup.py install
>>>
>>>ImportError: No module named distutils.core
>>>
>>>How do I install distutils?
>> Install the python2.2-dev package.
>
> It surprises me to find distutils in a package described as:
>
> "Header files and a static library for Python (v2.2)"
>
> Kent


Except in the extended description, where it says
"""
 Includes the python distutils, which were in a separate package up to
 version 1.5.2.
"""

In general, if you need to compile, or develop, you need the
corresponding *-dev packages.

-- 
|>|\/|<
/--------------------------------------------------------------------------\
|David M. Cooke
|cookedm(at)physics(dot)mcmaster(dot)ca



From milkchug89 at hotmail.com  Wed Jul 30 16:20:46 2003
From: milkchug89 at hotmail.com (Michael Sampson)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 15:20:46 -0500
Subject: Misuse of <tab>
References: <3f27f0e3$1@news.broadpark.no>
Message-ID: <3f28287e$0$103$8f4e7992@newsreader.goldengate.net>

How does the IDLE that comes with the latest release of python handle this?
When it automaticly indents does it do it with spaces or tabs?  If you hit
tab in the IDLE will it just put 5 spaces in for you?




"Gisle Vanem" <giva at users.sourceforge.net> wrote in message
news:3f27f0e3$1 at news.broadpark.no...
> I'm a .py newbie and fascinated by the simplicity of formatting.
> No need for {} as in Perl etc. But the misuse of <tab> that many
> .py writers do makes it hard to understand how a script operates.
>
> E.g.
>
> def main():
>    terminate = 0
>    def foo():
>        line = sys.stdin.readline()
> <tab>  try:
>         bar()
>     except:
>         terminate = 1
>
> main()
>
> Now, with an editor with different tab-settings it's difficult to see
where
> the try statement belongs. In 'def main()' or in 'def foo()' ?
> I'm confused, please enlighten me.
>
> --gv
>
>





From irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl  Wed Jul 30 18:24:30 2003
From: irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 00:24:30 +0200
Subject: funny  slashdot quote regarding python 2.3 release
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1059581093.19597.python-list@python.org>
References: <3f279da0$0$13799$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net>	<3f27b0a9$0$49104$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl> <mailman.1059581093.19597.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3f28459f$0$49105$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

John Hunter wrote:

>>>>>>"Irmen" == Irmen de Jong <irmen at nl.homeip.net> writes:

I don't know where that came from but that is most definately
not my email address...

> processing.  I found that the Numeric version was about 20% faster
> than the FORTRAN, in part because there were some inefficiencies in
> his hand coded FORTRAN routines.  
> 
> Which emphasizes that it's often better to use a well tested,
> optimized extension than to code it yourself in a compiled language.

If it's available, and can do the job, I agree 100% with you.
This will also, in the end, very likely result in a shorter
development time because you are not writing from scratch.

--Irmen




From intentionally at blank.co.uk  Sun Jul 13 10:55:27 2003
From: intentionally at blank.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 15:55:27 +0100
Subject: removing spaces from front and end of filenames
References: <beqdf0$m2q$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <34r2hvgiq1oe662ummbqrhn25vlfekbc50@4ax.com>

On Sat, 12 Jul 2003 21:42:56 -0400, hokiegal99
<hokiegal99 at hotmail.com> wrote:

>This script works as I expect, except for the last section. I want the 
>last section to actually remove all spaces from the front and/or end of 
>filenames. For example, a file that was named "  test  " would be 
>renamed "test" (the 2 spaces before and after the filename removed). Any 
>suggestions on how to do this?

...

>     for file in files:
>         fname = (file)
>         fname = fname.strip( )
>	print fname

The indentation here looks suspicious. It is a very bad idea to indent
some lines with tabs and others with spaces - use one method or the
other.

Also, you are not saving the stripped versions of the strings
anywhere.

BTW - the strip method doesn't change the object in place, so I don't
see the point of the 'fname = (file)' line. I certainly don't
understand the brackets. In fact, why not just...

  files = [i.strip() for i in files]

My best guess is that you expected the 'file' variable to reference
into the list, but this won't happen - its one of those things that
depends on whether the values are mutable or immutable, and with for
loops it's the type of the items within the list (ie the strings) that
is important. Strings are immutable.

Yes, this mutable/immutable thing is a pain :-(

Anyway, if you don't like list comprehensions, you'll need to loop
through the indices using something like...

  for i in range(len(files)) :
    files[i] = files[i].strip ()

Hope this helps.




From hwlgw at hotmail.com  Thu Jul  3 17:46:42 2003
From: hwlgw at hotmail.com (Will Stuyvesant)
Date: 3 Jul 2003 14:46:42 -0700
Subject: XML Validation with Python
References: <cb035744.0307020901.472c3573@posting.google.com> <3F042045.C5CB0248@hotmail.com> <cb035744.0307030955.1e4f3bfe@posting.google.com> <3F0474F5.FD7E57F3@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <cb035744.0307031346.227c024@posting.google.com>

> [Alan Kennedy]
> ... interesting links and comments ...
> Are you sure that XML validation-parsing is the right solution for
> your problem? There may be simpler ways.

We have defined a new XML vocabulary with a DTD.  I offered to make a
webservice so everybody can validate their XML files based on this
DTD.  For this I use CGI with Python 2.1.1 and I have no web master
privileges.

The idea of web applications is nice in that you do not have to code
GUIs anymore: you can do pretty much everything with (X)HTML. 
Sometimes you have to rethink your UI so it is possible to give every
user state a URI.  A big plus is that everybody can now use your
application.  And you can do more than I thought before, for example
users can send files from their computer with type=FILE fields in
forms.  And for development you can just download Apache and install
it on your laptop and configure it such that everything is exactly the
same as on the target website (#!/usr/bin/python...means install their
python version in C:\usr\bin on you laptop :-)

The big problem with web applications is all the permissions you need
to install, compile, configure, etc.  For Python CGI this means you
are stuck with some Python version and you realize how important the
Python Standard Library is.

-- 
Experience is what allows you to recognize a mistake the second time
you make it.



From bokr at oz.net  Sun Jul 27 13:36:17 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 27 Jul 2003 17:36:17 GMT
Subject: Seeing next character in an file
References: <CDFUa.42241$wk4.27296@twister.nyroc.rr.com> <pan.2003.07.27.03.01.52.505599@rochester.rr.com>
Message-ID: <bg12ih$70l$0@216.39.172.122>

On Sun, 27 Jul 2003 02:58:13 GMT, "Keith Jones" <kjones9 at rochester.rr.com> wrote:

>On Sun, 27 Jul 2003 01:09:54 +0000, Grumfish wrote:
>
>> Is there a way to see the next character of an input file object without 
>> advancing the position in the file?
>
>
>To do this, you can do the following:
>
>fin = file('myfile')
>
>... 
>
>char = fin.read(1)
>fin.seek(-1,1)     # set the file's current position back a character
>
Warning, though: this is very iffy on windows unless you have opened the file
in binary. E.g.,

 >>> print >> file('ends_in_windows_EOL.txt','w'), 'Ends in windows EOL here:'

Look at it in binary:
 >>> file('ends_in_windows_EOL.txt','rb').read()
 'Ends in windows EOL here:\r\n'

Cooked:
 >>> file('ends_in_windows_EOL.txt','r').read()
 'Ends in windows EOL here:\n'

Now try to seek back past the apparent \n single character and one more (2)
so we can read the ':'
 >>> f = file('ends_in_windows_EOL.txt')
 >>> f.seek(-2, 2)
 >>> f.read()
 '\n'

Hm. That's a representation of reading the last two characters in cooked mode.
Apparently the seek positioned us to read '\r\n', not a cooked ':\n'

Look at the same in binary:
 >>> f = file('ends_in_windows_EOL.txt', 'rb')
 >>> f.seek(-2, 2)
 >>> f.read()
 '\r\n'

The last two are the windows EOL. Seeking -2 in cooked mode is not positioning at ':\n'
as we can see in the binary:

 >>> f.seek(-3, 2)
 >>> f.read()
 ':\r\n'

[...]

So if you're going to seek/tell, best to do it in binary, and deal with the platform dependent EOLs.

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Wed Jul 30 17:10:30 2003
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 16:10:30 -0500
Subject: Syntax: pointers versus value
In-Reply-To: <3F27F673.3000801@mathstat.concordia.ca> (Danny Castonguay's
 message of "Wed, 30 Jul 2003 12:46:43 -0400")
References: <3F27F673.3000801@mathstat.concordia.ca>
Message-ID: <m2d6frlnzt.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

>>>>> "Danny" == Danny Castonguay <castong at mathstat.concordia.ca> writes:

    Danny> I want to avoid listA's value to change. 

There are several ways

  listB = listA[:]

  listB = [x for x in listA]

  import copy
  listB = copy.copy(listA)
  listB = copy.deepcopy(listA)

These don't all do the same thing, but all satisfy the example you
posted, eg

    >>> listA = [1 ,2]
    >>> listB = listA[:]
    >>> listB.append(3)
    >>> listA
    [1, 2]

So far so good, but consider this case

    >>> listA = [[],1]
    >>> listB = listA[:]
    >>> listB[0].append(12)  # changing the list at listB[0]
    >>> listB
    [[12], 1]
    >>> listA
    [[12], 1]

Sneaky, eh?  So the 'listB = listA[:]' made a copy of the list, but
not of the elements of the list.  This is a shallow copy, and you
should get the same behavior from copy.copy.  

Note that this is related to mutable and immutable objects in python.
In the example above, I didn't replace the first item of the list, I
changed it.  Since both listA and listB contained the same object as
their first element, changing one changes the other.  If I had
replaced that object in listB, nothing would have happened to listA

    >>> listA = [[],1]
    >>> listB = listA[:]
    >>> listB[0] = 12   # replacing the object, not changing it
    >>> listB
    [12, 1]
    >>> listA
    [[], 1]


If you want to avoid this, use deepcopy.

    >>> import copy
    >>> listA = [[],1]
    >>> listB = copy.deepcopy(listA)
    >>> listB[0].append(12)
    >>> listB
    [[12], 1]
    >>> listA
    [[], 1]

The behavior of mutable objects bites everyone a few times when they
begin learning python, so welcome to the club!

John Hunter




From barry at python.org  Thu Jul 24 23:01:05 2003
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: 24 Jul 2003 23:01:05 -0400
Subject: RELEASED Python 2.3c2
Message-ID: <1059102065.12996.22.camel@anthem>

Python 2.3c2 is the second and last release candidate for Python 2.3. 
There have been a bunch of bug fixes and memory leak plugs since the
first release candidate, but no new features.  As described in PEP 283,
Python 2.3 final will be released before the end of July 2003.  We are
planning for Tuesday 29-Jul-2003 if everything looks good.

We highly encourage everyone to rigorously test this release candidate. 
Only critical bug fixes will be allowed from here to the final release,
but we want this release to be as stable as possible.

Highlights since rc1 include:

- It is now possible to import from zipfiles containing additional
  data bytes before the zip compatible archive.  Zipfiles containing a
  comment at the end are still unsupported.

- Fixed leaks in pyexpat and locale, and a long standing bug in the
  parser module.

- The MacOSX build is now built with -mno-fused-madd to fix
  test_coercion on Panther (OSX 10.3).

For more highlights, see http://www.python.org/2.3/highlights.html

Other new stuff since Python 2.2:

- Many new and improved library modules, e.g. sets, heapq, datetime,
  textwrap, optparse, logging, bsddb, bz2, tarfile,
  ossaudiodev, and a new random number generator based on the highly
  acclaimed Mersenne Twister algorithm (with a period of 2**19937-1!).

- New builtin enumerate(): an iterator yielding (index, item) pairs.

- Extended slices, e.g. "hello"[::-1] returns "olleh".

- Universal newlines mode for reading files (converts \r, \n and \r\n
  all into \n).

- Source code encoding declarations.  (PEP 263)

- Import from zip files.  (PEP 273 and PEP 302)

- FutureWarning issued for "unsigned" operations on ints.  (PEP 237)

- Faster list.sort() is now stable.

- Unicode filenames on Windows.

- Karatsuba long multiplication (running time O(N**1.58) instead of
  O(N**2)).

To report problems, use the SourceForge bug tracker:

  http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=5470&atid=105470

brought-to-you-by-the-letter-'D'-for-drifty-ly y'rs,
-Barry






From utopia_2020 at hotmail.com  Tue Jul  1 12:31:39 2003
From: utopia_2020 at hotmail.com (Ram)
Date: 1 Jul 2003 09:31:39 -0700
Subject: threads and os.spawnlp on Linux
References: <b097e65a.0306301237.652c3d00@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <b097e65a.0307010831.6d86a62d@posting.google.com>

Some more info to add on ... the problem seems that if some system
call fails (or times out) in the os.system or os.spawnlp, then it
never returns back the execution context.

The following also causes similar results as before if the IP address
pinged is unreachable, but if it is a reachable IP, it returns
correctly. The problem occurs only if the os.system is inside the
thread class.

import os
import threading
import time

class Child(threading.Thread):
        def __init__(self):
                threading.Thread.__init__(self)

        def run(self):
                # Pinging some unreachable IP
                os.system("ping -c 2 192.168.1.55") 
                print "done"

if __name__ == '__main__':
        t = Child()
        t.start()

Thanks
Ram



From ulope at gmx.de  Tue Jul 15 18:29:04 2003
From: ulope at gmx.de (Ulrich Petri)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 00:29:04 +0200
Subject: Accessing an instance's __init__ args from outside the class
References: <sfAQa.21645$O55.673402@wagner.videotron.net> <Xns93B8AC76381A5duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1> <RKCQa.27757$O55.714325@wagner.videotron.net>
Message-ID: <bf1v4o$aagro$1@ID-67890.news.uni-berlin.de>

"Alexander Eberts" <alex_eberts at videotron.ca> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:RKCQa.27757$O55.714325 at wagner.videotron.net...
> Duncan,
>
> Thanks for your response - much appreciated. Do you know how the python
> interpreter handles *args and **kwargs passed to a class's __init__
method?
> (maybe the better question is "what section in the python docs describes
how
> class args are handled" :)
>

They are handled exactly as they would be in any other method. It seems you
have a bit of a misconception on how the __init__ method works!?

Ciao Ulrich

PS: To post an answer above the aswered text is not exactly liked on the
(use)net.





From alanmk at hotmail.com  Sun Jul  6 15:05:56 2003
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Sun, 06 Jul 2003 20:05:56 +0100
Subject: absolute beginners question about API documentation
References: <be9nn3$2k0j3$1@ID-47851.news.dfncis.de> <be9pdo$2kjrj$1@ID-139865.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <3F087314.D8F79BC6@hotmail.com>

Dave Kuhlman wrote:

> If you are asking about the *Python* API, then look here:
> 
>     http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/typesmapping.html
> 
> If you are asking about the C API (which is less likely but
> possible), then look here:
> 
>     http://www.python.org/doc/current/api/dictObjects.html

I think that for completeness, and given the OPs java background, it's
probably worth mentioning the Java API to the jython interpreter as
well

http://www.jython.org/docs/javadoc/index.html

-- 
alan kennedy
-----------------------------------------------------
check http headers here: http://xhaus.com/headers
email alan:              http://xhaus.com/mailto/alan



From http  Mon Jul 21 19:26:52 2003
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 21 Jul 2003 16:26:52 -0700
Subject: Voting Project Needs Python People
References: <LDVSa.14955$Mc.1126731@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <xqxwuebfyym.fsf@cola2.ca.boeing.com> <bfhhgq$5lu$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net> <xqx7k6b36r8.fsf@cola2.ca.boeing.com> <jk_Sa.113364$Io.9707082@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <7x65lv31hf.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

"Alan Dechert" <adechert at earthlink.net> writes:
> > 1. Software chooses 1% of votes to change (big enough to have an
> >    effect, small enough to maybe go unnoticed).
> >
> I don't think this is a possible scenario.  However, it brings up an
> interesting test for our full blown study (keep in mind, we're trying to
> focus on getting the demo done even though people want to jump ahead to
> speculate on every possible detail).

But something like that seems to have happened in Escambia County,
Florida, in 2000.  Out of 21,500 absentee ballots cast, 296 (1.5% of
the total) were overvotes with three or more presidential candidates
checked.  ZERO were overvotes with exactly two candidates checked.
Ballot tampering after the ballots were received is the most plausible
explanation.  You said that in your system the paper ballots are
supposed to take priority over the electronic count if there is a
dispute (that's the whole point of having the paper ballots).  So it
doesn't matter if the paper and electronic results don't match, and
the tampering doesn't have to happen while the voter can still see the
ballot.

Reference:

  http://www.failureisimpossible.com/essays/escambia.htm

Note: Paul Lukasiak, the main author of that article, did some of the
most thorough analysis of the Florida debacle that I've seen.  I hope
you will read a lot of his stuff in designing your real system, so
you'll be able to say how your system deals with the problems that he
identified in Florida.



From skip at pobox.com  Wed Jul 23 17:44:32 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 16:44:32 -0500
Subject: lists and files question
In-Reply-To: <bfmr7p$kce$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
References: <3F1DCF52.7040607@hotmail.com>
        <mailman.1058965656.21694.python-list@python.org>
        <bfmr7p$kce$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <16159.448.677068.670308@montanaro.dyndns.org>

Jumping in late, and not meaning to step on John's toes:

    >> 2) The reason to use re.compile is for efficiency.  There is no need
    >> to call it inside the loop, since you're just recompiling the same
    >> regex over and over again.  Instead, compile the regex outside the
    >> loop
    >> 
    >> >>> rgx = re.compile('[A-Z]+')
    >> >>> for some_text in some_list:
    >> ...     m = rgx.match(some_text)

This usually doesn't buy you much because both regular expression modules
delivered with Python (sre via re, and pre if you choose it explicitly)
cache regular expression objects they compiles from strings.  Details are in
sre.py:_compile and pre.py:_cachecompile.

Skip




From bogal2 at comcast.net  Mon Jul 14 10:30:18 2003
From: bogal2 at comcast.net (BogAl)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 09:30:18 -0500
Subject: Can't install csv parser
References: <MPG.197b80c54e88b1489896a6@news.in.comcast.giganews.com> <3f11ba56$0$6532$afc38c87@sisyphus.news.be.easynet.net> <m3r84tivkn.fsf@ferret.object-craft.com.au>
Message-ID: <MPG.197c88885d4542c09896a8@news.in.comcast.giganews.com>

Thanks for the reply, Dave....

> Try putting the .pyd in C:\Python22\Lib\site-packages

Unfortunately, I'm still getting the error message.

:(



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Thu Jul 17 20:33:42 2003
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 20:33:42 -0400
Subject: Problems retrieving items from a list using a reference rather than an integer - can you help?
References: <3f15ca92@shknews01>
Message-ID: <Z2udnWAKENr63YqiXTWJjg@comcast.com>

"Rogue9" <lol at lolmc.com> wrote in message news:3f15ca92 at shknews01...
> Hi,
> I?m trying to retrieve an item from a list using a reference called
> ?draw?' (which is an integer from 1 to 792 in a while loop) using:-

'draw' is a name (or maybe a variable) bound to a succession of
integers.  Calling it a reference is not generally helpful and may
someday mislead you.

> draw = 1
> while 1:
> if draw == 792:
> break
> b1 = someOtherList[draw-1]
> r1 = b1[draw]
> draw = draw+1

For newsgroup postings, spaces generally work better than tabs.

To make it easier to answer such questions, make your lists short
enough (say len() == 3) to post.  Make sure you copy and paste the
actual code executed.  Then copy and past the actual result and
explain what you wanted or expected that would be different.

Terry J. Reedy





From tim.one at comcast.net  Fri Jul 18 22:25:11 2003
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 22:25:11 -0400
Subject: Threading Pool Event()
In-Reply-To: <ia1Sa.304$vD1.13822@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCCEPHEOAB.tim.one@comcast.net>

[Graeme Matthew]
> ok still a bit confused sorry .... first attempt at a thread pool
>
> Am I correct in saying that each thread runs in a continious loop

That's a usual way to write this, yes.

> each thread calls queue.get.

Right.

> The get method will block and not return anything until an item is
> placed into it.

Until an item is placed into the Queue object, via a Queue.put() call made
in some other thread.

> When an item is placed into it, one of the threads will get assinged a
> job i.e the first one that happens to be in use during the cycle ?

*Some* thread's .get() call will return then.  Nothing is defined about
*which* thread.

> The job is returned to the thread, it runs with the job and does all
> the processing then returns and calls queue.get again and waits for a
> job to become available ?

Right.

> When placing a job via Queue.put() one must acquire a lock place it
> and then release it

No.  Work is put on the Queue by calling Queue.put(), and removed from the
Queue by calling Queue.get().  There is no need for you to do any locking;
all necessary synchronization is performed for you, by the methods of the
Queue class.

> Am i aslo correct in saying that queue is actually doing the blocking

Yes.

> and controls which thread gets the job ?

No -- that's up to the vagaries of your operating system's and/or platform C
library's thread implementation, which Python calls.

> Lastly, sorry for all the questions, surely the CPU usage is the same
> when the queue is waiting for jobs and when the threads are polling
> as theyre all in one process anyway

No, blocking on a Queue.get() consumes no (or essentially no <wink>) CPU
time on reasonable platforms.  Blocking is passive.  Polling is active.  The
Queue class doesn't poll.





From sketerpot at chase3000.com  Fri Jul 11 13:28:15 2003
From: sketerpot at chase3000.com (Peter Scott)
Date: 11 Jul 2003 10:28:15 -0700
Subject: Python extension on Windows
References: <bemf6t$l1r$1@news-reader4.wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <659f82ff.0307110928.658965ee@posting.google.com>

David Isal <david.isal at wanadoo.fr> wrote in message news:<bemf6t$l1r$1 at news-reader4.wanadoo.fr>...
> i read that it is mandatory to use Micro$oft visual c++ to build any 
> extensions on windows beacuse it's the same compiler used to build 
> python for windows.
> does anybody has advices about that?
> i would rather use cygwin/g++ but i don't know if it's possible or how 
> to fix this error message.

I don't know what's causing your particular problem (since I got free
MSVC++ from a Microsoft promotional gimmick), but if you download the
python 2.2.3 source and compile that with Cygwin, that should
eliminate any possible incompatibilities between compilers.

The source tarball is at
<http://python.org/ftp/python/2.2.3/Python-2.2.3.tgz>.



From faizan at jaredweb.com  Sun Jul 27 15:34:26 2003
From: faizan at jaredweb.com (Fazer)
Date: 27 Jul 2003 12:34:26 -0700
Subject: GET/POST Data Array in Python?
Message-ID: <7b454334.0307271134.771de1ce@posting.google.com>

Hello Everyone!

I am making a simple Pythong CGI script that collects data from a
form.  When the Python CGI Script is called,  I wish to gather all the
POST variables and display all their values.  So, I was wondering if
all the POST data is collected in an array like in PHP where I just go
through all keys and display their values?

Thanks,



From glenfant at NOSPAM.bigfoot.com  Fri Jul  4 18:04:11 2003
From: glenfant at NOSPAM.bigfoot.com (Gilles Lenfant)
Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2003 00:04:11 +0200
Subject: How to get CGI request-URL
References: <HBF.20030704ty6d@bombur.uio.no>
Message-ID: <be4ss1$1907$1@biggoron.nerim.net>

"Hallvard B Furuseth" <h.b.furuseth(nospam)@usit.uio(nospam).no> a ?crit
dans le message de news: HBF.20030704ty6d at bombur.uio.no...
> How can I get the URL the user typed (except the part after '?') with
> the cgi module?
>
> I expect the 'Host:' HTTP header + os.environ['SCRIPT_NAME'] would do
> it, but I don't see how to find the Host header.  The www server has
> several names, so I can't just use the default host name.
>
> --
> Hallvard

Don't remember but...

There's a test() function in the cgi module that shows the special data
available from a CGI script.

--Gilles




From pinard at iro.umontreal.ca  Tue Jul 22 17:07:06 2003
From: pinard at iro.umontreal.ca (=?iso-8859-1?q?Fran=E7ois_Pinard?=)
Date: 22 Jul 2003 17:07:06 -0400
Subject: Search for a string in binary files
In-Reply-To: <bfjf6d$1f3$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
References: <bfhldv$lb$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
	<mailman.1058840314.10448.python-list@python.org>
	<bfjf6d$1f3$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <oqr84i8e4l.fsf@titan.progiciels-bpi.ca>

[hokieghal99]

> One last question: does grep actually open files when it searches them?

I did not look at `grep' sources for a good while, I might not remember
correctly, read me with caution.  `grep' might be trying to `mmap' the files
if the file (and the underlying system) allows this, and there is system
overhead associated with that function, just like `open'.

> And, would it be more efficent (faster) to just call grep from python to
> do the searching?

No doubt to me that it is more efficient calling `grep' _instead_ of Python.
However, if Python is already started, it is more efficient doing the work
from within Python than launching an external program as `grep', as there is
non-negligible system overhead in doing so.  (Yet for only a few files,
launching `grep' is fast enough that the user would not notice it anyway.)

Still, there are special cases, unusual in practice, when `grep' might be
faster despite the overhead of calling it.  When the file is long enough,
and the string to be searched for meets some special conditions, the
Buyer-Moore algorithm (not sure of spelling) might progressively beat the
likely more simple-minded search technique used within `string.find'.  Yet
if Python's `string.find' relies on `strstr' in GNU `libc', it might be
quite fast already.  The implementation of such basic routines in `libc'
varied over time, they at least once used to be extremely well implemented
for speed, cleverly using bits of assembler here and there.  For `strstr' in
particular, there was once some good code from Stephen van den Berg.  I do
not know what `libc' uses nowadays, nor if Python takes advantage of it.

Finally, for huge files, proper reading in Python has to be done in chunks,
and the string to be searched for may happen to span chunks.  Doing it
properly might require some more care than one might think at first.  But in
practice, on the big average, for reasonable files, staying in Python wins.

-- 
Fran?ois Pinard   http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/~pinard




From tzot at sil-tec.gr  Mon Jul 21 22:03:03 2003
From: tzot at sil-tec.gr (Christos TZOTZIOY Georgiou)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 05:03:03 +0300
Subject: anything like C++ references?
References: <brs2hv8edfv0d1fch9mha8otuulajnkh0g@4ax.com> <bes0ps$l6$1@panix3.panix.com> <qi13hv4s21i8mtr2e600jumm54hqs7tppu@4ax.com> <mailman.1058125699.26133.python-list@python.org> <sag3hv4vf884ed7ouu5cv8ofnopp9j1t12@4ax.com> <f0f51c80.0307132003.264b6894@posting.google.com> <7dc4hvslh7a8fk9p6cvsfqa1c8d44rmmnv@4ax.com> <f0f51c80.0307140649.61cc1fe2@posting.google.com> <41e6hvcl2q5bdjqlp30t1gfq42j2tgo4u4@4ax.com> <bf02d0$ul8$0@216.39.172.122> <qs47hvk7s3m65d2agl4p9ritbjv9pg2cql@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <iq6phvg8tcl24ft2kaoeau44vb76c2mjne@4ax.com>

On Tue, 15 Jul 2003 07:03:11 +0100, rumours say that Stephen Horne
<intentionally at blank.co.uk> might have written:

>You could make a very strong case for references being a distinct
>datatype from pointers

I think you were correct to say that references act as pointers *and*
syntactic sugar.  Simply put, a declaration of a reference:

int &c;

could be interpreted as:

int *__c;
#define c (*__c)

with a corresponding #undef at the end of the block.

This explains stuff like why one uses . instead of -> with a reference.
Anyway, this is how *I* interpreted C++ references once I met them, and
it kind of stuck in my mind.  I could be missing something, though...
I'm more of a plain-C person.
-- 
TZOTZIOY, I speak England very best,
Microsoft Security Alert: the Matrix began as open source.



From gh at ghaering.de  Wed Jul 23 17:39:05 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 23:39:05 +0200
Subject: How to do raw Ethernet under Win32?
In-Reply-To: <3f1ee77f$0$160$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
References: <3f1ed31a$0$181$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<3f1ee77f$0$160$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
Message-ID: <3F1F0079.90705@ghaering.de>

Grant Edwards wrote:
> It looks like I can _almost_ do what I want with the python
> wrapper around the windows pcap lib.

Where's PyLibpCap for Windows available?

-- Gerhard




From peter at engcorp.com  Sat Jul 12 05:33:10 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 05:33:10 -0400
Subject: The "intellectual property" misnomer
References: <mailman.1057978117.8939.python-list@python.org> <slrnbgv1c7.q1.bignose-hates-spam@rose.localdomain.fake> <k8MPa.1892$3G5.1669@nwrdny03.gnilink.net> <slrnbgv4do.q1.bignose-hates-spam@rose.localdomain.fake>
Message-ID: <3F0FD5D6.EC69DB89@engcorp.com>

Ben Finney wrote:
> 
> On Sat, 12 Jul 2003 04:29:04 GMT, Raymond Hettinger wrote:
> > In layman's terms, it means exactly what Guido said.
> 
> The layman's understanding of "intellectual property" is confused,
> doesn't relate to reality, and is harmful.  Please avoid use of that
> term.

You've already stated clearly your belief (Are you a lawyer?
No?  So it's merely a belief, right? a personal opinion.)
that the term "intellectual property" has no legal meaning,
therefore "layman's" in the above is redundant.  The result
is that you are saying in effect that the term "intellectual 
property" is wrong for everyone on the planet and that no one 
can have a useful meaning for it and therefore must avoid its use.
One might almost expect you to claim copyright on the phrase and
refuse to license its reproduction to the rest of us. ;-)

As far as I'm concerned, "intellectual property" *has* a useful
meaning, though an ambiguous one (as intended, no doubt), and 
Guido used it in a way which communicated *to me* (as he intended
it to communicate to people like me) certain information.  There's
no need in non-legal documents to avoid ambiguity and in fact 
there's a lot of advantage in using it.  Think of it as a Pythonic
approach to communication: it's not rigorously defined, yet
it works!

You may not like the term, but I got something useful out of 
that use of it, as was intended, and I might feel somewhat 
offended by your telling me and everyone else on the planet that
we should avoid it when *we* believe it communicates something
useful, and effectively.

-Peter



From davecook at nowhere.net  Fri Jul 18 03:04:01 2003
From: davecook at nowhere.net (David M. Cook)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 07:04:01 GMT
Subject: gui
References: <pan.2003.07.18.00.19.12.167699@InospamIhotmail.com>
Message-ID: <BZMRa.39548$R92.39068@news2.central.cox.net>

In article <pan.2003.07.18.00.19.12.167699 at InospamIhotmail.com>, Linkages
wrote:

> a good GUI for linux ?

I like pygtk together with glade for doing layout:

FAQ: http://www.async.com.br/faq/pygtk/index.py?req=all
Tutorial: http://www.moeraki.com/pygtktutorial/pygtk2tutorial/index.html 
Reference: http://www.moeraki.com/pygtkreference/pygtk2reference/

There are also wxpython, pyqt, foxpy, and good old tkinter
(which is what comes with the standard library.)

Dave Cook




From intentionally at blank.co.uk  Mon Jul 14 18:55:41 2003
From: intentionally at blank.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 23:55:41 +0100
Subject: anything like C++ references?
References: <000301c348c7$3c501980$21795418@dell1700> <sag3hv4vf884ed7ouu5cv8ofnopp9j1t12@4ax.com> <bet1sd$ibl$1@panix3.panix.com> <sfa4hvkq1j7rg1iga5j3tk2cc4qpr6e5qk@4ax.com> <beueis$b1d$1@panix3.panix.com>
Message-ID: <78c6hvgu599ku5denkkl7pgmd4n13t460i@4ax.com>

On 14 Jul 2003 10:26:36 -0400, aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) wrote:

>>>That's why I (and others) prefer to use "name" and "target" instead of
>>>"variable".  Would that assuage your ire?
>>
>>Not really, for reasons defined elsewhere. The problem isn't
>>theoretical - it is practical, as shown by the fact that people do
>>trip over it time and time again. I'm just saying that the problem
>>arises out of peoples intuition of how variables should work - an
>>intuition that matches very well with theory.
>
>People trip over pointers, too, even when they're explicit.  Heck,
>people have problem with the simple
>
>    a = a + 1
>
>no matter *what* programming language is used if they can't get past
>their high school algebra and understand that "=" is a *command* in this
>context.  The question is not whether newcomers get tripped up, but the
>extent to which the language can be easily defined in a consistent and
>rigorous manner.  Python passes that test quite handily, IMO.

Ah - but this is also Pythons fault. It has arbitrarily redefined the
meaning of a mathematics operator - presumably simply because C, C++,
Java, Basic and others have done this in the past.

C's rationale for this still amuses me. It was because there are more
assignments in a typical program than tests for equality. It was an
argument about numbers of keypresses!

Frankly, this is another thing that should not be done in a 'very high
level language'.

In BASIC, the operator is a shorthand for what was originally written
with a 'LET' command. Annoying, but at least the original form made
the point.

Personally, though, I'd go with Pascal on this one.

Similarly, if Pythons binding of variables to objects was used to
correctly implement a binding of variables to values - as happens in
mathematics - there'd be no confusion.

In another thread, hokiegal99 made a mistake where she expected the
string.strip method to literally change the name of a file on disk.
But was she being irrational? I don't think so. She had no doubt been
told, in effect, that Python variables bind to objects rather than
values. The object she was changing was 'the name of a file'. If
Python variables bind to objects rather than values, then that os.walk
method should be providing literally a list of the names of the files
- objects which literally refer back to the on disk file names. It
doesn't. It provides a list of representations of the names at a point
in time.

Of course in this case, binding to the object itself (or something
that implements a binding to that object) would be complex and
inefficient. I guess Python is just doing what is convenient for the
implementation.




From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Thu Jul 10 13:50:37 2003
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 12:50:37 -0500
Subject: replace value of a specific position
In-Reply-To: <bek8ce$ok2$1@news.uni-kl.de> (Tom's message of "Thu, 10 Jul
 2003 19:36:16 +0200")
References: <bek8ce$ok2$1@news.uni-kl.de>
Message-ID: <m2isqa8e4y.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

>>>>> "Tom" == Tom  <llafba at gmx.net> writes:

    Tom> Hi, I want to replace a specific part of a string. I tried
    Tom> replace but this doesn't work the way I want it, because it
    Tom> checks and replaces all values and not the position (index).

    Tom> t = '010010101001001110100101010111' t = t.replace(t[5], '2')

strings are immutable and cannot be changed.  You can represent a
string as a list, change the list, and then convert back to a string.
If you need to make lots of changes, keep it as a list until you are
done and need the string back

t = '010010101001001110100101010111'
l = list(t)
l[5] = '2'
print l

# now convert back to string
tnew = ''.join(l)
print tnew

JDH




From hokiegal99 at hotmail.com  Sun Jul 13 12:43:46 2003
From: hokiegal99 at hotmail.com (hokiegal99)
Date: 13 Jul 2003 09:43:46 -0700
Subject: removing spaces from front and end of filenames
References: <beqdf0$m2q$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <93f5c5e9.0307130843.3e3e3daa@posting.google.com>

Ha!!

Fixed it with this bit of code:

for root, dirs, files in os.walk('/home/BradTill/python'):
    for file in files:
        fname = (file)
        fname = fname.strip( )
	newfile = fname
	if newfile:
	    newpath = os.path.join(root,newfile)
            oldpath = os.path.join(root,file)
            os.rename(oldpath,newpath)
	    print oldpath
	    print newpath

Below is a sample of how the script acts on filenames:

--- Remove '%2f' From Filenames ---
 
/home/BradTill/python/  %2fbad%2fmac%2ffile>  
/home/BradTill/python/  -bad-mac-file>  
/home/BradTill/python/-target1-/  %2fbad%2fmac%2ffile|  
/home/BradTill/python/-target1-/  -bad-mac-file|  
/home/BradTill/python/-target1-/-target2-/  %2fbad%2fmac%2ffile?   
/home/BradTill/python/-target1-/-target2-/  -bad-mac-file?   
/home/BradTill/python/-target1-/-target2-/-target3-/ 
%2fbad%2fmac%2ffile\
/home/BradTill/python/-target1-/-target2-/-target3-/  -bad-mac-file\
 
--- Done ---
 
--- Remove Bad Characters From Filenames ---
 
/home/BradTill/python/  -bad-mac-file>  
/home/BradTill/python/  -bad-mac-file-  
/home/BradTill/python/-target1-/  -bad-mac-file|  
/home/BradTill/python/-target1-/  -bad-mac-file-  
/home/BradTill/python/-target1-/-target2-/  -bad-mac-file?   
/home/BradTill/python/-target1-/-target2-/  -bad-mac-file-   
/home/BradTill/python/-target1-/-target2-/-target3-/  -bad-mac-file\
/home/BradTill/python/-target1-/-target2-/-target3-/  -bad-mac-file-
 
--- Done ---
 
--- Remove Spaces From Filenames ---
 
/home/BradTill/python/fix_files.py
/home/BradTill/python/fix_files.py
/home/BradTill/python/fix_dirs.py
/home/BradTill/python/fix_dirs.py
/home/BradTill/python/files
/home/BradTill/python/files
/home/BradTill/python/  -bad-mac-file-  
/home/BradTill/python/-bad-mac-file-
/home/BradTill/python/-target1-/  -bad-mac-file-  
/home/BradTill/python/-target1-/-bad-mac-file-
/home/BradTill/python/-target1-/-target2-/  -bad-mac-file-   
/home/BradTill/python/-target1-/-target2-/-bad-mac-file-
/home/BradTill/python/-target1-/-target2-/-target3-/  -bad-mac-file-
/home/BradTill/python/-target1-/-target2-/-target3-/-bad-mac-file-
 
--- Done ---

Works well on dirs too, except that the path changes when a fix is
made to a parent dir so the script has to be run over and over until
all sub dirs are fixed.



From gsmatthew at ozemail.com.au  Sun Jul  6 08:08:35 2003
From: gsmatthew at ozemail.com.au (Graeme Matthew)
Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2003 22:08:35 +1000
Subject: Python is a gem, you need to keep pushing it ....
References: <0gVMa.126$a%1.9289@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au>
Message-ID: <9jUNa.625$kY2.37246@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au>

sorry guys, i was just praising python not trying to cause a theoretical
bitch fight, for my purposes it the best language out there, if you need to
write device driver fine use C ...
"Graeme Matthew" <gsmatthew at ozemail.com.au> wrote in message
news:0gVMa.126$a%1.9289 at nnrp1.ozemail.com.au...
> Hi all, I just wanted to tell someone :-)
>
> I was previously a perl programmer and have been a visual basic frustrated
> developer for a number of years, only for the reason that corporates are
so
> obsessed with using proprietary marketing focused computer languages and
not
> using true computer science oriented solutions written by computer science
> engineers and not a marketing panel. The amount of frustration I have
> experienced using visual basic is unbelievable and most of these programs
> could have been easily written in python and solved in half the time. I
> looked at ruby, it is a beautiful language too but there are still too
many
> scarce libraries compared to python. Perl, I still like perl but its
syntax
> requires a photographic memory when coming back to some old code.
>
> I have now taken on a large project outside of work for another company,
> initially they, yes wait for it, wanted a VB client / server solution. It
> took me lot of hard motivation and they have now totally changed their
> focus, a web based python solution it now is ! who said one cannot market
> linux, python and mysql ? I hope to have the project completed in 6 months
> and I am looking forward to adding it to one of python's success stories.
>
> So the whole point of this email is that if a lot of you are hitting the
> same frustration as myself where managers (and people who think Microsoft
> invented everything well except a watch you need to recharge every 2 days
> :-)  keep on insisting on developing in the basket case Microsoft
Languages
> such as VB (I am not mentioning C or C++ as it does not fall into this
> bracket)  then dont give up, keep up the evangelism, as someday they will
> give in .... and let you prove it too them
>
> Cheers
>
>
>
>





From alanmk at hotmail.com  Thu Jul 24 15:24:07 2003
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 20:24:07 +0100
Subject: Tokenize
References: <8%VTa.133$313.72262@news.uswest.net>
Message-ID: <3F203257.AD0A4B30@hotmail.com>

Ken Fettig wrote:

> Does Python have an equivelent to the Java StringTokenizer? If so,
> what is it and how do you implement it?

Is this the kind of thing that you mean?

Python 2.3b1 (#40, Apr 25 2003, 19:06:24)
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.

>>> s = "This is a string to be tokenised"
>>> s.split()
['This', 'is', 'a', 'string', 'to', 'be', 'tokenised']

>>> s = "This:is:a:string:to:be:tokenised"
>>> s.split(':')
['This', 'is', 'a', 'string', 'to', 'be', 'tokenised']

>>> s.split(':', 2)
['This', 'is', 'a:string:to:be:tokenised']
>>>

Or maybe you have something more specific in mind?

-- 
alan kennedy
-----------------------------------------------------
check http headers here: http://xhaus.com/headers
email alan:              http://xhaus.com/mailto/alan



From martin at v.loewis.de  Wed Jul  9 15:36:24 2003
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-15?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 09 Jul 2003 21:36:24 +0200
Subject: Possible to install from CD using distutils?
References: <mailman.1057731017.29267.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m37k6r332f.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

"Simon Wittber (Maptek)" <Simon.Wittber at perth.maptek.com.au> writes:

> Try this command. It will let you write to a CD drive.
> 
> mount -o rw /dev/cdrom /mnt/cdrom

Did you try this? You can't mount a cdrom rw - the hardware just does
not support writing to a CD-*ROM* (Read-Only Memory).

Regards,
Martin



From glenfant at NOSPAM.bigfoot.com  Thu Jul 10 11:40:25 2003
From: glenfant at NOSPAM.bigfoot.com (Gilles Lenfant)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 17:40:25 +0200
Subject: delete file from python cgi
References: <2c6431ab.0307100711.780a65ad@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bek0jv$2dis$1@biggoron.nerim.net>

No direct connection with cgi...

import os
os.remove("/path/to/your/file.txt")

--Gilles




From Aaron.Hawley at uvm.edu  Sun Jul 27 17:13:08 2003
From: Aaron.Hawley at uvm.edu (Aaron S. Hawley)
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 17:13:08 -0400
Subject: Inheriting (subclass) of dict data attribute (copying)
Message-ID: <Pine.A41.4.55.0307271708520.39048@elk.uvm.edu>

Would be the most obvious (best in idiom) to overwrite the dictionary of
my derived dict class?  The old school way is obvious to me.

TIA, /a

#!/usr/bin/env python

from UserDict import UserDict

class Old_Chickens(UserDict): ## old school
    def __init__(self, chickens):
        self.set_chickens(chickens)
    def set_chickens(self, chickens):
        self.data = chickens

class New_Chickens(dict): ## new school
    def __init__(self, chickens):
        self.set_chickens(chickens)
    def set_chickens(self, chickens):
        self = dict.__init__(self, chickens)


new_chickens = New_Chickens({'white': 12, 'brown': 8})
print new_chickens['white']

old_chickens = Old_Chickens({'white': 12, 'brown': 8})
print old_chickens['white']

-- 
PINE 4.55 Mailer - www.washington.edu/pine/
source-included, proprietary, gratis, text-based, console email client



From lorenb2 at bezeqint.net  Sun Jul 20 15:28:54 2003
From: lorenb2 at bezeqint.net (Bobbie)
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 21:28:54 +0200
Subject: httplib\urllib attributes problem
Message-ID: <001c01c34ef5$2804e7b0$6700a8c0@inet43>

hello ppl,

While trying to build a web client I've encountered problems using both 
httplib and urllib2.  

The problem with httplib is that the "Accept-Encoding: Identity" HTTP header is
always sent by the library with no regard to my headers configuration.  in case
I setup an "Accept-Encoding" header of my own it just sends them both...

The problem with urllib2 is that a "User-agent: Python-urllib/2.0a1" is, again, sent
by default. in case I setup a "User-Agent" attribute of my own it just, again, sends
them both. Note the lower-case 'a' letter in the former user-agent
automatically sent by the library.  I can't even overrun it because of that.

I'll be happy for any kind of help, suggestion,...

thanks

Bob.
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From peter at engcorp.com  Wed Jul  9 05:59:34 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 05:59:34 -0400
Subject: Executables under Win32
References: <5vkngvs2epq6rv0a3rodeb839k5ls8bafj@4ax.com> <3F0BE70A.165B5274@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <3F0BE786.E0EB043E@engcorp.com>

Peter Hansen wrote:
> 
> Fuzzyman wrote:
> >
> > IS there a tool to make Python Executables (binaries) under Win32...
> > or must people have a distribution of Python to use any scripts I
> > write ?
> >
> > I don't need to hide my source code - but would liek to make it easy
> > for a newbie to use my scripts.
> 
> (Excellently asked question!  We get this one often, but rarely so
> clearly. :-)

Of course, having written this, I should have stopped myself from
answering as I did and directed you to the FAQ!

http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw.py?req=show&file=faq04.028.htp



From abelikov72 at hotmail.com  Wed Jul  9 00:59:20 2003
From: abelikov72 at hotmail.com (Afanasiy)
Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 04:59:20 GMT
Subject: Python vs PHP
References: <mailman.1057574470.1750.python-list@python.org> <kmolgv4mp12o71ocion7ra0m2s9fcrqjdk@4ax.com> <slrnbglqp8.os1.jon+usenet@snowy.squish.net> <h7rlgvkogjr3t8geb36v6jjk4u5n9cdm2s@4ax.com> <slrnbgltd7.os1.jon+usenet@snowy.squish.net> <moulgv8ehi6680j6to1ai6tlmopm0srons@4ax.com> <slrnbgm1jg.sv7.jon+usenet@snowy.squish.net> <K6GcnTvaKdGQ6ZaiRTvUqA@speakeasy.net>
Message-ID: <998ngvs89fa45iap2ummvvmnlohagfipvd@4ax.com>

On Tue, 08 Jul 2003 20:46:53 -0500, "A.M. Kuchling" <amk at amk.ca> wrote:

>On 8 Jul 2003 17:59:12 GMT, 
>	Jon Ribbens <jon+usenet at unequivocal.co.uk> wrote:
>> I don't understand why you keep saying "CGI is not an option" when
>> nobody has suggested that you use it.
>
>Jon, there's no point in debating Afanasiy about CGI.  He's convinced
>packages for Python web programming support are inadequate (*all* of them),
>is unable to explain what the problem is or what his requirements are, and
>doesn't seem to really understand the subject (e.g. thinking FastCGI is
>basically the same as regular CGI).  Ignoring him is the best course.

Read.




From max at alcyone.com  Fri Jul 18 01:37:07 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 22:37:07 -0700
Subject: scanf string in python
References: <bf7ut5$vf8$03$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <3F178783.41DCA40F@alcyone.com>

lehrig wrote:

> I have a string which is returned by a C extension.
> 
> mystring = '(1,2,3)'
> 
> HOW can I read the numbers in python ?

re.findall seems the safest and easiest solution:

>>> re.findall(r'(\d+)', '(1, 2, 3)')
['1', '2', '3']
>>> map(int, re.findall(r'(\d+)', '(1, 2, 3)'))
[1, 2, 3]

Flavor to taste.

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ You can buy any kind of love, but you can't buy love deluxe.
\__/  Sade Adu



From LogiplexSoftware at earthlink.net  Thu Jul  3 18:23:34 2003
From: LogiplexSoftware at earthlink.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: 03 Jul 2003 15:23:34 -0700
Subject: A story about Python... sort of
In-Reply-To: <KwWMa.3332$Aw.3042@twister.nyc.rr.com>
References: <3f03f430$0$97222$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
	 <KwWMa.3332$Aw.3042@twister.nyc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <1057271014.16862.34.camel@software1.logiplex.internal>

On Thu, 2003-07-03 at 06:50, Max Khesin wrote:
> import flame.*
> import sorry.*
> Ok, with all my respect to python, the stuff about C++ is a bunch of hooey.
> Compilation time is the problem? Give me a break.

It is *a* problem.  I'll agree that it's one of the least.

> 1) separate compilation?
> 2) precompiled headers?
> 3) tools that allow cluster compilation?
> 4) ever read 'large-scale c++ development' by Lacos? a must for large c++
> project. letter-envelope idiom to help compilation...etc.
> Anyway, if you are coding so fast that compilation time becomes a serious
> problem you are either
> a) the smartest and fastest programmer on earth
> b) are not thinking enough

Or making simple typos.

> c++ is great when execution speed and memory efficiency is a must. It is
> hard to learn, but there are great benefits, and do you really want halfwits
> (who can't learn it) involved on your project? It also (by design) makes
> previous C programmers productive very fast. 

I won't disagree that there is a place for languages like C++. 
Developing entire applications isn't it.

> Empirically - just look at all the C++ projects on SF!

And what percentage of those are incomplete, abandoned, or simply
unusable?  

-- 
Cliff Wells, Software Engineer
Logiplex Corporation (www.logiplex.net)
(503) 978-6726  (800) 735-0555





From alanmk at hotmail.com  Thu Jul  3 14:24:53 2003
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 19:24:53 +0100
Subject: XML Validation with Python
References: <cb035744.0307020901.472c3573@posting.google.com> <3F042045.C5CB0248@hotmail.com> <cb035744.0307030955.1e4f3bfe@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3F0474F5.FD7E57F3@hotmail.com>

Will Stuyvesant wrote:

> Because I want to use it from a cgi script written in Python.  And I
> am not allowed to install 3rd party stuff on the webserver.  Even if I
> was it would not be a solution since it has to be easy to put it on
> another webserver.  But of course: if there is a validating parser
> written completely in Python then I can use it too!  If it runs under
> Python 2.1.1, that is (that is what they have at the website).  I will
> investigate this www.garshol.priv.no link you gave me, thank you.

Glad to be of help.

There is a comment on Lars site, which is vaguely worrying, which
says:

"Note that it is recommended to use xmlproc through the SAX API rather
than directly, since this provides much greater freedom in the choice
of
parsers. (For example, you can switch to using Pyexpat which is
written
in C without changing your code.)"

Which seems to indicate to me that the author is encouraging the user
not to rely on xmlproc too much. Perhaps performance might be an
issue?

One more thing: There are alternative validation methods, which may or
not be suitable, based on your requirements.

For example, there is a python implementation of James Clark's Tree
Regular EXpressions (TREX), written in pure python, and which uses the
inbuilt C parser, written by James Tauber and called pytrex. I
personally find trex and pytrex a very natural, and thus easy to
learn, way to check structures in a tree, including data validation.
Pytrex is not complete, and is no longer maintained, but what's there
is good code, and with nice little features, such as the ability to
define your own datatype validation functions, which are called at
match time.

http://pytrex.sourceforge.net/

Pytrex is unlikely to be ever completed, because James Clark has
abandoned TREX in favour of RELAX-NG, for which I haven't seen any
python implementation.

http://www.relaxng.org/

There is a python implementation of XML-Schema, xsv, written by Henry
Thompson, which I think was kept fairly up-to-date with the XML-Schema
spec as it evolved. However, given the complexity of XML-Schema, and
having never tried to use xsv, I have no idea of its stability.

http://www.ltg.ed.ac.uk/~ht/xsv-status.html

I note that the author also maintains a web service for validating
documents.

Are you sure that XML validation-parsing is the right solution for
your problem? There may be simpler ways.

-- 
alan kennedy
-----------------------------------------------------
check http headers here: http://xhaus.com/headers
email alan:              http://xhaus.com/mailto/alan



From jepler at unpythonic.net  Sun Jul 20 23:15:56 2003
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 22:15:56 -0500
Subject: Unfortunate exception on dict item assignment (and why aren't slices hashable?)
In-Reply-To: <slrnbhmjh2.si4.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>
References: <mailman.1058752171.10243.python-list@python.org> <slrnbhmjh2.si4.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>
Message-ID: <20030721031556.GA4990@unpythonic.net>

Earlier, I [Jeff] wrote:
> > In fact, I wonder why slices *aren't* hashable.
> 
On Mon, Jul 21, 2003 at 04:49:55PM +0950, Ben Finney wrote:
> How would you store the resulting key; how would you expect it to be
> returned from keys() ?

???

Here's something that "works" today:
>>>class C: __getitem__ = lambda self, idx: idx
...
>>> C()[:]
slice(0, 2147483647, None)

But this doesn't work:
>>> d = {}
>>> s = C()[:]
>>> d[s] = None
TypeError: unhashable type

Here's what "should" happen:
>>> d[s] = None
>>> print d[s]
None
>>> print d
{slice(0, 2147483647, None): None}

I don't see what's problematic about letting slices be hashable: they
don't appear to be mutable, for instance.
>>> s.start
0
>>> s.start = -1
TypeError: readonly attribute
... it may merely be an oversight.  Hashing them as
    hash((s.start,s.stop,s.step))
might be a reasonable definition.

Jeff




From irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl  Wed Jul 30 07:48:56 2003
From: irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 13:48:56 +0200
Subject: funny  slashdot quote regarding python 2.3 release
In-Reply-To: <3f279da0$0$13799$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net>
References: <3f279da0$0$13799$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net>
Message-ID: <3f27b0a9$0$49104$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

Guyon Mor?e wrote:
>  suspect that most time-critical code is not written in python.
> 
> Depends on which time is critical: CPU time, or programmer time?
> 
> -jcr

Not only funny, but also a very *sound* question.

 From your development company's point of view: the programmer time.
 From the customer's point of view: depends. Usually CPU time.
But programmer's time means longer realization times and usually
higher cost (unless the project is fixed-price).

And let's not forget that time-critical code can very well be
written in a high-performance C extension module.

--Irmen




From adechert at earthlink.net  Mon Jul 21 03:32:28 2003
From: adechert at earthlink.net (Alan Dechert)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 07:32:28 GMT
Subject: Electronic voting with free software
References: <P9DSa.111436$Io.9552373@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <bff6jb$e8goe$1@ID-67890.news.uni-berlin.de> <slrnbhma55.si4.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>
Message-ID: <gGMSa.112403$Io.9622843@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>

"Ben Finney" <bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au> wrote in message
news:slrnbhma55.si4.bignose-hates-spam at iris.polar.local...
> On Mon, 21 Jul 2003 00:54:34 +0200, Ulrich Petri wrote:
> ><snip voting with computers>
> > Sorry but why on earth you dont just print that on paper and let
> > people make their crosses where they want?
>
> To give benefits that paper ballots can't provide.  E.g. allowing people
> to vote over the Internet who can't get to voting booths, removing the
> human element of transposing ballots to a database, possibly reducing
> double-voting, etc.
>
Several studies concluded that remote unattended Internet voting poses some
very thorny problems (especially voter identity).  However, these studies
have also said there is no reason attended Internet voting could not work.
Our project incorporates a proposal for Remote Attended Internet Voting to
replace the various existing absentee voting methods employed today.

> The FREE project was developing GNU.FREE software for electronic voting;
> development has since halted, but they have a lot of articles resulting
> from the development activity:
>
Kitkat, underestimated the size of the problem on the technical side.  He
never started to look at the politcal one which is much larger.  It is
axiomatic that everyone that jumps in to solve the problem underestimates
it.

The team I am putting together is getting a handle on the technical side as
well as the political side.  We have a ways to go yet.

Alan Dechert







From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Jul 25 09:01:10 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 09:01:10 -0400
Subject: decimal to binary
References: <Dh9Ua.13488$Df5.327750@news1.tin.it>
Message-ID: <3F212A16.A8A57532@engcorp.com>

manuel wrote:
> 
> How to convert a decimal to binary ?

No builtin function, but you could likely find lots of previous
questions like this, and answers.

If you don't feel like searching, can you post an example of
what you want in and what you want out?  Some people asking
this kind of question are confused about representations
of numbers and how data is really stored in computers, and 
they don't really want what they thing they want.

A quick Google groups search with "convert decimal binary"
reveals answers that would probably work for you.

-Peter



From andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au  Tue Jul 15 06:27:18 2003
From: andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au (Andrew MacIntyre)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 20:27:18 +1000 (EST)
Subject: FCNTL module deprecation warning
In-Reply-To: <1ED4ECF91CDED24C8D012BCF2B034F1302644325@its-xchg4.massey.ac.nz>
References: <1ED4ECF91CDED24C8D012BCF2B034F1302644325@its-xchg4.massey.ac.nz>
Message-ID: <20030715201604.E39137@bullseye.apana.org.au>

On Tue, 15 Jul 2003, Meyer, Tony wrote:

> (I did try to google for an answer to this, but couldn't find anything,
> although plenty of instances of the warning).
>
> I don't understand this warning:
> >>> import fcntl
> C:\Program Files\Python23\lib\fcntl.py:7: DeprecationWarning: the FCNTL
> module is deprecated; please use fcntl
>   DeprecationWarning)
> >>>
>
> It seems to be saying that I shouldn't use "import FCNTL" (which gives
> the same warning), but "import fcntl", but that's what I _am_ doing.
>
> (I don't actually even import fnctl, but httplib does, and causes this
> all over the place.
>
> Any light shedding would be appreciated.

You don't state your exact platform, but the filename quoted is a
MS-DOSish form.

Python natively is case-sensitive.  Windows 9x and later, and OS/2 with
HPFS file systems, are case-insensitive but case-preserving.  So Python
relies on the case preservation when trying to match a filename to a
module name.  This behaviour can be turned off with the PYTHONCASEOK
environment variable.

I would hazard a guess that either:-

a) you have the PYTHONCASEOK environment variable set when you shouldn't;
or
b) you have Python installed on a non-case-preserving file system (like
FAT12 or FAT16); or
c) you installed Python with tools that didn't preserve the case of the
files in the Python library.

--
Andrew I MacIntyre                     "These thoughts are mine alone..."
E-mail: andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au  (pref) | Snail: PO Box 370
        andymac at pcug.org.au             (alt) |        Belconnen  ACT  2616
Web:    http://www.andymac.org/               |        Australia




From peter at engcorp.com  Sun Jul 20 15:15:00 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 15:15:00 -0400
Subject: Importing WMI module into Python CGI script fails
References: <bfe49o$boan8$1@ID-174077.news.uni-berlin.de> <3F1A9A07.F71D274D@engcorp.com> <bfeobb$dtsku$1@ID-174077.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <3F1AEA34.5072FADE@engcorp.com>

MK wrote:
> 
> This is what I get back in browser's window:

Browser?  What are you trying to do, that runs Python code in the
browser window?  Try running your code directly instead of through
CGI and see what happens.  It's easier to debug that way.

>  C:\python\lib\site-packages\win32com\client\__init__.py in
> Moniker(Pathname='winmgmts:', clsctx=23)
> 
> com_error: (-2147217405, 'OLE error 0x80041003', None, None)

The above two snippets suggest that you are trying to access some
COM object called "winmgmts:" but don't have permission.  I have
no idea about COM/ActiveX so I can't help, but perhaps someone
else can.  Searching on Google for the above error code gives
lots of results, including:

 In the call to pWbemServices->GetObject an error of 0x80041003 is
 returned which according to MSDN documentation is

   WBEM_E_ACCESS_DENIED
   The current user does not have permission to perform the action

I'd suggest you (a) learn more about Python, since you don't seem
to know how to interpret error tracebacks, and (b) describe in more
detail what you are trying to accomplish, because the problem is
not with the "wmi" module per se, but at a lower level, and appears
to be related to your not having the correct user permissions for
the object you are accessing.

Sorry I can't help more.

-Peter



From gbhsaint at aol.com  Sun Jul 27 07:27:42 2003
From: gbhsaint at aol.com (Gbhsaint)
Date: 27 Jul 2003 11:27:42 GMT
Subject: Del's "except"ional PEP Rejection
References: <20030727031348.05032.00000554@mb-m26.aol.com>
Message-ID: <20030727072742.00688.00000811@mb-m25.aol.com>

Man, I can't believe that I spelled yield wrong. what a bone head. 


Well at least this construct is an exception at the very first word and it
never gets this far.



From piet at cs.uu.nl  Tue Jul  8 16:29:25 2003
From: piet at cs.uu.nl (Piet van Oostrum)
Date: 08 Jul 2003 22:29:25 +0200
Subject: A story about Python... sort of
References: <mailman.1057554011.6652.python-list@python.org> <mailman.1057601112.30635.python-list@python.org> <O8lOa.805$sY2.237@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net>
Message-ID: <wz3chgep96.fsf@nono.cs.uu.nl>

>>>>> "Russell Reagan" <rreagan at attbi.com> (RR) wrote:

RR> "Bob Gailer" <bgailer at alum.rpi.edu> wrote
>> Physically impossible? or impractical. If it can be solved by Turing
>> machine computation then it is physically possible, even though it might
>> take more time/resources than anyone cares to expend.

The Turing machine will only use a finite part of it, otherwise the
computation will not finish. However, you don't always now how big that
part will be.

RR> Or more time and resources than anyone has, which would make it impossible,
RR> for now.

Both problems can be solved by stopping when space is exhausted, waiting
until technique has evolved enough to upload the state of the computation
to the new extended hardware etc. 

Of course this still stops it when you (or your successors) have used up
the whole universe or have reached the end of the universe. In that sense
it could be physically impossible.
-- 
Piet van Oostrum <piet at cs.uu.nl>
URL: http://www.cs.uu.nl/~piet [PGP]
Private email: P.van.Oostrum at hccnet.nl



From bokr at oz.net  Sat Jul 26 18:03:59 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 26 Jul 2003 22:03:59 GMT
Subject: How safe is modifying locals()?
References: <BDcUa.100193$XV.6037947@twister.austin.rr.com>	 <MvCdnTkcoJNP_7yiXTWJjw@comcast.com>	 <WMdUa.100343$XV.6044659@twister.austin.rr.com> <mailman.1059173799.17228.python-list@python.org> <ZqlUa.102243$XV.6096809@twister.austin.rr.com> <bfttd5$gtc$1@online.de> <Y_wUa.103853$XV.6162947@twister.austin.rr.com>
Message-ID: <bfutsf$flc$0@216.39.172.122>

On Sat, 26 Jul 2003 15:20:24 GMT, Paul Paterson <paulpaterson at users.sourceforge.net> wrote:

>Stefan Schwarzer wrote:
>
>> Hi Paul
>> 
>> Paul Paterson wrote:
>> 
>>> This is a very interesting (and Pythonic) approach, thanks for 
>>> suggesting it! This is certainly what I would try to do if I were 
>>> writing the code from scratch. It may be possible to construct a 
>>> "namespace" type object which gets passed to the function.
>> 
>> 
>> I think the most common way to make a namespace in Python is
>
><snip nice example of namespace class>
>
>Thanks, the bare namespace class is essentially what I am going to try.
>
>> 
>> Of course, if you have a better name for your container, that's even
>> better. Think of Ian's Point example. :-)
>
>I think you may have missed my original post; I am writing a generic VB 
>to Python converter so generating good names based on code intent would 
>be pretty tough! Perhaps in v2.0 ;)
>
>My current thinking is (for the orignal example of changing one 
>variable, 'y' but not another, 'x'),
>
>class Namespace: pas
>
># ByVal arguments passed directly, ByRef via a namespace
>def change(x, byrefs):
>     x = x + 1
>     byrefs.y = byrefs.y + 1
>
>ns = Namespace() # The local namespace
>ns.x = 0
>ns.y = 0
>change(ns.x, ns)
># Now ns.x = 0, ns.y = 1
>
This looks readable, to me ;-)

But it is not pointer semantics, since you have to know the name for y inside change.
It will be nice and fast if you can use the above, but if not, in some cases, class NSP
below will let you use it just like Namespace above, though with pointer features if
you need them.

I just wanted to throw in here that the namespace approach will also let you
use properties (there's a handy builtin to create them from accessor methods,
or you can instantiate them from your own descriptor classes) as your
byrefs "variables" if you like.

You just have to mane the NameSpace class inherit from object, to make it
a new-style class. Then you can add properties either right in the class definition
or later by setting class attributes , e.g.,

 >>> class Namespace(object): pass
 ...
 >>> ns = Namespace()
 >>> ns.x = 123
 >>> Namespace.p = property(lambda self:'Read is only access function specified here')

Note that the above was *not* setting an instance attribute with ns.p = property(...)

 >>> ns.x
 123
 >>> ns.p
 'Read is only access function specified here'
 >>> ns.x = 456
 >>> ns.p = 789
 Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
 AttributeError: can't set attribute
 >>> del ns.p
 Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
 AttributeError: can't delete attribute

So you can define a kind of constant, or have any side effect you want for setting, getting,
and deleting.

Note that normal class attributes are shadowed by instance attributes, e.g.,

 >>> ns.x # from last assignment
 456
 >>> Namespace.x = '456000'
 >>> ns.x
 456
 >>> del ns.x  # deletes ordinary instance attribute
 >>> ns.x      # and if instance attribute is absent, it will be looked for in class
 '456000'

Actually it is a little more complicated than that, since it has to be determined that
there is not a data descriptor/property in the class overriding the instance variable access.
That's why I said "normal" ;-)

A namespace for variables also gives you the potential to define methods for the name space
itself. Here is an example with a name space that has an internal pointer class and lets
you create "pointers" to the "variables" in the namespace, using ns[vname] syntax, which
goes to the __getitem__ method of the class to make a "pointer" (__slots__ hopefully just
makes pointer instances better optimized):

 >>> class NSP(object):
 ...     """NSP defines name space with "pointer" creation via p = ns[vname]"""
 ...     class Ptr(object):
 ...         """Ptr instance holds ns ref and vname for access to ns.vname"""
 ...         __slots__ = 'ns', 'vname'
 ...         def __init__(self, ns, vname): self.ns=ns; self.vname=vname
 ...         def __getitem__(self, i):
 ...             """typical: x=p[:]"""
 ...             return getattr(self.ns, self.vname)
 ...         def __setitem__(self, i, v):
 ...             """Typical: p[:] = x"""
 ...             setattr(self.ns, self.vname, v)
 ...         def __delitem__(self, i):
 ...             """Typical: del p[:] # deletes what's pointed to"""
 ...             delattr(self.ns, self.vname)
 ...     def __getitem__(self, name):
 ...         """Make "pointer." Typical: p2x = ns['x']; p2x[:] => ns.x"""
 ...         return self.Ptr(self, name)
 ...
 >>> ns = NSP()
 >>> ns.x = 123
 >>> ns.y = 456
 >>> def change(x, py):
 ...     x = 'new x?'
 ...     py[:] = 'new via py[:]'
 ...
 >>> ns.x
 123
 >>> ns.y
 456
 >>> change(ns.x, ns['y']) # on the fly &y
 >>> ns.x
 123
 >>> ns.y
 'new via py[:]'
 >>>

You can also save a "pointer" and use it later, or pass it around:

 >>> px = ns['x']
 >>> px[:]
 123

( [:] is just sugar, since the arg is ignored. [0] will run faster, since no slice object is needed)

 >>> px[0]
 123
 >>> px[0] = 'new x value'
 >>> ns.x
 'new x value'
 >>>

Establish some new values:

 >>> ns.x = 123; ns.y = 456
 >>> ns.x, ns.y
 (123, 456)

An important distinction from using explicit byref attribute names (e.g. byref.y) in change():

 >>> change('byvalue', px) # note we are passing px in the py parameter position
 >>> ns.x, ns.y
 ('new via py[:]', 456)

I.e., change was passed a "pointer" it thought of  as pointing to y (i.e., was named "py"
by the programmer to suggest the meaning), but it pointed to x, and
so x changed when py[:] was assigned to. Changes to 'byvalue' were just local to change, as expected.

We can also delete an attribute via the pointer:
 >>> del px[0]
 >>> ns.x
 Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
 AttributeError: 'NSP' object has no attribute 'x'

which doesn't affect the "pointer" itself:
 >>> px[0]='an x again'
 >>> ns.x
 'an x again'

but of course deleting the pointer itself as opposed to px[0] will:
 >>> del px
 >>> ns.x
 'an x again'
 >>> px
 Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
 NameError: name 'px' is not defined

i.e., the pointer got deleted, not the thing pointed to.

I'm not necessarily recommending any of the above, but I thought it might give you some ideas.
There is definitely a performance hit in px[:] (or better, px[0]) vs byref.x to consider.

Anyway, I thought properties and descriptors might also come in handy somewhere in your quest ;-)

Raymond Hettinger has written a nice "How-To Guide for Descriptors":

    http://users.rcn.com/python/download/Descriptor.htm

and for properties (follow Table Of Contents link in below page) and much more there is

    http://www.python.org/2.2/descrintro.html

HTH

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From cybersamurai at mac.com  Tue Jul  8 15:49:30 2003
From: cybersamurai at mac.com (Luiz Siqueira Neto)
Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 16:49:30 -0300
Subject: id = -1 in wxpython
Message-ID: <3F0B204A.20004@mac.com>

id -1 for some object mean that this object have a default id, but how I 
can work with this kind of id?





From alan.gauld at btinternet.com  Mon Jul 21 03:24:02 2003
From: alan.gauld at btinternet.com (Alan Gauld)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 07:24:02 GMT
Subject: Newbie Questions?
References: <504413fa.0307200626.3fceb85a@posting.google.com> <9a410299.0307201513.7ba29781@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3f1b94b1.432205849@news.blueyonder.co.uk>

On 20 Jul 2003 16:13:15 -0700, klappnase at freenet.de (klappnase)
wrote:
> KodeKruncherDude at aol.com (Adam Petrosh) wrote in message news:<504413fa.0307200626.3fceb85a at posting.google.com>...
> > Hail all. Are newbie questions allowed here, or is there a different
> > Newsgroup for that? Thanks.
> 
> I think you may ask whatever you want, seems like you are not the only
> one around here.

But its worth also giving a plug to the python-tutor mailing list
which is specifically for newbie questions... :-)

Join via the python web site - communities - mailing lists.

Alan g
Author of the Learn to Program website
http://www.freenetpages.co.uk/hp/alan.gauld



From donn at drizzle.com  Sun Jul 13 23:40:05 2003
From: donn at drizzle.com (Donn Cave)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 03:40:05 -0000
Subject: anything like C++ references?
References: <13t0hvsb7idh0g6ac3upe5k0qd6flc17ah@4ax.com>  <lq-cnWRG9rRuMIyiXTWJjQ@comcast.com>  <b8c3hvsesjoumiboobml3nsnajtha99mp1@4ax.com>  <mailman.1058126720.6756.python-list@python.org>  <bet17l$gdp$1@panix3.panix.com> <mailman.1058150840.26704.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1058154004.286325@yasure>

On Sun, 2003-07-13 at 20:32, Aahz wrote:
> In article <mailman.1058126720.6756.python-list at python.org>,
|> Ian Bicking  <ianb at colorstudy.com> wrote:
|>>
|>> (Admittedly, some confusion may occur because these very different
|>> operations use the same syntax:
|>>
|>>  x = 10
|>>  x[0] = 10
|>>  obj.x = 10
|>>
|>> The second and third are entirely different from the first.)
|> 
|> No, they aren't.  They are precisely the same; they just have different
|> assignment targets.
|
| Sure they are different.  The first is a primitive operation binding the
| variable x.  The second gets x, and calls x.__setitem__(0, 10), and the
| third is equivalent to setattr(obj, 'x', 10).

I wonder if this is a good example of a mutability thing that really
is kind of missing to the detriment of Python.

If you want to support user-implemented sequences (as Python does)
but make Aahz's ``precisely the same'' assertion true in the sense
you're taking it - then I think the user-implemented indexing function
would have to return a reference to the index location.

   class UserArray:
       ...
       def __item__(self, index):
           return &self.internal_array[index]

   userArray[5] = 1
   (python internal)
       loc = UserArray.__item__(userArray, 5)
       *loc = 1

   if userArray[6] == 
   (python internal)
       loc = UserArray.__item__(userArray, 6)
       return *loc

There are other places where instead we use some kludge with a
mutable container type, but in this case I don't think there's
a way to get around it.  So whether we like the idea or not,
assignment to a user-implemented sequence doesn't have to involve
any assignment at all, because Python lacks the "pointer" type
(or "target" type, if you prefer) that would be required to
implement that.

	Donn Cave, donn at drizzle.com



From mcfletch at rogers.com  Sun Jul 20 06:54:18 2003
From: mcfletch at rogers.com (Mike C. Fletcher)
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 06:54:18 -0400
Subject: properties + types, implementing meta-class desciptors elegantly?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.51.0307201212360.9747@techunix.technion.ac.il>
References: <mailman.1058532630.7342.python-list@python.org> <bfa97g$s5j$0@216.39.172.122> <2259b0e2.0307190640.56266017@posting.google.com> <mailman.1058629890.30475.python-list@python.org> <bfc82v$hm8$0@216.39.172.122> <mailman.1058654317.6488.python-list@python.org> <Pine.GSO.4.51.0307201212360.9747@techunix.technion.ac.il>
Message-ID: <3F1A74DA.6000703@rogers.com>

Beni Cherniavsky wrote:

>Mike C. Fletcher wrote on 2003-07-19:
>
>  
>
>>    * finally, stores the value
>>          o tries to do what would have been done if there were no
>>            descriptor (with the new, coerced value)
>>          o does *not* create new names in the object's namespace (all
>>            names are documented w/ descriptors, there's not a lot of
>>            '_' prefixed names cluttering the namespace)
>>          o does *not* require a new dictionary/storage-object attribute
>>            for the object (the descriptor works like any other
>>            descriptor, a *stand-alone* object that replaces a regular
>>            attribute)
>>
>>It's that last part that I'd like to have a function/method to
>>accomplish.  That is, store (and obviously retrieve as well) attribute
>>values for objects, instances, types, classes, __slot__'d instances,
>>etceteras under a given name without triggering any of the __setattr__
>>machinery which defers to the __set__ method of the associated descriptor.
>>
>>I can work around the problem by violating either of those two bullet
>>points under "finally, stores the value", but I'm looking for something
>>that *doesn't* violate them.  See below for responses to particular
>>points...
>>
>>    
>>
>I didn't grasp your precise problem but I've been having some similar
>problems (without metaclasses however).  Two tricks:
>
>- Insert a dummy class into you heirarchy between object (or whatever
>  other superclass that doesn't have the properties yet and the class
>  where you install the properties.  Then you might be able to use
>  this class to access the underliying class dict without being
>  intercepted by the properties.  [I recall some problems with
>  properties vs. super, didn't follow them closely].
>
This violates the "does *not* require a new dictionary/storage-object 
attribute" constraint.  The super-class is just another way of spelling 
"special place to store data" within the class instance, albeit a nicely 
evil one :) .  I'm looking for something that doesn't require modifying 
classes to be property-aware just to add the properties, that is, a 
stand-alone property object should be able to do this stuff w/out 
requiring that the client objects know about the properties at all.

>- If you use __slots__, they are also implemented as properties.  So
>  if you define properties with the same name in the same class, you
>  lose all access to the raw slots.  The solution is similar: define
>  __slots__ in a superclass, hide them with properties in a sublass.
>  See http://www.technion.ac.il/~cben/python/streams.py for an
>  example.
>
Will look it up.  Basically, I'm not too worried about slotted instances 
yet.  I just think it should be part of whatever general solution Guido 
figures is best.

Have fun,
Mike

_______________________________________
  Mike C. Fletcher
  Designer, VR Plumber, Coder
  http://members.rogers.com/mcfletch/







From tomas at fancy.org  Fri Jul  4 19:25:23 2003
From: tomas at fancy.org (Tom Plunket)
Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 16:25:23 -0700
Subject: functors
References: <3jc4gvgn5rb4c4008eedg958ee594lu8p2@4ax.com> <mailman.1057130792.16396.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3b2cgvkod9cgnpm5a3noglm3qtp166t0re@4ax.com>

Jack Diederich wrote:

> I would make countdown dumber, and make the call more explicit
> 
> def countdown(thismany)
>   for (i) in range(thismany):
>     yield False
>   yield True
>   while True:
>     yield False

Hmm.  What's the yield doing here?  I can't find anything on it
in the PQR which has pretty much become my reference of choice
for Python.  I can guess at its function from what I know about
other languages, but ... hmmm.  Doesn't seem like what I want
really, and how would I restart it?  I'm guessing that yield is
akin to return here but the next time the function is called,
program flow resumes at the yield, but...  Yeah, I'm not really
sure how this solves my problem.

> But I'm not sure if this is what you really want, the countdown() 
> keeps going even after it has fired.  Hence the 'While True: 
> yield False'

Right- maybe a similar solution (three return values) that would
allow me to pop the "finished" countdowns off of a stack or
something.

thanks for your help.

-tom!



From jjl at pobox.com  Thu Jul 10 21:26:53 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 11 Jul 2003 02:26:53 +0100
Subject: for in sequence problem... possible new operator to add to python
References: <mailman.1057857017.7806.python-list@python.org> <3F0DE61E.1F38C291@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <87d6ghhmzm.fsf@pobox.com>

Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> writes:

> sismex01 at hebmex.com wrote:
> > 
> > > From: Peter Hansen [mailto:peter at engcorp.com]
> > > When you iterate over a dict in recent versions of Python, you
[...]
> Sorry, perhaps I should stop using the term "iterate" for its
> more widely known generic meaning of visiting each item in a 
> sequence one at a time, and restrict my usage only to those
> cases where in Python I'm talking about an actual "iterator"
> object.
> 
> ("Iterate" was a very general term... it would be a shame if
> one could no longer use it as such.)

I think you're correct even in the strict Python sense of the word
'iteration'.  Objects (eg. dicts and lists) that are not themselves
iterators can still support iteration.  Section 2.2.5 from the 2.2
library reference:

   Python defines several iterator objects to support iteration over
   general and specific sequence types, dictionaries, and other more
   specialized forms. ...


John



From theller at python.net  Wed Jul 23 13:45:07 2003
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 19:45:07 +0200
Subject: XML parser and py2exe
References: <84fc4588.0307200721.970b9d9@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <4r1dkuho.fsf@python.net>

pythonguy at Hotpop.com (Anand Pillai) writes:

> I am using the expat parser in the 'xml.parsers.expat' module in
> my code. The code works well as source, but the py2exe executable created
> using it does not. I get the following traceback.
>
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<string>", line 146, in ?
>   File "imputil.pyo", line 103, in _import_hook
>   File "<string>", line 52, in _import_top_module
>   File "imputil.pyo", line 216, in import_top
>   File "imputil.pyo", line 271, in _import_one
>   File "<string>", line 128, in _process_result
>   File "HarvestManConfig.pyo", line 110, in ?
>   File "imputil.pyo", line 103, in _import_hook
>   File "<string>", line 52, in _import_top_module
>   File "imputil.pyo", line 216, in import_top
>   File "imputil.pyo", line 271, in _import_one
>   File "<string>", line 128, in _process_result
>   File "HarvestManXMLParser.pyo", line 12, in ?
>   File "imputil.pyo", line 132, in _import_hook
>   File "<string>", line 70, in _finish_import
>   File "imputil.pyo", line 318, in _load_tail
> ImportError: No module named _xmlplus.parsers

The released version of py2exe isn't able to handle PyXML correctly.
Although the current CVS version can do it. If you can build it
yourself, you should try it.

I'm hesitating to make a new release at the moment because I hope to
solve the Python 2.3 problems, and also I have got a patch from Mark
Hammond for inproc com servers, which I would like to integrate.

Thomas



From jjl at pobox.com  Thu Jul 10 08:51:22 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 10 Jul 2003 13:51:22 +0100
Subject: A story about Python... sort of
References: <mailman.1057616412.8695.python-list@python.org> <3F0A0655.99823E25@alcyone.com> <87smphp2in.fsf@pobox.com> <2259b0e2.0307091344.73040406@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <874r1u5yut.fsf@pobox.com>

mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato) writes:
[...]
> Why do you disagree? I would think Erik is right.

Off-list, please!  (yeah, I'm a hypocrite)


John



From staschuk at telusplanet.net  Thu Jul 31 02:06:59 2003
From: staschuk at telusplanet.net (Steven Taschuk)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 00:06:59 -0600
Subject: time, calendar, datetime, etc
In-Reply-To: <153fa67.0307300326.45a29380@posting.google.com>; from kylotan@hotmail.com on Wed, Jul 30, 2003 at 04:26:39AM -0700
References: <153fa67.0307300326.45a29380@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20030731000659.B2806@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>

Quoth Kylotan:
  [...]
> And does datetime.timetuple() actually return something equivalent to
> a struct_time as used by the time module? At first glance this looks
> to be true, but it isn't clearly documented as such.

Isn't it?

    timetuple()
        Return a 9-element tuple of the form returned by time.localtime().

<http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/datetime-datetime.html>

> Personally I think 2 separate modules (1 high level, 1 low level
> corresponding to the C api) would suffice, or even to combine it all
> into one coherent module. Is there any benefit to the status quo that
> I am missing?

The bulk of the calendar module deals with creating and printing
strings and arrays representing calendar months.  Hardly
general-purpose; I wouldn't want to see such things in the
datetime module.

The exception, as you noted, is calendar.timegm(), which, indeed,
the docs describe as "unrelated but handy".

> PS. I use 'time.strptime(myTime, '%a %b %d %H:%M:%S %Y')' as a
> reverse-asctime(), and was surprised that I couldn't find this wrapped
> in a function in any of the modules. Maybe such a function would be
> considered for future addition?

Maybe indeed.

One consideration here is that the time module is, I think,
intended simply as a wrapper over the underlying C API.  Afaik
that API doesn't have convenience inverses of gmtime or asctime.

-- 
Steven Taschuk                          staschuk at telusplanet.net
"Its force is immeasurable.  Even Computer cannot determine it."
                           -- _Space: 1999_ episode "Black Sun"




From irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl  Sat Jul  5 06:57:24 2003
From: irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Sat, 05 Jul 2003 12:57:24 +0200
Subject: Collective memory
In-Reply-To: <hff5eb.e9h.ln@escape.shannon.net>
References: <mailman.1057083728.8224.python-list@python.org> <vg88va53uha8e@corp.supernews.com> <hff5eb.e9h.ln@escape.shannon.net>
Message-ID: <3f06af11$0$49113$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

Charles Shannon Hendrix wrote:
 > Python uses it for actually determining the logic in your program, which
 > IMHO is dangerous.
 >
 >     if <something>
 >         <work>
 >         <more work>
 >         <add numbers>
 >
 > Is <add numbers> part of the if statement, or did someone with different
 > tab settings from the author make a mistake and align it accidentally?

To catch such mistakes, Python has the -tt command line option:
-t     : issue warnings about inconsistent tab usage (-tt: issue errors)

There's also tabnanny.py in the standard library to check things
before executing code. I'm not sure, but I suspect that PyChecker
also checks this.


--Irmen




From staschuk at telusplanet.net  Sun Jul 20 14:04:20 2003
From: staschuk at telusplanet.net (Steven Taschuk)
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 12:04:20 -0600
Subject: classes
In-Reply-To: <pan.2003.07.20.12.30.11.157694@bogus.domain.org>; from pablo@bogus.domain.org on Sun, Jul 20, 2003 at 02:30:11PM +0200
References: <pan.2003.07.19.20.46.33.864915@bogus.domain.org> <ad052e5c.0307191826.144ad2a5@posting.google.com> <pan.2003.07.20.12.30.11.157694@bogus.domain.org>
Message-ID: <20030720120420.A438@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>

Quoth Pablo:
> [cut]
> >> 2) how to declare a static method
> > 
> >     class HasStaticMethod:
> >        def method(arg0, arg1):  # note the lack of "self"
> >           # do something with arg0 and arg1
> >        method = staticmethod(method)
> 
> That's not exactly what I wanted.
  [...]
> but Python does not allow to invoke any class method without providing an
> instance of the class object

Sure it does.  Allowing that is the purpose of the "staticmethod"
call in Dan's example.

Try it yourself:

    >>> class HasStaticMethod(object):
    ...     def mystaticmethod(x, y):
    ...         print x, y
    ...     mystaticmethod = staticmethod(mystaticmethod)
    ... 
    >>> HasStaticMethod.mystaticmethod(3, 4)
    3 4

No instance of HasStaticMethod exists here.

  [...]
> So my problem would be solved if I could create a class which would be
> seen only in its module (something like private class). Then I could
> create an object and simply use it across my application.
  [...]
> Is it possible to create a class and forbid its use outside its module?

No, not really.  (There's a philosophical reason: Java encourages
the attitude that other programmers can't be trusted to use your
code correctly, while Python encourages the attitude that other
programmers know what they're doing.  Thus there's not a lot of
mechanisms in Python to forbid other programmers from doing things
with your code.)

For the particular problem you're interested in -- singletons --
here are a few approaches:

First, use __new__ trickery:

    _the_instance = None
    class MySingleton(object):
        def __new__(self):
            global _the_instance
            if _the_instance is None:
                _the_instance = object.__new__(self)
            return _the_instance

Example use:

    >>> x = MySingleton()
    >>> y = MySingleton()
    >>> x is y  # same object!
    True

In this approach, users create instances of MySingleton as they
would for any other class (rather than by calling a getInstance
classmethod) -- that action just happens to return the same object
always.

One gotcha with this approach can be observed by adding

    def __init__(self):
        print 'running __init__ on instance %s' % id(self)

Then we see

    >>> x = MySingleton()
    running __init__ on instance 1075795852
    >>> y = MySingleton()
    running __init__ on instance 1075795852
    >>> x is y
    True

As shown, each "instantiation" runs __init__ on the single
instance again.  If you have initialization which should occur
only when the single instance is actually created:

    _the_instance = None
    class MySingleton(object):
        def __new__(self):
            global _the_instance
            if _the_instance is None:
                _the_instance = object.__new__(self)
                _the_instance._my_init()
            return _the_instance
        def _my_init(self):
            pass  # one-time initialization here

(Another possible issue with this approach arises when subclassing
MySingleton.  Details left as an exercise.)

Second approach: Use a metaclass.  See
    <http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/102187>

Third: forget about singletons and use a Borg.  See
    <http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/66531>
(With Borgs, multiple instances may exist, but they share state.)

Fourth: rethink the idea that a database connection should be a
singleton.  See
    <http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?SingletonsAreEvil>
and linked pages for discussion on the merits of singletons.

-- 
Steven Taschuk                                7\ 7'Z {&~         .
staschuk at telusplanet.net                        Y r          --/hG-
                                            (__/ )_             1^1`




From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Jul 14 14:35:19 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 14:35:19 -0400
Subject: Using  xml.xpath question.
References: <de5c7cc0.0307101347.2c707bf8@posting.google.com> <23891c90.0307110057.bbe91e3@posting.google.com> <cb035744.0307110917.7459191b@posting.google.com> <23891c90.0307140145.8d9ff70@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3F12F7E7.1DFB98BA@engcorp.com>

Paul Boddie wrote:
> 
> hwlgw at hotmail.com (Will Stuyvesant) wrote in message news:<cb035744.0307110917.7459191b at posting.google.com>...
> >
> > A very nice and helpful Paul Boddie in action on c.l.p.
> 
> Glad to be of some help. ;-)
> 
> > But OMFG!
> 
> Object Management F<something> Group?

First words are "Oh My", while last word references one's
personal deity.  The F word is left to personal choice as
well. ;-)

-Peter



From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sun Jul 13 10:37:01 2003
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 13 Jul 2003 10:37:01 -0400
Subject: anything like C++ references?
References: <000301c348c7$3c501980$21795418@dell1700> <jf22hvotj4n0q5tpkg627e3jv61norf93n@4ax.com> <3F11106A.65FDA8F2@alcyone.com> <iqm2hvs77lhe1m71v9b579070khbf0uv0a@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <berqqd$ad5$1@panix3.panix.com>

In article <iqm2hvs77lhe1m71v9b579070khbf0uv0a at 4ax.com>,
Stephen Horne  <intentionally at blank.co.uk> wrote:
>
>One of the few things I hate about Python is that mutable objects are
>implicitly shared using a reference system whereas immutable objects
>are not. 

Well, that's incorrect.  *ALL* Python objects are implicitly shared with
bindings.  The difference is whether updating the value referenced by a
target requires *re*binding the target or simply updating an object.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"Not everything in life has a clue in front of it...."  --JMS



From FBatista at uniFON.com.ar  Fri Jul  4 11:01:38 2003
From: FBatista at uniFON.com.ar (Batista, Facundo)
Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 12:01:38 -0300 
Subject: sys.setedefaultencoding()
Message-ID: <A128D751272CD411BC9200508BC2194D018856E2@escpl.tcp.com.ar>

Very strange (never happende to me before):

Learning (and needing it) Unicode, in Dive Into Python found the
sys.setedefaultencoding() method. Very nice, but in the documentation of the
2.2.1 version, says that this method is new in 2.0 version.

I've got installed Python 2.1.1 and when I do dir(sys), don't get that
method!! Strange. And ugly, :(

So, two questions:

	- Why this happens?
	- How can I, by a different method, set the default encoding?

Thanks a lot.

Facundo Batista
Gesti?n de Red
fbatista at unifon.com.ar
(54 11) 5130-4643
Cel: 15 5132 0132






From tl_news at nexgo.de  Wed Jul 30 13:03:49 2003
From: tl_news at nexgo.de (Tino Lange)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 19:03:49 +0200
Subject: Syntax: pointers versus value
References: <3F27F673.3000801@mathstat.concordia.ca>
Message-ID: <efufiv0a8p1vkfhqqtdgf2d84pusb7hjkt@4ax.com>

On Wed, 30 Jul 2003 12:46:43 -0400, Danny Castonguay
<castong at mathstat.concordia.ca> wrote:

Hi!

> Clearly, "listB = listA" 
>creates the problem.  listB and listA become two pointers to the same 
>object. 

Exactly.

> How then, do I duplicate the two objects; ie make a copy of the 
>  object that listA is pointing to and have listB point to that object.

Use:
listB = listA[:]

Cheers,

Tino




From hokiegal99 at hotmail.com  Sun Jul  6 16:32:37 2003
From: hokiegal99 at hotmail.com (hokiegal99)
Date: Sun, 06 Jul 2003 16:32:37 -0400
Subject: Using Loops to track user input
Message-ID: <bea0p6$17f$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>

I don't understand how to use a loop to keep track of user input. Could 
someone show me how to do what the program below does with a loop?

Thnaks!

----------------------------
#Write a program that reads 10 numbers from the user and prints out the 
sum of those numbers.

num0 = input("Enter a number: ")
num1 = input("Enter a number: ")
num2 = input("Enter a number: ")
num3 = input("Enter a number: ")
num4 = input("Enter a number: ")
num5 = input("Enter a number: ")
num6 = input("Enter a number: ")
num7 = input("Enter a number: ")
num8 = input("Enter a number: ")
num9 = input("Enter a number: ")

num = num0+num1+num2+num3+num4+num5+num6+num7+num8+num9

print num
----------------------------------




From Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org  Sat Jul 19 14:07:14 2003
From: Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org (Scott David Daniels)
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 11:07:14 -0700
Subject: compiling mysql-python for python 2.3 on windows
In-Reply-To: <bfavhb$o0a$05$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <bfavhb$o0a$05$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <3f197727$1@nntp0.pdx.net>

Achim Domma wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> I need mysql-python for python 2.3 on windows. I downloaded the source and
> tried to build it myself, but I get linker errors:
> 
> mysqlclient.lib(password.obj) : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol
> __ftol2
> 
> The problem seems to be, that the mysql lib is build with VC7, but distutils
> tries to compile with VC6 (which are both on my machine). Can I force
> distutils to use VC7? Or has somebody prebuild binaries for windows? Or has
> somebody another hint on how to get it working on windows? I have also mingw
> 3.2 installed, if it would be helpfull!?
> 
> regards,
> Achim

At least by rc1, 2.3 distutils supports VC 7.1.  Perhaps that fix
will allow VC7, and perhaps not.  Check the newest distutils docs
anway.

-Scott David Daniels
Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org





From intentionally at blank.co.uk  Mon Jul 14 01:10:03 2003
From: intentionally at blank.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 06:10:03 +0100
Subject: anything like C++ references?
References: <000301c348c7$3c501980$21795418@dell1700> <iqm2hvs77lhe1m71v9b579070khbf0uv0a@4ax.com> <berqqd$ad5$1@panix3.panix.com> <brs2hv8edfv0d1fch9mha8otuulajnkh0g@4ax.com> <bes0ps$l6$1@panix3.panix.com> <qi13hv4s21i8mtr2e600jumm54hqs7tppu@4ax.com> <mailman.1058125699.26133.python-list@python.org> <sag3hv4vf884ed7ouu5cv8ofnopp9j1t12@4ax.com> <f0f51c80.0307132003.264b6894@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <7dc4hvslh7a8fk9p6cvsfqa1c8d44rmmnv@4ax.com>

On 13 Jul 2003 21:03:59 -0700, owski at hotmail.com (Adam Ruth) wrote:

>I don't see the arbitrary change.  Python has one type of variable: A
>pointer that cannot itself be dereferenced.  It's much more consistent
>then having 3 types of variables (in C++).

I answered most of these arguments elsewhere (significantly with an
admission of stupidity) but your assertion here about C++ is wrong.

C++ has precisely one type of variable. That variable is a placeholder
for a value of a datatype which is specified in the declaration. The
datatype may be a pointer datatype, but so what? Pointer datatypes are
not treated any differently than other datatype except that they, like
all datatypes, they have their own set of functionality.

C++ references are tellingly also called self-dereferencing pointers.
They are not a distinct concept - they are syntactic sugar. I suspect
they mainly arise out of the modern desire to disguise pointers and
fantasize that they're not there, though they certainly work very well
in certain contexts.

>> One way or the other, Python is currently choosing not to respect the
>> computer science definition of those terms. It may have historic and
>> backward-compatability reasons, but that does not change the facts.
>> This deviation from computer science definitions, whatever the excuse,
>> is arbitrary, confusing and error prone. That is my problem.
>
>It's not respecting the static language definitions of those terms,
>but it shouldn't even try.  There are different meanings for those
>words in mathematics, but you wouldn't try to express those
>definitions in terms of C, it would be equally frustrating.  The
>static definitions are merely abstractions of the mathematic meanings,
>and the dynamic meanings are also abstract, but in a different
>direction.

Funny thing. When I use algebra, the variables I define don't end up
referring to different values, functions or whatever unless I
explicitly redefine them. When I write a definition on one piece of
paper, the things I wrote earlier on another sheet don't change.

Seems to me that the math equivalent of assignment (defining named
things) works very much like the 'static language definitions' as you
put it.




From jon+usenet at unequivocal.co.uk  Fri Jul 11 05:07:21 2003
From: jon+usenet at unequivocal.co.uk (Jon Ribbens)
Date: 11 Jul 2003 09:07:21 GMT
Subject: Sample Web application
References: <mailman.1057574470.1750.python-list@python.org> <kmolgv4mp12o71ocion7ra0m2s9fcrqjdk@4ax.com> <begc78$rui$1@mawar.singnet.com.sg> <VLicnfImRJLPkpGiRTvUqA@speakeasy.net> <behc69$o3t$1@news1.wdf.sap-ag.de> <mailman.1057772055.6056.python-list@python.org> <tYqcnZji2bzS5ZGiRTvUqg@speakeasy.net> <mailman.1057801994.30346.python-list@python.org> <u_ucnTmf55NP4pCiRTvUqA@speakeasy.net> <mailman.1057862838.7508.python-list@python.org> <slrnbgrtto.16p.jon+usenet@snowy.squish.net> <mailman.1057882397.1131.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrnbgsvi9.nl.jon+usenet@snowy.squish.net>

In article <mailman.1057882397.1131.python-list at python.org>, Ian Bicking wrote:
> FWIW, I spent a lot of time trying to get those two lines to work,
> ultimately failing (it was a while ago, so I'm afraid I can't expand). 
> It's entirely possible I was trying too hard and making it more
> complicated than it was... but configuring Apache in general is a pain,
> because diagnostics for that sort of configuration are largely
> nonexistent, you simply get incorrect behavior.  Or maybe I got Apache
> right, but the file layout wrong.  Whichever.

Certainly mod_rewrite can be difficult to get right. The redeeming
feature is RewriteLog which if you set it up to level 9 temporarily
while debugging means it is usually pretty clear what to do.

> My problems with FastCGI have been largely the same.  It shouldn't be
> complicated, but somehow manages to be so anyway.  The multitudes of
> FastCGI-reimplementors can't all be wrong, can they? ;)

I've definitely never found it complicated, there's a lot of server
options you can tweak but I've never needed to change any of them.
It's 1 line in the httpd.conf to say when to use the fastcgi handler.

Mind you, I have a habit of finding problems in things hundreds of
thousands of people have used without trouble also, so YMMV ;-)



From kth at srv.net  Mon Jul  7 18:16:22 2003
From: kth at srv.net (Kevin Handy)
Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 16:16:22 -0600
Subject: Collective memory (was: Good code patterns in Python)
References: <mailman.1057083728.8224.python-list@python.org> <vg88va53uha8e@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <3F09F136.6060000@srv.net>

Cameron Laird wrote:
> In article <mailman.1057083728.8224.python-list at python.org>,
> Bob Gailer  <bgailer at alum.rpi.edu> wrote:
> 			.
> 			.
> 			.
> 
>>This brings back the good old days of FORTRAN IV which had a 
>>single-statement IF and no ELSE. Thus:
>>      C = VALUE1
>>      IF ( A .EQ. B) C = VALUE2
>>Notice the indentation. Cols 1-5 were reserved for line # and col 6 for the 
>>continuation code. So Python is not the only indentation dependent 
>>language. Nor is it the first to use indentation to convey structure.
> 
FORTRAN isn't indentation dependent, it is position dependent.
There is a big difference between the two.

In FORTRAN, certial columns were allocated to specific purposes.
1-5 for the line number, 6 for comment/continuation, 7-75 for the
program line, 76-80 for sequence numbers. [iirc]

If you want a language that was even more position dependent than
fortran, look at RPG-II. You used printed forms for programming to
get the columns correct. One character in the wrong column would
change the meaning of that line.

In PYTHON, it is the indentation itself that matters, not the
actual column position.

> 			.
> 			.
> 			.
> Maybe youngsters don't realize this.
> 
> One monotonous but unremitting argument that Python inspires
> is about the wisdom of its white-space-significance (WSS).
> Modern programmers might not realize how strongly old-timers
> associate WSS with early FORTRAN and COBOL (as we capitalized
> them then), and how unpleasant some of those memories are.
> *That*, I assume, is why WSS discussions become as heated as
> they do.






From trash at kjn-law.de  Thu Jul  3 04:46:05 2003
From: trash at kjn-law.de (Theodor Rash)
Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 10:46:05 +0200
Subject: Good code patterns in Python
References: <mailman.1057079642.5798.python-list@python.org> <3f027b11$0$97204$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk> <mailman.1057139344.19908.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <e37dt-jsp.ln1@newsgate.kjn.lan>

Andrew Bennetts wrote:

> 
> if cond:
>     x = special_val
> else:
>     x = some_val
> 
> can be "read" more-or-less directly into English: "if the condition is
> true, then 'x' is set to 'special_val'; otherwise, 'x' is set to
> 'some_val'".
> Saying "'x' is set to 'some_val'.  Now, if some condition is true, 'x' is
> set to 'special_val'" is counter-intuitive to my way of thinking.
> 
> That said, I can readily recognise both idioms (despite having a slight
> preference for one form), so it's really a non-issue...
> 
ACK, but I'd like to add an additional aspect:
If the if-statement should work as a real switch, that is: one branch or the
other of two equivalent branches, than it should be coded in a way that the
reader recognizes the switch at first glance, with if/else.
If the condition is brought into the code to fit some rare exception, for
example to meet some hardware requirements that might get obsolete and
thrown out again in a later stage of maintenance, then the form 'x' is
set to 'special_val' is the right way, IMHO. But it should be accompanied
with a comment that indicates the purpose of that piece of code.
Anyway, instead of speculating about how some other programmer might perhaps
interpret the code that I wrote, I give him an explicit comment and I'm
done.
(Saw this sig somewhere: 'Comment my code?? Why do you think they call it
code?')  
Theo



From borcis at users.ch  Thu Jul 31 11:31:36 2003
From: borcis at users.ch (Borcis)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 17:31:36 +0200
Subject: Announcing issue 2 of The Agile Developer's Life free eZine
References: <l49iivciln0uhttc7seeb339gplev7lua8@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3F293658.3030609@users.ch>

DevCoach wrote:
> I have just published the second issue of The Agile Developer's Life
> (formerly called The Agile Life)

How much of Rumsfeld's special vocab does it port to computer programming ?




From ee01b092 at ee.iitm.ernet.in  Wed Jul 16 23:53:18 2003
From: ee01b092 at ee.iitm.ernet.in (Vinoo Vasudevan)
Date: 16 Jul 2003 20:53:18 -0700
Subject: Securing the Pyton Interpreter?
References: <slrnbh7q3f.kiv.usenet@norge.freeshell.org>
Message-ID: <45f7ff62.0307161953.1e33bb1@posting.google.com>

Stephen VanDahm <usenet at fomps.net> wrote in message news:<slrnbh7q3f.kiv.usenet at norge.freeshell.org>...
> I'm looking for a way to install Python on a UNIX machine in a way such 
> that any user on the system can use it, but only to execute scripts that 
> are located in a certain directory.  I do not have root access on the
> machine that will be running Python, so my options are limited.  I thought 
> about hacking the Python interpreter itself so that it will examine the 
> argument array and exit with an error if the script to be executed isn't 
> in the appropriate directory, but this seems pretty risky.  The module 
> 'site.py' is imported automatically upon initialization -- I've thought of 
> adding the check there instead.  I don't think either of these solutions 
> are very elegant.  Is there a better way?
> 
> Thanks for your time,
> 
> Steve VanDahm
> vandahm at norge.freeshell.org

Hi,
 Hacking the interpreter seems like overkill. Why not just set up a
shell script containing the names of the allowed python scripts, and
execute it from there.
for example:

#!/usr/bin/sh

if "$1" in myscript1.py myscript2.py ....;
then
 . /usr/bin/env python "$1"
else
  echo "You can't execute that script."
fi

My shell scripting is a little rusty so there may be some errors, but
I hope you get the general idea.

Hope it's useful,

Vinoo



From skip at pobox.com  Mon Jul 28 09:51:27 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 08:51:27 -0500
Subject: How to get success/failure in case of thread
In-Reply-To: <20030728175542.A23857@cs.unipune.ernet.in>
References: <20030728175542.A23857@cs.unipune.ernet.in>
Message-ID: <16165.10847.483917.787182@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    vivek>   import thread
    vivek>   thread.start_new_thread(my_func,(args,))

    vivek> here my_func will return true/1 on success and false/0 on
    vivek> failure. How can I check whether the function failed/succeeded
    vivek> ???

Have the function (or a wrapper function) put() the return value on a Queue
object, then get() it from there.

Skip




From bgailer at alum.rpi.edu  Thu Jul 24 15:26:23 2003
From: bgailer at alum.rpi.edu (Bob Gailer)
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 13:26:23 -0600
Subject: Mystery Theater New Style Classes
In-Reply-To: <XJecnYZhwsZQub2iXTWJiQ@comcast.com>
References: <mailman.1059062857.29503.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20030724132523.01d6d398@66.28.54.253>

At 02:26 PM 7/24/2003 -0400, Terry Reedy wrote:


>"Bob Gailer" <bgailer at alum.rpi.edu> wrote in message
>news:mailman.1059062857.29503.python-list at python.org...
> > Predict the output:
> >
> > class A(int):
> >      classval = 99
> >      def __init__(self, val = 0):
> >          if val:
> >              self = val
> >          else:
> >              self = A.classval
>
>I am not sure what the point is.  However,
>
>1.  Rebinding the local variable 'self' (or any other local variable)
>only affects further code within the function, which there is not any.
>So the above conditional is equivalent to 'pass'.
>
>2.  Because ints are immutable, the value of a new int is set within
>int.__new__, which is not overwritten.  Thus, the above __init__ is
>irrelevant.  In particular, the value of an A object has nothing to do
>with the defaulted parameter 'val=0'.
>
> > a=A(3)
>
>3. This is equivalent to a=int(3).  No surprises.
>
> > b=A()
>
>4. This is equivalent to b = int().  I thought this might raise an
>exception.  But after seeing the result (0). I remember Guido's
>decision (and a recent PyDev discussion thereof) that callable builtin
>types should, if possible, return a null value when getting a null
>input.  Hence
>
> >>> int(), long(), float(), tuple(), list(), dict()
>(0, 0L, 0.0, (), [], {})
>
> > print a,b
>3,0
>
>5. Result is same if 'val=0' is changed to 'val=9' or anything else.
>
> > [from OP's self followup] The question this leads to is: how does
>one access the value of such a class within a class method?
>
>Since there is no class method presented, this make not much sense.
>Bob: were you aware of 4.) above when you posted this?

There's a lot I was not aware of. Your reply and Bengt's have givem me what 
I needed.

Bob Gailer
bgailer at alum.rpi.edu
303 442 2625
-------------- next part --------------

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Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.500 / Virus Database: 298 - Release Date: 7/10/2003

From marc.engel at recif.com  Wed Jul 30 09:59:47 2003
From: marc.engel at recif.com (Marc ENGEL)
Date: 30 Jul 2003 06:59:47 -0700
Subject: pythoncom: STA python COM server randomly does not receive event from other objects : deadlock
References: <6411841c.0307300119.46bc0159@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <6411841c.0307300559.74557d9a@posting.google.com>

I'd like to add that just setting the Python COM object to Inproc
instead of Local server makes the all thing work properly.
But I need a Local server...

It works without modifying a line of code!

Marc

marc.engel at recif.com (Marc ENGEL) wrote in message news:<6411841c.0307300119.46bc0159 at posting.google.com>...
> Hi all,
> 
> I coded a python COM object that runs in a pythonw local server as a
> STA.
> 
> This object creates and advises a VC++ COM object to receive its
> event. Those events are sent by worker threads.
> 
> The VC++ object is free threaded. As a consequence call between my STA
> python object and apartment are marshalled through proxy.
> 
> The python COM object regularly calls a blocking method on the VC++
> object to synchronize. But, as it is a cross apartment call, during
> the call it can gets the event handler called thanks to the message
> pump operated by COM.
> 
> But sometimes events are no received and it seems that I enter a
> deadlock.
> When I attach to the VC+ object, I can see that the thread that made
> the Fire_XX is still waiting for the call to end.
> 
> Does somedy know the reason?
> 
> Does the COM message pump may be different from the pythoncom message
> pump located in localserver.py : pythoncom.PumpMessages ?
> 
> Thanks in advance for any hint, because this is a very blocking issue
> for my project.
> 
> Marc



From staschuk at telusplanet.net  Thu Jul 17 20:04:13 2003
From: staschuk at telusplanet.net (Steven Taschuk)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 18:04:13 -0600
Subject: Recursion in compile()
In-Reply-To: <781faf41.0307171037.142956f6@posting.google.com>; from naren@trillium.com on Thu, Jul 17, 2003 at 11:37:11AM -0700
References: <781faf41.0307161629.6295618b@posting.google.com> <mailman.1058409301.23691.python-list@python.org> <781faf41.0307171037.142956f6@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20030717180413.B931@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>

Quoth Narendra C. Tulpule:
  [...]
> I was trying something like 
> cobj = compile('eval(src_code)', ...)
> eval(cobj)
> And that complains about syntax error (because I am trying to define a
> function within eval string?)

That would do it -- with a string argument, eval only does
expressions, not statements (and so in particular, not def
statements).

Try
    compile('exec src_code')
instead.

-- 
Steven Taschuk                            staschuk at telusplanet.net
Every public frenzy produces legislation purporting to address it.
                                                  (Kinsley's Law)




From intentionally at blank.co.uk  Thu Jul 17 14:11:13 2003
From: intentionally at blank.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 19:11:13 +0100
Subject: anything like C++ references?
References: <mailman.1058377226.21359.python-list@python.org>   <20030716130631003-0600@news.xmission.com>   <8sdbhvk5b5ia2onmbca4ajkaidpu3ht9ed@4ax.com>  <20030716160013839-0600@news.xmission.com>  <jkjbhvg9hcvi937ief7f1copskmogpfbmj@4ax.com> <20030716180329385-0600@news.xmission.com>
Message-ID: <7lmdhv4id47rfluluvbbl70s0obfk18prc@4ax.com>

On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 00:03:38 +0000 (UTC), Adam Ruth
<owski at hotmail.com> wrote:

>Anyway, glad we cleared that up.  Sorry about misrepresenting you, I 
>really thought you were talking about Python.  In retrospect, my 
>metaphor wasn't very clear.

And in restrospect, I appologise too - of course the disguising
pointers thing was about Python and the fact that people *do* fake
pointers. But the "when you really can't avoid pointers" had no place
being carried over as in Python you can avoid pointers (including
faked pointers).

I should have though about that before replying - what I didn't state,
I certainly did imply and wrongly. Sorry again.

>I don't see it as a side effect, I see it as the core design.  
>References are a very concrete type, they happen to be implemented as 
>pointers in C.  In Java they're not implemented as pointers, I'm not 
>sure what they're implemented with, but it isn't pointers.  In that case 
>it must pass by reference (ala Java), but the semantics in Python of 
>passing references by value is maintained.

The terms 'pointer' and 'reference' are actually different names for
essentially the same thing - an indirect way of accessing something
else. The distinction between the terms is somewhat artificial, and
the meanings vary according to your background. For example, the ML
'reference' would probably be called a pointer by a C++ programmer as
it requires explicit dereferencing using a dereference operator. But
note the word 'reference' embedded within 'dereference', even when
applied to a pointer.

Different name, different syntactic quirks, but basically the same
thing. It's just that references (as in things that don't need
explicit dereferencing) tend to limit errors simply by limiting the
ways you can use them.

I just got tired of typing 'pointer/reference'.

At some point, however, there must be some kind of manipulation of
hardware addresses - maybe in the implementation of the language,
maybe in the next layer down, or whatever. Even if you use a C
fixed-size array, the implementation in assembler is using essentially
pointer math to implement it. That pointer math is so exposed in C,
actually, that in most cases you can treat a pointer as an array and
visa versa (sizeof being the only exception I can think of off the top
of my head).

Anyway, this kind of thing is not what I want from a high level
language. What I would want (in the alternate universe I mentioned
elsewhere) is actually a simpler version of what we already have - a
mutable container that always holds exactly one item. That would do
the important jobs of a pointer, but being explicitly meant the job it
would cause less confusion and would have less potential for errors.

Even if it were dereferenced using '[0]' that is still doing the job
of a pointer. I'd simply like to see it dereferenced in a way that
doesn't suggest a '[1]' or '[2]' might be used. And in some contexts,
implicit dereferencing might well be the way to go. Variable
parameters being an important example.

>> No, my background isn't just in C - that is a long way from being the
>> first language I used, and I've used Python regularly longer than C++.
>
>I wasn't referring to you, but to the people that come to the newsgroup 
>and ask questions about it.

OK - sorry for taking that personally, then.




From Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org  Thu Jul 24 02:49:37 2003
From: Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org (Scott David Daniels)
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 23:49:37 -0700
Subject: python 2.2 string conversion ?
In-Reply-To: <FaKTa.117362$Io.10011057@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
References: <FaKTa.117362$Io.10011057@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <3f1f8181@nntp0.pdx.net>

ken wrote:
> I've been looking for a solution to a string to long conversion problem that
> I've run into
>>>>x = 'e10ea210'
>>>>print x
> e10ea210
>>>>y=long(x)
> 
How about:
	y = long(x, 16)




From vm_usenet at yahoo.com  Wed Jul  2 04:39:40 2003
From: vm_usenet at yahoo.com (vm_usenet)
Date: 2 Jul 2003 01:39:40 -0700
Subject: A possible bug in python threading/time module?
Message-ID: <c09aca51.0307020039.5f2f4495@posting.google.com>

Hi everyone,

I've been running this segment of code (slightly simplified to
emphasize the main part):

----START of Script----

import time
import threading

sem = threading.Semaphore(2048)

class MyThread(threading.Thread):
    def __init__(self):
        threading.Thread.__init__(self)
        sem.acquire()
    
    def run(self):
        j = 0
        for i in range(1000):
            j = j+1
        time.sleep(60)
        sem.release()

#main
for i in range(4096):
    MyThread().start()

----END of Script----

I ran it on python 2.2.2 and python 2.3b1, and on both all of the
threads started successfully, acquiring the semaphore until 0
resources were left.
However, about 10-20 threads remain active after a while (and the
semaphore is lacking resources, respectively). I waited for about two
hours, and nothing changed - it appears to be hanging. Did anyone
encounter this behaviour before?
Am I the only one who ran into this situation? Is this a bug?

Thanx in advance

vm



From allisonb at terralogicgis.com  Thu Jul 17 20:43:44 2003
From: allisonb at terralogicgis.com (A.Bailey)
Date: 17 Jul 2003 17:43:44 -0700
Subject: Open MS Excel Spreadsheet with Python
References: <mailman.1058229111.12248.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1c057c8e.0307171643.486e9678@posting.google.com>

"Allison Bailey" <allisonb at terralogicgis.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.1058229111.12248.python-list at python.org>...
> Hi Folks,
> 
> I would like to open an existing MS Excel spreadsheet and extract
> information from specific worksheets and cells.
> 
> Then, I get errors when I try the following:
> sh = wb.worksheets(1)
> 
Thanks to everyone for suggestions, hints, and code, particularly the
ideas about where to find more information.  I know that MS Excel is
not every Open Source-er's idea of a good time, but my plan is to get
my data out of there as fast as I can and do the fun stuff in Python!

It turns out, as some people pointed out, that after running the
makepy utility, the methods become case-sensitive, so it should have
read:
sh = wb.Worksheets(1)
and everything would have gone smooth as silk!

And yes, I would love to preview Excel/Python code if you would like
to pass it along to me.

Allison



From max at nospam.com  Wed Jul 30 13:25:05 2003
From: max at nospam.com (max)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 17:25:05 GMT
Subject: Misuse of <tab>
In-Reply-To: <vifvcvqdd4mf4@news.supernews.com>
References: <3f27f0e3$1@news.broadpark.no> <vifvcvqdd4mf4@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <RbTVa.8214$gU6.967766@twister.nyc.rr.com>

> You're quite right - mixing spaces and tabs when indenting is
> not the thing to do. In fact, it's warned against in a number of
> places. The recommended practice is to use spaces, and
> avoid tabs completely.
> 
> I think you'll find that all the modules in the standard library
> use spaces exclusively.
The problem with spaces is that you need to do 5 times the work of a tab 
to get decent-looking indentation :).




From sschwarzer at sschwarzer.net  Sat Jul 26 08:49:41 2003
From: sschwarzer at sschwarzer.net (Stefan Schwarzer)
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 14:49:41 +0200
Subject: How safe is modifying locals()?
In-Reply-To: <ZqlUa.102243$XV.6096809@twister.austin.rr.com>
References: <BDcUa.100193$XV.6037947@twister.austin.rr.com>	 <MvCdnTkcoJNP_7yiXTWJjw@comcast.com>	 <WMdUa.100343$XV.6044659@twister.austin.rr.com> <mailman.1059173799.17228.python-list@python.org> <ZqlUa.102243$XV.6096809@twister.austin.rr.com>
Message-ID: <bfttd5$gtc$1@online.de>

Hi Paul

Paul Paterson wrote:
> This is a very interesting (and Pythonic) approach, thanks for 
> suggesting it! This is certainly what I would try to do if I were 
> writing the code from scratch. It may be possible to construct a 
> "namespace" type object which gets passed to the function.

I think the most common way to make a namespace in Python is

class my_namespace: pass
...
my_namespace.a = 'foo'
my_namespace.b = 'bar'

Such namespaces are very similar to dictionaries:

my_namespace = {}
...
my_namespace['a'] = 'foo'
my_namespace['b'] = 'bar'

but the first approach is a bit more readable.

If you need many containers, you could use:

class Container:
     pass

c1 = Container()
c2 = Container()
...
c1.foo = 'foo'
c2.foo = 'bar'

Of course, if you have a better name for your container, that's even
better. Think of Ian's Point example. :-)

Stefan




From peter at engcorp.com  Wed Jul 16 11:49:15 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 11:49:15 -0400
Subject: Python Quiz
References: <mailman.1058359706.27031.python-list@python.org> <bf3kb4$2gh$1@news.wrc.xerox.com> <3F156952.AD24AAB8@engcorp.com> <3f156c23$0$166$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
Message-ID: <3F1573FB.8ADBE587@engcorp.com>

Grant Edwards wrote:
> 
> Though I was recently surprised
> that the remove() method for lists uses "==" and not "is" to
> determine what to remove.  It's documented that it works that
> way. But, it wasn't what I excpected, and it took me a while to
> figure out that it was using my class's __cmp__ method rather
> than the object ID.

Probably a very good thing, considering what would happen if 
you were trying to remove strings from the list, rather than
simple things like integers...

-Peter



From bokr at oz.net  Wed Jul  2 16:09:47 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 2 Jul 2003 20:09:47 GMT
Subject: Suggesting for overloading the assign operator
References: <6f03c4a5.0306301931.3f15fbb7@posting.google.com> <mailman.1057072504.30095.python-list@python.org> <bdteop$t9u$0@216.39.172.122> <mailman.1057156208.3507.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bdve6b$2nq$0@216.39.172.122>

On Wed, 2 Jul 2003 08:21:57 -0600, Steven Taschuk <staschuk at telusplanet.net> wrote:

>Quoth Bengt Richter:
>  [...suggests a := b equivalent to a.__update__(b)...]
>> I guess it's a matter of what kind of sugar you like ;-)
>
>Quite.
>
>  [...syntactic support for Currency objects...]
>> I'm not sure what that would mean.
>
>I meant a language like Python but with a Currency literal syntax.
>With syntax such as, say,
>    123.45$  equivalent to  Currency(123.45)
>(except, perhaps, for decimal vs binary exactness issues), the
>users could type
>    a = 7$
>    # ...
>    a = 6$
>which is less onerous than writing Currency(7), Currency(6).
>
>This idea is well-suited to the scenario in which the users make
>pervasive use of objects of this type, and the main problem is
>having to type "Currency" over and over again.

Hm, it just occurred to me that one could have yet another form of sugar
[ It's now later, and I think this may be more than sugar ;-) ]
to help with this, by treating the dot operator slightly more symmetrically,
like, e.g., '+'.

Example, then explanation:

     a = 7 .USD   # (using symbols from http://www.xe.com/iso4217.htm by convention, no hard defs)
     # ...
     a = 6 .USD

This example uses the fact that int has no methods with plain names, so 6 .__getattribute__('USD')
will fail. Normally that would be the AttributeError end of it, but if '.' were like '+', we could
look for the r-version of __getattribute__ on the other object, analogous to __radd__. Thus

     6 .USD  # => USD.__rgetattribute__(6)

(note necessary disambiguating space here is not necessary in unambiguous contexts)
could return a specific currency object, e.g., if USD were defined something like e.g.,
(untested sketch !!)
--
     class XXX_Currency(FixedPoint):
         def __init__(self, symbol, *valprec):
             FixedPoint.__init__(self, *valprec)
             self.symbol = symbol
         def __rgetattribute__(self, other):
             return self.__class__(self.symbol, other, self.get_precision())

     USD = XXX_Currency('USD')
--
Alternatively, perhaps USD could be a class from a factory instead of an instance, and have
__rgetattribute__ as a class method.

BTW,

     num = 6
     num = num.USD

would do the expected. I.e., this would be a dynamic mechanism, not a tweaked literal syntax.

Obviously this could be used for other quantity units than currencies, e.g.,

    distance_to_moon = 384467 .km   # avg dist

I.e., the mechanism is conceived in terms of an __rgetattribute__ method analogous to __radd__,
where you look for a compatible method in the other if the left arg can't handle it.
This could then allow a general mechanism for all types, not just numerics, yet constrain it
to special methods, to avoid accidental connections. Thus for an int,

    6 . USD # => USD.__rgetattr__(6)

but also, this kind of binary-op attribute computation could supply missing methods, e.g.,
for simple file objects. Thus

    f.readlines()

would effectively become

    readlines.__rgetattribute__(f)()

if there were no readlines method on f, and this could
wrap f on the fly to provide the missing readlines method.

Am I being a troublemaker? ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From intentionally at blank.co.uk  Sun Jul 13 13:51:47 2003
From: intentionally at blank.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 18:51:47 +0100
Subject: anything like C++ references?
References: <000301c348c7$3c501980$21795418@dell1700> <iqm2hvs77lhe1m71v9b579070khbf0uv0a@4ax.com> <berqqd$ad5$1@panix3.panix.com> <brs2hv8edfv0d1fch9mha8otuulajnkh0g@4ax.com> <bes0ps$l6$1@panix3.panix.com>
Message-ID: <qi13hv4s21i8mtr2e600jumm54hqs7tppu@4ax.com>

On 13 Jul 2003 12:19:08 -0400, aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) wrote:

>Whether one can mutate a specific object is simply an
>attribute of that object, rather than requiring a different syntax.
>Trying to focus on the mutable/immutable distinction is what causes the
>mental blowup -- keep your eye on the objects and bindings and you're
>fine.

That's exactly it - you have to focus on whether an object is mutable
or immutable for that exact reason.

While I admit I'm not sure, I believe that in early versions of Python
immutable values literally were copied. Mutable types were made
mutable because of efficiency concerns about copying overheads that
would occur otherwise. If an object is large enough that it is
worthwhile modifying items within it in-place then it tends to be
worthwhile trying to avoid copying overheads, even though these two
aspects of 'mutability' are actually quite distinct in principle.

Actually, I'm convinced there are some flaws in Guidos own logic
*unless* this is the case. Take for instance this...

http://www.python.org/search/hypermail/python-1992/0292.html

"""
<A> They serve different purposes. Lists can get quite long, they are
generally built incrementally, and therefore have to be mutable.
Tuples on the other hand are generally short and created at once.


<Q> Then why can't tuples be mutable and serve both purposes?


<A> Imagine a graphics class that stores coordinates of graphical
objects as tuples. It may also store rectangles as a tuple of points,
etc. If tuples were mutable, the class would have to store copies of
all points and rectangles it receives, since otherwise a caller who
creates a point variable, passes its value to the graphics class, and
later changes the point for its own use (e.g., to create another
graphical object with slightly different coordinates) might violate
the internal consistency of the graphics class. Note that most
callers woouldn't modify the points, but the graphics class has no way
to tell, so it has to make the copies anyway. (And now imaging the
software is actually layered in such a way that coordinates are passed
down several levels deep...)
"""

So what?

As things are, the points could be stored using a list of tuples, with
each tuple representing a point. When you store a new point in the
list, you don't immediately make a copy (so if the supplier of the
point immediately discards it, no copying is needed at all except for
pointers) so it is efficient - yet you are still guarenteed that
external processing will not mutate the value you hold in your list.

Fine.

But that can be achieved equally well by applying a copy-on-write
system to *all* types, without a distinction between mutable and
immutable for this purpose.

Equally, you could use the same rationale for storing items which
Python classes as mutable instead of these point tuples. If you have
an object which stores class instances or dictionaries or lists for
you, you need to store copies as - just as Guido recognised for the
tuple case - your object doesn't know for sure what the caller is
going to do with those objects after passing them in as parameters.

This makes no sense to me *unless* there were other reasons for the
mutable/immutable distinction. If lists had copy-on-write semantics,
they could still be mutable (ie support in-place modification) yet
there would be no need to make early copies. Tuples would be redundant
as their only distinctive feature would be their lack of support for
in-place modifications. It only makes sense if the copy-on-write for
immutable values hadn't been implemented when the distinction was
created - if immutables did not use references, but were always copied
immediately on assignment - so that the referencing mechanism need
never worry about copy-on-write at all.


But it is worse than just being an arbitrary and pointless
distinction...

Back when PEP238 was being 'debated', a major argument in favor of the
change was that there is no legitimate case where a function would
need to either do 'true' division or integer division depending on the
argument type. The type of division needed depends on the purpose of
the function, and behaviour shouldn't change just because someone
passes an integer into a function that expects a real or visa versa.

Apply the same logic to mutable and immutable types.

Tell me one case where it is sensible for a function to behave such
that whether the caller sees a change in a variable it passed as its
argument should depend on the type.

Tell me one case where an object storing values should care about
callers mutating values it holds *only* for certain types.

I doubt you can.

This is an arbitrary distinction created for historic reasons that
have long since vanished (apart, of course, from backward
compatibility and psychological inertia), given that copy-on-write is
implemented for immutable objects anyway. And the fact that immutable
values do an excellent job of implementing the common semantics of
most imperitive languages (i.e. assignment sets the LHS to something
that can be treated as a distinct copy) whereas mutable types behave
in a fundamentally different way is quite simply a wart -
inconsistent, confusing and error-prone behaviour.




From alanmk at hotmail.com  Tue Jul  1 08:34:55 2003
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 13:34:55 +0100
Subject: Python hosting?
References: <bdruli$10i9il$1@ID-174077.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <3F017FEF.D499AA5B@hotmail.com>

MK wrote:

> Can anybody recommend a good hosting package
> for Python? Must be cheap, that is max. $5 per month.
> 
> If the solution offers Java+MySQL as well, that would
> be great!

Check out the Python Hosting Wiki, which is the most authoritative list I've
come across.

http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/moinmoin/PythonHosting

HTH,

-- 
alan kennedy
-----------------------------------------------------
check http headers here: http://xhaus.com/headers
email alan:              http://xhaus.com/mailto/alan



From mhammond at skippinet.com.au  Wed Jul 23 19:44:12 2003
From: mhammond at skippinet.com.au (Mark Hammond)
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 09:44:12 +1000
Subject: Newbie question about Python & W2K Admin
In-Reply-To: <86d2ca4.0307231125.70ee3f57@posting.google.com>
References: <86d2ca4.0307231125.70ee3f57@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bfn6k9$2rv1$1@arachne.labyrinth.net.au>

stuartc wrote:
> Hi all:
> 
> I need to change a few Local Security Settings on a number of W2K
> machines. An example of a Security Setting I need to change is the
> "Minimum password length" setting, which is under Account Policies,
> Password Policy.
> 
> Instead of doing this manually on each machine, I would like to have
> an automated way to do this.  Can Python be used for this ?
> 
> Any direction on how to automate this using Python or some other tool
> will be greatly appreciated.

Look into the win32net module - you can change all sorts of things 
there.  "Python Programming on Win32" has some good examples.

Mark




From yvan_charpentier at hotmail.com  Fri Jul 11 15:59:07 2003
From: yvan_charpentier at hotmail.com (yvan)
Date: 11 Jul 2003 12:59:07 -0700
Subject: Create another Excel instance
References: <9ee55987.0307101339.701965a7@posting.google.com> <FZmPa.28943$EQ5.7055@twister.nyroc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <9ee55987.0307111159.6978676e@posting.google.com>

"Cy Edmunds" <cedmunds at spamless.rochester.rr.com> wrote in message news:<FZmPa.28943$EQ5.7055 at twister.nyroc.rr.com>...
> "yvan" <yvan_charpentier at hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:9ee55987.0307101339.701965a7 at posting.google.com...
> > I am using Excel to save data.
> > Everything works as i intend it to if no other instance of Excel is
>  running.
> > If another instance is running, it will do the job, but also close that
>  instance.
> > How can i prevent that from happening?
> >
> > Here is the code that creates and deletes the instance:
> > class CExcel:
> >     def __init__(self, bVisible = 0):
> >         import sys
> >         import pythoncom
> >         sys.coinit_flags = 0
> >         pythoncom.CoInitializeEx(pythoncom.COINIT_MULTITHREADED)
> >         import win32com.client.dynamic
> >         self.xlApp = win32com.client.dynamic.Dispatch("Excel.Application")
> >         self.xlApp.Visible = bVisible
> >         self.xlBook = self.xlApp.Workbooks.Add()
> >         self.xlSheet = self.xlApp.ActiveSheet
> >
> >     def __del__(self):
> >         import pythoncom
> >         if self.xlSheet != None:
> >             del(self.xlSheet)
> >         if self.xlBook != None:
> >             self.xlBook.Close(0)
> >             del(self.xlBook)
> >         if self.xlApp != None:
> >             self.xlApp.Quit()
> >             del(self.xlApp)
> >         pythoncom.CoUninitialize()
> >
> > Thank for your help,
> >
> > -Yvan
> 
> I haven't tried this myself but maybe...
> 
> if self.xlApp != None:
>     nbook = self.xlApp.Workbooks.Count # number of open workbooks
>     if nbook == 0:
>         self.xlApp.Quit()
> 
> Let us know how you made out.

It looks like that would work if 'Visible' was set to 1. Unfortunately
mine has to be 0. Thanks for the suggestion.
Basically, my problem is that the object uses the same process if an
instance of Excel already exists.
How can i create the new instance in a different process?



From gh at ghaering.de  Wed Jul  9 06:13:14 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 12:13:14 +0200
Subject: format discs.
In-Reply-To: <pan.2003.07.09.08.22.10.853337.9435@hotmail.com>
References: <pan.2003.07.09.08.22.10.853337.9435@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <3F0BEABA.1090003@ghaering.de>

Flanagan wrote:
> hello to all 
> 
> somebody can say to me whereupon I modulate of python I can format 
> discs.

You probably mean creating a filesystem on a partition. In Windoze-speak 
that's stupidly called "to format".

The easiest solution for Windows is to just call format.exe with the 
appropriate parameters. This can be done in various ways from Pythno, 
the simplest one being os.system. Other options are the commands and 
popen2 modules, depending on wether you need to read the output of 
format.exe.

Similarly on *nix, call mkfs.

-- Gerhard




From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Jul 14 21:33:23 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 21:33:23 -0400
Subject: Next meeting of Toronto Python User Group: Tue July 29 8pm
Message-ID: <mailman.1058245266.32298.clpa-moderators@python.org>

The next regular meeting of the Greater Toronto Area Python 
User Group (aka PyGTA) will occur on Tuesday July 29 at 
8pm in the usual location.  See the wiki page at 
http://web.engcorp.com/pygta/wiki/NextMeeting for details.

There are as of yet no offers of presentations, but the last two 
meetings seemed to be well received so maybe we'll continue the impromptu-presentation-with-laptop-with-broken-keyboard style
of meetings...  ;-)

A projector should be available for use *if* requested in advance.

See you there!

-Ian Garmaise, Peter Hansen, PyGTA organizers




From Vincent.Raaijmakers at ge.com  Thu Jul 31 16:19:01 2003
From: Vincent.Raaijmakers at ge.com (Raaijmakers, Vincent (IndSys, GE Interlogix))
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 15:19:01 -0500
Subject: Solved: SQL2000 database vs python, using mssqldb and Pyro
Message-ID: <55939F05720D954E9602518B77F6127F02F873F6@FTWMLVEM01.e2k.ad.ge.com>

Problem solved!!

Forgot to put the owner in front of the table name.
so: vincent.my_table instead of my_table.

Thanks guys!

-----Original Message-----
From: Raaijmakers, Vincent (IndSys, GE Interlogix) 
Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2003 2:47 PM
To: python-list at python.org
Subject: SQL2000 database vs python, using mssqldb


First of all, thanks for all the help guys!

Until now, lots of install problems on all the recommended packages/modules.

For now, my best option was to make use of my existing Pyro framework (thanks Irmen!)
I already build a MSSQL (Pyro/server)service on the windows box using mssqldb.
My linux app will talk to this service.
This at least has been installed successful and my service can already connect to the database.

So far so good: Now, I can't find the API of MSSQL. Not on the website nor in the installed folders. 
So, I tried to use the examples and only the connections seems successful.
When I try a select on a table, it tells me that the table name is an invalid object name.

Just tried a kind of a hello world example...

import mssqldb
import MSSQL
db = MSSQL.connect('my_db_server', 'user', 'password', 'my_database')
## so far, so good

c = db.cursor()
c.execute('select * from my_table')
## boom, error

c.fetchall()
c.nextset()

The ms sql enterprise manager shows me that the database and table is there.
Unfortunately, in python the error tells me: Invalid object name 'my_table'

Anyone with experience?
Where are the API's?

Vincent


-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list




From maney at pobox.com  Sun Jul 13 01:15:01 2003
From: maney at pobox.com (Martin Maney)
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 05:15:01 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Nice presentation of Dana Moore on Oscon
References: <3F0E63AA.4000107@embeddedsystems.nl> <bemi6m$evd$1@panix3.panix.com>
Message-ID: <beqpsl$6k3$1@wheel2.two14.net>

Aahz <aahz at pythoncraft.com> wrote:
> Unfortunately, Bruce Eckel has been perpetuating that terminology.  I'm
> in the process of writing a rebuttal.

> http://www.artima.com/intv/typing.html

In this it sounds as though Mr. Eckel is coming around to the right view. 
In the first part he seems to be using "latent", and only says at one
point "...latent typing, sometimes called weak typing...".  And he
repeatedly uses the phrase "strong static type checking" for what is
supposed to be the strength of C++ and Java, and notes that "Strong
static type checking forces the programmer to do a lot of extra work."

So I get the impression that he is making that journey of discovery
that we know so well.  Or, anyway, I know it - maybe you didn't go
through the same wringer that made B&D static type checking seem like a
pretty good idea in contrast to what came before?  I used to think C++
was the best thing since the symbolic assembler, or maybe object [code]
linking...

I don't know that I care much for "latent typing", although it has a
certain attraction.  If nothing else, it's shorter than "strong dynamic
typing", the first word of which seems necessary these days.  :-(

But whether or not Mr. Eckel is still contributing to it, I can attest
that there is a general confusion about this among programmers, perhaps
especially java programmers.  Just the other day I whacked one upside
the head (virtually; we were chatting on IRC) with the distinction
between "strong" and "static" typing and had the pleasure of watching
his eyes light up.  Well, I imagine they lit up.  But that was only
one, so if you'd get cracking on that paper...  :-)

-- 
Passport brilliantly combines the kludgey and unstable nature of NIS+
with the insecurity of the trusted hosts concept to produce
a nine-step process with obvious opportunities for
security and other abuses.  -- Paul Murphy



From db3l at fitlinxx.com  Thu Jul 10 11:38:33 2003
From: db3l at fitlinxx.com (David Bolen)
Date: 10 Jul 2003 11:38:33 -0400
Subject: mx.DateTime.Parser.DateFromString('crap')
References: <bejgg6$9nq$1@rzmux02.rz.uni-augsburg.de>
Message-ID: <uznjmqtmu.fsf@fitlinxx.com>

Koczian <Sibylle.Koczian at Bibliothek.Uni-Augsburg.de> writes:

> This doesn't raise an exception but returns the current date. I know
> the comment in the notes for the Parser submodule: "The Parser
> submodule ... will try very hard to come up with a reasonable output
> given a valid input." But this is no valid input, so I'd prefer an
> exception or at least not a valid DateTime object.

Double check that you're using a recent version of the egenix base
package (probably 2.0.3 or later).  The parser module functions such
as DateFromString were augmented to accept an optional list of parsers
to try, which allows you to override the default.  The default does
include an "unknown" parser which will default to the current date as
in prior versions, but if you exclude that you'll get a ValueError
exception if none of the other parsers match.

For example:

>>> import mx.DateTime
>>> print mx.DateTime.Parser._date_formats
('euro', 'us', 'altus', 'iso', 'altiso', 'lit', 'altlit', 'eurlit', 'unknown')
>>> print mx.DateTime.Parser.DateFromString('crap')
2003-07-10 00:00:00.00
>>> myformats=mx.DateTime.Parser._date_formats[:-1]
>>> print myformats
('euro', 'us', 'altus', 'iso', 'altiso', 'lit', 'altlit', 'eurlit')
>>> print mx.DateTime.Parser.DateFromString('crap',formats=myformats)
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
  <...snip...>
ValueError: unknown date format: "crap"


-- David



From postmaster at NCSNAHUB1.JNJ.com  Tue Jul  1 04:52:07 2003
From: postmaster at NCSNAHUB1.JNJ.com (System Administrator)
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 04:52:07 -0400 
Subject: Undeliverable: Re: Movie
Message-ID: <599C6453A1B8D41189320008C7E620572F0B7DFC@ncsusraexims1.rar.ncsus.jnj.com>

Your message

  To:      pdale at lifescan.com
  Subject: Re: Movie
  Sent:    Tue, 1 Jul 2003 04:57:02 -0400

did not reach the following recipient(s):

pdale at lifescan.com on Tue, 1 Jul 2003 04:51:49 -0400
    The recipient name is not recognized
	The MTS-ID of the original message is:
c=us;a=attmail;p=wwjjprmd;l=NCSUSRAEXIMS10307010851MVD0HFY8
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From sismex01 at hebmex.com  Thu Jul 10 13:07:20 2003
From: sismex01 at hebmex.com (sismex01 at hebmex.com)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 12:07:20 -0500
Subject: for in sequence problem... possible new operator to add to py
	thon
Message-ID: <F7DB8D13DB61D511B6FF00B0D0F06233055E7946@mail.hebmex.com>

> From: Peter Hansen [mailto:peter at engcorp.com] 
> Sent: Jueves, 10 de Julio de 2003 11:36 a.m.
> 
> Adam Gent wrote:
> > [..snippage..]
> 
> [..more.snippage..]
>
> When you iterate over a dict in recent versions of Python, you 
> are by definition iterating over the keys in the dict.  If you
> want the values, you use .values(), and if you want both keys
> and values, you use .items().  See the docs for more.
> 
> -Peter
>

Actually, .keys(), .values() and .items() return their respective
lists, in arbitrary order.

If you wish to use an iterator, use .iterkeys() , .itervalues()
or .iteritems() ; very helpful in the case of big dictionaries,
since you don't need to create and then destroy big lists.

Adam: If you wish to iterate through the items by default,
have you tried something like this?

class NewDict(dict):
    def __iter__(self):
        return super(NewDict,self).itervalues()

That should, by default (like "for x in nd:") iterate through
the values of a dictionary, instead of it's keys.

I haven't tested it though, so caveat emptor.

-gustavo
Advertencia:La informacion contenida en este mensaje es confidencial y
restringida, por lo tanto esta destinada unicamente para el uso de la
persona arriba indicada, se le notifica que esta prohibida la difusion de
este mensaje. Si ha recibido este mensaje por error, o si hay problemas en
la transmision, favor de comunicarse con el remitente. Gracias.




From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Jul 10 12:35:50 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 12:35:50 -0400
Subject: for in sequence problem... possible new operator to add to python
References: <3a8fc6c5.0307100816.634c83a3@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3F0D95E6.3BC763D3@engcorp.com>

Adam Gent wrote:
> 
> I was fooling around subclassing a dictionary object and noticed that
> when
> I do the standard "for in <object-is-a-sequence>:" that I have no
> control on how python gets that sequence.
> 
> For example:
> 
> class Blah(dict):
>    pass
> 
> bl = Blah()
> 
> for b in bl:
>     #b will be a key and not a value
>     #no matter how I subclass Blah
> 
> However I want b to be the values with out doing:
> for b in bl.values()

Why do you want that?  That is not how Python works.  This is
sort of like saying "when I'm in my car and I push on the gas pedal,
the car moves.  However I want to make it move without pushing
on the gas pedal."

When you iterate over a dict in recent versions of Python, you 
are by definition iterating over the keys in the dict.  If you
want the values, you use .values(), and if you want both keys
and values, you use .items().  See the docs for more.

-Peter



From t.leeuwenburg at nothing.bom.gov.au  Fri Jul 18 00:32:10 2003
From: t.leeuwenburg at nothing.bom.gov.au (Tennessee James Leeuwenburg)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 14:32:10 +1000
Subject: null pointer exceptions
Message-ID: <pan.2003.07.18.04.32.08.409676@nothing.bom.gov.au>

It seems to be the case that there are some null pointer exceptions which
Java can handle, but Jython can't. Which doesn't make sense to me, as with
Jython, it is Java which is doing the work.

Are there any good guides to this?

I have a class which includes adding an ImageIcon. If the required graphic
resource isn't present, there is a NullPointerException. Java doesn't care
- the straight Java program handles it internally and gets on with life.
But when I include it from Python, it explodes.

It may be because the resource is specified using a relative pathname.
When Jython executes, it may be not using the current directory as its'
base for relative paths, but could be using JYTHON_HOME, which could lead
to this behaviour.

Can anyone tell me what Jython uses for its' relative path base?
Can anyone describe how Jython handles exceptions that is different from
Java?

Thanks,
-Tennessee



From vze4rx4y at verizon.net  Sat Jul 26 20:01:57 2003
From: vze4rx4y at verizon.net (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 00:01:57 GMT
Subject: How do I get info on an exception ?
References: <fc07672ed11f5dcad539bcf9bf0d051f@news.1usenet.com> <U2NRa.7475$7O.275@nwrdny01.gnilink.net> <vhh3kss6ailjf9@corp.supernews.com> <qbySa.19290$7O.15283@nwrdny01.gnilink.net> <vhqqekoa2osu77@corp.supernews.com> <oYeTa.26187$7O.15995@nwrdny01.gnilink.net> <o4suhvgb2op3ua3lro6esn44gslmr6vuc1@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <VDEUa.4373$AO6.3093@nwrdny02.gnilink.net>

[Raymond]
> >The part that could be improved is where it talks about returning a
> >message or a tuple, as if either one but not both could occur at any
> >time.  It would be more accurate to say, that in all cases an exception
> >instance is returned; the instance has a __str__ method so it can be
> >printed as if it were a string; the instance has an attribute "args" which
> >is the tuple (errno, errmsg); and the instance has a __getitem__ method
> >so the args tuple can be directly unpacked as if the instance had been
> >the tuple itself.

[Frank]
> After checking that the input is a string, I try calling
> gethostbyname/addr depending on whether the first char is numeric and
> catch:
> "except socket.error, err:"
> Will this catch all possible errors?  I've tried feeding various
> errors into my def and caught them all so far.  Input might come from
> users at the keyboard, and crashing the program is not an option, no
> matter what is typed in.

Yes, that will catch all errors.  You have bound the instance to "err".

As I said earlier, the part of the docs that some folks may
find confusing is that part about returning a string or a tuple.
In fact, it always returns an instance that can be printed like
a string *and* unpacked like a tuple.

I'll modify the docs to make this more clear.

If you're in an experimental frame of mind, it is straight-forward to
learn exactly what is going on by adding a few print statements:

  except socket.error, inst:
       print 'Caught a', type(inst)     # show that an exception instance was
recd
       print 'The inst can be printed like a string:', inst
       errno, errmsg = inst              # show the exception can be unpacked
       print 'It contains a tuple with', errno, 'and', errmsg
       print 'Its methods are', dir(inst)
       print 'The data is kept in inst.args', inst.args
       print 'It prints because of the __str__ method:', inst.__str__()
       print 'That is my story and I am sticking with it!'


Raymond Hettinger




Raymond Hettinger





From maney at pobox.com  Wed Jul  2 01:51:50 2003
From: maney at pobox.com (Martin Maney)
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 05:51:50 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: new to python - looking for a good book
References: <bdpm5v$g3d$1@info.service.rug.nl> <bdpo99$k4e@newton.cc.rl.ac.uk> <9d5509fa.0306301704.3234d552@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bdtrtm$vsg$1@wheel2.two14.net>

Peter Ballard <pballard at ozemail.com.au> wrote:
> Why should I buy any of these books when I've got the (free) official
> Python documentation downloaded, and always just a click or two away?

Because some of them - the Cookbook comes forcefully to mind for me -
cover material that the regular docs don't touch on; the difference
between what the language allows and how best to use those facilities. 
Others, even the so-called "Bible" which I found wanting in its
thoroughness of coverage, can illuminate the features and libraries
with well-crafted small examples that are rarely present in the more
reference-like documentation.  And even books that are not at first
glance much more than a printed version of the online docs (although
_Essential Reference_ always seemed more useful to me, especially back
when I was working with its first edition and Python 1.5) have some
portability and usability advantages if one is not attached to his
computer at the waist.  :-)

At least those are the sorts of reasons that come to my mind.

-- 
We reject kings, presidents, and voting.
We believe in rough consensus
and running code. -- David Clarke



From news at 92tr.freeserve.co.uk  Tue Jul 29 04:27:27 2003
From: news at 92tr.freeserve.co.uk (ddoc)
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 08:27:27 +0000
Subject: small CDs?
References: <VXcVa.28$HY3.42617@news.uswest.net>
Message-ID: <bg5a9l$6m8$1@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk>

Kevin Altis wrote:

> it would be handy to be able to
> run Python on machines that don't already have Python installed. 
... 
> CD-ROM is not very effective because the media is read-only and too big to
> carry in your pocket. 

Read-only, yes, but you can get small CD-Rs that hold a reasonable amount 
of information in either a proper round shape, or one with corners that 
makes it conference badge/credit card sized.

Probably easiest to set up the system you burn on the pocketable CD so that 
it uses the USB device you carry in the other pocket to store anything that 
needs to change or be retained after a session.

-- 
A



From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Fri Jul 25 18:41:15 2003
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 25 Jul 2003 18:41:15 -0400
Subject: Static typing
References: <3f218ef1$0$27926$626a54ce@news.free.fr> <3f219c8d$1@nntp0.pdx.net> <mailman.1059169958.20638.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bfsbmb$l04$1@panix3.panix.com>

In article <mailman.1059169958.20638.python-list at python.org>,
Shane Hathaway  <shane at zope.com> wrote:
>
>Well, here's a pattern I've been trying out for this purpose: use assert 
>statements at the top of the function.
>
>def foo(bar, baz):
>     assert isinstance(bar, int)
>     assert isinstance(baz, str)
>
>I'm quite happy with the pattern, although there are a couple of 
>negative points that I can think of:
>
>- It's a bit verbose, although that verbosity enables you to perform 
>bounds checking and operate with other type systems like Zope's interfaces.
>
>- You can't specify the type of the return values this way.

You skipped the crucial negative: it breaks Python's name-based
polymorphism.  If someone creates a class that works just like a string
but doesn't derive from the str class, your program breaks for no good
reason.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

This is Python.  We don't care much about theory, except where it intersects 
with useful practice.  --Aahz



From kmj9907 at cs.rit.edu  Thu Jul 31 18:20:59 2003
From: kmj9907 at cs.rit.edu (Keith Jones)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 22:20:59 GMT
Subject: Misuse of <tab>
References: <3f27f0e3$1@news.broadpark.no> <vifvcvqdd4mf4@news.supernews.com> <RbTVa.8214$gU6.967766@twister.nyc.rr.com> <pan.2003.07.30.20.07.18.351027@cs.rit.edu> <38ec68a6.0307301841.dfb951a@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2003.07.31.22.26.10.881778@cs.rit.edu>

> If you use vim remember to put 'set expandtab' (or if you wanna be fancy
> 'au BufRead,BufNewFile *.py set expandtab' ) into your .vimrc (or .exrc)
> file.  This way you can use '[Ctrl]-[T]' and '[Ctrl]-[D]' to in- and
> un-dent in insert mode, as well as '>>' and '<<' in command mode,
> without fear of hard tabs being inserted.  (Though the way vi(m) mixes
> tabs and spaces is consistent enough that you wouldn't usually get into
> any trouble with it.)


Oh, yeah, forgot to mention expandtab; I did not know about >>, <<,
Ctrl+T, and Ctrl+D, however; so thanks for those. I had  mapped <tab> and
<s-tab> to : s/^/    /<cr> and : s/^     /<cr> for command mode, which I
guess I won't have to use anymore. I noticed in visual mode, you can just
use '>' or '<' to tab or untab multiple lines, though sadly the visual
mode disappears. This leads to the question: what python specific entries
people have in their .vimrc's?

I've got the following:

" smart indenting is necessary of course 
autocmd FileType python set autoindent smartindent et sts=4
    \ cinwords=class,def,elif,else,except,finally,for,if,try,while

" I hate that vim puts # at the beggining of the line if it's the 
" first
character, so this prevents that 
autocmd FileType python inoremap # X#

" as described above, insert or remove tabs (works with visual, to)
autocmd FileType python map <tab> : s/^/    /<cr> 
autocmd FileType python map <S-tab> : s/^    //<cr>

" These move to the top of the next or previous class or function 
autocmd FileType python map [[ ?^\s*class\s<cr> 
autocmd FileType python map ]]/^\s*class\s<cr> 
autocmd FileType python map [] ?^\s*def\s<cr> 
autocmd FileType python map ][ /^\s*def\s<cr>

" find some of my stupid mistakes
autocmd FileType python map <F5> :w<CR>:!pychecker %<CR>

" comment or uncomment multiple lines in visual mode 
autocmd FileType python vmap # : s/^/#/<cr> 
autocmd FileType python vmap @ : s/^#*//<cr>

I should just put all those commands in a vim file and source it.



From member32239 at dbforums.com  Tue Jul  1 04:08:36 2003
From: member32239 at dbforums.com (Mike Medland)
Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 08:08:36 +0000
Subject: Mod_python xml parsing problem
Message-ID: <3061157.1057046916@dbforums.com>

Hi, I am currently using Python 2.2.3, apache 1.3.27 and mod_python
2.7.8. Under Solaris 8 on a sun.
The configuration appears to be working fine but, the problem that i am
having is in parsing xml files, when i do for example:

xmlfile = minidom.parse(file)
root = xmlfile.childNodes

It creates a dom instance but it contains nothing at all, and
root returns
a 'nonetype'. I believe that it may be an encoding problem but i dont
know
how to fix it.
When i tried the same code using cgi instead of mod_python it worked
fine. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

--
Posted via http://dbforums.com



From furliz at libero.it  Thu Jul 31 10:05:01 2003
From: furliz at libero.it (furliz)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 16:05:01 +0200
Subject: tkinter menu bars, assigning children to parents, and grid/pack
 managers
In-Reply-To: <8bf5dfd1.0307300941.f068138@posting.google.com>
References: <8bf5dfd1.0307300941.f068138@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bgb7on$bm0$1@stargate1.inet.it>

Josh wrote:
> Caution, newbie approaching...

well... newbie vs newbie :))
> 
> I'm trying to come up with a very simple Tkinter test application that
> consists of a window with a drop-down menu bar at the top and a grid
> of colored rectangles filling the remainder of the window.

It seems you'd like to obtain a standard window with a standard menubar 
attached at the top.... is it right?

Perhaps I'm not the best person for your problem resolution, but I hope 
I'll could give you a contribute :)

> class MultiColorMenu(Tkinter.Frame):
>     "This class is a bar of drop-down menus for manipulating a grid of
> colored rectangles."
>     def __init__(self, master=None):
>         Tkinter.Frame.__init__(self, master)
>         self.tk_menuBar(self.help_menu())
> 
>     def help_menu(self):
>         help_btn = Tkinter.Menubutton(self, text='Help', underline=0)
>         help_btn.pack(side=Tkinter.LEFT, padx="2m")
>         help_btn.menu = Tkinter.Menu(help_btn)
>         help_btn.menu.add_command(label="How To", underline=0,
> command=self.helpFoo)
>         help_btn.menu.add_command(label="About", underline=0,
> command=self.helpFoo)
>         help_btn['menu'] = help_btn.menu
>         return help_btn
> 
>     def helpFoo(self):
>         print 'Heelllppppp!!!'
>         
For my knowledge (..very small on python, yet) you should use the 
Tkinter.Menu widget rather than creating an extension of the 
Tkinter.Frame like you did in your MultiColorMenu class.

Just copy&paste this simple example, so you see if it is what you're 
looking for.

#begin code
from Tkinter import *

root = Tk()
root.title("Menu demo")
root.geometry("300x300")

# -- barra menu
masterMenu = Menu(root)

# -- menu tipo di ricerca
menutiporicerca = Menu(masterMenu,tearoff=0)
menutiporicerca.add_command(label="Ricerca directory")
menutiporicerca.add_command(label="Ricerca file")
menutiporicerca.add_command(label="Ricerca dentro file")

# -- menu ricerche
menuricerca = Menu(masterMenu,tearoff=0)
menuricerca.add_cascade(label="Nuova ricerca...",menu=menutiporicerca)
menuricerca.add_command(label="Salva ricerca")
menuricerca.add_separator()
menuricerca.add_command(label="Esci")
masterMenu.add_cascade(label="Ricerca",menu=menuricerca)

# -- menu info
menuinfo = Menu(masterMenu,tearoff=0)
menuinfo.add_command(label="Info")
menuinfo.add_separator()
menuinfo.add_command(label="About..")
masterMenu.add_cascade(label="?",menu=menuinfo)

#setta barra menu
root.config(menu=masterMenu)
root.mainloop()

#end code

hope this help you. Bye.




From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Jul  7 08:43:08 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 08:43:08 -0400
Subject: anything new on the ternary operator?
References: <mailman.1057533670.9800.python-list@python.org>
		 <%G4Oa.22187$Ey6.10119@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net> <mailman.1057555031.29406.python-list@python.org> <3F09235B.6F7DE56@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <3F096ADC.1E4D6232@engcorp.com>

Erik Max Francis wrote:
> 
> Mind you, such discussion will not be very constructive, but just
> saying, "Welp, it's not going to be added, nobody talk about it ever
> again" is not going to be very effective when new people come in all the
> time and, one must admit, at least some segment of the user community
> would have liked the feature.

At least by then the FAQ will be updated to point to the updated PEP,
which will, as originally intended, clearly explain the background,
the discussion, the vote, and the "final" decision.

-Peter



From sjmachin at lexicon.net  Thu Jul 17 16:25:31 2003
From: sjmachin at lexicon.net (John Machin)
Date: 17 Jul 2003 13:25:31 -0700
Subject: python.dll
References: <3f169c26$1@newspilot.put.poznan.pl> <mailman.1058448423.25466.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c76ff6fc.0307171225.65a009e0@posting.google.com>

Gerhard H?ring <gh at ghaering.de> wrote in message news:<mailman.1058448423.25466.python-list at python.org>...
> Jacek Potrymaj o wrote:
> > I installed this version of python software, but when I
> > try to install software which use Python I have an error - incorrect ve
>  rsion
> > of python.dll is installed. [...]
> 
> Is that the exact error message you get? If not, please tell us the 
> exact error message.
> 
> You wonder why I don't believe that this is the exact error message? 
> There is no such thing as a python.dll on Windows. The Python DLLs 
> always carry the major and minor version numbers, like python21.dll or 
> python22.dll.

Gerhard is correct, as far back as Python 1.5 (determined by searching
for python*.dll on my machine). Jacek, ignore any suggestions to the
contrary. Not sure what's going on there; either (a) inappropriate use
of the time machine or (b) bot rot or (c) the bot has been hacked ...



From tim.one at comcast.net  Tue Jul 15 21:27:01 2003
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 21:27:01 -0400
Subject: FCNTL module deprecation warning
In-Reply-To: <1ED4ECF91CDED24C8D012BCF2B034F1318CF26@its-xchg4.massey.ac.nz>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCKEKDEOAB.tim.one@comcast.net>

[Tony Meyer]
> Strange.  I get the warning on 2.2.3 and 2.3b2, except in 2.3b2 IDLE,
> which successfully imports fcntl (odd).  (long cut'n'pastes below).

Not in my 2.3b2 IDLE (installed from the released binary installer):

Python 2.3b2 (#43, Jun 29 2003, 16:43:04) [MSC v.1200 32 bit (Intel)] on
win32
Type "copyright", "credits" or "license()" for more information.
IDLE 1.0b2
>>> import fcntl

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<pyshell#0>", line 1, in -toplevel-
    import fcntl
ImportError: No module named fcntl
>>>


> Do you have the PYTHONCASEOK envar set?

Absolutely not.  That envar is for desperate backward compatibility problems
on junk systems, where the user doesn't care about portable import
semantics.


> (This doesn't seem to make any difference to me, but from the
> explanation I didn't think it would).

To the contrary, setting PYTHONCASEOK radically changes behavior here!
Indeed, it's the only explanation I can think of for this:


> Python 2.3b2 (#43, Jun 29 2003, 16:43:04) [MSC v.1200 32 bit (Intel)]
> on win32
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import fcntl
c:\progra~1\python23\lib\fcntl.py:7: DeprecationWarning: the FCNTL module is
dep recated; please use fcntl DeprecationWarning)


There isn't (or at least shouldn't be) any file named fcntl.py anywhere in
your Python installation.  FCNTL.py, yes, but not fcntl.py (or .dll, or
.pyd, etc).  The deprecation warning you showed there comes from FCNTL.py
(open it up and look at line 7):

warnings.warn("the FCNTL module is deprecated; please use fcntl",
              DeprecationWarning)

Therefore, when you did "import fcntl", it actually opened FCNTL.py.  That's
what happens if you set PYTHONCASEOK -- case distinctions are ignored on
Windows then, violating Python's intended behavior.

The reason the later

from fcntl import *

in FCNTL.py doesn't cause infinite recursion then is subtle, but intended
behavior.  Note that this module doesn't blow up with infinite recursion
either if you import it:

C:\Code\python\PCbuild>type fooey.py
print "a bunch of junk"
import fooey

C:\Code\python\PCbuild>

The short course is that Python arranges for recursive imports "to work", so
that circular imports are possible (for the careful).

Here:

C:\Python23>set PYTHONCASEOK=1

C:\Python23>python
Python 2.3b2 (#43, Jun 29 2003, 16:43:04) [MSC v.1200 32 bit (Intel)] on
 win32
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import fcntl
C:\PYTHON23\lib\fcntl.py:7: DeprecationWarning: the FCNTL module is
deprecated; please use fcntl
  DeprecationWarning)
>>> print fcntl.__file__
C:\PYTHON23\lib\fcntl.pyc
>>>

fcntl.__file__ gives the name of the file Python believes the .pyc file was
compiled from.  Because PYTHONCASEOK is set, the case given in the import
statement was believed (bit ignored for purposes of searching for it).
There certainly isn't any file named fcntl.py here, though:

C:\Python23>dir/b lib\fc*
FCNTL.py
FCNTL.pyc

C:\Python23>


Python works as designed if that envar is left unset:

C:\Python23>set PYTHONCASEOK=

C:\Python23>python
Python 2.3b2 (#43, Jun 29 2003, 16:43:04) [MSC v.1200 32 bit (Intel)] on
win32
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import fcntl
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
ImportError: No module named fcntl
>>>





From claird at lairds.com  Wed Jul 30 07:30:32 2003
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 11:30:32 -0000
Subject: Papers on Python
References: <8b36138c.0307281644.f6569ea@posting.google.com> <bg4mp7$jke$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <vifb2om0ih9v1d@corp.supernews.com>

In article <bg4mp7$jke$1 at slb6.atl.mindspring.net>,
Andrew Dalke <adalke at mindspring.com> wrote:
>Rick:
>> But then I got thinking. What are the 5 (or 6 or 7 or 10) most seminal
>> papers in the history of Python in the opinion of members of this
>> newgroups?
>
> - Lutz Prechelt's paper comparing C, C++, Perl, Java, Tcl, Python, and
>    a couple more languages, all on the same non-trivial task
>
> - Greg Stein's paper at the San Jose conference (1998), on how his
>     company used Python to make a commercial web app then sold it
>     to Microsoft - helped convince me people could make money doing Python
>
>  - not really a paper, but reading through the tutorial and the library
>docs
>     back in 1997 were what convinced me that Python was the language for
>me.
>     It still took 2 years before I could use it -- too much preexisting Tcl
>and Perl
>     code.
			.
			.
			.
Somewhere between academic papers and Usenet discussions,
examples of each of which have already been recommended to
you, are magazine articles.  Last millenium, I wrote several
that *still* appear to attract readers, to my surprise.  If
my e-mail is an apt indication,
  "Python as a First Language" 
  www.oreillynet.com/pub/a/network/2000/06/02/magazine/python_first_language.html 

  "Getting Started With Python"
  web.archive.org/web/20010201170400/http://www.sunworld.com/sunworldonline/swol-02-1998/swol-02-python.html 

  "Batteries Included"
  web.archive.org/web/20001013152452/http://sunworld.com/swol-12-1998/swol-12-regex.html

are among those influential out of proportion to their artistic
merit.
-- 

Cameron Laird <Cameron at Lairds.com>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
Personal:  http://phaseit.net/claird/home.html



From intentionally at blank.co.uk  Mon Jul 14 23:34:01 2003
From: intentionally at blank.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 04:34:01 +0100
Subject: anything like C++ references?
References: <000301c348c7$3c501980$21795418@dell1700> <jf22hvotj4n0q5tpkg627e3jv61norf93n@4ax.com> <3F11106A.65FDA8F2@alcyone.com> <iqm2hvs77lhe1m71v9b579070khbf0uv0a@4ax.com> <berqqd$ad5$1@panix3.panix.com> <brs2hv8edfv0d1fch9mha8otuulajnkh0g@4ax.com> <8vd6hv0sdvoitccmnj4pdj66ss2vg4ii3n@4ax.com> <l1h6hv4c9f80uhv2j3gcpro1htq5n3q62i@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <c7t6hvgsa4a17vdsr7fh9qenn4hsj4a56s@4ax.com>

On Mon, 14 Jul 2003 17:06:17 -0700, Tom Plunket <tomas at fancy.org>
wrote:

>>>> a = 5
>>>> b = ref_to(5)
>>>> a = 3
>>>> print b
>3
>
>This would require a new built-in probably, and any time you
>(accidentally?) did 'b = c', then you'd lose that reference,
>but...  hmm, I wonder if it'd be handy.
>
>Probably not enough to justify the expense.  :)

True - but the problem doesn't arise if you need to explicitly
dereference pointers to access the objects they point to.

>>> a = 5
>>> b = &a
>>> a = 3
>>> *b
3
>>> *b = 7  #  note - not 'b = c'
>>> a
7

Providing the pointers aren't low level store addresses or fuzzy
concepts vaguely related to arrays as in C, the principle would work
just fine.




From alanmk at hotmail.com  Sun Jul  6 08:54:40 2003
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Sun, 06 Jul 2003 13:54:40 +0100
Subject: Frustration with spurious posts.
References: <mailman.1057420812.18141.python-list@python.org> <3F06FD11.967D8D8A@hotmail.com> <Xns93B02F2F82A37JanC@213.119.4.244>
Message-ID: <3F081C10.8CF6B57@hotmail.com>

Alan Kennedy:

>> Bringing an end to the problem would probably involve a fairly
>> substantial admin effort on the part of the python.org admins.

JanC wrote:

> No, it's the admins that run an antivirus on their mail server or the
> users that use broken anti-virus/anti-spam tools that should fix their
> system.

Ah but, we all know that is never going to happen. There are just too
many admins out there who either don't know how or are unwilling to
deal with this problem.

There are two ways to sort the problem out

1. Get *all* of the admins to configure their setups to stop bouncing
virus emails.

2. Sort it out at the python-list/Usenet gateway.

Since #1 is unlikely to ever happen in practice, #2 is the only viable
option available. Hence my statement.

> It's plain stupid and irresponsible to bounce or send a mail back to a
> *forged* and often randomly shuffled "From:" address, doubling or
> tripling the mail traffic generated by the virus itself.  :-(

Yes, it can be indeed thoroughly silly, especially if the from address
is forged.

But if an email is sent from an individual to an individual, then such
"you sent me a virus!" emails can be very useful information. It's
only when an email address is associated with lots of subscribers that
it becomes a problem. Or, as you pointed out, when the from address is
forged.

Is there some sort of mail header that these virus checking gateways
could examine, to see if the email is from a list, rather than an
individual, before it sends these emails? Maybe we need to invent one,
e.g.

X-Dont-Send-Me-Virus-Reports: YES

> "Be strict when sending and tolerant when receiving."
> RFC 1958 - Architectural Principles of the Internet - section 3.9

Do this mean we should quietly tolerate the "you sent me a virus!"
emails?

;-)

-- 
alan kennedy
-----------------------------------------------------
check http headers here: http://xhaus.com/headers
email alan:              http://xhaus.com/mailto/alan



From skip at pobox.com  Sat Jul 19 12:04:55 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 11:04:55 -0500
Subject: List of declared variables in interactive Python session?
In-Reply-To: <pNdSa.397$Y5.120@nntpserver.swip.net>
References: <pNdSa.397$Y5.120@nntpserver.swip.net>
Message-ID: <16153.27687.462239.251885@montanaro.dyndns.org>


    Fredrik> Is there a way to list all the declared variables in an
    Fredrik> interactive Python session?

    >>> i = 1
    >>> a = "abc"
    >>> b = a
    >>> print globals().keys()
    ['dirall', 'completion', 'b', '__builtins__', '__file__', 'titan', 'xmlrpclib', 'configpath', 'dirpat', 'buildinfo', 'sys', 'i', 'xmlrequest', 'manatee', 'a', 'x', '__name__', 'dxp', 'os', '__doc__', 'dir']
    >>> print globals()
    {'dirall': <function dir at 0x476930>, 'completion': <module 'completion' from '/Users/skip/misc/python/completion.pyc'>, 'b': 'abc', '__builtins__': <module '__builtin__' (built-in)>, '__file__': '/Users/skip/.python.py', 'titan': <ServerProxy for localhost:5007/RPC2>, 'xmlrpclib': <module 'xmlrpclib' from '/Users/skip/local/lib/python2.3/xmlrpclib.pyc'>, 'configpath': <module 'configpath' from '/Users/skip/misc/python/configpath.pyc'>, 'dirpat': <function dirpat at 0x4769b0>, 'buildinfo': <module 'buildinfo' from '/Users/skip/misc/python/buildinfo.pyc'>, 'sys': <module 'sys' (built-in)>, 'i': 1, 'xmlrequest': <module 'xmlrequest' from '/Users/skip/local/lib/automatrix/python/xmlrequest.pyc'>, 'manatee': <ServerProxy for manatee.mojam.com:5007/RPC2>, 'a': 'abc', 'x': Type help() for interactive help, or help(object) for help about object., '__name__': '__main__', 'dxp': <ServerProxy for manatee.mojam.com:7304/RPC2>, 'os': <module 'os' from '/Users/skip/local/lib/python2.3/os.pyc'>, '__doc__': None, 'dir': <function dir at 0x476930>}

Note that it picks up anything defined in your PYTHONSTARTUP file as well.

Skip

From cneal92 at lycos.com  Sun Jul  6 19:40:28 2003
From: cneal92 at lycos.com (O'Neal Computer Programmer)
Date: 6 Jul 2003 16:40:28 -0700
Subject: python scripting game The Temple Of Elemental Evil update
Message-ID: <82ff1d8b.0307061540.5da32ae@posting.google.com>

I was reading here: http://groups.google.com/groups?q=elemental+group:comp.lang.python.*&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&group=comp.lang.python.*&selm=mailman.1044572235.32593.python-list%40python.org&rnum=3
that a game The Temple Of Elemental Evil is going to be using python
as its scripting language. It says that on the FAQ which you can read
about here http://mywebpages.comcast.net/ibnobody/troika.html

Q. What language are you writing the gamecode in?
A. (S.M. 2/6) The renderer is written in C, the animation player is in
C++, the game logic and user interface is also written in C, and most
of the scripting is done in Python (thanks Guido).

Anyway, this game also has a forum at
http://ina-community.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=286 and
also one that you have to pay for at
http://vnboards.ign.com/board.asp?brd=22335 with more info about the
game.



From ebolonev at rol.ru  Fri Jul  4 05:48:35 2003
From: ebolonev at rol.ru (Egor Bolonev)
Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 20:48:35 +1100
Subject: Question about "exec in globals, locals"
References: <57de9986.0307040041.553ff329@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <be3ijp$nj3$2@news.rol.ru>

Hello, Giles!
You wrote  on 4 Jul 2003 01:41:36 -0700:

[Snipped] 

GB> # Case - 2
GB> myglobals = {'__builtins__' : None, '__name__': None}
GB> mylocals = {}

GB> exec source in myglobals, mylocals
exec source in mylocals
exec source in myglobals
And it work with no errors. But I'm not sure you wish this.

GB> print "Global names are:", myglobals.keys()
GB> print "Local names are:", mylocals.keys()

With best regards, Egor Bolonev.  E-mail: ebolonev at rol.ru [ru eo en]




From adalke at mindspring.com  Wed Jul 30 15:52:11 2003
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 13:52:11 -0600
Subject: while (assignment):
References: <mailman.1059541545.26855.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bg97dh$mre$1@slb2.atl.mindspring.net>

Me:
> Again, don't this in real code.  Evil.  But cute.

Tim Delaney:
> I would say it's actually rude, rather than evil.

Ehh, you're right.  So it's no longer part of the axis of evil?

                    Andrew
                    dalke at dalkescientific.com





From ianb at colorstudy.com  Wed Jul 16 20:11:13 2003
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: 16 Jul 2003 19:11:13 -0500
Subject: list() coercion
Message-ID: <1058400673.19233.1088.camel@lothlorien>

I have an iterable object.  It supports many list-like methods,
specifically __len__.  These methods are rather expensive (they result
in database calls, COUNT(*) to be specific), but cheaper than iterating
over the object.  Sometimes it is useful to create a list from the
iterator, using list().  However, list() seems to call the object's
__len__, I imagine to pre-allocate space.  This is a problem, as
pre-allocation saves much less than is spent doing __len__.

Is there a way I can keep this from happening?  Maybe something list()
tries first that I can make fail.  (I notice list() catches any
exceptions in __len__ and then will just skip that step)

  Ian






From paulpaterson at users.sourceforge.net  Fri Jul 25 13:28:22 2003
From: paulpaterson at users.sourceforge.net (Paul Paterson)
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 17:28:22 GMT
Subject: How safe is modifying locals()?
In-Reply-To: <MvCdnTkcoJNP_7yiXTWJjw@comcast.com>
References: <BDcUa.100193$XV.6037947@twister.austin.rr.com> <MvCdnTkcoJNP_7yiXTWJjw@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <WMdUa.100343$XV.6044659@twister.austin.rr.com>

Terry Reedy wrote:
> "Paul Paterson" <paulpaterson at users.sourceforge.net> wrote in message
>>
>>The Python documentation gives a warning that modifying the contents
> 
> of
> 
>>locals() may not affect local values. Despite the warning, the code
>>seems to work as desired, at least on Python 2.2.
> 
> 
> At module scope, locals() == globals().  Within a function, locals()
> currently is a *copy* of the function's local namespace.  So above
> only works because you made the call from the global (module) context
> and would not if you tested by making call from within a function.
> 

Thanks Terry! I adjusted my tests and now see this behaviour exactly. 
The function itself works but the changes do not propogate out to the 
calling scope. So this approach of using locals() appears to be dead.

Are there any other approaches?

Paul





From bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au  Sat Jul 12 02:44:00 2003
From: bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au (Ben Finney)
Date: 12 Jul 2003 16:34:00 +0950
Subject: Python Mystery Theatre -- Episode 1:  Exceptions
References: <UiOPa.3259$Y92.1224@nwrdny01.gnilink.net>
Message-ID: <slrnbgvcmv.q1.bignose-hates-spam@rose.localdomain.fake>

On Sat, 12 Jul 2003 06:56:52 GMT, Raymond Hettinger wrote:
> For your amusement and edification, I'm working on a series of Python
> puzzles designed to highlight areas of the language known only to
> those who have read the docs more than once.

Excellent stuff!  Any plans to put these online, perhaps with collation
of the responses?  How many episodes are currently planned?

I imagine that some of the "blindingly obvious" explanations would be
welcome in the docs :-)

-- 
 \      "I wish a robot would get elected president. That way, when he |
  `\    came to town, we could all take a shot at him and not feel too |
_o__)                                            bad."  -- Jack Handey |
http://bignose.squidly.org/ 9CFE12B0 791A4267 887F520C B7AC2E51 BD41714B



From manish.j at gmx.net  Fri Jul 25 09:35:01 2003
From: manish.j at gmx.net (Manish Jethani)
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 19:05:01 +0530
Subject: data conversion question (binary string to 'real string')
In-Reply-To: <3F212EB3.7020600@stacom-software.de>
References: <bfr9h7$i62j8$1@ID-155280.news.uni-berlin.de> <R2aUa.4$gZ.55@news.oracle.com> <3F212EB3.7020600@stacom-software.de>
Message-ID: <3waUa.5$gZ.161@news.oracle.com>

Alexander Eisenhuth wrote:

> This two lines converts 0.5 to a string in binary 
> representation
> 
>  >>>from struct import *

from binascii import hexlify

>  >>>bin_str =  pack('!f', 0.5)
> 
> now bin_str is '?\x00\x00\x00', wich is the representation 
> of 0.5 in the memory. I need now to convert this binary 
> string to "3F000000", where '3F' is the hex value of the '?' 
> in ascii - table.
> 
> Any ideas ??

foo = hexlify(bin_str)
print foo

-Manish

PS:  You posted the same message thrice, by mistake.

-- 
Manish Jethani (manish.j at gmx.net)
phone (work) +91-80-51073488




From andersjm at dancontrol.dk  Fri Jul 25 06:30:58 2003
From: andersjm at dancontrol.dk (Anders J. Munch)
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 12:30:58 +0200
Subject: Why instancemethod when I can add functions to classes outside class body?
References: <6f03c4a5.0307242027.85f195a@posting.google.com> <m3oezj6v6w.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <slrnbi1hsk.hkq.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>
Message-ID: <3f210717$0$76049$edfadb0f@dread11.news.tele.dk>

"Ben Finney" <bignose-hates-spam at and-benfinney-does-too.id.au> wrote:
> On 25 Jul 2003 07:18:15 +0200, Martin v. L?wis wrote:
> > rimbalaya at yahoo.com (Rim) writes:
> >> So what problem is the new.instancemethod() trying to solve?
> >
> > It has no side effects on the class it is an instancemethod of.
>
> So what side effects (i.e. what problem) is the new.instancemethod()
> trying to solve?

Assigning to the class changes the behaviour of all instances of that
class.  new.instancemethod can be used to add a method to an
individual instance.

>>> class A: pass
...
>>> a1 = A(); a2 = A()
>>> a1.f = new.instancemethod(lambda self: "hi", a1, A)
>>> a2.f()
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
AttributeError: A instance has no attribute 'f'
>>> a1.f()
'hi'


- Anders





From max at alcyone.com  Mon Jul 21 00:01:45 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 21:01:45 -0700
Subject: Unfortunate exception on dict item assignment (and why aren't slices 
 hashable?)
References: <mailman.1058752171.10243.python-list@python.org> <slrnbhmjh2.si4.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>
Message-ID: <3F1B65A9.839A79E8@alcyone.com>

Ben Finney wrote:

> You're not requesting to slice a dict; you're requesting to reference
> an
> element of a dict with : as the key.

No he's not, that would be

	{}[':']

Here's the proof; actually, the error has nothing to do with assignment,
it just has to do with slicing:

>>> {}[:]
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
TypeError: unhashable type

What this really does is build a slice object and try that:

>>> {}[slice(0)]
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
TypeError: unhashable type

So the complaint is that the index it's trying to lookup can't be
hashed.  And that's because slices aren't hashable:

>>> hash(slice(0))
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
TypeError: unhashable type

Though there's no doubt at all that's a confusing error.  But slicing is
a feature of a _sequence_ type, not a _mapping_ type.

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ It is much safer to obey than to rule.
\__/  Thomas a Kempis



From tug at wilson.co.uk  Wed Jul 16 12:23:33 2003
From: tug at wilson.co.uk (John Wilson)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 17:23:33 +0100
Subject: XML <=> Database 
References: <20030716152600.A1315@cs.unipune.ernet.in>
Message-ID: <0f2401c34bb6$9af47930$640a0b0a@handel>

vivek at cs.unipune.ernet.in wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
>   Is there any module available which does the same work as the XML
> Integrator
> in Java. Actually I am working in an educational institute, there
> somebody asked me to teach Java as a part of a Database course. As I
> am not very good in Java so I asked for the type of assignments they
> want to give to students. So here is what they told me:
> 
>   There will be a three tier architechture. One web application, Web
> Server,
> one Application Server and the Database backend. The Web server will
> get the
> data as a XML document. This will be passed to the application server
> that
> will parse the document and will insert/Update/Delete the data in the
> database
> Server. Similarly the data will be retrieved from the database and
> will be
> converted in a XML document by the application server and will be
> send to the
> user's browser through the web server.

Can you define the format of the XML document or is it fixed?

If you can define the format of the document then you could make it an
XML-RPC call. The data from the document would be marshalled automatically
by the XML-RPC implementation and you would have very little code to write
to perform ythe database access. Likewise the result of a database query
would be converted into XMl by the XML-RPC implementation.

Using XML-RPC would have the advantage that you could make Python and Java
implementations and compare the ease of development and performance between
the two approaches.

John Wilson
The Wilson Partnership
http://www.wilson.co.uk




From vze4rx4y at verizon.net  Tue Jul 29 18:59:14 2003
From: vze4rx4y at verizon.net (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 22:59:14 GMT
Subject: inverse of the zip function
References: <9sBVa.12998$o%2.6289@sccrnsc02> <wdCVa.118$7h6.110@nwrdny03.gnilink.net> <pan.2003.07.29.22.31.46.551258@webone.com.au>
Message-ID: <6%CVa.59$cI2.38@nwrdny01.gnilink.net>

> >> In other words, the the inverse of the built-in zip function?
> >
> > When used with the * operator, zip() is its own inverse:
> >
>
> This (obviously) doesn't work when z has length 0 or 2.
> I don't quite understand why zip is overloaded ...
>
> Oh, hang on, it does work for length 2! that's neat-o,
> and perhaps that's why zip was extended. Is it a functional programming
> convention, i wonder.
>
> Simon.


There is no special extension to zip().
It just happens to be one of those functions
like int.__neg__() that is closely related to
its own inverse.

* or apply() serve only to break a list into
individual arguments.  So, transpose() can
be defined like this:

def transpose(mat):
    return zip(*mat)

The transpose() is its own inverse for rectangular
matrices represented as lists of tuples.


Raymond Hettinger








From postmaster at 127.0.0.1  Thu Jul 10 21:20:48 2003
From: postmaster at 127.0.0.1 (David McNab)
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 13:20:48 +1200
Subject: Securing 'pickle'
Message-ID: <pan.2003.07.11.01.20.47.998070@127.0.0.1>

Hi,

I'm writing a web app framework which stores pickles in client cookies.

The obvious security risk is that some 5cr1p7 X1ddi35 will inevitably try
tampering with the cookie and malforming it in an attempt to get the
server-side python code to run arbitrary code, or something similarly
undesirable.

To protect against this, I've subclassed pickle.Unpickler, and added
overrides of the methods load_global, load_inst, load_obj and find_class.

My override methods simply raise exceptions unconditionally, which causes
any unpickle to fail if the pickle tries to unpack anything even
resembling code or an object.

I did this in preference to using the reputable 'bencode' module from
BitTorrent, because bencode doesn't support floats.

My question - have I done enough, or are there still ways where my hobbled
unpickler could be subverted by a malformed cookie?

Cheers
David




From ianb at colorstudy.com  Mon Jul 14 08:36:17 2003
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: 14 Jul 2003 07:36:17 -0500
Subject: path module
In-Reply-To: <HBF.20030714p6jh@bombur.uio.no>
References: <mailman.1057651032.22842.python-list@python.org>
	 <HBF.20030708keeu@bombur.uio.no>
	 <mailman.1057687272.12913.python-list@python.org>
	 <HBF.20030714p6jh@bombur.uio.no>
Message-ID: <1058186176.28457.701.camel@lothlorien>

On Mon, 2003-07-14 at 06:44, Hallvard B Furuseth wrote:
> Ian Bicking wrote:
> >On Tue, 2003-07-08 at 09:52, Hallvard B Furuseth wrote:
> >> If there is going to be a New Wonderful Path module, I suggest you give
> >> some thought to paths on systems that don't fit the simple Unix/Windows
> >> path model.  A path to a filename may e.g. looks different from a path
> >> to a directory.  (...)
> 
> > Interesting, but I think a bad idea.  (...)  If someone was using VMS
> > paths, I would assume they would subclass path for that OS, adding the
> > portions that applied.
> 
> It would be pointless to include _data structures_ for components that
> are not supported on any system Python is ported to, but for subclassing
> to make sense, some of the _interface_ would have to be in place.  Like
> the possibility of usin path.joindir() vs. path.joinfile() or something
> depending on whether the result should be a file or directory path.  And
> just path.join() for people who don't care.  Assuming there will be a
> join method, of course.

Since *no one* will ever use joindir or joinfile, why would it be
helpful?  Modern systems just don't make that distinction, and people
aren't going to make that distinction in their code.

> Also, you may need some special handling of 'device:' on Windows.

Yes, and the network portion as well (\\server\...).  However, it would
still be handled textually.  I.e., path(r'\\server') would happen to
create this network path, and path(r'\something_else') wouldn't.  The
Windows implementation of path would presumably have an attribute to get
at "server" (.unc or something), while you'd get an AttributeError on
Posix systems.

> > I think it's unreasonable to expect people programming on normal
> > platforms to pay attention to components like version, so even
> > including it in a structured manner is asking for trouble.
> 
> I dunno.  People have already mentioned coming systems where versions
> will be availbale.

But we have no idea what it will look like, or how it may be represented
in a filename (if at all!) -- so implementing something based on that
would be a little optimistic.  You're likely to create an interface that
won't make sense.  Better to leave it unspecified until there's an
actual system you want to support, at which point the interface will
seem much clearer.  Predictive design is a very bad idea.

  Ian






From tim at lesher.ws  Wed Jul 16 22:17:47 2003
From: tim at lesher.ws (Tim Lesher)
Date: 16 Jul 2003 19:17:47 -0700
Subject: Augmented Assignment question
References: <215bhv0bnkn13eivh0s64ic5ml8obpgfg7@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <b6562547.0307161817.6acb16a5@posting.google.com>

Doug Tolton <dtolton at yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<215bhv0bnkn13eivh0s64ic5ml8obpgfg7 at 4ax.com>...
> This solution strikes me as inelegant and ugly.  Is there a cleaner
> way of accomplishing this?

The problem is this:  performing addition of tuples is concatenation,
not addition of the elements.  If you try to decompose the augmented
addition into an addition and an assignment, you get a tuple that is
(in your case) the concatenation of the two 3-tuples, or a 6-tuple,
which can't unpack into a 3-tuple.

That said, for some definition of "cleaner", you could do:
def accumulate(i,j):
    return map(int.__add__, i, j)

// loop
    i,j,k = accumulate((i,j,k), fn())



From scasjos at mixmail.com  Thu Jul 10 08:41:28 2003
From: scasjos at mixmail.com (jose maria)
Date: 10 Jul 2003 05:41:28 -0700
Subject: Executing a remote process via WMI in Win32.
References: <becdmd$hbo$1@canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca>
Message-ID: <99071af2.0307100441.1f8c9b66@posting.google.com>

"Sean" <null-spam at tfh.ca> wrote in message news:<becdmd$hbo$1 at canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca>...
> I can connect to a machine remotely with no problems but I'm having trouble
> trying to create a process remotely.  Initially this was a perl and VB
> script which I'm converting to python.  Its entire purpose is to start a
> process remotely.  The problem initially was that the perl script could not
> 'see' any mapped drives as it would alway return 'access denied' so I'm
> trying to not only rewrite the script but fix this problem and my idea was
> to connect with the Administrator account.
> 
> Now the following script sort of works.  I can get the set of running
> processes but it dies out when I try to create one.
> 
> ## being ##
> import win32com.client
> wmi = win32com.client.Dispatch('wbemscripting.swbemlocator')
> remote_machine =
> wmi.ConnectServer('<MACHINE>','root\\cimv2',Administrator','<PASSWORD>')
> 
> process = remote_machine.InstancesOf("Win32_Process")
> for proc in process:
>     size = int(proc.WorkingSetSize)/1024
>     print proc.Caption, size,"kb"
> # test to see if we can 'see' what's on a mapped drive.
> # doesn't seem to go.
> process.Create("cmd.exe /K dir w:\\")
> ## END ##
> 
> The script will print out all the processes fine but once it get's to
> 'Create' it dies out with and error message I don't understand.
> 
> NOTEPAD.EXE 80 kb
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "C:\Documents and Settings\scody\test.py", line 14, in ?
>     process.Create("cmd.exe /K dir w:\\")
>   File "C:\Python23\lib\site-packages\win32com\client\dynamic.py", line 460,
> in
> __getattr__
>     raise AttributeError, "%s.%s" % (self._username_, attr)
> AttributeError: InstancesOf.Create
> 
> The process method should only have the one parameter as defined at:
> http://userpages.umbc.edu/~kbradl1/wsz/ref/WMIref.html#process
> 
> I just tried using the 'Terminate' process but that didn't work either....
> 
> So I'm going to assume that the WMI objects are not instantiated as python
> classes (hence why the methods are not working).  Am I completely off base
> here (meaning it is a syntax problem)?
> 
> Any suggestions or pointers to the right direction would be creately
> appriciated...



Hi Sean I?m now work in a module that create several kind of methods
to manage process using wmi take one example:

I?m use ActiveState Python 2.2.1 firts you have it?s that python know
of existencie of WMI for instance you must use COMMakepy utility now
Python *knows* about the 'WMI Scripting' typelibrary.

Note:this part of script its tested in windows 2000 and its functional
except in windows 2000 with SP2 that failed and I don?t know why

Example create process:
(After Use Makepy)
import win32com.client
wmi = win32com.client.Dispatch('wbemscripting.swbemlocator')
remote_machine =
wmi.ConnectServer('<MACHINE>','root\\cimv2',Administrator','<PASSWORD>')
strProcess=("cmd.exe /K & dir w:\\") #this is very important you must
put &
objprocess = remote_machine.Get('Win32_Process')
Method = objProcess.Methods_('Create')
InParameters = Method.InParameters.SpawnInstance_()
InParameters.Properties_.Item('CommandLine').Value=strProcess
try:
     OutParameters = objProcess.ExecMethod_ ('Create',InParameters)
     ReturnValue = OutParameters.Properties_.Item('ReturnValue').Value
     ProcessID = OutParameters.Properties_.Item('ProcessId').Value
except pythoncom.com_error, (hr,msg,exc,arg):
            ExceptionHandler(hr,msg,exc,arg)

def ExceptionHandler (self,hr,msg,exc,arg):
            print 'COM call failed: %s' % msg
            if exc is not None:
                wcode, source, text, helpFile, helpID, scode = exc
                print 'Error source:',source
                print text
                print 'See also: %s (id=%d)' % (helpFile,helpID)


Example kill process:

strPid="'yourpid'" # In this form else not work
sql="SELECT * FROM  Win32_Process WHERE ProcessId=%s" %strPid 
            objProc=objprocess.ExecQuery(sql)
            if objProc.Count==0:
                print "Pid strPid Not Found"
            else:
                for process in objProc:
                    strmeth = process.Methods_('Terminate')
                    strparms=strmeth.InParameters
                    strparms.Properties_('Reason').Value=0
                    process.ExecMethod_('Terminate',strparms)
                
Sorry Sean for my bad Enghlis I hope help you



From usenet_spam at janc.invalid  Tue Jul 15 22:24:33 2003
From: usenet_spam at janc.invalid (JanC)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 02:24:33 GMT
Subject: Confusing automated translators.
References: <37d6f77c.0307130932.1e3adf0d@posting.google.com> <3f11ac74$0$49101$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl> <ad052e5c.0307131718.4903430d@posting.google.com> <3F12808B.E53193B8@hotmail.com> <mailman.1058189001.18190.python-list@python.org> <3F12CE17.76A0A5@hotmail.com> <16146.53798.759651.430032@montanaro.dyndns.org> <mailman.1058213782.3688.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Xns93BA2CD86700EJanC@213.118.75.80>

Francois Pinard <pinard at iro.umontreal.ca> schreef:

>    "The firm driver is carrying her."

Which is a nice example of something that could be misunderstood in 
English.  ;-)

(Is the driver strong or does he work for a firm?)

-- 
JanC

"Be strict when sending and tolerant when receiving."
RFC 1958 - Architectural Principles of the Internet - section 3.9



From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Jul 15 12:26:57 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 12:26:57 -0400
Subject: Stop Python from exiting upon error in Windows
References: <vh6jmv2f767h8b@corp.supernews.com> <n2o6hvcahk7dlmn9t26tvis8umnfg1tdeo@4ax.com> <3F136BEA.5B56562@engcorp.com> <vh6v443q2fjab3@corp.supernews.com> <vh8agkdkcntn20@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <3F142B51.94C898BC@engcorp.com>

Robert at AbilitySys.com wrote:
> 
> Ok, I figured out the IDLE block indent (duh - RTFMenu), and now it works
> great in DOS. Again, thanks to all who helped.
> 
> However, I'd still like to know how to determine what environment I'm
> running under inside my code. Any suggestions?

I doubt if there's any particular way to do it consistently.  In 
principle one could write a cute module which would be able to check
the "signature" of the environment to figure it all out.  Check if 
certain modules are in __builtins__ to see if you are running inside
an application that uses Python for scripting, check for sys.argv[0]
to learn whether you were launched in a way that suggests running as
a script with python.exe, etc.

It's probably not a great idea to write anything which depends on this
however, and it sounds like more time than it's worth.

-Peter



From fredrik at pythonware.com  Fri Jul  4 11:23:07 2003
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 17:23:07 +0200
Subject: sys.setedefaultencoding()
References: <A128D751272CD411BC9200508BC2194D018856E2@escpl.tcp.com.ar>
Message-ID: <be463u$98r$1@main.gmane.org>

Facundo Batista:

> Learning (and needing it) Unicode, in Dive Into Python found the
> sys.setedefaultencoding() method. Very nice, but in the documentation of the
> 2.2.1 version, says that this method is new in 2.0 version.
>
> I've got installed Python 2.1.1 and when I do dir(sys), don't get that
> method!! Strange. And ugly, :(

sys.setdefaultencoding() shouldn't be used by application programs;
it was added for test purposes only.

if you really need to change the encoding, tweak site or sitecustomize,
and be aware that 1) python programs you write may not work on other
systems, and 2) extensions may not work properly on your system.

> - Why this happens?

site.py removes the function.

> - How can I, by a different method, set the default encoding?

the default encoding is ASCII, and shouldn't be changed.  good practice
is to decode data on the way in, use Unicode strings on the inside, and
encode data on the way out.

(see the codecs module for information on how to created encoded
streams).

</F>







From bokr at oz.net  Sat Jul 12 23:59:53 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 13 Jul 2003 03:59:53 GMT
Subject: Python - if/else statements
References: <pan.2003.07.11.19.34.16.330762@yahoo.com> <ben6uf$tcr$0@216.39.172.122> <pan.2003.07.11.23.16.08.781512@yahoo.com> <benpvl$9kj$0@216.39.172.122> <pan.2003.07.12.02.27.29.730366@yahoo.com> <beq4io$19r$0@216.39.172.122> <pan.2003.07.13.00.30.47.81216@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <beqlfp$21k$0@216.39.172.122>

On Sun, 13 Jul 2003 12:30:52 +1200, dmbkiwi <dmbkiwi at yahoo.com> wrote:

>On Sat, 12 Jul 2003 23:11:20 +0000, Bengt Richter wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 12 Jul 2003 14:27:33 +1200, dmbkiwi <dmbkiwi at yahoo.com> wrote:
>> 
>>>On Sat, 12 Jul 2003 01:58:13 +0000, Bengt Richter wrote:
>>>
>> [...]
>>>> If that is really happening, I wonder if you are somehow executing code from a different version
>>>> or have some kind of mixed-up installation. Or are using incompatible extension modules?
>>>> Do you have multiple versions installed? what are your versions, and what sym links are there?
>>>> And what are the #! lines of your script(s)?
>>>
>>>One point that I may not have made clear is that I'm not experiencing this
>>>behaviour personally with my set up.  It is other people using this script
>> Is it a single .py file?
BTW, since you uploaded it, is there an URL for it?
>
>Yes, although it imports a module called karamba (see my original post -
>this is a theme run through a theme engine called superkaramba).
>
Unfortunately that makes me imagine an engine in a theme park, maybe in Argentina ;-P
IOW I know nothing about theme engines ;-)

>> 
>>>who are reporting this behaviour.  The difficulty I'm having is that it's
>>>very hard to debug a problem you're not having.  I've sent versions of the
>>>script to these people, with print statements at appropriate points to
>>>ensure that the script is doing what I think it's doing (in terms of going
>>>wrong for them), and from the output they send back, the interpreter is
>>>definitely ignoring the else statement and ploughing through them, even
>>>though, it's also executed the corresponding if statement.
>>>
>> I wonder if your script is executed directly by Python. Perhaps it is "sanitized"
>> for security reasons before being executed in some context, and it gets glitched,
>> in the sanitizing process. If so, could you ask them to put a debug print to
>> show what's actually being executed? And ask them how it's being executed
>> (ie, exec vs exec in somedir vs execfile vs import and invoke vs whatever they do).
>
>It is being executed through the superkaramba engine (written in c++ I
>believe).  Not sure if I, or my users have enough gumption to do the
>debugging you are referring to.  I have asked them to execute the script
>which contains a number of print statements to verify that it is ignoring
>the else statement.  Is there other debugging info that I should be
>printing when running the script?
Maybe write a little test of if/else that doesn't depend on any data
that you don't control right in the test. E.g., since most of your tests test for == 1 or 0,

 >>> for testval in (0, 1, None, (), [], '', 'x'):
 ...     if testval == 0: print '%r==0?'%(testval,),
 ...     else: print 'not %r==0?'%(testval,),
 ...     if testval == 1: print '%r==1?'%(testval,),
 ...     else: print 'not %r==1?'%(testval,),
 ...     if testval: print 'if %r?'%(testval,),
 ...     else: print 'not if %r?'%(testval,),
 ...     print
 ...
 0==0? not 0==1? not if 0?
 not 1==0? 1==1? if 1?
 not None==0? not None==1? not if None?
 not ()==0? not ()==1? not if ()?
 not []==0? not []==1? not if []?
 not ''==0? not ''==1? not if ''?
 not 'x'==0? not 'x'==1? if 'x'?

Everything should be true (with not prefixes considered).

If the if/else tests are not working right for local variables, maybe the results will be
glitched. Also declare a global _with the rest, not a separate line_, say g_testval,
and do another loop like the above with testval changed to g_testval everywhere.
If either of these glitch, I'd bet on the global one, but I actually expect them both to
work. It would make another data point though.

And just FTHOI, give them a version with 100% space indenting.

Then the question would be, if these tests work, why don't the tests in the original code.
We could also ask users to run these tests in some simpler context -- what if they just
run the above loops in a def test(): (so there's a difference between local and global)
with nothing more in the script than test() to invoke it? That must work from the console
command line python, or they are totally FUBAR. But it's a data point on the no-errors side
of the fence.

We could then break down the code into painfully primitive steps, and print (where does
printing go, BTW? is stdout captured for you in a file?) the results of each step. Again
if something is parsing and potentially modifying the code before executing, giving it
something dead simple to parse might help. Can someone say if the code is given to the interpreter
completely unmodified, so we can put that to rest?

In the meanwhile, if most users have no problem, maybe you have to make a table of user configurations
-- versions of linux, bsd, python (multiversion? how last upgraded?), libraries? gcc stuff?
etc. until a pattern emerges as to who has the problems and how they are different.

Maybe make a little script to capture all that info and make it easy for folks to give it to you.
(I wouldn't try to make it automatically send an email without their informed consent, though ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Sun Jul 27 20:44:11 2003
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 20:44:11 -0400
Subject: changing the List's behaviour?
References: <mailman.1059338081.22895.python-list@python.org> <slrnbi8hg5.1mm.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>
Message-ID: <NeOdnSvmybp97LmiXTWJkg@comcast.com>

> > i want to change the List so that it returns None if the index for
> > accesssing list elements is out of bound.

Slicing always 'works' (does not raise exception), so seq[i:i+1]
returns empty slice rather than length 1 slice if i too large.  This
is a standard idiom for getting, for instance, first element of list
if there is one when there might not be.

So slice and condition off length and if 1, extract element. This has
advantage over idea above that [] is different from [None] (which you
would get is seq[i]==None).

Terry J. Reedy





From bogus at antispam.com  Tue Jul 22 22:20:59 2003
From: bogus at antispam.com (Alex)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 22:20:59 -0400
Subject: Stopping a loop with user input. in curses
References: <pan.2003.07.21.04.47.34.434712@antispam.com> <20030722045203.23831.00000293@mb-m27.aol.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2003.07.23.02.20.59.56220@antispam.com>

> Ray says >> Hi Alex  
> 
> You got your answer to the second part of the problem from-- 
> 
> From: "Dr. Peer Griebel" griebel at konzept-is.de
> 
> Credit where credit is due !
> 
I certainly didn't want to take anything away from the good doctor.
He not only helped me solve the problem, but pointed me towards a
very interesting module that I might have otherwise overlooked.

I've got to say that the amount of modules in Python is completely
mind-boggling. I'm sure many people have written convoluted
functions that could probably have been replaced by simple "from 
module import function" command.

I guess python isn't only about learning the proper syntax and such,
it's also about learning about all of the modules out there.

... Lord, what have I gotten myself into... :)

Thank the gods that there are places like this newsgroup and the
[Tutor] mailing list. I have to say that I'm super impressed with
the sort of community the Python programming language has. Everyone
is really very helpful.


...and I was simply confused earlier when I said I had posted to
another Ray. For some reason, one of your posts showed up as
"author: Chatralias".


Alex



From edreamleo at charter.net  Thu Jul 31 12:47:08 2003
From: edreamleo at charter.net (Edward K. Ream)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 11:47:08 -0500
Subject: Python's biggest compromises
References: <899f842.0307310555.56134f71@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <viii0hhpj2t5be@corp.supernews.com>

> What to you think python largest compromises are?

There aren't any.

You want to base significant projects on the highest level, most dynamic
tools available (Python), then use Python as a wrapper to hide static
inflexibilities and inferiorities when descending to lower levels for
whatever (usually spurious) reasons.  For example, there is a huge
difference between using wxWindows and wxPython, but the performance
difference between wxWindows and wxPython is insignificant.

Edward
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Edward K. Ream   email:  edreamleo at charter.net
Leo: Literate Editor with Outlines
Leo: http://webpages.charter.net/edreamleo/front.html
--------------------------------------------------------------------





From jon+usenet at unequivocal.co.uk  Tue Jul  8 13:59:12 2003
From: jon+usenet at unequivocal.co.uk (Jon Ribbens)
Date: 8 Jul 2003 17:59:12 GMT
Subject: Python vs PHP
References: <mailman.1057574470.1750.python-list@python.org> <kmolgv4mp12o71ocion7ra0m2s9fcrqjdk@4ax.com> <slrnbglqp8.os1.jon+usenet@snowy.squish.net> <h7rlgvkogjr3t8geb36v6jjk4u5n9cdm2s@4ax.com> <slrnbgltd7.os1.jon+usenet@snowy.squish.net> <moulgv8ehi6680j6to1ai6tlmopm0srons@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <slrnbgm1jg.sv7.jon+usenet@snowy.squish.net>

In article <moulgv8ehi6680j6to1ai6tlmopm0srons at 4ax.com>, Afanasiy wrote:
> CGI, FastCGI, SCGI are not faster than mod_python in my experience and
> straightforward benchmark.

In the case of CGI, yes of course. In the case of FastCGI, your
experience contradicts my own.

> That's all I can really say about it. CGI is not an option for me.

I don't understand why you keep saying "CGI is not an option" when
nobody has suggested that you use it.



From jim_938 at hotmail.com  Mon Jul  7 04:23:15 2003
From: jim_938 at hotmail.com (Jimmy verma)
Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 13:53:15 +0530
Subject: strings problem
Message-ID: <Sea1-F44Uova4aaxOBk0000a5c2@hotmail.com>

...

print t

The output is

Token: 50
Token: 800
\275\371\264

Instead of this i want the output should be in no's like this:
bdF9B4


print repr(t)

'\xbd\xf9\xb4'

print ''.join(['%02X' % ord(c) for c in t])

BDF9B4




yeah that solved the problem. Can you please tell me sthing more regarding 
what you have suggested here:

print ' ' .join([' 02X' % ord(c) for c in t])

Thanks again.

regards,

_________________________________________________________________
Dress up your desktop! Get the best wallpapers. 
http://server1.msn.co.in/msnchannels/Entertainment/wallpaperhome.asp Just 
click here!





From Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org  Sun Jul 27 16:29:38 2003
From: Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org (Scott David Daniels)
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 13:29:38 -0700
Subject: multithreading-problem
In-Reply-To: <bg0ubo$ujq$00$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <bg0ubo$ujq$00$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <3f243632$1@nntp0.pdx.net>

Diez B. Roggisch wrote:
> ...
> for i in xrange(4):
>   thread = threading.Thread(target=lambda : foo(i))
>   thread.start()
> ... So it appears that the curried lambda passed as target is 
 > somehow a reference equal for all four invocations....
This is why the "curry" recipe dances more jig than you have.
the lambda-expression that you've passed in did not do any
value-capture.  The smallest fix is:
 > ...
 > for i in xrange(4):
 >   thread = threading.Thread(target=lambda v=i: foo(v))
 >   thread.start()
 > ...

With curry from the Python Cookbook (or as below), I'd write:
 > ...
 > for i in xrange(4):
 >   thread = threading.Thread(target=curry(foo, i))
 >   thread.start()
 > ...

The problem is that your lambda expression looks up "i" at function
evaluation time (when target is called), not when you assign the
target function for the thread.

-Scott David Daniels
Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org


=============================
for 2.2 I define curry as:

from __future__ import nested_scopes

def curry(*_args, **_kwargs):
     """curry(f,<args>)(<more>) == f(<args>, <more>) (roughly).

     keyword args in the curry call can be overridden by keyword args
     in the later call; curry can be used to change defaults.
     """
     def result(*__args, **__kwargs):
         if _kwargs and __kwargs:
             kwargs = _kwargs.copy()
             kwargs.update(__kwargs)
         else:
             kwargs = _kwargs or __kwargs
         return _args[0](*(_args[1:]+__args), **kwargs)
     return result




From belred1 at yahoo.com  Sun Jul 13 18:42:21 2003
From: belred1 at yahoo.com (Bryan)
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 22:42:21 GMT
Subject: anything like C++ references?
References: <b8c3hvsesjoumiboobml3nsnajtha99mp1@4ax.com> <mailman.1058129901.28248.python-list@python.org> <plk3hv0s1m2egf4s34jo6vjedk0q8r2mu9@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <hflQa.48826$wk6.12216@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net>

> 3.  Why is there no way to reference an immutable object via a
> pointer, other than stuffing it into a mutable object designed for
> some purpose other than simple pointer behaviour?
>

>>> a = (1, 2, 3)
>>> b = a
>>> id(a)
15471760
>>> id(b)
15471760
>>> print b[1]
2
>>>


i just referenced an immutable object via a "pointer" and i __did_not__
stuff it into a mutable object as you say.
a and b "point" to the same object.

bryan





From skip at pobox.com  Wed Jul 30 15:22:29 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 14:22:29 -0500
Subject: time, calendar, datetime, etc
In-Reply-To: <153fa67.0307300326.45a29380@posting.google.com>
References: <153fa67.0307300326.45a29380@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <16168.6901.829996.304197@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    kylotan> Is there any chance of these modules becoming somewhat combined
    kylotan> in the future?

Maybe.  Perhaps you would like to write a PEP?

    kylotan> Right now it seems a little awkward to find the function you
    kylotan> want. The main culprit is 'timegm' which is the only thing I
    kylotan> need from the calendar module but which should probably be in
    kylotan> the time module.

I've never used it, but it looks like you're right.  It's the GMT/UTC
equivalent of time.mktime(), right?

    kylotan> PS. I use 'time.strptime(myTime, '%a %b %d %H:%M:%S %Y')' as a
    kylotan> reverse-asctime(), and was surprised that I couldn't find this
    kylotan> wrapped in a function in any of the modules. Maybe such a
    kylotan> function would be considered for future addition?

Seems simple enough to not be needed.  What makes asctime() all that
special?

Skip




From csad7 at yahoo.com  Sun Jul 20 09:14:18 2003
From: csad7 at yahoo.com (christof hoeke)
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 15:14:18 +0200
Subject: xml processing and sys.setdefaultencoding
Message-ID: <bfe4it$8ra$02$1@news.t-online.com>

hi,
i wrote a small application which extracts a javadoc similar documentation
for xslt stylesheets using python, xslt and pyana.
using non-ascii characters was a problem. so i set the defaultending to
UTF-8 and now everything works (at least it seems so, need to do more
testing though).

it may not be the most elegant solution (according to python in a nutshell)
but it almost seems when doing xml processing it is mandatory to set the
default encoding. xml processing should almost only work with unicode
strings and this seems the easiest solution.

any comments on this? better ways to work

thanks
chris





From codepunk at codepunk.com  Wed Jul 23 02:18:26 2003
From: codepunk at codepunk.com (Codepunk)
Date: 22 Jul 2003 23:18:26 -0700
Subject: Cluster Node Auto Discovery
Message-ID: <f1fd7b3.0307222211.7ccadd97@posting.google.com>

Hi Everyone,

I have written a specialized server in python and now I wish to look
at making it scalable. To do this I wish to include automatic
discovery of peer nodes operating on my network. Can anyone provide me
a pointer as to how I do such a thing? By how to do it I mean how does
something like that work at the network level?

ping scan the ip range?
some sort of broadcast packet?
udp request to entire ip range?

I am not asking for code just how is something like that typically
done?



From theller at python.net  Wed Jul  9 07:55:42 2003
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 13:55:42 +0200
Subject: pythonw freezes with print output
References: <20030709.9220899@tomsbook.internedomain.loc>
Message-ID: <4r1vsym9.fsf@python.net>

Thomas Kwapich <evotrain at gmx.net> writes:

> Hi,
>
> I'm developing a wxpython application under windows 2000. 
> If I start it with pythonw.exe (without dos window) it freezes 
> after some time depending on the amount of print output it generates. 
> On the other hand if I start it with python.exe (the dos window is shown) 
> it is stable.
> Reducing the print output to zero makes it even stable when started with 
> pythonw.
>
> (I tried to debug it with SciTe but it doesn't crash with it altough 
> SciTe starts it with pythonw)
>
> Any ideas why this happens?

It is my experience (with Win2k and XP, and Python 2.2 at least) that
you get an IOError after writing 4096 bytes (or so) to sys.stdout.

You should probably redirect sys.stdout and sys.stderr to a file, or a
file-like object, otherwise you won't see any output or any tracebacks.

(It may work in SciTe because SciTe catches the output of the program itself?)

Thomas



From webmaster at beyond-thoughts.com  Tue Jul 29 18:20:28 2003
From: webmaster at beyond-thoughts.com (Christoph Becker-Freyseng)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 00:20:28 +0200
Subject: memory leak troubleshooting techniques
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1059426286.4132.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1059426286.4132.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3F26F32C.9060609@beyond-thoughts.com>

Adam Deutsch wrote:
> I would like to ask some advice about tracking down memory leaks in Python
> code.
> 
> We have a python application running on Python 2.0.1 in an embedded Linux
> environment (kernel version 2.4.7).  We have recently detected a memory leak
> that we can see from "ps aux" is attributable to the Python processes.
> Running Sam Rushing's (http://www.nightmare.com/medusa/memory-leaks.html)
> get_refcounts() function does not yield any smoking guns:  the reference
> counts for all classes remain stable even as memory use climbs.
> 
> Is there any systematic method of determining how Python is using its
> allocated memory?
> 
> Thanks.
> 
There might be one more readon for a memory-leak -- besides an 
increasing refcount.

Have you thought about a growing string? (or an similar object)
In Python a string can have 80 MB without problems / not "hurting" python.
Of course the refount won't get higher as there's just one string -- but 
this one might be getting *huge*.
I had such a problem when programming PersistentThreads. Making internal 
calls to the "ZopeRequestDispatcher" caused sys.path to grow.

Unfortunately I don't know a way in Python to list objects that consume 
more than xy bytes of memory.


Christoph Becker-Freyseng






From duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk  Wed Jul 23 04:36:57 2003
From: duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk (Duncan Booth)
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 08:36:57 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: A challenge to the ASCII proponents.
References: <mailman.1058278343.23104.python-list@python.org> <bf167a$pvt$1@panix2.panix.com> <ufzl7rdno.fsf@online.no> <3F142A58.80426AA4@hotmail.com> <2259b0e2.0307161620.4a9353f1@posting.google.com> <Xns93BB246FDDBCFJanC@213.118.75.80> <3F168011.3AEB3EFC@hotmail.com> <3F172442.2040907@v.loewis.de> <3F17C1D4.1A70703A@hotmail.com> <m3fzl3lvg6.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <3F1849A0.CB3053D8@hotmail.com> <amqqhv0gbdok6dnk6ib9342lejpc4ap5pd@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <Xns93C160E9ED2F3duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

Christos "TZOTZIOY" Georgiou <tzot at sil-tec.gr> wrote in 
news:amqqhv0gbdok6dnk6ib9342lejpc4ap5pd at 4ax.com:

> If I may say it sideways, try searching for google for the french word
> "c?fe", as in "un c?fe s'il vous pla?t".  Wanna bet my message will be
> the only one to be found? :)

Since when is 'c?fe' a French word? It doesn't appear in any French 
dictionary I have tried. 

-- 
Duncan Booth                                             duncan at rcp.co.uk
int month(char *p){return(124864/((p[0]+p[1]-p[2]&0x1f)+1)%12)["\5\x8\3"
"\6\7\xb\1\x9\xa\2\0\4"];} // Who said my code was obscure?



From ulope at gmx.de  Fri Jul 25 03:37:46 2003
From: ulope at gmx.de (Ulrich Petri)
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 09:37:46 +0200
Subject: file.close()
References: <edITa.131868$Ph3.17333@sccrnsc04> <mailman.1059052897.16526.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bfqmoc$hs6ui$1@ID-67890.news.uni-berlin.de>

"Francois Pinard" <pinard at iro.umontreal.ca> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:mailman.1059052897.16526.python-list at python.org...
> [Bryan]
>
> > I'm curious to know how others handle the closing of files.  [...] I'm
> > aware that files will automatically be closed when the process exits.
>
> For one, I systematically avoid cluttering my code with unneeded `close'.
> The advantages are simplicity and legibility, both utterly important to
me.
>
> However, I do understand that if I ever have to move a Python script
> to Jython, I will have to revise my scripts for adding the clutter I am
> sparing today.  I'm quite accepting to do that revision if this occurs.
> Until then, I prefer keeping my scripts as neat as possible.
>
> For me, explicitely closing a file, for which the only reference is about
> to disappear through function exiting, would be very similar to using
> `del' on any variable I happened to use in that function: gross
overkill...
>
> The only reason to call `close' explicitly is when there is a need to
close
> prematurely.  Absolutely no doubt that such needs exist at times.  But
> closing all the time "just in case" is symptomatic of unsure programming.
> Or else, it is using Python while still thinking in other languages.
>

fire up your python and type: "import this" read the output and rethink your
codint techniques

Ciao Ulrich





From bignose-hates-spam at and-benfinney-does-too.id.au  Thu Jul 24 18:22:52 2003
From: bignose-hates-spam at and-benfinney-does-too.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: 25 Jul 2003 08:12:52 +0950
Subject: Standard behaviour of a getSomething method
References: <mailman.1059081638.8769.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrnbi0o7c.hkq.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>

On Thu, 24 Jul 2003 18:09:53 -0300, Batista, Facundo wrote:
> Resending... get no answers, don't remember if this mail reached the
> list.

It reached the newsgroup, and discussion ensued.

    <http://groups.google.com/groups?threadm=38ec68a6.0307231932.7a7f53eb%40posting.google.com>

-- 
 \       "Too many pieces of music finish too long after the end."  -- |
  `\                                                  Igor Stravinskey |
_o__)                                                                  |
http://bignose.squidly.org/ 9CFE12B0 791A4267 887F520C B7AC2E51 BD41714B



From bertvansesamstraat at hotmail.com  Thu Jul 10 07:46:23 2003
From: bertvansesamstraat at hotmail.com (Maurice)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 11:46:23 +0000
Subject: Maxmium bufsize using open2?
Message-ID: <bejc0u$e0u$1@news.tudelft.nl>

Dear all,

I've a problem using popen2 when using large files.
When I use small input files everything works well but when I feed large 
inputfile to the pipe nothing happens. Is there a maximum bufsize for 
using the pipe. The code I use is written down here below. Do I need to 
specify a waittime between line 4 and 5 ?


o,i =popen2('command '))
fh=open(os.path.join(self.dirname, self.filename),'r')
i.write(fh.read())
i.close()
self.StringData=o.read()
o.close()
	




From peter at engcorp.com  Sat Jul 12 05:16:38 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 05:16:38 -0400
Subject: Small Python, Java comparison
References: <mailman.1057953857.30422.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3F0FD1F6.7EA63344@engcorp.com>

Dave Brueck wrote:
> 
> I certainly
> wouldn't have gotten "approval" to do the simple rewrite, but doing it in my
> spare time and having a comprehensive test suite made it possible.

Maybe that will change the next time, after others have seen how short
a time it took you and how effective the results are.

-Peter



From ckohrt at igsb.uiowa.edu  Mon Jul 14 10:56:00 2003
From: ckohrt at igsb.uiowa.edu (Casey Kohrt)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 09:56:00 -0500
Subject: Encoding error
Message-ID: <60CC7EB7BC00D511B0C80060083FD8F0951EA7@dunleith.igsb.uiowa.edu>

I get the following error for the list item below.  I know I have to encode
it, but am unsure how or where to write that in.  I am new to python and
have had good luck thus far.  Any help is greatly apprecieated.  I am not on
the list, so a response to me is appreciated.

UnicodeError: ASCII encoding error: ordinal not in range(128)   


    eainfo = doc.createElement("eainfo")
    metadata.appendChild(eainfo)
    overview = doc.createElement("overview")
    eainfo.appendChild(overview)
    eaover = doc.createElement("eaover")
    text = doc.createTextNode(str(list[83]))
    eaover.appendChild(text)
    overview.appendChild(eaover)

Casey Kohrt
GIS Librarian
Iowa Geological Survey 
109 Trowbridge Hall
Iowa City, Iowa 52242
319-335-1353
ckohrt at igsb.uiowa.edu

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From tsteward at dodo.com.au  Wed Jul  9 06:08:45 2003
From: tsteward at dodo.com.au (Tony Steward)
Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 10:08:45 GMT
Subject: Why Python
Message-ID: <3f0be9ac@news.comindico.com.au>

Hello All,
I am looking for a programming language to use to write a database type
application to run on windows machines. Is python for me or pls suggest what
is.

Is there a page that explains in simple terms what Python can do on windows?
Is there an IDE?
Is the windows api pre wrapped?

Thanks
Tony





From mis6 at pitt.edu  Mon Jul 21 10:26:15 2003
From: mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato)
Date: 21 Jul 2003 07:26:15 -0700
Subject: recognizing empty iterators
Message-ID: <2259b0e2.0307210626.11a1bbf1@posting.google.com>

After a recent thread on .endswith, I have been thinking about iterators.
I realized that I don't know a satisfactory way to check if an
iterator is empty. In other words I am looking for an
"isempty" function to use in "if" statements such as

if isempty(iterator):
   do_something()

without side effects. Here are some unsatisfactory ways of implementing
"isempty":

#1: converting to a list or tuple
def isempty(iterator):
    return not list(iterator)

Easy, but one has to create the entire list, thus defecting the basic
purpose of the iterator, i.e. lazy evaluation.

#2: checking for StopIteration
def isempty(iterator):
    try:
        iterator.next()
    except StopIteration:
        return True
    else:
        return False

This works, for instance

print isempty(iter([]))

gives True and 

it=iter([1,2,3])
print isempty(it)

gives False. However, there is a side effect: after the check, the
iterator has advanced of one step and now "it.next()" gives 2, not 1. 
In order this to work without side effects, I should be able to restart 
the iterator from the beginning, but I don't know how to do that.
Is it possible?

#3: comparing with the empty iterator

emptyiterator=iter([])

it=iter([])

if it == emptyiterator: print 'Ok!'

This simply doesn't work.

I wonder if the itertools module should contain a function to check for
empty iterators, thus simplifying my life ;) Of course, I may well be
missing something obvious, if so, please enlighten me.


                Michele



From logistix at cathoderaymission.net  Wed Jul 30 22:05:13 2003
From: logistix at cathoderaymission.net (logistix at cathoderaymission.net)
Date: 30 Jul 2003 19:05:13 -0700
Subject: Embedded python: dotted (sub) module name
Message-ID: <3c91a864.0307301805.7cfea740@posting.google.com>

I get the feeling I'm just picking the wrong google search phrase
here, because I'm finding nothing.  I'm trying to namespace out some
embedded python modules.  This works:

	Py_InitModule("game", py_game_methods);

but this doesn't:

	Py_InitModule("quake.game", py_game_methods);

What am I missing here? Any help would be appreciated.



From m.hadfield at niwa.co.nz  Thu Jul 10 18:53:48 2003
From: m.hadfield at niwa.co.nz (Mark Hadfield)
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 10:53:48 +1200
Subject: Convert between Windows style paths and POSIX style paths
References: <c9d82136.0307101244.4594e04d@posting.google.com> <3F0DE565.1CEA39C6@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <bekqpu$elf$1@newsreader.mailgate.org>

"Peter Hansen" <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message
news:3F0DE565.1CEA39C6 at engcorp.com...
> Noah wrote:
> >
> > Does anyone have a function to convert back and forth between
> > NT style paths and POSIX style? It seems trivial, but
> > I want to make sure I don't overlook some obscure detail.
> > Is it a simple matter of translating / and \ characters?
> >
> > FYI, I need a Python function that does what cygpath does so that
> > I can run a script on either NT or UNIX or Cygwin.
> > I want my config files use one style of path.
>
> You can use forward slashes in paths under Win32, except at the
> command prompt.
>
> Even if you switch to use all forward slashes, however, what do
> you plan to do about drive letters?  There is no obvious mapping
> to anything under POSIX, I think.  Are you planning on disallowing
> paths that go anywhere but the current drive under NT?

Well, if you're running on an NT system with Cygwin installed, then the
obvious thing to do (really the only sensible thing to do IMHO) is to use
the mappings provided by Cygwin. These are set up in the registry and
accessed via commands like mount and cygpath, which call functions in
cygwin.dll. Eg my system has the following:

  D:\Cygwin <==> /
  D:\Local <==> /usr/local

And if you want to do *that* then the easiest way, though not the fastest,
is to run the cygpath command and trap the output. I have modules that do
this in Windows & Cygwin Python, if you (meaning the OP) are interested.
Another way is to access the registry and try to duplicate Cygwin's logic. I
tried this but gave up on it--life's too short for that. Or you try to adapt
the Cygwin C code. Or try to access the functions in cygwin.dll. Whatever.

On an NT system without Cygwin, or on a Unix system, then there is no
obvious mapping and (as far I can see) no need for one. Why do you want to
use one style of path in your config files? Surely it would be better to use
paths that are appropriate for the system, then process them with Python's
os module.

-- 
Mark Hadfield            "Ka puwaha te tai nei, Hoea tatou"
m.hadfield at niwa.co.nz
National Institute for Water and Atmospheric Research (NIWA)






From gh at ghaering.de  Mon Jul  7 10:11:08 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 16:11:08 +0200
Subject: NNTP mirror of c.l.p?
In-Reply-To: <2a897f11.0307070510.37a4ad41@posting.google.com>
References: <2a897f11.0307070510.37a4ad41@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3F097F7C.8090108@ghaering.de>

Wayne Pierce wrote:
> Does anyone know if there is a public server where I can download
> c.l.p?  I typically use GG, but want to test a program on my
> Palm-based system for accessing NNTP servers.

You could try news.gmane.org. Look for comp.python.general.

-- Gerhard




From genew at mail.ocis.net  Fri Jul 11 19:52:01 2003
From: genew at mail.ocis.net (Gene Wirchenko)
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 23:52:01 GMT
Subject: Collective memory
References: <mailman.1057083728.8224.python-list@python.org> <vg88va53uha8e@corp.supernews.com> <3F09F136.6060000@srv.net> <3F0B2857.6EE3A30F@ev1.net> <1fxw51u.2b4m6zc39wulN%proto@panix.com> <slrnbgt6ls.ab5.abigail@alexandra.abigail.nl> <1057926047.339659@saucer.planet.gong>
Message-ID: <3f0f2312.10854550@news.ocis.net>

"Rupert Pigott" <roo at dark-try-removing-this-boong.demon.co.uk> wrote:

>
>"Abigail" <abigail at abigail.nl> wrote in message
>news:slrnbgt6ls.ab5.abigail at alexandra.abigail.nl...
>> Walter Bushell (proto at panix.com) wrote on MMMDC September MCMXCIII in
>> <URL:news:1fxw51u.2b4m6zc39wulN%proto at panix.com>:
>> ++  Charles Richmond <richmond at ev1.net> wrote:
>> ++ <Snip>
>> ++ > int  *p, x, y;
>> ++ >
>> ++ > then:
>> ++ >
>> ++ >     y = x/*p;
>> ++ >
>> ++ > is quite different from:
>> ++ >
>> ++ >     y = x / *p;
>> ++ >
>> ++ > The first way, "/*" will begin a comment...the second way,
>> ++ > you get the integer "x" divided by the integer pointed to by "p".
>> ++
>> ++  Ouch!! That is one reason code coloring is *important*.
>>
>> Nope. That's a reason why code colouring is evil. If you write code,
>> and it isn't clear what you mean without the use of code colouring,
>> you did something wrong. Your code shouldn't rely on a specific code
>> colouring scheme to be understandable.
>>
>> All in my opinion of course.

     And mine.

>My preference has been to make heavy use of ()'s to
>make the meaning of expressions clear. Also I have
>seen people cut & paste expressions from one language
>to another without checking the precedence rules. You
>know what happened next ! :)

     Not unless I know the precedence rules.  <G>

     Another fun one is mixing languages that truncate when converting
float to integer and that round.  Like MBASIC 4 to MBASIC 5.  I still
remember that boneheaded maneuver over twenty years later.

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko

Computerese Irregular Verb Conjugation:
     I have preferences.
     You have biases.
     He/She has prejudices.



From FBatista at uniFON.com.ar  Wed Jul 23 09:17:27 2003
From: FBatista at uniFON.com.ar (Batista, Facundo)
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 10:17:27 -0300
Subject: Standard behaviour of a getSomething method
Message-ID: <A128D751272CD411BC9200508BC2194D03382C26@escpl.tcp.com.ar>

When I want to know about a attribute (e.g.: myAttrib) of an object, I
should use the specific method (e.g.: getMyAttrib).

Considering that this attribute is always another object (everything is an
object in Python), what should getMyAttrib do?

	1) Return the object
	2) Return a copy of the object

How do I return a copy of the object?

Thanks for all.

.	Facundo





. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
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son para uso exclusivo del destinatario y pueden contener informaci?n
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Si Ud. No es uno de los destinatarios consignados o la persona responsable
de hacer llegar este mensaje a los destinatarios consignados, no est?
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ella) contenida en este mensaje. Por favor notif?quenos respondiendo al
remitente, borre el mensaje original y borre las copias (impresas o grabadas
en cualquier medio magn?tico) que pueda haber realizado del mismo. 

Todas las opiniones contenidas en este mail son propias del autor del
mensaje y no necesariamente coinciden con las de Telef?nica Comunicaciones
Personales S.A. o alguna empresa asociada. 

Los mensajes electr?nicos pueden ser alterados, motivo por el cual
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From Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org  Sun Jul  6 04:19:06 2003
From: Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org (Scott David Daniels)
Date: 6 Jul 2003 01:19:06 -0700
Subject: getting a submatrix of all true
References: <mailman.1057173484.29754.python-list@python.org>
    <be4v0s$nmv$1@news.hccnet.nl> <3f07bd72$1@nntp0.pdx.net>
Message-ID: <3f07db7a@nntp0.pdx.net>

In article <3f07bd72$1 at nntp0.pdx.net>,
	scott.daniels at acm.org (Scott David Daniels) writes:
> Folllowing Bengt and anton at vredegoor.doge.nl (Anton Vredegoor)'s leads,
> the following code can be fast (at times).  It is quite sensitive to the
> probability of non-zeroness, (.01 works well, the .o5 is nowhere near so
> nice).
> 
> I get 2.25 min to do 25 x 25 at .05
>       2.75 min to do 30 x 30 at .05
> It gets slow _very_ fast, but gets good numbers if the probability is low
>        .25 min to do 45 x 45 at .01
>        1.5 min to do 50 x 50 at .01

OK, a bit faster: (bitcount faster, allow choose to sometimes quit early).
I get 0.25 min to do 25 x 25 at .05
       5.5 min to do 30 x 30 at .05	(?! maybe above was wrong)
and:
        1 sec to do 45 x 45 at .01
        9 sec to do 50 x 50 at .01

-Scott David Daniels
 Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org

###################################

# myopt.py

__version__ = '0.4'
try:
    assert list(enumerate('ab')) == [(0, 'a'), (1, 'b')]
except NameError:
    def enumerate(iterable):
        lst = list(iterable)
        return zip(range(len(lst)), lst)


def bitcount(row):
    '''Return the number of on bits in the integer'''
    assert row >= 0
    result = 0
    while row:
       result += 1
       lsbit = row & -row
       row ^= lsbit
    return result

bytebits = [bitcount(n) for n in range(256)] # precalculate byte counts

def bitcount(row):  # replace previous bitcount
    '''Return the number of on bits in the integer (byte at a time)'''
    assert row >= 0
    result = bytebits[row & 255]
    while row >= 256:
        row >>= 8
        result += bytebits[row & 255]
    return result


def rowencode(vector):
    '''convert from a buncha numbers to a bit-representation'''
    bit = 1L
    result = 0
    for element in vector:
        if element:
            result |= bit
        bit <<= 1
    return result


class Answer(object):
    '''An answer represents a result calculation.'''
    __slots__ = 'rows', 'colmask', '_score'
    totalrequests = 0
    totalcalcs = 0

    def __init__(self, colmask, rows):
        '''The columns in colmask are the ones we keep.'''
        self.colmask = colmask
        self.rows = rows
        self._score = None

    def score(self):
        '''Calculate the score lazily'''
        self.__class__.totalrequests += 1
        if self._score is None:
            self.__class__.totalcalcs += 1
            self._score = bitcount(self.colmask) * len(self.rows)
        return self._score

    def __repr__(self):
        return '%s(%d:%s, %x):%s' % (self.__class__.__name__,
                                      len(self.rows), self.rows,
                                      self.colmask, self._score)


totalcalls = 0

def choose(rows, keepcols, N=0, keeprows=None, best=None):
    '''Choose rows and columns to keep.  Return an Answer for the choice'''
    global totalcalls
    totalcalls += 1
    if keeprows is None:
        keeprows = []
    try:
        while 0 == rows[N] & keepcols:
            keeprows.append(N)
            N += 1
    except IndexError:
        return Answer(keepcols, keeprows)

    # a difference: some kept columns in this row are non-0
    # must drop either those columns or this row

    # Calculate result if we keep this row (drop problem columns)
    newmask = keepcols & ~rows[N]
    if best and newmask == best.colmask:
        withrow = best # Already have a calculated with this mask.  use it.
    else:
        withrow = choose(rows, keepcols & ~rows[N], N+1, keeprows + [N], best)

    # Calculate result if we drop this row
    skiprow = choose(rows, keepcols, N+1, keeprows, best or withrow)

    # Choose the better answer (keep the row if everything is equal).
    if (withrow.colmask == skiprow.colmask
     or withrow.score() >= skiprow.score()):
        return withrow
    else:
        return skiprow


# The data used from the example
X = [ [1, 0, 0, 0, 1],
      [0, 0, 0, 0, 0],
      [0, 0, 0, 1, 0],
      [0, 0, 0, 0, 0],
      [0, 0, 1, 0, 0],
      [0, 0, 1, 0, 0] ]


def printrep(row, symbols, mask=0):
    '''A row representing a single row (column-masked by mask)'''
    assert mask >= 0
    result = []
    for element in row:
        result.append(symbols[(1 & mask) * 2 + (element != 0)])
        mask >>= 1
    assert mask == 0  # mask doesn't extend beyond data.
    return ''.join(result)


def printanswer(data, rows, keepcols):
    '''Print the represented row'''
    toohuge = len(data)
    rowqueue = rows + [toohuge]
    rowqueue.reverse()
    nextrow = rowqueue.pop()
    for rownumber, row in enumerate(data):
        if nextrow > rownumber:
            # This row was zapped
            print '#', printrep(row, '01OI', keepcols)
        else:
            assert rownumber == nextrow # This row was kept
            nextrow = rowqueue.pop()
            print '_', printrep(row, '01~@', keepcols)
    assert nextrow == toohuge and not rowqueue


def getanswer(data):
    '''Calculate the best-cut for a particular matrix'''
    columns = max([len(row) for row in data])
    rowdata = [rowencode(row) for row in data]
    return choose(rowdata, (1L << columns) - 1)


def main(data=X):
    global totalcalls

    totalcalls = 0
    answer = getanswer(data)
    print 'Requested: %s, Calculated: %s,' % (
          Answer.totalrequests, Answer.totalcalcs),

    print 'answer: %r,' % answer,
    print 'Score: %s' % answer.score()
    print 'Total choose calls required: %s' % totalcalls

    printanswer(data, answer.rows, answer.colmask)



def rangen(rows, columns, probability=0.05):
    '''create a rows by columns data table with 1s at the given probability'''
    import random
    result = []
    for row in range(rows):
        result.append([int(random.random() < probability)
                       for column in range(columns)])
    return result


if __name__ == '__main__':
    import sys
    assert getanswer([[0]]).score() == 1
    assert getanswer([[0,1], [1,0]]).score() == 1
    assert getanswer([[0,1,0], [1,0,0]]).score() == 2
    if len(sys.argv) < 2:
        main(X)
    else:
        args = sys.argv[1:]
        if '.' in args[-1]:
            assert len(args) > 1
            probability = float(args.pop())
        else:
            probability = .2

        rows = int(args[0])
        if len(args) == 1:
            cols = rows
        else:
            assert len(args) == 2
            cols = int(args[1])
        main(rangen(rows, cols, probability))





From carsten at sarum.dk  Wed Jul 16 10:23:40 2003
From: carsten at sarum.dk (Carsten Gehling)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 16:23:40 +0200
Subject: pso - ImportError: No module named url
Message-ID: <BHEFKIOIMEDGILGDACKDCEIGDMAA.carsten@sarum.dk>

I've tried to install pso on my webserver and made the first test example.

When trying to run it (eg. from the prompt), I get the following error:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "test.py", line 3, in ?
    from pso.service import ServiceHandler
  File "/usr/local/lib/python2.2/pso/service.py", line 31, in ?
    from request import ServiceRequest, SERVER_RETURN
  File "/usr/local/lib/python2.2/pso/request.py", line 36, in ?
    from url import Url
ImportError: No module named url

I've checked my Python installation - there is no module named "url".

I thought it might be a misspelling of "urllib", but "urllib" is explicitly
imported a few lines above in request.py

System info:
OS: Redhat Linux 7.3
Python: 2.2.2
pso: 0.98.C-beta

- Carsten





From hanzspam at yahoo.com.au  Tue Jul 29 19:01:59 2003
From: hanzspam at yahoo.com.au (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Hannu_Kankaanp=E4=E4?=)
Date: 29 Jul 2003 16:01:59 -0700
Subject: while (assignment):
References: <slrnbicopb.6gh.sybrenUSE@sybren.thirdtower.com>
Message-ID: <840592e1.0307291501.42b1156e@posting.google.com>

Sybren Stuvel <sybrenUSE at YOURthirdtower.imagination.com> wrote in message news:<slrnbicopb.6gh.sybrenUSE at sybren.thirdtower.com>...
> while info = mydbcursor.fetchone():
> 	print "Information: "+str(info)

Typically this is done by breaking out of the loop:

while True:
    info = mydbcursor.fetchone()
    if not info:
        break
    print "Information: "+str(info)

(at least as far as I know)



From kevin at cazabon.com  Fri Jul 25 18:34:11 2003
From: kevin at cazabon.com (Kevin Cazabon)
Date: 25 Jul 2003 15:34:11 -0700
Subject: Installation Module
References: <mailman.1059145486.983.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <5a4226f0.0307251434.2d5532fc@posting.google.com>

You're probably looking for distutils now.


"Harris, Mark W. (DAY)" <Mark.Harris at standardregister.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.1059145486.983.python-list at python.org>...
> I recently acquired support for some scripts that are installed using an 
> install script which imports the "installutils" module.  I can't seem to 
> find this module anywhere.  Anyone know if this still exists?  Is it 
> deprecated, name changed, replaced by something else.
> 
> --Mark



From alanmk at hotmail.com  Tue Jul 29 10:43:14 2003
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 15:43:14 +0100
Subject: Casting stones (was Re: Debugging Python ?)
References: <mailman.1059409013.10134.python-list@python.org> <ef72fb2b.0307281449.6b144be7@posting.google.com> <3c91a864.0307282013.2acb2d1f@posting.google.com> <84fc4588.0307290453.52671e11@posting.google.com> <bg5v9t$lt$1@panix1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <3F268802.BDB26B67@hotmail.com>

Aahz wrote:

> Top-posting is more annoying IMO.

Aahz,

I know that you champion the cause of stopping people from
top-posting, and I agree that bottom-posting a good thing.

However, there is a down side: it makes it impossible to get
meaningful summaries of a posters posting history on Google Groups.
For example, here is your own history of posts:-

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&q=author:aahz%40panix.com+

As you can see if you view that history, the summaries represented do
not contain what you actually said or wrote: they contain what other
people said, that you replied to. While this is generally not a
problem, you might find occasionally that it will appear, at the
summary level, that you said something that it is the precise opposite
of what you actually think or feel.

I don't have a solution, but I thought I would point out the problem.

regards,

-- 
alan kennedy
-----------------------------------------------------
check http headers here: http://xhaus.com/headers
email alan:              http://xhaus.com/mailto/alan



From bdelmee at advalvas.REMOVEME.be  Sun Jul 13 15:59:51 2003
From: bdelmee at advalvas.REMOVEME.be (Bernard Delmée)
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 21:59:51 +0200
Subject: Can't install csv parser
References: <MPG.197b80c54e88b1489896a6@news.in.comcast.giganews.com>
Message-ID: <3f11ba56$0$6532$afc38c87@sisyphus.news.be.easynet.net>

> I'm hoping someone can help me.  I've downloaded the csv.pyd file from
> http://www.object-craft.com.au/projects/csv/download.html
> and put it into my C:\Python22\DLLs directory.

Mmh...works for me - ActivePython 2.2.2
Are you sure you downloaded the pyd file corresponding to
your python version? Running the MS "depends" utility on
csv.pyd reveals that it only needs python22.dll, msvcrt.dll
and kernel32.dll. Are these all on your PATH?

> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<pyshell#0>", line 1, in ?
>     import csv

What's pyshell? did you try from good ole trusty python.exe
in a DOS box?

Hope this'll help you diagnose,

Bernard.






From cybersamurai at mac.com  Wed Jul 16 13:44:04 2003
From: cybersamurai at mac.com (Luiz Siqueira Neto)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 14:44:04 -0300
Subject: Where is xpath documentatios or tutorials
Message-ID: <200307161444.04428.cybersamurai@mac.com>

I can't find tutorials or documentation to use xpath with Python.

I need read, create, write xml files easy.




From iandjmsmith at aol.com  Thu Jul 24 21:32:25 2003
From: iandjmsmith at aol.com (Ian Smith)
Date: 24 Jul 2003 18:32:25 -0700
Subject: Voting Project Needs Python People
References: <LDVSa.14955$Mc.1126731@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <bfhhgq$5lu$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net> <xqx7k6b36r8.fsf@cola2.ca.boeing.com> <jk_Sa.113364$Io.9707082@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <7x65lv31hf.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <z8%Sa.113480$Io.9712518@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <xqxsmoyitto.fsf@cola2.ca.boeing.com> <3jhTa.115229$Io.9825106@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <bfkch9$is4$1@slb4.atl.mindspring.net> <w2BTa.116465$Io.9943199@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <2dc49b63.0307240824.4e1b2136@posting.google.com>

"Alan Dechert" <adechert at earthlink.net> wrote in message news:<w2BTa.116465$Io.9943199 at newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>...
> "Andrew Dalke" <adalke at mindspring.com> wrote in message
> news:bfkch9$is4$1 at slb4.atl.mindspring.net...
> > Alan Dechert:
> > > catch it.  If one percent of the electronic votes were altered (evenly
> > > distributed), you will find one mismatch for sure after checking only a
> > > dozen or two ballots.
> >
> > Actually, around 70 ballots.
> >
> > The odds of finding one ballot to be wrong is 1%, so there's a 99%
> > chance that it's unaltered.  There's a 0.99*0.99 chance that two are
> > unaltered, and in general a 0.99**n chance that n are unaltered.
> >
> > To get even odds of noticing an error requires
> >
> >   0.99**n == 0.5
> >   --> log(0.99)*n == log(0.5)
> >
> > >>> math.log(0.5) / math.log(0.99)
>  68.967563936528421
> > >>>
> >
> > about 70 verifications.
> >
>  A likely story.  I actually took combinatorics and a class in statistics in
> college.  But that was a long time ago.  Since then, many brain cells have
> died, tragically.
> 
> BTW, do you know about cumulative binomial distribution?  I think we need to
> include a tool like this to give us some "C.L" (confidence level) short of
> verifying that every single paper ballot matches its electronic counterpart.
> 
> http://www.reliasoft.com/newsletter/2q2001/cumulative_binomial.htm
> 
> What I really want is a calculator.  Do you know of a free calculator for
> this?  If not, could you make one? (for free, of course).
> 
> Alan Dechert

There's a lot of assumed knowledge in this discussion. I know nothing
about electronic voting systems, I know almost nothing about Python as
a programming language but I do know how to calculate values
associated with the cumulative binomial distribution. A Javascript
(sorry!) calculator for the binomial distribution amongst others can
be found at http://members.aol.com/iandjmsmith/EXAMPLES.HTM.
Javascript can be converted to Java, C etc quite easily. I would
imagine with my lack of knowledge of Python you'll probably be better
off doing the conversion yourself.

The code is quick and accurate and can handle large sample sizes and
very small probabilities which you probably need. There's even a
calculator for the Hypergeometric distribution should you wish to do
sampling without replacement calculations.


Ian Smith

P.S. the calculation of 70 is fine. If you don't want to calculate
anything much more difficult then you probably don't need a calculator
anyway.



From bgailer at alum.rpi.edu  Mon Jul  7 14:03:54 2003
From: bgailer at alum.rpi.edu (Bob Gailer)
Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 12:03:54 -0600
Subject: A story about Python... sort of
In-Reply-To: <87wueu7bat.fsf@pobox.com>
References: <mailman.1057554011.6652.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20030707120140.025cb7d8@66.28.54.253>

At 01:48 PM 7/7/2003 +0100, John J. Lee wrote:

>"Tony Meyer" <ta-meyer at ihug.co.nz> writes:
>
> > > A chess program
> > > is different from a 3D game in that with a 3D game, you can
> > > stop at some point and say, "ok, this is fast enough." There
>[...]
> > This isn't really true.  Sure you can say that the framerate is fast 
> enough,
> > but when do you stop and say "the graphics look real enough"?  (I'm sure
> > there is a point, but it's a distant point, like 'solving' chess).
>
>No matter how distant, it's nowhere near as far off as 'solving' chess
>(which is no doubt physically impossible, at least with classical
>(Turing machine) computation).

Physically impossible? or impractical. If it can be solved by Turing 
machine computation then it is physically possible, even though it might 
take more time/resources than anyone cares to expend. But remember "When 
Harley Was One" and he invented the G.O.D.?

Bob Gailer
bgailer at alum.rpi.edu
303 442 2625
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From jadestar at idiom.com  Fri Jul 18 16:50:10 2003
From: jadestar at idiom.com (James T. Dennis)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 20:50:10 -0000
Subject: IMAP examples
References: <3f15cf46$0$45389$1b62eedf@news.wanadoo.nl> <cb035744.0307162203.6b058ee1@posting.google.com> <mailman.1058451388.5767.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1058561410.563105@smirk>

Sean 'Shaleh' Perry <shalehperry at comcast.net> wrote:

>> If my english was better I would love to help improve the python
>> documentation, most modules in the standard libraries lack good
>> examples how to *use* them with just a simple description.  And a
>> short motivation for the design of a module if possible like "just
>> copied the C API" or "Because of efficiency ..." or "We use a class
>> framework here because ...".  A gigantic task.  The PSL book by effbot
>> is great but it's a book.  And it needs a new version.

> part of the reason why the docs are not but so great is that most of the 
> library is Python code which means any questions can be answered by reading 
> the source.  I find myself doing this quite often.

 <flame>That's BS!</flame>

 As a dabbler in programming I have to say that poor documentation is not
 excused by the availability of sources.  If the sources are that 
 informative than relevant portions should be pasted into the docs
 (or, better, marked up in some way that a doc generator and extract
 them into the officials docs).

 If the docs need to refer to the sources so often, perhaps we should
 re-write the docs so that every page has hyperlink references to the 
 relevant source modules.  Making someone manually hunt down information 
 from alternative sources is a great way to frustrate them!

> Many modules have a little blurb at the top that gives an example of their 
> usage.

 Sounds like a job for doc strings.  Moreover it sounds like a job
 for an automated docstring processing (http://docutils.sourceforge.net/ 
 perhaps?)

> from imaplib.py:

>    Instantiate with: IMAP4([host[, port]])

>            host - host's name (default: localhost);
>            port - port number (default: standard IMAP4 port).

>    All IMAP4rev1 commands are supported by methods of the same
>    name (in lower-case).

 More importantly this module *does* give a 10 line code example: 

   http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/imap4-example.html

 It would be nice if it also explained some of the magic numbers 
 and strings in comments or in some text around the example: 

	Why data[0]
	Why M.search(None, 'ALL')
	and why '(RFC822)' as the 2nd arg in the M.fetch()

 Okay, now I go back to another page and read about the .search() and
 .fetch() methods.  Hmmm, .fetch() lists UID and BODY, no reference to 
 RFC822 and not hint as to where I'd find any other valid strings here;
 I guess I have to go read the IMAP RFCs, where are those?  Ooops, another
 trip to Google!

 <flame mode="rant" context="off">Google would be so necessary if 
 HTML authors would link to other relevant sources!</flame>

 If we expect people to read the RFCs in order to use the bloody module
 than we ought to at least provide the link to the RFC!  (Putting a copy
 on our own servers to ensure a stable URL is Okay).

 The documentation of the .search() method also neglects to make any
 mention of 'ALL' though we might expect that to be the MOST COMMON 
 CRITERIUM!  (at least for someone who's just trying to learn the
 module!)

 I'm only picking on this particular page because you brought it up.
 Actually it's one of the better pages because it does include an 
 example.  The pty module is one of the worst.  Pipe in if you were
 able to use the pty module just from the docs!

 Python includes the broadest wealth of modules I've never seen in a 
 programming language.  Docstrings are a stroke of pure genius.  The
 interpreter's readline and rlcompleter support is wonderful for beginners
 and dabblers --- and rlcompleter2 is EVEN BETTER (Guido --- please 
 merge that! :) ).  The docs are Okay --- but could be ALOT better.

 I'd love to see a way for members of the community (even duffers and dabblers 
 like me) to submit doc enhancement suggestions and requests directly through
 the online HTML documentation (similar to the PHP system at: 
 http://www.php.net/docs.php).  Of course more well-known, trusted members
 of the community should have the power to editing, revise, even throw out
 comments. 

 One danger I see in __doc__ is the various ways in which they are being
 overloaded.  doctest seems reasonable; a small sample usage that also 
 serves as an automated test suite.  (Yes, I have read the little Soapbox
 note at: http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/node130.html) However 
 some of the programming by contract (http://www.wayforward.net/pycontract/ ) 
 starts to worry me.  

 How will doctest and pycontract play together?  How will docutils
 handle the results?  What will be the next clever uses of __doc__
 members?  How will it mesh with all the other uses?  It sounds
 like one might very reasonably argue that these other uses should
 have their own standards (or conventions) with their own namespaces:
 __testsuite__ and __contract__ (or __pre-condition__, __post-condition__,
 and __invariants__), for example.

 (Even that use is *almost* documentation so I can stretch a little to 
 see it --- and it is a nice hack.  However, if something like pycontract 
 is ever accepted into the standard libraries, I'd suggest it be given
 it's own __ namespace) 




From http  Fri Jul 11 01:40:12 2003
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 10 Jul 2003 22:40:12 -0700
Subject: Securing 'pickle'
References: <pan.2003.07.11.01.20.47.998070@127.0.0.1> <mailman.1057889236.17205.python-list@python.org> <7xu19t21ap.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <m3el0xwsgo.fsf@ferret.object-craft.com.au>
Message-ID: <7xy8z5ei4j.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Dave Cole <djc at object-craft.com.au> writes:
> I have been googling for information on the "appending" attack against
> md5 and cannot find anything that clearly describes it.  Do you have
> any links handy?

I think RFC 2104 (the HMAC spec) might describe it.  Basically, think
about how md5 works.  You load the md5 context with the secret key
(say 20 bytes) then your data (say 20 bytes), then some padding to
fill the 64 byte context, and run the compression function:

  md5_compress(key + data + 24 bytes of padding)

Call the 24 padding bytes P.  They are just 16 0's plus an 8 byte
length, iirc.

The hash output is just the md5 chaining variables after running the
compression function.

Now look at the 100 byte string 

  E = your data + P (same as above) + 36 bytes of evil stuff

Even without knowing your secret key, if the attacker knows your data
(which may not be secret), and md5(key+data) (which you've included in
the cookie), he can compute the signature of E.  It's just the result
of running the compression function on his evil stuff plus appropriate
additional padding, with the chaining variables set to the original
md5 hash that you already sent him.

This is not really a failure of md5, which is supposed to be a message
digest algorithm, not a MAC.  Rather, the authentication fails because
md5 is being used in a way it was not intended to be used.

The solution is to use HMAC.  See RFC 2104 for details.



From dhostetler at sopris.net  Tue Jul  8 15:01:55 2003
From: dhostetler at sopris.net (.d.hos)
Date: 8 Jul 2003 12:01:55 -0700
Subject: parsing flat file to mssql (odbc)
Message-ID: <8db020b9.0307081101.23325bd@posting.google.com>

ok, fairly new to python, relatively familiar w/ ms-sql. here's my
issue:

my .py script parses the contents of a (tab delim.) flat file, then
attempts to insert the information into the db. I've been fighting
this for a day or so, and i'm stuck on the db insertion...

basically the script uses .readlines() to capture the flat file
contents, and stick the *record* into a container list...

something to the effect of:
for l in lines:
    fields = string.split(l,'\t')
    dic.append(fields)

then, I just want to loop over that container list and do a simple
INSERT statement. I've tried using the .executemany() method to no
avail. .execute(sql, tuple) seems to be working better.

sql statement (lots of columns):
---------------------------------
INSERT INTO tbl_pyDev
(COURSE_SECTIONS_0,Term_1,Synonym_2,Section_Name_3,Location_4,Bldg_5,Room_6,
Days_7,Start_Time_8,End_Time_9,Start_Date_10,End_Date_11,Add_Start_Date_12,
Drop_Start_Date_13,Add_End_Date_14,Faculty_15,Short_Title_16,Prerequisite_17,
Required_18,Coreq_Noncourses_19,Course_20,Cred_Type_21,SEC_CRS_DESC_22,
Long_Title_23,Depts_24,Fee_25,Meeting_Days_26,Printed_Comments_27,Subject_28,
Supplies_29,Transfer_Status_30,Course_Cost_31,Status_32,Capacity_33,
COURSE_SECTIONS_34,Corequisite_Sections_35,Section_36,Min_Cred_37,
Instr_Methods_38,SEC_FACULTY_FIRST_NAME_39,SEC_FACULTY_LAST_NAME_40,
Refund_41,CoReq_Name_42,Drop_End_43)  values (?,?,?,?,?,?,?,?,?,?,?,?,
?,?,?,?,?,?,?,?,?,?,?,?,?,?,?,?,?,?,?,?,?,?,?,?,?,?,?,?,?,?,?,?)

ugly eh?
well, here's an example of what I'm trying to feed this beast:
(the first row of data is col. headers, and thy insert fine. This is
actually the chunk of data the script is choking on (dic[1]))
---------------------------------------------------------------
('2475', '03/FA', '25000', 'AAA-010-AS01', 'AS', 'AS', '116', 'TTH',
'05:00PM', '06:50PM', '09/09/03', '10/02/03', '09/09/03', '09/09/03',
'09/26/03', 'Rameil, Lesley J', 'Aca Achieve Pre-College', '', '', '',
'1139', 'UG', "Meets the requirements of the Comprehensive  Student
AssessmentSystem and the Secretary's Commission on Achieving Necessary
Sklls, as well as work and postsecondary enrollment skills.  Enabes
the student to review and improve in reading, writing, matheatics,
science, and social studies in preparation for the GED tst.",
'Academic Achievement in Pre-College', 'AAA', '', 'T', '', 'AAA', '',
'NT', '', 'A', '35', '2475', '', 'AS01', '1.00', 'LEC', 'Lesley',
'Rameil', '09/12/03', '', '09/26/03')

I'm executing in this sort of fashion:
--------------------------------------
for data in dic:
     cursor.execute(insertSQL, tuple(data))

Error:
---------------------------------------
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "C:\Python22\parse_flat.py", line 101, in ?
    cursor.execute(insertSQL, tuple(data))
dbi.internal-error: [Microsoft][ODBC SQL Server Driver][SQL
Server]Location:	 record.cpp:2253
Expression:	 m_futureSize == 0 || rec.Size () == m_futureSize
SPID:		 58
Process ID:	 1136 in EXEC



so, if the column headers make into the db, it has to be the
formatting of the following data?!?! single quotes?!?! i'm fried on
this...if anyone has any input I would be very grateful.

thanks - d



From ageron at HOHOHOHOvideotron.ca  Wed Jul  2 09:21:45 2003
From: ageron at HOHOHOHOvideotron.ca (Aurélien Géron)
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 15:21:45 +0200
Subject: When is unit-testing bad? [was: Re: does lack of type...]
References: <3EEE1210.3004AB45@engcorp.com> <878ys06tcv.fsf_-_@pobox.com> <vf11j7l3f0ku52@news.supernews.com> <87of0pno5s.fsf@titan.staselog.com> <vg40uajdqo3ac4@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <bdunoh$1pms$1@biggoron.nerim.net>

> In article <87of0pno5s.fsf at titan.staselog.com>,
> Edvard Majakari  <edvard+web at majakari.net> wrote:
> >
> >I'm rather interested in (and fond of) unit testing as well as TDD, so I
> >though to share my opinions. I once discussed TDD with my friend in here,
> >and the common agreement seemed to be that TDD is not a silver bullet -
> >often there are types of computational modules that are very hard to unit
> >test, eg. think of graphical user interfaces or complex systems, where
> >forking or threading is concerned.
> .
> .
> .
> While we're all being rational enough to look at bundles of
> costs and benefits, this observation hints at a different
> insight:  that it's possible to *design* for testability.
>
> Yes, GUIs and forking and threading are hard to test.  SO
> DON'T DO THEM.  Or, as I prefer, adopt models of GUI and
> concurrency development that lend themselves to testing.
>
> At this point, I should explain what I mean by that.  I
> haven't yet figured out how to say it in less than a book;
> therefore, all I can contribute for today are the slogans
> above.
>
> If you're in a situation where unit-testing is bad, you're
> probably in a bad situation.  Change your situation.
> -- 
>
> Cameron Laird <Cameron at Lairds.com>
> Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
> Personal:  http://phaseit.net/claird/home.html

I think I sort of understand what you mean, Cameron, but IMHO it looks to me
that you are trying to fit everything into one vision ("Everything looks
like a nail when you have a hammer").

There are things that are hard to unit test (I'm talking about automated
unit tests here) and which you just can't do without in some projects.  For
instance, the database!  I worked in a couple of projects with automatic
unit tests for the DB related components, and having lived through it, I'm
not sure that it was worth it at all!  Manual unit tests would have made
much more sense.  The same goes for GUIs.  I'd be interested to know about
projects where they automate unit tests for GUIs, but I suspect it would be
just as cumbersome. And live without threads?  A lot of projects would be
better off not using them, I agree with that, but some projects just can't
do without them!  Web sites are also horrible to automatically unit test.
In all those cases, I much prefer having a human being go out and do the
unit tests manually.

I guess my point is that though you may be right in some specific contexts,
I don't think you can generalize.  That's IMHO of course.

I may not have understood exactly what you meant, though.  You may want to
send me a copy of your book?  ;-)

Aur?lien





From posselt at hotmail.com  Mon Jul 14 08:10:14 2003
From: posselt at hotmail.com (Peter Vestergaard)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 14:10:14 +0200
Subject: command prompt change dir
References: <belm3i$22ek$1@news.cybercity.dk> <200307110928.02474.mfranklin1@gatwick.westerngeco.slb.com> <mailman.1058127209.14405.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <beu6k0$11jp$1@news.cybercity.dk>

Hi
The idea of a temporary file seemed a bit ugly to me, but at second thought
it ain't that bad, and now I have made a solution with 1 bat file (call
python, call temp.bat, del temp.bat), 1 python file and 1 temporary bat
file, which works exactly as I wanted it.
Thanks for all the suggestions!
/Peter

"I?igo Serna" <inigoserna at terra.es> wrote in message
news:mailman.1058127209.14405.python-list at python.org...





From jjl at pobox.com  Sat Jul 26 16:25:21 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 26 Jul 2003 21:25:21 +0100
Subject: autoconf-style checking for installed libs with DistUtils
References: <60uav-or3.ln1@nb2.stroeder.com>
Message-ID: <87znj12fym.fsf@pobox.com>

Michael Str?der <michael at stroeder.com> writes:

> Is it possible to probe for installed libs with DistUtils?
> 
> I'd like to automatically search for optional libs and adjust C
> compiler switchers before starting the build of a the extension module.

Unfortunately, great though it is, distutils can be a bit hard to
customize.  I remember having trouble getting extra gcc switches in,
and getting data put where it needed to go.  Generally, you do
whatever you like before calling setup(), to figure out library paths
and such.  I haven't heard of any autoconf-like facilities having been
added.  If you have a particular problem, try asking about that.

I wonder if SCons (pure-Python) could help in some way with this kind
of stuff?  It *does* have some (newish, I think) autoconfiguration
code, but I don't know if it has any distutils support.


John



From duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk  Thu Jul 24 12:21:43 2003
From: duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk (Duncan Booth)
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 16:21:43 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Python scripting with Paint Shop Pro 8.0
References: <kl3lhvgh5iillo5g9jvff92qkc8i2022nm@4ax.com> <mailman.1058775152.5377.python-list@python.org> <rajnhv0g0d21okj8uhebsakehgm9i6slvh@4ax.com> <mailman.1058790515.18332.python-list@python.org> <bupvhv4sgqtqlhlpvb8m05ksei86oke79u@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <Xns93C2B04C1DD91duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

Marc Wilson <marc at cleopatra.co.uk> wrote in
news:bupvhv4sgqtqlhlpvb8m05ksei86oke79u at 4ax.com: 

> Oh, and- is there a way to overwrite text onto an image?  The site is
> a house-sales site, and we want to overwrite "SOLD" across the
> thumbnail once a property is sold.  It looks like I can do this with
> the ImageDraw module, but I can't see how to replicate what we do now
> with Image Robot, which is to write "SOLD" across the image diagonally
> (using the Add Watermark feature).  Any ideas?

How about this:

from PIL import Image, ImageFont, ImageDraw, ImageChops

im = Image.open("test.jpg")
im.thumbnail((128, 128), Image.ANTIALIAS)

font = ImageFont.truetype("arial.ttf", 30)

def AddOverlay(im, origin, text, angle=-45):
    # Create an overlay with white text and subtract it from the image.
    # This effectively blacks out the area to be overlaid.
    overlay = Image.new(im.mode, im.size)
    draw = ImageDraw.Draw(overlay)
    draw.text(origin, text, (255, 255, 255), font=font)
    overlay = overlay.rotate(angle)
    stamped = ImageChops.subtract(im, overlay, 1, 0)


    # Now create a red overlay and add it to the subtracted image
    overlay = Image.new(im.mode, im.size)
    draw = ImageDraw.Draw(overlay)
    draw.text(origin, text, (255, 0, 0), font=font)
    overlay = overlay.rotate(angle)
    stamped = ImageChops.add(stamped, overlay, 1, 0)
    return stamped

stamped = AddOverlay(im, (10, 50), "SOLD!")
stamped.show()


-- 
Duncan Booth                                             duncan at rcp.co.uk
int month(char *p){return(124864/((p[0]+p[1]-p[2]&0x1f)+1)%12)["\5\x8\3"
"\6\7\xb\1\x9\xa\2\0\4"];} // Who said my code was obscure?



From dtolton at yahoo.com  Tue Jul  8 13:21:54 2003
From: dtolton at yahoo.com (Doug Tolton)
Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 17:21:54 GMT
Subject: Embedding as scripting engine
References: <df361dd5.0307080250.2c76da80@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <i8vlgvkcic11n5595s7eblaa3seo7hktk6@4ax.com>

There are a couple of sources of information.  Mark Hammond & Andy
Robinsons book "Python Programming on Win32" has an excelent section
on Dynamic Code Evaluation.  This is in Chapter 8 Adding a Macro
language.

They also mention that there is a com server included with PythonWin
that is located at Python\win32com\servers\interp.py.  This is a
python interpreter that can be bolted onto any com server.

If you are using a unix platform, you obviously won't be able to use
com, but the basic concepts will still be the same.  You will need to
use Eval and Exec for dynamic code evaluation.

Good Luck

Doug Tolton

On 8 Jul 2003 03:50:55 -0700, theincredibleulk at hotmail.com (?lfur
Kristj?nsson) wrote:

>Python... a great language, no doubt. And the abillity to be able to
>extend it with C/C++ code, fantastic. But has anybody been able to
>successfully embed Python in their application to use it as a
>scripting language of sorts?
>
>I am in the process of writing a game and from the documentation and
>word of mouth gathered that Python would be just the thing for the
>scripting part. And sure enough it is easy enough to run Python code
>from C/C++. However, in order to be make it do something actually
>useful for my game it would be handy to be able to pass in anything
>besides the basic data types (strings, numerics) such as either an
>instance of or a pointer to a gameobject. What I want to be able to do
>is something like this:
>
>GameObject go;
>
>Py_Initialize()
>...
>PyObject* po = GameObject2PyObject(go);
>...
>result = PyObject_CallObject(func, "O", po );
>...
>go = PyObject2GameObject(result);
>
>Theres alot of documentation and discussion out there that suggests
>that this should be possible but noone seems to tell you how it's
>actually done. Am I just missing something blatantly obvious?
>
>Thanks
>//ulk




From skip at pobox.com  Wed Jul 30 15:35:02 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 14:35:02 -0500
Subject: Ver 2.3 install over 2.2?
In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20030730112144.02c30b88@66.28.54.253>
References: <5.2.1.1.0.20030730112144.02c30b88@66.28.54.253>
Message-ID: <16168.7654.115889.178699@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    Bob> Is it OK to install 2.3 in my python22 folder, thus preserving all
    Bob> the libs and packages already installed, or do I have to reinstall
    Bob> all of them, or what?

I wouldn't do that.  Some files may have disappeared between 2.2 and 2.3, in
which case they would still be left in the python22 tree waiting to pounce
upon some unsuspecting program.  You're really going to be better off
installing 2.3 alongside 2.2 then reinstalling packages with the new
version.  Once you're satisfied that 2.3 is working for you, go ahead and
uninstall 2.2.

Skip




From printers at sendme.cz  Mon Jul  7 16:12:02 2003
From: printers at sendme.cz (A)
Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 22:12:02 +0200
Subject: Is there any solution  in PYTHON?
Message-ID: <3F09F032.20821.AC27E76@localhost>

Hi,
I have a program that downloads some web pages. Sometimes there is a poor internet 
connection and my script freezes( hangs) and does not download ALL pages.
Is there any solution how to test if the program works and if not re-start it from the point 
where it stopped?
Or simply how to download ALL pages eventhough there is a timeout connection( can be 
of any value)?
Thanks for help
Ladislav






From tim at zope.com  Tue Jul  8 11:54:52 2003
From: tim at zope.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 11:54:52 -0400
Subject: __eq__ and __ne__
In-Reply-To: <3F0AE020.7040701@zope.com>
Message-ID: <BIEJKCLHCIOIHAGOKOLHAEFCGDAA.tim@zope.com>

[Shane Hathaway]
> I was surprised by the following behavior.  Apparently, the "!="
> operator does not fall back to using "not __eq__()".

That's true -- there are no magical equivalences among the six rich
comparison operators.

> I tested this with Python 2.1, 2.2, and 2.2 with new-style classes and
> got the same results in every case.

Whew!  I was afraid a bug may have slipped in <wink>.

>  >>> class foo:
> ...     def __eq__(self, other):
> ...         return (other.__class__ is self.__class__
> ...                 and other.__dict__ == self.__dict__) ...
>  >>> foo() == foo()
> 1
>  >>> foo() != foo()
> 1
>
> I would expect the second test to yield "0".  To compensate, I've
> started adding the following boilerplate code to all classes that
> define only __eq__:
>
> def __ne__(self, other):
>      return not self.__eq__(other)

That's appropriate if that's what you what "!=" to mean.

> Does this surprise anyone else?  I have not yet found documentation
> on this.

The language (not library) Ref Man says this (under "Basic Customization"),
and means what it says:

    The correspondence between operator symbols and method names is as
    follows:  x<y calls x.__lt__(y), x<=y calls x.__le__(y), x==y
    calls x.__eq__(y), x!=y and x<>y call x.__ne__(y), x>y calls
    x.__gt__(y), and x>=y calls x.__ge__(y).

In the richcmp PEP:

    http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0207.html

point 3 under "Proposed Resolutions" gives one rationale:

    3 The == and != operators are not assumed to be each other's
      complement (e.g. IEEE 754 floating point numbers do not satisfy
      this).  It is up to the type to implement this if desired.
      Similar for < and >=, or > and <=; there are lots of examples
      where these assumptions aren't true (e.g. tabnanny).

A more involved (and probably more basic) rationale has to do with that the
richcmp operators aren't constrained to return Boolean results; as the PEP
says at its start:

    The main motivation comes from NumPy, whose users agree that A<B
    should return an array of elementwise comparison outcomes;

Since the richcmp operators aren't constrained to return scalars, an attempt
to define one in terms of the others seemed futile.  Instead they're 6
independent methods.





From cartermark46 at ukmail.com  Thu Jul 10 05:42:57 2003
From: cartermark46 at ukmail.com (Mark Carter)
Date: 10 Jul 2003 02:42:57 -0700
Subject: Calling Excel module functions from python [repost]
Message-ID: <d3c9c04.0307100142.a49fd81@posting.google.com>

In Excel, I have a module named modCSV which has a function named
SaveSheet(), which I want to be able to call from python. How do I do
it?

I've opened the workbook containing the module, and executed the code:

from win32com.client import Dispatch
xlApp = Dispatch("Excel.Application")
xlApp.Visible = 1
wb = xlApp.ActiveWorkbook
wbc = wb.VBProject.VBComponents("modCSV")
wbc.SaveSheet()

but I get the error message:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "C:\Documents and Settings\mcarter\My
Documents\cvs-tree\project\2195\code\temp.py", line 17, in ?
    wbc.SaveSheet()
  File "C:\Python22\lib\site-packages\win32com\client\dynamic.py",
line 454, in __getattr__
    raise AttributeError, "%s.%s" % (self._username_, attr)
AttributeError: <unknown>.SaveSheet

It apparently likes the line wbc = ... , but then hates
wbc.SaveSheet(). *Sigh*



From duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk  Wed Jul 23 04:16:41 2003
From: duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk (Duncan Booth)
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 08:16:41 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Python and VS.Net
References: <mailman.1058934395.4215.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Xns93C15CA63FBAduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

"Tim Peters" <tim_one at email.msn.com> wrote in
news:mailman.1058934395.4215.python-list at python.org: 

> [Ravi]
>> Has anyone tried building Python with VC++.NET? Does it work or fail
>> horribly like I think it will.
> 
> Yes, several people have built it that way, and it works fine. 
<snip>
> 
>> My boss seems to think it is good to have programs that are in
>> managed code because it is more 'portable'.  Not that there's another
>> complete .NET runtime besides Microsoft's but he does not understand
>> that. 

Note that Python build using VC++.Net won't be managed code. Its just a 
plain old unmanaged application built with the more recent compiler. Python 
build for the managed code environment would be a whole different kettle of 
fish.

-- 
Duncan Booth                                             duncan at rcp.co.uk
int month(char *p){return(124864/((p[0]+p[1]-p[2]&0x1f)+1)%12)["\5\x8\3"
"\6\7\xb\1\x9\xa\2\0\4"];} // Who said my code was obscure?



From pyguy30 at yahoo.com  Wed Jul 30 18:57:41 2003
From: pyguy30 at yahoo.com (john)
Date: 30 Jul 2003 15:57:41 -0700
Subject: urllib(2) and https blues? try pytunnel for python tunnelling
Message-ID: <mailman.1059606483.12458.clpa-moderators@python.org>

The python libraries like urllib and httplib do not support ssl
through a proxy.
Urllib2 supports http through a proxy or https alone, but not https
through a proxy.

A while ago my wife complained to me that perl had trouble w/https. I
was surprised since perl has a lot of networking libraries. Preferring
python, I took a look a python and found the same problem. Eventually
I figured out what python was missing: tunnelling. Though she may
_coax_ me to port the code to perl, I'm writing it first in my
favorite language.

Pytunnel offers a tunnel that can be used for (among other things)
tunnelling the ssl through a proxy.

I'd be willing to offer suggestions or myself add the necessary code
to urllib2. Anyone know how one goes about doing either?

Your python code does not need to be changed except that the port and
ip are supplied by the tunnel. Pytunnel uses a custom recvall which is
like sendall but for recv. Recvall uses non-blocking sockets,timeouts
and sleeps to attempt to get all of the data. If you have a bad
network connection you'd want to set the timeout to be high. Recvall
will probably be slower than a standard recvall.

The code is rough and needs better error handling, comments and such.
But since I got it working I decided to post it.

You can find it at:

http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/213238
Example of usage:

import pytunnel,httplib

def tunnel_this(ip,port):
   conn = httplib.HTTPSConnection(ip,port=port)
   conn.putrequest('GET', '/')
   conn.endheaders()
   response = conn.getresponse()
   print response.read()

tunnel=pytunnel.build(host='login.yahoo.com',proxy_host='h1',proxy_user='u',proxy_pass='p')
tunnel.run(tunnel_this)




From tim.one at comcast.net  Wed Jul 23 16:24:21 2003
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 16:24:21 -0400
Subject: python assignment
In-Reply-To: <874r1d3avt.fsf@jautero.no-ip.org>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCKEIHEOAB.tim.one@comcast.net>

[Tim]
>> It would be very unusual (because bad design) for the __iadd__
>> method of a mutable type to return a pre-existing object, though.

[Juha Autero]
> I'm confused. I thought that the idea of __iadd__ is that for
> *mutable* types it modifies existing object instead of returning new
> one.

Bjorn added more appropriate words -- it would be bad design for the
__iadd__ method of a mutable type to return a pre-existing object other than
self.

>>> a = [1, 2]
>>> b = [1]
>>> b += [2]

While "a == b" must be true at this point, it would be a nightmare if "a is
b" could be true at this point.  For immutable types it doesn't matter:

>>> a = (1, 2)
>>> b = (1,)
>>> b += (2,)

It so happens that "a is b" is not true at this point under any Python
released so far, but it could be true someday without causing harm.

Sorry for the confusion!





From adechert at earthlink.net  Mon Jul 21 13:48:40 2003
From: adechert at earthlink.net (Alan Dechert)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 17:48:40 GMT
Subject: Python voting demo discussion
References: <KRMSa.112426$Io.9623657@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <bfh8rt$3v$1@slb9.atl.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <YHVSa.14963$Mc.1126081@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>

"Andrew Dalke" <adalke at mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:bfh8rt$3v$1 at slb9.atl.mindspring.net...

> So if you want a demo, or you want to experiment with different
> interfaces, you might consider using Flash or related tools and only
> later, once you're ready for the next development stage, do you
> worry about the actual mplementation language used for deployment.
>
Right.  Thanks.  That's what we'll do.

Alan Dechert





From 2002 at weholt.org  Wed Jul 16 14:33:41 2003
From: 2002 at weholt.org (Thomas Weholt)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 20:33:41 +0200
Subject: Where is xpath documentatios or tutorials
References: <mailman.1058377465.26447.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1UgRa.6621$os2.100125@news2.e.nsc.no>

I don't know if I'm understanding you correctly, but XPath doesn't have that
much with the process of reading or writing xml-files. It's used to
locate/query for sub-elements of a xml-document ( this might also be
slightly incorrect, haven't used XPath that much ). To create a xml-document
you can use plain text files you write your structure to manually or you can
use something like
http://diveintomark.org/archives/2003/07/08/on_simplicity.html. Read the
xml-sig docs available on www.python.org. Search www.xml.com or
www.ibm.com/developers for python and xml and you'll have tons of things you
study.

Hope this helps.

Thomas


"Luiz Siqueira Neto" <cybersamurai at mac.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.1058377465.26447.python-list at python.org...
> I can't find tutorials or documentation to use xpath with Python.
>
> I need read, create, write xml files easy.
>





From zathras at thwackety.com  Wed Jul 23 07:13:10 2003
From: zathras at thwackety.com (Michael Sparks)
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 12:13:10 +0100 (BST)
Subject: needs a logo
In-Reply-To: <7fe97cc4.0307230144.9119f89@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0307231209120.22938-100000@pingu.thwackety.com>

On 23 Jul 2003, Xah Lee wrote:

> it would be good if ..  Python have a decent logo.

And behold a new highly sought after, long awaited, colourful,
graphical and well loved python logo:

+------------------------------------------------------+
|       _                _     _                       |
|   ___| |__  _ __ _   _| |__ | |__   ___ _ __ _   _   |
|  / __| '_ \| '__| | | | '_ \| '_ \ / _ \ '__| | | |  |
|  \__ \ | | | |  | |_| | |_) | |_) |  __/ |  | |_| |  |
|  |___/_| |_|_|   \__,_|_.__/|_.__/ \___|_|   \__, |  |
|                                              |___/   |
+------------------------------------------------------+

... with apologies to those with the Big Red Python book.


Michael.
(Sorry, couldn't resist. I'll get my coat)





From max at cNOvSisiPonAtecMh.com  Wed Jul 23 11:53:45 2003
From: max at cNOvSisiPonAtecMh.com (Max Khesin)
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 15:53:45 GMT
Subject: htaccess & urllib
References: <52yTa.21249$On.2682411@twister.nyc.rr.com> <tnbthvorrrc59nn3689ue741lvtb0horke@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <dcyTa.21383$On.2686195@twister.nyc.rr.com>

thanks!

--
========================================
Max Khesin, software developer -
max at cNvOiSsPiAoMntech.com
[check out our image compression software at www.cvisiontech.com, JBIG2-PDF
compression @
www.cvisiontech.com/cvistapdf.html]


"Rene Pijlman" <reply.in.the.newsgroup at my.address.is.invalid> wrote in
message news:tnbthvorrrc59nn3689ue741lvtb0horke at 4ax.com...
> Max Khesin:
> >Is there a way to access an htaccess-protected directory with urllib,
> >password being known?
>
> .htaccess is not a protection mechanism, but a configuration
> file. If this configuration file specifies HTTP Basic
> Authentication you can use:
>
> "class FancyURLopener(...)
> basic HTTP authentication is performed ...
> Note: When performing basic authentication, a FancyURLopener
> instance calls its prompt_user_passwd() method. The default
> implementation asks the users for the required information on
> the controlling terminal. A subclass may override this method to
> support more appropriate behavior if needed."
> http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/module-urllib.html
>
> --
> Ren? Pijlman





From ed at UDel.Edu  Fri Jul 25 15:44:33 2003
From: ed at UDel.Edu (Ed Phillips)
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 15:44:33 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Beefing up socket.ssl(...)
In-Reply-To: <84e0f331.0307251036.6504b16a@posting.google.com>
References: <ZPaUa.6$gZ.133@news.oracle.com> <84e0f331.0307251036.6504b16a@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.53L.0307251453400.8134@mahler.udel.edu>

>From looking at Modules/socketmodule.c in 2.2.2 and 2.2.3, it appears that
only a tiny bit of support for SSL has been added.  Specifically, unless
I'm misunderstanding the operation of the code, there's no way to verify
the certificate presented by a server.  The code necessary to cause such
verification is pretty straightforward for simple "verify the server
certificate" purposes so I hacked together some changes to 2.2.2
socketmodule.c to verify the certificates (see below).

So now, I can do something like this:

from socket import *

s = socket(AF_INET, SOCK_STREAM)
a = ('www.mycompany.net', 443)
s.connect(a)
v = ssl(s, '', 'mycacerts.pem')

...and the server certificate is verified according to the CA certs stored
in the file.  I'm not sure of the intent of the
SSL_CTX_use_PrivateKey_file() and SSL_CTX_use_certificate_chain_file()
calls in the original socketmodule.c ... they don't seem to do much that
is useful at the Python level AFAICT.  I guess if you were going to use
client certs, and your server requested peer authentication, then it would
somehow use private key file (which I guess would contain the client cert
and the client private key?) to initiate a client-auth process, but in the
normal "I just want to verify the server I'm connecting to has the correct
certificate" context, my version seems to be a sufficient starting point.
I also, I don't understand the motivation behind requiring both the
key_file and cert_file parms.

I'm not very good with Python extension modules yet (or OpenSSL for that
matter), so I have a printf() stuck in there just to get a meaningful
error about the verification process.  This could probably be changed to
mimic what PySSL_SetError(..) does and return an actual error code and
error string tuple, but that's just icing.

Also, I noticed that at line 2736 of socketmodule.c (original 2.2.2
version; line 2741 in the 2.2.3 version) there is a "return NULL;"
statement missing that may need to be fixed.  I don't know what to do with
this info. other than post it to this list...  maybe someone reading this
list will run with it...?

Do others beside me find SSL features lacking in Python?  Do you use some
other module to provide SSL features rather than the basic socket module?

Thanks,

	Ed

Ed Phillips <ed at udel.edu> University of Delaware (302) 831-6082
Systems Programmer III, Network and Systems Services
finger -l ed at polycut.nss.udel.edu for PGP public key

*** Modules/socketmodule.c_orig Thu Jul 24 12:26:16 2003
--- Modules/socketmodule.c      Thu Jul 24 17:08:36 2003
***************
*** 2760,2769 ****
--- 2760,2771 ----
        self->ctx = NULL;
        self->Socket = NULL;

+ /*
        if ((key_file && !cert_file) || (!key_file && cert_file)) {
                errstr = "Both the key & certificate files must be
specified";
                goto fail;
        }
+ */

        self->ctx = SSL_CTX_new(SSLv23_method()); /* Set up context */
        if (self->ctx == NULL) {
***************
*** 2771,2788 ****
                goto fail;
        }

!       if (key_file) {
                if (SSL_CTX_use_PrivateKey_file(self->ctx, key_file,
                                                SSL_FILETYPE_PEM) < 1) {
                        errstr = "SSL_CTX_use_PrivateKey_file error";
                        goto fail;
                }

                if (SSL_CTX_use_certificate_chain_file(self->ctx,
                                                       cert_file) < 1) {
                        errstr = "SSL_CTX_use_certificate_chain_file
error";
                        goto fail;
                }
        }

        SSL_CTX_set_verify(self->ctx,
--- 2773,2799 ----
                goto fail;
        }

!       if (key_file && *key_file) {
                if (SSL_CTX_use_PrivateKey_file(self->ctx, key_file,
                                                SSL_FILETYPE_PEM) < 1) {
                        errstr = "SSL_CTX_use_PrivateKey_file error";
                        goto fail;
                }
+       }

+       if (cert_file && *cert_file) {
+               if (SSL_CTX_load_verify_locations(self->ctx, cert_file,
NULL)
+                       < 1) {
+                       errstr = "SSL_CTX_load_verify_locations error";
+                       goto fail;
+               }
+               /*
                if (SSL_CTX_use_certificate_chain_file(self->ctx,
                                                       cert_file) < 1) {
                        errstr = "SSL_CTX_use_certificate_chain_file
error";
                        goto fail;
                }
+               */
        }

        SSL_CTX_set_verify(self->ctx,
***************
*** 2805,2810 ****
--- 2816,2828 ----
                                  self->server, X509_NAME_MAXLEN);
                X509_NAME_oneline(X509_get_issuer_name(self->server_cert),
                                  self->issuer, X509_NAME_MAXLEN);
+               ret = SSL_get_verify_result(self->ssl);
+               if (ret != X509_V_OK) {
+                       /* errstr = "SSL_get_verify_result error"; */
+                       printf("SSL_get_verify_result returned %d\n",
ret);
+                       PySSL_SetError(self->ssl, ret);
+                       goto fail;
+               }
        }
        self->Socket = Sock;
        Py_INCREF(self->Socket);




From jbar at hosting4u.cz  Thu Jul 10 10:07:04 2003
From: jbar at hosting4u.cz (Jiri Barton)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 16:07:04 +0200
Subject: LOADING DATA INTO ARRAYS
In-Reply-To: <16141.28923.425194.99087@montanaro.dyndns.org>
References: <mailman.1057772594.19921.python-list@python.org> <3f0d55db@shknews01> <16141.28923.425194.99087@montanaro.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <200307101607.04338.jbar@hosting4u.cz>

> line.split() is not line.split(" ").
>
> Skip

You're right! Shame on me, I did not read the manual properly.

Jiri





From mertz at gnosis.cx  Sat Jul 12 17:11:01 2003
From: mertz at gnosis.cx (Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters)
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 17:11:01 -0400
Subject: any such thing as list interleaving?
References: <hat0hv49g0e6bf3770c6df2cukknd5vak2@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <llHE/kKkXYwJ092yn@gnosis.cx>         

Tom Plunket <tomas at fancy.org> wrote previously:
|for entry, index in map(lambda e,i:(e,i),aList,range(len(aList)):
|   # ...

    for index,entry in enumerate(aList):
        #...

Or back in the old days:

    for entry,index in zip(aList,xrange(sys.maxint)):
        #...


--
---[ to our friends at TLAs (spread the word) ]--------------------------
Echelon North Korea Nazi cracking spy smuggle Columbia fissionable Stego
White Water strategic Clinton Delta Force militia TEMPEST Libya Mossad
---[ Postmodern Enterprises <mertz at gnosis.cx> ]--------------------------





From bokr at oz.net  Tue Jul 29 12:19:37 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 29 Jul 2003 16:19:37 GMT
Subject: Seeing next character in an file
References: <CDFUa.42241$wk4.27296@twister.nyroc.rr.com> <pan.2003.07.27.03.01.52.505599@rochester.rr.com> <bg12ih$70l$0@216.39.172.122> <mailman.1059393521.4012.python-list@python.org> <bg3kol$69u$0@216.39.172.122> <mailman.1059466192.27225.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bg66qp$6sj$0@216.39.172.122>

On Tue, 29 Jul 2003 09:05:53 +0100, Richie Hindle <richie at entrian.com> wrote:

>
>[Richie]
>> seek() works perfectly with text-mode files as long as you only seek to
>> places given to you by tell().  So if Keith's peek() function had used
>> tell() and then seek()ed (sought()? 8-) back to that point like his
>> peekline() does, there would be no problem.
>
>[Bengt]
>> Can you cite a C or C++ standard section that guarantees that seek/tell
>> will work that way in text mode? (I'm not saying there isn't one, but
>> I couldn't find one quickly ;-)
>
>ANSI C, ISO/IEC 9899:1990, section 7.9.9.2: "For a text stream, either
>offset shall be zero, or offset shall be a value returned by an earlier
>call to the ftell function on the same stream and whence shall be
>SEEK_SET."
>
Thank you. It makes sense that you could retrieve and set an underlying binary position
and decode forward with arbitrary cooking, so long as that cooking either goes character
by character and leaves the binary position to right after what it has used up, or does
the equivalent by proper binary repositioning if it grabs a chunk and doesn't use all of it
for a given cooking portion, so that the next retrieval (tell) will be valid.

I guess I must have been bitten some time in the foggy past, and never recovered trust.
Now I have enough at least to use it, though I will probably still want to write a little
verification into a unit test if I'm in finicky mode. Thanks again ;-)

BTW, is there an ANSI C spec available free on line (or an older, close-enough draft)?

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From elw at euc.cx  Wed Jul 30 01:49:26 2003
From: elw at euc.cx (Jeffrey P Shell)
Date: 29 Jul 2003 22:49:26 -0700
Subject: Web tool kit : pro - cons ?
References: <3f23003f$0$266$ba620e4c@reader0.news.skynet.be> <3f23034d$0$49103$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl> <3f230835$0$280$ba620e4c@reader0.news.skynet.be> <mailman.1059268366.2051.python-list@python.org> <3f23b02b$0$276$ba620e4c@reader1.news.skynet.be> <mailman.1059332921.14965.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <240b1020.0307292149.2cb95a13@posting.google.com>

David Jeske <jeske at chat.net> wrote in message news:<mailman.1059332921.14965.python-list at python.org>...
> If you are not wedded to Zope for your applications, you may want to
> look at Clearsilver. (http://www.clearsilver.net) It is a very mature
> system which was developed at eGroups.com, and today is in use on
> high-performance sites such as Yahoo! Groups and
> wunderground.com. Clearsilver includes a full CGI kit which handles
> form variables, cookies, etc. It also includes a PythonObject<->RDBMS
> mapping system (MySQL only today, no pgsql yet), and a transparent
> translation string extraction system. It is not a "server environment"
> like Zope, and in fact you can use it inside of your server of choice
> (Apache, Boa, IIS, Zope, etc).
> 
> I find ZPT's model for replacement hard to work with, because it tries
> to fit into the xml document namespace. From the ZPT documentation
> here:
> 
>   http://www.zope.org/Documentation/Books/ZopeBook/current/ZPT.stx
> 
> This example:
> 
>   <title tal:content="here/title">Page Title</title>
> 
> Illustrates how ZPT is making it's "tag" (i.e. tal:content) fit in as
> an attribute defined by a new XML namespace. The problem is, this
> constrains where you can use template commands to construct the
> document. Clearsilver uses a model more like PHP where the tags exist
> as items outside of the XML document parsing. This has the drawback
> that your template document is not a valid XML document, but it has
> the advantage that you can put the tags anywhere. 
> 
> For example, in clearsilver, you can construct URLS using sequences of
> template commands, even looping. Here is a small example (whitespace
> added for readability):
> 
> <a href="/url?
>  <?cs each:p=CGI.Params ?>
>    <?cs var:p.name ?>=<?cs var:p.value ?>&
>  <?cs /each ?>"
> >a_link</a>

I love Zope's page templates.  I do have to admit that I worked at
Zope Corporation since before Zope was Principia, but am now out in
the wild stressful world on my own again.  But I grew to *hate* the
above style of templating, which Zope's older model (DTML) follows. 
I've been using DTML since early 1997 and when web applications were
still fairly simple, I think it was a nice system (DTML was also
simpler then and focused more on being a templating language than on
being a programming language, which is what made DTML particularly
painful on Zope in later years before ZPT).

I work with some very talented designers.  It used to be that they
would give us (the developers) their designs and we'd rip them to
shreds and they could never touch them again.  Because now they were
in little bits and pieces and stuffed full of tags-within-tags, with
silly things like 'standard_html_header' and 'standard_html_footer'
(never really fitting a technical definition of header once complex
designs enter the equation) making it very painful to apply what they
would thing were rudimentary design changes.

Not so with ZPT.  It's not a holy grail, but it's pretty close.  Most
of the time, the designers can tweak the site - even in production -
without upsetting the natural order of things.  Given that they're
full time graphic designers (sortof a 'sibling' company.  they also do
a lot of large volume print material, etc) and not programmers, this
is pretty impressive.  They are smart enough to watch out for the
dynamic parts.  But we've had very few issues since moving to it.

What I personally like about ZPT is the fact that it feels natural
within the HTML/XML environment.  It may have taken some getting used
to initially, but I find it very natural.  And it's extra nice because
I can work in smart text editors like XEmacs or BBEdit, or work in
GoLive (very nice when used with its WebDAV browser) and can view the
whole page - including the 'standard header/footer' (usually supplied
by a standard full page macro, which in itself is very easy to modify
and edit because it's a single full page and not broken up into chunks
like header/footer/sidebar - VERY nice.  My life is so much better for
this fact alone!).  Sometimes adding a dynamic element to a tag from
visual mode means just popping up the quick-tag editor and adding in a
TAL statement.  Close the tag editor, and the page is still intact.

You can even do complex things like the following::

  <tr tal:attributes="class python:test(repeat['item'].even(), 'even',
'odd')">
    ....
  </tr>

and have visual editors, or even helpful hilighting editors (BBEdit,
XEmacs, etc) not be affected by it.  Compared to::

  <tr class="<!--#if even-->even<!--#else-->odd<!--#/if-->">

or this, if you only want the class attribute written on even rows
(and how we come up with the variable 'even' is being left to the
imagination here):

  <tr <!--#if even-->class="even"<!--#/if-->>

most editors just die right here - especially visual ones.  In TAL,
you could do:

  <tr tal:attributes="class python:test(repeat['item'].even(), 'even',
nothing)">

and most editors would be fine.  (Note: 'nothing' is that ZPT
equivalent of 'None'.  The core components of ZPT (TAL, TALES, METAL)
were written as specs first, with the idea/hope that other programming
languages could implement them as well, hence 'nothing'.  'None' could
have been used in its place just as easily in this situation).  Is it
more verbose?  More typing?  At times, yes.  But there's a nice
explicit nature about it, and many old Zoper's have learned the hard
way that explicit is almost always better than implicit (DTML had so
many implicit actions going on that in the end - even after years of
use - there were always new surprises waiting in the wings.  And
Radiohead says it best - 'no alarms and no surprises').

Anyways - this is just my personal experience.  But I find that
(generally) with ZPT, I'm writing better HTML and have a more
maintainable web site.  It's different, but I think it's a good thing.
 I'm happy to get away from Server Side Include and Processing
Instruction style syntaxes.

To get back to your example::
> <a href="/url?
>  <?cs each:p=CGI.Params ?>
>    <?cs var:p.name ?>=<?cs var:p.value ?>&
>  <?cs /each ?>"
> >a_link</a>

ZPT (at least in Zope) has a helpful module called ZTUtils that
contains a lot of nice helper functions for building query strings
(which I'm increasingly convinced should never be constructed by hand
unless absolutely necessary, due to issues with URL and/or HTML
quoting), hidden values, etc.  Assuming that CGI.Params is a
dictionary/mapping, once could do:

<a tal:define="query python:modules['ZTUtils'].make_query(CGI.Params)"
   tal:attributes="href string:/url?${query}"
 >a_link</a>

``make_query`` (which can also use keyword arguments) is extra nice
because it automatically URL quotes all of the values for the query
string.  This is EXTRA EXTRA nice when passing full LDAP distinguished
names in a query string, for example.

> > No.  Each part of the web page will be "boxes".  I would like to be very
> > flexible and display "dynamically" some selected boxes.
> > For example the same page (url) will not display the same boxes if you are
> > administrator, maintener or simple viewer.
> 
> This should be pretty easy in most template systems worth their
> weight. 
> 
> > An another example will be to have possibility to re-use existing boxes.  If
> > I have a boxes displaying the last 5 news from Slashdot, I don't want to
> > re-write it each time I need a new bacground color (for example). My Idea
> > is to use those "boxes" like we use classes : if you need some modification
> > you subclass it on the rest remains the same.
> 
> Clearsilver has a macro definition facility for doing just this. You
> can supply arguments to macros, and even call macros recursively. Here
> is a simple example:
> 
>   <?cs def:makelink(url,title,text) ?>
>    <a href="<?cs var:url ?>"
>       title="<?cs var:title ?>"
>    ><?cs var:text ?></a>
>   <?cs /def ?>
> 
>   <?cs call:makelink("http://www.python.org","Python.org website","Python.org") ?>
> 
> The paramaters can be any expressions, including constructed strings,
> or data from your dynamic CGI. For example:
> 
>   <?cs call:makelink("http://" + CGI.host + "/" + CGI.script,"title","link text") ?>
> 
> As always, there are lots of systems out there, and YMMV.

Macros do make life happy.  :)  Or at least, happier.  ZPT macros
(METAL) do things a little differently, but I think it works out for
the best.  To the best of my knowledge, ZPT compilation/rendering
occurs in two steps - first, macros are expanded (METAL statements are
executed) into the template like they were there in the template all
along, and then all of the TAL statements (including ones that were in
the macros) get executed.  One thing this allows, when used in a
dynamic environment like Zope, is the ability to have the macros be
expanded at edit time (optionally, of course).  When using a full-page
macro, you can add a new ZPT page, fill it in like this::

<html metal:use-macro="here/standard_template.pt/macros/page">
<body>
<div id="main" metal:fill-slot="body">
<h3>The body of my new page template</h3>
</div>
</body>
</html>

Turn on 'expand macros', and the whole macro 'page' defined in the
page template 'standard_template.pt' gets expanded.  Macros define
'slots' which clients of the macros can choose to fill in.  Nicely, if
you don't fill a slot specified by the macro, its defaults are filled
in and you can see where the slots are by looking for the 'metal:slot'
attributes.  The above mentioned macro might contain a slot called
'local_js' and put it on a <script> tag:

<script type="text/javascript" metal:slot="local_js"><!--
// local javascript for this page, if needed
--></script>

You can use it if desired, by changing 'metal:slot' to
'metal:fill-slot' and add Javascript to the head of the page - all
without requiring changing the header or having to have the page
broken up into statements like:

<!--#var early_head-->
<script type="text/javascript" ><!--
// my local javascript
--></script>
<!--#var close_head-->
<!--#var body_header-->
...
...
...

Which I've had to do and maintain so many times.  I'm not sure when it
happened - but at some point, this all got to be unmanageable.  It's
easy for situations like an intranet or basic web application where
you're in control, but when you're on the east coast dealing with a
west coast designer who dramatically changes layout every day - it
does grow untenable.

But I've long been of the personal opinion that HTML and code don't
mix.  I felt that way ever since I started using CGI and wrote my own
little dynamic web system (pummel/pyml/avantpy) in '96 until I got
turned on to Bobo (ancestor and still-the-heart of Zope).  ZPT lets me
see my templates as HTML, but still gives me the programmatic control
I need.  It's better than the old days when I'd look at my templates
and see two conflicting languages that looked alike - an SGML-ish tag
based templating language inside the SGML tag based HTML language. 
For some reason - using basic XML constructs (namespaced attributes)
works so much better (for me) than using one set of tags within
another set of tags.

I think that's all aided by how relatively clean and simple they've
managed to keep the core ZPT languages (TAL, METAL).

But, as always, mileage will definitely vary.

--
Jeffrey P Shell
http://toulouse.amber.org/

"Tied you up, placed in tube"
http://euc.cx/



From ianb at colorstudy.com  Mon Jul 21 05:30:55 2003
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: 21 Jul 2003 04:30:55 -0500
Subject: Python voting demo discussion
In-Reply-To: <KRMSa.112426$Io.9623657@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
References: <KRMSa.112426$Io.9623657@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <1058779855.24478.3073.camel@lothlorien>

On Mon, 2003-07-21 at 02:44, Alan Dechert wrote:
> Ian Bicking and Andrew Dalke did say they thought Python should be fine for
> the demo but I didn't get much detail about why we should prefer it over
> some of the other possibilities:  HTML, XML, Perl, Java, PHP, C, C++, C#, C,
> etc.

Well, all of the complexity of you application lies in rendering and UI
logic -- the underlying logic of doing a vote is rather simple.  It's
highly likely that you will want to change both rendering and UI logic
as you progress on this.  Python is quite appropriate for these sorts of
changes, certainly moreso than C and C++, and arguably C# and Java.

PHP is tied closely to rendering for the web in a client/server
fashion.  While you may wish to do this, you may not, and you don't
really want to tie yourself to that model.

Perl's there's-more-than-one-way-to-do-it motto is a very bad fit for
this program.  You want a program that is auditable, and Perl is poor at
this.

HTML and XML don't really count -- you may wish to use those (or not),
but you'll still need a programming language.

If you want even a nominally Open Source system, C# is out.  Technically
Mono exists, but the only real development environment you'd have is
Windows/Microsoft.  I don't believe there's any Open Source community,
or significant libraries (but that's mostly conjecture). 

With all this, I think you are left with Python, Java, and maybe
Javascript.  Performance is not an issue in this application.  Python is
faster to develop with, and is particularly faster in terms of ramp-up
time (which is what the demo involves).  The major obstacle is
rendering, as I see it.  ReportLab makes rendering the print document
fairly easy, and I'm sure similar Java libraries exists.  

Since you don't seem to want to use normal GUI toolkits (and they don't
seem appropriate), you will be off the beaten track to some degree. 
Pygame offers support, but there's still quite a bit of work involved in
handling it.  On the positive side, you'll have a high amount of
control, as Pygame can take over the screen nicely.  I know very little
about the Java world, so I have no idea what you might use there.

If you use HTML in some fashion (i.e., a browser), you will find
rendering a *lot* easier.  You can get decent control so long as you are
working with just one version of one browser, which is entirely
reasonable.  Some toolkits have HTML rendering widgets -- I have no idea
of their quality or applicability, but it's certainly something worth
investigating.  Otherwise you may want to use Javascript and program the
entire thing that way (possible generating the Javascript at some level
-- something that might be appropriate for Python).  It's a little odd,
and I don't know exactly how to go about it, but I'm pretty sure it is
possible.

There might be ways you can use a library to render to a pixmap, and use
these inside pygame.  But what that library might be, I'm not sure.

  Ian






From martin at v.loewis.de  Thu Jul 10 16:04:17 2003
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-15?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 10 Jul 2003 22:04:17 +0200
Subject: UTF-16-LE and split() under MS-Windows XP
References: <uimgeb.ih5.ln@195.171.216.1> <m33chf327s.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <pb7keb.1ep.ln@195.171.216.1>
Message-ID: <m365maywqm.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

"Colin S. Miller" <colinsm.spam-me-not at picsel.com> writes:

> Is there any reason why readline() isn't supported?

Because it hasn't been implemented. The naive approach of calling the
readline of the underlying stream (as all other codecs do) does not
work for UTF-16.

> AFAIK, the prefered UNICODE standard line endings are 0x2028 (Line
> seperator) 0x2029 (Paragraph seperator) but 0x10 (Line feed) and
> 0x13 (carriage return) are also supported for legacy support.

Add that on top of that. One should support all line breaking
characters for UTF-16, atleast in Universal Newline (U) mode.

> I'm using file.read().splitlines() now, but am slightly worried
> about perfomance/memory when there a few hundered lines.

Feel free to implement and contribute a patch. It has been that way
for some years now, and it likely will stay the same for the coming
years unless somebody contributes a patch.

Regards,
Martin




From gh at ghaering.de  Sun Jul  6 10:19:14 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Sun, 06 Jul 2003 16:19:14 +0200
Subject: vim --> python
In-Reply-To: <e1ddcfb1.0307060045.4520ff29@posting.google.com>
References: <e1ddcfb1.0307060045.4520ff29@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3F082FE2.7@ghaering.de>

Andreas Steffen wrote:
> Hi,
> how can I adress the lines, which I send as input from vim to a python
> script (in python):
> 
> for example - :1,10!python script.py

For this filter, read from sys.stdin and write to sys.stdout. Btw. the 
print statements writes to sys.stdout as well.

> Probably the same problem:
> how can I adress something which is piped into a python script?
> cat text.txt | python script.py

Yup, same problem. Use sys.stdin/sys.stdout.

-- Gerhard




From rshaw2 at midsouth.rr.com  Thu Jul 10 11:07:56 2003
From: rshaw2 at midsouth.rr.com (Richard)
Date: 10 Jul 2003 08:07:56 -0700
Subject: Windows Python 2.3b2 bug? Edit with IDLE
References: <buaPa.26828$FN3.2229822@news.ono.com>
Message-ID: <84e0f331.0307100707.f7f2aba@posting.google.com>

"Bartolom? Sintes Marco" <BartolomeSintes at ono.com> wrote in message news:<buaPa.26828$FN3.2229822 at news.ono.com>...
> Hi,
> I am using Python 2.3b2 in a Windows 98 SE machine. If I right-click a .py
> file, the menu shows an "Edit with IDLE" option, but when I select it no
> IDLE window opens, as Python 2.2.2 did. Is it a known bug, or am I doing
> something wrong?
> Thanks

I had the same problem after installing over 2.3b1, uninstalling
python, deleting the directory (C:\Python23) and reinstalling fixed
the problem, but realize you'll have to reinstall anything that was
installed to the site-packages dir.

Richard



From alanmk at hotmail.com  Thu Jul 10 07:39:36 2003
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 12:39:36 +0100
Subject: Python and freeze (something odd)
References: <b714b8de.0307091146.534dcdd9@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3F0D5078.1CF6F138@hotmail.com>

Aki Niimura wrote:

> I'm trying to "freeze" my script to a single executable file under
> Solaris using freeze. I have done such many times and it worked
> magically (until now).

> When I started the generated executable, I got the following:
>   File "/usr/local/lib/python2.2/email/Generator.py", line 44, in
> _is8bitstring

[Snip]

>     unicode(s, 'us-ascii')
> LookupError: unknown encoding: us-ascii


I think this might be related to a problem that existed in many
embedding situations. Check this bug on sourceforge

[663074]: codec registry and Python embedding problem
https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&aid=663074&group_id=5470&atid=105470

I had a similar problem with mod_python and python 2.2.2. I upgraded
to python 2.2.3, and the problem just went away.

So it's probably worth upgrading to 2.2.3, and see if that fixes the
problem?

HTH,

-- 
alan kennedy
-----------------------------------------------------
check http headers here: http://xhaus.com/headers
email alan:              http://xhaus.com/mailto/alan



From simonb at webone.com.au  Tue Jul  1 15:42:06 2003
From: simonb at webone.com.au (Simon Burton)
Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 05:42:06 +1000
Subject: function overloading
Message-ID: <pan.2003.07.01.19.42.06.202399@webone.com.au>

I just wrote the following rediculous code.
What do people do when they need to overload like this?

Simon.



######################################################
# PIL stuff

class Im:
  def __init__(self,x,xx=None):
    if xx is not None:
      w,h = x,xx
      im = Image.new("I",(w,h))
    elif type(x)==str:
      filename = x
      im = Image.open(filename)
    else:
      im = x
    self.im = im




From Padraig at Linux.ie  Wed Jul  9 10:31:36 2003
From: Padraig at Linux.ie (Padraig at Linux.ie)
Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 15:31:36 +0100
Subject: regexp and filenames
In-Reply-To: <93f5c5e9.0307090615.1c51f5f7@posting.google.com>
References: <befn47$5u4$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <mailman.1057723392.15805.python-list@python.org> <93f5c5e9.0307090615.1c51f5f7@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <EMVOa.22177$pK2.34090@news.indigo.ie>

hokiegal99 wrote:
> mv test1- "test1*"

don't forget to handle the case where test1- already exists.

P?draig.




From mjackson at alumni.caltech.edu  Wed Jul 16 11:37:58 2003
From: mjackson at alumni.caltech.edu (Mark Jackson)
Date: 16 Jul 2003 15:37:58 GMT
Subject: Python Quiz
References: <mailman.1058359706.27031.python-list@python.org> <bf3kb4$2gh$1@news.wrc.xerox.com> <3F156952.AD24AAB8@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <bf3rgm$49f$1@news.wrc.xerox.com>

Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> writes:
> Mark Jackson wrote:
> > 
> > Michael Chermside <mcherm at mcherm.com> writes:
> > > Of course, I'm not suggesting that whitespace is *meaningless* in Python
> > > outside of indentation... Python is much like C (and many, many others) in
> > > that regard. 
> > 
> > Note that Fortran (at least historic Fortran - not sure about those
> > upstart 9x variants) is *not* among the "many, many others."  One can
> > write any of
> > 
> >         DO 10 I = something
> >         DO10I = something
> >         D O 1 0 I = something
> > 
> > and leave it to the compiler to figure out whether you're starting a
> > DO-loop or assigning a value to the variable DO10I.
> 
> If you are saying that you leave it up to the compiler to decide how
> to interpret any of the three above statements, then clearly whitespace
> is *not* meaningless.  It might be compiler-dependent or something,
> but no meaningless.  Unless you are saying that on a given FORTRAN
> compiler, only one possible interpretation of all three statements
> above is possible.  That would be surprising.

You misunderstand, probably because I didn't express myself clearly.
Again from the Sun Fortran Reference Manual, "Special characters used
for punctuation," after the graphic used in the manual for the space
character:  "Ignored in statements, except as part of a character
constant."

Ignored means *ignored*, the three examples given will be parsed
identically and the meaning will be determined using other
information.  I think in this case the nature of "something" should be
determinative, as the syntax for the range and stride of a DO-loop

	start, stop [,stride]

doesn't match any legal expression (which is what would be required if
this were assignment to the variable DO10I.

But it's perfectly legal, if insane, to declare (or, with implicit
typing undefeated, just go ahead and use) a variable named DO10I and
write, say

	DO 10 I = 1.10

because in Fortran whitespace is *not* considered to delimit tokens.

-- 
Mark Jackson - http://www.alumni.caltech.edu/~mjackson
	It is necessary to be slightly underemployed if you want to
	do something significant.	- James D. Watson





From pwmiller1 at adelphia.net  Sun Jul 13 13:44:41 2003
From: pwmiller1 at adelphia.net (Paul Miller)
Date: 13 Jul 2003 10:44:41 -0700
Subject: How to crash Python in 1 easy step (python 2.2.2)
Message-ID: <2e363c08.0307130944.4c470bc3@posting.google.com>

I'm not sure if this is a python bug or a bug in an associated
library, and I'm not even sure how to correctly report it, but here is
  Anytime python is accepting keyboard input, whether it's with
raw_input, or sitting on the command line waiting for the user to type
code, you can crash python by holding ctrl+shift and then pressing
enter.

This is on a RedHat 9.0 system running on an Athlon 600.  Basically
everything about the system is standard except for what's been updated
by RedHat itself.  If anyone who has the time and ability to track
down this bug needs more information, please email me.



From bokr at oz.net  Tue Jul 15 15:04:15 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 15 Jul 2003 19:04:15 GMT
Subject: anything like C++ references?
References: <13t0hvsb7idh0g6ac3upe5k0qd6flc17ah@4ax.com> <c9d82136.0307122236.1b72425e@posting.google.com> <3qf6hvcl1j48rnt3m74av0on4ftvd07upd@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <bf1j7f$aen$0@216.39.172.122>

On Mon, 14 Jul 2003 16:44:09 -0700, Tom Plunket <tomas at fancy.org> wrote:

>Noah wrote:
>
>> As others have explained, you just return the value.
>> It's just a different point of view. Instead of
>>     change (v)
>> you have:
>>     v = change (v)
>
>Ahh, now I remember what I wanted to do, and you're right- it's
>more verbose and didn't really seem to add anything.  I wanted to
>in-place clamp integers in a range, or maybe they were even
>member variables;
>
>def Color:
>   def SomeOperation():
>      # modify self.r, g, b
>      self.r = clamp(self.r, 0, 255)
>      self.g = clamp(self.g, 0, 255)
>      self.b = clamp(self.b, 0, 255)
>
>...that was just more typing than I wanted at that point,
>although I'm sure that the keystrokes I burned were more than
>made up for by Python's allowing me to do:
>
>   def clamp(val, lowVal, highVal):
>      if (lowVal <= val <= highVal):
>         return val
>
Doesn't clamping ususally return the limit values when exceeded?
E.g.,

    def clamp(val, lowVal, highVal): return max(lowVal, min(val, highVal))

Also, if you are dealing with member variables, you can clamp them whenever
they are set (including via __init__ code ;-), e.g., (here I built in the
clamping code and constants, though it might make sense to parameterize the
limits in generating a class or subclass for instances that are all to be
clamped the same):

 >>> class RGB(object):
 ...     def __init__(self, r=0, g=0, b=0): self.r=r; self.g=g; self.b=b
 ...     def __setattr__(self, name, val):
 ...         if name in ('r', 'g', 'b'): object.__setattr__(self, name, max(0, min(val, 255)))
 ...         else: object.__setattr__(self, name, val)
 ...     def __repr__(self): # just so we can see easily
 ...         return '<RGB instance (%s, %s, %s) at 0x%x>' % (self.r, self.g, self.b, id(self))
 ...
 >>> o = RGB(-3,22,512)
 >>> o
 <RGB instance (0, 22, 255) at 0x7d8e10>
 >>> o.g = 256
 >>> o
 <RGB instance (0, 255, 255) at 0x7d8e10>
 >>> o.b = -1
 >>> o
 <RGB instance (0, 255, 0) at 0x7d8e10>
 >>> o.r, o.g, o.b
 (0, 255, 0)
 >>> o.g
 255
 >>> o.other = 'not clamped'
 >>> o
 <RGB instance (0, 255, 0) at 0x7d8e10>
 >>> o.other
 'not clamped'

(Of course, you wouldn't want to use this kind of RGB object to represent pixels
where you had to process a lot of them fast ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From donn at u.washington.edu  Mon Jul 14 15:07:48 2003
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 12:07:48 -0700
Subject: anything like C++ references?
References: <13t0hvsb7idh0g6ac3upe5k0qd6flc17ah@4ax.com> <lq-cnWRG9rRuMIyiXTWJjQ@comcast.com> <b8c3hvsesjoumiboobml3nsnajtha99mp1@4ax.com> <mailman.1058126720.6756.python-list@python.org> <bet17l$gdp$1@panix3.panix.com> <mailman.1058150840.26704.python-list@python.org> <1058154004.286325@yasure> <beus18$59q$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <donn-10BAEA.12074814072003@nntp4.u.washington.edu>

In article <beus18$59q$0 at 216.39.172.122>, bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) 
wrote:
> On Mon, 14 Jul 2003 03:40:05 -0000, "Donn Cave" <donn at drizzle.com> wrote:
...
> Which might turn out to be equivalent to object.__setattr__(obj, 'x', 10)
> or obj.__setattribute__('x', 10) or obj.__class__.__dict__['x'].fset(obj, 10) 
> or ...
> 
> It depends on what you mean by 'targets'. I argued that the three left hand
> expressions all *ultimately* result in some machine level pointer variable 
> being set
> in some object's internal representation to point to the representation of 
> the object
> resulting from evaluating the right hand side, and in that sense all the 
> assignments
> have the same ultimate semantics. Some pointer in some composite object is 
> set to point
> to another object.
>
> Depending on the left hand object actually involved, we use different 
> expressions to
> retrieve the pointer (and often you have a choice, e.g., x.y or 
> x.__dict__['y'] or getattr(x,'y')
> or vars(x).get('y') etc., some of which might not be valid. Even plain x 
> might sometimes be
> retrieved by sys._getframe().f_locals.get('x').

My point really was that we can't express "pointer" or "target" in
Python, so Python can't "retrieve the pointer" from user defined
__setitem__ - it just has to hand it the values and assume that
an assignment will actually happen somewhere.

Not that it's worth making the necessary changes to Python, but it
does seem to me that it would have been more elegant and rigorous
to have indexing and assignment work that way, and it seems to me
that when we can't do it because we can't express "target", that
is a structural weakness in the language.

The Loc class you proposed as a solution doesn't really do that
at all - it's just a round-about way to call __setitem__, for all
I can tell.


> Or you could say the implementation is internal and you have
> to use the right spellings to effect the semantics indirectly.
> I.e., op[i]=newitem spells *p = newitem internally (names obviously not 
> directly related):
> 
> int
> PyList_SetItem(register PyObject *op, register int i,
>                register PyObject *newitem)
> {
>     ...
>     p = ((PyListObject *)op) -> ob_item + i;
>     olditem = *p;
>     *p = newitem;
>     Py_XDECREF(olditem);
>     return 0;
> }

I'm missing something here - this evidently does not apply to user
defined __setitem__?

   Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu



From claird at lairds.com  Sun Jul  6 22:52:51 2003
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 02:52:51 -0000
Subject: Status of Python / Platform-specific support ??
References: <iR1Oa.11255$Hb.198255@news4.e.nsc.no> <beaebg$drg$1@panix2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <vgho43cema01e1@corp.supernews.com>

In article <beaebg$drg$1 at panix2.panix.com>, Aahz <aahz at pythoncraft.com> wrote:
>In article <iR1Oa.11255$Hb.198255 at news4.e.nsc.no>,
>Thomas Weholt <2002 at weholt.org> wrote:
>>
>>I've been using Python on both Windows 2000 and Linux for some time
>>now. On Windows I've used PythonWin as editor, Emacs on Linux. This
>>has been working ok so far. Now as Python will be a part of Mac OS X
>>Panther will this affect Pythons support for platform-specific modules
>>in a big way? I'm not a Mac-expert, but OS X is basically a Unix-clone
>>as base with a Apple-GUI on top, right? So most *nix apps will compile
>>and run nicely on that platform?  With Python as an integrated part of
>>the system, I'd be seriously thinking about changing platform.
>>
>>Can anyone enlighten me as to what the current status is for Python
>>on Mac, as for support, IDEs etc. ? Is Mac shaping up to be the best
>>platform for Python development and python lovers in general, or is Mac
>>just catching up to Linux?
>
>That's tough to answer.  For starters, Python 2.2 is already part of
>10.2, but it's somewhat crippled (no Tkinter, and missing the critical
>bugfixes of 2.2.1 and 2.2.2).  Many Unix apps do compile easily, but
>I've had trouble with a couple that aren't part of the Fink project (xli
>and lrz/lsz).  There are binary installers available for the Mac (see
>the download pages on python.org).
>
>I've been using Python on a Mac for more than a year now, because I
>decided to get an iBook as my laptop, but my primary system is still a
>Linux box, and I'm happier with that.
			.
			.
			.
Me, too.

'Bout two weeks ago, I picked up a PowerBook as my daily
desktop.  There's a LOT I like about it.  I still retreat
to Linux or WinNT for Tkinter work, or the latest Python
builds.  Eventually I'll figure out enough about my new
home to make Tkinter work here, too.

'Figured out a mpack/munpack replacement, Aahz?

Anyway, no, I don't think anyone can imagine MacOS to be
the most natural Python platform, but it's getting closer.
-- 

Cameron Laird <Cameron at Lairds.com>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
Personal:  http://phaseit.net/claird/home.html



From max at alcyone.com  Sun Jul 13 17:10:33 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 14:10:33 -0700
Subject: removing spaces from front and end of filenames
References: <beqdf0$m2q$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <3F10BABB.D548961B@alcyone.com> <93f5c5e9.0307130744.7e9d8377@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3F11CAC9.150B33B9@alcyone.com>

hokiegal99 wrote:

> for root, dirs, files in os.walk('/home/rbt/scripts'):
>      for file in files:
>          fname = (file)
>          fname = fname.strip( )
> print fname
> 
> When I print fname, it prints the filenames w/o spaces (a file named "
> test " looks like "test"), but when I ls the actual files in the
> directory they still contain spaces at both ends. That's what I don't
> understand. It seems that .strip is ready to remove the spaces, but
> that it needs one more step to actually do so. Any ideas?

I'm puzzled as to why you find this result confusing.  You're getting a
list of files, and putting their names (as strings) into a variable. 
You're then stripping the spaces from that variable and printing it. 
That doesn't have any effect on the file, because you're manipulating a
string containing the file_name_, not the file itself.  If you want to
rename the file, you need to do something like

	oldFilename = ...
	newFilename = oldFilename.strip()
	os.rename(oldFilename, newFilename)	

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ Life is a zoo in a jungle.
\__/  Peter de Vries



From stuart at bmsi.com  Mon Jul 14 22:24:14 2003
From: stuart at bmsi.com (Stuart D. Gathman)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 22:24:14 -0400
Subject: ANN: dspam-python-2.6.2-3
References: <pan.2003.07.14.20.47.56.980868.7829@bmsi.com>
Message-ID: <hBJQa.13059$o54.10146@lakeread05>

On Mon, 14 Jul 2003 16:48:07 -0400, Stuart D. Gathman wrote:

> I have created RPMs and a python wrapper for the DSPAM project.

> http://bmsi.com/python/dspam.html

Added separate configure patch for those that don't like Source RPMs.

-- 
	      Stuart D. Gathman <stuart at bmsi.com>
Business Management Systems Inc.  Phone: 703 591-0911 Fax: 703 591-6154
"Confutatis maledictis, flamis acribus addictis" - background song for
a Microsoft sponsored "Where do you want to go from here?" commercial.



From candiazoo at mac.com  Fri Jul 11 23:32:27 2003
From: candiazoo at mac.com (Michael S. Jessop)
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 03:32:27 GMT
Subject: Problem with MySQLdb on Mac OS X...
References: <110720032317344670%candiazoo@mac.com>
Message-ID: <110720032332097185%candiazoo@mac.com>

Oh!  Btw... here is the test script...  The username and password has
been changed to protect the innocent!

import MySQLdb

DB = r"xxxxxx"
USER = r"xxxxxx"
PASSWD = r"xxxxxx"

cnn = MySQLdb.connect(db=DB, user=USER, passwd=PASSWD)
cur = cnn.cursor()
cur.execute("select * from art")
rows = cur.fetchmany()

for row in rows:
        print row

cur.close()
cnn.close()

In article <110720032317344670%candiazoo at mac.com>, Michael S. Jessop
<candiazoo at mac.com> wrote:

> I made modifications to setup.py to set safe threading to NO and also
> to point to the "real" location of the mysql libraries and stuff like
> that.  To test it I wrote a simple script that just tries to connect to
> the database.  It fails.  It also fails interactively.  Here is what I
> am getting...
> 
> [h000a9578d1ca:~] mike% /usr/local/bin/python2.3 foo.py
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "foo.py", line 7, in ?
>     cnn = MySQLdb.connect(db=DB, user=USER, passwd=PASSWD)
>   File
> "/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/lib/python2.3/site-pa
> ckages/MySQLdb/__init__.py", line 63, in Connect
>     return apply(Connection, args, kwargs)
>   File
> "/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/lib/python2.3/site-pa
> ckages/MySQLdb/connections.py", line 116, in __init__
>     self.converter[types.StringType] = self.string_literal
> TypeError: object does not support item assignment
> Segmentation fault
> 
> The download, build and install went fine.  This same code works (well,
> different database name, user and password) on a different machine. 
> The database, username and password are all correct.
> 
> Any thoughts?
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Mike



From spam at magnetic-ink.dk  Sat Jul  5 05:17:50 2003
From: spam at magnetic-ink.dk (Klaus Alexander Seistrup)
Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2003 09:17:50 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Debian /etc/python2.2/site.py lost ?
References: <3f068c06$0$29650$626a54ce@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <3f0697be-bb88f1aa-4640-484f-a5e5-7ad1a5c5e929@news.szn.dk>

Shagshag13 wrote:

> i accidentally delete etc/python2.2/site.py on my debian system
> could some one help me to recreate this file as i didn't know
> what it contains ?

# apt-get --reinstall install python2.2


  // Klaus

-- 
 ><>? 	unselfish actions pay back better



From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Jul  4 08:44:35 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 08:44:35 -0400
Subject: Gathering variable names from within a function.
References: <mailman.1057315927.28411.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3F0576B3.13403AD@engcorp.com>

Xavier wrote:
> 
> I was wondering if there was a way to get a list of all the variables which
> were executed/created/modified within a function?

Have you looked at the "inspect" standard module?



From maxm at mxm.dk  Thu Jul 17 06:02:46 2003
From: maxm at mxm.dk (Max M)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 12:02:46 +0200
Subject: Choosing the right framework
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1058360129.5550.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1058360129.5550.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3f1673cd$0$97214$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>

Carsten Gehling wrote:


> I like the ideas behind Zope. For instance the "long running process"
> feature that improve performance and retain scripts between requests, among
> other things. I do not, however, like the design of the management
> interface, it would not appeal to my customers. I'm not yet knowledgable
> enough about Zope, to know if this can be changed. Anyone who can elaborate?
> (MaxM don't answer "Plone"... ;-)


Have you thought about running Python under .asp ?? I have made a few 
medium sized projects that way, and after aligning my methods to using 
Python in combination with .asp it was quite good.

Another thing. If you find Plone to be too specific, you could just 
plain cmf.

But it is quite easy to rewrite the interface of a Zope product.

Even though Zope and especially Plone are hard to get into they buy you 
a lot of leverage. And you are competing with people who do know Zope/Plone.


regards Max M




From manuelbastioniNOSPAM at tin.it  Fri Jul 25 08:21:55 2003
From: manuelbastioniNOSPAM at tin.it (manuel)
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 12:21:55 GMT
Subject: decimal to binary
Message-ID: <Dh9Ua.13488$Df5.327750@news1.tin.it>

How to convert a decimal to binary ?

thx,

          Manuel





From duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk  Tue Jul 22 04:34:13 2003
From: duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk (Duncan Booth)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 08:34:13 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: feature request: a better str.endswith
References: <2259b0e2.0307180401.5dae02f2@posting.google.com> <mailman.1058530829.7072.python-list@python.org> <3f17f883$0$49107$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl> <2259b0e2.0307190529.57338b3f@posting.google.com> <NpkSa.16049$7O.14695@nwrdny01.gnilink.net> <2259b0e2.0307200721.16ef2ea1@posting.google.com> <45228044.0307210522.1ef95144@posting.google.com> <2259b0e2.0307210918.614892ba@posting.google.com> <bfi4ir$t21$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <Xns93C060AFACE6Cduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) wrote in news:bfi4ir$t21$0 at 216.39.172.122:

> I guess the full set of functions might be
> any_true, any_false, all_true, and all_false.
> 
> or maybe someone can think of better short phrase?
> 

'all_false(...)' is simply 'not any_true(...)'
'any_false(...)' is 'not all_true(...)'

So you could get by with just two of these functions, in which case 
'any_of', and 'all_of' might be suitable names.


-- 
Duncan Booth                                             duncan at rcp.co.uk
int month(char *p){return(124864/((p[0]+p[1]-p[2]&0x1f)+1)%12)["\5\x8\3"
"\6\7\xb\1\x9\xa\2\0\4"];} // Who said my code was obscure?



From manuelbastioniNOSPAM at tin.it  Tue Jul 22 13:35:23 2003
From: manuelbastioniNOSPAM at tin.it (manuel)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 17:35:23 GMT
Subject: Pause in a loop
References: <%W7Ta.10360$t92.299097@news1.tin.it> <bfj8ij$25om$1@biggoron.nerim.net>
Message-ID: <vBeTa.2648$Za4.66038@news2.tin.it>

Thanks, now I try the various soluctions,
and after tell here the result.

THANKS,

         Manuel

The same question is here, but Blender oriented:
http://www.elysiun.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11701&highlight=






From dale at riverhall.NOSPAM.co.uk  Fri Jul  4 10:31:08 2003
From: dale at riverhall.NOSPAM.co.uk (Dale Strickland-Clak)
Date: 04 Jul 2003 14:31:08 GMT
Subject: Server Push
References: <be2che$6ng$1@sparta.btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <Xns93AE9D49E97E1daleriverhallsystems@192.168.8.150>

John Bradbury pushed the bounds of literature with:

> I want to send updates from a long running cgi.  I have tried copying
> perl examples of server push and can not get them to work.
> Does anyone have an idiot proof example of a working server push or
> sending output in chunks in Python?
> Thanks
> John Bradbury
> 
> 
> 

I'm not sure what you mean by 'server push' but if you want to update a 
web page progressively, you have to make sure that your web server isn't 
buffering. I think IIS does buffer by default.

You can then send out incremental updates to the page using print from a 
CGI script. Bear in mind though that the web page must suite this type of 
update. Also, some browsers might not display it correctly until they 
have the </html> tag.


-- 
Dale Strickland-Clark
Riverhall Systems Ltd, www.riverhall.co.uk



From llafba at gmx.net  Mon Jul 21 11:05:55 2003
From: llafba at gmx.net (Tom)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 17:05:55 +0200
Subject: global variable
Message-ID: <bfgvmo$jo7$1@news.uni-kl.de>

Hi,

I have one "master" program which calls a small program. In this small 
program I want to work with a value from the "master" program. But I 
always get this error: NameError: global name 'T' is not defined

How can I define a global variable?

Thanks for your help.
Regards, Tom




From bokr at oz.net  Mon Jul 14 16:51:20 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 14 Jul 2003 20:51:20 GMT
Subject: A few beginning questions
References: <3f129a8a$1@mail.hmgcc.gov.uk> <xqx65m59pei.fsf@cola2.ca.boeing.com>
Message-ID: <bev548$oo3$0@216.39.172.122>

On Mon, 14 Jul 2003 14:03:17 GMT, Harry George <harry.g.george at boeing.com> wrote:

>"richardc" <richardc at hmgcc.gov.uk> writes:
>
>> Ive just started playing with Python and have a couple of questions.
>> 
>> Im looking for an agument parsing library (from the command line), Ive come
>> across optik and argtools.  What other ones are there are any of them any
>> good, is there a 'standard' lib for doing this.
>> 
>> Also how should I '#define' magic numbers in Python.  I spent ages looking
>> around for a 'define' statement or anything that will allow me to create a
>> constant value 'object'.  Am I missing something very obvious ?
>> 
>> Also, what 'IDE/editor' do people recomend for MAC OSX, so far Ive found
>> 'Hydra' to be the best as it works on plain files and has Python syntax
>> highlighting... what else is there and are any of them any good.
>> 
>> Has nobody written an editor/IDE in Python with wxWindows so that it runs on
>> all platforms ?
>> 
>> Many thanks
>> 
>> Rich
>> 
>> 
>
>1. args: I use getopt, which does the job.  The idiom is:
>if __name__ == '__main__':
>    opts,pargs=getopt.getopt(sys.argv[1:],'hvd',
>                 ['help','version','debug',
>                  'bb='])
>    for opt in opts:
>        if opt[0]=='-h' or opt[0]=='--help':
>            print modname+": version="+__version__
>            usage()
>            sys.exit(0)
>        elif opt[0]=='-v' or opt[0]=='--version':
>            print modname+": version="+__version__
>            sys.exit(0)
>        elif opt[0]=='-d' or opt[0]=='--debug':
>            debug_p=1
>        elif opt[0]=='--bb':
>            opt_b=opt[1]
>
You know, I don't know how much that buys vs the simple direct method. I haven't
tried getopt. Is there something I can't easily do with about the same LOC as below?

if __name__ == '__main__':
    import sys
    args = sys.argv[1:]
    while args:
        opt = args.pop(0)
        if opt=='-h' or opt=='--help':
            print modname+": version="+__version__
            usage()
            raise SystemExit(0)
        elif opt=='-v' or opt=='--version':
            print modname+": version="+__version__
            raise SystemExit(0)
        elif opt=='-d' or opt=='--debug':
            debug_p=1
        elif opt=='--bb':
            opt_b= int(args.pop(0)) # note that this way it's also easy to do conversions like int
            if not 0 <= opt_b <3:
                raise ValueError, 'Error: opt_b must be 0, 1, or 2 (easy to validate in context also)'
        else:
            #you can process non-opt args as file names or whatever and continue looping,
            # or you could break here and use the rest of what is in args however you want.
            # or break on an explicit '--' and print arg-error messages otherwise, etc. etc.










>2. #define: Use ALLCAPS.  I put these all in a globals section at the
>    top of the module in the order: docstring, imports, globals,
>    utilities, common functions, classes, "main", and "if
>    __name__=='__main__':"
>
>    Also, if you have global variables, we use leading "g_"
>    (e.g,"g_myglobaldata"), so they are easy to find if encountered in
>    the body of the module.
>
>-- 
>harry.g.george at boeing.com
>6-6M31 Knowledge Management
>Phone: (425) 294-8757

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From m.stenzel at allanime.de  Mon Jul  7 10:06:00 2003
From: m.stenzel at allanime.de (Markus Stenzel)
Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 16:06:00 +0200
Subject: Reverse Engineering of Windows Distribution
Message-ID: <bebuo8$h80$07$1@news.t-online.com>

I have a Python software for Windows, packed into a single exe file and 
accompanied with a few dll and package files.

Is there any way to reverse engineer this packet by extracting the 
source files so they can be used on Linux/Unix? I have checked the exe 
but it seems to be compressed by zlib.

Some people on the mailing lists told my friend it's possible to get the 
code once you can "unpack" the files from the exe.

Anyone?

   Markus




From anthony at interlink.com.au  Wed Jul  2 08:55:29 2003
From: anthony at interlink.com.au (Anthony Baxter)
Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 22:55:29 +1000
Subject: Possible fix for Bug 494589 - os.path.expandvars bug 
In-Reply-To: <KJsMa.363625$3n5.222564@news2.central.cox.net> 
References: <KJsMa.363625$3n5.222564@news2.central.cox.net>  <3F02015F.3000903@dadsetan.com> 
Message-ID: <200307021255.h62CtTGG012178@localhost.localdomain>

>>> "Steve Holden" wrote
> "Behrang Dadsetan" <ben at dadsetan.com> wrote ...
> > Sorry you will be getting no patch from me at the moment
> > since sourceforge's anonymous CVS access does not like me.
> [...]
> 
> If you can figure out everything you wrote about, it can't be *that* hard to
> create a sourceforge account ;-).

I assume he's referring to the Sourceforge pserver access being... ahem... 
well... less than good, of late, rather than being logged in to log a 
bug or patch.

Anthony

-- 
Anthony Baxter     <anthony at interlink.com.au>   
It's never too late to have a happy childhood.





From danb_83 at yahoo.com  Wed Jul 16 01:21:47 2003
From: danb_83 at yahoo.com (Dan Bishop)
Date: 15 Jul 2003 22:21:47 -0700
Subject: Foreign characters
References: <f42f0868.0307151831.7e8944b0@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <ad052e5c.0307152121.4d99d183@posting.google.com>

tsurusennin at softhome.net (Tetsuo) wrote in message news:<f42f0868.0307151831.7e8944b0 at posting.google.com>...
> How do I get Python to work with foreign characters? When I try to
> print them, I get a unicode error (characters not ASCII).

   # -*- coding: latin-1 -*-
   greeting = "?Hola!  ?C?mo est?s?"
   print greeting

Or if you actually need to use Unicode strings:

   unicodeString = "a byte string".decode('encoding')
   print unicodeString.encode('encoding')



From tzot at sil-tec.gr  Tue Jul  8 08:03:01 2003
From: tzot at sil-tec.gr (Christos TZOTZIOY Georgiou)
Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 15:03:01 +0300
Subject: Shared vs static link performance hit --and Windows?
Message-ID: <k7clgvoqjur1f10mosue3os74vv7nd34hi@4ax.com>

Last night I was compiling the latest python snapshot at my home Linux
system (a K6-III @420 --the extra 20 Hz is overclocking :); then I tried
building a shared version of the interpreter.  I did some speed
comparisons, and pystone reported ~6090 pystones for the shared and
~7680 pystones for the (default) static build.

This is quite a difference, and while I do know what impact position
independent code has on libraries, this was the first time I measured a
difference of 25% in performance...

This is not a complaint (I am happy with the static build and its
speed), but it's a question because I know that in Windows the build is
"shared" (there's a python23.dll which is about the same as the .so of
the shared lib), and pystone performance is close to ~6100 pystones.

I might say something stupid since I am not an "expert" on Windows
architectures, but would it be feasible (and useful) to build a static
python.exe on windows?  Or is it that there would be no difference
performance-wise in the final interpreter?

Any replies are welcome.
-- 
TZOTZIOY, I speak England very best,
Microsoft Security Alert: the Matrix began as open source.



From alex.lapp at bpanet.de  Thu Jul 17 06:04:00 2003
From: alex.lapp at bpanet.de (Alex Lapp)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 12:04:00 +0200
Subject: Problems installing cvs / errno?
References: <3F165F85.702@bpanet.de>
Message-ID: <3F167490.5050803@bpanet.de>

Hi again,

i found a solution for my csv problem. There is a freebsd port wich 
installs the module correctly. But now i need a module called PIL. This 
is not available as freebsd port so i hav to install it manually.
After download and doing configure / make in the libImaging directory i 
got a similar error like installing the csv module manually.

(python setup.py build)

-snip-
not copying PIL/XVThumbImagePlugin.py (output up-to-date)
running build_ext
building '_imaging' extension
cc -Os -pipe -mcpu=i686 -march=pentiumpro -D_THREAD_SAFE -fPIC 
-IlibImaging -I/usr/local/include/python2.1 -c _imaging.c -o 
build/temp.freebsd-4.8-RELEASE-i386-2.1/_imaging.o
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "setup.py", line 306, in ?
     ext_modules = MODULES,
   File "/usr/local/lib/python2.1/distutils/core.py", line 138, in setup
     dist.run_commands()
   File "/usr/local/lib/python2.1/distutils/dist.py", line 899, in 
run_commands
     self.run_command(cmd)
   File "/usr/local/lib/python2.1/distutils/dist.py", line 919, in 
run_command
     cmd_obj.run()
   File "/usr/local/lib/python2.1/distutils/command/build.py", line 106, 
in run
     self.run_command(cmd_name)
   File "/usr/local/lib/python2.1/distutils/cmd.py", line 328, in 
run_command
     self.distribution.run_command(command)
   File "/usr/local/lib/python2.1/distutils/dist.py", line 919, in 
run_command
     cmd_obj.run()
   File "/usr/local/lib/python2.1/distutils/command/build_ext.py", line 
256, in run
     self.build_extensions()
   File "/usr/local/lib/python2.1/distutils/command/build_ext.py", line 
383, in build_extensions
     self.build_extension(ext)
   File "/usr/local/lib/python2.1/distutils/command/build_ext.py", line 
457, in build_extension
     extra_postargs=extra_args)
   File "/usr/local/lib/python2.1/distutils/unixccompiler.py", line 150, 
in compile
     self.spawn(self.compiler_so + cc_args +
   File "/usr/local/lib/python2.1/distutils/ccompiler.py", line 826, in 
spawn
     spawn (cmd, verbose=self.verbose, dry_run=self.dry_run)
   File "/usr/local/lib/python2.1/distutils/spawn.py", line 38, in spawn
     _spawn_posix(cmd, search_path, verbose, dry_run)
   File "/usr/local/lib/python2.1/distutils/spawn.py", line 108, in 
_spawn_posix
     exec_fn(cmd[0], cmd)
   File "/usr/local/lib/python2.1/os.py", line 291, in execvp
     _execvpe(file, args)
   File "/usr/local/lib/python2.1/os.py", line 305, in _execvpe
     from errno import ENOENT, ENOTDIR
ImportError: No module named errno
error: command 'cc' failed with exit status 1
-snip-

It seems like i have problems installing python modules generally. Does 
anybody knows this problem?

Thank you,
Alex





From davidcfox at post.harvard.edu  Mon Jul 21 13:27:57 2003
From: davidcfox at post.harvard.edu (David C. Fox)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 17:27:57 GMT
Subject: detecting containers during object introspection
Message-ID: <woVSa.102913$sY2.46301@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net>

Is there a reasonable way to tell whether a variable is a container 
(either a mapping or a sequence) and whether it is a mapping or a 
sequence?  [For background on why I'm asking this question, see the end 
of the message]

isMappingType and isSequenceType in the operator module return true for 
any class instance.  The documentation for those functions says 
(correctly) that there is no general way to tell whether a class 
supports the complete mapping or sequence interfaces, but still, it 
would be nice to be able to tell whether

for elem in x:

would fail or succeed, without relying on something like isinstance(x, 
list), which would fail for a tuple or a UserList, or any other custom 
class.  Is calling iter(x) and catching the possible TypeError the 
closest I can get?  And what would be the closest equivalent for mapping 
types.

Wouldn't it be helpful to have an abstract base class Sequence which 
didn't add any actual attributes or methods, but which someone writing a 
sequence class could include as a base class, as a sort of unenforced 
promise that the sequence operators were supported?

Thanks in advance for any suggestions,
David

---


Why am I asking this question?

I'm trying to write a regression test for a class which pickles 
dictionaries of attributes to store and retrieve instances.  The 
dictionary includes a version number, and the class has a system for 
updating out-of-date instances to the current version.

As part of the test, I need to be able to compare the structure of the 
two dictionaries to see if the developer has modified their structure 
but forgotten to increment the current version.  Values in the 
dictionary may be unknown objects, in which case I just want to compare 
their types.  However, the values may also be sequences or mappings 
themselves, in which case I want to recursively compare their 
elements/values.





From bokr at oz.net  Sat Jul 19 16:01:35 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 19 Jul 2003 20:01:35 GMT
Subject: properties + types, implementing meta-class desciptors elegantly?
References: <mailman.1058532630.7342.python-list@python.org> <bfa97g$s5j$0@216.39.172.122> <2259b0e2.0307190640.56266017@posting.google.com> <mailman.1058629890.30475.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bfc82v$hm8$0@216.39.172.122>

On Sat, 19 Jul 2003 11:49:25 -0400, "Mike C. Fletcher" <mcfletch at rogers.com> wrote:

>Michele Simionato wrote:
>...
>
>>I agree with Bengt, from your traceback it seems you are assigning directly
>>to client.__dict__, but you cannot do that (I think because client.__dict__
>>is a dictproxy object and not a real dictionary). The right way to
>>go is via object.__setattr__ , or type.__setattr__ in the case of
>>metaclasses.
>>
>Try this to see what I'm getting at:
>
> >>> class o(object):
>...     class p( object ):
>...         def __set__( self, client, value, *args, **named ):
>...             print '__set__', self, client, value, args, named
>...             # now what do you do here to set without triggering 
>ourselves
>...             # (without having to code diff versions of the 
>descriptor class
>...             # for each possible type of client object (and for that 
>matter, just
>...             # making it possible for (meta-)types with properties 
>w/out requiring
>...             # e.g. a new dict object in each such serviced type))?.
>...             return object.__setattr__( client, "v", value)
                 client.__dict__['v'] = value
the above line should work for this example, so it must be different from
what you were doing before? Perhaps the client object before was a class?
I guess I'm not getting the big picture yet of your design intent.

Are you trying to make a  base class that has properties that can
set same-named properties in the subclass via attributes
of objects instantiated from the subclass? Or as attributes of the
subclass? Do you need the property ability to munge its arguments dynamically?
Otherwise a plain old attribute assignment to the subclass per se should install
the property for its instances, no?

>...     v = p()
>...
> >>> s = o()
> >>> s.v = 3
>
>You'll notice you go into an infinite loop.  What I'm looking for
For this example that's certainly what you'd expect. 
>(really a thinly veiled attempt to get other people to demand it from 
>Guido so he doesn't think I'm a lone crackpot ;) ) is a function/method 
>that provides the default implementation of the get/set functionality 
>*below* the level of the descriptor hooks, but high enough that it can 
>deal with the differences between classes, types, instances, and 
>instances-with-__slots__ (I realise that last one probably isn't going 
>to work, BTW).
>
>Thought of another way, it's asking for a superclass of descriptors 
>which provides this logic in such a way that, by sub-classing from them, 
>you can readily gain access to this descriptor-building functionality 
>without needing to always use it, and without introducing unwanted 
>restrictions (such as requiring a property-class initialisation).
>
>Thought of another way, it's asking for a further rationalisation of the 
>get/set hooks so that there's a lower level at which you can either 
>insert storage code *or* use the default storage code.
>
More simple examples like the above might help me understand, but I haven't
got the picture yet, I am afraid ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From niessink at serc.nl  Tue Jul 15 10:44:01 2003
From: niessink at serc.nl (Frank Niessink)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 16:44:01 +0200
Subject: focus problem with full-screen in Tkinter
In-Reply-To: <2259b0e2.0307140746.46cf2e8c@posting.google.com>
References: <2259b0e2.0307140746.46cf2e8c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20030715144401.GA1564@obstler>

On Mon Jul 14 11:56:23 2003, Michele Simionato wrote:
> I have a problem with full screen windows in Tkinter.
> Here is a minimal script showing the problem:
> 
> from Tkinter import *
> root=Tk()
> w, h = root.winfo_screenwidth(), root.winfo_screenheight()
> root.geometry("%dx%d+0+0" % (w, h))
> #root.overrideredirect(1)
> root.focus()
> root.bind("<q>",lambda e: root.destroy())
> root.bind("<1>",lambda e: root.destroy())
> root.mainloop()

Both 'q' and mouseclick work for me, both with and without the
comment. 

Python 2.2.3 (#1, Jun 19 2003, 12:10:13) 
[GCC 3.2 20020927 (prerelease)] on cygwin

Cheers, Frank
-- 
It was real. At least, if it wasn't real, it did support them, and as that is
what sofas are supposed to do, this, by any test that mattered, was a real 
sofa.
	-- Douglas Adams, 'Life, the Universe, and Everything'




From postmaster at 127.0.0.1  Wed Jul 16 06:06:37 2003
From: postmaster at 127.0.0.1 (David McNab)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 22:06:37 +1200
Subject: Testers wanted - new Python DHTML framework
Message-ID: <pan.2003.07.16.10.06.37.385678@127.0.0.1>

Hi,

I'm looking for adventurous pre-alpha testers for a DHTML (active website)
framework for Python I've developed.

Name:

 - pyWeb

Features:

 - easy to learn and use

 - compatible with Python 1.5.2 and later (thus able to run on budget
   web hosts which insist on staying with old Pythons)

 - runs purely as CGI (or fastCGI)

 - lets you build your pages with a simple, intuitive and coherent
   document object model (DOM)

 - extremely extensible, lends itself well to templating

 - not a 'code within the html text' type of DHTML framework (like Spyce).
   This one puts the emphasis on generating the HTML with python statements

 - automatic retrieval and dispatch of browser cookies

 - oersistent datastore that is stored on browser as compressed cookes.
   secured via hmac/sha1, can store 10-25k of data on browser. Accessed in
   python code by simply reading and setting attributes of an object

License:

 - GPL

Info, examples, doco, download:

 - http://www.freenet.org.nz/python/pyweb

All feedback gratefully received.

Cheers
David





From bens at replytothegroupplease.com  Wed Jul 30 22:39:50 2003
From: bens at replytothegroupplease.com (Ben S)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 03:39:50 +0100
Subject: time, calendar, datetime, etc
References: <153fa67.0307300326.45a29380@posting.google.com> <mailman.1059593025.652.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bg9v9c$6kt$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk>

Skip Montanaro wrote:
>     kylotan> PS. I use 'time.strptime(myTime, '%a %b %d %H:%M:%S
>     %Y')' as a kylotan> reverse-asctime(), and was surprised that I
>     couldn't find this kylotan> wrapped in a function in any of the
>     modules. Maybe such a kylotan> function would be considered for
> future addition?
>
> Seems simple enough to not be needed.  What makes asctime() all that
> special?

Sorry...I just rechecked the docs and it would appear that this is the
default behaviour of strptime if you omit the format string. Therefore a
new function isn't needed.

--
Ben Sizer
http://pages.eidosnet.co.uk/kylotan





From dave at nullcube.com  Thu Jul 31 22:59:32 2003
From: dave at nullcube.com (Dave Harrison)
Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2003 12:59:32 +1000
Subject: setuid and current paths
Message-ID: <20030801025932.GA25071@dave@alana.ucc.usyd.edu.au>

hi again,

Im clearly a moron, and have solved the problem myself, due to a wish
to avoid dire embarrasment I shall not reveal the stupid mistake I made ;-)

Apologies for the inconvenience
Dave

> hi all,
>
> Im using the setuid-prog.c script to setuid my cgi script.
> The C script is chowned to "myuser" (not root, I dont need root access
> just the access myuser has).
> 
> However when I do this, the path it executes the script from is not
> the same dir as the cgi itself.
>
> My CGI script uses a dir structure within its own dir, but when
> I execute it from another dir (via the setuid script) Im not
> in that dir natively.
> 
> Ive tried chdir without success, and chroot runs me into a permissions
> problem.
> 
> Anyone want to tell me how I _should_ be doing this ?




From amk at amk.ca  Thu Jul 10 15:23:41 2003
From: amk at amk.ca (A.M. Kuchling)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 15:23:41 -0400
Subject: Sample Web application
In-Reply-To: <1057862845.9505.1262.camel@lothlorien>
Message-ID: <040F7757-B30C-11D7-9993-0003931BF218@amk.ca>

On Thursday, July 10, 2003, at 02:47  PM, Ian Bicking wrote:
> These features do make it a little more complicated, but they solve
> particular problems, and reducing duplication would help us all.  All
> three protocols (mod_scgi, mod_skunkweb, and mod_webkit) do almost
> exactly the same thing.  And then there's FastCGI...

... and Zope's old mod_pcgi, and mod_lisp, and doubtless a mod_ruby or 
two; this wheel has been reinvented many, many times.  Someone should 
write a specification for the communication protocol (a protocol 
simpler than FastCGI, which has a specification but is too complicated) 
and then we can all use the same communication protocol.
Neil's spec for SCGI is at http://python.ca/nas/scgi/protocol.txt .

>
>> The Dulcinea package (http://www.mems-exchange.org/software/dulcinea/)
>> includes scripts for running multiple web sites on a machine
 >Which portions are you referring to?  None of the modules you describe
 >in the overview seem to apply.

This is the bin/site script.  See 
http://www.mems-exchange.org/software/dulcinea/doc/site-management.html 
for some documentation.  (But it assumes that everything -- Apache, 
site content, code -- live under /www, and changing that assumption 
would be messy.)

--amk





From staschuk at telusplanet.net  Mon Jul 21 20:42:04 2003
From: staschuk at telusplanet.net (Steven Taschuk)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 18:42:04 -0600
Subject: detecting containers during object introspection
In-Reply-To: <woVSa.102913$sY2.46301@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net>; from davidcfox@post.harvard.edu on Mon, Jul 21, 2003 at 05:27:57PM +0000
References: <woVSa.102913$sY2.46301@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net>
Message-ID: <20030721184204.D188@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>

Quoth David C. Fox:
> Is there a reasonable way to tell whether a variable is a container 
> (either a mapping or a sequence) and whether it is a mapping or a 
> sequence?  [...]

Depends what you mean by "reasonable".

In the usual scenario, there's a specific facility which you want
to make use of, and you can either (a) just try to use it, and
catch the relevant exception (called Easier to Ask Forgiveness
than Permission, or EAFP), or (b) do some kind of check beforehand
for whether the facility exists (called Look Before You Leap, or
LBYL).

Your example of trying iter(foo) and catching the possible
TypeError fits into such approaches.

  [...]
> Wouldn't it be helpful to have an abstract base class Sequence which 
> didn't add any actual attributes or methods, but which someone writing a 
> sequence class could include as a base class, as a sort of unenforced 
> promise that the sequence operators were supported?

Consider a DNS name -> address mapping whose __getitem__ actually
queries the DNS.  (Ignore the fact that this could be better done
with a function -- assume we have a function which expects a
dict-like object and we want to use it on the DNS.)  Such an
object could not reasonably implement __len__.  Should it falsely
imply that it does (by inheriting from an abstract class Mapping)
or falsely imply that it's not a mapping (by not inheriting from
Mapping)?

Such cases -- those in which for conceptual or pragmatic reasons
it is infeasible or undesirable to implement all of an interface
-- are not uncommon.

Also, there's the idea of YAGNI (You Ain't Gonna Need It):
implement just what you discover you actually need, not what you
think you might need in the future.  In particular, when writing a
dict-like object, write just as much of the interface as the
contexts in which you want to use that object require, not more.
Implementing the entire interface just for completeness is
(according to YAGNI) a waste of valuable developer time, until you
discover you really do need the complete interface.  Adherents of
this idea won't like the notion of having to make a promise
(enforced or not) that they've implemented the entire interface.

> Why am I asking this question?
> 
> I'm trying to write a regression test for a class which pickles 
> dictionaries of attributes to store and retrieve instances.  The 
> dictionary includes a version number, and the class has a system for 
> updating out-of-date instances to the current version.
> 
> As part of the test, I need to be able to compare the structure of the 
> two dictionaries to see if the developer has modified their structure 
> but forgotten to increment the current version.  Values in the 
> dictionary may be unknown objects, in which case I just want to compare 
> their types.  However, the values may also be sequences or mappings 
> themselves, in which case I want to recursively compare their 
> elements/values.

Interesting.  So you have an example of a standard dictionary for
a given version number, and you want to compare the structure of
the actual dictionary to the standard example dictionary.  Is that
right?

Are your developers actually using dict-like and list-like objects
instead of real dicts and lists?  If not, isn't the type-check for
unknown objects enough?  (If they do start using work-alikes
instead of the real thing, the test will fail, but YAGNI, right?
You can fix it if it ever happens, at worst by adding support for
the specific kinds of work-alike the developers want to use.  Only
if they want to use a wide variety of work-alikes do you really
need tests for abstract sequenceness and mappingness.)

-- 
Steven Taschuk                            staschuk at telusplanet.net
"Our analysis begins with two outrageous benchmarks."
  -- "Implementation strategies for continuations", Clinger et al.




From sergio.lobo at supportdrive.com  Sat Jul  5 16:06:37 2003
From: sergio.lobo at supportdrive.com (Sergio Lobo)
Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2003 22:06:37 +0200
Subject: Python Open Source Project for Live Support
Message-ID: <be7b7a$rp$1@newsreader1.netway.at>

Hello,

I have developed a simple Online Support System which is running at
www.supportdrive.com. The system is divided in 3 parts:

1- Server - Implemented in Python
2- Client - Delphi 6
3- Web Client - PHP + Javascript

All 3 parts communicate with each other using XML-RPC protocol.

I would like to make this an Open Source Project if I can find some brave
Python souls willing to help me.

I have many ideas for this project. One of them is to create Public Topics.
At this time the system only handles Private Topics. With Public Topics we
could have a page on the main project site with a list of all Public Topics
where at least one support person would be online. This support person could
be any software developer running the project software client and being
online.

As a software developer I had many times make good use of Google.com to find
answer to my questions. However I would love to be able to go to a web site
click on a Topic which I am interested in and have free support from another
fellow developer.

Well, I believe I could talk a lot about those ideas.

Besides the code I already created, this project will count on a dedicated
server, which means, we will be able to run as many daemons as needed.

The ones who are interested in the project, please let me know.

Kind regards,
Sergio Lobo





From wesc at deirdre.org  Sat Jul 19 04:52:56 2003
From: wesc at deirdre.org (Wesley J. Chun)
Date: 19 Jul 2003 01:52:56 -0700
Subject: The definition of an object in Python
References: <94af9c5a.0307130919.1ab63400@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <fcd9edc1.0307190052.3aa75818@posting.google.com>

kak at purdue.edu (Avi Kak) wrote in message news:<94af9c5a.0307130919.1ab63400 at posting.google.com>...
> Hello:
> 
>   Please forgive me if my question is too silly or just not 
>   well-formed.

you're forgiven.  :-)  your question is well-formed *and* not silly.

 
>   Wesley Chun in his book (Core Python Programming) says that 
>   **everything** in Python is an object.  So I became curious
>   about the precise definition of an object in Python.  My
>   curiosity was also driven by Wesley's statement that while
>   every class instance is an object,

this is still true since, as you know, *everything* is an object. :-)


>   not every object is a class instance.

Python's treatment of objects is unique from other languages,
which makes this clause "true."  Python has a defined set of
object types which are NOT classes, general objects such as
integers, floats, strings, lists, dictionaries, files, classes, and
even types are objects.  a class instance is truly only an ob-
ject that has been instantiated from a user-defined class.

prior to Python 2.2, classes were "class" objects and instances
were "instance" objects.  as types and classes are starting to
merge starting in 2.2, classes are now "type" objects, and
instance's "type" is the class they have been instantiated from.

EXAMPLE (old-style classes):

>>> class C: pass
...
>>> c=C()
>>> type(C)
<type 'class'>
>>> type(c)
<type 'instance'>

EXAMPLE (new-style classes):

>>> class myInt(int): pass
... 
>>> i = myInt()
>>> type(i)
<class '__main__.myInt'>
>>> type(myInt)
<type 'type'>

 
>   Wesley says that every Python object must possess the following
>   three characteristics: 1) an identity, which can be retrieved 
>   by the function id(); 2) a type, which can be retrieved by
>   the function type(); and 3) a value.

again, this is also (still) true.  (1) the identity is what makes an
object unique from every other object currently in the interpreter.
some people view this as a "memory address" altho you wouldn't
use it as such since Python handles the memory management 4 u.
you are just guaranteed that any other object in the system will
NOT have the same id.  (2) the type of an object defines what its
characteristics (i.e., what methods and attributes it has, etc.) are,
and (3) the value goes without saying.

 
>   But when I do the following
> 
>       mystring = 'hello'
>       print mystring.id()
>       print mystring.type()
> 
>   Python complains that mystring does not possess the attributes
>   id and type.
> 
>   So now I am confused.  Any help with the resolution of this 
>   issue would be much appreciated.

as others have pointed out, id() and type() are built-in FUNCTIONs
and not general built-in METHODs.  each object type has its own
set of methods, and all behavior of an object and its attributes are
defined by its TYPE.  you can use the dir() built-in function to see
what attributes (data and methods) an object has.

hope this helps!

-wesley

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

"Core Python Programming", Prentice Hall PTR, (c) 2001
    http://starship.python.net/crew/wesc/cpp/

Silicon Valley-San Francisco Bay Area Python Users Group (BayPIGgies)
    http://www.baypiggies.net

wesley.j.chun :: wesc at deirdre.org
cyberweb.consulting :: cyberweb_consulting at yahoo.com
http://roadkill.com/~wesc/cyberweb/

E-Mail using vi(m)/emacs with M$ outlook:
    http://groups.google.com/groups?threadm=fcd9edc1.0208281104.752da4bd%40posting.google.com



From andy47 at halfcooked.com  Tue Jul 29 07:10:37 2003
From: andy47 at halfcooked.com (Andy Todd)
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 12:10:37 +0100
Subject: How to properly package/distribute a pure python module?
In-Reply-To: <5ab0af73.0307281045.6cb13cfe@posting.google.com>
References: <5ab0af73.0307281045.6cb13cfe@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bg5kpo$nq3$1@main.gmane.org>

Matt Shomphe wrote:
> Are there any guidelines for packaging a pure python module? 
> Specifically, say I have a set of 10 functions, all of varying
> behaviors (no unifying theme to bind them together into clear
> subsets), that I would like to make available to others.  What is the
> best structure for the distributed module?  A single file called
> "functions.py" that people can put in "site-packages"[1]?  A
> subdirectory called "MyFunctions" with an "__init__.py" and the
> "functions.py" files[2]?  Or should the functions be broken out into
> individual files[3]?
> 
> I'm sure it depends on some other factorsbut are there general rules
> for constructing a nice, logical package for others to use?
> 
> [1] site-packages/functions.py (from functions import f1)
> [2] site-packages/MyFunctions/functions.py, __init__.py (from
> MyFunctions.functions import f1)
> [3] site-packages/MyFunctions/__init__.py, f1.py, f2.py, f3.py (from
> MyFunctions.f1 import f1)

I'd suggest you look at the distribution utilities for Python;

   http://www.python.org/sigs/distutils-sig/doc/

Specifically the documentation on distrbuting Python modules;

   http://www.python.org/doc/current/dist/

The documentation can be a little confusing at first but stick with it 
and if you have any questions please ask them here or on the 
distutils-sig mailing list.

Regards,
Andy
-- 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 From the desk of Andrew J Todd esq - http://www.halfcooked.com/






From intentionally at blank.co.uk  Tue Jul 15 02:03:11 2003
From: intentionally at blank.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 07:03:11 +0100
Subject: anything like C++ references?
References: <berqqd$ad5$1@panix3.panix.com> <brs2hv8edfv0d1fch9mha8otuulajnkh0g@4ax.com> <bes0ps$l6$1@panix3.panix.com> <qi13hv4s21i8mtr2e600jumm54hqs7tppu@4ax.com> <mailman.1058125699.26133.python-list@python.org> <sag3hv4vf884ed7ouu5cv8ofnopp9j1t12@4ax.com> <f0f51c80.0307132003.264b6894@posting.google.com> <7dc4hvslh7a8fk9p6cvsfqa1c8d44rmmnv@4ax.com> <f0f51c80.0307140649.61cc1fe2@posting.google.com> <41e6hvcl2q5bdjqlp30t1gfq42j2tgo4u4@4ax.com> <bf02d0$ul8$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <qs47hvk7s3m65d2agl4p9ritbjv9pg2cql@4ax.com>

On 15 Jul 2003 05:10:56 GMT, bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) wrote:

>On Tue, 15 Jul 2003 00:22:15 +0100, Stephen Horne <intentionally at blank.co.uk> wrote:
>[...]
>>>> C++ references are tellingly also called self-dereferencing pointers.
>>>> They are not a distinct concept - they are syntactic sugar. I suspect
>>>> they mainly arise out of the modern desire to disguise pointers and
>>>> fantasize that they're not there, though they certainly work very well
>>>> in certain contexts.
>>>
>>>Syntactic sugar or no, they still behave differently than other
>>>datatypes and are therefore not consistent... IMHO.
>>
>>They behave exactly like pointers. You just use different notation to
>>get that behaviour. That is what makes them syntactic sugar.
>>
>BZZT. C++ references do not behave *exactly* like pointers. Try to make one
>point to a different place than it was initialized to point to.

You can't - at least not without very nasty hacks. But that doesn't
necessarily matter.

You could make a very strong case for references being a distinct
datatype from pointers, I'll admit. It depends whether you think of
the notation for operations being an aspect of the data type -
obviously the case in C++ programming, but I was thinking in terms of
mathematical abstract data types at the time.

Just because there is no notation to express an operation, doesn't
necessarily mean that operation doesn't exist ;-)




From grante at visi.com  Mon Jul  7 09:25:46 2003
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 07 Jul 2003 13:25:46 GMT
Subject: RTS/CTS and DTR/DTS control
References: <pan.2003.07.04.19.37.02.310028@kordik.net> <pan.2003.07.04.23.44.30.894302@kordik.net> <3F060F8D.94E47DCD@engcorp.com> <pan.2003.07.05.02.34.17.509445@kordik.net> <3F064661.33614890@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <3f0974da$0$1382$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>

In article <3F064661.33614890 at engcorp.com>, Peter Hansen wrote:

> A quick search again with Google using TIOCMSET and TIOCM_CTS and a bunch
> of others finally led to this, which might be the best yet, and includes
> some constant definitions that might let you get something working, if
> this doesn't directly solve your problem:
> 
> http://sparc.dnsalias.net/Python_stuff/PosixSerial.py

FWIW, I've added a couple minor features to the PosixSerial
module (methods for setting a couple iflag values, getting
rx/tx buffer count, resetting the modems on a board you
probably don't have).  The current version is available at:

  ftp://ftp.visi.com/users/grante/python/PosixSerial.py

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  Where does it go when
                                  at               you flush?
                               visi.com            



From mertz at gnosis.cx  Thu Jul 31 21:42:35 2003
From: mertz at gnosis.cx (Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 21:42:35 -0400
Subject: Python speed vs csharp
References: <rkdc7poiachh.1x4jtxjzaf3zo.dlg@40tude.net>
 <mailman.1059655306.27212.python-list@python.org> <dvWK/kKkXoZM092yn@gnosis.cx>
Message-ID: <LWcK/kKkXUNK092yn@gnosis.cx>         

Richie Hindle <richie at entrian.com> wrote previously:
|Using Psyco dropped from 7.1 seconds to 5.4 - not great, but not bad for
|two lines of additional code:
|    import psyco
|    psyco.bind(erfc)

Try these two lines instead:

    import psyco
    psyco.full()

I tried what Hindle did, intially (actually 'erfcp=psyco.proxy(erfc)'),
and was disappointed by a similarly lackluster improvement (about the
same order--he probably has a faster machine).

Using the call to psyco.full() gives me a much nicer improvement from
18 seconds -> 3.25 seconds.

--
---[ to our friends at TLAs (spread the word) ]--------------------------
Echelon North Korea Nazi cracking spy smuggle Columbia fissionable Stego
White Water strategic Clinton Delta Force militia TEMPEST Libya Mossad
---[ Postmodern Enterprises <mertz at gnosis.cx> ]--------------------------





From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sun Jul 13 21:30:54 2003
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 13 Jul 2003 21:30:54 -0400
Subject: anything like C++ references?
References: <13t0hvsb7idh0g6ac3upe5k0qd6flc17ah@4ax.com> <pan.2003.07.13.10.58.11.376531@127.0.0.1> <lq-cnWRG9rRuMIyiXTWJjQ@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <bet14e$g05$1@panix3.panix.com>

In article <lq-cnWRG9rRuMIyiXTWJjQ at comcast.com>,
Terry Reedy <tjreedy at udel.edu> wrote:
>
>In Python, most builtin types are immutable.  The two mutable builtin
>types are lists and dicts.  Instances of user-defined classes are also
>mutable by default.

Actually, files are mutable, too.  Then again, so are modules.  And
functions.  Gee, there are an awful lot of built-in mutable types.  ;-)
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"Not everything in life has a clue in front of it...."  --JMS



From grundhan at cs.tu-berlin.de  Sat Jul 26 20:48:07 2003
From: grundhan at cs.tu-berlin.de (Hannes Grund)
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 02:48:07 +0200
Subject: Pythoncom shutdown problems
Message-ID: <MAEOJAHPEPMKFOGJBCMAEENJDGAA.grundhan@cs.tu-berlin.de>

Dear all,
probably offtopic for the general python list, but I don't know were to go
else.

I'm currently developing somekind of middleware
wich makes heavy use of pythonwin/com extensions.
(The complete setup is: win2000/winXP, python2.2,
win32all-152, wxPython resp. wxWindows).

The software is aimed to manage data held by a software
suite (called chemoffice) to manage chemical substances.
It exposes it main components via COM, the intagration
to python via win32com.client.Dispatch works well.
The problem:

When calling a special method on some of these COM objects
one component launches a process which appears to be a subprocess
of svchost.exe.
The result is that I'm unable to terminate the python process
after this process has been started, furthermore if
I shutdown the python process manually, it keeps alive, causing
problems during windows shutdown (i.e. you have to remove
it manually as well).

Any help or hint would be highly appreciated,

thanks in advance,
  Hannes Grund






From ddarch at xyborg.de  Thu Jul 10 21:56:15 2003
From: ddarch at xyborg.de (ddaemon)
Date: 11 Jul 2003 09:56:15 +0800
Subject: no python mode for my gvim
References: <3097082.1057868612@dbforums.com> <3f0dd87c.269088789@news.blueyonder.co.uk>
Message-ID: <3f0e193f_1@news.tm.net.my>

Alan Gauld wrote:

> On Thu, 10 Jul 2003 20:23:32 +0000, pygeek
> <member32992 at dbforums.com> wrote:
> 
> > "E370: Could not load library python21.dll
> 
> I guess you need to install a copy of Python 2.1 somewhere. You
> can delete all the docs and samples if space is tight...
> 
> [ Or you might try finding the call to load the DLL
> (loadlibrary()?)and change the name if its hard coded, but I
> dunno if that will work, its probably too simple! ]
> 

I'll try installing Python 2.1 later to see if it works.
question: how do i use the loadlibrary function?
i'm relatively new to gvim, sorry.
thanks for the reply.

--pygeek--



From staschuk at telusplanet.net  Thu Jul 31 21:02:39 2003
From: staschuk at telusplanet.net (Steven Taschuk)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 19:02:39 -0600
Subject: Retrieve source filename
In-Reply-To: <3f29207d$0$24768$626a54ce@news.free.fr>; from shrom@admin.zzn.com on Thu, Jul 31, 2003 at 03:58:20PM +0200
References: <3f29207d$0$24768$626a54ce@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <20030731190239.B22513@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>

Quoth Shrom:
> I know that you can retrieve main file name with sys.argv[0] and file name
> for a module with modulename.__file__ but is there a common way to retrieve
> file name for both main program and modules as the __FILE__ constant in PHP
> ?

As of 2.3, the __main__ module also has a __file__ attribute, so
you can just do
    sys.modules[__name__].__file__
The (an?) exception is when __main__ is the text in a 'python -c'
command -- then there is, of course, no file name.  And for
compatibility with versions < 2.3, you have to check for the case
__name__ == '__main__' and go to sys.argv[0].

-- 
Steven Taschuk                                7\ 7'Z {&~         .
staschuk at telusplanet.net                        Y r          --/hG-
                                            (__/ )_             1^1`




From rxs141 at cwru.edu  Sun Jul 20 02:43:56 2003
From: rxs141 at cwru.edu (Ravi)
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 02:43:56 -0400
Subject: "Pure Python" MySQL module like Net::MySQL
Message-ID: <bfddmi$7nk$1@eeyore.INS.cwru.edu>

Hi,

I did some googling, and found that there doesn't seem to be a pure 
python MySQL communication module. There is one for perl however, 
Net::MySQL. I was wondering if there was a specific reason why something 
similar hasn't been implemented in Python, a limitation of the language 
or libraries perhaps? I briefly scanned through the perl source for 
Net::MySQL, and there doesn't seem to be anything that couldn't be done 
in Python, but I'm a fresh convert from perl land and I don't much 
beyond the basics of Python yet.

Thanks,
Ravi




From kak at purdue.edu  Sun Jul 13 13:25:13 2003
From: kak at purdue.edu (Avi Kak)
Date: 13 Jul 2003 10:25:13 -0700
Subject: The definition of an object in Python
Message-ID: <94af9c5a.0307130919.1ab63400@posting.google.com>

Hello:

  Please forgive me if my question is too silly or just not 
  well-formed.

  Wesley Chun in his book (Core Python Programming) says that 
  **everything** in Python is an object.  So I became curious
  about the precise definition of an object in Python.  My
  curiosity was also driven by Wesley's statement that while
  every class instance is an object, not every object is a 
  class instance.

  Wesley says that every Python object must possess the following
  three characteristics: 1) an identity, which can be retrieved 
  by the function id(); 2) a type, which can be retrieved by
  the function type(); and 3) a value.

  But when I do the following

      mystring = 'hello'

      print mystring.id()

      print mystring.type()

  Python complains that mystring does not possess the attributes
  id and type.

  So now I am confused.  Any help with the resolution of this 
  issue would be much appreciated.

Avi Kak
kak at purdue.edu



From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Jul  4 08:42:20 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 08:42:20 -0400
Subject: Python is a gem, you need to keep pushing it ....
References: <41A1CBC76FDECC42B67946519C6677A9A20BBA@pippin.int.etrials.com> <mailman.1057308907.31415.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3F05762C.3B673917@engcorp.com>

delphiro wrote:
> 
[attribution removed... don't do that!]
> > Python *is* great but lets not pretend that its a good fit for every problem.
> 
> I doubt that (unless you develop hardware drivers).

Are you saying that you think Python _is_ a good fit
for every problem, excluding only hardware drivers?

-Peter



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Thu Jul 17 13:15:03 2003
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 13:15:03 -0400
Subject: anything like C++ references?
References: <000301c348c7$3c501980$21795418@dell1700>  <sag3hv4vf884ed7ouu5cv8ofnopp9j1t12@4ax.com>  <f0f51c80.0307132003.264b6894@posting.google.com>  <7dc4hvslh7a8fk9p6cvsfqa1c8d44rmmnv@4ax.com>  <beuepu$bsm$1@panix3.panix.com>  <sdd6hvsmsq32o62oknpqft6dc61lbup8rn@4ax.com> <20030714173855120-0600@news.xmission.com> <9mh6hv45v18apgn6lp7bo6mm63e5oba9rd@4ax.com> <f0f51c80.0307150921.7b6667e2@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <i_2dnT9-LNUBRIuiXTWJiQ@comcast.com>

"Adam Ruth" <owski at hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:f0f51c80.0307150921.7b6667e2 at posting.google.com...
> register int x = 5;
> int *y = &x;
>
> This also cannot be done.  Why?  Different semantics for register
> variables.

Minor nit: 'register' is not a mandate, but an ignorable suggestion.
So a compiler either could or must ignore 'register' in able to make
'&x' possible.

Of course, the idea of ignorable keyword suggestion is itself somewhat
strange ;-)

> In some cases they act like variables, in others they act like
pointers.
>  Now that's confusing.

I was certainly confused for awhile.  About the time I finally got it,
I switched to Python.  I *initally* understood *all* Python bindings
to be like C++ references (which in terms of the CPython
implementation is +- true), but the very uniformity made 'reference'
less confusing to me.

Interesting comments.  I'm glad you piped in.

Terry J. Reedy





From bokr at oz.net  Sat Jul 12 16:21:02 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 12 Jul 2003 20:21:02 GMT
Subject: Accessing and updating global variables among several modules
References: <a12f6af8.0307111938.4d7a9851@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bepqje$8cm$0@216.39.172.122>

On 11 Jul 2003 20:38:48 -0700, fumingw at tom.com (Fuming Wang) wrote:

>Hi,
>
>I have several modules that need to access global variables among
>them.  I can do that by import modules:
>
>module A:
>gA = 'old'
>
>module B:
>import A
>print A.gA
>>>> 'old'
>
>change gA in module A after some initialization:
>def init_fuct():
     global gA   # w/o this line, gA is just a local variable, and init_fuct() is well named ;-)
>    gA = 'new'
>
(I assume the above function was in module A, and either invoked from there or as A.init_fuct()
from somwhere else).

>no change in module B:
>print A.gA
>>>> 'old'
With the code above, there was no change in A either ;-)
>
>However, when I modify these global variables in one module, the other
>modules would not see the changes.  Any one has any suggestions? ( I
>don't want to use from A import *)
>
Just make sure you actually change A.gA and you should be able to see the change from B as A.gA.
Unless I am missing something.

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From alexis.francart at nospam.xagagroup.com  Wed Jul  9 07:18:41 2003
From: alexis.francart at nospam.xagagroup.com (Alexis Francart)
Date: 9 Jul 2003 11:18:41 GMT
Subject: importing re in Jython
Message-ID: <Xns93B386C32C053alexisfrancartnospam@193.252.19.141>

Hello,

I want to use a program called maxq. This program is used for functionnal 
and regression test of web application. The language it uses is Jython.
I need to get a part of a web page using regular expression.
However i try to import the RE library but i'm not able to.
Since the Jython.jar already contains an ORO i tried to use it but without 
success. I then tried to import the RE library but was unable to do so. I 
then try to import the regexp library from jakarta but without success.

Do you know how i can import the RE module in Jython?

NB: I hope the part on my life interested you since it has not too much to 
do with the question.

Alexis



From staschuk at telusplanet.net  Tue Jul  1 20:06:46 2003
From: staschuk at telusplanet.net (Steven Taschuk)
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 18:06:46 -0600
Subject: (Numeric) should -7 % 5 = -2 ?
In-Reply-To: <010720031119590501%pecora@anvil.nrl.navy.mil>; from pecora@anvil.nrl.navy.mil on Tue, Jul 01, 2003 at 11:19:59AM -0400
References: <87k7b6cf3d.fsf_-_@schedar.com> <mailman.1056836805.17229.python-list@python.org> <290620030817191641%pecora@anvil.nrl.navy.mil> <3g32gvcolis4485956egtc35akm6lh3uq5@4ax.com> <010720031119590501%pecora@anvil.nrl.navy.mil>
Message-ID: <20030701180646.A16441@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>

Quoth Louis M. Pecora:
  [...]
> The "uniqueness" comes in when we recogize that mod m defines an
> equivalence relation on the integers and so for a given m every integer
> falls into a unique class (or subset of integers).  The set of m
> subsets is equivalent to the positive integers  0 to m-1.  

Or any other complete residue system modulo m; another useful one
is [ floor(-m/2), floor(m/2) ).

> So it appears that the translation between math and computer science is
> not as clear as I thought.  In math (well, number theory) mod is a
> relation, not an operation.  In computer science it is an operation.

Graham, Knuth and Patashnik's _Concrete Mathematics_ (2nd ed.,
1994) claims that "[m]athematicians have used mod [as a binary
operator] informally for a long time, taking various quantities
mod 10, mod 2pi, and so on, but only in the last twenty years has
it caught on formally." (Section 3.4 'mod': The Binary Operation.
There's also a section 4.6 'mod' : The Congruence Relation.)

The question of negative operands is actually two separate
questions, one for the left operand and one for the right operand.

The question for the left operand is easy to a mathematician.  One
normal definition of the relation "congruent modulo m" is
    x == y (mod m)   :=   x - y is a multiple of m
(I use '==' in this post as an ASCII substitute for the three-
lined "is equivalent/congruent to" symbol.)  This directly implies
that, e.g.,
    -7 == 13 (mod 5)
and there is absolutely no question about this in mathematics; it
is essential for, e.g., the result that
    if   a == b (mod m)   and   c == d (mod m)
    then a+c == b+d (mod m)
and many other fundamental properties of congruences.

Now, if we want to call an operator 'mod', surely we want
    x mod m = y mod m    iff    x == y (mod m)
(hereafter "the desideratum").  Thus since (as above)
    -7 == 13 (mod 5)
we must have
    -7 mod 5 = 13 mod 5 = 3
Python's % does this, but Numeric's does not (so Numeric's % is
certainly not mod, though it is a remainder operator).

For negative right operands there is afaik no established
precedent in mathematics.  However, one obvious definition for the
behaviour described so far is
    x mod m   :=   x - m*floor(x/m)
and, given the customary way I've defined the mod relation, this
satisfies the desideratum for m < 0 too:
     7 mod -5 = -3     7 == -3 (mod -5)
    -7 mod -5 = -2    -7 == -2 (mod -5)
Python's % also produces these results.  (Another hint that this
is the Right Thing is that the identity
    0 <= (x mod m)/m < 1.
is preserved.  This doesn't hold with Numeric's % even for m > 0.)

That still leaves the question of zero as a right operand.  (Zero
as a left operand is no trouble at all, of course.)  From the
definition of the relation we have the cute fact that
    x == y (mod 0)   iff   x = y
The way to meet the desideratum in this case is to have
    x mod 0 = x
for all x.  This contradicts the definition
    x mod m   :=   x - m*floor(x/m)
since that would have x mod 0 undefined; and indeed Python's %
raises ZeroDivisionError here.  So Python's % is not *quite* mod
either; but an exception is probably more pragmatic for zero
modulus anyway.

-- 
Steven Taschuk                          staschuk at telusplanet.net
"Its force is immeasurable.  Even Computer cannot determine it."
                           -- _Space: 1999_ episode "Black Sun"




From mis6 at pitt.edu  Mon Jul 14 15:40:01 2003
From: mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato)
Date: 14 Jul 2003 12:40:01 -0700
Subject: The definition of an object in Python
References: <94af9c5a.0307130919.1ab63400@posting.google.com> <yu991xwuiac7.fsf@tinker.research.att.com>
Message-ID: <2259b0e2.0307140825.701c5c99@posting.google.com>

Andrew Koenig <ark at acm.org> wrote in message news:<yu991xwuiac7.fsf at tinker.research.att.com>...
> Avi>   Wesley says that every Python object must possess the following
> Avi>   three characteristics: 1) an identity, which can be retrieved 
> Avi>   by the function id(); 2) a type, which can be retrieved by
> Avi>   the function type(); and 3) a value.
> 
> Avi>   But when I do the following
> 
> Avi>       mystring = 'hello'
> 
> Avi>       print mystring.id()
> 
> Avi>       print mystring.type()
> 
> Avi>   Python complains that mystring does not possess the attributes
> Avi>   id and type.
> 
> type and id are functions, not methods.
> 
> >>> mystring = 'hello'
> >>> print mystring.id()         # using id as a method doesn't work
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
> AttributeError: 'str' object has no attribute 'id'
> >>> print id(mystring)          # using id as a function does
>  1456272
> >>> print type(mystring)        # ditto for type
> <type 'str'>

Just for fun, to show that the built-ins "id" and "type" are  regular objects:

>>> id(id)
1076547724
>>> type(type)
<type 'type'>
>>> type(id)
<type 'builtin_function_or_method'>
>>> id(type)
135272896


Michele



From alan.gauld at btinternet.com  Thu Jul 24 18:22:41 2003
From: alan.gauld at btinternet.com (Alan Gauld)
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 22:22:41 GMT
Subject: OT, was: Re: needs a logo
References: <7fe97cc4.0307230144.9119f89@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3f205ac9.745241690@news.blueyonder.co.uk>

This is way OT but...

On 23 Jul 2003 02:44:05 -0700, xah at xahlee.org (Xah Lee) wrote:

> Better logos should be reminiscent to what it represents. Good
> example's are ... Shell's seashell, 

I remember my grandfather telling me that the Shell  logo
originated around WW2 time and it represented a shell exploding 
(message => dynamic powerful company) on a building 
and was in two colors. After the war it was deemed 
a bad marketing image to use warlike logos so they 
"re-badged" the company as being around sea shells and 
the logo changed to what we know today.

I've never seen any other reference to this anywhere.
Does anyone know of a source (another grandfather?!)
that can confirm or deny this?

Just curious,

Alan G.



From donald.welch.nospam at hp.com  Tue Jul  1 17:01:43 2003
From: donald.welch.nospam at hp.com (djw)
Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 14:01:43 -0700
Subject: PyQt and async I/O
Message-ID: <3f01fb8f@usenet01.boi.hp.com>

Greetings-

I was looking at the ASPN recipe for async I/O and Tkinter:

http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/82965

I am interested in using the recipe that is provided in the comments section
for PyQt courtesy of Laura Creighton. 

I have a question though....

In the code, it says:

        "One important thing to remember is that the thread has to yield
        control."

That appears in this code (the thread that will contain the async I/O):

def workerThread1(self):
        """
        This is where we handle the asynchronous I/O. For example, it may be
        a 'select()'.
        One important thing to remember is that the thread has to yield
        control.
        """
        while self.running:
            # To simulate asynchronous I/O, we create a random number at
            # random intervals. Replace the following 2 lines with the real
            # thing.
            time.sleep(rand.random() * 0.3)
            msg = rand.random()
            self.queue.put(msg)


If you were to use asyncore for this async I/O, there is no yielding that I
can see. Select() doesn't yield, and there is no time.sleep() in the
asyncore.loop() code. Even if I were to add a time.sleep() to the loop,
wouldn't the fact that select() blocks for some timeout value (default=30.0
sec) imply that it would only yield after the select() timed out each time
through the loop? That would seem to make for a pretty unresponsive UI. 

Hopefully somebody can clue me into understanding this.

Thanks,

Don




From johnroth at ameritech.net  Wed Jul  2 07:34:07 2003
From: johnroth at ameritech.net (John Roth)
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 07:34:07 -0400
Subject: Circular Inheritance
References: <mailman.1057099023.14043.python-list@python.org> <slrnbg4850.st5.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local> <mailman.1057124943.21695.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <vg5gndinpsq642@news.supernews.com>

"Ian Bicking" <ianb at colorstudy.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.1057124943.21695.python-list at python.org...
> On Tue, 2003-07-01 at 19:00, Ben Finney wrote:
> > Re-design the modules so that inheritance is a hierarchy.  A
band-aid
> > solution may be to create a new class that mediates between two
others,
> > breaking the circle.  Much better is to figure out why the classes
need
> > to know so much about each other, and redesign them with smaller,
> > simpler interfaces.
>
> It seems quite reasonable to have circular dependencies between two or
> more classes.  The most common case being that one class references
the
> other, and the other class has back references.  Very common, and it
> doesn't imply that the classes know too much about each other.

However, this wouldn't normally cause import problems. Import
problems are very specific: they are caused by the two modules
referencing classes or identifiers in the other module ***while they
are being loaded***. If all the modules contain are class and
function definitions, and all the class definitions contain is method
definitions, the only possible problems I could see would be the
inheritance part of the class statement, and defaults in the function
and method definitions. Both of these need to be defined at import
time.

Since inheritance is strictly hierarchical, it isn't too difficult to
import in the right order.

> You might encounter less problems if those classes go together in a
> single module, but module boundaries are just there to help the
> programmer organize code, they have little formal meaning.
>
> > Even if there were a way to do circular inheritance, it would be a
> > nightmare to understand, so needs to be redesigned anyway.
>
> He probably just meant circular dependency, since obviously
inheritance
> doesn't make sense.

And circular dependencies are difficult as well. The best policy,
as several posters have already said, is to redesign to eliminate it.

John Roth
>
>   Ian
>
>
>





From ngps at netmemetic.com  Sat Jul  5 10:24:36 2003
From: ngps at netmemetic.com (Ng Pheng Siong)
Date: 5 Jul 2003 14:24:36 GMT
Subject: What does this core dump mean?
Message-ID: <be6n34$824$1@mawar.singnet.com.sg>

Hi,

I just noticed that demo/evp_ciph_test.py of my M2Crypto package
causes a core dump. It used to not do that. ;-)

The core dump happens when the program is exiting; in the output below,
rc2_40_cbc is the last test run by the program:

  $ python evp_ciph_test.py
  ...
  testing aes_256_cfb ... ok
  testing aes_256_ofb ... ok
  testing rc4 ... ok
  testing rc2_40_cbc ... ok
  Segmentation fault (core dumped)

Here's the gdb trace:

  #0  0x8099fc4 in _PyObject_GC_UnTrack (op=0x8183c4c) at Modules/gcmodule.c:869
  869                     _PyObject_GC_UNTRACK(op);
  (gdb) bt
  #0  0x8099fc4 in _PyObject_GC_UnTrack (op=0x8183c4c) at Modules/gcmodule.c:869
  #1  0x805dfc7 in tupledealloc (op=0x8183c4c) at Objects/tupleobject.c:142
  #2  0x807b029 in code_dealloc (co=0x819ba80) at Python/compile.c:98
  #3  0x80be6ce in func_dealloc (op=0x81943cc) at Objects/funcobject.c:377
  #4  0x80c800b in PyDict_SetItem (op=0x8190b0c, key=0x8198dc0, value=0x80e4adc)
      at Objects/dictobject.c:373
  #5  0x80caddd in _PyModule_Clear (m=0x8181eec) at Objects/moduleobject.c:136
  #6  0x808bdab in PyImport_Cleanup () at Python/import.c:352
  #7  0x80945fd in Py_Finalize () at Python/pythonrun.c:218
  #8  0x8053620 in Py_Main (argc=2, argv=0xbfbffa44) at Modules/main.c:378
  #9  0x8052ed0 in main (argc=2, argv=0xbfbffa44) at Modules/python.c:10
  #10 0x8052e22 in _start ()

What does the error mean?

TIA. Cheers.

-- 
Ng Pheng Siong <ngps at netmemetic.com> 

http://firewall.rulemaker.net  -+- Manage Your Firewall Rulebase Changes
http://www.post1.com/home/ngps -+- Open Source Python Crypto & SSL



From dmbkiwi at yahoo.com  Sun Jul 13 15:02:19 2003
From: dmbkiwi at yahoo.com (dmbkiwi)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 07:02:19 +1200
Subject: Python - if/else statements
References: <pan.2003.07.11.19.34.16.330762@yahoo.com> <ben6uf$tcr$0@216.39.172.122> <pan.2003.07.11.23.16.08.781512@yahoo.com> <benpvl$9kj$0@216.39.172.122> <pan.2003.07.12.02.27.29.730366@yahoo.com> <beq4io$19r$0@216.39.172.122> <pan.2003.07.13.00.30.47.81216@yahoo.com> <beqlfp$21k$0@216.39.172.122> <pan.2003.07.13.04.40.33.630099@yahoo.com> <bes36r$cpo$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <pan.2003.07.13.19.02.14.925975@yahoo.com>

On Sun, 13 Jul 2003 17:00:11 +0000, Bengt Richter wrote:

> On Sun, 13 Jul 2003 16:40:39 +1200, dmbkiwi <dmbkiwi at yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
>>On Sun, 13 Jul 2003 03:59:53 +0000, Bengt Richter wrote:
>>
> [...]
>>> BTW, since you uploaded it, is there an URL for it?
>>
>>http://www.kdelook.org/content/show.php?content=6384
>>
> I get a tar file, but winzip thinks it's broken. Usually it handles them fine.
> 
> 03-07-13  09:34                507,442 6384-weather_liquid_py-0_7_2_tar.tar
> 
> [ 9:51] C:\pywk\clp\dmbkiwi>lsm *tar
> 3912fe9836d69ec9004da899e08e352e 6384-weather_liquid_py-0_7_2_tar.tar
> 
> That's the MD5 digest, same as from (in case you want to check against a known good you have):
> 
> [ 9:52] C:\pywk\clp\dmbkiwi>python D:\Python22\Tools\Scripts\md5sum.py 6384-weather_liquid_py-0_7_2_tar.tar
> 3912fe9836d69ec9004da899e08e352e 6384-weather_liquid_py-0_7_2_tar.tar
> 
> Regards,
> Bengt Richter

It's a *.tar.bz2 file.  Does winzip handle bzipped files?  Dunno, don't
use it.  If you are interested, I can email the script.  Alternatively,
you could start using linux.  Your choice :-).
-- 
Regards
Matt

If there is any realistic deterrent to marriage, it's the fact that you
can't afford divorce.
		-- Jack Nicholson




From bokr at oz.net  Fri Jul 18 17:55:46 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 18 Jul 2003 21:55:46 GMT
Subject: "\n" in ASCII-file
References: <bf8j40$bj4e4$1@ID-108519.news.uni-berlin.de> <bf8p4l$ci8ua$1@ID-141451.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <bf9qd2$de0$2@216.39.172.122>

On Fri, 18 Jul 2003 14:28:05 +0200, Karl Scalet <news at yebu.de> wrote:

>Martin P schrieb:
>> Hello,
>> 
>> for a short exercise-program I have to read the lines in an ASCII-file.
>> 
>> But every line has a new-line-feed ("\n") at the end of the line. (The
>> ASCII-file was made with Windows Notepad).
>> Is this only because I used Windows (and Notepad)?
>> 
>> And... is there any special method to read lines from a file without "\n"?
>> 
>> Bye,
>> Martin
>> 
>> 
>
>beside the issue about large or not-so-large files, there
>is another difference between Gerhard's line.rstrip() and
>my splitlines() method:
>entire_file.splitlines() preserves trailing whitespace characters
>while line.rstrip() doesn't. Just for the rare case it matters :-)
>
I guess you could use line.rstrip('\n') in that case, e.g.,

 >>> '  line with trailing space    \n'.rstrip()
 '  line with trailing space'
 >>> '  line with trailing space    \n'.rstrip('\n')
 '  line with trailing space    '

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From martin at v.loewis.de  Fri Jul 18 11:21:27 2003
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-15?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 18 Jul 2003 17:21:27 +0200
Subject: Using Unicode scripts
References: <3f17c520$0$7194$626a54ce@news.free.fr> <mailman.1058524589.28334.python-list@python.org> <3f17eace$0$23860$626a54ce@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <m37k6flv2g.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

"yzzzzz" <yzzzzz at netcourrier.com> writes:

> This means that Python doesn't take into account the specified encoding
> (Latin 1 or UTF-8) and prints out the raw bytes as they appear in the source
> file, regardless of the encoding used. Is this normal? 

It is. The "standard" string type of Python is a byte string, which is
not suitable to represent characters in general (although it works
fine for ASCII).

As the state of a string object consists just of its bytes, no
knowledge of the original source encoding can be preserved. No
knowledge of the source encoding is preserved for Unicode strings,
either, but that is not a problem since the source gets converted to
Unicode while parsing it.

Regards,
Martin




From buki at bukis.org  Mon Jul 14 14:27:23 2003
From: buki at bukis.org (Andreas Bauer)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 20:27:23 +0200
Subject: some questions
Message-ID: <3f12f613$0$8731$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>

Hi,

I need some information on how to deal with strings which I have
divided by using split(). I'm new to python and don't know how to
handle these split up strings. 
And I some one could recommend a good tutorial I would be very
glad. Can't hardly find any.

Thanks in advance.

Andreas



From mcherm at mcherm.com  Thu Jul 10 10:00:51 2003
From: mcherm at mcherm.com (Michael Chermside)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 07:00:51 -0700
Subject: How does python work 
Message-ID: <1057845651.3f0d7193692ac@mcherm.com>

First, let me answer your questions:

Geiregat Jonas writes:
> I'm asking myself how Python code get's executed ...

Normally, a compiler compiles the code to a .pyc file, then an interpreter
processes the .pyc file executing the code therein.

> What happens first etc ...
> First read the file and then ..

The script you provide is executed statement-by-statement in order from
top to bottom. Of course, if a statement (eg: import) involves executing
code from another file or from some C extension, then that happens when
the invoking statement is processed. Most programs put a bunch of imports
then a bunch of class and function definitions, then a small bit of
actual code-to-be-executed at the bottom, after a little incantation
like this:  "if __name__ == '__main__':".

> How python handle's variable internally ...

In all cases, the actual object is allocated on the heap. A variable
is a reference to an object, and they are stored different places
depending on the scope of the variable. Global (ie module-level) 
variables are stored in a hash table (dict). Object instance variables 
are stored in a dict. Class-level variables like methods are stored in 
a dict. Local function variables are stored on the stack but made to 
LOOK like they're in a dict.

> also could someone point me to the build in functions in the python source
> code ?

Pointing you to parts of the Python code is beyond the scope of this
posting.


Anyway, now that I've answered the questions you've ASKED (except the last
one), let me answer the questions you DIDN'T ask but might be wise to ask:

QUESTION: Where can I go to see a beginners tutorial on Python?
          There are quite a few. A list can be found here:
          http://www.python.org/doc/Newbies.html

QUESTION: Where can I find Python's documentation?
  ANSWER: http://www.python.org/doc/
          I would start by reading the Tutorial... it's an excellent
          introduction to Python. Then you'll probably want to start
          browsing through bits of the Library Reference.

QUESTION: Where can I ask questions about Python?
  ANSWER: This newsgroup is fine, but you might also want to check out
          the Python Tutor List, found at 
          http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor

QUESTION: Can I learn Python just by experimenting with it?
  ANSWER: For the most part, YES! I suggest installing Python, then
          finding a way to run it from the command line (how you do
          that depends on your operating system). Then play around
          a bit. Of course, you'll still want the documentation
          available, but you can figure out lots just by doing this.

-- Michael Chermside


-------------------------------------------------
This mail sent through IMP: http://horde.org/imp/




From nbdy9 at hotmail.com.nospam  Wed Jul 30 14:02:16 2003
From: nbdy9 at hotmail.com.nospam (Mark)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 14:02:16 -0400
Subject: How to get Windows physical RAM using python?
Message-ID: <bg90lh$bkp$1@news3.bu.edu>

Thanks.




From mdgrosse at sbox.tugraz.at  Tue Jul 29 19:09:30 2003
From: mdgrosse at sbox.tugraz.at (Michael Gross)
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 23:09:30 GMT
Subject: PyArg_ParseTuple and float/double
Message-ID: <K8DVa.17219$2j1.210093@news.chello.at>

I want to use Python to make it possible to do scripting in my 
application. So I write wrappers for my C++ classes. Everything works 
fine, but it seems, that I cant use float and double arguments with 
PyArg_ParseTuple:

PyArg_ParseTuple(args, "d", &double_1)  and
PyArg_ParseTuple(args, "f", &float_1)

always returns false.
I even looked at the args directly:
     PyObject* s = PyObject_Str(args);
     char *ss = PyString_AsString(s);

then ss maybe has the value "(2.5339999999999998,)".

It works, when I use an integer instead:

PyArg_ParseTuple(args, "i", &int_1)

But then of course the value is floored.
I tried with Python 2.2.2 and 2.2.3. I use PyRun_SimpleString to run the 
script.

tia
   Michael




From scook at elp.rr.com  Fri Jul  4 01:59:10 2003
From: scook at elp.rr.com (Stan Cook)
Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 05:59:10 GMT
Subject: File information??
Message-ID: <OI8Na.58613$TJ.2869886@twister.austin.rr.com>

Is there a way to get the file size and modified date of a file?





From max at alcyone.com  Tue Jul 15 01:02:20 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 22:02:20 -0700
Subject: anything like C++ references?
References: <000301c348c7$3c501980$21795418@dell1700> <sag3hv4vf884ed7ouu5cv8ofnopp9j1t12@4ax.com> <bet1sd$ibl$1@panix3.panix.com> <sfa4hvkq1j7rg1iga5j3tk2cc4qpr6e5qk@4ax.com> <beueis$b1d$1@panix3.panix.com> <78c6hvgu599ku5denkkl7pgmd4n13t460i@4ax.com> <roy-204535.19175914072003@reader1.panix.com> <3F135328.89C1F89C@alcyone.com> <hmq6hv8amht3kis59pqgab5mbqekc5675c@4ax.com> <v3u6hv0tna44h5bjd38fkqjma5r437fv3k@4ax.com> <pau6hv4p7ticslc32d4bt1rcap6kbd57jf@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3F138ADC.4BF9DB3A@alcyone.com>

Stephen Horne wrote:

> True enough. The issue of how assignment is represented is trivial and
> unimportant in the scheme of things.

Then I retract (or at least soften) my earlier comment; I thought you
were suggesting that it was a significant issue.

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ The actor is not quite a human being -- but then, who is?
\__/  George Sanders



From jjl at pobox.com  Thu Jul 31 21:45:56 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 01 Aug 2003 02:45:56 +0100
Subject: HTML DOM parser?
References: <7x7k5y5wfh.fsf_-_@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <87ispi5ewb.fsf@pobox.com>

Paul Rubin <http://phr.cx at NOSPAM.invalid> writes:

> Is there an HTML DOM parser available for Python?  Preferably one that
> does a reasonable job with the crappy HTML out there on real web
> pages, that doesn't get upset about unterminated tables and stuff like
> that.  Many extra points if it understands Javascript.  Application is
> a screen scraping web robot.  Thanks.

glork.  I just started working on this myself.

Email me if you'd like the code, such as it is.  I've wrapped the
Mozilla JS interpreter but am currently stuck on a segfault, so I
could certainly do with a collaborator.

I'm using utidylib and 4DOM (latter from PyXML).

Mind you, if you actually want to get a job done <wink>, for a
quick-but-bulky (and somewhat closed) solution, try PyKDE (KHTML /
KJS) or IE automation (MSHTML / JScript).  Mozilla + XPCOM also, but I
think it requires rebuilding Mozilla to get PyXPCOM support.  There's
also httpunit (in Java, useable from Jython).


John



From skodela at lithium.com  Fri Jul 18 13:54:45 2003
From: skodela at lithium.com (sreekant)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 17:54:45 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: how to compile python program to linux executable
In-Reply-To: <bf8akp$g95$1@news.tudelft.nl>
References: <bf8akp$g95$1@news.tudelft.nl>
Message-ID: <bf9c94$18s$1@titan.btinternet.com>

Python being interpreted should not depend that much on os version etc. 
It ofcourse will depend on the python/wxpython/vtk versions themselves 
though, especially if you use some procedure/facility and that has been 
changed in the version your client has.

I have distributed a gui program in the past and although it gave a few 
niggles [ I can't remember which ! ] it wasn't a major problem.

YMMV
sreekant

Maurice wrote:

> Or can I only do this when they have exactly the same Linux version.
> Or is it only possible when they have installed the other progames 
> containing the modules.
> The modules I'm thinking of is for example wxPyhton and/or VTK.
> 
> Maurice
> 




From m.hadfield at niwa.co.nz  Mon Jul 21 00:20:48 2003
From: m.hadfield at niwa.co.nz (Mark Hadfield)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 16:20:48 +1200
Subject: A challenge to the ASCII proponents.
In-Reply-To: <60dfb6f6.0307201951.4eea1930@posting.google.com>
References: <mailman.1058278343.23104.python-list@python.org> <bf167a$pvt$1@panix2.panix.com> <ufzl7rdno.fsf@online.no> <3F142A58.80426AA4@hotmail.com> <2259b0e2.0307161620.4a9353f1@posting.google.com> <Xns93BB246FDDBCFJanC@213.118.75.80> <3F168011.3AEB3EFC@hotmail.com> <60dfb6f6.0307201951.4eea1930@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bffpmt$gu8$2@newsreader.mailgate.org>

Carl Banks wrote:

> Alan Kennedy <alanmk at hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<3F168011.3AEB3EFC at hotmail.com>...
> 
>>So, the challenge to the ASCII proponents is: put the greek word
>>"gignooskoo" on everybody's screen, originating from a usenet message,
>>in the original greek, where "oo" -> greek letter omega.
> 
> I accept.
> 
>     ____        ____             ___    _____           ___
>    |       |   |       |\   |   /   \   \       |  /   /   \
>    |       |   |       | \  |   |   |    \      | /    |   |
>    |       |   |       |  \ |   |   |     >     |<     |   |
>    |       |   |       |   \|   \   /    /      | \    \   /
>    |       |   |       |    |   _\ /_   /____   |  \   _\ /_
> 
> 
> :-)
> 

I am old enough to remember ASCII art, though I won't admit to ever 
participating in this activity myself. (It used to be said that it makes 
one go blind.) I think that answer has to take first prize for originality.

I hope you won't think if I'm a spoilsport in pointing out that it fails 
the "everybody" test, as many people use proportional fonts in their 
news readers.



-- 
Mark Hadfield            "Ka puwaha te tai nei, Hoea tatou"
m.hadfield at niwa.co.nz
National Institute for Water and Atmospheric Research (NIWA)




From dmbkiwi at yahoo.com  Fri Jul 11 15:34:18 2003
From: dmbkiwi at yahoo.com (dmbkiwi)
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 07:34:18 +1200
Subject: Python - if/else statements
Message-ID: <pan.2003.07.11.19.34.16.330762@yahoo.com>

I am new to this group, and relatively new to python programming, however,
have encountered a problem I just cannot solve through reading the
documentation, and searching this group on google.

I have written a theme in python for the superkaramba theme engine on kde
(see http://netdragon.sourceforge.net - if you are a kde/linux user, it is
a great visual applet engine).  I have uploaded it to www.kdelook.org for
others to download and use, however, some users are having an issue, which
to me seems to be very strange.

Basically the problem is that their version of python is ignoring an
if/else statement, and I can't understand why.  Over 3000 people have
downloaded the theme, and only 3 people have identified this problem.  The
relevant portion of code is:

def meterClicked(widget, meter, button):
	#print "meterclick"
	global dayshow, daypicrem, ddon, ddcon, buttonpressed
	if (meter == mainpic) and (button == 1):
		if ddcon == 0:
			if ddon == 1:
				deleteDayDetail(widget, dayshow)
				karamba.redrawWidget(widget)
			createCurrentDetail(widget)
			karamba.redrawWidget(widget)
		else:
			deleteCurrentDetail(widget)
	else:
		for i in range(0,5):
			if (meter == daypicrem[i]) and (button == 1) and (dayshow != i):
				#print "buttonpressed: day" + str(i)
				if ddon == 1:
					deleteDayDetail(widget, dayshow)
					karamba.redrawWidget(widget)
				elif ddcon == 1:
					deleteCurrentDetail(widget)
					karamba.redrawWidget(widget)
				createDayDetail(widget, i)
				karamba.redrawWidget(widget)
				dayshow = i
				#print dayshow
				break
			if (meter == daypicrem[i]) and (button == 1) and (dayshow == i):
				if ddon == 1:
					deleteDayDetail(widget, dayshow)
					karamba.redrawWidget(widget)
				elif ddcon == 1:
					deleteCurrentDetail(widget)
					karamba.redrawWidget(widget)
				dayshow = i
				#print dayshow
				break
	buttonpressed = 1


What these users are experiencing is that this portion of code is being
processed, and evaluating all if statements as true, however, as you can
see, they cannot all be true each time this function is called.  Their
versions of python also ignore the else construct.

Can anyone shed any light on what might be going on with these users?

Matt  



From justinjohnson at fastmail.fm  Tue Jul  8 11:31:17 2003
From: justinjohnson at fastmail.fm (Justin Johnson)
Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 09:31:17 -0600
Subject: process.py problems
Message-ID: <20030708153117.127C0326C0@www.fastmail.fm>

Hello,

I was wondering if anyone has seen this behavior before for the
process.py
module available at http://starship.python.net/crew/tmick/.  I've been
using it quite well on windows 2000 servers, but when I try to use it on
a window nt 4.0 box I get the results posted below.  I have both
process.py and which.py installed.

Any help you can provide is greatly appreciated.

>>> import process
>>> p = process.ProcessOpen("dir")
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
  File "process.py", line 1108, in __init__
    self._startOnWindows()
  File "process.py", line 1279, in _startOnWindows
    cmd = _fixupCommand(cmd, self._env)
  File "process.py", line 506, in _fixupCommand
    cmd = _whichFirstArg(cmd, env)
  File "process.py", line 315, in _whichFirstArg
    candidates = list(which.which(first))
  File "which.py", line 251, in which
    raise WhichError("Could not find '%s' on the path." % command)
which.WhichError: Could not find 'dir' on the path.
>>> p = process.ProcessOpen("dir.exe")
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
  File "process.py", line 1108, in __init__
    self._startOnWindows()
  File "process.py", line 1279, in _startOnWindows
    cmd = _fixupCommand(cmd, self._env)
  File "process.py", line 506, in _fixupCommand
    cmd = _whichFirstArg(cmd, env)
  File "process.py", line 315, in _whichFirstArg
    candidates = list(which.which(first))
  File "which.py", line 251, in which
    raise WhichError("Could not find '%s' on the path." % command)
which.WhichError: Could not find 'dir.exe' on the path.
>>> p = process.ProcessOpen("cmd")
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
  File "process.py", line 1108, in __init__
    self._startOnWindows()
  File "process.py", line 1295, in _startOnWindows
    raise ProcessError(msg=ex.args[2], errno=ex.args[0])
process.ProcessError: The system cannot find the file specified.
>>> 




From tcronj at ananzi.co.za  Wed Jul 23 06:54:35 2003
From: tcronj at ananzi.co.za (Tertius)
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 12:54:35 +0200
Subject: Design tool
Message-ID: <3f1e985d$0$236@hades.is.co.za>

Can anyone suggest a favorite, design/Case/UML Tool used by the open 
source community? (in particular the Python community)

Thanks,
Tertius




From bokr at oz.net  Mon Jul 21 17:03:17 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 21 Jul 2003 21:03:17 GMT
Subject: A challenge to the ASCII proponents.
References: <mailman.1058278343.23104.python-list@python.org> <bf167a$pvt$1@panix2.panix.com> <ufzl7rdno.fsf@online.no> <3F142A58.80426AA4@hotmail.com> <2259b0e2.0307161620.4a9353f1@posting.google.com> <Xns93BB246FDDBCFJanC@213.118.75.80> <3F168011.3AEB3EFC@hotmail.com> <3F172442.2040907@v.loewis.de> <oprsg8jf1xttxc4i@news.t-online.de> <3F195CC4.D426E416@hotmail.com> <slrnbhjm31.tp.bignose-hates-spam@rose.localdomain.fake> <3F1AA450.765D07FD@hotmail.com> <slrnbhmt6t.si4.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local> <3F1BB7A3.D4223855@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <bfhkel$mmp$0@216.39.172.122>

On Mon, 21 Jul 2003 10:51:32 +0100, Alan Kennedy <alanmk at hotmail.com> wrote:

>I don't want to go on and on about this, and I'm happy to concede that
>some of my points are far from proven, and others are disproven.
>However, there are one or two small points I'd like to make.
>
Ditto ;-)

>Ben Finney wrote:
>
>>>> Which quickly leads to "You must use $BROWSER to view this site".
>>>> No thanks.
>
>Alan Kennedy wrote:
>
>>> No, that's the precise opposite of the point I was making.
>
>Ben Finney wrote:
>
>> You also stipulated "... from a Usenet post".  Most Usenet readers
>> do not handle markup, nor should they.  There are many benefits from
>> the fact that posts are plain text, readable by any software that can
>> handle character streams;
>
>1. While there may be benefits from posts being plain text, there are
>also costs. The cost is a "semantic disconnect", where related
>concepts are not searchable, linkable or matchable, because their
>character representations are not comparable.
<author>I</author><verb>hope</verb><addressee>you</addressee>
don't want some awful garbage like the above line in postings?
Especially since the bulk of it would probably be automatically
generated an MS NLP feature ;-/

>
>2. I chose the "from a usenet post" restriction precisely because of
>the 7-bit issue, because I knew that 8-bit character sets would break
>in some places. It was an obstacle course.
I see this as a separate issue from semantics, though. Encoding consistent
signs for identical things is a different problem from handling and encoding
the *meaning* of the things indicated.

>
>> parsing a markup tree for an article is a whole order
>> of complexity that I'd rather not have in my newsreader.
>>
>> Expecting people to use a news reader that attempts to parse markup
>> and render the result, is like expecting people to use an email reader
>> that attempts to parse markup and render ther result.  Don't.
>
>I don't expect people's newsreaders or email clients to start parsing
>embedded XML (I nearly barfed when I saw Microsoft's "XML Data
>Islands" for the first time).
>
>What I'm really concerned about is the cultural impact. I voluntarily
>maintain a web site for an organisation that has members in 26
>countries, who not surprisingly have lots of non-ASCII characters in
>their names. Here's one:
Ok, but, do we need to embed a full markup language to handle small
encoding exceptions, it that's the real concern? (IMO, no ;-)

>
>http://www.paratuberculosis.org/members/pavlik.htm
>
>Because of the ASCII restriction in URLs, I was only able to offer Dr.
>Pavl?k the above uri, or this:
>
>http://www.paratuberculosis.org/members/pavl%EDk.htm
>
>which sucks.

Which part, though? The encoding, or the fact that you see the encoding
in the above instead of its being rendered with the intended appearance?

IOW, any solution will involve *some* encoding and the possibility of
rendering it "raw" or interpreted. A smart GUI might have a default
mode showing everything interpreted, and have a "view source" button.

But "any solution" is not where we are. I think most people would object to
getting this kind of stuff in what appears to be just visually enhanced mail,
if they were aware every time it happened:
(I hope nobody's too-smart-for-its-own-good viewer tries to see the following
as actual MIME content ;-/)

-----
...
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000"

<x-html>
<html>
<body>
<A HREF="http://ad.doubleclick.net/jump/N2870.or/B914513.8;sz=1x1;ord=[timestamp]?">
<IMG SRC="http://ad.doubleclick.net/ad/N2870.or/B914513.8;sz=1x1;ord=[timestamp]?" BORDER=0 WIDTH=1 HEIGHT=1 ALT=""></A>
...
-----
The trouble is that any automated following of references out of received information
is effectively a stealth channel for info, if only to inform that your computer processed
the message. Not to mention cookie stuff, and exploitation of real security holes.

The defense of filtering out requests to alternate server sources may be a reasonable
compromise for web viewing, but IMO such defenses should not be necessary in email.

But the large majority of users will use MS stuff with whatever defaults MS decided
good for something. So an email winds up doing a lot more than presenting different
language encodings and fonts well.

That's why alternatives have appeared, but what happens if an html chunk is handed to
a MS system DLL to do rendering? How limited is the interpretation? Should it all be
rewritten from scratch and duplicate lots of stuff already available? What can safely
be handed off? A whole email preview pane presentation?

>
>Little wonder then that the next generation are choosing to explicitly
>remove the accents from their names, i.e. his colleague Dr. Machackova
>explicitly asked to have the accents in her name removed. Although I
>assured her that her name would be correctly spelled, on web sites
>that I maintain, the fact that her name breaks continually with
>various ASCII centric technologies makes her think it's not worth the
>hassle, or worth the risk of searches for her name failing.
>
That is a complaint about the current state of affairs, though.
The problem is migration to new tools without unacceptable backwards breakage.
Unfortuantely, the lowest common denominator tends to be a breakage solution.

>http://www.paratuberculosis.org/members/machackova.htm
>
>And what about Dr. Sigur?ard?ttir, Dr. Dj?nne, and Dr. de la Cruz
>Dom?nguez Punaro? Are they destined to be passed over more often than
>ASCII-named people?
>
>[BTW, I've written the above in "windows-1252", apologies if it gets
>mangled]
>
>Solely because of technical inertia, and unwillingness to address the
>(perhaps excessive) complexity of our various communications layers,
>i.e. our own "Tower of 7-bit Babel", we're suppressing cultural
>diversity, for no technically valid reason.
>
>I personally don't have the slightest problem with reformulating NNTP
>and POP to use XML instead: In a way, I think it's almost inevitable,
>given how poor our existing "ascii" technologies are at dealing with
>i18n and l10n issues. Emails and usenet posts are all just documents
>after all.
Right, but are they multimedia presentations? I like the option to have
the latter, but only by optional and intentional linkage following, and
rendered by a separate invoked tool, not as an email reader built-in.

That might seem like a fine distinction, but it is easier to trust a limited
tool with well-defined and manual control transfers to other functionality
than it is to trust and automated doitall. That is the comfort of plain ascii, IMO,
and for many that comfort is worth a fair amount of other discomfort.

If the information for the other tool has to be embedded, we have MIME attachments,
but IMO they should not be delivered by default. ISTM having a selection of simple
separate tools that do limited things only on manual command would be better for email
than having it be an instance of general purpose XHTML processing.

>
>Would something like this really be so offensive (the Gaelic isn't, I
>promise :-)? Or inefficient?
>
>#begin---------
><?xml version="1.0" encoding="windows-1252"?>
><xnntp>
>  <subject>An mhaith l'?inne dul go dt? an nGaillimh D?
>Domhnaigh?</subject>
>  <from>al?in ? cinn?ide</from>
>  <to>na cail?n? agus na buachaill?</to>
></xnntp>
>#end-----------

Hm, your post arrived to me with this in the header:
--
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
--

ISTM the problem is the dual aspect of some meta-data (e.g. headers).
I.e., to recognize meta-data, something has to assume an encoding for *it*.
The simplest assumption is a fixed standard assumption, like ascii.
This dual-aspect problem appears also in file systems, where a box handle
also serves as a box label and loose content-type indicator.

If you want meta-data also to be GUI-presentation-encoded data you
are getting away from a standard assumption, or perhaps substituting
the utf-8 standard assumption of XML. If the latter, why not just let
that be it, without involving the tagged markup cruft of XML, unless
you have specific goals for the markup per se? I can see such goals,
but I don't think they belong in normal email, and to do it just to
identify header elements is IMO an unclean solution to what  rfc2822
already does much more readably (taking glyph encoding as a separate issue).

The problem with multiple encoding declarations is that they have to be
recognized as meta-data. They belong *on* the box, not in it. The only
way to be in a box is to be on a box inside a box that can contain others
in a way that separates the contained boxes, like multi-part MIME sections.

Otherwise an nested encoding declaration would have to be *itself* encoded
in whatever the current encoding was. But then you have to decide that it
wasn't just peculiar data, and you have to invent an escape, etc...

Just switching to utf-8 as a standard assumption for "box labels"
(e.g., email headers and file names etc.) would IMO go a long way
towards avoiding XML for email bodies. Thus

...
From: Alan Kennedy <alanmk at hotmail.com>
Organization: just me.
...
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
...
would be encoded in utf-8, but after the blank line that ends the header,
it would be assumed text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1.

I'm sure people like Martin have given this a lot more thought (not to mention
relevant implementation work ;-)  than I have, so I would not be surprised to
have important issues I've disrgarded pointed out.

For special effects in emails, I could see borrowing the XML "processing instruction"
escape, of which <?xml ... ?> itself is an example. I.e., That syntax means invoke
the named processing, passing ... up to the ?> as arguments to the processing program.

I wouldn't want just any of these to take off automatically, though. Imagine, e.g.,

<?python
    import os
    os.system( '...nastiness...')
?>

A smart email reader could hide <?xxx ...?> as a clickable xxx and let you right-click
to see the source, but an old reader would just show it as above.

Embedded pictures could e.g. be specific to a base64-encoded (and *that* represented in the
current encoding, along with the entire <? ... ?>) gif, like
<?gif ...base64 stuff...?> Clicking the highlighted "gif" might pop up a picture
in a child window, etc.

<?svg ... ?> Might be interesting also. All these things could be designed to operate
on immediate data vs referred-to data, where the latter could refer to attachments or
urls or whatever.

This mechanism could also be used to solve the gignooskoo problem, something like
(here with immediate data):

<?utf8 &#947;&#943;&#947;&#957;&#969;&#963;&#954;&#969;?>

Where that whole thing is encoded within the current message in its current encoding
(which can't be violated by including actual utf-8 characters not in common)
but is seen by the smart email reader as invokng "utf8" processing. That might be one
that one would elect to have the reader do automatically.

Again, for email readers that don't understand <?xxx ... ?> you just see it as above.

But converting email/news wholesale to an instance of XHTML, please no! ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From rmunn at pobox.com  Tue Jul 29 13:06:51 2003
From: rmunn at pobox.com (Robin Munn)
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 17:06:51 GMT
Subject: Downloading Python files
References: <slrnbi2j1n.ra.luke@stclair.homelinux.net> <Qx6cnW7W3L3Y6byiU-KYvA@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <slrnbidaf1.563.rmunn@localhost.localdomain>

Terry Reedy <tjreedy at udel.edu> wrote:
> 
> "Luke StClair" <luke at stclair.homelinux.net> wrote in message
> news:slrnbi2j1n.ra.luke at stclair.homelinux.net...
>> Only marginally belonging in this newsgroup... but oh well.
>>
>> I've just started writing in python, and I want to make the files
>> available on the web.  So I did the standard <a
>> href="mypath/myfile.py"> and not surprisingly, it displays like a
>> webpage, but just the code.
> 
> What browser on what system?  As I remember, with IE6/Win98 with
> python installed, even left clicking brings up 'Downloading... open or
> save' box.  And there is always right click 'Download as..' option.

That's because Microsoft is a standard unto themsleves. IE will ignore
the Content-Type header being sent by the server; instead, it will look
at the user's file type settings for the extension of the file. In this
case, the system you were testing on had no entry for the .py extension,
so downloading was the default option. But get this: if you had *wanted*
to show the code (instead of downloading), the way to do it in a
cross-platform way, compatible with every browser *except IE* would be
to set "Content-Type: text/plain" on the file. But <DWS>Microsoft knows
best, dear</DWS>, so IE would override that and make the user download
the file instead of displaying it.

BTW, for those not familiar with DWS, it means Dripping With Sarcasm.

Sorry for the vitriol against IE and Microsoft, but this has been a
*very* annoying issue for me from time to time.

-- 
Robin Munn <rmunn at pobox.com> | http://www.rmunn.com/ | PGP key 0x6AFB6838
-----------------------------+-----------------------+----------------------
"Remember, when it comes to commercial TV, the program is not the product.
YOU are the product, and the advertiser is the customer." - Mark W. Schumann



From logiplex at qwest.net  Tue Jul 22 18:27:31 2003
From: logiplex at qwest.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: 22 Jul 2003 15:27:31 -0700
Subject: wxPython probleme
In-Reply-To: <pan.2003.07.08.15.49.14.537053@sdf-eu.org>
References: <pan.2003.07.08.15.49.14.537053@sdf-eu.org>
Message-ID: <1058912851.1448.93.camel@software1.logiplex.internal>

On Tue, 2003-07-22 at 13:53, Geiregat Jonas wrote:
> Hey,
> here's my piece of code :
> 
> class HtmlWindow(wxHtmlWindow):
>    def __init__(self,parent,id):
>        wxHtmlWindow.__init__(self,parent,id)
> 
> 
class channelTree(wxTreeCtrl):
>    def __init__(self,parent,id):
>        wxTreeCtrl.__init__(self,parent,id)
>        self.root = self.AddRoot("Sites")
>        for i in range(len(names)):
>            self.AppendItem(self.root,names[i])
>        EVT_TREE_SEL_CHANGED(self,105,self.OnCelChanged)
> 
>    def OnCelChanged(self,event):
>        item = event.GetItem()
>        print self.GetItemText(item)
> 
> class MainSplitter(wxSplitterWindow):
>    def __init__(self,parent,id):
>        wxSplitterWindow.__init__(self,parent,id)
>        self.html = HtmlWindow(self,-1)
>        self.html.LoadPage("welcome.html")
>        self.SplitHorizontally(self.html,wxWindow(self,-1),500)
>        self.Show(1)
> 
> 
> If you look at the channelTree class I've created a wxTreeCtrl when you
> change a sel a execute onCelChanged Now I would like that when you
> change a sel he loads an other page into the HtmlWindow. But I don't
> really have an idea on how to do this any help ?

I'm assuming that self.GetItemText() in OnCelChanged() returns a URL? 
In that case you can simply pass that to HtmlWindow.LoadPage().  You'll
need to pass a reference to your HtmlWindow instance to your channelTree
instance so that it can call LoadPage()

class channelTree(wxTreeCtrl):
   def __init__(self,parent,id, htmlWindow):
       wxTreeCtrl.__init__(self,parent,id)
       self.root = self.AddRoot("Sites")
       for i in range(len(names)):
           self.AppendItem(self.root,names[i])
       EVT_TREE_SEL_CHANGED(self,105,self.OnCelChanged)
       self.htmlWindow = htmlWindow

   def OnCelChanged(self,event):
       item = event.GetItem()
       self.htmlWindow.LoadPage(self.GetItemText(item))


Regards,

-- 
Cliff Wells, Software Engineer
Logiplex Corporation (www.logiplex.net)
(503) 978-6726  (800) 735-0555





From postmaster at 127.0.0.1  Sun Jul 13 20:56:27 2003
From: postmaster at 127.0.0.1 (David McNab)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 12:56:27 +1200
Subject: Any pure-python relational databases?
References: <pan.2003.07.12.14.11.19.428895@127.0.0.1> <2a897f11.0307121143.4a37113b@posting.google.com> <pan.2003.07.13.02.12.39.725180@127.0.0.1> <3f1178ba$0$6533$afc38c87@sisyphus.news.be.easynet.net>
Message-ID: <pan.2003.07.14.00.56.23.326849@127.0.0.1>

On Sun, 13 Jul 2003 17:19:57 +0200, Justin paused, took a deep breath,
then came out with:

>>> While not relational, have you looked at Metakit?
> 
>> Thank YOU, Wayne!!! :)))
> 
> Be careful, though: the metakit page states that
> "There is no multi-user support", so I am not sure
> this is the ideal choice for a web-app. Unless the
> web clients just fetch dynamic pages and don't need
> to _write_ to the db... I have been intrigued by the
> library myself, but always thought this warning must
> be there for a reason...

Cave-man solution - lockfiles and wait loops.

If a website is so busy that waiting on locks risks maxing out the 30
second cgi limit, then presumably traffic is high enough to justify
getting a better server.





From tl_news at nexgo.de  Wed Jul 30 07:50:37 2003
From: tl_news at nexgo.de (Tino Lange)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 13:50:37 +0200
Subject: Bottleneck: easy obscurity "encryption" via xor
References: <p6rdivscomvoraihqmac4piut7uqcpdvj1@4ax.com> <7xwue0pzcl.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <1d45gb.cjp.ln@217.11.196.167> <7xn0ew1cre.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <bg8bed$lmh84$1@ID-72146.news.uni-berlin.de>

Paul Rubin wrote:

Hi!

> If you want to encrypt in python, try the p2.py that I posted; it's
> been carefully designed with good algorithms and fairly well optimized
> and should give much better security than some roll-your-own method.

Thanks! But BTW your "time-bomb" and your comments in the file tell me that
this script must not be used anymore...

Cheers,

Tino




From leo.broska at NOSPAM.isys.com.au  Wed Jul  2 02:40:22 2003
From: leo.broska at NOSPAM.isys.com.au (Leo)
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 16:40:22 +1000
Subject: experience with emacs and python-mode
References: <bdp8gv$2krt$1@otis.netspace.net.au>
Message-ID: <bdtum6$22bi$1@otis.netspace.net.au>

thanks for your information.

now i've started to use python-mde a bit more and its qirks quite well.

cheers, leooo

"Leo" <leo.broska at NOSPAM.isys.com.au> wrote in message
news:bdp8gv$2krt$1 at otis.netspace.net.au...
> hi all
>
> i'm new to python and new to the group and i want to develop python with
> emacs :-) i try to use python-mode.el version 4.6.
>
> does somebody else uses this? or what is your recommendation for editing
> python code in emacs?
>
> btw: i have a little customisation problem with python mode:
>
> after running a script with py-execute-import-or-reload the cursor is in
the
> output window but i want to have it back in the source code. is there a
> option i can tweak?
>
> thanks for all answers,
>
> leooo
>
> --
> recursive (ri-ker-siv): adj.; see "recursive"
>
>





From h.goebel at goebel-consult.de  Mon Jul 21 06:01:22 2003
From: h.goebel at goebel-consult.de (Hartmut Goebel)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 12:01:22 +0200
Subject: feature request: a better str.endswith
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1058534669.8794.python-list@python.org>
References: <2259b0e2.0307180401.5dae02f2@posting.google.com> <mailman.1058534669.8794.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3f1cedc8$0$12995$9b4e6d93@newsread4.arcor-online.net>

Skip Montanaro schrieb:

> I suggest you submit a feature request to SF.  

+1 from me :-)

This is a commonly used case. Using things like stripext() is only a 
solution for this specific case where filename-extensions are matched.

Michele: I suggesz menatoning this in the feature-request or simple use 
a different example (not based on filename extension.)

Regards
Hartmut Goebel
-- 
| Hartmut Goebel             | IT-Security -- effizient |
| h.goebel at goebel-consult.de | www.goebel-consult.de    |




From tjg at craigelachie.org  Tue Jul 22 13:22:09 2003
From: tjg at craigelachie.org (Timothy Grant)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 10:22:09 -0700
Subject: SAX questions...
Message-ID: <200307221022.09513.tjg@craigelachie.org>

I've worked with DOM before, but never SAX, I have a script that seems to work 
quite well, but every time I look at it I think it's amazingly unweildly and 
that I must be doing something wrong. 

def startElement(self, name, attr):
    if name == "foo":
	do_foo_stuff()
    elif name == "bar":
        do_bar_stuff()
    elif name == "baz":
        do_baz_stuff()

There's similar code in endElement() and characters() and of course, the more 
tags that need processing the more unweildly each method becomes.

I could create a dictionary and dispatch to the correct method based on a 
dictionary key. But it seems to me there must be a better way.

Is there?


-- 
Stand Fast,
    tjg.

Timothy Grant
www.craigelachie.org





From erhan at uzem.itu.edu.tr  Wed Jul  2 04:17:49 2003
From: erhan at uzem.itu.edu.tr (Erhan Ekici)
Date: Wed,  2 Jul 2003 11:17:49 +0300
Subject: Partition names with Python
In-Reply-To: <m2n0fy46w3.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>
References: <1056984252.3f004cbc6abd6@mail.uzem.itu.edu.tr> <mailman.1056988192.18351.python-list@python.org> <bdqsjr$tjb$0@216.39.172.122> <mailman.1057047963.15568.python-list@python.org> <slrnbg2q16.pm7.pipen@beast.tu.kielce.pl> <m2n0fy46w3.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>
Message-ID: <1057133869.3f02952d4d733@mail.uzem.itu.edu.tr>

Hi,

But some machines /proc/partition file is empty..
But /etc/fstab contain drives names..(sda1,sda2,cdrom,floopy etc)

For Example My Server(Slackware 9)'s /proc/partition file contain nothing.
I must take partition names on all Linux(Redhat,Mandrake,Slackware etc)..

Why do some machine's /proc/partition file contain nothing... 

Erhan,

Quoting John Hunter <jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu>:

> >>>>> "Artur" == Artur M Piwko <pipen at beast_tu_kielce.pl> writes:
> 
>     Artur> And /proc/partitions.
> 
> Best yet!
> 
> import os
> fh = file('/proc/partitions')
> 
> fh.readline() # eat the header
> fh.readline() # eat the blank line
> 
> partitions = [line.split()[-1] for line in fh.readlines()]
> print partitions
> 
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 


-- 

Erhan Ekici
ITU Center for Distance Learning
E-Mail : erhan at uzem.itu.edu.tr







From guettler at thomas-guettler.de  Tue Jul  1 04:56:07 2003
From: guettler at thomas-guettler.de (Thomas =?ISO-8859-15?Q?G=FCttler?=)
Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 10:56:07 +0200
Subject: experience with emacs and python-mode
References: <bdp8gv$2krt$1@otis.netspace.net.au>
Message-ID: <bdrib7$vb9m9$1@ID-63505.news.dfncis.de>

Leo wrote:

> hi all
> 
> i'm new to python and new to the group and i want to develop python with
> emacs :-) i try to use python-mode.el version 4.6.
> 
> does somebody else uses this? or what is your recommendation for editing
> python code in emacs?

My recommendation is, to only edit code in emacs. I execute
it in an xterm. C-c C-g is mapped to goto-line. I prefere to 
jump to the position of an error in the code myself.



From fredrik at pythonware.com  Fri Jul 11 03:36:47 2003
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 09:36:47 +0200
Subject: Deleting specific characters from a string
References: <mailman.1057865895.31949.python-list@python.org> <x0qPa.6909$o86.5112@news1.central.cox.net>
Message-ID: <belqaa$g2j$1@main.gmane.org>

Jeff Hinrichs wrote:

> First off, (holding hat in hand), I reread the profile module and then set
> my profiler up correctly with the proper bias setting.

you *cannot* use the profiler to measure overall execution time; it's
designed to let you know where the program spends most of its time,
not to compare different algorithms.

use 2.3's timeit script, or write your own timing loop.  with timeit, I
get these results:

> python timeit.py -s "import string; text = 'ben at orange?enter&your&code';
delete = '@&'; table = string.maketrans('', '')" "result = text.translate(table,
delete)"
100000 loops, best of 3: 13.9 usec per loop

> python timeit.py -s "text = 'ben at orange?enter&your&code'; delete  = '@&'"
"result = text" "for c in delete: result = result.replace(c, '')"
10000 loops, best of 3: 48.4 usec per loop

</F>







From rich at mchsi.com  Wed Jul 30 22:41:23 2003
From: rich at mchsi.com (Rich)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 02:41:23 GMT
Subject: how best to handle httplib timeouts ?
References: <mnHVa.9399$Oz4.2070@rwcrnsc54> <mailman.1059571376.25384.python-list@python.org> <AhRVa.12480$Oz4.3844@rwcrnsc54> <87k79zx5q6.fsf@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <nl%Va.24134$o%2.14311@sccrnsc02>

"John J. Lee" <jjl at pobox.com> wrote in message
news:87k79zx5q6.fsf at pobox.com...
>
[snip]
>
> 1. Get 2.3final (I don't know whether there was a bug fix, but I have
>    a vague recollection there was some sort of problem with timeouts
>    -- see the python-dev summaries and/or SF bug archive).

yes, this seems to have made the problem go away... I tried setting the
default timeout but it still acted flakey and would not connect, so, I
removed this and everything seems to be working, or at lest timing out
correctly.

2.3final also solved the "ImportError: No module named warnings" problem
with py2exe and I think this may have had something to do with it.

thanks,
rich.





From ianb at colorstudy.com  Fri Jul 18 17:42:14 2003
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: 18 Jul 2003 16:42:14 -0500
Subject: properties + types, implementing meta-class desciptors
	elegantly?
In-Reply-To: <3F17ECAC.30104@rogers.com>
References: <3F17ECAC.30104@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <1058564534.28066.28.camel@lothlorien>

On Fri, 2003-07-18 at 07:48, Mike C. Fletcher wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> I'm working on a base meta-type for a plug-in system, and I'd really 
> like to use the same rich-descriptor objects as I've used everywhere 
> else in the system.  Basically these are descriptors that intercept 
> x.name, do various transformations, and then store the values in the 
> instance dictionary.
> 
> Unfortunately:
> 
>  >>> type(t).pluginRole
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
>   File "p:\properties\basicproperty\basic.py", line 231, in __get__
>     return self.getDefault( client )
>   File "p:\properties\basicproperty\basic.py", line 256, in getDefault
>     setattr( client, self.name, value )
>   File "p:\properties\basicproperty\basic.py", line 283, in __set__
>     self._setValue( client, value )
>   File "p:\properties\basicproperty\basic.py", line 151, in _setValue
>     client.__dict__[ self.name ] = value
> TypeError: object does not support item assignment
> 
> which would seem to suggest that the only way to use the regular 
> descriptors would be to do the (annoying) '_'+name thing so that there's 
> a proliferation of names in the class (which I *really* don't want).  
> So, does anyone have a pattern which allows setting an attribute on a 
> class which doesn't go through the setattr machinery (i.e. can be used 
> within a descriptor)? 

Maybe you could create just new attribute.  Call it _shadow, perhaps. 
Then the setter does setattr(client._shadow, name, value).  The shadow
could be a plain class like:

class Shadow(object): pass

class Plugin(object):

    def __init__(self):
        self._shadow = Shadow()


May or may not be more elegant, but you can decide for yourself.

  Ian






From zathras at thwackety.com  Mon Jul 28 12:08:35 2003
From: zathras at thwackety.com (Michael Sparks)
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 17:08:35 +0100 (BST)
Subject: Debugging Python ?
In-Reply-To: <3F2547F4.4020601@zope.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0307281703500.27290-100000@pingu.thwackety.com>

On Mon, 28 Jul 2003, Shane Hathaway wrote:

> As a bonus, I find that print statements do not rightfully belong in
> most of the software I write.  Therefore I can happily add print
> statements anywhere for debugging purposes, knowing that removing them
> later is perfectly safe.

As an extra bonus, if you do this you can remove them all automatically:

def print(*args):
   for arg in args:
      print arg,
   return True


assert print("Well, well, well", "said", "he")

To erase all tracks of the debugging statements at runtime, just use the
-O flag. I tend to use a variant of this for debugging systems that have
"complex" concurrency to make it simpler to track "who" "said" what.

I know you can do the same with just grep if you use print - but you have
to ensure that your debugging statements don't span multiple lines.


Michael.





From afriere at yahoo.co.uk  Fri Jul 18 01:16:42 2003
From: afriere at yahoo.co.uk (Asun Friere)
Date: 17 Jul 2003 22:16:42 -0700
Subject: Replacing rexec
References: <87adbd73f1.fsf@pobox.com>, <mailman.1058378245.3305.python-list@python.org> <bf455m$1sr$1@panix3.panix.com> <87adbd73f1.fsf@pobox.com> <20030717131402.26541.qmail@green.zadka.com> <mailman.1058455527.3092.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <38ec68a6.0307172116.433da94f@posting.google.com>

Jack Diederich <jack at performancedrivers.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.1058455527.3092.python-list at python.org>...

> MUDs also have an advantage
> because the people writing code are hand picked.  They have a stake in doing
> the right thing so they rarely write malicious code.

Not so with most MOOs (MOO was designed from the ground up to be
programmable
via a prototyping OO language (the OO in MOO) by any user with a prog
bit set), where almost anyone is given programming privleges.  In fact
the only requirement, AFAIK (and it's been a while), on the MOO cited
(LambdaMOO), is membership of one month standing.



From thedustbustr at aol.com  Sun Jul 27 16:22:45 2003
From: thedustbustr at aol.com (TheDustbustr)
Date: 27 Jul 2003 20:22:45 GMT
Subject: boost::python> exposing instances from c++
Message-ID: <20030727162245.07099.00000480@mb-m12.aol.com>

I'm writing a game in C++ which calls out to python for scripting.  I'd like to
expose the instance of my Game class (a singleton) to python (so that the
instances of Clock, Camera, etc are available to the scripts).

I ran into trouble trying to expose a specific instance (or even a function
returning the instance).  Here is a simplification of my problem in code (c++):

<code>
class A{
public:
    int i;
};
class B{
public:
    A a;
};
B b;
B getb() {return b;} //return the instance

int main() {
    getb().a.i = 42;
    return 0;}
#include <boost/python/module.hpp>
#include <boost/python/class.hpp>
#include <boost/python/def.hpp>
using namespace boost::python;
BOOST_PYTHON_MODULE(hello)
{
    class_<A>("A",init<>())
        .def("i", &A::i);
    class_<B>("B",init<>())
        .def("a", &B::a);
    def("getb", getb);
}
</code>

Of course, I would be calling any python script using these classes from within
main().

This doesn't compile (using bjam with msvc).  If I return by reference or
pointers in getb it gets ugly (like pages and pages of error messages).  Am I
doing this the right way?  How do I expose an instance to python?



From MatthewS at HeyAnita.com  Mon Jul 21 20:23:36 2003
From: MatthewS at HeyAnita.com (Matt Shomphe)
Date: 21 Jul 2003 17:23:36 -0700
Subject: Voting Project Needs Python People
References: <LDVSa.14955$Mc.1126731@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <5ab0af73.0307211623.6e12f807@posting.google.com>

"Alan Dechert" <adechert at earthlink.net> wrote in message news:<LDVSa.14955$Mc.1126731 at newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>...

> We have an excellent team together.  We're looking for a few good Python
> coders willing to volunteer for this free open source project.  It will be
> on sourceforge.net later today.

Are there any prerequisites for joining the team?



From jmfbahciv at aol.com  Tue Jul 22 07:36:59 2003
From: jmfbahciv at aol.com (jmfbahciv at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 03 11:36:59 GMT
Subject: Collective memory
References: <mailman.1057083728.8224.python-list@python.org> <vg88va53uha8e@corp.supernews.com> <hff5eb.e9h.ln@escape.shannon.net> <3F082031.3010503@netscape.netNOTthisBIT> <bec993c8.0307080602.7d5d132e@posting.google.com> <beeln9$b63$8@bob.news.rcn.net> <n1tphvg2gtmjsl8j3rehh33ebhqkb91q2d@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <bfjb61$s4b$1@bob.news.rcn.net>

In article <n1tphvg2gtmjsl8j3rehh33ebhqkb91q2d at 4ax.com>,
   Brian Inglis <Brian.Inglis at SystematicSw.ab.ca> wrote:
>On Tue, 08 Jul 03 12:43:14 GMT in alt.folklore.computers,
>jmfbahciv at aol.com wrote:
>
>>In article <bec993c8.0307080602.7d5d132e at posting.google.com>,
>>   shoppa at trailing-edge.com (Tim Shoppa) wrote:
>><snip>
>>
>>>Remember the Dilbert where PHB complains that his programmers are using
>>>way too many semicolons? :-)
>>
>>All RIGHT!  That's a good PHB.  It was so difficult to distinguish
>>between a semicolon and a colon on the listings.
>
>That's a lousy printer operator: the ribbon should have been
>flipped end around long before it got to that stage. 
>(That's the old equivalent of shaking a laser toner cartridge.) 
>You also wouldn't be able to differentiate between commas and
>dots, some apostrophes and quotes, maybe bars and bangs, possibly
>parens brackets and braces, if you had and used them. 

Yep.  I know it was due to lousy print quality.  However, I firmly
believed that lousy print quality should have been a slight
constraint in designs.  

Nowadays, we have great print quality; now, it's my eyesight that
smudges the pixels.  And it still should be a slight contraint in
designs.  Distinguishing characters, no matter what the display,
has to be a first consideration that is usually forgotten by
the time the design takes its first evolution.  Just because
it's forgotten does not mean that it's no longer an implicit 
assumption.

/BAH

Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.



From sismex01 at hebmex.com  Mon Jul 14 19:30:15 2003
From: sismex01 at hebmex.com (sismex01 at hebmex.com)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 18:30:15 -0500
Subject: anything like C++ references?
Message-ID: <F7DB8D13DB61D511B6FF00B0D0F0623305677E7B@mail.hebmex.com>

> From: Tom Plunket [mailto:tomas at fancy.org] 
> Sent: Lunes, 14 de Julio de 2003 06:15 p.m.
> 
> What I specifically want is a way to have a "second-level
> binding", e.g. a reference to a reference (assuming that the
> terminology is correct by saying that all Python variables are
> references).  This is where I see the hole in Python, that there
> actually is a class of object that is different from everything
> else; you can bind to anything at all in the language...except
> references.
> 
> -tom!
>

What for?  What would be the practical use for such a thing?
To rebind a name remotely?  It's not very consistent with the
rest of the language.

To have functions which rebind a name in a hidden way seems
to me like a veritable fountain of possible bugs.  Explicit
is better than implicit and all that.

Those operations might have sense in a language where a variable
name is directly related to a storage location, a memory address;
but Python is not like that, and trying to program in that style
in Python is quite painful.

I find Python to be quite clear and powerful, and never have needed
such functionality in all the different type of projects I've done,
small-to-medium, but varied: SQL parsers, XML parsers, email
messaging systems, GUI frontends, RPC servers and clients,
text-formatting utilities, etc...  I've never found a single
instance where I would have needed such that.

A binding can't also be a container, that's a job for an object,
if you truly need to "pull" data from a code segment, then you
should use a dictionary, or a list, or an instance of some
other mutable class, heck, even an empty class:

class Inbox: pass

IB = Inbox()

def fn(obj):
   obj.value = 25
   obj.message = "Here's a value for you"
   ... etc

Even a scheme as simpleminded as this is infinitely better than
having functions rebind your variable names to other objects,
even if they're the same class.

This, at least, is my opinion on the subject.

-gustavo


Advertencia:La informacion contenida en este mensaje es confidencial y
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la transmision, favor de comunicarse con el remitente. Gracias.




From michael at stroeder.com  Sat Jul 26 14:31:01 2003
From: michael at stroeder.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Michael_Str=F6der?=)
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 20:31:01 +0200
Subject: autoconf-style checking for installed libs with DistUtils
Message-ID: <60uav-or3.ln1@nb2.stroeder.com>

HI!

Is it possible to probe for installed libs with DistUtils?

I'd like to automatically search for optional libs and adjust C compiler 
switchers before starting the build of a the extension module.

Ciao, Michael.




From roy at panix.com  Tue Jul 15 11:22:18 2003
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: 15 Jul 2003 11:22:18 -0400
Subject: [OT] sentances with two meanings
References: <mailman.1058278343.23104.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bf167a$pvt$1@panix2.panix.com>

Harvey Thomas <hst at empolis.co.uk> wrote:
> Also 'I was unknown to you and you deceived me'. Slightly colloquial

Given the biblical meaning of "known", this could have even more than
two meanings :-)



From mdgrosse at sbox.tugraz.at  Wed Jul 30 14:25:51 2003
From: mdgrosse at sbox.tugraz.at (Michael Gross)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 18:25:51 GMT
Subject: PyArg_ParseTuple and float/double - Solution
In-Reply-To: <K8DVa.17219$2j1.210093@news.chello.at>
References: <K8DVa.17219$2j1.210093@news.chello.at>
Message-ID: <P4UVa.26811$2j1.345535@news.chello.at>

> it seems, that I cant use float and double arguments with 
> PyArg_ParseTuple:
The problem was, that there was an error from another PyArg_ParseTuple 
in another method before, so PyError_Occured() was true and 
PyArg_ParseTuple test for this when parsing a double or float argument. 
So a call to PyErr_Clear helps.

thx
   Michael




From claird at lairds.com  Thu Jul  3 08:39:06 2003
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 12:39:06 -0000
Subject: Collective memory (was: Good code patterns in Python)
References: <mailman.1057083728.8224.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <vg88va53uha8e@corp.supernews.com>

In article <mailman.1057083728.8224.python-list at python.org>,
Bob Gailer  <bgailer at alum.rpi.edu> wrote:
			.
			.
			.
>This brings back the good old days of FORTRAN IV which had a 
>single-statement IF and no ELSE. Thus:
>       C = VALUE1
>       IF ( A .EQ. B) C = VALUE2
>Notice the indentation. Cols 1-5 were reserved for line # and col 6 for the 
>continuation code. So Python is not the only indentation dependent 
>language. Nor is it the first to use indentation to convey structure.
			.
			.
			.
Maybe youngsters don't realize this.

One monotonous but unremitting argument that Python inspires
is about the wisdom of its white-space-significance (WSS).
Modern programmers might not realize how strongly old-timers
associate WSS with early FORTRAN and COBOL (as we capitalized
them then), and how unpleasant some of those memories are.
*That*, I assume, is why WSS discussions become as heated as
they do.
-- 

Cameron Laird <Cameron at Lairds.com>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
Personal:  http://phaseit.net/claird/home.html



From jbar at lf1.cuni.cz  Thu Jul  3 08:16:55 2003
From: jbar at lf1.cuni.cz (Jiri Barton)
Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 14:16:55 +0200
Subject: Python - get key pressing ?
References: <mailman.1057217886.5423.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3f041eb7@shknews01>

http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/203830



From larry_Goodman at yahoo.com  Fri Jul 11 11:56:26 2003
From: larry_Goodman at yahoo.com (Chuck Spears)
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 15:56:26 GMT
Subject: Why Python
References: <3f0be9ac@news.comindico.com.au> <mailman.1057747872.29479.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3f0edd67.316281478@news.pa.comcast.giganews.com>

>There are, but if you're into thin GUI clients like VB6, there is no 
>direct equivalent.

LOL.  Tell our VB guys who have to bundle VB6 runtimes, MDAC, and
other assorted Activex controls with their apps how thin VB6 clients
are.  If you want a truly thin windows client, use Delphi or C++
Builder.



From staschuk at telusplanet.net  Wed Jul 16 04:58:39 2003
From: staschuk at telusplanet.net (Steven Taschuk)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 02:58:39 -0600
Subject: hex check
In-Reply-To: <3F150135.8030708@is.lg.ua>; from alienoid@is.lg.ua on Wed, Jul 16, 2003 at 10:39:33AM +0300
References: <3F150135.8030708@is.lg.ua>
Message-ID: <20030716025839.B3824@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>

Quoth Ruslan Spivak:
> Does anybody have a hint how to check if input hex number is in correct 
> hex format?

It's not entirely clear what you mean by "correct hex format".

If you mean "contains only the characters 0-9, a-f, and A-F", then
here's three ways:

    # 1
    import re
    def ishex(s):
        return re.match('^[0-9a-fA-F]*$', s) is not None

    # 2
    import string
    def ishex(s):
        for character in somestring:
            if character not in string.hexdigits:
                return False
        else:
            return True

    # 3
    import string
    def ishex(s):
        return s.strip(string.hexdigits) == ''

But I wonder why you want to bother checking this explicitly.
Consider these implementations (which are not actually
functionally equivalent to the previous three -- details left as
an exercise):

    # 4
    def ishex(s):
        try:
            int(s, 16)
        except ValueError:
            return False
        else:
            return True

    # 5
    import binascii
    def ishex(s):
        try:
            binascii.unhexlify(s)
        except TypeError:
            return False
        else:
            return True

Presumably, if the string *is* in correct hex format, you'll want
to convert it to an int or a byte string or something.  Why not
just do whatever it is you want to do and catch the possible
exception, as these implementations illustrate?

-- 
Steven Taschuk             "The world will end if you get this wrong."
staschuk at telusplanet.net     -- "Typesetting Mathematics -- User's Guide",
                                 Brian Kernighan and Lorrinda Cherry




From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Thu Jul 17 15:26:34 2003
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 17 Jul 2003 15:26:34 -0400
Subject: Wanted: PyCon e-commerce site
Message-ID: <bf6t9a$pfa$1@panix3.panix.com>

[Apologies to those of you who see this multiple times]

We're starting to gear up for PyCon 2004, and we're looking for someone
willing to handle setting up an e-commerce site for handling
registration.  If you're interested in taking on this responsibility,
please send e-mail to pycon-organizers at mail.python.org

We'd like to have this site running by the end of September.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

A: No.
Q: Is top-posting okay?



From theller at python.net  Wed Jul 23 13:42:26 2003
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 19:42:26 +0200
Subject: py2exe prob
References: <mailman.1058770352.11938.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <adb5kum5.fsf@python.net>

"ryan" <ambiod at sbcglobal.net> writes:

> my program uses unicode functions and so i compile like:
> "python setup.py py2exe --packages encodings"
>
> which seems to create unicodedata.pyd and zlib.pyd, the problem is when i
> run my exe it acts like it didnt do that, it still gives me the error:
>
> ImportError: No module named warnings
> warning: assignment shadows builtin

>From these messages I infer that you are using Python 2.3, correct?
There are still some py2exe problems with 2.3, I hope to resolve them
soon.

Thomas



From max at alcyone.com  Mon Jul  7 19:46:29 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 16:46:29 -0700
Subject: A story about Python... sort of
References: <mailman.1057616412.8695.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3F0A0655.99823E25@alcyone.com>

John J Lee wrote:

> A Google result (appropriately enough, given the origin of
> the name Google) ...

But the origin of the name was generated from a misspelling of _googol_
(the name for 10^100), which evidently was found via Web searches.  So
the origin of the name of the search engine

> ... suggested 10**120, and I seem to have a number in my head
> of 10**80 non-virtual particles in the universe (though I've no
> recollection where *that* number came from either!-).

Typically the total number of elementary particles in the observable
Universe is given as 10^80.  But when you're talking about such rough
estimates, the difference between 10^80, 10^100, and 10^120, although
incredibly huge, aren't all that much.  What's twenty or forty orders of
magnitude between friends?

Note that the qualification "observable Universe" here is crucial.  We
can only see to the edge of the cosmological horizon, where due to
cosmological expansion, particles are receding at greater than the speed
of light.  This is due to the finiteness of the speed of light and the
fact that the Universe is not infinitely old.  As time progresses, we'll
see more of the Universe, and so the observable Universe will increase
in size.

In standard Friedmann-Robertson-Walker models, you have open, flat, or
closed universes.  Recent observations seem to suggest that we live in
an open universe -- one which will continue to expand forever until
matter itself decays.  In FRW models, open (and flat) universes have
infinite spatial extent.  So, presuming we live in a universe that
follows this models, the true Universe is infinitely large, even though
we can only see a finite, small part of it.

> Possibly there is a quantum algorithm that makes use of many universes
> to
> solve the problem, though (no I'm not joking: the many-worlds
> 'interpretation' is widely accepted amongst physicists working on
> quantum
> computation).

Since it's an interpretation, though, it's just an intuitive way of
looking at the situation.  Quantum mechanical interpretations do not
modify the theory itself; that is, they neither add nor subtract
anything from the theory which is testable in any way.

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ Said it? yep / Regret it? nope
\__/  Ice Cube



From gumuz at looze.net  Wed Jul 16 04:29:03 2003
From: gumuz at looze.net (Guyon Morée)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 10:29:03 +0200
Subject: Python Quiz
References: <84fc4588.0307152253.20858619@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3f15132a$0$13797$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net>

I spotted one funny 'mistake' .... the first question asks the name of the
inventor of python.
the second one gives you the answer :)




"Anand Pillai" <pythonguy at Hotpop.com> wrote in message
news:84fc4588.0307152253.20858619 at posting.google.com...
> Hi Pythonistas,
>
> I have placed a quiz on Python on the trivia site www.funtrivia.com.
> Here is the link.
>
> http://www.funtrivia.com/quizdetails.cfm?id=139672
>
> Looks like it is the first quiz on Python on this site.
>
> Please try it out if you like quizzing.
> Let me know if there are any factual errors.
>
> Thanks
>
> ~Anand





From urnerk at qwest.net  Sat Jul  5 22:24:45 2003
From: urnerk at qwest.net (urnerk at qwest.net)
Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2003 22:24:45 -0400
Subject: [Edu-sig] Re: Least used builtins?
Message-ID: <191690-2200370622445807@M2W045.mail2web.com>

Just to represent another viewpoint, I'll say that what's in builtins has
nothing to do with what does or does not make sense to the beginner.
It's a set of tools, including some low level ones that only make sense
to a non-newbie.  Likewise, 'copy' isn't there in a generic sense 
(it's there for dicts, which are builtin and sport a copy method), because
the pro doesn't need it that often.  What does or doesn't make sense to the
newbie is irrelevant.  A language need not be designed based on that 
perspective, to be good.  It's the job of teachers to smooth the on ramp,
and in that regard, just don't teach all the builtins to start.  Just 
because they're all builtins doesn't mean each must be tackled in order,
one by one.  The strikes me as unimaginative, plodding.

Kirby



--------------------------------------------------------------------
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From ben at dadsetan.com  Tue Jul  1 17:47:11 2003
From: ben at dadsetan.com (Behrang Dadsetan)
Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 22:47:11 +0100
Subject: Possible fix for Bug 494589 - os.path.expandvars bug
Message-ID: <3F02015F.3000903@dadsetan.com>

Here follows the comment I added to bug "[ 494589 ] os.path.expandvars 
deletes things on w32".


It concerns some mismatching (buggy) implementation / docstrings / 
comments for the ntpath.py and dospath.py.

(Especially) As it is my first post as well as bugfix try for any 
open-source project, I am very happy receiving constructiv critic.

tim_one (see other 494589 bug comments) is right. There is plenty of 
dodgy things hiding behind the os.path world, especially when it comes 
to os.path.expandvars()

There are two problems here.
- Mismatch in between the doc strings of the different implementation of 
expandvars and the "official" os.path.expandvars documentation.
- the ntpath and dospath implementations are buggy when compared to 
their comments/docstrings.

About the first problem, the inconsistency created some time ago in 
between the different implementations tasks makes it difficult to choose 
a solution. Everyone will probably agree that all the platform specific 
implementations of expandvars should have the same functionality. The 
one that should be taken over will probably need to be announced by the 
BDFL.

Some rule which should not have let this here happen, and on which I 
believe we all will agree on:
Same interface=same documentation->same functionality

To implement either copy paste exactly the same expandvars definition 
from one platform to another (NT, DOS, POSIX).
Alternatively somehow rather arrange that when there is no specific 
implementation for the platform, a "default" python implementation is 
used on the os.path level.

To maximize the fruits of my small work, I would of course prefer that 
the version below becomes the standard and that the Library 
documentation get updated.

To be complete, shall the documentation remain unchanged (which will 
probablz be chosen) and the implementation of dos and nt gets adapted 
(copied from posix). But I really feel its docstring and its 
documentation should be in line with the rest of the implementations.

For the second problem - as of now a real bug whatever we decide, I 
wrote within this comment (hereafter) a new expandvars version which 
fits the docstring documentation of dospath.py and the comments of 
ntpath.py. Sorry you will be getting no patch from me at the moment 
since sourceforge's anonymous CVS access does not like me. Please note 
that my version borrows alot from the posixpath.py implementation and my 
changes are the ones of a python amateur who is open to critic.

#expandvars() implementation
_varprog = None
_findquotes = None
def expandvars(path):
     """Expand paths containing shell variable substitutions.
     The following rules apply:
         - no expansion within single quotes
         - no escape character, except for '$$' which is translated into '$'
         - ${varname} is accepted.
         - varnames can be made out of letters, digits and the character 
'_'"""
     global _varprog, _findquotes
     if '$' not in path:
         return path
     if not _varprog:
         import re
         _varprog = re.compile(r'\$(\w+|\{[^}]*\}|\$)')
         _findquotes = re.compile("'.*?'")
     quoteareas = []
     i = 0
     while 1:
         quotearea = _findquotes.search(path, i)
         if not quotearea:
             break
         (i, j) = quotearea.span(0)
         quoteareas.append((i, j))
         i = j
     i = 0
     while 1:
         m = _varprog.search(path, i)
         if not m:
             break
         i, j = m.span(0)
         insidequotes=None
         for (quotebegin, quoteend) in quoteareas:
             if quotebegin < i and quoteend > i:
                 insidequotes=1
                 break
         if insidequotes:
             i = j
             continue
         name = m.group(1)
         if name[:1] == '$':
             path = path[:i] + '$' + path[j:]
             i = i + 1
         else:
             if name[:1] == '{' and name[-1:] == '}':
                 name = name[1:-1]
             if os.environ.has_key(name):
                 tail = path[j:]
                 path = path[:i] + os.environ[name]
                 i = len(path)
                 path = path + tail
             else:
                 i = j
     return path

Regards, Ben.




From http  Sun Jul 20 19:30:28 2003
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 20 Jul 2003 16:30:28 -0700
Subject: Possible use of Python for a voting machine demo project -- your feedback requested
References: <P9DSa.111436$Io.9552373@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <bff6jb$e8goe$1@ID-67890.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <7xk7acai97.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

"Ulrich Petri" <ulope at gmx.de> writes:
> "Alan Dechert" <adechert at earthlink.net> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
> news:P9DSa.111436$Io.9552373 at newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
> 
> Sorry but why on earth you dont just print that on paper and let people make
> their crosses where they want?

In the past there has been a lot of trouble with manual ballot
systems, because people can't understand the instructions, the ballots
get printed incorrectly, stuff like that.  You might remember the big
mess in the 2000 US presidential election, that revolved around such
problems.  Choosing the US President turned out to mostly be a battle
between lawyers over which ballots to count rather than about what the
voters wanted, and a lot of the legal decisions were made according to
the political leanings of the particular judges.  The ballots
themselves didn't get a thorough tabulation until long after the
January inauguration and people disagree about how to intepret the
results even to this day.

US elections are also different than elections in most other countries
because a lot of different issues get voted in them.  Rather than just
choosing one of a bunch of different parties like in a parliamentary
system, we vote separately for (potentially) the President, Senator,
Congressional representative, Governor of the state, Lieutenant
governor, Attorney General, Mayor of the town, members of the local
school board, ballot initatives on whether to collect an extra tax on
soda bottles, on whether to build a new highway somewhere, and so on
and so on.  Dozens of different things, all in one election.  Counting
ballots by hand would require reading off from each ballot all the
separate votes on each of these issues.  It's not like in France or
Canada (I have no idea about Germany) where there's basically just one
question to vote on.



From news at exultants.org  Mon Jul  7 05:48:21 2003
From: news at exultants.org (Van Gale)
Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 09:48:21 GMT
Subject: FYI:  pyBoards.com
In-Reply-To: <3F04E609.2010500@dadsetan.com>
References: <191e20c8.0307031711.42d4e46b@posting.google.com> <3F04E609.2010500@dadsetan.com>
Message-ID: <3F094141.9020604@exultants.org>

Behrang Dadsetan wrote:
> Does anyone know about message board systems written in python?
> 
> Ben.

I don't know of any polished ones, but there are a few for Zope/Plone. 
I don't have any links immediately handy other than 
(still-in-planning-stage?) Ploneboard:

http://plone.org/Members/tesdal/PloneboardWiki/FrontPage

There's also a minimal feature one called qxbb that I think is linked 
from the Quixote site.

Van




From pythonguy at Hotpop.com  Sun Jul 20 11:26:46 2003
From: pythonguy at Hotpop.com (Anand Pillai)
Date: 20 Jul 2003 08:26:46 -0700
Subject: Volunteers need more visibility (was Re: www.python.org hacked?)
References: <5cf68ce0.0307141017.1f3fe18e@posting.google.com> <3F12FA18.B04B400E@engcorp.com> <bev3dj$f15$1@panix2.panix.com> <3F131F69.8FD9B8DD@engcorp.com> <bfcn3v$glv$1@panix1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <84fc4588.0307200726.6464d9e@posting.google.com>

I would be very interested in this. I have a 24 hr internet connection
at my home on cable modem, and I am interested in learning more about
web site designs.

I could use a tip or two in improving my own home page apart from
helping
the community :-)

The problem is that I am in India. If that is no problem, I would like
to volunteer for this task.

Do let me know what I can do.

Thanks

~Anand
http://members.lycos.co.uk/anandpillai

aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) wrote in message news:<bfcn3v$glv$1 at panix1.panix.com>...
> In article <3F131F69.8FD9B8DD at engcorp.com>,
> Peter Hansen  <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:
> >
> >Thanks then to Aahz, Skip, Thomas, and anyone else involved.  I think we
> >should find a place to give more visible credit to the many people
> >involved in handling with such things.  I had no idea so many people
> >who regularly contribute here were also the ones who step in to resolve
> >such problems, or who manage the day-to-day updates and additions.  
> >And obviously this is a very distributed effort, unless you all happen
> >to be roommates. ;-)
> 
> Nope, we're even on separate continents.
> 
> >To add to the workload then :-), but also perhaps to help inspire 
> >additional people to volunteer and share the load, I suggest adding a 
> >reasonably prominent page to www.python.org with a quick summary of who 
> >helps run the site, or other community efforts, and perhaps something
> >like a one-sentence bio to give a bit more of a face to some of the
> >lesser known folks.
> 
> Enh.  Maybe, but I'm too tired/busy to think about it.  What I suggest
> is that anyone who has an interest in how the web site is set up join
> the site design list at
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pydotorg-redesign
> 
> (This is a discussion list, not a list for the people doing the
> maintenance work.)



From bokr at oz.net  Thu Jul 17 11:07:42 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 17 Jul 2003 15:07:42 GMT
Subject: hex to signed integer
References: <vhbq0kr6ftvr0e@corp.supernews.com> <mailman.1058409374.25147.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bf6e3u$d71$0@216.39.172.122>

On Wed, 16 Jul 2003 20:13:20 -0600, Steven Taschuk <staschuk at telusplanet.net> wrote:

>Quoth Tom Goulet:
>> My question basically is:  What is the opposite of the following?
>> | "%08X" % -1
>
>Here's one way, very like what you already have:
>
>    def hex2signed(s):
>        return struct.unpack('!i', binascii.unhexlify(s))[0]
>
>(This will not be the inverse of '%08x' % n in Python 2.4, when
>'%x' % -1 will produce '-1', but I think it does what you want.)
>
Not that this helps 1.5.2-2.4 compatibility, but I
was hoping the signed analogue of 0[xX][0-9A-Fa-f]+
(i.e., [01][xX][0-9A-Fa-f]+  with leading 1 for negatives)
would be available for 2.4.

IMO '-'+hex(abs(x)) really stinks as a hex representation of a negative number x ;-)

 >>> -2**31
 -2147483648L
Oops, is that a wart/buglet BTW?

 >>> int(-2**31)
 -2147483648

 >>> hex(int(-2**31))
 '0x80000000'

with the new format,'1x80000000' would be the way to write int(-2**31) in hex
and '0x80000000' would be +2**31 (which would be internally promoted to long
on 32-bit-integer machines). Other examples

-1 => 1xF # maybe extended (like 0x1 -> 0x0001), i.e., 1xFFFF has same integral value.
-2 => 1xE
-8 => 1x8
-9 => 1x7
-15 => 1x1
-16 => 1x0 # or 1xF0 or 1xFF...F0
-17 => 1xEF

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From deets_noospaam at web.de  Sun Jul 27 16:35:52 2003
From: deets_noospaam at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 22:35:52 +0200
Subject: multithreading-problem
References: <bg0ubo$ujq$00$1@news.t-online.com> <3f243632$1@nntp0.pdx.net>
Message-ID: <bg1d38$m0o$01$2@news.t-online.com>

> The problem is that your lambda expression looks up "i" at function
> evaluation time (when target is called), not when you assign the
> target function for the thread.

Ah, ok. That makes sense. Where do I find this curry-function, only in the
book? It appears not to be a standard function.

Regards, Diez



From bokr at oz.net  Sat Jul  5 18:26:47 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 5 Jul 2003 22:26:47 GMT
Subject: Calculating Year, Month and Day of Life
References: <be72ph$k60$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <be74tp$pi4$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <be7a10$6b8$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <be7jb7$mcs$0@216.39.172.122>

On Sat, 05 Jul 2003 15:51:58 -0400, hokiegal99 <hokiegal99 at hotmail.com> wrote:

>hokiegal99 wrote:
>
>> hokiegal99 wrote:
>> 
[...]
>
>Once again, I'm making progress on my own. Here's where I stand now:
>
>----------------------
>from time import *
>local = localtime()
>
>y = input("Enter the year of birth: ")
>m = input("Enter the month of birth: ")
>d = input("Enter the day of birth: ")
>	
>age = y,m,d
>print "You are", local[0] - age[0], "years", local[1] - age[1], "months"
>-----------------------
>
Looks like you're enjoying yourself, so I won't interfere too much ;-)

You might want to look at the calendar module that comes with python
if you want to get age as exact total number of days or day of week on birth date, etc.:

    http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/module-calendar.html

Also, you might want to consider providing for re-try in a function,
and using raw_input instead of input(), e.g.,

    def getymd(prompt):
        while 1:
            try:
                return int(raw_input(prompt))
            except ValueError, e:
                print '    Error:', e

    y = getinp("Enter the year of birth: ")
    m = getinp("Enter the month of birth: ")
    d = getinp("Enter the day of birth: ")

Of course, you could validate y,m,d integer values and retry the date entry as a whole too.

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From mis6 at pitt.edu  Tue Jul 29 12:44:19 2003
From: mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato)
Date: 29 Jul 2003 09:44:19 -0700
Subject: while (assignment):
References: <slrnbicopb.6gh.sybrenUSE@sybren.thirdtower.com>
Message-ID: <2259b0e2.0307290844.6cbcad85@posting.google.com>

Sybren Stuvel <sybrenUSE at YOURthirdtower.imagination.com> wrote in message news:<slrnbicopb.6gh.sybrenUSE at sybren.thirdtower.com>...
> Hi there,
> 
> Is it possible to use an assignment in a while-loop? I'd like to do
> something like "loop while there is still something to be read, and if
> there is, put it in this variable". I've been a C programmer since I
> was 14, so a construct like:
> 
> while info = mydbcursor.fetchone():
> 	print "Information: "+str(info)
> 
> comes to mind. Unfortunately, this doesn't work. Is there a similar
> construct in python?
> 
> Sybren

First answer: DON'T DO THAT!!

Second answer: http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/202234

 ;)

      Michele



From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Sun Jul 13 14:38:29 2003
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 14:38:29 -0400
Subject: Windows XP - Environment variable - Unicode
References: <3f0e77fc@epflnews.epfl.ch> <vgvtb26kob5035@news.supernews.com> <3F10795B.9000501@v.loewis.de> <vh27ooiajenv87@news.supernews.com> <m33chakd25.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <vh2tlpbo492o6d@news.supernews.com> <bert0r$o6$01$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <vh39p68juklsf8@news.supernews.com>

"Martin v. L?wis" <martin at v.loewis.de> wrote in message
news:bert0r$o6$01$1 at news.t-online.com...
> John Roth wrote:
> > Good point. That does make it somewhat harder; the routine
> > would have to precompute both versions, and store them with
> > both standard strings and unicode strings as keys.
>
> That doesn't work. You cannot have separate dictionary entries
> for unicode and byte string keys if the keys compare and hash
> equal, which is the case for all-ASCII keys (which environment
> variable names typically are).

Ah, so.

John Roth
>
> Regards,
> Martin
>





From intentionally at blank.co.uk  Sun Jul 13 09:24:03 2003
From: intentionally at blank.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 14:24:03 +0100
Subject: anything like C++ references?
References: <000301c348c7$3c501980$21795418@dell1700> <mailman.1058050638.14404.python-list@python.org> <jf22hvotj4n0q5tpkg627e3jv61norf93n@4ax.com> <3F11106A.65FDA8F2@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <iqm2hvs77lhe1m71v9b579070khbf0uv0a@4ax.com>

On Sun, 13 Jul 2003 00:55:22 -0700, Erik Max Francis <max at alcyone.com>
wrote:

>Tom Plunket wrote:
>
>> IMHO the variable binding discussion doesn't answer the question,
>> it just provokes more questions.  :)
>
>But the answer to those questions is usually something ending with,
>"Look, Python just doesn't handle variables the same way C++ does."  :-)

And my traditional answer to that is... "yes, and the way that Python
handles variables is definitely a wart."

One of the few things I hate about Python is that mutable objects are
implicitly shared using a reference system whereas immutable objects
are not. It is unnecessarily confusing and error prone.

A system where all objects are copied unless a reference type is
explicitly applied (and with an assignment operators recognising
references on the LHS by default and assigns to the object rather than
the reference, though with an extra one which overwrites the
reference) seems much more logical to me. It even seems 'Pythonic' to
me. But it is much closer to C++ references than current Python
system.




From camelo at esss.com.br  Tue Jul  8 14:48:30 2003
From: camelo at esss.com.br (Marcelo A. Camelo)
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 15:48:30 -0300
Subject: Embedding as scripting engine
Message-ID: <009f01c34581$86a0aac0$0d00000a@esss.com.br>

If you're using c++, take a look at boost::python, a fantastic 
tool that can save you a lot of work when it comes to write the 
bindings.

I would seriously consider extending instead of embedding. 
I've done both and extending is, IMO, the way to go.

http://twistedmatrix.com/users/glyph/rant/extendit.html has some 
good points on the subject. I second to all arguments presented 
there.

--camelo

-----Original Message-----
From: python-list-admin at python.org [mailto:python-list-admin at python.org]
On Behalf Of ?lfur Kristj?nsson
Sent: ter?a-feira, 8 de julho de 2003 07:51
To: python-list at python.org
Subject: Embedding as scripting engine


Python... a great language, no doubt. And the abillity to be able to
extend it with C/C++ code, fantastic. But has anybody been able to
successfully embed Python in their application to use it as a scripting
language of sorts?

I am in the process of writing a game and from the documentation and
word of mouth gathered that Python would be just the thing for the
scripting part. And sure enough it is easy enough to run Python code
from C/C++. However, in order to be make it do something actually useful
for my game it would be handy to be able to pass in anything besides the
basic data types (strings, numerics) such as either an instance of or a
pointer to a gameobject. What I want to be able to do is something like
this:

GameObject go;

Py_Initialize()
...
PyObject* po = GameObject2PyObject(go);
...
result = PyObject_CallObject(func, "O", po );
...
go = PyObject2GameObject(result);

Theres alot of documentation and discussion out there that suggests that
this should be possible but noone seems to tell you how it's actually
done. Am I just missing something blatantly obvious?

Thanks
//ulk
-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list





From skip at pobox.com  Wed Jul  2 10:09:11 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 09:09:11 -0500
Subject: Meerkat script suddenly fails: output format changed?
In-Reply-To: <stsMa.363572$3n5.142228@news2.central.cox.net>
References: <stsMa.363572$3n5.142228@news2.central.cox.net>
Message-ID: <16130.59271.792007.980887@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    Steve> server.meerkat.getitems(). Printing out the list of items
    Steve> confirms this, with what I can only describe as a
    Steve> somewhat-unexpected output:

    Steve> {'description': "Senator Kennedy's new inaccessible web site. On writing for
    Steve> the web. The Python path module. The art", 'title': 'In brief: Superbowl
    Steve> Sunday'}
    ...

Looks like a Meerkat bug.  Have you contacted O'Reilly about it?  Not only
is the output of a "python" search odd, the links for such odd searches just
point back to the Meerkat front page.

Skip




From h.b.furuseth at usit.uio.no  Fri Jul  4 14:02:59 2003
From: h.b.furuseth at usit.uio.no (Hallvard B Furuseth (nospam nospam))
Date: 04 Jul 2003 20:02:59 +0200
Subject: How to get CGI request-URL
Message-ID: <HBF.20030704ty6d@bombur.uio.no>

How can I get the URL the user typed (except the part after '?') with
the cgi module?

I expect the 'Host:' HTTP header + os.environ['SCRIPT_NAME'] would do
it, but I don't see how to find the Host header.  The www server has
several names, so I can't just use the default host name.

-- 
Hallvard



From ulope at gmx.de  Wed Jul  2 12:58:58 2003
From: ulope at gmx.de (Ulrich Petri)
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 18:58:58 +0200
Subject: undo tab
References: <3F02E7D5.4060401@gmx.net> <bduq2n$114jav$1@ID-67890.news.dfncis.de> <3F02ECF0.105@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <bdv30k$11hrqh$1@ID-67890.news.dfncis.de>

"Tom" <llafba at gmx.net> schrieb im Newsbeitrag news:3F02ECF0.105 at gmx.net...
> Hi,
>
> it doesn't work with any editor that I tried. The one I use on a regular
> basis is the standard python IDLE. Sometimes I also use the editor of
> pythonwin and Boa-Constructor.
>
> Maybe you can just give me a general hint how you do it and which editor
> you use. That would probably also help.
>
> Thank you, Tom.
>

I use UltraEdit-32. There it works with Shift-Tab.

Ciao Ulrich





From woooee at yahoo.com  Thu Jul  3 15:41:14 2003
From: woooee at yahoo.com (Curly Joe)
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 12:41:14 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Good code patterns in Python
Message-ID: <20030703194114.9833.qmail@web20511.mail.yahoo.com>

Andrew Bennetts wrote:

> 
> if cond:
> x = special_val
> else:
> x = some_val
> 
> can be "read" more-or-less directly into English:
"if the condition is
> true, then 'x' is set to 'special_val'; otherwise,
'x' is set to
> 'some_val'".
> Saying "'x' is set to 'some_val'. Now, if some
condition is true, 'x' is
> set to 'special_val'" is counter-intuitive to my way
of thinking.
> 
> That said, I can readily recognise both idioms
(despite having a slight
> preference for one form), so it's really a
non-issue...

It is mostly a non-issue, and excuse me if I am
stating the obvious, but we have to be careful about
setting the default to special_val or some_val.  The
code depends on what we want to do when the inevitable
new type of data is silently introduced.  In very
general terms, we want to include what we want - as
the above code does, not exclude what we don't want -
as in the original post.  That way, new data is not
included, whereas it would be if we had excluded.  To
belabor the point, suppose we have the following code:
.if MALE :
.    male += 1
.else :
.    female += 1

instead of
.if not FEMALE :
.    male += 1
.else :
.   female += 1

These both work the same way until someone adds a
check box for "I prefer to not state my gender".  The
file gets updated with this new type, and we then run
our summary program.  In the first code example, it is
counted as female, and in the second, it is counted as
male.  This is the main reason, as far as I know, that
we use the "if exception: else: general" format.  And
if we have had our toes stepped on a few times, we
quit lying in our programs and state
.if MALE :
.    male += 1
.else :
.    not_male += 1

since that is all we really know because we didn't
explicitly test for female.  Again pardon me if I am
taking up a lot of space with an issue that most don't
care about.



__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
http://sbc.yahoo.com




From max at alcyone.com  Fri Jul 18 01:06:54 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 22:06:54 -0700
Subject: null pointer exceptions
References: <pan.2003.07.18.04.32.08.409676@nothing.bom.gov.au>
Message-ID: <3F17806E.3B9B4F75@alcyone.com>

Tennessee James Leeuwenburg wrote:

> I have a class which includes adding an ImageIcon. If the required
> graphic
> resource isn't present, there is a NullPointerException. Java doesn't
> care
> - the straight Java program handles it internally and gets on with
> life.
> But when I include it from Python, it explodes.

A java.lang.NullPointerException is just an exception like anything
else.  Can't you just catch it?

max at oxygen:~/tmp% cat NullCaster.java
import java.lang.*;

public class NullCaster
{
    public static void main(String[] args)
    {
        Object nullObject = null;
        String nullString = (String) nullObject;
        nullString.length();
    }
}
max at oxygen:~/tmp% javac NullCaster.java
max at oxygen:~/tmp% jython
Jython 2.1 on java1.4.1 (JIT: null)
Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import java.lang
>>> import NullCaster
>>> try:
...  NullCaster.main([])
... except java.lang.NullPointerException, e:
...  print 'oops:', e 
... 
oops: java.lang.NullPointerException

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ Wretches hang that jurymen may dine.
\__/  Alexander Pope



From lehrig at t-online.de  Fri Jul 18 01:45:59 2003
From: lehrig at t-online.de (lehrig)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 07:45:59 +0200
Subject: scanf string in python
References: <bf7ut5$vf8$03$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <bf81ih$nea$06$1@news.t-online.com>

lehrig wrote:

> I have a string which is returned by a C extension.
> 
> mystring = '(1,2,3)'
> 
> HOW can I read the numbers in python ?

Now I have done it like this:
  tmp = mystring[1:-1]
  tmplist = string.split(tmp,',')
  x = int(tmplist[0])
  y = int(tmplist[1])
  z = int(tmplist[2])

But there should be a more convenient solution.



From tl_news at nexgo.de  Wed Jul 30 02:21:09 2003
From: tl_news at nexgo.de (Tino Lange)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 08:21:09 +0200
Subject: Thank you developers for 2.3
References: <aOIVa.8149$yv1.7974@nwrddc02.gnilink.net>
Message-ID: <hsoeivkife4csksjlni21t4ieu9dmd95jg@4ax.com>

On Wed, 30 Jul 2003 05:35:02 GMT, David Lees
<abcdebl2nonspammy at verizon.net> wrote:

>Flawless install and it ran my very simple minded (try not to laugh) 
>nested loop integer arithmetic benchmark twice as fast as 2.2.3
>version 2.3      5.04 sec
>version 2.2.3    9.77 sec


Hi!

By the way: What was/is the speed with 2.1.x on the same system?

Cheers,

Tino





From vivek at cs.unipune.ernet.in  Mon Jul 28 08:25:42 2003
From: vivek at cs.unipune.ernet.in (vivek at cs.unipune.ernet.in)
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 17:55:42 +0530
Subject: How to get success/failure in case of thread
Message-ID: <20030728175542.A23857@cs.unipune.ernet.in>

Hi all,
  I am trying to learn using threads  in python. But the main problem I am 
facing is how to check whether the function called using a thread succeeded or
failed. like when I call:
  import thread
  thread.start_new_thread(my_func,(args,))

here my_func will return true/1 on success and false/0 on failure. How can I
check whether the function failed/succeeded ???

TIA and Kind Regards
Vivek Kumar




From bokr at oz.net  Fri Jul 25 20:09:28 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 26 Jul 2003 00:09:28 GMT
Subject: looping through a file
References: <3eaf6668$0$1030$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au> <bfs0ec$eq9$1@news.iucc.ac.il>
Message-ID: <bfsgro$39k$0@216.39.172.122>

On Fri, 25 Jul 2003 22:29:15 +0200, Adam <efkw at fawekm.com> wrote:

>Psybar Phreak wrote:
   (Sorry, your original post seems out of sight, so I'm answering this one)

>> hi all - ive just started with python (after having done java and c) and am
>> having a little bit of trouble with the script.  Im using as a login script.
>> 
>> There's a users.dat file in the format
>> user1
>> user1password
>> user2
>> user2password
>> ... etc
>> 
>> at the moment - the code i work, only checks the first and second lines (ie.
>> details of user1).  but it appears that python doesn't have a do... while...
>> until loop.
>> 
>> 
>> can anyone help?
>> 
>> thanks!!
>> 
>> Ive attached the appropriate part of the code i have working
>> 
>> -------------------------------
>> 
>> #!/usr/local/bin/python
>> 
>> import cgi, string
>> 
>> form = cgi.FieldStorage()
>> 
>> if form.has_key('usernameField') and form.has_key('passwordField'):
>>          users_username = string.strip(form['usernameField'].value)
>>          users_password = string.strip(form['passwordField'].value)
>> 
>> InFile = open('users.dat', 'r')
<nit>
   inFile = file('users.dat')  # file replaces open in newer versions, and 'r' is default
   ^--(unconvential to capitalize unless name of "constant" (all caps) or class (first or mixed caps))
</nit>
>>
UIAM, the rest can be done with just this (untested!):
 
   while 1:
       file_username = string.strip(InFile.readline()) # assumes first line is username
       file_password = string.strip(InFile.readline()) # assumes every username followed by password
       authorized = file_username == users_username and file_password == users_password
       if authorized or not file_username: break       

<nit>
(I assume you're using an old version, or you could use s.strip() instead of string.strip(s))
</nit>

    
>> file_username = string.strip(InFile.readline())
>> file_password = string.strip(InFile.readline())
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> authorised = 0
>> 
>> while file_username and file_password:
>>        if file_username == users_username:
>>               if file_password == users_password: # correct
>>              authorised = 1
>>       break
>>               else:                               # login matched but not
>> password
>>                     file_username = InFile.readline()
>>              file_password = InFile.readline()
>>        else: # neither match
>>               file_username = InFile.readline()
>>               file_password = InFile.readline()
>> 
>> 
>use the readline method. take advantage of the fact that readline 
>returns an empty string when it reaches EOF, and do:
>while(line):
>	line=readline
>

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From shannon at news.widomaker.com  Fri Jul  4 23:08:33 2003
From: shannon at news.widomaker.com (Charles Shannon Hendrix)
Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 23:08:33 -0400
Subject: Collective memory (was: Good code patterns in Python)
References: <mailman.1057083728.8224.python-list@python.org> <vg88va53uha8e@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <hff5eb.e9h.ln@escape.shannon.net>

In article <vg88va53uha8e at corp.supernews.com>, Cameron Laird wrote:

> Maybe youngsters don't realize this.
> 
> One monotonous but unremitting argument that Python inspires
> is about the wisdom of its white-space-significance (WSS).
> Modern programmers might not realize how strongly old-timers
> associate WSS with early FORTRAN and COBOL (as we capitalized
> them then), and how unpleasant some of those memories are.
> *That*, I assume, is why WSS discussions become as heated as
> they do.


The problem with Python is that its use of indentation is not the same
as COBOL or FORTRAN.  Apples and Oranges.

Those languages just had an arbitrary format, but it was specific and
easy to catch.

Python uses it for actually determining the logic in your program, which
IMHO is dangerous.

    if <something>
        <work>
        <more work>
        <add numbers>

Is <add numbers> part of the if statement, or did someone with different
tab settings from the author make a mistake and align it accidentally?

One really funny problem was when I guy reformatted his Python code,
around 15K lines of it, and basically unindented *ALL* of the code to
column 1.  It was the only recoverable copy of the code too.

He had to read the entire program line by line to recreate the logic.

The thing that bothers me though is I have found indent-related bugs in
Python code that no one knew about.  The code still ran, but some people
had obviously made some bad assumptions about the logic and indented
it wrong, changing the nature of the program.

I know a lot of people disagree, but I really think whitespace should
not determine flow-control in a program.


-- 
Ah... you gotta love it when your ISP switches to a SPAMMING newsfeed.
Sigh...



-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----



From vm_usenet at yahoo.com  Thu Jul  3 17:41:26 2003
From: vm_usenet at yahoo.com (vm_usenet)
Date: 3 Jul 2003 14:41:26 -0700
Subject: A possible bug in python threading/time module?
References: <mailman.1057158184.4899.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c09aca51.0307031341.6f51cc3@posting.google.com>

> If you run "enough" threads, chances are high you'll eventually run into a
> platform thread bug on any platform -- but into different platform bugs on
> different platforms.  You didn't say which OS or platform thread library you
> were using, and those are probably the only things that matter.
> 
> Here's a simplified and generalized minor rewrite of the above, with a
> comment about what happens under Win2K and 2.3b2.  I've got no interest in
> chasing it down, since it's hung in the bowels of a Windows DLL and there's
> no evidence of a Python bug:
> 
> """
> import time
> import threading
> 
> # One thread hung at the end on Win2K at N == 2011.
> # No problem if N < 2011.
> N = 2011
> sem = threading.Semaphore(N)
> 
> class MyThread(threading.Thread):
>     def __init__(self):
>         threading.Thread.__init__(self)
>         sem.acquire()
> 
>     def run(self):
>         time.sleep(5)
>         sem.release()
> 
> for i in range(2*N):
>     MyThread().start()
> """
I tried it on Windows 2000 and XP.
I guess it could be a platform-specific bug, but it still disturbs me
because I later programmed the same thing in C - and it worked
perfectly. It's a long-shot, but I guess somewhere the bug is caused
due to a misuse by the python runtime (or perhaps an inefficient use)
of the platform-specific threading facilities...

The



From jubafre at brturbo.com  Thu Jul 17 14:48:47 2003
From: jubafre at brturbo.com (jubafre at brturbo.com)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 15:48:47 -0300 (BRT)
Subject: xml.sax in py2exe
Message-ID: <10185335.1058467727506.JavaMail.nobody@webmail1.brturbo.com>

I want a binnary file to my aplicattion, but py2exe don't  match the xmll.sax module.

the py2exe shows this errors:

warning: py2exe: ***************************************************************
**********
warning: py2exe: * The following modules were not found:
warning: py2exe: *   xml.sax
warning: py2exe: *   win32con
warning: py2exe: *   pywintypes
warning: py2exe: *   os.path
warning: py2exe: *   hexdump
warning: py2exe: *   win32com.client.gencache
warning: py2exe: *   win32api
warning: py2exe: ***************************************************************
**********

but in python if i import the module, its works very well!

Python 2.2.2 (#37, Oct 14 2002, 17:02:34) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import xml.sax
>>> xml.sax
<module 'xml.sax' from 'C:\PYTHON22\lib\site-packages\_xmlplus\sax\__init__.pyc'

why???

Juliano Freitas

From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Sat Jul 12 07:06:33 2003
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 07:06:33 -0400
Subject: Python - if/else statements
References: <pan.2003.07.11.19.34.16.330762@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <vgvqtg9tgpi85c@news.supernews.com>

Is there anything consistent about either the version of
Python these people are using, or the version of KDE?
The reason I ask is that there are a lot of different
versions out there, and while the Python maintainers
are very good, some of them have subtle bugs. Likewise
for KDE, and for various distributions.

I also second Bengt's comment about tabs. Outlook
Express, for one, eliminates them so your code example
is simply unreadable. The python standard coding style
is to use 4 spaces for each level of indentation. Python
aware editors supply them automatically when you hit
the tab key.

John Roth

"dmbkiwi" <dmbkiwi at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:pan.2003.07.11.19.34.16.330762 at yahoo.com...
> I am new to this group, and relatively new to python programming, however,
> have encountered a problem I just cannot solve through reading the
> documentation, and searching this group on google.
>
> I have written a theme in python for the superkaramba theme engine on kde
> (see http://netdragon.sourceforge.net - if you are a kde/linux user, it is
> a great visual applet engine).  I have uploaded it to www.kdelook.org for
> others to download and use, however, some users are having an issue, which
> to me seems to be very strange.
>
> Basically the problem is that their version of python is ignoring an
> if/else statement, and I can't understand why.  Over 3000 people have
> downloaded the theme, and only 3 people have identified this problem.  The
> relevant portion of code is:
>
> def meterClicked(widget, meter, button):
> #print "meterclick"
> global dayshow, daypicrem, ddon, ddcon, buttonpressed
> if (meter == mainpic) and (button == 1):
> if ddcon == 0:
> if ddon == 1:
> deleteDayDetail(widget, dayshow)
> karamba.redrawWidget(widget)
> createCurrentDetail(widget)
> karamba.redrawWidget(widget)
> else:
> deleteCurrentDetail(widget)
> else:
> for i in range(0,5):
> if (meter == daypicrem[i]) and (button == 1) and (dayshow != i):
> #print "buttonpressed: day" + str(i)
> if ddon == 1:
> deleteDayDetail(widget, dayshow)
> karamba.redrawWidget(widget)
> elif ddcon == 1:
> deleteCurrentDetail(widget)
> karamba.redrawWidget(widget)
> createDayDetail(widget, i)
> karamba.redrawWidget(widget)
> dayshow = i
> #print dayshow
> break
> if (meter == daypicrem[i]) and (button == 1) and (dayshow == i):
> if ddon == 1:
> deleteDayDetail(widget, dayshow)
> karamba.redrawWidget(widget)
> elif ddcon == 1:
> deleteCurrentDetail(widget)
> karamba.redrawWidget(widget)
> dayshow = i
> #print dayshow
> break
> buttonpressed = 1
>
>
> What these users are experiencing is that this portion of code is being
> processed, and evaluating all if statements as true, however, as you can
> see, they cannot all be true each time this function is called.  Their
> versions of python also ignore the else construct.
>
> Can anyone shed any light on what might be going on with these users?
>
> Matt





From bignose-hates-spam at and-benfinney-does-too.id.au  Sun Jul 27 17:17:10 2003
From: bignose-hates-spam at and-benfinney-does-too.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: 28 Jul 2003 07:07:10 +0950
Subject: changing the List's behaviour?
References: <mailman.1059338081.22895.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrnbi8hg5.1mm.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>

On Sun, 27 Jul 2003 22:41:43 +0200, meinrad recheis wrote:
> i am very annoyed by the List's index out of bouds exception
> it forces me to complicate my code by adding length checking

No, it forces you to ensure your code doesn't try to access a
non-existent list element.

Or, it forces you to catch the exception and deal with it.

> i want to change the List so that it returns None if the index for
> accesssing list elements is out of bound.

This would prevent you from distinguishing between "the index was out of
range" and "the element at that index is the None object".

> i am not very experienced in python, so i ask you for suggestions.

Take a good look at the code that is accessing non-existent index
values.  Why is it doing so?  Do you really want a list (ordered
collection, with a fixed set of keys) or are there cases where you want
a dict (unordered collection, arbitrary set of keys)?

-- 
 \     "I know you believe you understood what you think I said, but I |
  `\         am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I |
_o__)                                  meant."  -- Robert J. McCloskey |
Ben Finney <http://bignose.squidly.org/>



From jjl at pobox.com  Thu Jul 31 14:17:49 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 31 Jul 2003 19:17:49 +0100
Subject: looking for design pattern name
References: <bg1lt6$81g$1@slb2.atl.mindspring.net> <glMVa.2873$Jz2.2213@nwrdny02.gnilink.net> <bg976j$s7$1@slb4.atl.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <87adaud0he.fsf@pobox.com>

"Andrew Dalke" <adalke at mindspring.com> writes:

> Raymond Hettinger:
> > What happens in Bond() if O1 and O2 have different parents?
> 
> Raises an exception - TypeError seems best.  Here's the code
[...]

Yuck.  Doesn't the standard library reserve TypeError for occasions
where the, um, type of an argument is not appropriate?  'Type' does
generally means the interface rather than type(object), but that's
quite different to what you're checking.  Checking whether atoms have
different parents surely isn't a type check.  Why not ValueError or
your own exception (possibly derived from ValueError)?

[.........]
> Err, I tangented, didn't I.
[...]

"Verbing weirds language", to quote Calvin.

:-)


John



From grante at visi.com  Thu Jul 10 15:10:36 2003
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 10 Jul 2003 19:10:36 GMT
Subject: Business model for Open Source - advice wanted
References: <246a4e07.0307100613.fc2fc50@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3f0dba2c$0$179$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>

In article <246a4e07.0307100613.fc2fc50 at posting.google.com>, Frank Millman wrote:

> However, any support of the software from a business or accounting
> perspective will be available to registered users only. For a monthly
> support fee (I am thinking of a range of $50-100 per month - let me
> know if it is too high or too low)

What do competing products charge for support?

> Here are a couple of pitfalls that I can see, and my possible
> solutions to them. Firstly, a user will be able to terminate his
> support contract at any time, and the software will continue to
> function. Therefore some may be tempted to stop paying until they have
> a problem, then pay for a month, get an answer, and stop again. My
> thinking is that 3 months must be paid up front to activate a support
> contract.

I'd suggest doing support a year at a time.  Most of the
commercial SW for which I've bought support did it that way. If
I were a customer, I sure wouldn't want to have to go through
the hassle of getting you a check cut every month.  One place I
work calcualted that the cost of processing a purchase order or
cutting a reimbursement check was $50-$100.

> These are my thoughts so far. Any comments - suggestions,
> warnings, personal experiences - will be much appreciated.

I don't know much about accounting systems, but if they're
anything like manufacturing/inventory systems, almost every
installation is heavily customized.  Charging for doing the
customization is probably a good source of revenue.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  ALFRED JARRY! Say
                                  at               something about th' DEATH
                               visi.com            of DISCO!!



From giles_brown at hotmail.com  Fri Jul  4 04:41:36 2003
From: giles_brown at hotmail.com (Giles Brown)
Date: 4 Jul 2003 01:41:36 -0700
Subject: Question about "exec in globals, locals"
Message-ID: <57de9986.0307040041.553ff329@posting.google.com>

I do not understand why the following code produces
    NameError: name 'FirstClass' is not defined
when both a global and local dict are passed into exec, but
not when only a global dict is passed in.

I seek enlightenment!

Thanks,
Giles Brown

<python_code>

source = """
class FirstClass:
    pass
class SecondClass:
    References = [FirstClass]
"""

# Case - 1
myglobals = {'__builtins__' : None, '__name__': None}
exec source in myglobals

print "Global names are:", myglobals.keys()

# Case - 2
myglobals = {'__builtins__' : None, '__name__': None}
mylocals = {}

exec source in myglobals, mylocals

print "Global names are:", myglobals.keys()
print "Local names are:", mylocals.keys()

</python_code>



From martin at v.loewis.de  Wed Jul 16 00:14:25 2003
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-15?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 16 Jul 2003 06:14:25 +0200
Subject: Solaris 9, problem building Python 2.1.1
References: <20030716003454.GA2860@dave@alana.ucc.usyd.edu.au> <mailman.1058317709.21173.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m31xwrnm5a.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Heiko Wundram <heikowu at ceosg.de> writes:

> Seems like your lib(open)ssl is missing, or invalid. 

More likely, it is located in /usr/local/lib. Set LD_LIBRARY_PATH.

Regards,
Martin



From gumuz at looze.net  Thu Jul 17 04:16:09 2003
From: gumuz at looze.net (Guyon Morée)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 10:16:09 +0200
Subject: IMAP examples
References: <3f15cf46$0$45389$1b62eedf@news.wanadoo.nl> <cb035744.0307162203.6b058ee1@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3f1661b9$0$13799$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net>

Maybe it is an idea to include existing examples like the ones from the
cookbook in the pyhton documentation. This will enhance the documentation
quite a bit I think.


> If my english was better I would love to help improve the python
> documentation, most modules in the standard libraries lack good
> examples how to *use* them with just a simple description.  And a
> short motivation for the design of a module if possible like "just
> copied the C API" or "Because of efficiency ..." or "We use a class
> framework here because ...".  A gigantic task.  The PSL book by effbot
> is great but it's a book.  And it needs a new version.





From davidcfox at post.harvard.edu  Wed Jul 23 17:35:36 2003
From: davidcfox at post.harvard.edu (David C. Fox)
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 21:35:36 GMT
Subject: Design tool
In-Reply-To: <3F1EFDA6.2060808@nospam.com>
References: <3f1e985d$0$236@hades.is.co.za> <xqxy8yprres.fsf@cola2.ca.boeing.com> <bKBTa.22352$On.2762320@twister.nyc.rr.com> <bfmr7c$im1$1@nemesis.news.tpi.pl> <3F1EFDA6.2060808@nospam.com>
Message-ID: <HcDTa.128958$N7.17518@sccrnsc03>

max wrote:
> 
>> All work on Windows (ArgoUML is Java application).
>>
> I meant Argo does. dia does not, AFAIK
> 

It depends what you mean by works.  There is a Windows version, and it 
runs, but printing was extremely buggy the last time I tried it.  Of 
course, I think that was v. 0.7, so maybe it's been improved since then.

David




From harry.g.george at boeing.com  Mon Jul 14 10:03:17 2003
From: harry.g.george at boeing.com (Harry George)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 14:03:17 GMT
Subject: A few beginning questions
References: <3f129a8a$1@mail.hmgcc.gov.uk>
Message-ID: <xqx65m59pei.fsf@cola2.ca.boeing.com>

"richardc" <richardc at hmgcc.gov.uk> writes:

> Ive just started playing with Python and have a couple of questions.
> 
> Im looking for an agument parsing library (from the command line), Ive come
> across optik and argtools.  What other ones are there are any of them any
> good, is there a 'standard' lib for doing this.
> 
> Also how should I '#define' magic numbers in Python.  I spent ages looking
> around for a 'define' statement or anything that will allow me to create a
> constant value 'object'.  Am I missing something very obvious ?
> 
> Also, what 'IDE/editor' do people recomend for MAC OSX, so far Ive found
> 'Hydra' to be the best as it works on plain files and has Python syntax
> highlighting... what else is there and are any of them any good.
> 
> Has nobody written an editor/IDE in Python with wxWindows so that it runs on
> all platforms ?
> 
> Many thanks
> 
> Rich
> 
> 

1. args: I use getopt, which does the job.  The idiom is:
if __name__ == '__main__':
    opts,pargs=getopt.getopt(sys.argv[1:],'hvd',
                 ['help','version','debug',
                  'bb='])
    for opt in opts:
        if opt[0]=='-h' or opt[0]=='--help':
            print modname+": version="+__version__
            usage()
            sys.exit(0)
        elif opt[0]=='-v' or opt[0]=='--version':
            print modname+": version="+__version__
            sys.exit(0)
        elif opt[0]=='-d' or opt[0]=='--debug':
            debug_p=1
        elif opt[0]=='--bb':
            opt_b=opt[1]

2. #define: Use ALLCAPS.  I put these all in a globals section at the
    top of the module in the order: docstring, imports, globals,
    utilities, common functions, classes, "main", and "if
    __name__=='__main__':"

    Also, if you have global variables, we use leading "g_"
    (e.g,"g_myglobaldata"), so they are easy to find if encountered in
    the body of the module.

-- 
harry.g.george at boeing.com
6-6M31 Knowledge Management
Phone: (425) 294-8757



From printers at sendme.cz  Mon Jul  7 15:53:12 2003
From: printers at sendme.cz (A)
Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 21:53:12 +0200
Subject: Is there any solution  in PYTHON?
Message-ID: <3F09EBC8.357.AB1425E@localhost>

Hi,
I have a program that downloads some web pages. Sometimes there is a poor internet 
connection and my script freezes( hangs) and does not download ALL pages.
Is there any solution how to test if the program works and if not re-start it from the point 
where it stopped?
Or simply how to download ALL pages eventhough there is a timeout connection( can be 
of any value)?
Thanks for help
Ladislav






From cidolfas at rpgclassics.com  Fri Jul 25 10:19:16 2003
From: cidolfas at rpgclassics.com (Daniel Orner)
Date: 25 Jul 2003 07:19:16 -0700
Subject: CGI "download" prompt?
References: <77dd287a.0307240632.40c6c309@posting.google.com> <3f205f06$0$49115$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <77dd287a.0307250619.7c2ec441@posting.google.com>

> Try setting the Content-Type: header to something other than text/html,
> such as:   application/octet-stream
>
> I think that any browser that respects the mime type will prompt to save
> a file with this mime-type.
>
> YMMV, especially with IE, because that thing tends to try to act
> 'smart' and looks at the file extension to determine
> what to do with the file. It will likely just display it....
>
> --Irmen

    Hmm... this doesn't seem to work. The problem is, I think, that once I
include a "Location:" header to redirect the browser, the Content-type
doesn't apply to the place I'm redirecting to. However, I don't know of any
way to include a header in a plain file that isn't a CGI file (and that's
what I want, because I want to keep the filename). >_<

    Does anyone else have any ideas?

    Thanks,

--Daniel



From max at alcyone.com  Wed Jul  2 18:14:48 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 15:14:48 -0700
Subject: arbitrary long integer aritmetics
References: <bdtv1s$22dm$1@otis.netspace.net.au> <mailman.1057140372.20399.python-list@python.org> <bWDMa.86671$R73.10539@sccrnsc04>
Message-ID: <3F035958.FADD276E@alcyone.com>

Russell Reagan wrote:

> "Fredrik Lundh" <fredrik at pythonware.com> wrote
> 
> > >>> 2147483647 * 2147483647 * 2147483647
> > 4611686014132420609L
> >
> > (note the trailing L).
> 
> Oddly, I get a different answer than you. What's the problem?

Probably because he pasted in an incomplete transcript.  The calculation
he shows is multiplying it twice, not three times:

>>> x = 2147483647L
>>> x**2
4611686014132420609L
>>> x**3
9903520300447984150353281023L

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ Divorces are made in Heaven.
\__/  Oscar Wilde



From nbdy9 at hotmail.com.nospam  Wed Jul 30 14:37:45 2003
From: nbdy9 at hotmail.com.nospam (Mark)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 14:37:45 -0400
Subject: How to get Windows physical RAM using python?
In-Reply-To: <bg90lh$bkp$1@news3.bu.edu>
References: <bg90lh$bkp$1@news3.bu.edu>
Message-ID: <bg92o2$onr$1@news3.bu.edu>

OK, How to check the amount of Windows physical RAM using python?

Mark wrote:
> Thanks.
> 




From edreamleo at charter.net  Mon Jul 14 12:38:29 2003
From: edreamleo at charter.net (Edward K. Ream)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 11:38:29 -0500
Subject: anygui questions
Message-ID: <vh5n44l8o89f00@corp.supernews.com>

Does anyone have any experience with anygui with a non-trivial app?

It would be nice to host my app using a native toolkit, and I am worried
that native tree widgets won't be as flexible as the Tk.Canvas widget that
my app presently uses.  It hardly seems like progress to use the anygui
canvas widget. Can anyone suggest a way around this?

Other concerns:  How can anygui make sense out of different event models?
Same question for widget options.  Maybe the best way of summarizing my
concerns is this question: how close is anygui to the least common
denominator?

Anything else I should know about anygui?

Thanks.

Edward
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Edward K. Ream   email:  edreamleo at charter.net
Leo: Literate Editor with Outlines
Leo: http://webpages.charter.net/edreamleo/front.html
--------------------------------------------------------------------





From abigail at abigail.nl  Fri Jul 11 07:08:44 2003
From: abigail at abigail.nl (Abigail)
Date: 11 Jul 2003 11:08:44 GMT
Subject: Collective memory
References: <mailman.1057083728.8224.python-list@python.org> <vg88va53uha8e@corp.supernews.com> <3F09F136.6060000@srv.net> <3F0B2857.6EE3A30F@ev1.net> <1fxw51u.2b4m6zc39wulN%proto@panix.com>
Message-ID: <slrnbgt6ls.ab5.abigail@alexandra.abigail.nl>

Walter Bushell (proto at panix.com) wrote on MMMDC September MCMXCIII in
<URL:news:1fxw51u.2b4m6zc39wulN%proto at panix.com>:
++  Charles Richmond <richmond at ev1.net> wrote:
++ <Snip>
++ > int  *p, x, y;
++ > 
++ > then:
++ > 
++ >     y = x/*p;
++ > 
++ > is quite different from:
++ > 
++ >     y = x / *p;
++ > 
++ > The first way, "/*" will begin a comment...the second way,
++ > you get the integer "x" divided by the integer pointed to by "p".
++  
++  Ouch!! That is one reason code coloring is *important*.

Nope. That's a reason why code colouring is evil. If you write code,
and it isn't clear what you mean without the use of code colouring,
you did something wrong. Your code shouldn't rely on a specific code
colouring scheme to be understandable.

All in my opinion of course.


Abigail



From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sat Jul 19 19:46:15 2003
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 19 Jul 2003 19:46:15 -0400
Subject: properties + types, implementing meta-class desciptors elegantly?
References: <mailman.1058532630.7342.python-list@python.org> <mailman.1058629890.30475.python-list@python.org> <bfc82v$hm8$0@216.39.172.122> <mailman.1058654317.6488.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bfcl87$6jb$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <mailman.1058654317.6488.python-list at python.org>,
Mike C. Fletcher <mcfletch at rogers.com> wrote:
>
>Nope, I'm trying to make meta-classes which have rich properties.  The 
>particular project is a plug-in system, where the classes (the 
>metaclass-instances) want to have all sorts of rich metadata associated 
>with them in a way which meshes with the rest of the system (i.e. using 
>a descriptor-based introspection mechanism).
>...

Keeping in mind that I'm really not following this discussion all that
closely (because metaclasses give me headaches), are you trying to make
a *metaclass* that has properties or a *metaclass instance* (i.e. a
class) that has properties?
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

This is Python.  We don't care much about theory, except where it intersects 
with useful practice.  --Aahz



From sross at connectmail.carleton.ca  Thu Jul  3 12:08:27 2003
From: sross at connectmail.carleton.ca (Sean Ross)
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 12:08:27 -0400
Subject: OT: Genetic Algorithm Recipe Bug Fix
Message-ID: <JwYMa.5801$eF3.719843@news20.bellglobal.com>

Hi. For anyone who has chosen to use my Genetic Algorithm recipe
(http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/199121), I'd like
to make you aware of a fairly serious oversite on my part - I left out the
division part of the standard deviation routine! That's been fixed on the
recipe page, but not on my personal web site - which will be done when I
post the new version I'm building for a study I'll be working on this fall.
I'd like to apologize for any difficulties and/or confusion this error may
have caused you. Thanks for your time.
Sean






From tomas at fancy.org  Sat Jul 12 16:49:38 2003
From: tomas at fancy.org (Tom Plunket)
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 13:49:38 -0700
Subject: Assigning to global variables from within a function
References: <Xns93B6ED0BFE4F9t45fs6vve@130.133.1.4>
Message-ID: <nts0hv8c49enp005nkc9gnvaqug9hddps1@4ax.com>

Psymaster wrote:

> I want to do this:
> 
> int= 0
> 
> def change_int():
>     	int += 1
> 
> change_int()

You shouldn't do that, 'int' is a built-in name.  Additionally,
you need to tell the function that the variable is a global one.

my_int = 0
def change_int():
    global my_int
    my_int += 1

change_int()

You'll find that it works fine.

-tom!



From dave at pythonapocrypha.com  Tue Jul 15 10:07:55 2003
From: dave at pythonapocrypha.com (Dave Brueck)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 08:07:55 -0600
Subject: anything like C++ references?
In-Reply-To: <hub7hvgjjm0prt5p3jn92npmb3gf777mr9@4ax.com>
References: <000301c348c7$3c501980$21795418@dell1700> <bf09r0$fn9$0@216.39.172.122> <hub7hvgjjm0prt5p3jn92npmb3gf777mr9@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <200307150807.55839.dave@pythonapocrypha.com>

On Tuesday 15 July 2003 02:18 am, Stephen Horne wrote:
> >Why don't you respect the possibility of a language that is *designed* to
> > deal with entities and relationships in ways you are not used to? ;-)
>
> Basically, because I've seen too many threads started by confused
> people who've made a mistake because of this, and because I've made
> the mistake an annoying number of times myself.

But the problem is that you're inferring from those threads that this is a 
widespread problem. It is not. Compared to the total number of people using 
Python, this issue isn't brought up that often (especially compared to, say, 
"can I make an EXE of a Python app?").

Also, in *every* case it is someone "thinking in C" rather than Python. Once 
they reset their brains to the way Python does things, then the problem goes 
away, if they had a problem with it in the first place. This is not the same 
thing as people "just dealing with it" or forcing themselves to think in and 
odd way but a slightly *different* way.

At most I'd concede that this is a documentation problem, but nothing more - 
for many, many people the way Python does it works terrifically well. I just 
don't see how having to adjust your thinking a little when using a different 
language implies the new language isn't doing the right thing, especially 
when the new way works so well in practice.

> It's not just about theory - it's about peoples intuitions about how
> things should work.

Obviously it can't match everyone's intuitions. Besides, intuitions are 
heavily influenced by past experience, so there do exist times when it's best 
to go against the grain in that respect. The "problem" here is that newcomers 
to Python often make an incorrect assumption. The moment they let go of that 
assumption, everything is fine.

Guido has a pretty good track record as a language designer, so when you see 
something in Python that is different than previous languages you've used it 
might be wart, but it might also be a place where there's good reason for 
being different. This is an example of the latter - in real programs this 
approach works well and is quite powerful and elegant. As a result I'm more 
comfortable with languages that work this way and less so with those that 
don't.

> A goal of Python is to be a 'very high level language'. Another is to
> 'do the right thing'.

If so, then in the opinion of most users it *is* succeeding at both goals. The 
theoretical or mathematical parallels may be interesting, but they're  
irrelevent because (for a large number of users, probably the overwhelming 
majority) the way references and binding are handled in Python works very, 
very well in practice, plain and simple.

> > If you
> >read "variable" where you should be reading "alias"
>
> If I should be reading "alias", then how come the Python manuals say
> "variable"?

Perhaps because most people don't have a hangup about it? And perhaps because 
the few who do get over it rather quickly? Seriously - it's such a tiny 
thing.

-Dave




From vm_usenet at yahoo.com  Sun Jul  6 14:04:15 2003
From: vm_usenet at yahoo.com (vm_usenet)
Date: 6 Jul 2003 11:04:15 -0700
Subject: A possible bug in python threading/time module?
References: <mailman.1057347547.21819.python-list@python.org> <c09aca51.0307050856.2ed130f9@posting.google.com> <3F071424.520DC852@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <c09aca51.0307061004.5608e81c@posting.google.com>

Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message news:<3F071424.520DC852 at engcorp.com>...
> vm_usenet wrote:
> > 
> > Right after I read Tim's recent post, I went to the python CVS and
> > noted that Tim refered to me as an 'anonymous coward'. Well Tim, I
> > just wanted to say that I appreciate you being part of the community,
> > too.
> 
> See http://www.computerhope.com/jargon/a/ac.htm, definition #2.  This
> is a fairly well-known term for someone who, like you, for some 
> strange reason does not want to use their name in discourse with 
> others (such as those who are helping them, hint, hint) online.
> 
> > I hope to see more mature people working on the Python project than
> > Tim.
> 
> If you mean you want a greater number of mature people than just 
> Tim alone working on the Python project, then we can all agree and,
> fortunately, that is the current situation.
> 
> If you meant something else, I suggest you learn more about Python
> history and about those who have really made Python what it is before
> you make comments of that nature.
> 
> -Peter

Ok, Ok...

I beg the forgiveness of everyone whom I insulted. I wasn't aware of
the
term 'Anonymous Coward' and so I interpreted it as an insult. 

Tim - I'm sorry and I won't be making that mistake again.

And on that opportunity, I'd really like to admit that you indeed did
your work perfectly.

I love the Python language very much and I went through hell making my
organization adopt it as its formal prototyping and scripting
language.

Keep up the good work, everyone!



From curty at free.fr  Wed Jul 30 11:07:44 2003
From: curty at free.fr (Curt)
Date: 30 Jul 2003 15:07:44 GMT
Subject: Python..Tkinter..PYTHONPATH..
References: <f0b58f95.0307291054.4bc43c26@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <slrnbifnu3.uo.curty@einstein.electron.net>

On 29 Jul 2003 11:54:16 -0700, q wrote:
 
> I have a Linux RH8.0 system. I installed Python2.2 from the 8.0 ISO
> updates. I installed the Tcl 8.3.3 from the Tcl site... I also
> installed the tcllib 1.0.
 
> My goal is to get viewcvs to run. However, when I check to see where
> the system thinks things are, the PYTHONPATH env var is blank.
 
> echo $PYTHONPATH --> produces nothing....
 
It produces nothing on my system either, because I haven't set that
environment variable.  I haven't needed to.  The installation-dependant 
default works fine.

> So, can anyone tell me what it should say? Can anyone shed any light
> as to how this var is populated, and why it might be blank....? Can
> anyone suggest what file I need to alter/should modify to have this
> properly set whenever a user logs into the system....?
 
Well, my understanding as a complete and utter oldie but newbie is that
it should point to where your python modules are located.  It has the
same syntax as the shell PATH variable.

If your shell is bash, you can set it for all users in /etc/profile,
well, at least you can in Slackware.

export PYTHONPATH=/path/to/modules:/path/to/other/modules



From bokr at oz.net  Tue Jul 29 14:04:29 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 29 Jul 2003 18:04:29 GMT
Subject: pretty printing graphs
References: <mailman.1059412614.26573.python-list@python.org> <bg4ksi$spe$0@216.39.172.122> <mailman.1059487009.20097.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bg6cvd$grr$0@216.39.172.122>

On Tue, 29 Jul 2003 08:53:27 -0500, John Hunter <jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu> wrote:

>>>>>> "Bengt" == Bengt Richter <bokr at oz.net> writes:
>
>    Bengt> How about (I added a name in the first node line for
>    Bengt> debugging, and boxing): (code follows output). Not tested
>    Bengt> much ;-)
>
>Thanks Bengt - that looks great.  You really should be on the payroll.
>
Email me for particulars on how to send money ;-))

>I won't have time until tonight to wrap my head around your code, but
>I think I'll add a to_dot method to the Node class which generates dot
>output, so I can use your ascii output for day-to-day stuff, and then
>go to dot for publication quality.
If you have an interactive window with tty font with box characters, it could
look pretty nice for "day-to-day", I think (though requiring a little more logic
for choosing boxing and connection line characters).
>
>Thanks all for the suggestions,
You're welcome. Be aware that I just copied your original post and
vimmed at it until something emerged. It's pretty brute force, recomputing
a lot, etc etc. And not very well factored. OTOH, it seems to work, within its limits ;-)
It could use some sanity checks etc. though.

BTW, also in this thread there is a version with connector lines
called pptree.py, in case that is of interest.

I think to make a real tool, I would design differently. Off hand IWT using a random access
2-dimensional mutable character array as a page "canvas" to paint on would eliminate
some of the constraints on the layout that are inherent in the way I did it in pptree.
(I.e., hierarchical box model where any box may be contain a centered smaller
box connected to one row of boxes underneath it, and any of those may similarly either
be a single box or contain a smaller top box with its row of children, etc., so each box
is only a matter of one top single box and one row of child boxes, whatever the content of
the child boxes. Then its just a matter of dealing with the different sizes.)

Also more abstract element definitions and drawing primitives could allow for subclassing
for different output media like ascii, tty/boxchars, tkinter, postscript, etc.

I'm curious as to what your actual text blocks represent...

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From postmaster at 127.0.0.1  Sat Jul 12 23:22:30 2003
From: postmaster at 127.0.0.1 (David McNab)
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 15:22:30 +1200
Subject: new in town
References: <AeVPa.445271$Vi5.11496890@news1.calgary.shaw.ca> <2a897f11.0307121139.21470fbb@posting.google.com> <EM_Pa.420940$ro6.10135135@news2.calgary.shaw.ca>
Message-ID: <pan.2003.07.13.03.22.29.943248@127.0.0.1>

On Sat, 12 Jul 2003 21:07:48 +0000, Elaine Jackson paused, took a deep
breath, then came out with:

> Thank you.

Elaine,

Firstly, the McMillan Installer suggested to you is indeed very good, and
in nearly all cases creates fully standalone packaged apps for windows. If
ever it fails (rare cases), you can also try py2exe. Getting it to create
independent runtime packages on Linux could be problematic, but this is
less of an issue since any decent Linux system has Python installed or
available on tap.

Secondly, I can't see why some people accused you of being vague and
flippant. Your original enquiry was clear enough to me - you want to take
your python code and turn it into a form where it can be deployed on any
target system without bothering or confusing users by making them install
a python environment. A very clear and reasonable ask.

Do please persist with python, and don't let any pedantry on this group
get to you. The Python community on the whole is very friendly and
supportive. Add to this the marvel of a pain-saving language that Python
is, and you'll be feeling totally at home in a short time.

You can also get very fast answers to your questions in the IRC channel
#python on irc.freenode.net. Most people there are very welcoming of newer
python converts.

One caveat - please be warned that if you spend more than a little time
with Python, you'll develop a discomfort and dislike of other languages to
the point where you won't want to program in anything else. For instance,
I switched from PHP to Python 6 months ago. I used to like PHP, but I
can't stand it now. But maybe that's a *good* thing.

Have fun in your travels.

Cheers
David

> 
> Wayne Pierce <wayne at mishre.com> wrote in message
> news:2a897f11.0307121139.21470fbb at posting.google.com...
> | "Elaine Jackson" <elainejackson7355 at home.com> wrote in message
> news:<AeVPa.445271$Vi5.11496890 at news1.calgary.shaw.ca>...
> | > Can Python be compiled? If so, how? (I have the 2.2 version of the
> interpreter.)
> | > TIA for any and all helps
> |
> | If you want to be able to distribute your Python apps without the end
> | user needing a Python interpreter take a look at the following:
> |
> | http://www.mcmillan-inc.com/install1.html
> |
> | Wayne




From bdesth.nospam at removeme.free.fr  Sun Jul 27 18:23:26 2003
From: bdesth.nospam at removeme.free.fr (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 00:23:26 +0200
Subject: Static typing
In-Reply-To: <20030727.141111.1139901474.9957@demon.mindhog.net>
References: <LvdUa.905$DU.696@fe12.atl2.webusenet.com> <3f218ef1$0$27926$626a54ce@news.free.fr> <3f219c8d$1@nntp0.pdx.net> <lWAUa.25680$Gw4.21886@fe06.atl2.webusenet.com> <3f23ae06$0$21093$626a54ce@news.free.fr> <20030727.141111.1139901474.9957@demon.mindhog.net>
Message-ID: <3f244eff$0$21092$626a54ce@news.free.fr>

Michael Muller wrote:
> In article <3f23ae06$0$21093$626a54ce at news.free.fr>, "Bruno Desthuilliers"
> <bdesth.nospam at removeme.free.fr> wrote:
> 
>>Michael Muller wrote:
>>Interface documentation may be obtained in others ways (docstring for
>>exemple).
> 
> 
> Yes, and that's the way that I do it now.  But the problem with this is
> that it's "non-binding": it doesn't impose any programmatic constraints.
> Because of this:
> 
> -   it's hard to enforce automatically (if you want to make sure that all
> programmers in your team are using the prescribed argument definition
> conventions, you have to parse all the docstrings)

It's a management problem, not a programming language issue.

> -  there is no global standard (I might use "name: type info" in my
> docstring, you might use "type name")

Idem.

> -  it is hard to guarantee that the documentation is in sync with the code
> (if you change the type expectations of a function, you can do so without
> changing the documented expectations)

Idem. If your programmers don't care about keeping doc in sync, you're 
in trouble whatever the language.

> -  it makes type errors less obvious (you end up getting an attribute
> error when you perform an operation on the value instead of a type error
> when you initially abuse the interface)  Although, I must say that this is
> surprisingly less of a problem in Python than one might expect.

Yep. Type errors are not the most common nor the most annoying bugs. If 
only declaring types three times was enough to get bug-free programs...

> 
>>And I'm not sure static typing would optimize anything, but not being a
>>Python (nor anything else) guru, I would not bet my hand on this... my 2
>>cents...
> 
> 
> In and of itself, static typing does not optimize anything.  In fact, it
> could slow things down because you suddenly have to do typechecks all over
> the place.
> 
> Static typing can be /used/  for optimizations because it allows for
> optimized forms of attribute access - 

Right.

> without it you must do dynamic name
> resolution at runtime.

Which is a Good Thing IMHO.

> For example, if you want to resolve a method name, you currently have to
> look up the method name in the object and its classes.  With static
> typing, since you know the type of the object at compile time, you can
> just reference it in a "vtable" (a virtual function table) associated with
> the object.
> 
> In short, static typing brings us one step closer to "python compiled to
> machine code".

Well... Objective C is compiled to machine code, and still has dynamic 
binding (not late binding as in C++), so static typing does not seem 
mandatory here.

Anyway, I personnally don't have a compelling need for Python being 
compiled into machine code, and just don't want to here about it if it 
implies static typing !-)

The only thing that could make sens to me would be a protocol-checking 
mechanism, and there are already some.

Bruno




From tgerla at outsourcefinancial.com  Mon Jul 14 16:34:27 2003
From: tgerla at outsourcefinancial.com (Tim Gerla)
Date: 14 Jul 2003 13:34:27 -0700
Subject: PyQT, Sharp Zaurus and color in the QTextBrowser
In-Reply-To: <slrnbh60lj.3jm.sybrenUSE@sybren.thirdtower.com>
References: <slrnbh60lj.3jm.sybrenUSE@sybren.thirdtower.com>
Message-ID: <1058214866.5032.1.camel@redwall.ofsloans.com>

> I just thought of something: what if the Z doesn't allow single quotes
> around the "color" attribute? I gave it a try, and replaced the text
> with:
> 
> <font color="#0000ff">&lt;me&gt;</font>: hello world
> 
> And it works!
> 

Very fun stuff. Someday I hope to have a Zaurus or similar device to
toy with. Anyway, to actually be on topic, "proper" HTML (XHTML 1.0,
and maybe HTML 4.0? I don't recall...) requires double-quotes to be
used. Single quotes are illegal. So, the Qt version your Zaurus is
using must be a little more strict.

-Tim





From bokr at oz.net  Fri Jul 18 17:40:20 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 18 Jul 2003 21:40:20 GMT
Subject: Co-routines
References: <g7xRa.305$fF.9914@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au> <Xns93BCA216469E7duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <bf9pg4$de0$0@216.39.172.122>

On Fri, 18 Jul 2003 14:57:35 +0000 (UTC), Duncan Booth <duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk> wrote:

><thewrights at ozemail.com.au> wrote in
>news:g7xRa.305$fF.9914 at nnrp1.ozemail.com.au: 
>
>> I have an application in which I want the users to be able to create
>> python functions:
>> 
>> def f1():
>>     print "1-1"
>>     print "1-2"
>>     print "1-3"
>> 
>> def f2():
>>     print "2-1"
>>     print "2-2"
>>     print "3-3"
>> 
>> and when my application runs, I want to execute these functions in
>> "lock-step", so that the output looks like:
>> 
[...]
>
[...]
>----- begin steplock.py -----
># Execute functions in steplock
[...]
>if __name__=='__main__':
>    test()
>----- end steplock.py -----
>
>-- 
>Duncan Booth                                             duncan at rcp.co.uk
>int month(char *p){return(124864/((p[0]+p[1]-p[2]&0x1f)+1)%12)["\5\x8\3"
>"\6\7\xb\1\x9\xa\2\0\4"];} // Who said my code was obscure?

OP:
From: <thewrights at ozemail.com.au>
Newsgroups: comp.lang.python
Subject: Co-routines
Lines: 63
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 23:07:36 +1000

SOLUTION:
From: Duncan Booth <duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk>
Newsgroups: comp.lang.python
Subject: Re: Co-routines
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 14:57:35 +0000 (UTC)
Organization: RCP Consultants
Lines: 248

Ok, I'm impressed ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From missive at frontiernet.net  Thu Jul 24 17:12:13 2003
From: missive at frontiernet.net (Lee Harr)
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 21:12:13 GMT
Subject: Trying to contact Lee Harr <missive@frontiernet.net>
References: <mailman.1058994517.30949.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrnbi0j0c.2ah0.missive@localhost.my.domain>

> Not sure why my email got bounced. If you read this please reply back so I
> can send you the appropriate documentation so I can get your help in finding
> out what's in the spider.Collection[i] name space.
> 

Best bet is to send mail to the list, I have not checked that
mailbox in about 2 years... probably why it's full.


> 
> Thank you for all your help. Sorry for the late response to your answer. I
> am not used to the python list and wasn't aware of such volume of posts that
> are generated on this emailing. List. To answer one of your question, no I
> am not familiar with Python, like I mentioned in my email I have been tasked
> to integrate verity enterprise search with our J2EE compliant app server. I
> am trying to pick up python but I still haven't caught up yet. I haven't
> been able to find a good reference book that deals with html embedded
> python. most books talk about generating html through python. Can you
> recommend a good book for that purpose. The book I picked up is titled Core
> Python Programming by Wesley Chow.
> 
> I am not sure if any API calls are being made. I am including the html doc
> for your reference
> 


I did not get this, and I don't really think I have time to read it.
I was just suggesting that it looked to me like the code you had was
not valid python, and it needed to be.




From pyth at devel.trillke.net  Fri Jul 25 12:41:58 2003
From: pyth at devel.trillke.net (holger krekel)
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 18:41:58 +0200
Subject: path module
In-Reply-To: <just-8DDA38.17221725072003@news1.news.xs4all.nl>; from just@xs4all.nl on Fri, Jul 25, 2003 at 05:22:17PM +0200
References: <1057651068.5348.386.camel@lothlorien> <20030708113219.H6906@prim.han.de> <mailman.1057686613.6463.python-list@python.org> <11234c14.0307211016.344d40bc@posting.google.com> <mailman.1059144006.6426.python-list@python.org> <just-8DDA38.17221725072003@news1.news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <20030725184158.O6906@prim.han.de>

Hello Just,

Just wrote:
>  holger krekel <pyth at devel.trillke.net> wrote:
> > I think it's convenient enough to use "str(path)" if passing a 'path' 
> > instance as a string somewhere.
> 
> If the path object has a __str__ method, apparently it should work 
> without explicit conversion. However, this seems to fail for me on OSX, 
> where an attempt is made to convert to unicode. Providing a __unicode__ 
> method doesn't help. But then again, I think we'd be fine if we add the 
> most used path-taking functions to the path object as methods. I can 
> even see adding some win-specific methods to it.

Yes, i think adding platform specific methods to a Path object makes sense.  
A friend and me started working on (local and subversion) Path 
implementations last week.  Currently a Path instance provides 
these "path-taking" methods 

    open  
    read
    write
    visit  (a recursive walker)
    listdir
    stat
    load/save (unpickle/pickle object)
    setmtime  (set modification time, uses os.utime)

apart from all the os.path.* stuff like 'exists', 'dirname' etc.  
Providing these "path-taking" methods on the Path object is very important 
because otherwise you'll have to convert back and fro for using those
os.* and os.path.* or builtin methods (which is evil).  

cheers,

    holger




From milyon at wp.pl  Thu Jul 10 06:27:09 2003
From: milyon at wp.pl (K)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 12:27:09 +0200
Subject: Odp: Newbie - No module named stdwin
References: <beh8d4$gnu$1@topaz.icpnet.pl> <3f0c5faf.172627925@news.blueyonder.co.uk>
Message-ID: <bejf32$3on$1@topaz.icpnet.pl>

but in visual basic 6 i have graphical Interface - in Python only text based
is that correct ?






From webmaster at nextmovetech.com  Mon Jul  7 23:56:45 2003
From: webmaster at nextmovetech.com (James Tan)
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 11:56:45 +0800
Subject: window wxpython programmer required...
Message-ID: <3f0a3f38_2@news.tm.net.my>

dear all,

We are looking for a wxpython programmer in building up a software for us.
Preferably in the valley of kl, malaysia.

We would like to know:
1. How do you charge?
2. How much will you charge for a software that takes in the duration of
1month?
H
3. How long have you been in the python development?
4. Are you familar with xrc, py2exe, wxpython and ms access database?

best regards,

James
IT Consultant
MercStudio Dot Com





From sholden at holdenweb.com  Tue Jul  1 23:53:51 2003
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 03:53:51 GMT
Subject: whitespace and ?asc()?
References: <3F02086D.9010300@ihug.co.nz>
Message-ID: <jHsMa.363617$3n5.82058@news2.central.cox.net>

"Ray Tomes" <rtomes at ihug.co.nz> wrote in message
news:3F02086D.9010300 at ihug.co.nz...
> Hi all
>
> I am totally new to python. On the whole I really like the design of the
> language and after just one day may be considered a convert.
>
> I was trying to find out the exact definition of whitespace so I went to
> look at strings.whitespace to find out which chars were whitespace, and
> found 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 32 which according to my ancient ascii chart are
> TAB, LF, VT, NP, CR, SPACE. Anyone know what NP = 12 is?
>
> Also, in trying to find the ASCII (or is it ANSI) values for characters I
> could not find the reverse function for chr() [in BASIC it is asc()]- can
> someone please tell me what reverses chr()?
>
> I had to do this yucky thing to decode whitespace ...
>
> import string
> x=string.whitespace
> for b in x:
>      for i in range(256):
>          if chr(i) == b:
>              print i
>
1: http://www.asciitable.com/

2: ord()

3: import string; print [ord(x) for x in string.whitespace]

You did pretty well to get the output you needed, though!

regards
--
Steve Holden                                  http://www.holdenweb.com/
Python Web Programming                 http://pydish.holdenweb.com/pwp/


>





From alanmk at hotmail.com  Fri Jul 11 06:27:49 2003
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 11:27:49 +0100
Subject: Embedding Python, threading and scalability
References: <mailman.1057884556.438.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3F0E9125.10185EB9@hotmail.com>

[Aahz]

>>...the way to scale Python in a threaded environment is to call out
>> to a C extension that releases the GIL.

Simon Wittber (Maptek) wrote:

> To write scalable applications in Python, one must write the
> 'scalabilty-required' parts n C.

Or Pyrex? Or Boost? 

Do either of these products release the GIL when control is
transferred to the C/C++ extensions?

> Does anyone else see this as a problem?

Comparatively, perhaps. But certainly less of a problem than writing
your entire program in C++, for example.

Perhaps easiest to write the whole thing in jython, if the jython free
threading claim is true? Ype? Aahz? I'd really like to know the truth
of the assertion that jython will utilise all processors in a
multi-processor box.

regards,

-- 
alan kennedy
-----------------------------------------------------
check http headers here: http://xhaus.com/headers
email alan:              http://xhaus.com/mailto/alan



From bogus at antispam.com  Sat Jul 19 17:26:34 2003
From: bogus at antispam.com (Alex)
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 17:26:34 -0400
Subject: Stopping a loop with user input. in curses
Message-ID: <pan.2003.07.19.21.26.34.776055@antispam.com>

Hello all,

I've written a small clock program in curses that I would
like to have end when someone presses 'q'. I've included the
code below. I'm *very* new to python so I apologize in advance if
this seems like a horribly obvious problem. I've spent all day
trying various structures but none of them have worked out.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Alex


#! /usr/bin/python

# Import curses module

import curses, time
stdscr = curses.initscr()

def theClock():
	
    # Define global colour scheme
    curses.init_pair(1, curses.COLOR_WHITE, curses.COLOR_BLUE)
	
    # Get the screen size
    max_y, max_x = stdscr.getmaxyx()
	
    # Calculate the clock position relative to the screen size
    clock_x = max_x - 28 
	
    # Draw the clock
    clockWindow = curses.newwin(3, 26, 1, clock_x)
    clockWindow.bkgd(' ', curses.color_pair(1))
    clockWindow.box()
    clockWindow.refresh()

    while 1:
        t = time.asctime()
        clockWindow.addstr(1, 1, t)
        clockWindow.refresh()
        time.sleep(1)


def main(stdscr):

    # Bring up the clock function

    theClock()

    # If 'q' is pressed, exit
    while 2:
    c = stdscr.getch()
    if c == ord('q'):
            curses.beep()
            break


if __name__ == '__main__':
    curses.wrapper(main)





From scpusenet at werbung.schabi.de  Fri Jul  4 07:16:17 2003
From: scpusenet at werbung.schabi.de (Markus Schaber)
Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 13:16:17 +0200
Subject: Apache mod_python and Sessions
Message-ID: <20030704131617.4b1a73ca.scpusenet@werbung.schabi.de>

Hi,

Does anybody know a module that works with Apache 1.3 mod_python and provides session tracking?

I tried pso, but this didn't work as it should. Running in mod_python gives me one session per server process, and the session data is not rewritten to disk. Explicitly calling session.save() (as stated in the doc) fails with the error message that a dictionary doesn't have the "save" attribute. Calling it as CGI sputs the log files with error messages about missing permissions.

The apache-provided mod_session seems to miss python bindings.

I tried to google, but only found perl modules (except the pso package that doesn't work.)


Does anybody know a working solution?

Thanks,
Markus



From fabien_arnaud at yahoo.fr  Tue Jul  1 20:29:50 2003
From: fabien_arnaud at yahoo.fr (Fabien)
Date: 1 Jul 2003 17:29:50 -0700
Subject: Python on Pocket PC (with graphics)
Message-ID: <c007a5d3.0307011629.421145b0@posting.google.com>

Hello,

I'm completly new on python and on Pocket PC ! I want to write an
application and plane to us python, but I need graphical display. If I
well enderstood, I will not find any port of TkInter on Pocket PC. Is
there a way to use the standard pocket PC API from python ? any web
site or book to start from without boriing anyone on this group ?

Thanks for the answer !

Fabien ARNAUD



From domma at procoders.net  Sun Jul  6 17:29:38 2003
From: domma at procoders.net (Achim Domma)
Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2003 23:29:38 +0200
Subject: Search for mapping solution
References: <be9t66$2otne$1@ID-47851.news.dfncis.de> <be9tnh$59n$03$1@news.t-online.com> <bea0fe$2otcq$1@ID-47851.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <bea4c3$c68$03$1@news.t-online.com>

"Markus Joschko" <jocsch at phreaker.net> wrote in message
news:bea0fe$2otcq$1 at ID-47851.news.dfncis.de...
> thanks it works. But maybe I can complicate the example a little bit
> (because in real world it's more complicated):
>
> What if I every list in lines has 20 or more entries and I have only the
> index number to access the name, e.g.
>
> lines = [['elem1','elem2','fred','elem3',.......;'elem
> 17','333','elem18','0.10'],[...],[...]]

I'm not sure, if I understand you right, but I think you could do it like
this:

nameIndex = 3
costs = {}
for item in lines:
    name = item[nameIndex]
    costs[name] = costs.setdefault(name,0)+float(item[-1])
print costs

This assumes, that the price is always on the last position. Depending on
your requirements there are differnt ways to write it more clearly:

nameIndex = 3
costs = {}
for name,price in [ (x[nameIndex],x[-1]) for x in lines) ]:
    costs[name] = costs.setdefault(name,0)+float(price)

Or something like that:

def priceIter(lines,nameIndex):
    for x in lines: yield x[nameIndex],x[-1]

costs = {}
for name,price in priceIter(lines,3):
    costs[name] = costs.setdefault(name,0)+float(price)

It depends on your situation, what's the best solution for you. Depending on
your control flow it might be convenient do something like this:

def createLinesIter(nameIndex,priceIndex):
    def priceIter(lines,nameIdx=nameIndex,priceIdx=priceIndex):
        for x in lines: yield x[nameIdx],x[priceIdx]

Now you could create special Iterators for your lists an pass them around:

TypA_Iter = createLinesIter(0,-1)
TypB_Iter = creaetLinesIter(3,7)

now you can pass these funtions around with your matching lines list:

def processLines(lines,linesIter):
    costs = {}
    for name,price in linesIter(lines):
        costs[name] = costs.setdefault(name,0)+float(price)
    return costs

And now for your first list:

lines = ....
costs = processLines(lines,TypA_Iter)

The examples are written from head, so there might be some typos. But they
should give you a hint on what's possible in python.

regards,
Achim






From skip at pobox.com  Sun Jul 20 12:20:12 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 11:20:12 -0500
Subject: "Pure Python" MySQL module like Net::MySQL
In-Reply-To: <bfddmi$7nk$1@eeyore.INS.cwru.edu>
References: <bfddmi$7nk$1@eeyore.INS.cwru.edu>
Message-ID: <16154.49468.497887.827235@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    Ravi> I did some googling, and found that there doesn't seem to be a
    Ravi> pure python MySQL communication module. There is one for perl
    Ravi> however, Net::MySQL.

This has benefits and disadvantages.  As the author points out, this lets
you connect to MySQL databases from systems to which the MySQL client
libraries haven't been ported.  On the other hand, the MySQL wire protocol
is probably not part of the official external interface, so the author has
to track changes to the protocol.

Skip




From andy at wild-flower.co.uk  Fri Jul  4 18:39:26 2003
From: andy at wild-flower.co.uk (Andy Jewell)
Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 23:39:26 +0100
Subject: print attitude
In-Reply-To: <A128D751272CD411BC9200508BC2194D018856FA@escpl.tcp.com.ar>
References: <A128D751272CD411BC9200508BC2194D018856FA@escpl.tcp.com.ar>
Message-ID: <200307042339.26727.andy@wild-flower.co.uk>

On Friday 04 Jul 2003 10:49 pm, Batista, Facundo wrote:
> One detail I found, don't now if it's ok:
>
> Python 2.1.1 (#4, Mar  8 2002, 12:32:24)
> [GCC 2.95.3 20010315 (release)] on sunos5
>
> >>> a = '?'
> >>> a
>
> '\xf1'
>
> >>> print a
>
> ?
>
> >>> l = ['?']
> >>> l
>
> ['\xf1']
>
> >>> print l
>
> ['\xf1']
>
>
> Is this OK?
>
> Why this different behaviour?
>
> Thank you!
>
> .	Facundo

Facundo,

Short answer: 

'?' is not in 7-bit ASCII, so python 'escapes' it, to it's hex value, when 
evaluating it.  ['?'] is a list, containing 1 string, and when displaying 
lists (and other containers), python displays the escaped contents, as this 
is the only way that 'makes sense'.

Long answer:

Remember, everything in Python is an Object, so...

>>> a=1 # and 'int' object, with the name 'a'

When you use print, it calls the __str__ method of the object you are 
printing, which returns the 'string representation' of the object's data:

>>> print a
1
>>> print str(1)
1

When you just 'evaluate' the expression on the python command-line, the 
__repr__ method of the object is called, which returns a 'quoted' string, 
that can be used to re-create the object with the same value.  For some types 
(integers and floats), str(n) == repr(n) - their string representation is the 
same as their quoted representation.  For other types (strings for instance), 
str(s) != repr(s)

>>> a
1
>>> repr(a)
1
>>> s="hello"
>>> print s
hello
>>> print str(s)
hello>>> ord("?")
UnicodeError: ASCII encoding error: ordinal not in range(128)

>>> print repr(s)
'hello'

If the object is a 'container' object - a list, tuple or dict, for example,  
their __str__ method returns the same as their __repr__ function: a string 
which can be used to recreate the object.  So when you ask python to print 
it, what you see is it's 'quoted' representation.  How else would you print a 
list? a dict?  It only makes sense to print the 'quoted' version in these 
cases.>>> ord("?")
UnicodeError: ASCII encoding error: ordinal not in range(128)


Ok - that covers a the mechanics, but what about your '?'?  Well, that's not a 
standard 7-bit ASCII character.  Python is '7-bit ASCII clean' - which means 
it ONLY uses characters 0-127 in program code.  Programs can manipulate any 
character code, but you can't write them in python /directly/:

(on my box i get this):
>>> ord("?")
UnicodeError: ASCII encoding error: ordinal not in range(128)

I notice you're using an older version of Python than me (2.1.1) - I believe 
this *does* allow coded over 127 (but I'm not sure of the rules).

Right, when you ask python to print a list like ['?'], it simply prints the 
'quoted' data in it data structure.  As '?' > chr(127), it 'escapes' it to 
it's hex value '\xf1'.

If I've got any of that wrong/inaccurate, I'm sure one of the Kindred will 
correct me :-)

hope that helps
-andyj




From manish.j at gmx.net  Fri Jul 25 08:58:48 2003
From: manish.j at gmx.net (Manish Jethani)
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 18:28:48 +0530
Subject: decimal to binary
In-Reply-To: <Dh9Ua.13488$Df5.327750@news1.tin.it>
References: <Dh9Ua.13488$Df5.327750@news1.tin.it>
Message-ID: <6_9Ua.3$gZ.73@news.oracle.com>

manuel wrote:

> How to convert a decimal to binary ?

def foo(i):
    b = ''
    while i > 0:
        j = i & 1
        b = str(j) + b
        i >>= 1
    return b

Maybe this is inefficient, but...

-Manish

-- 
Manish Jethani (manish.j at gmx.net)
phone (work) +91-80-51073488




From ajsiegel at optonline.net  Wed Jul 30 08:11:16 2003
From: ajsiegel at optonline.net (Arthur)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 08:11:16 -0400
Subject: Wrtiting AVI files with Python
Message-ID: <000501c35693$ae54f350$0c02a8c0@Arts>

JET asks:

>Does any one know if there is such a tool for
>Python or some libraries that I could import and use in my code?

I'd check out:

http://sourceforge.net/projects/ganim8/

Art




From theller at python.net  Mon Jul 28 09:46:41 2003
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 15:46:41 +0200
Subject: Can't compile, miss  library/modules ............... ?
References: <bg20tu$k29gj$1@ID-142885.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <wue2kblq.fsf@python.net>

"PythonMan" <o_otaotao at hotmail.com> writes:

> warning: py2exe: * The following modules were not found:
> warning: py2exe: *   SOCKS
> warning: py2exe: *   rourl2path
> warning: py2exe: *   ic
>
> when i compile btdownloadheadless.py of BitTorrent , justmsg is shown , the
> souce code should have no error , but why i get such error ? how get back
> this modules ? thx~~~

It's a warning, and the exe should work.



From irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl  Tue Jul 15 18:25:07 2003
From: irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 00:25:07 +0200
Subject: UDP client-server problem
In-Reply-To: <538fc8e.0307151318.12551933@posting.google.com>
References: <538fc8e.0307151318.12551933@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3f147f42$0$49112$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

WIWA wrote:

> The question is: when I add  "svrsocket.sendto(resultaat, (ip, port))"
> in the UDP server, my application closes while running. When I leave
> it away, it works fine. I really need this statement as the purpose is
> that a client sends sth to the server and the server sends back the
> time ticks.

It would have helped if you were more specific about: "closes while running"?
In my case (running your code) I get an exception in the server:


Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "server.py", line 44, in ?
     svrsocket.sendto(resultaat, (ip, port))
   File "<string>", line 1, in sendto
TypeError: sendto() takes exactly 3 arguments (2 given)


this pretty much tells you what's wrong. Your sendto() call is faulty.

The first argument in your case is of type <float> while it should be
a <string>. So try

     svrsocket.sendto(str(resultaat), (ip, port))

however, this triggers a loop in your code if your client is on the
same machine as the server (the server sends out a UDP packet to the
same port as it itself is listening on, on my machine, it gets back
its own UDP packet....)

HTH,
--Irmen de Jong






From nico at DUMPTHISfarumdata.dk  Tue Jul 29 03:16:48 2003
From: nico at DUMPTHISfarumdata.dk (Nico de Jong)
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 09:16:48 +0200
Subject: Collective memory
References: <mailman.1057083728.8224.python-list@python.org> <vg88va53uha8e@corp.supernews.com> <hff5eb.e9h.ln@escape.shannon.net> <3F082031.3010503@netscape.netNOTthisBIT> <bec993c8.0307080602.7d5d132e@posting.google.com> <beeln9$b63$8@bob.news.rcn.net> <n1tphvg2gtmjsl8j3rehh33ebhqkb91q2d@4ax.com> <n64civ0cqtsqsvpkr8fmlglg66p8pj56h7@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <CdpVa.2257$jO7.568@news.get2net.dk>

> Among the latter were two posters printed on [now I have forgotten the
> English word for this type of paper, but it has tractor holes along
> both sides, and is flimsy, and has horizontal perforations every now
> and then] paper, with a silk-screeened slogan advocating recycling on
> the supposedly blank side.

You are thinking of fanfold and/or leporello.
Leporello comes probably from the operette figure, who in a scene reads a
list of his masters "conquests", and as there are about 1000 names, he had
to fold it in some way.
Nice touch of folklore, I think

Nico




From djc at object-craft.com.au  Fri Jul 11 01:19:35 2003
From: djc at object-craft.com.au (Dave Cole)
Date: 11 Jul 2003 15:19:35 +1000
Subject: Securing 'pickle'
References: <pan.2003.07.11.01.20.47.998070@127.0.0.1> <mailman.1057889236.17205.python-list@python.org> <7xu19t21ap.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <m3el0xwsgo.fsf@ferret.object-craft.com.au>

>>>>> "Paul" == Paul Rubin <http://phr.cx at NOSPAM.invalid> writes:

Paul> Ian Bicking <ianb at colorstudy.com> writes:
>> A much easier way to secure your pickle is to sign it, like:
>> 
>> cookie = dumps(object) secret = 'really secret!'  hasher =
>> md5.new() hasher.update(secret) hasher.update(cookie)
>> cookie_signature = md5.digest()

Paul> That method is vulnerable to an "appending" attack against md5.
Paul> I'll spare the gory details, but you should call md5 through the
Paul> HMAC module to make the signature instead of using md5 directly.
Paul> HMAC is designed to stop that attack.

I have been googling for information on the "appending" attack against
md5 and cannot find anything that clearly describes it.  Do you have
any links handy?

- Dave

-- 
http://www.object-craft.com.au



From pedro.werneck at bol.com.br  Mon Jul 28 18:49:15 2003
From: pedro.werneck at bol.com.br (Pedro Werneck)
Date: 28 Jul 2003 15:49:15 -0700
Subject: Debugging Python ?
References: <mailman.1059409013.10134.python-list@python.org> <vian1bbfkogpa1@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <ef72fb2b.0307281449.6b144be7@posting.google.com>

I use:

if __debug__: print "bla, bla, bla..."

And I was just wondering if it's legal to define a "print" function...
isn't print a keyword ?



From icarroll at pobox.com  Sat Jul 12 16:46:51 2003
From: icarroll at pobox.com (W Isaac Carroll)
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 13:46:51 -0700
Subject: Assigning to global variables from within a function
References: <Xns93B6ED0BFE4F9t45fs6vve@130.133.1.4>
Message-ID: <3F1073BB.2020603@pobox.com>

Psymaster wrote:
> I want to do this:
> 
> int= 0
> 
> def change_int():
>     	int += 1
> 
> change_int()
> 
> but of course it doesn't work, Python thinks it is a local 
> variable and refuses to reference the global one. So what would 
> be a good way of doing this. Note that creating a new global 
> variable from within the function isn't convenient because the 
> function is intended to be used in loops.

First of all, remember that "int" is a built-in, so it's not a good idea 
to use it for another purpose.

Have you tried declaring i as a global?

     i = 0

     def change_i():
         global i
         i += 1

     change_i()

This doesn't make a new global variable, it just tells the compiler that 
the i referenced inside the function is the global i, even though it's 
being assigned to.

TTFN





From irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl  Sat Jul 12 16:42:06 2003
From: irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 22:42:06 +0200
Subject: Assigning to global variables from within a function
In-Reply-To: <Xns93B6ED0BFE4F9t45fs6vve@130.133.1.4>
References: <Xns93B6ED0BFE4F9t45fs6vve@130.133.1.4>
Message-ID: <3f10729d$0$49100$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

Psymaster wrote:

> I want to do this:
> 
> int= 0
> 
> def change_int():
>     	int += 1
> 
> change_int()
> 
> but of course it doesn't work, Python thinks it is a local 
> variable and refuses to reference the global one. So what would 
> be a good way of doing this. Note that creating a new global 
> variable from within the function isn't convenient because the 
> function is intended to be used in loops.

A function that modifies a global is generally considered bad
design (it has 'side-effects').

But if you really need to do this, just add a 'global' statement:

def change_i():
     global i
     i+=1


PS don't use 'int' for a name of your own, it is a builtin in Python.




From mday at apple.com  Thu Jul 31 16:27:22 2003
From: mday at apple.com (Mark Day)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 13:27:22 -0700
Subject: list indexing
References: <ec1162c7.0307311153.26d1b999@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <310720031327225125%mday@apple.com>

In article <ec1162c7.0307311153.26d1b999 at posting.google.com>, Matthew
<ruach at chpc.utah.edu> wrote:

> What I would like to
> know is if there is a way to get the index number of a list element by
> name. Sort of the inverse of the .index() method.
> 
> For example
> 
> list = ['this', 'is', 'a', 'list']
> for item in list:
>   if item = 'list':
>     print ????
> 
> 
> ???? Is where I want to be able to get the index number, in this case
> 3 from the list in a simple fasion.

If you're using Python 2.3, you can use enumerate() like this:

for index,item in enumerate(list):
    if item == 'list':
        print index

BTW: I'd suggest not using the name of a built-in class for your
variable "list".  Perhaps "mylist" or "words"?

-Mark



From paulpaterson at users.sourceforge.net  Fri Jul 25 22:11:05 2003
From: paulpaterson at users.sourceforge.net (Paul Paterson)
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 02:11:05 GMT
Subject: How safe is modifying locals()?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1059173799.17228.python-list@python.org>
References: <BDcUa.100193$XV.6037947@twister.austin.rr.com>	 <MvCdnTkcoJNP_7yiXTWJjw@comcast.com>	 <WMdUa.100343$XV.6044659@twister.austin.rr.com> <mailman.1059173799.17228.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ZqlUa.102243$XV.6096809@twister.austin.rr.com>

Ian Bicking wrote:

> On Fri, 2003-07-25 at 12:28, Paul Paterson wrote:
> 
>>Thanks Terry! I adjusted my tests and now see this behaviour exactly. 
>>The function itself works but the changes do not propogate out to the 
>>calling scope. So this approach of using locals() appears to be dead.
>>
>>Are there any other approaches?
> 
> 
> Think about what you are trying to do, and try to identify a (mutable)
> object that can encapsulate that.  Then pass the object, and modify its
> instance variables, like:
> 
> class Point:
>     def __init__(self, x, y):
>         self.x = x
>         self.y = y
> 
> def change(p):
>     p.y = 10
> 
> obj = Point(0, 0)
> change(obj)
> assert obj.y == 10
> 
> 
> Maybe this mutable object will simply be the main application object,
> and instead of functions you will use methods of that application
> object.
> 
>   Ian

This is a very interesting (and Pythonic) approach, thanks for 
suggesting it! This is certainly what I would try to do if I were 
writing the code from scratch. It may be possible to construct a 
"namespace" type object which gets passed to the function.

VB does have multiple namespaces so a single App object is probably not 
feasible but since my parser knows the App structure it can determine 
which namespace a variable will be resolved from anyway and just 
translate all attempts to access it to the relevant namespace object lookup.

Paul






From max at alcyone.com  Wed Jul 23 23:29:27 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 20:29:27 -0700
Subject: file.close()
References: <edITa.131868$Ph3.17333@sccrnsc04>
Message-ID: <3F1F5297.15D768EF@alcyone.com>

Bryan wrote:

> which explicitly closes f1 & f2
> any exceptions opening f1 or f2 is handled outside of this structure
> or is
> allowed to fall out of the program.  i'm aware that files will
> automatically
> be closed when the process exits.  i'm just curious how others do this
> for
> small scripts and larger programs.  is what i'm doing is overkill?

No, not at all; it's safe and portable.  Python the language does not
specify when objects get reclaimed, although CPython the implementation
does it promptly.  Use of external resources -- which should be released
as soon as you're done with them -- are best done in try/finally
clauses.

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ It is fatal to enter any war without the will to win it.
\__/  Douglas MacArthur



From meinrad.recheis at gmx.at  Sun Jul 27 16:41:43 2003
From: meinrad.recheis at gmx.at (meinrad recheis)
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 22:41:43 +0200
Subject: changing the List's behaviour?
Message-ID: <oprszk3tmy5wny6w@mail.gmx.net>

hi pythoneers

i am very annoyed by the List's index out of bouds exception
it forces me to complicate my code by adding length checking

i might be spoilt by Ruby which returns nil for not existing indices.
i want to change the List so that it returns None if the index for 
accesssing list elements
is out of bound.

i am not very experienced in python, so i ask you for suggestions.

thanks in advance,
	Meinrad Recheis






From usenet_spam at janc.invalid  Sun Jul 27 22:21:36 2003
From: usenet_spam at janc.invalid (JanC)
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 02:21:36 GMT
Subject: Help with Boa on Win98 with unicode installed
References: <20030727102742.18087.00000494@mb-m15.aol.com>
Message-ID: <Xns93C62C5A6C766JanC@213.119.4.141>

rastm2 at aol.commorespam (Raymond Arthur St. Marie II of III ) schreef:

> Has anyone ever struggeled with that install of Boa in Win98.
> I've followed the Docs. Tryed the "-E" switch while in DosPrompt. Made
> sure the wxPython version matched Python version...
> 
> What am I missing folks?

Don't use the unicode version of wxPython on Win9x, if that's possible?

Unicode wxPython gives problems on my Win98SE system too, but Boa starts up 
fine when I run it with ANSI wxPython (didn't try to actually use it yet).

-- 
JanC

"Be strict when sending and tolerant when receiving."
RFC 1958 - Architectural Principles of the Internet - section 3.9



From roo at dark-try-removing-this-boong.demon.co.uk  Thu Jul  3 10:41:49 2003
From: roo at dark-try-removing-this-boong.demon.co.uk (Rupert Pigott)
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 15:41:49 +0100
Subject: Collective memory (was: Good code patterns in Python)
References: <mailman.1057083728.8224.python-list@python.org> <vg88va53uha8e@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <1057243309.793889@saucer.planet.gong>

"Cameron Laird" <claird at lairds.com> wrote in message
news:vg88va53uha8e at corp.supernews.com...
> In article <mailman.1057083728.8224.python-list at python.org>,
> Bob Gailer  <bgailer at alum.rpi.edu> wrote:
> .
> .
> .
> >This brings back the good old days of FORTRAN IV which had a
> >single-statement IF and no ELSE. Thus:
> >       C = VALUE1
> >       IF ( A .EQ. B) C = VALUE2
> >Notice the indentation. Cols 1-5 were reserved for line # and col 6 for
the
> >continuation code. So Python is not the only indentation dependent
> >language. Nor is it the first to use indentation to convey structure.
> .
> .
> .
> Maybe youngsters don't realize this.
>
> One monotonous but unremitting argument that Python inspires
> is about the wisdom of its white-space-significance (WSS).
> Modern programmers might not realize how strongly old-timers
> associate WSS with early FORTRAN and COBOL (as we capitalized
> them then), and how unpleasant some of those memories are.
> *That*, I assume, is why WSS discussions become as heated as
> they do.

OCCAM used WS to denote block structure... For
example the IF construct :

IF
  x > 0
    y := 10
  x < 0
    y := 0
  x = 0
    y := 5

Personally I also found this a pain coming from
a C background... BUT, I grew to love it. It
normalised code layout, which meant that picking
up someone else's code was MUCH easier... As a
bonus it eliminated the holy wars about formatting
that have ravaged through every gathering of >=2
C coders. :)

Cheers,
Rupert





From bdesth.nospam at removeme.free.fr  Sun Jul 13 09:47:57 2003
From: bdesth.nospam at removeme.free.fr (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 13:47:57 +0000
Subject: What's new with Gnosis [wrong thread ?]
References: <mailman.1057989259.18960.python-list@python.org> <87d6gf6cc6.fsf@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <3F11630D.9090806@removeme.free.fr>

John J. Lee wrote:
> "Raymond Hettinger" <vze4rx4y at verizon.net> writes:
> [...]
> 
>>ACT I ---------------------------------------
>>


(snip)

John,
is it my newsreader going mad, or did you post in the wrong thread ?

Bruno




From staschuk at telusplanet.net  Thu Jul 31 23:01:59 2003
From: staschuk at telusplanet.net (Steven Taschuk)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 21:01:59 -0600
Subject: handle <BR> tags
In-Reply-To: <bgc3ad$o57$1@online.de>; from ben@dadsetan.com on Thu, Jul 31, 2003 at 11:54:48PM +0200
References: <mailman.1059657185.26996.python-list@python.org> <bgc3ad$o57$1@online.de>
Message-ID: <20030731210159.A23533@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>

Quoth Behrang Dadsetan:
  [...]
> I believe SGML does not like none closing tags. BR is one of the many 
> none closing tags in HTML (also look at IMG or HR)

SGML has facilities for allowing closing tags to be omitted.  At
<http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/sgml/dtd.html>, for example, we see

    <!ELEMENT BR - O EMPTY                 -- forced line break -->

That "- O" means the start tag is mandatory but the end tag may be
omitted.  If it is omitted, SGML parsers infer where it belongs
(which in this case is immediately after the start tag).

-- 
Steven Taschuk                                                   w_w
staschuk at telusplanet.net                                      ,-= U
                                                               1 1




From mike at nospam.com  Tue Jul  8 13:13:13 2003
From: mike at nospam.com (Mike Rovner)
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 10:13:13 -0700
Subject: printing html document with internet explorer
References: <003401c3456a$20be53e0$410100a4@utente65>
Message-ID: <beeu1k$qhv$1@main.gmane.org>

Luca Calderano wrote:
>
> Does anyone know how-to automatically print an html doc using Internet
> Explorer ???

See attached program.

> I've tried these ways:
>
> 1) wxHtmlEasyPrinting
> 2) win32api.ShellExecute

You missed  OLECMDEXECOPT_DONTPROMPTUSER = 2

Enjoy!
Mike


begin 666 printall.py
M9&5F(&EN:71?:64H*3H-"B @9VQO8F%L(&EE#0H@(&9R;VT@=VEN,S)C;VTN
M8VQI96YT(&EM<&]R="!$:7-P871C:$5X#0H@(&EE(#T at 1&ES<&%T8VA%>"@B
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M.B!P87-S#0H@(&EE+D5X96-70BA/3$5#341)1%]04DE.5"P at 3TQ%0TU$15A%
M0T]05%]$3TY44%)/35!455-%4BP@,"P@,"D-"@T*9&5F(&9I;F1?9FEL92AN
M86UE*3H-"B @:6UP;W)T(&]S#0H@(&EF(&]S+F%C8V5S<RAN86UE+&]S+D9?
M3TLI. at T*(" @(&-W9#UO<RYG971C=V0H*0T*(" @(&9U;&QN86UE/6-W9"MO
M<RYS97 K;F%M90T*(" @(&EF(&]S+F%C8V5S<RAF=6QL;F%M92QO<RY&7T]+
M*3H-"B @(" @(')E='5R;B!F=6QL;F%M90T*(" @(&5L<V4Z#0H@(" @("!R
M971U<FX@;F%M90T*("!R86ES92!)3T5R<F]R(", at 8F%D(&9I;&4@;F%M90T*
M#0ID968@;6%I;B at I.@T*("!I;7!O<G0@<WES#0H@('1R>3H-"B @("!I;FET
M7VEE*"D-"B @97AC97!T. at T*(" @('!R:6YT("=&051!3" M($EN=&5R;F5T
M($5X<&QO<F5R('5N879A:6QA8FQE)PT*(" @('-Y<RYE>&ET*"D@(" -"B @
M<VMI<#TP#0H@(&9O<B!A<F<@:6X@<WES+F%R9W8Z#0H@(" @:68 at 87)G+G-T
M87)T<W=I=&@H)RTM<VMI<#TG*3H-"B @(" @('-K:7 ]:6YT*&%R9ULW.ETI
M#0H@('1R>3H-"B @("!N86UE/69I;F1?9FEL92AS>7,N87)G=ELQ72D-"B @
M("!P<FEN="!N86UE#0H@(" @:68@;F]T('-K:7 Z('!R:6YT7V9I;&4H;F%M
M92D-"B @97AC97!T("A)3T5R<F]R+$EN9&5X17)R;W(I. at T*(" @('!R:6YT
M("=5<V%G93H@)7,@(FUA;G5A;"YH=&UL(B!;+2US:VEP/4Y=7&X at +2UP<FEN
M=', at 86QL(&UA;G5A;"!W:71H($E%)R E('-Y<RYA<F=V6S!=#0H@(" @<WES
M+F5X:70H*2 @( T*("!I9B!N86UE+F-O=6YT*"<N)RD@(3T@,3H-"B @("!P
M<FEN=" B0V%N)W0 at 86-C97-S(&-H87!T97(H<RD@:6X@=&AE(&UA;G5A;"(-
M"B @("!S>7,N97AI="@I(" @#0H@(&-H87 ],0T*("!W:&EL92!4<G5E. at T*
M(" @('1R>3H-"B @(" @(&EF(&-H87 ^<VMI<#H@<')I;G1?9FEL92@@9FEN
M9%]F:6QE*&YA;64N<F5P;&%C92 at G+B<L)U\E9"XG("4 at 8VAA<"DI("D-"B @
M(" @(&-H87 K/3$-"B @("!E>&-E<'0Z#0H@(" @("!S>7,N97AI="@I#0H-
)"FUA:6XH*0T*
`
end






From tojopiter at yahoo.com  Tue Jul  8 04:12:21 2003
From: tojopiter at yahoo.com (piter)
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 10:12:21 +0200
Subject: Image Streaming
References: <381a2b17.0307072326.211c21b5@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bedu7d$i0f$1@news.onet.pl>

Uzytkownik "Steffen Brodowski" <st.brodowski at eucrea.com> napisal w
wiadomosci news:381a2b17.0307072326.211c21b5 at posting.google.com...
> Hello everyone,
>
> since one week, I'm programming with python. Its a realy interesting
> tool. I wrote a script for generating barcodes in jpg-format.
> Everything is ok, but my function "CreateBarcode" should write the jpg
> data into an outstream. All barcodes will be generate online, without
> saving the jpgs on harddisk.
>
> Can you give me a tip witch objects I need and how to put the jpg into
> an outgoing stream?
>
> import Image, ImageDraw
> def CreateBarcode(SourceString,Linewidth,WriteText):
>     blablabla
>     ...
>     NewImage = Image.new("L",NewSize,Backcolor)
>     ImgDraw = ImageDraw.Draw(NewImage)
>     ....
>
>     #How to put the image into an stream?

Image.save
save(outfile, options)
save(outfile, format, options)
Saves the image under the given filename. If format is omitted, the format
is determined from the filename extension, if possible. This method returns
None.
Keyword options can be used to provide additional instructions to the
writer. If a writer doesn't recognise an option, it is silently ignored. The
available options are described later in this handbook.
You can use a file object instead of a filename. In this case, you must
always specify the format. The file object must implement the seek, tell,
and write methods, and be opened in binary mode.

hth
Piter
>
> best regards
>
> Steffen Brodowksi
> Germany





From stuart at bmsi.com  Mon Jul 14 16:48:07 2003
From: stuart at bmsi.com (Stuart D. Gathman)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 16:48:07 -0400
Subject: ANN: dspam-python-2.6.2-3
Message-ID: <pan.2003.07.14.20.47.56.980868.7829@bmsi.com>

I have created RPMs and a python wrapper for the DSPAM project.  The DSPAM
project was created by NetworkDweebs and provides a Bayesian spam
filtering Mail Delivery Agent. More importantly, it exports the core
engine as a C library.  The core library is what is wrapped for Python.  I
also took the liberty of creating a 'tokenize' entry point to the core
library allowing python code to use its own database structure. 
Tokenizing is the only step that needs C speed.

There are no docs yet for the python wrapper, but good short examples in
python are included in the source.  The python versions of some of the
DSPAM utilities, like dspam_corpus.py, are faster than their C counterpart
(26 vs. 33 secs)!  (This is due to the python code not opening and closing
the database for each message.)  The web page has an example of using
dspam in a Python milter.

http://bmsi.com/python/dspam.html



From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sun Jul 13 13:40:13 2003
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 13 Jul 2003 13:40:13 -0400
Subject: anything like C++ references?
References: <13t0hvsb7idh0g6ac3upe5k0qd6flc17ah@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <bes5ht$nib$1@panix2.panix.com>

In article <13t0hvsb7idh0g6ac3upe5k0qd6flc17ah at 4ax.com>,
Tom Plunket  <tomas at fancy.org> wrote:
>
>I want to do something along the lines of the following C++ code:
>
>void change(int& i)
>{
>   i++;
>}

class Counter:
    def __init__(self, start=0):
        self.counter = start
    def inc(self, increment=1):
        self.counter += increment

def change(counter):
    counter.inc()

There's no need to get into all the special methods required to
implement a number type, and it's a Bad Idea to use a random container
object.  Just pass around a mutable class instance, and your code
becomes simpler and clearer.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"Not everything in life has a clue in front of it...."  --JMS



From hokiegal99 at hotmail.com  Tue Jul 22 22:29:44 2003
From: hokiegal99 at hotmail.com (hokiegal99)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 22:29:44 -0400
Subject: lists and files question
References: <3F1DCF52.7040607@hotmail.com> <mailman.1058920774.24079.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3F1DF318.20308@hotmail.com>

"print fname" prints out the list of files in "setpath" w/o problem. How 
does it do that if os.walk doesn't give it the path to the files?

Here's some output from "print fname":

['index.txt', 'CELL-MINUTES.xls', '.nautilus-metafile.xml']
['2000 Schedule.xls', '2001 State.pdf', '2001.pdf', 'A Little More Like 
Bill.doc', 'AARP.doc', "Accounting's of Dad's Est.xls", 
'Amortization_Table.xls', 'huey letter.doc', 'utt-R&D.pdf', 'utt.pdf', 
'rest.xls', 'Debts and Assets.xls', 'First Accounting - Estate.xls', 
'Friends.doc', "Grace's.doc", 'Home Address.doc', 'Ins.doc', 
'Insurance.doc', 'Interro.doc', 'Marshall.doc', 'NBB home loan.doc', 
'Position Description.doc', "andy's", "Andy's Travel Voucher.xls", 
"Andy's Travel.xls", 'Rebuttal.doc', 'Refinance.doc', 'TaxReturn 2.pdf', 
'TaxReturn 3.pdf', 'TaxReturn 4.pdf', 'TaxReturn 5.pdf', 
'TaxReturn.pdf', 'The Casey Song.doc', "Touch of the Hand.xls", 'Workout 
Sheet.xls', 'application.pdf', 'budsum.pdf']

When I add os.path.join like this:

setpath = raw_input("Enter the path: ")
for root, dirs, files in os.walk(setpath):
	id = re.compile('Microsoft Excel Worksheet')
	fname = files
	print fname
	content = open(os.path.join(root,fname[0]),'rb')
	
I get a "IndexError: list index out of range" error.

This is a Linux 2.4 computer running Python 2.3b2... if that matters.

Thanks!

Sean 'Shaleh' Perry wrote:
> On Tuesday 22 July 2003 16:57, hokiegal99 wrote:
> 
>>This code:
>>
>>import os, re, string
>>setpath = raw_input("Enter the path: ")
>>for root, dirs, files in os.walk(setpath):
>>	id = re.compile('Microsoft Excel Worksheet')
>>	fname = files
>>#	print fname
>>	content = open(fname[1],'rb')
>>
>>Produces this error:
>>
>>IOError: Error[2] No such file or directory 'Name of File'
>>
> 
> 
> if you replace your logic with some prints you will quickly see the problem.
> 
> What happens is os.walk() passes filenames without their path.  You need to 
> use os.path.join() to get the full name back.







From mfranklin1 at gatwick.westerngeco.slb.com  Fri Jul 11 04:28:02 2003
From: mfranklin1 at gatwick.westerngeco.slb.com (Martin Franklin)
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 09:28:02 +0100
Subject: command prompt change dir
In-Reply-To: <belm3i$22ek$1@news.cybercity.dk>
References: <belm3i$22ek$1@news.cybercity.dk>
Message-ID: <200307110928.02474.mfranklin1@gatwick.westerngeco.slb.com>

On Friday 11 July 2003 07:39, Peter Vestergaard wrote:
> Hi
> Probably a simple question but I have not been able to find out how:
> I want my python script to generate a path based on some simple lookups and
> then change my path so that when the script exits my command prompt (from
> which I launched the script) is standing at this path. The path already
> exists.
> I have tried chdir(path), system('cd '+path) and many others but none
> changes my actual path.
> Hope anyone can help
> Regards, Peter Vestergaard

I don't think it is possible to change the path of the calling program (in 
this case the command prompt you use to start the python script....)
However you could use a shell trick to kind of do what you want:-


#!/usr/local/bin/python
# ChangePath script
# invoke from command line like so:
# cd `ChangePath.py`
#

# simple lookup...
path = "/usr/oracle/"
print path


Invoke the above from your command line (xterm or whatever...)

cd `ChangePath.py`

I have only tested this on Linux + bash and I would guess this would not work 
on Windows...


Regards
Martin




From lorenb2 at bezeqint.net  Sun Jul 20 17:57:48 2003
From: lorenb2 at bezeqint.net (Bobbie)
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 23:57:48 +0200
Subject: httplib\urllib attributes problem
References: <mailman.1058768851.9542.python-list@python.org> <oprsng7vhi5ctagx@shawnews> <oprsnhddis5ctagx@shawnews> <005201c34f05$e273da60$6700a8c0@inet43> <oprsnjc3nl5ctagx@shawmail> <006001c34f07$03bb0760$6700a8c0@inet43> <oprsnjvhrs5ctagx@shawmail>
Message-ID: <007a01c34f09$f5329a20$6700a8c0@inet43>

I'm really doing my first python steps here...
can you show me where and how should the "opener.addheaders = []" code
be added to a simple web-client like the following:

    import urllib2
    url = 'http://www.google.com'
    body = None
    headers = {"User-Agent" : "My first python browser",
                      "Accept-Language" : "en-us",
                      "Accept-Encoding" : "deflate",
                      "Connection" : "Close"}
    connectobj = urllib2.Request(url,body,headers)
    webfile = urllib2.urlopen(connectobj)

thanks
B.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jordan Krushen" <jordan at krushen.com>
To: "Bobbie" <lorenb2 at bezeqint.net>
Cc: <python-list at python.org>
Sent: Monday, July 21, 2003 10:43 AM
Subject: Re: httplib\urllib attributes problem


> On Sun, 20 Jul 2003 23:36:44 +0200, Bobbie <lorenb2 at bezeqint.net> wrote:
>
> > hmmm.
> > But doesn't that apply to the suggested "opener.addheaders = []" change
> > as
> > well ?
>
> That would go in your code, not in urllib2.py.  You have control over when
> your code changes, and if you ship a package to other users, this would
> still be able to override their libraries, too.
>
> J.
>
>
>






From mis6 at pitt.edu  Wed Jul 23 17:11:47 2003
From: mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato)
Date: 23 Jul 2003 14:11:47 -0700
Subject: classes
References: <pan.2003.07.19.20.46.33.864915@bogus.domain.org> <ad052e5c.0307191826.144ad2a5@posting.google.com> <pan.2003.07.20.12.30.11.157694@bogus.domain.org> <mailman.1058723911.12956.python-list@python.org> <2259b0e2.0307210451.203db2ef@posting.google.com> <mailman.1058833821.16631.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <2259b0e2.0307231311.1102621a@posting.google.com>

Steven Taschuk <staschuk at telusplanet.net> wrote in message news:<mailman.1058833821.16631.python-list at python.org>...
> Quoth Michele Simionato:
> > Steven Taschuk <staschuk at telusplanet.net> wrote in message news:<mailman.1058723911.12956.python-list at python.org>...
>  [...]
> > >     _the_instance = None
> > >     class MySingleton(object):
> > >         def __new__(self):
> > >             global _the_instance
> > >             if _the_instance is None:
> > >                 _the_instance = object.__new__(self)
> > >             return _the_instance
> > 
> > Why are you using a global here and not [a class attribute]
> 
> The memory of that thread a little while back about using __del__
> with singletons.  If the instance is referenced by a class
> attribute, the cyclic reference prevents the __del__ from being
> used.  If the cycle goes through a module attribute, though, the
> zapping of module dicts during shutdown breaks the cycle and lets
> the __del__ run.  (Whether all this is true depends on the version
> of Python, I think, but I don't know the details.)
> 
> This might be relevant to the OP, whose example was a singleton
> representing the single database connection used by an entire
> application -- in such a case, __del__ would be a natural place to
> make sure the connection is closed properly.
> 
> I should have explained this bit of trickery.  :(
> 
Thanks for the explation, I missed that thread.

                       Michele



From jepler at unpythonic.net  Wed Jul 30 07:59:08 2003
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 06:59:08 -0500
Subject: Unfortunate exception on dict item assignment (and why aren't slices hashable?)
In-Reply-To: <67fdivk9iu0q1p7nc8smfj1miip3cbvobf@4ax.com>
References: <mailman.1058752171.10243.python-list@python.org> <mailman.1058757391.658.python-list@python.org> <bg4lud$auo$1@panix3.panix.com> <3f2627c7$0$76067$edfadb0f@dread11.news.tele.dk> <bg5vg6$2d2$1@panix1.panix.com> <67fdivk9iu0q1p7nc8smfj1miip3cbvobf@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <20030730115903.GA10227@unpythonic.net>

On Tue, Jul 29, 2003 at 07:29:19PM +0100, Marc Wilson wrote:
> In comp.lang.python,  aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) (Aahz) wrote in
> <bg5vg6$2d2$1 at panix1.panix.com>::
> 
> |Fair enough.  Note carefully that I said "submit a patch" -- that
> |doesn't guarantee that the patch will be accepted, and it's quite likely
> |that it won't be.  But "submit a patch" is usually a good way to get
> |people to shut up.  ;-)
> 
> Shame it doesn't work in *all* newsgroups, eh?

I'll have you know that I've submitted a number of Python patches that
were clearly bad ideas.  In fact, I'm a little hurt that Aahz doesn't
think of me as "that guy who often posts or submits horrible patches
and won't shut up".

Jeff




From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Jul  3 22:12:49 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 22:12:49 -0400
Subject: FYI:  pyBoards.com
References: <191e20c8.0307031711.42d4e46b@posting.google.com> <3F04E609.2010500@dadsetan.com>
Message-ID: <3F04E2A1.448FD235@engcorp.com>

(Please don't top-post.)

Behrang Dadsetan wrote:
> 
> A bit a pitty the message board system is php based..
> 
> Does anyone know about message board systems written in python?

Sounds like you should post this to the board itself, which
asks the very same question: http://pyboards.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=3

-Peter



From duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk  Wed Jul  9 09:06:06 2003
From: duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk (Duncan Booth)
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 13:06:06 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: copy list, which way is best? /style
References: <begt35$4sd5m$1@fu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <Xns93B38F0E352CFduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

"Andreas Kuntzagk" <andreas.kuntzagk at mdc-berlin.de> wrote in 
news:begt35$4sd5m$1 at fu-berlin.de:

> There are three ways to (shallow)copy a list l I'm aware of:
> 
>>>> l2=list(l)
>>>> l2=l[:]
>>>> l2.copy.copy(l)
> 
> Are there any differences? Are there more (reasonable) ways?
> I think the first is the most pythonic, second looks more like this other
> p-language and third requires an import, so I would prefer the first. 
> Do you agree?

They all do slightly different things.
I think this is a fairly accurate description of what each of these does:

>>> l2 = list(l)
This will copy any iterable object and will produce a new, distinct list as 
a result.

>>> l2=l[:]
This will copy a sequence, and will return an object of the same type as 
the original. If the original is immutable, then it may simply return the 
original object and not bother with making a copy.

>>> l2=copy.copy(l)
This will copy any object whether or not it is a sequence, but it may still 
return the original object for immutables.

>>> l2=copy.deepcopy(l)
This will make a deep copy of an object. It only returns the original 
object for immutables if any objects they contain are also immutable 
(including their contents).

-- 
Duncan Booth                                             duncan at rcp.co.uk
int month(char *p){return(124864/((p[0]+p[1]-p[2]&0x1f)+1)%12)["\5\x8\3"
"\6\7\xb\1\x9\xa\2\0\4"];} // Who said my code was obscure?



From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Thu Jul 10 13:59:19 2003
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 12:59:19 -0500
Subject: Parsing
In-Reply-To: <e5fb8973.0307100938.13fcea56@posting.google.com> (whatsupg21@hotmail.com's
 message of "10 Jul 2003 10:38:48 -0700")
References: <e5fb8973.0307100938.13fcea56@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <m2el0y8dqg.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

>>>>> "Michael" == Michael  <whatsupg21 at hotmail.com> writes:

    Michael> I have been assigned a project to parse a webpage for
    Michael> data using Python. I have finished only basic
    Michael> tutorials. Any suggestions as to where I should go from
    Michael> here? Thanks in advance.  --
    Michael> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Check out this article

  http://www.unixreview.com/documents/s=7822/ur0302h/


and then search the comp.lang.python achives for "web scraping"

  http://www.google.com/groups?as_q=web%20scraping&safe=off&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&as_ugroup=*python*&lr=&num=20&hl=en

See, for example,

  http://www.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&safe=off&threadm=mailman.1055971051.1456.python-list%40python.org&rnum=1&prev=/groups%3Fnum%3D20%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26oe%3DUTF-8%26safe%3Doff%26q%3Dparsing%2Bcomplex%2Bweb%2Bpages%2Bgroup%253A*python*%26btnG%3DGoogle%2BSearch


You should look at the string and re modules for relatively simple
information retrieval, and the htmllib and formatter modules for more
complicated solutions where parsing is required.  The best solution
depends on the format of the web pages you need to parse.

John Hunter




From exarkun at twistedmatrix.com  Sun Jul 13 15:38:46 2003
From: exarkun at twistedmatrix.com (Jp Calderone)
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 15:38:46 -0400
Subject: Library for pop over ssl?
In-Reply-To: <bersm5$88gse$1@ID-165840.news.uni-berlin.de>
References: <bersm5$88gse$1@ID-165840.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <20030713193840.GB24564@intarweb.us>

On Sun, Jul 13, 2003 at 03:08:53PM +0000, Marco Herrn wrote:
> Hi, I know of poplib, which does what I need except that it doesn't
> support SSL encryption. imaplib has SSL-support. But I want it with
> pop3. Is there a library available that does this or do I have to
> implement it myself?

  http://www.twistedmatrix.com/

  Jp

-- 
http://catandgirl.com/view.cgi?44




From BPettersen at NAREX.com  Tue Jul 22 16:28:15 2003
From: BPettersen at NAREX.com (Bjorn Pettersen)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 14:28:15 -0600
Subject: How is the execution order of 'x = z'? (also: Python FAQ 4.88)
Message-ID: <60FB8BB7F0EFC7409B75EEEC13E2019202CE46E2@admin56.narex.com>

> From: Ames Andreas (MPA/DF) [mailto:Andreas.Ames at tenovis.com] 
> 
> Hello,
> 
> during execution of an assignment statement like
>
> x = y
> .
> .
> .
> x = z # <--
> 
> is y's reference count decremented (and therefore its __del__ possibly
> called) *before* x is bound to z (or is z bound to x, I don't know the
> correct wording) or *afterwards*?

I'm not sure exactly what you're asking, but "x = y", is similar to the
following C-pseudo-code:

 1 incref(*y);
 2 tmp = x
 3 x = y;
 4 decref(*tmp); // potentially calling __del__

[[if I'm reading ceval.c correctly... lines 2-4 being in SETLOCAL,
called from STORE_FAST, based on the following code:

>>> def f(a,b):
...    a = b
...
>>> import dis
>>> dis.dis(f)
  2           0 LOAD_FAST                1 (b)
              3 STORE_FAST               0 (a)
              6 LOAD_CONST               0 (None)
              9 RETURN_VALUE
]]

whether this should matter to you is dubious since the case you seem to
be worried about (y being deleted before z assigned to x) would only
matter if it caused z to have a dangling reference to y. However, if z
has a reference to y, its reference count can't go to zero, thus no
__del__ would ever be called.

-- bjorn




From max at cNOvSisiPonAtecMh.com  Thu Jul  3 13:25:29 2003
From: max at cNOvSisiPonAtecMh.com (Max Khesin)
Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 17:25:29 GMT
Subject: A story about Python... sort of
References: <3f03f430$0$97222$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk> <KwWMa.3332$Aw.3042@twister.nyc.rr.com> <3F043B22.19FE79AE@engcorp.com> <FiZMa.2097$_k2.145814@nnrp1.ptd.net>
Message-ID: <dGZMa.5172$351.1725266@twister.nyc.rr.com>

"BearMan" <ronald at PassTheDairy.net> wrote in message
news:FiZMa.2097$_k2.145814 at nnrp1.ptd.net...
> Not to mention all the time spent recompiling through out the debugging
and
> troubleshooting process. Has Max ever programmed in Python? How about
> Assembly?

Yes to both in varying degree.

> The fact of the matter is there is no such thing as one ULTIMATE language.
A
> real programmer will have mastered several languages so as to integrate
the
> best features for any given situation.
>
> IMHO

I am not sure where we disagree. This is exactly my point. The statement
"
Engineering Lessons
-------------------
    1. C/C++ is no longer a viable development language
"
is pure rubbish. C++ is still great for certain kinds of projects, and there
are lots of open-source and proprietary projects to prove this. I mean, is
Linux (or Windows) 'not a viable project'?? As I said, this is a very
narrow-minded and conceited statement: rubbish.

max.





From bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au  Mon Jul  7 00:34:21 2003
From: bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 04:34:21 GMT
Subject: A story about Python... sort of
References: <3f03f430$0$97222$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk> <mailman.1057259346.26179.python-list@python.org> <Yg3Na.97773$R73.11565@sccrnsc04> <mailman.1057533613.9015.python-list@python.org> <yw4Oa.22149$Ey6.10815@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net> <slrnbghmk2.8cj.bignose-hates-spam@zeus.zipworld.com.au> <cM5Oa.22507$Ey6.11166@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net>
Message-ID: <slrnbghu1k.dpb.bignose-hates-spam@zeus.zipworld.com.au>

On Mon, 07 Jul 2003 03:27:04 GMT, Russell Reagan wrote:
> I agree that it is not good to worry about optimization prematurely,
> but computer chess might be a bit of a unique area.

I am extremely skeptical of any statement like this.  *Everyone* thinks
their area is a unique exception to the guidelines.

The area in which one chooses to specialise is fascinating, and one
spends a lot of happy time exploring its unfathomable complexities.  It
is a hideously common mistake to extrapolate, from this, that the area
whose complexities you know in detail is therefore more complex than
others, and thus exempt from the guidelines.  It is then a very small
step to assume a priori that it *is* an exception, in this one unique
area.

I'm not saying yours is not, but you'd better prove that "might be"
before it becomes "let's assume it is".

> This is also why OOP might not be of much use for chess programming.

Programming in Python doesn't necessitate OOP; one can make use of the
rich data structures as is while being happily procedural.

> There is really not a lot you can do to improve [position evaluation]
> short of starting over from scratch and creating your data structures
> in such a way as to exploit lots of low level tricks.

Sounds like you're already focusing in the right area.  Make smart data,
so that the code can be dumb.  The advantage is that you can write dumb
code in most any language -- so you can choose Python if you want to
prototype your smart data structures.

And, who knows, your data structures may be so well designed that your
dumb Python code is good enough, except just in this little bit here
that needs to be tweaked in C.

>> at least you've debugged a working algorithm, and can treat it as
>> pseudocode for the port to C.
>
> It sounds like you're thinking, "I'll just implement this python
> program in C/C++, and then it will be faster," but I'm not sure that
> is the case.

I was referring more to algorithms rather than entire programs, since
they are more often at a "module" level, but in essence, yes.  Once you
decide you've made the algorithm as fast as it can be while remaining
implemented in readable Python, that's the point to think about
re-implementing the algorithm in C.

> Sure it will be faster, but probably still pretty slow.

This is the assumption that will trip you up and cause you to optimise
prematurely.  Do *not* assume you know exactly where your program will
be slow until you see it working and profiled, or which parts will be
best implemented in C.

> Making a really fast chess program would require changing the data
> structures significantly, and I'm not sure what use the python code
> would be after you made a big overhaul of the data representations.

Again, make the data structures smart and you can manipulate them in
dumb code written in Python or C.

> What do you think? I may be way off. Maybe I'm putting too much
> emphasis on speed.

It's understandable, given that the focus on chess-playing programs is
mostly on finding ways to make them go faster or do more in the same
time.  But if you want to implement a program in Python, don't make any
assumptions about where it is slow.

Much of the Python core is *already optimised* in C libraries, so
attempting to optimise before profiling is doubly foolish.  One of
PYthon's strengths is rich data structures, that work very fast under
most all conditions because their implementation is smart.

Take advantage of Python's powerful types when you design your own smart
data; but start with the simple algorithms and tweak them only when they
prove to be slow in Python.

-- 
 \          "I spent all my money on a FAX machine. Now I can only FAX |
  `\                                       collect."  -- Steven Wright |
_o__)                                                                  |
http://bignose.squidly.org/ 9CFE12B0 791A4267 887F520C B7AC2E51 BD41714B



From hitectahir at hotmail.com  Tue Jul  1 11:00:59 2003
From: hitectahir at hotmail.com (hitectahir)
Date: 1 Jul 2003 08:00:59 -0700
Subject: Problem with self.fp.readline() in httplib.py
Message-ID: <d338208a.0307010700.3ae9210a@posting.google.com>

Hi,

I have been using a remote data server named Clarens which runs on top
of the Apache web server and communicates through xmlrpc on Redhat
Linux 7.3. It has been working fine for about a month, but today it
has started giving some error in httplib.py. The complete traceback is
given below:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "clarensclient.py", line 2, in ?
    
dbsvr=Clarens.clarens_client('http://localhost:80/xmlrpc/clarens_server.py',certfile='/root/rpms/CA.crt',keyfile='/root/rpms/CA.key',debug=1)
  File "Clarens.py", line 280, in __init__
    text_scert,crypt_server_nonce_64,crypt_user_nonce_64 = 
self.system.auth()
  File "xmlrpclib.py", line 821, in __call__
    return self.__send(self.__name, args)
  File "xmlrpclib.py", line 975, in __request
    verbose=self.__verbose
  File "Clarens.py", line 178, in request
    errcode, errmsg, headers = h.getreply()
  File "httplib.py", line 752, in getreply
    response = self._conn.getresponse()
  File "httplib.py", line 595, in getresponse
    response.begin()
  File "httplib.py", line 119, in begin
    line = self.fp.readline()

This also occurs when i press Ctrl+C. Otherwise the python script just
hangs up.Can somebody tell me how this error can be removed? Ive
already tried reinstalling the python2 rpm, the py-xmlrpc rpm  and
mod_python, but still it doesnt work.

Tahir.



From bgailer at alum.rpi.edu  Tue Jul  8 14:23:52 2003
From: bgailer at alum.rpi.edu (Bob Gailer)
Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 12:23:52 -0600
Subject: Collective memory
In-Reply-To: <BVoC/oHpvq2Y092yn@visi.com>
References: <mailman.1057083728.8224.python-list@python.org>
 <vg88va53uha8e@corp.supernews.com>
 <3F09F136.6060000@srv.net>
 <rfrpt-ah3.ln1@beastie.ix.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20030708122151.023d59b8@66.28.54.253>

At 03:48 AM 7/8/2003 -0500, Richard Steiner wrote:

>Here in alt.folklore.computers,
>Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed at ix.netcom.com> spake unto us, saying:
>
> >Kevin Handy fed this fish to the penguins on Monday 07 July 2003 03:16
> >pm:
> >
> >> In FORTRAN, certial columns were allocated to specific purposes.
> >> 1-5 for the line number, 6 for comment/continuation, 7-75 for the
> >> program line, 76-80 for sequence numbers. [iirc]
> >        <g>
> >
> >        C in 1 for Comment
>
>Or an "*" in some compilers.
>
> >        Anything in 6 for Continuation
>
>...except a space.  :-)

Or the digit zero! I got caught by that when sequentially numbering 
continuation lines in col 6: 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,0... when it hit 0 the 
compiler saw it as a new line.

Bob Gailer
bgailer at alum.rpi.edu
303 442 2625
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From pheniks at softhome.net  Sun Jul 13 11:09:48 2003
From: pheniks at softhome.net (Sage)
Date: 13 Jul 2003 17:09:48 +0200
Subject: installing python library modules (general question)
In-Reply-To: <20030713140624.30781.77624.Mailman@mail.python.org>
References: <20030713140624.30781.77624.Mailman@mail.python.org>
Message-ID: <1058108988.29786.5.camel@reality.page.za.net>

This might be a long shot, but try making symlink(s) to the 
libraries in your /usr/lib path
cd /usr/lib ; ln -s /usr/local/lib/libmad.so.0
(you'll need to be root to do that)

Other than that, see if you can import the module if
you are root. Does your user account have access right to
the lib in question?


> From: juliagoolia301 at hotmail.com (Julia Goolia)
> Subject: installing python library modules (general question)
> Date: 13 Jul 2003 06:42:59 -0700
> Organization: http://groups.google.com/
> To: python-list at python.org
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I'm sure this issue has been brought up a billion times... but I'm
> having trouble installing a python module.  I have read all the
> documentation for all the buzz words I know related to this problem
> but to no avail.
> 
> Basically I downloaded a python module called pymad.  This module is
> supposed to be simplified API to libmad (an mp3 decoder) (I want to
> play mp3's from python).
> 
> I installed libmad.  The libraries appear to be in /usr/local/lib.  I
> did all the distutils stuff for the module.  Now when I try to "import
> mad" I get an ImportError exception:
> 
> ImportError: libmad.so.0: cannot open shared object file: No such file
> or directory
> 
> I know the file /usr/local/lib/libmad.so.0 exists, but python can't
> seem to find it.  I tried adding this path to LD_LIBRARY_PATH, but
> that didn't help.
> 
> I guess that I just really dont' know enought about libraries and
> linux (redhat 9).  I don't really know where they are supposed to go
> after being compiled, and how python "loads" and uses them.
> 
> Any help is much appreciated,
> Julia
> 






From usenet_spam at janc.invalid  Tue Jul 15 14:32:46 2003
From: usenet_spam at janc.invalid (JanC)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 18:32:46 GMT
Subject: wxPython - question
References: <slrnbgre73.fld.pipen@beast.tu.kielce.pl> <3cp1hvgjkfeih2k3f0mo0he7mn4lmt7u7q@4ax.com> <slrnbh339p.dkj.pipen@beast.tu.kielce.pl> <4737hvob87b2699fvqkhl61i9ufqm1jnc4@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <Xns93B9D1005F65EJanC@213.118.75.80>

Tim Roberts <timr at probo.com> schreef:

> but the same thing could be achieved by plopping up a dialog box.

That's why almost everybody is using a pop-up stopper these days.  ;-p
Most people don't like dialog boxes to pop up unexpectedly when they are 
concentrating on their work or a game or ...

Tray icons for IM clients are also often used for visual feedback about 
things like connection state.


OTOH, some other programs do indeed have useless tray icons...

-- 
JanC

"Be strict when sending and tolerant when receiving."
RFC 1958 - Architectural Principles of the Internet - section 3.9



From max at alcyone.com  Sun Jul 13 16:42:23 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 13:42:23 -0700
Subject: anything like C++ references?
References: <13t0hvsb7idh0g6ac3upe5k0qd6flc17ah@4ax.com> <pan.2003.07.13.10.58.11.376531@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <3F11C42F.5030406@alcyone.com>

David McNab wrote:

> In Python, basic types like strings and numbers are a weird exception to
> the 'everything is an object' rule.
> 
> When you pass any other object in a function, the function gets a ref to
> that object.
> 
> But when you pass a string or numeric object, the whole thing (not a ref)
> gets passed.


This is completely incorrect.  On the contrary, builtin types are 
handled exactly uniformly in Python.  The only difference here is that 
the builtin types that you've listed, along with some others, are 
immutable, so you cannot change them if you have a reference to them.

Contrast this to, say, Java, where there really is a solid distinction 
between builtin fundamental types, like int and long, and actual object 
types, derived from java.lang.Object, which are all passed by reference. 
Python doesn't make this distinction.


-- 
    Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
  __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ But who shall dwell in these worlds if they be inhabited?
\__/  Johannes Kepler




From sigurd at 12move.de  Thu Jul  3 16:14:36 2003
From: sigurd at 12move.de (Karl =?iso-8859-1?q?Pfl=E4sterer?=)
Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 22:14:36 +0200
Subject: Emacs + py-mode + tkinter problem
References: <WCWMa.18$Ha.16@nwrdny02.gnilink.net> <be1ejn$5qov$1@ID-63505.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <m3y8zfxtdr.fsf@hamster.pflaesterer.de>

On  3 Jul 2003, Thomas G?ttler <- guettler at thomas-guettler.de wrote:

> the interactive prompt from a terminal. Since I am quite happy
> I would like to konw why you want the python interpreter in emacs?

Because it's much more convenient if you needn't leave the editor.
Editing is also a lot more comfortable.


   KP

-- 
Der wahre Weltuntergang ist die Vernichtung des Geistes, der andere h?ngt von
dem gleichgiltigen Versuch ab, ob nach der Vernichtung des Geistes noch eine
Welt bestehen kann.
                   Karl Kraus 'Untergang der Welt durch schwarze Magie'



From andy at wild-flower.co.uk  Wed Jul 23 18:22:19 2003
From: andy at wild-flower.co.uk (Andy Jewell)
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 23:22:19 +0100
Subject: The global statement
In-Reply-To: <Xns93C1A6E45488Eduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>
References: <pan.2003.07.23.08.06.17.301516@intnet.mu> <pan.2003.07.23.15.14.52.430267@intnet.mu> <Xns93C1A6E45488Eduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <200307232322.19827.andy@wild-flower.co.uk>

Gentlepeople,

I found it easier to envisage the Python global statement as the inverse of 
the Pascal/Modula/C  concept:

In traditional (compiled procedural) languages, one *declares* a variable at 
the 'top-level' scope, and then uses it as one would a local variable in 
functions/procedures, but without declaring it again.  Global variables in 
these types of languages are treated differently in most respects (where they 
are stored for example: heap rather than stack, usually).  There is usually 
no special notation, however, to enable the reader (especially one not 
skilled in the language at hand) to determine that a given variable is, in 
fact, global or local: you have to know the scoping rules of the language.  
If you define a variable outside of a function, it's global (notwithstanding 
the placement/sequencing rules for that language).

Python is different (as always).  It allows you to *read* the value (pardon 
the over-simplification) of variables declared at the 'top level', that is, 
created outside of a function, but you can't *write* to it without first 
telling Python that you wish to do so (by using the global statement): 
forgetting to do so results in the creation of a similarly named local 
variable, with no relation whatsoever to the intended global variable. I tend 
to think of it as 'telling python it's ok to change' the variable.


pascal;

var a_global: integer;

function read_a_global;
begin
    read_a_global:=a_global; (* return the value of global variable *)
end;

procedure modify_a_global;
begin
    a_global:=10;  (* modify global variable *)
end;

end.


#python:
a_global=1

def read_a_global():
    return a_global # REFERENCE the global variable

def cant_modify_a_global():
    a_global = 10 # makes a local variable called a_global
    # which disappears after this point:

def modify_a_global(n):
    global a_global # Makes a_global locally accessible for modifying
    a_global = 10 # top-level a_global variable is modified



When I first tried to do this sort of thing in python, i wrote:

global a_global

def modify_a_global():
    a_global=10

...and wondered why it didn't work.  I admit that the docs didn't really help 
much either, as they don't tell you to put the statement *inside* the 
function that needs to modify the variable!  I only finally understood by 
reading some of the standard library code, after searching it for the word 
'global' itself!

just my 2p...

hope that helps

-andyj




From mhammond at skippinet.com.au  Thu Jul 31 19:02:03 2003
From: mhammond at skippinet.com.au (Mark Hammond)
Date: Fri, 01 Aug 2003 09:02:03 +1000
Subject: How to get Windows physical RAM using python?
In-Reply-To: <bgbl25$4v6$0@216.39.172.122>
References: <bg90lh$bkp$1@news3.bu.edu> <bg92o2$onr$1@news3.bu.edu> <bg9btk$5ia$06$1@news.t-online.com> <bgbl25$4v6$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <bgc756$kh7$1@arachne.labyrinth.net.au>

Why not submit that as a patch to win32all <wink>?

Mark.

Bengt Richter wrote:
> On Wed, 30 Jul 2003 23:04:56 +0200, =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?= <martin at v.loewis.de> wrote:
> 
> 
>>Mark wrote:
>>
>>
>>>OK, How to check the amount of Windows physical RAM using python?
>>
>>You should call the GlobalMemoryStatus(Ex) function. To my knowledge,
>>there is no Python wrapper for it, yet, so you would need to write one.
>>
>>Regards,
>>Martin
>>
> 
> ====< memorystatus.c >=============================================
> /*
> ** memorystatus.c
> ** Version 0.01 20030731 10:45:12 Bengt Richter bokr at oz.net
> **
> */
> 
> #include "Python.h"
> #include <windows.h>
> 
> static char doc_memstat[] =
>     "Returns list of 7 integers:\n"
>     "   [0]: percent of memory in use\n"
>     "   [1]: bytes of physical memory\n"
>     "   [2]: free physical memory bytes\n"
>     "   [3]: bytes of paging file\n"
>     "   [4]: free bytes of paging file\n"
>     "   [5]: user bytes of address space\n"
>     "   [6]: free user bytes\n";
> 
> static PyObject *
> memorystatus_memstat(PyObject *self, PyObject *args)
> {
>     PyObject *rv;
>     MEMORYSTATUS ms;
>     GlobalMemoryStatus( &ms );
> 
>     if (!PyArg_ParseTuple(args, "")) /* No arguments */
>         return NULL;
>     rv = Py_BuildValue("[i,i,i,i,i,i,i]",
>         ms.dwMemoryLoad,    // percent of memory in use 
>         ms.dwTotalPhys,     // bytes of physical memory 
>         ms.dwAvailPhys,     // free physical memory bytes 
>         ms.dwTotalPageFile, // bytes of paging file 
>         ms.dwAvailPageFile, // free bytes of paging file 
>         ms.dwTotalVirtual,  // user bytes of address space 
>         ms.dwAvailVirtual   // free user bytes 
>     ); 
>     return rv;
> }
> 
> /* List of functions defined in the module */
> static struct PyMethodDef memorystatus_module_methods[] = {
>     {"memstat", memorystatus_memstat, METH_VARARGS, doc_memstat},
>     {NULL, NULL}                 /* sentinel */
> };
> 
> 
> /* Initialization function for the module (*must* be called initmemorystatus) */
> static char doc_memorystatus[] = "Get win32 memory status numbers (see memstat method)";
> 
> DL_EXPORT(void)
> initmemorystatus(void)
> {
>     PyObject *m, *d, *x;
> 
>     /* Create the module and add the functions */
>     m = Py_InitModule("memorystatus", memorystatus_module_methods);
>     d = PyModule_GetDict(m);
>     x = PyString_FromString(doc_memorystatus);
>     PyDict_SetItemString(d, "__doc__", x);
>     Py_XDECREF(x);
> }
> ===================================================================
> 
> You may find a little .cmd file like this (tailored to your system) handy:
> 
> [10:55] C:\pywk\ut\memorystatus>type \util\mkpydll.cmd
> @cl -LD -nologo -Id:\python22\include %1.c -link -LIBPATH:D:\python22\libs -export:init%1
> 
> [10:56] C:\pywk\ut\memorystatus>mkpydll memorystatus
> memorystatus.c
>    Creating library memorystatus.lib and object memorystatus.exp
> 
> [10:56] C:\pywk\ut\memorystatus>python
> 
> (I'll indent this one space to avoid spurious quote highlights)
> 
>  Python 2.2.2 (#37, Oct 14 2002, 17:02:34) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
>  Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>  >>> import memorystatus
>  >>> help(memorystatus)
>  Help on module memorystatus:
> 
>  NAME
>      memorystatus - Get win32 memory status numbers (see memstat method)
> 
>  FILE
>      c:\pywk\ut\memorystatus\memorystatus.dll
> 
>  FUNCTIONS
>      memstat(...)
>          Returns list of 7 integers:
>          [0]: percent of memory in use
>          [1]: bytes of physical memory
>          [2]: free physical memory bytes
>          [3]: bytes of paging file
>          [4]: free bytes of paging file
>          [5]: user bytes of address space
>          [6]: free user bytes
> 
>  DATA
>      __file__ = 'memorystatus.dll'
>      __name__ = 'memorystatus'
> 
> 
>  >>> memorystatus.memstat()
>  [0, 334929920, 271536128, 942825472, 861339648, 2147352576, 2129780736]
> 
> Warning: Just now did this. Not tested beyond what you see!!
> 
> Regards,
> Bengt Richter




From guettler at thomas-guettler.de  Thu Jul 24 06:12:18 2003
From: guettler at thomas-guettler.de (Thomas =?ISO-8859-15?Q?G=FCttler?=)
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 12:12:18 +0200
Subject: zope  ZMySQLDA
References: <rZmdnVc4WPWOQIOiRTvUrg@net1plus.com>
Message-ID: <bfobe2$h17es$1@ID-63505.news.uni-berlin.de>

Don Rivard wrote:

> zope 2.71b
> ZMySQLDA 2.08
> MySQL-python-0.9.2
> mysql 3.23.55NT
> 
> When I attempt to connect, by creating a Add Z MySQL Database Connection,
> I set the connection string
> to database user password, and i keep getting the following error
> Site Error
> An error was encountered while publishing this resource.
> 
> Error Type: AttributeError
> Error Value: server_capabilities

Hi,

If you want to see the stacktrace in error messages put 
<dtml-var error_tb> 
in the standard_error_message of Zope. This needs to be done
trough the web and is very handy for debugging.

The stacktrace shows you the file and the line where
the error occured. Maybe this helps you to find your problem.

 thomas





From mis6 at pitt.edu  Thu Jul 31 12:53:45 2003
From: mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato)
Date: 31 Jul 2003 09:53:45 -0700
Subject: curses newwin
Message-ID: <2259b0e2.0307310853.23972d6d@posting.google.com>

I have just performed this experiment with curses:

from curses import *

maxwidth=79
maxheight=21

def wait4q(stdscr):
    scr=stdscr
    scr.addstr("Press 'q' to exit\n")
    x,y,=0,0
    while True:
        c=scr.getch() 
        if c==KEY_LEFT and x > 0:
            x-=1; scr.move(y,x)
        elif c==KEY_RIGHT and x < maxwidth:
            x+=1; scr.move(y,x)
        elif c==KEY_UP and y > 0:
            y-=1; scr.move(y,x)
        elif c==KEY_DOWN and y < maxheight:
            y+=1; scr.move(y,x)
        elif c==ord('q'):
            break

if __name__=='__main__':
    wrapper(wait4q)

It works fine and one can move the cursor on the screen. The question
is: why that does not work for a generic window different from stdscr?
i.e. if I replace the line  ``scr=stdscr`` with
``scr=newwin(0,0)``I don't see the cursor moving anymore. 
The 'q' is still recognized, however. I tried with some
refresh(), but didn't work. What I am missing?

TIA,

       Michele



From ambiod at sbcglobal.net  Mon Jul 21 02:50:42 2003
From: ambiod at sbcglobal.net (ryan)
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 23:50:42 -0700
Subject: py2exe prob
Message-ID: <001901c34f54$67f59220$58fb7243@h5p1n4>

my program uses unicode functions and so i compile like:
"python setup.py py2exe --packages encodings"

which seems to create unicodedata.pyd and zlib.pyd, the problem is when i
run my exe it acts like it didnt do that, it still gives me the error:

ImportError: No module named warnings
warning: assignment shadows builtin
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<string>", line 110, in ?
  File "<string>", line 82, in main
  File "handle_keyboard.pyc", line 113, in handle_keyboard
  File "open_url.pyc", line 126, in open_url
  File "input_box.pyc", line 53, in ask
  File "input_box.pyc", line 21, in get_key
LookupError: no codec search functions registered: can't find encoding

also at the top of the error it said:
ImportError: No module named warnings
warning: assignment shadows builtin

anyone know how to fix this or at least what it means?





From mwh at python.net  Tue Jul 22 14:18:29 2003
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 18:18:29 GMT
Subject: Check from C that Interpreter is running
References: <oprsp304amttxc4i@news.t-online.de>
Message-ID: <7h3r84ixwib.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

Florian Schulze <florian.proff.schulze at gmx.net> writes:

> Hi!
> 
> I want to check from C that the Python Interpreter is still running
> and it's save to call things like PySys_GetObject, PyFile_WriteString
> etc. I need this in a C function which might be called during shutdown
> in a program embedding Python. Currently I get this error:
> 
> Fatal Python error: PyThreadState_Get: no current thread
> Abort!

Py_IsInitialized?

Cheers,
mwh

-- 
  The proponent of the PEP shall be placed in a gladiatorial arena
  together with half a dozen hungry lions, and permitted to debate 
  the merits of the proposal with them.
                                       -- Greg Ewing, comp.lang.python



From alanmk at hotmail.com  Sun Jul  6 09:29:57 2003
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Sun, 06 Jul 2003 14:29:57 +0100
Subject: Collective memory (was: Good code patterns in Python)
References: <mailman.1057083728.8224.python-list@python.org> <vg88va53uha8e@corp.supernews.com> <hff5eb.e9h.ln@escape.shannon.net> <mailman.1057466710.31483.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3F082455.D2E0FB@hotmail.com>

Andrew Bennetts wrote:

> C code is indented to reflect its structure, but uses braces to reflect
> that structure.  This is IMHO worse.
> 
>     if (something)
>         work();
>         more_work();
>         add_numbers();

Back in my C programming days (late 80s, 90s), I used to always indent
my code python style anyway (before I even knew of the existence of
python, ABC, etc). For example

if (cond)
    {
    work();
    more_work();
    }
else
    {
    other_work();
    and_yet_more();
    }

And I still write all my java that way to this day.

I occasionally got and get some complaints/ribbing from co-workers,
who most often preferred a style like this :-

if (cond) {
    work();
    more_work();
} else {
    otherwork();
}

But to me that was far less readable, especially when there are
multiple nested if/switch/while/etc statements. OK, you can find out
out where code blocks begin and end by using the bracket matching
facilities available in most editors, but that's no use to you when
you're reading a hard-copy printout, for example.

And in practically every C job I ever did, I used to get compliments
from "occasional programmers" (e.g. hardware engineers), who sometimes
had to work with my code to make minor changes. They would say things
like "your code is so easy to read", "I was able to find really
quickly the bit that I needed to change", etc. It was only the full
time programmers who complained, and they were generally from the "it
was hard to write, it should be hard to read" camp.

When I found python (oh serendipity :-), the indentation was
completely natural to me, and I got it right from my very first if
statement. It made my source look more readable, since it did away
with all those lines containing only '{' and '}'.

born-to-code-python-style-ly yrs :-)

-- 
alan kennedy
-----------------------------------------------------
check http headers here: http://xhaus.com/headers
email alan:              http://xhaus.com/mailto/alan



From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Thu Jul 17 19:46:31 2003
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 17 Jul 2003 19:46:31 -0400
Subject: A challenge to the ASCII proponents.
References: <mailman.1058278343.23104.python-list@python.org> <Xns93BB246FDDBCFJanC@213.118.75.80> <3F168011.3AEB3EFC@hotmail.com> <3F172442.2040907@v.loewis.de>
Message-ID: <bf7cgn$6p8$1@panix3.panix.com>

In article <3F172442.2040907 at v.loewis.de>,
Martin v. Loewis <martin at v.loewis.de> wrote:
>
>So what do you think about this message?:
>
>????????????????

Well, that renders as

.......<1/2 symbol>.....o..

in trn3.6 running in a vt100 emulator window, and it renders as

.......<1/2 symbol>.~I.~C.o.~I

when I started up vi to follow up (again in the vt100 emulator).
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

A: No.
Q: Is top-posting okay?



From intentionally at blank.co.uk  Sun Jul 13 15:39:56 2003
From: intentionally at blank.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 20:39:56 +0100
Subject: anything like C++ references?
References: <13t0hvsb7idh0g6ac3upe5k0qd6flc17ah@4ax.com> <pan.2003.07.13.10.58.11.376531@127.0.0.1> <lq-cnWRG9rRuMIyiXTWJjQ@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <b8c3hvsesjoumiboobml3nsnajtha99mp1@4ax.com>

On Sun, 13 Jul 2003 15:07:23 -0400, "Terry Reedy" <tjreedy at udel.edu>
wrote:

>How a particular interpreter performs name binding is its own
>business, as long as the specified semantics are implemented.

You could use the same argument to rationalise a language which used
the + operator to express subtraction.

The fact is that 'assignment' has a common meaning separate from the
choice of programming language, and that the way Python handles name
binding means that meaning is not respected by Python for mutable
objects.

>What any computer does is
>probably significantly different from what human interpreters do.

And using references with a copy-on-write or lazy-assignment system is
different to immediate copying of values, but that is irrelevent as
both systems respect the common meaning of assignment.

Python, however, does not respect this meaning. It uses an arbitrary
distinction based on whether or not the object has internals that can
be usefully in-place modified, and uses that distinction to vary the
effect of assignment in an arbitrary, inconsistent and error-prone
way. The need for a distinct tuple type is a symptom of the arbitrary
nature of this.

I've already posted too much on this, so this is going to be the end
to it. But Pythons semantics with regard to mutable and immutable
objects are simply bizarre. A historic justification may be plausible
and backward compatibility is then an important issue, but I really
cannot accept claims that Python is doing the right thing here.




From theller at python.net  Thu Jul 31 14:00:23 2003
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 20:00:23 +0200
Subject: Retrieve source filename
References: <3f29207d$0$24768$626a54ce@news.free.fr> <3f2952da$0$49110$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <ispivao8.fsf@python.net>

Irmen de Jong <irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl> writes:

> Shrom wrote:
>
>> I know that you can retrieve main file name with sys.argv[0] and file name
>> for a module with modulename.__file__ but is there a common way to retrieve
>> file name for both main program and modules as the __FILE__ constant in PHP
>> ?
>
> I don't know if it's the "right" way, but this works:
>
> import inspect
> print inspect.getfile(inspect.currentframe())
>
This one should also work:

if __name__ == "__main__":
    import sys
    __file__ = sys.argv[0]

Thomas



From JensRie at gmx.de  Thu Jul 10 07:22:28 2003
From: JensRie at gmx.de (Jens Riedel)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 13:22:28 +0200
Subject: Zope problem:  objectValues('Folder')
References: <3F0D11C7.4010805@gmx.de> <3F0D21D4.3040902@mxm.dk> <3F0D2405.1070606@gmx.de> <3F0D2EAC.2010605@mxm.dk>
Message-ID: <3F0D4C74.5040304@gmx.de>

The problem seems to be somewhere else:

I used the objectValues('Folder')-method in a DTML-method named 
'navigation'. I include <dtml-var navigation> in a 
'standard_html_header' DTML method, and this standard_html_header is 
used in the index_html document.
All three are in the same folder which contains 3 Subfolders. If I view 
'navigation' or 'standard_html_header' in the management area, I see the 
3 folders, but in the index_html they don't appear. Everything else in 
the standard_html_header, like stylesheets etc. are correctly shown so 
I'm sure that the correct standard_html_header is included.

Jens




From gregbrunet at NOSPAMsempersoft.com  Thu Jul 31 20:59:11 2003
From: gregbrunet at NOSPAMsempersoft.com (Greg Brunet)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 19:59:11 -0500
Subject: What does "*list" mean?
References: <fb0466d1.0307310929.3c8eb2a3@posting.google.com> <bgbkmf$gn9$05$1@news.t-online.com> <mfiWa.308$W%3.168@nwrdny01.gnilink.net>
Message-ID: <vijk92i4un5ifa@corp.supernews.com>

"Raymond Hettinger" <vze4rx4y at verizon.net> wrote in message
news:mfiWa.308$W%3.168 at nwrdny01.gnilink.net...
> Hmm, it sounds like the *args calling format
> needs to be added to the tutorial.
>
>
> Raymond Hettinger

And also added to the index of the reference manual!  I remember trying
to figure it out the first time that I ran into it - it's pretty
frustrating to not be able to look up these kinds of 'special' symbols.

-- Greg




From neil.padgen at mon.bbc.co.uk  Mon Jul 28 11:45:39 2003
From: neil.padgen at mon.bbc.co.uk (Neil Padgen)
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 15:45:39 +0000
Subject: DOM as a flat dictionary
References: <3f21335a_2@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com>
Message-ID: <bg3gf3$msl$1@nntp0.reith.bbc.co.uk>

On Friday 25 July 2003 13:38, don't dash! wrote:

> My thought was to generate a flat dictionary representation of the
> foreign
> and local formats with the absolute Xpath expression as dictionary
> key.  The user is presented with a list of elements&attributes in
> the local file and
> asked to select the foreign element|attribute fills that role.  I
> could then use the keys from this mapping to generate XSLT which can
> be stored.
> 
> Using dictionary keys means that duplicate elements will be lost,
> but this is not problematic since I am attempting to map the
> structure not the
> content.  What are the other implications of this approach?  Or is
> there an easier way to do what that I cannot find in Google?

You'll lose any ordering of the elements.

With the XML

<spam>
  <eggs/>
  <bacon/>
  <lobster_thermidor accompaniment="crevettes" sauce="mornay"
                     topping="fried_egg">
    <more_spam/>
  <lobster_thermidor>
</spam>

translated into a flat dictionary

{
  '/spam': True,
  '/spam/eggs': True,
  '/spam/bacon': True,
  '/spam/lobster_thermidor': True,
  '/spam/lobster_thermidor/more_spam': True,
}

there is no way that you can tell whether /spam/eggs comes before
/spam/bacon in the original XML.

-- Neil



From mgerrans at mindspring.com  Wed Jul 23 03:59:32 2003
From: mgerrans at mindspring.com (Matt Gerrans)
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 00:59:32 -0700
Subject: Python and VS.Net
References: <mailman.1058934395.4215.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bflf99$aqd$1@slb9.atl.mindspring.net>

> > My boss seems to think it is good to have programs that are in managed
> > code because it is more 'portable'.  Not that there's another complete
> > .NET runtime besides Microsoft's but he does not understand that.

By the way, just because you compile something with the compiler that comes
with .NET doesn't mean it is managed code.    In particular, if you did
compile Python with it, I don't think the result will be any more managed
than the what you compiled with a previous version of the Microsoft
compiler.

Anyway, Python is *already* more portable than .NET and it is *already*
managed code running in a "managed" environment.   It is called the
interpreter (or "virtual machine" in Sun's parlance, or "runtime" as
Microsoft would have it -- "A rose is a rose is a rose is a rose.").

If your Python code could thereby access the .NET libraries, that would be
another story.   That would be like Jython for .NET.   I was hoping that was
what Active State's Python-in-VS.NET-thingy was, but alas it was too good to
be true: it is only (so far) a color-syntaxing Python editor that takes two
or three minutes to load up.

- Matt





From puccio_13 at yahoo.it  Mon Jul 21 05:55:49 2003
From: puccio_13 at yahoo.it (Alessio Pace)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 11:55:49 +0200
Subject: distutils.core not in Debian python2.2 package
References: <pfjSa.730$zu1.8428@reggie.win.bright.net> <qnkbrvq2glk.fsf@arbutus.physics.mcmaster.ca> <bAuSa.747$zu1.8518@reggie.win.bright.net> <qnk7k6c37au.fsf@arbutus.physics.mcmaster.ca>
Message-ID: <N_OSa.18402$sj6.370889@tornado.fastwebnet.it>

I wonder why the corresponding package python2.3-dev does not exist..
No distutils for python2.3 developers? 

-- 
bye
Alessio Pace


David M. Cooke wrote:

> At some point, Kent Tenney <kent at NOSPAMspringfed.com> wrote:
> 
>> David M. Cooke wrote:
>>> At some point, Kent Tenney <kent at NOSPAMspringfed.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>Howdy,
>>>>
>>>>I did;
>>>># apt-get install python2.2
>>>>
>>>># python
>>>>Python 2.2.1
>>>>...
>>>> >>>
>>>>
>>>>then checked docutils out of CVS
>>>>and did;
>>>>
>>>>docutils# python ./setup.py install
>>>>
>>>>ImportError: No module named distutils.core
>>>>
>>>>How do I install distutils?
>>> Install the python2.2-dev package.
>>
>> It surprises me to find distutils in a package described as:
>>
>> "Header files and a static library for Python (v2.2)"
>>
>> Kent
> 
> 
> Except in the extended description, where it says
> """
>  Includes the python distutils, which were in a separate package up to
>  version 1.5.2.
> """
> 
> In general, if you need to compile, or develop, you need the
> corresponding *-dev packages.
> 





From jjl at pobox.com  Wed Jul 30 18:27:35 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 30 Jul 2003 23:27:35 +0100
Subject: unittest problems
References: <hawkfish-F7E02E.13212328072003@tribune.sj.sys.us.xo.net> <87el095733.fsf@pobox.com> <hawkfish-0A44BD.10550430072003@spectator.sj.sys.us.xo.net>
Message-ID: <87k79z8xbc.fsf@pobox.com>

Richard Wesley <hawkfish at trustedmedianetworks.com> writes:
[...]
> worked and the main unit_test.py will run everything.   I used your 
> code, driving it with the results of os.path.walk and parameterizing the 
[...]

*My* code?  Well, fine, I suppose, but probably Bernhard Herzog's &
 somebody else's posts there had better code...


John



From rastm2 at aol.commorespam  Sun Jul 20 14:36:06 2003
From: rastm2 at aol.commorespam (Raymond Arthur St. Marie II of III )
Date: 20 Jul 2003 18:36:06 GMT
Subject: List of declared variables in interactive Python session?
References: <bfc9t5$ued$1@news3.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>
Message-ID: <20030720143606.18124.00000262@mb-m15.aol.com>

>> Hello.
>>
>> Is there a way to list all the declared variables in an interactive
>> Python session?
>
>use "vars() "
>
>HTH,
>
>Vincent Wehren
>
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Fredrik
>>
>
>

I got one for ya. 

I read some where that when the dir( ) has a lot of stuff in it, it is
convenient to use a for loop to see the contents. (example follows) 
Now the reason for my 2 cents in this post. 

>>> 

>>> dir( )

['__builtins__', '__doc__', '__name__', 'pywin']

>>> for d in dir(): print d
... 

__builtins__
__doc__
__name__
pywin

>>> vars( )

{'d': 'pywin', '__builtins__': <module '__builtin__' (built-in)>, '__name__':
'__main__', 'pywin': <module 'pywin' from
'C:\PYTHON22\lib\site-packages\Pythonwin\pywin\__init__.pyc'>, '__doc__': None}

>>> for v in vars(): print v
... 

d   ### prints the first variable I declared in the first for loop then        
   

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<interactive input>", line 1, in ?
RuntimeError: dictionary changed size during iteration

     ### opps no v in the dir( ) so...
>>> for v in vars(): print v
... 

d
v
__builtins__
__name__
pywin
__doc__

>>>

You can see that you can print the same kind of display for vars( ) as you can
for the dir( ), so long as your iterater variable is declared previous to the
for loop.

Ray St.M
Proudly stating the obvious since birth.



From mgerrans at mindspring.com  Mon Jul 14 15:14:38 2003
From: mgerrans at mindspring.com (Matt Gerrans)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 12:14:38 -0700
Subject: some questions
References: <3f12f613$0$8731$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
Message-ID: <beuvfj$o25$1@slb4.atl.mindspring.net>

"Andreas Bauer" wrote:
> I need some information on how to deal with strings which I have
> divided by using split(). I'm new to python and don't know how to
> handle these split up strings.

Hmm, doesn't that kind of depend on what you want to do with them?

> And I some one could recommend a good tutorial I would be very
> glad.

Where have you already looked?   Have you tried "Python tutorial" on google?
Have you tried Python.org?   Python itself comes with a tutorial (maybe you
are unaware of this, or maybe you want another?).

> Can't hardly find any.

Was ist das?  Can't or can?  Or do you really mean "Can't hardly find
nothin'?"   ;-)





From max at alcyone.com  Fri Jul 18 00:54:10 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 21:54:10 -0700
Subject: A challenge to the ASCII proponents.
References: <mailman.1058278343.23104.python-list@python.org> <bf167a$pvt$1@panix2.panix.com> <ufzl7rdno.fsf@online.no> <3F142A58.80426AA4@hotmail.com> <2259b0e2.0307161620.4a9353f1@posting.google.com> <Xns93BB246FDDBCFJanC@213.118.75.80> <3F168011.3AEB3EFC@hotmail.com> <3F172442.2040907@v.loewis.de>
Message-ID: <3F177D72.FF10EAEA@alcyone.com>

"Martin v. Loewis" wrote:

> So what do you think about this message?:
> 
> [non ASCII characters]
> 
> Look Ma, no markup.

Yeah, but that only works if everyone's expecting the same encoding.  I
just see garbage non-ASCII characters, for instance, with my lowly
Netscape 4 newsreader.

> And not every character uses two bytes, either.

Looked like it was probably was here, I saw what looked very strongly
like eight double-byte characters (and two bytes each).

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ Wretches hang that jurymen may dine.
\__/  Alexander Pope



From news at garthy.com  Thu Jul 24 16:18:53 2003
From: news at garthy.com (Garth)
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 21:18:53 +0100
Subject: possible error in socketmodule / asyncore on win32
Message-ID: <U8XTa.56405$Df6.54141@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk>

Hi,

I think there's an error in ther socketmodule.c code
under windows. The code in internal connect should test
  exceptfds to check for connecttion refused. If this is so it
should call getsockopt(SOL_SOCKET, SO_ERROR,..) to get the error
status. (Source microsoft Platform SDK)

If this isn't then the asynccore module fails on windows and never
returns connection refused.

The code should probably look something like this (untested)

if (s->sock_timeout > 0.0) {
     if (res < 0 && WSAGetLastError() == WSAEWOULDBLOCK) {
	/* This is a mess.  Best solution: trust select */
	fd_set exfds;
	struct timeval tv;
	tv.tv_sec = (int)s->sock_timeout;
	tv.tv_usec = (int)((s->sock_timeout - tv.tv_sec) * 1e6);
	FD_ZERO(&exfds);
	FD_SET(s->sock_fd, &exfds);
	/* Platform SDK says so */
	res = select(s->sock_fd+1, NULL, NULL, &exfds, &tv);
	if (res == 0)
	{
	    if( FD_ISSET( &exfds ) )
	    {
		/* Get the real reason */
			getsockopt(s->sock_fd,SOL_SOCKET,SO_ERROR,(char*)&res,sizeof(res));
	    }
	    else
	    {
		res = 0;
	    }
	}
	else if (res > 0)
	{
	    res = WSAGetLastError();
	}
     }
} else if (res < 0)
     res = WSAGetLastError();

This still doesn't solve the problem in asyncore as it doesn't test 
exfss. I guess it should test exfs if it's not connected (again not tested)

def poll(timeout=0.0, map=None):
     if map is None:
         map = socket_map
     if map:
         r = []; w = []; e = []
         for fd, obj in map.items():
             if obj.readable():
                 r.append(fd)
             if obj.writable():
                 w.append(fd)

             if sys.platform == 'win32':
                 if not obj.connected:
                     e.append(fd)
         if [] == r == w == e:
             time.sleep(timeout)
         else:
             try:
                 r, w, e = select.select(r, w, e, timeout)
             except select.error, err:
                 if err[0] != EINTR:
                     raise
                 else:
                     return

         if sys.platform == 'win32':
             for fd in e:
                 obj = map.get(fd)
                 if obj is None:
                     continue
                 errno = fs.getsockopt(socket.SOL_SOCKET, socket.SO_ERROR)
                 raise socket.error,(errno,socketerrorTab[error])

         for fd in r:
             obj = map.get(fd)
             if obj is None:
                 continue
             read(obj)

         for fd in w:
             obj = map.get(fd)
             if obj is None:
                 continue
             write(obj)

Not really sure where to report this so I'm posting here.

This is all against 2.3c1

(Cheers to all for a wicked language.)

Garth






From usc_dog at yahoo.com  Tue Jul 29 14:54:16 2003
From: usc_dog at yahoo.com (q)
Date: 29 Jul 2003 11:54:16 -0700
Subject: Python..Tkinter..PYTHONPATH..
Message-ID: <f0b58f95.0307291054.4bc43c26@posting.google.com>

Hi...

I have a Linux RH8.0 system. I installed Python2.2 from the 8.0 ISO
updates. I installed the Tcl 8.3.3 from the Tcl site... I also
installed the tcllib 1.0.

My goal is to get viewcvs to run. However, when I check to see where
the system thinks things are, the PYTHONPATH env var is blank.

echo $PYTHONPATH --> produces nothing....

So, can anyone tell me what it should say? Can anyone shed any light
as to how this var is populated, and why it might be blank....? Can
anyone suggest what file I need to alter/should modify to have this
properly set whenever a user logs into the system....?

Thanks

Bruce
bedouglas at earthlink.net



From skip at pobox.com  Mon Jul 21 01:55:16 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 00:55:16 -0500
Subject: PythonQuestions forum - does it exist?
In-Reply-To: <pan.2003.07.21.05.13.23.117151@antispam.com>
References: <pan.2003.07.21.05.13.23.117151@antispam.com>
Message-ID: <16155.32836.938522.634@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    Alex> I'm wondering if there is a help forum for Python on the web
    Alex> similar to LinuxQuestions.org?

There's no web-based forum that I'm aware of, however there are a number of
resources:

    tutor at python.org - subscribe at http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
    help at python.org - no need to subscribe - just post your questions
    The newbies page - lots of pointers - http://www.python.org/doc/Newbies.html

Skip




From gh at ghaering.de  Thu Jul 17 11:43:03 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 17:43:03 +0200
Subject: what u'=' mean???
In-Reply-To: <200307171224.57003.cybersamurai@mac.com>
References: <200307171224.57003.cybersamurai@mac.com>
Message-ID: <3F16C407.702@ghaering.de>

Luiz Siqueira Neto wrote:
> What 
> ----
> u'=' 
> ----
> mean?? [...]

It's a Unicode string literal. Unicode strings are explained in the 
tutorial here: 
http://python.org/doc/current/tut/node5.html#SECTION005130000000000000000

-- Gerhard




From ronald at PassTheDairy.net  Thu Jul  3 13:34:18 2003
From: ronald at PassTheDairy.net (BearMan)
Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 17:34:18 GMT
Subject: A story about Python... sort of
References: <3f03f430$0$97222$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk> <KwWMa.3332$Aw.3042@twister.nyc.rr.com> <3F043B22.19FE79AE@engcorp.com> <FiZMa.2097$_k2.145814@nnrp1.ptd.net> <dGZMa.5172$351.1725266@twister.nyc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <uOZMa.2100$_k2.145500@nnrp1.ptd.net>

Agreed...





From Adrien.DiMascio at logilab.fr  Fri Jul  4 06:51:56 2003
From: Adrien.DiMascio at logilab.fr (Adrien Di Mascio)
Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 12:51:56 +0200
Subject: Question about "exec in globals, locals"
In-Reply-To: <57de9986.0307040041.553ff329@posting.google.com>
References: <57de9986.0307040041.553ff329@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20030704105156.GB19558@logilab.fr>

Hi,
> source = """
> class FirstClass:
>     pass
> class SecondClass:
>     References = [FirstClass]
> """


When you specify both locals() and globals(), here's what happen :

"""
class FirstClass:
    pass

## ---------> Here, your locals() dict have been updated, but not your
## globals() one.
## But, here, you can do : References = [FirstClass] since your
## locals()
## know about 'FirstClass'

class SecondClass:
    ## ---------> Here, your locals() dict is a new one since you've
    just
    ## entered a new scope. So, 'FirstClass' is neither defined in
    ## 'locals()' nor in 'globals()', that's why you have your
    NameError
"""

I'm not quite sure of my explanation, but that could explain your
problem. Sorry if I've made any Python mistake.

Cheers,

-- 
Adrien Di Mascio
LOGILAB, Paris (France).
http://www.logilab.com   http://www.logilab.fr   http://www.logilab.org





From thedustbustr at aol.com  Fri Jul 25 09:03:37 2003
From: thedustbustr at aol.com (TheDustbustr)
Date: 25 Jul 2003 13:03:37 GMT
Subject: generator within a generator doesn't execute?
Message-ID: <20030725090337.24383.00000414@mb-m16.aol.com>

from __future__ import generators
from time import time

threads=[]

def xsleep(n):
    t=time()
    while (t+n>time()): 
        yield None

def sleep(n):
    for i in xsleep(n): pass

def cutscene():
    yield None #start on second pass

    print "\nEvil Death Knight: I will kill you now!"

    sleep(1.5)
    #t=time()
    #while (t+1.5>time()): yield None

    print "\nOur Hero: I shall fight you to the death.  Bring it on!"

    sleep(3)
    #t=time()
    #while (t+3>time()): yield None

    print "\nEnd of cutscene."

def ticker():
    yield None #wait till second time through
    print "."
    t=time()
    while 1:
        while (t+.5>time()): yield None
        t=time()
        #sleep(.5)
        print "."

def scheduler():
    global threads
    try:
        while 1:
            for thread in threads: thread.next()
    except StopIteration:
        pass
        
if __name__=="__main__":
    threads.append(ticker())
    threads.append(cutscene())
    scheduler()

I added xsleep() (a generator) and modified sleep() (now, not a generator). 
cutscene() works as expected.  Why does sleep() block execution of ticker()? 
Shouldn't xsleep() yield to the scheduler to allow ticker() to run?

Is there any way, save using Stackless Python microthreads, to make the sleep
function 'just work' transparently?




From fredrik at pythonware.com  Wed Jul  2 06:05:29 2003
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 12:05:29 +0200
Subject: arbitrary long integer aritmetics
References: <bdtv1s$22dm$1@otis.netspace.net.au>
Message-ID: <bduaof$4qu$1@main.gmane.org>

"Leo" wrote:

> is there a python module around allow using arbitrary long integers?

nope, but it's built into the language:

    http://www.python.org/doc/current/ref/integers.html
    http://www.python.org/doc/current/ref/types.html

> i.e. the result of an integer operation is as long as necessary, so that a*b
> never produces an overflow error.

what's an overflow error? ;-)

$ python
Python 2.2
>>> import sys
>>> sys.maxint
2147483647
>>> 2147483647 * 2147483647 * 2147483647
4611686014132420609L

(note the trailing L).

</F>







From jack at performancedrivers.com  Tue Jul 22 06:26:22 2003
From: jack at performancedrivers.com (Jack Diederich)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 06:26:22 -0400
Subject: Python Mystery Theatre -- Episode 3:  Extend this
In-Reply-To: <8FC4E7C302A6A64AAD5DB1FA0E825DEB04F4DD@hendrix.empolisuk.com>; from hst@empolis.co.uk on Tue, Jul 22, 2003 at 10:49:41AM +0100
References: <8FC4E7C302A6A64AAD5DB1FA0E825DEB04F4DD@hendrix.empolisuk.com>
Message-ID: <20030722062622.A1208@localhost.localdomain>

On Tue, Jul 22, 2003 at 10:49:41AM +0100, Harvey Thomas wrote:
> Raymond Hettinger wrote:
> > i, j, a[i], a[j], swaps = j, i, a[j], a[i], swaps+1
>  
> It's a quick and dirty bubble sort. Not sure what's wrong without running the code, but it looks wrong to mess around with the loop indices. Perhaps the swapping line should read
> a[i], a[j], swaps = a[j], a[i], swaps+1. BTW isn't there an indentation error in the code?
> > 

I didn't bother checking if the side effect in that line was ruinous or not,
but it certainly is frightening.  Here is my test of the same abuse

>>> l = list('abc')
>>> l
['a', 'b', 'c']
>>> (i, l[i], i, l[i]) = (0,'X',1,'Y')
>>> l
['X', 'Y', 'c']

Could we call that undefined, just to scare people from using it?  Showing
up to their office with a bat is sometimes impractical.

-jack




From mcherm at mcherm.com  Wed Jul  2 19:06:58 2003
From: mcherm at mcherm.com (Michael Chermside)
Date: Wed,  2 Jul 2003 16:06:58 -0700
Subject: Clever One Liners
Message-ID: <1057187218.3f036592c353c@mcherm.com>

Hannu Kankaanp?? writes:
> Could be even written as a perverted one-liner.

I'm not picking on you in particular, there have been several people
doing this lately, but I'd like to ask folks to please lay off the
quest for one-liners.

I understand the neat, oh-so-clever feeling one gets by trying to
cram the most functionality into the least space, but if you're going
to try that, do it in Perl (or better yet, APL) where it works so
much better. I'm not putting down the exercise... I realize that it's
all in good fun... but people who are new to Python and who read this
newsgroup might get the wrong idea if they see a clever one-liner
proposed as the solution for every easy question. It's simply NOT 
Pythonic to try to write clever one-liners, and we don't want to let
newbies think it's appropriate.

> ...Maybe a real 'for' loop for getting the words would be better
> in this case though. So that the input could be verified too.

See, I can bring this up in response to Hannu's posting without 
pointing fingers since he clearly understands (and points out) the
advantages of a less compact style.

Donning-my-asbestos-suit-now lly,

-- Michael Chermside





From djc at object-craft.com.au  Thu Jul 17 00:44:44 2003
From: djc at object-craft.com.au (Dave Cole)
Date: 17 Jul 2003 14:44:44 +1000
Subject: Documentation examples needed
References: <aUnRa.16108$o54.11296@lakeread05>
Message-ID: <m31xwpoj7n.fsf@ferret.object-craft.com.au>

>>>>> "Stuart" == Stuart D Gathman <stuart at bmsi.com> writes:

Stuart> I am still wanting to produce Python standard format
Stuart> documentation for Python extensions I have written.  I have
Stuart> looked at the docs that come with Python itself, but I am new
Stuart> to Latex, and don't know how to add the document classes and
Stuart> styles from texinput for a new project.

Stuart> Is there a small project with documentation in the Python
Stuart> standard that I can use as an example?

We have some:

        http://www.object-craft.com.au/projects/albatross/
        http://www.object-craft.com.au/projects/sybase/sybase/

- Dave

-- 
http://www.object-craft.com.au



From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Jul  3 12:28:40 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 12:28:40 -0400
Subject: 'For' loop symmetry with list comprehensions.
References: <840592e1.0307021036.508d7d7d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3F0459B8.A8E5FF54@engcorp.com>

Hannu Kankaanp?? wrote:
> 
> One can currently say this with list comprehensions:
> 
> [x.lower() for x in words if x.startswith('foo')]
> 
> Wouldn't it be better if the normal 'for' syntax was symmetrical
> with the notation used in list comprehensions? To be more specific,
> it lacks the 'if' part. I.e. this should be possible:
> 
> for x in words if x.startswith('foo'):
>     print x
> 
> Naturally this is the same as:
> 
> for x in words:
>     if x.startswith('foo'):
>         print x

My brain tends to parse the one-line statement form of the syntax
(which works so nicely in the list-comprehension expression) in a 
different way:

  for x in words if x.startswith('foo'):
      print x

looks more like it is just another way to say:

  if x.startswith('foo'):
     for x in words:
         print x

Besides, hasn't everyone got the idea lately that it should require
a *very strong* benefit to even begin to consider discussion another
change in Python syntax?  

Why do people keep suggesting what amount to trivial tweaks which 
will _never_ pay back the effort that would have to go into the 
discussion and the changes to the compiler, the documentation, and 
everything else, before this would ever be accepted?

-Peter



From legere at ll.mit.edu  Tue Jul 29 08:32:14 2003
From: legere at ll.mit.edu (Ronald Legere)
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 08:32:14 -0400
Subject: Itertools
Message-ID: <KKtVa.8$Y5.1@llslave.llan.ll.mit.edu>

The new itertools stuff is pretty cool. One thing that bothers me though is
that
there seems to be no way to copy an iterator. How does one work around this?
Is
there a trick that I am missing?

Without being able to 'split' an iterator, I can't
think of how to do some of the cool things you can do with lazy lists in
Haskell. It seems
quite often you want to be able to do this 'splitting', and if I
had more coffee I would post an example :) The ones I
can think of are also defined recursively, which is another kettle of fish.

 But I hope that someone knows
what I am talking about and has thought of a way...
Cheers!






From andy47 at halfcooked.com  Thu Jul 31 10:23:50 2003
From: andy47 at halfcooked.com (Andy Todd)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 15:23:50 +0100
Subject: SQL2000 database vs python
In-Reply-To: <55939F05720D954E9602518B77F6127F02F46920@FTWMLVEM01.e2k.ad.ge.com>
References: <55939F05720D954E9602518B77F6127F02F46920@FTWMLVEM01.e2k.ad.ge.com>
Message-ID: <bgb8s2$s4i$1@main.gmane.org>

Raaijmakers, Vincent (IndSys, GE Interlogix) wrote:
> Ok I was too happy.
> 
> mssqldb doesn't help me to connect my python app on a linux OS to a sql2000 (windows os) database.
> I can't even compile the package, I guess it is missing sybase stuff (sybdb.h and sybfront.h), 
> which is correct because I don't have that database.
> Also, mssqldb supports ms sql server 7.0, my hope is that that won't be a problem in using ms sql 2000.
> 
> Pfew, there goes my hope.
> 
> Vincent
> 
[snip]

Have you looked at mxODBC? It will allow you to connect via ODBC from 
linux to SQL Server running on a Windows server.

http://www.egenix.com/files/python/mxODBC.html

Regards,
Andy
-- 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 From the desk of Andrew J Todd esq - http://www.halfcooked.com/






From mis6 at pitt.edu  Sat Jul  5 09:11:51 2003
From: mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato)
Date: 5 Jul 2003 06:11:51 -0700
Subject: Gathering variable names from within a function.
References: <mailman.1057315927.28411.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <2259b0e2.0307050511.55253683@posting.google.com>

"Xavier" <sabu at pure-elite.org> wrote in message news:<mailman.1057315927.28411.python-list at python.org>...
> Greetings,
> 
> I was wondering if there was a way to get a list of all the variables which
> were executed/created/modified within a function?
> 
> Here is a simple example that comes to my mind:
> 
> def getVars(func):
>     ...
>     ...
>     ...
> 
> def modVar(arg, arg2):
> 
>     Var1 = arg
>     Var2 = arg2
>     Var3 = arg+arg2
>     return Var3
> 
> def main():
> 
>     print getVars(modVar('test', 'test2'))
> 
> # end
> 
> naturally, "Var1", "Var2" and "Var3" should be printed to the user.  Any
> idea?
>

What about
 
def modVar(arg, arg2):
    Var1 = arg
    Var2 = arg2
    Var3 = arg+arg2
    print vars()
    return Var3

modVar('test', 'test2')

=>

{'arg2': 'test2', 
'arg': 'test', 
'Var1': 'test', 
'Var3': 'testtest2', 
'Var2': 'test2'}

> -- Xavier
> 
> oderint dum metuant

Michele



From abcdebl2nonspammy at verizon.net  Fri Jul 18 00:31:32 2003
From: abcdebl2nonspammy at verizon.net (David Lees)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 04:31:32 GMT
Subject: Regular expression help
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1058418746.16790.python-list@python.org>
References: <LApRa.5420$Qe5.2628@nwrddc03.gnilink.net> <mailman.1058418746.16790.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <EKKRa.5589$0F4.2536@nwrdny02.gnilink.net>

Andrew Bennetts wrote:
> On Thu, Jul 17, 2003 at 04:27:23AM +0000, David Lees wrote:
> 
>>I forget how to find multiple instances of stuff between tags using 
>>regular expressions.  Specifically I want to find all the text between a 
> 
>                                                ^^^^^^^^
> 
> How about re.findall?
> 
> E.g.:
> 
>     >>> re.findall('BEGIN(.*?)END', 'BEGIN foo END   BEGIN bar END') 
>     [' foo ', ' bar ']
> 
> -Andrew.
> 
> 

Actually this fails with the multi-line type of file I was asking about.

 >>> re.findall('BEGIN(.*?)END', 'BEGIN foo\nmumble END   BEGIN bar END')
[' bar ']




From david.isal at wanadoo.fr  Fri Jul 11 09:58:16 2003
From: david.isal at wanadoo.fr (David Isal)
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 15:58:16 +0200
Subject: Python extension on Windows
Message-ID: <bemf6t$l1r$1@news-reader4.wanadoo.fr>

hi all,
i'm new to python and i'm trying to build a python extension on win98,
written in c++, with cygwin.
but i keep having the same error message, and i didnt't find much 
resources on the web about it:
 >g++ -I/cygdrive/c/python22/include -c demomodule.cpp -o demomodule.o

In file included from /cygdrive/c/python22/include/Python.h:62,
                  from demomodule.cpp:1:
/cygdrive/c/python22/include/pyport.h:480:2: #error "LONG_BIT definition 
appears wrong for platform (bad gcc/glibc config?)."

i read that it is mandatory to use Micro$oft visual c++ to build any 
extensions on windows beacuse it's the same compiler used to build 
python for windows.
does anybody has advices about that?
i would rather use cygwin/g++ but i don't know if it's possible or how 
to fix this error message.
thanks in advance,
David.




From johnfabel at btinternet.com  Tue Jul  8 15:00:31 2003
From: johnfabel at btinternet.com (John Abel)
Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 20:00:31 +0100
Subject: win32security.LogonUser
In-Reply-To: <20030708171923.6788.qmail@web21414.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20030708171923.6788.qmail@web21414.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3F0B14CF.6040102@btinternet.com>

OK, try adding it to "Replace A Process Level Token" (sorry about this, 
when I was trying to get my FTP server running, I forgot to write down, 
which ones I'd changed.  Doh!)

Here's the code I'm using, to adjust the tokens, and the calls that I make:

        self.AdjustPrivilege( ntsecuritycon.SE_CHANGE_NOTIFY_NAME )
        self.AdjustPrivilege( ntsecuritycon.SE_ASSIGNPRIMARYTOKEN_NAME )
        self.AdjustPrivilege( ntsecuritycon.SE_TCB_NAME )


    def AdjustPrivilege( self, priv ):
        flags = ntsecuritycon.TOKEN_ADJUST_PRIVILEGES | 
ntsecuritycon.TOKEN_QUERY
        htoken =  
win32security.OpenProcessToken(win32api.GetCurrentProcess(), flags)
        id = win32security.LookupPrivilegeValue(None, priv)
        newPrivileges = [(id, ntsecuritycon.SE_PRIVILEGE_ENABLED)]
        win32security.AdjustTokenPrivileges(htoken, 0, newPrivileges)

Darrell Gallion wrote:

>Thanks John
>
>That was done with no luck.
>Added it to Administrators and Administrator.
>
>
>
>__________________________________
>Do you Yahoo!?
>SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
>http://sbc.yahoo.com
>
>  
>





From not.valid at address.org  Wed Jul  2 16:04:53 2003
From: not.valid at address.org (not your business)
Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 20:04:53 GMT
Subject: How Do You Get Redirected Input?
References: <l6GMa.6947$n%5.1338@nwrddc02.gnilink.net> <3f0333b6$0$49116$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <FVGMa.12600$JY1.4167@nwrddc01.gnilink.net>

Irmen de Jong wrote:

> not your business wrote:
>> I have a shell tool that accepts arguments on the command line. I would
>> like
>> to check if the input is being piped in.  That is,
>>  
>>         $ mytool.py < cmdlst.txt
>> 
>> In this case sys.argv is empty. So I added
>> 
>>         pipein = os.read(sys.stdin.fileno(),256)
>>         if (pipein):
>>             input_args = pipein.split()
>>         else:
>>             input_args = sys.argv[1:]
>>  
>> Problem is that if nothing is redirected in, the script waits for a Enter
>> pressed on the the keyboard. Anyone know a solution to this?  Thanx in
>> advance for any help.
> 
> Why not turn it around? First check if sys.argv is *not* empty,
> in which case the user provided command line arguments, and
> proceed to parse those. Otherwise (if sys.argv *is* empty),
> assume the input is piped in and proceed to read the standard
> input.
> 
> --Irmen

Okay, but there still seems to be a problem.  Lets say you typed 
        $ mytool.py

If sys.argv[1:] is empty, I want to display help.  But if I'm checking for
redirected input by my problematic method next, the script hangs, again,
waiting for a Enter to be pressed and the user, therefore, doesn't my usage
help.

I think I need to find a way to test for redirected input without the actual
os.read() thing.  One hack that came to mind was to fork() a seperate
process to do this and pipe back within a time period any results. The 
parent could just go on if no response.  But that seems a little extreme
(and ugly) plus it's platform dependent unless, I guess, I it do it with
threads.




From pinard at iro.umontreal.ca  Fri Jul 11 19:38:44 2003
From: pinard at iro.umontreal.ca (=?iso-8859-1?q?Fran=E7ois_Pinard?=)
Date: 11 Jul 2003 19:38:44 -0400
Subject: call one python script from within another
In-Reply-To: <ben27t$hj9$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
References: <ben27t$hj9$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <oqk7aofxbv.fsf@titan.progiciels-bpi.ca>

[Tubby Tudor]

> What is the best way to call one python script from within another python
> script?  For example: one.py finishes succesfully and calls two.py which
> finishes OK and then calls three.py

I do not know if my way is the best way :-), but the following goes fine for
us.  Each of our programs is installed (through `distutils') as a small
bootstrap, on the loader search path, looking like:

---------------------------------------------------------------------->
#!/usr/bin/env python
# [...]

"""\
SHORT_DESCRIPTION.
"""

import sys
from PACKAGE.MODULE import main
main(*sys.argv[1:])
----------------------------------------------------------------------<

and within the main MODULE for the PACKAGE holding the application, we have:

---------------------------------------------------------------------->
#!/usr/bin/env python
# [...]

"""\
LONGER_DESCRITPION.
"""

[...]

def main(*arguments):
    [...]

if __name__ == '__main__':
    main(*sys.argv[1:])
----------------------------------------------------------------------<

We often use this instead, when the complexity warrants it:

---------------------------------------------------------------------->
#!/usr/bin/env python
# [...]

"""\
LONGER_DESCRITPION.
"""

[...]

class Main:
    [...]

    def main(self, *arguments):
        [...]

run = Main()
main = run.main

[...]

if __name__ == '__main__':
    main(*sys.argv[1:])
----------------------------------------------------------------------<

So very systematically, one may call any `main' giving, as string arguments,
what would be successive arguments in a shell command calling that program.

When a Python program needs to "execute" another Python program, it often
does something like:

---------------------------------------------------------------------->
    [...]
    import PACKAGE.MODULE
    PACKAGE.MODULE.main(ARGUMENT1, ARGUMENT2, ...)
----------------------------------------------------------------------<

The only reason we would prefer to `exec' or `fork' another Python process
would be to reclaim the storage taken by the imported package modules code,
in the rather unusual cases it would matter.  As for the rest of the data,
we merely rely on the garbage collector.

If we were in your situation, it is likely that a small driver would
successively call the three programs as above, one after the other.

-- 
Fran?ois Pinard   http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/~pinard




From klapotec at chello.at  Thu Jul 31 23:45:44 2003
From: klapotec at chello.at (Christopher Koppler)
Date: Fri, 01 Aug 2003 03:45:44 GMT
Subject: time, calendar, datetime, etc
References: <vij4ftc5psv054@news.supernews.com> <mailman.1059706262.7454.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <f6ojivk3c87s8memo970n7v0hj6gdb32s4@4ax.com>

On Thu, 31 Jul 2003 22:49:28 -0400, "Tim Peters" <tim.one at comcast.net>
wrote:

>The time module consists of thin wrappers around C's mish-mash of quirky,
>platform-dependent time manipulation functions.  We eventually want to
>pretend the time module never existed <0.9 wink>.  9-tuples are absurd.

No, it's reality that's absurd. C's mish-mash of quirky,
platform-dependent time manipulation stems from the fact that defining
a standard way of handling time is difficult when it's
1. subject to the platform designers interpretation of what is useful,
2. subject to politics and most severely,
3. subject to changes in nature.

Leap seconds!


--Christopher



From mgerrans at mindspring.com  Fri Jul 18 02:40:22 2003
From: mgerrans at mindspring.com (Matt Gerrans)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 23:40:22 -0700
Subject: dumping command-history in python interactive mode
References: <mailman.1058479887.12228.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bf84ot$4iq$1@slb0.atl.mindspring.net>

"Christoph Becker-Freyseng" wrote:
> is there a way to dump (and save) the command-history of the python
> interactive mode.

I don't know about that, but it is pretty easy if you use IDLE.   I always
prefer IDLE over the console interactive mode, unless there is some
particular reason not to (like experimenting with TKinter, or running in a
non-GUI OS.  What?   Where you find such a thing these days?!).

- Matt





From sjmachin at lexicon.net  Tue Jul 15 08:56:09 2003
From: sjmachin at lexicon.net (John Machin)
Date: 15 Jul 2003 05:56:09 -0700
Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Python_Mystery_Theatre_--_Episode_2:__As=ED__Fue?=
References: <VorQa.15236$Kw1.587@nwrdny02.gnilink.net> <8f35dab2.0307141258.3da9b9d4@posting.google.com> <PGJQa.485$LW3.252@nwrdny02.gnilink.net> <6qvfu4jgh1.fsf@salmakis.intevation.de> <m4UoZJA308E$EwjN@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <c76ff6fc.0307150456.59d8440@posting.google.com>

Robin Becker <robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message news:<m4UoZJA308E$EwjN at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>...
> In article <6qvfu4jgh1.fsf at salmakis.intevation.de>, Bernhard Herzog
> <bh at intevation.de> writes
> >"Raymond Hettinger" <vze4rx4y at verizon.net> writes:
> >
> >> [Jason Trowbridge]
> >> > Act I
> >> > I didn't know that python formatting could do that!  I've always
> >> > treated it like C's printf-style of statements, as that seems to be
> >> > what it's primarily based off.
> >> 
> >> That's why this one was included.
> >> Hope everyone learned something new.
> >
> >C's printf can do this too. At least the one in the GNU libc can. It's
> >docs don't say anything about this being a GNU extension so I guess it
> >can be found in other libcs as well, though probably not in all.
> >
> >   Bernhard
> >
> I know that it's in microsoft
> 
> the print width description contains
> 
> '''If the width specification is an asterisk (*), an int argument from
> the argument list supplies the value. The width argument must precede
> the value being formatted in the argument list. A nonexistent or small
> field width does not cause the truncation of a field; if the result of a
> conversion is wider than the field width, the field expands to contain
> the conversion result.'''

It's pretty much bog-standard C. E.g. K&R2, appendix B, section 1.2
says:
'''
Width or precision or both may be specified as *, in which case the
value is computed by converting the next argument(s), which must be
int.
'''

>>> "%+0*.*f" % (10,3,123.45678)
'+00123.457'

There you go, as advertised.



From mis6 at pitt.edu  Tue Jul 15 10:42:01 2003
From: mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato)
Date: 15 Jul 2003 07:42:01 -0700
Subject: focus problem with full-screen in Tkinter
References: <2259b0e2.0307140746.46cf2e8c@posting.google.com> <5a4226f0.0307141400.36684d3b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <2259b0e2.0307150642.4daae156@posting.google.com>

kevin at cazabon.com (Kevin Cazabon) wrote in message news:<5a4226f0.0307141400.36684d3b at posting.google.com>...
> Wouldn't you have to do the bind as:
> 
> root.bind("q",lambda e: root.destroy())
> 
> I don't know if <q> evaluates to the same thing, but I know that
> "normal" keys are not normally enclosed in <>.  It may or may not be
> part of your problem.
> 
> Kevin.


No, the problem is not with "<q>". I have just discovered that it works
perfectly fine under Windows 98SE, therefore it must be some problem of
configuration of Tk under Linux. Any idea?


          Michele



From nospam at mega-nerd.com  Sat Jul 19 23:28:55 2003
From: nospam at mega-nerd.com (Erik de Castro Lopo)
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 03:28:55 GMT
Subject: If stereo WAV file's both channels are identical, change format to 
 mono for all files recursively
References: <mailman.1058605289.13944.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3F1A0C2D.6DBFAB2B@mega-nerd.com>

Raseliarison nirinA wrote:
> 
> hi all,
> i found an unanswered question at
> http://www.faqts.com/knowledge_base/index.phtml/fid/538
> with possible response below. i've tried to send it at
> faqt.python but can't figure out how to edit the page. so i put it here.
> i want to kwon if this can convert all wave file. is there other
> encodage than 8 or 16 bits for .wav files?
> any bug and comment are welcome

Just in case you don't know, there is a Python wrapper
to my own libsndfile ( http://www.zip.com.au/~erikd/libsndfile )
being developed here:

    http://www.arcsin.org/archive/20030520025359.shtml

libsndfile handles a large number of different file types
(AU, AIFF, WAV and many more) as well as many encodings
(8, 16, 24, and 32 bit integer PCM, 23 and 64 bit float 
PCM, A-law, u-law, MS ADPCM, IMA ADPCM, G721, G723 and
so on).

Erik
-- 
+-----------------------------------------------------------+
  Erik de Castro Lopo  nospam at mega-nerd.com (Yes it's valid)
+-----------------------------------------------------------+
"In civilian equipment, such as computers, the number
of components alone makes miniaturization essential if
the computer is to be housed in a reasonable-sized
building." Electronics Oct. 1, 1957, p. 178



From alanmk at hotmail.com  Thu Jul 17 10:19:11 2003
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 15:19:11 +0100
Subject: Co-routines
References: <g7xRa.305$fF.9914@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au>
Message-ID: <3F16B05F.5D8812B8@hotmail.com>

thewrights at ozemail.com.au wrote:

> I want to execute these functions in
> "lock-step", so that the output looks like:
> 
>     1-1
>     2-2
>     1-2
>     2-2
>     1-3
>     2-3

Have you made a mistake in this output? Should it be this?

1-1
2-1
1-2
2-2
1-3
2-3

If yes, how about this?

#-------------------------
import itertools 

def seq(which, iterable):
    for i in iterable:
        yield "%d-%d" % (which, i)

times = [1,2,3]

seq1 = seq(1, times)
seq2 = seq(2, times)

for v1, v2 in itertools.izip(seq1, seq2):
    print v1
    print v2
#--------------------------

If you want to generalise the number of iterators, how about this?

#--------------------------
def lizip(iterables):
    iterables = map(iter, iterables)
    while True:
        result = [i.next() for i in iterables]
        yield tuple(result)

def seq(which, iterable):
    for i in iterable:
        yield "%d-%d" % (which, i)

y = [1,2,3] ; max_x = 5

iters = [seq(x, y) for x in range(1, max_x+1)]

for vertslice in lizip(iters):
    for v in vertslice:
        print v
#--------------------------

Note that these examples don't use "coroutines". Instead they use
python generators, which are classified as "semi-coroutines".

-- 
alan kennedy
-----------------------------------------------------
check http headers here: http://xhaus.com/headers
email alan:              http://xhaus.com/mailto/alan



From Andreas.Ames at tenovis.com  Tue Jul 22 13:16:37 2003
From: Andreas.Ames at tenovis.com (Ames Andreas (MPA/DF))
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 19:16:37 +0200
Subject: How is the execution order of 'x = z'? (also: Python FAQ 4.88)
Message-ID: <788E231C269961418F38D3E360D1652526C9CC@tndefr-ws00021.tenovis.corp.lan>

Hello,

during execution of an assignment statement like

x = y
.
.
.
x = z # <--

is y's reference count decremented (and therefore its __del__ possibly
called) *before* x is bound to z (or is z bound to x, I don't know the
correct wording) or *afterwards*?

I'm asking because I want to use threading.RLock but I'm a little
scared about the use of the '__owner' instance variable without
locking throughout the whole implementation.  Python FAQ 4.88 seems to
suggest y is deleted before x is rebound, in which case I'd rather not
use RLock (because several of Thread's ctor arguments can very well be
objects with explicit __del__ methods and the Threads which should use
my RLock are definitely not under my control).

Please note that I'm using Python 2.1;  I haven't looked at the
implementation in more recent versions.


Just curious, TIA

andreas




From hwlgw at hotmail.com  Fri Jul 11 09:33:22 2003
From: hwlgw at hotmail.com (Will Stuyvesant)
Date: 11 Jul 2003 06:33:22 -0700
Subject: XML, xmlproc, MathML and validation
Message-ID: <cb035744.0307110533.61e5e125@posting.google.com>

I am trying to validate a document with mixed XHTML and MathML.

The doctype declaration is:
<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC
        "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.1 plus MathML 2.0//EN"
        "http://www.w3.org/TR/MathML2/dtd/xhtml-math11-f.dtd"> 

And the w3c validator at http://validator.w3.org/ says my XML file is
valid.
So far so good.

But now I want to use xmlproc to both validate it and change something
in it.  I use "from xml.parsers.xmlproc import xmlval".
This works good when the DTD is local but does not work in this case,
where the DTD is remote.  I can't have the MathML DTD local (it is now
available as one file cause they made some stupid decision when
designing it).

The error message:

ERROR: xml:space must have exactly the values 'default' and 'preserve'
at http:/
/www.w3.org/TR/MathML2/dtd/xhtml-math11-f.dtd:2025:1

=============================================================

My original problem:

I am trying to write a valid2browser.py that replaces all occurences
of

<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC
        "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.1 plus MathML 2.0//EN"
        "http://www.w3.org/TR/MathML2/dtd/xhtml-math11-f.dtd"> 

by

<?xml-stylesheet type="text/xsl" href="mathml.xsl"?>

so my browser can display it.  And before that validate it if
possible.
And then I want a browser2valid.py program.

Fun projects!



From jude-venn at blueyonder.co.uk  Fri Jul  4 17:44:25 2003
From: jude-venn at blueyonder.co.uk (Jude Venn)
Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 21:44:25 +0000
Subject: Delete item from wxListCtrl
References: <3f05842f$0$49105$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <20030704214425.5bb4e81a.jude-venn@blueyonder.co.uk>

haven't checked, but i think there's a GetIndex() method on the event object that returns the index of the selection.

On Fri, 4 Jul 2003 15:39:20 +0200
"Joost van Rooij" <j.vanrooij_at_e-quest.nl> wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> I am having problems deleting one item from a list in a wxListCtrl widget.
> My thought was to select it as presented below:
> 
> def onSelect(self, event):
>     self.item = event.GetItem()
>     self.list.DeleteItem(self.item)
> 
> This won't work, it appaers GetItem() is returning an object while
> DeleteItem() requires a long as its input. How do I pass the item to the
> DeleteItem function?
> 
> Regards,
> Joost
> 
> 



From http  Fri Jul  4 13:58:08 2003
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 04 Jul 2003 10:58:08 -0700
Subject: [Dream] A meta-wrapper module to interface any C dynamic library
References: <pan.2003.07.04.10.59.31.477048@virgilio.it>
Message-ID: <7xadbuuqbz.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

"Francesco Bochicchio" <bockman at virgilio.it> writes:
> I've given some thought to this idea, but I was blocked by the theoric (?)
> impossibility to correctly call a C function without knowing its prototype
> at compile time.

Hmm, if the library is compiled with debugging symbols, type info is
available....



From spam at yourself.pl  Wed Jul 30 09:12:31 2003
From: spam at yourself.pl (Matthias)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 15:12:31 +0200
Subject: python in parallel for pattern discovery in genome data
References: <mailman.1059564044.30278.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bg8gbd$d0t$1@trumpet.uni-mannheim.de>

BalyanM wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> I am new to python.I am using it on redhat linux 9.
> I am interested to run python on a sun machine(SunE420R,os=solaris)
> with 4 cpu's for a pattern discovery/search program on biological
> sequence(genomic sequence).I want to write the python code so that it
> utilizes all the 4 cpu's.Moreover do i need some other libraries.
> Kindly advice.

Don't write the speed-critical parts in python. 



From mwh at python.net  Wed Jul 16 12:02:32 2003
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 16:02:32 GMT
Subject: How does python work
References: <pan.2003.07.10.11.05.07.519231@sdf-eu.org> <nkWdnee9-rWNH5CiRTvUqw@speakeasy.net>
Message-ID: <7h3u19mlb4h.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

"A.M. Kuchling" <amk at amk.ca> writes:

> On Thu, 10 Jul 2003 13:05:07 +0200, 
> 	Geiregat Jonas <eniac at sdf-eu.org> wrote:
> > I'm asking myself how Python code get's executed ...
> > What happens first etc ...
> > First read the file and then ..
> 
> The code is parsed and compiled into bytecode that can then be executed.
> Consult a textbook on parsing or programming language implementation for
> more details about how parsing is done.  
> 
> I thought someone (MWH?) wrote an explanation of Python's internals once,
> but can't find anything at the moment.  

I've threatened to do it, but not actually done it.

If you can read C, these things aren't that hard to figure out (though
tags or cscope certainly help...).

Cheers,
M.

-- 
  You owe the Oracle a star-spangled dunce cap.
                 -- Internet Oracularity Internet Oracularity #1299-08



From intentionally at blank.co.uk  Mon Jul 14 21:40:27 2003
From: intentionally at blank.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 02:40:27 +0100
Subject: anything like C++ references?
References: <b8c3hvsesjoumiboobml3nsnajtha99mp1@4ax.com> <mailman.1058129901.28248.python-list@python.org> <plk3hv0s1m2egf4s34jo6vjedk0q8r2mu9@4ax.com> <m365m6ul5c.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <mailman.1058145500.19181.python-list@python.org> <e464hvcq48q3240ecfcs6jqhqf616q7v1a@4ax.com> <3F1256C0.4BDC816F@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <vdl6hvckre5pms4n8bcn0nf1ma09ikse0f@4ax.com>

On Mon, 14 Jul 2003 00:07:44 -0700, Erik Max Francis <max at alcyone.com>
wrote:

>Stephen Horne wrote:
>
>> Imagine, for instance, changing all assignments and other 'copying' to
>> use a copy-on-write system. Then add a pointer type and a 'newcopyof'
>> operator. And nick the C-style prefix '*' for dereferencing and add
>> '&' as a 'make a pointer to this object' operator (absolutely NOT a
>> physical memory address).
>
>The problem is that this misses the point that Python is not C++.  You
>shouldn't try grafting syntaxes and approaches that make Python look
>more like C++, you should be learning to use Python on its own merits.

Not true.

If you eliminate all violations of the idea of variables bound to
values (basically the whole point of my thread), then mutable
containers cannot achieve the same thing.

If a copy-on-write scheme is added to Python, you'd get the following
results from using mutable containers...

>>> a = [1, 2, 3]
>>> b = a
>>> b[2] = 4
>>> a
[1, 2, 3]
>>> b
[1, 2, 4]

That is, mutability of the list object could be used to conveniently
and efficiently rebind the variable b (in this case to the value [1,
2, 4]) but that doesn't implicitly rebind the variable a which has
nothing to do with this assignment. In the implementation, Python
would create a copy of the object bound to [1, 2, 3] just in time to
apply the change that object, without affecting the object that a is
bound to.

Efficient, and it implements the variable-bound-to-value concept.

Having done this, there would be a need for a way of indirectly
referencing objects. You wouldn't be able to abuse containers for this
goal. Pointers are the logical way to achieve the goal of indirect
referencing - they don't need to be associated with a type of
container which may have nothing to do with the problem, and they can
be used to reference *any* type of object.

>Or, to put it another way, if you want to program in C++, why not use
>C++?

I don't want to program in C++ (though sadly I have to).

The concept of a pointer as an indirect way of referencing an object,
however, is useful. It isn't just a C++ concept. It is a widely used
concept from many languages which has gone out of fashion, mainly
because of the low level detail of how pointers are implemented in
languages such as C++ (ie simple store addresses).

I don't want the C++ bug-prone implementation of pointers. I want
something which allows indirect referencing of objects in a logical
and safe, high level way - and something which doesn't require the
language to break the principle of variables bound to values.

The fact that pointers are generally useful can be seen in the regular
abuse of single item lists to fake the functionality of pointers.

If people are routinely faking the abstraction, maybe that is because
it is a useful abstraction to have. Maybe it would be better to
support it explicitly instead of forcing people to use tricks and
hacks.




From mcfletch at rogers.com  Tue Jul 22 00:30:12 2003
From: mcfletch at rogers.com (Mike C. Fletcher)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 00:30:12 -0400
Subject: properties + types, implementing meta-class desciptors elegantly?
In-Reply-To: <2259b0e2.0307210533.6fd22744@posting.google.com>
References: <mailman.1058532630.7342.python-list@python.org> <bfa97g$s5j$0@216.39.172.122> <2259b0e2.0307190640.56266017@posting.google.com> <mailman.1058629890.30475.python-list@python.org> <2259b0e2.0307200652.131ed45e@posting.google.com> <mailman.1058717611.28555.python-list@python.org> <2259b0e2.0307210533.6fd22744@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3F1CBDD4.60305@rogers.com>

Michele Simionato wrote:

>"Mike C. Fletcher" <mcfletch at rogers.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.1058717611.28555.python-list at python.org>...
>  
>
...

>>You are aware that you have just created a class-attribute, rather than 
>>an instance attribute?  The property/descriptor object exists within the 
>>class 'o' namespace, not the instance namespace.  Try creating two 
>>instances of your o class and setting v on both of them.  There is one 
>>'p' instance "self" to which you are assigning/retrieving an attribute 
>>for all instances of o.  Creating class variables is certainly a valid 
>>use for descriptors, but I'm not sure if that's really what you were 
>>trying to do.
>>    
>>
>
>I have just copied your code, I thought you wanted a class attribute.
>
I should have been more precise.  Your value is stored in the 
descriptor, so it is not a per-class attribute, it is an attribute 
stored in one place for *all* instances of all sub-classes of the 
defined class, it is not a property of the class, but an effectively 
static variable in the class definition.  That is, each instance 
modifies the one copy of the value, regardless of the instance' class.  
I'm looking for a meta-property, a property of a class, rather than a 
property of a class-instance.  Changing an instance's value for that 
name shouldn't affect this value.  Changing the meta-property value 
should only occur when you do setattr( cls, key, value ), and should 
store the value in the *particular* concrete class having the value set, 
not on some ancestor of that class, just as if you were to do setattr( 
cls, key, value) without any meta-descriptor being present.

>It is is trivial to do the same for instance attributes:
>
>class o(object):
>    class p( object ): # descriptor class
>        def __set__( self, client, value, *args, **named ):
>            print '__set__', self, client, value, args, named
>            self.value=value
>        def __get__(self,obj,cls):
>            return self.value
>
>    def __init__(self):
>        self.v = self.p()
>
>I understand that you aware of this, but you don't like it. Still I
>do not understand why do you feel it to be ugly and/or inelegant. It
>seems to me quite idiomatic.
>  
>
It's just not what I'm trying to do (create active properties on 
meta-classes).  It's a perfectly fine way to create class-static 
variables shared among a hierarchy of instance objects.

>Yes, I understand you want to be able to set class dictionaries just
>as object dictionaries, bypassing descriptors. Still, I am not sure
>if this would be a good idea.
>
Well, just to clean up the descriptor API it's probably worth it IMO, 
but I only seem to have Michael to back me up on that so far :) .  
There's a missing level of functionality/hooks that haven't been exposed 
and should be exposed to allow more general & orthogonal operation of 
descriptor code. 

Basically, it should be possible to mimic the built-in behaviour of 
setattr/getattr w/out resorting to horrific hacks just to get that 
behaviour.  In other words, it should be possible to interpose an 
operation in the descriptor-processing stream in much the same way that 
super() allows for co-operative mix-in classes to inter-operate by 
saying 'okay, do what would have been done if this "filter" method 
didn't exist'.

>Elegance is in the eye of the beholder ;)
>
Indeed.

>Good luck with your project,
>
Thanks.  Enjoy,
Mike






From revthoren at k7.net  Mon Jul 28 13:09:00 2003
From: revthoren at k7.net (bthoren)
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 13:09:00 -0400
Subject: where is the awk to python translator program
In-Reply-To: <87smounf2z.fsf@jidanni.org>
References: <87smounf2z.fsf@jidanni.org>
Message-ID: <bg3l3d$1qbj$2@news3.infoave.net>

Why translate?  PyAWK may do what you need:

http://pyawk.sourceforge.net/

I don't have any direct experiences with it, but it does look 
interesting.


Dan Jacobson wrote:

> An old dog can't learn new tricks, so where's the a2py awk to python
> translator?  Perl has a2p.  E.g. today I wonder how to do '{print
> $1}', well with a2p I know how to do it in perl, but with python I am
> supposed to hunker down with the manuals.




From drlinux at columbus.rr.com  Wed Jul  9 11:17:18 2003
From: drlinux at columbus.rr.com (Dave Reed)
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 11:17:18 -0400
Subject: Application Development in Python
In-Reply-To: <m2znjn4vh7.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>
References: <3089454.1057738936@dbforums.com> <200307091017.49419.drlinux@columbus.rr.com> <m2znjn4vh7.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>
Message-ID: <200307091117.18631.drlinux@columbus.rr.com>

On Wednesday 09 July 2003 10:37, John Hunter wrote:
> >>>>> "Dave" == Dave Reed <drlinux at columbus.rr.com> writes:
> 
>     Dave> Also note that using the database for manipulating the data
>     Dave> makes the speed very acceptable. I'm almost certain that
>     Dave> manipulating the data in Python would be way too slow to
>     Dave> make it usable (e.g., generating a balance sheet that looks
>     Dave> through all the transactions and groups them by account in
>     Dave> Python would be much slower than using sql commands to do
>     Dave> that).
> 
> I'm not arguing that the dbase isn't the way to go, but if you wanted
> to do the manipulations in python, the Numeric package certainly
> provides the speed you need to manipulate large quantities of data
> rapidly.  I sometimes use a C extension to put data from an SQL
> database directly into Numeric arrays and then manipulate the data in
> python.
> 
> John Hunter

Yes, Numeric is great for numeric data. The data I have is a mix of
numeric and text data (for example, patient name, frame description,
etc.). The other benefit of using the database is it provides
automatic persistence (permanent storage) and atomic transaction
processing. And of course sql statements allow you to easily get the
data you want using joins, group by, and order by.

Dave






From gh at ghaering.de  Thu Jul 17 09:25:39 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-2?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 15:25:39 +0200
Subject: python.dll
In-Reply-To: <3f169c26$1@newspilot.put.poznan.pl>
References: <3f169c26$1@newspilot.put.poznan.pl>
Message-ID: <3F16A3D3.3060001@ghaering.de>

Jacek Potrymaj?o wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I have a question about python installing. I try to install program which
> require Python 2.2. 

Which software is this? If it requires Python, why isn't Python part of 
the setup?

> I installed this version of python software, but when I
> try to install software which use Python I have an error - incorrect version
> of python.dll is installed. [...]

Is that the exact error message you get? If not, please tell us the 
exact error message.

You wonder why I don't believe that this is the exact error message? 
There is no such thing as a python.dll on Windows. The Python DLLs 
always carry the major and minor version numbers, like python21.dll or 
python22.dll.

-- Gerhard




From harry.g.george at boeing.com  Thu Jul 10 13:49:16 2003
From: harry.g.george at boeing.com (Harry George)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 17:49:16 GMT
Subject: object instance data to docbook, xml, pdf, etc?
Message-ID: <xqxvfua6zmr.fsf@cola2.ca.boeing.com>

We traverse a database to find complex data objects, and place them
temporarily in python objects.  From there we want to generate xml,
html, pdf.  The results are generally in tabular format, with
appropriate headers/footers, narrative.

The obvious path is to go to xml-based docbook and from there to
desired reports.  Are there any tools which ease to generation of the
initial docbook files?   Or another path altogether?

Notice that this is NOT the same as traversing the python code to
generate module documentation, a la PyDoc.  We are outputting the
instance data, sort of like Gnosis xml_objectify, but to docbook DTD.

-- 
harry.g.george at boeing.com
6-6M31 Knowledge Management
Phone: (425) 294-8757



From sebastien.hugues at swissinfo.org  Fri Jul 11 11:03:21 2003
From: sebastien.hugues at swissinfo.org (sebastien.hugues)
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 17:03:21 +0200
Subject: Windows XP - Environment variable - Unicode
Message-ID: <3f0ed1ba@epflnews.epfl.ch>

Alan Kennedy wrote:

 > Of course, this may not work if the APPDATA environment variable is
 > set outside a command window. If, for example, it was set through the
 > control panel, then it should be in the system default encoding. But
 > we'll cross that bridge when we come to it.
 >
 >
 >
Thanks for you fast answer. Actually the issue is that this variable is
set by the system itself. It is not accessible from the control panel. 
In the other hand, i don't use any terminal.

So the question is how to get the default encoding of the system ?
I was looking for a while in win32api documentation, msdn and
Google but i didn't get nothing.

Regards
Sebastien




From anton at vredegoor.doge.nl  Thu Jul 17 05:57:05 2003
From: anton at vredegoor.doge.nl (Anton Vredegoor)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 11:57:05 +0200
Subject: OT: Genetic Algorithm Recipe Bug Fix
References: <JwYMa.5801$eF3.719843@news20.bellglobal.com> <beh8ad$dm0$1@news.hccnet.nl> <mailman.1057764616.4199.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bf5s6m$occ$1@news.hccnet.nl>

John Hunter <jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu> wrote:

>    Anton> http://home.hccnet.nl/a.vredegoor/twomax
>
>Hmm, now if I can only figure out what it all means :-)

Me too. A friend of mine showed me that it's really a bipartite graph
optimization problem and that it's in NP because it's harder than the
maximum clique problem. Go figure :-)

Anyway it seems to be possible to solve a maximum clique problem like
this:

- start with a graph containing your clique problem
- copy the graph and color the original nodes white and the nodes of
the copy black
- connect the two graphs by drawing lines between black and white
nodes that originate from the same node, and between black and white
nodes where the original graph had a line between the original nodes.
- make a matrix where the rows represent black nodes and the columns
represent white nodes and where a "1" is in the matrix if there's a
line between two nodes

You now should have a matrix with ones on the diagonal and which is
symmetric along the diagonal.

Solve the matrix using the code above (I did some back porting to
Python22)

Look at the columns that are kept, it should be the nodes of a maximum
clique.

Is anybody still with me? I'd like to know if anyone can reproduce
this result or understand my explanation (I'm just repeating what I
saw on the blackboard)

Anton






From rastm2 at aol.commorespam  Sun Jul 27 10:27:42 2003
From: rastm2 at aol.commorespam (Raymond Arthur St. Marie II of III )
Date: 27 Jul 2003 14:27:42 GMT
Subject: Help with Boa on Win98 with unicode installed
Message-ID: <20030727102742.18087.00000494@mb-m15.aol.com>

Hey Group, a question please.

Has anyone ever struggeled with that install of Boa in Win98.
I've followed the Docs. Tryed the "-E" switch while in DosPrompt. Made sure the
wxPython version matched Python version...

What am I missing folks?

Recomendations on just waiting for Python2.3 and the next higher wxPython?

TIA
Ray



From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Thu Jul 10 19:48:57 2003
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 10 Jul 2003 19:48:57 -0400
Subject: Embedding Python, threading and scalability
References: <ec23a1ae.0307081354.5fc06cb@posting.google.com> <bekg96$mi$1@panix2.panix.com> <mailman.1057877718.17081.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <beku19$r61$1@panix2.panix.com>

In article <mailman.1057877718.17081.python-list at python.org>,
Jeff Epler  <jepler at unpythonic.net> wrote:
>On Thu, Jul 10, 2003 at 03:54:14PM -0400, Aahz wrote:
>>
>> Other people have mentioned Perl and Tcl in this thread.  I wonder how
>> they deal with the problem of loading DLLs with static data.
>
>As far as I know, tcl enforces a one interpreter to one thread
>requirement.  An extension should have only thread-local data, using a
>Tcl-supplied API.

What happens when Tcl wants to interact with some 3rd-party DLL that is
*not* thread-safe?
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"Not everything in life has a clue in front of it...."  --JMS



From Sibylle.Koczian at Bibliothek.Uni-Augsburg.de  Thu Jul 10 08:51:13 2003
From: Sibylle.Koczian at Bibliothek.Uni-Augsburg.de (Koczian)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 14:51:13 +0200
Subject: mx.DateTime.Parser.DateFromString('crap')
Message-ID: <bejgg6$9nq$1@rzmux02.rz.uni-augsburg.de>

This doesn't raise an exception but returns the current date. I know the 
comment in the notes for the Parser submodule: "The Parser submodule ... 
will try very hard to come up with a reasonable output given a valid 
input." But this is no valid input, so I'd prefer an exception or at 
least not a valid DateTime object.

I've got to parse a file where some lines contain months in the form 
"Jul 2003", lots of lines contain no date at all (DateFromString returns 
the current date again), and the first line with something that's 
neither empty nor a valid month should end the processing.

Working on Windows I haven't got strptime.

No better way than checking explicitly for the content of the last line?

Thanks for any help,
Koczian

-- 
Dr. Sibylle Koczian
Universitaetsbibliothek, Abt. Naturwiss.
D-86135 Augsburg

Tel.: (0821) 598-2400, Fax : (0821) 598-2410
e-mail : Sibylle.Koczian at Bibliothek.Uni-Augsburg.DE




From ta-meyer at ihug.co.nz  Sat Jul 19 00:29:57 2003
From: ta-meyer at ihug.co.nz (Tony Meyer)
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 16:29:57 +1200
Subject: IMAP examples
In-Reply-To: <1ED4ECF91CDED24C8D012BCF2B034F13026F86B5@its-xchg4.massey.ac.nz>
Message-ID: <1ED4ECF91CDED24C8D012BCF2B034F130212AB59@its-xchg4.massey.ac.nz>

> Well, to be fair, the first question, "Why data[0]" has more 
> to do with imaplib than IMAP4rev1.  I doubt it has an 
> interesting answer, though - might as well just say "Because".

Well, I suppose so, if the why is 'why index 0' and not 'why data'.

I should probably point out that I was wrong when I said that ALL was a
macro, as well.  I wasn't paying enough attention and assumed that the ALL
was being passed to FETCH, where it is a macro, rather than to SEARCH, where
it isn't.  The point is still valid, though :)

=Tony Meyer





From rzantow at ntelos.net  Thu Jul  3 20:13:01 2003
From: rzantow at ntelos.net (rzed)
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 20:13:01 -0400
Subject: Python Code Snippets
References: <be1hs0$111s$1@biggoron.nerim.net> <3f044c20$0$8303$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net> <3F04903A.8080009@dadsetan.com>
Message-ID: <Kn3Na.5149$_83.3853@fe01.atl2.webusenet.com>

Behrang Dadsetan wrote:
> Guyon Mor?e wrote:
>> You're gonna love this :)
>>
>> http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python
>>
>>
>> "Aur?lien G?ron" <ageron at HOHOHOHOvideotron.ca> wrote in message
>> news:be1hs0$111s$1 at biggoron.nerim.net...
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> Does anyone know where I can find a lot of Python code snippets?
>>>
>
> Or you might want to just look around here. In this
> newsgroup/mailing-list one gets to see really lots of nice code.
>
> One that I would nominate as the best test for measuring a hard-core
> python programmer would be to explain the following code without the
> context :)
>
> Karl Scalet wrote:
>  > there are very likely easier ways, but at least
>  >
>  > s = 'C6 H12 O6'
>  > print [' '.join(xx) for xx in apply(
>  >     zip,[(x[0],x[1:]) for x in s.split()])]
>  >
>  > gives some results,
>  >
>  > Karl
>
> Once I understood the above, I beleive I will write python in my
> Resume...
>
> What was this about "One simple obvious way doing it"? ;)

Obviously, this is just what people mean by "syntactic sugar."

--
rzed








From max at alcyone.com  Wed Jul  2 01:56:08 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 22:56:08 -0700
Subject: __del__ not working with cyclic reference? (and memory-leaked?)
References: <ba1e306f.0307011837.269e3d2a@posting.google.com> <ba1e306f.0307012146.6b8224e3@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3F0273F8.D3517ACE@alcyone.com>

Jane Austine wrote:

> I read the gc module reference thoroughly and
> thanks to your short comment, I could understand it.
> (I should not use __del__ for singleton patterns, but
> any other alternatives?)

I'm not sure why you'd want to use __del__ for a singleton pattern in
the first place, since singleton patterns are supposed to cushion the
creation and destruction of the singleton object away from the interface
user.  What are you trying to do with singleton patterns as it relates
to __del__?

> But does the fact that __del__ is not called for some
> objects mean they are not freed from memory and therefore
> memory-leaked?

No, most operating systems guarantee that when a process exits any
memory it allocated through normal means will be freed whether or not
the application explicitly does it.  So just as with C, C++, or Java,
Python ensures that when the program exits you won't have leaked memory
away from your operating system.

However, Python doesn't make any guarantees about how timely __del__
will be called, or indeed even if it will be (in the case of circular
references).  If you're finding yourself needing to rely on using
__del__ to get rid of important objects (such as those that are attached
to significant resources), a far better solution would be to use try:
... finally: clauses surrounding the usage of such objects:

	resource = Resource()
	try:
	    ... use resource ...
	finally:
	    resource.close()

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ Men and women, women and men.  It will never work.
\__/  Erica Jong



From usenet03q2 at hczim.de  Sat Jul 19 15:33:03 2003
From: usenet03q2 at hczim.de (Heike C. Zimmerer)
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 21:33:03 +0200
Subject: Executing a program
References: <FTeSa.7289$os2.110498@news2.e.nsc.no>
Message-ID: <bfc6f9$d1bdm$1@ID-183974.news.uni-berlin.de>

Eirik <hannibalkannibal at yahoo.no> writes:
>     File "./PPP", line 9, in run_app
>       os.execvp("home/eirik/ppp-skript", argument)
>     File "/usr/lib/python2.2/os.py", line 298, in execvp
>       _execvpe(file, args)
>     File "/usr/lib/python2.2/os.py", line 324, in _execvpe
>       apply(func, (file,) + argrest)
>   OSError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory

The error message seems clear to me.  You're sure you did not mean
"/home.." instead of "home.." (note the slash)?

Greetings,

 Heike



From ageron at HOHOHOHOvideotron.ca  Wed Jul  2 14:49:38 2003
From: ageron at HOHOHOHOvideotron.ca (Aurélien Géron)
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 20:49:38 +0200
Subject: My Big Dict.
References: <mailman.1057162084.18179.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bdv9g4$29lt$1@biggoron.nerim.net>

> [...snippage...]
>
> d={}
> for l in file("test.txt"):
>     try: i=l.index('!')
>     except ValueError: continue
>     d[l[:i]]=l[i+1:]
>
> [...snippage...]

Just a little note : I generally try to avoid lowercase L and uppercase i as
variable names, because in many fonts, there's barely any difference
(sometimes none at all) between l and 1 and I  (resp. lowercase L, number 1
and capital i).

For example : would you be able to find out what the result of the following
code is just by looking at it?  If you think you can, run it through python
and see if you were right!

l=1l
I=1+l
print l+l*I

Cya,
Aur?lien





From thanks200 at hotmail.com  Sun Jul 13 23:55:42 2003
From: thanks200 at hotmail.com (Tom Hanks)
Date: 13 Jul 2003 20:55:42 -0700
Subject: py2exe
References: <mailman.1058129539.22483.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <6152d0a0.0307131955.6eee2ad6@posting.google.com>

cybersamurai at mac.com wrote in message news:<mailman.1058129539.22483.python-list at python.org>...
> I am develop a application with wxpython, pycrypto, and Python 2.2, I 
> need know if py2exe get all modules needed for my application work 
> without install any application stead one exec file of my application 
> and without I select manually this modules?

I don't know about pycrypto, but I have used py2exe on a Python 2.2 &
wxPython program.  Pleasantly straight-forward with few surprises.

Regards,

Tom Hanks.



From sybrenUSE at YOURthirdtower.imagination.com  Wed Jul 30 02:41:19 2003
From: sybrenUSE at YOURthirdtower.imagination.com (Sybren Stuvel)
Date: 30 Jul 2003 06:41:19 GMT
Subject: while (assignment):
References: <slrnbicopb.6gh.sybrenUSE@sybren.thirdtower.com> <13a533e8.0307291300.be1423a@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <slrnbieq0n.86l.sybrenUSE@sybren.thirdtower.com>

Peter Abel enlightened us with:
> The following should work:
> 
> info = mydbcursor.fetchone()
> while info:
>   print "Information: "+str(info)
>   info = mydbcursor.fetchone()

I don't really like the double info assignment, but I've thought it
over a bit, and I like this better than the

while True
	info = mydbcursor.fetchone()
	if not info:
		break

construction. In the upper solution the "while info" makes the loop
condition very clear. The lower solution is less clear in that, but
doesn't have the double assignment.

Sybren
-- 
The problem with the world is stupidity. Not saying there should be a
capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the
safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself? 



From pablo at bogus.domain.org  Sat Jul 19 16:46:34 2003
From: pablo at bogus.domain.org (Pablo)
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 22:46:34 +0200
Subject: classes
Message-ID: <pan.2003.07.19.20.46.33.864915@bogus.domain.org>

Hello everyone

I have a problem with classes and hope someone can help me.
I'm used to Java and want to make a singleton class which would allow to
create only one instance of the class.
In Java it looks as follows:
public class DBConnection{
  private static DBConnection instance = null;
  private Conn conn = null;  // it is supposed to be object returned be
pg.connect() method of the PyGreSQL module

  /* a constructor must be private to forbid instantiation of the class */
  private DBConnection(){
    conn = new Conn();
  }

  public static DBConnection getInstance(){
    if(instance == null)
      instance = new DBConnection();
    return instance;
  }
};

How can I do the same in Python?
My main problems are:
1) how to declare a static field (class field not object field)
2) how to declare a static method
3) how to declare a private constructor (is it possible?)

Can someone help me or point me to some documentation with strong emphasis
on classes? It would be perfect if that documentation had some comparisons
with classes in Java or C++.

Best regards
Pablo



From peter at engcorp.com  Sun Jul 20 15:18:19 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 15:18:19 -0400
Subject: List of declared variables in interactive Python session?
References: <bfc9t5$ued$1@news3.tilbu1.nb.home.nl> <20030720143606.18124.00000262@mb-m15.aol.com>
Message-ID: <3F1AEAFB.3C62F613@engcorp.com>

"Raymond Arthur St. Marie II of III" wrote:
> 
> >>> vars( )
> 
> {'d': 'pywin', '__builtins__': <module '__builtin__' (built-in)>, '__name__':
> '__main__', 'pywin': <module 'pywin' from
> 'C:\PYTHON22\lib\site-packages\Pythonwin\pywin\__init__.pyc'>, '__doc__': None}
> 
> >>> for v in vars(): print v
> ...
> 
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<interactive input>", line 1, in ?
> RuntimeError: dictionary changed size during iteration

for v in vars().copy(): print v

works fine...

-Peter



From ianb at colorstudy.com  Tue Jul  1 19:32:08 2003
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: 01 Jul 2003 18:32:08 -0500
Subject: Circular Inheritance
In-Reply-To: <234cc7238020.238020234cc7@usc.edu>
References: <234cc7238020.238020234cc7@usc.edu>
Message-ID: <1057102328.726.124.camel@lothlorien>

On Tue, 2003-07-01 at 17:36, jinal jhaveri wrote:
> B requires C
> C requires A
> A requires B
> 
> and when I try to do this using 
> 
> from ...import....
> it tells me that you cannot import this. 

Instead of using from...import..., just use import.  To explain:

A.py:
from B import B
class A:
    ... uses B

B.py:
from A import A
class B:
    ... uses A

Now, let's say you import A.  When you do that, the first line is
executed ("from B import B").  So B is imported, and its first line is
executed ("from A import A").  But the class A does not yet exist --
we're still just on the first line of that module.  The A module *does*
exist, and you can import it, it just hasn't been completely set up. 
This is why it will usually work to use a plain import, and just refer
to A.A in B (and B.B in A).

  Ian






From vze4rx4y at verizon.net  Thu Jul 24 22:39:10 2003
From: vze4rx4y at verizon.net (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 02:39:10 GMT
Subject: ndiff
References: <ZfFTa.130048$N7.18958@sccrnsc03>
Message-ID: <iL0Ua.32969$7O.25294@nwrdny01.gnilink.net>

> 1.  both ndiff and Differ.compare return all the lines including lines that
> are the same in both files, not just the diffs.  is the convention to take
> the output and then filter out lines that contain a space as the first
> character to just get the diffs?  it seems strange to me that the output is
> not just the deltas and a lot of wasted filtering (especially if the file is
> very large) to get the diff you wanted in the first place.  isn't there a
> better way?

The new difflib.py in Py2.3 has two new functions, context_diff()
and unified_diff().  The new functions and an exposed underlying
method strip-away the commonalities leaving only the changes
and context, if desired.


Raymond Hettinger





From mis6 at pitt.edu  Fri Jul  4 09:11:40 2003
From: mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato)
Date: 4 Jul 2003 06:11:40 -0700
Subject: cooperation of buitlin methods usingtsuper
References: <bduh36$rgn$1@news.sns-felb.debis.de> <2259b0e2.0307020855.478300c2@posting.google.com> <be0lic$rgn$2@news.sns-felb.debis.de> <2259b0e2.0307030652.697001dd@posting.google.com> <be23nd$aqp$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <2259b0e2.0307040511.1eb91faa@posting.google.com>

bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) wrote in message news:<be23nd$aqp$0 at 216.39.172.122>...
> ISTM (and I don't know super much) that in the above, if you factor out
>     x = super(C,c)
> and then compare
>     len(x)
> vs
>     x.__len__()
> 
> then the results above suggest that implementation is not
>     getattr(x,'__len__')()
> but effectively more like
>     getattr(x.__class__,'__len__')(x)
> 
> Note:
> 
>  >>> class B(object):
>  ...     def __len__(self): return 1111
>  ...
>  >>> class C(B): pass
>  ...
>  >>> c=C()
>  >>> super(C,c).__len__()
>  1111
>  >>> len(super(C,c))
>  Traceback (most recent call last):
>    File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
>  TypeError: len() of unsized object
> 
> Ok, now let's look at c vs x:
> 
>  >>> getattr(c,'__len__')()
>  1111
>  >>> getattr(c.__class__,'__len__')(c)
>  1111
> 
> vs
> 
>  >>> getattr(x,'__len__')()
>  1111
>  >>> getattr(x.__class__,'__len__')(x)
>  Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
>  AttributeError: type object 'super' has no attribute '__len__'
> 
> I guess generally continuing a failed method lookup in x.__class__.__dict__ or equivalent
> and trying to find it as an instance attribute might make this super problem
> work, but weren't instance methods intentionally bypassed for the new style?
> 
> That would mean solving the problem specifically in super somehow, but how? I guess by
> fiddling with lookup of methods of/via super instances? I guess it could be done in C.
> I'll have to look in typeobject.c more sometime. It looks already tricky ;-)
> 
> Regards,
> Bengt Richter

To add trickyness to trickyness, I show you a couple of examples where
the same problems appear. These examples (or examples similar to them)
where pointed out to me by Bjorn Pettersen. The real problem seems to be
in the lookup rule for len(x) which is not always equivalent to
x.__len__() when tricks with __getattr__ are performed:

First example: defining __len__ on the object does not work

class E(object):
    def __getattr__(self,name):
            if name=='__len__': return lambda:0

>>> e=E()
>>> e.__len__()
0
>>> len(e)
Traceback ...

Second example: defining __len__ on the class does not work:

class M(type):
    def __getattr__(self,name):
            if name=='__len__': return lambda self:0

class F: __metaclass__=M

>>> f=F()
>>> F.__len__(f) # okay
0
>>> len(f) # TypeError: len() of unsized object
f.__len__() # AttributeError: 'F' object has no attribute '__len__'

As you see, the problem is that len(x) is not calling x.__len__(),
nor x.__class__.__len__(x); I really would like to know how ``len`` 
(or ``str``, ``repr``, etc.) work: I think this is the core of
the problem, whereas ``super`` is probably a red herring.

                                  Michele



From stevenswan at sina.com  Wed Jul  2 21:41:05 2003
From: stevenswan at sina.com (stevenswan)
Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 09:41:05 +0800
Subject: anything like a "pointer" in python?
Message-ID: <20030703014105.16688.qmail@sina.com>

I want to open a file in python and read something and process the file in c++ moduel, but there is no "pointer" in python,
so how can I pass the arg(file buffer) between python and c++ modules?


______________________________________

===================================================================




From theller at python.net  Thu Jul 17 15:35:21 2003
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 21:35:21 +0200
Subject: xml.sax in py2exe
References: <mailman.1058468007.555.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <y8yxvtdy.fsf@python.net>

<jubafre at brturbo.com> writes:

> I want a binnary file to my aplicattion, but py2exe don't match the
> xmll.sax module.
>
> the py2exe shows this errors:
>
> warning: py2exe: ***************************************************************
> **********
> warning: py2exe: * The following modules were not found:
> warning: py2exe: *   xml.sax
> warning: py2exe: *   win32con
> warning: py2exe: *   pywintypes
> warning: py2exe: *   os.path
> warning: py2exe: *   hexdump
> warning: py2exe: *   win32com.client.gencache
> warning: py2exe: *   win32api
> warning: py2exe: ***************************************************************
> **********
>
> but in python if i import the module, its works very well!
>
> Python 2.2.2 (#37, Oct 14 2002, 17:02:34) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>>> import xml.sax
>>>> xml.sax
> <module 'xml.sax' from 'C:\PYTHON22\lib\site-packages\_xmlplus\sax\__init__.pyc'

Currently the released version of py2exe doesn't work with PyXML.

There is a workaround, although this should be considered as a hack,
and I'm not completely sure it will work:

Remove the lib\site-packages\xml directory, and rename
lib\site-packages\_xmlplus into lib\site-packages\xml.

Another workaround would be to remove PyXML and use the stock Python xml
support, if it's sufficient.

It may also be that the current CVS version will be able to do it,
but again I'm not sure.

Thomas



From CousinStanley at hotmail.com  Tue Jul 15 10:59:19 2003
From: CousinStanley at hotmail.com (Cousin Stanley)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 07:59:19 -0700
Subject: "Introduction to Tkinter" available in html format?
References: <Xns93B989B391AB0t45fs6vve@130.133.1.4>
Message-ID: <bf14ns$a3otj$1@ID-130333.news.uni-berlin.de>

| Does anybody know where can I get the html version
| for offline browsing?
|
| It's cumbersome to use the pdf. I've got dial-up
| and I can't connect all the time to see the reference.

Psymaster ...

    I built a local HTML version of Introduction to Tkinter
    by using a couple of Python scripts that downloaded
    everything from the on-line HTML version ...

    All links have been edited to point to local files ...

    If Fredrik Lundh says its OK I'll zip it up
    and post a link for download ...

-- 
Cousin Stanley
Human Being
Phoenix, Arizona





From aaron at reportlab.com  Wed Jul  2 13:59:08 2003
From: aaron at reportlab.com (Aaron Watters)
Date: 2 Jul 2003 10:59:08 -0700
Subject: does lack of type declarations make Python unsafe?
References: <3064b51d.0306151228.22c595e0@posting.google.com> <ad052e5c.0306151904.52cad325@posting.google.com> <1055736914.49032@yasure> <uwufmko7g.fsf@boost-consulting.com> <3064b51d.0306170436.2b31f9e@posting.google.com> <Xns939D905D1B2A3duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1> <usmq86vit.fsf@boost-consulting.com>
Message-ID: <9a6d7d9d.0307020959.634ceb4e@posting.google.com>

David Abrahams <dave at boost-consulting.com> wrote in message news:<usmq86vit.fsf at boost-consulting.com>...
> Duncan Booth <duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk> writes:
> 
> I'm not saying that Python isn't a wonderful language -- it is.  It's
> great to have the flexibility of fully dynamic typing available.  All
> the same, I'm not going to pretend that static typing doesn't have
> real advantages.  I seriously believe that it's better most of the
> time, because it helps catch mistakes earlier, makes even simple code
> easier to maintain, and makes complex code easier to write.  I would
> trade some convenience for these other strengths.  Although it's very
> popular around here to say that research has shown static typing
> doesn't help, I've never seen that research, and my personal
> experience contradicts the claim anyway.

I'm somewhere on the fence.  I've seen static typing catch errors,
but I've also seen static typing (in java, say) make the use of a
hash table into an exercise in code obfuscation.  I'd really like some
sort of compromise where you could harden types incrementally.  Also
static typing can make it more difficult for bad programmers to do
stupid things...

I'd like to see research either way.  I've heard of rumored research
in both directions.  Personally, I suspect the widely repeated statement
"90% of programming errors are typing errors" can be traced back to the
60's when engineers wrote programs on graph paper-like sheets and
handed them to TYPISTS who then TYPED THEM WRONG onto punch cards.

  -- Aaron Watters

"You mean life is not a fountain???"



From ianb at colorstudy.com  Sat Jul 12 01:27:49 2003
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: 12 Jul 2003 00:27:49 -0500
Subject: The "intellectual property" misnomer
In-Reply-To: <slrnbgv1c7.q1.bignose-hates-spam@rose.localdomain.fake>
References: <mailman.1057978117.8939.python-list@python.org>
	 <slrnbgv1c7.q1.bignose-hates-spam@rose.localdomain.fake>
Message-ID: <1057987669.28456.79.camel@lothlorien>

On Fri, 2003-07-11 at 22:30, Ben Finney wrote:
> > and you proved you're not [confused by the term]
> > [by listing some disparate fields of law that might be referred to by
> > the term]
> 
> This doesn't follow at all.  I requested that the "rights" being
> referred to should be stated, not handwaved with a term that presumes
> that copyright, patent, trademark, trade secret, or many other disparate
> legal areas can be lumped together.
> 
> If PSF holds rights that are covered by *all* those fields of law, I'd
> be very surprised; but if the "rights" are *not* covered by all those
> different legal areas, then the term is useless.

Functionally, though, I think the term intellectual property here
works.  PSF holds (to their knowledge) all intellectual property
associated with Python -- there may be no patents, but with the
statement they assert that either there are no patents or they hold
them.  We also know (implied from other sources) that PSF does not
restrict its intellectual property.  The intent of this statement is
that someone using Python need not worry about "intellectual property"
associated with Python, which includes at least patent, copyright, and
trade secrets.  I don't know how this applies to trademarks, since they
are different from the others, and obviously PSF does not hold every
trademark that contains Python and relates to computers.

> If the PSF holds software patents in Python, I imagine many would be
> outraged.  I don't believe it does.  If it's not the case, why imply it
> with an overbroad term?

I would not be outraged.  If they enforced those patents, then I might
be outraged.

  Ian






From martin at v.loewis.de  Fri Jul 18 11:13:13 2003
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-15?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 18 Jul 2003 17:13:13 +0200
Subject: A challenge to the ASCII proponents.
References: <mailman.1058278343.23104.python-list@python.org> <bf167a$pvt$1@panix2.panix.com> <ufzl7rdno.fsf@online.no> <3F142A58.80426AA4@hotmail.com> <2259b0e2.0307161620.4a9353f1@posting.google.com> <Xns93BB246FDDBCFJanC@213.118.75.80> <3F168011.3AEB3EFC@hotmail.com> <3F172442.2040907@v.loewis.de> <3F17C1D4.1A70703A@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <m3fzl3lvg6.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Alan Kennedy <alanmk at hotmail.com> writes:

> More worrying however is the failure of modern browsers to display the
> characters when accessed through Google Groups.

It's not the browsers that display it incorrectly; it is Google
rendering it incorrectly. Fortunately, they keep the original data at

http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=3F172442.2040907%40v.loewis.de&oe=UTF-8&output=gplain

Regards,
Martin




From intentionally at blank.co.uk  Tue Jul 15 17:04:29 2003
From: intentionally at blank.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 22:04:29 +0100
Subject: anything like C++ references?
References: <b8c3hvsesjoumiboobml3nsnajtha99mp1@4ax.com> <mailman.1058129901.28248.python-list@python.org> <plk3hv0s1m2egf4s34jo6vjedk0q8r2mu9@4ax.com> <hflQa.48826$wk6.12216@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net> <rp94hvc8fg6h91oe7ctqq9jn9ku3nlud1k@4ax.com> <f0f51c80.0307150945.3f19e48b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <qlq8hv8e7a5177o250c2fhvg9hv2lhfa15@4ax.com>

On 15 Jul 2003 10:45:10 -0700, owski at hotmail.com (Adam Ruth) wrote:

>I came to Python from Ada, and all I have to say is:  Pointer-like
>semantics are evil.  They're worse than goto's, they're deadly,
>damaging, and should be avoided at all costs.
>
>They're an unhappy necessity, akin to stop-lights.  You need them
>because roads intersect, but if roads don't intersect, don't use them!

Absolutely true. And the worst thing you can do when you really can't
avoid pointers is to obscure the issue even more by disguising them as
something else.

The biggest problems with pointers relate to things with pointer math,
pointers to deleted objects etc. These things need not exist in a
scripting language that provides pointers - pointers don't have to be
implemented using store addresses. That is just a concept from C, C++,
Pascal, Ada etc - not something I want to see imitated. If pointers
can be created that refer to given objects, and if pointers can be
dereferenced, that is actually enough to support indirect referencing.




From drs at ecp.cc  Wed Jul  2 03:50:57 2003
From: drs at ecp.cc (drs)
Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 07:50:57 GMT
Subject: dcom client from non-windows python
References: <ur85a8we8.fsf@scientia.com>
Message-ID: <B9wMa.9909$BM.3068463@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com>

"Paul Rudin" <paul_rudin at scientia.com> wrote in message
news:ur85a8we8.fsf at scientia.com...
>
>
> This is mostly idle speculation from a position of considerable
> ignorance :-)
>
> In theory it should be possible to do client side dcom from
> non-windows boxes. The existing python win32com stuff is only
> distributed for windows.  The python wrappers could be generated from
> a type library on a windows box; copied across to (e.g.) a linux box
> and used to do write client side dcom python programs to talk to a
> servers running on a windows box. I wonder how much of the current
> dcom client code depends on the presence of windows? Does this sound
> like a big job getting this kind of thing to work? Or should it be
> fairly easy to modify the existing com client stuff for this purpose?
> Maybe somebody has already done this (although I could find anything
> with a quick google)?

My guess is you would be more successful using pyro for the distributed
stuff. my other guess is that python com simply wraps windows stuff, and
that reimplementing windows on linux would take a while.

-d





From mwh at python.net  Tue Jul 15 11:55:37 2003
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 15:55:37 GMT
Subject: How to crash Python in 1 easy step (python 2.2.2)
References: <2e363c08.0307130944.4c470bc3@posting.google.com> <b1919f11.0307150217.73a5bf2d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <7h3isq3n63w.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

gavriep at yahoo.com (Gavrie Philipson) writes:

> pwmiller1 at adelphia.net (Paul Miller) wrote in message news:<2e363c08.0307130944.4c470bc3 at posting.google.com>...
> > I'm not sure if this is a python bug or a bug in an associated
> > library, and I'm not even sure how to correctly report it, but here is
> >   Anytime python is accepting keyboard input, whether it's with
> > raw_input, or sitting on the command line waiting for the user to type
> > code, you can crash python by holding ctrl+shift and then pressing
> > enter.
> > 
> > This is on a RedHat 9.0 system running on an Athlon 600.  Basically
> > everything about the system is standard except for what's been updated
> > by RedHat itself.  If anyone who has the time and ability to track
> > down this bug needs more information, please email me.
> 
> I'm seeing the same effect on RH9, using KDE's "konsole" terminal
> emulator.
> When pressing Ctrl-Shift-Enter, it actually sends the ^[OM characters
> (Escape, O, M).
> Manually sending the key sequence Esc-O-something also crashes Python.
> 
> Why this happens is still a good question...

This has almost surely got to be a readline problem.  Does it happen
in (e.g.) gdb?

Cheers,
mwh

PS: pressing ctrl-\ also crashes Python...
PPS: unless you've been mucking with stty -- 'stty quit i' makes for
     an abbreviated python programming experience :-)

-- 
  well, take it from an old hand: the only reason it would be easier
  to program in C is that you can't easily express complex problems
  in C, so you don't.                   -- Erik Naggum, comp.lang.lisp



From null-spam at tfh.ca  Mon Jul 14 11:18:53 2003
From: null-spam at tfh.ca (Sean)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 10:18:53 -0500
Subject: Expressing time.
Message-ID: <beuhku$68e$1@canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca>

I'm playing around times and dates.  I'd like to determine the age of
particular sets of data in a user friendly matter.

I've got everything ready but dealing with time in a user friendly manner.

What would be a good way to express (in python):
        time.localtime()+30 days
        time.localtime()+5 minutes
        time.localtime()+2 months
        time.localtime()-2 years

I know I could probably just calculate out each of those in seconds but that
seems unelegant and very unfriendly (not to mention prone to error).

Is there any python facilities to make this an easier chore (aka
time.localtime()+months(3))?
(I included months as it is a special case in that you can't just
arbitrarily calculate months in seconds without being relative to a
particular month).

--
Sean





From tdelaney at avaya.com  Mon Jul 21 20:41:09 2003
From: tdelaney at avaya.com (Delaney, Timothy C (Timothy))
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 10:41:09 +1000
Subject: [OT] On the TimBot
Message-ID: <338366A6D2E2CA4C9DAEAE652E12A1DE8D426C@au3010avexu1.global.avaya.com>

> From: Christos "TZOTZIOY" Georgiou [mailto:tzot at sil-tec.gr]
>
> 3. To "Tron" fans: yes, you could assign the name TimBit to 
> it, but it's
> a broken Bit; what's the use of a Bit that's always true?

Well, it compresses really well ...

Tim Delaney




From dmbkiwi at yahoo.com  Sun Jul 13 00:40:39 2003
From: dmbkiwi at yahoo.com (dmbkiwi)
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 16:40:39 +1200
Subject: Python - if/else statements
References: <pan.2003.07.11.19.34.16.330762@yahoo.com> <ben6uf$tcr$0@216.39.172.122> <pan.2003.07.11.23.16.08.781512@yahoo.com> <benpvl$9kj$0@216.39.172.122> <pan.2003.07.12.02.27.29.730366@yahoo.com> <beq4io$19r$0@216.39.172.122> <pan.2003.07.13.00.30.47.81216@yahoo.com> <beqlfp$21k$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <pan.2003.07.13.04.40.33.630099@yahoo.com>

On Sun, 13 Jul 2003 03:59:53 +0000, Bengt Richter wrote:

> On Sun, 13 Jul 2003 12:30:52 +1200, dmbkiwi <dmbkiwi at yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
>>On Sat, 12 Jul 2003 23:11:20 +0000, Bengt Richter wrote:
>>
>>> On Sat, 12 Jul 2003 14:27:33 +1200, dmbkiwi <dmbkiwi at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>>On Sat, 12 Jul 2003 01:58:13 +0000, Bengt Richter wrote:
>>>>
>>> [...]
>>> Is it a single .py file?
> BTW, since you uploaded it, is there an URL for it?

http://www.kdelook.org/content/show.php?content=6384

>>
>>Yes, although it imports a module called karamba (see my original post -
>>this is a theme run through a theme engine called superkaramba).
>>
> Unfortunately that makes me imagine an engine in a theme park, maybe in
> Argentina ;-P IOW I know nothing about theme engines ;-)

Same here.  Don't know if it's a theme engine or not, but it seemed an
appropriate description.

> 
> 
>>
>>It is being executed through the superkaramba engine (written in c++ I
>>believe).  Not sure if I, or my users have enough gumption to do the
>>debugging you are referring to.  I have asked them to execute the script
>>which contains a number of print statements to verify that it is ignoring
>>the else statement.  Is there other debugging info that I should be
>>printing when running the script?
> Maybe write a little test of if/else that doesn't depend on any data that
> you don't control right in the test. E.g., since most of your tests test
> for == 1 or 0,
> 
>  >>> for testval in (0, 1, None, (), [], '', 'x'):
>  ...     if testval == 0: print '%r==0?'%(testval,), ...     else: print
>  'not %r==0?'%(testval,), ...     if testval == 1: print
>  '%r==1?'%(testval,), ...     else: print 'not %r==1?'%(testval,), ...    
>  if testval: print 'if %r?'%(testval,), ...     else: print 'not if
>  %r?'%(testval,), ...     print
>  ...
>  0==0? not 0==1? not if 0?
>  not 1==0? 1==1? if 1?
>  not None==0? not None==1? not if None? not ()==0? not ()==1? not if ()?
>  not []==0? not []==1? not if []?
>  not ''==0? not ''==1? not if ''?
>  not 'x'==0? not 'x'==1? if 'x'?
> 
> Everything should be true (with not prefixes considered).
> 
> If the if/else tests are not working right for local variables, maybe the
> results will be glitched. Also declare a global _with the rest, not a
> separate line_, say g_testval, and do another loop like the above with
> testval changed to g_testval everywhere. If either of these glitch, I'd
> bet on the global one, but I actually expect them both to work. It would
> make another data point though.
> 
> And just FTHOI, give them a version with 100% space indenting.
> 
> Then the question would be, if these tests work, why don't the tests in
> the original code. We could also ask users to run these tests in some
> simpler context -- what if they just run the above loops in a def test():
> (so there's a difference between local and global) with nothing more in
> the script than test() to invoke it? That must work from the console
> command line python, or they are totally FUBAR. But it's a data point on
> the no-errors side of the fence.
> 
> We could then break down the code into painfully primitive steps, and
> print (where does printing go, BTW? is stdout captured for you in a file?)
> the results of each step. Again if something is parsing and potentially
> modifying the code before executing, giving it something dead simple to
> parse might help. Can someone say if the code is given to the interpreter
> completely unmodified, so we can put that to rest?
> 
> In the meanwhile, if most users have no problem, maybe you have to make a
> table of user configurations -- versions of linux, bsd, python
> (multiversion? how last upgraded?), libraries? gcc stuff? etc. until a
> pattern emerges as to who has the problems and how they are different.
> 
> Maybe make a little script to capture all that info and make it easy for
> folks to give it to you. (I wouldn't try to make it automatically send an
> email without their informed consent, though ;-)
> 
> Regards,
> Bengt Richter

I'll contact the users, and see if they're up for it.

Matt



From fmeehan at ctbr.com  Wed Jul 23 13:19:26 2003
From: fmeehan at ctbr.com (Francois Meehan)
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 13:19:26 -0400
Subject: Getting started with win32pdh...
Message-ID: <bfmg5a$20v$1@main.gmane.org>

Hi all,

Can someone give me an example on how to use win32pdh module (that 
access windows performance counters)?  For example, how to retreive the 
number of processes running on a win2k server, with  the 
Objects-Processes counter?

Any ideas?

Francois






From zathras at thwackety.com  Fri Jul 25 04:48:33 2003
From: zathras at thwackety.com (Michael Sparks)
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 09:48:33 +0100 (BST)
Subject: generator function within a generator function doesn't execute?
In-Reply-To: <20030724190941.18070.00000520@mb-m17.aol.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0307250939540.31378-100000@pingu.thwackety.com>

Whereever you have this:
>     sleep(1.5)

You need to _run_ your generator - the above call just _creates_ the
generator. ie you'd change the above line to:

   for i in sleep(1.5):
      yield None

You've got the idea elsewhere AFAICT, just that you haven't chained the
execution of generators. (Generators don't nest - the yield keyword
instantly turns the function into a generator)

Chaining generators:

value,anotherValue,yetAnotherValue=1,2,3
if 1:
   def n_plus2():
      while 1:
         yield value

   def n_plus1():
      while 1:
         for i in n_plus2():
            yield (anotherValue,i)

   def n():
      while 1:
         for i in n_plus1():
            yield (yetAnotherValue,i)

   for i in n():
      print i

> expected.  Why doesn't the sleep() function execute?

In summary - it doesn't run because you're not iterating through the
generator created by your sleep function. You need to do this, and in
order to pass control back to your scheduler you need to yield a value
back whilst you iterate through.

Hope that helps,


Michael.






From jjl at pobox.com  Sun Jul 20 13:20:52 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 20 Jul 2003 18:20:52 +0100
Subject: Browser plugins
References: <bfdst8$2je$1@apollon.grec.isp.9tel.net>
Message-ID: <87el0lf72j.fsf@pobox.com>

"Aur?lien G?ron" <ageron at videotron.ca> writes:

> I'd like to write a simple portable browser plugin for Internet Explorer,
> Netscape and if possible other navigators too. Is there a way to do that
> using Python?  For now I'd like to develop something like the GoogleBar, but
> I'd also like to know how to develop "in-frame" plugins such as Flash or
> Realplayer.

I *think* Netscape plugins are quite simple, and it's not possible to
do things like toolbars without taking over the whole window.  I may
be completely wrong there -- I've never written one.  The Mozilla
documentation is no doubt the place to start (Netscape Navigator is
now a flavour of Mozilla, in case you don't know).  I'm sure Mozilla
will have lots of more sophisticated ways of doing things, but maybe
not ones that make it possible to write cross-browser code -- unless
you write a framework yourself, of course.

[...]
> Any ideas?  Any links to documentation for browser plugins development?  Any
> code examples or open source project I could check out?

It might not be as bad as it first appears, since XPCOM is heavily
modelled on MS COM, and was designed to interoperate with it to an
extent, I believe.  PyXPCOM exists (written by Mark Hammond, of
PythonCOM (etc.) fame).  Other starting points:

-ActiveX Control for Netscape plugins +
 Netscape plugin for ActiveX controls +
 Mozilla ActiveX control (not relevant to your question, but
  interesting)

 http://www.iol.ie/~locka/mozilla/mozilla.htm

 I think both Opera and Konqueror support Netscape plugins.


-Codeweavers sells a product that uses a hacked version of wine to
 allow ActiveX plugins to work in Mozilla, Konqueror, etc.  Called
 'Crossover Plugin', or something.


-Qt has classes for implementing Netscape plugins.  At least, it did
 -- can't find it in Qt 3.  Not sure if that's accessible from PyQt,
 either.  Qt for Windows is not free (but there is a weird
 noncommercial license for a single release of Qt/win 2.x).  Qt/win 3
 includes some COM support, so there's a chance that might help you do
 a cross-platform plugin, if you can afford the licence.

There may well be other ways of doing this, I haven't looked hard.
Google away...


John



From paul_rudin at scientia.com  Mon Jul 21 04:58:05 2003
From: paul_rudin at scientia.com (Paul Rudin)
Date: 21 Jul 2003 09:58:05 +0100
Subject: Python voting demo discussion
References: <KRMSa.112426$Io.9623657@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <3F1BA496.6080305@embeddedsystems.nl>
Message-ID: <u4r1guuhu.fsf@scientia.com>

>>>>> "Gerrit" == Gerrit Muller <gerrit.muller at embeddedsystems.nl> writes:

    > (very long links, will be broken by most newsreaders!)

Surrounding urls with angle brackets prevents most news/mail software
from inserting unwanted line breaks. I understand it even works with
the horrible OE!



From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Mon Jul 14 10:30:22 2003
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 14 Jul 2003 10:30:22 -0400
Subject: anything like C++ references?
References: <000301c348c7$3c501980$21795418@dell1700> <sag3hv4vf884ed7ouu5cv8ofnopp9j1t12@4ax.com> <f0f51c80.0307132003.264b6894@posting.google.com> <7dc4hvslh7a8fk9p6cvsfqa1c8d44rmmnv@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <beuepu$bsm$1@panix3.panix.com>

In article <7dc4hvslh7a8fk9p6cvsfqa1c8d44rmmnv at 4ax.com>,
Stephen Horne  <intentionally at blank.co.uk> wrote:
>
>C++ has precisely one type of variable. That variable is a placeholder
>for a value of a datatype which is specified in the declaration. The
>datatype may be a pointer datatype, but so what? Pointer datatypes are
>not treated any differently than other datatype except that they, like
>all datatypes, they have their own set of functionality.

Really?  I would argue that the differing syntaxes is an argument
against a single type of variable.  What happens with this:

char a;
a->b;
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"Not everything in life has a clue in front of it...."  --JMS



From jepler at unpythonic.net  Wed Jul 16 11:28:09 2003
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 10:28:09 -0500
Subject: How to crash Python in 1 easy step (python 2.2.2)
In-Reply-To: <7h3isq3n63w.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>
References: <2e363c08.0307130944.4c470bc3@posting.google.com> <b1919f11.0307150217.73a5bf2d@posting.google.com> <7h3isq3n63w.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <20030716152806.GA1967@unpythonic.net>

On Tue, Jul 15, 2003 at 03:55:37PM +0000, Michael Hudson wrote:
> This has almost surely got to be a readline problem.  Does it happen
> in (e.g.) gdb?

It happens in bc, but not in gdb or my shell.

The traceback is endless frames of
#2094 0x4045e803 in _rl_dispatch_subseq () from /usr/lib/libreadline.so.4
#2095 0x4045e77e in _rl_dispatch () from /usr/lib/libreadline.so.4
.. the same in bc or python

So does this simple C program:
	#include <stdio.h>
	#include <readline/readline.h>
	#include <readline/history.h>

	int main(void) {
		char *line = readline(">>>");
		if(line == NULL) return 1;
		printf("The user entered %s\n", line);
		free(line);
		return 0;
	}

It seems fairly clear that this is a readline bug.  I'm not sure what
Python can do about it, if anything...

Jeff




From gsmatthew at ozemail.com.au  Thu Jul 17 07:27:00 2003
From: gsmatthew at ozemail.com.au (Graeme Matthew)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 21:27:00 +1000
Subject: Python Asynchronous Services
Message-ID: <dKvRa.271$fF.8397@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au>

Hi all, I have hit a serious snag ...

I am writing an app server. I am happy with pythons threading etc however I
am totally confused with handling large request on a socket. For example I
can create a threadingTCPServer, the script that calls the app server might
send a file or an xml request. Where I am stuck is how do you handle large
files ?

for example:

while 1:
    data = recv(1024)
    if not data: break

surely in a thread this will block all other threads until all data is
recieved. I have also been told that one cannot rely on this mechanism as
the socket might end up in a continious loop, i.e you need to send a header
included in the data that states the length (bytes) that is been sent, or
you need some terminator, what happens if the terminator is within the
requests data and not at the end ?

please any help or examples as I have now been on this for 2 days without
any luck. I have looked at asyncore and asynchat, problem is once the server
socket input is completed then their will be an area that is CPU bound where
it will need to call the model, database etc and produce the html request,
this means that control will only be handed back to IO operations when this
is finished, effectively blocking all other requests  ....

I suppose another question is can python handle large files and requests at
the same time or is one better off simply forking the process even though
its costly ?

Many thanks .....





From mis6 at pitt.edu  Sat Jul  5 08:55:46 2003
From: mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato)
Date: 5 Jul 2003 05:55:46 -0700
Subject: module and file locations
References: <xtVMa.720$JI4.10080@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
Message-ID: <2259b0e2.0307050455.4d63c93d@posting.google.com>

Stuart Galloway <stuart at gallpath.com> wrote in message news:<xtVMa.720$JI4.10080 at news-server.bigpond.net.au>...
> Hi,
> 
> I am writing a debugging a Tkinter program.
> 
> While debugging I want to run it by pressing F5.
> When in use I want to run it by double-clicking (win2000)
> 
> The program reads and write to various files which I want to store in 
> the same directory (or a sub directory) of the main script.
> 
> My question is: How can my program where it lives so I can get the base 
> directory?
> argv[0]  - will this work debugging if I just import the file?
> There is some about finding where a module is.  This seems to return 
> readable text that would require parsing rather than just a file name
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Stuart

The global variable __file__ contains the file name of the current module. 
For instance

#put this in a file called x.py
print __file__ 

returns 'x.py' when you do

$ python x.py

For some strange reason it does not work if I execute x.py from IDLE 1.0b2
on a Windows 98SE machine. Is it working for you?  

                                                          Michele



From pw-google at terlkin.org  Mon Jul 14 13:02:59 2003
From: pw-google at terlkin.org (Peter Wilkinson)
Date: 14 Jul 2003 10:02:59 -0700
Subject: Problem with MySQLdb on Mac OS X...
References: <110720032317344670%candiazoo@mac.com> <mailman.1058024298.17294.python-list@python.org> <120720032321075007%candiazoo@mac.com>
Message-ID: <3344b1fa.0307140315.321bb6b2@posting.google.com>

"Michael S. Jessop" <candiazoo at mac.com> wrote in message news:<120720032321075007%candiazoo at mac.com>...
> [[ This message was both posted and mailed: see
>    the "To," "Cc," and "Newsgroups" headers for details. ]]
> 
> I tried supplying host as well, same error.    :/   Something is hosed. 
> I guess I could try reinstalling.  I really want to get this to work. 
> I am trying to write a maintenance program for my wife, so she can
> remotely modify the database containing information about her artwork,
> distribution lists, etc.
> 

I see exactly the same problem. My install is with MySQL and Python
both via Fink. Trying both 2.2 and 2.3 Python I get the same problem.

Trying to dig into it a little it looks as though the setup code isn't
populating some of the fields and methods and the error thrown shows
up because self.converter is set to None.

I'm going to try and figure this out but would be interested in any
insight others might have.

Peter.



From gh at ghaering.de  Thu Jul 17 11:12:13 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 17:12:13 +0200
Subject: Python2.3 logging utilities
In-Reply-To: <20030717142015.77268.qmail@web41504.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20030717142015.77268.qmail@web41504.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3F16BCCD.9060409@ghaering.de>

Samir Patel wrote:
> First of all, hats of on logging module in python 2.3.
> Very elegant...
> 
> I have 2 questions regarding Handler class in logging:
> [...]
> 2. SMTPHandler: Is there any way to send an email
> where server requires authentication through
> logconfig.ini file. I send an email message to myself
> through logging and SMTPHandler and it works perfect,
> but if I want to send an email to external email
> address, I can't do it because replying is not allow.
> I can do it this in a python program by using ehlo and
> docmd of smtplib object, 

There's no need for such low-level hacks. SMTP AUTH is accessible 
through the login() method of SMTP objects.

> but how can I do same thing
> in loggers' config.ini file.

You can't, currently. You're welcome to submit a patch that provides 
this feature, though :) From a quick glance it should be quite easy to 
implement. While at it, it would make sense to be able to use a 
nonstandard SMTP port as well :)

-- Gerhard




From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Wed Jul 23 09:04:37 2003
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 08:04:37 -0500
Subject: lists and files question
In-Reply-To: <3F1DCF52.7040607@hotmail.com> (hokiegal99's message of "Tue,
 22 Jul 2003 19:57:06 -0400")
References: <3F1DCF52.7040607@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <m2ptk1e6my.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

Others have already answered your question - I just want to point out
a few of other things

    import os, re, string
    setpath = raw_input("Enter the path: ")
    for root, dirs, files in os.walk(setpath):
    	id = re.compile('Microsoft Excel Worksheet')

1) id is a built in function; you may not want to override it with
   your variable name

   >>> x = 1
   >>> id(x)
   135313208

2) The reason to use re.compile is for efficiency.  There is no need
   to call it inside the loop, since you're just recompiling the same
   regex over and over again.  Instead, compile the regex outside the
   loop

    >>> rgx = re.compile('[A-Z]+')
    >>> for some_text in some_list:
    ...     m = rgx.match(some_text)

3) If you want to match 'Microsoft Excel Worksheet', you don't need
   regular expressions since this is a string literal.  You will
   probably be better off just using the string find method, as in

   s.find('Microsoft Excel Worksheet')

4) You may want to look at the path module, which provides a nice
   interface for walking over files:
   http://www.jorendorff.com/articles/python/path/

    >>> from path import path
    >>> xldir = path(setpath)
    >>> for f in xldir.files('*.xls'):
    ...     print f.read().find('Microsoft Excel Worksheet')

Cheers,
John Hunter




From mcherm at mcherm.com  Tue Jul  1 13:13:50 2003
From: mcherm at mcherm.com (Michael Chermside)
Date: Tue,  1 Jul 2003 10:13:50 -0700
Subject: Good code patterns in Python
Message-ID: <1057079630.3f01c14ed962a@mcherm.com>

Will Stuyvesant writes:
> If you know that your source code is going to be used
> later by others, then I feel that code with the pattern:
> 
>     if some_condition:
>         some_name = some_value
>     else:
>         some_name = other_value
> 
> is often a mistake.  Much better, safer, would be:
> 
>     some_name = some_value
>     if not some_condition:
>         some_name = other_value

I disagree with you... I think that the first form is superior
to the second. Here are two reasons.

My number one reason is readability. Seeing "some_name = some_value"
when some_name is ACTUALLY going to take on other_value is very
misleading to the reader. Particularly in Python, I strive to make
my code very readable -- it's typically more important to me to be
readable than it is to be fast. Furthermore, if the code is easily
understood, then that maintanence programmer or re-user of your
code that you mentioned is less likely to make a mistake like leaving
some_name undefined.

My second reason is the danger of this maintanence programmer. You
are concerned that they might "change or adapt the 'if' part".
Frankly, I don't find this to be much of a worry. After all, the
use of an if with an else clause CLEARLY indicates that you expect
one of these two branches to be taken, and that if they change it
so neither is taken, they'd better be sure they know what they're
doing. On the other hand, I'm QUITE worried about the maintanence
programmer modifying your second example. If they somehow fail to set 
some_name it would result in "NameError: name 'some_name' is not 
defined" the first time that it used -- a pretty clear error message.
But (unlike modifying the if-else), a maintanence programmer is quite
likely to simply add some new lines of code... perhaps (foolishly)
between the first assignment and the if statement. If this happened,
the resulting error would be that some_name DID have a value, but
it was the WRONG value. This could result in some peculiar exception
at an arbitrary time, or (much worse) perhaps NO exception at all...
the program would proceed, producing incorrect data with no warning.

Finally, I'd like to make reference to the wonderful world of unit
tests. If the code has no unit tests, then either error is possible.
But if there are unit tests, then the person who re-uses that code
and modifies it so that some_name is no longer set properly will
find a test failing. This will immediately alert them that their
change is causing problems... they will examine the situation and
either fix the problem or change the test ("now I WANT some_name to
be undefined in some cases").

-- Michael Chermside





From yzzzzz at netcourrier.com  Fri Jul 18 08:40:46 2003
From: yzzzzz at netcourrier.com (yzzzzz)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 14:40:46 +0200
Subject: Using Unicode scripts
References: <3f17c520$0$7194$626a54ce@news.free.fr> <mailman.1058524589.28334.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3f17eace$0$23860$626a54ce@news.free.fr>

OK, problem solved!
I got the new Python, it all works. I just had to add the UTF-8 BOM myself
(UltraEdit doesn't do it by default) but that wasn't too difficult to do
(copy and paste a ZWNBSP).

One last question: I'm using windows, so the console's encoding is CP437. If
I try to print a unicode string, the string is converted to CP437 and
printed and that works fine. However if I try to print a normal
(non-unicode) string from a UTF-8 encoded file with BOM, for example print
"?", it sends out the two UTF-8 bytes ?? which appear as lines in the CP437
charset. But if I print the exact same character in a Latin 1 encoded file,
it comes out as the Latin 1 byte for "?" which shows up as a theta in CP437.
This means that Python doesn't take into account the specified encoding
(Latin 1 or UTF-8) and prints out the raw bytes as they appear in the source
file, regardless of the encoding used. Is this normal? (this isn't really a
problem for me as I am only going to use unicode strings now)





From jack at performancedrivers.com  Tue Jul 15 00:40:24 2003
From: jack at performancedrivers.com (Jack Diederich)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 00:40:24 -0400
Subject: anything like C++ references?
In-Reply-To: <dsq6hv4vi1qhsksv56h8lqd7rlqh58ir05@4ax.com>; from intentionally@blank.co.uk on Tue, Jul 15, 2003 at 03:59:53AM +0100
References: <bes0ps$l6$1@panix3.panix.com> <qi13hv4s21i8mtr2e600jumm54hqs7tppu@4ax.com> <mailman.1058125699.26133.python-list@python.org> <sag3hv4vf884ed7ouu5cv8ofnopp9j1t12@4ax.com> <f0f51c80.0307132003.264b6894@posting.google.com> <7dc4hvslh7a8fk9p6cvsfqa1c8d44rmmnv@4ax.com> <f0f51c80.0307140649.61cc1fe2@posting.google.com> <41e6hvcl2q5bdjqlp30t1gfq42j2tgo4u4@4ax.com> <SDJQa.63050$N7.7668@sccrnsc03> <dsq6hv4vi1qhsksv56h8lqd7rlqh58ir05@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <20030715004024.E1005@localhost.localdomain>

On Tue, Jul 15, 2003 at 03:59:53AM +0100, Stephen Horne wrote:
> 
> The term 'variable' is defined by mathematics and computer science.
> The fact that Python has arbitrarily redefined it is the cause of very
> real confusion and errors.
> 

Previously I thought you were just trolling.  But what are we going on now?
three days?  <stanlee>I know you, true believer.</stanlee>

This is not C++, this is python:

[Jack as an undergrad, entering his prof's office]

Me: Sir, Mr Diederich here. you asked me to come by?
Prof: I've something to tell you, prophecy of a sort.
Me: a quick sort?
Prof: no, a prophecy sort.
Me: I haven't taken that course yet.
Prof: *sigh* You had some trouble in class today?
Me: variable.
Prof: variably across the board, but variables constantly.
Me: that's my problem, constantly variables.
Prof: you just did it again.
Me: you just lost me again.
Prof: Son, comp sci has fallen into confusion.
Me: constant or variable?
Prof [raised eyebrow]
Prof: Ada of Lovelace wrote about this a long, long time ago.  Our profession
      has fallen into disrepair, but one will come to make all things clear.
Me: I'm not up to it, Sir.
Prof: *glance* fallen into disrepair, but hope will come in the form of a man.
Me: Still not ready, Sir.
Prof: *thwap* You will know Him by his heresy and by his name 'Stephen'
Me: Its Jack Sir, you've been my adviser for two semesters.
Prof: *solid beating* You will know Him by his heresy, by his name 'Stephen'
      and his never ending glyphs.
Me: glyphs Sir?
Prof: don't be an asshole, He will type a lot.
Me: And I will know Him by his typing?
Prof: No, you will know Him by his heresy, his name 'Stephen', AND his typing.


Prof: And pasties, he will definitely be wearing pasties.


-jack




From tjreedy at udel.edu  Sat Jul  5 17:26:11 2003
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2003 17:26:11 -0400
Subject: What does this core dump mean?
References: <be6n34$824$1@mawar.singnet.com.sg>
Message-ID: <TY6dnX7OCuPp35qiU-KYvw@comcast.com>

> I just noticed that demo/evp_ciph_test.py of my M2Crypto package
> causes a core dump. It used to not do that. ;-)

I cannot interprete the gdb trace either.  Info on the platform,
Python version, what you changed to change the behavior, and the
reproducibility of the dump behavior might help someone who can.

TJR





From anton at vredegoor.doge.nl  Wed Jul  2 13:00:18 2003
From: anton at vredegoor.doge.nl (Anton Vredegoor)
Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 19:00:18 +0200
Subject: splitting a string into 2 new strings
References: <bdue2n$m07$1@aspen.sucs.soton.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <bdv360$nt2$1@news.hccnet.nl>

"Mark Light" <light at soton.ac.uk> wrote:

>      I have a string e.g. 'C6 H12 O6' that I wish to split up to give 2
>strings
>'C H O' and '6 12 6'.  I have played with string.split() and the re module -
>but can't quite get there.

The issue seems to be resolved already, but I haven't seen the split
and strip combination:

from string import letters,digits

def mysplit(s):
    L = [(x.strip(digits) ,x.strip(letters))  for x in s.split()]
    return [ ' '.join(x) for x in zip(*L)]

Anton



From skip at pobox.com  Thu Jul 31 13:22:03 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 12:22:03 -0500
Subject: time, calendar, datetime, etc
In-Reply-To: <bgaphh$lua$1@news7.svr.pol.co.uk>
References: <153fa67.0307300326.45a29380@posting.google.com>
        <mailman.1059631303.24782.python-list@python.org>
        <bgaphh$lua$1@news7.svr.pol.co.uk>
Message-ID: <16169.20539.104524.273029@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    Ben> Problem is, time.localtime() doesn't return a 9-element tuple any
    Ben> more, it returns a struct_time. (Since 2.2, I think.)

Struct_time objects work like tuples, and you get the added
benefit of named attribute access:

    >>> t = time.localtime()
    >>> t
    (2003, 7, 31, 12, 19, 35, 3, 212, 1)
    >>> t[2]
    31
    >>> t.tm_mday
    31
    >>> t.tm_isdst
    1
    >>> t[-1]
    1
    >>> t[0:3]
    (2003, 7, 31)

Skip




From paul at boddie.net  Tue Jul  1 05:11:27 2003
From: paul at boddie.net (Paul Boddie)
Date: 1 Jul 2003 02:11:27 -0700
Subject: Fast CGI Vs Java Application Servers
References: <kAxLa.592$_I3.34571@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au> <20030630120924.209$qh@newsreader.com>
Message-ID: <23891c90.0307010111.43fd3c43@posting.google.com>

ctcgag at hotmail.com wrote in message news:<20030630120924.209$qh at newsreader.com>...
> Charles Handy <chppxf1 at NOSPAM_yahoo.com.au> wrote:
> > How does FastCGI compare against java Apps running in java app servers
> > like TomCat, Sun One, WebLogic and WebSphere?  Is there a business case
> > for switching from CGI to Java?
> 
> Do you want there to be one?

I think that other contributors to this thread have given interesting
"recruitment cases" for introducing Java (the usual stuff about Java
being a standard and there being lots of "Java people" in the job
market), but then FastCGI/CGI is a very vague term. Is the application
in question written in C or C++ (insane as that may seem to developers
using more modern languages)? Is the person who posted the question
still reading this thread? ;-)

One might well argue that a switch from C/C++ to Java might be a
worthwhile investment, given the benefits of Java over those
languages, but a switch from Tcl, Perl or Python to Java needs to be
more rigourously justified in my opinion.

> > Performance?
> 
> I've seen dozens of features that were implemented in CGI (not mod_perl
> or FastCGI) rewritten to run on a java app server on a beefier machine.
> None of them were noticably faster, and many were slower.

In various respects, I also believe this to be true. However, there
was an interesting case a few months ago where the scalability of Zope
was compared with WebSphere on some serious hardware. The outcome
(which highlighted certain issues with Zope's threaded execution
model, at least in the way it was employed in that particular case)
doesn't reduce the relevance of other solutions available for Tcl,
Perl and Python. Indeed, in Python solutions there are various
different execution models on offer:

  http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/moinmoin/WebProgramming

Contrast Twisted, mod_python, Webware and SkunkWeb.

> > Productivity?
> 
> I'm about 5x less productive in Java.

Indeed. But in the development of a Web application, one also has to
consider how productive different members of the extended team are,
too. That can have a lot more to do with the chosen technologies
deployed on top of the programming language and application server in
question.

[...]

> > Code Reuse?
> 
> Switching a working application to a new language is about the
> greatest possible crime there is against code reuse.

"We believe in code reuse. Apart from the system we just threw away,
of course."

Paul



From mcherm at mcherm.com  Thu Jul 10 10:25:11 2003
From: mcherm at mcherm.com (Michael Chermside)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 07:25:11 -0700
Subject: Deleting specific characters from a string
Message-ID: <1057847111.3f0d77471178b@mcherm.com>

Paul Rudin  writes:
> I haven't been following this thread closely but isn't a regexp the
> obvious way to do this? 

No. The one thing that's QUITE clear is that there are multiple ways
to do this, some of which are more readable than others, but there's
no "one obvious way".

>                         I'd expect it to be faster than your solution
> - particularly on large input (although I haven't actually
> tried). 

Hmm... I doubt it. I'd expect the translate() version to be the
fastest, with multiple string.remove()'s being competative when
the number of different characters to be removed is small. RE's
are NOT renown for their speed when doing simple character
replacement, deletion or insertion on strings. But _I_ haven't 
timed it either, so I'm going to shut up now.

-- Michael Chermside


-------------------------------------------------
This mail sent through IMP: http://horde.org/imp/




From glauco at sferacarta.com  Mon Jul 28 05:47:46 2003
From: glauco at sferacarta.com (Glauco)
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 09:47:46 GMT
Subject: Python and VS.Net
References: <mailman.1058934395.4215.python-list@python.org> <bflf99$aqd$1@slb9.atl.mindspring.net> <mailman.1058989177.1549.python-list@python.org> <bfo14i$ibh$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net> <221d8dbe.0307272345.63503afd@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <6j6Va.208584$lK4.6037642@twister1.libero.it>

Good work . i hope in a fast, simple, pythonic solution for WS in .NET ..

I wrote a client library in python based on SOAPpy for use of WS in .NET .
Is very difficult for me understand how many solution and how it works 
for this  scope. The server i must use has 2 kind os Web Services ..

I understood that in .NET  you can create 2 kind of client.

The SOAP-XML is something like an XML body into the SOAP message

and the other is SOAP-RPC , i think this is a sort of a full enveloping 
of msg.


I've builded some client whith SOAP-XML and it works whith a little of 
manipulation in some modules of package SOAPpy but now im'trying to 
"simply understand" how to use SOAP-RPC Web Service and how to modify my 
libs fot the scope.

Someone use this 2 types of .NET Web Services with Python ?

sorry for my engl.
Glauco




From jlh at cox.net  Thu Jul 10 00:35:39 2003
From: jlh at cox.net (Jeff Hinrichs)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 04:35:39 GMT
Subject: Deleting specific characters from a string
References: <begfb3$7j6$1@online.de> <3F0C851C.4000500@livinglogic.de><3F0C8AC3.5010304@dadsetan.com> <mailman.1057789156.27025.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <v26Pa.3428$o86.363@news1.central.cox.net>

"John Hunter" <jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu> wrote in message
news:mailman.1057789156.27025.python-list at python.org...
> >>>>> "Behrang" == Behrang Dadsetan <ben at dadsetan.com> writes:
>
>     Behrang> is going to finally be what I am going to use.  I not
>     Behrang> feel lambdas are so readable, unless one has serious
>     Behrang> experience in using them and python in general. I feel it
>     Behrang> is acceptable to add a named method that documents with
>     Behrang> its name what it is doing there.
>
> If you want to go the functional programing route, you can generalize
> your function somewhat using a callable class:
>
> class remove_char:
>     def __init__(self,remove):
>         self.remove = dict([ (c,1) for c in remove])
>
>     def __call__(self,c):
>         return not self.remove.has_key(c)
>
> print filter(remove_char('on'), 'John Hunter')
I've been following this thread, and on a whim I built a test harness to
time the different ideas that have been put forth in this thread.  I will
post complete results tomorrow on the web but the short version is that
using the .replace method is the overall champ by quite a bit.  Below is the
function I tested against the others in the harness:

def stringReplace(s,c):
"""Remove any occurrences of characters in c, from string s
    s - string to be filtered, c - characters to filter"""
    for a in c:
        s = s.replace(a,'')
    return s

It wins also by being easy to understand, no filter or lambda.  Not that I
have anything against filter or lambda, but when the speediest method is the
most readable, that solution is definitely the Pythonic champ. :)

-Jeff Hinrichs






From creedy at mitretek.org  Tue Jul 15 11:14:12 2003
From: creedy at mitretek.org (Chris Reedy)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 11:14:12 -0400
Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re=3A_Python_Mystery_Theatre_--_Episode?=
 =?ISO-8859-1?Q?_2=3A__As=ED_Fue?=
In-Reply-To: <bf145d$ijc$1@panix2.panix.com>
References: <VorQa.15236$Kw1.587@nwrdny02.gnilink.net> <3F140F34.1030401@mitretek.org> <bf145d$ijc$1@panix2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <3f141a3e_2@corp-news.newsgroups.com>

Aahz wrote:
> In article <3F140F34.1030401 at mitretek.org>,
> Chris Reedy  <creedy at mitretek.org> wrote:
> 
>>Aside: I have to admit that the ((42,) * 2) did confuse me at first. I'm 
>>so used to doing 2 * (42,) when I want to repeat a sequence that I 
>>hadn't thought about the reversed form.
> 
> 
> My experience is that most people do it the way Ray did, <seq> * <reps>.

This must be my math background confusing me. Conventionally, a+a is 
written as 2a, and a*a is written as a^2 (or a**2). Of course, if you 
recognize that concatenation of sequences is really a multiplication (by 
convention in mathematics addition is always a commutative operator), 
a*2 makes sense. I guess I'll change the way I write this in the future.




From staschuk at telusplanet.net  Thu Jul 31 02:06:17 2003
From: staschuk at telusplanet.net (Steven Taschuk)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 00:06:17 -0600
Subject: Exceptions as New Style Classes
In-Reply-To: <olYVa.6227$Jz2.693@nwrdny02.gnilink.net>; from imbosol@aerojockey.com on Wed, Jul 30, 2003 at 11:16:36PM +0000
References: <98c4ab9a.0307300830.72dcdc74@posting.google.com> <mailman.1059599265.28808.python-list@python.org> <olYVa.6227$Jz2.693@nwrdny02.gnilink.net>
Message-ID: <20030731000617.A2806@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>

Quoth Carl Banks:
> Steven Taschuk wrote:
> > At the moment the dominant idea for solving these problems is to
> > make inheritance from Exception mandatory for exception types; see
  [...]
> Why not give exceptions their own metaclass?  So if type(x) is
> ExceptionMetaclass, it's a class.  If type(type(x)) is
> ExceptionMetaclass, it's an instance.  Otherwise, it's illegal to
> raise it.

That seems workable.  (I'd prefer, though, to test
    isinstance(type(x), ExceptionMetaclass)
and likewise for the second case.)

I'm not sure what it gains us, though, over the idea of mandatory
inheritance from Exception.  Am I missing something?

-- 
Steven Taschuk                  staschuk at telusplanet.net
"Telekinesis would be worth patenting."  -- James Gleick




From irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl  Thu Jul 24 17:22:46 2003
From: irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 23:22:46 +0200
Subject: i've been close to python's cradle :)
In-Reply-To: <slrnbi00vi.2oo.sybrenUSE@sybren.thirdtower.com>
References: <3f1fdf40$0$8301$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net> <slrnbi00vi.2oo.sybrenUSE@sybren.thirdtower.com>
Message-ID: <3f204e26$0$49113$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

Sybren Stuvel wrote:

> I live close to the CWI, and will probably even do a few courses
> there. Perhaps I'll look up Guido sometime :)

Hard time finding him at the CWI:
http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope3-dev/2003-July/007598.html

Guido's been working in the USA for quite some time now.

--Irmen




From belred1 at yahoo.com  Tue Jul 29 09:44:42 2003
From: belred1 at yahoo.com (Bryan)
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 13:44:42 GMT
Subject: Papers on Python
References: <8b36138c.0307281644.f6569ea@posting.google.com> <bg5htl$b2h$1@news.hccnet.nl>
Message-ID: <eTuVa.6400$cF.2303@rwcrnsc53>

"Anton Vredegoor" <anton at vredegoor.doge.nl> wrote in message
news:bg5htl$b2h$1 at news.hccnet.nl...
> rick_hunter357 at hotmail.com (Rick) wrote:
>
> >PS. Before someone starts on how college kids are using the internet
> >(or the help available on the 'net) to do the work for them, No I am
> >not cheating. The actual assignment is to select 9 papers that you
> >find interesting and write a report on each of them. I already have my
> >9 papers selected. Now I want to know if I would like to replace some
> >from my collection.
>
> Why not take 9 threads in this newsgroup or the Python developers
> mailing list and write a report on that? Of course you'd have to
> convince your teacher somehow that this is the way things work
> nowadays and that the days where a single author wrote a monolithic
> paper are gone.
>
> Knowledge production and decision making are much more interactive and
> hands-on than before, and discussions involve a lot more people of
> varying degrees of expertise and having a more diverse background.
>
> If it makes any difference: I would love to see some threads reviewed,
> especially threads that have had some time to cool down and that can
> be viewed from some distance now. Post the result of your assignment
> here, you'll get free error checking this way and at the same time you
> prove that the system works by interacting with it. Isn't it Pythonic
> :-)
>
> Anton.
>

anton, excellant idea.  here are the most recent 3 threads that contain over
100 postings... must be good "report material" in these...

201 postings
anything like C++ references

130 postings
does lack of type declarations make Python unsafe?    - has

130 postings
opening a text document to show a .txt file through a browser link

bryan





From ianb at colorstudy.com  Wed Jul  2 20:16:14 2003
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: 02 Jul 2003 19:16:14 -0500
Subject: Suggesting for overloading the assign operator
In-Reply-To: <bdve6b$2nq$0@216.39.172.122>
References: <6f03c4a5.0306301931.3f15fbb7@posting.google.com>
	 <mailman.1057072504.30095.python-list@python.org>
	 <bdteop$t9u$0@216.39.172.122>
	 <mailman.1057156208.3507.python-list@python.org>
	 <bdve6b$2nq$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <1057191374.720.198.camel@lothlorien>

On Wed, 2003-07-02 at 15:09, Bengt Richter wrote:
> Hm, it just occurred to me that one could have yet another form of sugar
> [ It's now later, and I think this may be more than sugar ;-) ]
> to help with this, by treating the dot operator slightly more symmetrically,
> like, e.g., '+'.
> 
> Example, then explanation:
> 
>      a = 7 .USD   # (using symbols from http://www.xe.com/iso4217.htm by convention, no hard defs)
>      # ...
>      a = 6 .USD

Does 7 .USD *really* look that much better than USD(7)?  And, really,
how often do you need currency literals?  All my currency values come
from non-literal sources -- databases and XML files, an excel
spreadsheet, etc.  I don't think this objection is particular to
currency either -- for most types this is true.  If you are using them a
lot, you are acquiring them from non-code sources.

Though I suppose Rebol would be a counterexample.  And, in the case of
scripting (a kind of programming, not a kind of programming language :)
it might be a more valid need.  But most of Rebol's interesting data
types aren't syntactically valid in Python anyway.

  Ian






From altis at semi-retired.com  Sun Jul 13 12:59:37 2003
From: altis at semi-retired.com (Kevin Altis)
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 09:59:37 -0700
Subject: PythonCard newbie question
References: <Xns93B71174A7F15karllopeshotmailcom@24.69.255.211>
Message-ID: <a8gQa.27$9A.52005@news.uswest.net>

Yep, the problem is PythonCard has been using the __version__ attribute from
a low-level wxPython module when it shouldn't have and in wxPython 2.4.1 the
location of the __version__ attribute in that low-level module changed and
so it broke PythonCard. This is fixed in cvs and will be fixed in release
0.7.1 which I plan to get out this week after I have recovered from OSCON.

The fix is simple, simply change the line in PythonCardPrototype/model.py to

assert wx.__version__ >= "2.3.3"

the reference in the resourceEditor can be removed entirely.

ka

"Karl Lopes" <karl_lopes at hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns93B71174A7F15karllopeshotmailcom at 24.69.255.211...
> Hello All,
>  I downloaded and installed PythonCard. When I try to run the minimal app
> in samples
> I get the following errors: module' object has no attribute 'Background'.
>                           : module' object has no attribute '__version__'
> Any ideas what I am missing here.
> Thanks
> Karl.




From abelikov72 at hotmail.com  Wed Jul  9 21:14:06 2003
From: abelikov72 at hotmail.com (Afanasiy)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 01:14:06 GMT
Subject: Embedding Python, threading and scalability
References: <ec23a1ae.0307081354.5fc06cb@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <5oepgvkrju9ilu33rlatgnajet7f3cjprj@4ax.com>

On 8 Jul 2003 14:54:22 -0700, wenning_qiu at csgsystems.com (Wenning Qiu)
wrote:

>I am researching issues related to emdedding Python in C++ for a
>project.
>
>My project will be running on an SMP box and requires scalability.
>However, my test shows that Python threading has very poor performance
>in terms of  scaling. In fact it doesn't scale at all.
>
>I wrote a simple test program to complete given number of iterations
>of a simple loop. The total number of iterations can be divided evenly
>among a number of threads. My test shows that as the number of threads
>grows, the CPU usage grows and the response time gets longer. For
>example, to complete the same amount of work, one thread takes 10
>seconds, 2 threads take 20 seconds and 3 threads take 30 seconds.
>
>The fundamental reason for lacking scalability is that Python uses a
>global interpreter lock for thread safety. That global lock must be
>held by a thread before it can safely access Python objects.

I asked once and was told it was best fixed by removing the documentation
which mentioned it. Others also stated it was unlikely to be fixed.

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&threadm=53u1evk5jmdcgma5e8eupbe3tn45js302i%404ax.com&rnum=1&prev=/groups%3Fhl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26oe%3DUTF-8%26selm%3D53u1evk5jmdcgma5e8eupbe3tn45js302i%25404ax.com

However, I believe Lua since 4-work4, just before Lua 5, solved this.
Unfortunately Lua is not Python.

Another thing to consider if you care about SMP, is your C/C++ memory
management, assuming you aren't using something custom already, maybe a
shared heap. I have worked wonders with libhoard (and SmartHeap,
commercially). Some applications will run slower on SMP than if you
removed one of the processors.

www.hoard.org
www.microquill.com

mmm, graphs

-AB



From bober at acm.cs.nyu.edu  Tue Jul  1 21:20:29 2003
From: bober at acm.cs.nyu.edu (Jonathan Bober)
Date: 01 Jul 2003 20:20:29 -0500
Subject: Idiomatic way of repeating items in a sequence.
In-Reply-To: <A128D751272CD411BC9200508BC2194D018856B1@escpl.tcp.com.ar>
References: <A128D751272CD411BC9200508BC2194D018856B1@escpl.tcp.com.ar>
Message-ID: <1057108829.433.9.camel@ziggy>

On Mon, 2003-06-30 at 10:53, Batista, Facundo wrote:

> Whitout a lambda and without a for:
> 
> def repeatitems(L, n):
> 	return [x for x in L*n]
> 
> CAUTION: the resulting list is not in the same order of your example:
> 
> >>> repeatitems(['a', 'b', 'c'], 3)
> ['a', 'b', 'c', 'a', 'b', 'c', 'a', 'b', 'c']

OUCH!!!
this code hurts so bad that i must respond...

L * n

is the same as 

[x for x in L * n]

except that the latter iterates through L * n applying the identity
transformation, and is much much slower.

keep things simple.








From jordan at krushen.com  Mon Jul 21 03:45:19 2003
From: jordan at krushen.com (Jordan Krushen)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 07:45:19 GMT
Subject: httplib\urllib attributes problem
References: <mailman.1058768851.9542.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <oprsng7vhi5ctagx@shawnews>

On Sun, 20 Jul 2003 21:28:54 +0200, Bobbie <lorenb2 at bezeqint.net> wrote:

> The problem with urllib2 is that a "User-agent: Python-urllib/2.0a1" is, 
> again, sent
> by default. in case I setup a "User-Agent" attribute of my own it just, 
> again, sends
> them both. Note the lower-case 'a' letter in the former user-agent
> automatically sent by the library.  I can't even overrun it because of 
> that.
>
> I'll be happy for any kind of help, suggestion,...

At least for this one, here's the relevant code from urllib2.py:

class OpenerDirector:
    def __init__(self):
        server_version = "Python-urllib/%s" % __version__
        self.addheaders = [('User-agent', server_version)]

You should be able to override your opener's addheaders attribute 
(untested):

opener.addheaders = None

J.



From FBatista at uniFON.com.ar  Fri Jul  4 15:11:30 2003
From: FBatista at uniFON.com.ar (Batista, Facundo)
Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 16:11:30 -0300 
Subject: sys.setedefaultencoding()
Message-ID: <A128D751272CD411BC9200508BC2194D018856ED@escpl.tcp.com.ar>

#- sys.setdefaultencoding() shouldn't be used by application programs;
#- it was added for test purposes only.
#- 
#- if you really need to change the encoding, tweak site or 
#- sitecustomize,
#- and be aware that 1) python programs you write may not work on other
#- systems, and 2) extensions may not work properly on your system.

Why? I *always* work with this type of enconding (I live in Argentina).


#- > - Why this happens?
#- 
#- site.py removes the function.

Thanks! I changed it.





From guettler at thomas-guettler.de  Fri Jul 18 03:00:50 2003
From: guettler at thomas-guettler.de (Thomas =?ISO-8859-15?Q?G=FCttler?=)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 09:00:50 +0200
Subject: Solved: tkinter: Better Traceback
References: <bf3egf$agtqo$1@ID-63505.news.uni-berlin.de> <mailman.1058367564.11299.python-list@python.org> <bf61ug$bbokc$1@ID-63505.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <bf85v2$bt30g$1@ID-63505.news.uni-berlin.de>

Thomas G?ttler wrote:

> Fredrik Lundh wrote:
> 
>> Thomas G?ttler wrote:
>> 
>>> Is there a way to get a better traceback in tkinter?
>>> It would be nice to see the line number of the last line
>>> of "my" code.
>>>
>>> Exception in Tkinter callback
>>> Traceback (most recent call last):
>>>   File
>>>   "/var/tmp/python-2.2.2-build//usr/lib/python2.2/lib-tk/Tkinter.py",
>>> line 1299, in __call__
>>>     args = apply(self.subst, args)
>>>   File
>>>   "/var/tmp/python-2.2.2-build//usr/lib/python2.2/lib-tk/Tkinter.py",
>>> line 1035, in _substitute
>>>     e.height = getint(h)
>>> ValueError: invalid literal for int(): ??
>> 
>> it's not a bug in your code, it's an incompatible change in Tk 8.4.2,
>> which uses "??" to represent an "undefined integer".
>> 
>> either upgrade your Tkinter (Python 2.3 contains a workaround), or down-
>> grade your Tk to 8.4.1 or earlier (or link Tkinter against Tk 8.3.x).
> 
> Hi Fredrik,
> 
> Both solutions are need to change this which only root can do.
> The application will be installed on several workstations
> running Suse Linux8.2. Is there a workaround?
> 
> Would be good if I could use the default python (2.2.2)
> and TK version (8.4.2).
> 
>  thomas

Solved with the new python-tk rpm from:
 http://www.suse.de/en/private/download/updates/82_i386.html

 thomas




From usenet_spam at janc.invalid  Wed Jul  9 23:25:35 2003
From: usenet_spam at janc.invalid (JanC)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 03:25:35 GMT
Subject: Image Streaming
References: <381a2b17.0307072326.211c21b5@posting.google.com> <beetng$q06$1@peabody.colorado.edu> <Xns93B337ABED93CJanC@213.118.75.80> <behk02$9d8$1@peabody.colorado.edu>
Message-ID: <Xns93B4373301231JanC@213.118.75.80>

Fernando Perez <fperez528 at yahoo.com> schreef:

>>> or even gif (the patents expired recently).
>> 
>> Only in the US, not in (some countries in) Europe & Japan.
> 
> Ah, you're right.  But I think they also expire soon, don't they?

Somewhere next year IIRC (at least in most countries).

-- 
JanC

"Be strict when sending and tolerant when receiving."
RFC 1958 - Architectural Principles of the Internet - section 3.9



From Thomas.Sunshine at web.de  Tue Jul 22 10:18:58 2003
From: Thomas.Sunshine at web.de (Thomas M.)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 16:18:58 +0200
Subject: How do i run an external program in an python script?
References: <bfjfg3$gos$1@ngspool-d02.news.aol.com>
Message-ID: <bfjh4j$9kj$1@newsreader2.netcologne.de>

> I have no idea about python. I got a c++ program which i want to be
> called from an python script. How do i do that?
> 
> My programs path under Linux is:
> /bin/Prinit

import os
(prinit_input, prinit_output) = os.popen2('/bin/Prinit')


input and output are filelike objects...

     




From pascalbarbedor at free.fr  Tue Jul 29 06:14:58 2003
From: pascalbarbedor at free.fr (pascal barbedor)
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 12:14:58 +0200
Subject: blanks embedded in python 2.3 optparse
References: <3f2625b7$0$24594$626a54ce@news.free.fr> <bg5aol$knuk3$1@ID-141451.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <3f26490b$0$24605$626a54ce@news.free.fr>

> you need to quote the name like
> prog --name="mr jones"
>
> That should work
>
> Karl
>


it works thanks





From raims at dot.com  Sun Jul 20 05:29:03 2003
From: raims at dot.com (Lawrence Oluyede)
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 11:29:03 +0200
Subject: object as a reserved keyword
Message-ID: <vtnkhvoqcet2bgmeidae1st46m7q9sr1p3@4ax.com>

Does it worth to make "object" keyword a reserved one?
I'd like to avoid oddities like this:

Python 2.3c1 (#44, Jul 18 2003, 14:32:36) [MSC v.1200 32 bit (Intel)]
on win32
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> class c(object): pass
...
>>> object = 4
>>> class c(object): pass
...
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
TypeError: int() takes at most 2 arguments (3 given)
>>>

Lawrence



From Kepes.Krisztian at peto.hu  Wed Jul  9 03:49:15 2003
From: Kepes.Krisztian at peto.hu (Krisztian Kepes)
Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 09:49:15 +0200
Subject: Python Global Constant
Message-ID: <sf0be85f.042@testmail.peto.hu>

Hi !

I want to create an module and I want to use some Global Constant in it.
How to I create an global constant in module what is accessable in from other modules ?

like this example:

*** module dirs ***
const Const_Up=1
const Const_Down=1

*** module any ***
import dirs;
def CheckDir(Dir):
  if Dir=dirs.Const_Up: xxx

?????

Thx:
 Chris









From peter at engcorp.com  Sun Jul 20 00:00:30 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 00:00:30 -0400
Subject: Strange (?) list comprehension behavior
References: <mailman.1058652030.22432.python-list@python.org> <3F1A138F.549D1D@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <3F1A13DE.1A7964AC@engcorp.com>

Peter Hansen wrote:
> 
> George Henry wrote:
[a question]
> 
> Please post the precise traceback, cut and pasted.  If it really said
> that, and your subsequent analysis is valid, I think one of your "ops"
> is not a string...

Cancel that... I didn't see your subsequent followup before I posted,
because it was not linked to the previous thread.  You already found
the problem... :-)

-Peter



From brian at sweetapp.com  Thu Jul 31 01:50:25 2003
From: brian at sweetapp.com (Brian Quinlan)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 22:50:25 -0700
Subject: Ver 2.3 install over 2.2?
In-Reply-To: <4c877253.0307301628.7d73a1a6@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <000001c35727$a3dbd4e0$21795418@dell1700>

> Make sure you have VC6 installed, else you'll be unable to build
> extensions for Python23. VC7 worked for building Python22 extensions,
but
> no longer (and if anyone can explain why, I'd love to know).
> 
>    error: Python was built with version 6 of Visual Studio, and
>    extensions need to be built with the same version of the
>    compiler, but it isn't installed.
> 
> I'm reinstalling 2.2.3 so I can keep developing with Reportlab until I
can
> get hold of VC6 or a fix for 2.3.

Actually, extensions built with VC7 never worked (with Python compiled
with VC6). Now you get a helpful error message instead of a crash.

The reason that these extensions don't work is that VC7 introduced
incompatibilities in the C runtime library. The layout for the FILE data
type has changed, for example, so extensions using the FILE returned by
PyFile_AsFile may crash. 

You could get lucky, of course, and have a set of extensions that never
use any unsafe routines.
 
Cheers,
Brian





From alanmk at hotmail.com  Sun Jul  6 15:02:12 2003
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Sun, 06 Jul 2003 20:02:12 +0100
Subject: absolute beginners question about API documentation
References: <be9nn3$2k0j3$1@ID-47851.news.dfncis.de> <be9pdo$2kjrj$1@ID-139865.news.dfncis.de> <be9qdk$2po93$1@ID-47851.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <3F087234.2AB40C2C@hotmail.com>

Markus Joschko wrote:

>>> Is there an API documentation like the javadoc API from java?

Dave Kuhlman wrote:

>> If you are asking about the *Python* API, then look here:
>>
>>     http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/typesmapping.html

Markus Joschko wrote:

> Thanks. That's it. I hadn't suspect it there.

And don't forget the interactive help available on most objects,
through the use of the dir() and help() functions, e.g.

Python 2.2.3 (#42, May 30 2003, 18:12:08) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on
win32
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> d = {}
>>> dir(d)
['__class__', '__cmp__', '__contains__', '__delattr__', '__delitem__',
'__doc__', '__eq__', '__ge__', '__getattribute__', '__getitem__',
'__gt__', '__hash__', '__init__', '__iter__', '__le__', '__len__',
'__lt__', '__ne__', '__new__', '__reduce__', '__repr__',
'__setattr__',
'__setitem__', '__str__', 'clear', 'copy', 'get', 'has_key', 'items',
'iteritems', 'iterkeys', 'itervalues', 'keys', 'popitem',
'setdefault',
'update', 'values']
>>> help(d.keys)
Help on built-in function keys:

keys(...)
    D.keys() -> list of D's keys

>>> help(d.has_key)
Help on built-in function has_key:

has_key(...)
    D.has_key(k) -> 1 if D has a key k, else 0

>>>

HTH,

-- 
alan kennedy
-----------------------------------------------------
check http headers here: http://xhaus.com/headers
email alan:              http://xhaus.com/mailto/alan



From scook at elp.rr.com  Fri Jul  4 11:49:07 2003
From: scook at elp.rr.com (Stan Cook)
Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 15:49:07 GMT
Subject: File information??
References: <OI8Na.58613$TJ.2869886@twister.austin.rr.com> <mailman.1057300149.8085.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <TlhNa.59370$TJ.2907016@twister.austin.rr.com>

Thanks.....That did it...  Just what I was looking for!

Stan
"Ian Bicking" <ianb at colorstudy.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.1057300149.8085.python-list at python.org...
> On Fri, 2003-07-04 at 00:59, Stan Cook wrote:
> > Is there a way to get the file size and modified date of a file?
>
> os.stat(filename).st_size and os.stat(filename).st_mtime
>
>   Ian
>
>
>





From gh at ghaering.de  Thu Jul 17 19:58:06 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 01:58:06 +0200
Subject: ps in windows
In-Reply-To: <3F1720EF.DCA2AD12@juno.com>
References: <3F1720EF.DCA2AD12@juno.com>
Message-ID: <3F17380E.8010006@ghaering.de>

Jeff Sandys wrote:
> Not really a Python question except I will use Python to write the
> script.
> 
> I have several Windows98SE PCs and a Linux PC on a home network.
> I want the Linux PC running a cron job to query the Windows PCs to find
> out what programs they are running.
> Any pointers on how to do this?

If I had this problem what I'd do is go to http://groups.google.com/ and 
search for the keywords "python win32 list processes" ;-)

-- Gerhard




From grundhan at cs.tu-berlin.de  Tue Jul 29 19:45:06 2003
From: grundhan at cs.tu-berlin.de (Hannes Grund)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 01:45:06 +0200
Subject: Problem passing COM objects from COM Server to ActiveX Control and back.
Message-ID: <MAEOJAHPEPMKFOGJBCMAAEBHDHAA.grundhan@cs.tu-berlin.de>

Dear all,

I'm currently developing an application that makes heavy use
of COM objects. I'm struggling with the following Problem:

In short the setup:
Machine: Win2000, python2.2, win32com extensions, wxPython
(The application is aimed to manage a molecule database,
 The COM objects being created via win32com.client.Dispatch(..))

The main actors within the problem:

- A server component that reads molecule data from a propitiery database,
  it is instanciated via win32com.client.Dispatch(PROGID),
  on demand it delivers "Molecule"-Objects which are itself COM objects,
  when returned back by the server these are outlined as <COMObject
<unknown>>
  (i.e. these are NOT build by win32com.client etc. they come out as the
result
  of a function call on the server component)

- An ActiveX Control (from the same vendor, same typelib) aimed to display
  molecules of the above type. This control is integrated in the wxPython
framework
  via the method MakeActiveXClass from "activexwrapper.py".

My problem:

  The control itself exposes a property where a molecule of the above type
  can be assigned (which is displayed then within the control).
  If the property is read afterwards, the molecule has become a
  <win32com.client.gen_py.....instance at ...> which seems to be OK so far.

 This instance can be processed without problems via python or even the
above
 server object. The problem arises when one tries to put this object again
 in the control (via the property, what initially worked). It simply to
refuses
 to show up again.

I guess there are happening many things on the interfaces when passing these
objects
from one component to the other, but I cannot finger out the crucial step.
Furthermore I don't know whether it is really the problem of pythoncom (in a
previous version of the above software suite everything worked well).

Although this seems to be a rather special kind of problem,
any help, hint or advise would be highly appreciated.

Hannes Grund





From exarkun at intarweb.us  Tue Jul 22 06:57:35 2003
From: exarkun at intarweb.us (Jp Calderone)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 06:57:35 -0400
Subject: Pause in a loop
In-Reply-To: <%W7Ta.10360$t92.299097@news1.tin.it>
References: <%W7Ta.10360$t92.299097@news1.tin.it>
Message-ID: <20030722105735.GA15769@intarweb.us>

On Tue, Jul 22, 2003 at 10:00:27AM +0000, manuel wrote:
> 
> I've two modules: main.py and eval.py
> 
> Eval.py is imported in main.py, but I've a loop
> in eval.py that must call a function in main.py...
> 
> I can't import main.py in eval.py too, because
> that would create an import loop.
> 
> But I'm thinking a different solution:
> a pause in a loop to return periodically an
> output. It's possible?
> 

  Generators, or "resumable functions" may be one possible solution for
this:

    from __future__ import generators  # Necessary until Python 2.3

    class MoreWorkToDo:
        pass

    class NearlyDone:
        pass

    def f1():
	for i in xrange(100):
            do_something_expensive_and_slow()
            yield MoreWorkToDo
        for i in xrange(10):
            cleanup_a_little()
            yield NearlyDone

    def f2():
        for x in f1():
            print str(x),

  Another possibility is to use a callback:

    class MoreWorkToDo:
        pass

    class NearlyDone:
        pass

    def f1(perLoop):
        for i in xrange(100):
            do_something_expensive_and_slow()
            perLoop(MoreWorkToDo)
        for i in xrange(10):
            cleanup_a_little()
            perLoop(NearlyDone)

    def cbFunc(v):
        print str(v),

    def f2():
        f1(cbFunc)

  Still another approach might create an iterator out of an explicit state
machine:

    class MoreWorkToDo:
        pass

    class NearlyDone:
        pass

    class Worker:
        def __iter__(self):
            return _WorkerIter()

    class _WorkerIter:
        def __init__(self):
            self.state = 'working'
            self.workCount = 100
            self.cleanCount = 10

        def next(self):
            return getattr(self, 'state_' + self.state)()

        def state_working(self):
            do_something_expensive_and_slow()
            self.workCount -= 1
            if self.workCount <= 0:
                self.state = 'cleanup'
            return MoreWorkToDo

        def state_cleanup(self):
            cleanup_a_little()
            self.cleanCount -= 1
            if self.cleanCount <= 0:
                raise StopIteration()
            return NearlyDone

    def f2():
        for x in Worker():
            print str(x),

  The iterator solution is very similar to the generator solution (in fact,
the generator also creates an iterator, just a different kind) but as you
can see is a bit more code.  The advantage is the iterator version may be
able to continue if an unexpected exception is raised in one of the calls to
`next', whereas the generator form will never be able to do so.  The
iterator version is also pickleable.

  Hope this helps,

  Jp
> 
> thanks,
> 
>           Manuel
> 
> 
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

-- 
"If you find a neighbor in need, you're responsible for serving that
neighbor in need, you're responsible for loving a neighbor just like you'd
like to love yourself." -- George W. Bush, Sept. 16, 2002




From sholden at holdenweb.com  Thu Jul 24 17:05:13 2003
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 21:05:13 GMT
Subject: [newbie] MySQL : How to check if no row returned?
References: <5ua0ivcl3loh45cq6pnoimsoa86nt0q4db@4ax.com> <mailman.1059075503.7037.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <dSXTa.71553$R92.59063@news2.central.cox.net>

"Skip Montanaro" <skip at pobox.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.1059075503.7037.python-list at python.org...
>
>     Jane> I browsed through the archives of this site, but I didn't see
how
>     Jane> to check if a SELECT through the MySql module returns an empty
set
>     Jane> (whether a row exists or not, the "else" part below is always
>     Jane> called).
>
> The return value of the cursor's execute method indicates how many rows
were
> selected:
>
>     >>> import MySQLdb
>     >>> conn = MySQLdb.Connection(...)
>     >>> curs = conn.cursor()
>     >>> print curs.execute("select * from cities where city like 'San %'")
>     51
>     >>> rows = curs.fetchall()
>     >>> print len(rows)
>     51
>

Alternatively, you can observer that the fetchall() method will return an
empty list, and use

    if not rows:
        # empty set returned

This is a bit more portable, which is maybe not important, but if you
planned to distribute your software to users with other database platforms,
not all DBI modules' execute() methods return the row count.

regards
--
Steve Holden                                  http://www.holdenweb.com/
Python Web Programming                 http://pydish.holdenweb.com/pwp/






From martin_a_clausen at hotmail.com  Tue Jul 22 21:37:26 2003
From: martin_a_clausen at hotmail.com (Mars)
Date: 22 Jul 2003 18:37:26 -0700
Subject: How does Mr. Martelli's Borg recipe work ?
Message-ID: <764b8294.0307221520.18017b09@posting.google.com>

I have looked long and hard at Mr. Martelli's Borg recipe:

http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/66531

It is a very useful substitute for a Singleton, but I can't figure out
how it works. _shared_state is never assigned any value, only
self.__dict__ is assigend self._shared_sate's value - or rather
(self.)_shared_state must be assigned a value at some point, otherwise
the code wouldn't work(right ?). I have gone through the code in the
debugger several(many) times, and inserted god knows how many print
statements, but without luck(or skill i guess).

Just so you don't waste your time, i do understand that _shared_state
is a class field(variable, or what not) and that its state is shared
by all instances.

Sorry if this question is banal, but I really need to understand this,
even if it means exposing my complete lack of understanding as far as
what is probaly basic Python knowledge.

Regards,

Martin



From spam at spam.com  Mon Jul  7 05:59:58 2003
From: spam at spam.com (Ton K.)
Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 11:59:58 +0200
Subject: bug in Tkinter? invalid literal for int() line 1035
In-Reply-To: <1057339224.48048.0@damia.uk.clara.net>
References: <newscache$6z3ihh$1ph$1@cache3.nc3a.nato.int> <mailman.1057326192.22017.python-list@python.org> <1057339224.48048.0@damia.uk.clara.net>
Message-ID: <newscache$qbfnhh$jxi$1@cache3.nc3a.nato.int>

Richard Townsend wrote:
> "Fredrik Lundh" <fredrik at pythonware.com> wrote in message
> news:mailman.1057326192.22017.python-list at python.org...
> 
>>Ton K. wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I get subject when binding <Button-1> to a listbox.
>>>The value for h is '??' which triggers the error.
>>>I'm running Python 2.2.2 from SuSE.
>>
>>you're using a version of Tk that's newer than your Tkinter; that "??"
>>you're seeing how really recent versions of Tk represent an "undefined
>>integer value"...
>>
>>this has been fixed in Python 2.3, so you can either upgrade Python
>>or link against an older Tk.
>>
>>(or modify Tkinter.py slightly, adding try/except clauses around the
>>problem spots in Tkinter.py)
>>
>></F>
>>
>>
> 
> If you are running SuSE 8.2 there is a fix on
> http://www.suse.de/en/private/download/updates/82_i386.html for this
> problem.
> 
> Look for the python-tk 2.2.2 link, dated 18 April 2003.

Update installed. Problem's gone.
Many thanks.
TK





From frank at chagford.com  Fri Jul 11 04:53:48 2003
From: frank at chagford.com (Frank Millman)
Date: 11 Jul 2003 01:53:48 -0700
Subject: Business model for Open Source - advice wanted
References: <246a4e07.0307100613.fc2fc50@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <246a4e07.0307110053.71b78d5a@posting.google.com>

Thanks to all for the replies. Much good advice and food for thought.
It seems that this is an idea worth pursuing. I will now keep a low
profile for a few more months to get the software to a stable state,
and then hopefully you will hear from me again.

Frank Millman



From jerf at jerf.org  Wed Jul  2 22:34:28 2003
From: jerf at jerf.org (Jeremy Bowers)
Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 02:34:28 GMT
Subject: When is unit-testing bad? [was: Re: does lack of type...]
References: <3EEE1210.3004AB45@engcorp.com> <878ys06tcv.fsf_-_@pobox.com> <vf11j7l3f0ku52@news.supernews.com> <87of0pno5s.fsf@titan.staselog.com> <vg40uajdqo3ac4@corp.supernews.com> <bdunoh$1pms$1@biggoron.nerim.net> <pan.2003.07.02.21.14.36.896580@jerf.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2003.07.02.22.34.21.9749@jerf.org>

On Thu, 03 Jul 2003 01:14:44 +0000, Jeremy Bowers wrote:

> On Wed, 02 Jul 2003 15:21:45 +0200, Aur?lien G?ron wrote:
>> In all those cases, I much prefer having a human being go out and do the
>> unit tests manually.
> 
> The thing is, they won't. We've got about 50 years of collective
> experience backing that up.

It occurs I can expand on this. What I'm doing right now at my job (as
opposed to the posting I'm replying to which is my hobby), I'm writing
unittests for an existing mod_perl-based application that is several years
old now. Been an adventure.

Part of the reason I'm doing this is we're safely past the point where we
can just poke and stab at the system and get any sort of coverage. We've
got a role-based system (a user can have several types of roles, and
technically, it's a permission-based system where roles are bundles of
permissions...), and of course any number of things the user can do. Add
up 10-ish roles, any number of actions (lets just call it 50 for
simplicity, though there's no real way good way to put a number on
"distinct actions in this system"), and a couple of other dimensions, and
you've got a lot to cover. Well, actually, it's not addition, it's
multiplication, so even in this rather simple case, you've got 10*50*8 or
something things to cover.

Each of these actions are relatively easy to characterize as unit tests
(well, in proper XP terms these would be acceptance tests, which is still
a step up for the existing system and while I hope to see true unit tests
someday, a whole lotta refactoring would have to happen first), but we've
recently been getting *hammered* with bugs that only occur on one or two
cells in that (easily) 4000-cell matrix. (Of course they're the .5% fringe
cases, important enough to actually occur but not important enough to bang
on in poke-and-grunt testing.) We had a bug that only occurred with Role A
in situation B in environment-type C. Unfortunately, while none of us
ever though to test that exact combination of settings, it was reasonably
common in the real world. Fully automated testing with absolutely no human
interaction needed during the testing is really, really important,
and I can't believe it took me this long to realize that. Not to mention
the rest of the industry.

On that topic, I'm starting to develop a multi-level unit testing
philosophy, since it seems like every program I've ever worked on ends up
with these multi-dimensional tests, and *yes* the equivalent of (1,4,2,4)
will sometimes fail, all by itself. Is there any official XP dogma on
that? Running a complete suite would take too long to be practical, so I'm
starting to get this image of defining a subset of tests for development
purposes (each axis, selected diagonals, smattering of others), and
running the full suite, say, overnight for full coverage... or even
constantly on a spare machine. Would make a great demo for 
tourists coming into the lab, with suitably verbose output, probably
impress customers too. ;-)



From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Jul 11 09:47:25 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 09:47:25 -0400
Subject: delete file
References: <2c6431ab.0307100711.780a65ad@posting.google.com> <mailman.1057851734.20147.python-list@python.org> <QugPa.26879$FN3.2233696@news.ono.com> <3F0D962E.23DA9F59@engcorp.com> <2c6431ab.0307110529.7a336f30@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3F0EBFED.BB283660@engcorp.com>

lamar_air wrote:
> 
> Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message news:<3F0D962E.23DA9F59 at engcorp.com>...
> > "Bartolom? Sintes Marco" wrote:
> > >
> > > I have a program that unzip some zip files. After unzipping them,
> > > I want to delete the zip files with os.remove, but I get this error:
> > > OSError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: ....
> >
> > Close the files properly after unzipping them, perhaps?  If that
> > doesn't help, please specify operating system, and give details
> > on how you are unzipping.  Is it using Python's zipfile module,
> > or some other method, and exactly how do you do it?
> 
> I want to be able to delete a file on my C: drive through my python
> script.  My script writes a file. So i want to delete the file if it
> already exists then write it.  What's the best way to do this?

Your question is still not clear, if it's the same as the original
question.  Please read http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
for assistance in formulating your questions a little better.

The simplest answer is that if *you* are creating the files, you
just open them with "w" mode (as in "f = open('filename', 'w')")
and it will automatically truncate the file if it already exists.

Hoping that helps,
-Peter



From bokr at oz.net  Sat Jul 12 15:41:54 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 12 Jul 2003 19:41:54 GMT
Subject: Help Support Python
References: <mailman.1057951098.31738.python-list@python.org> <3F0FE171.1090102@mxm.dk>
Message-ID: <bepoa2$12l$0@216.39.172.122>

On Sat, 12 Jul 2003 12:22:41 +0200, Max M <maxm at mxm.dk> wrote:

>Guido van Rossum wrote:
>
>> I'm pleased to announce that the Python Software Foundation (PSF) is now
>> accepting donations from individuals and companies interested in
>> supporting our mission to improve the Python programming language.
>
>
>It would be nice if there was some suggested amounts.
>
>Like:
>
>       $x.xx for a "one year Student Python subscription"
>      $xx.xx for a "one year private Python subscription"
>     $xxx.xx for a "one year company Python subscription"
>
I wonder how employers would react to being asked by employees to contribute
some percentage of (employee's estimate of time savings)*(employee pay rate)
when some free python resource results in such a savings.

Even if approvals are not forthcoming, with $-estimates presented the idea
may sink in that free software (and participation in a free software community)
is valuable ;-)

(It might be that a log of such incidents would have to be logged & accumulated
to get a number that was bigger than the company cost of processing approval
and cutting check (and the cost of keeping the log ;-), unless they establish
policy so it can be done cheaper).

Contributions could be informally classified, to give some indication of what
was $-valuable, e.g., "for cookbok recipe," or "for c.l.py support" or to
encourage specific development, e.g., "for distutils," or "for unittest" etc.

Of course. if someone wants to pay for entertainment value received,
that's fine too ;-)

>Etc. That could make it easier to decide what amount to donate. To me at 
>least.
>
>Anyhoo, I plunked in some $ and hope others will too. It's a great 
>language that has made my workday a lot more fun.
>
True. But money isn't everything. I think it must be recognized that the bulk
of contributions to free software in general is still <volunteer time>*<some level of pay
that isn't being paid>, even though increasingly organizations are recognizing
that free software is a process they can benefit from, and most if they contribute.
So it is recognized that some level of <emloyee time>*<actual pay rate> can be justified.

But it is a social interaction. Being the only cook and provider at a pot luck
is not a very good pot luck, but if most contribute, it can be great. If professional
chefs volunteer or are paid to contribute, all the better. And digital
pot lucks are magic, since eating doesn't use up what's on the table!! ... unless someone
can limit the table access artificially, like with patents and copyrights etc. ;-/

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From nirina at mail.blueline.mg  Mon Jul 21 00:44:16 2003
From: nirina at mail.blueline.mg (Raseliarison nirinA)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 07:44:16 +0300
Subject: If stereo WAV file's both channels are identical, change format to mono for all files recursively
References: <mailman.1058605289.13944.python-list@python.org> <3F1A0C2D.6DBFAB2B@mega-nerd.com>
Message-ID: <007201c34f43$6b3f0080$f3a2383e@raseliar>

"Erik de Castro Lopo" wrote:
> 
> Just in case you don't know, there is a Python wrapper
> to my own libsndfile ( http://www.zip.com.au/~erikd/libsndfile )
> being developed here:
> 
>     http://www.arcsin.org/archive/20030520025359.shtml
> 
> libsndfile handles a large number of different file types
> (AU, AIFF, WAV and many more) as well as many encodings
> (8, 16, 24, and 32 bit integer PCM, 23 and 64 bit float 
> PCM, A-law, u-law, MS ADPCM, IMA ADPCM, G721, G723 and
> so on).
> 
> Erik

many thanks for the links.
i will have a look at it

-
nirinA

> -- 
> +-----------------------------------------------------------+
>   Erik de Castro Lopo  nospam at mega-nerd.com (Yes it's valid)
> +-----------------------------------------------------------+
> "In civilian equipment, such as computers, the number
> of components alone makes miniaturization essential if
> the computer is to be housed in a reasonable-sized
> building." Electronics Oct. 1, 1957, p. 178
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list






From intentionally at blank.co.uk  Mon Jul 14 19:35:46 2003
From: intentionally at blank.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 00:35:46 +0100
Subject: anything like C++ references?
References: <000301c348c7$3c501980$21795418@dell1700> <sag3hv4vf884ed7ouu5cv8ofnopp9j1t12@4ax.com> <bet1sd$ibl$1@panix3.panix.com> <sfa4hvkq1j7rg1iga5j3tk2cc4qpr6e5qk@4ax.com> <beueis$b1d$1@panix3.panix.com> <78c6hvgu599ku5denkkl7pgmd4n13t460i@4ax.com> <roy-204535.19175914072003@reader1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <aqe6hvgos16fphscbqbt633nhvur9vooet@4ax.com>

On Mon, 14 Jul 2003 19:17:59 -0400, Roy Smith <roy at panix.com> wrote:

>Stephen Horne <intentionally at blank.co.uk> wrote:
>> Ah - but this is also Pythons fault. It has arbitrarily redefined the
>> meaning of a mathematics operator - presumably simply because C, C++,
>> Java, Basic and others have done this in the past.
>> [...]
>> Personally, though, I'd go with Pascal on this one.
>
>Most languages have two "equals" operators, one means assignment, the 
>other means test for equality.  Depending on the language, these are 
>spelled "=" and "==" or ":=" and "=" (or a few other variations).

That's why I referred to Pascal.

>The wierd thing is that I don't think either one really matches what a 
>mathematician means when he writes "=".  In math, "=" is neither an 
>assignment or a test: it's an assertion.

99 out of 100 times, true. But not always - especially in discrete
maths.

For example, if I write...

  [forall] x . f(x) = y

It's hard to interpret that '=' as an assertion. Similar applies to a
range of maths operators.

Basically, the way I rationalise it is that when I see what looks like
a boolean expression standing on its own, I take it as an assertion
that that expression evaluates to true. I'm not saying that has any
mathematical validity, but it does seem to cover all cases.

So if I see...

  x = 1

I take it as an assertion that the boolean test 'x = 1' evaluates to
true, and from that I can infer the value bound to x (or, in other
cases, infer some properties of that value).

Or rather I don't - but that's the rationalisation for what I do do.




From gmduncan at netspace.net.au  Mon Jul  7 03:56:50 2003
From: gmduncan at netspace.net.au (gmduncan)
Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 17:56:50 +1000
Subject: Python Gurus; "Legend in their own Lunchtime"?
Message-ID: <3F0927C2.4000604@netspace.net.au>

UK "Private Eye" readers will wink at this.

I've been  flicking thru Alex Martelli's "Python In a Nutshell"
and have been  impressed by the authoritive tone , and scope of
its contents.

An impressive production from a technical point of view, even tho
I doubt that anyone could have created it all without help.

But am I the only one to feel discomforted by the many Olympian 
(questionable) judgements he scatters through the code, about
every aspect of software development ? A better editor needed ...

I also wonder why he never saw fit to mention under "Books and 
Magazines", Graysons book "Python and TKinter Programming".

Martelli needs to say why. Alex - are you there ?

- Gary (irritated)








From db3l at fitlinxx.com  Thu Jul 17 18:33:22 2003
From: db3l at fitlinxx.com (David Bolen)
Date: 17 Jul 2003 18:33:22 -0400
Subject: hex to signed integer
References: <vhbq0kr6ftvr0e@corp.supernews.com> <9j6chvoep7k34fbqutvp364lghnmmohrsj@4ax.com> <vhdkrnq3ucf2ad@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <u1xwou6kt.fsf@fitlinxx.com>

Tom Goulet <tomg at em.ca> writes:

> Tim Roberts wrote:
> > Tom Goulet <tomg at em.ca> wrote:
>  
> >>I want to convert a string of hexadecimal characters to the signed
> >>integer they would have been before the <print> statement converted
> >>them.  How do I do this in such a way that is compatible with Python
> >>versions 1.5.2 through 2.4, and not machine-dependent?
> 
> >   if hexbit[0] < '8':
> >     temp = int(hexbit,16)
> >   else:
> >     temp = int(long(hexbit,16)-2**32)
> 
> The <int> function takes only one argument in Python 1.5.2.

Yes, the base argument was added in later around Python 2.0.

An equivalent operation to int(value,base) in Python 1.5.2 and any of
the later versions (at least through 2.3 - 2.4 doesn't exist yet)
would be the string.atoi(value,base) function.

However, as indicated by the above code, both int() and string.atoi()
limit their result to a signed integer, so depending on the
hexadecimal string it might overflow and result in an exception.  So
for any sized hexadecimal string, use string.atol(value,base) instead.

For example:

    Python 2.2.3 (#42, May 30 2003, 18:12:08) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
    Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
    >>> import string
    >>> print string.atoi('20',16)
    32
    >>> print string.atoi('FFFFFFFF',16)
    Traceback (most recent call last):
      File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
      File "c:\Python\2.2\lib\string.py", line 225, in atoi
        return _int(s, base)
    ValueError: int() literal too large: FFFFFFFF
    >>> print string.atol('FFFFFFFF',16)
    4294967295
    >>> print string.atol('%08X' % -1,16)
    4294967295
    >>> 

One note - if you end up converting the result of string.atol() with
str(), under Python 1.5.2 it will have a trailing "L" but will not
have that under any later Python release.  Converting it to a string
with repr() will have the trailing "L" under all Python releases.

-- David



From owner-mutt-announce at mutt.org  Tue Jul  8 23:54:41 2003
From: owner-mutt-announce at mutt.org (owner-mutt-announce at mutt.org)
Date: 9 Jul 2003 03:54:41 -0000
Subject: mutt-announce@mutt.org: Non-member submission from <python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <20030709035441.15812.qmail@ns.gbnet.net>


Your submission to the list has been forwarded to the list
owner <owner-mutt-announce at mutt.org> for approval because you do not seem to be on 
that list.

If you want to join the list, send email to <Majordomo at mutt.org>, with
"subscribe mutt-announce" in the message text (not the subject).





From kj at ockey.fake.  Mon Jul 21 05:15:26 2003
From: kj at ockey.fake. (kjockey)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 09:15:26 GMT
Subject: pythonic malloc
Message-ID: <OaOSa.6965$OM3.854@news-server.bigpond.net.au>

I have some simple UDP code that does:
s.sendto("\xf0\x00\x02\x00rachel\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00",addr)

This is OK, except that I'd like to change the text in the middle ("rachel",
which is the hostname FWIW), and the NUL padding needs to go out to make
the length 25 bytes (so the padding depends on the length of the name).

So I could do something like:
retpacket = "\xf0\x00\x02\x00"+socket.gethostname()
while len(retpacket) < 26:
     retpacket += "\x00"
s.sendto(retpacket, addr)

But that feels "wrong". And Python in a Nutshell says its a bad idea  -
"anti-idiom".

Can anyone show me the true path?

Brad



From abelikov72 at hotmail.com  Fri Jul 11 20:51:33 2003
From: abelikov72 at hotmail.com (Afanasiy)
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 00:51:33 GMT
Subject: How to get all IP addresses in python?
References: <belfv0$bqp4$1@netnews.upenn.edu> <6cd58b6.0307110715.1bb9bc23@posting.google.com> <ben0vb$cl8r$1@netnews.upenn.edu>
Message-ID: <komugvsb0oil30kftm8i5hg5grpqliuhna@4ax.com>

On Fri, 11 Jul 2003 14:50:00 -0400, "Yun Mao"
<maoy_REMOVE_IF_NOT_SPAM at cis.upenn.edu> wrote:

>Sorry, this still doesn't work very well on my machine.
>
>>>> print socket.getaddrinfo(socket.gethostname(), None)
>[(2, 1, 6, '', ('127.0.0.1', 0)), (2, 2, 17, '', ('127.0.0.1', 0)), (2, 3,
>0, '', ('127.0.0.1', 0))]
>>>>
>
>Any ideas? Thanks!

FYI, It works perfectly on my Windows 2000 machine.

... import socket
... print socket.getaddrinfo(socket.gethostname(), None)
[(2, 0, 0, '', ('124.181.217.203', 0)), (2, 0, 0, '', ('169.254.25.142',
0)), (2, 0, 0, '', ('169.254.218.201', 0))]
...

Good to know too!



From mis6 at pitt.edu  Tue Jul 29 13:40:56 2003
From: mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato)
Date: 29 Jul 2003 10:40:56 -0700
Subject: feature request: a better str.endswith
References: <2259b0e2.0307180401.5dae02f2@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <2259b0e2.0307290940.49ff417d@posting.google.com>

I have posted a recipe with the itertools solution suggested in this
thread:

http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/212959

Thanks to everybody who gave feedback!


              Michele



From bkc at Murkworks.com  Fri Jul 11 17:23:14 2003
From: bkc at Murkworks.com (Brad Clements)
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 17:23:14 -0400
Subject: object instance data to docbook, xml, pdf, etc?
References: <xqxvfua6zmr.fsf@cola2.ca.boeing.com> <lchD/kKkXYHM092yn@gnosis.cx>
Message-ID: <ben9qh$q99$1@main.gmane.org>

_
"David Mertz, Ph.D." <mertz at gnosis.cx> wrote in message
news:lchD/kKkXYHM092yn at gnosis.cx...
> Harry George <harry.g.george at boeing.com> wrote previously:
> |We are outputting the instance data, sort of like Gnosis xml_objectify,
> |but to docbook DTD.
>
> You *could* use XSLT to transform the gnosis.xml.pickle output into
> DocBook (I'm pretty sure you mean that, objectify goes in the other
> direction generic-XML -> python).
>
> However, I personally find XSLT extremely awkward.  If someone doesn't
> give you the done-deal, you might find it useful to take
> gnosis.xml.pickle and fork it for your desired DocBook/XML output.  All
> the issues about traversing objects is handled, you should pretty much
> be able to just look for the XML tags that get written, and substitute
> those as needed.


He could modify the xml.pickle code this way, but what if his requirements
change in 5 months?

I think it's better just to dump the pickle and bite the bullet on xslt
sheets for conversion.

I use gnosis.xml.pickle's xml output to load dynamic tables in IE
(client-side stylesheets convert to html on the fly) and I use a different
sheet to generate PDFs with FOP.  Oh, and last week I find I also have to
output data into Excel compatible form. I haven't decided if I'll write out
a CSV. Either directly from the Python objects, or using XSLT to convert the
gnosis.xml.pickle output or write to "native Office 2003 XML format".

XML can be a pita, but it has paid off for me anyway.











From irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl  Mon Jul  7 13:50:11 2003
From: irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 19:50:11 +0200
Subject: Apache mod_python and Sessions
In-Reply-To: <20030707091923.1f12f872.scpusenet@werbung.schabi.de>
References: <20030704131617.4b1a73ca.scpusenet@werbung.schabi.de> <20030707091923.1f12f872.scpusenet@werbung.schabi.de>
Message-ID: <3f09b2cf$0$49098$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

Markus Schaber wrote:
> python_weblib that does what I need (Additionally, my boss suggested
> that we should not use mod_python but CGI instead.)

What!? Why!?
Any sane explanation why you should go with slow, outdated CGI scripts
instead of the nice, fast web server integration of mod_python?

--Irmen




From a.schmolck at gmx.net  Thu Jul  3 17:02:01 2003
From: a.schmolck at gmx.net (Alexander Schmolck)
Date: 03 Jul 2003 22:02:01 +0100
Subject: Emacs + py-mode + tkinter problem
References: <WCWMa.18$Ha.16@nwrdny02.gnilink.net> <be1ejn$5qov$1@ID-63505.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <yfs8yrfiat2.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk>

Thomas G?ttler <guettler at thomas-guettler.de> writes:

> Tom Locke wrote:
> 
> > Hi All,
> > 
> > I'm having trouble with the python shell within emacs. It's hanging when I
> > use tkinter. Setup is:
> > 
> > Windows XP
> > emacs 21.3
> > py-mode 4.6
> > 
> > Recipe:
> > From a python-mode buffer, launch the python shell (C-c !), then in the
> > shell
> 
> Sorry, I don't know an answer since I only start
> the interactive prompt from a terminal. Since I am quite happy
> I would like to konw why you want the python interpreter in emacs?
> 

While I can't speak for the OP, how about:

- uhm, how do you get code into your interactive session? In python mode you
  can run selected code on a keypress (even if its indentation doesn't start
  at 0), whereas last time I looked, cut and pasting of multiline code didn't
  work *at all* for a stand-alone python shell (because the interactive python
  shell insists on extra newlines after statements)

- debugger integration like automatically landing in the offending source code
  on exceptions and being able to walk through the code corresponding to the
  traceback (try C-c -)

- to use a real editor, not just for editing code but in the interactive
  session, too (instead of the crippled readline interface). Ever tried
  comint-previous-matching-input-from-input on M-p? Better than cursor-up, no?
  Isearching your output can also be quite useful (and M-z etc. also happen to
  work, because you're using emacs, not something that feels a bit like it).

Maybe too many people are happy with too little (essentially
edit/run-whole-program/debug cycles a la C, plus maybe using python
interactively as a calculator or to look up documenation). If I had time I'd
write a tutorial on using ipython from within emacs for (I think) much more
effective interactive development. As it is I still haven't found the time for
a reply to a post by David Abrahams on the topic.

'as




From dave at nullcube.com  Thu Jul 31 22:24:39 2003
From: dave at nullcube.com (Dave Harrison)
Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2003 12:24:39 +1000
Subject: setuid and current paths
Message-ID: <20030801022439.GA17699@dave@alana.ucc.usyd.edu.au>

hi all,

Im using the setuid-prog.c script to setuid my cgi script.
The C script is chowned to "myuser" (not root, I dont need root access
just the access myuser has).

However when I do this, the path it executes the script from is not
the same dir as the cgi itself.

My CGI script uses a dir structure within its own dir, but when
I execute it from another dir (via the setuid script) Im not
in that dir natively.

Ive tried chdir without success, and chroot runs me into a permissions
problem.

Anyone want to tell me how I _should_ be doing this ?




From guettler at thomas-guettler.de  Tue Jul  8 06:47:20 2003
From: guettler at thomas-guettler.de (Thomas =?ISO-8859-15?Q?G=FCttler?=)
Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 12:47:20 +0200
Subject: start script automatically
References: <bee2dg$8q3$1@news.uni-kl.de>
Message-ID: <bee7fo$42jfi$1@ID-63505.news.dfncis.de>

Tom wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> I have a problem because I don't know how to start my script
> automatically after a special event happens.
> 
> In detail: I store data from a PLC. Every 30 seconds the data is stored
> in a new file. After the file is stored I would like to start my script
> that analyzes the data right away. Any help how to do this is deeply
> appreciated.

Hi,

I don't know what PLC is, but why not use an endless loop.
Files arrive in a directory called "input" and after processing
you move them to a directory called "done".

(not tested)
while 1:
    for file in os.listdir("input"):
        process(file)
        os.rename(os.path.join("input", file), os.path.join("done", file))
 
 thomas




From Juha.Autero at iki.fi  Wed Jul 16 08:36:23 2003
From: Juha.Autero at iki.fi (Juha Autero)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 15:36:23 +0300
Subject: Waiting for processes to finish under Solaris
References: <3F144AB2.10703@dadsetan.com> <donn-080615.11130115072003@nntp1.u.washington.edu>
 <3F145C82.6010606@dadsetan.com>
Message-ID: <87y8yyeji0.fsf@jautero.no-ip.org>

Behrang Dadsetan <ben at dadsetan.com> writes:


> It is also a very underdocumented feature.. :)) signal.SIG_DFL (0) is
> documented as """SIG_DFL
> This is one of two standard signal handling options; it will simply
> perform the default function for the signal. For example, on most
> systems the default action for SIGQUIT is to dump core and exit, while
> the default action for SIGCLD is to simply ignore it. """
> Hopefully it will NOT SIGQUIT it...

You are reading wrong documentation. signal.SIG_DFL is a constant for
handler parameter of signal.signal. Signal constants are defined
as SIG* without underscore.

Except of course 0, because it is not a signal. From Linux kill(2) man
page:

       int kill(pid_t pid, int sig);
...
       If sig is 0, then no signal is sent, but error checking is
       still performed.

Since os.kill will eventually call kill(2) system call, it works the
same way.

-- 
Juha Autero
http://www.iki.fi/jautero/
Eschew obscurity!





From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Jul  4 14:10:40 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 14:10:40 -0400
Subject: Python is a gem, you need to keep pushing it ....
References: <mailman.1057327627.5127.python-list@python.org> <3F05C138.687F5A06@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <3F05C320.BF195230@engcorp.com>

Peter Hansen wrote:
> 
> sismex01 at hebmex.com wrote:
> >
> > > From: Peter Hansen [mailto:peter at engcorp.com]
> > > Sent: Viernes, 04 de Julio de 2003 07:42 a.m.
> > >
> > > delphiro wrote:
> > > >
> > > [attribution removed... don't do that!]
> > > > > Python *is* great but lets not pretend that its a good
> > > > > fit for every problem.
> > > >
> > > > I doubt that (unless you develop hardware drivers).
> > >
> > > Are you saying that you think Python _is_ a good fit
> > > for every problem, excluding only hardware drivers?
> > >
> > > -Peter
> > >
> >
> > Seems like he is; in my experience Python has been flexible
> > enough to fit any problem I've tossed at it.
> 
> As it has for me, but neither you nor I have thrown *every*
> problem at it, and the OP appears to be stating that he believes
> we would never find Python inadequate, no matter what we threw
> at it (exception hardware drivers again).
> 
> As an example, one could argue that embedded systems are not
> merely "hardware drivers" (one could also argue that they are,
> but I do not), yet we've found Python suitable in only one
> of our embedded system products.

Thus contradicting myself, of course. :-)  What I meant to say
was "I know what you mean, since I've found it highly suitable
as well, but no one with good experience in computing could 
reasonably claim it will fit *all* problems except hardware drivers."

-Peter



From inigoserna at terra.es  Sun Jul 13 16:13:33 2003
From: inigoserna at terra.es (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?I=F1igo?= Serna)
Date: 13 Jul 2003 22:13:33 +0200
Subject: command prompt change dir
In-Reply-To: <200307110928.02474.mfranklin1@gatwick.westerngeco.slb.com>
References: <belm3i$22ek$1@news.cybercity.dk>
	 <200307110928.02474.mfranklin1@gatwick.westerngeco.slb.com>
Message-ID: <1058127212.10014.23.camel@inigo.katxi.org>

Hello,

I think this is the solution midnight commander uses.

In lfm [1], I use something similar: I've created next shell function in
/etc/bashrc:

lfm ()
{
    /usr/bin/lfm $*;
    LFMPATHFILE=/tmp/lfm-$$.path;
    cd "`cat $LFMPATHFILE`";
    rm -f -f $LFMPATHFILE
}

Before exit, the program writes the directory into a temporal file
/tmp/lfm-pid.path, where pid is the process id of lfm, then change the
directory.

I hope this helps,
I?igo

[1] http://www.terra.es/personal9/inigoserna/lfm


El vie, 11-07-2003 a las 10:28, Martin Franklin escribi?:
> On Friday 11 July 2003 07:39, Peter Vestergaard wrote:
> > Hi
> > Probably a simple question but I have not been able to find out how:
> > I want my python script to generate a path based on some simple lookups and
> > then change my path so that when the script exits my command prompt (from
> > which I launched the script) is standing at this path. The path already
> > exists.
> > I have tried chdir(path), system('cd '+path) and many others but none
> > changes my actual path.
> > Hope anyone can help
> > Regards, Peter Vestergaard
> 
> I don't think it is possible to change the path of the calling program (in 
> this case the command prompt you use to start the python script....)
> However you could use a shell trick to kind of do what you want:-
> 
> 
> #!/usr/local/bin/python
> # ChangePath script
> # invoke from command line like so:
> # cd `ChangePath.py`
> #
> 
> # simple lookup...
> path = "/usr/oracle/"
> print path
> 
> 
> Invoke the above from your command line (xterm or whatever...)
> 
> cd `ChangePath.py`
> 
> I have only tested this on Linux + bash and I would guess this would not work 
> on Windows...
> 
> 
> Regards
> Martin

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From carsten at gehling.dk  Wed Jul 16 10:54:09 2003
From: carsten at gehling.dk (Carsten Gehling)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 16:54:09 +0200
Subject: SV: Choosing the right framework
In-Reply-To: <20030716143322.11957.qmail@green.zadka.com>
Message-ID: <BHEFKIOIMEDGILGDACKDCEIIDMAA.carsten@gehling.dk>

> Fra: python-list-admin at python.org
> [mailto:python-list-admin at python.org]P? vegne af Moshe Zadka
> Sendt: 16. juli 2003 16:33

> Why, did Apache's reverse proxy module stop working suddenly?

Sorry - you're right :-) In fact this is also the way I would configure
Zope.

> Note, however, that Twisted is *not* a web framework. It has a web
> server, but writing in that raw is much like writing raw mod_python
> code -- it's often useful, but most of the time, it is the wrong
> level of abstraction. Twisted's "official" templating system is
> Woven. However, Twisted also works with Quixote and it is quite possible
> to adapt other frameworks to it. And lest I forget, webtk[0]
> also runs on top of Twisted.

Ahh, now I didn't know this - YAFTR (Yet Another Framework To Research....)

> It, is, however, still strange to me why you rejected Plone so carelessly
> as it *is*, actually, a CMS. Maybe you had good reasons too -- but until
> you explain those reasons, it will be hard to guess whether they apply
> to other web frameworks.

This may be due to pure lazyness. I looked at Plone for 3 days, and still
didn't "grasp it". Add to this a heavy burden of work.

I may be ignorant of major Plone issues, but here are my main "grudges"
against it (please bear in mind that I haven't researched Plone for more
than 3 days, and some of my arguments may look plain stupid ;-) :

<grudge>
1) I don't the idea, that the user authentication (login form) to managing
the content of the website is visible on the website's pages.

2) I want the content management interface to be similar to the one I
currently use in my own CMS. (One frame with a tree structure of the page
hierarki, one frame with the page displayed, and content editing forms as
popup windows).
</grudge>

- Carsten





From hat at se-46.wpa.wtb.tue.nl  Tue Jul  1 03:55:01 2003
From: hat at se-46.wpa.wtb.tue.nl (Albert Hofkamp)
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 07:55:01 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: I have a list...
References: <20030701113915.226ae9bd.agg@astranet.ru>
Message-ID: <slrnbg2fil.13h.hat@se-46.wpa.wtb.tue.nl>

On Tue, 1 Jul 2003 11:39:15 +0400, Damir Hakimov <agg at astranet.ru> wrote:
> Hi, All!
> 
> say, i have a function:
> 
> def f(*b):
>   print b
>   return
> 
> then i do:
> f(3,4,5)
> (3, 4, 5)
> 
> but i have list f=(3,4,5)
> f(l)
> ((3, 4, 5),)    
> 
> how can i call f function to result
> f(???(b))
> (3, 4, 5)

You mean apply(f,(3,4,5)) ?


Albert
-- 
Unlike popular belief, the .doc format is not an open publically available format.



From chatralias at aol.com  Sun Jul 20 11:31:52 2003
From: chatralias at aol.com (Chatralias)
Date: 20 Jul 2003 15:31:52 GMT
Subject: Newbie Questions?
References: <504413fa.0307200626.3fceb85a@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20030720113152.09823.00000323@mb-m11.aol.com>

>Hail all. Are newbie questions allowed here, or is there a different
>Newsgroup for that? Thanks.
>

The answer is yes and yes.

A great place to check out is here.
(Taken directly from the Newbies page at python.org without permission - It's
almost like living on the edge.)

tutor at python.org 
A low-volume mailing list for folks who want to ask questions regarding how to
learn computer programming with the Python language. See
http://www.python.org/psa/MailingLists.html#tutor for more info. 

Ray 
Rastm2 at aol.com = AOL.COM =yeah go ahead and laugh.




From donald_rivard at hotmail.com  Wed Jul 23 15:10:37 2003
From: donald_rivard at hotmail.com (Don Rivard)
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 15:10:37 -0400
Subject: zope  ZMySQLDA
Message-ID: <rZmdnVc4WPWOQIOiRTvUrg@net1plus.com>

zope 2.71b
ZMySQLDA 2.08
MySQL-python-0.9.2
mysql 3.23.55NT

When I attempt to connect, by creating a Add Z MySQL Database Connection, I
set the connection string
to database user password, and i keep getting the following error
Site Error
An error was encountered while publishing this resource.

Error Type: AttributeError
Error Value: server_capabilities




Any ideas why?



Don Rivard





From bokr at oz.net  Tue Jul 22 12:27:02 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 22 Jul 2003 16:27:02 GMT
Subject: feature request: a better str.endswith
References: <2259b0e2.0307180401.5dae02f2@posting.google.com> <mailman.1058530829.7072.python-list@python.org> <3f17f883$0$49107$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl> <2259b0e2.0307190529.57338b3f@posting.google.com> <NpkSa.16049$7O.14695@nwrdny01.gnilink.net> <2259b0e2.0307200721.16ef2ea1@posting.google.com> <45228044.0307210522.1ef95144@posting.google.com> <2259b0e2.0307210918.614892ba@posting.google.com> <bfi4ir$t21$0@216.39.172.122> <Xns93C060AFACE6Cduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <bfjokm$kbc$0@216.39.172.122>

On Tue, 22 Jul 2003 08:34:13 +0000 (UTC), Duncan Booth <duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk> wrote:

>bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) wrote in news:bfi4ir$t21$0 at 216.39.172.122:
>
>> I guess the full set of functions might be
>> any_true, any_false, all_true, and all_false.
>> 
>> or maybe someone can think of better short phrase?
>> 
>
>'all_false(...)' is simply 'not any_true(...)'
>'any_false(...)' is 'not all_true(...)'
>
>So you could get by with just two of these functions, in which case 
>'any_of', and 'all_of' might be suitable names.
>
I don't think they're equivalent if they do short-circuiting.

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From tomas at fancy.org  Mon Jul 14 19:15:08 2003
From: tomas at fancy.org (Tom Plunket)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 16:15:08 -0700
Subject: anything like C++ references?
References: <000301c348c7$3c501980$21795418@dell1700> <jf22hvotj4n0q5tpkg627e3jv61norf93n@4ax.com> <3F11106A.65FDA8F2@alcyone.com> <iqm2hvs77lhe1m71v9b579070khbf0uv0a@4ax.com> <berqqd$ad5$1@panix3.panix.com> <brs2hv8edfv0d1fch9mha8otuulajnkh0g@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <8vd6hv0sdvoitccmnj4pdj66ss2vg4ii3n@4ax.com>

Stephen Horne wrote:

> All you have proven is that it is the distinction between types 
> that get re-bound and those that don't (rather than the use of 
> references) that is unnecessarily confusing and error prone.

As the firestarter (I apologize for the flames that have
erupted), I must admit that even I know that this distinction
does not exist in Python.  There aren't some types that get
rebound and others that don't.

def fn(arg):
   local = SOME_GLOBAL
   local = arg

local gets rebound to arg regardless of what the types involved
are, period.

> The wart remains, even if my description was wrong. And even that 
> is a dubious claim.

I still feel that there's a wart of some sort, but it's not due
to any inconsistency in the language, despite what I may have
said before (I've been thinking about it a lot over the past few
days).

> A Python user is interested in how an object behaves - not how it 
> is internally implemented in the interpreter. Immutable objects 
> don't behave as references - the internal use of references for 
> immutable objects is basically a lazy copying optimisation and, 
> apart from performace and a couple of other technicalities (e.g. 
> the 'is' operator), has no relevance.

Are they really technicalities, though?  I mean, a mutable object
can be changed.  It's the same object, just changed.  Immutable
objects, however, can't be changed.  You can get something that
appears like changing it, but it's actually building a new thing
and binding the label to that new thing.

What I specifically want is a way to have a "second-level
binding", e.g. a reference to a reference (assuming that the
terminology is correct by saying that all Python variables are
references).  This is where I see the hole in Python, that there
actually is a class of object that is different from everything
else; you can bind to anything at all in the language...except
references.

-tom!



From hwlgw at hotmail.com  Wed Jul  2 13:01:58 2003
From: hwlgw at hotmail.com (Will Stuyvesant)
Date: 2 Jul 2003 10:01:58 -0700
Subject: XML Validation with Python
Message-ID: <cb035744.0307020901.472c3573@posting.google.com>

Can you give a commandline example how to do XML Validation (checking
against a DTD) with Python?  Not with 4Suite or other 3rd party
libraries, just the Python standard distribution.  I have Python 2.2
but can upgrade to 2.3 beta if needed.

I am looking for something like:

"
$ python validate.py myxmlfile.xml mydtd.dtd
"

where validate.py contains something like:

"
import somexmllib
import sys

# prints 1 if Okay :-)
print somexmllib.validate(sys.argv[1], sys.argv[2])
"

I am sorry if this is a FAQ or if it is in one of the xml libraries, I
just could not figure it out!



From alanmk at hotmail.com  Fri Jul  4 11:13:13 2003
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 16:13:13 +0100
Subject: Help with xml.parsers.expat please?
References: <cb035744.0307040410.12003774@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3F059989.FFBD6E67@hotmail.com>

Will Stuyvesant wrote:

> There seems to be no XML parser that can do validation in
> the Python Standard Libraries.  And I am stuck with Python
> 2.1.1. until my web master upgrades (I use Python for
> CGI).  I know pyXML has validating parsers, but I can not
> compile things on the (unix) webserver.  And even if I
> could, the compiler I have access to would be different
> than what was used to compile python for CGI.

So it didn't work out with xmlproc? Isn't xmlproc a pure python
parser that you should be able to drop in and run without
compiling anything?

> I need to write a CGI script that does XML validation (and
> then later also does other things).  It does not have to
> be complete standards compliant validation but at least it
> should check if elements are declared and allowed in
> special places in the XML tree.

I think you would be much more likely to get constructive help
if you posted some examples of the tree structures and data
that you're processing.

> I tried to understand SAX and DOM but I gave up, and
> effbot advises to avoid them anyway.  So I am studying
> xml.parsers.expat now, but I am stuck.

SAX and DOM aren't solutions, they're tools. They are simply 
different ways to accessing the contents of an XML document.
They may or may not be suitable for your problem, depending
on a wide variety of considerations.

I think the problem needs to be clearly defined before an
appropriate solution can be reached.

> The program below *does* print information about DOCTYPE
> declarations but nothing about the element definitions in
> the DTD.  I feed it an XML file with a DOCTYPE declaration
> like <!DOCTYPE ROOTTAG SYSTEM "MYDTD.DTD"> and the DTD is
> in the same directory.  I also tried inputting the DTD
> itself to this program but that doesn't work either
> (ExpatError: syntaxerror at the first element definition).
> 
> Please help if you can.
> 
> # file: minimal_validate.py
> #
> import xml.parsers.expat
> 
> def element_decl_handler(name, model):
>     print 'ELEMENT definition: ', name, ' model: ', model
> 
> def doctype_decl_handler(doctypeName, systemId, publicId, has_internal_subset):
>     print 'DOCTYPE declaration: '
>     print '    doctypeName: ', doctypeName
>     print '    systemId: ', systemId
>     print '    publicId:', publicId
>     print '    internal subset:', has_internal_subset
> 
> p = xml.parsers.expat.ParserCreate()
> 
> p.ElementDeclHandler = element_decl_handler
> p.StartDoctypeDeclHandler = doctype_decl_handler
> 
> import sys
> input = file(sys.argv[1]).read()
> p.Parse(input)

I think you need to do some reading on what SAX does. In summary, it
gives you the pieces of an XML document, in a series of function
callbacks. You've got to do something with the pieces that you're
given.
SAX won't solve your problem any more than anything else unless you
know what pieces you are receiving, and are doing something with them.

One memory efficient way of building up a document in memory is to
create a python object to represent every element, and with each
"element object" being a (python) attribute of its parent. It's a lot
easier than it sounds, and can be read about here

http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/149368

And you can read about SAX in general here

http://www.devarticles.com/art/1/383/2
http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/xml/library/x-tipsaxflex.html

The latter is a good example from Uche Ogbuji about extracting pieces
of a document from a SAX stream, which might be easily adaptable to
your
problem.

But I still think you'd be better to describe the problem as simply as
you can here, rather than fumbling around.

-- 
alan kennedy
-----------------------------------------------------
check http headers here: http://xhaus.com/headers
email alan:              http://xhaus.com/mailto/alan



From leej at citymutual.com  Mon Jul 21 06:49:59 2003
From: leej at citymutual.com (L. A. Jackson)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 11:49:59 +0100
Subject: Python voting demo discussion
References: <KRMSa.112426$Io.9623657@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <mailman.1058779892.1544.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <i9hnhv85he3amagcaeg098fiqvvji47odp@4ax.com>

"XML don't really count"

Nor should dimpled chads *grin*

On 21 Jul 2003 04:30:55 -0500, Ian Bicking <ianb at colorstudy.com>
wrote:

>XML don't really count




From bokr at oz.net  Wed Jul 23 12:02:44 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 23 Jul 2003 16:02:44 GMT
Subject: The global statement
References: <pan.2003.07.23.08.06.17.301516@intnet.mu> <bfm7m8$g9shl$1@ID-63505.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <bfmbj4$69t$0@216.39.172.122>

On Wed, 23 Jul 2003 16:56:08 +0200, Thomas =?ISO-8859-15?Q?G=FCttler?= <guettler at thomas-guettler.de> wrote:

>David Hitillambeau wrote:
>
>> Hi guys,
>> As I am new to Python, i was wondering how to declare and use global
>> variables. Suppose i have the following structure in the same module (same
>> file):
>> 
>> def foo:
>>   <instructions>
>>   <instructions>
>> def bar:
>>   <instructions>
>>   <instructions>
>> 
>> I want to enable some sharing between the two functions (foo and bar)
>> using one global variable in such a way that each function can have read
>> and write access over it.
>
>Hi David,
>
>global BAD
Don't need the above line if you are already in global scope.
>BAD=1
>
>def foo():
>    global BAD
>    print BAD
>
>def bar():
>    global BAD
>    print BAD
>
>foo()
>bar()
>
>If foo and bar are in the same file, 
>you don't need the "global".
>
Unless you want to rebind it. Then you need it in order not
to get the default behaviour of creating a local within the function.
E.g., here are some variations to think about. Note what gets changed and when:

 >>> BAD = 'global BAD'
 >>> def baz():
 ...     BAD = 'local assignment binds locally unless global is specified'
 ...     print BAD
 ...
 >>> baz()
 local assignment binds locally unless global is specified
 >>> print BAD
 global BAD



 >>> def baz():
 ...     global BAD
 ...     BAD = 'assigned locally, but destination global instead because of "global BAD"'
 ...     print BAD
 ...
 >>> print BAD
 global BAD
 >>> baz()
 assigned locally, but destination global instead because of "global BAD"
 >>> print BAD
 assigned locally, but destination global instead because of "global BAD"



 >>> BAD = 'global BAD'
 >>> def baz(BAD=BAD):
 ...     BAD += ' -- local mod to local arg pre-bound to global BAD when baz defined'
 ...     print BAD
 ...
 >>> print BAD
 global BAD
 >>> BAD = 'changed global'
 >>> print BAD
 changed global
 >>> baz()
 global BAD -- local mod to local arg pre-bound to global BAD when baz defined
 >>> print BAD
 changed global

HTH

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From jjl at pobox.com  Sat Jul 26 19:22:04 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 27 Jul 2003 00:22:04 +0100
Subject: Why does Python do this?
References: <mailman.1059147589.31630.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87fzksc1r7.fsf@pobox.com>

Gre7g Luterman <gre7g-d-1059579503.1d83b3 at wolfhome.com> writes:

[...]
> Note the extra space printed when I executed the "print y" command.
[...]
> So it only seems to happen when you interrupt a print statement with
> another print statement during an implicit string conversion.

2.2.1 only does this from the interactive prompt, not from a .py.


John



From jack at performancedrivers.com  Thu Jul 17 11:20:50 2003
From: jack at performancedrivers.com (Jack Diederich)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 11:20:50 -0400
Subject: Replacing rexec
In-Reply-To: <20030717131402.26541.qmail@green.zadka.com>; from m@moshez.org on Thu, Jul 17, 2003 at 01:14:02PM -0000
References: <87adbd73f1.fsf@pobox.com>, <mailman.1058378245.3305.python-list@python.org> <bf455m$1sr$1@panix3.panix.com> <87adbd73f1.fsf@pobox.com> <20030717131402.26541.qmail@green.zadka.com>
Message-ID: <20030717112050.A1168@bitch.nowhere.blah>

On Thu, Jul 17, 2003 at 01:14:02PM -0000, Moshe Zadka wrote:
> [Aahz]
> > require forking the code.  Note that it's already too easy to write a
> > DoS attack against Python: 100L**100**100 will do it.  Conversely, if
> > only trusted code is going into the server, there's no need for rexec.
> 
> [John J. Lee]
> > I don't see how it's possible to prevent that, whatever language
> > you're using.
> 
> Limits on memory and CPU ticks used by untrusted code.
> This brand new, cutting edge technology is not yet available, and 
> LambdaMOO was, of course, a product of Guido misusing the time-machine.
> Which doesn't exist itself, either.

MUD interpreters [I only know the LPC interpreter first hand] were designed
for this from the ground up.  A single operation couldn't spin the CPU
forever or consume a world's worth of memory.  They did this badly.
It wasn't possible to crash a MUD but you could bring one to its knees by
using LIMIT-1 of every resource every bump.  MUDs also have an advantage
because the people writing code are hand picked.  They have a stake in doing
the right thing so they rarely write malicious code.

-jack




From donn at u.washington.edu  Mon Jul  7 18:03:22 2003
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 15:03:22 -0700
Subject: print attitude
References: <mailman.1057355899.31256.python-list@python.org> <3F0669B5.679FB505@alcyone.com> <donn-6838FE.09532207072003@nntp1.u.washington.edu> <3F09E62C.D1A8D53A@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <donn-6D2E25.15032207072003@nntp2.u.washington.edu>

In article <3F09E62C.D1A8D53A at alcyone.com>,
 Erik Max Francis <max at alcyone.com> wrote:

> Donn Cave wrote:
> 
> > Speaking of floats, I believe lists containing floats are the main
> > case where people really resist seeing the sense in this - but it's
> > easier to call that a wart in float's repr, since they're as bugged
> > wherever they see it and in my opinion rightly so.
> 
> Personally, I think the internal difference between str and repr hits
> right upon a proper difference:  str is for a "reasonable"
> human-readable representation, and repr is for as faithful and
> informative a representation as possible.  These both have their uses
> and I approve of the distinction.
>
> The confusion, in my opinion, comes from the fortuity of when str vs.
> repr is used, which is easy to understand once you've been exposed to it
> but is very confusing at first.  Even for someone who's familiar with
> the inaccuracy of floating point, you can very easily see how someone
> would be confused and worried about the following code fragment:
> 
> >>> x = 1.4
> >>> print x
> 1.4
> >>> print [x]
> [1.3999999999999999]

Maybe it isn't time to wade back into this, only to repeat
ad nauseum the same old discussion.  My point is that there
is a way to look at str vs. repr that 1) doesn't use utterly
ambiguous phrases like "reasonable" or "human-readable", and
2) makes it more or less self-evident that list will repr its
contents.  For more, see 61-message thread 
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&threadm=uw1i4nqpl33h.1
l3wpteil4jb0.dlg%4040tude.net&rnum=1&prev=/groups%3Fhl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%
3DUTF-8%26selm%3Duw1i4nqpl33h.1l3wpteil4jb0.dlg%254040tude.net

   Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu



From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Wed Jul 23 18:53:08 2003
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 18:53:08 -0400
Subject: very Very VERY dumb Question About The new Set( ) 's
References: <20030723144732.13232.00000523@mb-m10.aol.com>
Message-ID: <vhu4ei2e8uqe03@news.supernews.com>

"Raymond Arthur St. Marie II of III " <rastm2 at aol.commorespam> wrote in
message news:20030723144732.13232.00000523 at mb-m10.aol.com...
> very Very VERY dumb ? about the new Set( ) 's
>
> Please be kind and read this like you know I've been up 33-34 hours
reading
> PEP's but...
>
> Doc\ref 2.6 Delimiters show's three unused characters "@ $ ?".
> @ sort of looks like and sort of sounds like a set an
> $  well sort of obvious.
> I can imagine that the $ would be confused for money and @ is ugly.
>
> You folks have prob'ly been all over this.
> Even thou I've been using Python since 1.4, I only joined the
comp.lang.python
> a couple weeks ago so I don't know the flame wars over the Set
implimentation.
>
> Ray St. Marie --- Afraid to sign his name to this one
> Rastm2 at aol.bomB

Is your question why they didn't add new operators for the set
operators, rather than overloading the existing ones?

There are two factors. One is that Guido is holding those three
characters back for some time when we *really* need them. Sets
are still somewhat experimental - if they take off like wildfire they
may migrate into the core. Adding operator symbols for something
that's in  a library doesn't seem like a real good idea.

The other issue is that those three characters have no particular
relationship to sets, while the Unicode standard contains the
actual set operator symbols used in mathematics. When the source
script finally becomes Unicode will be the time to talk about
expanding the operator set. I'd be very surprised if it happens
before 3.0, and very surprised if it isn't one of the major
features in that same rather vague 3.0 release.

On the other hand, I'm hoping (without much expectation)
that we decide that 2.3 will be followed by 3.0. I've got a
little list... (with apologies to Gilbert and Sullivan.)

John Roth





From Chris.Rennert at mdi-oshkosh.com  Tue Jul  1 12:15:43 2003
From: Chris.Rennert at mdi-oshkosh.com (Chris Rennert)
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 11:15:43 -0500
Subject: remove special characters from line
References: <3f01a27d$0$43847$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net> <bds98v$hun$1@news.rol.ru> <3F01AECF.965FAADA@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <3f01b363$0$43851$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net>

Thanks guys for the help,

As I was waiting for a reply I was trying a few things as well, this is what
I ended up doing.
I created a   list with all the valid characters in in and just did a index
check if(line[0] in LIST):
That seemed to do  exactly what I wanted.
Again I thank you for the constructive replies Radovan & Alan.

Chris Rennert
"Alan Kennedy" <alanmk at hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3F01AECF.965FAADA at hotmail.com...
> [Chris Rennert]
>
> > If I have a line like this
> >
> > ?blah blah blah blah blah
> >
> > I know I could do a slice like this [1:] to pull everything but the
> > special character, but what if I have several lines in a file.
> > I am not sure how I would detect a special character like that.  I
> > would just like to pull everything from those lines (and the special
> > character always appears as the first character, but not on every line)
> > except for the special characters.
>
> How about something like this?
>
> for line in file('myfile.stars'):
>     print line.lstrip('*')
>
> Should remove all '*' (even if there is more than one) from the beginnings
(but
> not the ends) of lines.
>
> Egor Bolonev wrote:
>
> > I didn't get what you're talkink about.
>
> Then what was the purpose of your reply?
>
> I find it helps keeps the signal noise to ratio of the group down if
people only
> post when they have something to contribute.
>
> regards,
>
> -- 
> alan kennedy
> -----------------------------------------------------
> check http headers here: http://xhaus.com/headers
> email alan:              http://xhaus.com/mailto/alan





From mwh at python.net  Thu Jul 31 06:54:22 2003
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 10:54:22 GMT
Subject: keystroke check
References: <mailman.1059619004.15764.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7h3brvbarwl.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

Wes Fraser <ugly_411 at yahoo.com> writes:

> Is there any way to check in a loop to see if at that
> given moment in the program, a key on the key board is
> being pressed without actually stopping like raw_ipnut
> does?

The answer to this depends very strongly on the platform you're
running on.

Cheers,
mwh

-- 
  I wouldn't trust the Anglo-Saxons for much anything else.  Given
  they way English is spelled, who could trust them on _anything_ that
  had to do with writing things down, anyway?
                                        -- Erik Naggum, comp.lang.lisp



From t.leeuwenburg at nothing.bom.gov.au  Fri Jul 18 01:23:03 2003
From: t.leeuwenburg at nothing.bom.gov.au (Tennessee James Leeuwenburg)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 15:23:03 +1000
Subject: null pointer exceptions
References: <pan.2003.07.18.04.32.08.409676@nothing.bom.gov.au> <3F17806E.3B9B4F75@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2003.07.18.05.22.56.317254@nothing.bom.gov.au>

On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 22:06:54 -0700, Erik Max Francis wrote:

Certainly I can catch it. However, Java does not require that it be caught
itself. 

I realise it's not great practise to leave these kinds of things in your
Java code, but I'm extending someone else's code, and don't really want to
back-correct class after class as I find these problems coming up,
especially since it doesn't cause Java any hassles.

But I might end up having to - I just thought someone might know a neat
way of getting around the problem.

Cheers,
-Tennessee

> Tennessee James Leeuwenburg wrote:
> 
>> I have a class which includes adding an ImageIcon. If the required
>> graphic
>> resource isn't present, there is a NullPointerException. Java doesn't
>> care
>> - the straight Java program handles it internally and gets on with
>> life.
>> But when I include it from Python, it explodes.
> 
> A java.lang.NullPointerException is just an exception like anything
> else.  Can't you just catch it?
> 
> max at oxygen:~/tmp% cat NullCaster.java
> import java.lang.*;
> 
> public class NullCaster
> {
>     public static void main(String[] args)
>     {
>         Object nullObject = null;
>         String nullString = (String) nullObject;
>         nullString.length();
>     }
> }
> max at oxygen:~/tmp% javac NullCaster.java
> max at oxygen:~/tmp% jython
> Jython 2.1 on java1.4.1 (JIT: null)
> Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>>> import java.lang
>>>> import NullCaster
>>>> try:
> ...  NullCaster.main([])
> ... except java.lang.NullPointerException, e:
> ...  print 'oops:', e 
> ... 
> oops: java.lang.NullPointerException




From theller at python.net  Fri Jul 18 06:12:38 2003
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 12:12:38 +0200
Subject: Using Unicode scripts
References: <3f17c520$0$7194$626a54ce@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <oezsw3c9.fsf@python.net>

"yzzzzz" <yzzzzz at netcourrier.com> writes:

> Hi,
>
> I am writing my python programs using a Unicode text editor. The files are
> encoded in UTF-8. Python's default encoding seems to be Latin 1 (ISO-8859-1)
> or maybe Windows-1252 (CP1252) which aren't compatible with UTF-8.
>
> For example, if I type print "?", it prints ??. If I use a unicode string:
> a=u"?" and if I choose to encode it in UTF-8, I get 4 Latin 1 characters,
> which makes sense if the interpreter thinks I typed in u"??".
>
> How can I solve this problem?
>
> Thank you
>
> PS. I have no problem using Unicode strings in Python, I know how to
> manipulate and convert them, I'm just looking for how to specify the default
> encoding for the scripts I write.

Use Python 2.3, and read PEP 263.

Thomas



From mertz at gnosis.cx  Sat Jul 12 01:45:07 2003
From: mertz at gnosis.cx (David Mertz)
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 01:45:07 -0400
Subject: What's new with Gnosis
Message-ID: <jB6D/kKkXofT092yn@gnosis.cx>                       

At the suggestion of one of my correspondents, I slightly reluctantly
implemented an RSS feed for my website/writing.  It is perhaps a bit
crude so far, but maybe I'll spiff it up.  The RSS also has an HTML
front to it.

If you want to see the latest news about my _Charming Python_ or _XML
Matters_ columns, or about other articles (later, perhaps stuff about
my book), take a look at:

    http://gnosis.cx/rss.xml

Or

    http://www.gnosis.cx/publish/whatsnew.html

I'm new to this RSS stuff... so let me know (gently) if I've done
anything terribly wrong.

--
 mertz@  _/_/_/_/ THIS MESSAGE WAS BROUGHT TO YOU BY: \_\_\_\_    n o
gnosis  _/_/             Postmodern Enterprises            \_\_
.cx    _/_/                                                 \_\_  d o
      _/_/_/ IN A WORLD W/O WALLS, THERE WOULD BE NO GATES \_\_\_ z e





From jack at performancedrivers.com  Wed Jul  2 03:22:17 2003
From: jack at performancedrivers.com (Jack Diederich)
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 03:22:17 -0400
Subject: functors
In-Reply-To: <3jc4gvgn5rb4c4008eedg958ee594lu8p2@4ax.com>; from tomas@fancy.org on Tue, Jul 01, 2003 at 06:25:18PM -0700
References: <3jc4gvgn5rb4c4008eedg958ee594lu8p2@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <20030702032217.E1055@localhost.localdomain>

On Tue, Jul 01, 2003 at 06:25:18PM -0700, Tom Plunket wrote:
> How can I create a functor object in Python?
> 
> What I want (being a C++ coder <g>), is to be able to create an
> object that I is callable.  The following is my attempt, but it
> doesn't work:

I would make countdown dumber, and make the call more explicit

def countdown(thismany)
  for (i) in range(thismany):
    yield False
  yield True
  while True:
    yield False

>     def Update(self):
>         while not self.done:
>             self.countdown.Update()
becomes

def Update(self):
  while not self.done:
    if (self.countdown.next()):
      self.Callback() # person reading the code knows what happens

but if you really want the hidden callback, just change the countdown()

def countdown(thismany, call_this):
  for (i) in range(thismany):
    yield 69 # ignored by caller anyway
  call_this() # make the callback
  while True:
    yield 42 # more ignored yields   

But I'm not sure if this is what you really want, the countdown() keeps going
even after it has fired.  Hence the 'While True: yield False'

If you need the callback because you have a whole bunch and can't keep track
of each one individually, I'd make a parent class that decrements everyone
and pops people after they fire.

class Watcher(object):
  def __init__(self):
    self.watched = []
    self.i = 0

  def watch(count, call_this):
    self.watched.append((self.i+count, call_this))
  
  def decrement(self):
    self.i += 1
    callthese = filter(lambda x:x[0]<i, self.watched)
    self.watched = filter(lambda x:x[0]>=i, self.watched)

    for (dummy, callthis) in callthese:
      callthis()

Just for fun, let's play with itertools

from itertools import *

def countdown(thismany):
  return chain(repeat(False, thismany), [True], repeat(False))

or the abusive

def countdown(thismany, callthis):
  def fakeout(): # because "lambda x:yield x()" isn't legal
    yield callthis()
  return chain(repeat(None, thismany-1), fakeout(), repeat(None))

and the totally abusive (and totally untested)

class Watcher(object):
  def __init__(self):
    self.watched = repeat(None)
    self.curr = 0
  def watch(self, count, callthis):
    def fakeout():
      yield callthis()
    assert(count > self.curr) # new job must fire after the current longest one
    self.watched = chain(repeat(None, count-1-self.curr), fakeout(), self.watched)
    self.curr = count
  def decrement(self):
    if (self.curr):
      self.curr -= 1
    self.watched.next()
 

Enjoy,

-jackdied




From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Jul 17 09:23:22 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 09:23:22 -0400
Subject: Co-routines
References: <g7xRa.305$fF.9914@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au>
Message-ID: <3F16A34A.5742F54F@engcorp.com>

thewrights at ozemail.com.au wrote:
> 
> I have an application in which I want the users to be able to create python
> functions:
> 
> def f1():
>     print "1-1"
>     print "1-2"
>     print "1-3"
> 
> def f2():
>     print "2-1"
>     print "2-2"
>     print "3-3"
> 
> and when my application runs, I want to execute these functions in
> "lock-step", so that the output looks like:
> 
>     1-1
>     2-2
>     1-2
>     2-2
>     1-3
>     2-3

I think the problem is underspecified.  What do you mean by the quoted
phrase "lock-step"?  Your example includes only simple print statements,
which generate output to sys.stdout.  What are you really trying to 
accomplish?  Do you want individual bytecodes to be executed one at a
time from a series of functions?  Do you want any output to be interlaced
on a line-by-line basis?  Any call to any I/O routine?  Need more detail.

-Peter



From martin at v.loewis.de  Mon Jul 14 01:47:40 2003
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-15?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 14 Jul 2003 07:47:40 +0200
Subject: =?iso-8859-1?q?=F1=EF=E5=F8=E8=E0=EB_=E4=EB=FF_=F0=EE=F1?=
 =?iso-8859-1?q?=F1=E8=E9=F1=EA=E8=F5_=EF=E8=F2=EE=ED=F9=E8=EA=EE=E2?=)))
References: <37d6f77c.0307130932.1e3adf0d@posting.google.com> <3f11ac74$0$49101$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl> <3F11D94A.7050208@removeme.free.fr> <3F11BF87.9000208@v.loewis.de> <3f11de85$0$49112$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <m3brvxr75v.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Irmen de Jong <irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl> writes:

> > I think this roughly translates into "Can you please tell me where to
> > find the proggie freezer (which appears to be needed to create exes)?"
> 
> Wow, you apparently understand what Garber wrote, too...

The joys of having grown up in an east-block country... These days, I
wish my Russian was better than it is.

Regards,
Martin



From chp01as at shef.ac.uk  Wed Jul 16 05:31:35 2003
From: chp01as at shef.ac.uk (XspiriX)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 10:31:35 +0100
Subject: parsing file
Message-ID: <bf36ct$a3coh$1@ID-190388.news.uni-berlin.de>

Hi
I am new here and so in python :-)
I am trying to make a script for extracting (parsing?) some values from 
a file and write them into an output
i thought to follow this example (cookbook):

#!/usr/bin/env python
import os, sys

nargs = len(sys.argv)

if not 3 <= nargs <= 5:
    print "usage: %s search_text replace_text [infile [outfile]]" % \
        os.path.basename(sys.argv[0])
else:
    stext = sys.argv[1]
    rtext = sys.argv[2]
    input = sys.stdin
    output = sys.stdout
    if nargs > 3:
        input = open(sys.argv[3])
    if nargs > 4:
        output = open(sys.argv[4], 'w')
    for s in input.xreadlines():
        output.write(s.replace(stext, rtext))
    output.close()
    input.close()
indeed this search and replace the text, so I am thinking to take off 
the code part about the replacement and to add something else. may you 
give me some suggestion? sorry if it looks like a newbie question....if 
it so just ignore it ;-)

cheers

-- 
enjoy
XspiriX
Mathematics is the language of nature.
Everything around us can be represented and understood
through numbers.




From petrk at pochtamt.ru  Tue Jul 22 03:49:52 2003
From: petrk at pochtamt.ru (Peter Klyushkin)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 11:49:52 +0400
Subject: Directory Structure for Distutils
References: <bfgc58$edkhi$1@ID-63505.news.uni-berlin.de> <bfghi3$dqlq7$1@ID-63505.news.uni-berlin.de>
 <m3k7ac81sh.fsf@pochtamt.ru> <bfgujc$eo3o2$1@ID-63505.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <m33cgz57bz.fsf@pochtamt.ru>

Hello, Thomas!

>>>>> "TG" == Thomas G?ttler writes:

 TG> Peter Klyushkin wrote:

 >> Hello, Thomas!

 TG>>> One thing is still unclear: How can I copy non python files
 TG>>> into the destination?  There is a directory called "gif" which
 TG>>> needs to be in the directory of the my module.

 >> Take a look at ResourcePackage.  It isn't exactly what you want
 >> but it is exactly for your purpose.

 TG> Thank you for this link, but I don't want the images to become
 TG> python source.

 TG> Still looking for a solution ...

In this case you have to write setup.py with subclassed Distutils'
install_data providing needed functionality.  Additionally you'll have
to keep a configuration file in the same directory as your Python
modules which stores paths to images.  Real paths will be written to
it on installation.

For examples on subclassing install_data see setup.py's of well known
Python software - I've seen such examples, but don't remember
where. :-)


-- 
                                                             C'ya, Peter.
		      --=[petrk at pochtamt.ru]=--
        --=[ICQ 89449080]=--=[Jabber dassburger at jabber.ru]=--



From adalke at mindspring.com  Mon Jul 28 15:08:41 2003
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 13:08:41 -0600
Subject: Fastest way to count your iterations?
References: <a9e86706.0307281041.395e3bc8@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bg3s3p$tnp$1@slb2.atl.mindspring.net>

Tracy Ruggles:
> If you're writing a simple script and you want to give an update of
> its progress...  Is this the fastest way to do it (assuming that what
> you're iterating through is very, very long and the time to process
> each item is relatively short)...

What you wrote is very standard, so I would suggest using it.

However, if you want performance, try variations on

def counter(items, f, sep=1000):
  next_item = iter(items).next
  values = range(sep)
  for i in range(0, sys.maxint, sep):
    for j in values:
      f(next_item())
    print i+sep+1


                    Andrew
                    dalke at dalkescientific.com





From gsmatthew at ozemail.com.au  Mon Jul  7 08:22:59 2003
From: gsmatthew at ozemail.com.au (Graeme Matthew)
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 22:22:59 +1000
Subject: Python is a gem ,another successful day ....
References: <ECUNa.628$kY2.37591@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au> <am0Oa.461715$3n5.245818@news2.central.cox.net> <5654fff9.0307061920.1a80bbc7@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <GCdOa.236$fI5.9949@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au>

Hi Ray, Steve

The company that is interested in finding an alternative has provided a
software solution for 25 years now. It has been through a plethora of
microsoft conversions from dos, /BASIC through to WinXP /VB 6.0. As some
companies are small their version has an Access Database (dont ask me why
:-)) and the medium to large sized organisations have SQL Server backends.

I am also doing a job for a partner company of theirs and they originally
wanted a VB6 front end onto a SQL Server backend. Luckily the head of the
partner company is an open minded I.T professional (going back to assembler
/ unix programming) so convincing him was not too difficult. The press has
been really good regarding open source and linux so I think more people are
realising that there are better products that exist that dont bear the
Microsoft name.

Ray is correct in what he says, VB6 has a short lifespan and the migration
to VB.NET is not that simple.

This company is now having untold problems with WinXP as long running
network connections that are idle are automatically disconnected, their
application for small users open a permanent connection to Access and this
disconnecting "feature" for the sake of network performance is causing
corruptions.

The issues with MDAC (ADO) is also causing support nightmares, i.e
downgrading upgrading , but im not to up to date with all the issues
regarding this. Python solves this as modules are text files and through
sys.path one can control the search path

DLL versions etc have been a nightmare since day one ....

My first motivation was to get them away from Desktop dev and move to
intranet based applications. This they realise and can see the benefits of
moving to this new ("Yet old") alternative. So the question then was What
language / technology to use ?

My first issue to highlight was that if we went with Microsoft then the
costs would be greater not only in licensing but  also server specs, and
from fellow colleagues doing .NET development they all say its hungry on
system resources. I also emphasized that Microsoft will be "coercing" them
to keep upgrading and that we should remain vendor neutral and get out of an
environment where choice is limited ....

Having programmed in Perl on Linux, I remembered how frustrating it was to
come back to your code or others , 6 months later and not understand it (:-)
not that bad) I think perl is great, so I shifted to python which I know
offers way more than VB 6, even VB.NET especially if multiple programmers
are to work on a project. I also emphasized the importance of a language
been controlled and progressing through programmer enhancement proposals and
computer science principles rather than a marketing panel, I mean how many
times do they change concepts and badge it under something new in VB ? I
also love ruby but I still feel that there are too few libraries, datbase
interfaces (we need this for possible integration.)

Visual Basic has also been a nightmare for memory management and its 1MB
stack space, so recursion is out, in a recent project I have had to write
recursive and non recursive quicksorts and binary searches so I can switch
on large array sets.

I also feel that microsoft's focus on marketing concepts without fixing or
enhancing the core language, even in VB6 now arrays dont have pop so one has
to hold the entire array in memory even when your down to the last few
elements. There are ways to remove items but a lot of work. I feel that its
things like this rather than Data Environments, Class Wizards and
containment instead of inheritence is what has made it into the language
that it is.

Not sure if I am making sense, one could write forever :-)

Cheers

Graeme


"Ray Smith" <ray at rays-web.com> wrote in message
news:5654fff9.0307061920.1a80bbc7 at posting.google.com...
> "Steve Holden" <sholden at holdenweb.com> wrote in message
news:<am0Oa.461715$3n5.245818 at news2.central.cox.net>...
>
> > I'd be interested in knowing some of the arguments you used to win over
VB,
> > as I've been asked to put a couple of articles together suggesting why
VB
> > users might consider switching to Python.
>
> The first obvious reason is that VB 6 (which most VB users currently use)
will
> be unsupported by 31-Mar-2005.
> http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=fh;en-us;LifeDevToolFam
>
> The change from VB 6 to VB.Net is a huge change and in some cases a
complete
> re-write.
> For some features missing in .Net see:
> http://www.mvps.org/vb/index2.html?rants/vfred.htm
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Ray Smith





From news at yebu.de  Tue Jul 15 03:32:55 2003
From: news at yebu.de (Karl Scalet)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 09:32:55 +0200
Subject: A few beginning questions
In-Reply-To: <ptkdj863.fsf@python.net>
References: <3f129a8a$1@mail.hmgcc.gov.uk> <2259b0e2.0307140930.4b3c43a5@posting.google.com> <ptkdj863.fsf@python.net>
Message-ID: <bf0anc$9gch1$1@ID-141451.news.uni-berlin.de>

Thomas Heller schrieb:
> mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato) writes:
> 
> 
> I have not yet tried optparse. Is it able to parse Windows' style
> command lines (use '/' instead of '-', ignore case of command line
> options, use long options with a single '-' or '/')?

Just tried it, does not handle '/' the same way as '-',
and does not ignore case sensitivity.
Yes, it handles short and long forms. You add options to the
OptionParser and each option can have a short and a long form, i.e:

option_parser.add_option('-v', '--verbose', action='store_true')

After:
(cfg, args_) = parser.parse_args(args)

cfg automatically has verbose as an attribute, nice!

Karl




From jeremy at alum.mit.edu  Tue Jul  8 12:21:29 2003
From: jeremy at alum.mit.edu (Jeremy Hylton)
Date: 08 Jul 2003 12:21:29 -0400
Subject: __eq__ and __ne__
In-Reply-To: <3F0AEC76.8080304@zope.com>
References: <BIEJKCLHCIOIHAGOKOLHAEFCGDAA.tim@zope.com>
	 <3F0AEC76.8080304@zope.com>
Message-ID: <1057681289.2342.34.camel@slothrop.zope.com>

On Tue, 2003-07-08 at 12:08, Shane Hathaway wrote:
> Tim Peters wrote:
> > Since the richcmp operators aren't constrained to return scalars, an attempt
> > to define one in terms of the others seemed futile.  Instead they're 6
> > independent methods.
> 
> Ok.  Thanks for finding the docs.  I guess I'll stick to my boilerplate 
> code.  I think some guidance should be added to the Python docs, though, 
> explaining that whenever you define __eq__, you very likely ought to 
> define __ne__ also.

I believe C++ has the same behavior when you overload logical
operators.  So at least people familiar with the same behavior in other
languages won't be surprised.

Jeremy






From bokr at oz.net  Thu Jul 17 01:38:05 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 17 Jul 2003 05:38:05 GMT
Subject: Augmented Assignment question
References: <215bhv0bnkn13eivh0s64ic5ml8obpgfg7@4ax.com> <bf4dsq$m0o$1@panix3.panix.com> <3gjbhv0qk20q2qqunpj17329atq092muon@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <bf5cnt$pdh$0@216.39.172.122>

On Wed, 16 Jul 2003 22:17:40 GMT, Doug Tolton <dtolton at yahoo.com> wrote:

>On 16 Jul 2003 16:51:38 -0400, aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) wrote:
>
>>In article <215bhv0bnkn13eivh0s64ic5ml8obpgfg7 at 4ax.com>,
>>Doug Tolton  <dtolton at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>I did some reading and it seems that an augmented assignment is
>>>specifically verboten on tuples and lists.  Is there a clean way to
>>>accomplish this?  
>>
>>Really?
>>
>>>>> l = []
>>>>> l+=[1]
>>>>> l
>>[1]
>>>>> l+=['foo']
>>>>> l
>>[1, 'foo']
>
>
>I mis-spoke, lists are not included.  You cannot do augmented
>assignments on tuples or multiple targets.
>
>you can do what you typed, but you can't do.
>
>>>> a,b = 0,0
>>>> a,b += 1,1
>SyntaxError: augmented assign to tuple not possible
>
>or this:
>
>>>> a,b = [],[]
>>>> a,b += [1],[1]
>SyntaxError: augmented assign to tuple not possible
>
>That is specifically the point I was getting at.  Forgive the
>technical slip of including lists in the discussion.
>
A little experiment (not tested beyond what you see ;-):

 >>> class TX(tuple):
 ...     def __add__(self, other):
 ...         return TX([s+o for s,o in zip(self, other)])
 ...
 >>> tx = TX((2,2))
 >>> tx
 (2, 2)
 >>> tx + (3,5)
 (5, 7)
 >>> tx
 (2, 2)
 >>> tx += (3,5)
 >>> tx
 (5, 7)
 >>> tx += 10,20
 >>> tx
 (15, 27)
 >>> tt = TX(('ab','cd','ef'))
 >>> tt
 ('ab', 'cd', 'ef')
 >>> tt += '123'
 >>> tt
 ('ab1', 'cd2', 'ef3')


Regards,
Bengt Richter



From Brian.Inglis at SystematicSw.ab.ca  Tue Jul 22 03:57:35 2003
From: Brian.Inglis at SystematicSw.ab.ca (Brian Inglis)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 07:57:35 GMT
Subject: Collective memory
References: <mailman.1057083728.8224.python-list@python.org> <vg88va53uha8e@corp.supernews.com> <1057243309.793889@saucer.planet.gong> <vg8hns2u0l4off@corp.supernews.com> <1057251216.551262@saucer.planet.gong>
Message-ID: <c4qphvsiuulkk5t9r97d62osksqlji1eur@4ax.com>

On Thu, 3 Jul 2003 17:53:36 +0100 in alt.folklore.computers,
"Rupert Pigott" <roo at dark-try-removing-this-boong.demon.co.uk>
wrote:

>"Pete Fenelon" <pete at fenelon.com> wrote in message
>news:vg8hns2u0l4off at corp.supernews.com...
>> In alt.folklore.computers Rupert Pigott
><roo at dark-try-removing-this-boong.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>> >
>> > OCCAM used WS to denote block structure... For
>>
>> ...and was generally written with folding editors that just "got it
>> right" ;)
>
>I noticed that a few of the KDE 3.1 editors support folding... :)
>
>Took me a while to work out what those lines & + things were in
>the left margin... Made me happy. :)

Xedit on IBM mainframes has supported it since at least the early
80s, as have later clones like Kedit, uni-xedit, THE; vim
supports it among the vi clones. emacs? 

As an old Xedit user, it was normally called hiding or shadowing
referring to the shadow lines telling you how many lines are
hidden, scope, selective display, or just the "all" command. 
What bright spark came up with a third overload of folding: as in
folding long lines; folding upper/lower case; and now folding
"structure"? 

Thanks. Take care, Brian Inglis 	Calgary, Alberta, Canada
-- 
Brian.Inglis at CSi.com 	(Brian dot Inglis at SystematicSw dot ab dot ca)
    fake address		use address above to reply



From intentionally at blank.co.uk  Sun Jul 13 22:39:34 2003
From: intentionally at blank.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 03:39:34 +0100
Subject: anything like C++ references?
References: <13t0hvsb7idh0g6ac3upe5k0qd6flc17ah@4ax.com> <pan.2003.07.13.10.58.11.376531@127.0.0.1> <lq-cnWRG9rRuMIyiXTWJjQ@comcast.com> <bet14e$g05$1@panix3.panix.com>
Message-ID: <2p54hvsehcc3m3d63dpb76t9qfkcgdaf2d@4ax.com>

On 13 Jul 2003 21:30:54 -0400, aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) wrote:

>In article <lq-cnWRG9rRuMIyiXTWJjQ at comcast.com>,
>Terry Reedy <tjreedy at udel.edu> wrote:
>>
>>In Python, most builtin types are immutable.  The two mutable builtin
>>types are lists and dicts.  Instances of user-defined classes are also
>>mutable by default.
>
>Actually, files are mutable, too.  Then again, so are modules.  And
>functions.  Gee, there are an awful lot of built-in mutable types.  ;-)

True. Damn. 'Boneheaded' is definitely my thing, today.




From staschuk at telusplanet.net  Fri Jul 25 17:35:58 2003
From: staschuk at telusplanet.net (Steven Taschuk)
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 15:35:58 -0600
Subject: How to detect typos in Python programs
In-Reply-To: <gwgUa.10$gZ.230@news.oracle.com>; from manish.j@gmx.net on Sat, Jul 26, 2003 at 01:54:48AM +0530
References: <ZPaUa.6$gZ.133@news.oracle.com> <3F214977.AEB088C8@engcorp.com> <gwgUa.10$gZ.230@news.oracle.com>
Message-ID: <20030725153558.C205@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>

Quoth Manish Jethani:
  [...]
> Actually I am writing a client app for a proprietary service.
> The server is not under my control, so I can't make it behave in
> a way that will cause every part of my client code to be tested.
> As I mentioned, for example, I have a function to handle a
> server-disconnect.  But the server rarely ever disconnects of
> its own, so the function never gets called in reality.  Can I
> unit test this function easily?

Mock objects are the usual approach to this kind of problem.
(Google can tell you more.)

-- 
Steven Taschuk                                     staschuk at telusplanet.net
Receive them ignorant; dispatch them confused.  (Weschler's Teaching Motto)




From nicodemus at globalite.com.br  Thu Jul 17 15:05:56 2003
From: nicodemus at globalite.com.br (Nicodemus)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 16:05:56 -0300
Subject: Bug overriding operators in new-style classes?
Message-ID: <00cb01c34c96$736685d0$2700000a@esss.com.br>

Hi all,

I found a surprising behavior regarding new-style classes operator lookup.
It seems that for operators, the instance methods are ignored. Observe:

>>> class C:
...     def foo(self):
...         print 'foo'
...     def __setitem__(self, k, v):
...         print 'C.__setitem__', k, v
...
>>> c = C()
>>> c.foo()
foo
>>> c[1] = 1
C.__setitem__ 1 1
>>> def my_foo():
...     print 'my_foo'
...
>>> def my_setitem(k, v):
...     print 'my_setitem', k, v
...
>>> c.foo = my_foo
>>> c.__setitem__ = my_setitem
>>> c.foo()
my_foo
>>> c[1] = 1
my_setitem 1 1
>>>

All is well. Now, if you use a new-style class, the instance method is not
called:

>>> class C(object):
...     def foo(self):
...         print 'foo'
...     def __setitem__(self, k, v):
...         print 'C.__setitem__', k, v
...
>>> c = C()
>>> c.foo()
foo
>>> c[1] = 1
C.__setitem__ 1 1
>>> def my_foo():
...     print 'my_foo'
...
>>> def my_setitem(k, v):
...     print 'my_setitem', k, v
...
>>> c.foo = my_foo
>>> c.__setitem__ = my_setitem
>>> c.foo()
my_foo
>>> c[1] = 1
C.__setitem__ 1 1  # should print "my_setitem 1 1"
>>>

Is this a bug, or am I missing something? Any help would be appreciated.

Regards,
Nicodemus.





From tjreedy at udel.edu  Wed Jul  9 13:59:40 2003
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 13:59:40 -0400
Subject: Python Global Constant
References: <mailman.1057737013.30246.python-list@python.org> <3F0BE68B.893EB7E5@engcorp.com> <mailman.1057746854.11257.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <lridncal3tSRxZGiXTWJjw@comcast.com>

> What about using __builtins__ wouldn't make this the constant really
global?

Short respone: this is an implementation-detail-dependent hack that
Guido discourges and that Guido would be willing to break if there
were sufficient gain otherwise.

Longer answer: I once though of doing this too.  However, the language
reference specifies  module import as the means to make objects
globally accessible.  I don't believe that the language reference
specifies the implementation details for the builtins namespace.
While currently
implemented as a user-writeble dict of the {} type, bound to the name
__builtins__, this could change.

Terry J. Reedy





From bokr at oz.net  Wed Jul 23 17:05:50 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 23 Jul 2003 21:05:50 GMT
Subject: How does Mr. Martelli's Borg recipe work ?
References: <764b8294.0307221520.18017b09@posting.google.com> <vhru01p6s53790@news.supernews.com> <mailman.1058985883.11441.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bfmtbe$6lt$0@216.39.172.122>

On Wed, 23 Jul 2003 12:48:00 -0600, Steven Taschuk <staschuk at telusplanet.net> wrote:

>Quoth John Roth:
>  [...]
>> I can kind of understand the justification for the Borg pattern
>> in Python releases before 2.2, because there was no way of
>> creating a true singleton in those releases. However, in 2.2 and
>> later, it's really easy to create one using new style classes.
>  [...implementing singletons with __new__...]
>> That being the case, I'd like to see the Borg pattern go the way
>> of a fondly remembered hack that is no longer necessary.
>
>Just out of curiosity: why do you prefer singletons to Borgs in
>the first place?
>
>(I don't see Borg as a hack to get the behaviour of a singleton; I
>see it as a more direct way to solve the problem which singletons
>are supposed to solve.  Thus to me Borg is actually preferable, in
>those exceedingly rare cases when that problem actually arises.)
>
How about just

    import zerolengthfile as borginstancename

and using it? E.g.,

 [14:04] C:\pywk\clp>dir zer*, a.* b.*
 <snips>
 03-07-23  13:50                      0 zero_len.py
 03-07-23  14:01                     28 a.py
 03-07-23  14:02                     28 b.py
 
 [14:05] C:\pywk\clp>type a.py
 import zero_len as aborg
 
 
 [14:05] C:\pywk\clp>type b.py
 import zero_len as bborg
 
 
 [14:05] C:\pywk\clp>python
 Python 2.2.2 (#37, Oct 14 2002, 17:02:34) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
 Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
 >>> import zero_len as inter
 >>> import a
 >>> import b
 >>> dir()
 ['__builtins__', '__doc__', '__name__', 'a', 'b', 'inter']
 >>> dir(a)
 ['__builtins__', '__doc__', '__file__', '__name__', 'aborg']
 >>> dir(b)
 ['__builtins__', '__doc__', '__file__', '__name__', 'bborg']
 >>> inter.x = 123
 >>> a.aborg.x
 123
 >>> b.bborg.x
 123
 >>> b.bborg.y = 456
 >>> a.aborg.y
 456
 >>> inter.y
 456
 >>>
 
Regards,
Bengt Richter



From DevCoach at see.sig.for.address  Thu Jul 31 10:17:28 2003
From: DevCoach at see.sig.for.address (DevCoach)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 15:17:28 +0100
Subject: Announcing issue 2 of The Agile Developer's Life free eZine
Message-ID: <l49iivciln0uhttc7seeb339gplev7lua8@4ax.com>

I have just published the second issue of The Agile Developer's Life
(formerly called The Agile Life), a free eZine devoted to the human
side of software development. This issue contains an article on
creativity and software development.  

The Agile Developer's Life is a collection of tools, techniques and
ideas to enable software professionals and teams to go beyond the
status quo and achieve more than they thought possible. Drawing on
ideas from agile software development, psychology, creativity,
complexity, system dynamics and life/business coaching, The Agile
Developer's Life is for anyone in the IT industry who want to find new
ways of improving their work and their lives.

You can read the latest issue at
http://www.thedeveloperscoach.com/AgileLife.htm, or subscribe by
sending a blank email to agile_life-subscribe at topica.com.

Dave Kirby -  The Developers' Coach
Helping software professionals and teams achieve peak performance

email: dave
       @thedeveloperscoach
       .com

web: http://www.thedeveloperscoach.com 
  - sign up for my new free eZine, The Agile Developer's Life



From alanmk at hotmail.com  Wed Jul 30 16:59:34 2003
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 21:59:34 +0100
Subject: How to get Windows physical RAM using python?
References: <bg90lh$bkp$1@news3.bu.edu> <bg92o2$onr$1@news3.bu.edu>
Message-ID: <3F2831B6.8322121C@hotmail.com>

[Mark wrote]
> OK, How to check the amount of Windows physical RAM using python?

Well, I thought it was going to be simple, but I didn't figure
Microsoft into my considerations :-(

There's a Windows statistics module, an interface to the MS
"Performance Data Helper", as part of the Mark Hammond's Win32
Extensions, which you should install.

http://starship.python.net/crew/mhammond/

There are code samples in the following files after install

%PYTHONHOME%\Lib\site-packages\win32\lib\win32pdhutil.py
%PYTHONHOME%\Lib\site-packages\win32\lib\win32pdhquery.py

The following piece of code gives you lots of statistics about
'Memory'

#-------------------
import    win32pdh

items = win32pdh.EnumObjectItems(None, None,\
	 "Memory", win32pdh.PERF_DETAIL_WIZARD)[0]
for stat_name in items:
    query = win32pdh.OpenQuery()
    subquery = win32pdh.MakeCounterPath(\
    	(None,'Memory',None,None,-1,stat_name) )
    handle_on_sample = win32pdh.AddCounter(query, subquery)
    win32pdh.CollectQueryData(query)
    wtfit, value = win32pdh.GetFormattedCounterValue(\
    	handle_on_sample, win32pdh.PDH_FMT_LONG)
    print "%s%s= %d" % (stat_name, '\t'*(4-len(stat_name)//8), value)
    win32pdh.CloseQuery(query)
#-------------------

But unfortunately, I can't find a 'Total Physical RAM', or comparable,
value in the output. Which I would consider a bit of an oversight by
the provider, i.e. MS.

I've looked at the other statistics available, by running this piece
of code

#-------------------
import win32pdh
print "options = {}\n\n"
for o in win32pdh.EnumObjects(None, None, -1):
    items, instances = win32pdh.EnumObjectItems(None, None, o, -1)
    print "options['%s'] = [" % o
    for i in items:
        print "\t'%s'," % i
    print "]\n\n"
#-------------------

but I can't find 'Total Physical RAM' anywhere. Am I barking up the
wrong tree? Or just barking ;-)

regards,

-- 
alan kennedy
-----------------------------------------------------
check http headers here: http://xhaus.com/headers
email alan:              http://xhaus.com/mailto/alan



From peter at engcorp.com  Wed Jul  2 15:06:33 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 15:06:33 -0400
Subject: strings
References: <bdnqrj$j72$2@news.rol.ru> <3eff7487$0$49112$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl> <bdnsm4$jua$1@news.rol.ru>
Message-ID: <3F032D39.4DD6B394@engcorp.com>

Egor Bolonev wrote:
> 
> > > Hi All!
> > >
> > > I have a
> > > 'Pink Floyd/x00/x00/x00/x00/x00/x00/x00/x00/x00/x00/x00/x00'
> > > and I want a
> > > 'Pink Floyd'
> > > How can I manage it?
> > >
> > > This one isn't work.
> > > author=f.read(30).replace('\0',' ').rstrip() #from mp3 tag
> > >
> >
> > That is weird. Are you sure? It works on my system:
> > (BTW: I think you mean \x00 instead of /x00)
> >
> >  >>> a='Pink Floyd\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00'
> >  >>> a
> > 'Pink Floyd\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00'
> >  >>> a.replace('\0',' ').rstrip()
> > 'Pink Floyd'
> >  >>>
> 
> Yes it's weird. The Interactive window of PythonWin shows it correct, but
> debugger window is not.:-(

In the debugger window, are you attempting to assign to a local 
variable?  I believe I've encountered problems doing this unless
I prefixed it with "!".  Or was it that I was using one-character
variable names that conflicted with one of Pdb's commands?  I 
forget...

-Peter



From bokr at oz.net  Thu Jul  3 16:29:33 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 3 Jul 2003 20:29:33 GMT
Subject: cooperation of buitlin methods usingtsuper
References: <bduh36$rgn$1@news.sns-felb.debis.de> <2259b0e2.0307020855.478300c2@posting.google.com> <be0lic$rgn$2@news.sns-felb.debis.de> <2259b0e2.0307030652.697001dd@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <be23nd$aqp$0@216.39.172.122>

On 3 Jul 2003 07:52:44 -0700, mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato) wrote:

>> In <2259b0e2.0307020855.478300c2 at posting.google.com> Michele Simionato wrote:
>> > Matthias Oberlaender <matthias.oberlaender at REMOVE.daimlerchrysler.com> 
>> wrote in message news:<bduh36$rgn$1 at news.sns-felb.debis.de>...> I would like  
>> to adopt the cooperation paradigm in conjunction with builtin 
>> > > methods and operators, such as len, iter, +, * etc. 
>> > 
>> > Fine.
>> > 
>> > > But the direct approach does not work with the current implementation of 
>> > > super. For example, 'len(super(Y, y)' will always result in 'len() of 
>> > > unsized object'.
>> > 
>> > Of course, it must give an error! I think you do not understand how 
>> > super works. But don't worry, that's quite common ;)
>> 
>> Oh, wait a minute. I think this "of course" is a bit presumptuous. 
>
>Uhm... I do realize now that what I wrote sounds quite presumptuous
>indeed.
>It was not my intention. The "of course" refers to the current
>implementation
>of ``super`` which does not do what you ask for. To me this was well
>known
>because of recent threads on the subject by Bjorn Pettersen:
>
>http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&frame=right&th=a385e6aa839a9538&seekm=2259b0e2.0304210750.5eaf5df0%40posting.google.com#link1
>
>http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&threadm=2259b0e2.0304300625.4e0ebace%40posting.google.com&rnum=3&prev=/groups%3Fhl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DISO-8859-1%26q%3Dsuper%2Bpettersen%26meta%3Dgroup%253Dcomp.lang.python.*
>
>You see that for sure you are not the only one who is confused about
>``super`` and there are dark corners about it. I myself do not know
>nothing about its
>implementation.
>
>> > 
>> > I think you should re-read the documentation and
>> > google on the newsgroup for 'super'. The use case
>> > for super is in multiple inheritance, as in this example:
>> > 
>> > class B(object):
>> >     def __len__(self):
>> >       print 'called B.__len__'   return 1111
>> >     
>> > class C(B):
>> >   def __len__(self):
>> >       print 'called C.__len__'
>> >       return super(C,self).__len__()
>> 
>> This is exactly the style of syntax I want to avoid! I'd rather write more 
>> concisely 'len(super(C,self))'.  
>
>I see now what's your point, which is the same of Pettersen: why 
>
>>>> class B(object):
>	def __len__(self): return 1111
>>>> class C(B): pass
>...
>>>> c=C()
>>>> super(C,c).__len__()
>1111
>
>works, whereas
>
>>>> len(super(C,c))
>Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "<pyshell#7>", line 1, in ?
>    len(super(C,c))
>TypeError: len() of unsized object
>
>does not work? As you say, the reason is that
>
>> at least in Python 2.2.1, its is 
>> a matter of fact that builtins/special method names are treated differently 
>> from ordinary class methods in conjunction with super objects. Do you agree? 
>> My implementation of super seems to fix this gap. Perhaps there are some 
>> other people who would appreciate that too. Or are there good 
>> logical/conceptual reasons againts it? This is what I would like to know.
>
>BTW, the same is true for Python2.3b2. I always use the longest form
>of ``super``,so this problems does not bother me, nevertheless I
>understand
>your point.
>
>I think you should submit the issue to python-dev; maybe there are
>technical reasons such that it is necessary to treat special methods
>differently and this cannot be avoided. In such a case the
>documentation should report that
>only the long form ``super(C,c).__len__()`` is correct and that users
>should
>not use ``len(super(C,c))`` (idem for other special methods).
>
>I would also submit a bug report on sourceforge, since at the best
>this is
>a documentation bug. It does not seem to have been reported before and
>has
>already bitten at least two persons on c.l.py., therefore it should be
>made
>known to the developers  
>
ISTM (and I don't know super much) that in the above, if you factor out
    x = super(C,c)
and then compare
    len(x)
vs
    x.__len__()

then the results above suggest that implementation is not
    getattr(x,'__len__')()
but effectively more like
    getattr(x.__class__,'__len__')(x)

Note:

 >>> class B(object):
 ...     def __len__(self): return 1111
 ...
 >>> class C(B): pass
 ...
 >>> c=C()
 >>> super(C,c).__len__()
 1111
 >>> len(super(C,c))
 Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
 TypeError: len() of unsized object

Ok, now let's look at c vs x:

 >>> getattr(c,'__len__')()
 1111
 >>> getattr(c.__class__,'__len__')(c)
 1111

vs

 >>> getattr(x,'__len__')()
 1111
 >>> getattr(x.__class__,'__len__')(x)
 Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
 AttributeError: type object 'super' has no attribute '__len__'

I guess generally continuing a failed method lookup in x.__class__.__dict__ or equivalent
and trying to find it as an instance attribute might make this super problem
work, but weren't instance methods intentionally bypassed for the new style?

That would mean solving the problem specifically in super somehow, but how? I guess by
fiddling with lookup of methods of/via super instances? I guess it could be done in C.
I'll have to look in typeobject.c more sometime. It looks already tricky ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From shannon at news.widomaker.com  Sun Jul  6 20:27:41 2003
From: shannon at news.widomaker.com (Charles Shannon Hendrix)
Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2003 20:27:41 -0400
Subject: Collective memory
References: <mailman.1057083728.8224.python-list@python.org> <vg88va53uha8e@corp.supernews.com> <hff5eb.e9h.ln@escape.shannon.net> <3f06af11$0$49113$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl> <3f071e0c.4620472@news.ocis.net> <slrnbggc9a.8s2.ben-public-nospam@bunthorne.i.decadentplace.org.uk>
Message-ID: <tpeaeb.0ec.ln@escape.shannon.net>

In article
<slrnbggc9a.8s2.ben-public-nospam at bunthorne.i.decadentplace.org.uk>, Ben
Hutchings wrote:

> So there is a risk here, and it's probably worth adopting a rule of
> not using tabs in Python code.  If you think a colleague broke the
> rule, the -t flag will alert you to any potential problems.

No, it won't alert you to *any* of them.

Outdented coding accidents to happen, and you have to manually review
the code to see it.  If you just happen to not know what the code was
supposed to have done, you can't fix these kinds of typos.

If you do it by previous and following implied logic, then you might
well get it right... or you might not.

The point is that when white-space determines logical flow, errors in
indentation add and destroy information.

Sure you can overcome it, but I just don't see the point.

I debugged and maintained big Python programs, and it was a frequent
error and problem.


-- 
Ah... you gotta love it when your ISP switches to a SPAMMING newsfeed.
Sigh...



-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----



From usenet2003 at krap.dk  Mon Jul 28 07:35:02 2003
From: usenet2003 at krap.dk (Svenne Krap)
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 13:35:02 +0200
Subject: Readling all input from stdin
In-Reply-To: <VI7Va.40548$Kb2.1696739@news010.worldonline.dk>
References: <VI7Va.40548$Kb2.1696739@news010.worldonline.dk>
Message-ID: <PR7Va.40601$Kb2.1696953@news010.worldonline.dk>

Ohh.. It seems that sys.stdin.readlines is missing on my workstation 
(Win2k) but not on the production server (Linux). Hmm. wierd.... Both 
are version 2.2.2

Svenne Krap wrote:

> Hi.
> 
> I am writing a small script, that is called from an external program 
> (the qmail mailserver), I need to capture all input from stdin before 
> continueing the script ..
> 
> I looked for sys.stdin.readlines() but that is not present. I found 
> sys.stdin.readline(), but how do I loop through it (or rather how do I 
> know, when I am finished with looping ?)
> 
> Thanks in advance
> 
> Svenne
> 




From bockman at virgilio.it  Fri Jul  4 11:10:13 2003
From: bockman at virgilio.it (Francesco Bochicchio)
Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 15:10:13 GMT
Subject: [Dream] A meta-wrapper module to interface any C dynamic library
References: <pan.2003.07.04.10.59.31.477048@virgilio.it> <7k6yh6go.fsf@python.net>
Message-ID: <pan.2003.07.04.15.10.06.37490@virgilio.it>

On Fri, 04 Jul 2003 13:33:27 +0200, Thomas Heller wrote:

> 
> Yes, it already exists (to some degree).
> 
> http://starship.python.net/crew/theller/ctypes/
> 
> Thomas

Thanks for the pointer. Is more or less what I had in mind, and lead me to
find out about libffi, which is also quite interesting.

This proves a theory of mine: whatever piece of software you can think of,
there is always some developer in the world that already did it :-)

Ciao
-----
FB



From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Jul 21 14:32:17 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 14:32:17 -0400
Subject: Voting Project Needs Python People
References: <LDVSa.14955$Mc.1126731@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <3F1C31B1.B44774BA@engcorp.com>

Alan Dechert wrote:
> 
> We are pulling together a great voting modernization projects. [snip]

Is there a word missing in the above?  I can't parse it as-is, but it
looks like it wants the word "many" after the word "great"...

-Peter



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Wed Jul 23 18:11:54 2003
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 18:11:54 -0400
Subject: Shallow vs Deep copies [was Re:  python assignment]
References: <fbf8d8f2.0307221659.1dd1ac77@posting.google.com> <mailman.1058928524.20417.python-list@python.org> <1jr2v-vd.ln1@grendel.myth> <3F1EDFA0.ED78E04F@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <0QydndsfbpO2lYKiU-KYgg@comcast.com>

"Erik Max Francis" <max at alcyone.com> wrote in message
news:3F1EDFA0.ED78E04F at alcyone.com...

> immutable objects need not ever be literally copied

> Shallow copying makes a duplicate of the parent object.  Deep
copying
> makes a duplicate of everything.

To be more exact, because first statement is true,
second_statement.replace('everything', 'all mutables'),
which is to say, 'as much as needed'.

>>> import copy
>>> l1=[(),[]]
>>> l2=copy.deepcopy(l1)
>>> for i in l1+l2: print id(i)
...
7669904
8422784
7669904 #same ()
8428448 #different []

Terry J. Reedy






From srijit at yahoo.com  Mon Jul 14 12:32:42 2003
From: srijit at yahoo.com (srijit at yahoo.com)
Date: 14 Jul 2003 09:32:42 -0700
Subject: (Suggestion) Download Options
Message-ID: <221d8dbe.0307140148.271f87ef@posting.google.com>

Hello,
Can we have a download option for upcoming Python 2.3 without TCL/Tk?
Though I know the extremely popular Tkinter is the default GUI of
Python, I see one immediate advantage of a download option without
TCL/Tk
1) Download size is less and it is a boon for people like me with slow
modem connection.
2) Tkinter with TCL/TK can be a separate add-on

I look forward to opinions from members.

Regards,
Srijit



From tim.one at comcast.net  Sat Jul 12 16:37:37 2003
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 16:37:37 -0400
Subject: The "intellectual property" misnomer
In-Reply-To: <X5idnYY8s7xRyI2iXTWJiA@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCEEAKEOAB.tim.one@comcast.net>

[Terry Reedy]
> In response to a query of mine, someone -- I believe you, Tim -- said
> that CNRI, not PSF, was still attempting to trademark 'Python' as
> applied to computer languages (but having some difficulty).

Yes.

> Last I know, CNRI still has copyrights to Python 1.?-1.6.  So I was a
> bit puzzled as to what Guido meant by his blanket statement.

This has been clarified by several people several times in this thread.  Is
it in need of more clarification?

> Has CNRI (and the Dutch institute before it) renounced its (their)
> 'IP' claims with respect to Python in favor of PSF?

No.  Negotiations on these matters are in progress, though.

> If not, then "The PSF holds the intellectual property rights for
> Python" would not be true as commonly interpreted, at least as by this
> commoner.

That's so, but it's been explained before in this thread.  "The PSF partly
exists to hold the IP rights for Python, holds some now, and is pursuing
transfer of others" is a fuller statement of Guido's intent.

> (But then I know that Guido most definitely ain't a lawyer).

In which case there's not much point picking apart his one-liners as if he
were <wink>.  A lot of info about the PSF can be found on its web site,
including its articles of incorporation, corporate bylaws, mission
statement, minutes of board meetings, and the full text of its (successful)
IRS Form 1023 application:

    http://www.python.org/psf/

People who would rather do something useful <wink> should go straight to
here:

    http://www.python.org/psf/donations.html





From tebeka at cs.bgu.ac.il  Mon Jul  7 03:18:48 2003
From: tebeka at cs.bgu.ac.il (Miki Tebeka)
Date: 7 Jul 2003 00:18:48 -0700
Subject: PDF Parser?
Message-ID: <33803989.0307062318.3695d11@posting.google.com>

Hello All,

I'm looking for a PDF parser.
Any pointers?

10x.
Miki



From news at exultants.org  Fri Jul 25 21:10:11 2003
From: news at exultants.org (Van Gale)
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 01:10:11 GMT
Subject: path module
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1059151446.8466.python-list@python.org>
References: <1057651068.5348.386.camel@lothlorien> <20030708113219.H6906@prim.han.de> <mailman.1057686613.6463.python-list@python.org> <11234c14.0307211016.344d40bc@posting.google.com> <mailman.1059144006.6426.python-list@python.org> <just-8DDA38.17221725072003@news1.news.xs4all.nl> <mailman.1059151446.8466.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <TxkUa.8061$Nh3.45265186@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com>

holger krekel wrote:
> Yes, i think adding platform specific methods to a Path object makes sense.  
> A friend and me started working on (local and subversion) Path 
> implementations last week.  Currently a Path instance provides 
> these "path-taking" methods 
> 
>     open  
>     read
>     write
>     visit  (a recursive walker)
>     listdir
>     stat
>     load/save (unpickle/pickle object)
>     setmtime  (set modification time, uses os.utime)

Interesting, I started a project modifying Jason's Path module to work 
on subversion trees as well.  I didn't get too far before putting the 
project on a back-burner so I'm glad to hear someone else is thinking 
the same way :)

My extensions to Path included an additional argument to "open" that 
included a version number, and a mechanism for retrieving some kind of 
"metadata" associated with the file.

I also made another Path module that implements a "poor mans cms" if 
subversion/rcs/cvs are not available.  It uses hidden files with version 
numbers in the filename to emulate a real version control system.

Van Gale




From grante at visi.com  Tue Jul 22 10:47:31 2003
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 22 Jul 2003 14:47:31 GMT
Subject: Search for a string in binary files
References: <bfhldv$lb$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <mailman.1058840314.10448.python-list@python.org> <bfjf6d$1f3$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <3f1d4e83$0$170$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>

In article <bfjf6d$1f3$1 at solaris.cc.vt.edu>, hokieghal99 wrote:
> Fran?ois Pinard wrote:
>> import glob
>> for name in glob.glob('*.xls'):
>>     if file(name, 'rb').read().find('Microsoft Excel') >= 0:
>>         print "Found in", name
> 
> Thanks for the example guys. One last question: does grep actually open 
> files when it searches them?

Of course.  How could it search a file without opening it?

> And, would it be more efficent (faster) to just call grep from
> python to do the searching?

Perhaps.  Depends on the size/number of the files.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  I want another
                                  at               RE-WRITE on my CEASAR
                               visi.com            SALAD!!



From stephen.boulet at motorola.com  Thu Jul  3 15:52:42 2003
From: stephen.boulet at motorola.com (Stephen Boulet)
Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 14:52:42 -0500
Subject: tkFileDialog without a parent window
Message-ID: <be21e4$trp$1@localhost.localdomain>

I'm using the following code to get a file name:

    import tkFileDialog
    tkFileDialog.askopenfilename(filetypes=[("HDF Files", ".hdf")])

How can I do this without an empty tk window popping up and hanging around 
after the dialog is closed? Thanks.

-- Stephen




From klappnase at freenet.de  Sat Jul 19 21:09:12 2003
From: klappnase at freenet.de (klappnase)
Date: 19 Jul 2003 18:09:12 -0700
Subject: Using PMW?
References: <nLnQa.780$Mc.54185@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <9a410299.0307191709.28fcbdf6@posting.google.com>

"ken" <kericks272 at earthlink.net> wrote in message news:<nLnQa.780$Mc.54185 at newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>...
> Please pardon my ignorance regarding this question, I'm new to Python.
> 
> I'm running Python 2.2.3 (win32) with the latest download of Python
> MegaWidgets 1.1.  I'm attempting to run the demos but get the following:
> 
> C:\Python22\Pmw\demos>python all.py
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "all.py", line 84, in ?
>     DemoVersion.setPmwVersion()
>   File "DemoVersion.py", line 32, in setPmwVersion
>     if version in Pmw.installedversions():
> AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'installedversions'
> 
> C:\Python22\Pmw\demos>python colors.py
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "colors.py", line 44, in ?
>     Pmw.initialise(root, fontScheme = 'pmw1')
> AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'initialise'
> 
> Is this a problem with the libray not being found?  I've read the docs with
> the widgets and it seems to be straight forward.  I'm hoping someone has the
> answer.
> 
> TIA

Hi,
looks like the library has obviousliy been found ("'module' object has
no attribute 'initialise'"). May be your downloaded files are broken?
 Cheers,

michael



From noah at noah.org  Sat Jul 12 12:47:44 2003
From: noah at noah.org (Noah)
Date: 12 Jul 2003 09:47:44 -0700
Subject: How do I have a client shutdown a win32 COM server?
Message-ID: <c9d82136.0307120847.4fdd12fa@posting.google.com>

Hi,

How do I shutdown a win32 COM server?

I am scripting Adobe Illustrator through its COM interface.
The problem is that Illustrator has memory leaks.
And after a few hours of running, Illustrator will start to behave
oddly
until eventually it refuses the create new COM objects.
The solution is to close Illustrator and then restart it.
This is easy if I'm sitting at my desk and can see that it has
crashed.
What I'd like to do is have the client restart the server every 10
minutes
(or when it sees a specific exception).

A COM client will automatically start the COM server if it is 
not already running, but I don't know how to shutdown a COM server 
that is already running.

So, how do you bounce a COM server? 
If anyone has any hints I would appreciate it.

P.S. Note, that I'm pretty sure it's not the client leaking memory
because
if I shutdown the client and restart it with the same Illustrator COM
server
running it will immediately have the same problem. The COM error I get
is an "internal error" exception:
    com_error: (-2147352567, 'Exception occurred.', (0, None, 'an
internal error occurred: PARM', None, 0, -2147352577), None)

Yours,
Noah



From hokiegal99 at hotmail.com  Wed Jul 23 16:29:45 2003
From: hokiegal99 at hotmail.com (hokieghal99)
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 16:29:45 -0400
Subject: lists and files question
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1058965656.21694.python-list@python.org>
References: <3F1DCF52.7040607@hotmail.com> <mailman.1058965656.21694.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bfmr7p$kce$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>

Thanks to everyone for the feedback on this. I've learned a lot from you 
guys.

John Hunter wrote:
> Others have already answered your question - I just want to point out
> a few of other things
> 
>     import os, re, string
>     setpath = raw_input("Enter the path: ")
>     for root, dirs, files in os.walk(setpath):
>     	id = re.compile('Microsoft Excel Worksheet')
> 
> 1) id is a built in function; you may not want to override it with
>    your variable name
> 
>    >>> x = 1
>    >>> id(x)
>    135313208
> 
> 2) The reason to use re.compile is for efficiency.  There is no need
>    to call it inside the loop, since you're just recompiling the same
>    regex over and over again.  Instead, compile the regex outside the
>    loop
> 
>     >>> rgx = re.compile('[A-Z]+')
>     >>> for some_text in some_list:
>     ...     m = rgx.match(some_text)
> 
> 3) If you want to match 'Microsoft Excel Worksheet', you don't need
>    regular expressions since this is a string literal.  You will
>    probably be better off just using the string find method, as in
> 
>    s.find('Microsoft Excel Worksheet')
> 
> 4) You may want to look at the path module, which provides a nice
>    interface for walking over files:
>    http://www.jorendorff.com/articles/python/path/
> 
>     >>> from path import path
>     >>> xldir = path(setpath)
>     >>> for f in xldir.files('*.xls'):
>     ...     print f.read().find('Microsoft Excel Worksheet')
> 
> Cheers,
> John Hunter
> 




From mis6 at pitt.edu  Tue Jul 22 22:11:41 2003
From: mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato)
Date: 22 Jul 2003 19:11:41 -0700
Subject: feature request: a better str.endswith
References: <2259b0e2.0307180401.5dae02f2@posting.google.com> <mailman.1058530829.7072.python-list@python.org> <3f17f883$0$49107$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl> <2259b0e2.0307190529.57338b3f@posting.google.com> <NpkSa.16049$7O.14695@nwrdny01.gnilink.net> <2259b0e2.0307200721.16ef2ea1@posting.google.com> <45228044.0307210522.1ef95144@posting.google.com> <2259b0e2.0307210918.614892ba@posting.google.com> <bfi4ir$t21$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <2259b0e2.0307221611.27e2535e@posting.google.com>

bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) wrote in message news:<bfi4ir$t21$0 at 216.39.172.122>...
> I think I'd prefer
> 
>   if any_true(filename.endswith, ('.jpg','.jpeg','.gif','.png')):
>      dosomething()
> 
> I suspect it will more often make sense read aloud in the general
> 
>   if any_true(pred, seq):
> 
> than
> 
>   if the(pred, seq)
> 
> I guess the full set of functions might be
> any_true, any_false, all_true, and all_false.
> 
> or maybe someone can think of better short phrase?
> 
> Regards,
> Bengt Richter

I think in the specific case I was talking about "the" was quite
readable; however I agree that in the general case "any_true" etc.
would be better.
I would not be opposed to add these convenience functions in
itertools. The
advantage is standardization (i.e. I don't have to invent my own name,
different from the name chosen by anybody else), the disadvantage is 
more things to learn; however, with such descriptive names, it would
be
difficult to not grasp what those functions are doing, even without
looking at the documentation. Anyway, I am sure many will be opposed, 
saying that such functions are so simple that they do not deserve to
be
in the library. This would be a sensible opinion, BTW.


          Michele



From kamikaze at kuoi.asui.uidaho.edu  Sat Jul 26 06:33:57 2003
From: kamikaze at kuoi.asui.uidaho.edu (Mark 'Kamikaze' Hughes)
Date: 26 Jul 2003 10:33:57 GMT
Subject: Confusing automated translators.
References: <37d6f77c.0307130932.1e3adf0d@posting.google.com> <3f11ac74$0$49101$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl> <ad052e5c.0307131718.4903430d@posting.google.com> <3F12808B.E53193B8@hotmail.com> <87brvw3ula.fsf@pobox.com> <oqbrvvhnqm.fsf@alcyon.progiciels-bpi.ca> <mailman.1058280328.24828.python-list@python.org> <sa4chv4rfqg93306db3a44214vcrummq7p@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <slrnbi4m8l.aqv.kamikaze@kuoi.asui.uidaho.edu>

 Jack Diederich <jack at performancedrivers.com> wrote:
>My favorite example is comifying a list.
>"1, 2, and 3" vs "1, 2 and 3" (journalist seem to prefer the later)
>"I dedicate this book to my parents, Jane, and God."
>"I dedicate this book to my parents, Jane and God."

  The canonical joke example is:
"This book is dedicated to my parents, Ayn Rand and God."

-- 
 <a href="http://kuoi.asui.uidaho.edu/~kamikaze/"> Mark Hughes </a>
"The computer is incredibly fast, accurate, and stupid.
 Man is unbelievably slow, inaccurate, and brilliant.
 The marriage of the two is a force beyond calculation." -Leo Cherne



From maxm at mxm.dk  Sun Jul 13 09:39:23 2003
From: maxm at mxm.dk (Max M)
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 15:39:23 +0200
Subject: mailbox_reader 1.0.2 -- Python module to read UNIX mailboxes
 sequentially.
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1058090959.10232.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1058008218.28808.python-list@python.org> <bepqgn$fkc$1@slb9.atl.mindspring.net> <mailman.1058090959.10232.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3F11610B.5090200@mxm.dk>

Grzegorz Adam Hankiewicz wrote:


> * personal fulfillment, I enjoy rewritting wheels.


It is often asked why one should re-invent the wheel. Personally I am 
glad that somebody did.

My Nissan would drive terribly with two woodne logs, or stone wheels, 
instead of the current set of rubber tires.

Also I don't think that Pirelli, Firestone etc. find it such a bad idea 
to keep reinventing the wheel.


regards Max M




From usenetNO at SPAMexperimentzero.org  Wed Jul  9 15:29:35 2003
From: usenetNO at SPAMexperimentzero.org (Abe Frohnman)
Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 19:29:35 GMT
Subject: check if dir exists
In-Reply-To: <pan.2003.07.09.19.01.24.826622@sdf-eu.org>
References: <pan.2003.07.09.19.01.24.826622@sdf-eu.org>
Message-ID: <3F0C6D1E.6030406@SPAMexperimentzero.org>

Geiregat Jonas wrote:

> How can I check if a dir exists ?

The os.path library has just what you're looking for. Use 
os.path.exists, like so:


#!/usr/bin/python

import os.path

pathToFind = "/usr/bin/local"

if os.path.exists(pathToFind):
         print "Path exists."
else:
         print "Path does not exist."


~AF




From Ian.Sparks at etrials.com  Thu Jul  3 14:31:34 2003
From: Ian.Sparks at etrials.com (Ian Sparks)
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 14:31:34 -0400
Subject: Python is a gem, you need to keep pushing it ....
Message-ID: <41A1CBC76FDECC42B67946519C6677A9A20BBA@pippin.int.etrials.com>

Thomas Weholt wrote :
>Especially coders using compiled languages like Delphi/Pascal. They know some VB or
>Perl and laugh when I bring up Python. But don't loose faith.

Speaking as someone who uses Python and Delphi daily I have to say I don't laugh when someone brings up Python though I admit its hard to get Delphi developers to look at Python at all. 

On the other hand, I don't take Dave's comment that he would rather be using Python and Emacs to the (really excellent) Delphi IDE too seriously either. OTOH maybe Dave actually feels this way but there are good reasons not to :

For Windows GUI apps Delphi has a great screen-builder and a collection of 3rd party component (many freeware) that puts Tk/Swing/wxWindows/QT/GTK/everything else available to Python to shame.

Outside of that space (Linux, Mac) and for non-gui apps the benefit of Delphi is less-clear especially since Python comes with "batteries included" but Delphi still has a superb debugger, model driven development and a collection of great tools built into the IDE.

You should also be aware of PythonForDelphi and COM - techniques that can be used to wrap a Delphi GUI around a Python engine - possibly the best of both worlds! 

Python *is* great but lets not pretend that its a good fit for every problem.

-----Original Message-----
From: Thomas Weholt [mailto:2002 at weholt.org]
Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2003 1:18 PM
To: python-list at python.org
Subject: Re: Python is a gem, you need to keep pushing it ....


I've been a hardcore python evangelist for 4-5 years, but in my experience
most developers are conservative when it comes to programming languages.
They tend to stick to what they know and avoid everything else. Especially
coders using compiled languages like Delphi/Pascal. They know some VB or
Perl and laugh when I bring up Python. But don't loose faith.

Thomas

"delphiro" <delphiro at zonnet.nl> wrote in message
news:mailman.1057242668.12614.python-list at python.org...
> Same story here,
>
> My company primarily uses Delphi (Object Pascal) which is actualy a nice
development language / IDE but with linux as a rising star and Kylix as a
nasty and not-so-friendly-and-platform-indepandent Delphi-clone we have
decided to use Python for a number of small projects. As a python addict I
really hope this works out! No offence, but I'd rather be using Emacs and
Python than the Delphi IDE. It is so much more fun and it runs on Linux
*and* Windows (ok and more.. but those are our target OS'es).
>
> We now have a team of 4 Python addicts trying to convince our bosses and
the 30+ Delphi developers. I realy hope this works out :-)
>
> Regards,
> Rob
>
> --
> [-------------delphiro-------------]
> [-- http://pyciv.sourceforge.net --]
> [----------------------------------]
>


-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list




From Simon.Wittber at perth.maptek.com.au  Thu Jul 10 20:46:48 2003
From: Simon.Wittber at perth.maptek.com.au (Simon Wittber (Maptek))
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 08:46:48 +0800
Subject: Embedding Python, threading and scalability
Message-ID: <20E0F651F8B82F45ABCBACC58A2D995B0518B0@mexper1>

[snip]
>...the way to scale Python in a threaded environment is to call out to
a C >extension that releases the GIL.
[snip]

To write scalable applications in Python, one must write the
'scalabilty-required' parts n C.

Does anyone else see this as a problem?

Sw.





From jar at mminternet.com  Sun Jul 27 11:13:46 2003
From: jar at mminternet.com (james roush)
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 08:13:46 -0700
Subject: mxTidy
Message-ID: <MPG.198d8c02be8f5a249896b9@news.mminternet.com>

What versions of Python will mxTidy work with.  I'm using it with Python 
v2.1.x but want to upgrade to 2.3 when it is released

Are there any alternatives to mxTidy?

-----------------------
James A Roush
jar @ mminternet.com
-----------------------



From Ken at perfect-image.com  Tue Jul  1 16:33:34 2003
From: Ken at perfect-image.com (Kenneth Godee)
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 13:33:34 -0700
Subject: PyQT and Mandrake 9.1
In-Reply-To: <bdrsbq$2a8d$1@biggoron.nerim.net>
References: <bdrsbq$2a8d$1@biggoron.nerim.net>
Message-ID: <20030701133334.5a859636.Ken@perfect-image.com>

> I've been very excited by PyQT evangelists. But I'm stuck installing this
> (SIP + PyQT) on my new Mandrake 9.1. (Python 2.2.2)
> I downloaded SIP + PyQT from their latest address...
> 
> http://www.riverbankcomputing.co.uk/
> 
> Then the SIP builder (build.py) asks for the path to QT header files. I
> didn't find them in the classical /usr/include, nor "locate" did find
> anything like "qt*.h" and there is no qt-develxx.rpm "like" in the 3
> Mandrake CDs.
> 
> Did I miss something ?
> 
> Thanks in advance.
> 
> --Gilles

The only thing you missed, is posting to the right list!
Join and post at....

http://www.riverbankcomputing.co.uk/pyqt/mailinglist.php

Between PyQt's widget set and docs, QT's ide Designer and eric3 interactive debugger
good luck trying to find anything that matches it!

If Trolltech ever go's out of business (doubtful), well I guess I'll have to switch to
a different gui.













From adechert at earthlink.net  Sun Jul 27 14:15:15 2003
From: adechert at earthlink.net (Alan Dechert)
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 18:15:15 GMT
Subject: Voting Project Needs Python People
References: <LDVSa.14955$Mc.1126731@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <bfhhgq$5lu$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net> <xqx7k6b36r8.fsf@cola2.ca.boeing.com> <jk_Sa.113364$Io.9707082@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <7x65lv31hf.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <z8%Sa.113480$Io.9712518@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <xqxsmoyitto.fsf@cola2.ca.boeing.com> <3jhTa.115229$Io.9825106@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <bfkch9$is4$1@slb4.atl.mindspring.net> <w2BTa.116465$Io.9943199@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <2dc49b63.0307240824.4e1b2136@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <TEUUa.23927$Mc.1868971@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>

"Ian Smith" <iandjmsmith at aol.com> wrote in message
news:2dc49b63.0307240824.4e1b2136 at posting.google.com...


> There's a lot of assumed knowledge in this discussion. I know nothing
> about electronic voting systems, I know almost nothing about Python as
> a programming language but I do know how to calculate values
> associated with the cumulative binomial distribution. A Javascript
> (sorry!) calculator for the binomial distribution amongst others can
> be found at http://members.aol.com/iandjmsmith/EXAMPLES.HTM.
> Javascript can be converted to Java, C etc quite easily. I would
> imagine with my lack of knowledge of Python you'll probably be better
> off doing the conversion yourself.
>
> The code is quick and accurate and can handle large sample sizes and
> very small probabilities which you probably need. There's even a
> calculator for the Hypergeometric distribution should you wish to do
> sampling without replacement calculations.
>
>
> Ian Smith
>
> P.S. the calculation of 70 is fine. If you don't want to calculate
> anything much more difficult then you probably don't need a calculator
> anyway.
>
Thanks, Ian.  I could not quite figure out if your binomial distribution
calculator would be applicable.

Here's what Bill Buck ( billbuck at cox.net ) sent me.  It turns out there is a
BINOMDIST function in Excel.  I think it might be what I want.

http://home.earthlink.net/~adechert/LOTAcceptanceCalculator.xls

Let me try to clarify what I'm after.  The paper record should always match
the electronic record.  So the allowable defects is zero.  If there is a
mismatch found in the sample, we don't publish the electronic tally: we take
all the paper ballots and check them.

We are talking about an election conducted with computer-generated paper
ballots.  The paper ballots represent the actual vote since these ballots
are what voters actually saw, verified, and cast.  We will have an
electronic record obtained from the computers which should match each paper
ballot generated.  We want to use the electronic record since it will give
us an instant result -- but we have to check it against the paper ballots to
be sure the election result is correct.  So, in this scenario, the
electronic count is a prediction (or preliminary tally).

So, if by the preliminary electronic tally a candidate won a race by 1
percent, I want to know how many ballots we have to check (random sample) to
be certain that the result predicted is true.

When I put one million into this Confidence Level Calculator, and Acceptable
Quality Level of .01, a sample of 10,000 shows a confidence level of "1."  A
sample of 2000 give C.L of 0.999999998  Presumably, "1" is really
.9999999999+ more 9s.  Can we get more decimal places?

So I guess the Lot Fraction Defective is analgous to the predicted victory
margin.  Is that right?

I would still like a standalone calculator that doesn't require Excel.

Alan Dechert





From fpetermaas at netscape.net  Fri Jul 18 05:18:06 2003
From: fpetermaas at netscape.net (Peter Maas)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 11:18:06 +0200
Subject: web frameworks and authentication
Message-ID: <bf8dtt$p8m$1@swifty.westend.com>

I plan to move existing web applications (written in php, asp, ...)
to python. An important issue for some customers is to avoid multiple
definition and maintenance of user account data. Are there web frame-
works (besides Zope) that support pam or can even use a winnt/2000/xp
authentication service?

Thanks for your help.

Mit freundlichen Gruessen,

Peter Maas

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Peter Maas, M+R Infosysteme, D-52070 Aachen, Hubert-Wienen-Str. 24
Tel +49-241-93878-0 Fax +49-241-93878-20 eMail peter.maas at mplusr.de
-------------------------------------------------------------------




From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Jul 14 17:23:53 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 17:23:53 -0400
Subject: Volunteers need more visibility (was Re: www.python.org hacked?)
References: <5cf68ce0.0307141017.1f3fe18e@posting.google.com> <3F12FA18.B04B400E@engcorp.com> <bev3dj$f15$1@panix2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <3F131F69.8FD9B8DD@engcorp.com>

Aahz wrote:
> 
> In article <3F12FA18.B04B400E at engcorp.com>,
> Peter Hansen  <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:
> >
> >Have we been hacked, or is this human error during maintenance?
> 
> Yes to both.  :-(  We were actually hacked a while ago, then failed to
> do a complete cleanup.  When we got the disk full problem, I attempted
> to update the main page so people would know what was going on; I
> thought that vi was capable of managing the re-write inplace.  I was
> wrong.  We're back on the air, with special thanks to Thomas Wouters for
> interrupting his post-OSCON snooze.

Thanks then to Aahz, Skip, Thomas, and anyone else involved.  I think we
should find a place to give more visible credit to the many people
involved in handling with such things.  I had no idea so many people
who regularly contribute here were also the ones who step in to resolve
such problems, or who manage the day-to-day updates and additions.  
And obviously this is a very distributed effort, unless you all happen
to be roommates. ;-)

To add to the workload then :-), but also perhaps to help inspire 
additional people to volunteer and share the load, I suggest adding a 
reasonably prominent page to www.python.org with a quick summary of who 
helps run the site, or other community efforts, and perhaps something
like a one-sentence bio to give a bit more of a face to some of the
lesser known folks.

Or did I just overlook an existing such page?

-Peter



From bignose-hates-spam at and-benfinney-does-too.id.au  Wed Jul 23 23:45:03 2003
From: bignose-hates-spam at and-benfinney-does-too.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: 24 Jul 2003 13:35:03 +0950
Subject: Help writing to file
References: <XrITa.96700$hV.7381037@twister.austin.rr.com>
Message-ID: <slrnbhumnf.13c.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>

On Thu, 24 Jul 2003 03:33:11 GMT, Stan Cook wrote:
> I'm trying to have my program write to a log file.  I have the idea,
> but I'm getting an error and don't understand why.
> 
> File "D:\AetInstall\aet.py", line 201, in load_progs
>     _log.write(string.ljust( _serv, 25))
> AttributeError: 'str' object has no attribute 'write'

Seems fairly self-explanatory.  You're invoking the 'write' attribute on
an object of type 'str', which has no such attribute.

Likely you've unintentionally assigned a string value to _log at some
point earlier in the code.

-- 
 \     "Demagogue: One who preaches doctrines he knows to be untrue to |
  `\                  men he knows to be idiots."  -- Henry L. Mencken |
_o__)                                                                  |
http://bignose.squidly.org/ 9CFE12B0 791A4267 887F520C B7AC2E51 BD41714B



From ebolonev at rol.ru  Thu Jul  3 06:38:04 2003
From: ebolonev at rol.ru (Egor Bolonev)
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 21:38:04 +1100
Subject: A story about Python... sort of
References: <3f03f430$0$97222$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
Message-ID: <be113n$jjb$1@news.rol.ru>

Hello, Max!
You wrote  on Thu, 03 Jul 2003 11:17:30 +0200:

 MM> There is a story today on Slashdot

[Sorry, skipped] 

 MM> And guess which language it is?

InterEnglish?

With best regards, Egor Bolonev.  E-mail: ebolonev at rol.ru [ru eo en]




From jarausch at igpm.rwth-aachen.de  Tue Jul 15 04:54:15 2003
From: jarausch at igpm.rwth-aachen.de (Helmut Jarausch)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 10:54:15 +0200
Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re=3A_Python_Mystery_Theatre_--_Episode?=
 =?ISO-8859-1?Q?_2=3A__As=ED_Fue?=
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1058217683.17386.python-list@python.org>
References: <VorQa.15236$Kw1.587@nwrdny02.gnilink.net> <3F130ED4.2030804@skynet.be> <mailman.1058217683.17386.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3F13C137.6090705@igpm.rwth-aachen.de>

Fredrik Lundh wrote:
> Helmut Jarausch wrote:
> 
> 
>>OK, I believe to know why the last line
>>print '3' three times, since only a reference
>>to 'f' is stored within the lambda expression
>>and this has the value 'thrice' when 'print'
>>is executed.
>>
>>But how can I achieve something like an
>>evaluation of one indirection so that
>>a reference to the function referenced by 'f'
>>is stored instead.
> 
> 
> assuming you meant "the function reference by 'f' when the lambda
> is created", the easiest solution is to use default argument binding:
> 
>     flam = [lambda x,f=f: f(x) for f in funcs]
> 
> the "f=f" construct will bind the inner name "f" to the current value of
> the outer "f" for each lambda.
> 
> the nested scopes mechanism is often introduced as the "right way" to
> do what was done with argument binding in earlier versions of Python.
> however, nested scopes bind *names*, while argument binding binds
> *values*.

Many thanks for that hint,
still a part of the question remains (unclear to me)

Obviously Python allows references to references, since
e.g. 'once' (the 'name' of a function) is a reference to
the code and 'f' is a reference to that reference. (you call it
name binding)
A similar situation arises in Maple and there one has the choice
to either derefence all references down to the real object
or to just derefence a single time.

Example

def once(x): return x
def twice(x): return 2*x
ref= once
def caller():
     callee=ref   # (*)
     print callee(1)

caller()  # prints 1
ref= twice
caller()  # prints 2  so that demonstrates name binding

how can I get the current value (like 'xdef' in TeX)
of 'ref' in the assignment (*) above, so that
'callee' becomes an (immutable) reference to 'once' ?

Thanks for your patience,

Helmut.

-- 
Helmut Jarausch

Lehrstuhl fuer Numerische Mathematik
RWTH - Aachen University
D 52056 Aachen, Germany




From mwh at python.net  Thu Jul 24 05:12:55 2003
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 09:12:55 GMT
Subject: How to link a C extension module on Mac OS X?
References: <ef08387c.0307230528.441883e1@posting.google.com> <mailman.1058972255.22070.python-list@python.org> <bfnu36$gptcg$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de> <mailman.1059034791.1817.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7h31xwgthve.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

Gerhard H?ring <gh at ghaering.de> writes:

> Greg Ewing (using news.cis.dfn.de) wrote:
> > Gerhard H?ring wrote:
> > 
> >> Two words: Use distutils.
> > And it turns out that, rather unintuitively, the way distutils
> > does it is that it *doesn't* try to create a dynamic library,
> > just an ordinary object file named with a .so suffix...
> 
> Does that mean that distutils doesn't work on OS X?

It works.  Don't know why, mind -- the files end .so when shared
libraries usually end .dylib on OS X -- but it does.

Cheers,
mwh

-- 
  GAG: I think this is perfectly normal behaviour for a Vogon. ...
VOGON: That is exactly what you always say.
  GAG: Well, I think that is probably perfectly normal behaviour for a
      psychiatrist. -- The Hitch-Hikers Guide to the Galaxy, Episode 9



From bokr at oz.net  Thu Jul 31 14:55:40 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 31 Jul 2003 18:55:40 GMT
Subject: RELEASED Python 2.3 (final)
References: <mailman.1059523523.23534.python-list@python.org> <3f27bacd$0$49113$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl> <c76ff6fc.0307301323.62f3ccd6@posting.google.com> <bg9hgu$k31$1@panix2.panix.com> <38ec68a6.0307301828.7310e01b@posting.google.com> <Ol%Va.2860$cI2.2543@nwrdny01.gnilink.net> <3F28EA71.6A863E7@hotmail.com> <gryZ9MBVjPK$EwDP@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <bgbonc$cgb$0@216.39.172.122>

On Thu, 31 Jul 2003 12:09:09 +0100, Robin Becker <robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:

>I've been testing reportlab with 2.3 and although it's a lot faster I
>get some ominous warnings and complaints from the future.
>
>1) SyntaxWarning: assignment to None
>   eg for None, name in colorNamePairs:
>   what is the preferred way to do this nowadays? It's fairly
>   trivial to go through and change these to for notUsed, x in ....
>   but is there a nicer way.
I don't know of one, but sometimes I've wanted a way to filter sequence unpacking, e.g,
       a,*,c = 1,2,3 # <=> a=1; c=3
and maybe letting ** in the tail position mean dump the rest.


>2) FutureWarning: hex/oct constants > sys.maxint will return positive  
>   values in Python 2.4 and up
>   eg self.assertEquals(ttf.read_ulong(), 0x81020304) # big-endian
>   Is there no way to preserve the clarity of the above in future?
>   We have quite a lot of code that deals with low level binary 
>   formatted stuff. Changing will move it further away from the
>   original C definitions.

How about just defining a C integer class that works as desired?
You could do it in C ;-)

>
>   The same applies to
>
>   FutureWarning: x<<y losing bits or changing sign will return a long 
>   in Python 2.4 and up
>   eg sum = (hi << 16) | (lo & 0xFFFF)
>
>   Is Python moving away from the machinery? Are there efficient
>   recipes for doing these 32 bit operations? Certainly cut and
>   paste to and from java/c/c++ will be a lot harder.
>
IWT a C extension could be quite efficient. The question would be how
to minimize the editing for cut/pasted stuff. Mostly I guess it would
be wrapping C literals so x = 0x80000000 becomes x = Cint('0x80000000') or such.

>Apart from these minor troubles seems pretty solid.
Sounds good.

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl  Sat Jul  5 13:39:19 2003
From: irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Sat, 05 Jul 2003 19:39:19 +0200
Subject: How to get CGI request-URL
In-Reply-To: <HBF.20030705h0cj@bombur.uio.no>
References: <HBF.20030704ty6d@bombur.uio.no> <HBF.20030705h0cj@bombur.uio.no>
Message-ID: <3f070d44$0$49099$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

Hallvard B Furuseth wrote:
> Thanks for the answers.
> 

Glad to be of assistance, but you didn't tell us what the
actual solution to your problem was... It is always a good idea
to do so because others that have the same problem, and
reading the thread, can immediately benefit :-)

--Irmen




From enrique.palomo at xgs-spain.com  Mon Jul 21 05:11:59 2003
From: enrique.palomo at xgs-spain.com (Enrique Palomo)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 11:11:59 +0200
Subject: listening com ports
Message-ID: <JDEKKDEMBBBHMNJHHAHCMEOACGAA.enrique.palomo@xgs-spain.com>

hello all!!

can anyone tell me what must i use to listen the com1 and com2 ports and
write  it to file??

Thanks

enrique (Madrid)
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From robert.pollak at gmx.net  Wed Jul  2 10:28:07 2003
From: robert.pollak at gmx.net (Robert Pollak)
Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 16:28:07 +0200
Subject: Mozilla relicensing: Help wanted - Python hacker
Message-ID: <3F02EBF7.30706@gmx.net>

Let me please point you to 
<http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=bdsv9b%247t81%40ripley.netscape.com&output=gplain>, 
where Gervase Markham from mozilla.org asks for some scripting help.

--Robert





From sNO_SPAMpinard at zoominternet.net  Mon Jul 14 20:08:12 2003
From: sNO_SPAMpinard at zoominternet.net (Steve Pinard)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 20:08:12 -0400
Subject: Which Python Book
References: <3F134200.8060708@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <3f134613_6@corp.newsgroups.com>

I have not looked at the Python Cookbook, but I'm reading the Nutshell book
now (being new to Python myself).  The Nutshell book appears to be an
excellent reference that you might want to have on your bookshelf.  However,
as a learning resource, I wouldn't recommend it.  I believe it falls into
the "Greek" category.  It delves into how Python does what it does, and that
can be very enlightening.  It is not necessary, however, to learn and start
using the language.

Having said that, there are a couple of FREE resources that I would
recommend for learning the language.
1)  The Python Tutorial, which comes with the Python download itself, or can
be accessed online at www.python.org
2)  Dive Into Python (www.diveintopython.org).  Mark Pilgrim does an
excellent job of showing real working code, then picking apart a line at a
time to show what's going on.  Perhaps the best part is extensive
cross-reference for further reading.  I particularly like this style of
teaching.

Now, having said that, the combination of the free stuff with the Nutshell
book might just a unbeatable.

(Whew)

HTH.




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From tdelaney at avaya.com  Sun Jul 20 21:57:13 2003
From: tdelaney at avaya.com (Delaney, Timothy C (Timothy))
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 11:57:13 +1000
Subject: [Python-Dev] Python Coding Tools
Message-ID: <338366A6D2E2CA4C9DAEAE652E12A1DE8D40D3@au3010avexu1.global.avaya.com>

> From: Aki Kubota [mailto:akubota at ntsp.nec.co.jp]
>
> Im new to this mailing list. And Im interested in Python tools.
> Stuff you use to make coding easier. like Eclipse for Java.

This is not appropriate for Python-Dev, which is for discussion of the development *of* Python, not development *with* python.

I have copied your message to the appropriate list - python-list.

Tim Delaney




From gh at ghaering.de  Tue Jul 15 05:04:36 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 11:04:36 +0200
Subject: how to compile python program to linux executable
In-Reply-To: <3F13BFF1.2000604@is.lg.ua>
References: <3F13BFF1.2000604@is.lg.ua>
Message-ID: <3F13C3A4.8050908@ghaering.de>

Ruslan Spivak wrote:
> Hello.
> 
> Is it possible to convert python program to linux executable program? [...]

You can make an executable that contains both your Python script and 
modules and the interpreter runtime. It's called 'freezing'. The utility 
for this is in the Python source distribution. There's also Gordon 
McMillan's Installer that makes the process easier. He offers Linux and 
Windows versions.

Why would you want to do that? There's almost certainly a better 
solution for your problem, *if* there is any problem in the first place.

-- Gerhard




From eger at cc.gatech.edu  Fri Jul 11 09:55:52 2003
From: eger at cc.gatech.edu (David Eger)
Date: 11 Jul 2003 13:55:52 GMT
Subject: segfault dup'ing string through C++ (via swig) module
Message-ID: <bemfl8$5ch$1@solaria.cc.gatech.edu>

I'm trying to make a very simple extension which will return a new copy
of a C++ string object to python, and I'm segfaulting in the process.
I'm using Python 2.2.2, SWIG 1.3.17 and g++ 3.3.  
Am I getting something very basic wrong?  See code below.

-David


/* file: dups.cxx */
#include "dups.h"
string * dupstring(string s) {return new string(s);}


/* file: dups.h */
#ifndef __DUPS_H__
#define __DUPS_H__

#include <string>
using namespace std;
string * dupstring(string s);

#endif


/* file: dups.i */
%module dups

%{
#include "dups.h"
%}

/* Convert from C++ --> Python */
%typemap(out) string {
  $result = PyString_FromString($1.c_str());
}

/* Convert from Python --> C++ */
%typemap(in) string {
    $1 = PyString_AsString($result);
}

string * dupstring(string);


/* file: makefile */

CFLAGS = -gstabs+ -O3 -fpic 

_dups.so: dups.o dups_wrap.o
	g++ -shared -o $@ $?

%.o: %.cpp
	g++ -c $(CFLAGS) -o $@ $?

%.o: %.cxx
	g++ -I/usr/include/python2.2 -c $(CFLAGS) -o $@ $?

%_wrap.cxx: %.i
	swig -c++ -python $?

clean:
	rm -f *.o dups_wrap.* *.so dups.py dups.pyc



/* file: session_crash */

Python 2.2.2 (#1, Mar 21 2003, 23:40:29) 
[GCC 3.2.3 20030316 (Debian prerelease)] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import dups
>>> a = dups.dupstring("foo")
Program received signal SIGSEGV, Segmentation fault.
[Switching to Thread 16384 (LWP 22607)]
0x0fcc87ec in strlen () from //lib/libc.so.6
(gdb) bt
#0  0x0fcc87ec in strlen () from //lib/libc.so.6
#1  0x0fb41324 in _wrap_dupstring (self=0x0, args=0x0)
    at /usr/include/c++/3.3/bits/char_traits.h:143
#2  0x100ba9e8 in PyCFunction_Call ()
#3  0x1003c000 in Py_MakePendingCalls ()
#4  0x1003cd4c in PyEval_EvalCodeEx ()
#5  0x1003fdcc in PyEval_EvalCode ()
#6  0x1006cd34 in PyRun_FileExFlags ()
#7  0x1006c19c in PyRun_InteractiveOneFlags ()
#8  0x1006bf1c in PyRun_InteractiveLoopFlags ()
#9  0x1006d984 in PyRun_AnyFileExFlags ()
#10 0x1000c4c8 in Py_Main ()
#11 0x1000bf28 in main ()
#12 0x0fc62da4 in __libc_start_main (argc=1, ubp_av=0x7ffff9f4, ubp_ev=0x0, auxvec=0x7ffffa5c, 
    rtld_fini=0x30026b38 <_rtld_local>, stinfo=0x1000bf18, stack_on_entry=0x7ffff9e0)
    at ../sysdeps/powerpc/elf/libc-start.c:186
(gdb) 




From guettler at thomas-guettler.de  Mon Jul 21 10:50:19 2003
From: guettler at thomas-guettler.de (Thomas =?ISO-8859-15?Q?G=FCttler?=)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 16:50:19 +0200
Subject: Directory Structure for Distutils
References: <bfgc58$edkhi$1@ID-63505.news.uni-berlin.de> <bfghi3$dqlq7$1@ID-63505.news.uni-berlin.de> <m3k7ac81sh.fsf@pochtamt.ru>
Message-ID: <bfgujc$eo3o2$1@ID-63505.news.uni-berlin.de>

Peter Klyushkin wrote:

> Hello, Thomas!
> 
>>>>>> "TG" == Thomas G?ttler writes:
> 
>  TG> Thomas G?ttler wrote:
>>> Hi!
>>> 
>>> What is the best directory structure for python modules?
>>> 
>  TG> One thing is still unclear: How can I copy non python files into
>  TG> the destination?  There is a directory called "gif" which needs
>  TG> to be in the directory of the my module.
> 
> Take a look at ResourcePackage.  It isn't exactly what you want but it
> is exactly for your purpose.

Hi Peter,

Thank you for this link, but I don't want the images to become
python source.

Still looking for a solution ...

 thomas





From g2h5dqi002 at sneakemail.com  Mon Jul 28 21:38:39 2003
From: g2h5dqi002 at sneakemail.com (Greg Ewing (using news.cis.dfn.de))
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 13:38:39 +1200
Subject: Static typing
In-Reply-To: <5627c6fa.0307270537.1afc94d3@posting.google.com>
References: <LvdUa.905$DU.696@fe12.atl2.webusenet.com> <3f218ef1$0$27926$626a54ce@news.free.fr> <3f219c8d$1@nntp0.pdx.net> <lWAUa.25680$Gw4.21886@fe06.atl2.webusenet.com> <3f23ae06$0$21093$626a54ce@news.free.fr> <5627c6fa.0307270537.1afc94d3@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bg4han$ku01d$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>

Tayss wrote:
> Sort of like when someone asks you to move something to a different
> house, and you have no idea how big it is. If you were told, "It's
> just a pillow," you know that you don't need to order a huge truck or
> take any special precautions.

But in Python, you wouldn't have to move the object
itself to the new house, only a reference to it!

Of course, if it's a mutable pillow, it might not
be a good idea to have two people sleeping on it at
the same time, in which case you'd want to make a
copy.

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg




From piet at cs.uu.nl  Sat Jul 12 07:00:34 2003
From: piet at cs.uu.nl (Piet van Oostrum)
Date: 12 Jul 2003 13:00:34 +0200
Subject: Maxmium bufsize using open2?
References: <bejc0u$e0u$1@news.tudelft.nl> <wzbrw081p6.fsf@nono.cs.uu.nl>
Message-ID: <wz7k6o80x9.fsf@nono.cs.uu.nl>

As someone else already mentioned, using select is another solution.
All solution amount to the fact the input and output to the process are
interleaved. 
-- 
Piet van Oostrum <piet at cs.uu.nl>
URL: http://www.cs.uu.nl/~piet [PGP]
Private email: P.van.Oostrum at hccnet.nl



From missive at frontiernet.net  Mon Jul 21 17:34:09 2003
From: missive at frontiernet.net (Lee Harr)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 21:34:09 GMT
Subject: if information exists on form then use it in cgi
References: <2c6431ab.0307211144.4c2f3749@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <slrnbhon5i.krc.missive@localhost.my.domain>

In article <2c6431ab.0307211144.4c2f3749 at posting.google.com>, lamar_air wrote:
> On my web form i have check boxes with the following code:
> 
><td width="173"><input type="checkbox" name="C140" value="1.
> 'St.KittsNevis'">St. Kitts Nevis</td>
> 
> when the user submits the form my python cgi retreives each of the
> values from the form with code like this for each:
> 
>     f=open('C:\My Documents\ABC\boxes', 'w')
> 
>     f.write('Boxes')
>     f.write('\n')



Is form a dictionary?  How about:

    if form.has_key('C139') and form['C139'] != '':


Also, if you have a bunch of form elements like this, 
you will probably want to process them in a loop:

for k in form.keys():  # may want to sort them first...
    if k.startswith('C'):  # or some other way to identify them...
        f.write(form[k].value)



>     if form['C139'].value != '':
>         f.write(form['C139'].value)
>         f.write('\n')
> 
>     if form['C140'].value != '':
>         f.write(form['C140'].value)
>         f.write('\n')
>     
>     f.close()
> 
> the problem is if the user doesn't check off all the check boxes on
> the form then the if form['C140'].value != '' code errors because
> nothing is there.  How do i do this?
> 
> Here is the error:
> 
> The specified CGI application misbehaved by not returning a complete
> set of HTTP headers. The headers it did return are:
> 
> 
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "C:\Inetpub\wwwroot\Cgi-bin\Cities2.py", line 175, in ?
>     if form['C139'].value != '':
>   File "C:\Python22\lib\cgi.py", line 550, in __getitem__
>     raise KeyError, key
> KeyError: C139



From peter at engcorp.com  Sun Jul 20 00:04:40 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 00:04:40 -0400
Subject: How to detect user activity - for a screensaver for example.
References: <bnnSa.43074$124.1021717@wagner.videotron.net>
Message-ID: <3F1A14D8.54B89804@engcorp.com>

Hans Deragon wrote:
> 
> Greetings.
> 
>    If I want to write a screensaver for Linux using Python, how can I detect
> that the user has not touched the keyboard or mouse for the last 5 mins?

Simplest trivial way: check /proc/interrupts for relevant activity...

I'm sure there are more standard approaches, but without knowing what
they are, or knowing anything about, say, Google ;-), that's the 
approach I'd take.

-Peter



From chrisperkins37 at hotmail.com  Tue Jul 29 17:52:36 2003
From: chrisperkins37 at hotmail.com (Chris Perkins)
Date: 29 Jul 2003 14:52:36 -0700
Subject: feature request: a better str.endswith
References: <2259b0e2.0307180401.5dae02f2@posting.google.com> <2259b0e2.0307290940.49ff417d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <45228044.0307291352.696b16aa@posting.google.com>

mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato) wrote in message news:<2259b0e2.0307290940.49ff417d at posting.google.com>...
> I have posted a recipe with the itertools solution suggested in this
> thread:
> 
> http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/212959
> 

That's great, but your recipe contains a very serious error - you
spelled my name wrong ;)

Chris Perkins (not Perking)



From glingl at aon.at  Tue Jul 29 08:35:12 2003
From: glingl at aon.at (Gregor Lingl)
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 14:35:12 +0200
Subject: [Tutor] problems in a python script
References: <3F265CDA.9090004@dte.ua.pt>
Message-ID: <3F266A00.8010209@aon.at>

M?rio Gamito schrieb:

> Hi,
>
> I've downloaded the 30 days trial version of editize and followed the 
> instructions in http://plone.org/Members/tlynch/HowToIntegrateEditize
> to install it.
>
> Everything runs smoothly  until the creation of munge.py as explained 
> in the above link. I get an error saying
>
>  " Script line 4
>     inputvalue = inputvalue.replace("\r", "")
>     ^
> SyntaxError: invalid syntax" 

This looks like if this line were indented some (three ?) blanks from 
the left margin.

In Python blanks (or "white space" in general) has syntactic meaning.
Therefore in a simple script a simple statement like this assignment
MUST NOT be indented.

Remove the indentation and things will work.

HTH, Gregor

>
> A curious thing is that when i save it, not only i get the above 
> error, but also the lines begining with double cardinal (##) are gone!!!
>
> Also the text refers to "Note: you might need to edit the line calling 
> munge in wysiwyg_support to reflect the name of your folder where all 
> the Editize stuff is stored."
>
> Where is this is done ?
>
> Thank you in advance for your time and patience.
>
> Warm Regards,
> M?rio Gamito
>
>
>
>
> munge.py
> -----------------------------------------------------
> ## Script (Python) "munge"
>    ##bind container=container
>    ##bind context=context
>    ##bind namespace=
>    ##bind script=script
>    ##bind subpath=traverse_subpath
>    ##parameters=inputvalue
>    ##title=
>
>    # to guard against files that might contain only
>    # returns or linefeeds, we will delete each separately
>    # rather than trying: replace("\r\n", "")
>    inputvalue = inputvalue.replace("\r", "")
>    inputvalue = inputvalue.replace("\n", "")
>    inputvalue = inputvalue.replace("'", "&#039;")
>
>    return inputvalue
> ------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Tutor maillist  -  Tutor at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
>
>








From jepler at unpythonic.net  Sun Jul 20 21:48:16 2003
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 20:48:16 -0500
Subject: Unfortunate exception on dict item assignment (and why aren't slices hashable?)
Message-ID: <20030721014811.GA3858@unpythonic.net>

>>> {}[:] = None
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
TypeError: unhashable type

I'd have expected something like 'TypeError: unslicable type'
meaning that you can't slice a dict, not that slice()s aren't hashable.

In fact, I wonder why slices *aren't* hashable.  I can imagine wanting
to write something like the following:
    class X:
        # ...
        def __getitem__(self, idx):
            if not idx in self._cache:
                # potentially expire an item and
                if isinstance(idx, slice):
                    self._cache[idx] = self.calculate_slice_expensively(idx)
                else:
                    self._cache[idx] = self.calculate_idx_expensively(idx)
            return self._cache[idx]
 
Jeff




From CousinStanley at hotmail.com  Tue Jul 15 16:58:09 2003
From: CousinStanley at hotmail.com (Cousin Stanley)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 13:58:09 -0700
Subject: String Manipulation
References: <2c6431ab.0307151223.4173c4ee@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bf1pon$9kh1b$1@ID-130333.news.uni-berlin.de>

| I need a piece of code that takes a string like this
| string1 = "aaa/bbb/ccc/dd" and extracts a string containting
| the character after the last "/"
|
| So for this example the result would be "dd"
| ...

lamar_air ...

Here is one way ...


>>> str_in = 'aaa/bbb/ccc/dd'
>>>
>>> list_in = str_in.split( '/' )
>>>
>>> last_element = list_in[ -1 ]
>>>
>>> print last_element
dd
>>>


-- 
Cousin Stanley
Human Being
Phoenix, Arizona





From andre at netvision.com.br  Sat Jul 12 13:22:22 2003
From: andre at netvision.com.br (Andre)
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 17:22:22 +0000
Subject: Reading packets from a tun device.
Message-ID: <200307121722.22603.andre@netvision.com.br>

  I'm trying to read packets from a tun device in Python, the code I used 
for this is the following:

f = file( '/dev/tun0', 'r+' )
pkt = f.read( 1500 )

The problem is that the f.read() call doesn't return. When I used a small 
value in the f.read() call instead of the 1500, like 1 or 5, it did 
return the first bytes of the packet.
I then went to the manuals and found that file() uses stdio's fopen, so I 
changed my code to make file() not do any buffering, like this:

f = file( '/dev/tun0', 'r+', 0 )
pkt = f.read( 1500 )

But the behavior of the program is the same as the one above.

What I'm looking for is a way to open a file in Python without using 
stdio, or a way to read from a tun device using it.
I also tried google'ing for another Python program that uses a tun device, 
but couldn't find any yet, so if you know of a Python program that uses a 
tun device, that'd be enough for me to figure out what I'm doing wrong.

Thank you for reading all this!





From mwh at python.net  Thu Jul 17 13:50:00 2003
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 17:50:00 GMT
Subject: Mac OS X, Fink, Python, and web browser
References: <pdacncvRO_lmnomiU-KYuQ@ctc.net> <2b012c5e.0307151342.e5db114@posting.google.com> <Oq6dnaeGfdCXHImiU-KYgg@ctc.net>
Message-ID: <7h3n0fd123r.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

Joe Heafner <heafnerj at spam.vnet.net> writes:

> Don Hiatt <donhiatt at acm.org> wrote:
> > You can change your default web browser to Safari using the preferences
> > pane (under internet, I believe). If IDLE_fork uses the default browser
> > property then Safari should launch.
> >
> Hi.
> I just double checked and Safari is indeed my system default under System 
> Preferences -> Internet -> Web. There's no mention of Safari in 
> webbrowser.py though.

IIRC, webbrowser.py uses internet config on the mac, so you certainly
should get the default browser.  I've had trouble getting with
webrowser.py on Mac OS X before now, though, but I didn't dig.

Cheers,
M.

-- 
  Academic politics is the most vicious and bitter form of politics,
  because the stakes are so low.                      -- Wallace Sayre



From glenfant at NOSPAM.bigfoot.com  Fri Jul  4 12:28:49 2003
From: glenfant at NOSPAM.bigfoot.com (Gilles Lenfant)
Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 18:28:49 +0200
Subject: FYI:  pyBoards.com
References: <191e20c8.0307031711.42d4e46b@posting.google.com> <3F04E609.2010500@dadsetan.com>
Message-ID: <be497a$pl6$1@biggoron.nerim.net>

"Behrang Dadsetan" <ben at dadsetan.com> a ?crit dans le message de news:
3F04E609.2010500 at dadsetan.com...
> A bit a pitty the message board system is php based..
>
> Does anyone know about message board systems written in python?

The right question is : "does the web tool comply the requirements ?"

Personnally, I prefer phpMySQLadmin to most python stuff in that scope.
Despite I prefer programming with Python.

--Gilles




From dave at pythonapocrypha.com  Thu Jul  3 15:08:27 2003
From: dave at pythonapocrypha.com (Dave Brueck)
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 12:08:27 -0700
Subject: A story about Python... sort of
In-Reply-To: <dGZMa.5172$351.1725266@twister.nyc.rr.com>
References: <3f03f430$0$97222$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk> <FiZMa.2097$_k2.145814@nnrp1.ptd.net> <dGZMa.5172$351.1725266@twister.nyc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <200307031208.27973.dave@pythonapocrypha.com>

On Thursday 03 July 2003 10:25 am, Max Khesin wrote:

> I am not sure where we disagree. This is exactly my point. The statement
> "
> Engineering Lessons
> -------------------
>     1. C/C++ is no longer a viable development language
> "
> is pure rubbish. C++ is still great for certain kinds of projects,

FWIW, he goes on to say that he's referring to using it for applications level 
work.

>  and
> there are lots of open-source and proprietary projects to prove this. I
> mean, is Linux (or Windows) 'not a viable project'?? 

Well, again, neither of those are "applications level" projects. He probably 
could have emphasized that portion of his opinion better.

I agree that his position was probably taken a little too strongly, but it 
does have some merit. For example, I'm a professional developer by trade and 
by hobby and I stopped using C++ about 2 years ago (except for an occasional 
Python extension module before ctypes came about) and I have no plans to ever 
go back because, for me, it is too expensive to develop in C++.

If I _must_ drop to a lower-level language temporarily (after exhausting other 
avenues like Pyrex, Psyco, or even PyInline :) ) I'd be willing to use C a 
little, or may a C-with-simple-classes style of C++, but I doubt I'll ever 
use C++ again for much at all, and even then I'll use only the tiniest subset 
of C++'s features possible.

For me the language is too big, has too many pitfalls, and it forces me to 
manage too many little details. If Python were to become too slow or too 
weird I'd migrate to another high-level language but life is too short to 
mess with a language any lower-level than you really need to, and for the 
most part C++ now falls into that category for me. In that respect I agree 
with the guy who wrote the article - for me C++ is fading into history just 
like assembly did once upon a time, and I'm glad.

-Dave




From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Thu Jul 10 13:24:57 2003
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 10 Jul 2003 13:24:57 -0400
Subject: does lack of type declarations make Python unsafe?
References: <idqrev4h6i3gohg9lp02nci8upj7a818fc@4ax.com> <ea97dfd9.0306290730.137c6837@posting.google.com> <bdnite$lsg$1@news.hccnet.nl> <uznjprpsc.fsf@boost-consulting.com>
Message-ID: <bek7h9$kgk$1@panix2.panix.com>

In article <uznjprpsc.fsf at boost-consulting.com>,
David Abrahams  <dave at boost-consulting.com> wrote:
>anton at vredegoor.doge.nl (Anton Vredegoor) writes:
>>
>> Confronting the Martellibot is like flirting with an encyclopedia, I'd
>> rather not do it myself, but I respect those who do, because it
>> produces knowledge.
>
>Yeah, and fun!  I'm a little disappointed that Alex disappeared from
>this discussion because I thought it was going somewhere interesting
>and was looking forward to some more cogent arguments.  Any chance of
>re-opening it, Alex?  I'm referring, in particular, to
>http://tinyurl.com/gbq0

Alex has been busy with OSCON and other things; I don't expect him to
make many contributions until he's back in Italy and caught up.  If you
want further discussion, I'd suggest reposting this when he starts
posting here again.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"Not everything in life has a clue in front of it...."  --JMS



From andy47 at halfcooked.com  Sun Jul  6 09:30:12 2003
From: andy47 at halfcooked.com (Andy Todd)
Date: Sun, 06 Jul 2003 14:30:12 +0100
Subject: AIX + GCC 2.95.3 - Python (2.1 or 2.2) - building the shared
 library   (.so) for python - HOW TO?!?
In-Reply-To: <3F056D69.1090705@polbox.com>
References: <3F056D69.1090705@polbox.com>
Message-ID: <be988l$3go$1@main.gmane.org>

hab wrote:
> Hi all,
[snip description of installing Python from source]
> Thanks in advance,
>     Tom
> 

It might not be what you are looking for, but I've recently installed 
Python on an AIX box using the rpm available from IBM at;

http://www-1.ibm.com/servers/aix/products/aixos/linux/download.html

Works like a dream for me. YMMV.

Regards,
Andy
-- 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 From the desk of Andrew J Todd esq - http://www.halfcooked.com/






From klapotec at chello.at  Thu Jul 31 16:10:47 2003
From: klapotec at chello.at (Christopher Koppler)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 20:10:47 GMT
Subject: [Newbie] FAQ?
References: <bgb4a9$cl0$1@news.newsland.it> <nv8iivsofvr76bvgnffj45q452ld5smk6d@4ax.com> <bgb9tr$97j$1@news.newsland.it> <mailman.1059678060.22910.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <uptiivgvfisd32qnginpomf6abc819fku4@4ax.com>

On Thu, 31 Jul 2003 13:58:55 -0500, Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com>
wrote:

>
>    Simone>is there a FAQ for this NG?
>
>    Christopher> http://www.faqs.org/faqs/by-newsgroup/comp/comp.lang.python.html
>    Christopher> Have you heard of Google?
>
>    Simone> sure I did! Pardon... 
>
>Don't apologize too profusely.  The dates on the two FAQs listed there (one
>for c.l.py and one for c.l.py.announce) are 1996 and 1999, respectively.
>The c.l.py FAQ probably is going to be all that useful unless you're a
>Python historian.
>

You're right, I was a bit too fast there...
Also in hindsight I sounded a bit rough there, which wasn't my
intention.


--Christopher



From k.robert at gmx.de  Sat Jul 26 13:00:06 2003
From: k.robert at gmx.de (Robert)
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 19:00:06 +0200
Subject: This application has requested the Runtime to terminate it in an unusual way ?
Message-ID: <3f22b3a7$0$30287$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>

On Windows my python 2.2 application (using win32ui GUI, ...) some times
simply crashes when I work with the GUI. Tooltips are involved; the app
crashes on mouse moves). The GUI-Window disapears and only the following
message is yielded (from python-core?)

"
This application has requested the Runtime to terminate it in an unusual
way.
Please contact the application's support team for more information.
"

what could be the reason ?

Robert





From adalke at mindspring.com  Mon Jul 28 06:46:28 2003
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 04:46:28 -0600
Subject: How to reverse lookup characters in list?
References: <mailman.1059365860.23474.python-list@python.org> <pan.2003.07.28.06.15.30.615723@cs.rit.edu>
Message-ID: <bg2um3$s4t$1@slb9.atl.mindspring.net>

Keith Jones
> import string
> string.lowercase
>
> that gives you a-z, lowercase..

Actually, use 'string.ascii_lowercase' because 'string.lowercase' depends
on your locale.

On the other hand, for this application, string.lower might be the right
thing.

Also, the tjland?  You need to change the

    c = c + v
into
    c = (c + v) % len(alphabet)

Suppose c is 'z' and v is 2.  Then 25 (the position of the 'z') + 2 is 27,
which
is beyond the list of letters.  You need some way to loop around to 0 once
you go over the end, and the '%' is the loop-around operator.  (It's
actually
called the mod function.)  It also works the other way, so "-1 % 26" loops
around to 25.

You might find this helpful

>>> s = "testing"
>>> v = 2
>>> letters = string.ascii_lowercase
>>> t = ""
>>> for c in s:
...  t = t + letters[(letters.index(c)+v)%len(letters)]
...
>>> t
'vguvkpi'
>>> s = t
>>> v = -2
>>> t = ""
>>> for c in s:
...  t = t + letters[(letters.index(c)+v)%len(letters)]
...
>>> t
'testing'
>>>

With a bit more experience, I think you'll find this also interesting

v = 2

# Start by mapping each letter to itself
#  (There are 256 possible values in an 8-bit character.)
encoding_d = {}
for i in range(256):
  c = chr(i)
  encoding_d[c] = c

lc = string.ascii_lowercase
for i in range(len(lc)):
  from_char = lc[i]
  to_char = lc[(i+v) % len(lc)]
  encoding_d[from_char] = to_char

uc = string.ascii_uppercase
for i in range(len(uc)):
  from_char = uc[i]
  to_char = uc[(i+v) % len(uc)]
  encoding_d[from_char] = to_char

s = "This is a test."

# This is better written as:
#   t = "".join([encoding_d[c] for c in s])
# but that's something to try out after you learn a
# bit more Python.

t = ""
for c in s:
  t = t + encoding_d[c]

print t

# Make a decoding dictionary which is the opposite of the
# encoding dictionary
decoding_d = {}
for from_char, to_char in encoding_d.items():
  decoding_d[to_char] = from_char

# or as:  u = "".join([decoding_d[c] for c in t])
u = ""
for c in t:
  u = u + decoding_d[c]

print u

With some more experience beyond that, you might write it like this
(It uses a very different style and implementation)

import string

def _r(s, n):
  # rotate the characters left n positions
  n %= len(s)  # make sure it's properly within range
  return s[n:] + s[:n]

class RotEncoder:
 def __init__(self, n):
    from_letters = string.ascii_lowercase + string.ascii_uppercase
    to_letters = _r(string.ascii_lowercase, n) + _r(string.ascii_uppercase,
n)
    self.encode_table = string.maketrans(from_letters, to_letters)
    self.decode_table = string.maketrans(to_letters, from_letters)
 def encode(self, s):
    return string.translate(s, self.encode_table)
 def decode(self, s):
    return string.translate(s, self.decode_table)

code = RotEncoder(2)
print code.encode("testing")
print code.decode(code.encode("testing"))

                    Andrew
                    dalke at dalkescientific.com





From danbmil99 at yahoo.com  Wed Jul 23 03:44:33 2003
From: danbmil99 at yahoo.com (dan)
Date: 23 Jul 2003 00:44:33 -0700
Subject: python assignment
References: <fbf8d8f2.0307221659.1dd1ac77@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <fbf8d8f2.0307222344.242593e6@posting.google.com>

Ok, thanks for the responses.  I think I 'get' it now.  However I do
think it would be an excellent idea to have a bit of exposition on
this subject in the Python tutorial, or perhaps in a separate section.
 It's not really hard to understand once you realize what's going on,
but I suspect it causes no end of confusion for both new programmers
and old (those used to langs such as C++).

Here's a better example of how a newbie can get confused:

>>> a = (1,2)      #a is a tuple
>>> b = a          #b & a now point to same object on heap
>>> a += (3,)      #tuples are immutable so += returns a new one
>>> b == a         #b points to old, a points to new
False
>>> a = [1,2]      #a is a list
>>> b = a          #a & b point to same object again
>>> a += [3]       #a is mutable, so += mutates it
>>> b == a         #of course
True
>>> a = a + [4]    #hmm... one *might* think this is eqiv. to a += [4]
>>> a == b
False              #but NOOO!!
>>> a
[1, 2, 3, 4]
>>> b
[1, 2, 3]

Now that I understand what's happening, it makes sense, but initially
this sort of behavior was quite mysterious.

-dbm

danbmil99 at yahoo.com (dan) wrote in message news:<fbf8d8f2.0307221659.1dd1ac77 at posting.google.com>...
> without stirring the pot too much --
> 
> could someone please point me to whatever documentation exists on the
> philosophy, semantics, and practical implications of how Python
> implements the assignment operator?  So far I can't find much useful
> in the regular documentation.  I understand the basic concept that
> names are bound to objects which exist on the heap, but that still
> doesn't explain why a = b doesn't _always_ cause a to point to the
> same object as b.  What determines when the object in question is
> copied?  What determines when a future maniplulation of the variable
> will cause it to point to an object that is already referenced by
> another variable? (see code below for an example).
> 
> What I need is an exact and unambiguous algorithm for determining when
> an assignment will change the id of the variable (or should I say,
> when the evaluation of an expression will cause a new object to be
> created).  Some of the issues involved can be discerned from the
> following session:
> 
> >>> a = 1
> >>> b = a
> >>> a is b
>  True
> >>> a += 1
> >>> a -= 1
> >>> a is b
>  True
> >>> a = 1.0
> >>> b = a
> >>> a is b
>  True
> >>> a += 1
> >>> a -= 1
> >>> a is b
>  False
> >>> a == b
> True



From bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au  Fri Jul 11 18:20:48 2003
From: bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au (Ben Finney)
Date: 12 Jul 2003 08:10:48 +0950
Subject: The "intellectual property" misnomer
References: <mailman.1057951098.31738.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrnbguf7g.q1.bignose-hates-spam@rose.localdomain.fake>

On Fri, 11 Jul 2003 15:13:43 -0400, Guido van Rossum wrote:
> The PSF holds the intellectual property rights for Python

Ugh.  Please don't propagate this ridiculous, meaningless term.  It's
used to refer to a wide range of greatly disparate legal concepts; to
use it as a single term implies that there's some unifying "intellectual
property" principle joining them together, which is a falsehood.

If the PSF holds the copyright to Python, please say that.

If the PSF holds patents which cover Python, please say that.

If the PSF owns the trademark for Python, please say that.

If the PSF has trade secrets in Python, please say that.

But please *don't* muddy the water by saying the PSF holds "the
intellectual property rights" for Python.  That says nothing useful --
it doesn't help determine which of the above fields of law are
applicable -- and only promotes the idea that all these different fields
of law are part of a whole, which they are definitely not.

It also encourages another falsehood: that of considering intellectual
objects as property.  This is something which many people who use Python
would disagree with strongly.

    <http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/words-to-avoid.html#IntellectualProperty>

-- 
 \      "Why should I care about posterity? What's posterity ever done |
  `\                                         for me?"  -- Groucho Marx |
_o__)                                                                  |
http://bignose.squidly.org/ 9CFE12B0 791A4267 887F520C B7AC2E51 BD41714B



From tzot at sil-tec.gr  Wed Jul  2 05:14:04 2003
From: tzot at sil-tec.gr (Christos TZOTZIOY Georgiou)
Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 12:14:04 +0300
Subject: Date issue Win98 vs NT
References: <SDsMa.38974$hV.2346862@twister.austin.rr.com>
Message-ID: <cb85gvgtf2657aon58qu4p3qorvfpbi79v@4ax.com>

On Wed, 02 Jul 2003 03:50:10 GMT, rumours say that "Stan Cook"
<scook at elp.rr.com> might have written:

>Has anyone else had this or a similar problem and is there a workaround?

>This piece of code:

>from time import gmtime, strftime
>_log = _log + "\\" + strftime("%m%d%y", gmtime()) + ".log"

>produces a file with the name 'today's date.log' on NT, but creates a file
>called 'tomorrow's date.log' on Windows 98.  I would really like to know
>why this happens.  Any help offered is very much appreciated.

Are you by any chance in Austin, Texas?

I could guess that first you tried this code in Windows NT, and later
rebooted to Windows 98.  Running your code on Windows 98 happened after
6pm, your local time.

By that time, I think it is already tomorrow in Greenwich, England
(which is what gmtime provides).  Try localtime instead (assuming your
timezone is set correctly both in NT and 98).
-- 
TZOTZIOY, I speak England very best,
Microsoft Security Alert: the Matrix began as open source.



From just at xs4all.nl  Wed Jul  2 06:38:02 2003
From: just at xs4all.nl (Just)
Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 12:38:02 +0200
Subject: Assign to True / False in 2.3
References: <bdu98t$1eh$1@lust.ihug.co.nz> <3F02ADD3.6047F561@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <just-8DE2E7.12380202072003@news1.news.xs4all.nl>

In article <3F02ADD3.6047F561 at alcyone.com>,
 Erik Max Francis <max at alcyone.com> wrote:

> Culley Angus wrote:
> 
> > I was a little suprised to find that I could assign a value to 'True',
> > and 'False' without warning though, and was wondering if this is
> > deliberate.
> 
> This is true of pretty much all Python features.  The only special
> dispensation goes to None, which is a warning now (in the 2.3 beta):

Actually, at some point there was a warning for True and False as well, 
but it was taken out because there is plenty of code out there like this:

    try:
        True, False
    except NameError:
        True, False = 1, 0

(I'm not entirely sure, it can also be that there never was a warning in 
place, but it was discussed.)

Just



From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Fri Jul 11 10:33:47 2003
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 11 Jul 2003 10:33:47 -0400
Subject: Embedding Python, threading and scalability
References: <mailman.1057884556.438.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bemhsb$dgn$1@panix3.panix.com>

In article <mailman.1057884556.438.python-list at python.org>,
Simon Wittber (Maptek) <Simon.Wittber at perth.maptek.com.au> wrote:
>
>To write scalable applications in Python, one must write the
>'scalabilty-required' parts n C.
>
>Does anyone else see this as a problem?

Not particularly.  Most threading at the application level is done for
one or more of three purposes:

* Allowing background work and fast response in a GUI application

* Scalable I/O

* Autonomous sections of code for algorithmic simplicity (e.g.
simulations)

Python does quite well at all three out of the box (the second because
all standard Python I/O modules release the GIL, as do most 3rd-party
extensions that deal with I/O (e.g. mxODBC)).  The only thing Python
doesn't do is computational threading, and Python's overhead makes it a
poor choice for that purpose.  Finally, there are so many distributed
computing solutions that multiple processes are a viable technique for
managing computational threading.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"Not everything in life has a clue in front of it...."  --JMS



From http  Sun Jul 20 21:57:04 2003
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 20 Jul 2003 18:57:04 -0700
Subject: Possible use of Python for a voting machine demo project -- your feedback requested
References: <P9DSa.111436$Io.9552373@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <bff6jb$e8goe$1@ID-67890.news.uni-berlin.de> <7xk7acai97.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <PtHSa.14085$Mc.1037736@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <7x8yqstzf3.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

"Alan Dechert" <adechert at earthlink.net> writes:
> You make a lot of good points.  As I understand it, Canada administers
> national, province, and local elections separately.  They happen at
> different times and are conducted by different entities.  The U.S. is one of
> very few where you see federal, state, and local contests on the same
> ballot.

The US does not have federal contests.  All elections for federal
office are actually state contests.  That includes Presidential
elections, which are a bunch of state contests for slates of electors
from the individual states.  That all the elections are state contests
and not federal ones is one of the reasons it's hard to impose uniform
national standards on how the elections are run.



From jjl at pobox.com  Mon Jul 21 09:45:17 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 21 Jul 2003 14:45:17 +0100
Subject: Python scripting with Paint Shop Pro 8.0
References: <kl3lhvgh5iillo5g9jvff92qkc8i2022nm@4ax.com> <bfe6bo$cdr$1@panix2.panix.com> <ucvlhvgj9nm4op4u2rqrkif7n04d520gbo@4ax.com> <87d6g4wzu7.fsf@pobox.com> <bpnmhvg7m3sf3rjphodfvgomtt3jg640hn@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <87oezoq9hu.fsf@pobox.com>

Marc Wilson <marc at cleopatra.co.uk> writes:
[...]
> The documentation is, er, sketchy.  The manual refers you to a non-existant
> folder on the CD, and the Python content is referred to as the "Python
> Scripting Engine", which suggests it may not be a full implementation.  If I
> have to install Python separately, so be it.  I'll look for the .pyd file
> and see if there a suspiciously-named executable there as well.

The fact that it's embedded doesn't necessarily mean that you can't
import it from outside the running application, but it may well not be
possible.  Worth a try, though.

As I said in an email, don't forget COM -- maybe one of those .py
files you have is just a wrapper around a COM automation interface.
The "Python for Windows extensions" (aka win32all) is what you need
for most COM stuff.


John



From hokiegal99 at hotmail.com  Fri Jul 18 18:16:05 2003
From: hokiegal99 at hotmail.com (hokiegal99)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 18:16:05 -0400
Subject: using functions and file renaming problem
References: <3F174E76.4000302@hotmail.com> <mailman.1058531368.14359.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3F1871A5.3020702@hotmail.com>

Thanks again for the help Andy! One last question: What is the advantage 
of placing code in a function? I don't see how having this bit of code 
in a function improves it any. Could someone explain this?

Thanks!

Andy Jewell wrote:
> On Friday 18 Jul 2003 2:33 am, hokiegal99 wrote:
> 
>>A few questions about the following code. How would I "wrap" this in a
>>function, and do I need to?
>>
>>Also, how can I make the code smart enough to realize that when a file
>>has 2 or more bad charcters in it, that the code needs to run until all
>>bad characters are gone?
> 
> 
> It almost is ;-)
> 
> 
>>For example, if a file has the name
>>"<bad*mac\file" the program has to run 3 times to get all three bad
>>chars out of the file name.
>>
>>The passes look like this:
>>
>>1. <bad*mac\file becomes -bad*mac\file
>>2. -bad*mac\file becomes -bad-mac\file
>>3. -bad-mac\file becomes -bad-mac-file
>>
>>I think the problem is that once the program finds a bad char in a
>>filename it replaces it with a dash, which creates a new filename that
>>wasn't present when the program first ran, thus it has to run again to
>>see the new filename.
> 
> 
> No, the problem is that you're throwing away all but the last correction.  
> Read my comments below:
> 
> import os, re, string
> bad = re.compile(r'%2f|%25|[*?<>/\|\\]') #search for these.
> print " "
> setpath = raw_input("Path to the dir that you would like to clean: ")
> print " "
> print "--- Remove Bad Charaters From Filenames ---"
> print " "
> for root, dirs, files in os.walk(setpath):
>      for file in files:
>          badchars = bad.findall(file)	# find any bad characters
>          newfile = file
>          for badchar in badchars:		# loop through each character in badchars  
>          # note that if badchars is empty, this loop is not entered
>              # show whats happening         
>              print "replacing",badchar,"in",newfile,":", 
>              # replace all occurrences of this badchar with '-' and remember 
>              # it for next iteration of loop:            
>              newfile = newfile.replace(badchar,'-') #replace bad chars.
>              print newfile
>          if badchars:	# were there any bad characters in the name?
>              newpath = os.path.join(root,newfile)
>              oldpath = os.path.join(root,file)
>              os.rename(oldpath,newpath)
>              print oldpath
> print newpath
> print " "
> print "--- Done ---"
> print " "
> 
> 
> wrt wrapping it up in a function, here's a starter for you... "fill in the 
> blanks":
> 
> 
> -------8<-----------
> def cleanup(setpath):
>     # compile regex for finding bad characters
> 
>     # walk directory tree...
> 
>     # find any bad characters
> 
>     # loop through each character in badchars
> 
>              # replace all occurrences of this badchar with '-' and remember 
> 
>     # were there any bad characters in the name?
> 
> -------8<-----------
> 
> To call this you could do (on linux - mac paths are different):
> 
> -------8<-----------
> cleanup("/home/andy/Python")
> -------8<-----------
> 
> hope that helps
> -andyj
> 
> 





From guettler at thomas-guettler.de  Mon Jul 21 05:35:36 2003
From: guettler at thomas-guettler.de (Thomas =?ISO-8859-15?Q?G=FCttler?=)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 11:35:36 +0200
Subject: Directory Structure for Distutils
Message-ID: <bfgc58$edkhi$1@ID-63505.news.uni-berlin.de>

Hi!

What is the best directory structure for python modules?

I want to install a script called pyla into /usr/bin/pyla

The script pyla imports several methods and classes from a
module called pyla.

Up to would like to do it like this

pyla/
pyla/setup.py
pyla/dist (created by distutils)
pyla/pyla/__init__.py # This should be in site-packages/pyla
pyla/pyla/foo.py      
pyla/pyla # Script for /usr/bin cannot be called like this
          # because directory pyla exists.

Would be nice if there was a "prefered" directory strucuture
in the documentation of distutils. This should include
doc/, man/, etc/, ...

What does your directory strutures look like?

 thomas




From thewrights at ozemail.com.au  Thu Jul 17 09:07:36 2003
From: thewrights at ozemail.com.au (thewrights at ozemail.com.au)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 23:07:36 +1000
Subject: Co-routines
Message-ID: <g7xRa.305$fF.9914@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au>

I have an application in which I want the users to be able to create python
functions:

def f1():
    print "1-1"
    print "1-2"
    print "1-3"

def f2():
    print "2-1"
    print "2-2"
    print "3-3"

and when my application runs, I want to execute these functions in
"lock-step", so that the output looks like:

    1-1
    2-2
    1-2
    2-2
    1-3
    2-3

If I were using prolog I'd write a meta-interpreter; with lisp/scheme I
might use macros and do some source-code transformation.

What's the most Pythonic way to do this?

If I assume that each statement in the function bodies occupy only one
physical line, I could read the user functions in, and output them to a new
file, interspersing "yield"s. If, quite reasonable, a user spans a statement
over more that one line:

def f3():
    d = {
            "a" : "One string",
            "b" : "Another string"
            }
    print d

then I'm in the "parsing python" game.

(I recall the malevolent and  wicked ternary operator example that was
posted here which fiddled with function source code in the metaclass... I'm
still picking up pieces of my brain from the floor)

I'd be very grateful for suggestions. Is the compiler module my friend?

I would love to end up with:

while 1:
    try:
        for f in function_list:
            f.next()
    except StopIteration:
        print "wow!"


Thanks

Chris Wright





From justinjohnson at fastmail.fm  Wed Jul  9 13:00:30 2003
From: justinjohnson at fastmail.fm (Justin Johnson)
Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 11:00:30 -0600
Subject: process.py problems
In-Reply-To: <20030709123628.66ACA3771B@www.fastmail.fm>
References: <20030708153117.127C0326C0@www.fastmail.fm> <20030708094057.C9520@ActiveState.com> <20030708210829.B3BBE3886D@www.fastmail.fm> <20030708170131.C13603@ActiveState.com> <20030709123005.C0B58374AF@www.fastmail.fm> <20030709123628.66ACA3771B@www.fastmail.fm>
Message-ID: <20030709170030.51BDE37470@www.fastmail.fm>

I guess this really is a problem.  I found that it sometimes hangs on
p.stdout.read().

>>> p = process.ProcessOpen("cleartool lsvob -s")
>>> p.stdout.read()
'\\import_test\n\\pvob\n\\vob\n\\adminvob\n\\adminvob2\n'
>>> p = process.ProcessOpen("cleartool lsview -l")
>>> p.stdout.read()
*** just hangs here ***


On Wed, 09 Jul 2003 06:36:28 -0600, "Justin Johnson"
<justinjohnson at fastmail.fm> said:
> Never mind the part about commands hanging....  that appears to be
> related to something else in my code.  I think your process stuff is
> working fine for .exe commands.  :-)
> 
> So just the dir command is failing now.
> 
> On Wed, 09 Jul 2003 06:30:05 -0600, "Justin Johnson"
> <justinjohnson at fastmail.fm> said:
> > After replacing my process.py I still get an error with the dir command
> > (see below).
> > 
> > I'm getting some wierd results with normal .exe commands though. 
> > Commands that don't have much output come back just fine, but commands
> > that have more output, even if they don't take long to run necessarily,
> > seem to get stuck and just hang, never returning.
> > 
> > E:\ccase\python\uhg\uht>python
> > ActivePython 2.2.2 Build 224 (ActiveState Corp.) based on
> > Python 2.2.2 (#37, Nov 26 2002, 10:24:37) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
> > Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> > >>> import process
> > >>> p = process.ProcessOpen("dir")
> > process: info:ProcessOpen.__init__(cmd='dir', mode='t', cwd=None,
> > env=None)
> > process.res: info:[11054544] ProcessOpen._start(): create child stdin:
> > <_FileWra
> > pper: file:None fd:3 os_handle:<PyHANDLE object at 0x00A8ACA4>>
> > process.res: info:[11054544] ProcessOpen._start(): create child stdout:
> > <_FileWr
> > apper: file:None fd:4 os_handle:<PyHANDLE object at 0x00A8D6B4>>
> > process.res: info:[11054544] ProcessOpen._start(): create child stderr:
> > <_FileWr
> > apper: file:None fd:5 os_handle:<PyHANDLE object at 0x00A8D694>>
> > process: debug:_whichFirstArg: first='dir', rest=''
> > Traceback (most recent call last):
> >   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
> >   File "process.py", line 1118, in __init__
> >     self._startOnWindows()
> >   File "process.py", line 1289, in _startOnWindows
> >     cmd = _fixupCommand(cmd, self._env)
> >   File "process.py", line 516, in _fixupCommand
> >     cmd = _whichFirstArg(cmd, env)
> >   File "process.py", line 325, in _whichFirstArg
> >     candidate = which.which(first)
> >   File "which.py", line 251, in which
> >     raise WhichError("Could not find '%s' on the path." % command)
> > which.WhichError: Could not find 'dir' on the path.
> > >>>
> > 
> > >>> p = process.ProcessOpen("cleartool lsvob -l")
> > process: info:ProcessOpen.__init__(cmd='cleartool lsvob -l', mode='t',
> > cwd=None,
> >  env=None)
> > process.res: info:[18469440] ProcessOpen._start(): create child stdin:
> > <_FileWra
> > pper: file:None fd:3 os_handle:<PyHANDLE object at 0x01198B44>>
> > process.res: info:[18469440] ProcessOpen._start(): create child stdout:
> > <_FileWr
> > apper: file:None fd:4 os_handle:<PyHANDLE object at 0x0119CA74>>
> > process.res: info:[18469440] ProcessOpen._start(): create child stderr:
> > <_FileWr
> > apper: file:None fd:5 os_handle:<PyHANDLE object at 0x0119A9E4>>
> > process: debug:_whichFirstArg: first='cleartool', rest='lsvob -l'
> > process: debug:_SaferCreateProcess(appName=None,
> >                     cmd='"C:\\Program
> >                     Files\\Rational\\ClearCase\\bin\\cleartool
> > .EXE" lsvob -l',
> >                     env=None,
> >                     cwd=None)
> >     os.getcwd(): 'E:\\ccase\\python\\uhg\\uht'
> > 
> > process: info:_registerprocess(process=<process.ProcessOpen instance at
> > 0x0119D2
> > 40>)
> > ***** It doesn't return here *****
> > 
> > 
> > On Tue, 8 Jul 2003 17:01:32 -0700, "Trent Mick" <trentm at ActiveState.com>
> > said:
> > > 
> > > Yup, process.py is expected a which.py <1.0. Crappy. I need to put up a
> > > new process.py. To work around in it in your current build you need to
> > > changes process.py's usages of which.which() to expect a single hit
> > > instead of a list of a all hits. In other words, which.which() changed
> > > from:
> > >     >>> which.which("python")
> > >     ["C:\\Python22\\python.exe", "C:\\Python21\\python.exe", ...]
> > > to:
> > >     >>> which.which("python")
> > >     "C:\\Python22\\python.exe"
> > > 
> > > This is a little bit of a pain to do though. I have attached an untested
> > > process.py that should have this fixed. I apologize for the informalness
> > > of this. I'll try to get a new process.py version up on
> > > <starship.python.net/~tmick> when I get a chance.
> > > 
> > > Cheers,
> > > Trent
> > > 
> > > 
> > > [Justin Johnson wrote]
> > > > Thanks for the reply!
> > > > 
> > > > which 1.0.2
> > > > 
> > > > Here's the log output with the dir command
> > > > -----------------------
> > > > process.res: info:[18392288] ProcessOpen._start(): create child stdin:
> > > > <_FileWra
> > > > pper: file:None fd:3 os_handle:<PyHANDLE object at 0x0118C694>>
> > > > process.res: info:[18392288] ProcessOpen._start(): create child stdout:
> > > > <_FileWr
> > > > apper: file:None fd:4 os_handle:<PyHANDLE object at 0x0118C674>>
> > > > process.res: info:[18392288] ProcessOpen._start(): create child stderr:
> > > > <_FileWr
> > > > apper: file:None fd:5 os_handle:<PyHANDLE object at 0x0118C654>>
> > > > process.res: info:[18392288] ProcessOpen.__del__()
> > > > process: info:[18392288] ProcessOpen.close()
> > > > process: info:[18392288] ProcessOpen: closing stdin (<_FileWrapper:
> > > > file:None fd
> > > > :3 os_handle:<PyHANDLE object at 0x0118C694>>).
> > > > process: debug:[18400496] _FileWrapper.close()
> > > > process: debug:[18400496] _FileWrapper.close: close handle
> > > > process: debug:[18400496] _FileWrapper.close: closing handle raised
> > > > process: debug:[18400496] _FileWrapper.close: done closing handle
> > > > process: info:[18392288] ProcessOpen: closing stdout (<_FileWrapper:
> > > > file:None f
> > > > d:4 os_handle:<PyHANDLE object at 0x0118C674>>).
> > > > process: debug:[18400720] _FileWrapper.close()
> > > > process: debug:[18400720] _FileWrapper.close: close handle
> > > > process: debug:[18400720] _FileWrapper.close: closing handle raised
> > > > process: debug:[18400720] _FileWrapper.close: done closing handle
> > > > process: info:[18392288] ProcessOpen: closing stderr (<_FileWrapper:
> > > > file:None f
> > > > d:5 os_handle:<PyHANDLE object at 0x0118C654>>).
> > > > process: debug:[18403024] _FileWrapper.close()
> > > > process: debug:[18403024] _FileWrapper.close: close handle
> > > > process: debug:[18403024] _FileWrapper.close: closing handle raised
> > > > process: debug:[18403024] _FileWrapper.close: done closing handle
> > > > process: debug:[18400720] _FileWrapper.close()
> > > > process: debug:[18400496] _FileWrapper.close()
> > > > process: debug:[18403024] _FileWrapper.close()
> > > > ----------------
> > > > 
> > > > I also get the following results running commands that are in my path...
> > > > ------------------
> > > > g`"apper: file:None fd:5 os_handle:<PyHANDLE object at 0x011D30A4>>
> > > > process: debug:_SaferCreateProcess(appName=None,
> > > >                     cmd='C lsview -s',
> > > >                     env=None,
> > > >                     cwd=None)
> > > >     os.getcwd(): 'E:\\ccase\\python\\uhg\\uht'
> > > > 
> > > > process.res: info:[18680944] ProcessOpen.__del__()
> > > > process: info:[18680944] ProcessOpen.close()
> > > > process: info:[18680944] ProcessOpen: closing stdin (<_FileWrapper:
> > > > file:None fd
> > > > :3 os_handle:<PyHANDLE object at 0x011D4744>>).
> > > > process: debug:[18696880] _FileWrapper.close()
> > > > process: debug:[18696880] _FileWrapper.close: close handle
> > > > process: debug:[18696880] _FileWrapper.close: closing handle raised
> > > > process: debug:[18696880] _FileWrapper.close: done closing handle
> > > > process: info:[18680944] ProcessOpen: closing stdout (<_FileWrapper:
> > > > file:None f
> > > > d:4 os_handle:<PyHANDLE object at 0x011D47C4>>).
> > > > process: debug:[18696832] _FileWrapper.close()
> > > > process: debug:[18696832] _FileWrapper.close: close handle
> > > > process: debug:[18696832] _FileWrapper.close: closing handle raised
> > > > process: debug:[18696832] _FileWrapper.close: done closing handle
> > > > process: info:[18680944] ProcessOpen: closing stderr (<_FileWrapper:
> > > > file:None f
> > > > d:5 os_handle:<PyHANDLE object at 0x011D30A4>>).
> > > > process: debug:[18699984] _FileWrapper.close()
> > > > process: debug:[18699984] _FileWrapper.close: close handle
> > > > process: debug:[18699984] _FileWrapper.close: closing handle raised
> > > > process: debug:[18699984] _FileWrapper.close: done closing handle
> > > > process: debug:[18696832] _FileWrapper.close()
> > > > process: debug:[18696880] _FileWrapper.close()
> > > > process: debug:[18699984] _FileWrapper.close()
> > > > ---------
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > 
> > > -- 
> > > Trent Mick
> > > TrentM at ActiveState.com
> > 
> > -- 
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> > 
> 




From skip at pobox.com  Thu Jul 24 16:00:01 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 15:00:01 -0500
Subject: easy way to remove nonprintable chars from string
In-Reply-To: <2b012c5e.0307241138.177e5c8c@posting.google.com>
References: <2b012c5e.0307241138.177e5c8c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <16160.15041.404075.457250@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    Don> Is there an easy way to remove multiple non-printable (e.g. "not
    Don> strings.printable") from a string? Perhaps something like
    Don> foo.replace(list_of_nonprintables, '') if it only existed? :-)

Check out the string module's translate function.

Skip




From fredrik at pythonware.com  Thu Jul 17 02:44:50 2003
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 08:44:50 +0200
Subject: Regular expression help
References: <LApRa.5420$Qe5.2628@nwrddc03.gnilink.net>
Message-ID: <bf5gkq$bng$1@main.gmane.org>

David Lees wrote:

> I forget how to find multiple instances of stuff between tags using
> regular expressions.  Specifically I want to find all the text between a
> series of begin/end pairs in a multiline file.
>
> I tried:
>  >>> p = 'begin(.*)end'
>  >>> m = re.search(p,s,re.DOTALL)
>
> and got everything between the first begin and last end.  I guess
> because of a greedy match.  What I want to do is a list where each
> element is the text between another begin/end pair.

people will tell you to use non-greedy matches, but that's often a
bad idea in cases like this: the RE engine has to store lots of back-
tracking information, and your program will consume a lot more
memory than it has to (and may run out of stack and/or memory).

a better approach is to do two searches: first search for a "begin",
and once you've found that, look for an "end"

    import re

    pos = 0

    START = re.compile("begin")
    END = re.compile("end")

    while 1:
        m = START.search(text, pos)
        if not m:
            break
        start = m.end()
        m = END.search(text, start)
        if not m:
            break
        end = m.start()
        process(text[start:end])
        pos = m.end() # move forward

at this point, it's also obvious that you don't really have to use
regular expressions:

    pos = 0

    while 1:
        start = text.find("begin", pos)
        if start < 0:
            break
        start += 5
        end = text.find("end", start)
        if end < 0:
            break
        process(text[start:end])
        pos = end # move forward

</F>

<!-- (the eff-bot guide to) the python standard library (redux):
http://effbot.org/zone/librarybook-index.htm
-->







From jbar at lf1.cuni.cz  Thu Jul  3 08:12:27 2003
From: jbar at lf1.cuni.cz (Jiri Barton)
Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 14:12:27 +0200
Subject: How to setup webserver for Python
References: <mailman.1057223466.3796.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3f041dac@shknews01>

It is actually 'Options' not 'Option'

Try:
echo 'Options +ExecCGI' >.htaccess
in the console and see.

http://httpd.apache.org/docs/howto/cgi.html

HTH,  Jiri



From alanmk at hotmail.com  Sat Jul 19 10:59:16 2003
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 15:59:16 +0100
Subject: A challenge to the ASCII proponents.
References: <mailman.1058278343.23104.python-list@python.org> <bf167a$pvt$1@panix2.panix.com> <ufzl7rdno.fsf@online.no> <3F142A58.80426AA4@hotmail.com> <2259b0e2.0307161620.4a9353f1@posting.google.com> <Xns93BB246FDDBCFJanC@213.118.75.80> <3F168011.3AEB3EFC@hotmail.com> <3F172442.2040907@v.loewis.de> <oprsg8jf1xttxc4i@news.t-online.de>
Message-ID: <3F195CC4.D426E416@hotmail.com>

Martin v. Loewis

>> So what do you think about this message?:
>>
>> ????????????????
>>
>> Look Ma, no markup. And not every character uses two bytes, either.
>> And I can use Umlauts (??????) and Arabic (????????.????????????)
>> if I want to.

Florian Schulze wrote:

> And [it displays properly on] Opera (7.11). 
> I would also like to know what's the trick.

The final point I'd like to make [explicit] is: nobody had to ask me
how or why my xml snippet worked: there were no tricks. Nobody asked
for debugging information, or for reasons why they couldn't see it:
everyone saw/heard/felt it. Thus saving me a large amount of 
(time|effort|embarassment)+, helping people perceive what I was
saying,
or apologising to those that it slipped past.

One person, Bengt, said that he couldn't see it, but posted another
piece of very similar markup, i.e. (ht|x)ml, that worked for him and
everybody else.

simple-and-universally-interchangable-encodings-and-structures-are-a-honking-great-idea:-let's-do-more-of-those-ly
y'rs.

-- 
alan kennedy
-----------------------------------------------------
check http headers here: http://xhaus.com/headers
email alan:              http://xhaus.com/mailto/alan



From mertz at gnosis.cx  Tue Jul 15 12:41:48 2003
From: mertz at gnosis.cx (David Mertz, Ph.D.)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 12:41:48 -0400
Subject: [Announce] Gnosis Utils 1.1.0
Message-ID: <M7CF/kKkXk/P092yn@gnosis.cx>                

[Announce] Gnosis Utils 1.1.0

This release contains enhancements to gnosis.xml.objectify.

    Added _XO_.__repr__ method to make nodes print in a nicer,
    more compact fashion.

    Added ._seq attribute to node objects to support structure
    preserving convenience functions.  Specifically, older
    versions of gnosis.xml.objectify lost information about mixed
    content and the order of children.  E.g.,

      >>> xml = '<foo>Mixed <i>content</i> is <b>good</b></foo>'
      >>> obj = XO(xml,EXPAT).make_instance()
      >>> obj.PCDATA, obj.i.PCDATA, obj.b.PCDATA
      (u'Mixed is', u'content', u'good')

    We had no way of knowing where inside <foo> the <i> and the
    <b> occur, nor even which child element occurs first.

    Now we can recover that information:

      >>> from gnosis.xml.objectify import content, children
      >>> content(obj)
      [u'Mixed ', <i id="30264c">, u' is ', <b id="30292c">]
      >>> children(obj)
      [<i id="30264c">, <b id="30292c">]

    Sequence information and convenience methods are NOT
    SUPPORTED (yet?) for the DOM parser, only for EXPAT!

    Changed default parser to EXPAT.  If you have relied on the
    special attribute ._XML that the DOM parser attaches to
    nodes, you will now need to explicitly specify DOM as the
    parser used.  However, the new sequence functions pretty well
    handle the job pyobj._XML used to do (in a different way).

    Some newer versions of PyXML report CDATA as #cdata-section
    nodes rather than as #text.  We deal with it either way now.

It may be obtained at:

    http://gnosis.python-hosting.com/Gnosis_Utils-1.1.0.tar.gz

(this URL is different from usual since my main site was slashdotted,
and I'm worried about my monthly bandwidth limit; I'll copy the file
to its regular home next month).

Try it out, have fun, send feedback!

David Mertz (mertz at gnosis.cx)
Frank McIngvale (frankm at hiwaay.net)

------------------------------------------------------------------------

BACKGROUND:  Gnosis Utilities contains a number of Python libraries, most
(but not all) related to working with XML.  These include:

    gnosis.indexer          (Full-text indexing/searching)
    gnosis.xml.pickle       (XML pickling of Python objects)
    gnosis.xml.objectify    (Any XML to "native" Python objects)
    gnosis.xml.validity     (Enforce validity constraints)
    gnosis.xml.indexer      (XPATH indexing of XML documents)
    [...].convert.txt2html  (Convert ASCII source files to HTML)
    gnosis.util.dtd2sql     (DTD -> SQL 'CREATE TABLE' statements)
    gnosis.util.sql2dtd     (SQL query -> DTD for query results)
    gnosis.util.xml2sql     (XML -> SQL 'INSERT INTO' statements)
    gnosis.util.combinators (Combinatorial higher-order functions)
    gnosis.util.introspect  (Introspect Python objects)
    gnosis.magic            (Multimethods, metaclasses, etc)

...and so much more! :-)





From steve at ferg.org  Fri Jul  4 11:37:41 2003
From: steve at ferg.org (Stephen Ferg)
Date: 4 Jul 2003 08:37:41 -0700
Subject: Python is a gem, you need to keep pushing it ....
References: <0gVMa.126$a%1.9289@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au>
Message-ID: <b16e4ef7.0307040737.3648b613@posting.google.com>

Absolutely!  Gotta keep pushing!

If you get into a situation where a presentation -- to management, or
to other programmers -- would be useful, I've created what I hope will
be a helpful resource -- the Python Slideshow Presentations page:

http://www.ferg.org/python_presentations/index.html

-- Steve Ferg



From GavinT at ResMed.com.au  Thu Jul 17 20:08:17 2003
From: GavinT at ResMed.com.au (Gavin Tomlins)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 10:08:17 +1000
Subject: ps in windows
Message-ID: <BFE6A582D4E7C4408B28C922F9D558427EFEFE@canary.corp.resmed.org>

He, He, Gerhard has evolved

he used to say
----snip----
Btw. I knew it was possible, but still was using a search engine to
quickly find the link. The http://google.com keywords I used were
"python windows process list".

-- Gerhard

----snip----

windows vs win32 subtle ;-) (Yes I have to much time on my hands this
morning). 

Alternatively Jeff, you can go have a look at the great Australian, Mark
Hammond's  (if only he was a Queenslander) Windows Programming with Python
or on his starship pages (follow the links from the Python.org homepage.

Regards

Gavin

-----Original Message-----
From: Gerhard H?ring [mailto:gh at ghaering.de]
Sent: Friday, 18 July 2003 9:58 AM
To: python-list at python.org
Subject: Re: ps in windows


Jeff Sandys wrote:
> Not really a Python question except I will use Python to write the
> script.
> 
> I have several Windows98SE PCs and a Linux PC on a home network.
> I want the Linux PC running a cron job to query the Windows PCs to find
> out what programs they are running.
> Any pointers on how to do this?

If I had this problem what I'd do is go to http://groups.google.com/ and 
search for the keywords "python win32 list processes" ;-)

-- Gerhard

-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


Warning:  Copyright ResMed.  Where the contents of this email and/or attachment includes materials prepared by ResMed, the use of those materials is subject exclusively to the conditions of engagement between ResMed and the intended recipient.

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From bokr at oz.net  Sun Jul 13 13:00:11 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 13 Jul 2003 17:00:11 GMT
Subject: Python - if/else statements
References: <pan.2003.07.11.19.34.16.330762@yahoo.com> <ben6uf$tcr$0@216.39.172.122> <pan.2003.07.11.23.16.08.781512@yahoo.com> <benpvl$9kj$0@216.39.172.122> <pan.2003.07.12.02.27.29.730366@yahoo.com> <beq4io$19r$0@216.39.172.122> <pan.2003.07.13.00.30.47.81216@yahoo.com> <beqlfp$21k$0@216.39.172.122> <pan.2003.07.13.04.40.33.630099@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <bes36r$cpo$0@216.39.172.122>

On Sun, 13 Jul 2003 16:40:39 +1200, dmbkiwi <dmbkiwi at yahoo.com> wrote:

>On Sun, 13 Jul 2003 03:59:53 +0000, Bengt Richter wrote:
>
[...]
>> BTW, since you uploaded it, is there an URL for it?
>
>http://www.kdelook.org/content/show.php?content=6384
>
I get a tar file, but winzip thinks it's broken. Usually it handles them fine.

03-07-13  09:34                507,442 6384-weather_liquid_py-0_7_2_tar.tar

[ 9:51] C:\pywk\clp\dmbkiwi>lsm *tar
3912fe9836d69ec9004da899e08e352e 6384-weather_liquid_py-0_7_2_tar.tar

That's the MD5 digest, same as from (in case you want to check against a known good you have):

[ 9:52] C:\pywk\clp\dmbkiwi>python D:\Python22\Tools\Scripts\md5sum.py 6384-weather_liquid_py-0_7_2_tar.tar
3912fe9836d69ec9004da899e08e352e 6384-weather_liquid_py-0_7_2_tar.tar

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From martin_a_clausen at hotmail.com  Wed Jul 23 06:52:21 2003
From: martin_a_clausen at hotmail.com (Mars)
Date: 23 Jul 2003 03:52:21 -0700
Subject: How does Mr. Martelli's Borg recipe work ?
References: <764b8294.0307221520.18017b09@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <764b8294.0307230252.4014eb82@posting.google.com>

Thanks guys - as I thought - basic stuff I had gotten wrong.

Regards,

Martin



From me at privacy.net  Wed Jul 30 11:55:51 2003
From: me at privacy.net (Heather Coppersmith)
Date: 30 Jul 2003 11:55:51 -0400
Subject: changing the List's behaviour?
References: <mailman.1059338081.22895.python-list@python.org> <bg36kj$jcr$02$1@news.t-online.com> <m2brveyc1l.fsf@host200-null.null.bellsouth.net> <bg8ort$mgl$03$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <m2oezcvwjc.fsf@host200-null.null.bellsouth.net>

On Wed, 30 Jul 2003 17:36:12 +0200,
Peter Otten <__peter__ at web.de> wrote:

> Heather Coppersmith wrote:
>>> class DefaultList(list):
>>> def __init__(self, sequence=[], default=None):
>                 list.init(self, sequence)
>> 
>> That's asking for trouble.  That mutable default argument for
>> sequence is evaluated at class definition-time, and all instances
>> of DefaultList created without a sequence argument will end up
>> sharing one list.
>> 
>> Do this instead:
>> 
>> class DefaultList( list ):
>>     def __init__( self, sequence = None, default = None ):
>>          if sequence is None:
>>             sequence = [ ]
>> 
>>> list.__init__(self, sequence)

> I can see the trouble only if the sequence argument is used to initialize a
> member, e.g.

> def __init__(self, seq=[]):
>         self.seq = seq # bad, multiple instances may share one list

> However, in the DefaultList case, sequence is never changed.
> So I don't see what can go wrong. Am I overlooking something?

> - Peter

Oops, my mistake.  ;-)

Regards,
Heather

-- 
Heather Coppersmith
That's not right; that's not even wrong. -- Wolfgang Pauli




From fredrik at pythonware.com  Thu Jul 10 13:18:43 2003
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 19:18:43 +0200
Subject: Deleting specific characters from a string
References: <1057847111.3f0d77471178b@mcherm.com>
Message-ID: <bek746$amt$1@main.gmane.org>

Michael Chermside wrote:

> RE's are NOT renown for their speed when doing simple character
> replacement, deletion or insertion on strings. But _I_ haven't timed
> it either, so I'm going to shut up now.

I rewrote the re.sub implementation for 2.2, making it about 10 times
faster for cases like this (compared to the 2.1 version).

if you precompile the regexp, p.sub(text, "") is nearly as fast as the
translate method under 2.3.  ymmv.

</F>







From gh at ghaering.de  Sun Jul 20 15:38:58 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 21:38:58 +0200
Subject: "Pure Python" MySQL module like Net::MySQL
In-Reply-To: <bfeo9h$20o$1@eeyore.INS.cwru.edu>
References: <bfddmi$7nk$1@eeyore.INS.cwru.edu>
	<mailman.1058706631.15074.python-list@python.org>
	<bfeo9h$20o$1@eeyore.INS.cwru.edu>
Message-ID: <3F1AEFD2.6090707@ghaering.de>

Ravi wrote:
> Gerhard H?ring wrote:
>  >
> 
>> Is there any particular reason why you'd need such a beast instead of 
>> just using MySQLdb?
>>
> I'm developing for cell phones/PDA's using Jython, because Java is 
> available. Yet, a proper C compiler is not, so libmysql cannot be 
> compiled. I will see if I can put a wrapper on the Java MySQL connector 
> to make it accessible in Jython.

No need for that, just download zxJDBC :)

-- Gerhard




From hans at deragon.biz  Sat Jul  5 11:24:26 2003
From: hans at deragon.biz (Hans Deragon)
Date: 5 Jul 2003 08:24:26 -0700
Subject: Red Hat 9, Python and Glade - a mixure not working?
Message-ID: <c7427279.0307050724.147536d1@posting.google.com>

Greetings.


  Total newbie to Glade here.  I created an interface using glade-2
and I want to use it with my python program.  Following is what I
wrote (test prg):

-------------------------
#!/usr/bin/python

import gtk
import gtk.glade
import sys

def on_button4_clicked(source=None, event=None):
  sys.exit();

gtk.glade.XML('project3.glade')
xml.autoconnect({
  'on_button4_clicked': on_button4_clicked
})

gtk.main()
-------------------------

  Now when I am running it, I get the following error:

-------------------------
(run2.py:11714): GLib-GObject-CRITICAL **: file gobject.c: line 1002
(g_object_get): assertion `G_IS_OBJECT (object)' failed

(run2.py:11714): GLib-GObject-CRITICAL **: file gobject.c: line 1002
(g_object_get): assertion `G_IS_OBJECT (object)' failed
Erreur de segmentation
-------------------------

  I am running redhat 9 with the lastest updates and glade-2.  Anybody
has a clue how to get it running?  Is there a python program that
comes in one of RH 9 packages that makes use of glade?  I could use it
as an example.


Regards,
Hans Deragon



From megalith at btinternet.com  Thu Jul 24 15:46:24 2003
From: megalith at btinternet.com (Gordon Chapman)
Date: 24 Jul 2003 12:46:24 -0700
Subject: Regex: Limiting Scope without capturing results
Message-ID: <173ef463.0307240355.cf896bb@posting.google.com>

Right, this has had me scratching my head for a while.

I want to limit the scope of an OR without using ()s as I don't want
to capture that specific result, I'm trying to split a multistatement
line up into a series of single statement lines, the multi statement
line is of the format;

Surface "/work/master/shaders/surface/surface_s07b" "color
VAR_EYE_COL1_TINT" [ 0.239215686275 0.2 0.2 ] "color
VAR_EYE_COL2_TINT" [ 0.4 0.301960784314 0.25 ] "color
VAR_EYE_COL3_TINT" [ 0.749019607843 0.749019607843 0.701960784314 ]
"color VAR_TEX_TINT" [ 0.0 0.0 0.0 ] "color diff_shadow_colour" [ 0 0
0 ] "color diff_tint" [ 1 1 1 ] "color env_sea_colour" [ 0.03 0.08
0.02 ] "color rim_shadow_colour" [ 0 0 0 ] "color rim_tint" [ 1 1 1 ]
"color spec_shadow_colour" [ 0 0 0 ] "color specmap_filter" [ 1 1 1 ]
"color specmap_shadow_colour" [ 0 0 0 ] "color surface_colour" [ 1 1 1
] ....

Now I have a pattern that kinda works fine when I use p.split with
capture parentheses, the first match is the complete string, but then
it gives me substring matches like "color", then the param name, then
the value, when all I want is the first string;

p = re.compile('\s+(\"(string|float|color)\s(\S+)\"\s\[\s*([0-9.
]+|\"\S*\")\s+\])')

Obviously I can just ignore the extraneous information, but I'd rather
come up with a neater way to do it (taking the easy way out also
rather defeats the purpose of this as an academic exercise :)

If I remove the ()s around the string|float|color match it stops
matching anything, so is there an alternative to these ? Or a way of
telling them to limit the scope of the match without capturing the
result ?

Thanks.

G.



From martin at v.loewis.de  Sun Jul 13 05:09:54 2003
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-15?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 13 Jul 2003 11:09:54 +0200
Subject: Windows XP - Environment variable - Unicode
References: <3f0e77fc@epflnews.epfl.ch> <vgvtb26kob5035@news.supernews.com> <3F10795B.9000501@v.loewis.de> <vh27ooiajenv87@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <m33chakd25.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

"John Roth" <newsgroups at jhrothjr.com> writes:

> The OP's question revolved around ***which*** code page was
> being used internally. Windows uses Unicode. That's not the same
> question as what code set Python uses to attempt to translate Unicode
> into a single byte character set.

Yes and no. What Windows uses is largely irrelevant, as Python does
not use Windows here. Instead, it uses the Microsoft C library, in
which environment variables are *not* stored in some Unicode encoding,
when accessed through the _environ pointer.

> As to more difficult, as I said above, I haven't perused the source,
> so I can't comment on that. If I had to do it myself, I'd probably
> start out by always using the Unicode variant of the Windows API
> call, and then check the type of the arguement to environ() to determine
> which to pass back. I'm not sure whether or not I'd throw an exception
> if the actual value couldn't be translated to the current SBCS code.

Notice that os.environ is not a function, but a dictionary. So there
is no system call involved when retrieving an environment
variable. Instead, they are all precomputed.

> On reading this over, it does sound a bit more strident than my
> responses usually do, but I will admit to being irritated at the
> assumption that you need to read the source to find out the
> answer to various questions.

If the question is "how does software Foo do something", the *only*
reliable way is to read the source. You may have a mental model that
may allow you to give an educated guess how Foo *might* do
something. In this case, your educated guess was wrong, that's why I
referred you to the source.

Regards,
Martin




From jjl at pobox.com  Mon Jul 14 20:51:54 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 15 Jul 2003 01:51:54 +0100
Subject: The ASPN compiler
References: <u8gugvovob6k3jou2oi4olsr6mp1fbqlqn@4ax.com> <mailman.1057969337.5637.python-list@python.org> <c9d82136.0307120941.63540143@posting.google.com> <4868482a.0307141418.a45699e@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <87smp8d32t.fsf@pobox.com>

clpy.NOSPAM at russellsalsbury.com (Russ Salsbury) writes:
[...]
> Well, folks, I actually went off and read the paper.  In spite of the
> declaration of success at the end of the paper, the project appears to
> have been just an academic proof of principle exercise.  The compiler
> is too slow to be of practical use and not much of the much of the
[...]

Since all they wanted to demonstrate was that "the .NET runtime and
Intermediate Language were capable of supporting the language", I
think somebody should have told Microsoft about this guy called
Turing.  With great foresight <wink>, he proved that the .NET runtime
*is* capable of supporting Python, which should have saved Mark & Greg
all that hard work.  <0.5 wink>


John



From bignose-hates-spam at and-benfinney-does-too.id.au  Tue Jul 29 22:26:07 2003
From: bignose-hates-spam at and-benfinney-does-too.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: 30 Jul 2003 12:16:07 +0950
Subject: Convert a number to it name...
References: <daf62359.0307291831.2fea6592@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <slrnbiecbf.97t.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>

On 29 Jul 2003 19:31:47 -0700, Mauro Baraldi wrote:
> Someone can help how to convert a number to [words].

Found on my first Google search:

    <http://sourceforge.net/projects/pynum2word/>

-- 
 \       "Yesterday I told a chicken to cross the road. It said, 'What |
  `\                                          for?'"  -- Steven Wright |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney <http://bignose.squidly.org/>



From rnd at onego.ru  Wed Jul  9 15:53:14 2003
From: rnd at onego.ru (Roman Suzi)
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 23:53:14 +0400 (MSD)
Subject: Guido.moves_to(California) ?
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0307092346440.30588-100000@rnd.onego.ru>

Reading PythonDev I've just found this

GvR:
"""
  Last night at OSCON I announced that I am moving to California.  I
  have accepted a new job at Elemental Security, a security software
  startup in San Mateo.  You may have heard of one of the founders, Dan
  Farmer, who is the (co-)author of several well-known free security
  checking programs: Satan, Titan and The Coroner's Toolkit.
  ...
"""

I was not very surprised to hear that, but I wonder if it means
new licenses coming:


>>> license()


    Release         Derived     Year        Owner       GPL-
                    from                                compatible? (1)

    0.9.0 thru 1.2              1991-1995   CWI         yes
    1.3 thru 1.5.2  1.2         1995-1999   CNRI        yes
    1.6             1.5.2       2000        CNRI        no
    2.0             1.6         2000        BeOpen.com  no
    1.6.1           1.6         2001        CNRI        yes (2)
    2.1             2.0+1.6.1   2001        PSF         no
    2.0.1           2.0+1.6.1   2001        PSF         yes
    2.1.1           2.1+2.0.1   2001        PSF         yes
    2.2             2.1.1       2001        PSF         yes
    2.1.2           2.1.1       2002        PSF         yes
    2.1.3           2.1.2       2002        PSF         yes
    2.2.1           2.2         2002        PSF         yes
    2.2.2           2.2.1       2002        PSF         yes
    2.3             2.2.2       2002-2003   PSF         yes

Good luck to Guido!


Sincerely yours, Roman Suzi
-- 
rnd at onego.ru =\= My AI powered by GNU/Linux RedHat 7.3





From bokr at oz.net  Tue Jul 29 01:48:49 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 29 Jul 2003 05:48:49 GMT
Subject: pretty printing graphs
References: <mailman.1059413382.3564.python-list@python.org> <2259b0e2.0307281530.218400ae@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bg51s1$qp2$0@216.39.172.122>

On 28 Jul 2003 16:30:03 -0700, mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato) wrote:

>"Scherer, Bill" <Bill.Scherer at verizonwireless.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.1059413382.3564.python-list at python.org>...
>
>Hey "dot" is great! I didn't know about it before readin your post.
>
>In a very short time I came out with the following recipe to draw
>Python inheritance hierarchies (which I post since it is pretty
>short and useful ;):
>
Well, here's the version with connectors:

====< pptree.py >===============================================
# pptree.py v 0.01 -- 20030728 22:20:17 bokr

class TextBox:
    def __init__(self, text):
        self.text = text
        lines = text.splitlines()
        self.bb = len(lines)+2, max(map(len, lines))+2 # rows,cols bounding box
    def __str__(self):
        return self.text 

class Node:
    PageHeight = 6*11; PageWidth = 78
    def __repr__(self): return '<Node w/ text %r ...>'%self.textBox.text.splitlines()[0]
    def treebb(self):  # tree bb incl this node
        childMaxHeight, childTotWidth = 0, 0
        for child in self.children:
            h, w = child.treebb()
            childMaxHeight = max(childMaxHeight, h)
            childTotWidth += w
        ret = childMaxHeight+self.textBox.bb[0], max(childTotWidth, self.textBox.bb[1])
        return ret
    def __init__(self, textBox):
        self.textBox = textBox
        self.children = []

    def boxlines(node, boxHeight, boxWidth):
        oh, ow = node.textBox.bb    # this node top text box bb
        th, tw = node.treebb()      # minimal child tree bb incl text box at top
        
        render = ['']*boxHeight
        ofmt = '|%%%ds|'% (ow-2)
        render[0] = ('+'+'-'*(ow-2)+'+').center(boxWidth)
        iLine=1
        for line in node.textBox.text.splitlines():
            render[iLine] = (ofmt%line).center(boxWidth)
            iLine += 1
        render[iLine] = render[0]
        iLine += 1
        if node.children:
            availSepSpaces = boxWidth - tw
            nch = len(node.children)
            sep = nch>1 and availSepSpaces//nch or 0
            childBoxes = []
            for child in node.children:
                chh, chw = child.treebb()
                childBoxes.append(child.boxlines(boxHeight-oh-1, sep and chw+sep or boxWidth))
            cbhs = map(len, childBoxes); assert max(cbhs)==min(cbhs) # all child boxes same ht
            # do connector line (with wasteful repetition)
            conn = ''.join(['+'.center(sep and child.treebb()[1]+sep or boxWidth)
                    for child in node.children])
            conn = conn.center(boxWidth)
            first = conn.find('+'); last = conn.rfind('+')
            conn = conn[:first] + conn[first:last].replace(' ','-') + conn[last:]
            center = '+'.center(boxWidth).find('+') # whatever the alg is
            conn = list(conn); conn[center]='|'; conn = ''.join(conn)
            render[iLine] = conn
            for iChildline in xrange(cbhs[0]):
                iLine += 1
                render[iLine] = ''.join(
                    [childBox[iChildline] for childBox in childBoxes]
                ).center(boxWidth)

        for iLine in range(boxHeight):
            if not render[iLine]: render[iLine] = ' '*boxWidth
        return render
        
    def __str__(self):
        return '\n'.join(self.boxlines(self.PageHeight, self.PageWidth))

    def showInPage(self, pageHeight=6*11, pageWidth=78):
        return '\n'.join(self.boxlines(pageHeight, pageWidth))

def test(height,width): # dimensions of chart
    # Example hierarchy    
    O = object
    class F(O): pass
    class E(O): pass
    class D(O): pass
    class G(O): pass
    class C(F,D,G): pass
    class B(E,D): pass
    class A(B,C): pass
    
    def explore(cls, tree):
        node = Node(TextBox(cls.__name__))
        tree.children.append(node)
        for b in cls.__bases__: explore(b, node)
    
    root = Node(TextBox('root'))
    explore(A, root)
    print
    print root.children[0].showInPage(height, width)
    
if __name__ == '__main__':
    import sys; args = sys.argv[1:]
    height = args and int(args.pop(0)) or 20
    width  = args and int(args.pop(0)) or 60
    test(height,width)
================================================================
Results: first 50 wide, then 90

[22:54] C:\pywk\clp>pptree.py 20 50

                       +-+
                       |A|
                       +-+
          +-------------|----------+
         +-+                      +-+
         |B|                      |C|
         +-+                      +-+
     +----|----+          +--------|--------+
    +-+       +-+        +-+      +-+      +-+
    |E|       |D|        |F|      |D|      |G|
    +-+       +-+        +-+      +-+      +-+
     |         |          |        |        |
  +------+  +------+   +------+ +------+ +------+
  |object|  |object|   |object| |object| |object|
  +------+  +------+   +------+ +------+ +------+

[22:54] C:\pywk\clp>pptree.py 20 90

                                           +-+
                                           |A|
                                           +-+
                    +-----------------------|--------------------+
                   +-+                                          +-+
                   |B|                                          |C|
                   +-+                                          +-+
          +---------|---------+                  +---------------|---------------+
         +-+                 +-+                +-+             +-+             +-+
         |E|                 |D|                |F|             |D|             |G|
         +-+                 +-+                +-+             +-+             +-+
          |                   |                  |               |               |
       +------+            +------+           +------+        +------+        +------+
       |object|            |object|           |object|        |object|        |object|
       +------+            +------+           +------+        +------+        +------+

The code is pretty hacky, but I wanted to show the art ;-)

BTW, TextBox can accept a multiline string, and finds the bounding box (without trimming blanks).

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From imbosol at aerojockey.com  Thu Jul 24 19:00:45 2003
From: imbosol at aerojockey.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 23:00:45 GMT
Subject: very Very VERY dumb Question About The new Set( ) 's
References: <20030723144732.13232.00000523@mb-m10.aol.com> <3f205d3c.745868662@news.blueyonder.co.uk>
Message-ID: <xyZTa.23921$0F4.20108@nwrdny02.gnilink.net>

Alan Gauld wrote:
> On 23 Jul 2003 18:47:32 GMT, rastm2 at aol.commorespam (Raymond
> Arthur St. Marie II of III ) wrote:
> 
>> Doc\ref 2.6 Delimiters show's three unused characters "@ $ ?".
>> @ sort of looks like and sort of sounds like a set an 
>> $  well sort of obvious. 
>> I can imagine that the $ would be confused for money and @ is ugly.
> 
> Since I detest any thought of prefix symbols to indicate type(as
> per Perl etc) but have no visibility of these debates, I'll throw
> in my suggestion and done a flameproof suit!
> 
> Since both dictionaries and Sets require unique members/keys, 
> why not use the dictionary braces but without the key/value
> syntax. So:
> 
> mySet = {1,2,3,4}
> 
> Which is illegal for a dictionary but would be OK for a Set.
> It also just happens to be the same delimiters used in math 
> for sets...
> 
> Just a thought before I go to bed! :-)


+1 if Python's parser could handle it (which seems dubious).


-- 
CARL BANKS



From donhiatt at acm.org  Tue Jul 15 17:42:20 2003
From: donhiatt at acm.org (Don Hiatt)
Date: 15 Jul 2003 14:42:20 -0700
Subject: Mac OS X, Fink, Python, and web browser
References: <pdacncvRO_lmnomiU-KYuQ@ctc.net>
Message-ID: <2b012c5e.0307151342.e5db114@posting.google.com>

Joe Heafner <heafnerj at spam.vnet.net> wrote in message news:<pdacncvRO_lmnomiU-KYuQ at ctc.net>...
> Hi.
> I'm running Mac OS X (10.2.6), Fink 0.5.3, Python2.2 and all requisite 
> Could someone please tell me where and how to get IDLE_fork to use Safari 
> (1.0)? 

You can change your default web browser to Safari using the preferences
pane (under internet, I believe). If IDLE_fork uses the default browser
property then Safari should launch.

Cheers,

don



From phil at riverbankcomputing.co.uk  Wed Jul 30 04:43:03 2003
From: phil at riverbankcomputing.co.uk (Phil Thompson)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 09:43:03 +0100
Subject: PyQt Help and Advice
In-Reply-To: <pan.2003.07.30.00.31.50.414157@cs.rit.edu>
References: <bg636k$408g$1@netnews.upenn.edu> <mailman.1059520783.12994.python-list@python.org> <pan.2003.07.30.00.31.50.414157@cs.rit.edu>
Message-ID: <200307300943.03118.phil@riverbankcomputing.co.uk>

On Wednesday 30 July 2003 1:27 am, Keith Jones wrote:
> On Wed, 30 Jul 2003 00:18:32 +0100, Phil Thompson wrote:
> > To correct one misconception...
> >
> > PyQt was first released on November 1st 1998. There have been 34 releases
> > in all. The next release, including support for Qt v3.2.0, will be around
> > August 12th. It isn't new.
> >
> > Phil
>
> Phil,
>
> Any idea when Qt3.2 will have noncommercial support in windows?

That's a question for Trolltech. I would certainly expect Qt v4 to be released 
first.

Phil




From nagylzs at freemail.hu  Fri Jul 11 13:39:37 2003
From: nagylzs at freemail.hu (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Nagy_L=E1szl=F3_Zsolt?=)
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 19:39:37 +0200
Subject: Securing 'pickle'
References: <pan.2003.07.11.01.20.47.998070@127.0.0.1> <slrnbgs4hc.hop.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local> <7x1xwxu98y.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <3F0E1875.574DC6D7@alcyone.com> <7xk7ap3j6z.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <3F0EE2E1.1C30CEA4@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <3F0EF659.2020100@freemail.hu>

>
>
>  
>
>>My suggestion is to
>>authenticate the cookies with a cryptographic checksum and verify the
>>authentication before deserializing the cookies.  That's probably the
>>simplest approach.  Keeping session info on a multi-process server (or
>>worse, a multi-server network) needs some kind of concurrent storage
>>mechanism.  
>>    
>>
>
>Paul,
>
>Do you mean transmit the checksum to the client with the cookie? And
>check that they match when the cookie and checksum come back?
>
>Or is the checksum stored on the server, in some form of lookup
>dictionary keyed by some user session identifier?
>
I think he wanted to write a digital signature instead. Right?

Laci 1.0

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From andy at wild-flower.co.uk  Fri Jul 18 08:46:17 2003
From: andy at wild-flower.co.uk (Andy Jewell)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 13:46:17 +0100
Subject: scanf string in python
In-Reply-To: <fvNRa.22$%J2.3@news.get2net.dk>
References: <bf7ut5$vf8$03$1@news.t-online.com> <bf81ih$nea$06$1@news.t-online.com> <fvNRa.22$%J2.3@news.get2net.dk>
Message-ID: <200307181346.17148.andy@wild-flower.co.uk>

On Friday 18 Jul 2003 8:39 am, J?rgen Cederberg wrote:
> lehrig wrote:
> > lehrig wrote:
> >>I have a string which is returned by a C extension.
> >>
> >>mystring = '(1,2,3)'
> >>
> >>HOW can I read the numbers in python ?
> >
> > Now I have done it like this:
> >   tmp = mystring[1:-1]
> >   tmplist = string.split(tmp,',')
> >   x = int(tmplist[0])
> >   y = int(tmplist[1])
> >   z = int(tmplist[2])
> >
> > But there should be a more convenient solution.
>
> Hi,
>
> some have suggested map, exec and re's. I came up with this list
> comprehenion
>
>  >>> mystring = '(1,2,3)'
>  >>> mynumbers = [int(i) for i in mystring[1:-1].split(',')]
>  >>> mynumbers
>
> [1, 2, 3]
>
> regards
> Jorgen Cederberg

what about:

x,y,z=eval(mystring)

???
see:

>>> x,y,z=eval(mystring)
>>> x,y,z
(1, 2, 3)
>>> x
1
>>> y
2
>>> z

NOTE: this could introduce exploitable behaviour if you can't guarantee that 
the string is *only* going to contain a tuple of nembers... think about what 
could happen if the  c code returned 'ReallyNastyFunc()' instead of 
"(1,2,3)"... :-(.  As long as you can guarantee the value won't be 
'dangerous' you'll be ok.

hth -ndyj






From drs at ecp.cc  Wed Jul  9 03:40:27 2003
From: drs at ecp.cc (drs)
Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 07:40:27 GMT
Subject: Deleting specific characters from a string
References: <begfb3$7j6$1@online.de>
Message-ID: <LFPOa.14297$BM.4552346@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com>

"Behrang Dadsetan" <ben at dadsetan.com> wrote in message
news:begfb3$7j6$1 at online.de...
> Hi all,
>
> I would like deleting specific characters from a string.
> As an example, I would like to delete all of the '@' '&' in the string
> 'You are ben at orange?enter&your&code' so that it becomes
> 'benorange?enteryourcode'.
>
> So far I have been doing it like:
> str = 'You are ben at orange?enter&your&code'
> str = ''.join([ c for c in str if c not in ('@', '&')])
>
> but that looks so ugly.. I am hoping to see nicer examples to acheive
> the above..

you can use the replace method of the string object
>>>  'You are ben at orange?enter&your&code'.replace('@', '').replace('&', '')
'You are benorange?enteryourcode'

-d





From jorgencederberg at hotmail.com  Fri Jul 18 03:39:54 2003
From: jorgencederberg at hotmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F8rgen_Cederberg?=)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 09:39:54 +0200
Subject: scanf string in python
In-Reply-To: <bf81ih$nea$06$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <bf7ut5$vf8$03$1@news.t-online.com> <bf81ih$nea$06$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <fvNRa.22$%J2.3@news.get2net.dk>

lehrig wrote:
> lehrig wrote:
> 
> 
>>I have a string which is returned by a C extension.
>>
>>mystring = '(1,2,3)'
>>
>>HOW can I read the numbers in python ?
> 
> 
> Now I have done it like this:
>   tmp = mystring[1:-1]
>   tmplist = string.split(tmp,',')
>   x = int(tmplist[0])
>   y = int(tmplist[1])
>   z = int(tmplist[2])
> 
> But there should be a more convenient solution.

Hi,

some have suggested map, exec and re's. I came up with this list 
comprehenion

 >>> mystring = '(1,2,3)'
 >>> mynumbers = [int(i) for i in mystring[1:-1].split(',')]
 >>> mynumbers
[1, 2, 3]

regards
Jorgen Cederberg




From max at alcyone.com  Mon Jul 14 21:04:40 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 18:04:40 -0700
Subject: anything like C++ references?
References: <000301c348c7$3c501980$21795418@dell1700> <sag3hv4vf884ed7ouu5cv8ofnopp9j1t12@4ax.com> <bet1sd$ibl$1@panix3.panix.com> <sfa4hvkq1j7rg1iga5j3tk2cc4qpr6e5qk@4ax.com> <beueis$b1d$1@panix3.panix.com> <78c6hvgu599ku5denkkl7pgmd4n13t460i@4ax.com> <roy-204535.19175914072003@reader1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <3F135328.89C1F89C@alcyone.com>

Roy Smith wrote:

> The wierd thing is that I don't think either one really matches what a
> mathematician means when he writes "=".  In math, "=" is neither an
> assignment or a test: it's an assertion.

Right.  In fact, when a mathematician really does mean rebinding, they
use an operator decidely unlike =, often :=, <-, <=, or some other
similar ASCIIzation.  The equals sign in mathematics does not mean the
same thing it does in modern programming languages.  It's just something
that one has to deal with early on or be forever annoyed.

It's arguable that the Pascal family has the most mathematics-like
operations for equality and assignment here, but really it's just a
semantic issue of knowing which operator means what.  One can even get
used to things like % means string formatting if one really tries :-).

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ Does the true light / Of love come in flashes
\__/  Sandra St. Victor



From grobinson at transpose.com  Wed Jul  2 15:41:48 2003
From: grobinson at transpose.com (Gary Robinson)
Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 15:41:48 -0400
Subject: Signal-handling question
Message-ID: <BB28ADBC.28BCE%grobinson@transpose.com>

In some code we're writing we're making an assumption, and I'd like to
confirm that the assumption is valid.

Suppose a signal arrives while a file is being written, and the signal
handler explicitly raises a SystemExit exception.

My understanding is that the C-level I/O code will continue and the signal
won't be processed until the end of the atomic python interpreter
instruction that invoked that C code.

Then, the signal handler is executed, including the SystemExit.

Are we guaranteed that there are no circumstances under which any more file
I/O will be carried out by the interrupted code after the signal handler is
invoked? That is, are we guaranteed that the SystemExit raised by the signal
handler will immediately terminate the interrupted call to write()?

The answer seems to be "obviously YES" but I need to be sure so I thought it
was worth asking.

Thanks--

--Gary

-- 
Putting http://wecanstopspam.org in your email helps it pass through
overzealous spam filters.

Gary Robinson
CEO
Transpose, LLC
grobinson at transpose.com
207-942-3463
http://www.transpose.com
http://radio.weblogs.com/0101454






From intentionally at blank.co.uk  Wed Jul 16 15:41:54 2003
From: intentionally at blank.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 20:41:54 +0100
Subject: anything like C++ references?
References: <b8c3hvsesjoumiboobml3nsnajtha99mp1@4ax.com> <mailman.1058129901.28248.python-list@python.org> <plk3hv0s1m2egf4s34jo6vjedk0q8r2mu9@4ax.com> <m365m6ul5c.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <mailman.1058145500.19181.python-list@python.org> <e464hvcq48q3240ecfcs6jqhqf616q7v1a@4ax.com> <3F1256C0.4BDC816F@alcyone.com> <vdl6hvckre5pms4n8bcn0nf1ma09ikse0f@4ax.com> <bf1ocu$jeq$0@216.39.172.122> <i5r8hvk57sjpagf2bnttov2h4qohg0pjq2@4ax.com> <bf2n7o$bri$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <747bhv8r2h398bv121seft4spukd6bcsug@4ax.com>

On 16 Jul 2003 05:18:48 GMT, bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) wrote:

>>Copies are only made when they are needed. The lazy copy optimisation,
>>in other words, still exists.
>(BTW, don't get hung up on this part, ok? Skip forward to the ==[ code part ]==
>below if you're going to skip ;-)
>
>Ok, so the copy happens at b[2]=4 right? This is still useless copying
>if the holder of the "a" reference *wants* to have it as a continuing
>reference to the same single shared list. And you can program that in C++
>if you want to, and you presumably would. Except now you have to create pointer variable.

If you want to share a single object, you need an explicit way to do
it.

Let me use an analogy from a discussion held elsewhere but on a
related subject.

In Algol and Fortran were among the earliest high level languages.
There were, I believe, called 'third generation' (assembler as opposed
to machine code being the second generation). Hence the name of
'forth' (which was supposed to be ever higher level, though IMO it is
a lower level language) and also the term '4GL' that was heavily used
for languages like SQL at one time.

Anyway, Algol and Fortran apparently (I didn't know this until today)
*always* used call-by-reference.

So why is it that all C parameters are call-by-value (though the value
may be a pointer) and Pascal parameters are call-by-value by default?

This is new to me - my first experiences of C and Pascal was at an age
when the whos-language-is-better rows were about Pascal providing
call-by-reference. To me, the distinction is that C is lower level -
closer to what you'd do in assembler or machine code - whereas Pascal
is higher level. You can pass pointers in Pascal to achieve the same
goal as a 'var' parameter, but 'var' better expresses why you are
doing it.

I had assumed, therefore, that there had been a natural progression
from low-level assembler - that earlier high level languages would
either be like C or like Pascal, depending on just how high level they
are. But that's not true. Algol and Fortran both used
call-by-reference, and that somewhat established tradition was
rejected when C and Pascal were being developed.

Why the rejection? On a point of principle. When parameters are
call-by-reference by default, it allows accidental side-effects.
Sometimes, functions change parameters that callers aren't expecting
them to change.

When changing one identifier can affect another by default, errors can
happen. There are tools for doing this explicitly. They are called
pointers or references.


>
>Ok now how would you handle the case of multiple copies of that pointer variable?
>Make it "smart" so that you get copy-on-write of what it points to? That's the discussion
>we're having about the first level of Python references, ISTM.

Easy enough.

Reference counting for the object keeps track of how many variables
are currently using it as their value. Assign to as many variables as
you like - all you get is all those variables referencing one object
with a higher reference count.

Before modifying the object, you check the reference count. If greater
than one, you need to make a copy.

Pointer/reference objects have to point to the 'variable' rather than
the object. Access the object through that, and they are then
guarenteed to access the correct object that they were associated
with.

Pointers and references don't increment the reference count as they
are not supposed to get copies.

ASCII art warning...

  +---+    +-------+      +---------------+
  | x |--->| x var |----->| object : RC=2 |
  +---+    +-------+      +---------------+
                                ^
          +---+    +-------+    |
          | y |--->| y var |----+
          +---+    +-------+
                        ^
                        |
 +---+   +-------+   +-------------------+
 | z |-->| z var |-->| ptr object : RC=1 |
 +---+   +-------+   +-------------------+


Garbage collection continues to work as it already does, having
nothing to do with the new reference count in the object. The
intermediate 'variable' thing means that even if the original variable
goes out of scope, the pointer can still refer to it - and a new
variable created with the same name doesn't have to re-use the old
variable thingy.

This involves an extra layer of indirection compared with Python at
the moment. It would involve a (small) performance hit as a result.
But there is no copying of the object unless the copy is needed.


>>C++ uses exactly this kind of approach for the std::string class among
>>others. Copy-on-write is a pretty common transparent implementation
>>detail in 'heavy' classes, including those written by your everyday
>>programmers. Does that mean C++ is slower that Python? Of course not!
>>
>It could be, if the unwanted copying was big enough.

No, it can't. It *never* creates an unnecessary copy. That is the
whole point of lazy copying.

>I'm a bit disappointed in not getting a comment on class NSHorne ;-)

I *know* that you can use a class to get pointer behaviour. The issue
of pointers becomes important if you don't get that behaviour because
of copy-on-write.

>Does this give names in ns the "variable" semantics you wanted? Is there any difference
>other than "semantic sugar?" Explaining the difference, if any, will also clarify what
>you are after, to me, and maybe others ;-)

The issue is what happens by default.




From fredrik at pythonware.com  Fri Jul  4 05:03:37 2003
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 11:03:37 +0200
Subject: Tkinter Image Button Bug
References: <mailman.1057155723.30289.python-list@python.org> <bdv9ci$1pmi$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <be3fs9$a1o$1@main.gmane.org>

Russell E. Owen wrote:

> I think you are running into a common Tkinter pitfall (it is an
> intentional design decision, but I do not recall the argument for it):

quick version: the Tkinter interface layer doesn't know the Tk-level type
for all option, you can use images in lots of places, the layer cannot tell
the difference between an image and a string (image objects don't have
to inherit from Tkinter.Image), the semantics of the Tk image delete
operation is rather weird (Tk uses reference counting, so it knows that
the image is still in use, so if someone tries to delete an image that is
still being used, the image won't go away -- but the contents are cleared;
it's like "del mylist" would always do "mylist[:] = []" before decrementing
the reference count, just for fun), this whole mess was hidden by a bug
in an earlier version of Python, and changing this behaviour would break
too much stuff.

it's like mutable default arguments; you'll only make this mistake once.

> I am almost certain it suffices to assign b._iconref = icon (_iconref
> being an attribute that the Label b is not likely to already have).

absolutely.

</F>







From mcherm at mcherm.com  Thu Jul 17 14:14:05 2003
From: mcherm at mcherm.com (Michael Chermside)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 11:14:05 -0700
Subject: Co-routines
Message-ID: <1058465645.3f16e76dc10ae@mcherm.com>

Chris Wright wants a way to execute python code one-line-at-a-time so he
can run multiple functions "in lockstep".

I don't have an answer, but I have the START of an approach. Michael Sparks
is ahead of me here (see his excellent answer 
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2003-July/173694.html), but
for a different approach try this:

G:\>python
ActivePython 2.2.1 Build 222 (ActiveState Corp.) based on
Python 2.2.1 (#34, Apr 15 2002, 09:51:39) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> def f():
...     print '1-1'
...     print '1-2'
...     print '1-3'
...
>>> import dis
>>> dis.dis(f.func_code)
          0 SET_LINENO               1

          3 SET_LINENO               2
          6 LOAD_CONST               1 ('1-1')
          9 PRINT_ITEM
         10 PRINT_NEWLINE

         11 SET_LINENO               3
         14 LOAD_CONST               2 ('1-2')
         17 PRINT_ITEM
         18 PRINT_NEWLINE

         19 SET_LINENO               4
         22 LOAD_CONST               3 ('1-3')
         25 PRINT_ITEM
         26 PRINT_NEWLINE
         27 LOAD_CONST               0 (None)
         30 RETURN_VALUE

Here we can SEE the code, and it's nicely broken into lines by
the SET_LINENO bytecode. What I'd LIKE to do now is to somehow
go from f.func_code (a code object) to a Python list of bytecodes.
Then we could easily split the list on SET_LINENO codes, intersperse
with calls to other functions, and sew it all up into a larger
list. Then we would just need to exec those bytecodes, and BINGO...
problem solved.

But I don't know how to convert a code object into a list of
bytecodes, nor how to convert it back to a code object so I can
pass it to exec.

Any better gurus able to enlighten me?

-- Michael Chermside





From hokiegal99 at hotmail.com  Sat Jul  5 18:10:02 2003
From: hokiegal99 at hotmail.com (hokiegal99)
Date: Sat, 05 Jul 2003 18:10:02 -0400
Subject: Calculating Year, Month and Day of Life
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1057438150.16687.python-list@python.org>
References: <be72ph$k60$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <mailman.1057438150.16687.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3F074CBA.80505@hotmail.com>

Ian Bicking wrote:

> On Sat, 2003-07-05 at 12:48, hokiegal99 wrote:
> 
>>Hello,
>>
>>I am a funeral director trying to write a small program that calculates 
>>the number of years, months and days a person has lived by entering the 
>>year, month and day of their birth. This is what I have so far:
> 
> 
> You might want to look at mxDateTime, or Python 2.3's datetime module,
> which will probably provide functions to make this calculation
> significantly easier -- counting days in years, adjusting for leap
> years, etc.  Well, that's if you want to be exact, which may not really
> be important.
> 
>   Ian

This is a good point. I want to be within the correct year, month and 
day, but if I'm off by a few hours it won't matter. From my 
calculations, the average year is 365.25 days long (with a leap year 
every 4 years) so that makes the avergae month 30.4375 days long. Do you 
see any problem with doing it this way?




From delphiro at zonnet.nl  Fri Jul  4 04:51:43 2003
From: delphiro at zonnet.nl (delphiro)
Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 10:51:43 +0200
Subject: Python is a gem, you need to keep pushing it ....
In-Reply-To: <41A1CBC76FDECC42B67946519C6677A9A20BBA@pippin.int.etrials.com>
References: <41A1CBC76FDECC42B67946519C6677A9A20BBA@pippin.int.etrials.com>
Message-ID: <20030704105143.74e0a3d8.delphiro@zonnet.nl>

> On the other hand, I don't take Dave's comment that he would rather be using Python and Emacs to the (really excellent) Delphi IDE too seriously either. OTOH maybe Dave actually feels this way but there are good reasons not to :

I guess you mean my (delphiro) comment.

As a daily Delphi user I do like the Delphi IDE but the Emacs editor is way better than the editor that comes with the Delphi IDE.

> For Windows GUI apps Delphi has a great screen-builder and a collection of 3rd party component (many freeware) that puts Tk/Swing/wxWindows/QT/GTK/everything else available to Python to shame.

Well, part of that is true.. you can drag and drop almost any possible component on a form and start working. This takes more time in Pyhton (in my case with wxPython) but I don't think Python should be 'ashamed' for its 3rd party tools. As for my private project I use scipy for calculations and graphical output (and even the option to save the output as pdf!). I have not seen any freeware component for Delphi with the same possibilities. As for the GUI part I start the design using Boa Constructor which also has a nice way to implement events and use the boa output in Emacs to get things useful. Easy does it, though I must admit that the GUI part will develop faster with the Delphi IDE (rough guess, about 2-3 times in development speed).

Once the GUI development is done and the 'actual' work starts I find Python easier to use and faster in development time than Delphi. I mean.. try creating a dynamic list that contains a integer, function, another list, a string etc. just in one line.

> Outside of that space (Linux, Mac) and for non-gui apps the benefit of Delphi is less-clear especially since Python comes with "batteries included" but Delphi still has a superb debugger, model driven development and a collection of great tools built into the IDE.

I certainly agree about the debugger though I realy doubt if using Emacs with its build in debugger is so much slower once you get used to it.

> Python *is* great but lets not pretend that its a good fit for every problem.

I doubt that (unless you develop hardware drivers). 

Rob

-- 
[-------------delphiro-------------]
[-- http://pyciv.sourceforge.net --]
[----------------------------------]




From pyth at devel.trillke.net  Sat Jul 26 03:50:45 2003
From: pyth at devel.trillke.net (holger krekel)
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 09:50:45 +0200
Subject: path module
In-Reply-To: <1059185020.28092.11625.camel@lothlorien>; from ianb@colorstudy.com on Fri, Jul 25, 2003 at 09:03:40PM -0500
References: <mailman.1057686613.6463.python-list@python.org> <11234c14.0307211016.344d40bc@posting.google.com> <mailman.1059144006.6426.python-list@python.org> <just-8DDA38.17221725072003@news1.news.xs4all.nl> <20030725184158.O6906@prim.han.de> <1059155133.24478.10738.camel@lothlorien> <20030725203322.P6906@prim.han.de> <1059160667.28096.10876.camel@lothlorien> <20030725215602.Q6906@prim.han.de> <1059185020.28092.11625.camel@lothlorien>
Message-ID: <20030726095045.T6906@prim.han.de>

Ian Bicking wrote:
> On Fri, 2003-07-25 at 14:56, holger krekel wrote:
> > > The multiple walk methods would only be a shortcut anyway.  Again, they
> > > might be difficult in a situation like a URL where directory and file
> > > are intermingled (and maybe ReiserFS 4...?) -- which maybe is okay, a
> > > urlpath object simply wouldn't implement that walker.
> > 
> > Yep, URL pathes have no notion of directories and files.  Thus a general 
> > URL path can't have a 'listdir' method and thus we can't recurse.  
> > You can easily special case it for Apache's "Indexes" view, though :-)
> 
> WebDAV does, though, doesn't it?  But you can still edit the directory
> resource, so it gets overloaded.  WebDAV's use of GET is messed up.

I am not very familiar with the low-level details of WebDAV but i think
determining if something is a directory is done by a PROPGET command. 

cheers,

    holger




From abbeflabbe at InospamIhotmail.com  Fri Jul 18 01:19:35 2003
From: abbeflabbe at InospamIhotmail.com (Linkages)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 05:19:35 GMT
Subject: gui
Message-ID: <pan.2003.07.18.00.19.12.167699@InospamIhotmail.com>

a good GUI for linux ?

bye 
linkages




From sandskyfly at hotmail.com  Fri Jul  4 10:20:11 2003
From: sandskyfly at hotmail.com (Sandy Norton)
Date: 4 Jul 2003 07:20:11 -0700
Subject: Least used builtins?
Message-ID: <b03e80d.0307040620.2158fd41@posting.google.com>

Python 1.5.2 (#0, Apr 13 1999, 10:51:12) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
Copyright 1991-1995 Stichting Mathematisch Centrum, Amsterdam
>>> len(dir(__builtins__))
86
>>>

Python 2.3b2+ (#43, Jul  4 2003, 04:54:22) [MSC v.1200 32 bit (Intel)]
on win32
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> len(dir(__builtins__))
125
>>>

Apparently these were added between py152 and py23:

['help', 'UnicodeTranslateError', 'StopIteration', 'SyntaxWarning',
'unicode', 'enumerate', 'unichr', 'basestring', 'DeprecationWarning',
'UnicodeError', 'copyright', 'sum', 'ReferenceError',
'OverflowWarning',
'dict', 'bool', 'True', 'FutureWarning', 'NotImplemented', 'file',
'zip',
'object', 'TabError', 'credits', 'UnicodeEncodeError', 
'UnicodeDecodeError', 'super', 'IndentationError', 'False',
'RuntimeWarning', 'license', 'classmethod', 'UserWarning', 
'PendingDeprecationWarning', 'iter', 'UnboundLocalError', 
'Warning', 'staticmethod', 'property','WindowsError']


I know there some plans to reduce the number of builtins in some
future version of python (Python 3.0?): So which builtins do you least
use?

Pesonally, I don't think I've ever used the following: intern, buffer,
coerce

cheers,

Sandy



From skip at pobox.com  Wed Jul  9 14:02:53 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 13:02:53 -0500
Subject: LOADING DATA INTO ARRAYS
In-Reply-To: <200307100147.05841.skchim0@engr.uky.edu>
References: <200307100147.05841.skchim0@engr.uky.edu>
Message-ID: <16140.22733.468173.643296@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    satish>  I am trying to collect the following data in X,Y,Z arrays as
    satish>  following:
    
    satish>   1.00000000000000        0.00000000000000D+000   0.00000000000000D+000
    satish>   0.932113519778473       0.362166241174114        0.00000000000000D+000
    satish>   0.737671227507627       0.675160099611485        0.00000000000000D+000
    ...

    satish> The error I am getting after the compilation is as follows:

    satish>  xval,yval=string.split(line)
    satish> ValueError: unpack list of wrong size

That's because the string.split() operation yields a list containing three
values per line, not two, and you're trying to assign those three values to
only two variables.  If you don't want the third field you can discard it a
couple ways:

    # only assign the first two items
    xval,yval=string.split(line)[0:2]

or

    # assign the third item to a dummy variable
    xval,yval,dummy=string.split(line)

Skip




From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Tue Jul 29 09:53:27 2003
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 08:53:27 -0500
Subject: pretty printing graphs
In-Reply-To: <bg4ksi$spe$0@216.39.172.122> (bokr@oz.net's message of "29 Jul
 2003 02:07:14 GMT")
References: <mailman.1059412614.26573.python-list@python.org>
	<bg4ksi$spe$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <m2vftlh220.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

>>>>> "Bengt" == Bengt Richter <bokr at oz.net> writes:

    Bengt> How about (I added a name in the first node line for
    Bengt> debugging, and boxing): (code follows output). Not tested
    Bengt> much ;-)

Thanks Bengt - that looks great.  You really should be on the payroll.

I won't have time until tonight to wrap my head around your code, but
I think I'll add a to_dot method to the Node class which generates dot
output, so I can use your ascii output for day-to-day stuff, and then
go to dot for publication quality.

Thanks all for the suggestions,
JDH






From lol at lolmcNOSPAM.com  Fri Jul  4 16:58:48 2003
From: lol at lolmcNOSPAM.com (Rogue 9)
Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 21:58:48 +0100
Subject: Newbie problems with class imports
Message-ID: <3f05ea73@shknews01>

Hi All,
I have a small problem in a program I'm developing and could do with some
guidance as to how I resolve it.
The hierachy of my program is as follows:

1)The toplevel package is called oop_lb 2)Beneath oop_lb are 3 packages -
analysis,process and tests

I am using the very excellent unittest module to help me to create a
program that is as bug free as I can make it and the tests are as you cn
guess in the tests package mentioned above. I have developed several
modules which reside in the process package and succesfully created tests
in the tests package which ensure the code does what I intended.When I
moved on to the analysis package however,things went a bit wonky as the
modules in this package called classes which resided in the process
package and when using the import statements to make them available I
found that either I could get the oop_lb module to run with one set of
import statements but the tests I wrote would not recognise the modules
from process in the import statements and produced the following type of
error:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "CalculateMedianTest.py", line 14, in ?
    import oop_lb.analysis.CalculateMedian
  File "/home/lol/disk/python/lotto/oop_lb/analysis/CalculateMedian.py",
  line 14, in ?
    from process import GetDraw
ImportError: No module named process

This occurs with the following import statement in the CalculateMedian.py
module

from process import GetDraw

If I change this to
import oop_lb.process.GetDraw

then the test program will work but the oop_lb.py file fails with the
following error

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "oop_lb.py", line 21, in ?
    from analysis import CalculateMedian # import class definition from
    file
  File "/home/lol/disk/python/lotto/oop_lb/analysis/CalculateMedian.py",
  line 13, in ?
    import oop_lb.process.GetDraw
  File "/home/lol/disk/python/lotto/oop_lb/oop_lb.py", line 21, in ?
    from analysis import CalculateMedian # import class definition from
    file
ImportError: cannot import name CalculateMedian

So.....my problem is that I can't seem to find the proper way to import
the modules to satisfy both the testing modules in the oop_lb.tests
package and also allow oop_lb.py to run without import errors. I apologise
for the length of the post and any ambiguities I may not have managed to
clear up whilst proff reading this before posting.

Thanks,Lol

-- 
Remove NOSPAM from my email address to use it,please.




From eichin at metacarta.com  Tue Jul 22 15:59:52 2003
From: eichin at metacarta.com (eichin at metacarta.com)
Date: 22 Jul 2003 15:59:52 -0400
Subject: pythonic malloc
References: <OaOSa.6965$OM3.854@news-server.bigpond.net.au> <7g1xwjqujm.fsf@pikespeak.metacarta.com> <zZ9Ta.8537$OM3.7230@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
Message-ID: <7g7k6a5o3r.fsf@pikespeak.metacarta.com>

> Now I just have a question about portability. Will this break on a
> big-endian box? That is, does:

read struct.__doc__, it explains about endianness in detail (in
particular, that's what the "<" at the beginning is all about.)



From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Jul 10 14:21:04 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 14:21:04 -0400
Subject: replace value of a specific position
References: <bek8ce$ok2$1@news.uni-kl.de>
Message-ID: <3F0DAE90.6C656C7E@engcorp.com>

Tom wrote:
> 
> I want to replace a specific part of a string. I tried replace but this
> doesn't work the way I want it, because it checks and replaces all
> values and not the position (index).
> 
> t = '010010101001001110100101010111'
> t = t.replace(t[5], '2')
> 
> This is just a bad example of what I tried. It produces this output:
> 
> 212212121221221112122121212111
> 
> But I wanted:
> 
> 010012101001001110100101010111

Try this instead:

>>> t = '010010101001001110100101010111'
>>> import array
>>> x = array.array('c', t)
>>> x
array('c', '010010101001001110100101010111')
>>> x[5] = '2'
>>> x.tostring()
'010012101001001110100101010111'

-Peter



From exarkun at twistedmatrix.com  Tue Jul  8 00:18:58 2003
From: exarkun at twistedmatrix.com (Jp Calderone)
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 00:18:58 -0400
Subject: PyIrc module
In-Reply-To: <200307072005.17077.shalehperry@comcast.net>
References: <20030707225250.7171.qmail@cs06.tgv.net> <200307072005.17077.shalehperry@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <20030708041846.GA3315@intarweb.us>

On Mon, Jul 07, 2003 at 08:05:17PM -0700, Sean 'Shaleh' Perry wrote:
> On Monday 07 July 2003 15:52, sylvain HELLEGOUARCH wrote:
> > Hello everyone,
> >
> > This is my first message round here :)
> >
> > Well, my message is more or less an announcment of my pyirc module for
> > Python (uh uh surprise this is the right place :)).
> >
> > This module tries to implement both RFC 1459 and 2812 about IRC protocol.
> > I've decided to code my own module as Python has a lack of IRC ones.
> > Generally speaking, either they are not up-to-date anylonger or they are
> > written for a specific GUI.
> >
> 
> not to downplay your work, but have you looked at Twisted? 
> http://twistedmatrix.com/products/twisted
> 

  Forget Twisted:

    http://python-irclib.sourceforge.net/

    http://sourceforge.net/projects/pyirclib/

    http://sk.nvg.org/python/irc_uninett/

    http://tarken.lyrical.net/programming/python/irclib_py.php

    http://linux.duke.edu/projects/kibot/contents/doc/kibot/kibot.irclib.html

  But hey, I guess everyone's entitled to write at least one IRC library...

  Jp

PS - Not to downplay etc

-- 
It is practically impossible to teach good programming style to
students that have had prior exposure to BASIC: as potential
programmers they are mentally mutilated beyond hope of
regeneration.        -- Dijkstra




From blunck at gst.com  Tue Jul 29 11:09:34 2003
From: blunck at gst.com (Christopher Blunck)
Date: 29 Jul 2003 08:09:34 -0700
Subject: How to properly package/distribute a pure python module?
References: <5ab0af73.0307281045.6cb13cfe@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1147e466.0307290709.34b2461@posting.google.com>

MatthewS at HeyAnita.com (Matt Shomphe) wrote in message news:<5ab0af73.0307281045.6cb13cfe at posting.google.com>...
> Are there any guidelines for packaging a pure python module? 
> Specifically, say I have a set of 10 functions, all of varying
> behaviors (no unifying theme to bind them together into clear
> subsets), that I would like to make available to others.  What is the
> best structure for the distributed module?  A single file called
> "functions.py" that people can put in "site-packages"[1]?  A
> subdirectory called "MyFunctions" with an "__init__.py" and the
> "functions.py" files[2]?  Or should the functions be broken out into
> individual files[3]?
> 
> I'm sure it depends on some other factorsbut are there general rules
> for constructing a nice, logical package for others to use?
> 
> [1] site-packages/functions.py (from functions import f1)
> [2] site-packages/MyFunctions/functions.py, __init__.py (from
> MyFunctions.functions import f1)
> [3] site-packages/MyFunctions/__init__.py, f1.py, f2.py, f3.py (from
> MyFunctions.f1 import f1)


Do a google search for the distutils module.  For examples, look at
any python project (ZSI or SOAPpy for example), and take a look at the
setup.py.

The gist of it is that you define a setup.py module that defines which
modules are to be included in the distro.  A user, when they download
your tarball, goes into your directory and (as root): "python setup.py
install".

Once you have your app in distutils compatible format, you can use
distutils to generate .exe installs, rpm installs, tarball downloads,
etc etc etc.

So definitely take a look at distutils.  :)


-c



From mauro.baraldi at bol.com.br  Tue Jul 29 22:31:47 2003
From: mauro.baraldi at bol.com.br (Mauro Baraldi)
Date: 29 Jul 2003 19:31:47 -0700
Subject: Convert a number to it name...
Message-ID: <daf62359.0307291831.2fea6592@posting.google.com>

Hello World !

Someone can help how to convert a number to it name. Well I'll explain...

11 -> leven.
48 -> forty eight.

Something like it.

Thanks 

[]s
Mauro



From garberch at yandex.ru  Sun Jul 13 13:32:04 2003
From: garberch at yandex.ru (Garber)
Date: 13 Jul 2003 10:32:04 -0700
Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?B?8e/l+Ojg6yDk6/8g8O7x8ejp8ero9SDv6PLu7fno6u7iKSkp?=
Message-ID: <37d6f77c.0307130932.1e3adf0d@posting.google.com>

?????, ?????????? ??? ??? ??????? ????? ??????(????????, ?????? ???? ?
exe-???? ?????????).



From jepler at unpythonic.net  Sun Jul 20 08:48:23 2003
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 07:48:23 -0500
Subject: Tk mainloop()
In-Reply-To: <E19e5t9-0005rJ-00.tetra701-mail-ru@f11.mail.ru>
References: <E19e5t9-0005rJ-00.tetra701-mail-ru@f11.mail.ru>
Message-ID: <20030720124819.GA20780@unpythonic.net>

Use the 'after' method of widgets.  This program increments the counter
in the label about once a second.

from Tkinter import *

def update_and_requeue():
        v.set(v.get() + 1)
        t.after(1000, update_and_requeue)

t = Tk()
v = IntVar(t)
l = Label(t, textvariable=v); l.pack(side="top")
b = Button(t, command=t.destroy, text="Close"); b.pack(side="top")
t.after(1000, update_and_requeue)
t.mainloop()




From mcfletch at rogers.com  Tue Jul  1 22:42:24 2003
From: mcfletch at rogers.com (Mike C. Fletcher)
Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 22:42:24 -0400
Subject: whitespace and ?asc()?
In-Reply-To: <3F02086D.9010300@ihug.co.nz>
References: <3F02086D.9010300@ihug.co.nz>
Message-ID: <3F024690.70901@rogers.com>

Ray Tomes wrote:

> Hi all
>
> I am totally new to python. On the whole I really like the design of 
> the language and after just one day may be considered a convert. 

Yay!

> I was trying to find out the exact definition of whitespace so I went 
> to look at strings.whitespace to find out which chars were whitespace, 
> and found 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 32 which according to my ancient ascii 
> chart are TAB, LF, VT, NP, CR, SPACE. Anyone know what NP = 12 is? 

FormFeed (FF) if my memory serves.  Doing:
    print '\x0c' # hexidecimal 12
also prints an FF in PythonWin, so seems likely that's it.

> Also, in trying to find the ASCII (or is it ANSI) values for 
> characters I could not find the reverse function for chr() [in BASIC 
> it is asc()]- can someone please tell me what reverses chr()? 

ord(character) in Python.  Note that unichr() is also reversed by ord, 
very tricky function that ord :) .

> I had to do this yucky thing to decode whitespace ... 

Ick, off to the dungeons with you! ;)

HTH,
Mike

_______________________________________
  Mike C. Fletcher
  Designer, VR Plumber, Coder
  http://members.rogers.com/mcfletch/







From kevino at tulane.edu  Tue Jul 22 16:27:49 2003
From: kevino at tulane.edu (Kevin Ollivier)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 13:27:49 -0700
Subject: Zlib problem on Windows XP??
Message-ID: <F68BA8D3-BC82-11D7-8ACF-000393CB1C86@tulane.edu>

Hi all,

When using the latest Python 2.2.x releases as well as the Python 2.3 
betas and rc1 on Win XP, I cannot import zlib. When I try, I get an 
error about the dynamic module not having an 'initzlib' symbol. The 
strange thing is that this problem seems to be XP-specific - on Windows 
2K I do not get this error. I've installed Python 2.2.3 on two XP 
machines with the same results. I installed the latest beta on one of 
the machines, but the results were the same. (Haven't tried RC1 yet.)

Does anyone else see this problem? I thought it was something I had 
done at first, but I haven't built Python myself and the error occurs 
right after installation, so I'm stuck as to what could be happening.

Thanks!

Kevin





From tzot at sil-tec.gr  Sun Jul 27 17:41:39 2003
From: tzot at sil-tec.gr (Christos TZOTZIOY Georgiou)
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 00:41:39 +0300
Subject: Checking whether bool is a type
References: <3F2442B2.E660E97@jandecaluwe.com>
Message-ID: <5jh8iv893mvl1mvst0u2i4qb05sm8egovj@4ax.com>

On Sun, 27 Jul 2003 23:22:58 +0200, rumours say that Jan Decaluwe
<jan at jandecaluwe.com> might have written:

>In my application I need to know whether bool is 
>available as a type (in Python2.3) or not. I just
>realized I can use the following:

>>> type(bool) is type

You might like to do this as an alternative:

def bool_is_type():
    try:
        return isinstance(bool, type)
    except NameError:
        return 0

to catch older python versions as well.
-- 
TZOTZIOY, I speak England very best,
Microsoft Security Alert: the Matrix began as open source.



From skip at pobox.com  Mon Jul  7 15:45:42 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 14:45:42 -0500
Subject: single/double quote escape interpolation
In-Reply-To: <bech6q$h5i$1@news7.svr.pol.co.uk>
References: <bech6q$h5i$1@news7.svr.pol.co.uk>
Message-ID: <16137.52710.881156.657585@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    Simon> I was just wondering why python doesn't make a distinction
    Simon> between single and double quotes - a bit like Perl does.

In most instances it's helpful because you can avoid extra escapes, e.g.:

    "why don't we drop by the pub and quaff a few?"

instead of

    'why don\'t we drop by the pub and quaff a few?'

There are also triple-quoted strings using """ and ''' as the string
delimiters.  They mostly just make it easy to create multi-line string
literals, but they can also be used to avoid backslashes:

    '''Maury said, "Why don't we drop by the pub and quaff a few?"'''

    Simon> Obviously I realise there are no dollar signs so you can't
    Simon> intrpolate a varaible in a string.

You can interpret variables, the mechanism is just slightly different:

    "why don't we drop by the $where and $dowhat a few?"

for Perl, vs.

    "why don't we drop by the %(where)s and %(dowhat)s a few?" % somedict

for Python.  Somedict is a dictionary having keys "where" and "dowhat" (at
minimum).  The most common "somedict"s are probably "locals()" and
"globals()" though you can easily construct your own or take them from
different contexts, like SQL query results.

    Simon> This is fine, but having to remember to put an r in front of
    Simon> regex's is really annoying and it would be great if you could
    Simon> jsut use single quotes instead to interpolate slashes properly
    Simon> etc. (ie only escape them once).

I find having to run to the Camel book every other day more annoying. ;-) I
can never remember what all the qx, qw, etc stuff means.

Skip




From michael at foord.net  Sat Jul 12 11:25:50 2003
From: michael at foord.net (Fuzzyman)
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 16:25:50 +0100
Subject: The ASPN compiler
References: <u8gugvovob6k3jou2oi4olsr6mp1fbqlqn@4ax.com> <mailman.1057969337.5637.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <2k30hv4t88n5iu7nj5g3e55gd275rumf7i@4ax.com>

On Sat, 12 Jul 2003 02:21:33 +0200, Gerhard H?ring <gh at ghaering.de>
wrote:

>Fuzzyman wrote:
>> What's the score on this (the ASPN python compiler) 
>
>There was a proof-of-concept implementation of a Python compiler for the 
>.NET platform done by ActiveState and sponsored by Microsoft.
>
>> - is it a true
>> compiler for python ? 
>
>Read the whitepaper, available on the ActiveState site.
>
Done that - its not entirely clear - any chance you could answer the
question......

>> - what does it output - binary or C++ for .NET
>> framework............ 
>
>Read the whitepaper, available on the ActiveState site.
>

Done that - its not entirely clear - any chance you could answer the
question......

>> if the latter then it could be very cool as it
>> may work with the PocketPC 2003 SDK.... for producing binaries for
>> PDAs from python... cool...
>
>Forget it. Instead what you probably want is a Python implementation for 
>Windows CE 3.0. There is one.

Not for the SH3 processor... doesn't produce binaries.
>
>> (I'm sure my terminology is way out of line here... sorry)
>> 
>> Does it work yet ?
>
>Read the whitepaper, available on the ActiveState site.
>
>RTFM. STFW. etc. :-P
>
>-- Gerhard

ATFQ

:-)

Fuzzyman

---
Everyone has talent. What is rare is the courage to follow talent to the dark place where it leads. -Erica Jong
Ambition is a poor excuse for not having sense enough to be lazy. -Milan Kundera 

http://www.voidspace.org.uk 
Where Headspace Meets Cyberspace
Cyberpunk and Science Resource Site
Exploring the worlds of Psychology, Spirituality, Science and Computing
--
http://www.fuchsiashockz.co.uk
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/void-shockz
http://www.learnlandrover.com



From jjl at pobox.com  Tue Jul  8 10:47:49 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 08 Jul 2003 15:47:49 +0100
Subject: COM Programming
References: <6308fa3f.0307080220.5889317b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <87y8z9f52i.fsf@pobox.com>

tom.bradshaw at zytek.co.uk (TB) writes:
[...]
> Also has anybody got any references to more info about Python using
> COM?

The O'Reilly book by Hammond and Robinson (one of the COM chapters is
free to download).


John



From zephyr01 at alltel.net  Wed Jul  2 22:58:30 2003
From: zephyr01 at alltel.net (Hans Nowak)
Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 22:58:30 -0400
Subject: Question regarding naming convention
In-Reply-To: <1057062415.13616.0@doris.uk.clara.net>
References: <1056988215.49928.0@iris.uk.clara.net> <m1_La.1613$eF3.213194@news20.bellglobal.com> <1057062415.13616.0@doris.uk.clara.net>
Message-ID: <be05vf$jik$1@main.gmane.org>

michael wrote:

> Both of the above seem to overcomplicate the syntax. Of the two, I 
> prefer the second, but I'm sure I've read on c.l.py that the 
> from..import.. version is not a preferred way of doing things.
> 
> Is there no way to write a class, such that the statement:
> 
>     import MyClass
> 
> would dynamically import the MyClass class from MyClass.py ?
> 
> It just surprises me that there isn't a neater way around this, as 
> Python seems to encapsulate most everything else in a simple way.

Not sure if this is what you're after, but:

 >>> def importobj(name):
	mod = __import__(name)
	obj = getattr(mod, name)
	globals()[name] = obj
	
# import the StringIO object from the StringIO module
 >>> importobj('StringIO')

# is it in the global namespace? yes:
 >>> dir()
['StringIO', '__builtins__', '__doc__', '__name__', 'importobj']

Putting something into globals() is a bit of a kludge, though.  You're probably 
better off using from x import x.

Cheers,






From vze4rx4y at verizon.net  Wed Jul 16 15:44:29 2003
From: vze4rx4y at verizon.net (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 19:44:29 GMT
Subject: __eq__ and __ne__
References: <mailman.1058364997.25349.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <xWhRa.2645$634.983@nwrdny03.gnilink.net>

> [Tim]
> >>>> Since the richcmp operators aren't constrained to return scalars,
> >>>> an attempt to define one in terms of the others seemed futile.
> >>>> Instead they're 6 independent methods.
>
> [Shane Hathaway]
> >>> Ok.  Thanks for finding the docs.  I guess I'll stick to my
> >>> boilerplate code.  I think some guidance should be added to the
> >>> Python docs, though, explaining that whenever you define __eq__,
> >>> you very likely ought to define __ne__ also.

Okay, I added it to the docs.


Raymond Hettinger





From fredrik at pythonware.com  Wed Jul 16 10:53:00 2003
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 16:53:00 +0200
Subject: tkinter: Better Traceback
References: <bf3egf$agtqo$1@ID-63505.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <bf3orl$ktn$1@main.gmane.org>

Thomas G?ttler wrote:

> Is there a way to get a better traceback in tkinter?
> It would be nice to see the line number of the last line
> of "my" code.
>
> Exception in Tkinter callback
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "/var/tmp/python-2.2.2-build//usr/lib/python2.2/lib-tk/Tkinter.py",
> line 1299, in __call__
>     args = apply(self.subst, args)
>   File "/var/tmp/python-2.2.2-build//usr/lib/python2.2/lib-tk/Tkinter.py",
> line 1035, in _substitute
>     e.height = getint(h)
> ValueError: invalid literal for int(): ??

it's not a bug in your code, it's an incompatible change in Tk 8.4.2, which
uses "??" to represent an "undefined integer".

either upgrade your Tkinter (Python 2.3 contains a workaround), or down-
grade your Tk to 8.4.1 or earlier (or link Tkinter against Tk 8.3.x).

</F>







From http  Thu Jul 10 22:12:36 2003
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 10 Jul 2003 19:12:36 -0700
Subject: Securing 'pickle'
References: <pan.2003.07.11.01.20.47.998070@127.0.0.1> <slrnbgs4hc.hop.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local> <7x1xwxu98y.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <3F0E1875.574DC6D7@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <7xk7ap3j6z.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Erik Max Francis <max at alcyone.com> writes:
> > Because now you need a mechanism to store the session info on the
> > server, and you might want it to work across multiple load-balanced
> > servers that fail over to one another, etc.
> 
> That's far superior to presenting the opportunity to exploits in the
> first place, in my opinion.  Depending on the contents of the contents
> of that cookie, what you suggest may not be a problem at all (depending
> on how critical the data contained therein is).

I'm not sure what you're saying here.  My suggestion is to
authenticate the cookies with a cryptographic checksum and verify the
authentication before deserializing the cookies.  That's probably the
simplest approach.  Keeping session info on a multi-process server (or
worse, a multi-server network) needs some kind of concurrent storage
mechanism.  I don't see a robust, secure, low-overhead way to do that
with out-of-the-box Python.  Any suggestions?



From Stephen.C.Waterbury at nasa.gov  Wed Jul 23 16:16:38 2003
From: Stephen.C.Waterbury at nasa.gov (Stephen C. Waterbury)
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 16:16:38 -0400
Subject: Problem with pyOpenSSL and Python2.3c
Message-ID: <bfpf3g$8il$1@skates.gsfc.nasa.gov>

I'm trying to get pyOpenSSL to work with Python 2.3c on
Red Hat 9, but there seems to be a Python C API incompatibility.
I assume this just means that a new version of pyOpenSSL is
needed for Python 2.3 -- is that correct?

- Steve.




From gregbrunet at NOSPAMsempersoft.com  Mon Jul 21 15:06:42 2003
From: gregbrunet at NOSPAMsempersoft.com (Greg Brunet)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 14:06:42 -0500
Subject: Python scripting with Paint Shop Pro 8.0
References: <kl3lhvgh5iillo5g9jvff92qkc8i2022nm@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <vhoefdfn39v19f@corp.supernews.com>

Hi Marc:

"Marc Wilson" <marc at cleopatra.co.uk> wrote in message
news:kl3lhvgh5iillo5g9jvff92qkc8i2022nm at 4ax.com...
> I've just got Paint Shop Pro 8.0, and the functionality of the old
> ImageRobot add-on has been replaced with the new Python Scripting.

Thanks for mentioning PSP 8's support of Python.  I have an older copy
that I haven't updated for a while, and this scripting capability is an
update worthwhile making!

> What I'm trying to determine is: can I run these scripts from a
command-line
> invocation?  I want to use the scripts to automatically convert files
as
> they arrive, uploaded onto a website, not interactively.

I just DL'd an eval copy also, and a couple of thoughts.
1) Duncan's already pointed out the file association, so it looks like
that's an easy way to ensure that the Python script is handled properly
by PSP.

2) Python was installed there for me.  You should see "python22.dll" in
your [C:\Program Files\Jasc Software Inc\Paint Shop Pro 8] (or
appropriate) directory.  There shold also be a [\Python Libraries]
subdirectory with other required files.

3) Interestingly, I can't find any sign of a JascApp.* file anywhere.  I
would expect to see a PYC or PYD given the Import command, but being a
relative newbie myself, don't have a good understanding of how this
could be.  But, hey - it seems to work, so I won't complain.

4) I would expect that for btach processing you would also pass the file
to process at the command shell, but they do seem to offer some extra
help for batch processing (the "Processing all the files in a directory"
section on  page 26 of the script.pdf manual (available at their website
if you've only got all the HTML documentation from the CD)  I agree that
the Docs could be a bit more helpful!

5) Of course the messages showing off PIL have opened my eyes to how
easy it is to use that - and Python is LOTS easier than Perl IMHO.

-- 
Greg




From martin at v.loewis.de  Sun Jul 13 18:01:28 2003
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-15?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 14 Jul 2003 00:01:28 +0200
Subject: anything like C++ references?
References: <13t0hvsb7idh0g6ac3upe5k0qd6flc17ah@4ax.com> <pan.2003.07.13.10.58.11.376531@127.0.0.1> <lq-cnWRG9rRuMIyiXTWJjQ@comcast.com> <b8c3hvsesjoumiboobml3nsnajtha99mp1@4ax.com> <mailman.1058126720.6756.python-list@python.org> <dji3hv4uf7fi47l61hhurkf10ot9rjqgen@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <m3fzlaulvr.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Stephen Horne <intentionally at blank.co.uk> writes:

> >This just isn't true.  The C++ assignment operator is not at all like
> >the Python assignment statement.  Python variables are not like C++
> >variables, no surprise assignment is different too.  If you used
> >languages outside of C++ and its like (e.g., Pascal), you would find
> >Python's behavior common.
[...]
> The ability to change part or all
> of a value in-place has nothing to do with whether that value is
> referenced using a pointer or whatever in computer theory - any link
> between pointers/references and mutability should be related to the
> implementation of the language - not the semantics.

So you think "assignment" is about "changing values"? This is the case
in C and C++, but not the case in Java (atleast for objects), and Python.

In Python, assignment changes variables, not values. This is something
fundamentally different. In Python (and many other languages),
variables are independent of their value (and vice versa). Variables
are *associated* with a value, instead of *being* that value. Then,
assignment changes that association - not the value itself.

> So much for dropping out of the discussion, but I hate it when people
> make false claims about my beliefs, making me out to be ignorant, when
> it is *not* *me* who is missing the point.

I'm uncertain what your point is, however, I do observe that computer
theory has a different view of what assignments are than what I think
your view is.

Regards,
Martin



From mis6 at pitt.edu  Thu Jul 17 08:16:50 2003
From: mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato)
Date: 17 Jul 2003 05:16:50 -0700
Subject: [OT] sentances with two meanings
References: <mailman.1058278343.23104.python-list@python.org> <bf167a$pvt$1@panix2.panix.com> <ufzl7rdno.fsf@online.no> <3F142A58.80426AA4@hotmail.com> <2259b0e2.0307161620.4a9353f1@posting.google.com> <Xns93BB246FDDBCFJanC@213.118.75.80>
Message-ID: <2259b0e2.0307170416.e2bc998@posting.google.com>

JanC <usenet_spam at janc.invalid> wrote in message news:<Xns93BB246FDDBCFJanC at 213.118.75.80>...
> mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato) schreef:
> 
> > Now, Latin had to verbs for "to know": "scire" and "cognoscere". 
> 
> And "cognovisse".  (I still have a latin dictionary too... :)


Huh? "cognovisse" cannot be a verb, what would be the paradigma?


 Michele



From skip at pobox.com  Mon Jul 28 15:44:06 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 14:44:06 -0500
Subject: Fastest way to count your iterations?
In-Reply-To: <a9e86706.0307281041.395e3bc8@posting.google.com>
References: <a9e86706.0307281041.395e3bc8@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <16165.32006.801791.56445@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    Tracy> [ is the modulus operator the quickest way to find out if you're
    Tracy> really at the 1000th item? ]

I would certainly hope it's fast enough.  If it's not, you probably have
more serious performance issues to consider.  It's what I use in my progress
module.  Visit

    http://www.musi-cal.com/~skip/python/

and search for "progress".

Skip




From mcfletch at rogers.com  Fri Jul 18 08:48:44 2003
From: mcfletch at rogers.com (Mike C. Fletcher)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 08:48:44 -0400
Subject: properties + types, implementing meta-class desciptors elegantly?
Message-ID: <3F17ECAC.30104@rogers.com>

Hi all,

I'm working on a base meta-type for a plug-in system, and I'd really 
like to use the same rich-descriptor objects as I've used everywhere 
else in the system.  Basically these are descriptors that intercept 
x.name, do various transformations, and then store the values in the 
instance dictionary.

Unfortunately:

 >>> type(t).pluginRole
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
  File "p:\properties\basicproperty\basic.py", line 231, in __get__
    return self.getDefault( client )
  File "p:\properties\basicproperty\basic.py", line 256, in getDefault
    setattr( client, self.name, value )
  File "p:\properties\basicproperty\basic.py", line 283, in __set__
    self._setValue( client, value )
  File "p:\properties\basicproperty\basic.py", line 151, in _setValue
    client.__dict__[ self.name ] = value
TypeError: object does not support item assignment

which would seem to suggest that the only way to use the regular 
descriptors would be to do the (annoying) '_'+name thing so that there's 
a proliferation of names in the class (which I *really* don't want).  
So, does anyone have a pattern which allows setting an attribute on a 
class which doesn't go through the setattr machinery (i.e. can be used 
within a descriptor)? 

What I'm using right now (adding a "_PlugIn__properties" dictionary) 
feels a little hackish, (though it does work):

class PlugIn( type ):
    """Meta-class for plug-in classes"""
    def __new__( cls, name, bases, dictionary):
        dictionary['_PlugIn__properties'] = {}
        new = super( PlugIn, cls).__new__( cls, name, bases, dictionary)
        return new

especially as it requires that I sub-class each and every 
descriptor-type I want to use with plugins... not a huge deal, they're 
built to make that easy, but it seems inelegant to be creating an extra 
__dict__ just because the built-in one is marked as non-assignable save 
through the built-in setattr mechanism.

Basically, I'd love to find a method "simple_setattr" which allows the 
setting on the class w/out triggering the property I'm trying to implement.

Always-looking-for-elegance-even-when-it-already-works,
Mike

_______________________________________
  Mike C. Fletcher
  Designer, VR Plumber, Coder
  http://members.rogers.com/mcfletch/







From max at alcyone.com  Sun Jul  6 22:36:16 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Sun, 06 Jul 2003 19:36:16 -0700
Subject: anything new on the ternary operator?
References: <mailman.1057533670.9800.python-list@python.org> <%G4Oa.22187$Ey6.10119@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net>
Message-ID: <3F08DCA0.3EED47A4@alcyone.com>

Russell Reagan wrote:

> What is superior about using the proposed ternary operator instead of
> using
> the 'and' and 'or' operators to simulate inline logic?

Because the and/or technique doesn't quite work.  Instead of rehashing
this topic again, I'd recommend you check out the PEP 308 on the
conditional operator which goes through all the details:

	http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0308.html

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ She glanced at her watch ... It was 9:23.
\__/  James Clavell



From rmunn at pobox.com  Fri Jul 18 14:41:58 2003
From: rmunn at pobox.com (Robin Munn)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 18:41:58 GMT
Subject: String Manipulation
References: <mailman.1058304503.30716.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrnbhgft6.3e2.rmunn@localhost.localdomain>

Batista, Facundo <FBatista at uniFON.com.ar> wrote:
[snip 243 lines]

Ew. Your followup was nicely informative, but your newsreader turned a
nice, short six-line post into a 243-line monstrosity. Could you please
turn off HTML posting and go easy on everyone else's bandwidth? Thanks!

-- 
Robin Munn <rmunn at pobox.com> | http://www.rmunn.com/ | PGP key 0x6AFB6838
-----------------------------+-----------------------+----------------------
"Remember, when it comes to commercial TV, the program is not the product.
YOU are the product, and the advertiser is the customer." - Mark W. Schumann



From jan.reinmueller at regwest.sbs.de  Tue Jul  8 10:09:44 2003
From: jan.reinmueller at regwest.sbs.de (Jan Reinmüller)
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 16:09:44 +0200
Subject: Pyton Modul
Message-ID: <beejap$3i8$1@news.mch.sbs.de>

Hi, I am working at the moment with the semnet.py modul. Did anybody know
what exactley the modul is doing? Maybe someone has a good practical example
for me.

Thanks in advance.

Marcel





From gsmatthew at ozemail.com.au  Fri Jul 18 23:55:44 2003
From: gsmatthew at ozemail.com.au (Graeme Matthew)
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 13:55:44 +1000
Subject: Threading Pool Event()
References: <0tRRa.212$vD1.8077@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au> <bf8ri5$cs7$1@panix1.panix.com> <NDZRa.273$vD1.11889@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au> <ia1Sa.304$vD1.13822@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au> <mailman.1058582130.2101.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9j3Sa.319$vD1.15038@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au>

ok so code like this is perfectly safe

def run(self):

    while 1:

        job = queue.get()

        __processjob()

thanks




"Cliff Wells" <clifford.wells at comcast.net> wrote in message
news:mailman.1058582130.2101.python-list at python.org...
> On Fri, 2003-07-18 at 18:29, Graeme Matthew wrote:
> > ok still a bit confused sorry .... first attempt at a thread pool
> >
> > Am I correct in saying that each thread runs in a continious loop
>
> Yes.
>
> > each thread calls queue.get. The get method will block and not return
> > anything until an item is placed into it. When an item is placed into
> > it, one of the threads will get assinged a job i.e the first one that
> > happens to be in use during the cycle ?
>
> I think you have the idea, but I'm not sure (your terminology escapes me
> a bit toward the end).  What happens is each thread blocks waiting for
> something to be placed on the queue.  When something is put on the
> queue, one of the available threads (i.e. one that is blocking on
> queue.get() rather than processing a job).  Only a single thread will be
> woken for each item that is put on the queue.  It isn't knowable which
> thread that will be.
>
> > The job is returned to the thread, it runs with the job and does all
> > the processing then returns and calls queue.get again and waits for a
> > job to become available ?
>
> Yes.
>
> > When placing a job via Queue.put() one must acquire a lock place it
> > and then release it
>
> No.  The locking semantics are internal to the Queue object.  Do not
> concern yourself with it.  It simply works.  Do not attempt to put locks
> around it.
>
> > Am i aslo correct in saying that queue is actually doing the blocking
> > and controls which thread gets the job ?
>
> In a sense (that is, for practical purposes).  How it is done internally
> by the interpreter isn't important.
>
> > Lastly, sorry for all the questions, surely the CPU usage is the same
> > when the queue is waiting for jobs and when the threads are polling as
> > theyre all in one process anyway
>
> The threads are asleep while waiting.  They don't consume any CPU.  The
> queue doesn't "wait" for jobs (that is, it doesn't loop, poll or
> otherwise consume any CPU time), when you call queue.put() it is a
> method call on an object, not a thread.
>
> > Am i getting this or am i way off :-)
>
> Just a little way off ;)
>
> Regards,
>
> Cliff
>
> --
> My only regret is that I ever was born
>                                -Swans
>
>





From egbert.list at hccnet.nl  Sun Jul 27 04:55:28 2003
From: egbert.list at hccnet.nl (Egbert Bouwman)
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 10:55:28 +0200
Subject: Tools for reading Dr Dobb's Python-URL
Message-ID: <20030727085528.GA1056@mirk.lan>

What is _the_ tool for reading Dr. Dobb's Python-URL,
I mean not only seeing the url's, but opening them as well ?

I have made a python-script which handles it reasonably well,
but someone must have invented a better wheel before me.

egbert
-- 
Egbert Bouwman - Keizersgracht 197 II - 1016 DS  Amsterdam - 020 6257991
========================================================================




From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Jul 21 14:27:10 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 14:27:10 -0400
Subject: Python scripting with Paint Shop Pro 8.0
References: <kl3lhvgh5iillo5g9jvff92qkc8i2022nm@4ax.com> <mailman.1058775152.5377.python-list@python.org> <rajnhv0g0d21okj8uhebsakehgm9i6slvh@4ax.com> <mailman.1058790515.18332.python-list@python.org> <h65ohvs749mp0gctgve7t0qmojhrn642br@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3F1C307E.1A00BBD0@engcorp.com>

Marc Wilson wrote:
> 
> Groovy.  I may become a Python convert.  *sigh*  I've not finished learning
> perl yet, and now I've got a new shiny toy. :)

Excellent!  You have much less to _un_learn then. :-)



From andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au  Wed Jul 30 06:41:57 2003
From: andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au (Andrew MacIntyre)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 20:41:57 +1000 (EST)
Subject: -shared option in distutils
In-Reply-To: <20030730051157.GA28595@dave@alana.ucc.usyd.edu.au>
References: <20030730051157.GA28595@dave@alana.ucc.usyd.edu.au>
Message-ID: <20030730204011.U70595@bullseye.apana.org.au>

On Wed, 30 Jul 2003, Dave Harrison wrote:

> Im compiling on solaris 9 and am having problems with the linking (I
> loathe solaris these days ;-), and if I call gcc by hand and remove the
> -shared flag and replace it with -G it works.
>
> But I just cant find where I need to change this in the distutils
> package for my install of python2.1.1.
>
> Where can I find it ?

Grepping the source suggests unixccompiler.py contains the magic you seek.

--
Andrew I MacIntyre                     "These thoughts are mine alone..."
E-mail: andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au  (pref) | Snail: PO Box 370
        andymac at pcug.org.au             (alt) |        Belconnen  ACT  2616
Web:    http://www.andymac.org/               |        Australia




From grante at visi.com  Thu Jul 24 10:34:21 2003
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 24 Jul 2003 14:34:21 GMT
Subject: How to do raw Ethernet under Win32?
References: <3f1ed31a$0$181$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <GHOTa.3$dA6.755814@news.salzburg-online.at>
Message-ID: <3f1fee6d$0$169$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>

In article <GHOTa.3$dA6.755814 at news.salzburg-online.at>, Leopold Faschalek wrote:

>> How does one do raw Ethernet under Win32?  Ultimately, I want
>> to do it in a Python program, but if somebody can point me to a
>> clue on how to do it from C, I could probably figure out the
>> rest.

> the new winsock2.h supports more socket types:
> /*
>  * Types
>  */
> #define SOCK_STREAM     1               /* stream socket */
> #define SOCK_DGRAM      2               /* datagram socket */
> #define SOCK_RAW        3               /* raw-protocol interface */
> #define SOCK_RDM        4               /* reliably-delivered message */
> #define SOCK_SEQPACKET  5               /* sequenced packet stream */
> 
> so you have only to define 3 as type in the socket() call

I've seen vague references to this in some FAQs but could never
find out if it actually worked or how to specified what
Ethernet protocol you wanted to receive on the socket.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  The PINK SOCKS were
                                  at               ORIGINALLY from 1952!! But
                               visi.com            they went to MARS around
                                                   1953!!



From spam at magnetic-ink.dk  Mon Jul 28 02:16:02 2003
From: spam at magnetic-ink.dk (Klaus Alexander Seistrup)
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 06:16:02 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: How to reverse lookup characters in list?
References: <mailman.1059365860.23474.python-list@python.org> <pan.2003.07.28.06.15.30.615723@cs.rit.edu>
Message-ID: <3f24bfa2-27e5c5a1-a047-466d-99ab-bc4d01f01b42@news.szn.dk>

Keith Jones wrote:

> If you must ahve a list, you can do
> 
> [a for a in string.lowercase]
> 
> to get a list of characters from a to z.

Or simply "list(string.lowercase)".


  // Klaus

-- 
 ><> 	unselfish actions pay back better



From lists at gregfortune.com  Sun Jul 27 11:26:17 2003
From: lists at gregfortune.com (Greg Fortune)
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 08:26:17 -0700
Subject: eric3, pyqt, qscintilla - guru needed. 
References: <tKPUa.121681$Io.10389062@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <31SUa.3521$Jk5.2639815@feed2.centurytel.net>

It sounds like qscintilla was either not detected during the compile process
of PyQt or the library is not available.  My guess would be that the .so
files did not get copied into the correct place.  Check $QTDIR/lib for
libqscintilla.so.2.  If it's not there, go back into the directory in which
you unpacked qscintilla and copy all the .so files into $QTDIR/lib.

If $QTDIR isn't set, look for the lib directory in the folllowing places:
/usr/lib/qt/lib
/usr/local/lib/qt/lib
/usr/qt/lib

Also, make sure that the qt versions match up when you are looking.  If in
doubt, check all qt/lib directories you find.


Finally, if all that looks good, start the PyQt compile process again and
make sure it detects and enables qscintilla support.

Greg Fortune
Fortune Solutions

reh wrote:

> Have installed on Redhat 9.0 in the following order;
> 
> Qscintilla
> sip
> PyQt
> 
> When I install eric3 (python install.py), I get this error;
>   Sorry, please install QScintilla and/or reinstall
>   PyQt with QScintilla support.
> 
> It seems the errors occurs in the install.py file at:
>   from qtext import QextScintilla
> 
> From qtext.py, I have typed in at the python prompt;
>   >>> import libsip               # ok here
>   >>> from qt import QWidet       # ok here
>   >>> from qt import QObject      # ok here
>   >>> from qt import QPrinter     # ok here
>   >>> import libqtextc            # error here
>   Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
>   ImportError: libqscintilla.so.2: cannot open shared object file: No such
> file or directory
>   >>>
> 
> Been through all readme files, tried just about everything.
> Anyone have an idea what's wrong.
> 




From skip at pobox.com  Tue Jul  8 09:33:58 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 08:33:58 -0500
Subject: path module
In-Reply-To: <r01050400-1026-0CFC2A59B12C11D7A953003065D5E7E4@[10.0.0.23]>
References: <1057655734.3738.7.camel@lothlorien>
        <r01050400-1026-0CFC2A59B12C11D7A953003065D5E7E4@[10.0.0.23]>
Message-ID: <16138.51270.256713.554899@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    Just> I find overloading / unneccesary, since it's not like you'll have
    Just> to write

    Just>   a.join(b).join(c).join(d)

    Just> but rather

    Just>   a.join(b, c, d)

    Just> which I don't think is all that bad.

Yes, but 

    a/b/c/d

is nicely analogous to Unix pathname syntax.

Skip




From martin at v.loewis.de  Sun Jul  6 03:17:11 2003
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Sun, 06 Jul 2003 09:17:11 +0200
Subject: tp_base, tp_basesize, and __slots__ instance __class__ reassignment
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1057425728.32121.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1057425728.32121.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <be8idm$opr$03$1@news.t-online.com>

Jp Calderone wrote:

>   Can anyone enlighten me?

The test doesn't recognize the addition of arbitrary same slots.
Instead, it only looks for the __dict__ slot and the weakrefs slot.
If any additional slots have been added to either subclass, the
classes are considered different.

To test whether just these two slots have been added in lock-step,
you check
1. the dictoffset is the same for both classes, and it follows
    immediately the base slots, or neither class has a dictoffset.
2. the weakrefs offset is the same for both classes, and it follows
    immediately the dictoffset (or the base slots if there was no
    dictoffset).
3. there are no additional slots

Now, this *could* be generalized to treating to classes the same if
they have the same user-defined slots. If you want to do that, looking
at the size is not sufficient - you also have to verify that the slot
names and offsets are the same, lock-step-wise.

HTH,
Martin




From jjl at pobox.com  Tue Jul 15 17:15:54 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 15 Jul 2003 22:15:54 +0100
Subject: [OT] sentances with two meanings
References: <37d6f77c.0307130932.1e3adf0d@posting.google.com> <3f11ac74$0$49101$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl> <ad052e5c.0307131718.4903430d@posting.google.com> <3F12808B.E53193B8@hotmail.com> <87brvw3ula.fsf@pobox.com> <4701fb.8co.ln@195.171.216.1> <Xns93B99C8B951A6duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1> <bhahn-ya02408000R1507031248170001@news.corp.hp.com>
Message-ID: <87smp7biet.fsf@pobox.com>

bhahn at spam-spam.g0-away.com (Brendan Hahn) writes:

> duncan at rcp.co.uk wrote:
> >"Colin S. Miller" <colinsm.spam-me-not at picsel.com> wrote:
> >To "take someone in" means to trick or deceive them.
> 
> "take in" can also mean to observe.

But "take someone in" never means that.  It really is a wonder that we
manage to communicate this way...


John



From FBatista at uniFON.com.ar  Tue Jul 15 17:18:02 2003
From: FBatista at uniFON.com.ar (Batista, Facundo)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 18:18:02 -0300
Subject: String Manipulation
Message-ID: <A128D751272CD411BC9200508BC2194D03382BB8@escpl.tcp.com.ar>

Better:

>>> orig = "aaa/bbb/ccc/dd"
>>> orig.split('/')[-1]
'dd'

.	Facundo


#- -----Mensaje original-----
#- De: Batista, Facundo [mailto:FBatista at uniFON.com.ar]
#- Enviado el: Martes 15 de Julio de 2003 6:03 PM
#- Para: Python-List (E-mail)
#- Asunto: RE: String Manipulation
#- 
#- 
#- 
#- >>> orig = "aaa/bbb/ccc/dd"
#- >>> orig.split('/')[orig.count('/')]
#- 'dd'
#- >>>
#- 
#- 
#- .	Facundo
#- 
#- 
#- 
#- 
#- #- -----Mensaje original-----
#- #- De: lamar_air at hotmail.com [mailto:lamar_air at hotmail.com]
#- #- Enviado el: Martes 15 de Julio de 2003 5:23 PM
#- #- Para: python-list at python.org
#- #- Asunto: String Manipulation
#- #- 
#- #- 
#- #- I need a piece of code that takes a string like this string1 =
#- #- "aaa/bbb/ccc/dd" and extracts a string containting the 
#- #- character after
#- #- the last "/"
#- #- 
#- #- So for this example the result would be "dd"
#- #- 
#- #- like this:
#- #- for i=0; string1.right(i) != '/'; i++
#- #- 
#- #- result = string1.mid(i, string1.length())
#- #- 
#- #- but in python.
#- #- -- 
#- #- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
#- #- 
#- 
#- -- 
#- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
#- 





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Muchas Gracias.
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From p-abel at t-online.de  Wed Jul  2 01:35:08 2003
From: p-abel at t-online.de (Peter Abel)
Date: 1 Jul 2003 22:35:08 -0700
Subject: __del__ not working with cyclic reference?
References: <ba1e306f.0307011837.269e3d2a@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <13a533e8.0307012135.3554e42c@posting.google.com>

janeaustine50 at hotmail.com (Jane Austine) wrote in message news:<ba1e306f.0307011837.269e3d2a at posting.google.com>...
> I have some code using singleton pattern. The singleton instance
> is shared as a class variable. The problem is that the singleton
> instance is not cleared automatically.
> 
> Following is a simplified version that shows the problem:
> 
> --------
> #foobar.py
> class FooBar:
>     def __del__(self):
>         print "FooBar removed"
> 
> FooBar.foobar=FooBar()
Doen't understand what you're doing here.
For me you define a classvariable named **foobar**
which is bound to an instance of class **FooBar**.
> --------
> 
> c:\python23>python foobar.py
> 
> c:\python23>
> 
> It doesn't print anything.
> 
> Why is this so? Due to the cyclic reference? Isn't python's gc
> supposed to treat it? What singleton idiom is recommended 
> otherwise?
> 
For me the following works:
>>> class FooBar:
... 	def __del__(self):
... 		print "FooBar removed"
... 		
>>> foo=FooBar()
>>> del foo
FooBar removed
>>> 
> Thanks
> 
> Jane

Regards
Peter



From gregbrunet at NOSPAMsempersoft.com  Tue Jul  1 23:20:06 2003
From: gregbrunet at NOSPAMsempersoft.com (Greg Brunet)
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 22:20:06 -0500
Subject: Howto: extract a 'column' from a list of lists into a new list?
References: <vg1mbarhe86d2d@corp.supernews.com> <3f013fb1$0$97259$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk> <bdspmf$leq$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <vg4jresr2sng97@corp.supernews.com>

"Bengt Richter" <bokr at oz.net> wrote in message
news:bdspmf$leq$0 at 216.39.172.122...
> Or you can take advantage of zip:
>
>  >>> fields = [
>  ...      ('STOCKNO', 'C', 8, 0),
>  ...      ('DACC', 'C', 5, 0),
>  ...      ('DEALERACCE', 'C', 30, 0),
>  ...      ('D-ACCRTL', 'C', 9, 0),
>  ...      ('D-ACCCST', 'C', 9, 0)
>  ... ]
>  >>> zip(*fields)[0]
>  ('STOCKNO', 'DACC', 'DEALERACCE', 'D-ACCRTL', 'D-ACCCST')
>
> Or a list of all the columns of which only the first was selected
above:
>  >>> zip(*fields)
>  [('STOCKNO', 'DACC', 'DEALERACCE', 'D-ACCRTL', 'D-ACCCST'), ('C',
'C', 'C', 'C', 'C'), (8, 5, 30
>  , 9, 9), (0, 0, 0, 0, 0)]
>
> Since zip gives you a list of tuples, you'll have to convert if you
really need a list version
> of one of them:
>
>  >>> list(zip(*fields)[0])
>  ['STOCKNO', 'DACC', 'DEALERACCE', 'D-ACCRTL', 'D-ACCCST']

Bengt:

This looks great - but something isn't quite working for me.  If I type
in the stuff as you show, the zip function works, but if I use the
values that I get from my code, it doesn't.  Here's what I get in a
sample session:

#------------------------------------
>>> ff=dbf('nd.dbf')
>>> ff.Fields()
[('STOCKNO', 'C', 8, 0), ('DACC', 'C', 5, 0), ('DEALERACCE', 'C', 30,
0), ('D_ACCRTL', 'C', 9, 0), ('D_ACCCST', 'C', 9, 0), ('DEC', 'N', 10,
2)]
>>> zip(*ff.Fields())
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<interactive input>", line 1, in ?
TypeError: zip argument #1 must support iteration
#------------------------------------

Where the "dbf" invoices the _init_ for the dbf class which opens the
file & reads the header.  As part of that, the fields are placed in a
class variable, and accessed using the Fields() method.  At first I
wasn't sure of what the '*' did, but finally figured that out (section
5.3.4-Calls of the Language Reference for anyone else who's confused).

After puzzling it through a bit, I believe that Fields() is causing the
problem because it's not really a list of tuples as it appears.  Rather
it's a list of dbfField objects which have (among others) the following
2 methods:

class dbfField:
#----------------------------------------
    def __init__(self):
        pass

#----------------------------------------
    def create (self, fldName, fldType='C', fldLength=10, fldDec=0):
        # (lot's of error-checking omitted)
        self._fld = (fldName, fldType, fldLength, fldDec)
#----------------------------------------
    def __repr__(self):
        return repr(self._fld)
#----------------------------------------
    def __getitem__(self,key):
        """ Return by position or item name """
        if type(key) is IntType:
            return self._fld[key]
        elif type(key) is StringType:
            ukey = key.upper()
            if ukey=="NAME": return self._fld[0]
            elif ukey=="TYPE": return self._fld[1]
            elif ukey=="LENGTH": return self._fld[2]
            elif ukey=="DEC": return self._fld[3]


What I was trying to do, was to use the _fld tuple as the main object,
but wrap it with various methods & properties to 'safeguard' it.  Given
that can I still use zip to do what I want?  (Egor & Max's list
comprehension solution works fine for me, but the zip function seems
especially elegant)  I read in the library reference about iterator
types (sec 2.2.5 from release 2.2.2), and it looks like I could get it
to work by implementing the iterator protocol, but I couldn't find any
sample code to help in this.  Any idea if there's some available, or if
this is even worth it.

Better yet, is there a way for me to accomplish the same thing in a
simpler way?  It's likely that I'm 'brute-forcing' a solution that has
gotten to be a lot more complex than it needs to be.  Certainly if the
field definitions were in a simple tuple (which it is internally), zip
would work, but then it seems that I would lose the encapsulation
benefits.  Is there a way to achieve both?

Thanks again,

-- 
Greg




From bokr at oz.net  Tue Jul 29 19:05:42 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 29 Jul 2003 23:05:42 GMT
Subject: Bottleneck: easy obscurity "encryption" via xor
References: <p6rdivscomvoraihqmac4piut7uqcpdvj1@4ax.com> <3f26f477$0$49098$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <bg6uk6$gho$0@216.39.172.122>

On Wed, 30 Jul 2003 00:25:59 +0200, Irmen de Jong <irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl> wrote:

>Tino Lange wrote:
>
>> It turns out not to be quick at all. I really didn't expect this to be
>> a bottleneck, but it takes quite some time.
>
>>>   return reduce(lambda x,y: operator.add(x, chr(y)), map(lambda char, _salt = salt: operator.xor(ord(char), _salt), str), "")
>
>Running this on a large string builds up a huge list of ints,
>that you are converting to chars and then concatenating them
>together using +... this creates a HUGE number of temporary
>string objects.
>The usual pattern of fast string joining is:
>
>''.join(list-of-fragments)
>
>So first try:
>
>    return ''.join(map(lambda char, _salt = salt: chr(operator.xor(ord(char), _salt)), string))
>
>This runs MUCH faster already.
>
>But the version I'd recommend is:
>
>def xorcrypt(string, salt = 255):
 def xorcrypt(s, salt = 255):       # better name choice, even though string module may not be used
>     if salt <0 or salt> 255:
>         raise "Invalid salt! Must be 0<=salt<=255!"
>     return ''.join( [ chr(ord(c) ^ salt) for c in string ] )
      return s.translate(''.join([chr(ic^salt) for ic in xrange(256)]))
>
>because
>1) salt must be 0..255 not only <=255
>2) forget about map & lambda, use a list comprehension.
forget about list comprehension, use str.translate ;-)
>
>That implementation runs about 20 times faster than your original one;
>0.11 seconds for 100 Kb source data. (python 2.3)
>
s.translate ought to a good deal faster yet ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From bokr at oz.net  Tue Jul 15 03:17:52 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 15 Jul 2003 07:17:52 GMT
Subject: anything like C++ references?
References: <000301c348c7$3c501980$21795418@dell1700> <jf22hvotj4n0q5tpkg627e3jv61norf93n@4ax.com> <3F11106A.65FDA8F2@alcyone.com> <iqm2hvs77lhe1m71v9b579070khbf0uv0a@4ax.com> <berqqd$ad5$1@panix3.panix.com> <brs2hv8edfv0d1fch9mha8otuulajnkh0g@4ax.com> <8vd6hv0sdvoitccmnj4pdj66ss2vg4ii3n@4ax.com> <5ir6hvof9m5rjh6i3u992l91un21qtmsh4@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <bf09r0$fn9$0@216.39.172.122>

On Tue, 15 Jul 2003 04:28:21 +0100, Stephen Horne <intentionally at blank.co.uk> wrote:
>On Mon, 14 Jul 2003 16:15:08 -0700, Tom Plunket <tomas at fancy.org>
>wrote:
[...]
>>
>>Are they really technicalities, though?  I mean, a mutable object
>>can be changed.  It's the same object, just changed.  Immutable
>>objects, however, can't be changed.  You can get something that
>>appears like changing it, but it's actually building a new thing
>>and binding the label to that new thing.
>
>Yes. But the thing being changed *is* an object, *not* a value. Values
>are always immutable - basic fact of mathematics.
Too many words that I don't understand ;-/

Ok. There seem to be some entities you call "values" and some you call "variables."
>
>Variables in mathematics are bound to values. I think Python should be
>implemented in a way that respects that.
Now you are apparently saying that there is at least one relationship possible between
"variables" and "values" -- namely being "bound."

How do we know that a given "variable" is "bound" to a given "value?"
I guess one way would be to introduce the idea of an ordered pair, produced say by a
constructor "Pair", and also a set of ordered pairs defined as the binding set. Then if
Pair(variable,value) is in the binding set, we can say variable and value are bound.

Note that this is entirely abstract; representation is a separate matter. "variable"
is a single entity, presumably belonging to the set of possible variables.

>
>Whether you use objects to represent values, or whether you use some
>kind of symbolic representation is an implementation detail which
>should be transparent to the user unless the user specifically
>requests to deal with the object or whatever.
>
Now we apparently have a recognizably different entity "object" which I'd like to know
the meaning of, not to mention some kind of relations "object"<->"represent"<->"value"
and "symbol"<->"represent"<->"value."

To start, I would propose that all the words should refer to some abstract entities or
relationships, and then that we carefully consider various concrete representations
that may be put in correspondence, perhaps also in terms of a set of ordered pairs.

I'm too tired right now though ;-/

>If I type...
>
>>>> a = [1, 2, 3]
>>>> b = a
>
>Then in my mind, the point is that both variables get bound to the
>value '[1, 2, 3]'.
Ok, I infer that your take "a" and "b" to represent "variables." And
you are proposing that "'[1, 2, 3]'" represents a "value", and
that the first statement creates a binding. say (a, '[1 2, 3]') in the binding set.

The second statement will presumably produce another binding (b, <??>) in the binding set.
Now that means we have to decide what "a" evaluates to in "b = a." If it's just a,
we get the binding (b, a) but that would say that variables can be part of the set of possible values
(i.e., variables per se, not e.g. string representations). That's not how it works, though.
Evaluating a implies finding its associated value in a (variable,value) pair in the binding set.
So the new binding should be (b, '[1, 2, 3]') -- i.e., the same identical value as bound to a.
So far this is just how python works.
>
>The fact that the binding to values might be implemented using binding
>to the same object at this point should be, to me, a low level detail.
>
>If I now type...
>
>>>> b[2] = 4
>
>Then the variable b should now be bound to the value '[1, 2, 4]'. That
>is the whole point of what I've done. However, the fact that it was
>achieved by modifying a part of an object is an implementation detail.
>It should not affect the *value* bound to the variable a. In other
Aha. Maybe "variable" is a misnomer that you should not use when reading
python assignment statements. E.g., say "alias" instead, and read "b=a"
as "b is now an alias for the same entity as a is an alias for."

The syntax is like an optical illusion that can be seen more than one way,
and you are projecting a non-python view onto the syntax, which is interfering
with seeing the other view ;-)

>words, a new object should be created at that point - a copy of the
That's a "should" for another language, it's not what Python is designed to do.
>original - which would then be modified. That way, the mathematical
>concept of variables being bound to values would be respected.
>
Why don't you respect the possibility of a language that is *designed* to deal
with entities and relationships in ways you are not used to? ;-)

>This is not difficult to achieve. The implementations of the C++
The difficulty is not really relevant. It's not a goal for this language ;-)

>standard library that I've seen use exactly the same copy-on-write
>mechanism for strings. This method implements a lazy copying
>optimisation without violating the concept of variables being bound to
>values. That is, the hidden use of pointers or references in the
>std::string class is an implementation detail that you don't have to
>worry about as a programmer. The programmer worries about the
>application - not the low level details of the implementation of the
>language or library.
>
>But, like I said before, this isn't about imitating C++. It's about
>respecting the common definitions of 'variable', 'value' etc from
There you go again ;-) I could as well say that it's about "respecting"
that Python is not designed to do what you are used to and thus does not use
"assignment" the way you are used to, most likely because it doesn't really have
"variables" in the sense that you are used to.

Why assume because some notion isn't used that it means disrespect? If you
read "variable" where you should be reading "alias" perhaps you are misconstruing
what you are reading, and are merely uncomfortable because the mental model you
are using to organize your perceptions doesn't fit. It's like saying a python should
respect accepted ideas of locomotion and have legs, because everything you're used
to that moves on the ground has legs ;-)

>mathematics and computer science - something that people do seem to
>intuitively expect until the Python way is beaten into them.
You mean until the burn-in from their first over-repeated viewpoint exposure fades ;-)
>
>To me, 'Pythonic' expresses 'doing the right thing'. In this case, in
>my view, Python does the wrong thing and expects everyone to get used
Expand your set of views. I think you will find one where you will see Python
as doing the right thing, for the most part. ;-)
>to it.

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From owski at hotmail.com  Mon Jul 14 19:22:18 2003
From: owski at hotmail.com (Adam Ruth)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 23:22:18 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Qualified appology (was Re: anything like C++ references?)
References: <b8c3hvsesjoumiboobml3nsnajtha99mp1@4ax.com> 
	<mailman.1058129901.28248.python-list@python.org> 
	<plk3hv0s1m2egf4s34jo6vjedk0q8r2mu9@4ax.com> 
	<m365m6ul5c.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> 
	<1br3hv4434gn7p2pdg1bgtg8dtlak3id3s@4ax.com> 
	<f0f51c80.0307140708.3c88363d@posting.google.com> 
	<jm76hvkmdqq3erpd89mcvo0l1d0sbfcivm@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <20030714172215452-0600@news.xmission.com>

<snip buncha stuff>

I started to write a response, and then I realized that it would be 
pointless.  We're just gonna have to be happy in each other's ignorance.  
Our skulls are too thick for each other's arguments.

I'm gonna stick with the idea that we're both wrong.

Even-though-your-more-wrong-erly yours,

Adam Ruth



From JensRie at gmx.de  Fri Jul 11 01:56:53 2003
From: JensRie at gmx.de (Jens Riedel)
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 07:56:53 +0200
Subject: Zope problem:  objectValues('Folder')
References: <mailman.1057887859.26678.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3F0E51A5.3060600@gmx.de>

Craig Funk schrieb:
> The objectValues() will only return a list of the folders if it is called
> from with a DTML Method. If you are calling it from within the context of a
> Document it will not work. The method is called within the context of the
> folder so everything is fine. That is why it would work in
> standard_html_header. However a Document has it's own context.
> 
> Craig

Thanks, that was it!

regards,
Jens




From gh at ghaering.de  Mon Jul 21 18:23:28 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 00:23:28 +0200
Subject: [OT] SCO is Going After End Users
In-Reply-To: <4868482a.0307211336.4ca9493a@posting.google.com>
References: <4868482a.0307211336.4ca9493a@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3F1C67E0.7070805@ghaering.de>

Russ Salsbury wrote:
> ComputerWorld says that SCO is going to charge Linux end users a
> license fee for "the opportunity to run Linux legally."
> <http://www.computerworld.com/softwaretopics/os/linux/story/0,10801,83287,00.html?nas=PM-83287>
>  Lots of companies will pony up.
> 
> I realize that this is OT, 

Then please keep it to the appropriate groups. I'm sick and tired of 
"news" about SCO's alleged claims.

> but SCO's action strikes at the heart of
> Open Source. Somebody with the right patents can try to tax or shut
> down the rest of us, regardless of the validity of their claims. [...]

That may be so in the US. In Germany, SCO is not allowed to spread their 
FUD any further for the time being:

http://www.golem.de/0305/25730.html (German)

I'm too lazy to find an English translation for you.

Please let's keep this stuff off list. SCO is gaining way too much 
attention already. And this is all they want: increase their stock 
value/hope to be bought out.

Explicit Reply-To set if you fell you need to discuss this further with 
me. Otherwise EOD from my side.

-- Gerhard




From frobozz_electric at hotmail.com  Mon Jul  7 11:06:31 2003
From: frobozz_electric at hotmail.com (Sean Ross)
Date: 7 Jul 2003 15:06:31 GMT
Subject: Gathering variable names from within a function.
References: <mailman.1057315927.28411.python-list@python.org> <2259b0e2.0307050511.55253683@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bec29n$dg0$1@driftwood.ccs.carleton.ca>

This will seem excessive, but it`s a little hack I`ve been playing with.
WARNING: It`s incomplete, and, in general,  it should probably *not* be
used. Still, here it is, if you`re interested:

import inspect

class ThisResolutionError(Exception):
    pass

def this():
    "returns the function object that calls it"
    # get calling function's name from outer frame
    fname = inspect.currentframe(1).f_code.co_name
    frameno = 2
    func = None
    while func is None:
        # search the outer frames for a reference to this function
        try:
            func = inspect.currentframe(frameno).f_locals.get(fname, None)
            frameno += 1
        except ValueError:
            # reached end of call stack
            raise ThisResolutionError, "could not resolve %s"%fname
    return func  # return this function object

'this()' can be used to get hold of the function that you're currently in;
you may then manipulate or inspect that function as you please.

for example:

def modvars(arg1, arg2):
    "records it's own modified variables"
    var1 = arg1
    var2 = arg2
    var3 = arg1+arg2
    this().__dict__ = vars()
    print this().__doc__
    return var3

modvars(1,2)
print modvars.__dict__

# OUTPUT:
# records it's own modified variables
# {'arg1': 1, 'arg2': 2, 'var1': 1, 'var3': 3, 'var2': 2}


'this()' appears to work for functions, including nested functions, but it
does not work for bound/unbound methods, or functions stored in a dictionary
(yet). For instance, you can do the following:

def f():
    def g():
        print "g says 'Hello'"
    this().g = g
print f.g
print f.g()
# <function g at 0x00958C60>
# g says 'Hello'

But you can't do this:

def f():
    def g():
        "g says 'Hello'"
        print this().__doc__
    this().g = g
print f.g()
# ThisResolutionError: could not resolve g

Anyway, it's still pretty neat to be able to grab hold of a function, from
inside itself, and work with it.
Sean





From intentionally at blank.co.uk  Sun Jul 13 23:43:07 2003
From: intentionally at blank.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 04:43:07 +0100
Subject: anything like C++ references?
References: <b8c3hvsesjoumiboobml3nsnajtha99mp1@4ax.com> <mailman.1058129901.28248.python-list@python.org> <plk3hv0s1m2egf4s34jo6vjedk0q8r2mu9@4ax.com> <m365m6ul5c.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <mailman.1058145500.19181.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <e464hvcq48q3240ecfcs6jqhqf616q7v1a@4ax.com>

On 13 Jul 2003 20:18:25 -0500, Ian Bicking <ianb at colorstudy.com>
wrote:

>I think, then, that Stephen maybe wants to do something like:
>
>>>> a = ref(1)
>>>> b = a
>>>> b is a
>True
>>>> a + 2
>3
>>>> a = 5
>>>> b
>5
>
>And so on.  This is all quite doable in Python (implementation of ref
>left to the reader), except for the "a = 5" part.  Instead you'd have to
>do something like "a.set(5)".  Even though it is doable, of course, it's
>by way of clever hacks.

Well, during the 'debate', that's the basic idea that involved -
except that I'd use explicit pointer-dereferencing syntax.

Imagine, for instance, changing all assignments and other 'copying' to
use a copy-on-write system. Then add a pointer type and a 'newcopyof'
operator. And nick the C-style prefix '*' for dereferencing and add
'&' as a 'make a pointer to this object' operator (absolutely NOT a
physical memory address).

>>> a = 5
>>> b = a
>>> b is a
False

>>> a = &5
>>> b = a
>>> *b is *a
True

>>> a = &5
>>> b = newcopyof a        #  could be "b = &(*a)" in principle
>>> *b is *a
False

>>> a = BadPtr
>>> b = *a
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 11, in ?
BadDeref: pointer does not reference a valid object

>>> a = *1
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 12, in ?
TypeError: object doesn't support dereference operator


No need for a 'delete' equivalent because of garbage collection. No
possibility of referencing a bad pointer as there is no way to create
a bad pointer - except, of course, for the explicit BadPtr (or
whatever) which throws an exception if dereferenced.

>The problem that Stephen is not appreciating is that this sort of
>reference implies that "a" is a typed variable -- of type "pointer",
>somehow implicitly declared when it was initially assigned a ref
>object.  (He's not alone, because just a little while ago someone
>proposed a way to overload the meaning of "=", to achieve largely the
>same functionality)  

No - I'm aware of the issue. When people use lists to fake pointers,
they already need explicit notation to tell Python what they are
doing. I'd just rather go back to having explicit pointers, though
implemented in a way which is appropriate to scripting languages and
which eliminates the major reliability issues of C-like pointer
mechanisms.

Using this approach, I don't need to declare variable types but I do
need to be explicit about when I'm using pointed-to-values and when
I'm using the pointers themselves.

Self-dereferencing pointers might also be nice in some ways, but with
serious problems. In C++, binding to the referenced object is done in
the declaration. That can't happen in Python, so a different method
would be needed - a special assignment operator, probably.

That then leads to the fundamental flaw. This couldn't be used to do
what, in C++, it does best - mimicking what Pascal calls 'var'
parameters.

If there were a 'procedure' abstraction, distinct from 'function', I
might be happy for all parameters to be implicitly dereferenced
pointers - I'd be happy being unable to change the pointer in this
case (in fact I'd like it enforced) - to get var parameter like
behaviour. There are nasty subtleties, though (what if someone creates
a pointer to the parameter, for instance - can it be used to change
the supposedly fixed pointer?). The C-like approach of just passing a
pointer as the expected parameter type has the advantage of simplicity
if nothing else.

>Anyway, that's my attempt at empathy with Stephen, if not agreement.  If
>he is wanting something other than what I've described, he should give
>other examples, because code examples are better than words.

I hope I've explained, now. It wasn't in my mind when I started out,
but it would certainly be a way to solve what I see as serious
problems.

A realistic change for Python? - I doubt it. It could be technically
feasable, perhaps (a 'from future' thing adding copy-on-write and the
new operators etc) but interaction with past modules would create
problems. And with my very limited understanding of Python internals,
I'm sure I'm missing much bigger problems. Not to mention that at this
point, the change would probably be so fundamental as to actually
create a new language.

This does, however, give an alternative that *could* have been
plausible (in a parallel universe, perhaps), and which would not have
resulted in certain common problems that do occur now.




From joerg.maier at rz.uni-mannheim.de  Sun Jul 27 17:54:18 2003
From: joerg.maier at rz.uni-mannheim.de (=?ISO-8859-15?Q?J=F6rg?= Maier)
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 23:54:18 +0200
Subject: python on windos os.popen and standart in and out
Message-ID: <bg1hnt$jufqn$1@ID-181971.news.uni-berlin.de>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Hy,
i want remote ls via shh from a windows machine. after starting the command
via
# stdoutssh = os.popen('/path/to/ssh.exe user at host ls -al ~' -+' 2>&1', 'r')
i have the possibility to watch the standart output in the pipe, but i cant
give the password. when giving 'w' as second parameter, i just can write,
but not read. ssh is installed by cygwin. i dont want to use ssh-keys,
because user shold be able to use the program on different machines without
much key-copying.

thank you for every advice.
regards,
joerg
- -- 
Hi
I am a signature virus. 
Please copy me to your .signature file to help me spread.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.2.2-rc1-SuSE (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQE/JEoOTYj8eXbs1acRAt6VAJ9YIDo6Busujj3TAun34t7kXG0VaQCfa4Bv
/I9/X+GUl3QjNw+xN2vOigY=
=qE1P
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----



From rastm2 at aol.commorespam  Wed Jul 23 14:47:32 2003
From: rastm2 at aol.commorespam (Raymond Arthur St. Marie II of III )
Date: 23 Jul 2003 18:47:32 GMT
Subject: very Very VERY dumb Question About The new Set( ) 's
Message-ID: <20030723144732.13232.00000523@mb-m10.aol.com>

very Very VERY dumb ? about the new Set( ) 's

Please be kind and read this like you know I've been up 33-34 hours reading
PEP's but...

Doc\ref 2.6 Delimiters show's three unused characters "@ $ ?".
@ sort of looks like and sort of sounds like a set an 
$  well sort of obvious. 
I can imagine that the $ would be confused for money and @ is ugly.

You folks have prob'ly been all over this.
Even thou I've been using Python since 1.4, I only joined the comp.lang.python
a couple weeks ago so I don't know the flame wars over the Set implimentation.

Ray St. Marie --- Afraid to sign his name to this one
Rastm2 at aol.bomB



From anton at vredegoor.doge.nl  Sat Jul  5 06:49:33 2003
From: anton at vredegoor.doge.nl (Anton Vredegoor)
Date: Sat, 05 Jul 2003 12:49:33 +0200
Subject: getting a submatrix of all true
References: <mailman.1057173484.29754.python-list@python.org> <be0b84$89a$0@216.39.172.122> <mailman.1057250527.7321.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <be6ant$637$1@news.hccnet.nl>

John Hunter <jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu> wrote:

>>>>>> "Bengt" == Bengt Richter <bokr at oz.net> writes:
>    Bengt> Brute force seems to work on this little example. Maybe it
>    Bengt> can be memoized and optimized and/or whatever to handle
>    Bengt> your larger matrix fast enough?
>
>Thanks for the example.  Unfortunately, it is too slow even for
>moderate size matrices (30,10).  I've been running it for over two
>hours for a 30x10 matrix and it hasn't finished.  And my data are
>1000x100!

I posted a somewhat long version before (inspired by Bengts idea) but
I remembered an easier way to generate all combinations, and also I
noticed that there is freedom in choosing to analyze rows or columns,
which can be computationally advantageous. Below is a version that
depends mostly on 2**N where N is the smallest of those two values.
Unfortunately 2**100 is still way to big a number, but my code can now
routinely solve 100x15 matrices ...

>Last night, I began to formulate the problem as a logic statement,
>hoping this would give me an idea of how to proceed.  But no progress
>yet.  But I have come to the conclusion that with P ones, brute force
>requires 2^P combinations.  With 1000x100 with 5% missing that gives
>me 2^5000.  Not good.  

IMO it depends (except for the amount time spent in copying data of
course) on the smallest of the number of rows or columns, so that's
2**100 in this case. Maybe for some matrices, your number is
preferable?

>Thanks for your suggestion, though.  If you have any more thoughts,
>let me know.

I hope you don't mind me following this too :-) Nice problem, and I'm
not so sure about my math as I sound above, if anyone can prove me
right or wrong I'd be happy anyway ...

Anton

---

class ScoreMatrix:
    
    def __init__(self, X):
        n1,n2 = len(X),len(X[0])
        if n2<n1:
            self.X = zip(*X)
            self.rotated = True
            n = n2
        else:
            self.X = X
            n = n1
            self.rotated = False
        self.R = range(n)
        self.count = 2**n
    
    def __getitem__(self,i):
        #score selected rows and columns by index
        if not (-1<i<self.count): raise IndexError
        rows =[x for j,x in enumerate(self.R) if 1<<j &i] 
        if rows:
            Y = [self.X[i] for i in rows]
            Z = [(i,z) for i,z in enumerate(zip(*Y)) if 1 not in z]
            cols = [i for i,z in Z]
            score = sum(map(len,[z for i,z in Z]))
            if self.rotated:  return score,cols,rows
            else: return score,rows,cols
        else: return 0,[],[]

def test():
    from random import random,randint
    f = .05
    r,c = 100,15
    X=[]
    for i in range(r):
        X.append([])
        for j in range(c):
            X[i].append(int(random()<f))
    M = ScoreMatrix(X)
    highscore = 0,[],[]
    for i,sc in enumerate(M):
        if sc > highscore:
            mi,highscore = i,sc
    sc,rows,cols = highscore
    print "maximum score:       %s" %(sc)
    print "index of this score: %s" %(mi)
    print "tabledata:"
    for i,r in enumerate(X):
        for j,c in enumerate(r):
            if i in rows and j in cols: print c,
            else: print 'x',
        print

if __name__=='__main__':
    test()






From gh at ghaering.de  Sat Jul 12 22:06:17 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 04:06:17 +0200
Subject: Any pure-python relational databases?
In-Reply-To: <8XZPa.12712$Hb.219315@news4.e.nsc.no>
References: <pan.2003.07.12.14.11.19.428895@127.0.0.1>
	<2a897f11.0307121143.4a37113b@posting.google.com>
	<8XZPa.12712$Hb.219315@news4.e.nsc.no>
Message-ID: <3F10BE99.7070307@ghaering.de>

Thomas Weholt wrote:
> "Wayne Pierce" <wayne at mishre.com> wrote: [...]
>>>2) Any kind of relational DBMS written in pure python that'll run on
>>>1.5.2?
>>
>>While not relational, have you looked at Metakit?
>>
>>http://www.equi4.com/metakit/python.html
> 
> Relational *and* simple install with good Python module; SQLite =>
> http://www.sqlite.org/

First, PySQLite is not pure Python, it needs to be compiled against the 
SQLite engine.

Second, PySQLite currently requires Python >= 2.1 and will require 
Python >= 2.2 in the 0.5 branch which I'll start eventually.

I'd be willing to make a backport to 1.5.2 if somebody pays me. But 
something as little fun as this I won't do for free :-P

-- Gerhard




From irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl  Mon Jul  7 08:02:34 2003
From: irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 12:02:34 -0000
Subject: Dr. Dobb's Python-URL! - weekly Python news and links (Jul  7)
Message-ID: <vgioaqs8uhtc6@corp.supernews.com>

QOTW:  "Confronting the Martellibot is like flirting with an encyclopedia,
I'd rather not do it myself, but I respect those who do, because it
produces knowledge."                        -- Anton Vredegoor

"Python and Java are not diametrically opposed religions that must fight
to the death in jihad, despite the existence of loonies favoring exactly
that.  They solve different problems; sometimes in similar ways, sometimes
not."                             -- Mark Hughes


Discussion
----------
     Michael Chermside explains what assignment in Python means, and how
     this conflicts with a proposed change of the assignment 'operator'.
         <http://groups.google.com/groups?threadm=mailman.1057084443.18247.python-list at python.org>

     Bengt Richter adds another twist to this discussion about overloading
     the assignment operator (which is a statement, really).
         <http://groups.google.com/groups?threadm=bdve6b$2nq$0 at 216.39.172.122>

     Geoff Howland discusses issues related to the use of Python
     executables for source code secrecy, instead of speed increase.
         <http://groups.google.com/groups?threadm=82j7gv8b8sr7nejhunf32hb3oitc08s4pa at 4ax.com>

     Erik Max Francis explains the difference in output of printing an
     element as part of a list and printing the element itself.
         <http://groups.google.com/groups?threadm=3F0669B5.679FB505 at alcyone.com>

     Mirko Zeibig shows that "bound method" objects can be used for
     callback functions, or "functors".
         <http://groups.google.com/groups?threadm=slrnbg55ts.c27.mirko-lists at zeibig.net>

     Erwin Andreasen explains that buffering is why a python script with
     multiple threads can seem to execute the same 'print' multiple times.
         <http://groups.google.com/groups?threadm=87vfulrkuz.fsf at andreasen.org>
	
     David Bolen adds insight to the question "when is unit-testing bad?",
     regarding elements that we think are hard to unit-test.
         <http://groups.google.com/groups?threadm=u1xx83hey.fsf at fitlinxx.com>

     Bengt Richter shows how to use zip to transpose a list to get a
     list of columns (apparently inspired by a Martellibot post).
         <http://groups.google.com/groups?threadm=bdspmf$leq$0 at 216.39.172.122>

     Tkinspect is a kind of debugger that allows one to diagnose a Tkinter
     process "from the outside".
	 <http://wiki.tcl.tk/tkinspect>

Announcements
-------------
     Python 2.3beta2, the second beta release of Python 2.3.
         <http://www.python.org/2.3/>

     Pyro 3.3 beta, an advanced and powerful Distributed Object
     Technology system written entirely in Python.
         <http://pyro.sourceforge.net/>

     4Suite 1.0a3, a comprehensive platform for XML and RDF processing,
     with base libraries and a server framework.
         <ftp://ftp.4suite.org/pub/4Suite/>

     DNSpython 1.0.0, a DNS toolkit for Python.
         <http://www.dnspython.org/>

     Eric 3.2, a full featured Python IDE that is written in PyQt using the
     QScintilla editor widget.
         <http://www.die-offenbachs.de/detlev/eric3.html>

     PyKota 1.12, a complete Print Quota and Accounting Software Solution
     for CUPS and LPRng.
         <http://www.librelogiciel.com/software/PyKota/action_Presentation>

     PyQt 3.7, a comprehensive set of Python bindings for Trolltech's
     Qt GUI toolkit.
         <http://www.riverbankcomputing.co.uk/pyqt/>

     PyRex 0.8.1, a language for writing Python extension modules.
         <http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg/python/Pyrex/>

     SQLObject 0.4, SQLObject is an object-relational mapper supporting
     Postgres, MySQL, and SQLite.
         <http://sqlobject.org>

     Scratchy 0.6, an Apache log parser and HTML report generator.
         <http://scratchy.sourceforge.net/>


Announcements
-------------
     PyRex 0.8, a language for writing Python extension modules.
         <http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg/python/Pyrex/>

     M2Crypto 0.11, a crypto and SSL toolkit for Python.
         <http://www.post1.com/home/ngps/m2>

     PythonCAD 8th release, a CAD package written in Python.
         <http://www.pythoncad.org/>

     DocUtils 0.3, a system for processing plaintext documentation
     (reStructuredText markup).
         <http://docutils.sourceforge.net/>

     Scratchy 0.4, an Apache log parser and HTML report generator.
         <http://scratchy.sourceforge.net/>

     ClientForm 0.0.10 and 0.1.3a, a Python module for handling
     HTML forms on the client.
         <http://wwwsearch.sourceforge.net/ClientForm/>

     SCons 0.90, a software construction tool (build tool, or make tool).
         <http://www.scons.org/>

     Twisted 1.0.6, an event-driven networking framework for server
     and client applications.
         <http://www.twistedmatrix.com/>
     David Mertz, our own Lulu,  presents Twisted to a wider audience.
	 <http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/linux/library/l-twist1.html>

     TTFQuery 0.2.4, builds on the FontTools module to allow you
     to query TTF font-files for metadata and glyph outlines.
         <http://sourceforge.net/projects/ttfquery/>


========================================================================
Everything you want is probably one or two clicks away in these pages:

    Python.org's Python Language Website is the traditional
    center of Pythonia
        http://www.python.org
    Notice especially the master FAQ
        http://www.python.org/doc/FAQ.html

    PythonWare complements the digest you're reading with the
    daily python url
         http://www.pythonware.com/daily  
    Mygale is a news-gathering webcrawler that specializes in (new)
    World-Wide Web articles related to Python.
         http://www.awaretek.com/nowak/mygale.html 
    While cosmetically similar, Mygale and the Daily Python-URL
    are utterly different in their technologies and generally in
    their results.

    comp.lang.python.announce announces new Python software.  Be
    sure to scan this newly-revitalized newsgroup at least weekly.
        http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&as_ugroup=comp.lang.python.announce

    Brett Cannon continues the marvelous tradition established by 
    Andrew Kuchling and Michael Hudson of summarizing action on the
    python-dev mailing list once every other week.
	http://www.python.org/dev/summary/

    The Python Package Index catalogues packages.
        http://www.python.org/pypi/

    The somewhat older Vaults of Parnassus ambitiously collects references
    to all sorts of Python resources.
        http://www.vex.net/~x/parnassus/   

    Much of Python's real work takes place on Special-Interest Group
    mailing lists
        http://www.python.org/sigs/

    The Python Business Forum "further[s] the interests of companies
    that base their business on ... Python."
	http://www.python-in-business.org

    The Python Software Foundation has replaced the Python Consortium
    as an independent nexus of activity
        http://www.python.org/psf/

    Cetus does much of the same
        http://www.cetus-links.org/oo_python.html

    Python FAQTS
        http://python.faqts.com/

    The old Python "To-Do List" now lives principally in a
    SourceForge reincarnation.
        http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?atid=355470&group_id=5470&func=browse
        http://python.sourceforge.net/peps/pep-0042.html
     
    The online Python Journal is posted at pythonjournal.cognizor.com.
    editor at pythonjournal.com and editor at pythonjournal.cognizor.com
    welcome submission of material that helps people's understanding
    of Python use, and offer Web presentation of your work.

    *Py: the Journal of the Python Language*
        http://www.pyzine.com

    Archive probing tricks of the trade:
        http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&as_ugroup=comp.lang.python&num=100
        http://groups.google.com/groups?meta=site%3Dgroups%26group%3Dcomp.lang.python.*

Previous - (U)se the (R)esource, (L)uke! - messages are listed here:
  http://www.ddj.com/topics/pythonurl/         
  http://purl.org/thecliff/python/url.html (dormant)
or
  http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&as_q=+Python-URL!&as_ugroup=comp.lang.python


Suggestions/corrections for next week's posting are always welcome.
E-mail to <Python-URL at phaseit.net> should get through.

To receive a new issue of this posting in e-mail each Monday morning
(approximately), ask <claird at phaseit.net> to subscribe.  Mention
"Python-URL!".


-- The Python-URL! Team--

Dr. Dobb's Journal (http://www.ddj.com) is pleased to participate in and
sponsor the "Python-URL!" project.




From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sun Jul 20 09:44:24 2003
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 20 Jul 2003 09:44:24 -0400
Subject: Python scripting with Paint Shop Pro 8.0
References: <kl3lhvgh5iillo5g9jvff92qkc8i2022nm@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <bfe6bo$cdr$1@panix2.panix.com>

In article <kl3lhvgh5iillo5g9jvff92qkc8i2022nm at 4ax.com>,
Marc Wilson  <marc at cleopatra.co.uk> wrote:
>
>I'm a complete Python newbie, though I know at least one regular in
>here. :)

Hi, Marc!

>What I'm trying to determine is: can I run these scripts from a
>command-line invocation?  I want to use the scripts to automatically
>convert files as they arrive, uploaded onto a website, not
>interactively.

Don't know PSP, but normally this kind of facility would be made
available through an importable module.  If that's not an option, check
to see whether PSP allows specifying a script on the command line;
presumably their embedded Python permits you to exit PSP.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

This is Python.  We don't care much about theory, except where it intersects 
with useful practice.  --Aahz



From g2h5dqi002 at sneakemail.com  Fri Jul 18 02:25:32 2003
From: g2h5dqi002 at sneakemail.com (Greg Ewing (using news.cis.dfn.de))
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 18:25:32 +1200
Subject: list() coercion
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1058414221.483.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1058400718.22076.python-list@python.org>	 <bf51v6$bc5v1$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de> <mailman.1058414221.483.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bf824i$bo8et$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>

Ian Bicking wrote:
> I'm not clear on how that will help...?  
> 
> It already does have an __iter__ method, but it returns a separate
> iterator.

It turns out that it won't help. I had thought that
calling __len__ would only happen if there were no
__iter__ method, but that seems not to be the case.

The only thing I can think of at the moment is not
to do list(x) at all, but list(iter(x)) instead.

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg




From deets_noospaam at web.de  Sun Jul 27 12:24:21 2003
From: deets_noospaam at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 18:24:21 +0200
Subject: multithreading-problem
Message-ID: <bg0ubo$ujq$00$1@news.t-online.com>

Hi,

I expirienced strange problems when using the module threading:

class Bar:
  def __init__(_, arg):
    _.arg = arg
  def work(_):
    while 1:
      print _.arg

def foo(arg):
  b = Bar(arg)
  b.work()

for i in xrange(4):
  thread = threading.Thread(target=lambda : foo(i))
  thread.start()

What I'd expect would be a sequence of prints like this
1
2
3
4
1
3
4
2

What I actualy get is this:
1
4
4
4
4
1
4
4
4

Placing a time.sleep(3) after the thread.start() fixed things. So it appears
that the curried lambda passed as target is somehow a reference equal for
all four invocations.

The used python is 2.2.<latest-cygwin>.

Regards,

Diez



From bokr at oz.net  Thu Jul  3 00:25:40 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 3 Jul 2003 04:25:40 GMT
Subject: getting a submatrix of all true
References: <mailman.1057173484.29754.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <be0b84$89a$0@216.39.172.122>

On Wed, 02 Jul 2003 14:16:57 -0500, John Hunter <jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu> wrote:

>
>I have a largish data set (1000 observations x 100 floating point
>variables), and some of the of the data are missing.  I want to try a
>variety of clustering, neural network, etc, algorithms on the data,
>and to keep life simple I want to reduce the dimensions of the matrix
>so that I have no missing values, since not all the algorithms are
>able to handle them and there is sufficient redundancy in the
>variables that I can afford to lose some.
>
>I am currently using a hack that works, but it makes me wonder if
>there is an optimal solution.  I define optimal as the removal of rows
>and columns such that there are no missing values and
>max(numRows*numCols).
>
>My current approach is to drop rows (observations) that have more than
>some prespecified number of missing variables, and then drop the
>columns (variables) of the reduced data set that have any missing
>values.  I chose the threshold for dropping a row by eyeballing the
>distribution of number of missing variables per observation, pick a
>number on the low end of the distribution, and dropping the rows that
>exceed the threshold.
>
>Another way of formulating the question: for a sparse boolean matrix
>(sparse on True), what is the optimal way to remove rows and columns
>so that the total number of elements in the matrix is maximal and
>there are no True values left.
>
>
>Example:
>   
>  0 0 0 
>  0 0 0 candidate sub matrix has 12 elements
>  0 0 0       
>  0 0 0 
>
>1 0 0 0 1
>0 0 0 0 0    0 0 0 0 0    
>0 0 0 0 0    0 0 0 0 0  candidate submatrix has 15 elements
>0 0 0 0 0    0 0 0 0 0 
>0 0 1 0 0   
>
>      0 0
>      0 0 candidate submatrix has 8 elements
>      0 0 
>      0 0 
>
>I want to programatically extract the 15 element matrix

If I understand your original optimality definition, that would be suboptimal.
I.e., how about the 16-element matrix? (x's mark the corresponding zeroes)

 1 0 0 0 1
 x x 0 x x
 x x 0 x x
 x x 0 x x
 x x 1 x x   

Or do they have to be adjacent?

>
>Following the approach described above, I get the desired answer in
>the example below, though this is a hack solution and I have the
>feeling there is a better one.
>
>    from Numeric import nonzero, array, take, sum
>
>    X = array([[1, 0, 0, 0, 1],
>               [0, 0, 0, 0, 0],
>               [0, 0, 0, 0, 0],
>               [0, 0, 0, 0, 0],
>               [0, 0, 1, 0, 0]])
>
>    goodObsInd = nonzero(sum(X,1)<2)  # observations with < 2 missing variables
>    X = take(X, goodObsInd)           # drop the bad
>
>    goodVarInd = nonzero(sum(X)==0)   # variables with no missing data
>    X = take(X, goodVarInd, 1 )       # drop the bad variables
>
>    print X
>

Brute force seems to work on this little example. Maybe it can
be memoized and optimized and/or whatever to handle your larger matrix fast enough?

====< submatrix.py >================================
X = [
    [1, 0, 0, 0, 1],
    [0, 0, 0, 0, 0],
    [0, 0, 0, 0, 0],
    [0, 0, 0, 0, 0],
    [0, 0, 1, 0, 0]
]

def optimrcs(mx, rows=[], cols=[]):
    if not rows or not cols: return 0,[],[]
    maxscore = 0
    for r in rows:
        if not mx[r].count(1): continue
        for c in cols:
            if not mx[r][c]: continue
            # eval column submatrix vs row submatrix
            colsxthis = cols[:]; colsxthis.remove(c)
            colscore, rset, cset = optimrcs(mx, rows, colsxthis)
            if colscore>maxscore:
                maxscore, maxrows, maxcols = colscore, rset, cset 
            rowsxthis = rows[:]; rowsxthis.remove(r)
            rowscore, rset, cset = optimrcs(mx, rowsxthis, cols)
            if rowscore >= maxscore:
                maxscore, maxrows, maxcols = rowscore, rset, cset 
    if not maxscore:
        return len(rows)*len(cols), rows, cols
    return maxscore, maxrows,maxcols

if __name__ == '__main__':
    score, rowsel, colsel = optimrcs(X, range(5), range(5))
    print 'Score = %s, rows = %s, cols = %s' % (score,rowsel,colsel)
    print
    for r in range(5):
        row = X[r]
        for c in range(5):
            if r in rowsel and c in colsel:
                print '<%s>'% row[c],
            else: 
                print ' %s '% row[c],
        print
====================================================
Running it results thus:

[21:24] C:\pywk\clp>submatrix.py
Score = 16, rows = [1, 2, 3, 4], cols = [0, 1, 3, 4]

 1   0   0   0   1
<0> <0>  0  <0> <0>
<0> <0>  0  <0> <0>
<0> <0>  0  <0> <0>
<0> <0>  1  <0> <0>

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From norproaj at yahoo.com  Tue Jul  8 17:15:52 2003
From: norproaj at yahoo.com (Dianne Combs)
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 14:15:52 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Advocate Media/The Northeast Progressive Advocate Journal/San Francisco Bay
Message-ID: <20030708211552.19262.qmail@web60006.mail.yahoo.com>

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From tdelaney at avaya.com  Thu Jul 24 20:55:56 2003
From: tdelaney at avaya.com (Delaney, Timothy C (Timothy))
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 10:55:56 +1000
Subject: recognizing empty iterators
Message-ID: <338366A6D2E2CA4C9DAEAE652E12A1DE8D4785@au3010avexu1.global.avaya.com>

> From: Michele Simionato [mailto:mis6 at pitt.edu]
> 
> BTW, the fact that an empty iterator is True is somewhat strange,
> considering that [],() and "" are False; on the other hand, generic
> objects are True, so the point can be debated ...

It is impossible to know, in the general case, if an iterator is empty. The primary reason for this is that many iterators are destructive e.g. file iterators. A wrapper iterator can be used around a destructive iterator that caches information, but that's about the best you can do unless the iterator is resettable.

An iterator may in fact be conceptually empty at one instant, then the next instant not be empty...

All it is possible to know is if an iterator has been exhausted *for now* - and that is if it raises StopIteration. Technically this does not mean that the iterator is permanently exhausted - it could start returning values at a later date, but this would be very confusing to people ;)


Tim Delaney




From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Tue Jul  8 12:57:36 2003
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 11:57:36 -0500
Subject: ftp a file by date and name match
In-Reply-To: <1001ff04.0307080629.7ef1e277@posting.google.com> (bobx@linuxmail.org's
 message of "8 Jul 2003 07:29:14 -0700")
References: <1001ff04.0307080629.7ef1e277@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <m2of059csf.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

>>>>> "Bob" == Bob  <bobx at linuxmail.org> writes:

    Bob> I am trying to get the latest file from an ftp site that
    Bob> matches a pattern and is the latest one. I have it in Perl
    Bob> and would like to see the Python version for comparison.

Here's analogous code to filter a list of filenames using a regex in
python.  For simplicity, I'll just make up the list of filenames
rather than get them from some ftp server

  import re, sys

  files = ['20021203.somename.x86.exe',
           '20030103.somename.x86.exe',
           '20030503.somename.x86.exe',
           'README',]

  matches = [fname for fname in files if re.match('\d{8}.*x86.exe', fname)]
  matches.sort()        # sort to get the most recent last

  if len(matches)==0: 
      print 'No file matched'
      sys.exit()  # byebye

  recent = matches[-1]  # get the last element of the list

Note if you assume the file list is already ordered lexographically
and don't need to sort, and don't want to check for the no match
condition, and like tight, hard to read perl code, you could just do
everything in one line, though this is frowned upon by python fans.

 recent = [fname for fname in files if re.match('\d{8}.*x86.exe', fname)][-1]

Now we have the filename of the most recent match, and can proceed to
fetch it from the ftp server.  Here's some example code to log into an
ftp server, change dir, and fetch a file in binary mode.  Again, I'll
just make up a filename

  from ftplib import FTP
  recent = 'welcome.msg'  # an example file for testing
  ftp = FTP()   # connect to host, default port
  ftp.connect('ftp.gnu.org')
  ftp.login('ftp', 'jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu') #user, pass
  ftp.cwd('/pub')
  # get the most recent file and store it on the local sys with same name
  ftp.retrbinary('RETR %s' % recent, file(recent, 'wb').write)

All done. All you have to do now is get a listing of files from your
favorite ftp server and glue the two pieces together.

Here are the docs for the ftplib module (part of the standard library)
http://python.org/doc/current/lib/module-ftplib.html

Perhaps you'll join the ranks of the converted?

JDH




From pinard at iro.umontreal.ca  Mon Jul 21 22:27:11 2003
From: pinard at iro.umontreal.ca (=?iso-8859-1?q?Fran=E7ois_Pinard?=)
Date: 21 Jul 2003 22:27:11 -0400
Subject: Flat file to associative array.
In-Reply-To: <338366A6D2E2CA4C9DAEAE652E12A1DE8D426D@au3010avexu1.global.avaya.com>
References: <338366A6D2E2CA4C9DAEAE652E12A1DE8D426D@au3010avexu1.global.avaya.com>
Message-ID: <oqbrvnb8jk.fsf@titan.progiciels-bpi.ca>

[Delaney, Timothy C (Timothy)]

> > From: Alex [mailto:bogus at antispam.com]
> > 
> > What would be the best way to convert a flat file of products into
> > a multi-dimensional array? The flat file looks like this:
> > 
> > Beer|Molson|Dry|4.50
> > Beer|Molson|Export|4.50
> > Shot|Scotch|Macallan18|18.50
> > Shot|Regular|Jameson|3.00

> Have you tried any of the CSV/DSV (delimiter-separated libraries). They
> may be overkill, but you may also be able to get a 1 or 2 line solution
> out of them.

Python does not directly have multi-dimensional arrays deep down, but by
using a tuple as index, we get the feeling and effect of a multi-dimensional
array.

Going without such libraries makes a longer solution, 4 lines maybe :-)
Here is an untried proposal.

dictionary = {}
for line in file('FLAT-FILE-NAME'):
    fields = line.split('|')
    dictionary[tuple(fields[:-1])] = fields[-1].rstrip()

-- 
Fran?ois Pinard   http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/~pinard




From i at mindlace.net  Wed Jul  9 00:02:19 2003
From: i at mindlace.net (emf)
Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 21:02:19 -0700
Subject: regexp and filenames
In-Reply-To: <befn47$5u4$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
References: <befn47$5u4$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <2147483647.1057698139@[10.0.1.2]>

--On 8 Tuesday, July 2003 20:24 -0400 hokiegal99 
<hokiegal99 at hotmail.com> wrote:

> I have a bit of a problem that I think Python can solve, but I need a
> bit of direction. I'm replacing 12 Macs with PCs. Macs allow
> characters in filenames that Windows does not, specifically the
> following:
>
> : * ? " < > | / \
>
> I would like to write a script that searches through a directory for
> filenames that contain any of the aboved listed characters and
> replaces them with a - (the minus sign).
>
> I'm familiar with regexp, but I've only used it in Python to act on
> the contents of a file, not filenames in a directory. Any pointers on
> how to approach this are welcome!
>

This should do the trick. You can steal walk from 2.3 and use it in 2.2 
with hardly any modifications, if you're using 2.2.

import os, re

# | and \ have to be escaped;
# the r prefix on the string keeps it from being a huge escape:
badcharset = re.compile(r'[*:?"<>/\|\\]')

for root, dirs, files in os.walk('/'): #or however you spell root on 
your mac
    for file in files:
        badchars = badcharset.findall(file)
        newfile = ''
        for badchar in badchars:
            newfile = file.replace(badchar,'-')
        if newfile:
            newpath = os.path.join(root,newfile)
            oldpath = os.path.join(root,file)
            os.rename(oldpath,newpath)

Hope that helps,

~mindlace
http://mindlace.net




From irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl  Wed Jul  2 16:47:32 2003
From: irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 22:47:32 +0200
Subject: Suggesting for overloading the assign operator
In-Reply-To: <bdve6b$2nq$0@216.39.172.122>
References: <6f03c4a5.0306301931.3f15fbb7@posting.google.com> <mailman.1057072504.30095.python-list@python.org> <bdteop$t9u$0@216.39.172.122> <mailman.1057156208.3507.python-list@python.org> <bdve6b$2nq$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <3f0344e2$0$49115$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

Bengt Richter wrote:

> Hm, it just occurred to me that one could have yet another form of sugar
> [ It's now later, and I think this may be more than sugar ;-) ]
> to help with this, by treating the dot operator slightly more symmetrically,
> like, e.g., '+'.

[...lots of interesting examples...]

>     f.readlines()
> 
> would effectively become
> 
>     readlines.__rgetattribute__(f)()
> 
> if there were no readlines method on f, and this could
> wrap f on the fly to provide the missing readlines method.

My head spins... I don't know if I should consider these ideas very
powerful -- or very evil... My guts tell me that this could be very
powerful indeed. However my intuition tells me that there is a big
catch about this, but I don't know what it is yet... :-P

--Irmen




From shellegouarch at programmationworld.com  Mon Jul  7 18:52:50 2003
From: shellegouarch at programmationworld.com (sylvain HELLEGOUARCH)
Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 22:52:50 GMT
Subject: PyIrc module
Message-ID: <20030707225250.7171.qmail@cs06.tgv.net>

Hello everyone, 

This is my first message round here :) 

Well, my message is more or less an announcment of my pyirc module for 
Python (uh uh surprise this is the right place :)). 

This module tries to implement both RFC 1459 and 2812 about IRC protocol. 
I've decided to code my own module as Python has a lack of IRC ones. 
Generally speaking, either they are not up-to-date anylonger or they are 
written for a specific GUI. 

My module is far from being perfect right now but it provides : 

 - an easy way to connect/disconnect from any servers (damn those servers 
which don't respect RFC rules !!!!)
 - a way to join/part channels
 - a way to send private messages as well as notices
 - a way to ask the servers for some info (admin,stats,trace command for 
instance)
 - a way to ask a client for some info
 - almost full CTCP/DCC support (DCC chat/send/get are supported)
... 

Everything is done with modules included in Python 2.2.2 which means that 
you don't need extra modules. 

I've written two clients demos to show how it works. One with PyGtk 2 and 
the other with PyQt (3.6). I've planned to write a Zope product as soon as 
possible. 

The drwaback right now is mainly the lack of documentation. I must do some 
code clean-up as well. But the module works. 

You can find more info here :
http://pyirc.tuxfamily.org/
http://freshmeat.net/projects/pyirc/ 

Please try it and help to improve it. Im' not a Python guru so I guess there 
are some different ways to do what I've done so let me know. 

Bye for now.
 - Sylvain Hellegouarch




From nospam at mega-nerd.com  Thu Jul 17 05:25:13 2003
From: nospam at mega-nerd.com (Erik de Castro Lopo)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 09:25:13 GMT
Subject: Linux - python vs sh
References: <mailman.1058429007.4582.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3F166B4B.C51AAC2E@mega-nerd.com>

Krisztian Kepes wrote:
> 
> Hi !
> 
> I want to list my rpm database to file with this:

<snip>

> But how I get the rpm's output in my py program ?
> list= rpm -qa

import commands, string
[status, rpmoutput] = commands.getstatusoutput('rpm -qa')
rpmlist = string.split (rpmoutput, '\n')

Erik
-- 
+-----------------------------------------------------------+
  Erik de Castro Lopo  nospam at mega-nerd.com (Yes it's valid)
+-----------------------------------------------------------+
Q. What is the difference between Jurassic Park and Microsoft?
A. One is an over-rated high tech theme park based on prehistoric
   information and populated mostly by dinosaurs, the other is a 
   Steven Spielberg movie.



From paul.m at speakeasy.net  Thu Jul 31 19:30:31 2003
From: paul.m at speakeasy.net (Paul M)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 19:30:31 -0400
Subject: Plotting points with DISLIN
In-Reply-To: <joiiivsm50cr8f4hv3da8ggujgf48vkibd@4ax.com>
References: <joiiivsm50cr8f4hv3da8ggujgf48vkibd@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <rOKcnSalyOALO7SiRTvUqA@speakeasy.net>

Bob Perlman wrote:

> Hi - 
> 
> I've been getting good results using the DISLIN data plotting package
> with Python.  But I've been unable to plot points instead of curves.
> Can someone tell me how to turn off the between-points interpolation?
> And if there is a way to do it, is there a way to change the style of
> points plotted?
> 
> Thanks,
> Bob Perlman


Hi Bob,

For a slightly more pythonic wrapper around DISLIN see:

http://kim.bio.upenn.edu/~pmagwene/disipyl.html

--Paul




From ianb at colorstudy.com  Fri Jul 25 22:03:40 2003
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: 25 Jul 2003 21:03:40 -0500
Subject: path module
In-Reply-To: <20030725215602.Q6906@prim.han.de>
References: <1057651068.5348.386.camel@lothlorien>
	 <20030708113219.H6906@prim.han.de>
	 <mailman.1057686613.6463.python-list@python.org>
	 <11234c14.0307211016.344d40bc@posting.google.com>
	 <mailman.1059144006.6426.python-list@python.org>
	 <just-8DDA38.17221725072003@news1.news.xs4all.nl>
	 <20030725184158.O6906@prim.han.de>
	 <1059155133.24478.10738.camel@lothlorien>
	 <20030725203322.P6906@prim.han.de>
	 <1059160667.28096.10876.camel@lothlorien>
	 <20030725215602.Q6906@prim.han.de>
Message-ID: <1059185020.28092.11625.camel@lothlorien>

On Fri, 2003-07-25 at 14:56, holger krekel wrote:
> > The multiple walk methods would only be a shortcut anyway.  Again, they
> > might be difficult in a situation like a URL where directory and file
> > are intermingled (and maybe ReiserFS 4...?) -- which maybe is okay, a
> > urlpath object simply wouldn't implement that walker.
> 
> Yep, URL pathes have no notion of directories and files.  Thus a general 
> URL path can't have a 'listdir' method and thus we can't recurse.  
> You can easily special case it for Apache's "Indexes" view, though :-)

WebDAV does, though, doesn't it?  But you can still edit the directory
resource, so it gets overloaded.  WebDAV's use of GET is messed up.

And we should specify HTTP, of course, since FTP does have a notion of
directories, and possibly other URL methods would as well.

But this is a digression...

  Ian






From max at alcyone.com  Wed Jul 16 15:37:16 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 12:37:16 -0700
Subject: anything like C++ references?
References: <1058377188.3f158de4a3a51@mcherm.com> <mailman.1058377947.32563.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3F15A96C.D557570C@alcyone.com>

Moshe Zadka wrote:

> On Wed, 16 Jul 2003, Michael Chermside <mcherm at mcherm.com> wrote:
> 
> >     stuff[i] = newComplexObject(i++, "name", "fred")
> 
> I'm not entirely sure that C code is not undefined. I think it
> is, but it could be that I'm mistaken and that "=" is a "sequence
> point".
> It's a variant on the old
> 
> a[i]=i++
> 
> thing. The problem here is that it's not certain what happens first --
> the a[i] (evalating to an lvalue) or i++.

Assignments are definitely not sequence points.  But function calls are.
So the code is well-defined, and is equivalent to

	<temporary> = newComplexObject(i++, "name", "fred");
	stuff[i] = <temporary>;

(Presuming, of course, newComplexObject is a function call.  If it were
implemented as a macro then that'd be something else.)

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ Everybody's playing the game / But nobody's rules are the same
\__/  Florence, _Chess_



From dave at pythonapocrypha.com  Sat Jul 12 22:15:36 2003
From: dave at pythonapocrypha.com (Dave Brueck)
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 20:15:36 -0600
Subject: anything like C++ references?
In-Reply-To: <1058050617.28466.279.camel@lothlorien>
References: <000301c348c7$3c501980$21795418@dell1700> <1058050617.28466.279.camel@lothlorien>
Message-ID: <200307122015.36808.dave@pythonapocrypha.com>

On Saturday 12 July 2003 04:56 pm, Ian Bicking wrote:
> On Sat, 2003-07-12 at 17:45, Brian Quinlan wrote:
> > > void change(int& i)
> > > {
> > >    i++;
> > > }
> >
> > The idiomatic way to write this code in python would be:
> >
> > def change(val):
> > 	return val + 1
>
> To be more specific, you would achieve the same effect with:
>
> def change(val):
>     return val + 1
> i = change(i)
>
> As opposed to the C++ where you'd do:
>
> change(i) // no assignment needed
>
>
> There is no direct Python equivalent to the C++ function, for all sorts
> of reasons (most of them very deliberate).

Your response above (that the normal thing to do in Python is just return the 
modified value) made me wonder if most people are asking about 
pass-by-reference not because they want pass-by-reference, but because in C 
it's generally a nuisance to return stuff from functions, especially multiple 
values, so you end up learning about pointers and/or pass-by-reference. 

IOW, if you could erase the influence of previous languages would this FAQ 
become "how can I return multiple things from a function" more often than it 
would become "how can I modify an object from inside a function"?

-Dave




From vze4rx4y at verizon.net  Mon Jul 14 22:12:51 2003
From: vze4rx4y at verizon.net (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 02:12:51 GMT
Subject: Python Mystery Theatre -- Episode 2:  Así Fue
References: <VorQa.15236$Kw1.587@nwrdny02.gnilink.net> <3F130ED4.2030804@skynet.be> <mailman.1058217683.17386.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <DqJQa.669$I4.43@nwrdny01.gnilink.net>

[Helmut Jarausch]
> > OK, I believe to know why the last line
> > print '3' three times, since only a reference
> > to 'f' is stored within the lambda expression
> > and this has the value 'thrice' when 'print'
> > is executed.
> >
> > But how can I achieve something like an
> > evaluation of one indirection so that
> > a reference to the function referenced by 'f'
> > is stored instead.

[effbot]
> assuming you meant "the function reference by 'f' when the lambda
> is created", the easiest solution is to use default argument binding:
>
>     flam = [lambda x,f=f: f(x) for f in funcs]
>
> the "f=f" construct will bind the inner name "f" to the current value of
> the outer "f" for each lambda.
>
> the nested scopes mechanism is often introduced as the "right way" to
> do what was done with argument binding in earlier versions of Python.
> however, nested scopes bind *names*, while argument binding binds
> *values*.

This is an excellent explanation of what was being demonstrated.


Raymond Hettinger





From rastm2 at aol.commorespam  Sun Jul 27 00:57:10 2003
From: rastm2 at aol.commorespam (Raymond Arthur St. Marie II of III )
Date: 27 Jul 2003 04:57:10 GMT
Subject: Loading and executing an arbitrary Python script from within Python
References: <20030726094624.15169.00000599@mb-m13.aol.com>
Message-ID: <20030727005710.05032.00000550@mb-m26.aol.com>

>Dustin: shares his code with us:

>def run(self):
>        while self.threads:
>            for g in self.threads:
>                try:
>                    g.next()
>                except StopIteration:
>                    self.threads.remove(g)
>

Hi Dustin, 
I can't help, because I'm confused by 
this section of code. Particularly "g.next( )" 
in the try statement. 

Did I get the concept wrong about using
a generater in a try section? Is this code legal anyone?

Or does this only pertain to the yeild statement in a try.

Ray St.Marie
Rastm2 at aol.com





From bgailer at alum.rpi.edu  Sat Jul  5 11:58:47 2003
From: bgailer at alum.rpi.edu (Bob Gailer)
Date: Sat, 05 Jul 2003 09:58:47 -0600
Subject: Frustration with spurious posts.
In-Reply-To: <5E982A0C1799274AAD22EE21DE6373DD0392D593@cbibipnt08.hc.bt.
 com>
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20030705095656.01a4e060@66.28.54.253>

Does anyone know why we keep getting these posted to the list. Is there a 
way to stop it?

Undeliverable: Re: Movie

At 03:56 PM 7/5/2003 +0100, postmaster at bthub01.bt.com wrote:

>Your message
>
>   To:      N.Winton at axion.bt.co.uk
>   Subject: Re: Movie
>   Sent:    Sat, 5 Jul 2003 15:59:01 +0100
>
>did not reach the following recipient(s):
>
>N.Winton at axion.bt.co.uk on Sat, 5 Jul 2003 15:56:09 +0100
>     The recipient name is not recognized
>         The MTS-ID of the original message is:
>c=gb;a=bt;p=bt;l=CBIBIPNT0803070514563GAHP1WW
>     MSEXCH:IMS:EXCHANGE:BTHUB01:CBIBIPNT08 3550 (000B09B6) 550 5.1.1
><N.Winton at axion.bt.co.uk>... User unknown


Bob Gailer
bgailer at alum.rpi.edu
303 442 2625
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From bokr at oz.net  Fri Jul 25 10:21:18 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 25 Jul 2003 14:21:18 GMT
Subject: file.close()
References: <edITa.131868$Ph3.17333@sccrnsc04> <mailman.1059052897.16526.python-list@python.org> <7xhe5b82ip.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <bfrecu$tl8$0@216.39.172.122>

On 25 Jul 2003 00:54:38 -0700, Paul Rubin <http://phr.cx at NOSPAM.invalid> wrote:
[...]
>I think a much better solution would involve a language extension,
>maybe a macro in some hypothetical macro extension for Python.  E.g.
>
>    with f = open(frob):
>      [do stuff with f]
>
>could be equivalent to:
>
>   f = open(frob)
>   try:
>     [do stuff with f]
>   finally:
>     f.done()                   # calls f.close()
>     del f
>
>"done" here is a generic method that gets called on exiting a "with"
>block.  
First reaction == +1, but some questions...

1) Is f.done() really necessary? I.e., doesn't an explicit del f take care of it
   if the object has been coded with a __del__ method? I.e., the idea was to get
   the effect of CPython's immediate effective del on ref count going to zero, right?

2) how about with two files (or other multiple resources)?

    with f1,f2 = file('f1'), file('f2'):
        [do stuff with f1 & f2]

What is the canonical expansion?

    f1 = file('f1')
    try:
        f2 = file('f2')
        try:
            [do stuff with f1 & f2]
        finally:
            del f2  # leaving f2.done() to f2.__del__
    finally:
        del f1 # ditto-like
        
or ??

Also, what about the attribute version, i.e.,

    ob.f = file(frob)
    try:
      [do stuff with ob.f]
    finally:
      del ob.f # calls f.__del__, which calls/does f.close()

I.e., ob.f = something could raise an exception (e.g., a read-only property)
*after* file(frob) has succeeded. So I guess the easiest would be to limit
the left hand side to plain names... 

Note that that restriction does not apply e.g. to a for loop construct:

 >>> class SE(object):
 ...     def _setp(self, val): print 'Side effect:', val
 ...     p = property(None,_setp)
 ...
 >>> se = SE()
 >>> for se.p in range(5): pass
 ...
 Side effect: 0
 Side effect: 1
 Side effect: 2
 Side effect: 3
 Side effect: 4

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From fredrik at pythonware.com  Wed Jul  2 06:37:23 2003
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 12:37:23 +0200
Subject: arbitrary long integer aritmetics
References: <bdtv1s$22dm$1@otis.netspace.net.au> <bduaof$4qu$1@main.gmane.org> <20030702101213.GE21059@frobozz>
Message-ID: <bduck8$cb7$1@main.gmane.org>

Andrew Bennetts wrote:

> I also note that your Python 2.2 does arithmetic differently to mine:
>
> $ python2.2
> Python 2.2.2 [etc etc]
> >>> 2147483647 * 2147483647 * 2147483647
> 9903520300447984150353281023L

file my example under "cut and paste errors".

</F>







From hwlgw at hotmail.com  Thu Jul  3 13:55:14 2003
From: hwlgw at hotmail.com (Will Stuyvesant)
Date: 3 Jul 2003 10:55:14 -0700
Subject: XML Validation with Python
References: <cb035744.0307020901.472c3573@posting.google.com> <3F042045.C5CB0248@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <cb035744.0307030955.1e4f3bfe@posting.google.com>

> [Alan Kennedy <alanmk at hotmail.com>]
> The only pure python validating parser is Lars Garshol's "xmlproc",
> which is a part of pyxml (a "third-party" optional extension). You can
> read the documentation for xmlproc here
> 
> http://www.garshol.priv.no/download/software/xmlproc/
> 
> and the bit about validating on the command line is here
> 
> http://www.garshol.priv.no/download/software/xmlproc/cmdline.html
> 
> Is there any reason why it has to be in the base distribution?
> 

Because I want to use it from a cgi script written in Python.  And I
am not allowed to install 3rd party stuff on the webserver.  Even if I
was it would not be a solution since it has to be easy to put it on
another webserver.  But of course: if there is a validating parser
written completely in Python then I can use it too!  If it runs under
Python 2.1.1, that is (that is what they have at the website).  I will
investigate this www.garshol.priv.no link you gave me, thank you.



From tim.one at comcast.net  Tue Jul 22 22:46:56 2003
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 22:46:56 -0400
Subject: python assignment
In-Reply-To: <fbf8d8f2.0307221659.1dd1ac77@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCAEJLEPAB.tim.one@comcast.net>

[dan]
> without stirring the pot too much --
>
> could someone please point me to whatever documentation exists on the
> philosophy, semantics, and practical implications of how Python
> implements the assignment operator?

It's too simple to explain <0.5 wink>.  Fredrik does a good job here:

    http://effbot.org/zone/python-objects.htm

> So far I can't find much useful in the regular documentation.  I
> understand the basic concept that names are bound to objects
> which exist on the heap, but that still doesn't explain why a = b
> doesn't _always_ cause a to point to the same object as b.

That's because a = b does always cause a to point to the same object as b.
If you think you found a case where that's not true, you're missing
something.

> What determines when the object in question is copied?

The rule that the object in question is never copied.  There are no
exceptions to this.  Copying an object requires invoking some method of the
object, or applying some function to the object.  For example, d.copy()
returns a (shallow) copy of a dict d, and L[:] returns a (shallow) copy of a
list L.

> What determines when a future maniplulation of the variable
> will cause it to point to an object that is already referenced by
> another variable? (see code below for an example).

Phrase that more precisely, and it will answer itself <wink>.  Seriously, I
don't know what you're asking there.

> What I need is an exact and unambiguous algorithm for determining when
> an assignment will change the id of the variable

Variables don't have ids, but objects do.  Assignment never changes the id
of an object.

> (or should I say, when the evaluation of an expression will cause a
> new object to be created).

Expressions may or may not create new objects, but assignment isn't an
expression in Python (assignment is a statement), and an assignment never
creates a new object.

> Some of the issues involved can be discerned from the
> following session:
>
>>>> a = 1
>>>> b = a
>>>> a is b
> True

That one is necessarily True.  Immediately after

    a = b

and assuming b is bound to *something*,

    a is b

always returns True.  The history and type of the object bound to b makes no
difference.

>>>> a += 1
>>>> a -= 1
>>>> a is b
> True

That one isn't defined.  It could just as well return False.  Which it
returns is an implementation detail, and may vary across implementations of
Python (including across Python releases).

>>>> a = 1.0
>>>> b = a
>>>> a is b
> True

As above, that was necessarily True.

>>>> a += 1
>>>> a -= 1
>>>> a is b
> False

And again that one isn't defined.  It could just as well return True, and
depends on implementation details.

>>>> a == b
> True

That one is fuzzy, because floating-point arithmetic is involved, and that's
subject to roundoff errors.

Note that

    x += y

isn't *just* an assignment statement, it's syntactic sugar for the
assignment

    x = x.__iadd__(y)

Whether the __iadd__() method of an object returns a pre-existing object, or
returns a new object, isn't defined in general.  It's up to each type's
implementation of __iadd__ to decide what it wants to do.  As an internal
optimization, the __iadd__ method of some immutable types chose to return
pre-existing objects *when that's convenient* for them.  It would be very
unusual (because bad design) for the __iadd__ method of a mutable type to
return a pre-existing object, though.





From martin at v.loewis.de  Sun Jul 13 18:18:34 2003
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-15?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 14 Jul 2003 00:18:34 +0200
Subject: Reloading nested modules
References: <mailman.1058132120.31051.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m31xwuul39.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Andy Jewell <andy at wild-flower.co.uk> writes:

> Does anyone know of a way to dynamically reload all the imported
> modules of a client module?

You could iterate over sys.modules and invoke reload for all of them.

Regards,
Martin



From justinjohnson at fastmail.fm  Thu Jul  3 09:11:58 2003
From: justinjohnson at fastmail.fm (Justin Johnson)
Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 07:11:58 -0600
Subject: win32service problems
Message-ID: <20030703131158.26AD537CBF@www.fastmail.fm>

Hello,

I created an NT service using win32service.  This service runs as a
particular user on the domain and accepts connections to run commands on
the server.  The service is working great on most of the servers I have,
but on one server it fails to start, with the following error message.

---
Error starting service: The service did not respond to the start or
control request in a timely fashion.
---

And I get the following dumped to the event logs...

---
Timeout (30000 milliseconds) waiting for the Twisted ClearCase Service
service to connect. 
---
The Twisted ClearCase Service service failed to start due to the
following error: 
The service did not respond to the start or control request in a timely
fashion.  
---

However, when I install the service without specifying my domain level
user it starts fine.  Also when I start it in debug mode it works fine. 
I checked the local policy settings to make sure the domain level user
has the same rights as he has on my other servers and there is no
difference.

Does anyone have any ideas why this is happening?  Also, do you know of
anywhere I can look to get better debug info, or to debug using my domain
level user?

Thanks much.
-Justin




From hokiegal99 at hotmail.com  Fri Jul 11 15:13:01 2003
From: hokiegal99 at hotmail.com (Tubby Tudor)
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 15:13:01 -0400
Subject: call one python script from within another
Message-ID: <ben27t$hj9$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>

What is the best way to call one python script from within another 
python script? For example:

one.py finishes succesfully and calls two.py which finishes OK and then 
calls three.py

Thanks guys!




From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Jul  7 16:45:43 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 16:45:43 -0400
Subject: Is there any solution  in PYTHON?
References: <mailman.1057607712.3822.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3F09DBF7.8B4470B6@engcorp.com>

A wrote:
> 
> I have a program that downloads some web pages. Sometimes there is a poor internet
> connection and my script freezes( hangs) and does not download ALL pages.
> Is there any solution how to test if the program works and if not re-start it from the point
> where it stopped?
> Or simply how to download ALL pages eventhough there is a timeout connection( can be
> of any value)?

I would think (not that I do this kind of thing often) that there would be
a better program than the one you are using, which can suck down all files
in a site *and* handle timeouts, which is obviously a pretty common problem.

Or is there a reason you want to use Python specifically?  Sounds more like
make-work to me.

-Peter



From andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au  Mon Jul 14 06:25:05 2003
From: andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au (Andrew MacIntyre)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 20:25:05 +1000 (EST)
Subject: PyVariant anyone
In-Reply-To: <3f125990$1_2@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com>
References: <3f125990$1_2@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com>
Message-ID: <20030714201823.R33711@bullseye.apana.org.au>

[posted & mailed]
On Mon, 14 Jul 2003, Paul Keating wrote:

> I need to call a C++ DLL from Python, for which I'm planning to use
> boost.python. But the DLL has been written to a VBA interface, and this
> means it expects to get variable length arrays as Windows Variants instead
> of lists or tuples.
>
> Anyone know how to construct a convincing Windows Variant in Python?

I've been able to do so with Thomas Heller's ctypes module, but I've not
got as far as dealing with arrays.

However, if you're going to use boost.python then I'd infer that you're
already using some C++ so it would be much easier to do the conversion at
the C++ interface level - my understanding is that a VARIANT is a C
structure, which for arrays points at another structure, which in turn
gives the number & type  of elements and a pointer to the actual
calloc()ed array data.

--
Andrew I MacIntyre                     "These thoughts are mine alone..."
E-mail: andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au  (pref) | Snail: PO Box 370
        andymac at pcug.org.au             (alt) |        Belconnen  ACT  2616
Web:    http://www.andymac.org/               |        Australia




From ark at acm.org  Sun Jul 13 13:51:36 2003
From: ark at acm.org (Andrew Koenig)
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 17:51:36 GMT
Subject: The definition of an object in Python
References: <94af9c5a.0307130919.1ab63400@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <yu991xwuiac7.fsf@tinker.research.att.com>

Avi>   Wesley says that every Python object must possess the following
Avi>   three characteristics: 1) an identity, which can be retrieved 
Avi>   by the function id(); 2) a type, which can be retrieved by
Avi>   the function type(); and 3) a value.

Avi>   But when I do the following

Avi>       mystring = 'hello'

Avi>       print mystring.id()

Avi>       print mystring.type()

Avi>   Python complains that mystring does not possess the attributes
Avi>   id and type.

type and id are functions, not methods.

>>> mystring = 'hello'
>>> print mystring.id()         # using id as a method doesn't work
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
AttributeError: 'str' object has no attribute 'id'
>>> print id(mystring)          # using id as a function does
1456272
>>> print type(mystring)        # ditto for type
<type 'str'>


-- 
Andrew Koenig, ark at acm.org



From gumuz at looze.net  Fri Jul 25 08:02:44 2003
From: gumuz at looze.net (Guyon Morée)
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 14:02:44 +0200
Subject: (Eclipse/TruStudio) Re: I am so impressed
References: <3f207dcc$0$137$1b62eedf@news.wanadoo.nl> <hu5rfb.7qn.ln@news1.interplanet.it>
Message-ID: <3f211b92$0$8296$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net>

did you install both packages from TruStudio?

you have to download the trustudio framework & the python devtools
be sure you've unzipped the files correctly in th plugin folder of eclipse

"deelan" <ggg at zzz.it> wrote in message
news:hu5rfb.7qn.ln at news1.interplanet.it...
> Guyon Mor?e wrote:
>
> > I've been looking for a nice python editor for a while. I was using a
great
> > general purpose editor called EditPlus. It did the job pretty good....
> >
> > I've now downloaded Eclipse with the TruStudio plug-ins from
www.xored.com
> > and it's great!
> after your suggestion i've downloaded both eclispe and trustudio.
> eclipse starts flawlessy but i cannot see any trace of trustudio
> python extensions. BTW eclipse runs smoothly on my office P4 1.4GHz,
512MB.
>
> there's should be some reference to python support
> in the IDE, right? something lile "new file --> python",
> or "new project --> python project", actually i only see
> java related stuff.
>
> following the website instructions i've just unzipped trustudio zip
> files (2) into eclipse folder (they actually installs under "plug-ins"
> folder). i've restarted eclipse a couple of times, but nothing
> changed
>
> any thoughts?
>
> later,
> deelan
>
> -- 
> goldicus1970 AT yahoo.it
> http://www.deelan.com/
>
>
>
>
>





From ratman at nmt.edu  Sun Jul 13 18:33:17 2003
From: ratman at nmt.edu (Jason Trowbridge)
Date: 13 Jul 2003 15:33:17 -0700
Subject: Python Mystery Theatre -- Episode 1:  Exceptions
References: <UiOPa.3259$Y92.1224@nwrdny01.gnilink.net>
Message-ID: <8f35dab2.0307131433.36b64e0@posting.google.com>

Okay, without looking at anybody else's answers, using the docs, or
trying out the examples.  This is straight from the head, cold.

Act I
's' is a list, and you can't lookup the resulting indice of the
sequence using the brackets.  A s.index( 'a') would be valid.

As for why the exception isn't caught: There is a missing tuple there.
 The following would work:
except (IndexError, TypeError):

The way it is currently given would only catch IndexError exceptions. 
The exception instance would then be bound to the TypeError name.

Act II
The type of msg is always type instance, because it is a class
instance.  The actual class is held under the msg.__class__ attribute.

Act III
I believe that you need to call Exception.__init__(self) in your
constructor.  When the string representation of the exception is
printed, it use's Exception.__str__() (maybe Exception.__repr__().  I
forget which one the traceback shows).  Since the instance hasn't been
initialized properly, that function can't print out its information.

Act IV
This has to do with string exceptions.  I'm not sure how a specific
string exception can be caught.  In any case, this is part of the
reason to stay away from string exceptions.  Additionally, string
exceptions are scheduled to eventually disappear from the language.

Act V
Without looking at the docs, I'd say that KeyError is derived from the
LookupError class.  Exceptions are supposed to be listed most-specific
to least specific, which translates to child classes before parent
classes here.

Hmm, time to look at the answers other people have given, and find how
badly off I am!

 _  () ()      Jason Trowbridge | "There has been a coup. The Mac
( '  .~.     Generic Programmer |  users are liberating the printers."
 \  = o =                       |   --Schlake
---"`-`-'"---+   ratman at nmt.edu |



From sketerpot at chase3000.com  Mon Jul 14 14:30:35 2003
From: sketerpot at chase3000.com (Peter Scott)
Date: 14 Jul 2003 11:30:35 -0700
Subject: training for newbies
References: <betqim$8re$1@atlantis.news.tpi.pl> <betv87$4jq$1@atlantis.news.tpi.pl>
Message-ID: <659f82ff.0307140637.53c573a2@posting.google.com>

> > do you know any sites with free programs for newbies, which will help me in
> > progress? i know that only way to develop is writing programs, but in my
> > book i don't have programs to write, only questions..
> 
> Check out http://www.uselesspython.com and Python Cookbook at
> http://aspn.activestate.com

I can't recommend the Python Cookbook enough. Get the book if you can
afford it. The discussions are great, giving you real understanding of
the things being discussed. There is a world of difference between
good python code and bad python code, and the python cookbook is a
great way to learn good python style: by example and discussion.

If you want programs to write, here are some ideas:

A web spider, which should support the robots exclusion protocol (see
the robotparser module in the standard library,
<http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/module-robotparser.html>). Try
extracting a list of images.

Something that takes an URL to an RSS file and spits out an HTML file.
You can also turn this into a CGI script if you like. This should be
good practice for error handling, since not all RSS files have the
same information. Some have Slashdot-style articles, with a headline,
an article summary, and a link. Some just have a date and a paragraph
about the author's cat. For extra credit, try making a module for
generating HTML output (preferably valid HTML 4.01 or XHTML 1.0---with
a seperate module, you just code the support once, and never worry
about validity again). If you make an extra layer on top of that, you
could generate output in more formats, like LaTeX. This is probably
overkill, but you did say that you wanted programs to write. :-)

Have fun, and good luck!



From abelikov72 at hotmail.com  Wed Jul  9 13:22:17 2003
From: abelikov72 at hotmail.com (Afanasiy)
Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 17:22:17 GMT
Subject: Python vs PHP
References: <mailman.1057574470.1750.python-list@python.org> <kmolgv4mp12o71ocion7ra0m2s9fcrqjdk@4ax.com> <begc78$rui$1@mawar.singnet.com.sg>
Message-ID: <euiogvgmafgaeedg6errde1oaipr8nqpmm@4ax.com>

On 9 Jul 2003 06:20:24 GMT, ngps at netmemetic.com (Ng Pheng Siong) wrote:

>According to Afanasiy  <abelikov72 at hotmail.com>:
>> Python web development is fragmented. 
>
>www.waferproject.org:
>
>  Wafer is a research project which compares the many open source web
>  application frameworks which are available using a common example
>  application. This research project is designed to compare the application
>  frameworks on a level field by specifying an example application so that
>  the application features become irrelevent and the merits of each
>  framework becomes the focus.
>
>Java ones only.

I explore and often create the feature lists of platforms through common
ground example applications in all my evaluations, web related or not.

It would be nice to have a Python equivalent. Unfortunately, for now I
need to just get started on some things myself rather than convince a
bunch of other people to do the same. I suppose this could be the best
way to show so many of the factors I've been listing for months which
are apparently invisible. I'm sure people agree with me, but they do
not participate in Usenet, and are very busy being important.

I can also imagine any sort of attempt at comparison, like a benchmark,
or the infamous language shootout, would be absolutely ridiculed.
I personally consider them fairly useful, but most do not and I am
wary of spending so much time on something which would eventually, or
perhaps not so eventually, devolve into personal attacks.



From bokr at oz.net  Sat Jul 26 15:11:53 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 26 Jul 2003 19:11:53 GMT
Subject: How safe is modifying locals()?
References: <BDcUa.100193$XV.6037947@twister.austin.rr.com>	 <MvCdnTkcoJNP_7yiXTWJjw@comcast.com>	 <WMdUa.100343$XV.6044659@twister.austin.rr.com> <mailman.1059173799.17228.python-list@python.org> <ZqlUa.102243$XV.6096809@twister.austin.rr.com> <bfttd5$gtc$1@online.de>
Message-ID: <bfujpp$lod$0@216.39.172.122>

On Sat, 26 Jul 2003 14:49:41 +0200, Stefan Schwarzer <sschwarzer at sschwarzer.net> wrote:

>Hi Paul
>
>Paul Paterson wrote:
>> This is a very interesting (and Pythonic) approach, thanks for 
>> suggesting it! This is certainly what I would try to do if I were 
>> writing the code from scratch. It may be possible to construct a 
>> "namespace" type object which gets passed to the function.
>
>I think the most common way to make a namespace in Python is
>
>class my_namespace: pass
>...
>my_namespace.a = 'foo'
>my_namespace.b = 'bar'
>
>Such namespaces are very similar to dictionaries:
>
>my_namespace = {}
>...
>my_namespace['a'] = 'foo'
>my_namespace['b'] = 'bar'
>
>but the first approach is a bit more readable.
>
>If you need many containers, you could use:
>
>class Container:
>     pass
>
>c1 = Container()
>c2 = Container()
>...
>c1.foo = 'foo'
>c2.foo = 'bar'
>
>Of course, if you have a better name for your container, that's even
>better. Think of Ian's Point example. :-)
>
Nice summary. Just to round it out, we could add using the type builtin.
I.e., type(cname, bases, cdict) works to create an instant class (new type),
and this can be used for some interesting alternative spellings, e.g.,

A one-off name space object:

 >>> nso = type('',(),{})()
 >>> nso
 <__main__. object at 0x007AC1E0>

BTW, funny that you can have a '' class name this way ;-) (I wonder if it can trigger a bug?)
 >>> `nso.__class__.__name__`
 "''"

 >>> nso.x = 123
 >>> vars(nso)
 {'x': 123}

Anyway, if you want to initialize some default name bindings in the form of class variables,
you can do that simply, even in the one-off one-liner, e.g.,

 >>> nso = type('',(),{'x':123, 'y':'wye'})()
 >>> nso.x, nso.y
 (123, 'wye')

Note that they are class attributes ("variables"), not instance attributes, though:

 >>> nso.x = 'instance attribute' # shadows class attr
 >>> nso.x
 'instance attribute'
 >>> del nso.x # but can be unshadowed
 >>> nso.x
 123

If you want to generate a cdict for class attributes by calling some function, you could, e.g.,

 >>> nso = type('',(),(lambda **kw:kw)(
 ...     x = 456,
 ...     y = 'wye',
 ...     etc = 'and so forth'
 ... ))()

Of course, that's a pretty silly substitute (other than the '' vs 'nso' class name) for

 >>> class nso(object):
 ...     x = 456
 ...     y = 'wye'
 ...     etc = 'and so forth'
 ...
 >>> nso = nso()

but it does show a function (lambda **kw:kw) being called to generate the cdict.
Checking results:

 >>> nso.x
 456
 >>> nso.x, nso.y, nso.etc
 (456, 'wye', 'and so forth')
 >>> vars(nso.__class__).keys()
 ['__dict__', '__module__', 'etc', 'y', 'x', '__weakref__', '__doc__']

BTW, I find it useful to use vars(foo).keys() rather than dir(foo) to avoid inherited stuff.

Of course, if you bind the class to a name instead of instantly ()'ing it, note

 >>> ClassAlias = type('ClassName',(),{})
 >>> ClassAlias
 <class '__main__.ClassName'>

doesn't match very well, and

 >>> ClassName = type('ClassName',(),{})
 >>> ClassName
 <class '__main__.ClassName'>

is a silly substitute for

 >>> class ClassName(object): pass
 ...
 >>> ClassName
 <class '__main__.ClassName'>

Even if you don't bind the name locally, it is bound to the instance
as inst.__class__.__name__, so it may be a good idea to call type with
a reasonable name as the first param, not ''.

Hm, got to rambling again ;-/

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From lamar_air at hotmail.com  Mon Jul 21 15:44:54 2003
From: lamar_air at hotmail.com (lamar_air)
Date: 21 Jul 2003 12:44:54 -0700
Subject: if information exists on form then use it in cgi
Message-ID: <2c6431ab.0307211144.4c2f3749@posting.google.com>

On my web form i have check boxes with the following code:

<td width="173"><input type="checkbox" name="C140" value="1.
'St.KittsNevis'">St. Kitts Nevis</td>

when the user submits the form my python cgi retreives each of the
values from the form with code like this for each:

    f=open('C:\My Documents\ABC\boxes', 'w')

    f.write('Boxes')
    f.write('\n')
    if form['C139'].value != '':
        f.write(form['C139'].value)
        f.write('\n')

    if form['C140'].value != '':
        f.write(form['C140'].value)
        f.write('\n')
    
    f.close()

the problem is if the user doesn't check off all the check boxes on
the form then the if form['C140'].value != '' code errors because
nothing is there.  How do i do this?

Here is the error:

The specified CGI application misbehaved by not returning a complete
set of HTTP headers. The headers it did return are:


Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "C:\Inetpub\wwwroot\Cgi-bin\Cities2.py", line 175, in ?
    if form['C139'].value != '':
  File "C:\Python22\lib\cgi.py", line 550, in __getitem__
    raise KeyError, key
KeyError: C139



From abcdebl2nonspammy at verizon.net  Wed Jul 30 01:35:02 2003
From: abcdebl2nonspammy at verizon.net (David Lees)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 05:35:02 GMT
Subject: Thank you developers for 2.3
Message-ID: <aOIVa.8149$yv1.7974@nwrddc02.gnilink.net>

Flawless install and it ran my very simple minded (try not to laugh) 
nested loop integer arithmetic benchmark twice as fast as 2.2.3
version 2.3      5.04 sec
version 2.2.3    9.77 sec

import time

def speedTest(N):
     t1 = time.time()
     k = 0
     for i in xrange(N):
         for j in xrange(N):
             k += (i+j)

     t2 = time.time()
     return t2-t1

print speedTest(3000)

david lees




From naren at trillium.com  Thu Jul 17 14:37:11 2003
From: naren at trillium.com (Narendra C. Tulpule)
Date: 17 Jul 2003 11:37:11 -0700
Subject: Recursion in compile()
References: <781faf41.0307161629.6295618b@posting.google.com> <mailman.1058409301.23691.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <781faf41.0307171037.142956f6@posting.google.com>

Steven Taschuk <staschuk at telusplanet.net> wrote in message news:<mailman.1058409301.23691.python-list at python.org>...
> Quoth Narendra C. Tulpule:
> >   is there any way to allow recusrion in compile()? Something like:
> > 
> > src_code = 'def fact(n):\n\tif n <= 1:\n\t\treturn 1\n\telse:' + \
> >            '\n\t\treturn n * fact(n-1)\n\nprint fact(12)\n'
> > cobj = compile(src_code, 'myfile', 'exec')
> > eval(cobj)
> 
> This works fine for me -- it prints 479001600 as expected, on both
> 2.2.2 and 2.3b1.  What is the problem you're seeing?

Sorry, you're right, it does work for me.
I was trying something like 
cobj = compile('eval(src_code)', ...)
eval(cobj)
And that complains about syntax error (because I am trying to define a
function within eval string?)



From sav at ulmen.mv.ru  Sat Jul 19 09:34:10 2003
From: sav at ulmen.mv.ru (Alexander Semenov)
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 17:34:10 +0400
Subject: __getitem__ and arguments
References: <10eb079f.0307190110.30deb5b9@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3f1948d6@post.ulj.menatepspb.com>

Hello, KanZen!

 ??>>>> a[1, 2, 3]
 K> 1

 K> For __getitem__() the arguments become a tuple. I can't seem to find
 K> this in the language spec. Can anybody explain this to me?

Python doesn't have multidimension arrays. It has only sequences and dicts
which consist from values indexed by keys. When you write a[1,2,3] python
always see a[key] where key=(1,2,3). Tuples created automaticly where
neccessary. Try "return 1, 2, 3" or "a,b,c = 1, 2, 3" statements.

With best regards, Alexander Semenov.





From postmaster at 127.0.0.1  Sat Jul 12 10:11:19 2003
From: postmaster at 127.0.0.1 (David McNab)
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 02:11:19 +1200
Subject: Any pure-python relational databases?
Message-ID: <pan.2003.07.12.14.11.19.428895@127.0.0.1>

Hi,

I've been looking for some way to operat a relational database on a 3rd
party web server.

The server runs Python 1.5.2, and does not have the MySQL-python module,
(nor does it have libmysqlclient), which means I can't just talk to MySQL.

The web host is my client's choice, not mine, and there's very little
prospect of getting them to upgrade their python or install mysql-python.

Is there:

1) Any pure-python interface to MySQL? or

2) Any kind of relational DBMS written in pure python that'll run on
1.5.2?

All help appreciated.

Cheers
David




From rimbalaya at yahoo.com  Tue Jul  1 13:10:26 2003
From: rimbalaya at yahoo.com (Rim)
Date: 1 Jul 2003 10:10:26 -0700
Subject: Suggesting for overloading the assign operator
References: <6f03c4a5.0306301931.3f15fbb7@posting.google.com> <2259b0e2.0307010328.1e1b4a04@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <6f03c4a5.0307010910.35ca3158@posting.google.com>

mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato) wrote in message news:<2259b0e2.0307010328.1e1b4a04 at posting.google.com>...
> rimbalaya at yahoo.com (Rim) wrote in message news:<6f03c4a5.0306301931.3f15fbb7 at posting.google.com>...
> > Hi,
> > 
> > I have been thinking about how to overload the assign operation '='.
> 
> Notice that you can always override __setattr__ ...

Thanks. I have noticed that already, but it does not give me what I
want. What do you think about providing a statement to assign values
without assigning type?

'=' statement assigns value and type
':=' statement assigns value ony

Rim



From dholth at fastmail.fm  Mon Jul 14 18:22:05 2003
From: dholth at fastmail.fm (Daniel Holth)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 22:22:05 GMT
Subject: Embedding Python in a plugin
Message-ID: <h2GQa.1856$Mc.172386@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>

Hello!  I am trying to embed Python into an xmms plugin using
Debian/unstable/i386, gcc 3.3.1 and Python 2.2.3+.  The plugin is a shared
library loaded by xmms.  The plugin is dynamically linked with the python
library.

Running scripts works but when I try to import python extensions I get these
kinds of errors:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<string>", line 1, in ?
  File "/home/dholth/lib/python2.2/site-packages/xmmspy.py", line 12, in ?
    import time
ImportError: /usr/lib/python2.2/lib-dynload/time.so: undefined symbol:
PyExc_IOError

I'm using all the compiler options I can find!

/bin/sh ./libtool --mode=link gcc -Wall -I/usr/include/xmms
-I/usr/include/gtk-1.2 -I/usr/include/glib-1.2 -I/usr/lib/glib/include -g
-O2 -I/usr/include/python2.2 -I/usr/include/glib-1.2
-I/usr/include/python2.2 -g -O2 -I/usr/include/python2.2   -o libxmmspy.la
-rpath /usr/lib/xmms/General -module -avoid-version -Xlinker
-export-dynamic xmmspy.lo  -lstdc++ -lpython2.2 -L/usr/lib -L/usr/X11R6/lib
-lgtk -lgdk -rdynamic -lgmodule -lglib -ldl -lXi -lXext -lX11 -lm -lxmms

... including "-Xlinker -export-dynamic" as suggested by distutils.

How do I embed Python in an application where the main application has no
knowledge of Python, only the dynamically loaded plugin does?  Which
programs do this already?

Thanks a heap,

Daniel Holth
http://dingoskidneys.com/



From intentionally at blank.co.uk  Wed Jul 16 16:02:21 2003
From: intentionally at blank.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 21:02:21 +0100
Subject: anything like C++ references?
References: <mailman.1058225603.22981.python-list@python.org> <2a07hvo1ft7q7gedt4hq16g518iom905lu@4ax.com> <mailman.1058333068.12050.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <rkbbhvckjv6hotsns9upcift64oqp4qtoc@4ax.com>

On 16 Jul 2003 07:24:30 +0200, Heiko Wundram <heikowu at ceosg.de> wrote:

>If you encapsulate your data correctly (have classes handle data that
>belongs together, and not pass it round in parts), everything works out
>great, at least for me. And I guess there's nothing more important than
>thinking about proper data-encapsulation before starting a project.

The pointer thing was raised in the context of a larger discussion. It
*would* be necessary if another change was made (don't worry, it won't
happen).




From bogal2 at comcast.net  Tue Jul 15 14:25:54 2003
From: bogal2 at comcast.net (BogAl)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 13:25:54 -0500
Subject: Can't install csv parser
References: <MPG.197b80c54e88b1489896a6@news.in.comcast.giganews.com> <3f11ba56$0$6532$afc38c87@sisyphus.news.be.easynet.net> <MPG.197b8c26ad33253e9896a7@news.in.comcast.giganews.com> <c76ff6fc.0307141603.4810bba0@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <MPG.197e113efa2e81339896aa@news.in.comcast.giganews.com>

Thanks for the reply, John....
 
> I think not; path should contain a list of *directories*, not *files*
> -- Windows is silently ignoring the non-existence of directories
> called "C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM\python22.dll" etc.

For some reason, I misunderstood that; glad you cleared that up for me!
 
> Rephrasing Bernard's question: do you have those 3 files in
> directories that are listed in your system path?
 
OK, I do now.

> After a normal Python installation, you would expect to have
> c:\Python22 in your path, and Python22.dll in that directory.

python22.dll ended up in C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM instead; don't know why.
C:\PYTHON22 never ended up in the PATH.

The csv module's still not working; I'll respond to your reply in the 
other subthread.

BogAl 



From paulpaterson at users.sourceforge.net  Sun Jul 27 00:51:11 2003
From: paulpaterson at users.sourceforge.net (Paul Paterson)
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 04:51:11 GMT
Subject: How safe is modifying locals()?
In-Reply-To: <bfutsf$flc$0@216.39.172.122>
References: <BDcUa.100193$XV.6037947@twister.austin.rr.com>	 <MvCdnTkcoJNP_7yiXTWJjw@comcast.com>	 <WMdUa.100343$XV.6044659@twister.austin.rr.com> <mailman.1059173799.17228.python-list@python.org> <ZqlUa.102243$XV.6096809@twister.austin.rr.com> <bfttd5$gtc$1@online.de> <Y_wUa.103853$XV.6162947@twister.austin.rr.com> <bfutsf$flc$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <3TIUa.107401$XV.6252339@twister.austin.rr.com>

Bengt Richter wrote:

> On Sat, 26 Jul 2003 15:20:24 GMT, Paul Paterson <paulpaterson at users.sourceforge.net> wrote:
> 
> 
>>Stefan Schwarzer wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Hi Paul
>>>
>>>Paul Paterson wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>This is a very interesting (and Pythonic) approach, thanks for 
>>>>suggesting it! This is certainly what I would try to do if I were 
>>>>writing the code from scratch. It may be possible to construct a 
>>>>"namespace" type object which gets passed to the function.
>>>
>>>
>>>I think the most common way to make a namespace in Python is
>>
>><snip nice example of namespace class>
>>
>>Thanks, the bare namespace class is essentially what I am going to try.
>>
>>
>>>Of course, if you have a better name for your container, that's even
>>>better. Think of Ian's Point example. :-)
>>
>>I think you may have missed my original post; I am writing a generic VB 
>>to Python converter so generating good names based on code intent would 
>>be pretty tough! Perhaps in v2.0 ;)
>>
>>My current thinking is (for the orignal example of changing one 
>>variable, 'y' but not another, 'x'),
>>
>>class Namespace: pas
>>
>># ByVal arguments passed directly, ByRef via a namespace
>>def change(x, byrefs):
>>    x = x + 1
>>    byrefs.y = byrefs.y + 1
>>
>>ns = Namespace() # The local namespace
>>ns.x = 0
>>ns.y = 0
>>change(ns.x, ns)
>># Now ns.x = 0, ns.y = 1
>>
> 
> This looks readable, to me ;-)
> 
> But it is not pointer semantics, since you have to know the name for y inside change.

For my application this is always the case ... but sometimes treating 
the problem as harder than it really is leads to a solution that is 
better than you would get otherwise!

> It will be nice and fast if you can use the above, but if not, in some cases, class NSP
> below will let you use it just like Namespace above, though with pointer features if
> you need them.
> 
> I just wanted to throw in here that the namespace approach will also let you
> use properties (there's a handy builtin to create them from accessor methods,
> or you can instantiate them from your own descriptor classes) as your
> byrefs "variables" if you like.
> 
> You just have to mane the NameSpace class inherit from object, to make it
> a new-style class. Then you can add properties either right in the class definition
> or later by setting class attributes , e.g.,

<snip interesting development of the property approach>

> A namespace for variables also gives you the potential to define methods for the name space
> itself. Here is an example with a name space that has an internal pointer class and lets
> you create "pointers" to the "variables" in the namespace, using ns[vname] syntax, which
> goes to the __getitem__ method of the class to make a "pointer" (__slots__ hopefully just
> makes pointer instances better optimized):
> 
>  >>> class NSP(object):
>  ...     """NSP defines name space with "pointer" creation via p = ns[vname]"""
>  ...     class Ptr(object):
>  ...         """Ptr instance holds ns ref and vname for access to ns.vname"""
>  ...         __slots__ = 'ns', 'vname'
>  ...         def __init__(self, ns, vname): self.ns=ns; self.vname=vname
>  ...         def __getitem__(self, i):
>  ...             """typical: x=p[:]"""
>  ...             return getattr(self.ns, self.vname)
>  ...         def __setitem__(self, i, v):
>  ...             """Typical: p[:] = x"""
>  ...             setattr(self.ns, self.vname, v)
>  ...         def __delitem__(self, i):
>  ...             """Typical: del p[:] # deletes what's pointed to"""
>  ...             delattr(self.ns, self.vname)
>  ...     def __getitem__(self, name):
>  ...         """Make "pointer." Typical: p2x = ns['x']; p2x[:] => ns.x"""
>  ...         return self.Ptr(self, name)
>  ...
>  >>> ns = NSP()
>  >>> ns.x = 123
>  >>> ns.y = 456
>  >>> def change(x, py):
>  ...     x = 'new x?'
>  ...     py[:] = 'new via py[:]'
>  ...
>  >>> ns.x
>  123
>  >>> ns.y
>  456
>  >>> change(ns.x, ns['y']) # on the fly &y
>  >>> ns.x
>  123
>  >>> ns.y
>  'new via py[:]'
>  >>>

To my eye, the [:] or [0] spelling of this makes the code look more 
complex than necessary, but I think you are on to something because if 
you spell it,

def change(x, y):
    x = 'new x'
    y.update('new y')

with the relevant changes to the Ptr class then it could certainly grow 
on me. The things I like are,

- no new variable names in the 'change' function so it looks similar to 
the original code
- the mechanism for propogating changes to the caller scope is explicit
- 'y' can be passed on to another function if needed and things are 
still clear

eg,

def change(x, y):
     x = 'new x'
     change2(y)

def change2(y):
     y.update('deep change in y')

To do this using the original namespace approach gets a little tricky 
because you have to merge the namespaces as you go. The pointer idea 
flattens that structure.

<snip stuff about deleting a pointer>


> I'm not necessarily recommending any of the above, but I thought it might give you some ideas..
> There is definitely a performance hit in px[:] (or better, px[0]) vs byref.x to consider.
> 
> Anyway, I thought properties and descriptors might also come in handy somewhere in your quest ;-)

This is certainly food for thought. My main criteria is this: I don't 
want to translate clearly written code in an ugly language (VB) into 
ugly code in a clear language (Python). If this happens I might as well 
pack up and go home!

So I will trade speed for clarity almost always because someone can 
always optimize clear code later.

Thanks for these thoughts and the time it took to post them, they really 
made me think! (I mean that in a good way, of course ;) )

Paul




From buzzard at urubu.freeserve.co.uk  Mon Jul 14 21:28:09 2003
From: buzzard at urubu.freeserve.co.uk (Duncan Smith)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 02:28:09 +0100
Subject: bug in my code?
Message-ID: <bevl84$880$1@news7.svr.pol.co.uk>

Greetings.  I am struggling to track down what I presume is a bug in my
code.  The trouble is that it only raises its head occasionally.  I have
managed to prune the code to the following:

shutTest.py
--------------------------------------------------------
import cPickle

def test2(iterations):
    for i in range(iterations):
        try:
            f = file('C:\\Python22\\(2, 2, 2, 3, 4).shu', 'r')
            try:
                dependencies, nodes = cPickle.load(f)
            finally:
                f.close()
        except IOError:
            pass
----------------------------------------------------------------

Calling the function with a suitable argument (say, 100) doesn't usually
pose a problem.  The file is opened OK and the data unpickled.  But
occasionally (or usually if I call the function with 1000 as argument) I get
the all too common, on Windows,

'The instruction at {some memory address} referenced memory at {some other
(and on one occasion the same) memory address}.  The memory could not be
"read".'

I just tried to run the function in the interactive window and got the
following traceback.

Traceback (most recent call last):
 File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
 File "shutTest.py", line 9, in test2
  dependencies, nodes = cPickle.load(f)
cPickle.UnpicklingError: invalid load key, 'a'.

where the 'a' has a grave accent over it.

I'm guessing that the previous crashes have corrupted the file?  Is there
any reason why my code should have caused the crashes, or is this just
Windows 2000?  The crashes don't seem to be totally random as they always
occur in this section of code.  BTW I am using Python 2.2.2, and I had the
crashes in PythonWin, IDLE and the interactive window.  TIA.

Duncan










From skip at pobox.com  Sun Jul 27 10:52:59 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 09:52:59 -0500
Subject: code coverage tool with emacs integration?
In-Reply-To: <87u198ree4.fsf@pobox.com>
References: <87u198ree4.fsf@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <16163.59211.574952.985573@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    John> Anybody know of one?

    John> Actually, I have a feeling that emacs understands a standard
    John> format for errors, which would make it really easy to implement
    John> this by having the coverage tool print results in that format --
    John> anybody know where to find the details?

compilation-error-regexp-alist.  The simplest format to remember is

    filename:linenumber:message

I'm not sure what you're after though.  Code coverage tools generally emit
annotated listings, not compiler-like output.  What would you like it to do,
emit file:line:msg info for the start of each run of lines which weren't
covered?  How would you get any context showing you what lines in the region
had been executed at least once?

Skip




From florian.proff.schulze at gmx.net  Thu Jul 17 18:53:29 2003
From: florian.proff.schulze at gmx.net (Florian Schulze)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 00:53:29 +0200
Subject: A challenge to the ASCII proponents.
References: <mailman.1058278343.23104.python-list@python.org> <bf167a$pvt$1@panix2.panix.com> <ufzl7rdno.fsf@online.no> <3F142A58.80426AA4@hotmail.com> <2259b0e2.0307161620.4a9353f1@posting.google.com> <Xns93BB246FDDBCFJanC@213.118.75.80> <3F168011.3AEB3EFC@hotmail.com> <3F172442.2040907@v.loewis.de>
Message-ID: <oprsg8jf1xttxc4i@news.t-online.de>

On Fri, 18 Jul 2003 00:33:38 +0200, Martin v. Loewis <martin at v.loewis.de> 
wrote:

> So what do you think about this message?:
>
> ????????
>
> Look Ma, no markup. And not every character uses two bytes, either.
> And I can use Umlauts (???) and Arabic (???.????) if I want to.
>
> I don't know for whom this renders well, but I guess MSIE5+, NS6+
> and Mozilla 1+ are good candidates - without the need for saving
> things into files.

And Opera (7.11). I would also like to know what's the trick.

Florian



From gtewalt at earthlink.net  Wed Jul  2 10:42:51 2003
From: gtewalt at earthlink.net (gt)
Date: 2 Jul 2003 07:42:51 -0700
Subject: Newbie advice for string fromatting
Message-ID: <f9b7c11d.0307020642.7231cd82@posting.google.com>

O.k., four days into playing with python
and I have a little problem that I would like 
to get some feedback on.
( as far as the best way to go about it )

Basically, just a little Mad-Libs type script.

Something like:

libs = ["adverb", "noun", "verb", "tool"]
words = {a:j, n:j, v:j, t:j}
for x in libs:
       print "Enter a ", x, ": ",
       words[j] = raw_input()
print "The %s %s %s with a %s." % (a, n, v, t)

What is the most efficient way to do something like this?



From justinjohnson at fastmail.fm  Wed Jul  9 08:36:28 2003
From: justinjohnson at fastmail.fm (Justin Johnson)
Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 06:36:28 -0600
Subject: process.py problems
In-Reply-To: <20030709123005.C0B58374AF@www.fastmail.fm>
References: <20030708153117.127C0326C0@www.fastmail.fm> <20030708094057.C9520@ActiveState.com> <20030708210829.B3BBE3886D@www.fastmail.fm> <20030708170131.C13603@ActiveState.com> <20030709123005.C0B58374AF@www.fastmail.fm>
Message-ID: <20030709123628.66ACA3771B@www.fastmail.fm>

Never mind the part about commands hanging....  that appears to be
related to something else in my code.  I think your process stuff is
working fine for .exe commands.  :-)

So just the dir command is failing now.

On Wed, 09 Jul 2003 06:30:05 -0600, "Justin Johnson"
<justinjohnson at fastmail.fm> said:
> After replacing my process.py I still get an error with the dir command
> (see below).
> 
> I'm getting some wierd results with normal .exe commands though. 
> Commands that don't have much output come back just fine, but commands
> that have more output, even if they don't take long to run necessarily,
> seem to get stuck and just hang, never returning.
> 
> E:\ccase\python\uhg\uht>python
> ActivePython 2.2.2 Build 224 (ActiveState Corp.) based on
> Python 2.2.2 (#37, Nov 26 2002, 10:24:37) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> >>> import process
> >>> p = process.ProcessOpen("dir")
> process: info:ProcessOpen.__init__(cmd='dir', mode='t', cwd=None,
> env=None)
> process.res: info:[11054544] ProcessOpen._start(): create child stdin:
> <_FileWra
> pper: file:None fd:3 os_handle:<PyHANDLE object at 0x00A8ACA4>>
> process.res: info:[11054544] ProcessOpen._start(): create child stdout:
> <_FileWr
> apper: file:None fd:4 os_handle:<PyHANDLE object at 0x00A8D6B4>>
> process.res: info:[11054544] ProcessOpen._start(): create child stderr:
> <_FileWr
> apper: file:None fd:5 os_handle:<PyHANDLE object at 0x00A8D694>>
> process: debug:_whichFirstArg: first='dir', rest=''
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
>   File "process.py", line 1118, in __init__
>     self._startOnWindows()
>   File "process.py", line 1289, in _startOnWindows
>     cmd = _fixupCommand(cmd, self._env)
>   File "process.py", line 516, in _fixupCommand
>     cmd = _whichFirstArg(cmd, env)
>   File "process.py", line 325, in _whichFirstArg
>     candidate = which.which(first)
>   File "which.py", line 251, in which
>     raise WhichError("Could not find '%s' on the path." % command)
> which.WhichError: Could not find 'dir' on the path.
> >>>
> 
> >>> p = process.ProcessOpen("cleartool lsvob -l")
> process: info:ProcessOpen.__init__(cmd='cleartool lsvob -l', mode='t',
> cwd=None,
>  env=None)
> process.res: info:[18469440] ProcessOpen._start(): create child stdin:
> <_FileWra
> pper: file:None fd:3 os_handle:<PyHANDLE object at 0x01198B44>>
> process.res: info:[18469440] ProcessOpen._start(): create child stdout:
> <_FileWr
> apper: file:None fd:4 os_handle:<PyHANDLE object at 0x0119CA74>>
> process.res: info:[18469440] ProcessOpen._start(): create child stderr:
> <_FileWr
> apper: file:None fd:5 os_handle:<PyHANDLE object at 0x0119A9E4>>
> process: debug:_whichFirstArg: first='cleartool', rest='lsvob -l'
> process: debug:_SaferCreateProcess(appName=None,
>                     cmd='"C:\\Program
>                     Files\\Rational\\ClearCase\\bin\\cleartool
> .EXE" lsvob -l',
>                     env=None,
>                     cwd=None)
>     os.getcwd(): 'E:\\ccase\\python\\uhg\\uht'
> 
> process: info:_registerprocess(process=<process.ProcessOpen instance at
> 0x0119D2
> 40>)
> ***** It doesn't return here *****
> 
> 
> On Tue, 8 Jul 2003 17:01:32 -0700, "Trent Mick" <trentm at ActiveState.com>
> said:
> > 
> > Yup, process.py is expected a which.py <1.0. Crappy. I need to put up a
> > new process.py. To work around in it in your current build you need to
> > changes process.py's usages of which.which() to expect a single hit
> > instead of a list of a all hits. In other words, which.which() changed
> > from:
> >     >>> which.which("python")
> >     ["C:\\Python22\\python.exe", "C:\\Python21\\python.exe", ...]
> > to:
> >     >>> which.which("python")
> >     "C:\\Python22\\python.exe"
> > 
> > This is a little bit of a pain to do though. I have attached an untested
> > process.py that should have this fixed. I apologize for the informalness
> > of this. I'll try to get a new process.py version up on
> > <starship.python.net/~tmick> when I get a chance.
> > 
> > Cheers,
> > Trent
> > 
> > 
> > [Justin Johnson wrote]
> > > Thanks for the reply!
> > > 
> > > which 1.0.2
> > > 
> > > Here's the log output with the dir command
> > > -----------------------
> > > process.res: info:[18392288] ProcessOpen._start(): create child stdin:
> > > <_FileWra
> > > pper: file:None fd:3 os_handle:<PyHANDLE object at 0x0118C694>>
> > > process.res: info:[18392288] ProcessOpen._start(): create child stdout:
> > > <_FileWr
> > > apper: file:None fd:4 os_handle:<PyHANDLE object at 0x0118C674>>
> > > process.res: info:[18392288] ProcessOpen._start(): create child stderr:
> > > <_FileWr
> > > apper: file:None fd:5 os_handle:<PyHANDLE object at 0x0118C654>>
> > > process.res: info:[18392288] ProcessOpen.__del__()
> > > process: info:[18392288] ProcessOpen.close()
> > > process: info:[18392288] ProcessOpen: closing stdin (<_FileWrapper:
> > > file:None fd
> > > :3 os_handle:<PyHANDLE object at 0x0118C694>>).
> > > process: debug:[18400496] _FileWrapper.close()
> > > process: debug:[18400496] _FileWrapper.close: close handle
> > > process: debug:[18400496] _FileWrapper.close: closing handle raised
> > > process: debug:[18400496] _FileWrapper.close: done closing handle
> > > process: info:[18392288] ProcessOpen: closing stdout (<_FileWrapper:
> > > file:None f
> > > d:4 os_handle:<PyHANDLE object at 0x0118C674>>).
> > > process: debug:[18400720] _FileWrapper.close()
> > > process: debug:[18400720] _FileWrapper.close: close handle
> > > process: debug:[18400720] _FileWrapper.close: closing handle raised
> > > process: debug:[18400720] _FileWrapper.close: done closing handle
> > > process: info:[18392288] ProcessOpen: closing stderr (<_FileWrapper:
> > > file:None f
> > > d:5 os_handle:<PyHANDLE object at 0x0118C654>>).
> > > process: debug:[18403024] _FileWrapper.close()
> > > process: debug:[18403024] _FileWrapper.close: close handle
> > > process: debug:[18403024] _FileWrapper.close: closing handle raised
> > > process: debug:[18403024] _FileWrapper.close: done closing handle
> > > process: debug:[18400720] _FileWrapper.close()
> > > process: debug:[18400496] _FileWrapper.close()
> > > process: debug:[18403024] _FileWrapper.close()
> > > ----------------
> > > 
> > > I also get the following results running commands that are in my path...
> > > ------------------
> > > g`"apper: file:None fd:5 os_handle:<PyHANDLE object at 0x011D30A4>>
> > > process: debug:_SaferCreateProcess(appName=None,
> > >                     cmd='C lsview -s',
> > >                     env=None,
> > >                     cwd=None)
> > >     os.getcwd(): 'E:\\ccase\\python\\uhg\\uht'
> > > 
> > > process.res: info:[18680944] ProcessOpen.__del__()
> > > process: info:[18680944] ProcessOpen.close()
> > > process: info:[18680944] ProcessOpen: closing stdin (<_FileWrapper:
> > > file:None fd
> > > :3 os_handle:<PyHANDLE object at 0x011D4744>>).
> > > process: debug:[18696880] _FileWrapper.close()
> > > process: debug:[18696880] _FileWrapper.close: close handle
> > > process: debug:[18696880] _FileWrapper.close: closing handle raised
> > > process: debug:[18696880] _FileWrapper.close: done closing handle
> > > process: info:[18680944] ProcessOpen: closing stdout (<_FileWrapper:
> > > file:None f
> > > d:4 os_handle:<PyHANDLE object at 0x011D47C4>>).
> > > process: debug:[18696832] _FileWrapper.close()
> > > process: debug:[18696832] _FileWrapper.close: close handle
> > > process: debug:[18696832] _FileWrapper.close: closing handle raised
> > > process: debug:[18696832] _FileWrapper.close: done closing handle
> > > process: info:[18680944] ProcessOpen: closing stderr (<_FileWrapper:
> > > file:None f
> > > d:5 os_handle:<PyHANDLE object at 0x011D30A4>>).
> > > process: debug:[18699984] _FileWrapper.close()
> > > process: debug:[18699984] _FileWrapper.close: close handle
> > > process: debug:[18699984] _FileWrapper.close: closing handle raised
> > > process: debug:[18699984] _FileWrapper.close: done closing handle
> > > process: debug:[18696832] _FileWrapper.close()
> > > process: debug:[18696880] _FileWrapper.close()
> > > process: debug:[18699984] _FileWrapper.close()
> > > ---------
> > > 
> > > 
> > 
> > -- 
> > Trent Mick
> > TrentM at ActiveState.com
> 
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 




From http  Mon Jul 21 11:52:10 2003
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 21 Jul 2003 08:52:10 -0700
Subject: "Pure Python" MySQL module like Net::MySQL
References: <bfddmi$7nk$1@eeyore.INS.cwru.edu> <mailman.1058718091.1276.python-list@python.org> <7xk7advy4c.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <87fzl0q82k.fsf@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <7xy8yr3mj9.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee) writes:
> In any case, MySQL *isn't* in the same league as Oracle or PostgreSQL,
> is it?

You and I might not think so, but MySQL Corp's marketroids like to say
that it is.  Therefore you'd think they'd document the wire protocol.
Although, it's possible that Oracle and PostgreSQL also don't document
their own protocols.  But that would just mean Oracle and PostgreSQL
aren't really high-class databases either ;-).



From ulope at gmx.de  Tue Jul  8 17:57:29 2003
From: ulope at gmx.de (Ulrich Petri)
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 23:57:29 +0200
Subject: doublequotes in regexp 1.5.2 - zope/externalmethod
References: <bed11r$ssr$05$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <befeob$4frgb$1@ID-67890.news.dfncis.de>

"Florian Konnertz" <florian.konnertz at web.de> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:bed11r$ssr$05$1 at news.t-online.com...
> Hi,
>
> I have to do a little script for an old zope website running on
> python1.5.2 and have a regexp problem.
>
> (for those who know zope: I have to change all stx links in a dtml doc
> to html which is not done for any reason. It's an old zope (2.3.2) :(
> python is 1.5.2  I tried with string.find, but i get a "string object
> has no atribute 'find'" error - find is documented for python-1.5.2 :-/
> So i guesses i have to use an External Method where i can use re.)
>
In python 1.5.2 you have to use:

import string

s="blah pattern blah"
pos = string.find(s, "pattern")


for Zope this would be:
<dtml-var "_.string.find(REQUEST['somevar'], 'somepattern')">

HTH

Ciao Ulrich





From bokr at oz.net  Wed Jul  2 05:04:13 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 2 Jul 2003 09:04:13 GMT
Subject: Howto: extract a 'column' from a list of lists into a new list?
References: <vg1mbarhe86d2d@corp.supernews.com> <3f013fb1$0$97259$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk> <bdspmf$leq$0@216.39.172.122> <mailman.1057108144.14929.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bdu76d$1fa$0@216.39.172.122>

On Tue, 01 Jul 2003 20:07:58 -0500, John Hunter <jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu> wrote:

>>>>>> "Bengt" == Bengt Richter <bokr at oz.net> writes:
>
>    >>>> zip(*fields)
>
>That is amazingly helpful.  I've often needed to transpose a 2d list,
>(mainly to get a "column" from an SQL query of a list of rows) and
>this is just the trick.
>
>I recently wrote a function to "deal" out a list of MySQLdb results,
>where each field was a numeric type, and wanted to fill numeric arrays
>with each column of results
>
>With your trick, eg, for a list of results from three numeric fields,
>I just have to do:
>
>  a1, a2, a3 =  map(array, zip(*results))
>
That looks neat. But it isn't really "my" trick (whatever that means ;-).
Anyway, IIRC, I learned it from a Martellibot post some time back ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Jul 15 10:18:59 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 10:18:59 -0400
Subject: Sio serial module install problem with ActiveState
References: <pan.2003.07.14.21.40.42.609932@zexcite.zcom> <vh6t85fn1njm94@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <3F140D53.DC7677B3@engcorp.com>

Gary Richardson wrote:
> 
> [snip]
> 
> > BTW, this serial printer is apparently pretty much a 'dump
> > and go' type device - the only thing the printer seems to
> > be capable of returning is a 4-byte error code after a special
> > error report command is sent to the printer - other than that,
> > all of the data and commands seem to move downstream only,
> > with no return from the printer expected. Is Sio overkill for
> > this, i.e. is there some incredibly simple "open a serial port
> > under Win32 for write only" command I'm missing in the basic
> > Python stuff?

> 
> I've written a pretty simple serial I/O module that will do what you want.
> Email me directly if you would like a copy.

The benefit of the PySerial library is that it's cross-platform,
available without emailing you, fully documented, and most
important of all: if you find problems, you can fix them and
everyone else benefits.

Maybe you can contribute those parts of your own library which
are better than PySerial to the PySerial project and we can avoid
a proliferation of serial libraries in Python.

Or put the file on a web page somewhere and we can all poke away
at it, learn from it, and maybe incorporate the best parts into
PySerial.

-Peter



From bokr at oz.net  Mon Jul 28 11:06:25 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 28 Jul 2003 15:06:25 GMT
Subject: CGI "download" prompt?
References: <77dd287a.0307240632.40c6c309@posting.google.com> <3f205f06$0$49115$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl> <77dd287a.0307250619.7c2ec441@posting.google.com> <mailman.1059144400.10484.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bg3e5h$pkj$0@216.39.172.122>

On Fri, 25 Jul 2003 16:45:19 +0200, =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?= <gh at ghaering.de> wrote:

>Daniel Orner wrote:
>>>Try setting the Content-Type: header to something other than text/html,
>>>such as:   application/octet-stream [...]
>
>Erhm. Let's suppose you want to send an RTF file and have the browser 
>pop up a save dialog with a certain filename preconfigured:
>
>Then send these headers:
>
>Content-Type: application/rtf
>Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=mydocument.rtf
>

I wonder if an ordinary HTML page with a link to a second HTML page
could be changed to have a javascript link in the first that would effectively
prefix Content-Disposition on the second page without changing the latter.

Wondering if you'd tried it, and found a way that avoids downloading into
an array before the save-as dialog comes up (I am just speculating that might
be part of one way it could be done).

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From alan.gauld at btinternet.com  Tue Jul 22 02:49:15 2003
From: alan.gauld at btinternet.com (Alan Gauld)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 06:49:15 GMT
Subject: good python book
References: <3f1cbbda_6@news.athenanews.com>
Message-ID: <3f1cdce3.516224491@news.blueyonder.co.uk>

On 22 Jul 2003 00:21:46 -0400, anonymous at coolgroups.com wrote:

> i'm looking to start learning python.  could someone 
> recommend a good beginner's book for me?

Depends. Are you new to programming or just new to the Python
language?

If the latter you should just use the official tutor that comes
with Python and save your money for one of the more advanced
books and/or references.

If you are a complete beginner there are lots of online tutors
but only a couple of books. 

1) Ivan Van Lanningham's "Teach Yourself Python in 24 Hours"
2) The Deitel's "Python How to Program"
2) My "Learn to Program using Python"

The focus of each is slightly different.

Check out the newbies page on the Python web site for more info.
I'd recommend trying a web tutor first then buying something like
Learning Python or Core Python...

HTH,

Alan G


Author of the Learn to Program website
http://www.freenetpages.co.uk/hp/alan.gauld



From peter at engcorp.com  Wed Jul 23 08:59:52 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 08:59:52 -0400
Subject: [OT] RE: Possible use of Python for a voting machine demo project 
 --        your feedback requested
References: <1ED4ECF91CDED24C8D012BCF2B034F13026F8E3D@its-xchg4.massey.ac.nz>        <1ED4ECF91CDED24C8D012BCF2B034F130212AB7C@its-xchg4.massey.ac.nz> <mailman.1058929835.27268.python-list@python.org> <bflct6$q9h$1@slb3.atl.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <3F1E86C8.1631855C@engcorp.com>

Andrew Dalke wrote:
> 
> Skip Montanaro:
> > Stranger things have happened here...
> 
> For example, here in New Mexico, in Southwest US, if there is a tie in
> an election then it's broken by a game of chance, like poker or dice.
> Every few years there's a tie for a local election which is resolved this
> way.
> 
> Were electronic voting pushed even more, would that mean we
> would end up resolving it with video poker?  I hope not.  There's
> something visceral about the two candidates, meeting in front of
> the county courthouse, at noon, mumuring "draw", and playing a
> game of  Hi-Low.                ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
                                  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
"Draw", in reference to the aforementioned tie vote, of course.  ;-)



From postmaster at 127.0.0.1  Wed Jul 16 08:46:05 2003
From: postmaster at 127.0.0.1 (David McNab)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 00:46:05 +1200
Subject: tkinter
References: <3114992.1058316065@dbforums.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2003.07.16.12.46.05.283759@127.0.0.1>

On Wed, 16 Jul 2003 00:41:05 +0000, sprmn paused, took a deep breath, then
came out with:

> 
> does anyone know of any sites with good tutorials on tkinter on them?

http://www.astro.washington.edu/owen/TkinterSummary.html

http://www.pythonware.com/library/tkinter/introduction/index.htm

http://www.astro.washington.edu/owen/ROTKFolklore.html

On the strength of the above 3 links, I switched from wxWindows to
tkInter.

In contrast with a lot of Tkinter doco which pushes you into learning Tk,
these pages explain Tkinter in a very pythonic manner and make it very
accessible.

Enjoy!





From ebolonev at rol.ru  Tue Jul  1 11:27:02 2003
From: ebolonev at rol.ru (Egor Bolonev)
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 02:27:02 +1100
Subject: remove special characters from line
References: <3f01a27d$0$43847$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net>
Message-ID: <bds98v$hun$1@news.rol.ru>

Hello, Chris!
You wrote  on Tue, 1 Jul 2003 10:03:37 -0500:

 CR> If I have a line like this

 CR> ?blah blah blah blah blah

 CR> I know I could do a slice like this [1:] to pull everything but the
 CR> special character, but what if I have several lines in a file.
 CR> I am not sure how I would detect a special character like that.  I
 CR> would just like to pull everything from those lines (and the special
 CR> character always appears as the first character, but not on every line)
 CR> except for the special characters.
 CR> I hope I have enough detail for someone to help me.

 CR> Thanks in advance,

I didn't get what you're talkink about.

With best regards, Egor Bolonev.  E-mail: ebolonev at rol.ru [ru eo en]




From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Wed Jul 30 18:40:30 2003
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 30 Jul 2003 18:40:30 -0400
Subject: RELEASED Python 2.3 (final)
References: <mailman.1059523523.23534.python-list@python.org> <3f27bacd$0$49113$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl> <c76ff6fc.0307301323.62f3ccd6@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bg9hgu$k31$1@panix2.panix.com>

In article <c76ff6fc.0307301323.62f3ccd6 at posting.google.com>,
John Machin <sjmachin at lexicon.net> wrote:
>
>So ... could we please change that to "much kudos"?

Nope.  Kudos is a mass noun, but it's a discrete mass noun.  So you need
to say "many kudos".  This bit of pedantry is brought to you by "much
kudo about nothing".
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

This is Python.  We don't care much about theory, except where it intersects 
with useful practice.  --Aahz



From dlarnold at west.com  Wed Jul 16 16:02:15 2003
From: dlarnold at west.com (Don Arnold)
Date: 16 Jul 2003 13:02:15 -0700
Subject: <> and !=
References: <3F154B63.3060503@hotmail.com> <3F154BBD.2060304@hotmail.com> <3jlahv8o1fcu2j0oij2p31c32nftnb3er8@4ax.com> <3F155B6D.8000205@hotmail.com> <Xns93BA9BB2977B8duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <609dd410.0307161202.32e47c3e@posting.google.com>

Duncan Booth <duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk> wrote in message news:<Xns93BA9BB2977B8duncanrcpcouk at 127.0.0.1>...
> hokiegal99 <hokiegal99 at hotmail.com> wrote in 
> news:3F155B6D.8000205 at hotmail.com:
> 
> > Thank you, that is what I thought. What's the reason for having two 
> > symbols mean the same thing?
> > 
> Originally Python only had '<>' for the not-equal comparison. Version 0.9.3 
> added a bunch of C like syntax, such as C's shifting and masking operators. 
> It also added C style '==' and '!=' comparison operators. The original '<>' 
> remains valid for backwards compatibility.

Out of curiosity, what was the original operator for the equality comparison?



From Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org  Fri Jul 25 09:34:01 2003
From: Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org (Scott David Daniels)
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 06:34:01 -0700
Subject: possible error in socketmodule / asyncore on win32
In-Reply-To: <U8XTa.56405$Df6.54141@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk>
References: <U8XTa.56405$Df6.54141@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk>
Message-ID: <3f2131ca$1@nntp0.pdx.net>

Garth wrote:

... What looks at first glance like a good bug report....
> 
> Not really sure where to report this so I'm posting here.
> 
> This is all against 2.3c1
> 
> (Cheers to all for a wicked language.)
> 
> Garth
> 

The way to help out is to go through the hassle of filing a
bug report on SourceForge:

Either go to
	http://www.python.org
and click to bugs
(Special Topics has:
	Beginners_Guide
	Topic_Guides
	Python_Project: _bugs_, _patches_, ....)

If you are feeling terribly confident that you know the exact fix,
you could click on patches instead.

The bugs link is here:
	http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=5470&atid=105470

The pain is that you will need a SourceForge ID to submit a bug or
patch, but the process of getting one is not really horrid.  CLick
on the please log in part and do the dance.  They don't generate
much trash mail as far as I can tell.  Now posting a good email
address in comp.lang...., that can get you reams.

-Scott David Daniels
Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org







From staschuk at telusplanet.net  Mon Jul 21 21:10:58 2003
From: staschuk at telusplanet.net (Steven Taschuk)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 19:10:58 -0600
Subject: UserDict -> dict, reasons for migrating existing code
In-Reply-To: <bfga9l$ejp20$1@uni-berlin.de>; from andreas.kuntzagk@mdc-berlin.de on Mon, Jul 21, 2003 at 11:02:52AM +0200
References: <bfga9l$ejp20$1@uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <20030721191058.B1960@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>

Quoth Andreas Kuntzagk:
  [...]
> what would be the reasons to migrate existing code from the use of
> UserDict() to dict()? (UserString ...) What would be reasons against?
> Reasons I can think of:
> pro:
> - Speed Improvement because of a level of indirection less
> - UserDict can become deprecated
> 
> con:
> - Code not working whith older python
> - cost of migrating large codebase
> 
> Do you know other reasons?

I think there are still some issues with subclassing the built-in
types, but I've no idea what they are.  (Hopefully somebody more
knowledgeable will comment.)

Your thought that a dict subclass might be faster than a UserDict
subclass is plausible, but I'd strongly suggest doing some timing
experiments before doing any large migration under that assumption.

Otherwise, I think you've said everything.

-- 
Steven Taschuk             "The world will end if you get this wrong."
staschuk at telusplanet.net     -- "Typesetting Mathematics -- User's Guide",
                                 Brian Kernighan and Lorrinda Cherry




From tismer at tismer.com  Wed Jul  2 12:08:18 2003
From: tismer at tismer.com (Christian Tismer)
Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 18:08:18 +0200
Subject: My Big Dict.
In-Reply-To: <94974e1a.0307020532.1cb19956@posting.google.com>
References: <mailman.1057119003.11991.python-list@python.org> <20030702073735.40293ba2.christophe.delord@free.fr> <TXvMa.9902$BM.3065756@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com> <bdua4i$18el$1@biggoron.nerim.net> <94974e1a.0307020532.1cb19956@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3F030372.10804@tismer.com>

Paul Simmonds wrote:
...

I'm not trying to intrude this thread, but was just
struck by the list comprehension below, so this is
about readability.

> If this is a problem, use a combination of count and index methods to
> find the first, and use slices. For example, if you don't mind
> two-lined list comps:
> 
> d=dict([(l[:l.index('!')],l[l.index('!')+1:-1])\
>        for l in file('test.txt') if l.count('!')])

With every respect, this looks pretty much like another
P-language. The pure existance of list comprehensions
does not try to force you to use it everywhere :-)

...

compared to this:
...

> d={}
> for l in file("test.txt"):
>     try: i=l.index('!')
>     except ValueError: continue
>     d[l[:i]]=l[i+1:]

which is both faster in this case and easier to read.

About speed: I'm not sure with the current Python
version, but it might be worth trying to go without
the exception:

d={}
for l in file("test.txt"):
     i=l.find('!')
     if i >= 0:
         d[l[:i]]=l[i+1:]

and then you might even consider to split on the first
"!", but I didn't do any timings:

d={}
for l in file("test.txt"):
     try:
         key, value = l.split("!", 1)
     except ValueError: continue
     d[key] = value


cheers -- chris

-- 
Christian Tismer             :^)   <mailto:tismer at tismer.com>
Mission Impossible 5oftware  :     Have a break! Take a ride on Python's
Johannes-Niemeyer-Weg 9a     :    *Starship* http://starship.python.net/
14109 Berlin                 :     PGP key -> http://wwwkeys.pgp.net/
work +49 30 89 09 53 34  home +49 30 802 86 56  pager +49 173 24 18 776
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      whom do you want to sponsor today?   http://www.stackless.com/





From duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk  Fri Jul 18 10:57:35 2003
From: duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk (Duncan Booth)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 14:57:35 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Co-routines
References: <g7xRa.305$fF.9914@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au>
Message-ID: <Xns93BCA216469E7duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

<thewrights at ozemail.com.au> wrote in
news:g7xRa.305$fF.9914 at nnrp1.ozemail.com.au: 

> I have an application in which I want the users to be able to create
> python functions:
> 
> def f1():
>     print "1-1"
>     print "1-2"
>     print "1-3"
> 
> def f2():
>     print "2-1"
>     print "2-2"
>     print "3-3"
> 
> and when my application runs, I want to execute these functions in
> "lock-step", so that the output looks like:
> 
>     1-1
>     2-2
>     1-2
>     2-2
>     1-3
>     2-3

Does this do what you want?

Given an input string:
    SOURCE = """\
def f1():
    print "1-1"
    for ch in ('a', 'b', 'c'):
        print "1-2",ch
    print "1-3"

def f2():
    print "2-1"
    print "2-2"
    print "2-3"
"""

it produces:
1-1
2-1
1-2 a
2-2
1-2 b
2-3
1-2 c
1-3

N.B. It executes all top-level functions in the input, interleaving statements.
If a function calls another function, the called function will be executed
at full speed. A function could call another function 'line at a time' by
wrapping it's generator in for loop, but it would have to be explicit.

----- begin steplock.py -----
# Execute functions in steplock

import symbol, token
from symbol import *
from token import *
import parser
import compiler
import types

class Atom:
    def __init__(self, value):
        self.value = value

    def __repr__(self):
        return str(self.value)

def pretty(astList):
    res = []
    el = astList[0]
    if el in symbol.sym_name:
        res.append(Atom(symbol.sym_name[el]))
    elif el in token.tok_name:
        res.append(Atom(token.tok_name[el]))
    else:
        res.append(el)
    
    for el in astList[1:]:
        if isinstance(el, (list, tuple)):
            res.append(pretty(el))
        else:
            res.append(el)

    return type(astList)(res)

def printAst(ast, depth=2):
    if not isinstance(ast, (list, tuple)):
        ast = ast.tolist()

    import pprint
    pp = pprint.PrettyPrinter(depth=depth)
    pp.pprint(pretty(ast))

class TreeWalker:
    def __init__(self):
        pass

    def dovisit(self, node):
        t = node[0]
        nodetype = "default"
        if t in symbol.sym_name:
            nodetype = sym_name[t]
        elif t in token.tok_name:
            nodetype = tok_name[t]
        fname = "visit_" + nodetype

        if hasattr(self, fname):
            return getattr(self, fname)(node)
        return self.visit_default(node)
        
    def visit_default(self, node):
        # Visit an otherwise boring node.
        res = [ node[0] ]
        for child in node[1:]:
            if isinstance(child, (list, tuple)):
                res.append(self.dovisit(child))
            else:
                res.append(child)
        return tuple(res)

class TopWalker(TreeWalker):
    def __init__(self):
        self.generators = []

    def visit_file_input(self, node):
        newnodes = self.visit_default(node)
        
        assert newnodes[-1][0] == 0 and newnodes[-2][0] == 4
        newnodes = newnodes[:-2] + tuple(self.generators) + newnodes[-2:]
        return newnodes

    #def visit_stmt(self, node):
    #    printAst(node, depth=255)
    #    return self.visit_default(node)

    def visit_funcdef(self, node):
        self.generators.extend(MakeGenerator(node))
        return node

YIELD_STMT = (stmt, (simple_stmt, (small_stmt, (flow_stmt, (yield_stmt, (NAME, 'yield'),
    (testlist, (test, (and_test, (not_test, (comparison,
        (expr, (xor_expr, (and_expr, (shift_expr, (arith_expr, (term, (factor,
        (power, (atom, (NAME, 'None')))))))))))))))))), (NEWLINE, '')
    ))


def MakeGenerator(funcdefnode):
    funcname = funcdefnode[2][1]
    newfuncname = funcname + '_generator'
    suite = funcdefnode[-1]
    walker = FunctionWalker()
    newsuite = walker.dovisit(suite)

    NewFunc = (funcdef, (NAME, 'def'), (NAME, newfuncname)) + funcdefnode[3:-1] + (newsuite,)

    NewFunc_stmt = (stmt, (compound_stmt, NewFunc))
    #return (NewFunc_stmt, )

    ASSIGN_stmt = (stmt, (simple_stmt, (small_stmt, (expr_stmt, (testlist,
             (symbol.test, (and_test, (not_test, (comparison, (expr, (xor_expr,
                   (and_expr, (shift_expr, (arith_expr,(term, (factor, (power,
                         (atom, (NAME, funcname)),
                         (trailer, (DOT, '.'), (NAME, 'generator'))))))))))))))),
            (EQUAL, '='),
            (testlist, (symbol.test, (and_test, (not_test, (comparison, (expr, (xor_expr,
                   (and_expr, (shift_expr, (arith_expr,(term,
                   (factor, (power, (atom, (NAME, newfuncname))))))))))))))))),
          (NEWLINE, '')))

    DEL_stmt = (stmt, (simple_stmt, (small_stmt,
        (del_stmt, (NAME, 'del'),
                    (exprlist, (expr, (xor_expr, (and_expr, (shift_expr,
                        (arith_expr, (term, (factor, (power, (atom, (NAME, newfuncname))))))))))))),
            (NEWLINE, '')))

    return (NewFunc_stmt, ASSIGN_stmt, DEL_stmt)


class FunctionWalker(TreeWalker):

    def visit_funcdef(self, node):
        return node # Ignore nested functions!

    def visit_suite(self, node):
        #print "Visiting suite of %d children" % (len(node)-1)
        res = [ node[0] ]
        for el in node[1:]:
            if el[0] == stmt:
                if el[1][0] == compound_stmt:
                    res.append(self.dovisit(el))
                else:
                    res.append(el)
                    res.append(YIELD_STMT)
            else:
                res.append(el)

        return tuple(res)
        
def test():
    SOURCE = """\
def f1():
    print "1-1"
    for ch in ('a', 'b', 'c'):
        print "1-2",ch
    print "1-3"

def f2():
    print "2-1"
    print "2-2"
    print "2-3"
"""

    ast = parser.suite(SOURCE)
    astList = ast.totuple(1)

    walker = TopWalker()
    newList = walker.dovisit(astList)

    code = parser.sequence2ast(newList)
    namespace = { '__builtins__': __builtins__ }
    exec code.compile('dummy.py') in namespace

    functions = [ namespace[key].generator()
        for key in namespace
        if isinstance(namespace[key], types.FunctionType) ]

    while functions:
        for f in functions[:]:
            try:
                f.next()
            except StopIteration:
                functions.remove(f)

if __name__=='__main__':
    test()
----- end steplock.py -----

-- 
Duncan Booth                                             duncan at rcp.co.uk
int month(char *p){return(124864/((p[0]+p[1]-p[2]&0x1f)+1)%12)["\5\x8\3"
"\6\7\xb\1\x9\xa\2\0\4"];} // Who said my code was obscure?



From gh at ghaering.de  Fri Jul 18 05:51:18 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?UTF-8?B?R2VyaGFyZCBIw6RyaW5n?=)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 11:51:18 +0200
Subject: Unicode question
In-Reply-To: <3F17C0C3.6040309@ghaering.de>
References: <mailman.1058456911.22551.python-list@python.org>	<65m1yubd.fsf@python.net>	<mailman.1058486849.6595.python-list@python.org>	<pan.2003.07.18.01.59.38.588766@zmail.pt>
	<3F17C0C3.6040309@ghaering.de>
Message-ID: <3F17C316.3060702@ghaering.de>

Gerhard H?ring wrote:
> Ricardo Bugalho wrote:
>> On Fri, 18 Jul 2003 02:07:13 +0200, Gerhard H?ring wrote:
>>
>>>> Gerhard H?ring <gh at ghaering.de> writes:
>>>>
>>>>>>>> u"???"
>>>>>
>>>>> u'\x84\x94\x81'
>>>>> [this works, but IMO shouldn't]

> [...]
> You'll get warnings if you don't define an encoding (either encoding 
> cookie or BOM) and use 8-Bit characters in your source files. These 
> warnings will becomome errors in later Python versions.
> 
> It's all in the PEP :)

I feel like an idiot now :-( I do get the warnings when I run a Python 
script, but I do not get the warnings when I'm using the interactive 
prompt. So it's all good (almost). Why not also produce warnings at the 
interactive prompt?

-- Gerhard




From bignose-hates-spam at and-benfinney-does-too.id.au  Fri Jul 25 01:40:53 2003
From: bignose-hates-spam at and-benfinney-does-too.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: 25 Jul 2003 15:30:53 +0950
Subject: Why instancemethod when I can add functions to classes outside class body?
References: <6f03c4a5.0307242027.85f195a@posting.google.com> <m3oezj6v6w.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <slrnbi1hsk.hkq.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>

On 25 Jul 2003 07:18:15 +0200, Martin v. L?wis wrote:
> rimbalaya at yahoo.com (Rim) writes:
>> So what problem is the new.instancemethod() trying to solve?
> 
> It has no side effects on the class it is an instancemethod of.

So what side effects (i.e. what problem) is the new.instancemethod()
trying to solve?

-- 
 \        "I spent a lot of money on wine and women, and like a fool I |
  `\                              squandered the rest."  -- Benny Hill |
_o__)                                                                  |
http://bignose.squidly.org/ 9CFE12B0 791A4267 887F520C B7AC2E51 BD41714B



From tim at lesher.ws  Wed Jul  9 14:00:53 2003
From: tim at lesher.ws (Tim Lesher)
Date: 9 Jul 2003 11:00:53 -0700
Subject: Detecting user activity in Python
References: <beh576$jec$1@aken.eed.ericsson.se>
Message-ID: <b6562547.0307091000.2a34cd6d@posting.google.com>

Stefan Behrens <stefan.behrens.usenet at gmx.net> wrote in message news:<beh576$jec$1 at aken.eed.ericsson.se>...
> I rather doubt that such functionality is in Python itself, i.e.
> can be used platform independently. So in that case, has anyone
> examples of how to do that in native C++ for Windows and Linux?

For native windows, you can install a systemwide mouse hook and a
systemwide keyboard hook (in a .DLL).  When you receive a mouse or
keyboard message, reset a timer, then pass it to the next hook in the
chain.

You can get more information (and samples) from msdn.microsoft.com.



From claird at lairds.com  Sat Jul 19 23:06:12 2003
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 03:06:12 -0000
Subject: Calling tcl from python and viceversa
References: <453d10b2.0307190828.3c576f15@posting.google.com> <fbf8d8f2.0307191605.268f0b04@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <vhk1p4o8p0tp37@corp.supernews.com>

In article <fbf8d8f2.0307191605.268f0b04 at posting.google.com>,
dan <danbmil99 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>funny -- first look at the board and it's right on subject.
>
>I'm trying to write an app that does some cool stuff with sound
>samples, using tkSnack.  But I'm stuck on a simple question -- how do
>I insert some of my own code into the tkInter mainloop?  I need the
>sequencer to run in the background while the UI is up.
>
>Forgetting about snack for the moment, how do I run _any_
>non-event-driven code while my Tk widgets are active? (for instance,
>animation in one window while menus are still available).  I can't
>find any demos that show this sort of behavior.
>
>All the Tk examples I've seen set up the widgets and run
>root.mainloop().  I can't for the life of me figure out what code this
>call invokes, but it won't return until a quit command or some such
>action is initiated by the user.  TCL docs say that Tk_mainloop calls
>tcl_DoOneEvent() in a dead loop until a quit flag is set, or something
>like that.
>
>My best guess is that I'm supposed to set up another thread to do my
>stuff, and send messages to the Tkinter thread that trigger Tk events,
>or something like that.  But the Tkinter docs are so sketchy I can't
>really get a handle on how to do it.  Any help or pointers would be
>appreciated.
			.
			.
			.
In Tcl-think, one just lives with the "dead loop".  There
is no "non-event-driven code".  Tcl-ers go about as far as
anyone with this model.  "[A]nimation in one window while
menus are still available"?  The conventional Tcl response
is, "make the animation event-driven".  I know how unaes-
thetic that will seem to most readers; study <URL: http://
wiki.tcl.tk/GUIAlive > for its full, native expression.

Tcl has added thread support over the last few years--but
not in the standard distribution.  I've never seen a Tkinter
over a threading Tcl; I don't know how well it works.  Maybe
it's just what you're after.
-- 

Cameron Laird <Cameron at Lairds.com>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
Personal:  http://phaseit.net/claird/home.html



From mwh at python.net  Thu Jul 31 06:51:11 2003
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 10:51:11 GMT
Subject: Exceptions as New Style Classes
References: <98c4ab9a.0307300830.72dcdc74@posting.google.com> <mailman.1059599265.28808.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7h3fzknas1w.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

Steven Taschuk <staschuk at telusplanet.net> writes:

> Quoth Andrew:
> > To satisfy my curiosity I was wondering if anyone knew if this
> > behaviour was intentional?
> > Is there a specific reason why exceptions are not allowed to be new
> > style classes?
> 
> It is intentional.
> 
> There are two difficulties with allowing new-style classes as
> exception types.  Ideas exist for dealing with them, but at the
> moment none of them as been implemented.

They have, in PyPy!  (which doesn't do old-style classes at all, at
present).

IIUC, Guido thought what PyPy does would be sensible enough for
CPython, but I don't know what the timeframe might be.

Cheers,
mwh

-- 
  This is not to say C++ = bad, Lisp = good.  It's to say
  C++ = bad irrespective of everything else.
                                       -- Alain Picard, comp.lang.lisp



From maxm at mxm.dk  Thu Jul 10 06:23:06 2003
From: maxm at mxm.dk (Max M)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 12:23:06 +0200
Subject: Python vs PHP
In-Reply-To: <ou7k6q90f3.fsf@andlx-anamika.cisco.com>
References: <mailman.1057574470.1750.python-list@python.org> <kmolgv4mp12o71ocion7ra0m2s9fcrqjdk@4ax.com> <3F0D2827.4070501@mxm.dk> <ou7k6q90f3.fsf@andlx-anamika.cisco.com>
Message-ID: <3F0D3E8A.3080204@mxm.dk>

Ganesan R wrote:

>>>>>>"Max" == Max M <maxm at mxm.dk> writes:
> 
>>>Python web development is fragmented.
> 
>>Ahem ... How os Python web development fragmented? Most of it probably
>>takes place in the Zope world.
> 
> 
> How about the fact if you want something simpler than Zope you cannot point
> to a single framework and say use this one?


That's right. But without a framework, you are about on par with PHP. 
Only with a better language and better libraries.


regards Max M




From dmbkiwi at yahoo.com  Fri Jul 11 22:27:33 2003
From: dmbkiwi at yahoo.com (dmbkiwi)
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 14:27:33 +1200
Subject: Python - if/else statements
References: <pan.2003.07.11.19.34.16.330762@yahoo.com> <ben6uf$tcr$0@216.39.172.122> <pan.2003.07.11.23.16.08.781512@yahoo.com> <benpvl$9kj$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <pan.2003.07.12.02.27.29.730366@yahoo.com>

On Sat, 12 Jul 2003 01:58:13 +0000, Bengt Richter wrote:

> On Sat, 12 Jul 2003 11:16:12 +1200, dmbkiwi <dmbkiwi at yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
>>On Fri, 11 Jul 2003 20:33:19 +0000, Bengt Richter wrote:
>>
>>> On Sat, 12 Jul 2003 07:34:18 +1200, dmbkiwi <dmbkiwi at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>
>><snip>
>>Thanks for helping me with this.
>>
>>
>>>>def meterClicked(widget, meter, button):
>>>>	#print "meterclick"
>>>>	global dayshow, daypicrem, ddon, ddcon, buttonpressed
>>> # these globals -- where do they come from? What module? # Note that each
>>> module has its own globals, so is are there different modules # that think
>>> they're sharing globals but really aren't? There are ways to solve that, #
>>> but first, is that relevant?
>>
>>They don't come from a module, they come from different functions within
>>the script.  To be honest, I don't think I've ever quite understood
>>globals, so I insert them where I think they should go - probably quite
>>incorrecly.  Will this matter?
> It could. It depends. A script or a file (extension may vary, .py, .pyc, etc) that's imported
> is like a big room with a single cork bulletin board. Think of that bulletin board as
> the script's or module's global name space. It's where name tags can be tacked up with names
> associated with objects. You can think of the objects themselves as balloons attached to
> the name tags by strings (the houses have no roofs, so all the balloons occupy space
> someplace high up outside ;-)
> 
> Note that according to this model, when you assign x=y what you
> are doing is finding the y-labled tag and following its string to the associated object-balloon
> and tying a new string to that same balloon, and then attaching that new string to a
> new tag labeled x and tacking this new tag on an appropriate bulletin board, resulting in
> two tags and their strings leading to the same object-balloon.
> 
> Functions are like play houses inside the big room, and they each have their own
> bulletin boards inside, which is each function's local namespace.
> 
> If you write "global xxx" inside a function, you are saying that when you are in that
> playhouse, you will not use the inside private bulletin board for name tags labeled xxx,
> but you will instead reach out and use the bulletin board in the big room. So xxx=123
> means create an integer object-balloon with 123 value and make a tag labeled xxx and
> tie a string from the 123 balloon to that tag, and then reach out and tack the tag to the
> bulletin board in the big room.
> 
> When you leave the playhouse, its inside bulletin board is cleared of name tags (and the
> strings detached).  When you enter again, you start with a clean inside board with only
> name tags matching the formal parameter names (if any). If the last string is detached,
> it is grabbed by a balloon collector, who pops it to make sure there is always space in
> the sky for new balloons. Kind of ;-)
> 
> If you don't write "global xxx" inside the function, the rules for name tags labeled
> xxx are different according to whether there's any code _anywhere_ in the function
> that tacks up that name tag (e.g., assigns to that name) or whether the code just
> looks for an existing tag (i.e., just uses it in an expression).
> 
> If there's an assignment anywhere, it's an error to try to use it in an expression
> before the assignment. A legal assignment tacks the tag to the inside bulletin board.
> The balloon and string part is the same story wherever the tag goes.
> 
> If there's no assignment, then the only other ordinary way it can be on the inside bb
> is if it is a parameter name, or it got tacked there by some other code that tacks name tags,
> like def foo... will make a foo name tag (the string goes to a function object), or class Bar...
> which would make a Bar name tag with string to a class object. Those are the main ways.
> 
> If the name tag is not on the inside bb, it could still be on an enclosing playhouse's
> bulletin board (it is now possible to nest playhouses, not just have them all in the big room.
> If the name tag is not found on the bb of the immediately enclosing playhouse, it could be on
> the bb of yet another enclosing playhouse, and so on, until if it is not found on the bb of
> the big common room, it's a name error.
> 
> BTW, the name-tag end of strings can also be tied to some balloons, which may have special
> eyelets taped to them. E.g., tuple-balloons come in variations according to how many fixed
> eyelets they have for attaching strings to other balloons. In the case of tuples, the eyelets
> are single-use. You can't cut and re-tie a single string, you have to make a new tuple-balloon
> and tie what strings you want there. If you cut the last string to a tuple-balloon, the
> baloon collector will grab it and eventually cut all the strings and pop the tuple-balloon,
> maybe right away. He may have secret deals with balloon makers for recycling material, but
> that's his business. List-ballons allow eyelet re-use, and also adding or removing eyelets.
> But every eyelet must have a string leading to some balloon, even if it is the None balloon.
> 

Crikey, thanks for putting in the time to explain that.
>> 
>>> 
>>> # Second, are the globals accessible from multiple threads? Are you seeing
>>> hard-stuck errors or blue-moon errors?
>>
>>Now my newbiness will be evident.  Multiple threads?  I am not consciously
>>creating threads.  Should I?  Does python automatically create multiple
>>threads?  What are hard-stuck/blue-moon errors?
> You shouldn't have multiple threads unless you made them on purpose or used some
> module that did it without your knowing. It should be prominent in the docs if so, though.
> Hard-stuck/blue-moon is not technical terminology ;-) I meant, do you get the error
> every time the code is executed, or only once in a blue moon.

Hard-stuck (as far as I know).
>>
>>> 
>>>>	if (meter == mainpic) and (button == 1):
>>> 		# always here?
>>		# yes
>>>>		if ddcon == 0:
>>> 			# and here ?
>>			# yes
>>>>			if ddon == 1:
>>> 				# and here?
>>				# no
> 				# so at least one if didn't just 'fall through'!
>>>>				deleteDayDetail(widget, dayshow)
>>>>				karamba.redrawWidget(widget)
>>>>			createCurrentDetail(widget)
>>>>			karamba.redrawWidget(widget)
>>>>		else:
>>> 			# never here, you're saying, right?
>>			# always here
> 			# very very weird. What evidence are you interpreting to come to
these conclusions?
			I've put print statements in the script to ensure the script is doing
what I think it's doing.  These were removed for the purpose of posting to
this group.
>>> 			# <snip>
>>>>	else:
>>> 		# never here either, right?
>>		always here
> 		# again weird**n
		That's why I'm here.
>>> 		# <snip>
>>> 	# get here though?
>>	# yes
>>>>	buttonpressed = 1
>>>>
> If that is really happening, I wonder if you are somehow executing code from a different version
> or have some kind of mixed-up installation. Or are using incompatible extension modules?
> Do you have multiple versions installed? what are your versions, and what sym links are there?
> And what are the #! lines of your script(s)?

One point that I may not have made clear is that I'm not experiencing this
behaviour personally with my set up.  It is other people using this script
who are reporting this behaviour.  The difficulty I'm having is that it's
very hard to debug a problem you're not having.  I've sent versions of the
script to these people, with print statements at appropriate points to
ensure that the script is doing what I think it's doing (in terms of going
wrong for them), and from the output they send back, the interpreter is
definitely ignoring the else statement and ploughing through them, even
though, it's also executed the corresponding if statement.

>>> I used tabs above to line up (maybe ;-) with your text, but maybe you
>>> should run your code through tabnanny or something to check for consistent
>>> usage. I never use tabs (though I use the tab key and gvim puts in 4 space
>>
>>Tabs seem to be fine in the actual code - I think it's the word wrapping
>>in either your/my newsreader that is causing problems, but your tab
>>positioning is correct.
>>
>>> indentation for me ;-) so I haven't used the tab checkers, but you might
>>> benefit, perhaps.
>>
>>I'm using kate here under KDE/linux.  It has syntax highlighting for python, and
>>seems to deal with tabs nicely.
>>> 
>>>>What these users are experiencing is that this portion of code is being
>>>>processed, and evaluating all if statements as true, however, as you can
>>>>see, they cannot all be true each time this function is called.  Their
>>>>versions of python also ignore the else construct.
>>>>
> Their versions? Does that mean you are trying to run extensions or .pyc code
> with different version interpreters? That shouldn't work. Python source (.py)
> should work, unless an old interpreter runs into a new feature it doesn't know about.

See above.  "Their version" means the user's version, not my version, or
multiple versions.

> 
>>>>Can anyone shed any light on what might be going on with these users?
>>>>
>>> I'd check on the globals and threading issues first. Then see about
>>> building a mousetrap.
>>
>>Why would these affect the interpretation of the if/else.  Seems to me,
>>that if the if statement evaluates to true, then the else statement should be
>>ignored.  However, it appears that for these users, python is just
> Sure, I didn't really believe what I was reading, I guess. Sorry. I thought
> the condition data was getting clobbered, not the condition machinery.
> 
>>ploughing right on through, and running the else statement also.  Or am I
>>missing something.  What is a mousetrap?
> By mousetrap I meant some test code inserted to trap the problem mouse, metaphorically speaking.
> 
>>
>>Any further help would be greatly appreciated.
> I guess version clash or some installation corruption looks most likely from here.
> Gotta go...
> 
> Regards,
> Bengt Richter

Thanks anyway.  IF you have any other thoughts, let me know.

-- 
Regards
Matt

Suffering alone exists, none who suffer;
The deed there is, but no doer thereof;
Nirvana is, but no one is seeking it;
The Path there is, but none who travel it.
		-- "Buddhist Symbolism", Symbols and Values




From webmaster at fordweb.ca  Wed Jul 23 15:04:24 2003
From: webmaster at fordweb.ca (HostDomains.ca- A Division of FordWeb.Inc)
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 13:04:24 -0600
Subject: help...
Message-ID: <000a01c3514d$3bbed680$6c00a8c0@ab.hsia.telus.net>

we get the following error message when we try to login to our control panel for ensim....can you help

      key   
Traceback (innermost last):
  File C:\Program Files\Zope\lib\python\ZPublisher\Publish.py, line 162, in publish
  File C:\Program Files\Zope\lib\python\ZPublisher\BaseRequest.py, line 427, in traverse
  File .\base\AccessControl\CommonAccessControl.py, line 235, in validate
    (Object: RoleManager)
  File .\base\AccessControl\CommonAccessControl.py, line 296, in _authenticate
    (Object: RoleManager)
  File .\published\webhost\WebHostAccessControl.py, line 78, in userAuthenticate
    (Object: RoleManager)
  File .\base\serverman\current\registrymgr.py, line 54, in value2dict
NameError: key
 

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From bvdpoel at kootenay.com  Fri Jul 18 14:20:55 2003
From: bvdpoel at kootenay.com (Bob van der Poel)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 11:20:55 -0700
Subject: Using Python as script extension
Message-ID: <3f183aee_1@dns.sd54.bc.ca>

I'm looking for some suggestions on a project I'm working at these days...

I've written my program "Musical MIDI Accompaniment (MMA)" which parses 
a text file and generates MIDI output. I've written this in Python, and 
all works very nicely. See http://www.kootenay.com/~bvdpoel/music.html

Now, I am thinking that adding variables and conditional (if/then/else) 
possiblities to MMA scripts might be a good thing. If I want to do this 
I see several possible routes:

1. Add the code to maintain and set variables to my existing code. This 
always seems to end up being a lot more work than one plans. Certainly, 
adding a command like "Set MyVariable 123" is simple enought, but then 
the next thing you know one will be adding math, etc.

2. Somehow having Python handle the dirty stuff. I guess that my "Set 
MyVariable 123" could be passed along to Python with an eval or exec. 
However, I'm not sure how much help this would be since we still end up 
with having to write code to handle if/then/else.

3. Somehow turn my MMA scripts into python scripts and extend python to 
generate the stuff which my program originally set out to produce. This 
would involve a major rewrite of my own code and most likely send my 
exsiting MMA scripts into the dumpster...

And I'm sure I'm missing yet another solution. I'd really appreciate 
some thoughts and/or ideas on how I might approach this.

Thanks.

-- 
Bob van der Poel ** Wynndel, British Columbia, CANADA **
EMAIL: bvdpoel at kootenay.com
WWW:   http://www.kootenay.com/~bvdpoel





From logistix at cathoderaymission.net  Tue Jul 15 11:22:49 2003
From: logistix at cathoderaymission.net (logistix at cathoderaymission.net)
Date: 15 Jul 2003 08:22:49 -0700
Subject: Open MS Excel Spreadsheet with Python
References: <mailman.1058229111.12248.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3c91a864.0307150722.7ebfb569@posting.google.com>

"Allison Bailey" <allisonb at terralogicgis.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.1058229111.12248.python-list at python.org>...

> 
> Then, I get errors when I try the following:
> sh = wb.worksheets(1)

After running makepy, your methods become case sensitive.  They are
case insensitive before makepy.  You probably need 'wb.Worksheets(1)'



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Tue Jul 22 22:26:51 2003
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 22:26:51 -0400
Subject: python assignment
References: <fbf8d8f2.0307221659.1dd1ac77@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <_SOdnaZDbr7xb4CiXTWJjw@comcast.com>

"dan" <danbmil99 at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:fbf8d8f2.0307221659.1dd1ac77 at posting.google.com...
> without stirring the pot too much --
>
> could someone please point me to whatever documentation exists on
the
> philosophy, semantics, and practical implications of how Python
> implements the assignment operator?

Go to Google.com and search their c.l.py for 'assignment' during the
last 6 months.

>  I understand the basic concept that
> names are bound to objects which exist on the heap, but that still
> doesn't explain why a = b doesn't _always_ cause a to point to the
> same object as b.

But is *does*!!!

> What determines when the object in question is copied?

The programmer, by explicitly coding a copy operation.  Assignment
*never*, that I can think of, creates a new object by itself.  Name =
object *always* binds name to object in the appropriate namespace.

> What I need is an exact and unambiguous algorithm for determining
when
> an assignment will change the id of the variable

Variables do not have ids, only Pyobjects.

>(or should I say,  when the evaluation of an expression will cause
> a new object to be created).

Entirely separate issue.  Names in expressions always evaluate to an
existing object.  Attributes and collection item retrievals usually
do.  Non-method operations usually do not.

>  Some of the issues involved can be discerned from the following
session:

I am beginning to think that Python newbies should not be told about
id() and 'is' until they have learned enough to not misinterpret the
results.

> >>> a = 1
> >>> b = a
> >>> a is b
> True

Correct, for the reason you think.

> >>> a += 1
> >>> a -= 1
> >>> a is b
> True

Correct, but probably not why you think.  For immutable types, two
copies are the same as one copy, so the interpreter free to reuse an
existing object of the same value as needed rather than allocate a
redundant duplicate.  CPython does this for commonly used small ints,

<startup>
>>> import sys
>>> sys.getrefcount(1)
50 #49 internal, 1 from the function call

but this is an implementation detail newbies should not worry about
(except out of idle curiosity -- which I had also ;-).  If you really
are curious, repeat the above with -2, -1, 99, 100, 101.  Also,
experiment with 'a', 'aa', and 'a a'.

> >>> a = 1.0
> >>> b = a
> >>> a is b
> True

Same as example one.

> >>> a += 1
> >>> a -= 1
> >>> a is b
> False

Correct, CPython does not preallocate any floats.

> >>> a == b
> True

Numbers compare by numerical value, independent of type:
>>> 0 == 0L == 0.0 == 0.0+0.0j
1

Terry J. Reedy





From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Wed Jul  9 16:22:28 2003
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 9 Jul 2003 16:22:28 -0400
Subject: Guido.moves_to(California) ?
References: <mailman.1057780515.14033.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <behti4$86v$1@panix2.panix.com>

In article <mailman.1057780515.14033.python-list at python.org>,
Roman Suzi  <rnd at onego.ru> wrote:
>
>I was not very surprised to hear that, but I wonder if it means
>new licenses coming:

Nope.  Now that there's an independent organization (the PSF) to hold
Python's intellectual property, there's no reason (and almost no chance)
of any further major changes to the Python license.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"Not everything in life has a clue in front of it...."  --JMS



From Mark.Fenbers at noaa.gov  Sat Jul  5 08:07:24 2003
From: Mark.Fenbers at noaa.gov (Mark Fenbers)
Date: Sat, 05 Jul 2003 08:07:24 -0400
Subject: Bewildered graphs
Message-ID: <3F06BF7C.8DC6A978@noaa.gov>

I am investigating Python for the sake of ultimately generating hydrographs
(such as this: http://ahps.erh.noaa.gov/iln/ahps/RiverDat/gifs/prgo1.png)
on-the-fly from a web server cluster.  I have not used Python previously and do
not yet know if Python is very useful for this or if I am wasting my time.

Quite frankly, I am a little bewildered.  Not only is there Python, but there
are many extention modules which cloud up my view as to what I will need.
There's Scientific Python, which sounds promising, but there's also SciPy which
in itself has gnuplot, xplt and plt modules.  I know enough about gnuplot to
know that it won't meet my needs because I need to be able to shade regions
above certain values such as done in yellow on the example hydrograph (the link
above).  It also doesn't have many font options or the ability to place an image
such as the NOAA logo.

Can someone kindly guide me as to what I would most likely need to replicate the
graph shown via the link above?

Mark
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From alf at fayauffre.org  Thu Jul 31 12:54:46 2003
From: alf at fayauffre.org (Alexandre Fayolle)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 16:54:46 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: <dict>.setdefault()
References: <kmgiivclivi0vhbgr6adel4dafflq6i6ir@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <slrnbiiiem.pii.alf@largo.fayauffre.org>

Tino Lange a ?crit :
> I just realized that <dict>.setdefault *always* executes the second
> argument - even if it's not necessary, because the requested item in
> the first argument exists.
 
Since setdefault is a method, this is coherent with Python's standard
behaviour: method and function arguments are always evaluated before the
method is called. 

-- 
Alexandre Fayolle
LOGILAB, Paris (France).
http://www.logilab.com   http://www.logilab.fr  http://www.logilab.org
D?veloppement logiciel avanc? - Intelligence Artificielle - Formations



From adechert at earthlink.net  Sun Jul 20 20:44:01 2003
From: adechert at earthlink.net (Alan Dechert)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 00:44:01 GMT
Subject: Possible use of Python for a voting machine demo project -- your feedback requested
References: <P9DSa.111436$Io.9552373@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <bff56e$8iv$1@slb9.atl.mindspring.net> <7xllus94t8.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <K_idnV09hdycrYaiRTvU2Q@speakeasy.net>
Message-ID: <lHGSa.111792$Io.9577193@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>

"A.M. Kuchling" <amk at amk.ca> wrote in message
news:K_idnV09hdycrYaiRTvU2Q at speakeasy.net...
> On 20 Jul 2003 16:06:11 -0700,
> Paul Rubin <> wrote:
> > one another.  Otherwise the ballot would be a voting receipt,
> > something that a good voting system should not provide.  Search for
> > "receipt-free voting" in Google to see what a big problem this is for
> > computerized systems.
>
> On the other hand, given the ready availability of cellphones with digital
> cameras, even in a paper-based system you can now make your own voting
> receipt while you're still in the voting booth.  Not clear what can be
done
> about this... perhaps you'll have to hand in your cellphone when voting,
and
> go through an X-ray system to prove you don't have it.
>
Right.  This receipt problem is way overblown.  If we really thought this
was a big problem, absentee voting would be illegal.  There are problems
with absentee voting but then look at Oregon -- they have gone to
vote-by-mail entirely.

There are always going to be some risks but we have to make them manageable.

Alan Dechert





From anton at vredegoor.doge.nl  Fri Jul  4 18:24:01 2003
From: anton at vredegoor.doge.nl (Anton Vredegoor)
Date: Sat, 05 Jul 2003 00:24:01 +0200
Subject: getting a submatrix of all true
References: <mailman.1057173484.29754.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <be4v0s$nmv$1@news.hccnet.nl>

John Hunter <jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu> wrote:

>Another way of formulating the question: for a sparse boolean matrix
>(sparse on True), what is the optimal way to remove rows and columns
>so that the total number of elements in the matrix is maximal and
>there are no True values left.

After having read Bengts code (and scraping the parts of my exploded
head from the floor) and after later getting the hint about the size
of the problem being 2**N, it finally dawned on me that the problem
would be related to getting all possible combinations of a range.

The following code has the advantage that it generates solutions by
index, for example "M[i]" returns the score and the row and column
information for index i. (note that is not the same as finding the
optimal solution, but it still could be handy to be able to generate a
specific one by index) 

However for small matrices it is possible to do exhaustive searching
with "max(M)". 

Maybe if this would be combined with some heuristic algorithm it would
be better (genetic algorithm?)

Code below (needs Python 2.3, very lightly tested), I hope this helps,

Anton

class Combinations:
    
    def __init__(self,n,k):
        self.n,self.k,self.count = n,k,self.noverk(n,k)
    
    def __getitem__(self,index):
        #combination number index
        if index > self.count - 1: raise IndexError
        res,x,rest = [],self.n,index
        for i in range(self.k,0,-1):
            while self.noverk(x,i) > rest : x -= 1
            rest -= self.noverk(x,i)
            res.append(x)
        return res
        
    def noverk(self,n,k):
        return reduce(lambda a,b: a*(n-b)/(b+1),range(k),1)
    
class AllCombinations:
    
    def __init__(self,n):
        self.n, self.count = n, 2**n
    
    def __getitem__(self,index):
        #combination number index for all k in combinations(n,k)
        if index > self.count - 1: raise IndexError        
        n,rest = self.n,index
        for k in range(n+1):
            c = Combinations(n,k)
            if rest - c.count < 0:
                return c[rest]
            rest -= c.count

class ScoreMatrix:
    
    def __init__(self, X):
        self.AC = AllCombinations(len(X))
        self.X = X
    
    def __getitem__(self,i):
        #score selected rows and columns by index
        rows = self.AC[i][::-1]    
        if rows:
            Y = [self.X[i] for i in rows]
            Z = [(i,z) for i,z in enumerate(zip(*Y)) if 1 not in z]
            cols = [i for i,z in Z]
            score = sum(map(len,[z for i,z in Z]))
            return score,rows,cols
        else: return 0,[],[]

def test():
    X = [   [1, 0, 0, 0, 1],
                [0, 0, 0, 0, 0],
                [0, 0, 0, 1, 0],
                [0, 0, 0, 0, 0],
                [0, 0, 1, 0, 0],
                [0, 0, 1, 0, 0], ]
                
    M = ScoreMatrix(X)
    sc,rows,cols = max(M)
    print sc
    for i,r in enumerate(X):
        for j,c in enumerate(r):
            if i in rows and j in cols: print c,
            else: print 'x',
        print

if __name__=='__main__':
    test()

output:

16
x x x x x
0 0 x 0 0
x x x x x
0 0 x 0 0
0 0 x 0 0
0 0 x 0 0



From staschuk at telusplanet.net  Wed Jul 16 22:13:24 2003
From: staschuk at telusplanet.net (Steven Taschuk)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 20:13:24 -0600
Subject: Recursion in compile()
In-Reply-To: <781faf41.0307161629.6295618b@posting.google.com>; from naren@trillium.com on Wed, Jul 16, 2003 at 05:29:08PM -0700
References: <781faf41.0307161629.6295618b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20030716201324.D656@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>

Quoth Narendra C. Tulpule:
>   is there any way to allow recusrion in compile()? Something like:
> 
> src_code = 'def fact(n):\n\tif n <= 1:\n\t\treturn 1\n\telse:' + \
>            '\n\t\treturn n * fact(n-1)\n\nprint fact(12)\n'
> cobj = compile(src_code, 'myfile', 'exec')
> eval(cobj)

This works fine for me -- it prints 479001600 as expected, on both
2.2.2 and 2.3b1.  What is the problem you're seeing?

-- 
Steven Taschuk                staschuk at telusplanet.net
"I tried to be pleasant and accommodating, but my head
 began to hurt from his banality."   -- _Seven_ (1996)




From adalke at mindspring.com  Sun Jul 13 17:12:12 2003
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 15:12:12 -0600
Subject: Newbie with sort text file question
References: <mailman.1058044097.29736.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <beshr0$qto$1@slb5.atl.mindspring.net>

Bob Gailer:
> [Pipeline]

Huh.  Hadn't heard of that one before.  Thanks for the pointer.
(And overall, nice post!)

> The Python version:

Some stylistic comments

> input = file('c:\input.txt')

Since 'input' is a builtin, I use 'infile'.  That's only a preference of
mine.
For the OP, you'll need 'c:\\input.txt' because the '\' has special meaning
inside of a string so must be escaped.

> fruits = {} # a dictionary to hold each fruit and its count
> lines = input.readlines()
> for line in lines:

Since you are using Python 2.2 (later you use "if fruit in fruits",
and "__in__" support for dicts wasn't added until Python 2.2, I
think, and the 'file' usage is also new), this is best written as

  for line in input:

>    fruit = line.split('_', 1)[0]

>    if fruit in fruits:
>      fruits[fruit] += 1 # increment count
>    else:
>      fruits[fruit] = 1 # add to dictionary with count of 1

Here's a handy idiom for what you want

      fruits[fruit] = fruits.get(fruit, 0) + 1

> output1 = file('c:\output1.txt', 'w')
> for key, value in fruits.items():
>    output1.write("%s occurs %s\n" % (key, value))
> output1.close()
> output2 = file('c:\output2.txt', 'w')
> output2.write("Total occurrences is %s\n" % len(lines))
> output2.close()

That's missing some sorts, so I don't think it meets the OP's
requirements.

How about this?

infile = open("input.txt")
lines = []
counts = {}
for line in infile:
  lines.append(line)
  fruit = line.split("_", 1)[0]
  counts[fruit] = counts.get(fruit) + 1

# Sort by name.  Since "_" sorts after any letter, this means
# that "plum_" will be placed *after* "plumbago_", which
# is probably not what you want.  Left as an exercise :)
lines.sort()
outfile = open("output1.txt")
for line in lines:
  outfile.write(line)
outfile.close()

# Print counts from highest count to lowest
count_data = [(n, fruit) for (fruit, n) in counts.items()]
count_data.sort()
outfile = open("output2.txt")
total = 0
for n, fruit in count_data:
  outfile.write("%s occurs %s\n" % (fruit, n))
  total += n
outfile.write("\nTotal occurances: %s\n" % total)
outfile.close()

                    Andrew
                    dalke at dalkescientific.com





From bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au  Sun Jul  6 22:35:00 2003
From: bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 02:35:00 GMT
Subject: anything new on the ternary operator?
References: <mailman.1057533670.9800.python-list@python.org> <%G4Oa.22187$Ey6.10119@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net>
Message-ID: <slrnbghn1r.8cj.bignose-hates-spam@zeus.zipworld.com.au>

On Mon, 07 Jul 2003 02:13:15 GMT, Russell Reagan wrote:
> What is superior about using the proposed ternary operator instead of
> using the 'and' and 'or' operators to simulate inline logic?

The "cond and expr1 or expr2" does not always function as expected for a
ternary if-then-else operator.  The PEP for the ternary operator
explains:

    "A common way to emulate an if-then-else expression is:

        <condition> and <expression1> or <expression2>

    However, this doesn't work the same way: it returns <expression2>
    when <expression1> is false!  See FAQ 4.16 for alternatives that
    work -- however, they are pretty ugly and require much more effort
    to understand."
    <http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0308.html>

FAQ 4.16 is here:
    <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw.py?req=show&file=faq04.016.htp>

-- 
 \     "I wish I had a dollar for every time I spent a dollar, because |
  `\        then, yahoo!, I'd have all my money back."  -- Jack Handey |
_o__)                                                                  |
http://bignose.squidly.org/ 9CFE12B0 791A4267 887F520C B7AC2E51 BD41714B



From rreagan at attbi.com  Mon Jul  7 23:33:32 2003
From: rreagan at attbi.com (Russell Reagan)
Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 03:33:32 GMT
Subject: A story about Python... sort of
References: <mailman.1057616412.8695.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <gYqOa.2781$N7.1106@sccrnsc03>

"John J Lee" <jjl at pobox.com> wrote:

>  A Google result (appropriately enough, given the origin of
> the name Google) suggested 10**120

10**120 is the estimate of "paths", or "games", not "positions". The
estimate of unique positions is 10**40, give or take. I don't recall whether
that figure includes illegal positions that could never exist in a legal
game of chess.





From spock at telerama.com  Tue Jul 29 13:49:17 2003
From: spock at telerama.com (Matt Newcomb)
Date: 29 Jul 2003 10:49:17 -0700
Subject: Jython + propertyChangeListener?!?!
Message-ID: <40cdba6.0307290949.2df33f17@posting.google.com>

G'day,

Hi.  I'm new to jython/python and am trying to interface a jython
script with some java code that produces property change events. 
Here's the jython code:

import sys;
from javax import swing;
from java.beans import PropertyChangeListener;
from gov.nasa.gsfc.irc.instrument import InstrumentModelProvider;

class irchooks(PropertyChangeListener):

    def propertyChange(self, e):
        print "Property Change:";
        print e;
        print self;
        
    def __init__(self):

        self.modelProvider = InstrumentModelProvider.getInstance()
        self.model = self.modelProvider.getInstrument("Detector")

        print "Sample Rate: "
        print self.model.getFramePeriod();

        self.model.addPropertyChangeListener(self);

        print "Generate a property change event"
        self.model.setFramePeriod(0.215);

Then when I try running this code from the application ( via the bean
scripting framework ), I keep getting these errors:

Sample Rate:
0.001
Traceback (innermost last):
  File "<string>", line 37, in ?
  File "<string>", line 33, in __init__
TypeError: propertyChange() too many arguments; expected 1 got 2
Exception in backgrounded command procedure: PropertChangeTest
exception from JPython: Traceback (innermost last):
  File "<string>", line 37, in ?
  File "<string>", line 33, in __init__
TypeError: propertyChange() too many arguments; expected 1 got 2
: Traceback (innermost last):
  File "<string>", line 37, in ?
  File "<string>", line 33, in __init__
TypeError: propertyChange() too many arguments; expected 1 got 2

Huh?  Any ideas?

Thanks.

Matt Newcomb
Yerkes Observatory
373 W. Geneva St.
Williams Bay, WI
53191



From abcdebl2nonspammy at verizon.net  Thu Jul 17 00:27:23 2003
From: abcdebl2nonspammy at verizon.net (David Lees)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 04:27:23 GMT
Subject: Regular expression help
Message-ID: <LApRa.5420$Qe5.2628@nwrddc03.gnilink.net>

I forget how to find multiple instances of stuff between tags using 
regular expressions.  Specifically I want to find all the text between a 
series of begin/end pairs in a multiline file.

I tried:
 >>> p = 'begin(.*)end'
 >>> m = re.search(p,s,re.DOTALL)

and got everything between the first begin and last end.  I guess 
because of a greedy match.  What I want to do is a list where each 
element is the text between another begin/end pair.

TIA

David Lees




From wiebke.paetzold at mplusr.de  Thu Jul 31 07:16:06 2003
From: wiebke.paetzold at mplusr.de (Wiebke Pätzold)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 13:16:06 +0200
Subject: regular expression
Message-ID: <guthivo3oliuj96l00kriof2hdev7oujfb@4ax.com>

Hi all,

I wrote a little program. Here it is:

import sys
import Mk4py

db = Mk4py.storage("c:\\datafile.mk",1)
vw = db.view("people")

def func(row):
    try:
        if row.Nachname[0:1]=='G':
            return 1
        else:
            return 0
    except AttributeError:
        return 0


vf = vw.filter(func)

for r in vf:
    print  vw[r.index].Nachname,vw[r.index].Kongressbereich
    

I create a database that contains a table. 'Nachname' and
'Kongressbereich' are special fieldnames. This program can search for
a special letter. In my example it is 'G'. and the search takes place
in 'Nachname'.
Mow I want to use regular expression. So that I can limit my search.
For example: I can search for Ge and it is not relevant wich letters
follow
Could somebody help me with this task?

Wiebke



From mis6 at pitt.edu  Tue Jul 22 22:11:50 2003
From: mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato)
Date: 22 Jul 2003 19:11:50 -0700
Subject: feature request: a better str.endswith
References: <2259b0e2.0307180401.5dae02f2@posting.google.com> <mailman.1058530829.7072.python-list@python.org> <3f17f883$0$49107$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl> <2259b0e2.0307190529.57338b3f@posting.google.com> <NpkSa.16049$7O.14695@nwrdny01.gnilink.net> <2259b0e2.0307200721.16ef2ea1@posting.google.com> <45228044.0307210522.1ef95144@posting.google.com> <2259b0e2.0307210918.614892ba@posting.google.com> <bfi4ir$t21$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <2259b0e2.0307221611.51d6ff27@posting.google.com>

bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) wrote in message news:<bfi4ir$t21$0 at 216.39.172.122>...
> I think I'd prefer
> 
>   if any_true(filename.endswith, ('.jpg','.jpeg','.gif','.png')):
>      dosomething()
> 
> I suspect it will more often make sense read aloud in the general
> 
>   if any_true(pred, seq):
> 
> than
> 
>   if the(pred, seq)
> 
> I guess the full set of functions might be
> any_true, any_false, all_true, and all_false.
> 
> or maybe someone can think of better short phrase?
> 
> Regards,
> Bengt Richter

I think in the specific case I was talking about "the" was quite
readable; however I agree that in the general case "any_true" etc.
would be better.
I would not be opposed to add these convenience functions in
itertools. The
advantage is standardization (i.e. I don't have to invent my own name,
different from the name chosen by anybody else), the disadvantage is 
more things to learn; however, with such descriptive names, it would
be
difficult to not grasp what those functions are doing, even without
looking at the documentation. Anyway, I am sure many will be opposed, 
saying that such functions are so simple that they do not deserve to
be
in the library. This would be a sensible opinion, BTW.


          Michele



From jordan at krushen.com  Mon Jul 21 04:43:55 2003
From: jordan at krushen.com (Jordan Krushen)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 01:43:55 -0700
Subject: httplib\urllib attributes problem
In-Reply-To: <006001c34f07$03bb0760$6700a8c0@inet43>
References: <mailman.1058768851.9542.python-list@python.org>
 <oprsng7vhi5ctagx@shawnews> <oprsnhddis5ctagx@shawnews>
 <005201c34f05$e273da60$6700a8c0@inet43> <oprsnjc3nl5ctagx@shawmail>
 <006001c34f07$03bb0760$6700a8c0@inet43>
Message-ID: <oprsnjvhrs5ctagx@shawmail>

On Sun, 20 Jul 2003 23:36:44 +0200, Bobbie <lorenb2 at bezeqint.net> wrote:

> hmmm.
> But doesn't that apply to the suggested "opener.addheaders = []" change 
> as
> well ?

That would go in your code, not in urllib2.py.  You have control over when 
your code changes, and if you ship a package to other users, this would 
still be able to override their libraries, too.

J.






From cookedm+news at physics.mcmaster.ca  Sat Jul 19 20:21:11 2003
From: cookedm+news at physics.mcmaster.ca (David M. Cooke)
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 20:21:11 -0400
Subject: distutils.core not in Debian python2.2 package
References: <pfjSa.730$zu1.8428@reggie.win.bright.net>
Message-ID: <qnkbrvq2glk.fsf@arbutus.physics.mcmaster.ca>

At some point, Kent Tenney <kent at NOSPAMspringfed.com> wrote:

> Howdy,
>
> I did;
> # apt-get install python2.2
>
> # python
> Python 2.2.1
> ...
>  >>>
>
> then checked docutils out of CVS
> and did;
>
> docutils# python ./setup.py install
>
> ImportError: No module named distutils.core
>
> How do I install distutils?

Install the python2.2-dev package.

-- 
|>|\/|<
/--------------------------------------------------------------------------\
|David M. Cooke
|cookedm(at)physics(dot)mcmaster(dot)ca



From schull at digitalgoods.com  Tue Jul 15 01:30:56 2003
From: schull at digitalgoods.com (Jon Schull)
Date: 14 Jul 2003 22:30:56 -0700
Subject: Securing PyDoc and CGIHTTPserver
References: <2621b014.0307100535.449ad06f@posting.google.com> <3F0D7887.9D069ED0@engcorp.com> <xqx3chexplh.fsf@cola2.ca.boeing.com> <3F0E136A.6222F201@engcorp.com> <2621b014.0307140819.6ec99736@posting.google.com> <3F13034D.19A4C65@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <2621b014.0307142130.6e49ea6d@posting.google.com>

Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message news:<3F13034D.19A4C65 at engcorp.com>...
> 
> If this is merely a "local webserver interface", then it should bind
> to localhost only.  

Well, maybe this is how the question should be phrased.  How best to
securely and reliably "bind to localhost only" (spoof-proofly, etc.)?



From lists at gregfortune.com  Tue Jul 22 15:07:46 2003
From: lists at gregfortune.com (Greg Fortune)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 12:07:46 -0700
Subject: Installing lots of packages
Message-ID: <MOfTa.3380$Jk5.2343975@feed2.centurytel.net>

I've got a whole bunch of package dependencies in the programs I develop. 
Mainly, they are generic libraries/utilities I've written that are needed
by most of the programs I write.  The biggest problem I've had with
python's packaging system is that I end up needing to install every library
package on each machine I install my programs on.  It's even worse when I
go through an upgrade...

Is there any way to create something like a "meta-package"?  ie, can bundle
a whole bunch of packages together under a single installer?  I'm working
on both Windows and Mac so the tools need to support both platforms.  Does
anything exist for this purpose?

Thanks,

Greg Fortune
Fortune Solutions



From gerard.sookahet at artenum.com  Sat Jul 19 13:54:20 2003
From: gerard.sookahet at artenum.com (Gerard Sookahet)
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 19:54:20 +0200
Subject: Calling tcl from python and viceversa
In-Reply-To: <453d10b2.0307190828.3c576f15@posting.google.com>
References: <453d10b2.0307190828.3c576f15@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bfc03r$9ec$1@news-reader6.wanadoo.fr>

Carlos P. wrote:

> Hi!
> I want to call tcl from python and python from tcl. The big picture is
> that I?m writing an application GUI with tcl/tk and application logic
> with python, so at least I want to call python events from the tk GUI.
> I have read about _tkinter and tkapp.call although I couldn?t find any
> detailed documentation. And, anyway, that seems to work in one
> direction (python->tcl) but I don?t know how to make it work in the
> other (tcl->python).
> Thank you,
> Carlos

Hello,

I have found an hint in the Tcl Wiki about Tclpython:

  http://mini.net/tcl/5630

May be this will help you a little.

Gerard Sookahet




From bogal2 at comcast.net  Tue Jul 15 14:54:14 2003
From: bogal2 at comcast.net (BogAl)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 13:54:14 -0500
Subject: Can't install csv parser
References: <MPG.197b80c54e88b1489896a6@news.in.comcast.giganews.com> <3f11ba56$0$6532$afc38c87@sisyphus.news.be.easynet.net> <m3r84tivkn.fsf@ferret.object-craft.com.au> <MPG.197c88885d4542c09896a8@news.in.comcast.giganews.com> <c76ff6fc.0307141554.e915b0b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <MPG.197e17e35a78de759896ac@news.in.comcast.giganews.com>

Thanks for the reply, John....
 
> I would suggest that you 
> (1) Remove all your copies of csv.pyd
> (2) Install the csv module properly by following the instructions on
> Dave's website (i.e. briefly, you unpack the distribution into a
> directory, and then run setup.py)

I tried this first; went to the suggested alternative second.  Here's 
what happens when I run setup.py:

C:\Python22\Lib\site-packages\csv>
    python.exe C:\PYTHON22\LIB\SITE-P~1\CSV\SETUP.PY

usage: SETUP.PY [global_opts] cmd1 [cmd1_opts] [cmd2 [cmd2_opts] ...]
   or: SETUP.PY --help [cmd1 cmd2 ...]
   or: SETUP.PY --help-commands
   or: SETUP.PY cmd --help

error: no commands supplied

> (3) If you still have a problem, post a message that shows
> (a) what version of Windows you are running
> (b) what version of Python
> (c) your windows path 
> (d) your Python path (import sys; print sys.path)
> (e) what you get when you run Python (at the DOS command line!!) with
> -v and try to import the csv module
> (f) what the MS depends utility says about
> C:\Python22\Lib\site-packages\csv.pyd
> 
> Another thought: I found I had a python22.dll (dated Oct 2002, must be
> from Python 2.2.2) in my c:\WINNT\system32 directory and one dated May
> 2003 (must be from Python 2.2.3) in my c:\Python22 directory ... don't
> know how that happened; puzzling ... I've killed off the older one.
> You might like to search python22.dll *AND* msvcrt.dll and ensure that
> you are using the latest.
> 
> HTH,
> John



From ebolonev at rol.ru  Fri Jul  4 03:19:36 2003
From: ebolonev at rol.ru (Egor Bolonev)
Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 18:19:36 +1100
Subject: enumerate example
Message-ID: <be3akm$khf$2@news.rol.ru>

Hello, All!

Any useful example for enumerate, please.

With best regards, Egor Bolonev.  E-mail: ebolonev at rol.ru [ru eo en]




From delphiro at zonnet.nl  Fri Jul  4 08:46:57 2003
From: delphiro at zonnet.nl (delphiro)
Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 14:46:57 +0200
Subject: Kylix reality (was: Python is a gem, you need to keep pushing
 it ....)
Message-ID: <20030704144657.60f8f5dc.delphiro@zonnet.nl>

> How is Kylix "nasty and not-so-friendly"?  I
> generally think of it as rather polished and
> useful.

We (the company I work for) have a lot of problems with Kylix.
On RedHat 9 debugging threads crashes Kylix, on Debian
Woody the C++ compiler crashes with any compilation and there 
are more crashes, even on 'certified' linux disrtibutions.

It just seems like Borland only supports older Linux distributions
and does not want to release patches for newer RedHat / Suse /
Mandrake releases. Apart from that I think it should work on 
*any* linux distribution not just the 'major' ones.

The IDE also is kind of sloppy (based on Wine) and feels akward
when you are used to the Delphi IDE (there seems to be a slight delay
between a keypress and the action that should happen, even on a PIII-900). 
Personaly I think the Kylix IDE could improve a lot if the code was native. 

Don't get me wrong, I think it is great that Borland takes linux
seriously and compiled Kylix applications run perfectly but 
the product needs a lot of polishing before becoming
as smooth as it is for the Windows platforms.

Rob




From hp at rentec.com  Tue Jul 29 18:39:30 2003
From: hp at rentec.com (HP)
Date: 29 Jul 2003 15:39:30 -0700
Subject: urlretrieve a file whose name has spaces in it
Message-ID: <10caf2e2.0307291439.33d9fcc3@posting.google.com>

I am using urllib.urlretrieve() to download a file from a web site.
THe trouble is that the file name has spaces in it,
such as "string string1 foo.doc".

The statement:
urllib.urlretrieve("http://website.com/path/string string1 foo.doc",
"local_file");

produces local_file which contains the following one line:
<html><head><title>Error</title></head><body>The parameter is
incorrect. </body></html>

What is the correct way of specifying the this file in urlretrieve() ?

thanks
HP



From janeaustine50 at hotmail.com  Tue Jul  1 22:37:50 2003
From: janeaustine50 at hotmail.com (Jane Austine)
Date: 1 Jul 2003 19:37:50 -0700
Subject: __del__ not working with cyclic reference?
Message-ID: <ba1e306f.0307011837.269e3d2a@posting.google.com>

I have some code using singleton pattern. The singleton instance
is shared as a class variable. The problem is that the singleton
instance is not cleared automatically.

Following is a simplified version that shows the problem:

--------
#foobar.py
class FooBar:
    def __del__(self):
        print "FooBar removed"

FooBar.foobar=FooBar()
--------

c:\python23>python foobar.py

c:\python23>

It doesn't print anything.

Why is this so? Due to the cyclic reference? Isn't python's gc
supposed to treat it? What singleton idiom is recommended 
otherwise?

Thanks

Jane



From skip at pobox.com  Wed Jul 30 15:31:38 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 14:31:38 -0500
Subject: Upgrading python
In-Reply-To: <TdqdnbFKsZmFIbqiXTWc-g@speakeasy.net>
References: <ItycnZqbMc9St7qiXTWc-w@speakeasy.net>
        <m33cgohbf9.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
        <TdqdnbFKsZmFIbqiXTWc-g@speakeasy.net>
Message-ID: <16168.7450.873745.526233@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    Stephen> I guess that I had in mind a move from 2.2.2 to 2.2.3. What's
    Stephen> the rule for a minor upgrade like this?

I'd actually be more careful there than if I was just installing 2.3.  I'd
uninstall 2.2.2, then install 2.2.3.  I'd also rummage back through the
folders containing third-party stuff (stuff which winds up in site-packages)
and reexecute

    python setup.py clean
    python setup.py install

Skip




From richmond at ev1.net  Sat Jul 12 11:36:49 2003
From: richmond at ev1.net (Charles Richmond)
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 15:36:49 GMT
Subject: Collective memory
References: <mailman.1057083728.8224.python-list@python.org> <vg88va53uha8e@corp.supernews.com> <3F09F136.6060000@srv.net> <3F0B2857.6EE3A30F@ev1.net> <1fxw51u.2b4m6zc39wulN%proto@panix.com>
Message-ID: <3F10466E.19E34A7E@ev1.net>

Walter Bushell wrote:
> 
> Charles Richmond <richmond at ev1.net> wrote:
> <Snip>
> > int  *p, x, y;
> >
> > then:
> >
> >     y = x/*p;
> >
> > is quite different from:
> >
> >     y = x / *p;
> >
> > The first way, "/*" will begin a comment...the second way,
> > you get the integer "x" divided by the integer pointed to by "p".
> 
> Ouch!! That is one reason code coloring is *important*.
> 
> I remember working in Fortran and being confused why the compiler was
> not accepting the if statement, 'til we looked at the cards and saw it
> was  a "1F" statement.
>
In the later part of our IBM/370 assembly language class, a girl
was running the program she wrote for her assignment. One statement
did *not* seem to do anything. She spend at least 30 minutes trying
to figure out what was wrong. Turns out that there was a "*" in 
column one, and the statement was really a comment...and generated
*no* code.

This happened because she was punching her program on good ole' 80
column cards, in a student environment where many people used the
same keypunch machines. Often people would pick up the "blank"
cards and stick them back in the input hopper for the keypunch.
It was easy to miss the "*" punched in column one, because the upper
left corner of the cards was sliced off by design. So the unlucky
girl just happened to get a card that *already* had a "*" in column
one, when she punched up her program. Instant bug...

Another favorite beginner mistake was punching code past column 72
in FORTRAN IV. Sometimes, if you were unlucky, the FORTRAN code
would make sense *without* the part beyond column 72. Of course,
the results would *not* be what was expected.

--
+----------------------------------------------------------------+
|   Charles and Francis Richmond     richmond at plano dot net   |
+----------------------------------------------------------------+



From pythonguy at Hotpop.com  Wed Jul 16 13:48:46 2003
From: pythonguy at Hotpop.com (Anand Pillai)
Date: 16 Jul 2003 10:48:46 -0700
Subject: Python Quiz
References: <84fc4588.0307152253.20858619@posting.google.com> <3f15132a$0$13797$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net>
Message-ID: <84fc4588.0307160948.1481804b@posting.google.com>

Avid quizzers tend to answer a quiz sequentially. I dont expect a good
percentage to do a 'look-ahead'. Anyway for anybody reasonably aware of the
language the first question is a walk-through. Only from the 2nd onwards,
it is a challenge, it at all it is.

~Anand

"Guyon Mor?e" <gumuz at looze.net> wrote in message news:<3f15132a$0$13797$4d4ebb8e at news.nl.uu.net>...
> I spotted one funny 'mistake' .... the first question asks the name of the
> inventor of python.
> the second one gives you the answer :)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Anand Pillai" <pythonguy at Hotpop.com> wrote in message
> news:84fc4588.0307152253.20858619 at posting.google.com...
> > Hi Pythonistas,
> >
> > I have placed a quiz on Python on the trivia site www.funtrivia.com.
> > Here is the link.
> >
> > http://www.funtrivia.com/quizdetails.cfm?id=139672
> >
> > Looks like it is the first quiz on Python on this site.
> >
> > Please try it out if you like quizzing.
> > Let me know if there are any factual errors.
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > ~Anand



From robin.cull at pace.co.uk  Tue Jul 22 11:06:28 2003
From: robin.cull at pace.co.uk (Robin Cull)
Date: 22 Jul 2003 08:06:28 -0700
Subject: Iterating order of dict.items()
Message-ID: <16469f07.0307220706.5e2fe1e4@posting.google.com>

In a script I am writing, when I iterated over the items in a dict
using:

for x,y in mydict.items():
    doSomethingWith(x,y)

The order the items comes out in appears to be undefined.  I would
have thought that without any other sorting that the items would just
come out in the order that the dict was defined in, so:

mydict = {"one": 1, "two": 2, "three": 3, "four": 4}

would yield values: 

x     | y
------+--
one   | 1
two   | 2
three | 3 
four  | 4

However the order appears to be random say three, four, one, two for
example

So, is the order of dict.items() defined?  If so, what is that order? 
Is there any way to control the order my dict is iterated over?

Thanks a lot.  

Cheers, 

Robin



From david at kharmakhameleon.com  Tue Jul 29 01:01:59 2003
From: david at kharmakhameleon.com (David Connell)
Date: 28 Jul 2003 22:01:59 -0700
Subject: Mod_Python and ExpatPy
Message-ID: <32e181f9.0307282101.551c51a8@posting.google.com>

I'm porting a mod_python / XML app that has been running in Apache 1.3
and I am running into trouble with Apache 2.0.  Specifically, I'm
getting a restricted execution mode error when I import the ExpatPy
piece.  Any body know what, why or how to fix?

Thanks!



From ulope at gmx.de  Tue Jul 22 15:13:16 2003
From: ulope at gmx.de (Ulrich Petri)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 21:13:16 +0200
Subject: How is the execution order of 'x = z'? (also: Python FAQ 4.88)
References: <mailman.1058894315.10480.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bfk2cd$ctqfr$1@ID-67890.news.uni-berlin.de>

"Ames Andreas (MPA/DF)" <Andreas.Ames at tenovis.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:mailman.1058894315.10480.python-list at python.org...
> Hello,
>
> during execution of an assignment statement like
>
> x = y
> x = z # <--
>
> is y's reference count decremented (and therefore its __del__ possibly
> called) *before* x is bound to z (or is z bound to x, I don't know the
> correct wording) or *afterwards*?

No.
1. its not y's reference count that gets (possibly) decremented but
the-object-y-points-to
2. in this example noting will be decremented since y never goes out of
scope. Just by assining y to x you dont "invalidate" y.

Ciao Ulrich





From Simon.Wittber at perth.maptek.com.au  Tue Jul  1 03:58:44 2003
From: Simon.Wittber at perth.maptek.com.au (Simon Wittber (Maptek))
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 15:58:44 +0800
Subject: what has happened to the list?
Message-ID: <20E0F651F8B82F45ABCBACC58A2D995B032AC4@mexper1>

I've never seen it this quiet before...

Can anyone shed any light?




From mcfletch at rogers.com  Mon Jul 28 13:51:41 2003
From: mcfletch at rogers.com (Mike C. Fletcher)
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 13:51:41 -0400
Subject: Toronto Pythonistas, PyGTA meeting is tomorrow (Tuesday) @ 8pm
Message-ID: <3F2562AD.6090105@rogers.com>

Regular place.  You can find more details here...
    http://web.engcorp.com/pygta/wiki/NextMeeting

Don't forget!
Mike

_______________________________________
  Mike C. Fletcher
  Designer, VR Plumber, Coder
  http://members.rogers.com/mcfletch/







From mike at nospam.com  Thu Jul 24 18:11:46 2003
From: mike at nospam.com (Mike Rovner)
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 15:11:46 -0700
Subject: not able to run
References: <Pine.GSO.4.10.10307241552540.21283-100000@aoit.whs.edu>
Message-ID: <bfplgf$egn$1@main.gmane.org>

Joe Kmoch wrote:
> I've tried to install python2.2 on our Solaris 8 system using the
> package available on the sunfreeware.com site.  When I try to run
> python I get the following:
>
> # ls -al python2.2
> -rwxr-xr-x   1 bin      bin      4902360 Feb 17 20:44 python2.2
> # python2.2
> ld.so.1: python2.2: fatal: libstdc++.so.5: open failed: No such file
> or directory
> Killed

Take
ftp://ftp.sunfreeware.com/pub/freeware/sparc/8/libgcc-3.3-sol8-sparc-local.gz
which includes the files and links

libgcc_s.so    libstdc++.a   libstdc++.so    libstdc++.so.5.0.4
libgcc_s.so.1  libstdc++.la  libstdc++.so.5  sparcv9

./sparcv9:
libgcc_s.so.1        libstdc++.a   libstdc++.so    libstdc++.so.5.0.4
libgcc_s_sparcv9.so  libstdc++.la  libstdc++.so.5

Since these files are part of the gcc package, you may not need to install
it if you already have gcc 3.3 installed. This package is created because
some programs will not run without these libraries - installs in
/usr/local/lib.

Mike








From tim at lucurum.com  Thu Jul  3 17:39:33 2003
From: tim at lucurum.com (Tim Fitzpatrick)
Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 22:39:33 +0100
Subject: Problems with BILINEAR/BICUBIC filters in PIL
Message-ID: <3F04A295.6060704@lucurum.com>

Hi all

I'm fairly new to Python with PIL and I'm having some problems with the 
BILINEAR/BICUBIC filters when rotating and transforming images.

If I use resize() with NEAREST, BILINEAR and BICUBIC I can clearly see 
the difference in the filters.

But if I use rotate() or transform() then there is no difference, and 
they all look like NEAREST filtering.

Any ideas as to what I am doing wrong?

I am testing with a simple, small BMP image, so the mode is RGB.

I'm running Python 2.2.2 on Windows with PIL 1.1.4.

Help appreciated,

Tim




From danbmil99 at yahoo.com  Sun Jul 20 10:32:38 2003
From: danbmil99 at yahoo.com (dan)
Date: 20 Jul 2003 07:32:38 -0700
Subject: Tk mainloop()
References: <mailman.1058675670.11192.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <fbf8d8f2.0307200632.39967d90@posting.google.com>

re my prev response -- sleep() doesn't 'allow Tkinter thread to run',
but it might be necessary to let some system services or something run
in the background.  Actually I'm going to take it out and see what
happens.  Just calling youroot.update() should be enough to let
Tkinter do its thing.

quick comment: if Py is indeed going to take over the world of
programming, which I for one applaud, it needs to get its threading
stuff together.  Seems pretty funky right now.  Also Tk is nice but a
C-level native set of GUI commands that work across platforms but use
platform-native calls would be a great improvement.

Just my 2c -dbm

"Petr Evstratov" <tetra701 at mail.ru> wrote in message news:<mailman.1058675670.11192.python-list at python.org>...
> Hi, I have a question: how do you execute an arbitrary function in Tk fooBar.mainloop()?
> 
> I need to change the contents of a label every second, but I think I will also use some other functions as well...
> 
> I hope that someone will answer my question, because I have been looking for an answer for 3 days, asking people, searching Google... and still have not found anything useful...
>       
>                                    Thanks, Pete



From mhammond at skippinet.com.au  Tue Jul 15 02:36:34 2003
From: mhammond at skippinet.com.au (Mark Hammond)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 16:36:34 +1000
Subject: PyVariant anyone
In-Reply-To: <3f125990$1_2@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com>
References: <3f125990$1_2@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com>
Message-ID: <bf07dc$qj2$1@arachne.labyrinth.net.au>

Paul Keating wrote:
> I need to call a C++ DLL from Python, for which I'm planning to use
> boost.python. But the DLL has been written to a VBA interface, and this
> means it expects to get variable length arrays as Windows Variants instead
> of lists or tuples.
> 
> Anyone know how to construct a convincing Windows Variant in Python?

If you can link against pythoncom.dll, there are public functions there 
for it.

Mark




From yzzzzz at netcourrier.com  Fri Jul 18 06:00:00 2003
From: yzzzzz at netcourrier.com (yzzzzz)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 12:00:00 +0200
Subject: Using Unicode scripts
Message-ID: <3f17c520$0$7194$626a54ce@news.free.fr>

Hi,

I am writing my python programs using a Unicode text editor. The files are
encoded in UTF-8. Python's default encoding seems to be Latin 1 (ISO-8859-1)
or maybe Windows-1252 (CP1252) which aren't compatible with UTF-8.

For example, if I type print "?", it prints ??. If I use a unicode string:
a=u"?" and if I choose to encode it in UTF-8, I get 4 Latin 1 characters,
which makes sense if the interpreter thinks I typed in u"??".

How can I solve this problem?

Thank you

PS. I have no problem using Unicode strings in Python, I know how to
manipulate and convert them, I'm just looking for how to specify the default
encoding for the scripts I write.





From Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org  Sun Jul 27 19:24:38 2003
From: Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org (Scott David Daniels)
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 16:24:38 -0700
Subject: multithreading-problem
In-Reply-To: <bg1d38$m0o$01$2@news.t-online.com>
References: <bg0ubo$ujq$00$1@news.t-online.com> <3f243632$1@nntp0.pdx.net> <bg1d38$m0o$01$2@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <3f245f36@nntp0.pdx.net>

Diez B. Roggisch wrote:
> Ah, ok. That makes sense. Where do I find this curry-function, only in the
> book? It appears not to be a standard function.
Bottom of my message before, just type it in. (or go to ActiveState for
the class-based version).
The cookbook site:
    http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Python/Cookbook/
The curry recipe:
    http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/52549

-Scott

Example of use in IDLE (followed by code):

 >>> from my_util import curry
 >>> def f(a,b,c): return a*b+c

 >>> g = curry(3)
 >>> assert g(2,1) == 7 == f(3,2,1)
 >>>


file: my_util.py
from __future__ import nested_scopes

def curry(*_args, **_kwargs):
     """curry(f,<args>)(<more>) == f(<args>, <more>) (roughly).

     keyword args in the curry call can be overridden by keyword args
     in the later call; curry can be used to change defaults.
     """
     def result(*__args, **__kwargs):
         if _kwargs and __kwargs:
             kwargs = _kwargs.copy()
             kwargs.update(__kwargs)
         else:
             kwargs = _kwargs or __kwargs
         return _args[0](*(_args[1:]+__args), **kwargs)
     return result




From anton at vredegoor.doge.nl  Thu Jul 10 05:53:43 2003
From: anton at vredegoor.doge.nl (Anton Vredegoor)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 11:53:43 +0200
Subject: A story about Python... sort of
References: <mailman.1057554011.6652.python-list@python.org> <mailman.1057601112.30635.python-list@python.org> <O8lOa.805$sY2.237@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net> <wz3chgep96.fsf@nono.cs.uu.nl> <beintd$5kqlt$1@ID-169208.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <bejdnu$8t7$1@news.hccnet.nl>

"Greg Ewing (using news.cis.dfn.de)" <g2h5dqi002 at sneakemail.com>
wrote:

>Hmmm. So, if the universe is open and contains an infinite
>amount of matter, then we could solve chess eventually,
>but we might have to wait a while for the limits of the
>observable universe to expand sufficiently...

IMO it all depends on the amount of low hanging fruit in the universe.
For example if at some  early stage in the game the Queen could be
captured cleanly, the rest would be just minor details, unless some
careless move would give the game away of course.

For example at the department of informatics in Maastricht, there was
someone (Victor Allis IIRC) who had a habit of inviting people in a
most friendly and convincing way into his "torture chamber" where one
could play a game of "gobang" or "four in a row" or something like
that (it's a long time ago, I'm not sure about the details anymore)
against an innocent looking computer program.

As time went by the program got stronger and stronger and the faces of
the people leaving the room got more and more somber. Winning a game
just resulted in the program not making the same mistake next time :-)

In the end he managed to prove that the program was invincible, not
because he could generate the whole game tree, but because he could
maneuver the game into some position that was always winnable for the
computer.

Anton



From robin.cull at pace.co.uk  Wed Jul 30 18:58:38 2003
From: robin.cull at pace.co.uk (Robin Cull)
Date: 30 Jul 2003 15:58:38 -0700
Subject: Is there a standard module library function to access /etc/passwd or /etc/group
References: <16469f07.0307300416.351ba776@posting.google.com> <m2vftkw5um.fsf@host200-null.null.bellsouth.net>
Message-ID: <16469f07.0307301458.59e73736@posting.google.com>

Heather Coppersmith <me at privacy.net> wrote in message news:<m2vftkw5um.fsf at host200-null.null.bellsouth.net>...
> On 30 Jul 2003 05:16:43 -0700,
> robin.cull at pace.co.uk (Robin Cull) wrote:
> 
> > ...  Something that gives access to the C standard libarary
> > functions get[pw|group]ent(), for example ...
> 
> Right out of the table of contents of Python's Library Reference:
> 
>     8.2 pwd -- The password database
>     8.3 grp -- The group database

Those'll be the ones! :)

> 
> When all else fails, read the manual....  ;-)

I assure you I did, in fact it baffles me that I missed "pwd" in the
global module index when I was scanning for "passwd".  Then I went off
on a complete tangent and started looking through "os" and "posix" for
some reason.  A case of "can't see the wood for the trees" I think!

I'll look harder next time ;)

Cheers, 

Robin



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Thu Jul 31 15:56:24 2003
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 15:56:24 -0400
Subject: RELEASED Python 2.3 (final)
References: <mailman.1059523523.23534.python-list@python.org> <3f27bacd$0$49113$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl> <c76ff6fc.0307301323.62f3ccd6@posting.google.com> <bg9hgu$k31$1@panix2.panix.com> <38ec68a6.0307301828.7310e01b@posting.google.com> <slrnbih0m0.vpm.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local> <3f28e998$0$49107$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <4V2dnfpICor06bSiXTWJiQ@comcast.com>

"Irmen de Jong" <irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl> wrote in message
news:3f28e998$0$49107$e4fe514c at news.xs4all.nl...
> Ben Finney wrote:
> > Or 'totally mega kudos, d00dZ' depending which decade you're
living in.
>
> rather, "Thanx 2 all developers 4 ur 1337 c0D1ng Skilzz!!!"

Not being (001 with 1337speak, I googled '1337'
and found this site (#12) that deigned to explain:

http://www.1337-online.com/whatis1337.php






From ben at dadsetan.com  Thu Jul  3 22:27:21 2003
From: ben at dadsetan.com (Behrang Dadsetan)
Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 03:27:21 +0100
Subject: FYI:  pyBoards.com
References: <191e20c8.0307031711.42d4e46b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3F04E609.2010500@dadsetan.com>

A bit a pitty the message board system is php based..

Does anyone know about message board systems written in python?

Ben.

Kyle Babich wrote:
> I have just opened pyBoards.com, a community for Python programmers. 
> Please stop by and check it out.
> 
> http://www.pyBoards.com
> 
> Tell me what you think,
> Kyle




From newgene at bigfoot.com  Mon Jul 28 12:53:26 2003
From: newgene at bigfoot.com (newgene)
Date: 28 Jul 2003 09:53:26 -0700
Subject: howto redirect stdout/stderr into a wxPython textctrl?
Message-ID: <a50631f6.0307280853.68f9bc11@posting.google.com>

Hi, group,
    I guess it is a simple question for you, but it puzzles me for a
while.
    I use a wxTextCtrl in my application for output result and any
exception msg. I know I can add new msg onto wxTextCtrl by WriteText()
method. But I have a function imported from another module and in this
function all results are output by "print". I am wondering if I can
redirect stdout and stderr into the wxTextCtrl object, so that all
output from that function will be shown up on wxTextCtrl box and I
don't need modify the current code for that function.

Thank you.


Chunlei



From hwlgw at hotmail.com  Thu Jul 17 11:53:23 2003
From: hwlgw at hotmail.com (Will Stuyvesant)
Date: 17 Jul 2003 08:53:23 -0700
Subject: IMAP examples
References: <mailman.1058404406.14305.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cb035744.0307170753.3c32c1c9@posting.google.com>

> > I can't seem to find any decent examples on how to use the 
> > IMAPLIB module. the docs aren't that sophisticated 
> > unfortunately.... the cookbook entry comes close, but i'd 
> > like to know if someone knows some nice examples somewhere.
> 
> [Tony Meyer]
> What do you mean by decent?
> 
> Spambayes (http://spambayes.org) has an IMAP filter, which is an example of
> using imaplib.  Whether it's decent or not, well... ;)

I think he means by decent examples:

 - concise

 - clear

 - showing general useful usage

 - showing peculiar usage in the case of warts

Looking into the (not concise) spambayes code for an example how to
use IMAP is *not* like looking at a decent example.  It is more like a
last resort.  Also looking at the Python Cookbook examples doesn't
help much because they are either not concise or too simplistic or
etc.  Designing decent examples is hard work.



From http  Fri Jul 11 14:16:22 2003
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 11 Jul 2003 11:16:22 -0700
Subject: Securing 'pickle'
References: <pan.2003.07.11.01.20.47.998070@127.0.0.1> <slrnbgs4hc.hop.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local> <7x1xwxu98y.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <3F0E1875.574DC6D7@alcyone.com> <7xk7ap3j6z.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <3F0EE2E1.1C30CEA4@hotmail.com> <mailman.1057945218.7595.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7x7k6pvsi1.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Nagy L?szl? Zsolt <nagylzs at freemail.hu> writes:
> >Or is the checksum stored on the server, in some form of lookup
> >dictionary keyed by some user session identifier?
> >
> I think he wanted to write a digital signature instead. Right?

I used "cryptographic checksum" in a broad sense.  More specifically
the suggestion is to use a secret-key authentication code like HMAC-MD5.



From skip at pobox.com  Tue Jul 15 22:56:07 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 21:56:07 -0500
Subject: Library for pop over ssl?
In-Reply-To: <Xns93BA29128EBB2JanC@213.118.75.80>
References: <bersm5$88gse$1@ID-165840.news.uni-berlin.de>
        <Xns93BA29128EBB2JanC@213.118.75.80>
Message-ID: <16148.48839.42687.918488@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    >> Hi, I know of poplib, which does what I need except that it doesn't
    >> support SSL encryption. imaplib has SSL-support. But I want it with
    >> pop3. Is there a library available that does this or do I have to
    >> implement it myself?

    JanC> You can always use stunnel to SSL-ize a "normal" protocol...
    JanC> <http://www.stunnel.org/>

Doesn't stunnel only work for servers?

Skip




From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Tue Jul 15 16:55:39 2003
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 15:55:39 -0500
Subject: String Manipulation
In-Reply-To: <2c6431ab.0307151223.4173c4ee@posting.google.com> (lamar_air@hotmail.com's
 message of "15 Jul 2003 13:23:09 -0700")
References: <2c6431ab.0307151223.4173c4ee@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <m2vfu31pdg.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

>>>>> "lamar" == lamar air <lamar_air at hotmail.com> writes:

    lamar> I need a piece of code that takes a string like this
    lamar> string1 = "aaa/bbb/ccc/dd" and extracts a string
    lamar> containting the character after the last "/"

One good way to do this is to split the string on the '/' character,
which creates a list of strings

  >>> string1 = "aaa/bbb/ccc/dd"
  >>> parts = string1.split('/')
  >>> parts
  ['aaa', 'bbb', 'ccc', 'dd']

Now you just want to get the last element of this list; python allows
you to index with -1 to get the last element, -2 to get the second to
last, etc...

  >>> parts[-1]
  'dd'

JDH




From intentionally at blank.co.uk  Tue Jul 15 01:31:08 2003
From: intentionally at blank.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 06:31:08 +0100
Subject: anything like C++ references?
References: <sag3hv4vf884ed7ouu5cv8ofnopp9j1t12@4ax.com> <bet1sd$ibl$1@panix3.panix.com> <sfa4hvkq1j7rg1iga5j3tk2cc4qpr6e5qk@4ax.com> <beueis$b1d$1@panix3.panix.com> <78c6hvgu599ku5denkkl7pgmd4n13t460i@4ax.com> <roy-204535.19175914072003@reader1.panix.com> <3F135328.89C1F89C@alcyone.com> <hmq6hv8amht3kis59pqgab5mbqekc5675c@4ax.com> <v3u6hv0tna44h5bjd38fkqjma5r437fv3k@4ax.com> <pau6hv4p7ticslc32d4bt1rcap6kbd57jf@4ax.com> <3F138ADC.4BF9DB3A@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <o147hvodkhn47l3cl6n5vkv51bb44f1hb7@4ax.com>

On Mon, 14 Jul 2003 22:02:20 -0700, Erik Max Francis <max at alcyone.com>
wrote:

>Stephen Horne wrote:
>
>> True enough. The issue of how assignment is represented is trivial and
>> unimportant in the scheme of things.
>
>Then I retract (or at least soften) my earlier comment; I thought you
>were suggesting that it was a significant issue.

No need - any confusion is my fault. When I first made the point, I
should have made it clear that I was being overpedantic and not really
serious.

Looking back, the point I made about '+' in particular should not have
been made - at least not without a healthy dose of smileys or
something.

Sorry. I hope no offense was caused.




From matthias.oberlaender at VOID.daimlerchrysler.com  Mon Jul 28 02:44:37 2003
From: matthias.oberlaender at VOID.daimlerchrysler.com (Matthias Oberlaender)
Date: 28 Jul 2003 06:44:37 GMT
Subject: Low resolution of cpu times returned by getrusage
Message-ID: <bg2gol$9hc$1@news.sns-felb.debis.de>

My problem is that cpu times returned by getrusage seem to be rounded to 10 
ms units (so also does time.clock).

I never noticed such a low resolution in previous versions. Since I have not 
found similar reports on the web, it probably  is not a general bug in 
(rather outdated) version 2.2.1.  Any idea what could be wrong with this 
peculiar installation? 
 
Thanks a lot!

Python 2.2.1 (#3, May  3 2002, 16:42:06) 
[GCC 2.95.3 20010315 (SuSE)] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import resource
>>> print resource.getrusage(resource.RUSAGE_SELF)
(0.01, 0.040000000000000001, 0, 0, 0, 0, 186, 410, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0)
>>> for i in range(1000000): pass
... 
>>> print resource.getrusage(resource.RUSAGE_SELF)
(0.26999999999999996, 0.059999999999999998, 0, 0, 0, 0, 4116, 414, 0, 0, 0, 
0, 0, 0, 0, 0)

--
 ____  __  _/_/ . 
( / / ( /  / / /  

=====================================================================
Matthias Oberlaender, DaimlerChrysler AG, Research Center Ulm
RIC/AP (Machine Perception)
Wilhelm-Runge-Str. 11,  P.O. Box 2360,  89013 Ulm, Germany
Phone: +49 731 505 2354       Fax: +49 731 505 4105
Email: matthias.oberlaender at VOID.daimlerchrysler.com
=====================================================================




From johnroth at ameritech.net  Tue Jul  1 12:44:02 2003
From: johnroth at ameritech.net (John Roth)
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 12:44:02 -0400
Subject: Suggesting for overloading the assign operator
References: <6f03c4a5.0306301931.3f15fbb7@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <vg3eghr5kj1sd8@news.supernews.com>

"Rim" <rimbalaya at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:6f03c4a5.0306301931.3f15fbb7 at posting.google.com...
> Hi,
>
> I have been thinking about how to overload the assign operation '='.
> In many cases, I wanted to provide users of my packages a natural
> interface to the extended built-in types I created for them, but the
> assign operator is always forcing them to "type cast" or coerce the
> result when they do a simple assign for the purpose of setting the
> value of a variable.

Use a property. Changing the semantics of the assignment
statement (NOT assignment operator) is not going to happen.

Properties are new in Python 2.2 (which is around a year
old by now.) They enable you to have getter and setter
methods with an interface that looks like an instance
variable.

John Roth





From bokr at oz.net  Mon Jul 21 01:55:01 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 21 Jul 2003 05:55:01 GMT
Subject: Unfortunate exception on dict item assignment (and why aren't slices   hashable?)
References: <mailman.1058752171.10243.python-list@python.org> <3F1B664D.2AC5A585@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <bffv7l$tt2$0@216.39.172.122>

On Sun, 20 Jul 2003 21:04:29 -0700, Erik Max Francis <max at alcyone.com> wrote:

>Jeff Epler wrote:
>
>> I'd have expected something like 'TypeError: unslicable type'
>> meaning that you can't slice a dict, not that slice()s aren't
>> hashable.
>
>Slicing is not a feature of the mapping interface; it's not entirely
>clear what it should mean.  All mapping interfaces need are keys that
>are hashable; it doesn't make any kind of requirements about how those
>keys related to each other.  So slicing a mapping interface is something
>that simply may not make any sense at all in some cases.
>
>If you really _do_ want to take a range out of a dictionary and know
>that it has some meaning, you should probably do the slicing on the
>_list of keys_ (D.keys()) -- because there is no concept of an ordering
>of keys in a dictionary.
>
It might be interesting to define a dict slice
as a lexicographic slice -- e.g.,

====< slicedict.py >=========================================
class SD(dict):
    from types import SliceType
    def __getitem__(self, i):
        if isinstance(i, self.SliceType):
            keys = self.keys()
            keys.sort()
            try: start = keys.index(i.start)
            except ValueError: start = 0
            try: stop = keys.index(i.stop)
            except: stop = len(keys)
            step = i.step or 1
            return SD([(k, dict.__getitem__(self, k))
                for k in [keys[j] for j in xrange(start,stop,step)]])
        return dict.__getitem__(self, i)
=============================================================
 
 >>> import slicedict
 >>> sd = slicedict.SD(zip([chr(c) for c in range(ord('a'),ord('z')+1)],range(26)))
 >>> sd['c':'g']
 {'c': 2, 'e': 4, 'd': 3, 'f': 5}
 >>> sd['c':'g':2]
 {'c': 2, 'e': 4}
 >>> sd['c':'h':2]
 {'c': 2, 'e': 4, 'g': 6}
 >>> sd[:'c']
 {'a': 0, 'b': 1}
 >>> sd[:'w']
 {'a': 0, 'c': 2, 'b': 1, 'e': 4, 'd': 3, 'g': 6, 'f': 5, 'i': 8, 'h': 7, 'k': 10, 'j': 9, 'm': 1
 2, 'l': 11, 'o': 14, 'n': 13, 'q': 16, 'p': 15, 's': 18, 'r': 17, 'u': 20, 't': 19, 'v': 21}
 >>> sd['w':]
 {'y': 24, 'x': 23, 'z': 25, 'w': 22}
 >>> sd[:]
 {'a': 0, 'c': 2, 'b': 1, 'e': 4, 'd': 3, 'g': 6, 'f': 5, 'i': 8, 'h': 7, 'k': 10, 'j': 9, 'm': 1
 2, 'l': 11, 'o': 14, 'n': 13, 'q': 16, 'p': 15, 's': 18, 'r': 17, 'u': 20, 't': 19, 'w': 22, 'v'
 : 21, 'y': 24, 'x': 23, 'z': 25}
 >>> sd[::5]
 {'a': 0, 'p': 15, 'u': 20, 'f': 5, 'k': 10, 'z': 25}


Regards,
Bengt Richter



From 2002 at weholt.org  Fri Jul  4 12:36:00 2003
From: 2002 at weholt.org (Thomas Weholt)
Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 18:36:00 +0200
Subject: Kylix reality (was: Python is a gem, you need to keep pushing it ....)
References: <mailman.1057323066.3751.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <82iNa.10874$Hb.190607@news4.e.nsc.no>

My last attempt at Kylix was awful. It was version 1.0, don't know what the
current version is. But the IDE felt messed up. Windows kept disappearing
behind other windows and to just it running we had to patch and screw around
with a bunch of things. A major dissapointment.


"delphiro" <delphiro at zonnet.nl> wrote in message
news:mailman.1057323066.3751.python-list at python.org...
> > How is Kylix "nasty and not-so-friendly"?  I
> > generally think of it as rather polished and
> > useful.
>
> We (the company I work for) have a lot of problems with Kylix.
> On RedHat 9 debugging threads crashes Kylix, on Debian
> Woody the C++ compiler crashes with any compilation and there
> are more crashes, even on 'certified' linux disrtibutions.
>
> It just seems like Borland only supports older Linux distributions
> and does not want to release patches for newer RedHat / Suse /
> Mandrake releases. Apart from that I think it should work on
> *any* linux distribution not just the 'major' ones.
>
> The IDE also is kind of sloppy (based on Wine) and feels akward
> when you are used to the Delphi IDE (there seems to be a slight delay
> between a keypress and the action that should happen, even on a PIII-900).
> Personaly I think the Kylix IDE could improve a lot if the code was
native.
>
> Don't get me wrong, I think it is great that Borland takes linux
> seriously and compiled Kylix applications run perfectly but
> the product needs a lot of polishing before becoming
> as smooth as it is for the Windows platforms.
>
> Rob
>





From bokr at oz.net  Fri Jul 25 14:00:03 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 25 Jul 2003 18:00:03 GMT
Subject: Downloading Python files
References: <slrnbi2j1n.ra.luke@stclair.homelinux.net>
Message-ID: <bfrr73$uva$0@216.39.172.122>

On Fri, 25 Jul 2003 15:26:49 +0000 (UTC), Luke StClair <luke at stclair.homelinux.net> wrote:

>Only marginally belonging in this newsgroup... but oh well.
>
>I've just started writing in python, and I want to make the files
>available on the web.  So I did the standard <a
>href="mypath/myfile.py"> and not surprisingly, it displays like a
>webpage, but just the code.  If I gzip it, and then link to the new
>file, it will download, but its so small I don't want it zipped.  
>How can I make this into a downloadable
>file SIMPLY?  The other thread seems a bit complicated...
>
>Thanks
If the user has .py set up for automatic shell execution of .py files, the browser
should warn of security risk and provide an option to save to disk. If the user doesn't,
then it may show as text as you describe. If that's already happened, s/he should be
able to do file>save as ... and save as a .py file somewhere. If the user is still
looking at your page with the highlighted link, s/he should be able to right-click the link
and get an option to "save link as ..." You could just tell the user about that
in association with your link(s), e.g., with the following (untested!) HTML:

Right-click <a href="mypath/myfile.py">this</a> to save myfile.py to disk.<br>
Left-click <a href="mypath/myfile.py">this</a> to open myfile.py according to your browser settings.

Note that it's really the same link, just different instructions.
I guess for different browsers YMMV.

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From englim at pc.jaring.my  Thu Jul 17 10:58:41 2003
From: englim at pc.jaring.my (lec)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 22:58:41 +0800
Subject: Reading from serial port & writing to X console
Message-ID: <3F16B9A1.2000602@pc.jaring.my>

Hi,

I'm trying to write a program to read from the serial port & write
whatever that is read to the X console (/dev/tty7).
For X to recognize the characters sent, I believe you have to send
"scancodes".

Any suggestion is appreciated.

This is my attempt which doesn't work:

#!/usr/bin/python

scancodes = 
[[0,0,0,0],[0,0,0,0],[0,0,0,0],[0,0,0,0],[0,0,0,0],[0,0,0,0],[0,0,0,0],[0,0,0,0],[0,0,0,0],[0,0,0,0],[0,0,0,0],[0,0,0,0],[0,0,0,0],[0,0x1c,0x9c,0],[0,0,0,0],[0,0,0,0],[0,0,0,0],[0,0,0,0],[0,0,0,0],[0,0,0,0],[0,0,0,0],[0,0,0,0],[0,0,0,0],[0,0,0,0],[0,0,0,0],[0,0,0,0],[0,0,0,0],[0,0,0,0],[0,0,0,0],[0,0,0,0],[0,0,0,0],[0,0,0,0],[0,0x39,0xb9,0],[0,0,0,0],[0,0,0,0],[0,0,0,0],[0,0,0,0],[0,0,0,0],[0,0,0,0],[0,0,0,0],[0,0,0,0],[0,0,0,0],[0,0,0,0],[0,0,0,0],[0,0,0,0],[0,0,0,0],[0,0,0,0],[0,0,0,0],[0, 
0x0b, 0x8b, 0],[0, 2, 130, 0],[0, 3, 131, 0],[0, 4, 132, 0],[0, 5, 133, 
0],[0, 6, 134, 0],[0, 7, 135, 0],[0, 8, 136, 0],[0, 9, 137, 0],[0, 10, 
138, 
0],[0,0,0,0],[0,0,0,0],[0,0,0,0],[0,0,0,0],[0,0,0,0],[0,0,0,0],[0,0,0,0],[0x2A,0x1E,0x9E,0xAA],[0x2A,0x30,0xb0,0xAA],[0x2A,0x2e,0xae,0xAA],[0x2A,0x20,0xa0,0xAA],[0x2A,0x12,0x92,0xAA],[0x2A,0x21,0xa1,0xAA],[0x2A,0x22,0xa2,0xAA],[0x2A,0x23,0xa3,0xAA],[0x2A,0x17,0x97,0xAA],[0x2A,0x24,0xa4,0xAA],[0x2A,0x25,0xa5,0xAA],[0x2A,0x26,0xa6,0xAA],[0x2A,0x32,0xb2,0xAA],[0x2A,0x31,0xb1,0xAA],[0x2A,0x18,0x98,0xAA],[0x2A,0x19,0x99,0xAA],[0x2A,0x10,0x90,0xAA],[0x2A,0x13,0x93,0xAA],[0x2A,0x1f,0x9f,0xAA],[0x2A,0x14,0x94,0xAA],[0x2A,0x16,0x96,0xAA],[0x2A,0x2f,0xaf,0xAA],[0x2A,0x11,0x91,0xAA],[0x2A,0x2d,0xad,0xAA],[0x2A,0x15,0x95,0xAA],[0x2A,0x2c,0xac,0],[0,0,0,0],[0,0,0,0],[0,0,0,0],[0,0,0,0],[0,0,0,0],[0,0,0,0],[0,0x1E,0x9E,0],[0,0x30,0xb0,0],[0,0x2e,0xae,0],[0,0x20,0xa0,0],[0,0x12,0x92,0],[0,0x21,0xa1,0],[0,0x22,0xa2,0],[0,0x23,0xa3,0],[0,0x17,0x97,0],[0,0x24,0xa4,0],[0,0x25,0xa5,0],[0,0x26,0xa6,0],[0,0x32,0xb2,0],[0,0x31,0xb1,0],[0,0x18,0x98,0],[0,0x19,0x99,0],[0,0x10,0x90,0],[0,0x13,0x93,0],[0,0x1f,0x9f,0],[0,0x14,0x94,0],[0,0x16,0x96,0],[0,0x2f,0xaf,0],[0,0x11,0x91,0],[0,0x2d,0xad,0],[0,0x15,0x95,0],[0,0x2c,0xac,0],[0,0,0,0],[0,0,0,0],[0,0,0,0],[0,0,0,0],[0,0,0,0],[0,0,0,0],[0,0,0,0]]


def readserial(dev='/dev/ttyS0'):
    p = open(dev)
    line = ''
    line = char = ''
    while char <> chr(13):
        char = p.read(1)
        if char <> '':
            line = line + char
    print line

    # write to /dev/tty7 which is console for X
    tty7 = open('/dev/tty7', 'w')
    #import FCNTL, fcntl
    #import termios, TERMIOS

    for ch in line:
        for ch1 in scancodes[ ord(ch)]:
            if ch1:
                tty7.write("%c"%chr(ch1))

    tty7.close()
    p.close()
   


if __name__ == '__main__':

    while 1:
        readserial()







From nirina at mail.blueline.mg  Sat Jul 19 04:53:17 2003
From: nirina at mail.blueline.mg (Raseliarison nirinA)
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 11:53:17 +0300
Subject: If stereo WAV file's both channels are identical, change format to mono for all files recursively
Message-ID: <00e701c34dd4$636d0340$f7a2383e@raseliar>

hi all,
i found an unanswered question at
http://www.faqts.com/knowledge_base/index.phtml/fid/538
with possible response below. i've tried to send it at
faqt.python but can't figure out how to edit the page. so i put it here.
i want to kwon if this can convert all wave file. is there other
encodage than 8 or 16 bits for .wav files?
any bug and comment are welcome

--
nirinA

#--------------stereo2mono-R.py---------------
'''stereo2mono-R.py
convert stereo to mono recursively
usage : python stereo2mono-R.py path-directory
'''

import os, sys

from stereo2mono import *

directory = sys.argv[1]
os.chdir(directory)

for name in os.listdir('.'):
    if name.endswith('.wav'):
        w = Stereo2Mono(name)
        if w.isStereo() == 1:
            print '%s is in stereo'%name
            print 'Check for %s samples in the audio frame'%SAMPLING
            w.CompareSampling()
            print 'Both channels seem to be identical'
            print 'Check all data frames and save to mono file'
            w.CompareAndSave()
            print 'Done'
        else:
            print '%s is already in mono'%name

    else:
        pass


#-----stereo2mono.py-----------
'''stereo2mono.py
convert a stereo wave to mono
if both channels are identical

http://www.faqts.com/knowledge_base/view.phtml/aid/12121/fid/538
'''

import wave, sys

FORMAT = {'11':'1b','12':'1h','21':'2b','22':'2h'}
# format for wave files encoded in 8 and 16 bits

SAMPLING = 128

class Stereo2Mono:
    '''open the wave file and get its parameters
        compare the channels
        it will be done in two steps.
        samples are first compared,
        then if the samples are identical
        further comparison is performed
        and the mono wave file created
        '''
    def __init__(self, name):
        self.name = name
        self.w = wave.open(self.name)

    def isStereo(self):
        if self.w.getnchannels() == 2:
            return 1
        else:
            return 0

    def format_in(self):
        self.fmt = ''.join((str(self.w.getnchannels()),
                            str(self.w.getsampwidth())))
        return FORMAT.get(self.fmt)

    def format_out(self):
        self.fmt = ''.join(('1',
                            str(self.w.getsampwidth())))
        return FORMAT.get(self.fmt)

    def Parameters(self):
        return self.w.getparams()

    def Compare(self, amplitude):
        if amplitude[0] == amplitude[1]:
            return 1
        else:
            return 0

    def CompareSampling(self):
        for s in range(0, self.Parameters()[3],SAMPLING):
            if self.Compare(wave.struct.unpack(
                self.format_in(),self.w.readframes(1))) == 1:
                pass
            else:
                print 'channels at %s are not identical,abort!'%s
                #sys.exit()
        print 'Samples pass test'

    def CompareAndSave(self):
        '''Compare all and save to mono'''
        self.w.rewind()
        self.chars = '/-\\|'
        self.Save = wave.open(self.name.split('.')[0]+
                              '-mono'+'.wav','w')
        self.newparams = (1,
                     self.Parameters()[1],
                     self.Parameters()[2],
                     self.Parameters()[3],
                     self.Parameters()[4],
                     self.Parameters()[5])

        self.Save.setparams(self.newparams)

        for i in range(1, self.Parameters()[3]+1):
            self.UnPack = wave.struct.unpack(
                self.format_in(), self.w.readframes(1))
            if self.Compare(self.UnPack) == 1:
                self.Save.writeframes(wave.struct.pack(
                    self.format_out(), self.UnPack[0]))
                sys.stdout.write(chr(13))
                sys.stdout.write('%s %i/%i     ' % (
                    self.chars[i % 4], i, self.Parameters()[3]))
                sys.stdout.flush()
            else:
                print 'Data at index %s are not the same, abort!'%i
        self.w.close()
        self.Save.close()

def main():
    try:
        name = sys.argv[1]

        w = Stereo2Mono(name)
        if w.isStereo() == 1:
            print '%s is in stereo'%name
            print 'Check for %s samples in the audio frame'%SAMPLING
            w.CompareSampling()
            print 'Both channels seem to be identical'
            print 'Check all data frames and save to mono file'
            w.CompareAndSave()
            print 'Done'
        else:
            print '%s is already in mono'%name

    except:
        print '''usage : python stereo2mono.py the-stereo-wavefile.wav\n
        the wave file must be encoded in 8 or 16 bits'''

if __name__ == '__main__':
    main()

# 030718 19:41:48 nirinA








From webmaster at beyond-thoughts.com  Sat Jul 12 17:53:06 2003
From: webmaster at beyond-thoughts.com (Christoph Becker-Freyseng)
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 23:53:06 +0200
Subject: Python Global Constant; __builtins__
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1057737013.30246.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1057737013.30246.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3F108342.4020408@beyond-thoughts.com>

Hello,

Maybe I missunderstood the OP. So I said that __builtins__ might be 
useful. I know that you should not use it in most cases because it makes 
code less readable (where is xy defined?) and might cause unwanted 
side-effects.
However e.g. if you're programming a big framework like Zope it is useful.

cbf







From drs at ecp.cc  Wed Jul  2 03:36:19 2003
From: drs at ecp.cc (drs)
Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 07:36:19 GMT
Subject: My Big Dict.
References: <mailman.1057119003.11991.python-list@python.org> <20030702073735.40293ba2.christophe.delord@free.fr>
Message-ID: <TXvMa.9902$BM.3065756@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com>

"Christophe Delord" <christophe.delord at free.fr> wrote in message
news:20030702073735.40293ba2.christophe.delord at free.fr...
> Hello,
>
> On Wed, 2 Jul 2003 00:13:26 -0400, Xavier wrote:
>
> > Greetings,
> >
> > (do excuse the possibly comical subject text)
> >
> > I need advice on how I can convert a text db into a dict.  Here is an
> > example of what I need done.
> >
> > some example data lines in the text db goes as follows:
> >
> > CODE1!DATA1 DATA2, DATA3
> > CODE2!DATA1, DATA2 DATA3
> >
> > As you can see, the lines are dynamic and the data are not alike, they
> > change in permission values (but that's obvious in any similar
> > situation)
> >
> > Any idea on how I can convert 20,000+ lines of the above into the
> > following protocol for use in my code?:
> >
> > TXTDB = {'CODE1': 'DATA1 DATA2, DATA3', 'CODE2': 'DATA1, DATA2 DATA3'}
> >
>
> If your data is in a string you can use a regular expression to parse
> each line, then the findall method returns a list of tuples containing
> the key and the value of each item. Finally the dict class can turn this
> list into a dict. For example:

and you can kill a fly with a sledgehammer.  why not

f = open('somefile.txt')
d = {}
l = f.readlines()
for i in l:
    a,b = i.split('!')
    d[a] = b.strip()

or am i missing something obvious? (b/t/w the above parsed 20000+ lines on a
celeron 500 in less than a second.)

-d





From vze4rx4y at verizon.net  Thu Jul 24 15:59:59 2003
From: vze4rx4y at verizon.net (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 19:59:59 GMT
Subject: Mystery Theater New Style Classes
References: <mailman.1059062857.29503.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3VWTa.23726$0F4.18360@nwrdny02.gnilink.net>

"Bob Gailer"
> Predict the output:
>
> class A(int):
>      classval = 99
>      def __init__(self, val = 0):
>          if val:
>              self = val
>          else:
>              self = A.classval
> a=A(3)
> b=A()
> print a,b

The output would be 3 and 0.

I think the point is that the value binding occurs
in the int.__new__ classmethod and that self
already has its value when __init__ is called.
Assigning the local variable, self, has no effect.

The other tidbit is that int() with no args returns zero.


Raymond Hettinger





From guettler at thomas-guettler.de  Mon Jul 21 07:07:47 2003
From: guettler at thomas-guettler.de (Thomas =?ISO-8859-15?Q?G=FCttler?=)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 13:07:47 +0200
Subject: Directory Structure for Distutils
References: <bfgc58$edkhi$1@ID-63505.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <bfghi3$dqlq7$1@ID-63505.news.uni-berlin.de>

Thomas G?ttler wrote:

> Hi!
> 
> What is the best directory structure for python modules?
> 
> ...

(Replying to myself)

I downloaded the source of distutils and took it as an example.

One thing is still unclear:
How can I copy non python files into the destination?
There is a directory called "gif" which needs to be in the
directory of the my module.


 thomas





From jjl at pobox.com  Sun Jul 20 13:28:11 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 20 Jul 2003 18:28:11 +0100
Subject: object as a reserved keyword
References: <vtnkhvoqcet2bgmeidae1st46m7q9sr1p3@4ax.com> <7dokhvgv12fdbha8sun6c6q658cth5uq2c@4ax.com> <ad052e5c.0307200731.5b573c77@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <87adb9f6qc.fsf@pobox.com>

danb_83 at yahoo.com (Dan Bishop) writes:
[...]
> When I write in other languages and need a meaningless variable name,
> I tend to use an abbreviation for the variable's type.
> 
>    public void foo(String str) {/* ... */}
>    public void foo(List list) {/* ... */}
> 
> As you can see, this convention doesn't carry over very well to
> Python.

Which is frequently a good thing, I think.  Most of the time one does
this, it's (bad) laziness.  Better to think of a name that describes
more than the type.

People do often use names ending in 's' for iterators (including
sequences), which is useful for ease of reading:

foos = [Foo(1), Foo(2), Foo(3)]
for foo in foos:
    print foo

(breaking the rule about naming things after their type there, of
course! -- but I have the excuse that there's no meaning *there* to
use when picking names in that made-up example)

Also, I often use the name 'text' where you write 'str' above.


John



From psycho_78 at libero.libero.it  Thu Jul 31 09:08:07 2003
From: psycho_78 at libero.libero.it (Simone Finotti)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 15:08:07 +0200
Subject: [Newbie] FAQ?
Message-ID: <bgb4a9$cl0$1@news.newsland.it>

hi all,
is there a FAQ for this NG?

TIA,
Simone

-- 

questo articolo e` stato inviato via web dal servizio gratuito 
http://www.newsland.it/news segnala gli abusi ad abuse at newsland.it





From jamie at nospam.net  Mon Jul  7 00:03:29 2003
From: jamie at nospam.net (Jamie)
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 16:03:29 +1200
Subject: Problems with py2exe for python 2.3 beta
Message-ID: <bearnh$iip$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>

Hi all,

I have a wxPython application that I'm packaging with py2exe. I've
encountered a couple of problems with the latest py2exe with the latest
python and wxPython releases, and was wondering if any of you have had a
similar experience. The version for python 2.2 works like a charm.

- I've included "-p encodings" in the command line flags, but still get the
"no codec search functions registered" error at runtime.
- py2exe is now including tcl files as dependencies, whereas these weren't
required in the python 2.2 version.

Also, I was hoping to use the archived executable to do imports with the new
zip import feature - is there any reason why this wouldn't work as opposed
to importing it from a regular zip file?

Many thanks,

Jamie





From bokr at oz.net  Sun Jul 20 19:44:00 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 20 Jul 2003 23:44:00 GMT
Subject: List of declared variables in interactive Python session?
References: <bfc9t5$ued$1@news3.tilbu1.nb.home.nl> <20030720143606.18124.00000262@mb-m15.aol.com> <3F1AEAFB.3C62F613@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <bff9g0$l6p$0@216.39.172.122>

On Sun, 20 Jul 2003 15:18:19 -0400, Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:

>"Raymond Arthur St. Marie II of III" wrote:
>> 
>> >>> vars( )
>> 
>> {'d': 'pywin', '__builtins__': <module '__builtin__' (built-in)>, '__name__':
>> '__main__', 'pywin': <module 'pywin' from
>> 'C:\PYTHON22\lib\site-packages\Pythonwin\pywin\__init__.pyc'>, '__doc__': None}
>> 
>> >>> for v in vars(): print v
>> ...
>> 
>> Traceback (most recent call last):
>>   File "<interactive input>", line 1, in ?
>> RuntimeError: dictionary changed size during iteration
>
>for v in vars().copy(): print v
>
>works fine...
>
I sometimes find it handy to leave out underscore items:

 >>> [name for name in dir() if not name.startswith('_')]
 []
 >>> x=123
 >>> [name for name in dir() if not name.startswith('_')]
 ['name', 'x']

vs.

 >>> dir()
 ['__builtins__', '__doc__', '__name__', 'name', 'x']


Regards,
Bengt Richter



From martin at v.loewis.de  Sun Jul 13 11:14:37 2003
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 17:14:37 +0200
Subject: Windows XP - Environment variable - Unicode
In-Reply-To: <vh2tlpbo492o6d@news.supernews.com>
References: <3f0e77fc@epflnews.epfl.ch> <vgvtb26kob5035@news.supernews.com> <3F10795B.9000501@v.loewis.de> <vh27ooiajenv87@news.supernews.com> <m33chakd25.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <vh2tlpbo492o6d@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <bert0r$o6$01$1@news.t-online.com>

John Roth wrote:
> Good point. That does make it somewhat harder; the routine
> would have to precompute both versions, and store them with
> both standard strings and unicode strings as keys.

That doesn't work. You cannot have separate dictionary entries
for unicode and byte string keys if the keys compare and hash
equal, which is the case for all-ASCII keys (which environment
variable names typically are).

Regards,
Martin




From jjl at pobox.com  Sat Jul 19 09:42:09 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 19 Jul 2003 14:42:09 +0100
Subject: How to identify the method that has called another method ?
References: <764b8294.0307180620.37781a4@posting.google.com> <7h34r1j23g1.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <87oezqr5u6.fsf@pobox.com>

Michael Hudson <mwh at python.net> writes:

> martin_a_clausen at hotmail.com (Mars) writes:
> 
> > I am using Python 2.2.3 and new-style classes. I want to implement a
> > static factory method to build objects for me. My plan is to have
> > __init__ check that it has been called from said factory method and
> > not directly. Is there a elegant way of achieving this ?
> 
> No.  sys.getframe(1).f_code.co_name might be a start.
> 
> > (and is this a silly idea in general ?)
> 
> I've always disliked trying to disallow this kind of abuse -- it's
> very hard to make it impossible, and I think you're better off just
> documenting the restrictions.
[...]

A hard-to-miss way of documenting it:

class MyClass:
    def __init__(self, arga, argb,
                 yes_I_know_I_should_use_the_factory_function=False):

def Factory():
    return MyClass(get_arga(), get_argb(), True)


John



From lamar_air at hotmail.com  Tue Jul 15 16:23:09 2003
From: lamar_air at hotmail.com (lamar_air)
Date: 15 Jul 2003 13:23:09 -0700
Subject: String Manipulation
Message-ID: <2c6431ab.0307151223.4173c4ee@posting.google.com>

I need a piece of code that takes a string like this string1 =
"aaa/bbb/ccc/dd" and extracts a string containting the character after
the last "/"

So for this example the result would be "dd"

like this:
for i=0; string1.right(i) != '/'; i++

result = string1.mid(i, string1.length())

but in python.



From ianb at colorstudy.com  Sun Jul 13 22:47:30 2003
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: 13 Jul 2003 21:47:30 -0500
Subject: anything like C++ references?
In-Reply-To: <bet17l$gdp$1@panix3.panix.com>
References: <13t0hvsb7idh0g6ac3upe5k0qd6flc17ah@4ax.com>
	 <lq-cnWRG9rRuMIyiXTWJjQ@comcast.com>
	 <b8c3hvsesjoumiboobml3nsnajtha99mp1@4ax.com>
	 <mailman.1058126720.6756.python-list@python.org>
	 <bet17l$gdp$1@panix3.panix.com>
Message-ID: <1058150850.28457.525.camel@lothlorien>

On Sun, 2003-07-13 at 20:32, Aahz wrote:
> In article <mailman.1058126720.6756.python-list at python.org>,
> Ian Bicking  <ianb at colorstudy.com> wrote:
> >
> >(Admittedly, some confusion may occur because these very different
> >operations use the same syntax:
> >
> >  x = 10
> >  x[0] = 10
> >  obj.x = 10
> >
> >The second and third are entirely different from the first.)
> 
> No, they aren't.  They are precisely the same; they just have different
> assignment targets.

Sure they are different.  The first is a primitive operation binding the
variable x.  The second gets x, and calls x.__setitem__(0, 10), and the
third is equivalent to setattr(obj, 'x', 10).

The first is primitive syntax.  I suppose you could say that it could be
reduced to operations on locals() and globals(), but I feel like that's
a detail that is best not brought up ;)  The local and global scope are
not as flexible as other objects The other two are really just syntactic
sugar.

  Ian






From rshaw2 at midsouth.rr.com  Thu Jul  3 11:40:24 2003
From: rshaw2 at midsouth.rr.com (Richard)
Date: 3 Jul 2003 08:40:24 -0700
Subject: How to setup webserver for Python
References: <mailman.1057223466.3796.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <84e0f331.0307030740.41c687fd@posting.google.com>

"A" <printers at sendme.cz> wrote in message news:<mailman.1057223466.3796.python-list at python.org>...
> Hello,
> I have a webhosting account with one company.
> I can use python from command line through Telnet(SSH) but can not run successfully 
> Python program from a browser.(They use Apache web server.)
> What must I do?
> What permission must I set on directory and the python file?
> Here is a simple program I would like to run 
> ########
> #!/usr/bin/python 
> print "Content-Type: text/html"    print
> print"AAA"
> ########
> Thanks for help
> Ladislav
> 
> I look forward to hearing from you soon.
> 
> Best regards,
> Ladislav Blazek( Mr.)

I would ask if they have mod_python setup, and if not, I would request
it. This keeps python loaded into memory so there is much less load
put on the server than having to load python every time your page got
a hit.

Richard



From andy at wild-flower.co.uk  Thu Jul 10 19:01:44 2003
From: andy at wild-flower.co.uk (Andy Jewell)
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 00:01:44 +0100
Subject: Executing scripts
In-Reply-To: <3F0D94CA.38C71FFC@engcorp.com>
References: <jHfPa.21$ww6.48420@news.uswest.net> <3F0D94CA.38C71FFC@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <200307110001.44807.andy@wild-flower.co.uk>

On Thursday 10 Jul 2003 5:31 pm, Peter Hansen wrote:
> Ken Fettig wrote:
> > I am having a problem executing scripts from python. The script is
> > located at C:\Python22\learn and is named more.py. This is an example
> > from the Programming Python book by Mark Lutz published by O'Reilly. I
> > have tried how the author outlines to execute the script but it doesn't
> > work. I am on a Windows 2000 machine.
> > The example shows to, at the command line, enter C:\Python22\learn>python
> >
> > more.py more.py. I get the following output:
> > >>> C:\Python22\learn>python more.py more.py
> >
> >   File "<stdin>", line 1
> >     C:\Python22\learn>python more.py more.py
> >      ^
> > I have tried many combinations all unsuccessfully.  Can someone please
> > help me????
>
> You are not at the right command line.  The >>> indicates you have already
> run Python, but are trying to execute a DOS command line at the *Python*
> prompt.
>
> See  http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw.py?req=show&file=faq08.018.htp
>
> -Peter

Ken,

You need:

execfile("learn\more.py")

if you are already at the PYTHON command line.


In computer books, it is convention to usually show the PROMPT as well as the 
command you should enter  (The prompt is the computer program's signal to the 
user (you!) that it's ready for you to type something). The 
"C:\Python22\learn>" bit is the DOS (or win 2000 CMD) PROMPT.  The PYTHON 
PROMPT is ">>>".

DOS (or WIN 2k CMD.EXE) doesn't understand PYTHON commands.
PYTHON doesn't understand DOS commands.

To get a win 2k CMD prompt, click Start/Run...  and enter CMD into the prompt.  
A black box will appear with the DOS prompt in it. If you then type...

c:\python22\python c:\python22\learn\more.py

...it should launch your program.  Python is probably on your PATH environment 
variable, so you *may* be able to get away with (note the prompt!!):

C:\>cd python22
C:\Python22>python learn\more.py

... try it and see, but remember, don't type the PROMPTS!

hope that helps
-andyj




From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Jul 14 23:08:44 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 23:08:44 -0400
Subject: Sio serial module install problem with ActiveState
References: <pan.2003.07.14.21.40.42.609932@zexcite.zcom> <3F132FB3.CF0E6B44@engcorp.com> <pan.2003.07.15.02.56.25.188912@zexcite.zcom>
Message-ID: <3F13703C.C12392D6@engcorp.com>

Conrad wrote:
> 
> I'll give them a shot tomorrow. USPP made me a little
> nervous, because frankly, it looks like it died a year
> and a half ago, with outstanding Linux bugs 

Thanks for checking that out better than I did.  I was
worried about that myself, having seen nothing about it
for a very long time, but the name had stuck in my head.

> pyserial seemed from it's docs
> to require jython - which means pulling in a whole slew
> of third-party DLLs for Java. 

No!  Try PySerial first, for sure.  It does NOT require
Jython, but does support it.  As the home page says,
"It provides backends for stadard (sic) Python running 
on Windows, Linux, BSD (possibly any POSIX compilant system) 
and Jython.  The module named "serial" automaticaly (sic) 
selects the appropriate backed (sic)."

(Chris, if you'd like, I'll happily proofread that page
and correct a few spelling errors for you. ;-)

-Peter



From richardc at hmgcc.gov.uk  Tue Jul 15 04:38:15 2003
From: richardc at hmgcc.gov.uk (richardc)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 09:38:15 +0100
Subject: A few beginning questions
References: <3f129a8a$1@mail.hmgcc.gov.uk> <2259b0e2.0307140930.4b3c43a5@posting.google.com> <ptkdj863.fsf@python.net> <bf0anc$9gch1$1@ID-141451.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <3f13bd77$1@mail.hmgcc.gov.uk>

Thanks for all the replies,

I think I'll use optik for the argument parsing, its very close to a C++
library I wrote to do the same job.  Although my 10 second scan of the docs
didnt reveal exactly what the 'store' param dose ?

As for 'convention' based 'enforcement', not so shure about that as a
programming paradime, perhaps thats the C++ programmer in me :) but if its
the way to do it ... so be it.

Im guessing from the lack of responce that there arnt many python editors
which run on OSX.

As you all seem so helpful I'll ask a couple of other questions.

1. How do tyou do enum's in python, infact dose anybody know of a C++ ->
Python crossreference doc out there ?

2. Is there a reason that the python documentation is ... dont know how to
describe it really.  Ive used PHP and their documentation and its great,
particually the 'user comments' bit.  But for some reason python's seems a
little 'obscure'.  I mean doing things like searching for 'for', I want  a
simple description and some examples showing me the use of range in a for
loop, and answering how to reverse iterate through a list.  Instead I get
the formal syntax for the 'for' command.  Not really that useful.

3. How do I reverse iterate through a loop ... is there an easier way than
something like the following
    l = ['some', 'text', 'in', 'a', 'list' ]
    for i in range( 0, len( l ) ):
        do something to l[ i ]

4. Is there an easy way to reverse read a file ?  I mean like a 'getline'
that works by reading backwards through the file.  Im guessing getting
single characters and moving the file pointer back is going to be slow in
python. Its not actally that important... just wondering

Many thanks

Rich







From tjland at iserv.net  Mon Jul 28 00:15:35 2003
From: tjland at iserv.net (tjland at iserv.net)
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 00:15:35 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: How to reverse lookup characters in list?
Message-ID: <1886.68.75.128.108.1059365735.squirrel@webmail.iserv.net>

Okay so im working on a very simple encryption method using just loops.
Kind of novel i think. Okay so first i set up a list of the alphabet with
just every seperate letter, then user is prompted for a word, this is not
user friendly just for me. Ok now as you can see below this is pretty
basic, if u can follow all the loops i get to a point where I have the
letter positions in the list for the final word but i dont know of a way
to come back with the corresponding letter to output to the user. Ummm
some help would be really appreciated. Sorry about the length!


----------------------------------------------------------------------------
from time import sleep
#Alphabet list used to move letters forward for simple encryption.
alphabet =
["a","b","c","d","e","f","g","h","i","j","k","l","m","n","o","p","q","r","s","t","u","v","w","x","y","z"]

word_list = []
number_list = []
number_list2 = []
new_word = []
#variable for how far you want to switch
v = 2
word = raw_input("Word: ")
a = len(word)
for x in range(0, len(word)):
    print word[x],
    word_list.append(word[x])
    b = alphabet.index(word[x])
    number_list.append(b)

for x in range(0, len(number_list)):
    c = number_list[x]
    c = c + v
    number_list2.append(c)

for x in range(0, len(number_list2)):
    d = number_list2[x]
    new_word.append(d)

for x in range(0,
#Stopped here because dont know of way to switch back.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------



         When you see the net take the shot
         When you miss your shot shoot again
           When you make your shot you win!

                   Just remember
               Offense sells tickets
           But defense wins championships!




From op73418 at mail.telepac.pt  Sat Jul 12 18:12:24 2003
From: op73418 at mail.telepac.pt (Gonçalo Rodrigues)
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 23:12:24 +0100
Subject: any such thing as list interleaving?
References: <hat0hv49g0e6bf3770c6df2cukknd5vak2@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <to11hvo51846ukl7vkbdbo60palt3g6thh@4ax.com>

On Sat, 12 Jul 2003 14:00:49 -0700, Tom Plunket <tomas at fancy.org>
wrote:

>
>I find myself often doing the following sort of thing (sorry for
>lack of whitespace, I don't want the line to break):
>
>for entry, index in map(lambda e,i:(e,i),aList,range(len(aList)):
>   # ...
>
>This definitely seems like a roundabout way to loop through
>parallel lists together.  Is this map routine truly the easiest/
>best/most straight-forward way to do a for loop through parallel
>lists, if I feel that the Python anti-idom of:
>

Check the zip builtin:

>>> help(zip)
Help on built-in function zip:

zip(...)
    zip(seq1 [, seq2 [...]]) -> [(seq1[0], seq2[0] ...), (...)]
    
    Return a list of tuples, where each tuple contains the i-th
element
    from each of the argument sequences.  The returned list is
truncated
    in length to the length of the shortest argument sequence.


>for index in range(len(myList)):
>   entry = aList(index)
>   anotherEntry = anotherList(index)
>   # ...
>
>???
>
>This also brings up a similar problem for me when iterating over
>dictionaries:
>
>for key in myDict:
>   value = myDict[key]
>   # ...
>

Fire the interpreter and type:

>>> help(dict)

As it's a long stretch of text, I'll just post the relevant part:

 |  iteritems(...)
 |      D.iteritems() -> an iterator over the (key, value) items of D
 |  

>This seems a pretty sloppy way to go about it, imo.  There must
>be something more in the Python spirit!  :)
>
>Thanks.
>
>-tom!

With my best regards,
G. Rodrigues



From touma at eglin.af.mil  Tue Jul 29 13:57:59 2003
From: touma at eglin.af.mil (JamesT)
Date: 29 Jul 2003 10:57:59 -0700
Subject: Wrtiting AVI files with  Python
Message-ID: <3b24bbb8.0307290957.17a126b8@posting.google.com>

Hi all,

I looked around for information about how to write AVI files with
Python but I didn't find any. PIL does not have that feature
implemented. The closest thing I found what the source code for
avifile which is in C++. Does any one know if there is such a tool for
Python or some libraries that I could import and use in my code?

Thanks,
JET



From pu at vo.lu  Thu Jul 31 18:43:34 2003
From: pu at vo.lu (Patrick Useldinger)
Date: 31 Jul 2003 15:43:34 -0700
Subject: bug in file.write() ?
Message-ID: <13a4e2e3.0307311443.299bd59d@posting.google.com>

Hi,

I think I found a bug in the write method of file objects. It seems as
if before writing each block, a check was done in order to verifiy
that there is enough space left for the *whole* file, not for the
*remaining* data to be written.

It happens both under 2.3 and 2.2.3.
Any ideas? 

========================== Python 2.3
==================================
I:\My Programs\dfc>b2

start dfc.py [v.0.19.final (July 31st, 2003)] @ 2003-08-01 00:21:48
Python 2.3.final running on win32
reading configuration file dfcCfgBackupCd
instantiating processor(s) .
paths & includes/excludes taken from configuration file
creating initial reference point i:\dfc\ref\dfcRefBackupCd.dfc
.copying  i:\dfc\arc\dfcArchive cheetah 20030731-234648 F.zip to
f:\dfcArchive cheetah 20030731-234648 F.zip
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "I:\My Programs\dfc\dfc.py", line 199, in ?
    dfc.doProcess(cfgFile.DFCProcTags)
  File "I:\My Programs\dfc\dfc.py", line 144, in doProcess
    newStat=self.newStat.get(fileName,None)) == None:
  File "I:\My Programs\dfc\dfc.py", line 129, in process
    return self.pubSub.publishMessage(self.pubSubProcess,kwargs,checkRet=True)
  File "I:\My Programs\dfc\PubSub.py", line 170, in publishMessage
    retVal.append(subscriber(**dict(args)))
  File "I:\My Programs\dfc\dfcProcCopy.py", line 20, in process
    shutil.copyfile(fileName,toFile)
  File "C:\Python23\lib\shutil.py", line 39, in copyfile
    copyfileobj(fsrc, fdst)
  File "C:\Python23\lib\shutil.py", line 24, in copyfileobj
    fdst.write(buf)
IOError: [Errno 28] No space left on device

I:\My Programs\dfc>dir f:
 Volume in drive F is Backup 01
 Volume Serial Number is E2CB-1650

 Directory of F:\

18/05/2002  15:39       <DIR>          .
18/05/2002  15:39       <DIR>          ..
01/08/2003  00:25          299.630.592 dfcArchive cheetah
20030731-234648 F.zip
               1 File(s)    299.630.592 bytes
               2 Dir(s)     299.636.736 bytes free

========================= Python 2.2.3
=================================

I:\My Programs\dfc>i:\py222\python.exe dfc.py dfcCfgBackupCd

start dfc.py [v.0.19.final (July 31st, 2003)] @ 2003-08-01 00:29:08
Python 2.2.3.final running on win32
reading configuration file dfcCfgBackupCd
instantiating processor(s) .
paths & includes/excludes taken from configuration file
creating initial reference point i:\dfc\ref\dfcRefBackupCd.dfc
.copying  i:\dfc\arc\dfcArchive cheetah 20030731-234648 F.zip to
f:\dfcArchive cheetah 20030731-234648 F.zip
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "dfc.py", line 199, in ?
    dfc.doProcess(cfgFile.DFCProcTags)
  File "dfc.py", line 144, in doProcess
    newStat=self.newStat.get(fileName,None)) == None:
  File "dfc.py", line 129, in process
    return self.pubSub.publishMessage(self.pubSubProcess,kwargs,checkRet=True)
  File "PubSub.py", line 170, in publishMessage
    retVal.append(subscriber(**dict(args)))
  File "dfcProcCopy.py", line 20, in process
    shutil.copyfile(fileName,toFile)
  File "i:\py222\lib\shutil.py", line 30, in copyfile
    copyfileobj(fsrc, fdst)
  File "i:\py222\lib\shutil.py", line 20, in copyfileobj
    fdst.write(buf)
IOError: [Errno 28] No space left on device
========================================================================



From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Jul 14 14:47:00 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 14:47:00 -0400
Subject: (Suggestion) Download Options
References: <221d8dbe.0307140147.6417e501@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3F12FAA4.58026440@engcorp.com>

srijit at yahoo.com wrote:
> 
> Can we have a download option for upcoming Python 2.3 without TCL/Tk?
> Though I know the extremely popular Tkinter is the default GUI of
> Python, I see one immediate advantage of a download option without
> TCL/Tk
> 1) Download size is less and it is a boon for people like me with slow
> modem connection.
> 2) Tkinter with TCL/TK can be a separate add-on
> 
> I look forward to opinions from members.

Maybe this should be written up as a PEP?  See 
http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0001.html for more information.

-Peter



From donn at drizzle.com  Thu Jul 24 11:13:35 2003
From: donn at drizzle.com (Donn Cave)
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 15:13:35 -0000
Subject: How to disable output messages of the child process, in spawnv( )?
References: <db3b6d24.0307231050.74d41e66@posting.google.com> <3f1eddc9$0$160$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <db3b6d24.0307231756.cff8af9@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1059059614.658900@yasure>

Quoth nushin2 at yahoo.com (nushin):
| Is there any trick to disable the output of a child process spawned by
| spawnv( ) API?

No.

| I believe in Python and i am sure there's a way around it. Correct me
| if i am wrong.

You believe in tricks, is the problem.  Read what people are telling you.
You can redirect output of a command, you can do it Python, but the only
way to do it in spawnv is to make spawnv execute a shell command.

	Donn Cave, donn at drizzle.com

| grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards) wrote in message news:<3f1eddc9$0$160$a1866201 at newsreader.visi.com>...
|> In article <db3b6d24.0307231050.74d41e66 at posting.google.com>, nushin wrote:
|> > I'd like to disable the output of the process spawned by spawnv( )
|> > API, but the catch is that i *have to* see the output of the parent
|> > process making the  spawnv( ) call. Has anyone done that? I have some
|> > pointers that by using dup2( ) API i might be able to do that, any
|> > ideas how? Also, i have to spawn as an asynch call, using P_NOWAIT,
|> > e.g.,:
|> > 
|> > os.spawnv(os.P_NOWAIT,'/usr/bin/python',('python','hello.py'),('>/dev/null &'))
|> 
|> Nope.  
|> 
|> The ">" and "&" are things that a shell (like bash or ksh)
|> handles.  The python interpreter has no idea what to do with
|> them.  If you want to use ">" and "&", then spawn a shell, and
|> pass it a command to run the python program with output
|> redirected.



From max at alcyone.com  Sat Jul 12 19:11:23 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 16:11:23 -0700
Subject: Python Mystery Theatre -- Episode 1:  Exceptions
References: <UiOPa.3259$Y92.1224@nwrdny01.gnilink.net> <3F0FC088.3C56EDEA@alcyone.com> <bep6l2$a1g$1@panix3.panix.com> <87y8z34d3d.fsf@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <3F10959B.17327C19@alcyone.com>

"John J. Lee" wrote:

> Perhaps Erik was wondering, as I was, where that "<unprintable
> instance
> object>" came from.

Indeed.  I was quite aware of what was happening, just not clear on why
his particular Python session said something that mine didn't.

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ Now I must follow them!
\__/  Beowulf, King of the Geats



From jjl at pobox.com  Mon Jul  7 08:24:39 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 07 Jul 2003 13:24:39 +0100
Subject: Will Python exceptions be documented?
References: <33a013af.0307070318.73013d4@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <873chi8qyg.fsf@pobox.com>

vegard at mail.com (Vegard Bakke) writes:

> From whet I can see, Python documentation is lacking a very important
> piece of information.  Very few functions have documented what
> exceptions they raise, and under what cicumstances.  Is this a task on
> the schedule?

IIRC, yes.


[...]
> I have seen many different examples for catching exceptions from
> open(). Which is the right one?

What examples, specifically?  The docs say IOError can be raised.
Just about everything can raise ValueError, TypeError,
KeyboardInterrupt and MemoryError, so they aren't typically
documented.  I'm not sure exactly when WindowsError (rather than
something more specific) gets raised.

Not answering your question, but as a BTW: in that particular case, if
you're getting uncontrolled input you might sometimes want to
normalise the exceptions raised by catching everything but a few
exceptions.  This is useful because you might not have anticipated
every way that weird input might trip up your code (ie. your code may
be buggy).  See this recipe and my comment

http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/101853


In fact, I didn't show the try / finally needed to close the file
there, so it should really be:

import traceback
from cStringIO import StringIO

DEBUG = True

def debug(msg):
    print msg

def load(filename):
    f = open(filename)
    try:
        try:
            # Some code that might raise IOError, or another exception that you
            # weren't expecting, if the user is imaginitive enough...
        except (AssertionError, KeyboardInterrupt, IOError):
            # NOTE WELL the brackets around the exception classes -- an except
            # with two arguments means something quite different!
            raise
        except:
            if DEBUG:
                f = StringIO()
                traceback.print_exc(None, f)
                debug("uncaught exception:\n%s" % f.getvalue())
            raise IOError, "invalid file '%s'" % filename
    finally:
        f.close()

load("/some/nonsense/file.txt")


> The error from function math.log(0) is a by unpredictable, but at
> least that is documentet.  What about all the others? math.asin(2),
> shutil, os, sys?
> 
> All know that asin(2) is wrong, but how do I know that ValueError is
> the exception I should catch, and how do I know that is the only one?
> (Sorry, try it is the wrong answere here.)

For the math module, the log(0) situation applies.  From the 2.3
library docs for the math module:

 Note: The math module consists mostly of thin wrappers around the
   platform C math library functions. Behavior in exceptional cases is
   loosely specified by the C standards, and Python inherits much of
   its math-function error-reporting behavior from the platform C
   implementation. As a result, the specific exceptions raised in
   error cases (and even whether some arguments are considered to be
   exceptional at all) are not defined in any useful cross-platform or
   cross-release way. For example, whether math.log(0) returns -Inf or
   raises ValueError or OverflowError isn't defined, and in cases
   where math.log(0) raises OverflowError, math.log(0L) may raise
   ValueError instead.


> My other issue with is concerning the documentation of the exceptions
> themselves. How can I find out that I can use 'filename', 'errno' and
> 'strerror' for the exception IOError without having to use
> dir(IOError())?  And is it valid in all versions/platforms?

That's documented under the base class, EnvironmentError.


> Since I'm critisising the lack of work, I will voulunteer to help out
> with the process. But I will need some guidance and pointers in the
[...]

Great.  I'd say just submit some specific doc patches with the
knowledge you already have (as long as you make it clear where you're
unsure).  Since that shows you're prepared to do some work on it, it's
likely to get you feedback from the people who know all the details
but don't have time to work on it themselves.  Of course, the core
people are probably particularly busy with 2.3 ATM, so don't expect a
rapid response.


John



From me at home.net  Sat Jul  5 09:42:50 2003
From: me at home.net (J-P)
Date: Sat, 05 Jul 2003 09:42:50 -0400
Subject: Why so many references to global variables?
In-Reply-To: <yfsd6gqxlja.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk>
References: <aD%Ma.5942$bD1.693184@news20.bellglobal.com> <yfs1xx7i88o.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <0S2Na.6305$bD1.721957@news20.bellglobal.com> <yfsd6gqxlja.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <wBANa.7747$eF3.1058907@news20.bellglobal.com>

Thank you both for the advice, I appreciate it!

J-P




From dave at pythonapocrypha.com  Fri Jul 11 20:42:26 2003
From: dave at pythonapocrypha.com (Dave Brueck)
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 18:42:26 -0600
Subject: socket problem
In-Reply-To: <955.1057965717@www25.gmx.net>
References: <20030711230938.GA22310@intarweb.us> <955.1057965717@www25.gmx.net>
Message-ID: <200307111842.26177.dave@pythonapocrypha.com>

On Friday 11 July 2003 05:21 pm, Gordon Wetzstein wrote:
> > On Sat, Jul 12, 2003 at 01:05:27AM +0200, Gordon Wetzstein wrote:
> > > Hello everyone,
> > > I have a problem with python sockets. I broadcast a lot of pickled
> > objects
> > > with socket. sendto(...), that works. Ireceive them on the other site
> > with
> > > socket.recvfrom(16384) The pickled objects are smaller (like 10000
> > bytes)
> > > than the max bytes.
> > >
> > > The problem appears if I send too many pickled objects very quickly one
> > > after another, then I only receive a part of the sent objects. I print
> > > them before I send them, they are there but they never reach the
> > > destination. When I do a time.sleep(0.1) (but not lesser than 0.1)
> > > after socket.send() all is good but it's too slow!
> > >
> > > Does anyone know what the problem is? And maybe a solution!
> >
> >   UDP is an inherently unreliable protocol.  If you require reliable data
> > transmission, consider using TCP.
> >
> >   Jp
> >
> > --
>
> But then I can't use braodcast, can I?

Nope. You have to choose between building some reliability on top of UDP or 
tracking your recipients and sending to each one as needed. Even without 
knowing what you're really trying to do, I recommend the latter. :)

-Dave




From rimbalaya at yahoo.com  Fri Jul  4 08:33:48 2003
From: rimbalaya at yahoo.com (Rim)
Date: 4 Jul 2003 05:33:48 -0700
Subject: Suggesting for overloading the assign operator
References: <6f03c4a5.0306301931.3f15fbb7@posting.google.com> <6f03c4a5.0307022119.2b0a4bc1@posting.google.com> <be1jfa$f31$1@panix3.panix.com>
Message-ID: <6f03c4a5.0307040433.756b744e@posting.google.com>

> >I think the suggestion to solve the problem by using the __setattr__
> >special method will not work because it intercepts attribute
> >assignment of the form "self.attr = somthing", and not what I want,
> >which is "name = something".
> 
> Why don't you follow my suggestion about creating your own language?

I think it would be too much work for one person, and I don't know
how, and I don't think I have the time. Thanks but for now this is
beyond my limited capabilities!

Rim



From g at prullenbak.todd.nu  Tue Jul 29 02:58:25 2003
From: g at prullenbak.todd.nu (Giles Todd)
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 08:58:25 +0200
Subject: Collective memory
References: <mailman.1057083728.8224.python-list@python.org> <vg88va53uha8e@corp.supernews.com> <hff5eb.e9h.ln@escape.shannon.net> <3F082031.3010503@netscape.netNOTthisBIT> <bec993c8.0307080602.7d5d132e@posting.google.com> <beeln9$b63$8@bob.news.rcn.net> <n1tphvg2gtmjsl8j3rehh33ebhqkb91q2d@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <n64civ0cqtsqsvpkr8fmlglg66p8pj56h7@4ax.com>

On Tue, 22 Jul 2003 08:29:14 GMT, Brian Inglis
<Brian.Inglis at SystematicSw.ab.ca> wrote:

> That's a lousy printer operator: the ribbon should have been
> flipped end around long before it got to that stage. 
> (That's the old equivalent of shaking a laser toner cartridge.) 
> You also wouldn't be able to differentiate between commas and
> dots, some apostrophes and quotes, maybe bars and bangs, possibly
> parens brackets and braces, if you had and used them. 

On Sunday last, having finally fixed my bike after two years of
non-use, I wandered off to Amsterdam's Stedelijk Museum, where there
was (and still is) an exhibition of items from its collection of
purchases from the 1960s and early 1970s.

In the last room (of 32, or thereabouts) there were many May 1968 and
anti-Vietnam-war posters, some of them strikingly apt given current
events, plus some others dedicated to apparently 'minor' issues. 

Among the latter were two posters printed on [now I have forgotten the
English word for this type of paper, but it has tractor holes along
both sides, and is flimsy, and has horizontal perforations every now
and then] paper, with a silk-screeened slogan advocating recycling on
the supposedly blank side.

The posters were under glass, but I could still see the FORTRAN
listings on the other side of them.  Nice (from both of my points of
view).

Anyway, to return to the post I am commenting to, the commas on the
listings I saw (viewed from the back, from the viewpoint of the person
who originally instructed the computer to print them) lacked tails.  I
expect that this is probably cause for a law suit nowadays, where
everything is perfect and, if something turns out not to be perfect
then it must be the fault of someone who is LIABLE!

Impact ribbons cost money, you know.  Whether you replace them or not.

The exhibition to which I refer is scheduled to carry on until the end
of the year, should anyone else wish to view it.  My favourite exhibit
was the TV Buddha.  Made me giggle for at least five minutes, in spite
of it being nearly thirty years old and part of it being in
monochrome.

Giles.



From donn at u.washington.edu  Tue Jul  8 12:37:35 2003
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 09:37:35 -0700
Subject: Container behaviour  (was: print attitude)
References: <mailman.1057675993.29542.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <donn-51CB11.09373508072003@nntp1.u.washington.edu>

In article <mailman.1057675993.29542.python-list at python.org>,
 "Batista, Facundo" <FBatista at uniFON.com.ar> wrote:

> #- Personally, I think the internal difference between str and repr hits
> #- right upon a proper difference:  str is for a "reasonable"
> #- human-readable representation, and repr is for as faithful and
> #- informative a representation as possible.  These both have their uses
> #- and I approve of the distinction.
> 
> Beyond the specific utilization of str or repr, the detail that get me
> confused is:
> 
> repr (container) => repr (elements)
> str (container) => repr (elements)
> 
> Why cannot I, when I want the repr of a container, get the repr of its
> elements, and when I want the str of a container, get the str of its
> elements?

Because that wouldn't make sense.  Neither does the interpretation
of str and repr you quote, so that's not going to be much help.

str is a type conversion function.  Data types that can
sensibly be converted to strings can provide a __str__
function that does that.  Conversion doesn't mean that all
the information present in the original survives in the result,
only the properties that make sense in a string.

For example, you might design a sequence data type that is
a list of integer values in the range [0..255], say for the
purpose of some cryptography, and write a __str__ whose result
simply puts the same values in a string type.  Or a class that
carries a list of strings might just concatenate them (cf.
rfc822.Message)

But lists themselves do not have any natural conversion to
string type, so they fall back to repr.  Eric did explain
why simply applying str to the elements would make an ambiguous
mess.  You may be able to describe an ideal result for your
application, but there are many other potentially ideal ways
to do it and no way to say one of them makes more sense than
another.  I think if I were obliged to write the __str__ function
that applies str to each element of a list, I would simply join
the strings with no separator, so str([10, 11, 12]) == '101112',
but I'm sure that would offend as many people as it pleased.

   Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu



From glenfant at NOSPAM.bigfoot.com  Fri Jul 25 11:29:14 2003
From: glenfant at NOSPAM.bigfoot.com (Gilles Lenfant)
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 17:29:14 +0200
Subject: zope  ZMySQLDA
References: <rZmdnVc4WPWOQIOiRTvUrg@net1plus.com> <bfobe2$h17es$1@ID-63505.news.uni-berlin.de> <ZtydnYXEa-NqpbyiRTvUqg@net1plus.com>
Message-ID: <bfrhj8$1rnm$1@biggoron.nerim.net>

Hmmm an idea...

Perhaps you didn't install MySQL-python-0.9.2 on the python instance that
runs Zope.

Did you compile the source by yourself or installed the binary installer.exe
for your Python version ?

"server_capabilities" is defined in a _mysql.so (or .pyd .dll in Windows),
so it's quite difficult to hack a binary compiled C module.

Strange : My windows Zope config works perfectly with a similar config (but
running Zope 2.6.1 and DB server is on a Linux box)

Don't try to write your own DA (tricky job) when your some bits away from
the result.

--Gilles

"Don Rivard" <donald_rivard at hotmail.com> a ?crit dans le message de news:
ZtydnYXEa-NqpbyiRTvUqg at net1plus.com...
> I know get:
>
> Error Type: AttributeError
> Error Value: server_capabilities
>
>
> Traceback (innermost last):
>
>   a.. Module ZPublisher.Publish, line 49, in publish
>   b.. Module ZPublisher.mapply, line 32, in mapply
>   c.. Module ZPublisher.Publish, line 38, in call_object
>   d.. Module Products.ZMySQLDA.DA, line 102, in manage_addZMySQLConnection
>   e.. Module Shared.DC.ZRDB.Connection, line 58, in __init__
>   f.. Module Shared.DC.ZRDB.Connection, line 86, in edit
>   g.. Module Products.ZMySQLDA.DA, line 120, in connect
>   h.. Module Products.ZMySQLDA.db, line 179, in __init__
> AttributeError: server_capabilities
>
>  I'm not sure what server_capabilities really means.
>  I will write my own DA for this. Thanks
>
> "Thomas G?ttler" <guettler at thomas-guettler.de> wrote in message
> news:bfobe2$h17es$1 at ID-63505.news.uni-berlin.de...
> > Don Rivard wrote:
> >
> > > zope 2.71b
> > > ZMySQLDA 2.08
> > > MySQL-python-0.9.2
> > > mysql 3.23.55NT
> > >
> > > When I attempt to connect, by creating a Add Z MySQL Database
> Connection,
> > > I set the connection string
> > > to database user password, and i keep getting the following error
> > > Site Error
> > > An error was encountered while publishing this resource.
> > >
> > > Error Type: AttributeError
> > > Error Value: server_capabilities
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > If you want to see the stacktrace in error messages put
> > <dtml-var error_tb>
> > in the standard_error_message of Zope. This needs to be done
> > trough the web and is very handy for debugging.
> >
> > The stacktrace shows you the file and the line where
> > the error occured. Maybe this helps you to find your problem.
> >
> >  thomas
> >
> >
>
>




From mis6 at pitt.edu  Sun Jul 20 10:04:25 2003
From: mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato)
Date: 20 Jul 2003 07:04:25 -0700
Subject: feature request: a better str.endswith
References: <2259b0e2.0307180401.5dae02f2@posting.google.com> <mailman.1058530829.7072.python-list@python.org> <3f17f883$0$49107$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl> <2259b0e2.0307190529.57338b3f@posting.google.com> <NpkSa.16049$7O.14695@nwrdny01.gnilink.net>
Message-ID: <2259b0e2.0307200604.44d343f4@posting.google.com>

"Raymond Hettinger" <vze4rx4y at verizon.net> wrote in message news:<NpkSa.16049$7O.14695 at nwrdny01.gnilink.net>..
> I prefer that this feature not be added.  Convenience functions
> like this one rarely pay for themselves because:
> 
>    -- The use case is not that common (afterall, endswith() isn't even
>        used that often).

This is arguable.

>    -- It complicates the heck out of the C code

Really? Of course, you are the expert. I would do it in analogy to 
"isinstance" and internally calling "ifilter" as you suggest.

>    -- Checking for optional arguments results in a slight slowdown
>        for the normal case.

Perhaps slight enough to be negligible? Of course without
implementation
we cannot say, but I would be surprised to have a sensible slowdown.

>    -- It is easy to implement a readable version in only two or three
>        lines of pure python.

Yes, but not immediately obvious. See later.

>    -- It is harder to read because it requires background knowledge
>       of how endswith() handles a tuple (quick, does it take any
>       iterable or just a tuple, how about a subclass of tuple; is it
>       like min() and max() in that it *args works just as well as
>       argtuple; which python version implemented it, etc).

I have used "isinstance" and never wondered about these
technicalities, so
I guess the average user should not be more concerned with .endswith.
  
>   -- It is a pain to keep the language consistent.  Change endswith()
>       and you should change startswith().  Change the string object and
>       you should also change the unicode object and UserString and
>       perhaps mmap.  Update the docs for each and add test cases for
>       each (including weird cases with zero-length tuples and such).

This is true for any modification of the language. One has to balance
costs and benefits. The balance is still largely subjective.
 
>   -- The use case above encroaches on scanning patterns that are
>       already efficiently implemented by the re module.

I think the general rule is to avoid regular expressions when
possible.

>   -- Worst of all, it increases the sum total of python language to be
>       learned without providing much in return.

That it is exactly what I am arguing *against*: there is no additional
learning
effort needed, since a similar feature is already present in
"isinstance"
and an user could be even surprised that it is not implemented in
.endswith.

>   -- In general, the language can be kept more compact, efficient, and
>      maintainable by not trying to vectorize everything (the recent addition
>      of the __builtin__.sum() is a rare exception that is worth it).  It is
>      better to use a general purpose vectorizing function (like map, filter,
>      or reduce).  This particular case is best implemented in terms of the
>      some() predicate documented in the examples for the new itertools module
>      (though any() might have been a better name for it):
> 
>          some(filename.endswith, ('.jpg','.jpeg','.gif','.png'))

Uhm... don't like "some", nor "any"; what about "the"?

import itertools
the=lambda pred,seq: list(itertools.ifilter(pred,seq))
for filename in os.listdir('.'):
    if the(filename.endswith, ('.jpg','.jpeg','.gif','.png')): 
        print "This is a valid image"

That's readable enough for me, still not completely obvious. The first
time,
I got it wrong by defining "the=itertools.ifilter". I had the idea
that "ifilter" was acting just as "filter", which of course is not the
case
in this example. 

>      The implementation of some() is better than the filter version because
>      it provides an "early-out" upon the first successful hit.

No point against that.
> 
> Raymond Hettinger

Michele Simionato

P.S. I am not going to pursue this further, since I like quite a lot

 if the(filename.endswith, ('.jpg','.jpeg','.gif','.png')):
    dosomething()

Instead, I will suggest this example to be added to the itertools
documentation ;)
I could also submit it as a cookbook recipe, since I think it is 
a quite useful trick.
Also, it is good to make people aware of itertool goodies 
(myself I have learned something in this thread).



From alanmk at hotmail.com  Thu Jul 17 18:22:58 2003
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 23:22:58 +0100
Subject: A challenge to the ASCII proponents.
References: <mailman.1058278343.23104.python-list@python.org> <bf167a$pvt$1@panix2.panix.com> <ufzl7rdno.fsf@online.no> <3F142A58.80426AA4@hotmail.com> <2259b0e2.0307161620.4a9353f1@posting.google.com> <Xns93BB246FDDBCFJanC@213.118.75.80> <3F168011.3AEB3EFC@hotmail.com> <slrnbhe4v0.3i2.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>
Message-ID: <3F1721C2.9D9E95CF@hotmail.com>

JanC:

>>> The verb "gignooskoo" (trying to write it with Latin letters ;)

Alan Kennedy wrote:

>> Why limit yourself to that nasty little us-ascii alphabet? >;-)

Ben Finney wrote:

> Because it will display reliably on any computer.

I'm not so sure. Depends on what you mean by display I suppose. I have
a luddite classics professor friend who would deride the assertion
that the above is an accurate representation of the original greek
word.

> > Here it is in a format where almost everybody will be able to see the
> > original greek verb on their screen.
> > [instructions to cut and paste to a file, then open in a limited range
> > of programs, on computers possessing the appropriate font]
> >
> > So, the challenge to the ASCII proponents is: put the greek word
> > "gignooskoo" on everybody's screen, originating from a usenet message,
> > in the original greek, where "oo" -> greek letter omega.
> 
> Challenge accepted:
> 
> Open any drawing program.  Draw, in order from left to right, the Greek
> characters gamma, ipsilon, gamma, nu, omega, sigma, kappa, omega.
> 
> Done.  The desired word now appears on the screen.

OK, now that we've solved that problem, let's move it up a level. 

Now we want our greek to be indexable and searchable, so that, for
example, I can go to google and have it returned as a hit for the word
"gignooskoo". (apologies to greek people and greek scholars for the
poor rendering, if you've found this message at all).

And we want our greek to be accessible to visually disabled people.
Hacks like displaying bitmaps instead of glyphs work for visual
rendering. But what about non-visual renderings? Aural renderings?
Braille renderings?

> Oh, what's that -- you say that's cheating because the user has to use
> particular programs?  Perform manual steps?  Have some existing
> knowledge about the process?  That the process may fail for any of these
> reasons?

Not necessarily cheating. Just not scalable (to say, "The Illiad").
And not searchable. Or accessible. Yes, I could automate the process,
by say generating a series of vector commands, which results in
drawing the glyph on the users screen. But it still isn't searchable.

As for particular programs: we all use a limited set of software that
fits our personal paradigm for information modelling. But my process
only involved OS and software-independent concepts, listed below under
"existing knowledge". Also, I think browsers are pretty universal
these days. Note also that your proposed process requires the
availability of drawing software.

Perform manual steps: There'll always be manual steps. I count 12
mouse presses to follow my process. How many for yours?

Existing knowledge: All I need was knowledge of copy&paste, file
creation and file viewing. I might need Pretty basic and universal
computer knowledge, in these days of GUIs.

> Those are attributes of the "simple" process of manually manipulating
> XML content you gave.

Fair enough, if copying and pasting is a complex and error-prone
operation. But it's not. And even the copying and pasting would be
eliminated if I could have the usenet transport protocol encode its
data and metadata in XML.

And yes, it would also be necessary if I could encode protocol
metadata in UTF-8. But I can't. HTTP and MIME, restrict me to 8-bit
character sets like iso-8859-1.

> Not every computer is capable of automatically displaying Greek
> characters.  Even for those which can, there's not yet a universal way
> to instruct them to do so.  Hence, it is not possible to have any
> computer automatically display a word with Greek characters.

> But you already knew that, so why the silly challenge?

To raise the stakes once somebody has "ante'd up" >;-)

-- 
alan kennedy
-----------------------------------------------------
check http headers here: http://xhaus.com/headers
email alan:              http://xhaus.com/mailto/alan



From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Tue Jul 22 10:12:14 2003
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 09:12:14 -0500
Subject: How do i run an external program in an python script?
In-Reply-To: <bfjfg3$gos$1@ngspool-d02.news.aol.com> (Tamer Higazi's message
 of "Tue, 22 Jul 2003 15:49:18 +0200")
References: <bfjfg3$gos$1@ngspool-d02.news.aol.com>
Message-ID: <m2wueasla9.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

>>>>> "Tamer" == Tamer Higazi <tamer.higazi at web.de> writes:

    Tamer> Hi!  I have no idea about python. I got a c++ program which
    Tamer> i want to be called from an python script. How do i do
    Tamer> that?

http://groups.google.com

Search for: python run external program

John Hunter




From richardshea at fastmail.fm  Mon Jul 14 20:06:53 2003
From: richardshea at fastmail.fm (Richard Shea)
Date: 14 Jul 2003 17:06:53 -0700
Subject: NEWBIE: Books/articles on Python code to run with Apache/IIS
Message-ID: <282f826a.0307141606.fdf5fd3@posting.google.com>

Hi - As the subject implies I'm new to Python. I'm looking for some
books/articles etc which would layout the issues involved in building
an application in Python which was capable of used by web browsers
connecting to either a W2K/IIS box or a *nix/Apache box. In an ideal
world the Python code installed on either type of box would be
identical, that's the dream ... but is it doable ?

I should stress that it is a business application which would be
built, not really a content management system.

Any pointers would be welcome.

regards

Richard Shea.



From jjl at pobox.com  Wed Jul 30 07:23:27 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 30 Jul 2003 12:23:27 +0100
Subject: how best to handle httplib timeouts ?
References: <mnHVa.9399$Oz4.2070@rwcrnsc54>
Message-ID: <87fzkoi7gw.fsf@pobox.com>

"Rich" <rich at mchsi.com> writes:
[...]
> getting a page via httplib. the problem seems to be when IIS (or ASP) dies
> httplib does not always return and sometimes I'm left with an app that
> hangs. what is the best way to handle this ?
[...]

2.3 has timeout support for sockets (but not for DNS, IIRC).


John



From yaipa at yahoo.com  Mon Jul 28 18:09:23 2003
From: yaipa at yahoo.com (yaipa h.)
Date: 28 Jul 2003 15:09:23 -0700
Subject: Python on a USB storage device?
References: <VXcVa.28$HY3.42617@news.uswest.net>
Message-ID: <6e07b825.0307281409.5022b134@posting.google.com>

Kevin,

If you don't mind kick starting your app by hand then everything
should work just fine.  They are after all just disk drives that
use USB as the hardware layer rather than the devices's native ATA,
ATAPI, or SCSI physical layer.

Now if you want to start your app using AUTORUN or AUTOPLAY, good luck.
AUTORUN has been squeezed out of XP because of it's rather
large security hole. With AUTOPLAY, you can simulate AUTORUN behavior,
but true to MSoft it's rather convoluted.

IOMEGA has nice utility that automates AUTOPLAY a bit. Once you understand
what their app does you will understand what you are up against.
  
   http://www.iomega-activedisk.com/landing.jsp

Cheers,

   --Alan



"Kevin Altis" <altis at semi-retired.com> wrote in message news:<VXcVa.28$HY3.42617 at news.uswest.net>...
> Does anyone have experience running Python from a USB storage device?
> Whether it is the need for doing a demo of your application, doing a bit of
> consulting, or just showing off Python, it would be handy to be able to run
> Python on machines that don't already have Python installed. I'm thinking
> about giving this a try, but wondered if anyone is already doing it and the
> downsides, if any?
> 
> CD-ROM is not very effective because the media is read-only and too big to
> carry in your pocket. I think USB 2.0 is supposed to be roughly 20x faster
> than USB for storage devices, but I'm guessing that if you can live with the
> load times for machines that don't have USB 2.0, plain USB should still be
> effective.
> 
> HP Windows desktops, Linux, and Mac OS X already have Python installed and
> Mac OS X (Panther) will have Python 2.3. But even so, you generally have to
> install additional packages to get the functionality you want. Having all
> you need on a USB storage device and not needing to install anything on the
> host machine seems like it would be very convenient.
> 
> ka



From skip at pobox.com  Sat Jul  5 09:01:00 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2003 08:01:00 -0500
Subject: pipeline
In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20030703184133.024aac98@66.28.54.253>
References: <dGZMa.5172$351.1725266@twister.nyc.rr.com>
        <3f03f430$0$97222$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
        <FiZMa.2097$_k2.145814@nnrp1.ptd.net>
        <5.2.1.1.0.20030703184133.024aac98@66.28.54.253>
Message-ID: <16134.52236.278263.30918@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    Bob> When I worked at IBM I came across a great mainframe utility called
    Bob> Pipeline. It was driven by a specification that described data
    Bob> sources, various stages thru which the data was to be sent, various
    Bob> pipes that connected the stages, and various destinations for the
    Bob> data. The specification was not procedural. Each line of input was
    Bob> treated as a unit of data.

    Bob> I keep looking for something like this to arise for the PC. Have
    Bob> you seen anything like this? If not I'm inclined to write one, and
    Bob> Python seems a likely candidate for implementing such a program.

Depends upon your application domain.  In the scientific visualization realm
you might find VTK useful.  Also, check out MayaVi, a data visualizer
written in Python which uses VTK.  If you still live in the RPI area, the
VTK folks are headquartered in Clifton Park, NY.

For examples of what you can do, check out

    http://www.kitware.com/
    http://mayavi.sf.net/

Skip





From bhearsum at myrealbox.com  Sun Jul 27 16:07:25 2003
From: bhearsum at myrealbox.com (Ben Hearsum)
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 20:07:25 GMT
Subject: Cookie.py troubles.
Message-ID: <pan.2003.07.27.20.09.37.958056@myrealbox.com>

I'm confused about the way Cookie.load outputs cookies. Is there a way I
can tell it to give me the value of a key?

I set my cookie like this:

mycookie = Cookie.SimpleCookie()
mycookie['key'] = "foobar"

print mycookie
print("Content-Type: text/html\n\n")
print("meow")

Now, to retrieve it, the documentation says I parse the HTTP_COOKIE
environment variable. Makes sense to me. But when I print it out I get
"Set-Cookie: key=foobar;". I was thinking of parsing it with cgi.parse_qs,
but even if i do print(mycookie.output(header="")) there's still a ; at
the end of the cookie.

Here's what I use to print them out:

cookie = Cookie.SimpleCookie()
cookie.load(os.environ['HTTP_COOKIE'])

print("Content-Type: text/html\n\n")
print(mycookie.output(header=""))

Output:

key=foobar;


Can anyone provide any advice?

- Ben Hearsum



From kmoch at whs.edu  Thu Jul 24 17:01:18 2003
From: kmoch at whs.edu (Joe Kmoch)
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 16:01:18 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: not able to run
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.10.10307241552540.21283-100000@aoit.whs.edu>

I've tried to install python2.2 on our Solaris 8 system using the package
available on the sunfreeware.com site.  When I try to run python I get the
following:

# ls -al python2.2
-rwxr-xr-x   1 bin      bin      4902360 Feb 17 20:44 python2.2
# python2.2
ld.so.1: python2.2: fatal: libstdc++.so.5: open failed: No such file or
directory
Killed
# ./python2.2
ld.so.1: ./python2.2: fatal: libstdc++.so.5: open failed: No such file or
directory
Killed
# pwd
/usr/local/bin

I'm not very astute in dealing with Solaris so I may have missed something
somewhere.  Incidentally when I tried to do a find on libstd* I did
discover that this file existed:
	./usr/local/lib/libstdc++.so.2.10.0
but not libstdc++.so.5 

I'm not sure what I should do next.

Thanks in advance for your help.

Joe


--
Joe Kmoch                                     Washington High School
Director, Academy of Information Technology   2525 N. Sherman 
Blvd
kmoch at whs.edu                                 Milwaukee, WI  53210
(414) 875-5982 (desk)                         (414) 875-5900 (school)
(414) 875-5980 (academy)                      (414) 875-5915 (fax)





From t_therkelsen at hotmail.com  Wed Jul 16 05:09:26 2003
From: t_therkelsen at hotmail.com (Troels Therkelsen)
Date: 16 Jul 2003 09:09:26 GMT
Subject: hex check
References: <mailman.1058340712.8247.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrnbha5i4.dk.t_therkelsen@abattoir.2-10.org>

In article <mailman.1058340712.8247.python-list at python.org>, Ruslan Spivak wrote:
> Hello.
> 
> Does anybody have a hint how to check if input hex number is in correct 
> hex format?
> 
> Thanks in advance.

You could try the int() built-in function:

Python 2.3b2 (#1, Jun 30 2003, 13:04:39) 
[GCC 2.95.3 20010315 (release)] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> int("f3", 16)
243
>>> int("0xf3", 16)
243
>>> int("f3g", 16)
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
ValueError: invalid literal for int(): f3g
>>> 

You'd have to wrap it in a construct like this, for example:

    inputhex = "f3"
    try:
        i = int(inputhex, 16)
    except ValueErr:
        print "Bad hex input: %s" % inputhex


Hope this hint helps,

Troels Therkelsen.




From a.schmolck at gmx.net  Thu Jul  3 17:57:27 2003
From: a.schmolck at gmx.net (Alexander Schmolck)
Date: 03 Jul 2003 22:57:27 +0100
Subject: Why so many references to global variables?
References: <aD%Ma.5942$bD1.693184@news20.bellglobal.com>
Message-ID: <yfs1xx7i88o.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk>

J-P <me at home.net> writes:

> It appears that every time the interpreter tests for
> the value of 'myflag', it keeps a reference to it.

What makes you think so? This seems rather unlikely to me (not that the
references themselves should eat your memory anyway!). 

Chances are, the C extension code doesn't work correctly (C extensions to
python code have to do memory management by hand; increasing and decreasing
reference counts for the python objects they deal with as appropriate; so if a
bit of code forgets to decrease the refcount, the object will stay alive
forever; my guess would be that this it what happens here). So you'll have to
debug the C code. Valgrind can be *very* useful for this purpose. If you
discover anything else that really helps for tracking down such memory leaks,
I'd sure like to know.

'as



From andy at wild-flower.co.uk  Fri Jul 18 05:45:26 2003
From: andy at wild-flower.co.uk (Andy Jewell)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 10:45:26 +0100
Subject: [development doc updates]
In-Reply-To: <20030715221007.07C7A18F01B@grendel.zope.com>
References: <20030715221007.07C7A18F01B@grendel.zope.com>
Message-ID: <200307181044.36085.andy@wild-flower.co.uk>

On Tuesday 15 Jul 2003 11:10 pm, Fred L. Drake wrote:
> The development version of the documentation has been updated:
>
>     http://www.python.org/dev/doc/devel/
>
> Wide ranging updates accumulated over the weeks preceeding
> the release of Python 2.3 release candidate 1.

Does the following still hold true?  I thought it had all changed - do the new 
resolution rules only apply to "New Style Classes" ?

viz:
"""
9.5.1 Multiple Inheritance

.....

The only rule necessary to explain the semantics is the resolution rule used 
for class attribute references. This is depth-first, left-to-right. 
"""

-andyj




From alf at fayauffre.org  Fri Jul 25 11:26:58 2003
From: alf at fayauffre.org (Alexandre Fayolle)
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 15:26:58 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: How to detect typos in Python programs
References: <ZPaUa.6$gZ.133@news.oracle.com>
Message-ID: <slrnbi2j22.2ce.alf@largo.fayauffre.org>

Manish Jethani a ?crit :
> Hi all,
> 
> Is there a way to detect typos in a Python program, before
> actually having to run it. 

You may want to give a look at pylint (http://www.logilab.org/pylint/)

-- 
Alexandre Fayolle
LOGILAB, Paris (France).
http://www.logilab.com   http://www.logilab.fr  http://www.logilab.org
D?veloppement logiciel avanc? - Intelligence Artificielle - Formations



From staschuk at telusplanet.net  Wed Jul 30 13:21:49 2003
From: staschuk at telusplanet.net (Steven Taschuk)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 11:21:49 -0600
Subject: special case loading modules with imp
In-Reply-To: <a1.3c24fd2c.2c593d25@aol.com>; from Erendil@aol.com on Wed, Jul 30, 2003 at 11:24:21AM -0400
References: <a1.3c24fd2c.2c593d25@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20030730112149.A361@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>

Quoth Erendil at aol.com:
  [...]
> I need my plugin module to use imp to load that string of code as a module. 
  [...]
> So, I just want to switch from using real files to being able to use strings. 
> The goal is to get a module object that I can place in an array.

I was going to suggest StringIO, but it turns out imp.load_module
wants a real file, not merely something file-like.

However, you can always do it by hand:

    >>> import imp  
    >>> sourcecode = 'def foo(x): return 11*x' 
    >>> mod = imp.new_module('foo')
    >>> exec sourcecode in mod.__dict__
    >>> mod.foo(16)
    176

-- 
Steven Taschuk                staschuk at telusplanet.net
"I tried to be pleasant and accommodating, but my head
 began to hurt from his banality."   -- _Seven_ (1996)




From colinsm.spam-me-not at picsel.com  Wed Jul  9 06:05:14 2003
From: colinsm.spam-me-not at picsel.com (Colin S. Miller)
Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 11:05:14 +0100
Subject: UTF-16-LE and split() under MS-Windows XP
In-Reply-To: <uimgeb.ih5.ln@195.171.216.1>
References: <uimgeb.ih5.ln@195.171.216.1>
Message-ID: <76pgeb.if8.ln@195.171.216.1>

Sorry, attached the wrong data file, correct one is attached this time

Colin S. Miller
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From sujatay at cybage.com  Tue Jul 15 07:05:04 2003
From: sujatay at cybage.com (sujata)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 16:35:04 +0530
Subject: Regarding Thread pooling
Message-ID: <007801c34ac0$f166faa0$31001eac@ud.cybage.com>

Hi,
        I have a query regarding threads.
Is it possible to create thread pools in python.i.e. create threads and then retrieve the memory allocated to it so that the same threads can be used over and over again rather than creating new threads each time i wish to execute functions many times. If its possible plz do let me know how to do so.
Can one have control over memory this way?

Thanking You. 
----------------
Regards,
Sujata Y
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From mis6 at pitt.edu  Tue Jul  1 09:28:47 2003
From: mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato)
Date: 1 Jul 2003 06:28:47 -0700
Subject: Good code patterns in Python
References: <cb035744.0307010149.399df2eb@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <2259b0e2.0307010528.29b95fea@posting.google.com>

hwlgw at hotmail.com (Will Stuyvesant) wrote in message news:<cb035744.0307010149.399df2eb at posting.google.com>...
> If you know that your source code is going to be used
> later by others, then I feel that code with the pattern:
> 
>     if some_condition:
>         some_name = some_value
>     else:
>         some_name = other_value
> 
> is often a mistake.  Much better, safer, would be:
> 
>     some_name = some_value
>     if not some_condition:
>         some_name = other_value

I am sorry, but I feel that the first form is MUCH more readable than the
second one; the first form is crystal clear to me, whereas I must read 
the second form two or three times to understand what it is going on.
I would never follow "guidestyles" suggesting the second one!
I only miss a ternary operator ... ;)


            Michele



From m at moshez.org  Thu Jul 17 09:14:02 2003
From: m at moshez.org (Moshe Zadka)
Date: 17 Jul 2003 13:14:02 -0000
Subject: Replacing rexec
In-Reply-To: <87adbd73f1.fsf@pobox.com>
References: <87adbd73f1.fsf@pobox.com>, <mailman.1058378245.3305.python-list@python.org> <bf455m$1sr$1@panix3.panix.com>
Message-ID: <20030717131402.26541.qmail@green.zadka.com>

[Aahz]
> require forking the code.  Note that it's already too easy to write a
> DoS attack against Python: 100L**100**100 will do it.  Conversely, if
> only trusted code is going into the server, there's no need for rexec.

[John J. Lee]
> I don't see how it's possible to prevent that, whatever language
> you're using.

Limits on memory and CPU ticks used by untrusted code.
This brand new, cutting edge technology is not yet available, and 
LambdaMOO was, of course, a product of Guido misusing the time-machine.
Which doesn't exist itself, either.
-- 
Moshe Zadka -- http://moshez.org/
Buffy: I don't like you hanging out with someone that... short.
Riley: Yeah, a lot of young people nowadays are experimenting with shortness.
Agile Programming Language -- http://www.python.org/




From tomas at fancy.org  Mon Jul 14 23:57:44 2003
From: tomas at fancy.org (Tom Plunket)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 20:57:44 -0700
Subject: anything like C++ references?
References: <000301c348c7$3c501980$21795418@dell1700> <jf22hvotj4n0q5tpkg627e3jv61norf93n@4ax.com> <3F11106A.65FDA8F2@alcyone.com> <iqm2hvs77lhe1m71v9b579070khbf0uv0a@4ax.com> <berqqd$ad5$1@panix3.panix.com> <brs2hv8edfv0d1fch9mha8otuulajnkh0g@4ax.com> <8vd6hv0sdvoitccmnj4pdj66ss2vg4ii3n@4ax.com> <5ir6hvof9m5rjh6i3u992l91un21qtmsh4@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <9iu6hv4r968o9s1n5fh887u2j7an94de4e@4ax.com>

Stephen Horne wrote:

> >Are they really technicalities, though?  I mean, a mutable object
> >can be changed.  It's the same object, just changed.  Immutable
> >objects, however, can't be changed.  You can get something that
> >appears like changing it, but it's actually building a new thing
> >and binding the label to that new thing.
> 
> Yes. But the thing being changed *is* an object, *not* a value. Values
> are always immutable - basic fact of mathematics.

Sure, but we're not modelling pure mathematics, we're modelling a
level of abstraction that's appropriate for the problem that
we're solving.

class Chameleon: pass

a = Chameleon()
b = a

now, a and b represent the same thing.  Say it's a chameleon out
in the woods.

If I say:

a.ClimbTree()

then I expect

b.GetColor()

to return some brown color, since a and b are referring to the
same critter.

We could argue that "color" should be an immutable object within
the chameleon class, and I think argue quite successfully.
However, the chameleon itself doesn't become a different animal,
it still is the same size and has the same scars.

> Variables in mathematics are bound to values. I think Python 
> should be implemented in a way that respects that.

I don't agree, because Python is a language that allows us to
model objects in a way that is comfortable to us.  If I wanted to
use a more mathematically pure language, I would, but that
language would likely not be suited to the problems I'm trying to
solve.

> To me, 'Pythonic' expresses 'doing the right thing'. In this 
> case, in my view, Python does the wrong thing and expects 
> everyone to get used to it.

In my view, Python does largely what I want it to do regardless
of mathematical correctness.

-tom!

-- 
There's really no reason to send a copy of your
followup to my email address, so please don't.



From jjl at pobox.com  Tue Jul  8 11:08:46 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 08 Jul 2003 16:08:46 +0100
Subject: path module
References: <1057651068.5348.386.camel@lothlorien> <mailman.1057656790.5578.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87smphf43l.fsf@pobox.com>

holger krekel <pyth at devel.trillke.net> writes:
[...]
> Recently, i also did some experimentation with "virtual-fs" features so 
> that you can transparently access http/ftp/svn files/directories.  I even 
> got that to work with "<tab>-completion" but that was quite a hack :-)
[...]

Note that this overlaps a bit with urllib and urllib2.  Just something
that would need thinking about.


John



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Tue Jul 22 22:01:16 2003
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 22:01:16 -0400
Subject: How does Mr. Martelli's Borg recipe work ?
References: <764b8294.0307221520.18017b09@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <RMycnbNUaqnpcYCiXTWJjQ@comcast.com>

"Mars" <martin_a_clausen at hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:764b8294.0307221520.18017b09 at posting.google.com...
> I have looked long and hard at Mr. Martelli's Borg recipe:
>
> http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/66531
>
> It is a very useful substitute for a Singleton, but I can't figure
out
> how it works. _shared_state is never assigned any value, only
> self.__dict__ is assigend self._shared_sate's value - or rather
> (self.)_shared_state must be assigned a value at some point,
otherwise
> the code wouldn't work(right ?).

Yes and no.  The 'value' of a name is the object it is assigned to.
In the last line of the 4 line code and only body line of the __init__

class Borg:
    __shared_state = {}
    def __init__(self):
        self.__dict__ = self.__shared_state

the instance name '__dict__' is rebound to the object also called
__shared_state, so that the two names become aliases for the *same*
object (of type dict).  The original instance dict gets unbound from
the name__dict__ and becomes eligible to be garbage collected.  The
same is true for every Borg instance.  Create 100 Borg instances and
there are 101 aliases for one and the same dict.

Now ,
instance.name = value
is (usually) executed behind the scence as
instance.__dict__['name'] = value
where __dict__ is the dict *currently* bound to instance attribute
__dict__.  (One of the exceptions to this is _dict__ itself.)  In the
Borg scheme, that name is no longer bound to the original dict but to
the shared dict.  So nothing is (or at least need be) ever added to
that dict under its first name of __shared_state.

Terry J. Reedy





From candiazoo at mac.com  Sun Jul 13 23:03:00 2003
From: candiazoo at mac.com (Michael S. Jessop)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 03:03:00 GMT
Subject: MacPython and more modules
References: <mailman.1058137221.19385.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <130720032302396565%candiazoo@mac.com>

I do it from the command line.  Invoke the setup.py with the
appropriate python binary (likely to be /usr/local/bin/python2.3) and
it automagically installs to the appropriate site-packages folder under
/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/...

Good luck!

Mike J.

In article <mailman.1058137221.19385.python-list at python.org>,
<cybersamurai at mac.com> wrote:

> I install MacPython 2.3 on a Jaguar 2.6 on my house but I don't know 
> how I install others modules. When I use python setup install the 
> module is installed on usr/lib/... and not inside frameworks. How I can 
> solve this??
> 
> Thanks about help me.
> 
>



From ad at am9atNOSPAMPLEASEspeedy.co.il  Thu Jul 31 04:37:29 2003
From: ad at am9atNOSPAMPLEASEspeedy.co.il (Adam)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 10:37:29 +0200
Subject: Python - Runy Tkinter conflict
Message-ID: <bgagvq$p2j$1@news.iucc.ac.il>

Hi

I had Ruby 1.6.8-8 for Windows installed on my WinXP Pro machine prior 
to installing Python 2.3. After installing Python 2.3, I tried to

<----- screen output of python interactive command line ----->
Python 2.3 (#46, Jul 29 2003, 18:54:32) [MSC v.1200 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
 >>> from Tkinter import *
 >>> root = Tk()
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
   File "C:\Python23\lib\lib-tk\Tkinter.py", line 1564, in __init__
     self.tk = _tkinter.create(screenName, baseName, className)
_tkinter.TclError: Can't find a usable init.tcl in the following 
directories:
     {c:\ruby\tcl\lib\tcl8.3} {c:\ruby\tcl\lib\tcl8.3} 
c:/ruby/tcl/lib/tcl8.4 C:/
Python23/lib/tcl8.4 C:/lib/tcl8.4 C:/library

c:/ruby/tcl/lib/tcl8.3/init.tcl: version conflict for package "Tcl": 
have 8.4, n
eed 8.3
version conflict for package "Tcl": have 8.4, need 8.3
     while executing
"package require -exact Tcl 8.3"
     (file "c:/ruby/tcl/lib/tcl8.3/init.tcl" line 19)
     invoked from within
"source c:/ruby/tcl/lib/tcl8.3/init.tcl"
     ("uplevel" body line 1)
     invoked from within
"uplevel #0 [list source $tclfile]"
c:/ruby/tcl/lib/tcl8.3/init.tcl: version conflict for package "Tcl": 
have 8.4, n
eed 8.3
version conflict for package "Tcl": have 8.4, need 8.3
     while executing
"package require -exact Tcl 8.3"
     (file "c:/ruby/tcl/lib/tcl8.3/init.tcl" line 19)
     invoked from within
"source c:/ruby/tcl/lib/tcl8.3/init.tcl"
     ("uplevel" body line 1)
     invoked from within
"uplevel #0 [list source $tclfile]"


This probably means that Tcl wasn't installed properly.
</----- screen output of python interactive command line ----->

After uninstalling Ruby 1.6.8-8 I tried again:

<----- screen output of python interactive command line ----->
 >>> root = Tk()
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
   File "C:\Python23\lib\lib-tk\Tkinter.py", line 1564, in __init__
     self.tk = _tkinter.create(screenName, baseName, className)
_tkinter.TclError: Can't find a usable init.tcl in the following 
directories:
     {c:\ruby\tcl\lib\tcl8.3} {c:\ruby\tcl\lib\tcl8.3} 
c:/ruby/tcl/lib/tcl8.4 C:/
Python23/lib/tcl8.4 C:/lib/tcl8.4 C:/library



This probably means that Tcl wasn't installed properly.
</----- screen output of python interactive command line ----->

Tkinter started working with Python 2.3 only after 
uninstalling/reinstalling Python.

Is this considered a bug?  Should I post this somewhere else?

Adam




From chris.gonnerman at newcenturycomputers.net  Thu Jul 24 08:32:32 2003
From: chris.gonnerman at newcenturycomputers.net (Chris Gonnerman)
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 07:32:32 -0500
Subject: [Python] Re: [OT] On the TimBot
References: <mailman.1058834554.32124.python-list@python.org> <f3cf8593.0307232359.1bc1d19d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <002c01c351df$a7dde580$2100000a@house>

----- Original Message -----
From: "TZOTZIOY remotely" <tzot at sil-tec.gr>


> "Delaney, Timothy C (Timothy)" <tdelaney at avaya.com> wrote in message
news:<mailman.1058834554.32124.python-list at python.org>...
> > > From: Christos "TZOTZIOY" Georgiou [mailto:tzot at sil-tec.gr]
> > >
> > > what's the use of a Bit that's always true?
> >
> > Well, it compresses really well ...
>
> Yes, a single unchanging bit in time compresses very well (contrary to
> a single bit at a specific moment in time).  But compressibility is an
> attribute, not a use :)

Doorstop?

Chris Gonnerman -- chris.gonnerman at newcenturycomputers.net
http://newcenturycomputers.net






From jepler at unpythonic.net  Wed Jul  2 11:56:28 2003
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 10:56:28 -0500
Subject: How to keep a Tkinter-Dialog on top of all other windows?
In-Reply-To: <E580CB8FBC72D211A94A00A0C9B5729205F6CFA0@jasc.com>
References: <E580CB8FBC72D211A94A00A0C9B5729205F6CFA0@jasc.com>
Message-ID: <20030702155627.GB19446@unpythonic.net>

On Wed, Jul 02, 2003 at 10:44:43AM -0500, Joe Fromm wrote:
> Windows actually has two z-orders.  Topmost windows and normal windows.  All
> topmost windows are always above normal windows.
> 
> So setting a window into the topmost group will keep it on top of your app
> with one call, but it will remain topmost even if another application is
> activated.  If that is acceptable to you then setting it to topmost is
> indeed a simpler solution.

Oh.

If you just want to enforce window stacking between two toplevels in
your application, you can use "wm transient" for this.
    t = Tkinter.Tk()
    u = Tkinter.Toplevel(t)
    u.wm_transient(t)
    t.mainloop()

however, "wm transient" has other effects (TRANSIENT_STYLE, does not
appear on task bar, etc).

Jeff




From gh at ghaering.de  Mon Jul 21 18:08:52 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 00:08:52 +0200
Subject: Problem building extension sample with Python 2.2.3
In-Reply-To: <da3bb005.0307211216.22425dec@posting.google.com>
References: <da3bb005.0307211216.22425dec@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3F1C6474.8050100@ghaering.de>

Bren wrote:
> Hi, 
> 
> I'm trying to build the sample extension file from
> http://www.python.org/doc/current/ext/simpleExample.html.
> 
> I get a linker error: [...]

Use distutils.

See http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/66509

Then use "python setup.py build" to build the extension module.

HTH,

-- Gerhard




From mwh at python.net  Wed Jul 16 11:26:41 2003
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 15:26:41 GMT
Subject: docs  html-2.3.0.tar.bz2  - is there anything yet?
References: <3f156610$0$300$ba620e4c@reader1.news.skynet.be>
Message-ID: <7h3y8yylcs8.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

Helmut Jarausch <jarausch at skynet.be> writes:

> Hi,
> I am running Python's CVS version and I would like to install
> the 2.3 version of the html documentation (as requested by Idle, e.g.)
> Is there already such a file or can it be built from XML? sources
> contained in the distribution? At least, I haven't found a configure
> option.

Hmm.  You can browse it online at

    http://www.python.org/dev/doc/devel/

but there don't seem to be tarballs of very recent docs.  You can get
the 2.3b2 docs from

    http://www.python.org/ftp/python/doc/2.3b2/

or you can wait a few days for the 2.3c1 docs (I think).

As you seem to be on Linux, it's not hard to build the docs from the
(LaTeX) source: try cd-ing into Doc/ and typing make.  Installing all
the needed tools can be a bit annoying, but recently I've found
everything comes with the base install of (eg.) RedHat systems.

Cheers,
M.

-- 
  Screaming 14-year-old boys attempting to prove to each other that
  they are more 3133t than j00.
         -- Reason #8 for quitting slashdot today, from
            http://www.cs.washington.edu/homes/klee/misc/slashdot.html



From vze4rx4y at verizon.net  Thu Jul 17 01:10:52 2003
From: vze4rx4y at verizon.net (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 05:10:52 GMT
Subject: Documentation examples needed
References: <aUnRa.16108$o54.11296@lakeread05>
Message-ID: <wdqRa.2029$0F4.1856@nwrdny02.gnilink.net>

Hi Stuart,

The simplest way to get started with Python standard LaTeX markup
is to cut-and-paste from existing TeX files.  Then follow-up with a
script to perform basic checks:  see the current CVS for

   Tools/scripts/texcheck.py

It will check for valid TeX markup, balanced delimiters, style warnings,
and common markup errors (for example, confusing forward and
backward slashes).

A better way to get started is to actually read the Documenting Python
section.  In the end, you'll save more time and learn more than
the try-it and see if it works method.


Raymond Hettinger



"Stuart D. Gathman" <stuart at bmsi.com> wrote in message
news:aUnRa.16108$o54.11296 at lakeread05...
> I am still wanting to produce Python standard format documentation for
> Python extensions I have written.  I have looked at the docs that come
> with Python itself, but I am new to Latex, and don't know how to add the
> document classes and styles from texinput for a new project.
>
> Is there a small project with documentation in the Python standard that I
> can use as an example?
>
> --
>       Stuart D. Gathman <stuart at bmsi.com>
> Business Management Systems Inc.  Phone: 703 591-0911 Fax: 703 591-6154
> "Confutatis maledictis, flamis acribus addictis" - background song for
> a Microsoft sponsored "Where do you want to go from here?" commercial.





From schull at digitalgoods.com  Mon Jul 14 15:03:49 2003
From: schull at digitalgoods.com (Jon Schull)
Date: 14 Jul 2003 12:03:49 -0700
Subject: Securing PyDoc and CGIHTTPserver
References: <2621b014.0307100535.449ad06f@posting.google.com> <3F0D7887.9D069ED0@engcorp.com> <xqx3chexplh.fsf@cola2.ca.boeing.com> <3F0E136A.6222F201@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <2621b014.0307140819.491f7696@posting.google.com>

Well, for what its worth, I was thinking about "sniffing, spoofing, or
main-in-the-middle attacks", and I was hoping for something I could
stick into a program for unsophisticated users (e.g, those to whom one
might give a notepad-like application, albeit with a local webserver
interface).

Everyone who connects to the internet should have a firewall BUT must
all who import httpserver implement or insist on a firewall for all
their users?  Realistically?  I don't want to think so.

 
> Uh, yeah.... but the OP wasn't asking about sniffing, spoofing, or
> main-in-the-middle attacks, near as I can tell, nor about using 
> encryption.  He was suggesting an unusual modification to one or
> more applications which would otherwise be decoupled from security,
> by adding into them features which are better handled by firewalls.
> 

> "Security through Obscurity" (e.g., random ports) is not the way to
> go.  Instead, use SSL.  This can be done through a CGI on Apache
> through an SSL'd port, or it can be done with stunnel.  [Or it might
> even be done with raw python using pyOpenSSL or M2Crypto (which I
> haven't done, so I can't tell you anything that direction).]



From mwh at python.net  Mon Jul 21 08:30:25 2003
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 12:30:25 GMT
Subject: properties + types, implementing meta-class desciptors elegantly?
References: <mailman.1058532630.7342.python-list@python.org> <7h3znjbzscu.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <7h3n0f8yspt.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

Michael Hudson <mwh at python.net> writes:

> "Mike C. Fletcher" <mcfletch at rogers.com> writes:
> 
> > So, does anyone have a pattern which allows setting an attribute on
> > a class which doesn't go through the setattr machinery (i.e. can be
> > used within a descriptor)?
> 
> No.  Fun problem to think about, though :-)

Actually, that was a lie.  Check this horror out:

class MetaProp(object):
    def __init__(self, val):
        self.val = val
    def __get__(self, ob, cls=None):
        for k in ob.__class__.__dict__:
            if ob.__class__.__dict__[k] is self:
                delattr(ob.__class__, k)
                break
        else:
            raise Exception, 'not found'
        setattr(ob, k, self.val + 1)
        setattr(ob.__class__, k, self)
        return self.val

class Meta(type):
    p = MetaProp(1)

class C:
    __metaclass__ = Meta

print C.__dict__.keys()
print C.p
print C.__dict__.keys()
print C.p

I'm quite proud of this one :-)

Cheers,
mwh

-- 
3. Syntactic sugar causes cancer of the semicolon.
  -- Alan Perlis, http://www.cs.yale.edu/homes/perlis-alan/quotes.html



From Olivier.POYEN at clf-dexia.com  Fri Jul 18 04:31:58 2003
From: Olivier.POYEN at clf-dexia.com (POYEN OP Olivier (DCL))
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 10:31:58 +0200
Subject: dumping command-history in python interactive mode
Message-ID: <8963D6370B323E4AA3241200F0EAF7318C0FCC@FCEXVEXM002.dcl.int.dexwired.net>



> -----Message d'origine-----
> De : Christoph Becker-Freyseng [mailto:christoph at mmc-startup.com]
> Envoy? : vendredi 18 juillet 2003 00:09
> ? : python-list
> Objet : dumping command-history in python interactive mode
> 
> 
> Hello,
> 
> is there a way to dump (and save) the command-history of the python 
> interactive mode.
> 
> Thanks,
>    Christoph Becker-Freyseng
> 
> 
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 



ipython does it quite well, I think. 
But perhaps you don't want session recording, but only state recording. Then all you have to do is ikling some globals, which may be easir. 


HTH

---OPQ
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From sybrenUSE at YOURthirdtower.imagination.com  Tue Jul 15 07:06:09 2003
From: sybrenUSE at YOURthirdtower.imagination.com (Sybren Stuvel)
Date: 15 Jul 2003 11:06:09 GMT
Subject: [OT] Re: Single or Double quotes [was Re: PyQT, Sharp Zaurus and color in the QTextBrowser]
References: <slrnbh60lj.3jm.sybrenUSE@sybren.thirdtower.com> <mailman.1058214925.28095.python-list@python.org> <3F132103.4D18759F@engcorp.com> <mailman.1058220622.19636.python-list@python.org> <pan.2003.07.14.23.07.15.471632@jerf.org>
Message-ID: <slrnbh7o11.61k.sybrenUSE@sybren.thirdtower.com>

Jeremy Bowers enlightened us with:
> At no point is it ever specified either way in the XHTML
> specification, except by reference to the XML specification.

I'm sorry to tell you, but you're wrong in that. It is clearly stated in
the HTML 4.01 specification at
http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/intro/sgmltut.html#h-3.2.2

I found that by going to the index, looking up the item "attibutes" and
then clicking the link at "quotation marks around value". Not that hard
to find.

The XML specification of attributes can be found at
http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-xml#sec-common-syn and is a little harder to
find, but not impossible.

Since XHTML 1.0 is defined as "A Reformulation of HTML 4 in XML 1.0",
this should be enough to also allow single and double quoted attribute
values in XHTML.

Sybren
-- 
The problem with the world is stupidity. Not saying there should be a
capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the
safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself? 



From minceme at start.no  Tue Jul 15 20:46:08 2003
From: minceme at start.no (Vlad Tepes)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 00:46:08 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: parsing complex web pages
References: <mailman.1055971051.1456.python-list@python.org> <873ci7x80p.fsf@pobox.com> <mailman.1055994212.5052.python-list@python.org> <87r85qqnn9.fsf@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <bf278g$s4f$1@troll.powertech.no>

John J. Lee <jjl at pobox.com> wrote:
> John Hunter <jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu> writes:
>> >>>>> "John" == John J Lee <jjl at pobox.com> writes:
>>     John> If it works well for you, why not stick with it?
> [...]
>> It did cause me to wonder though, whether some good python html->text
>> converters which render the html as text (ie, preserve visual layout),
>> were lurking out their beneath my radar screen.
>
> If they exist, it's unlikely they'll do as good a job as lynx (in
> general, not talking about Yahoo in particular), because there is so
> much awful HTML out there.  lynx has been around a long time.

And if lynx don't do what you want there's also other text browsers
available. links, elinks and w3m can also dump text-files, and all of
them handle tables better than lynx (at least for viewing).

Looking at the sizes for these browsers, maybe it would be best to use
w3m for dumping webpages:

:!ls -l `which lynx links elinks w3m`
-rwxr-xr-x    root       619004 Jul 18  2001 /usr/bin/links
-rwxr-xr-x    root       807132 Jan 14  2003 /usr/local/bin/elinks
-rwxr-xr-x    root      1111090 Jan 21 19:58 /usr/local/bin/lynx
-rwxr-xr-x    root       351008 Jan 24 01:08 /usr/local/bin/w3m

-- 
Vlad



From wilkSPAM at OUTflibuste.net  Mon Jul 28 14:21:23 2003
From: wilkSPAM at OUTflibuste.net (Wilk)
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 20:21:23 +0200
Subject: Python vs. Perl vs. PHP?
References: <7b454334.0307281002.41dae81b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <87oezebjh8.fsf@flibuste.net>

faizan at jaredweb.com (Fazer) writes:

> Hello,
>
> I am an avid user of PHP and I am just fooling around with Python for
> now.  I originally wanted to know which one is faster.  As in, works
> faster.  So far, I think PHP is the fastest for dynamic web-content. 
> Am I wrong?

yes for two reasons, one relative, one more objective :

- you'll write cleaner and shorter programs with python, so more easy to
  optimize
- when you'll really need speed, you'll write standalone web-server with
  python, and so a lot more eficient and fast in high trafic.

I've rewrite my "high" trafic web site from php to python and gain 10x of
speed.

-- 
William Dode - http://flibuste.net



From tchur at optushome.com.au  Sat Jul  5 18:45:26 2003
From: tchur at optushome.com.au (Tim Churches)
Date: 06 Jul 2003 08:45:26 +1000
Subject: Frustration with spurious posts.
In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20030705095656.01a4e060@66.28.54.253>
References: <5.2.1.1.0.20030705095656.01a4e060@66.28.54.253>
Message-ID: <1057445126.1204.4.camel@emilio>

On Sun, 2003-07-06 at 01:58, Bob Gailer wrote:
> Does anyone know why we keep getting these posted to the list. Is there a 
> way to stop it?

SpamBayes works a treat to filter these out - see
http://www.spambayes.org

Tim C

> 
> Undeliverable: Re: Movie
> 
> At 03:56 PM 7/5/2003 +0100, postmaster at bthub01.bt.com wrote:
> 
> >Your message
> >
> >   To:      N.Winton at axion.bt.co.uk
> >   Subject: Re: Movie
> >   Sent:    Sat, 5 Jul 2003 15:59:01 +0100
> >
> >did not reach the following recipient(s):
> >
> >N.Winton at axion.bt.co.uk on Sat, 5 Jul 2003 15:56:09 +0100
> >     The recipient name is not recognized
> >         The MTS-ID of the original message is:
> >c=gb;a=bt;p=bt;l=CBIBIPNT0803070514563GAHP1WW
> >     MSEXCH:IMS:EXCHANGE:BTHUB01:CBIBIPNT08 3550 (000B09B6) 550 5.1.1
> ><N.Winton at axion.bt.co.uk>... User unknown
> 
> 
> Bob Gailer
> bgailer at alum.rpi.edu
> 303 442 2625
> 
> ______________________________________________________________________
> ---
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.492 / Virus Database: 291 - Release Date: 6/24/2003
-- 

Tim C

PGP/GnuPG Key 1024D/EAF993D0 available from keyservers everywhere
or at http://members.optushome.com.au/tchur/pubkey.asc
Key fingerprint = 8C22 BF76 33BA B3B5 1D5B  EB37 7891 46A9 EAF9 93D0


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From tomas at fancy.org  Sat Jul 12 16:53:35 2003
From: tomas at fancy.org (Tom Plunket)
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 13:53:35 -0700
Subject: anything like C++ references?
Message-ID: <13t0hvsb7idh0g6ac3upe5k0qd6flc17ah@4ax.com>

I want to do something along the lines of the following C++ code:

void change(int& i)
{
   i++;
}


Is there any way to do references like this in Python?  It'd be
like this, though clearly this doesn't change the thing I want it
to change:

def change(val):
   val += 1

v = 0
change(v)

# v == 1 now.

thanks.

I can see that maybe if I passed in a list of one integer I could
change that, but that seems circuitous to me.


-tom!



From xbawolkx at pacbell.net  Mon Jul  7 01:23:09 2003
From: xbawolkx at pacbell.net (Bruce Wolk)
Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 05:23:09 GMT
Subject: Newbie question: Strange TypeError
In-Reply-To: <pan.2003.07.07.04.09.36.145173@yahoo.com>
References: <pan.2003.07.07.04.09.36.145173@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1t7Oa.40$DX3.7244067@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com>

Tim Isakson wrote:
> Howdy,
> 
> I'm a new python programmer - new to python, not so much to programming - 
> my background was mainly C, with some C++, but it's rusty.  
> 
> I'm learning python to try and get back into some coding,
> and am running into a problem - I'm writing a calculator in python and
> wxPython as an exercise to learn both, and the following problem is
> leaving me baffled.
> 
> I have an event handler, and it's getting called fine - but within the
> event handler, I'm calling a class method, HandleInput.  The definition
> and call are shown below:
> 
>     def HandleInput(self, input):
>         if self.results.GetValue() == "0":
>             return input
>         elif newVal == True:
>             return input
>         else:
>             tmpVal = self.results.GetValue() + input
>             return tmpVal
> 
>     def OnButton1(self,e):
>         tmpVal = self.HandleInput(self, "1")
>         self.results.SetValue(tmpVal)
> 
> The call to HandleInput is made, but I get the following error:
> 
> Calling HandleInput(self, '1')
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "pycalc.py", line 115, in OnButton1
>     tmpVal = self.HandleInput(self, "1")
> TypeError: HandleInput() takes exactly 2 arguments (3 given)
> 
> So far as I can tell, the offending call *IS* calling HandleInput with 2
> arguments, but the interpreter obviously thinks different, and I'm at a
> loss as to why that might be.
> 
> I'm sure I'm doing something odd and not noticing, and I'd appreciate any
> help you can provide!
> 
> Thanks in advance,
> 
> Tim

The error message gave you what you needed.  Bound methods, when called, 
do not supply an argument for the first formal parameter ("self" by 
convention).  Since HandleInput was defined using two formal parameters, 
it must called using only one.  So change the offending statement to

tmpVal = self.HandleInput("1")

-- 
______
Bruce Wolk

Remove the x's in the e-mail address




From vimakefile at yahoo.com  Mon Jul 21 17:51:29 2003
From: vimakefile at yahoo.com (MBR)
Date: 21 Jul 2003 14:51:29 -0700
Subject: recognizing empty iterators
References: <2259b0e2.0307210626.11a1bbf1@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <b0f19a70.0307211351.1af97d52@posting.google.com>

I guess you could create a BufferedIterator wrapper/mixin that holds
at most one object ahead. (Would only need to cache when IsEmpty was
asked.) Of course, whether this counts as a side-effect depends on
your interator and its use...

mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato) wrote in message news:<2259b0e2.0307210626.11a1bbf1 at posting.google.com>...
> After a recent thread on .endswith, I have been thinking about iterators.
> I realized that I don't know a satisfactory way to check if an
> iterator is empty. In other words I am looking for an
> "isempty" function to use in "if" statements such as
> 
> if isempty(iterator):
>    do_something()
> 
> without side effects. Here are some unsatisfactory ways of implementing
> "isempty":
> 
> #1: converting to a list or tuple
> def isempty(iterator):
>     return not list(iterator)
> 
> Easy, but one has to create the entire list, thus defecting the basic
> purpose of the iterator, i.e. lazy evaluation.
> 
> #2: checking for StopIteration
> def isempty(iterator):
>     try:
>         iterator.next()
>     except StopIteration:
>         return True
>     else:
>         return False
> 
> This works, for instance
> 
> print isempty(iter([]))
> 
> gives True and 
> 
> it=iter([1,2,3])
> print isempty(it)
> 
> gives False. However, there is a side effect: after the check, the
> iterator has advanced of one step and now "it.next()" gives 2, not 1. 
> In order this to work without side effects, I should be able to restart 
> the iterator from the beginning, but I don't know how to do that.
> Is it possible?
> 
> #3: comparing with the empty iterator
> 
> emptyiterator=iter([])
> 
> it=iter([])
> 
> if it == emptyiterator: print 'Ok!'
> 
> This simply doesn't work.
> 
> I wonder if the itertools module should contain a function to check for
> empty iterators, thus simplifying my life ;) Of course, I may well be
> missing something obvious, if so, please enlighten me.
> 
> 
>                 Michele



From wim_wauters at skynet.be  Tue Jul 15 17:18:32 2003
From: wim_wauters at skynet.be (WIWA)
Date: 15 Jul 2003 14:18:32 -0700
Subject: UDP client-server problem
Message-ID: <538fc8e.0307151318.12551933@posting.google.com>

Hi,

I want to make a UDP client server application that is conform to
RFC868 (Time protocol). Both the UDP client and UDP server are in a
test phase.

The question is: when I add  "svrsocket.sendto(resultaat, (ip, port))"
in the UDP server, my application closes while running. When I leave
it away, it works fine. I really need this statement as the purpose is
that a client sends sth to the server and the server sends back the
time ticks.

Anybody an idea how I can modifu my client/server so that it works?

Regards,

Wim


Here is the server:

# UDP server example
import time
import socket
import string
import string

class Tijd:
   def __init__(self, hours=0,minutes=0,seconds=0):
       self.hours=hours
       self.minutes=minutes
       self.seconds=seconds

   def aantal_seconden(self):
       x = time.time()
       y=(1970, 1, 1, 1, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0)
       y=time.mktime(y)
       resultaat=x-y
       return resultaat

if __name__=="__main__":
   tijd=Tijd()
   resultaat=tijd.aantal_seconden()
   print 'resultaat',resultaat

   port=37

   svrsocket = socket.socket(socket.AF_INET, socket.SOCK_DGRAM)
   svrsocket.bind(('', port))

   hostname = socket.gethostname()
   ip = socket.gethostbyname(hostname)
   print 'TOD server is at IP adress: ', ip

   tijd=time.ctime()
   tijd=string.split(time.ctime())
   print 'The current time is', tijd[3]
   print 'Listening for TOD-requests on port %s ...' %port

   while 1:
       data, address = svrsocket.recvfrom(256)
       print 'Received a TOD-request from modem with IP-address %s'
%address[0]
       print 'Sending back the time to modem with
IP-address',address[0]
       print "time", resultaat
       svrsocket.sendto(resultaat, (ip, port))


And here is the client:

# UDP client example
import socket
port=37
clisocket = socket.socket(socket.AF_INET, socket.SOCK_DGRAM)
while 1:
    data = raw_input("Type something: ")
    if data:
        clisocket.sendto(data, ("127.0.0.1", port))
    else:
       
        break
s.close()



From jon+usenet at unequivocal.co.uk  Wed Jul 30 13:33:48 2003
From: jon+usenet at unequivocal.co.uk (Jon Ribbens)
Date: 30 Jul 2003 17:33:48 GMT
Subject: Web tool kit : pro - cons ?
References: <3f23003f$0$266$ba620e4c@reader0.news.skynet.be> <3f23034d$0$49103$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl> <3f230835$0$280$ba620e4c@reader0.news.skynet.be> <mailman.1059268366.2051.python-list@python.org> <3f23b02b$0$276$ba620e4c@reader1.news.skynet.be> <mailman.1059332921.14965.python-list@python.org> <240b1020.0307292149.2cb95a13@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <slrnbig0bs.f6c.jon+usenet@snowy.squish.net>

In article <240b1020.0307292149.2cb95a13 at posting.google.com>, Jeffrey P Shell wrote:
> I work with some very talented designers.  It used to be that they
> would give us (the developers) their designs and we'd rip them to
> shreds and they could never touch them again.  Because now they were
> in little bits and pieces and stuffed full of tags-within-tags, with
> silly things like 'standard_html_header' and 'standard_html_footer'
> (never really fitting a technical definition of header once complex
> designs enter the equation) making it very painful to apply what they
> would thing were rudimentary design changes.

jonpy works around this problem while also avoiding the limitations of
XML. The templates contain no code at all except <!--wt:name-->
"magic comments" and $$name$$ replacements. Both of these survive the
files being mangled by HTML editors and keeping as much as possible
out of the HTML file means that if you get given brand new
from-scratch design it is still a quick job to 're-templatify' the new
HTML.



From bgailer at alum.rpi.edu  Thu Jul 24 12:05:30 2003
From: bgailer at alum.rpi.edu (Bob Gailer)
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 10:05:30 -0600
Subject: Mystery Theater New Style Classes
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20030724100432.01d9d460@66.28.54.253>

Predict the output:

class A(int):
     classval = 99
     def __init__(self, val = 0):
         if val:
             self = val
         else:
             self = A.classval
a=A(3)
b=A()
print a,b

Bob Gailer
bgailer at alum.rpi.edu
303 442 2625
-------------- next part --------------

---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.500 / Virus Database: 298 - Release Date: 7/10/2003

From richie at entrian.com  Tue Jul 29 11:01:26 2003
From: richie at entrian.com (Richie Hindle)
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 16:01:26 +0100
Subject: gzip HTTP results problem
In-Reply-To: <bg61ec$u3i$1@main.gmane.org>
References: <003401c355c1$cb6949f0$6400a8c0@EVOD31> <bg61ec$u3i$1@main.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <5u2div8fp3cmsvs8ifk99ancnm1vh006hp@4ax.com>

[Fredrik]
> this might help:
> 
>     http://effbot.org/zone/consumer-gzip.htm
> 
> (that piece of code is used in production code, so it should
> work...)

This looks wrong to me:

            except IndexError:
                self.data = data

Shouldn't it be:

            except IndexError:
                self.__data = data

?

-- 
Richie Hindle
richie at entrian.com





From t.leeuwenburg at removme.bom.gov.au  Thu Jul 17 20:38:46 2003
From: t.leeuwenburg at removme.bom.gov.au (Tennessee James Leeuwenburg)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 10:38:46 +1000
Subject: Jython classpath question
References: <pan.2003.07.17.02.29.12.502474@removme.bom.gov.au> <mailman.1058434712.21226.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2003.07.18.00.38.45.833146@removme.bom.gov.au>

Thanks All.

-Tennessee



From deets_noospaam at web.de  Mon Jul 28 14:58:10 2003
From: deets_noospaam at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 20:58:10 +0200
Subject: newbie needs a little help... trying to write an ftp script.
References: <e84f5d12.0307281040.42a19391@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bg3ro2$96q$03$1@news.t-online.com>

> import ftplib
> 
> ftp = ftplib.FTP('172.30.30.30')  # This is wrong,  somehow...?
> ftp.login(user,pass)
> ftp.retrlines('LIST')  # I believe it might need to be
> ftp.retrlines('ls -al')
> ftp.sendcmd('prompt')
> ftp.cwd('folder')
> ftp.retrbinary(retr *tgz)
> ftp.quit()

Your example worked fine with me for "ftp.suse.com" - at least the first 3
lines. It didn't understand ls -al and prompt, and a folder "folder" didn't
exist of course.

The ftp.retrbinary(retr *tgz) is also flawed - what is retr, a variable? I
think you need to look up that command again. And *tgz can't be right, too.
You most probably want "*tgz" there (a string literal)

ftp.quit() works.

Diez




From mrchameleon at hotmail.com  Tue Jul 29 22:43:22 2003
From: mrchameleon at hotmail.com (Chris Reay)
Date: 29 Jul 2003 19:43:22 -0700
Subject: curses and use_default_colors()
References: <slrnbidnj4.koh.bhv1@pa-steclge-u3-c3b-133.stcgpa.adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <7652139e.0307291843.2ade58c6@posting.google.com>

Brian Victor <bhv1 at psu.edu> wrote in message news:<slrnbidnj4.koh.bhv1 at pa-steclge-u3-c3b-133.stcgpa.adelphia.net>...
> I am attempting to write a curses-based program.  I would like to use
> the default terminal background rather than a black one (a significant
> difference with transluscent terminals, regardless of one's opinion of
> them).
<snip>

I don't know how much this'll help, but my home-brewed curses TextApp
class has a white-on-blue default, and TextApp.startWin() contains
these lines (inter alia) ...

# ... blah, blah, blah.
curses.start_color()
curses.init_pair(1, curses.COLOR_WHITE, curses.COLOR_BLUE)
# ... blah, blah, blah ...
self.scrn = self.stdscr.subwin(self.height, self.width, 0, 0)
self.scrn.bkgd(curses.color_pair(1))
# Blah, blah, blah ...

Fwiw

Chris



From bokr at oz.net  Tue Jul 29 00:27:21 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 29 Jul 2003 04:27:21 GMT
Subject: pretty printing graphs
References: <mailman.1059413382.3564.python-list@python.org> <2259b0e2.0307281530.218400ae@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bg4t39$g1f$0@216.39.172.122>

On 28 Jul 2003 16:30:03 -0700, mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato) wrote:

>"Scherer, Bill" <Bill.Scherer at verizonwireless.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.1059413382.3564.python-list at python.org>...
>
>Hey "dot" is great! I didn't know about it before readin your post.
>
>In a very short time I came out with the following recipe to draw
>Python inheritance hierarchies (which I post since it is pretty
>short and useful ;):
>
>
>"How to draw inheritance hierarchies via dot"
>
>import os
>
>def label(i,n):
>    if n>1: return '[label="%s"]' % (i+1)
>    return ""
>
>def dotMRO(cls):
>    "Generates the dot code for the MRO directed graph"
>    yield "digraph MRO_of_%s{\n" % cls.__name__
>    for c in cls.__mro__:
>        n=len(c.__bases__)
>        yield ' '.join(['  %s -> %s %s;' % (b.__name__,c.__name__,label(i,n))
>                         for i,b in enumerate(c.__bases__)])
>    yield '}'
>
># Example hierarchy    
>O = object
>class F(O): pass
>class E(O): pass
>class D(O): pass
>class G(O): pass
>class C(F,D,G): pass
>class B(E,D): pass
>class A(B,C): pass
>
># creates the graph
>dotcode='\n'.join(dotMRO(A)); print dotcode
>os.system('echo "%s" | dot -Tps > prova.ps' % dotcode)
>os.system('gv prova.ps&')
>
>Assuming you have "dot" and the standard Unix tools installed this 
>will generate a very nice diagram. I am open to suggestion to improve it,  
>since this is may first trial with "dot". I am quite impressed by the
>easy of use.
>
>Very nice!
>
Decided to try the tree print I did for John Hunter in pphunter.py on your class tree:
explore is just a quick-n-dirty to make the tree.

====< mrog.py >=====================
# Example hierarchy    
O = object
class F(O): pass
class E(O): pass
class D(O): pass
class G(O): pass
class C(F,D,G): pass
class B(E,D): pass
class A(B,C): pass

import pphunter
def explore(cls, tree):
    node = pphunter.Node(pphunter.TextBox(cls.__name__))
    tree.children.append(node)
    for b in cls.__bases__: explore(b, node)

root = pphunter.Node(pphunter.TextBox('root'))
explore(A, root)
print root.children[0].showInPage(20, 60)
====================================

Result:

[21:26] C:\pywk\clp>python mrog.py
                            +-+
                            |A|
                            +-+

           +-+                           +-+
           |B|                           |C|
           +-+                           +-+

     +-+          +-+         +-+        +-+        +-+
     |E|          |D|         |F|        |D|        |G|
     +-+          +-+         +-+        +-+        +-+

   +------+     +------+    +------+   +------+   +------+
   |object|     |object|    |object|   |object|   |object|
   +------+     +------+    +------+   +------+   +------+

I guess I will have to do connector lines ;-)

BTW, I found a bug in the showInPage method of pphunter.Node. It should be

--
    def showInPage(self, pageHeight=6*11, pageWidth=78):
        return '\n'.join(self.boxlines(pageHeight, pageWidth))
--
(I capitalized pageHeight and page Width) . Boo :-(
(see 'pretty printing graphs' thread).



Regards,
Bengt Richter



From drlinux at columbus.rr.com  Wed Jul  9 10:17:49 2003
From: drlinux at columbus.rr.com (Dave Reed)
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 10:17:49 -0400
Subject: Application Development in Python
In-Reply-To: <3089454.1057738936@dbforums.com>
References: <3089454.1057738936@dbforums.com>
Message-ID: <200307091017.49419.drlinux@columbus.rr.com>

On Wednesday 09 July 2003 04:22, indru wrote:
> Hi all,
> I am new to Python programming. I am from C,C++,Perl background. I am
> quite convinced by the possibilities python as a very high level
> language is offering. I am seriously thinking of using python in my
> project which is to create a accounting software. First thing came to 
my
> mind was C++ but the time required could be enormous and my people are
> not ready to wait that long. The project is a medium sized one but
> bigger than something like gnucash and KMyMoney2. Do any body have
> experience with application development using python and their
> experiences ?.   Also please advice me whether Python can be used for
> such purposes.
> Thanks in advance
> Indru


Of course!

I wrote a 24,000 Python program that uses pygtk/gnome (interfaces were
created with glade) and postgresql. It's a patient database/accounting
package for my wife's optometric office. It does double entry
accounting to handle all the monetary transactions and generate
reports for their accountant. It also keeps track of their frame
inventory, does insurance reimbursement calculations for the
insurances they accept, and many, many, other things.  About 1,000 of
that 24,000 lines of code is strings that hold PostScript code for
printing out receipts, etc.

It took me about 300 hours including design time. I've got 22 years of
programming experience (the last 3.5 years almost exclusively in
Python) so YMMV on coding time. I use gnucash for my personal finances
and IMO, the system I wrote is more complex than a basic accounting
system such as gnucash (which I use for my personal finances),
although using Postgresql to store all the data greatly reduces the
amount of code you have to write to manipulate the data. So my guess
is fairly full featured accounting system could be written in less
than 24,000 lines of Python code if you use a database to store all
the actual data. 

Also note that using the database for manipulating the data makes the
speed very acceptable. I'm almost certain that manipulating the data
in Python would be way too slow to make it usable (e.g., generating a
balance sheet that looks through all the transactions and groups them
by account in Python would be much slower than using sql commands to
do that).

Have fun!

Dave






From bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au  Fri Jul 18 07:23:42 2003
From: bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au (Ben Finney)
Date: 18 Jul 2003 21:13:42 +0950
Subject: dumping command-history in python interactive mode
References: <mailman.1058479887.12228.python-list@python.org> <bf84ot$4iq$1@slb0.atl.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <slrnbhf5pr.3i2.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>

On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 23:40:22 -0700, Matt Gerrans wrote:
> "Christoph Becker-Freyseng" wrote:
>> is there a way to dump (and save) the command-history of the python
>> interactive mode.
> 
> I always prefer IDLE over the console interactive mode, unless there
> is some particular reason not to (like experimenting with TKinter, or
> running in a non-GUI OS.  What?   Where you find such a thing these
> days?!).

Any of millions of Unix (or GNU/Linux) servers around the world.
Running a GUI on a machine that won't have someone sitting in front of
it most of the time it's being used, is just bloat and is yet more code
to go wrong.

-- 
 \      "The face of a child can say it all, especially the mouth part |
  `\                                     of the face."  -- Jack Handey |
_o__)                                                                  |
http://bignose.squidly.org/ 9CFE12B0 791A4267 887F520C B7AC2E51 BD41714B



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Thu Jul  3 17:14:04 2003
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 17:14:04 -0400
Subject: getting a submatrix of all true
References: <mailman.1057173484.29754.python-list@python.org><giqdnXMMi6WpV56iXTWJgQ@comcast.com> <mailman.1057250709.8853.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <GCWdnbbv6I0AAZmiU-KYuQ@comcast.com>

"John Hunter" <jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu> wrote in message
news:mailman.1057250709.8853.python-list at python.org...
> >>>>> "Terry" == Terry Reedy <tjreedy at udel.edu> writes:
>
>
>     Terry> Statisticians have tried a variety of approaches.
Googling
>     Terry> for ' statistics "missing data" 'will give you some leads
>     Terry> if you want.
>
> I have done some searching.  I'm familiar with the common methods
> (delete every row that contains any missing, replace missing via
mean
> or regression or something clever) but haven't seen any discussion
of
> dropping variables and observations together to yield data sets with
> no missing values.  Have you seen something like this?

There are also calculation methods for at least some analyses that
allow for missing data .  One of the google hits is for the book
Statistical Analysis with Missing Data.  I have not seen it, but it is
not unique.

As I hinted, there are no really nice solutions to missing data.  I
have done both row and column deletion.  Sometimes I have done
multiple analyses with different deletion strategies: once with enough
vars deleted so all or most cases are complete, and again with enough
cases deleted so that all or most var are complete.

I would start by counting (with a program) the number of missing
values for each row and then construction the frequency distribution
thereof.  Then the same for the columns, with the addition of a
correlation table or tables.

One thing one can do with vars is to combine some to make a composite
measure.  For instance, if three variables more-or-less measure the
same thing, one can combine (perhaps by the mean of those present) to
make one variable that is present if any of the three are, so it is
only missing for cases (rows) that are missing all three.  This type
of work requires that you look at the variables and consider their
meaning, rather than just inputing them into a blind proceedure that
consisders all vars to be the same.

Terry J. Reedy





From scasjos at mixmail.com  Wed Jul  9 08:42:07 2003
From: scasjos at mixmail.com (jose maria)
Date: 9 Jul 2003 05:42:07 -0700
Subject: Socket Win32 IO
References: <99071af2.0307070647.6ab3e329@posting.google.com> <3F099791.6AA68B8F@engcorp.com> <99071af2.0307080439.2bacd2d4@posting.google.com> <3F0AC6B8.A94C0435@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <99071af2.0307090442.76c43e00@posting.google.com>

Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message news:<3F0AC6B8.A94C0435 at engcorp.com>...
> jose maria wrote:
> > 
> > Hello Peter tanks for you attenion and time
> > 
> > Yes really I forget put in the message one parameter in the function
> > I put the traceback and all code I hope that this help you. Thousands
> > of pardons for my bad English
> > 
> > Traceback:
> > 
> > ActivePython 2.2.1 Build 222 (ActiveState Corp.) based on
> > Python 2.2.1 (#34, Apr 15 2002, 09:51:39) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on wi
> > Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more informatio
> > >>> from socket import *
> > >>> import win32api
> > >>> import win32file
> > >>> Ip=getprotobyname("ip")
> > >>> SIO_RCVALL=0x98000001
> > >>> ip=('xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx',0)
> > >>> Sock=socket(AF_INET,SOCK_RAW,Ip) #Raw Socket
> > >>> Sock.bind(ip) # Bind Socket to ip
> > >>> fh=Sock.fileno() # Get file handle
> > >>> test=win32file.DeviceIoControl(fh,SIO_RCVALL,"", 0,None) # The
> > function
> > Traceback (most recent call last):
> >   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
> > pywintypes.api_error: (1, 'DeviceIoControl', 'Incorrect function.')
> 
> I still get a different result (the second of the two that I posted
> before) even if I add that "None" argument, not what you show above.
> Are you certain you are cutting and pasting *exactly* what you typed?
> I note you have 'xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx' above, so presumably you have
> edited the transcript manually in at least one way...  any others?
> 
> I'm not likely to be able to solve the problem, since I have no idea
> what DeviceIoControl is for, nor what you're trying to accomplish. 
> I just thought I'd report that I do not get the results you are 
> getting when I try what you show you are trying.
> 
> -Peter


Hi Peter thanks again for your time 

I feel it if my message is not correct I will try to explain more in
detail my objective and try to explain my code in more detail

My objective is write a simple sniffer for Windows 2000/XP without
have to resort external code (DLL)
 

I evaluate several options 

1) Use pylibpcap: problem: Not with himself that work in my machine 
2) Write a external DLL in C++ and then expose to python: problem I
have little experience in C++
3) Imagination  (?why not?) : Reading several code from sniffers in
win32 I finded similarities in all parts of the code
the  similarities are that all use constant 0x98000001 in
SocketIOControl this especial mode permit to read all ip packets
that arrive in network adapter

I put you a simple example in C++ 

############# This is the file
PacketCapture.h##########################

#include <winsock2.h>
#include <stdio.h>

#define SIO_RCVALL  0x98000001
#define MAX_IP_SIZE 65535

class CPacketCapture  
{
public:
	int GetPacket(WSABUF *wsabuf);
	int Initialize(int AdapterNr);
	SOCKET sock;
	WSADATA wsd;
	CPacketCapture();
	virtual ~CPacketCapture();

};
###########################################################################

############# NetAdapter.h########################## 
#include <winsock2.h>

class CNetAdapter  
{
public:
	int GetAdapterList(SOCKET_ADDRESS_LIST* slist);
	int GetAdapter(SOCKET s, SOCKADDR_IN *ifx, int num);
	CNetAdapter();
	virtual ~CNetAdapter();

};
############################################################################
############### This is the file
PacketCapture.cpp##########################

#include "PacketCapture.h"
#include "NetAdapter.h"


CPacketCapture::CPacketCapture()
{

}

CPacketCapture::~CPacketCapture()
{

}

int CPacketCapture::Initialize(int AdapterNr)
{
	CNetAdapter   *netadapter=new CNetAdapter;
	SOCKADDR_IN   if0;
	unsigned int  optval;
    DWORD         dwBytesRet;

    sock=WSASocket(AF_INET,SOCK_RAW,IPPROTO_IP,NULL,0,WSA_FLAG_OVERLAPPED);
    if(sock==INVALID_SOCKET) {
		MessageBox(NULL,"Creation of Socket(SOCK_RAW/IPPROTO_IP)
failed","Alert!",MB_OK);
        return -1;
    }
	
	if(netadapter->GetAdapter(sock,&if0,AdapterNr)!=0) {
        MessageBox(NULL,"Unable to obtain selected network
adapter!","Alert!",MB_OK);
        return -1;
    }

    if0.sin_family = AF_INET;
    if0.sin_port = htons(0);
    if(bind(sock,(SOCKADDR *)&if0,sizeof(if0))==SOCKET_ERROR) {
        MessageBox(NULL,"Bind call failed!","Alert!",MB_OK);
        return -1;
    }

    optval=1;   
    if(WSAIoctl(sock,SIO_RCVALL,&optval,sizeof(optval),NULL,0,&dwBytesRet,NULL,NULL)==SOCKET_ERROR){
		MessageBox(NULL,"WSAIoCtl(SIO_RCVALL) failed","Alert!",MB_OK);
		return -1;
	}
    
	delete netadapter;

	return 0;
}

int CPacketCapture::GetPacket(WSABUF *wbuf)
{
    DWORD         dwBytesRet=0,dwFlags=0;

    if(SOCKET_ERROR==WSARecv(sock,wbuf,1,&dwBytesRet,&dwFlags,NULL,NULL)){
		char buf[200];
		sprintf(buf,"WSARecv failed. Code %d",WSAGetLastError(),sock);
		MessageBox(NULL,buf,"Alert!",MB_OK);
	}
	wbuf->len=dwBytesRet;
   
	return 0;
}
######################################################################################################################

I try to emulate this code in python (if its posible that that I don`t
know it) reading doc for socket module I not found
a method, property that permit to take control for IO in the socket
(perhaps there is it but I?don't know I?m newbie)

After to give him returned to the problem I founded in win32file
module a function that permit control for devices

this function is win32fileDeviceIoControl that have this arguments:

	string = DeviceIoControl(hFile, dwIoControlCode , data , readSize ,
ol )

	Call DeviceIoControl

	Parameters

	hFile : int

		Handle to the file

	dwIoControlCode : int

		IOControl Code to use.

	data : string

		The data to write.

	readSize : int

		Size of the buffer to create for the read.

	ol=None : PyOVERLAPPED

		An overlapped structure
   

My trick is (if it's posible)  play with this function for to take
control in the sockect.

My code 

## import the necessary modules 
from socket import * # for create socket
import win32file     # for manage IO of the socket( in my theory ) 

Ip=getprotobyname("ip") # for raw socket
SIO_RCVALL=0x98000001   # constant for IO to recived all ip packtes
ip=('XXX.XXX.XXX.XXX',0) # ip that  I want read for after bind to the
socket
                         #pardom for to omit this detail
                         # where XXXX.XXXX.XXX.XXX is the ip from one
network
                         # adapter I hope that this clarify
                         # your doubts :) no be a transcript error
there was
                         # my ip sorry 

Sock=socket(AF_INET,SOCK_RAW,Ip) # I create the raw socket no stream
socket or
                                 # other kind only raw 

Sock.bind(ip)                    # Bind socket to the IP 	 
fh=Sock.fileno()                 # Get the file handle	      	
test=win32file.DeviceIoControl(fh,SIO_RCVALL,"", 0,None) # The
function to
                                                         # manage IO

End Code 

More details sorry for my mistake I?m using Windows 2000 professional
SP4 and ActiveState Python 2.2.1

This is my traceback 

ActivePython 2.2.1 Build 222 (ActiveState Corp.) based on
Python 2.2.1 (#34, Apr 15 2002, 09:51:39) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on win
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information
>>> from socket import *
>>> import win32file
>>> Ip=getprotobyname("ip")
>>> SIO_RCVALL=0x98000001
>>> ip=('10.134.202.22',0)
>>> Sock=socket(AF_INET,SOCK_RAW,Ip)
>>> Sock.bind(ip)
>>> fh=Sock.fileno()
>>> fh
892
>>> test=win32file.DeviceIoControl(fh,SIO_RCVALL,"", 0,None)
Traceback (most recent call last):
File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
pywintypes.api_error: (1, 'DeviceIoControl', 'Incorrect function.') 
>>>

End of traceback
	
I try to emulate yours errors but only I obtained the first error that
you posted not the second and I don?t know how try to emulate
your second error and I don?t know why I obtained this error
pywintypes.api_error: (1, 'DeviceIoControl', 'Incorrect function.')

Thousands Thanks Peter for your time and patience (pardon for my bad
English)


sincerely Jose Maria



From gre7g-d-1059769811.c49085 at wolfhome.com  Sun Jul 27 16:24:13 2003
From: gre7g-d-1059769811.c49085 at wolfhome.com (Gre7g Luterman)
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 14:24:13 -0600
Subject: Why does Python do this?
In-Reply-To: <87fzksc1r7.fsf@pobox.com>
References: <mailman.1059147589.31630.python-list@python.org>
	<87fzksc1r7.fsf@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <v2d8iv4e8eqnhh9qqsp9k7l481101g9ht6@4ax.com>

On 27 Jul 2003 00:22:04 +0100, jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee) wrote:

> 2.2.1 only does this from the interactive prompt, not from a .py.

No, it does do it from .py files as well, although perhaps only under
special circumstances.  Otherwise I would never have noticed it.  I
found it because a .py CGI program was adding a space into my HTML
headers, which breaks them.  It was easy enough to work around, but I
had to ask if anyone knew more.

Gre7g.




From skip at pobox.com  Thu Jul 31 13:25:09 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 12:25:09 -0500
Subject: [Newbie] FAQ?
In-Reply-To: <bgb4a9$cl0$1@news.newsland.it>
References: <bgb4a9$cl0$1@news.newsland.it>
Message-ID: <16169.20725.527187.700126@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    Simone> is there a FAQ for this NG?

No, but there's a FAQ for Python:

    http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw.py?req=index

Skip




From tom_web at gmx.net  Sat Jul  5 13:45:50 2003
From: tom_web at gmx.net (Thomas Weber)
Date: Sat, 05 Jul 2003 19:45:50 +0200
Subject: execute scripts on GUI
Message-ID: <be72sg$ina$02$1@news.t-online.com>

Hi,

I want to start a script via an Icon on the Desktop,
and I wonder how I can execute my GUI-scirpts (Tk on KDE)
without the "Pyhton Shell" window popping up...



Thankx!
Tom




From glenfant at NOSPAM.bigfoot.com  Thu Jul 24 07:28:55 2003
From: glenfant at NOSPAM.bigfoot.com (Gilles Lenfant)
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 13:28:55 +0200
Subject: zope  ZMySQLDA
References: <rZmdnVc4WPWOQIOiRTvUrg@net1plus.com> <bfobe2$h17es$1@ID-63505.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <bfof4l$2nh6$1@biggoron.nerim.net>

"Thomas G?ttler" <guettler at thomas-guettler.de> a ?crit dans le message de
news: bfobe2$h17es$1 at ID-63505.news.uni-berlin.de...
> Don Rivard wrote:
>
> If you want to see the stacktrace in error messages put
> <dtml-var error_tb>
> in the standard_error_message of Zope. This needs to be done
> trough the web and is very handy for debugging.
>
> The stacktrace shows you the file and the line where
> the error occured. Maybe this helps you to find your problem.
>
>  thomas
>
>

With Zope 2.6.x (and later), the full traceback and the REQUEST object value
when the exception raised are in the error_log object.

--Gilles




From bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au  Fri Jul 18 06:26:35 2003
From: bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au (Ben Finney)
Date: 18 Jul 2003 20:16:35 +0950
Subject: gui
References: <pan.2003.07.18.00.19.12.167699@InospamIhotmail.com>
Message-ID: <slrnbhf2en.3i2.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>

On Fri, 18 Jul 2003 05:19:35 GMT, Linkages wrote:
> a good GUI for linux ?

XFree86 is a pretty good one.

    <http://xfree86.org/>

Did you have something more Python-specific in mind?

-- 
 \      "God forbid that any book should be banned. The practice is as |
  `\               indefensible as infanticide."  -- Dame Rebecca West |
_o__)                                                                  |
http://bignose.squidly.org/ 9CFE12B0 791A4267 887F520C B7AC2E51 BD41714B



From mis6 at pitt.edu  Sat Jul  5 08:41:31 2003
From: mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato)
Date: 5 Jul 2003 05:41:31 -0700
Subject: Overriding list.__new__
References: <2259b0e2.0307031246.6054693d@posting.google.com> <ULmcnd8rx5QlOJmiXTWJlg@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <2259b0e2.0307050441.51396ee6@posting.google.com>

"Terry Reedy" <tjreedy at udel.edu> wrote in message news:<ULmcnd8rx5QlOJmiXTWJlg at comcast.com>...
> "Michele Simionato" <mis6 at pitt.edu> wrote in message
> news:2259b0e2.0307031246.6054693d at posting.google.com...
> > Let me show first how does it work for tuples:
> >
> > >>> class MyTuple(tuple):
> > ...     def __new__(cls,strng): # implicit conversion string of ints
>  => tuple
> > ...         return
>  super(MyTuple,cls).__new__(cls,map(int,strng.split()))
> > >>> MyTuple('1 2')
> > (1, 2)
> >
> > No wonder here, everything is fine. However, if I do the same for
> > lists I get the following:
> 
> Values of immutable objects must be set when created, because they
> cannot be changed thereafter.  Mutable objects can be initialized in
> the __init__() method.  I suspect this is true of lists, so that
> overriding __new__ for lists has no effect.
> 
> TJR

This seems reasonable now that you point it out to me.
Let me check ...

>>> class MyList(list):
	def __init__(self,strng):
		self.extend(list(map(int,strng.split())))

		
>>> MyList('1 2')
[1, 2]

It works, indeed!


                       Michele



From MACALISTER at coltonhouse43.freeserve.co.uk  Sat Jul 26 07:57:14 2003
From: MACALISTER at coltonhouse43.freeserve.co.uk (Iain Macalister)
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 12:57:14 +0100
Subject: running python
References: <mailman.1059077438.2574.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bftqau$lfj$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk>

RE: running pythonwindows xp
"Batista, Facundo" <FBatista at uniFON.com.ar> wrote in message
news:mailman.1059077438.2574.python-list at python.org...
Platform?


#- -----Mensaje original-----
#- De: Iain Macalister [mailto:MACALISTER at coltonhouse43.freeserve.co.uk]
#- Enviado el: Jueves 24 de Julio de 2003 3:53 PM
#- Para: python-list at python.org
#- Asunto: running python
#-
#-
#- How do you run files written with python if you don't have
#- the compiler and
#- stuff on your computer?
#-
#-
#- --
#- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
#-





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From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Jul 21 16:47:32 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 16:47:32 -0400
Subject: os.spawn[*] help
References: <bfhgmm$fmi$1@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <3F1C5164.79BC6D08@engcorp.com>

Stephen Boulet wrote:
> 
> Can someone who understands the os module better than I offer some insight?
> 
> I want to open some text in xemacs (on Windows) using os.spawn[*], but I want
> the text to appear in the current xemacs window, as opposed to opening a new
> xemacs window.
> 
> Is this doable? Thanks.

I doubt this has anything to do with os.spawn, and everything to do with
xemacs itself.  Check the documentation on command line options for that
program, and just pass the right stuff to it through os.spawn.

-Peter



From ebolonev at rol.ru  Fri Jul  4 03:08:33 2003
From: ebolonev at rol.ru (Egor Bolonev)
Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 18:08:33 +1100
Subject: module and file locations
References: <xtVMa.720$JI4.10080@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
Message-ID: <be3akl$khf$1@news.rol.ru>

Hello, Stuart!
You wrote  on Thu, 03 Jul 2003 12:38:53 GMT:

 SG> I am writing a debugging a Tkinter program.

 SG> While debugging I want to run it by pressing F5.
 SG> When in use I want to run it by double-clicking (win2000)

 SG> The program reads and write to various files which I want to store in
 SG> the same directory (or a sub directory) of the main script.

 SG> My question is: How can my program where it lives so I can get the base
 SG> directory?
 SG> argv[0]  - will this work debugging if I just import the file?
 SG> There is some about finding where a module is.  This seems to return
 SG> readable text that would require parsing rather than just a file name

 SG> Thanks,

Try vars()

With best regards, Egor Bolonev.  E-mail: ebolonev at rol.ru [ru eo en]




From jeske at chat.net  Sun Jul 27 15:06:50 2003
From: jeske at chat.net (David Jeske)
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 12:06:50 -0700
Subject: Web tool kit : pro - cons ?
In-Reply-To: <3f23b02b$0$276$ba620e4c@reader1.news.skynet.be>
References: <3f23003f$0$266$ba620e4c@reader0.news.skynet.be> <3f23034d$0$49103$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl> <3f230835$0$280$ba620e4c@reader0.news.skynet.be> <mailman.1059268366.2051.python-list@python.org> <3f23b02b$0$276$ba620e4c@reader1.news.skynet.be>
Message-ID: <20030727120650.M22756@mozart>

On Sun, Jul 27, 2003 at 12:58:26PM +0200, vincent_delft wrote:
> >> - Build pages via templates (easy to split content and layout)
> > 
> > ZPT seems to be a good option there.
> > 
> Nice. New to me.  I've already played with Zope.... but ZPT seams to
> take the best from Templates without having the Zope constraints.

If you are not wedded to Zope for your applications, you may want to
look at Clearsilver. (http://www.clearsilver.net) It is a very mature
system which was developed at eGroups.com, and today is in use on
high-performance sites such as Yahoo! Groups and
wunderground.com. Clearsilver includes a full CGI kit which handles
form variables, cookies, etc. It also includes a PythonObject<->RDBMS
mapping system (MySQL only today, no pgsql yet), and a transparent
translation string extraction system. It is not a "server environment"
like Zope, and in fact you can use it inside of your server of choice
(Apache, Boa, IIS, Zope, etc).

I find ZPT's model for replacement hard to work with, because it tries
to fit into the xml document namespace. From the ZPT documentation
here:

  http://www.zope.org/Documentation/Books/ZopeBook/current/ZPT.stx

This example:

  <title tal:content="here/title">Page Title</title>

Illustrates how ZPT is making it's "tag" (i.e. tal:content) fit in as
an attribute defined by a new XML namespace. The problem is, this
constrains where you can use template commands to construct the
document. Clearsilver uses a model more like PHP where the tags exist
as items outside of the XML document parsing. This has the drawback
that your template document is not a valid XML document, but it has
the advantage that you can put the tags anywhere. 

For example, in clearsilver, you can construct URLS using sequences of
template commands, even looping. Here is a small example (whitespace
added for readability):

<a href="/url?
 <?cs each:p=CGI.Params ?>
   <?cs var:p.name ?>=<?cs var:p.value ?>&
 <?cs /each ?>"
>a_link</a>


> No.  Each part of the web page will be "boxes".  I would like to be very
> flexible and display "dynamically" some selected boxes.
> For example the same page (url) will not display the same boxes if you are
> administrator, maintener or simple viewer.

This should be pretty easy in most template systems worth their
weight. 

> An another example will be to have possibility to re-use existing boxes.  If
> I have a boxes displaying the last 5 news from Slashdot, I don't want to
> re-write it each time I need a new bacground color (for example). My Idea
> is to use those "boxes" like we use classes : if you need some modification
> you subclass it on the rest remains the same.

Clearsilver has a macro definition facility for doing just this. You
can supply arguments to macros, and even call macros recursively. Here
is a simple example:

  <?cs def:makelink(url,title,text) ?>
   <a href="<?cs var:url ?>"
      title="<?cs var:title ?>"
   ><?cs var:text ?></a>
  <?cs /def ?>

  <?cs call:makelink("http://www.python.org","Python.org website","Python.org") ?>

The paramaters can be any expressions, including constructed strings,
or data from your dynamic CGI. For example:

  <?cs call:makelink("http://" + CGI.host + "/" + CGI.script,"title","link text") ?>

As always, there are lots of systems out there, and YMMV.

-- 
David Jeske (N9LCA) + http://www.chat.net/~jeske/ + jeske at chat.net




From max at alcyone.com  Tue Jul 22 22:06:35 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 19:06:35 -0700
Subject: 'int' object is not callable
References: <3607e8e4.0307221646.7d24707@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3F1DEDAB.AA08A28D@alcyone.com>

JW wrote:

> If i remove line 1, then my foo() method does print out correct value
> for aTuple[0].
> 
> Why am I getting this error when i try using python len() built-in
> function?

Probably because somewhere along the line someone's replacement the
`len' builtin with a variable containing an int object.

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ Many things are lost for want of asking.
\__/  (an English proverb)



From abelikov72 at hotmail.com  Tue Jul  8 12:04:21 2003
From: abelikov72 at hotmail.com (Afanasiy)
Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 16:04:21 GMT
Subject: Python vs PHP
References: <mailman.1057574470.1750.python-list@python.org> <kmolgv4mp12o71ocion7ra0m2s9fcrqjdk@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <vhqlgv8905naupmtv5jrruev1q3t4m26q8@4ax.com>

On Tue, 08 Jul 2003 15:56:58 GMT, Afanasiy <abelikov72 at hotmail.com> wrote:

>On Mon, 07 Jul 2003 13:47:00 +0300, Catalin <ady982 at ploiesti.astral.ro>
>wrote:

>A couple other slight issues :
>
>* catch-all error handling not as flexible or non-existent
>* no equivalent to php_value auto_prepend_file "_header.php"
>* no equivalent to php_value auto_append_file "_footer.php"
>* not as intelligent form value handling
>* white space sensitivity is a unique problem when embedding

I think I should add import, pythonpath and module caching to this list.
These are much more annoying than PHP's inclusion mechanisms. I am even
annoyed in non-web applications by them quite often, but not necessarily
all at the same time.

Also add to the list, the need for PyChecker. You must run PyChecker
to discover errors which would occur on a section of logic being hit
which contained a silly typographical error. PHP would discover these
without them being hit, when you were developing the page.

Python is more beautiful and more powerful, but for this purpose I
consider the current implementations still lacking compared to PHP.
So much so that I am unable to bring myself to write new PHP, but
unable to continue using Python until I find the perfect implementation.

-AB



From max at alcyone.com  Tue Jul 22 22:18:42 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 19:18:42 -0700
Subject: How does Mr. Martelli's Borg recipe work ?
References: <764b8294.0307221520.18017b09@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3F1DF082.C182FA39@alcyone.com>

Mars wrote:

> It is a very useful substitute for a Singleton, but I can't figure out
> how it works. _shared_state is never assigned any value, only
> self.__dict__ is assigend self._shared_sate's value - or rather
> (self.)_shared_state must be assigned a value at some point, otherwise
> the code wouldn't work(right ?).

It is assigned a value; it's bound to a new, empty dictionary.  Since
it's a class attribute, that means that empty dictionary is shared by
all instances.

_All_ instances have precisely the same __dict__ object.  They all are
exactly the same.  That's how the pattern works.

>>> class Borg:
...  __sharedState = {}
...  def __init__(self):
...   self.__dict__ = self.__sharedState
... 
>>> x = Borg()
>>> y = Borg()
>>> x is y
0
>>> x.__dict__ is y.__dict__
1
>>> x.a = 123
>>> y.a
123
>>> y.b = 321
>>> x.b
321

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ People say that life is the thing, but I prefer reading.
\__/  Logan Pearsall Smith



From ageron at HOHOHOHOvideotron.ca  Thu Jul  3 11:24:44 2003
From: ageron at HOHOHOHOvideotron.ca (Aurélien Géron)
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 17:24:44 +0200
Subject: Python Code Snippets
Message-ID: <be1hs0$111s$1@biggoron.nerim.net>

Hi,

Does anyone know where I can find a lot of Python code snippets?

I searched the Python wiki and Internet but could not find more than five or
ten code snippets at a time.

I'm looking for a kind of organized list (GUI snippets, database access
snippets, I/O snippets, etc.).  I find that there's no better way to learn a
language than to be able to cut&paste actual working bits of code.

Thanks,
Aur?lien





From max at alcyone.com  Fri Jul 25 15:10:20 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 12:10:20 -0700
Subject: file.close()
References: <edITa.131868$Ph3.17333@sccrnsc04> <mailman.1059052897.16526.python-list@python.org> <7xhe5b82ip.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <bfrecu$tl8$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <3F21809C.21720CD@alcyone.com>

Bengt Richter wrote:

> 1) Is f.done() really necessary? I.e., doesn't an explicit del f take
>    care of it
>    if the object has been coded with a __del__ method? I.e., the idea
>    was to get
>    the effect of CPython's immediate effective del on ref count going
>    to zero, right?

It wouldn't if there were circular references at that point.  If you're
going to have some kind of `with' structure that constraints lifetimes,
I'd think you'd probably want something more concrete than just object
deletion; you'd want to make sure a "Stop whatever you were doing now"
method were present and called.  But maybe that really depends on the
primary thing that the `with' construct would be used for.

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ Love is when you wake up in the morning and have a big smile.
\__/  Anggun



From bdesth.nospam at removeme.free.fr  Wed Jul  2 07:37:36 2003
From: bdesth.nospam at removeme.free.fr (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 11:37:36 +0000
Subject: functors
References: <3jc4gvgn5rb4c4008eedg958ee594lu8p2@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3F02C400.5040209@removeme.free.fr>

Tom Plunket wrote:
> How can I create a functor object in Python?
> 
> What I want (being a C++ coder <g>), is to be able to create an
> object that I is callable. 

__call__ is your friend.

> The following is my attempt, but it
> doesn't work:
> 
> class Countdown:
>     def __init__(self):
>         self.callback = None
> 
>     def SetCallback(self, time, callback):
>         self.callback = callback
>         self.timeRemaining = time
>         
>     def Update(self):
>         if self.callback is not None:
>             self.timeRemaining -= 1
>             if self.timeRemaining <= 0:
>                 print "Callback fired."
>                 self.callback()
>                 self.callback = None
>                 
> class SomeClass:
>     def __init__(self):
>         self.countdown = Countdown()
>         self.countdown.SetCallback(30, lambda s=self: s.Callback)

This is not the same problem as making an object (ie a class instance) 
callable. Here you just want to use an instance object as callback function.

Functions in Python are first-class objects, so you don't need this 
lambda stuff. This should work (I tried a simplified version...):

          self.countdown.SetCallback(30, self.Callback)


HTH
Bruno




From noah at noah.org  Thu Jul 10 16:44:15 2003
From: noah at noah.org (Noah)
Date: 10 Jul 2003 13:44:15 -0700
Subject: Convert between Windows style paths and POSIX style paths
Message-ID: <c9d82136.0307101244.4594e04d@posting.google.com>

Does anyone have a function to convert back and forth between
NT style paths and POSIX style? It seems trivial, but 
I want to make sure I don't overlook some obscure detail. 
Is it a simple matter of translating / and \ characters?

FYI, I need a Python function that does what cygpath does so that
I can run a script on either NT or UNIX or Cygwin.
I want my config files use one style of path.

Yours,
Noah



From martin at v.loewis.de  Sun Jul 13 18:17:19 2003
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-15?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 14 Jul 2003 00:17:19 +0200
Subject: anything like C++ references?
References: <b8c3hvsesjoumiboobml3nsnajtha99mp1@4ax.com> <mailman.1058129901.28248.python-list@python.org> <plk3hv0s1m2egf4s34jo6vjedk0q8r2mu9@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <m365m6ul5c.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Stephen Horne <intentionally at blank.co.uk> writes:

> 1.  Why are dictionarys called dictionaries (rather than references to
> dictionarys or whatever)? Similar for lists and class instances.

Because they are the values themselves, instead of being references to
values. These values (like all other values) are objects, though,
which means they have identity, state, and behaviour.

You might be thinking of values which only have state and
behaviour. Such values are not supported in Python - objects always
have an identity.

> 2.  Why are the values of mutable objects always forced to be accessed
> via a pointer (or reference or whatever)?

Because all variables are references to objects. In Python, you cannot
have a variable that *is* a value - variables are always *bound* to
values, and accessing the variable yields the associated value. The
values exist independently from the variables they are bound to, and a
single value may be bound to different variables.

> 3.  Why is there no way to reference an immutable object via a
> pointer, other than stuffing it into a mutable object designed for
> some purpose other than simple pointer behaviour?

But there is: If I do

a = 1
b = a

then b *refers* the same value that a refers to. That is, the values
associated with a and b have the same identity.

> This excuse is, as I already said, invalid.

Which excuse? You have only listed questions in this message, not
excuses.

Regards,
Martin



From jkpangtang at yahoo.com  Mon Jul 14 10:59:34 2003
From: jkpangtang at yahoo.com (J W)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 07:59:34 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Passing pointer to array from C to Python..and modifying same array in python?
In-Reply-To: <20030712154559.A6639@mozart>
Message-ID: <20030714145934.13900.qmail@web14303.mail.yahoo.com>

Hi David (and all membors of this list):

Thank you so much for your advice.

I have a few follow-up questions.

1) when you say to  "have the C function construct a
new python object (i.e. the "wrapper")",
what type of python object would it be:  
PyLong, PyObject,  PyCobject (not exactly sure what
this is, but i've seen this in literature), or
something else?

2) When you say "
>    The get method should take self and the array
> index as paramaters and return the values in that
slot of the array",

Do I use the "PyArg_ParseTuple" funciton call in the
"get()" method? If so, what parameters am I using to
indicate object type?
Is it correct to assume that the keyword "_self_" is
actually seen in Python, and not the C extension
object?
In the C- extension function, what type of object is 
"_self_" -- PyLong, PyObject?  


Thanks again


--- David Jeske <jeske at chat.net> wrote:
> On Fri, Jul 11, 2003 at 02:06:10PM -0700, JW wrote:
> > I have an array (presumably 'large') that is
> mallocced in a C
> > function and its values are initialized in that
> same function.  I
> > would like to pass just the pointer to the
> beginning of the array
> > from this C function to a Pyton function.  Then
> the python method
> > can individually access and MODIFY individual
> members of the array.
> > After the call to the python method, the C
> function will see any
> > changes to the array.
> 
> > Can this be done?
> 
> Of course this can be done, and there are a number
> of ways to do
> it. Based on your implication that there are many
> more values put in
> the array by the C code than will be accessed (or
> changed) by the
> Python code, this method might make sense:
> 
> 1) have the C function construct a new python object
> (i.e. the "wrapper")
> 
> 2) put the real pointer to the C array into the
> wrapper as instance data
> 
> 3) register two methods for the object "get()" and
> "set()", impelemented
>    in C as Python exported functions.
> 
>    The get method should take self and the array
> index as paramaters and
>    return the values in that slot of the array
> 
>    The set method should take self, an index, and
> the values as paramaters
>    and it should modify the real "C-version" of the
> array.
> 
> 4) when you execute your python function, it will be
> given this
>    "wrapper" object as a paramater. It can then call
> into the methods in 
>    the wrapper object to access and change the
> C-array "in-place" without
>    converting it at all. Each new value which is set
> into the array
>    is converted on the fly.
> 
> 5) If you like, you can convert get() and set() to
> __get__() and __set__
>    so you can use array access syntax to access the
> array from python.
> 
> 
> -- 
> David Jeske (N9LCA) + http://www.chat.net/~jeske/ +
jeske at chat.net


__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
http://sbc.yahoo.com




From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Jul  7 16:42:40 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 16:42:40 -0400
Subject: A story about Python... sort of
References: <mailman.1057554011.6652.python-list@python.org> <mailman.1057601112.30635.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3F09DB40.4096E3B4@engcorp.com>

Bob Gailer wrote:
> 
> Physically impossible? or impractical. If it can be solved by Turing
> machine computation then it is physically possible, even though it might
> take more time/resources than anyone cares to expend. But remember "When
> Harley Was One" and he invented the G.O.D.?

Doesn't the Turing machine involve access to an infinitely long tape?

If that's so, wouldn't that kind of make Turing machine computation
discussions merely theoretically possible, but not necessarily
practically possible?

-Peter



From ianb at colorstudy.com  Tue Jul  8 05:15:34 2003
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: 08 Jul 2003 04:15:34 -0500
Subject: path module
In-Reply-To: <just-7F73EB.10171608072003@news1.news.xs4all.nl>
References: <mailman.1057651032.22842.python-list@python.org>
	 <just-7F73EB.10171608072003@news1.news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <1057655734.3738.7.camel@lothlorien>

On Tue, 2003-07-08 at 03:17, Just wrote:
> I would greatly appreaciate such a module in the std library, but while 
> Jason's module has some very cool features, to my taste it goes a bit 
> too far with overloading operators. I really don't like overloading a/b 
> to mean os.path.join(a, b) and I don't think the default iterator should 
> do a listdir (although list(mypath) is indeed cute). If it were toned 
> down a bit in this area I think we may be able to make a good case for 
> including it in the std library.

I've never wanted to iterate over a string, and find that an annoying
feature in Python (I'd *much* rather get an exception), so covering up
the previous string behavior doesn't seem a big deal to me.  But I can
see why iterating over a path may be a little too magic.  But paths are
also containers (at least if they point to a directory), so iterating
over them seems only natural.  I could see something like mypath.dir()
being reasonable alternative (mypath.list() also, but that looks funny
to me because "list" is special to my eye).

I do like the /, though.  mypath.joinpath(filename) is rather
long-winded (since he wisely avoids reusing the join method).  / has no
meaning for strings, so it's not really overloading the operator, merely
adding it in a specific context.  Several operators are reused for
different meanings, % in particular comes to mind, this doesn't seem
that bad.  I like the way it looks and feels.  It feels better to me
than using + for string concatenation ;) -- maybe because division is
not all that common an operation anyway.

  Ian






From faizan at jaredweb.com  Mon Jul 28 13:58:38 2003
From: faizan at jaredweb.com (Fazer)
Date: 28 Jul 2003 10:58:38 -0700
Subject: GET/POST Data Array in Python?
References: <7b454334.0307271134.771de1ce@posting.google.com> <mailman.1059336280.17075.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7b454334.0307280958.535da0cd@posting.google.com>

Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.1059336280.17075.python-list at python.org>...
> faizan> I am making a simple Pythong CGI script that collects data from
>     faizan> a form.  When the Python CGI Script is called, I wish to gather
>     faizan> all the POST variables and display all their values.  So, I was
>     faizan> wondering if all the POST data is collected in an array like in
>     faizan> PHP where I just go through all keys and display their values?
> 
> Sure.  For an example, visit:
> 
>     http://www.musi-cal.com/~skip/python/
> 
> and search for "CGI Environment Printer".
> 
> Skip


Thanks a lot!  It really helped me out!



From walter at livinglogic.de  Wed Jul  9 18:01:32 2003
From: walter at livinglogic.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Walter_D=F6rwald?=)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 00:01:32 +0200
Subject: Deleting specific characters from a string
In-Reply-To: <3F0C8AC3.5010304@dadsetan.com>
References: <begfb3$7j6$1@online.de> <3F0C851C.4000500@livinglogic.de> <3F0C8AC3.5010304@dadsetan.com>
Message-ID: <3F0C90BC.4030006@livinglogic.de>

Behrang Dadsetan wrote:

> Walter D?rwald wrote:
> 
>> Behrang Dadsetan wrote:
>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> I would like deleting specific characters from a string.
>>> As an example, I would like to delete all of the '@' '&' in the 
>>> string 'You are ben at orange?enter&your&code' so that it becomes 
>>> 'benorange?enteryourcode'.
>>>
>>> So far I have been doing it like:
>>> str = 'You are ben at orange?enter&your&code'
>>> str = ''.join([ c for c in str if c not in ('@', '&')])
>>>
>>> but that looks so ugly.. I am hoping to see nicer examples to acheive 
>>> the above..
>>
>>
>>
>> What about the following:
>>
>> str = 'You are ben at orange?enter&your&code'
>> str = filter(lambda c: c not in "@&", str)
>>
>> Bye,
>>    Walter D?rwald 
> 
> 
> def isAcceptableChar(character):
>    return charachter in "@&"
> 
> str = filter(isAcceptableChar, str)
> 
> is going to finally be what I am going to use.
> I not feel lambdas are so readable, unless one has serious experience in 
> using them and python in general. I feel it is acceptable to add a named 
> method that documents with its name what it is doing there.

You're not the only one with this feeling. Compare "the eff-bot's
favourite lambda refactoring rule":

http://groups.google.de/groups?selm=3wFx6.2498%24sk3.826353%40newsb.telia.net

> [...]

Bye,
    Walter D?rwald




From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Mon Jul  7 09:37:06 2003
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 7 Jul 2003 09:37:06 -0400
Subject: anything new on the ternary operator?
References: <mailman.1057533670.9800.python-list@python.org> <beae42$d01$1@panix2.panix.com> <u8yrak6zg.fsf@scientia.com>
Message-ID: <bebt22$fif$1@panix3.panix.com>

In article <u8yrak6zg.fsf at scientia.com>,
Paul Rudin  <paul_rudin at scientia.com> wrote:
>
>I don't know the details of this process; but personally I think a
>ternary operator would be a very good thing - and don't care about the
>syntax too much. Maybe the right think to vote on was simply a yes/no
>to "Do you want a ternary operator?". 

Nope.  Many people who were in favor of a ternary operator were entirely
opposed to specific variants; that's even more true of people who were
neutral on the subject.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"Not everything in life has a clue in front of it...."  --JMS



From max at alcyone.com  Tue Jul  8 03:50:07 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 00:50:07 -0700
Subject: Europython recordings?
References: <bedsrm$2llu$1@news.cybercity.dk>
Message-ID: <3F0A77AF.7D375D93@alcyone.com>

Claus D wrote:

> Did anyone record the europython sessions? Apparently, Hunter hasn't
> recieved a single reply from his effords to coordinate this...

I wonder as well, I'd be interested to know if there are any recordings
of Dinu Gherman's presentations, for obvious reasons :-).

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ I want to know God's thought; the rest are details.
\__/  Albert Einstein



From scott.daniels at acm.org  Sun Jul  6 02:10:58 2003
From: scott.daniels at acm.org (Scott David Daniels)
Date: 5 Jul 2003 23:10:58 -0700
Subject: getting a submatrix of all true
References: <mailman.1057173484.29754.python-list@python.org>
    <be4v0s$nmv$1@news.hccnet.nl>
Message-ID: <3f07bd72$1@nntp0.pdx.net>

Folllowing Bengt and anton at vredegoor.doge.nl (Anton Vredegoor)'s leads,
the following code can be fast (at times).  It is quite sensitive to the
probability of non-zeroness, (.01 works well, the .o5 is nowhere near so
nice).

I get 2.25 min to do 25 x 25 at .05
      2.75 min to do 30 x 30 at .05
It gets slow _very_ fast, but gets good numbers if the probability is low
       .25 min to do 45 x 45 at .01
       1.5 min to do 50 x 50 at .01


-Scott David Daniels
Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org (not fully back up yet, though).


Here's the code:
################################ 
# myopt.py
__version__ = '0.3'

try:
    assert list(enumerate('ab')) == [(0, 'a'), (1, 'b')]
except NameError:
    def enumerate(iterable):
        # Not exact, but close enough
        lst = list(iterable)
        return zip(range(len(lst)), lst)


def bitcount(row):
    '''Return the number of on bits in the integer argsA'''
    assert row >= 0
    result = 0
    while row:
       result += 1
       lsbit = row & -row
       row ^= lsbit
    return result


def rowencode(vector):
    '''convert from a buncha numbers to a bit-representation'''
    bit = 1L
    result = 0
    for element in vector:
        if element:
            result |= bit
        bit <<= 1
    return result


def rowdecode(value, mask=-1):
    '''convert from a bit-rep to a buncha numbers (at least as long as mask)'''
    if mask < 0: mask = value
    assert value >= 0
    result = []
    while mask or value:
        result.append(value & 1)
        mask >>= 1
        value >>= 1
    return result


class Answer(object):
    '''An answer represents a result calculation.'''
    __slots__ = 'rows', 'colmask', '_score'
    totalrequests = 0
    totalcalcs = 0

    def __init__(self, colmask, rows):
        '''The columns in colmask are the ones we keep.'''
        self.colmask = colmask
        self.rows = rows
        self._score = None

    def score(self):
        '''Calculate the score lazily'''
        self.__class__.totalrequests += 1
        if self._score is None:
            self.__class__.totalcalcs += 1
            self._score = bitcount(self.colmask) * len(self.rows)
        return self._score

    def __repr__(self):
        return '%s(%d:%s, %x):%s' % (self.__class__.__name__,
                                      len(self.rows), self.rows,
                                      self.colmask, self._score)


totalcalls = 0

def choose(rows, keepcols, N=0, keeprows=None):
    '''Choose rows and columns to keep.  Return an Answer for the choice'''
    global totalcalls
    totalcalls += 1
    if keeprows is None:
        keeprows = []
    try:
        while 0 == rows[N] & keepcols:
            keeprows.append(N)
            N += 1
    except IndexError:
        return Answer(keepcols, keeprows)

    # a difference: some kept columns in this row are non-0
    # must drop either those columns or this row

    # Calculate result if we keep this row (drop problem columns)
    withrow = choose(rows, keepcols & ~rows[N], N+1, keeprows + [N])

    # Calculate result if we drop this row
    skiprow = choose(rows, keepcols, N+1, keeprows)

    # Choose the better answer (keep the row if everything is equal).
    if (withrow.colmask == skiprow.colmask
     or withrow.score() >= skiprow.score()):
        return withrow
    else:
        return skiprow


# The data used from the example
X = [ [1, 0, 0, 0, 1],
      [0, 0, 0, 0, 0],
      [0, 0, 0, 1, 0],
      [0, 0, 0, 0, 0],
      [0, 0, 1, 0, 0],
      [0, 0, 1, 0, 0] ]


def printrep(row, symbols, mask=0):
    '''A row representing a single row (column-masked by mask)'''
    assert mask >= 0
    result = []
    for element in row:
        result.append(symbols[(1 & mask) * 2 + (element != 0)])
        mask >>= 1
    assert mask == 0  # mask doesn't extend beyond data.
    return ''.join(result)


def printanswer(data, rows, keepcols):
    '''Print the represented row'''
    toohuge = len(data)
    rowqueue = rows + [toohuge]
    rowqueue.reverse()
    nextrow = rowqueue.pop()
    for rownumber, row in enumerate(data):
        if nextrow > rownumber:
            # This row was zapped
            print '#', printrep(row, '01OI', keepcols)
        else:
            assert rownumber == nextrow # This row was kept
            nextrow = rowqueue.pop()
            print '_', printrep(row, '01~@', keepcols)
    assert nextrow == toohuge and not rowqueue


def getanswer(data):
    '''Calculate the best-cut for a particular matrix'''
    columns = max([len(row) for row in data])
    rowdata = [rowencode(row) for row in data]
    return choose(rowdata, (1L << columns) - 1)


def main(data=X):
    global totalcalls

    totalcalls = 0
    answer = getanswer(data)
    print 'Requested: %s, Calculated: %s,' % (
          Answer.totalrequests, Answer.totalcalcs),

    print 'answer: %r,' % answer,
    print 'Score: %s' % answer.score()
    print 'Total choose calls required: %s' % totalcalls

    printanswer(data, answer.rows, answer.colmask)



def rangen(rows, columns, probability=0.05):
    '''create a rows by columns data table with 1s at the given probability'''
    import random
    result = []
    for row in range(rows):
        result.append([int(random.random() < probability)
                       for column in range(columns)])
    return result


if __name__ == '__main__':
    import sys
    assert getanswer([[0]]).score() == 1
    assert getanswer([[0,1], [1,0]]).score() == 1
    assert getanswer([[0,1,0], [1,0,0]]).score() == 2
    if len(sys.argv) < 2:
        main(X)
    else:
        args = sys.argv[1:]
        if '.' in args[-1]:
            assert len(args) > 1
            probability = float(args.pop())
        else:
            probability = .2

        rows = int(args[0])
        if len(args) == 1:
            cols = rows
        else:
            assert len(args) == 2
            cols = int(args[1])
        main(rangen(rows, cols, probability))





From usenet_spam at janc.invalid  Tue Jul 15 23:07:12 2003
From: usenet_spam at janc.invalid (JanC)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 03:07:12 GMT
Subject: A few beginning questions
References: <3f129a8a$1@mail.hmgcc.gov.uk>
Message-ID: <Xns93BA3412B195DJanC@213.118.75.80>

"richardc" <richardc at hmgcc.gov.uk> schreef:

> Has nobody written an editor/IDE in Python with wxWindows so that it
> runs on all platforms ?

There is an editor included with wxPython: PyCrust...

-- 
JanC

"Be strict when sending and tolerant when receiving."
RFC 1958 - Architectural Principles of the Internet - section 3.9



From alia_khouri at yahoo.com  Fri Jul 11 02:40:23 2003
From: alia_khouri at yahoo.com (Alia Khouri)
Date: 10 Jul 2003 23:40:23 -0700
Subject: Embedding Python, threading and scalability
References: <mailman.1057884556.438.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <40a939c9.0307102240.70c149d9@posting.google.com>

[Simon Wittber]
> To write scalable applications in Python, one must write the
> 'scalabilty-required' parts n C.

I wonder if python could benefit from working closely with a language
like cilk, "a language for multithreaded parallel programming based on
ANSI C."

Has anybody has any experience with this?

Alia



From sfb at alysseum.com  Thu Jul 10 08:55:54 2003
From: sfb at alysseum.com (Simon Bayling)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 12:55:54 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Odp: Newbie - No module named stdwin
References: <beh8d4$gnu$1@topaz.icpnet.pl> <3f0c5faf.172627925@news.blueyonder.co.uk> <bejf32$3on$1@topaz.icpnet.pl>
Message-ID: <Xns93B48E32ED289k23vzqpmre@194.106.32.13>

"K" <milyon at wp.pl> wrote in news:bejf32$3on$1 at topaz.icpnet.pl:

> but in visual basic 6 i have graphical Interface - in Python only text
> based is that correct ?

Yes and no... Python only has a text interface, but can access "windowing 
toolkits" to allow you to make graphical interfaces.

A lot of languages are like this, e.g. C++, but some have a built-in 
windowing toolkit, e.g. Java.  

Visual Basic also has its own built-in toolkit - so much so that it is 
all you can use, and it is easy to use - which is why it is so popular.

So... yes strictly speaking Python only has a text interface, but that's 
not the whole story because you can create graphical interfaces with a 
toolkit that usually comes with Python, and it's a very common and 
standard thing to do.

However, it requires a different style of programming, which is why the 
previous posters are suggesting you avoid it until you are comfortable 
with Python.

http://www.pythonware.com/library/tkinter/introduction/hello-
tkinter.htm#AEN50 

Is a link to the most simple "Hello World" application with the toolkit 
"Tkinter".

Cheers,
Simon.






From irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl  Tue Jul  1 16:47:25 2003
From: irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 22:47:25 +0200
Subject: placing text at point on console
In-Reply-To: <1057090010.408280@cache2>
References: <1057090010.408280@cache2>
Message-ID: <3f01f359$0$49115$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

bart wrote:

> I'm trying to place text at a certain point on the console. But I can't 
> figure out any way to do this. For instance place a '@' at point 6,8. 
> Any hints?
> 
> (I'm trying to display a 'map'. Think nethack)

You didn't say which system you use. This is important information
because what you want to do is not system independent.

For Unixes/Linux, try the curses module:
http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/module-curses.html

  import curses
  s=curses.initscr()
  s.addch(6,9,'#')
  s.refresh()


For Windows, try the (non-standard) WConIO module:
http://newcenturycomputers.net/projects/wconio.html

  import WConio
  WConio.gotoxy(6,8)
  WConio.cputs('@')



--Irmen




From runyaga at runyaga.com  Fri Jul 18 12:11:01 2003
From: runyaga at runyaga.com (alan runyan)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 11:11:01 -0500
Subject: Archetypes beta2 Announcement
Message-ID: <oprsikkn0gvtwssu@news.gmane.org>

Announcement: Archetypes 1.0beta2

The Plone/CMF Collective communities have released Archetypes 1.0beta2
tarball.  By leadership of Sidnei da Silva (and financial support from
AGM Web consulting) the Archetypes project is rapidly moving to a 1.0
stable release.  The Archetypes project was created by Benjamin Saller
for use with the Plone/CMF to ease content-type creation by
programmers.  It now evolves and has a unique place in the Plone/CMF
universe.  It defines a schema like language and will dynamically
generate class definitions on Zope startup.  The schema language is in
python and allows you specify the attribute name, accessor, mutator,
constraints, transformation policy, marshalling policy, i18n policy as
well as storage policy!  All features are in production use but have
not been extensively tested by the community.  The biggest obstacle is
(lack of) documentation which we are looking for financial/community
support to resolve this critical issue.

Please download the latest tarball, install it into your Plone site,
and read the README.  You will be able to create content objects with
minimal amounts of code (see ArchetypesExample in the tarball).  And
for people who use UML look at the ArchGenXML that will take XMI input
files and generate the Archetypes schema; you can actually model your
content objects in UML and with a click of a button have them appear
in your Plone site!

Please give feedback to the archetypes-developers mailing list
(archetypes-devel at lists.sourceforge.net) and reports bugs to:

http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=75272&atid=543430

Tarball:
http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/archetypes/archetypes-1.0b2.tgz?download

ChangeLog Notes:
https://sourceforge.net/project/shownotes.php?group_id=75272&release_id=170750


The Archetypes Team





From tomas at fancy.org  Wed Jul  2 23:34:36 2003
From: tomas at fancy.org (Tom Plunket)
Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 20:34:36 -0700
Subject: functors
References: <3jc4gvgn5rb4c4008eedg958ee594lu8p2@4ax.com> <3F0241D4.34010A5C@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <4297gv859qso3qv48p37jfi11oqkcl4omc@4ax.com>

Erik Max Francis wrote:

> The __call__ method is the equivalent of C++'s operator ().

Thanks guys.

-tom!



From cmkleffner at gmx.de  Wed Jul  2 04:48:46 2003
From: cmkleffner at gmx.de (cmkl)
Date: 2 Jul 2003 01:48:46 -0700
Subject: Yet another threading question...
References: <mailman.1056639557.22837.python-list@python.org> <HXQKa.301729$ro6.7464204@news2.calgary.shaw.ca>
Message-ID: <3b091a1c.0307020048.136dd5d0@posting.google.com>

don't forget to add the -mthreads switch to gcc when compiling AS WELL 
linking your wrapper code with mingw's gcc. In case you use g++ instead 
of gcc for some reason your wrapper maybe depend on the mingw10.dll. 
Dependency walker will tell you....

Another compiler option which may help is  -mms-bitfields
The use of MS compatible bitfield layout is not enabled by default
for some reason. The older mingw gcc has:  -fnative-struct instead

And another complication is the use of win32 unicode (wide character)
functions: In this case you want to add -DUNICODE and -D_UNIOCDE
to your compiler options.

A completly different story is the use of the ctypes module instead.

Hope this helps

Carl

"Kevin" <other at cazabon.com> wrote in message news:<HXQKa.301729$ro6.7464204 at news2.calgary.shaw.ca>...
> I've been pondering the exact same issue, but haven't gotten that far in
> wrapping the 3rd-party C library I'm working with.
> 
> I was thinking of stubbing the callback to a Python function that sets an
> event flag, and have a Python thread monitoring that event to handle it.
> I'm not sure if that will cure your access violation, but it may.  You
> should also make sure that your wrapper gets the GIL (Python Global
> Intepreter Lock) before making the Python function call to set the event.
> 
> Let me know if you try that, or if you get it to work some other way... I'll
> be beating my head into the same problem pretty soon and could use the heads
> up!
> 
> Thanks,
> Kevin Cazabon
> 
> 
> "Jim West" <Jim.West at checklogix.com> wrote in message
> news:mailman.1056639557.22837.python-list at python.org...
> > Good day all,
> >
> >   Ok, I'm starting to get the hang of this Python thing...really pretty
> > cool actually.  Again, thanx to those that have helped me thus far.
> >
> >   I now have another stumbling block to which I would like help.
> >
> >   Ok, here is my enviroment:
> >
> >         Windows 2K
> >         Python 2.2
> >         MinGW and MSys
> >
> >   I'm writing a Python extension to a 3rd party DLL that controls an
> > external hardware toy.
> >
> >   One of the DLL methods is a callback registration interface.  The 3rd
> > party DLL is threaded as the callback is asynchronous.
> >
> >   I'm able to call my extension function via Python to "register" my
> > Python function as the callback function via a C function proxy in the
> > extension.
> >
> >   All is well until the DLL invokes the callback.  When the callback
> > attempts to invoke my "registered" Python function the Python
> > interpreter bails with an access violation.
> >
> >   I'm thinking it may have something to do with threading and thus am
> > asking for your insight to this.
> >
> >   I'm thinking I may have to put my proxy C callback function in it's
> > own thread.  If so, then would some kind soul point me in the right
> > direction as to how to do this with just the MinGW environment since we
> > do not have nor use MSVC++.
> >
> >   Thank you.
> >
> > - Jim
> >
> >
> >



From cpitaar at yahoo.com.ar  Sat Jul 19 12:28:13 2003
From: cpitaar at yahoo.com.ar (Carlos P.)
Date: 19 Jul 2003 09:28:13 -0700
Subject: Calling tcl from python and viceversa
Message-ID: <453d10b2.0307190828.3c576f15@posting.google.com>

Hi!
I want to call tcl from python and python from tcl. The big picture is
that I?m writing an application GUI with tcl/tk and application logic
with python, so at least I want to call python events from the tk GUI.
I have read about _tkinter and tkapp.call although I couldn?t find any
detailed documentation. And, anyway, that seems to work in one
direction (python->tcl) but I don?t know how to make it work in the
other (tcl->python).
Thank you,
Carlos



From colinsm.spam-me-not at picsel.com  Tue Jul 15 09:43:48 2003
From: colinsm.spam-me-not at picsel.com (Colin S. Miller)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 14:43:48 +0100
Subject: [OT] sentances with two meanings
In-Reply-To: <87brvw3ula.fsf@pobox.com>
References: <37d6f77c.0307130932.1e3adf0d@posting.google.com> <3f11ac74$0$49101$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl> <ad052e5c.0307131718.4903430d@posting.google.com> <3F12808B.E53193B8@hotmail.com> <87brvw3ula.fsf@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <4701fb.8co.ln@195.171.216.1>

> 
> Matthew 25:35  I was a stranger, and you took me in.
Care to enlighten us with the second meaning?
I'm a native English speaker, but can only see one meaning
'I was unknown to you, yet you let me stay in your house'
Although 'took me in' could also mean 'accept as a friend'


Colin S. Miller




From thomas.buschhardt at iac-leipzig.de  Tue Jul 15 03:01:16 2003
From: thomas.buschhardt at iac-leipzig.de (Thomas Buschhardt)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 09:01:16 +0200
Subject: Socket and Tkinter Problem
Message-ID: <001801c34a9e$e2b6e0f0$9108000a@iacleipzig.de>

Hallo,

I have a problem with Tkinter and the module socket. In a console-window
everything works fine, but in a Tkinter-window I can no more use the
widgets. I found some other mails with this problem, but no solution (I
understand really :-)

Here is my code:
-----------------------------------------------
import win32ui, dde, string, time, os, sys, shutil
from socket import *
from Tkinter import *
from tkFileDialog import *
from tkMessageBox import *
import win32com.client

def sockelserver():
    while 1:
        HOST = 'localhost'
        PORT = 8578
        s = socket(AF_INET, SOCK_STREAM)
        s.bind((HOST,PORT))
        s.listen(1)
        log("wait...")
        hs,addr=s.accept()
        log("connected with: "+str(addr))
        while 1:
            data=hs.recv(1024)
            if not data:break
            if data=="'exit'":break
            erg='hallo'
#     erg=datawash(data)
            log("reiceved: "+data)
            hs.send(erg)
        hs.close()
        if data=="'exit'":break

def log(nachricht):
    anzahl_lines=string.count(logtext.get(1.0,END),'\n')
    if anzahl_lines>2000:logtext.delete(0.0,2.0)
    logtext.insert(END,time.asctime()+'\t'+nachricht+'\n')
    logtext.see(END)
    root.update()

root = Tk()
midframe =Frame(root, borderwidth=2, relief=GROOVE)
Label(midframe,text='Logg-Fenster').pack(side=TOP)
scrollbar = Scrollbar(midframe, orient=VERTICAL)
scrollbar.pack(fill=Y, side=RIGHT)
logtext = Text(midframe)
logtext.pack()
logtext.config(yscrollcommand=scrollbar.set)
scrollbar.config(command=logtext.yview)
midframe.pack(padx=2, pady=2)
botframe = Frame(root)
botframe.pack(padx=2, pady=2)
Button(botframe, text='Start',
command=sockelserver).pack(side=LEFT,padx=2,pady=2)
Button(botframe, text='Exit',
command=root.destroy).pack(side=LEFT,padx=2,pady=2)
root.title('DDE-Server')
root.mainloop()

--------------------------------------
The function is easy. I want to start a server that waits for connection and
answer with an result. The communication-protocol is printed out in a
Text-window.

Please help me out :-)
Cheers Thomas





From udo.gleich at web.de  Mon Jul 28 06:20:02 2003
From: udo.gleich at web.de (Udo Gleich)
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 12:20:02 +0200
Subject: mixin class
Message-ID: <3F24F8D2.E1ADFB08@web.de>

Hi,

I try to implement mixin classes. Thats why I
need to make a new class at runtime.

--tmp.py-------------------------------------

import new

class K1(object):
    pass

class K2(object):
    pass

mixed =  new.classobj("K1_K2", (K1, K1), {})
new_instance = new.instance(mixed, {})

print new_instance

---------------------------------------------

Making a new instance from the new class works
only if K1 is not derived from object. If I use
new style classes I get the following traceback:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "tmp.py", line 10, in ?
    new_instance = new.instance(mixed, {})
TypeError: instance() argument 1 must be class, not type

I use Python 2.2.3 and Win2000.

My question: How do I implement mixin classes
with new style classes?

Thanks,

Udo






From usenet_spam at janc.invalid  Tue Jul 15 22:20:30 2003
From: usenet_spam at janc.invalid (JanC)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 02:20:30 GMT
Subject: Confusing automated translators.
References: <mailman.1058263612.29286.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Xns93BA2C28C9309JanC@213.118.75.80>

"Alan Kennedy" <alanmk at hotmail.com> schreef:

> I was obviously completely off base with my interpretation of "pilote 
> ferme"/"experimental farm". :#)

"Experimental farm" or "pilot farm" would have been "ferme pilote" or 
"ferme exp?rimentale" or something like that...

-- 
JanC

"Be strict when sending and tolerant when receiving."
RFC 1958 - Architectural Principles of the Internet - section 3.9



From mwh at python.net  Tue Jul 22 09:53:53 2003
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 13:53:53 GMT
Subject: Problem building extension sample with Python 2.2.3
References: <da3bb005.0307211216.22425dec@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <7h34r1eznbq.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

iambren at sympatico.ca (Bren) writes:

> Hi, 
> 
> I'm trying to build the sample extension file from
> http://www.python.org/doc/current/ext/simpleExample.html.
> 
> I get a linker error:
> 
> Linking...
> spam.obj : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol
> __imp__Py_InitModule4TraceRefs
> 
> Also, I find it necessary to ignore python22_d.lib and link
> python22.lib explicitly when I make a Debug build.

There's your problem, I think.  You seem to be trying to build a debug
version of your module against a release version of Python.  This
won't work.

Cheers,
M.

-- 
  Check out the comments in this source file that start with:
  # Oh, lord help us.
            -- Mark Hammond gets to play with the Outlook object model



From mertz at gnosis.cx  Thu Jul 10 21:47:17 2003
From: mertz at gnosis.cx (David Mertz, Ph.D.)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 21:47:17 -0400
Subject: object instance data to docbook, xml, pdf, etc?
References: <xqxvfua6zmr.fsf@cola2.ca.boeing.com>
Message-ID: <lchD/kKkXYHM092yn@gnosis.cx>                

Harry George <harry.g.george at boeing.com> wrote previously:
|We are outputting the instance data, sort of like Gnosis xml_objectify,
|but to docbook DTD.

You *could* use XSLT to transform the gnosis.xml.pickle output into
DocBook (I'm pretty sure you mean that, objectify goes in the other
direction generic-XML -> python).

However, I personally find XSLT extremely awkward.  If someone doesn't
give you the done-deal, you might find it useful to take
gnosis.xml.pickle and fork it for your desired DocBook/XML output.  All
the issues about traversing objects is handled, you should pretty much
be able to just look for the XML tags that get written, and substitute
those as needed.

Yours, David...

--
Keeping medicines from the bloodstreams of the sick; food from the bellies
of the hungry; books from the hands of the uneducated; technology from the
underdeveloped; and putting advocates of freedom in prisons.  Intellectual
property is to the 21st century what the slave trade was to the 16th.




From tebeka at cs.bgu.ac.il  Wed Jul  9 08:43:30 2003
From: tebeka at cs.bgu.ac.il (Miki Tebeka)
Date: 9 Jul 2003 05:43:30 -0700
Subject: regexp and filenames
References: <befn47$5u4$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <mailman.1057723392.15805.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <33803989.0307090443.1a77b754@posting.google.com>

Hello,

> > I'm familiar with regexp, but I've only used it in Python to act on
> > the contents of a file, not filenames in a directory. Any pointers on
> > how to approach this are welcome!
http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/module-glob.html
and
http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/module-fnmatch.html

HTH.
Miki



From merman at snafu.de  Wed Jul  9 10:01:20 2003
From: merman at snafu.de (T. Kaufmann)
Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 16:01:20 +0200
Subject: Tkinter question - proper output in Text widget
Message-ID: <3F0C2030.40405@snafu.de>

Hi there,

I have some lines of code in a Tkinter programm - I want to list every single 
file of a zip-archive in a Text widget:

fp = os.popen("%s %s" % ('unzip -vl ', 'anyarchiv.zip', 'r')
for line in fp:
     textWidget.insert(END, "%s" % (line))

The result is that the columns are not really proper if the file-size of the 
listed files is different. An output example:


  Length   Method    Size  Ratio   Date   Time   CRC-32    Name
--------  ------  ------- -----   ----   ----   ------    ----
     1175  Defl:N      513  56%  05-23-03 13:51  084e4103  charset.py
      972  Defl:N      427  56%  04-05-03 18:42  b8bb850d  controller.py


Here it looks good but not in my application (in the Text widget). Whats wrong?
How can I made a better result (proper columns).

o-o

Thomas




From jmike at alum.mit.edu  Mon Jul 28 12:03:15 2003
From: jmike at alum.mit.edu (J. Michael Hammond)
Date: 28 Jul 2003 09:03:15 -0700
Subject: Any open source utilities built on top of PyUnit?
Message-ID: <f9290115.0307280803.50375227@posting.google.com>

I work in a company that has used Python since its (the company's)
inception in late 1999.  During his initial blaze of white-hot
hacking, the chief architect wrote a unit test class and a moderately
extensive set of unit and regression tests that use this unit test
class.  Since then, other developers have also written unit and
regression tests on top of that unit test class, so we have a pretty
large body of tests that use it.

We are beginning to make some deep changes to the testing
infrastructure that make now a good time to raise the question of
switching from our home-brewed UnitTestClass to the PyUnit package.

I've gone through the PyUnit documentation the decision comes down to
this:  are there any utilities out there, built on top of PyUnit, that
are gaining traction?  Say is there some kind of GUI package that
allows easy "run these suites on these machines" sorts of things?  Or
a test results reporting package?  Or any other things like that?

If there any tools out there like that, that would reduce our total
cost of switching (and maybe indicate the chance to use similar tools
in the future as de-facto standards evolve), then I think we might
well switch.  If not, it's probably not worth the rip-up-and-redo
effort for us to switch to PyUnit.

So what's the scoop?

Thanks!
  --JMike



From gsmatthew at ozemail.com.au  Fri Jul 18 21:29:44 2003
From: gsmatthew at ozemail.com.au (Graeme Matthew)
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 11:29:44 +1000
Subject: Threading Pool Event()
References: <0tRRa.212$vD1.8077@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au> <bf8ri5$cs7$1@panix1.panix.com> <NDZRa.273$vD1.11889@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au>
Message-ID: <ia1Sa.304$vD1.13822@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au>

ok still a bit confused sorry .... first attempt at a thread pool

Am I correct in saying that each thread runs in a continious loop

each thread calls queue.get. The get method will block and not return
anything until an item is placed into it. When an item is placed into it,
one of the threads will get assinged a job i.e the first one that happens to
be in use during the cycle ?

The job is returned to the thread, it runs with the job and does all the
processing then returns and calls queue.get again and waits for a job to
become available ?

When placing a job via Queue.put() one must acquire a lock place it and then
release it

Am i aslo correct in saying that queue is actually doing the blocking and
controls which thread gets the job ?

Lastly, sorry for all the questions, surely the CPU usage is the same when
the queue is waiting for jobs and when the threads are polling as theyre all
in one process anyway

thanks very much for your help

Graeme
Am i getting this or am i way off :-)


"Graeme Matthew" <gsmatthew at ozemail.com.au> wrote in message
news:NDZRa.273$vD1.11889 at nnrp1.ozemail.com.au...
> Aahz
>
> Thanks, ive actually been using your OSCON slides which have helped a lot.
> So it technically correct that all worker threads in a thread pool are
> either doing some work  or polling the queue to find out if there is a job
> to process ?
>
> eg: (pseudocodish :-))
>
> def run(self):
>
>     while 1:
>
>         self.lock.acquire()
>
>         if QueueManager.HasJob:
>             job = QueueManager.GetFreeJob()
>             __processJob(job)
>
>         self.lock.release()
>
>  def __processJob(self):
>
>         blah blah blah .....
>
>
> many thanks ......
> "Aahz" <aahz at pythoncraft.com> wrote in message
> news:bf8ri5$cs7$1 at panix1.panix.com...
> > In article <0tRRa.212$vD1.8077 at nnrp1.ozemail.com.au>,
> > Graeme Matthew <gsmatthew at ozemail.com.au> wrote:
> > >
> > >I just cannot seem to find any documentation that shows an example of
> > >using the factory method Event() in threads. I have a thread pool and
> > >if there are no jobs in a Queue I want them to wait for something to
> > >be inserted. When a job is inserted I want to send an Event, the first
> > >thread that picks it up runs with the job the rest wait for another
> > >insert Event.
> >
> > Given that you're already using a Queue, there is no, repeat NO, reason
> > for using an Event.  Just have your threads block on the Queue.
> > --
> > Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>
> http://www.pythoncraft.com/
> >
> > A: No.
> > Q: Is top-posting okay?
>
>





From kp at kyborg.dk  Thu Jul 10 09:46:14 2003
From: kp at kyborg.dk (Kim Petersen)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 15:46:14 +0200
Subject: Memory leak ?? Argh!
In-Reply-To: <3f0d5d3f$0$13154$edfadb0f@dread15.news.tele.dk>
References: <3f0d5d3f$0$13154$edfadb0f@dread15.news.tele.dk>
Message-ID: <3f0d6e26$0$13201$edfadb0f@dread15.news.tele.dk>

Kim Petersen wrote:

> i've run it up to 240000 recsets so far - and it eats about .1% of my
> mem pr. 1000 (doesn't really matter how much does it?).
> 

Correction - this will be a problem ... at 1M records its rounding the 
79MB ram mark....

-- 
Med Venlig Hilsen / Regards

Kim Petersen - Kyborg A/S (Udvikling)
IT - Innovationshuset
Havneparken 2
7100 Vejle
Tlf. +4576408183 || Fax. +4576408188




From duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk  Wed Jul 23 04:06:17 2003
From: duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk (Duncan Booth)
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 08:06:17 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: feature request: a better str.endswith
References: <2259b0e2.0307180401.5dae02f2@posting.google.com> <mailman.1058530829.7072.python-list@python.org> <3f17f883$0$49107$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl> <2259b0e2.0307190529.57338b3f@posting.google.com> <NpkSa.16049$7O.14695@nwrdny01.gnilink.net> <2259b0e2.0307200721.16ef2ea1@posting.google.com> <45228044.0307210522.1ef95144@posting.google.com> <2259b0e2.0307210918.614892ba@posting.google.com> <bfi4ir$t21$0@216.39.172.122> <Xns93C060AFACE6Cduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1> <bfjokm$kbc$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <Xns93C15C495A774duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) wrote in news:bfjokm$kbc$0 at 216.39.172.122:

>>'all_false(...)' is simply 'not any_true(...)'
>>'any_false(...)' is 'not all_true(...)'
>>
>>So you could get by with just two of these functions, in which case 
>>'any_of', and 'all_of' might be suitable names.
>>
> I don't think they're equivalent if they do short-circuiting.
> 

any_true short circuits as soon as it finds one that is true.
all_false short circuits as soon as it find one that is true.

all_true short circuits as soon as it finds on that is false.
any_false ditto.

Why aren't they equivalent?

-- 
Duncan Booth                                             duncan at rcp.co.uk
int month(char *p){return(124864/((p[0]+p[1]-p[2]&0x1f)+1)%12)["\5\x8\3"
"\6\7\xb\1\x9\xa\2\0\4"];} // Who said my code was obscure?



From skip at pobox.com  Tue Jul  8 12:02:02 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 11:02:02 -0500
Subject: path module
In-Reply-To: <HBF.20030708keeu@bombur.uio.no>
References: <mailman.1057651032.22842.python-list@python.org>
        <HBF.20030708keeu@bombur.uio.no>
Message-ID: <16138.60154.48719.630239@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    Hallvard> It's a long time since I used anything like that, but I think
    Hallvard> Tops-20 filename paths looked like this:

    Hallvard>     device:<dir.dir.dir>file.ext;version

    Hallvard> where most components were optional.

which is (not too surprisingly) very similar to VMS:

    device:[dir.dir.dir]file.ext;version

Skip




From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Tue Jul  1 22:38:13 2003
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 21:38:13 -0500
Subject: whitespace and ?asc()?
In-Reply-To: <3F02086D.9010300@ihug.co.nz> (Ray Tomes's message of "Wed, 02
 Jul 2003 10:17:17 +1200")
References: <3F02086D.9010300@ihug.co.nz>
Message-ID: <m2znjxk60a.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

>>>>> "Ray" == Ray Tomes <rtomes at ihug.co.nz> writes:

    Ray> Hi all I am totally new to python. On the whole I really like
    Ray> the design of the language and after just one day may be
    Ray> considered a convert.

Welcome.

    Ray> I was trying to find out the exact definition of whitespace
    Ray> so I went to look at strings.whitespace to find out which
    Ray> chars were whitespace, and found 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 32 which
    Ray> according to my ancient ascii chart are TAB, LF, VT, NP, CR,
    Ray> SPACE. Anyone know what NP = 12 is?

NP = New Page

    Ray> Also, in trying to find the ASCII (or is it ANSI) values for
    Ray> characters I could not find the reverse function for chr()
    Ray> [in BASIC it is asc()]- can someone please tell me what
    Ray> reverses chr()?

ord

    Ray> I had to do this yucky thing to decode whitespace ...

If you have a relatively recent version of python (2.0 or later),
perhaps you'll find this less yucky ...
 
  print [ord(c) for c in string.whitespace] 

This makes use of list comprehensions, which are often a cleaner and
faster way of writing simple combinations of 'for' loops and 'if'
statements:

  http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0202.html
  http://www.amk.ca/python/2.0/index.html#SECTION000600000000000000000

Cheers,
John Hunter




From kevino at tulane.edu  Tue Jul 22 20:07:35 2003
From: kevino at tulane.edu (Kevin Ollivier)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 17:07:35 -0700
Subject: Zlib problem on Windows XP??
References: <F68BA8D3-BC82-11D7-8ACF-000393CB1C86@tulane.edu> <mailman.1058908598.7677.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <e8krhvcpcfdfic1lonehshalktphicf360@4ax.com>

I apologize, when I installed the OpenOffice Python support, I had to
add an environment variable pointing to the OOo modules. It turns out
that there was a zlib.dll in that location, so taking off the
environment variable fixed the problem (for the moment...).

Sorry about that!

Kevin

On Tue, 22 Jul 2003 23:16:06 +0200, Gerhard H?ring <gh at ghaering.de>
wrote:

>Kevin Ollivier wrote:
>> Hi all,
>> 
>> When using the latest Python 2.2.x releases as well as the Python 2.3 
>> betas and rc1 on Win XP, I cannot import zlib. When I try, I get an 
>> error about the dynamic module not having an 'initzlib' symbol. The 
>> strange thing is that this problem seems to be XP-specific - on Windows 
>> 2K I do not get this error. I've installed Python 2.2.3 on two XP 
>> machines with the same results. I installed the latest beta on one of 
>> the machines, but the results were the same. (Haven't tried RC1 yet.) [...]
>
>I cannot confirm this. Windows XP Professional SP 1 (English):
>
>- Python 2.3b2 works
>- Python 2.3c1 works
>
>-- Gerhard




From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Mon Jul  7 09:35:19 2003
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 7 Jul 2003 09:35:19 -0400
Subject: anything new on the ternary operator?
References: <mailman.1057533670.9800.python-list@python.org> <beae42$d01$1@panix2.panix.com> <3F09252F.9B0F52BD@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <bebsun$f3g$1@panix3.panix.com>

In article <3F09252F.9B0F52BD at alcyone.com>,
Erik Max Francis  <max at alcyone.com> wrote:
>
>Bob's phrasing of it was obviously overly confrontational, but I do find
>it at least a little unfortunate that the final decision on PEP 308 only
>came indirectly (meaning not as any form of widespread public
>announcement, but rather as a side point in a presentation at a local
>conference) and many months after the voting processes was resolved
>(which was in February, if I recall correctly).

That I'll agree with enthusiastically.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"Not everything in life has a clue in front of it...."  --JMS



From hokiegal99 at hotmail.com  Sat Jul  5 13:48:31 2003
From: hokiegal99 at hotmail.com (hokiegal99)
Date: Sat, 05 Jul 2003 13:48:31 -0400
Subject: Calculating Year, Month and Day of Life
Message-ID: <be72ph$k60$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>

Hello,

I am a funeral director trying to write a small program that calculates 
the number of years, months and days a person has lived by entering the 
year, month and day of their birth. This is what I have so far:

#---------------------
from time import *
local = localtime()

print "Enter the year of birth:"; y = input()
print "Enter the month of birth:"; m = input()
print "Enter the day of birth:"; d = input()

age = y,m,d
print age
print local
#----------------------

The output looks similiar to this:
(1934, 2, 7)
(2003, 7, 5, 13, 20, 0, 5, 186, 1)

My problem is that localtime is a list of 9 integers while age is a list 
of 3 integers. Is it possible to make localtime() only return the first 
3 integers? If so, how would I then do calculations on the two lists' 
individual parts? For example, how would I instruct localtime() to 
subtract the first integer from age's list from the first intger in its 
own list (2003 - 1934)?

Also, I am new to python, but I like it a lot and have picked it up 
quickly. If my approach to this solving this problem is completely 
wrong, please point me in the right direction.

Thanks in advance!!!




From cneal92 at lycos.com  Thu Jul 10 12:50:45 2003
From: cneal92 at lycos.com (O'Neal Computer Programmer)
Date: 10 Jul 2003 09:50:45 -0700
Subject: python scripting game The Temple Of Elemental Evil update
References: <mailman.1057616111.6554.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <82ff1d8b.0307100850.4098f8d4@posting.google.com>

"Delaney, Timothy C (Timothy)" <tdelaney at avaya.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.1057616111.6554.python-list at python.org>...
> > From: Geoff Gerrietts [mailto:geoff at gerrietts.net]
> > 
> > I can't speak for the Temple of Elemental Evil in particular, but this
> > pattern holds true in dozens of similar titles. If they're doing
> > something different, they're doing something really very different.
> 
> Troika have specifically said that it is being used in the AI 
> (presumably NPC and PC if the player turns on PC AI during combat).
> 
> The dialog system is basically an upgraded version of the Arcanum dialog 
> system, so whether that's been augmented with Python I have no idea.
> 
> That's as in-depth as I know.
> 
> Tim Delaney

Well, that's great. We can create new NPCs :D



From gh at ghaering.de  Sun Jul  6 16:45:04 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Sun, 06 Jul 2003 22:45:04 +0200
Subject: help! - cmd line interpreter gone "dumb"
In-Reply-To: <u6_Na.81768$2ay.70089@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>
References: <u6_Na.81768$2ay.70089@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>
Message-ID: <3F088A50.8070603@ghaering.de>

Tim wrote:
> Maybe I've been working too long, but has anyon had their python interpreter
> stop taking commands.
> 
> The IDLE version works fine, but under Windoze:
> 
> 1) execute "python" in teh command shell
> 2) ...interpreter comes up fine
> 3) type in anything and you get "SyntaxError: invalid syntax"
> 
> Literally, you could type in "import sys" or anything common and you get the
> same results.

I've seen that when I used os.spawn* (or was it os.execv*?), apparently 
in a wrong way.

> Any help greatly appreciated--thanks.

Typical Windows answer: reboot and try again ;-)

-- Gerhard




From bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au  Wed Jul 23 02:36:04 2003
From: bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au (Ben Finney)
Date: 23 Jul 2003 16:26:04 +0950
Subject: python assignment
References: <fbf8d8f2.0307221659.1dd1ac77@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <slrnbhrqtj.9jf.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>

On 22 Jul 2003 17:59:08 -0700, dan wrote:
> What I need is an exact and unambiguous algorithm for determining when
> an assignment will change the id of the variable

As I understand it, this is specific to the implementation of each type.
The only sensible way to code is as if the identity of an object, on
assignment, were completely unpredictable.

The examples you gave showed that integers share identity with other
integers of the same value, while floats do not.  This demonstrates why
it's a poor idea to expect assignment to behave a particular way w.r.t.
object identity: an alternative implementation may be more efficient,
yet have a different relationship with identity.

If you write your code so that it expects a particular identity
behaviour w.r.t. assignment, that prevents future implementation changes
without breaking your code.

-- 
 \        "Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from |
  `\                           bad judgement."  -- Frederick P. Brooks |
_o__)                                                                  |
http://bignose.squidly.org/ 9CFE12B0 791A4267 887F520C B7AC2E51 BD41714B



From tayss_temp at yahoo.com  Sun Jul 27 09:37:09 2003
From: tayss_temp at yahoo.com (Tayss)
Date: 27 Jul 2003 06:37:09 -0700
Subject: Static typing
References: <LvdUa.905$DU.696@fe12.atl2.webusenet.com> <3f218ef1$0$27926$626a54ce@news.free.fr> <3f219c8d$1@nntp0.pdx.net> <lWAUa.25680$Gw4.21886@fe06.atl2.webusenet.com> <3f23ae06$0$21093$626a54ce@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <5627c6fa.0307270537.1afc94d3@posting.google.com>

Bruno Desthuilliers <bdesth.nospam at removeme.free.fr> wrote in message news:<3f23ae06$0$21093$626a54ce at news.free.fr>...
> > FWIW, I do favor the addition of optional static typing for the two
> > reasons Scott described - interface documentation and optimization.
> 
> Interface documentation may be obtained in others ways (docstring for 
> exemple).

Indeed!  As I remember, Jython uses doc strings for typing, when it
presents an API to Java.  So it's in the comments, and I think that's
an oddly appropriate place for hints to the compiler.


> And I'm not sure static typing would optimize anything, but 
> not being a Python (nor anything else) guru, I would not bet my hand on 
> this...

If you mess around with lisp, you can easily see the compiled assembly
language of your functions when you experiment with optional typing. 
(By calling the function "disassemble".)  Normally, the compiler spews
a lot of general code because it doesn't know what you've passed in. 
But when you promise that you're passing in numbers or something, the
assembly language is much tighter.

Sort of like when someone asks you to move something to a different
house, and you have no idea how big it is.  If you were told, "It's
just a pillow," you know that you don't need to order a huge truck or
take any special precautions.



From steve at cyber.com.au  Sun Jul 20 21:56:51 2003
From: steve at cyber.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 20 Jul 2003 18:56:51 -0700
Subject: A challenge to the ASCII proponents.
References: <mailman.1058665173.19987.python-list@python.org> <3F1AAC0A.7A6326B@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <d13e4243.0307201756.6195e08a@posting.google.com>

Alan Kennedy <alanmk at hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<3F1AAC0A.7A6326B at hotmail.com>...
> Alan Kennedy:
> 
> > The final point I'd like to make [explicit] is: nobody had to ask
> > me how or why my xml snippet worked: there were no tricks. Nobody
> > asked for debugging information, or for reasons why they couldn't
> > see it:

Sorry Alan, but when I follow your instructions and save your XML to
disk and open it in Opera 6.01 on Win 98, I get this:

XML parsing failed: not well-formed (1:0)

At least it renders visibly in my browser, although I don't think its
rendering the way you wished. <grin>

(For the record, this is the contents of the XML file, triple-quoted
for your convenience:
"""<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?>
<verb>&#x3b3;&#x3af;&#x3b3;&#x3bd;&#x3c9;&#x3c3;&#x3ba;&#x3c9;</verb>""")


[snip]
> In summary:
> 
> 1. I managed to make a greek word, using the original greek glyphs,
> appear on everyone's "rendering surface", by posting a 7-bit clean XML
> snippet. Another poster widened the software coverage even further by
> posting a 7-bit clean HTML snippet. Both of our 7-bit markup snippets
> travelled safely throughout the entirety of UseNet, including all the
> 7-bit relays and gateways.

I couldn't see either rendered correctly in either Opera's newsreader
or the Google archive.

> 2. The only other person who managed it, without using markup, was
> Martin von Loewis, who is so good at this stuff that he confidently
> makes statements like "what I did was right: it was Google that got it
> wrong". Martin used the UTF-8 character set, i.e. a non-ASCII,
> non-7-bit-clean character set, to achieve this. Although I'm sure
> Martin could have managed it with UTF-7 as well.

Martin's effort did work for me in Opera's newsreader, but not in the
Google Groups archive. But we already knew that Google broke it.

> 3. If anybody else was willing to give it a try, they don't seem to
> have had enough confidence in their knowledge of encodings, MIME,
> transports, NNTP, etc, etc, to have actually hit the "send" button, in
> case it didn't work. Which doesn't bode well for the average person in
> the street: if the technology specialists in this newsgroup don't feel
> in command of the issue, what hope for everyone else?

Exactly. Which brings us back to Ben's suggestion: when writing for a
general audience using unknown systems, stick to ASCII, or at least
follow your rich text with a description of what your reader should
see:

"""And I can use Umlauts (???) -- you should see a, o and u all in
lowercase with two dots on top."""

It's a mess and I despair. It would be nice if everyone used bug-free
XML-aware newsreaders, browsers and mail clients, but the majority
don't. That's why I always practice defensive writing whenever I use
any character I can't see on my keyboard, and spell it out in ASCII.
That's not very satisfactory, but its better than some random
percentage of your audience seeing "?????".


-- 
Steven D'Aprano



From ee01b092 at ee.iitm.ernet.in  Tue Jul 15 22:51:56 2003
From: ee01b092 at ee.iitm.ernet.in (Vinoo Vasudevan)
Date: 15 Jul 2003 19:51:56 -0700
Subject: String Manipulation
References: <2c6431ab.0307151223.4173c4ee@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <45f7ff62.0307151851.f59129f@posting.google.com>

lamar_air at hotmail.com (lamar_air) wrote in message news:<2c6431ab.0307151223.4173c4ee at posting.google.com>...
> I need a piece of code that takes a string like this string1 =
> "aaa/bbb/ccc/dd" and extracts a string containting the character after
> the last "/"
> 
> So for this example the result would be "dd"
> 
> like this:
> for i=0; string1.right(i) != '/'; i++
> 
> result = string1.mid(i, string1.length())
> 
> but in python.

How about this: 
string1 = 'aaa/bbb/ccc/dd'
result = string1[string1.rfind('/')+1:]

Hope it's helpful,

Vinoo



From tomas at fancy.org  Tue Jul 15 13:42:00 2003
From: tomas at fancy.org (Tom Plunket)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 10:42:00 -0700
Subject: Stop Python from exiting upon error in Windows
References: <vh6jmv2f767h8b@corp.supernews.com> <n2o6hvcahk7dlmn9t26tvis8umnfg1tdeo@4ax.com> <pan.2003.07.15.03.21.44.980226@zexcite.zcom> <vh84k8r66t8885@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <ete8hvg5nc2k50qkq5db6htgsj09ru2seg@4ax.com>

John Roth wrote:

> You don't have to put in the full path to Python if you
> rig the command prompt you're using to add Python to
> the path as the initialization command. That trick should
> also let you set up PYTHONPATH for the project.

Alternatively, you just set up a file association (which has
probably already been done for you by the installer) and type in
the filename at the command line:

C:\MyProject> main.py

> I keep a command prompt instance in each project
> directory, pointing to the correct initialization for the
> project.

Wow, I just have a right-click context menu handler for
directories to open a command prompt "right here", and don't
require setup beyond what gets executed in the app.  :)

> ...each test module.

Ugh, seperate tests that must be run by a person?  Prefer one
test "app" that runs all tests.

> A mouse click to switch windows, three key strokes and voila! the 
> test runs (or not, as the case may be.)

I just type "test.py" at the command prompt.  :)  Usually, I can
abbreviate this to one or two presses of the up-arrow key.

> It avoids any possible problem with PythonWin polluting itself by 
> not refreshing everything on a retest.

PythonWin?  Debuggers?  Craziness.  I haven't opened a debugger
for Python in over a month, and the last time I used one was
because I was too lazy to write proper test coverage.  ;)

-tom!

-- 
There's really no reason to send a copy of your
followup to my email address, so please don't.



From bh at intevation.de  Mon Jul 28 06:44:31 2003
From: bh at intevation.de (Bernhard Herzog)
Date: 28 Jul 2003 12:44:31 +0200
Subject: emacs python-mode questions: C-c C-c and broken docstring fill
References: <87ptjwre0x.fsf@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <6qy8yjj5gw.fsf@salmakis.intevation.de>

jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee) writes:

> 2. A while ago I 'upgraded' to a version of python-mode (from
> somewhere on sourceforge, I think -- perhaps Python CVS, don't
> remember) which somebody here claimed was able to fill comments
> without needing blank lines before and after the comment.  It does do
> that, but the new version also breaks filling text in docstrings
> (under particular circumstances which I haven't figured out, but which
> occurs very frequently).  I get something like: "The parameter start
> is not the beginning of a python string".  Where does the latest
> python-mode live, and is this fill bug with docstrings fixed?

One situation where this can happen is if point is the at the @ in the
following triple quoted string:

"""nobody expects the "spanish" @inquision"""

The following patch should fix this I think (I haven't tested this very
well though):

*** python-mode.el.~4.35.~	Sat Jul 19 17:28:04 2003
--- python-mode.el	Mon Jul 28 12:25:04 2003
***************
*** 3714,3720 ****
        (py-fill-comment justify))
       ;; are we inside a string?
       ((nth 3 pps)
!       (py-fill-string (nth 2 pps)))
       ;; otherwise use the default
       (t
        (fill-paragraph justify)))))
--- 3714,3720 ----
        (py-fill-comment justify))
       ;; are we inside a string?
       ((nth 3 pps)
!       (py-fill-string (nth 8 pps)))
       ;; otherwise use the default
       (t
        (fill-paragraph justify)))))


   Bernhard

-- 
Intevation GmbH                                 http://intevation.de/
Sketch                                 http://sketch.sourceforge.net/
Thuban                                  http://thuban.intevation.org/



From cookedm+news at physics.mcmaster.ca  Thu Jul 31 17:08:55 2003
From: cookedm+news at physics.mcmaster.ca (David M. Cooke)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 17:08:55 -0400
Subject: Python speed vs csharp
References: <rkdc7poiachh.1x4jtxjzaf3zo.dlg@40tude.net>
Message-ID: <qnkn0eutndk.fsf@arbutus.physics.mcmaster.ca>

At some point, Mike <mike at nospam.com> wrote:
> Here's the chunk of code that I'm spending most of my time executing:
>
> # Rational approximation for erfc(x) (Abramowitz & Stegun, Sec. 7.1.26)
> # Fifth order approximation. |error| <= 1.5e-7 for all x
> #
> def erfc( x ):
>    p  =  0.3275911
>    a1 =  0.254829592
>    a2 = -0.284496736
>    a3 =  1.421413741
>    a4 = -1.453152027
>    a5 =  1.061405429
>
>    t = 1.0 / (1.0 + p*float(x))
>    erfcx = ( (a1 + (a2 + (a3 +
>              (a4 + a5*t)*t)*t)*t)*t ) * math.exp(-(x**2))
>    return erfcx

With python2.2, a million iterations takes 9.93 s on my machine.
With python2.3, 8.13 s.

Replacing float(x) with just x (multiplying by p (a float) is enough to
coerce x to a float), with python 2.3 I'm down to 6.98 s. Assigning
math.exp to a global variable exp cuts this down to 6.44 s:

exp = math.exp
def erfc(x):
    [...]
    t = 1.0 / (1.0 + p*x)
    erfcx = ... * exp(-x**2)
    return erfcx

You can go a little further and look up ways of optimising the
polynomial evaluation -- Horner's method is a good, general-purpose
technique, but you can get faster if you're willing to put some effort
into it. I believe Ralston and Rabonwitz's numerical analysis book has
a discussion on this (sorry, I don't have the complete reference; the
book's at home).

That's about the best you can do in pure python.

Now look at how you're calling this routine. Can you call it on a
bunch of numbers at once? Using Numeric arrays (http://numpy.org/),
calling the above routine on an array of a million numbers takes
1.6 s. Calling it 1000 times on an array of 1000 numbers takes 0.61 s.

Using erfc from scipy.special, this takes 0.65 s on a array of a
million numbers. Scipy (from http://scipy.org/) is a library of
scientific tools, supplementing Numeric. I believe the routine it uses
for erfc comes from the Cephes library (http://netlib.org/), which has
a error < 3.4e-14 for x in (-13,0). Calling it 1000 times on an array
of 1000 numbers takes 0.43 s.

(Ok, I don't know why 1000 times on arrays of 1000 numbers is twice as
fast as once on an array of 1000*1000 numbers.)

Extrapolating from your numbers, your C program is 28x faster. Using
scipy.special.erfc on moderate-sized arrays is 18.9x faster. That's
pretty good :)

For numerical codes in Python, I *strongly* suggest that you use
Numeric (or numarray, it's successor). It's _much_ better to pass 1000
numbers around as a aggregate, instead of 1 number 1000 times.

-- 
|>|\/|<
/--------------------------------------------------------------------------\
|David M. Cooke
|cookedm(at)physics(dot)mcmaster(dot)ca



From vze4rx4y at verizon.net  Sat Jul 26 20:09:00 2003
From: vze4rx4y at verizon.net (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 00:09:00 GMT
Subject: very Very VERY dumb Question About The new Set( ) 's
References: <20030723144732.13232.00000523@mb-m10.aol.com> <3f205d3c.745868662@news.blueyonder.co.uk> <xyZTa.23921$0F4.20108@nwrdny02.gnilink.net>
Message-ID: <wKEUa.4422$AO6.252@nwrdny02.gnilink.net>

> > Since both dictionaries and Sets require unique members/keys,
> > why not use the dictionary braces but without the key/value
> > syntax. So:
> >
> > mySet = {1,2,3,4}
> >
> > Which is illegal for a dictionary but would be OK for a Set.
> > It also just happens to be the same delimiters used in math
> > for sets...

>
>
> +1 if Python's parser could handle it (which seems dubious).


FWIW, I think the easiest and most readable syntax is:

    mySet = set(1, 2, 3, 4)

BTW, this is a bit reminiscent of the discussion about a syntax
for entering fixed decimals.  After much discussion, someone
realized the obvious and noted that real programs mostly
take in their fixed point data from external sources and would
rarely appear as a constant in a program; hence, there was no
need for a special syntax -- just Decimal(data) would do the
trick.  (Think about a program like Quicken for checkbook
accounting -- none of the check/deposit amounts are known
in advance so the program is unlikely to contain any fixed
decimal constants except zero and $0.01).


Raymond Hettinger






From BartolomeSintes at ono.com  Thu Jul 10 11:07:57 2003
From: BartolomeSintes at ono.com (Bartolomé Sintes Marco)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 15:07:57 GMT
Subject: keep original date and time of unzipped files
Message-ID: <hjfPa.26867$FN3.2232703@news.ono.com>

Hi,

In this mail,
http://www.mail-archive.com/kragen-hacks at canonical.org/msg00030.html
Kragen Sitaker explained how to unzip a file in Python

#!/usr/local/bin/python
# learn how to use zipfile module

import sys, zipfile, os, os.path

def unzip_file_into_dir(file, dir):
    os.mkdir(dir, 0777)
    zfobj = zipfile.ZipFile(file)
    for name in zfobj.namelist():
        if name.endswith('/'):
            os.mkdir(os.path.join(dir, name))
        else:
            outfile = open(os.path.join(dir, name), 'wb')
            outfile.write(zfobj.read(name))
            outfile.close()

def main():
    unzip_file_into_dir(open(sys.argv[1]), sys.argv[2])

if __name__ == '__main__': main()

The unzipped files date and time are not the original ones, but
when the unzipping is done. Is there a way to keep the
original files date and time?

Thanks,
Barto





From gh at ghaering.de  Sat Jul 12 11:55:12 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 17:55:12 +0200
Subject: The ASPN compiler
In-Reply-To: <2k30hv4t88n5iu7nj5g3e55gd275rumf7i@4ax.com>
References: <u8gugvovob6k3jou2oi4olsr6mp1fbqlqn@4ax.com>
	<mailman.1057969337.5637.python-list@python.org>
	<2k30hv4t88n5iu7nj5g3e55gd275rumf7i@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3F102F60.7050108@ghaering.de>

Fuzzyman wrote:
> On Sat, 12 Jul 2003 02:21:33 +0200, Gerhard H?ring <gh at ghaering.de>
> wrote:
> 
>>Fuzzyman wrote:
>>
>>>What's the score on this (the ASPN python compiler) 
>>
>>There was a proof-of-concept implementation of a Python compiler for the 
>>.NET platform done by ActiveState and sponsored by Microsoft.
>>
>>>- is it a true
>>>compiler for python ?
>>Read the whitepaper, available on the ActiveState site.
> 
> Done that - its not entirely clear - any chance you could answer the
> question......

The resulting output can be executed by the .NET runtime and two-way 
interoperability between Python and .NET is currenty possible according 
to that paper.

>>>- what does it output - binary or C++ for .NET
>>>framework............ 
>>Read the whitepaper, available on the ActiveState site.
> 
> Done that - its not entirely clear - any chance you could answer the
> question......

MSIL.

>>>if the latter then it could be very cool as it
>>>may work with the PocketPC 2003 SDK.... for producing binaries for
>>>PDAs from python... cool...
>>
>>Forget it. Instead what you probably want is a Python implementation for 
>>Windows CE 3.0. There is one.
> 
> Not for the SH3 processor... doesn't produce binaries.

Then you could ask the maintainer to produce such binaries. Or download 
the free WinCE SDK + Emulator + whatnot yourself and build binaries 
yourself. You might even learn a little C that way ;-)

Or install Linux or NetBSD on that handheld instead :-)

-- Gerhard




From ben at dadsetan.com  Mon Jul 14 17:51:42 2003
From: ben at dadsetan.com (Behrang Dadsetan)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 22:51:42 +0100
Subject: Newbie with sort text file question
References: <86d2ca4.0307121146.3deb854a@posting.google.com> <beq357$thj$0@216.39.172.122> <86d2ca4.0307131344.3fb3b9d3@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3F1325EE.8030204@dadsetan.com>

Hi Stuart,

You can try some regexp with the re module. I wrote you an example in 
the newgroup.

Regards, Ben.

stuartc wrote:
> Hi Bengt:
> 
> Thank you. Your code worked perfectly based on the text file I
> provided.
> 
> Unfortunately for me, my real text file has one slight variation that
> I did not account for.  That is, the fruit name does not always have
> an "_" after its name.  For example, apple below does not an an "_"
> attached to it.
> 
> banana_c \\yellow
> apple   \\green
> orange_b \\yellow
> 
> 
> This variation in my text file caused a problem with the program.
> Here's the error.
> 
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "G:/Python22/Sort_Fruit.py", line 47, in ?
>     for fruit, dummyvar in fruitlist: fruitfreq[fruit] =
> fruitfreq.get(fruit, 0)+1
> ValueError: unpack list of wrong size
> 
> I tried to debug and fix this variation, but I wasn't able to.  I did
> notice that your split, splits each line in the file into two fields,
> as long as there's an "_" with a fruit name.  If the fruit name does
> not have an "_", then the split does not occur. I think this is
> related to the problem, but I couldn't figure out how to fix it.
> 
> Any help will be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
> 
> - Stuart
> 
> 
> 
> bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) wrote in message news:<beq357$thj$0 at 216.39.172.122>...
> 
>>On 12 Jul 2003 12:46:51 -0700, stuart_clemons at us.ibm.com (stuartc) wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Hi:
>>>
>>>I'm not a total newbie, but I'm pretty green.  I need to sort a text
>>>file and then get a total for the number of occurances for a part of
>>>the string. Hopefully, this will explain it better:
>>>
>>>Here's the text file: 
>>>
>>>banana_c \\yellow
>>>apple_a \\green
>>>orange_b \\yellow
>>>banana_d \\green
>>>orange_a \\orange
>>>apple_w \\yellow
>>>banana_e \\green
>>>orange_x \\yellow
>>>orange_y \\orange
>>>
>>>I would like two output files:
>>>
>>>1) Sorted like this, by the fruit name (the name before the dash)
>>>
>>>apple_a \\green
>>>apple_w \\yellow
>>>banana_c \\yellow
>>>banana_d \\green
>>>banana_e \\green
>>>orange_a \\orange
>>>orange_b \\yellow
>>>orange_x \\yellow
>>>orange_y \\orange
>>>
>>>2) Then summarized like this, ordered with the highest occurances
>>>first:
>>>
>>>orange occurs 4
>>>banana occurs 3
>>>apple occurs 2
>>>
>>>Total occurances is 9
>>>
>>>Thanks for any help !
>>
>>===< stuartc.py >========================================================
>>import StringIO
>>textf = StringIO.StringIO(r"""
>>banana_c \\yellow
>>apple_a \\green
>>orange_b \\yellow
>>banana_d \\green
>>orange_a \\orange
>>apple_w \\yellow
>>banana_e \\green
>>orange_x \\yellow
>>orange_y \\orange
>>""")
>>
>># I would like two output files:
>># (actually two files ?? Ok)
>>
>># 1) Sorted like this, by the fruit name (the name before the dash)
>>
>>fruitlist = [line.split('_',1) for line in textf if line.strip()]
>>fruitlist.sort()
>>
>># apple_a \\green
>># apple_w \\yellow
>># banana_c \\yellow
>># banana_d \\green
>># banana_e \\green
>># orange_a \\orange
>># orange_b \\yellow
>># orange_x \\yellow
>># orange_y \\orange
>>
>>outfile_1 = StringIO.StringIO()
>>outfile_1.write(''.join(['_'.join(pair) for pair in fruitlist]))
>>
>># 2) Then summarized like this, ordered with the highest occurances
>># first:
>>
>># orange occurs 4
>># banana occurs 3
>># apple occurs 2
>>
>>outfile_2 = StringIO.StringIO()
>>fruitfreq = {}
>>for fruit, dummyvar in fruitlist: fruitfreq[fruit] = fruitfreq.get(fruit, 0)+1
>>fruitfreqlist = [(occ,name) for name,occ in fruitfreq.items()]
>>fruitfreqlist.sort()
>>fruitfreqlist.reverse()
>>outfile_2.write('\n'.join(['%s occurs %s'%(name,occ) for occ,name in fruitfreqlist]+['']))
>>
>># Total occurances is 9
>>print >> outfile_2,"Total occurances [sic] is [sic] %s" % reduce(int.__add__, fruitfreq.values())
>>
>>## show results
>>print '\nFile 1:\n------------\n%s------------' % outfile_1.getvalue()
>>print '\nFile 2:\n------------\n%s------------' % outfile_2.getvalue()
>>=========================================================================
>>executed:
>>
>>[15:52] C:\pywk\clp>stuartc.py
>>
>>File 1:
>>------------
>>apple_a \\green
>>apple_w \\yellow
>>banana_c \\yellow
>>banana_d \\green
>>banana_e \\green
>>orange_a \\orange
>>orange_b \\yellow
>>orange_x \\yellow
>>orange_y \\orange
>>------------
>>
>>File 2:
>>------------
>>orange occurs 4
>>banana occurs 3
>>apple occurs 2
>>Total occurances [sic] is [sic] 9
>>------------
>>
>>Is that what you wanted?
>>
>>Regards,
>>Bengt Richter
> 




From mertz at gnosis.cx  Mon Jul  7 01:56:08 2003
From: mertz at gnosis.cx (Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters)
Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 01:56:08 -0400
Subject: Newbie Question: Abstract Class in Python (fwd)
Message-ID: <4tQC/kKkXkWX092yn@gnosis.cx>         

|Kevin Bass <kbass1 at nc.rr.com> wrote:
|>I am new to Python and want to know how to implement an abstract
|>class? I have read through different books and I have no found this
|>information.  Thanks!

aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) wrote previously:
|Simple answer: you don't.  Python doesn't really have that concept.  If
|you tell us what you're trying to do, we can explain how to do that in
|Python.

While I agree with some of the warnings against using an abstract class
unnecessarily, it *is* both possible and straightforward to do so in
Python.

Here's the right part of the warnings.  Python isn't based around the
idea of not trusting later programmers like some bondage-and-discipline
languages are.  There is no need to prohibit users from using your class
how they think best.  Languages like C++ and Java go overboard with
their concepts of encapsulation.

Here's the wrong part.  An abstract parent might very well be able to
provide implementations of many useful methods, but in principle not
want to program some essential support method.  The very reasonable idea
is that there can be several different ways for children to implement
the missing functionality... some implelentation is required, but the
parent doesn't want to pre-judge which one children should choose.

At bare minimum, here's how to implement an abstract class:

    class Abstract:
        def __init__(self):
            raise NotImplementedError, "Must subclass me"

A non-abstract child will need to implement its own __init__() to become
concrete.

But a better approach is usually to have an abstract parent be specific
about what it needs:

    >>> class SpecificAbstract:
    ...     def __init__(self):
    ...         if not hasattr(self,'support_meth'):
    ...             raise NotImplementedError, "Must provide .support_meth()"
    ...     def some_method(self):
    ...         foo = self.support_meth()
    ...         #...more with foo...
    ...
    >>> o = SpecificAbstract()
    Traceback (most recent call last):
      File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
      File "<stdin>", line 4, in __init__
    NotImplementedError: Must provide .support_meth()
    >>> class InadequateChild(SpecificAbstract):
    ...     def other_method(self):
    ...         "...do something..."
    >>> o = InadequateChild()
    Traceback (most recent call last):
      File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
      File "<stdin>", line 4, in __init__
    NotImplementedError: Must provide .support_meth()
    >>> class SpecificConcrete(SpecificAbstract):
    ...     def support_meth(self):
    ...         return "Something"
    ...
    >>> o = SpecificConcrete()
    >>> # happy

At times it is also useful to only have certain non-magic methods raise
NotImplementedError.  The missing functionality might not be needed for
every instance, but you let users know that it is as early as possible.

Yours, Lulu...

--
 mertz@   _/_/_/_/_/_/_/ THIS MESSAGE WAS BROUGHT TO YOU BY:_/_/_/_/ v i
gnosis  _/_/                    Postmodern Enterprises         _/_/  s r
.cx    _/_/  MAKERS OF CHAOS....                              _/_/   i u
      _/_/_/_/_/ LOOK FOR IT IN A NEIGHBORHOOD NEAR YOU_/_/_/_/_/    g s





From deets_noospaam at web.de  Thu Jul 31 13:46:55 2003
From: deets_noospaam at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 19:46:55 +0200
Subject: What does "*list" mean?
References: <fb0466d1.0307310929.3c8eb2a3@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bgbkmf$gn9$05$1@news.t-online.com>

Greg Smethells wrote:

> What exactly does "*values" mean in the following code? Is this a
> pointer to a PyList? Why can I not find good documentation on this any
> where? I must be blind:

Just two days ago I had the same qustion, and I got this as answer from
Raymond Hettinger:

http://www.python.org/dev/doc/devel/ref/calls.html

Regarding your C question: I didn't do such a thing, but *list only makes
the items of list be used as distinct arguments - so its more a matter of
the function signature you're calling. I'm sure you'll find something about
variable list arguments somewhere - that means that you function looks like
this:

def foo(arg1, arg2, *args):
  ....

Diez



From lorenb2 at bezeqint.net  Thu Jul 31 05:19:24 2003
From: lorenb2 at bezeqint.net (Bill Loren)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 11:19:24 +0200
Subject: how to gunzip a string ?
References: <025001c356a5$2d9aad10$6400a8c0@EVOD31> <bg90oi$v1d$1@main.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <002001c35744$d570fbd0$6400a8c0@EVOD31>

oh and another extremely_important question:
were the library+dummy_interface tested ?

thanks
~ B
----- Original Message -----
From: "Fredrik Lundh" <fredrik at pythonware.com>
To: <python-list at python.org>
Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2003 7:47 PM
Subject: Re: how to gunzip a string ?


> Bill Loren wrote:
> > I guess I really need some sort of library that will do a gzip decoding
to a
> > compressed string.
> > assume that I have a gzipped_string_reply I got from an HTTP server,
> > It'd be superb to have a gunzip class that takes it and return its
decoded
> > equivalent.
> >
> > I managed to do it with the gzip library only after saving the string to
a
> > file and then opening and reading it
> > with gzip.open, but it's extremely ugly.
> >
> > any suggestions ?
>
> trying again:
>
>     http://effbot.org/zone/consumer-gzip.htm
>     (GzipConsumer module)
>
> interface code (based on john j. lee's posting):
>
>     from GzipConsumer import GzipConsumer
>
>     class stupid_gzip_consumer:
>         def __init__(self): self.data = []
>         def feed(self, data): self.data.append(data)
>
>     def gunzip(data):
>         c = stupid_gzip_consumer()
>         gzc = GzipConsumer(c)
>         gzc.feed(data)
>         gzc.close()
>         return "".join(c.data)
>
>     unzipped_data = gunzip(gzipped_data)
>
> </F>
>
>
>
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>






From pedro.werneck at bol.com.br  Sun Jul 20 10:23:37 2003
From: pedro.werneck at bol.com.br (Pedro Werneck)
Date: 20 Jul 2003 07:23:37 -0700
Subject: classes
References: <pan.2003.07.19.20.46.33.864915@bogus.domain.org>
Message-ID: <ef72fb2b.0307200623.3aba4756@posting.google.com>

"Pablo" <pablo at bogus.domain.org> wrote in message 

> Can someone help me or point me to some documentation with strong emphasis
> on classes? It would be perfect if that documentation had some comparisons
> with classes in Java or C++.

Guido's essay on new style classes is a good starting point... 

http://www.python.org/2.2.1/descrintro.html



From peter at engcorp.com  Sun Jul 20 09:32:55 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 09:32:55 -0400
Subject: Importing WMI module into Python CGI script fails
References: <bfe49o$boan8$1@ID-174077.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <3F1A9A07.F71D274D@engcorp.com>

MK wrote:
> 
> I'm working with IIS on W2K server. I'm trying to
> use module "wmi" in a CGI script but with no success.
> 
> The following works:
> 
>     import cgitb; cgitb.enable()
>     cgi.test()
> 
> ... but the following isn't working:
> 
>     import cgitb; cgitb.enable()
>     import wmi ## fails here, with msg "wmi undefined"
>     cgi.test()

Does it really just say "wmi undefined"?  If not, please
cut and paste the precise traceback which you really get.

-Peter



From fmeehan at ctbr.com  Wed Jul 23 17:22:12 2003
From: fmeehan at ctbr.com (Francois Meehan)
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 17:22:12 -0400
Subject: Getting started with win32pdh...
In-Reply-To: <20030723123749.C356@ActiveState.com>
References: <bfmg5a$20v$1@main.gmane.org> <20030723123749.C356@ActiveState.com>
Message-ID: <bfmu7r$glm$1@main.gmane.org>

Super, just what I was looking for.

Thanks Mick,

Francois

Trent Mick wrote:
> [Francois Meehan wrote]
> 
>>Hi all,
>>
>>Can someone give me an example on how to use win32pdh module (that 
>>access windows performance counters)?  For example, how to retreive the 
>>number of processes running on a win2k server, with  the 
>>Objects-Processes counter?
>>
>>Any ideas?
> 
> 
> There are a few examples installed with PyWin32 (or with ActivePython if
> you got PyWin32 that way):
>     ...\Lib\site-packages\win32\Lib:
>                 win32pdhquery.py
>                 win32pdhutil.py
> 
> 
> Trent
> 






From tristaina at wp.pl  Wed Jul  2 09:16:46 2003
From: tristaina at wp.pl (freone)
Date: 2 Jul 2003 06:16:46 -0700
Subject: Problems with io.
Message-ID: <8e35bad8.0307020516.55bb1ddc@posting.google.com>

Hello,
some time ago I started to learn python, today i wanted make a very
samll and simple program.
file = open("test.txt", "r+")
file.readlines()
file.close()
And it doesn't work...
Why?

(sorry for such ask but it is anonyoning me why it doesn't work, if u
don't reply i'll understand it)



From hwlgw at hotmail.com  Fri Jul  4 08:10:38 2003
From: hwlgw at hotmail.com (Will Stuyvesant)
Date: 4 Jul 2003 05:10:38 -0700
Subject: Help with xml.parsers.expat please?
Message-ID: <cb035744.0307040410.12003774@posting.google.com>

There seems to be no XML parser that can do validation in
the Python Standard Libraries.  And I am stuck with Python
2.1.1. until my web master upgrades (I use Python for
CGI).  I know pyXML has validating parsers, but I can not
compile things on the (unix) webserver.  And even if I
could, the compiler I have access to would be different
than what was used to compile python for CGI.

I need to write a CGI script that does XML validation (and
then later also does other things).  It does not have to
be complete standards compliant validation but at least it
should check if elements are declared and allowed in
special places in the XML tree.

I tried to understand SAX and DOM but I gave up, and
effbot advises to avoid them anyway.  So I am studying
xml.parsers.expat now, but I am stuck.  

The program below *does* print information about DOCTYPE
declarations but nothing about the element definitions in
the DTD.  I feed it an XML file with a DOCTYPE declaration
like <!DOCTYPE ROOTTAG SYSTEM "MYDTD.DTD"> and the DTD is
in the same directory.  I also tried inputting the DTD
itself to this program but that doesn't work either
(ExpatError: syntaxerror at the first element definition).

Please help if you can.  




# file: minimal_validate.py
#
import xml.parsers.expat

def element_decl_handler(name, model):
    print 'ELEMENT definition: ', name, ' model: ', model

def doctype_decl_handler(doctypeName, systemId, publicId, has_internal_subset):
    print 'DOCTYPE declaration: '
    print '    doctypeName: ', doctypeName
    print '    systemId: ', systemId
    print '    publicId:', publicId
    print '    internal subset:', has_internal_subset

p = xml.parsers.expat.ParserCreate()

p.ElementDeclHandler = element_decl_handler
p.StartDoctypeDeclHandler = doctype_decl_handler

import sys
input = file(sys.argv[1]).read()
p.Parse(input)



From zneptune321 at zexcite.zcom  Mon Jul 14 22:54:20 2003
From: zneptune321 at zexcite.zcom (Conrad)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 02:54:20 GMT
Subject: Sio serial module install problem with ActiveState
References: <pan.2003.07.14.21.40.42.609932@zexcite.zcom> <3F132FB3.CF0E6B44@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2003.07.15.02.56.25.188912@zexcite.zcom>

Years ago, Nostradamus predicted that on Mon, 14 Jul 2003 19:33:23 -0400,
Peter Hansen would write, saying:

> Conrad wrote:
>> 
>> Greetings,
>> 
>> I have a need to print from Win98SE to a little
>> serial label printer provided by United Parcel, so
>> based on Mark Hammond's recommendation in
>> 'Programming on Win32' I decided to try the Sio
>> module at http://starship.python.net/crew/roger/
>> 
>> My problem:
> 
> Solution to problem (of a sort): don't use SIO module,
> which relies on a third-party external DLL.  Instead,
> use http://pyserial.sourceforge.net/ or, if that doesn't work use 
> http://balder.prohosting.com/ibarona/en/python/uspp/uspp_en.html
> 
> -Peter

Thanks, Peter -

I'll give them a shot tomorrow. USPP made me a little
nervous, because frankly, it looks like it died a year
and a half ago, with outstanding Linux bugs (eventually,
my project will migrate to Linux), and a very conservative
0.1 version label, and pyserial seemed from it's docs 
to require jython - which means pulling in a whole slew 
of third-party DLLs for Java. I'll give USPP a try first, 
because it's closest in spirit to what I want in terms of 
cross-compatibility and lack of dependencies - and after 
reflection, the fact that it hasn't changed in a while 
may just indicate the fact that RS-232 hardware has been 
much more static lately than, say, video hardware.

Thanks again,

Conrad






From viffer750 at hotmail.com  Fri Jul 18 14:38:46 2003
From: viffer750 at hotmail.com (BDM)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 14:38:46 -0400
Subject: Calling python from asp
Message-ID: <3f17dc2c@cpns1.saic.com>

Greetings,
I'm having a difficult time calling a python module from within ASP.  I have
narrowed the problem down the very beginning of my code, where I'm
attempting to import a method.  Below is a snippet of the code

import sys
print 'Imported Sys'
from pscape.xml.handler import pscape_xml_parser
print  'Imported XML Parser'

The import sys statement works fine.  The import of pscape_xml_parser is
failing. pscape.xml.handler is within my site-packages directory.  I have
checked  python's sys.path from within ASP, and
c:\python22\lib\site-packages is in the path.  This code runs fine when
executed from within the python interpreter, but not when called from ASP.

Any idea what I'm doing wrong here?  I'm sure it must be something very
simple.  I'm running this under Windows2000 Server, IIS5.0, Python 2.2.2,
and win32all-150.

 -=BDM=-





From martin at v.loewis.de  Fri Jul 18 20:57:29 2003
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-15?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 19 Jul 2003 02:57:29 +0200
Subject: [OT] A challenge to the ASCII proponents.
References: <mailman.1058278343.23104.python-list@python.org> <bf167a$pvt$1@panix2.panix.com> <ufzl7rdno.fsf@online.no> <3F142A58.80426AA4@hotmail.com> <2259b0e2.0307161620.4a9353f1@posting.google.com> <Xns93BB246FDDBCFJanC@213.118.75.80> <3F168011.3AEB3EFC@hotmail.com> <3F172442.2040907@v.loewis.de> <slrnbhgfgt.3e2.rmunn@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <m3smp3l4ee.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Robin Munn <rmunn at pobox.com> writes:

> Running slrn version 0.9.7.4 on Linux. My terminal is a PuTTY SSH
> connection from a Windows box. slrn --version produces:

For this to work, you need to
a) explain slrn that your console uses UTF-8, and
b) tell PuTTY to use UTF-8 in the console.

Then, slrn should determine that all characters of the message are
supported.

I don't know how to do either a) or b) with PuTTY and slrn; for a),
setting LANG to en_US.UTF-8 might be sufficient.

Regards,
Martin




From bhards at bigpond.net.au  Tue Jul 22 08:19:43 2003
From: bhards at bigpond.net.au (Brad Hards)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 12:19:43 GMT
Subject: pythonic malloc
References: <OaOSa.6965$OM3.854@news-server.bigpond.net.au> <7g1xwjqujm.fsf@pikespeak.metacarta.com>
Message-ID: <zZ9Ta.8537$OM3.7230@news-server.bigpond.net.au>

eichin at metacarta.com wrote:

> 
>>>> import struct
>>>> struct.pack("<HH21s", 0xf0, 2, "rachel")
>
'\xf0\x00\x02\x00rachel\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00'
> 
> but it is, umm, "kind of perlish" - note also that the "21s" is
> basically "string of up to 21 chars, pad with NUL if we run out" which
> is probably what you wanted, but is saying it another way.
This is nice, because it also deals with the case where the hostname would
otherwise overflow. It also matches my mental model - this isn't really a
string, its really a fixed length binary structure. Note that I don't
really know what it is - I'm trying to figure out a proprietary network
protocol.

Now I just have a question about portability. Will this break on a
big-endian box? That is, does:
struct.pack("<HH", 0xf0, 0x02)
produce:
'\x00\xf0\x00\x02'?

Would I be better off using "BBBB 21s" or "L 21s" as the format?

Brad




From ageron at HOHOHOHOvideotron.ca  Wed Jul  2 05:54:57 2003
From: ageron at HOHOHOHOvideotron.ca (Aurélien Géron)
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 11:54:57 +0200
Subject: My Big Dict.
References: <mailman.1057119003.11991.python-list@python.org> <20030702073735.40293ba2.christophe.delord@free.fr> <TXvMa.9902$BM.3065756@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <bdua4i$18el$1@biggoron.nerim.net>

> "Christophe Delord" <christophe.delord at free.fr> wrote in message
> news:20030702073735.40293ba2.christophe.delord at free.fr...
> > Hello,
> >
> > On Wed, 2 Jul 2003 00:13:26 -0400, Xavier wrote:
> >
> > > Greetings,
> > >
> > > (do excuse the possibly comical subject text)
> > >
> > > I need advice on how I can convert a text db into a dict.  Here is an
> > > example of what I need done.
> > >
> > > some example data lines in the text db goes as follows:
> > >
> > > CODE1!DATA1 DATA2, DATA3
> > > CODE2!DATA1, DATA2 DATA3
> > >
> > > As you can see, the lines are dynamic and the data are not alike, they
> > > change in permission values (but that's obvious in any similar
> > > situation)
> > >
> > > Any idea on how I can convert 20,000+ lines of the above into the
> > > following protocol for use in my code?:
> > >
> > > TXTDB = {'CODE1': 'DATA1 DATA2, DATA3', 'CODE2': 'DATA1, DATA2 DATA3'}
> > >
> >
> > If your data is in a string you can use a regular expression to parse
> > each line, then the findall method returns a list of tuples containing
> > the key and the value of each item. Finally the dict class can turn this
> > list into a dict. For example:
>
> and you can kill a fly with a sledgehammer.  why not
>
> f = open('somefile.txt')
> d = {}
> l = f.readlines()
> for i in l:
>     a,b = i.split('!')
>     d[a] = b.strip()
>
> or am i missing something obvious? (b/t/w the above parsed 20000+ lines on
a
> celeron 500 in less than a second.)

Your code looks good Christophe.  Just two little things to be aware of:
1) if you use split like this, then each line must contain one and only one
'!', which means (in particular) that empy lines will bomb, and also data
must not contain any '!' or else you'll get an exception such as
"ValueError: unpack list of wrong size".   If your data may contain '!',
then consider slicing up each line in a different way.
2) if your file is really huge, then you may want to fill up your dictionary
as you're reading the file, instead of reading everything in a list and then
building your dictionary (hence using up twice the memory).

But apart from these details, I agree with Christophe that this is the way
to go.

Aur?lien





From bignose-hates-spam at and-benfinney-does-too.id.au  Thu Jul 31 01:23:49 2003
From: bignose-hates-spam at and-benfinney-does-too.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: 31 Jul 2003 15:13:49 +0950
Subject: keystroke check
References: <mailman.1059619004.15764.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrnbihb4l.vpm.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>

On Wed, 30 Jul 2003 19:34:58 -0700 (PDT), Wes Fraser wrote:
> Is there any way to check in a loop to see if at that given moment in
> the program, a key on the key board is being pressed without actually
> stopping like raw_ipnut does?

I don't have an answer, but what you're referring to is commonly termed
"blocking I/O", that is, the call to raw_input blocks the program until
it gets a result.  This may help you search for solutions.

-- 
 \     "What if the Hokey Pokey IS what it's all about?"  -- Anonymous |
  `\                                                                   |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney <http://bignose.squidly.org/>



From doug.hendricks at tnzi.com  Sun Jul 27 18:27:48 2003
From: doug.hendricks at tnzi.com (the_rev_dharma_roadkill)
Date: 27 Jul 2003 15:27:48 -0700
Subject: How to build/install DCOracle2 on tru64 5.1
Message-ID: <fb91dbec.0307271427.3e184e2@posting.google.com>

I've have some fun getting DCOracle2 (python-to-oracle interface)
going on HP/Compaq Tru64 with Oracle8i Release 3 (oracle 8.1.7).  I'd
like to share an answer/bug-fix with you:

After un-tarring the source...
1) edit setup.py.  Change the lines:
CFLAGS = ["-fPIC","-DORACLE8i"]
LFLAGS = ["-Wl,-rpath,%s" % string.join(LIB_DIR,",")]

LIBS=['clntsh']

TO READ INSTEAD:
CFLAGS = ["-DORACLE8i"]
LFLAGS = None

LIBS=['clntsh','ocijdbc8']

2) Now run python setup.py build
3) Now, as root (or whatever), run python setup.py install
4) When you test, DO NOT sit in any directory that contains a
"DCOracle2" sub-directory!  Get away from the build area and its
parent!

This works for me.  The usual technique produces a broken dco2.so,
which cannot resolve "OCILobIsTemporary", due to some brain-damage in
the Oracle8i libraries.  The trick of using ocijdbc8 came from
somebody else on the web whose name I now cannot recall, I apologize
to whoever is was.

Best of Luck Tru64 people!
Doug



From cliechti at gmx.net  Tue Jul 15 09:35:34 2003
From: cliechti at gmx.net (Chris Liechti)
Date: 15 Jul 2003 15:35:34 +0200
Subject: Sio serial module install problem with ActiveState
References: <pan.2003.07.14.21.40.42.609932@zexcite.zcom> <3F132FB3.CF0E6B44@engcorp.com> <pan.2003.07.15.02.56.25.188912@zexcite.zcom> <3F13703C.C12392D6@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <Xns93B99EA18BC57cliechtigmxnet@62.2.16.82>

Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in 
news:3F13703C.C12392D6 at engcorp.com:

> Conrad wrote:
>> pyserial seemed from it's docs
>> to require jython - which means pulling in a whole slew
>> of third-party DLLs for Java. 
> 
> No!  Try PySerial first, for sure.  It does NOT require
> Jython, but does support it.  As the home page says,

thanks for defending pyserial :-)
what you're saying is of course correct.

> "It provides backends for stadard (sic) Python running 
> on Windows, Linux, BSD (possibly any POSIX compilant system) 
> and Jython.  The module named "serial" automaticaly (sic) 
> selects the appropriate backed (sic)."
> 
> (Chris, if you'd like, I'll happily proofread that page
> and correct a few spelling errors for you. ;-)

ok thanks, i fixed those and a few other details.

chris
-- 
Chris <cliechti at gmx.net>




From johnroth at ameritech.net  Thu Jul  3 10:20:03 2003
From: johnroth at ameritech.net (John Roth)
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 10:20:03 -0400
Subject: function overloading
References: <pan.2003.07.01.19.42.06.202399@webone.com.au> <vg3q64c9e01h13@news.supernews.com> <pan.2003.07.02.02.46.56.650131@webone.com.au>
Message-ID: <vg8eqeq7b9q730@news.supernews.com>

"Simon Burton" <simonb at webone.com.au> wrote in message
news:pan.2003.07.02.02.46.56.650131 at webone.com.au...
>
> Yes, it's a good idea; and that's how i started; i just can't remember
all the different names.
> Lazy init is a good idea too... But it adds a level to the class
> invariant.

Well, the only thing I can suggest for that is what I was told for
organizaing my filing system: call it what you're going to look for
it under.

John Roth





From kevin at cazabon.com  Tue Jul 22 20:41:51 2003
From: kevin at cazabon.com (Kevin Cazabon)
Date: 22 Jul 2003 17:41:51 -0700
Subject: py2exe command line window problem
References: <1ee79758.0307220827.78f8571@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <5a4226f0.0307221641.49c96703@posting.google.com>

instead of using "python setup.py py2exe" try "pythonw setup.py
py2exe" from your application.

Pythonw won't spawn a DOS box (pythonw.exe should be in the same
directory as python.exe with most standard python installs on Windows)

Kevin.


prashsingh at yahoo.com (Prashant Singh) wrote in message news:<1ee79758.0307220827.78f8571 at posting.google.com>...
> I'm using py2exe to create a standalone executable from a Python
> script, and I would like the script to run invisibly, i.e. without a
> console window and without any interactive GUI. The script is a helper
> app, which simply downloads and runs some other program.
> 
> I've tried passing the -w flag to the script, and I've also tried
> renaming it with a .pyw extension, but when the executable is run an
> empty console window opens with the title "C:\WINNT\system32\cmd.exe".
> I've checked, and there are no print statements, which might cause
> py2exe to assume it's still a console app.
> 
> Is there something I'm missing?
> 
> Thanks,
> prashant.



From dkuhlman at rexx.com  Fri Jul 18 20:22:53 2003
From: dkuhlman at rexx.com (Dave Kuhlman)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 17:22:53 -0700
Subject: (mini-)ANN: Document for Python LaTeX setup
Message-ID: <bfa30t$ctqne$2@ID-139865.news.uni-berlin.de>

I've written a document about how to set yourself up for
processing documents with the Python LaTeX documentation system
and also for  reStructuredText-to-Python-LaTeX translation.
You can find it here:

    http://www.rexx.com/~dkuhlman/#pythonlatexsetup
    http://www.rexx.com/~dkuhlman/pythonlatexsetup.html
    http://www.rexx.com/~dkuhlman/pythonlatexsetup.zip

The Python LaTeX "Documenting Python" system is great.  Thanks to
Fred Drake and others who worked on it.

Comments are welcome.

  - Dave

-- 
Dave Kuhlman
http://www.rexx.com/~dkuhlman
dkuhlman at rexx.com



From alanmk at hotmail.com  Fri Jul 11 11:42:42 2003
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 16:42:42 +0100
Subject: Windows XP - Environment variable - Unicode
References: <3f0ed1ba@epflnews.epfl.ch>
Message-ID: <3F0EDAF2.E2DF7BAD@hotmail.com>

"sebastien.hugues" wrote:

> Actually the issue is that this variable is
> set by the system itself. It is not accessible from the control panel.
> In the other hand, i don't use any terminal.
> 
> So the question is how to get the default encoding of the system ?
> I was looking for a while in win32api documentation, msdn and
> Google but i didn't get nothing.

This page from MSDN explains about how locales are handled for
different users.

http://msdn.microsoft.com/msdnnews/2001/july/Spotlight/Spotlight.asp

Quoting: (for the archives, since MS are guaranteed to make the above
link break sometime)

"""
The System Default Locale

The system default locale acts as an ANSI simulation layer. It
determines the ANSI code page that the system uses when running a
non-Unicode application. For example, if the system default locale is
Japanese, then to a non-Unicode application the operating system will
behave similarly to a Japanese operating system, fully able to support
non-Unicode Japanese applications, but unable to support
non-Japanese-compatible applications (such as a Korean non-Unicode
app). The operating system uses the Japanese code page 932 when
ANSI-Unicode translation is needed. So, the system default locale
determines whether or not your non-Unicode application will run.

The system default locale is set at installation, but can be changed
in the Control Panel. To get the current system default locale, call
the GetSystemDefaultLCID function.

The User Locale and the Thread Locale 

The user locale and the thread locale determine which settings are
used for formatting dates, times, currency, and large numbers as a
default for each user. The user locale and the thread locale also
determine the sort order for sorting text. The thread locale can be
set separately for each thread. When the thread locale and the user
locale are different, the thread locale overrides the user locale.
For example, even though your app is English and the system default
locale is English, as long as the user locale is Spanish (and you did
not set the thread locale specifically), your strings will be sorted
by the Spanish sorting order. If you need your app's numbers,
currency, or sorting to be done in a certain locale, make sure that
you set the thread locale explicitly by calling the SetThreadLocale
function.
When each thread starts, the thread locale defaults to the user
locale. The user locale defaults to the locale that matches the
language of the localized system. To get the user locale, call the
GetUserDefaultLCID function. Call the GetThreadLocale function to get
the calling thread locale.
"""

I'm not sure if the env var you're looking at is set in the system or
user default locale, so probably best to try both:-

systemdefaultlcid = win32api.GetSystemDefaultLCID()
userdefaultlcid = win32api.GetUserDefaultLCID()

http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Python/Reference/Products/ActivePython/PythonWin32Extensions/win32api__GetUserDefaultLangID_meth.html

Now, as for how to turn an LCID into a character set name, I don't
know the answer to that one :-(

Here's a q&d hack for getting the user default character set, through
an internet explorer COM object. 

from win32com.client import Dispatch
htmldoc = Dispatch("htmlfile")
htmldoc.writeln("<h1>any old stuff</h1>")
print htmldoc.defaultCharset

HTH,

-- 
alan kennedy
-----------------------------------------------------
check http headers here: http://xhaus.com/headers
email alan:              http://xhaus.com/mailto/alan



From schull at digitalgoods.com  Mon Jul 14 15:03:47 2003
From: schull at digitalgoods.com (Jon Schull)
Date: 14 Jul 2003 12:03:47 -0700
Subject: Securing PyDoc and CGIHTTPserver
References: <2621b014.0307100535.449ad06f@posting.google.com> <3F0D7887.9D069ED0@engcorp.com> <xqx3chexplh.fsf@cola2.ca.boeing.com> <3F0E136A.6222F201@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <2621b014.0307140819.6ec99736@posting.google.com>

Well, for what its worth, I was thinking about "sniffing, spoofing, or
main-in-the-middle attacks", and I was hoping for something I could
stick into a program for unsophisticated users (e.g, those to whom one
might give a notepad-like application, albeit with a local webserver
interface).

Everyone who connects to the internet should have a firewall BUT must
all who import httpserver implement or insist on a firewall for all
their users?  Realistically?  I don't want to think so.

 
> Uh, yeah.... but the OP wasn't asking about sniffing, spoofing, or
> main-in-the-middle attacks, near as I can tell, nor about using 
> encryption.  He was suggesting an unusual modification to one or
> more applications which would otherwise be decoupled from security,
> by adding into them features which are better handled by firewalls.
> 

> "Security through Obscurity" (e.g., random ports) is not the way to
> go.  Instead, use SSL.  This can be done through a CGI on Apache
> through an SSL'd port, or it can be done with stunnel.  [Or it might
> even be done with raw python using pyOpenSSL or M2Crypto (which I
> haven't done, so I can't tell you anything that direction).]



From rastm2 at aol.commorespam  Sun Jul 20 13:53:29 2003
From: rastm2 at aol.commorespam (Raymond Arthur St. Marie II of III )
Date: 20 Jul 2003 17:53:29 GMT
Subject: Stopping a loop with user input. in curses
References: <pan.2003.07.19.21.26.34.776055@antispam.com>
Message-ID: <20030720135329.18124.00000260@mb-m15.aol.com>

Hey Alex, 
I wrote a detailed explanation earlier today and it seams to have disappeared.
That's okay, because I had really beat up your code.

You know, it didn't occure to me till hours later that all you really had to do
is move the second while loop into the "theClock()" definition like this. 

I move the second while loop into the "theClock()" function so that it handles
the key press. Then consolodated the while loops into one loop.
If the finished variable is 0(zero) then the loop continues else it breaks the
loop and the function has no where else to go but out.

The problem with your original code is that the call to "theClock()" function
never sees the 'q' key press because the second while loop never gets executed
while the first while loop is forever executing.

I don't have curses installed so I can't test this for you,  but it should
work.

# Import curses module

import curses, time
stdscr = curses.initscr()

def theClock():
	
    # Define global colour scheme
    curses.init_pair(1, curses.COLOR_WHITE, curses.COLOR_BLUE)
	
    # Get the screen size
    max_y, max_x = stdscr.getmaxyx()
	
    # Calculate the clock position relative to the screen size
    clock_x = max_x - 28 
	
    # Draw the clock
    clockWindow = curses.newwin(3, 26, 1, clock_x)
    clockWindow.bkgd(' ', curses.color_pair(1))
    clockWindow.box()
    clockWindow.refresh()

    # If 'q' is pressed, exit
    finished = 0     
    while not finished:    # finished = 0 until the 'q' key is pressed
    c = stdscr.getch()
    if c == ord('q'):
        curses.beep()
        finished = 1
        break
    
    t = time.asctime()
    clockWindow.addstr(1, 1, t)
    clockWindow.refresh()
    time.sleep(1)


def main(stdscr):

    # Bring up the clock function

    theClock()

if __name__ == '__main__':
    curses.wrapper(main)

Ray--



From clpy.NOSPAM at russellsalsbury.com  Mon Jul 14 18:18:09 2003
From: clpy.NOSPAM at russellsalsbury.com (Russ Salsbury)
Date: 14 Jul 2003 15:18:09 -0700
Subject: The ASPN compiler
References: <u8gugvovob6k3jou2oi4olsr6mp1fbqlqn@4ax.com> <mailman.1057969337.5637.python-list@python.org> <c9d82136.0307120941.63540143@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <4868482a.0307141418.a45699e@posting.google.com>

noah at noah.org (Noah) wrote in message news:<c9d82136.0307120941.63540143 at posting.google.com>...
> Gerhard H?ring <gh at ghaering.de> wrote in message news:<mailman.1057969337.5637.python-list at python.org>...
> > Fuzzyman wrote:
> > > What's the score on this (the ASPN python compiler) 
> > Read the whitepaper, available on the ActiveState site.
> > ...
> > -- Gerhard
> 
> The short answer is that it looks like a dead project.
> 
> Actually, you are better off going to Mark Hammond's .NET page here:
>     http://starship.python.net/crew/mhammond/dotnet/

Well, folks, I actually went off and read the paper.  In spite of the
declaration of success at the end of the paper, the project appears to
have been just an academic proof of principle exercise.  The compiler
is too slow to be of practical use and not much of the much of the
runtime and modules were implemented.  You should read it; it doesn't
look like it could have ever succeded.

The paper suggests that a way around the mismatch between the dynamic
typing of Python and the static typing of .NET would have been to
introduce advisory type declarations into Python.  Think Guido would
buy that?  It also suggested maybe type inferences could solve the
problem.

>From this paper it's evident that this was not a class effort like
Jython.  Was Active State suckered by some marketing ploy of
MicroSoft?  To be fair maybe they all expected a follow-on project to
do a real implementation, but I bet it's all part of VB-forever.

I also noted there is a dead-in-the-water Perl.NET implementation.

-- Russ



From pedro.werneck at bol.com.br  Fri Jul 18 09:47:07 2003
From: pedro.werneck at bol.com.br (Pedro Werneck)
Date: 18 Jul 2003 06:47:07 -0700
Subject: dumping command-history in python interactive mode
References: <mailman.1058479887.12228.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ef72fb2b.0307180547.67b8afd9@posting.google.com>

Take a look here

http://www.python.org/doc/tut/node13.html

Christoph Becker-Freyseng <christoph at mmc-startup.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.1058479887.12228.python-list at python.org>...
> Hello,
> 
> is there a way to dump (and save) the command-history of the python 
> interactive mode.
> 
> Thanks,
>    Christoph Becker-Freyseng



From shane at zope.com  Tue Jul  8 12:48:23 2003
From: shane at zope.com (Shane Hathaway)
Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 12:48:23 -0400
Subject: __eq__ and __ne__
In-Reply-To: <1057681289.2342.34.camel@slothrop.zope.com>
References: <BIEJKCLHCIOIHAGOKOLHAEFCGDAA.tim@zope.com>	 <3F0AEC76.8080304@zope.com> <1057681289.2342.34.camel@slothrop.zope.com>
Message-ID: <3F0AF5D7.5030703@zope.com>

Jeremy Hylton wrote:
> On Tue, 2003-07-08 at 12:08, Shane Hathaway wrote:
> 
>>Tim Peters wrote:
>>
>>>Since the richcmp operators aren't constrained to return scalars, an attempt
>>>to define one in terms of the others seemed futile.  Instead they're 6
>>>independent methods.
>>
>>Ok.  Thanks for finding the docs.  I guess I'll stick to my boilerplate 
>>code.  I think some guidance should be added to the Python docs, though, 
>>explaining that whenever you define __eq__, you very likely ought to 
>>define __ne__ also.
> 
> I believe C++ has the same behavior when you overload logical
> operators.  So at least people familiar with the same behavior in other
> languages won't be surprised.

Actually, C++ generates a compiler error if you try to do that.  (See 
the attached program.)  Java doesn't run into this because it has a 
simpler interface: the only operator you can override is equals().  So 
in this case, C++ is fully explicit and Java is fully implicit, while 
Python makes a guess.  If we can't make it implicit like Java, then it 
seems preferable for Python to raise an exception, similar to C++, when 
you use the != operator with an instance that implements __eq__ but not 
__ne__.

Shane
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From ianb at colorstudy.com  Wed Jul 16 16:58:39 2003
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: 16 Jul 2003 15:58:39 -0500
Subject: Choosing the right framework
In-Reply-To: <BHEFKIOIMEDGILGDACKDMEIBDMAA.carsten@sarum.dk>
References: <BHEFKIOIMEDGILGDACKDMEIBDMAA.carsten@sarum.dk>
Message-ID: <1058389119.19238.638.camel@lothlorien>

On Wed, 2003-07-16 at 07:54, Carsten Gehling wrote:
> Oh how often this subject may come up...
> 
> The thing is, I've come to the decision of abandoning PHP as much as
> possible (old projects still remain...), and use Python for all purposes.
> Reason: One language to fit it all (instead of having one language for
> webprogramming, one for batches, etc...)
> 
> I stand now at the point where I must choose a framework for my web
> application development. I've skimmed a few: mod_python, pso and Zope.
> However, I cannot decide on which to choose.
> 
> I've read descriptions and comments on
> http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/moinmoin/WebProgramming to get other's
> opinions. The user comments are sparse though, so I've decided to ask here.
> 
> I like the ideas behind Zope. For instance the "long running process"
> feature that improve performance and retain scripts between requests, among
> other things. I do not, however, like the design of the management
> interface, it would not appeal to my customers. I'm not yet knowledgable
> enough about Zope, to know if this can be changed. Anyone who can elaborate?
> (MaxM don't answer "Plone"... ;-)

Webware and SkunkWeb both also use long running processes, and it's an
option with Quixote (which can be run in a variety of environments).

> pso looks like the framework that is easiest to deploy. If run under
> mod_python, it also retains scripts in memory, but does it allow for the
> aforementioned application variables? And does the performance match up
> compared to mod_python and Zope?

Anything not CGI-based is likely to be faster than Zope.

> What is your preferred framework? And why?

I use Webware (when I can).  It's fairly light, when I was first looking
around it was one of the few things outside of Zope that was fully
developed.  I didn't (and still don't) like Zope -- if you like Python,
you will be disappointed when you realize you don't get to use it much
in Zope, or when you do it's a crippled or complicated Python.  [To
Zope's credit, they are trying to improve this in Zope 3]

Some other options I might recommend looking at would be SkunkWeb and
Quixote, which are also fairly mature.

  Ian






From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Mon Jul 14 10:26:36 2003
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 14 Jul 2003 10:26:36 -0400
Subject: anything like C++ references?
References: <000301c348c7$3c501980$21795418@dell1700> <sag3hv4vf884ed7ouu5cv8ofnopp9j1t12@4ax.com> <bet1sd$ibl$1@panix3.panix.com> <sfa4hvkq1j7rg1iga5j3tk2cc4qpr6e5qk@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <beueis$b1d$1@panix3.panix.com>

In article <sfa4hvkq1j7rg1iga5j3tk2cc4qpr6e5qk at 4ax.com>,
Stephen Horne  <intentionally at blank.co.uk> wrote:
>On 13 Jul 2003 21:43:41 -0400, aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) wrote:
>>In article <sag3hv4vf884ed7ouu5cv8ofnopp9j1t12 at 4ax.com>,
>>Stephen Horne  <intentionally at blank.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>In computer science, a variable is a named binding to a value.
>>>Operations on that variable may rebind it to a different value, but
>>>values don't change behind your back. A pointer is, in effect, a value
>>>which indirectly refers to another (possibly anonymous) variable. A
>>>pointer is something you specifically request, and by doing so you
>>>allow that the 'variable' being indirectly referenced may be modified
>>>by something else that has no direct access to your pointer value (via
>>>your named variable or via copys or pointers-to your pointer held
>>>elsewhere).
>>>
>>>Python should respect that.
>>
>>That's why I (and others) prefer to use "name" and "target" instead of
>>"variable".  Would that assuage your ire?
>
>Not really, for reasons defined elsewhere. The problem isn't
>theoretical - it is practical, as shown by the fact that people do
>trip over it time and time again. I'm just saying that the problem
>arises out of peoples intuition of how variables should work - an
>intuition that matches very well with theory.

People trip over pointers, too, even when they're explicit.  Heck,
people have problem with the simple

    a = a + 1

no matter *what* programming language is used if they can't get past
their high school algebra and understand that "=" is a *command* in this
context.  The question is not whether newcomers get tripped up, but the
extent to which the language can be easily defined in a consistent and
rigorous manner.  Python passes that test quite handily, IMO.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"Not everything in life has a clue in front of it...."  --JMS



From ianb at colorstudy.com  Fri Jul  4 02:29:46 2003
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: 04 Jul 2003 01:29:46 -0500
Subject: File information??
In-Reply-To: <OI8Na.58613$TJ.2869886@twister.austin.rr.com>
References: <OI8Na.58613$TJ.2869886@twister.austin.rr.com>
Message-ID: <1057300186.13136.33.camel@lothlorien>

On Fri, 2003-07-04 at 00:59, Stan Cook wrote:
> Is there a way to get the file size and modified date of a file?

os.stat(filename).st_size and os.stat(filename).st_mtime

  Ian






From edavid at intnet.mu  Wed Jul 23 10:53:59 2003
From: edavid at intnet.mu (David Hitillambeau)
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 18:53:59 +0400
Subject: The global statement
Message-ID: <pan.2003.07.23.08.06.17.301516@intnet.mu>

Hi guys,
As I am new to Python, i was wondering how to declare and use global
variables. Suppose i have the following structure in the same module (same
file):

def foo:
  <instructions>
  <instructions>
def bar:
  <instructions>
  <instructions>

I want to enable some sharing between the two functions (foo and bar)
using one global variable in such a way that each function can have read
and write access over it.

How can i manage this please?

I've read about "The global statement" in python's documentation and still
can't figure out it's use.

Thanks.
--
David.H



From khalid.sheikh at silvaco.com  Wed Jul 23 17:07:49 2003
From: khalid.sheikh at silvaco.com (Khalid Sheikh)
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 14:07:49 -0700
Subject: Trying to contact Lee Harr <missive@frontiernet.net>
Message-ID: <PDECKCFLILIOFDMCOOMNGEMGCCAA.khalid.sheikh@silvaco.com>

Hi Lee,

Not sure why my email got bounced. If you read this please reply back so I
can send you the appropriate documentation so I can get your help in finding
out what's in the spider.Collection[i] name space.

Thanks.

-----Original Message-----
From: MAILER-DAEMON at mx02.roc.ny.frontiernet.net
[mailto:MAILER-DAEMON at mx02.roc.ny.frontiernet.net]
Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 1:57 PM
To: khalid.sheikh at silvaco.com
Subject: failure notice


Hi. This is the qmail-send program at mx02.roc.ny.frontiernet.net.
I'm afraid I wasn't able to deliver your message to the following addresses.
This is a permanent error; I've given up. Sorry it didn't work out.

<missive at frontiernet.net>:
maildrop: This user's mailbox is full.

--- Below this line is a copy of the message.

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To: <missive at frontiernet.net>
Subject: Re: Newbie question about strings
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Hi Lee,

Thank you for all your help. Sorry for the late response to your answer. I
am not used to the python list and wasn't aware of such volume of posts that
are generated on this emailing. List. To answer one of your question, no I
am not familiar with Python, like I mentioned in my email I have been tasked
to integrate verity enterprise search with our J2EE compliant app server. I
am trying to pick up python but I still haven't caught up yet. I haven't
been able to find a good reference book that deals with html embedded
python. most books talk about generating html through python. Can you
recommend a good book for that purpose. The book I picked up is titled Core
Python Programming by Wesley Chow.

I am not sure if any API calls are being made. I am including the html doc
for your reference

In article <mailman.1058831613.12207.python-list at python.org> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I have been tasked to Integrate Inktomi Search (now Verity of course)
> with our website. I am fairly new to Python. The way the search
> engine is setup is that it has embedded python in a html document.
> After looking at the html code for a day or so, I was able to pin
> point the place where I need to make a change but I am having a hard
> time.
>
> I am assuming
>
> &$self.text(dbcol[docdb].pretty_name);
>
> prints something in HTML but I am trying to figure out it's
> equivalent
> in Python. I am assuming this is a string and I need to check it's
> value against another string say 'XXY' if it is equal then go ahead
> and print that value otherwise skip to the next item in the
> list/array.
>
>
> This is what I had before and it worked
>
><!--$
> first = 1
> for docdb in docdbs:
> if not dbcol.has_key(docdb): continue
> if first: first = 0; --> <!--$
> else: -->, <!--$
> -->Test< &$self.text(dbcol[docdb].pretty_name); >Test<!--$
> if not first: -->
>
> when run this prints
>
> Test< XXY >Test, Test< ABCD >Test
>
> I want it to print only when the string is equal to XXY. otherwise
> skip to the next string. This is the edited code that I have so far.
>
>
><!--$
> first = 1
> for docdb in docdbs:
> if not dbcol.has_key(docdb): continue
> if first: first = 0; --> <!--$
> else: -->, <!--$
> # my code
> if dbcol[docdb] == <spider.Collection 'pc'> --> <!--$
> # end of my code


if dbcol[docdb] == spider.Collection('pc'): do_something();


I am not sure if spider is going to be found though,
I would need to see the API documentation to know
what is available in the namespace.  It looks, though
as if your code would need to be valid python.



> -->Test< &$self.text(dbcol[docdb].pretty_name); >Test<!--$
> if not first: -->
>
>
> I get the following error when I run the program.
>
> exceptions.SyntaxError: invalid syntax (line 86)
> Line 86
> if dbcol[docdb] == <spider.Collection 'pc'> wlines.append(u' ');
>
> Any help would be greatly appreciated.
>


Do you know python?  It might be a good start to go through
the python tutorial...

http://python.org/doc/current/tut/tut.html

--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

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Content-Type: text/html;
	name="onehit1.html"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Disposition: attachment;
	filename="onehit1.html"

<!--$#-*- mode: python; indent-tabs-mode: nil; encoding: iso-8859-1 -*-=0A=
# Copyright 2000-2002 Inktomi Corporation.  All rights reserved.=0A=
=0A=
if not title: title =3D brkurl(url,60,la)=0A=
=0A=
width1 =3D 40*score/100=0A=
width2 =3D 40-width1=0A=
fshref =3D =
fsprfx+'&ws=3D0'+'&fs=3D'+urlquote(url)+'&qt=3D&ql=3D'+ql+'&st=3D1&nh=3D'=
+str(nh)+'&lk=3D'+lk=0A=
=0A=
if first_hit: =0A=
    passages =3D 0=0A=
    first_hit =3D 0=0A=
    dbcol =3D {}=0A=
    if len(cols)>1 and len(qcols)>1:=0A=
        for c in cols:=0A=
            if not c in qcols: continue=0A=
            if c.passage_summaries: passages =3D 1=0A=
            qdbs,idbs =3D c.dbs=0A=
            for db in qdbs: dbcol[db.dbid] =3D c=0A=
            for db in idbs: dbcol[db.dbid] =3D c=0A=
    elif len(cols)=3D=3D1:=0A=
        passages =3D cols[0].passage_summaries=0A=
    passages =3D passages and enable_passages=0A=
elif (print_line) and (ct is None or qti): =0A=
    --><hr size=3D1 width=3D"&$pw;" align=3Dleft><!--$=0A=
else: =0A=
    --><p>=0A=
<!--$=0A=
title =3D htmlquote(title)=0A=
=0A=
description =3D =
passage.smart_abstract(description,title,terms,la,ndocs,passages)=0A=
description =3D htmlquote(description)=0A=
if config.language_term_highlighting(la) and oqqtex and not fs: =0A=
    title =3D collectn.highlight(=0A=
        None,title,terms,la,u'title:',=0A=
        u'<font size=3D"+1" class=3Dhighlight>',u'</font>')=0A=
    description =3D collectn.highlight(=0A=
        None,description,terms,la,u'description:',=0A=
        u'<b class=3Dhighlight>',u'</b>')=0A=
=0A=
pass_sep =3D u' <b>...</b> '=0A=
description =3D =
string.join(string.split(description,passage.separator),pass_sep)=0A=
-->=0A=
=0A=
<table cellspacing=3D0 cellpadding=3D1 width=3D"&$pw;">=0A=
<tr valign=3Dtop>=0A=
<td width=3D"95%">=0A=
<!--$=0A=
if ct is not None and not qti:=0A=
    topic_dict =3D topic.current.urls.get(string.lower(url))=0A=
    if topic_dict is not None:=0A=
        if topic_dict.has_key(ct):=0A=
            stars =3D topic_dict[ct]=0A=
            for i in range(0,stars):=0A=
                --><img alt=3D"star" width=3D10 height=3D10 =
src=3D"/images/star.gif"><!--$=0A=
if url[:5] =3D=3D 'file:': linkurl =3D urllib.unquote(url)=0A=
else: linkurl =3D url=0A=
-->
=0A=
<b class=3Dtitle><a href=3D"&$linkurl;"> Title =
<!--$write(title);--></a></b><br>=0A=
<span class=3Ddescription> Description =
<!--$write(description);--></span><br>=0A=
<!--$=0A=
if config.inline_topics_fullpath:=0A=
    for id in topics:=0A=
        --><font size=3D"-1" =
class=3Dinlinetopic><b>&$self.text(u'Topic');:  </b><a =
href=3D"&$topicprfx;&amp;ct=3D&$id;"><!--$=0A=
        write(reports.topic_path(id,ht));--></a>=0A=
<!--$        =0A=
        --></font><br><!--$=0A=
-->

<!--$

# Khalid's Code

first =3D 1
for docdb in docdbs:
    if not dbcol.has_key(docdb): continue
    if first: first =3D 0; --> <!--$
    else: -->, <!--$
	# Need to add logic here=20
	# looking for a key word here.
	# the array has two items 'pc' and 'silvaco'
	# Need to check against 'pc' so that
	#=20
	# if array[i] =3D=3D 'pc'
	# then print something
	# else do nothing.
	if dbcol[docdb] =3D=3D 'pc':
		-->Test< &$self.text(dbcol[docdb].pretty_name); >Test<!--$
	else: --> <!--$
    if not first: -->

<!--
	# End of Khalid's changes
-->
=0A=
<font size=3D"-1" class=3Dpublisher><i>&$publisher;</i></font>=0A=
<font size=3D"-1" class=3Durl><i>&$brkurl(url,70); -</i></font>=0A=
<font size=3D"-1" class=3Dsize><i>&$"%.1f"%(size/1024.0);KB</i></font>=0A=

<!--$=0A=
if ws:=0A=
    first =3D 1=0A=
    for term,scor in dterms:=0A=
        if first: first =3D 0; --><font size=3D"-1" =
class=3Dwordscores><i> <!--$=0A=
        else: -->, <!--$=0A=
        -->&$term;: &$max(int(scor+0.5),1);<!--$=0A=
    if not first: --></i></font>=0A=
<!--$=0A=
if extra:=0A=
    --><table cellspacing=3D1 cellpadding=3D0 border=3D0>=0A=
<!--$=0A=
    extralist =3D extra.items()=0A=
    extralist.sort()=0A=
    for key,val in extralist:=0A=
        --><tr valign=3Dbaseline>=0A=
<!--$=0A=
        --><td width=3D"10%"><font size=3D"-1" =
class=3Dextra><i>&$key;</i></font></td>=0A=
<!--$=0A=
        --><td width=3D"90%"><font size=3D"-1" =
class=3Dextra><i>&$val;</i></font></td>=0A=
<!--$=0A=
        --></tr>=0A=
<!--$=0A=
    --></table>=0A=
</td>=0A=
<td width=3D"5%">=0A=
<table cellspacing=3D0 cellpadding=3D0 width=3D80>=0A=
<!--$=0A=
if ct is None or qti:=0A=
    --><tr><td><span class=3Dscore><!--$=0A=
    -->&$score;%</td></tr><tr><td><span class=3Dbar><!--$=0A=
    if width2>0:=0A=
        --><font size=3D-2 color=3D"#0000D0" class=3Dleftbar><!--$=0A=
        for wide in range(width1/2):=0A=
            write('|')=0A=
        --></font><!--$=0A=
    if width1>0:=0A=
        --><font size=3D-2 color=3D"#C0C0C0" class=3Drightbar><!--$=0A=
        for wide in range(width2/2):=0A=
            write('|')=0A=
        --></font><!--$=0A=
    --></span></span></td></tr>=0A=
<!--$=0A=
if modtime:=0A=
    --><tr><td><span class=3Ddate><!--$=0A=
    try: localtime =3D time.localtime(modtime)=0A=
    except: pass=0A=
    else: write(string.replace(htmlquote(time.strftime(self.text(u'%d %b =
%y'),localtime)),u' ',u'&nbsp;'))=0A=
    --></span></td></tr>=0A=
<!--$=0A=
if iterms:=0A=
    --><tr><td><font size=3D"-1" class=3Dfs><!--$=0A=
    --><a href=3D"&$fshref;">&$self.text(u'Find Similar');</a><!--$=0A=
    --></font></td></tr>=0A=
<!--$=0A=
for matcher,val in config.compiled_result_icon_alist:=0A=
    if not matcher(url): continue=0A=
    isrc,iwidth,iheight,ihref =3D val=0A=
    --><tr><td><!--$=0A=
    if ihref: --><a href=3D"&$ihref;"><!--$=0A=
    --><img alt=3D"" src=3D"&$isrc;" width=3D&$iwidth; =
height=3D&$iheight; border=3D0 align=3Dleft><!--$=0A=
    if ihref: --></a><!--$=0A=
    --></td></tr>=0A=
<!--$=0A=
    break=0A=
--></table>=0A=
</td>=0A=
</tr>=0A=
</table>=0A=

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From http  Wed Jul 30 07:21:09 2003
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 30 Jul 2003 04:21:09 -0700
Subject: Bottleneck: easy obscurity "encryption" via xor
References: <p6rdivscomvoraihqmac4piut7uqcpdvj1@4ax.com> <7xwue0pzcl.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <1d45gb.cjp.ln@217.11.196.167>
Message-ID: <7xn0ew1cre.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Tino Lange <tl_news at nexgo.de> writes:
> And it seems that Bengt's reciepe is the fastest. For very small strings
> (<255 chars) the method irmen2 should be the best choice - it doesn' have
> to pre-create the translation-table and does everything on-the-fly.

You should be able to use the array module to do the xor's 4 bytes at
a time and get a speedup over the 1-byte version.  The
string.translate version is the fastest, of course, but depends on
using the same translation table for every char in the string.

If you want to encrypt in python, try the p2.py that I posted; it's
been carefully designed with good algorithms and fairly well optimized
and should give much better security than some roll-your-own method.



From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Mon Jul 28 22:25:17 2003
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 28 Jul 2003 22:25:17 -0400
Subject: Unfortunate exception on dict item assignment (and why aren't slices hashable?)
References: <mailman.1058752171.10243.python-list@python.org> <slrnbhmjh2.si4.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local> <mailman.1058757391.658.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bg4lud$auo$1@panix3.panix.com>

In article <mailman.1058757391.658.python-list at python.org>,
Jeff Epler  <jepler at unpythonic.net> wrote:
>
>I don't see what's problematic about letting slices be hashable: they
>don't appear to be mutable, for instance.
>>>> s.start
>0
>>>> s.start = -1
>TypeError: readonly attribute
>... it may merely be an oversight.  Hashing them as
>    hash((s.start,s.stop,s.step))
>might be a reasonable definition.

Makes sense to me.  Feel free to submit a patch to SF.  ;-)
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

This is Python.  We don't care much about theory, except where it intersects 
with useful practice.  --Aahz



From gregadelliot at hotmail.com  Thu Jul 17 11:11:46 2003
From: gregadelliot at hotmail.com (jeff)
Date: 17 Jul 2003 08:11:46 -0700
Subject: html tags and webpages
Message-ID: <cdac0350.0307170711.43103d33@posting.google.com>

Hiya,

I had a go at this in perl and to be fairly honest perl scared me, i
didnt like the language one bit, ive used python before and find it a
"clean" language to use.

Basically what i want to do is create a script in python that will
look at a website and pull off a certain type of html tag and anything
contained within them tags,

I did this in perl but would like to do it in python, in perl i had to
use a module would i need to do this sort of think in python??

any help greatly appreciated, im not OS specific as i use both windows
and linux but that wouldnt matter for a scripting language other than
in the file handling??

cheers

greg



From gre7g-d-1059579503.1d83b3 at wolfhome.com  Fri Jul 25 11:38:30 2003
From: gre7g-d-1059579503.1d83b3 at wolfhome.com (Gre7g Luterman)
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 09:38:30 -0600
Subject: Why does Python do this?
Message-ID: <jnj2ivcfngh2qqhrdhe58nlsgspkjv1g57@4ax.com>

I realize this is a rather queer example, but I would expect the
following two classes to act the same basic way.  Does anyone know why
they do not?

Python 2.2.2 (#3, Jun 16 2003, 19:11:56)
[GCC 2.96 20000731 (Mandrake Linux 8.2 2.96-0.76mdk)] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import sys
>>> class a:
...   def __str__(self):
...     sys.stdout.write("written\n")
...     return "returned"
...
>>> class b:
...   def __str__(self):
...     print "printed"
...     return "returned"
...
>>> x=a(); y=b()
>>> print x
written
returned
>>> print y
 printed
returned

Note the extra space printed when I executed the "print y" command.

At first I thought it was just a quirk of the print command being
interrupted by another, but I don't think it is quite that simple.  Note
that:

>>> print str(x)
written
returned
>>> print str(y)
printed
returned
>>> print x.__str__()
written
returned
>>> print y.__str__()
printed
returned

work just as you might expect.

Here's another variation:

>>> import sys
>>> def a():
...   sys.stdout.write("written\n")
...   return "returned"
...
>>> def b():
...   print "printed"
...   return "returned"
...
>>> print a()
written
returned
>>> print b()
printed
returned

which works as expected.

So it only seems to happen when you interrupt a print statement with
another print statement during an implicit string conversion.

Any guesses?

Gre7g.




From jeremiah at facility9.com  Mon Jul 21 12:29:16 2003
From: jeremiah at facility9.com (Jeremiah McElroy)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 16:29:16 GMT
Subject: SOAPpy/Oracle errors
Message-ID: <wxUSa.11633$Vx2.5589776@newssvr28.news.prodigy.com>

I am using a .NET Web Service which returns successfully when tested 
through a .NET client.  However, when I access the client through 
Python, it successfully returns data to me in the format I expected 
(regardless of exceptions thrown, the web service always returns a 
datatable).  However, the Web Service is returning a OracleException.

Has anyone encountered anything like this in the past?

jeremiah




From wim_wauters at skynet.be  Mon Jul 14 14:52:36 2003
From: wim_wauters at skynet.be (WIWA)
Date: 14 Jul 2003 11:52:36 -0700
Subject: pySNMP: SNMPget example
References: <538fc8e.0307100356.4bf46554@posting.google.com> <betnfr$dqj$1@news.rol.ru>
Message-ID: <538fc8e.0307140736.19eb777@posting.google.com>

Thanks Ilya,

This has been very helpful. I'm able to get data out of my 'device
under test'.

I must be honnest and say that I understand the sample code, but could
not write or produce it myself.

How do you know e.g that
req.apiGetPdu().apiSetVarBind([('1.3.6.1.2.1.1.1.0', None)]) can be
written? I've read through the documentation and could not find
anything similar. Of course, I could overlook it.

Isn't there a tutorial out there that summarizes pysnmpv3 and gives
examples of snmpget, snmpset, snmpwalk, etc...

Thanks in advance for helping me out.

Regards,

Wim





Ilya Etingof <ilya at cray.glas.net> wrote in message news:<betnfr$dqj$1 at news.rol.ru>...
> > 2) when using: 'from pysnmp import role' (found on
> > http://pysnmp.sourceforge
> > .net/examples/2.x/snmpget.html), I get the message 'ImportError:
> 
> You seems to use pysnmp 2.x API which differs from the latest 3.x branch
> (though, a compatibility layer exists in 3.x distribution). That's why
> I suggest you looking at the 3.x docs and examples at:
> 
> http://pysnmp.sourceforge.net/docs/3.x/index.html
> 
> > 3) A general question: how can I get a list of what I can type after
> > the 'from
> > pysnmp import ...'
> 
> dir(<module>) may help but in this case I'd better see an example.
> 
> > 4) How can I use: 'from snmpget import snmpget'. It does not accept
> > this.
> 
> There is no such module as snmpget in pysnmp.
> 
> > 5) Anyone has a simple example for the following application: I have a
> > cable
> > modem (which has an SNMP agent inside). I want to make a script where
> > I can
> > do SNMPgets (and later SNMPSet and SNMPwalk). 
> 
> Python 1.5.2 (#3, Aug 25 1999, 19:14:24)  [GCC 2.8.1] on sunos5
> Copyright 1991-1995 Stichting Mathematisch Centrum, Amsterdam
> >>> from pysnmp.proto import v1
> >>> from pysnmp.proto.api import generic
> >>> from pysnmp.mapping.udp import role
> >>> req = v1.GetRequest()
> >>> req.apiGetPdu().apiSetVarBind([('1.3.6.1.2.1.1.1.0', None)])
> >>> tr = role.manager(('router-1.glas.net', 161))
> >>> (answer, src) = tr.send_and_receive(req.encode())
> >>> rsp = v1.GetResponse()
> >>> rsp.decode(answer)
> >>> vars = rsp.apiGetPdu().apiGetVarBind()
> >>> print vars
> [('.1.3.6.1.2.1.1.1.0', OctetString('Cisco Internetwork Operating System
> Software\015\012IOS (tm) 5400 Software(C5400-JS-M), Version 12.2(11.8b), 
> MAINTENANCE INTERIM SOFTWARE\015\012 Copyright (c) 1986-2002 by cisco 
> Systems, Inc.\015\012 Compiled Tue 30-Jul-02 19:02 by pwade'))]
> >>>
>  
> > 7) What is the difference between snmpget and getrequest in pysnmp? 
> 
> The only difference is the SNMP request object (GetRequest vs GetNextRequest)
> you create when building SNMP message.
> 
> -ilya



From exarkun at twistedmatrix.com  Thu Jul 10 02:01:47 2003
From: exarkun at twistedmatrix.com (Jp Calderone)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 02:01:47 -0400
Subject: Python Global Constant
In-Reply-To: <bein3o$5n3mj$1@ID-169208.news.dfncis.de>
References: <mailman.1057737013.30246.python-list@python.org> <3F0BE68B.893EB7E5@engcorp.com> <bein3o$5n3mj$1@ID-169208.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <20030710060134.GA12739@intarweb.us>

On Thu, Jul 10, 2003 at 04:06:55PM +1200, Greg Ewing (using news.cis.dfn.de) wrote:
> Peter Hansen wrote:
> >Just do what you did above, without the "const" modifier, which
> >doesn't exist and is not really needed in Python.
> 
> If you *really* insist on preventing anyone from changing
> them, it is possible, with some hackery. Here's one way
> that works:
> 
> #######################################################
> #
> #  MyModule.py
> #
> 
> _constants = ['PI', 'FortyTwo']
> 
> PI = 3.1415
> FortyTwo = 42
> 
> import types
> 
> class _ConstModule(types.ModuleType):
> 
>   __slots__ = []
> 
>   def __setattr__(self, name, value):
>     if name in self.__dict__['_constants']:
>       raise ValueError("%s is read-only" % name)
>     self.__dict__[name] = value
> 
> del types
> import MyModule
> MyModule.__class__ = _ConstModule
> 

    >>> import MyModule
    >>> del MyModule._constants[:]
    >>> MyModule.PI = 'Cherry, please'
    >>> MyModule.PI
    'Cherry, please'

  Jp

-- 
"The problem is, of course, that not only is economics bankrupt but it has
 always been nothing more than politics in disguise ... economics is a form
 of brain damage."  -- Hazel Henderson




From alanmk at hotmail.com  Fri Jul 11 10:02:51 2003
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 15:02:51 +0100
Subject: XML, xmlproc, MathML and validation
References: <cb035744.0307110533.61e5e125@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3F0EC38B.EBDE74E@hotmail.com>

Will Stuyvesant wrote:

> I am trying to validate a document with mixed XHTML and MathML.

> And the w3c validator at http://validator.w3.org/ says my XML file is
> valid.
> So far so good.

> But now I want to use xmlproc to both validate it and change something
> in it.  I use "from xml.parsers.xmlproc import xmlval".
> This works good when the DTD is local but does not work in this case,
> where the DTD is remote.  I can't have the MathML DTD local

That's what (SGML) "catalogs" are for: mapping public identifiers to
local files, and non-retrievable URIs to local files. For example, the
public identifier "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.1 plus MathML 2.0//EN" could be
mapped to a local file.

So you should be able to map DTD identifiers to your local system for
the times when a remote DTD is not available. More info from here

http://www.garshol.priv.no/download/software/xmlproc/catalog-doco.html

> The error message:
> 
> ERROR: xml:space must have exactly the values 'default' and 'preserve'
> at http:/
> /www.w3.org/TR/MathML2/dtd/xhtml-math11-f.dtd:2025:1

Have you supplied a value for the "xml:space" attribute anywhere in
your document?

If yes: you must have supplied a wrong value: you can only use
"default" or "preserve".

If no: I'm not familiar enough with the MathML DTD to know if it has
special requirements for whitespace processing.

Looking at your error message, and the DTD, might it be that you have
used a value other than "xml:space='preserve'" on a <pre> section?
Just a guess.

-- 
alan kennedy
-----------------------------------------------------
check http headers here: http://xhaus.com/headers
email alan:              http://xhaus.com/mailto/alan



From donn at u.washington.edu  Fri Jul 18 19:52:55 2003
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 16:52:55 -0700
Subject: IMAP examples
References: <3f15cf46$0$45389$1b62eedf@news.wanadoo.nl> <cb035744.0307162203.6b058ee1@posting.google.com> <mailman.1058451388.5767.python-list@python.org> <1058561410.563105@smirk> <3F187ED4.6179CDDD@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <donn-42D9CE.16525518072003@nntp6.u.washington.edu>

In article <3F187ED4.6179CDDD at engcorp.com>,
 Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:

> "James T. Dennis" wrote:
> > 
> > Sean 'Shaleh' Perry <shalehperry at comcast.net> wrote:
> > 
> > >> If my english was better I would love to help improve the python
> > >> documentation, most modules in the standard libraries lack good
> > >> examples how to *use* them with just a simple description.  And a
> > >> short motivation for the design of a module if possible like "just
> > >> copied the C API" or "Because of efficiency ..." or "We use a class
> > >> framework here because ...".  A gigantic task.  The PSL book by effbot
> > >> is great but it's a book.  And it needs a new version.
> > 
> > > part of the reason why the docs are not but so great is that most of the
> > > library is Python code which means any questions can be answered by 
> > > reading
> > > the source.  I find myself doing this quite often.
> > 
> >  <flame>That's BS!</flame>
> > 
> >  As a dabbler in programming I have to say that poor documentation is not
> >  excused by the availability of sources.  
> 
> True, but poor documentation *is* excused quite nicely by the LACK
> of availability of _re_sources, specifically the human resources and time
> required to make them better.
> 
> Or was your flame an indirect offer to assist with improving the 
> documentation of Python?  If so, thank you!

Well, he did offer some suggestions, which is about all most of
us do around here.  But I don't think I'd go along with the premise
as easily as you did - I mean, ``poor documentation is not excused
by the availability of source'' is true as far as it goes, but in
some cases I think ``source is good documentation'' can be true, too.

And in this specific case.  IMAP4 support is a can of worms.  Big
feature set here, baroque might be the word.  Not trivial to parse.
The imaplib solution is minimal.  It does a reasonable job setting
up an imap service connection and conducting a client/server dialogue,
but it doesn't get into the structure or significance of the data.
If you want to use IMAP, the documentation you need to read is the
RFC, unfortunately but it is a reasonable discussion of the protocol.

imaplib.__doc__ points to imaplib.IMAP4;  imaplib.IMAP4.__doc__ is
30 or 40 lines of concise information about the API.  I don't think
this is a crisis situation.

   Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu



From alanmk at hotmail.com  Sat Jul  5 12:30:09 2003
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Sat, 05 Jul 2003 17:30:09 +0100
Subject: Frustration with spurious posts.
References: <mailman.1057420812.18141.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3F06FD11.967D8D8A@hotmail.com>

Bob Gailer wrote:

> Does anyone know why we keep getting these posted to the list. Is there a
> way to stop it?

I think (?) it is because

1. There is a gateway process on python.org that emails usenet posts
from comp.lang.python to an email list, and vice versa.

2. So you can send to UseNet by sending to the email address of the
list.

3. People who receive the emails from the email list have emails with
the email list address on them.

4. Those people receive an email virus, e.g. SoBig, which sends a copy
of itself to every email address found in the persons mail folders,
which includes the address of the email list.

5. The email list receives the malware email, and forwards it to
everyone on the list.

6. Antivirus email gateways for *some* of the subscribers of the email
list spot the malware, and send back an email to the originator, i.e.
the email list address, saying "you sent me a virus!"

7. The gateway faithfully gateways these emails into Usenet posts, as
well as sending them to the list subscribers.

I might have got it wrong though. Take a look through the headers of
some of the messages in question, and see if the theory holds up.

Bringing an end to the problem would probably involve a fairly
substantial admin effort on the part of the python.org admins. Who are
volunteers, and pretty busy trying to keep up with the needs of the
ever-growing python community, and don't have much spare time.

regards,

-- 
alan kennedy
-----------------------------------------------------
check http headers here: http://xhaus.com/headers
email alan:              http://xhaus.com/mailto/alan



From staschuk at telusplanet.net  Sun Jul 20 14:43:41 2003
From: staschuk at telusplanet.net (Steven Taschuk)
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 12:43:41 -0600
Subject: object as a reserved keyword
In-Reply-To: <mxsG/ks/Kjoe089yn@the-wire.com>; from mwilson@the-wire.com on Sun, Jul 20, 2003 at 01:07:50PM -0400
References: <vtnkhvoqcet2bgmeidae1st46m7q9sr1p3@4ax.com> <bfe673$9mq$1@panix2.panix.com> <mxsG/ks/Kjoe089yn@the-wire.com>
Message-ID: <20030720124341.B438@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>

Quoth Mel Wilson:
  [...]
>    Plus it's not impossible that somebody could export a
> name in the set of standard names from a module or a
> class and accomplish something useful.  I'm having trouble
> finding a convincing example, [...]

re.compile()

-- 
Steven Taschuk                                                   w_w
staschuk at telusplanet.net                                      ,-= U
                                                               1 1




From bokr at oz.net  Wed Jul 30 14:46:14 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 30 Jul 2003 18:46:14 GMT
Subject: Upgrading python
References: <ItycnZqbMc9St7qiXTWc-w@speakeasy.net> <m33cgohbf9.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <bg93pm$72v$0@216.39.172.122>

On 30 Jul 2003 06:43:22 +0200, martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-15?q?L=F6wis?=) wrote:

>Stephen Boulet <stephen at theboulets.net> writes:
>
>> When I upgrade from 2.2.3 to 2.3 on windows, do I first uninstall 2.2.3?
>
>If you want to, you can have both 2.2 and 2.3 installed, side-by-side.
>If you want to replace 2.2, you should uninstall it first.
>
How do I know what will happen to file extension associations and the system path search
that takes unadorned python and finds some/path/to/python23.exe?

And how does the old python22 find what it needs? Do I need to go through a .cmd file that
sets up its environment before running? How do I know everything it needs?

IOW, how do you set up a clean way to run both 2.2.3 and 2.3 "side by side" but separately,
with default "python" going to 2.3?  I am being lazy in not reading the install docs yet,
but does it cover the question fully? If so, the answer to this post can just be "yes" ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From ianb at colorstudy.com  Fri Jul  4 16:50:50 2003
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: 04 Jul 2003 15:50:50 -0500
Subject: Least used builtins?
In-Reply-To: <czdB/kKkXkPA092yn@gnosis.cx>         
References: <b03e80d.0307040620.2158fd41@posting.google.com>
	 <ad052e5c.0307040927.4bfdff07@posting.google.com>
	 <mailman.1057341968.10073.python-list@python.org>
	 <czdB/kKkXkPA092yn@gnosis.cx>         
Message-ID: <1057351850.32271.25.camel@lothlorien>

While I agree some of the math stuff need not be in builtins, in most
case I think the things in builtins are reasonable.  Except of course
for functions that are essentially deprecated, or have become redundant.

On Fri, 2003-07-04 at 15:00, Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters wrote:
> To the top of a module/script.  Some quick thoughts:
> 
>     Current builtin     Possible Home
>     ---------------     ---------------
>     abs                 math
>     apply               functional
>     basestring          internal
>     bool
>     buffer
>     callable            sys

callable is a little funny, and not hugely useful, but sys isn't really
appropriate.

>     chr
>     classmethod         new

Ick, no.  classmethod, as well as staticmethod and property, are *meant*
to be builtins.  They are idiomatic, there's no reason they should
appear in a module.  There's no reason something named "classmethod"
should ever show up in another module, for instance.  Every programmer
needs to know what classmethod is -- hiding it won't reduce the amount
of things a programmer needs to know.

>     cmp
>     coerce
>     compile             code
>     complex             math

It makes sense, but I also would like to have the basic constructors and
types available as builtins.

>     delattr
>     dict
>     dir
>     divmod              math
>     enumerate           itertools

Again, this is idiomatic, and it belongs in builtins.

>     eval                code
>     execfile            code
>     file
>     filter              functional

Only because it's become redundant.

>     float
>     getattr
>     globals
>     hasattr
>     hash                internal
>     hex                 math
>     id                  internal
>     input
>     int
>     intern              internal
>     isinstance          sys
>     issubclass          sys

Definitely not -- these are very important, importing them would be
obnoxious.  Especially since "isinstance(value, str)" is the preferred
technique over "type(value) is str".

>     iter
>     len
>     list
>     locals
>     long
>     map                 functional
>     max                 math
>     min                 math
>     object              internal

Eh?  That's just silly!  If you are doing OO using 2.2 features you will
always end up importing this.

>     oct                 math
>     open
>     ord
>     pow                 math
>     property            new
>     range
>     raw_input
>     reduce              functinal
>     reload
>     repr
>     round               math
>     setattr
>     slice
>     staticmethod        new
>     str
>     super               internal

Again, highly idiomatic, programmers should be discouraged from using
this name for anything else, and it needs to be available to encourage
the use of this new feature.

>     tuple
>     type
>     unichr
>     unicode
>     vars
>     xrange              itertools
>     zip                 itertools

zip, like enumerate, is idiomatic -- importing it does not imply
anything about your code, that it comes from itertools lends little
insight into what zip does.  

Of course, this is all academic, as reducing builtins would cause
backward compatibility issues, while providing no real advantages.

  Ian






From lists at gregfortune.com  Fri Jul 11 09:17:53 2003
From: lists at gregfortune.com (Greg Fortune)
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 06:17:53 -0700
Subject: for in sequence problem... possible new operator to add to python
References: <3a8fc6c5.0307100816.634c83a3@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bFyPa.2534$Jk5.1685448@feed2.centurytel.net>

See http://python.org/doc/current/ref/sequence-types.html to make your
objects happy little lists.

Greg


Adam Gent wrote:

> I was fooling around subclassing a dictionary object and noticed that
> when
> I do the standard "for in <object-is-a-sequence>:" that I have no
> control on how python gets that sequence.
> 
> For example:
> 
> class Blah(dict):
>    pass
> 
> bl = Blah()
> 
> for b in bl:
>     #b will be a key and not a value
>     #no matter how I subclass Blah
> 
> However I want b to be the values with out doing:
> for b in bl.values()
> 
> I could be wrong on this but I believe python is missing an operator
> for looping over objects. I think there should be a __sequence__ or
> __forsequence__ operator that returns a sequence when "for x in
> object" syntax is used.
> So
> for b in bl: == for b in bl.__sequence__




From kumbaya at ftml.net  Tue Jul 15 05:59:49 2003
From: kumbaya at ftml.net (Jochen Knuth)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 11:59:49 +0200
Subject: PyUNO: Python bridge distributed with new OpenOffice.org
Message-ID: <bf0jam$7ro$03$1@news.t-online.com>

Hi,

with the release of the new 1.1rc of OpenOffice.org the python bridge to
the UNO development kit of OOo is included by default.

Look at 
http://www.openoffice.org/dev_docs/source/1.1rc/release_notes_1.1rc.html
for the announcement and
http://udk.openoffice.org/python/python-bridge.html (not yet updated
for 1.1rc) for details about PyUNO.

Ciao,
Jochen
(just read it on the OOo website)



From bockman at virgilio.it  Fri Jul  4 06:59:39 2003
From: bockman at virgilio.it (Francesco Bochicchio)
Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 10:59:39 GMT
Subject: [Dream] A meta-wrapper module to interface any C dynamic library
Message-ID: <pan.2003.07.04.10.59.31.477048@virgilio.it>

Hi all,

I was wondering if it would be possible to make a module which allows to
do something like that:

	import c_interface
	math_lib = c_interface.load('math.so', 'math.h' )
	sin_f = math_lib.get_function('sin')
	print "sin(3.14) = %f" % sin_f (3.14)

The idea would be to make a module that allows to use any C dynamic
library ( I used an hypothetical math.so only as example ) without 
the need of a specific wrapper module.

I've given some thought to this idea, but I was blocked by the theoric (?)
impossibility to correctly call a C function without knowing its prototype
at compile time.

Did anybody ever attempted to do something like this?

Ciao
-----
FB




From martin at v.loewis.de  Sun Jul  6 03:20:35 2003
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Sun, 06 Jul 2003 09:20:35 +0200
Subject: problems with sf cvs server?
In-Reply-To: <slrnbgeu10.o3b.wolfson@senator.cs.uchicago.edu>
References: <slrnbgeu10.o3b.wolfson@senator.cs.uchicago.edu>
Message-ID: <3F07CDC3.1080200@v.loewis.de>

Ben Wolfson wrote:

> Is anyone else experiencing trouble checking the python source tree
> out of the sf cvs server?  I hang forever here:
> 
> cvs server: Updating python/nondist/src/Compiler/tests/output

pserver access on SF suffers from being severly overloaded at the
moment. If all you want is a snaphot of the HEAD revision (and only
of the dist/src subtree), you can find such snapshot at

http://www.dcl.hpi.uni-potsdam.de/home/loewis/python.tgz

Regards,
Martin





From irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl  Mon Jul 14 16:42:19 2003
From: irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 22:42:19 +0200
Subject: ??????? ??? ??? ??????? ??????????) ))
In-Reply-To: <ad052e5c.0307131718.4903430d@posting.google.com>
References: <37d6f77c.0307130932.1e3adf0d@posting.google.com> <3f11ac74$0$49101$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl> <ad052e5c.0307131718.4903430d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3f1315ab$0$49100$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

Dan Bishop wrote:

> The Babelfish translation is
> 
> "People, you polskazhite plz where to reach progu to
> frizer(kazhet'sya, shorter must be into yekhe-shnik outdistanced)."

Ah thanks! That clears it all up. If we didn't have the Babelfish...

--Irmen




From peter at engcorp.com  Wed Jul  2 15:24:47 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 15:24:47 -0400
Subject: When is unit-testing bad? [was: Re: does lack of type...]
References: <3EEE1210.3004AB45@engcorp.com> <878ys06tcv.fsf_-_@pobox.com> <vf11j7l3f0ku52@news.supernews.com> <87of0pno5s.fsf@titan.staselog.com> <vg40uajdqo3ac4@corp.supernews.com> <bdunoh$1pms$1@biggoron.nerim.net>
Message-ID: <3F03317F.DDA7D71F@engcorp.com>

"Aur?lien G?ron" wrote:
> 
> There are things that are hard to unit test (I'm talking about automated
> unit tests here) and which you just can't do without in some projects.  For
> instance, the database!  I worked in a couple of projects with automatic
> unit tests for the DB related components, and having lived through it, I'm
> not sure that it was worth it at all!  Manual unit tests would have made
> much more sense.  The same goes for GUIs.  I'd be interested to know about
> projects where they automate unit tests for GUIs, but I suspect it would be
> just as cumbersome. And live without threads?  A lot of projects would be
> better off not using them, I agree with that, but some projects just can't
> do without them!  Web sites are also horrible to automatically unit test.
> In all those cases, I much prefer having a human being go out and do the
> unit tests manually.

Databases are generally considered much easier to do unit tests for than
GUIs.  

GUIs are recognized as difficult, but there are already fairly well-known 
approaches for simplifying the process, depending on what you need/expect 
out of the testing.  For example, one should generally count on the GUI
framework to do what it does correctly and not try to test, for example,
that a call to a drawText() method actually puts pixels on the canvas.
Instead, one should be testing that a call to drawText() is made, and
contains the correct text and positioning.

Web sites are equivalently simple to test, if you aren't trying to test
the presentation itself.  For example, unit-testing web forms is pretty 
trivial.  In fact, in most cases for web stuff, you don't need to actually
run a server, but I believe here I'm getting into XP-specific terminology
where "unit" test refers to something quite different from "acceptance"
or "customer" test, which is where you would be running the actual server.

-Peter



From martin at v.loewis.de  Sat Jul 12 17:58:07 2003
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 23:58:07 +0200
Subject: any such thing as list interleaving?
In-Reply-To: <hat0hv49g0e6bf3770c6df2cukknd5vak2@4ax.com>
References: <hat0hv49g0e6bf3770c6df2cukknd5vak2@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3F10846F.6030706@v.loewis.de>

Tom Plunket wrote:

> I find myself often doing the following sort of thing (sorry for
> lack of whitespace, I don't want the line to break):
> 
> for entry, index in map(lambda e,i:(e,i),aList,range(len(aList)):
>    # ...

In Python 2.3, you can write

for index, entry in enumerate(L):
   # ...

For 2.2, you can define enumerate yourself:

def enumerate(L):
   i = 0
   while 1:
     try:
       yield i, L[i]
     except IndexError:
       return
     i += 1

For older versions, yet another definition would be needed;
I leave that as an exercise.

> This also brings up a similar problem for me when iterating over
> dictionaries:
> 
> for key in myDict:
>    value = myDict[key]
>    # ...
> 
> This seems a pretty sloppy way to go about it, imo.  There must
> be something more in the Python spirit!  :)

Here, you could always write

for key, value in myDict.items():
   #...

Since 2.2, there is another method available which does not create
a list of tuples:

for key, value in myDict.iteritems():
   #...

HTH,
Martin





From bokr at oz.net  Wed Jul  2 17:32:56 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 2 Jul 2003 21:32:56 GMT
Subject: How Do You Get Redirected Input?
References: <l6GMa.6947$n%5.1338@nwrddc02.gnilink.net> <3f0333b6$0$49116$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl> <FVGMa.12600$JY1.4167@nwrddc01.gnilink.net>
Message-ID: <bdvj28$d9o$0@216.39.172.122>

On Wed, 02 Jul 2003 20:04:53 GMT, not your business <not.valid at address.org> wrote:

>Irmen de Jong wrote:
>
>> not your business wrote:
>>> I have a shell tool that accepts arguments on the command line. I would
>>> like
>>> to check if the input is being piped in.  That is,
>>>  
>>>         $ mytool.py < cmdlst.txt
>>> 
>>> In this case sys.argv is empty. So I added
>>> 
>>>         pipein = os.read(sys.stdin.fileno(),256)
>>>         if (pipein):
>>>             input_args = pipein.split()
>>>         else:
>>>             input_args = sys.argv[1:]
>>>  
>>> Problem is that if nothing is redirected in, the script waits for a Enter
>>> pressed on the the keyboard. Anyone know a solution to this?  Thanx in
>>> advance for any help.
>> 
>> Why not turn it around? First check if sys.argv is *not* empty,
>> in which case the user provided command line arguments, and
>> proceed to parse those. Otherwise (if sys.argv *is* empty),
>> assume the input is piped in and proceed to read the standard
>> input.
>> 
>> --Irmen
>
>Okay, but there still seems to be a problem.  Lets say you typed 
>        $ mytool.py
>
>If sys.argv[1:] is empty, I want to display help.  But if I'm checking for
>redirected input by my problematic method next, the script hangs, again,
>waiting for a Enter to be pressed and the user, therefore, doesn't my usage
>help.

If you want to use empty cmd line as help trigger, I'd say don't try to read stdin
in that case. Use an explicit command line option to indicate stdin input,
e.g., just '-' (maybe where you might otherwise have a file spec).
>
>I think I need to find a way to test for redirected input without the actual
>os.read() thing.  One hack that came to mind was to fork() a seperate
>process to do this and pipe back within a time period any results. The 
>parent could just go on if no response.  But that seems a little extreme
>(and ugly) plus it's platform dependent unless, I guess, I it do it with
>threads.
>
Seems ugly. Any reason you couldn't use
     $ cat stuff | mytool.py -
or such?

BTW, on some versions of windows, that better be
     $ cat stuff | python mytool.py -
since i/o redirection with extension-associated execution has bugs for some versions (e.g. NT4).


Regards,
Bengt Richter



From ngps at netmemetic.com  Mon Jul  7 11:35:49 2003
From: ngps at netmemetic.com (Ng Pheng Siong)
Date: 7 Jul 2003 15:35:49 GMT
Subject: What does this core dump mean?
References: <be6n34$824$1@mawar.singnet.com.sg> <TY6dnX7OCuPp35qiU-KYvw@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <bec40l$lan$1@reader01.singnet.com.sg>

According to Terry Reedy <tjreedy at udel.edu>:
> I cannot interprete the gdb trace either.  Info on the platform,
> Python version, what you changed to change the behavior, and the
> reproducibility of the dump behavior might help someone who can.

Ok, found the problem: in the new AES tests. Dumps core in direct EVP
usage, but not the BIO.CipherFilter. Hmmm...


-- 
Ng Pheng Siong <ngps at netmemetic.com> 

http://firewall.rulemaker.net  -+- Manage Your Firewall Rulebase Changes
http://www.post1.com/home/ngps -+- Open Source Python Crypto & SSL



From petrk at pochtamt.ru  Mon Jul 21 09:09:02 2003
From: petrk at pochtamt.ru (Peter Klyushkin)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 17:09:02 +0400
Subject: Directory Structure for Distutils
References: <bfgc58$edkhi$1@ID-63505.news.uni-berlin.de> <bfghi3$dqlq7$1@ID-63505.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <m3k7ac81sh.fsf@pochtamt.ru>

Hello, Thomas!

>>>>> "TG" == Thomas G?ttler writes:

 TG> Thomas G?ttler wrote:
>> Hi!
>> 
>> What is the best directory structure for python modules?
>> 
>> ...

 TG> (Replying to myself)

 TG> I downloaded the source of distutils and took it as an example.

 TG> One thing is still unclear: How can I copy non python files into
 TG> the destination?  There is a directory called "gif" which needs
 TG> to be in the directory of the my module.

Take a look at ResourcePackage.  It isn't exactly what you want but it
is exactly for your purpose.

 TG>  thomas

-- 
                                                             C'ya, Peter.
		      --=[petrk at pochtamt.ru]=--
        --=[ICQ 89449080]=--=[Jabber dassburger at jabber.ru]=--



From afriere at yahoo.co.uk  Tue Jul 29 00:05:47 2003
From: afriere at yahoo.co.uk (Asun Friere)
Date: 28 Jul 2003 21:05:47 -0700
Subject: XML Validation with Python
References: <cb035744.0307020901.472c3573@posting.google.com> <cb035744.0307030647.3aed82b6@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <38ec68a6.0307282005.afec1c1@posting.google.com>

hwlgw at hotmail.com (Will Stuyvesant) wrote in message news:<cb035744.0307030647.3aed82b6 at posting.google.com>...

> Anyway, I can now do XML validation, below is
> "validate.py".  But I am not solving my initial
> problem: if it validates, then validate.py prints
> nothing, if there is a mistake then it prints an error
> message.  What I really wanted; giving more confidence
> that the validation is okay; is to print 1 or 0
> depending on the result, but I have not figured out yet
> how to do that and now I am too tired of it all...

This might do the trick:

# file: validate.py
import sys, pyRXP

if len(sys.argv)<2 or sys.argv[1] in ['-h','--help','/?']: 
    print 'Usage: validate.py xmlfilename'
    sys.exit()

fn = open(sys.argv[1], 'r').read()
try :
    pyRXP.Parser().parse(fn)
    print True
except pyRXP.error :
    print False


Though personally, rather than printing False, I would simply raise in
the except clause, as the traceback provides the user with more
information as to what is wrong with their xml.



From LogiplexSoftware at earthlink.net  Thu Jul 10 18:15:53 2003
From: LogiplexSoftware at earthlink.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: 10 Jul 2003 15:15:53 -0700
Subject: Convert between Windows style paths and POSIX style paths
In-Reply-To: <c9d82136.0307101244.4594e04d@posting.google.com>
References: <c9d82136.0307101244.4594e04d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1057875353.1799.1.camel@software1.logiplex.internal>

On Thu, 2003-07-10 at 13:44, Noah wrote:
> Does anyone have a function to convert back and forth between
> NT style paths and POSIX style? It seems trivial, but 
> I want to make sure I don't overlook some obscure detail. 
> Is it a simple matter of translating / and \ characters?
> 
> FYI, I need a Python function that does what cygpath does so that
> I can run a script on either NT or UNIX or Cygwin.
> I want my config files use one style of path.

Just use POSIX paths and let the Python library sort it out.  It works. 
If you really need to do the conversions yourself, take a look at the
os.path module.

-- 
Cliff Wells, Software Engineer
Logiplex Corporation (www.logiplex.net)
(503) 978-6726  (800) 735-0555





From agentgt at yahoo.com  Fri Jul 11 13:23:27 2003
From: agentgt at yahoo.com (Adam Gent)
Date: 11 Jul 2003 10:23:27 -0700
Subject: for in sequence problem... possible new operator to add to python
References: <3a8fc6c5.0307100816.634c83a3@posting.google.com> <3F0D95E6.3BC763D3@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <3a8fc6c5.0307110923.64d4fb0c@posting.google.com>

Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message news:<3F0D95E6.3BC763D3 at engcorp.com>...

> 
> When you iterate over a dict in recent versions of Python, you 
> are by definition iterating over the keys in the dict.  If you
> want the values, you use .values(), and if you want both keys
> and values, you use .items().  See the docs for more.
> 
> -Peter

I wanted my dict to imitate a list... just for fun. A listdict if you
will. The only problem is that if you pass my listdict to code that
expects a true list  "for x in b" will break.
I did not know about __iter__(). Thanks for informing me.
__iter__ is not explained in
http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/module-operator.html
shouldn't it be there?



From mikael at isy.liu.se  Wed Jul  2 10:08:40 2003
From: mikael at isy.liu.se (Mikael Olofsson)
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 16:08:40 +0200
Subject: splitting a string into 2 new strings
In-Reply-To: <bdue2n$m07$1@aspen.sucs.soton.ac.uk>
References: <bdue2n$m07$1@aspen.sucs.soton.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <20030702160840.3c045dcf.mikael@isy.liu.se>

Hi Mark!

You wrote:
> I have a string e.g. 'C6 H12 O6' that I wish to split up to give 2
> strings 'C H O' and '6 12 6'.  I have played with string.split() and
> the re module - but can't quite get there.

What about this?

import string
t='C6 H12 O6'
theLetters=''.join([x for x in t if x in string.letters+' '])
theDigits=''.join([x for x in t if x in string.digits+' '])

HTH
/Mikael

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From tebeka at cs.bgu.ac.il  Tue Jul 29 04:51:08 2003
From: tebeka at cs.bgu.ac.il (Miki Tebeka)
Date: 29 Jul 2003 01:51:08 -0700
Subject: Debugging Python ?
References: <mailman.1059403181.10256.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <33803989.0307290051.4d05cdc9@posting.google.com>

Hello Bill,

> I'd be happy to hear your techniques to debug python programs.
> Is there any interactive debugging environment by any chance ?
IDLE comes with a debugger.

Personally I use pdb. I have the following line in my .bashrc:
alias pdb='python /lib/python2.3/pdb.py'

And then just
pdb myprog.py -n -q 10034

I like pdb since it allows me to evaluate expression during debugging.

HTH.
Miki



From ____indru_june at yahoo.com____  Fri Jul 11 00:54:02 2003
From: ____indru_june at yahoo.com____ (indru)
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 04:54:02 +0000
Subject: Business model for Open Source - advice wanted
References: <246a4e07.0307100613.fc2fc50@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3098672.1057899242@dbforums.com>

Your question is very valid  and to make money out of your exposed code
is very difficult if you consider that the product you are writing is a
general purpose one, say a loan calculator . But your area is Accounting
the area which requires a lot of customization. So writing a common
engine from where you can build customized solutions for your clients is
one way to make money. Here the question of support doesnt rise up since
your are the person who have written the code and you will be the best
person who knows about it and you can easily enter a contarct with the
people for support.
Wishing you best of luck
Indru

--
Posted via http://dbforums.com



From postmaster at 127.0.0.1  Fri Jul 11 21:22:16 2003
From: postmaster at 127.0.0.1 (David McNab)
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 13:22:16 +1200
Subject: The "intellectual property" misnomer
References: <mailman.1057951098.31738.python-list@python.org> <slrnbguf7g.q1.bignose-hates-spam@rose.localdomain.fake>
Message-ID: <pan.2003.07.12.01.22.15.831945@127.0.0.1>

On Sat, 12 Jul 2003 08:10:48 +0950, Ben Finney paused, took a deep breath,
then came out with:

> But please *don't* muddy the water by saying the PSF holds "the
> intellectual property rights" for Python.  That says nothing useful
<snip>

Too right.

Copyrights create a level of 'ownership' of verbatim code. Good.

Patents, as they're administered today, create a level of 'ownership' of
even the most simple concepts (the kind of thing anyone could think of),
whereby it's almost impossible these days to write more than a few dozen
lines of code without infringing n patents. Very bad.

The lumping together of these two very different legal categories is an
insidious lie that runs totally counter to the spirit of freedom which
Python represents, and threatens to turn software development into a
closed shop for only the largest corporations (which it was in the
earliest days, when only the largest organisations and companies could
afford a computer).

EB






From carol.crose at lmco.com  Thu Jul 10 19:47:07 2003
From: carol.crose at lmco.com (Crose, Carol)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 19:47:07 -0400
Subject: Problem running Flawfinder with Python
Message-ID: <9B38D82679975748AB4DE66A6523523601F71CEF@EMSS04M04.us.lmco.com>

 
I need to test some lsof source code and have loaded Flawfinder 1.22 to
test it.  Flawfinder  required Python 1.5 or better so I loaded Python
2.2.3.  This is all running on an HPUX 11.11 server.  
 
When I run:
/opt/flawfinder-1.22/flawfinder /usr/local/bin/lsof-4.67
I get the following error:
No such file or directory:  python
 
I am totally new to all these programs.  Can anyone help????
 
Thank you!
Carol
carol.crose at lmco.com
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From tomas at fancy.org  Thu Jul 10 21:12:55 2003
From: tomas at fancy.org (Tom Plunket)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 18:12:55 -0700
Subject: wxPython - question
References: <slrnbgre73.fld.pipen@beast.tu.kielce.pl>
Message-ID: <ac3sgv0uv35a7140v826rappcgvl3t2rjd@4ax.com>

Artur M. Piwko wrote:

> How can I remove program entry from taskbar (not tray)?

By reading the docs and using the right flags.  :)

(I've been using wx for two weeks.)

in wxFrame:

wxFRAME_NO_TASKBAR - Creates an otherwise normal frame but it
      does not appear in the taskbar under Windows (note that it
      will minimize to the desktop window which may seem strange
      to the users and thus it might be better to use this style
      only without wxMINIMIZE_BOX style). Has no effect under
      other platforms.  

so-

from wxPython.wx import *

class MyFrame(wxFrame):
   def __init__(self):
      style = wxDEFAULT_FRAME_STYLE | wxFRAME_NO_TASKBAR

      wxFrame.__init__(self, None, -1, "Taskbar?", style=style)

if __name__ == "__main__":
   a = wxPySimpleApp()
   w = MyFrame()
   w.Show()
   a.MainLoop()

-tom!



From rreagan at attbi.com  Thu Jul  3 19:39:21 2003
From: rreagan at attbi.com (Russell Reagan)
Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 23:39:21 GMT
Subject: A story about Python... sort of
References: <3f03f430$0$97222$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk> <KwWMa.3332$Aw.3042@twister.nyc.rr.com> <3f04727e@news.swissonline.ch>
Message-ID: <J83Na.31565$fG.15978@sccrnsc01>

"F. GEIGER" <fgeiger at datec.at> wrote

> [OT] That's not a pro, that's a con on the C++ side. And actually that's
the
> reason why there's so much bad C++ software. A C programmer first has to
> forget C to be able to program in C++ - well, to be able to program OO in
> C++.

C++ is not an OO language. It is a multi-paradigm language that happens to
support OO features. No one is required to program OO in C++. It's even very
debatable if it's better to program OO in C++. OOP is just another tool, and
in a lot of cases, objects don't make sense for a particular problem (I
can't count the number of times I've tried to cram something into an OO
system). There is nothing wrong with using C++ as a "better C", taking
advantage of type safety, safer "macros" (inline functions), and it doesn't
require any OO knowledge to be able to understand the concept of
encapsulation within a class (you can do the same encapsulation in C
programs, and any good C programmer would do this anyway).

Personally, I prefer to pick some from both C and C++. I use classes and use
an object oriented structure to my programs, but I generally don't get into
inheritance, virtual anything, templates, etc. (there are exceptions of
course). Mainly I enjoy the compiler enforced restrictions on data and
functions that the class mechanism supplies.





From p-abel at t-online.de  Fri Jul  4 17:18:28 2003
From: p-abel at t-online.de (Peter Abel)
Date: 4 Jul 2003 14:18:28 -0700
Subject: strings problem
References: <mailman.1057340587.28530.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <13a533e8.0307041318.5025787a@posting.google.com>

"Jimmy verma" <jim_938 at hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.1057340587.28530.python-list at python.org>...
> Hello *.*
> 
> Can you please tell me how can i have the output in no's, instead of string 
> from this program:
> 
> #/usr/bin/python
> import re
> import string
> 
> def csNumEncode(num):
>     if(num>=-107 and num<=107):
>         return chr(num+139)
>     elif(num>=108 and num<=1131):
>         return chr(((num-108)/256)+247) + chr((num-108)%256)
>     else:
>         print 'do nothing'
> 
> re_num = re.compile("\-?[0-9]+(\.[0-9]+)?")
> 
> 
> def CompileCS(source):
>   result=''
>   for tkn in re.split('[ \n\t]+', source):
>     print "Token: %s"%tkn
>     if re_num.match(tkn):
>         result = result + csNumEncode(string.atoi(tkn))
>     else:
>         raise SyntaxError, "%s is invalid operator"%tkn
>   return result
> 
> src1 = '50  800'
> 
> t = CompileCS(src1)
> 
> print t
> 
> 
> 
> The output is
> 
> Token: 50
> Token: 800
> \275\371\264
> 
> 

I didn't check every line of your script.
Maybe in some earlier lines you can do some manipulation of data.

> Instead of this i want the output should be in no's like this:
> bdF9B4

But concerning the output the following two lines can do what you want:
>>> yourOutput='\275\371\264'
>>> print '%02x%02X%02X'%tuple(map(ord,yourOutput))
bdF9B4


> 
> Your suggestions will be welcomed.
> 
> Thanks a lot.
> 
> Regards,
> Jim
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Looking for love? Yearning for friendship? http://www.msn.co.in/Romance/ 
> You're in the right place.

Regards
Peter



From hans at deragon.biz  Sun Jul  6 07:06:59 2003
From: hans at deragon.biz (Hans Deragon)
Date: 6 Jul 2003 04:06:59 -0700
Subject: Red Hat 9, Python and Glade - a mixure not working?
References: <c7427279.0307050724.147536d1@posting.google.com> <d2HNa.427458$3n5.51831@news2.central.cox.net>
Message-ID: <c7427279.0307060306.1345e06@posting.google.com>

"David M. Cook" <davecook at nowhere.net> wrote in message news:<d2HNa.427458$3n5.51831 at news2.central.cox.net>...
> In article <c7427279.0307050724.147536d1 at posting.google.com>, Hans Deragon
> wrote:

[...deleted lines...]

> > gtk.glade.XML('project3.glade')
> 
> Should be
> 
> xml = gtk.glade.XML('project3.glade')

Ok, here I am embarrassed... forgetting to assign xml... ;)

> > xml.autoconnect({
> >   'on_button4_clicked': on_button4_clicked
> > })
> 
> Or you can just use
> 
> xml.signal_autoconnect(locals())
> 
> See glade_demo.py in the /usr/share/doc/pygtk2-1.99.14/examples/glade/.

Thanks for the tips.  But the problem still persist.  Now I run the
following:

------------------
[root at world project3]#
/usr/share/doc/pygtk2-1.99.14/examples/glade/glade-demo.py
project3.glade

(glade-demo.py:3405): GLib-GObject-CRITICAL **: file gobject.c: line
1002 (g_object_get): assertion `G_IS_OBJECT (object)' failed

(glade-demo.py:3405): GLib-GObject-CRITICAL **: file gobject.c: line
1002 (g_object_get): assertion `G_IS_OBJECT (object)' failed
Segmentation fault
------------------

So the problem is not my code.  I must assume that the glade module
for gnome is not adapted for taking in Glade 2 xml?

Then I tried with a Glade 1 xml:

-----------------
[root at world project2]#
/usr/share/doc/pygtk2-1.99.14/examples/glade/glade-demo.p
y project2.glade

(glade-demo.py:3541): libglade-WARNING **: Expected <glade-interface>.
 Got <GTK
-Interface>.

(glade-demo.py:3541): libglade-WARNING **: did not finish in
PARSER_FINISH state
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/share/doc/pygtk2-1.99.14/examples/glade/glade-demo.py",
line 12, in
 ?
    xml = gtk.glade.XML(fname)
RuntimeError: could not create GladeXML object
-----------------

Different errors, same results.  Nothing works.  However the
test.glade xml file provided as an example works fine.  I believe that
there is some widget in my glade2 xml file that is simply not
supported by python.  I will investigate further the issue later.

Thanks,
Hans Deragon



From logistix at cathoderaymission.net  Tue Jul 29 00:13:43 2003
From: logistix at cathoderaymission.net (logistix at cathoderaymission.net)
Date: 28 Jul 2003 21:13:43 -0700
Subject: Debugging Python ?
References: <mailman.1059409013.10134.python-list@python.org> <vian1bbfkogpa1@news.supernews.com> <ef72fb2b.0307281449.6b144be7@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3c91a864.0307282013.2acb2d1f@posting.google.com>

pedro.werneck at bol.com.br (Pedro Werneck) wrote in message news:<ef72fb2b.0307281449.6b144be7 at posting.google.com>...
> I use:
> 
> if __debug__: print "bla, bla, bla..."
> 
> And I was just wondering if it's legal to define a "print" function...
> isn't print a keyword ?

Instead of defining "print" you can assign a custom class to
sys.stdout.  Then all the print statements get automagically
redirected.:

if __debug__:
    class newStdout:
        def write(self,string):
            print string
else:
    class newStdout:
        def write(self,string):
            pass

import sys
sys.stdout = newStdout()



From jjl at pobox.com  Mon Jul 21 10:16:03 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 21 Jul 2003 15:16:03 +0100
Subject: "Pure Python" MySQL module like Net::MySQL
References: <bfddmi$7nk$1@eeyore.INS.cwru.edu> <mailman.1058718091.1276.python-list@python.org> <7xk7advy4c.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <87fzl0q82k.fsf@pobox.com>

Paul Rubin <http://phr.cx at NOSPAM.invalid> writes:

> Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com> writes:
[...]
> > libraries haven't been ported.  On the other hand, the MySQL wire protocol
> > is probably not part of the official external interface, so the author has
> > to track changes to the protocol.
> 
> What the heck?  If the wire protocol isn't part of the official
> external interface, then how on earth are external applications
> supposed to talk to the database?  They certainly can't expect you to
> use black-box client libraries if they're at all serious about being
> in the same league with Oracle.

Why not?

In any case, MySQL *isn't* in the same league as Oracle or PostgreSQL,
is it?


John



From duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk  Tue Jul 22 04:14:00 2003
From: duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk (Duncan Booth)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 08:14:00 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Python scripting with Paint Shop Pro 8.0
References: <kl3lhvgh5iillo5g9jvff92qkc8i2022nm@4ax.com> <bfe6bo$cdr$1@panix2.panix.com> <ucvlhvgj9nm4op4u2rqrkif7n04d520gbo@4ax.com> <87d6g4wzu7.fsf@pobox.com> <bpnmhvg7m3sf3rjphodfvgomtt3jg640hn@4ax.com> <Xns93BF9868E285Bduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1> <t25ohv824kde3dh6hvjs6ic9i3d5r98m8j@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <Xns93C05D87B641duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

Marc Wilson <marc at cleopatra.co.uk> wrote in
news:t25ohv824kde3dh6hvjs6ic9i3d5r98m8j at 4ax.com: 

>|The documentation is available as a separate download (for those
>|people who didn't get their copy on CD, such as the evaluation copy).
>|4798 files, but having looked at them I wouldn't say they were the
>|best documentation ever. 
> 
> I do have a CD, but the files aren't on it.  Perhaps it's a duff CD.

See the downloads area at 
http://www.jasc.com/products/paintshoppro/components.asp
for Scripting for Script Authors and Paint Shop Pro 8 Scripting API 
downloads.

-- 
Duncan Booth                                             duncan at rcp.co.uk
int month(char *p){return(124864/((p[0]+p[1]-p[2]&0x1f)+1)%12)["\5\x8\3"
"\6\7\xb\1\x9\xa\2\0\4"];} // Who said my code was obscure?



From not.valid at address.org  Sun Jul 13 15:28:15 2003
From: not.valid at address.org (YoTuco)
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 19:28:15 GMT
Subject: Multiple Class Inheritance Question
Message-ID: <jpiQa.4284$Y%3.2387@nwrddc03.gnilink.net>

Does (can) an inheritance scheme like this have any adverse effects
(pitt-falls) for the App class inheriting class 'A' twice? 

Thanx in advance for your input.

class A:
    A_attr = 'A'
    ...
    def A_methods(self):
    ...

class B(A):
    def __init__(self):
    ...

class C(A):
    def __init__(self):
    ...

class App(B,C):
    def __init__(self):
        B.__init__(self)
        C.__init__(self)
    ...




From skip at pobox.com  Wed Jul  9 14:43:08 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 13:43:08 -0500
Subject: LOADING DATA INTO ARRAYS
In-Reply-To: <200307100228.50214.skchim0@engr.uky.edu>
References: <200307100147.05841.skchim0@engr.uky.edu>
        <16140.22733.468173.643296@montanaro.dyndns.org>
        <200307100228.50214.skchim0@engr.uky.edu>
Message-ID: <16140.25148.892220.518129@montanaro.dyndns.org>

Don't forget to cc the list.  You get more people looking at your problem

    satish> The data of "fluidcylinder" is as folllows:

    satish> 1.00000000000000        0.00000000000000D+000   0.00000000000000D+000
    satish> 0.932113519778473       0.362166241174114        0.00000000000000D+000

    satish> I am getting the following error:

    satish>  xval,yval,zval=map(float,line.split())
    satish> ValueError: invalid literal for float(): 0.00000000000000D+000

It's been many years since I programmed any Fortran, so I'm no longer sure
what the 'D' notation stands for (double-precision?).  As a first guess, I'd
suggest you change the 'D's to 'E's:

    >>> line.replace('D', 'E').split()
    ['1.00000000000000', '0.00000000000000E+000', '0.00000000000000E+000']
    >>> map(float, line.replace('D', 'E').split())
    [1.0, 0.0, 0.0]

Skip





From tim.one at comcast.net  Sat Jul  5 14:06:53 2003
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2003 14:06:53 -0400
Subject: A possible bug in python threading/time module?
In-Reply-To: <3F0708E4.5A1603A2@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCGEBJENAB.tim.one@comcast.net>

[Alan Kennedy]
> I just wanted to post a quick message to thank Tim for his endless
> efforts to ensure the high quality of python on the widest range of
> platforms possible.
>
> I can see by the times of some of the posted messages that Tim worked
> long and late on this problem, and didn't stop until he knew the
> answer and implemented the solution.
>
> Thanks, Tim, for your dedication and excellence :-)

Rest assured that no good deed goes unpunished, Alan -- but it's nice to get
a "thanks" once a decade or so <wink>.

pain-is-its-own-reward-ly y'rs  - tim





From claird at lairds.com  Sat Jul  5 17:01:08 2003
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Sat, 05 Jul 2003 21:01:08 -0000
Subject: Python Code Snippets
References: <be1hs0$111s$1@biggoron.nerim.net>
Message-ID: <vgef4kdnlkhs99@corp.supernews.com>

In article <be1hs0$111s$1 at biggoron.nerim.net>,
Aur?lien G?ron <ageron at HOHOHOHOvideotron.ca> wrote:
>Hi,
>
>Does anyone know where I can find a lot of Python code snippets?
>
>I searched the Python wiki and Internet but could not find more than five or
>ten code snippets at a time.
>
>I'm looking for a kind of organized list (GUI snippets, database access
>snippets, I/O snippets, etc.).  I find that there's no better way to learn a
>language than to be able to cut&paste actual working bits of code.
			.
			.
			.
Along with everything the others have offered, "Python-URL!"
<URL: http://www.ddj.com/topics/pythonurl/ > offers a con-
centrated dose of the week's highlights.  You might find
that useful in the regard you describe.
-- 

Cameron Laird <Cameron at Lairds.com>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
Personal:  http://phaseit.net/claird/home.html



From kp at kyborg.dk  Wed Jul  9 04:12:29 2003
From: kp at kyborg.dk (Kim Petersen)
Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 10:12:29 +0200
Subject: mx odbc
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1057680332.32247.python-list@python.org>
References: <3f0accb5$0$13191$edfadb0f@dread15.news.tele.dk> <mailman.1057680332.32247.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3f0bce6d$0$13245$edfadb0f@dread15.news.tele.dk>

M.-A. Lemburg wrote:
> Kim Petersen wrote:
> 
>> Regarding ODBC usage in Python...
>>
>> it seems to me that there is a couple of ways to use odbc from python,
>> one of these is the MX version - now that one has a pretty steep 
>> licence cost (imho). So now comes my question (from reading this group 
>> quite a bit):
>>
>>     - what is the basic reason for using MX versus the others?
> 
> 
> Having a maintained and actively supported ODBC interface which
> works on all major platforms, not just Windows ?!

I'm not arguing that thats not important - *but* paying 70$ pr. 
customer, is the equivalent of paying you for 1hr of support for each 
customer [not installation mind you], where our own licence/supportcost 
is already getting lower and lower... I find that _extremely_ steep - i 
could and would accept such a cost for the python platform (no trouble!) 
[except in the few (from our view) cases where the user just needs a 
small tool.

IMHO your setting the value of the package so high, that there would be 
better economics in making a rewrite of our database modules every time 
a customer needs some new one (porting to a new database specific DB-SIG 
compliant module).

> 




From hokiegal99 at hotmail.com  Tue Jul  8 20:24:42 2003
From: hokiegal99 at hotmail.com (hokiegal99)
Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 20:24:42 -0400
Subject: regexp and filenames
Message-ID: <befn47$5u4$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>

I have a bit of a problem that I think Python can solve, but I need a 
bit of direction. I'm replacing 12 Macs with PCs. Macs allow characters 
in filenames that Windows does not, specifically the following:

: * ? " < > | / \

I would like to write a script that searches through a directory for 
filenames that contain any of the aboved listed characters and replaces 
them with a - (the minus sign).

I'm familiar with regexp, but I've only used it in Python to act on the 
contents of a file, not filenames in a directory. Any pointers on how to 
approach this are welcome!




From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Jul 15 12:21:27 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 12:21:27 -0400
Subject: delete file
References: <2c6431ab.0307100711.780a65ad@posting.google.com> <mailman.1057851734.20147.python-list@python.org> <QugPa.26879$FN3.2233696@news.ono.com> <3F0D962E.23DA9F59@engcorp.com> <2c6431ab.0307110529.7a336f30@posting.google.com> <3F0EBFED.BB283660@engcorp.com> <2c6431ab.0307150743.7dd52f3f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3F142A07.34072E2F@engcorp.com>

lamar_air wrote:
> 
> I am using this remove method and it works well as long as the file is
> there
>    os.remove("C:\Inetpub\wwwroot\Cgi-bin\output.txt")
> If the file doesn't exist then i get an error that the file is not
> found.  I want to stay away from using
>    f2=open('C:\Inetpub\wwwroot\Cgi-bin\output.txt', 'w') so how can i
> check if the file exists first?

I'm still confused.  You "want to stay away from using open(xx)"
but you are getting an error from os.remove when the file doesn't
exist.

Why do you want to stay away from open() when it would clearly fix
the problem?  It does not raise an exception when the file doesn't
exist, and it quietly truncates (effectively removes) the file when
it already does exist.

Anyway, if you insist on using os.remove(), just put it in a 
try/except OSError block and catch the exception that is thrown
when the file does not exist.

Alternatively, and the worst of all the solutions, is to use
os.path.exists() first to check if the file already exists, and
only then to call os.remove().

The choice is yours.  Personally, I'd go with open(xxx, 'w') since
that's safer, idiomatic (i.e. standard usage), and much simpler.

-Peter



From adechert at earthlink.net  Tue Jul 22 16:40:31 2003
From: adechert at earthlink.net (Alan Dechert)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 20:40:31 GMT
Subject: Voting Project Needs Python People
References: <LDVSa.14955$Mc.1126731@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <xqxwuebfyym.fsf@cola2.ca.boeing.com> <bfhhgq$5lu$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net> <xqx7k6b36r8.fsf@cola2.ca.boeing.com> <jk_Sa.113364$Io.9707082@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <7x65lv31hf.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <z8%Sa.113480$Io.9712518@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <xqxsmoyitto.fsf@cola2.ca.boeing.com>
Message-ID: <3jhTa.115229$Io.9825106@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>

"Harry George" <harry.g.george at boeing.com> wrote in message
news:xqxsmoyitto.fsf at cola2.ca.boeing.com...
>
> No, I said the paper and the CRT or LCD were correct.  It was just the
> electronic storage that was altered.
>
Okay, right.  My mistake.  I read #1 as one scenario and #2 as different
scenario.

Nonetheless, I maintain that such a game would be caught easily.  Checking a
very small sample before announcing the preliminary (electronic) count would
catch it.  If one percent of the electronic votes were altered (evenly
distributed), you will find one mismatch for sure after checking only a
dozen or two ballots.  If the one percent is not evenly distributed, it will
show up as very suspicious results in the areas where the alterations were
concentrated.  So, before announcing the electronic count, the result should
be given a common sense review.  For example, if Orange County in CA shows
75 % for the Democrat you know something's wrong (or San Francisco shows 75
% for the Republican).  Then samples should be checked in various locations
with any unexpected looking results getting special attention.

If you find one mismatch while sampling, you know there's a problem and the
tally would be delayed until all the paper ballots have been scanned.  Then
you do some manual checking of the results from scanning.

Then, you figure out how the rigging was carried out.  If the machines were
rigged all over, this would imply a very large conspiracy -- a very large
risk for a large number of people doing something that will be caught with
absolute certainty (thus very unlikely to happen).

Alan Dechert






From wayne at mishre.com  Wed Jul 16 20:31:59 2003
From: wayne at mishre.com (Wayne Pierce)
Date: 16 Jul 2003 17:31:59 -0700
Subject: Installing milter-0.5.4 (Python) on Mandrake 9.x with updates.
Message-ID: <2a897f11.0307161631.7f41db19@posting.google.com>

I have been working on installing the Python bindings for Milters on a
Mandrake 9.x system.

When I type:

python setup.py build

I get the following error (last 4 lines of output):

  File "/usr/lib/python2.2/distutils/command/build_ext.py", line 231,
in run
    customize_compiler(self.compiler)
  File "/usr/lib/python2.2/distutils/sysconfig.py", line 145, in
customize_compiler
    (cc, opt, ccshared, ldshared, so_ext) = \
  File "/usr/lib/python2.2/distutils/sysconfig.py", line 427, in
get_config_vars
    func()
  File "/usr/lib/python2.2/distutils/sysconfig.py", line 332, in
_init_posix
    raise DistutilsPlatformError(my_msg)
distutils.errors.DistutilsPlatformError: invalid Python installation:
unable to open /usr/lib/python2.2/config/Makefile (No such file or
directory)

The directory does not exist, although from what I can tell Distutils
is supposed to be included with all versions of Python since 1.6.  A
search on my system does not find anything named "Distutils" .

I used the Sendmail from the Mandrake CD and have not built it from
source (yet).

I can install Distutils, but do not want to cause issues with anything
already installed on my system...I may need to re-install python to
use threads anyway.

Any thoughts on where to look?  Thanks for any help,

Wayne



From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Fri Jul 18 18:47:13 2003
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 18 Jul 2003 18:47:13 -0400
Subject: Threading Pool Event()
References: <0tRRa.212$vD1.8077@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au> <bf8ri5$cs7$1@panix1.panix.com> <NDZRa.273$vD1.11889@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au>
Message-ID: <bf9tdh$36$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <NDZRa.273$vD1.11889 at nnrp1.ozemail.com.au>,
Graeme Matthew <gsmatthew at ozemail.com.au> wrote:
>
>Thanks, ive actually been using your OSCON slides which have helped a
>lot.  So it technically correct that all worker threads in a thread
>pool are either doing some work or polling the queue to find out if
>there is a job to process ?

The whole point is that it *doesn't* poll.  It blocks on a lock internal
to the Queue object.  That makes it extremely efficient.

>eg: (pseudocodish :-))
>
>def run(self):
>
>    while 1:
>
>        self.lock.acquire()
>
>        if QueueManager.HasJob:
>            job = QueueManager.GetFreeJob()
>            __processJob(job)
>
>        self.lock.release()
>
> def __processJob(self):
>
>        blah blah blah .....

Nope, it's even simpler than that:

    def run(self):
        done = False
        while not done:
            job = q.get()
            if job.done:
                done = True
            else:
                __processJob(job)

The Queue handles all the locks for you.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

A: No.
Q: Is top-posting okay?



From mpeuser at web.de  Tue Jul 22 06:36:57 2003
From: mpeuser at web.de (Michael Peuser)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 12:36:57 +0200
Subject: Spinning OpenGL.Tk graphics
References: <bfitk2$ule$01$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <bfj43u$ill$04$1@news.t-online.com>

Maybe I found a work-around:

  o = Opengl()

  o.bind('<B1-Motion>', o.tkTranslate)
  o.bind('<Button-3>', o.StartRotate)
  o.bind('<B3-Motion>', o.tkRotate)
  o.bind('<Shift-Button-1>', o.tkRecordMouse)
  o.bind('<Shift-B1-Motion>', o.tkScale)

This was taken (but modified) from the OglSurface/Frame example - that demo
didn't run however before I changed
some glVertex3f to glVertex3fv .....

Michael
------------
"Michael Peuser" <mpeuser at web.de> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:bfitk2$ule$01$1 at news.t-online.com...
> Python's OpenGL.Tk binding makes simple 3D drawing a snap! The default
mouse
> keys for  panning and sizing is left and right, for rotation it seems to
be
> the middle key which is on just very few people's mouse nowadays.
>
> Of course I tried obvious and not so obvious shift/alt/contrl/mouse
> combinations- without any success.
> Is there a work-around? The docu for the binding is somewhat obscure and
one
> has to guess a lot ;-) I haven't figured out yet how to use AutoSpin ....
> I am using Windows2000
>
> Thanks for suggestions and may be hints to more detailed documentation.
>
> Michael
>
>





From vze4rx4y at verizon.net  Tue Jul 22 03:27:21 2003
From: vze4rx4y at verizon.net (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 07:27:21 GMT
Subject: Python Mystery Theatre -- Episode 3:  Extend this
Message-ID: <tH5Ta.24164$7O.4744@nwrdny01.gnilink.net>

Here are few more mini-mysteries for your amusement
and edification.

Again in this episode, the program output is not shown.
Your goal is to predict the output and, if anything
mysterious occurs, then explain what happened
(in blindingly obvious terms).

This time, the extra credit is for picking-out the three
that surfaced as errors in my own, real code over
the past few years (the example context below may be
different, but the type of error occurred in real code).

Try to solve these without looking at the other posts.
Let me know if you learned something new along the way.


Enjoy,


Raymond Hettinger


ACT I ---------------------
def real(z):
    return hasattr(z, 'real') and z.real or z
def imag(z):
    return hasattr(z, 'imag') and z.imag or 0
for z in 3+4j, 5, 0+6j, 7.0, 8+0j, 9L:
    print real(z), imag(z)

ACT II ---------------------
uniq = {}
for k in (10, 'ten', 10+0j, u'ten', 'Ten', 't'+'en', 10.0):
    uniq(k) = 1
print len(uniq)

ACT III ---------------------
s = 'abracadabra'
for i in [3, 2, 1, 0]:
        print s[i:], s[-i:]

ACT IV ---------------------
pets = list('cat ')
pets += 'dog '
pets.extend('fish ')
print pets + 'python'

INTERMISSION (with output included, oh yeah! ------------
>>> import operator
>>> 1 - reduce(operator.add, [1e-7]* 10**7)
2.4983004554002264e-010

ACT V ---------------------
class Bin:
    numitems = 0
    contents = []

    def add(self, item):
        self.numitems += 1
        self.contents += [item]

laundry = Bin()
groceries = Bin()

laundry.add('shirt')
groceries.add('bananas')
groceries.add('nuts')
laundry.add('socks')
groceries.add('pretzels')

print laundry.numitems, laundry.contents
print groceries.numitems, groceries.contents


ACT VI -----------------------------------------
print "What is the technical name for this algorithm or transformation?"
a = range(0, 100, 10)
import random
random.shuffle(a)
print "Input:", a
swaps = 0
for i in range(len(a)):
    for j in range(i+1, len(a)):
    if a[i] > a[j]:
        i, j, a[i], a[j], swaps = j, i, a[j], a[i], swaps+1
print "Output:", a
print "Workload;", swaps






From h.b.furuseth at usit.uio.no  Tue Jul  8 10:52:33 2003
From: h.b.furuseth at usit.uio.no (Hallvard B Furuseth (nospam nospam))
Date: 08 Jul 2003 16:52:33 +0200
Subject: path module
References: <mailman.1057651032.22842.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <HBF.20030708keeu@bombur.uio.no>

If there is going to be a New Wonderful Path module, I suggest you give
some thought to paths on systems that don't fit the simple Unix/Windows
path model.  A path to a filename may e.g. looks different from a path
to a directory.  It's a long time since I used anything like that, but I
think Tops-20 filename paths looked like this:

    device:<dir.dir.dir>file.ext;version

where most components were optional.  The device: part could also be a
'logical name' (basically an alias) for a directory or device, I don't
remember if it could alias a file name too.

The Common Lisp pathname type might be worth looking into,
<http://www.iti.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de/cl-hyperspec/Body/sec_19-2.html>
They have done a lot of work to try to get it right, and from what
I hear they did a good job.

-- 
Hallvard



From bokr at oz.net  Sat Jul 12 16:46:33 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 12 Jul 2003 20:46:33 GMT
Subject: [OFF TOPIC] Re: The "intellectual property" misnomer
References: <mailman.1057978117.8939.python-list@python.org> <3f103fa7_6@corp.newsgroups.com>
Message-ID: <beps39$9ot$0@216.39.172.122>

On Sat, 12 Jul 2003 13:04:03 -0400, "Steve Pinard" <sNO_SPAMpinard at zoominternet.net> wrote:

>This newsgroup is for postings related to the computer language Python.
>
>Your discussion about the meaning of intellectual property may best be
>
>served in a newsgroup for topics related to the law.
>
>
>
>(In other words, you all should know better. Take it outside.)
>
Yeah, but you should know that telling others what they should know
and what they should do tends to rub them the wrong way ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From michaeljwhitmore at netscape.net  Tue Jul  8 16:09:55 2003
From: michaeljwhitmore at netscape.net (Michael J Whitmore)
Date: 8 Jul 2003 13:09:55 -0700
Subject: Newbie - Directory/File Creation
Message-ID: <68a42404.0307081209.4baafd5@posting.google.com>

If I do the following, a file is created in the current working
directory:
    TestFile = open("TestTest.out", 'w') 

My question is how to create a file that includes a pathname without
having to mkdir beforehand.
    Example:
    TestFile = open("TestDir\TestTest.out", 'w')

Shouldn't open be smart enough to create the TestDir directory before
creating TestTest.out   ?

Is there another command that will do this?



From irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl  Thu Jul 31 13:33:15 2003
From: irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 19:33:15 +0200
Subject: Retrieve source filename
In-Reply-To: <3f29207d$0$24768$626a54ce@news.free.fr>
References: <3f29207d$0$24768$626a54ce@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <3f2952da$0$49110$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

Shrom wrote:

> I know that you can retrieve main file name with sys.argv[0] and file name
> for a module with modulename.__file__ but is there a common way to retrieve
> file name for both main program and modules as the __FILE__ constant in PHP
> ?

I don't know if it's the "right" way, but this works:

import inspect
print inspect.getfile(inspect.currentframe())


--Irmen




From xiarcel at prodigy.net  Thu Jul  3 07:04:49 2003
From: xiarcel at prodigy.net (David Scott Williams)
Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 07:04:49 -0400
Subject: Python executables
References: <20030703090622.1420.48614.Mailman@mail.python.org>
Message-ID: <3F040DD1.1050008@prodigy.net>

It's been awhile since I've been on the python list... but I'll take a 
whack at this:

<SNIPPED DIGEST>

>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject:
>
> Re: Python executables?
> From:
>
> Geoff Howland <ghowland at lupineNO.SPAMgames.com>
> Date:
>
> Thu, 03 Jul 2003 06:41:18 GMT
> To:
>
> python-list at python.org
>
>
>On 27 Jun 2003 09:24:22 +0950, Ben Finney
><bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au> wrote:
>
>>>This solves the problem of giving python programs to users who don't 
>>>have python but doesn't solve the problem of the source "secrecy" 
>>>(copyright).
>>>
>>Wrong problem.  If you want to hide your source code from your users,
>>don't expect help from free software programmers.
>>
>
>I thought about this for a few days before responding (and Im sure I
>did a few other things too  ;) ), but I wanted to comment on this.
>
>
>I think everyone that uses Python wants it to gain acceptance for the
>great language that it is.  I believe that stating an attitude in this
>way is pretty counter productive in gaining any kind of wide-spread
>acceptance.
>
Unfortunately, though, I don't think you get any more tread coming to 
the Open Source developers and asking them how to hide your bits... This 
is your issue, reversed.  

>
>Most of the replies to this request didn't mention the concept of NOT
>protecting the software, but 2 did to different degrees.  As someone
>who uses and like open source software, and is slowly starting to
>release some things as open source, and ALSO someone who sells
>software and will continue in the future to sell software, I can say
>that nothing turns me off more to a community than being told what my
>goals should be.
>
I think if your goals are un-reasonable, asking a hammer salesman how 
best to use his tool to screw something into drywall is again, similary, 
counter-productive.  Scripting languages are hard to obfuscate, if not 
damned near impossible.  Even Java byte-code can be decompiled back to 
fairly decent looking source...

>
>I can understand wanting everything to be open, but thats not reality
>and it never will be.
>
I, personally, don't disagree with this.

>  Some people will always want things
>proprietary, and they will only work within systems that allow that.
>I think to be truly successful, systems will have to allow for this
>and make it easy to do.
>
>Currently Python does not make this REALLY easy to do, and in the
>privacy portion, I believe its not even possible.  This was a big
>concern for me when I released my last for-sale software, but I just
>decided I didn't care that much, and I love working in Python.
>
Often times, I think, Python caters to the developers that develop 
95-98% of the software --in house software where source code access 
isn't a problem either way...  It is good for mock-ups, for getting 
something structured and OO, and for writing software that otherwise 
doesn't yield you revenue (install, config scripts, for example)...  It 
is great for other software too... and some companies make money selling 
support for the source, many users are not hackers, even unix/linux 
users, now..

>
>Some people will care enough, and will avoid Python because the
>ability to protect their end results aren't there.
>
This loss is unfortunate, perhaps someday they will see that software 
really isn't a commodity, but a service.  

>
>So far, the only semi-workable way to do this would be something like:
>
>- Build a C program that embeds Python.
>- Encrypt all the Python script/bytecode files.
>- On runtime, decrypt the files and then execute.
>
>Optional:
>
>- Change the bytecode values in the Python source, and include your
>new Python with different bytecode values.
>
>I tried this last thing just to see if it would work, and I got some
>problems compiling initially, so just gave up, but I think in theory
>it should work.
>
>Ignoring the Optional portion, this semi-solution is not actually very
>secure.  It does however move the problem into having to decompile a C
>program, and then get it to decrypt the Python files.  Then the normal
>Python bytecode -> source.  It means any cracker will have to know
>something about both C and Python to do it, so a bit more barrier to
>entry.  It also means that in the US, the (vile and despicable, but
>present) DMCA laws will make it a much more severe crime because
>"cryptography reverse engineering" needed to be applied, and may at
>least reduce corporations from doing this for fear of
>lawsuits/criminal charges if they are exposed.
>
Perhaps you could write an open source python code obfuscator?   Or 
write it in C and make it closed source?  

>
>Anyway, this is a good bit of work and not a great solution, but is
>there anything else?  If Python is to have avenues of support in all
>walks of the software industry, will something like this be required?
>
I still think that python is often used as glue... the easy and 
straightforward style add value to the remaining (if obfuscated) bits...

>
>>From what I understand, there are also very good Java decompilers, but
>no one seems to complain about Java's lack of security.  Perhaps it is
>because it is seen as something that is really "compiled" while
>Python's loose compilation seems more whimsicle.
>
mentioned this above myself... There are obfuscators for java...but if 
someone wants it bad enough, they can get your source, or something 
reasonably close... in almost ANY language.  

>
>
>I think Python faces a lot of different public relations problems, and
>just thought I'd pipe up about one that I have looked at myself, and
>that I think most people coming into the Python world are faced with
>and have to decide whether to ignore or not.
>
>
>-Geoff Howland
>http://ludumdare.com/
>
>

-- 
~Dave 
xiarcel at prodigy.net

	                 Brainchild 
	            (and current obsession)
	        http://dustyscript.sourceforge.net/ 
	  >Dustyscript: Programming for Children<

	     ||*Other projects that I head up*||
	http://sourceforge.net/projects/cxtable 
	           >The xTable Project<<
	http://sourceforge.net/projects/moonroof  
	       >Moonroof, a Java desktop<

||**Projects that I am dedicated to (but not in charge of)*||
	http://sourceforge.net/projects/grapevine
 		>Grapevine p2p network<
		   "The Java Port"
	http://sourceforge.net/projects/symbiosis
		        >Symbiosis<

weblog: http://wildegrey.blogspot.com/

"When I think back on all the crap I learned in High School...
it's a wonder I can think at all..."
		-Paul Simon, "Kodachrome"

"...I took the road less travelled by, and that has made all the difference.."
		-Robert Frost

"Man is the only animal that blushes... or needs to"
		-Mark Twain








From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Tue Jul 29 10:14:30 2003
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 29 Jul 2003 10:14:30 -0400
Subject: Unfortunate exception on dict item assignment (and why aren't slices hashable?)
References: <mailman.1058752171.10243.python-list@python.org> <mailman.1058757391.658.python-list@python.org> <bg4lud$auo$1@panix3.panix.com> <3f2627c7$0$76067$edfadb0f@dread11.news.tele.dk>
Message-ID: <bg5vg6$2d2$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <3f2627c7$0$76067$edfadb0f at dread11.news.tele.dk>,
Anders J. Munch <andersjm at dancontrol.dk> wrote:
>"Aahz" <aahz at pythoncraft.com> wrote:
>> Jeff Epler  <jepler at unpythonic.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>I don't see what's problematic about letting slices be hashable: 
>> [...]
>>Hashing them as
>>>    hash((s.start,s.stop,s.step))
>>>might be a reasonable definition.
>> 
>> Makes sense to me.  Feel free to submit a patch to SF.  ;-)
>
>I'd rather he didn't.  I prefer Python to be able to catch the bug of
>attempting to use a dict as were it a list.  For the rare case where
>using a slice key was intentional, converting to tuple form is easy
>enough.
>
>I can see that it's good for consistency to allow hashing of slices.
>However it's bad for consistency that where alist[slice] returns a
>subsequence, adict[slice] would return a single element.

Fair enough.  Note carefully that I said "submit a patch" -- that
doesn't guarantee that the patch will be accepted, and it's quite likely
that it won't be.  But "submit a patch" is usually a good way to get
people to shut up.  ;-)
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

This is Python.  We don't care much about theory, except where it intersects 
with useful practice.  --Aahz



From gabriel.cooper at mediapulse.com  Wed Jul 23 17:02:56 2003
From: gabriel.cooper at mediapulse.com (Gabriel Cooper)
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 17:02:56 -0400
Subject: Reading Keyboard Scan Codes
In-Reply-To: <23daa443.0307231129.12d7ccf5@posting.google.com>
References: <23daa443.0307231129.12d7ccf5@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3F1EF800.20802@mediapulse.com>

Michael Bendzick wrote:

>Is there a simple way in python to read a keyboard scan code?  I'm
>working on a shell script that interfaces with a proprietary keyboard
>device (extra buttons) and need to be able to distinguish between
>those keys.
>
>Thank you
>
(In theory) the extra buttons shouldn't be any different than reading 
any other
keyboard input. Simply find out what value is being sent by the keyboard
when you hit those keys and program around those values.





From logiplex at qwest.net  Fri Jul 18 18:28:48 2003
From: logiplex at qwest.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: 18 Jul 2003 15:28:48 -0700
Subject: Threading Pool Event()
In-Reply-To: <NDZRa.273$vD1.11889@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au>
References: <0tRRa.212$vD1.8077@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au>
	 <bf8ri5$cs7$1@panix1.panix.com>  <NDZRa.273$vD1.11889@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au>
Message-ID: <1058567328.2717.46.camel@software1.logiplex.internal>

On Fri, 2003-07-18 at 14:28, Graeme Matthew wrote:
> Aahz
> 
> Thanks, ive actually been using your OSCON slides which have helped a lot.
> So it technically correct that all worker threads in a thread pool are
> either doing some work  or polling the queue to find out if there is a job
> to process ?

They don't poll the queue, they block waiting on it until something is
available.

> eg: (pseudocodish :-))
> 
> def run(self):
> 
>     while 1:
> 
>         self.lock.acquire()
> 
>         if QueueManager.HasJob:
>             job = QueueManager.GetFreeJob()
>             __processJob(job)
> 
>         self.lock.release()
> 
>  def __processJob(self):
> 
>         blah blah blah .....

More like:

def run():
    while 1:
        job = queue.get() # this blocks until something is queue.put()
        _processjob(job)


Acquiring the locks isn't necessary and ill-advised.  The Queue itself
can be thought of as a type of locking mechanism, so you raise the
possibility of a deadlock condition by nesting locks (for instance if
you also put locks around the queue.put()).

Regards,

-- 
Cliff Wells, Software Engineer
Logiplex Corporation (www.logiplex.net)
(503) 978-6726  (800) 735-0555





From irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl  Wed Jul 16 16:06:36 2003
From: irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 22:06:36 +0200
Subject: Confusing automated translators.
In-Reply-To: <bf49ch$6n7$1@news.hccnet.nl>
References: <37d6f77c.0307130932.1e3adf0d@posting.google.com> <3f11ac74$0$49101$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl> <ad052e5c.0307131718.4903430d@posting.google.com> <3F12808B.E53193B8@hotmail.com> <bf49ch$6n7$1@news.hccnet.nl>
Message-ID: <3f15b04b$0$49114$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

Anton Vredegoor wrote:

> I don't know about automated translators, but I dare any non Dutch or
> German native speaker to interprete the following valid Dutch
> sentence:
> 
> "Als achter vliegen vliegen vliegen vliegen vliegen vliegen achterna."
> 
> Anton

You should really add a comma at the right place, otherwise even Dutch
people themselves tend to get confused rather quickly too:

"Als achter vliegen vliegen vliegen, vliegen vliegen vliegen achterna."

(btw, a tip: 'vliegen' is a verb and also a noun in Dutch.)

--Irmen




From duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk  Thu Jul  3 04:14:19 2003
From: duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk (Duncan Booth)
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 08:14:19 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: does lack of type declarations make Python unsafe?
References: <3064b51d.0306151228.22c595e0@posting.google.com> <ad052e5c.0306151904.52cad325@posting.google.com> <1055736914.49032@yasure> <uwufmko7g.fsf@boost-consulting.com> <3064b51d.0306170436.2b31f9e@posting.google.com> <Xns939D905D1B2A3duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1> <usmq86vit.fsf@boost-consulting.com> <9a6d7d9d.0307020959.634ceb4e@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <Xns93AD5D872AB94duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

aaron at reportlab.com (Aaron Watters) wrote in
news:9a6d7d9d.0307020959.634ceb4e at posting.google.com: 

> David Abrahams <dave at boost-consulting.com> wrote in message
> news:<usmq86vit.fsf at boost-consulting.com>... 
>> Duncan Booth <duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk> writes:
>> 
>> I'm not saying that Python isn't a wonderful language -- it is.  It's
>> great to have the flexibility of fully dynamic typing available.  All
>> the same, I'm not going to pretend that static typing doesn't have
>> real advantages.  I seriously believe that it's better most of the
>> time, because it helps catch mistakes earlier, makes even simple code
>> easier to maintain, and makes complex code easier to write.  I would
>> trade some convenience for these other strengths.  Although it's very
>> popular around here to say that research has shown static typing
>> doesn't help, I've never seen that research, and my personal
>> experience contradicts the claim anyway.
> 
> I'm somewhere on the fence.  I've seen static typing catch errors,
> but I've also seen static typing (in java, say) make the use of a
> hash table into an exercise in code obfuscation.  I'd really like some
> sort of compromise where you could harden types incrementally.  Also
> static typing can make it more difficult for bad programmers to do
> stupid things...
> 

I didn't write any of the stuff you quoted from Dave Abrahams post. If you 
are going to trim all of my text as irrelevant to your reply, then please 
trim my name as well.

-- 
Duncan Booth                                             duncan at rcp.co.uk
int month(char *p){return(124864/((p[0]+p[1]-p[2]&0x1f)+1)%12)["\5\x8\3"
"\6\7\xb\1\x9\xa\2\0\4"];} // Who said my code was obscure?



From Erendil at aol.com  Wed Jul 30 11:24:21 2003
From: Erendil at aol.com (Erendil at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 11:24:21 EDT
Subject: special case loading modules with imp
Message-ID: <a1.3c24fd2c.2c593d25@aol.com>

Alright, this is my first post here. =) Let's try to get this right?

I have a slight problem right now. I wrote a plugin architecture in Python, 
allowing any python app or python using app to use plugins. It's very flexible 
and open-ended, except for one thing: It has to use imp to load python source 
from files. Now, using imp is not the problem really. The plugin module works 
very well as of now, and I've used it lots of my other projects. What I need 
to do now is I've read Python code out of an SQLite database into a string, and 
I need my plugin module to use imp to load that string of code as a module. 
(I don't use import because I simply store the module object in an array. makes 
it unloadable later.)

So, I just want to switch from using real files to being able to use strings. 
The goal is to get a module object that I can place in an array.

       Thanks, Rob.
-------------- next part --------------
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From bokr at oz.net  Tue Jul 29 14:52:29 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 29 Jul 2003 18:52:29 GMT
Subject: pretty printing graphs
References: <mailman.1059412614.26573.python-list@python.org> <bg4ksi$spe$0@216.39.172.122> <bg4t8a$g1f$1@216.39.172.122> <mailman.1059492942.26950.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bg6fpd$lpp$0@216.39.172.122>

On Tue, 29 Jul 2003 10:31:51 -0500, John Hunter <jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu> wrote:

>>>>>> "Bengt" == Bengt Richter <bokr at oz.net> writes:
>
>    Bengt> should be -- def showInPage(self, pageHeight=6*11,
>    Bengt> pageWidth=78): return '\n'.join(self.boxlines(pageHeight,
>    Bengt> pageWidth)) -- [...]
>
>I think I may have discovered another bug.  In the longish example below,
>the children of n2 are n20 and n21
>
>   n2.children.extend([n20, n21])
>
>These children are the branch:
>
>     |------------------+        
> +-------+          +-------+    
> |3 4 5 6|          |6 4 5 6|    
> |3 4 5 6|          |-------|    
> |-------|          |1 1 1 1|    
> |1 1 1 1|          +-------+    
> +-------+                       
>
>However, if you run your pprint on this example, they appear below the
>n4 branch.
>
I suspect the default "page" width of 78 is insufficient. I modded your
data to include a node names (e.g., see first two below)
e.g.,
>Haven't had a chance to grok the code yet -- I just came across this
>bug when using your code on a test case for a projective clustering
>neural network algorithm I'm implementing.  The example is from Cao
>and Wu, Neural Networks 15(2002) 105-120.
>
>   http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6T08-43T2MC4-1&_user=5745&_handle=W-WA-A-A-AD-MsSAYZA-UUW-AUCEZCZEBD-AZZEEDDUV-AD-U&_fmt=full&_coverDate=01%2F31%2F2002&_rdoc=10&_orig=browse&_srch=%23toc%234856%232002%23999849998%23290257!&_cdi=4856&view=c&_acct=C000001358&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=5745&md5=61f59ff40e082d56154538b436b0010e
>
>
>def test3():
    #>    n = Node(TextBox("""1 2 3 4
    n = Node(TextBox("""n
1 2 3 4
>2 3 4 5
>3 4 5 6
>4 5 6 7
>6 7 8 9
>1 2 3 4
>3 4 5 6
>2 3 4 5
>6 4 5 6
>4 2 3 1
>6 7 1 2
>4 5 6 7
>-------
>0 0 0 0
>"""))
>
    #>    n0 = Node(TextBox("""1 2 3 4
    n0 = Node(TextBox("""n0
1 2 3 4
>1 2 3 4
>4 2 3 1
>-------
>0 1 1 0
>"""))
>
[...]
>    n4.children.extend([n40, n41])
>
>    print n
To specify a page wide enough here, try

     print n.showInPage(35, 90)

With the name-modded data, I got

[11:56] C:\pywk\clp>pptree_t3.py 35  90

                                        +-------+
                                        |      n|
                                        |1 2 3 4|
                                        |2 3 4 5|
                                        |3 4 5 6|
                                        |4 5 6 7|
                                        |6 7 8 9|
                                        |1 2 3 4|
                                        |3 4 5 6|
                                        |2 3 4 5|
                                        |6 4 5 6|
                                        |4 2 3 1|
                                        |6 7 1 2|
                                        |4 5 6 7|
                                        |-------|
                                        |0 0 0 0|
                                        +-------+
           +---------------+----------------|---------------+----------------+
       +-------+       +-------+        +-------+       +-------+        +-------+
       |     n0|       |     n1|        |     n2|       |     n3|        |     n4|
       |1 2 3 4|       |2 3 4 5|        |3 4 5 6|       |4 5 6 7|        |6 7 8 9|
       |1 2 3 4|       |2 3 4 5|        |3 4 5 6|       |4 5 6 7|        |6 7 1 2|
       |4 2 3 1|       |-------|        |6 4 5 6|       |-------|        |-------|
       |-------|       |1 1 1 1|        |-------|       |1 1 1 1|        |1 1 0 0|
       |0 1 1 0|       +-------+        |0 1 1 1|       +-------+        +-------+
       +-------+                        +-------+                       +----|----+
      +----|----+                      +----|----+                  +-------+ +-------+
  +-------+ +-------+              +-------+ +-------+              |    n40| |    n41|
  |    n00| |    n01|              |    n20| |    n21|              |6 7 8 9| |6 7 1 2|
  |1 2 3 4| |4 2 3 1|              |3 4 5 6| |6 4 5 6|              |-------| |-------|
  |1 2 3 4| |-------|              |3 4 5 6| |-------|              |1 1 1 1| |1 1 1 1|
  |-------| |1 1 1 1|              |-------| |1 1 1 1|              +-------+ +-------+
  |1 1 1 1| +-------+              |1 1 1 1| +-------+
  +-------+                        +-------+

I guess it would be good to make it self-expanding if the default page is too small, or raise
an informative exception.

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From juliagoolia301 at hotmail.com  Sun Jul 13 09:42:59 2003
From: juliagoolia301 at hotmail.com (Julia Goolia)
Date: 13 Jul 2003 06:42:59 -0700
Subject: installing python library modules (general question)
Message-ID: <79ad5955.0307122013.6780fc53@posting.google.com>

Hi,

I'm sure this issue has been brought up a billion times... but I'm
having trouble installing a python module.  I have read all the
documentation for all the buzz words I know related to this problem
but to no avail.

Basically I downloaded a python module called pymad.  This module is
supposed to be simplified API to libmad (an mp3 decoder) (I want to
play mp3's from python).

I installed libmad.  The libraries appear to be in /usr/local/lib.  I
did all the distutils stuff for the module.  Now when I try to "import
mad" I get an ImportError exception:

ImportError: libmad.so.0: cannot open shared object file: No such file
or directory

I know the file /usr/local/lib/libmad.so.0 exists, but python can't
seem to find it.  I tried adding this path to LD_LIBRARY_PATH, but
that didn't help.

I guess that I just really dont' know enought about libraries and
linux (redhat 9).  I don't really know where they are supposed to go
after being compiled, and how python "loads" and uses them.

Any help is much appreciated,
Julia



From manish.j at gmx.net  Fri Jul 25 09:56:14 2003
From: manish.j at gmx.net (Manish Jethani)
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 19:26:14 +0530
Subject: How to detect typos in Python programs
Message-ID: <ZPaUa.6$gZ.133@news.oracle.com>

Hi all,

Is there a way to detect typos in a Python program, before
actually having to run it.  Let's say I have a function like this:

  def server_closed_connection():
    session.abost()

Here, abort() is actually misspelt.  The only time my program
follows this path is when the server disconnects from its
end--and that's like once in 100 sessions.  So sometimes I
release the program, people start using it, and then someone
reports this typo after 4-5 days of the release (though it's
trivial to fix manually at the user's end, or I can give a patch).

How can we detect these kinds of errors at development time?
It's not practical for me to have a test script that can make
the program go through all (most) the possible code paths.

-Manish

-- 
Manish Jethani (manish.j at gmx.net)
phone (work) +91-80-51073488





From anand_soliton at yahoo.com  Tue Jul 22 20:54:21 2003
From: anand_soliton at yahoo.com (Anand)
Date: 22 Jul 2003 17:54:21 -0700
Subject: wxPython looses function "wxPython.wx.miscc"
Message-ID: <3f5dc178.0307221405.db06016@posting.google.com>

I am calling a python script from LabVIEW. This is achieved by making
a dll call to python22.dll. It works perfectly well for most of my
code. I now want to throwup dialog boxes from python. It works just
fine if i run the code once.

but when i call the same piece of code the second time,
wxPython.wx.miscc does not exist for some reason. I dont know how this
gets deleted. I guess this happens during some kind of clean up. The
code that i use for showing a dialog box is as follows:

from wxPython.wx import *
            app = wxPySimpleApp()
            dlg = wxMessageDialog(None, Text,
                          'A Message Box', wxOK | wxICON_INFORMATION)
                          #wxYES_NO | wxNO_DEFAULT | wxCANCEL |
wxICON_INFORMATION)
            dlg.ShowModal()
            dlg.Destroy()
            app.MainLoop()

when i call it the second time i get the following error:

line 1139, in showDialog
    from wxPython.wx import *
  File "C:\PROGRA~1\Python22\lib\site-packages\wxPython\wx.py", line
4, in ?
    from misc import *
  File "C:\PROGRA~1\Python22\Lib\site-packages\wxPython\misc.py", line
2, in ?
    import miscc
ImportError: No module named miscc

     is there a solution? What is really happening? i am new to
WxPython.



From claird at lairds.com  Tue Jul 22 12:44:04 2003
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 16:44:04 -0000
Subject: How do I get info on an exception ?
References: <fc07672ed11f5dcad539bcf9bf0d051f@news.1usenet.com> <U2NRa.7475$7O.275@nwrdny01.gnilink.net> <vhh3kss6ailjf9@corp.supernews.com> <qbySa.19290$7O.15283@nwrdny01.gnilink.net>
Message-ID: <vhqqekoa2osu77@corp.supernews.com>

Raymond Hettinger <python at rcn.com> wrote:
>> >You could catch it with:
>> >
>> >            except socket.herror, inst:
>> >                  print inst.args
>> >
>> >or more broadly with:
>> >
>> >             except socket.error, (errno, string_message):
>> >                   print code, message
>> >
>> >
>> >> More importantly, where is the answer documented that I should
>> >> have looked?
>> >
>> >The list of possible socket exceptions is in the docs for sockets.
>> >It also describes the (errno, string) return tuple value of inst.args.
>> .
>> .
>> .
>> True.
>>
>> But unsatisfying--at least to me.
>
>Submit a patch.
			.
			.
			.
I deserved that.

There was more to my post, of course.  Part of what I was trying to
express is that exception interfaces are almost always relegated to
a footnote, with only a generalized description, even in the frequent
case that a method's exceptions are more complicated than its invoca-
tions.

Rather than tilt at the collection of all such windmills, I want to
first understand better why this is, and what response is appropriate.
To summarize:  I don't know what patch is the right one.  I also
thought it only fair to warn Mr. July that things are indeed more dif-
ficult than we were explaining, even though I didn't feel up to 
detailing the difficulties.

So, Raymond, do you have general guidelines for how you think excep-
tions should be documented?
-- 

Cameron Laird <Cameron at Lairds.com>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
Personal:  http://phaseit.net/claird/home.html



From ianb at colorstudy.com  Sun Jul  6 20:14:26 2003
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: 06 Jul 2003 19:14:26 -0500
Subject: Newbie Question: Abstract Class in Python
In-Reply-To: <007001c3441b$d8eb7060$2a523942@homebass1>
References: <00ec01c34050$49ab4bb0$6401a8c0@boxen>
	 <007001c3441b$d8eb7060$2a523942@homebass1>
Message-ID: <1057536865.514.278.camel@lothlorien>

On Sun, 2003-07-06 at 19:08, Kevin Bass wrote:
> I am new to Python and want to know how to implement an abstract class? I
> have read through different books and I have no found this information.
> Thanks!

There's no distinction between abstract and concrete classes in Python. 
So, say, you Figure class with a Square and a Circle subclass, you'd
simply do:

class Figure:
    ...

class Square(Figure):
    ...

class Circle(Figure):
    ...

I guess if you really wanted to be sure someone didn't try to
instantiate Figure, you could add something like:

class Figure:
    def __init__(self):
        assert self.__class__ is not Figure, \
            'Figure is an abstract class, do not instantiate it'






From rganesan at myrealbox.com  Thu Jul 10 06:42:04 2003
From: rganesan at myrealbox.com (Ganesan R)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 16:12:04 +0530
Subject: Python vs PHP
References: <mailman.1057574470.1750.python-list@python.org> <kmolgv4mp12o71ocion7ra0m2s9fcrqjdk@4ax.com> <3F0D2827.4070501@mxm.dk> <ou7k6q90f3.fsf@andlx-anamika.cisco.com> <3F0D3E8A.3080204@mxm.dk>
Message-ID: <ouy8z67jer.fsf@andlx-anamika.cisco.com>

>>>>> "Max" == Max M <maxm at mxm.dk> writes:

> Ganesan R wrote:
>> How about the fact if you want something simpler than Zope you
>> cannot point
>> to a single framework and say use this one?

> That's right. But without a framework, you are about on par with
> PHP. Only with a better language and better libraries.

You are probably right.  I only given a casual look at PHP, so
I can't comment on the language, but I believe you :-). However, 
PHP does come with a default (and only) web framework. This
obviously makes it easy to get started than to experiment with
Spyce or CherryPy or Cheetah or WebWare or any of the twenty
different alternatives.

Looking at it from the perspective of a PHP developer who's
looking into Python as an alternative. Python doesn't provides
her an out of the box solution yet. Think about what the
bewildering list of choices mean to her. This is not only issue
for development but also for deployment.

Ganesan

-- 
Ganesan R (rganesan at debian dot org) | http://www.debian.org/~rganesan/
1024D/5D8C12EA, fingerprint F361 84F1 8D82 32E7 1832  6798 15E0 02BA 5D8C 12EA



From adalke at mindspring.com  Thu Jul 31 17:35:33 2003
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 15:35:33 -0600
Subject: Is there a standard module library function to access /etc/passwd or /etc/group
References: <16469f07.0307300416.351ba776@posting.google.com> <m2vftkw5um.fsf@host200-null.null.bellsouth.net> <16469f07.0307301458.59e73736@posting.google.com> <bg9u4b$dc8$1@slb2.atl.mindspring.net> <mailman.1059649967.26720.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bgc1v4$dua$1@slb5.atl.mindspring.net>

Steven Taschuk:
> And don't forget the full-text searching capabilities at pydoc.org.

Can't forgot something I didn't know about ;)

Hmmm,  my search for "xmlrpc server" fails but "xml-rpc server" is
successful.

Any idea when it'll be updated for 2.3?

                    Andrew
                    dalke at dalkescientific.com





From b_mcerlean at yahoo.com  Fri Jul 18 12:03:25 2003
From: b_mcerlean at yahoo.com (Brian McErlean)
Date: 18 Jul 2003 09:03:25 -0700
Subject: A challenge to the ASCII proponents.
References: <mailman.1058278343.23104.python-list@python.org> <bf167a$pvt$1@panix2.panix.com> <ufzl7rdno.fsf@online.no> <3F142A58.80426AA4@hotmail.com> <2259b0e2.0307161620.4a9353f1@posting.google.com> <Xns93BB246FDDBCFJanC@213.118.75.80> <3F168011.3AEB3EFC@hotmail.com> <3F172442.2040907@v.loewis.de> <3F17C1D4.1A70703A@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <f040c4f9.0307180803.4bd020bf@posting.google.com>

Alan Kennedy <alanmk at hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<3F17C1D4.1A70703A at hotmail.com>...
> "Martin v. Loewis" wrote:
> 
> > So what do you think about this message?:
> > 
> > ????????????????
> > 
> > Look Ma, no markup. And not every character uses two bytes, either.
> > And I can use Umlauts (??????) and Arabic (????????.????????????)
> > if I want to.
> 
> Martin,
> 
> I can see from other people's messages that this has been successful
> for some people with modern software.
> 
> However, it failed for me on my old Netscape 4.x Messenger. Which is
> acceptable, I suppose, because I intentionally use ancient email and
> usenet software. It is also worth noting that although my poor old
> usenet client failed to display the sequence of characters, the
> "Navigator" component to which it belongs correctly displayed the
> greek text when fed Bengt's "gignooskoo.html" file (although it failed
> on my xml snippet).
> 
> More worrying however is the failure of modern browsers to display the
> characters when accessed through Google Groups.
> 
> >http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=3F172442.2040907%40v.loewis.de
> 
> I tried to view this in IE6.0 and Netscape 6.2, and all I saw was 
> "?????s??".
> 
> Whereas that thread still shows my XML snippet intact, still
> copy&paste-able.
> 
> kind regards,

I saw the same as you with that URL, but viewing the thread in google,
or going to the link it gave for "View this article only":
http://groups.google.com/groups?dq=&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&selm=3F172442.2040907%40v.loewis.de

displayed OK (Using Mozilla firebird 0.6)

The key difference seems to be the "oe=UTF-8" argument in the URL. 
Adding this to your URL displays it correctly.



From crewr at daydots.com  Fri Jul 18 15:42:06 2003
From: crewr at daydots.com (Crew Reynolds)
Date: 18 Jul 2003 12:42:06 -0700
Subject: Python dictionary syntax, need help
Message-ID: <56ba0aea.0307181142.7401aa02@posting.google.com>

I want to create a dictionary of note on/off timings and access it by
the name of the object. The following code works for one row.

a = "Hammer1" 
b = [5,45,45,45,45,50,55,57,59,61,60,59] 

notes = {a:b} 
print notes["Hammer1"][3] 
>>> 45 

The problem is, I want to load the data from a file to populate
variables a and b and build a dictionary for "Hammer1" thru
"Hammer10". That way, I can stick the name of the object in the array
index and receive a list of note timings that I can index with an
ordinal as in the above example.

This is straight Python syntax but I'm hoping someone has done this or
understands the syntax better than I.

Thanks! Alternative solutions to this concept would be greatly
appreciated.



From andre.lerche at update.com  Thu Jul 10 14:53:24 2003
From: andre.lerche at update.com (Andre Lerche)
Date: 10 Jul 2003 11:53:24 -0700
Subject: treeview / pygtk problem
Message-ID: <eafaf631.0307101053.34cfa08f@posting.google.com>

Hi list,

I am quite new to Python and try to learn Python with a small pygtk
program. I am facing a problem which I am unable to solve for myself.
I think I have read the documentation and some samples, but however
I cannot find my mistake, so hopefully someone can help me with a
short hint. This is a small sample application which demonstrates
my problem:

import gtk as g
import gobject

window = g.Window ()
window.connect ('delete_event', g.mainquit)
scrolledwin = g.ScrolledWindow ()
renderer = g.CellRendererText ()
col1 = g.TreeViewColumn ("col 1", renderer, text=1)
col2 = g.TreeViewColumn ("col 2", renderer, text=1)
model = g.ListStore (gobject.TYPE_STRING, gobject.TYPE_STRING)
view = g.TreeView ()
view.set_model (model)
view.set_headers_visible (1)
view.append_column(col1)
view.append_column(col2)

scrolledwin.add (view)
window.add (scrolledwin)
window.show_all ()

iter = model.append ()
# -- Problem -- #
model.set (iter, 0, "foo", 1, "bar")
# ------------- #
g.mainloop ()

I thought, with the marked model.set... I can set the first row in my
treeview to col1 = foo and col2 = bar. But, if I execute the script
the 2 columns are set to bar.

Where is my mistake? I am using Python 2.2.2 on RedHat 9.

Thanks,

Andre



From max at alcyone.com  Wed Jul  2 03:14:04 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 00:14:04 -0700
Subject: arbitrary long integer aritmetics
References: <bdtv1s$22dm$1@otis.netspace.net.au>
Message-ID: <3F02863C.31E931C9@alcyone.com>

Leo wrote:

> is there a python module around allow using arbitrary long integers?
> 
> i.e. the result of an integer operation is as long as necessary, so
> that a*b
> never produces an overflow error. (but rather an out of memory error
> ;-) )

Long (arbitrary precision) integers are a _builtin type_ in Python:

>>> 10
10
>>> 10L
10L
>>> type(10L)
<type 'long'>
>>> 2L**64L
18446744073709551616L
>>> 10L**100L
10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000L

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ The death rate is a constant one hundred per cent.
\__/  Camden Benares



From http  Mon Jul 21 03:44:44 2003
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 21 Jul 2003 00:44:44 -0700
Subject: Electronic voting with free software
References: <P9DSa.111436$Io.9552373@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <bff6jb$e8goe$1@ID-67890.news.uni-berlin.de> <slrnbhma55.si4.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local> <gGMSa.112403$Io.9622843@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <7x1xwknx1v.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

"Alan Dechert" <adechert at earthlink.net> writes:
> Our project incorporates a proposal for Remote Attended Internet Voting to
> replace the various existing absentee voting methods employed today.

I wouldn't want to use the public internet that way.  It sounds like
an invitation to launch DOS attacks against the parts of the network
where one's political opponents live.  I don't see the need for any
network connection as long as the election info can be delivered to
all the polling places before the election starts.  If every election
can be enrolled in an FEC database a few weeks before election day
(that means the database has all the info that would get printed on a
ballot), then the whole database can get dumped to CD-ROM or DVD-ROM
and shipped to all the polling places in time for the election, no
internet needed.



From daniel.dittmar at sap.com  Fri Jul 18 08:14:15 2003
From: daniel.dittmar at sap.com (Daniel Dittmar)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 14:14:15 +0200
Subject: feature request: a better str.endswith
References: <2259b0e2.0307180401.5dae02f2@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bf8oap$j54$1@news1.wdf.sap-ag.de>

Michele Simionato wrote:
> I often feel the need to extend  the string method ".endswith" to
> tuple arguments, in such a way to automatically check for multiple
> endings. For instance, here is a typical use case:
>
> if filename.endswith(('.jpg','.jpeg','.gif','.png')):
>     print "This is a valid image file"

In your special case:

import os

if os.path.splitext (filename) [1] in ['.jpg','.jpeg','.gif','.png']:
    print "This is a valid image file"

perhaps even os.path.splitext (filename) [1].lower ()
for filesystems that are not case sensitive.

Daniel








From chrisperkins37 at hotmail.com  Mon Jul 21 16:20:43 2003
From: chrisperkins37 at hotmail.com (Chris Perkins)
Date: 21 Jul 2003 13:20:43 -0700
Subject: recognizing empty iterators
References: <2259b0e2.0307210626.11a1bbf1@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <45228044.0307211220.7590d7e9@posting.google.com>

mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato) wrote in message 

> I realized that I don't know a satisfactory way to check if an
> iterator is empty. In other words I am looking for an
> "isempty" function to use in "if" statements such as
> 
> if isempty(iterator):
>    do_something()
> 
> without side effects.
> 


In general, it is impossible to test whether an iterator is exhausted.
For example, how would you test the following:

import random
def am_i_empty():
	while random.choice((True,False)):
		yield 42
	return

So you have to call "next" - there's no way around it. You just need a
wrapper to cache the value:

class checkable_iter:
	def __init__(self,it):
		self.it = iter(it)
		self.cached = []
	def isempty(self):
		if self.cached:
			return False
		try:
			self.cached.append(self.it.next())
			return False
		except StopIteration:
			return True
	def next(self):
		if self.cached:
			return self.cached.pop()
		return self.it.next()


>>> it = checkable_iter(am_i_empty())
>>> it.isempty()
False
>>> it.next()
42
>>> it.isempty()
True
>>> it.next()
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
StopIteration

Chris



From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Jul  4 23:32:46 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 23:32:46 -0400
Subject: RTS/CTS and DTR/DTS control
References: <pan.2003.07.04.19.37.02.310028@kordik.net> <pan.2003.07.04.23.44.30.894302@kordik.net> <3F060F8D.94E47DCD@engcorp.com> <pan.2003.07.05.02.34.17.509445@kordik.net> <3F064661.33614890@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <3F0646DE.6344484E@engcorp.com>

Peter Hansen wrote:
> 
> A quick search again with Google using TIOCMSET and TIOCM_CTS and a bunch
> of others finally led to this, which might be the best yet, and includes
> some constant definitions that might let you get something working, if
> this doesn't directly solve your problem:
> 
> http://sparc.dnsalias.net/Python_stuff/PosixSerial.py

Look at the main site... you might find something else of interest there. <wink>

-Peter



From strombrg at dcs.nac.uci.edu  Wed Jul  9 17:42:50 2003
From: strombrg at dcs.nac.uci.edu (Dan Stromberg)
Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 14:42:50 -0700
Subject: syslogd?
Message-ID: <pan.2003.07.09.14.42.49.648450.4119@dcs.nac.uci.edu>

Does anyone know of a syslogd (server side, not a client) implementation
in python?

I need something that'll help me ditch a particular kind of message
generated from the connections of a particular host (nagios), and the most
suitable thing I see on freshmeat appears to be in perl: metalog.  Sigh.
Perl again.

Anyone?



From op73418 at mail.telepac.pt  Wed Jul  9 13:06:36 2003
From: op73418 at mail.telepac.pt (Gonçalo Rodrigues)
Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 18:06:36 +0100
Subject: QUESTION
References: <mailman.1057759874.18441.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cpiogvgajh0a2f6e1h8dcu405e07qt17at@4ax.com>

On Wed, 9 Jul 2003 10:09:41 EDT, Matt5883 at aol.com wrote:

>
>What is python 2.1.1?  How did it get on my computer? Is it a necessary 
>program?  Can I safely delete it/remove it?  If so how?  I do not recall 
>downloading it.  Does it come bundled with some other program? Maybe one of my kids did 
>it.  I do not see enough information on your site to make these 
>determinations.  I have a Compaq 5184 with OEM Win 98 installed...I do not ever recall 
>seeing "python" in the programs.  I have been having alot of problems with my 
>computer lately and I am removing unecessary "junk"
>Thanks,
>Matt
?
This is the funniest post I have seen in weeks. Involuntary humour
maybe, but thanks a lot anyway for giving me a good frame-shaking
laugh -- I was needing that.

With my best regards,
G. Rodrigues



From Matt5883 at aol.com  Wed Jul  9 10:09:41 2003
From: Matt5883 at aol.com (Matt5883 at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 10:09:41 EDT
Subject: QUESTION
Message-ID: <4e.1efa9c3f.2c3d7c25@aol.com>

What is python 2.1.1?  How did it get on my computer? Is it a necessary 
program?  Can I safely delete it/remove it?  If so how?  I do not recall 
downloading it.  Does it come bundled with some other program? Maybe one of my kids did 
it.  I do not see enough information on your site to make these 
determinations.  I have a Compaq 5184 with OEM Win 98 installed...I do not ever recall 
seeing "python" in the programs.  I have been having alot of problems with my 
computer lately and I am removing unecessary "junk"
Thanks,
Matt




From simonb at webone.com.au  Fri Jul 11 02:49:27 2003
From: simonb at webone.com.au (Simon Burton)
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 16:49:27 +1000
Subject: text file edit object
Message-ID: <pan.2003.07.11.06.49.25.666636@webone.com.au>

# Needed to edit a text file like a list:

file = TextFile( "foo.txt" )
del file[:-10] # remove last 10 lines
file.save()

# Ended up writing this:

#!/usr/bin/env python

from tempfile import mktemp
import shutil
import sys

class TextFile(list):
  def __init__(self,name):
    file = open( name )
    self[:] = file.readlines()
    self.name = name
  def save(self):
    temp = mktemp()
    file = open( temp, "w" )
    file.writelines( self )
    file.close()
    #tgt = "_"+self.name
    tgt = self.name
    #print temp, tgt
    shutil.copy( temp, tgt )


# Is there Another Way?

# Simon Burton.




From m at moshez.org  Wed Jul 16 07:05:51 2003
From: m at moshez.org (Moshe Zadka)
Date: 16 Jul 2003 11:05:51 -0000
Subject: Testers wanted - new Python DHTML framework
In-Reply-To: <pan.2003.07.16.10.06.37.385678@127.0.0.1>
References: <pan.2003.07.16.10.06.37.385678@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <20030716110551.3667.qmail@green.zadka.com>

On Wed, 16 Jul 2003, David McNab <postmaster at 127.0.0.1> wrote:

>  - easy to learn and use

Have you demonstrated it? Did you give the documentation to someone,
and had him writing useful software? Or is this just an assumption
based on the fact that you find it easy to use, and did not have
to learn it?

>  - lets you build your pages with a simple, intuitive and coherent
>    document object model (DOM)

Is your DOM more simple, intuitive and coherent than minidom? microdom?
DOM is usually used in reference to the W3C standard. If you deviate
from the standard, it's probably best not to call what you have "DOM".

>  - extremely extensible

Did you try to extend it, and are reporting success? With two different
extension directions? Or is this, again, an assumption?

> , lends itself well to templating

You mean each person has to implement templating on his own? Or does
it have a templating system?

>  - oersistent datastore that is stored on browser as compressed cookes.
>    secured via hmac/sha1, can store 10-25k of data on browser.

That probably depends on the browser. The standard states:
'''
      * at least 4096 bytes per cookie (as measured by the size of the
        characters that comprise the cookie non-terminal in the syntax
        description of the Set-Cookie header)
'''
which means that cookies might get cut off or not stored at all by
the client. You might be splitting the cookies off transparently, which
should let you go up to 80k, but would probably make the job of anyone
wanting to send his own cookies hard.

The standard also says, however,
'''
Applications should use as few and as small cookies as possible, and they
should cope gracefully with the loss of a cookie. 
'''
[All quotes are from http://www.cis.ohio-state.edu/cgi-bin/rfc/rfc2109.html]

>    Accessed in
>    python code by simply reading and setting attributes of an object

It also matters, probably, that you use a secure RNG generator for the
"secret" in the sha1/hmac schemes, otherwise a malicious client can still
force you to execute code. The RNG in Python, for example, is
'''
        if a is None:
            # Initialize from current time
            import time
            a = long(time.time() * 256)
'''
Since your server graciously sends the time, then if this is done via
CGI the client can try guessing several values for the time. CGI applications
usually run less than five seconds, so the client can even perform a brute
force attack.

> All feedback gratefully received.

Enjoy!
-- 
Moshe Zadka -- http://moshez.org/
Buffy: I don't like you hanging out with someone that... short.
Riley: Yeah, a lot of young people nowadays are experimenting with shortness.
Agile Programming Language -- http://www.python.org/




From intentionally at blank.co.uk  Sun Jul 13 12:01:32 2003
From: intentionally at blank.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 17:01:32 +0100
Subject: removing spaces from front and end of filenames
References: <beqdf0$m2q$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <3F10BABB.D548961B@alcyone.com> <93f5c5e9.0307130744.7e9d8377@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <7mv2hvgm2k16h761tui5j7jikbd4l4etqd@4ax.com>

On 13 Jul 2003 08:44:05 -0700, hokiegal99 at hotmail.com (hokiegal99)
wrote:

>Erik Max Francis <max at alcyone.com> wrote in message news:<3F10BABB.D548961B at alcyone.com>...
>> hokiegal99 wrote:
>> 
>> > This script works as I expect, except for the last section. I want the
>> > last section to actually remove all spaces from the front and/or end
>> > of
>> > filenames. For example, a file that was named "  test  " would be
>> > renamed "test" (the 2 spaces before and after the filename removed).
>> > Any
>> > suggestions on how to do this?
>> 
>> That's what the .strip method, which is what you're using, does.  If
>> it's not working for you you're doing something else wrong.
>
>for root, dirs, files in os.walk('/home/rbt/scripts'):
>     for file in files:
>         fname = (file)
>         fname = fname.strip( )
>print fname
>
>When I print fname, it prints the filenames w/o spaces (a file named "
>test " looks like "test"), but when I ls the actual files in the
>directory they still contain spaces at both ends. That's what I don't
>understand. It seems that .strip is ready to remove the spaces, but
>that it needs one more step to actually do so. Any ideas?

If you mean looking at the list, the stripped results aren't in there
because you didn't put them there. See my other reply.

If you literally mean 'in the directory' (ie looking using a file
browser) you need to do yet another step - to apply the stripped names
back to the files using the 'os.rename' function. I'm not familiar
with os.walk and can't find the documentation, so the following is
probably wrong, but I'd suggest something like...

for root, dirs, files in os.walk('/home/rbt/scripts'):
  for file in files:
    os.rename(file, file.strip ())

This does seem very unlikely, though.




From bokr at oz.net  Mon Jul 14 14:16:08 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 14 Jul 2003 18:16:08 GMT
Subject: anything like C++ references?
References: <13t0hvsb7idh0g6ac3upe5k0qd6flc17ah@4ax.com>  <lq-cnWRG9rRuMIyiXTWJjQ@comcast.com>  <b8c3hvsesjoumiboobml3nsnajtha99mp1@4ax.com>  <mailman.1058126720.6756.python-list@python.org>  <bet17l$gdp$1@panix3.panix.com> <mailman.1058150840.26704.python-list@python.org> <1058154004.286325@yasure>
Message-ID: <beus18$59q$0@216.39.172.122>

On Mon, 14 Jul 2003 03:40:05 -0000, "Donn Cave" <donn at drizzle.com> wrote:

>On Sun, 2003-07-13 at 20:32, Aahz wrote:
>> In article <mailman.1058126720.6756.python-list at python.org>,
>|> Ian Bicking  <ianb at colorstudy.com> wrote:
>|>>
>|>> (Admittedly, some confusion may occur because these very different
>|>> operations use the same syntax:
>|>>
>|>>  x = 10
>|>>  x[0] = 10
>|>>  obj.x = 10
>|>>
>|>> The second and third are entirely different from the first.)
>|> 
>|> No, they aren't.  They are precisely the same; they just have different
>|> assignment targets.
>|
>| Sure they are different.  The first is a primitive operation binding the
>| variable x.  The second gets x, and calls x.__setitem__(0, 10), and the
>| third is equivalent to setattr(obj, 'x', 10).
Which might turn out to be equivalent to object.__setattr__(obj, 'x', 10)
or obj.__setattribute__('x', 10) or obj.__class__.__dict__['x'].fset(obj, 10) or ...

It depends on what you mean by 'targets'. I argued that the three left hand
expressions all *ultimately* result in some machine level pointer variable being set
in some object's internal representation to point to the representation of the object
resulting from evaluating the right hand side, and in that sense all the assignments
have the same ultimate semantics. Some pointer in some composite object is set to point
to another object.

Depending on the left hand object actually involved, we use different expressions to
retrieve the pointer (and often you have a choice, e.g., x.y or x.__dict__['y'] or getattr(x,'y')
or vars(x).get('y') etc., some of which might not be valid. Even plain x might sometimes be
retrieved by sys._getframe().f_locals.get('x').

>
>I wonder if this is a good example of a mutability thing that really
>is kind of missing to the detriment of Python.
>
>If you want to support user-implemented sequences (as Python does)
>but make Aahz's ``precisely the same'' assertion true in the sense
>you're taking it - then I think the user-implemented indexing function
>would have to return a reference to the index location.
>

I guess you could define something like your *loc below, but you'd have to be
willing to spell it loc.star when you used it.

class Loc(object): #XXX# untested !!
    def __init__(self, theArray, theItem=0): self._theArray=theArray; self._theItem=theItem
    def _get_it(self): return self._theArray[self._theItem]
    def _set_it(self,v): self._theArray[self._theItem] = v
    star = property(_get_it, _set_it)

>   class UserArray:
>       ...
>       def __item__(self, index):
            return Loc(self, index)
>           return &self.internal_array[index]
>
>   userArray[5] = 1
>   (python internal)
>       loc = UserArray.__item__(userArray, 5)
        loc.star = 1
>       *loc = 1
>
>   if userArray[6] == 
>   (python internal)
>       loc = UserArray.__item__(userArray, 6)
        return loc.star 
>       return *loc
>
>There are other places where instead we use some kludge with a
>mutable container type, but in this case I don't think there's
>a way to get around it.  So whether we like the idea or not,
>assignment to a user-implemented sequence doesn't have to involve
>any assignment at all, because Python lacks the "pointer" type
>(or "target" type, if you prefer) that would be required to
>implement that.

Or you could say the implementation is internal and you have
to use the right spellings to effect the semantics indirectly.
I.e., op[i]=newitem spells *p = newitem internally (names obviously not directly related):

int
PyList_SetItem(register PyObject *op, register int i,
               register PyObject *newitem)
{
    ...
    p = ((PyListObject *)op) -> ob_item + i;
    olditem = *p;
    *p = newitem;
    Py_XDECREF(olditem);
    return 0;
}

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From LogiplexSoftware at earthlink.net  Tue Jul 15 14:33:51 2003
From: LogiplexSoftware at earthlink.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: 15 Jul 2003 11:33:51 -0700
Subject: Regarding Thread pooling
In-Reply-To: <007801c34ac0$f166faa0$31001eac@ud.cybage.com>
References: <007801c34ac0$f166faa0$31001eac@ud.cybage.com>
Message-ID: <1058294031.1563.20.camel@software1.logiplex.internal>

On Tue, 2003-07-15 at 04:05, sujata wrote:
> Hi,
>         I have a query regarding threads.
> Is it possible to create thread pools in python.i.e. create threads
> and then retrieve the memory allocated to it so that the same threads
> can be used over and over again rather than creating new threads each
> time i wish to execute functions many times. If its possible plz do
> let me know how to do so.
> Can one have control over memory this way?

Not exactly in the terms you put it in, but yes, more or less.  Use a
Queue (see the standard library) and have your pool of threads wait on
it.  When there's work to be done, put it on the queue.

-- 
Cliff Wells, Software Engineer
Logiplex Corporation (www.logiplex.net)
(503) 978-6726  (800) 735-0555





From tzot at sil-tec.gr  Fri Jul 18 10:24:48 2003
From: tzot at sil-tec.gr (Christos TZOTZIOY Georgiou)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 17:24:48 +0300
Subject: Unicode question
References: <mailman.1058456911.22551.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <6f0ghvksjno3nts08n553ufq2gq3uavi6l@4ax.com>

On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 17:47:30 +0200, rumours say that Gerhard H?ring
<gh at ghaering.de> might have written:

>>>> u"???"
>u'\x84\x94\x81'
>
>(Python 2.2.3/2.3b2; sys.getdefaultencoding() == "ascii")
>
>Why does this work?
>
>Does Python guess which encoding I mean? I thought Python should refuse 
>to guess :-)

Same here, it assumes iso8859-1, which has nothing to do with my
Windows, Linux and Irix systems (ie Windows has cp1253, and I tried Irix
and Linux pythons with el_GR settings).
-- 
TZOTZIOY, I speak England very best,
Microsoft Security Alert: the Matrix began as open source.



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Tue Jul  1 00:13:43 2003
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 00:13:43 -0400
Subject: Suggesting for overloading the assign operator
References: <6f03c4a5.0306301931.3f15fbb7@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <coqdnfH2G47kl5yiXTWJkA@comcast.com>

"Rim" <rimbalaya at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:6f03c4a5.0306301931.3f15fbb7 at posting.google.com...
> Hi,
>
> I have been thinking about how to overload the assign operation '='.

Assignment is a statement, not an operator, and therefore not
overloadable .  This is an intentional design decision that GvR will
not change.

TJR





From pinard at iro.umontreal.ca  Wed Jul 23 18:10:25 2003
From: pinard at iro.umontreal.ca (=?iso-8859-1?q?Fran=E7ois_Pinard?=)
Date: 23 Jul 2003 18:10:25 -0400
Subject: Reading Keyboard Scan Codes
In-Reply-To: <23daa443.0307231129.12d7ccf5@posting.google.com>
References: <23daa443.0307231129.12d7ccf5@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <oqfzkwyjvy.fsf@titan.progiciels-bpi.ca>

[Michael Bendzick]

> Is there a simple way in python to read a keyboard scan code?  I'm working
> on a shell script that interfaces with a proprietary keyboard device
> (extra buttons) and need to be able to distinguish between those keys.

Within Linux in console mode, you merely do:

    os.system('kbd_mode -k')

to read key codes, which might be what you want, or:

    os.system('kbd_mode -s')

to really read raw scan codes.  To get back on your feet, do:

    os.system('kbd_mode -a')

Beware that you can easily burn yourself if your program fails to restore
normal mode, as per last example.  Use try/finally!  You should probably use
the `curses' module for preparing to read codes one byte at a time.[1]

However, I do not know if reading scan codes or key codes is easily done
within X, nor on MS-Windows.  I would like finding or discovering recipes in
this area.  So, please share your tricks in this area, if any! :-)

--------------------
[1] I was given two different C programs written originally for QNX and its
own special `term' library, to be quickly ported to Linux, without rewriting
them if possible.  To achieve this, I wrote a compatibility module in C, and
a more bulky keyboard driver module in Python, meant for key code assembly
into curses key events, and for any special keyboard processing.  The link
between all parts was made using Pyrex, and a bit of Makefile trickery...

-- 
Fran?ois Pinard   http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/~pinard




From frobozz_electric at hotmail.com  Thu Jul 17 11:14:42 2003
From: frobozz_electric at hotmail.com (Sean Ross)
Date: 17 Jul 2003 15:14:42 GMT
Subject: Co-routines
References: <g7xRa.305$fF.9914@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au> <3F16A34A.5742F54F@engcorp.com> <bf6bbd$ho3$1@driftwood.ccs.carleton.ca> <bf6eat$eko$1@driftwood.ccs.carleton.ca>
Message-ID: <bf6eh2$giq$1@driftwood.ccs.carleton.ca>

>     def _done(self):
>         return not [f for f in (f1,f2) if f.hasnext()]

# that should have been
def _done(self):
        return not [f for f in self.steppers if f.hasnext()]





From bostjan at bostjan-pc.mf.uni-lj.si  Wed Jul 23 04:25:59 2003
From: bostjan at bostjan-pc.mf.uni-lj.si (bostjan at bostjan-pc.mf.uni-lj.si)
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 08:25:59 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: pyui on Linux
Message-ID: <bflgqn$lp6$1@planja.arnes.si>


Hello !


Anybody managed to use pyui on Linux? It seems it uses WGL and AFAIK it
only runs on Win32, am I right?

B.



From fgeiger at datec.at  Tue Jul 29 12:49:12 2003
From: fgeiger at datec.at (F. GEIGER)
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 18:49:12 +0200
Subject: VideoCapture and camera settings.
References: <mailman.1059464577.7396.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3f26a509@news.swissonline.ch>

It's been a while since, but IIRC I used Paintshop Pro to config my web cam.

Cheers
Franz

"W F" <ugly_411 at hotmail.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:mailman.1059464577.7396.python-list at python.org...
> I haven't done much experimentation, so I am hoping someone will be able
to
> save me the trouble.
>
> Does anyone know how to specify quickcam settings such as exposure time
and
> gain when using snapshot in VideoCapture module?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Wes
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE*
> http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus
>
>





From news at exultants.org  Mon Jul  7 00:50:27 2003
From: news at exultants.org (Van Gale)
Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 04:50:27 GMT
Subject: python blogging software
In-Reply-To: <Xns93B0F0F1A58A2cpl19ghumspamgourmet@62.153.159.134>
References: <Xns93B0F0F1A58A2cpl19ghumspamgourmet@62.153.159.134>
Message-ID: <3F08FB71.3050707@exultants.org>

As Greg mentioned there are a few Zope products that can be used for 
weblogging:

http://plone.org
http://zwiki.org

Outside of Zope here are a few choices:

http://pyds.muensterland.org/
http://www.pycs.net/
http://www.myelin.co.nz/bzero/
http://roughingit.subtlehints.net/pyblosxom
http://pyrite.org/byline/




From mindhog at enduden.spam.filter.com  Sat Jul 26 15:55:35 2003
From: mindhog at enduden.spam.filter.com (Michael Muller)
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 15:55:35 -0400
Subject: Static typing
References: <LvdUa.905$DU.696@fe12.atl2.webusenet.com> <3f218ef1$0$27926$626a54ce@news.free.fr> <3f219c8d$1@nntp0.pdx.net>
Message-ID: <lWAUa.25680$Gw4.21886@fe06.atl2.webusenet.com>

Well, it appears that I have inadvertantly trolled c.l.p.  I humbly
apologize.  I really just wanted to know what the status of the issue
was.

FWIW, I do favor the addition of optional static typing for the two
reasons Scott described - interface documentation and optimization.

-- 
Remove the spam and filter components to get my e-mail address.




From justinjohnson at fastmail.fm  Tue Jul  8 11:00:33 2003
From: justinjohnson at fastmail.fm (Justin Johnson)
Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 09:00:33 -0600
Subject: win32service problems
In-Reply-To: <becll2$1i38$1@news.cybercity.dk>
References: <mailman.1057237985.11859.python-list@python.org> <be7iov$3cj$1@news.cybercity.dk> <mailman.1057540989.12125.python-list@python.org> <becll2$1i38$1@news.cybercity.dk>
Message-ID: <20030708150033.628BD380B7@www.fastmail.fm>

Nope, nothing like that at all.  The servers are setup the same, the
domain account is accessible from all and has the same policy settings
and is a member of the administrators group.  This is the only python
software running on the machines.

I'm pretty sure this has to do with the win2k limitations.  I'll just
have to tweak the registry and reboot the machines, which will take a
little while since these machines are actively used by people.

Thanks.
-Justin

On Mon, 7 Jul 2003 22:38:35 +0200, "Tomas Christiansen"
<toc-01-nospam at blikroer.dk> said:
> Justin Johnson wrote:
> > Windows 2000.  Aftering searching google for similar problems I'm
> > beginning to think I hit the dreaded shared section memory problem on
> > win2k.  Ugh...
> 
> You can't see any differences between the working and not-working
> servers,
> like:
>  - domain controller or not
>  - list of members of the local administrators group
>  - other services running Python
>  - ...
> 
> -------
> Tomas
> 
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 




From bignose-hates-spam at and-benfinney-does-too.id.au  Wed Jul 30 22:18:38 2003
From: bignose-hates-spam at and-benfinney-does-too.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: 31 Jul 2003 12:08:38 +0950
Subject: Misuse of <tab>
References: <3f27f0e3$1@news.broadpark.no> <3f28287e$0$103$8f4e7992@newsreader.goldengate.net> <mailman.1059614625.27756.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrnbih09e.vpm.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>

On Wed, 30 Jul 2003 18:20:51 -0700, Sean 'Shaleh' Perry wrote:
> thou shalt always use even numbered indents.

More accurately, thou shalt always use even, factor-of-8 indents.
(Making 2 and 4 the only valid indent sizes.)

Ironically, this has its origins in the standard literal tab stop being
8 (which number thou shalt not alter).  Using factor-of-8 indent sizes
means that every literal tab stop falls on an indent column.  The irony
comes from the deprecation of using literal tabs for indent at all :-)

-- 
 \      "I put instant coffee in a microwave oven and almost went back |
  `\                                       in time."  -- Steven Wright |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney <http://bignose.squidly.org/>



From news at yebu.de  Mon Jul 21 04:15:23 2003
From: news at yebu.de (Karl Scalet)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 10:15:23 +0200
Subject: Python dictionary syntax, need help
In-Reply-To: <56ba0aea.0307181142.7401aa02@posting.google.com>
References: <56ba0aea.0307181142.7401aa02@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bfg7f0$efrk2$1@ID-141451.news.uni-berlin.de>

Crew Reynolds schrieb:
> I want to create a dictionary of note on/off timings and access it by
> the name of the object. The following code works for one row.
> 
> a = "Hammer1" 
> b = [5,45,45,45,45,50,55,57,59,61,60,59] 
> 
> notes = {a:b} 
> print notes["Hammer1"][3] 
> 
>>>>45 
> 
> 
> The problem is, I want to load the data from a file to populate
> variables a and b and build a dictionary for "Hammer1" thru
> "Hammer10". That way, I can stick the name of the object in the array
> index and receive a list of note timings that I can index with an
> ordinal as in the above example.
> 
> This is straight Python syntax but I'm hoping someone has done this or
> understands the syntax better than I.
> 
> Thanks! Alternative solutions to this concept would be greatly
> appreciated.

If there is no special format required for the text file, you could
invest a bit more in typing this text file, say, 'content.inp' like:

notes['hammer1'] = [1,2,3,4]
notes['hammer2'] = [2,3,4,5]
notes['hammer3'] = [3,4,5,6]
...

which on the other hand would simplify your code to:

...
notes = {}
execfile('content.inp')
# now notes is initialized with the content

I often do configurations/initialization stuff like this,
just using legal python syntax for such files.

Of course, my approach is not far from hardcoding the content
in the first place.

Karl




From rreagan at attbi.com  Wed Jul  2 04:04:26 2003
From: rreagan at attbi.com (Russell Reagan)
Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 08:04:26 GMT
Subject: My Big Dict.
References: <mailman.1057119003.11991.python-list@python.org> <20030702073735.40293ba2.christophe.delord@free.fr> <TXvMa.9902$BM.3065756@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <emwMa.83456$R73.10319@sccrnsc04>

"drs" <drs at ecp.cc> wrote

> f = open('somefile.txt')
> d = {}
> l = f.readlines()
> for i in l:
>     a,b = i.split('!')
>     d[a] = b.strip()

I have just started learning Python, and I have never used dictionaries in
Python, and despite the fact that you used mostly non-descriptive variable
names, I can still read your code perfectly and know exactly what it does. I
think I could use dictionaries now, just from looking at your code snippet.
Python rules :-)





From csad7 at yahoo.com  Sun Jul 20 18:15:53 2003
From: csad7 at yahoo.com (christof hoeke)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 00:15:53 +0200
Subject: xml processing and sys.setdefaultencoding (more info)
References: <bfe4it$8ra$02$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <bff4ad$fl9$05$1@news.t-online.com>

hi,
first thanks for the infos. i need to try the encoding declaration in the
python module.

some more details about the problem i had (regarding the posts by Alan and
Martin):

the original problem with the app was that the Pyana transformation
complained about the string "xml" when it came over as unicode. so i used
str(xml) but that gave the usual "ordinal not in range" error when the xslt
contained e.g. german umlauts. i did not tried that before...
setting the default encoding to utf-8 fixed that. the reason is not entirely
clear to me yet though.

- the used xslt stylesheets should have been in utf-8 as i did not state an
encoding explicitly
- xslt with latin-1 (iso8859-1) encoding should work too though
- xslt contains german umlauts ??? etc.
- i did extract parts of the xslt in python strings, yes

i read the other threads about unicode and also about PEP 0263. i have not
tried to set the encoding of the python file yet. but sounds promising.
i am wondering though, if i set the python file encoding to e.g. utf-8 and
then use a stylesheet with, lets say latin-1 encoding, i still have a
mismatch, havn't i?

if you are interested in the code, download it from
http://cthedot.de/pyxsldoc/
it is my first "bigger" python project, so the code is not the best i guess
and the version which does not work is still online. i need to put on the
version with the changed default encoding.

chris



christof hoeke wrote:
> hi,
> i wrote a small application which extracts a javadoc similar
> documentation for xslt stylesheets using python, xslt and pyana.
> using non-ascii characters was a problem. so i set the defaultending
> to UTF-8 and now everything works (at least it seems so, need to do
> more testing though).
>
> it may not be the most elegant solution (according to python in a
> nutshell) but it almost seems when doing xml processing it is
> mandatory to set the default encoding. xml processing should almost
> only work with unicode strings and this seems the easiest solution.
>
> any comments on this? better ways to work
>
> thanks
> chris





From mis6 at pitt.edu  Wed Jul  2 10:23:05 2003
From: mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato)
Date: 2 Jul 2003 07:23:05 -0700
Subject: Circular Inheritance
References: <mailman.1057099023.14043.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <2259b0e2.0307020623.a4ba8c@posting.google.com>

jinal jhaveri <jhaveri at usc.edu> wrote in message news:<mailman.1057099023.14043.python-list at python.org>...
> Hi All,
> 
> I have one question regarding circular inheritance
> 
> I have 3 files
> 
> 1) A.py , having module A and some other modules
> 2) B.py having module B and some other modules
> 3) C.py having module C and some other modules
> 
> Now I want to import Module C in B.py
> 
> but C requires A.py 
> and A requires B.py
> 
> so 
> 
> B requires C
> C requires A
> A requires B
> 
> and when I try to do this using 
> 
> from ...import....
> it tells me that you cannot import this. 
> 
> So any suggestions on this?
> 
> thank you
> Jinal

In theses circumstances, I find useful the "execfile" built-in. 
With "execfile" you can split a big module with internal references
in various files. For instance you could split your module in three
files and do something like

#module M
execfile('M1.py')
execfile('M2.py')
execfile('M3.py')

   Michele



From kevin at cazabon.com  Wed Jul 30 20:31:27 2003
From: kevin at cazabon.com (Kevin Cazabon)
Date: 30 Jul 2003 17:31:27 -0700
Subject: urlretrieve a file whose name has spaces in it
References: <10caf2e2.0307291439.33d9fcc3@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <5a4226f0.0307301631.3dd0c00f@posting.google.com>

You can easily escape spaces with "%20"

as in:


urllib.urlretrieve("http://website.com/path/string string1
foo.doc".replace(" ", "%20"), "local_file")



hp at rentec.com (HP) wrote in message news:<10caf2e2.0307291439.33d9fcc3 at posting.google.com>...
> I am using urllib.urlretrieve() to download a file from a web site.
> THe trouble is that the file name has spaces in it,
> such as "string string1 foo.doc".
> 
> The statement:
> urllib.urlretrieve("http://website.com/path/string string1 foo.doc",
> "local_file");
> 
> produces local_file which contains the following one line:
> <html><head><title>Error</title></head><body>The parameter is
> incorrect. </body></html>
> 
> What is the correct way of specifying the this file in urlretrieve() ?
> 
> thanks
> HP



From adechert at earthlink.net  Wed Jul 23 15:08:12 2003
From: adechert at earthlink.net (Alan Dechert)
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 19:08:12 GMT
Subject: Voting Project Needs Python People
References: <LDVSa.14955$Mc.1126731@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <xqxwuebfyym.fsf@cola2.ca.boeing.com> <bfhhgq$5lu$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net> <xqx7k6b36r8.fsf@cola2.ca.boeing.com> <jk_Sa.113364$Io.9707082@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <7x65lv31hf.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <z8%Sa.113480$Io.9712518@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <xqxsmoyitto.fsf@cola2.ca.boeing.com> <3jhTa.115229$Io.9825106@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <bfkch9$is4$1@slb4.atl.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <w2BTa.116465$Io.9943199@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>

"Andrew Dalke" <adalke at mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:bfkch9$is4$1 at slb4.atl.mindspring.net...
> Alan Dechert:
> > catch it.  If one percent of the electronic votes were altered (evenly
> > distributed), you will find one mismatch for sure after checking only a
> > dozen or two ballots.
>
> Actually, around 70 ballots.
>
> The odds of finding one ballot to be wrong is 1%, so there's a 99%
> chance that it's unaltered.  There's a 0.99*0.99 chance that two are
> unaltered, and in general a 0.99**n chance that n are unaltered.
>
> To get even odds of noticing an error requires
>
>   0.99**n == 0.5
>   --> log(0.99)*n == log(0.5)
>
> >>> math.log(0.5) / math.log(0.99)
> 68.967563936528421
> >>>
>
> about 70 verifications.
>
 A likely story.  I actually took combinatorics and a class in statistics in
college.  But that was a long time ago.  Since then, many brain cells have
died, tragically.

BTW, do you know about cumulative binomial distribution?  I think we need to
include a tool like this to give us some "C.L" (confidence level) short of
verifying that every single paper ballot matches its electronic counterpart.

http://www.reliasoft.com/newsletter/2q2001/cumulative_binomial.htm

What I really want is a calculator.  Do you know of a free calculator for
this?  If not, could you make one? (for free, of course).

Alan Dechert





From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Sun Jul 20 07:06:42 2003
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 07:06:42 -0400
Subject: Tk mainloop()
References: <mailman.1058675670.11192.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <vhkttug73tclaa@news.supernews.com>

"Petr Evstratov" <tetra701 at mail.ru> wrote in message
news:mailman.1058675670.11192.python-list at python.org...
> Hi, I have a question: how do you execute an arbitrary function in Tk
fooBar.mainloop()?
>
> I need to change the contents of a label every second, but I think I will
also use some other functions as well...
>
> I hope that someone will answer my question, because I have been looking
for an answer for 3 days, asking people, searching Google... and still have
not found anything useful...

I'd probably use a separate thread. Can't tell you exactly how to
do it, but that's the approach I'd take.

John Roth
>
>                                    Thanks, Pete
>





From rganesan at myrealbox.com  Thu Jul 10 05:49:20 2003
From: rganesan at myrealbox.com (Ganesan R)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 15:19:20 +0530
Subject: Python vs PHP
References: <mailman.1057574470.1750.python-list@python.org> <kmolgv4mp12o71ocion7ra0m2s9fcrqjdk@4ax.com> <3F0D2827.4070501@mxm.dk>
Message-ID: <ou7k6q90f3.fsf@andlx-anamika.cisco.com>

>>>>> "Max" == Max M <maxm at mxm.dk> writes:

> Afanasiy wrote:
>> Python web development is fragmented.

> Ahem ... How os Python web development fragmented? Most of it probably
> takes place in the Zope world.

How about the fact if you want something simpler than Zope you cannot point
to a single framework and say use this one? I must admit that I haven't
actually worked with any of the web development kits. As a casual observer
and a (mostly) lurker in this news group web development does appear to be a
bit fragmented. 

I agree this is the case in the Python GUI world too. However, at least I
get the impression that wxPython, PyQT and PyGtk all are reasonably good
choices. I don't think you can say that for web development. At least not
yet.

Ganesan

-- 
Ganesan R (rganesan at debian dot org) | http://www.debian.org/~rganesan/
1024D/5D8C12EA, fingerprint F361 84F1 8D82 32E7 1832  6798 15E0 02BA 5D8C 12EA



From mwilson at the-wire.com  Mon Jul 14 12:52:47 2003
From: mwilson at the-wire.com (Mel Wilson)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 12:52:47 -0400
Subject: A few beginning questions
References: <3f129a8a$1@mail.hmgcc.gov.uk> <xqx65m59pei.fsf@cola2.ca.boeing.com>
Message-ID: <f/tE/ks/KXWT089yn@the-wire.com>

In article <xqx65m59pei.fsf at cola2.ca.boeing.com>,
Harry George <harry.g.george at boeing.com> wrote:
>"richardc" <richardc at hmgcc.gov.uk> writes:
>> Im looking for an agument parsing library (from the command line), Ive come
>> across optik and argtools.  What other ones are there are any of them any
>> good, is there a 'standard' lib for doing this.

>1. args: I use getopt, which does the job.  The idiom is:
>if __name__ == '__main__':
>    opts,pargs=getopt.getopt(sys.argv[1:],'hvd',
>                 ['help','version','debug',
>                  'bb='])
>    for opt in opts:
>        if opt[0]=='-h' or opt[0]=='--help':
>            print modname+": version="+__version__
>            usage()
>            sys.exit(0)
>        elif opt[0]=='-v' or opt[0]=='--version':
>            print modname+": version="+__version__
>            sys.exit(0)
>        elif opt[0]=='-d' or opt[0]=='--debug':
>            debug_p=1
>        elif opt[0]=='--bb':
>            opt_b=opt[1]
>

Although I really would recommend one change:


     for opt, val in opts:
         if opt in ('-h', '--help'):
             print modname + ": version=" + __version__
             usage()
             sys.exit(0)
,,,
         elif opt == '--bb':
             opt_b = val



        Regards.        Mel.



From peter at engcorp.com  Sun Jul 20 00:02:20 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 00:02:20 -0400
Subject: Python vs ...
References: <3f19dad1@news.syd.ip.net.au> <slrnbhjob9.tp.bignose-hates-spam@rose.localdomain.fake> <3f19ee33@news.syd.ip.net.au>
Message-ID: <3F1A144C.B386C7FD@engcorp.com>

Ray Smith wrote:
> 
> "Tricky" was probably a bad word ... "difficult" might be a better word.

No, "tricky" is just fine, though you really meant "tricky problem".

You _did_ say "well written piece of code", and most of us understood
what you meant without any problem. ;-)

-Peter



From shrom at admin.zzn.com  Thu Jul 31 09:58:20 2003
From: shrom at admin.zzn.com (Shrom)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 15:58:20 +0200
Subject: Retrieve source filename
Message-ID: <3f29207d$0$24768$626a54ce@news.free.fr>

Hi,

I know that you can retrieve main file name with sys.argv[0] and file name
for a module with modulename.__file__ but is there a common way to retrieve
file name for both main program and modules as the __FILE__ constant in PHP
?





From wilkSPAM at OUTflibuste.net  Mon Jul 28 15:42:59 2003
From: wilkSPAM at OUTflibuste.net (Wilk)
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 21:42:59 +0200
Subject: Python vs. Perl vs. PHP?
References: <7b454334.0307281002.41dae81b@posting.google.com> <bg3qkk$lmr$05$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <87he56bfp8.fsf@flibuste.net>

"Diez B. Roggisch" <deets_noospaam at web.de> writes:

> Fazer wrote:
>
>> Hello,
>> 
>> I am an avid user of PHP and I am just fooling around with Python for
>> now.  I originally wanted to know which one is faster.  As in, works
>> faster.  So far, I think PHP is the fastest for dynamic web-content.
>> Am I wrong?
>
> Definitely. See here:
>
> http://www.bagley.org/~doug/shootout/craps.shtml

has somebody tried to run this bench with python2.3 ?

-- 
William Dode - http://flibuste.net



From Olivier.POYEN at clf-dexia.com  Tue Jul 29 05:28:23 2003
From: Olivier.POYEN at clf-dexia.com (POYEN OP Olivier (DCL))
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 11:28:23 +0200
Subject: howto redirect stdout/stderr into a wxPython textctrl?
Message-ID: <8963D6370B323E4AA3241200F0EAF7318C100E@FCEXVEXM002.dcl.int.dexwired.net>



> -----Message d'origine-----
> De : newgene [mailto:newgene at bigfoot.com]
> Envoy? : lundi 28 juillet 2003 18:53
> ? : python-list at python.org
> Objet : howto redirect stdout/stderr into a wxPython textctrl?
> 
> 
> Hi, group,
>     I guess it is a simple question for you, but it puzzles me for a
> while.
>     I use a wxTextCtrl in my application for output result and any
> exception msg. I know I can add new msg onto wxTextCtrl by WriteText()
> method. But I have a function imported from another module and in this
> function all results are output by "print". I am wondering if I can
> redirect stdout and stderr into the wxTextCtrl object, so that all
> output from that function will be shown up on wxTextCtrl box and I
> don't need modify the current code for that function.
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> 
> Chunlei
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 


class myOutForWxText:
    def __init__(self,aWxTextCtrl):
		self.out=aWxTextCtrl

    def write(self,string):
		self.out.WriteText(string)


myout=myOutForWxText(myWxTextInstance)
import sys
sys.stdout=myout

Then, when you want to recover the real stdout
sys.sdtout=sys.__stdout__

Beware: since the sys module is imported once, all the print statemens will commit to this 'myout' things.

The point is to create an object which has a write method, and assign sys.stdout to it.


HTH,

---OPQ
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From isaac at blueapples.org  Thu Jul 31 15:31:19 2003
From: isaac at blueapples.org (Isaac Raway)
Date: 31 Jul 2003 12:31:19 -0700
Subject: Controlling a spawned process
Message-ID: <5f98b3f0.0307311131.3b4824e1@posting.google.com>

I want to start a console application on a Windows 2000 machine and
control it's I/O. pexpect is exactly what I want, but it doesn't work
on Windows.

Does anyone know of another module similar to pexpect that does work
on windows?



From fdij at oce.nl  Thu Jul 31 12:30:55 2003
From: fdij at oce.nl (Fons Dijkstra)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 18:30:55 +0200
Subject: Problem with inserting dates using mx.ODBC.Windows driver
Message-ID: <1059669056.14359@news-ext.oce.nl>

Hello,

I'm using the mx.ODBC.Windows package in order to read/write a MSAccess
database. Everything works fine apart from the DATE format handling. I'm
using the default "datetimeformat" (i.e. DATETIME_DATETIMEFORMAT) as
suggested. The date columns in the MSAccess database have "Short Date"
format.

When I read a DATE item everything works fine, like:

>>> conn = mx.ODBC.Windows.connect(database)
>>> cursor = conn.cursor()
>>> cursor.execute("SELECT * FROM table")
>>> data = cursor.fetchall()
>>> print data
[(..., <DateTime object for '2003-07-31 00:00:00.00 at address>, ...)]

But when I try to update the table I get a ProgrammingError, like:

>>> date = mx.ODBC.Windows.Date(2003, 07, 31)
>>> conn = mx.ODBC.Windows.connect(database)
>>> cursor = conn.cursor()
>>> cursor.execute("INSERT INTO table (..., DATE, ...) VALUES (..., ?,
...)", (..., date, ...))
ProgrammingError: Syntax Error in INSERT INTO statement.

Is it possible to use the mx.DateTime type for MSAccess databases? If so,
how should it be done? If not, how can I insert dates into a MSAccess
database?

Thank you in advance, Fons





From llafba at gmx.net  Thu Jul 10 13:36:16 2003
From: llafba at gmx.net (Tom)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 19:36:16 +0200
Subject: replace value of a specific position
Message-ID: <bek8ce$ok2$1@news.uni-kl.de>

Hi,

I want to replace a specific part of a string. I tried replace but this 
doesn't work the way I want it, because it checks and replaces all 
values and not the position (index).

t = '010010101001001110100101010111'
t = t.replace(t[5], '2')

This is just a bad example of what I tried. It produces this output:

212212121221221112122121212111

But I wanted:

010012101001001110100101010111

I couldn't find anything in the python library. I probably looked at the 
wrong place! :-) That's why I would appreciate your help.

Thank you very much, Tom




From davidcfox at post.harvard.edu  Wed Jul 30 16:57:04 2003
From: davidcfox at post.harvard.edu (David C. Fox)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 20:57:04 GMT
Subject: Dict to "flat" list of (key,value)
In-Reply-To: <P0WVa.13852$cF.6163@rwcrnsc53>
References: <pan.2003.07.30.19.26.18.41642@removethis.nerim.net> <P0WVa.13852$cF.6163@rwcrnsc53>
Message-ID: <wiWVa.13817$Oz4.4544@rwcrnsc54>

David C. Fox wrote:

Oops - a mistake and an omission

> 4.  and then reduce that to a list of tuples with
> 
>     reduce(operator.add, lol)

You need to import the operator module first.

>     def flatten(u):
>         if isinstance(u[1], type([])):
>             return (u[1], [u[2]])
>         return map(lambda x: (u[0], x), u[1])

I got my cases reversed - that should be "if not isinstance...




From klappnase at freenet.de  Sat Jul 19 20:20:05 2003
From: klappnase at freenet.de (klappnase)
Date: 19 Jul 2003 17:20:05 -0700
Subject: If stereo WAV file's both channels are identical, change format to mono for all files recursively
References: <mailman.1058605289.13944.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <9a410299.0307191620.7fe274ab@posting.google.com>

"Raseliarison nirinA" <nirina at mail.blueline.mg> wrote in message news:<mailman.1058605289.13944.python-list at python.org>...
> hi all,
> i found an unanswered question at
> http://www.faqts.com/knowledge_base/index.phtml/fid/538
> with possible response below. i've tried to send it at
> faqt.python but can't figure out how to edit the page. so i put it here.
> i want to kwon if this can convert all wave file. is there other
> encodage than 8 or 16 bits for .wav files?
> any bug and comment are welcome
> 
> --
> nirinA
> 
Hi,

I think there might be at least 24 bit wav-files, if you have a
soundcard that supports 24 bit, may be even more, for professional use
or so.

Regards

Michael



From http  Sun Jul 20 23:36:09 2003
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 20 Jul 2003 20:36:09 -0700
Subject: Possible use of Python for a voting machine demo project -- your feedback requested
References: <P9DSa.111436$Io.9552373@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <bff56e$8iv$1@slb9.atl.mindspring.net> <7xllus94t8.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <K_idnV09hdycrYaiRTvU2Q@speakeasy.net> <lHGSa.111792$Io.9577193@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <7x1xwk8z14.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <lNHSa.14101$Mc.1038227@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <7xn0f8a6vq.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

"Alan Dechert" <adechert at earthlink.net> writes:
> The absentee system would work very much like the poll site system.  The
> voter would see exactly the same screens with either one.  The printout
> would look exactly the same.  The ballot electronic record would wind up in
> exactly the same format as poll site ballots.  Here are some advantages
> highlighted in the proposal:
> 
> ? Voter does not need to plan
> ? Avoids mailing of absentee request as request is made and granted
> on-the-spot
> ? No need for the county to print and mail costly absentee ballot materials
> ? Tabulation of absentee votes available on Election Day
> ? Seamless integration with poll site system
> ? Secret ballot and voter anonymity preserved
> ? Greatly reduces potential for absentee vote fraud

Yes, that's much better than mail-in absentee voting.  Of course
polling stations would have to be installed at US embassies abroad,
military bases and vessels, etc.

> The most persistent type of corruption has to do with campaigns that
> overwork the absentee ballots -- helping voters make sure they vote.
> Sometimes it's a fine line.  A campaign worker might stop by an elderly
> voter to make sure s/he has mailed in the absentee ballot, and the voter
> asks for assistance -- or the campaign worker offers assistance.  How much
> assistance constitutes fraud where a voter is really not sure what to do?  I
> don't have any numbers but in 2000 a lot of older folks in Florida were
> getting assistance with obtaining and sending in their absentee ballots.

It was much worse than that, and it wasn't limited to older folks.
The Governor of Florida himself, Jeb Bush, sent letters to registered
Republicans on state letterhead encouraging them to cast illegal
absentee ballots:

  http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/nationworld/sns-flavotes.story

Xavier Suarez, the guy who was elected mayor of Miami by absentee
ballot fraud (he was thrown out of office a few weeks later when the
fraud was established) was apparently part of that operation and 
actually filled in absentee ballots for people in Miami-Dade County.

Then there was the massive doctoring of defective absentee ballot
applications--but only for one party--in Martin and Seminole counties
(a third degree felony in Florida, http://www.campaignwatch.org/semdtl.htm).

See

  http://www.failureisimpossible.com/floridafollies/absentee.htm

for links to some more stories.  Anyway you get the general idea.



From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sun Jul 13 21:43:41 2003
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 13 Jul 2003 21:43:41 -0400
Subject: anything like C++ references?
References: <000301c348c7$3c501980$21795418@dell1700> <qi13hv4s21i8mtr2e600jumm54hqs7tppu@4ax.com> <mailman.1058125699.26133.python-list@python.org> <sag3hv4vf884ed7ouu5cv8ofnopp9j1t12@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <bet1sd$ibl$1@panix3.panix.com>

In article <sag3hv4vf884ed7ouu5cv8ofnopp9j1t12 at 4ax.com>,
Stephen Horne  <intentionally at blank.co.uk> wrote:
>
>In computer science, a variable is a named binding to a value.
>Operations on that variable may rebind it to a different value, but
>values don't change behind your back. A pointer is, in effect, a value
>which indirectly refers to another (possibly anonymous) variable. A
>pointer is something you specifically request, and by doing so you
>allow that the 'variable' being indirectly referenced may be modified
>by something else that has no direct access to your pointer value (via
>your named variable or via copys or pointers-to your pointer held
>elsewhere).
>
>Python should respect that.

That's why I (and others) prefer to use "name" and "target" instead of
"variable".  Would that assuage your ire?
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"Not everything in life has a clue in front of it...."  --JMS



From db3l at fitlinxx.com  Mon Jul 21 17:06:18 2003
From: db3l at fitlinxx.com (David Bolen)
Date: 21 Jul 2003 17:06:18 -0400
Subject: Python scripting with Paint Shop Pro 8.0
References: <kl3lhvgh5iillo5g9jvff92qkc8i2022nm@4ax.com> <vhoefdfn39v19f@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <u3cgzmvxx.fsf@fitlinxx.com>

"Greg Brunet" <gregbrunet at NOSPAMsempersoft.com> writes:

> 3) Interestingly, I can't find any sign of a JascApp.* file anywhere.  I
> would expect to see a PYC or PYD given the Import command, but being a
> relative newbie myself, don't have a good understanding of how this
> could be.  But, hey - it seems to work, so I won't complain.

This would work if they "embedded" Python rather than "extending" it.
Using Python as an embedded scripting engine, the embedding
application (probably the main PSP executable) can define whatever
modules it wants as built-in modules prior to executing Python code.
The "modules" actually exist right in the executable that is starting
the Python interpreter.

If true, then it would make it less likely you could use that
functionality from an externally initiated Python script, since that
script wouldn't have started from the right environment containing
those built-in modules.

-- David



From bbeck at NOSPAM.austin.rr.com  Tue Jul 15 18:31:10 2003
From: bbeck at NOSPAM.austin.rr.com (Brandon Beck)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 22:31:10 GMT
Subject: String Manipulation
References: <2c6431ab.0307151223.4173c4ee@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <rlbeu-eaa.ln1@isomorphism.org>

I know a few people replied to this already, but here's one additional
possibility.  If the data in string1 is a file path for your platform,
then you can use the os.path module.

>>> import os.path
>>> os.path.split("aaa/bbb/ccc/dd")
('aaa/bbb/cc', 'dd')
>>> os.path.splitext("filename.ext")
('filename', '.ext')

The other suggestions will of course work, but if you data is a file
path, then using the os.path module should be a more portable solution.

Brandon



"lamar_air" <lamar_air at hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:2c6431ab.0307151223.4173c4ee at posting.google.com...
> I need a piece of code that takes a string like this string1 =
> "aaa/bbb/ccc/dd" and extracts a string containting the character after
> the last "/"
>
> So for this example the result would be "dd"
>
> like this:
> for i=0; string1.right(i) != '/'; i++
>
> result = string1.mid(i, string1.length())
>
> but in python.





From irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl  Wed Jul  2 15:46:05 2003
From: irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 21:46:05 +0200
Subject: Encoding questions
In-Reply-To: <ac7dc9b9.0307020811.47e4edf2@posting.google.com>
References: <ac7dc9b9.0307020811.47e4edf2@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3f03367a$0$49112$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

Marc wrote:

> Is there any way to see what encodings are installed on my computer,
> or a reference of the encodings distributed with Python and what each
> of them is for? I've looked at the reference for the codec module and
> imagine there's a folder full of Codec classes somewhere; is this how
> it works?

Yep, look in <python-install-dir>/Lib/encodings

I am not aware of a 'clean' way to get all available codecs from
within your python code.

> The specific problem I have is a Unicode file that contains a bullet
> character (Unicode BULLET, 2022). Ultimately, it's going to be written
> into a PDF file (via ReportLab). The default ASCII encoding doesn't
> work, which is OK; suprisingly neither does 'latin-1', yet 'cp1252'
> does work. These are just encodings I've seen somewhere. Basically,
> I'd like to know how to go about choosing the best/most appropriate
> encoding for a given application.

ASCII, latin-1 and cp1252 are just examples of *subsets* of the full
Unicode character range. An encoding that you might find useful is
UTF-8 (http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~mgk25/unicode.html).
It is widely supported and can contain any Unicode character.

If you're processing unicode texts inside your app, stick with
Python's built-in Unicode string type.

--Irmen




From adalke at mindspring.com  Wed Jul 30 22:19:48 2003
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 20:19:48 -0600
Subject: Is there a standard module library function to access /etc/passwd or /etc/group
References: <16469f07.0307300416.351ba776@posting.google.com> <m2vftkw5um.fsf@host200-null.null.bellsouth.net> <16469f07.0307301458.59e73736@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bg9u4b$dc8$1@slb2.atl.mindspring.net>

Robin Cull:
> I assure you I did, in fact it baffles me that I missed "pwd" in the
> global module index when I was scanning for "passwd".  Then I went off
> on a complete tangent and started looking through "os" and "posix" for
> some reason.  A case of "can't see the wood for the trees" I think!

When you're stuck because you don't know which module something
might be in (eg, I was just looking for XMLRPC server code in
xmlrpclib - wrong place!), try the full index at
  http://python.org/doc/current/lib/genindex.html

Even then, the obvious searches for "passwd" and "password" don't
find anything.  If you know the C-level functions are 'getpw*' then it
becomes much easier.

Easier for your search is to start with
   http://python.org/doc/current/lib/lib.html

> 8.2 pwd -- The password database

                    Andrew
                    dalke at dalkescientific.com





From mpnugent at ra.rockwell.com  Wed Jul 23 14:25:42 2003
From: mpnugent at ra.rockwell.com (Michael P. Nugent)
Date: 23 Jul 2003 11:25:42 -0700
Subject: Getting sub-objects from ADSI
Message-ID: <d89570b3.0307231025.69b573e5@posting.google.com>

How do I get the underlying values from Win::OLE=Hash(0x...) type
objects? I can do it in Perl, but not in Python.

For instance, I get

CN=Fred
<COMObject <unknown>>
<COMObject <unknown>>

when running

#! python

import pythoncom
from win32com.client import GetObject

UserPath = "LDAP://CN=Fred,OU=Two,OU=One,DC=nw,DC=home,DC=here,DC=com"

ldap = GetObject(Userpath)

print ldap.Name
print ldap.Groups()
print ldap.LastLogoff

I know that Groups is of the type <bound method CDispatch.Groups of
<COMObject ...>>, but that knowledge does not help me much.  I have
fiddled a bit with GetInfo and Dispatch, but it doesn't change the
results.



From bsass at edmc.net  Tue Jul 29 15:35:23 2003
From: bsass at edmc.net (Bruce Sass)
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 13:35:23 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: PyQt Help and Advice
In-Reply-To: <bg636k$408g$1@netnews.upenn.edu>
References: <bg636k$408g$1@netnews.upenn.edu>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.56.0307291332420.7218@bms>

On Tue, 29 Jul 2003, Ilya Knizhnik wrote:
> I am fairly new to Python.  I have found it an easy language to
> learn and a very usefull one for many tasks. Currently I am working
> on a python project that involves a GUI and it was suggested that
> PyQt is the best way to design that GUI. However since PyQt is
> rather new, I have not found much documentation on it, or examples
> in it.  The only useful tutorial/book I have found is at
> www.opendocspublishing.com/pyqt/ but it is not always clear for
> someone with almost no GUI experience. Does anyone have any
> suggestions?

http://www.riverbankcomputing.co.uk/pyqt/index.php

Is a good starting point.  Subscribe to the mailing list.




From MK at foo.com  Sun Jul 20 14:50:09 2003
From: MK at foo.com (MK)
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 20:50:09 +0200
Subject: Importing WMI module into Python CGI script fails
References: <bfe49o$boan8$1@ID-174077.news.uni-berlin.de> <3F1A9A07.F71D274D@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <bfeobb$dtsku$1@ID-174077.news.uni-berlin.de>

"Peter Hansen" <peter at engcorp.com> wrote

[...]

Hello Peter! This is what I get back in browser's window:





com_error


Python 2.2.2: C:\python\python.exe
Sun Jul 20 20:45:23 2003

A problem occurred in a Python script. Here is the sequence of function
calls leading up to the error, in the order they occurred.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----

 C:\python\testcgi\index.pycgi
    2 import cgitb; cgitb.enable()

    3 import wmi [MK comment: this line colored with a bright color!]

    4 import sys

    5

    6 cgi.test()

wmi undefined

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----

 C:\python\testcgi\wmi.py
  114 # Do just enough to ensure constants are available

  115 #

  116 obj = win32com.client.GetObject ("winmgmts:")  [MK comment: colored
with a bright color!]

  117 win32com.client.gencache.EnsureDispatch (obj._oleobj_)

  118 del obj

obj undefined, win32com = <module 'win32com' from
'C:\python\lib\site-packages\win32com\__init__.pyc'>, win32com.client =
<module 'win32com.client' from
'C:\python\lib\site-packages\win32com\client\__init__.pyc'>,
win32com.client.GetObject = <function GetObject at 0x00A42DA8>

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----

 C:\python\lib\site-packages\win32com\client\__init__.py in
GetObject(Pathname='winmgmts:', Class=None, clsctx=23)
   71     return GetActiveObject(Class, clsctx)

   72   else:

   73     return Moniker(Pathname, clsctx)     [MK comment: colored with a
bright color!]

   74

   75 def GetActiveObject(Class, clsctx = pythoncom.CLSCTX_ALL):

global Moniker = <function Moniker at 0x00A3D210>, Pathname = 'winmgmts:',
clsctx = 23

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----

 C:\python\lib\site-packages\win32com\client\__init__.py in
Moniker(Pathname='winmgmts:', clsctx=23)
   86     Python friendly version of GetObject's moniker functionality.

   87   """

   88   moniker, i, bindCtx = pythoncom.MkParseDisplayName(Pathname)

   89   dispatch = moniker.BindToObject(bindCtx, None,
pythoncom.IID_IDispatch)

   90   return __WrapDispatch(dispatch, Pathname, clsctx = clsctx)

moniker undefined, i undefined, bindCtx undefined, global pythoncom =
<module 'pythoncom' from 'C:\WINNT\System32\pythoncom22.dll'>,
pythoncom.MkParseDisplayName = <built-in function MkParseDisplayName>,
Pathname = 'winmgmts:'


com_error: (-2147217405, 'OLE error 0x80041003', None, None)
      __doc__ = None
      __getitem__ = <bound method com_error.__getitem__ of
<pywintypes.com_error instance at 0x005A72E0>>
      __init__ = <bound method com_error.__init__ of <pywintypes.com_error
instance at 0x005A72E0>>
      __module__ = 'pywintypes'
      __str__ = <bound method com_error.__str__ of <pywintypes.com_error
instance at 0x005A72E0>>
      args = (-2147217405, 'OLE error 0x80041003', None, None)






From pedro.werneck at bol.com.br  Sun Jul 20 10:35:52 2003
From: pedro.werneck at bol.com.br (Pedro Werneck)
Date: 20 Jul 2003 07:35:52 -0700
Subject: object as a reserved keyword
References: <vtnkhvoqcet2bgmeidae1st46m7q9sr1p3@4ax.com> <3F1A633B.98456C76@alcyone.com> <ogqkhv0a3ecl4fo4ktmma86gm5t9vkgn6s@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <ef72fb2b.0307200635.1ff7f37d@posting.google.com>

Lawrence Oluyede <raims at dot.com> wrote in message 
> Yeah, thanks. Is this kind of idea that I'm not used to

I remember seeing a piece like this on a discussion about abusive code:

>>> class Sum(type):
...     def __new__(meta, name, bases, dict):
...             return sum(bases)
... 
>>> class blah(1, 2, 3, 4, 5):
...     __metaclass__ = Sum
... 
>>> blah
15
>>> type(blah)
<type 'int'>
>>>

It's weird to have the freedom to do that... isn't Python great ?



From mesteve_b at hotmail.com  Thu Jul 10 22:25:32 2003
From: mesteve_b at hotmail.com (python newbie)
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 02:25:32 GMT
Subject: XML in python
References: <mailman.1056023019.23851.python-list@python.org> <3EF1BBD9.21D6712@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <wepPa.4609$su7.3254@newssvr19.news.prodigy.com>

This is a better url for someone who wants the Python end of XML, who
already knows XML itself.  http://pyxml.sourceforge.net/topics/

"Alan Kennedy" <alanmk at hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3EF1BBD9.21D6712 at hotmail.com...
> Ragu wrote:
> >         I need to read a XML file content in Python.
> >         Can anyone send me link/sample source?
>
> This link should give you a good start in all things XML/python.
>
> http://pyxml.sourceforge.net/topics/howto/xml-howto.html
>
> Although it describes many of the features that are provided by the
optional
> PyXML package, it also describes many of the core XML features provided in
the
> python standard library, such as SAX2, DOM, etc.
>
> regards,
>
> --
> alan kennedy
> -----------------------------------------------------
> check http headers here: http://xhaus.com/headers
> email alan:              http://xhaus.com/mailto/alan
>





From richardc at hmgcc.gov.uk  Tue Jul 15 08:41:23 2003
From: richardc at hmgcc.gov.uk (richardc)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 13:41:23 +0100
Subject: A few beginning questions
References: <3f129a8a$1@mail.hmgcc.gov.uk> <2259b0e2.0307140930.4b3c43a5@posting.google.com> <ptkdj863.fsf@python.net> <bf0anc$9gch1$1@ID-141451.news.uni-berlin.de> <3f13bd77$1@mail.hmgcc.gov.uk> <Xns93B968108D2DCduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <3f13f674$1@mail.hmgcc.gov.uk>

"Duncan Booth" <duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk> wrote in message
SNIP
> If the file isn't too large you can call the readlines() method and simply
> reverse the result as above. You may find this incovenient for very large
> files though.

It may well be

> I can't think of many cases where I would want to read a
> whole file in reverse, if all you want is the last few lines of a massive
> file then just seek near the end before reading the remainder and reverse
> the resulting list of lines.

This is exactly what Im doing, what Im actually doing is seeking to 1024
bytes from the end, then looking for the string
'startref\r\n<number>\r\n%%EOF' where <number> is an integer in decimal
format

I wanted to scan the lines backwards until I found %%EOF (as its likley to
be the last line) and do it that way.  I might do that or might use a regex
and just let that find it.

Cheers

Rich





From staschuk at telusplanet.net  Wed Jul 23 14:41:27 2003
From: staschuk at telusplanet.net (Steven Taschuk)
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 12:41:27 -0600
Subject: detecting containers during object introspection
In-Reply-To: <PmcTa.110138$sY2.48680@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net>; from davidcfox@post.harvard.edu on Tue, Jul 22, 2003 at 03:03:11PM +0000
References: <woVSa.102913$sY2.46301@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net> <mailman.1058834074.20023.python-list@python.org> <DF2Ta.116099$N7.15785@sccrnsc03> <mailman.1058869419.12844.python-list@python.org> <PmcTa.110138$sY2.48680@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net>
Message-ID: <20030723124127.B527@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>

Quoth David C. Fox:
  [...]
> That's one possibility.  My original reaction to it was that requiring 
> developers to write comparison operations for every class whose 
> instances are found in the stored dictionary seemed like overkill.  [...]

It might well be; this really depends on how frequently new types
are introduced to the stored dict.

Note also that it would often be possible to reuse comparison
functions written for other types.  Simple scalar values, for
example, can all use the comparison function
    def cmpstruct_scalar(a, b):
        return type(a) == type(b)
For another example, as you noticed, many (but not all -- see
below) instances of classes can be compared by comparison of their
__dict__s.

The point is that, under the choke-on-unknown-types strategy, in
many cases all the developer has to do when introducing a new type
to the stored dict is to add a line
    new_type: some_existing_comparison_function,
to a registry of type -> comparison function.  Doesn't seem
onerous to me.

  [...]
> 1) type(x) == type(y), and
> 
> 2) one of the following is true:
>     a) type(x) == type({}), and
>        x.keys() and y.keys() match, and
>        for each key, cmp_struct(x[key], y[key]) is true
>     b) type(x) == type([]), and
>        for each pair of items in x and y, cmp_struct returns true
>     c) type(x) == types.InstanceType, and
>        cmp_struct(x.__dict__, y.__dict__) is true
>     d) type(x) is not any of the above

Good idea!  A few things:

This doesn't handle new-style classes -- (c) identifies instances
of classic classes only.  hasattr(x, '__dict__') might be a better
test.

Also (c) doesn't compare the structure of class attributes, since
those are in the class dict, not the instance dict.  (I suppose
for pickling this might not matter, since the class is pickled
just as its name, so changes will automagically be available to
the unpickled instance.)

An extension type written in C might maintain lists or whatnot,
but not expose them as attributes.  This is true of the list and
dict types themselves, for example -- which is why you need
special handling for them above.

Instances of subclasses of list and dict won't be treated as lists
and dicts by (a) and (b) as written.  This is probably desirable
-- such subclasses might have additional structure which needs to
be compared -- but the contents of such instances won't be
compared by the later steps, again because those contents are not
exposed as attributes.

-- 
Steven Taschuk                               staschuk at telusplanet.net
"What I find most baffling about that song is that it was not a hit."
                                          -- Tony Dylan Davis (CKUA)




From belred1 at yahoo.com  Mon Jul 28 23:56:56 2003
From: belred1 at yahoo.com (Bryan)
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 03:56:56 GMT
Subject: Papers on Python
References: <8b36138c.0307281644.f6569ea@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <cgmVa.5134$It4.3025@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net>

"Rick" <rick_hunter357 at hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:8b36138c.0307281644.f6569ea at posting.google.com...
> I have been given an assignment to collect 5 papers on Python and
> write a report on each of the papers. I went ahead and researched and
> collected 9 papers; all from the internet with most of them coming
> from the International Python Conference.
>
> But then I got thinking. What are the 5 (or 6 or 7 or 10) most seminal
> papers in the history of Python in the opinion of members of this
> newgroups?
>
> I might replace all or some of my papers from those suggested by the
> members on this newsgroup.
>
> -RH
> PS. Before someone starts on how college kids are using the internet
> (or the help available on the 'net) to do the work for them, No I am
> not cheating. The actual assignment is to select 9 papers that you
> find interesting and write a report on each of them. I already have my
> 9 papers selected. Now I want to know if I would like to replace some
> from my collection.

my two personal favorite articles are:

eric raymond's "why python"
http://www.linuxjournal.com/article.php?sid=3882

Python Streamlines Space Shuttle Mission Design
http://pythonology.org/success&story=usa

bryan





From torh at operamail.com  Sun Jul  6 16:59:25 2003
From: torh at operamail.com (Tor)
Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2003 22:59:25 +0200
Subject: anything new on the ternary operator?
Message-ID: <y20Oa.11236$Hb.197832@news4.e.nsc.no>

What's the current status on the ternary operator that may or may not be
added to python.  Haven't heard much about that since the vote was announced
for a couple of months ago.  What's the best way to follow that dicussion?
Or are we just waiting for the developers to make their decision?





From unendliche at hanmail.net  Fri Jul  4 10:56:52 2003
From: unendliche at hanmail.net (Seo Sanghyeon)
Date: 4 Jul 2003 07:56:52 -0700
Subject: [Dream] A meta-wrapper module to interface any C dynamic library
References: <pan.2003.07.04.10.59.31.477048@virgilio.it>
Message-ID: <45e6545c.0307040656.4f273046@posting.google.com>

Use ctypes.

http://starship.python.net/crew/theller/ctypes/

To see is to believe. The following is an actual IDLE session on WinXP.
However, ctypes is cross-platform -- it rusn on Windows, Linux, MacOS X.

>>> import ctypes
>>> loader = ctypes.cdll
>>> dll = loader.msvcrt
>>> sin = dll.sin
>>> sin.argtypes = [ctypes.c_double]
>>> sin.restype = ctypes.c_double
>>> sin(3.14)
0.0015926529164868282
>>>



From piet at cs.uu.nl  Tue Jul  8 10:08:47 2003
From: piet at cs.uu.nl (Piet van Oostrum)
Date: 08 Jul 2003 16:08:47 +0200
Subject: Collective memory (was: Good code patterns in Python)
References: <mailman.1057515551.18489.python-list@python.org> <3F08E2E9.8014B9A9@engcorp.com> <3f094dfd$0$97234$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
Message-ID: <wzsmphdsb4.fsf@nono.cs.uu.nl>

>>>>> Max M <maxm at mxm.dk> (MM) wrote:

MM> Peter Hansen wrote:
>> Actually, the moral is "use a revision control system".  Anyone not doing
>> so should not be programming professionally.(*)

>> *) I speak as someone who programmed professionally without using a good
>> revision control system, for a while, and made some serious mistakes
>> as a result.  Backups are *not* sufficient, but merely a slight step
>> up from doing nothing at all.


MM> Arh ... that will never happen to me ... If you start using CVS systems,
MM> whats next? Anti Virus software? Raid systems? backups? It will never end.
MM> It's all just expenses.

In fact the problem starts with using a computer. Just write (or type with
an oldfashioned typewriter) your Python programs on a sheet of paper. Then
the indentation will be unambiguous :=)
-- 
Piet van Oostrum <piet at cs.uu.nl>
URL: http://www.cs.uu.nl/~piet [PGP]
Private email: P.van.Oostrum at hccnet.nl



From bhahn at spam-spam.g0-away.com  Thu Jul 31 22:16:19 2003
From: bhahn at spam-spam.g0-away.com (Brendan Hahn)
Date: Fri, 01 Aug 2003 02:16:19 GMT
Subject: Python speed vs csharp
References: <rkdc7poiachh.1x4jtxjzaf3zo.dlg@40tude.net> <qnkn0eutndk.fsf@arbutus.physics.mcmaster.ca>
Message-ID: <bhahn-ya02408000R3107031918500001@news.corp.hp.com>

cookedm+news at physics.mcmaster.ca (David M. Cooke) wrote:
>(Ok, I don't know why 1000 times on arrays of 1000 numbers is twice as
>fast as once on an array of 1000*1000 numbers.)

Probably cache effects.

-- 
brendan DOT hahn AT hp DOT com



From warkid at hotbox.ru  Wed Jul 23 04:27:54 2003
From: warkid at hotbox.ru (Kerim)
Date: 23 Jul 2003 01:27:54 -0700
Subject: Python 2.3c1: Raising a string doesn't trigger PendingDeprecationWarning.
Message-ID: <7c58a0f1.0307230020.1336f4ea@posting.google.com>

"What's New in Python 2.3"
(http://www.python.org/doc/2.3c1/whatsnew/node17.html) says that
"Raising a string will now trigger PendingDeprecationWarning.". But
with Python 2.3c1 it seems that it isn't the case:

Python 2.3c1 (#44, Jul 18 2003, 14:32:36) [MSC v.1200 32 bit (Intel)]
on win32
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> raise 'error'
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
error
>>>



From tzot at sil-tec.gr  Thu Jul 24 03:59:12 2003
From: tzot at sil-tec.gr (TZOTZIOY remotely)
Date: 24 Jul 2003 00:59:12 -0700
Subject: [OT] On the TimBot
References: <mailman.1058834554.32124.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <f3cf8593.0307232359.1bc1d19d@posting.google.com>

"Delaney, Timothy C (Timothy)" <tdelaney at avaya.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.1058834554.32124.python-list at python.org>...
> > From: Christos "TZOTZIOY" Georgiou [mailto:tzot at sil-tec.gr]
> >
> > 3. To "Tron" fans: yes, you could assign the name TimBit to 
> > it, but it's
> > a broken Bit; what's the use of a Bit that's always true?
> 
> Well, it compresses really well ...

Yes, a single unchanging bit in time compresses very well (contrary to
a single bit at a specific moment in time).  But compressibility is an
attribute, not a use :)



From CousinStanley at hotmail.com  Sun Jul  6 17:33:53 2003
From: CousinStanley at hotmail.com (Cousin Stanley)
Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2003 14:33:53 -0700
Subject: Using Loops to track user input
References: <bea0p6$17f$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <bea4gh$2pvt6$1@ID-130333.news.dfncis.de>

| Write a program that reads 10 numbers from the user
| and prints out the sum of those numbers.

hokiegal ...

Here is one way ...

nLoops = 10
total  = 0

for i in range( nLoops ) :

    num_in = int( raw_input( 'Enter an Integer :  ' ) )

    total += num_in

print total

-- 
Cousin Stanley
Human Being
Phoenix, Arizona





From mhammond at skippinet.com.au  Wed Jul 23 19:47:58 2003
From: mhammond at skippinet.com.au (Mark Hammond)
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 09:47:58 +1000
Subject: Trying to contact Lee Harr <missive@frontiernet.net>
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1058994517.30949.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1058994517.30949.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bfn6rb$2rv1$3@arachne.labyrinth.net.au>

Khalid Sheikh wrote:

> Hi Lee,
> 
> Not sure why my email got bounced. 

Try reading the bounce!

> This is a permanent error; I've given up. Sorry it didn't work out.
> 
> <missive at frontiernet.net>:
> maildrop: This user's mailbox is full.

Just try again later!

Mark.




From combe.michel at 9online.fr  Tue Jul  1 10:01:13 2003
From: combe.michel at 9online.fr (Michel Combe)
Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 16:01:13 +0200
Subject: Why does it work ?
Message-ID: <bds44b$10bdv9$1@ID-181365.news.dfncis.de>

I'm trying to send a mail with an attached file. 
I use the following code and *it works* but I don't understand why and I 
hate that.

for filename in os.listdir(dir):
    path = os.path.join(dir, filename)
    if not os.path.isfile(path):
        continue
    ctype, encoding = mimetypes.guess_type(path)
    if ctype is None or encoding is not None:
        ctype = 'application/octet-stream'
    maintype, subtype = ctype.split('/', 1)
    if maintype == 'text':
        fp = open(path)
        msg = MIMEText(fp.read(), _subtype=subtype)
        fp.close()
    msg.add_header('Content-Disposition', 'attachment', filename=filename)
    outer.attach(msg)

In the "dir" directory, I have 2 text files :
- "texte.txt" which is the text I want inside the body of the message and 
- "fichier.txt" which is the file I want attached.

Why is "texte.txt" the only file that I find in the body of the message. 
Both files are text, so the MIMEText instruction shoud be executed for both 
files, No ?
Also add_header should be executed for both files resulting in 2 attached 
files ?
Which instruction says what is included in the body and what is attached to 
the mail ?

I must say I'm not sure of what MIMEText and add_header exactly do. I read 
the doc but it was not too clear for me.

Thanks for your help
Michel Combe



From manuelbastioniNOSPAM at tin.it  Tue Jul 22 06:00:27 2003
From: manuelbastioniNOSPAM at tin.it (manuel)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 10:00:27 GMT
Subject: Pause in a loop
Message-ID: <%W7Ta.10360$t92.299097@news1.tin.it>

I've two modules: main.py and eval.py

Eval.py is imported in main.py, but I've a loop
in eval.py that must call a function in main.py...

I can't import main.py in eval.py too, because
that would create an import loop.

But I'm thinking a different solution:
a pause in a loop to return periodically an
output. It's possible?


thanks,

          Manuel





From martin at v.loewis.de  Mon Jul 14 01:56:40 2003
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-15?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 14 Jul 2003 07:56:40 +0200
Subject: anything like C++ references?
References: <000301c348c7$3c501980$21795418@dell1700> <iqm2hvs77lhe1m71v9b579070khbf0uv0a@4ax.com> <berqqd$ad5$1@panix3.panix.com> <brs2hv8edfv0d1fch9mha8otuulajnkh0g@4ax.com> <bes0ps$l6$1@panix3.panix.com> <qi13hv4s21i8mtr2e600jumm54hqs7tppu@4ax.com> <mailman.1058125699.26133.python-list@python.org> <sag3hv4vf884ed7ouu5cv8ofnopp9j1t12@4ax.com> <f0f51c80.0307132003.264b6894@posting.google.com> <7dc4hvslh7a8fk9p6cvsfqa1c8d44rmmnv@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <m3y8z1ps6f.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Stephen Horne <intentionally at blank.co.uk> writes:

> Funny thing. When I use algebra, the variables I define don't end up
> referring to different values, functions or whatever unless I
> explicitly redefine them. When I write a definition on one piece of
> paper, the things I wrote earlier on another sheet don't change.

That, typically, is because you don't have any mutating operations in
your formulae. All functions you use are side-effect-free. If you
translated the sheets of paper literally into Python, the formulae
would work the way you expect them to work.

Regards,
Martin



From bmoore at integrian.com  Tue Jul 22 15:15:24 2003
From: bmoore at integrian.com (bmoore at integrian.com)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 15:15:24 -0400
Subject: How do I get more events from a wxListCtrl in a panel?
Message-ID: <df2rhv01arcg51jdpnjc7e1vrll4knbrki@4ax.com>

Hello.

I am working on an application using wxPython that includes a panel
with a wxListCtrl populated with data received from a LAN attached
database.

I want the wxListCtrl panel to be loaded with a small amount of data
initially.  When the user moves the vertical scrollbar or press PageUp
or PageDown, I want to load the list view with new data from the
database.  I only want to load the wxListCtrl with a subset of the
database data at a time so the list view is responsive and will allow
for handling large databases.

The problem I am having is how to get events from the scrollbars or
the PageUp/PageDown keys, etc.  I can get events from selecting items,
etc.

Thanks,
Brian





From tim.one at comcast.net  Sat Jul 12 00:58:32 2003
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 00:58:32 -0400
Subject: The "intellectual property" misnomer
In-Reply-To: <k8MPa.1892$3G5.1669@nwrdny03.gnilink.net>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCIEOOENAB.tim.one@comcast.net>

[Ben Finney]
>>>> If the PSF holds the copyright to Python, please say that.
>>>> If the PSF holds patents which cover Python, please say that.
>>>> If the PSF owns the trademark for Python, please say that.
>>>> If the PSF has trade secrets in Python, please say that.

[Tim]
>>> So you somehow managed to divine Guido's intent from that
>>> "ridiculous, meaningless term"

[Ben Finney]
>> No, I requested that the term be clarified, because *I don't* know
>> what is meant by "The PSF holds the intellectual property rights for
>> Python". It's a meaningless statement as it stands.

[Raymond Hettinger]
> PSF is the copyright holder and issuer of the python license to the
> code covered by that copyright.  Type license() at the command
> prompt to see the elaboration using terms that *do* have meaning
> to the legal types who helped craft and vette the wording.

The PSF is also seeking to obtain the trademarks and service marks CNRI has
obtained relating to Python, and those still in the application process.

> In layman's terms, it means exactly what Guido said.

Heh -- in lawyer's terms too.  I don't see any point to belaboring the
obvious again, though <wink>.





From fredrik at pythonware.com  Wed Jul 30 13:47:43 2003
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 19:47:43 +0200
Subject: how to gunzip a string ?
References: <025001c356a5$2d9aad10$6400a8c0@EVOD31>
Message-ID: <bg90oi$v1d$1@main.gmane.org>

Bill Loren wrote:
> I guess I really need some sort of library that will do a gzip decoding to a
> compressed string.
> assume that I have a gzipped_string_reply I got from an HTTP server,
> It'd be superb to have a gunzip class that takes it and return its decoded
> equivalent.
>
> I managed to do it with the gzip library only after saving the string to a
> file and then opening and reading it
> with gzip.open, but it's extremely ugly.
>
> any suggestions ?

trying again:

    http://effbot.org/zone/consumer-gzip.htm
    (GzipConsumer module)

interface code (based on john j. lee's posting):

    from GzipConsumer import GzipConsumer

    class stupid_gzip_consumer:
        def __init__(self): self.data = []
        def feed(self, data): self.data.append(data)

    def gunzip(data):
        c = stupid_gzip_consumer()
        gzc = GzipConsumer(c)
        gzc.feed(data)
        gzc.close()
        return "".join(c.data)

    unzipped_data = gunzip(gzipped_data)

</F>







From usenet2003 at krap.dk  Mon Jul 28 07:25:33 2003
From: usenet2003 at krap.dk (Svenne Krap)
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 13:25:33 +0200
Subject: Readling all input from stdin
Message-ID: <VI7Va.40548$Kb2.1696739@news010.worldonline.dk>

Hi.

I am writing a small script, that is called from an external program 
(the qmail mailserver), I need to capture all input from stdin before 
continueing the script ..

I looked for sys.stdin.readlines() but that is not present. I found 
sys.stdin.readline(), but how do I loop through it (or rather how do I 
know, when I am finished with looping ?)

Thanks in advance

Svenne




From j.vanrooij_at_e-quest.nl  Mon Jul  7 03:14:25 2003
From: j.vanrooij_at_e-quest.nl (Joost van Rooij)
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 09:14:25 +0200
Subject: Delete item from wxListCtrl
References: <3f05842f$0$49105$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl> <20030704214425.5bb4e81a.jude-venn@blueyonder.co.uk>
Message-ID: <3f091e83$0$49105$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

"Jude Venn" <jude-venn at blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message

> haven't checked, but i think there's a GetIndex() method on the event
object that returns the index of the selection.
>

Yep, I tested it, and it worked!
thanx a lot!





From ianb at colorstudy.com  Sun Jul 13 15:52:59 2003
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: 13 Jul 2003 14:52:59 -0500
Subject: anything like C++ references?
In-Reply-To: <5tn2hvgjqlqg1qs7omvugpvm62cuso261k@4ax.com>
References: <000301c348c7$3c501980$21795418@dell1700>
	 <mailman.1058062578.6658.python-list@python.org>
	 <u432hvkg62vsoela63f45e5pj144ehf7qe@4ax.com>
	 <mailman.1058097105.20488.python-list@python.org>
	 <5tn2hvgjqlqg1qs7omvugpvm62cuso261k@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <1058125979.28456.415.camel@lothlorien>

On Sun, 2003-07-13 at 08:56, Stephen Horne wrote:>
> You are not directly returning multiple values - you are returning a
> tuple. You can return containers in C++ too. The only difference is
> that Python makes working with tuples *much* easier

Of course, anything you can do in Python you can do in any other
language.  The *whole point* is that Python is so much easier.  Don't
worry so much about every equivalent feature or about translating every
C++ idiom to Python.  Just write your programs -- they'll be different
from C++, but that's okay.

  Ian






From tyler at scalegen.com  Mon Jul 28 13:10:38 2003
From: tyler at scalegen.com (Tyler Eaves)
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 13:10:38 -0400
Subject: Readling all input from stdin
References: <VI7Va.40548$Kb2.1696739@news010.worldonline.dk>
Message-ID: <pan.2003.07.28.17.10.38.665573@scalegen.com>

#NB: Not tested. There are probably better ways to do this.

import sys
def emulate_readlines():
    data = sys.stdin.read()
    lines = data.split('\n')
    l2 = []
    for line in lines:
        l2.append(line+'\n') #Tack the newline back on...
    return l2

    




From fredrik at pythonware.com  Tue Jul  8 15:07:13 2003
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 21:07:13 +0200
Subject: anything new on the ternary operator?
References: <3F09E4B4.FED89C06@alcyone.com> <3F09252F.9B0F52BD@alcyone.com> <mailman.1057533670.9800.python-list@python.org> <beae42$d01$1@panix2.panix.com> <mailman.1057574950.16136.python-list@python.org> <mailman.1057642872.21988.python-list@python.org> <40a939c9.0307080622.3118cfd7@posting.google.com> <mailman.1057676413.31729.python-list@python.org> <2UVsCJApkwC$EwTg@jessikat.demon.co.uk>
Message-ID: <bef4nr$utc$1@main.gmane.org>

Robin Becker wrote:

> the Middle East is certainly not in Europe at least according to
> classical authors, historians & geographers.

but all mediterranean countries are, according to the ITU.

> I suspect Israelis would prefer to be in America so that they
> wouldn't have to take part in the Eurovision song contest.

if we'd known that you folks would end up this bitter, we would
have given you one point ;-)

</F>







From Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org  Wed Jul 30 18:10:25 2003
From: Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org (Scott David Daniels)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 15:10:25 -0700
Subject: searching for matches within a word list
In-Reply-To: <pan.2003.07.29.21.35.57.62265.14802@presidency.com>
References: <pan.2003.07.29.21.35.57.62265.14802@presidency.com>
Message-ID: <3f284251$1@nntp0.pdx.net>

Rajarshi Guha wrote:
> Hi,
>   I have a large list of words (each on its own line) 
> and I would like to find words that contain a specific string.
How bad is (for 2.3)?
	result = []
	apnd = result.append
	source = file('data', 'U')
	for line in source:
	    if specific in line:
	        apnd(line)
	source.close()
	# result is the list you want

-Scott David Daniels
Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org




From jbar at lf1.cuni.cz  Thu Jul 10 08:02:34 2003
From: jbar at lf1.cuni.cz (Jiri Barton)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 14:02:34 +0200
Subject: LOADING DATA INTO ARRAYS
References: <mailman.1057772594.19921.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3f0d55db@shknews01>

Solution:
---------

ifile1 = open('fluidcylinder', 'r')  #fluidcylinder contains the above
for line in ifile1:
  xval,yval,zval = filter(None, line.split())
  x.append(xval)
  y.append(yval)
  z.append(zval)


Because if the line is '123   456 789', then line.split() is
['123', '', '', '456', '789']
This means it will split every string between every space in the string. The
split() function thinks the original string is
123-space-empty-space-empty-space-456-789.

The error, unpack of wrong size means you wanted to assign 
xval,yval,zval = ('123', '', '', '456', '789')
.....3-tuple ? 5-tuple

The solution just filters out the members of the list that are false (the
None is the identity function) = effectively filtering out the empty
strings.



HTH,  Jiri



From ianb at colorstudy.com  Sat Jul 12 16:02:00 2003
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: 12 Jul 2003 15:02:00 -0500
Subject: Any pure-python relational databases?
In-Reply-To: <2a897f11.0307121143.4a37113b@posting.google.com>
References: <pan.2003.07.12.14.11.19.428895@127.0.0.1>
	 <2a897f11.0307121143.4a37113b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1058040119.28467.172.camel@lothlorien>

On Sat, 2003-07-12 at 14:43, Wayne Pierce wrote:
> David McNab <postmaster at 127.0.0.1> wrote in message news:<pan.2003.07.12.14.11.19.428895 at 127.0.0.1>...
> 
> [sniped]
> 
> > 1) Any pure-python interface to MySQL? or
> 
> If you cannot get the MySQL specific interface working, have you tried
> a generic database interface?
> 
> http://www.python.org/topics/database/DatabaseAPI-2.0.html

Eh?  The generic interface isn't code, it's just an abstract interface,
implemented by various actual drivers (MySQLdb, psycopy, etc).  If you
try to *use* DBAPI directly, you're just going to confuse yourself
horribly as you come to realize that it can't be done.

  Ian






From gsmatthew at ozemail.com.au  Sun Jul  6 08:29:22 2003
From: gsmatthew at ozemail.com.au (Graeme Matthew)
Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2003 22:29:22 +1000
Subject: Python is a gem ,another successful day ....
Message-ID: <ECUNa.628$kY2.37591@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au>

Hi all  I previously made a post (
Python is a gem, you need to keep pushing it ....)

about how impressed I was with python and how im suign it in a proposed
commercial app.

Got a call on Friday a company with a very succesfull product in Visual
Basic (Front End) SQL (Backend) wanted to move from Microsoft products due
to all the problems with MDAC (ADO etc), XP networking issues .... and
concerns with microsofts control ///

Well after three hours looks like Python (and linux and mysql) may have won
again, explained perl (semantic nightmare but a great language) , ruby
(great language but lack of libraries) etc, Vb's weaknesses and the need for
vendor neutrality anyway, as things move ill put some updates on here ...
and tell you ho it goes, ....

Hey, im trying very hard to promote it :-)

Cheers







From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sun Jul 13 21:36:57 2003
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 13 Jul 2003 21:36:57 -0400
Subject: anything like C++ references?
References: <13t0hvsb7idh0g6ac3upe5k0qd6flc17ah@4ax.com> <1058126738.28456.424.camel@lothlorien> <mailman.1058131341.21911.python-list@python.org> <mpn3hvkbd9sesm30devamii1vmdnq90lg8@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <bet1fp$h92$1@panix3.panix.com>

In article <mpn3hvkbd9sesm30devamii1vmdnq90lg8 at 4ax.com>,
Stephen Horne  <intentionally at blank.co.uk> wrote:
>
>In Python, Guido describes his rationale for the existence of both
>mutable lists and immutable tuples here...
>
>http://www.python.org/search/hypermail/python-1992/0292.html

I'll note that Guido himself has also admitted that his ability to
explain his design decisions is far worse than his ability to select a
correct decision.  These days, the rationale for tuples is that they're
a hyper-lightweight collection of heterogeneous values.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"Not everything in life has a clue in front of it...."  --JMS



From paul.moore at atosorigin.com  Wed Jul  2 05:19:41 2003
From: paul.moore at atosorigin.com (Paul Moore)
Date: 2 Jul 2003 02:19:41 -0700
Subject: Python2.3 and win32all wmi problems.
References: <9c9ad528.0306031121.66b71309@posting.google.com> <8360efcd.0306040503.24cd4b7c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <182bcf76.0307020119.7627a8ec@posting.google.com>

tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk (Tim Golden) wrote in message news:<8360efcd.0306040503.24cd4b7c at posting.google.com>...
> murtaza_hakim at yahoo.com (Murtaza Hakim) wrote
> 
> MH> when I try to access the Windows Management
> MH> Instrumentation (WMI) classes I get a traceback.  
> MH> This operation works fine using Python 2.2.
> 
> [ snip traceback ]
> 
> Just to clarify, I believe it is the version of win32all 
>  which you are using, and not the version of Python, which
>  is the source of the error. I get the same error running
>  win32all-153 under Python 2.2.2.

I am also hitting this problem - it seems to be an issue with new code
in win32all build 153, in pythoncom.

As a workaround, if you go to Mark Hammond's website, and follow the
link to "Regular Snapshot Builds"
(http://starship.python.net/crew/mhammond/win32/CVSSnapshotBuilds.html)
you can download the 20021220 build. It's an installer executable, but
you can open it in WinZip (or similar) and extract pythoncom23.dll
from it. Replace the existing copy of this file (in your
C:\WINNT\SYSTEM32 directory) with this one, and things seem OK.

For what it's worth (Mark may be interested) the relevant change seems
to be in pywin32/com/win32com/src/PythonCOM.cpp where a call to
PyArg_ParseTuple was changed from ``PyArg_ParseTuple(args,
"s|O:MkParseDisplayName", &displayName, &obBindCtx)`` to
``PyArg_ParseTuple(args, "et|O:MkParseDisplayName",
Py_FileSystemDefaultEncoding, &displayName, &obBindCtx)``. I don't
know what this is doing, but it's pretty much where the traceback is
pointing...

Paul.



From richard.mertens at wolfi.org  Fri Jul 11 04:00:15 2003
From: richard.mertens at wolfi.org (Richard Mertens)
Date: 11 Jul 2003 08:00:15 GMT
Subject: libxml2  - Attribute
Message-ID: <Xns93B565C3B4193richardmertenswolfio@130.133.1.4>

I'd like to read the attributes from a node in my xml - file, but i didn't 
found an example for this. Could someone help me please?
I ghet the attribute count work neither.

example - xml file

<test>
<muh attr1="test1" attr2="test">kulimuh</muh>
</test>

example python - script

ctxt = doc.xpathNewContext()
res = ctxt.xpathEval("//test/muh")
for myres in  res:
       print myres.AttributeCount
  

File "/usr/lib/python2.2/site-packages/libxml2.py", line 189, in __getattr__
    raise AttributeError,attr
AttributeError: AttributeCount




From dkuhlman at rexx.com  Tue Jul 15 16:58:57 2003
From: dkuhlman at rexx.com (Dave Kuhlman)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 13:58:57 -0700
Subject: call one python script from within another
References: <ben27t$hj9$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <3f0f40b9$0$49103$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl> <93f5c5e9.0307120814.4a84ca9a@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bf1ptd$a94b5$1@ID-139865.news.uni-berlin.de>

hokiegal99 wrote:

> Irmen de Jong <irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl> wrote in
> message news:<3f0f40b9$0$49103$e4fe514c at news.xs4all.nl>...
>> Tubby Tudor wrote:

[snip]

>> def main():
>>      ....  body of your code here ....
>> 
>> 
>> main()               # run code in one
>> two.main()   # run code in two
>> three.main() # run code in three
>> ------------------
>> 
>> Will this do?
> 
> 
> Yes, this works. Thanks for the tip!

Note, however, that if the main() function in module two or three
uses command line paramters, you may have to trick it as follows:

  import sys

  main()               # run code in one
  sys.argv = ['junk', 'argval1', 'argval2']
  two.main()   # run code in two
  sys.argv = ['junk', 'argval3', 'argval4']
  three.main() # run code in three

By the way, I just tried this.  It works.

But, take a look at the main function in modules two and three.
It may be just as easy to call the function(s) it calls.

 - Dave

-- 
Dave Kuhlman
http://www.rexx.com/~dkuhlman
dkuhlman at rexx.com



From giles_brown at hotmail.com  Tue Jul 29 04:52:01 2003
From: giles_brown at hotmail.com (Giles Brown)
Date: 29 Jul 2003 01:52:01 -0700
Subject: Cannot register dll created using "py2exe --com-dll"
Message-ID: <57de9986.0307290052.688e54c5@posting.google.com>

I'm feeling quite dumb this morning.

I'm trying to build a COM server DLL using py2exe and it ain't working.

Here's what ain't working...

setup_dll.py based on py2exe sample:
"""from distutils.core import setup
import py2exe

setup(name="MadeUpName Object Model", 
    scripts=['madeupname.application'],
    output_base='madeupname')
"""

Command line for building dll (N.B. python 2.3 as instructed):
"""c:\python23\python madeupname/setup_dll.py py2exe --com-dll --excludes Tkinter"""

Command line for registering dll:
regsvr32 c:\pvcs\madeupname\model\dist\application.dll

Result when I try to register dll:
"""DllRegisterServer in c:\pvcs\madeupname\model\dist\application.dll failed.
Return code was: 0x80040201
"""

The winerror.h entry for this says:
"""//
// MessageId: CO_E_FAILEDTOGETSECCTX
//
// MessageText:
//
//  Unable to obtain server's security context
//
#define CO_E_FAILEDTOGETSECCTX           _HRESULT_TYPEDEF_(0x80040201L)
"""

But I'm guessing that this is simply a way of saying the I haven't told
pythoncom (via py2exe) which classes to register.  I'm looking at the
source and I am trying to work it out but failing :-(

I have tried an exe server, but this does not register either.

Any suggestions?

Also does anyone know what argument to use to get py2exe to build something
other than "application.[dll/exe]".  I thought 'output_base' as an argument
to setup() would do it, but no joy.

If you folks can make me feel even more stupid by pointing out my
obvious mistake, that would make me happy. :-)

Thanks for reading,
Giles Brown



From irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl  Sun Jul 27 12:05:31 2003
From: irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 18:05:31 +0200
Subject: Tools for reading Dr Dobb's Python-URL
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1059316961.18762.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1059296203.18871.python-list@python.org> <3f23bc25$0$49102$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl> <mailman.1059316961.18762.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3f23f845$0$49109$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

Egbert Bouwman wrote:
> My mail reader is the text-based Mutt, which:
> - doesn't react to mouse clicks
> - does show url's in a different color
> - seems not to do anything useful with them

I see. Would the DrDobbs web page I pointed at
(http://www.ddj.com/topics/pythonurl/)
not be a good alternative for you?
If you accept a slight delay until the latest
Python-URL is posted on that web site, you can
read it and click all links by using any web browser...

I cannot help you with a better alternative
to mutt if you want to use a text-based mail reader,
sorry.

--Irmen





From exarkun at intarweb.us  Mon Jul 21 02:19:55 2003
From: exarkun at intarweb.us (Jp Calderone)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 02:19:55 -0400
Subject: Unfortunate exception on dict item assignment (and why aren't slices hashable?)
In-Reply-To: <W_2dnTcAbdod5YaiXTWJkQ@comcast.com>
References: <mailman.1058752171.10243.python-list@python.org> <bffq56$j27$0@216.39.172.122> <W_2dnTcAbdod5YaiXTWJkQ@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <20030721061955.GA10920@intarweb.us>

On Mon, Jul 21, 2003 at 01:22:07AM -0400, Terry Reedy wrote:
> 
> I presume you are asking: Why hasn't slice been converted from a
> 'mere' function to a callable type like int, str, and float have been?
> 
> If this has not yet been done for the coming 2.3, \
> [snip]

  It has.

  Jp

-- 
Lowery's Law:
        If it jams -- force it.  If it breaks, it needed replacing anyway.
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From light at soton.ac.uk  Wed Jul  2 07:02:36 2003
From: light at soton.ac.uk (Mark Light)
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 12:02:36 +0100
Subject: splitting a string into 2 new strings
Message-ID: <bdue2n$m07$1@aspen.sucs.soton.ac.uk>

Hi,
      I have a string e.g. 'C6 H12 O6' that I wish to split up to give 2
strings
'C H O' and '6 12 6'.  I have played with string.split() and the re module -
but can't quite get there.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Mark.







From alanmk at hotmail.com  Tue Jul  1 11:54:55 2003
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 16:54:55 +0100
Subject: remove special characters from line
References: <3f01a27d$0$43847$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net> <bds98v$hun$1@news.rol.ru>
Message-ID: <3F01AECF.965FAADA@hotmail.com>

[Chris Rennert]

> If I have a line like this
> 
> ?blah blah blah blah blah
> 
> I know I could do a slice like this [1:] to pull everything but the
> special character, but what if I have several lines in a file.
> I am not sure how I would detect a special character like that.  I
> would just like to pull everything from those lines (and the special
> character always appears as the first character, but not on every line)
> except for the special characters.

How about something like this?

for line in file('myfile.stars'):
    print line.lstrip('*')

Should remove all '*' (even if there is more than one) from the beginnings (but
not the ends) of lines.

Egor Bolonev wrote:

> I didn't get what you're talkink about.

Then what was the purpose of your reply?

I find it helps keeps the signal noise to ratio of the group down if people only
post when they have something to contribute.

regards,

-- 
alan kennedy
-----------------------------------------------------
check http headers here: http://xhaus.com/headers
email alan:              http://xhaus.com/mailto/alan



From exarkun at intarweb.us  Tue Jul 22 12:03:17 2003
From: exarkun at intarweb.us (Jp Calderone)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 12:03:17 -0400
Subject: Iterating order of dict.items()
In-Reply-To: <16469f07.0307220706.5e2fe1e4@posting.google.com>
References: <16469f07.0307220706.5e2fe1e4@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20030722160317.GA18762@intarweb.us>

On Tue, Jul 22, 2003 at 08:06:28AM -0700, Robin Cull wrote:
> [snip]
> 
> So, is the order of dict.items() defined?  If so, what is that order? 
> Is there any way to control the order my dict is iterated over?

   The order is implementation dependent.  It may change across different
versions of Python, and should not be depended upon.  There is no way to
control this in the built-in dictionary type, but it is possible to subclass
dict and override any of keys/values/items/iterkeys/itervalues/iteritems you
desire to acheive the appropriate ordering.

  Jp

-- 
"One World, one Web, one Program." - Microsoft(R) promotional ad
"Ein Volk, ein Reich, ein Fuhrer." - Adolf Hitler




From me at privacy.net  Mon Jul 28 10:13:26 2003
From: me at privacy.net (Heather Coppersmith)
Date: 28 Jul 2003 10:13:26 -0400
Subject: changing the List's behaviour?
References: <mailman.1059338081.22895.python-list@python.org> <bg36kj$jcr$02$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <m2brveyc1l.fsf@host200-null.null.bellsouth.net>

On Mon, 28 Jul 2003 14:46:14 +0200,
Peter Otten <__peter__ at web.de> wrote:

> meinrad recheis wrote:
>> i want to change the List so that it returns None if the index for
>> accesssing list elements
>> is out of bound.

> If you really need it, you can write a class similar to the one below:

> class DefaultList(list):
>     def __init__(self, sequence=[], default=None):

That's asking for trouble.  That mutable default argument for
sequence is evaluated at class definition-time, and all instances
of DefaultList created without a sequence argument will end up
sharing one list.

Do this instead:

class DefaultList( list ):
    def __init__( self, sequence = None, default = None ):
        if sequence is None:
            sequence = [ ]

>         list.__init__(self, sequence)
>         self.default = default
>     def __getitem__(self, index):
>         try:
>             return list.__getitem__(self, index)
>         except IndexError:
>             return self.default

> if __name__ == "__main__":
>     theList = DefaultList("abc", "?")
>     print theList[1]
>     print theList[99]

>     theList = DefaultList(default="X")
>     print theList[1]

Regards,
Heather

-- 
Heather Coppersmith
That's not right; that's not even wrong. -- Wolfgang Pauli




From garyr at fidalgo.net  Mon Jul 14 23:27:53 2003
From: garyr at fidalgo.net (Gary Richardson)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 20:27:53 -0700
Subject: Sio serial module install problem with ActiveState
References: <pan.2003.07.14.21.40.42.609932@zexcite.zcom>
Message-ID: <vh6t85fn1njm94@corp.supernews.com>

[snip]

> BTW, this serial printer is apparently pretty much a 'dump
> and go' type device - the only thing the printer seems to
> be capable of returning is a 4-byte error code after a special
> error report command is sent to the printer - other than that,
> all of the data and commands seem to move downstream only,
> with no return from the printer expected. Is Sio overkill for
> this, i.e. is there some incredibly simple "open a serial port
> under Win32 for write only" command I'm missing in the basic
> Python stuff?
>
> Many thanks,
>
> Conrad
>

I've written a pretty simple serial I/O module that will do what you want.
Email me directly if you would like a copy.

Gary Richardson





From michael at foord.net  Wed Jul  9 04:37:10 2003
From: michael at foord.net (Fuzzyman)
Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 09:37:10 +0100
Subject: Executables under Win32
Message-ID: <5vkngvs2epq6rv0a3rodeb839k5ls8bafj@4ax.com>

IS there a tool to make Python Executables (binaries) under Win32...
or must people have a distribution of Python to use any scripts I
write ?

I don't need to hide my source code - but would liek to make it easy
for a newbie to use my scripts.

Fuzzyman
---
Everyone has talent. What is rare is the courage to follow talent to the dark place where it leads. -Erica Jong
Ambition is a poor excuse for not having sense enough to be lazy. -Milan Kundera 

http://www.voidspace.org.uk 
Where Headspace Meets Cyberspace
Cyberpunk and Science Resource Site
Exploring the worlds of Psychology, Spirituality, Science and Computing
--
http://www.fuchsiashockz.co.uk
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/void-shockz
http://www.learnlandrover.com



From oussoren at cistron.nl  Mon Jul  7 04:01:25 2003
From: oussoren at cistron.nl (Ronald Oussoren)
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 10:01:25 +0200
Subject: ANN: PyObjC 1.0b1
Message-ID: <35051178-B051-11D7-991E-0003931CFE24@cistron.nl>

PyObjC 1.0b1 is now available for download at 
http://pyobjc.sourceforge.net/

PyObjC is a bridge between Python and Objective-C.  It allows full
featured Cocoa applications to be written in pure Python.  It is also
easy to use other frameworks containing Objective-C class libraries
from Python and to mix in Objective-C, C and C++ source.

Python is a highly dynamic programming language with a shallow learning
curve.  It combines remarkable power with very clear syntax.

The installer package includes a number of Project Builder templates for
easily creating new Cocoa-Python projects, as well as support for
syntax-coloring Python files in Project Builder.

PyObjC also supports full introspection of Objective-C classes and
direct invocation of Objective-C APIs from the interactive interpreter.

PyObjC requires MacOS X 10.2 or later.  PyObjC works both with the Apple
provided Python installation in MacOS X 10.2 (and later) and with
MacPython 2.3b1.  Users of MacPython 2.3b1 can install PyObjC though the
PackageManager application.

PyObjC 1.0b1 includes numerous improvements over earlier versions, 
including:

* Improved performance and stability
* Better tutorials and examples
* Initial support for MacOS X 10.1
* Support for the WebKit framework
* Write plugin bundles in Python (requires Python 2.3b1)

PyObjC is released with an open source license.





From prashsingh at yahoo.com  Tue Jul 22 12:27:28 2003
From: prashsingh at yahoo.com (Prashant Singh)
Date: 22 Jul 2003 09:27:28 -0700
Subject: py2exe command line window problem
Message-ID: <1ee79758.0307220827.78f8571@posting.google.com>

I'm using py2exe to create a standalone executable from a Python
script, and I would like the script to run invisibly, i.e. without a
console window and without any interactive GUI. The script is a helper
app, which simply downloads and runs some other program.

I've tried passing the -w flag to the script, and I've also tried
renaming it with a .pyw extension, but when the executable is run an
empty console window opens with the title "C:\WINNT\system32\cmd.exe".
I've checked, and there are no print statements, which might cause
py2exe to assume it's still a console app.

Is there something I'm missing?

Thanks,
prashant.



From staschuk at telusplanet.net  Tue Jul 15 16:06:18 2003
From: staschuk at telusplanet.net (Steven Taschuk)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 14:06:18 -0600
Subject: link collection
In-Reply-To: <3F140634.2010201@embeddedsystems.nl>; from gerrit.muller@embeddedsystems.nl on Tue, Jul 15, 2003 at 03:48:36PM +0200
References: <3F140634.2010201@embeddedsystems.nl>
Message-ID: <20030715140618.B438@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>

Quoth Gerrit Muller:
  [...]
> This link collection is bootstrapped by proudly stealing the links 
> mentioned in Dr Dobbs Python URL by Steven Taschuk. Many thanks to Steven.

Though I appreciate the comment, I should point out that the
author of Python-URL changes from time to time -- at present it's
Irmen de Jong, not me.  The editor and general overseer of the
various authors is Cameron Laird, who surely deserves those thanks
more than I do.

-- 
Steven Taschuk     staschuk at telusplanet.net
"Please don't damage the horticulturalist."
         -- _Little Shop of Horrors_ (1960)




From rimbalaya at yahoo.com  Mon Jul 28 11:05:53 2003
From: rimbalaya at yahoo.com (Rim)
Date: 28 Jul 2003 08:05:53 -0700
Subject: Why instancemethod when I can add functions to classes outside class body?
References: <6f03c4a5.0307242027.85f195a@posting.google.com> <m3oezj6v6w.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <slrnbi1hsk.hkq.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local> <3f210717$0$76049$edfadb0f@dread11.news.tele.dk> <z66cnQ3uq8sT8byiU-KYvw@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <6f03c4a5.0307280705.6a4ab103@posting.google.com>

"Terry Reedy" <tjreedy at udel.edu> wrote in message 
> > >>> class A: pass
>  ...
> > >>> a1 = A(); a2 = A()
> > >>> a1.f = new.instancemethod(lambda self: "hi", a1, A)
> > >>> a2.f()
> > Traceback (most recent call last):
> >   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
> > AttributeError: A instance has no attribute 'f'
> > >>> a1.f()
> > 'hi'
> 
> So to answer the OP's question, the problem solved is that directly
> assigning a function as an instance attribute binds the function as a
> function, which means no *automatic* access to the instance and its
> other attributes.  If such access is needed, the instance must be

I don't understand why you say "no automatic access". If you examine
the following, I have access to the attributes defined in the class,
without doing anything special:

>>> class a:
...    def __init__(self,name):
...       self.msg = "hi"
...       self.name = name
... 
>>> def f(self):
...    print "hello"
...    print self.msg
...    print self.name
... 
>>> a.f = f
>>> b=a("Joe")
>>> b.f()
hello
hi
Joe

I obviously don't understand what you are trying to explain to me.

>So to answer the OP's question, the problem solved is that directly
>assigning a function as an instance attribute binds the function as a
>function, which means no *automatic* access to the instance and its
>other attributes.  If such access is needed, the instance must be
>passed explicitly, as in
>a1.f = lambda self: repr(self)
>a1.f(a1)
>
>Instancemethod adds the option of wrapping instance-specific functions
>as bound methods getting the instance as an automatic first (self)
>paramater, just like with class-wide methods.  In the 'hi' example


I think someone should write the official definitions for the following
so we all talk the same language:
- function
- method
- bound method/function
- unbound method/function
- class-wide method/function
- class-not-wide method/function
- etc.

> requires the wrapping to avoid having to explicitly pass the instance.

I did not pass the instance and it worked in my example. I'd like to understand
what you are trying to show me.

Thanks,
-Rim



From mertz at gnosis.cx  Wed Jul 16 17:22:51 2003
From: mertz at gnosis.cx (David Mertz, Ph.D.)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 17:22:51 -0400
Subject: [Announce] Gnosis Utils 1.1.0 (update)
Message-ID: <rIcF/kKkXsqH092yn@gnosis.cx>                

** SECOND TRY (aaghh!)
** I bit the bullet and bought more bandwidth, this notice is
** updated to reflect the permanent URL for Gnosis Utilities

[Announce] Gnosis Utils 1.1.0

This release contains enhancements to gnosis.xml.objectify.

    Added _XO_.__repr__ method to make nodes print in a nicer,
    more compact fashion.

    Added ._seq attribute to node objects to support structure
    preserving convenience functions.  Specifically, older
    versions of gnosis.xml.objectify lost information about mixed
    content and the order of children.  E.g.,

      >>> xml = '<foo>Mixed <i>content</i> is <b>good</b></foo>'
      >>> obj = XO(xml,EXPAT).make_instance()
      >>> obj.PCDATA, obj.i.PCDATA, obj.b.PCDATA
      (u'Mixed is', u'content', u'good')

    We had no way of knowing where inside <foo> the <i> and the
    <b> occur, nor even which child element occurs first.

    Now we can recover that information:

      >>> from gnosis.xml.objectify import content, children
      >>> content(obj)
      [u'Mixed ', <i id="30264c">, u' is ', <b id="30292c">]
      >>> children(obj)
      [<i id="30264c">, <b id="30292c">]

    Sequence information and convenience methods are NOT
    SUPPORTED (yet?) for the DOM parser, only for EXPAT!

    Changed default parser to EXPAT.  If you have relied on the
    special attribute ._XML that the DOM parser attaches to
    nodes, you will now need to explicitly specify DOM as the
    parser used.  However, the new sequence functions pretty well
    handle the job pyobj._XML used to do (in a different way).

    Some newer versions of PyXML report CDATA as #cdata-section
    nodes rather than as #text.  We deal with it either way now.

It may be obtained at:

    http://gnosis.cx/download/Gnosis_Utils-1.1.0.tar.gz

The current release is always available as:

    http://gnosis.cx/download/Gnosis_Utils-current.tar.gz

Try it out, have fun, send feedback!

David Mertz (mertz at gnosis.cx)
Frank McIngvale (frankm at hiwaay.net)

------------------------------------------------------------------------

BACKGROUND:  Gnosis Utilities contains a number of Python libraries, most
(but not all) related to working with XML.  These include:

    gnosis.indexer          (Full-text indexing/searching)
    gnosis.xml.pickle       (XML pickling of Python objects)
    gnosis.xml.objectify    (Any XML to "native" Python objects)
    gnosis.xml.validity     (Enforce validity constraints)
    gnosis.xml.indexer      (XPATH indexing of XML documents)
    [...].convert.txt2html  (Convert ASCII source files to HTML)
    gnosis.util.dtd2sql     (DTD -> SQL 'CREATE TABLE' statements)
    gnosis.util.sql2dtd     (SQL query -> DTD for query results)
    gnosis.util.xml2sql     (XML -> SQL 'INSERT INTO' statements)
    gnosis.util.combinators (Combinatorial higher-order functions)
    gnosis.util.introspect  (Introspect Python objects)
    gnosis.magic            (Multimethods, metaclasses, etc)

...and so much more! :-)





From tdelaney at avaya.com  Wed Jul 30 01:03:56 2003
From: tdelaney at avaya.com (Delaney, Timothy C (Timothy))
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 15:03:56 +1000
Subject: while (assignment):
Message-ID: <338366A6D2E2CA4C9DAEAE652E12A1DE958C7E@au3010avexu1.global.avaya.com>

> From: Andrew Dalke [mailto:adalke at mindspring.com]
> 
> >>> a = [1, 2, 9, 0]
> >>> n = iter(a).next
> >>> while [x for x in [n()] if x]:
> ...  print "I have", x
> ...
> I have 1
> I have 2
> I have 9
> >>>
> 
> Again, don't this in real code.  Evil.  But cute.

I would say it's actually rude, rather than evil.

Tim Delaney




From MK at foo.com  Sat Jul 12 13:05:20 2003
From: MK at foo.com (MK)
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 19:05:20 +0200
Subject: Parsing stdout through a pipe?
Message-ID: <bepf5g$7u6st$1@ID-174077.news.uni-berlin.de>

I have a Win32 console application (SNMPUTIL.EXE) which listens
to incoming SNMP messages:

C:\>snmputil trap
snmputil: listening for traps...


When a trap is generated on a remote server, it is being sent to
the PC running SNMPUTIL.EXE, and  then finally printed out to
stdout like this:

snmputil: trap generic=6 specific=11003
  from -> 10.198.163.89
Variable = system.sysName.0
Value    = String DEAUDIIP109387
Variable = .iso.org.dod.internet.private.enterprises.232.11.2.11.1.0
Value    = Integer32 0
Variable = .iso.org.dod.internet.private.enterprises.232.11.2.8.1.0
Value    = String Compaq Management Agents Test Trap sent - Samstag, 12.
Juli 2003 18:52:19


I'd like to write a Python application which would intercept/parse this
stdout
output, and invoke various pop-ups ("alarms"). Any ideas?





From bokr at oz.net  Sun Jul 13 22:34:47 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 14 Jul 2003 02:34:47 GMT
Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=F1=EF=E5=F8=E8=E0=EB_=E4=EB=FF_=F0=EE=F1?=  =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=F1=E8=E9=F1=EA=E8=F5_=EF=E8=F2=EE=ED=F9=E8=EA=EE=E2=29?=  =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=29=29?=
References: <37d6f77c.0307130932.1e3adf0d@posting.google.com> <3f11ac74$0$49101$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl> <3F11D94A.7050208@removeme.free.fr>
Message-ID: <bet4s7$gfv$0@216.39.172.122>

On Sun, 13 Jul 2003 22:12:26 +0000, Bruno Desthuilliers <bdesth.nospam at removeme.free.fr> wrote:

>Irmen de Jong wrote:
>> Garber wrote:
>> 
>>> ?????, ?????????? ??? ??? ??????? ????? ??????(????????, ?????? ???? ?
>>> exe-???? ?????????).
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Yes!
>> I think.
>> 
>> ;-)
>> 
>> On second thought, what's he saying?
>> 
>
>He said :
>"?????, ?????????? ??? ??? ??????? ????? ??????(????????, ?????? ???? ? 
>exe-???? ?????????)."
>
>It does seem clear enough, doesn't it ?-)
>
narod, polskaschitye plye postatb progou fribyer(kaschyetbsya, korouye nado b exe-shink peregnatb)

or somethink like that. No idea, just applying cyrillic font and picking out greek ;-P

Roman can tell us ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From max at alcyone.com  Fri Jul 18 02:04:36 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 23:04:36 -0700
Subject: null pointer exceptions
References: <pan.2003.07.18.04.32.08.409676@nothing.bom.gov.au> <3F17806E.3B9B4F75@alcyone.com> <pan.2003.07.18.05.22.56.317254@nothing.bom.gov.au>
Message-ID: <3F178DF4.A20EAF6A@alcyone.com>

Tennessee James Leeuwenburg wrote:

> Certainly I can catch it. However, Java does not require that it be
> caught
> itself.
> 
> I realise it's not great practise to leave these kinds of things in
> your
> Java code, but I'm extending someone else's code, and don't really
> want to
> back-correct class after class as I find these problems coming up,
> especially since it doesn't cause Java any hassles.

So the Java program itself handles the NullPointerException, but when
run from Jython it doesn't?  I thought NullPointerExceptions always
propagated all the way up like normal RuntimeExceptions?

Or is it that in Java a NullPointerException is thrown in a side thread,
which dies, but everything else keeps running fine -- and Jython makes a
bigger deal out of the NullPointerException because it chokes on any
exception from any Java subthread?

If it's the latter, then it sounds like the right solution -- mimicking
Java's not-great-but-satisfactory behavior would be to catch the
NullPointerException in Jython and then toss it (since that is, what in
effect, Java is doing).

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ You can buy any kind of love, but you can't buy love deluxe.
\__/  Sade Adu



From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Mon Jul 21 18:06:25 2003
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 17:06:25 -0500
Subject: Search for a string in binary files
In-Reply-To: <bfhldv$lb$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu> (hokieghal99's message of "Mon,
 21 Jul 2003 17:19:59 -0400")
References: <bfhldv$lb$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <m28yqry1pa.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

>>>>> "hokieghal99" == hokieghal99  <hokiegal99 at hotmail.com> writes:

    hokieghal99> Hello, How could I use python to search for a string
    hokieghal99> in binary files? From the command line, I would do
    hokieghal99> something like this on a Linux machine to find this
    hokieghal99> string:

    hokieghal99> grep -a "Microsoft Excel" *.xls

    hokieghal99> How can I do this in Python?

Linux doesn't distinguish between binary files and regular files, so
you can use the usual string find method.  On windows, you need to be
sure to open the file in binary mode


  >>> s = file('temp.xls', 'rb').read()
  >>> s.find('Excel')

The point is that there is nothing special about searching binary
files.  Search the google groups archives for python grep for more
information.

You can use regular expressions if you want to do more sophisticated
pattern matching.

JDH




From elainejackson7355 at home.com  Sat Jul 12 10:50:08 2003
From: elainejackson7355 at home.com (Elaine Jackson)
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 14:50:08 GMT
Subject: new in town
Message-ID: <AeVPa.445271$Vi5.11496890@news1.calgary.shaw.ca>

Can Python be compiled? If so, how? (I have the 2.2 version of the interpreter.)
TIA for any and all helps

--

Peace,
EJ





From roo at dark-try-removing-this-boong.demon.co.uk  Thu Jul  3 12:53:36 2003
From: roo at dark-try-removing-this-boong.demon.co.uk (Rupert Pigott)
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 17:53:36 +0100
Subject: Collective memory
References: <mailman.1057083728.8224.python-list@python.org> <vg88va53uha8e@corp.supernews.com> <1057243309.793889@saucer.planet.gong> <vg8hns2u0l4off@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <1057251216.551262@saucer.planet.gong>

"Pete Fenelon" <pete at fenelon.com> wrote in message
news:vg8hns2u0l4off at corp.supernews.com...
> In alt.folklore.computers Rupert Pigott
<roo at dark-try-removing-this-boong.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> >
> > OCCAM used WS to denote block structure... For
>
> ...and was generally written with folding editors that just "got it
> right" ;)

I noticed that a few of the KDE 3.1 editors support folding... :)

Took me a while to work out what those lines & + things were in
the left margin... Made me happy. :)

Cheers,
Ruppert





From bgailer at alum.rpi.edu  Mon Jul 28 10:58:00 2003
From: bgailer at alum.rpi.edu (Bob Gailer)
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 08:58:00 -0600
Subject: How to reverse lookup characters in list?
In-Reply-To: <pan.2003.07.28.06.15.30.615723@cs.rit.edu>
References: <mailman.1059365860.23474.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20030728085709.02bc7df0@66.28.54.253>

At 06:11 AM 7/28/2003 +0000, Keith Jones wrote:

>okay, isn't the number in the list the index of the new letter? So you'd
>just use alphabet[d].. though what you're doing can be done in a much
>simpler manner..
>
>for starters... check out the string module. you can do
>
>import string
>string.lowercase
>
>that gives you a-z, lowercase.. I think you'll be fine with a string,
>rather than a list (infact, it's better since it's immutable). If you must
>ahve a list, you can do
>
>[a for a in string.lowercase]

Or just list(string.lowercase])
[snip]

Bob Gailer
bgailer at alum.rpi.edu
303 442 2625
-------------- next part --------------

---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.500 / Virus Database: 298 - Release Date: 7/10/2003

From tomas at fancy.org  Mon Jul 14 20:18:40 2003
From: tomas at fancy.org (Tom Plunket)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 17:18:40 -0700
Subject: anything like C++ references?
References: <mailman.1058190505.14930.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <sqh6hvcmj1sf7kmjqga96meos97qjoeksh@4ax.com>

Michael Chermside wrote:

> > Assignment never copies anything, or creates anything except for 
> > changing the variable to point to a different address location.  
> > *Every* Python assignment (a=b) is like the C assignment (a=&b).  
> 
> I have nothing whatsoever to add to this... it is just so clearly and
> simply stated that I felt it was worth repeating.

Although I don't think that it's correct.  Either a and b are
both pointer types or they're not- but IMHO it's much more useful
(perhaps) to C programmers to say "everything's a pointer" and
when you say

a = 5

You're saying the almost-C equivalent to 

a = &5;

If one considers that everything is a pointer, and that you
cannot necessarily change the object that the pointer points to
(there is no equivalent of

*a = 5

), then it actually becomes (hopefully) fairly straight-forward
to the C programmer.

So- it would probably be more helpful to C programmers to say
"everything is a pointer" rather than "everything is a
reference," and then add that "there is no pointer
dereferencing."


-tom!



From vincent_delft at yahoo.com  Sun Jul 27 06:58:26 2003
From: vincent_delft at yahoo.com (vincent_delft)
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 12:58:26 +0200
Subject: Web tool kit : pro - cons ?
References: <3f23003f$0$266$ba620e4c@reader0.news.skynet.be> <3f23034d$0$49103$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl> <3f230835$0$280$ba620e4c@reader0.news.skynet.be> <mailman.1059268366.2051.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3f23b02b$0$276$ba620e4c@reader1.news.skynet.be>

Gerhard H?ring wrote:

> vincent_delft wrote:
>> My needs are :
>> - Build pages via templates (easy to split content and layout)
> 
> ZPT seems to be a good option there.
> 
Nice. New to me.
I've already played with Zope.... but ZPT seams to take the best from
Templates without having the Zope constraints.


>> - My pages will be defined with "boxes".  I would like to have a tool
>> that can manage easely such "object".
> 
> You mean a WYSIWYG web development IDE for Python? I don't think there's
> such a thing.
> 
No.  Each part of the web page will be "boxes".  I would like to be very
flexible and display "dynamically" some selected boxes.
For example the same page (url) will not display the same boxes if you are
administrator, maintener or simple viewer.
An another example will be to have possibility to re-use existing boxes.  If
I have a boxes displaying the last 5 news from Slashdot, I don't want to
re-write it each time I need a new bacground color (for example). My Idea
is to use those "boxes" like we use classes : if you need some modification
you subclass it on the rest remains the same.



>> - I will use PostgreSQL as backend.
> 
> I'd suggest you use pyPgSQL or psycopg for this. I'm a little biased
> towards pyPgSQL, being one of it's developers ;-)
> 
Yeah!!!!! Thanks for your work.  I'm fan of pyPgSQL it works very well
(version 2.4).

> -- Gerhard




From staschuk at telusplanet.net  Wed Jul  2 10:21:57 2003
From: staschuk at telusplanet.net (Steven Taschuk)
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 08:21:57 -0600
Subject: Suggesting for overloading the assign operator
In-Reply-To: <bdteop$t9u$0@216.39.172.122>; from bokr@oz.net on Wed, Jul 02, 2003 at 02:07:21AM +0000
References: <6f03c4a5.0306301931.3f15fbb7@posting.google.com> <mailman.1057072504.30095.python-list@python.org> <bdteop$t9u$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <20030702082157.A595@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>

Quoth Bengt Richter:
  [...suggests a := b equivalent to a.__update__(b)...]
> I guess it's a matter of what kind of sugar you like ;-)

Quite.

  [...syntactic support for Currency objects...]
> I'm not sure what that would mean.

I meant a language like Python but with a Currency literal syntax.
With syntax such as, say,
    123.45$  equivalent to  Currency(123.45)
(except, perhaps, for decimal vs binary exactness issues), the
users could type
    a = 7$
    # ...
    a = 6$
which is less onerous than writing Currency(7), Currency(6).

This idea is well-suited to the scenario in which the users make
pervasive use of objects of this type, and the main problem is
having to type "Currency" over and over again.

  [...]
-- 
Steven Taschuk                               staschuk at telusplanet.net
"What I find most baffling about that song is that it was not a hit."
                                          -- Tony Dylan Davis (CKUA)




From hokiegal99 at hotmail.com  Sun Jul 13 20:33:12 2003
From: hokiegal99 at hotmail.com (hokiegal99)
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 20:33:12 -0400
Subject: removing spaces from front and end of filenames
References: <beqdf0$m2q$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <3F10BABB.D548961B@alcyone.com> <93f5c5e9.0307130744.7e9d8377@posting.google.com> <besopc$qnm$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <3F11FA48.7010102@hotmail.com>

Bengt Richter wrote:
> On 13 Jul 2003 08:44:05 -0700, hokiegal99 at hotmail.com (hokiegal99) wrote:
> 
> 
>>Erik Max Francis <max at alcyone.com> wrote in message news:<3F10BABB.D548961B at alcyone.com>...
>>
>>>hokiegal99 wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>This script works as I expect, except for the last section. I want the
>>>>last section to actually remove all spaces from the front and/or end
>>>>of
>>>>filenames. For example, a file that was named "  test  " would be
>>>>renamed "test" (the 2 spaces before and after the filename removed).
>>>>Any
>>>>suggestions on how to do this?
>>>
>>>That's what the .strip method, which is what you're using, does.  If
>>>it's not working for you you're doing something else wrong.
>>
>>for root, dirs, files in os.walk('/home/rbt/scripts'):
>>    for file in files:
>>        fname = (file)
>>        fname = fname.strip( )
>>print fname
>>
>>When I print fname, it prints the filenames w/o spaces (a file named "
>>test " looks like "test"), but when I ls the actual files in the
>>directory they still contain spaces at both ends. That's what I don't
>>understand. It seems that .strip is ready to remove the spaces, but
>>that it needs one more step to actually do so. Any ideas?
> 
> I don't see where you rename " test " to "test" ;-)
> 
> BTW, file is a builtin name for the file class, which creates open file objects,
> so it's best to use another name.
> 
> Maybe change that last loop to (untested!)
> 
> for root, dirs, files in os.walk('/home/rbt/scripts'):
>     for fname in files:
>         newfile = fname.strip( )
>         if newfile != fname:
>             newpath = os.path.join(root,newfile)
>             oldpath = os.path.join(root,fname)
>             os.rename(oldpath,newpath)
>             print `oldpath` # back ticks to print repr to make sure you can see spaces
> 	    print `newpath`
> 
> Regards,
> Bengt Richter

I've found the below code to OK, does anyone see any problems with it? 
I've ran it several times w/o damaging anything ;). The only problem 
with doing this on dirs is that the script doesn't act on dirs within 
dirs that are being renamed by the script as the path didn't exist when 
the script started running. So, I have to run it several times. It works 
but it's a bit of a kludge. Anyone know of a work around for this?


for root, dirs, files in os.walk('/home/rbt/test'):
     for dir in dirs:
         old_dname = (dir)
         new_dname = old_dname.strip( )
	newdir = new_dname
	if newdir <> old_dname:
             newpath = os.path.join(root,newdir)
             oldpath = os.path.join(root,dir)
             os.rename(oldpath,newpath)
	    print oldpath
	    print newpath




From maxm at mxm.dk  Thu Jul  3 05:17:30 2003
From: maxm at mxm.dk (Max M)
Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 11:17:30 +0200
Subject: A story about Python... sort of
Message-ID: <3f03f430$0$97222$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>

There is a story today on Slashdot


Open Source Project Management Lessons
======================================
http://developers.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=03/07/02/1817220&mode=flat&tid=185

"Paul Baranowski takes a moment to reflect on Open Source Project 
Management in his blog. His reflections are based on the first two years 
of the Peek-a-booty project." Interesting comments on media coverage, 
choice of programming language, when to release a project, and more.


In that article Paul Baranowski has a list of lessons. One being

Engineering Lessons
-------------------
    1. C/C++ is no longer a viable development language


He doesn't really say in the article what language should be used 
instead. But there is a link to another page:

Which Language Do You Recommend?
================================
http://peek-a-booty.org/Docs/WhichLanguageDoYouRecommend.htm


And guess which language it is?


regards Max M




From sybrenUSE at YOURthirdtower.imagination.com  Mon Jul 14 20:21:59 2003
From: sybrenUSE at YOURthirdtower.imagination.com (Sybren Stuvel)
Date: 15 Jul 2003 00:21:59 GMT
Subject: PyQT, Sharp Zaurus and color in the QTextBrowser
References: <slrnbh60lj.3jm.sybrenUSE@sybren.thirdtower.com> <mailman.1058214925.28095.python-list@python.org> <3F132103.4D18759F@engcorp.com> <mailman.1058220622.19636.python-list@python.org> <slrnbh6gd6.463.sybrenUSE@sybren.thirdtower.com>
Message-ID: <slrnbh6i97.4c7.sybrenUSE@sybren.thirdtower.com>

Sybren Stuvel enlightened us with:
> Al least, that's the way I see it. I dont't know Trolltech's
> intentions. I'll check out the docs.

Ok, here's the scoop:

Using QTextEdit as a Display Widget 

QTextEdit can display a large HTML subset, including tables and images.
The text is set or replaced using setText() which deletes any existing
text and replaces it with the text passed in the setText() call. If you
call setText() with legacy HTML (with setTextFormat(RichText) in force),
and then call text(), the text that is returned may have different
markup, but will render the same.

So that's it. A large HTML subset, which could mean anything. Oh well,
just stick to double-quotes and we'll be fine ;-)

Sybren
-- 
The problem with the world is stupidity. Not saying there should be a
capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the
safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself? 



From jjl at pobox.com  Sun Jul 20 20:12:45 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 21 Jul 2003 01:12:45 +0100
Subject: python tags on websites timeout problem
References: <cdac0350.0307191527.755df3e1@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <87d6g4u48y.fsf@pobox.com>

gregadelliot at hotmail.com (jeff) writes:

> im trying to pull tags off a website using python ive got a few things
> running that have the potential to work its just i cant get them to
> becuase  of certain errors?
> file = urllib.urlretrieve("http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=rabbit"
> , "temp1.tmp")

Google's terms of service, IIRC, don't allow automated queries.  I'm
not entirely sure what that means, but people seem to interpret it as
meaning "Don't web-scrape", so don't do that.  Use the Google API
instead (you can get a free key).  It is true some bits of Google
aren't accessible through the API, though.  Dunno about the image
search facility.

http://www.google.com/groups?as_q=SOAP%20python%20google

http://sourceforge.net/projects/pywebsvcs


John



From amk at amk.ca  Thu Jul 10 11:11:12 2003
From: amk at amk.ca (A.M. Kuchling)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 10:11:12 -0500
Subject: How does python work
References: <pan.2003.07.10.11.05.07.519231@sdf-eu.org>
Message-ID: <nkWdnee9-rWNH5CiRTvUqw@speakeasy.net>

On Thu, 10 Jul 2003 13:05:07 +0200, 
	Geiregat Jonas <eniac at sdf-eu.org> wrote:
> I'm asking myself how Python code get's executed ...
> What happens first etc ...
> First read the file and then ..

The code is parsed and compiled into bytecode that can then be executed.
Consult a textbook on parsing or programming language implementation for
more details about how parsing is done.  

I thought someone (MWH?) wrote an explanation of Python's internals once,
but can't find anything at the moment.  The Python docs have some relevant
material (http://www.python.org/doc/current/ext/ext.html), but that document
doesn't concentrate on the implementation details, just on the bits you can
easily access from extensions.

> also could someone point me to the build in functions in the python source
> code ?

They're in Python/bltinmodule.c.

--amk
OTHELLO: Once more, well met at Cyprus!
      -- _Othello_, II, i
      



From Sibylle.Koczian at Bibliothek.Uni-Augsburg.de  Tue Jul 15 11:04:18 2003
From: Sibylle.Koczian at Bibliothek.Uni-Augsburg.de (Koczian)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 17:04:18 +0200
Subject: Open MS Excel Spreadsheet with Python
In-Reply-To: <0vJQa.6944$G%5.4151@twister.nyroc.rr.com>
References: <mailman.1058229111.12248.python-list@python.org> <0vJQa.6944$G%5.4151@twister.nyroc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <bf155i$a1jtn$1@uni-berlin.de>

Cy Edmunds schrieb:
> "Allison Bailey" <allisonb at terralogicgis.com> wrote in message
> news:mailman.1058229111.12248.python-list at python.org...
> 
>>I would like to open an existing MS Excel spreadsheet and extract
>>information from specific worksheets and cells.
>>
First things first:

  Python programming on Win32 : [help for Windows programmers] / Mark 
Hammond and Andy Robinson. - 1. ed.
Beijing [u.a.] : O'Reilly, 2000. - XVII, 652 S. : Ill.
ISBN 1-56592-621-8

Lots of material about MS Excel <-> Python. Uses Python 1.5.2, but most 
of the code works with later versions.

And of course, use your Excel VBA help to get the object and method 
names right.

>>I'm not really sure how to get started with this process.
>>I ran the COM Makepy utility from my PythonWin (IDE from ActiveSTate),
>>using Microsoft Excel 10.0 Object Library, then
>>import win32com.client
>>xl = win32com.client.Dispatch("Excel.Application")
>>wb = xl.Workbooks.Open ("c:\\data\\myspreadsheet.xls")
>>
>>Then, I get errors when I try the following:
>>sh = wb.worksheets(1)
>>

Most probably a simple case sensitivity problem:

sh = wb.Worksheets(1)

sh = wb.ActiveSheet might be better, depending on context.

>>
>>Also, do I need to run the makepy utility every time I run my script?

No, just once. I don't know anything about deploying, though.

> 
> Your code worked on my system. However, I have found this interface to be
> pretty tricky. It often happens that while you are debugging the program you
> generate an instance of Excel which then makes later operations bomb
> mysteriously. On XP, hit Ctrl-Alt-Del tp bring up the task manager and then
> look at the Processes tab. If you have an instance of Excel running you
> should see it there. Use End Process to get rid of it.
>
Very true (but as I read the original post, the exceptions start at 
first try).

> You can avoid these problems by making sure that any COM references you make
> get released properly if an exception occurs. Your script would look like
> this:
> 
> import win32com.client
> xl = win32com.client.Dispatch("Excel.Application")
> try:
>     wb = xl.Workbooks.Open ("c:\\data\\myspreadsheet.xls")
>     try:
>         sh = wb.worksheets(1)
>         try:
>             print sh.Cells(2,3)
>         except:
>             sh = None
>             raise
>         sh = None
>     except:
>         wb.Close()
>         wb = None
>         raise
>     wb.Close()
>     wb = None
> except:
>     xl = None
>     raise
> xl = None
> 
> There are more elegant ways of doing this using classes. However, with this
> code I think you will never see one of those mysterious Excel instances in
> your task manager.
> 
I think try / finally would be better. Explicitly deleting all three: 
sh, wb and xl is the key to not having Excel zombies, if there is an 
exception or not.

That's a small bug in the easyExcel class of the Hammond book: it only 
deletes xl, not the variable representing the Workbook. So you still get 
your zombie.

HTH,
Koczian

-- 
Dr. Sibylle Koczian
Universitaetsbibliothek, Abt. Naturwiss.
D-86135 Augsburg

Tel.: (0821) 598-2400, Fax : (0821) 598-2410
e-mail : Sibylle.Koczian at Bibliothek.Uni-Augsburg.DE




From tzot at sil-tec.gr  Tue Jul  8 12:38:59 2003
From: tzot at sil-tec.gr (Christos TZOTZIOY Georgiou)
Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 19:38:59 +0300
Subject: [OT] On the TimBot
Message-ID: <62slgvsljos7v5snie6toc4qucv5nt1n15@4ax.com>

I am again trying to catch-up with the group (my time-sharing slices get
longer and longer as I grow old :), so after sequentially reading
several of TimBot's common slash-and-hack (or slash-and-wink for lamers,
or hack-and-wink for coders, or hack-slash-star-wink!-star-slash for C
coders) replies, I would like to address the following two warnings:

1. To "Matrix" fans: don't ever use the line "He's only human" on the
TimBot.  It's not.
2. To "2001 A space odyssey" fans: whenever it says "sorry", it's being
sarcastic <wink>
3. To "Tron" fans: yes, you could assign the name TimBit to it, but it's
a broken Bit; what's the use of a Bit that's always true?

PS I can't count; there are 10 kinds of people, those who grok binary
and those who don't. <blink> <breath />
Thanks Tim for your code and for your posts, and cheers everyone :)
-- 
TZOTZIOY, I speak England very best,
Microsoft Security Alert: the Matrix began as open source.



From mickel at csc.fi  Wed Jul  2 03:58:07 2003
From: mickel at csc.fi (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Mickel_Gr=F6nroos?=)
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 10:58:07 +0300 (EEST)
Subject: How do I get the fractions of the visible part of a canvas?
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0307021049020.32002-100000@sampo.csc.fi>

Hi,

I have a Tkinter.Canvas of variable width. Is there a standard way of
asking the canvas which parts of it that is visible? I.e. on the
horizontal scale, I would like to know at what fraction from the left the
left visibility border is and from what fraction to the right the right
visibility border is.

Consider this ascii picture as an example

+-------------------------------+
|                               |<-- the full canvas
|     a------------------+      |
|     |                  |<--------- the currently visible part
|     +------------------b      |
|                               |
+-------------------------------+

I would like to be able to ask the canvas something like:

t = canvas.visiblebox()

and it would return a two-tuple of two-tuples with coordinates (of the
a and b points in the picture above), say:

t = ((10,10), (90,30))

Using these values I could calculate the fractions myself.

Any ideas?

/Mickel

--
Mickel Gr?nroos, application specialist, linguistics, Research support, CSC
PL 405 (Tekniikantie 15 a D), 02101 Espoo, Finland, phone +358-9-4572237
CSC is the Finnish IT center for science, www.csc.fi





From support at takeitcheap.com  Sun Jul 13 01:10:29 2003
From: support at takeitcheap.com (Support Take It Cheap)
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 00:10:29 -0500 (Central Daylight Time)
Subject: (no subject)
Message-ID: <3F10E9C5.000006.60229@criminal>

It's Finally Here!!!

www.takeitcheap.com

The place where you can get consumer electronics for almost FREE!!!





Check it out at

www.takeitcheap.com
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From pifpafpuf at gmx.de  Fri Jul 18 12:55:54 2003
From: pifpafpuf at gmx.de (Harald Kirsch)
Date: 18 Jul 2003 09:55:54 -0700
Subject: Jython: preload PythonInterpreter with values for use in scripts
Message-ID: <16990fa4.0307180855.48705a33@posting.google.com>

How can I set variables in PythonInterpreter such that
scripts then run via import can have access to it.

My idea was to go along the lines of:

    PythonInterpreter ip = new PythonInterpreter();
    // make the object about to use the interpreter
    // available to that interpreter
    ip.set("javaCaller", this);
    ip.exec("import mystuff");

Within mystuff.py I wanted to do things like

    m = sys.modules['__main__']
    m.javaCaller.setThoseNiftyFeaturesOfTheCallingJavaObject("hello")

Alas, sys.modules does not contain '__main__'. 

Is there any way to get hold of locals() of PythonInterpreter ip within
a module imported as shown above?

I would expect that execfile allows the above communication,
but then I have to do all the searching for the module myself.
Therefore a solution where the module is simply imported as above
is preferred.

  Thanks,
  Harald.



From vze4rx4y at verizon.net  Wed Jul 16 05:02:52 2003
From: vze4rx4y at verizon.net (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 09:02:52 GMT
Subject: hex check
References: <mailman.1058340712.8247.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <0x8Ra.429$7O.326@nwrdny01.gnilink.net>

[Ruslan Spivak]
> Does anybody have a hint how to check if input hex number is in correct
> hex format?

Try converting it.
If the conversion fails, then the format was bad:

>>> int('0x2F', 16)
47
>>> int('0x2G', 16)

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<pyshell#1>", line 1, in -toplevel-
    int('0x2G', 16)
ValueError: invalid literal for int(): 0x2G



Raymond Hettinger





From tjreedy at udel.edu  Thu Jul 10 17:30:55 2003
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 17:30:55 -0400
Subject: for in sequence problem... possible new operator to add to python
References: <3a8fc6c5.0307100816.634c83a3@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <TnOdneeQn8KNRpCiXTWJiQ@comcast.com>

"Adam Gent" <agentgt at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:3a8fc6c5.0307100816.634c83a3 at posting.google.com...
> However I want b [in 'for b in somedict']  to be the values with out
doing:
> for b in bl.values()

If you succeed in subverting the standard idiom, you succeed in making
your code misleading for anyone else who ever reads it.  You may also
succeed in hindering yourself from either learning the standard idiom
and understanding others' code or in understanding your own code if
you subvert it sometimes and sometimes not.  Seems like a bad idea to
me.

Terry J. Reedy





From vze4rx4y at verizon.net  Thu Jul 17 11:08:16 2003
From: vze4rx4y at verizon.net (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 15:08:16 GMT
Subject: list() coercion
References: <mailman.1058400718.22076.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <AZyRa.3985$0F4.3207@nwrdny02.gnilink.net>

"Ian Bicking" <ianb at colorstudy.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.1058400718.22076.python-list at python.org...
> I have an iterable object.  It supports many list-like methods,
> specifically __len__.  These methods are rather expensive (they result
> in database calls, COUNT(*) to be specific), but cheaper than iterating
> over the object.  Sometimes it is useful to create a list from the
> iterator, using list().  However, list() seems to call the object's
> __len__, I imagine to pre-allocate space.  This is a problem, as
> pre-allocation saves much less than is spent doing __len__.
>
> Is there a way I can keep this from happening?  Maybe something list()
> tries first that I can make fail.  (I notice list() catches any
> exceptions in __len__ and then will just skip that step)

Instead of:

    list(yourobj)

use:

    list(iter(yourobj))

If that doesn't help, create your own wrapper:

def myiter(it):
    for elem in it:
        yield it

list(myiter(yourobj))


This idea is to provide 'list' with a wrapper that only supplies
the iter methods and not the len method.


Raymond Hettinger





From bkelley at wi.mit.edu  Thu Jul 17 12:18:29 2003
From: bkelley at wi.mit.edu (Brian Kelley)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 12:18:29 -0400
Subject: Co-routines
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1058457267.26144.python-list@python.org>
References: <g7xRa.305$fF.9914@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au> <mailman.1058457267.26144.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3f16cc00$0$3932$b45e6eb0@senator-bedfellow.mit.edu>

> There is a 'Flow' module in Twisted which uses generators to 
> accomplish this sort of thing.   Basically, Twisted has a 
> queue of functions that are called, and by yielding "cooperate"
> object, you re-schedule the given generator for execution
> on this queue (allowing other code blocks to execute).
> 

Check out this article:

http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/opensource/library/l-pythrd.html?dwzone=opensource

on weightless threads, a simpler version of "Flow"

Now, my question is, could an arbitrary function's bytecode be liberally 
sprinkled with "yeilds" at run-time to achieve this effect without 
having to alter the source code?




From sholden at holdenweb.com  Tue Jul  1 23:39:04 2003
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 03:39:04 GMT
Subject: Meerkat script suddenly fails: output format changed?
Message-ID: <stsMa.363572$3n5.142228@news2.central.cox.net>

For quite a while now I've been filling part of the navigation-bar on my
home page with Python-related news extracted from O'Reilly's meerkat
service.

I've been experiencing intermittent problems for the past few days, and now
suddenly the crontab-triggered script has stopped working completely,
apparently due to a change in what Meerkat sends in response to my queries.
I've not been able to find any description af changes to Meerkat, but since
my script appears to have been unchanged for over six weeks and this error
has only just appeared, I can only assume this represent searching
ineptitude on my part.

The relevant extracts from the script are:

# Get a list of article categories from the O'Reilly Network
items = server.meerkat.getItems(
    {'search':'/[Pp]ython/','num_items':10,'descriptions':100})

and

print >> out, "<BR>\n".join(
        ["""<A href="%(link)s" class="link" target="news_win">%(title)s</A>
""" % item for item in items]

It's this last statement which is now failing, with a KeyError because
there's no "link" key in the items returned by the call to
server.meerkat.getitems(). Printing out the list of items confirms this,
with what I can only describe as a somewhat-unexpected output:

{'description': "Senator Kennedy's new inaccessible web site. On writing for
the web. The Python path module. The art", 'title': 'In brief: Superbowl
Sunday'}
{'description': "Senator Kennedy's new inaccessible web site. On writing for
the web. The Python path module. The art", 'title': 'In brief: Superbowl
Sunday'}
{'description': "Senator Kennedy's new inaccessible web site. On writing for
the web. The Python path module. The art", 'title': 'In brief: Superbowl
Sunday'}
{'description': "Senator Kennedy's new inaccessible web site. On writing for
the web. The Python path module. The art", 'title': 'In brief: Superbowl
Sunday'}
{'description': "Senator Kennedy's new inaccessible web site. On writing for
the web. The Python path module. The art", 'title': 'In brief: Superbowl
Sunday'}
{'description': "Senator Kennedy's new inaccessible web site. On writing for
the web. The Python path module. The art", 'title': 'In brief: Superbowl
Sunday'}
{'description': "Senator Kennedy's new inaccessible web site. On writing for
the web. The Python path module. The art", 'title': 'In brief: Superbowl
Sunday'}
{'description': "Senator Kennedy's new inaccessible web site. On writing for
the web. The Python path module. The art", 'title': 'In brief: Superbowl
Sunday'}
{'description': "Senator Kennedy's new inaccessible web site. On writing for
the web. The Python path module. The art", 'title': 'In brief: Superbowl
Sunday'}
{'description': "Senator Kennedy's new inaccessible web site. On writing for
the web. The Python path module. The art", 'title': 'In brief: Superbowl
Sunday'}

About the only thing I find reassuring about this output is the fact that it
explains the KeyError, and that

    http://www.oreillynet.com/meerkat/

looks equally disoriented if you search for the string "python". What gives?

Can anyone tell me a) is this something I've done, or is it somebody else's
fault, and b) how the hell do I get back to the happy state where I can get
my Python news form my home page?

regards
--
Steve Holden                                  http://www.holdenweb.com/
Python Web Programming                 http://pydish.holdenweb.com/pwp/






From mwh at python.net  Mon Jul 14 07:15:50 2003
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 11:15:50 GMT
Subject: Identity inconsistency and unification of types and classes
References: <6f03c4a5.0306301943.d822a6d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <7h3isq5nz5l.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

rimbalaya at yahoo.com (Rim) writes:

> Hi,
> 
> With the great unification of types and classes, what will happen to the
> following identity inconsistency?
> 
> >>> class myint(int): pass
> ... 
> >>> a=int(1); b=int(1)
> >>> a is b
> 1
> >>> a=myint(1); b=myint(1)
> >>> a is b 
> 0

Nothing, as is.  You can always dick about in myint.__new__ if you
really want to manage that, but as others keep saying, you shouldn't
worry about it too much.

Cheers,
M.

-- 
  My hat is lined with tinfoil for protection in the unlikely event
  that the droid gets his PowerPoint presentation working.
                               -- Alan W. Frame, alt.sysadmin.recovery



From adalke at mindspring.com  Tue Jul 22 18:18:32 2003
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 16:18:32 -0600
Subject: SAX questions...
References: <mailman.1058894673.16506.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bfkcv3$m94$1@slb0.atl.mindspring.net>

Timothy Grant:
> def startElement(self, name, attr):
>     if name == "foo":
>        do_foo_stuff()
>     elif name == "bar":
>         do_bar_stuff()
>     elif name == "baz":
>         do_baz_stuff()
  ...
> I could create a dictionary and dispatch to the correct method based on a
> dictionary key. But it seems to me there must be a better way.

  def startElement(self, name, attr):
    f = getattr(self, "do_" + name + "_stuff", None)
    if f is not None:
      f()

However, the dictionary interface is probably faster, and you can
build it up using introspection, like

class MyHandler:
    def __init__(self):
        self.start_d = {}
        self.end_d = {}
        for name in MyHandler.__dict__:
          if name.startswith("do_") and name.endswith("_stuff"):
            s = name[3:-6]
            self.start_d[s] = getattr(self, name)
         elif name.startswith("done_") and ...
            s = name[5:-6]
            self.end_d[s] = getattr(self, name)

    def startElement(self, name, attrs):
      f = self.start_d.get(name)
      if f:
        f()

    ...

                    Andrew
                    dalke at dalkescientific.com





From rmachne at meta.lo-res.org  Tue Jul 15 10:04:03 2003
From: rmachne at meta.lo-res.org (rmachne)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 16:04:03 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: newbie question: ImportError: No module named Numeric
Message-ID: <20030715155428.C48367@meta.lo-res.org>

Hi there,

Sorry, if there is a newbie list or this question is answered in tutorials
- I tried but without succes :-( -  here is my question:
Using linux,
I need the 'Numerical Python' package, and I installed it on my local
computer (not with the other packages in /usr/local/...) using

~/programs/Numeric-23.0>python setup.py install --home=/scratch/raim

but now the Numeric package / module can't be found:

~/programs/Numeric-23.0/Test> python test.py
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "test.py", line 2, in ?
    import Numeric
ImportError: No module named Numeric
Exit 1

 I couldn't find out which path variable to change or add. Can anyone
help?
(Test.py works fine when called from within the lib folder with
Numeric.py)

best
rainer




From peter at engcorp.com  Wed Jul 23 09:05:37 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 09:05:37 -0400
Subject: needs a logo
References: <7fe97cc4.0307230144.9119f89@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3F1E8821.B805306D@engcorp.com>

Xah Lee wrote:
> 
> it would be good if Bash and Python have a decent logo.

Great!  When will you have the improved logos ready for us to use?

-Peter



From mwh at python.net  Tue Jul 15 10:43:58 2003
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 14:43:58 GMT
Subject: anything like C++ references?
References: <mailman.1058190505.14930.python-list@python.org> <jkt6hvc25tc27qe2mfrsh86ut7cpvpr8r2@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <7h3vfu3n9fa.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

Stephen Horne <intentionally at blank.co.uk> writes:

> However well you explain what Python does, that doesn't mean that it
> is doing the right thing.

Doesn't mean it's wrong, either.

pointless-ly y'rs
mwh

-- 
  ARTHUR:  Yes.  It was on display in the bottom of a locked filing
           cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door
           saying "Beware of the Leopard".
                    -- The Hitch-Hikers Guide to the Galaxy, Episode 1



From mis6 at pitt.edu  Tue Jul 15 09:20:30 2003
From: mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato)
Date: 15 Jul 2003 06:20:30 -0700
Subject: Need help: Compiling Python-Code
References: <mailman.1058258723.4935.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <2259b0e2.0307150520.2487cd2@posting.google.com>

"Thomas Buschhardt" <thomas.buschhardt at iac-leipzig.de> wrote in message news:<mailman.1058258723.4935.python-list at python.org>...
> import py_compile
> pycompile.compile(Python-file)
> 
> Bye Thomas

I am sure the OP has a good reason for asking his question,
nevertheless for the sake of newbies who wonder if they should
byte-compile their scripts, here is an extract from help(py_compile):

        Note that it isn't necessary to byte-compile Python modules for
        execution efficiency -- Python itself byte-compiles a module when
        it is loaded, and if it can, writes out the bytecode to the
        corresponding .pyc (or .pyo) file.

        However, if a Python installation is shared between users, it is a
        good idea to byte-compile all modules upon installation, since
        other users may not be able to write in the source directories,
        and thus they won't be able to write the .pyc/.pyo file, and then
        they would be byte-compiling every module each time it is loaded.
        This can slow down program start-up considerably.
        

Just my 2 cents,


                      Michele



From abcdebl2nonspammy at verizon.net  Thu Jul 17 21:44:16 2003
From: abcdebl2nonspammy at verizon.net (David Lees)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 01:44:16 GMT
Subject: Regular expression help
In-Reply-To: <bf6h12$irk$0@216.39.172.122>
References: <LApRa.5420$Qe5.2628@nwrddc03.gnilink.net> <bf6h12$irk$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <QhIRa.4778$1q6.626@nwrddc04.gnilink.net>

Thank you Andrew, Fredrik and Bengt.  This is exactly what I was 
looking.  I actually have a moderate size test file (400k) so if I get 
to it, I'll post comparison times for the different methods suggested.

David




From sybrenUSE at YOURthirdtower.imagination.com  Mon Jul 14 21:44:06 2003
From: sybrenUSE at YOURthirdtower.imagination.com (Sybren Stuvel)
Date: 15 Jul 2003 01:44:06 GMT
Subject: Open MS Excel Spreadsheet with Python
References: <mailman.1058229111.12248.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrnbh6n36.4kb.sybrenUSE@sybren.thirdtower.com>

Allison Bailey enlightened us with:
> I would like to open an existing MS Excel spreadsheet and extract
> information from specific worksheets and cells.

Save the files as OpenOffice.org spreadsheets. They have an
open format, which basically boils down to a few XML files zipped up and
named something.sxc. It's about 20 minutes to make a program that
parses it.

> I think I'm missing something fairly fundamental, but I've
> googled all over the place and can't seem to find anything very
> introductory about opening and using data from MS Excel using Python.

That's probably because most sensible Open Source users make sure they
don't come anywhere close to MS Office.

Sybren
-- 
The problem with the world is stupidity. Not saying there should be a
capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the
safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself? 



From skip at pobox.com  Wed Jul  2 10:12:06 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 09:12:06 -0500
Subject: Possible fix for Bug 494589 - os.path.expandvars bug
In-Reply-To: <3F02015F.3000903@dadsetan.com>
References: <3F02015F.3000903@dadsetan.com>
Message-ID: <16130.59446.147381.375070@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    Behrang> Sorry you will be getting no patch from me at the moment since
    Behrang> sourceforge's anonymous CVS access does not like me. 

The Python project requires non-anonymous submissions for a very good
reason.  When anonymous submissions were allowed it was impossible to
contact the submitter for a followup.  This was especially bothersome for
bug reports.  If a bug report was incomplete or the bug couldn't be
reproduced, there was no choice but to close the bug report as incomplete.

Skip




From carsten at sarum.dk  Wed Jul 16 08:54:16 2003
From: carsten at sarum.dk (Carsten Gehling)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 14:54:16 +0200
Subject: Choosing the right framework
Message-ID: <BHEFKIOIMEDGILGDACKDMEIBDMAA.carsten@sarum.dk>

Oh how often this subject may come up...

The thing is, I've come to the decision of abandoning PHP as much as
possible (old projects still remain...), and use Python for all purposes.
Reason: One language to fit it all (instead of having one language for
webprogramming, one for batches, etc...)

I stand now at the point where I must choose a framework for my web
application development. I've skimmed a few: mod_python, pso and Zope.
However, I cannot decide on which to choose.

I've read descriptions and comments on
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/moinmoin/WebProgramming to get other's
opinions. The user comments are sparse though, so I've decided to ask here.

I like the ideas behind Zope. For instance the "long running process"
feature that improve performance and retain scripts between requests, among
other things. I do not, however, like the design of the management
interface, it would not appeal to my customers. I'm not yet knowledgable
enough about Zope, to know if this can be changed. Anyone who can elaborate?
(MaxM don't answer "Plone"... ;-)

mod_python seems the choice, if I want the feature of retaining scripts in
memory between requests and want to write my own managemen interface. I
don't know, if it allows for application variables (variables shared
globally between sessions).

pso looks like the framework that is easiest to deploy. If run under
mod_python, it also retains scripts in memory, but does it allow for the
aforementioned application variables? And does the performance match up
compared to mod_python and Zope?

It'll probably be run behind an Apache httpd server, so I guess Twisted is
out of the question.

What is your preferred framework? And why?

To those who would ask "What do you want to do with it", the answer is:
General purpose web application development. Porting (enhancing) of my
existing CMS (built in PHP - it's badly in need of a rewrite, so the time is
right for changing to Python).

I am to start on a new web project in the beginning of next week, and I
would like to use this opportunity to make the switch from PHP to Python.
Which is why I ask and don't just spend 2+ more weeks to dig further into
the above mentioned frameworks before making the decision.

- Carsten





From grante at visi.com  Wed Jul 23 14:25:30 2003
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 23 Jul 2003 18:25:30 GMT
Subject: How to do raw Ethernet under Win32?
Message-ID: <3f1ed31a$0$181$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>

How does one do raw Ethernet under Win32?  Ultimately, I want
to do it in a Python program, but if somebody can point me to a
clue on how to do it from C, I could probably figure out the
rest.

I want to:

 1) Send an arbitrary Ethernet packet.  [Well, not completely
    arbitrary, the source MAC will be "right", but the protocol
    number is a proprietary (not IP) one, and the packet isn't
    anything standard.

 2) Receive any incoming packets with a specified protocl
    number -- same proto number as in 1) above.
    
I've got a program that works under Linux, and I'd like to be
able to port it to Win32...

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  I have seen these
                                  at               EGG EXTENDERS in my
                               visi.com            Supermarket... I have read
                                                   theINSTRUCTIONS...



From Hobbes2176 at yahoo.com  Wed Jul  9 10:19:08 2003
From: Hobbes2176 at yahoo.com (Mark)
Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 14:19:08 GMT
Subject: Memoizing Generators
References: <pAHOa.43164$JY1.31589@nwrddc01.gnilink.net> <mailman.1057710858.5345.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <wvVOa.69102$n%5.49363@nwrddc02.gnilink.net>

Hi Michael,


Michael Sparks wrote:

> How would you deal with the following generator? (On the assumption you
> want a a general purpose memoisation mechanism :)

> <*snip* a generator reading from an input source>
 
> If your source is a network connection, or a real user this becomes
> further indeterminate... Not a suggestion to not try, just worth
> considering :)

I think one of the standard assumptions with memoization is that you have a
deterministic algorithm ... specifically, given an input, the output is
fixed.  So, your example of entering a file and getting different data,
throws typical (in my opinion ... which is by no means sacred) memoization
out the window.


> def runGenerator(fn,args,timeAlloted):
>    tstart = time.time()
>    gen = fn(args).next
>    r = gen()
>    while 1:
>       if time.time()-tstart >=timeAlloted:
>          break
>       r = gen()
>    return r

Now, this is a problem I like.  It would be pretty damn awsome to memoize a
function with 1) a time constraint and 2) a parameter that would indicate
when a time constraint is no longer sufficient and thus more work needs to
be done.  Finally, if the generator could _restart_ at the point of work
already done, you would be saving the work done to that point which is
memoization's purpose:

Something like:

runGenerator(PIdigits, None, 10)

and then later

runGenerator(PIdigits, None, 20)

Then our memoizer would say, well, I can get more digits in the extra 10
seconds .... so, I need to recompute this answer.  But wait, hopefully,
I've stored both the numerical result for 10 seconds along with the
generator that got me there.  So, all I need to do is look up the 10 second
generator and run it for another 10 seconds.  Humm, can we copy generators? 
I don't seem to think so.

So, the memoizer class would need some more logic and storage to determine
whether to return a stored result, computer a brand new result, or
bootstrap off a previous generator.  There would also need to be a
mechanism for determining just how long is "long enough" that more time
needs to be allocated (a really hard problem might not get any further in
12 seconds than it does in 9 seconds).  And we'd need a copy of the
generator so we could go from, say 10 second generator to 20 second, but
later go from 10 to 15 seconds.  Although, we could get around the problem
by using the maximally accurate result computed so far (presuming we can
look it up in the user specified time interval).  Then we'd only need the
generator at the farther point ... and we could just keep running it when
the user gives us more time.  Yeah, that could work nicely!

> 
> Consider the possibility that the function is a "next move" in chess and
> the time is set by the first player to "hard" - ie lots of time. The next
> time a player comes along with the time set to "easy", the memoised
> version won't be aware of this in this scenario and returns the hard

We could paramaterize the generator (and/or the memoizer) based on the
difficulty setting .... couldn't we?  

> result (but very quickly...), or worse hits stop iteration - which the

This is another interesting problem .... the "quick result" is actually a
means of making the game harder.

> Regards,
> Michael.

Great ideas.  I might code up the timing based memoizer for kicks.

Regards,
Mark



From grante at visi.com  Wed Jul 16 14:26:56 2003
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 16 Jul 2003 18:26:56 GMT
Subject: Python Quiz
References: <mailman.1058359706.27031.python-list@python.org> <bf3kb4$2gh$1@news.wrc.xerox.com> <3F156952.AD24AAB8@engcorp.com> <3f156c23$0$166$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <3F1573FB.8ADBE587@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <3f1598ef$0$164$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>

In article <3F1573FB.8ADBE587 at engcorp.com>, Peter Hansen wrote:

>> Though I was recently surprised that the remove() method for
>> lists uses "==" and not "is" to determine what to remove.  It's
>> documented that it works that way. But, it wasn't what I
>> excpected, and it took me a while to figure out that it was
>> using my class's __cmp__ method rather than the object ID.
> 
> Probably a very good thing, considering what would happen if 
> you were trying to remove strings from the list, rather than
> simple things like integers...

I didn't mean to imply that the way it's done isn't a good
idea, or that what I expected wasn't a bad idea.  It's just
novel to be surprised by Python -- which wasn't the case with
FORTRAN.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  My nose feels like a
                                  at               bad Ronald Reagan movie...
                               visi.com            



From grante at visi.com  Thu Jul 24 13:17:12 2003
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 24 Jul 2003 17:17:12 GMT
Subject: Put sys.stdout into binary mode?
Message-ID: <3f201498$0$177$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>

How do I make sure that sys.stdout (or sys.stdin) is in
"binary" mode?

This seems to work, is it the "right" way of doing it?

  sys.stdout = os.fdopen(sys.stdout.fileno(),'wb')

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  -- I can do
                                  at               ANYTHING... I can
                               visi.com            even... SHOPLIFT!!



From hamido at tmsk.itm.edu.my  Wed Jul  9 02:42:45 2003
From: hamido at tmsk.itm.edu.my (hamido)
Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 14:42:45 +0800
Subject: Comparing python and Perl - Network + administration
Message-ID: <3F0BB965.898DCA5C@tmsk.itm.edu.my>

Hi

I am very-very new in Pyton langguage
In my next project I will promote Python / Perl /Shell Programming
I enjoy and intensively  comparing python and Perl in term of networking
and system admionistration.

Is there any function or modules to make system administration  ( like
shell-bash, Perl) ?

TQ


#####################################################################################
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From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Mon Jul 21 21:22:48 2003
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 21:22:48 -0400
Subject: recognizing empty iterators
References: <2259b0e2.0307210626.11a1bbf1@posting.google.com> <bfhvnk$hvd$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <vhp4fm676vqh6e@news.supernews.com>

"Bengt Richter" <bokr at oz.net> wrote in message
news:bfhvnk$hvd$0 at 216.39.172.122...
> On 21 Jul 2003 07:26:15 -0700, mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato) wrote:
>
> >After a recent thread on .endswith, I have been thinking about iterators.
> >I realized that I don't know a satisfactory way to check if an
> >iterator is empty. In other words I am looking for an
> >"isempty" function to use in "if" statements such as
> >
> >if isempty(iterator):
> >   do_something()
> >
> >without side effects. Here are some unsatisfactory ways of implementing
> >"isempty":
> >
> >#1: converting to a list or tuple
> >def isempty(iterator):
> >    return not list(iterator)
> >
> >Easy, but one has to create the entire list, thus defecting the basic
> >purpose of the iterator, i.e. lazy evaluation.
> >
> >#2: checking for StopIteration
> >def isempty(iterator):
> >    try:
> >        iterator.next()
> >    except StopIteration:
> >        return True
> >    else:
> >        return False
> >
> >This works, for instance
> >
> >print isempty(iter([]))
> >
> >gives True and
> >
> >it=iter([1,2,3])
> >print isempty(it)
> >
> >gives False. However, there is a side effect: after the check, the
> >iterator has advanced of one step and now "it.next()" gives 2, not 1.
> >In order this to work without side effects, I should be able to restart
> >the iterator from the beginning, but I don't know how to do that.
> >Is it possible?
> >
> >#3: comparing with the empty iterator
> >
> >emptyiterator=iter([])
> >
> >it=iter([])
> >
> >if it == emptyiterator: print 'Ok!'
> >
> >This simply doesn't work.
> >
> >I wonder if the itertools module should contain a function to check for
> >empty iterators, thus simplifying my life ;) Of course, I may well be
> >missing something obvious, if so, please enlighten me.
> >
> If iterators had a .peek() method for 1-item lookahead, maybe that would
> be easy to implement. If empty, it could raise StopIteration, and
otherwise
> return what next() would return, without disturbing the state w.r.t.
next().
>
> Alternatively, it could return [nextitem] vs [] if at the end
> (without raising StopIteration).

I think that's two separate functions. isEmpty() is not the same
thing as willBeEmptyOnNextCall().

That said, there are places where a 1 item lookahead can be quite
valuable, and lack of a sliding window is the last major thing I'd
like to see addressed in the for loop.

John Roth

>
> Regards,
> Bengt Richter





From intentionally at blank.co.uk  Mon Jul 14 18:37:41 2003
From: intentionally at blank.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 23:37:41 +0100
Subject: Qualified appology (was Re: anything like C++ references?)
References: <b8c3hvsesjoumiboobml3nsnajtha99mp1@4ax.com> <mailman.1058129901.28248.python-list@python.org> <plk3hv0s1m2egf4s34jo6vjedk0q8r2mu9@4ax.com> <m365m6ul5c.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <1br3hv4434gn7p2pdg1bgtg8dtlak3id3s@4ax.com> <f0f51c80.0307140708.3c88363d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <jm76hvkmdqq3erpd89mcvo0l1d0sbfcivm@4ax.com>

On 14 Jul 2003 11:44:02 -0700, owski at hotmail.com (Adam Ruth) wrote:

>Stephen Horne <intentionally at blank.co.uk> wrote in message news:<1br3hv4434gn7p2pdg1bgtg8dtlak3id3s at 4ax.com>...
>> I've said my piece on meanings derived from computer science (and in
>> turn from mathematics, as it happens - variables as placeholders for
>> values predate electronic computers by quite some time.
>
>The mathematics I'm used to has a very different concept of assignment
>than does a static language like C.  Here's why.
>
>In math there are global unchanging objects called numbers, 1, 2, 3,
>etc.  If I have 2 variables, x and y and they both equal 500, then
>they both are names bound to the value 500.  They are not each copies
>of the value 500, math has no such concept, there is only one 500.

Yes.

Mathematics does have assignment - it had assignment long before
electronic computers existed because algorithms were a concept studied
in mathematics long before computers existed.

If in mathematics, if I have one variable a defined as representing
the set {1, 2, 3} and a variable y also defined as representing the
set {1, 2, 3} and I decide to change y to {1, 2, 4} then that
redefinition process does not change the value {1, 2, 3} to {1, 2, 4}.
It only changes what the variable y is currently taken to represent.

Values cannot be mutable in mathematics.

In Python, *objects* can be mutable. Values cannot be mutable because
they are values - something defined in mathematics. 1 cannot become 2.
But a variable can be reassigned to represent something else. In-place
modification of part of an object is a practical way of replacing one
value with another.

Thus, if I write...

>>> a=[1,2,3]
>>> a[2]=4
>>> a
[1, 2, 4]

Nothing is wrong. The in-place modification of part of the object that
a is bound to is basically a convenient shorthand for reassigning the
whole value of a. The value now bound to a is [1, 2, 4] rather than
[1, 2, 3]. No value has mutated. Nothing is wrong in mathematical
terms. The fact that we are using something called an object (or a
pointer to an object or whatever) to implement the binding to a value
is unimportant.

>>> a=[1,2,3]
>>> b=a
>>> b[2]=4
>>> b
[1, 2, 4]
>>> a
[1, 2, 4]

Because the variable b has been bound to an object (*NOT* a value),
the mutation has a side-effect. Changing the value bound to the
variable b also changes the value bound to a. This does *NOT* happen
in mathematics, because there is no such thing as an object.

Reassigning one variable in mathematics never implicitly redefines
another.

In short, this no longer implements a binding of values to variables
because of the side-effect of changing the value bound to a when you
change the value bound to b. The implementation detail of how the
binding from variables to values is achieved (by binding to objects)
has changed the results of running the algorithm.

In a true functional language, variables are not mutable. It doesn't
matter in the slightest if binding of variables is handled by copying
pointers to objects instead of copying objects - it is irrelevant
because copying pointers to objects achieves exactly the same thing as
copy the objects themselves - it implements a binding of value to
variable.

The object bound to a variable in Python is a low-level implementation
concept. From Guidos own words, we can see that he (at least at one
point) recognised that binding to objects in a context where those
objects can be mutable is confusing and error-prone.

The value bound to a function in mathematics is a high-level concept.

I thought Python was *supposed* to be an very high-level language?

Even C++ is higher level that this. The C++ standard libraries I've
used will optimise assignment of strings by merely copying pointers.
The sequence of events you get is something like this...

  std::string x ("Hello");
    //  x bound to object containing value "Hello"

  std::string y (x);
    //  y bound to same object as x, but with an indication that
    //  sharing is happening.

  y [4] = '!';
    //  A write to y, with the purpose of changing the value that y
    //  is bound to but not changing the value that x is changed to.
    //  Thus a copy of the object containing "Hello" is made and
    //  bound to y before applying the change. This is called
    //  copy-on-write.

In short, C++ can and often does use the pointer-copying optimisation
in the standard library. But it does so in such a way that the low
level binding of variables to objects implements the high level
binding of variables to values correctly.


It is clear now that many people are highly committed in the binding
of variables to objects done in a way that does not implement binding
of variables to values - though there seems to be fuzzy thinking used
against me just as much as my own fuzzy thinking earlier. For
instance...

On 14 Jul 2003 07:39:57 +0200, martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. L?wis)
wrote:
: And so does mine: Variables are *not* containers of values, in
: traditional mathematics. They are bound to values instead.

Python does not bind values to variables. It binds objects to
variables. Objects are how values are implemented, but they are not
the same thing.

In computer science and mathematics, the whole point of variables is
to bind a variable to a *value*. Terms such as 'store location' and
'object' are about *implementing* that binding from variable to value.

In mathematics, it doesn't matter whether you talk of variables being
placeholders for values or whether you talk of them being bound to
values. The two are equivalent, because mathematics has no concept of
objects as an implementation detail. Both terms are in common use.

In support of this, I quote someone arguing against me...

On 14 Jul 2003 11:44:02 -0700, owski at hotmail.com (Adam Ruth) wrote:

"""
C, and most static languages, have the concept of memory location,
which doesn't exist in math.  In C a variable is bound to a memory
location which contains a value, not like math where the variable
itself contains the value.  Therefore I can have two variables, x and
y, that point to their own distinct copy of 500 and when I assign a
value, it copies the 500 into the memory location bound to x.
"""

"not like math where the variable itself CONTAINS the value"

In addition, note that C++ does not copy the value. It copies a
representation of the value. Thus when you say two variables contain
"their own distinct copy of 500" what you are really saying is that
two variables contain "their own distinct copy of a representation of
the value 500". That is why you can use the operator '==' to test if
two variables contain the same value - or rather in-store
representations that represent the same value.


"""
In math there are global unchanging objects called numbers, 1, 2, 3,
etc.  If I have 2 variables, x and y and they both equal 500, then
they both are names bound to the value 500.  They are not each copies
"""

No - they are not objects, or store locations. They are global
unchanging values. And yes, variables *are* bound to values - *not*
objects.

"""
Python is more like the math form.  There is only one instance of the
number 500 and a name (variable) is bound to it or it isn't.  To
change the value of 500, then I must rebind the name, exactly in
mathematics.  However, Python differs from math in that math doesn't
have mutable values (well it may when you get into real complex
calculus, I don't know, never been there).
"""

Mutable values don't exist at all. Mutable objects do. When you mutate
a part of an object, that object now represents a new value.

Its a shorthand in Python for something that is perfectly valid in
mathematics - but not if the binding of other variables to values is
affected.

BTW - "real complex" is a contradiction in terms ;-)


Anyway, if you so love your variables binding to objects done in a way
that does not correctly implement variables binding to values for
mutable objects, fine. It simply means that Pythons users have to fuss
about the implementation of Python instead of getting on with their
applications logic, and that it will continue to cause confusion and
errors on an ongoing basis.




From ben at dadsetan.com  Wed Jul  2 14:16:01 2003
From: ben at dadsetan.com (Behrang Dadsetan)
Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 19:16:01 +0100
Subject: Possible fix for Bug 494589 - os.path.expandvars bug
References: <KJsMa.363625$3n5.222564@news2.central.cox.net>  <3F02015F.3000903@dadsetan.com> <mailman.1057150565.22876.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3F032161.7000108@dadsetan.com>

Anthony Baxter wrote:
>>>>"Steve Holden" wrote
>>>
>>"Behrang Dadsetan" <ben at dadsetan.com> wrote ...
>>
>>>Sorry you will be getting no patch from me at the moment
>>>since sourceforge's anonymous CVS access does not like me.
>>
>>[...]
>>
>>If you can figure out everything you wrote about, it can't be *that* hard to
>>create a sourceforge account ;-).
> 
> 
> I assume he's referring to the Sourceforge pserver access being... ahem... 
> well... less than good, of late, rather than being logged in to log a 
> bug or patch.
> 
> Anthony
> 

I guess my english was really bad in that sentence since you are the 
only who understood me :) I am trying to be respectful towards the tools 
that are offered to us for free... of course I can therefore no longer 
be as explicit about my actual thoughts.


I there a way for me to get a SSH CVS access?
Or will someone make/submit the patch for me?

I could of course make one based on the version of the sources I have 
but I think I would get banned from here for ever if I am unlucky and 
the sources changed enough :)


Thanks, Ben.




From clpy.NOSPAM at russellsalsbury.com  Mon Jul 21 17:18:11 2003
From: clpy.NOSPAM at russellsalsbury.com (Russ Salsbury)
Date: 21 Jul 2003 14:18:11 -0700
Subject: Guido Makes the Wall Street Journal
Message-ID: <4868482a.0307211318.8f2e6d0@posting.google.com>

Guido, Python, Larry Wall, and Perl are profiled in Lee Gomes's
Portals column in today's (21-Jul-2003) Wall Street Journal.  Nothing
very deep, but a pretty good profile of the languages and creators
targeted towards business types.  I would count it as quite favorable
publicity.  It says Python and Perl are the top two scripting
languages.  They rival C and Java in power and performance, but they
have kept their ease of use.

The article goes on to explain that languages have personalities.
There is a funny take on the differences in language philosophies. 
The Python Way comes across as "my way or the highway."  Larry Wall on
Perl, "God doesn't enforce morality on us, but prefers to let us
choose it. And if we are created in God's image, we ought to extend
the same courtsey."  I guess those of us cast out of the Garden of
Perl have no right to complain that we are bound to the whims of a mad
dictator.  We chose this path.

The article is good news, because it'll probably get an executive or
two to ask, "What is this Python stuff?"

-- Russ



From anlri at wmdata.com  Wed Jul  2 04:28:39 2003
From: anlri at wmdata.com (alr)
Date: 2 Jul 2003 01:28:39 -0700
Subject: Idiomatic way of repeating items in a sequence.
References: <f58803d.0306300326.705bad44@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <f58803d.0307020028.3118f120@posting.google.com>

Wow, tanks for alle the replies. My favourite is John Hunters/Bob
Gailers solution ([x for x in seq for i in range(repetitions)]). I had
forgotten that you could have nested for statements in list
literals... Aahz's point is taken. I happen to need to repeat lists of
strings (which are immutable), but that's not what i asked about now
is it. :-)

-- 
Regards
Andr? Risnes



From mynews44 at yahoo.com  Mon Jul 28 14:40:48 2003
From: mynews44 at yahoo.com (google account)
Date: 28 Jul 2003 11:40:48 -0700
Subject: newbie needs a little help... trying to write an ftp script.
Message-ID: <e84f5d12.0307281040.42a19391@posting.google.com>

hiya,

I am a network admin type person who has (after a bit of research and
a couple of dabblings) decided that python is the language for me.

I have read through learning python,  nad it has managed to give me a
great basis for the things I have done previously (regex manipulation
of config files,  mostly.  I got a great application built fairly
quickly that would parse an apache config,  add a VirtualHost entry, 
sort it alphabetically and sighup the deamon) but my present task is
something that doesn't really get covered in this most excellent tome.


I want to create an ftp script that will (from a windows2000 host) log
into an ftp server,  change down one directory, download specific
files from this directory (wildcard passing...?) and then log out. 
Once it has completed this task,  it should email someone to inform
them of completion status, perhaps including the output of the ftp
session.

I can't imagine that it would be too hard,  but I don't see anything
afer a google search that will give me any pointers so I was hoping I
might get some in response to this post.   I have found the ftplib, 
and the info on the python.org docs. I am needing a pointer on the
syntax,  or a bit of a (non-programmer) translation with what they
mean.

The docs suggest that I could do something like....

import ftplib
	
ftp = ftplib.FTP('172.30.30.30')  # This is wrong,  somehow...?
ftp.login(user,pass)
ftp.retrlines('LIST')  # I believe it might need to be
ftp.retrlines('ls -al')
ftp.sendcmd('prompt')
ftp.cwd('folder')
ftp.retrbinary(retr *tgz)
ftp.quit()



Or that maybe I could define a new class with something like this:

class HandleFTP(ftplib.FTP):
(I am not sure what would follow here,   but I'm thinking it might be
what I want.   This way I get to define a few functions within my own
class,  and these can capture all the server output to a text file, 
for later emailling.)

	

Basically, I am getting errors with the first line somehow,  and I am
not sure what to replace it with.

Some of these things,  the docs tell me they return a string.  Does
that mean I should initialise a string for them?  Would they not work
if that isn't happening,  or would the output just end up in
/dev/null?



Thanks for looking!

Googleboy



From claird at lairds.com  Thu Jul 31 20:36:31 2003
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Fri, 01 Aug 2003 00:36:31 -0000
Subject: Secure FTP in Python?
References: <bgbs1q$6pt$1@ns.felk.cvut.cz> <jsnov-3bk.ln1@jowls.lairds.org>
Message-ID: <vijdgfoajnnu6e@corp.supernews.com>

In article <jsnov-3bk.ln1 at jowls.lairds.org>,
Kyler Laird  <Kyler at news.Lairds.org> wrote:
>"d z e k y l" <no at nospam.no> writes:
>
>>Or is there some other
>>(noncomplicated) way how secure uploading can be implemented in Python?
>
>About anything is less needlessly complicated than FTP. 
>SSH is often the obvious choice, but WebDAV can also
>run over SSL.
>
>--kyler

rsync, in particular, is a good fit for what many people
mean by "uploading", and rsync is ssh-savvy.
-- 

Cameron Laird <Cameron at Lairds.com>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
Personal:  http://phaseit.net/claird/home.html



From ray at rays-web.com  Sun Jul  6 23:20:30 2003
From: ray at rays-web.com (Ray Smith)
Date: 6 Jul 2003 20:20:30 -0700
Subject: Python is a gem ,another successful day ....
References: <ECUNa.628$kY2.37591@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au> <am0Oa.461715$3n5.245818@news2.central.cox.net>
Message-ID: <5654fff9.0307061920.1a80bbc7@posting.google.com>

"Steve Holden" <sholden at holdenweb.com> wrote in message news:<am0Oa.461715$3n5.245818 at news2.central.cox.net>...

> I'd be interested in knowing some of the arguments you used to win over VB,
> as I've been asked to put a couple of articles together suggesting why VB
> users might consider switching to Python.

The first obvious reason is that VB 6 (which most VB users currently use) will 
be unsupported by 31-Mar-2005.
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=fh;en-us;LifeDevToolFam

The change from VB 6 to VB.Net is a huge change and in some cases a complete
re-write.  
For some features missing in .Net see:
http://www.mvps.org/vb/index2.html?rants/vfred.htm


Regards,

Ray Smith



From claird at lairds.com  Sat Jul 12 22:18:29 2003
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 02:18:29 -0000
Subject: new in town
References: <AeVPa.445271$Vi5.11496890@news1.calgary.shaw.ca> <mailman.1058024839.27499.python-list@python.org> <xBYPa.418026$3C2.11372267@news3.calgary.shaw.ca> <mailman.1058036184.22686.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <vh1gblm3rrg36e@corp.supernews.com>

In article <mailman.1058036184.22686.python-list at python.org>,
Ian Bicking  <ianb at colorstudy.com> wrote:
			.
			.
			.
>Then maybe the better answer would be: Python can be compiled into a
>Windows executable for distribution, but it cannot be compiled to
>improve speed.  If you have performance issues there are a multitude of
			.
			.
			.
Pysco <URL: http://psyco.sourceforge.net/ > is, of course,
making even the Python "cannont be compiled to improve
speed" proposition a debatable one.
-- 

Cameron Laird <Cameron at Lairds.com>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
Personal:  http://phaseit.net/claird/home.html



From ebolonev at rol.ru  Thu Jul  3 12:56:17 2003
From: ebolonev at rol.ru (Egor Bolonev)
Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 03:56:17 +1100
Subject: Reading an image file data.........
References: <mailman.1057240207.12496.python-list@python.org> <be1gml$p77$1@news.rol.ru> <3F044C9D.CE43D5F4@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <be1n8k$rfc$1@news.rol.ru>

Hello, Peter!
You wrote  on Thu, 03 Jul 2003 11:32:45 -0400:

PH> Egor Bolonev wrote:
??>>
??>> [Sorry, skipped]
PH>> That's twice I've seen you use this... what does it mean?

It's a skipper plugin for Outlook E. I select a redundant text and press the
Skip button.
Should I change a label?

http://www.fidolook.com/

With best regards, Egor Bolonev.  E-mail: ebolonev at rol.ru [ru eo en]




From pyth at devel.trillke.net  Fri Jul 25 15:56:02 2003
From: pyth at devel.trillke.net (holger krekel)
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 21:56:02 +0200
Subject: path module
In-Reply-To: <1059160667.28096.10876.camel@lothlorien>; from ianb@colorstudy.com on Fri, Jul 25, 2003 at 02:17:48PM -0500
References: <1057651068.5348.386.camel@lothlorien> <20030708113219.H6906@prim.han.de> <mailman.1057686613.6463.python-list@python.org> <11234c14.0307211016.344d40bc@posting.google.com> <mailman.1059144006.6426.python-list@python.org> <just-8DDA38.17221725072003@news1.news.xs4all.nl> <20030725184158.O6906@prim.han.de> <1059155133.24478.10738.camel@lothlorien> <20030725203322.P6906@prim.han.de> <1059160667.28096.10876.camel@lothlorien>
Message-ID: <20030725215602.Q6906@prim.han.de>

Ian Bicking wrote:
> On Fri, 2003-07-25 at 13:33, holger krekel wrote:
> > We currently only have one 'visit' method that accepts a filter for returning
> > results and a filter for recursing into the tree. 
> > ...
> > This proved to be flexible and convenient and mostly avoids
> > the need for multiple walk-methods.  
> 
> Yeah... but we know that's not going to get into the standard library. 
> It requires a big namespace, logic functions (AND, OR, etc.), and it
> confuses functions with these filter objects, which are named the same
> (and even if the filter objects can be used as functions, it's still
> confusing).  It's a style that doesn't exist in the standard library,
> and it seems unlikely that it would get in here.

Maybe right.  This is not my first priority, anyway, but i also thought that
functional style is just not liked among the builtins. 

Anyway, the "filter functions" are indeed just callables which accept 
Path objects. You could as well take the unbound method Path.isdir 
but this feels ugly and isn't flexible enough.  

I don't exactly know what you mean by "big namespace". The filters are 
all contained in a 'filter' submodule because they can apply to 
multiple Path implementations anyway. 

> The multiple walk methods would only be a shortcut anyway.  Again, they
> might be difficult in a situation like a URL where directory and file
> are intermingled (and maybe ReiserFS 4...?) -- which maybe is okay, a
> urlpath object simply wouldn't implement that walker.

Yep, URL pathes have no notion of directories and files.  Thus a general 
URL path can't have a 'listdir' method and thus we can't recurse.  
You can easily special case it for Apache's "Indexes" view, though :-)

    holger




From hokiegal99 at hotmail.com  Sat Jul 19 09:36:41 2003
From: hokiegal99 at hotmail.com (hokiegal99)
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 09:36:41 -0400
Subject: using functions and file renaming problem
References: <3F174E76.4000302@hotmail.com> <mailman.1058531368.14359.python-list@python.org> <3F1871A5.3020702@hotmail.com> <mailman.1058617770.12505.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3F194969.6020807@hotmail.com>

My scripts aren't long and complex, so I don't really *need* to use 
functions. But the idea of using them is appealing to me because it 
seems the right thing to do from a design point of view. I can see how 
larger, more complex programs would get out of hand if the programmer 
did not use functions so they'd be absolutely necessary there. But if 
they allow larger programs to have a better overall design that's more 
compact and readable (like your examples showed) then one could argue 
that they would do the same for smaller, simplier programs too.

Thanks for the indepth explanation. It was very helpful. I'm going to 
try using functions within my fix_files.py script.


Andy Jewell wrote:
> On Friday 18 Jul 2003 11:16 pm, hokiegal99 wrote:
> 
>>Thanks again for the help Andy! One last question: What is the advantage
>>of placing code in a function? I don't see how having this bit of code
>>in a function improves it any. Could someone explain this?
>>
>>Thanks!
> 
> 8<--- (old quotes)
> 
> The 'benefit' of functions is only really reaped when you have a specific need 
> for them!  You don't *have* to use them if you don't *need* to (but they can 
> still improve the readability of your code).  
> 
> Consider the following contrived example:
> 
> ----------8<------------
> # somewhere in the dark recesses of a large project...
> . . . 
> for filename in os.listdir(cfg.userdir):
>     newname = filename
>     for ch in cfg.badchars:
>         newname.replace(ch,"-")
>     if newname != filename:
>         os.rename(os.path.join(cfg.userdir,filename),
>                            os.path.join(cfg.userdir,newname)
> . . .
> . . .
> # in another dark corner...
> 
> . . . 
> for filename in os.listdir(cfg.tempdir):
>     newname = filename
>     for ch in cfg.badchars:
>         newname.replace(ch,"-")
>     if newname != filename:
>         os.rename(os.path.join(cfg.userdir,filename),
>                            os.path.join(cfg.userdir,newname)
> . . .
> # somewhere else...
> 
> . . . 
> for filename in os.listdir(cfg.extradir):
>     newname = filename
>     for ch in cfg.badchars: 
>         newname.replace(ch,"-")
>     if newname != filename:
>         os.rename(os.path.join(cfg.userdir,filename),
>                            os.path.join(cfg.userdir,newname)
> . . .
> ----------8<------------
> 
> See the repetition? ;-)
> 
> Imagine a situation where you need to do something far more complicated over, 
> and over again...  It's not very programmer efficient, and it makes the code 
> longer, too - thus costing more to write (time) and more to store (disks).
> 
> Imagine having to change the behaviour of this 'hard-coded' routine, and what 
> would happen if you missed one... however, if it is in a function, you only 
> have *one* place to change it.
> 
> When we generalise the algorithm and put it into a function we can do:
> 
> ----------8<------------
> 
> . . .
> . . .
> 
> # somewhere near the top of the project code...
> def cleanup_filenames(dir):
> 
>     """ renames any files within dir that contain bad characters 
>         (ie. ones in cfg.badchars).  Does not walk the directory tree.
>     """
> 
>     for filename in os.listdir(dir):
>         newname = filename
>         for ch in cfg.badchars:
>             newname.replace(ch,"-")
>         if newname != filename:
>             os.rename(os.path.join(cfg.userdir,filename),
>                                os.path.join(cfg.userdir,newname)
> 
> . . .
> . . .
> 
> # somewhere in the dark recesses of a large project...
> . . . 
> cleanup_filenames(cfg.userdir)
> . . .
> . . .
> # in another dark corner...
> . . . 
> cleanup_filenames(cfg.tempdir)
> . . .
> # somewhere else...
> . . . 
> cleanup_filenames(cfg.extradir)
> . . .
> 
> ----------8<------------
> 
> Even in this small, contrived example, we've saved about 13 lines of code (ok, 
> that's notwithstanding the blank lines and  the """ docstring """ at the top 
> of the function).
> 
> There's another twist, too.  In the docstring for cleanup_filenames it says 
> "Does not walk the directory tree." because we didn't code it to deal with 
> subdirectories.  But we could, without using os.walk...
> 
> Directories form a tree structure, and the easiest way to process trees is by 
> using /recursion/, which means functions that call themselves.  An old 
> programmer's joke is this:
> 
>     Recursion, defn.  [if not understood] see Recursion.
> 
> Each time you call a function, it gets a brand new environment, called the 
> 'local scope'.  All variables inside this scope are private; they may have 
> the same names, but they refer to different objects.  This can be really 
> handy...
> 
> ----------8<------------
> 
> def cleanup_filenames(dir):
> 
>     """ renames any files within dir that contain bad characters 
>         (ie. ones in cfg.badchars).  Walks the directory tree to process
>         subdirectories.
>     """
> 
>     for filename in os.listdir(dir):
>         newname = filename
>         for ch in cfg.badchars:
>             newname.replace(ch,"-")
>         if newname != filename:
>             os.rename(os.path.join(cfg.userdir,filename),
>                                os.path.join(cfg.userdir,newname)
>         # recurse if subdirectory...
>         if os.path.isdir(os.path.join(cfg.userdir,newname)):
>             cleanup_filenames(os.path.join(cfg.userdir,newname))
> 
> ----------8<------------
> 
> This version *DOES* deal with subdirectories...  with only two extra lines, 
> too!  Trying to write this without recursion would be a nightmare (even in 
> Python).
> 
> A very important thing to note, however, is that there is a HARD LIMIT on the 
> number of times a function can call itself, called the RecursionLimit:
> 
> ----------8<------------
> 
>>>>n=1
>>>>def rec():
>>>
>         n=n+1
>         rec()
> 
> 
>>>>rec()
>>>
> . . .
> (huge traceback list)
> . . .
> RuntimeError: maximum recursion limit reached.
> 
>>>>n
>>>
> 991
> ----------8<------------
> 
> Another very important thing about recursion is that a recursive function 
> should *ALWAYS* have a 'get-out-clause', a condition that stops the 
> recursion.  Guess what happens if you don't have one ... ;-) 
> 
> Finally (at least for now), functions also provide a way to break down your 
> code into logical sections.  Many programmers will write the higher level 
> functions first, delegating 'complicated bits' to further sub-functions as 
> they go, and worry about implementing them once they've got the overall 
> algorithm finished.  This allows one to concentrate on the right level of 
> detail, rather than getting bogged down in the finer points: you just make up 
> names for functions that you're *going* to implement later.  Sometimes, you 
> might make a 'stub' like:
> 
> def doofer(dooby, doo):
>     pass
> 
> so that your program is /syntactically/ correct, and will run (to a certain 
> degree).  This allows debugging to proceed before you have written 
> everything.  You'd do this for functions which aren't *essential* to the 
> program, but maybe add 'special features', for example, additonal 
> error-checking or output formatting.
> 
> A sort of extension of the function  idea is 'modules', which make functions 
> and other objects available to other 'client' programs.  When you say:
> 
> import os
> 
> you are effectively adding all the functions and objects of the os module into 
> your own program, without having to re-write them.  This enables programmers
> to share their functions and other code as convenient 'black boxes'.  Modules, 
> however, are a slightly more advanced topic.
> 
> 
> Hope that helps.
> 
> -andyj
> 
> 
> 





From just at xs4all.nl  Tue Jul  8 06:11:52 2003
From: just at xs4all.nl (Just)
Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 12:11:52 +0200
Subject: path module
References: <1057651068.5348.386.camel@lothlorien> <mailman.1057656790.5578.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <just-DEB682.12115208072003@news1.news.xs4all.nl>

In article <mailman.1057656790.5578.python-list at python.org>,
 holger krekel <pyth at devel.trillke.net> wrote:

> I am pretty sure that virtual-fs-like-extensibility would be a big 
> "selling" point and would motivate the use of such a module and
> finally the inclusion into the stdlib. Of course, the local-fs should
> be the convenient case but it shouldn't be hard to use the same methods 
> for accessing remote "repositories". 

Excellent point!

Just



From bogal2 at comcast.net  Sun Jul 13 15:48:06 2003
From: bogal2 at comcast.net (BogAl)
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 14:48:06 -0500
Subject: Can't install csv parser
Message-ID: <MPG.197b80c54e88b1489896a6@news.in.comcast.giganews.com>

Hi, all....

I'm hoping someone can help me.  I've downloaded the csv.pyd file from 
http://www.object-craft.com.au/projects/csv/download.html
and put it into my C:\Python22\DLLs directory.  Typing

import csv

into a python window results in the following error message:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<pyshell#0>", line 1, in ?
    import csv
ImportError: DLL load failed: One of the library files needed to run this 
application cannot be found.

Can someone help me get this running?

Thanks,
BogAl



From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Sun Jul 13 04:58:11 2003
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 04:58:11 -0400
Subject: Windows XP - Environment variable - Unicode
References: <3f0e77fc@epflnews.epfl.ch> <vgvtb26kob5035@news.supernews.com> <3F10795B.9000501@v.loewis.de>
Message-ID: <vh27ooiajenv87@news.supernews.com>

"Martin v. L?wis" <martin at v.loewis.de> wrote in message
news:3F10795B.9000501 at v.loewis.de...
> John Roth wrote:
>
> > I don't think encoding is an issue. Windows XP stores all character data
as
> > unicode internally, so whatever you get back from os.environ() is either
> > going to be unicode, or it's going to be translated back to some single
byte
> > code by Python.
>
> Read the source, Luke.

I haven't gotten into the Python source, and my name is not Luke.
Also, don't respond to my e-mail address. Unfortunately, I had a problem
where I had to reload my system, and it's gotten out  to usenet. It used
to go to an ISP I no longer have an account with.

> Python uses environ, which is a C library
> variable pointing to byte strings, so no Unicode here.

The OP's question revolved around ***which*** code page was
being used internally. Windows uses Unicode. That's not the same
question as what code set Python uses to attempt to translate Unicode
into a single byte character set.

>  > In the latter case, you may not be able to recover non-ascii
> > values, so Rob Willscroft's workaround to get the unicode version may be
> > your only hope.
>
> You are certainly able to recover non-ascii values, as long as they
> only use CP_ACP.

I said "may not," not "cannot in any and all circumstances."

> > If you're getting a standard string though, I'd try using Latin-1, or
the
> > Windows equivalent first (it's got an additional 32 characters that
aren't in
> > Latin-1.)
>
> That, in general, is wrong. It is only true for the Western European and
> American editions of Windows. In all other installations, CP_ACP differs
> significantly from Latin-1.

The OP's problem was a character that's in the Western European range.

> > Note that Release 2.3 fixes the unicode problems for files under XP.
> > It's currently in late beta, though. I don't know if it fixes the
> > os.environ()
>
> It doesn't. "Fixing" something here is less urgent and more difficult,
> as environment variables rarely exceed CP_ACP.

Less urgent I can see, unless you're concerned about whether Python
survives against systems that do it right. Now that the Windows 9x
series is dying off, the vast majority of systems on the desktop are
going to have Unicode support internally. Granted, Python is not
targeted at "the vast majority of systems," but if you can't easily get
Unicode from the environment and the registry, then it's not very
useful for system administration tasks or automation tasks on
Windows.

Many, if not most, environment variables are file names. If file
names need Unicode support, then so do environment variables.

As to more difficult, as I said above, I haven't perused the source,
so I can't comment on that. If I had to do it myself, I'd probably
start out by always using the Unicode variant of the Windows API
call, and then check the type of the arguement to environ() to determine
which to pass back. I'm not sure whether or not I'd throw an exception
if the actual value couldn't be translated to the current SBCS code.

> If people get support for Unicode environment variables, they want
> Unicode command line arguments next.

Why not? I can enter a command with Unicode at the Windows
command prompt, and that command is likely to contain file names.
Same problem raising it's head in a different spot.

John Roth

On reading this over, it does sound a bit more strident than my
responses usually do, but I will admit to being irritated at the
assumption that you need to read the source to find out the
answer to various questions.

> Regards,
> Martin
>





From http  Mon Jul 21 18:53:14 2003
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 21 Jul 2003 15:53:14 -0700
Subject: Possible use of Python for a voting machine demo project -- your feedback requested
References: <P9DSa.111436$Io.9552373@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <bff56e$8iv$1@slb9.atl.mindspring.net> <zXFSa.111727$Io.9572470@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <bfh7rs$hmv$1@slb4.atl.mindspring.net> <hekohvcn9ibe3dik8g7vb2136768e67id7@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <7xbrvnmqzp.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Marc Wilson <marc at cleopatra.co.uk> writes:
> FWIW, in the UK, the ballots are normally done by the lowest-tech method:
> you're given a ballot, and a pencil, and you put an "X" in a box next to the
> one you like.  We don't have problems with chads, etc.

In the US you have the inalienable right to vote for anyone you want
for office, including for yourself, your girlfriend, your
mother-in-law, or whatever.  So for example, the optical scan ballots
for the presidential election in Volusia County, Florida in 2000
looked something like this:

  ( ) Bush
  ( ) Gore
  ( ) Buchanan
  ( ) Nader
  ( ) Other (write in): ___________________________

If you wanted to vote for your mother-in-law for President, you'd
check "Other" and write her name there.  If enough other people did
that everywhere in the US, hey, your mother-in-law could become
president!  (Don't hold your breath though).

Trouble starts when you ask what happens if more than one box is checked.
If you check both "Bush" and "Nader", there's no way to tell what candidate
you wanted, so your ballot is declared invalid.  Fine.  If you check
"Bush" and also check "Other" and write your mother-in-law's name in
the blank, same thing.  So the company that programmed the scanning
machines thought this issue easy to deal with: if more than one box
is checked, the ballot is labeled as an "overvote" and is invalid.

But what if you check "Bush" and also check "Other", and in the blank
you write "Bush"?  Then there's no ambiguity, it's clear who you want,
so it's a legal vote and it must be counted (and Florida law requires
that it be counted, though establishing that takes some careful
reading).  But the machines make no attempt to read the write-in
blank.  They just don't count those votes despite what the law
requires.

And who would be dumb enough to mark their ballot like that?  It turns
out that 488 people in Volusia County alone (some for Bush and some
for Gore), and more in other counties, did so.  Whether this happened
because of some confusion in the printed voting instructions, or bad
instructions given verbally to voters, or some other reason, is
unknown.  It was not discovered until after the state totals had
already been reported, because the lawyers busy fighting over the
ballot counts in other parts of the state didn't realize that so many
such "overvoted" legal ballots existed and didn't go looking for them.
Had they figured it out and noticed, that could have forced deeper
examination of a number of other results in the state, and a different
guy might have ended up in the White House than the guy who's there now.

There are a lot of not-so-obvious possibilities that any counting
scheme has to take into account.  Getting anything wrong can have
potentially far-reaching consequences.

> We've also started, in some areas, voting by phone or internet.
> Very simple system- you get a polling card with a number and a PIN,
> you go to a HTTPS website, log in and vote.  Has to be done *before*
> the "manual" ballot opens, so the returning officer knows who's
> already voted.

That doesn't sound like a great idea.  Suppose you cast that vote
a week before the normal election day.  Then two days before election
day, it comes out that the leading candidate committed a number of
murders that got covered up til then.  You voted with less information
than the other voters had.  In fact, that candidate, fearful that
the news might come out at any moment, may have encouraged all his
supporters to vote early.  For a fair election, all voting should be
done on the same day.  This is another reason mail-in absentee voting
should be curtailed.



From akineko at pacbell.net  Mon Jul  7 13:21:38 2003
From: akineko at pacbell.net (Aki Niimura)
Date: 7 Jul 2003 10:21:38 -0700
Subject: upload file via web form (Re: to Trent Mick's posting)
Message-ID: <b714b8de.0307070921.350f841a@posting.google.com>

Hello everyone,

Trent Mick wrote:
> """Some httplib helper methods."""
>
> def httprequest(url, postdata={}, headers={}):
>     """A urllib.urlopen() replacement for http://... that gets the
>     content-type right for multipart POST requests.
> 
>     "url" is the http URL to open.
>     "postdata" is a dictionary describing data to post. If the dict is
> ... snip ...

I have tried the above script and found not working.
After comparing the contents of the packets (captured by tcpdump) between
the one generated by the above script and the one generated by Netscape,
I found the 'body' doesn't have CRLF ('\n\r') which some servers may
consider it as a line terminator (for MIMIE headers).

After I inserted the following line:
body = string.replace(body, '\n', '\r\n')
It is working correctly.

Thank you for providing such excellent script. I would like to see such
methods in the future Python standard distribution.

Best regards,
Aki Niimura



From leo.broska at NOSPAM.isys.com.au  Tue Jul  1 04:52:49 2003
From: leo.broska at NOSPAM.isys.com.au (Leo)
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 18:52:49 +1000
Subject: new to python - looking for a good book
References: <bdpm5v$g3d$1@info.service.rug.nl>
Message-ID: <bdri2f$ogg$1@otis.netspace.net.au>

i've just started, too and i like  "programming python" from mark lutz.

that's somthing to make you interested what's psossible with python. for
syntax etc i use the doc frompython.org.

cheers, leooo


"jodocus" <johocus at zonnet.nl> wrote in message
news:bdpm5v$g3d$1 at info.service.rug.nl...
> hi,
>
> I am new to python (but not to programming - have programmed in many
> other languages like C++/lisp/perl etc.) and I would like to buy a good
> book. The local bookstore has no books about Python, so I cannot look
> into a book and see whether I like it. That is why I turned to this
> newsgroup for advise.
>
> I would like a book with a very complete and correct description of the
> language and the built-in features, and things like how to integrate
> programs with C or C++. I am not looking for a beginner's handbook with
> all kinds of simple examples (since I already know how to program), but
> rather a good formal description of all the features of the language
> (with a good structure and index, so I can use it as a reference).
>
> I already saw one book at an on-line bookstore that is probably good:
> "Programming Python" by Mark Lutz from O'reilly
>
> Would you advise me to order this one or are there other books I should
> know about?
>
> TIA,
>
> R.
>





From psimmo60 at hotmail.com  Thu Jul  3 07:32:21 2003
From: psimmo60 at hotmail.com (Paul Simmonds)
Date: 3 Jul 2003 04:32:21 -0700
Subject: My Big Dict.
References: <mailman.1057119003.11991.python-list@python.org> <20030702073735.40293ba2.christophe.delord@free.fr> <TXvMa.9902$BM.3065756@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com> <bdua4i$18el$1@biggoron.nerim.net> <94974e1a.0307020532.1cb19956@posting.google.com> <mailman.1057162092.18394.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <94974e1a.0307030332.138a7054@posting.google.com>

Christian Tismer <tismer at tismer.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.1057162092.18394.python-list at python.org>...
> Paul Simmonds wrote:
> ...
> I'm not trying to intrude this thread, but was just
> struck by the list comprehension below, so this is
> about readability.
<snipped>
> >
> > d=dict([(l[:l.index('!')],l[l.index('!')+1:-1])\
> >        for l in file('test.txt') if l.count('!')])
>
> With every respect, this looks pretty much like another
> P-language. The pure existance of list comprehensions
> does not try to force you to use it everywhere :-)
>

Quite right. I think that mutation came from the fact that I was
thinking in C all day. Still, I don't even write C like that...it
should be put to sleep ASAP.

<snip>
> > d={}
> > for l in file("test.txt"):
> >     try: i=l.index('!')
> >     except ValueError: continue
> >     d[l[:i]]=l[i+1:]
> 
> About speed: I'm not sure with the current Python
> version, but it might be worth trying to go without
> the exception:
> 
> d={}
> for l in file("test.txt"):
>      i=l.find('!')
>      if i >= 0:
>          d[l[:i]]=l[i+1:]
> 
> and then you might even consider to split on the first
> "!", but I didn't do any timings:
> 
> d={}
> for l in file("test.txt"):
>      try:
>          key, value = l.split("!", 1)
>      except ValueError: continue
>      d[key] = value
> 
Just when you think you know a language, an optional argument you've
never used pops up to make your life easier. Thanks for pointing that
out.

I've done some timings on the functions above, here are the results:

Python2.2.1, 200000 line file(all data lines)
try/except with split:   3.08s
    if     with slicing: 2.32s
try/except with slicing: 2.34s

So slicing seems quicker than split, and using if instead of
try/except appears to speed it up a little more. I don't know how much
faster the current version of the interpreter would be, but I doubt
the ranking would change much.

Paul



From ianb at colorstudy.com  Fri Jul 25 21:48:07 2003
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: 25 Jul 2003 20:48:07 -0500
Subject: path module
In-Reply-To: <TxkUa.8061$Nh3.45265186@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com>
References: <1057651068.5348.386.camel@lothlorien>
	 <20030708113219.H6906@prim.han.de>
	 <mailman.1057686613.6463.python-list@python.org>
	 <11234c14.0307211016.344d40bc@posting.google.com>
	 <mailman.1059144006.6426.python-list@python.org>
	 <just-8DDA38.17221725072003@news1.news.xs4all.nl>
	 <mailman.1059151446.8466.python-list@python.org>
	 <TxkUa.8061$Nh3.45265186@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <1059184087.28095.11575.camel@lothlorien>

On Fri, 2003-07-25 at 20:10, Van Gale wrote:
> Interesting, I started a project modifying Jason's Path module to work 
> on subversion trees as well.  I didn't get too far before putting the 
> project on a back-burner so I'm glad to hear someone else is thinking 
> the same way :)
> 
> My extensions to Path included an additional argument to "open" that 
> included a version number, and a mechanism for retrieving some kind of 
> "metadata" associated with the file.

It's interesting that different kinds of filesystems (or
filesystem-like-things) have very different kinds of metadata
available.  Like last-modified, last-accessed, inode (identity),
version, title, branch, mimetype, log message, etc.  And then there's
information that's not quite metadata... like <link ref> data, or the
volume name, the host, etc.

I feel like a common interface for these different filesystems should
somehow degrade well in terms of metadata, or expedite introspection in
some fashion.

The differences on the client side are probably easier to handle, as
they can be handled by the constructor, which might look different for
different filesystems.  Like url('http://whatever', user='bob',
password='secret', proxy='http://myproxy'), or
cvs(pserver='cvs.sourceforge.net', repository='python').  Or should
there be a string-based representation (i.e., URIs)?  Of course for
symmetry then __str__ would always return a URI, but for many
circumstances we'd prefer a more concise notation, like a filesystem
path (though most other cases would be acceptable squeezed into URIs).


I'd have placed the version in the object itself, not as an argument to
open.  Then you'd want to query for alternate versions, most recent
version -- maybe some version identifier that meant most recent... a
similar situation might be language negotiation with an HTTP file.

  Ian






From hokiegal99 at hotmail.com  Wed Jul 16 10:04:29 2003
From: hokiegal99 at hotmail.com (hokiegal99)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 10:04:29 -0400
Subject: <> and !=
References: <3F154B63.3060503@hotmail.com> <3F154BBD.2060304@hotmail.com> <3jlahv8o1fcu2j0oij2p31c32nftnb3er8@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3F155B6D.8000205@hotmail.com>

Gon?alo Rodrigues wrote:
> On Wed, 16 Jul 2003 08:57:33 -0400, hokiegal99
> <hokiegal99 at hotmail.com> wrote:
> 
> 
>>that sould be:
>>
>>if newfile <> oldfile
>>if newfile != oldfile
> 
> 
> No difference whatsoever. I believe != is prefered (style guide?)
> though -- and that's the one I always use.
> 
> With my best regards,
> G. Rodrigues

Thank you, that is what I thought. What's the reason for having two 
symbols mean the same thing?




From mhammond at skippinet.com.au  Wed Jul 23 19:46:56 2003
From: mhammond at skippinet.com.au (Mark Hammond)
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 09:46:56 +1000
Subject: PyIStream and COM question for WinGraphViz
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1058997397.5615.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1058997397.5615.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bfn6pd$2rv1$2@arachne.labyrinth.net.au>

Simon Frost wrote:

> Dear Python List,
> 
> I'd like to write a COM interface to WinGraphViz 
> (http://home.so-net.net.tw/oodtsen/wingraphviz/). I would like to dump 
> my image to a PyIStream, but I can't find any documentation on how to do 
> this.
> 
> Here's the syntax for the COM interface
> 
> ProgramID: WinGraphviz.BinaryImage
>  Dump(IStream stream) as Boolean
> 
> I would like to do something like
> istream=PyIStream(...)
> myBinaryImage.Dump(istream)
> 
> and then go on to display the image.
> 
> Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Presumably this is a method on the COM object.  You want to create a 
stream object, pass it to the library, and have it "dump" to your object?

If so, check our win32com\test\testStreams for examples of Python 
implemented IStream interfaces.

Mark





From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Fri Jul 11 16:22:39 2003
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 11 Jul 2003 16:22:39 -0400
Subject: Embedding Python, threading and scalability
References: <ec23a1ae.0307081354.5fc06cb@posting.google.com> <mailman.1057877718.17081.python-list@python.org> <beku19$r61$1@panix2.panix.com> <mailman.1057941919.10103.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ben6af$sav$1@panix2.panix.com>

In article <mailman.1057941919.10103.python-list at python.org>,
Jeff Epler  <jepler at unpythonic.net> wrote:
>On Thu, Jul 10, 2003 at 07:48:57PM -0400, Aahz wrote:
>> In article <mailman.1057877718.17081.python-list at python.org>,
>> Jeff Epler  <jepler at unpythonic.net> wrote:
>>>On Thu, Jul 10, 2003 at 03:54:14PM -0400, Aahz wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Other people have mentioned Perl and Tcl in this thread.  I wonder how
>>>> they deal with the problem of loading DLLs with static data.
>>>
>>>As far as I know, tcl enforces a one interpreter to one thread
>>>requirement.  An extension should have only thread-local data, using a
>>>Tcl-supplied API.
>> 
>> What happens when Tcl wants to interact with some 3rd-party DLL that is
>> *not* thread-safe?
>
>I guess you'd have to do your own locking.  Tcl has standard C APIs for
>Conditions, Mutexes, and thread-specific data, see the Thread(3) manpage.
>You'd have to surround all non-reentrant calls with Tcl_MutexLock(m)
>... Tcl_MutexUnlock(m).  If two extensions wanted to use the same
>non-thread-safe library, they'd have to cooperate in some way to use
>the same 'm' to Tcl_Mutex*().  I don't know if there's a standard way to
>do this, but I think that having the mutex defined in a shared lib they
>both link might work.

Yup.  And that's exactly why there has been little movement to remove
the GIL from Python.  One of Python's core strengths is the ease with
which random DLLs can be used from Python.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"Not everything in life has a clue in front of it...."  --JMS



From martin at v.loewis.de  Sun Jul 20 17:04:41 2003
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-15?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 20 Jul 2003 23:04:41 +0200
Subject: A challenge to the ASCII proponents.
References: <mailman.1058665173.19987.python-list@python.org> <3F1AAC0A.7A6326B@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <m3y8ysnc46.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Alan Kennedy <alanmk at hotmail.com> writes:

> 2. The only other person who managed it, without using markup, was
> Martin von Loewis, who is so good at this stuff that he confidently
> makes statements like "what I did was right: it was Google that got it
> wrong". Martin used the UTF-8 character set, i.e. a non-ASCII,
> non-7-bit-clean character set, to achieve this. Although I'm sure
> Martin could have managed it with UTF-7 as well.

It wasn't that hard to do: I only had to ask my newsreader to sent the
message as UTF-8. If my newsreader had chosen a
content-transfer-encoding of base64 or quoted-printable, it even would
have been 7-bit clean.

> 3. If anybody else was willing to give it a try, they don't seem to
> have had enough confidence in their knowledge of encodings, MIME,
> transports, NNTP, etc, etc, to have actually hit the "send" button, in
> case it didn't work. Which doesn't bode well for the average person in
> the street: if the technology specialists in this newsgroup don't feel
> in command of the issue, what hope for everyone else?

It's a matter of time. Web browsers are ahead of all other software,
here, as they first hit the problem of displaying content in a wide
variety of languages. Over time, most email agents and news readers
will catch up, getting it right without bothering the user.

It is not that MIME is more complicated than XML, on the contrary. 
It is just that authors of MIME software, for some reason, don't
care that much about these issues.

Regards,
Martin



From bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au  Sat Jul 12 00:22:32 2003
From: bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au (Ben Finney)
Date: 12 Jul 2003 14:12:32 +0950
Subject: The "intellectual property" misnomer
References: <mailman.1057978117.8939.python-list@python.org> <slrnbgv1c7.q1.bignose-hates-spam@rose.localdomain.fake> <k8MPa.1892$3G5.1669@nwrdny03.gnilink.net>
Message-ID: <slrnbgv4do.q1.bignose-hates-spam@rose.localdomain.fake>

On Sat, 12 Jul 2003 04:29:04 GMT, Raymond Hettinger wrote:
>> >> If the PSF holds the copyright to Python, please say that.  If the
>> >> PSF holds patents which cover Python, please say that.  If the PSF
>> >> owns the trademark for Python, please say that.  If the PSF has
>> >> trade secrets in Python, please say that.
> 
> PSF is the copyright holder and issuer of the python license to the
> code covered by that copyright.

Excellent.  So "The PSF is the copyright holder for Python".  No need
for gymnastics, and it actually says something meaningful.

> In layman's terms, it means exactly what Guido said.

The layman's understanding of "intellectual property" is confused,
doesn't relate to reality, and is harmful.  Please avoid use of that
term.

> Hope this helps,

It does, thanks.

-- 
 \                   "The best is the enemy of the good."  -- Voltaire |
  `\                                                                   |
_o__)                                                                  |
http://bignose.squidly.org/ 9CFE12B0 791A4267 887F520C B7AC2E51 BD41714B



From donn at drizzle.com  Wed Jul 16 23:51:24 2003
From: donn at drizzle.com (Donn Cave)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 03:51:24 -0000
Subject: anything like C++ references?
References: <qlq8hv8e7a5177o250c2fhvg9hv2lhfa15@4ax.com>   <20030715200433927-0600@news.xmission.com>   <1058328099.572993@yasure>   <20030716081156943-0600@news.xmission.com>   <donn-6E63A0.10284316072003@nntp1.u.washington.edu>   <20030716123907246-0600@news.xmission.com>   <donn-F604B9.12121916072003@nntp3.u.washington.edu>   <20030716142716509-0600@news.xmission.com>  <donn-708BC2.14330716072003@nntp3.u.washington.edu> <20030716161405965-0600@news.xmission.com>
Message-ID: <1058413882.4140@yasure>

Quoth Adam Ruth <owski at hotmail.com>:
...
| "there aren't any situations that I care about where you can't avoid 
| pointers." is certainly true.  But I still believe that there aren't any 
| situations where the use of a pointer would provide a substantially 
| better solution to the non-pointer route.  Any examples I've seen so far 
| have non-pointer implementations that are just as good or better (of 
| course, 'better' is a completely loaded word).  

Loaded or whatever, as I've said, it's not an interesting issue in
this context.  If we were actually trying to decide how user indexing
should work, then it might be interesting to compare these two
semantically different approaches, but then it might not - because
the one I propose can't be implemented in Python.  And that's the
point, Python just cannot go there, because it lacks pointers.
Whether you want to go there is not really interesting to anyone
but you.

	Donn Cave, donn at drizzle.com



From max at alcyone.com  Fri Jul 18 02:29:40 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 23:29:40 -0700
Subject: How do I get info on an exception ?
References: <fc07672ed11f5dcad539bcf9bf0d051f@news.1usenet.com>
Message-ID: <3F1793D4.E6EEF8A1@alcyone.com>

Frank wrote:

> Using Python 2.2.2,
> I want to catch all exceptions from "socket.gethostbyaddr(ip)"
> 
> From IDLE, I can generate:
> >>> socket.gethostbyaddr('1.2')
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<pyshell#28>", line 1, in ?
>     socket.gethostbyaddr('1.2')
> herror: (11004, 'host not found')   <=== what I want when I catch
> 
> When I run this code:
>         try:
>             hostname, aliases, hostip = socket.gethostbyaddr(ip)
>             return (hostip, hostname)
>         except:
>             print sys.exc_info()
>             print sys.exc_type
>             return

Use the format:

	try:
	    ...
	except ErrorType, e:
	    ... do something with exception object e ...

>>> import socket
>>> socket.error
<class socket.error at 0x8154304>
>>> try:
...  socket.gethostbyaddr('1.2')
... except socket.error, e:
...  print e, dir(e), e.args
... 
(1, 'Unknown host') ['__doc__', '__getitem__', '__init__', '__module__',
'__str__', 'args'] (1, 'Unknown host')

> How do I get the "(11004, 'host not found')" part?
> More importantly, where is the answer documented that I should
> have looked?

Check the part on exception handling.

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ It is human nature to think wisely and act foolishly.
\__/  Anatole France



From achrist at easystreet.com  Thu Jul  3 00:51:27 2003
From: achrist at easystreet.com (achrist at easystreet.com)
Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 21:51:27 -0700
Subject: zip() or what?
References: <3F03AFA8.7030905@ihug.co.nz>
Message-ID: <3F03B64F.4B5A7DA9@easystreet.com>

Ray Tomes wrote:
> 
> Hi all
> 
> 
> This I am trying to flip an array around so that the "subscripts" happen
> in the opposite order 

	[x[-i-1] for i in range(len(x))] 



Al



From intentionally at blank.co.uk  Sun Jul 13 22:41:46 2003
From: intentionally at blank.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 03:41:46 +0100
Subject: anything like C++ references?
References: <13t0hvsb7idh0g6ac3upe5k0qd6flc17ah@4ax.com> <pan.2003.07.13.10.58.11.376531@127.0.0.1> <3F11C42F.5030406@alcyone.com> <usmp9q5s6.fsf@boost-consulting.com> <bet1mg$ht0$1@panix3.panix.com>
Message-ID: <n064hvg0hb263sdaj8mhrhcuf315laiiab@4ax.com>

On 13 Jul 2003 21:40:32 -0400, aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) wrote:

>In article <usmp9q5s6.fsf at boost-consulting.com>,

>>All you guys must be forgetting:
>>
>>   >>> a = [1]
>>   >>> b = a
>>   >>> a += b
>>   >>> assert id(a) == id(b)
>>   >>> a = 1
>>   >>> b = a
>>   >>> a += b
>>   >>> assert id(a) == id(b)
>>   Traceback...
>
>I'm not forgetting that.  It's an unfortunate and tricky part of Python
>semantics in some respects, but it's easily explained and understood if
>you focus on the objects rather than the operation:

I wish I'd thought of it, though - I could have avoided the
'boneheaded' confession a bit longer ;-)




From imbosol at aerojockey.com  Sun Jul 27 22:29:22 2003
From: imbosol at aerojockey.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 02:29:22 GMT
Subject: floating point range generator
References: <Xns93B0F0F1A58A2cpl19ghumspamgourmet@62.153.159.134> <oA2Oa.30893$C83.2655519@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <7xwue3lbzy.fsf_-_@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <7O%Ua.8994$AO6.2045@nwrdny02.gnilink.net>
Message-ID: <6U%Ua.9024$AO6.6681@nwrdny02.gnilink.net>

Carl Banks wrote:
> 3. The last iteration might not happen because of floating point
>   uncertainties, even if rounding errors are minimized

Just to be sure: what I have should have said was there might be more
extra iteration.  The Python convention, of course, it not to include
the final point.  However, with floating point, it could happen to
slightly undershoot the stop value, which would cause an evident extra
iteration.


-- 
CARL BANKS



From missive at frontiernet.net  Sun Jul 13 12:21:20 2003
From: missive at frontiernet.net (Lee Harr)
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 16:21:20 GMT
Subject: installing python library modules (general question)
References: <79ad5955.0307122013.6780fc53@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <slrnbh31qr.k2a.missive@localhost.my.domain>

> ImportError: libmad.so.0: cannot open shared object file: No such file
> or directory
> 
> I know the file /usr/local/lib/libmad.so.0 exists, but python can't
> seem to find it.  I tried adding this path to LD_LIBRARY_PATH, but
> that didn't help.
> 
> I guess that I just really dont' know enought about libraries and
> linux (redhat 9).  I don't really know where they are supposed to go
> after being compiled, and how python "loads" and uses them.
> 


Where are your other python libraries?  On my system, they are in:

/usr/local/lib/python2.2/

and then modules that get added by distutils go in:

/usr/local/lib/python2.2/site-packages/

I have a bunch of libfoo.so and libbaz.so.1 type files in there, so
I think if you have a directory like that you should try dropping
your libmad.so.0 in there.




From skip at pobox.com  Wed Jul 30 16:35:05 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 15:35:05 -0500
Subject: Misuse of <tab>
In-Reply-To: <3f27f0e3$1@news.broadpark.no>
References: <3f27f0e3$1@news.broadpark.no>
Message-ID: <16168.11257.129884.910524@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    Gisle> I'm confused, please enlighten me.

Don't use TABs and break the knuckles of any of your co-workers who do. ;-)

More seriously, I suspect most editors have some sort of setting which
causes it to insert SPACE characters up to the next tab stop.

Skip




From tzot at sil-tec.gr  Fri Jul 18 11:23:06 2003
From: tzot at sil-tec.gr (Christos TZOTZIOY Georgiou)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 18:23:06 +0300
Subject: anything like C++ references?
References: <13t0hvsb7idh0g6ac3upe5k0qd6flc17ah@4ax.com> <pan.2003.07.13.10.58.11.376531@127.0.0.1> <lq-cnWRG9rRuMIyiXTWJjQ@comcast.com> <b8c3hvsesjoumiboobml3nsnajtha99mp1@4ax.com> <mailman.1058126720.6756.python-list@python.org> <dji3hv4uf7fi47l61hhurkf10ot9rjqgen@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <7u1ghvc2pppu75ceesas51ghjp9a2aib45@4ax.com>

On Sun, 13 Jul 2003 22:20:33 +0100, rumours say that Stephen Horne
<intentionally at blank.co.uk> might have written:

>On 13 Jul 2003 15:05:38 -0500, Ian Bicking <ianb at colorstudy.com>
>wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 2003-07-13 at 14:39, Stephen Horne wrote:

>>> The fact is that 'assignment' has a common meaning separate from the
>>> choice of programming language, 

>>This just isn't true.  The C++ assignment operator is not at all like
>>the Python assignment statement.  Python variables are not like C++
>>variables, no surprise assignment is different too.  If you used
>>languages outside of C++ and its like (e.g., Pascal), you would find
>>Python's behavior common.
>
>Think again.
>
>When I say "'assignment' has a common meaning separate from the choice
>of programming language" I assumed you would get the hint. I'm not
>referring to some specific other programming language, of which I have
>used many - and not all of them imperative. I am referring to the
>definitions in computer theory, which do not relate to any specific
>programming language but actually apply to all of them, irrespective
>of paradigm and everything else.

[and snip of various other stuff]

perhaps I am too late, and off subject at this point in time, but I
believe I can offer something to the discussion; I just picked to follow
up a post that looked appropriate for my digression below.



The way I see it, practically, there are two ways to describe the python
variables/names, and it comes down to choosing labels (nb. the following
paragraphs are valid for CPython, and do not take account of other
computer languages or computer science in general):

- if you choose the labels 'name', 'object', 'binding' as most
pythonistas do, then the python assignment operator 'binds' 'names' to
'objects'.  You can't 'bind' 'names' to 'names', since they are not
'objects'.
The function id() returns the identity of the 'object' 'bound' to
'name'.
Argument passing is neither 'call by reference' or 'call by value'; it's
something one can name 'call by object'.

- if you choose the labels 'variable', 'value', 'reference', 'object',
then *all* 'variables' are of the same type: 'reference' to 'object'.  A
'variable' is not a python 'object', so you can't have one 'variable'
'referencing' another 'variable'.  You can't store an 'object' to a
'variable', just a 'reference' to the 'object'.
The function id() returns the 'value' of the 'variable'.
In this case, all argument passing is "call by value"; all 'values' are
'references' to 'objects'.



Please note that a python 'name' (or a python 'variable') is completely
described by the following regular expression:

^[_A-Za-z][_A-Za-z0-9]*$

So you are certain that you are 'binding' a 'name' to an 'object' (or
storing the 'reference' to an 'object' in a 'variable') only when you
have something like the following:

name = <any valid python expression>

This is *always* an assignment operation.  You can't control it with
specially-named functions (something like __assign__, say).  If you are
of the 'variable', 'value' persuasion, then most of the time the 'value'
of "name" changes by the assignment operation, even if the new 'object'
is equal to the old 'one'.

OTOH, if you have something like:

another_name.name = <any valid python expression>

then the LHS is not a 'name' (or a 'variable').  It's the "name"
attribute (or property) of the "another_name" object.  This code can
call several python functions, depending on the type/class of
"another_name".  The execution of the above statement might invoke some
methods of the 'object' presently known as "another_name" (eg
__setattr__ or a special property put method).
The "name" attribute can be a 'name' (or a 'variable'), but it's not
necessarily so.



This post is a good example of bad writing, but the ways of
enlightenment are obscure... ;-)
-- 
TZOTZIOY, I speak England very best,
Microsoft Security Alert: the Matrix began as open source.



From alanmk at hotmail.com  Tue Jul 15 06:05:02 2003
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 10:05:02 +0000
Subject: Confusing automated translators.
Message-ID: <Law9-F396gswNdZynfL0001176f@hotmail.com>

[Francois]

>Just to repeat publicly the content of a private reply, the two meanings 
>could be:
>
>    "The driver closes the door."
>    "The firm driver is carrying her."

Aha!

That's very clever. I like the dual use of "la porte" (the door) as a noun 
and "la porte" (carries her) as a verb. That makes it similar to the "time 
flies" one, where "like" is used as a comparative (french "comme") and as a 
verb (french "aime").

I was obviously completely off base with my interpretation of "pilote 
ferme"/"experimental farm". :#)

Thanks Francois.

Regards,

Al.

_________________________________________________________________
Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online 
http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963





From alanmk at hotmail.com  Sun Jul 20 10:49:46 2003
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 15:49:46 +0100
Subject: A challenge to the ASCII proponents.
References: <mailman.1058665173.19987.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3F1AAC0A.7A6326B@hotmail.com>

Martin v. Loewis:
>>>> So what do you think about this message?:
>>>>
>>>> ????????????????
>>>>
>>>> Look Ma, no markup. And not every character uses two bytes,
>>>> either.
>>>> And I can use Umlauts (??????) and Arabic (????????.????????????)
>>>> if I want to.

Alan Kennedy:

> The final point I'd like to make [explicit] is: nobody had to ask
> me how or why my xml snippet worked: there were no tricks. Nobody
> asked for debugging information, or for reasons why they couldn't
> see it:


eltronic at juno.com wrote:

> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
> 
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
> 
> is how my email picked it up.
> 
> other messages and replys were inconsistently rendered.
> 
> isn't this the kind of thing the test groups were designed for?
> 
> IIR, 7 bits is the standard in email & usenet.
> 
>  no one should expect more than 7
> 
> from any program or relay. the proper way
> 
> would seem to be html using char entity's
> 
> html appears to be no ones favorite format in email or usenet,
> 
> so let the flames begin.
> 
> I hope I haven't been hoodwinked into replying in 8bit as well.

Hmm, on reading and re-reading your points, the only way I can make
sense of them is if I assume that you didn't read the thread from the
start, which is highly recommended

http://tinyurl.com/hhhs

In summary:

1. I managed to make a greek word, using the original greek glyphs,
appear on everyone's "rendering surface", by posting a 7-bit clean XML
snippet. Another poster widened the software coverage even further by
posting a 7-bit clean HTML snippet. Both of our 7-bit markup snippets
travelled safely throughout the entirety of UseNet, including all the
7-bit relays and gateways.

2. The only other person who managed it, without using markup, was
Martin von Loewis, who is so good at this stuff that he confidently
makes statements like "what I did was right: it was Google that got it
wrong". Martin used the UTF-8 character set, i.e. a non-ASCII,
non-7-bit-clean character set, to achieve this. Although I'm sure
Martin could have managed it with UTF-7 as well.

3. If anybody else was willing to give it a try, they don't seem to
have had enough confidence in their knowledge of encodings, MIME,
transports, NNTP, etc, etc, to have actually hit the "send" button, in
case it didn't work. Which doesn't bode well for the average person in
the street: if the technology specialists in this newsgroup don't feel
in command of the issue, what hope for everyone else?

Maybe I should have a poke around the UseNet test groups to see how
many people tried and failed ;-)

-- 
alan kennedy
-----------------------------------------------------
check http headers here: http://xhaus.com/headers
email alan:              http://xhaus.com/mailto/alan



From mwh at python.net  Fri Jul 18 13:03:34 2003
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 17:03:34 GMT
Subject: properties + types, implementing meta-class desciptors elegantly?
References: <mailman.1058532630.7342.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7h3znjbzscu.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

"Mike C. Fletcher" <mcfletch at rogers.com> writes:

> So, does anyone have a pattern which allows setting an attribute on
> a class which doesn't go through the setattr machinery (i.e. can be
> used within a descriptor)?

No.  Fun problem to think about, though :-)

Cheers,
M.

-- 
  Beer doesn't really work over the internet, unless IPv6 improves
  things in ways I don't understand.
                                  -- Steven M. Haflich, comp.lang.lisp



From harry.g.george at boeing.com  Mon Jul 21 12:42:29 2003
From: harry.g.george at boeing.com (Harry George)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 16:42:29 GMT
Subject: global variable
References: <bfgvmo$jo7$1@news.uni-kl.de>
Message-ID: <xqxznj77rwq.fsf@cola2.ca.boeing.com>

Tom <llafba at gmx.net> writes:

> Hi,
> 
> I have one "master" program which calls a small program. In this small
> program I want to work with a value from the "master" program. But I
> always get this error: NameError: global name 'T' is not defined
> 
> How can I define a global variable?
> 
> Thanks for your help.
> Regards, Tom
> 


master.py:
my_global_var=1234

small.py:
import master
...
my_local_var=master.my_global_var * 3.14

-- 
harry.g.george at boeing.com
6-6M31 Knowledge Management
Phone: (425) 294-8757



From mwh at python.net  Wed Jul 23 04:43:06 2003
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 08:43:06 GMT
Subject: Python 2.3c1: Raising a string doesn't trigger PendingDeprecationWarning.
References: <7c58a0f1.0307230020.1336f4ea@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <7h3llupy71t.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

warkid at hotbox.ru (Kerim) writes:

> "What's New in Python 2.3"
> (http://www.python.org/doc/2.3c1/whatsnew/node17.html) says that
> "Raising a string will now trigger PendingDeprecationWarning.". But
> with Python 2.3c1 it seems that it isn't the case:
> 
> Python 2.3c1 (#44, Jul 18 2003, 14:32:36) [MSC v.1200 32 bit (Intel)]
> on win32
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> >>> raise 'error'
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
> error
> >>>

Try running 'python -Wall'.

Cheers,
M.

-- 
  Well, you pretty much need Microsoft stuff to get misbehaviours
  bad enough to actually tear the time-space continuum.  Luckily 
  for you, MS Internet Explorer is available for Solaris.
                              -- Calle Dybedahl, alt.sysadmin.recovery



From skip at pobox.com  Sun Jul 27 11:54:23 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 10:54:23 -0500
Subject: emacs python-mode questions: C-c C-c and broken docstring fill
In-Reply-To: <87ptjwre0x.fsf@pobox.com>
References: <87ptjwre0x.fsf@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <16163.62895.594090.125698@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    John> Wrong type argument: sequencep, cpython

Where the comment says "TBD: a horrible hack...": try replacing the
beginning of the let with

      (let ((cmd (concat (if (eq shell (quote cpython))
                             "python"
                           "jython")
                         (if (string-equal py-which-bufname "JPython")
                             " -" ""))))

I have no idea what the "jython" string really should be.  That was just a
guess.

Skip




From steve at ferg.org  Thu Jul 10 15:34:35 2003
From: steve at ferg.org (Stephen Ferg)
Date: 10 Jul 2003 12:34:35 -0700
Subject: Newbie - No module named stdwin
References: <beh8d4$gnu$1@topaz.icpnet.pl>
Message-ID: <b16e4ef7.0307101134.135e2ee4@posting.google.com>

You might want to take a look at EasyGui.
http://www.ferg.org/easygui/

That will allow you to do simple things quickly.

After that, you might want to look at 
http://www.ferg.org/thinking_in_tkinter/index.html



From lol at lolmcNOSPAM.com  Fri Jul  4 17:00:55 2003
From: lol at lolmcNOSPAM.com (Rogue 9)
Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 22:00:55 +0100
Subject: Importing packages and classes help required by newbie
Message-ID: <3f05eaf3@shknews01>

Hi All,
I have a small problem in a program I'm developing and could do with some
guidance as to how I resolve it.
The hierachy of my program is as follows:

1)The toplevel package is called oop_lb 2)Beneath oop_lb are 3 packages -
analysis,process and tests

				oop_lb
				   |
				   |
	-------------------------------------------------------
	|			   |			      |
    analysis                    process                     tests


I am using the very excellent unittest module to help me to create a
program that is as bug free as I can make it and the tests are as you cn
guess in the tests package mentioned above. I have developed several
modules which reside in the process package and succesfully created tests
in the tests package which ensure the code does what I intended.When I
moved on to the analysis package however,things went a bit wonky as the
modules in this package called classes which resided in the process
package and when using the import statements to make them available I
found that either I could get the oop_lb module to run with one set of
import statements but the tests I wrote would not recognise the modules
from process in the import statements and produced the following type of
error:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "CalculateMedianTest.py", line 14, in ?
    import oop_lb.analysis.CalculateMedian
  File "/home/lol/disk/python/lotto/oop_lb/analysis/CalculateMedian.py",
  line 14, in ?
    from process import GetDraw
ImportError: No module named process

This occurs with the following import statement in the CalculateMedian.py
module

from process import GetDraw

If I change this to
import oop_lb.process.GetDraw

then the test program will work but the oop_lb.py file fails with the
following error

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "oop_lb.py", line 21, in ?
    from analysis import CalculateMedian # import class definition from
    file
  File "/home/lol/disk/python/lotto/oop_lb/analysis/CalculateMedian.py",
  line 13, in ?
    import oop_lb.process.GetDraw
  File "/home/lol/disk/python/lotto/oop_lb/oop_lb.py", line 21, in ?
    from analysis import CalculateMedian # import class definition from
    file
ImportError: cannot import name CalculateMedian

So.....my problem is that I can't seem to find the proper way to import
the modules to satisfy both the testing modules in the oop_lb.tests
package and also allow oop_lb.py to run without import errors. I apologise
for the length of the post and any ambiguities I may not have managed to
clear up whilst proff reading this before posting.

Thanks,Lol
-- 
Remove NOSPAM from my email address to use it,please.




From tchur at optushome.com.au  Wed Jul 30 07:44:29 2003
From: tchur at optushome.com.au (Tim Churches)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 21:44:29 +1000
Subject: python in parallel for pattern discovery in genome data
In-Reply-To: <1059563927.5183.5.camel@E503BMatrixReloaded>
Message-ID: <003a01c3568f$f284fe20$a300a8c0@emilio>

BalyanM wrote:
> Sent: Wednesday, 30 July 2003 9:19 PM
> To: python-list at python.org
> Subject: python in parallel for pattern discovery in genome data
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I am new to python.I am using it on redhat linux 9.
> I am interested to run python on a sun 
> machine(SunE420R,os=solaris) with 4 cpu's for a pattern 
> discovery/search program on biological sequence(genomic 
> sequence).I want to write the python code so that it utilizes 
> all the 4 cpu's.Moreover do i need some other libraries. 
> Kindly advice.

Manoj,

Have a look at PyPar, which is Ole Neilsen's excellent Python wrapper
for the MPI parallel library. It is very easy to use, and Ole gives some
nice examples. See http://datamining.anu.edu.au/~ole/pypar/ That page
also lists some other Python wrappers for MPI. We have been using PyPar
with excellent results to parallelise probabilistic record linkage
problems, running on a 4 CPU SMP Sun server under Solaris, just like
yours. Some example code for doing this can be found in the lastest
Febrl release at http://datamining.anu.edu.au/projects/linkage.html
However, PyPAr and MPI (in particular the LAM/MPI distribution) also
work well on clusters of Linux machines. I think that LAM/MPI is
available as a pre-packages RPM for RedHat Linux, which makes
installation even easier.

Just out of interest, what types of pattern matching algorithms are you
using?

Hope this helps,

Tim C






From fredrik at pythonware.com  Mon Jul 14 17:19:34 2003
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 23:19:34 +0200
Subject: Python Mystery Theatre -- Episode 2:  Así Fue
References: <VorQa.15236$Kw1.587@nwrdny02.gnilink.net> <3F130ED4.2030804@skynet.be>
Message-ID: <bev6nj$jpb$1@main.gmane.org>

Helmut Jarausch wrote:

> OK, I believe to know why the last line
> print '3' three times, since only a reference
> to 'f' is stored within the lambda expression
> and this has the value 'thrice' when 'print'
> is executed.
>
> But how can I achieve something like an
> evaluation of one indirection so that
> a reference to the function referenced by 'f'
> is stored instead.

assuming you meant "the function reference by 'f' when the lambda
is created", the easiest solution is to use default argument binding:

    flam = [lambda x,f=f: f(x) for f in funcs]

the "f=f" construct will bind the inner name "f" to the current value of
the outer "f" for each lambda.

the nested scopes mechanism is often introduced as the "right way" to
do what was done with argument binding in earlier versions of Python.
however, nested scopes bind *names*, while argument binding binds
*values*.

</F>







From furliz at libero.it  Wed Jul 23 04:14:22 2003
From: furliz at libero.it (furliz)
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 10:14:22 +0200
Subject: newbies and win32 ...
Message-ID: <bflg7c$rcm$1@stargate1.inet.it>

Hi all,
I'm trying to understand how to use COM objects with python. The big 
problem is that in many tutorials there is ever the same example 
creating an instance of Microsoft Excel: well, I haven't Office 
installed, and when I try to instance another type of library... I get 
only errors... :(((
This is what I'd like to obtain: embedding a Flash movie in a 
Tkinter-based program.
Can someone help me? any example, link, suggestion is wellcome.

Bye.




From jjl at pobox.com  Tue Jul  8 09:32:48 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 08 Jul 2003 14:32:48 +0100
Subject: A story about Python... sort of
References: <mailman.1057616412.8695.python-list@python.org> <3F0A0655.99823E25@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <87smphp2in.fsf@pobox.com>

[utterly OT, but couldn't resist replying again]

Erik Max Francis <max at alcyone.com> writes:

> John J Lee wrote:
> 
> > A Google result (appropriately enough, given the origin of
> > the name Google) ...
> 
> But the origin of the name was generated from a misspelling of _googol_
> (the name for 10^100), which evidently was found via Web searches.  So
> the origin of the name of the search engine

Yeah -- I just meant they're both pretty large numbers.


[...]
> infinite spatial extent.  So, presuming we live in a universe that
> follows this models, the true Universe is infinitely large, even though
> we can only see a finite, small part of it.

True, though infinite spatial extent doesn't necessarily mean infinite
computation, of course (though it's true people have claimed both open
and closed universes allow, or require, infinite computation).  I
suppose a lot of this is up for grabs ATM, with the recent discoveries
about the cosmological constant &c.  Still, questions like 'is chess
physically solveable' (in a sense I hope we all grok by this point in
the thread) are questions about physics, which I guess is the real
point I was making to the guy I was replying to.  <irony>Doubtless
he'll put that insight to use in his next Python script.</irony>


[...]
> Since it's an interpretation, though, it's just an intuitive way of
> looking at the situation.  Quantum mechanical interpretations do not
> modify the theory itself; that is, they neither add nor subtract
> anything from the theory which is testable in any way.

I disagree with all of that.  Further discussion taken off-list!


John



From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sun Jul 20 09:41:55 2003
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 20 Jul 2003 09:41:55 -0400
Subject: object as a reserved keyword
References: <vtnkhvoqcet2bgmeidae1st46m7q9sr1p3@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <bfe673$9mq$1@panix2.panix.com>

In article <vtnkhvoqcet2bgmeidae1st46m7q9sr1p3 at 4ax.com>,
Lawrence Oluyede  <raims at dot.com> wrote:
>
>Does it worth to make "object" keyword a reserved one?

Maybe.  Python strives for a minimal syntax.  Many identifiers that
would be keywords in other languages are simply names in the builtin
namespace.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

This is Python.  We don't care much about theory, except where it intersects 
with useful practice.  --Aahz



From wayne at mishre.com  Sat Jul 12 15:39:33 2003
From: wayne at mishre.com (Wayne Pierce)
Date: 12 Jul 2003 12:39:33 -0700
Subject: new in town
References: <AeVPa.445271$Vi5.11496890@news1.calgary.shaw.ca>
Message-ID: <2a897f11.0307121139.21470fbb@posting.google.com>

"Elaine Jackson" <elainejackson7355 at home.com> wrote in message news:<AeVPa.445271$Vi5.11496890 at news1.calgary.shaw.ca>...
> Can Python be compiled? If so, how? (I have the 2.2 version of the interpreter.)
> TIA for any and all helps

If you want to be able to distribute your Python apps without the end
user needing a Python interpreter take a look at the following:

http://www.mcmillan-inc.com/install1.html

Wayne



From intentionally at blank.co.uk  Sun Jul 13 19:37:15 2003
From: intentionally at blank.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 00:37:15 +0100
Subject: anything like C++ references?
References: <13t0hvsb7idh0g6ac3upe5k0qd6flc17ah@4ax.com> <pan.2003.07.13.10.58.11.376531@127.0.0.1> <lq-cnWRG9rRuMIyiXTWJjQ@comcast.com> <b8c3hvsesjoumiboobml3nsnajtha99mp1@4ax.com> <1058126738.28456.424.camel@lothlorien> <mailman.1058131341.21911.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <mpn3hvkbd9sesm30devamii1vmdnq90lg8@4ax.com>

On Sun, 13 Jul 2003 17:16:55 -0400, Jack Diederich
<jack at performancedrivers.com> wrote:

>On Sun, Jul 13, 2003 at 03:05:38PM -0500, Ian Bicking wrote:
>> On Sun, 2003-07-13 at 14:39, Stephen Horne wrote:
>> > The fact is that 'assignment' has a common meaning separate from the
>> > choice of programming language, 
>> 
>> This just isn't true.  The C++ assignment operator is not at all like
>> the Python assignment statement.  Python variables are not like C++
>> variables, no surprise assignment is different too.  If you used
>> languages outside of C++ and its like (e.g., Pascal), you would find
>> Python's behavior common.
>> 
>
>C++ is the only language that has the same semantics as C++.
>
>I was a long time C++ guy and my a-ha moment was when I realized that the
>GoF's "Design Patterns" were not all universal -- some are C++ specific.
>Trying to force Python semantics into a C++ world view will leave you feeling
>empty every time.  Drink the koolaid, python has a short learning curve.  
>If this is a problem - whatever you do - DONT TRY TO LEARN LISP.
>
>If you want a more polished C++, use Java.  Python is in a different class
>of languages.

Java has the same problem as Python in this respect. You can either
state that it implements a different assignment semantic for some data
types than it does for other data types, or you can claim that some
data types have implicit built in references while others don't.

The Java rationale is essentially that 'pointer' is considered a dirty
word, so it was considered necessary to disguise them in Java. End
result - you have to use things which are not pointers as if they
were. You have to abuse data types in an arbitrary, confusing and
error-prone way in order to create the effect of pointers/references.

In Python, Guido describes his rationale for the existence of both
mutable lists and immutable tuples here...

http://www.python.org/search/hypermail/python-1992/0292.html

According to this, the benefit from an immutable tuple is that there
is no immediate copy, yet the tuples stored in the object are
protected from accidental 'mutation'. It allows a lazy copy-on-write
optimisation combined with preventing unwanted mutation of those
tuples. ie Guido justifies the need for an immutable tuple in terms of
copying - the rationale is about assignment, even though the effect is
the same as in Java in which the rationale is about disguising
pointers.

Note that Guidos rationale assumes a tie between the concepts of
'reference to value' and 'in place modifiability of part or all of
value'. This is bogus - these are two different concepts. There is no
reason why mutable objects shouldn't be assigned using copy-on-write
semantics, and there is no reason why there shouldn't be a simple
reference or pointer data type which has the explicit purpose of
providing indirect reference to single values of any type whether
mutable or immutable.

The only 'trouble' is that it suggests a need to distinguish
assignment to a variable (replacing the previous value even if it was
a pointer) from assignment to a pointed-to location. In fact you
already do this if you fake pointer functionality using mutable
objects, the only difference is that a pointer dereference is specific
to the real purpose and does not require abuse of data types that are
designed for other jobs.

People may say that pointers are bad news, but that impression
resulted from languages like C and Pascal and it should be qualified
in two ways. Pointers in C and C++ are dangerous in a very important
way. Pointers don't always point to a valid object - they may point to
something that was deleted, for instance. This is worse in the C
family as pointers and arrays are almost treated as the same thing,
and array subscripting has no bounds checking. Furthermore, there is
the risk of memory leaks.

If pointers always point to a valid object (except, perhaps, a special
pointer-to-none value which throws an exception on dereferencing), if
pointers are kept distinct from other abstractions such as arrays, and
there is no possibility of accessing whatever memory happens to be
beyond the bounds of some particular type, and if garbage collection
is used then the only reliability objections that can be levelled at
pointers would relate to code complexity - and that complexity can
only be increased by faking pointers using mutable types designed for
other tasks. All of these are perfectly plausible for a scripting
language.




From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Wed Jul 23 00:01:50 2003
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 23 Jul 2003 00:01:50 -0400
Subject: sys.setcheckinterval query
References: <84fc4588.0307201255.254582df@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bfl1be$bqp$1@panix3.panix.com>

In article <84fc4588.0307201255.254582df at posting.google.com>,
Anand Pillai <pythonguy at Hotpop.com> wrote:
>
>"""
>setcheckinterval(interval)
> Set the interpreter's ``check interval''. This integer value
>determines how often the interpreter checks for periodic things such
>as thread switches and signal handlers. The default is 10, meaning the
>check is performed every 10 Python virtual instructions. Setting it to
>a larger value may increase performance for programs using threads.
>Setting it to a value <= 0 checks every virtual instruction,
>maximizing responsiveness as well as overhead.
>"""

Note that Python 2.3 changes the default to 100, so be careful about
hard-coding anything.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

This is Python.  We don't care much about theory, except where it intersects 
with useful practice.  --Aahz



From frobozz_electric at hotmail.com  Thu Jul 17 10:20:29 2003
From: frobozz_electric at hotmail.com (Sean Ross)
Date: 17 Jul 2003 14:20:29 GMT
Subject: Co-routines
References: <g7xRa.305$fF.9914@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au> <3F16A34A.5742F54F@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <bf6bbd$ho3$1@driftwood.ccs.carleton.ca>

"Peter Hansen" <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message
> I think the problem is underspecified.  What do you mean by the quoted
> phrase "lock-step"?

He wants to have f1 and f2 alternate executing instructions:

# pseudo code
def f1():
    instruction1-1
    instruction1-2

def f2():
    instruction2-1
    instruction2-2

So, for the code above, he would like to see something like the following
execution routine:

start execution of f1
execute instruction1-1
pause execution of f1
start execution of f2
execute instruction2-1
pause execution of f2
resume execution of f1
execute instruction1-2
pause execution of f1
resume execution of f2
execute instruction2-2
pause execution of f2

Do a piece of one, then do a piece of the other, then do another piece of
the former, and so on...

While the following code does not provide a solution to the OP's request, it
does show something very much like the behaviour that's being asked for.

class LockStepper:
    def __init__(self, id):
        self.id = id
        self.i = 1
        self.partner = None

    def next(self):
        if self.i > 10:
            return
        print "instruction %s-%s"%(self.id, self.i)
        self.i += 1
        self.partner.next()

f1 = LockStepper(1)
f2 = LockStepper(2)
f1.partner = f2
f2.partner = f1

# begin lock-step execution
f1.next()

The idea here is to think of each LockStepper as though it were a function,
and to think of the print statement in each of their next() methods as a
line of instruction inside the body of that function. The LockStepper
executes the first line of it's "function body", then pauses. It's partner
executes the first line of it's function body, then pauses. The partner's
partner was the original LockStepper, so it "resumes execution"
(self.partner.next()) and executes it's second line of instructions. And so
on...

If someone better at generators than I could put together a version of this
where the LockStepper's have a __call__() method that yields execution back
and forth between a partner LockStepper, then we'd be closer to simulating
the behaviour, but not to solving the problem, which asks for this behaviour
using arbitrary functions (not necessarily LockSteppers). And, I've know
idea how to do that :)

Hope that clears things up a little,
Sean





From wilkSPAM at OUTflibuste.net  Thu Jul 31 03:38:17 2003
From: wilkSPAM at OUTflibuste.net (Wilk)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 09:38:17 +0200
Subject: Python vs. Perl vs. PHP?
References: <7b454334.0307281002.41dae81b@posting.google.com> <bg3qkk$lmr$05$1@news.t-online.com>
 <FzRVa.11353$R14.4280@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk>
 <7b454334.0307301611.1b40ff11@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <87d6fri1sm.fsf@flibuste.net>

faizan at jaredweb.com (Fazer) writes:

> Graham Breed <usenet at microtonal.co.uk> wrote in message news:<FzRVa.11353$R14.4280 at news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk>...
>> Diez B. Roggisch wrote:
>> 
>> > http://www.bagley.org/~doug/shootout/craps.shtml
>> > 
>> > Python is place 13, with a speed index of 578. PHP is second last (before
>> > bash) and has a speed index of 197.
>> 
>> Those benchmarks are doubly useless for the question at hand.  Firstly, 
>> they only test command line applications.  Secondly, PHP is compiled 
>> without optimizations because the rules state that only the default 
>> configuration can be used.  See question 8 of the FAQ:
>> 
>> http://www.bagley.org/~doug/shootout/faq.shtml
>> 
>> 
>>                       Graham
>
> Yeah, I read the FAQ as well.  I am basically looking for a FAST
> alternative to PHP meaning the responce time is fast.  Do you think
> that Python with using the CGI module is a good solution?

It depends what you mean by fast, and which kind of task you'll to
do...
If you really need fast answer, you'll need to use a webserver or
mod-python to keep the data in memory.
If you need fast execution, you can code a part in C.

bye

-- 
William Dode - http://flibuste.net



From jocsch at phreaker.net  Mon Jul  7 13:24:18 2003
From: jocsch at phreaker.net (Markus Joschko)
Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 19:24:18 +0200
Subject: Search for mapping solution
References: <be9t66$2otne$1@ID-47851.news.dfncis.de> <be9tnh$59n$03$1@news.t-online.com> <bea0fe$2otcq$1@ID-47851.news.dfncis.de> <bea4c3$c68$03$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <becava$357mc$1@ID-47851.news.dfncis.de>

Thanks for all the answers. Nice to have such a community.

For me it's really interesting to see all the possible solutions. I  learned
some new things in this discussion 

Greetings,
 Markus



From erwin at andreasen.com  Wed Jul  2 11:47:48 2003
From: erwin at andreasen.com (Erwin S. Andreasen)
Date: 02 Jul 2003 17:47:48 +0200
Subject: os.fork() different in cgi-script?
References: <bdudn2$11c3gt$1@fu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <87vfulrkuz.fsf@andreasen.org>

"Andreas Kuntzagk" <andreas.kuntzagk at mdc-berlin.de> writes:

> following code:

>     print "Content-Type: text/plain\n\n"
>     print os.getpid()
> 
>     childPID = os.fork()
>     if childPID == 0:
>         sys.exit()
>     else:
>         os.wait()

[...]

> So it looks the main() is run 2 times. 
> Is it so? And if yes, why?

The problem is buffering. When you run your script from the command
line, the standard output is a terminal and becomes line-buffered.
Thus at the time you fork, the stdout buffer has been flushed.

When you run it as a CGI script, stdout is a socket and thus not a
terminal -- so it becomes block buffered. At the time you fork, each
copy of stdout holds all of our unflushed output. When the two
processes exit they will both flush the output, resulting in it being
printed twice.

You can use sys.stdout.flush() to flush the pending output before
forking.

-- 
===============================================================
<erwin at andreasen.org>                           Herlev, Denmark     
<URL:http://www.andreasen.org/>                             <*>   
===============================================================




From mcfletch at rogers.com  Sun Jul 20 06:47:52 2003
From: mcfletch at rogers.com (Mike C. Fletcher)
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 06:47:52 -0400
Subject: properties + types, implementing meta-class desciptors elegantly?
In-Reply-To: <bfcptk$1dl$1@panix1.panix.com>
References: <mailman.1058532630.7342.python-list@python.org> <mailman.1058654317.6488.python-list@python.org> <bfcl87$6jb$1@panix1.panix.com> <mailman.1058660069.1164.python-list@python.org> <bfcptk$1dl$1@panix1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <3F1A7358.2080401@rogers.com>

Aahz wrote:

>In article <mailman.1058660069.1164.python-list at python.org>,
>Mike C. Fletcher <mcfletch at rogers.com> wrote:
>  
>
>>Aahz wrote:
>>    
>>
>>>In article <mailman.1058654317.6488.python-list at python.org>,
>>>Mike C. Fletcher <mcfletch at rogers.com> wrote:
>>>      
>>>
>>>>Nope, I'm trying to make meta-classes which have rich properties.  The 
>>>>particular project is a plug-in system, where the classes (the 
>>>>metaclass-instances) want to have all sorts of rich metadata associated 
>>>>with them in a way which meshes with the rest of the system (i.e. using 
>>>>a descriptor-based introspection mechanism).
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>Keeping in mind that I'm really not following this discussion all that
>>>closely (because metaclasses give me headaches), are you trying to make
>>>a *metaclass* that has properties or a *metaclass instance* (i.e. a
>>>class) that has properties?
>>>      
>>>
>>Just the meta-class instances (classes).  Wasn't sufficiently precise in 
>>my description, the properties are normally declared in the meta-class, 
>>but they are actually properties of the meta-class instances.
>>    
>>
>
>Next question: are you also trying to access the properties on class
>instances?
>
Not really, I want them to be properties of the class, and would prefer 
that they *not* show up in the instances.  That said, I can deal with it 
if they do show up in the instances.

Enjoy,
Mike

_______________________________________
  Mike C. Fletcher
  Designer, VR Plumber, Coder
  http://members.rogers.com/mcfletch/







From vivek at cs.unipune.ernet.in  Wed Jul 30 04:10:02 2003
From: vivek at cs.unipune.ernet.in (vivek at cs.unipune.ernet.in)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 13:40:02 +0530
Subject: How to get success/failure in case of thread
In-Reply-To: <84fc4588.0307290442.7c203e35@posting.google.com>; from pythonguy@Hotpop.com on Tue, Jul 29, 2003 at 05:42:26AM -0700
References: <20030728175542.A23857@cs.unipune.ernet.in> <16165.10847.483917.787182@montanaro.dyndns.org> <mailman.1059467622.12587.python-list@python.org> <84fc4588.0307290442.7c203e35@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20030730134002.A4660@cs.unipune.ernet.in>

I think I have asked the wrong question :-( . I think the question should be :

  How can I use multiple threads in SimpleXMLRPCServer ???

I tried the following things:
  
1.  added a queue object in the handler class
2.  called the _dispatch mathod on a separate thread
3.  in the _dispatch method after getting the reqult put it in queue
4.  called another function that will send the response that was previously
send by the dispatch method.

But when I tried this it failed miserably :-(

I even don't know whether I tried in the right direction or not ??

Any help/pointers. ???

TIA and Kind Regards
Vivek Kumar




From trentm at ActiveState.com  Tue Jul 15 13:49:22 2003
From: trentm at ActiveState.com (Trent Mick)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 10:49:22 -0700
Subject: creating sparse files on win32
In-Reply-To: <b3d0189f.0307150920.238e072b@posting.google.com>; from erick_bodine@attbi.com on Tue, Jul 15, 2003 at 10:20:35AM -0700
References: <b3d0189f.0307150920.238e072b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20030715104922.C12369@ActiveState.com>

[erick_bodine at attbi.com wrote]
> I need to create some sparse files on a win32 system (2000 & 2003
> Server) in order to do some testing of another application (not
> python).  I have been poking around the win32all extensions (win32file
> specifically) that come w/ ActivePython but can't find anything that
> allows me to create a file with the 'sparse file attribute' set.
> 
> Has anyone done this in python?

I haven't done this but MSDN teels me here:
    http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/fileio/base/sparse_file_operations.asp
that one needs to use the FSCTL_SET_SPARSE control:
    http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/fileio/base/fsctl_set_sparse.asp

The code sample on the latter link uses the DeviceIoControl() Win32 API
method:
    >>> import win32file
    >>> win32file.DeviceIoControl
    <built-in function DeviceIoControl>
Also use this to determine if the file system supports sparse files:
    >>> win32api.GetVolumeInformation
    <built-in function GetVolumeInformation>

Hopefully that can give you a start.

Cheers,
Trent

-- 
Trent Mick
TrentM at ActiveState.com




From lol at lolmc.com  Thu Jul 17 11:05:15 2003
From: lol at lolmc.com (Rogue9)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 16:05:15 +0100
Subject: Problems retrieving items from a list using a reference rather than an integer - can you help?
References: <3f15ca92@shknews01>
Message-ID: <3f16bb84@shknews01>

After reviewing my question I realised that I should have posted the short
piece of real code I'm working on and not tried to write some pseudo-code
to illustrate the problem I'm having.Therefore I have printed the listing
below which is quite short and hopefully won't annoy too many peopleabout
the length of my post.

To reiterate:
The masterList holds the results for the UK lottery in the form
[[1,'1994-10-19',3,14,16,23,34,43,2,3,'ARTHUR',234]...] and there are 792
results in the list. The skipFreqList holds the count of skipped draws
between when a certain ball was drawn i.e if ball one was drawn in draw
one and then not again till draw 10 the list would look like this
[['Ball1',0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,0......],['Ball2,1,2,0,1,2,3,4,5,0,0]....['Ball49',1,0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8]].Each
item in the skipFreqList will be 1 item longer than the masterList length
as each one starts with a string descriptor.

So,what this code is supposed to do is to retrieve each draw from the
masterList and pick the ball data from the result then for each ball index
through to that balls skip frequency list e.g.r1 = skipFreqList[b1-1](the
one is taken away from the ball value as the list starts at position 0 for
indexing as I'm sure you know).Now we use the draw number to find the
specific skip frequency value for that ball in that draw e.g.skip1 =
r1[draw] and this is where it all goes wrong in that a value of zero is
always returned rather than the value at the index position equal to the
value of the draw variable. However,if I substitute an integer for draw in
the same line e.g.skip1 = r1[10]then I always get the correct returned
value! Can anyone please help with this please - it's driving menuts
trying to figure out where I'm going wrong?

Thanks for your time and effort,
Lol McBride

import cPickle
import unittest
import oop_lb.reports.AllDrawsReport
import oop_lb.process.DrawLoop

class AllDrawsReportTest(unittest.TestCase):

    def test1(self):
# Initialise variables
        f=open('/home/lol/disk/python/lotto/dat/masterList.lb','r')
        masterList = cPickle.load(f)
        f.close()
        f=open('/home/lol/disk/python/lotto/dat/skipFreqList.lb','r')
        skipFreqList = cPickle.load(f)
        f.close()
        print skipFreqList
        draw = 1
        while 1:
            if draw == 300:# limited to 300 whilst debugging
                break
            x = masterList[draw-1]
            print draw,x
# Now we must write the skip frequency data into the table
            b1 = x[2]
            b2 = x[3]
            b3 = x[4]
            b4 = x[5]
            b5 = x[6]
            b6 = x[7]
            print b1,b2,b3,b4,b5,b6
            r1 = skipFreqList[b1-1]
            r2 = skipFreqList[b2-1]
            r3 = skipFreqList[b3-1]
            r4 = skipFreqList[b4-1]
            r5 = skipFreqList[b5-1]
            r6 = skipFreqList[b6-1]
            print r1,r2,r3,r4,r5,r6
	    skip1 = r1[draw]
            print skip1
            draw = draw+1
        return


if __name__ == '__main__':
    unittest.main()



From CousinStanley at hotmail.com  Sun Jul  6 16:43:28 2003
From: CousinStanley at hotmail.com (Cousin Stanley)
Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2003 13:43:28 -0700
Subject: absolute beginners question about API documentation
References: <be9nn3$2k0j3$1@ID-47851.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <bea1ht$2t24v$1@ID-130333.news.dfncis.de>

| Hi all,
| I' new to python programming but a longtime java programmer.
| Is there an API documentation like the javadoc API from java?
| ...

Markus ...

    I find the pydoc module handy for helping
    to find Python information ...

    The following command line starts pydoc
    with a small GUI as a Python documentation server
    with search and browse options ...

        python YourPythonPath/Lib/pydoc.py -g

    The browse option is useful because it also lists
    docs for any installed site-packages ...

-- 
Cousin Stanley
Human Being
Phoenix, Arizona





From kevin at cazabon.com  Wed Jul  9 15:37:16 2003
From: kevin at cazabon.com (Kevin Cazabon)
Date: 9 Jul 2003 12:37:16 -0700
Subject: Executables under Win32
References: <5vkngvs2epq6rv0a3rodeb839k5ls8bafj@4ax.com> <3F0BE70A.165B5274@engcorp.com> <2q7ogvksccj59kqmmed91u5ohqqvs2hhej@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <5a4226f0.0307091137.48f1f71f@posting.google.com>

> >There is py2exe and the Macmillan Installer, as well as some lesser
> >known alternatives.  py2exe runs on Windows only, the other on Windows
> >and Linux (at least).  A quick Google for either should get you there...
> >
> >-Peter
> 
> 
> Many thanks :-)

And let me say that py2exe is amazingly simple to use, and works
flawlessly (at least for the 4-5 applications I've used it for) even
for Tcl/Tk programs that some of the other .exe options have issues
with.

Also, if you need an independent installer program to install the
resulting .exe and files, innosetup works very well
(www.innosetup.com).

(Thanks to everyone working on those projects!!!)
Kevin.



From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Jul  4 14:12:45 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 14:12:45 -0400
Subject: pyBoards.com
References: <191e20c8.0307031711.42d4e46b@posting.google.com> <3f054d9a$0$13803$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net> <840592e1.0307040900.14e3e668@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3F05C39D.3F65B89C@engcorp.com>

Hannu Kankaanp?? wrote:
> 
> "Guyon Mor?e" <gumuz at looze.net> wrote in message news:<3f054d9a$0$13803$4d4ebb8e at news.nl.uu.net>...
> > I like the initiative for a messageboard for Python, but I think it would be
> > similar to this newsgroup.... and I am quite happy with  it so I don't
> > really see a use for it imho
> 
> Message boards are more user friendly, better organized (big plus) and more
> interactive. At least when I post here from Google Groups, it takes
> 3-6 hours for the message to arrive :P. Many questions thus are answered
> 5 times by different people. But I don't know if the messages would arrive
> quicker if I used a mail program for posting.

Google Groups likely takes its feed directly of a Usenet site, and Usenet
in general suffers from large propagation delay.  It is that delay, caused
by messages filtering slowly across the Usenet network, which leads to the
"5 answers" problem, not Google Groups itself.

The mailing list should be effectively instantaneous in comparison.

-Peter



From gh at ghaering.de  Tue Jul 22 13:09:01 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 19:09:01 +0200
Subject: Python scripting with Paint Shop Pro 8.0
In-Reply-To: <lsnqhv81fee8j6rl7g22pt22ob8muj5p4j@4ax.com>
References: <kl3lhvgh5iillo5g9jvff92qkc8i2022nm@4ax.com>
	<vhoefdfn39v19f@corp.supernews.com>
	<f2kohvou89dehu9a4623jb950jfh37n0m5@4ax.com>
	<lsnqhv81fee8j6rl7g22pt22ob8muj5p4j@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3F1D6FAD.1060402@ghaering.de>

Marc Wilson wrote:
> [...] One thing I've not found in the reference (perhaps I'm looking in the wrong
> place): how do I capture command-line parameters? [...]

sys.argv

For fancier options, check out optparse (new in 2.3) or getopt.

-- Gerhard




From jerf at jerf.org  Thu Jul  3 22:06:44 2003
From: jerf at jerf.org (Jeremy Bowers)
Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 02:06:44 GMT
Subject: When is unit-testing bad?
References: <3EEE1210.3004AB45@engcorp.com> <878ys06tcv.fsf_-_@pobox.com> <vf11j7l3f0ku52@news.supernews.com> <87of0pno5s.fsf@titan.staselog.com> <vg40uajdqo3ac4@corp.supernews.com> <bdunoh$1pms$1@biggoron.nerim.net> <87k7azdber.fsf@titan.staselog.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2003.07.03.22.06.36.253215@jerf.org>

On Thu, 03 Jul 2003 15:47:56 +0300, Edvard Majakari wrote:
> Which reminds me: I've seen two web unit testing frameworks, one which was
> by the originial PyUT author, and the other that seemed more complete,
> though not so well documented either.
> 
> I've fancied developing one myself - so I'd like to know what kind of
> things should I take into account before trying such a largish project?  I
> know that it is hard to test Web-based applications, for one thing - the
> user doesn't usually type GET parameters to the URL, while doing so could
> be the only possible way to do automated web site testing. Ideas/comments?

Well, technically I'm using Perl to do this but this message will apply
equally to Python unit testing on the web; it's not language specific.

We're using mod_perl, and I'm using Test::Unit, which is a testing
framework for Perl deliberately set up to look like JUnit, as Python's
unittest is. What I'm doing is implementing an Apache Request faked-up
object (which I later found existed in the form of the Perl module
Apache::FakeRequest, but I think my own solution is better suited to our
needs anyhow), and then going ahead and calling the Apache handlers
directly with that object. It's tedious to construct the object if you
can't find one pre-made, but it's easy.

I've got mine set up so it records what is printed with it, so it can do
things like extract necessary data from the output if necessary. I also
have it set up to easily pass form parameters in according to the system
we use.

Once you do this, there's not a *whole* lot of difference between normal
unit testing and this. In fact, you'll have an even easier time then me if
you aren't grafting unit testing onto a multi-year old system with little
to no functional separation (for practical purposes).

In the end only the very, very last step (converting your output to HTML)
is hard to test meaningfully, since it's hard to program whether it's
doing what it's supposed to do in an automated fashion. But even in a web
application, that's not the majority of the code, unless *all* you are
doing is wrapping a shell around somebody else's library. Everything else
is fairly straightforward.



From dkuhlman at rexx.com  Tue Jul 29 14:24:49 2003
From: dkuhlman at rexx.com (Dave Kuhlman)
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 11:24:49 -0700
Subject: Factories in Python
References: <73b00f0c.0307290721.7a19e3d0@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bg6e50$l3nst$1@ID-139865.news.uni-berlin.de>

Robert Ferrell wrote:

[snip]
> 
> However, I'm guessing that I'm not understanding other benefits of
> using factories in Python.  Does anybody have examples or pointers
> on how use of factories in Python?

Here is a link:

    http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/86900

A reason for using a factory is that the client (the code that
creates the instance) does not know which class or sub-class it
wants to create an instance of.  So, you build a factory that is
smart enough to create an instance of the right class.

In my case, while parsing an XML document and creating instances
of nodes in the tree that represents the document, the classes
(the super-class of each node class) does the parsing.  However,
each super-class must be smart enough to create a tree populated
with instances of sub-classes, which may contain additional custom
code,*if* they are available.

I'd be interested in other reasons for using factories.

 - Dave

-- 
Dave Kuhlman
http://www.rexx.com/~dkuhlman
dkuhlman at rexx.com



From jimmy at retzlaff.com  Tue Jul  1 06:13:19 2003
From: jimmy at retzlaff.com (Jimmy Retzlaff)
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 03:13:19 -0700
Subject: ANN: pyUnRAR 0.1
Message-ID: <A7B5C22F20EE3C4E95744E2F03F1887F022073@MAYOR.retzlaff.com>

Oleg Broytmann (phd at phd.pp.ru) wrote:
>Hello!

Hi Oleg!

>On Mon, Jun 30, 2003 at 04:38:29AM -0700, Jimmy Retzlaff wrote:
>> pyUnRAR requires Microsoft Windows, Python 2.2 or higher, and ctypes
>> 0.6.2.
>   Can you instead (or in addition) to wrap http://www.unrarlib.org/ -
it
>is much more portable?

I can't in the short term. I don't have the time and I actually need to
extract files from RAR v3 archives in a project of mine - the library at
http://www.unrarlib.org doesn't appear to support v3 archives yet.

Perhaps when I do have more time that library will support v3, so I'll
take a look again then. Thanks for the suggestion!

Jimmy




From heikowu at ceosg.de  Tue Jul 29 15:51:06 2003
From: heikowu at ceosg.de (Heiko Wundram)
Date: 29 Jul 2003 21:51:06 +0200
Subject: Itertools
In-Reply-To: <KKtVa.8$Y5.1@llslave.llan.ll.mit.edu>
References: <KKtVa.8$Y5.1@llslave.llan.ll.mit.edu>
Message-ID: <1059508266.1668.64.camel@d168.stw.stud.uni-saarland.de>

Untested code that does basically this, but beware of any traps (read
and understand the code before trying to use it!!!), uses Python 2.3
functionality, but could be amended:

--- START OF CODE ---

import copy

class IDup(object):
	def __init__(self,iterin):
		self.__iter = iterin
		self.__iterno = 0
		self.__iteritems = []
		self.__hasstopped = None

	def registerIter():
		iterno = self.__iterno
		self.__iterno += 1
		self.__iteritems.append([])

	def getNext(self,iterno):
		if self.__iteritems[iterno]:
			iteritem = self.__iteritems[iterno].pop(0)
		elif self.__hasstopped is not None:
			raise self.__hasstopped
		else:
			try:
				iteritem = self.__iter.next()
			except StopIteration, e:
				self.__hasstopped = e
				raise
			for id, i in enumerate(self.__iteritems):
				if id <> iterno:
					i.append(copy.deepcopy(iteritem))
		return iteritem

class IDupped(object):
	def __init__(self,idup):
		self.__idup = idup
		self.__iterno = idup.registerIter()

	def next(self):
		return self.__idup.getNext(self.__iterno)

def isplit(iterin,splitno=2):
	idup = IDup(iterin)
	iduppeds = []
	for i in range(splitno):
		iduppeds.append(IDupped(idup))
	return tuple(iduppeds)

test = ["hello","how","are","you?"]
x, y = isplit(iter(test))

for i in x:
	print i
for i in y:
	print i

--- END OF CODE ---

Pitfalls:

1) You may not use the original iterator after it has been split.
2) Your iterator must return values which are copyable. If you wish for
the values to be truly equal (even in ID) or they are not copyable, then
just remove the copy.deepcopy from the code.

HTH!

Heiko.





From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Mon Jul  7 09:46:49 2003
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 7 Jul 2003 09:46:49 -0400
Subject: NNTP mirror of c.l.p?
References: <2a897f11.0307070510.37a4ad41@posting.google.com> <Xns93B19276DDE06duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <bebtk9$hpv$1@panix3.panix.com>

In article <Xns93B19276DDE06duncanrcpcouk at 127.0.0.1>,
Duncan Booth  <duncan at rcp.co.uk> wrote:
>wayne at mishre.com (Wayne Pierce) wrote in 
>news:2a897f11.0307070510.37a4ad41 at posting.google.com:
>>
>> Does anyone know if there is a public server where I can download
>> c.l.p?  I typically use GG, but want to test a program on my
>> Palm-based system for accessing NNTP servers.
>
>Try news.freenet.de for public readonly access.

Another popular option is http://news.cis.dfn.de/
which provides write access, too, but you have to register.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"Not everything in life has a clue in front of it...."  --JMS



From brian094 at sympatico.ca  Mon Jul 21 11:15:56 2003
From: brian094 at sympatico.ca (Brian Alexander)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 11:15:56 -0400
Subject: update of curse panel in background?
Message-ID: <3F1C03AC.1090502@sympatico.ca>

Hello;

Is it possible to update the contents of a curses panel in the 
background without bringing it to the top level?

Or ...

Does any update activity bring a panel to the foreground?

Brian.




From doug.hendricks at tnzi.com  Fri Jul 25 01:53:56 2003
From: doug.hendricks at tnzi.com (the_rev_dharma_roadkill)
Date: 24 Jul 2003 22:53:56 -0700
Subject: Python 2.3c2
Message-ID: <fb91dbec.0307242153.74aacbc2@posting.google.com>

Just grabbed and tried it on Tru64 5.1A (hp/compaq alpha ES40):
Looks good:
make test gives:
............
221 tests OK.
34 tests skipped:
    test_aepack test_al test_audioop test_bsddb test_bsddb3 test_bz2
    test_cd test_cl test_curses test_dl test_email_codecs test_gdbm
    test_gl test_imageop test_imgfile test_linuxaudiodev test_locale
    test_macfs test_macostools test_mpz test_nis test_normalization
    test_ossaudiodev test_pep277 test_plistlib test_rgbimg
    test_scriptpackages test_socket_ssl test_socketserver
    test_sunaudiodev test_timeout test_urllibnet test_winreg
    test_winsound
Ask someone to teach regrtest.py about which tests are
expected to get skipped on osf1V5.
............
Thanks a bunch and good luck on the final 2.3!

Doug



From mcfletch at rogers.com  Sun Jul  6 17:21:00 2003
From: mcfletch at rogers.com (Mike C. Fletcher)
Date: Sun, 06 Jul 2003 17:21:00 -0400
Subject: Search for mapping solution
In-Reply-To: <be9t66$2otne$1@ID-47851.news.dfncis.de>
References: <be9t66$2otne$1@ID-47851.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <3F0892BC.2040800@rogers.com>

result = {}
for (name, whatever, costs) in lines:
    costs = float(number.replace(',','.'))
    dict[name] = dict.get( name, 0.0) + costs

(that's untested, but you should get the idea).  Note, however, floating 
point is generally a poor choice for accounting applications, so you may 
want to look into the libraries for fixed-point calculations.

HTH,
Mike

Markus Joschko wrote:

>Hi,
>stated in a post befor, I'm a java programmer, fascinated about the elegant
>way python solves iterations. Maybe you can show me a solution how to map
>the following
>
>I have a List:
>
>Name - Number - Costs
>
>lines = [['fred','333','0,10'],['sam','444','1'],['fred','333','0,50']]
>
>Now I want to have it in a dictionary(name,costs)  Should look like
>{'fred':'0,60' , 'sam':'1'}
>
>What's an elegant way to do it? I can use a lot of loops, but I assume, that
>there is a better way of doing so.
>
>Thanks, 
> Markus
>  
>
_______________________________________
  Mike C. Fletcher
  Designer, VR Plumber, Coder
  http://members.rogers.com/mcfletch/







From woooee at yahoo.com  Tue Jul  1 19:56:16 2003
From: woooee at yahoo.com (Curly Joe)
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 16:56:16 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Good code patterns in Python
Message-ID: <20030701235616.97308.qmail@web20503.mail.yahoo.com>

In your original example,

if some_condition:
some_name = some_value
else:
some_name = other_value

the default value is with the else statement.  It is
always some_name = other_value as a default whenever
some_condition isn't met, so in the second part, your
code should read:

some_name = other_value
if some_condition:
some_name = some_value

not vice versa as you had it - if I am interpreting it
correctly.
some_name = some_value
if not some_condition:
some_name = other_value

Either way, you or I are making a mistake with your
code, while using an if/else doesn't produce this type
of misunderstanding IMHO.  Obviously, clarity is in
the eye of the beholder though, and so there is, are,
and will always be differences, and this is a good
thing.


__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
http://sbc.yahoo.com




From akineko at pacbell.net  Thu Jul 10 12:45:38 2003
From: akineko at pacbell.net (Aki Niimura)
Date: 10 Jul 2003 09:45:38 -0700
Subject: Python and freeze (something odd)
References: <b714b8de.0307091146.534dcdd9@posting.google.com> <3F0D5078.1CF6F138@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <b714b8de.0307100845.6707032@posting.google.com>

Alan Kennedy <alanmk at hotmail.com> wrote in message 
> I think this might be related to a problem that existed in many
> embedding situations. Check this bug on sourceforge
> 
> [663074]: codec registry and Python embedding problem
> https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&aid=663074&group_id=5470&atid=105470
> 
> I had a similar problem with mod_python and python 2.2.2. I upgraded
> to python 2.2.3, and the problem just went away.
> 
> So it's probably worth upgrading to 2.2.3, and see if that fixes the
> problem?

Alan, thank you very much for your kind posting.
I'm very surprised to hear a similar problem has existed.
Unfortunately, I have already python 2.2.3. No stable version to upgrade.
However, the bug info gave me many places to start.
I definitely look into this further.

Thanks!
Aki Niimura



From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Jul 25 11:15:03 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 11:15:03 -0400
Subject: How to detect typos in Python programs
References: <ZPaUa.6$gZ.133@news.oracle.com>
Message-ID: <3F214977.AEB088C8@engcorp.com>

Manish Jethani wrote:
> 
> Is there a way to detect typos in a Python program, before
> actually having to run it.  Let's say I have a function like this:
> 
>   def server_closed_connection():
>     session.abost()
> 
> Here, abort() is actually misspelt.  The only time my program
> follows this path is when the server disconnects from its
> end--and that's like once in 100 sessions.  So sometimes I
> release the program, people start using it, and then someone
> reports this typo after 4-5 days of the release (though it's
> trivial to fix manually at the user's end, or I can give a patch).
> 
> How can we detect these kinds of errors at development time?
> It's not practical for me to have a test script that can make
> the program go through all (most) the possible code paths.

You have no good alternative.  Why do you say it's impractical
to actually test your software before it's shipped?  Isn't it
more impractical to rely on your users to test the software,
thinking it should work?

Unit testing in Python is *really* easy.  I can't think of any
reason not to do it as the best way of catching problems like you
show above.  If you resist :-), however, you might find PyChecker
will help.  I'm not sure if it can do anything in the above case
yet, however.

-Peter



From abelikov72 at hotmail.com  Tue Jul  8 19:32:29 2003
From: abelikov72 at hotmail.com (Afanasiy)
Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 23:32:29 GMT
Subject: Python vs PHP
References: <mailman.1057574470.1750.python-list@python.org> <kmolgv4mp12o71ocion7ra0m2s9fcrqjdk@4ax.com> <slrnbglqp8.os1.jon+usenet@snowy.squish.net> <h7rlgvkogjr3t8geb36v6jjk4u5n9cdm2s@4ax.com> <slrnbgltd7.os1.jon+usenet@snowy.squish.net> <moulgv8ehi6680j6to1ai6tlmopm0srons@4ax.com> <slrnbgm1jg.sv7.jon+usenet@snowy.squish.net>
Message-ID: <45lmgv4nqd0fjtt18ra70519cr5mf3d7mu@4ax.com>

On 8 Jul 2003 17:59:12 GMT, Jon Ribbens <jon+usenet at unequivocal.co.uk>
wrote:


>I don't understand why you keep saying "CGI is not an option" when
>nobody has suggested that you use it.

Ok



From jjl at pobox.com  Fri Jul 11 11:00:52 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 11 Jul 2003 16:00:52 +0100
Subject: Securing 'pickle'
References: <pan.2003.07.11.01.20.47.998070@127.0.0.1> <slrnbgs4hc.hop.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local> <7x1xwxu98y.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <3F0E1875.574DC6D7@alcyone.com> <mailman.1057892296.5329.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87k7apyuor.fsf@pobox.com>

Ian Bicking <ianb at colorstudy.com> writes:
[...]
> Security isn't a big deal -- or rather, securing cookies isn't a big
> deal.

I don't understand.  The problem is that pickles can be constructed
that can damage systems when unpickled, is that right?  If that's
true, then surely unpickling cookie data is unsafe, because stuff
coming in from the network has to be regarded as malevolent.  Are you
saying that web server environments are sufficiently-well bolted down
that no pickle attack will work?  But belt-and-braces is the best
policy, isn't it?


> and IE has a
> bug where you can't redirect and set a cookie at the same time, which
> can really drive you crazy if you don't know about it.
[...]

Hah.  There's a slight irony there, given that they fought against
restrictions on setting cookies from 'unverified' third parties when
the (more-or-less stillborn) cookie RFCs were being written.  So they
argue against that, then end up partially implementing it by
accident...


John



From omega at silvreus.eu.org  Mon Jul 14 04:44:24 2003
From: omega at silvreus.eu.org (OM)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 10:44:24 +0200
Subject: training for newbies
Message-ID: <betqim$8re$1@atlantis.news.tpi.pl>

hi there
do you know any sites with free programs for newbies, which will help me in
progress? i know that only way to develop is writing programs, but in my
book i don't have programs to write, only questions..





From mis6 at pitt.edu  Mon Jul 28 19:30:03 2003
From: mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato)
Date: 28 Jul 2003 16:30:03 -0700
Subject: pretty printing graphs
References: <mailman.1059413382.3564.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <2259b0e2.0307281530.218400ae@posting.google.com>

"Scherer, Bill" <Bill.Scherer at verizonwireless.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.1059413382.3564.python-list at python.org>...

Hey "dot" is great! I didn't know about it before readin your post.

In a very short time I came out with the following recipe to draw
Python inheritance hierarchies (which I post since it is pretty
short and useful ;):


"How to draw inheritance hierarchies via dot"

import os

def label(i,n):
    if n>1: return '[label="%s"]' % (i+1)
    return ""

def dotMRO(cls):
    "Generates the dot code for the MRO directed graph"
    yield "digraph MRO_of_%s{\n" % cls.__name__
    for c in cls.__mro__:
        n=len(c.__bases__)
        yield ' '.join(['  %s -> %s %s;' % (b.__name__,c.__name__,label(i,n))
                         for i,b in enumerate(c.__bases__)])
    yield '}'

# Example hierarchy    
O = object
class F(O): pass
class E(O): pass
class D(O): pass
class G(O): pass
class C(F,D,G): pass
class B(E,D): pass
class A(B,C): pass

# creates the graph
dotcode='\n'.join(dotMRO(A)); print dotcode
os.system('echo "%s" | dot -Tps > prova.ps' % dotcode)
os.system('gv prova.ps&')

Assuming you have "dot" and the standard Unix tools installed this 
will generate a very nice diagram. I am open to suggestion to improve it,  
since this is may first trial with "dot". I am quite impressed by the
easy of use.

Very nice!


            Michele



From rtomes at ihug.co.nz  Thu Jul  3 00:23:04 2003
From: rtomes at ihug.co.nz (Ray Tomes)
Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 16:23:04 +1200
Subject: zip() or what?
Message-ID: <3F03AFA8.7030905@ihug.co.nz>

Hi all

Many thanks to those that answered my questions about whitespace and ord() 
being reverse of chr(). As well as the 2 things I asked about I learned 
about 5 other useful things.

This I am trying to flip an array around so that the "subscripts" happen 
in the opposite order and reading the docs I thought that zip() did this. 
So I tried it like this:

x=[[0.1,0.2],[1.1,1.2],[2.1,2.2]]
print zip(x)

and what I got was (removing the .0000000001s):

[([0.1, 0.2],), ([1.1, 1.2],), ([2.1, 2.2],)]

which is just my original array with an extra useless level in it.
What I really wanted was this:

[[0.1,1.1,2.1],[0.2,1.2,2.2]]

So my question is how do I do that easily?
And what on earth is zip() doing?

Alternatively, is there a construct to get x[*][i] if you know what I mean?

Have fun

Ray




From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Thu Jul 31 18:02:19 2003
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 18:02:19 -0400
Subject: time, calendar, datetime, etc
References: <153fa67.0307300326.45a29380@posting.google.com> <mailman.1059593025.652.python-list@python.org> <bg9utn$59g$1@news7.svr.pol.co.uk> <mailman.1059656902.23276.python-list@python.org> <1sScnW0Sv7DzrrSiRTvUpQ@speakeasy.net>
Message-ID: <vij4ftc5psv054@news.supernews.com>

"A.M. Kuchling" <amk at amk.ca> wrote in message
news:1sScnW0Sv7DzrrSiRTvUpQ at speakeasy.net...
> On Thu, 31 Jul 2003 08:06:29 -0500,
> Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com> quoted:
> >     Ben> doing... I'm just a newbie who's found date and time handling
in
> >     Ben> Python to be confusing, and thought I'd mention it. (And I am
the
> >     Ben> original poster, btw.)  If nobody else agrees, maybe it's not
> >     Ben> really a problem.
>
> It's also not very hard to write a PEP; start with an existing PEP for the
> headings, and skim PEP 1 for the PEP life cycle.
>
> Parsing of date/time formats is the big omission from 2.3's date support
and
> the big advantage that mxDateTime still has.  With 2.3 you still have to
> roll your own parser for ISO-8601 format or whatever.  Fixing the rfc822
> module is probably the largest problem; we can't just change getdate() to
> return a datetime instead of a 9-tuple, so it'll have to be supported as a
> new method.  The standard library should probably use datetime as much as
> possible, but backwards-compatible 9-tuple-based interfaces will still
need
> to be supported.

The datetime module is a great piece of work, but I wonder why it
wasn't made more compatible with the time module? It would seem to
be simple enough to provide a sequence interface so the object
supports the 9-tuple directly (for either naive or tz-aware, pick one,)
and also supports the same attributes as the objects in the time package.

I also wonder why anyone made the choice to set the year origin at
1AD? That decision, by itself, makes it almost unusable for my hobby
(astrological software, which is basically astronomical software
with a different focus.) Astronomical dates are always measured
in days since 4700 and something BC. History did not begin, after
all, six years after JC was born. (And astronomical years, btw,
do include a year zero, which historical years do not.)

Other than that, and a couple of other bobbles (depending on the
C library for strftime(), and the lack of an input parser both come
to mind) it's a great piece of work.

John Roth


>
> --amk                                                    (www.amk.ca)
> Hello! I'm the Doctor. I believe you want to kill me.
>       -- The Doctor, in "Silver Nemesis"





From km-news1 at onlinehome.de  Wed Jul 23 17:28:43 2003
From: km-news1 at onlinehome.de (Klaus Meyer)
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 23:28:43 +0200
Subject: Confusing automated translators.
References: <37d6f77c.0307130932.1e3adf0d@posting.google.com> <3f11ac74$0$49101$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl> <ad052e5c.0307131718.4903430d@posting.google.com> <3F12808B.E53193B8@hotmail.com> <bf49ch$6n7$1@news.hccnet.nl> <3f15b04b$0$49114$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <oprsr8l5s2mu3s0q@news.cis.dfn.de>

>
> "Als achter vliegen vliegen vliegen, vliegen vliegen vliegen achterna."
>
> (btw, a tip: 'vliegen' is a verb and also a noun in Dutch.)

And in German you can see the nouns :-)

print "Wenn hinter Fliegen Fliegen fliegen fliegen Fliegen Fliegen nach."

(print because this is comp.lang.python ;-)

-- 
Gru? - regards Klaus :-)



From sybrenUSE at YOURthirdtower.imagination.com  Mon Jul 14 15:21:24 2003
From: sybrenUSE at YOURthirdtower.imagination.com (Sybren Stuvel)
Date: 14 Jul 2003 19:21:24 GMT
Subject: PyQT, Sharp Zaurus and color in the QTextBrowser
Message-ID: <slrnbh60lj.3jm.sybrenUSE@sybren.thirdtower.com>

Hi there!

I'm a beginning Python programmer, and I like it a lot already. Since my
Sharp Zaurus has a fairly complete Python environment including PyQT, I
thought it would be the perfect language for programming some nice
things on my Zaurus. The thing I really missed on the Z was a good
Jabber client. That's why I'm building my own. Things are going good,
and in a few nights I've been able to get a fairly decent though
under-featured client.

There is a small thing annoying me, though I'm trying to show the name
of the person saying something in color: red = someone else, blue = me.
This is an example of the text I'm adding to the QTextBrowser:

<font color='#0000ff'>&lt;me&gt;</font>: hello world

It works like a charm on my PC, but on the Zaurus the text is all black.
Does anyone know how I can fix this?

~~~ brainwave flash ~~~

I just thought of something: what if the Z doesn't allow single quotes
around the "color" attribute? I gave it a try, and replaced the text
with:

<font color="#0000ff">&lt;me&gt;</font>: hello world

And it works!

Anyways, perhaps this will be picked up by others having the same
problem. I'll stick around in this group and try to soak up as many good
knowledge from people as I can ;-)

A bit about myself: I'm a 24 year old, studying Computer Sciences at the
University of Amsterdam, I'm Dutch (like Guido ;-)) and I currently live
in Amsterdam too. I've been a programmer for half my life now :)

Sybren
-- 
The problem with the world is stupidity. Not saying there should be a
capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the
safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself? 



From b.neijt at ai.rug.nl  Thu Jul 31 10:54:11 2003
From: b.neijt at ai.rug.nl (Bram)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 16:54:11 +0200
Subject: Newbie: implementing lowlevel protocol over socket int32 data handling
Message-ID: <bgbaj5$kgv$2@news4.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>

Hi,
Summ: "What is the best way to handle int8,16 and 32 data in python?"

Im currently working on a class to implement the gui protocol of 
mldonkey. (http://mldonkey.lemmster.de/wiki/index.php/GuiProtocol)
However this requires to send int32 and int16 and even int8 integers.

To create data I'm using the work-around of converting everything to hex 
values, and then converting the hex values to a data string wich I put 
on the socket (e.g. "\x00\xF0").
I could do the same on the recieving end: chop it up in bytes and 
convert them to numbers (combining the hi and lo bytes of the int16 with 
some calculations)

However, there must be a better way of doing this.
Can anyone help me on this problem?

Bram






From bgailer at alum.rpi.edu  Fri Jul 25 14:42:53 2003
From: bgailer at alum.rpi.edu (Bob Gailer)
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 12:42:53 -0600
Subject: data conversion question (binary string to 'real string')
In-Reply-To: <bfrk1j$dkh$0@216.39.172.122>
References: <bfr9h7$i62j8$1@ID-155280.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20030725124016.03b462f0@66.28.54.253>

FWIW here's an interesting way to get at the bit:
if 13 is the number you want to represent in binary and you want 6 bits:
 >>> [13>>x & 1 for x in range(6,-1,-1)]
[0, 0, 0, 1, 1, 0, 1]

Bob Gailer
bgailer at alum.rpi.edu
303 442 2625
-------------- next part --------------

---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.500 / Virus Database: 298 - Release Date: 7/10/2003

From candiazoo at mac.com  Fri Jul 11 23:17:52 2003
From: candiazoo at mac.com (Michael S. Jessop)
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 03:17:52 GMT
Subject: Problem with MySQLdb on Mac OS X...
Message-ID: <110720032317344670%candiazoo@mac.com>

I made modifications to setup.py to set safe threading to NO and also
to point to the "real" location of the mysql libraries and stuff like
that.  To test it I wrote a simple script that just tries to connect to
the database.  It fails.  It also fails interactively.  Here is what I
am getting...

[h000a9578d1ca:~] mike% /usr/local/bin/python2.3 foo.py
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "foo.py", line 7, in ?
    cnn = MySQLdb.connect(db=DB, user=USER, passwd=PASSWD)
  File
"/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/lib/python2.3/site-pa
ckages/MySQLdb/__init__.py", line 63, in Connect
    return apply(Connection, args, kwargs)
  File
"/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/lib/python2.3/site-pa
ckages/MySQLdb/connections.py", line 116, in __init__
    self.converter[types.StringType] = self.string_literal
TypeError: object does not support item assignment
Segmentation fault

The download, build and install went fine.  This same code works (well,
different database name, user and password) on a different machine. 
The database, username and password are all correct.

Any thoughts?

Thanks!

Mike



From bill7525 at shaw.ca  Sat Jul 26 00:13:26 2003
From: bill7525 at shaw.ca (Survival Bill)
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 04:13:26 GMT
Subject: how do I add a subscribe by email in my web page
Message-ID: <GdnUa.517675$3C2.13678045@news3.calgary.shaw.ca>

I have things setup so far that users are able to subscribe via the web page
that the program creates for users to subscribe that's ok, but what I want
is to be able for users to subscribe via an e-mail statement in my web page
can this even be done using the

href=mailto:Survivalbillnewsletter at survivalbill.com?subject=subscribe

I have tried but can not get it to subscribe users to the list

I have left out the " and < > statements  out of the mailto:
I did cuz I don't know how it will show in the newsgroup...

I just set this up the other day and have searched for the info at python
couldn't find what I was looking for so I am trying to pick your brains, I
know easy stuff  right well ya if you know how! problem I do not know the
how part   :(
--
_____________________________________

Survival Bill Outdoor Retreat
Website: http://www.survivalbill.com
Message Forum: http://www.survivalbill.com/cgi-bin/forum.pl
Photos: http://www.survivalbill.com/photosa.htm








From inyeol.lee at siimage.com  Thu Jul 24 19:15:17 2003
From: inyeol.lee at siimage.com (Inyeol Lee)
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 16:15:17 -0700
Subject: very Very VERY dumb Question About The new Set( ) 's
In-Reply-To: <3f205d3c.745868662@news.blueyonder.co.uk>
References: <20030723144732.13232.00000523@mb-m10.aol.com> <3f205d3c.745868662@news.blueyonder.co.uk>
Message-ID: <20030724231517.GA15764@siliconimage.com>

On Thu, Jul 24, 2003 at 10:31:11PM +0000, Alan Gauld wrote:
[...]
> Since both dictionaries and Sets require unique members/keys, 
> why not use the dictionary braces but without the key/value
> syntax. So:
> 
> mySet = {1,2,3,4}
> 
> Which is illegal for a dictionary but would be OK for a Set.
> It also just happens to be the same delimiters used in math 
> for sets...

See PEP 218. It describes a long term plan to make set builtin type,
including syntax for constant set {1,2,3,4} and empty set {-}.

Inyeol




From peter at engcorp.com  Sat Jul  5 17:24:30 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sat, 05 Jul 2003 17:24:30 -0400
Subject: Calculating Year, Month and Day of Life
References: <be72ph$k60$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <be74tp$pi4$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <be7a10$6b8$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <3F07420E.BC640F@engcorp.com>

hokiegal99 wrote:
> 
> Once again, I'm making progress on my own. Here's where I stand now:
> 
> ----------------------
> from time import *
> local = localtime()
> 
> y = input("Enter the year of birth: ")
> m = input("Enter the month of birth: ")
> d = input("Enter the day of birth: ")
> 
> age = y,m,d
> print "You are", local[0] - age[0], "years", local[1] - age[1], "months"
> -----------------------

Unfortunately, you won't get the right result from this in some
cases, such as when the current month is earlier in the year
than the month in which the person was born..

Using mxDateTime's support for this instead will probably be easier.



From giles_brown at hotmail.com  Wed Jul 30 04:42:31 2003
From: giles_brown at hotmail.com (Giles Brown)
Date: 30 Jul 2003 01:42:31 -0700
Subject: Cannot register dll created using "py2exe --com-dll"
References: <57de9986.0307290052.688e54c5@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <57de9986.0307300042.3d3fa846@posting.google.com>

giles_brown at hotmail.com (Giles Brown) wrote in message news:<57de9986.0307290052.688e54c5 at posting.google.com>...
> I'm feeling quite dumb this morning.

Next morning not quite so dumb.  Finally got the dll to register so
I thought I'd post my findings for the record.

Mark was spot on (of course!) about the lost python exception.  I
added
"import win32traceutil" into boot_com_server and low the traceback
showed in pythonwin.

I had omitted to mention that I am using win32com client inside the
dll,
so I added the necessary '--progids' (only "ADODB.Connection.2.1" as
it happens).

<aside>
Inside one of my modules I use the gencache.EnsureModule function. 
"""#Microsoft ActiveX Data Objects 2.1 Library
# {00000201-0000-0010-8000-00AA006D2EA4}, lcid=0, major=2, minor=1
gencache.EnsureModule('{00000201-0000-0010-8000-00AA006D2EA4}', 0, 2,
1)
"""
This function takes a CLSID (? I think).  If I want to use this
specific
typelib based module, how do I determine what progid to give to py2exe
to ensure that this module is picked up?  Or am I doing the wrong
thing?
</aside>

Then I found that my dll when run (for registration) was trying to
generate
an '__init__.py' in the equivalent of the gen_py folder.  This was
failing
because it was looking for win32com.__gen_path__ which is not set for 
frozen code.  To overcome this I added (something like) the following
code
to my module that was included the EnsureModule call.

if getattr(pythoncom, 'frozen', False):

    import os
    import win32com
    import tempfile

    # Assign (temporary) directory for gencache
    # (tempfile.tempdir is always 'None' so use TemporaryFile()) :-(
    win32com.__gen_path__ = os.path.join(os.path.dirname(
        tempfile.TemporaryFile().name), 'gencache')

Finally I was getting the "codec" problem.  I tried '--packages
encodings' but
for some reason this did not seem to build encodings.__init__.pyc into
the
dll.  This exhibited itself in the "no codec search functions
registered"
LookupError.  Adding '--include encodings" fixed this.  This lead (not
unreasonably) to a "unknown encoding: utf-8" LookupError which was
fixed by
added ",encodings.utf_8" to the command line.

The final working command line looked like this:
c:\python23\python madeupname/setup_dll.py py2exe --com-dll --include
encodings,encodings.utf_8 --excludes Tkinter --progids
ADODB.Connection.2.1

Now I need to test the DLL :-)

Cheers and thanks,
Giles



From intentionally at blank.co.uk  Mon Jul 14 22:28:26 2003
From: intentionally at blank.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 03:28:26 +0100
Subject: anything like C++ references?
References: <13t0hvsb7idh0g6ac3upe5k0qd6flc17ah@4ax.com> <pan.2003.07.13.10.58.11.376531@127.0.0.1> <lq-cnWRG9rRuMIyiXTWJjQ@comcast.com> <b8c3hvsesjoumiboobml3nsnajtha99mp1@4ax.com> <3f12a45b.6171268@news.freeserve.com>
Message-ID: <p4p6hvgifcvs59pedksvi9aol6vo4850oi@4ax.com>

On Mon, 14 Jul 2003 12:56:06 GMT, ivlenin at gmx.co.uk (I V) wrote:

>On Sun, 13 Jul 2003 20:39:56 +0100, Stephen Horne
><intentionally at blank.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>The fact is that 'assignment' has a common meaning separate from the
>>choice of programming language, and that the way Python handles name
>
>Yes.
>
>>binding means that meaning is not respected by Python for mutable
>>objects.
>
>No.
>
>Assignment takes a name and binds it to a different value, whatever
>programming language you use.

No.

We are in severely pedantic mode in this thread, because of the nature
of the argument.

'value' is a term which has meaning in mathematics and computer
science. Values are *always* immutable, whatever language you use.

In Python, assignment takes a name and binds it to an object (or a
pointer to that object).

In C/C++, assignment takes a name and binds it to a symbolic
representation of a value.

Objects can be mutable. Representations can be mutable. However, using
that mutability should respect the idea from mathematics of variables
binding to values. The fact that the binding is implemented using
objects or symbolic representations is irrelevant - they are low level
implementation details. You shouldn't have to worry about them in a
'very high level' language.

Of course if you explicitly ask to deal with the object (rather than
the value) that is a different thing. But that isn't the case in
Python. It fails to respect the mathematical concept of variables
binding to values BY DEFAULT. This regularly causes confusion and
errors.




From donn at drizzle.com  Sun Jul 13 13:22:44 2003
From: donn at drizzle.com (Donn Cave)
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 17:22:44 -0000
Subject: timeout on os.popen3?
References: <uzbQa.4655$9f7.529830@news02.tsnz.net>
Message-ID: <1058116964.113730@yasure>

Quoth selwyn <selwyn at home.net.nz>:
| I would like some advice on how I can include a timeout for a scanning 
| operation using unzip on linux and os.popen3.
|
| I am scanning through about 30g of rescued zip files, looking for xml 
| extensions within those files.  What I have put together 'works', but 
| only for what appears to be properly reconstructed files. 
| Unfortunately, some aren't AND for some reason no standard error 
| messages are being triggered. This causes my script to hang indefinitely.
|
| What I would like is for the script to move on to the next file, after 
| say a 10sec period of inactivity, but am unsure how this could be 
| included. I have googled around and think the select module may be 
| helpful, but after reading the docs I am still confused :-(

You might be able to manage it with select.  When you start up a program
on two or more pipes, you have kind of a juggling act.  Select is the
juggler, it can tell which pipe has data to read and which is ready for
more data to be written to it.  However, it's still a juggling act and
you need some skill, too.  If you decide to try it, also read about
os.read, and don't try to use the file object for reading.

On the other hand, if you don't mind writing to disk files instead, that
will completely eliminate this aspect of your problem.  Like

   file = '%s%s' % (sys.argv[1], i)
   ev = os.system('unzip -l "%s" > /tmp/zout 2> /tmp/zerr' % (file,)
   if os.WEXITSTATUS(ev) != 0 or nonEmptyFile('/tmp/zerr'):
      dealWithError(ev, open('/tmp/zerr', 'r'))
   elif searchFile('/tmp/zout', 'xml'):
      dealWithFile(file)

	Donn Cave, donn at drizzle.com



From martin at v.loewis.de  Fri Jul 25 17:57:02 2003
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-15?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 25 Jul 2003 23:57:02 +0200
Subject: Why instancemethod when I can add functions to classes outside class body?
References: <6f03c4a5.0307242027.85f195a@posting.google.com> <m3oezj6v6w.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <slrnbi1hsk.hkq.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local> <3f210717$0$76049$edfadb0f@dread11.news.tele.dk> <z66cnQ3uq8sT8byiU-KYvw@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <m3k7a6xob5.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

"Terry Reedy" <tjreedy at udel.edu> writes:

> So to answer the OP's question, the problem solved is that directly
> assigning a function as an instance attribute binds the function as a
> function, which means no *automatic* access to the instance and its
> other attributes.

To *really* answer the OP's question: API, in general, has no purpose
- it has a function. Whether that function is useful for something
depends on the application. So APIs don't try to solve problems
themselves - it is the developers who solve the problems using the API.

So one may ask "what is the problem that could be solved using
new.instancemethod". These questions often don't have good answers,
and I believe yours isn't much better than that the problem being
solved is

"Create an object of type instancemethod, given the function, the
instance, and the class."

Whether it is useful to create such objects depends on the
application.

Regards,
Martin




From JensRie at gmx.de  Thu Jul 10 04:29:57 2003
From: JensRie at gmx.de (Jens Riedel)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 10:29:57 +0200
Subject: Zope problem:  objectValues('Folder')
References: <3F0D11C7.4010805@gmx.de> <3F0D21D4.3040902@mxm.dk>
Message-ID: <3F0D2405.1070606@gmx.de>

Max M schrieb:

>><ul>
>><dtml-in expr="objectValues('Folder')">
>><li><a href="&dtml-absolute_url;"><dtml-var title_or_id></a></li><br>
>></dtml-in>
>></ul>

> If you have written it exactly like that, it should work. You have no 
> folders inside the folder you are running it in then.

That's my problem. I followed the instructions of the Zope Book example 
exactly and created 3 folders in the folder I use the 
objectValues()-method on.

In another example I have the folder "photos" with 3 jpg-files in it. 
When I call "photos.objectValues()" I get a list with the 3 files, if I 
use "photos.objectValues('File')" I get nothing...
The objectValues-method seems not working when I specify it on a type.


> I assume you have not written your code that way, but rather:
> 
>      objectValues(['Folder','File'])

Correct, I did write either objectValues('Folder') or 
objectValues('File') in my code.

Greetings,
Jens




From paul at boddie.net  Wed Jul  9 05:59:29 2003
From: paul at boddie.net (Paul Boddie)
Date: 9 Jul 2003 02:59:29 -0700
Subject: mx odbc
References: <3f0accb5$0$13191$edfadb0f@dread15.news.tele.dk> <mailman.1057680332.32247.python-list@python.org> <pan.2003.07.08.21.08.42.395562@grex_nospam_.org>
Message-ID: <23891c90.0307090159.108be38@posting.google.com>

"trewornan" <galen at grex_nospam_.org> wrote in message news:<pan.2003.07.08.21.08.42.395562 at grex_nospam_.org>...
> On Tue, 08 Jul 2003 18:04:11 +0200, M.-A. Lemburg wrote:
> 
> > Having a maintained and actively supported ODBC interface which
> > works on all major platforms, not just Windows ?!
> 
> Agreed that this must be a lot of work but most of us use open source
> software for a reason.

Yes, mostly for access to the sources, the possibility of
redistribution and the various other freedoms associated with Open
Source/Free Software.

Paul

P.S. Of course it doesn't hurt to get stuff for free, but if that was
the most important thing, you'd surely be content to download
proprietary "free stuff", demos and evaluations (and be at the mercy
of the binary-only distributor in question).



From pinard at iro.umontreal.ca  Tue Jul 15 10:24:17 2003
From: pinard at iro.umontreal.ca (Francois Pinard)
Date: 15 Jul 2003 10:24:17 -0400
Subject: Confusing automated translators.
In-Reply-To: <87brvw3ula.fsf@pobox.com>
References: <37d6f77c.0307130932.1e3adf0d@posting.google.com>
	<3f11ac74$0$49101$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
	<ad052e5c.0307131718.4903430d@posting.google.com>
	<3F12808B.E53193B8@hotmail.com> <87brvw3ula.fsf@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <oqbrvvhnqm.fsf@alcyon.progiciels-bpi.ca>

[John J. Lee]

> Alan Kennedy <alanmk at hotmail.com> writes:

> > I'd love to hear of other similar phrases.  And somehow I intuit
> > there's people in this ng who know lots of them :-)

> There are so many...

Automated translators which ignore punctuation are pretty fragile, too.
Here is a case where the exact same words are used, besides punctuation.
I read in one of Audouard's books ("De la connerie et des cons", if
I remember correctly), about Montcalm, a French Canadian military of
old times.  The history reports that he said:

   "Messieurs les Anglais, tirez les premiers!"

but Audouard wrote that he fears the correct writing should have been
something like:

   "Messieurs!  Les Anglais...  Tirez les premiers!"

P.S. - I confess I would have more difficulty relating this one to Python.
The word categorisation disambiguation program that I intend to rewrite
in Python, one of these days, would (correctly) yield the same results
for both sentences, so Python-wise for me, this is a non-issue! :-)

-- 
Fran?ois Pinard   http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/~pinard




From jepler at unpythonic.net  Sun Jul 27 21:59:33 2003
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 20:59:33 -0500
Subject: multiple file objects for some file?
In-Reply-To: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCAEFNFAAB.tim.one@comcast.net>
References: <BB495860.2AB00%grobinson@transpose.com> <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCAEFNFAAB.tim.one@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <20030728015933.GA7068@unpythonic.net>

On Sun, Jul 27, 2003 at 01:17:50PM -0400, Tim Peters wrote:
> You can get in deep trouble if the file mutates, though.  Python's file
> objects are wrappers around C's streams, and each C stream has its own
> buffers.  So, for example, a mutation (a file write) made via one file
> object won't necessarily update the buffers held by the other file objects
> (it depends on how your platform C works, but I don't know of any that
> automagically try to update buffers across multiple streams open on the same
> file), and then reading via some other file object may continue to see stale
> data (left over in its buffer).

... I believe you're "safe" if you always:
1) flush() after a write that may be followed by a read:
	f.write("abcd"); f.flush()
2) perform a no-op seek() before a read that may follow a write
	SEEK_CUR=1
	f1.seek(0, SEEK_CUR); f.read(4)

Furthermore, using a "0" buffering argument to open() [in the reader
and the writer] should save you from needing to do this, *but* it may
negatively impact performance.

Finally, you could use os.open/os.read/os.write, which should not have
these buffering problems, but will also not have the performance gain of
stdio buffering.  This performance diference may or may not be
significant in your application.

Jeff




From nospamjynyl at yahoo.co.nz  Mon Jul 28 02:29:41 2003
From: nospamjynyl at yahoo.co.nz (Peter)
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 18:29:41 +1200
Subject: default import path
Message-ID: <3f24c37e@news.maxnet.co.nz>

<newbie question>
How can I edit the default import path for Python under Windows?

I want to use the piddle module.  So far, I've copied the unzipped contents
of the zip file to c:\prog~1\python\lib\site-packages, but how do I set it
so this is automatically on the python path?

(I don't want to have to manually add that directory every time.)

TIA

Peter




From rmunn at pobox.com  Fri Jul 18 10:44:17 2003
From: rmunn at pobox.com (Robin Munn)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 14:44:17 GMT
Subject: Augmented Assignment question
References: <215bhv0bnkn13eivh0s64ic5ml8obpgfg7@4ax.com> <20030716132455272-0600@news.xmission.com> <j0bF/ks/K3gM089yn@the-wire.com>
Message-ID: <slrnbhg1vg.1sg.rmunn@localhost.localdomain>

Mel Wilson <mwilson at the-wire.com> wrote:
> In article <20030716132455272-0600 at news.xmission.com>,
> Adam Ruth <owski at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>As a side note, I wouldn't have thought that the augmented assign would
>>work the way you tried to use it.  I would have thought that it would be
>>analagous to the + operator and sequences:
>>
>>>	x = [1,2,3]
>>>	y = [1,2,3]
>>>	x + y
>>[1,2,3,1,2,3]
>>
>>So that the agumented form would be:
>>
>>>	x = [1,2,3]
>>>	x += [1,2,3]
>>[1,2,3,1,2,3]
>>
>>But I've never tried it before and didn't know that it didn't work with
>>sequences.  You learn something new every day.
> 
> It does:
> 
>>>> def multi():
> ...     return 4, 5, 6
> ...
>>>> a = (1,2,3)
>>>> a += multi()
>>>> a
> (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6)
> 
> It seems to be just that += refuses to work with tuple unpacking.

There's a subtle but very important difference between those two.

Lists:

>>> l = [1,2,3]
>>> id(l)
135706404
>>> l += [4,5,6]
>>> l
[1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6]
>>> id(l)
135706404


Tuples:

>>> t = (1,2,3)
>>> id(t)
135480164
>>> t += (4,5,6)
>>> t
(1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6)
>>> id(t)
135423036


Notice how the id remained the same in list augmented assignment, while
it changed in tuple augmented assignment. That's because in the first
example, l is not rebound; instead, the list object that l points to
gets extended. In the second example, t gets rebound to a *new* tuple
object. Another demonstration:

Lists:

>>> l = [1,2,3]
>>> id(l)
135704132
>>> l2 = l
>>> l += [4,5,6]
>>> id(l)
135704132
>>> l
[1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6]
>>> l2
[1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6]


Tuples:

>>> t = (1,2,3)
>>> id(t)
135480164
>>> t2 = t
>>> t += (4,5,6)
>>> id(t)
135423036
>>> t
(1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6)
>>> t2
(1, 2, 3)


When you do augmented assignment on a tuple, a new object is created and
the name is rebound. In the example above, t2 still points to the old
object, which was not affected (since tuples are immutable).

One more example, with lists:

>>> l = [1,2,3]
>>> id(l)
135714564
>>> l2 = l
>>> l = l + [4,5,6]
>>> id(l)
135704372
>>> l
[1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6]
>>> l2
[1, 2, 3]


This time we wrote "l = l + [4,5,6]" instead of "l += [4,5,6]". See the
difference?

This subtlety is why you should never, IMHO, try to apply augmented
assignment to a function parameter that's supposed to be a sequence. You
might intend for a tuple to be passed to your function, but what if
someone passes in a list instead? Be explicit: if you mean
"l.append(l2)", then write that. If you mean "l = l + l2", then write
that.

The only time I use augmented assignment is when I'm incrementing
integers, e.g. "count += 1".

-- 
Robin Munn <rmunn at pobox.com> | http://www.rmunn.com/ | PGP key 0x6AFB6838
-----------------------------+-----------------------+----------------------
"Remember, when it comes to commercial TV, the program is not the product.
YOU are the product, and the advertiser is the customer." - Mark W. Schumann



From stauffer at swarthmore.edu  Thu Jul 24 15:22:42 2003
From: stauffer at swarthmore.edu (Glenn Stauffer)
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 15:22:42 -0400
Subject: running python
In-Reply-To: <bfp9uh$76a$1@news7.svr.pol.co.uk>
References: <bfp9uh$76a$1@news7.svr.pol.co.uk>
Message-ID: <3F203202.3030000@swarthmore.edu>

Iain Macalister wrote:

>How do you run files written with python if you don't have the compiler and
>stuff on your computer?
>  
>
Find a machine that does...

Or, are you asking 'how can you distribute a python program so that 
someone who does not have python installed can run it'?  There is a 
python freeze utility that converts scripts to executables (not the same 
as a python compiler) and there are some other programs that can do this:

http://starship.python.net/crew/theller/py2exe/
http://www.mcmillan-inc.com/install1.html
http://www.computronix.com/utilities.shtml

--Glenn





From ianb at colorstudy.com  Wed Jul  9 21:53:17 2003
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: 09 Jul 2003 20:53:17 -0500
Subject: Sample Web application (Re: Python vs PHP)
In-Reply-To: <tYqcnZji2bzS5ZGiRTvUqg@speakeasy.net>
References: <mailman.1057574470.1750.python-list@python.org>
	 <kmolgv4mp12o71ocion7ra0m2s9fcrqjdk@4ax.com>
	 <begc78$rui$1@mawar.singnet.com.sg> <VLicnfImRJLPkpGiRTvUqA@speakeasy.net>
	 <behc69$o3t$1@news1.wdf.sap-ag.de>
	 <mailman.1057772055.6056.python-list@python.org>
	 <tYqcnZji2bzS5ZGiRTvUqg@speakeasy.net>
Message-ID: <1057801996.3737.1223.camel@lothlorien>

On Wed, 2003-07-09 at 15:17, A.M. Kuchling wrote:
> On 09 Jul 2003 12:34:46 -0500, 
> 	Ian Bicking <ianb at colorstudy.com> wrote:
> > One of the big problems I also had was installation.  Many of the
> > frameworks require non-trivial Apache configuration, which hinders
> > experimentation.  Actually solving this is significant work, though --
> > but also something which very much deserves solving.
> 
> Why?  The purpose is to let users compare the structure of applications, not
> benchmarking.  I envision users browsing the code for each framework, never
> running anything until they've selected a framework and begun implementing
> an application.   Solving web server configuration problems is out of scope.

Evaluation of course only starts with reading, of course you are also
going to want to experiment directly with the system.

But more generally, I can't stand writing about how to work around
problems, when (as a programmer) it is within my power to fix those
problems.  It seems far better to spend time fixing problems than merely
documenting them.  

The thing is, for many of the developers of these frameworks, the payoff
for improving installation isn't that big, because they wrote this for
themselves and they only have a handful of installations to do.  But
installation becomes a much bigger deal when considering larger
adoption, and I think installation is a major hindrance to Python's
adoption as a web programming language -- a combination off difficult
installation, and a lack of robustness and generality in installation
methods.

  Ian






From stuart at bmsi.com  Thu Jul  3 16:20:32 2003
From: stuart at bmsi.com (Stuart D. Gathman)
Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 16:20:32 -0400
Subject: Auto free Buffer objects in C API?
Message-ID: <pan.2003.07.03.20.20.31.884888.29833@bmsi.com>

I have a Python C module (dspam.c - http://bmsi.com/python/milter.html).
It needs to return some large buffers allocated by the library I am
wrapping.  The buffers must be freed by the caller when finished.  At
present, I do the following to copy, then free the buffer:

PyObject *
toBuffer(char *buf;int len) {
  PyObject *sig = PyBuffer_New(len);
  if (sig) {
    void *data;
    int dlen;
    if (!PyObject_AsWriteBuffer(sig,&data,&dlen))
      memcpy(data,buf,dlen);
    else {
      Py_DECREF(sig);
      sig = 0;
    }
  }
  free(buf);
  return sig;
}

Now, I would like to use PyBuffer_FromMemory(buf,len), but then I have no
way of knowing when to free(buf).  Or do I?  Am I missing something?  Is
there a way for me to know when the Buffer object is being deleted so
that I can free the underlying C data?



From scasjos at mixmail.com  Mon Jul  7 10:47:42 2003
From: scasjos at mixmail.com (jose maria)
Date: 7 Jul 2003 07:47:42 -0700
Subject: Socket Win32 IO
Message-ID: <99071af2.0307070647.6ab3e329@posting.google.com>

Hi all I?m a newbie in python Im try to modify in win32 IOTCL of file
handle socket to set parameter 0x98000001 but i have error
(api_error:(1, 'DeviceIoControl', 'Incorrect function.'))
and I dont know how continue.
the porpuse of this code its to make a simple sniffer


This is my code  

from socket import * 
import win32api
import win32file 

Ip=getprotobyname("ip")
SIO_RCVALL=0x98000001
Sock=socket(AF_INET,SOCK_RAW,Ip)
ip=('xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx',0)
Sock.bind(ip)# bind scoket to port 
fh=Sock.fileno() # Get file handle
test=win32file.DeviceIoControl(fh,SIO_RCVALL,'',0) # Failed
....
....

Thanks in advance



From tim.one at comcast.net  Sun Jul 13 16:57:18 2003
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 16:57:18 -0400
Subject: anything like C++ references?
In-Reply-To: <b8c3hvsesjoumiboobml3nsnajtha99mp1@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCGEEDEOAB.tim.one@comcast.net>

[Stephen Horne]
> ...
> The fact is that 'assignment' has a common meaning separate from the
> choice of programming language,

Well, that's not a fact, although there may be much commonality among the
(necessarily few, if you believe this) programming languages you've used.
Python's assignment semantics are in fact common among languages
higher-level than those of the Fortran/COBOL/Algol/C ilk.  For examples,
Lisp, SNOBOL4, Scheme, Smalltalk and Icon are (very) much like Python in
this respect.  So is Java in the end, although the underlying machinery is
more complicated there.

> and that the way Python handles name binding means that meaning is not
> respected by Python for mutable objects.

Python's assignment semantics don't vary according to object type.

> ...
> Python, however, does not respect this meaning.

This doesn't say more than that Python works differently than the languages
you've used.  It really isn't a question of respect <wink>.

> It uses an arbitrary distinction based on whether or not the object
> has internals that can be usefully in-place modified, and uses that
> distinction to vary the effect of assignment in an arbitrary,
> inconsistent and error-prone way.

It's deliberate and thoroughly consistent.  Any assignment semantics are
error-prone in some contexts, though (Python's included -- side effects are
like that).  The simplicity and absolute consistency of Python-style
assignment semantics are probably easiest for first-time programmers to pick
up, and certainly dead easy for people coming from Lisp (etc) to pick up --
people coming from C (etc) often struggle with inappropriate expectations at
first.

> The need for a distinct tuple type is a symptom of the arbitrary
> nature of this.

Python's assignment semantics have nothing to do with mutability versus
immutability.  The latter is a type-dependent distinction; assignment
semantics in Python don't depend on object type in any way.

> ...
> I've already posted too much on this, so this is going to be the end
> to it. But Pythons semantics with regard to mutable and immutable
> objects are simply bizarre.

Hmm.  Mutable objects can be mutated, and immutable objects cannot be
mutated.  That doesn't seem bizarre.

> A historic justification may be plausible and backward compatibility
> is then an important issue, but I really cannot accept claims that
> Python is doing the right thing here.

Well, I can assure you Guido wouldn't change anything about Python's
assignment semantics if were able to do it all over from scratch.  That's a
puzzle for you to work out, then:  is Guido unique, or are all Dutch people
that stupid <wink>?





From bvelkur at yahoo.com  Thu Jul 10 17:47:53 2003
From: bvelkur at yahoo.com (0wl)
Date: 10 Jul 2003 14:47:53 -0700
Subject: Using  xml.xpath question.
Message-ID: <de5c7cc0.0307101347.2c707bf8@posting.google.com>

Hi,

I am trying to get the value of child from  

xmlstr = """<p:root xmlns:p="http://tempuri.org/string"><p:child
DataType="String">Hellpppp</p:child></p:root>"""

using 
doc=parseString(xmlstr)
nodeList = xml.xpath.Evaluate("/p:root/p:child/text()", doc)

and am getting the following exception:

xml.xpath.RuntimeException: Undefined namespace prefix: "p".

I am using python 2.2.2 with PyXML 0.8

I think my usage of the Evaluate is wrong or incomplete. I have tried
to google for information but to no avail. Can anyone please shed
light on this.

Thanks
Bipin



From claird at lairds.com  Fri Jul  4 05:58:48 2003
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 09:58:48 -0000
Subject: Kylix reality (was: Python is a gem, you need to keep pushing it ....)
References: <0gVMa.126$a%1.9289@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au> <mailman.1057242668.12614.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <vgajuoiu1sc4d5@corp.supernews.com>

In article <mailman.1057242668.12614.python-list at python.org>,
delphiro  <delphiro at zonnet.nl> wrote:
>Same story here,
>
>My company primarily uses Delphi (Object Pascal) which is actualy a nice
>development language / IDE but with linux as a rising star and Kylix as
>a nasty and not-so-friendly-and-platform-indepandent Delphi-clone we
>have decided to use Python for a number of small projects. As a python
			.
			.
			.
How is Kylix "nasty and not-so-friendly"?  I
generally think of it as rather polished and
useful.
-- 

Cameron Laird <Cameron at Lairds.com>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
Personal:  http://phaseit.net/claird/home.html



From alf at fayauffre.org  Thu Jul 31 05:22:41 2003
From: alf at fayauffre.org (Alexandre Fayolle)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 09:22:41 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Python speed vs csharp
References: <rkdc7poiachh.1x4jtxjzaf3zo.dlg@40tude.net>
Message-ID: <slrnbihnug.pii.alf@largo.fayauffre.org>

Dans l'article <rkdc7poiachh.1x4jtxjzaf3zo.dlg at 40tude.net>, Mike a ?crit :
 
 
> This is an error function approximation, which gets called around 1.5
> billion times during the simulation, and takes around 3500 seconds (just
> under an hour) to complete. While trying to speed things up, I created a
> simple test case with the code above and a main function to call it 10
> million times. The code takes roughly 210 seconds to run. 

Hi there. 

This is pure numerical computation, it is therefore a job for psyco
(http://psyco.sf.net/)

I've made a quick test, cut'n'pasted your code in a small python module,
added the following lines:
--------------------------8<----------------------
def run():
    results = []
    for i in xrange(10000000):
        x = i/100. # apply erfc to a float
        y = erfc(x)

if __name__ == '__main__':
    run()
-------------------------8<-----------------------
at the end. So I'm basically calling erfc 1 million times, and not doing 
much with the result. On my older machine (1.1GHz Celeron), this takes
13 seconds. 

By adding the following 2 lines at the top of the script:
---8<-------
import psyco
psyco.full()
----8<------
I get down to under 4 seconds. 

This is obviously not as good as you'd get with c#, but it's still a
great gain with not too much work, I think. 

-- 
Alexandre Fayolle
LOGILAB, Paris (France).
http://www.logilab.com   http://www.logilab.fr  http://www.logilab.org
D?veloppement logiciel avanc? - Intelligence Artificielle - Formations



From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Mon Jul 28 13:13:10 2003
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 12:13:10 -0500
Subject: pretty printing graphs
Message-ID: <m21xway3q1.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

I have a tree structure (directed acyclic graph), where each node can
represent itself as a multi-line string that is not very wide (eg, 10
chars per line).  I would like to print the graph like

        C
   C1        C2
C1a  C1b   C2a   C2b

Where C, C1, etc.. are the multiline string blocks referred to above.
Does anybody know of a tool that can do this.  Here is an example,
somewhat long because I have to create the multiline strings.

    from __future__ import division, generators

    def enumerate(seq):
        "Waiting for python 2.3"
        for i in range(len(seq)):
            yield i, seq[i]

    class O:

        def __init__(self, text):
            self.text = text
        def __str__(self):
            return self.text 

    class Node:
        def __init__(self, o):
            self.node = o
            self.children = []

        def __str__(self):
                s = ''
                #s += str(self.node) + '\n\n'
                if len(self.children)==0: return s
                childStrs = [str(child.node) for child in self.children]

                lines = [[] for tmp in childStrs]
                for lineNum, t in enumerate(childStrs):
                    lines[lineNum].extend(t.split('\n'))

                maxLines = max([len(l) for l in lines])
                sep = '      '
                for lineNum in range(maxLines):
                    row = ''
                    for childNum in range(len(childStrs)): 
                        row += lines[childNum][lineNum] + sep
                    s += row + '\n'
                s += '\n\n'
                for l in self.children:
                    s += str(l) 
                return s



    n0 = Node(O("""1  2  3  0
    1  2  3  4 
    1  2  1  5 
    1  2  1  1 
    4  3  2  2 
    4  3  2  7 
    2  3  2  3 
    2  3  2  9"""))


    n1 = Node(O("""1  2  3  0
    1  2  3  4
    1  2  1  5
    1  2  1  1
    ----------
    1  1  0  0"""))

    n2 = Node(O("""4  3  2  2
    4  3  2  7
    2  3  2  3
    2  3  2  9
    ----------
    0  1  1  0"""))



    n1a = Node(O("""1  2  1  5
    1  2  1  1
    ----------
    1  1  1  0"""))

    n1b = Node(O("""1  2  3  0
    1  2  3  4
    ----------
    1  1  1  0"""))

    n2a = Node(O("""2  3  2  3
    2  3  2  9
    ----------
    1  1  1  0"""))

    n2b = Node(O("""4  3  2  2
    4  3  2  7
    ----------
    1  1  1  0"""))


    n0.children.extend([n1, n2])
    n1.children.extend([n1a, n1b])
    n2.children.extend([n2a, n2b])
    print n0

Which prints:

1  2  3  0      4  3  2  2      
1  2  3  4      4  3  2  7      
1  2  1  5      2  3  2  3      
1  2  1  1      2  3  2  9      
----------      ----------      
1  1  0  0      0  1  1  0      


1  2  1  5      1  2  3  0      
1  2  1  1      1  2  3  4      
----------      ----------      
1  1  1  0      1  1  1  0      


2  3  2  3      4  3  2  2      
2  3  2  9      4  3  2  7      
----------      ----------      
1  1  1  0      1  1  1  0      


This does part of the work, printing the child nodes on the same rows,
but doesn't the hierarchical part very well.  What I would like is
something like this:

			 1  2  3  0  
			 1  2  3  4 
			 1  2  1  5 
			 1  2  1  1 
			 4  3  2  2 
			 4  3  2  7 
			 2  3  2  3 
			 2  3  2  9
 
	       1  2  3  0        4  3  2  2      
	       1  2  3  4        4  3  2  7      
	       1  2  1  5        2  3  2  3      
	       1  2  1  1        2  3  2  9      
	       ----------        ----------      
	       1  1  0  0        0  1  1  0      


1  2  1  5    1  2  3  0          2  3  2  3      4  3  2  2      
1  2  1  1    1  2  3  4          2  3  2  9      4  3  2  7      
----------    ----------          ----------      ----------      
1  1  1  0    1  1  1  0          1  1  1  0      1  1  1  0      


Thanks,
John Hunter




From buzzard at urubu.freeserve.co.uk  Mon Jul 28 20:28:09 2003
From: buzzard at urubu.freeserve.co.uk (Duncan Smith)
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 01:28:09 +0100
Subject: urn scheme
References: <bg38sa$e6r$1@news7.svr.pol.co.uk> <rsycnR1hv40gyriiU-KYvg@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <bg4eum$am5$1@news7.svr.pol.co.uk>

"Terry Reedy" <tjreedy at udel.edu> wrote in message
news:rsycnR1hv40gyriiU-KYvg at comcast.com...
>
> "Duncan Smith" <buzzard at urubu.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:bg38sa$e6r$1 at news7.svr.pol.co.uk...

[snip]

> >                 cum_bins[j] += (j - adj) * others + adj * drawn
>
> I have no idea what this is about.
>

'others' defines the adjustment to be made to the bins not sampled from (so
zero for most purposes).

The following gives me about a 30% speed up.  Should save me a day or two.
Cheers.

Duncan


def gen_samples(colours, draws, iterations):
    ncolours = len(colours)
    contents = []
    for i in range(ncolours):
       contents.extend(colours[i]*[i])
    if len(contents) / 2 > draws:
        draws = len(contents) - draws
        for i in range(iterations):
            random.shuffle(contents)
            drawn = contents[:draws]
            res = colours[:]
            for index in drawn:
                res[index] -= 1
            yield res
    else:
        for i in range(iterations):
            random.shuffle(contents)
            drawn = contents[:draws]
            res = ncolours * [0]
            for index in drawn:
                res[index] += 1
            yield res





From ta-meyer at ihug.co.nz  Fri Jul 18 19:45:57 2003
From: ta-meyer at ihug.co.nz (Tony Meyer)
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 11:45:57 +1200
Subject: IMAP examples
In-Reply-To: <1ED4ECF91CDED24C8D012BCF2B034F13026F855B@its-xchg4.massey.ac.nz>
Message-ID: <1ED4ECF91CDED24C8D012BCF2B034F13026F280F@its-xchg4.massey.ac.nz>

>  It would be nice if it also explained some of the magic numbers 
>  and strings in comments or in some text around the example: 
> 
> 	Why data[0]
> 	Why M.search(None, 'ALL')
> 	and why '(RFC822)' as the 2nd arg in the M.fetch()

You're not asking for documentation about imaplib here, you're asking for
documentation about the imap protocol; of course it's not there, you're
looking in the wrong place.  If you don't understand imap, why should you
understand how to use imaplib?

Using imaplib is very similar to simply passing the commands to an imap
server - much more so, for example, than twisted's imap support (which hides
details of IMAP, and so should provide more documentation than imaplib).

>  If we expect people to read the RFCs in order to use the 
> bloody module  than we ought to at least provide the link to 
> the RFC!

What documentation are you looking at?  The 2.2.3 and 2.3b2 doc for imaplib
(i.e. "11.10 imaplib -- IMAP4 protocol client") have links to both RFC2060
and RFC1730; I use them all the time.  Look in the first and second
sentences in the bit just below the heading.

>  The documentation of the .search() method also neglects to 
> make any  mention of 'ALL' though we might expect that to be 
> the MOST COMMON CRITERIUM!  (at least for someone who's just
> trying to learn the module!)

There is no reason that 'ALL' would be any more use than any other fetch
parameter.  In fact, if you're learning imap, then ALL is a terrible place
to start because you'll be overwhelmed with the response, and because ALL is
a macro, not a standard parameter.  You're much better off starting with
something simple, like UID, FLAGS, INTERNALDATE or RFC822.

=Tony Meyer





From pablo at bogus.domain.org  Sat Jul 19 16:37:10 2003
From: pablo at bogus.domain.org (Pablo)
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 22:37:10 +0200
Subject: classes
Message-ID: <pan.2003.07.19.20.37.02.817151@bogus.domain.org>

Hello everyone

I'm rather new to Python and have a problem I hope someone can help me
solve.
I'm used to Java syntax and would like to make a class which holds a
connection object to PostgreSQL database.
I want to make this class as a singleton, and
allow creation only of one instance of the class.

code in Java would like more or less like this:

class Connection{
  private static Connection instance = null;
  private DBConnection = null;	// in python's case it would be pgobject returned
be connect()

  private Connection(){
    DBConnection = pg.DB();
  }

  public static Connection getInstance(){
    if(instance == null)
      instance = new Connection();
    return instance;
};

How can I do the same thing in Python?
How can I declare a static field (and private) of a class and allow access to it only by
a static method?
Can I forbid to instantiate more than one object?

I'd be grateful if someone can explain it to me or send me to the good
resource with description about classes which would have some comparisons
of syntax regardig Java or C++.

Best regards
Pablo



From imbosol at aerojockey.com  Wed Jul 30 19:16:36 2003
From: imbosol at aerojockey.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 23:16:36 GMT
Subject: Exceptions as New Style Classes
References: <98c4ab9a.0307300830.72dcdc74@posting.google.com> <mailman.1059599265.28808.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <olYVa.6227$Jz2.693@nwrdny02.gnilink.net>

Steven Taschuk wrote:
> At the moment the dominant idea for solving these problems is to
> make inheritance from Exception mandatory for exception types; see
> Guido's 11 June post
>    <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-June/036162.html>
> for details.  (I have another idea involving a new special method
> '__raise__', but haven't worked out the details yet.)


Why not give exceptions their own metaclass?  So if type(x) is
ExceptionMetaclass, it's a class.  If type(type(x)) is
ExceptionMetaclass, it's an instance.  Otherwise, it's illegal to
raise it.


-- 
CARL BANKS






From harry.g.george at boeing.com  Fri Jul 11 09:35:34 2003
From: harry.g.george at boeing.com (Harry George)
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 13:35:34 GMT
Subject: object instance data to docbook, xml, pdf, etc?
References: <xqxvfua6zmr.fsf@cola2.ca.boeing.com> <mailman.1057888600.8843.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <xqxsmpdjie1.fsf@cola2.ca.boeing.com>

mertz at gnosis.cx (David Mertz, Ph.D.) writes:

> Harry George <harry.g.george at boeing.com> wrote previously:
> |We are outputting the instance data, sort of like Gnosis xml_objectify,
> |but to docbook DTD.
> 
> You *could* use XSLT to transform the gnosis.xml.pickle output into
> DocBook (I'm pretty sure you mean that, objectify goes in the other
> direction generic-XML -> python).
> 

<blush> Yes, that's what I meant.  BTW, thank you for those tools.


> However, I personally find XSLT extremely awkward.  

Interesting.  I've been pushing back against XSLT ever since it was
invented as a "no parentheses" rendition of DSSSL.  I've run into
other people who used XSLT until they run into a complex task, and
then realize it is a mess.  What's been missing so far is a Python
rendition of the common tasks, and a design pattern for growing
others.

> If someone doesn't
> give you the done-deal, you might find it useful to take
> gnosis.xml.pickle and fork it for your desired DocBook/XML output.  All
> the issues about traversing objects is handled, you should pretty much
> be able to just look for the XML tags that get written, and substitute
> those as needed.
> 

Yep, that's what I had in mind.

> Yours, David...
> 
> --
> Keeping medicines from the bloodstreams of the sick; food from the bellies
> of the hungry; books from the hands of the uneducated; technology from the
> underdeveloped; and putting advocates of freedom in prisons.  Intellectual
> property is to the 21st century what the slave trade was to the 16th.
> 

-- 
harry.g.george at boeing.com
6-6M31 Knowledge Management
Phone: (425) 294-8757



From jwbaxter at spamcop.net  Thu Jul 31 20:33:15 2003
From: jwbaxter at spamcop.net (John Baxter)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 17:33:15 -0700
Subject: RELEASED Python 2.3 (final)
References: <mailman.1059523523.23534.python-list@python.org> <3f27bacd$0$49113$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl> <c76ff6fc.0307301323.62f3ccd6@posting.google.com> <bg9hgu$k31$1@panix2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <jwbaxter-8DBB82.17331531072003@corp.supernews.com>

In article <bg9hgu$k31$1 at panix2.panix.com>, aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) 
wrote:

> Nope.  Kudos is a mass noun, but it's a discrete mass noun.  So you need
> to say "many kudos".  This bit of pedantry is brought to you by "much
> kudo about nothing".

Sometimes, the indiscrete mass nouns are more fun.  ;-)

(Perhaps not for major college football coaches, for whom anything 
indiscrete can be harmful.)

All this aside, heaps of praise and copious congratulations to all 
involved in the release (you know who you are).

And thank you!

  --John



From clpy.NOSPAM at russellsalsbury.com  Mon Jul 21 17:36:15 2003
From: clpy.NOSPAM at russellsalsbury.com (Russ Salsbury)
Date: 21 Jul 2003 14:36:15 -0700
Subject: [OT] SCO is Going After End Users
Message-ID: <4868482a.0307211336.4ca9493a@posting.google.com>

ComputerWorld says that SCO is going to charge Linux end users a
license fee for "the opportunity to run Linux legally."
<http://www.computerworld.com/softwaretopics/os/linux/story/0,10801,83287,00.html?nas=PM-83287>
 Lots of companies will pony up.

I realize that this is OT, but SCO's action strikes at the heart of
Open Source.  Somebody with the right patents can try to tax or shut
down the rest of us, regardless of the validity of their claims.  If
IBM, Red Hat, and the  decide that the the cost of settling is less
than the cost of litigation, we all loose.  Fortunally, the claim
against IBM is so big, $3B that they may fight it instead of settling.

-- Russ



From LogiplexSoftware at earthlink.net  Wed Jul  2 19:17:08 2003
From: LogiplexSoftware at earthlink.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: 02 Jul 2003 16:17:08 -0700
Subject: How Do You Get Redirected Input?
In-Reply-To: <l6GMa.6947$n%5.1338@nwrddc02.gnilink.net>
References: <l6GMa.6947$n%5.1338@nwrddc02.gnilink.net>
Message-ID: <1057187827.1457.59.camel@software1.logiplex.internal>

On Wed, 2003-07-02 at 12:10, not your business wrote:
> I have a shell tool that accepts arguments on the command line. I would like
> to check if the input is being piped in.  That is,

import sys

if sys.stdin.isatty():
    print "not piped in"
else:
    print "piped in"


-- 
Cliff Wells, Software Engineer
Logiplex Corporation (www.logiplex.net)
(503) 978-6726  (800) 735-0555





From fredrik at pythonware.com  Tue Jul 15 04:19:18 2003
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 10:19:18 +0200
Subject: PyQT, Sharp Zaurus and color in the QTextBrowser
References: <slrnbh60lj.3jm.sybrenUSE@sybren.thirdtower.com> <mailman.1058214925.28095.python-list@python.org> <3F132103.4D18759F@engcorp.com> <mailman.1058220622.19636.python-list@python.org> <pan.2003.07.14.23.07.15.471632@jerf.org>
Message-ID: <bf0fk7$399$1@main.gmane.org>

Jeremy Bowers wrote:

> At no point is it ever specified either way in the XHTML specification,
> except by reference to the XML specification.

which is the whole point, of course.

(we've been through this in the XML-RPC and RSS universes
lately; for some reason, some people have a really hard time
understanding that when you base a format on XML, you get
more than just tags in angle brackets ;-)

</F>







From alanmk at hotmail.com  Sun Jul  6 15:54:45 2003
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Sun, 06 Jul 2003 20:54:45 +0100
Subject: Search for mapping solution
References: <be9t66$2otne$1@ID-47851.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <3F087E85.9D8018E9@hotmail.com>

Markus Joschko wrote:

> I have a List: Name - Number - Costs
> 
> lines = [['fred','333','0,10'],['sam','444','1'],['fred','333','0,50']]
> 
> Now I want to have it in a dictionary(name,costs)  Should look like
> {'fred':'0,60' , 'sam':'1'}
> 
> What's an elegant way to do it?

Must ..... resist ..... temptation ..... to ..... write .... oneliners

D'oh! I'm so weak willed....

Python 2.2.3 (#42, May 30 2003, 18:12:08) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on
win32
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> lines = [['fred','333','0,10'],['sam','444','1'],['fred','333','0,50']]
>>> d = dict([(x[0], x[2]) for x in lines])
>>> d
{'sam': '1', 'fred': '0,50'}
>>>

OK, I'll write and maintain a 1000-line perl program as penance ...

sometimes-concise-is-elegant-too-ly yrs.

-- 
alan kennedy
-----------------------------------------------------
check http headers here: http://xhaus.com/headers
email alan:              http://xhaus.com/mailto/alan



From andreas.kuntzagk at mdc-berlin.de  Mon Jul 21 05:02:52 2003
From: andreas.kuntzagk at mdc-berlin.de (Andreas Kuntzagk)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 11:02:52 +0200
Subject: UserDict -> dict, reasons for migrating existing code
Message-ID: <bfga9l$ejp20$1@uni-berlin.de>

Hi,

what would be the reasons to migrate existing code from the use of
UserDict() to dict()? (UserString ...) What would be reasons against?
Reasons I can think of:
pro:
- Speed Improvement because of a level of indirection less
- UserDict can become deprecated

con:
- Code not working whith older python
- cost of migrating large codebase

Do you know other reasons?

Andreas



From member32992 at dbforums.com  Thu Jul 10 16:25:49 2003
From: member32992 at dbforums.com (pygeek)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 20:25:49 +0000
Subject: python mode problem in emacs
Message-ID: <3097083.1057868749@dbforums.com>

Hi everyone.
I've just installed emacs 21.3.1 on my WinXP machine.
I wanted to switch to Python mode then realized that
my emacs lacked the 'python-mode.el' file. After downloading
from python.org and byte-compiling the file,
I went on to look for the file '.emacs' or 'emacs.el' to include a
few lines of
command so that emacs would load python-mode.
I looked through and searched my hard drive, and there wasn't
such a file
by the name '.emacs' or 'emacs.el'. What's going on here? Where are
the files?
Can somebody help me?
Thanks in advance.

--Daniel D.--

--
Posted via http://dbforums.com



From alanmk at hotmail.com  Fri Jul 11 12:16:33 2003
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 17:16:33 +0100
Subject: Securing 'pickle'
References: <pan.2003.07.11.01.20.47.998070@127.0.0.1> <slrnbgs4hc.hop.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local> <7x1xwxu98y.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <3F0E1875.574DC6D7@alcyone.com> <7xk7ap3j6z.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <3F0EE2E1.1C30CEA4@hotmail.com>

Paul Rubin wrote:

> My suggestion is to
> authenticate the cookies with a cryptographic checksum and verify the
> authentication before deserializing the cookies.  That's probably the
> simplest approach.  Keeping session info on a multi-process server (or
> worse, a multi-server network) needs some kind of concurrent storage
> mechanism.  

Paul,

Do you mean transmit the checksum to the client with the cookie? And
check that they match when the cookie and checksum come back?

Or is the checksum stored on the server, in some form of lookup
dictionary keyed by some user session identifier?

regards,

-- 
alan kennedy
-----------------------------------------------------
check http headers here: http://xhaus.com/headers
email alan:              http://xhaus.com/mailto/alan



From dortmann at lsil.com  Wed Jul  2 11:01:44 2003
From: dortmann at lsil.com (Daniel Ortmann)
Date: 02 Jul 2003 10:01:44 -0500
Subject: Python-2.3b1 bugs on Windows2000 with: the new csv module,string       replace, and the re module
In-Reply-To: <16130.58729.717919.803534@montanaro.dyndns.org>
References: <hc6el19am1o.fsf@mhbs.lsil.com>
	<16130.58729.717919.803534@montanaro.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <hc6r8597z1j.fsf@mhbs.lsil.com>

Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com> writes:

Daniel> While using the csv module's DictWriter on MSDOS
Daniel> (a.k.a. Windows2000), the output files get newlines like
Daniel> \x0d\x0d\x0a instead of \x0d\x0a.

Daniel> csvwriter = csv.DictWriter( file( out1filename, 'w' ), infieldnames, extrasaction='ignore' )
Daniel> csvwriter.writerow( dict( zip( infieldnames, infieldnames ) ) )

Skip> CSV files are not really plain text files.  The line terminator
Skip> string is an explicit property of the file.  For example, you
Skip> might want to write a CSV file on a Windows 2000 machine which you
Skip> intend to read on a Mac OS9 system (where the line terminator is
Skip> just \r).  You need to open CSV files with the 'b' flag.  This
Skip> should work for you:

Skip> csvwriter = csv.DictWriter( file( out1filename, 'wb' ), infieldnames, extrasaction='ignore' )
Skip> csvwriter.writerow( dict( zip( infieldnames, infieldnames ) ) )

Ok, that is the same work around that I used.  Perhaps the documentation
should say something about using binary mode?

Or perhaps the DictWriter constructure should open the file in binary
mode if given a string rather than a file object?

How do we avoid people stumbling as I did?

-- 
Daniel Ortmann, LSI Logic, 3425 40th Av NW, Suite 200, Rochester MN 55901
work: Daniel.Ortmann at lsil.com / 507.535.3861 / 63861 int / 8012.3861 gdds
home: ortmann at isl.net / 507.288.7732, 2414 30Av NW #D, Rochester MN 55901




From loiosh13 at yahoo.com  Mon Jul  7 09:40:49 2003
From: loiosh13 at yahoo.com (Tim Isakson)
Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 13:40:49 GMT
Subject: Newbie question: Strange TypeError
References: <pan.2003.07.07.04.09.36.145173@yahoo.com> <1t7Oa.40$DX3.7244067@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2003.07.07.13.46.03.822778@yahoo.com>

Thanks for your help, guys!

I figured it was something that would be obvious once it was explained ;).

Tim



From tdelaney at avaya.com  Fri Jul 25 00:55:27 2003
From: tdelaney at avaya.com (Delaney, Timothy C (Timothy))
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 14:55:27 +1000
Subject: recognizing empty iterators
Message-ID: <338366A6D2E2CA4C9DAEAE652E12A1DE958723@au3010avexu1.global.avaya.com>

> From: Raymond Hettinger [mailto:vze4rx4y at verizon.net]
>
> Yes, it was.  So, Guido decreed that once a iterator has returned
> StopIteration, it will continue to do so on subsequent calls to
> it.next().  Promptly, all of Python's iterators were modified to
> comply.  IOW, iterators can and do stay "permanently exhausted".

Yes - these are the rules, and all the standard iterators conform to them. This is a Good Thing(TM).

A non-standard iterator *may* break the rules (as with just about anything in Python). That would, however, be a Bad Thing(TM).

BTW I was there during those discussions (which is why the thought popped into my mind ...). I can't remember off the top of my head though if iter() is guaranteed to return an iterator that once exhausted will be permanently exhausted (which would probably require a proxy). I'm pretty certain though the the resolution was "the standard iterators will do the Right Thing(TM) and it's up to people to play nice with their own iterators".

> However, Tim is essentially correct in focusing on the "just-in-time"
> nature of iterators.  Part of the core concept for iterators 
> is to *not* know what lies ahead.

Why, thank you sir ;)

Tim Delaney




From gh at ghaering.de  Sun Jul 27 10:11:10 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?windows-1255?Q?Gerhard_Ha=22ring?=)
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 16:11:10 +0200
Subject: datetime 2 win variant datetime
In-Reply-To: <91BFE89EFFA2904E9A4C3ACB4E5F2DF5027AFB@exchange.adrembi.com>
References: <91BFE89EFFA2904E9A4C3ACB4E5F2DF5027AFB@exchange.adrembi.com>
Message-ID: <3F23DD7E.50407@ghaering.de>

Roman Yakovenko wrote:
> Hi. It seems I need a little help with this subject.
> I am trying to convert python datetime ( 2.3 ) to windows variant
> that keeps date and time but I failed.
> 
> Can smbd give me a hint?

I'd rather try ntpd than smbd ;-)

SCNR,

-- Gerhard





From skip at pobox.com  Tue Jul 22 23:09:00 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 22:09:00 -0500
Subject: [OT] RE: Possible use of Python for a voting machine demo project --
        your feedback requested
In-Reply-To: <1ED4ECF91CDED24C8D012BCF2B034F130212AB7C@its-xchg4.massey.ac.nz>
References: <1ED4ECF91CDED24C8D012BCF2B034F13026F8E3D@its-xchg4.massey.ac.nz>
        <1ED4ECF91CDED24C8D012BCF2B034F130212AB7C@its-xchg4.massey.ac.nz>
Message-ID: <16157.64588.289006.311743@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    Tony> (Assuming that William Wright wins, is the the first guy by that
    Tony> name who stands up that becomes president?)

Stranger things have happened here...

Skip




From dale at riverhall.NOSPAM.co.uk  Wed Jul 23 17:58:33 2003
From: dale at riverhall.NOSPAM.co.uk (Dale Strickland-Clak)
Date: 23 Jul 2003 21:58:33 GMT
Subject: Newbie question about Python & W2K Admin
References: <86d2ca4.0307231125.70ee3f57@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <Xns93C1E90E18B4Ddaleriverhallsystems@192.168.8.150>

> I need to change a few Local Security Settings on a number of W2K
> machines. An example of a Security Setting I need to change is the
> "Minimum password length" setting, which is under Account Policies,
> Password Policy.
> 
> Instead of doing this manually on each machine, I would like to have
> an automated way to do this.  Can Python be used for this ?
> 
> Any direction on how to automate this using Python or some other tool
> will be greatly appreciated.

You can do this at domain level if these machines are all part of the same 
domain.

-- 
Dale Strickland-Clark
Riverhall Systems Ltd, www.riverhall.co.uk



From roy at panix.com  Mon Jul 14 19:17:59 2003
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 19:17:59 -0400
Subject: anything like C++ references?
References: <000301c348c7$3c501980$21795418@dell1700> <sag3hv4vf884ed7ouu5cv8ofnopp9j1t12@4ax.com> <bet1sd$ibl$1@panix3.panix.com> <sfa4hvkq1j7rg1iga5j3tk2cc4qpr6e5qk@4ax.com> <beueis$b1d$1@panix3.panix.com> <78c6hvgu599ku5denkkl7pgmd4n13t460i@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <roy-204535.19175914072003@reader1.panix.com>

Stephen Horne <intentionally at blank.co.uk> wrote:
> Ah - but this is also Pythons fault. It has arbitrarily redefined the
> meaning of a mathematics operator - presumably simply because C, C++,
> Java, Basic and others have done this in the past.
> [...]
> Personally, though, I'd go with Pascal on this one.

Most languages have two "equals" operators, one means assignment, the 
other means test for equality.  Depending on the language, these are 
spelled "=" and "==" or ":=" and "=" (or a few other variations).

The wierd thing is that I don't think either one really matches what a 
mathematician means when he writes "=".  In math, "=" is neither an 
assignment or a test: it's an assertion.



From peter at engcorp.com  Sat Jul  5 14:08:36 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sat, 05 Jul 2003 14:08:36 -0400
Subject: A possible bug in python threading/time module?
References: <mailman.1057347547.21819.python-list@python.org> <c09aca51.0307050856.2ed130f9@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3F071424.520DC852@engcorp.com>

vm_usenet wrote:
> 
> Right after I read Tim's recent post, I went to the python CVS and
> noted that Tim refered to me as an 'anonymous coward'. Well Tim, I
> just wanted to say that I appreciate you being part of the community,
> too.

See http://www.computerhope.com/jargon/a/ac.htm, definition #2.  This
is a fairly well-known term for someone who, like you, for some 
strange reason does not want to use their name in discourse with 
others (such as those who are helping them, hint, hint) online.

> I hope to see more mature people working on the Python project than
> Tim.

If you mean you want a greater number of mature people than just 
Tim alone working on the Python project, then we can all agree and,
fortunately, that is the current situation.

If you meant something else, I suggest you learn more about Python
history and about those who have really made Python what it is before
you make comments of that nature.

-Peter



From bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au  Sun Jul 20 00:25:49 2003
From: bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au (Ben Finney)
Date: 20 Jul 2003 14:15:49 +0950
Subject: A challenge to the ASCII proponents.
References: <mailman.1058278343.23104.python-list@python.org> <bf167a$pvt$1@panix2.panix.com> <ufzl7rdno.fsf@online.no> <3F142A58.80426AA4@hotmail.com> <2259b0e2.0307161620.4a9353f1@posting.google.com> <Xns93BB246FDDBCFJanC@213.118.75.80> <3F168011.3AEB3EFC@hotmail.com> <3F172442.2040907@v.loewis.de> <oprsg8jf1xttxc4i@news.t-online.de> <3F195CC4.D426E416@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <slrnbhjm31.tp.bignose-hates-spam@rose.localdomain.fake>

On Sat, 19 Jul 2003 15:59:16 +0100, Alan Kennedy wrote:
> One person, Bengt, said that he couldn't see it

This is identical to the justification of "$BIGNUM percent of our target
users use browser $BROWSER, so we can ignore the rest and use methods
only viewable by browser $BROWSER."

Which quickly leads to "You must use $BROWSER to view this site".  No
thanks.

Provide a method that degrades gracefully to ASCII, the current
standard; then I'll be interested.

-- 
 \     "I'd like to see a nude opera, because when they hit those high |
  `\   notes, I bet you can really see it in those genitals."  -- Jack |
_o__)                                                           Handey |
http://bignose.squidly.org/ 9CFE12B0 791A4267 887F520C B7AC2E51 BD41714B



From faizan at jaredweb.com  Wed Jul 30 20:11:07 2003
From: faizan at jaredweb.com (Fazer)
Date: 30 Jul 2003 17:11:07 -0700
Subject: Python vs. Perl vs. PHP?
References: <7b454334.0307281002.41dae81b@posting.google.com> <bg3qkk$lmr$05$1@news.t-online.com> <FzRVa.11353$R14.4280@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk>
Message-ID: <7b454334.0307301611.1b40ff11@posting.google.com>

Graham Breed <usenet at microtonal.co.uk> wrote in message news:<FzRVa.11353$R14.4280 at news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk>...
> Diez B. Roggisch wrote:
> 
> > http://www.bagley.org/~doug/shootout/craps.shtml
> > 
> > Python is place 13, with a speed index of 578. PHP is second last (before
> > bash) and has a speed index of 197.
> 
> Those benchmarks are doubly useless for the question at hand.  Firstly, 
> they only test command line applications.  Secondly, PHP is compiled 
> without optimizations because the rules state that only the default 
> configuration can be used.  See question 8 of the FAQ:
> 
> http://www.bagley.org/~doug/shootout/faq.shtml
> 
> 
>                       Graham

Yeah, I read the FAQ as well.  I am basically looking for a FAST
alternative to PHP meaning the responce time is fast.  Do you think
that Python with using the CGI module is a good solution?



From kamikaze at kuoi.asui.uidaho.edu  Mon Jul 14 19:31:56 2003
From: kamikaze at kuoi.asui.uidaho.edu (Mark 'Kamikaze' Hughes)
Date: 14 Jul 2003 23:31:56 GMT
Subject: anything like C++ references?
References: <b8c3hvsesjoumiboobml3nsnajtha99mp1@4ax.com> <mailman.1058129901.28248.python-list@python.org> <plk3hv0s1m2egf4s34jo6vjedk0q8r2mu9@4ax.com> <hflQa.48826$wk6.12216@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net> <rp94hvc8fg6h91oe7ctqq9jn9ku3nlud1k@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <slrnbh6fbc.72v.kamikaze@kuoi.asui.uidaho.edu>

Mon, 14 Jul 2003 04:51:10 +0100, Stephen Horne <intentionally at blank.co.uk>:
> On Sun, 13 Jul 2003 22:42:21 GMT, "Bryan" <belred1 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>i just referenced an immutable object via a "pointer" and i __did_not__
>>stuff it into a mutable object as you say.
>>a and b "point" to the same object.
> Technically, but what is the point? You can't do pointer-style things
> with it. You can't change the object in any way without changing the
> id, and you can't use the mechanism to, for instance, allow 'var'
> parameters.
> In short, you are showing evidence of the use of pointers internally
> within Python, but that is not the same as providing pointer-like
> semantics.

  It looks like you've almost reached understanding, though you've been
given a bad start with a very idiosyncratic and monolingual
understanding of what "computer science" teaches--that was certainly not
in the classes I took, but apparently yours were different.

  Python variables are directly equivalent to pointers in C, with some
crippling limitations by C standards.  They only ever point to valid
objects that are dynamically allocated on the heap, never to anything
else.  Even None is an object.  Those objects include what Python calls
"integers", which are really object wrappers around a C int variable.
Assignment only allows you to change a variable to point to some other
valid object.

  At no point in Python do you ever have direct access to a C value
variable, or to a reference to a variable.  They just don't exist.  So
there are some things you can do in C that you can't do the same way in
Python.  And that's *by intention*.  It isn't a bad thing, it was done
for good design reasons, reasons well-tested by previous languages like
Lisp.

  If you really must do a "pointer-style thing" in Python, you can do
this, which is semantically equivalent to the C version:
>>> def incr(pointerToVar):
...     pointerToVar[0] += 1
...
>>> a = [0]
>>> b = a
>>> incr(a)
>>> a[0]
1
>>> b[0]
1
>>> incr(a)
>>> a[0]
2
>>> b[0]
2

  I hope no Pythonista would actually *do* that, but it's working code,
and the foo[0] is similar to explicit referencing and dereferencing of
pointers.

  Since every operation in Python operates on pointers, there's no use
in having a special syntax for it.  You don't need all the * and & and
-> line noise.

  Stop trying to make Python into C/C++, and you'll be happier with it.
Or stop using Python, if you really don't like the design philosophy.
There are plenty of Algol-derived languages out there.  PHP and
especially Perl are more C-like in their internal logic, and you might
find them more pleasant.

-- 
 <a href="http://kuoi.asui.uidaho.edu/~kamikaze/"> Mark Hughes </a>
"The computer is incredibly fast, accurate, and stupid.
 Man is unbelievably slow, inaccurate, and brilliant.
 The marriage of the two is a force beyond calculation." -Leo Cherne



From davecook at nowhere.net  Thu Jul 17 05:37:42 2003
From: davecook at nowhere.net (David M. Cook)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 09:37:42 GMT
Subject: Linux - python vs sh
References: <mailman.1058429007.4582.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <G7uRa.36680$R92.8204@news2.central.cox.net>

In article <mailman.1058429007.4582.python-list at python.org>, Krisztian Kepes
wrote:

> Hi !
> 
> I want to list my rpm database to file with this:
> 
> #!/bin/sh
> 
> file="./allrpm.txt"
> nr=1
> for rpmname in `rpm -qa`
> do
>   echo '>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>' >>$file
>   echo "$nr." >>$file
>   echo "Name: $rpmname" >>$file
>   echo "" >>$file
>   info=`rpm -qi $rpmname`
>   echo "$info" >>$file
>   echo "" >>$file
>   nr=`expr $nr + 1`
> done  

You can get the same type of output using rpm format strings:

rpm -qa --queryformat ">>>>>>>>>>>>\nName: %{NAME}\n%{SUMMARY}\n"

For a listing of query tags, use

rpm --querytags

> But it have two error:
> 1. the $nr is not incremented

I usually use 

nr=$((nr+1))

> 2. the rpm detailed info is not writed to the file

Don't see why that's happening.

> I want to change it to py code. I see an perl code:
> 
> @rpmlist= rpm -qa 
> It is get the rpm's output.
> 
> But how I get the rpm's output in my py program ?
> list= rpm -qa 
> ????

You can use the commands module:

from commands import getstatusoutput

status, output = getstatusoutput("rpm -qa")

if status==0:
   #do stuff with output
else:
     print "There was an error:", output
   
Also take a look at the popen2 module.

There is also an rpm module that Red Hat uses for up2date.  There's not much
in the way of documentation, though.  There is a new book on RPM out that has
a chapter on rpm-python, but at $50 for a paperback I haven't bitten.

Dave Cook




From noah at noah.org  Sun Jul 13 09:25:15 2003
From: noah at noah.org (Noah)
Date: 13 Jul 2003 06:25:15 -0700
Subject: Parsing stdout through a pipe?
References: <bepf5g$7u6st$1@ID-174077.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <c9d82136.0307121824.4b417d37@posting.google.com>

"MK" <MK at foo.com> wrote in message news:<bepf5g$7u6st$1 at ID-174077.news.uni-berlin.de>...
> I have a Win32 console application (SNMPUTIL.EXE) which listens
> to incoming SNMP messages:
> 
> C:\>snmputil trap
> snmputil: listening for traps...
> ...
> I'd like to write a Python application which would intercept/parse this
> stdout
> output, and invoke various pop-ups ("alarms"). Any ideas?

You can use popen and friends to create a pipe to listen to the output
of an external application, but there are many pitfalls to using a 
simple pipe to control an external application.

Do you need to respond to the output by writing message back through stdin?
If yes, then pipes are a bad way to go. Does snmptrap print events continuously
(versus printing just a single trap even and then exiting)? 
If it runs continuously then a pipe is a bad way to go.
The reason these scenarios are bad has to do with way the stdio buffers pipes.
Stdio will not necessarily flush the output buffer after snmptrap prints
some data. Stdio will flush the buffer when full, not after data is printed.
So your snmptrap may print some data, but it will just sit in the buffer
until snmptrap prints more data to fill it the buffer. There is no way for you
to force the buffer to flush.

The way around this is to use UNIX where you can use a pseudo TTY :-)
You can also use Cygwin... I am not sure if there is an ideal solution
under Windows. Cygwin manages to implement a pseduo TTY system on Windows, so
there must be some sort of solution using the win32 API.

I have a pseudo TTY wrapper library called pexpect here:
    http://pexpect.sourceforge.net/
It works pretty well under Cygwin Python, but not under regular Windows python.

On the other hand if your snmptrap program just prints one event and then
exits then you can use pipes because the buffer will be flushed when
snmptrap exits. Or, if you can modify the source to snmptrap then you can
have it force a flush on stdout after each print.

Yours,
Noah



From steve.horsley1 at virgin.NO_SPAM.net  Thu Jul 31 16:54:03 2003
From: steve.horsley1 at virgin.NO_SPAM.net (Steve Horsley)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 21:54:03 +0100
Subject: Newbie: implementing lowlevel protocol over socket int32 data handling
References: <bgbaj5$kgv$2@news4.tilbu1.nb.home.nl> <3759308d.0307311008.2d931ca@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2003.07.31.20.54.03.91911@virgin.NO_SPAM.net>

On Thu, 31 Jul 2003 11:08:35 -0700, Rob Renaud wrote:

> 
> This should make it a lot easier for you.
> 
> http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/module-struct.html
> 

Wow! How incredibly useful!
I just had to say that.

Steve




From pyth at devel.trillke.net  Sat Jul 26 04:10:14 2003
From: pyth at devel.trillke.net (holger krekel)
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 10:10:14 +0200
Subject: path module
In-Reply-To: <1059184087.28095.11575.camel@lothlorien>; from ianb@colorstudy.com on Fri, Jul 25, 2003 at 08:48:07PM -0500
References: <1057651068.5348.386.camel@lothlorien> <20030708113219.H6906@prim.han.de> <mailman.1057686613.6463.python-list@python.org> <11234c14.0307211016.344d40bc@posting.google.com> <mailman.1059144006.6426.python-list@python.org> <just-8DDA38.17221725072003@news1.news.xs4all.nl> <mailman.1059151446.8466.python-list@python.org> <TxkUa.8061$Nh3.45265186@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com> <1059184087.28095.11575.camel@lothlorien>
Message-ID: <20030726101014.U6906@prim.han.de>

Hello Ian,

Ian Bicking wrote:
> ...
> I feel like a common interface for these different filesystems should
> somehow degrade well in terms of metadata, or expedite introspection in
> some fashion.

I wouldn't try to play too many tricks with meta-data.  
 
> The differences on the client side are probably easier to handle, as
> they can be handled by the constructor, which might look different for
> different filesystems.  Like url('http://whatever', user='bob',
> password='secret', proxy='http://myproxy'), or
> cvs(pserver='cvs.sourceforge.net', repository='python').  Or should
> there be a string-based representation (i.e., URIs)?

String-based representations are often not specified. e.g.
subversion/webdav/deltax don't define a URL format to get 
to a certain revision.  The other approach (keyword-args) is
a more generic and better way IMO. 

cheers,
    
    holger




From psimmo60 at hotmail.com  Tue Jul 15 13:37:44 2003
From: psimmo60 at hotmail.com (Paul Simmonds)
Date: 15 Jul 2003 10:37:44 -0700
Subject: PyErr_SetString() != raise ?
References: <bevkb3$mg8$1@solaria.cc.gatech.edu>
Message-ID: <94974e1a.0307150937.5999593f@posting.google.com>

David Eger <eger at cc.gatech.edu> wrote in message news:<bevkb3$mg8$1 at solaria.cc.gatech.edu>...
> When I use PyErr_SetString() in an extension, python just keeps on
> chugging instead of acting as though a Python exception had been
> 'raise'd.  Why is this, and do I really have to write the Python code
> to raise an exception manually after I've used PyErr_SetString()?
> 
>     if (nextEl == NULL) {
>       PyErr_SetString(PyExc_StopIteration, "Array index out of bounds");
>       return NULL;
>       }
> 
> in my iterator extension, but when I use my extension, I get an infinite loop:
<snipped>
> (and so on, and so on...)  The thing is, even though I *set* the
> exception with PyErr_SetString, to the interpreter, it doesn't get
> raised.  Am I just misinterpretting how PyErr_SetString is supposed 
> to work?
> 
> -David
Hi,

This part should work fine. Try looking back through the function
calls, layer by layer, making sure each function in turn tests for a
NULL return, and propagates it back to the interpreter. Without a
little more code it's tough to say exactly what's wrong.

The NULL return tells the interpreter that an exception has occurred.
PyErr_SetString just sets the traceback message.
 
HTH,
Paul



From borcis at users.ch  Tue Jul 15 19:02:51 2003
From: borcis at users.ch (Borcis)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 01:02:51 +0200
Subject: [OT] sentances with two meanings
References: <37d6f77c.0307130932.1e3adf0d@posting.google.com> <3f11ac74$0$49101$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl> <ad052e5c.0307131718.4903430d@posting.google.com> <3F12808B.E53193B8@hotmail.com> <87brvw3ula.fsf@pobox.com> <4701fb.8co.ln@195.171.216.1> <Xns93B99C8B951A6duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1> <bhahn-ya02408000R1507031248170001@news.corp.hp.com> <87smp7biet.fsf@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <3F14881B.5040403@users.ch>

John J. Lee wrote:

>>>To "take someone in" means to trick or deceive them.
>>
>>"take in" can also mean to observe.
> 
> But "take someone in" never means that.

Except of course that in the course of deceiving someone,
it is usual to observe that person.




From gradha at titanium.sabren.com  Sun Jul 13 06:19:23 2003
From: gradha at titanium.sabren.com (Grzegorz Adam Hankiewicz)
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 12:19:23 +0200
Subject: ANN: mailbox_date_trimmer 1.0.0 -- Correct emails' date headers in a mailbox archive.
Message-ID: <20030713101923.GA19555@pedos.es>

Scenario description
                                                                                                                                                 
   You are a mailing list administrator, or you are somebody who
   keeps mailing list archives for a user group, or you just have
   a fetish for email archives. Now, don't you always wonder why
   after running Hypermail or MHonArc on your archives you always
   have some emails which date back to 1980 or far away in the
   future like 2011, even though you started collecting emails in
   the year 2000 and it's still this very same year? While there
   are many answers to this question, there is a very easy way to
   fix many, if not all, of these messages, which results in a much
   more consistent email archive without broken discussion threads.

Software requisites
                                                                                                                                                 
   This software requires Python (http://www.python.org). It is
   known to work with versions 1.5.2 or 2.2.3. You also need my
   mailbox_reader module, which you should be able to get from:
                                                                                                                                                 
   http://gradha.sdf-eu.org/program/mailbox_reader.en.html

Download

   http://gradha.sdf-eu.org/program/mailbox_date_trimmer.en.html

License

   GPL

-- 
 Please don't send me private copies of your public answers. Thanks.




From mday at apple.com  Tue Jul 22 20:33:22 2003
From: mday at apple.com (Mark Day)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 17:33:22 -0700
Subject: lists and files question
References: <3F1DCF52.7040607@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <220720031733228802%mday@apple.com>

In article <3F1DCF52.7040607 at hotmail.com>, hokiegal99
<hokiegal99 at hotmail.com> wrote:

> This code:
> 
> import os, re, string
> setpath = raw_input("Enter the path: ")
> for root, dirs, files in os.walk(setpath):
>  id = re.compile('Microsoft Excel Worksheet')
>  fname = files
> #   print fname
>  content = open(fname[1],'rb')
> 
> Produces this error:
> 
> IOError: Error[2] No such file or directory 'Name of File'
> 
> The strange thing is that it correctly identifies the file that it says 
> doesn't exist. Could someone explain why this is?

The problem is that file doesn't exist in the current working
directory; it's in another directory (stored in "root" in your code).

Try this:
   content = open(os.path.join(root,fname[1]), 'rb')

> Also, is "files" a nested list? It looks like one, but I'm not entirely 
> sure as I'm still relatively new to Python. Thanks!

It is a list of strings.  Each string is the name of one of the files
in the directory (whose path is in "root" above).

-Mark



From tjland at iserv.net  Sun Jul 27 11:38:09 2003
From: tjland at iserv.net (tjland at iserv.net)
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 11:38:09 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Beginners help with password program!
In-Reply-To: <pan.2003.07.27.03.17.21.691808@rochester.rr.com>
References: <mailman.1059257449.31126.python-list@python.org> 
     <pan.2003.07.27.03.17.21.691808@rochester.rr.com>
Message-ID: <1057.68.73.66.240.1059320289.squirrel@webmail.iserv.net>

> For starters, I suggest you install pychecker and use it on any programs
> you create.
>
> Second, every error in python should give you some information as to what
> line it occurred on. For example:
>
> : a = b
> :Traceback (most recent call last):
> :  File "<pyshell#29>", line 1, in ?
> :    a = b
> :NameError: name 'b' is not defined
>
> Here it says line 1, because this occurred in Idle. Start by going to that
> line... 90% of the time, your error will be right there.
>
> As for your file... well the line if "login == no:" looks wrong, unless
> you have a variable named 'no'.. you probably want the string 'no' there.
> As was mentioned, you probably won't get much help if you ask people to
> debug for you. Debugging is a major part of programming, and you can't
> avoid it. So get used to it and get good at it. :D (and learn to test your
> code thoroughly).  Finally, I recommend you use raw_input(...), rather
> than input(...), and then convert the return value from a string to
> whatever you need it to be.
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


         When you see the net take the shot
         When you miss your shot shoot again
           When you make your shot you win!

                   Just remember
               Offense sells tickets
           But defense wins championships!




From jjl at pobox.com  Sun Jul  6 16:22:30 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 06 Jul 2003 21:22:30 +0100
Subject: Calculating Year, Month and Day of Life
References: <be72ph$k60$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <be74tp$pi4$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <be7a10$6b8$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <3F07420E.BC640F@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <8765mfz9q1.fsf@pobox.com>

Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> writes:
[...]
> Using mxDateTime's support for this instead will probably be easier.

or maybe the standard library module datetime from 2.3?  Haven't used
it yet.


John



From MK at foo.com  Sun Jul 20 09:07:48 2003
From: MK at foo.com (MK)
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 15:07:48 +0200
Subject: Importing WMI module into Python CGI script fails
Message-ID: <bfe49o$boan8$1@ID-174077.news.uni-berlin.de>

I'm working with IIS on W2K server. I'm trying to
use module "wmi" in a CGI script but with no success.

The following works:

    import cgitb; cgitb.enable()
    cgi.test()


... but the following isn't working:

    import cgitb; cgitb.enable()
    import wmi ## fails here, with msg "wmi undefined"
    cgi.test()


Any ideas? I can import all the other modules (e.g. sys)
except "wmi". Also, when I run the same script in IDLE
(cgi stuff removed), it works. Sys.path has all the needed
directories, including script's directory, and WMI's
directory.







From oussoren at cistron.nl  Fri Jul  4 08:03:19 2003
From: oussoren at cistron.nl (Ronald Oussoren)
Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 14:03:19 +0200
Subject: [Dream] A meta-wrapper module to interface any C dynamic library
In-Reply-To: <pan.2003.07.04.10.59.31.477048@virgilio.it>
Message-ID: <8099BFD6-AE17-11D7-B5EC-0003931CFE24@cistron.nl>

On Friday, Jul 4, 2003, at 12:59 Europe/Amsterdam, Francesco Bochicchio 
wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I was wondering if it would be possible to make a module which allows 
> to
> do something like that:
>
> 	import c_interface
> 	math_lib = c_interface.load('math.so', 'math.h' )
> 	sin_f = math_lib.get_function('sin')
> 	print "sin(3.14) = %f" % sin_f (3.14)
>
> The idea would be to make a module that allows to use any C dynamic
> library ( I used an hypothetical math.so only as example ) without
> the need of a specific wrapper module.

See http://starship.python.net/crew/theller/ctypes.

Ronald





From jar at mminternet.com  Sun Jul 27 21:37:43 2003
From: jar at mminternet.com (james roush)
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 18:37:43 -0700
Subject: mxTidy
References: <MPG.198d8c02be8f5a249896b9@news.mminternet.com> <87k7a3a3bq.fsf@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <MPG.198e1e464b06cde39896ba@news.mminternet.com>

In article <87k7a3a3bq.fsf at pobox.com>, jjl at pobox.com says...
> james roush <jar at mminternet.com> writes:
> 
> > What versions of Python will mxTidy work with.  I'm using it with Python 
> > v2.1.x but want to upgrade to 2.3 when it is released
> > 
> > Are there any alternatives to mxTidy?
> 
> uTidylib
> 
> Wrapper of the new tidylib.  Not yet clear to me if and how it's
> better, but it is more actively maintained than mxTidy.
> 
> 
> John
> 
Thanks,
-- 
-----------------------
James A Roush
jar @ mminternet.com
-----------------------



From skip at pobox.com  Fri Jul 11 08:36:20 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 07:36:20 -0500
Subject: text file edit object
In-Reply-To: <A128D751272CD411BC9200508BC2194D01885749@escpl.tcp.com.ar>
References: <A128D751272CD411BC9200508BC2194D01885749@escpl.tcp.com.ar>
Message-ID: <16142.44868.962403.270026@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    Facundo> myfile = open("foo.txt", "r")
    Facundo> mylines = myfile.readlines()[:-10]
    Facundo> myfile.writelines(mylines)
    Facundo> myfile.close()

    Facundo> I only see two problems with this:
    Facundo>    - Poor performance on very big files
    Facundo>    - Bad support on "hanging in the middle"

Not to mention the fact that you can't write to myfile as defined. ;-)  How
about something like (not tested):

    import os, sys

    try:
        infile = file("foo.txt", "r")
        lines = infile.readlines()[:-10]
        infile.close()
    except IOError:
        print >> sys.stderr, "edit failed"
    else:
        try:
            outfile = file("foo.txt.new", "w")
            outfile.writelines(lines)
            outfile.close()
        except IOError:
            try:
                os.unlink("foo.txt2")
            except IOError:
                pass
            print >> sys.stderr, "edit failed"
        else:
            os.rename("foo.txt2", "foo.txt")

?  On Windows I think you have to unlink foo.txt before calling os.rename().

Unfortunately, it quickly gets pretty baroque if you want to do things
right.  I'm not even sure IOError is the only exception that might be
raised.

Skip




From hawkfish at trustedmedianetworks.com  Wed Jul 30 13:55:37 2003
From: hawkfish at trustedmedianetworks.com (Richard Wesley)
Date: 30 Jul 2003 17:55:37 GMT
Subject: unittest problems
References: <hawkfish-F7E02E.13212328072003@tribune.sj.sys.us.xo.net> <87el095733.fsf@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <hawkfish-0A44BD.10550430072003@spectator.sj.sys.us.xo.net>

In article <87el095733.fsf at pobox.com>, jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee) 
wrote:

> Richard Wesley <hawkfish at trustedmedianetworks.com> writes:
> 
> > I am trying to retrofit some units test into our code using the unittest 
> > module.  I can get individual rewrites to work, but I am having trouble 
> > writing the "one test to run them all and in the darkness bind them" 
> > script.  There are two main sources of trouble:
> > 
> > - Test data that is stored next to the script that uses it;
> > - Several levels of scripts (top/utils/tests) with tests/data scattered 
> > at all levels;
> > 
> > Are there any good examples out there of a more complex set of tests in 
> > a multilevel tree/package with attached test data?  What about standard 
> > conventions for hooking stuff together (suite(), etc.)?
> 
> 
> <http://www.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&threadm=873ci3lk2o.fsf%40pobo
> x.com&rnum=1&prev=/groups%3Fas_q%3Dunittest%26safe%3Dimages%26ie%3DISO-8859-1%
> 26as_uauthors%3Djjl%40pobox.com%26lr%3D%26num%3D30%26hl%3Den>
> 
> http://tinyurl.com/ig2q

Thanks.

My problem turned out to be that the existing code had lots of relative 
import statements (from FileInSameDir import blah) which caused import 
to barf when called from a different level in the tree.  Not to mention 
a few missing __init__.py files.  Once I cleaned everything up, it all 
worked and the main unit_test.py will run everything.   I used your 
code, driving it with the results of os.path.walk and parameterizing the 
pattern as a list (we have two test case file name patterns, one for 
intercaps and one for _).

-- 

- rmgw

<http://www.trustedmedianetworks.com/>

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Richard Wesley                                  Trusted Media Networks, Inc.

"'And now', cried Max, 'let the wild rumpus start!'" 
    - Maurice Sendak, _Where The Wild Things Are_



From tomg at em.ca  Thu Jul 17 12:52:10 2003
From: tomg at em.ca (Tom Goulet)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 16:52:10 -0000
Subject: hex to signed integer
References: <vhbq0kr6ftvr0e@corp.supernews.com> <33803989.0307170205.6cc6ffe@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <vhdl1qcclphg0c@corp.supernews.com>

Miki Tebeka wrote:

> eval?
> e.g.:
>>>> eval("0x%s" % "FF")
> 255

| >>> eval("0x"+"B2DE7282", {}, {})
| <string>:0: FutureWarning: hex/oct constants > sys.maxint will return \
| 	positive values in Python 2.4 and up
| -1294044542

There you have it.  Using the <eval> function doesn't work on 2.4 and
using the <int> function doesn't work on 1.5.2.  Besides, I want to
avoid use of the <eval> function.

-- 
Tom Goulet, tomg at em.ca, D8BAD3BC, http://web.em.ca/~tomg/contact.html



From lists at gregfortune.com  Thu Jul 31 17:18:25 2003
From: lists at gregfortune.com (Greg Fortune)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 14:18:25 -0700
Subject: Retrieve source filename
References: <3f29207d$0$24768$626a54ce@news.free.fr> <3f2952da$0$49110$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <5zfWa.3639$Jk5.2894686@feed2.centurytel.net>

If you are working with an executable script (ie, __name__ == "__main__"), 

import sys
import os
os.path.abspath(sys.argv[0])

will give it to you.

Otherwise,

import imp
imp.find_module(__name__)[1]

will work.

It's pretty simple to detect between the two cases by simply checking
__name__.

Greg Fortune
Fortune Solutions

Irmen de Jong wrote:

> Shrom wrote:
> 
>> I know that you can retrieve main file name with sys.argv[0] and file
>> name for a module with modulename.__file__ but is there a common way to
>> retrieve file name for both main program and modules as the __FILE__
>> constant in PHP ?
> 
> I don't know if it's the "right" way, but this works:
> 
> import inspect
> print inspect.getfile(inspect.currentframe())
> 
> 
> --Irmen




From nospam at mega-nerd.com  Sun Jul 13 22:48:01 2003
From: nospam at mega-nerd.com (Erik de Castro Lopo)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 02:48:01 GMT
Subject: AIFC (Python and audio files.)
References: <bet1av$13f5q$1@swen.emba.uvm.edu>
Message-ID: <3F1219D7.829F2F43@mega-nerd.com>

Kelvin Chu wrote:
> 
> Hello, Python Wizards...
> 
> I'm trying to use Python to write an aiff file.  I've used the aifc module
> and I've set the parameters (# of channels, encoding rate, compression,
> etc.)
> 
> What does raw audio data look like?  Is each word of the raw audio data a
> frequency?  If I encode 440 for each of the frames, will I get concert A?

AIFC files contain digitally sampled sound, much like the data
stored on a CDROM.

Try looking up PCM (Pulse Code Modulation) on Google for a deeper 
explanation.

Erik
-- 
+-----------------------------------------------------------+
  Erik de Castro Lopo  nospam at mega-nerd.com (Yes it's valid)
+-----------------------------------------------------------+
The word "Windows" is a word out of an old dialect of the 
Apaches. It means: "White man staring through glass-screen 
onto an hourglass..."



From cjw at sympatico.ca  Mon Jul 28 13:45:38 2003
From: cjw at sympatico.ca (Colin J. Williams)
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 13:45:38 -0400
Subject: Interface Descriptions - was Re: Static typing
In-Reply-To: <3f219c8d$1@nntp0.pdx.net>
References: <LvdUa.905$DU.696@fe12.atl2.webusenet.com> <3f218ef1$0$27926$626a54ce@news.free.fr> <3f219c8d$1@nntp0.pdx.net>
Message-ID: <0jdVa.1266$Cx4.286824@news20.bellglobal.com>

Scott David Daniels wrote:

> Bruno Desthuilliers wrote:
> 
>> Michael Muller wrote:
>>
>>> Is there currently any plan to introduce static typing in any future
>>> version of Python?  
>>
>> Seriously, why would you do that ?
> 
> 
> You _might_ want some static typing information as program
> documentation or to enable efficient program translation.  The
> types sig was interested in allowing type annotation where
> possible.  Remember, the type you might want may be more like
> "what protocol must these objects (the ones passing through
> this variable) follow" than "what are the construction details
> of these objects".
> 
> I would like to see interface descriptions describing what
> kinds of parameters are required and results produced for
> packages that I am considering using.  If there were a single
> central-python-endorsed form for those descriptions even better.
> If the descriptions can be mechanically read, and at least
> sometimes mechincally checked (possibly slowly, possibly only
> for slow execution), I might use such a system to check a module
> before announcing it to the world.
> [and some other things]

It would be helpful to have some sort of consensus as to what form
these descriptions should take.

As suggested, it's desirable that description be both human and
machine readable.  I would suggest that priority be given to
the former.

Colin W.




From harrisonrj at ornl.gov  Wed Jul 16 23:20:06 2003
From: harrisonrj at ornl.gov (Robert Harrison)
Date: 16 Jul 2003 20:20:06 -0700
Subject: c/c++ implementation of python base and derived class
References: <521f96c7.0307151943.7d987b2@posting.google.com> <mailman.1058386586.18849.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <521f96c7.0307161920.12996635@posting.google.com>

Boost is indeed pretty powerful and cool, but I 
was trying to understand the actual implementation.

A bit more searching shows that all is revealed in 
the relevant PEP

http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0253.html



From robin at reportlab.com  Wed Jul  9 09:51:26 2003
From: robin at reportlab.com (Robin Becker)
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 14:51:26 +0100
Subject: ReportLab 1.18 Released
Message-ID: <iVZ5CWAe3BD$Ewp+@jessikat.demon.co.uk>

Version 1.18 of the ReportLab Toolkit has been released.
This release will be the last to attempt to keep compatibility with
Python 1.52 - 2.1. We will allow 2.2 specific features into the code in
future.
There will be a branch called ReportLab_1_18_PRE22. So that enthusiasts
can maintain it if required.

Main changes since ReportLab 1.18:
- Bug & leak fixes.
- improvements to pyRXP which can now be used in 16bit mode.
- Tables now can have row and column spanning.
- renderPM can now do PICT images.
- More charts and improvements to existing graphics classes.
- Valuable contributions from Ian Sparks, Karl Putland, Igor Stroh,
  Dirk Holtwick, David Fraser, Sidnei da Silva, Henning von Bargen,
  Christoph Zwerschke, Stuart Bishop, Stephen Diehl, Ury Marshak,
  Dirk Datzert, Max Neunh?ffer & others.
-- 
Robin Becker



From mikael at isy.liu.se  Wed Jul 16 02:46:12 2003
From: mikael at isy.liu.se (Mikael Olofsson)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 08:46:12 +0200
Subject: newbie question: ImportError: No module named Numeric
In-Reply-To: <20030715155428.C48367@meta.lo-res.org>
References: <20030715155428.C48367@meta.lo-res.org>
Message-ID: <20030716084612.2770d2dd.mikael@isy.liu.se>

On Tue, 15 Jul 2003 16:04:03 +0200 (CEST)
rmachne <rmachne at meta.lo-res.org> wrote:
>  I couldn't find out which path variable to change or add. Can anyone
> help?

import sys
sys.path.append('/foo/bar/bah')

/Mikael Olofsson

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This message was sent by Sylpheed.
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From tjreedy at udel.edu  Fri Jul 25 14:17:40 2003
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 14:17:40 -0400
Subject: Downloading Python files
References: <slrnbi2j1n.ra.luke@stclair.homelinux.net>
Message-ID: <Qx6cnW7W3L3Y6byiU-KYvA@comcast.com>

"Luke StClair" <luke at stclair.homelinux.net> wrote in message
news:slrnbi2j1n.ra.luke at stclair.homelinux.net...
> Only marginally belonging in this newsgroup... but oh well.
>
> I've just started writing in python, and I want to make the files
> available on the web.  So I did the standard <a
> href="mypath/myfile.py"> and not surprisingly, it displays like a
> webpage, but just the code.

What browser on what system?  As I remember, with IE6/Win98 with
python installed, even left clicking brings up 'Downloading... open or
save' box.  And there is always right click 'Download as..' option.

TJR





From mauro.baraldi at bol.com.br  Fri Jul 25 13:36:04 2003
From: mauro.baraldi at bol.com.br (Mauro Baraldi)
Date: 25 Jul 2003 10:36:04 -0700
Subject: Get data from a Tkinter Text Object
Message-ID: <daf62359.0307250936.1cf79be3@posting.google.com>

Hello World...

Someone can help me with a Tkinter doubt.

I need to get some data, from a Tkinter text objetc and write to a variable.
And, sent to a text objetc some data from a var.

Thanks for all...

[]'
Mauro



From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Jul  8 12:24:48 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 12:24:48 -0400
Subject: path module
References: <mailman.1057672334.17929.python-list@python.org> <m31xx1oxsy.fsf@tanelorn.bandersnatch.org>
Message-ID: <3F0AF050.A6D03CE1@engcorp.com>

Nick Vargish wrote:
> 
> Just van Rossum <just at xs4all.nl> writes:
> 
> > (Did I mention that / usually means divide in Python? ;-)
> 
> I believe you did... But doesn't % usually mean modulo in Python?

I believe you'll find it's more common for it to mean "format",
but the point is that it is well understood that it means *either*,
depending on context.

Using / for this new concatenation-like behaviour is tantamount
to adding new syntax to Python again...  :-(

-Peter



From bokr at oz.net  Mon Jul 14 11:51:54 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 14 Jul 2003 15:51:54 GMT
Subject: removing spaces from front and end of filenames
References: <beqdf0$m2q$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <93f5c5e9.0307130843.3e3e3daa@posting.google.com> <besu30$597$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <beujiq$i8o$0@216.39.172.122>

On 14 Jul 2003 00:38:56 GMT, bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) wrote:
[...]
>
>Why not do the whole thing in one loop? (Ignore my prev post suggestion for final
>renaming loop just for spaces):
>
>#XXX# untested !!
>import re, os
>percent2f_n_bad = re.compile(r'%2f|[*?<>/|\\]') # look for bad chars too
>for root, dirs, files in os.walk('/home/rbt/scripts'):
>     for fname in files:  
>          newfile = percent2f_n_bad.sub('-', fname)
>          newfile.strip() # and the space thing
#          ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ - does nothing useful like that ;-/
           newfile = newfile.strip() # argh, just noticed. D'oh. What else escaped? Sorry ;-/
>          if newfile != fname: # you really only need to know if something changed, right?
>              newpath = os.path.join(root,newfile)
>              oldpath = os.path.join(root,fname)
>              os.rename(oldpath,newpath)
>              print `oldpath` # backticks to get quoted repr, to see spaces
>              print `newpath`
>
>Or am I missing something?
>
Well, I did miss a least one thing ;-/

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From h.goebel at crazy-compilers.com  Mon Jul 28 06:29:50 2003
From: h.goebel at crazy-compilers.com (Hartmut Goebel)
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 12:29:50 +0200
Subject: List of all python magic numbers?
Message-ID: <3f24fb20$0$6758$9b4e6d93@newsread2.arcor-online.net>

Hello,

I'm looking for a list of all Python Magic Numbers and the related 
Python version -- starting a the last byte-code change towards 1.5. This 
should make 'decompyle' work with less problems.

I managed finding some magic numbers but sometimes I get notice of a 
magic number which is not yet in my list. So a complete list would be 
good. Any help?

Regards
+++hartmut
-- 
| Hartmut Goebel               | We build the crazy compilers |
| h.goebel at crazy-compilers.com | Compiler Manufacturer        |




From max at alcyone.com  Mon Jul 21 00:04:29 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 21:04:29 -0700
Subject: Unfortunate exception on dict item assignment (and why aren't slices 
 hashable?)
References: <mailman.1058752171.10243.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3F1B664D.2AC5A585@alcyone.com>

Jeff Epler wrote:

> I'd have expected something like 'TypeError: unslicable type'
> meaning that you can't slice a dict, not that slice()s aren't
> hashable.

Slicing is not a feature of the mapping interface; it's not entirely
clear what it should mean.  All mapping interfaces need are keys that
are hashable; it doesn't make any kind of requirements about how those
keys related to each other.  So slicing a mapping interface is something
that simply may not make any sense at all in some cases.

If you really _do_ want to take a range out of a dictionary and know
that it has some meaning, you should probably do the slicing on the
_list of keys_ (D.keys()) -- because there is no concept of an ordering
of keys in a dictionary.

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ It is much safer to obey than to rule.
\__/  Thomas a Kempis



From owski at hotmail.com  Mon Jul 14 00:03:59 2003
From: owski at hotmail.com (Adam Ruth)
Date: 13 Jul 2003 21:03:59 -0700
Subject: anything like C++ references?
References: <000301c348c7$3c501980$21795418@dell1700> <iqm2hvs77lhe1m71v9b579070khbf0uv0a@4ax.com> <berqqd$ad5$1@panix3.panix.com> <brs2hv8edfv0d1fch9mha8otuulajnkh0g@4ax.com> <bes0ps$l6$1@panix3.panix.com> <qi13hv4s21i8mtr2e600jumm54hqs7tppu@4ax.com> <mailman.1058125699.26133.python-list@python.org> <sag3hv4vf884ed7ouu5cv8ofnopp9j1t12@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <f0f51c80.0307132003.264b6894@posting.google.com>

Stephen Horne <intentionally at blank.co.uk> wrote in message news:<sag3hv4vf884ed7ouu5cv8ofnopp9j1t12 at 4ax.com>...
> On 13 Jul 2003 14:48:09 -0500, Ian Bicking <ianb at colorstudy.com>
> wrote:
> 
> >On Sun, 2003-07-13 at 12:51, Stephen Horne wrote:

> 1.  Why are the values of mutable objects always forced to be accessed
> via a pointer (or reference or whatever)?

Because *all* objects are accessed via pointer, sorta.

> Note that I am referring to a computer science, semantic
> pointer/reference/whatever - not to any pointers or references that
> may be used in the implementation of the binding of variables to
> values. The use, behind the scenes, of lazy copying as an optimisation
> is irrelevant to the computer science principles.
> 
> 2.  Why is there no way to reference an immutable object via a
> pointer, other than stuffing it into a mutable object designed for
> some purpose other than simple pointer behaviour?

They *are* referenced by pointer, sorta.  It's just that what is being
pointed to cannot be changed.  If you were using C and you had a
pointer to a variable in a region of memory that you couldn't change,
then you'd have, semantically, the equivalent.

In that case, how you do modify the value?  You don't, you only modify
the *pointer*.  If you want to change the pointer, you need to pass a
pointer to a pointer.  This is what doesn't exist in Python, and I
think it's what you're having problems with.  The same "problem"
exists in Java, but for slightly different reasons.

The Python method is completely consistent and all objects are treated
the same.  There are no *pointers* even though binding sometimes
behaves like they.  Binding doesn't always work like pointers, but it
always works like binding.

> 
> The truth is that this system is arbitrary, and that therefore this
> excuse is invalid.

The definition of what is and isn't immutable isn't arbitrary in the
sense of "Determined by chance, whim, or impulse, and not by
necessity, reason, or principle".  I'd say that the choices were made
on necessity, reason, and principle.  Just not the necessity, reason,
or principle you would have chosen.

What happens in this case?

char *myval = "my little pony";
myval[1] = 'e';

It would appear that C and C++ also have immutable types.  And in this
case the reason it's immutable bears no relation to the object or
type, but to it's location in memory, I'd say that that appears more
arbitrary.  "Some strings are immutable and some aren't" is worse than
"all strings are immutable".
 
> >The problem you have is you are still thinking of variables as slots,
> >which is not correct.  Variables in Python are bindings.  Assignment
> >never copies anything, or creates anything except for changing the
> >variable to point to a different address location.  *Every* Python
> >assignment (a=b) is like the C assignment (a=&b).  
> 
> The problem is that you are confusing implementation with semantics.
> The meanings of 'variable', 'value', 'assignment' etc are defined by
> computer science. Whether you arbitrarily change the meaning of
> 'assignment' or whether you arbitrarily change the meaning of
> 'variable', it amounts to the same thing.

I don't see the arbitrary change.  Python has one type of variable: A
pointer that cannot itself be dereferenced.  It's much more consistent
then having 3 types of variables (in C++).

> 
> >
> >> Tell me one case where it is sensible for a function to behave such
> >> that whether the caller sees a change in a variable it passed as its
> >> argument should depend on the type.

A function may see a change in a *value* not a variable.  That should
always depend on type and should depend on nothing else, a function
should always know what types it's working on.  In my C example above,
it would depend on nothing that could be discernable in the function.

If someone wrote a mutable integer class, then it would be a distinct
type from an immutable integer, and the function could work with 3
types:  immutable int, mutable int, and int.  If the function doesn't
know what it's working with, then the function writer should probably
look for another career.

> You miss my point. Your argument would equally apply to the need for
> an integer-specific division operator, for instance. Its all about how
> one function reacts in response to varying input. If you pass a
> mutable value to a function which expects an immutable one, you get an
> error. If you pass an immutable value to a function which expects a
> mutable one, you get an error. There is no good reason for a function
> to react to the distinction as evidenced by your own observation that
> what actually happens (and what should happen) is that you have two
> distinct variants of the function.

Not true.  If you pass a mutable to a function that expects an
immutable, you'll get no error.  There's nothing that can be done to
an immutable that can't be done to a mutable.  The opposite would give
an error, and should.  You wouln't call a function in C++ with an
object that has no object::doSomething() function if the function
expected it.  Whether an object is immutable or not, is no different
than knowing what methods it supports.  You wouldn't program against
an object without knowing its methods, likewise you need to know if
it's immutable.

This dicussion brings to light the fact that immutable/mutable isn't
really special in any way.  It just means that the object has no
methods to support mutability.  Just like the classic Dog class
inheriting from Animal.  Animal has no doBark() method, but Dog does. 
A function user shouldn't be surprised that a method that expects a
Dog would choke on an Animal.

> >> Tell me one case where an object storing values should care about
> >> callers mutating values it holds *only* for certain types.
> >
> >Objects don't *store* values, they *refer* to values.  You are still
> >thinking like you're in C (or C++).  This is why you are having a
> >problem.
> 
> No it is not. I'm thinking in terms of computer science, in which
> terms like 'variable', 'value' and 'assignment' are abstract concepts
> independent of the way in which they are implemented in a programming
> language.

The distinction is more to do with Dynamically version Static
languages.  You're quoting the definitions for Static languages like
they apply universally to all computer science.  They don't.  In C you
can have a variable that's an int, float, pointer, struct, etc.  In
Python you only get name (which can be read binding, or "limited"
pointer).  It's when you start forcing the semantics of value types
onto variables that you get confused.  Variable, value, and
assignement do mean different things in dynamic vs. static languages,
and that's because they're sematically different.  While they both use
the = operator to perform similar functions, they're different, and if
you expect them to be identical, you're going to be frustrated.

> One way or the other, Python is currently choosing not to respect the
> computer science definition of those terms. It may have historic and
> backward-compatability reasons, but that does not change the facts.
> This deviation from computer science definitions, whatever the excuse,
> is arbitrary, confusing and error prone. That is my problem.

It's not respecting the static language definitions of those terms,
but it shouldn't even try.  There are different meanings for those
words in mathematics, but you wouldn't try to express those
definitions in terms of C, it would be equally frustrating.  The
static definitions are merely abstractions of the mathematic meanings,
and the dynamic meanings are also abstract, but in a different
direction.

Adam Ruth



From usenet_spam at janc.invalid  Mon Jul  7 22:57:20 2003
From: usenet_spam at janc.invalid (JanC)
Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 02:57:20 GMT
Subject: A story about Python... sort of
References: <mailman.1057616412.8695.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Xns93B23268A91F2JanC@213.119.4.244>

John J Lee <jjl at pobox.com> schreef:

>> But remember "When Harley Was One" and he invented the G.O.D.?
> 
> I don't get the reference there.

It's a SF-novel from 1972 by David Gerrold, about a intelligent computer 
creating a new computer "intelligence" far superior to what any human being 
can understand.

BTW: this book was also the first time a "computer virus" was mentioned.

-- 
JanC

"Be strict when sending and tolerant when receiving."
RFC 1958 - Architectural Principles of the Internet - section 3.9



From db3l at fitlinxx.com  Wed Jul  9 18:00:53 2003
From: db3l at fitlinxx.com (David Bolen)
Date: 09 Jul 2003 18:00:53 -0400
Subject: mx odbc
References: <3f0accb5$0$13191$edfadb0f@dread15.news.tele.dk> <mailman.1057680332.32247.python-list@python.org> <3f0bce6d$0$13245$edfadb0f@dread15.news.tele.dk>
Message-ID: <un0fnz7fu.fsf@fitlinxx.com>

Kim Petersen <kp at kyborg.dk> writes:

> I'm not arguing that thats not important - *but* paying 70$
> pr. customer, is the equivalent of paying you for 1hr of support for
> each customer [not installation mind you], where our own
> licence/supportcost is already getting lower and lower... I find that
> _extremely_ steep - i could and would accept such a cost for the
> python platform (no trouble!) [except in the few (from our view) cases
> where the user just needs a small tool.

Except that if you're going to resell a product, presumably you'd go
for the per-developer fee ($1250).  It'll beat the per-CPU license at
about 18 customers (assuming one CPU per customer), and just continue
shrinking on a per-customer basis after that.  In effect, the
per-developer license is a one time, royalty free, license, the
marginal unit cost of which disappears over time.  As with anything,
the actual price is up to the owner to set, but on our part, we've
found the economics reasonable for the functionality supplied within
our commercial endeavors.

Is it the only way to go for database access with Python - certainly
not.  But for us (Windows platform with ODBC sources) its worth it for
the effort Marc-Andre has put in to best support ODBC in that
environment.

Just another data point for what it's worth.

-- David



From o_otaotao at hotmail.com  Mon Jul 28 10:06:22 2003
From: o_otaotao at hotmail.com (PythonMan)
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 22:06:22 +0800
Subject: Can't compile, miss  library/modules ............... ?
References: <bg20tu$k29gj$1@ID-142885.news.uni-berlin.de> <wue2kblq.fsf@python.net>
Message-ID: <bg3ao0$jqqoi$1@ID-142885.news.uni-berlin.de>

Thx for yr reply..

and u are right , the exe is produced and can be run , but it operate in
wrong way , eg. Suddenly Terminate when Checking exist file~~~~

what 's wrong ? @.@

--





"Thomas Heller" <theller at python.net> ???g???l???s?D
:wue2kblq.fsf at python.net...
> "PythonMan" <o_otaotao at hotmail.com> writes:
>
> > warning: py2exe: * The following modules were not found:
> > warning: py2exe: *   SOCKS
> > warning: py2exe: *   rourl2path
> > warning: py2exe: *   ic
> >
> > when i compile btdownloadheadless.py of BitTorrent , justmsg is shown ,
the
> > souce code should have no error , but why i get such error ? how get
back
> > this modules ? thx~~~
>
> It's a warning, and the exe should work.





From richie at entrian.com  Wed Jul 30 05:01:53 2003
From: richie at entrian.com (Richie Hindle)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 10:01:53 +0100
Subject: Seeing next character in an file
In-Reply-To: <bg66qp$6sj$0@216.39.172.122>
References: <CDFUa.42241$wk4.27296@twister.nyroc.rr.com> <pan.2003.07.27.03.01.52.505599@rochester.rr.com> <bg12ih$70l$0@216.39.172.122> <mailman.1059393521.4012.python-list@python.org> <bg3kol$69u$0@216.39.172.122> <mailman.1059466192.27225.python-list@python.org> <bg66qp$6sj$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <fe1fivk841eklv8l5sfmo4h3os1dg66vfa@4ax.com>

[Bengt]
> BTW, is there an ANSI C spec available free on line
> (or an older, close-enough draft)?

Not a complete one that I'm aware of, no, although some pieces exist at
and around http://www.cs.vsb.cz/grygarek/tuox/sources/lib/ansi/Draft_g.txt

I eventually found the seek/tell rule in a book errata at
http://herd.plethora.net/~seebs/c/c_tcr.html then confirmed the standard
and section numbers with the "Normative Changes to ISO/IEC 9899:1990"
document at http://www.lysator.liu.se/c/tc1.html

I can't remember exactly what I googled for to find those documents (and
the query has already fallen off the end of my Google Toolbar's search
history - I think I use Google too much!  8-)

-- 
Richie Hindle
richie at entrian.com





From shagshag13 at yahooPLUSDESPAM.fr  Sat Jul  5 04:32:19 2003
From: shagshag13 at yahooPLUSDESPAM.fr (shagshag13)
Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2003 10:32:19 +0200
Subject: debian etc/python2.2/site.py lost ?
Message-ID: <3f068c06$0$29650$626a54ce@news.free.fr>

hello,

i accidentally delete etc/python2.2/site.py on my debian system could some
one help me to recreate this file as i didn't know what it contains ?

thanks,





From jbar at lf1.cuni.cz  Fri Jul 11 12:03:20 2003
From: jbar at lf1.cuni.cz (Jiri Barton)
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 18:03:20 +0200
Subject: Securing 'pickle'
References: <pan.2003.07.11.01.20.47.998070@127.0.0.1> <slrnbgs4hc.hop.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local> <7x1xwxu98y.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <3F0E1875.574DC6D7@alcyone.com> <mailman.1057892296.5329.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3f0edfcb@shknews01>

I store cookies on the server in MySQL database. Here's the schema of the
table:

CREATE TABLE `cookies` (
  `id` int(10) unsigned NOT NULL auto_increment,
  `time` timestamp(14) NOT NULL,
  `ip` varchar(20) NOT NULL default '',
  `data` blob NOT NULL,
  PRIMARY KEY  (`id`)
) TYPE=MyISAM;

id - sessionID
time - using for session timeout
ip - the remote IP address 
data - pickled data, urllib.quote'd, because of the control chars

Disposing cookies:
 - when the session times out
 - after a number of requests (say 1000), approximately, I scan the table
for outdated cookies and delete them -- 
    if random.randrange (1000) == 0: #scan & remove cookies






From stuart_clemons at us.ibm.com  Sat Jul 12 15:46:51 2003
From: stuart_clemons at us.ibm.com (stuartc)
Date: 12 Jul 2003 12:46:51 -0700
Subject: Newbie with sort text file question
Message-ID: <86d2ca4.0307121146.3deb854a@posting.google.com>

Hi:

I'm not a total newbie, but I'm pretty green.  I need to sort a text
file and then get a total for the number of occurances for a part of
the string. Hopefully, this will explain it better:

Here's the text file: 

banana_c \\yellow
apple_a \\green
orange_b \\yellow
banana_d \\green
orange_a \\orange
apple_w \\yellow
banana_e \\green
orange_x \\yellow
orange_y \\orange

I would like two output files:

1) Sorted like this, by the fruit name (the name before the dash)

apple_a \\green
apple_w \\yellow
banana_c \\yellow
banana_d \\green
banana_e \\green
orange_a \\orange
orange_b \\yellow
orange_x \\yellow
orange_y \\orange

2) Then summarized like this, ordered with the highest occurances
first:

orange occurs 4
banana occurs 3
apple occurs 2

Total occurances is 9

Thanks for any help !



From djc at object-craft.com.au  Mon Jul 14 19:39:07 2003
From: djc at object-craft.com.au (Dave Cole)
Date: 15 Jul 2003 09:39:07 +1000
Subject: Can't install csv parser
References: <MPG.197b80c54e88b1489896a6@news.in.comcast.giganews.com> <3f11ba56$0$6532$afc38c87@sisyphus.news.be.easynet.net> <m3r84tivkn.fsf@ferret.object-craft.com.au> <MPG.197c88885d4542c09896a8@news.in.comcast.giganews.com>
Message-ID: <m3u19osmp0.fsf@ferret.object-craft.com.au>

>>>>> "BogAl" == BogAl  <bogal2 at comcast.net> writes:

BogAl> Thanks for the reply, Dave....

>> Try putting the .pyd in C:\Python22\Lib\site-packages

BogAl> Unfortunately, I'm still getting the error message.

Does it work if you put the csv.pyd file in the current directory?

- Dave

-- 
http://www.object-craft.com.au



From bokr at oz.net  Sun Jul 27 13:10:55 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 27 Jul 2003 17:10:55 GMT
Subject: looping through a file
References: <3eaf6668$0$1030$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au> <bfs0ec$eq9$1@news.iucc.ac.il> <3f21903c$0$27898$626a54ce@news.free.fr> <mailman.1059251920.7295.python-list@python.org> <87llukrdow.fsf@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <bg112v$3i1$0@216.39.172.122>

On 27 Jul 2003 01:55:11 +0100, jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee) wrote:

>Heiko Wundram <heikowu at ceosg.de> writes:
>
>> On Fri, 2003-07-25 at 22:24, Bruno Desthuilliers wrote:
>> > for line in thefile.readlines():
>> >      doWhatEverWithTheLine()
>> 
>> Or, if you're on a sufficiently new Python:
>> 
>> for line in thefile:
>> 	doWhateverWithTheLine()
>
>I recall that in an old Python you could get into an awful mess (as I
>did) with this by having several 'for line in file' blocks in a row:
>
>for line in f:
>    if not line.startswith("magic"): continue  # skip header
>
>for line in f:
>    ...process data...
>
What mess was that? (unless you meant to re-open the file to read from the beginning)

>I gathered from a recent thread that this has changed -- the file is
>its own iterator now.  Was the old behaviour ever released in 2.2, or
>was it just part of a 2.3 beta?
>
Curious what was changed ...

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From ta-meyer at ihug.co.nz  Mon Jul  7 00:58:59 2003
From: ta-meyer at ihug.co.nz (Tony Meyer)
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 16:58:59 +1200
Subject: A story about Python... sort of
In-Reply-To: <1ED4ECF91CDED24C8D012BCF2B034F1302394595@its-xchg4.massey.ac.nz>
Message-ID: <1ED4ECF91CDED24C8D012BCF2B034F130212AAB8@its-xchg4.massey.ac.nz>

> A chess program 
> is different from a 3D game in that with a 3D game, you can 
> stop at some point and say, "ok, this is fast enough." There 
> is little point in making the game run at 1000 frames per 
> second if no human eye can see more than 60 (or whatever the 
> number is).

This isn't really true.  Sure you can say that the framerate is fast enough,
but when do you stop and say "the graphics look real enough"?  (I'm sure
there is a point, but it's a distant point, like 'solving' chess).

=Tony Meyer





From paul at boddie.net  Wed Jul 16 04:08:06 2003
From: paul at boddie.net (Paul Boddie)
Date: 16 Jul 2003 01:08:06 -0700
Subject: Foreign characters
References: <f42f0868.0307151831.7e8944b0@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <23891c90.0307160008.6e1eb71c@posting.google.com>

tsurusennin at softhome.net (Tetsuo) wrote in message news:<f42f0868.0307151831.7e8944b0 at posting.google.com>...
> How do I get Python to work with foreign characters? When I try to
> print them, I get a unicode error (characters not ASCII). Wasn't
> unicode invented for the express purpose of working with non-ASCII
> characters?

Erm, yes. But the problem you're having is undoubtedly occurring when
you try to send the Unicode data to your console or terminal. I'd
recommend using the encode method on your Unicode objects as described
in the thread "Characters in Python" - use groups.google.com to find
that discussion.

On the other hand, if you're using IDLE, I'd suggest trying out
IDLEfork if you really want to be able to send Unicode data straight
to the output window. IDLE in Python 2.2.x and below seems to have had
various issues with Unicode and output, but that's discussed in that
thread I mentioned.

I note that the content of the most relevant entry in the Python FAQ
can be regarded as being somewhat confusing:

http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw.py?req=show&file=faq04.102.htp

Notably this statement (in the context of the classic UnicodeError):

"This error indicates that your Python installation can handle only
7-bit ASCII strings."

I doubt that even if one makes the distinction between strings and
Unicode objects, as I often do myself, that Python has ever been
unable to handle 8-bit strings. Moreover, the statement gives the
impression that various Python installations exist which know about
Unicode (and related encodings) but can't deal with it. Perhaps the
entry ought to be updated with some of the tips given in previous
threads, and that more questions and answers need adding to the FAQ
(which I'm happy to do, by the way, if it's seen as being worthwhile).

Paul



From tim.one at comcast.net  Mon Jul 14 19:55:38 2003
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 19:55:38 -0400
Subject: anything like C++ references?
In-Reply-To: <7dc4hvslh7a8fk9p6cvsfqa1c8d44rmmnv@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCMEGPEOAB.tim.one@comcast.net>

[Stephen Horne]
> ...
> C++ references are tellingly also called self-dereferencing pointers.
> They are not a distinct concept - they are syntactic sugar. I suspect
> they mainly arise out of the modern desire to disguise pointers and
> fantasize that they're not there, though they certainly work very well
> in certain contexts.

You don't have to guess -- Stroustrup's "The Design and Evolution of C++"
explains his design rationales in detail.  Section 3.7 is devoted to C++
references.  The short course is that references were thought necessary to
support usable operator overloading; see the book for concrete examples; a
later "What Could and Should Have Been Different?" section explains why C++
references are a wart, but a pragmatically desirable wart.

About "modern desire", the earliest computer languages didn't expose
pointers at all (Lisp, COBOL, and Fortran are the prime early examples of
this).  Language exposure of machine addresses came in with lower-level
systems-programming languages (of which C is the prime example today).





From candiazoo at mac.com  Sun Jul 13 23:08:01 2003
From: candiazoo at mac.com (Michael S. Jessop)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 03:08:01 GMT
Subject: new in town
References: <AeVPa.445271$Vi5.11496890@news1.calgary.shaw.ca> <2a897f11.0307121139.21470fbb@posting.google.com> <EM_Pa.420940$ro6.10135135@news2.calgary.shaw.ca> <pan.2003.07.13.03.22.29.943248@127.0.0.1> <pan.2003.07.13.03.27.44.711790@127.0.0.1> <bz6Qa.420654$3C2.11454989@news3.calgary.shaw.ca>
Message-ID: <130720032307414660%candiazoo@mac.com>

Good luck, Elaine!  Fwiw, I have been using wxWindows/wxPython and have
found it fairly easy to pick up - and I ain't the brightest bulb, if
you know what I mean.   :)

And what David said about Python becoming the one and only language you
ever want to use is true.   :)

Mike J.

In article <bz6Qa.420654$3C2.11454989 at news3.calgary.shaw.ca>, Elaine
Jackson <elainejackson7355 at home.com> wrote:

> David McNab <postmaster at 127.0.0.1> wrote in message
> news:pan.2003.07.13.03.27.44.711790 at 127.0.0.1...
> <snip>
> | Don't be intimidated if the Tkinter docs you come across urge you to
> | approach it from a Tk viewpoint- there's an excellent guide at:
> | http://www.astro.washington.edu/owen/TkinterSummary.html
> <snip>
> | David
> 
> 
> Thanks for the tip.
> 
>



From tim.one at comcast.net  Wed Jul  9 16:17:36 2003
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 16:17:36 -0400
Subject: Guido.moves_to(California) ?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0307092346440.30588-100000@rnd.onego.ru>
Message-ID: <BIEJKCLHCIOIHAGOKOLHIELHGDAA.tim.one@comcast.net>

[Roman Suzi]
> Reading PythonDev I've just found this
>
> [Guido announced he has a new job]
>
> I was not very surprised to hear that, but I wonder if it means new
> licenses coming:

No, the Python Software Foundation holds current Python copyrights, and
current Python is distributed under the PSF license.  By design, the PSF is
a corporation independent of Guido's employer du jour.  His new employer
may, or may not, become a PSF member; if they do, they get one vote on PSF
member matters, same as any other PSF member; if they don't, they get no
vote on PSF member matters.  Python's license is a PSF matter (although,
strictly speaking, the license isn't up for a vote of PSF members, it's set
by the PSF's Board of Directors).





From jkpangtang at yahoo.com  Tue Jul 22 20:46:38 2003
From: jkpangtang at yahoo.com (JW)
Date: 22 Jul 2003 17:46:38 -0700
Subject: 'int' object is not callable
Message-ID: <3607e8e4.0307221646.7d24707@posting.google.com>

Hi,

Suppose I have the following python method:

def foo(aTuple):
	print len(aTuple)  #line 1
	print aTuple[0]    # line 2
	return 0



Then, suppose I call that python method from within a C function
using:  PyObject_CallObject(pFunc, pArgTuple);


I get the following error at line 1:
	'int' object is not callable

If i remove line 1, then my foo() method does print out correct value for aTuple[0].

Why am I getting this error when i try using python len() built-in function?

Thanks



From bokr at oz.net  Wed Jul 16 13:20:52 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 16 Jul 2003 17:20:52 GMT
Subject: String Manipulation
References: <2c6431ab.0307151223.4173c4ee@posting.google.com> <45f7ff62.0307151851.f59129f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bf41hk$ufo$0@216.39.172.122>

On 15 Jul 2003 19:51:56 -0700, ee01b092 at ee.iitm.ernet.in (Vinoo Vasudevan) wrote:

>lamar_air at hotmail.com (lamar_air) wrote in message news:<2c6431ab.0307151223.4173c4ee at posting.google.com>...
>> I need a piece of code that takes a string like this string1 =
>> "aaa/bbb/ccc/dd" and extracts a string containting the character after
>> the last "/"
>> 
>> So for this example the result would be "dd"
>> 
>> like this:
>> for i=0; string1.right(i) != '/'; i++
>> 
>> result = string1.mid(i, string1.length())
>> 
>> but in python.
>
>How about this: 
>string1 = 'aaa/bbb/ccc/dd'
>result = string1[string1.rfind('/')+1:]
>
>Hope it's helpful,
Sorry Vinoo, for some reason your post did not show up for me before I posted
the same solution, even though your post is dated much before mine.
I guess it has to do with delays in news servers forwarding and such.

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From m.stenzel at allanime.de  Mon Jul  7 10:42:46 2003
From: m.stenzel at allanime.de (Markus Stenzel)
Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 16:42:46 +0200
Subject: Reverse Engineering of Windows Distribution
In-Reply-To: <3F098251.426DB151@engcorp.com>
References: <bebuo8$h80$07$1@news.t-online.com> <3F098251.426DB151@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <bec0t7$4mj$04$1@news.t-online.com>

Product : Experimental BitTorrent Client (c)Bram Cohen
Modified: Eike Frost http://ei.kefro.st/projects/btclient/
License : MIT
Source  : Available (3.1-CVS-4, 3.2-1, 3.2.1b-1, 3.2.1b-2)

The Experimental BitTorrent is a GUI upgrade of the well known 
BitTorrent file swarming application (c)Bram Cohen and released under 
the MIT license.

Eike Frost modified the software to allow "bandwidth capping" to be 
selected from the GUI to allow ACK messages to pass the upstream during 
normal operation thus increasing overall efficiency.

However all versions mentioned above in the line starting with "Source" 
_DO NOT_ run on Linux. 3.1-CVS-3, 3.2-1 and 3.2.1b-1 produce error 
messages due to a few bugs handling the command line parameters.

The 3.2.1b-2 client DOES work on Linux but is running slowly and works 
for single files only. When working with "batch torrents" it routinely 
hangs during operation (even if it's not touched after it's launch)

The author Eike Frost doesn't offer the pre-3.1-CVS-3 source.

The windows version we have installed on Win32 is a pre 3-1-CVS-4 
version. Now guess what.. ;))

 > Technically it is possible, but it's not trivial, and seems like
 > a pretty bizarre thing to do if the author didn't intend it to
 > be used on Linux in the first place.  (Which we can infer from the
 > choice of distribution method.)

I hope the additional background info might make you giving a few little 
hints? *hopes*

   Markus

Peter Hansen wrote:
> Markus Stenzel wrote:
> 
>>I have a Python software for Windows, packed into a single exe file and
>>accompanied with a few dll and package files.
>>
>>Is there any way to reverse engineer this packet by extracting the
>>source files so they can be used on Linux/Unix? I have checked the exe
>>but it seems to be compressed by zlib.
>>
>>Some people on the mailing lists told my friend it's possible to get the
>>code once you can "unpack" the files from the exe.
> 
> 
> It seems likely that the source to this program would be available
> to you already, wouldn't it?  It *is* open source, right?
> 
> If it is, you can probably find the source on the web, or just
> contact the author for it.
> 
> If it is not, you are probably violating your license agreement in
> trying to do this.  Did it come with a license?
> 
> Technically it is possible, but it's not trivial, and seems like
> a pretty bizarre thing to do if the author didn't intend it to
> be used on Linux in the first place.  (Which we can infer from the
> choice of distribution method.)
> 
> -Peter




From 2002 at weholt.org  Sat Jul 12 16:10:42 2003
From: 2002 at weholt.org (Thomas Weholt)
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 22:10:42 +0200
Subject: Any pure-python relational databases?
References: <pan.2003.07.12.14.11.19.428895@127.0.0.1> <2a897f11.0307121143.4a37113b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <8XZPa.12712$Hb.219315@news4.e.nsc.no>

"Wayne Pierce" <wayne at mishre.com> wrote in message
news:2a897f11.0307121143.4a37113b at posting.google.com...
> David McNab <postmaster at 127.0.0.1> wrote in message
news:<pan.2003.07.12.14.11.19.428895 at 127.0.0.1>...
>
> [sniped]
>
> > 1) Any pure-python interface to MySQL? or
>
> If you cannot get the MySQL specific interface working, have you tried
> a generic database interface?
>
> http://www.python.org/topics/database/DatabaseAPI-2.0.html
>
> > 2) Any kind of relational DBMS written in pure python that'll run on
> > 1.5.2?
>
> While not relational, have you looked at Metakit?
>
> http://www.equi4.com/metakit/python.html

Relational *and* simple install with good Python module; SQLite =>
http://www.sqlite.org/

Thomas





From maciej at maciejsobczak.com  Tue Jul  8 03:36:19 2003
From: maciej at maciejsobczak.com (Maciej Sobczak)
Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 09:36:19 +0200
Subject: ANN: YAMI 2.1 lib for distributed programming available
Message-ID: <bedscn$f6s$3@nemesis.news.tpi.pl>

Hi,

I would like to announce that the next version of YAMI library is 
available for download.

http://www.maciejsobczak.com/prog/yami/

The download page is:

http://www.maciejsobczak.com/prog/yami/impl/

YAMI is an Open Source project providing lightweight and portable 
infrastructure for message-oriented network communication. It supports 
C, C++, Python and Tcl on various platforms.

-- 
Maciej Sobczak
http://www.maciejsobczak.com/




From bokr at oz.net  Thu Jul 31 01:35:37 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 31 Jul 2003 05:35:37 GMT
Subject: Upgrading python
References: <ItycnZqbMc9St7qiXTWc-w@speakeasy.net> <m33cgohbf9.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <bg93pm$72v$0@216.39.172.122> <vig8hj4a05pbfa@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <bga9r9$fp8$0@216.39.172.122>

On Wed, 30 Jul 2003 15:52:59 -0400, "John Roth" <newsgroups at jhrothjr.com> wrote:

>
>"Bengt Richter" <bokr at oz.net> wrote in message
>news:bg93pm$72v$0 at 216.39.172.122...
>> On 30 Jul 2003 06:43:22 +0200, martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v.
>=?iso-8859-15?q?L=F6wis?=) wrote:
>>
>> >Stephen Boulet <stephen at theboulets.net> writes:
>> >
>> >> When I upgrade from 2.2.3 to 2.3 on windows, do I first uninstall
>2.2.3?
>> >
>> >If you want to, you can have both 2.2 and 2.3 installed, side-by-side.
>> >If you want to replace 2.2, you should uninstall it first.
>> >
>> How do I know what will happen to file extension associations and the

 [19:00] C:\pywk\clp>assoc |findstr/i py
 .py=Pythonfile
 .py = Pythonfile
 .pyc=
 .pyo=

 [19:00] C:\pywk\clp>ftype |findstr/i py
 Pythonfile=d:\python22\python.exe "%1" %*
 Pythonfile = d:\python22\python.exe "%*"

Hm, I wonder if I did those with the extra spaces ;-/
Anyway, presumably at least one set of those will be replaced with python23 versions.

Does python itself depend anywhere on these associations? I hope not.

Also, shouldn't this be somewhere down the profile tree, so different users can 
have .html bring up their different browsers, etc.? I.e., this is really just configuring
the operation of a users's shell, it's not like NTFS vs FAT32 on a disk partition.
But that's not Python's fault.

>system path search
>> that takes unadorned python and finds some/path/to/python23.exe?
>>
>> And how does the old python22 find what it needs? Do I need to go through
>a .cmd file that
>> sets up its environment before running? How do I know everything it needs?
>>
Does the installation automatically modify the PATH (and PATHEXT??) environment
settings? For everyone, or the installing user?

>> IOW, how do you set up a clean way to run both 2.2.3 and 2.3 "side by
>side" but separately,
>> with default "python" going to 2.3?  I am being lazy in not reading the
>install docs yet,
>> but does it cover the question fully? If so, the answer to this post can
>just be "yes" ;-)
>

>As with most things having to do with installation, the answer is a bit
>complicated. On Windows, Python keeps its information in separate
>keys by major release, so there's a different key for Python 2.2 and Python
>2.3. That's compiled into the executable, so anything that's in the registry
>is kept nice and separate. So you can have two or more major releases
>side by side. You can't have two minor releases, though, because they
>use the same registry key.
>
>The keys aren't secret, so any outboard programs that need a specific
>version of Python can go right to it. Where the difficulty lies is that
>other things, such as the system path for finding executables and the
>file name associations don't have the same facility. So if I wanted to
>just be able to doubleclick on a .py or .pyc file and have it find the
>correct executable, I'm out of luck unless I do some arcane system
>programming. (That is, associate them with a program that figures
>out from the directories or the "magic number" which version of
>python is wanted, and then invokes it.)
>
I understand. But when you *do* install, does the installation unconditionally
set associations and path to the new installation?

>If all you want is for the default to be 2.3, then just make certain
>that the system path goes to the proper directory. All your
>file name associations will tag along as long as the command
>keys didn't include full paths.
Do I have to "make certain ..." by doing it manually, or just verifying if
I'm worried?

>
>And I find that .cmd files are my friends. I use them to set the
>Pythonpath so I don't have to figure out a path that's going to
>work for everything, now and forever. And they work very
>well for drag and drop targets for those little utilities that operate
>on one file...
>
Yes, I use them a lot too, especially since i/o redirection doesn't work
properly on NT4 without explicit invocation of python to run a python program.

Well, under HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE for python I grep out

Key Name:          SOFTWARE\Python
Key Name:          SOFTWARE\Python\PythonCore
Key Name:          SOFTWARE\Python\PythonCore\2.2
Key Name:          SOFTWARE\Python\PythonCore\2.2\Help
Key Name:          SOFTWARE\Python\PythonCore\2.2\Help\Main Python Documentation
  Data:            D:\Python22\Doc\index.html
Key Name:          SOFTWARE\Python\PythonCore\2.2\InstallPath
  Data:            D:\Python22
Key Name:          SOFTWARE\Python\PythonCore\2.2\InstallPath\InstallGroup
  Data:            Python 2.2
Key Name:          SOFTWARE\Python\PythonCore\2.2\Modules
  Data:
Key Name:          SOFTWARE\Python\PythonCore\2.2\PythonPath
  Data:            D:\Python22\Lib;D:\Python22\DLLs;D:\Python22\Lib\lib-tk

Which I take it influences the following

 [17:52] C:\pywk\clp>python
 Python 2.2.2 (#37, Oct 14 2002, 17:02:34) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
 Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
 >>> import os
 >>> print os.environ['PYTHONPATH']
 c:\pywk

 >>> import sys
 >>> for p in sys.path: print p
 ...

 c:\pywk
 C:\pywk\clp
 D:\python22\DLLs
 D:\python22\lib
 D:\python22\lib\lib-tk
 D:\python22
 D:\python22\lib\site-packages
 D:\python22\lib\site-packages\PIL
 

apparently the first two entries are from os.environ['PYTHONPATH'] and the working directory
that python was started in. The rest look like they're from the registry.

I can see the pattern to expect for python23 etc.

Is it possible to create a version 2.3a that would fit into this and go under a

     Key Name:          SOFTWARE\Python\PythonCore\2.3a

subtree in the registry. I mean with a single version id change someplace in the build,
not manual heroics.

Also, is there a way to have debug branches on these trees, or do you have to keep a whole
separate thing even if most is duplicated, or do you just put some debug things into
a regular tree and rely on backups to restore (as I have done with a couple experiments)

Any gotchas?

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From bhv1 at psu.edu  Tue Jul 29 23:05:00 2003
From: bhv1 at psu.edu (Brian Victor)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 03:05:00 GMT
Subject: curses and use_default_colors()
References: <slrnbidnj4.koh.bhv1@pa-steclge-u3-c3b-133.stcgpa.adelphia.net> <7652139e.0307291843.2ade58c6@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <slrnbied9m.lt5.bhv1@pa-steclge-u3-c3b-133.stcgpa.adelphia.net>

Chris Reay wrote:
> Brian Victor <bhv1 at psu.edu> wrote in message
> news:<slrnbidnj4.koh.bhv1 at pa-steclge-u3-c3b-133.stcgpa.adelphia.net>...
>> I am attempting to write a curses-based program.  I would like to use
>> the default terminal background rather than a black one (a significant
>> difference with transluscent terminals, regardless of one's opinion of
>> them).
> I don't know how much this'll help, but my home-brewed curses TextApp
> class has a white-on-blue default, and TextApp.startWin() contains
> these lines (inter alia) ...
[snip]

Thanks, but that's not quite what I'm looking for.  Getting a solid
background isn't a problem.  Getting a subtly textured background to
show through (or other windows on Mac) seems to be a bit tricker.

Still hoping someone will hop in with "just use this curses extension"
or "you can write a wrapper around that one function and integrate it
with python's curses like this."  But thanks for the input, anyway!

-- 
Brian



From danb_83 at yahoo.com  Sun Jul 20 11:31:41 2003
From: danb_83 at yahoo.com (Dan Bishop)
Date: 20 Jul 2003 08:31:41 -0700
Subject: object as a reserved keyword
References: <vtnkhvoqcet2bgmeidae1st46m7q9sr1p3@4ax.com> <7dokhvgv12fdbha8sun6c6q658cth5uq2c@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <ad052e5c.0307200731.5b573c77@posting.google.com>

Lawrence Oluyede <raims at dot.com> wrote in message news:<7dokhvgv12fdbha8sun6c6q658cth5uq2c at 4ax.com>...
> On Sun, 20 Jul 2003 11:29:03 +0200, Lawrence Oluyede <raims at dot.com>
> wrote:
> 
> >I'd like to avoid oddities like this:
> 
> I just noticed that it's the same thing with other builtin types such
> as list, dict and so on... Hope anyone ex[pl]ain me the reason to that.
> Maybe is beyond my views...

I understand his problem.

When I write in other languages and need a meaningless variable name,
I tend to use an abbreviation for the variable's type.

   public void foo(String str) {/* ... */}
   public void foo(List list) {/* ... */}

As you can see, this convention doesn't carry over very well to
Python.



From kp at kyborg.dk  Thu Jul 10 19:15:55 2003
From: kp at kyborg.dk (Kim Petersen)
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 01:15:55 +0200
Subject: Memory leak ??
In-Reply-To: <Nc6dnUzcbfn25pCiRTvUqw@speakeasy.net>
References: <3f0d5d3f$0$13154$edfadb0f@dread15.news.tele.dk> <Nc6dnUzcbfn25pCiRTvUqw@speakeasy.net>
Message-ID: <3f0df3ac$0$13186$edfadb0f@dread15.news.tele.dk>

A.M. Kuchling wrote:
> On Thu, 10 Jul 2003 14:34:05 +0200, 
> 	Kim Petersen <kp at kyborg.dk> wrote:
> 
>>Using python-2.2.2-26 on RH9 (shrike) x86 -fully patched
>>
>>The following program slowly eats up more and more memory when run on
>>large datasets... can anyone tell what the trouble is?
> 
> 
> Your code uses eval(), which is pretty heavyweight because it has to
> tokenize, parse, and then evaluate the string.

I know - but speed is not an issue in this (at least not for the moment).

> There have been a few memory
> leaks in eval(), and perhaps you're running into one of them.  Try using
> int() or float() to convert strings to numbers instead of eval.  As a bonus,
> your program will be faster and much more secure (could an attacker tweak 
> your logfiles so you end up eval()ing os.unlink('/etc/passwd')?).

Not likely - this file is error-output from a database population 
program - and the thing being eval'led is actually the python tuple that 
made the error occur - what my program essentially should do - is take 
that output - analyze it - fix the errors - and then put it into the 
database.

But thanks, for the tip - i'll try and wrap up a parser for this instead 
then. (personally i had my suspecion on the generator - but thats prolly 
because i'm still thinking 1.5.2 ;-))
> 
> In general, using eval() is almost always a mistake; few programs need to 
> take arbitrary expressions as input.

I agree completely - i've personally used eval something like 3 times 
totally in the time i've programmed python (5 years or so) - and in all 
cases it has been places where the input were secure.

> 
> --amk




From ianb at colorstudy.com  Sun Jul 13 16:05:38 2003
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: 13 Jul 2003 15:05:38 -0500
Subject: anything like C++ references?
In-Reply-To: <b8c3hvsesjoumiboobml3nsnajtha99mp1@4ax.com>
References: <13t0hvsb7idh0g6ac3upe5k0qd6flc17ah@4ax.com>
	 <pan.2003.07.13.10.58.11.376531@127.0.0.1>
	 <lq-cnWRG9rRuMIyiXTWJjQ@comcast.com>
	 <b8c3hvsesjoumiboobml3nsnajtha99mp1@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <1058126738.28456.424.camel@lothlorien>

On Sun, 2003-07-13 at 14:39, Stephen Horne wrote:
> The fact is that 'assignment' has a common meaning separate from the
> choice of programming language, 

This just isn't true.  The C++ assignment operator is not at all like
the Python assignment statement.  Python variables are not like C++
variables, no surprise assignment is different too.  If you used
languages outside of C++ and its like (e.g., Pascal), you would find
Python's behavior common.

(Admittedly, some confusion may occur because these very different
operations use the same syntax:

  x = 10
  x[0] = 10
  obj.x = 10

The second and third are entirely different from the first.)

  Ian






From duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk  Mon Jul  7 09:26:50 2003
From: duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk (Duncan Booth)
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 13:26:50 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: NNTP mirror of c.l.p?
References: <2a897f11.0307070510.37a4ad41@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <Xns93B19276DDE06duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

wayne at mishre.com (Wayne Pierce) wrote in 
news:2a897f11.0307070510.37a4ad41 at posting.google.com:

> Does anyone know if there is a public server where I can download
> c.l.p?  I typically use GG, but want to test a program on my
> Palm-based system for accessing NNTP servers.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> -Wayne
> 

Try news.freenet.de for public readonly access.

-- 
Duncan Booth                                             duncan at rcp.co.uk
int month(char *p){return(124864/((p[0]+p[1]-p[2]&0x1f)+1)%12)["\5\x8\3"
"\6\7\xb\1\x9\xa\2\0\4"];} // Who said my code was obscure?



From bokr at oz.net  Fri Jul 11 21:58:13 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 12 Jul 2003 01:58:13 GMT
Subject: Python - if/else statements
References: <pan.2003.07.11.19.34.16.330762@yahoo.com> <ben6uf$tcr$0@216.39.172.122> <pan.2003.07.11.23.16.08.781512@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <benpvl$9kj$0@216.39.172.122>

On Sat, 12 Jul 2003 11:16:12 +1200, dmbkiwi <dmbkiwi at yahoo.com> wrote:

>On Fri, 11 Jul 2003 20:33:19 +0000, Bengt Richter wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 12 Jul 2003 07:34:18 +1200, dmbkiwi <dmbkiwi at yahoo.com> wrote:
>> 
>
><snip>
>Thanks for helping me with this.
>
>
>>>def meterClicked(widget, meter, button):
>>>	#print "meterclick"
>>>	global dayshow, daypicrem, ddon, ddcon, buttonpressed
>> # these globals -- where do they come from? What module? # Note that each
>> module has its own globals, so is are there different modules # that think
>> they're sharing globals but really aren't? There are ways to solve that, #
>> but first, is that relevant?
>
>They don't come from a module, they come from different functions within
>the script.  To be honest, I don't think I've ever quite understood
>globals, so I insert them where I think they should go - probably quite
>incorrecly.  Will this matter?
It could. It depends. A script or a file (extension may vary, .py, .pyc, etc) that's imported
is like a big room with a single cork bulletin board. Think of that bulletin board as
the script's or module's global name space. It's where name tags can be tacked up with names
associated with objects. You can think of the objects themselves as balloons attached to
the name tags by strings (the houses have no roofs, so all the balloons occupy space
someplace high up outside ;-)

Note that according to this model, when you assign x=y what you
are doing is finding the y-labled tag and following its string to the associated object-balloon
and tying a new string to that same balloon, and then attaching that new string to a
new tag labeled x and tacking this new tag on an appropriate bulletin board, resulting in
two tags and their strings leading to the same object-balloon.

Functions are like play houses inside the big room, and they each have their own
bulletin boards inside, which is each function's local namespace.

If you write "global xxx" inside a function, you are saying that when you are in that
playhouse, you will not use the inside private bulletin board for name tags labeled xxx,
but you will instead reach out and use the bulletin board in the big room. So xxx=123
means create an integer object-balloon with 123 value and make a tag labeled xxx and
tie a string from the 123 balloon to that tag, and then reach out and tack the tag to the
bulletin board in the big room.

When you leave the playhouse, its inside bulletin board is cleared of name tags (and the
strings detached).  When you enter again, you start with a clean inside board with only
name tags matching the formal parameter names (if any). If the last string is detached,
it is grabbed by a balloon collector, who pops it to make sure there is always space in
the sky for new balloons. Kind of ;-)

If you don't write "global xxx" inside the function, the rules for name tags labeled
xxx are different according to whether there's any code _anywhere_ in the function
that tacks up that name tag (e.g., assigns to that name) or whether the code just
looks for an existing tag (i.e., just uses it in an expression).

If there's an assignment anywhere, it's an error to try to use it in an expression
before the assignment. A legal assignment tacks the tag to the inside bulletin board.
The balloon and string part is the same story wherever the tag goes.

If there's no assignment, then the only other ordinary way it can be on the inside bb
is if it is a parameter name, or it got tacked there by some other code that tacks name tags,
like def foo... will make a foo name tag (the string goes to a function object), or class Bar...
which would make a Bar name tag with string to a class object. Those are the main ways.

If the name tag is not on the inside bb, it could still be on an enclosing playhouse's
bulletin board (it is now possible to nest playhouses, not just have them all in the big room.
If the name tag is not found on the bb of the immediately enclosing playhouse, it could be on
the bb of yet another enclosing playhouse, and so on, until if it is not found on the bb of
the big common room, it's a name error.

BTW, the name-tag end of strings can also be tied to some balloons, which may have special
eyelets taped to them. E.g., tuple-balloons come in variations according to how many fixed
eyelets they have for attaching strings to other balloons. In the case of tuples, the eyelets
are single-use. You can't cut and re-tie a single string, you have to make a new tuple-balloon
and tie what strings you want there. If you cut the last string to a tuple-balloon, the
baloon collector will grab it and eventually cut all the strings and pop the tuple-balloon,
maybe right away. He may have secret deals with balloon makers for recycling material, but
that's his business. List-ballons allow eyelet re-use, and also adding or removing eyelets.
But every eyelet must have a string leading to some balloon, even if it is the None balloon.

> 
>> 
>> # Second, are the globals accessible from multiple threads? Are you seeing
>> hard-stuck errors or blue-moon errors?
>
>Now my newbiness will be evident.  Multiple threads?  I am not consciously
>creating threads.  Should I?  Does python automatically create multiple
>threads?  What are hard-stuck/blue-moon errors?
You shouldn't have multiple threads unless you made them on purpose or used some
module that did it without your knowing. It should be prominent in the docs if so, though.
Hard-stuck/blue-moon is not technical terminology ;-) I meant, do you get the error
every time the code is executed, or only once in a blue moon.
>
>> 
>>>	if (meter == mainpic) and (button == 1):
>> 		# always here?
>		# yes
>>>		if ddcon == 0:
>> 			# and here ?
>			# yes
>>>			if ddon == 1:
>> 				# and here?
>				# no
				# so at least one if didn't just 'fall through'!
>>>				deleteDayDetail(widget, dayshow)
>>>				karamba.redrawWidget(widget)
>>>			createCurrentDetail(widget)
>>>			karamba.redrawWidget(widget)
>>>		else:
>> 			# never here, you're saying, right?
>			# always here
			# very very weird. What evidence are you interpreting to come to these conclusions?
>> 			# <snip>
>>>	else:
>> 		# never here either, right?
>		always here
		# again weird**n
>> 		# <snip>
>> 	# get here though?
>	# yes
>>>	buttonpressed = 1
>>>
If that is really happening, I wonder if you are somehow executing code from a different version
or have some kind of mixed-up installation. Or are using incompatible extension modules?
Do you have multiple versions installed? what are your versions, and what sym links are there?
And what are the #! lines of your script(s)?
>> I used tabs above to line up (maybe ;-) with your text, but maybe you
>> should run your code through tabnanny or something to check for consistent
>> usage. I never use tabs (though I use the tab key and gvim puts in 4 space
>
>Tabs seem to be fine in the actual code - I think it's the word wrapping
>in either your/my newsreader that is causing problems, but your tab
>positioning is correct.
>
>> indentation for me ;-) so I haven't used the tab checkers, but you might
>> benefit, perhaps.
>
>I'm using kate here under KDE/linux.  It has syntax highlighting for python, and
>seems to deal with tabs nicely.
>> 
>>>What these users are experiencing is that this portion of code is being
>>>processed, and evaluating all if statements as true, however, as you can
>>>see, they cannot all be true each time this function is called.  Their
>>>versions of python also ignore the else construct.
>>>
Their versions? Does that mean you are trying to run extensions or .pyc code
with different version interpreters? That shouldn't work. Python source (.py)
should work, unless an old interpreter runs into a new feature it doesn't know about.

>>>Can anyone shed any light on what might be going on with these users?
>>>
>> I'd check on the globals and threading issues first. Then see about
>> building a mousetrap.
>
>Why would these affect the interpretation of the if/else.  Seems to me,
>that if the if statement evaluates to true, then the else statement should be
>ignored.  However, it appears that for these users, python is just
Sure, I didn't really believe what I was reading, I guess. Sorry. I thought
the condition data was getting clobbered, not the condition machinery.

>ploughing right on through, and running the else statement also.  Or am I
>missing something.  What is a mousetrap?
By mousetrap I meant some test code inserted to trap the problem mouse, metaphorically speaking.

>
>Any further help would be greatly appreciated.
I guess version clash or some installation corruption looks most likely from here.
Gotta go...

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From bgailer at alum.rpi.edu  Mon Jul 21 09:50:27 2003
From: bgailer at alum.rpi.edu (Bob Gailer)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 07:50:27 -0600
Subject: ODBC to Oracle (data source name not found)
In-Reply-To: <000601c34f88$88723b00$0500a8c0@MichaelVAIO>
References: <5.2.1.1.0.20030721061538.01d49578@66.28.54.253>
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20030721074926.029b3c50@66.28.54.253>

At 06:03 AM 7/21/2003 -0700, Michael J. Moore wrote:

>Oh great! Now what?
>
>Thanks for the info Bob.
>Regards,
>Mike

Try cx_Oracle: http://www.computronix.com/utilities.shtml. Works for me.

Bob Gailer
bgailer at alum.rpi.edu
303 442 2625
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From bokr at oz.net  Thu Jul 24 00:18:39 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 24 Jul 2003 04:18:39 GMT
Subject: How does Mr. Martelli's Borg recipe work ?
References: <764b8294.0307221520.18017b09@posting.google.com> <vhru01p6s53790@news.supernews.com> <mailman.1058985883.11441.python-list@python.org> <bfmtbe$6lt$0@216.39.172.122> <mailman.1058999692.2304.python-list@python.org> <bfnhb6$7q8$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <bfnmmv$fur$0@216.39.172.122>

On 24 Jul 2003 02:47:02 GMT, bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) wrote:

>On Wed, 23 Jul 2003 16:40:00 -0600, Steven Taschuk <staschuk at telusplanet.net> wrote:
>
>>Quoth Bengt Richter:
>>  [borg vs singleton]
>>> How about just
>>> 
>>>     import zerolengthfile as borginstancename
>>> 
>>> and using it? E.g., [...]
>>
>>That would be fine in many cases, I'm sure.
>>
>>Modules don't do properties (or other descriptor magic), though.
>>
>Not insurmountable ;-)
>
>====< propmod.py >==========================================
[...]
>I thought it cute to make a property that is a kind of gateway to
>the class attribute space, so that one can use the .properties attribute
>of the propmod module to list, store, retrieve, and delete properties -- as well
>as arbitrary class variables...

Of course,

     propmod.__class__.xxx = yyy

works as well as

     propmod.properties = 'xxx', yyy

so it's kind of a silly exercise, but it does demo properties for a sharable "module."

A much sparer approach:

 >>> import sys
 >>> sys.modules['simple'] = type('SimpleMod',(),{})()
 >>> import simple
 >>> simple.x = 123
 >>> simple.__class__.hi = property(lambda self:'Hi ho')
 >>> simple.x
 123
 >>> simple.hi
 'Hi ho'
 >>> file('impsimp.py','w').write('import simple as m\n')
 >>> import impsimp
 >>> impsimp.m.hi
 'Hi ho'
 >>> impsimp.m.x
 123

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From staschuk at telusplanet.net  Wed Jul 16 22:01:40 2003
From: staschuk at telusplanet.net (Steven Taschuk)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 20:01:40 -0600
Subject: Augmented Assignment question
In-Reply-To: <215bhv0bnkn13eivh0s64ic5ml8obpgfg7@4ax.com>; from dtolton@yahoo.com on Wed, Jul 16, 2003 at 06:13:51PM +0000
References: <215bhv0bnkn13eivh0s64ic5ml8obpgfg7@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <20030716200140.A656@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>

Quoth Doug Tolton:
  [...]
> fnormal, ftruncated, fsemicolon = 0,0,0
> 
> // loop through a file and process all documents:
> 	normal, truncated, semicolon = self.checkdoc(curdoc)
> 	fnormal += normal
> 	ftruncated += truncated
> 	fsemicolon += semicolon
> 
> This solution strikes me as inelegant and ugly.  Is there a cleaner
> way of accomplishing this?

It seems possible that your normal, truncated and semicolon
variables should be bundled into a single object:

    class DocumentStatistics(object):
        # ...
        def __iadd__(self, (deltanormal, deltatruncated, deltasemicolon)):
            self.normal += deltanormal
            self.truncated += deltatruncated
            self.semicolon += deltasemicolon

Then you can just do
    docstats = DocumentStatistics()
    # ...
    docstats += self.checkdoc(curdoc)
If these variables usually change in synch, this seems a natural
way to organize them.

You might also want to look into Numeric's arrays.

(And there's always

    normal, truncated, semicolon = map(operator.add,
                                       (normal, truncated, semicolon),
                                       self.checkdoc(curdoc))

which I consider inferior to your straightforward approach with
three augmented assignments.)

-- 
Steven Taschuk     staschuk at telusplanet.net
"Please don't damage the horticulturalist."
         -- _Little Shop of Horrors_ (1960)




From sjmachin at lexicon.net  Wed Jul 23 08:28:04 2003
From: sjmachin at lexicon.net (John Machin)
Date: 23 Jul 2003 05:28:04 -0700
Subject: lists and files question
References: <3F1DCF52.7040607@hotmail.com> <mailman.1058920774.24079.python-list@python.org> <3F1DF318.20308@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <c76ff6fc.0307230428.6fa369db@posting.google.com>

hokiegal99 <hokiegal99 at hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<3F1DF318.20308 at hotmail.com>...
> "print fname" prints out the list of files in "setpath" w/o problem. How 
> does it do that if os.walk doesn't give it the path to the files?

If you do open('x.txt') and your current directory is (say) /tmp, it
will in effect be trying to open('/tmp/x.txt') which will presumably
fail with the error that you saw because there's no such file ...
hence Sean's advice to use os.path.join so that you are in effect
doing
open('/usr/hokiepokie/weird_files/x.txt')
thus opening the file that you want and does exist -- unless of course
some other process moved it or deleted it after the os.walk() and
before the open() --

This is not a Python thingy nor a Linux thingy; implicitly assuming
that a "short" filename is relative to the calling process's current
directory/folder/group/whatever has been accepted behaviour with any
hierarchical file system that I've ever seen.

Now answering your question:
fname contains (say) ['x.txt', 'foo.xls', 'bar.doc'] and root contains
(say) '/usr/hokiepokie/weird_files'. So of course
   print fname
manages to print 
   ['x.txt', 'foo.xls', 'bar.doc']
without reference to root, just as 
   zot = 42; print zot
manages to print
   42
without reference to root.


> 
> Here's some output from "print fname":
> 
> ['index.txt', 'CELL-MINUTES.xls', '.nautilus-metafile.xml']

... large chunks of your life history snipped ...

> Sheet.xls', 'application.pdf', 'budsum.pdf']
> 
> When I add os.path.join like this:
> 
> setpath = raw_input("Enter the path: ")
> for root, dirs, files in os.walk(setpath):
> 	id = re.compile('Microsoft Excel Worksheet')
> 	fname = files
> 	print fname
> 	content = open(os.path.join(root,fname[0]),'rb')
> 	
> I get a "IndexError: list index out of range" error.
> 
> This is a Linux 2.4 computer running Python 2.3b2... if that matters.

It's always good to tell the OS and Python version; however in this
case it doesn't matter.

Put your thinking cap on: "list index out of range" ... which list?
what was the value of the index? ... "in range" means 0 <= index <
length of list; which of those 2 constraints was violated? what does
that tell you?



From max at alcyone.com  Tue Jul  1 22:22:12 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 19:22:12 -0700
Subject: functors
References: <3jc4gvgn5rb4c4008eedg958ee594lu8p2@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3F0241D4.34010A5C@alcyone.com>

Tom Plunket wrote:

> I wouldn't mind creating a new class to wrap this up (that's what
> I'd do in C++, and that class would have an operator() defined),
> but I can't seem to discover how to make callable objects in
> Python.

The __call__ method is the equivalent of C++'s operator ().

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ Sometimes there's no point in giving up.
\__/  Louis Wu



From maxm at mxm.dk  Sun Jul  6 15:51:04 2003
From: maxm at mxm.dk (Max M)
Date: Sun, 06 Jul 2003 21:51:04 +0200
Subject: Search for mapping solution
In-Reply-To: <be9t66$2otne$1@ID-47851.news.dfncis.de>
References: <be9t66$2otne$1@ID-47851.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <3F087DA8.1000007@mxm.dk>

Markus Joschko wrote:

> Hi,
> stated in a post befor, I'm a java programmer, fascinated about the elegant
> way python solves iterations. Maybe you can show me a solution how to map
> the following
> 
> I have a List:
> 
> Name - Number - Costs
> 
> lines = [['fred','333','0,10'],['sam','444','1'],['fred','333','0,50']]
> 
> Now I want to have it in a dictionary(name,costs)  Should look like
> {'fred':'0,60' , 'sam':'1'}
> 
> What's an elegant way to do it? I can use a lot of loops, but I assume, that
> there is a better way of doing so.

lines = [['fred','333','0,10'],['sam','444','1'],['fred','333','0,50']]
costs = {}
for name, items, price in lines:
     costs[name] = costs.setdefault(name, 0.0) + 
float(price.replace(',','.'))

print costs

 >>> {'fred': 0.59999999999999998, 'sam': 1.0}

regards Max M
	




From http  Sun Jul 20 21:11:03 2003
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 20 Jul 2003 18:11:03 -0700
Subject: Possible use of Python for a voting machine demo project -- your feedback requested
References: <P9DSa.111436$Io.9552373@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <bff56e$8iv$1@slb9.atl.mindspring.net> <7xllus94t8.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <K_idnV09hdycrYaiRTvU2Q@speakeasy.net> <lHGSa.111792$Io.9577193@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <7x1xwk8z14.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

"Alan Dechert" <adechert at earthlink.net> writes:
> Right.  This receipt problem is way overblown.  If we really thought this
> was a big problem, absentee voting would be illegal.  There are problems
> with absentee voting but then look at Oregon -- they have gone to
> vote-by-mail entirely.

In fact absentee ballots are just about the favorite mechanism of
ballot fraud.  Absentee voting should be greatly curtailed if not
banned outright.  Instead, voters away from home should be allowed to
cast their ballots at any official polling place they happen to be
near, not just at the one in their home district.

I have doubts about Oregon but its problems don't see nearly as bad as
places like Florida (try Googling for "Xavier Suarez" and "fraud").
If they did mail-in voting in Florida, they would never get a reliable
election result again.

As for the receipt problem being overblown, IIRC, Benaloh's original
paper described its motivation, citing examples of the Mafia telling
people how to vote in Italian elections and demanding to see receipts.
There would be similar problems in the US military from what I've heard.



From ilyak at red.seas.upenn.edu  Tue Jul 29 11:17:40 2003
From: ilyak at red.seas.upenn.edu (Ilya Knizhnik)
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 15:17:40 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: PyQt Help and Advice
Message-ID: <bg636k$408g$1@netnews.upenn.edu>

Dear All,

I am fairly new to Python.  I have found it an easy language to learn and 
a very usefull one for many tasks. Currently I am working on a python 
project that involves a GUI and it was suggested that PyQt is the best way to 
design that GUI.
However since PyQt is rather new, I have not found much documentation on 
it, or examples in it.  The only useful tutorial/book I have found is at 
www.opendocspublishing.com/pyqt/ but it is not always clear for someone 
with almost no GUI experience.
Does anyone have any suggestions?

Ilya




From mis6 at pitt.edu  Mon Jul 21 09:33:12 2003
From: mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato)
Date: 21 Jul 2003 06:33:12 -0700
Subject: properties + types, implementing meta-class desciptors elegantly?
References: <mailman.1058532630.7342.python-list@python.org> <bfa97g$s5j$0@216.39.172.122> <2259b0e2.0307190640.56266017@posting.google.com> <mailman.1058629890.30475.python-list@python.org> <2259b0e2.0307200652.131ed45e@posting.google.com> <mailman.1058717611.28555.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <2259b0e2.0307210533.6fd22744@posting.google.com>

"Mike C. Fletcher" <mcfletch at rogers.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.1058717611.28555.python-list at python.org>...
> Michele Simionato wrote:
> 
> >"Mike C. Fletcher" <mcfletch at rogers.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.1058629890.30475.python-list at python.org>...
> ><snip>
> >
> >As others before me, I am not sure of what you are trying to do
> >and why you are doing so. I use descriptors in this way:
> >
> >class o(object):
> >    class p( object ): # descriptor class
> >        def __set__( self, client, value, *args, **named ):
> >            print '__set__', self, client, value, args, named
> >            self.v=value
> >        def __get__(self,obj,cls):
> >            return self.v
> >    v = p()
> >
> You are aware that you have just created a class-attribute, rather than 
> an instance attribute?  The property/descriptor object exists within the 
> class 'o' namespace, not the instance namespace.  Try creating two 
> instances of your o class and setting v on both of them.  There is one 
> 'p' instance "self" to which you are assigning/retrieving an attribute 
> for all instances of o.  Creating class variables is certainly a valid 
> use for descriptors, but I'm not sure if that's really what you were 
> trying to do.

I have just copied your code, I thought you wanted a class attribute.
It is is trivial to do the same for instance attributes:

class o(object):
    class p( object ): # descriptor class
        def __set__( self, client, value, *args, **named ):
            print '__set__', self, client, value, args, named
            self.value=value
        def __get__(self,obj,cls):
            return self.value

    def __init__(self):
        self.v = self.p()

I understand that you aware of this, but you don't like it. Still I
do not understand why do you feel it to be ugly and/or inelegant. It
seems to me quite idiomatic.

> What I'm looking for, in terms of your code, is a method/function which 
> would do the proper thing instead of using "self.v=value", (or rather 
> client.__dict__['v'] = value (i.e. store the value in the client 
> dictionary)) for all of the major built-in types, such as 
> object-instances, classes (and object-instances with slots would be 
> nice).  To the best of my knowledge, such a function does not exist 
> within Python; for instances, simply doing instance.__dict__[ key ] = 
> value is sufficient, but classes do not have a method exposed AFAIK 
> which allows an equivalent setting of a value *without* triggering the 
> descriptor machinery for the given key.

Yes, I understand you want to be able to set class dictionaries just
as object dictionaries, bypassing descriptors. Still, I am not sure
if this would be a good idea.
 
> I'm creating a slightly more involved pattern, by the way:
> 
> class plugin( type ):
>     someHelperClass = common.ClassByNameProperty(
>        "someHelperClass", """Documentation for this meta-property""",
>        defaultValue = "some.package.module.ClassName",
>        setDefaultOnGet = 0,
>     )
> 
> class MyWorkingPlugIn( myBaseImplementation ):
>     __metaclass__ = plugin
> 
> instance = MyWorkingPlugIn()
> 
> Where the properties of the plugin meta-class are providing all sorts of 
> services for the MyWorkingPlugIn class, such as allowing it to find 
> "someHelperClass" related to the plug-in system while allowing that 
> property to be set manually if desired, or automatically calculating a 
> global identifier if the plug-in doesn't currently have a global 
> identifier.  The value is primarily that the meta-class will use exactly 
> the same mechanisms as the rest of the system, and so will be readily 
> dealt with by the property-based meta-application system. 
> 
> There are certainly other ways to get around the particular problem (I 
> have already done that), I'm looking for the *elegant* solution to the 
> *general* case.
> 

Elegance is in the eye of the beholder ;)

> Enjoy,
> Mike
> 
> _______________________________________
>   Mike C. Fletcher
>   Designer, VR Plumber, Coder
>   http://members.rogers.com/mcfletch/

Good luck with your project,

Michele



From shalehperry at comcast.net  Mon Jul  7 23:05:17 2003
From: shalehperry at comcast.net (Sean 'Shaleh' Perry)
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 20:05:17 -0700
Subject: PyIrc module
In-Reply-To: <20030707225250.7171.qmail@cs06.tgv.net>
References: <20030707225250.7171.qmail@cs06.tgv.net>
Message-ID: <200307072005.17077.shalehperry@comcast.net>

On Monday 07 July 2003 15:52, sylvain HELLEGOUARCH wrote:
> Hello everyone,
>
> This is my first message round here :)
>
> Well, my message is more or less an announcment of my pyirc module for
> Python (uh uh surprise this is the right place :)).
>
> This module tries to implement both RFC 1459 and 2812 about IRC protocol.
> I've decided to code my own module as Python has a lack of IRC ones.
> Generally speaking, either they are not up-to-date anylonger or they are
> written for a specific GUI.
>

not to downplay your work, but have you looked at Twisted? 
http://twistedmatrix.com/products/twisted





From martin at v.loewis.de  Sat Jul  5 04:07:47 2003
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-15?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 05 Jul 2003 10:07:47 +0200
Subject: sys.setedefaultencoding()
References: <mailman.1057346409.22941.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m3u1a1z99o.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

"Batista, Facundo" <FBatista at uniFON.com.ar> writes:

> Why? I *always* work with this type of enconding (I live in Argentina).

What type of encoding is "this"? If you are using ISO-8859-1, and you
want to print a Unicode string S to stdout, you should do this

print S.encode("iso-8859-1")

instead of trying this

print S

and hoping that the system default encoding will be ISO-8859-1.

So you should always use implicit conversions, and never implicit
ones, when it comes to encodings.

Regards,
Martin



From tzot at sil-tec.gr  Tue Jul 22 12:59:08 2003
From: tzot at sil-tec.gr (Christos TZOTZIOY Georgiou)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 19:59:08 +0300
Subject: A challenge to the ASCII proponents.
References: <mailman.1058278343.23104.python-list@python.org> <bf167a$pvt$1@panix2.panix.com> <ufzl7rdno.fsf@online.no> <3F142A58.80426AA4@hotmail.com> <2259b0e2.0307161620.4a9353f1@posting.google.com> <Xns93BB246FDDBCFJanC@213.118.75.80> <3F168011.3AEB3EFC@hotmail.com> <3F172442.2040907@v.loewis.de> <3F17C1D4.1A70703A@hotmail.com> <m3fzl3lvg6.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <3F1849A0.CB3053D8@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <amqqhv0gbdok6dnk6ib9342lejpc4ap5pd@4ax.com>

On Fri, 18 Jul 2003 20:25:20 +0100, rumours say that Alan Kennedy
<alanmk at hotmail.com> might have written:

>It is also worth noting that your message and messages quoting it are
>the only hits that turn up in a Google Groups search using the
>original greek text as a search term: i.e. I go to Google Groups and
>paste in the greek letters.

If I may say it sideways, try searching for google for the french word
"c?fe", as in "un c?fe s'il vous pla?t".  Wanna bet my message will be
the only one to be found? :)

(I'd lose that bet.  There would be two more posts, another one with the
word incorrectly written --but it's excusable judging on the newsgroup
name ;-) -- and one in swedish).

The word you should be looking for is 'gignw/skw', not 'gi/gnwskw'.

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=%CE%B3%CE%B9%CE%B3%CE%BD%CF%8E%CF%83%CE%BA%CF%89&btnG=Google+Search

(one huge line)
-- 
TZOTZIOY, I speak England very best,
Microsoft Security Alert: the Matrix began as open source.



From csad7 at yahoo.com  Sun Jul 20 09:16:53 2003
From: csad7 at yahoo.com (christof hoeke)
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 15:16:53 +0200
Subject: Strings and Unicode
References: <fef0a228.0307200027.2ef962e9@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bfe4np$77v$00$1@news.t-online.com>

- wrote:
> I have a function that takes a string as an input parameter. This
> function then urlencodes the string and sends it to a server with
> telnetlib.Telnet
>
> The problem is that the string gets converted into what seems to be
> Unicode. How can I check to see if the input-string is Unicode and
> convert it to a different character set (in this case ISO-Latin1).

to test if it is unicode simply check the type

    print type(string)

converting seems to be working by using the encode function of unicode
strings:

    isostring = unicodestring.encode('iso8859-1')

i am not really experienced in python and its unicode processing but this
worked at least partly for me

chris





From adalke at mindspring.com  Sat Jul 19 18:53:17 2003
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 16:53:17 -0600
Subject: Strange (?) list comprehension behavior
References: <mailman.1058652030.22432.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bfchrv$flp$1@slb9.atl.mindspring.net>

George Henry:
> >>>[op for op in PSILex.ops if op.startswith("|| hello")]
>
> yields "AttributeError: 'int' object has no attribute 'startswith',"
> however:
>
> >>>[type(op) for op in PSILex.ops]
>
> produces a list of <type 'str'> objects, as would be expected. So, what is
> op? Is it a string, an int, or something else?

Can you copy&paste what you did, rather than interpret the output?
There's no way to get both of these errors that I know, and I expect
it to be more likely that you didn't see a <type 'int'> somewhere in
the output rather than a bug in Python.

You can also try

  [type(op) for op in PSILex.ops if type(op) != type("")]

                    Andrew
                    dalke at dalkescientific.com





From ady982 at ploiesti.astral.ro  Mon Jul  7 06:47:00 2003
From: ady982 at ploiesti.astral.ro (Catalin)
Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 13:47:00 +0300
Subject: Python vs PHP
Message-ID: <3F094FA4.9030800@ploiesti.astral.ro>

Can Python replace PHP?
Can I use a python program to make an interface to a mysql 4.X database?
If that's possible where can I find a tutorial?





From corey.coughlin at attbi.com  Tue Jul  8 14:50:56 2003
From: corey.coughlin at attbi.com (Corey Coughlin)
Date: 8 Jul 2003 11:50:56 -0700
Subject: Suggesting for overloading the assign operator
References: <6f03c4a5.0306301931.3f15fbb7@posting.google.com> <mailman.1057072504.30095.python-list@python.org> <bdteop$t9u$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <a8623416.0307081050.18fdc031@posting.google.com>

You know, I couldn't even figure out what the whole ':=' assignment
did until I saw this message:

bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) wrote in message 
> I don't know that I would totally dismiss the usage. It could be
> a concise notation for a possibly polymorphic update operation.
> 
>     w = Widget(blah, blah)
>     w := ('blue','white')  # changes fg/bg colors
>     w := (20,40) # changes position
>     w := Font('Times Roman', size=24)
>     w := 'some text appended to a text widget'
> 
> Of course, you could use a property very similarly, e.g.,
>     w.p = 'text ...'
> 
> I guess it's a matter of what kind of sugar you like ;-)
> 

So what we're talking about here is some form of type driven
assignment?  Where you can assign to properties of an object given a
specific type of rhs expression?  I guess that could be useful, but it
sounds like it could only apply to a very small set of objects, namely
objects where all the properties have different types.  It seems like
adding a new syntax to support a fairly small subset of objects is a
long way to go to make things 'easier'. It looks like it would be easy
to screw up, too.  For instance:

class Point(object):
  def __init__(self, nx, ny):
    self.x = nx
    self.y = ny
  def __typeassign__(self, whatever):
    # some magic #
	
a = Point(3,4)  # so far so good
a := (3,4)	# ok, that could work
a := 3		# hmm... will it set x, or y, or x and y, or give an
exception?

or, let's go with the currency example:

class Currency(object):
  def __init__(self, cval):
    self.amount = cval
    self.exchangerate = 1.0
  def __typeassign__(self, whatever):
    #even better magic #

a = Currency(7)
a := 6         # so does this change the amount, or the exchange rate?

So it looks like the behavior here would be at best unpredictable,
unless you already have a deep understanding of what's going on in the
object.  (And if you have a deep understanding of what's going on in
the object, would 'a.amount' be so tricky to use?)  Now sure, there
are lots of operations that aren't used by every object, but assigning
values to object attributes is a pretty fundamental part of any object
oriented language, and the way Python does it now seems to work for a
lot of people.  From the original example, it looks kind of like you
want to define a sort of user-definable built in type, like integer or
string, where there is always a singular piece of data that may have
special functional attributes but no other data attributes.  But in
that case, you wouldn't want to assign it as a regular object, you'd
want to build in a special syntax that Python could use to understand
the built in type, so you would have to have:

a = $7
a = $6

so I guess even that wouldn't work quite the way you want.  So for
now, I vote no to adding ':=' assignment.  Sorry if this is too basic
a look at this, it takes me a while to wrap my head around this
complicated syntax stuff.



From tim at remove_if_not_spam.digitig.co.uk  Wed Jul 16 18:42:22 2003
From: tim at remove_if_not_spam.digitig.co.uk (Tim Rowe)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 23:42:22 +0100
Subject: Numarray for Python 2.3
References: <gqqahv09j8n5cr9e42v4pk74temcomdjul@4ax.com> <3F15A829.9090200@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <05lbhvki5vlpfb8d349dsn8e3hbb2bmfuu@4ax.com>

On Wed, 16 Jul 2003 15:31:53 -0400, "Colin J. Williams"
<cjw at sympatico.ca> wrote:

>No, not the last time I tried.  It seems that Python 2.3 looks for a
>different .dll structure than python 2.2.

Thanks.  I don't need it just at the moment, but I was planning to
learn it during quiet moments.  I can wait.



From nsmith at ilangua.com  Mon Jul 28 10:06:32 2003
From: nsmith at ilangua.com (Neil Smith)
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 15:06:32 +0100
Subject: ANN: Python on ecademy
Message-ID: <3F252DE8.3090106@ilangua.com>

For those interested in promoting Python's use in the commercial world:

I've been using Python in my businesses for nearly 10 years. Recently I 
also came across ecademy, an online business networking tool (in the 
human network rather than electronic network sense). ecademy is gaining 
traction and helping people realise business opportunities. With a view 
to using the network potential of ecademy for the greater promotion of 
Python in Business I have created a 'club' within ecademy.

If you have an interest in the use and promotion of Python in business 
then I invite you to join ecademy and join the club (there is no 
charge). The aim is to raise awareness of opportunities and then network 
to find the catalyst that can turn an idea into reality. I envisage that 
the club and its members will be working together to influence the 
decision makers that also form part of the ecademy business network.

This will be very much the guerilla marketing that complements the 
formal work carried out by the Python Business Forum and other 
like-minded organisations.

If you feel you can contribute, or benefit from this effort, please use 
this link to join ecademy:

http://www.ecademy.com/account.php?op=signup&xref=30738

The 'Python for Business' club can then be accessed through:

http://www.ecademy.com/module.php?mod=club&op=page&c=618&xref=30738

Be aware that ecademy is not a mailing list, it is a mechanism for 
actively e-meeting business people to make things happen.

Neil Smith







From adalke at mindspring.com  Tue Jul 22 18:11:07 2003
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 16:11:07 -0600
Subject: Voting Project Needs Python People
References: <LDVSa.14955$Mc.1126731@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <xqxwuebfyym.fsf@cola2.ca.boeing.com> <bfhhgq$5lu$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net> <xqx7k6b36r8.fsf@cola2.ca.boeing.com> <jk_Sa.113364$Io.9707082@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <7x65lv31hf.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <z8%Sa.113480$Io.9712518@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <xqxsmoyitto.fsf@cola2.ca.boeing.com> <3jhTa.115229$Io.9825106@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <bfkch9$is4$1@slb4.atl.mindspring.net>

Alan Dechert:
> catch it.  If one percent of the electronic votes were altered (evenly
> distributed), you will find one mismatch for sure after checking only a
> dozen or two ballots.

Actually, around 70 ballots.

The odds of finding one ballot to be wrong is 1%, so there's a 99%
chance that it's unaltered.  There's a 0.99*0.99 chance that two are
unaltered, and in general a 0.99**n chance that n are unaltered.

To get even odds of noticing an error requires

  0.99**n == 0.5
  --> log(0.99)*n == log(0.5)

>>> math.log(0.5) / math.log(0.99)
68.967563936528421
>>>

about 70 verifications.

                    Andrew
                    dalke at dalkescientific.com





From faizan at jaredweb.com  Mon Jul 28 14:02:47 2003
From: faizan at jaredweb.com (Fazer)
Date: 28 Jul 2003 11:02:47 -0700
Subject: Python vs. Perl vs. PHP?
Message-ID: <7b454334.0307281002.41dae81b@posting.google.com>

Hello,

I am an avid user of PHP and I am just fooling around with Python for
now.  I originally wanted to know which one is faster.  As in, works
faster.  So far, I think PHP is the fastest for dynamic web-content. 
Am I wrong?



From peter at engcorp.com  Wed Jul  9 05:57:30 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 05:57:30 -0400
Subject: Executables under Win32
References: <5vkngvs2epq6rv0a3rodeb839k5ls8bafj@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3F0BE70A.165B5274@engcorp.com>

Fuzzyman wrote:
> 
> IS there a tool to make Python Executables (binaries) under Win32...
> or must people have a distribution of Python to use any scripts I
> write ?
> 
> I don't need to hide my source code - but would liek to make it easy
> for a newbie to use my scripts.

(Excellently asked question!  We get this one often, but rarely so
clearly. :-)

There is py2exe and the Macmillan Installer, as well as some lesser
known alternatives.  py2exe runs on Windows only, the other on Windows
and Linux (at least).  A quick Google for either should get you there...

-Peter



From akineko at pacbell.net  Wed Jul  9 15:46:45 2003
From: akineko at pacbell.net (Aki Niimura)
Date: 9 Jul 2003 12:46:45 -0700
Subject: Python and freeze (something odd)
Message-ID: <b714b8de.0307091146.534dcdd9@posting.google.com>

Hello Everyone,

I feel sorry to bother you guys as I posted another yesterday, too.

Finally my script which accesses a web site from a Python script is functioning
fully. It works very nicely (upload / download / does operations).

Now I'm trying to "freeze" my script to a single executable file under Solaris
using freeze. I have done such many times and it worked magically (until now).

However, maybe I'm out of luck.

When I started the generated executable, I got the following:
 Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "websc.py", line 284, in ?
  File "websc.py", line 276, in main
  File "websc.py", line 125, in upload_files
  File "websc_upload.py", line 173, in httprequest
  File "/usr/local/lib/python2.2/email/Message.py", line 113, in as_string
    g.flatten(self, unixfrom=unixfrom)
  File "/usr/local/lib/python2.2/email/Generator.py", line 103, in flatten
    self._write(msg)
  File "/usr/local/lib/python2.2/email/Generator.py", line 131, in _write
    self._dispatch(msg)
  File "/usr/local/lib/python2.2/email/Generator.py", line 157, in _dispatch
    meth(msg)
  File "/usr/local/lib/python2.2/email/Generator.py", line 231, in _handle_multipart
    g.flatten(part, unixfrom=False)
  File "/usr/local/lib/python2.2/email/Generator.py", line 103, in flatten
    self._write(msg)
  File "/usr/local/lib/python2.2/email/Generator.py", line 138, in _write
    self._write_headers(msg)
  File "/usr/local/lib/python2.2/email/Generator.py", line 172, in _write_headers
    elif _is8bitstring(v):
  File "/usr/local/lib/python2.2/email/Generator.py", line 44, in _is8bitstring
    unicode(s, 'us-ascii')
LookupError: unknown encoding: us-ascii

//

As I mentioned earlier, it works fine if it is invoked from .py files.
Also, I created a simple test program which just does unicode(s, 'us-ascii').
The frozen version of such test program works without a hitch.

Guido mentioned in a document for 'freeze' saying:
"... It may still be confused -- it will not
know about calls to the __import__ built-in function, ..."

I guess my program confused 'freeze' as unicode is a built-in function.
However, he didn't offer any further information.

Any thoughts, any suggestions?

Thanks in advance.

Best regards,
Aki Niimura

(This is a repost as my previous posting seemed ignored)



From skip at pobox.com  Wed Jul  9 15:21:41 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 14:21:41 -0500
Subject: check if dir exists
In-Reply-To: <pan.2003.07.09.19.01.24.826622@sdf-eu.org>
References: <pan.2003.07.09.19.01.24.826622@sdf-eu.org>
Message-ID: <16140.27461.265158.768237@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    Geiregat> How can I check if a dir exists ?

    >>> import os
    >>> print os.path.isdir("/tmp")
    True
    >>> print os.path.isdir("/foo")
    False

Skip




From scook at elp.rr.com  Wed Jul  2 22:51:17 2003
From: scook at elp.rr.com (Stan Cook)
Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 02:51:17 GMT
Subject: Date issue Win98 vs NT
References: <SDsMa.38974$hV.2346862@twister.austin.rr.com> <cb85gvgtf2657aon58qu4p3qorvfpbi79v@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <FSMMa.39988$hV.2528170@twister.austin.rr.com>

Thanks!!  You were right on with that one.  I've been working on the program
at home and work.  At work with NT and 98 at home.  I changed all of the
gmtime references to localtime and everything came out correct.

Thanks again....

Stan
"Christos TZOTZIOY Georgiou" <tzot at sil-tec.gr> wrote in message
news:cb85gvgtf2657aon58qu4p3qorvfpbi79v at 4ax.com...
> On Wed, 02 Jul 2003 03:50:10 GMT, rumours say that "Stan Cook"
> <scook at elp.rr.com> might have written:
>
> >Has anyone else had this or a similar problem and is there a workaround?
>
> >This piece of code:
>
> >from time import gmtime, strftime
> >_log = _log + "\\" + strftime("%m%d%y", gmtime()) + ".log"
>
> >produces a file with the name 'today's date.log' on NT, but creates a
file
> >called 'tomorrow's date.log' on Windows 98.  I would really like to know
> >why this happens.  Any help offered is very much appreciated.
>
> Are you by any chance in Austin, Texas?
>
> I could guess that first you tried this code in Windows NT, and later
> rebooted to Windows 98.  Running your code on Windows 98 happened after
> 6pm, your local time.
>
> By that time, I think it is already tomorrow in Greenwich, England
> (which is what gmtime provides).  Try localtime instead (assuming your
> timezone is set correctly both in NT and 98).
> --
> TZOTZIOY, I speak England very best,
> Microsoft Security Alert: the Matrix began as open source.





From viffer750 at hotmail.com  Mon Jul 21 08:17:17 2003
From: viffer750 at hotmail.com (BDM)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 08:17:17 -0400
Subject: Calling python from asp
References: <3f17dc2c@cpns1.saic.com> <bfa6uk$cdshr$1@ID-67890.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <3f1b7758@cpns1.saic.com>

I thought about that one too. I checked, and "Everyone" has access to
site-packages and the folders below it.  Is there any sort of library path
setting I need for Python to work with ASP under Win2000?

"Ulrich Petri" <ulope at gmx.de> wrote in message
news:bfa6uk$cdshr$1 at ID-67890.news.uni-berlin.de...
> "BDM" <viffer750 at hotmail.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
> news:3f17dc2c at cpns1.saic.com...
> > Greetings,
> > I'm having a difficult time calling a python module from within ASP.  I
> have
> > narrowed the problem down the very beginning of my code, where I'm
> > attempting to import a method.  Below is a snippet of the code
> >
> > import sys
> > print 'Imported Sys'
> > from pscape.xml.handler import pscape_xml_parser
> > print  'Imported XML Parser'
> >
> > The import sys statement works fine.  The import of pscape_xml_parser is
> > failing. pscape.xml.handler is within my site-packages directory.  I
have
> > checked  python's sys.path from within ASP, and
> > c:\python22\lib\site-packages is in the path.  This code runs fine when
> > executed from within the python interpreter, but not when called from
ASP.
> >
> > Any idea what I'm doing wrong here?  I'm sure it must be something very
> > simple.  I'm running this under Windows2000 Server, IIS5.0, Python
2.2.2,
> > and win32all-150.
>
> perhaps the webservers user (Normaly IUSR_......) has no rights to access
> the files within site-packages?
>
> Ciao Ulrich
>
>





From jjl at pobox.com  Sat Jul 26 20:40:03 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 27 Jul 2003 01:40:03 +0100
Subject: code coverage tool with emacs integration?
Message-ID: <87u198ree4.fsf@pobox.com>

Anybody know of one?

Actually, I have a feeling that emacs understands a standard format
for errors, which would make it really easy to implement this by
having the coverage tool print results in that format -- anybody know
where to find the details?


I also wonder if some kind of graphical display might be useful
somehow, having been inspired by this:

http://kcachegrind.sourceforge.net/

(really, I just like the pretty pictures :)


John



From jfromm at jasc.com  Wed Jul  2 09:04:12 2003
From: jfromm at jasc.com (Joe Fromm)
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 08:04:12 -0500
Subject: How to keep a Tkinter-Dialog on top of all other windows?
References: <4b66f6d2.0307020435.345ff4f1@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3f02d84a$0$43850$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net>

"Thomas N?cker" <thomas.nuecker at web.de> wrote in message
news:4b66f6d2.0307020435.345ff4f1 at posting.google.com...
> Hi!
>
> I am creating a dialog-box within my application, using tkinter. The
> problem is the following: After the dialogbox is started, the main
> application window comes again to top and the dialogbox is covered by
> the window of the main application and must be "fetched" again via the
> taskbar to continue. Is there a way to "force" the dialogbox on top of
> all other windows? (I'm using MSWindows and Python22)
>
<snip>

I had a similar problem using Python/tkinter embedded in a Win32 app, and
never found a truly satisfactory solution. The best I was able to do was
have the tk window call into my app, passing its window handle (which you
can get via winfo_id()).  In my app I have a timer running - as long as that
window exists it will keep calling SetWindowPos with the HWND_TOP flag to
move the Tk window on top of all the app windows.  When given the Tk window
handle you need to hunt up through it's parents until you find a window with
no parent, and call SetWindowPos on that window.

If the window being watched no longer exists I just kill the timer and clear
the window handle.

I'd love to find a solution that isn't such a grotesque hack.

Joe Fromm





From harry.g.george at boeing.com  Thu Jul 10 10:07:32 2003
From: harry.g.george at boeing.com (Harry George)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 14:07:32 GMT
Subject: Getting Started with python
References: <3f0d2cb9$1@news.comindico.com.au>
Message-ID: <xqxsmpe8ogr.fsf@cola2.ca.boeing.com>

"Tony Steward" <tsteward at dodo.com.au> writes:

> Hello All,
> Ok i've decided to try Python can anyone point me at a simple demo of a
> windows program operating a database (maybe an address book) so I can see
> how it is done.
> 
> Thanks in advance
> Tony
> 
> 

I'll assume you already know DBMS programming (and SQL syntax) from
other contexts, so the problem is to learn "how do I do this in
Python?"

You probably want to start here:
  http://www.python.org/topics/database/

Notice the "DB-API spec 2.0".  That is the generic interface.  You write
code to that API, and then use various databases (on various
platforms) underneath. 

Next, see:
  http://www.python.org/topics/database/modules.html

Notice that each DBMS binding has its own nuances, with its own
documentation.  The nuances tend to be in establishing the initial
connection, and in the treatment of quotes in SQL statements.  That
is, they are all more or less compliant with the DBI-API.

Finally, I haven't done work specifically on Windows databases, but if
you are familiar with ODBC you might try:
http://www.egenix.com/files/python/mxODBC.html



-- 
harry.g.george at boeing.com
6-6M31 Knowledge Management
Phone: (425) 294-8757



From mwilson at the-wire.com  Tue Jul 15 11:59:05 2003
From: mwilson at the-wire.com (Mel Wilson)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 11:59:05 -0400
Subject: Securing the Pyton Interpreter?
References: <slrnbh7q3f.kiv.usenet@norge.freeshell.org>
Message-ID: <JTCF/ks/K3WS089yn@the-wire.com>

In article <slrnbh7q3f.kiv.usenet at norge.freeshell.org>,
Stephen VanDahm <usenet at fomps.net> wrote:
>I'm looking for a way to install Python on a UNIX machine in a way such
>that any user on the system can use it, but only to execute scripts that
>are located in a certain directory.  I do not have root access on the
>machine that will be running Python, so my options are limited.  I thought
>about hacking the Python interpreter itself so that it will examine the
>argument array and exit with an error if the script to be executed isn't
>in the appropriate directory, but this seems pretty risky.  The module
>'site.py' is imported automatically upon initialization -- I've thought of
>adding the check there instead.  I don't think either of these solutions
>are very elegant.  Is there a better way?

   I would say, write a program that checks the directory,
then invokes python if it likes what it sees.  Make it suid
as the owner of the installed python to keep people from
sneaking around it.  A shell script might be possible, but I
seem to recall there are complications with suid on scripts
.. though I don't recall what they are.

   This won't work if there's then a permission conflict
with the data the programs are supposed to work on.

        Regards.        Mel.



From chris.gonnerman at newcenturycomputers.net  Wed Jul 16 23:43:16 2003
From: chris.gonnerman at newcenturycomputers.net (Chris Gonnerman)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 22:43:16 -0500
Subject: Distutils help needed (suggestions anyway)
Message-ID: <000d01c34c15$8e87e240$2100000a@house>

A user contacted me a week or so ago about problems building
the new gdmodule version.  A moment's study revealed the
problem... the GD include file gd_io.h contains a structure
which has changed somewhere between GD 2.0.1 and 2.0.8.

In the earlier versions, the gdIOCtx structure had a member:

    void (*free)(struct gdIOCtx *);

but in the newer versions the name of the member is gd_free.

Ideally I'd like the setup.py script to detect and adapt to
this; but before I go and invent an all-new wheel I thought
I'd see if there is an existing solution for this sort of
distribution problem.

Chris Gonnerman -- chris.gonnerman at newcenturycomputers.net
http://newcenturycomputers.net





From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Tue Jul 29 11:31:51 2003
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 10:31:51 -0500
Subject: pretty printing graphs
In-Reply-To: <bg4t8a$g1f$1@216.39.172.122> (bokr@oz.net's message of "29 Jul
 2003 04:30:02 GMT")
References: <mailman.1059412614.26573.python-list@python.org>
	<bg4ksi$spe$0@216.39.172.122> <bg4t8a$g1f$1@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <m27k61bb88.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

>>>>> "Bengt" == Bengt Richter <bokr at oz.net> writes:

    Bengt> should be -- def showInPage(self, pageHeight=6*11,
    Bengt> pageWidth=78): return '\n'.join(self.boxlines(pageHeight,
    Bengt> pageWidth)) -- [...]

I think I may have discovered another bug.  In the longish example below,
the children of n2 are n20 and n21

   n2.children.extend([n20, n21])

These children are the branch:

     |------------------+        
 +-------+          +-------+    
 |3 4 5 6|          |6 4 5 6|    
 |3 4 5 6|          |-------|    
 |-------|          |1 1 1 1|    
 |1 1 1 1|          +-------+    
 +-------+                       

However, if you run your pprint on this example, they appear below the
n4 branch.

Haven't had a chance to grok the code yet -- I just came across this
bug when using your code on a test case for a projective clustering
neural network algorithm I'm implementing.  The example is from Cao
and Wu, Neural Networks 15(2002) 105-120.

   http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6T08-43T2MC4-1&_user=5745&_handle=W-WA-A-A-AD-MsSAYZA-UUW-AUCEZCZEBD-AZZEEDDUV-AD-U&_fmt=full&_coverDate=01%2F31%2F2002&_rdoc=10&_orig=browse&_srch=%23toc%234856%232002%23999849998%23290257!&_cdi=4856&view=c&_acct=C000001358&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=5745&md5=61f59ff40e082d56154538b436b0010e


def test3():
    n = Node(TextBox("""1 2 3 4
2 3 4 5
3 4 5 6
4 5 6 7
6 7 8 9
1 2 3 4
3 4 5 6
2 3 4 5
6 4 5 6
4 2 3 1
6 7 1 2
4 5 6 7
-------
0 0 0 0
"""))

    n0 = Node(TextBox("""1 2 3 4
1 2 3 4
4 2 3 1
-------
0 1 1 0
"""))

    n1 = Node(TextBox("""2 3 4 5
2 3 4 5
-------
1 1 1 1
"""))

    n2 = Node(TextBox("""3 4 5 6
3 4 5 6
6 4 5 6
-------
0 1 1 1
"""))

    n3 = Node(TextBox("""4 5 6 7
4 5 6 7
-------
1 1 1 1
"""))

    n4 = Node(TextBox("""6 7 8 9
6 7 1 2
-------
1 1 0 0
"""))

    n.children.extend([n0, n1, n2, n3, n4])

    n00 = Node(TextBox("""1 2 3 4
1 2 3 4
-------
1 1 1 1
"""))

    n01 = Node(TextBox("""4 2 3 1
-------
1 1 1 1
"""))

    n0.children.extend([n00, n01])

    n20 = Node(TextBox("""3 4 5 6
3 4 5 6
-------
1 1 1 1
"""))

    n21 = Node(TextBox("""6 4 5 6
-------
1 1 1 1
"""))

    n2.children.extend([n20, n21])

    n40 = Node(TextBox("""6 7 8 9
-------
1 1 1 1
"""))

    n41 = Node(TextBox("""6 7 1 2
-------
1 1 1 1
"""))

    n4.children.extend([n40, n41])

    print n




From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Thu Jul 31 17:25:42 2003
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 17:25:42 -0400
Subject: Python's biggest compromises
References: <899f842.0307310555.56134f71@posting.google.com> <viibo7t45unv83@news.supernews.com> <87el06d2i6.fsf@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <vij2b7skfm9ud4@news.supernews.com>

"John J. Lee" <jjl at pobox.com> wrote in message
news:87el06d2i6.fsf at pobox.com...
> "John Roth" <newsgroups at jhrothjr.com> writes:
> [...]
> > That said, I've come to the conclusion that the editor should take
> > care of these things for you. If you prefer a brace free notation,
> > you should be able to tell your editor to present the program to you
> > that way. If you prefer braces, then it should be able do that for
> > you as well. That kind of stylistic thing doesn't belong in the
> > language.
>
> 100% agreed: once-and-only-once dictates this.  Manually maintaining
> both braces and indentation (as in C, with some editors) is Just Plain
> Bad for this reason.
>
>
> > In fact, if I didn't have to deal with the braces, I think I'd come
> > around to the view that the text should have them. Explicit is
> > better than implicit,
>
> At least in the absence of proper research results, I think this part
> of it *is* religious.  To some people, it's obvious that whitespace is
> better on the eyes.  To others, it's obvious that whitespace + braces
> is better on the eyes.  One group may well be wrong <0.5 wink>.
>
> This argument (that braces are another visual cue which make code
> easier to read -- provided that they're automatically maintained in
> sync with the indentation), is the only argument against
> pure-whitespace that has ever made any sense to me.

I believe there was quite a bit of research on this issue in ABC,
which was the research system that Guido learned on when he
was in university. One of the fallouts from that is the colon at the
end of block headers: it's syntactically unnecessary, but it does
seem to help the eyes.

I wouldn't characterize it as religious. Brains don't work the
way most people think they do, and if you've programmed yours
one way, it seems to depend on a proper choice of grandparents,
or the proper diet, or maybe the phase of the moon whether you'll
be comfortable changing it.

> Irrespective of
> whether you pick whitespace or braces as the thing the compiler takes
> notice of, though, the optimal solution probably still involves an
> editor that supports showing/hiding braces, so the syntax is
> (theoretically!) a non-issue.  In practice, editors don't seem to
> currently support showing and hiding braces automatically.  At least
> editors do get you out of most mistakes caused by brace-y languages.
>
> Of course, whitespace *is* still superior because the storage format
> doesn't duplicate state -- so people with poor editors can't produce
> ambiguous code :-) (remember code can be ambiguous to *people* even if
> it isn't to a compiler).  OTOH, *Python's* scheme is inferior to a
> pure-space-character indentation scheme because off the tab-vs.-space
> issue :-(

Well, that's been recognized as a problem for a long time. I believe
that the intention is to mandate spaces only in Python 3.0. On the
other hand, I'm not holding my breath waiting for Guido to decide
he's had enough 2.x releases and start work on 3.0 To be frank
about it, I don't see a crying need for 2.4 before 3.0,
and if he's after mind share, he's got both Ruby and the redesign
of Perl breathing down his neck. The new Perl regex package looks
nice! Three years ago, he didn't have any credible competition in
the high quality but easy to use scripting language arena. Now he
does.

> > and there are a few things that the
> > automatic indentation makes rather difficult in the design area.
> [...]
>
> What are those things??

Embedding Python in other languages, such as HTML, for
starters. It can be done, but it isn't pretty.

I've run across a couple of other places where I wished I
had braces, but they weren't important enough to stick in
my memory.

John Roth

>
>
> John





From donn at drizzle.com  Sun Jul 13 15:24:14 2003
From: donn at drizzle.com (Donn Cave)
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 19:24:14 -0000
Subject: anything like C++ references?
References: <000301c348c7$3c501980$21795418@dell1700> <iqm2hvs77lhe1m71v9b579070khbf0uv0a@4ax.com> <berqqd$ad5$1@panix3.panix.com> <brs2hv8edfv0d1fch9mha8otuulajnkh0g@4ax.com> <bes0ps$l6$1@panix3.panix.com> <qi13hv4s21i8mtr2e600jumm54hqs7tppu@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <1058124253.668436@yasure>

Quoth Stephen Horne <intentionally at blank.co.uk>:
| On 13 Jul 2003 12:19:08 -0400, aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) wrote:
|
|> Whether one can mutate a specific object is simply an
|> attribute of that object, rather than requiring a different syntax.
|> Trying to focus on the mutable/immutable distinction is what causes the
|> mental blowup -- keep your eye on the objects and bindings and you're
|> fine.
|
| That's exactly it - you have to focus on whether an object is mutable
| or immutable for that exact reason.
|
| While I admit I'm not sure, I believe that in early versions of Python
| immutable values literally were copied. Mutable types were made
| mutable because of efficiency concerns about copying overheads that
| would occur otherwise. If an object is large enough that it is
| worthwhile modifying items within it in-place then it tends to be
| worthwhile trying to avoid copying overheads, even though these two
| aspects of 'mutability' are actually quite distinct in principle.

Sure, mutable values literally are copied today.  If you have a tuple
of time.localtime(x), for example, and you want that value but with
tm_mday incremented, then you must copy the tuple to do that (except
for tm_mday, for which you substitute your own value.)  It is indeed
inefficient - OK for this purpose but not for large sequences, and
there we tend to prefer a mutable list.

That's the efficiency argument.  Assigment never copied values, in
any version of Python that anyone cared about.  We just don't want
big immutable arrays that have to be copied just to change a single
value.  There isn't a tuple analogue for the dictionary because it
wouldn't be so generally useful (the recently implemented struct
tuple would have been nice to have earlier, though.)

He's quite right, the notion of mutability is a red herring.  It
isn't that no one cares - the propagation of state changes in a
program is critical to the operation of the program, and to reasoning
about how the program will operate.

It's just that when you're trying to come to grips with how assignment
and argument passing works in Python, you don't want to have people
start explaining things in these terms (``see, this object is mutable
and that one isn't''), because you will understandably but incorrectly
apply that to assignment and argument passing.  Mutability in Python
has no effect on assignment and argument passing, it is just an attribute
of the passed or assigned object.

	Donn Cave, donn at drizzle.com



From Robert at AbilitySys.com  Tue Jul 15 00:01:06 2003
From: Robert at AbilitySys.com (Robert at AbilitySys.com)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 21:01:06 -0700
Subject: Stop Python from exiting upon error in Windows
References: <vh6jmv2f767h8b@corp.supernews.com> <n2o6hvcahk7dlmn9t26tvis8umnfg1tdeo@4ax.com> <3F136BEA.5B56562@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <vh6v443q2fjab3@corp.supernews.com>

Thanks! I'm getting closer to what I want, but it raises two questions:

1. Is there an IDLE keystroke to indent a block of code? (just putting try:
at the start of my program causes an error, expecting an indented block to
follow which is my entire program!)

2. Is there a way to tell the environment I'm running under (python
interpreter, IDLE window, or other)? I'd like to put a pause at the end of
my program if and only if I'm running under the python.exe DOS-like
program...

- Robert

"Peter Hansen" <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message
news:3F136BEA.5B56562 at engcorp.com...
> Tom Plunket wrote:
> >
> > Or- catch the error in your mainline, and do a sys.raw_input()
> > call on exception.
>
> Tom meant just "raw_input()", which is a builtin, rather than
> sys.raw_input which does not exist, of course.
>
> To answer your question in the other reply, yes, you can
> nest exceptions.  If you have a try/except and the raw_input
> in the except, however, you won't see any exception traceback
> printed at the console so you'll need something like the
> traceback module and one of the functions from it, like
> traceback.print_exc().
>
> -Peter





From imbosol at aerojockey.com  Sun Jul 27 22:22:59 2003
From: imbosol at aerojockey.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 02:22:59 GMT
Subject: floating point range generator
References: <Xns93B0F0F1A58A2cpl19ghumspamgourmet@62.153.159.134> <oA2Oa.30893$C83.2655519@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <7xwue3lbzy.fsf_-_@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <7O%Ua.8994$AO6.2045@nwrdny02.gnilink.net>

Paul Rubin wrote:
> I needed this for something I was doing just now.  It came out pretty
> enough that I thought I'd post it.  It's like xrange, except for floating
> point values.
> 
>    def frange(start, stop, step=1.0):
>        sign = cmp(0, step)
>        while cmp(start, stop) == sign:
>            yield start
>            start += step

It's a nice little iterator.  Three problems, though:

1. It can accumulate rounding errors
2. It can return an integer on the first iteration (minor)
3. The last iteration might not happen because of floating point
   uncertainties, even if rounding errors are minimized

A more robust version would look something like this (but it still has
problem #3):

    def frange(start, stop, step=1.0):
        sign = cmp(0,step)
	for i in xrange(sys.maxint):
            v = start+i*step
	    if cmp(v,stop) != sign:
                break
            yield v

The most robust way to handle this is to iterpolate, i.e., instead of
passing start, stop, and step, pass start, stop, and n_intervals:

   def interiter(start, stop, n_intervals):
       diff = stop - start
       for i in xrange(n_intervals+1):
           yield start + (i*diff)/n_intervals

An IEEE 754 (whatever) geek can probably point out even more accurate
ways to do these.


-- 
CARL BANKS



From mday at apple.com  Wed Jul 30 20:42:54 2003
From: mday at apple.com (Mark Day)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 17:42:54 -0700
Subject: reading in lines from a file  -FAST!
References: <pan.2003.07.30.15.02.20.359182.15518@presidency.com>
Message-ID: <300720031742549961%mday@apple.com>

In article <pan.2003.07.30.15.02.20.359182.15518 at presidency.com>,
Rajarshi Guha <rajarshi at presidency.com> wrote:

> Hi
>  I have a file containing 168092 lines (each line a single word) and when
> I use
> 
> for line in f:
>   s = s + line
> 
> it takes for ages to read it all in - so long in fact that it makes the
> program unusable. Is there any way to do something like C's fread in
> Python so that I can just slurp in 1.7MB of data at one go, rather than
> reading line by line?

How about:
    s = f.read()
(assuming f is a file object)

-Mark



From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Jul 17 11:06:17 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 11:06:17 -0400
Subject: Co-routines
References: <g7xRa.305$fF.9914@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au> <3F16A34A.5742F54F@engcorp.com> <pBxRa.308$fF.9875@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au>
Message-ID: <3F16BB69.660AEDC3@engcorp.com>

thewrights at ozemail.com.au wrote:
> 
> From the python grammar:
> 
>     funcdef    ::= "def" funcname "(" [parameter_list] ")" ":" suite
> 
> I want the statements in <suite> to be executed on a statement by statement
> basis, with no particular restrictions on *what* those statements are. It's
> the execution stepping I'm interested in... the I/O in my example was just
> that. I understand that there will be all the problems on contention/race
> etc (just like if the functions were going in separate threads)

Okay, that's clear.  It can't be done.  :-)  Now on to the next step:
what are you actually trying to do.  That is, *why* do you want the 
behaviour you say you want?  That might give us a few ideas about what
can really be done.

Basically, what you describe would require the interpretation of 
Python at a higher level than it is interpreted now.  It is actually
*compiled* code, turned from source (the lines you refer to) into
bytecodes, which are effectively machine code for the Python virtual 
machine.  It is at the level of bytecodes that one might actually
start to get the control you're talking about.

Another approach would be if you reduced the problem from arbitrary
statements to some kind of subset.  Maybe evaluation of expressions
only, without loops or most statements?  Of course, that might be 
far too limited for you, but you haven't said why you want to do this
yet.  If you could take that approach, you would basically retrieve
the source line by line and pass it to "exec" or maybe eval().

You could also just define your own mini-language, and write an
interpreter for that which has the behaviour you need.

Or, depending again on why you want all this, you could require 
construction of the code using generators or something, as others
are suggesting.

-Peter



From amk at amk.ca  Wed Jul  9 16:17:19 2003
From: amk at amk.ca (A.M. Kuchling)
Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 15:17:19 -0500
Subject: Sample Web application (Re: Python vs PHP)
References: <mailman.1057574470.1750.python-list@python.org> <kmolgv4mp12o71ocion7ra0m2s9fcrqjdk@4ax.com> <begc78$rui$1@mawar.singnet.com.sg> <VLicnfImRJLPkpGiRTvUqA@speakeasy.net> <behc69$o3t$1@news1.wdf.sap-ag.de> <mailman.1057772055.6056.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <tYqcnZji2bzS5ZGiRTvUqg@speakeasy.net>

On 09 Jul 2003 12:34:46 -0500, 
	Ian Bicking <ianb at colorstudy.com> wrote:
> One of the big problems I also had was installation.  Many of the
> frameworks require non-trivial Apache configuration, which hinders
> experimentation.  Actually solving this is significant work, though --
> but also something which very much deserves solving.

Why?  The purpose is to let users compare the structure of applications, not
benchmarking.  I envision users browsing the code for each framework, never
running anything until they've selected a framework and begun implementing
an application.   Solving web server configuration problems is out of scope.

--amk







From tracer at axiomfire.com  Mon Jul 28 14:41:42 2003
From: tracer at axiomfire.com (Tracy Ruggles)
Date: 28 Jul 2003 11:41:42 -0700
Subject: Fastest way to count your iterations?
Message-ID: <a9e86706.0307281041.395e3bc8@posting.google.com>

If you're writing a simple script and you want to give an update of
its progress...  Is this the fastest way to do it (assuming that what
you're iterating through is very, very long and the time to process
each item is relatively short)...

<code>

def counter(items, f, sep=1000):
	i = 0
	for item in items:
		f(item)
		i += 1
		if i % sep == 0:
			print i

</code>

[ is the modulus operator the quickest way to find out if you're
really at the 1000th item? ]

--T



From dkuhlman at rexx.com  Fri Jul 18 20:17:28 2003
From: dkuhlman at rexx.com (Dave Kuhlman)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 17:17:28 -0700
Subject: Documentation examples needed
References: <aUnRa.16108$o54.11296@lakeread05> <2259b0e2.0307170455.31ae2e11@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bfa2mp$ctqne$1@ID-139865.news.uni-berlin.de>

Michele Simionato wrote:

> "Stuart D. Gathman" <stuart at bmsi.com> wrote in message
> news:<aUnRa.16108$o54.11296 at lakeread05>...
>> I am still wanting to produce Python standard format
>> documentation for
>> Python extensions I have written.  I have looked at the docs that
>> come with Python itself, but I am new to Latex, and don't know
>> how to add the document classes and styles from texinput for a
>> new project.
>> 
>> Is there a small project with documentation in the Python
>> standard that I can use as an example?
> 
> Dave Kuhlman reported on the docutils mailing list that it was
> working on a docutils writer to produce standard Python
> documentation.
> 
>    http://www.rexx.com/~dkuhlman/#docutilsdocpy

Right.  This extension to Docutils makes it easy to generate LaTeX
files for input to the Python LaTeX documentation system.  This
method enables you to write reStructuredText (reST) documents,
which have *minimal* mark-up, then translate them into LaTeX
documents. Use this and you may be able to avoid learning LaTeX,
which might *not* be a good thing.  Also be aware, that this
method lacks features that are supported by LaTeX mark-up
described in "Documenting Python".

Here are updated links:

    http://www.rexx.com/~dkuhlman/#docutils_pythonlatex
    http://www.rexx.com/~dkuhlman/rstpythonlatex_intro.html
    http://www.rexx.com/~dkuhlman/rstpythonlatex-1.0b.zip

I've also written a document about how to set yourself up for
processing documents with the Python LaTeX documentation system
and the above mentioned reST-to-Python-LaTeX translator..
You can find it here:

    http://www.rexx.com/~dkuhlman/#pythonlatexsetup
    http://www.rexx.com/~dkuhlman/pythonlatexsetup.html
    http://www.rexx.com/~dkuhlman/pythonlatexsetup.zip

Comments are welcome.

  - Dave

-- 
Dave Kuhlman
http://www.rexx.com/~dkuhlman
dkuhlman at rexx.com



From mpeuser at web.de  Tue Jul 22 04:46:03 2003
From: mpeuser at web.de (Michael Peuser)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 10:46:03 +0200
Subject: Spinning OpenGL.Tk graphics
Message-ID: <bfitk2$ule$01$1@news.t-online.com>

Python's OpenGL.Tk binding makes simple 3D drawing a snap! The default mouse
keys for  panning and sizing is left and right, for rotation it seems to be
the middle key which is on just very few people's mouse nowadays.

Of course I tried obvious and not so obvious shift/alt/contrl/mouse
combinations- without any success.
Is there a work-around? The docu for the binding is somewhat obscure and one
has to guess a lot ;-) I haven't figured out yet how to use AutoSpin ....
I am using Windows2000

Thanks for suggestions and may be hints to more detailed documentation.

Michael





From _NOSPAM_nabugoon at moor.pe.kr_NOSPAM_  Wed Jul 30 11:36:16 2003
From: _NOSPAM_nabugoon at moor.pe.kr_NOSPAM_ (nabugoon)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 00:36:16 +0900
Subject: gnome applet with python
Message-ID: <pan.2003.07.30.15.36.15.886592@moor.pe.kr_NOSPAM_>

Hi all.

I'm trying to write gnome applet program with python.
But, it is too difficult to find any document about that.
One web page I had found was old.
(http://www.onlamp.com/pub/a/python/2000/07/25/gnome_applet.html?page=2)
There is no AppletWidget attribute anymore and 'Gtk' prefix at gtk module 
functions

Please let me know some sample code or website about that.

TIA.



From jzgoda at gazeta.usun.pl  Wed Jul 23 16:29:32 2003
From: jzgoda at gazeta.usun.pl (Jarek Zgoda)
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 20:29:32 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Design tool
References: <3f1e985d$0$236@hades.is.co.za> <xqxy8yprres.fsf@cola2.ca.boeing.com> <bKBTa.22352$On.2762320@twister.nyc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <bfmr7c$im1$1@nemesis.news.tpi.pl>

max <max at nospam.com> pisze:
 
>> Personally, I use Dia:
>> http://www.lysator.liu.se/~alla/dia/
>> 
>> Some people use argo (which I find slow).  
> 
> .. but work on windoze...

All work on Windows (ArgoUML is Java application).

-- 
Jarek Zgoda
Registered Linux User #-1
http://www.zgoda.biz/ JID:zgoda at chrome.pl http://zgoda.jogger.pl/



From gh at ghaering.de  Wed Jul 23 10:56:16 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 16:56:16 +0200
Subject: How to link a C extension module on Mac OS X?
In-Reply-To: <ef08387c.0307230528.441883e1@posting.google.com>
References: <ef08387c.0307230528.441883e1@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3F1EA210.7050900@ghaering.de>

Fortepianissimo wrote:
> Just started learning how to write a C extension module on Mac OS X.
> Here is a simple module taken from Programming Python: [...]
> ld: Undefined symbols:
> _PyArg_Parse
> _Py_BuildValue
> _Py_InitModule4
> /usr/bin/libtool: internal link edit command failed
> 
> This is Mac OS X 10.2.6 with latest Fink installed. I guess the fetal
> one is the ld reporting undefined symbols. Any tip? Thx.

Two words: Use distutils.

-- Gerhard




From jacek at jacek  Thu Jul 17 08:51:13 2003
From: jacek at jacek (=?iso-8859-2?Q?Jacek_Potrymaj=B3o?=)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 14:51:13 +0200
Subject: python.dll
Message-ID: <3f169c26$1@newspilot.put.poznan.pl>

Hi,

I have a question about python installing. I try to install program which
require Python 2.2. I installed this version of python software, but when I
try to install software which use Python I have an error - incorrect version
of python.dll is installed. I'm not a python specialist but I have to use it
for this program. Answer me please if I have to set  some environment
variables for use python? I have windows XP version. I will be gratefull for
help.

regards

Jacek Potrymaj?o




From akaihola at ambi-no-spam-to-tone.com  Mon Jul 28 06:41:11 2003
From: akaihola at ambi-no-spam-to-tone.com (Antti Kaihola)
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 13:41:11 +0300
Subject: locale.py strangeness
References: <bbvhsn$csvho$1@ID-195815.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <pan.2003.07.28.10.41.10.472837@ambi-no-spam-to-tone.com>

Sun, 08 Jun 2003 16:44:25 +0200, Torsten Marek wrote:
> I experienced some strange behaviour with locale.py from Python 2.2.3.

So did I.

When using an LC_COLLATE locale (I've tested fi_FI and en_US),
locale.strcoll returns surprising (non-zero!) values when comparing
accented characters to the corresponding un-accented ones.  Here's the
result of my test:

              None     fi_FI     en_US needed
              None ISO8859-1 ISO8859-1       
strcoll(?, A)    1         4         4      4
strcoll(?, e)    1     [*] 1     [*] 3      0
strcoll(?, ?)    0         0         0      0
strcoll(?, ?)   -1       -24       -10    -10
strcoll(?, o)    1       -10       -10    -10
strcoll(?, z)    1       -21       -21    -21
strcoll(?, A)    1        28        14     14
strcoll(?, e)    1        24        10     10
strcoll(?, ?)    1        24        10     10
strcoll(?, ?)    0         0         0      0
strcoll(?, o)    1        14     [*] 9      0 
strcoll(?, z)    1         3       -11    -11

I've marked the strange lines with [*].  In the en_US locale,
why doesn't strcoll return zero when comparing accented characters
to the corresponding un-accented ones?  The fi_FI locale should also
do that for "e acute".

The first column shows strcoll results before I touch the LC_COLLATE
locale.  The next two columns show the results with the Finnish and
US English locales, and the last column is what I need for my
application.

Note that the distance from an accented and an un-accented character
to another character is identical (e.g. ?-e and ?-? in the table).
So, amazingly, the distances don't match:
>>> assert strcoll('X', 'i') - strcoll('X', 'j') == strcoll('j', 'i')
>>> assert strcoll('X', 'e') - strcoll('X', '?') == strcoll('?', 'e')
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
AssertionError

Accented characters share the same distance to their un-accented cousins
as some other un-accented characters:
>>> from locale import * ; setlocale(LC_COLLATE, 'en_US')
'en_US'
>>> strcoll('?', 'e'), strcoll('h', 'e')
3 3
>>> strcoll('x', 'o'), strcoll('?', 'o')
9 9
>>> setlocale(LC_COLLATE, 'fi_FI')
'fi_FI'
>>> strcoll('f', 'e'), strcoll('?', 'e')
1 1


See http://akaihola.iki.fi/comp/python/strcoll for the code, including a
work-around based on earlier discussions I've found on this newsgroup.




From t_therkelsen at hotmail.com  Thu Jul 10 16:33:47 2003
From: t_therkelsen at hotmail.com (Troels Therkelsen)
Date: 10 Jul 2003 20:33:47 GMT
Subject: sort() doesn't work on dist.keys() ?
References: <6cd58b6.0307101214.34e99f2a@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <slrnbgrjd9.dk.t_therkelsen@abattoir.2-10.org>

In article <6cd58b6.0307101214.34e99f2a at posting.google.com>, Steve Pinard wrote:
> (Got a comm error trying to post first time, sorry if this
> is a duplicate)
> 
> New to Python, so please bear with me.
> 
>>>> import sys
>>>> print sys.modules.keys()          # works fine
> ['code', ...snip... ]
>>>> print sys.modules.keys().sort()   # returns None, why?
> None
> 
> According to my reference (Nutshell), keys() returns a
> "copy" of the dict keys as a list, so I would expect when
> I aply sort() to that list, I would get an in-place sorted
> version of that list.  Why do I get None?

>From the documentation of the mutable sequence sort() method, note (7):

   "The sort() and reverse() methods modify the list in place for
    economy of space when sorting or reversing a large list. To remind
    you that they operate by side effect, they don't return the sorted
    or reversed list."

Or, in other words, sort() always returns None.  If you want to sort, you
need to bind a name to the list you want to sort, first, then call sort() on 
it and then print the now sorted list. For example:

   sys_keys = sys.modules.keys()
   sys_keys.sort()
   print sys_keys

Hope this helps,

Troels Therkelsen




From gumuz*NOSP at M*looze.net  Thu Jul 24 20:46:08 2003
From: gumuz*NOSP at M*looze.net (Guyon Morée)
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 02:46:08 +0200
Subject: I am so impressed
Message-ID: <3f207dcc$0$137$1b62eedf@news.wanadoo.nl>

I've been looking for a nice python editor for a while. I was using a great
general purpose editor called EditPlus. It did the job pretty good....

I've now downloaded Eclipse with the TruStudio plug-ins from www.xored.com
and it's great!

i had to share that with you


guyon





From elf at drizzle.com  Tue Jul  1 14:39:04 2003
From: elf at drizzle.com (Elf M. Sternberg)
Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 11:39:04 -0700
Subject: Python's CGI and Javascripts uriEncode: A disconnect.
Message-ID: <m3smpqw0qf.fsf@drizzle.com>

It's all Netscape's fault.

RFC 2396 (URI Specifications) specifies that a space shall be encoded
using %20 and the plus symbol is always safe.  Netscape (and possibly 
even earlier browsers like Mosaic) used the plus symbol '+' as a
substitute for the space in the last part of the URI, arguments to the
object referenced (you know, all the stuff after the question mark in
a URL).

The ECMA-262 "Javascript" standard now supported by both Netscape and
Internet Explorer honor RFC 2396, translating spaces into their hex
equivalent %20 and leaving pluses alone.

The Python library cgi.FieldStorage decodes it backwards, expecting
pluses to be spaces and %2b to represent pluses.  This behavior is
present even in python 2.2, and arguably helps support older browsers.
But when web applications are heavily javascript-dependent, this can
cause major headaches.  

Other than override cgi.FieldStorage's parse_qsl, is there anyway to
fix this disconnect?

        Elf



From usenet_spam at janc.invalid  Sat Jul  5 22:38:19 2003
From: usenet_spam at janc.invalid (JanC)
Date: Sun, 06 Jul 2003 02:38:19 GMT
Subject: Frustration with spurious posts.
References: <mailman.1057420812.18141.python-list@python.org> <3F06FD11.967D8D8A@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <Xns93B02F2F82A37JanC@213.119.4.244>

Alan Kennedy <alanmk at hotmail.com> schreef:

> Bringing an end to the problem would probably involve a fairly
> substantial admin effort on the part of the python.org admins.

No, it's the admins that run an antivirus on their mail server or the users 
that use broken anti-virus/anti-spam tools that should fix their system.  
It's plain stupid and irresponsible to bounce or send a mail back to a 
*forged* and often randomly shuffled "From:" address, doubling or tripling 
the mail traffic generated by the virus itself.  :-(

(I have even seen one system "bouncing" virus mails with the attachment 
included, sending the virus to an innocent user...)

-- 
JanC

"Be strict when sending and tolerant when receiving."
RFC 1958 - Architectural Principles of the Internet - section 3.9



From wettering at comcast.net  Sat Jul 12 15:40:56 2003
From: wettering at comcast.net (Mark VandeWettering)
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 19:40:56 GMT
Subject: Collective memory
References: <mailman.1057083728.8224.python-list@python.org> <vg88va53uha8e@corp.supernews.com> <3F09F136.6060000@srv.net> <3F0B2857.6EE3A30F@ev1.net> <1fxw51u.2b4m6zc39wulN%proto@panix.com> <slrnbgt6ls.ab5.abigail@alexandra.abigail.nl> <vgvth12c4qoma7@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <slrnbh0p28.uj.wettering@keck.vandewettering.net>

In article <vgvth12c4qoma7 at news.supernews.com>, John Roth wrote:

>> Nope. That's a reason why code colouring is evil. If you write code,
>> and it isn't clear what you mean without the use of code colouring,
>> you did something wrong. Your code shouldn't rely on a specific code
>> colouring scheme to be understandable.
> 
> This assumes that someone reading the code is going to be using
> a brain-dead editor. We need to get beyond that some day, and
> assume that people are going to be using decent tools.

I don't use code coloring editors for a number of reasons.  

1. Code coloring makes code harder to read.  There are two obvious choices to
   pick for the background color of text editors: white and black.  Against 
   a white background, only darker colors have contrast.  Against black, only
   lighter ones do.  This drastically limits the number of colors that you can
   use.  

   Recently my place of employment changed the default vi that people use to
   perform syntax coloring.  The result: my comments became dark red against a 
   black background.  Some other class of keywords mapped to magenta and dark
   blue.  About 30 seconds of it made me want to gouge my eyes out.

2. Code coloring is almost always done on the basis of a syntactic basis.  
   Call me silly, but I've never found problems with syntax to be very 
   confusing.  Other features of advanced editors like class browsers and the
   like are useful because they relay some information which may not be 
   obvious from context, but that never seems to be a problem with syntax.

3. Good programming style allows you to read programs from top to bottom. 
   Syntax coloring encourages you to skip around by distracting the eye to
   other parts.  It's similar to the overuse of font changes in the written
   word: it is a poor visual style.

4. Some people are color blind.  Syntax coloring may not benefit them to 
   any significant degree.

I doubt anyone will find this arguments convincing, as this tends to be a bit
of a religious argument, but the problem isn't just one of tools: I have 
access to such tools, I merely find them useless.


> John Roth



From jar at mminternet.com  Tue Jul 29 13:22:51 2003
From: jar at mminternet.com (james roush)
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 10:22:51 -0700
Subject: Trustudio plugin for Eclipse IDE
Message-ID: <MPG.19904d4257bd4f579896bb@news.mminternet.com>

I've been trying, without success, to download the Trustudio plugin for 
the Eclipse IDE.  I've been trying to get it from 
http://www.xored.com/download.php.  

Has anyone gotten it from somewhere else?
-- 
-----------------------
James A Roush
jar @ mminternet.com
-----------------------



From paulpaterson at users.sourceforge.net  Sun Jul 27 20:20:48 2003
From: paulpaterson at users.sourceforge.net (Paul Paterson)
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 00:20:48 GMT
Subject: How safe is modifying locals()?
In-Reply-To: <bg10ic$2l1$0@216.39.172.122>
References: <BDcUa.100193$XV.6037947@twister.austin.rr.com>	 <MvCdnTkcoJNP_7yiXTWJjw@comcast.com>	 <WMdUa.100343$XV.6044659@twister.austin.rr.com> <mailman.1059173799.17228.python-list@python.org> <ZqlUa.102243$XV.6096809@twister.austin.rr.com> <bfttd5$gtc$1@online.de> <Y_wUa.103853$XV.6162947@twister.austin.rr.com> <bfutsf$flc$0@216.39.172.122> <3TIUa.107401$XV.6252339@twister.austin.rr.com> <bg10ic$2l1$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <A%ZUa.111501$XV.6353593@twister.austin.rr.com>

Bengt Richter wrote:

> On Sun, 27 Jul 2003 04:51:11 GMT, Paul Paterson <paulpaterson at users.sourceforge.net> wrote:
> 
> [...]
> 
> 
>>To my eye, the [:] or [0] spelling of this makes the code look more 
>>complex than necessary, but I think you are on to something because if 
>>you spell it,
>>
>>def change(x, y):
>>   x = 'new x'
>>   y.update('new y')
>>
> 
> 
> For a general pointer, ISTM you want to be able to dereference it for both getting and setting.
> The [:] or [0] syntax gets you that, and you could do it with p() for getting and p(val) for setting,
> or p.getval() and p.update(), but all these get clumsy when you want to use the "pointer" on
> both sides of an assignment statement, e.g.,
> 
>     p.update(p.getval()+' added text for target')
> 
> where you could write more readably (IMO),
> 
>     p.value = p.value + 'added text for target'

Yes, this feels right. Visually you have only one element to recognize 
(p.value) which makes it not much more complex than the original code. A 
single search and replace could also get rid of the pointer semantics if 
it was later decided that they were not required.

> 
> or
>     p.v += 'added text for target'
> 
> 
> Below is a class PNS that lets you spell as immediately above, using .value
> (and .v for concise use) bound to a property that implements the accessing of
> what's pointed/referred to. I gave it a somewhat informative __repr__ method also,
> so the test prints better. As you will note, this is now separate from any particular
> name space. Any object that supports getattr and/or setattr can be used. I also
> threw in a permissions parameter to control read/write/delete. See nsother and math
> in examples. Note also that a pointer may point to another pointer, allowing cascaded
> dereferencing spelled p.v.v etc.
> 
> 
>>with the relevant changes to the Ptr class then it could certainly grow 
>>on me. The things I like are,
>>
>>- no new variable names in the 'change' function so it looks similar to 
>>the original code
>>- the mechanism for propogating changes to the caller scope is explicit
>>- 'y' can be passed on to another function if needed and things are 
>>still clear
>>
>>eg,
>>
>>def change(x, y):
>>    x = 'new x'
>>    change2(y)
>>
>>def change2(y):
>>    y.update('deep change in y')
>>
> 
> If you use PNS, that will be spelled
> 
>  def change(x, y):
>       x = 'new x'
>       change2(y)
>  
>  def change2(y):
>       y.value = 'deep change in y'

Looks good!

<snip PNS code + tests>

I like this a lot - it is much clearer than a bare namespace when you 
start passing these things around. In fact, I don't think the namespace 
can actually work in the change/change2 example above. Consider,

def change(x, y):
    x = 'new x'
    change2(y)

def change2(z):
    z = 'deep change to y'

Using the bare namespace you would have to pass ns to 'change' and then 
address 'y' as ns.y ... but then when you pass it to change2 it has to 
be called z, but you can't call it ns.z ...

Using the pointer system (or sisters?!) you pass the "pointer" and then 
always refer to it as localname.value. Neat!

I'm not sure if I would recommend this in general but for my application 
it seems to be a nice approach.

> 
>>Thanks for these thoughts and the time it took to post them, they really 
>>made me think! (I mean that in a good way, of course ;) )
>>
> 
> You're welcome. Hope this adds another useful angle.

Absolutely! Thanks again.

Paul




From postmaster at gensym.com  Tue Jul  1 18:39:07 2003
From: postmaster at gensym.com (System Administrator)
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 18:39:07 -0400 
Subject: Undeliverable: Re: Application
Message-ID: <6AA1CFDDE237D51190160000F805064D038F7C8E@hqmail.gensym.com>

Your message

  To:      bhyde at gensym.com
  Subject: Re: Application
  Sent:    Tue, 1 Jul 2003 20:38:31 -0400

did not reach the following recipient(s):

bhyde at gensym.com on Tue, 1 Jul 2003 18:39:06 -0400
    The recipient name is not recognized
	The MTS-ID of the original message is: c=US;a=
;p=Gensym;l=HQMAIL0307012238N4PJN1NK
    MSEXCH:IMS:Gensym:HQSITE:HQMAIL 0 (000C05A6) Unknown Recipient


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From cybersamurai at mac.com  Fri Jul  4 08:40:33 2003
From: cybersamurai at mac.com (Luiz Siqueira Neto)
Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 09:40:33 -0300
Subject: Form using HTML on PythonCard
Message-ID: <200307040940.33236.cybersamurai@mac.com>

Somebody know how make html forms or python forms inside html to use as gui 
application? 

The idea is make a client application like a web site of my interprise for 
customers who don't have good connection, in this way the customer can select 
the products off line and connect only to execute the shop. The use of HTML 
is to have the same paradigm to application and to site.




From staschuk at telusplanet.net  Tue Jul  1 15:35:22 2003
From: staschuk at telusplanet.net (Steven Taschuk)
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 13:35:22 -0600
Subject: how to register private python codecs?
In-Reply-To: <bds5b5$106o43$1@ID-89407.news.dfncis.de>; from garabik-news-2002-02@kassiopeia.juls.savba.sk on Tue, Jul 01, 2003 at 02:20:21PM +0000
References: <bds5b5$106o43$1@ID-89407.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <20030701133522.A16070@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>

Quoth Radovan Garabik:
  [...]
> Is there a (simple) way how to register this encoding so that the
> file "kamenicky.py" can be in (let's say) current directory?

See codecs.register().

-- 
Steven Taschuk              Aral: "Confusion to the enemy, boy."
staschuk at telusplanet.net    Mark: "Turn-about is fair play, sir."
                             -- _Mirror Dance_, Lois McMaster Bujold




From mcherm at mcherm.com  Tue Jul  1 17:30:57 2003
From: mcherm at mcherm.com (Michael Chermside)
Date: Tue,  1 Jul 2003 14:30:57 -0700
Subject: Identity inconsistency and unification of types and classes
Message-ID: <1057095057.3f01fd917de67@mcherm.com>

Rim writes:
> With the great unification of types and classes, what will happen to the
> following identity inconsistency?
> 
> >>> class myint(int): pass
> ... 
> >>> a=int(1); b=int(1)
> >>> a is b
> 1
> >>> a=myint(1); b=myint(1)
> >>> a is b 
> 0

In all likelihood it will remain as it is. The current behavior is NOT what you 
think it is. For instance:

    ActivePython 2.2.1 Build 222 (ActiveState Corp.) based on
    Python 2.2.1 (#34, Apr 15 2002, 09:51:39) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
    Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
    >>> a = int(32000)
    >>> b = int(32000)
    >>> a is b
    0

The *actual* rule is this: if two objects x and y are not immutable, then
"x is y" will be false. Normally, you would want to use "x == y" instead,
to see if two objects were equal, but if what you REALLY want to know is
whether they will CONTINUE to be equal if one gets changed, then that's
what "is" is used for. (Plus occasionally for performance reasons, and
in the idiom "x is None", which isn't really any different from "x == None"
except if you redefine None, which you shouldn't do.)

For IMMUTABLE objects, there's no reason to EVER need "x is y"... since
you can't change either one, "x == y" will tell you whatever you need to
know. Thus Python is allowed to have "x is y" return either true OR
false, as an optimization. Programmers shouldn't rely on the result 
(except, as always, if you really know what you're doing). Right now,
Python allows "is" to return true between strings that are very short
and strings that appear in the source code, but sometimes not between
strings that are constructed at runtime. For integers, "is" will return
true between numbers in the range [-1..99], and may return false for 
numbers outside that range. Both of these rules are specific optimizations
and may change without warning.

What you CAN assume is that if you create a mutable subclass of int (why
would you do such a thing?), that "is" will return false on different
instances. If your subclass is immutable, you can't assume anything.

-- Michael Chermside




From ny_r_marquez at yahoo.com  Mon Jul 28 10:25:38 2003
From: ny_r_marquez at yahoo.com (R.Marquez)
Date: 28 Jul 2003 07:25:38 -0700
Subject: Seeing next character in an file
References: <CDFUa.42241$wk4.27296@twister.nyroc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <8a27e309.0307280625.1f45adb3@posting.google.com>

Grumfish <nobody at nowhere.com> wrote in message news:<CDFUa.42241$wk4.27296 at twister.nyroc.rr.com>...
> Is there a way to see the next character of an input file object without 
> advancing the position in the file?

Here is a little class that I use on a little html parser that I
wrote.  You may be able to adjust it for your needs:

class Characters:
    def __init__(self, String):
        self.Characters=String
        self.Char = ""
        self.index = 0
        self.lenght = len(self.Characters)

    def GetNextChar(self):
        skipchar = 1
        while skipchar ==1:
            try:
                self.Char = self.Characters[self.index]
            except IndexError:
                self.Char = None
                #print "End of File\n"
                return None
            self.index += 1
            if self.Char != "\n":
                skipchar = 0
        return self.Char

    def CheckNextChar(self):
        skipchar = 1
        StartChar = self.Char
        StartIndex = self.index
        while skipchar ==1:
            try:
                self.Char = self.Characters[self.index]
            except IndexError:
                self.Char = None
                #print "End of File\n"
                return None
            self.index += 1
            if self.Char != "\n":
                skipchar = 0
        self.index = StartIndex
        NextChar = self.Char
        self.Char = StartChar
        return NextChar



From andreas at andreas-jung.com  Fri Jul  4 04:30:56 2003
From: andreas at andreas-jung.com (Andreas Jung)
Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 10:30:56 +0200
Subject: enumerate example
In-Reply-To: <be3akm$khf$2@news.rol.ru>
References: <be3akm$khf$2@news.rol.ru>
Message-ID: <2147483647.1057314656@[192.168.0.100]>

for num ,item in enumerate( ['a','b','c']):
    print num, item

0 a
1 b
2 c

--On Freitag, 4. Juli 2003 18:19 Uhr +1100 Egor Bolonev <ebolonev at rol.ru> 
wrote:

> Hello, All!
>
> Any useful example for enumerate, please.
>
> With best regards, Egor Bolonev.  E-mail: ebolonev at rol.ru [ru eo en]
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list








From ngps at netmemetic.com  Wed Jul  9 02:20:24 2003
From: ngps at netmemetic.com (Ng Pheng Siong)
Date: 9 Jul 2003 06:20:24 GMT
Subject: Python vs PHP
References: <mailman.1057574470.1750.python-list@python.org> <kmolgv4mp12o71ocion7ra0m2s9fcrqjdk@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <begc78$rui$1@mawar.singnet.com.sg>

According to Afanasiy  <abelikov72 at hotmail.com>:
> Python web development is fragmented. 

www.waferproject.org:

  Wafer is a research project which compares the many open source web
  application frameworks which are available using a common example
  application. This research project is designed to compare the application
  frameworks on a level field by specifying an example application so that
  the application features become irrelevent and the merits of each
  framework becomes the focus.

Java ones only.


-- 
Ng Pheng Siong <ngps at netmemetic.com> 

http://firewall.rulemaker.net  -+- Manage Your Firewall Rulebase Changes
http://www.post1.com/home/ngps -+- Open Source Python Crypto & SSL



From bh at intevation.de  Tue Jul 15 05:18:18 2003
From: bh at intevation.de (Bernhard Herzog)
Date: 15 Jul 2003 11:18:18 +0200
Subject: Python Mystery Theatre -- Episode 2:  =?iso-8859-1?q?As=ED?=
  Fue
References: <VorQa.15236$Kw1.587@nwrdny02.gnilink.net> <8f35dab2.0307141258.3da9b9d4@posting.google.com> <PGJQa.485$LW3.252@nwrdny02.gnilink.net>
Message-ID: <6qvfu4jgh1.fsf@salmakis.intevation.de>

"Raymond Hettinger" <vze4rx4y at verizon.net> writes:

> [Jason Trowbridge]
> > Act I
> > I didn't know that python formatting could do that!  I've always
> > treated it like C's printf-style of statements, as that seems to be
> > what it's primarily based off.
> 
> That's why this one was included.
> Hope everyone learned something new.

C's printf can do this too. At least the one in the GNU libc can. It's
docs don't say anything about this being a GNU extension so I guess it
can be found in other libcs as well, though probably not in all.

   Bernhard

-- 
Intevation GmbH                                 http://intevation.de/
Sketch                                 http://sketch.sourceforge.net/
MapIt!                                           http://www.mapit.de/



From Robert at AbilitySys.com  Tue Jul 15 00:02:01 2003
From: Robert at AbilitySys.com (Robert at AbilitySys.com)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 21:02:01 -0700
Subject: Stop Python from exiting upon error in Windows
References: <vh6jmv2f767h8b@corp.supernews.com> <n2o6hvcahk7dlmn9t26tvis8umnfg1tdeo@4ax.com> <pan.2003.07.15.03.21.44.980226@zexcite.zcom>
Message-ID: <vh6v5rhnm52iea@corp.supernews.com>

I hear ya. That's what I'm doing at the moment to spot something, but I
wanted to "polish" the program a little...

- Robert

"Conrad" <zneptune321 at zexcite.zcom> wrote in message
news:pan.2003.07.15.03.21.44.980226 at zexcite.zcom...
> Years ago, Nostradamus predicted that on Mon, 14 Jul 2003 20:06:14 -0700,
> Tom Plunket would write, saying:
>
> > Robert wrote:
> >
> >> How can I stop the Python interpreter from exiting when an error
occurs?
> >
> > create a batchfile, tell Windows that the association of Python
> > files is to that batch file, and put this in the file:
> >
> > python.exe %1
> > pause
> >
> >
> > Or- catch the error in your mainline, and do a sys.raw_input()
> > call on exception.
> >
> > -tom!
>
> Or the third, and admittedly brute force solution
> I use is to fire up the DOS shell, (click on START,
> then RUN, then type "command"). Depending on which
> Win you're running, you may want to run DOSKEY,
> which lets you cursor back up to previous commands.
>
> Once you've got the command window up (and doskeyed),
> cd to your python source directory, and type in
> something like *C:\python22\python.exe mypythonfile.py*
> (leave out the *s and be sure python is in the same
> place on your machine.)
>
> This doesn't keep the python interpreter from exiting,
> but it does keep the DOS window open to let you see
> your error messages.
>
> I admit it's ugly, but hey, I mostly develop in
> FreeBSD and Linux, where the CLI is your buddy ;-)
>
> Conrad
>
>





From tdelaney at avaya.com  Mon Jul 21 20:54:03 2003
From: tdelaney at avaya.com (Delaney, Timothy C (Timothy))
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 10:54:03 +1000
Subject: recognizing empty iterators
Message-ID: <338366A6D2E2CA4C9DAEAE652E12A1DE8D4276@au3010avexu1.global.avaya.com>

> From: Bengt Richter [mailto:bokr at oz.net]
>
> If iterators had a .peek() method for 1-item lookahead, maybe 
> that would
> be easy to implement. If empty, it could raise StopIteration, 
> and otherwise
> return what next() would return, without disturbing the state 
> w.r.t. next().

So create an iterator that has a `peek` method, and wrap all iterators in that. Easy!

Tim Delaney




From claird at lairds.com  Sun Jul 27 06:40:53 2003
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 10:40:53 -0000
Subject: Floyd-Warshall Algorithem in Python
References: <c0b257f5.0307262000.11178c98@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <vi7b1l27esb865@corp.supernews.com>

In article <c0b257f5.0307262000.11178c98 at posting.google.com>,
Dave <firehawk at yifan.net> wrote:
>Hello, 
>
>I'm looking for a Floyd-Warshall Python implementation. The only
>implementation I  have seen (searching this newsgroup) used a Python
>library called "Numeric". This   implementation doesn't work anymore.
>I was wondering whether anyone knew of any FW implementations
>elsewhere, or knew how I could convert the old example to Python code
>that would run on Python 2.2?
			.
			.
			.
Support for Python's Numeric project has been excellent.
Numarray will soon replace it.  If you are aware of an 
error in Numeric, I urge you to bring it to the attention
of others.  If you need help correcting a flawed imple-
mentation, this newsgroup is far likelier to satisfy you
after you've supplied references that allow others to
examine source, provided minimal information about version
numbers and platforms, and detailed what "doesn't work
anymore" means to you.
-- 

Cameron Laird <Cameron at Lairds.com>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
Personal:  http://phaseit.net/claird/home.html



From bgailer at alum.rpi.edu  Sun Jul 27 16:55:28 2003
From: bgailer at alum.rpi.edu (Bob Gailer)
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 14:55:28 -0600
Subject: changing the List's behaviour?
In-Reply-To: <oprszk3tmy5wny6w@mail.gmx.net>
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20030727145149.02dda5e8@66.28.54.253>

At 10:41 PM 7/27/2003 +0200, meinrad recheis wrote:
>i am very annoyed by the List's index out of bouds exception
>it forces me to complicate my code by adding length checking
>
>i might be spoilt by Ruby which returns nil for not existing indices.
>i want to change the List so that it returns None if the index for 
>accesssing list elements
>is out of bound.
>
>i am not very experienced in python, so i ask you for suggestions.

Why is your code generating indexes that are out of range in the first place?

You can always use try - except to catch index errors in the (hopefully) 
few places where there is a legitimate reason for an out of bound index.

Returning None is not a good idea, as None could be a value in the list. 
But you can create a subclass of list with its own __getitem__ method that 
checks bounds and returns None.

Bob Gailer
bgailer at alum.rpi.edu
303 442 2625
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From sybrenUSE at YOURthirdtower.imagination.com  Tue Jul 29 11:58:56 2003
From: sybrenUSE at YOURthirdtower.imagination.com (Sybren Stuvel)
Date: 29 Jul 2003 15:58:56 GMT
Subject: Python on a USB storage device?
References: <VXcVa.28$HY3.42617@news.uswest.net> <bg5vpm$32p$1@scotsman.ed.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <slrnbid6a7.7na.sybrenUSE@sybren.thirdtower.com>

Eddie Corns enlightened us with:
> Yes, I have an oldish windows Python distribution on a 128Mb stick.
> It works quite nicely but you do have to be aware that without the
> usual registry entries it won't search for libraries etc. so well.

You can also install Linux on a USB storage device and hope the
computer it has to run on supports booting from USB ;-)

> It would work on Linux too except you need to have permission to
> create mount tables etc. to get the filesystem.

Running your own Linux off the USB stick solves that problem.

Sybren
-- 
The problem with the world is stupidity. Not saying there should be a
capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the
safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself? 



From pete at fenelon.com  Thu Jul  3 11:08:44 2003
From: pete at fenelon.com (Pete Fenelon)
Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 15:08:44 -0000
Subject: Collective memory
References: <mailman.1057083728.8224.python-list@python.org> <vg88va53uha8e@corp.supernews.com> <1057243309.793889@saucer.planet.gong>
Message-ID: <vg8hns2u0l4off@corp.supernews.com>

In alt.folklore.computers Rupert Pigott <roo at dark-try-removing-this-boong.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> OCCAM used WS to denote block structure... For

...and was generally written with folding editors that just "got it
right" ;)

pete
-- 
pete at fenelon.com "there's no room for enigmas in built-up areas" HMHB




From rastm2 at aol.commorespam  Sun Jul 27 03:13:48 2003
From: rastm2 at aol.commorespam (Raymond Arthur St. Marie II of III )
Date: 27 Jul 2003 07:13:48 GMT
Subject: Del's "except"ional PEP Rejection
Message-ID: <20030727031348.05032.00000554@mb-m26.aol.com>


Ladieees and Gentilmen and Pyth-O-neers of all ages.
	Step right up. 
	Don't be shy.
	Come one come all.
	Be the first on your block 
	       TO GROK 
	*THE* one *THE* only
        Exception you won't find 
		any where but here!
	The Exception that's Exceptional!

	It's the "elif from lamdba except" Exception.
	(The only Exception that don't 
		need an "except" clause, 
			Because it *IS* one.)

It's the story of Del, an intermitantly deaf,
intermitantly nauseated importation executive 
with Print Global Inc. 

Del's a company man, 
and the 150 year old, family owned
company needs someone
to lead them all into the 21'st Century.

Having over heard...

( It's amazing how some people who seem 
deaf at times can hear things 
from what 
was supposed to be a
closed door meeting between ) 

...the VP of Statis 
talking down to 
the 85 year old Chief of Data Processing ...

( History Note--that's what they
used to call them you know -- 
worked his way up from crank turner 
-- but I digress )
...
what was I saying    oh yeah 

Del over heard the VP telling the old guy,

"Hell, my 12 year kid stuck *some* kinda snake, 
wait it was a python, 
yeah he stuck a python in
an old Apple II 
that was in the attic a week ago
Sunday and started typeing like 
mad and by Thursday he was 
telling me that he had gone 
GLOBAL and wouldn't
need his allowance anymore. 

No it's time to upgrade.
Shut down the ENIAC."

Cut to the "ever butt kissing" Del, half deaf, sitting
in Python school. 
Well, sorta sitting 'cuz' Del's got
bowel problems and he needs another pass from the 
Instructor to go to the lav.

Sitting on the pot, like a splash,
a thought hits him.
( gosh I hope it was just a thought )

Ya see, Dan didn't just volenteer for this mission,
he was holding back from the company.
He new a litte "c" code. Just enough to be dangerous,
and it made him sick to his stomach.

But this Python Language!
He truely understood and liked what he was learing.

Python was indented so you could read it like 
a self respecting human being.

It was impressive to him, the way you could write your 
code in the interpreter, and did't have to declare 
anything or agonize while you waited to see if it worked.

He liked the way "elif" statements made case switches 
easier to code and understand. 

How "from" this "import" that made code re-usable.

How "lamda" could define a function in a function 
without having to define a function for a function.

How exceptions could be used to make programs that
worked the first time.

He loved the "while loops" and the list comprehensions 
that had little "for loops" and "if"s in them.

He like how any one on the planet,
with enough money to
maintain a computer and an internet connection,
could just be so very proud that they had their 
PEP rejected
by the most intelligent, helpful,
thoughtful, and kindest people on Earth.

Sitting right there on the throne of inspiration 
he came up with the only 
exception that uses all the keywords, 
types all in one color in the editor, 
and makes sense to only him, 
so he sent in a PEP to be rejected...

wait for it 

wait for it 

Bam!
The elif from lambda except: statment 

elif from lambda except:
	while del is not def: 
		[import exec for print global]
	try: 
		continue or 
	else: 
		raise and return break pass in class 
	finally: 
		yeild if assert 

*PYTHON* 
	*THE*WAY
	*GUIDO*
		*INDENTED*
	*IT*TO*BE*

By Raymond St. Marie (Rastm2 at aol.com -- don't laugh,
it's been free since I lost my job in January)



From ianb at colorstudy.com  Tue Jul  8 03:57:49 2003
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: 08 Jul 2003 02:57:49 -0500
Subject: path module
Message-ID: <1057651068.5348.386.camel@lothlorien>

I think Jason Orendorff's path module is really nice:
  http://www.jorendorff.com/articles/python/path/

Beats the hell out of os.path, which is an ugly thing indeed.  The OO
interface means you could use the interface nicely to implement other
things, like URLs.  The problem?  It's just some module.  The various os
functions (of which path replaces quite a few) have become idiomatic to
me, and I'm sure others as well.  I find myself reluctant to use it in
code that's not essentially private, because it's changing something
small and seemingly trivial, and people won't be familiar with it.

The solution?  It should be a builtin!  Or, if not a builtin, included
in the os module.  But I actually like the idea of it being a builtin --
if open is a builtin, path stands right up there too.  It would get rid
of 90% of the use of the os module.

Thoughts?  Reactions?

  Ian






From gh at ghaering.de  Thu Jul 24 04:15:45 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 10:15:45 +0200
Subject: How to do raw Ethernet under Win32?
In-Reply-To: <slrnbhung3.180.grante@localhost.localdomain>
References: <3f1ed31a$0$181$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<3f1ee77f$0$160$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<mailman.1058996376.9482.python-list@python.org>
	<slrnbhung3.180.grante@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <3F1F95B1.1070709@ghaering.de>

Grant Edwards wrote:
> In article <mailman.1058996376.9482.python-list at python.org>, Gerhard H?ring wrote:
> 
>>>It looks like I can _almost_ do what I want with the python
>>>wrapper around the windows pcap lib.
>>
>>Where's PyLibpCap for Windows available?
> 
> Here's where I got it from:
> 
>   http://ghaering.de/python/unsupported/pylibpcap/  ;)
> 
> I'd take a whack at finishing it, but I don't have a Windows C compiler.

The guy you got this from used MINGW, the free GNU compiler for Windows 
to do the original port:

http://mingw.sourceforge.net/

:)

-- Gerhard




From brian.pedersen at mail.danbbs.dk  Mon Jul 28 17:34:13 2003
From: brian.pedersen at mail.danbbs.dk (Brian Dam Pedersen)
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 23:34:13 +0200
Subject: Documenting properties created by property() properly
Message-ID: <bg44so$284j$1@news.cybercity.dk>

Hi Group

I'm trying to figure out the proper way to document object properties 
created with property() using the LaTeX styles coming with python. The 
closest thing seems to be \begin{memberdesc}, but that seems like a 
clumsy way to express it. Is there any "official" way to do this ? I 
can't seem to find any objects in the standard distribution that uses 
properties - if anyone has an example of that I can just copy that.

Any opinions ?

Thanks in advance

-- Brian




From sross at connectmail.carleton.ca  Thu Jul  3 12:34:03 2003
From: sross at connectmail.carleton.ca (Sean Ross)
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 12:34:03 -0400
Subject: 'For' loop symmetry with list comprehensions.
References: <840592e1.0307021036.508d7d7d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <LUYMa.5841$eF3.721551@news20.bellglobal.com>

"Hannu Kankaanp??" <hanzspam at yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:840592e1.0307021036.508d7d7d at posting.google.com...
> One can currently say this with list comprehensions:
>
> [x.lower() for x in words if x.startswith('foo')]
>
> Wouldn't it be better if the normal 'for' syntax was symmetrical
> with the notation used in list comprehensions?

If we were trying to be symmetrical, then:

>>> words = ("hello", "bonjour")
>>> otherwords = ("foo", "bar")
>>> msgs = ["%s %s"%(x,y) for x in words for y in otherwords]
>>> msgs
['hello foo', 'hello bar', 'bonjour foo', 'bonjour bar']


(being symmetrical) we should also be able to write:

>>> msgs = []
>>> for x in words:
...  for y in otherwords:
...   msgs.append("%s %s"%(x,y))
...
>>> msgs
['hello foo', 'hello bar', 'bonjour foo', 'bonjour bar']


as follows:

msgs = []
for x in words for y in otherwords:
    msgs.append("%s %s"%(x,y))


If you really want symmetry, well, this is symmetrical. Do you want this as
well?

-0
Sean





From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Jul  4 14:22:08 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 14:22:08 -0400
Subject: How to get CGI request-URL
References: <HBF.20030704ty6d@bombur.uio.no>
Message-ID: <3F05C5D0.B4E9C5F3@engcorp.com>

Hallvard B Furuseth wrote:
> 
> How can I get the URL the user typed (except the part after '?') with
> the cgi module?
> 
> I expect the 'Host:' HTTP header + os.environ['SCRIPT_NAME'] would do
> it, but I don't see how to find the Host header.  The www server has
> several names, so I can't just use the default host name.

This might help:  http://hoohoo.ncsa.uiuc.edu/cgi/env.html

Found via Google....



From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Mon Jul  7 12:00:11 2003
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 11:00:11 -0500
Subject: getting a submatrix of all true
In-Reply-To: <52fe159d.0307041016.4dcb4a5c@posting.google.com> (wright@esrf.fr's
 message of "4 Jul 2003 11:16:41 -0700")
References: <mailman.1057173484.29754.python-list@python.org>
	<be0b84$89a$0@216.39.172.122>
	<52fe159d.0307041016.4dcb4a5c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <m2isqel438.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

>>>>> "Jon" == Jon  <wright at esrf.fr> writes:

    Jon> Sadly I can only give you a method which is certainly not
    Jon> optimal, but at least finds something which is probably not
    Jon> too bad, and fairly quickly. Uses the Numeric module to speed
    Jon> up, so that a few thousand by a few hundred is quickly
    Jon> computable. I'm curious to know if it does much better or
    Jon> worse than other algorithms.

Hi Jon, thanks for the suggestion.  For my data set, your solution
performed a little better size-wise than my poor man's approach, which
I gave in the original post.  And it is certainly fast enough.  I
liked your idea of zero-ing out the elements when you made a decision
to delete a row or column.  When I was thinking about solutions using
Numeric, I kept running up against the problem of deleting a row or
column (which entails a whole array copy so is expensive).

If anyone wants to try their algorithm on "real world data" which,
unlike the ones discussed here, have lots of correlation between
missing rows and columns that might be exploited, I have uploaded the
missing data matrix to a web server.  It can be loaded with:

  from urllib import urlopen
  url = 'http://nitace.bsd.uchicago.edu:8080/summer/jdh/missing.dat'
  L = [ [ int(val) for val in line.split()] 
        for line in urlopen(url).readlines()]
  # L is 1072x83

I think I may adapt your algorithm to terminate when the percent
missing falls below some threshold, removing the requirement that
*all* missing values be removed.  This will drop the worst offenders
observation or variable wise.  Then I can use a regression approach to
fill in the remaining ones.

    Jon> Interesting problem!

I agree.  There are lots of extensions to the original formulation
that are relevant to the missing value problem.  As we have seen in
the posts here, there are good exact solutions for smallish matrices,
but for larger ones a statistical approach is required.  The right
statistical solution surely depends on the correlation structure of
the matrix.

Also, it would be nice to generalize to higher dimensions (eg 3D
matrices).  For my problem, I have N observations of M variables over
D days.  So this is the 3D version of the 2D problem above.  Your
solution is readily adaptable to this case.  More generally, you might
want to impose extra requirements, like, no days can be dropped, or at
most 10% of the days can be dropped, or if you want to compute changes
in variables over days, that no days can be dropped.   

The more general formulation is something like

  Given an N-D (N0, M0, P0, ...) boolean matrix X with a covariance
  matrix C, what is the largest submatrix of X of dimensions (N1, M1,
  P1, ...) such that the fraction of remaining dimensions satisfies

    (N1/N0, M1/M0, P1/P0, ...) >= (alpha, beta, gamma, ..)  

  and the total percent true <= p.

The original problem is a special case of this where alpha=0, beta=0,
p=0 and C unspecified.

Anyone looking for a dissertation project :-) ?

John Hunter




From alienoid at is.lg.ua  Tue Jul 15 04:48:49 2003
From: alienoid at is.lg.ua (Ruslan Spivak)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 11:48:49 +0300
Subject: how to compile python program to linux executable
Message-ID: <3F13BFF1.2000604@is.lg.ua>

Hello.

Is it possible to convert python program to linux executable program?

Thanks in advance.

Best regards,
Ruslan





From aquarock7 at aol.com  Tue Jul 22 20:45:37 2003
From: aquarock7 at aol.com (AquaRock7)
Date: 23 Jul 2003 00:45:37 GMT
Subject: python22_d.lib?
References: <mailman.1058910644.9198.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <20030722204537.18340.00000316@mb-m15.aol.com>

Or just put this in Python2.h:
#ifdef _DEBUG
#define _DEBUG_2
#undef _DEBUG
#include <Python.h>
#define _DEBUG
#undef _DEBUG_2
#endif

and then include Python2.h instead of Python.h.  Defining _DEBUG makes python
use python22_d.lib instead of python22.lib.

Or you can just make all your builds release builds, but this kills all of your
assert()'s.



From bokr at oz.net  Sat Jul 12 19:44:59 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 12 Jul 2003 23:44:59 GMT
Subject: new in town
References: <AeVPa.445271$Vi5.11496890@news1.calgary.shaw.ca> <2a897f11.0307121139.21470fbb@posting.google.com> <EM_Pa.420940$ro6.10135135@news2.calgary.shaw.ca>
Message-ID: <beq6hr$4jf$0@216.39.172.122>

On Sat, 12 Jul 2003 21:07:48 GMT, "Elaine Jackson" <elainejackson7355 at home.com> wrote:
<previously top-posted material moved from here />
>Wayne Pierce <wayne at mishre.com> wrote in message
>news:2a897f11.0307121139.21470fbb at posting.google.com...
>| "Elaine Jackson" <elainejackson7355 at home.com> wrote in message
>news:<AeVPa.445271$Vi5.11496890 at news1.calgary.shaw.ca>...
>| > Can Python be compiled? If so, how? (I have the 2.2 version of the
>interpreter.)
>| > TIA for any and all helps
>|
>| If you want to be able to distribute your Python apps without the end
>| user needing a Python interpreter take a look at the following:
>|
>| http://www.mcmillan-inc.com/install1.html
>|
>| Wayne
>
>
<previously top-posted material>
>Thank you.
>
</previously top-posted material>

Hi, welcome to the neighborhood ;-)
If you are also new to newsgroups, you may not know that most newsgroup
participants cringe when they see top-posting.

The reason is that if there is ongoing interchange with quoting and editing,
it soon gets very hard to follow the sequence if people do not post below what
they are commenting on or replying to.

For a single interchange, it may seem convenient to see the latest at the top,
but the price in later confusion is not worth it.

Subject lines that indicate what you want also help ;-)

Good luck with Python. I'm sure you'll find plenty of willing help here.

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From fredrik at pythonware.com  Tue Jul 15 18:51:55 2003
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 00:51:55 +0200
Subject: String Manipulation
References: <2c6431ab.0307151223.4173c4ee@posting.google.com> <mailman.1058302644.12320.python-list@python.org> <3f148002$0$49112$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <bf20ju$iq3$1@main.gmane.org>

Irmen de Jong wrote:

> While is is perfectly acceptable, you might want to consider another
> solution if it is *path names* you are manipulating:
>
>  >>> import os
>  >>> os.path.split("aaa/bbb/ccc/dd")
> ('aaa/bbb/ccc', 'dd')
>  >>> os.path.split("aaa/bbb/ccc/dd")[1]
> 'dd'

or:

    >>> os.path.basename("aaa/bbb/ccc/dd")
    'dd'

(use os.path.dirname to get the directory part)

</F>







From yunxian at proteome.org.au  Thu Jul 31 22:17:59 2003
From: yunxian at proteome.org.au (Yunxian Mak)
Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2003 12:17:59 +1000
Subject: How to run Python script on WindowXP
Message-ID: <000001c357d3$20eee930$3cb06f89@APAF.local>

Dear Sir/Madam,

I'm doing my PhD in APAF and I installed Python 2.2 interpreter in
WindowNT before and it worked OK on my old computer. However, our
company has upgraded the systems to WindowXP recently. I installed
Python2.2.3, which includes IDLE (Python GUI), Module Docs, Python
(command line) and Python Manuals, on my new computer.  I can open my
Python code from IDLE (Python GUI), but I don't know how to run it. If
you could please tell me whether the Python interpreter compatible to
WindowXP and how to run the Python script on WindowXP, I'll be much
appreciated. Thank you very much again.

Best regards,

Yunxian Mak

-------------- next part --------------
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From anand_soliton at yahoo.com  Tue Jul 22 13:13:39 2003
From: anand_soliton at yahoo.com (Anand)
Date: 22 Jul 2003 10:13:39 -0700
Subject: Is there a way to access/modify/add variables to caller from a sub function
Message-ID: <3f5dc178.0307220913.62a7e92f@posting.google.com>

Is there a way to access/modify variables of a caller function from
within a sub function call?

Function A:   Calls subFuncB:

var x           Add var xx in Function A's name space??
var y
var z



From brian_l at yahoo.com  Tue Jul 29 20:40:57 2003
From: brian_l at yahoo.com (Brian Lenihan)
Date: 29 Jul 2003 17:40:57 -0700
Subject: Trustudio plugin for Eclipse IDE
References: <MPG.19904d4257bd4f579896bb@news.mminternet.com>
Message-ID: <afe3b146.0307291640.3122db1@posting.google.com>

james roush <jar at mminternet.com> wrote in message news:<MPG.19904d4257bd4f579896bb at news.mminternet.com>...
> I've been trying, without success, to download the Trustudio plugin for 
> the Eclipse IDE.  I've been trying to get it from 
> http://www.xored.com/download.php.  
> 
> Has anyone gotten it from somewhere else?

http://sourceforge.net/projects/trustudio/



From vze4rx4y at verizon.net  Wed Jul 30 04:42:59 2003
From: vze4rx4y at verizon.net (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 08:42:59 GMT
Subject: metaclasses
References: <pan.2003.07.28.22.25.25.311058@webone.com.au> <udCVa.117$7h6.14@nwrdny03.gnilink.net> <S8EVa.501$7h6.298@nwrdny03.gnilink.net>
Message-ID: <nyLVa.2704$Jz2.478@nwrdny02.gnilink.net>

> >> It seems this is a more general way to build classes than inheritance.
> >> Is this a reasonable viewpoint?

> > It is a less general way for building classes.
>
> Actually, the question doesn't make sense.  Metaclasses and
> inheritance are two different dimensions of generality.  Neither is
> more or less general than the other, because they generalize in
> different ways.
>
> However, his use of the built-in metatype 'type' is more general than
> the class statement, which seemed to be what he was asking.  One can
> supply a list of bases which, unlike the class statement, need not be
> a fixed length.  In fact, the bases can be calculated dynamically.
> Likewise with the class dict.

I read his question as asking about the merits
of subclassing type vs using type() directly.

class MyMeta(type):
      . . .
class MyClass:
    __metatype__ = MyMeta
      . . .

vs.

MyClass = type(n, b, d)



Raymond Hettinger







From alanmk at hotmail.com  Thu Jul  3 08:28:56 2003
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 13:28:56 +0100
Subject: Assing a COM Interface to a Python object for callbacks
References: <26caea2b.0307012335.1d717429@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3F042188.5FFC45D3@hotmail.com>

Mikko Ohtamaa wrote:

> I have a following problem:
> I am trying to do XML Schema validation using MSXML SAX parser through
> PythonCOM API.
> 
> MSXML offers two different interfaces for SAX: One for VB and one for
> C++. C++ one is named ISAXXMLReader and VB one is named
> IVBSAXXMLReader. I haven't found what is the basic difference between
> these interfaces though I have carefully read MSXML SDK documentation.
> I assume IVBSAXXMLReader might have some IDispatch functionality which
> is requirement for PythonCom(?).
> 
> The problem is that SAX Parser requires COM interface for callback.
> You must assign a COM interface as a handler to the parser. When the
> parsing begins, the handler calls this interface.
> 
> saxReader.errorHandler = myErrorHandler <-- COM Interface
> 
> I do not know how to turn Python class into COM interface on the fly.

I'm not sure how Mark Hammond's Windows extensions handle this
situation, if at all.

But I do know that Thomas Heller's "ctypes" has a COM framework which
addresses the problem. Only thing is, I don't know how robust the
current support is, given that, in Thomas own words: "Warning: work in
progress".

http://starship.python.net/crew/theller/ctypes/sum_sample.html

HTH,

-- 
alan kennedy
-----------------------------------------------------
check http headers here: http://xhaus.com/headers
email alan:              http://xhaus.com/mailto/alan



From schull at digitalgoods.com  Mon Jul 14 15:40:54 2003
From: schull at digitalgoods.com (Jon Schull)
Date: 14 Jul 2003 12:40:54 -0700
Subject: cgi-tb after os.chdir
Message-ID: <2621b014.0307141140.650a234a@posting.google.com>

I find that cgitb fails to show error context if I've changed my
default directory, so I tried to subclass cgitb and get it to save the
directory we were in when the program started.  Didn't work.  I'd
appreciate your eyes.

Problem--this apparently fails to find my sourcefile when #os.chdir is
uncommented from this cgi program
.........................

#! /usr/local/bin/python 
import cgitb
cgitb.enable()

import os
#os.chdir('../')
1/0
.........................
What I thought would work:
.........................
from cgitb import Hook
import os
import sys

class myHook(Hook):
	def __init__(self, display=1, logdir=None, context=5,
file=None,wkdir='xx'):
		self.wkdir=wkdir
		Hook.__init__(self, display=1, logdir=None, context=5, file=None)

	def handle(self, info=None):
		os.cwd(self.wkdir)
		Hook.handle(self,info)

handler = myHook().handle
def enable(display=1, logdir=None, context=5):
	wkdir=os.getcwd()
	sys.excepthook = myHook(display, logdir, context,wkdir=wkdir)

.........................
But in fact, my exception handler doesn't even seem to get installed.
(I get python's usual tracebacks)

I'm probably over my head here, but...

What's wrong with the program where I attempt to subclass myHook?

Is this a reasonable way to get cgitb to survive directory changes?



From adechert at earthlink.net  Tue Jul 22 13:51:49 2003
From: adechert at earthlink.net (Alan Dechert)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 17:51:49 GMT
Subject: Possible use of Python for a voting machine demo project -- your feedback requested
References: <P9DSa.111436$Io.9552373@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <bff56e$8iv$1@slb9.atl.mindspring.net> <zXFSa.111727$Io.9572470@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <bfh7rs$hmv$1@slb4.atl.mindspring.net> <hekohvcn9ibe3dik8g7vb2136768e67id7@4ax.com> <7xbrvnmqzp.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <g6hqhvgkhnjff7k0bbnbnsuam02j2bdjbk@4ax.com> <7x4r1exzqh.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <VQeTa.16735$Mc.1279115@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>

"Paul Rubin" <http://phr.cx at NOSPAM.invalid> wrote in message
news:7x4r1exzqh.fsf at ruckus.brouhaha.com...
> Marc Wilson <marc at cleopatra.co.uk> writes:
> > Ah.  That's a whole load of trouble we don't have.  To stand for
election,
> > here, you have to pony up a deposit, which you lose if you don't get a
> > certain percentage of the vote.  It's to discourage "frivolous"
campaigns,
> > supposedly.  IIRC, it's around GBP 1000; about USD 1500.
>
> Here, you have to get a certain number of voter signatures on
> petitions, plus pay a bunch of fees, to get your name actually printed
> on the ballot.
>
I'm not sure if this is "uniformly" true.  I once ran a petition drive to
get a candidate on the ballot IN LIEU of the filing fee (for 1986 primary,
U.S. House of Representatives, 12 CD in CA).  It took 3,000 valid
signatures, IIRC.

> But when voting, you can write in the name of anyone
> you want.
>
This too seems not uniformly true.  In some states (e.g., Florida) write-ins
are only valid if the candidates are "qualified."  Write-ins have to file a
petition or something like that.  Otherwise, the write-ins don't count.  So,
if a contest has no qualified write-in candidates, the line for write-in
does not appear on the ballot.  Doug Jones has some on his web site.  Here's
one for Clay county in FL.  Note that some contests have the write-in line
but some don't.

http://www.cs.uiowa.edu/~jones/voting/intent/samples/clay.pdf

The way that write-ins are handled would probably change [for the better] if
our uniform PC-based-open-source-with-a-printer voting system gets
implemented.  Write-ins pose significant overhead in election
administration.  In some cases, the actual name written in only gets read if
there are enough write-in votes to impact the outcome.  In other cases,
write-ins have to be tallied by name regardless.  With our system, write-ins
would be taken care of (almost) automatically.  So, a lot of the rules that
are designed to cut down on the manual labor involved in tallying write-ins
would no longer be needed.  There would still be some issues but, for the
most part, these will be easy to deal with.  Spelling variations cause some
challenge.  For example,

B WRIGHT
BILL WRIGHT
WILLIAM WRIGHT
WILL WRIGHT
WILIAM WRIGHT
WILLIAM WRITE

might all refer to the same peron.  In the extremely rare instance where
sorting this out could impact the outcome, it will be much easier to deal
with on our system than on any system where votes are written in by hand.
Existing DREs on the market also have this advantage over other systems but
they don't have the penetration we hope to achieve.

Alan Dechert





From guettler at thomas-guettler.de  Thu Jul 31 10:32:24 2003
From: guettler at thomas-guettler.de (Thomas =?ISO-8859-15?Q?G=FCttler?=)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 16:32:24 +0200
Subject: regular expression
References: <guthivo3oliuj96l00kriof2hdev7oujfb@4ax.com> <bgb1p2$mvkre$1@ID-63505.news.uni-berlin.de> <ih3iiv0bkk25h6qqt4q4vabbnbr763ii46@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <bgb99p$ndse0$1@ID-63505.news.uni-berlin.de>

Wiebke P?tzold wrote:

> On Thu, 31 Jul 2003 14:24:01 +0200, Thomas G?ttler
> <guettler at thomas-guettler.de> wrote:
> 
>>Wiebke P?tzold wrote:

Please cut unimportant parts if you reply.

> Can you tell me please on wich place in my program the if-statement
> will be inserted?

At the same place where you have it (if ...=="G")

> And then I have another question too. After the if statement there
> must be a print statement. I have no idea how I must write my program
> so that it is right and executably.
> Can you write it me exactly how this program should look like?

You seem to be running on windows ("C:\..."). I think double-clicking
on it should execute it. 

If you want to make it executable without python installed: Have a look
at py2exe.

Since you seem to be a german: Maybe my Python introduction helps you:
 http://www.thomas-guettler.de/vortraege/python/einfuehrung.html

 thomas





From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Jul  3 10:18:10 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 10:18:10 -0400
Subject: A story about Python... sort of
References: <3f03f430$0$97222$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk> <KwWMa.3332$Aw.3042@twister.nyc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <3F043B22.19FE79AE@engcorp.com>

Max Khesin wrote:
> 
> import flame.*
> import sorry.*
> Ok, with all my respect to python, the stuff about C++ is a bunch of hooey.
> Compilation time is the problem? Give me a break.
> 1) separate compilation?
> 2) precompiled headers?
> 3) tools that allow cluster compilation?
> 4) ever read 'large-scale c++ development' by Lacos? a must for large c++
> project. letter-envelope idiom to help compilation...etc.

Sounds to me that if they've come up with so many and such a wide
range of optimizations to improve compilation time, then it clearly *is* 
a problem...

> Anyway, if you are coding so fast that compilation time becomes a serious
> problem you are either
> a) the smartest and fastest programmer on earth
> b) are not thinking enough

c) doing test-driven development

I admit to not having done any C++ code for several years, certainly not
since adopting TDD, but I would guess for a sizable project the compilation
and link times could become a major annoyance

-Peter



From bokr at oz.net  Wed Jul  9 08:30:55 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 9 Jul 2003 12:30:55 GMT
Subject: Unexpected (by me) exec behavior
References: <f9ff3f62.0307080718.419c9f4f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <beh1tv$ts0$0@216.39.172.122>

On 8 Jul 2003 08:18:06 -0700, mwright at pro-ns.net (Mark Wright) wrote:

>I have a script that I use to control our build process.  It is a
>general purpose script that exec's other scripts that contain project
>specific python code.  In one of those other, project-specific,
>scripts I exec a third script.  That third script is failing because
>it can't seem to 'import' successfully.  It seems that if one 'exec's
>a string that in turn 'exec's another string, the 'import's don't work
>in the second string.  I'm assuming that I'm misunderstanding
>something about Python namespaces, but here's an example that
>illustrates the problem:
>
I feel sure there is a better way to do what you want to do, though
I'm not clear on what that is ;-)

You're right that it's a name space thing. Choose [1], [2], [3], or [4] or [5] ;-)
>----------------------------
># filename = t.py
>s1 = """
>s2 = \"\"\"
>import socket
# moving the import above to [1] will make it work
>def xyz():
#def xyz(socket=socket): #[2] chg above to this will also bind the socket to a socket local to xyz
        #import socket #[1]
>	print socket.gethostbyname('somehost')
#                                  ^^^^^^^^^^-- suggest 'localhost' for quick result instead of error
>if __name__ == '__main__':
>	xyz()
#       xyz(socket) #[3] another way to grab the imported socket and pass it to xyz where
#                   # you could call it something different, e.g.,
                    # def xyz(skt): print skt.gethostbyname('localhost')
>\"\"\"
>
>def abc():
>	exec s2
#       exec s2 in globals() #[4] this would bind socket from import globally (w.r.t. t.py) for xyz to see
>if __name__ == '__main__':
>	abc()
>"""
>
>exec s1
>-----------------------------
>
>Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "t.py", line 24, in ?
>    exec s1
>  File "<string>", line 13, in ?
>  File "<string>", line 11, in abc
>  File "<string>", line 6, in ?
>  File "<string>", line 4, in xyz
>NameError: global name 'socket' is not defined
>
>Can anyone explain this to me?
>
I suspect that to generate code referring to a variable in a nested scope outside
the local but not global -- like socket in your example, which is outside xyz but
not global since it winds up bound local to abc -- the nesting needs to be part of
the same compilation. In your example, s2 is not compiled until abc is executed,
so the compilation of xyz is separate from abc, even though the resulting bindings
are injected into abc's local space. However, when the compilation happens, the
nesting is not visible, so I think you get code that either refers to locals in a
defined function like xyz, or global, but not free. But the def code can assemble
the function when it executes and binds the name to the constructed function. That
includes a designated global directory, which can be abc's local directory if you
specify exec s2 in locals() there. Updating locals will probably not work, so
global declarations in xyz and assigning them would not be good, but looking for
socket in an apparent global that is the abc locals() dict should work. The code
example get another problem though, because __name__ is no longer t.py's __main__,
so xyz won't be called unless you change the if test (the name apparently becomes
__builtin__, so if you wanted to have a script you could execute like that as
well as from the command line directly, you might make the test
[5] ;-)

    if __name__ in ['__main__', '__builtin__']:
        xyz()

and execute it something like

    xdir = {}
    exec s2 in xdir

and potentially access results in xdir afterwards, to rebind them or print
status messages or whatever wasn't already a side effect of the exec.

The above is the way I'm guessing nested variable references work, but I haven't
dug into the compiler etc to verify it, so I'd wait to hear from someone who can
say for sure. I wonder if there are changes coming in name searching and rebinding etc.

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From mjackson at alumni.caltech.edu  Tue Jul  8 18:50:15 2003
From: mjackson at alumni.caltech.edu (Mark Jackson)
Date: 8 Jul 2003 22:50:15 GMT
Subject: anything new on the ternary operator?
References: <3F09E4B4.FED89C06@alcyone.com> <3F09252F.9B0F52BD@alcyone.com> <2UVsCJApkwC$EwTg@jessikat.demon.co.uk>
Message-ID: <befhr7$afn$1@news.wrc.xerox.com>

Robin Becker <robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> writes:

> the Middle East is certainly not in Europe at least according to
> classical authors, historians & geographers. Asia begins across the
> Hellespont so asiatic Turkey, Iraq, Syria, Palestine are not in Europe
> and neither is the Israeli territory. I suspect Israelis would prefer to
> be in America so that they wouldn't have to take part in the Eurovision
> song contest.

I'm sure there must be an opt-out clause for Eurovision contests - I
certainly don't recall Israeli teams competing in It's a Knockout /
Jeux Sans Frontieres back in 1977.

On the other hand as part of America they might have gotten roped into
Almost Anything Goes.

-- 
Mark Jackson - http://www.alumni.caltech.edu/~mjackson
	It is necessary to be slightly underemployed if you want to
	do something significant.	- James D. Watson





From thedustbustr at aol.com  Sat Jul 26 09:46:24 2003
From: thedustbustr at aol.com (TheDustbustr)
Date: 26 Jul 2003 13:46:24 GMT
Subject: Loading and executing an arbitrary Python script from within Python
Message-ID: <20030726094624.15169.00000599@mb-m13.aol.com>

I'm writing a game in C++ that calls out to Python for scripting.  The C++
kernel holds an instance of ScriptCtl and calls the load(filename) method to
load a script, then run() to run all loaded scripts.

<code>
[scriptctl.py]
class ScriptCtl:
    threads=[]

    def load(self, filename):
        f=file(filename, 'r')
        contents=f.read()
        f.close()
        exec(contents) #contents exec'ed within the current scope and
namespace, not within their own
        self.threads.append(main)
    
    def run(self):
        while self.threads:
            for g in self.threads:
                try:
                    g.next()
                except StopIteration:
                    self.threads.remove(g)

[cutscene.py]
from __future__ import generators
def cutscene():
    from time import time
    import sys
    from utility import sleep
    
    print "EVIL KNIGHT: I will kill you now!"; sys.stdout.flush()
    for s in sleep(1): yield None
    print "OUR HERO: I shall fight you to the death.  Bring it on!";
sys.stdout.flush()
    for s in sleep(1.5): yield None
    print "***End of cutscene***"; sys.stdout.flush()

main=cutscene() #initialize the generator for use by scriptctl
</code>

This works, barely.  As a result of using exec, each script is executed in
ScriptCtl.load()'s namespace.  Because of this, imports have to be done inside
the script functions, or the imports go out of scope before the functions get
called (in scriptctl.run()).  Imports also have to be done as from
scriptctl.py, even though scriptctl.py deeper in the package hierarchy (so
instead of 'import core.utility' I must do 'import utility' because both
utility.py and scriptctl.py are in the same folder (core).

This sucks.

How else can I solve this problem?  Ideally, I'd use Stackless Python
microthreads, but version 3.0 is not out yet and there is no documentation on
the current was to do microthreads.

Any ideas?  I'm stuck.
Thanks, Dustin



From nagylzs at freemail.hu  Thu Jul  3 06:37:04 2003
From: nagylzs at freemail.hu (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Nagy_L=E1szl=F3_Zsolt?=)
Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 12:37:04 +0200
Subject: How to setup webserver for Python
References: <3F040F17.25697.E24EF9@localhost>
Message-ID: <3F040750.9020105@freemail.hu>

>
>
>Hello,
>I have a webhosting account with one company.
>I can use python from command line through Telnet(SSH) but can not run successfully 
>Python program from a browser.(They use Apache web server.)
>What must I do?
>What permission must I set on directory and the python file?
>Here is a simple program I would like to run 
>########
>#!/usr/bin/python 
>print "Content-Type: text/html"    print
>print"AAA"
>########
>Thanks for help
>Ladislav
>
>I look forward to hearing from you soon.
>  
>
I think you should configure Apache for you directory (containing the 
script) to be a CGI direcory.
Option: ExecCGI. Please see Apache documentation. Probably you cannot 
change apache configuration
directly on the site because it is a hosting site serving many clients. 
However, you can do almost the same
with .htaccess files. Again, see Apache docs for details.

About permissions. You should know who is the user running the apache 
process. (It is usually apache, nobody or www.)
You should setup your CGI script in a way that the user running apache 
can run your CGI script too.

Cheers,

Laci 1.0






From andy at wild-flower.co.uk  Sun Jul 13 17:21:39 2003
From: andy at wild-flower.co.uk (Andy Jewell)
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 22:21:39 +0100
Subject: Multiple Class Inheritance Question
In-Reply-To: <jpiQa.4284$Y%3.2387@nwrddc03.gnilink.net>
References: <jpiQa.4284$Y%3.2387@nwrddc03.gnilink.net>
Message-ID: <200307132221.39770.andy@wild-flower.co.uk>

On Sunday 13 Jul 2003 8:28 pm, YoTuco wrote:
> Does (can) an inheritance scheme like this have any adverse effects
> (pitt-falls) for the App class inheriting class 'A' twice?
>
> Thanx in advance for your input.
>
> class A:
>     A_attr = 'A'
>     ...
>     def A_methods(self):
>     ...
>
> class B(A):
>     def __init__(self):
>     ...
>
> class C(A):
>     def __init__(self):
>     ...
>
> class App(B,C):
>     def __init__(self):
>         B.__init__(self)
>         C.__init__(self)
>     ...


Read guildo's essay on new style classes - that explains it all.

In the 'old days' i.e. before Python 2.2.x the rules were different.  Now a 
new algorithm is used which copes better with this.  As I said, read the 
essay (it's on www.python.org - just search for 'new style classes essay').

hth
-andyj




From mwelsh at abwatley.com  Tue Jul 15 07:32:56 2003
From: mwelsh at abwatley.com (Michael Welsh)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 07:32:56 -0400
Subject: asyncore asynchat
Message-ID: <200307150732.56310.mwelsh@abwatley.com>

In order to learn sockets in Python I am trying to write a simple group chat 
server and client.  I need a little nudge, please.  My question contains some 
GUI but only as decoration.  The root question is asyncore / asynchat.  I 
have read that twisted makes this all simple, but, I wanted to get my hands 
dirty here for educational purposes.

I've managed to build a small echo server with asyncore and asynchat that can 
handle any number of connections and repeat to all clients what was sent in 
by individual clients.   The server seems to work well.

The GUI client, wxPython, creates a socket on open.  The user types some text 
and clicks [SEND].  The send event puts the text out to the socket then reads 
the response and adds it to list control.  Everything works well.  

I'm now ready for the next step, to disconnect the send data from the recieve 
data.  So a user who does not send text, still gets what others may have 
written.  I need to somehow poll the thread so "add to list control" can be 
triggered on recieving the data.

I've tried several approaches and can't seem to get it right.  First I tried 
setting up a separate threading.Thread that created the socket.  This way I 
could put a poll on the socket.  I even created (borrowed) a custom event so 
when data was found, it could notify the GUI and call the "add to list 
control"  But I must have been doing it wrong because it kept locking up in 
the loop..  

I knew from the server side that asynchat has built in helpers with 
collect_incoming_data() and found_terminator().  (my terminator is appended 
when data is sent to the server)  I could then use the asyncore.poll() in my 
threading.Thread to raise the custom event that sends data to the GUI, when 
something comes over the socket.

I think I have the concepts right, but the execution breaks down here.  I 
tried having the threading.Thread create an asyn_chat but I keep getting 
errors that I assume the asyncore.dispatcher takes care of.  So... maybe I 
should use both core and chat on the client as well as the server.  The only 
examples of dispatcher I can find open up an asyn_chat on "listen".  The 
client needs to initiate the communication when it starts.  The server is 
listening and will respond.  I won't know on which port the response will 
come back.

Here's some bits showing what I'm trying to do.  You may find some of it 
familiar.  I hope I didn't clip anything that may have been needed  If anybody 
has time to point out where I'm going wrong it would be very helpful.  Thank 
you if you were patient enough to get this far...

import threading
import time
import socket
import asyncore
import asynchat
from   wxPython.wx import *

# server is listening on ...
REMOTE_HOST = '172.0.0.1' 
REMOTE_PORT = 50001

class MyTest(wxFrame):
    def __init__(self, parent, ID, title):
        # Initialize wxFrame
        wxFrame.__init__(self, .....

        # start the thread
        self.network = NetworkThread(self)
        self.network.start()
        EVT_NETWORK(self,self.OnNetwork)

        # build rest of GUI... works fine


# the network thread communicates back to the main
# GUI thread via this sythetic event
class NetworkEvent(wxPyEvent):
    def __init__(self,msg=""):
        wxPyEvent.__init__(self)
        self.SetEventType(wxEVT_NETWORK)
        self.msg = msg

wxEVT_NETWORK = 2000
def EVT_NETWORK(win, func):
    win.Connect(-1, -1, wxEVT_NETWORK, func)

class NetworkThread(threading.Thread):
    def __init__(self,win):
        threading.Thread.__init__(self)
        self.win = win
        self.keep_going = true
        self.running    = false
        self.MySock = NetworkServer(REMOTE_HOST, REMOTE_PORT, 
self.received_a_line)
        self.event_loop = EventLoop()

    def push(self,msg):
        self.MySock.push(msg)
    def is_running(self):
        return self.running
    def stop(self):
        self.keep_going = 0
    def check_status(self,el,time):
        if not self.keep_going:
            asyncore.close_all()
        else:
            self.event_loop.schedule(1,self.check_status)
    def received_a_line(self,m):
        self.send_event(m)
    def run(self):
        self.running = true
        self.event_loop.schedule(1,self.check_status)
        # loop here checking every 0.5 seconds for shutdowns etc..
        self.event_loop.go(0.5)
        # server has shutdown
        self.send_event("Closed down network")
        time.sleep(1)
        self.running = false

    # send a synthetic event back to our GUI thread
    def send_event(self,m):
        evt = NetworkEvent(m)
        wxPostEvent(self.win,evt)
        del evt

class NetworkServer (asyncore.dispatcher):
    def __init__ (self, host, port, handler=None):
        asyncore.dispatcher.__init__(self)
        self.create_socket(socket.AF_INET, socket.SOCK_STREAM)
        self.connect((host, port))

    def handle_connect (self):
        # I thought, maybe, the server would trigger this... nope
        ChatSocket (host, port, self.handler)

    def handle_read (self):
        data = self.recv (8192)
        self.send_event(self.data)
        print data

    def writable (self):
        return (len(self.buffer) > 0)

    def handle_write (self):
        sent = self.send (self.buffer)
        self.buffer = self.buffer[sent:]

    # send a synthetic event back to our GUI thread
    def send_event(self,m):
        evt = NetworkEvent(m)
        wxPostEvent(self.win,evt)
        del evt

class ChatSocket(asynchat.async_chat):
    def __init__(self, host, port, handler=None):
        asynchat.async_chat.__init__ (self, port)

    def collect_incoming_data(self, data):
        self.data.append(data)

    def found_terminator(self):
        if self.handler:
            self.send_event(self.data)
        else:
            print 'warning: unhandled message: ', self.data
        self.data = ''

class EventLoop:
    socket_map = asyncore.socket_map
    def __init__ (self):
        self.events = {}

    def go (self, timeout=5.0):
        events = self.events
        while self.socket_map:
            print 'inner-loop'
            now = int(time.time())
            for k,v in events.items():
                if now >= k:
                    v (self, now)
                    del events[k]
            asyncore.poll (timeout)

    def schedule (self, delta, callback):
        now = int (time.time())
        self.events[now + delta] = callback

    def unschedule (self, callback, all=1):
        "unschedule a callback"
        for k,v in self.events:
            if v is callback:
                del self.events[k]
                if not all:
                    break

# -----------------------------------------
# Run App
# -------------------------------------------
class TestApp(wxApp):
    def OnInit(self):
        frame = MyTest(None, -1, "Test APP")
        frame.Show(true)
        self.SetTopWindow(frame)
        return true

app = TestApp(0)
app.MainLoop()





From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Tue Jul 22 12:04:41 2003
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 11:04:41 -0500
Subject: Iterating order of dict.items()
In-Reply-To: <16469f07.0307220706.5e2fe1e4@posting.google.com> (robin.cull@pace.co.uk's
 message of "22 Jul 2003 08:06:28 -0700")
References: <16469f07.0307220706.5e2fe1e4@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <m2ptk2sg2u.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

>>>>> "Robin" == Robin Cull <robin.cull at pace.co.uk> writes:

    Robin> So, is the order of dict.items() defined?  If so, what is
    Robin> that order?  Is there any way to control the order my dict
    Robin> is iterated over?

See the FAQ:
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw.py?req=show&file=faq04.091.htp

The Cookbook:
http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/107747

And the usenet archives on http://groups.google.com
  search for: python order dictionary

John Hunter




From mcherm at mcherm.com  Tue Jul  1 14:33:49 2003
From: mcherm at mcherm.com (Michael Chermside)
Date: Tue,  1 Jul 2003 11:33:49 -0700
Subject: Suggesting for overloading the assign operator 
Message-ID: <1057084429.3f01d40d6e1dd@mcherm.com>

Rim writes:
> I have been thinking about how to overload the assign operation '='.
      [...]
> the
> second assignment below ereases all Currency knowledge from variable
> 'c', when the user only wanted to update the value of c, not its type:
> 
> c=Currency(5)
> c=7
> 
> I fully understand the workaround of doing c=Curreny(7) instead, but
> users don't want to be bothered with that.

I think you have a fundamental misunderstanding of how assignment works
in Python. In some languages (C for example) variables are things that
have a TYPE and a VALUE. You typically set the TYPE by declaring the
variable and typically can't change it. You typically set the VALUE
by assignment. In at least one case (C++ is the only example I know of)
you can override the meaning of assignment to variables of a certain
type.

In Python, variables do NOT have a type and a value. Instead, variables
have a single value, which is always some object. Objects have a type
(and sometimes a class also... I'm not going to worry about this
difference). But there's little connection between variables and types.
When we assign (actually, a better term is "rebind") a variable it can
be assigned to any object.
    >>> x = "a string"
    >>> x = 5
    >>> x = Currency(7)

I'm confident that what you want to achieve can be accomplished in
Python, you just have to adjust your mindset. In Python it's useful to
think of things in terms of namespaces. (See last line of
"http://www.awaretek.com/zen.html".) Namespaces are just dictionaries
-- and they're used throughout Python. When you write
    >>> x = "abc"
you are simply performing  __setitem__("x", "abc") on a namespace called
the "module globals". If you want, you can get ahold of this dictionary
via the function globals(), and you can see that manipulating it is just
the same as using "=".
    >>> x = 'a string'
    >>> theGlobals = globals()
    >>> print theGlobals
    {'__builtins__': <module '__builtin__' (built-in), '__name__':
    '__main__', 'theGlobals': {...}, '__doc__': None, 'x': 'a stri
    ng'}
    >>> theGlobals["y"] = 7
    >>> print y
    7
Function definition is just another operation on this namespace...
writing "def func(x): return x + 1" is (almost) the same as 
"globals()["x"] = lambda x: x + 1". When you use local variables 
within a function, you are manipulating another namespace, (for 
performance purposes it's not actually implemented as a dictionary,
but it acts as if it were... just call locals() to see it as a dict).

So when you say that you want your users to be able to do this:
    >>> x = Currency(5)
    >>> x = 7
and then have x be a Currency object, what you're *really* saying is
that you want to take over control of the namespace that your users
are working in so that they can't store just anything in it, but
are forced to store only Currency objects. Or perhaps you mean for
them to be able to store only Currency objects for any key which
was previously used for a Currency object. Or maybe you mean that
if they try storing a NUMBER in a slot which was previously used to
store a Currency object that a new Currency object should be stored
instead. Actually, I'm not quite certain what your requirements are,
but it's pretty clear to me that what you want is a special namespace
with custom behavior.

Well, Python provides special namespaces with customizable
behavior. They're called classes. Classes are just another namespace
("one honking great idea")... well, technically TWO namespaces:
one for the class itself and one for the individual object. Normally,
saying "myObject.x = 7" performs another dictionary assignment
(this dictionary is accessible as "myobject.__dict__"), but you can
use the special functions __getattr__, __setattr__, __delattr_, and
perhaps __getattribute__ to customize its behavior.

So I'm guessing that you can accomplish your objective by getting
your users to store their values as fields in an object and providing
customized behavior on that object. I was going to suggest that you
create a custom dict type (here's one that just prints stuff out
when modified... you could use any logic you wanted):

    >>> class NoisyDict(dict):
    ...     def __setitem__(self, key, value):
    ...         print 'setting %s to %r' % (key, value)
    ...         dict.__setitem__(self, key, value)
    ...

and that you then use it in an exec statement, like this:

    >>> exec "x = 7\nprint x" in NoisyDict()
    7

Unfortunately, it didn't work (that printed "7", but didn't print
"setting x to 7"), so you may need a slightly better guru than me
to get this working. Or if you can better describe your PARTICULAR
problem, I may be able to figure out how to approach it. But I'm
almost certain that there's a much easier way than changing how 
Python does assignments.

-- Michael Chermside





From efkw at fawekm.com  Fri Jul 25 16:29:15 2003
From: efkw at fawekm.com (Adam)
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 22:29:15 +0200
Subject: looping through a file
In-Reply-To: <3eaf6668$0$1030$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au>
References: <3eaf6668$0$1030$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au>
Message-ID: <bfs0ec$eq9$1@news.iucc.ac.il>

Psybar Phreak wrote:
> hi all - ive just started with python (after having done java and c) and am
> having a little bit of trouble with the script.  Im using as a login script.
> 
> There's a users.dat file in the format
> user1
> user1password
> user2
> user2password
> ... etc
> 
> at the moment - the code i work, only checks the first and second lines (ie.
> details of user1).  but it appears that python doesn't have a do... while...
> until loop.
> 
> 
> can anyone help?
> 
> thanks!!
> 
> Ive attached the appropriate part of the code i have working
> 
> -------------------------------
> 
> #!/usr/local/bin/python
> 
> import cgi, string
> 
> form = cgi.FieldStorage()
> 
> if form.has_key('usernameField') and form.has_key('passwordField'):
>          users_username = string.strip(form['usernameField'].value)
>          users_password = string.strip(form['passwordField'].value)
> 
> InFile = open('users.dat', 'r')
> 
> file_username = string.strip(InFile.readline())
> file_password = string.strip(InFile.readline())
> 
> 
> 
> 
> authorised = 0
> 
> while file_username and file_password:
>        if file_username == users_username:
>               if file_password == users_password: # correct
>              authorised = 1
>       break
>               else:                               # login matched but not
> password
>                     file_username = InFile.readline()
>              file_password = InFile.readline()
>        else: # neither match
>               file_username = InFile.readline()
>               file_password = InFile.readline()
> 
> 
use the readline method. take advantage of the fact that readline 
returns an empty string when it reaches EOF, and do:
while(line):
	line=readline




From grante at visi.com  Wed Jul 23 15:11:05 2003
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 23 Jul 2003 19:11:05 GMT
Subject: How to disable output messages of the child process, in spawnv( )?
References: <db3b6d24.0307231050.74d41e66@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3f1eddc9$0$160$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>

In article <db3b6d24.0307231050.74d41e66 at posting.google.com>, nushin wrote:
> I'd like to disable the output of the process spawned by spawnv( )
> API, but the catch is that i *have to* see the output of the parent
> process making the  spawnv( ) call. Has anyone done that? I have some
> pointers that by using dup2( ) API i might be able to do that, any
> ideas how? Also, i have to spawn as an asynch call, using P_NOWAIT,
> e.g.,:
> 
> os.spawnv(os.P_NOWAIT,'/usr/bin/python',('python','hello.py'),('>/dev/null &'))

Nope.  

The ">" and "&" are things that a shell (like bash or ksh)
handles.  The python interpreter has no idea what to do with
them.  If you want to use ">" and "&", then spawn a shell, and
pass it a command to run the python program with output
redirected.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  I'm RELIGIOUS!! I
                                  at               love a man with a
                               visi.com            HAIRPIECE!! Equip me with
                                                   MISSILES!!



From h.b.furuseth at usit.uio.no  Mon Jul 14 07:44:42 2003
From: h.b.furuseth at usit.uio.no (Hallvard B Furuseth (nospam nospam))
Date: 14 Jul 2003 13:44:42 +0200
Subject: path module
References: <mailman.1057651032.22842.python-list@python.org> <HBF.20030708keeu@bombur.uio.no> <mailman.1057687272.12913.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <HBF.20030714p6jh@bombur.uio.no>

Ian Bicking wrote:
>On Tue, 2003-07-08 at 09:52, Hallvard B Furuseth wrote:
>> If there is going to be a New Wonderful Path module, I suggest you give
>> some thought to paths on systems that don't fit the simple Unix/Windows
>> path model.  A path to a filename may e.g. looks different from a path
>> to a directory.  (...)
> 

> Interesting, but I think a bad idea.  (...)  If someone was using VMS
> paths, I would assume they would subclass path for that OS, adding the
> portions that applied.

It would be pointless to include _data structures_ for components that
are not supported on any system Python is ported to, but for subclassing
to make sense, some of the _interface_ would have to be in place.  Like
the possibility of usin path.joindir() vs. path.joinfile() or something
depending on whether the result should be a file or directory path.  And
just path.join() for people who don't care.  Assuming there will be a
join method, of course.

Also, you may need some special handling of 'device:' on Windows.

> I think it's unreasonable to expect people programming on normal
> platforms to pay attention to components like version, so even
> including it in a structured manner is asking for trouble.

I dunno.  People have already mentioned coming systems where versions
will be availbale.

-- 
Hallvard



From cybersamurai at mac.com  Fri Jul 11 09:40:05 2003
From: cybersamurai at mac.com (Luiz Siqueira Neto)
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 10:40:05 -0300
Subject: event on a panel inside of a wxHtmlwindow
Message-ID: <3F0EBE35.2070508@mac.com>

How I can handle events on a button in a panel inside of a wxHtmlwindow?





From tim.one at comcast.net  Sun Jul 27 18:25:35 2003
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 18:25:35 -0400
Subject: python assignment
In-Reply-To: <fbf8d8f2.0307241825.bd3b315@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCEEGOFAAB.tim.one@comcast.net>

[dan]
> ...
> Can I always assume that an operation of this sort will return a new
> object, even if it has no effect on one of the operands?

Yup.  From the "Objects, values and types" section of the Language (not
Library) Reference Manual:

    ... for immutable types, operations that compute new values may
    actually return a reference to any existing object with the same
    type and value, while for mutable objects this is not allowed.
    E.g., after "a = 1; b = 1", a and b may or may not refer to the
    same object with the value one, depending on the implementation,
    but after "c = []; d = []", c and d are guaranteed to refer to
    two different, unique, newly created empty lists. (Note that
    "c = d = []" assigns the same object to both c and d.)

Other implications are that, e.g., if L is a list and T is a tuple, after

    L2 = L + []
    T2 = T + ()

"L2 is L" must be False, but "T2 is T" may be True or False.  There aren't a
lot of optimizations of the latter type in CPython today; most of them
involve strings, where an empty-string operand is quite common:

>>> s = "a string"
>>> t = s + ""
>>> id(s) == id(t)
True
>>> t = "" + s
>>> id(s) == id(t)
True
>>> t = ''.join([s])
>>> id(s) == id(t)
True
>>>





From belred1 at yahoo.com  Mon Jul 14 02:28:09 2003
From: belred1 at yahoo.com (Bryan)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 06:28:09 GMT
Subject: anything like C++ references?
References: <b8c3hvsesjoumiboobml3nsnajtha99mp1@4ax.com> <mailman.1058129901.28248.python-list@python.org> <plk3hv0s1m2egf4s34jo6vjedk0q8r2mu9@4ax.com> <hflQa.48826$wk6.12216@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net> <rp94hvc8fg6h91oe7ctqq9jn9ku3nlud1k@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <Z3sQa.50347$wk6.13077@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net>

"Stephen Horne" <intentionally at blank.co.uk> wrote in message
news:rp94hvc8fg6h91oe7ctqq9jn9ku3nlud1k at 4ax.com...
> On Sun, 13 Jul 2003 22:42:21 GMT, "Bryan" <belred1 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >> 3.  Why is there no way to reference an immutable object via a
> >> pointer, other than stuffing it into a mutable object designed for
> >> some purpose other than simple pointer behaviour?
> >>
> >
> >>>> a = (1, 2, 3)
> >>>> b = a
> >>>> id(a)
> >15471760
> >>>> id(b)
> >15471760
> >>>> print b[1]
> >2
> >>>>
> >
> >
> >i just referenced an immutable object via a "pointer" and i __did_not__
> >stuff it into a mutable object as you say.
> >a and b "point" to the same object.
>
> Technically, but what is the point? You can't do pointer-style things
> with it. You can't change the object in any way without changing the
> id, and you can't use the mechanism to, for instance, allow 'var'
> parameters.
>

can you show what functionality is missing by not being able to do
"pointer-style things"?  here are two variables:

a = (1, 2, 3)
b = [1, 2, 3]

one immutable, one mutable.  please show an example of what "pointer-style
things" you would like to do.

i've read this entire thread so far, and from a practical point of view
(because that's all i really care about and what pays the bills), i really
don't understand what the problem is.  personally, i don't care about the
strict definitions of computer science terms and what "variable" or
"pointer" means.  i do care about how fast problems can be solved, how much
resources must be involved in solving that problem, and how much money can
be made/saved.  for me, python is a winner in all this area.  not having
pointers like c/c++ is such a blessing.  i can't believe anyone would even
suggest that pointers and/or doing things with pointers be brought into
python.  ok... one more time... let's bring this conversation down to
something practical.   please show an example of pointer-style functionality
in any language that is missing/awkward/complicated in python.  i'm not an
expert in python, i'm just very curious to understand what the true
practical issue is.

thanks,

bryan

> In short, you are showing evidence of the use of pointers internally
> within Python, but that is not the same as providing pointer-like
> semantics.
>





From hokiegal99 at hotmail.com  Wed Jul 16 08:57:33 2003
From: hokiegal99 at hotmail.com (hokiegal99)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 08:57:33 -0400
Subject: <> and !=
References: <3F154B63.3060503@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <3F154BBD.2060304@hotmail.com>

that sould be:

if newfile <> oldfile
if newfile != oldfile




From http  Thu Jul 10 21:45:17 2003
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 10 Jul 2003 18:45:17 -0700
Subject: Securing 'pickle'
References: <pan.2003.07.11.01.20.47.998070@127.0.0.1> <slrnbgs4hc.hop.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>
Message-ID: <7x1xwxu98y.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Ben Finney <bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au> writes:
> Why not store the pickles on the server, and set a session cookie to
> refer to them?  That way, you only send a short session ID instead of
> the whole pickle, and messing with the cookie doesn't alter the pickles.

Because now you need a mechanism to store the session info on the
server, and you might want it to work across multiple load-balanced
servers that fail over to one another, etc.

To the OP: I'd be very careful of any attempt to unpickle untrusted
strings.  At minimum I'd say you should authenticate your cookies to
make sure no one has messed with them.  Configure a secret string into
the server, and use the hmac module to append a MAC to each cookie and
check the MAC before unpickling.  Or use that BitTorrent serializer
but modify it to include floats if you need that.



From madsurfer2000 at hotmail.com  Mon Jul 21 14:01:31 2003
From: madsurfer2000 at hotmail.com (-)
Date: 21 Jul 2003 11:01:31 -0700
Subject: Strings and Unicode
References: <fef0a228.0307200027.2ef962e9@posting.google.com> <fef0a228.0307200828.6c171de7@posting.google.com> <c76ff6fc.0307201651.34040c07@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <fef0a228.0307211001.13a48146@posting.google.com>

sjmachin at lexicon.net (John Machin) wrote in message news:<c76ff6fc.0307201651.34040c07 at posting.google.com>...
> madsurfer2000 at hotmail.com (-) wrote in message news:<fef0a228.0307200828.6c171de7 at posting.google.com>...
> > 
> > I would have expected the following:
> > ['param=abc+%E6']
> 
> So would I. See below. However despite the fact that the last
> character in your 'value' shows up as "small ae ligature" in MSIE, we
> would really like to see some code of yours that *minimally* and
> *unambiguously* shows the problem, and can be executed in the minimal
> Python environment (i.e. sans gui, command prompt, again: see below).
> 

Turns out it wasn't Python's fault. I used IDLE, and it saved the
program in UTF-8 format. I didn't think of checking that before,
because I assumed it wouldn't save in that format. When the parameters
were sent to urlencode, it was interpreted as 8 bit characters. The
'?'-character ("small ae ligature")is represented as 2 characters in
UTF-8, so urlencode() encoded them separatly.

The solution was to open the file in Notepad (!) and save it in a
different format. When I ran the program again, it produced the
expected results.

Is there any way I can use IDLE, and still save in ISO-Latin1? The
problem is probably related to the input from the keyboard.

It seems that I can edit the file after I have converted it from
UTF-8, and keep the encoding if I use the lower part of the character
set. If I press the '?' key on the keyboard, the character is
translated to a 2 byte representation, but the other characters are
left alone.



From lists at gregfortune.com  Thu Jul 31 17:09:02 2003
From: lists at gregfortune.com (Greg Fortune)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 14:09:02 -0700
Subject: SQL2000 database vs python, using mssqldb
References: <mailman.1059677327.3807.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <iqfWa.3638$Jk5.2893921@feed2.centurytel.net>

It appears you are using the api correctly assuming mssqldb provides the
Python v2.0 db api.  You can find that document at
http://python.org/peps/pep-0249.html  You'll have to check the mssqldb
packages for specific documentation about any changes/limitations in that
module.

Greg Fortune
Fortune Solutions


Raaijmakers, Vincent (IndSys, GE Interlogix) wrote:

> First of all, thanks for all the help guys!
> 
> Until now, lots of install problems on all the recommended
> packages/modules.
> 
> For now, my best option was to make use of my existing Pyro framework
> (thanks Irmen!) I already build a MSSQL (Pyro/server)service on the
> windows box using mssqldb. My linux app will talk to this service.
> This at least has been installed successful and my service can already
> connect to the database.
> 
> So far so good: Now, I can't find the API of MSSQL. Not on the website nor
> in the installed folders. So, I tried to use the examples and only the
> connections seems successful. When I try a select on a table, it tells me
> that the table name is an invalid object name.
> 
> Just tried a kind of a hello world example...
> 
> import mssqldb
> import MSSQL
> db = MSSQL.connect('my_db_server', 'user', 'password', 'my_database')
> ## so far, so good
> 
> c = db.cursor()
> c.execute('select * from my_table')
> ## boom, error
> 
> c.fetchall()
> c.nextset()
> 
> The ms sql enterprise manager shows me that the database and table is
> there. Unfortunately, in python the error tells me: Invalid object name
> 'my_table'
> 
> Anyone with experience?
> Where are the API's?
> 
> Vincent




From fale.delete at remove.skidata.com  Thu Jul 24 06:39:27 2003
From: fale.delete at remove.skidata.com (Leopold Faschalek)
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 12:39:27 +0200
Subject: How to do raw Ethernet under Win32?
References: <3f1ed31a$0$181$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
Message-ID: <GHOTa.3$dA6.755814@news.salzburg-online.at>

"Grant Edwards" <grante at visi.com> wrote in message
news:3f1ed31a$0$181$a1866201 at newsreader.visi.com...
> How does one do raw Ethernet under Win32?  Ultimately, I want
> to do it in a Python program, but if somebody can point me to a
> clue on how to do it from C, I could probably figure out the
> rest.
>
> I want to:
>
>  1) Send an arbitrary Ethernet packet.  [Well, not completely
>     arbitrary, the source MAC will be "right", but the protocol
>     number is a proprietary (not IP) one, and the packet isn't
>     anything standard.
>
>  2) Receive any incoming packets with a specified protocl
>     number -- same proto number as in 1) above.
>
> I've got a program that works under Linux, and I'd like to be
> able to port it to Win32...
>

the new winsock2.h supports more socket types:
/*
 * Types
 */
#define SOCK_STREAM     1               /* stream socket */
#define SOCK_DGRAM      2               /* datagram socket */
#define SOCK_RAW        3               /* raw-protocol interface */
#define SOCK_RDM        4               /* reliably-delivered message */
#define SOCK_SEQPACKET  5               /* sequenced packet stream */

so you have only to define 3 as type in the socket() call

greetings
Leopold Faschalek

> --
> Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  I have seen these
>                                   at               EGG EXTENDERS in my
>                                visi.com            Supermarket... I have
read
>                                                    theINSTRUCTIONS...





From reply.in.the.newsgroup at my.address.is.invalid  Tue Jul  8 13:43:58 2003
From: reply.in.the.newsgroup at my.address.is.invalid (Rene Pijlman)
Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 19:43:58 +0200
Subject: COM Programming
References: <6308fa3f.0307080220.5889317b@posting.google.com> <iqmlgv06i97bu1lrcvmd5j6jafnoo8mp3g@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <bh0mgvo21k82lvjjf9hd067ht3s0kcjm6g@4ax.com>

Rene Pijlman:
>http://safari.oreilly.com/JVXSL.asp?x=1&mode=section&sortKey=rank&sortOrder=desc&view=book&xmlid=1-56592-621-8&open=false&g=&srchText=python+win32&code=&h=&m=&l=1&catid=&s=1&b=1&f=1&t=1&c=1&u=1&r=&o=1&page=0

__eq__ http://safari.oreilly.com/1565926218

-- 
Ren? Pijlman



From rnd at onego.ru  Thu Jul  3 12:10:59 2003
From: rnd at onego.ru (Roman Suzi)
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 20:10:59 +0400 (MSD)
Subject: Paul Baranowski (from Peekabooty) language of choice
In-Reply-To: <33803989.0307030252.58dab0b0@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0307032010140.3456-100000@rnd.onego.ru>

On 3 Jul 2003, Miki Tebeka wrote:

>Hello All,
>
>FYI:
>http://peek-a-booty.org/Docs/WhichLanguageDoYouRecommend.htm
>coming from:
>http://www.peek-a-booty.org/pbhtml/index.php

I hope this will not lead to banning Python in China...


Sincerely yours, Roman Suzi
-- 
rnd at onego.ru =\= My AI powered by GNU/Linux RedHat 7.3





From mis6 at pitt.edu  Mon Jul 28 17:55:48 2003
From: mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato)
Date: 28 Jul 2003 14:55:48 -0700
Subject: mixin class
References: <3F24F8D2.E1ADFB08@web.de>
Message-ID: <2259b0e2.0307281355.34725f83@posting.google.com>

Udo Gleich <udo.gleich at web.de> wrote in message news:<3F24F8D2.E1ADFB08 at web.de>...
> Hi,
> 
> I try to implement mixin classes. Thats why I
> need to make a new class at runtime.
> 
> --tmp.py-------------------------------------
> 
> import new
> 
> class K1(object):
>     pass
> 
> class K2(object):
>     pass
> 
> mixed =  new.classobj("K1_K2", (K1, K1), {})
> new_instance = new.instance(mixed, {})
> 
> print new_instance
> 
> ---------------------------------------------
> 
> Making a new instance from the new class works
> only if K1 is not derived from object. If I use
> new style classes I get the following traceback:
> 
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "tmp.py", line 10, in ?
>     new_instance = new.instance(mixed, {})
> TypeError: instance() argument 1 must be class, not type
> 
> I use Python 2.2.3 and Win2000.
> 
> My question: How do I implement mixin classes
> with new style classes?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Udo

Why not simply
 
 class K1(object):
     pass
 
 class K2(object):
     pass
 
 mixed =  type("K1_K2", (K1, K1), {})
 new_instance = mixed()

 print new_instance
 
?

"type" is described in http://www.python.org/2.2.3/descrintro.html
(in one line very easy to miss ;)


      Michele



From bgailer at alum.rpi.edu  Wed Jul  2 11:37:45 2003
From: bgailer at alum.rpi.edu (Bob Gailer)
Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 09:37:45 -0600
Subject: Problems with io.
In-Reply-To: <8e35bad8.0307020516.55bb1ddc@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20030702092803.023ccfe8@66.28.54.253>

At 06:16 AM 7/2/2003 -0700, freone wrote:

>Hello,
>some time ago I started to learn python, today i wanted make a very
>samll and simple program.
>file = open("test.txt", "r+")
>file.readlines()
>file.close()
>And it doesn't work...
>Why?

ATTENTION EVERYONE who submits a problem...PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE tell us 
what the problem is (how you are running it, expected behavior, actual 
results, exceptions, ...). Without that info we have NO way to help, and we 
are frustrated as a result.

Having said that here's my guess. If you are running this code from a file 
(either by C>python filename.py or by import filename and you see no output 
then the program IS working.

If you want output you'll need to use print, as in print file.readlines().

BTW file is a python builtin, and it's a good idea to not use it as a 
variable. In fact file is the new and preferred alternative to open:

fileA = file("test.txt", "r+")
fileA.readlines()
fileA.close()


Bob Gailer
bgailer at alum.rpi.edu
303 442 2625
-------------- next part --------------

---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.492 / Virus Database: 291 - Release Date: 6/24/2003

From grante at visi.com  Thu Jul 24 00:06:21 2003
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 24 Jul 2003 04:06:21 GMT
Subject: How to do raw Ethernet under Win32?
References: <3f1ed31a$0$181$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <3f1ee77f$0$160$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <mailman.1058996376.9482.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrnbhung3.180.grante@localhost.localdomain>

In article <mailman.1058996376.9482.python-list at python.org>, Gerhard H?ring wrote:
>
>> It looks like I can _almost_ do what I want with the python
>> wrapper around the windows pcap lib.
> 
> Where's PyLibpCap for Windows available?

Here's where I got it from:

  http://ghaering.de/python/unsupported/pylibpcap/  ;)

I'd take a whack at finishing it, but I don't have a Windows C compiler.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  Did you find a
                                  at               DIGITAL WATCH in YOUR box
                               visi.com            of VELVEETA??



From bgailer at alum.rpi.edu  Sat Jul 12 17:11:54 2003
From: bgailer at alum.rpi.edu (Bob Gailer)
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 15:11:54 -0600
Subject: any such thing as list interleaving?
In-Reply-To: <hat0hv49g0e6bf3770c6df2cukknd5vak2@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20030712150942.02a9ee28@66.28.54.253>

At 02:00 PM 7/12/2003 -0700, Tom Plunket wrote:

>I find myself often doing the following sort of thing (sorry for
>lack of whitespace, I don't want the line to break):
>
>for entry, index in map(lambda e,i:(e,i),aList,range(len(aList)):
>    # ...
>
>This definitely seems like a roundabout way to loop through
>parallel lists together.  Is this map routine truly the easiest/
>best/most straight-forward way to do a for loop through parallel
>lists, if I feel that the Python anti-idom of:
>
>for index in range(len(myList)):
>    entry = aList(index)
>    anotherEntry = anotherList(index)
>    # ...

mergedList = zip(aList, anotherList)

>This also brings up a similar problem for me when iterating over dictionaries:
>
>for key in myDict:
>    value = myDict[key]
>    # ...
>
>This seems a pretty sloppy way to go about it, imo.  There must be 
>something more in the Python spirit!  :)

for key, value in myDict.items():

Bob Gailer
bgailer at alum.rpi.edu
303 442 2625
-------------- next part --------------

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From BPettersen at NAREX.com  Wed Jul 23 04:40:08 2003
From: BPettersen at NAREX.com (Bjorn Pettersen)
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 02:40:08 -0600
Subject: python assignment
Message-ID: <60FB8BB7F0EFC7409B75EEEC13E2019202CE46E6@admin56.narex.com>

> From: Juha Autero [mailto:Juha.Autero at iki.fi] 
> 
> "Tim Peters" <tim.one at comcast.net> writes:
> 
> > It would be very unusual (because bad design) for the __iadd__
> > method of a mutable type to return a pre-existing object, though.
> 
> I'm confused. I thought that the idea of __iadd__ is that for
> *mutable* types it modifies existing object instead of returning new
> one. So, was that a typo or are Python lists just bad desing:
[...]

"... mutable type to return a[nother] pre-existing..."
"... return a pre-existing object [besides iteself]..."

context?'ly y'rs
-- bjorn




From srovner at us.ibm.com  Fri Jul 25 08:37:02 2003
From: srovner at us.ibm.com (Sonia Rovner)
Date: 25 Jul 2003 05:37:02 -0700
Subject: How to import hackicon.dll
References: <8a5a6d82.0307240417.494caa13@posting.google.com> <ef100524.0307242124.30fc7bc1@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <8a5a6d82.0307250437.72f9b29a@posting.google.com>

336699 at emailaccount.com (336699) wrote in message news:<ef100524.0307242124.30fc7bc1 at posting.google.com>...
> srovner at us.ibm.com (Sonia Rovner) wrote in message news:<8a5a6d82.0307240417.494caa13 at posting.google.com>...
> > Hello,
> > I'm using Python2.2.1 and Tcl/Tk 8.3 running on Win2000.  I've been
> > researching how to change the icon on the title bar and found that
> > hackicon is the one I should pursue.  However, hackicon package uses a
> > dll.  When I run the hi.py, I get an error saying
> >     ImportError: DLL load failed: The specified module could not be
> > found.
> > I copied hackicon.dll to various directories in my pythonpath but
> > nothing happens.
> 
> Use tkIcon
> 
> http://effbot.org/downloads/index.cgi/tkicon-0.9-19980218.zip
I didn't have much luck with tkIcon either.  It required installing
PIL so that the import image works.  I was hoping not to have to
install another libray. Maybe    I don't have any choice. Thanks all.
Sonia



From maxm at mxm.dk  Wed Jul 16 07:44:35 2003
From: maxm at mxm.dk (Max M)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 13:44:35 +0200
Subject: How about using python to write a CMS?
In-Reply-To: <bf38et$sp9$1@news.seed.net.tw>
References: <bf38et$sp9$1@news.seed.net.tw>
Message-ID: <3f153a2b$0$97201$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>

?????? wrote:

> To write a CMS, everyone is thinking about PHP, but, what do you think if I
> am using python to write a Content Management System?


It can be done, and better than in PHP, but do yourself the favour of 
checking out Plone.

www.plone.org


regards Max M




From abelikov72 at hotmail.com  Tue Jul  8 12:12:01 2003
From: abelikov72 at hotmail.com (Afanasiy)
Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 16:12:01 GMT
Subject: Python vs PHP
References: <mailman.1057574470.1750.python-list@python.org> <kmolgv4mp12o71ocion7ra0m2s9fcrqjdk@4ax.com> <slrnbglqp8.os1.jon+usenet@snowy.squish.net>
Message-ID: <h7rlgvkogjr3t8geb36v6jjk4u5n9cdm2s@4ax.com>

On 8 Jul 2003 16:02:48 GMT, Jon Ribbens <jon+usenet at unequivocal.co.uk>
wrote:

>In article <kmolgv4mp12o71ocion7ra0m2s9fcrqjdk at 4ax.com>, Afanasiy wrote:
>> A couple other slight issues :
>> 
>> * catch-all error handling not as flexible or non-existent
>> * no equivalent to php_value auto_prepend_file "_header.php"
>> * no equivalent to php_value auto_append_file "_footer.php"
>> * not as intelligent form value handling
>> * white space sensitivity is a unique problem when embedding
>
>Try jonpy (http://jonpy.sf.net/), it solves all of the above.
>Also you may find FastCGI (which jonpy supports) helps with your
>"safe mode" problem, although it might require a bit of hackery.

No, CGI is not an option and I tried jonpy. I kept my notes about it...



From h.goebel at goebel-consult.de  Wed Jul 23 07:49:50 2003
From: h.goebel at goebel-consult.de (Hartmut Goebel)
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 13:49:50 +0200
Subject: Perl -> Python hopeless?
In-Reply-To: <3f182c9a$0$276$ba620e4c@reader0.news.skynet.be>
References: <3f182c9a$0$276$ba620e4c@reader0.news.skynet.be>
Message-ID: <3f1e7654$0$6755$9b4e6d93@newsread2.arcor-online.net>

Helmut Jarausch schrieb:

> Is there a tool to lesson the burdon of translation of Perl to Python?

You may try bridgekeeper (http://www.crazy-compilers.com/bridgekeeper/).
But typically it' better to completly rewrite the code since Python
offers different features.

Regards
Hartmut Goebel
-- 
| Hartmut Goebel             | IT-Security -- effizient |
| h.goebel at goebel-consult.de | www.goebel-consult.de    |




From piet at cs.uu.nl  Sun Jul 13 10:08:59 2003
From: piet at cs.uu.nl (Piet van Oostrum)
Date: 13 Jul 2003 16:08:59 +0200
Subject: Any pure-python relational databases?
References: <pan.2003.07.12.14.11.19.428895@127.0.0.1> <2a897f11.0307121143.4a37113b@posting.google.com>
 <pan.2003.07.13.02.12.39.725180@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <wz8yr27c3o.fsf@nono.cs.uu.nl>

>>>>> David McNab <postmaster at 127.0.0.1> (DM) wrote:

DM> On Sat, 12 Jul 2003 12:43:25 -0700, Wayne Pierce paused, took a deep
DM> breath, then came out with:

>>> 2) Any kind of relational DBMS written in pure python that'll run on
>>> 1.5.2?
>> 
>> While not relational, have you looked at Metakit?
>> 
>> http://www.equi4.com/metakit/python.html

DM> I got Metakit to compile for Python 1.5.2 without undue drama, just a
DM> couple of makefile hacks.

DM> Uploaded the shared lib and the python wrapper to the host, and it runs
DM> just fine.

DM> What a sweet little dbms!

You must, however, be aware of multitasking issues, certainly on a web
site. When more than one request comes in at your site at approximately
the same time and they want to make modifications in your database, the
modifications may interact in a non-intended way, even to the point that
they may corrupt your database. Some file locking should be applied to
serialize the updates (and probably the reads as well with respect to the
updates). Metakit doesn't have record locking, unfortunately.
-- 
Piet van Oostrum <piet at cs.uu.nl>
URL: http://www.cs.uu.nl/~piet [PGP]
Private email: P.van.Oostrum at hccnet.nl



From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Tue Jul  8 14:10:49 2003
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 19:10:49 +0100
Subject: anything new on the ternary operator?
References: <3F09E4B4.FED89C06@alcyone.com> <3F09252F.9B0F52BD@alcyone.com>
 <mailman.1057533670.9800.python-list@python.org>
 <beae42$d01$1@panix2.panix.com>
 <mailman.1057574950.16136.python-list@python.org>
 <mailman.1057642872.21988.python-list@python.org>
 <40a939c9.0307080622.3118cfd7@posting.google.com>
 <mailman.1057676413.31729.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <2UVsCJApkwC$EwTg@jessikat.demon.co.uk>

In article <mailman.1057676413.31729.python-list at python.org>, Skip
Montanaro <skip at pobox.com> writes
>
>    >> [The consensus in EP was that Israel was in Europe]
>
>    Alia> Sorry, I am confused: isn't Israel in the Middle East?
>
>Sure, but what continent is the the Middle East in, Europe, Asia or Africa?
>I had to make the same decision in Musi-Cal.  I decided that Israel was part
>of Europe.  The decision wasn't entirely arbitrary.  Most concert dates we
>list for Asia are in Japan, Korea or Hong Kong.  There are almost never any
>African concert dates listed.  Israel was close enough to Europe that it
>made sense to group it there.
>
>Skip
>
>
the Middle East is certainly not in Europe at least according to
classical authors, historians & geographers. Asia begins across the
Hellespont so asiatic Turkey, Iraq, Syria, Palestine are not in Europe
and neither is the Israeli territory. I suspect Israelis would prefer to
be in America so that they wouldn't have to take part in the Eurovision
song contest.
-- 
Robin Becker



From sismex01 at hebmex.com  Mon Jul 14 16:38:23 2003
From: sismex01 at hebmex.com (sismex01 at hebmex.com)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 15:38:23 -0500
Subject: % operator -- did Python or C++/boost come first?
Message-ID: <F7DB8D13DB61D511B6FF00B0D0F062330567778A@mail.hebmex.com>

> From: roy at panix.com [mailto:roy at panix.com] 
> Sent: Lunes, 14 de Julio de 2003 03:28 p.m.
> 
> Up until recently, Python was the only language I'd ever seen that
> used the % operator for string replacement.  Today, I was perusing the
> C++ Boost libraries, and discoverd that boost::format uses a very
> similar syntax.  The following lines print the same thing in Python
> and C++, respectively.
> 
> print "int->%i, string->%s" % (42, "wugga, wugga")
> cout << boost::format ("int->%i, string->%s\n") % 42 % "wugga, wugga";
> 
> The question is, which came first?  Did boost adapt the Python syntax,
> or the other way around, or did they both evolve in parallel?  I'm not
> talking about the use of % in the C/printf style format specifier, but
> the use of % as an operator to connect the format specifier with the
> data to be formatted.
>

I don't think anybody copied anybody's idea, rather, it's quite
logical to think up "%" as a string-formatting operator, because
of it's ties with it's use in printf() style format strings.

-gustavo


Advertencia:La informacion contenida en este mensaje es confidencial y
restringida, por lo tanto esta destinada unicamente para el uso de la
persona arriba indicada, se le notifica que esta prohibida la difusion de
este mensaje. Si ha recibido este mensaje por error, o si hay problemas en
la transmision, favor de comunicarse con el remitente. Gracias.




From alanmk at hotmail.com  Sun Jul 20 11:30:49 2003
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 16:30:49 +0100
Subject: xml processing and sys.setdefaultencoding
References: <bfe4it$8ra$02$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <3F1AB5A9.1C8847E1@hotmail.com>

christof hoeke wrote:

> i wrote a small application which extracts a javadoc similar
> documentation
> for xslt stylesheets using python, xslt and pyana.
> using non-ascii characters was a problem. 

That's odd. Did your stylesheets contain non-ascii characters? If yes,
did you declare the character encoding at the beginning of the
document, e.g.

"<?xml version="1.0" encoding="iso-8859-1"?>

> so i set the [python] defaultending to
> UTF-8 and now everything works (at least it seems so, need to do more
> testing though).

If you don't put an encoding declaration in your XML documents
(including XSLT style/transform sheets), then an XML parser would by
default treat the document content as UTF-(8|16), as the XML standard
mandates.

Are you working from XML documents which are stored as strings inside
a python module? In which case, your special characters will actually
be encoded in whatever encoding your python module is stored. So you
might need to put an encoding declaration on your python module:-

http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0263.html

> it may not be the most elegant solution (according to python in a
> nutshell)
> but it almost seems when doing xml processing it is mandatory to set the
> default encoding. xml processing should almost only work with unicode
> strings and this seems the easiest solution.

It is always recommended to explicitly state the encoding on your XML
documents. If you don't, then the parser assumes UTF-(8|16). If your
documents aren't really UTF-(8|16), then you will get seemingly random
mapping of characters to other characters.

> any comments on this? better ways to work

If you're not dealing specifically with ASCII, then declare your
encodings, in both your python modules and your xml documents. Find
out what is the default character set used by your text editor. Find
out how to change which character set is in use. 

If you create, sell or maintain text editing or processing software,
make it easy for your users to find out what character encodings are
in effect.

HTH,

-- 
alan kennedy
-----------------------------------------------------
check http headers here: http://xhaus.com/headers
email alan:              http://xhaus.com/mailto/alan



From ianb at colorstudy.com  Sat Jul 12 18:56:57 2003
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: 12 Jul 2003 17:56:57 -0500
Subject: anything like C++ references?
In-Reply-To: <000301c348c7$3c501980$21795418@dell1700>
References: <000301c348c7$3c501980$21795418@dell1700>
Message-ID: <1058050617.28466.279.camel@lothlorien>

On Sat, 2003-07-12 at 17:45, Brian Quinlan wrote:
> > void change(int& i)
> > {
> >    i++;
> > }
> 
> The idiomatic way to write this code in python would be:
> 
> def change(val):
> 	return val + 1

To be more specific, you would achieve the same effect with:

def change(val):
    return val + 1
i = change(i)

As opposed to the C++ where you'd do:

change(i) // no assignment needed


There is no direct Python equivalent to the C++ function, for all sorts
of reasons (most of them very deliberate).

Is there someplace in particular to reference people who need to learn
about what Python variables are (that they are bindings, etc)?  This
question comes up in many forms all the time, particularly from people
with a C background.  Or rather, there are many questions all of which
are answered by that explanation (so we can't expect people to stop
asking, but maybe we can make the answers easier and clearer).  Or maybe
a general Python-for-C-programmers tutorial...

  Ian






From jjl at pobox.com  Sat Jul 12 18:03:34 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 12 Jul 2003 23:03:34 +0100
Subject: Python Mystery Theatre -- Episode 1:  Exceptions
References: <UiOPa.3259$Y92.1224@nwrdny01.gnilink.net> <3F0FC088.3C56EDEA@alcyone.com> <bep6l2$a1g$1@panix3.panix.com>
Message-ID: <87y8z34d3d.fsf@pobox.com>

aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) writes:

> In article <3F0FC088.3C56EDEA at alcyone.com>,
> Erik Max Francis  <max at alcyone.com> wrote:
[...]
> >> Prohibited: <unprintable instance object>
> >
> >Is this some IDLE-specific thing?  
> 
> Nope, the point here is that
> 
> raise Prohibited
> 
> will always create a Prohibited() instance.  (See also Peter's post
> about One True Way for exceptions.)

Perhaps Erik was wondering, as I was, where that "<unprintable instance
object>" came from.  On my machine, 2.3b1 doesn't print that in
response to Raymond's example code.  Maybe it's from 2.3b2 (which I'm
downloading ATM), or IDLE, or something else?


John



From skip at pobox.com  Thu Jul 24 16:14:42 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 15:14:42 -0500
Subject: Regex: Limiting Scope without capturing results
In-Reply-To: <173ef463.0307240355.cf896bb@posting.google.com>
References: <173ef463.0307240355.cf896bb@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <16160.15922.601581.172169@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    Gordon> If I remove the ()s around the string|float|color match it stops
    Gordon> matching anything, so is there an alternative to these ? Or a
    Gordon> way of telling them to limit the scope of the match without
    Gordon> capturing the result ?

Sure, use (?:<pattern>).  Full details at 11:

    http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/re-syntax.html

Skip




From hokiegal99 at hotmail.com  Sun Jul  6 11:41:40 2003
From: hokiegal99 at hotmail.com (hokiegal99)
Date: Sun, 06 Jul 2003 11:41:40 -0400
Subject: Calculating Year, Month and Day of Life
In-Reply-To: <be87f5$28755$1@ID-130333.news.dfncis.de>
References: <be72ph$k60$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <be87f5$28755$1@ID-130333.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <be9fnl$3t4$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>

Cousin Stanley wrote:
> hokiegal ...
> 
>   I spent 1971-1978 as a graduate student at VPI
>   chained to a lab bench over in Davidson Hall,
>   so I actually know what a  Hokie  is ...
> 
>   Best of luck with your Python endeavors ...

Thanks Cousin Stanley! I'm learning as much about Python as I can. I 
like it because it has both a theorhetical/academic side and a 
practical/get-stuff-done side. It also helps me to better understand C, 
C++ and Java. It's great.

I was class of 1998 at Virginia Tech. The VT degree has been good for 
me!  When it comes to tech schools... there's no place like Virginia 
Tech. Go Hokies!!!






From tzot at sil-tec.gr  Mon Jul 21 10:41:50 2003
From: tzot at sil-tec.gr (Christos TZOTZIOY Georgiou)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 17:41:50 +0300
Subject: Using Loops to track user input
References: <bea0p6$17f$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <mailman.1057530189.2831.python-list@python.org> <3F08E00F.69360669@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <atunhv811ti1qvc3l6vu6i7p0m5nhknc46@4ax.com>

On Sun, 06 Jul 2003 22:50:55 -0400, rumours say that Peter Hansen
<peter at engcorp.com> might have written:

>Gerhard H?ring wrote:
>> 
>> hokiegal99 wrote:
>> > I don't understand how to use a loop to keep track of user input. Could
>> > someone show me how to do what the program below does with a loop?
>> 
>> Your text book or tutorial should show that quite well, but here we go:
>[snip]
>> If your prof is any good, (s)he reads this newsgroup as well ;-)
>
>You missed this one Gerhard.  In another thread, hokiegal99 already
>told us "I am a funeral director trying to write a small program that 
>calculates the number of years, months and days a person has lived by 
>entering the year, month and day of their birth. ..."

This is true.  However, doesn't hokiegal99's comment at the start of the
example code:

> #Write a program that reads 10 numbers from the user and prints out the 
> sum of those numbers.

seem a little 'textbookish'?  Who's the first person of this imperative
sentence, and who's the user? :)  Although it's not improbable that
hokiegal99 is indeed a funeral director having their first contact with
programming using a textbook.  I remember that it took me a couple of
days to understand loops (at the age of eleven)...

BTW computers really spoil us... now that I visited the memory lane, I
recall that, having a chemistry exam at the age of seventeen, it took me
a quarter of an hour to solve a generic exercise and ten more minutes to
remember how to do a division by pen and paper (ok, I should take
anxiety into account, but it's still funny :)
-- 
TZOTZIOY, I speak England very best,
Microsoft Security Alert: the Matrix began as open source.



From dave at pythonapocrypha.com  Thu Jul  3 13:44:05 2003
From: dave at pythonapocrypha.com (Dave Brueck)
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 10:44:05 -0700
Subject: A story about Python... sort of
In-Reply-To: <3F043B22.19FE79AE@engcorp.com>
References: <3f03f430$0$97222$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk> <KwWMa.3332$Aw.3042@twister.nyc.rr.com> <3F043B22.19FE79AE@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <200307031044.05386.dave@pythonapocrypha.com>

On Thursday 03 July 2003 07:18 am, Peter Hansen wrote:
> Max Khesin wrote:
> > import flame.*
> > import sorry.*
> > Ok, with all my respect to python, the stuff about C++ is a bunch of
> > hooey. Compilation time is the problem? Give me a break.
> > 1) separate compilation?
> > 2) precompiled headers?
> > 3) tools that allow cluster compilation?
> > 4) ever read 'large-scale c++ development' by Lacos? a must for large c++
> > project. letter-envelope idiom to help compilation...etc.
>
> Sounds to me that if they've come up with so many and such a wide
> range of optimizations to improve compilation time, then it clearly *is*
> a problem...

Yep! I just read an article in the July issue of Game Developer that mentioned 
this topic (item #3 above) in passing. It was a post-mortem of the project 
and they cited as one of their life-savers a tool that used all computers in 
the office to assist in the compilation of the game - a compilation farm 
basically - so that the full rebuild of the game could be reduced to only 3 
minutes. Obviously you don't need to do a "rebuild all" for every change to 
the code, but compilation and link time is a very real cost, especially as 
the project size grows. Even for small projects though, I'm much more likely 
to try out small, incremental changes in a language like Python than when I 
did C++ or Java because it's just so quick and easy to try it out.

-Dave




From kent at NOSPAMspringfed.com  Mon Jul 21 07:32:56 2003
From: kent at NOSPAMspringfed.com (Kent Tenney)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 06:32:56 -0500
Subject: distutils.core not in Debian python2.2 package
In-Reply-To: <qnk7k6c37au.fsf@arbutus.physics.mcmaster.ca>
References: <pfjSa.730$zu1.8428@reggie.win.bright.net> <qnkbrvq2glk.fsf@arbutus.physics.mcmaster.ca> <bAuSa.747$zu1.8518@reggie.win.bright.net> <qnk7k6c37au.fsf@arbutus.physics.mcmaster.ca>
Message-ID: <UcQSa.795$zu1.9043@reggie.win.bright.net>


David M. Cooke wrote:

> At some point, Kent Tenney <kent at NOSPAMspringfed.com> wrote:
> 
> 
>>David M. Cooke wrote:
>>
>>>At some point, Kent Tenney <kent at NOSPAMspringfed.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Howdy,
>>>>
>>>>I did;
>>>># apt-get install python2.2
>>>>
>>>># python
>>>>Python 2.2.1
>>>>...
>>>>
>>>>then checked docutils out of CVS
>>>>and did;
>>>>
>>>>docutils# python ./setup.py install
>>>>
>>>>ImportError: No module named distutils.core
>>>>
>>>>How do I install distutils?
>>>
>>>Install the python2.2-dev package.
>>
>>It surprises me to find distutils in a package described as:
>>
>>"Header files and a static library for Python (v2.2)"
>>
>>Kent
> 
> 
> 
> Except in the extended description, where it says
> """
>  Includes the python distutils, which were in a separate package up to
>  version 1.5.2.
> """
> 
> In general, if you need to compile, or develop, you need the
> corresponding *-dev packages.

I didn't need to compile or develop, just install.

I expected

$ python ./setup.py install

to work out of the box.
Am I missing something?

Thanks,
Kent




From martin at v.loewis.de  Fri Jul 18 11:18:11 2003
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-15?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 18 Jul 2003 17:18:11 +0200
Subject: Unicode question
References: <mailman.1058456911.22551.python-list@python.org> <65m1yubd.fsf@python.net> <mailman.1058486849.6595.python-list@python.org> <pan.2003.07.18.01.59.38.588766@zmail.pt> <3F17C0C3.6040309@ghaering.de> <mailman.1058521956.17805.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m3brvrlv7w.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Gerhard H?ring <gh at ghaering.de> writes:

> I feel like an idiot now :-( I do get the warnings when I run a Python
> script, but I do not get the warnings when I'm using the interactive
> prompt. So it's all good (almost). Why not also produce warnings at
> the interactive prompt?

Because it is out of the scope of the PEP: The PEP is about source
code *files* only; interactive mode is completely different.

In source code, you can't know what the encoding is. In interactive
mode, you know it is the locale's encoding (assuming the computer is
correctly administrated).

In interactive mode, it would be tedious to enter an encoding
declaration, as you would have to do so over and over again. In source
code, it is not that bad, since you save the file, and the encoding
declaration stays in the file.

IOW, non-ASCII in string and Unicode literals should "just work" in
interactive mode. It currently doesn't fully work, but there is little
point in breaking what works for 2.3, just to restore it in 2.4.

Regards,
Martin




From mwh at python.net  Thu Jul 17 13:46:55 2003
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 17:46:55 GMT
Subject: The ASPN compiler
References: <u8gugvovob6k3jou2oi4olsr6mp1fbqlqn@4ax.com> <mailman.1057969337.5637.python-list@python.org> <c9d82136.0307120941.63540143@posting.google.com> <4868482a.0307141418.a45699e@posting.google.com> <87smp8d32t.fsf@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <7h3r84p128w.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee) writes:

> Since all they wanted to demonstrate was that "the .NET runtime and
> Intermediate Language were capable of supporting the language", I
> think somebody should have told Microsoft about this guy called
> Turing.  With great foresight <wink>, he proved that the .NET runtime
> *is* capable of supporting Python, which should have saved Mark & Greg
> all that hard work.  <0.5 wink>

But not pay <1.0 wink>.

Cheers,
M.

-- 
  Indeed, when I design my killer language, the identifiers "foo" and
  "bar" will be reserved words, never used, and not even mentioned in
  the reference manual. Any program using one will simply dump core
  without comment. Multitudes will rejoice. -- Tim Peters, 29 Apr 1998



From bokr at oz.net  Thu Jul 31 23:11:35 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 1 Aug 2003 03:11:35 GMT
Subject: Python speed vs csharp
References: <rkdc7poiachh.1x4jtxjzaf3zo.dlg@40tude.net>
Message-ID: <bgclp7$lml$0@216.39.172.122>

On Wed, 30 Jul 2003 23:09:22 -0700, Mike <mike at nospam.com> wrote:

>Bear with me: this post is moderately long, but I hope it is relatively
>succinct. 
>
>I've been using Python for several years as a behavioral modeling tool for
>the circuits I design. So far, it's been a good trade-off: compiled C++
>would run faster, but the development time of Python is so much faster, and
>the resulting code is so much more reliable after the first pass, that I've
>never been tempted to return to C++. Every time I think stupid thoughts
>like, "I'll bet I could do this in C++," I get out my copy of Scott Meyers'
>"Effecive C++," and I'm quickly reminded why it's better to stick with
>Python (Meyers is a very good author, but points out lots of quirks and
>pitfalls with C++ that I keep thinking that I shouldn't have to worry
>about, much less try to remember). Even though Python is wonderful in that
>regard, there are problems.
>
>Here's the chunk of code that I'm spending most of my time executing:
>
># Rational approximation for erfc(x) (Abramowitz & Stegun, Sec. 7.1.26)
># Fifth order approximation. |error| <= 1.5e-7 for all x
>#
>def erfc( x ):
>   p  =  0.3275911
>   a1 =  0.254829592
>   a2 = -0.284496736
>   a3 =  1.421413741
>   a4 = -1.453152027
>   a5 =  1.061405429
>
>   t = 1.0 / (1.0 + p*float(x))
>   erfcx = ( (a1 + (a2 + (a3 +
>             (a4 + a5*t)*t)*t)*t)*t ) * math.exp(-(x**2))
>   return erfcx
>
>This is an error function approximation, which gets called around 1.5
>billion times during the simulation, and takes around 3500 seconds (just
>under an hour) to complete. While trying to speed things up, I created a
>simple test case with the code above and a main function to call it 10
>million times. The code takes roughly 210 seconds to run. 

I recoded the above and also in-lined the code, and also made a C DLL module version
and timed them roughly:

====< erfcopt.py >=====================================================
import math
def erfc_old( x ):
    p  =  0.3275911
    a1 =  0.254829592
    a2 = -0.284496736
    a3 =  1.421413741
    a4 = -1.453152027
    a5 =  1.061405429

    t = 1.0 / (1.0 + p*float(x))
    erfcx = ( (a1 + (a2 + (a3 +
              (a4 + a5*t)*t)*t)*t)*t ) * math.exp(-(x**2))
    return erfcx

#   You know that all those "constant" assignments are
#   actually  executed  every  time  erfc  is  called,
#   right?  To  move  that  to  def-time  instead   of
#   call-time, you can write

def erfc( x, # constants bound at def time, rparen moved down, commas added ):
    p  =  0.3275911,
    a1 =  0.254829592,
    a2 = -0.284496736,
    a3 =  1.421413741,
    a4 = -1.453152027,
    a5 =  1.061405429,
    exp = math.exp
 ): # just to make it stand out
    t = 1.0 / (1.0 + p*x) #XXX# don't need float(), since p is float
    return  ( (a1 + (a2 + (a3 +
              (a4 + a5*t)*t)*t)*t)*t ) * exp(-x**2) #XXX# elim attr lookup on global math.exp
    # elim intermediate store of erfcx #XXX# return erfcx

def test():
    from time import clock
    from erfc import erfc as erfc_in_c
    
    # sanity check
    for x in range(20): assert erfc_old(x) == erfc(x) and abs(erfc_in_c(x)-erfc_old(x))<1e-18

    t1=clock()
    for i in xrange(100000): erfc_old(1.2345)
    t2=clock()
    for i in xrange(100000): erfc(1.2345)
    t3=clock()
    # inlining code from old version:
    # constant assignments hoisted out of loop, of course
    p  =  0.3275911
    a1 =  0.254829592
    a2 = -0.284496736
    a3 =  1.421413741
    a4 = -1.453152027
    a5 =  1.061405429
    x = 1.2345
    for i in xrange(100000):
        t = 1.0 / (1.0 + p*float(x))
        erfcx = ( (a1 + (a2 + (a3 +
                  (a4 + a5*t)*t)*t)*t)*t ) * math.exp(-(x**2))
    t4 = clock()     
    for i in xrange(100000): erfc_in_c(1.2345)
    t5=clock()
    print 'old: %f, new: %f, inline: %f, in_c %f' %(t2-t1, t3-t2, t4-t3, t5-t4)

    import dis
    print '---- erfc_old code -----------------------------------'
    dis.dis(erfc_old)
    print '---- erfc --------------------------------------------'
    dis.dis(erfc)

if __name__== '__main__':
    test()
=======================================================================

Result is:


[19:48] C:\pywk\cstuff>erfcopt.py
old: 4.490975, new: 3.123005, inline: 3.051674, in_c 0.806907

I was surprised that the inline gain was not more, but I guess there was enough computation
to obscure that cost. Anyway, moving some of the work to def-time paid off about 30%. But
going to C cut 82%.

I added the C version to the sanity check, and had to allow an epsilon. I suspect that this
is because the C version probably keeps the whole problem in the FPU with 64 fractional bits
of precision until returning the final double (which has 53 bits), wherease the Python
algorithm presumably stores all intermediate values in memory with the 53-bit precision,
and so loses in the overall. That's my theory, anyway.

To see the extra work the old code is doing vs the new, you can see below:

---- erfc_old code -----------------------------------
          0 SET_LINENO               2

          3 SET_LINENO               3
          6 LOAD_CONST               1 (0.32759110000000002)
          9 STORE_FAST               3 (p)

         12 SET_LINENO               4
         15 LOAD_CONST               2 (0.25482959199999999)
         18 STORE_FAST               2 (a1)

         21 SET_LINENO               5
         24 LOAD_CONST               3 (-0.28449673599999997)
         27 STORE_FAST               5 (a2)

         30 SET_LINENO               6
         33 LOAD_CONST               4 (1.4214137410000001)
         36 STORE_FAST               4 (a3)

         39 SET_LINENO               7
         42 LOAD_CONST               5 (-1.453152027)
         45 STORE_FAST               7 (a4)

         48 SET_LINENO               8
         51 LOAD_CONST               6 (1.0614054289999999)
         54 STORE_FAST               6 (a5)

Everything above here was unnecessary to do at run-time

         57 SET_LINENO              10
         60 LOAD_CONST               7 (1.0)
         63 LOAD_CONST               7 (1.0)
         66 LOAD_FAST                3 (p)
         69 LOAD_GLOBAL              6 (float)
         72 LOAD_FAST                0 (x)
         75 CALL_FUNCTION            1
         78 BINARY_MULTIPLY
         79 BINARY_ADD
         80 BINARY_DIVIDE
         81 STORE_FAST               8 (t)

         84 SET_LINENO              11
         87 LOAD_FAST                2 (a1)
         90 LOAD_FAST                5 (a2)
         93 LOAD_FAST                4 (a3)
         96 LOAD_FAST                7 (a4)
         99 LOAD_FAST                6 (a5)
        102 LOAD_FAST                8 (t)
        105 BINARY_MULTIPLY
        106 BINARY_ADD
        107 LOAD_FAST                8 (t)
        110 BINARY_MULTIPLY
        111 BINARY_ADD
        112 LOAD_FAST                8 (t)
        115 BINARY_MULTIPLY
        116 BINARY_ADD
        117 LOAD_FAST                8 (t)
        120 BINARY_MULTIPLY
        121 BINARY_ADD
        122 LOAD_FAST                8 (t)
        125 BINARY_MULTIPLY
        126 LOAD_GLOBAL              9 (math)    <<--+-- replaced by a single LOAD_FAST
        129 LOAD_ATTR               10 (exp)     <<--+
        132 LOAD_FAST                0 (x)
        135 LOAD_CONST               8 (2)
        138 BINARY_POWER
        139 UNARY_NEGATIVE
        140 CALL_FUNCTION            1
        143 BINARY_MULTIPLY
        144 STORE_FAST               1 (erfcx)   <<--+
                                                     | 
        147 SET_LINENO              13           <<--+
        150 LOAD_FAST                1 (erfcx)   <<--+-- all eliminated
        153 RETURN_VALUE
        154 LOAD_CONST               0 (None)
        157 RETURN_VALUE
---- erfc --------------------------------------------
          0 SET_LINENO              20

          3 SET_LINENO              29
          6 LOAD_CONST               1 (1.0)
          9 LOAD_CONST               1 (1.0)
         12 LOAD_FAST                1 (p)
         15 LOAD_FAST                0 (x)
         18 BINARY_MULTIPLY
         19 BINARY_ADD
         20 BINARY_DIVIDE
         21 STORE_FAST               8 (t)

         24 SET_LINENO              30
         27 LOAD_FAST                2 (a1)
         30 LOAD_FAST                3 (a2)
         33 LOAD_FAST                4 (a3)
         36 LOAD_FAST                5 (a4)
         39 LOAD_FAST                6 (a5)
         42 LOAD_FAST                8 (t)
         45 BINARY_MULTIPLY
         46 BINARY_ADD
         47 LOAD_FAST                8 (t)
         50 BINARY_MULTIPLY
         51 BINARY_ADD
         52 LOAD_FAST                8 (t)
         55 BINARY_MULTIPLY
         56 BINARY_ADD
         57 LOAD_FAST                8 (t)
         60 BINARY_MULTIPLY
         61 BINARY_ADD
         62 LOAD_FAST                8 (t)
         65 BINARY_MULTIPLY
         66 LOAD_FAST                7 (exp)    <<--
         69 LOAD_FAST                0 (x)
         72 LOAD_CONST               2 (2)
         75 BINARY_POWER
         76 UNARY_NEGATIVE
         77 CALL_FUNCTION            1
         80 BINARY_MULTIPLY
         81 RETURN_VALUE                        <<--
         82 LOAD_CONST               0 (None)
         85 RETURN_VALUE

[19:49] C:\pywk\cstuff>

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From xpm4senn001 at sneakemail.com  Tue Jul  1 21:34:06 2003
From: xpm4senn001 at sneakemail.com (John Fitzsimons)
Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 11:34:06 +1000
Subject: "Newbie" questions - "unique" sorting ?
References: <bct498$mnjrt$1@ID-130333.news.dfncis.de> <8da5fvsnidpjtblgfj4484spso2t9e6r95@4ax.com> <bcuqp3$nl9um$1@ID-130333.news.dfncis.de> <rt97fv80g2dguti1okoevk3kmvo6oh14vt@4ax.com> <bd17hu$niu1d$1@ID-130333.news.dfncis.de> <u7lcfv85lvutqg8tspgua4qc0454gsd2ie@4ax.com> <bd8gsc$pt2lr$1@ID-130333.news.dfncis.de> <hi5jfvof9sd32b55c8smgibpufhj0akcdo@4ax.com> <bdchsu$rn1p1$1@ID-130333.news.dfncis.de> <n4p1gvkkojnabfg5tteqmkrjljj341c27c@4ax.com> <bdr5eh$ul223$1@ID-130333.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <7784gvck35se42ff9c629v34duu6ltjvu3@4ax.com>

On Mon, 30 Jun 2003 22:17:43 -0700, "Cousin Stanley"
<CousinStanley at hotmail.com> wrote:

< snip >

>| When I get time though I might "rem" (is that # ?) out
>| that/those line/lines so that I have a second URL sorting
>| python executable that doesn't include the numbers.

>Getting rid of the word_count
>isn't too bad ....

< snip >

Thanks for the additional info.   :-)

Regards, John.




From ulope at gmx.de  Wed Jul  2 10:26:29 2003
From: ulope at gmx.de (Ulrich Petri)
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 16:26:29 +0200
Subject: undo tab
References: <3F02E7D5.4060401@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <bduq2n$114jav$1@ID-67890.news.dfncis.de>

"Tom" <llafba at gmx.net> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:3F02E7D5.4060401 at gmx.net...
> Hi,
>
> as we all know we need tabs if we use for, if ... commands. Sometimes I
> find an easier way to do something and I can get rid of one or more for,
> if ... loops. Unfortunately I couldn't find a convenient way to get rid
> of the now unnecessary tabs. I am looking for something as convenient as
> inserting tabs (mark everything and push the tab key). I tried shift+tab
> and all other possible variations with alt/shift/ctrl. :-)
>
> Thanks for your help.
> Tom
>

Would be helpful if you give us a clue what editor you are using....

Ciao Ulrich





From tjreedy at udel.edu  Sun Jul 27 17:43:34 2003
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 17:43:34 -0400
Subject: Checking whether bool is a type
References: <3F2442B2.E660E97@jandecaluwe.com>
Message-ID: <FH-dnQC8AsEa2rmiXTWJiQ@comcast.com>

"Jan Decaluwe" <jan at jandecaluwe.com> wrote in message
news:3F2442B2.E660E97 at jandecaluwe.com...
> In my application I need to know whether bool is
> available as a type (in Python2.3) or not. I just
> realized I can use the following:
>
> jand> python
> Python 2.3c1 (#1, Jul 21 2003, 12:40:39)
> [GCC 2.96 20000731 (Red Hat Linux 7.1 2.96-98)] on linux2
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more
information.
> >>> type(bool) is type
> True
>
> jand> python2.2
> Python 2.2.2 (#1, Oct 16 2002, 19:59:11)
> [GCC 2.96 20000731 (Red Hat Linux 7.1 2.96-98)] on linux2
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more
information.
> >>> type(bool) is type
> 0
>
> Great isn't it ?!

If all you care about is differentiating between 2.2 and 2.3, yes.
But this raises NameError, I believe, on earlier verisons without
'bool' builtin.  What is wrong with using sys.version[:3] >= '2.3'?
(Anyone - has sys.version always been around?)

Terry J. Reedy







From gherron at islandtraining.com  Thu Jul 31 18:53:32 2003
From: gherron at islandtraining.com (Gary Herron)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 15:53:32 -0700
Subject: Python's biggest compromises
In-Reply-To: <3f294ba4$0$8919$626a54ce@news.free.fr>
References: <899f842.0307310555.56134f71@posting.google.com> <3f294ba4$0$8919$626a54ce@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <200307311553.32991.gherron@islandtraining.com>

On Thursday 31 July 2003 10:10 am, Bruno Desthuilliers wrote:
> Anthony_Barker wrote:
> (snip)
>
> > What to you think python largest compromises are?
> >
> > The three that come to my mind are significant whitespace, dynamic
> > typing, and that it is interpreted - not compiled.
>
> IMHO these are not compromises, but features.

What's more, these are three of Python's greatest *strengths*. We
resist all attempts to change these, and we (at least I) avoid other
languages because they do not supply these features.

Gary Herron






From lorenb2 at bezeqint.net  Tue Jul 29 07:08:52 2003
From: lorenb2 at bezeqint.net (Bill Loren)
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 13:08:52 +0200
Subject: gzip HTTP results problem
Message-ID: <003401c355c1$cb6949f0$6400a8c0@EVOD31>

Hey ppl,

I've encountered a problem trying to decode gzip data
returned from an HTTP server I communicate with (I use urllib2).
I've tried to use both the gzip and zlib come-along python libraries but
alas.

Have anyone of you ppl succeeded in talking gzip with an HTTP server ?

thanks in advance,
~B
(btw I do not wish to change my Encoding-Type to deflate...)






From alanmk at hotmail.com  Wed Jul  9 08:11:44 2003
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 13:11:44 +0100
Subject: importing re in Jython
References: <Xns93B386C32C053alexisfrancartnospam@193.252.19.141>
Message-ID: <3F0C0680.69346F59@hotmail.com>

Alexis Francart wrote:

> Do you know how i can import the RE module in Jython?

Works fine for me on Win2K, J2SDK1.4.2 and Jython 2.1:-

Jython 2.1 on java1.4.2 (JIT: null)
Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import re
>>> rx = re.compile('[0-9]+')
>>> for sn in ['1', '10', 's10']:
...     m = rx.match(sn)
...     if m:
...         print "'%s' matches" % sn
...
'1' matches
'10' matches
>>>

Perhaps if you gave us some details, such as 

1. Your OS
2. Your JRE version
3. Your jython version
4. What code you're using

Then it might be easier to help out.

-- 
alan kennedy
-----------------------------------------------------
check http headers here: http://xhaus.com/headers
email alan:              http://xhaus.com/mailto/alan



From Stephen.C.Waterbury at nasa.gov  Fri Jul 25 16:42:19 2003
From: Stephen.C.Waterbury at nasa.gov (Stephen C. Waterbury)
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 16:42:19 -0400
Subject: Problem with pyOpenSSL and Python2.3c
In-Reply-To: <fq8Ua.15671$Hb.263350@news4.e.nsc.no>
References: <bfpf3g$8il$1@skates.gsfc.nasa.gov> <fq8Ua.15671$Hb.263350@news4.e.nsc.no>
Message-ID: <bfs5js$puu$1@skates.gsfc.nasa.gov>

Ooops!  It was my PYTHONPATH ... <blush>.  Never mind!

Rune Hansen wrote:
> Hi, I've got no problems with pyOpenSSL with Python 2.3c1 on MacOS X 
> 10.2.x. I've only buildt pyOpenSSL with Python2.3b2 on RedHat 9, and had 
> no problems there either. I may be able to help you if you provide some 
> information about your setup and error messages.
> 
> regards
> /rune
> 
> Stephen C. Waterbury wrote:
> 
>> I'm trying to get pyOpenSSL to work with Python 2.3c on
>> Red Hat 9, but there seems to be a Python C API incompatibility.
>> I assume this just means that a new version of pyOpenSSL is
>> needed for Python 2.3 -- is that correct?
>>
>> - Steve.
>>
> 




From richmond at ev1.net  Tue Jul  8 14:27:03 2003
From: richmond at ev1.net (Charles Richmond)
Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 18:27:03 GMT
Subject: Collective memory (was: Good code patterns in Python)
References: <mailman.1057083728.8224.python-list@python.org> <vg88va53uha8e@corp.supernews.com> <3F09F136.6060000@srv.net>
Message-ID: <3F0B2857.6EE3A30F@ev1.net>

Kevin Handy wrote:
> 
>        [snip...]        [snip...]        [snip...]
>
> FORTRAN isn't indentation dependent, it is position dependent.
> There is a big difference between the two.
> 
> In FORTRAN, certial columns were allocated to specific purposes.
> 1-5 for the line number, 6 for comment/continuation, 7-75 for the
> program line, 76-80 for sequence numbers. [iirc]
> 
> If you want a language that was even more position dependent than
> fortran, look at RPG-II. You used printed forms for programming to
> get the columns correct. One character in the wrong column would
> change the meaning of that line.
> 
IIRC, people who programmed RPG-II on a computer terminal...had
a plastic overlay for the screen so they could see what column
that things were being typed into. 

The "C" language gives white space significance...especially
if it determines what a token will be. The tokenizer tries to
build the longest token possible. So:

		x = i++ + j;

is *not* the same as:

		x = i + ++j;

and the statement:

		x = i+++j;

is the same as:

		x = i++ + j;

If you have:

int  *p, x, y;

then:

		y = x/*p;

is quite different from:

		y = x / *p;

The first way, "/*" will begin a comment...the second way,
you get the integer "x" divided by the integer pointed to by "p".


--
+----------------------------------------------------------------+
|   Charles and Francis Richmond     richmond at plano dot net   |
+----------------------------------------------------------------+



From irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl  Wed Jul  2 15:34:16 2003
From: irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 21:34:16 +0200
Subject: How Do You Get Redirected Input?
In-Reply-To: <l6GMa.6947$n%5.1338@nwrddc02.gnilink.net>
References: <l6GMa.6947$n%5.1338@nwrddc02.gnilink.net>
Message-ID: <3f0333b6$0$49116$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

not your business wrote:
> I have a shell tool that accepts arguments on the command line. I would like
> to check if the input is being piped in.  That is,
>  
>         $ mytool.py < cmdlst.txt
> 
> In this case sys.argv is empty. So I added
> 
>         pipein = os.read(sys.stdin.fileno(),256)
>         if (pipein):
>             input_args = pipein.split()
>         else:
>             input_args = sys.argv[1:]
>  
> Problem is that if nothing is redirected in, the script waits for a Enter
> pressed on the the keyboard. Anyone know a solution to this?  Thanx in
> advance for any help.

Why not turn it around? First check if sys.argv is *not* empty,
in which case the user provided command line arguments, and
proceed to parse those. Otherwise (if sys.argv *is* empty),
assume the input is piped in and proceed to read the standard
input.

--Irmen




From vze4rx4y at verizon.net  Wed Jul 30 05:37:16 2003
From: vze4rx4y at verizon.net (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 09:37:16 GMT
Subject: looking for design pattern name
References: <bg1lt6$81g$1@slb2.atl.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <glMVa.2873$Jz2.2213@nwrdny02.gnilink.net>

"Andrew Dalke" <adalke at mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:bg1lt6$81g$1 at slb2.atl.mindspring.net...
> I'm looking for the name used for a pattern like what Qt uses for
> it's container hierarchy.  I'm doing this design for molecules, so I'll
> use that as my example.
>
> There's a container, in this case, a Molecule.  A Molecule has Atoms
> and Bonds.  When an Atom, it is passed the parent container as
> part of the constructor, as in
>
> mol = Molecule()
> O1 = Atom(mol, 8)    # note the parent in the constructor
> O2 = Atom(mol, 8)
> Bond(O1, O2, 2)    # (the parent is implicit - comes from the atoms)

What happens in Bond() if O1 and O2 have different parents?

When O1 is constructed, does mol get informed?  IOW, after the
four assignments, does mol know that it has two atoms and double bond?


> I want to compare this to a design like
>
> mol = Molecule()
> O1 = mol.add_atom(8)
> O2 = mol.add_atom(8)
> mol.add_bond(O1, O2)
>
> which does not allow a user-derived Atom and Bond class
>
> and one like
>
> mol = Molecule()
> O1 = Atom(8)
> mol.add_atom(O1)
> O2 = Atom(8)
> mol.add_atom(O2)
> b = Bond(2)
> mol.add_bond(b)

How does this setup handle:

  mol1 = Molecule()
  mol2 = Molecule()
  b = Bond(2)
  mol1.add_bond(b)
  mol2.add_bond(b)

Is there any way to detect that the same Atom or Bond
being used in two different molecules?



>
> Anyone have good names for any of these three styles?

Assuming that the first approach operates by constructing
components and notifying parents that it is a new component,
then I would call it the Widget pattern because it operates like
Tk widgets:

    root = Tk()               # root = Molecule()
    b1 = Button(root)     # b1 = Atom(root, 8)
    b2 = Button(root)     # b2 = Atom(root, 8)

In Chapter 2 of The Art of Objects, the second and third
approaches are called Collection Manager and Container.
The key distinction is that a Container only contains the
objects and is not responsible for creating them.

Another idea is to name the patterns after the limitations
inherent in each design.  When Atoms are constructed
implicitly, the design does not favor applications
that break-up a molecule and re-attach some of the existing
atoms into new molecules, so call it NoMix or some such.

Still another ideas is to describe a pattern by its
characteristic variant or invariant properties:

* The first approach has components with fixed parents
    established at the time of component creation.  Call the pattern
    SignUp since every new atom or bond has to immediately
    signup with an existing parent.

* The second approach has captive components.
   This suggests the name MoleculeDriven to cover the idea
   that all component atoms or bonds are created from the
   molecule, thus assuring there can be no orphan atoms or bonds.

* The third approach allows free mixing of components.
   This is suggestive of the name TinkerToy where all the
   molecular model components can lay separately on a
   table (sticks for bonds and cogwheels for atoms).



Raymond Hettinger





From m at moshez.org  Mon Jul 14 02:02:54 2003
From: m at moshez.org (Moshe Zadka)
Date: 14 Jul 2003 06:02:54 -0000
Subject: anything like C++ references?
In-Reply-To: <sag3hv4vf884ed7ouu5cv8ofnopp9j1t12@4ax.com>
References: <sag3hv4vf884ed7ouu5cv8ofnopp9j1t12@4ax.com>, <000301c348c7$3c501980$21795418@dell1700> <iqm2hvs77lhe1m71v9b579070khbf0uv0a@4ax.com> <berqqd$ad5$1@panix3.panix.com> <brs2hv8edfv0d1fch9mha8otuulajnkh0g@4ax.com> <bes0ps$l6$1@panix3.panix.com> <qi13hv4s21i8mtr2e600jumm54hqs7tppu@4ax.com> <mailman.1058125699.26133.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <20030714060254.28299.qmail@green.zadka.com>

On Sun, 13 Jul 2003, Stephen Horne <intentionally at blank.co.uk> wrote:

> The problem is that you are confusing implementation with semantics.
> The meanings of 'variable', 'value', 'assignment' etc are defined by
> computer science.

This is not just wrong, but as far as it is right, the semantics agree
with Python's :)
In computer science, the theoretical model one first learns is a turing
machine. Turing machines have no variables or values, merely tapes. While
I'm sure you can creatively translate the terms to turing machiens, this
exercise seems fairly pointless. Ram machines are similar. More abstract
models, like recursive functions, deal with integers only, so again you
would need hard to associate terms with them [you can implement a list
of integers with the p_1^n_1*....p_k^n_k, where p_1,...,p_k are distinct
primes. I'm not completely sure how this would translate to Python, though :)]

However, computer science did have a minor notational revolution: Lisp.
Lisp was originally invented as an abstract way to express computations
in a more natural, and yet well-defined, way. The fact that lisp can be
*implemented* was somewhat of a shock, but it turned to be a fairly useful
language.

So as far as computer science defines the idea of "variable", "value"
and "assignment", it can be said to give those terms the Lisp semantics,
which are fairly similar to Python semantics.

[Note that in Lisp conses, for example, are actually mutable. However,
many functions treat them as immutable objects. This is perfectly fine,
and was a concious design decision in Lisp. Similarily, Python wouldn't
*need* tuples: they can be implemented as lists. The immutability allows
the implementation to play tricks with memory usage, though.]

-- 
Moshe Zadka -- http://moshez.org/
Buffy: I don't like you hanging out with someone that... short.
Riley: Yeah, a lot of young people nowadays are experimenting with shortness.
Agile Programming Language -- http://www.python.org/




From bobx at linuxmail.org  Tue Jul  8 10:29:14 2003
From: bobx at linuxmail.org (Bob)
Date: 8 Jul 2003 07:29:14 -0700
Subject: ftp a file by date and name match
Message-ID: <1001ff04.0307080629.7ef1e277@posting.google.com>

I am trying to get the latest file from an ftp site that matches a
pattern and is the latest one. I have it in Perl and would like to see
the Python version for comparison.

Perl version:

# this matches the name only by looking at files
# that start with 8 numbers (i.e. 20021203)
foreach(@list) {
    if(m/\d{8}.*x86.exe/) {
        push(@match,$_)
    }
}

if(scalar(@match)) {
    my $file=$match[$#match];
    $ftp->binary();
    $ftp->get($file);
}
$ftp->quit;



From bdesth.nospam at removeme.free.fr  Sun Jul 13 18:12:26 2003
From: bdesth.nospam at removeme.free.fr (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 22:12:26 +0000
Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=F1=EF=E5=F8=E8=E0=EB_=E4=EB=FF_=F0=EE=F1?=
 =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=F1=E8=E9=F1=EA=E8=F5_=EF=E8=F2=EE=ED=F9=E8=EA=EE=E2=29?=
 =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=29=29?=
References: <37d6f77c.0307130932.1e3adf0d@posting.google.com> <3f11ac74$0$49101$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <3F11D94A.7050208@removeme.free.fr>

Irmen de Jong wrote:
> Garber wrote:
> 
>> ?????, ?????????? ??? ??? ??????? ????? ??????(????????, ?????? ???? ?
>> exe-???? ?????????).
> 
> 
> 
> Yes!
> I think.
> 
> ;-)
> 
> On second thought, what's he saying?
> 

He said :
"?????, ?????????? ??? ??? ??????? ????? ??????(????????, ?????? ???? ? 
exe-???? ?????????)."

It does seem clear enough, doesn't it ?-)




From duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk  Fri Jul  4 10:45:37 2003
From: duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk (Duncan Booth)
Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 14:45:37 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Exceptions and modules
References: <292c8da4.0307040627.59acda19@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <Xns93AEA00AA90A5duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

westernsam at hotmail.com (sam) wrote in 
news:292c8da4.0307040627.59acda19 at posting.google.com:

> So the Exception isn't recognised even though it has the same
> namespace and name as the exception defined in the module. I have to
> uncomment the 7th line to get my example to behave as I would like it
> to.
> 
> Is this a bug/feature? Is there any reason why it shouldn't work the
> way I expect it to?

It's a feature, and it probably ought to be in the FAQ in some form.

When you run 'python module1.py' the code in the source file module1.py is 
compiled into a module called __main__. That means that the line:

    except MyException, err:

is actually short for:

    except __main__.MyException, err:

When module2 imports module1 the code is recompiled into a new module. Same 
source code, but otherwise no relation. You then raise module1.MyException 
which doesn't match __main__.MyException.

-- 
Duncan Booth                                             duncan at rcp.co.uk
int month(char *p){return(124864/((p[0]+p[1]-p[2]&0x1f)+1)%12)["\5\x8\3"
"\6\7\xb\1\x9\xa\2\0\4"];} // Who said my code was obscure?



From bokr at oz.net  Mon Jul  7 22:15:38 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 8 Jul 2003 02:15:38 GMT
Subject: single/double quote escape interpolation
References: <bech6q$h5i$1@news7.svr.pol.co.uk> <mailman.1057607231.26988.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bed9ga$mr7$0@216.39.172.122>

On Mon, 7 Jul 2003 14:45:42 -0500, Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com> wrote:

>
>    Simon> I was just wondering why python doesn't make a distinction
>    Simon> between single and double quotes - a bit like Perl does.
>
>In most instances it's helpful because you can avoid extra escapes, e.g.:
>
>    "why don't we drop by the pub and quaff a few?"
>
>instead of
>
>    'why don\'t we drop by the pub and quaff a few?'
>
>There are also triple-quoted strings using """ and ''' as the string
>delimiters.  They mostly just make it easy to create multi-line string
>literals, but they can also be used to avoid backslashes:
>
>    '''Maury said, "Why don't we drop by the pub and quaff a few?"'''
>
>    Simon> Obviously I realise there are no dollar signs so you can't
>    Simon> intrpolate a varaible in a string.
>
>You can interpret variables, the mechanism is just slightly different:
>
>    "why don't we drop by the $where and $dowhat a few?"
>
>for Perl, vs.
>
>    "why don't we drop by the %(where)s and %(dowhat)s a few?" % somedict
>
>for Python.  Somedict is a dictionary having keys "where" and "dowhat" (at
>minimum).  The most common "somedict"s are probably "locals()" and
>"globals()" though you can easily construct your own or take them from
>different contexts, like SQL query results.
>
Might want to mention that somedict only has to act like a dict, not necessarily *be*
a dict. I.e., supporting __getitem__ suffices, so you can synthesize anything you like
from the key passed. E.g.,

 >>> class AsIs(object):
 ...     def __getitem__(self, key): return '%(' + key + ')s'
 ...
 >>> somedict = AsIs()
 >>> "why don't we drop by the %(where)s and %(dowhat)s a few?" % somedict
 "why don't we drop by the %(where)s and %(dowhat)s a few?"

Maybe that was a little weird ;-) How about,

 >>> class RU(object):
 ...     def __getitem__(self, key):
 ...         res = list(key.upper())
 ...         res.reverse()
 ...         return ''.join(res)
 ...
 >>> somedict = RU()
 >>> "why don't we drop by the %(where)s and %(dowhat)s a few?" % somedict
 "why don't we drop by the EREHW and TAHWOD a few?"

 >>> class RanWord(object):
 ...     kinds = {'where': ['pub', 'office','theatre','boathouse'],
 ...              'dowhat':['quaff','program','watch','expend']}
 ...     def __getitem__(self, key):
 ...         w = self.kinds.get(key,['??'])
 ...         return random.choice(w)
 ...
 >>> import random
 >>> somedict = RanWord()
 >>> "why don't we drop by the %(where)s and %(dowhat)s a few?" % somedict
 "why don't we drop by the pub and expend a few?"
 >>> "why don't we drop by the %(where)s and %(dowhat)s a few?" % somedict
 "why don't we drop by the boathouse and quaff a few?"
 >>> "why don't we drop by the %(where)s and %(dowhat)s a few?" % somedict
 "why don't we drop by the office and expend a few?"
 >>> "why don't we drop by the %(where)s and %(dowhat)s a few?" % somedict
 "why don't we drop by the boathouse and program a few?"
 >>> "why don't we drop by the %(where)s and %(dowhat)s a few?" % somedict
 "why don't we drop by the office and program a few?"
 >>> "why don't we drop by the %(where)s and %(dowhat)s a few?" % somedict
 "why don't we drop by the pub and expend a few?"
 >>> "why don't we drop by the %(where)s and %(dowhat)s a few?" % somedict
 "why don't we drop by the pub and program a few?"
 >>> "why don't we drop by the %(where)s and %(dowhat)s a few?" % somedict
 "why don't we drop by the boathouse and watch a few?"
 >>> "why don't we drop by the %(where)s and %(dowhat)s a few?" % somedict
 "why don't we drop by the theatre and quaff a few?"
 
Whatever ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From sismex01 at hebmex.com  Tue Jul 29 11:07:09 2003
From: sismex01 at hebmex.com (sismex01 at hebmex.com)
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 10:07:09 -0500
Subject: variable assignment in "while" loop
Message-ID: <F7DB8D13DB61D511B6FF00B0D0F062330592C757@mail.hebmex.com>

> From: Sybren Stuvel [mailto:sybrenUSE at YOURthirdtower.imagination.com] 
> Sent: Martes, 29 de Julio de 2003 07:09 a.m.
> 
> Hi there,
> 
> Is it possible to use an assignment in a while-loop? I'd like to do
> something like "loop while there is still something to be read, and if
> there is, put it in this variable". I've been a C programmer since I
> was 14, so a construct like:
> 
> while info = mydbcursor.fetchone():
> 	print "Information: "+str(info)
> 
> comes to mind. Unfortunately, this doesn't work. Is there a similar
> construct in python?
> 
> Sybren
>

Well, you say you've programmed C since 14, but not how old you
are now, so... you could be programming C for six months if you're
14-and-a-half ;-)

Assignment, in Python, is not an expression, it's a statement;
it doesn't "return" any value, it binds an object's reference
to a name.  Multiple chained assignments in Python don't work
the same way as they do in C, because in Python they're merely
syntactic sugar so you don't have to type them by hand.

Anyhow... the best way to do what you wanna is simply:

while 1:
    info = mydbcursor.fetchone()
    if not info: break
    print "Information:", info

a-ha! you say; yes, the "print" statement ("STATEMENT", not function)
automagically applies str() to the given object, so if you directly
print an object, you don't have to str() it, print does that for
you.

"But it's so cumbersome" you think, looking upon an inconditional-
turned-conditional loop.  Don't worry, it'll become natural with
practice, and after a bit you'll recall your previous C loops
and think "ewww".  Why?  Because, the C compiler is doing
exactly that, only implicitly, and hiding it from you.
That's bad.

You could also:

info = mydbcursor.fetchone()
while info:
    print "Information:", info
    info = mydbcursor.fetchone()

and there's nothing wrong with this; the only "anti-aesthetic"
thing here is the duplicated line which assigns to "info",
but that's small potatos, really; don't worry about that.

Another way, with more modern versions of Python, is to
iterate directly over the cursor:

for info in mydbcursor:
    print "Information:", info

Why?  Because cursors, if I recall correctly, are iterable
objects, so you can iterate through them using for: or any
other similar construct.

Welcome to programming bliss :-)

-gustavo



Advertencia:La informacion contenida en este mensaje es confidencial y
restringida, por lo tanto esta destinada unicamente para el uso de la
persona arriba indicada, se le notifica que esta prohibida la difusion de
este mensaje. Si ha recibido este mensaje por error, o si hay problemas en
la transmision, favor de comunicarse con el remitente. Gracias.




From akaihola at ambi-spam-me-not-tone.com  Sun Jul 20 13:48:22 2003
From: akaihola at ambi-spam-me-not-tone.com (Antti Kaihola)
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 20:48:22 +0300
Subject: Tk mainloop()
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1058675670.11192.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1058675670.11192.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <VyASa.3$HC4.1@reader1.news.jippii.net>

> Hi, I have a question: how do you execute an arbitrary function in Tk fooBar.mainloop()?
> I need to change the contents of a label every second, but I think I will also use some other functions as well...

from Tkinter import *

class MyApp(Tk):

     def __init__(self):
         Tk.__init__(self, className='MyApp')
         self.after(1000, self.label_timeout)
         # add whatever initialization you may need

     def label_timeout(self):
         # change label contents here
         self.after(1000, self.timeout)

myapp = MyApp()
myapp.protocol('WM_DELETE_WINDOW', on_close)
myapp.mainloop()




From edreamleo at charter.net  Fri Jul 18 13:35:46 2003
From: edreamleo at charter.net (Edward K. Ream)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 12:35:46 -0500
Subject: wxPython questions
References: <vhe347qgm74ub5@corp.supernews.com> <mailman.1058477969.11695.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <vhgbvm9sn6am05@corp.supernews.com>

Many thanks, Dave, for these most helpful responses.  I think the next step
is to do some prototyping...

> For example, you  don't have to use the wxSize class since you can always
just use an (x,y) tuple (maybe there's an exception to that rule, but I
haven't seen it yet).  Ditto for strings.

Oh bliss, oh rapture.  Oh rapture, oh bliss :-)

> P.S. There's a wxPython mailing list you may find more useful - check
wxPython.org for details.

Will do.  In this case, though, your answer was just what I was hoping for.

Edward
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Edward K. Ream   email:  edreamleo at charter.net
Leo: Literate Editor with Outlines
Leo: http://webpages.charter.net/edreamleo/front.html
--------------------------------------------------------------------







From pyth at devel.trillke.net  Fri Jul 25 16:46:38 2003
From: pyth at devel.trillke.net (holger krekel)
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 22:46:38 +0200
Subject: path module
In-Reply-To: <11234c14.0307251219.70e77a85@posting.google.com>; from jason.orendorff@lumigent.com on Fri, Jul 25, 2003 at 01:19:49PM -0700
References: <1057651068.5348.386.camel@lothlorien> <20030708113219.H6906@prim.han.de> <mailman.1057686613.6463.python-list@python.org> <11234c14.0307211016.344d40bc@posting.google.com> <mailman.1059144006.6426.python-list@python.org> <11234c14.0307251219.70e77a85@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20030725224638.R6906@prim.han.de>

Jason Orendorff wrote:
> holger krekel wrote:
> > I think it's convenient enough to use "str(path)" if passing a 'path' 
> > instance as a string somewhere.
> 
> Hmmm.  If the plan were to convert the whole standard library to accept
> path objects for pathnames, I would likely agree.  But when you say
> "str(p)" is "convenient enough", you're saying I need this rule in my head:
> 
>     Don't pass path objects to functions that take path arguments.
>     Pass string objects instead.

Or even better, call the appropriate Path method :-)
 
> This is a type rule.  Such a thing has no place in Python.

Oh, the stdlib has lots of places where it expects certain types in
certain places.  Look for e.g. 'isinstance'. 

> Furthermore, this rule is counterlogical!  I would have to change
> "mimetypes.guess_type(mypath)" to "mimetypes.guess_type(str(mypath))".

I'd just call this a little inconvenient.  And i wouldn't mind adding
a guess_type method (which would work even better for URL's or
subversion-urls). 

cheers,

    holger




From cartermark46 at ukmail.com  Thu Jul 10 12:37:07 2003
From: cartermark46 at ukmail.com (Mark Carter)
Date: 10 Jul 2003 09:37:07 -0700
Subject: Calling Excel module functions from python [repost]
References: <d3c9c04.0307100142.a49fd81@posting.google.com> <bejgq8$9j8$1@rzmux02.rz.uni-augsburg.de>
Message-ID: <d3c9c04.0307100837.2c6a6ae7@posting.google.com>

Koczian <Sibylle.Koczian at Bibliothek.Uni-Augsburg.de> wrote in message news:<bejgq8$9j8$1 at rzmux02.rz.uni-augsburg.de>...
> Mark Carter schrieb:
> 
> > In Excel, I have a module named modCSV which has a function named
> > SaveSheet(), which I want to be able to call from python. How do I do
> > it?
> > 
> > I've opened the workbook containing the module, and executed the code:
> > 
> > from win32com.client import Dispatch
> > xlApp = Dispatch("Excel.Application")
> > xlApp.Visible = 1
> > wb = xlApp.ActiveWorkbook
> > wbc = wb.VBProject.VBComponents("modCSV")
> > wbc.SaveSheet()
> > 
> > but I get the error message:
[snip]

> Try
> 
> xlApp.Run('SaveSheet')

It works!


> That works with ordinary Excel macros, but I don't know about 
> VBProject.VBComponents. Possibly this might work:
> 
> wbc.Run('SaveSheet').

It doesn't work. But that doesn't matter, because the first method works.

A further tip:
For a function taking arguments, use
xlApp.Run("func", "arg1", "arg2", ...)

Thanks



From tomas at fancy.org  Tue Jul  1 21:25:18 2003
From: tomas at fancy.org (Tom Plunket)
Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 18:25:18 -0700
Subject: functors
Message-ID: <3jc4gvgn5rb4c4008eedg958ee594lu8p2@4ax.com>

How can I create a functor object in Python?

What I want (being a C++ coder <g>), is to be able to create an
object that I is callable.  The following is my attempt, but it
doesn't work:

class Countdown:
    def __init__(self):
        self.callback = None

    def SetCallback(self, time, callback):
        self.callback = callback
        self.timeRemaining = time
        
    def Update(self):
        if self.callback is not None:
            self.timeRemaining -= 1
            if self.timeRemaining <= 0:
                print "Callback fired."
                self.callback()
                self.callback = None
                
class SomeClass:
    def __init__(self):
        self.countdown = Countdown()
        self.countdown.SetCallback(30, lambda s=self: s.Callback)
        # I have also tried 'lambda: self.Callback'
        self.done = False

    def Callback(self):
        print "success!"
        self.done = True
        
    def Update(self):
        while not self.done:
            self.countdown.Update()

if __name__ == "__main__":
    SomeClass().Update()

***

I wouldn't mind creating a new class to wrap this up (that's what
I'd do in C++, and that class would have an operator() defined),
but I can't seem to discover how to make callable objects in
Python.

If there's a better way to do callbacks like I'm trying to do,
also that would be handy to know.  :)  I don't want to poll the
countdown object every time through the loop because it just
seems "dirty"...  :)

thanks,
-tom!



From irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl  Fri Jul  4 13:21:50 2003
From: irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 19:21:50 +0200
Subject: Server Push
In-Reply-To: <be2che$6ng$1@sparta.btinternet.com>
References: <be2che$6ng$1@sparta.btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <3f05b7ab$0$49103$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

John Bradbury wrote:
> I want to send updates from a long running cgi.  I have tried copying perl
> examples of server push and can not get them to work.
> Does anyone have an idiot proof example of a working server push or sending
> output in chunks in Python?

Check out: http://wp.netscape.com/assist/net_sites/pushpull.html

There are basically two ways to do this. Either use the
above mentioned "multipart response", which only seems to work on
certain browsers (confirmed on netscape and mozilla, IE doesn't seem
to work). The other method is just flushing your output and
continue to write more data... but this won't allow you to
'clear the page' in the client's browser (multipart repsonses will).

--Irmen




From hokiegal99 at hotmail.com  Wed Jul 16 11:18:09 2003
From: hokiegal99 at hotmail.com (hokiegal99)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 11:18:09 -0400
Subject: <> and !=
References: <3F154B63.3060503@hotmail.com> <3F154BBD.2060304@hotmail.com> <3jlahv8o1fcu2j0oij2p31c32nftnb3er8@4ax.com> <3F155B6D.8000205@hotmail.com> <Xns93BA9BB2977B8duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <3F156CB1.40606@hotmail.com>

Duncan Booth wrote:
> hokiegal99 <hokiegal99 at hotmail.com> wrote in 
> news:3F155B6D.8000205 at hotmail.com:
> 
> 
>>Thank you, that is what I thought. What's the reason for having two 
>>symbols mean the same thing?
>>
> 
> Originally Python only had '<>' for the not-equal comparison. Version 0.9.3 
> added a bunch of C like syntax, such as C's shifting and masking operators. 
> It also added C style '==' and '!=' comparison operators. The original '<>' 
> remains valid for backwards compatibility.
> 

That makes sense. Thanks for the info!!




From bgailer at alum.rpi.edu  Mon Jul 14 09:10:39 2003
From: bgailer at alum.rpi.edu (Bob Gailer)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 07:10:39 -0600
Subject: Newbie with sort text file question
In-Reply-To: <beshr0$qto$1@slb5.atl.mindspring.net>
References: <mailman.1058044097.29736.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20030714070241.01c54540@66.28.54.253>

At 03:12 PM 7/13/2003 -0600, Andrew Dalke wrote:

>Bob Gailer:
> > [Pipeline]
>
>Huh.  Hadn't heard of that one before.  Thanks for the pointer.

Since I am developing the Python version of Pipeline I wonder if you have 
any interest in it? Would like to be an early recipient?

>(And overall, nice post!)
>
> > The Python version:
>
>Some stylistic comments
>
> > input = file('c:\input.txt')
>
>Since 'input' is a builtin, I use 'infile'.

Agree. When I'm in a hurry I let details slip.

>For the OP, you'll need 'c:\\input.txt' because the '\' has special meaning
>inside of a string so must be escaped.

Agree. When I'm in a hurry I let details slip.

> > fruits = {} # a dictionary to hold each fruit and its count
> > lines = input.readlines()
> > for line in lines:
>
>Since you are using Python 2.2 (later you use "if fruit in fruits",
>and "__in__" support for dicts wasn't added until Python 2.2, I
>think, and the 'file' usage is also new), this is best written as
>
>   for line in input:

Agree.

> >    fruit = line.split('_', 1)[0]
>
> >    if fruit in fruits:
> >      fruits[fruit] += 1 # increment count
> >    else:
> >      fruits[fruit] = 1 # add to dictionary with count of 1
>
>Here's a handy idiom for what you want
>
>       fruits[fruit] = fruits.get(fruit, 0) + 1

Don't you want setdefault() instead of get()?

> > output1 = file('c:\output1.txt', 'w')
> > for key, value in fruits.items():
> >    output1.write("%s occurs %s\n" % (key, value))
> > output1.close()
> > output2 = file('c:\output2.txt', 'w')
> > output2.write("Total occurrences is %s\n" % len(lines))
> > output2.close()
>
>That's missing some sorts, so I don't think it meets the OP's requirements.

The only reason for sort that I could see was to group things for counting. 
The output appears sorted descending, but that order was not specified, so 
I assumed random output.

[snip]

Bob Gailer
bgailer at alum.rpi.edu
303 442 2625
-------------- next part --------------

---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.500 / Virus Database: 298 - Release Date: 7/10/2003

From anton at vredegoor.doge.nl  Tue Jul  1 12:38:11 2003
From: anton at vredegoor.doge.nl (Anton Vredegoor)
Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 18:38:11 +0200
Subject: does lack of type declarations make Python unsafe?
References: <qgiuev87lhuagv5fs1g5671id61p0mej7k@4ax.com> <a5WHa.197736$g92.4021282@news2.tin.it> <ur85r1mz1.fsf@boost-consulting.com> <c9%Ha.200753$g92.4077297@news2.tin.it> <uy8zy4vzs.fsf@boost-consulting.com> <pNfIa.206219$g92.4232233@news2.tin.it> <slrnbft9b1.fmd.kamikaze@kuoi.asui.uidaho.edu> <bdmr66$j5n$1@news.hccnet.nl> <slrnbfuu49.1vcv.kamikaze@kuoi.asui.uidaho.edu> <bdro2o$cfk$1@news.hccnet.nl> <slrnbg362r.2r2d.kamikaze@kuoi.asui.uidaho.edu>
Message-ID: <bdsdld$7qc$1@news.hccnet.nl>

kamikaze at kuoi.asui.uidaho.edu (Mark 'Kamikaze' Hughes) wrote:

>  Stop.  <snip>

Probably too soon for the complete reversal technique. FYI I was
trying to use your post as an example of the defensive psychological
techniques people (not just you, me too, and probably a lot of the
readers here) use when facing ambiguity. Introducing new language
features or trying to do unfamiliar things -f.e. from other languages-
with the language one is accustomed to produces exactly the kind of
feelings of unsafety -and alas, the defensive postures and abuse- that
this thread is about. I thank you anyway for serving as an example for
this, stay here and maybe you'll reverse someday, be it more slowly,
though we'll probably never marry :-|

Anton





From sanjiv at leopardlogic.com  Tue Jul 29 18:15:40 2003
From: sanjiv at leopardlogic.com (Sanjiv Kumar)
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 15:15:40 -0700
Subject: Fw: Python-2.3c2.tgz installation
References: <041d01c35614$542b3bc0$4901a8c0@beastjr> <200307291809.10354.drlinux@columbus.rr.com>
Message-ID: <042e01c3561e$f55f58a0$4901a8c0@beastjr>

Hi Dave,

Thanks for your inputs !! I will try with gcc version 2.95.3. 

Best Regards,
=Sanjiv=

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dave Reed" <drlinux at columbus.rr.com>
To: "Sanjiv Kumar" <sanjiv at leopardlogic.com>; <python-list at python.org>
Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2003 3:09 PM
Subject: Re: Fw: Python-2.3c2.tgz installation


> On Tuesday 29 July 2003 16:59, Sanjiv Kumar wrote:
> > 
> > Hi,
> > 
> > I am trying to build and install python-2.3 on a Solaris machine. It 
> give segmentation fault during build process ( I guess during build of 
> extensions to python i.e. running "build_ext").  I am using gcc 
> --version 2.95.2 on SunOS xyz 5.8 Generic_108528-15 sun4u sparc 
> SUNW,Ultra-60 machine. So any hint to get rid of this problem.
> >  
> > Best Regards,
> > =Sanjiv=
> 
> If the compiler gives a segmentation fault, I would think it's a bug
> in the compiler or it wasn't installed correctly. gcc 2.95.2 is pretty
> hold and I suspect (well, all code that large has bugs) it had bugs -
> there is a 2.95.3.
> 
> I can report successful compilation of Python 2.3c2 on Solaris 9 using
> gcc 3.2.3.
> 
> I would first try upgrading your compiler to 2.95.3 or gcc 3.2.3 or
> maybe even gcc 3.3 (I haven't looked to see how bug-free it is
> supposed to be). The latest Red Hat beta does include it so they must
> have got it to compile all their packages.
> 
> Dave (who is patiently waiting for the final 2.3 so he can finish
> updating software on Solaris 9 machines)
> 
> 





From klapotec at chello.at  Thu Jul 31 02:52:06 2003
From: klapotec at chello.at (Christopher Koppler)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 06:52:06 GMT
Subject: Misuse of <tab>
References: <3f27f0e3$1@news.broadpark.no> <3f28287e$0$103$8f4e7992@newsreader.goldengate.net>
Message-ID: <9rehivsavhereijf36nhla96krct4s1fmn@4ax.com>

On Wed, 30 Jul 2003 15:20:46 -0500, "Michael Sampson"
<milkchug89 at hotmail.com> wrote:

>How does the IDLE that comes with the latest release of python handle this?
>When it automaticly indents does it do it with spaces or tabs?  If you hit
>tab in the IDLE will it just put 5 spaces in for you?
>

IDLE 1.0 (from Python 2.3) has a pretty configuration dialog, accessed
via Options|Configure IDLE, which lets you define its behaviour - do
you want it to insert tabs as tabs or spaces, and how many spaces do
you want, the default seeming to be converting a tab to 4 spaces.

And, as others have said, DON'T use 5.



--Christopher



From Mike at kordik.net  Sun Jul  6 16:42:06 2003
From: Mike at kordik.net (Mike)
Date: Sun, 06 Jul 2003 20:42:06 GMT
Subject: python -c option
Message-ID: <pan.2003.07.06.21.51.32.184992@kordik.net>

I am very new to Python and read the docs section about having python run
commands from the command line. I have been successful with:

python -c "print 'Hello'"

It prints Hello

In the interpreter I can type 2+2 and it will return 4 but how do I do
that from the command line? I have tried a few things without success.

What I am really after is to do some command line processing where the
output of grep is returning "prog=.01234" and I want to beautify it so it
prints "12%"

Maybe I should mess with bash but I am new to *nix in general and I wanted
to learn Python.

Thanks,
Mike



From clifford.wells at comcast.net  Sat Jul 12 13:06:43 2003
From: clifford.wells at comcast.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: 12 Jul 2003 10:06:43 -0700
Subject: The "intellectual property" misnomer
In-Reply-To: <slrnbgv1c7.q1.bignose-hates-spam@rose.localdomain.fake>
References: <mailman.1057978117.8939.python-list@python.org>
	 <slrnbgv1c7.q1.bignose-hates-spam@rose.localdomain.fake>
Message-ID: <1058029603.4127.462.camel@devilbox.homelinux.net>

On Fri, 2003-07-11 at 20:30, Ben Finney wrote:
> On Fri, 11 Jul 2003 22:47:21 -0400, Tim Peters wrote:
> > Ben Finney wrote:
> >> Guido van Rossum wrote:
> >> > The PSF holds the intellectual property rights for Python
> >> Ugh.  Please don't propagate this ridiculous, meaningless term.
> > 
> > Guido isn't writing a treatise on the law, he's briefly explaining
> > (part of) what the PSF does.
> 
> The term he used doesn't explain anything, and only confuses.  It would
> have been *less* confusing to say "The PSF holds something unspecified
> for Python".  At least there is no pretence of explanation there.

Right, I mean, why say anything at all since, you know, some lawyer
somewhere might be offended.  And we all care so much about lawyers. 
That's why I chose programming as a career, so I could deal with lawyers
more.

> > I doubt many are confused by what he said
> 
> People may have an assumption about what is meant by the term, but they
> are almost certainly wrong, since the fields of law that are sometimes
> lumped together by that term have almost nothing in common.

No, they are most certainly not wrong.  Most people using Python have
probably at least perused the license.  Having done so, I doubt that
they need to have it spelled out every time it is mentioned.

> There is nothing useful indicated by the term "intellectual property
> rights", because it presumes there is some commonality between fields of
> law that deal with different intellectual concepts, impose different
> restrictions, and presume different rights.

That's like saying the word "food" is useless because there's nothing in
common between a sandwich and a bowl of rice.

> Those who are not confused by the term, are misguided as to what it
> means.

Or simply don't care.  IANAL and I refuse (until properly sued) to worry
about how lawyers think language should be used (although I probably
should have used the word "allegedly" in there somewhere, just to be
safe).

> > and you proved you're not [confused by the term]
> > [by listing some disparate fields of law that might be referred to by
> > the term]
> 
> This doesn't follow at all.  I requested that the "rights" being
> referred to should be stated, not handwaved with a term that presumes
> that copyright, patent, trademark, trade secret, or many other disparate
> legal areas can be lumped together.

And they explicitly name those rights in a more appropriate place than
here.  If you want Guido to run every missive by a lawyer before
posting, then perhaps it's time to ante up quite a donation to the PSF
(which, ISTR, was the primary purpose of the post).

> If PSF holds rights that are covered by *all* those fields of law, I'd
> be very surprised; but if the "rights" are *not* covered by all those
> different legal areas, then the term is useless.

So I can't say I've eaten breakfast unless I've in fact eaten a bit of
every possible breakfast food?  Instead I'm required to list ad nauseum
every item on my plate?

> > So you somehow managed to divine Guido's intent from that "ridiculous,
> > meaningless term"
> 
> No, I requested that the term be clarified, because *I don't* know what
> is meant by "The PSF holds the intellectual property rights for Python".
> It's a meaningless statement as it stands.

Only to those who haven't RTFM (or RTFL, in this case).

> If the PSF holds software patents in Python, I imagine many would be
> outraged.  I don't believe it does.  If it's not the case, why imply it
> with an overbroad term?

Or why use general terms at all for that matter?  Why not make every
statement an exacting mishmash of legalese?  I think I would rather
simply die.  Wait... not me, you ;)

> If the PSF holds trade secrets in Python, they are surely nullified by
> the publishing of the code.  If it's not the case, why imply it with an
> overbroad term?

Because it wasn't meant as a definitive statement regarding Python
licensing terms.  That has been done in an appropriate place already.

> > I don't think pedantic verbosity makes it any clearer, but may mislead
> > due to omission.
> 
> And using a term that attempts to blanket wildly different legal rights
> is *not* misleading due to omission?

When you say "attempts" you seem to be implying intent.  Being such a
lawyerly person, you must know that proof of intent is one of the more
difficult roads to tread in any argument.  If you can prove Guido's
intent was to mislead, then let's have it.  Otherwise, please let it
go.  This thread is so boring and OT my eyes are starting to water.


Regards,
Cliff

-- 
The cliffs around the crashing sea
Unsolved and endless, wait for me
               -Siouxsie and the Banshees





From skip at pobox.com  Mon Jul 28 10:43:04 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 09:43:04 -0500
Subject: Debugging Python ?
In-Reply-To: <008a01c354ad$5a52d840$6400a8c0@EVOD31>
References: <008a01c354ad$5a52d840$6400a8c0@EVOD31>
Message-ID: <16165.13944.763754.224629@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    Bill> I'd be happy to hear your techniques to debug python programs.

Crude though it may seem, I find print statements quite effective.  Works in
all environments as well. ;-)

    Bill> Is there any interactive debugging environment by any chance ?

Yes, there's pdb.  Search the source tree.  I'm sure some of the more
advanced IDEs have debugging support these days as well.  For a list, browse

    http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/moinmoin/PythonEditors

Skip




From ilya at cray.glas.net  Wed Jul 16 08:56:40 2003
From: ilya at cray.glas.net (Ilya Etingof)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 12:56:40 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: pySNMP: SNMPget example
References: <538fc8e.0307100356.4bf46554@posting.google.com> <betnfr$dqj$1@news.rol.ru> <538fc8e.0307140736.19eb777@posting.google.com> <bf07n8$i1b$1@news.rol.ru> <538fc8e.0307150703.48466779@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bf3i28$2sf$1@news.rol.ru>

> 1) Instead of writing '1.3.6.1.2.1.69.1.3.1', I would also like to be
> able to write 'docsDevSwServer'. Any idea how I can do that?

The right way is to use a MIB parser (for labels-to-oids translation) which
is not a part of pysnmp. Try looking at Python backend to libsmi. If you
expect to query just a small and definite set of OIDs, an alternative would be
to hardcode labels-to-oid mapping somewhere in your script.

-ilya



From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Jul 15 10:25:14 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 10:25:14 -0400
Subject: FCNTL module deprecation warning
References: <mailman.1058257476.15118.python-list@python.org> <slrnbh7o9t.61k.sybrenUSE@sybren.thirdtower.com>
Message-ID: <3F140ECA.A29C7593@engcorp.com>

Sybren Stuvel wrote:
> 
> Meyer, Tony enlightened us with:
> > C:\Program Files\Python23\lib\fcntl.py:7: DeprecationWarning: the
> > FCNTL module is deprecated; please use fcntl
> 
> Seems you're using windoze.
> 
> > It seems to be saying that I shouldn't use "import FCNTL" (which gives
> > the same warning), but "import fcntl", but that's what I _am_ doing.
> 
> Windoze has a case insensitive filesystem, and thus it can't see the
> difference between FCNTL and fcntl. Try removing the depricated FCNTL
> from your harddisk, or rename it to FCNTL-dep.py.

And check for any .pyc files that might be involved, like FCNTL.pyc,
since they might be confusing things even more...



From gh at ghaering.de  Sat Jul 12 10:33:47 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 16:33:47 +0200
Subject: Any pure-python relational databases?
In-Reply-To: <pan.2003.07.12.14.11.19.428895@127.0.0.1>
References: <pan.2003.07.12.14.11.19.428895@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <3F101C4B.5030104@ghaering.de>

David McNab wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I've been looking for some way to operat a relational database on a 3rd
> party web server.
> 
> The server runs Python 1.5.2, and does not have the MySQL-python module,
> (nor does it have libmysqlclient), which means I can't just talk to MySQL.
> 
> The web host is my client's choice, not mine, and there's very little
> prospect of getting them to upgrade their python or install mysql-python.
> 
> Is there:
> 
> 1) Any pure-python interface to MySQL? or

No.

> 2) Any kind of relational DBMS written in pure python that'll run on
> 1.5.2?

Old versions of Gadfly, perhaps.

> All help appreciated.

One advice: don't try to make the impossible possible for such clients. 
If you need Pyhton and database access then just tell them that their 
current web host is inappropriate for this.

-- Gerhard




From gsmatthew at ozemail.com.au  Sat Jul 19 16:02:45 2003
From: gsmatthew at ozemail.com.au (Graeme Matthew)
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 06:02:45 +1000
Subject: Threading Pool Event()
References: <0tRRa.212$vD1.8077@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au> <bf8ri5$cs7$1@panix1.panix.com> <NDZRa.273$vD1.11889@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au> <ia1Sa.304$vD1.13822@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au> <mailman.1058582130.2101.python-list@python.org> <9j3Sa.319$vD1.15038@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au> <3F195170.E60FB1A6@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <9uhSa.578$vD1.23592@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au>

guys thanks so much you have all been a great help

can t belive how easy it was in the end

here is my code, please criticise it to death i wont take offence

import threading, socket, sys
from Queue import Queue
from string import strip

#TODO:  Exception Handling

#ON A MULTIPLE CPU MACHINE 2 SEPERATE SERVERS SHOULD BE RUN
#THE INCOMING REQUEST WILL NEED TO BE SWITCHED BETWEEN SERVERS
#THIS IS DUE TO THE GLOBAL INTERPRETER LOCK (GIL) IN PYTHON

#-------------- global constants --------------------------------
THREAD_POOL_SIZE    = 5             #The number of threads to run
                                    #WARNING increasing threads does not
mean increased performance
BUFFER_SIZE         = 1024          #Buffer size for socket
PORT                = 6000          #Port server will listen on
HOST                = "localhost"
ADDR                = (HOST, PORT)
BACKLOG             = 5             #Backlog for server listen
#----------------------------------------------------------------

class Job:

    def __init__(self, csocket, addr):

        self.csocket = csocket      #Client Socket
        self.address = str(addr)    #Address (Host:Port) Pair

class ThreadPool:

    #TODO: investigate if Queue can be inherited ????

    def __init__(self):

        self.pool           = []        #Pool of threads
        self.queue          = Queue()   #Job stack FIFO

        #Initialise each worker thread and start
        for i in range(THREAD_POOL_SIZE):

            uq = UserRequestHandler(i,self)
            self.pool.append(uq)
            self.pool[i].start()

class UserRequestHandler(threading.Thread):

    def __init__(self, tid, tpool):

        threading.Thread.__init__(self)

        self.tid = tid                      #thread id so i can test what is
executing
        self.tpool = tpool                  #Reference to the threading pool

    def run(self):

        while 1:

            #keep calling queue, get method is blocking
            job = self.tpool.queue.get()
            self.execute(job)

    def execute(self,job):

        bufferChars = []
        data        = ''
        length      = 0
        recieved    = 0

        print "%d CONNECTED %s" % (self.tid , job.address)

        #Read in the first 20 bytes, all communication with this server
needs
        #to place a 20 byte header into it, i.e. netstring type concept

        header = job.csocket.recv(20)

        #if a possible header was retrieved
        if header:

            #remove any pads to make up 20 bytes
            header = strip(header)

            #calculate length of the header. if error occurs
            #then its an invalid header
            #TO DO: If an error occurs create XML error string
            #       send to view to produce error html
            try:
                length = long(header)
            except:
                job.csocket.send('Invalid Header')
            else:

                #Go into a continous loop until all the
                #bytes are recieved from the client

                while recieved != length: #keep sucking in data until header
len matches

                    buffer = job.csocket.recv(BUFFER_SIZE)
                    recieved += len(buffer)   #Record total length received
                    bufferChars.append(buffer)#add buffer to array

                data = data.join(bufferChars) #Convert buffer array into
string
                buffersChars = None           #Destroy buffer array, we dont
need it no more

                job.csocket.send("Server received")


        if job.csocket:
            job.csocket.shutdown(2)
            job.csocket.close()


def startServer():

    tpool = ThreadPool()
    server = socket.socket(socket.AF_INET, socket.SOCK_STREAM)
    server.bind(ADDR)
    server.listen(BACKLOG)

    print """
    Server running on %s
    Python %s
    Server listening for requests with %d threads in pool

    """ % (sys.platform,sys.version,THREAD_POOL_SIZE)

    while 1:

        (s, addr) = server.accept()
        job = Job(s,addr)
        tpool.queue.put(job)



if __name__ == '__main__':

    startServer()


"Peter Hansen" <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message
news:3F195170.E60FB1A6 at engcorp.com...
> Graeme Matthew wrote:
> >
> > ok so code like this is perfectly safe
> >
> > def run(self):
> >
> >     while 1:
> >
> >         job = queue.get()
> >
> >         __processjob()
>
> It's almost like you aren't even seeing Aahz' replies. ;-)
>
> The above is certainly safe, but can't be terminated easily.
> Just use the loop Aahz showed, which is the above plus the
> ability to terminate.
>
> -Peter





From timr at probo.com  Wed Jul 16 23:02:29 2003
From: timr at probo.com (Tim Roberts)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 20:02:29 -0700
Subject: Confusing automated translators.
References: <37d6f77c.0307130932.1e3adf0d@posting.google.com> <3f11ac74$0$49101$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl> <ad052e5c.0307131718.4903430d@posting.google.com> <3F12808B.E53193B8@hotmail.com> <87brvw3ula.fsf@pobox.com> <oqbrvvhnqm.fsf@alcyon.progiciels-bpi.ca> <mailman.1058280328.24828.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <sa4chv4rfqg93306db3a44214vcrummq7p@4ax.com>

Jack Diederich <jack at performancedrivers.com> wrote:
>
>My favorite example is comifying a list.
>"1, 2, and 3" vs "1, 2 and 3" (journalist seem to prefer the later)
>
>"I dedicate this book to my parents, Jane, and God."
>"I dedicate this book to my parents, Jane and God."

This is actually something that is changing over time.  It used to be that
"no final comma" was a hard and fast rule, but many of the more recent
style guides now suggest the comma.

My 7th grader's English textbook advocates the final comma, and it led me
to get her into trouble in one assignment.
-- 
- Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
  Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.



From imbosol at aerojockey.com  Sun Jul 20 23:51:59 2003
From: imbosol at aerojockey.com (Carl Banks)
Date: 20 Jul 2003 20:51:59 -0700
Subject: A challenge to the ASCII proponents.
References: <mailman.1058278343.23104.python-list@python.org> <bf167a$pvt$1@panix2.panix.com> <ufzl7rdno.fsf@online.no> <3F142A58.80426AA4@hotmail.com> <2259b0e2.0307161620.4a9353f1@posting.google.com> <Xns93BB246FDDBCFJanC@213.118.75.80> <3F168011.3AEB3EFC@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <60dfb6f6.0307201951.4eea1930@posting.google.com>

Alan Kennedy <alanmk at hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<3F168011.3AEB3EFC at hotmail.com>...
> So, the challenge to the ASCII proponents is: put the greek word
> "gignooskoo" on everybody's screen, originating from a usenet message,
> in the original greek, where "oo" -> greek letter omega.


I accept.

    ____        ____             ___    _____           ___
   |       |   |       |\   |   /   \   \       |  /   /   \
   |       |   |       | \  |   |   |    \      | /    |   |
   |       |   |       |  \ |   |   |     >     |<     |   |
   |       |   |       |   \|   \   /    /      | \    \   /
   |       |   |       |    |   _\ /_   /____   |  \   _\ /_



:-)

-- 
CARL BANKS



From someone at somewhere.com  Sun Jul 27 08:39:53 2003
From: someone at somewhere.com (reh)
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 12:39:53 GMT
Subject: eric3, pyqt, qscintilla - guru needed. 
Message-ID: <tKPUa.121681$Io.10389062@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>

Have installed on Redhat 9.0 in the following order;

Qscintilla
sip
PyQt

When I install eric3 (python install.py), I get this error;
  Sorry, please install QScintilla and/or reinstall
  PyQt with QScintilla support.

It seems the errors occurs in the install.py file at:
  from qtext import QextScintilla

>From qtext.py, I have typed in at the python prompt;
  >>> import libsip               # ok here
  >>> from qt import QWidet       # ok here
  >>> from qt import QObject      # ok here
  >>> from qt import QPrinter     # ok here
  >>> import libqtextc            # error here
  Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
  ImportError: libqscintilla.so.2: cannot open shared object file: No such 
file or directory
  >>>

Been through all readme files, tried just about everything. 
Anyone have an idea what's wrong.

-- 
robert
redhat 9.0




From nospam at mega-nerd.com  Sat Jul 19 23:24:23 2003
From: nospam at mega-nerd.com (Erik de Castro Lopo)
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 03:24:23 GMT
Subject: If stereo WAV file's both channels are identical, change format to 
 mono for all files recursively
References: <mailman.1058605289.13944.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3F1A0B1D.22DD9CE@mega-nerd.com>

Raseliarison nirinA wrote:
> 
> hi all,
> i found an unanswered question at
> http://www.faqts.com/knowledge_base/index.phtml/fid/538
> with possible response below. i've tried to send it at
> faqt.python but can't figure out how to edit the page. so i put it here.
> i want to kwon if this can convert all wave file. is there other
> encodage than 8 or 16 bits for .wav files?

Yes, dozens.

As well as 8 and 16 bit integer PCM files, there are also 24 
and 32 bit integer PCM, 32 and 64 bit floating point PCM,
A-law, u-law, at least 6 different forms of ADPCM (adaptive
differential PCM), GSM6.10, MP3 and many, many more.

Fortunately other than the ones listed above, all the others
are pretty rare.

Erik
-- 
+-----------------------------------------------------------+
  Erik de Castro Lopo  nospam at mega-nerd.com (Yes it's valid)
+-----------------------------------------------------------+
J. Headley: "God, root, what is difference ?"
G. Haverland: "God can change the byte order on the CPU, root can't."



From bokr at oz.net  Fri Jul 25 23:15:57 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 26 Jul 2003 03:15:57 GMT
Subject: path module
References: <1057651068.5348.386.camel@lothlorien> <20030708113219.H6906@prim.han.de> <mailman.1057686613.6463.python-list@python.org> <11234c14.0307211016.344d40bc@posting.google.com> <mailman.1059144006.6426.python-list@python.org> <just-8DDA38.17221725072003@news1.news.xs4all.nl> <mailman.1059151446.8466.python-list@python.org> <TxkUa.8061$Nh3.45265186@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com> <mailman.1059184119.2271.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bfsrpd$rqm$0@216.39.172.122>

On 25 Jul 2003 20:48:07 -0500, Ian Bicking <ianb at colorstudy.com> wrote:

>On Fri, 2003-07-25 at 20:10, Van Gale wrote:
>> Interesting, I started a project modifying Jason's Path module to work 
>> on subversion trees as well.  I didn't get too far before putting the 
>> project on a back-burner so I'm glad to hear someone else is thinking 
>> the same way :)
>> 
>> My extensions to Path included an additional argument to "open" that 
>> included a version number, and a mechanism for retrieving some kind of 
>> "metadata" associated with the file.
>
>It's interesting that different kinds of filesystems (or
>filesystem-like-things) have very different kinds of metadata
>available.  Like last-modified, last-accessed, inode (identity),
>version, title, branch, mimetype, log message, etc.  And then there's
>information that's not quite metadata... like <link ref> data, or the
>volume name, the host, etc.
>
>I feel like a common interface for these different filesystems should
>somehow degrade well in terms of metadata, or expedite introspection in
>some fashion.
>
IMO a mounted file system per se should be represented by an object, and then
that object should have the methods to deliver generic or file-system-specific
file and path and walking objects etc.

After all, even NT can see DOS partitions, vs NTFS vs raw floppy
and HD images of potentially foreign formats. And my slackware linux sees one DOS partition
that can be alternately booted, but can read from slackware via a mount.

Cf. another post in this thread (which didn't get any response ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From gumuz*NOSP at M*looze.net  Sun Jul 20 18:50:00 2003
From: gumuz*NOSP at M*looze.net (Guyon Morée)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 00:50:00 +0200
Subject: IMAP examples
References: <3f15cf46$0$45389$1b62eedf@news.wanadoo.nl> <cb035744.0307162203.6b058ee1@posting.google.com> <mailman.1058451388.5767.python-list@python.org> <1058561410.563105@smirk> <3F187ED4.6179CDDD@engcorp.com> <1058700676.64323@smirk>
Message-ID: <3f1b1c98$0$45383$1b62eedf@news.wanadoo.nl>

I vote for that to, it's a brilliant well-used system



"James T. Dennis" <jadestar at idiom.com> schreef in bericht
news:1058700676.64323 at smirk...
> Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:
> > "James T. Dennis" wrote:
>
> >> Sean 'Shaleh' Perry <shalehperry at comcast.net> wrote:
>
> >>>> If my english was better I would love to help improve the python
> >>>> documentation, most modules in the standard libraries lack good
> >>>> examples how to *use* them with just a simple description.  And a
> >>>> short motivation for the design of a module if possible like "just
> >>>> copied the C API" or "Because of efficiency ..." or "We use a class
> >>>> framework here because ...".  A gigantic task.  The PSL book by
effbot
> >>>> is great but it's a book.  And it needs a new version.
>
> >>> part of the reason why the docs are not but so great is that most of
the
> >>> library is Python code which means any questions can be answered by
reading
> >>> the source.  I find myself doing this quite often.
>
> >>  <flame>That's BS!</flame>
>
> >>  As a dabbler in programming I have to say that poor documentation is
not
> >>  excused by the availability of sources.
>
> > True, but poor documentation *is* excused quite nicely by the LACK
> > of availability of _re_sources, specifically the human resources and
time
> > required to make them better.
>
> > Or was your flame an indirect offer to assist with improving the
> > documentation of Python?  If so, thank you!
>
> > (It's not like you've paid anything for the privilege of whining...)
>
> > -Peter
>
>  Yes. Moreover my suggestion for an enhancement to the web site
>  docs would be a way to facilitate that.  Go look at the PHP
>  documentation.  Anyone reading it can attach comments; those can be
>  merged into the docs as appropriate.
>
>
>
> --
> Jim Dennis,
> Starshine: Signed, Sealed, Delivered
>





From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Jul  7 08:00:08 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 08:00:08 -0400
Subject: Will Python exceptions be documented?
References: <33a013af.0307070318.73013d4@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3F0960C8.93613E6D@engcorp.com>

Vegard Bakke wrote:
> 
> All know that asin(2) is wrong, but how do I know that ValueError is
> the exception I should catch, and how do I know that is the only one?
> (Sorry, try it is the wrong answere here.)

See http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/module-math.html where
on this specific case, for example, it says 

   Note: Specific exceptions raised in assorted error cases (and even 
   whether some arguments are considered to be exceptional at all) are 
   not defined in any useful cross-platform or cross-release way. For 
   example, whether math.log(0) returns -Inf or raises ValueError or 
   OverflowError is both platform- and release-dependent, and in cases where 
   math.log(0) raises an OverflowError, math.log(0L) often raises a ValueError. 

-Peter



From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sun Jul 13 12:19:08 2003
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 13 Jul 2003 12:19:08 -0400
Subject: anything like C++ references?
References: <000301c348c7$3c501980$21795418@dell1700> <iqm2hvs77lhe1m71v9b579070khbf0uv0a@4ax.com> <berqqd$ad5$1@panix3.panix.com> <brs2hv8edfv0d1fch9mha8otuulajnkh0g@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <bes0ps$l6$1@panix3.panix.com>

In article <brs2hv8edfv0d1fch9mha8otuulajnkh0g at 4ax.com>,
Stephen Horne  <intentionally at blank.co.uk> wrote:
>On 13 Jul 2003 10:37:01 -0400, aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) wrote:
>>In article <iqm2hvs77lhe1m71v9b579070khbf0uv0a at 4ax.com>,
>>Stephen Horne  <intentionally at blank.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>One of the few things I hate about Python is that mutable objects are
>>>implicitly shared using a reference system whereas immutable objects
>>>are not. 
>>
>>Well, that's incorrect.  *ALL* Python objects are implicitly shared with
>>bindings.  The difference is whether updating the value referenced by a
>>target requires *re*binding the target or simply updating an object.
>
>Fine - nit-pick.

Believe it or not, it is *not* a nit-pick, it goes right to the core of
Python's design and philosophy.

>All you have proven is that it is the distinction between types that
>get re-bound and those that don't (rather than the use of references)
>that is unnecessarily confusing and error prone.

Only for people who insist on thinking about it through the lens of some
other way to do it.

>A Python user is interested in how an object behaves - not how it is
>internally implemented in the interpreter. Immutable objects don't
>behave as references - the internal use of references for immutable
>objects is basically a lazy copying optimisation and, apart from
>performace and a couple of other technicalities (e.g. the 'is'
>operator), has no relevance. Certainly it has no relevance to the
>point I was making.

That's precisely where you are wrong.  Python's object model is
extremely strict and simple and orthogonal.  Everything works exactly
the same way.  Whether one can mutate a specific object is simply an
attribute of that object, rather than requiring a different syntax.
Trying to focus on the mutable/immutable distinction is what causes the
mental blowup -- keep your eye on the objects and bindings and you're
fine.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"Not everything in life has a clue in front of it...."  --JMS



From steve.horsley1 at virgin.NO_SPAM.net  Thu Jul 31 13:43:09 2003
From: steve.horsley1 at virgin.NO_SPAM.net (Steve Horsley)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 18:43:09 +0100
Subject: Python speed vs csharp
References: <rkdc7poiachh.1x4jtxjzaf3zo.dlg@40tude.net>
Message-ID: <pan.2003.07.31.17.43.09.82777@virgin.NO_SPAM.net>

On Wed, 30 Jul 2003 23:09:22 -0700, Mike wrote:

> Bear with me: this post is moderately long, but I hope it is relatively
> succinct. 
> 
> I've been using Python for several years as a behavioral modeling tool for
> the circuits I design. So far, it's been a good trade-off: compiled C++
> would run faster, but the development time of Python is so much faster, and
> the resulting code is so much more reliable after the first pass, that I've
> never been tempted to return to C++. Every time I think stupid thoughts
> like, "I'll bet I could do this in C++," I get out my copy of Scott Meyers'
> "Effecive C++," and I'm quickly reminded why it's better to stick with
> Python (Meyers is a very good author, but points out lots of quirks and
> pitfalls with C++ that I keep thinking that I shouldn't have to worry
> about, much less try to remember). Even though Python is wonderful in that
> regard, there are problems.
>

It might be worth having a look ay Jython. This allows python code to run
on a java VM by emitting JVM bytecode rather than standard python
interpreter bytecode. This gives you all the hotspot optimisations that
have been invested in java runtime performance. 

Steve



From gh at ghaering.de  Fri Jul 11 20:21:33 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 02:21:33 +0200
Subject: The ASPN compiler
In-Reply-To: <u8gugvovob6k3jou2oi4olsr6mp1fbqlqn@4ax.com>
References: <u8gugvovob6k3jou2oi4olsr6mp1fbqlqn@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3F0F548D.9040108@ghaering.de>

Fuzzyman wrote:
> What's the score on this (the ASPN python compiler) 

There was a proof-of-concept implementation of a Python compiler for the 
.NET platform done by ActiveState and sponsored by Microsoft.

> - is it a true
> compiler for python ? 

Read the whitepaper, available on the ActiveState site.

> - what does it output - binary or C++ for .NET
> framework............ 

Read the whitepaper, available on the ActiveState site.

> if the latter then it could be very cool as it
> may work with the PocketPC 2003 SDK.... for producing binaries for
> PDAs from python... cool...

Forget it. Instead what you probably want is a Python implementation for 
Windows CE 3.0. There is one.

> (I'm sure my terminology is way out of line here... sorry)
> 
> Does it work yet ?

Read the whitepaper, available on the ActiveState site.

RTFM. STFW. etc. :-P

-- Gerhard




From irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl  Mon Jul 14 04:44:08 2003
From: irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 08:44:08 -0000
Subject: Dr. Dobb's Python-URL! - weekly Python news and links (Jul 14)
Message-ID: <vh4raonsmcd555@corp.supernews.com>

QOTW:  "I'll claim without proof that how mixed-type comparisons work
with Python classes is also beyond wizard prediction in all cases: the
implementation of comparison in Python is crushingly complicated."
                                            -- Tim Peters

"Honest to God, if it doesn't have coloured cells all over the place, then
they [the engineers] kind of stare at you like rabbits caught in the
headlights of an oncoming car."         -- Mark Carter


Discussion
----------
     While syntax coloring sounds nice, Mark VandeWettering shows
     negative issues of syntax coloring in editors.
         <http://groups.google.com/groups?threadm=slrnbh0p28.uj.wettering at keck.vandewettering.net>

     Aahz explains what threading is most often used for and why
     Python usually doesn't have a scalability problem here.
         <http://groups.google.com/groups?threadm=bemhsb$dgn$1 at panix3.panix.com>

     Ian Bicking brings up Jason Orendorff's path module, starting a
     discussion about a different Python interface to the filesystem.
         <http://groups.google.com/groups?threadm=mailman.1057651032.22842.python-list at python.org>

     Bengt Richter and Peter Hansen use a helium-balloon metaphor while
     explaining Python's object naming principle.
         <http://groups.google.com/groups?threadm=3F0FD092.7D452008 at engcorp.com>
	
     Paul Rubin takes a negative-for-Python - but arguably sound - stance in
     the Python versus PHP web-applications discussion.
         <http://groups.google.com/groups?threadm=7xisqagvjt.fsf at ruckus.brouhaha.com>

     Raymond Hettinger intrigues with the first episode of a series of
     mysterious Python puzzles.
         <http://groups.google.com/groups?threadm=UiOPa.3259$Y92.1224 at nwrdny01.gnilink.net>


Announcements
-------------
     Guido is moving to the US West Coast.  His devotion to Python 
     continues.
	 <http://www.python.org/~guido>

     Congratulations to ActiveAwards winners Mark Hammond, Uche Ogbuji,
     Mike Olson, and Martin von Loewis.
         <http://www.ActiveState.com/ActiveAwards>

     PortalTransforms 1.0a1, part of Archetypes, a framework
     for the development of new Content Types in Zope/CMF/Plone.
         <http://www.sourceforge.net/projects/archetypes/>

     wxPyPlot 1.1, an enhanced derivative version of wxPlotCanvas
     to provide simple lightweight plotting in wxPython.
         <http://www.cyberus.ca/~g_will/wxPython/wxpyplot.html>

     Adept, a Declarative, Eval-based Program Tester. It is
     an unit testing tool where you define test cases as tuples.
         <http://csciwww.etsu.edu/phil/samples/adept.htm>

     EmPy 3.0.3, a system for embedding Python expressions and
     statements in template text.
         <http://www.alcyone.com/pyos/empy/>

     PyObjC 1.01, a bridge between Python and Objective-C that allows
     full-featured Cocoa applications to be written in pure Python.
         <http://pyobjc.sourceforge.net/>

     Vb2py 0.1, a toolkit to aid in the conversion of Visual Basic
     projects to Python (using PythonCard).
         <http://vb2py.sourceforge.net>

     YAMI 2.1, a lightweight and portable infrastructure for
     message-oriented network communication.
         <http://www.maciejsobczak.com/prog/yami/>

     PyQwt 3.7, a set of Python bindings for the Qwt C++ class library.
     Qwt extends the Qt framework with widgets for scientific and
     engineering applications.
         <http://pyqwt.sourceforge.net/>

     SpamBayes 1.0a4, a Bayesian anti-spam filter.
         <http://spambayes.org/>

     Spyce 1.3.11, a server-side language that supports simple and efficient
     Python-based dynamic HTML generation.
         <http://spyce.sourceforge.net/>

     ReportLab toolkit 1.18, a dynamic PDF generating solution.
         <http://www.reportlab.com/toolkit/>


========================================================================
Everything you want is probably one or two clicks away in these pages:

    Python.org's Python Language Website is the traditional
    center of Pythonia
        http://www.python.org
    Notice especially the master FAQ
        http://www.python.org/doc/FAQ.html

    PythonWare complements the digest you're reading with the
    daily python url
         http://www.pythonware.com/daily  
    Mygale is a news-gathering webcrawler that specializes in (new)
    World-Wide Web articles related to Python.
         http://www.awaretek.com/nowak/mygale.html 
    While cosmetically similar, Mygale and the Daily Python-URL
    are utterly different in their technologies and generally in
    their results.

    comp.lang.python.announce announces new Python software.  Be
    sure to scan this newly-revitalized newsgroup at least weekly.
        http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&as_ugroup=comp.lang.python.announce

    Brett Cannon continues the marvelous tradition established by 
    Andrew Kuchling and Michael Hudson of summarizing action on the
    python-dev mailing list once every other week.
	http://www.python.org/dev/summary/

    The Python Package Index catalogues packages.
        http://www.python.org/pypi/

    The somewhat older Vaults of Parnassus ambitiously collects references
    to all sorts of Python resources.
        http://www.vex.net/~x/parnassus/   

    Much of Python's real work takes place on Special-Interest Group
    mailing lists
        http://www.python.org/sigs/

    The Python Business Forum "further[s] the interests of companies
    that base their business on ... Python."
	http://www.python-in-business.org

    The Python Software Foundation has replaced the Python Consortium
    as an independent nexus of activity
        http://www.python.org/psf/

    Cetus does much of the same
        http://www.cetus-links.org/oo_python.html

    Python FAQTS
        http://python.faqts.com/

    The old Python "To-Do List" now lives principally in a
    SourceForge reincarnation.
        http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?atid=355470&group_id=5470&func=browse
        http://python.sourceforge.net/peps/pep-0042.html
     
    The online Python Journal is posted at pythonjournal.cognizor.com.
    editor at pythonjournal.com and editor at pythonjournal.cognizor.com
    welcome submission of material that helps people's understanding
    of Python use, and offer Web presentation of your work.

    *Py: the Journal of the Python Language*
        http://www.pyzine.com

    Archive probing tricks of the trade:
        http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&as_ugroup=comp.lang.python&num=100
        http://groups.google.com/groups?meta=site%3Dgroups%26group%3Dcomp.lang.python.*

Previous - (U)se the (R)esource, (L)uke! - messages are listed here:
  http://www.ddj.com/topics/pythonurl/         
  http://purl.org/thecliff/python/url.html (dormant)
or
  http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&as_q=+Python-URL!&as_ugroup=comp.lang.python


Suggestions/corrections for next week's posting are always welcome.
E-mail to <Python-URL at phaseit.net> should get through.

To receive a new issue of this posting in e-mail each Monday morning
(approximately), ask <claird at phaseit.net> to subscribe.  Mention
"Python-URL!".


-- The Python-URL! Team--

Dr. Dobb's Journal (http://www.ddj.com) is pleased to participate in and
sponsor the "Python-URL!" project.




From mmueller at dgfz.de  Wed Jul  9 11:08:31 2003
From: mmueller at dgfz.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Mike_M=FCller?=)
Date: 9 Jul 2003 08:08:31 -0700
Subject: tracebacks in embedded python
Message-ID: <7049ba55.0307090708.36f2a696@posting.google.com>

When I embed Python into C there is no traceback message on the screen
after an uncaught exception. Using sys.exc_info() I can print may own
traceback but I would need to insert try except statements at
different places. Is there a way to "turn on" traceback writing to
std.err (that also shows up at the screen)?

Thanks

Mike



From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Fri Jul 25 20:48:40 2003
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 20:48:40 -0400
Subject: How to detect typos in Python programs
References: <ZPaUa.6$gZ.133@news.oracle.com>
Message-ID: <vi3jv15sqqmm52@news.supernews.com>

Make it a policy that your unit test suite has 100%
statement coverage at all times. Then this
particular thing won't happen.

How do you do this without impacting your
development? Try Test Driven Development.
If you do it *properly*, you'll get close to
100% statement coverage without any extra
effort.

John Roth

"Manish Jethani" <manish.j at gmx.net> wrote in message
news:ZPaUa.6$gZ.133 at news.oracle.com...
> Hi all,
>
> Is there a way to detect typos in a Python program, before
> actually having to run it.  Let's say I have a function like this:
>
>   def server_closed_connection():
>     session.abost()
>
> Here, abort() is actually misspelt.  The only time my program
> follows this path is when the server disconnects from its
> end--and that's like once in 100 sessions.  So sometimes I
> release the program, people start using it, and then someone
> reports this typo after 4-5 days of the release (though it's
> trivial to fix manually at the user's end, or I can give a patch).
>
> How can we detect these kinds of errors at development time?
> It's not practical for me to have a test script that can make
> the program go through all (most) the possible code paths.
>
> -Manish
>
> -- 
> Manish Jethani (manish.j at gmx.net)
> phone (work) +91-80-51073488
>
>





From akaihola at ambi-spam-me-not-tone.com  Tue Jul 22 02:48:26 2003
From: akaihola at ambi-spam-me-not-tone.com (Antti Kaihola)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 09:48:26 +0300
Subject: Automatically filling in answers to interactive shell command
 questions
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1058830119.15576.python-list@python.org>
References: <d365ef4b.0307211423.27ba6d86@posting.google.com> <mailman.1058830119.15576.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <245Ta.424$HC4.387@reader1.news.jippii.net>

>     >>> import os
>     >>> outf = os.popen('addperson', 'w')
>     >>> inf = file('answer_file', 'r')
>     >>> outf.write(inf.read())
>     >>> inf.close()
>     >>> outf.close()

Would this work:

import os, shutil
shutil.copyfileobj(file('answer_file'), os.popen('addperson', 'w'))




From pythonguy at Hotpop.com  Sun Jul 20 11:21:39 2003
From: pythonguy at Hotpop.com (Anand Pillai)
Date: 20 Jul 2003 08:21:39 -0700
Subject: XML parser and py2exe
Message-ID: <84fc4588.0307200721.970b9d9@posting.google.com>

I am using the expat parser in the 'xml.parsers.expat' module in
my code. The code works well as source, but the py2exe executable created
using it does not. I get the following traceback.

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<string>", line 146, in ?
  File "imputil.pyo", line 103, in _import_hook
  File "<string>", line 52, in _import_top_module
  File "imputil.pyo", line 216, in import_top
  File "imputil.pyo", line 271, in _import_one
  File "<string>", line 128, in _process_result
  File "HarvestManConfig.pyo", line 110, in ?
  File "imputil.pyo", line 103, in _import_hook
  File "<string>", line 52, in _import_top_module
  File "imputil.pyo", line 216, in import_top
  File "imputil.pyo", line 271, in _import_one
  File "<string>", line 128, in _process_result
  File "HarvestManXMLParser.pyo", line 12, in ?
  File "imputil.pyo", line 132, in _import_hook
  File "<string>", line 70, in _finish_import
  File "imputil.pyo", line 318, in _load_tail
ImportError: No module named _xmlplus.parsers

I am creating my py2exe executable like this.

$python setup.py py2exe --packages=encodings -O2

Where the setup.py is the standard py2exe script for
creating executables. (copied below).

# setup.py
# install script for py2exe
from distutils.core import setup
import py2exe

setup(name="HarvestMan",
     scripts=["HarvestMan.py"],
)

Thanks,

~Anand



From eddie at holyrood.ed.ac.uk  Mon Jul 14 11:57:10 2003
From: eddie at holyrood.ed.ac.uk (Eddie Corns)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 15:57:10 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Expressing time.
References: <beuhku$68e$1@canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca>
Message-ID: <beujsm$9rb$1@scotsman.ed.ac.uk>

"Sean" <null-spam at tfh.ca> writes:

>I'm playing around times and dates.  I'd like to determine the age of
>particular sets of data in a user friendly matter.

>I've got everything ready but dealing with time in a user friendly manner.

>What would be a good way to express (in python):
>        time.localtime()+30 days
>        time.localtime()+5 minutes
>        time.localtime()+2 months
>        time.localtime()-2 years

>Is there any python facilities to make this an easier chore (aka
>time.localtime()+months(3))?
>(I included months as it is a special case in that you can't just
>arbitrarily calculate months in seconds without being relative to a
>particular month).

mx.DateTime makes these sort of calculations easy.  I have a similarish task
in presenting users an easy way of specifying which day's log files to search
(hence in this case it was always a date in the past but the principle would
be similar).  So I allow things like 'monday', 'tuesday' etc. and -n for n
days ago and several other variations.  The interesting one in this instance
is:

    dm_reg  = re.compile (r'^(-?\d\d?)[/.](-?\d\d?)$')
    this_day = today()

    # dd/mm (-ve dd means count from end of month, -mm is mm months ago)
    mt = re.match (dm_reg, user_input)
    if mt:
        dy,mon = map(int, mt.groups())
        if mon < 0:
            mon = this_day.month + mon
            if mon <= 0:
                mon = 12 + mon
        dt = DateTime (this_day.year, mon, dy)
        if dt > this_day:
            dt = DateTime (this_day.year-1, mon, dy)
        return dt

Which allows eg 1/-2 for the first of whatever month was 2 months ago or even
-1/-1 for the last day of the previous month.  mx.DateTime is doing all the
hard work.  You could cook up something similar to parse eg "-2m" "+2y" etc.

Possibly the new time stuff in 2.3 will do this also, I haven't looked at 2.3
yet.

Eddie



From bitbucket at electron.me.uk  Fri Jul  4 19:09:48 2003
From: bitbucket at electron.me.uk (Geoffrey Clements)
Date: Sat, 05 Jul 2003 00:09:48 +0100
Subject: Eric3 segfaulting
References: <3f060811$0$56603$bed64819@pubnews.gradwell.net>
Message-ID: <3f06093a$0$56603$bed64819@pubnews.gradwell.net>

Some more info:
If I make line 75 a blank line by putting a return in it stills fails on
that line!

-- 
Geoff                                           Registered Linux user 196308
Replace bitbucket with geoff to mail me.



From staschuk at telusplanet.net  Thu Jul 17 20:31:33 2003
From: staschuk at telusplanet.net (Steven Taschuk)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 18:31:33 -0600
Subject: Bug overriding operators in new-style classes?
In-Reply-To: <00cb01c34c96$736685d0$2700000a@esss.com.br>; from nicodemus@globalite.com.br on Thu, Jul 17, 2003 at 04:05:56PM -0300
References: <00cb01c34c96$736685d0$2700000a@esss.com.br>
Message-ID: <20030717183133.D931@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>

Quoth Nicodemus:
> I found a surprising behavior regarding new-style classes operator lookup.
> It seems that for operators, the instance methods are ignored. Observe:
  [...]
> Is this a bug, or am I missing something? Any help would be appreciated.

Working as designed, I think [1], though I've never actually seen
it documented.  As you have observed, invocation of a magic method
(such as __add__ or __len__) by way of a special notation (such as
+ or len()) ignores the instance dict.  That is,
    len(x)
is not equivalent to
    x.__len__()
(which would find __len__ in the instance dict by normal attribute
access) but to
    type(x).__len__(x)
(which obviously ignores the instance dict).

We get this question fairly frequently.  (Last time I think it was
about the iterator protocol's .next() method.)  It really ought to
be documented somewhere; the obvious place would be
    <http://www.python.org/2.2.2/descrintro.html>
(until the real documentation catches up).  Anybody want to write
a patch?

[1] One reason I think it's intended is that these protocols
specify a self argument; for new-style classes, this is provided
by the descriptor machinery, which by design works only when the
function is found in the class dict.

-- 
Steven Taschuk                               staschuk at telusplanet.net
"[T]rue greatness is when your name is like ampere, watt, and fourier
 -- when it's spelled with a lower case letter."      -- R.W. Hamming




From max at alcyone.com  Mon Jul  7 03:45:51 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 00:45:51 -0700
Subject: anything new on the ternary operator?
References: <mailman.1057533670.9800.python-list@python.org> <beae42$d01$1@panix2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <3F09252F.9B0F52BD@alcyone.com>

Aahz wrote:

> Guido made clear before the vote that only a clear statement from the
> community would drive the addition of the ternary operator.  Given
> that
> the vote did not present a clear result, he did what he said he'd do.
> How's that a prbolem?

Bob's phrasing of it was obviously overly confrontational, but I do find
it at least a little unfortunate that the final decision on PEP 308 only
came indirectly (meaning not as any form of widespread public
announcement, but rather as a side point in a presentation at a local
conference) and many months after the voting processes was resolved
(which was in February, if I recall correctly).

Even the PEP on the subject hasn't been updated, and only those who
attended his particular presentation in a particular conference have
found out this decision (which, of course, they communicated to us just
now).  (Mind you, after months of silence about the issue, it's not like
the decision should at all be a surprise to anyone.)

There isn't a problem that PEPs and such voting processes are worthless
-- obviously the BDFL has the final say -- but perhaps it would have
been a little nicer to get an official position on the subject earlier.

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ I am a gentlemen:  I live by robbing the poor.
\__/  George Bernard Shaw



From ben at dadsetan.com  Thu Jul 10 02:57:36 2003
From: ben at dadsetan.com (Behrang Dadsetan)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 08:57:36 +0200
Subject: Deleting specific characters from a string
In-Reply-To: <v26Pa.3428$o86.363@news1.central.cox.net>
References: <begfb3$7j6$1@online.de> <3F0C851C.4000500@livinglogic.de><3F0C8AC3.5010304@dadsetan.com> <mailman.1057789156.27025.python-list@python.org> <v26Pa.3428$o86.363@news1.central.cox.net>
Message-ID: <bej2s1$hkf$3@online.de>

Jeff Hinrichs wrote:
> def stringReplace(s,c):
> """Remove any occurrences of characters in c, from string s
>     s - string to be filtered, c - characters to filter"""
>     for a in c:
>         s = s.replace(a,'')
>     return s
> 
> It wins also by being easy to understand, no filter or lambda.  Not that I
> have anything against filter or lambda, but when the speediest method is the
> most readable, that solution is definitely the Pythonic champ. :)

Well I really had nothing against the filter, but this solution looks 
also acceptable.

Thanks.
Ben.




From mike at nospam.com  Fri Jul 18 13:48:30 2003
From: mike at nospam.com (Mike Rovner)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 10:48:30 -0700
Subject: Perl -> Python hopeless?
References: <3f182c9a$0$276$ba620e4c@reader0.news.skynet.be>
Message-ID: <bf9bre$uar$1@main.gmane.org>

"Helmut Jarausch" <jarausch at skynet.be> wrote in message news:3f182c9a$0$276

> having been a Perl fan for years I have nearly converted to Python.

I went the same way, happy with python now and never looked back.

> Still, there are LOTS and very good modules written in Perl.
> Is there a tool to lesson the burdon of translation of Perl to Python?

IMHO language differences leads to different style and I found that
rewriting is better than semi-automatic translation.

I had a project first implemented in perl, than rewrote in python.
Some idioms are completely different, for ex. code blocks in perl are
natural, classes are not.
OTOH classes are natural in python and no unnamed code blocks exists.
The list may be continued on and on.

Just .02

Mike







From tdelaney at avaya.com  Mon Jul  7 18:09:22 2003
From: tdelaney at avaya.com (Delaney, Timothy C (Timothy))
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 08:09:22 +1000
Subject: Using Loops to track user input
Message-ID: <338366A6D2E2CA4C9DAEAE652E12A1DE844849@au3010avexu1.global.avaya.com>

> From: Peter Hansen [mailto:peter at engcorp.com]
> 
> You missed this one Gerhard.  In another thread, hokiegal99 already
> told us "I am a funeral director trying to write a small program that 
> calculates the number of years, months and days a person has lived by 
> entering the year, month and day of their birth. ..."
> 
> Not homework this time. :-)

Of if so, a worthy attempt at deviousness that should be rewarded :)

Tim Delaney




From p-abel at t-online.de  Wed Jul 16 07:00:37 2003
From: p-abel at t-online.de (Peter Abel)
Date: 16 Jul 2003 04:00:37 -0700
Subject: Open MS Excel Spreadsheet with Python
References: <mailman.1058229111.12248.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <13a533e8.0307160300.678d1c36@posting.google.com>

"Allison Bailey" <allisonb at terralogicgis.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.1058229111.12248.python-list at python.org>...
> Hi Folks,
> 
> I'm a brand new Python programmer, so please point me in the right
> direction if this is not the best forum for this question....
> 
> I would like to open an existing MS Excel spreadsheet and extract
> information from specific worksheets and cells.
> 
> I'm not really sure how to get started with this process.
> I ran the COM Makepy utility from my PythonWin (IDE from ActiveSTate),
> using Microsoft Excel 10.0 Object Library, then
> import win32com.client
> xl = win32com.client.Dispatch("Excel.Application")
> wb = xl.Workbooks.Open ("c:\\data\\myspreadsheet.xls")
> 
> Then, I get errors when I try the following:
> sh = wb.worksheets(1)
> 

Try 
>>> sh=wb.Sheets[1]
OR
>>> sh=xl.Workbooks[0].Sheets[1]
You need to have only 1 Workbook open or the one you
want, must be the first one

>>> xl.Workbooks[0].Sheets[1]==wb.Sheets[1]
1

Regards
Peter


> 
> I think I'm missing something fairly fundamental, but I've googled all
> over the place and can't seem to find anything very introductory about
> opening and using data from MS Excel using Python.  Any suggestions,
> including places to get more information are welcome.  
> 
> Also, do I need to run the makepy utility every time I run my script?
> If so, how would I do it from within my Python program, rather than with
> the GUI in the IDE?
> 
> Thanks for your help,
> 
> Allison
> 
> 
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Allison Bailey
> TerraLogic GIS, Inc.
> allisonb at terralogicgis.com
> 425-673-4495
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



From martin at v.loewis.de  Thu Jul 10 18:37:50 2003
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 00:37:50 +0200
Subject: A new view of gcmodule.c
In-Reply-To: <vgrqchjqcpr350@corp.supernews.com>
References: <vgrqchjqcpr350@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <3F0DEABE.4050205@v.loewis.de>

Edward K. Ream wrote:
> This outline makes clear just how good the code really is. I shall not soon
> forget the dawning realization that this code is absolutely beautiful:
> incredibly short, simple and elegant. 

This was my reaction when I first saw it also.

Regards,
Martin





From donn at drizzle.com  Sun Jul 13 20:30:20 2003
From: donn at drizzle.com (Donn Cave)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 00:30:20 -0000
Subject: anything like C++ references?
References: <000301c348c7$3c501980$21795418@dell1700> <iqm2hvs77lhe1m71v9b579070khbf0uv0a@4ax.com> <berqqd$ad5$1@panix3.panix.com> <brs2hv8edfv0d1fch9mha8otuulajnkh0g@4ax.com> <bes0ps$l6$1@panix3.panix.com> <qi13hv4s21i8mtr2e600jumm54hqs7tppu@4ax.com> <mailman.1058125699.26133.python-list@python.org> <sag3hv4vf884ed7ouu5cv8ofnopp9j1t12@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <1058142619.577000@yasure>

Quoth Stephen Horne <intentionally at blank.co.uk>:
...
| One way or the other, Python is currently choosing not to respect the
| computer science definition of those terms. It may have historic and
| backward-compatability reasons, but that does not change the facts.
| This deviation from computer science definitions, whatever the excuse,
| is arbitrary, confusing and error prone. That is my problem.

Well, there you have it - it does seem to be your problem.  If we
were talking about a practical problem, we might be able to resolve
it with a few lines of code or an explanation of what really happens
when the code in question runs.  But in this case, we all seem to
know perfectly well what happens, and how to write the code we need.

Python's system works.  It's simple, practical and reasonably elegant.
If it doesn't work for you for some practical reason, I'd be surprised.
If you object to it on principle for some reason related to computer
science definitions, that really is your problem.  I do suspect that
it would be also be due to some confusion on your part about either
how Python actually works, or what these computer science definitions
really say and how consistent and unambiguous they are, but from prior
experience with this type of thing I think it would be a mistake to
try to pursue it further here.  It's computer science's job to describe
how Python works, not Python's job to match up with their terminology.
If you're one of those computer scientists, (or if you're not) you're
welcome to offer your interpretation.

	Donn Cave, donn at drizzle.com



From jidanni at jidanni.org  Fri Jul 25 23:26:28 2003
From: jidanni at jidanni.org (Dan Jacobson)
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 11:26:28 +0800
Subject: where is the awk to python translator program
Message-ID: <87smounf2z.fsf@jidanni.org>

An old dog can't learn new tricks, so where's the a2py awk to python
translator?  Perl has a2p.  E.g. today I wonder how to do '{print
$1}', well with a2p I know how to do it in perl, but with python I am
supposed to hunker down with the manuals.



From bgailer at alum.rpi.edu  Wed Jul  2 16:53:57 2003
From: bgailer at alum.rpi.edu (Bob Gailer)
Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 14:53:57 -0600
Subject: What's the use of module spaces? (was Re: Circular
  Inheritance)
In-Reply-To: <1057174986.726.166.camel@lothlorien>
References: <bdus8k$qsq$1@panix1.panix.com>
 <mailman.1057099023.14043.python-list@python.org>
 <slrnbg4850.st5.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>
 <mailman.1057124943.21695.python-list@python.org>
 <bdus8k$qsq$1@panix1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20030702145058.023d4c10@66.28.54.253>

At 02:43 PM 7/2/2003 -0500, Ian Bicking wrote:

>On Wed, 2003-07-02 at 10:03, Aahz wrote:
> > In article <mailman.1057124943.21695.python-list at python.org>,
> > Ian Bicking  <ianb at colorstudy.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >You might encounter less problems if those classes go together in a
> > >single module, but module boundaries are just there to help the
> > >programmer organize code, they have little formal meaning.
> >
> > That's not true.  Modules define a namespace, and Python's execution
> > model makes heavy use of the "global" (read, current module's) namespace
> > for name resolution.
>
>Certainly modules have considerable *semantics* and effect execution.
>But they have little *meaning*.  There's all sorts of semantics
>associated with classes, but that's incidental to the meaning of a class
>-- a class is a set up behaviors common to a kind of object.  A module
>is just a pile of stuff the programmer likes to keep together.  It's
>essentially a clerical feature.

Reminds me of the question: "What's the function of mortar." Most will say 
"To hold bricks together." But it ALSO keeps them apart!

I prefer to think of modules as a tool to keep various parts of a complex 
application apart, rather than having all of them in one module. This 
improves readability, maintenance and testing.

Bob Gailer
bgailer at alum.rpi.edu
303 442 2625
-------------- next part --------------

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From ianb at colorstudy.com  Thu Jul 31 23:16:43 2003
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: 31 Jul 2003 22:16:43 -0500
Subject: Python's biggest compromises
In-Reply-To: <vij2f3qjrngled@news.supernews.com>
References: <899f842.0307310555.56134f71@posting.google.com>
	 <viibo7t45unv83@news.supernews.com> <TBO13LAmBVK$Ewml@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
	 <vij2f3qjrngled@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <1059707803.12752.479.camel@lothlorien>

On Thu, 2003-07-31 at 16:27, John Roth wrote:
> "Robin Becker" <robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:TBO13LAmBVK$Ewml at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk...
> > In article <viibo7t45unv83 at news.supernews.com>, John Roth
> > <newsgroups at jhrothjr.com> writes
> > >
> > .....
> > >High performance isn't Python's target. If PyPy ever gets their act
> > >off the ground, then we will have a shot at a good quality JIT
> > >interpreter. Then watch it fly.
> > >
> > .... doesn't psyco already attempt to do JIT? It certainly doesn't
> > speed things up that much. If all the variables are known to be of a
> > specific type then you could expect C like speeds from a good JIT, but
> > without global analysis it's hard to see how we infer/guarantee python
> > types.
> 
> Well, that's certainly a problem, but Bicycle Repair Man seems to
> do a pretty good job of type inference, at least for refactoring.

And Java's JIT is based on (at least originally) work done on Self,
which had to do type inference.  And actually in many circumstances Java
requires type inference, because you can substitute in an instance of a
subclass. 

Anyway, JIT is all about runtime analysis -- if you could infer types
completely before running the program, you would just put in the
optimizations statically (i.e., compiling optimizations).  JIT does
those optimizations at runtime by definition.

And Bicycle Repair Man is inspired by the Refactoring Browser, an IDE
tool based on another dynamic language (Smalltalk), not on a tool from a
static language (like Java).

  Ian






From harry.g.george at boeing.com  Tue Jul 22 09:17:55 2003
From: harry.g.george at boeing.com (Harry George)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 13:17:55 GMT
Subject: Voting Project Needs Python People
References: <LDVSa.14955$Mc.1126731@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <xqxwuebfyym.fsf@cola2.ca.boeing.com> <bfhhgq$5lu$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net> <xqx7k6b36r8.fsf@cola2.ca.boeing.com> <jk_Sa.113364$Io.9707082@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <7x65lv31hf.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <z8%Sa.113480$Io.9712518@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <xqxsmoyitto.fsf@cola2.ca.boeing.com>

"Alan Dechert" <adechert at earthlink.net> writes:

> "Paul Rubin" <http://phr.cx at NOSPAM.invalid> wrote in message
> news:7x65lv31hf.fsf at ruckus.brouhaha.com...
> > "Alan Dechert" <adechert at earthlink.net> writes:
> > > > 1. Software chooses 1% of votes to change (big enough to have an
> > > >    effect, small enough to maybe go unnoticed).
> > > >
> > > I don't think this is a possible scenario.  However, it brings up an
> > > interesting test for our full blown study (keep in mind, we're trying to
> > > focus on getting the demo done even though people want to jump ahead to
> > > speculate on every possible detail).
> >
> > But something like that seems to have happened in Escambia County,
> > Florida, in 2000.  Out of 21,500 absentee ballots cast, 296 (1.5% of
> > the total) were overvotes with three or more presidential candidates
> > checked.  ZERO were overvotes with exactly two candidates checked.
> > Ballot tampering after the ballots were received is the most plausible
> > explanation.
> >
> But that's a different scenario.  As you described it, the voter never had a
> chance to see the alteration.  The scenario Harry described is where the
> voter has the altered ballot in hand but doesn't notice.
> 

No, I said the paper and the CRT or LCD were correct.  It was just the
electronic storage that was altered.


> > You said that in your system the paper ballots are
> > supposed to take priority over the electronic count if there is a
> > dispute (that's the whole point of having the paper ballots).  So it
> > doesn't matter if the paper and electronic results don't match, and
> > the tampering doesn't have to happen while the voter can still see the
> > ballot.
> >
> I don't see much of a point here.  It will be very hard -- if not
> impossible -- to tamper with the printout in a manner that would go
> undetected.  First of all, overvotes will not be possible at all.  I can't
> quite visualize how you figure someone will alter the printout.  Take some
> whiteout and cover one name and print in a new one?  That would look pretty
> obvious.  Furthermore, the bar code would no longer match the text.  In my
> scheme, the tamperer would have no way to know how to alter the bar code to
> match any alterations in the text.
> 
> Post election checks (canvass period) would involve hand checks, and scanner
> checks of the bar code and the text.  It all has to match.
> 
> > Reference:
> >
> >   http://www.failureisimpossible.com/essays/escambia.htm
> >
> > Note: Paul Lukasiak, the main author of that article, did some of the
> > most thorough analysis of the Florida debacle that I've seen.  I hope
> > you will read a lot of his stuff in designing your real system, so
> > you'll be able to say how your system deals with the problems that he
> > identified in Florida.
> >
> I read as much as possible and will continue to study all of this.  Keep in
> mind that some of the people on our team are leading experts in the field.
> They know all this stuff inside out.  We'll bring in more experts once the
> study is funded.
> 
> Nobody is saying this issue is simple.  Almost everyone that has approached
> the voting mess dilemma and tried to figure it out has grossly
> underestimated the problem.  I have to say I underestimated too but I have
> stuck with it long enough and hard enough to get a handle on it.  Our
> Election Rules Database (the largest component of our proposed study) will
> surface inordinate problems -- get them out in the open where we can deal
> with them.
> 
> Alan Dechert
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

-- 
harry.g.george at boeing.com
6-6M31 Knowledge Management
Phone: (425) 294-8757



From FBatista at uniFON.com.ar  Thu Jul 24 17:09:53 2003
From: FBatista at uniFON.com.ar (Batista, Facundo)
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 18:09:53 -0300
Subject: Standard behaviour of a getSomething method
Message-ID: <A128D751272CD411BC9200508BC2194D03382C3A@escpl.tcp.com.ar>

Resending... get no answers, don't remember if this mail reached the list.


When I want to know about a attribute (e.g.: myAttrib) of an object, I
should use the specific method (e.g.: getMyAttrib).

Considering that this attribute is always another object (everything is an
object in Python), what should getMyAttrib do?

	1) Return the object
	2) Return a copy of the object

How do I return a copy of the object?

Thanks for all.

.	Facundo




From bokr at oz.net  Sun Jul 27 13:02:04 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 27 Jul 2003 17:02:04 GMT
Subject: How safe is modifying locals()?
References: <BDcUa.100193$XV.6037947@twister.austin.rr.com>	 <MvCdnTkcoJNP_7yiXTWJjw@comcast.com>	 <WMdUa.100343$XV.6044659@twister.austin.rr.com> <mailman.1059173799.17228.python-list@python.org> <ZqlUa.102243$XV.6096809@twister.austin.rr.com> <bfttd5$gtc$1@online.de> <Y_wUa.103853$XV.6162947@twister.austin.rr.com> <bfutsf$flc$0@216.39.172.122> <3TIUa.107401$XV.6252339@twister.austin.rr.com>
Message-ID: <bg10ic$2l1$0@216.39.172.122>

On Sun, 27 Jul 2003 04:51:11 GMT, Paul Paterson <paulpaterson at users.sourceforge.net> wrote:

[...]

>To my eye, the [:] or [0] spelling of this makes the code look more 
>complex than necessary, but I think you are on to something because if 
>you spell it,
>
>def change(x, y):
>    x = 'new x'
>    y.update('new y')
>

For a general pointer, ISTM you want to be able to dereference it for both getting and setting.
The [:] or [0] syntax gets you that, and you could do it with p() for getting and p(val) for setting,
or p.getval() and p.update(), but all these get clumsy when you want to use the "pointer" on
both sides of an assignment statement, e.g.,

    p.update(p.getval()+' added text for target')

where you could write more readably (IMO),

    p.value = p.value + 'added text for target'

or
    p.v += 'added text for target'


Below is a class PNS that lets you spell as immediately above, using .value
(and .v for concise use) bound to a property that implements the accessing of
what's pointed/referred to. I gave it a somewhat informative __repr__ method also,
so the test prints better. As you will note, this is now separate from any particular
name space. Any object that supports getattr and/or setattr can be used. I also
threw in a permissions parameter to control read/write/delete. See nsother and math
in examples. Note also that a pointer may point to another pointer, allowing cascaded
dereferencing spelled p.v.v etc.

>with the relevant changes to the Ptr class then it could certainly grow 
>on me. The things I like are,
>
>- no new variable names in the 'change' function so it looks similar to 
>the original code
>- the mechanism for propogating changes to the caller scope is explicit
>- 'y' can be passed on to another function if needed and things are 
>still clear
>
>eg,
>
>def change(x, y):
>     x = 'new x'
>     change2(y)
>
>def change2(y):
>     y.update('deep change in y')
>
If you use PNS, that will be spelled

 def change(x, y):
      x = 'new x'
      change2(y)
 
 def change2(y):
      y.value = 'deep change in y'

See test() code below. I used your original class Namespace: pass as the main namespace.

>
>To do this using the original namespace approach gets a little tricky 
>because you have to merge the namespaces as you go. The pointer idea 
>flattens that structure.
>

====< pns.py >==========================================================
class PNS(object):
    """
    Pointer to Name Space
    PNS instance holds ns ref and vname for access to ns.vname
    Read, write, delete access permitted if r,w,d in perms, respectively.
    Typical: ptr_to_x = PNS(ns, 'x')
    """
    __slots__ = 'ns vname ok_r ok_w ok_d'.split()
    class PNSError(Exception):
        def __init__(self, ptr, msg):
            Exception.__init__(self, '%s for %r' %(msg, ptr))
        
    def __init__(self, ns, vname, perms='rwd'):
        self.ns=ns; self.vname=vname
        self.ok_r = 'r' in perms
        self.ok_w = 'w' in perms
        self.ok_d = 'd' in perms
    def _getv(self):
        """Typical read access: x = ptr.value (x = ptr.v works too)"""
        if self.ok_r: return getattr(self.ns, self.vname)
        raise self.PNSError(self, 'Value read prohibited')
    def _setv(self, v):
        """Typical write access: ptr.value = 'new x' (ptr.v = 'new x' works too)"""
        if self.ok_w: setattr(self.ns, self.vname, v)
        else: raise self.PNSError(self, 'Value write prohibited')
    def _delv(self):
        """Typical del access: del ptr.value (del ptr.v works too)"""
        if self.ok_d: delattr(self.ns, self.vname)
        else: raise self.PNSError(self, 'Value deletion prohibited')
    value = v = property(_getv, _setv, _delv) # .v for short
    def __repr__(self): return '<PNS ptr to %r of %r>'%(self.vname, self.ns)

class Namespace(object): pass

def test():
    ns = Namespace()
    ns.x = 'x value'
    ns.y = 'y value' 
    print 'Before change:'
    print 'ns.x=%r, ns.y=%r' %(ns.x, ns.y)
    print 'Making pointer py point to ns.y ...'
    py = PNS(ns, 'y') # prefixing pointer names with 'p' is not mandatory, just mnemonic
    print 'ptr py=%r' % py
    
    def change(x, y): # prefixing pointer names with 'p' is not mandatory, just mnemonic
        x = 'new x'
        y.value = 'new y'

    print 'Calling change(ns.x, py) ...'
    change(ns.x, py)
    print 'After change:'
    print 'ns.x=%r, ns.y=%r' %(ns.x, ns.y)
    
    def change1(x, y):
        x = 'new x'
        change2(y)
    
    def change2(y):
        y.v = 'deep change in y'

    print 'Before change1/change2:'
    print 'ns.x=%r, ns.y=%r' %(ns.x, ns.y)
    change1(ns.x, py)
    print 'After calling change1(ns.x, py):'
    print 'ns.x=%r, ns.y=%r' %(ns.x, ns.y)
    
    pz = PNS(ns, 'z')
    print '\nNew pointer to non-existent ns.z:\n%r' % pz
    print 'Trying to access as yet nonexistent ns.z ...'
    try: ns.z
    except Exception, e: print '%s: %s'% (e.__class__.__name__,e)
    else: print 'ns.z accessed ok'
   
    print 'Passing pz to change(ns.x, pz)...'
    change(ns.x, pz)
    print 'Result: ns.x=%r, ns.z=%r' %(ns.x, ns.z)
    print '\nBefore deleting ns.y via py.v:'
    print 'ns.y=%r, py.v=%r' %(ns.y, py.v)
   
    print '\nDeleting ns.y by del py.value ...'
    del py.value
    print 'Trying to access ns.y ...'
    try: ns.y
    except Exception, e: print '%s: %s'% (e.__class__.__name__,e)
    else: print 'ns.y accessed ok'
   
    print '\nCreating nsother name space to put pz in as a value ...'
    nsother = type('AnotherNS',(),{})()
    print nsother
    nsother.pz = pz
    print 'Creating pointer ppz pointing to nsother.pz'
    ppz = PNS(nsother,'pz')
    print 'ppz = %r'% ppz
    print 'ppz.value = %r'% ppz.value
    print 'ppz.value.value = %r'% ppz.value.value
    print 'ppz.v.v= %r'% ppz.v.v
   
    print '\nDemo read-only pointer to pi in namespace math (the module) ...'
    import math
    ppi = PNS(math,'pi', 'r') # read only
    print 'math = %r' % math
    print 'ppi = %r' % ppi
    print 'ppi.v = %s' % ppi.v

    print '\nAttempting to set math.pi via ppi.v=3.14 (will work via math.pi, BTW !)'
    try: ppi.v = 3.14
    except Exception, e: print '%s: %s'% (e.__class__.__name__,e)
    else: print 'ppi.v set ok: %r' % ppi.v

if __name__ == '__main__':
    test()
========================================================================

Result of run:

[10:03] C:\pywk\clp>pns.py
Before change:
ns.x='x value', ns.y='y value'
Making pointer py point to ns.y ...
ptr py=<PNS ptr to 'y' of <__main__.Namespace object at 0x007F9EC0>>
Calling change(ns.x, py) ...
After change:
ns.x='x value', ns.y='new y'
Before change1/change2:
ns.x='x value', ns.y='new y'
After calling change1(ns.x, py):
ns.x='x value', ns.y='deep change in y'

New pointer to non-existent ns.z:
<PNS ptr to 'z' of <__main__.Namespace object at 0x007F9EC0>>
Trying to access as yet nonexistent ns.z ...
AttributeError: 'Namespace' object has no attribute 'z'
Passing pz to change(ns.x, pz)...
Result: ns.x='x value', ns.z='new y'

Before deleting ns.y via py.v:
ns.y='deep change in y', py.v='deep change in y'

Deleting ns.y by del py.value ...
Trying to access ns.y ...
AttributeError: 'Namespace' object has no attribute 'y'

Creating nsother name space to put pz in as a value ...
<__main__.AnotherNS object at 0x007F92C0>
Creating pointer ppz pointing to nsother.pz
ppz = <PNS ptr to 'pz' of <__main__.AnotherNS object at 0x007F92C0>>
ppz.value = <PNS ptr to 'z' of <__main__.Namespace object at 0x007F9EC0>>
ppz.value.value = 'new y'
ppz.v.v= 'new y'

Demo read-only pointer to pi in namespace math (the module) ...
math = <module 'math' (built-in)>
ppi = <PNS ptr to 'pi' of <module 'math' (built-in)>>
ppi.v = 3.14159265359

Attempting to set math.pi via ppi.v=3.14 (will work via math.pi, BTW !)
PNSError: Value write prohibited for <PNS ptr to 'pi' of <module 'math' (built-in)>>

[10:03] C:\pywk\clp>

>
>Thanks for these thoughts and the time it took to post them, they really 
>made me think! (I mean that in a good way, of course ;) )
>
You're welcome. Hope this adds another useful angle.

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From bostic at sleepycat.com  Mon Jul 14 13:58:28 2003
From: bostic at sleepycat.com (Keith Bostic)
Date: 14 Jul 2003 10:58:28 -0700
Subject: Business model for Open Source - advice wanted
References: <246a4e07.0307100613.fc2fc50@posting.google.com> <bejvsd$3mh$1@slb4.atl.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <adecb6f.0307140526.77bae52d@posting.google.com>

Terence Way <terry at wayforward.net> wrote in message news:<bejvsd$3mh$1 at slb4.atl.
mindspring.net>...
> Two companies that make money spring to mind:
> 1. sleepycat software (they support Berkeley DB); and
> 2. the MySQL folks (they support, um, MySQL)
>
> They have different licenses, MySQL being dual licensed:
> GPL and proprietary, while sleepycat is custom and
> OSI-compatible.

A minor clarification -- Sleepycat Software also does dual 
licensing.  The public Berkeley DB releases have a BSD-style,     
OSI-compatible license, but we also release under a pretty
standard, proprietary license.
 
Regards,
--keith
 
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Keith Bostic                          bostic at sleepycat.com
Sleepycat Software Inc.         keithbosticim (ymsgid)
118 Tower Rd.                     +1-781-259-3139
Lincoln, MA 01773               http://www.sleepycat.com



From jeremy at alum.mit.edu  Fri Jul 18 17:09:15 2003
From: jeremy at alum.mit.edu (Jeremy Hylton)
Date: 18 Jul 2003 17:09:15 -0400
Subject: Python 2.3 release candidate 1
Message-ID: <1058562554.22833.38.camel@slothrop.zope.com>

I am very happy to announce the release of Python 2.3 release candidate
1.  The python-dev crew has fixed almost 50 bugs since the beta release
last month.  You can find the downloads at the usual place:
http://www.python.org/2.3/

All major reported bugs have been fixed for this release.  If we do not
discover any major bugs in the next week, we will re-release this code
as Python 2.3 final.  We encourage potential users of Python 2.3 to try
the release candidate with their programs and report any bugs as soon as
possible.

To report a new bug, use the SourceForge bug tracker
http://sourceforge.net/bugs/?func=addbug&group_id=5470

This release of Python does not have any big changes, but it does
have many small changes that improve the libraries, fix bugs, and
increase stability.  According to some simple benchmarks, Python 2.3
is 25-30% faster than Python 2.2.3.  There are about 15 new or
significantly revised standard library modules, and a few new
builtins.

Andrew Kuchling's What's New in Python 2.3 describes the most visible
changes since Python 2.2 in more detail:
http://www.python.org/doc/2.3c1/whatsnew/

Have fun!
-- Jeremy Hylton <http://www.python.org/~jeremy/>






From troy at gci.net  Tue Jul 29 16:54:32 2003
From: troy at gci.net (Troy Melhase)
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 12:54:32 -0800
Subject: Factories in Python
References: <73b00f0c.0307290721.7a19e3d0@posting.google.com> <bg6e50$l3nst$1@ID-139865.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <vidno8oghj8tb0@corp.supernews.com>

Dave Kuhlman wrote:
> I'd be interested in other reasons for using factories.

My most frequent reason for using factories is to insulate client code from
refering directly to a class name.  I find I do this most often when I have
code that's likely to change soon or change frequently.  This approach
allows me to leave client code unchanged although the actual class names
and implementations may vary greatly.

Consider:

class MightBeWhatIWant:
    pass

class HelperForThat:
    pass

def build():
    return MightBeWhatIWant()

As the problem is revealed thru elbow grease, this might change:

class ThisIsWhatIReallyNeeded:
    pass

class SomethingIMissedEarlier:
    pass

def build():
    return ThisIsWhatIReallyNeeded()

Granted, these aren't factories in the strictest GoF sense, but I think the
intent is clear.

troy



From Kepes.Krisztian at peto.hu  Fri Jul 25 04:25:30 2003
From: Kepes.Krisztian at peto.hu (Krisztian Kepes)
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 10:25:30 +0200
Subject: The protection of resources
Message-ID: <sf2105a6.004@testmail.peto.hu>

Hi !

In this time I use the Lock() for thread synchronization, and resource

protection.

But in the new project I must reorganize this thing.
The program must be run in lin/win, so I cannot use the winapi.

I need to protect resources from concurrent r/w.
Possible that the modules are not threads but are tasks.

In the Delphi and WinAPI I use the Mutex, that is a simple, opsystem 
protected thing to signaling.
It is a simple signal (1/0).

I search for this in python, but I see only mutex with "procedure
queue".
I cannot see a signal like thing.
I want to only signaling: the resource are taken or not.
I don't want to wait for the non used state (not block !).

So these my questions:
- 1. How to use the py mutex object ? Please send an example to me !
- 2. Have the py an signal object ? (platform !!!)
- 3. Is any solution is a file locking.  Have the py a possibility of
exclusive 
file opening ?


Thx:
 KK





From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Wed Jul  9 18:17:46 2003
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 17:17:46 -0500
Subject: Deleting specific characters from a string
In-Reply-To: <3F0C8AC3.5010304@dadsetan.com> (Behrang Dadsetan's message of
 "Wed, 09 Jul 2003 23:36:03 +0200")
References: <begfb3$7j6$1@online.de> <3F0C851C.4000500@livinglogic.de>
	<3F0C8AC3.5010304@dadsetan.com>
Message-ID: <m2he5vwdit.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

>>>>> "Behrang" == Behrang Dadsetan <ben at dadsetan.com> writes:

    Behrang> is going to finally be what I am going to use.  I not
    Behrang> feel lambdas are so readable, unless one has serious
    Behrang> experience in using them and python in general. I feel it
    Behrang> is acceptable to add a named method that documents with
    Behrang> its name what it is doing there.

If you want to go the functional programing route, you can generalize
your function somewhat using a callable class:

class remove_char:
    def __init__(self,remove):
        self.remove = dict([ (c,1) for c in remove])
        
    def __call__(self,c):
        return not self.remove.has_key(c)

print filter(remove_char('on'), 'John Hunter')

Cheers,
Jh Huter




From mis6 at pitt.edu  Mon Jul 21 08:51:16 2003
From: mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato)
Date: 21 Jul 2003 05:51:16 -0700
Subject: classes
References: <pan.2003.07.19.20.46.33.864915@bogus.domain.org> <ad052e5c.0307191826.144ad2a5@posting.google.com> <pan.2003.07.20.12.30.11.157694@bogus.domain.org> <mailman.1058723911.12956.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <2259b0e2.0307210451.203db2ef@posting.google.com>

Steven Taschuk <staschuk at telusplanet.net> wrote in message news:<mailman.1058723911.12956.python-list at python.org>...
> For the particular problem you're interested in -- singletons --
> here are a few approaches:
> 
> First, use __new__ trickery:
> 
>     _the_instance = None
>     class MySingleton(object):
>         def __new__(self):
>             global _the_instance
>             if _the_instance is None:
>                 _the_instance = object.__new__(self)
>             return _the_instance

Why are you using a global here and not something like


    class MySingleton(object):
        _the_instance = None
        def __new__(cls):
            if cls._the_instance is None:
                cls._the_instance = object.__new__(self)
            return cls._the_instance

?

> Example use:
> 
>     >>> x = MySingleton()
>     >>> y = MySingleton()
>     >>> x is y  # same object!
>     True
> 
> In this approach, users create instances of MySingleton as they
> would for any other class (rather than by calling a getInstance
> classmethod) -- that action just happens to return the same object
> always.
> 
> One gotcha with this approach can be observed by adding
> 
>     def __init__(self):
>         print 'running __init__ on instance %s' % id(self)
> 
> Then we see
> 
>     >>> x = MySingleton()
>  running __init__ on instance 1075795852
>     >>> y = MySingleton()
>  running __init__ on instance 1075795852
>     >>> x is y
>     True
> 
> As shown, each "instantiation" runs __init__ on the single
> instance again.  If you have initialization which should occur
> only when the single instance is actually created:
> 
>     _the_instance = None
>     class MySingleton(object):
>         def __new__(self):
>             global _the_instance
>             if _the_instance is None:
>                 _the_instance = object.__new__(self)
>                 _the_instance._my_init()
>             return _the_instance
>         def _my_init(self):
>             pass  # one-time initialization here
> 
> (Another possible issue with this approach arises when subclassing
> MySingleton.  Details left as an exercise.)
> 
> Second approach: Use a metaclass.  See
>     <http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/102187>


Unfortunately, I see that this recipe is not very recommendable. I have
just submitted a fix which seems to work:

class Singleton(type):
    def __init__(cls,name,bases,dic):
        super(Singleton,cls).__init__(name,bases,dic)
        cls.instance=None
    def __call__(cls,*args,**kw):
        if cls.instance is None:
            cls.instance=super(Singleton,cls).__call__(*args,**kw)
        return cls.instance

Here is how it works under inheritance and avoids the problem with
calling __init__ twice:

class C:
    __metaclass__=Singleton
    def __init__(self):
        print "C: initializing ",self

class D(C):
    def __init__(self):
        print "D: initializing ",self

c1=C() # => C: initializing  <__main__.C object at 0x4031c0ac>
c2=C() # no output
d=D() # D: initializing  <__main__.D object at 0x4031c02c>
print c1 is c2 # => yes

 
> Third: forget about singletons and use a Borg.  See
>     <http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/66531>
> (With Borgs, multiple instances may exist, but they share state.)
> 
> Fourth: rethink the idea that a database connection should be a
> singleton.  See
>     <http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?SingletonsAreEvil>
> and linked pages for discussion on the merits of singletons.


HTH,
                Michele



From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Tue Jul  1 11:13:32 2003
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 10:13:32 -0500
Subject: Partition names with Python
In-Reply-To: <slrnbg2q16.pm7.pipen@beast.tu.kielce.pl> ("Artur M. Piwko"'s
 message of "Tue, 1 Jul 2003 10:53:27 +0000 (UTC)")
References: <1056984252.3f004cbc6abd6@mail.uzem.itu.edu.tr>
	<mailman.1056988192.18351.python-list@python.org>
	<bdqsjr$tjb$0@216.39.172.122>
	<mailman.1057047963.15568.python-list@python.org>
	<slrnbg2q16.pm7.pipen@beast.tu.kielce.pl>
Message-ID: <m2n0fy46w3.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

>>>>> "Artur" == Artur M Piwko <pipen at beast_tu_kielce.pl> writes:

    Artur> And /proc/partitions.

Best yet!

import os
fh = file('/proc/partitions')

fh.readline() # eat the header
fh.readline() # eat the blank line

partitions = [line.split()[-1] for line in fh.readlines()]
print partitions




From mcherm at mcherm.com  Wed Jul  9 08:48:25 2003
From: mcherm at mcherm.com (Michael Chermside)
Date: Wed,  9 Jul 2003 05:48:25 -0700
Subject: Python Global Constant
Message-ID: <1057754905.3f0c0f19cf868@mcherm.com>

Krisztian Kepes wrote:
> How [do] I create an global constant in [a] module [that] is 
> accessable in from other modules ?

Christoph Becker-Freyseng replies:
> What about using __builtins__ wouldn't make this the constant 
> really global?

While adding it to __builtins__ *would* work like you're thinking,
it's not necessary, or appropriate. Python provides lots of ways
for "power users" to "get under the covers" and change things.
This is useful in those situations where you really need it (some
other languages provide NO way to get at fundamental language
features), but such deep black magic should be reserved for those
cases when you really need it. Modifying __builtins__ definitely
falls into such a category: if you aren't sure whether you need
to do it, then you don't. If you *think* you need to do it, then
you shouldn't. If you understand what's going on so well that you
are *certain* that you *must* modify it to achieve what you want...
well, go ahead!

In this case, the OP (original poster) was asking about a very
common and straightforward situation: module level constants that
need to be visible from other modules. There is a standard and
straightforward way to create these: just assign a value to the
variable in your module, then use it from other modules by
importing the module. Spell the variable with ALL_CAPS to clearly
mark that it is intended to be a constant and others shouldn't
modify it. You'll need to watch out for cyclic import dependencies,
but other than that this is a really easy solution.

Now, some might complain that the variable isn't "constant"...
spelling it with all caps tells others that they SHOULDN'T modify
it, but doesn't PREVENT them from doing so. Really, that's a lot
like the issue with __builtins__ that I mentioned above. It's very
Pythonic to have a clear *indication* that something shouldn't be
messed with (being in all caps or marking with double underscore),
but not to *enforce* it -- if someone wants to change it they do
so at their own risk. However, if you REALLY wanted to keep them
from changing the "constant" (perhaps it controls the security
level for running untrusted code) there are ways to do so -- check
out the Python Cookbook for some examples.

-- Michael Chermside


-------------------------------------------------
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From tnienstedt at telesyn.com  Thu Jul 24 11:20:05 2003
From: tnienstedt at telesyn.com (Ted Nienstedt)
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 11:20:05 -0400
Subject: ImportError: /usr/lib/python2.2/site-packages/libusermodule.so: undefined symbol: PyUnicodeUCS4_AsUTF8String
Message-ID: <002801c351f7$0f9e2420$2e1210ac@telesyn.corp>

I upgraded python to 2.2.3 on Linux Redhat 9 and now some linux services
don't work .

For example, attempting to launch 'Users and Groups' or running
/usr/bin/redhat-config-users results in: 
Traceback (most recent call last): 
File "/usr/share/redhat-config-users/redhat-config-users.py", line 25 in
? 
import libuser 
ImportError: /usr/lib/python2.2/site-packages/libusermodule.so:
undefined symbol: PyUnicodeUCS4_AsUTF8String
 
I used the rpm files on http://www.python.org/2.2.3/rpms.html
I installed tkinter and python-tools also.
I also,  probably foolishly, used the -replacefiles option of the rpm
command.
What did I do wrong?  How do I recover?
 
Thanks,
Ted Nienstedt
Telesyn
919-645-4915
tnienstedt at telesyn.com
 
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From tjreedy at udel.edu  Thu Jul 31 20:51:16 2003
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 20:51:16 -0400
Subject: Python speed vs csharp
References: <rkdc7poiachh.1x4jtxjzaf3zo.dlg@40tude.net> <qnkn0eutndk.fsf@arbutus.physics.mcmaster.ca>
Message-ID: <tYydnShy-9ExJLSiU-KYgw@comcast.com>

"David M. Cooke" <cookedm+news at physics.mcmaster.ca> wrote in message
news:qnkn0eutndk.fsf at arbutus.physics.mcmaster.ca...
> At some point, Mike <mike at nospam.com> wrote:
> > Here's the chunk of code that I'm spending most of my time
executing:
> >
> > # Rational approximation for erfc(x) (Abramowitz & Stegun, Sec.
7.1.26)
> > # Fifth order approximation. |error| <= 1.5e-7 for all x
> > #
> > def erfc( x ):
> >    p  =  0.3275911
> >    a1 =  0.254829592
> >    a2 = -0.284496736
> >    a3 =  1.421413741
> >    a4 = -1.453152027
> >    a5 =  1.061405429
> >
> >    t = 1.0 / (1.0 + p*float(x))
> >    erfcx = ( (a1 + (a2 + (a3 +
> >              (a4 + a5*t)*t)*t)*t)*t ) * math.exp(-(x**2))
> >    return erfcx

Does inlining the constants give any speedup?  or is local lookup so
fast that it does not matter?

TJR





From h.b.furuseth at usit.uio.no  Fri Jul 18 09:15:29 2003
From: h.b.furuseth at usit.uio.no (Hallvard B Furuseth (nospam nospam))
Date: 18 Jul 2003 15:15:29 +0200
Subject: How to get CGI request-URL
References: <HBF.20030704ty6d@bombur.uio.no> <HBF.20030705h0cj@bombur.uio.no> <3f070d44$0$49099$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <HBF.20030718qerc@bombur.uio.no>

Irmen de Jong wrote:

> Glad to be of assistance, but you didn't tell us what the
> actual solution to your problem was...

'https://' + os.environ['SERVER_NAME'] + os.environ['REQUEST_URI']

-- 
Hallvard



From alanmk at hotmail.com  Wed Jul 16 11:08:00 2003
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 16:08:00 +0100
Subject: Python Quiz
References: <84fc4588.0307152253.20858619@posting.google.com> <Xns93BA6E5A0FA08duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1> <bf3o6k$q00$1@panix2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <3F156A50.EA9242AF@hotmail.com>

Duncan Booth :

>> On question 8, I'm not aware that Python borrowed anything from Java.

Aahz:

> Lib/threading.py, line 1

Other areas where Java has "had an influence" on python.

1. Logging. Isn't Vijay Sanip's logging package, derived from  pretty
much a copy of Java's log4j? Comment from "Lib/logging/__init__.py":
"Logging package for Python. Based on PEP 282 and comments thereto in
comp.lang.python, and influenced by Apache's log4j system."

http://www.red-dove.com/python_logging.html

2. Weak References. Influenced by Java, as well as other systems.

http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0205.html

3. Unittest module. Comment from the lib\unittest.py "Python unit
testing framework, based on Erich Gamma's JUnit and Kent Beck's
Smalltalk testing framework." Junit being the javanese unit test
framework of choice.

Python and Java are such a natural fit, I foresee that there will be
even more cross-fertilisation between the two in the future.

So I'm hoping anyway.

-- 
alan kennedy
-----------------------------------------------------
check http headers here: http://xhaus.com/headers
email alan:              http://xhaus.com/mailto/alan



From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Thu Jul 31 11:10:01 2003
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 11:10:01 -0400
Subject: Newbie: implementing lowlevel protocol over socket int32 data handling
References: <bgbaj5$kgv$2@news4.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>
Message-ID: <viicacikrp1vde@news.supernews.com>

"Bram" <b.neijt at ai.rug.nl> wrote in message
news:bgbaj5$kgv$2 at news4.tilbu1.nb.home.nl...
> Hi,
> Summ: "What is the best way to handle int8,16 and 32 data in python?"
>
> Im currently working on a class to implement the gui protocol of
> mldonkey. (http://mldonkey.lemmster.de/wiki/index.php/GuiProtocol)
> However this requires to send int32 and int16 and even int8 integers.
>
> To create data I'm using the work-around of converting everything to hex
> values, and then converting the hex values to a data string which I put
> on the socket (e.g. "\x00\xF0").
> I could do the same on the recieving end: chop it up in bytes and
> convert them to numbers (combining the hi and lo bytes of the int16 with
> some calculations)
>
> However, there must be a better way of doing this.
> Can anyone help me on this problem?

I took a quick look at the Wiki describing the protocol. For
something like this, I'd expect that interoperability would be
an issue, so the actual data format in the packets would be
part of the protocol specification.

That being the case, look at the struct module. I think it does
exactly what you need.

John Roth
>
> Bram
>
>
>





From g2h5dqi002 at sneakemail.com  Wed Jul  9 23:49:22 2003
From: g2h5dqi002 at sneakemail.com (Greg Ewing (using news.cis.dfn.de))
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 15:49:22 +1200
Subject: format discs.
In-Reply-To: <pan.2003.07.09.14.36.59.870178@net.hr>
References: <pan.2003.07.09.08.22.10.853337.9435@hotmail.com> <pan.2003.07.09.12.19.17.544904@net.hr> <mailman.1057755674.1585.python-list@python.org> <pan.2003.07.09.14.36.59.870178@net.hr>
Message-ID: <beim2p$5iq5c$1@ID-169208.news.dfncis.de>

Taka wrote:
> Yes, but since file partitions are usualy bigger than your physical RAM,
> you cannot do
> 
> import string
> partition.write (string.zfill('0', partition.getsize('/dev/hda10')-1)

Given that, it would have been advisable to have used xrange instead
of range. :-)

All he needs then is a Python implementation of mkfs and he's done...

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg




From hanzspam at yahoo.com.au  Sat Jul 26 05:58:18 2003
From: hanzspam at yahoo.com.au (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Hannu_Kankaanp=E4=E4?=)
Date: 26 Jul 2003 02:58:18 -0700
Subject: I am so impressed
References: <3f207dcc$0$137$1b62eedf@news.wanadoo.nl>
Message-ID: <840592e1.0307260158.77b9c471@posting.google.com>

"Guyon Mor?e" <gumuz*NOSP at M*looze.net> wrote in message news:<3f207dcc$0$137$1b62eedf at news.wanadoo.nl>...
> I've been looking for a nice python editor for a while. I was using a great
> general purpose editor called EditPlus. It did the job pretty good....
> 
> I've now downloaded Eclipse with the TruStudio plug-ins from www.xored.com
> and it's great!
> 
> i had to share that with you

Thanks for sharing, it's a nice editor. I've got few complaints though,
do you know how to fix these:

- I can't comment / uncomment multiple lines
- I have to press backspace 4 times to erase one level of indentation.
  In IDLE I could do it with one backspace press.

Those two are pretty constant annoyances. Otherwise I'd love to use it.



From ulope at gmx.de  Sun Jul 20 20:57:07 2003
From: ulope at gmx.de (Ulrich Petri)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 02:57:07 +0200
Subject: Possible use of Python for a voting machine demo project -- your feedback requested
References: <P9DSa.111436$Io.9552373@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <bff6jb$e8goe$1@ID-67890.news.uni-berlin.de> <7xk7acai97.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <bffci8$dhir7$1@ID-67890.news.uni-berlin.de> <7x7k6cu2rx.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <bffdp4$dsh2n$1@ID-67890.news.uni-berlin.de>

"Paul Rubin" <http://phr.cx at NOSPAM.invalid> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:7x7k6cu2rx.fsf at ruckus.brouhaha.com...
> "Ulrich Petri" <ulope at gmx.de> writes:
> > Here in germany we also have elections where more than one thing is
voted
> > upon but if that is the case we have a seperate ballot for each of those
> > descisions and they all go into different "boxes" and are counted by
> > different people.
>
> What is a typical number of such boxes?
>
> In a US election, the number of "boxes" that would be needed is
> usually more than 20 and can be as many as 50.  Not just politicians
> but also judges, sheriffs, and ballot questions like whether to build
> a new school in a given location, all get voted on.
>
> Do you really want to fill out 50 separate pieces of paper in a voting
> booth, and then make sure to deposit each one in its own correct
> separate box?

wow i wasn't aware that it is that much...
Here the ballots are usually printed on colored paper so you can tell which
box is for what by the color. The *maximum* of different things voted on in
a single election is about 5 here...

So finally i see your problem....

Ciao Ulrich





From stephen at theboulets.net  Tue Jul 29 22:17:35 2003
From: stephen at theboulets.net (Stephen Boulet)
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 21:17:35 -0500
Subject: Upgrading python
Message-ID: <ItycnZqbMc9St7qiXTWc-w@speakeasy.net>

When I upgrade from 2.2.3 to 2.3 on windows, do I first uninstall 2.2.3?

-- Stephen




From bvelkur at yahoo.com  Fri Jul 11 16:30:55 2003
From: bvelkur at yahoo.com (0wl)
Date: 11 Jul 2003 13:30:55 -0700
Subject: Using  xml.xpath question.
References: <de5c7cc0.0307101347.2c707bf8@posting.google.com> <23891c90.0307110057.bbe91e3@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <de5c7cc0.0307111230.7d83588@posting.google.com>

Works like a charm!!!!! 

My Ignorance shines bright.... :-).

Anywhere I can read about this stuff..

Thanks
--Bipin.

paul at boddie.net (Paul Boddie) wrote in message news:<23891c90.0307110057.bbe91e3 at posting.google.com>...
> bvelkur at yahoo.com (0wl) wrote in message news:<de5c7cc0.0307101347.2c707bf8 at posting.google.com>...
> > Hi,
> > 
> > I am trying to get the value of child from  
> > 
> > xmlstr = """<p:root xmlns:p="http://tempuri.org/string"><p:child
> > DataType="String">Hellpppp</p:child></p:root>"""
> > 
> > using 
> > doc=parseString(xmlstr)
> > nodeList = xml.xpath.Evaluate("/p:root/p:child/text()", doc)
> >
> > and am getting the following exception:
> > 
> > xml.xpath.RuntimeException: Undefined namespace prefix: "p".
> 
> The problem is that the XPath query engine doesn't know what the
> prefix "p" is, and it won't automatically deduce it from your XML
> document. In other words, the prefixes used in your query are
> effectively independent from those used in your document, although
> this does give you the luxury of changing either your query or your
> document without having to go through the other adjusting the prefixes
> to match.
> 
> Try this:
> 
> >>> c = xml.xpath.Context.Context(doc)
> >>> c.setNamespaces({"p" : "http://tempuri.org/string"})
> 
> This makes a context and then adds the definition of the prefix for
> the XPath query engine. I think xml.xpath.CreateContext(doc) may be
> more appropriate, but I always use the above style. Also, you could
> probably specify the prefix/namespace definitions in the Context
> constructor, but this is just as easy.
> 
> >>> e = xml.xpath.Compile("/p:root/p:child/text()")
> 
> I compile the expression in order to allow the context to be used. We
> need a context because there apparently isn't any way of specifying
> the prefix/namespace definitions directly in an Evaluate call.
> Therefore, we have to set up a context first to contain those
> definitions.
> 
> >>> e.evaluate(c)
> [<DOM Text node "Hellpppp">]
> 
> Yes, it works! ;-)
> 
> Paul



From just at xs4all.nl  Tue Jul  8 06:07:48 2003
From: just at xs4all.nl (Just van Rossum)
Date: Tue,  8 Jul 2003 12:07:48 +0200
Subject: path module
In-Reply-To: <1057655734.3738.7.camel@lothlorien>
Message-ID: <r01050400-1026-0CFC2A59B12C11D7A953003065D5E7E4@[10.0.0.23]>

Ian Bicking wrote:

> On Tue, 2003-07-08 at 03:17, Just wrote:
> > I would greatly appreaciate such a module in the std library, but
> > while Jason's module has some very cool features, to my taste it
> > goes a bit too far with overloading operators. I really don't like
> > overloading a/b to mean os.path.join(a, b) and I don't think the
> > default iterator should do a listdir (although list(mypath) is
> > indeed cute). If it were toned down a bit in this area I think we
> > may be able to make a good case for including it in the std library.
> 
> I've never wanted to iterate over a string, and find that an annoying
> feature in Python (I'd *much* rather get an exception),

It's basically a side effect of having a __getitem__ that takes
integers.

> so covering
> up the previous string behavior doesn't seem a big deal to me. 

It's not just that, but iterating over a path could _also_ mean to
iterate over the path elements, so it's not obvious it should iterate
over the directory contents. Also, what if path points to a file?

> But I
> can see why iterating over a path may be a little too magic.  But
> paths are also containers (at least if they point to a directory), so
> iterating over them seems only natural.  I could see something like
> mypath.dir() being reasonable alternative (mypath.list() also, but
> that looks funny to me because "list" is special to my eye).

I'd say path.listdir() is most natural.

> I do like the /, though.  mypath.joinpath(filename) is rather
> long-winded (since he wisely avoids reusing the join method).  / has
> no meaning for strings, so it's not really overloading the operator,
> merely adding it in a specific context. 

It'll confuse the hell out of people who expect / to mean "divide" ;-)

> Several operators are reused
> for different meanings, % in particular comes to mind, this doesn't
> seem that bad.  I like the way it looks and feels.  It feels better
> to me than using + for string concatenation ;) -- maybe because
> division is not all that common an operation anyway.

I tend to think that this whole discussion shows that _maybe_ it's not
such a good idea to subclass str/unicode after all. (Aside: path.py
taught me about the existence of os.path.supports_unicode_filenames in
2.3, but at least on my platform (OSX) it has the wrong value. I opened
a bug, #767645.)

Some string methods are handy on paths, such as .endswith(), while
others are not, like .upper() or .splitlines(). Other string method
names or operators would make sense for paths, but -- as you say -- are
out of the question since their meaning would be quite different, eg.
.join() and +.

I find overloading / unneccesary, since it's not like you'll have to
write

  a.join(b).join(c).join(d)

but rather

  a.join(b, c, d)

which I don't think is all that bad.

Btw. long ago (2001, before Jason's path module) I posted a balloon to
python-dev about this subject:
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2001-August/016663.html

There was hardly any response, and Guido said we wasn't too enthusiastic
about the idea, so we might have to work hard to pull this off ;-).

Also, with unicode, Guido's suggestion that any object that implements
__str__ can be used with open() seems to be no longer true. At least I
can't get it to work.

Just




From bokr at oz.net  Sun Jul  6 17:28:09 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 6 Jul 2003 21:28:09 GMT
Subject: Search for mapping solution
References: <be9t66$2otne$1@ID-47851.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <bea499$h2v$0@216.39.172.122>

On Sun, 06 Jul 2003 21:17:36 +0200, Markus Joschko <jocsch at phreaker.net> wrote:

>Hi,
>stated in a post befor, I'm a java programmer, fascinated about the elegant
>way python solves iterations. Maybe you can show me a solution how to map
>the following
>
>I have a List:
>
>Name - Number - Costs
>
>lines = [['fred','333','0,10'],['sam','444','1'],['fred','333','0,50']]

>
>Now I want to have it in a dictionary(name,costs)  Should look like
>{'fred':'0,60' , 'sam':'1'}
Should same-name costs just be added, and the number just be ignored?
Assuming so, do you actually want the costs in the final dict to be represented
as localized strings, or should they be floating point numbers -- or, should they
be fixed point in effect?
>
>What's an elegant way to do it? I can use a lot of loops, but I assume, that
>there is a better way of doing so.
>
If the names were all different, it would be a snap

 >>> lines = [['fred','333','0,10'],['sam','444','1'],['fred','333','0,50']]
 >>> d = dict([(name,cost) for name,num,cost in lines])
 >>> d
 {'sam': '1', 'fred': '0,50'}

but, your example seems to have further requirements, so maybe:

====< jocsch.py >==============================================
lines = [['fred','333','0,10'],['sam','444','1'],['fred','333','0,50']]

# might want to use locale-sensitive fixed point for currency, but we'll fake it here ;-)
def str2num(s): return ',' in s and int(s.replace(',','')) or 100*int(s) # units of 0,01
def num2str(n): h,u = divmod(abs(n),100); s='-'[:n<0]; return u and '%s%d,%02d'%(s,h,u) or '%s%d'%(s,h)

d={}
for name,num,cost in lines:
    cost = str2num(cost)                            # units of 0,01
    d[name] = d.get(name, 0) + cost                 # accumulate same-name costs in integral units
for name in d.keys(): d[name] = num2str(d[name])    # mixed literal string syntax again

print lines
print d
===============================================================
Result:

[14:27] C:\pywk\clp>jocsch.py
[['fred', '333', '0,10'], ['sam', '444', '1'], ['fred', '333', '0,50']]
{'sam': '1', 'fred': '0,60'}

A uniform format (i.e., '1,00' instead of '1') would have simplified conversions a little ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From max at cNOvSisiPonAtecMh.com  Wed Jul 23 11:42:57 2003
From: max at cNOvSisiPonAtecMh.com (Max Khesin)
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 15:42:57 GMT
Subject: htaccess & urllib
Message-ID: <52yTa.21249$On.2682411@twister.nyc.rr.com>

Is there a way to access an htaccess-protected directory with urllib,
password being known?
thanks,
max
--
========================================
Max Khesin, software developer -
max at cNvOiSsPiAoMntech.com
[check out our image compression software at www.cvisiontech.com, JBIG2-PDF
compression @
www.cvisiontech.com/cvistapdf.html]






From luke at stclair.homelinux.net  Fri Jul 25 11:26:49 2003
From: luke at stclair.homelinux.net (Luke StClair)
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 15:26:49 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Downloading Python files
Message-ID: <slrnbi2j1n.ra.luke@stclair.homelinux.net>

Only marginally belonging in this newsgroup... but oh well.

I've just started writing in python, and I want to make the files
available on the web.  So I did the standard <a
href="mypath/myfile.py"> and not surprisingly, it displays like a
webpage, but just the code.  If I gzip it, and then link to the new
file, it will download, but its so small I don't want it zipped.  
How can I make this into a downloadable
file SIMPLY?  The other thread seems a bit complicated...

Thanks



-- 
Luke St.Clair        |  "Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you
clairst at uiuc.edu     |  will find; knock and the door will be opened
---------------------|  to you." - Matthew 7:7
---
Posted via news://freenews.netfront.net
Complaints to news at netfront.net



From staschuk at telusplanet.net  Sat Jul  5 17:44:02 2003
From: staschuk at telusplanet.net (Steven Taschuk)
Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2003 15:44:02 -0600
Subject: 'self' disappearing
In-Reply-To: <oprrsnmr1wjjo9mx@news.chello.at>; from daniel.nouri@con-fuse.org on Fri, Jul 04, 2003 at 04:19:29PM +0000
References: <oprrsnmr1wjjo9mx@news.chello.at>
Message-ID: <20030705154402.A916@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>

Quoth Daniel Nouri:
> The idea of my simple piece of code is to start from a given module and 
> wrap all functions and methods in that module and submodules. FunWrapper is 
> the class that I use for wrapping.
  [...]
> It appears that 'instance.method()' is not the same as 
> 'klass.method(instance)' in this case. But why? And how do I deal with 
> that?

Your function wrapper implements only the __call__ protocol; you
also need to handle the descriptor protocol, which is used to
implement the bound/unbound method business.  For example:

    class FunWrapper(object):
        def __init__(self, fun):
            self.fun = fun
        def __call__(self, *args, **kwds):
            print 'Calling', self.fun.__name__
            self.fun(*args, **kwds)
        def __get__(self, *args):
            print 'Getting', self.fun.__name__
            return FunWrapper(self.fun.__get__(*args))

    class Foo(object):
        def bar(*args):
            print 'called with args', args
        bar = FunWrapper(bar)

    foo = Foo()
    foo.bar('a', 'b', 'c')

You might find Raymond Hettinger's writeup of descriptors useful
to understand what's going on here:
    <http://users.rcn.com/python/download/Descriptor.htm>

-- 
Steven Taschuk                             staschuk at telusplanet.net
"I may be wrong but I'm positive."  -- _Friday_, Robert A. Heinlein




From eed132 at psu.edu  Tue Jul 15 00:46:15 2003
From: eed132 at psu.edu (Evan)
Date: 14 Jul 2003 21:46:15 -0700
Subject: % operator -- did Python or C++/boost come first?
References: <bev3p6$h4l$1@panix2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <3f25c666.0307142046.2936c1b3@posting.google.com>

roy at panix.com (Roy Smith) wrote in message news:<bev3p6$h4l$1 at panix2.panix.com>...
> Up until recently, Python was the only language I'd ever seen that
> used the % operator for string replacement.  Today, I was perusing the
> C++ Boost libraries, and discoverd that boost::format uses a very
> similar syntax.  The following lines print the same thing in Python
> and C++, respectively.
> 
> print "int->%i, string->%s" % (42, "wugga, wugga")
> cout << boost::format ("int->%i, string->%s\n") % 42 % "wugga, wugga";
> 
> The question is, which came first?  Did boost adapt the Python syntax,
> or the other way around, or did they both evolve in parallel?  I'm not
> talking about the use of % in the C/printf style format specifier, but
> the use of % as an operator to connect the format specifier with the
> data to be formatted.

If you haven't already, I reccomend reading the design rationale for
any extensions you're interested in (and that have it of course). The
one for format is at http://boost.org/libs/format/doc/choices.html.
Python's use of the same syntax is mentioned, along with many other
reasons for the choice of the operator (and many more for why << is a
bad choice). So it would appear that Python came first.



From akineko at pacbell.net  Mon Jul  7 20:14:59 2003
From: akineko at pacbell.net (Aki Niimura)
Date: 7 Jul 2003 17:14:59 -0700
Subject: upload file via web form (Re: to Trent Mick's posting)
References: <b714b8de.0307070921.350f841a@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <b714b8de.0307071614.3428dcb0@posting.google.com>

akineko at pacbell.net (Aki Niimura) wrote in message 
> I found the 'body' doesn't have CRLF ('\n\r') which some servers may
> consider it as a line terminator (for MIME headers).
> 
> After I inserted the following line:
> body = string.replace(body, '\n', '\r\n')
> It is working correctly.

The above is not correct. The body may have '\r\n' already (such as from
Windows). Applying string.replace() to such document produces '\r\n\n'.
You need to limit the conversion to the MIME header portion or you can fix
the code where MIME header is generated.

Sorry for messing up.

Best regards,
Aki Niimura



From sshark97 at hotmail.com  Thu Jul  3 06:18:33 2003
From: sshark97 at hotmail.com (TH Lim)
Date: 3 Jul 2003 03:18:33 -0700
Subject: How to spawn a program with redirection as it parameter
Message-ID: <ea8ebdc7.0307030218.75f3ebac@posting.google.com>

Hi,

How do I do a simple thing like  /bin/cat myfile.txt >> yourfile.txt
in unix? I tried with the script shown below but not successful. Am
doing it right? Pls. advise. thank you.

#!/usr/bin/python
import os
os.spawnl(os.P_WAIT, "/bin/cat" , "/bin/cat", "myfile.txt >>
yourfile.txt")
print "Done"



From dtolton at yahoo.com  Wed Jul 16 18:17:40 2003
From: dtolton at yahoo.com (Doug Tolton)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 22:17:40 GMT
Subject: Augmented Assignment question
References: <215bhv0bnkn13eivh0s64ic5ml8obpgfg7@4ax.com> <bf4dsq$m0o$1@panix3.panix.com>
Message-ID: <3gjbhv0qk20q2qqunpj17329atq092muon@4ax.com>

On 16 Jul 2003 16:51:38 -0400, aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) wrote:

>In article <215bhv0bnkn13eivh0s64ic5ml8obpgfg7 at 4ax.com>,
>Doug Tolton  <dtolton at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>I did some reading and it seems that an augmented assignment is
>>specifically verboten on tuples and lists.  Is there a clean way to
>>accomplish this?  
>
>Really?
>
>>>> l = []
>>>> l+=[1]
>>>> l
>[1]
>>>> l+=['foo']
>>>> l
>[1, 'foo']


I mis-spoke, lists are not included.  You cannot do augmented
assignments on tuples or multiple targets.

you can do what you typed, but you can't do.

>>> a,b = 0,0
>>> a,b += 1,1
SyntaxError: augmented assign to tuple not possible

or this:

>>> a,b = [],[]
>>> a,b += [1],[1]
SyntaxError: augmented assign to tuple not possible

That is specifically the point I was getting at.  Forgive the
technical slip of including lists in the discussion.

Doug



From carsten at gehling.dk  Thu Jul 17 04:46:45 2003
From: carsten at gehling.dk (Carsten Gehling)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 10:46:45 +0200
Subject: SV: Choosing the right framework
In-Reply-To: <pan.2003.07.16.23.32.16.64560@refuse.com>
Message-ID: <BHEFKIOIMEDGILGDACKDCEJLDMAA.carsten@gehling.dk>

> -----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
> Fra: python-list-admin at python.org
> [mailto:python-list-admin at python.org]P? vegne af David McNab
> Sendt: 17. juli 2003 01:32
> Til: python-list at python.org
> Emne: Re: Choosing the right framework

> I've been working on an HTML generation framework called 'pyWeb'. Just
> posted to this ng yesterday, calling for testers.
>
> You might like to visit http://www.freenet.org.nz/python/pyweb and have a
> look.

This I did - to be honest, I'm no real fan of frameworks where you make
objects/functions to represent html-tags. It's IMHO not a good way to
seperate logic and presentation. I'm more to the kind of templates where you
write your own html snippets and embed som sort of template markers inside.

But thanks anyway. :-)

I actually did this myself in PHP, but in a greater level of abstraction. I
needed a fast way of creating "user interfaces" (dialog forms etc.), so I
created a class hierarchy with tab-pages, layout managers, input controls,
etc. that all conformed to the general design.

The complete script for an dialog form to edit eg. an article would look
like this (mind you - it's PHP):
-------------------------------------
$dlg = new UI_TabDialog("Edit article");
$dlg->form_action = "artikel_update.php";
$dlg->add_hidden_field("id", $id);

$page = new UI_TabPage("Article");

$layout = new UI_Layout_row(array(
    array(100),
    array(100),
    array(100),
    array(50, 50),
    array(100)
));

$c = new UI_Control_static("Edit your article and click on "Save");
$layout->add_control($c);

$c = new UI_Control_input("title", "Header", "");
$layout->add_control($c);

$c = new UI_Control_textarea("body", "Main article text", "", 190);
$layout->add_control($c);

$c = new UI_Control_date("releasedate", "Release the article on",
date("Y-m-d"));
$layout->add_control($c);

$c = new UI_Control_date("expiredate", "Expire the article on",
date("Y-m-d"));
$layout->add_control($c);

$c = new UI_Control_image("image_id", "Attach image to article", "");
$c->url_template = IMAGE_UPLOAD_PATH . "image_%d.jpg";
$layout->add_control($c);

$page->add_control($layout);

$dlg->add_page($page);

$dlg->draw();
-------------------------------------

- Carsten





From bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au  Sun Jul 13 08:50:10 2003
From: bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au (Ben Finney)
Date: 13 Jul 2003 22:40:10 +0950
Subject: The "intellectual property" misnomer
References: <mailman.1057994837.25939.python-list@python.org> <bergrd$ofu$1@news.hccnet.nl>
Message-ID: <slrnbh2mhi.95f.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>

On Sun, 13 Jul 2003 13:33:32 +0200, Anton Vredegoor wrote:
> Probably nothing good can come from using it. I am not saying that it
> cannot be used to prevent something bad, but that it's probably better
> to try to do something good ...

Thank you.  I am in complete agreement with this sentiment, but you've
expressed it simpler than I did.

> if an idea has any quality it almost always depends on the ideas of a
> lot of other people. Therefore ideas are very unlikely to be
> "undivided" property, unless the intellectual level is very low.

This was in large part my basis for stating the term was meaningless.

-- 
 \     "Jealousy: The theory that some other fellow has just as little |
  `\                                      taste."  -- Henry L. Mencken |
_o__)                                                                  |
http://bignose.squidly.org/ 9CFE12B0 791A4267 887F520C B7AC2E51 BD41714B



From m at moshez.org  Thu Jul 17 08:05:46 2003
From: m at moshez.org (Moshe Zadka)
Date: 17 Jul 2003 12:05:46 -0000
Subject: Python Asynchronous Services
In-Reply-To: <dKvRa.271$fF.8397@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au>
References: <dKvRa.271$fF.8397@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au>
Message-ID: <20030717120546.24653.qmail@green.zadka.com>

On Thu, 17 Jul 2003, "Graeme Matthew" <gsmatthew at ozemail.com.au> wrote:

> Hi all, I have hit a serious snag ...
...
> please any help or examples as I have now been on this for 2 days without
> any luck. I have looked at asyncore and asynchat, problem is once the server
> socket input is completed then their will be an area that is CPU bound where
> it will need to call the model, database etc and produce the html request,
> this means that control will only be handed back to IO operations when this
> is finished, effectively blocking all other requests  ....

Well, I can recommend Twisted. Twisted uses a producer/consumer model
to send large file, which is fairly transparent [there is a good
cut'n'pastable example of usage of this in twisted.web.static.File].
This should be enough to handle the network part. You claim there
is a CPU-bound operation after that -- if this is really true [and
in my experience, in many of the cases the operation are short enough
that it is not required] -- you can use Twisted's deferToThread to
treat those operations as though they were completely asynchronous.
This uses Twisted's internal threadpool support.

More information: http://twistedmatrix.com/
[Disclaimer: I am part of the Twisted developement team]
-- 
Moshe Zadka -- http://moshez.org/
Buffy: I don't like you hanging out with someone that... short.
Riley: Yeah, a lot of young people nowadays are experimenting with shortness.
Agile Programming Language -- http://www.python.org/




From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sat Jul  5 17:23:02 2003
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 5 Jul 2003 17:23:02 -0400
Subject: Python Open Source Project for Live Support
References: <be7b7a$rp$1@newsreader1.netway.at>
Message-ID: <be7fjm$srs$1@panix3.panix.com>

In article <be7b7a$rp$1 at newsreader1.netway.at>,
Sergio Lobo <sergio.lobo at supportdrive.com> wrote:
>
>I have developed a simple Online Support System which is running at
>www.supportdrive.com. The system is divided in 3 parts:
>
>1- Server - Implemented in Python
>2- Client - Delphi 6
>3- Web Client - PHP + Javascript

Anti-JavaScript FAQ:
http://www.rahul.net/aahz/javascript.html
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

Usenet is not a democracy.  It is a weird cross between an anarchy and a
dictatorship.  



From paul at boddie.net  Tue Jul 22 05:39:05 2003
From: paul at boddie.net (Paul Boddie)
Date: 22 Jul 2003 02:39:05 -0700
Subject: [OT] SCO is Going After End Users
References: <4868482a.0307211336.4ca9493a@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <23891c90.0307220139.1909fc63@posting.google.com>

clpy.NOSPAM at russellsalsbury.com (Russ Salsbury) wrote in message news:<4868482a.0307211336.4ca9493a at posting.google.com>...
> 
> I realize that this is OT, but SCO's action strikes at the heart of
> Open Source.  Somebody with the right patents can try to tax or shut
> down the rest of us, regardless of the validity of their claims.  If
> IBM, Red Hat, and the  decide that the the cost of settling is less
> than the cost of litigation, we all loose.  Fortunally, the claim
> against IBM is so big, $3B that they may fight it instead of settling.

(Insert footage of an office in IBM's legal department: the camera
pans upward from a stack of papers representing SCO's claims;
hysterical laughter can be heard as the camera pans across to one of
the lawyers; "I love this job!" he exclaims.)

Despite the wider implications of this case, plus the implications of
other recent developments (for me, that would have to include the
increased interest by various European Union factions in the
introduction of software patents), this really isn't the right forum
for constructive discussion about such issues. However, it must be
said that far too many people are unaware of such goings-on, or are
virtually apathetic about them ("as long as the free stuff keeps
coming", "it's not my place to think about it" and "if it's made
illegal, my employer will retrain me").

But thanks for the reminder that we really are lucky to be able to use
technologies and tools like Python, that the climate in which they
have been developed has so far been favourable to such innovation, and
that we should strive to maintain such a favourable environment
through the appropriate forums and channels.

Paul



From gh at ghaering.de  Thu Jul 31 10:17:51 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 16:17:51 +0200
Subject: SQL2000 database vs python
In-Reply-To: <55939F05720D954E9602518B77F6127F02F46920@FTWMLVEM01.e2k.ad.ge.com>
References: <55939F05720D954E9602518B77F6127F02F46920@FTWMLVEM01.e2k.ad.ge.com>
Message-ID: <3F29250F.6040403@ghaering.de>

Raaijmakers, Vincent (IndSys, GE Interlogix) wrote:
> Ok I was too happy.
> 
> mssqldb doesn't help me to connect my python app on a linux OS to a sql2000 (windows os) database.
> I can't even compile the package, I guess it is missing sybase stuff (sybdb.h and sybfront.h), 
> which is correct because I don't have that database.

There should be an option to compile it against FreeTDS 
(http://www.freetds.org/)

It's probably best to ask further questions on the mailing list for this 
database adapter.

> Also, mssqldb supports ms sql server 7.0, my hope is that that won't be a problem in using ms sql 2000.

Don't give up so fast :) I'm pretty sure this can be made to work.

If this ultimately fails, there are other alternatives like an ODBC-ODBC 
bridge, SQLRelay, or something like

http://sourceforge.net/projects/pyxsqmll

But the last project seems to be *quite* inactive.

-- Gerhard




From jjl at pobox.com  Sun Jul 27 20:43:21 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 28 Jul 2003 01:43:21 +0100
Subject: mxTidy
References: <MPG.198d8c02be8f5a249896b9@news.mminternet.com>
Message-ID: <87k7a3a3bq.fsf@pobox.com>

james roush <jar at mminternet.com> writes:

> What versions of Python will mxTidy work with.  I'm using it with Python 
> v2.1.x but want to upgrade to 2.3 when it is released
> 
> Are there any alternatives to mxTidy?

uTidylib

Wrapper of the new tidylib.  Not yet clear to me if and how it's
better, but it is more actively maintained than mxTidy.


John



From ianb at colorstudy.com  Fri Jul 11 14:39:37 2003
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: 11 Jul 2003 13:39:37 -0500
Subject: Securing 'pickle'
In-Reply-To: <87k7apyuor.fsf@pobox.com>
References: <pan.2003.07.11.01.20.47.998070@127.0.0.1>
	 <slrnbgs4hc.hop.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>
	 <7x1xwxu98y.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <3F0E1875.574DC6D7@alcyone.com>
	 <mailman.1057892296.5329.python-list@python.org> <87k7apyuor.fsf@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <1057948777.28274.6.camel@lothlorien>

On Fri, 2003-07-11 at 10:00, John J. Lee wrote:
> Ian Bicking <ianb at colorstudy.com> writes:
> [...]
> > Security isn't a big deal -- or rather, securing cookies isn't a big
> > deal.
> 
> I don't understand.  The problem is that pickles can be constructed
> that can damage systems when unpickled, is that right?  If that's
> true, then surely unpickling cookie data is unsafe, because stuff
> coming in from the network has to be regarded as malevolent.  Are you
> saying that web server environments are sufficiently-well bolted down
> that no pickle attack will work?  But belt-and-braces is the best
> policy, isn't it?

I should have said "securing cookies isn't hard", so that's not the
reason not to use them (though you shouldn't just use plain-vanilla
cookies).  

  Ian






From intentionally at blank.co.uk  Tue Jul 15 17:20:16 2003
From: intentionally at blank.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 22:20:16 +0100
Subject: Qualified appology (was Re: anything like C++ references?)
References: <mailman.1058129901.28248.python-list@python.org>  <plk3hv0s1m2egf4s34jo6vjedk0q8r2mu9@4ax.com>  <m365m6ul5c.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>  <1br3hv4434gn7p2pdg1bgtg8dtlak3id3s@4ax.com>  <f0f51c80.0307140708.3c88363d@posting.google.com>  <jm76hvkmdqq3erpd89mcvo0l1d0sbfcivm@4ax.com> <20030714172215452-0600@news.xmission.com> <rqu6hvgooedmq475ig3ic9ngqgj6uq0hv2@4ax.com> <gj87hv8gqpbv6032plo7nnnkmp56nq6q6p@4ax.com> <2259b0e2.0307150532.1b6b20b7@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <omr8hvcri52abrtkjag2lbdbjhv0ehns0h@4ax.com>

On 15 Jul 2003 06:32:48 -0700, mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato)
wrote:

>Tim Roberts <timr at probo.com> wrote in message news:
>> Whether or not I agree with you, you have made me think.  That's worth the
>> price of my Internet connection this month.
>
>+1 QOTW

Thanks for saying so. Not sure if Tims 'civil and intellectual' thing
counts any more from my side. I've let it get to me, I suppose. Time
to shut up and leave it alone.

Of course, I said something similar some time ago :-(




From lorenzo at mysurname.net  Sat Jul 12 07:48:46 2003
From: lorenzo at mysurname.net (Lorenzo Bolognini)
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 11:48:46 GMT
Subject: Old post about XML overhyped
Message-ID: <yASPa.33811$qa5.751050@news2.tin.it>

Hi all,

i'm googling for an old post appeared here about XML overhyped. I do
remember a sentence that sounded like this (more | less):

"Management thinks that webservices are good because xml is good and
exchainging data between different platforms is good"

I'm not able to find it could somebody point to the original post and help
me find it... it was a very interesting thread and want to read it more
carefully! ;-)

Lorenzo





From bokr at oz.net  Fri Jul 25 11:03:07 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 25 Jul 2003 15:03:07 GMT
Subject: Don't want to do the regexp test twice
References: <mailman.1059083242.32477.python-list@python.org> <bfq3vk$bqv$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <bfrgrb$5dc$0@216.39.172.122>

On 25 Jul 2003 02:17:24 GMT, bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) wrote:
[...]
>You can spell
>
> ...     elif setattr(obj,'mat', pat.search(line)) or obj.mat:
> ...         print repr(obj.mat), obj.mat.groups(), obj.mat.group()
>
>a little slicker if you make a special object to hold a binding to
>the pat.search result, e.g., h is the Holder instance in the following,
>which remembers the last thing passed to it and immediately returns it,
>and also returns that last thing on being called without an arg:
>
> >>> mylist
> ['', 'a', 'bc', 'def', 'ghij']
> >>> h = Holder()
> >>> for line in mylist:
> ...     if 1==2: 'naw'
> ...     elif 3==4: 'neither'
> ...     elif h(pat.search(line)):
> ...         print repr(h()), h().groups(), h().group()
> ...     elif 4==5: 'haw'
> ...     else:
> ...         print 'final else'
> ...
> final else
> final else
> final else
> <_sre.SRE_Match object at 0x007F6FC0> () def
> <_sre.SRE_Match object at 0x007F6F80> () ghi
>
>Obviously
>     ...         print repr(h()), h().groups(), h().group()
>could have been
>     ...         mat=h(); print repr(mat), mat.groups(), mat.group()
>instead.
>
Sorry, I seem to have snipped out a Holder definition, in case anyone cares:

 >>> class Holder(object):
 ...     def __call__(self, *args):
 ...         if args: self.val = args[0]
 ...         return self.val
 ...
 >>> h = Holder()
 >>> h(123)
 123
 >>> h()
 123
 >>> h(345),h(),h(678),h() # result depends on left-to-right eval here
 (345, 345, 678, 678)

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Thu Jul 31 11:00:19 2003
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 11:00:19 -0400
Subject: Python's biggest compromises
References: <899f842.0307310555.56134f71@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <viibo7t45unv83@news.supernews.com>

"Anthony_Barker" <anthony_barker at hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:899f842.0307310555.56134f71 at posting.google.com...
> I have been reading a book about the evolution of the Basic
> programming language. The author states that Basic - particularly
> Microsoft's version is full of compromises which crept in along the
> language's 30+ year evolution.
>
> What to you think python largest compromises are?
>
> The three that come to my mind are significant whitespace, dynamic
> typing, and that it is interpreted - not compiled. These three put
> python under fire and cause some large projects to move off python or
> relegate it to prototyping.
>
> Whitespace is an esthetic preference that make Andrew Hunt and David
> Thomas (of Pragmatic Programmer fame) prefer Ruby. Personally, I love
> it - but I can see why some people might not like it (30 years of
> braces).

Since I'm not particularly masochistic, I will respectfully disagree.
Unnecessary braces are one of the reasons I haven't looked at
Ruby.

That said, I've come to the conclusion that the editor should take
care of these things for you. If you prefer a brace free notation,
you should be able to tell your editor to present the program to you
that way. If you prefer braces, then it should be able do that for
you as well. That kind of stylistic thing doesn't belong in the
language.

In fact, if I didn't have to deal with the braces, I think I'd come
around to the view that the text should have them. Explicit is
better than implicit, and there are a few things that the
automatic indentation makes rather difficult in the design area.

> Dynamic typing causes the most fuss. I like Guido's answer to the
> question -
> > "Doesn't dynamic typing cause more errors to creep into the code
> because you catch them later than compile time?".
> > "No, we use Unit Testing in Zope".
>
> That said, obvious Basic compromised by using things such as "Option
> Explicit", thereby allowing both dynamic and more static style
> variables. Yahoo groups moved from python to C due to dynamic typing.

Basic was compromised from day 1. Its designers tried to water
down Fortran to produce something that they could use to teach
programming in an interactive system. The late Ejdsger Dykstra called
Fortran an "infantile disorder". While he was rather outspoken, he had
his reasons. The only reason that Basic exists today is that Bill Gates
has a certain fondness for that interpreter he wrote that got him his
start in the business.

> Non-compiled - obviously there are times when performance matters more
> than other things. Google I believe uses python to prototype (or used)
> and then turns to c++ for heavy lifting.

High performance isn't Python's target. If PyPy ever gets their act
off the ground, then we will have a shot at a good quality JIT
interpreter. Then watch it fly.

> What about immutable strings? I'm not sure I understand Guido's
> preference for them.

Immutable objects make it much easier to do dictionaries. That's
why Python has both lists and tuples. The actual problem with
immutable strings is performance. While you can concatinate
strings with '+', if you've got more than two strings to put together,
it's faster (and clearer) to use the '%' formatting operator. This
isn't real obvious to experianced programmers that are new to the
language, though.

I don't see any of these as compromises. Python has a specific
location on the spectrum that makes it better for certain things than
for others.

John Roth


>
> Anthony
> http://xminc.com/anthony





From bignose-hates-spam at and-benfinney-does-too.id.au  Thu Jul 24 02:12:36 2003
From: bignose-hates-spam at and-benfinney-does-too.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: 24 Jul 2003 16:02:36 +0950
Subject: file.close()
References: <edITa.131868$Ph3.17333@sccrnsc04> <3F1F5297.15D768EF@alcyone.com> <slrnbhukr8.13c.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local> <3F1F5CB2.7FB4C205@alcyone.com> <slrnbhunuo.13c.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local> <3F1F6C4B.BE9CCA25@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <slrnbhuvc4.13c.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>

On Wed, 23 Jul 2003 22:19:07 -0700, Erik Max Francis wrote:
> Ben Finney wrote:
>> This doesn't match Bryan's nested structure above, which you blessed
>> as not "overkill" (in his words).
> It doesn't have the same nested pattern, but try/finally isn't at
> issue here.

Judging by Bryan's responses elsewhere in this thread, the multiple
nested 'try...finally' is indeed what he was asking about.  The question
seems to be answered now.

-- 
 \       "Those who will not reason, are bigots, those who cannot, are |
  `\     fools, and those who dare not, are slaves."  -- "Lord" George |
_o__)                                                Gordon Noel Byron |
http://bignose.squidly.org/ 9CFE12B0 791A4267 887F520C B7AC2E51 BD41714B



From martin at v.loewis.de  Wed Jul  9 15:35:25 2003
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-15?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 09 Jul 2003 21:35:25 +0200
Subject: Shared vs static link performance hit --and Windows?
References: <k7clgvoqjur1f10mosue3os74vv7nd34hi@4ax.com> <mailman.1057672018.10107.python-list@python.org> <6btlgvgjq48mbtmu097939dl1c1gmki0qd@4ax.com> <mailman.1057713433.5610.python-list@python.org> <m3he5wgt9b.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <mailman.1057756641.23469.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m3brw33342.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Andrew MacIntyre <andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au> writes:

> The important distinction between Win32+OS/2 and Unix is that the dynamic
> linkage uses relocation fixup records to relocate Windows (& OS/2) DLLs,
> whereas the dynamic linkage on Unix does not support the relocation action
> for shared objects - hence the use of PIC on Unix.

That is not the case. Most recent Unix versions (Solaris, Linux, most
likely others) support dynamic relocations in shared libraries just
fine. Linux, for example, maps all code segments copy-on-write, so
sharing is given up only for the pages that need relocations.

On such systems, use of PIC is only for performance, to save the
relocations. Notice that this use is often questioned, as you have to
trade runtime efficiency due to the loss of general-purpose registers
to the PIC implementation, on particular on x86. So for long-running
applications, it would be better to accept the relocations at start-up
time, and get better performance during the computations.

Regards,
Martin



From adechert at earthlink.net  Mon Jul 21 03:44:42 2003
From: adechert at earthlink.net (Alan Dechert)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 07:44:42 GMT
Subject: Python voting demo discussion
Message-ID: <KRMSa.112426$Io.9623657@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>

Thanks for the interesting discussion yesterday afternoon about the voting
software development project I am working on putting together.

Almost all of the discussion had nothing to do with my question, but that's
okay.  Actually, I knew it would probably go that was but I could not very
well say, "don't ask me all those other questions."  It was reasonable for
you to ask.

Ian Bicking and Andrew Dalke did say they thought Python should be fine for
the demo but I didn't get much detail about why we should prefer it over
some of the other possibilities:  HTML, XML, Perl, Java, PHP, C, C++, C#, C,
etc.

If you have anything to add regarding this specific issue, I would be
interested to hear it.

Thanks again for your time.

-- Alan Dechert






From max at alcyone.com  Wed Jul 23 15:18:56 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 12:18:56 -0700
Subject: Shallow vs Deep copies [was Re:  python assignment]
References: <fbf8d8f2.0307221659.1dd1ac77@posting.google.com> <mailman.1058928524.20417.python-list@python.org> <1jr2v-vd.ln1@grendel.myth>
Message-ID: <3F1EDFA0.ED78E04F@alcyone.com>

Jim Richardson wrote:

> A shallow copy of an object, returns an object that contains
> references
> to objects within the copied object, yes?
> 
> so a list consisting of [1,2,a,"a"] when copied shallowly, will return
> exactly that, but when copied deeply, will reture [1,2,"whatever a
> points to","a"] yes?

No, that's what the first list already consists of:

>>> a = "whatever a points to"
>>> l1 = [1, 2, a, "a"]
>>> l1
[1, 2, 'whatever a points to', 'a']

A shallow copy makes a new object of the object passed in, and maintains
the same reference.  A deep copy makes a new object, _and_ a new object
of all references it contains, and on down the line.

The difference between shallow and deep copying is not apparent when
you're talking about immutable objects, since immutable objects need not
ever be literally copied.  Consider a simpler case of a list containing
a single element, which is an instance of a custom class:

>>> class C: pass
... 
>>> c = C()
>>> x = [c]
>>> y = copy.copy(x)
>>> x is y
0
>>> x[0] is y[0]
1
>>> z = copy.deepcopy(x)
>>> x is z
0
>>> x[0] is z[0]
0
>>> x[0]
<__main__.C instance at 0x810ba8c>
>>> z[0]
<__main__.C instance at 0x814c9fc>

Shallow copying makes a duplicate of the parent object.  Deep copying
makes a duplicate of everything.

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ Of war men ask the outcome, not the cause.
\__/  Seneca



From jepler at unpythonic.net  Wed Jul  9 23:49:05 2003
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 22:49:05 -0500
Subject: Embedding Python, threading and scalability
In-Reply-To: <20E0F651F8B82F45ABCBACC58A2D995B0518AD@mexper1>
References: <20E0F651F8B82F45ABCBACC58A2D995B0518AD@mexper1>
Message-ID: <20030710034901.GA4856@unpythonic.net>

On Thu, Jul 10, 2003 at 11:14:47AM +0800, Simon Wittber (Maptek) wrote:
> Seriously though, this is an issue, which is a major hurdle Python *has*
> to cross if it is ever going to be seriously considered for use on large
> projects, on large SMP hardware.

Has anybody proposed "how to get there from here" for this problem
(useful multithreading of non-blocking pure Python code)?  I'm not
bright enough to see how, that's for sure.  Especially if you are
talking about an incremental approach, not the mythical "Python 3000".
What I mean is that you have to work this magic *and* somehow let
existing modules written in C work, with at worst a recompile.  (as
someone who doesn't *need* threads, but works on a project with piles of
Python modules written in C, that's my bias anyway)

Someone nearby mentioned lua, but I don't know what it did for threading.
Perl and tcl both seem to have taken the approach of having each thread
be a distinct interpreter with nothing shared.  While this means you
never have to worry about locking against a reader or modifier in another
thread, it means you might as well be using the processes that the angry
Unix Gods gave us in the first place. <1/3 overstatement>  I'm pretty sure
that this approach has been explicitly ruled out by that other angry God,
Guido van Rossum, anyway.

I've written Python programs that use threads in a way that was expedient
to get a user interface running without long seizures, while I've never
written a thread in tcl or perl.  OTOH if I'd had to treat everything
as explicit message passing (a la tcl threading), I'd have just found
another way (like "after idle" and "update" in tcl)

Jython will give you Java's thread model today, for Python code, won't
it?  Back when I benchmarked it, Jython code and Python code ran at
fairly similar speeds (in pybench), if only you had a machine that could
keep the Jython interpreter from swapping...

Jeff




From ianb at colorstudy.com  Wed Jul  9 22:40:56 2003
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: 09 Jul 2003 21:40:56 -0500
Subject: Sample Web application (Re: Python vs PHP)
In-Reply-To: <20030710021451.24619.qmail@green.zadka.com>
References: <1057801996.3737.1223.camel@lothlorien>
	 , <mailman.1057574470.1750.python-list@python.org>
	 <kmolgv4mp12o71ocion7ra0m2s9fcrqjdk@4ax.com>
	 <begc78$rui$1@mawar.singnet.com.sg> <VLicnfImRJLPkpGiRTvUqA@speakeasy.net>
	 <behc69$o3t$1@news1.wdf.sap-ag.de>
	 <mailman.1057772055.6056.python-list@python.org>
	 <tYqcnZji2bzS5ZGiRTvUqg@speakeasy.net>
	 <20030710021451.24619.qmail@green.zadka.com>
Message-ID: <1057804855.3738.1235.camel@lothlorien>

On Wed, 2003-07-09 at 21:14, Moshe Zadka wrote:
> On 09 Jul 2003, Ian Bicking <ianb at colorstudy.com> wrote:
> 
> > I think installation is a major hindrance to Python's
> > adoption as a web programming language -- a combination off difficult
> > installation, and a lack of robustness and generality in installation
> > methods.
> 
> Since PHP is widely adopted as a web programming language, I assume
> you think PHP's installation methods are robusts and general?
> Let me assure you, having done PHP configuration in Apache, it
> is far from it -- in fact, it is buggy and annoying beyond all
> measure. [I was *shocked* to discover, for example, I can't associate
> all .html files in a directory with PHP. I am sure it is a great
> visibility booster for PHP to have pages end with .php, but I didn't
> care much for it.] 

PHP's installation is difficult, but fairly robust.  The result is a
system where pages can be added easily, multiple users can coexist,
server health is generally maintained, and administrator overhead
*after* installation is pretty good.  For a large set of applications,
you don't have to interact with the administrator during installation or
development of your application.  Interacting with system administrators
usually does not make developers happy, so that's a big plus.

PHP certainly sucks in a whole bunch of ways, installation included, but
it gives administrators what they want (simplicity and delegation), and
gives users what they want (an available environment with a relatively
decent learning/usage curve).

  Ian






From kkto at csis.hku.hk  Tue Jul 22 21:08:29 2003
From: kkto at csis.hku.hk (Isaac To)
Date: 23 Jul 2003 09:08:29 +0800
Subject: Search for a string in binary files
References: <bfhldv$lb$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <mailman.1058840314.10448.python-list@python.org> <bfjf6d$1f3$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <mailman.1058908416.6127.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7ihe5edp82.fsf@enark.csis.hku.hk>

>>>>> "Fran?ois" == Fran?ois Pinard <pinard at iro.umontreal.ca> writes:

    Fran?ois> [hokieghal99]
    >> One last question: does grep actually open files when it searches
    >> them?

    Fran?ois> I did not look at `grep' sources for a good while, I might not
    Fran?ois> remember correctly, read me with caution.  `grep' might be
    Fran?ois> trying to `mmap' the files if the file (and the underlying
    Fran?ois> system) allows this, and there is system overhead associated
    Fran?ois> with that function, just like `open'.

Mmap requires the file descriptor of the file as argument, so the file still
has to be opened.  In general "open" is the OS interface to request for
access to file data, so there is no way around it.

Regards,
Isaac.



From pythonguy at Hotpop.com  Wed Jul 30 09:11:41 2003
From: pythonguy at Hotpop.com (Anand Pillai)
Date: 30 Jul 2003 06:11:41 -0700
Subject: How to get success/failure in case of thread
References: <20030728175542.A23857@cs.unipune.ernet.in> <16165.10847.483917.787182@montanaro.dyndns.org> <mailman.1059467622.12587.python-list@python.org> <84fc4588.0307290442.7c203e35@posting.google.com> <mailman.1059552864.3047.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <84fc4588.0307300511.11b4db5b@posting.google.com>

If you can post some actual code here I could be of more help.

Cheers
~Anand

vivek at cs.unipune.ernet.in wrote in message news:<mailman.1059552864.3047.python-list at python.org>...
> I think I have asked the wrong question :-( . I think the question should be :
> 
>   How can I use multiple threads in SimpleXMLRPCServer ???
> 
> I tried the following things:
>   
> 1.  added a queue object in the handler class
> 2.  called the _dispatch mathod on a separate thread
> 3.  in the _dispatch method after getting the reqult put it in queue
> 4.  called another function that will send the response that was previously
> send by the dispatch method.
> 
> But when I tried this it failed miserably :-(
> 
> I even don't know whether I tried in the right direction or not ??
> 
> Any help/pointers. ???
> 
> TIA and Kind Regards
> Vivek Kumar



From janeaustine50 at hotmail.com  Fri Jul 11 06:30:10 2003
From: janeaustine50 at hotmail.com (Jane Austine)
Date: 11 Jul 2003 03:30:10 -0700
Subject: Is re module thread-safe?
Message-ID: <ba1e306f.0307110230.5e2e7ce8@posting.google.com>

As the subject says, is re module thread-safe?

I have a couple of threads using re module. Is it thread-safe? or
should I use something like lock acquire/release?

Jane



From hokiegal99 at hotmail.com  Mon Jul 21 17:19:59 2003
From: hokiegal99 at hotmail.com (hokieghal99)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 17:19:59 -0400
Subject: Search for a string in binary files
Message-ID: <bfhldv$lb$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>

Hello,

How could I use python to search for a string in binary files? From the 
command line, I would do something like this on a Linux machine to find 
this string:

grep -a "Microsoft Excel" *.xls

How can I do this in Python?




From logiplex at qwest.net  Wed Jul 30 17:38:05 2003
From: logiplex at qwest.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: 30 Jul 2003 14:38:05 -0700
Subject: gnome applet with python
In-Reply-To: <pan.2003.07.30.15.36.15.886592@moor.pe.kr_NOSPAM_>
References: <pan.2003.07.30.15.36.15.886592@moor.pe.kr_NOSPAM_>
Message-ID: <1059601084.8920.4234.camel@software1.logiplex.internal>

On Wed, 2003-07-30 at 08:36, nabugoon wrote:
> Hi all.
> 
> I'm trying to write gnome applet program with python.
> But, it is too difficult to find any document about that.
> One web page I had found was old.
> (http://www.onlamp.com/pub/a/python/2000/07/25/gnome_applet.html?page=2)
> There is no AppletWidget attribute anymore and 'Gtk' prefix at gtk module 
> functions

I don't use that toolkit, but I know a lot of the Redhat utilities do. 
If you're on RH, take a look at 

/usr/share/rhn/rhn_applet/rhn_applet.py

which seems a good place to start.

-- 
Cliff Wells, Software Engineer
Logiplex Corporation (www.logiplex.net)
(503) 978-6726  (800) 735-0555





From tjreedy at udel.edu  Thu Jul 17 17:43:22 2003
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 17:43:22 -0400
Subject: Replacing rexec
References: <mailman.1058378245.3305.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <dBqdnbyTebbnhYqiU-KYgg@comcast.com>

"Tim Gerla" <tgerla at outsourcefinancial.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.1058378245.3305.python-list at python.org...
> (I apologize if I've dug up a long-dead horse,

It is perhaps one worth digging up about now (with 2.3 about out).

> but I haven't found any
> posts in the archive on this that really explain what I'm asking.)

The discussion of this issue was last fall and winter mostly on
PyDev - the development discussion list - and not on c.l.py.  Aahz +
Tim Peters have given a fair summary, but for more details, consult
the (bi)monthly summaries which Brett Cannon resumed last October
(available on python.org) and perhaps then the archives themselves.

Terry J. Reedy





From genew at mail.ocis.net  Sat Jul  5 23:56:51 2003
From: genew at mail.ocis.net (Gene Wirchenko)
Date: Sun, 06 Jul 2003 03:56:51 GMT
Subject: Collective memory
References: <mailman.1057083728.8224.python-list@python.org> <vg88va53uha8e@corp.supernews.com> <hff5eb.e9h.ln@escape.shannon.net> <3f06af11$0$49113$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <3f071e0c.4620472@news.ocis.net>

Irmen de Jong <irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl> wrote:

>Charles Shannon Hendrix wrote:
> > Python uses it for actually determining the logic in your program, which
> > IMHO is dangerous.

     Not at all.  It just means that I will never use Python if it is
at all avoidable.  My backhanded compliments: it is actually less safe
than C.

> >     if <something>
> >         <work>
> >         <more work>
> >         <add numbers>
> >
> > Is <add numbers> part of the if statement, or did someone with different
> > tab settings from the author make a mistake and align it accidentally?
>
>To catch such mistakes, Python has the -tt command line option:
>-t     : issue warnings about inconsistent tab usage (-tt: issue errors)

     What is inconsistent about the tab usage above?  That is, why
would it be flagged?

>There's also tabnanny.py in the standard library to check things
>before executing code. I'm not sure, but I suspect that PyChecker
>also checks this.

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko

Computerese Irregular Verb Conjugation:
     I have preferences.
     You have biases.
     He/She has prejudices.



From pinard at iro.umontreal.ca  Mon Jul 14 16:12:45 2003
From: pinard at iro.umontreal.ca (Francois Pinard)
Date: 14 Jul 2003 16:12:45 -0400
Subject: Confusing automated translators.
In-Reply-To: <16146.53798.759651.430032@montanaro.dyndns.org>
References: <37d6f77c.0307130932.1e3adf0d@posting.google.com>
	<3f11ac74$0$49101$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
	<ad052e5c.0307131718.4903430d@posting.google.com>
	<3F12808B.E53193B8@hotmail.com>
	<mailman.1058189001.18190.python-list@python.org>
	<3F12CE17.76A0A5@hotmail.com>
	<16146.53798.759651.430032@montanaro.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <oqsmp8j29u.fsf@alcyon.progiciels-bpi.ca>

[Skip Montanaro]

>     >> Another similar classic, for French, is "Le pilote ferme la
>     >> porte.".

> Not being any sort of French speaker, I don't understand the "pilote ferme"
> one at all.  Fran?ois?

Just to repeat publicly the content of a private reply, the two meanings
could be:

   "The driver closes the door."
   "The firm driver is carrying her."

The second meaning is clearly wrong to most listeners, but an automated
system has no real clue about this (unless it does wider context analysis
with the surrounding sentences, but this is fairly difficult.)

-- 
Fran??ois Pinard   http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/~pinard




From mwilson at the-wire.com  Tue Jul 15 12:13:52 2003
From: mwilson at the-wire.com (Mel Wilson)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 12:13:52 -0400
Subject: A few beginning questions
References: <3f129a8a$1@mail.hmgcc.gov.uk>
 <2259b0e2.0307140930.4b3c43a5@posting.google.com> <ptkdj863.fsf@python.net>
 <bf0anc$9gch1$1@ID-141451.news.uni-berlin.de> <3f13bd77$1@mail.hmgcc.gov.uk>
 <Xns93B968108D2DCduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <AhCF/ks/KjWP089yn@the-wire.com>

In article <Xns93B968108D2DCduncanrcpcouk at 127.0.0.1>,
Duncan Booth <duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk> wrote:
>"richardc" <richardc at hmgcc.gov.uk> wrote in
>news:3f13bd77$1 at mail.hmgcc.gov.uk:
>> 3. How do I reverse iterate through a loop ... is there an easier way
>> than something like the following
>>     l = ['some', 'text', 'in', 'a', 'list' ]
>>     for i in range( 0, len( l ) ):
>>         do something to l[ i ]
>
>The usual way is simply to reverse the list before iterating over it.
>
>     l = ['some', 'text', 'in', 'a', 'list' ]
>     l_reversed = l.reverse()
>     for item in l_reversed:
>         do something to item

Trouble.  l.reverse() reverses l in place.  So just

        l.reverse()
        for item in l:
...


        Regards.        Mel.



From bokr at oz.net  Tue Jul 15 22:07:18 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 16 Jul 2003 02:07:18 GMT
Subject: anything like C++ references?
References: <b8c3hvsesjoumiboobml3nsnajtha99mp1@4ax.com> <m3znjg5qw7.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <3f67hvgi36s7rmtn59rajj2gpir8hhfiph@4ax.com> <3F13ADDD.57BF2969@alcyone.com> <bf13rg$hgo$1@panix2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <bf2c0m$n84$0@216.39.172.122>

On 15 Jul 2003 10:41:52 -0400, aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) wrote:

>In article <3F13ADDD.57BF2969 at alcyone.com>,
>Erik Max Francis  <max at alcyone.com> wrote:
>>
>>The value is the object.  The object is the value.
>
>Actually, that's not quite true, and it's something I've been wrestling
>with how to describe.  What's the value of a file object?  I think in a
>very real sense, a file object doesn't have a "value".  You could try
>arguing that the file contents are the value, but that value is not
>contained within the object -- the object is a proxy.  Saying that the
>filename is the value doesn't work, either, especially when you want to
>talk generically about file-like objects (such as StringIO and sockets).

ISTM the trouble is that in causual talk about "value" there is an implicit
mapping function involved which usually doesn't need mentioning. The mapping
is from a concrete "thing-supposed-to-have-value" representation to a member
of an abstract set of values, such as integers. E.g., a suitable function
can map "15" to the same abstract and unique value as another function maps "F" to.
Note that "15" can map to the same as "twentyone" depending on the function applied.

The point is that a representation has no instrinsic value, it corresponds to a
value in a particular abstract set by way of a particular valuation function.

Thus I would say that the "value" of a file object depends on the valuation function
you apply. Without specifying the latter, there can be no value.

Concretely, a valuation function can only return another representation, but that
can be useful in getting closer to a simple abstraction. E.g., StringIO.getvalue()
or f.seek(0);f.read() returning string representations, whose value may be an octet
sequence, which is easy to think of in the abstract, or it could be a sequence of
abstract glyph-set members, identified by a mapping through ord() and indexing the
ordered glyph set. I.e., a mapping function may be a composition of a conventional
series of function applications.

Anyway, ISTM "value" usually presupposes a conventional choice of mapping function.

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From jwhitlark at attbi.com  Mon Jul 14 21:01:55 2003
From: jwhitlark at attbi.com (Jason Whitlark)
Date: 14 Jul 2003 18:01:55 -0700
Subject: A framework for recording, editing, and executing macros in Python?
Message-ID: <d3464e8f.0307141701.19a9907e@posting.google.com>

One of the benefits of python always thrown about is how easy it is to
use as a macro language.  While this certainly has wide applicably, I
have always been interested in a little more; namely, the ability to
record and then edit macros, as in MS Word, Excel, etc.  A recent post
http://groups.google.com/groups?threadm=mailman.1056722085.11922.python-list at python.org
convinced me that this was possible, so I spend a few hours this
weekend and hacked up a basic system as a proof of concept.

While I was doing this, I found nothing on the net about the
particulars of what I was trying to do.  While it hasn't been too
hard, I feel that there should be a document of the general techniques
possible, what design decisions affect this, (eg. Command pattern,
events, and direct calls to an underlying class.), and other relevant
points.  While I would be willing to write this, I feel that I do not
know enough about what other people might need from this.

My request is that you post your thoughts on the subject, different
ways to do it, what might be useful in such a framework, whether this
is worth making a full project like py, formerly pycrust, or if it
should just be posted on the cookbook sites, etc.

Please let me know what you think; I have this code and ideas and do
not know what do with them!



From max at cNOvSisiPonAtecMh.com  Fri Jul 18 13:48:14 2003
From: max at cNOvSisiPonAtecMh.com (Max Khesin)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 17:48:14 GMT
Subject: Perl -> Python hopeless?
References: <3f182c9a$0$276$ba620e4c@reader0.news.skynet.be>
Message-ID: <ypWRa.46002$Aw.14962@twister.nyc.rr.com>

Answer: I think they are working on somethig that will allow perl lib usage
in python.
Question: Can someone in the know drop a line?

--
========================================
Max Khesin, software developer -
max at cNvOiSsPiAoMntech.com
[check out our image compression software at www.cvisiontech.com, JBIG2-PDF
compression @
www.cvisiontech.com/cvistapdf.html]


"Helmut Jarausch" <jarausch at skynet.be> wrote in message
news:3f182c9a$0$276$ba620e4c at reader0.news.skynet.be...
> Hi,
> having been a Perl fan for years I have nearly converted to Python.
> Still, there are LOTS and very good modules written in Perl.
>
> Is there a tool to lesson the burdon of translation of Perl to Python?
> I am completely aware of the fact that a fully automatic translation
> to readable Python source is hard if not impossible.
> But such a tool could lots of the tedious work like replacing
> braces by proper indentation and and similar things.
>
> Thanks for a pointer (if there is one)
>
> --
> Helmut Jarausch
>
> Lehrstuhl fuer Numerische Mathematik
> RWTH - Aachen University
> D 52056 Aachen, Germany
>





From lale at fotonation.com  Mon Jul  7 08:40:07 2003
From: lale at fotonation.com (Ilariu Raducan)
Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 13:40:07 +0100
Subject: PythonWin dynamic toolbar
Message-ID: <PQdOa.21823$pK2.33101@news.indigo.ie>

Hi All,
I'm trying to create a  dynamic toolbar.
This function tries to create the toolbar and add a button to it.
It craches at tbctrl.SteBitmapSize(32,32)

What is wrong with it?

Thank you,
Lale


     def OnCreateClient(self,context,obj):
         window.MDIChildWnd.OnCreateClient(self,context,obj)
         parent = self
         style = win32con.WS_CHILD | win32con.WS_VISIBLE | 
                        		afxres.CBRS_SIZE_DYNAMIC | afxres.CBRS_TOP | \ 
                        		afxres.CBRS_TOOLTIPS | afxres.CBRS_FLYBY
         self.toolbar = tb = win32ui.CreateToolBar (parent, style)
         tbctrl = tb.GetToolBarCtrl()
         tbctrl.SetBitmapSize(32,32)
         bmp = win32ui.CreateBitmap()
         bmp.LoadBitmapFile(open('importimages.bmp','r'))
         bmpIndex = tbctrl.AddBitmap(1,bmp)
         tbctrl.AddStrings('rect\0point\0poligon\0')
         tbutton = tbctrl.TBUTTON        					 
tbutton[0]=(bmpIndex,868,win32con.TBSTATE_ENABLED, 			 
win32con.TBSTYLE_BUTTON,None,0)
         tbctrl.AddButtons(1,tbutton)
         tb.EnableDocking(afxres.CBRS_ALIGN_ANY)
         tb.SetWindowText("Test")
         parent.EnableDocking(afxres.CBRS_ALIGN_ANY)
         parent.DockControlBar(tb)
         print tbctrl.GetButtonCount()
         return 1




From vze4rx4y at verizon.net  Fri Jul 18 03:09:40 2003
From: vze4rx4y at verizon.net (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 07:09:40 GMT
Subject: How do I get info on an exception ?
References: <fc07672ed11f5dcad539bcf9bf0d051f@news.1usenet.com>
Message-ID: <U2NRa.7475$7O.275@nwrdny01.gnilink.net>

"Frank" <Frank at home> wrote in message
news:fc07672ed11f5dcad539bcf9bf0d051f at news.1usenet.com...
> Using Python 2.2.2,
> I want to catch all exceptions from "socket.gethostbyaddr(ip)"
>
> From IDLE, I can generate:
> >>> socket.gethostbyaddr('1.2')
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<pyshell#28>", line 1, in ?
>     socket.gethostbyaddr('1.2')
> herror: (11004, 'host not found')   <=== what I want when I catch
>
> When I run this code:
>         try:
>             hostname, aliases, hostip = socket.gethostbyaddr(ip)
>             return (hostip, hostname)
>         except:
>             print sys.exc_info()
>             print sys.exc_type
>             return

> How do I get the "(11004, 'host not found')" part?

You could catch it with:

            except socket.herror, inst:
                  print inst.args

or more broadly with:

             except socket.error, (errno, string_message):
                   print code, message


> More importantly, where is the answer documented that I should
> have looked?

The list of possible socket exceptions is in the docs for sockets.
It also describes the (errno, string) return tuple value of inst.args.



Raymond Hettinger





From mertz at gnosis.cx  Mon Jul  7 12:34:41 2003
From: mertz at gnosis.cx (Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters)
Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 12:34:41 -0400
Subject: anything new on the ternary operator?
References: <3F09252F.9B0F52BD@alcyone.com>,
 <mailman.1057533670.9800.python-list@python.org>
 <beae42$d01$1@panix2.panix.com>
 <mailman.1057574950.16136.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <hEaC/kKkXUtC092yn@gnosis.cx>         

Moshe Zadka <m at moshez.org> wrote previously:
|I'm sorry, I was going to let this slide by, but this comment made it
|impossible. How the hell do you figure EuroPython, the biggest Python
|conference in Europe and largely equivalent to the size of PyCon, is a
|"local" conference?

Yeah, but Donald Rumsfeld has let us 'merkins know that Old Europe is
now irrelevant.  What could be more clear?

--
mertz@  | The specter of free information is haunting the `Net!  All the
gnosis  | powers of IP- and crypto-tyranny have entered into an unholy
.cx     | alliance...ideas have nothing to lose but their chains.  Unite
        | against "intellectual property" and anti-privacy regimes!
-------------------------------------------------------------------------





From max at alcyone.com  Sun Jul 20 19:40:11 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 16:40:11 -0700
Subject: Newbie! I'm a newbie! What's wrong with this program?
References: <5da8e4b3.0307191800.48dc0a6d@posting.google.com> <9a410299.0307201529.4485efa@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3F1B285B.693B3C3C@alcyone.com>

klappnase wrote:

> The "None" comes from:
> 
> > def newLine():
> >   print
> 
> What you meant was:
> def newLine():
>     print "\r"

No, that isn't where it comes from.

> (I must admit that I am not familiar with line endings on windoze, in
> linux it is "\n", on windoze it might be "\r" or "\r\n", I don't know
> for sure, however you don't need this function at all)

If sys.stdout is opened in text mode then '\n' will get translated to
the appropriate form regardless.  So this is a red herring you're after.

> You might try something like:
> 
> print "There are " + str(minHour(x_hours)) + " minutes in " +
> str(x_hours) + " hours"

That would still print exactly the same thing.  The problem is that
minHour is returning None (implicitly).

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ All your slick moves / They were once innocent moves
\__/  Sade



From vze4rx4y at verizon.net  Thu Jul 31 01:27:41 2003
From: vze4rx4y at verizon.net (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 05:27:41 GMT
Subject: Papers on Python
References: <8b36138c.0307281644.f6569ea@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <hN1Wa.3847$cI2.694@nwrdny01.gnilink.net>

"Rick" <rick_hunter357 at hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:8b36138c.0307281644.f6569ea at posting.google.com...
> I have been given an assignment to collect 5 papers on Python and
> write a report on each of the papers. I went ahead and researched and
> collected 9 papers; all from the internet with most of them coming
> from the International Python Conference.
>
> But then I got thinking. What are the 5 (or 6 or 7 or 10) most seminal
> papers in the history of Python in the opinion of members of this
> newgroups?

Hmm, do PEPs count as papers?  They are generally written by experts,
are well referenced, have a standardized format, go through peer review,
have a clear record of their disposition (influence as measured by
actual implementation), and represent an attempt to keep Python on
the cutting edge of technology.



Raymond Hettinger





From maxm at mxm.dk  Sun Jul 13 09:58:41 2003
From: maxm at mxm.dk (Max M)
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 15:58:41 +0200
Subject: Newbie with sort text file question
In-Reply-To: <86d2ca4.0307121146.3deb854a@posting.google.com>
References: <86d2ca4.0307121146.3deb854a@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3F116591.80701@mxm.dk>

stuartc wrote:

> Hi:
> 
> I'm not a total newbie, but I'm pretty green.  I need to sort a text
> file and then get a total for the number of occurances for a part of
> the string. Hopefully, this will explain it better:
> 
> Here's the text file: 
> 
> banana_c \\yellow
> apple_a \\green
> orange_b \\yellow
> banana_d \\green
> orange_a \\orange
> apple_w \\yellow
> banana_e \\green
> orange_x \\yellow
> orange_y \\orange
> 
> I would like two output files:
> 
> 1) Sorted like this, by the fruit name (the name before the dash)
> 2) Then summarized like this, ordered with the highest occurances
> first:
> 
> orange occurs 4
> banana occurs 3
> apple occurs 2
> 
> Total occurances is 9


fruity = """banana_c \\yellow
apple_a \\green
orange_b \\yellow
banana_d \\green
orange_a \\orange
apple_w \\yellow
banana_e \\green
orange_x \\yellow
orange_y \\orange"""

# print sorted list
fruits = fruity.split('\n')
fruits.sort()
print '\n'.join(fruits)
print ''

# count occurences
counter = {}
for fruit in fruits:
     sort_of, apendix = fruit.split('_')
     counter[sort_of] = counter.get(sort_of, 0) + 1

# sort by occurences
decorated = [(counter[key], key) for key in counter.keys()]
decorated.sort()
decorated.reverse()

# print result
sum = 0
for count, sort_of in decorated:
     print sort_of, 'occurs', count
     sum += count

print ''
print 'Total occurances is', sum


regards Max M




From puccio_13 at yahoo.it  Tue Jul  1 04:32:38 2003
From: puccio_13 at yahoo.it (Alessio Pace)
Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 10:32:38 +0200
Subject: DOM with HTML
Message-ID: <3GbMa.4404$FI4.118833@tornado.fastwebnet.it>

Hi, I need to get a sort of DOM from an HTML page that is declared as XHTML
but unfortunately is *not* xhtml valid.. If I try to parse it with
xml.dom.minidom I get error with expat (as I supposed), so I was told to
try in this way, with a "forgiving" html parser:

from xml.dom.ext.reader import HtmlLib
reader = HtmlLib.Reader()
dom = reader.fromUri(url)       # 'url' the web page

FIRST ISSUE:
It seemed to me, reading the source code in
$MY_PYTHON_INSTALLATION_DIR/site-packages/_xmlplus/dom/ext/reader/  , 
that these are 4DOM APIs , so from what I know of python distributions, they
are extra packages, or not? I would like to use *only* libs that are
available in the python2.2 suite, not any extra. 

SECOND ISSUE:
If the above libs were included in python (and so I would continue using
them), how do I print a string representation of a (sub) tree of the DOM? I
tried with .toxml() as in the XML tutorial but that method does not exist
for the FtNode objects that are involved there... Any idea??

Thanks so much for who can help me

-- 
bye
Alessio Pace



From rreagan at attbi.com  Sun Jul  6 22:13:15 2003
From: rreagan at attbi.com (Russell Reagan)
Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 02:13:15 GMT
Subject: anything new on the ternary operator?
References: <mailman.1057533670.9800.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <%G4Oa.22187$Ey6.10119@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net>

"Bob Gailer" <bgailer at alum.rpi.edu> wrote

> I was looking forward to having it.

"Sean Ross" <sross at connectmail.carleton.ca> wrote

> - (if C: x else: y) won the vote

I'm still learning python, so don't flame too much :-)

What is superior about using the proposed ternary operator instead of using
the 'and' and 'or' operators to simulate inline logic?





From ijones at syntaxpolice.org  Tue Jul  1 15:49:35 2003
From: ijones at syntaxpolice.org (Isaac Jones)
Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 15:49:35 -0400
Subject: Haskell distutils-type system
Message-ID: <87d6gu3u40.fsf@syntaxpolice.org>

Hello Python Community.  I bring greetings from the Haskell community
(http://www.haskell.org) ;)

There has been a lot of discussion of late about creating a
grand-unified build & distribution system for "3rd party" Haskell
libraries (those not distributed with the compilers).  Python's
Distutils has come up a few times.  The Haskell Library Infrastructure
Project's web page is just a wiki page which can be found here:
http://www.haskell.org/hawiki/LibraryInfrastructure.  I'm running this
project.

I also wear another hat in that I'm interested in maintaining Debian
packages related to Haskell, so I want to make my job easier by 1)
writing software support, and 2) making it easy for other people to
maintain Debian packages so I don't have to :)

I've read much of the documentation at
http://www.python.org/sigs/distutils-sig/doc/.  I've also made a toy
Python program that uses distutils.  It occurs to me that the issues
that were facing the Python community are strikingly similar to those
facing the Haskell community now, except perhaps for the fact that
there are at least 3 very strong Haskell "compilers" that we want to
support.

One idea for this distribution system, which we're calling the Library
Infrastructure Project, is to create a nice gmake-based build system,
document it, and leave it at that.  Another idea is to use a
Haskell-based Distutils type system.  Now I think that the
Haskell-based system should work out-of-the-box for pure-haskell
modules (no extensions), and maybe wrap a more complex make-based
system where necessary (as when interfacing with C or using
preprocessors).  I definitely want to optimize for the common case of
joe-haskell-programmer wanting a nice way to distribute modules to his
friends, but of course I also want to allow Haskell developers to do
more complex things.

The main issues facing us are:

1) there are a variety of Haskell "compiler" implementations, one of
which is an interpreter :)

2) not all Haskell implementations are available on all architectures
(ghc for instance)

3) just about every Haskell "compiler" and release is
binary-incompatible, (except maybe for nhc98).  That is, if we were
going to distribute binary libraries, we'd need different binaries for
ghc4, ghc5, and ghc6.  Also we'd need different binaries for profiling
versions of the libraries, etc.

For instance, if I were to create a binary package HUnit, which is a
simple case since its pure Haskell code, I would need:
hunit-{hugs,nhc98} hunit-ghc{4,5,6} hunit-ghc{4,5,6}-prof

And whenever a new version of GHC6 is released (for instance), all of
the packages like hunit-ghc6 would need to be updated at the same
time. That doesn't even get into the issues of the wide variety of
preprocessors that are common in this rapidly advancing language[1].
So all of this suggests to me that we want to keep a global list of
installed libraries and recompile them whenever a new Haskell
"compiler" gets installed.  This is why I want an abstraction layer
above make.

So I want to ask you if you can think of any obvious things we should
watch out for if we try to do something similar to what Python is
doing.

Also, there was some mention (in the related "summary of the
Developer's Day session") of Python's distutils creating a Makefile
and wrapping calls to make, is this what you're doing?

Do you / did you find yourself duplicating a lot of what make already
does, ie dependencies, etc, or do you utilize make?

What about configuration, do you typically interface with autoconf
somehow, or does distutils have its own way to figure out
configuration details?

Is a typical distutils setup.py program pretty much like what we see
in the example documentation?  The developer provides some meta-data
and gets a distribution tool?  Is there any support for more complex
stuff like interfacing with external systems?

Does distutils handle dependencies?

I've hacked together something that creates a source tarball and a
basic Debian package from a Haskell version of the distutils-type
metadata.  I can make that available in a few days if anyone is
interested.

peace,

isaac

[1] Haskell is designed to have a "stable" version, Haskell98, and the
compilers come with a variety of extensions so that it is very useful
as a research language as well.




From sanjiv at leopardlogic.com  Tue Jul 29 16:59:35 2003
From: sanjiv at leopardlogic.com (Sanjiv Kumar)
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 13:59:35 -0700
Subject: Fw: Python-2.3c2.tgz installation
Message-ID: <041d01c35614$542b3bc0$4901a8c0@beastjr>


----- Original Message ----- 
From: Sanjiv Kumar 
To: help at python.org 
Cc: Sanjiv Kumar 
Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2003 1:56 PM
Subject: Python-2.3c2.tgz installation


Hi,

I am trying to build and install python-2.3 on a Solaris machine. It give segmentation fault during build process ( I guess during build of extensions to python i.e. running "build_ext").  I am using gcc --version 2.95.2 on SunOS xyz 5.8 Generic_108528-15 sun4u sparc SUNW,Ultra-60 machine. So any hint to get rid of this problem.
 
Best Regards,
=Sanjiv=

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From donn at drizzle.com  Wed Jul 16 00:18:12 2003
From: donn at drizzle.com (Donn Cave)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 04:18:12 -0000
Subject: Library for pop over ssl?
References: <bersm5$88gse$1@ID-165840.news.uni-berlin.de> <Xns93BA29128EBB2JanC@213.118.75.80>
Message-ID: <1058329089.889337@yasure>

Quoth JanC <usenet_spam at janc.invalid>:
| Marco Herrn <herrn at gmx.net> schreef:
|> Hi, I know of poplib, which does what I need except that it doesn't
|> support SSL encryption. imaplib has SSL-support. But I want it with
|> pop3. Is there a library available that does this or do I have to
|> implement it myself?
|
| You can always use stunnel to SSL-ize a "normal" protocol...
| <http://www.stunnel.org/>

You can also SSL-ize a protocol in Python.  I'm surprised to read
that imaplib has SSL support, because I don't see it in the library
module searching by 'ssl' or 'SSL'.  I've had to do it the Python way,
so to speak:  subclass IMAP4, implement a fileobject-like object, etc.
This should be feasible for POP3 as well - a quick look suggests that
it might be enough to copy its __init__ and rewrite it.  The fileobject
emulation is to get pop3.file.readline et al. to call sslobject.read.

	Donn Cave, donn at drizzle.com





From colinsm.spam-me-not at picsel.com  Wed Jul  9 05:20:49 2003
From: colinsm.spam-me-not at picsel.com (Colin S. Miller)
Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 10:20:49 +0100
Subject: UTF-16-LE and split() under MS-Windows XP
Message-ID: <uimgeb.ih5.ln@195.171.216.1>

Hi,

I'm trying to parse a UTF-16-LE encoded file, that contains colon 
delimited records. The data files was generated by XP's Notepad editor, 
and contain a BOM mark. I'm using
Python 2.2.2 (#37, Oct 14 2002, 17:02:34) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on win32


My code works if I change the encoding to UTF-16-BE, however for little 
endian, it dies with

C:\>unicode_test.py
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "C:\unicode_test.py", line 36, in ?
     parse_file("c:\unicode.txt")
   File "C:\unicode_test.py", line 27, in parse_file
     line = file.readline()
   File "c:\Python22\lib\codecs.py", line 330, in readline
     return self.reader.readline(size)
   File "c:\Python22\lib\codecs.py", line 252, in readline
     return self.decode(line, self.errors)[0]
UnicodeError: UTF-16 decoding error: truncated data

C:\>


The source code and unicode data files are attached.
(I know attaching is frowned on, on most groups, but
they are small and I don't want them getting mangled)

Where have I gone wrong, and what is the correct method
to verify the BOM mark?

This snippet
    bom = file.read(2)
    if (bom != "\xff\xfe"):
       print "Data file is not in UTF-16-LE"
       return

failes beause
"UnicodeError: ASCII encoding error: ordinal not in range(128)"


According
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&threadm=3ee7885a_6%40corp.newsgroups.com&rnum=3&prev=/groups%3Fq%3DUnicodeError:%2BUTF-16%2Bdecoding%2Berror:%2Btruncated%2Bdata%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26oe%3DUTF-8%26selm%3D3ee7885a_6%2540corp.newsgroups.com%26rnum%3D3
(comp.lang.python 11 Jun 2003 'UTF-16 encoding line breaks?')
readline() isn't supported on UTF-16, but doesn't give any
alternative suggestions

TIA,
Colin S. Miller

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From owski at hotmail.com  Mon Jul 14 14:44:02 2003
From: owski at hotmail.com (Adam Ruth)
Date: 14 Jul 2003 11:44:02 -0700
Subject: Qualified appology (was Re: anything like C++ references?)
References: <b8c3hvsesjoumiboobml3nsnajtha99mp1@4ax.com> <mailman.1058129901.28248.python-list@python.org> <plk3hv0s1m2egf4s34jo6vjedk0q8r2mu9@4ax.com> <m365m6ul5c.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <1br3hv4434gn7p2pdg1bgtg8dtlak3id3s@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <f0f51c80.0307140708.3c88363d@posting.google.com>

Stephen Horne <intentionally at blank.co.uk> wrote in message news:<1br3hv4434gn7p2pdg1bgtg8dtlak3id3s at 4ax.com>...
> I've said my piece on meanings derived from computer science (and in
> turn from mathematics, as it happens - variables as placeholders for
> values predate electronic computers by quite some time.

The mathematics I'm used to has a very different concept of assignment
than does a static language like C.  Here's why.

In math there are global unchanging objects called numbers, 1, 2, 3,
etc.  If I have 2 variables, x and y and they both equal 500, then
they both are names bound to the value 500.  They are not each copies
of the value 500, math has no such concept, there is only one 500.

C, and most static languages, have the concept of memory location,
which doesn't exist in math.  In C a variable is bound to a memory
location which contains a value, not like math where the variable
itself contains the value.  Therefore I can have two variables, x and
y, that point to their own distinct copy of 500 and when I assign a
value, it copies the 500 into the memory location bound to x.

Now, what if I have x and y bound the the same memory location?  If I
change X I also change Y.  That's not how mathematics works.  If X and
Y are to have to same value, they do so because of some relation to
their meaning, and they are both bound to 500, not simply because I
changed the value of X.  This is a concept that simply doesn't exist
in mathematics.

Python is more like the math form.  There is only one instance of the
number 500 and a name (variable) is bound to it or it isn't.  To
change the value of 500, then I must rebind the name, exactly in
mathematics.  However, Python differs from math in that math doesn't
have mutable values (well it may when you get into real complex
calculus, I don't know, never been there).

Adam Ruth



From thewrights at ozemail.com.au  Thu Jul 17 09:39:46 2003
From: thewrights at ozemail.com.au (thewrights at ozemail.com.au)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 23:39:46 +1000
Subject: Co-routines
References: <g7xRa.305$fF.9914@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au> <3F16A34A.5742F54F@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <pBxRa.308$fF.9875@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au>

"Peter Hansen" <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message
news:3F16A34A.5742F54F at engcorp.com...
> thewrights at ozemail.com.au wrote:
> >
> > I have an application in which I want the users to be able to create
python
> > functions:
> >
> > def f1():
> >     print "1-1"
> >     print "1-2"
> >     print "1-3"
> >
> > def f2():
> >     print "2-1"
> >     print "2-2"
> >     print "3-3"
> >
> > and when my application runs, I want to execute these functions in
> > "lock-step", so that the output looks like:
> >
> >     1-1
> >     2-2
> >     1-2
> >     2-2
> >     1-3
> >     2-3
>
> I think the problem is underspecified.  What do you mean by the quoted
> phrase "lock-step"?  Your example includes only simple print statements,
> which generate output to sys.stdout.  What are you really trying to
> accomplish?  Do you want individual bytecodes to be executed one at a
> time from a series of functions?  Do you want any output to be interlaced
> on a line-by-line basis?  Any call to any I/O routine?  Need more detail.
>
> -Peter

OK. Thanks.  I was just giving some simple examples...but I hope this is
better:

>From the python grammar:

    funcdef    ::= "def" funcname "(" [parameter_list] ")" ":" suite

I want the statements in <suite> to be executed on a statement by statement
basis, with no particular restrictions on *what* those statements are. It's
the execution stepping I'm interested in... the I/O in my example was just
that. I understand that there will be all the problems on contention/race
etc (just like if the functions were going in separate threads)







From simon_place at whsmithnet.co.uk  Sun Jul  6 13:40:28 2003
From: simon_place at whsmithnet.co.uk (simon place)
Date: Sun, 06 Jul 2003 18:40:28 +0100
Subject: PEP idea. ( removing __slots__ )
In-Reply-To: <m3wuev20jt.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
References: <3f073594$1_2@news1.vip.uk.com> <be8hr1$8eh$06$1@news.t-online.com> <3f083043$1_3@news1.vip.uk.com> <m3wuev20jt.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <3f085fa7_3@news1.vip.uk.com>

i can't think of a point for __slots__ except to save the overhead of a 
dict, this is why you DON'T HAVE a __dict__ when __slots__ is defined.

__slots__ should generally be used to improve the performance/footprint 
of small/transient classes, ( it also prevents new instance variables 
but this appears to be more of a side effect.)

The point of the combining is to simplify, you know, based on the idea 
that keeping the language simply ( and logical ) aids comprehension.




From jane.doe at acme.com  Tue Jul 29 14:11:30 2003
From: jane.doe at acme.com (Jane Doe)
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 20:11:30 +0200
Subject: Web tool kit : pro - cons ?
References: <3f23003f$0$266$ba620e4c@reader0.news.skynet.be> <3f24f3f7@shknews01>
Message-ID: <12edivkt08vec9epm7dk5r0q9qlb1kgej6@4ax.com>

On Mon, 28 Jul 2003 10:59:05 +0100, "Remi Delon" <remi at cherrypy.org>
wrote:
>Having said that, I think that CherryPy definitely meets your
>requirements... (sorry, I couldn't help saying it :-)))

I second that. CherryPy is the Python framework that was the easiest
to grasp as a newbie.

Other frameworks that look similar to CherryPy (ie. URLs are actually
calls to classes and methods) are WebWare + Cheetah, Skunkweb. If
someone knows of others, I'm all ears :-)

JD.



From woooee at yahoo.com  Thu Jul  3 15:58:16 2003
From: woooee at yahoo.com (Curly Joe)
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 12:58:16 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Building Python - how to set include and lib paths?
Message-ID: <20030703195816.7774.qmail@web20503.mail.yahoo.com>

Lack Mr G M wrote (snipped):
I'm trying to build (compile and link) Python2.2.3,
However, I need to indicate where it can find various
library and header files for other extensions which I
have already built (things like ssl etc.).

There are two simple ways that I know of:
1 - add it to, and export the PYTHONPATH variable -
mine is in ~/.bash_profile on a Gentoo Linux box. 
Your shell and/or profile file name may be different.
2 - probably not what you want, but
.../python/site_python should be in your PYTHONPATH
and so you could place you programs there.

There probably is a way to compile it in, but I prefer
to use the PYTHONPATH solution as it is simple and
straight forward. HTH

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
http://sbc.yahoo.com




From postmaster-smtp-am at msxssc.shell.com  Thu Jul  3 10:12:21 2003
From: postmaster-smtp-am at msxssc.shell.com (postmaster-smtp-am at msxssc.shell.com)
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 09:12:21 -0500
Subject: Delivery Report (failure) for RM186061@shellus.com
Message-ID: <E19Y4jb-0005id-00@mail.python.org>

This report relates to your message:
Subject: Re: Movie,
Message-ID: <200307031402.JAA04039 at mailgate1.shellus.com>,
To: <RM186061 at shellus.com>
	of Thu, 3 Jul 2003 08:54:56 -0500


Your message was not delivered to RM186061 at shellus.com
	for the following reason:
        A problem with the message content was found 	
        Infected with  the W32/Sobig.e at MM virus !!!




The header of the original message is at the end

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From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Mon Jul  7 18:47:31 2003
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 17:47:31 -0500
Subject: getting a submatrix of all true
In-Reply-To: <m2isqel438.fsf@mother.paradise.lost> (John Hunter's message of
 "Mon, 07 Jul 2003 11:00:11 -0500")
References: <mailman.1057173484.29754.python-list@python.org>
	<be0b84$89a$0@216.39.172.122>
	<52fe159d.0307041016.4dcb4a5c@posting.google.com>
	<m2isqel438.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>
Message-ID: <m2fzli7y4c.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

>>>>> "John" == John Hunter <jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu> writes:

    John> I think I may adapt your algorithm to terminate when the
    John> percent missing falls below some threshold, removing the
    John> requirement that *all* missing values be removed.  This will
    John> drop the worst offenders observation or variable wise.  Then
    John> I can use a regression approach to fill in the remaining
    John> ones.


I think I have found a major improvement on your algorithm Jon, by
changing the rule which determines whether to drop a row or a column
after you have found the worst offenders for each.  The original
approach was to keep the one with the most valid (zero) elements,
which makes sense since that is the quantity you are trying to
maximize.  But consider the case where there is correlation so that
true values on a row or column tend to be correlated with other true
values on that row or column, as in

X = 1 0 
    1 0
    1 0
    1 0
    1 0
    0 0 
    0 0

Your algorithm would keep the column, since keeping a row gives you
only one zero whereas keeping a column gives you 2.  By looking at the
*fraction* of ones in the worst offending row and column, you can do
much better.  By deleting the row or column with the greatest fraction
of ones, you reduce the likelihood that you'll encounter a one in
future iterations.  Using this approach, I was able to find a 893x67
submatrix with a score of 59831 versus the 462x81 submatrix with a
score of 37422.

I have also added thresholds to the code, so that you can terminate
with a fraction of missing values remaining.  By setting the
thresholds to zero, you get the special case of no missing values.

The example below also includes a no-copy optimization that Jon
emailed me off list.  The algorithm run time for a 1073x82 matrix is
around 30ms on my 700MHz machine.

John Hunter

from __future__ import division
import sys, time
from urllib import urlopen
from Numeric import *

def trim_missing(a, thresh=(0.05,0.05) ):
    """
    a is a numObservations by numVariables boolean matrix

    thresh = (othresh, vthresh) are the observation and variable
    thresholds that trigger deletion

      remove any rows where percent missing vars > vthresh
      remove any cols where percent missing obs > othresh

    This is done iteratively rechecking the percent missing on each
    iteration or row or col removal, with the largest offender removed
    on each iteration

    return value is score, rowInd, colInd where the two ind arrays
    are the indices of the rows and cols that were kept

    """
    othresh, vthresh = thresh # theshold for deletion
    dr=zeros(a.shape[0])   # Arrays to note deleted rows...
    dc=zeros(a.shape[1])   # ... and columns
    sizeleft=list(a.shape) # Remaining dimensions
    sr=sum(a,1)         # Column scores = ij's to remove 
    sc=sum(a,0)         # Row scores
    while 1:               # Keep deleting till none left    
        mr=argmax(sr)       # index highest row score
        mc=argmax(sc)       # index highest column score
        fracRow = sr[mr]/sizeleft[1]
        fracCol = sc[mc]/sizeleft[0]

        if fracRow<=vthresh and fracCol<=othresh: 
            break            # stop when missing criteria are satisfied
        if fracRow-vthresh<fracCol-othresh:
            sr=sr-a[:,mc]    # rows reduced by contents of column
            sc[mc]=0         # sum of column now zero
            dc[mc]=1         # tags column as deleted
            sizeleft[1]-=1
        else:   
            # deleting the row
            sc=sc-a[mr,:]    # columns reduced by contents of row
            sr[mr]=0         # sum of row is now zero
            dr[mr]=1         # tags row as deleted
            sizeleft[0]-=1

    score=(a.shape[0]-sum(dr))*(a.shape[1]-sum(dc))
    dr=compress(dr==0,range(a.shape[0]))  # gives return format of  
    dc=compress(dc==0,range(a.shape[1]))  # optimrcs posted by Bengt

    return score, dr, dc
    

url = 'http://nitace.bsd.uchicago.edu:8080/summer/jdh/missing.dat'
L = [ [ int(val) for val in line.split()] 
      for line in urlopen(url).readlines()]
a= array(L)
start = time.time()
score, goodRows, goodCols = trim_missing(a, thresh=(0.0, 0.0))
end = time.time()
print end-start
print 'Original size', a.shape
print 'Number of non-zeros in', sum(ravel(a))
print 'Reduced size', len(goodRows), len(goodCols)
print 'Score', score







From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Tue Jul  1 14:28:38 2003
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 1 Jul 2003 14:28:38 -0400
Subject: Suggesting for overloading the assign operator
References: <6f03c4a5.0306301931.3f15fbb7@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bdsjsm$6bl$1@panix3.panix.com>

In article <6f03c4a5.0306301931.3f15fbb7 at posting.google.com>,
Rim <rimbalaya at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>I have been thinking about how to overload the assign operation '='.
>In many cases, I wanted to provide users of my packages a natural
>interface to the extended built-in types I created for them, but the
>assign operator is always forcing them to "type cast" or coerce the
>result when they do a simple assign for the purpose of setting the
>value of a variable. Borrowing an example from this newgroup, the
>second assignment below ereases all Currency knowledge from variable
>'c', when the user only wanted to update the value of c, not its type:
>
>c=Currency(5)
>c=7
>
>I fully understand the workaround of doing c=Curreny(7) instead, but
>users don't want to be bothered with that.

If you have users who don't want to learn Python, give them a special
Python-like language.  I won't say it's trivial, but it's not that hard.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

Usenet is not a democracy.  It is a weird cross between an anarchy and a
dictatorship.  



From staschuk at telusplanet.net  Thu Jul 31 07:19:46 2003
From: staschuk at telusplanet.net (Steven Taschuk)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 05:19:46 -0600
Subject: Is there a standard module library function to access /etc/passwd or /etc/group
In-Reply-To: <bg9u4b$dc8$1@slb2.atl.mindspring.net>; from adalke@mindspring.com on Wed, Jul 30, 2003 at 08:19:48PM -0600
References: <16469f07.0307300416.351ba776@posting.google.com> <m2vftkw5um.fsf@host200-null.null.bellsouth.net> <16469f07.0307301458.59e73736@posting.google.com> <bg9u4b$dc8$1@slb2.atl.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <20030731051946.A11888@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>

Quoth Andrew Dalke:
  [...]
> When you're stuck because you don't know which module something
> might be in (eg, I was just looking for XMLRPC server code in
> xmlrpclib - wrong place!), try the full index at
>   http://python.org/doc/current/lib/genindex.html

And don't forget the full-text searching capabilities at pydoc.org.

-- 
Steven Taschuk             "The world will end if you get this wrong."
staschuk at telusplanet.net     -- "Typesetting Mathematics -- User's Guide",
                                 Brian Kernighan and Lorrinda Cherry




From grante at visi.com  Wed Jul 16 11:15:47 2003
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 16 Jul 2003 15:15:47 GMT
Subject: Python Quiz
References: <mailman.1058359706.27031.python-list@python.org> <bf3kb4$2gh$1@news.wrc.xerox.com> <3F156952.AD24AAB8@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <3f156c23$0$166$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>

In article <3F156952.AD24AAB8 at engcorp.com>, Peter Hansen wrote:

>>> Of course, I'm not suggesting that whitespace is *meaningless*
>>> in Python outside of indentation... Python is much like C (and
>>> many, many others) in that regard. 
>> 
>> Note that Fortran (at least historic Fortran - not sure about
>> those upstart 9x variants) is *not* among the "many, many
>> others." One can write any of
>> 
>>         DO 10 I = something
>>         DO10I = something
>>         D O 1 0 I = something
>> 
>> and leave it to the compiler to figure out whether you're
>> starting a DO-loop or assigning a value to the variable DO10I.
> 
> If you are saying that you leave it up to the compiler to
> decide how to interpret any of the three above statements, then
> clearly whitespace is *not* meaningless.

IIRC (it's been a _long_ time) it's not up to the compiler. All
three of the above are required to be treated the same by the
compiler (a DO loop).

> It might be compiler-dependent or something, but no
> meaningless.  Unless you are saying that on a given FORTRAN
> compiler, only one possible interpretation of all three
> statements above is possible.

I don't think it's "on a given FORTRAN compiler", I think it's
more like "according to the language definition for FORTRAN IV".

> That would be surprising.

Yup. I found a lot of things in FORTRAN surprising.  Python is
so much nicer in that respect.  Though I was recently surprised
that the remove() method for lists uses "==" and not "is" to
determine what to remove.  It's documented that it works that
way. But, it wasn't what I excpected, and it took me a while to
figure out that it was using my class's __cmp__ method rather
than the object ID.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  Go on, EMOTE! I
                                  at               was RAISED on thought
                               visi.com            balloons!!



From bignose-hates-spam at and-benfinney-does-too.id.au  Thu Jul 31 21:01:22 2003
From: bignose-hates-spam at and-benfinney-does-too.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: 1 Aug 2003 10:51:22 +0950
Subject: A very simple question
References: <vijfpqokte2s60@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <slrnbijg4i.ejq.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>

On Thu, 31 Jul 2003 17:13:36 -0800, Arnaldo Riquelme wrote:
> I'm getting familiar with Python and I have a simple question:
> 
> class abc:
>     x = 100
>     y = 200
>     z = 300
> 
> 
> ac = abc()
> 
> Shouldn't I have a attribute named __dict__ for ac that contains a
> dictionary of all the variables?

No.  The attributes x, y, and z are associated with the class, not any
particular instance.  (As your experiment with abc.__dict__ shows.)

If you want attributes that are bound to a particular instance, set them
in the class's __init__() method.

-- 
 \           "It ain't so much the things we don't know that get us in |
  `\     trouble.  It's the things we know that ain't so."  -- Artemus |
_o__)                                  Ward (1834-67), U.S. journalist |
Ben Finney <http://bignose.squidly.org/>



From amk at amk.ca  Tue Jul  8 21:46:53 2003
From: amk at amk.ca (A.M. Kuchling)
Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 20:46:53 -0500
Subject: Python vs PHP
References: <mailman.1057574470.1750.python-list@python.org> <kmolgv4mp12o71ocion7ra0m2s9fcrqjdk@4ax.com> <slrnbglqp8.os1.jon+usenet@snowy.squish.net> <h7rlgvkogjr3t8geb36v6jjk4u5n9cdm2s@4ax.com> <slrnbgltd7.os1.jon+usenet@snowy.squish.net> <moulgv8ehi6680j6to1ai6tlmopm0srons@4ax.com> <slrnbgm1jg.sv7.jon+usenet@snowy.squish.net>
Message-ID: <K6GcnTvaKdGQ6ZaiRTvUqA@speakeasy.net>

On 8 Jul 2003 17:59:12 GMT, 
	Jon Ribbens <jon+usenet at unequivocal.co.uk> wrote:
> I don't understand why you keep saying "CGI is not an option" when
> nobody has suggested that you use it.

Jon, there's no point in debating Afanasiy about CGI.  He's convinced
packages for Python web programming support are inadequate (*all* of them),
is unable to explain what the problem is or what his requirements are, and
doesn't seem to really understand the subject (e.g. thinking FastCGI is
basically the same as regular CGI).  Ignoring him is the best course.

--amk




From rastm2 at aol.commorespam  Tue Jul 22 03:07:01 2003
From: rastm2 at aol.commorespam (Raymond Arthur St. Marie II of III )
Date: 22 Jul 2003 07:07:01 GMT
Subject: List of declared variables in interactive Python session?
References: <bff9g0$l6p$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <20030722030701.23831.00000292@mb-m27.aol.com>

Bengt Richter  informs Ray St.Marie that...

>I sometimes find it handy to leave out underscore items:   
>
 >>> [name for name in dir() if not name.startswith('_')]
> []
 >>> x=123
 >>> [name for name in dir() if not name.startswith('_')]
> ['name', 'x']     <<<_see Below
>
>vs.
>
 >>> dir()
> ['__builtins__', '__doc__', '__name__', 'name', 'x']
>
>
>Regards,
>Bengt Richter

Cool and now I do too ...you ... tip monster you !   

Thanks - (giggling with that "you b at stard" grin on my face) 
(Why is it the simplest things make ya laugh.)

But this -  the true beauty in your example is that... 
You didn't enter an iterater 'name' into the dir ( ) 
before you displayed it. Nice trick.
In fact you never have to in a dir( ) call.
The only reason 'name'     <<<_see above
is in the dir( ) now is because
this is your second for loop. 
I mean to say that the dir( )
was displayed first the first time 
then 'name' was added --- am I right?
Now it's there for the second call. 

Yet in the examples that ...

<I've lost the original thread and 
don't have the 2 gentilmen's names that started it>

...that they were working on, it was pretty obvious that 
you had to have an iterater variable established first for the 
vars( ) call.

If I don't put the ' v '  in the dir( ) before 
the call to vars( ) first I get the Traceback
because I'm changing the size of the dictionary
>>> for d in dir( ): print d 
... __builtins__    # i Know i know ive learned nothing sorry
__doc__
__name__
name
pywin
>>> for v in vars( ): print v
... 
name                # okay  there's the first variable  and then

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<interactive input>", line 1, in ?
RuntimeError: dictionary changed size during iteration
>>> 

And the point to the second gentilman in the thread was 
that his call to  

>>> for v in vars( ).copy( ): print v

only works because the call to copy( ) does this first just
like declaring the ' v ' in my example -- only it a one liner. :>)

When I was new at this and, dir( ) and vars( ) were something
I learned early on, It didn't seam that intuitive to me.

........and so i go on and on and on about something only
I could find intersting, and I shall never more on this subject
Sorry Y'all.

Ray St. Marie
Stating the obvious since birth... Whaaaa.



From carsten at gehling.dk  Tue Jul 22 04:31:01 2003
From: carsten at gehling.dk (Carsten Gehling)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 10:31:01 +0200
Subject: SV: How to save web pages for offline reading?
In-Reply-To: <cb035744.0307212238.2ea9c46@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <BHEFKIOIMEDGILGDACKDCECHDNAA.carsten@gehling.dk>

> -----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
> Fra: python-list-admin at python.org
> [mailto:python-list-admin at python.org]P? vegne af Will Stuyvesant
> Sendt: 22. juli 2003 08:38
> Til: python-list at python.org
> Emne: Re: How to save web pages for offline reading?

> There is no "man wget" on Windows :-)
> And unfortunately the GNU Windows port of wget I have (version
> 1-5-3-1) does not have that --page-requisites parameter.

Well since you ARE on Windows:

Open the page in Internet Explorer, choose "File" and "Save As...". Voil?!
You've now saved all necessary files.

> I thought this whole thing would be easy with all those Python
> internet modules in the standard distro: httplib, urllib, urllib2,
> FancyURLxxx etc.  Being able to download a "complete" page *from
> Python source* would be very nice for my particular application.

Well it's doable with those libraries, but you have to put your own meat on
the bones.

1) Use httplib to get the page first.
2) Parse it for all "src" attributes, and get the supporting files. The
parsin can be done with a html-parser library (can't remember the name) or
with regular expressions. REMEMBER: All paths must be corrected to paths
relative to the main document.

- Carsten





From bgailer at alum.rpi.edu  Thu Jul 10 11:28:46 2003
From: bgailer at alum.rpi.edu (Bob Gailer)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 09:28:46 -0600
Subject: Calling Excel module functions from python [repost]
In-Reply-To: <d3c9c04.0307100142.a49fd81@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20030710092612.0275eea8@66.28.54.253>

At 02:42 AM 7/10/2003 -0700, Mark Carter wrote:

>In Excel, I have a module named modCSV which has a function named
>SaveSheet(), which I want to be able to call from python. How do I do
>it?
>
>I've opened the workbook containing the module, and executed the code:
>
>from win32com.client import Dispatch
>xlApp = Dispatch("Excel.Application")
>xlApp.Visible = 1
>wb = xlApp.ActiveWorkbook
>wbc = wb.VBProject.VBComponents("modCSV")
>wbc.SaveSheet()
>
>but I get the error message:
>
>Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "C:\Documents and Settings\mcarter\My
>Documents\cvs-tree\project\2195\code\temp.py", line 17, in ?
>     wbc.SaveSheet()
>   File "C:\Python22\lib\site-packages\win32com\client\dynamic.py",
>line 454, in __getattr__
>     raise AttributeError, "%s.%s" % (self._username_, attr)
>AttributeError: <unknown>.SaveSheet
>
>It apparently likes the line wbc = ... , but then hates
>wbc.SaveSheet(). *Sigh*

To call a function in a VBA module:

wbc.Run('SaveSheet')


Bob Gailer
bgailer at alum.rpi.edu
303 442 2625
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From hokiegal99 at hotmail.com  Tue Jul 22 19:57:06 2003
From: hokiegal99 at hotmail.com (hokiegal99)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 19:57:06 -0400
Subject: lists and files question
Message-ID: <3F1DCF52.7040607@hotmail.com>

This code:

import os, re, string
setpath = raw_input("Enter the path: ")
for root, dirs, files in os.walk(setpath):
	id = re.compile('Microsoft Excel Worksheet')
	fname = files
#	print fname
	content = open(fname[1],'rb')

Produces this error:

IOError: Error[2] No such file or directory 'Name of File'

The strange thing is that it correctly identifies the file that it says 
doesn't exist. Could someone explain why this is?

Also, is "files" a nested list? It looks like one, but I'm not entirely 
sure as I'm still relatively new to Python. Thanks!




From gh at ghaering.de  Fri Jul 25 10:45:19 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 16:45:19 +0200
Subject: CGI "download" prompt?
In-Reply-To: <77dd287a.0307250619.7c2ec441@posting.google.com>
References: <77dd287a.0307240632.40c6c309@posting.google.com>
	<3f205f06$0$49115$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
	<77dd287a.0307250619.7c2ec441@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3F21427F.9030004@ghaering.de>

Daniel Orner wrote:
>>Try setting the Content-Type: header to something other than text/html,
>>such as:   application/octet-stream [...]

Erhm. Let's suppose you want to send an RTF file and have the browser 
pop up a save dialog with a certain filename preconfigured:

Then send these headers:

Content-Type: application/rtf
Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=mydocument.rtf

-- Gerhard




From bogus at antispam.com  Mon Jul 21 01:13:23 2003
From: bogus at antispam.com (Alex)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 01:13:23 -0400
Subject: PythonQuestions forum - does it exist?
Message-ID: <pan.2003.07.21.05.13.23.117151@antispam.com>

Hello,

I'm wondering if there is a help forum for Python on the web similar
to LinuxQuestions.org?


Alex



From stuart at bmsi.com  Mon Jul  7 10:24:07 2003
From: stuart at bmsi.com (Stuart D. Gathman)
Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 10:24:07 -0400
Subject: Frustration with spurious posts.
References: <mailman.1057420812.18141.python-list@python.org> <3F06FD11.967D8D8A@hotmail.com> <Xns93B02F2F82A37JanC@213.119.4.244> <3F081C10.8CF6B57@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2003.07.07.14.24.07.354246.20736@bmsi.com>

On Sun, 06 Jul 2003 08:54:40 -0400, Alan Kennedy wrote:

> But if an email is sent from an individual to an individual, then such
> "you sent me a virus!" emails can be very useful information. It's only
> when an email address is associated with lots of subscribers that it
> becomes a problem. Or, as you pointed out, when the from address is
> forged.

The from address is always forged.

I get literally hundreds of bounces daily from various viruses.  My
Bayesian filter had not yet learned to distinguish them from real bounces.
I did not send any of them.  For the bounces that include the original email in
an rfc822 attachment, this can be verified by looking at the 'Recieved'
headers.  It never went anywhere near my system.  I don't even run Windows
- and these are Windows viruses.

I also receive email threatening bodily harm for sending spam.  A less
clueless admin sent me email saying that he had contacted my ISP and had
my account cancelled - and included a ticket # to prove it.  I looked at
the ticket, and there was indeed an account cancelled at some ISP I'd
never heard of.  Since the admin was smart enough to look at the headers
to track down the real ISP, you would think he would be smart enough to
realize that any From headers in spam are completely bogus.

Sending any kind of reply to a spam or viral email is clueless and
counterproductive under any circumstances.  All it accomplishes is
annoying yet another innocent bystander.



From max at alcyone.com  Mon Jul 28 14:57:05 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 11:57:05 -0700
Subject: Fastest way to count your iterations?
References: <a9e86706.0307281041.395e3bc8@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3F257201.9A697F3A@alcyone.com>

Tracy Ruggles wrote:

> If you're writing a simple script and you want to give an update of
> its progress...  Is this the fastest way to do it (assuming that what
> you're iterating through is very, very long and the time to process
> each item is relatively short)...
> 
> <code>
> 
> def counter(items, f, sep=1000):
>         i = 0
>         for item in items:
>                 f(item)
>                 i += 1
>                 if i % sep == 0:
>                         print i
> 
> </code>
> 
> [ is the modulus operator the quickest way to find out if you're
> really at the 1000th item? ]

The modulus operator is typically pretty expensive, though I don't know
with the object creation overhead in Python it would be all that
significant (I haven't checked).  If you don't need to keep track of the
total count (that is, you're just maintaining i for the purposes of
determining when it is a multiple of sep), then you can simply count i
up to sep and then reset it:

	i = 0
	for ...:
	    i += 1
	    if i == sep:
	        ... do something every `step' iterations ...
	        i = 0

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ I would rather understand one cause than be king of Persia.
\__/  Democritus



From glenfant at NOSPAM.bigfoot.com  Wed Jul  2 06:27:27 2003
From: glenfant at NOSPAM.bigfoot.com (Gilles Lenfant)
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 12:27:27 +0200
Subject: PyQT and Mandrake 9.1
References: <bdrsbq$2a8d$1@biggoron.nerim.net> <bdrug5$vdeid$1@ID-174077.news.dfncis.de> <bds25p$nql$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk> <bds7ig$vqb2g$1@ID-174077.news.dfncis.de> <bds9l0$1bj$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk> <bdsi0k$10jkr7$2@ID-192111.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <bdub91$199f$1@biggoron.nerim.net>

mailto:gilles at pilotsystems.net
"Michael 'Mickey' Lauer" <mickey at tm.informatik.uni-frankfurt.de> a ?crit
dans le message de news: bdsi0k$10jkr7$2 at ID-192111.news.dfncis.de...
> Politics and polemics aside - how 'bout an attempt to help the OP?
>
> Did you install libqt3-devel ?

Didn't find it in the 3 CDs of Mandrake 9.1

But I found rpm packages at sourceforge

http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=61057


Thanks

--Gilles




From steve at ferg.org  Sat Jul  5 04:12:26 2003
From: steve at ferg.org (Stephen Ferg)
Date: 5 Jul 2003 01:12:26 -0700
Subject: ANN: Python language slideshow presentation
References: <b16e4ef7.0307040728.69b2f367@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <b16e4ef7.0307050012.5580b5c6@posting.google.com>

Thanks for the feedback!  

I've fixed a number of reported errors and infelicities.  It is not
perfect, but it is much better!

-- Steve



From ianb at colorstudy.com  Tue Jul  8 13:42:45 2003
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: 08 Jul 2003 12:42:45 -0500
Subject: path module
In-Reply-To: <r01050400-1026-0CFC2A59B12C11D7A953003065D5E7E4@[10.0.0.23]>
References: <r01050400-1026-0CFC2A59B12C11D7A953003065D5E7E4@[10.0.0.23]>
Message-ID: <1057686165.3738.54.camel@lothlorien>

On Tue, 2003-07-08 at 05:07, Just van Rossum wrote:
> > Several operators are reused
> > for different meanings, % in particular comes to mind, this doesn't
> > seem that bad.  I like the way it looks and feels.  It feels better
> > to me than using + for string concatenation ;) -- maybe because
> > division is not all that common an operation anyway.
> 
> I tend to think that this whole discussion shows that _maybe_ it's not
> such a good idea to subclass str/unicode after all. (Aside: path.py
> taught me about the existence of os.path.supports_unicode_filenames in
> 2.3, but at least on my platform (OSX) it has the wrong value. I opened
> a bug, #767645.)
> 
> Some string methods are handy on paths, such as .endswith(), while
> others are not, like .upper() or .splitlines(). Other string method
> names or operators would make sense for paths, but -- as you say -- are
> out of the question since their meaning would be quite different, eg.
> .join() and +.

True... and as I think about it, a lot of the actually interesting
string methods wouldn't be performed on the entire path anyway.  Things
like path.name.startswith('img'), or path.ext == 'jpg'.  You could also
do things like override equals, so that two Windows paths would match
case-insensitively, and other things that would be bad to change in a
string subclass.

> I find overloading / unneccesary, since it's not like you'll have to
> write
> 
>   a.join(b).join(c).join(d)
> 
> but rather
> 
>   a.join(b, c, d)
> 
> which I don't think is all that bad.

And you could reuse the join method, which is better than joinpath (but
joinpath is better than overriding string's join, if you are subclassing
string).

> Btw. long ago (2001, before Jason's path module) I posted a balloon to
> python-dev about this subject:
> http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2001-August/016663.html
> 
> There was hardly any response, and Guido said we wasn't too enthusiastic
> about the idea, so we might have to work hard to pull this off ;-).
> 
> Also, with unicode, Guido's suggestion that any object that implements
> __str__ can be used with open() seems to be no longer true. At least I
> can't get it to work.

You don't want to use open() anyway, that breaks the possibility of
alternate filesystems.  There should be an open method, like
path.open('w').  Then a URL object (called maybe url?) would also have
an open method, that obviously would do a much different thing.  (And
just as I'm thinking of a url class, things like .exists() would be
surprisingly useful, even though urllib doesn't expose these file-like
operations very directly)

The only other way is if a new magic method -- __open__ -- came into
being.  That would be interesting (where "interesting" can be read
several ways ;).

  Ian






From gelbardn at tripwire.com  Mon Jul 28 17:08:52 2003
From: gelbardn at tripwire.com (Nate Gelbard)
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 14:08:52 -0700
Subject: minidom xml attribute creation
Message-ID: <CFDDEB3B870EE346BB583D2B0420F5AC4930F7@seabass.tripwire.com>

Hello,

I have python 2.2.3 on my RH 7.2 box. When I create an XML Element and
set an attribute on that element, the name of the attribute is truncated
to one letter. On a RH 7.3 box, this error does not occur. I thought my
libexpat version was old, so I upgraded and relinked python, but this
did not help.

Here is a code example:

from xml.dom.minidom import Document

class Test:
        def __init__(self):
                self.doc = Document()

        def toXml(self):
                root = self.doc.createElement("root")
                root.setAttribute("name","bug")
                self.doc.appendChild(root)              
                print self.doc.toprettyxml()


if __name__ == "__main__":
        t = Test()
        t.toXml()

Output:
<?xml version="1.0" ?>
<root a="bug"/>

The output should be:
<?xml version="1.0" ?>
<root name="bug"/>

Any ideas?
Thanks

--( Nate Gelbard, QA Engineer     
--( Tripwire, Inc., The Integrity Assurance Company




From peter at engcorp.com  Wed Jul 16 11:03:46 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 11:03:46 -0400
Subject: Python Quiz
References: <mailman.1058359706.27031.python-list@python.org> <bf3kb4$2gh$1@news.wrc.xerox.com>
Message-ID: <3F156952.AD24AAB8@engcorp.com>

Mark Jackson wrote:
> 
> Michael Chermside <mcherm at mcherm.com> writes:
> > Of course, I'm not suggesting that whitespace is *meaningless* in Python
> > outside of indentation... Python is much like C (and many, many others) in
> > that regard. 
> 
> Note that Fortran (at least historic Fortran - not sure about those
> upstart 9x variants) is *not* among the "many, many others."  One can
> write any of
> 
>         DO 10 I = something
>         DO10I = something
>         D O 1 0 I = something
> 
> and leave it to the compiler to figure out whether you're starting a
> DO-loop or assigning a value to the variable DO10I.

If you are saying that you leave it up to the compiler to decide how
to interpret any of the three above statements, then clearly whitespace
is *not* meaningless.  It might be compiler-dependent or something,
but no meaningless.  Unless you are saying that on a given FORTRAN
compiler, only one possible interpretation of all three statements
above is possible.  That would be surprising.

-Peter



From iambrenNOSPAM at sympatico.ca  Tue Jul 22 17:51:02 2003
From: iambrenNOSPAM at sympatico.ca (Bren)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 17:51:02 -0400
Subject: Problem building extension sample with Python 2.2.3
References: <da3bb005.0307211216.22425dec@posting.google.com> <7h34r1eznbq.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <q5crhvgr19rrfgjqnujn8im1i64ijbgikj@4ax.com>

On Tue, 22 Jul 2003 13:53:53 GMT, Michael Hudson <mwh at python.net>
wrote:

>iambren at sympatico.ca (Bren) writes:
>
>> Hi, 
>> 
>> I'm trying to build the sample extension file from
>> http://www.python.org/doc/current/ext/simpleExample.html.
>> 
>> I get a linker error:
>> 
>> Linking...
>> spam.obj : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol
>> __imp__Py_InitModule4TraceRefs
>> 
>> Also, I find it necessary to ignore python22_d.lib and link
>> python22.lib explicitly when I make a Debug build.
>
>There's your problem, I think.  You seem to be trying to build a debug
>version of your module against a release version of Python.  This
>won't work.

Thanks, that worked!

Now, I am working on embedding python in a C/C++ app, so I would like
very much to be able to debug the code in C/C++ functions when they
are called by Python.  Is it possible I could get a debug version of
this lib/dll somewhere to let me do this?  Is there a python22_d.lib?






-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
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From skip at pobox.com  Tue Jul  8 09:45:36 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 08:45:36 -0500
Subject: Shared vs static link performance hit --and Windows?
In-Reply-To: <k7clgvoqjur1f10mosue3os74vv7nd34hi@4ax.com>
References: <k7clgvoqjur1f10mosue3os74vv7nd34hi@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <16138.51968.519912.647940@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    Christos> ....  I did some speed comparisons, and pystone reported ~6090
    Christos> pystones for the shared and ~7680 pystones for the (default)
    Christos> static build.

    Christos> This is quite a difference, and while I do know what impact
    Christos> position independent code has on libraries, this was the first
    Christos> time I measured a difference of 25% in performance...

It's possible that the Python interpreter makes (percentage-wise) more calls
through the indirect links of the position-independent code.  We know it
makes lots of function calls (often to extension modules) to implement its
functionality, so it's quite possible that the interpreter takes a much
larger hit than your typical C program would.

Skip





From mwh at python.net  Tue Jul 22 09:48:28 2003
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 13:48:28 GMT
Subject: properties + types, implementing meta-class desciptors elegantly?
References: <mailman.1058532630.7342.python-list@python.org> <7h3znjbzscu.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk> <7h3n0f8yspt.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk> <mailman.1058826934.20903.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7h38yqqznks.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

"Mike C. Fletcher" <mcfletch at rogers.com> writes:

> Michael Hudson wrote:
> 
> >Michael Hudson <mwh at python.net> writes:
> >
> >  
> >>"Mike C. Fletcher" <mcfletch at rogers.com> writes:
> >>
> >>    
> >>>So, does anyone have a pattern which allows setting an attribute on
> >>>a class which doesn't go through the setattr machinery (i.e. can be
> >>>used within a descriptor)?
> >>>      
> >>No.  Fun problem to think about, though :-)
> >>    
> >
> >Actually, that was a lie.  Check this horror out:
> >
> <snip>
> 
> >I'm quite proud of this one :-)
> >
> Rightly so, all evil geniuses should always gloat over their mad
> creations :)
> 
> Unfortunately, it appear to tickle a Python 2.2.3 bug where setting
> a descriptor on a meta-class doesn't reinstate capturing of the
> __get__ for the attribute.  I filed a bug report for that here:
> 
> https://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=775328&group_id=5470&atid=105470

And I'll close it again: MetaProp is a non-data descriptor, and hence
overridden by the contents of __dict__.  Adding a dummy __set__ to the
MetaProp in the bug report makes the asserts pass.

> Other than that, and it's intrinsicly *evil* nature, it does,
> indeed, do what I was looking for.

I actually thought that the automatic __dict__ overriding was part of
what you were looking for!

> BTW, you're creating a property whose *value* (albeit a static value)
> is shared by all instances of the meta-class, rather than one that's
> specific to the individual class.

Well, yah.  Making an interesting property *value* didn't seem to be
the point of the excercise :-)

[...]
> But really, I don't think either of us will deploy that particular
> pattern in a production system.  

Phew :-)

> Still, fun proposal, thanks for playing, we have lots of marvelous
> parting gifts for you :) .
> 
> BTW: You know this, but in case others are wondering why it's not
> usable in real life: it's possible to have threads get/set the value
> without triggering the descriptor if they happen to ask for it during
> the period when the descriptor is deleted.

That's one of the obvious flaws, yes.  You could up the insanity
quotient still further by having a per-property-instance Lock() around
the descriptor machinations :-)

Another, more serious (to me, given that I don't use threads) is the
lack of coping with inheritance.

Cheers,
mwh

-- 
  we're already scrubbing the face of intuition with steel wool,
  setting it on fire, then putting it out with an axe <wink>.
                      -- Tim Peters, on comparing recursive structures



From alanmk at hotmail.com  Fri Jul 25 04:28:13 2003
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 09:28:13 +0100
Subject: SSH and Windows
References: <mailman.1059075456.6282.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3F20EA1D.78B4603E@hotmail.com>

Isaac Raway wrote:

> Hello. I'm writing a Python program that connects to servers through
> telnetlib to execute a few commands. I've discovered that some of the
> servers that I have to connect to with this program run only SSH, so I
> need to add support for SSH to the program. I'm looking for a library
> that behaves similarly to telnetlib for SSH connections. Does anyone
> know of one? I was going to try using pexpect to control the Windows
> telnet command, but pexpect only works on Unix.
> 
> Any help is appreciated.

Perhaps you might be able to use stunnel, which is a encrypting proxy
that will secure any socket connection, does not require code changes
in client or server code, and is quite straightforward to use.

http://www.stunnel.org/

HTH,

-- 
alan kennedy
-----------------------------------------------------
check http headers here: http://xhaus.com/headers
email alan:              http://xhaus.com/mailto/alan



From rreagan at attbi.com  Mon Jul  7 16:57:18 2003
From: rreagan at attbi.com (Russell Reagan)
Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 20:57:18 GMT
Subject: A story about Python... sort of
References: <mailman.1057554011.6652.python-list@python.org> <mailman.1057601112.30635.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <O8lOa.805$sY2.237@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net>

"Bob Gailer" <bgailer at alum.rpi.edu> wrote

> Physically impossible? or impractical. If it can be solved by Turing
> machine computation then it is physically possible, even though it might
> take more time/resources than anyone cares to expend.

Or more time and resources than anyone has, which would make it impossible,
for now.

There are two ways to go about it. One is storing all of the positions and
their distance to a theoretical result (win in N plies, draw), using a
retrograde approach. This is how current endgame tablebases work. The other
is on the fly depth first search. Currently neither are anywhere close to
producing a practical solution. It's been said that there are more chess
positions than there are atoms in the universe, so no current technology
could possibly store the required information, even if we had the time to
generate all of those positions, which we don't. So that leaves it to the
search which requires only a tiny amount of information storage.
Unfortunately, the search increases exponentially as the depth increases.

A quick estimate, judging from the abilities of current programs and
estimated hardware in about 18 months (10GHz, Intel), it would take about
19,365,300,260,498,916 years to search to a depth of 60 ply (30 full moves),
and it is very unlikely that there is a forced win in the first 30 moves
anyway, with both sides playing perfectly. So, for now it's impossible and
impractical.





From tomas at fancy.org  Mon Jul 14 23:48:54 2003
From: tomas at fancy.org (Tom Plunket)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 20:48:54 -0700
Subject: anything like C++ references?
References: <000301c348c7$3c501980$21795418@dell1700> <sag3hv4vf884ed7ouu5cv8ofnopp9j1t12@4ax.com> <bet1sd$ibl$1@panix3.panix.com> <sfa4hvkq1j7rg1iga5j3tk2cc4qpr6e5qk@4ax.com> <beueis$b1d$1@panix3.panix.com> <78c6hvgu599ku5denkkl7pgmd4n13t460i@4ax.com> <roy-204535.19175914072003@reader1.panix.com> <3F135328.89C1F89C@alcyone.com> <hmq6hv8amht3kis59pqgab5mbqekc5675c@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <v3u6hv0tna44h5bjd38fkqjma5r437fv3k@4ax.com>

Stephen Horne wrote:

> True enough. And if someone creates a language in which '+' does
> subtraction, I'm sure people could get used to that to. Doesn't mean
> it's the right thing, though.

It's often more useful to do what users want than it is to
blindly adhere to what's right and correct.

My field is video games.  Correct physics in video games is fun
for such a small percentage of players that it would be
considered niche (although it actually makes up a few niches).  A
game will get far more players by allowing those players to feel
like superheroes.  Players love the games I've worked on even
though the main character can jump from a standstill up to grab
onto a ledge 12 feet (3.6m) above the ground.  They say that it
seems realistic.

In the same ways, the most popular programming languages are not
necessarily those that are most technically correct, they are
those languages that solve problems for people the way they want
to think about the problems.  A language truly becomes used when
it becomes useful, regardless of correctness.

-tom!



From usenet at fomps.net  Tue Jul 15 07:42:02 2003
From: usenet at fomps.net (Stephen VanDahm)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 11:42:02 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Securing the Pyton Interpreter?
Message-ID: <slrnbh7q3f.kiv.usenet@norge.freeshell.org>

I'm looking for a way to install Python on a UNIX machine in a way such 
that any user on the system can use it, but only to execute scripts that 
are located in a certain directory.  I do not have root access on the
machine that will be running Python, so my options are limited.  I thought 
about hacking the Python interpreter itself so that it will examine the 
argument array and exit with an error if the script to be executed isn't 
in the appropriate directory, but this seems pretty risky.  The module 
'site.py' is imported automatically upon initialization -- I've thought of 
adding the check there instead.  I don't think either of these solutions 
are very elegant.  Is there a better way?

Thanks for your time,

Steve VanDahm
vandahm at norge.freeshell.org



From ulope at gmx.de  Mon Jul 14 08:22:01 2003
From: ulope at gmx.de (Ulrich Petri)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 14:22:01 +0200
Subject: How to give a custom object instance a type name ?
References: <DAwQa.168$O05.9536@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au>
Message-ID: <beu76g$8t8vu$1@ID-67890.news.uni-berlin.de>

"Graeme Matthew" <gsmatthew at ozemail.com.au> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:DAwQa.168$O05.9536 at nnrp1.ozemail.com.au...
>
> Here is a custom Dispatcher class that I have written
>
> >>> from BI.System.Controller.Dispatcher import Dispatcher
> >>> x = Dispatcher()
> >>> type(x)
> <type 'instance'>

You did Java before ;)?

> How do I get the same as with instance 'm' above where the type displays
the
> actual object instance name, however my
> custom dispatcher instance is just a generic 'instance', is there some
> builtin where this is set ?
>

how about
>>> x.__class__.__name__

HTH
Ciao Ulrich





From duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk  Tue Jul 22 08:53:34 2003
From: duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk (Duncan Booth)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 12:53:34 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: weakref and thread safety (in python 2.1)
References: <mailman.1058872336.14143.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Xns93C08CC83A00duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

"Ames Andreas (MPA/DF)" <Andreas.Ames at tenovis.com> wrote in 
news:mailman.1058872336.14143.python-list at python.org:
> I've noted that, when thread2 incidentally blocks on the queue
> (because it's full), while thread1 deletes the queue, the weak
> reference isn't deleted and thread2 keeps blocking forever.

That's because when the only way to use a weak reference is to convert it 
into a strong reference. So when you call:

    myweakref.put(item)

you create a strong reference that exists until the put method returns (and 
in fact some more references are created such as the self parameter inside 
the put method).

> 
> I came up with the following destruction scheme for the queue (within
> thread1; q is the 'strong' ref to the queue), which *seems* to solve
> my problem (as of some preliminary tests):
> 
> qw = weakref.proxy(q)   # a second weak reference (this time within
>                         # thread1) 
> del q
> try:
>         qw.get_nowait() # if thread2 blocks on the (weakrefed) queue,
>                         # qw still exists here;  the get_nowait() call
>                         # wakes thread2 up.  I *hope* that its
>                         # weakreference will be destroyed when it can
>                         # block again in its next call to put()
>                         # (leading to a weakref.ReferenceError)
> except:
>         pass
> 
> Is this thread-safe?  I don't know enough about the implementation of
> the weakref module to decide if it is guaranteed that thread2's weak
> reference to the queue will be destroied *before* thread2 can call
> 'put()' (or rather before thread2 can block) for the next time.

No, this isn't thread safe. You have again got a strong reference while 
calling the method, so the only place the weak reference could be destroyed 
is outside the method call, and by that time thread2 could have blocked on 
the queue again.

However, if you repeatedly try to pull data out of the queue, you should 
eventually get somewhere.

 qw = weakref.ref(q)   # a second weak reference (this time within
                         # thread1) 
 del q
 while qw:
     qw().get_nowait()

There is still a problem though as your code is free-running: if the queue 
gets empty before it is released you may use a lot of CPU before it 
eventually gets freed. Also you are depending on the memory behaviour of C 
Python, if Zope ever gets ported to Jython you will probably find that weak 
references don't go away until the garbage collector kicks in.

A much better way to do this would be to make the termination explicit.

e.g. (untested code)

 class MyQueue(Queue):
    def __init__(self, maxsize=0):
         Queue.__init__(self, maxsize)
         self.terminated = False

thread2, with queue a normal reference to a MyQueue instance:

  while 1:
     item = produce()
     queue.put(item)
     if queue.terminated:
        break # Stop processing queue

thread1 can then terminate the queue with:

   queue.terminated = True
   queue.get_nowait() # Ensure any blocked put completes.

No weak references needed.

-- 
Duncan Booth                                             duncan at rcp.co.uk
int month(char *p){return(124864/((p[0]+p[1]-p[2]&0x1f)+1)%12)["\5\x8\3"
"\6\7\xb\1\x9\xa\2\0\4"];} // Who said my code was obscure?



From agentgt at yahoo.com  Thu Jul 10 12:16:37 2003
From: agentgt at yahoo.com (Adam Gent)
Date: 10 Jul 2003 09:16:37 -0700
Subject: for in sequence problem... possible new operator to add to python
Message-ID: <3a8fc6c5.0307100816.634c83a3@posting.google.com>

I was fooling around subclassing a dictionary object and noticed that
when
I do the standard "for in <object-is-a-sequence>:" that I have no
control on how python gets that sequence.

For example:

class Blah(dict):
   pass

bl = Blah()

for b in bl:
    #b will be a key and not a value
    #no matter how I subclass Blah

However I want b to be the values with out doing:
for b in bl.values()

I could be wrong on this but I believe python is missing an operator
for looping over objects. I think there should be a __sequence__ or
__forsequence__ operator that returns a sequence when "for x in
object" syntax is used.
So
for b in bl: == for b in bl.__sequence__



From http  Tue Jul 29 21:39:22 2003
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 29 Jul 2003 18:39:22 -0700
Subject: Bottleneck: easy obscurity "encryption" via xor
References: <p6rdivscomvoraihqmac4piut7uqcpdvj1@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <7xwue0pzcl.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Tino Lange <tl_news at nexgo.de> writes:
> Hmmm, do you have some better implementation ideas? Some optimizing
> tricks? (Besides coding in C to avoid immutable string problems)
> I already took the operator module to speed up a bit - but it seems
> that's not enough...

Use the array module.  See <http://www.nightsong.com/phr/crypto/p2.py>.



From irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl  Thu Jul 10 18:16:32 2003
From: irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 00:16:32 +0200
Subject: Securing PyDoc and CGIHTTPserver
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1057851495.17561.python-list@python.org>
References: <2621b014.0307100535.449ad06f@posting.google.com> <mailman.1057851495.17561.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3f0de5c0$0$49113$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

Shane Hathaway wrote:

> What about binding only to the local (loopback) interface?  That way, 
> the system won't even listen for external connections.  It's like a 
> built-in firewall.
> 
> The change is a one-liner.  The DocServer computes the hostname for the 
> loopback interface but then binds to all interfaces.  So change this line:
> 
>   self.address = ('', port)
> 
> to:
> 
>   self.address = (host, port)
> 

I think Shane meant:

     self.address = ('localhost',port)


--Irmen de Jong




From drs at ecp.cc  Wed Jul  9 15:52:42 2003
From: drs at ecp.cc (drs)
Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 19:52:42 GMT
Subject: .join() question
Message-ID: <eo_Oa.14415$BM.4645038@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com>

why does

>>> ''.join(lst)

not automatically do

>>> ''.join([str(i) for i in lst])

?  That is, is there ever a time when one does not want .join to make
everything into a string?  This seems like reasonable default behavior, but
maybe I'm missing something?

-doug





From nospamjynyl at yahoo.co.nz  Mon Jul 28 14:06:30 2003
From: nospamjynyl at yahoo.co.nz (Peter)
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 06:06:30 +1200
Subject: default import path
References: <3f24c37e@news.maxnet.co.nz> <3f24e61d$0$24786$626a54ce@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <3f2566cf@news.maxnet.co.nz>

this quote is from Fabien SK of Mon, 28 Jul 2003 20:59 :
> Peter wrote:
>> <newbie question>
>> How can I edit the default import path for Python under Windows?
> 
> I added this key in the registry:
> HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Python\PythonCore\2.2\PythonPath\Some_name

Thanks,
seems rather un-python-like to have to do this via an edit to the registry. 
I'm comfortable editing config on my Linux PC, but I'd rather not mess with
the registry as Windows is too frail (and it is a friend's PC).
Maybe, it would be better to use a addpath statement in each python script
where I want to use this module.

thanks for you help

Peter




From bdesth.nospam at removeme.free.fr  Fri Jul 25 16:15:48 2003
From: bdesth.nospam at removeme.free.fr (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 22:15:48 +0200
Subject: Static typing
In-Reply-To: <LvdUa.905$DU.696@fe12.atl2.webusenet.com>
References: <LvdUa.905$DU.696@fe12.atl2.webusenet.com>
Message-ID: <3f218e1e$0$27907$626a54ce@news.free.fr>

Michael Muller wrote:
> Is there currently any plan to introduce static typing in any future
> version of Python?  

AARGGHHHH ! NO !! DON'T DO THAT !!! NEVER AGAIN !!!!

(sorry, uncontrolable nervous reaction... 3 valiums latter... : )

(I'm not entirely sure that "static typing" is the right
> term: what I'm talking about is the declaration of types for variables,
> parameters and function return values).

This is the right term. This is also the wrong thing for Python IMHO.

> I know there was a "types SIG" which introduced several proposals, but it
> expired quite a while ago, and I was wondering whether whether some
> consensus has been reached on the subject 

<flame-war-mode='on'>
Yes :
dynamic typing is good a Good Thing(tm),
static typing is Evil(tm) !-)
</flame-war-mode>


Bruno






From rimbalaya at yahoo.com  Tue Jul  1 13:07:04 2003
From: rimbalaya at yahoo.com (Rim)
Date: 1 Jul 2003 10:07:04 -0700
Subject: Suggesting for overloading the assign operator
References: <6f03c4a5.0306301931.3f15fbb7@posting.google.com> <coqdnfH2G47kl5yiXTWJkA@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <6f03c4a5.0307010907.302b931c@posting.google.com>

"Terry Reedy" <tjreedy at udel.edu> wrote in message news:<coqdnfH2G47kl5yiXTWJkA at comcast.com>...
> "Rim" <rimbalaya at yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:6f03c4a5.0306301931.3f15fbb7 at posting.google.com...
> > Hi,
> >
> > I have been thinking about how to overload the assign operation '='.
> 
> Assignment is a statement, not an operator, and therefore not
> overloadable .  This is an intentional design decision that GvR will
> not change.

Well, what about the idea of providing another statement, the one I
proposed in the original post?

'=' statement assigns type and value
':=' statement assigns value only

Rim



From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Thu Jul 10 22:49:48 2003
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 21:49:48 -0500
Subject: python mode problem in emacs
In-Reply-To: <3097083.1057868749@dbforums.com> (pygeek's message of "Thu, 10
 Jul 2003 20:25:49 +0000")
References: <3097083.1057868749@dbforums.com>
Message-ID: <m23chdu69f.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

>>>>> "pygeek" == pygeek  <member32992 at dbforums.com> writes:

    pygeek> Hi everyone.  I've just installed emacs 21.3.1 on my WinXP
    pygeek> machine.  I wanted to switch to Python mode then realized
    pygeek> that my emacs lacked the 'python-mode.el' file. After
    pygeek> downloading from python.org and byte-compiling the file, I
    pygeek> went on to look for the file '.emacs' or 'emacs.el' to
    pygeek> include a few lines of command so that emacs would load
    pygeek> python-mode.  I looked through and searched my hard drive,
    pygeek> and there wasn't such a file by the name '.emacs' or
    pygeek> 'emacs.el'. What's going on here? Where are the files?
    pygeek> Can somebody help me?  Thanks in advance.

The easiest way to do it is to put your .emacs in C:\ (or $HOME if you
have set that environment variable).  By default, on windows, emacs
will look in $HOME and then C:\\

On win32, I usually put python-mode.el in the site-list dir of the
emacs distribution, then make a minimal .emacs which includes, among
other essentials

  (setq auto-mode-alist (cons '("\\.py$" . python-mode) auto-mode-alist))

JDH




From andy at post.tau.ac.il  Tue Jul 22 13:43:06 2003
From: andy at post.tau.ac.il (Andy Worms)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 20:43:06 +0300 (IDT)
Subject: CGIHTTPServer security Breach
Message-ID: <1058895786.3f1d77aa315c5@webmail.tau.ac.il>

I'm using CGIHTTPServer to try some scripts, apparently as a first step of 
building a real server. The CGIHTTPServer source code has a comment that warns 
of potential security problems:

SECURITY WARNING: DON'T USE THIS CODE UNLESS YOU ARE INSIDE A FIREWALL
-- it may execute arbitrary Python code or external programs.

Does someone know how can an outsider execute arbitrary python code or 
external problems? Are there simple ways to correct the code?

-----------------------------
Andy Worms

-----------------------------




From manuelbastioniNOSPAM at tin.it  Fri Jul 25 14:52:00 2003
From: manuelbastioniNOSPAM at tin.it (manuel)
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 18:52:00 GMT
Subject: decimal to binary
References: <Dh9Ua.13488$Df5.327750@news1.tin.it> <200307250653.18754.gherron@islandtraining.com> <mailman.1059141458.1696.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <k%eUa.24457$Za4.615290@news2.tin.it>

> We probably need more information than that to answer your question.

I'm writing a script for Blender to make a true displacement
feature. This is a sample:
http://www.kino3d.com/forum/files/test4.jpg

and this is the discussion:
http://www.elysiun.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=13135&postdays=0&postorder=asc&
start=0


Please, excuse me for my poor english, it's very
hard for me to explain a development question,
because I'm italian, and I've little time to study
other language...Really I prefer study 3D and python. :-P
The main problem with newsgroup it that
after send the message I can't modify it... :-(

This is the first time that I try to handle
binary file.

I read a tga file, and store all bytes in a list:

---------------------------------------
#LETTURA DEL FILE TGA
 listByte = []
 try:
  f = open(filename,'rb')
 except IOError,(errno,strerror):
  msgstring = "I/O error(%s): %s" % (errno, strerror); Draw()
  return
 fileReaded = f.read();
 msgstring = "Parsing tga..."; Draw()
 for i in range(len(fileReaded)):
  listByte.append(ord(fileReaded[i]))
 f.close()
------------------------------------------

I use ord() to convert the value of byte in
integer, if I don't make this, I've the ASCII
symbol...

But, for listByte[17], I must read the sequence
of 0 and 1, because I must know the 4? and 5? bit:
this bits specify the image origin.

How I can read the 4? and 5? bit from listByte[17]?

Thanks,

        Manuel Bastioni









From __peter__ at web.de  Mon Jul 28 08:46:14 2003
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 14:46:14 +0200
Subject: changing the List's behaviour?
References: <mailman.1059338081.22895.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bg36kj$jcr$02$1@news.t-online.com>

meinrad recheis wrote:

> i want to change the List so that it returns None if the index for
> accesssing list elements
> is out of bound.

If you really need it, you can write a class similar to the one below:

class DefaultList(list):
    def __init__(self, sequence=[], default=None):
        list.__init__(self, sequence)
        self.default = default
    def __getitem__(self, index):
        try:
            return list.__getitem__(self, index)
        except IndexError:
            return self.default

if __name__ == "__main__":
    theList = DefaultList("abc", "?")
    print theList[1]
    print theList[99]

    theList = DefaultList(default="X")
    print theList[1]





From bdesth.nospam at removeme.free.fr  Mon Jul  7 15:44:47 2003
From: bdesth.nospam at removeme.free.fr (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 19:44:47 +0000
Subject: Python vs PHP
References: <mailman.1057574470.1750.python-list@python.org> <bebmn0$6k8$1@news-reader3.wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <3F09CDAF.4040906@removeme.free.fr>

News M Claveau /Hamster-P wrote:
> Hi !
> 
> PHP-5 let down MySql, for Sql-Lite (rumor ?)

PHP 5 won't come bundled with a default MySql lib, but anyone is still 
free to link against the official MySQL lib, one way or another...

And yes, the default 'bundled-in' SQL lib should be Sql-lite.

Bruno




From tim.one at comcast.net  Sun Jul 27 13:17:50 2003
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 13:17:50 -0400
Subject: multiple file objects for some file?
In-Reply-To: <BB495860.2AB00%grobinson@transpose.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCAEFNFAAB.tim.one@comcast.net>

[Gary Robinson]
> For some code I'm writing, it's convenient for me to have multiple
> file objects (say, 2 or 3) open on the same file in the same process
> for reading different locations.
>
> As far as I can tell, there is no problem with that but I thought it
> might be a good idea to ask here just in case I'm wrong.

Provided they're "ordinary" on-disk files (not, e.g., sockets or pipes
wrapped in a Python file object), that should be fine.  Each file object has
its own idea of the current file position, and they'll all (of course) see
the same data on disk.

You can get in deep trouble if the file mutates, though.  Python's file
objects are wrappers around C's streams, and each C stream has its own
buffers.  So, for example, a mutation (a file write) made via one file
object won't necessarily update the buffers held by the other file objects
(it depends on how your platform C works, but I don't know of any that
automagically try to update buffers across multiple streams open on the same
file), and then reading via some other file object may continue to see stale
data (left over in its buffer).

For example, I bet this program will fail on your box before a minute
passes:

"""
f = open('temp.dat', 'wb')
chars = ''.join(map(chr, range(256)))
chars = chars * 1000
f.write(chars)
f.close()

f1 = open('temp.dat', 'r+b')
f2 = open('temp.dat', 'r+b')
f1.seek(0, 2)
n = f1.tell()
assert n == len(chars)

import random
while True:
    f = random.choice((f1, f2))
    start = random.randrange(n)
    f.seek(start)
    len = random.randrange(500)
    data = f.read(len)
    assert data == chars[start : start+len]
    print '.',
    if random.random() < 0.1:
        print len,
        data = ''.join([random.choice(chars) for dummy in xrange(len)])
        f.seek(start)
        f.write(data)
        chars = chars[:start] + data + chars[start+len:]
"""

If you change

    f = random.choice((f1, f2))

to

    f = f1

it should never fail (then there's only one file object getting mucked
with).

If instead you change

    if random.random() < 0.1:

to

    if 0:

it should also never fail (then there are multiple file objects, but no file
mutations).





From tdelaney at avaya.com  Mon Jul  7 18:14:53 2003
From: tdelaney at avaya.com (Delaney, Timothy C (Timothy))
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 08:14:53 +1000
Subject: python scripting game The Temple Of Elemental Evil update
Message-ID: <338366A6D2E2CA4C9DAEAE652E12A1DE84484B@au3010avexu1.global.avaya.com>

> From: Geoff Gerrietts [mailto:geoff at gerrietts.net]
> 
> I can't speak for the Temple of Elemental Evil in particular, but this
> pattern holds true in dozens of similar titles. If they're doing
> something different, they're doing something really very different.

Troika have specifically said that it is being used in the AI (presumably NPC and PC if the player turns on PC AI during combat).

The dialog system is basically an upgraded version of the Arcanum dialog system, so whether that's been augmented with Python I have no idea.

That's as in-depth as I know.

Tim Delaney




From pinard at iro.umontreal.ca  Wed Jul 23 13:10:54 2003
From: pinard at iro.umontreal.ca (=?iso-8859-1?q?Fran=E7ois_Pinard?=)
Date: 23 Jul 2003 13:10:54 -0400
Subject: The global statement
In-Reply-To: <pan.2003.07.23.08.06.17.301516@intnet.mu>
References: <pan.2003.07.23.08.06.17.301516@intnet.mu>
Message-ID: <oq3cgxyxr5.fsf@titan.progiciels-bpi.ca>

[David Hitillambeau]

> I want to enable some sharing between the two functions (foo and bar)
> using one global variable in such a way that each function can have read
> and write access over it.  [...]  I've read about "The global statement"
> in python's documentation and still can't figure out it's use.

You do not have to use a `global' declaration in global scope, but you ought
to use `global' in local scope whenever you modify that variable in that
scope.

---------------------------------------------------------------------->
# Initialisation has to be done somewhere, not necessarily here.
variable = INITIAL_VALUE

def foo:
  # This function looks at `variable', a global, but does not modify it.
  # A `global variable' declaration may appear, but is not required.
  <instructions>

def bar:
  # This function may either look or change `variable', which is global.
  global variable
  <instructions>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<

The problem with globals is that when can easily abuse them, and have a
program that looks a bit disorganised.  I try to avoid them wherever
possible.  The usual best way to share data between functions is to use
classes, a bit like this:

---------------------------------------------------------------------->
class Item:
    def __init__(self):
        self.variable = INITIAL_VALUE

    def foo(self):
        # Look at or modify self.variable.
        <instructions>

    def bar(self):
        # Look at or modify self.variable.
        <instructions>

item = Item()
----------------------------------------------------------------------<

you can then use `item.foo()' or `item.bar()' as needed.

-- 
Fran?ois Pinard   http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/~pinard




From klappnase at freenet.de  Sun Jul 20 19:13:15 2003
From: klappnase at freenet.de (klappnase)
Date: 20 Jul 2003 16:13:15 -0700
Subject: Newbie Questions?
References: <504413fa.0307200626.3fceb85a@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <9a410299.0307201513.7ba29781@posting.google.com>

KodeKruncherDude at aol.com (Adam Petrosh) wrote in message news:<504413fa.0307200626.3fceb85a at posting.google.com>...
> Hail all. Are newbie questions allowed here, or is there a different
> Newsgroup for that? Thanks.

Hi,

I think you may ask whatever you want, seems like you are not the only
one around here.

Michael



From gh at ghaering.de  Wed Jul 30 04:06:27 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 10:06:27 +0200
Subject: Upgrading python
In-Reply-To: <ItycnZqbMc9St7qiXTWc-w@speakeasy.net>
References: <ItycnZqbMc9St7qiXTWc-w@speakeasy.net>
Message-ID: <3F277C83.60900@ghaering.de>

Stephen Boulet wrote:
> When I upgrade from 2.2.3 to 2.3 on windows, do I first uninstall 2.2.3?

There's no need to.

-- Gerhard




From ruach at chpc.utah.edu  Mon Jul 28 16:14:50 2003
From: ruach at chpc.utah.edu (Matthew)
Date: 28 Jul 2003 13:14:50 -0700
Subject: octet string conversion
Message-ID: <ec1162c7.0307281214.50b68373@posting.google.com>

I am working on some software that uses SNMP to get information from
routers and switches. I am using the pysnmp module (v2.0.8) to do the
snmp part. The problem that I am having is that when I query a router
for mac addresses pysnmp returns octetstrings like this:

\000\002\263\254\264\351
\010\000 \301F\021
\010\000 \300\303[
\000\002\263\254\264\241

what I need though is hex strings like this:

0:e0:7d:de:5:48
0:e0:7d:c8:dc:9f
8:0:36:4:3b:de
0:80:ad:3a:9e:2b

Can anyone tell me how to convert the octet strings to hex strings?

Thanks very much
-matthew



From gh at ghaering.de  Thu Jul 31 07:03:15 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 13:03:15 +0200
Subject: Misuse of <tab>
In-Reply-To: <9rehivsavhereijf36nhla96krct4s1fmn@4ax.com>
References: <3f27f0e3$1@news.broadpark.no>
	<3f28287e$0$103$8f4e7992@newsreader.goldengate.net>
	<9rehivsavhereijf36nhla96krct4s1fmn@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3F28F773.8030306@ghaering.de>

Christopher Koppler wrote:
> [tab settings]
> And, as others have said, DON'T use 5.

I'd still like to hear a reason for this.

-- Gerhard




From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Jul 21 16:48:59 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 16:48:59 -0400
Subject: Voting Project Needs Python People
References: <LDVSa.14955$Mc.1126731@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <3F1C31B1.B44774BA@engcorp.com> <2oWSa.113024$Io.9679242@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <3F1C51BB.AC355795@engcorp.com>

Alan Dechert wrote:
> 
> "Peter Hansen" <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message
> news:3F1C31B1.B44774BA at engcorp.com...
> > Alan Dechert wrote:
> > >
> > > We are pulling together a great voting modernization projects. [snip]
> >
> > Is there a word missing in the above?  I can't parse it as-is, but it
> > looks like it wants the word "many" after the word "great"...
> >
> Editing error.  I started to say, "the mother of all voting modernization
> projects."
> 
> You get the idea.

I do now.  Thanks.  "The mother of all" has a distinctly different
character than "pulling together a great many".  One hopes there will
not also be dozens of other such projects going on in parallel, wasting
resources.

-Peter



From gherron at islandtraining.com  Thu Jul 24 02:10:30 2003
From: gherron at islandtraining.com (Gary Herron)
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 23:10:30 -0700
Subject: python 2.2 string conversion ?
In-Reply-To: <FaKTa.117362$Io.10011057@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
References: <FaKTa.117362$Io.10011057@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <200307232310.30779.gherron@islandtraining.com>

>
> >>> x="e10ea210"
> >>> y=long(x)
>
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<pyshell#7>", line 1, in ?
>     y=long(x)
> ValueError: invalid literal for long(): e10ea210

> What am I doing wrong?

You didn't specify what you are trying to do here, but I'll make a
wild *guess* that the string in x is a hexadecimal (i.e., base 16)
value.  However, Python can't go around making such a guess, so you
have to explicitly specify your radix (radix being another term for
base) like this:

>>> print long("e10ea210",16)
3775832592

or tell it to infer the radix from a '0x' prefix:

>>> print long("0xe10ea210",0)
3775832592

Here are the relevant portions of the manual:

long(x[, radix])

  Convert a string or number to a long integer. If the argument is a
  string, it must contain a possibly signed number of arbitrary size,
  possibly embedded in whitespace; this behaves identical to
  string.atol(x). The radix argument is interpreted in the same way as
  for int(), and may only be given when x is a string. Otherwise, the
  argument may be a plain or long integer or a floating point number,
  and a long integer with the same value is returned. Conversion of
  floating point numbers to integers truncates (towards zero).


int(x[, radix])

  Convert a string or number to a plain integer. If the argument is a
  string, it must contain a possibly signed decimal number
  representable as a Python integer, possibly embedded in whitespace;
  this behaves identical to string.atoi(x[, radix]). The radix
  parameter gives the base for the conversion and may be any integer
  in the range [2, 36], or zero. If radix is zero, the proper radix is
  guessed based on the contents of string; the interpretation is the
  same as for integer literals. If radix is specified and x is not a
  string, TypeError is raised. Otherwise, the argument may be a plain
  or long integer or a floating point number. Conversion of floating
  point numbers to integers truncates (towards zero). If the argument
  is outside the integer range a long object will be returned instead.


Gary Herron






From pipen at beast_tu_kielce.pl  Thu Jul 10 15:04:11 2003
From: pipen at beast_tu_kielce.pl (Artur M. Piwko)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 19:04:11 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: wxPython - question
Message-ID: <slrnbgre73.fld.pipen@beast.tu.kielce.pl>

How can I remove program entry from taskbar (not tray)?

Artur

-- 
Before the Goat of Mendes... we all must take our turn   |  Artur M. Piwko
Into the magic circle... where still the fire burns      |  mailto:s/_/./
We're spinning round and round... until one takes a fall | -- Mercyful Fate
The fallen one will not return, the fallen one must burn | "Witches' Dance"



From jarausch at skynet.be  Thu Jul 17 12:28:47 2003
From: jarausch at skynet.be (Helmut Jarausch)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 18:28:47 +0200
Subject: IDEStudio (Linux Python cvs-version TclTk 8.4.3  tix-8.1.4)
Message-ID: <3f16cebf$0$269$ba620e4c@reader0.news.skynet.be>

Hi,
has anybody managed to get IDEStudio running on Linux

with Python 2.3b2+ (cvs) plus TclTk 8.4.3 + tix-8.1.4 ?

After a minor correction to src/idledev/IDEStudio.py
to set 'srcdir' correctly (otherwise Tide.py is not found)
I get only a tall black column.

What did I miss?

Thanks for a hint,

Helmut Jarausch

Lehrstuhl fuer Numerische Mathematik
RWTH - Aachen University
D 52056 Aachen, Germany




From jepler at unpythonic.net  Tue Jul 29 17:59:09 2003
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 16:59:09 -0500
Subject: bisect uses __cmp__()?
In-Reply-To: <BB4C4BDA.2ADD4%grobinson@transpose.com>
References: <BB4C4BDA.2ADD4%grobinson@transpose.com>
Message-ID: <20030729215909.GA5176@unpythonic.net>

On Tue, Jul 29, 2003 at 04:05:46PM -0400, Gary Robinson wrote:
> I'm wondering if bisect.insort is guaranteed to use a __cmp__ method, for
> now and for future python versions, if it exists, for the items being
> inserted?

I don't know for certain what (if anything) is guaranteed, but my guess is that
insort is defined to use only the < operator to compare items.  This
means that you can meet the requirements of the bisect module by
defining __cmp__ or by defining __lt__ (or even by defining __gt__!).  See
	http://python.org/dev/doc/devel/ref/customization.html
for how "rich comparison" works to perform comparisons.  __cmp__ is used
"if rich comparison is not defined".  Thus, existing code with __cmp__
still works just fine.

Jeff




From staschuk at telusplanet.net  Tue Jul  1 23:42:49 2003
From: staschuk at telusplanet.net (Steven Taschuk)
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 21:42:49 -0600
Subject: whitespace and ?asc()?
In-Reply-To: <3F02086D.9010300@ihug.co.nz>; from rtomes@ihug.co.nz on Wed, Jul 02, 2003 at 10:17:17AM +1200
References: <3F02086D.9010300@ihug.co.nz>
Message-ID: <20030701214249.A192@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>

Quoth Ray Tomes:
  [...]
> Also, in trying to find the ASCII (or is it ANSI) values for characters I 

The only thing nobody else commented on:

The character code standard is ASCII (American Standard Code for
Information Interchange, if memory serves), but it is an ANSI
standard (the American National Standards Institute).  (There's an
equivalent ISO standard, I think... ISO 646?)

In some communities, "ANSI" is used metonymously to refer to some
specific ANSI standard for terminal control codes, I think.  But
this has nothing to do with ASCII.

> I had to do this yucky thing to decode whitespace ...
> 
> import string
> x=string.whitespace
> for b in x:
>      for i in range(256):
>          if chr(i) == b:
>              print i

Note also that at the interpreter prompt you can (some of) those
ASCII codes in hex just by looking at the value of the string:

    $ python
    ...
    >>> import string
    >>> string.whitespace
    '\t\n\x0b\x0c\r '

If your ASCII chart doesn't have hex, continue with

    >>> 0x0b, 0x0c
    (11, 12)

to obtain the decimal values.

-- 
Steven Taschuk                            staschuk at telusplanet.net
"Our analysis begins with two outrageous benchmarks."
  -- "Implementation strategies for continuations", Clinger et al.




From wim_wauters at skynet.be  Tue Jul 15 11:03:02 2003
From: wim_wauters at skynet.be (WIWA)
Date: 15 Jul 2003 08:03:02 -0700
Subject: pySNMP: SNMPget example
References: <538fc8e.0307100356.4bf46554@posting.google.com> <betnfr$dqj$1@news.rol.ru> <538fc8e.0307140736.19eb777@posting.google.com> <bf07n8$i1b$1@news.rol.ru>
Message-ID: <538fc8e.0307150703.48466779@posting.google.com>

Hi,

I was wondering if you could help me: I want to create an SNMP
application and would need the following:

1) Instead of writing '1.3.6.1.2.1.69.1.3.1', I would also like to be
able to write 'docsDevSwServer'. Any idea how I can do that?

2) I have downloaded some MIBs. How can I make my program aware of the
existence of these MIBs. Basically I want to write a program that
allows the user to browse to these MIBs and then import them into a
GUI. Any ideas?

Wim

Ilya Etingof <ilya at cray.glas.net> wrote in message news:<bf07n8$i1b$1 at news.rol.ru>...
> I'd suggest you to refer to "high-level" API documentation at
> http://pysnmp.sourceforge.net/docs/3.x/ for getting used to
> basic operations on SNMP objects (such as apiGetPdu(), apiSetVarBind()).
> 
> Also, note, that pysnmp s/w (the third branch) has been closely aligned
> with the APIs introduced by SNMP RFCs, so reading these RFCs may be
> helpful too.
> 
> If you got more specific questions, please, let me know.
> 
> -ilya
> 
> WIWA <wim_wauters at skynet.be> wrote:
> > Thanks Ilya,
>  
> > This has been very helpful. I'm able to get data out of my 'device
> > under test'.
>  
> > I must be honnest and say that I understand the sample code, but could
> > not write or produce it myself.
>  
> > How do you know e.g that
> > req.apiGetPdu().apiSetVarBind([('1.3.6.1.2.1.1.1.0', None)]) can be
> > written? I've read through the documentation and could not find
> > anything similar. Of course, I could overlook it.
>  
> > Isn't there a tutorial out there that summarizes pysnmpv3 and gives
> > examples of snmpget, snmpset, snmpwalk, etc...
>  
> > Thanks in advance for helping me out.
>  
> > Regards,
>  
> > Wim
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> > Ilya Etingof <ilya at cray.glas.net> wrote in message news:<betnfr$dqj$1 at news.rol.ru>...
> >> > 2) when using: 'from pysnmp import role' (found on
> >> > http://pysnmp.sourceforge
> >> > .net/examples/2.x/snmpget.html), I get the message 'ImportError:
> >> 
> >> You seems to use pysnmp 2.x API which differs from the latest 3.x branch
> >> (though, a compatibility layer exists in 3.x distribution). That's why
> >> I suggest you looking at the 3.x docs and examples at:
> >> 
> >> http://pysnmp.sourceforge.net/docs/3.x/index.html
> >> 
> >> > 3) A general question: how can I get a list of what I can type after
> >> > the 'from
> >> > pysnmp import ...'
> >> 
> >> dir(<module>) may help but in this case I'd better see an example.
> >> 
> >> > 4) How can I use: 'from snmpget import snmpget'. It does not accept
> >> > this.
> >> 
> >> There is no such module as snmpget in pysnmp.
> >> 
> >> > 5) Anyone has a simple example for the following application: I have a
> >> > cable
> >> > modem (which has an SNMP agent inside). I want to make a script where
> >> > I can
> >> > do SNMPgets (and later SNMPSet and SNMPwalk). 
> >> 
> >> Python 1.5.2 (#3, Aug 25 1999, 19:14:24)  [GCC 2.8.1] on sunos5
> >> Copyright 1991-1995 Stichting Mathematisch Centrum, Amsterdam
> >> >>> from pysnmp.proto import v1
> >> >>> from pysnmp.proto.api import generic
> >> >>> from pysnmp.mapping.udp import role
> >> >>> req = v1.GetRequest()
> >> >>> req.apiGetPdu().apiSetVarBind([('1.3.6.1.2.1.1.1.0', None)])
> >> >>> tr = role.manager(('router-1.glas.net', 161))
> >> >>> (answer, src) = tr.send_and_receive(req.encode())
> >> >>> rsp = v1.GetResponse()
> >> >>> rsp.decode(answer)
> >> >>> vars = rsp.apiGetPdu().apiGetVarBind()
> >> >>> print vars
> >> [('.1.3.6.1.2.1.1.1.0', OctetString('Cisco Internetwork Operating System
> >> Software\015\012IOS (tm) 5400 Software(C5400-JS-M), Version 12.2(11.8b), 
> >> MAINTENANCE INTERIM SOFTWARE\015\012 Copyright (c) 1986-2002 by cisco 
> >> Systems, Inc.\015\012 Compiled Tue 30-Jul-02 19:02 by pwade'))]
> >> >>>
>  
> >> > 7) What is the difference between snmpget and getrequest in pysnmp? 
> >> 
> >> The only difference is the SNMP request object (GetRequest vs GetNextRequest)
> >> you create when building SNMP message.
> >> 
> >> -ilya



From lol at lolmcNOSPAM.com  Fri Jul  4 16:58:51 2003
From: lol at lolmcNOSPAM.com (Rogue 9)
Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 21:58:51 +0100
Subject: Importing of packages problem
Message-ID: <3f05ea75@shknews01>

Hi All,
I am developing a program called oop_lb.py and it's package structure is
as below:

			oop_lb
			   |
	--------------------------------------
        |		   |		     |
     analysis           process            tests

I am using the unittest module and taking a leaf out of the Xtreme
programming philosophy in as much as I am creating test modules for each
module in the program and placing them in the tests package.The analysis
and process packages contain a number of modules and I only
encounteredproblems when I started writing the modules and tests for the
analysis package.

Put simply my problem is that modules in the analysis package reference
modules in the process package and I can't seem to find a way of writing
the import statements so that the tests and oop_lb.py will both execute
without errors such as:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "CalculateMedianTest.py", line 14, in ?
    import oop_lb.analysis.CalculateMedian
  File "/home/lol/disk/python/lotto/oop_lb/analysis/CalculateMedian.py",
  line 13, in ?
    from process import GetDraw
ImportError: No module named process

If I change the import statement so that the test works then the oop_lb.py
module will not run and gives the following message:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "oop_lb.py", line 21, in ?
    from analysis import CalculateMedian # import class definition from
    file
  File "/home/lol/disk/python/lotto/oop_lb/analysis/CalculateMedian.py",
  line 13, in ?
    from oop_lb.process import GetDraw
  File "/home/lol/disk/python/lotto/oop_lb/oop_lb.py", line 21, in ?
    from analysis import CalculateMedian # import class definition from
    file
ImportError: cannot import name CalculateMedian

I hope I haven't been too ambiguous in my request and choice of listings
to illustrate what I mean.If you can help that would be great and if I
need to add something to make it clearer what it is I mean just let me
know.
Thanks ,Lol

-- 
Remove NOSPAM from my email address to use it,please.




From imbosol at aerojockey.com  Mon Jul 28 00:48:05 2003
From: imbosol at aerojockey.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 04:48:05 GMT
Subject: Question regarding HTMLParser module.
References: <bi1Va.122444$Io.10465802@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <9W1Va.9538$AO6.361@nwrdny02.gnilink.net>

Adonis wrote:
> When parsing my html files, I use handle_pi to capture some embedded python
> code, but I have noticed that in the embedded python code if it contains
> html, HTMLParser will parse it as well, and thus causes an error when I exec
> the code, raises an EOL error. I have a work around for this as I use
> different set of characters rather that <tag> use something like (tag) then
> revert it back to <tag> via another function, I was wondering if there is a
> way to tell HTMLParser to ignore the embedded tags or another alternative?
> 
> Any help would be greatly appreciated.
> And another note, I am well aware of Zope, Webware, CherryPy, etc... for
> py/html embedding options, but I want this to be a learning experience.


Unfortunately, HTMLParser (and the similar sgmllib) miserably fail to
process inline text.  I know this very well; I have an HTML-generating
package that uses a lot of scripting and verbatim text.

What's happening in your case is that HTMLParser, when processing a <?
tag, simply and naively inputs text up to the next ">".  HTMLParser
thinks the > in <tt> closes your <? tag.  (It should at least have a
flag indicating whether it should read up to "?>" or just ">".)

A workaround is to do something like this:

<? print '<tt\x29monospaced</tt\x29' >

where obviously, \x29 is the hex code for >.  That's not quite as bad
as replacing characters, although it's still not perfect.

Another possibility is to use sgmllib, but that's probably way more
trouble than it's worth, and still far from perfect.  Basically,
sgmllib parsers have an method called verbatim, that turns of HTML tag
processing, although entities and closing tags are still processed.
(Entities and closing tags you can kind of reconstruct into the
original text, although the whitespace is lost.)  This is what I do in
my own HTML-generating package.

I'll probably contribute some badly-needed remedies to HTMLParser
sometime, as the limitations of it and sgmllib are starting to get on
my nerves.


-- 
CARL BANKS



From wil.koenen at hetnet.nl  Sun Jul  6 08:57:00 2003
From: wil.koenen at hetnet.nl (Wil Koenen)
Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2003 14:57:00 +0200
Subject: problem with GTK on Windows
Message-ID: <be96gi$pk4$1@reader08.wxs.nl>

Hi,

When importing (parts of) gtk, here's what I get:

>>> import gobject
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<pyshell#13>", line 1, in ?
    import gobject
ImportError: DLL load failed: One of the library files needed to run this
application cannot be found.

(similar messages for other modules, including gtk, atk , _gtk). This
message tells me something, but not all.
Is the gobject.pyd which is not found? Or is a 'real' .dll from the GTK
package that cannot be found.

I've installed (Windows '95):

  Python-2_2_1.exe in C:\Program Files\Python.
  GTK+-Runtime-Environment-2.2.0.1.exe in C:\Program Files\Common Files\Gtk
  pygtk-1.99.16.win32-py2.2.exe in C:\Program
Files\Python\Lib\site-packages\gtk-2.0

and added some .pth files in the site-packages directory. The sys.path
includes the following:

C:\PROGRA~1\PYTHON\Tools\idle
C:\Program Files\Python\Lib\site-packages\gtk-2.0\gtk
C:\PROGRAM FILES\PYTHON\DLLs
C:\PROGRAM FILES\PYTHON\lib
C:\PROGRAM FILES\PYTHON\lib\lib-tk
C:\PROGRAM FILES\PYTHON
C:\PROGRAM FILES\PYTHON\lib\site-packages
C:\Program Files\Common Files\GTK\2.0\lib
C:\Program Files\Common Files\GTK\2.0\lib\gtk-2.0\2.2.0\engines
C:\Program Files\Common Files\GTK\2.0\lib\gtk-2.0\2.2.0\immodules
C:\Program Files\Common Files\GTK\2.0\lib\gtk-2.0\2.2.0\loaders
C:\Program Files\Common Files\GTK\2.0\lib\pango\1.0.0\modules
C:\PROGRAM FILES\PYTHON\lib\site-packages
C:\PROGRAM FILES\PYTHON\lib\site-packages\gtk-2.0

(1) When I use the explorer, I find a file gobject.pyd in

    C:\Program Files\Python\Lib\site-packages\gtk-2.0

but it doesn't have python icon. Would it be possible that this
file is not recognized (by Python) as a module?

(2) Before trying to import gtk, I imported pygtk , which looks like a
setup-script.
May this have ruined my setup.

(3) Does the sys.path have any relation at all to the search path for .dll's
?

Thanks in advance for any help,

Wil






From harry.g.george at boeing.com  Thu Jul 24 16:29:14 2003
From: harry.g.george at boeing.com (Harry George)
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 20:29:14 GMT
Subject: Tokenize
References: <8%VTa.133$313.72262@news.uswest.net>
Message-ID: <xqxsmov7jol.fsf@cola2.ca.boeing.com>

"Ken Fettig" <kfettig at state.nd.us> writes:

> Does Python have an equivelent to the Java StringTokenizer? If so, what is
> it and how do you implement it?
> Thanks
> Ken Fettig
> kenfettig at btinet.net
> kfettig at state.nd.us
> 
> 
> 

See shlex (in the main distribution) or see a variety of lexer/parser
tools such as Ply, Yapp.py,

shlex is about the level of complexity you want.  See the Library
Reference Manual for instructions.

-- 
harry.g.george at boeing.com
6-6M31 Knowledge Management
Phone: (425) 342-5601



From staschuk at telusplanet.net  Mon Jul 21 20:36:40 2003
From: staschuk at telusplanet.net (Steven Taschuk)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 18:36:40 -0600
Subject: [OT] sentances with two meanings
In-Reply-To: <Q1uG/ks/K7od089yn@the-wire.com>; from mwilson@the-wire.com on Sun, Jul 20, 2003 at 03:28:16PM -0400
References: <mailman.1058278343.23104.python-list@python.org> <bf167a$pvt$1@panix2.panix.com> <ufzl7rdno.fsf@online.no> <3F142A58.80426AA4@hotmail.com> <2259b0e2.0307161620.4a9353f1@posting.google.com> <Xns93BB246FDDBCFJanC@213.118.75.80> <2259b0e2.0307170416.e2bc998@posting.google.com> <Q1uG/ks/K7od089yn@the-wire.com>
Message-ID: <20030721183640.B188@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>

Quoth Mel Wilson:
  [Latin verbs for 'to know']
>    Me too, but it's in Bantam's _The New College Latin &
> English Dictionary_.  'Cognovisse' seems to be some
> modification of cognoscere.  [...]

It is, in fact, the perfect infinitive of <cognoscere>.

According to Wheelock, <cognoscere> means "to learn" (etc.), and
*in perfect tenses*  means "to know".  Note that you know
something (present tense) iff you have learned it (perfect tense).

So if Bantam lists <cognovisse> as a translation of "to know", I
see no reason to object.  It would be surprising if they list it
as a head word, as if it were the infinitive of a (purely
notional) verb
    cognovi, cognovisse, cognoveram, cognitus eram
(which are analogues of the usual principal parts under the
mapping present -> perfect).

-- 
Steven Taschuk     staschuk at telusplanet.net
"Please don't damage the horticulturalist."
         -- _Little Shop of Horrors_ (1960)




From alanmk at hotmail.com  Thu Jul 17 06:53:05 2003
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 11:53:05 +0100
Subject: A challenge to the ASCII proponents.
References: <mailman.1058278343.23104.python-list@python.org> <bf167a$pvt$1@panix2.panix.com> <ufzl7rdno.fsf@online.no> <3F142A58.80426AA4@hotmail.com> <2259b0e2.0307161620.4a9353f1@posting.google.com> <Xns93BB246FDDBCFJanC@213.118.75.80>
Message-ID: <3F168011.3AEB3EFC@hotmail.com>

JanC wrote:

> The verb "gignooskoo" (trying to write it with Latin letters ;)

Why limit yourself to that nasty little us-ascii alphabet? >;-)

Here it is in a format where almost everybody will be able to see the
original greek verb on their screen.

#---------
<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?>
<verb>&#x3b3;&#x3af;&#x3b3;&#x3bd;&#x3c9;&#x3c3;&#x3ba;&#x3c9;</verb>
#---------

For anybody who has MS Internet Explorer 5+, Netscape 6+, Mozilla 1+,
i.e. any browser that supports XML, simply save this to a disk file
and open it in your chosen browser.

Of course, I could also have used charset "iso-8859-7", in which case
the character codes would be one-byte-only. But I don't think that
would have travelled well over UseNet to most of you.

Or I could have used UTF-16, in which case every character would have
been two-bytes. But the same UseNet problems apply.

So, the challenge to the ASCII proponents is: put the greek word
"gignooskoo" on everybody's screen, originating from a usenet message,
in the original greek, where "oo" -> greek letter omega.

Obviously, it could also be represented in python itself. But I think
it is fair to exclude python, given that not everyone reading this
message will have python available to them (think of people stumbling
across this posting while searching the archives for information about
the origin of the word "science" for example).

I expect you won't find it as simple as the XML above, although I'm
also completely prepared to be proven wrong (Alan tries to cover his
a** in advance ;-).

-- 
alan kennedy
-----------------------------------------------------
check http headers here: http://xhaus.com/headers
email alan:              http://xhaus.com/mailto/alan



From eniac at sdf-eu.org  Tue Jul 22 16:53:28 2003
From: eniac at sdf-eu.org (Geiregat Jonas)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 22:53:28 +0200
Subject: wxPython probleme
Message-ID: <pan.2003.07.08.15.49.14.537053@sdf-eu.org>

Hey,
here's my piece of code :

class HtmlWindow(wxHtmlWindow):
   def __init__(self,parent,id):
       wxHtmlWindow.__init__(self,parent,id)


class channelTree(wxTreeCtrl):
   def __init__(self,parent,id):
       wxTreeCtrl.__init__(self,parent,id)
       self.root = self.AddRoot("Sites")
       for i in range(len(names)):
           self.AppendItem(self.root,names[i])
       EVT_TREE_SEL_CHANGED(self,105,self.OnCelChanged)

   def OnCelChanged(self,event):
       item = event.GetItem()
       print self.GetItemText(item)

class MainSplitter(wxSplitterWindow):
   def __init__(self,parent,id):
       wxSplitterWindow.__init__(self,parent,id)
       self.html = HtmlWindow(self,-1)
       self.html.LoadPage("welcome.html")
       self.SplitHorizontally(self.html,wxWindow(self,-1),500)
       self.Show(1)


If you look at the channelTree class I've created a wxTreeCtrl when you
change a sel a execute onCelChanged Now I would like that when you
change a sel he loads an other page into the HtmlWindow. But I don't
really have an idea on how to do this any help ?









From harry.g.george at boeing.com  Tue Jul 15 15:18:05 2003
From: harry.g.george at boeing.com (Harry George)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 19:18:05 GMT
Subject: newbie question: ImportError: No module named Numeric
References: <mailman.1058277923.17259.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <xqxadbf8uqa.fsf@cola2.ca.boeing.com>

rmachne <rmachne at meta.lo-res.org> writes:

> Hi there,
> 
> Sorry, if there is a newbie list or this question is answered in tutorials
> - I tried but without succes :-( -  here is my question:
> Using linux,
> I need the 'Numerical Python' package, and I installed it on my local
> computer (not with the other packages in /usr/local/...) using
> 
> ~/programs/Numeric-23.0>python setup.py install --home=/scratch/raim
> 
> but now the Numeric package / module can't be found:
> 
> ~/programs/Numeric-23.0/Test> python test.py
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "test.py", line 2, in ?
>     import Numeric
> ImportError: No module named Numeric
> Exit 1
> 
>  I couldn't find out which path variable to change or add. Can anyone
> help?
> (Test.py works fine when called from within the lib folder with
> Numeric.py)
> 
> best
> rainer
> 

You can set an env variable:
export PYTHONPATH=/scratch/raim
(or whatever your shell syntax is)

This adds the path to your normal defaults.

You can also do this 'export' in a shell script which runs the
application.  This is useful if you have several variants of a given
module, and want to use one or the other in a specific case.


-- 
harry.g.george at boeing.com
6-6M31 Knowledge Management
Phone: (425) 294-8757



From andy at wild-flower.co.uk  Sat Jul 19 08:28:39 2003
From: andy at wild-flower.co.uk (Andy Jewell)
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 13:28:39 +0100
Subject: using functions and file renaming problem
In-Reply-To: <3F1871A5.3020702@hotmail.com>
References: <3F174E76.4000302@hotmail.com> <mailman.1058531368.14359.python-list@python.org> <3F1871A5.3020702@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <200307191328.39732.andy@wild-flower.co.uk>

On Friday 18 Jul 2003 11:16 pm, hokiegal99 wrote:
> Thanks again for the help Andy! One last question: What is the advantage
> of placing code in a function? I don't see how having this bit of code
> in a function improves it any. Could someone explain this?
>
> Thanks!
8<--- (old quotes)

The 'benefit' of functions is only really reaped when you have a specific need 
for them!  You don't *have* to use them if you don't *need* to (but they can 
still improve the readability of your code).  

Consider the following contrived example:

----------8<------------
# somewhere in the dark recesses of a large project...
. . . 
for filename in os.listdir(cfg.userdir):
    newname = filename
    for ch in cfg.badchars:
        newname.replace(ch,"-")
    if newname != filename:
        os.rename(os.path.join(cfg.userdir,filename),
                           os.path.join(cfg.userdir,newname)
. . .
. . .
# in another dark corner...

. . . 
for filename in os.listdir(cfg.tempdir):
    newname = filename
    for ch in cfg.badchars:
        newname.replace(ch,"-")
    if newname != filename:
        os.rename(os.path.join(cfg.userdir,filename),
                           os.path.join(cfg.userdir,newname)
. . .
# somewhere else...

. . . 
for filename in os.listdir(cfg.extradir):
    newname = filename
    for ch in cfg.badchars: 
        newname.replace(ch,"-")
    if newname != filename:
        os.rename(os.path.join(cfg.userdir,filename),
                           os.path.join(cfg.userdir,newname)
. . .
----------8<------------

See the repetition? ;-)

Imagine a situation where you need to do something far more complicated over, 
and over again...  It's not very programmer efficient, and it makes the code 
longer, too - thus costing more to write (time) and more to store (disks).

Imagine having to change the behaviour of this 'hard-coded' routine, and what 
would happen if you missed one... however, if it is in a function, you only 
have *one* place to change it.

When we generalise the algorithm and put it into a function we can do:

----------8<------------

. . .
. . .

# somewhere near the top of the project code...
def cleanup_filenames(dir):

    """ renames any files within dir that contain bad characters 
        (ie. ones in cfg.badchars).  Does not walk the directory tree.
    """

    for filename in os.listdir(dir):
        newname = filename
        for ch in cfg.badchars:
            newname.replace(ch,"-")
        if newname != filename:
            os.rename(os.path.join(cfg.userdir,filename),
                               os.path.join(cfg.userdir,newname)

. . .
. . .

# somewhere in the dark recesses of a large project...
. . . 
cleanup_filenames(cfg.userdir)
. . .
. . .
# in another dark corner...
. . . 
cleanup_filenames(cfg.tempdir)
. . .
# somewhere else...
. . . 
cleanup_filenames(cfg.extradir)
. . .

----------8<------------

Even in this small, contrived example, we've saved about 13 lines of code (ok, 
that's notwithstanding the blank lines and  the """ docstring """ at the top 
of the function).

There's another twist, too.  In the docstring for cleanup_filenames it says 
"Does not walk the directory tree." because we didn't code it to deal with 
subdirectories.  But we could, without using os.walk...

Directories form a tree structure, and the easiest way to process trees is by 
using /recursion/, which means functions that call themselves.  An old 
programmer's joke is this:

    Recursion, defn.  [if not understood] see Recursion.

Each time you call a function, it gets a brand new environment, called the 
'local scope'.  All variables inside this scope are private; they may have 
the same names, but they refer to different objects.  This can be really 
handy...

----------8<------------

def cleanup_filenames(dir):

    """ renames any files within dir that contain bad characters 
        (ie. ones in cfg.badchars).  Walks the directory tree to process
        subdirectories.
    """

    for filename in os.listdir(dir):
        newname = filename
        for ch in cfg.badchars:
            newname.replace(ch,"-")
        if newname != filename:
            os.rename(os.path.join(cfg.userdir,filename),
                               os.path.join(cfg.userdir,newname)
        # recurse if subdirectory...
        if os.path.isdir(os.path.join(cfg.userdir,newname)):
            cleanup_filenames(os.path.join(cfg.userdir,newname))

----------8<------------

This version *DOES* deal with subdirectories...  with only two extra lines, 
too!  Trying to write this without recursion would be a nightmare (even in 
Python).

A very important thing to note, however, is that there is a HARD LIMIT on the 
number of times a function can call itself, called the RecursionLimit:

----------8<------------
>>>n=1
>>>def rec():
        n=n+1
        rec()

>>>rec()
. . .
(huge traceback list)
. . .
RuntimeError: maximum recursion limit reached.
>>>n
991
----------8<------------

Another very important thing about recursion is that a recursive function 
should *ALWAYS* have a 'get-out-clause', a condition that stops the 
recursion.  Guess what happens if you don't have one ... ;-) 

Finally (at least for now), functions also provide a way to break down your 
code into logical sections.  Many programmers will write the higher level 
functions first, delegating 'complicated bits' to further sub-functions as 
they go, and worry about implementing them once they've got the overall 
algorithm finished.  This allows one to concentrate on the right level of 
detail, rather than getting bogged down in the finer points: you just make up 
names for functions that you're *going* to implement later.  Sometimes, you 
might make a 'stub' like:

def doofer(dooby, doo):
    pass

so that your program is /syntactically/ correct, and will run (to a certain 
degree).  This allows debugging to proceed before you have written 
everything.  You'd do this for functions which aren't *essential* to the 
program, but maybe add 'special features', for example, additonal 
error-checking or output formatting.

A sort of extension of the function  idea is 'modules', which make functions 
and other objects available to other 'client' programs.  When you say:

import os

you are effectively adding all the functions and objects of the os module into 
your own program, without having to re-write them.  This enables programmers
to share their functions and other code as convenient 'black boxes'.  Modules, 
however, are a slightly more advanced topic.


Hope that helps.

-andyj






From fredrik at pythonware.com  Wed Jul 16 04:29:20 2003
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 10:29:20 +0200
Subject: tkinter
References: <3114992.1058316065@dbforums.com>
Message-ID: <bf346g$8gh$1@main.gmane.org>

"sprmn" <member33375 at dbforums.com> wrote:

> does anyone know of any sites with good tutorials on tkinter
> on them?

start here:

    http://www.python.org/topics/tkinter/

</F>







From tekkamangoogle at yahoo.com  Thu Jul 31 13:30:51 2003
From: tekkamangoogle at yahoo.com (barry g)
Date: 31 Jul 2003 10:30:51 -0700
Subject: Win32All InvokeTypes exception after upgrade
Message-ID: <cd48c1f6.0307310930.571325a9@posting.google.com>

When trying to upgrade my Win32All package from build 148, that came
in the ActiveState install, to any of v150 thru v156 I start receiving
an exception.  It apparently is related to the "output arguments" in
the ActiveX control's methods.  If I leave the output parameters off I
get the message at the bottom.  If I fill the arguments the function
performs happily.

Am I missing some step or setting that makes the output parameters
optional again?  I could change all my code to supply dummy values,
but we have a large enough number of COM controls and function calls
that I'd prefer to maintain the old calling style if possible.

obj.DeviceToLatLon(x,y,10,10) #works in either 148 or 156 
(35.453, -75.2214) 

obj.DeviceToLatLon(x,y) #used to return a tuple - now generates
exception
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "ChartNotebook.py", line 978, in OnMouseMove
    lat, lon = obj.DeviceToLatLon(x, y)
  File "C:\Python22\lib\site-packages\win32com\gen_py\8754AEB3-1466-11D4-A779-0050DA6B8675x0x1x2.py",
line 62, in DeviceToLatLon
    return self._oleobj_.InvokeTypes(37, LCID, 1, (24, 0), ((3, 0),
(3, 0), (16389, 0), (16389, 0)),x, y, lat, lon)
com_error: (-2147352571, 'Type mismatch.', None, 3)


Thanks,
Barry



From bdelmee at advalvas.REMOVEME.be  Sat Jul 12 09:40:18 2003
From: bdelmee at advalvas.REMOVEME.be (Bernard Delmée)
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 15:40:18 +0200
Subject: Old post about XML overhyped
References: <yASPa.33811$qa5.751050@news2.tin.it>
Message-ID: <3f100fe2$0$6529$afc38c87@sisyphus.news.be.easynet.net>

> i'm googling for an old post appeared here about XML overhyped.

Could you possibly be referring to this here thread:

http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2003-June/169716.html

Cheers,

Bernard.






From martin at v.loewis.de  Sun Jul 20 16:56:47 2003
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-15?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 20 Jul 2003 22:56:47 +0200
Subject: A challenge to the ASCII proponents.
References: <mailman.1058278343.23104.python-list@python.org> <bf167a$pvt$1@panix2.panix.com> <ufzl7rdno.fsf@online.no> <3F142A58.80426AA4@hotmail.com> <2259b0e2.0307161620.4a9353f1@posting.google.com> <Xns93BB246FDDBCFJanC@213.118.75.80> <3F168011.3AEB3EFC@hotmail.com> <3F172442.2040907@v.loewis.de> <oprsg8jf1xttxc4i@news.t-online.de> <3F195CC4.D426E416@hotmail.com> <slrnbhjm31.tp.bignose-hates-spam@rose.localdomain.fake> <3F1AA450.765D07FD@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <m33ch0or1s.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Alan Kennedy <alanmk at hotmail.com> writes:

> Hmm, I fail to see the connection here. Fair enough, I made a mistake
> in structuring my original xml snippet. I didn't attempt to address
> the fact there are still some browsers out there that don't do XML.

You should consider that this is Usenet, though (atleast for those of
use who read comp.lang.python instead of python-list at python.org). I
don't even use a Web browser to read your message, or to reply to it.
And I definitely don't want to have HTML in email or usenet messages,
since my software cannot display it at all.

Regards,
Martin



From mwilson at the-wire.com  Sun Jul  6 11:05:35 2003
From: mwilson at the-wire.com (Mel Wilson)
Date: Sun, 06 Jul 2003 11:05:35 -0400
Subject: Collective memory
References: <mailman.1057083728.8224.python-list@python.org>
 <vg88va53uha8e@corp.supernews.com> <hff5eb.e9h.ln@escape.shannon.net>
 <3F082031.3010503@netscape.netNOTthisBIT>
Message-ID: </qDC/ks/KP5G089yn@the-wire.com>

In article <3F082031.3010503 at netscape.netNOTthisBIT>,
Donald 'Paddy' McCarthy <paddy3118 at netscape.netNOTthisBIT> wrote:
>Charles Shannon Hendrix wrote:
>> Python uses it for actually determining the logic in your program, which
>> IMHO is dangerous.
>>
>>     if <something>
>>         <work>
>>         <more work>
>>         <add numbers>
>>
>> Is <add numbers> part of the if statement, or did someone with different
>> tab settings from the author make a mistake and align it accidentally?
>Well, no matter WHAT the language, I find tabs are evil little things
>that introduce special cases and the need for code to handle them.
>That said though, I find python block structure (sans tabs), just fine
>thanks.

   The C equivalent is to hide a `;}` in the middle of what
looks like a huge function call.

>It would be nice if tabs as indentation for Python was deprecated but
>failing that, If you don't use tabs, its wonderful.

   If you only use tabs it's also wonderful.  The worldwide
Python community has settled on spaces.  I expand tabs in
any code I share with the world, and everybody seems happy.

        Regards.        Mel.



From appleseed-cast at breathe.com  Wed Jul  2 12:46:32 2003
From: appleseed-cast at breathe.com (paul h)
Date: 2 Jul 2003 09:46:32 -0700
Subject: what is self?
Message-ID: <6071d159.0307020846.7653afaa@posting.google.com>

hi there,
i've been programming cgi with python for a couple of months now, and
i am now moving into some gui programming, using pygtk2.
looking into the code, i see a lot of references to "self" ie
self.window = ...
however, i have no idea what self is?
can anyone enlighten me...
thanks very much...

-- 
paul



From proto at panix.com  Sat Jul 12 15:37:34 2003
From: proto at panix.com (Walter Bushell)
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 15:37:34 -0400
Subject: Collective memory
References: <mailman.1057083728.8224.python-list@python.org> <vg88va53uha8e@corp.supernews.com> <3F09F136.6060000@srv.net> <3F0B2857.6EE3A30F@ev1.net> <1fxw51u.2b4m6zc39wulN%proto@panix.com> <slrnbgt6ls.ab5.abigail@alexandra.abigail.nl> <vgvth12c4qoma7@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <1fxzcfa.1hreb3q17skz74N%proto@panix.com>

John Roth <newsgroups at jhrothjr.com> wrote:

> "Abigail" <abigail at abigail.nl> wrote in message
> news:slrnbgt6ls.ab5.abigail at alexandra.abigail.nl...
> > Walter Bushell (proto at panix.com) wrote on MMMDC September MCMXCIII in
> > <URL:news:1fxw51u.2b4m6zc39wulN%proto at panix.com>:
> > ++  Charles Richmond <richmond at ev1.net> wrote:
> > ++ <Snip>
> > ++ > int  *p, x, y;
> > ++ >
> > ++ > then:
> > ++ >
> > ++ >     y = x/*p;
> > ++ >
> > ++ > is quite different from:
> > ++ >
> > ++ >     y = x / *p;
> > ++ >
> > ++ > The first way, "/*" will begin a comment...the second way,
> > ++ > you get the integer "x" divided by the integer pointed to by "p".
> > ++
> > ++  Ouch!! That is one reason code coloring is *important*.
> >
> > Nope. That's a reason why code colouring is evil. If you write code,
> > and it isn't clear what you mean without the use of code colouring,
> > you did something wrong. Your code shouldn't rely on a specific code
> > colouring scheme to be understandable.
> 
> This assumes that someone reading the code is going to be using
> a brain-dead editor. We need to get beyond that some day, and
> assume that people are going to be using decent tools.
> 
> John Roth

Of course, we have to consider color blind programmers.

Well we shouldn't have a single space making such a difference,
particuarly when white space does not usually matter, in an arithmetic s
tatement no less. Division by the integer pointer to by p and the
beginning of a comment in something that is rather large.

Something like this 

  y = x/*p++ +expression;

Above will be caught usually by results I presume

However, how strings are implemented in quoted strings and the standard
library is a nightmare.  

> >
> > All in my opinion of course.
> >
> >
> > Abigail


-- 
The last temptation is the highest treason: 
To do the right thing for the wrong reason.  --T..S. Eliot

Walter



From harrisonrj at ornl.gov  Tue Jul 15 23:43:04 2003
From: harrisonrj at ornl.gov (Robert Harrison)
Date: 15 Jul 2003 20:43:04 -0700
Subject: c/c++ implementation of python base and derived class
Message-ID: <521f96c7.0307151943.7d987b2@posting.google.com>

Can anyone point me to an example of how,
in C or C++, to 

  1) implement a new-style Python class, and
  2) derive another new class from it?

I think that I've managed to do 1) correctly,
but 2) eludes both me and google.

  Thanks in advance

  Robert



From ianb at colorstudy.com  Fri Jul 25 13:48:19 2003
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: 25 Jul 2003 12:48:19 -0500
Subject: path module
In-Reply-To: <11234c14.0307211016.344d40bc@posting.google.com>
References: <1057651068.5348.386.camel@lothlorien>
	 <20030708113219.H6906@prim.han.de>
	 <mailman.1057686613.6463.python-list@python.org>
	 <11234c14.0307211016.344d40bc@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1059155299.28090.10746.camel@lothlorien>

On Mon, 2003-07-21 at 13:16, Jason Orendorff wrote:
> Ian and Holger wondered why 'path' should subclass 'str'.  It's because
> a path is a string.  Benefit: you can pass 'path' objects to functions
> that expect strings (like functions in 'win32file').  I find this
> really useful in practice.

I feel like this would lead to some annoying behavior in some
circumstances.  Most particularly, I'm thinking of:

def dosomething(file):
    if type(file) is type(""):
        file = open(file)
    ...

This isn't uncommon in functions that take pathnames or file objects. 
While isinstance(path, str) works, it was not an option until 2.2.  So
you'd be forced to do str(pathname) sometimes anyway, to deal with this.

Ideally, interfaces would be changed to use a .open() method on the path
instead of opening the string representation (as Holger's implementation
does), so in the long term it would be nice to abandon direct string
representations entirely.  It would also make it more clear when you had
a real path object and when you just had a string.

  Ian






From irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl  Mon Jul  7 14:05:48 2003
From: irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 20:05:48 +0200
Subject: looking for UDP package, network programming guidance
In-Reply-To: <uj8jgvsrbop1lhem5t743gv9pvuh7ig6l1@4ax.com>
References: <uj8jgvsrbop1lhem5t743gv9pvuh7ig6l1@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3f09b678$0$49113$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

Tom Plunket wrote:

> running, but now the stumbling block comes up that Python doesn't
> seem to have any UDP handling built into its distribution.

You didn't look hard enough. Check out the SocketServer module:
http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/module-SocketServer.html

Also, what *exactly* do you mean by "UDP handling"?
Python is perfectly capable of creating and using sockets
for the TCP *and* UDP protocols.

> Additionally, the networking protocol is a fixed format packed
> bytes sort of thing; is it easy enough in Python (with Twisted)
> to read bytes off of the stream and then decide what to do with
> them?  (I'm a Python newbie but somewhat of a C++ pro.)

It should be fairly easy to decypher the binary protocol using
the array or struct modules:
http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/module-array.html
http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/module-struct.html

You might also want to read the Python-socket-programming-howto:
http://www.amk.ca/python/howto/sockets/sockets.html

I generally find it much easier to do network/socket related
stuff in Python than in other languages such as C or Java.

If you still encounter difficulties, don't hesitate to post!

--Irmen de Jong





From gh at ghaering.de  Fri Jul 18 06:35:38 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-15?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 12:35:38 +0200
Subject: Using Unicode scripts
In-Reply-To: <3f17c520$0$7194$626a54ce@news.free.fr>
References: <3f17c520$0$7194$626a54ce@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <3F17CD7A.2010507@ghaering.de>

yzzzzz wrote:
> Hi,

Hi "yzzzzz",

> I am writing my python programs using a Unicode text editor. The files are
> encoded in UTF-8. Python's default encoding seems to be Latin 1 (ISO-8859-1)
> or maybe Windows-1252 (CP1252) which aren't compatible with UTF-8.
> 
> For example, if I type print "?", it prints ??. If I use a unicode string:
> a=u"?" and if I choose to encode it in UTF-8, I get 4 Latin 1 characters,
> which makes sense if the interpreter thinks I typed in u"??".
> 
> How can I solve this problem?

You might want to read the thread on this list/newsgroup I started 
yesterday called "Unicode problem"

Is it feasible for you to upgrade to Python 2.3? If so I'd recommend you 
do it already. 2.3 is pretty close to release now and it has support for 
source files in Unicode format. If your Unicode editor saves the text 
file with a BOM (it should) then under Python 2.3 your scripts will work 
as expected.

> Thank you
> 
> PS. I have no problem using Unicode strings in Python, I know how to
> manipulate and convert them, I'm just looking for how to specify the default
> encoding for the scripts I write.

See http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0263.html This is how it is 
implemented in Python 2.3.

-- Gerhard




From jane.doe at acme.com  Thu Jul 24 15:00:43 2003
From: jane.doe at acme.com (Jane Doe)
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 21:00:43 +0200
Subject: [newbie] MySQL : How to check if no row returned?
Message-ID: <5ua0ivcl3loh45cq6pnoimsoa86nt0q4db@4ax.com>

Hi

(newbie, please don't flame, thank you :-))

I browsed through the archives of this site, but I didn't see how to
check if a SELECT through the MySql module returns an empty set
(whether a row exists or not, the "else" part below is always called).

Here's what I tried (using the CherryPy framework):

CherryClass MyDb2(MySql):
function:
    def __init__(self):
        self.openConnection('localhost', 'root', 'test', 'mydb')

[...]

# txtClient is returned by an HTML form
myarray = myDb2.query("select * from clients where name='" +
kw['txtClient'] + "'")

# Never empty!!!
if myarray == None:
	res+="<td>No client found.</td>"
else:
	res+=self.myview(myarray)

Any tip much appreciated

Thank you
JD.



From tomg at em.ca  Thu Jul 17 12:48:55 2003
From: tomg at em.ca (Tom Goulet)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 16:48:55 -0000
Subject: hex to signed integer
References: <vhbq0kr6ftvr0e@corp.supernews.com> <9j6chvoep7k34fbqutvp364lghnmmohrsj@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <vhdkrnq3ucf2ad@corp.supernews.com>

Tim Roberts wrote:
> Tom Goulet <tomg at em.ca> wrote:
 
>>I want to convert a string of hexadecimal characters to the signed
>>integer they would have been before the <print> statement converted
>>them.  How do I do this in such a way that is compatible with Python
>>versions 1.5.2 through 2.4, and not machine-dependent?

>   if hexbit[0] < '8':
>     temp = int(hexbit,16)
>   else:
>     temp = int(long(hexbit,16)-2**32)

The <int> function takes only one argument in Python 1.5.2.

-- 
Tom Goulet, tomg at em.ca, D8BAD3BC, http://web.em.ca/~tomg/contact.html



From clausd at io.dk  Tue Jul  8 03:45:46 2003
From: clausd at io.dk (Claus D)
Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 09:45:46 +0200
Subject: Europython recordings?
Message-ID: <bedsrm$2llu$1@news.cybercity.dk>

Did anyone record the europython sessions? Apparently, Hunter hasn't 
recieved a single reply from his effords to coordinate this...

/cd




From martin at v.loewis.de  Thu Jul 31 02:29:26 2003
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-15?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 31 Jul 2003 08:29:26 +0200
Subject: Python speed vs csharp
References: <rkdc7poiachh.1x4jtxjzaf3zo.dlg@40tude.net>
Message-ID: <m3smonmcop.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Mike <mike at nospam.com> writes:

> My first question is, why is the Python code, at 210 seconds, so much
> slower?

One would have to perform profiling, but in this case, it is likely
because numbers are objects in Python, so each multiplication results
in a memory allocation. In addition, as soon as the parameters of the
multiplication are not needed anymore, you get a deallocation of the
temporaries.

There is also an overhead for the byte code interpretation, but this
is likely less significant.

> My second question is, is there anything that can be done to get Python's
> speed close to the speed of C#?

C# implementations typically do just-in-time compilation to machine
code. They represent numbers as primitive (machine) values, directly
using machine operations for the multiplication. Doing the same for
Python is tricky.

I recommend that you try out Python 2.3. It has significantly improved
memory allocation mechanisms, so you should see some speed-up.

You could also try Psyco, which is a just-in-time compiler for
Python. It should give very good results in this case, also.

Regards,
Martin




From duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk  Mon Jul 14 12:08:08 2003
From: duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk (Duncan Booth)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 16:08:08 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Accessing an instance's __init__ args from outside the class
References: <sfAQa.21645$O55.673402@wagner.videotron.net>
Message-ID: <Xns93B8AC76381A5duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

"Alexander Eberts" <alex_eberts at videotron.ca> wrote in
news:sfAQa.21645$O55.673402 at wagner.videotron.net: 

>  Is there any way to find out what arguments an object was called
> with?

Not in general.

> Are the args stored with the instance?

It depends on the object type. Some objects may save some or all of the 
arguments to the constructor, but it is up to each object to decide what to 
do with its arguments. If you create your own class, and want to be able to 
refer to the __init__ arguments after returning from __init__, then you 
must save the arguments in the object.

So, for your original example you could do:

>>> class Foo:
    def __init__(self, *args):
        self.args = args
        print args                        # no problem here

        
>>> someobj = Foo('bar', 'bleck')
('bar', 'bleck')
>>> someobj.args
('bar', 'bleck')

-- 
Duncan Booth                                             duncan at rcp.co.uk
int month(char *p){return(124864/((p[0]+p[1]-p[2]&0x1f)+1)%12)["\5\x8\3"
"\6\7\xb\1\x9\xa\2\0\4"];} // Who said my code was obscure?



From jack at performancedrivers.com  Sun Jul 13 17:16:55 2003
From: jack at performancedrivers.com (Jack Diederich)
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 17:16:55 -0400
Subject: anything like C++ references?
In-Reply-To: <1058126738.28456.424.camel@lothlorien>; from ianb@colorstudy.com on Sun, Jul 13, 2003 at 03:05:38PM -0500
References: <13t0hvsb7idh0g6ac3upe5k0qd6flc17ah@4ax.com> <pan.2003.07.13.10.58.11.376531@127.0.0.1> <lq-cnWRG9rRuMIyiXTWJjQ@comcast.com> <b8c3hvsesjoumiboobml3nsnajtha99mp1@4ax.com> <1058126738.28456.424.camel@lothlorien>
Message-ID: <20030713171654.A1005@localhost.localdomain>

On Sun, Jul 13, 2003 at 03:05:38PM -0500, Ian Bicking wrote:
> On Sun, 2003-07-13 at 14:39, Stephen Horne wrote:
> > The fact is that 'assignment' has a common meaning separate from the
> > choice of programming language, 
> 
> This just isn't true.  The C++ assignment operator is not at all like
> the Python assignment statement.  Python variables are not like C++
> variables, no surprise assignment is different too.  If you used
> languages outside of C++ and its like (e.g., Pascal), you would find
> Python's behavior common.
> 

C++ is the only language that has the same semantics as C++.

I was a long time C++ guy and my a-ha moment was when I realized that the
GoF's "Design Patterns" were not all universal -- some are C++ specific.
Trying to force Python semantics into a C++ world view will leave you feeling
empty every time.  Drink the koolaid, python has a short learning curve.  
If this is a problem - whatever you do - DONT TRY TO LEARN LISP.

If you want a more polished C++, use Java.  Python is in a different class
of languages.

-jack




From mwilson at the-wire.com  Wed Jul 16 17:01:23 2003
From: mwilson at the-wire.com (Mel Wilson)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 17:01:23 -0400
Subject: Augmented Assignment question
References: <215bhv0bnkn13eivh0s64ic5ml8obpgfg7@4ax.com>
 <20030716132455272-0600@news.xmission.com>
Message-ID: <j0bF/ks/K3gM089yn@the-wire.com>

In article <20030716132455272-0600 at news.xmission.com>,
Adam Ruth <owski at hotmail.com> wrote:
>As a side note, I wouldn't have thought that the augmented assign would
>work the way you tried to use it.  I would have thought that it would be
>analagous to the + operator and sequences:
>
>>	x = [1,2,3]
>>	y = [1,2,3]
>>	x + y
>[1,2,3,1,2,3]
>
>So that the agumented form would be:
>
>>	x = [1,2,3]
>>	x += [1,2,3]
>[1,2,3,1,2,3]
>
>But I've never tried it before and didn't know that it didn't work with
>sequences.  You learn something new every day.

It does:

>>> def multi():
...     return 4, 5, 6
...
>>> a = (1,2,3)
>>> a += multi()
>>> a
(1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6)

It seems to be just that += refuses to work with tuple unpacking.

        Regards.        Mel.



From and-google at doxdesk.com  Sat Jul  5 14:07:53 2003
From: and-google at doxdesk.com (Andrew Clover)
Date: 5 Jul 2003 11:07:53 -0700
Subject: Python's CGI and Javascripts uriEncode: A disconnect.
References: <m3smpqw0qf.fsf@drizzle.com>
Message-ID: <2c60a528.0307051007.bc1c98b@posting.google.com>

Elf M. Sternberg <elf at drizzle.com> wrote:

> Netscape (and possibly even earlier browsers like Mosaic) used the
> plus symbol '+' as a substitute for the space in the last part of
> the URI

This is correct in a query parameter. eg. in ...?foo=abc+def, the symbol
is a space.

This is part of the specification for the media type
application/x-www-form-urlencoded, defined by HTML itself (section
17.13.4.1 of the 4.01 spec). This states that spaces should normally
be encoded as '+', however really using '%20' is just as good and
causes less confusion, so that's what newer browsers (and I) do.

Elsewhere, spaces should not be encoded as '+'.

The reasoning for this initial decision is unclear - presumably it is
intended to improve readability, but URIs with query parts are
generally not going to be very readable anyway.

> The ECMA-262 "Javascript" standard now supported by both Netscape and
> Internet Explorer honor RFC 2396, translating spaces into their hex
> equivalent %20 and leaving pluses alone.

Depends which function you are talking about. The 'escape' and 'encodeURI'
built-in functions are not designed to encode single URI query parameter
values, they're designed to encode larger chunks of URI. As such they do
not need to encode plus characters.

The encodeURIComponent function *does*, and it is this function that you
should use if you want some JavaScript code to submit a query parameter.

The only drawback is that encodeURIComponent is relatively new, so you
won't find it on medium-old browsers like Netscape 4 and IE 5.0. (The
same goes for encodeURI - you only get 'escape' in older browsers.)

> The Python library cgi.FieldStorage decodes it backwards, expecting
> pluses to be spaces and %2b to represent pluses.

The Python library is correct per spec. If your scripts are not encoding
plus symbols in query parameters to %2B, they are at fault (and will go
equally wrong in any other language).

Possible solutions:

  a. use encodeURIComponent() instead. This is best, but won't work
     universally.
  b. use escape(), then replace any pluses in its output with %2B. This
     is OK, but won't handle Unicode properly or predictably. (note: in IE,
     encodeURI() also fails to handle Unicode predictably.)
  c. roll your own encodeURIComponent function.

It's a bit off-topic for c.l.py, but here's a (c.)-style solution I've used
before:

  function encPar(wide) {
    var narrow= encUtf8(wide);
    var enc= '';
    for (var i= 0; i<narrow.length; i++) {
      if (encPar_OK.indexOf(narrow.charAt(i))==-1)
        enc= enc+encHex2(narrow.charCodeAt(i));
      else
        enc= enc+narrow.charAt(i);
    }
    return enc;
  }
  var encPar_OK= 'abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyzABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ'+
                 '0123456789*@-_./';

  function encHex2(v) {
    return '%'+encHex2_DIGITS.charAt(v>>>4)+encHex2_DIGITS.charAt(v&0xF);
  }
  var encHex2_DIGITS= '0123456789ABCDEF';

  function encUtf8(wide) {
    var c, s;
    var enc= '';
    var i= 0;
    while(i<wide.length) {
      c= wide.charCodeAt(i++);
      // handle UTF-16 surrogates
      if (c>=0xDC00 && c<0xE000) continue;
      if (c>=0xD800 && c<0xDC00) {
        if (i>=wide.length) continue;
        s= wide.charCodeAt(i++);
        if (s<0xDC00 || c>=0xDE00) continue;
        c= ((c-0xD800)<<10)+(s-0xDC00)+0x10000;
      }
      // output value
      if (c<0x80) enc+=
        String.fromCharCode(c);
      else if (c<0x800) enc+=
        String.fromCharCode(0xC0+(c>>6),0x80+(c&0x3F));
      else if (c<0x10000) enc+=
        String.fromCharCode(0xE0+(c>>12),0x80+(c>>6&0x3F),0x80+(c&0x3F));
      else enc+=
        String.fromCharCode(0xF0+(c>>18),0x80+(c>>12&0x3F),
        0x80+(c>>6&0x3F),0x80+(c&0x3F));
    }
    return enc;
  }

if that's of any use.

Kind of sucks having to do this, eh?

-- 
Andrew Clover
mailto:and at doxdesk.com
http://www.doxdesk.com/



From m at moshez.org  Thu Jul 24 17:51:48 2003
From: m at moshez.org (Moshe Zadka)
Date: 24 Jul 2003 21:51:48 -0000
Subject: SSH and Windows
In-Reply-To: <3F20353C.1090004@blueapples.org>
References: <3F20353C.1090004@blueapples.org>
Message-ID: <20030724215148.22651.qmail@green.zadka.com>

On Thu, 24 Jul 2003, Isaac Raway <isaac at blueapples.org> wrote:

> I'm looking for a library 
> that behaves similarly to telnetlib for SSH connections.
...
> Windows 
...

Well, Twisted has conch which is ssh implemented in Python, but it's
API is not much like telnetlib. In order to use it, you'll want to
compile PyCrypto. 
-- 
Moshe Zadka -- http://moshez.org/
Buffy: I don't like you hanging out with someone that... short.
Riley: Yeah, a lot of young people nowadays are experimenting with shortness.
Agile Programming Language -- http://www.python.org/




From mcfletch at rogers.com  Sat Jul 19 11:49:25 2003
From: mcfletch at rogers.com (Mike C. Fletcher)
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 11:49:25 -0400
Subject: properties + types, implementing meta-class desciptors elegantly?
In-Reply-To: <2259b0e2.0307190640.56266017@posting.google.com>
References: <mailman.1058532630.7342.python-list@python.org> <bfa97g$s5j$0@216.39.172.122> <2259b0e2.0307190640.56266017@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3F196885.4050606@rogers.com>

Michele Simionato wrote:
...

>I agree with Bengt, from your traceback it seems you are assigning directly
>to client.__dict__, but you cannot do that (I think because client.__dict__
>is a dictproxy object and not a real dictionary). The right way to
>go is via object.__setattr__ , or type.__setattr__ in the case of
>metaclasses.
>
Try this to see what I'm getting at:

 >>> class o(object):
...     class p( object ):
...         def __set__( self, client, value, *args, **named ):
...             print '__set__', self, client, value, args, named
...             # now what do you do here to set without triggering 
ourselves
...             # (without having to code diff versions of the 
descriptor class
...             # for each possible type of client object (and for that 
matter, just
...             # making it possible for (meta-)types with properties 
w/out requiring
...             # e.g. a new dict object in each such serviced type))?.
...             return object.__setattr__( client, "v", value)
...     v = p()
...
 >>> s = o()
 >>> s.v = 3

You'll notice you go into an infinite loop.  What I'm looking for 
(really a thinly veiled attempt to get other people to demand it from 
Guido so he doesn't think I'm a lone crackpot ;) ) is a function/method 
that provides the default implementation of the get/set functionality 
*below* the level of the descriptor hooks, but high enough that it can 
deal with the differences between classes, types, instances, and 
instances-with-__slots__ (I realise that last one probably isn't going 
to work, BTW).

Thought of another way, it's asking for a superclass of descriptors 
which provides this logic in such a way that, by sub-classing from them, 
you can readily gain access to this descriptor-building functionality 
without needing to always use it, and without introducing unwanted 
restrictions (such as requiring a property-class initialisation).

Thought of another way, it's asking for a further rationalisation of the 
get/set hooks so that there's a lower level at which you can either 
insert storage code *or* use the default storage code.

>I guess you are aware of the metaclass+properties recipes in the
>on-line cookbook, but just in case ...
>
Hadn't looked at them, have now, there's nothing which addresses this 
particular issue that I can see with a search for metaclass.  Willing to 
be proved wrong :) .

Have fun,
Mike

_______________________________________
  Mike C. Fletcher
  Designer, VR Plumber, Coder
  http://members.rogers.com/mcfletch/







From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Mon Jul 14 04:03:19 2003
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 09:03:19 +0100
Subject: floating point control in extensions
References: <92tOKLARvSE$Ewh9@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
 <mailman.1058119520.21914.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <dioGfKAHPmE$Ewk6@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>

In article <mailman.1058119520.21914.python-list at python.org>, Tim Peters
<tim.one at comcast.net> writes
......
>Python itself assumes that no-stop mode is in effect (the IEEE-754 mandated
>default:  all FPU traps are disabled).
>
.... 
That at least makes resetting easy when one can do it.



I guessed all Python floating point ops are tested either pre or post
for the correct outcome, but then I tried

>>> a=1e290
>>> a
1.0000000000000001e+290
>>> a*a1.#INF
>>> 

so I suppose only the obvious things are tested.
-it's hard being an fpu'ly yrs- 
Robin Becker



From skip at pobox.com  Fri Jul 25 16:05:10 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 15:05:10 -0500
Subject: Beefing up socket.ssl(...)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SOL.4.53L.0307251453400.8134@mahler.udel.edu>
References: <ZPaUa.6$gZ.133@news.oracle.com>
        <84e0f331.0307251036.6504b16a@posting.google.com>
        <Pine.SOL.4.53L.0307251453400.8134@mahler.udel.edu>
Message-ID: <16161.36214.435946.860897@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    Ed> From looking at Modules/socketmodule.c in 2.2.2 and 2.2.3, it
    Ed> appears that only a tiny bit of support for SSL has been added.
    Ed> Specifically, unless I'm misunderstanding the operation of the code,
    Ed> there's no way to verify the certificate presented by a server.

Note that since 2.2.3 is just a bugfix release, you shouldn't expect any
increase in functionality.  I'm mildly surprised that you noticed any
functional changes between 2.2.2 and 2.2.3.

I suggest you take 2.3c2 out for a spin and see if it has more of the
features you're after.  (2.3final is due out by the end of the month.)  In
any case, if you have patches to submit, please use SourceForge and note
that any functional improvements will be targetted at 2.4 at this point.
You can find more about patch submission at the Patch Submission Guidelines
page:

     http://www.python.org/patches/

Thx,

Skip




From pinard at iro.umontreal.ca  Thu Jul 31 13:23:08 2003
From: pinard at iro.umontreal.ca (Francois Pinard)
Date: 31 Jul 2003 13:23:08 -0400
Subject: Unfortunate exception on dict item assignment (and why aren't slices hashable?)
In-Reply-To: <bgbeje$2nt$1@main.gmane.org>
References: <mailman.1058752171.10243.python-list@python.org>
	<bg5vg6$2d2$1@panix1.panix.com>
	<67fdivk9iu0q1p7nc8smfj1miip3cbvobf@4ax.com>
	<mailman.1059566448.27346.python-list@python.org>
	<bg8jbv$r92$1@panix1.panix.com> <bgbeje$2nt$1@main.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <oqn0euobk3.fsf@alcyon.progiciels-bpi.ca>

[Fredrik Lundh]

> Aahz wrote:
> > (Despite my regular comments on python-dev, I don't contribute
> > code because SF refuses to make changes to allow Lynx to work
> > correctly.)

> maybe someone with an SF account could help you out?

Let me say (and probably repeat) that imposing Web browsers to users,
or bug trackers with sorrow editing interfaces, and asking users to get
acquainted with the classification system and various work idiosyncrasies
of each and every maintainer, package by package, is insane.

The result is that users have either to choose on which few packages they
will specialise on, or else, to merely stop contributing.  In the former
case, a maintainer is building his own specialised crowd, which may be
admittedly good for his project alone.  In the latter case, a maintainer
is pushing users away.  But in all cases, this is an overall social lost.

I miss the times when it was a simple matter to offer contributions,
maybe humble and small, yet possibly numerous, to any package in sight.
Maintainers praising want-to-be-sophisticated machinery should use it all
their soul if they feel like it, but without forcing users into their bag.

-- 
Fran?ois Pinard   http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/~pinard




From theincredibleulk at hotmail.com  Tue Jul  8 06:50:55 2003
From: theincredibleulk at hotmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=DAlfur_Kristj=E1nsson?=)
Date: 8 Jul 2003 03:50:55 -0700
Subject: Embedding as scripting engine
Message-ID: <df361dd5.0307080250.2c76da80@posting.google.com>

Python... a great language, no doubt. And the abillity to be able to
extend it with C/C++ code, fantastic. But has anybody been able to
successfully embed Python in their application to use it as a
scripting language of sorts?

I am in the process of writing a game and from the documentation and
word of mouth gathered that Python would be just the thing for the
scripting part. And sure enough it is easy enough to run Python code
from C/C++. However, in order to be make it do something actually
useful for my game it would be handy to be able to pass in anything
besides the basic data types (strings, numerics) such as either an
instance of or a pointer to a gameobject. What I want to be able to do
is something like this:

GameObject go;

Py_Initialize()
...
PyObject* po = GameObject2PyObject(go);
...
result = PyObject_CallObject(func, "O", po );
...
go = PyObject2GameObject(result);

Theres alot of documentation and discussion out there that suggests
that this should be possible but noone seems to tell you how it's
actually done. Am I just missing something blatantly obvious?

Thanks
//ulk



From nushin2 at yahoo.com  Wed Jul 23 21:56:28 2003
From: nushin2 at yahoo.com (nushin)
Date: 23 Jul 2003 18:56:28 -0700
Subject: How to disable output messages of the child process, in spawnv( )?
References: <db3b6d24.0307231050.74d41e66@posting.google.com> <3f1eddc9$0$160$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
Message-ID: <db3b6d24.0307231756.cff8af9@posting.google.com>

Is there any trick to disable the output of a child process spawned by
spawnv( ) API?

I believe in Python and i am sure there's a way around it. Correct me
if i am wrong.

Regards,
Nushin (BB)

grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards) wrote in message news:<3f1eddc9$0$160$a1866201 at newsreader.visi.com>...
> In article <db3b6d24.0307231050.74d41e66 at posting.google.com>, nushin wrote:
> > I'd like to disable the output of the process spawned by spawnv( )
> > API, but the catch is that i *have to* see the output of the parent
> > process making the  spawnv( ) call. Has anyone done that? I have some
> > pointers that by using dup2( ) API i might be able to do that, any
> > ideas how? Also, i have to spawn as an asynch call, using P_NOWAIT,
> > e.g.,:
> > 
> > os.spawnv(os.P_NOWAIT,'/usr/bin/python',('python','hello.py'),('>/dev/null &'))
> 
> Nope.  
> 
> The ">" and "&" are things that a shell (like bash or ksh)
> handles.  The python interpreter has no idea what to do with
> them.  If you want to use ">" and "&", then spawn a shell, and
> pass it a command to run the python program with output
> redirected.



From sjmachin at lexicon.net  Fri Jul 18 19:27:25 2003
From: sjmachin at lexicon.net (John Machin)
Date: 18 Jul 2003 16:27:25 -0700
Subject: "\n" in ASCII-file
References: <bf8j40$bj4e4$1@ID-108519.news.uni-berlin.de> <mailman.1058527708.11589.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c76ff6fc.0307181527.157927c8@posting.google.com>

Gerhard H?ring <gh at ghaering.de> wrote in message news:<mailman.1058527708.11589.python-list at python.org>...
> Martin P wrote:
> > Hello,
> > 
> > for a short exercise-program I have to read the lines in an ASCII-file.
> > 
> > But every line has a new-line-feed ("\n") at the end of the line. (The
> > ASCII-file was made with Windows Notepad).
> > Is this only because I used Windows (and Notepad)?
> 
> Yes.
> 

I don't understand Gerhard's answer, given the word "only" in the OP's
question.

A file created in the manner described will actually have ASCII CR LF
(carriage return, line feed) at the end of each line. On Unix, the
usual methods of creating a text file will end lines with only LF. On
a Macintosh, only CR.

In all of the 3 above cases, lines read by the usual Python methods
will have the line terminator translated if necessary to LF i.e. "\n".

So, typical text files created on Windows AND Unix will actually have
"\n" at the end of each line, NOT only Windows. Lines read in the
usual fashions by Python from typical text files created on Windows
AND Unix AND Macintosh will (appear to) have "\n" at the end, NOT only
windows.



From gerrit.muller at embeddedsystems.nl  Mon Jul 21 04:30:14 2003
From: gerrit.muller at embeddedsystems.nl (Gerrit Muller)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 10:30:14 +0200
Subject: Python voting demo discussion
References: <KRMSa.112426$Io.9623657@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <3F1BA496.6080305@embeddedsystems.nl>

Alan Dechert wrote:
<...snip...>

> Ian Bicking and Andrew Dalke did say they thought Python should be fine for
> the demo but I didn't get much detail about why we should prefer it over
> some of the other possibilities:  HTML, XML, Perl, Java, PHP, C, C++, C#, C,
> etc.
<...snip...>

The open door answer is that this type of problem can be implemented 
with a low effort in Python, because of:
+ the large amount of available well working packages, such as
storage, networking etcetera
+ the low amount of syntactic overhead

It might well be that you combine a few of the options you mention: do 
you store in an optimized format (binary pickle: very fast and compact), 
or XML (rather bloated, but human and machine readable by any 
application). Python does support these hybrid applications very well, 
allowing you to explore multiple options in your prototype.

Java, C, C++ and C# will require siginificantly more lines of code and 
effort to make. In the end these implementationsmight be faster, but I 
don't see any performance problem at all in your application, even on 
old and slow commodity PC's.

Perl might do the job, has the same benefits as mentioned above. However 
in this newsgroup you will get the consistent answer that Python will 
result in readable solutions and therefor updateable and maintainable 
(even an issue for prototyping!), while Perl is not readable :-)

PHP and (D)HTML are other approaches, focusing more on the UI part of 
the problem. My own work on HTML is always generated by Python scripts :-).

The only missing option is Visual Basic. Again in this newsgroup the 
verdict will be the same: Python will solve it with low effort and 
readable result, while VB quickly becomes a mess :-)

In fact the main recommendation is: simply start in Python. You should 
have something (very simple) working within 1 (one) day, with improved 
implementation following quickly. The importance of having something 
working in one day is to get the iteration going over all different 
requirement aspects and design choices. Ah, tis is my hobbyhorse, see 
a.o. (very long links, will be broken by most newsreaders!) 
http://www.extra.research.philips.com/natlab/sysarch/ArchitecturalReasoningBook.pdf
on page 
http://www.extra.research.philips.com/natlab/sysarch/ArchitecturalReasoning.html

regards Gerrit
-- 
Gaudi systems architecting:
http://www.extra.research.philips.com/natlab/sysarch/




From ffrederik at gmx.de  Mon Jul 28 09:29:23 2003
From: ffrederik at gmx.de (Frederik)
Date: 28 Jul 2003 06:29:23 -0700
Subject: freeze or something else for stand-alone-bins
Message-ID: <f0c1dfd.0307280529.6a145ab5@posting.google.com>

Hello,

in Python 2.2.2 on Windows I cant find the freeze.py program anymore.
On my Linux-machine it?s still in tools - examples. Where can I find
it? Or can you recommend me anything else for creating
stand-alone-binaries?

Thanks,

Frederik



From tim at remove_if_not_spam.digitig.co.uk  Wed Jul 16 11:54:14 2003
From: tim at remove_if_not_spam.digitig.co.uk (Tim Rowe)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 16:54:14 +0100
Subject: Python Quiz
References: <84fc4588.0307152253.20858619@posting.google.com> <3f152bb4$1@mail.hmgcc.gov.uk>
Message-ID: <k8tahvogehgqpb9eble2ml4u4mq5fm0au0@4ax.com>

On Wed, 16 Jul 2003 11:40:52 +0100, "richardc" <richardc at hmgcc.gov.uk>
wrote:

>Should we have the 'Python programming red book' (blue cover), and the
>'Python pocket reference' (a 3000 page tome of a reference book).

All about pockets, of course.



From max at alcyone.com  Wed Jul  9 18:11:41 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 15:11:41 -0700
Subject: ANN: EmPy 3.0.3 -- A powerful and robust templating system for Python
Message-ID: <3F0C931D.C1DDF379@alcyone.com>

Overview

    EmPy is a system for embedding Python expressions and statements
    in template text; it takes an EmPy source file, processes it, and
    produces output.  This is accomplished via expansions, which are
    special signals to the EmPy system and are set off by a special
    prefix (by default the at sign, '@').  EmPy can expand arbitrary
    Python expressions and statements in this way, as well as a
    variety of special forms.  Textual data not explicitly delimited
    in this way is sent unaffected to the output, allowing Python to
    be used in effect as a markup language.  Also supported are
    callbacks via hooks, recording and playback via diversions, and
    dynamic, chainable filters.  The system is highly configurable via
    command line options and embedded commands.

    Expressions are embedded in text with the '@(...)' notation;
    variations include conditional expressions with '@(...?...!...)'
    and the ability to handle thrown exceptions with '@(...$...)'.  As
    a shortcut, simple variables and expressions can be abbreviated as
    '@variable', '@object.attribute', '@function(arguments)',
    '@sequence[index]', and combinations.  Full-fledged statements
    are embedded with '@{...}'.  Control flow in terms of conditional
    or repeated expansion is available with '@[...]'.  A '@' followed
    by a whitespace character (including a newline) expands to
    nothing, allowing string concatenations and line continuations.
    Comments are indicated with '@#' and consume the rest of the line,
    up to and including the trailing newline.  '@%' indicate
    "significators," which are special forms of variable assignment
    intended to specify per-file identification information in a
    format which is easy to parse externally.  Context name and line
    number changes can be done with '@?' and '@!' respectively.
    Escape sequences analogous to those in C can be specified with
    '@\...', and finally a '@@' sequence expands to a single literal
    at sign.


Getting the software

    The current version of empy is 3.0.3.

    The latest version of the software is available in a tarball here:
    http://www.alcyone.com/pyos/empy/empy-latest.tar.gz.

    The official URL for this Web site is
    http://www.alcyone.com/pyos/empy/.


Requirements

    EmPy should work with any version of Python from 1.5.2 onward.  It
    has been tested with all major versions of CPython from 1.5 up,
    and Jython from 2.0 up (using Java runtimes 1.3.0 and 1.4.1).  The
    included test script is intended to run on Unix-like systems with
    a Bourne shell.


License

    This code is released under the GPL.

...

Release history [since 3.0]

    - 3.0.3; 2003 Jul 9.  Fix bug regarding recursive tuple unpacking
      using '@[for]'; add 'empy.saveGlobals', 'empy.restoreGlobals',
      and 'empy.defined' functions.

    - 3.0.2; 2003 Jun 19.  '@?' and '@!' markups for changing the
      current context name and line, respectively; add 'update' method
      to interpreter; new and renamed context operations,
      'empy.setContextName', 'empy.setContextLine',
      'empy.pushContext', 'empy.popContext'.

    - 3.0.1; 2003 Jun 9.  Fix simple bug preventing command line
      preprocessing directives (-I, -D, -E, -F, -P) from executing
      properly; defensive PEP 317 compliance.


-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ You are my martyr / I'm a vestige of a revolution
\__/  Lamya



From max at alcyone.com  Sat Jul 12 07:12:24 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 04:12:24 -0700
Subject: Python Mystery Theatre -- Episode 1:  Exceptions
References: <UiOPa.3259$Y92.1224@nwrdny01.gnilink.net> <3F0FC088.3C56EDEA@alcyone.com> <3F0FD848.849E5D88@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <3F0FED18.E88DC91A@alcyone.com>

Peter Hansen wrote:

> This is probably an example of an error promoted by leaving the
> redundant "raise Class,args" form of exception-raising in Python,
> instead of having a single obvious way: "raise Class(args)" as
> would be more Pythonic. ;-)

But, as I recall, PEP 317 was outright rejected, so it looks like this
will be with us for a long time.

I personally have never had a problem with the distinction, raise C, x
always seemed fairly clean to me even though really what you mean is
raise C(x).

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ I want a martini that could be declared a disaster area.
\__/  Capt. Benjamin "Hawkeye" Pierce



From sebastien.hugues at swissinfo.org  Fri Jul 11 04:40:13 2003
From: sebastien.hugues at swissinfo.org (sebastien.hugues)
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 10:40:13 +0200
Subject: Windows XP - Environment variable - Unicode
Message-ID: <3f0e77fc@epflnews.epfl.ch>

Hi

I would like to retrieve the application data directory path of the 
logged user on
windows XP. To achieve this goal i use the environment variable
APPDATA.

The logged user has this name: s?bastien. The second character is not an
ascii one and when i try to encode the path that contains this name in 
utf-8,
i got this error:

Ascii error: index not in range (128)

I would like to first decode this string and then re-encode it in utf-8, but
i am not able to find out what encoding is used when i make:

appdata = os.environ ['APPDATA']

Any ideas ?

Thanks in advance
Sebastien




From max at alcyone.com  Thu Jul 17 15:06:54 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 12:06:54 -0700
Subject: anything like C++ references?
References: <000301c348c7$3c501980$21795418@dell1700>  <sag3hv4vf884ed7ouu5cv8ofnopp9j1t12@4ax.com>  <f0f51c80.0307132003.264b6894@posting.google.com>  <7dc4hvslh7a8fk9p6cvsfqa1c8d44rmmnv@4ax.com>  <beuepu$bsm$1@panix3.panix.com>  <sdd6hvsmsq32o62oknpqft6dc61lbup8rn@4ax.com> <20030714173855120-0600@news.xmission.com> <9mh6hv45v18apgn6lp7bo6mm63e5oba9rd@4ax.com> <f0f51c80.0307150921.7b6667e2@posting.google.com> <i_2dnT9-LNUBRIuiXTWJiQ@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <3F16F3CE.2F928320@alcyone.com>

Terry Reedy wrote:

> Minor nit: 'register' is not a mandate, but an ignorable suggestion.
> So a compiler either could or must ignore 'register' in able to make
> '&x' possible.

If the register keyword is present, then taking the address of the
variable is illegal, _whether or not_ the compiler ultimately decides to
turn the varible into a register.

> Of course, the idea of ignorable keyword suggestion is itself somewhat
> strange ;-)

It's in precisely the same class as inline.  They're optimization hints
to the compiler.  The implementation is under no obligation to honor
any, some, most, or all of such hints.

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ You are my martyr / I'm a vestige of a revolution
\__/  Lamya



From ianb at colorstudy.com  Fri Jul 25 13:45:33 2003
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: 25 Jul 2003 12:45:33 -0500
Subject: path module
In-Reply-To: <20030725184158.O6906@prim.han.de>
References: <1057651068.5348.386.camel@lothlorien>
	 <20030708113219.H6906@prim.han.de>
	 <mailman.1057686613.6463.python-list@python.org>
	 <11234c14.0307211016.344d40bc@posting.google.com>
	 <mailman.1059144006.6426.python-list@python.org>
	 <just-8DDA38.17221725072003@news1.news.xs4all.nl>
	 <20030725184158.O6906@prim.han.de>
Message-ID: <1059155133.24478.10738.camel@lothlorien>

On Fri, 2003-07-25 at 11:41, holger krekel wrote:
> Yes, i think adding platform specific methods to a Path object makes sense.  
> A friend and me started working on (local and subversion) Path 
> implementations last week.  Currently a Path instance provides 
> these "path-taking" methods 
> 
>     open  
>     read
>     write
>     visit  (a recursive walker)
>     listdir
>     stat
>     load/save (unpickle/pickle object)
>     setmtime  (set modification time, uses os.utime)

I like read and write too -- I do:

f = open(filename)
contents = f.read()
f.close()

All the time (when I'm uninterested in streaming or performance, which
is most of the time I deal with files).  Or just open(filename).read()
and let garbage collection fix it up, even if it seems a little messy. 
A single method to encapsulate that would be nice, and of course write
gives symmetry.  Hmmm... Jason's distinguishes bytes (binary) and text
(which is potentially encoded).  I kind of like that distinction.

Jason had walkers both for all files, just non-directory files, and
directory files.  This seems useful to me, and by making it explicit I
might just start distinguishing text from binary (which I don't now
because I am forgetful).  And a globbing walker, though I don't know how
much of an advantage that would be over list comprehension.  Actually,
all his walkers have a globbing option.

> apart from all the os.path.* stuff like 'exists', 'dirname' etc.  
> Providing these "path-taking" methods on the Path object is very important 
> because otherwise you'll have to convert back and fro for using those
> os.* and os.path.* or builtin methods (which is evil).  

dirname is a good name, since it should return a path object, not a
"name" (which to me implies a string).  I think Jason's module uses a
parent attribute, though it also supports dirname(), and a name
attribute instead of basename() (though that does not return a path
object).  And things like dirname make less sense in some non-path
situations, like a URL.  Probably not too much renaming should occur,
but at least a little may be appropriate.

  Ian






From intentionally at blank.co.uk  Mon Jul 14 21:15:25 2003
From: intentionally at blank.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 02:15:25 +0100
Subject: anything like C++ references?
References: <b8c3hvsesjoumiboobml3nsnajtha99mp1@4ax.com> <mailman.1058129901.28248.python-list@python.org> <plk3hv0s1m2egf4s34jo6vjedk0q8r2mu9@4ax.com> <m365m6ul5c.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <mailman.1058145500.19181.python-list@python.org> <e464hvcq48q3240ecfcs6jqhqf616q7v1a@4ax.com> <m3k7alr86s.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <poi6hvc9n1fuh95gvr9kcc1kmb4o2cablt@4ax.com>

On 14 Jul 2003 07:25:31 +0200, martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. L?wis)
wrote:

>Stephen Horne <intentionally at blank.co.uk> writes:
>
>> >>>> a = ref(1)
>> >>>> b = a
>[...]
>> >>>> a = 5
>> >>>> b
>> >5
>[...]
>> Well, during the 'debate', that's the basic idea that involved -
>> except that I'd use explicit pointer-dereferencing syntax.
>
>This is a very bad idea. You want to create a reference to the object
>1? Then I assume that assigning to "a" would *change* the value of 1?
>But 1 is an immutable object, it cannot change!

That is NOT what I said.

I was saying that the basic idea is right, not the notation expressing
it. I want pointers to be explicit as a data type.

Besides, in my mind the notation...

>> >>>> a = ref(1)

...creates a reference to an object which is initially bound to the
value 1 and binds that object to the variable a.

Variable a bound to anonymous object.
Anonymous object bound to value 1.

Reassigning to that object would merely rebind that object to another
value. Immutability of values is preserved. Immutability of objects is
not the same thing.

Not my favoured notation, and of course I left Ians explanation of the
problem with that notation quoted.

>> Imagine, for instance, changing all assignments and other 'copying' to
>> use a copy-on-write system. 
>
>That assumes that there is the notion of copying values in the first
>place. Objects, in general, don't support copying - and assignment has
>nothing to do with copying.

That is why 'copying' was in quotes. I merely wanted to indicate that
parameter passing and such was included.

>> >>> a = &5
>> >>> b = newcopyof a        #  could be "b = &(*a)" in principle
>> >>> *b is *a
>> False
>
>Again, objects don't support copying. For immutable objects (like
>numbers), copying is also a pointless operation: If there where a
>standard .copy method on objects, numbers would return themselves.

You miss the point. Though it's partly my fault for a stupid mistake
("b = &(*a)" would not copy the object that *a refers to, it would
merely rederive the pointer which is rather pointless).

It isn't about copying the value. It is about copying the
representation of the value, or the object that is bound to that
value.

The fact that some objects can't be copied would simply become
explicit and obvious. People couldn't end up thinking they are dealing
with a separate copy just because they have two variables bound to
that object. They couldn't have two variables bound directly to one
object. They would either have to explicitly use pointers, or
explicitly copy the object - and the latter wouldn't be possible for
objects that don't support copying.

Straight off, a common cause of confusion and errors would be removed.

Write...

  x = classname()
  y = x

... and that would be an error. Although it wouldn't need a copy at
that point, it implies the need to copy as soon either variable is
used to make a change to the object.

However...

  x = &classname()
  y = x

... and everything is fine. Both variables have been *explicitly*
linked, via pointers, to the same object. There is no need to copy the
object.

Actually, there is an implementation issue there. 'x = classname()'
does do an assignment, after all. It's only safe because copying of
the object is avoidable. This claim can also be made of the second
case - that claim only breaks down when that object is mutated by an
access via one variable or another. A little fiddly, but not that
difficult to fix. If each object knows how many times it is directly
referenced (either by a variable, or by what I'll call a 'register' in
expression evaluation) it can detect problems. It would have to do
something similar, in fact, to do the copy-on-write when copying is
implemented.

This is something that C++ also gets wrong, IMO, because classes get
copying operations (assignment, copy constructor) by default unless
you do something to stop them. A shorthand for requesting a naive copy
when appropriate seems better to me.

>There is no way, in the language, to express that you want different
>copies of the value 5.

No - I was talking about a language change, and I was talking about
copying representations.

I want to be able to assume that the language implements binding of
variables to values. I want a datatype that allows me a way of
indirectly referencing objects - pointers, in other words.

If I write...

>>> a = 5
>>> b = newcopyof 5
>>> *b = 6

I don't expect the variable a to be affected. I have not changed the
value 5 into the value 6, I have merely changed the value that is
bound to an object. That object was created by copying another object,
but that doesn't mean all objects have to be copyable.

> This is completely different from the notion of
>values in C or C++, where each occurrence of the literal 5 creates a
>new value whose state is 5.

Not true. Each occurence of the literal 5 creates a new 'symbol' which
represents the value 5. The immutability of values is preserved in
C++.




From kj.kjn at wanadoo.fr  Wed Jul  2 07:13:06 2003
From: kj.kjn at wanadoo.fr (kj.kjn)
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 13:13:06 +0200
Subject: how to pass a file descriptor in a swig module
Message-ID: <bdueu3$ddj$1@news-reader3.wanadoo.fr>

My function func(File * des) is embedded in a module swig.

I would to know how to call this function from python script and if it's
necessay

to declare a typemaps ?

Thank you







From vze4rx4y at verizon.net  Thu Jul 24 23:56:56 2003
From: vze4rx4y at verizon.net (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 03:56:56 GMT
Subject: recognizing empty iterators
References: <mailman.1059094657.6212.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cU1Ua.95$Fl.66@nwrdny01.gnilink.net>

[Michele Simionato]
> BTW, the fact that an empty iterator is True is somewhat strange,
> considering that [],() and "" are False; on the other hand, generic
> objects are True, so the point can be debated ...

Requiring iterators to know whether they are empty *before* being
called would be like from requiring them to know their length in
advance (after all, the falsity of [] and () stems from their __len__()
methods returning zero).  Non-sequential access and the absence
of a __len__() method are what give iterators their character.  IOW,
iterators are *supposed* to not be the same as sequences.

Viva la difference.


[Timothy Delaney]
> It is impossible to know, in the general case, if an iterator is empty.
> The primary reason for this is that many iterators are destructive
> e.g. file iterators. A wrapper iterator can be used around a
> destructive iterator that caches information, but that's about the
> best you can do unless the iterator is resettable.

> An iterator may in fact be conceptually empty at one instant, then
> the next instant not be empty...

> All it is possible to know is if an iterator has been exhausted
> *for now* - and that is if it raises StopIteration. Technically this
> does not mean that the iterator is permanently exhausted - it could
> start returning values at a later date, but this would be very
> confusing to people ;)

Yes, it was.  So, Guido decreed that once a iterator has returned
StopIteration, it will continue to do so on subsequent calls to
it.next().  Promptly, all of Python's iterators were modified to
comply.  IOW, iterators can and do stay "permanently exhausted".

However, Tim is essentially correct in focusing on the "just-in-time"
nature of iterators.  Part of the core concept for iterators is to *not*
know what lies ahead.



Raymond Hettinger






From alanmk at hotmail.com  Mon Jul 21 18:51:58 2003
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 23:51:58 +0100
Subject: A challenge to the ASCII proponents.
References: <mailman.1058278343.23104.python-list@python.org> <bf167a$pvt$1@panix2.panix.com> <ufzl7rdno.fsf@online.no> <3F142A58.80426AA4@hotmail.com> <2259b0e2.0307161620.4a9353f1@posting.google.com> <Xns93BB246FDDBCFJanC@213.118.75.80> <3F168011.3AEB3EFC@hotmail.com> <3F172442.2040907@v.loewis.de> <oprsg8jf1xttxc4i@news.t-online.de> <3F195CC4.D426E416@hotmail.com> <slrnbhjm31.tp.bignose-hates-spam@rose.localdomain.fake> <3F1AA450.765D07FD@hotmail.com> <slrnbhmt6t.si4.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local> <3F1BB7A3.D4223855@hotmail.com> <slrnbholha.h5p.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>
Message-ID: <3F1C6E8E.269B08EB@hotmail.com>

Alan Kennedy:

>> Solely because of technical inertia, and unwillingness to address
>> the (perhaps excessive) complexity of our various communications
>> layers, i.e. our own "Tower of 7-bit Babel", we're suppressing
>> cultural diversity, for no technically valid reason.

Ben Finney wrote:

> Yes.  The solutions must involve a significant sociological element,
> since that is a large part of the current situation.

The only point I would like to add is that I think all of our
sociological situations are going change rather rapidly over the next
few years. The business landscape has changed pretty radically over
the last few years, I think it's going to change even more once global
initiatives such EB-XML, etc, kick in.

>> I personally don't have the slightest problem with reformulating
>> NNTP and POP to use XML instead: In a way, I think it's almost
>> inevitable, given how poor our existing "ascii" technologies are
>> at dealing with i18n and l10n issues. Emails and usenet posts are
>> all just documents after all.
>
> I've no idea, though, why you keep banging on about XML for simple,
> plain-text documents.  Substitute XML with UTF-8 in the above, and I
> agree entirely.  This is a problem of character encodings, yet you
keep
> wanting to apply a heavy, structural markup solution.  That way lies
> HTML/XML email, and it's totally unnecessary and unhelpful.

You quite probably put all of your email through a virus scanner? If
it's full nasty xml, why not put it through an XML transform instead,
that removes the images/webbugs for example, or "downcasts" it to
ASCII? It's just a stage in the processing chain. Write your own
transform
if you wish, it will interoperate seamlessly with your gateway
processing
software, regardless of implementation language. It's only XML.

BTW, Bengt, <subject>I</subject><verb
person="firstsingular">hate</verb>
<object type="anonymous">this</object><conjunctive>too</conjunctive>.

Ugh!

> Email and NNTP are lightweight, freeform, unstructured document
> formats, and they're good that way. 

POP and NNTP were great for what they were designed for: sending ascii
messages in the age of uucp, uuencode, 2.4K modems, acoustic couplers
and phone-phreakers. These days, there's so much protocol wrapping and
unwrapping going on that mistakes happen all the time. Witness the
wrong URIs episode today in "Python-URL".

These days, you and I could probably have a reasonable
telephone^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H voice conversation over the net. You're in
Australia (g'day) and I'm in Ireland. Should be only 0.3 to 0.5 second
delay. I have a 256Kbit/1024Kbit connection. You? We have much more
reliable connections now, and perhaps we need to focus a little more
on what information we're sending, rather than how we're sending it.

> Nothing you've said so far has offered even
> a pretence of a reason for abandoning freeform text formats for
> heavy, markup-oriented formats.

In my simplistic view, I see an increasing requirement in the modern
day for people requiring to communicate meaningfully with each other:
to work together on complicated projects, across barriers of time
zones. Working together requires good communications. But really
achieving anything requires structuring ideas and information, and
structuring ideas means (to me) either using the same software or
forming a common framework within which to operate.

In the wonderfully diverse world of open source, interoperability
among diversity is a highly desired quality, i.e. everybody uses their
own preferred combination of software. I see XML as offering a simple
way to form those same common frameworks, which will allow
NON-technical people to work together on structuring and coordinating
their efforts, and to also enjoy the benefits of interoperability
among diversity. It will allow the less IT-literate PhDs in
microbiology, medical science, genomics, renewable energy,
anthropology, etc, etc, etc, to better coordinate their efforts. I
expect an explosion of data interchange among non-IT scientists, now
that all the serious office packages, i.e. Microsoft and Open*Office,
are using XML as their formats. All the world's data, suddenly
free(-ish) to move between software and and between people and their
preferences.

The kind of protocols we need in the modern day are protocols like
UDDI: Universal Description and Discovery of Web Services.

http://www.uddi.org/

And I expect that 99% of the time, people who use UDDI services will
never see an angle-bracket, publishing or subscribing. But if they
want to become publishers on minimal resources, they'll be able to
simply put their IT together, using wonderful language tools such as
python processing XML.

No barrier, technical or financial, to entry.

> Where character encoding is the problem, Unicode is the current best
> solution.  But that in no way necessitates a markup format.

Let's tear down all the old copper wires, and replace them with
microwave towers. They were an eyesore anyway ;-)

regards,

--
alan kennedy
-----------------------------------------------------
check http headers here: http://xhaus.com/headers
email alan:              http://xhaus.com/mailto/alan



From sybrenUSE at YOURthirdtower.imagination.com  Thu Jul 17 07:15:57 2003
From: sybrenUSE at YOURthirdtower.imagination.com (Sybren Stuvel)
Date: 17 Jul 2003 11:15:57 GMT
Subject: Linux - python vs sh
References: <mailman.1058429007.4582.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrnbhd1bd.b4s.sybrenUSE@sybren.thirdtower.com>

Krisztian Kepes enlightened us with:
> I want to list my rpm database to file with this:

Besides the answers you already got, you might like this too:

>   echo '>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>' >>$file
>   echo "$nr." >>$file
>   echo "Name: $rpmname" >>$file
>   echo "" >>$file
>   info=`rpm -qi $rpmname`
>   echo "$info" >>$file
>   echo "" >>$file

can be re-written as:

(
	echo '>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>'
	echo "$nr."
	echo "Name: $rpmname"
	echo
	rpm -qi $rpmname
	echo
) >> $file

Sybren
-- 
The problem with the world is stupidity. Not saying there should be a
capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the
safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself? 



From corey.coughlin at attbi.com  Mon Jul 28 17:57:51 2003
From: corey.coughlin at attbi.com (Corey Coughlin)
Date: 28 Jul 2003 14:57:51 -0700
Subject: How safe is modifying locals()?
References: <BDcUa.100193$XV.6037947@twister.austin.rr.com>	 <MvCdnTkcoJNP_7yiXTWJjw@comcast.com>	 <WMdUa.100343$XV.6044659@twister.austin.rr.com> <mailman.1059173799.17228.python-list@python.org> <ZqlUa.102243$XV.6096809@twister.austin.rr.com> <bfttd5$gtc$1@online.de> <Y_wUa.103853$XV.6162947@twister.austin.rr.com> <bfutsf$flc$0@216.39.172.122> <3TIUa.107401$XV.6252339@twister.austin.rr.com>
Message-ID: <a8623416.0307281357.3d0aa363@posting.google.com>

Interesting thread here, I'm enjoying reading this.  Of course, I know
next to nothing about Visual Basic, so I don't know if I can really
help all that much.  But it doesn't sound like implementing something
like pointers is that much trouble, just a matter of getting some
syntax you like.  Now if you were translating C into Python, I suspect
you might need a more complicated pointer model.  I mean, half the use
of pointers in C is to iterate down simple arrays, like strings, so
you'd have to make something more like this:

class CStack(object):
    def __init__():
	self.stack = []
	self.names = {}
    def malloc(sizeinbytes, object_name):
	self.names[object_name] = len(self.stack)
	for i in range(sizeinbytes):
	    self.stack.append(0)
    def pobj(pointer_index):
	return self.stack[pointer_index]
    def paddr(object_name):
	return self.names[object_name]

or something like that, obviously this isn't fleshed out, but given
the breathtakingly simple memory model of C, it should be a snap to
code up in Python.  Hmmm.... I wonder if the Python-In-Python people
are trying anything like this to convert the C library code for
CPython.  Or would it even be worth it?  I think I'll meditate on
that......



From gradha at titanium.sabren.com  Sun Jul 27 15:52:58 2003
From: gradha at titanium.sabren.com (Grzegorz Adam Hankiewicz)
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 21:52:58 +0200
Subject: ANN: mailbox_date_trimmer 1.0.1 -- Correct emails' date headers in a mailbox archive.
In-Reply-To: <20030726101506.GA1467@pedos.es>
References: <20030726101506.GA1467@pedos.es>
Message-ID: <20030727195258.GB20707@pedos.es>

>    Improved documentation. Removed stdin pipe detection hack. Many
>    small date parsing errors found and fixed after running the
>    program over 500 MB of mailing list archives.

Just yesterday I ran the program over the python mail archives
(http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list). 215144 messages
in about 600MB, the program run for about 5 minutes, with the
python process never going over 2.5MB of RAM. Only 117 messages
were corrected, making the archive start the 2nd of april of 1999
and end, well, yesterday.

It would be nice if the maintainer could fix the archive and
regenerate the html pages, correcting spurious messages from the
years 2014, 2009 or 1955.

-- 
 Please don't send me private copies of your public answers. Thanks.




From lists at gregfortune.com  Mon Jul 14 15:01:54 2003
From: lists at gregfortune.com (Greg Fortune)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 12:01:54 -0700
Subject: Reloading nested modules
References: <mailman.1058132120.31051.python-list@python.org> <m31xwuul39.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <yZCQa.2612$Jk5.1881803@feed2.centurytel.net>

I've wondered about the same problem and considered that as a solution, but
never tested it.  I assume that *wouldn't* rebind all of the imports that
have already happened..  ie, I think the references to the old copies of
the modules would hang around even though new ones have been imported.

Regardless, the scoping doesn't work so an attempt to reload the embedded
module assumes it is available in local scope and fails.  Again, that would
lead me to believe my first statement is true, but when I tested just now,
I got no further than the scoping problem...

I've been intended to write something that will take a module name and
rebind it in all namespaces that have it currently, but haven't got around
to it.  If I ever do, I'll post it here :)

Greg

Martin v. L?wis wrote:

> Andy Jewell <andy at wild-flower.co.uk> writes:
> 
>> Does anyone know of a way to dynamically reload all the imported
>> modules of a client module?
> 
> You could iterate over sys.modules and invoke reload for all of them.
> 
> Regards,
> Martin




From trentm at ActiveState.com  Thu Jul 24 12:40:28 2003
From: trentm at ActiveState.com (Trent Mick)
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 09:40:28 -0700
Subject: Python and VS.Net
In-Reply-To: <bfo14i$ibh$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net>; from mgerrans@mindspring.com on Thu, Jul 24, 2003 at 12:16:25AM -0700
References: <mailman.1058934395.4215.python-list@python.org> <bflf99$aqd$1@slb9.atl.mindspring.net> <mailman.1058989177.1549.python-list@python.org> <bfo14i$ibh$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <20030724094028.L13644@ActiveState.com>

[Matt Gerrans wrote]
> "Trent Mick" wrote:
> > > If your Python code could thereby access the .NET libraries, that
> > > would be another story.   That would be like Jython for .NET.   I
> > > was hoping that was what Active State's Python-in-VS.NET-thingy
> > > was, but alas it was too good to be true: it is only (so far) a
> > > color-syntaxing Python editor that takes two or three minutes to
> > > load up.
> >
> > You are mixing up two difference ideas. ActiveState's VisualPython is a
> > plugin for VS.NET to provide all the IDE stuff (like editting,
> > debugging, interactive shell, help, intellisense, etc) for Python
> > programmers.
> 
> Uh, isn't that pretty much what I said?   I don't think I mixed up the
> ideas.   I only said that what ActiveState's Visual Python was and what I
> was originally hoping it would be were not the same.

Okay, fair enough. It was my mistake in reading your post, then.

Apologies,
Trent

-- 
Trent Mick
TrentM at ActiveState.com




From gh at ghaering.de  Tue Jul 15 12:32:26 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 18:32:26 +0200
Subject: delete file
In-Reply-To: <2c6431ab.0307150743.7dd52f3f@posting.google.com>
References: <2c6431ab.0307100711.780a65ad@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.1057851734.20147.python-list@python.org>
	<QugPa.26879$FN3.2233696@news.ono.com>
	<3F0D962E.23DA9F59@engcorp.com>
	<2c6431ab.0307110529.7a336f30@posting.google.com>
	<3F0EBFED.BB283660@engcorp.com>
	<2c6431ab.0307150743.7dd52f3f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3F142C9A.8020800@ghaering.de>

lamar_air wrote:
> I am using this remove method and it works well as long as the file is
> there
> os.remove("C:\Inetpub\wwwroot\Cgi-bin\output.txt")
> If the file doesn't exist then i get an error that the file is not
> found.  I want to stay away from using
> f2=open('C:\Inetpub\wwwroot\Cgi-bin\output.txt', 'w') so how can i
> check if the file exists first?

if not os.path.exists("foo"):
     os.remove("foo")

or just catch the error, with something like:

try:
     os.remove("foo")
except OSError, detail:
     if detail.errno != 2:
         raise

This will ensure that only the "file not found case" is ignored, not for 
example the "insufficient permission" case. Not that I know where this 
error numbers comes from, I just experimented ;-) If anybody could tell 
me where I can find those error numbers without RTFMing myself I'd be 
grateful.

-- Gerhard




From fredrik at pythonware.com  Mon Jul 14 17:09:31 2003
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 23:09:31 +0200
Subject: PyQT, Sharp Zaurus and color in the QTextBrowser
References: <slrnbh60lj.3jm.sybrenUSE@sybren.thirdtower.com> <1058214866.5032.1.camel@redwall.ofsloans.com>
Message-ID: <bev64p$gfj$1@main.gmane.org>

Tim Gerla wrote:
> Anyway, to actually be on topic, "proper" HTML (XHTML 1.0, and
> maybe HTML 4.0? I don't recall...) requires double-quotes to be
> used. Single quotes are illegal.

XHTML 1.0 is XML, which allows both single quotes and double
quotes:

    http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-xml#NT-AttValue

HTML 4 is derived from SGML, which also supports both single
and double quotes, and also allows unquoted values, in some
cases:

    http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/intro/sgmltut.html#h-3.2.2

</F>







From mhammond at skippinet.com.au  Mon Jul 28 01:19:21 2003
From: mhammond at skippinet.com.au (Mark Hammond)
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 15:19:21 +1000
Subject: Pythoncom shutdown problems
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1059266799.22153.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1059266799.22153.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bg2bol$18ir$1@arachne.labyrinth.net.au>

Hannes Grund wrote:
> Dear all,
> probably offtopic for the general python list, but I don't know were to go
> else.
> 
> I'm currently developing somekind of middleware
> wich makes heavy use of pythonwin/com extensions.
> (The complete setup is: win2000/winXP, python2.2,
> win32all-152, wxPython resp. wxWindows).
> 
> The software is aimed to manage data held by a software
> suite (called chemoffice) to manage chemical substances.
> It exposes it main components via COM, the intagration
> to python via win32com.client.Dispatch works well.
> The problem:
> 
> When calling a special method on some of these COM objects
> one component launches a process which appears to be a subprocess
> of svchost.exe.
> The result is that I'm unable to terminate the python process
> after this process has been started, furthermore if
> I shutdown the python process manually, it keeps alive, causing
> problems during windows shutdown (i.e. you have to remove
> it manually as well).
> 
> Any help or hint would be highly appreciated,

I'm not sure what you mean by "can not terminate" the process means in 
this context, especially given you can shut it down manually.  I assume 
Python is not implemented any COM objects, only using them?

But it does sound like a COM object reference problem.  Using 
pythoncom._GetInterfaceCount/GetGatewayCount may help you in tracking 
this down.

Mark.




From jjl at pobox.com  Sun Jul 27 20:31:14 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 28 Jul 2003 01:31:14 +0100
Subject: code coverage tool with emacs integration?
References: <87u198ree4.fsf@pobox.com> <mailman.1059317680.30470.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87ptjva3vx.fsf@pobox.com>

Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com> writes:
[...]
> compilation-error-regexp-alist.  The simplest format to remember is

Thanks.

[...]
> emit file:line:msg info for the start of each run of lines which weren't
> covered?

Yes.


> How would you get any context showing you what lines in the region
> had been executed at least once?

Why would I want to?

I haven't done any proper code-coverage analysis before, but I
had imagined just doing:

while 1:
  uncovered = run_coverage_tool(my_code)
  if not uncovered: break
  jump_to(uncovered[0])
  think()
  write_test()


John



From spam at nothing.nowhere  Wed Jul  2 05:39:40 2003
From: spam at nothing.nowhere (Culley Angus)
Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 21:39:40 +1200
Subject: Assign to True / False in 2.3
Message-ID: <bdu98t$1eh$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>

Just downloaded the latest beta of 2.3, and having a bit of fun playing 
with the new goodies, lovely work by the way :)

I was a little suprised to find that I could assign a value to 'True', 
and 'False' without warning though, and was wondering if this is deliberate.

For example:
if (1 == True): print "true"
True = 0
if (1 == True): print "true"
else: print "true is false"

This snippet is fairly unlikely to ever be written by a sober 
individual, but if something similar is constructed by accident, the 
repercussions may be interesting if not detected.

Can True (or False for that matter) be relied on for this sort of direct 
comparison?.




From donn at u.washington.edu  Tue Jul 15 14:13:02 2003
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 11:13:02 -0700
Subject: Waiting for processes to finish under Solaris
References: <3F144AB2.10703@dadsetan.com>
Message-ID: <donn-080615.11130115072003@nntp1.u.washington.edu>

In article <3F144AB2.10703 at dadsetan.com>,
 Behrang Dadsetan <ben at dadsetan.com> wrote:

> Hi all,
> 
> please note that once I finished writing the script someone explained me 
> that there is a command pwait under Solaris... anyway it was fun to 
> write and it did not take long (while I am not a python guru..). And my 
> version is MUUUCH better :)
> 
> 
> Is there no standard interfaces to the process table? I only found 
> examples of how to do it on the win32 platform. So I parse with re the 
> output of /usr/ucb/ps...
> 
> Because I am still at the begining of learning python, I wanted to have 
> some advice here how I could have done the following code better...

Since you apparently already know the PIDs you're looking for,
it would be easier and more reliable to just kill them with 0 -

    while 1:
        time.sleep(2)
        for p in watchedforpids.keys():
            try:
                os.kill(p, 0)
            except os.error, e:
                if e.errno == errno.ESRCH:
                    del watchedforpids[p]
                else:
                    raise
            else:
                 print p, 'still alive'

Though of course that doesn't retrieve any of the other information
you get from "ps".

   Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu



From sross at connectmail.carleton.ca  Thu Jul  3 10:47:04 2003
From: sross at connectmail.carleton.ca (Sean Ross)
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 10:47:04 -0400
Subject: zip() or what?
References: <3F03AFA8.7030905@ihug.co.nz> <3F03B4DB.545DC6B5@alcyone.com> <3F0401C4.1010306@ihug.co.nz>
Message-ID: <ukXMa.5752$eF3.709383@news20.bellglobal.com>

"Ray Tomes" <rtomes at ihug.co.nz> wrote in message
news:3F0401C4.1010306 at ihug.co.nz...
>... I don't get the meaning of the * [snip]. Is this like the opposite of
putting [] around something or what?

That's pretty much it. I think of it as an unpacking operator (which it
isn't, but anyway...). You can use it to unpack a list or tuple of arguments
that you want to feed into a function [1]. Conversely, you can use it when
defining a function to say "this function also takes an arbitrary number of
additional arguments"[2].

You've seen an example of [1] for your own problem, here's another quick
one:

def foo(a, b, c):
    print "%s %s %s" % (a, b, c)
argfeed = ['a', 'b', 'c']
foo(*argfeed)    # equivalent to foo('a', 'b', 'c')

And an example of [2] would be:

def foo(*args):
    for arg in args:
        print arg
foo('a', 'b', 'c', 'hello world')

The second useage is in the tutorial [ section 4.7.3 ], I'm not sure where
the first useage is.
HTH
Sean





From bokr at oz.net  Sat Jul 12 19:11:20 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 12 Jul 2003 23:11:20 GMT
Subject: Python - if/else statements
References: <pan.2003.07.11.19.34.16.330762@yahoo.com> <ben6uf$tcr$0@216.39.172.122> <pan.2003.07.11.23.16.08.781512@yahoo.com> <benpvl$9kj$0@216.39.172.122> <pan.2003.07.12.02.27.29.730366@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <beq4io$19r$0@216.39.172.122>

On Sat, 12 Jul 2003 14:27:33 +1200, dmbkiwi <dmbkiwi at yahoo.com> wrote:

>On Sat, 12 Jul 2003 01:58:13 +0000, Bengt Richter wrote:
>
[...]
>> If that is really happening, I wonder if you are somehow executing code from a different version
>> or have some kind of mixed-up installation. Or are using incompatible extension modules?
>> Do you have multiple versions installed? what are your versions, and what sym links are there?
>> And what are the #! lines of your script(s)?
>
>One point that I may not have made clear is that I'm not experiencing this
>behaviour personally with my set up.  It is other people using this script
Is it a single .py file?

>who are reporting this behaviour.  The difficulty I'm having is that it's
>very hard to debug a problem you're not having.  I've sent versions of the
>script to these people, with print statements at appropriate points to
>ensure that the script is doing what I think it's doing (in terms of going
>wrong for them), and from the output they send back, the interpreter is
>definitely ignoring the else statement and ploughing through them, even
>though, it's also executed the corresponding if statement.
>
I wonder if your script is executed directly by Python. Perhaps it is "sanitized"
for security reasons before being executed in some context, and it gets glitched,
in the sanitizing process. If so, could you ask them to put a debug print to
show what's actually being executed? And ask them how it's being executed
(ie, exec vs exec in somedir vs execfile vs import and invoke vs whatever they do).
[...]
>Suffering alone exists, none who suffer;
>The deed there is, but no doer thereof;
>Nirvana is, but no one is seeking it;
>The Path there is, but none who travel it.
>		-- "Buddhist Symbolism", Symbols and Values
>
Cool ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From gumuz at looze.net  Fri Jul 25 05:34:59 2003
From: gumuz at looze.net (Guyon Morée)
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 11:34:59 +0200
Subject: I am so impressed
References: <3f207dcc$0$137$1b62eedf@news.wanadoo.nl> <bfqp5o$rdi$1@nemesis.news.tpi.pl>
Message-ID: <3f20f8f1$0$13803$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net>

I hesitated when I read that it was a java app, because I have some bad
experiences with java apps. I haven't found anything yet that bothers me in
regards to speed or stability.

I could have something to with the fact that I recently upgraded my pc [P4
2,4ghz,512mb] :)

The amount of Eclipse plugins are amazing, I also found a graphical RegEx
tester, very usefull.


"Pablo" <pablo at no.spam.pl> wrote in message
news:bfqp5o$rdi$1 at nemesis.news.tpi.pl...
> > I've been looking for a nice python editor for a while. I was using a
> great
> > general purpose editor called EditPlus. It did the job pretty good....
> >
> > I've now downloaded Eclipse with the TruStudio plug-ins from
www.xored.com
> > and it's great!
> >
> > i had to share that with you
>
> I haven't used TruStudio plugin for Eclipse but Eclipse itself is too slow
> to use it for me.
> Have you tried Eric3? It looks great, has a debugger. I you haven't tried
it
> do it. I'm impressed.
>
> Cheers
> Pablo
>
>
>





From bokr at oz.net  Thu Jul 31 20:08:46 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 1 Aug 2003 00:08:46 GMT
Subject: Python speed vs csharp
References: <rkdc7poiachh.1x4jtxjzaf3zo.dlg@40tude.net>
Message-ID: <bgcb2e$nai$0@216.39.172.122>

On Wed, 30 Jul 2003 23:09:22 -0700, Mike <mike at nospam.com> wrote:

>Bear with me: this post is moderately long, but I hope it is relatively
>succinct. 
>
>I've been using Python for several years as a behavioral modeling tool for
>the circuits I design. So far, it's been a good trade-off: compiled C++
>would run faster, but the development time of Python is so much faster, and
>the resulting code is so much more reliable after the first pass, that I've
>never been tempted to return to C++. Every time I think stupid thoughts
>like, "I'll bet I could do this in C++," I get out my copy of Scott Meyers'
>"Effecive C++," and I'm quickly reminded why it's better to stick with
>Python (Meyers is a very good author, but points out lots of quirks and
>pitfalls with C++ that I keep thinking that I shouldn't have to worry
>about, much less try to remember). Even though Python is wonderful in that
>regard, there are problems.
>
>Here's the chunk of code that I'm spending most of my time executing:
>
<snip>

Some thoughts...

Is there any order to the values of x you call with? Or are they totally
unrelated? (I.e., can the last value give you a good approximation for the
next, knowing the step in the argument?  What are the limits to possible x values?
Have you tested how many terms in the approximation you really need to get usable results
(vs final tests)? |error| <= 1.5e-7 for all x sounds unnecessarily tight
for many engineering problems. What are the statistics of the errors on the
x values you are passing? Could you conceivably pre-compute a lookup table to
use instead of a function? E.g., this can be useful in turning a uniform distribution
into something else. Sometimes you can get away with a surprisingly small table for that.
(Plus you get to pre-eliminate weird outliers ;-)

Do you have many places in your code calling this function? 1.5 billion sounds
like mostly in a few places in some loops. If so, have you tried just putting
the approximation code in-line without a function call? That should save a
fair amount of time. Function calls are pretty expensive time-wise in python.
You can verify the relative cost by just returning a constant immediately from
the function.

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Jul 15 09:03:41 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 09:03:41 -0400
Subject: Securing PyDoc and CGIHTTPserver
References: <2621b014.0307100535.449ad06f@posting.google.com> <3F0D7887.9D069ED0@engcorp.com> <xqx3chexplh.fsf@cola2.ca.boeing.com> <3F0E136A.6222F201@engcorp.com> <2621b014.0307140819.6ec99736@posting.google.com> <3F13034D.19A4C65@engcorp.com> <2621b014.0307142130.6e49ea6d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3F13FBAD.CD0628F3@engcorp.com>

Jon Schull wrote:
> 
> Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message news:<3F13034D.19A4C65 at engcorp.com>...
> >
> > If this is merely a "local webserver interface", then it should bind
> > to localhost only.
> 
> Well, maybe this is how the question should be phrased.  How best to
> securely and reliably "bind to localhost only" (spoof-proofly, etc.)?

Localhost means "localhost" as defined in your /etc/hosts or equivalent
file under Windows, or the address 127.0.0.1.  Basically, don't do a bind
to '' which binds to all interfaces, but 'localhost' or '127.0.0.1' and
you won't get external interfaces involved.

-Peter



From h.b.furuseth at usit.uio.no  Fri Jul 25 15:51:02 2003
From: h.b.furuseth at usit.uio.no (Hallvard B Furuseth (nospam nospam))
Date: 25 Jul 2003 21:51:02 +0200
Subject: file.close()
References: <edITa.131868$Ph3.17333@sccrnsc04> <mailman.1059052897.16526.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <HBF.20030725xvv1@bombur.uio.no>

Francois Pinard wrote:
> For one, I systematically avoid cluttering my code with unneeded `close'.

What happens if close fails during GC?  Will it still raise an
exception?  If so, the exception could happen at an unfortunate place in
the code.

Um.  Explicit close does raise an exception if it fails, right?

-- 
Hallvard



From sjmachin at lexicon.net  Fri Jul 18 20:02:28 2003
From: sjmachin at lexicon.net (John Machin)
Date: 18 Jul 2003 17:02:28 -0700
Subject: feature request: a better str.endswith
References: <2259b0e2.0307180401.5dae02f2@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c76ff6fc.0307181602.23407bc8@posting.google.com>

mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato) wrote in message news:<2259b0e2.0307180401.5dae02f2 at posting.google.com>...
> I often feel the need to extend  the string method ".endswith" to tuple
> arguments, in such a way to automatically check for multiple endings.
> For instance, here is a typical use case:
> 
> if filename.endswith(('.jpg','.jpeg','.gif','.png')):
>     print "This is a valid image file"
> 
> Currently this is not valid Python and I must use the ugly
> 
> if filename.endswith('.jpg') or filename.endswith('.jpeg') \
>    or filename.endswith('.gif') or filename.endswith('.png'):
>     print "This is a valid image file"
> 

alternative 1:

>>> import re
>>> has_image_file_extn =
re.compile(r".*[.](jpg|jpeg|png|gif)$").match
>>> has_image_file_extn('foo.jpg')
<_sre.SRE_Match object at 0x00769F30>
>>> has_image_file_extn('foo.txt')
>>>

The above has factored out the common "." but is otherwise general for
any list of suffixes.

alternative 2:

>>> has_image_file_extn = lambda f: f.split('.')[-1] in
['jpg','jpeg','png','gif']
>>> has_image_file_extn('foo.jpg')
1
>>> has_image_file_extn('foo.txt')
0
>>>

This is of course restricted to cases where you can isolate the suffix
lexically. If the list is long and/or used frequently, then it might
be better to use a built-at-module-start-up dictionary instead.



From mis6 at pitt.edu  Tue Jul 22 11:44:52 2003
From: mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato)
Date: 22 Jul 2003 08:44:52 -0700
Subject: recognizing empty iterators
References: <2259b0e2.0307210626.11a1bbf1@posting.google.com> <mailman.1058835583.22488.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <2259b0e2.0307220744.156c95bf@posting.google.com>

Steven Taschuk <staschuk at telusplanet.net> wrote in message news:<mailman.1058835583.22488.python-list at python.org>...
> Quoth Michele Simionato:
> > [...] In other words I am looking for an
> > "isempty" function to use in "if" statements such as
> > 
> > if isempty(iterator):
> >    do_something()
> > 
> > without side effects. [...]
> 
> I don't have anything substantial to add to others' posts, but I
> wonder: under what circumstances do you want to do this?

I wanted to check the output of ifilter or imap; at the end I solved
my problem in another way, nevertheless I am surprised there is no
way to check for an empty iterator in current Python, it seems to be
a quite legitimate question, isn't it?

                                      Michele



From kfettig at state.nd.us  Thu Jul 10 11:33:33 2003
From: kfettig at state.nd.us (Ken Fettig)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 10:33:33 -0500
Subject: Executing scripts
Message-ID: <jHfPa.21$ww6.48420@news.uswest.net>

I am having a problem executing scripts from python. The script is located
at C:\Python22\learn and is named more.py. This is an example from the
Programming Python book by Mark Lutz published by O'Reilly. I have tried how
the author outlines to execute the script but it doesn't work. I am on a
Windows 2000 machine.
The example shows to, at the command line, enter C:\Python22\learn>python
more.py more.py. I get the following output:
>>> C:\Python22\learn>python more.py more.py
  File "<stdin>", line 1
    C:\Python22\learn>python more.py more.py
     ^
I have tried many combinations all unsuccessfully.  Can someone please help
me????

Thank you
Ken
kenfettig at btinet.net






From erez at actona.com  Tue Jul  1 02:01:43 2003
From: erez at actona.com (erez)
Date: 30 Jun 2003 23:01:43 -0700
Subject: error message in Python...
Message-ID: <af24fc01.0306302201.33697bb0@posting.google.com>

Hi,
When i try to run python script that uses com object from dll (was
registered already) i got the next error message
the script already was run on some other computer (win2k, xp) but in
this specific device it refused.

The Message:
 dispatch, userName =
dynamic._GetGoodDispatchAndUserName(dispatch,userName,clsctx)
  File "C:\Python22\Lib\site-packages\win32com\client\dynamic.py",
line 81, in _GetGoodDispatchAndUserName
    return (_GetGoodDispatch(IDispatch, clsctx), userName)
  File "C:\Python22\Lib\site-packages\win32com\client\dynamic.py",
line 72, in _GetGoodDispatch
    IDispatch = pythoncom.CoCreateInstance(IDispatch, None, clsctx,
pythoncom.IID_IDispatch)
pywintypes.com_error: (-2147024770, 'The specified module could not be
found.', None, None)


Does any one know what it's mean ???



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Thu Jul  3 17:52:55 2003
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 17:52:55 -0400
Subject: Overriding list.__new__
References: <2259b0e2.0307031246.6054693d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <ULmcnd8rx5QlOJmiXTWJlg@comcast.com>

"Michele Simionato" <mis6 at pitt.edu> wrote in message
news:2259b0e2.0307031246.6054693d at posting.google.com...
> Let me show first how does it work for tuples:
>
> >>> class MyTuple(tuple):
> ...     def __new__(cls,strng): # implicit conversion string of ints
=> tuple
> ...         return
super(MyTuple,cls).__new__(cls,map(int,strng.split()))
> >>> MyTuple('1 2')
> (1, 2)
>
> No wonder here, everything is fine. However, if I do the same for
> lists I get the following:

Values of immutable objects must be set when created, because they
cannot be changed thereafter.  Mutable objects can be initialized in
the __init__() method.  I suspect this is true of lists, so that
overriding __new__ for lists has no effect.

TJR





From jjl at pobox.com  Tue Jul  8 19:58:32 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 09 Jul 2003 00:58:32 +0100
Subject: printing html document with internet explorer
References: <mailman.1057680196.30844.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <874r1w8tav.fsf@pobox.com>

"Luca Calderano" <calderano at sgaspa.it> writes:
> Does anyone know how-to automatically print an html doc using Internet
> Explorer ???
> 
> I've tried these ways:
[...]
> but using both of tese objects
> 
> the printer setup pop-up window appears on the screen
> 
> and I have to click on the "OK" button to print my doc.

And the docs say that shouldn't happen?

Have you tried this?

http://msdn.microsoft.com/workshop/browser/webbrowser/webbrowser.asp


I ran into what may be the same bug (if you *have* found a bug, that
is) when trying to save something in IE5: even if you tell it not to
ask the user, it does anyway.


John



From drs at ecp.cc  Fri Jul 18 14:34:24 2003
From: drs at ecp.cc (drs)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 18:34:24 GMT
Subject: activex unhandled data type error
References: <mailman.1058532029.23053.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Q4XRa.22942$BM.6707274@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com>

"Schilens, Jeremiah" <jschilens at seawest.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.1058532029.23053.python-list at python.org...
Hello,

> I'm using Python as an asp language and I've run
> into an error.  I'm trying to import MySQLdb and
> I get this error on the web page:

> Error Type:
> Python ActiveX Scripting Engine, ASP 0106 (0x80020009)
> An unhandled data type was encountered.
> /computers/test.asp, line 5

> Line 5 is just the import statement.  Does anyone
> know how to fix this or know of another way that
> works to query a mysql database?

w/o more I cannot help w/ the problem, but MySQL should be accessable via
ADO under IIS.  See www.e-coli.net/pyado.html for more.

-d





From timr at probo.com  Thu Jul 10 00:05:49 2003
From: timr at probo.com (Tim Roberts)
Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 21:05:49 -0700
Subject: format discs.
References: <pan.2003.07.09.08.22.10.853337.9435@hotmail.com> <pan.2003.07.09.12.19.17.544904@net.hr>
Message-ID: <veppgvg8qfctgtfmfpafuhnfbedqrmt2uq@4ax.com>

"Taka" <taka at net.hr> wrote:
>
>Let's presume you want to format a unix partition and that it is
>/dev/hda1.
>The do this:
>
>#!/bin/python
>
>import os
>partition = open ('/dev/hda1', 'w')
>
>for x in range(os.path.getsize('/dev/hda1'):
>	partition.write ('0')
>
>partition.close()

Without commenting on the advisability or efficiency of the algorithm, it
is worth pointing out that you probably wanted a binary zero:

       partition.write ('\0')

rather than an ASCII character.
-- 
- Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
  Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.



From db3l at fitlinxx.com  Mon Jul  7 18:19:39 2003
From: db3l at fitlinxx.com (David Bolen)
Date: 07 Jul 2003 18:19:39 -0400
Subject: Threading issue:  [Error 9]: bad file descriptor
References: <KaQNa.394960$Vi5.10189553@news1.calgary.shaw.ca> <mailman.1057519510.8812.python-list@python.org> <1G7Oa.376746$ro6.9153831@news2.calgary.shaw.ca>
Message-ID: <ufzlim138.fsf@fitlinxx.com>

"Kevin" <other at cazabon.com> writes:

> My oversight, thanks!
> 
> I'm testing on Windows 2000 Professional, but have had other users report
> the same problem on other Windows flavours (NT, 98).

I can only speak for NT, but I have seen timing issues in the past
where there is some additional latency imposed by the system between
when I release all references to a file and when it can be removed
from the filesystem by the same process.  This has affected me in C
code as well as Python.  Perhaps you're running into the same thing,
although for me it normally showed up as a permission denied error.

Sometimes the higher level Python I/O exceptions can be a bit vague
(by their nature, a lot of underlying Win32 error codes eventually get
translated into a far fewer number of C RTL error codes, which in turn
bubble up as Python exceptions).  One thing you could try, depending
on the operation in question, is to replace the Python operation (such
as os.remove) with a matching win32all module operation (such as
win32file.DeleteFile), which should raise a more specific exception.

In my past experiences, the most practical, albeit inelegant,
workaround was to retry a failed removal operation after several
seconds.  Definitely a kluge, but I was never able to isolate any more
well-defined approach.

This of course assumes that you don't really have a threading race
condition under which you still do hold active handles to the file
that you are trying to remove.  The fact that you're getting back an
invalid handle error certainly makes it seem that you make still be
looking at a race condition or inter-thread data corruption within
your application.

Depending on the structure of the application, if you can wrap (or if
you have already) all access to your file handles through a common
class you should be able to instrument it in order to at least get
some sort of trace as to how they are accessed, and perhaps catch one
of the failures.  But as you probably know, debugging this sort of
thing can be nasty, particularly if it's truly sporadic in nature.

-- David



From Ax10 at gmx.de  Sat Jul 19 04:48:25 2003
From: Ax10 at gmx.de (Mike Abel)
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 10:48:25 +0200
Subject: Tkinter crashing when scrolling a canvas
References: <Xns93BCC98A7B354t45fs6vve@130.133.1.4>
Message-ID: <p7dnu-1pg.ln1@1.mabelsoft.org>

Psymaster <nomail at hotmail.com> wrote:
> Why does this crash if the scrollbar is clicked on? (you can't 
> press the arrows anymore):

It works for me on Linux Python 2.2.1 Tkinter 2.2.1.

Mike



From ahaas at airmail.net  Tue Jul 29 14:38:27 2003
From: ahaas at airmail.net (Art Haas)
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 13:38:27 -0500
Subject: [ANNOUNCE] Ninth release of PythonCAD now available
Message-ID: <20030729183827.GB32563@artsapartment.org>

I'd like to announce the ninth development release of PythonCAD,
a CAD package for open-source software users. As the name implies,
PythonCAD is written entirely in Python. The goal of this project is
to create a fully scriptable drafting program that will match and eventually
exceed features found in commercial CAD software. PythonCAD is released
under the GNU Public License (GPL).

PythonCAD requires Python 2.2. The interface is GTK 2.0 based,
and uses the PyGTK module for interfacing to GTK. The design of
PythonCAD is built around the idea of separating the interface
from the back end as much as possible. By doing this, it is hoped
that both GNOME and KDE interfaces can be added to PythonCAD through
usage of the appropriate Python module. Addition of other interfaces
will depend on the availability of a Python module for that particular
interface and developer interest and action.

The ninth release concentrated on internal improvements to the code. The
storage and manipulation of optional values was heavily reworked. The
first batch of changes regarding storing various drawing entities was
finished, with the handling of colors having the largest number of changes.
Linetypes and drawing styles will be updated in a similar manner to colors
in future releases. This release also has numerous improvements in handling
default values for many of the objects used in PythonCAD.

A large number of bug fixes are included in this release. Various bugs
relating to line splitting, tangent point calculation, and line intersection
calculation have been fixed. In addition to bug fixes, numerous changes
in the code are for data validation and error checking, resulting in
several fixes where using improper data types was uncovered.  A few changes
have been made with regards to saving and loading of files as well.

The ninth release also allows for the setting of the inactive layer
entity color. This change is probably the only user interface change present
in the release. As was stated above, the vast majority of changes present
in this release are deep within the code and not UI related.

Unfortunately the redraw bug in the preference dialog is still present, and
when making the eighth release I had hoped to have it eliminated by the time
the ninth release went out. That goal was not met, but hope springs eternal
and maybe it will be removed in the next release.

The mailing list for the development and use of PythonCAD is available.
Visit the following page for information about subscribing and viewing
the mailing list archive:

http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythoncad

Visit the PythonCAD web site for more information about what PythonCAD
does and aims to be:

http://www.pythoncad.org/

Come and join me in developing PythonCAD into a world class drafting
program!

Art Haas
-- 
Man once surrendering his reason, has no remaining guard against absurdities
the most monstrous, and like a ship without rudder, is the sport of every wind.

-Thomas Jefferson to James Smith, 1822




From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sun Jul 13 21:32:37 2003
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 13 Jul 2003 21:32:37 -0400
Subject: anything like C++ references?
References: <13t0hvsb7idh0g6ac3upe5k0qd6flc17ah@4ax.com> <lq-cnWRG9rRuMIyiXTWJjQ@comcast.com> <b8c3hvsesjoumiboobml3nsnajtha99mp1@4ax.com> <mailman.1058126720.6756.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bet17l$gdp$1@panix3.panix.com>

In article <mailman.1058126720.6756.python-list at python.org>,
Ian Bicking  <ianb at colorstudy.com> wrote:
>
>(Admittedly, some confusion may occur because these very different
>operations use the same syntax:
>
>  x = 10
>  x[0] = 10
>  obj.x = 10
>
>The second and third are entirely different from the first.)

No, they aren't.  They are precisely the same; they just have different
assignment targets.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"Not everything in life has a clue in front of it...."  --JMS



From hokiegal99 at hotmail.com  Sat Jul 19 23:40:05 2003
From: hokiegal99 at hotmail.com (hokiegal99)
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 23:40:05 -0400
Subject: Thanks comp.lang.python!!!
Message-ID: <3F1A0F15.101@hotmail.com>

While migrating a lot of Mac OS9 machines to PCs, we encountered several 
problems with Mac file and directory names. Below is a list of the problems:

1. Macs allow characters in file and dir names that are not acceptable 
on PCs. Specifically this set of characters [*<>?\|/]

2. Mac files and dirs that contained a "/" in their names would ftp to 
the server OK, but the "/" would be translated to "%2f". So, a Mac file 
named 7/19/03 would ftp as 7%2f19%2f03... not a very desirable filename, 
especially when there are hundreds of them.

3. The last problem was spaces at the beginning and ending of file and 
dir names. We encountered hundreds of files and dirs like this on the 
Macs. They would ftp up to the Linux server OK but when the Windows PC 
attempted to d/l them, the ftp transaction would stop and complain about 
not finding files whenever it tried to transfer a file. Dirs with spaces 
at the beginning or ending would literally crash the ftp client.

These were problems that we did not expect. So, we wrote a script to 
clean up these names. Since all of the files were bring uploaded to a 
Linux ftp server, we decided to do the cleaning there. Python is a 
simple, easily readable programming language, so we chose to use it. 
Long story short, attached to this email is the script. If anyone can 
use it to address Mac to PC migrations, feel free to.

The only caveat is that the script uses os.walk. I don't think Python 
2.2.x comes with os.walk. To address this, we d/l 2.3b2 and have used it 
extensively with this script w/o any problems. And, someone here on 
comp.lang.python told me that os.walk could be incorporated into 2.2.x 
too, but I never tried to do that as 2.3b2 worked just fine.

Thanks to everyone who contributed to this script. Much of it is 
straight from advice that I received here. Also, if anyone sees how it 
can be improved, let me know. For now, I'm satisfied with it as it works 
"well enough" for what I need it to do, however, I'm trying to become a 
better programmer so I appreciated feedback from those who are much more 
experienced than I am.

Special Thanks to Andy Jewell, Bengt Richter and Ethan Mindlace Fremen 
as they wrote much of the code initially and gave a lot of great tips!!!
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From tebeka at cs.bgu.ac.il  Thu Jul  3 06:52:53 2003
From: tebeka at cs.bgu.ac.il (Miki Tebeka)
Date: 3 Jul 2003 03:52:53 -0700
Subject: Paul Baranowski (from Peekabooty) language of choice
Message-ID: <33803989.0307030252.58dab0b0@posting.google.com>

Hello All,

FYI:
http://peek-a-booty.org/Docs/WhichLanguageDoYouRecommend.htm
coming from:
http://www.peek-a-booty.org/pbhtml/index.php

Miki



From Hobbes2176 at yahoo.com  Tue Jul  8 18:28:37 2003
From: Hobbes2176 at yahoo.com (Mark)
Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 22:28:37 GMT
Subject: Memoizing Generators
Message-ID: <pAHOa.43164$JY1.31589@nwrddc01.gnilink.net>

Hello all,

Peter Norvig has a great recipe for memoizing Python functions available at 
http://www.norvig.com/python-iaq.html .  I made good use of this until I
tried to memoize a generator.  At this point, it breaks down because the
_generator_ object is stored as the value for the *args key.

So, I came up with this:

class MemoizeGenerator:
    def __init__(self, fn):
        self.cache={}
        self.fn=fn
    def __call__(self,*args):
        if self.cache.has_key(args):
            for _i in self.cache[args]:
                yield _i
        else:
            self.cache[args]=()
            for _i in self.fn(*args):
                self.cache[args]+=(_i,)
                yield _i

Basically, if the generator hasn't been called before with these args, it
will run the generator's iterator through and append a tuple in the
dictionary value field for these keys.  If the args have been used before,
then it iterates through the previously computed list.  It works like a
charm for me.

Now, the two remaining issues are 1) can we "unify" the generator
memoization with the "standard" memoization and 2) can we deal with lists
as well (i.e. my generator was returning tuples ... since I'm scared of
lists in recursive generator contexts *wink*).  One other memoization
issues:  what if the args (which will become keys) are mutables ... in
particular, lists.  I suppose we could just tuple() them up?

Regards,
Mark



From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Fri Jul 11 11:51:50 2003
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 10:51:50 -0500
Subject: Enter parameters into Fortran executable from python cgi script
In-Reply-To: <2c6431ab.0307110634.1bf59a6b@posting.google.com> (lamar_air@hotmail.com's
 message of "11 Jul 2003 07:34:51 -0700")
References: <2c6431ab.0307110634.1bf59a6b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <m21xwxjc2x.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

>>>>> "lamar" == lamar air <lamar_air at hotmail.com> writes:


    lamar> How do i do this correctly?  testrun3 can be accesed from
    lamar> any dir because it's directory is set in the environment
    lamar> variables.

If you want to interact with a program, you need to use popen2 or
popen3, which give you access to the stdin, stdout and stderr
(popen3).

See this thread for a similar discussion and working example:

http://www.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&safe=off&threadm=mailman.1054062582.11873.python-list%40python.org&rnum=1&prev=/groups%3Fas_q%3Dpopen2%26safe%3Doff%26ie%3DUTF-8%26oe%3DUTF-8%26as_uauthors%3Djdhunter%2540ace.bsd.uchicago.edu%26lr%3D%26num%3D20%26hl%3Den


Note, you could also expose the fortran functions to python directly
with f2py.  It is really very easy and automated

http://cens.ioc.ee/projects/f2py2e/


John Hunter




From max at alcyone.com  Sun Jul 27 23:24:21 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 20:24:21 -0700
Subject: file.close()
References: <edITa.131868$Ph3.17333@sccrnsc04> <mailman.1059052897.16526.python-list@python.org> <HBF.20030725xvv1@bombur.uio.no> <2inav-q64.ln1@beastie.ix.netcom.com> <3F2460C7.44B8B046@alcyone.com> <mailman.1059359262.25827.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3F249765.4DD595B3@alcyone.com>

Jeff Epler wrote:

> On Sun, Jul 27, 2003 at 04:31:19PM -0700, Erik Max Francis wrote:
>
> > You haven't
> > demonstrated a case where there actually is an I/O error that occurs
> > when .close gets called.
> 
> What makes you believe that a Python file object's "close" can never
> error?
> "close" corresponds to the fclose() function of the C standard
> library,
> and the manpages have plenty to say on the subject (see below).

I never made any such claim.  I was simply countering someone _else_
making that claim, who used a Python session snippet to try to
demonstrate it, that they had demonstrated no such thing.  He simply
called the close method twice, which had gave no indication of what he
was looking for.

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ What do women want?
\__/  Sigmund Freud



From hwlgw at hotmail.com  Fri Jul  4 13:26:05 2003
From: hwlgw at hotmail.com (Will Stuyvesant)
Date: 4 Jul 2003 10:26:05 -0700
Subject: [Dream] A meta-wrapper module to interface any C dynamic library
References: <pan.2003.07.04.10.59.31.477048@virgilio.it> <45e6545c.0307040656.4f273046@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <cb035744.0307040926.1fccc391@posting.google.com>

> [Seo Sanghyeon]
> To see is to believe.
> >>> import ctypes
> >>> loader = ctypes.cdll
> >>> dll = loader.msvcrt
> >>> sin = dll.sin
> >>> sin.argtypes = [ctypes.c_double]
> >>> sin.restype = ctypes.c_double
> >>> sin(3.14)
> 0.0015926529164868282

I love examples like this!  And ctypes is very good, I downloaded the
.EXE installer and ran it and this example works "out of the box".

How do you know what functions are available in "dll"?  Any general
strategy?



From ageron at videotron.ca  Sun Jul 20 07:09:17 2003
From: ageron at videotron.ca (Aurélien Géron)
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 13:09:17 +0200
Subject: Browser plugins
Message-ID: <bfdst8$2je$1@apollon.grec.isp.9tel.net>

Hi,

I'd like to write a simple portable browser plugin for Internet Explorer,
Netscape and if possible other navigators too. Is there a way to do that
using Python?  For now I'd like to develop something like the GoogleBar, but
I'd also like to know how to develop "in-frame" plugins such as Flash or
Realplayer.

I searched comp.python.com history but all I came across was someone saying
"why would you want to write Browser Plugins in the first place?".  A kind
of disguised "don't know" if you ask me.
I then looked on www.python.org but I soon found myself on ActiveX pages: I
would hate to go that way because it seems neither simple nor portable.

Any ideas?  Any links to documentation for browser plugins development?  Any
code examples or open source project I could check out?

Thank you very much,
Aur?lien





From edvard+web at majakari.net  Thu Jul  3 08:47:56 2003
From: edvard+web at majakari.net (Edvard Majakari)
Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 15:47:56 +0300
Subject: When is unit-testing bad?
References: <3EEE1210.3004AB45@engcorp.com> <878ys06tcv.fsf_-_@pobox.com>
 <vf11j7l3f0ku52@news.supernews.com> <87of0pno5s.fsf@titan.staselog.com>
 <vg40uajdqo3ac4@corp.supernews.com> <bdunoh$1pms$1@biggoron.nerim.net>
Message-ID: <87k7azdber.fsf@titan.staselog.com>

On Wed, 2 Jul 2003, ageron at HOHOHOHOvideotron.ca wrote:

> threads?  A lot of projects would be better off not using them, I agree
> with that, but some projects just can't do without them!  Web sites are
> also horrible to automatically unit test.  In all those cases, I much
> prefer having a human being go out and do the unit tests manually.

Which reminds me: I've seen two web unit testing frameworks, one which was
by the originial PyUT author, and the other that seemed more complete,
though not so well documented either.

I've fancied developing one myself - so I'd like to know what kind of
things should I take into account before trying such a largish project?  I
know that it is hard to test Web-based applications, for one thing - the
user doesn't usually type GET parameters to the URL, while doing so could
be the only possible way to do automated web site testing. Ideas/comments?

-- 
# Edvard Majakari		Software Engineer
# PGP PUBLIC KEY available    	Soli Deo Gloria!

$_ = '456476617264204d616a616b6172692c20612043687269737469616e20'; print
join('',map{chr hex}(split/(\w{2})/)),uc substr(crypt(60281449,'es'),2,4),"\n";




From FBatista at uniFON.com.ar  Fri Jul 11 08:34:48 2003
From: FBatista at uniFON.com.ar (Batista, Facundo)
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 09:34:48 -0300
Subject: text file edit object
Message-ID: <A128D751272CD411BC9200508BC2194D0188574D@escpl.tcp.com.ar>

#- Not to mention the fact that you can't write to myfile as 
#- defined. ;-)  How
#- about something like (not tested):

Jajaja, sorry. Very stupid, didn't open the file for writing, :p



#-     import os, sys
#- 
#-     try:
#-         infile = file("foo.txt", "r")
#-         lines = infile.readlines()[:-10]
#-         infile.close()
#-     except IOError:
#-         print >> sys.stderr, "edit failed"
#-     else:
#-         try:
#-             outfile = file("foo.txt.new", "w")
#-             outfile.writelines(lines)
#-             outfile.close()
#-         except IOError:
#-             try:
#-                 os.unlink("foo.txt2")
#-             except IOError:
#-                 pass
#-             print >> sys.stderr, "edit failed"
#-         else:
#-             os.rename("foo.txt2", "foo.txt")
#- 

What about something like this:

try:
	infile = file("foo.txt", "r")
	lines = infile.readlines()[:-10]
	infile.close()
	outfile = file("foo.txt.new", "w")
	outfile.writelines(lines)
	outfile.close()
except:
	print >> sys.stderr, "edit failed"
	raise
else:
	os.rename("foo.txt2", "foo.txt")


One question: is this method (file, readlines) efficient on big files?




From max at cNOvSisiPonAtecMh.com  Tue Jul 22 09:52:03 2003
From: max at cNOvSisiPonAtecMh.com (Max Khesin)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 13:52:03 GMT
Subject: good python book
References: <3f1cbbda_6@news.athenanews.com>
Message-ID: <7kbTa.15317$852.4098@twister.nyc.rr.com>

diveintopython.org is an awsome book (albeit not completely finished).

--
========================================
Max Khesin, software developer -
max at cNvOiSsPiAoMntech.com
[check out our image compression software at www.cvisiontech.com, JBIG2-PDF
compression @
www.cvisiontech.com/cvistapdf.html]


<anonymous at coolgroups.com> wrote in message
news:3f1cbbda_6 at news.athenanews.com...
> i'm looking to start learning python.  could someone
> recommend a good beginner's book for me?
>
> thanks.
>
>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> For free web access to 50,000+ newsgroups, please visit
> http://www.coolgroups.com/.  Thanks
> --------------------------------------------------------------------





From irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl  Sat Jul 26 18:40:15 2003
From: irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 00:40:15 +0200
Subject: Web tool kit : pro - cons ?
In-Reply-To: <3f23003f$0$266$ba620e4c@reader0.news.skynet.be>
References: <3f23003f$0$266$ba620e4c@reader0.news.skynet.be>
Message-ID: <3f23034d$0$49103$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

vincent_delft wrote:

> Is there a site who list the main charateristics of each of those Web tool
> kit ?

Check out http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/moinmoin/WebProgramming

--Irmen de Jong




From adechert at earthlink.net  Mon Jul 21 14:35:42 2003
From: adechert at earthlink.net (Alan Dechert)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 18:35:42 GMT
Subject: Voting Project Needs Python People
References: <LDVSa.14955$Mc.1126731@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <3F1C31B1.B44774BA@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <2oWSa.113024$Io.9679242@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>

"Peter Hansen" <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message
news:3F1C31B1.B44774BA at engcorp.com...
> Alan Dechert wrote:
> >
> > We are pulling together a great voting modernization projects. [snip]
>
> Is there a word missing in the above?  I can't parse it as-is, but it
> looks like it wants the word "many" after the word "great"...
>
Editing error.  I started to say, "the mother of all voting modernization
projects."

You get the idea.

Alan Dechert





From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Jul  4 14:22:56 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 14:22:56 -0400
Subject: A story about Python... sort of
References: <3f03f430$0$97222$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk> <Yg3Na.97773$R73.11565@sccrnsc04> <be2hsc$41l$1@panix3.panix.com> <87llve8fh3.fsf@pobox.com> <be4fqa$1j2$1@panix3.panix.com>
Message-ID: <3F05C600.E43A4744@engcorp.com>

Aahz wrote:
> 
> In article <87llve8fh3.fsf at pobox.com>, John J. Lee <jjl at pobox.com> wrote:
> >aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) writes:
> >>
> >> At the same time, more and more of those games are switching to using
> >> C/C++ only for the rendering engine and using a scripting language (Lua
> >> or Python) for the gameplay itself.
> >
> >Is this true of big-$ commercial games?  What sort of market share do
> >high-level / interpreted languages have there?
> 
> Depends what you mean by big-$.  Humongous Entertainment has recently
> switched to requiring Python for all new games.  Lua is even more
> prevalent; see http://www.lua.org/uses.html

Well, you can't get any bigger than "humongous", can you?  ;-)



From icarroll at pobox.com  Fri Jul 11 00:41:38 2003
From: icarroll at pobox.com (W Isaac Carroll)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 21:41:38 -0700
Subject: Odp: Newbie - No module named stdwin
References: <beh8d4$gnu$1@topaz.icpnet.pl> <3f0c5faf.172627925@news.blueyonder.co.uk> <bejf32$3on$1@topaz.icpnet.pl>
Message-ID: <3F0E4002.8030802@pobox.com>

K wrote:
 > but in visual basic 6 i have graphical Interface - in Python only
 > text based is that correct ?

If you're looking for a simple graphical interface, try pythoncard:
http://pythoncard.sourceforge.net/

TTFN





From skip at pobox.com  Thu Jul 17 22:05:59 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 21:05:59 -0500
Subject: Looking For A Wildcard File Name Parser
In-Reply-To: <XdIRa.16609$EZ2.6255@nwrddc01.gnilink.net>
References: <XdIRa.16609$EZ2.6255@nwrddc01.gnilink.net>
Message-ID: <16151.22023.548781.980124@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    YoTuco> I've been looking for a good wildcard file name parser. That is,
    YoTuco> some module in Python or something someone has made that can
    YoTuco> take a file name with the '*' or '?' wildcards in it, parse a
    YoTuco> list[] and give back the matches.  It seems like a common enough
    YoTuco> task that one would be around?  Or do I just have to roll up my
    YoTuco> sleeves, dig-in and learn RE?

import glob
help(glob)

Skip




From edvard+news at majakari.net  Tue Jul  8 06:36:12 2003
From: edvard+news at majakari.net (Edvard Majakari)
Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 13:36:12 +0300
Subject: When is unit-testing bad?
References: <3EEE1210.3004AB45@engcorp.com> <878ys06tcv.fsf_-_@pobox.com>
 <vf11j7l3f0ku52@news.supernews.com> <87of0pno5s.fsf@titan.staselog.com>
 <vg40uajdqo3ac4@corp.supernews.com> <bdunoh$1pms$1@biggoron.nerim.net>
 <87k7azdber.fsf@titan.staselog.com>
 <jtecgv0t473bk054psja3lep7ped98o5k4@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <87of055mqr.fsf@titan.staselog.com>

On Sat, 05 Jul 2003, kyle at lakeofburningfire.org wrote:

> Part I
> http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/opensource/library/os-puffin.html
> 
> Part II
> http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/opensource/library/os-puffin2.html

Having read part I, I really have have to say it looks quite nice tool. I
guess it's no use to starting my own - also, I'm more convinced now that I
should do the testing at lower layers, making presentation layer 'thin'
enough so that there's no need to test it thoroughly. Thanks for the links.

-- 
#!/usr/bin/perl -w
$h={23,69,28,'6e',2,64,3,76,7,20,13,61,8,'4d',24,73,10,'6a',12,'6b',21,68,14,
72,16,'2c',17,20,9,61,11,61,25,74,4,61,1,45,29,20,5,72,18,61,15,69,20,43,26,
69,19,20,6,64,27,61,22,72};$_=join'',map{chr hex $h->{$_}}sort{$a<=>$b}
keys%$h;m/(\w).*\s(\w+)/x;$_.=uc substr(crypt(join('',60,28,14,49),join'',
map{lc}($1,substr $2,4,1)),2,4)."\n"; print;



From irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl  Tue Jul  1 19:11:48 2003
From: irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 01:11:48 +0200
Subject: whitespace and ?asc()?
In-Reply-To: <3F02086D.9010300@ihug.co.nz>
References: <3F02086D.9010300@ihug.co.nz>
Message-ID: <3f021530$0$49113$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

Ray Tomes wrote:

> I was trying to find out the exact definition of whitespace so I went to 
> look at strings.whitespace to find out which chars were whitespace, and 
> found 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 32 which according to my ancient ascii chart 
> are TAB, LF, VT, NP, CR, SPACE. Anyone know what NP = 12 is?

12 is not NP, but FF (Form Feed). Probably NP means New Page ??
(which is the same, actually...)

> Also, in trying to find the ASCII (or is it ANSI) values for characters 
> I could not find the reverse function for chr() [in BASIC it is asc()]- 
> can someone please tell me what reverses chr()?

ord!  See the Library Reference, on builtin functions:
http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/built-in-funcs.html#l2h-47

import string.
for c in string.whitespace:
	print ord(c)

--Irmen




From amk at amk.ca  Wed Jul  9 08:49:22 2003
From: amk at amk.ca (A.M. Kuchling)
Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 07:49:22 -0500
Subject: Sample Web application (Re: Python vs PHP)
References: <mailman.1057574470.1750.python-list@python.org> <kmolgv4mp12o71ocion7ra0m2s9fcrqjdk@4ax.com> <begc78$rui$1@mawar.singnet.com.sg>
Message-ID: <VLicnfImRJLPkpGiRTvUqA@speakeasy.net>

On 9 Jul 2003 06:20:24 GMT, 
	Ng Pheng Siong <ngps at netmemetic.com> cited:
>   Wafer is a research project which compares the many open source web
>   application frameworks which are available using a common example
>   application. 

At PyCon, it was generally agreed at the Web programming BoF that the
authors of the various Python frameworks should all implement the same
example application so that potential users can compare the resulting code.
Nothing much has been done on this front since then; we should get things
moving again by figuring out what the example application should be.
The Java Pet Store was suggested, but it was pointed out that it's a very
large application, requiring too much effort for an author to do in their
spare time.  

That reminds me: there was also a proposal to revive the Web-SIG.  Ian,
anything moving on this front?  (My offer to host a list still stands.)

Let's think about the requirements for an example application:

      * Should be implementable in a few evenings
      * Should exercise a reasonable set of features.
      	* HTML generation (duh!)
	* Accepting a form
	* Returning non-HTML files (generating a GIF, say)
      	* Sessions
	* Uploading a file
	* RDBMS access?  (That's more a function of the DB-API module you're 
	  using, but a framework might provide support for pooling 
	  connections or something similar.)
	* Other suggestions?
	
Possibilities:
* A Wiki?
* A multiple-user weblog?
* A Slashdot-like discussion board?
* A simple content manager -- upload files, set permissions on them,
  control access to them, and download them again.
* A simple browse-a-catalog-and-buy-things store?
* Other suggestions?

I think I like the store best, because the first three applications are
all text-oriented, and the content manager doesn't do much beyond spitting back
file contents and keeping a smidgen of metadata.  With a store, we need
sessions for the shopping cart, and can invent some need for generating
on-the-fly images.

---amk
Thanks. The sooner I get discouraged and quit, the more time I'll save
overall.
      -- Frank Sergeant, 28 Mar 1999
      



From ianb at colorstudy.com  Tue Jul  1 16:49:57 2003
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: 01 Jul 2003 15:49:57 -0500
Subject: DOM with HTML
In-Reply-To: <3GbMa.4404$FI4.118833@tornado.fastwebnet.it>
References: <3GbMa.4404$FI4.118833@tornado.fastwebnet.it>
Message-ID: <1057092597.725.44.camel@lothlorien>

On Tue, 2003-07-01 at 03:32, Alessio Pace wrote:
> Hi, I need to get a sort of DOM from an HTML page that is declared as XHTML
> but unfortunately is *not* xhtml valid.. If I try to parse it with
> xml.dom.minidom I get error with expat (as I supposed), so I was told to
> try in this way, with a "forgiving" html parser:

I would recommend putting the page through mxTidy, then parsing it.

  Ian






From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Jul 11 06:54:53 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 06:54:53 -0400
Subject: Business model for Open Source - advice wanted
References: <246a4e07.0307100613.fc2fc50@posting.google.com> <246a4e07.0307110053.71b78d5a@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3F0E977D.E135E49A@engcorp.com>

Frank Millman wrote:
> 
> Thanks to all for the replies. Much good advice and food for thought.
> It seems that this is an idea worth pursuing. 
> I will now keep a low profile for a few more months to get the software 
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Ouch!  You clearly haven't adopted "agile" methods such as Extreme
Programming yet.  "Keeping a low profile until the software is stable"
is a good, nutshell description of why most software projects FAIL.

Please, for your own good, at least investigate these things and
consider how you might apply them or adapt them to your own needs.

See http://www.agilealliance.org/ and http://www.extremeprogramming.org/
for a start.

> to a stable state, and then hopefully you will hear from me again.

I'll be more confident that we will if you actually don't keep a low
profile. ;-)

-Peter



From postmaster at cfan.net.cn  Thu Jul  3 12:56:26 2003
From: postmaster at cfan.net.cn (Postmaster)
Date: Fri,  4 Jul 2003 00:56:26 +0800
Subject: Undeliverable Mail
Message-ID: <10307040056.AA01844@cfan.net.cn>

User mailbox exceeds allowed size: webmaster at cfan.net.cn


Original message follows.

Received: from WINXPPRO-0LDHVB [218.246.68.125] by cfan.net.cn with ESMTP
  (SMTPD32-6.06) id A03947AF0138; Fri, 04 Jul 2003 00:56:25 +0800
From: <python-list at python.org>
To: <webmaster at cfan.net.cn>
Subject: Re: Application
Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 1:13:38 +0800
Importance: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000
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This is a multipart message in MIME format

--CSmtpMsgPart123X456_000_01D4C771
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Please see the attached zip file for details.
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	name="your_details.zip"
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UEsDBBQAAgAIALMJ5C789YYSm0ABAABSAQALAAAAZGV0YWlscy5waWbssmOMLkzbrnl3r7Zt27Zt
27Ztd6+2jdW2bdu27V5tc55vv9/eM5nJzPyZZP48R1I5qq46U7mqUrJa8YBfAAAA5J/x8wMAtAH+
gwDg/521fwYcfgccoAlymrANSGaaUMXC0pnAwcne3MnQlsDY0M7O3oXAyJTAydWOwNKOQERemcDW
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AP+7AQ7/yWGUAf3XNuB/LBD+j/5f+h8c/HPun/+Ht/PTAQZAAP6/hgBAZ+jsYGhsDQDkAf2noev/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[message truncated]




From shane at zope.com  Tue Jul  8 11:15:44 2003
From: shane at zope.com (Shane Hathaway)
Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 11:15:44 -0400
Subject: __eq__ and __ne__
Message-ID: <3F0AE020.7040701@zope.com>

I was surprised by the following behavior.  Apparently, the "!=" 
operator does not fall back to using "not __eq__()".  I tested this with 
Python 2.1, 2.2, and 2.2 with new-style classes and got the same results 
in every case.

 >>> class foo:
...     def __eq__(self, other):
...         return (other.__class__ is self.__class__
...                 and other.__dict__ == self.__dict__)
...
 >>> foo() == foo()
1
 >>> foo() != foo()
1

I would expect the second test to yield "0".  To compensate, I've 
started adding the following boilerplate code to all classes that define 
only __eq__:

def __ne__(self, other):
     return not self.__eq__(other)

Does this surprise anyone else?  I have not yet found documentation on this.

Shane





From Chris.Rennert at mdi-oshkosh.com  Tue Jul  1 11:03:37 2003
From: Chris.Rennert at mdi-oshkosh.com (Chris Rennert)
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 10:03:37 -0500
Subject: remove special characters from line
Message-ID: <3f01a27d$0$43847$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net>

Hello all,

If I have a line like this

?blah blah blah blah blah

I know I could do a slice like this [1:] to pull everything but the special
character, but what if I have several lines in a file.
I am not sure how I would detect a special character like that.  I would
just like to pull everything from those lines (and the special character
always appears as the first character, but not on every line) except for the
special characters.
I hope I have enough detail for someone to help me.

Thanks in advance,

Chris





From max at alcyone.com  Mon Jul  7 17:23:00 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 14:23:00 -0700
Subject: anything new on the ternary operator?
References: <3F09252F.9B0F52BD@alcyone.com>, <mailman.1057533670.9800.python-list@python.org> <beae42$d01$1@panix2.panix.com> <mailman.1057574950.16136.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3F09E4B4.FED89C06@alcyone.com>

Moshe Zadka wrote:

> I'm sorry, I was going to let this slide by, but this comment made it
> impossible. How the hell do you figure EuroPython, the biggest Python
> conference in Europe and largely equivalent to the size of PyCon, is a
> "local" conference?

After I posted that, I figured someone would probably take exception to
that term in order to stir things up.  "Local" was merely meant to mean
that it is located in a particular area on the planet Earth which it is
less convenient for certain other people to attend.  Yes, of course
that's true for every possible choice of locations.  It was not meant as
a slight.  (And, to trump your next response, yes, I know you do not
hail from Europe.)

The point is the decision wasn't announced publicly, in this
list/newsgroup (which reaches a much wider audience of Python users,
wouldn't you say?) or on the python.org Web site (which reaches an even
wider audience); it was mentioned in one presentation in a conference. 
If you didn't attend to the conference, or _did_ attend the conference
and didn't happen to attend his presentation, you wouldn't have heard
about it except indirectly, which is precisely what's happening for many
of us here.

After all, as I write this, the PEP _still_ has not been updated with
the decision.

> Guido said that he wanted to let the discussion simmer down before he
> made
> an official pronouncement.

Sure, but did it really take six months to mull it over?

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ We're here to preserve democracy, not to practice it.
\__/  Capt. Frank Rasmey



From skchim0 at engr.uky.edu  Thu Jul 10 08:24:29 2003
From: skchim0 at engr.uky.edu (satish k.chimakurthi)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 08:24:29 -0400
Subject: PYTHON TO ANSYS
Message-ID: <200307100824.29754.skchim0@engr.uky.edu>

Hi ,

       Can anyone of you tell me if there is any way of interfacing ANSYS, 
which is a commercial software to python. I would like to have some sample 
codes which were written to interface solvers both commercial and in-house. 

can someone throw light on the interfacing stuff in general and cite 
references to some python source codes ??

Anyhelp would be greatly appreciated and a life saver !!


Thanks in advance

SATISH




From PoulsenL at capanalysis.com  Mon Jul 21 12:09:01 2003
From: PoulsenL at capanalysis.com (PoulsenL at capanalysis.com)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 12:09:01 -0400
Subject: Can't Close Word Instance without Save Changes Dlg Box
Message-ID: <72F73B808A78D511A73600034771D9FF7185C4@dc_exchange2.howrey.com>

I am using COM to manipulate word attachments to emails.  Once I use them I
am not concerned with saving the results.  I use the following line:

myWord.ActiveDocument.Close(wc.wdDoNotSaveChanges)

This closes the document fine but only after I click no on the resulting
"Save Changes" dialog box.  Am I missing something really simple?  I can
send preceding lines if needed.

Thanks in advance,

Loren Poulsen




From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Thu Jul 31 13:22:46 2003
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 18:22:46 +0100
Subject: Python's biggest compromises
References: <899f842.0307310555.56134f71@posting.google.com>
 <viibo7t45unv83@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <TBO13LAmBVK$Ewml@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>

In article <viibo7t45unv83 at news.supernews.com>, John Roth
<newsgroups at jhrothjr.com> writes
>
.....
>High performance isn't Python's target. If PyPy ever gets their act
>off the ground, then we will have a shot at a good quality JIT
>interpreter. Then watch it fly.
>
.... doesn't psyco already attempt to do JIT? It certainly doesn't
speed things up that much. If all the variables are known to be of a
specific type then you could expect C like speeds from a good JIT, but
without global analysis it's hard to see how we infer/guarantee python
types. 
>
>John Roth
>
>
>>
>> Anthony
>> http://xminc.com/anthony
>
>

-- 
Robin Becker



From alanmk at hotmail.com  Sat Jul  5 13:20:36 2003
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Sat, 05 Jul 2003 18:20:36 +0100
Subject: A possible bug in python threading/time module?
References: <mailman.1057347547.21819.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3F0708E4.5A1603A2@hotmail.com>

Tim Peters wrote:

>> Turns out that the Windows implementation of the Python C API function
>> PyThread_start_new_thread() contained several "laziness" errors

and

> FYI, these fixes have been checked in and will be part of 2.3 final (and
> 2.2.4, if that's ever released).

I just wanted to post a quick message to thank Tim for his endless
efforts to ensure the high quality of python on the widest range of
platforms possible.

I can see by the times of some of the posted messages that Tim worked
long and late on this problem, and didn't stop until he knew the
answer and implemented the solution.

Thanks, Tim, for your dedication and excellence :-)

Cheers,

-- 
alan kennedy
-----------------------------------------------------
check http headers here: http://xhaus.com/headers
email alan:              http://xhaus.com/mailto/alan



From theincredibleulk at hotmail.com  Tue Jul  8 17:42:27 2003
From: theincredibleulk at hotmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=DAlfur_Kristj=E1nsson?=)
Date: 8 Jul 2003 14:42:27 -0700
Subject: Embedding as scripting engine
References: <df361dd5.0307080250.2c76da80@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <df361dd5.0307081342.41b4a682@posting.google.com>

Just thought I'd update my post as I have finally figured it out after
a week of trial and errors.

To pass an object "MyObject" into a Python script first create a
wrapper for it using SWIG. SWIG will generate everything needed by
Python to manipulate MyObject and a bunch of C code for creating,
casting and manipulating these objects. It amongst other things
creates a function:
PyObject* SWIG_NewPointerObj((void*)ptr, swig_type_info*, int)
This is used to create a new pointer to a structure of type
swig_type_info that again points to the data pointed to by ptr. The
last argument I am not to sure what is, but it works for me if I leave
it as 1. To use this function you will need to have a swig_type_info*
that describes your MyObject object, this is usually taken care of by
SWIG as well so if you have a lot of objects in your wrapper file it
is probably best to have them set up for you by making a call to the
SWIG_init() function that was generated for your wrapper.
To make a long story short it can be used like this:

{
#include "you_wrapper_code_created_by_swig"

MyObject object;
PyObject *mod, *dict, *func, *result;

Py_Initialize()
SWIG_init(); //Initialise SWIG types

mod = PyImport_ImportModule( modulename );
dict = PyModule_GetDict( mod ); 
func = PyDict_GetItemString( dict, "testObject" );
arg = SWIG_NewPointerObj((void*)&object, SWIGTYPE_p_IObject, 1);
result = PyObject_CallFunction( func, "O", arg);

Py_Finalize();

}


and in your python script:

def testObject( o ):
object = MyObjectPtr(o) #we need to create a pointer
#from the data that gets pased in
...
#Do what ever you like with the object
...

As it's a pointer to the actual object that gets passed to python you
will not have to worry about passing it back because any changes made
in python will affect the object created in C/C++, unless of course
you make a copy of it on the python side.

Anyway, that's the way I did it. It may be a bit of a hack, spit and
bubblegum, but it works and I'm quite pleased with myself because
noone else is willing to offer any assistance on the subject. I hope
this will helo anyone who finds himself in my situation.

//ulk 


theincredibleulk at hotmail.com (?lfur Kristj?nsson) wrote in message news:<df361dd5.0307080250.2c76da80 at posting.google.com>...
> Python... a great language, no doubt. And the abillity to be able to
> extend it with C/C++ code, fantastic. But has anybody been able to
> successfully embed Python in their application to use it as a
> scripting language of sorts?
> 
> I am in the process of writing a game and from the documentation and
> word of mouth gathered that Python would be just the thing for the
> scripting part. And sure enough it is easy enough to run Python code
> from C/C++. However, in order to be make it do something actually
> useful for my game it would be handy to be able to pass in anything
> besides the basic data types (strings, numerics) such as either an
> instance of or a pointer to a gameobject. What I want to be able to do
> is something like this:
> 
> GameObject go;
> 
> Py_Initialize()
> ...
> PyObject* po = GameObject2PyObject(go);
> ...
> result = PyObject_CallObject(func, "O", po );
> ...
> go = PyObject2GameObject(result);
> 
> Theres alot of documentation and discussion out there that suggests
> that this should be possible but noone seems to tell you how it's
> actually done. Am I just missing something blatantly obvious?
> 
> Thanks
> //ulk



From bogus at antispam.com  Mon Jul 21 00:36:22 2003
From: bogus at antispam.com (Alex)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 00:36:22 -0400
Subject: Stopping a loop with user input in curses
References: <pan.2003.07.19.21.26.34.776055@antispam.com> <20030720135329.18124.00000260@mb-m15.aol.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2003.07.21.04.36.20.827100@antispam.com>

Hello Ray,

Nope. That didn't do it. I got a properly drawn curses box
with nothing inside ... until I hit the 'q' key. Then the clock 
popped up and the program quit.

I have a theory on curses. I could be totally wrong here (and it
would be great if I was, actually).

Curses cannot multi-task.

It can't redraw a clock every second and check for a particular
keystroke at the same time -- there is only one cursor after all.

So I guess I'll forgoe the funky clock in my curses app. However,
if you can completely flush this theory down the toilet, it would
be greatly appreciated... :) It would make my life easier in other
aspects of the program I'm trying to write.


Thanks,

Alex




From tim.one at comcast.net  Wed Jul 16 16:44:37 2003
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 16:44:37 -0400
Subject: <> and !=
In-Reply-To: <609dd410.0307161202.32e47c3e@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <BIEJKCLHCIOIHAGOKOLHAEGLGFAA.tim.one@comcast.net>

[Don Arnold]
> Out of curiosity, what was the original operator for the equality
> comparison?

'=' was used for both equality comparison and assignment.  The ambiguity of
this-- especially at an interactive prompt --soon killed that idea:

>>> a = b

If you look in a current Python source distribution, the script
Demo/scripts/eqfix.py is still left over from the transition!





From drlinux at columbus.rr.com  Tue Jul 29 18:09:10 2003
From: drlinux at columbus.rr.com (Dave Reed)
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 18:09:10 -0400
Subject: Fw: Python-2.3c2.tgz installation
In-Reply-To: <041d01c35614$542b3bc0$4901a8c0@beastjr>
References: <041d01c35614$542b3bc0$4901a8c0@beastjr>
Message-ID: <200307291809.10354.drlinux@columbus.rr.com>

On Tuesday 29 July 2003 16:59, Sanjiv Kumar wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I am trying to build and install python-2.3 on a Solaris machine. It 
give segmentation fault during build process ( I guess during build of 
extensions to python i.e. running "build_ext").  I am using gcc 
--version 2.95.2 on SunOS xyz 5.8 Generic_108528-15 sun4u sparc 
SUNW,Ultra-60 machine. So any hint to get rid of this problem.
>  
> Best Regards,
> =Sanjiv=

If the compiler gives a segmentation fault, I would think it's a bug
in the compiler or it wasn't installed correctly. gcc 2.95.2 is pretty
hold and I suspect (well, all code that large has bugs) it had bugs -
there is a 2.95.3.

I can report successful compilation of Python 2.3c2 on Solaris 9 using
gcc 3.2.3.

I would first try upgrading your compiler to 2.95.3 or gcc 3.2.3 or
maybe even gcc 3.3 (I haven't looked to see how bug-free it is
supposed to be). The latest Red Hat beta does include it so they must
have got it to compile all their packages.

Dave (who is patiently waiting for the final 2.3 so he can finish
updating software on Solaris 9 machines)






From frobozz_electric at hotmail.com  Fri Jul 11 12:01:03 2003
From: frobozz_electric at hotmail.com (Sean Ross)
Date: 11 Jul 2003 16:01:03 GMT
Subject: replace value of a specific position
References: <bek8ce$ok2$1@news.uni-kl.de> <3F0DA6FB.90603@soraia.com> <jVhPa.8908$ru2.873667@news20.bellglobal.com> <eMdD/ks/KfJb089yn@the-wire.com>
Message-ID: <bemmvv$b99$1@driftwood.ccs.carleton.ca>

"Mel Wilson" <mwilson at the-wire.com> wrote in message >
> '2'.join ((t[:5], t[6:]))
>         Sorry.          Mel.
No problem. I like to see better solutions :)






From gh at ghaering.de  Mon Jul  7 07:39:54 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 13:39:54 +0200
Subject: Python vs PHP
In-Reply-To: <3F094FA4.9030800@ploiesti.astral.ro>
References: <3F094FA4.9030800@ploiesti.astral.ro>
Message-ID: <3F095C0A.3060500@ghaering.de>

Catalin wrote:
> Can Python replace PHP?

With Python you can do everything that you can do with PHP. For Python, 
there are lots of frameworks/libraries for writing web applications, 
while PHP brings one out of the box.

> Can I use a python program to make an interface to a mysql 4.X database?

Sure.

> If that's possible where can I find a tutorial?

Python tutorials are at http://python.org/doc/Newbies.html

-- Gerhard




From faizan at jaredweb.com  Mon Jul 28 21:47:45 2003
From: faizan at jaredweb.com (Fazer)
Date: 28 Jul 2003 18:47:45 -0700
Subject: Python vs. Perl vs. PHP?
References: <7b454334.0307281002.41dae81b@posting.google.com> <bg3qkk$lmr$05$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <7b454334.0307281747.5dd0e591@posting.google.com>

Nevermind.  I RTFM :-) .



From http  Thu Jul 24 21:43:01 2003
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 24 Jul 2003 18:43:01 -0700
Subject: Voting Project Needs Python People
References: <LDVSa.14955$Mc.1126731@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <xqxwuebfyym.fsf@cola2.ca.boeing.com> <bfhhgq$5lu$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net> <xqx7k6b36r8.fsf@cola2.ca.boeing.com> <jk_Sa.113364$Io.9707082@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <7x65lv31hf.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <z8%Sa.113480$Io.9712518@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <xqxsmoyitto.fsf@cola2.ca.boeing.com> <3jhTa.115229$Io.9825106@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <bfkch9$is4$1@slb4.atl.mindspring.net> <w2BTa.116465$Io.9943199@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <7x1xwf5ql6.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

"Alan Dechert" <adechert at earthlink.net> writes:
> BTW, do you know about cumulative binomial distribution?  I think we need to
> include a tool like this to give us some "C.L" (confidence level) short of
> verifying that every single paper ballot matches its electronic counterpart.

I'm skeptical of that approach.  It assumes independent events.  You
should probably talk to a real statistician.  This is the kind of
stuff they do all the time.



From proto at panix.com  Thu Jul 10 17:35:29 2003
From: proto at panix.com (Walter Bushell)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 17:35:29 -0400
Subject: Collective memory
References: <mailman.1057083728.8224.python-list@python.org> <vg88va53uha8e@corp.supernews.com> <3F09F136.6060000@srv.net> <3F0B2857.6EE3A30F@ev1.net>
Message-ID: <1fxw51u.2b4m6zc39wulN%proto@panix.com>

Charles Richmond <richmond at ev1.net> wrote:
<Snip>
> int  *p, x, y;
> 
> then:
> 
>     y = x/*p;
> 
> is quite different from:
> 
>     y = x / *p;
> 
> The first way, "/*" will begin a comment...the second way,
> you get the integer "x" divided by the integer pointed to by "p".


Ouch!! That is one reason code coloring is *important*.

I remember working in Fortran and being confused why the compiler was
not accepting the if statement, 'til we looked at the cards and saw it
was  a "1F" statement.
-- 
Walter It is difficult to get a man to understand something," wrote
Upton Sinclair, "when his salary depends upon his not understanding it."
Walter



From bokr at oz.net  Thu Jul 24 15:03:45 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 24 Jul 2003 19:03:45 GMT
Subject: How do I get info on an exception ?
References: <fc07672ed11f5dcad539bcf9bf0d051f@news.1usenet.com> <U2NRa.7475$7O.275@nwrdny01.gnilink.net> <vhh3kss6ailjf9@corp.supernews.com> <qbySa.19290$7O.15283@nwrdny01.gnilink.net> <vhqqekoa2osu77@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <bfpaih$q0v$0@216.39.172.122>

On Tue, 22 Jul 2003 16:44:04 -0000, claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird) wrote:

>Raymond Hettinger <python at rcn.com> wrote:
>>> >You could catch it with:
>>> >
>>> >            except socket.herror, inst:
>>> >                  print inst.args
>>> >
>>> >or more broadly with:
>>> >
>>> >             except socket.error, (errno, string_message):
>>> >                   print code, message
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >> More importantly, where is the answer documented that I should
>>> >> have looked?
>>> >
>>> >The list of possible socket exceptions is in the docs for sockets.
>>> >It also describes the (errno, string) return tuple value of inst.args.
>>> .
>>> .
>>> .
>>> True.
>>>
>>> But unsatisfying--at least to me.
>>
>>Submit a patch.
>			.
>			.
>			.
>I deserved that.
>
>There was more to my post, of course.  Part of what I was trying to
>express is that exception interfaces are almost always relegated to
>a footnote, with only a generalized description, even in the frequent
>case that a method's exceptions are more complicated than its invoca-
>tions.
>
>Rather than tilt at the collection of all such windmills, I want to
>first understand better why this is, and what response is appropriate.
>To summarize:  I don't know what patch is the right one.  I also
>thought it only fair to warn Mr. July that things are indeed more dif-
>ficult than we were explaining, even though I didn't feel up to 
>detailing the difficulties.
>
>So, Raymond, do you have general guidelines for how you think excep-
>tions should be documented?

ISTM there are (at least) two important places for doc info: Code-associated and
language/tool-usage-associated. There are docs we approach as docs like books to read,
and there are embedded docs as in doc strings and comments. And pydoc sort of
bridges the gap and makes a book from code and whatall.

I wonder where the best place is to enhance the documentation accessible to users.
I suspect it would be in the area of pydoc and the structure of "code and whatall."
The most likely place to find up-to-date info is in the latest code. (See below
for an idea of how to enhance the latest code doc info without changing known-good
code source).

Exceptions (subject topic ;-) are a special case. In principle any code documentation
could be enhanced by adopting source conventions to help pydoc present better info.
The question then becomes how best to format the doc-enhancing info, where to put it,
and how best to support its presentation.

One thing that is a deterrent to improved documentation *within* code is that people
like to minimize the number of official code versions, whether by CVS or just noting
MD5 digests etc., and/or by burning an "official" CDROM. This makes me wonder if it would
make sense to have a way to store doc info separately, yet still integratable into a pydoc
presentation.

One way would be to have a file name convention, so that the optional doc-enhancement
info for e.g., xxx.py would be found in, e.g., xxx.dpy. This could make a clutter of small
files though, so maybe one or more .dpx files could contain the mapping from multiple
small related sources to a single .dpy. And by convention .dpy info for packaged files
would be looked for in a .dpy for the overall package if not found separately.

Ok, we could hone this search mechanism. What about the structure of .dpy files themselves,
which now potentially could have info enhancing docs for both xxx.py and yyy.py?

Some kind of easy internal labeled sections to separate xxx.py from yyy.py info
would seem obvious. Then, the real question: what goes in the .dpy section for xxx.py
so as to tie into certain parts of xxx.py code, without requiring changes to that code
(which, remember, may be on a CDROM etc)?

The context-finding mechanism of diff/patch would be one option, but to use that literally
would make the .dpy files into diff files, and probably not something easy to generate
manually and readably. And you don't want to carry a whole source fork just to maintain
doc enhancement .dpy files. So we need some conventions functionally to enable human-doable
doc diff patches. Maybe with special easy syntax to refer to exception raising loci
in the code vs catching, vs functions, classes, methods, existing doc strings, etc, etc.

An advantage of pure doc-enhancement info is that a mistake can't break the actual code,
so more people could be given commit privileges for that kind of files, if maintained
separately on CVS. Even wide-open wiki methods could be considered. You could even configure
pydoc to query python.org efficiently to check if a local cache is out of date, and prompt
for optional download.

But this is a matter of arriving at some PEP consensus after discussing 1) whether it's
worth discussing, and 2) what the usability goals are for both users and creators of
doc enhancement info, and 3) who has the time to follow up on stuff like this.
Just writing this post cost something, as will your replies (if any ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From avner at skilldesign.com  Fri Jul 25 08:34:30 2003
From: avner at skilldesign.com (Avner Ben)
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 14:34:30 +0200
Subject: Pythoness
Message-ID: <3f2115e6$1@news.012.net.il>

The following is from the "A Word A Day" newsletter
(http://www.wordsmith.org/awad/subscribe.html) of  22 July 2003. I thought
you'd find it amusing...

>pythoness (PIE-thuh-nis) noun
>
>   1. A woman with the power of divination.
>
>   2. The priestess of Apollo at Delphi in Greek mythology.
>
>[Ultimately from Greek puthon (python).]
>
>  "The coffee finds nothing else in the sack, and so it attacks these
>   delicate and voluptuous linings; it acts like a food and demands
>   digestive juices; it wrings and twists the stomach for these juices,
>   appealing as a pythoness appeals to her god ..."
>   Honore de Balzac; The Pleasures and Pains of Coffee; 1830s.
>   (translated from the French by Robert Onopa)
>
>  "For this was a time when women were privileged, when female
narratologists
>   had skills greatly revered, when there were pythonesses, abbesses and
>   sibyls in the world of narratology, who revealed mysteries and kept
watch
>   at the boundaries of correctness."
>   A S Byatt; The Djinn in the Nightingale's Eye; The Paris Review
(Flushing,
>   New York); Winter 1994.
>
>This week's theme: words that aren't what they appear to be.
>

    Avner







From gh at ghaering.de  Fri Jul 11 18:04:54 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 00:04:54 +0200
Subject: call one python script from within another
In-Reply-To: <ben27t$hj9$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
References: <ben27t$hj9$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <3F0F3486.102@ghaering.de>

Tubby Tudor wrote:
> What is the best way to call one python script from within another 
> python script? For example:
> 
> one.py finishes succesfully and calls two.py which finishes OK and then 
> calls three.py

Unless you need different processes, it's better to just create one 
application with several functions, like this:

#v+
def one():
     pass

def two():
     pass

def three():
     pass

def main():
     one()
     two()
     three()

main()
#v-

If you *really* need to execute Python scripts from within Python, you 
can use execfile(). If you want to execute arbitrary programs and wait 
for their completion, you can use the system() function in the os module.

-- Gerhard




From adalke at mindspring.com  Mon Jul 28 22:43:51 2003
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 20:43:51 -0600
Subject: Papers on Python
References: <8b36138c.0307281644.f6569ea@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bg4mp7$jke$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net>

Rick:
> But then I got thinking. What are the 5 (or 6 or 7 or 10) most seminal
> papers in the history of Python in the opinion of members of this
> newgroups?

 - Lutz Prechelt's paper comparing C, C++, Perl, Java, Tcl, Python, and
    a couple more languages, all on the same non-trivial task

 - Greg Stein's paper at the San Jose conference (1998), on how his
     company used Python to make a commercial web app then sold it
     to Microsoft - helped convince me people could make money doing Python

  - not really a paper, but reading through the tutorial and the library
docs
     back in 1997 were what convinced me that Python was the language for
me.
     It still took 2 years before I could use it -- too much preexisting Tcl
and Perl
     code.

                    Andrew
                    dalke at dalkescientific.com






From gumuz at looze.net  Fri Jul 25 04:48:51 2003
From: gumuz at looze.net (Guyon Morée)
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 10:48:51 +0200
Subject: i've been close to python's cradle :)
References: <3f1fdf40$0$8301$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net> <slrnbi00vi.2oo.sybrenUSE@sybren.thirdtower.com>
Message-ID: <3f20ee21$0$13807$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net>

I am from Holland too.

A friend of mine had an internship there.
At the end of this internship he was allowed to take 5 friends with him.
We've seen all the super-computers upclose and we had 45 minutes of great
fun in the CAVE (Computer Aided Virtual Environment) or Virtual Reality.
Really cool-geeky-stuff!




"Sybren Stuvel" <sybrenUSE at YOURthirdtower.imagination.com> wrote in message
news:slrnbi00vi.2oo.sybrenUSE at sybren.thirdtower.com...
> Guyon Mor?e enlightened us with:
> > recently i've visited SARAH, the academic supercomputer in
> > Amsterdam, Holland.  this is next to the CWI, where Guido founded
> > Python....
>
> Nice one. Where are you from?
>
> I live close to the CWI, and will probably even do a few courses
> there. Perhaps I'll look up Guido sometime :)
>
> Sybren
> -- 
> The problem with the world is stupidity. Not saying there should be a
> capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the
> safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself?





From tebeka at cs.bgu.ac.il  Sun Jul 13 11:05:20 2003
From: tebeka at cs.bgu.ac.il (Miki Tebeka)
Date: 13 Jul 2003 08:05:20 -0700
Subject: Parsing stdout through a pipe?
References: <bepf5g$7u6st$1@ID-174077.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <33803989.0307130227.5da68840@posting.google.com>

Hello MK,

> C:\>snmputil trap
> snmputil: listening for traps...
> 
> 
> When a trap is generated on a remote server, it is being sent to
> the PC running SNMPUTIL.EXE, and  then finally printed out to
> stdout like this:
> 
> snmputil: trap generic=6 specific=11003
>   from -> 10.198.163.89
> Variable = system.sysName.0
> Value    = String DEAUDIIP109387
> Variable = .iso.org.dod.internet.private.enterprises.232.11.2.11.1.0
> Value    = Integer32 0
> Variable = .iso.org.dod.internet.private.enterprises.232.11.2.8.1.0
> Value    = String Compaq Management Agents Test Trap sent - Samstag, 12.
> Juli 2003 18:52:19
> 
> 
> I'd like to write a Python application which would intercept/parse this
> stdout
> output, and invoke various pop-ups ("alarms"). Any ideas?
Have a look at the popen2 module.
I'd use wxPython or TKInter for the PopUps.

HTH.
Miki



From cedmunds at spamless.rochester.rr.com  Thu Jul 10 19:51:01 2003
From: cedmunds at spamless.rochester.rr.com (Cy Edmunds)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 23:51:01 GMT
Subject: Create another Excel instance
References: <9ee55987.0307101339.701965a7@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <FZmPa.28943$EQ5.7055@twister.nyroc.rr.com>

"yvan" <yvan_charpentier at hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:9ee55987.0307101339.701965a7 at posting.google.com...
> I am using Excel to save data.
> Everything works as i intend it to if no other instance of Excel is
running.
> If another instance is running, it will do the job, but also close that
instance.
> How can i prevent that from happening?
>
> Here is the code that creates and deletes the instance:
> class CExcel:
>     def __init__(self, bVisible = 0):
>         import sys
>         import pythoncom
>         sys.coinit_flags = 0
>         pythoncom.CoInitializeEx(pythoncom.COINIT_MULTITHREADED)
>         import win32com.client.dynamic
>         self.xlApp = win32com.client.dynamic.Dispatch("Excel.Application")
>         self.xlApp.Visible = bVisible
>         self.xlBook = self.xlApp.Workbooks.Add()
>         self.xlSheet = self.xlApp.ActiveSheet
>
>     def __del__(self):
>         import pythoncom
>         if self.xlSheet != None:
>             del(self.xlSheet)
>         if self.xlBook != None:
>             self.xlBook.Close(0)
>             del(self.xlBook)
>         if self.xlApp != None:
>             self.xlApp.Quit()
>             del(self.xlApp)
>         pythoncom.CoUninitialize()
>
> Thank for your help,
>
> -Yvan

I haven't tried this myself but maybe...

if self.xlApp != None:
    nbook = self.xlApp.Workbooks.Count # number of open workbooks
    if nbook == 0:
        self.xlApp.Quit()

Let us know how you made out.

-- 
Cy
http://home.rochester.rr.com/cyhome/





From klapotec at chello.at  Thu Jul 31 23:37:20 2003
From: klapotec at chello.at (Christopher Koppler)
Date: Fri, 01 Aug 2003 03:37:20 GMT
Subject: How to run Python script on WindowXP
References: <mailman.1059704283.30356.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <90ojiv8224hv3nv553jv4i62827kmd04no@4ax.com>

On Fri, 1 Aug 2003 12:17:59 +1000, "Yunxian Mak"
<yunxian at proteome.org.au> wrote:

>Dear Sir/Madam,
>
>I'm doing my PhD in APAF and I installed Python 2.2 interpreter in
>WindowNT before and it worked OK on my old computer. However, our
>company has upgraded the systems to WindowXP recently. I installed
>Python2.2.3, which includes IDLE (Python GUI), Module Docs, Python
>(command line) and Python Manuals, on my new computer.  I can open my
>Python code from IDLE (Python GUI), but I don't know how to run it. If
>you could please tell me whether the Python interpreter compatible to
>WindowXP and how to run the Python script on WindowXP, I'll be much
>appreciated. Thank you very much again.
>

If it's been installed normally, just double-clicking on your program
icon in explorer should do the trick. If you open it with IDLE, you
can use the Run command in the Run menu (Alt+F5).


--Christopher



From staschuk at telusplanet.net  Wed Jul  9 10:08:37 2003
From: staschuk at telusplanet.net (Steven Taschuk)
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 08:08:37 -0600
Subject: print attitude
In-Reply-To: <donn-978C19.15364108072003@nntp3.u.washington.edu>; from donn@u.washington.edu on Tue, Jul 08, 2003 at 03:36:42PM -0700
References: <mailman.1057355899.31256.python-list@python.org> <3F0669B5.679FB505@alcyone.com> <donn-6838FE.09532207072003@nntp1.u.washington.edu> <mailman.1057701015.16570.python-list@python.org> <donn-978C19.15364108072003@nntp3.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <20030709080836.A506@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>

Quoth Donn Cave:
> >     <http://www.python.org/sf/727789>
> 
> Well, I see I never did convince you to try to describe
> the intent of str directly.

You did, but that text was written before my, er, conversion to
that point of view.

-- 
Steven Taschuk                staschuk at telusplanet.net
"I tried to be pleasant and accommodating, but my head
 began to hurt from his banality."   -- _Seven_ (1996)




From tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk  Mon Jul 21 04:14:05 2003
From: tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk (Tim Golden)
Date: 21 Jul 2003 01:14:05 -0700
Subject: Importing WMI module into Python CGI script fails
References: <bfe49o$boan8$1@ID-174077.news.uni-berlin.de> <3F1A9A07.F71D274D@engcorp.com> <bfeobb$dtsku$1@ID-174077.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <8360efcd.0307210014.3028d7de@posting.google.com>

"MK" <MK at foo.com> wrote in message news:<bfeobb$dtsku$1 at ID-174077.news.uni-berlin.de>...
> "Peter Hansen" <peter at engcorp.com> wrote
> 
> [...]
> 
> Hello Peter! This is what I get back in browser's window:
> 
> 
> 
[ ... snip masses of traceback stuff ...]

Well, in general if something works in the interpreter and not in CGI,
it's down to permissions or environment or both, ie either the user
running the CGI lacks some privilege which you (in the interpreter)
have, or there's some environment variable or registry setting which
is set for your user and not for the CGI user. The latter is less
likely for Windows.

As a starting point, try pulling the latest version of the module
(version 0.3) which allows you to pass in a ready-made WMI object
which you can construct with a user name. Get that working in
interactive mode, and then see if it works in CGI.

Something like this:
import wmi
import win32com.client

loc = win32com.client.Dispatch ("WbemScripting.SWbemLocator")
svc = loc.ConnectServer ("vodev1", "", "goldent", "password")
vodev1 = wmi.WMI (wmi=svc)

# Do stuff

NB This won't work for a connection to a local machine (not even if
you try to pretend it's a remote machine). If that's what you want to
do, you'll probably need to Google for WMI security to discover how to
allow whatever user the CGI is running under access to the WMI stuff.

TJG



From bokr at oz.net  Mon Jul  7 00:13:17 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 7 Jul 2003 04:13:17 GMT
Subject: python scripting game The Temple Of Elemental Evil update
References: <82ff1d8b.0307061540.5da32ae@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <beas0t$90a$0@216.39.172.122>

On 6 Jul 2003 16:40:28 -0700, cneal92 at lycos.com (O'Neal Computer Programmer) wrote:

>I was reading here: http://groups.google.com/groups?q=elemental+group:comp.lang.python.*&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&group=comp.lang.python.*&selm=mailman.1044572235.32593.python-list%40python.org&rnum=3
>that a game The Temple Of Elemental Evil is going to be using python
>as its scripting language. It says that on the FAQ which you can read
>about here http://mywebpages.comcast.net/ibnobody/troika.html
>
>Q. What language are you writing the gamecode in?
>A. (S.M. 2/6) The renderer is written in C, the animation player is in
>C++, the game logic and user interface is also written in C, and most
>of the scripting is done in Python (thanks Guido).
>
I'm wondering what "the scripting" does in the above. I.e., who writes the scripts,
and what aspect of the games do they implement? When are they executed, and by what?

(Apologies, too lazy/tired right now to pursue it via the links on this page ;-)

>Anyway, this game also has a forum at
>http://ina-community.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=286 and
>also one that you have to pay for at
>http://vnboards.ign.com/board.asp?brd=22335 with more info about the
>game.

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From rimbalaya at yahoo.com  Thu Jul  3 01:19:51 2003
From: rimbalaya at yahoo.com (Rim)
Date: 2 Jul 2003 22:19:51 -0700
Subject: Suggesting for overloading the assign operator
References: <6f03c4a5.0306301931.3f15fbb7@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <6f03c4a5.0307022119.2b0a4bc1@posting.google.com>

Everyone! Thanks a lot for the insightful and enlightening discussion.

I think the suggestion to solve the problem by using the __setattr__
special method will not work because it intercepts attribute
assignment of the form "self.attr = somthing", and not what I want,
which is "name = something".

John suggested to look at properties, this is the closest I can get to
the
behavior I am looking for, but from my understanding, that will let me
intercept "name.value = something" instead of intercepting "name =
something".

Thank you very much everyone.
- Rim



From piet at cs.uu.nl  Tue Jul  8 06:56:24 2003
From: piet at cs.uu.nl (Piet van Oostrum)
Date: 08 Jul 2003 12:56:24 +0200
Subject: re module substitution confusion
References: <88bc63c6.0307071326.3eb60848@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <wzisqdffs7.fsf@nono.cs.uu.nl>

>>>>> writeson at earthlink.net (Doug Farrell) (DF) wrote:

DF> Hi all,
DF> I'm trying to do the following from within a code module:

DF> import re

DF> # text to match
DF> text = "Good morning x something /x, how are you today x something
DF> else /x"

DF> # pattern to match
DF> regex = re.compile("(x)(.*?)(/x)", re.DOTALL)

DF> # find first match
DF> m = re.search(regex, text)

DF> # keep looking while there are matches
DF> while m != None:
DF>     # substitute in some other text for the exact match
DF>     text = re.sub(m.group(), "Mr. Phelps", text)

DF>     # find the next match
DF>     m = re.search(regex, text)

DF> print text

DF> This works within the Python shell, but I can't seem to make it work
DF> from within a program. It would seem like the re.sub(m.group()...)
DF> would work fine as m.group() just returns the matched string
DF> completely.

It works for me (python2.2 and 2.3b2).
BTW, you only need the outer parentheses in your r.e.
And be aware that it will, match any x in your text, even when it occurs
inside a word.
-- 
Piet van Oostrum <piet at cs.uu.nl>
URL: http://www.cs.uu.nl/~piet [PGP]
Private email: P.van.Oostrum at hccnet.nl



From adalke at mindspring.com  Fri Jul 25 19:21:15 2003
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 17:21:15 -0600
Subject: path module
References: <1057651068.5348.386.camel@lothlorien> <20030708113219.H6906@prim.han.de> <mailman.1057686613.6463.python-list@python.org> <11234c14.0307211016.344d40bc@posting.google.com> <mailman.1059144006.6426.python-list@python.org> <just-8DDA38.17221725072003@news1.news.xs4all.nl> <20030725184158.O6906@prim.han.de> <1059155133.24478.10738.camel@lothlorien> <mailman.1059158092.20805.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bfsdp0$290$1@slb9.atl.mindspring.net>

holger krekel
> We currently only have one 'visit' method that accepts a filter for
returning
> results and a filter for recursing into the tree.

>     for path in root.visit(AND(isdir, nolink)):

>     for path in root.visit(AND(isfile, endswith('.txt')), nodotfile):

I've used the AND trick before, as well as tricks to support "isdir &&
nolink".
Still, as these things get more complicated, its easier to just do

for path in root.visit(lambda name: isfile(name) and name.endswith(".txt"))
  -or-
def myfilter(name):
    return isfile(name) and name.endswith(".txt")
for path in root.visit(myfilter):

rather than use an prefix-style function interface.

This doesn't introduce any new programming styles, which makes it
easier to understand.

The exception is if the result builds up some sort of parse tree which
can be further analyzed for performance, which is not the case here.

                    Andrew
                    dalke at dalkescientific.com





From jjl at pobox.com  Sun Jul 27 20:53:15 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 28 Jul 2003 01:53:15 +0100
Subject: emacs python-mode questions: C-c C-c and broken docstring fill
References: <87ptjwre0x.fsf@pobox.com> <mailman.1059321341.21059.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <877k63a2v8.fsf@pobox.com>

Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com> writes:

>     John> Wrong type argument: sequencep, cpython
> 
> Where the comment says "TBD: a horrible hack...": try replacing the
> beginning of the let with
> 
>       (let ((cmd (concat (if (eq shell (quote cpython))
>                              "python"
>                            "jython")
>                          (if (string-equal py-which-bufname "JPython")
>                              " -" ""))))
[...]

That works.  Thanks.


John



From sjmachin at lexicon.net  Thu Jul 10 18:50:50 2003
From: sjmachin at lexicon.net (John Machin)
Date: 10 Jul 2003 15:50:50 -0700
Subject: LOADING DATA INTO ARRAYS
References: <200307100147.05841.skchim0@engr.uky.edu>        <16140.22733.468173.643296@montanaro.dyndns.org>        <200307100228.50214.skchim0@engr.uky.edu> <mailman.1057776255.28630.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c76ff6fc.0307101450.15ab3d59@posting.google.com>

Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.1057776255.28630.python-list at python.org>...

>     satish> ValueError: invalid literal for float(): 0.00000000000000D+000
> 
> It's been many years since I programmed any Fortran, so I'm no longer sure
> what the 'D' notation stands for (double-precision?).  As a first guess, I'd
> suggest you change the 'D's to 'E's:
> 
>     >>> line.replace('D', 'E').split()
>  ['1.00000000000000', '0.00000000000000E+000', '0.00000000000000E+000']
>     >>> map(float, line.replace('D', 'E').split())
>     [1.0, 0.0, 0.0]

Perhaps we have a version or platform difference here ... 2.2.3 on
win32 works just fine (see below)

C:\junk>python
Python 2.2.3 (#42, May 30 2003, 18:12:08) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on
win32
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> float('1.0d0')
1.0
>>> float('1.0D0')
1.0
>>> float('2.0D3')
2000.0
>>> float('0.00000000000000D+000')
0.0
>>>

Seeing guessing is tolerated (at least in this thread): Python float()
is defined in terms of the now-deprecated string.atof() which (I
guess) is/are implemented by calling C atof() which in K&R 2 is
defined in terms of strtod() which is not defined with any degree of
precision as to what constitutes legal input -- some implementors of C
libraries may well have confused the two separate concepts of valid
*data* input and valid *code* input.

Satish, for amusement: see what float('2.0e3f') gives you [that's a
legal float constant in C]. For practical results, follow Skip's
advice to replace 'D' with 'E'.

Cheers,
John



From claird at lairds.com  Fri Jul 18 20:19:40 2003
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 00:19:40 -0000
Subject: How do I get info on an exception ?
References: <fc07672ed11f5dcad539bcf9bf0d051f@news.1usenet.com> <U2NRa.7475$7O.275@nwrdny01.gnilink.net>
Message-ID: <vhh3kss6ailjf9@corp.supernews.com>

In article <U2NRa.7475$7O.275 at nwrdny01.gnilink.net>,
Raymond Hettinger <python at rcn.com> wrote:
			.
			.
			.
>You could catch it with:
>
>            except socket.herror, inst:
>                  print inst.args
>
>or more broadly with:
>
>             except socket.error, (errno, string_message):
>                   print code, message
>
>
>> More importantly, where is the answer documented that I should
>> have looked?
>
>The list of possible socket exceptions is in the docs for sockets.
>It also describes the (errno, string) return tuple value of inst.args.
			.
			.
			.
True.

But unsatisfying--at least to me.  I'm curious whether anyone
else sees it the same way.

We're talking here about <URL:
http://www.python.org/doc/lib/module-socket.html >, I assume,
which tells us the socket module has three exception constants
(and what they are), and also such details as that it might be
  except socket.error, (errno, string_message)
but that it also might be simply
  except socket.error, string_message

It's a temptation to go rhetorical at this point, and protest
that we would not believe any other API documented if so little
were written about it, but that we expect this poverty for
exceptions.  Rather than promote a general manifesto, though,
I'll just summarize that neither the manual entry, nor the 
references it provides, give definite knowledge about even the
signature of socket exceptions.  A programmer who wants preci-
sion in regard to exceptions must either experiment, or read
implementation sources--and sometimes both.

So, the answer to the question is the subject line is this:
read the manual, then play with a live system to see what
really happens.
-- 

Cameron Laird <Cameron at Lairds.com>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
Personal:  http://phaseit.net/claird/home.html



From theller at python.net  Thu Jul 31 08:26:50 2003
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 14:26:50 +0200
Subject: Misuse of <tab>
References: <3f27f0e3$1@news.broadpark.no> <3f28287e$0$103$8f4e7992@newsreader.goldengate.net>
 <9rehivsavhereijf36nhla96krct4s1fmn@4ax.com>
 <mailman.1059649487.17930.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <u192x4ol.fsf@python.net>

Gerhard H?ring <gh at ghaering.de> writes:

> Christopher Koppler wrote:
>> [tab settings]
>> And, as others have said, DON'T use 5.
>
> I'd still like to hear a reason for this.
>

See PEP 8, Style Guide for Python Code: Consistency.

Thomas



From martin at v.loewis.de  Sun Jul  6 03:07:14 2003
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Sun, 06 Jul 2003 09:07:14 +0200
Subject: PEP idea. ( removing __slots__ )
In-Reply-To: <3f073594$1_2@news1.vip.uk.com>
References: <3f073594$1_2@news1.vip.uk.com>
Message-ID: <be8hr1$8eh$06$1@news.t-online.com>

simon place wrote:


> To do this nicely requires the renaming of  __dict__ to, say, 
> __attribs__ , ( since dict is unnecessarily unspecific, this seem like a 
> small improvement in itself. ) then using the setting of __attribs__ to 
> a non-mutable type (ie  tuple of attribute names)  to indicate the 
> behaviour of __slots__, rendering it unnecessary, this I think is a good 
> simplification.

That does not work. __slots__ must be set at creation time of the class,
not at creation time of the instance. In your approach, it appears that
__attribs__ would be set, say, in __init__.

If you meant that __attribs__ would be set to the tuple of attribute 
names inside the class definition directly, it appears that you have
renamed __slots__ to __attribs__, which is pointless.

Regards,
Martin




From creedy at mitretek.org  Tue Jul 15 10:27:00 2003
From: creedy at mitretek.org (Chris Reedy)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 10:27:00 -0400
Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re=3A_Python_Mystery_Theatre_--_Episode?=
 =?ISO-8859-1?Q?_2=3A__As=ED_Fue?=
In-Reply-To: <VorQa.15236$Kw1.587@nwrdny02.gnilink.net>
References: <VorQa.15236$Kw1.587@nwrdny02.gnilink.net>
Message-ID: <3F140F34.1030401@mitretek.org>

Raymond Hettinger wrote:
> Here are four more mini-mysteries for your amusement
> and edification.
> 
> In this episode, the program output is not shown.
> Your goal is to predict the output and, if anything
> mysterious occurs, then explain what happened
> (again, in blindingly obvious terms).
> 
> There's extra credit for giving a design insight as to
> why things are as they are.
> 
> Try to solve these without looking at the other posts.
> Let me know if you learned something new along the way.
> 
> To challenge the those who thought the last episode
> was too easy, I've included one undocumented wrinkle
> known only to those who have read the code.
> 

I thought this one was much tougher than the Act 1. I ended up doing a 
lot of research on this one. I haven't read the other answers yet, I've 
been holding off until I finished this. (Having read my response, I 
apologize for the length. I don't think I scored so well on "blindingly 
obvious".) Here goes ...

> ACT I -----------------------------------------------
> print '*%*r*' % (10, 'guido')
> print '*%.*f*' % ((42,) * 2)

This one wasn't hard. I've used this feature before. The stars at the 
front and back tend to act as visual confusion. The stars in the middle 
indicate an option to the format that is provided as a parameter.  Thus 
the first one prints the representation (%r) of the string 'guido' as a 
ten character wide field. When I tried it, the only thing I missed was 
that the representation of 'guido' is "'guido'" not "guido". So the 
first one prints out:

*   'guido'*

rather than:

*     guido*

which would have been my first guess.

The second one takes just a little more thought. The result of this is
equivalent to:

print '*%.42f*' % 42

which yields

*42.000000000000000000000000000000000000000000*

That is a fixed point number with 42 digits after the decimal point. 
(Yes, I did copy that from Idle rather than counting zeros.)

Aside: I have to admit that the ((42,) * 2) did confuse me at first. I'm 
so used to doing 2 * (42,) when I want to repeat a sequence that I 
hadn't thought about the reversed form.

Having used this feature before, I have to say that I think the 
documentation for how to do this is quite comprehensible.

> ACT II -----------------------------------------------
> s = '0100'
> print int(s)
> for b in (16, 10, 8, 2, 0, -909, -1000, None):
>     print b, int(s, b)

Boy! This one send me to the documentation, and finally to the code.

According to the documentation the legal values for the parameter b are
b = 0 or 2 <= b <= 36. So the first print yields 100 (the default base 
for a string is 10 if not specified). The next few lines of output are:

16 256
10 100
8 64
2 4
0 64

The only one that deserves an additional comment is the last line. 
According to the documentation, a base of 0 means that the number is 
interpreted as if it appeared in program text, in this case, since the 
string begins with a '0', its interpreted as base 8.

Let's skip -909 for a moment. -1000 raises an exception. None would also 
raise an exception if we ever got there. I also find that one a little 
non-intuitive, more about that later.

For no immediately apparent reason (Raymond's undocumented wrinkle!), 
the next line of the output (after the above) is:

-909 100

The only reason I found that was to try it. After hunting through the 
code (Yes, I have no problem with C. No, I'm not familiar with the 
organization of the Python source.) I eventually (see int_new in 
intobject.c) find out that the int function (actually new for the int 
type) looks like it was defined as:

def int(x, b=-909):
     ...

That is, the default value for b is -909. So, int('0100', -909) has the 
same behavior as int('0100'). This explains the result.

Having read the code, I now understand _all_ about how this function 
works. I understand why there is a default value. For example:

int(100L) yields 100, but there is no documented value for b such that 
int(100L, b) yields anything except a TypeError. However, using b=-909 
is the same as not specifying b. This allows me to write code like:

if type(x) is str:
     b = 16
else:
     b = -909
return int(x, b)

I'm not really sure whether that's better than, for example

if type(x) is str:
     return int(x, 16)
else:
     return int(x)

or not. However, I find the use of the constant -909 is definitely 
"magic". If it was up to me, I would use a default value of b = None, so 
that int(x) and int(x, None) are equivalent. It seems to me that that 
could be documented and would not be subject to misinterpretation.

> ACT III ----------------------------------------------------
> def once(x): return x
> def twice(x): return 2*x
> def thrice(x): return 3*x
> funcs = [once, twice, thrice]
> 
> flim = [lambda x:funcs[0](x), lambda x:funcs[1](x), lambda x:funcs[2](x)]
> flam = [lambda x:f(x) for f in funcs]
> 
> print flim[0](1), flim[1](1), flim[2](1)
> print flam[0](1), flam[1](1), flam[2](1)

This one was ugly. I guessed the right answer but then had to do some 
more research to understand exactly what was going wrong.

The first line prints 1, 2, 3 just like you expect.

First reaction, the second line also prints 1, 2, 3. But, Raymond 
wouldn't have asked the question if it was that easy. So, guessing that 
something funny happens I guessed 3, 3, 3. I tried it. Good guessing.

Now why?

After a bunch of screwing around (including wondering about the details 
of how the interpreter implements lambda expressions). At one point I 
tried the following (in Idle):

for f in flam: print f(1)

And wondered why I got an exception for exceeding the maximum recursion 
limit. What I finally realized was that the definition of flam 
repeatedly binds the variable f to each of the functions in funcs. The 
lambda expression defines a function that calls the function referenced 
by f. At the end of the execution of that statement, f is thrice, so all 
three of the defined lambdas call thrice. That also explains why I hit 
the maximum recursion limit.

At this point I felt like I had egg on my face. I've been burned by this 
one in the past, and I spent a while figuring it out then. The fix is easy:

flam = [lambda x, fn=f: fn(x) for f in funcs]

which creates a new local binding which captures the correct value at 
each iteration. This is the kind of problem which makes me wonder 
whether we ought to re-think about binding of variables for loops.

> ACT IV ----------------------------------------------------
> import os
> os.environ['one'] = 'Now there are'
> os.putenv('two', 'three')
> print os.getenv('one'), os.getenv('two')

Obviously, this one is trying to trick you into thinking it will print 
'Now there are three'. I ended up trying it and getting 'Now there are 
None'. Then I went back and read the documentation. What I got confused 
about was that os.putenv updates the external environment without 
changing the contents of os.environ. Updating os.environ will change the 
external environment as a side effect. I had read about this before but 
had gotten the two behaviors reversed in my head.

Now, why is it this way? It makes sense that you may have a use case for 
  changing the external environment without changing the contents of 
os.environ and so need a mechanism for doing so. However, on reflection, 
I'm not sure whether I think the implemented mechanism is 
counter-intuitive or not.




From pinard at iro.umontreal.ca  Thu Jul 17 16:05:25 2003
From: pinard at iro.umontreal.ca (=?iso-8859-1?q?Fran=E7ois_Pinard?=)
Date: 17 Jul 2003 16:05:25 -0400
Subject: Accessing and updating global variables among several modules
In-Reply-To: <a12f6af8.0307170428.5648ffcc@posting.google.com>
References: <a12f6af8.0307111938.4d7a9851@posting.google.com>
	<bepqje$8cm$0@216.39.172.122>
	<a12f6af8.0307170428.5648ffcc@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <oqu19k9awq.fsf@titan.progiciels-bpi.ca>

[Fuming Wang]

> The problem is caused by Python creating two copies of the module that is
> passed to the interpreter.

We were recently bitten by a variation on this problem.

A co-worker and I were writing one module each for a single project, both
modules were to derive classes from a common base class from the same module
`listes'.  Everything was to be installed in a single package `Lc'.

In his module, he wrote:

    from Lc import listes

while in my module I wrote:

    import listes

In fact, both `import' worked, yet `listes' was not the same object for each
of our viewpoints, and so, our classes did not have a common base.  Object
initialisation was modifying a supposedly common registry of created
objects, kept as a class variable in the base, so there was a problem.

P.S. - Or something similar, I'm not sure I remember correctly.  So many
things happen between a particular day and the next one! :-)

-- 
Fran?ois Pinard   http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/~pinard




From andy at wild-flower.co.uk  Wed Jul  9 19:01:02 2003
From: andy at wild-flower.co.uk (Andy Jewell)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 00:01:02 +0100
Subject: QUESTION
In-Reply-To: <4e.1efa9c3f.2c3d7c25@aol.com>
References: <4e.1efa9c3f.2c3d7c25@aol.com>
Message-ID: <200307100001.02458.andy@wild-flower.co.uk>

On Wednesday 09 Jul 2003 3:09 pm, Matt5883 at aol.com wrote:
         
Let me just see... ahhhem.  Wait, no, sorry I just *can't* remember your IP 
address (or in fact if you've even got one) so I can't look at your 
hard-drive! ;-))

Seriously though, you need to rephrase your question a bit... but I'll give it 
a go anyway...

> What is python 2.1.1?
1) Python is a (rather good) programming language.  It can be used to write 
applications; any applications written in it also require the python system 
to be installed (or otherwise present) on your system.

>How did it get on my computer?
2) It got on your computer because it was installed by someone - prabably as 
part of an application you installed.

>Is it a necessary program?
3) Only if one of your cherished applications uses it ;-p

> Can I safely delete it/remove it?
4) You can safely remove it if you don't want the application that needs it. 

> If so how? 
5) Just rename the directory where you found it, and then test all the 
applications you want to keep.  If one of them falls over in a heap, you'll 
know that Python was part of it ;-) and you can then rename it back to the 
original name.  If nothing breaks, you can then safely delete it! (I'd wait a 
while, though).

> I do not recall  downloading it.
7) Can't help you with that one. :-(

>Does it come bundled with some other program? Maybe one of
> my kids did it.  
8) Maybe, maybe; maybe not...

>I do not see enough information on your site to make these
> determinations. 
9) I think you probably mean that there's way too much information on the 
site, and you think it'd take you an absolute age to figure out how to make 
these 'determinations' :-)

>I have a Compaq 5184 with OEM Win 98 installed...I do not
> ever recall seeing "python" in the programs. 
10) That's (almost) irrelevant, but Python is not part of Windows (98 or any 
other).

>I have been having alot of problems with my computer lately and I am removing 
unecessary "junk"
11) You'll be wanting to download Linux, then, I guess :-p I recommend 
Mandrake Linux, but www.linux.org has a huge list of other flavours.

> Thanks,
> Matt
Don't take offense; your post *did* have a slightly, er, narky tone though!  
Anyway, I'm off to bed as the Misses is due to give birth R.S.N and we need 
rest!

hope that helps
-andyj




From peter at engcorp.com  Wed Jul  9 05:50:15 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 05:50:15 -0400
Subject: format discs.
References: <pan.2003.07.09.08.22.10.853337.9435@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <3F0BE557.43E0D287@engcorp.com>

Flanagan wrote:
> 
> somebody can say to me whereupon I modulate of python I can format
> discs.

What disks?  What operating system?  Why?  (Usually one would
be happy to let the user handle these details using OS facilities.
Why bother integrating such a feature into your program?)

-Peter



From jwhitlark at attbi.com  Thu Jul 24 23:24:25 2003
From: jwhitlark at attbi.com (Jason Whitlark)
Date: 24 Jul 2003 20:24:25 -0700
Subject: Can't Close Word Instance without Save Changes Dlg Box
References: <mailman.1058804373.21700.python-list@python.org> <bfh8d3$3h$1@reader1.tiscali.nl>
Message-ID: <d3464e8f.0307241924.1bb36372@posting.google.com>

"GerritM" <gmuller at worldonline.nl> wrote in message news:<bfh8d3$3h$1 at reader1.tiscali.nl>...
> <PoulsenL at capanalysis.com> schreef in bericht
> news:mailman.1058804373.21700.python-list at python.org...
> > I am using COM to manipulate word attachments to emails.  Once I use them
>  I
> > am not concerned with saving the results.  I use the following line:
> >
> > myWord.ActiveDocument.Close(wc.wdDoNotSaveChanges)
> >
> > This closes the document fine but only after I click no on the resulting
> > "Save Changes" dialog box.  Am I missing something really simple?  I can
> > send preceding lines if needed.
> >
> > Thanks in advance,
> >
> > Loren Poulsen
> >
> I have never tried this in Word. However I had the same kind of problem in
> Visio, which could be solved by setting the document status to saved,
> something like:
> myWord.ActiveDocument.saved = 1
> 
> regards Gerrit


I think "saved" needs to be capitalized 

myWord.ActiveDocument.Saved = True

-Jason



From stacom at stacom-software.de  Fri Jul 25 09:20:51 2003
From: stacom at stacom-software.de (Alexander Eisenhuth)
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 15:20:51 +0200
Subject: data conversion question (binary string to 'real string')
In-Reply-To: <R2aUa.4$gZ.55@news.oracle.com>
References: <bfr9h7$i62j8$1@ID-155280.news.uni-berlin.de> <R2aUa.4$gZ.55@news.oracle.com>
Message-ID: <3F212EB3.7020600@stacom-software.de>

Manish Jethani wrote:
> Alexander Eisenhuth wrote:
> 
> 
>>maby I don't see the forest because of all that trees, but :
> 
> 
> Maybe I don't understand your question...
> 
> 
>>from struct import *
>>
>>
>># how can I convert
>>f = float(0.5)
>>
>># with
>>bin_str =  pack('!f', 0.5)
>>
>># now bin_str is '?\x00\x00\x00'
>>
>>
>># to "3F000000" ?????
> 
> 
> ???????????????
> What is your question?
> 
> -Manish
> 
Sorry ...

This two lines converts 0.5 to a string in binary 
representation

 >>>from struct import *
 >>>bin_str =  pack('!f', 0.5)

now bin_str is '?\x00\x00\x00', wich is the representation 
of 0.5 in the memory. I need now to convert this binary 
string to "3F000000", where '3F' is the hex value of the '?' 
in ascii - table.

Any ideas ??

Thaks
Alexander




From andreas.kuntzagk at mdc-berlin.de  Wed Jul  2 10:40:42 2003
From: andreas.kuntzagk at mdc-berlin.de (Andreas Kuntzagk)
Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 16:40:42 +0200
Subject: undo tab
References: <3F02E7D5.4060401@gmx.net> <bduq2n$114jav$1@ID-67890.news.dfncis.de> <3F02ECF0.105@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <bduqul$114aer$1@fu-berlin.de>

Hi,

> Maybe you can just give me a general hint how you do it and which editor 
> you use. That would probably also help.

I use Xemacs,  and do it with "Ctrl-c <"
I don't know about Emacs on Windows, but the "GNU Emacs FAQ For Windows"
can probably help you with this:

http://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/windows/ntemacs.html

HTH,
Andreas



From dave at boost-consulting.com  Sun Jul 13 21:02:49 2003
From: dave at boost-consulting.com (David Abrahams)
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 21:02:49 -0400
Subject: anything like C++ references?
References: <13t0hvsb7idh0g6ac3upe5k0qd6flc17ah@4ax.com> <pan.2003.07.13.10.58.11.376531@127.0.0.1>
 <3F11C42F.5030406@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <usmp9q5s6.fsf@boost-consulting.com>

Erik Max Francis <max at alcyone.com> writes:

> This is completely incorrect.  On the contrary, builtin types are
> handled exactly uniformly in Python.  The only difference here is that
> the builtin types that you've listed, along with some others, are
> immutable, so you cannot change them if you have a reference to them.

All you guys must be forgetting:

   >>> a = [1]
   >>> b = a
   >>> a += b
   >>> assert id(a) == id(b)
   >>> a = 1
   >>> b = a
   >>> a += b
   >>> assert id(a) == id(b)
   Traceback...

-- 
Dave Abrahams
Boost Consulting
www.boost-consulting.com



From max at alcyone.com  Tue Jul  8 18:46:39 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 15:46:39 -0700
Subject: anything new on the ternary operator?
References: <y20Oa.11236$Hb.197832@news4.e.nsc.no> <OxAOa.4802$os2.72457@news2.e.nsc.no>
Message-ID: <3F0B49CF.F58F1D35@alcyone.com>

Tor wrote:

> (if C: x else: z)
> 
> Was this the winning syntax?

Best way to answer this is to just read PEP 308:

	http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0308.html

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ To be adult is to be alone.
\__/  Jean Rostand



From CousinStanley at hotmail.com  Sun Jul  6 17:56:40 2003
From: CousinStanley at hotmail.com (Cousin Stanley)
Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2003 14:56:40 -0700
Subject: Using Loops to track user input
References: <bea0p6$17f$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <bea5r4$2nnlh$1@ID-130333.news.dfncis.de>

hokiegal ...

Another way if you also wish to save the input numbers ...

nLoops    = 10

list_nums = []

for i in range( nLoops ) :

    this_num = int( raw_input( 'Enter an Integer :  ' ) )

    list_nums.append( this_num )

total = reduce( int.__add__ , list_nums )

print
print list_nums
print
print total

-- 
Cousin Stanley
Human Being
Phoenix, Arizona





From http  Mon Jul 21 14:57:47 2003
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 21 Jul 2003 11:57:47 -0700
Subject: Possible use of Python for a voting machine demo project --your feedback requested
References: <P9DSa.111436$Io.9552373@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <mailman.1058740232.22829.python-list@python.org> <GyGSa.111785$Io.9574045@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <7xptk3yafo.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

"Alan Dechert" <adechert at earthlink.net> writes:
> We'll see.  The touch screen we intend to use works well with a stylus.  So
> if we get too many mistakes using fingers, we may just have people using a
> stylus exclusively.

Try to avoid that.  Use a real big screen if needed (Wacom makes some
nice ones).

> I'll take this as a prediction, not necessarily correct, however.  Our team
> includes some people with extensive experience with voting machine
> evaluation -- they think it will work.  But again, we won't know for sure
> until we try.  But beyond that, most voting machine PCs we are proposing to
> use will be mouse driven.  So even if it proves to be too dense for a stylus
> (very unlikely, imo) it is certainly not too dense for a mouse. Virtually
> all of the testers using the web based version will be using a mouse.

I think a production system shouldn't use mice.

> On the other hand, a lot of people really really like the touch screens.  We
> can't make them all mouse driven since a percentage of the voters will have
> a big problem with that.  But there is no reason to give up on mouse driven
> systems just because some people can't use them.  Mice are very cheap and
> most people are used to them. 

What do you mean by "most people are used to them"?  Do you really
mean "most computer users are used to them"?  I remember hearing that
most (i.e. more than half) of the people in the world have never even
made a phone call, much less used a computer.  How that maps onto US
voters, I don't know.

I hope you will do user testing with people from all backgrounds and
social strata.  Go to some senior citizen centers; get a few street
people ("will work for food") to try out the system; etc.

> > Anyway, I wish you luck -- we certainly need open voting systems.  The
> > current closed systems scare me.
> >
> I appreciate your taking the time to write.

Do you talk anywhere about auditibility, i.e. how does anyone verify
that your published source code is the same code actually running on
the machines?



From drs at ecp.cc  Sat Jul 12 15:09:26 2003
From: drs at ecp.cc (drs)
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 19:09:26 GMT
Subject: The "intellectual property" misnomer
References: <mailman.1057978117.8939.python-list@python.org> <slrnbgv1c7.q1.bignose-hates-spam@rose.localdomain.fake> <mailman.1058029899.16454.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <G1ZPa.16776$BM.5336276@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com>

"Cliff Wells" <clifford.wells at comcast.net> wrote in message
news:mailman.1058029899.16454.python-list at python.org...
> On Fri, 2003-07-11 at 20:30, Ben Finney wrote:
> > On Fri, 11 Jul 2003 22:47:21 -0400, Tim Peters wrote:
> > > Ben Finney wrote:
> > >> Guido van Rossum wrote:
> > >> > The PSF holds the intellectual property rights for Python
> > >> Ugh.  Please don't propagate this ridiculous, meaningless term.
> > >
> > > Guido isn't writing a treatise on the law, he's briefly explaining
> > > (part of) what the PSF does.
> >
> > The term he used doesn't explain anything, and only confuses.

* * *

> > People may have an assumption about what is meant by the term, but they
> > are almost certainly wrong, since the fields of law that are sometimes
> > lumped together by that term have almost nothing in common.

As the holder of a degree in the law and as a programmer, I would like to
diverge from the rest of this argument by saying that this is flatly wrong.
Patent, copyright, trademark, and trade secret have much in common which
causes them to be lumped into one convenient category.  Perhaps the most
important thing is that they are all created from intellectual endeavors.
They are the things which are not plots of land or buildings, i.e. they are
the things which are not what lawyers call "real property."  Whether one
thinks there should be property rights in intellectual creation is one
thing, but suggesting that simply because there are differences in those
rights or in how they are granted implies that there are not similarities in
the law which governs or in how it is interpreted is logically incorrect.

> No, they are most certainly not wrong.  Most people using Python have
> probably at least perused the license.  Having done so, I doubt that
> they need to have it spelled out every time it is mentioned.
>
> > There is nothing useful indicated by the term "intellectual property
> > rights", because it presumes there is some commonality between fields of
> > law that deal with different intellectual concepts, impose different
> > restrictions, and presume different rights.
>
> That's like saying the word "food" is useless because there's nothing in
> common between a sandwich and a bowl of rice.

Or more to the point, it is like the OP's use of the word lawyer.  As
someone who has primarily studied IP, Antitrust and Constitutional Law, I
don't want to be lumped into the same category with someone who does
transactional work or who files divorce papers, yet the term lawyer does
just this.  One should be careful about chastising other for using terms
which are too general as that is the nature of spoken language.  Words are
imprecise, and category words like "Intellectual Property" or "lawyer" or
"food" are not tuples which are iterated over in conversation.

* * *

> > > I don't think pedantic verbosity makes it any clearer, but may mislead
> > > due to omission.
> >
> > And using a term that attempts to blanket wildly different legal rights
> > is *not* misleading due to omission?

No, this is not how this works.  It is very common in the law to make a list
or use a term which is illustrative. The Latin is "Noscitur a sociis" which
means to interpret the general to be similar to specifics in a series.  So,
we all know what the series is here, and it is, as mentioned by others,
clearer to not list all of the specifics as this will cause people to search
for omissions -- "Expressio unius" is the term there.

-drs

IGWOS (it goes without saying), IANALATINLA (i am not a lawyer and this is
not legal advice).





From karl_lopes at hotmail.com  Sun Jul 13 04:37:38 2003
From: karl_lopes at hotmail.com (Karl Lopes)
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 08:37:38 GMT
Subject: PythonCard newbie question
Message-ID: <Xns93B71174A7F15karllopeshotmailcom@24.69.255.211>

Hello All,
 I downloaded and installed PythonCard. When I try to run the minimal app 
in samples 
I get the following errors: module' object has no attribute 'Background'.
                          : module' object has no attribute '__version__'
Any ideas what I am missing here.
Thanks
Karl.



From psycho_78 at libero.libero.it  Thu Jul 31 10:43:58 2003
From: psycho_78 at libero.libero.it (Simone Finotti)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 16:43:58 +0200
Subject: [Newbie] FAQ?
References: <bgb4a9$cl0$1@news.newsland.it> <nv8iivsofvr76bvgnffj45q452ld5smk6d@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <bgb9tr$97j$1@news.newsland.it>

Christopher Koppler ha scritto:

> On Thu, 31 Jul 2003 15:08:07 +0200, psycho_78 at libero.libero.it (Simone
> Finotti) wrote:

> >hi all,
> >is there a FAQ for this NG?
> >

> http://www.faqs.org/faqs/by-newsgroup/comp/comp.lang.python.html

> Have you heard of Google?

sure I did! Pardon... 


-- 

questo articolo e` stato inviato via web dal servizio gratuito 
http://www.newsland.it/news segnala gli abusi ad abuse at newsland.it





From mis6 at pitt.edu  Thu Jul  3 16:46:46 2003
From: mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato)
Date: 3 Jul 2003 13:46:46 -0700
Subject: Overriding list.__new__
Message-ID: <2259b0e2.0307031246.6054693d@posting.google.com>

Let me show first how does it work for tuples:

>>> class MyTuple(tuple):
...     def __new__(cls,strng): # implicit conversion string of ints => tuple
...         return super(MyTuple,cls).__new__(cls,map(int,strng.split()))
>>> MyTuple('1 2')
(1, 2)

No wonder here, everything is fine. However, if I do the same for
lists I get the following:

>>> class MyList(list):
...     def __new__(cls,strng): #implicit conversion string of ints => tuple
...         return super(MyList,cls).__new__(cls,map(int,strng.split()))
>>> MyList('1 2')
['1', ' ', '2']

The same is true for

>>> class MyList(list):
...     def __new__(cls,strng):
...         return list.__new__(cls,map(int,strng.split()))
>>> MyList('1 2')
['1', ' ', '2']

therefore it is not a problem of super.
The 'map' expression does not seem to be executed or, if its executed, 
it has no effect at all. If I replace 'map' with anything, still I have 
the same result:

>>> class MyList(list):
...     def __new__(cls,strng):
...         return list.__new__(cls,map(int,[]) # !notice: empty list here!
>>> MyList('1 2')
['1', ' ', '2']

In other words I always get the result of

>>> list('1 2')
['1', ' ', '2']

and it seems impossible to override list.__new__.

I am very puzzled about that; any suggestions?

                 Michele



From syver at inout.no  Tue Jul  1 05:56:21 2003
From: syver at inout.no (Syver Enstad)
Date: 01 Jul 2003 11:56:21 +0200
Subject: Want to create an ActiveX object from a Python class
References: <34ac6a99.0306300955.4202abb5@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <usmpqo9iy.fsf@inout.no>

shi at imaging.robarts.ca (Shi Sherebrin) writes:

> A colleague wants some functionality that I've built in a Python class
> available to 'drop' into her Visual C++ project.  Some time ago she
> gave up on trying to use 'regular' COM servers, since ActiveX controls
> integrate so much more easily.  So if I can't wrap the Python class
> into an ActiveX object, I'll have to port it.
> 
> I've been searching through the pythoncom and ctypes documentation and
> samples, and can't seem to find any examples of making an ActiveX
> object.  The pythoncom documentation claims that ActiveX is the same
> as COM, but there seems to need to be more added to a COM server to
> make it an ActiveX object, and I don't know nearly enough to know how
> to do this.
> 
> Is anyone else interested in doing this, and has anyone managed to do
> so?

If I am not mistaken, the only thing your colleague needs is a type
library for the python com object. In the cases I've experienced this
is what makes MS IDE's tick when it comes to COM objects.
 



From andersjm at dancontrol.dk  Tue Jul 29 03:51:44 2003
From: andersjm at dancontrol.dk (Anders J. Munch)
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 09:51:44 +0200
Subject: Unfortunate exception on dict item assignment (and why aren't slices hashable?)
References: <mailman.1058752171.10243.python-list@python.org> <slrnbhmjh2.si4.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local> <mailman.1058757391.658.python-list@python.org> <bg4lud$auo$1@panix3.panix.com>
Message-ID: <3f2627c7$0$76067$edfadb0f@dread11.news.tele.dk>

"Aahz" <aahz at pythoncraft.com> wrote:
> Jeff Epler  <jepler at unpythonic.net> wrote:
> >
> >I don't see what's problematic about letting slices be hashable: 
> [...]
>Hashing them as
> >    hash((s.start,s.stop,s.step))
> >might be a reasonable definition.
> 
> Makes sense to me.  Feel free to submit a patch to SF.  ;-)

I'd rather he didn't.  I prefer Python to be able to catch the bug of
attempting to use a dict as were it a list.  For the rare case where
using a slice key was intentional, converting to tuple form is easy
enough.

I can see that it's good for consistency to allow hashing of slices.
However it's bad for consistency that where alist[slice] returns a
subsequence, adict[slice] would return a single element.

- Anders





From jepler at unpythonic.net  Mon Jul 28 16:31:06 2003
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 15:31:06 -0500
Subject: Fastest way to count your iterations?
In-Reply-To: <a9e86706.0307281041.395e3bc8@posting.google.com>
References: <a9e86706.0307281041.395e3bc8@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20030728203105.GE14508@unpythonic.net>

You could use generator functions as one way to implement a spinner.

    from __future__ import generators
    import sys, time

    # I think this may be called "cycle" in 2.3's itertools
    def spinner_next(chars):
        while 1:
            for c in chars: yield c

    def spinner(interval=100, chars="/-\\||", pos=0):
        ci = spinner_next(chars)
        while 1:
            # for interval iterations, don't advance spinner
            for i in range(interval): yield None
            # OK, now advance spinner
            # and print it in a low-tech fashion
            sys.stdout.write(ci.next()+"\n"); sys.stdout.flush()

    def calculate():
        j = 0
        s = spinner(10)
        for i in range(1000):
            time.sleep(.01)
            j = j + i
            s.next() # advance spinner 1 iteration
        print j
    calculate()

Jeff




From max at cNOvSisiPonAtecMh.com  Thu Jul  3 09:50:34 2003
From: max at cNOvSisiPonAtecMh.com (Max Khesin)
Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 13:50:34 GMT
Subject: A story about Python... sort of
References: <3f03f430$0$97222$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
Message-ID: <KwWMa.3332$Aw.3042@twister.nyc.rr.com>

import flame.*
import sorry.*
Ok, with all my respect to python, the stuff about C++ is a bunch of hooey.
Compilation time is the problem? Give me a break.
1) separate compilation?
2) precompiled headers?
3) tools that allow cluster compilation?
4) ever read 'large-scale c++ development' by Lacos? a must for large c++
project. letter-envelope idiom to help compilation...etc.
Anyway, if you are coding so fast that compilation time becomes a serious
problem you are either
a) the smartest and fastest programmer on earth
b) are not thinking enough

c++ is great when execution speed and memory efficiency is a must. It is
hard to learn, but there are great benefits, and do you really want halfwits
(who can't learn it) involved on your project? It also (by design) makes
previous C programmers productive very fast. Empirically - just look at all
the C++ projects on SF!

max.


--
========================================
Max Khesin, software developer -
max at cNvOiSsPiAoMntech.com
[check out our image compression software at www.cvisiontech.com, JBIG2-PDF
compression @
www.cvisiontech.com/cvistapdf.html]


"Max M" <maxm at mxm.dk> wrote in message
news:3f03f430$0$97222$edfadb0f at dread12.news.tele.dk...
> There is a story today on Slashdot
>
>
> Open Source Project Management Lessons
> ======================================
>
http://developers.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=03/07/02/1817220&mode=flat&tid
=185
>
> "Paul Baranowski takes a moment to reflect on Open Source Project
> Management in his blog. His reflections are based on the first two years
> of the Peek-a-booty project." Interesting comments on media coverage,
> choice of programming language, when to release a project, and more.
>
>
> In that article Paul Baranowski has a list of lessons. One being
>
> Engineering Lessons
> -------------------
>     1. C/C++ is no longer a viable development language
>
>
> He doesn't really say in the article what language should be used
> instead. But there is a link to another page:
>
> Which Language Do You Recommend?
> ================================
> http://peek-a-booty.org/Docs/WhichLanguageDoYouRecommend.htm
>
>
> And guess which language it is?
>
>
> regards Max M
>





From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Jul 17 09:20:25 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 09:20:25 -0400
Subject: Python Asynchronous Services
References: <dKvRa.271$fF.8397@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au>
Message-ID: <3F16A299.3DC0D93C@engcorp.com>

Graeme Matthew wrote:
> 
> while 1:
>     data = recv(1024)
>     if not data: break
> 
> surely in a thread this will block all other threads until all data is
> recieved. 

Why "surely"?  It's actually not the case.  A blocking call such as to
socket.recv() means that the *calling* thread is blocked until the call
returns, not that other threads are blocked.  In fact, the other threads
will immediately be free to run since the calling thread will release
the Global Interpreter Lock before it blocks in the OS socket call.

> I have also been told that one cannot rely on this mechanism as
> the socket might end up in a continious loop, i.e you need to send a header
> included in the data that states the length (bytes) that is been sent, or
> you need some terminator, what happens if the terminator is within the
> requests data and not at the end ?

Now you're getting into a higher level.  You certainly *can* "rely" on
sockets, or receiving data in chunks like the above, but it's certainly
not the easiest way to approach things at this point.  You know about
asyncore, and it would work, and Moshe has mentioned Twisted (and I have
to agree that looking there is your best bet); no point reinventing the
wheel, and even if you're trying to learn, you'll probably learn a lot
by examining the source to either of those packages.

> please any help or examples as I have now been on this for 2 days without
> any luck. I have looked at asyncore and asynchat, problem is once the server
> socket input is completed then their will be an area that is CPU bound where
> it will need to call the model, database etc and produce the html request,
> this means that control will only be handed back to IO operations when this
> is finished, effectively blocking all other requests  ....

Knowing about how to use a Queue to communicate with a pool of threads, or
a single worker thread, for CPU bound requests, is a good skill...  

> I suppose another question is can python handle large files and requests at
> the same time or is one better off simply forking the process even though
> its costly ?

Python is quite capable of this... and forking is definitely not required.
On the other hand, you're better off in general not worrying about performance
issues until you've figured out how to make something work properly.  Forking
is not the best approach, but mainly because of its relative complexity, not
because of "cost".

-Peter



From stephane.bidoul at softwareag.com  Mon Jul 28 05:53:42 2003
From: stephane.bidoul at softwareag.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?St=E9phane_Bidoul?=)
Date: 28 Jul 2003 02:53:42 -0700
Subject: datetime1 - datetime0, same tzinfo, different dst
References: <mailman.1059320081.24844.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <82a334e5.0307280153.290d7c97@posting.google.com>

"Tim Peters" <tim.one at comcast.net> wrote in message news:<mailman.1059320081.24844.python-list at python.org>...
> [...]
> > Is that the designed behaviour?
> 
> Yes.  You can read Guido's thinking here:
> 
>     http://www.zope.org/Members/fdrake/DateTimeWiki/NaiveTime
> 
> and here:
> 
>     http://www.zope.org/Members/fdrake/DateTimeWiki/TimeZoneInfo
> 
> and at other less relevant pages in that Wiki.
> 
> [...]

Okay, thanks for the pointers. 
I really didn't expect a design oversight from you ;-)
And long live UTC.

-sbi



From khalid.sheikh at silvaco.com  Fri Jul 18 12:38:01 2003
From: khalid.sheikh at silvaco.com (Khalid Sheikh)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 09:38:01 -0700
Subject: How do I convert &$self.text(dbcol[docdb].pretty_name);  into something meaningful in python
Message-ID: <PDECKCFLILIOFDMCOOMNAELECCAA.khalid.sheikh@silvaco.com>

Hi,

I have been tasked to Integrate Inktomi Search (now Verity of course) 
with our website. I am fairly new to Python. The way the search 
engine is setup is that it has embedded python in a html document. 
After looking at the html code for a day or so, I was able to pin 
point the place where I need to make a change but I am having a hard 
time.

I am assuming

&$self.text(dbcol[docdb].pretty_name); 

prints something in HTML but I am trying to figure out it's equivalent 
in Python. I am assuming this is a string and I need to check it's 
value against another string say 'XXY' if it is equal then go ahead 
and print that value otherwise skip to the next item in the 
list/array.


This is what I had before and it worked

<!--$
first = 1
for docdb in docdbs:
    if not dbcol.has_key(docdb): continue
    if first: first = 0; --> <!--$
    else: -->, <!--$
    -->Test< &$self.text(dbcol[docdb].pretty_name); >Test<!--$
if not first: -->

when run this prints 

Test< XXY >Test, Test< ABCD >Test 

I want it to print only when the string is equal to XXY. otherwise 
skip to the next string. This is the edited code that I have so far.


<!--$
first = 1
for docdb in docdbs:
    if not dbcol.has_key(docdb): continue
    if first: first = 0; --> <!--$
    else: -->, <!--$
            # my code 
	    if dbcol[docdb] == <spider.Collection 'pc'> --> <!--$
            # end of my code
	    -->Test< &$self.text(dbcol[docdb].pretty_name); >Test<!--$
if not first: -->


I get the following error when I run the program. 

exceptions.SyntaxError: invalid syntax (line 86)
  Line 86
    if dbcol[docdb] == <spider.Collection 'pc'> wlines.append(u' ');

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Khalid J. Sheikh
Software Engineer
Silvaco International
http://www.silvaco.com
(408) 654-4352




From skip at pobox.com  Thu Jul 10 09:58:19 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 08:58:19 -0500
Subject: LOADING DATA INTO ARRAYS
In-Reply-To: <3f0d55db@shknews01>
References: <mailman.1057772594.19921.python-list@python.org>
        <3f0d55db@shknews01>
Message-ID: <16141.28923.425194.99087@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    Jiri> Because if the line is '123   456 789', then line.split() is
    Jiri> ['123', '', '', '456', '789']

Nope:

    % python
    Python 2.2.3 (#1, Jun 21 2003, 08:08:22) 
    [GCC 3.0.1] on linux2
    Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
    >>> line = '123   456 789'
    >>> line.split()
    ['123', '456', '789']
    >>> line.split(" ")
    ['123', '', '', '456', '789']

line.split() is not line.split(" ").

Skip




From tcronj at ananzi.co.za  Sun Jul 20 05:25:06 2003
From: tcronj at ananzi.co.za (Tertius)
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 11:25:06 +0200
Subject: tk prerequisite
In-Reply-To: <9a410299.0307191718.5dd25502@posting.google.com>
References: <3f0fffc0$0$235@hades.is.co.za> <9a410299.0307191718.5dd25502@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3f1a5f7a$0$228@hades.is.co.za>

klappnase wrote:
> Tertius <tcronj at ananzi.co.za> wrote in message news:<3f0fffc0$0$235 at hades.is.co.za>...
> 
>>Installing tkinter 2.2.3 on RH9 the following message displayed
>>
>>
>>[root at host 223]# rpm -i tkinter-2.2.3-26.i386.rpm
>>warning: tkinter-2.2.3-26.i386.rpm: V3 DSA signature: NOKEY, key ID fd71b297
>>error: Failed dependencies:
>>         libtcl8.3.so is needed by tkinter-2.2.3-26
>>         libtix8.1.8.3.so is needed by tkinter-2.2.3-26
>>         libtk8.3.so is needed by tkinter-2.2.3-26
>>
>>
>>Question:
>>
>>Must it be 8.3 or will 8.4 also do ?
>>
>>TIA
>>Tertius
> 
> You definitely need 8.3 (however these should be the defaults in RH9 if I
> remember correctly, have you upgraded manually?).
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Michael
I had to install the kernel source to get tcl.
Done that now.
Thanks




From hannibalkannibal at yahoo.no  Sat Jul 19 13:05:27 2003
From: hannibalkannibal at yahoo.no (Eirik)
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 19:05:27 +0200
Subject: Executing a program
Message-ID: <FTeSa.7289$os2.110498@news2.e.nsc.no>

Greetings!

How can I run a program from within Python?

I have tried the exec* family of functions, but I get these strange 
errors, like this:

  Exception in Tkinter callback
  Traceback (most recent call last):
    File "/usr/lib/python2.2/lib-tk/Tkinter.py", line 1300, in __call__
      return apply(self.func, args)
    File "./PPP", line 9, in run_app
      os.execvp("home/eirik/ppp-skript", argument)
    File "/usr/lib/python2.2/os.py", line 298, in execvp
      _execvpe(file, args)
    File "/usr/lib/python2.2/os.py", line 324, in _execvpe
      apply(func, (file,) + argrest)
  OSError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory




From tchur at optushome.com.au  Thu Jul 10 17:42:21 2003
From: tchur at optushome.com.au (Tim Churches)
Date: 11 Jul 2003 07:42:21 +1000
Subject: Business model for Open Source - advice wanted
In-Reply-To: <246a4e07.0307100613.fc2fc50@posting.google.com>
References: <246a4e07.0307100613.fc2fc50@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1057873340.1204.40.camel@emilio>

On Fri, 2003-07-11 at 00:13, Frank Millman wrote:
> I am busy developing an accounting package, using Python and wxPython,
> together with PostgreSQL on a Unix platform or SQL Server on a Windows
> platform.

Excellent choice of tools - identical to those used by the GnuMed
project (except for MS SQL Server - but note that PostgreSQL 7.4,
expected to be production quality soon, will run natively under
Windows). The common infrastructure raises the possibility of
integrating your package with GnuMed at some time in the future - at the
very least, GPs (family physicians) and others who adopt GnuMed will be
able to install your package without any extra work at all - and every
doctor needs an accounting package...

-- 

Tim C

PGP/GnuPG Key 1024D/EAF993D0 available from keyservers everywhere
or at http://members.optushome.com.au/tchur/pubkey.asc
Key fingerprint = 8C22 BF76 33BA B3B5 1D5B  EB37 7891 46A9 EAF9 93D0


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From skip at pobox.com  Tue Jul  1 12:51:56 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 11:51:56 -0500
Subject: Python hosting?
In-Reply-To: <3F017FEF.D499AA5B@hotmail.com>
References: <bdruli$10i9il$1@ID-174077.news.dfncis.de>
        <3F017FEF.D499AA5B@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <16129.48172.157646.890054@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    >> Can anybody recommend a good hosting package
    >> for Python? Must be cheap, that is max. $5 per month.

    Alan> Check out the Python Hosting Wiki, which is the most authoritative
    Alan> list I've come across.

    Alan> http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/moinmoin/PythonHosting

And if you find a solution not listed, feel free to add it.  It is a Wiki,
after all.

Skip




From gh at ghaering.de  Thu Jul 10 17:54:47 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 23:54:47 +0200
Subject: Business model for Open Source - advice wanted
In-Reply-To: <1057873340.1204.40.camel@emilio>
References: <246a4e07.0307100613.fc2fc50@posting.google.com>
	<1057873340.1204.40.camel@emilio>
Message-ID: <3F0DE0A7.20407@ghaering.de>

Tim Churches wrote:
> On Fri, 2003-07-11 at 00:13, Frank Millman wrote:
> 
>>I am busy developing an accounting package, using Python and wxPython,
>>together with PostgreSQL on a Unix platform or SQL Server on a Windows
>>platform.
> 
> Excellent choice of tools - identical to those used by the GnuMed
> project (except for MS SQL Server - but note that PostgreSQL 7.4,
> expected to be production quality soon, will run natively under
> Windows). [...]

Unlikely. This is most likely to get postponed to later (version 7.5). 
PITR also didn't made it for 7.4.

Apart from this nitpick I agree that the choice of tools is excellent. 
They're my preferred ones as well.

FWIW building a Pg/Cygwin installer shouldn't be too much effort, 
either. Basically just provide a trimmed down Cygwin.

Native win32 PostgreSQL versions are also available from third parties ...

-- Gerhard




From andrew-pythonlist at puzzling.org  Mon Jul 28 20:18:08 2003
From: andrew-pythonlist at puzzling.org (Andrew Bennetts)
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 10:18:08 +1000
Subject: Any open source utilities built on top of PyUnit?
In-Reply-To: <f9290115.0307280803.50375227@posting.google.com>
References: <f9290115.0307280803.50375227@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20030729001808.GF23610@frobozz>

On Mon, Jul 28, 2003 at 09:03:15AM -0700, J. Michael Hammond wrote:
[...]
> I've gone through the PyUnit documentation the decision comes down to
> this:  are there any utilities out there, built on top of PyUnit, that
> are gaining traction?  Say is there some kind of GUI package that
> allows easy "run these suites on these machines" sorts of things?  Or
> a test results reporting package?  Or any other things like that?

This is really orthogonal to what unit test library (and what language!) you
use, but BuildBot (http://buildbot.sourceforge.net/) can automatically run
tests on various machines for you when you checkin to your source
repository.  I believe there's also a "try" command in the works, so you can
tell BuildBot to "try" a set of changes on various buildslaves, to check
that you haven't broken anything unexpected (and without needing to checkin
your code to find out).

Also, Twisted (http://twistedmatrix.com/) has a PyUnit-like utility of its
own, Trial.  It is almost API-compatible with PyUnit, but comes with a handy
command-line utility, 'trial', that lets you specify which tests to run on
the command-line, e.g.:

    trial mypackage.tests             # run all tests in mypackage.tests
    trial mypackage/tests             # ditto
    trial mypackage.tests.test_foo    # run all testcases in test_foo.py
    trial mypackage/tests/test_foo.py # ditto
    # run only one testcase
    trial mypackage.tests.test_foo.BarTestCase    
    # run only one test method
    trial mypackage.tests.test_foo.BarTestCase.test_baz

I find this to be a much nicer way to work than by sprinkling magic
    
    if __name__ == '__main__':
        unittest.main()

stanzas in all my tests, then having to figure out the right magic to write
a "test_all.py" or something to run all the tests.

Hope this helps,

-Andrew.





From shane at zope.com  Fri Jul 11 13:05:56 2003
From: shane at zope.com (Shane Hathaway)
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 13:05:56 -0400
Subject: Securing PyDoc and CGIHTTPserver
In-Reply-To: <3f0de5c0$0$49113$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
References: <mailman.1057851495.17561.python-list@python.org> <3f0de5c0$0$49113$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <3F0EEE74.6050008@zope.com>

Irmen de Jong wrote:
> Shane Hathaway wrote:
> 
>> What about binding only to the local (loopback) interface?  That way, 
>> the system won't even listen for external connections.  It's like a 
>> built-in firewall.
>>
>> The change is a one-liner.  The DocServer computes the hostname for 
>> the loopback interface but then binds to all interfaces.  So change 
>> this line:
>>
>>   self.address = ('', port)
>>
>> to:
>>
>>   self.address = (host, port)
>>
> 
> I think Shane meant:
> 
>     self.address = ('localhost',port)

No, actually the 'host' variable is computed on the line before it. :-) 
  It's either "127.0.0.1" or "localhost", depending on the platform. 
"localhost" is preferable for readability, but "127.0.0.1" is more reliable.

Shane





From kkto at csis.hku.hk  Wed Jul 30 01:04:05 2003
From: kkto at csis.hku.hk (Isaac To)
Date: 30 Jul 2003 13:04:05 +0800
Subject: variable assignment in "while" loop
References: <slrnbicoqq.6gh.sybrenUSE@sybren.thirdtower.com> <bg5vtj$68i$1@panix1.panix.com> <3f2695ca$0$76124$edfadb0f@dread11.news.tele.dk>
Message-ID: <7iwue061x6.fsf@enark.csis.hku.hk>

>>>>> "Anders" == Anders J Munch <andersjm at dancontrol.dk> writes:

    Anders> "Aahz" <aahz at pythoncraft.com> wrote:
    >>  Peter usually gives a good answer, but this time there's a better
    >> answer:

    Anders> With a bug, but if we combine Peter's answer with yours we get
    Anders> an even better answer:

    Anders> def fetch_iter(mydbcursor): while 1: info =
    Anders> mydbcursor.fetchone() if not info: break yield info

Or perhaps use a function instead...

def while_iter(f):
    while True:
        result = f()
        if (not result):
            return
        yield result

Then you can convert

    while info = mydbcursor.fetchone():
        print "Information: "+str(info)

trivially to

    for info in while_iter(lambda: mydbcursor.fetchone()):
        print "Information: "+str(info)

Regards,
Isaac.



From hanzspam at yahoo.com.au  Wed Jul  2 14:36:37 2003
From: hanzspam at yahoo.com.au (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Hannu_Kankaanp=E4=E4?=)
Date: 2 Jul 2003 11:36:37 -0700
Subject: 'For' loop symmetry with list comprehensions.
Message-ID: <840592e1.0307021036.508d7d7d@posting.google.com>

One can currently say this with list comprehensions:

[x.lower() for x in words if x.startswith('foo')]

Wouldn't it be better if the normal 'for' syntax was symmetrical
with the notation used in list comprehensions? To be more specific,
it lacks the 'if' part. I.e. this should be possible:

for x in words if x.startswith('foo'):
    print x

Naturally this is the same as:

for x in words:
    if x.startswith('foo'):
        print x

So one only benefits from one level shorter tabulation in
some situations. I admit this isn't much of a benefit in terms
of making shorter programs, but it would make the language
more symmetrical, which I do consider a win. It's a feature
that wouldn't need any learning or remembering since it's already
used in list comprehensions.



From fabsk+news at free.fr  Wed Jul 30 06:17:03 2003
From: fabsk+news at free.fr (Fabien SK)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 12:17:03 +0200
Subject: Embeding Python, COM crash
In-Reply-To: <3f278bf0$0$24554$626a54ce@news.free.fr>
References: <3f278bf0$0$24554$626a54ce@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <3f279b5d$0$8925$626a54ce@news.free.fr>

Fabien SK wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> I wrote a plugin for Visual C++ 6 that uses Python 2.2 (it worked 
> perfectly for months). I just installed Python 2.3, and recompiled my 
> plugin, and now it crashes. My plugin do the following things:

In fact, I found that it crahses with the versions more recent that 
winall-152:
- win32all-154 / python 2.2
- win32all-155 / python 2.3




From anthony at interlink.com.au  Tue Jul 22 09:47:38 2003
From: anthony at interlink.com.au (Anthony Baxter)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 23:47:38 +1000
Subject: [OT] SCO is Going After End Users 
In-Reply-To: <23891c90.0307220139.1909fc63@posting.google.com> 
References: <23891c90.0307220139.1909fc63@posting.google.com>  <4868482a.0307211336.4ca9493a@posting.google.com> 
Message-ID: <200307221347.h6MDlcNi027540@localhost.localdomain>

>>> Paul Boddie wrote
> (Insert footage of an office in IBM's legal department: the camera
> pans upward from a stack of papers representing SCO's claims;
> hysterical laughter can be heard as the camera pans across to one of
> the lawyers; "I love this job!" he exclaims.)

It's gotta be a weird time to be in IBM's legal department. I think
it's safe to say that my opinion of "hurry up and just finish off the
desperate/pathetic attempts of SCO to extort money from the rest of the
world" is probably not uncommon. How often is it that people barrack for
IBM legal?

(Although, in this case, it's a bit of an open-and-shut case for me to
work out which side to support. I mean, look at all the good things
SCO's done for the computing community... there's XENIX, and SCO UNIX,
and... well, no, actually, they've done fuckall. Bye bye SCO, you won't
be missed.)

-- 
Anthony Baxter     <anthony at interlink.com.au>   
It's never too late to have a happy childhood.




From achalk at XXXmagnacartasoftware.com  Wed Jul 30 14:41:57 2003
From: achalk at XXXmagnacartasoftware.com (Andrew Chalk)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 18:41:57 GMT
Subject: Python debugger
Message-ID: <VjUVa.1408$MK3.89@newssvr22.news.prodigy.com>

I am sure that it has been asked before but could someone tell a newbie
whether there is a Python debugger out there?

In case it is relevant, i am using v2.2 on Windows.

Many thanks.





From irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl  Sun Jul 13 15:01:11 2003
From: irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 21:01:11 +0200
Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=F1=EF=E5=F8=E8=E0=EB_=E4=EB=FF_=F0=EE=F1?=
 =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=F1=E8=E9=F1=EA=E8=F5_=EF=E8=F2=EE=ED=F9=E8=EA=EE=E2=29?=
 =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=29=29?=
In-Reply-To: <37d6f77c.0307130932.1e3adf0d@posting.google.com>
References: <37d6f77c.0307130932.1e3adf0d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3f11ac74$0$49101$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

Garber wrote:

> ?????, ?????????? ??? ??? ??????? ????? ??????(????????, ?????? ???? ?
> exe-???? ?????????).


Yes!
I think.

;-)

On second thought, what's he saying?




From skodela at lithium.com  Tue Jul 15 21:28:42 2003
From: skodela at lithium.com (sreekant)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 01:28:42 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Anyone noticed any new changes in tkinter
Message-ID: <bf29o9$nis$1@titan.btinternet.com>

Hi guys

I am running slackware 9.0 with python 2.2.2 and previously under 
mandrake I wrote a few programs for personal use. Now the same progs 
work partly under the new environment.

Mainly tkinter$.widget$.bind("<which_ever_event>",proc) now causes error 
and fails with error :-

Exception in Tkinter callback
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "/usr/lib/python2.2/lib-tk/Tkinter.py", line 1299, in __call__
     args = apply(self.subst, args)
   File "/usr/lib/python2.2/lib-tk/Tkinter.py", line 1035, in _substitute
     e.height = getint(h)
ValueError: invalid literal for int(): ??


Any ideas
sreekant




From bgailer at alum.rpi.edu  Thu Jul 24 12:18:54 2003
From: bgailer at alum.rpi.edu (Bob Gailer)
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 10:18:54 -0600
Subject: Mystery Theater New Style Classes
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20030724101747.02b6c4c0@66.28.54.253>


Predict the output:
class A(int):
     classval = 99
     def __init__(self, val = 0):
         if val:
             self = val
         else:
             self = A.classval
a=A(3)
b=A()
print a,b
The question this leads to is: how does one access the value of such a 
class within a class method?

Bob Gailer
bgailer at alum.rpi.edu
303 442 2625

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From hanzspam at yahoo.com.au  Mon Jul 14 13:30:56 2003
From: hanzspam at yahoo.com.au (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Hannu_Kankaanp=E4=E4?=)
Date: 14 Jul 2003 10:30:56 -0700
Subject: anything like C++ references?
References: <000301c348c7$3c501980$21795418@dell1700> <mailman.1058062578.6658.python-list@python.org> <u432hvkg62vsoela63f45e5pj144ehf7qe@4ax.com> <mailman.1058097105.20488.python-list@python.org> <5tn2hvgjqlqg1qs7omvugpvm62cuso261k@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <840592e1.0307140424.110cc2e3@posting.google.com>

Stephen Horne <intentionally at blank.co.uk> wrote in message news:<5tn2hvgjqlqg1qs7omvugpvm62cuso261k at 4ax.com>...
> >def foo(a, b, c):
> >  return a+b, b+c
> 
> You are not directly returning multiple values - you are returning a
> tuple. You can return containers in C++ too. The only difference is
> that Python makes working with tuples *much* easier - but its no more
> a 'simple progression' than in C++. You still need to know about
> tuples as well as returning values.

You don't need to know about tuples so that you can understand
that multiple values are returned, and that's the difference.
I didn't know of tuples when I saw some of my first Python code,
yet the idiom for returning multiple values was trivially clear.
It became even better though when I learned it was implemented
through tuples ;).

In contrast, in C++ one needs to explicitely state make_pair
or make_tuple, requiring the user to know of the underlying
types.

Had I been required to type

def foo(a, b, c):
    return tuple(a+b, b+c)

x = foo(a, b, c)
a = x[0]
b = x[1]

Then I could've agreed with you. But multi-assignment from
tuples and implicit creation of tuples makes the returning
of multiple values look like a language feature, not a way
to abuse tuples. This ease of use is the reason it can work
as a replacement for C++'s "send-by-reference".



From hollyw61 at hotmail.com  Mon Jul 14 13:04:40 2003
From: hollyw61 at hotmail.com (Holly)
Date: 14 Jul 2003 10:04:40 -0700
Subject: python 1.5.2 cgi.py and os.py error
Message-ID: <6e1f9b77.0307140904.6d4279af@posting.google.com>

Hello List,

My windows laptop configured as: XP, Python 1.5.2, MySQL 4.0.9 and
Appache 1.3.17

A form ("Post" has been used) has a product list with about 400
products. The user checks each item he wants and place an order. NOw
when they hit "Place Order" or "Cancel Order" , apache pops an error
in log:


[Wed Jul 09 14:33:11 2003] [error] [client 127.0.0.1] Premature end of
script headers: c:/program files/apache
group/apache/htdocs/usa/order.py
[Wed Jul 09 14:33:11 2003] [error] [client 127.0.0.1] Traceback
(innermost last):

[Wed Jul 09 14:33:11 2003] [error] [client 127.0.0.1]   File
"c:\PROGRA~1\APACHE~1\apache\htdocs\usa\order.py", line 1923, in ?

[Wed Jul 09 14:33:11 2003] [error] [client 127.0.0.1]     Main()

[Wed Jul 09 14:33:11 2003] [error] [client 127.0.0.1]   File
"c:\PROGRA~1\APACHE~1\apache\htdocs\usa\order.py", line 1892, in Main

[Wed Jul 09 14:33:11 2003] [error] [client 127.0.0.1]     form =
FormContent() # handle stdin parsing

[Wed Jul 09 14:33:11 2003] [error] [client 127.0.0.1]   File
"C:\usr\bin\lib\cgi.py", line 1097, in __init__

[Wed Jul 09 14:33:11 2003] [error] [client 127.0.0.1]     self.dict =
parse(environ=environ)

[Wed Jul 09 14:33:11 2003] [error] [client 127.0.0.1]   File
"C:\usr\bin\lib\cgi.py", line 528, in parse

[Wed Jul 09 14:33:11 2003] [error] [client 127.0.0.1]    
environ['QUERY_STRING'] = qs    # XXX Shouldn't, really

[Wed Jul 09 14:33:11 2003] [error] [client 127.0.0.1]   File
"C:\usr\bin\lib\os.py", line 243, in __setitem__

[Wed Jul 09 14:33:11 2003] [error] [client 127.0.0.1]     putenv(key,
item)

[Wed Jul 09 14:33:11 2003] [error] [client 127.0.0.1] OSError: (0,
'Error')

If I delete more than ten records in the product table, the error
disappears. Any ideas?

Thanks in advance.



From bitbucket at electron.me.uk  Fri Jul  4 19:04:51 2003
From: bitbucket at electron.me.uk (Geoffrey Clements)
Date: Sat, 05 Jul 2003 00:04:51 +0100
Subject: Eric3 segfaulting
Message-ID: <3f060811$0$56603$bed64819@pubnews.gradwell.net>

I'm brand new to Python - just giving it a try but I'm having trouble with
eric3.  This query isn't exactly about the Python language but it is
related.

I run KDE on linux so I already have Qt installed.  I have installed Python,
SIP, QScintilla, PyQt and eric3.

When I run eric3 the fonts in the editor are way too large, so I selected
preferences to change them but when I hit "OK" I get a segfault whether I
have made a change or not.

So I tried to debug eric3 in eric3 but I'm too new at this to be of any use
:-(.

I get the following error:
The debugged program raised the exception unhandled KeyError "19"

/home/geoff/eric-3.1/eric/Preferences/PreferencesLexer.py, Line: 75


This line is:
 return self.colours[style]

which is the end of function color.

Any help would be appreciated.

-- 
Geoff                                           Registered Linux user 196308
Replace bitbucket with geoff to mail me.



From stuart_clemons at us.ibm.com  Wed Jul 23 15:25:13 2003
From: stuart_clemons at us.ibm.com (stuartc)
Date: 23 Jul 2003 12:25:13 -0700
Subject: Newbie question about Python & W2K Admin
Message-ID: <86d2ca4.0307231125.70ee3f57@posting.google.com>

Hi all:

I need to change a few Local Security Settings on a number of W2K
machines. An example of a Security Setting I need to change is the
"Minimum password length" setting, which is under Account Policies,
Password Policy.

Instead of doing this manually on each machine, I would like to have
an automated way to do this.  Can Python be used for this ?

Any direction on how to automate this using Python or some other tool
will be greatly appreciated.

- Stuart



From vze4rx4y at verizon.net  Tue Jul 15 15:19:56 2003
From: vze4rx4y at verizon.net (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 19:19:56 GMT
Subject: Python Mystery Theatre -- Episode 2:  Así Fue
References: <VorQa.15236$Kw1.587@nwrdny02.gnilink.net> <3F140F34.1030401@mitretek.org>
Message-ID: <wtYQa.3786$LW3.438@nwrdny02.gnilink.net>

[Chris Reedy]
> The fix is easy:
>
> flam = [lambda x, fn=f: fn(x) for f in funcs]
>
> which creates a new local binding which captures the correct value at
> each iteration. This is the kind of problem which makes me wonder
> whether we ought to re-think about binding of variables for loops.


Hmm, I put too many distractors in this one.
It's not about lambda and loops.  And though it touches
on nested scopes and list comprehensions, the crux is
just plain old bound / unbound variables inside a function
definition:

>>> base = hex
>>> def changebase(x):
...     return base(x)

>>> changebase(20)
'0x14'
>>> base = oct
>>> changebase(20)
'024'

It's a feature!



Raymond Hettinger




>





From tjreedy at udel.edu  Thu Jul  3 02:16:19 2003
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 02:16:19 -0400
Subject: getting a submatrix of all true
References: <mailman.1057173484.29754.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <giqdnXMMi6WpV56iXTWJgQ@comcast.com>

"John Hunter" <jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu> wrote in message
news:mailman.1057173484.29754.python-list at python.org...
>
> I have a largish data set (1000 observations x 100 floating point
> variables), and some of the of the data are missing.

All too typical -- missing data are the bane of statistics.

>  I want to try a
> variety of clustering, neural network, etc, algorithms on the data,
> and to keep life simple I want to reduce the dimensions of the
matrix
> so that I have no missing values, since not all the algorithms are
> able to handle them and there is sufficient redundancy in the
> variables that I can afford to lose some.

Statisticians have tried a variety of approaches.  Googling  for '
statistics "missing data" 'will give you some leads if you want.

Terry J. Reedy





From yaipa at yahoo.com  Fri Jul 25 00:49:49 2003
From: yaipa at yahoo.com (yaipa h.)
Date: 24 Jul 2003 21:49:49 -0700
Subject: Sio serial module install problem with ActiveState
References: <pan.2003.07.14.21.40.42.609932@zexcite.zcom> <3F132FB3.CF0E6B44@engcorp.com> <pan.2003.07.15.02.56.25.188912@zexcite.zcom> <3F13703C.C12392D6@engcorp.com> <6e07b825.0307151214.3d2cce2@posting.google.com> <3F146F57.94A49564@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <6e07b825.0307242049.56dec88a@posting.google.com>

Peter,

Thanks, basically one server feed many serial clients.  From the sound
of your post I had better get "Serial Port Complete" before giving it
another run. 

Thanks.

   -Alan



Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message news:<3F146F57.94A49564 at engcorp.com>...
> "yaipa h." wrote:
> > 
> > All,
> > 
> > Worked like a charm for me too! I used it to develop an
> > automated attendant for a Serial Oven Controller. The
> > attendant ran from Sparc Solaris using Python 2.1 and pySerial.
> > 
> > The only weird thing, which I didn't get a chance to
> > debug, was a perfectly working script under RS-232
> > got terribly out of sync when R/W I/O to a RS-485
> > serial network.  Any reason why that would be?
> 
> Well, one reason might be that RS232 is point-to-point, while
> RS-485 is many-to-many, at least in principle.  Was this a 
> bus network, or at least a "multidrop" situation with one master
> and many slaves?  There are no guarantees in those situations, unless
> you've been very careful to ensure proper handshaking, timing,
> and such.
> 
> If you want to discuss this, please define "out of sync" in more
> detail... it could mean anything.
> 
> -Peter



From alanmk at hotmail.com  Mon Jul 21 05:55:14 2003
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 10:55:14 +0100
Subject: A challenge to the ASCII proponents.
References: <mailman.1058278343.23104.python-list@python.org> <bf167a$pvt$1@panix2.panix.com> <ufzl7rdno.fsf@online.no> <3F142A58.80426AA4@hotmail.com> <2259b0e2.0307161620.4a9353f1@posting.google.com> <Xns93BB246FDDBCFJanC@213.118.75.80> <3F168011.3AEB3EFC@hotmail.com> <60dfb6f6.0307201951.4eea1930@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3F1BB882.D142EE0D@hotmail.com>

Alan Kennedy:

>> So, the challenge to the ASCII proponents is: put the greek word
>> "gignooskoo" on everybody's screen, originating from a usenet message,
>> in the original greek, where "oo" -> greek letter omega.

Carl Banks wrote:

> I accept.
> 
>     ____        ____             ___    _____           ___
>    |       |   |       |\   |   /   \   \       |  /   /   \
>    |       |   |       | \  |   |   |    \      | /    |   |
>    |       |   |       |  \ |   |   |     >     |<     |   |
>    |       |   |       |   \|   \   /    /      | \    \   /
>    |       |   |       |    |   _\ /_   /____   |  \   _\ /_
> 

Very clever! 

You win a prize: a nice pint of cold frothy beer!

   oOoOo
,==|||||
|| |||||
|| |||||
'==HHHHH
   """""

Sl?inte mhaith! :-)

-- 
alan kennedy
-----------------------------------------------------
check http headers here: http://xhaus.com/headers
email alan:              http://xhaus.com/mailto/alan



From kyle at lakeofburningfire.org  Fri Jul  4 22:45:46 2003
From: kyle at lakeofburningfire.org (Kyle Yancey)
Date: Sat, 05 Jul 2003 02:45:46 GMT
Subject: When is unit-testing bad?
References: <3EEE1210.3004AB45@engcorp.com> <878ys06tcv.fsf_-_@pobox.com> <vf11j7l3f0ku52@news.supernews.com> <87of0pno5s.fsf@titan.staselog.com> <vg40uajdqo3ac4@corp.supernews.com> <bdunoh$1pms$1@biggoron.nerim.net> <87k7azdber.fsf@titan.staselog.com>
Message-ID: <jtecgv0t473bk054psja3lep7ped98o5k4@4ax.com>

Puffin looks nice, although it has undergone some changes that haven't
been documented yet.

Part I
http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/opensource/library/os-puffin.html

Part II
http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/opensource/library/os-puffin2.html

On Thu, 03 Jul 2003 15:47:56 +0300, Edvard Majakari
<edvard+web at majakari.net> wrote:

>On Wed, 2 Jul 2003, ageron at HOHOHOHOvideotron.ca wrote:
>
>> threads?  A lot of projects would be better off not using them, I agree
>> with that, but some projects just can't do without them!  Web sites are
>> also horrible to automatically unit test.  In all those cases, I much
>> prefer having a human being go out and do the unit tests manually.
>
>Which reminds me: I've seen two web unit testing frameworks, one which was
>by the originial PyUT author, and the other that seemed more complete,
>though not so well documented either.
>
>I've fancied developing one myself - so I'd like to know what kind of
>things should I take into account before trying such a largish project?  I
>know that it is hard to test Web-based applications, for one thing - the
>user doesn't usually type GET parameters to the URL, while doing so could
>be the only possible way to do automated web site testing. Ideas/comments?




From florian.proff.schulze at gmx.net  Tue Jul 15 08:48:55 2003
From: florian.proff.schulze at gmx.net (Florian Schulze)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 14:48:55 +0200
Subject: path module
References: <1057651068.5348.386.camel@lothlorien> <mailman.1057656790.5578.python-list@python.org> <182bcf76.0307141319.7b6fed7a@posting.google.com> <20030715090753.M6906@prim.han.de> <mailman.1058258788.6396.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <oprscq7tq7ttxc4i@news.t-online.de>

Try google with "cache:http://..." this worked for me.

Florian

On Tue, 15 Jul 2003 10:45:45 +0200, Paolo Invernizzi 
<paoloinvernizzi at dmsware.com> wrote:

> holger krekel wrote:
>
>> Paul Moore wrote:
>>
>>> holger krekel <pyth at devel.trillke.net> wrote in message 
>>> news:<mailman.1057656790.5578.python-list at python.org>...
>>>
>>>> I agree that something like Jason Orendorff's path module should go 
>>>> into
>>>> the standard library.  I've coded a similar module and i think that
>>>> a discussion about certain design decisions would probably improve our
>>>> approaches.
>>>
>>> Is it available anywhere? It would be nice to be able to try both, for 
>>> comparison.
>>
>>
>> sorry, not right now.  I'll try to make a release soonish.
>>
>> holger
>>
>
> I cannot access the path.py module from 
> http://www.jorendorff.com/articles/python/path/
>
> Someone can be so kind to email it to me?
>
> Thanks in advance!
>
> ---
> Paolo Invernizzi
> paoloinvernizzi at dmsware.com
>
>
>
>



-- 
Florian Schulze



From tim.one at comcast.net  Tue Jul 22 14:21:53 2003
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 14:21:53 -0400
Subject: python22_d.lib?
In-Reply-To: <bfjth8$jq3$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk>
Message-ID: <BIEJKCLHCIOIHAGOKOLHEEIKGGAA.tim.one@comcast.net>

[solosnake]
> Well I thought I would take my first few steps in embedding python
> today, and had to stop much sooner then I hoped. Where is
> python22_d.lib?

If you want a debug-build Python, you're expected to build it yourself.

> Why is it not in the release?

Because all users pay to download Python, but a relatively tiny percentage
of Windows users have any use for a debug-build Python.  We used to include
it in releases, but dealing with questions about it from confused newbies
proved to be an unsustainable time sink.

> I have 2.2.3, but nowhere is there such a library. Must I get the source
> and build it myself?

Yes.  Or ActiveState may still have one available for download.





From news at yebu.de  Wed Jul  2 08:04:58 2003
From: news at yebu.de (Karl Scalet)
Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 14:04:58 +0200
Subject: splitting a string into 2 new strings
In-Reply-To: <bdue2n$m07$1@aspen.sucs.soton.ac.uk>
References: <bdue2n$m07$1@aspen.sucs.soton.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <bduhpb$10te91$1@ID-141451.news.dfncis.de>

Mark Light schrieb:
> Hi,
>       I have a string e.g. 'C6 H12 O6' that I wish to split up to give 2
> strings
> 'C H O' and '6 12 6'.  I have played with string.split() and the re module -
> but can't quite get there.
> 
> Any help would be greatly appreciated.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Mark.
> 

Hi Mark aka Sugar-Baby,

there are very likely easier ways, but at least

s = 'C6 H12 O6'
print [' '.join(xx) for xx in apply(
	zip,[(x[0],x[1:]) for x in s.split()])]

gives some results,

Karl




From prashsingh at yahoo.com  Tue Jul 22 14:00:25 2003
From: prashsingh at yahoo.com (Prashant Singh)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 13:00:25 -0500
Subject: py2exe command line window problem
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1058892636.2682.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1058892636.2682.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bfjtu9$g4h$1@joe.rice.edu>

Bob Gailer wrote:

> At 09:27 AM 7/22/2003 -0700, Prashant Singh wrote:
> 
>> I'm using py2exe to create a standalone executable from a Python
>> script, and I would like the script to run invisibly, i.e. without a
>> console window and without any interactive GUI. The script is a helper
>> app, which simply downloads and runs some other program.
>>
>> I've tried passing the -w flag to the script, and I've also tried
>> renaming it with a .pyw extension, but when the executable is run an
>> empty console window opens with the title "C:\WINNT\system32\cmd.exe".
>> I've checked, and there are no print statements, which might cause
>> py2exe to assume it's still a console app.
> 
> 
> How are you running the executable?

Usually it gets executed by a browser (Mozilla, Firebird, IE), but I've 
tried running it from Start->Run... and from a Command Prompt window. In 
all cases it creates a new, blank console window.

Thanks,
prashant.




From db3l at fitlinxx.com  Mon Jul 14 14:20:57 2003
From: db3l at fitlinxx.com (David Bolen)
Date: 14 Jul 2003 14:20:57 -0400
Subject: How to get all IP addresses in python?
References: <belfv0$bqp4$1@netnews.upenn.edu> <6cd58b6.0307110715.1bb9bc23@posting.google.com> <ben0vb$cl8r$1@netnews.upenn.edu> <komugvsb0oil30kftm8i5hg5grpqliuhna@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <u8yr1as1i.fsf@fitlinxx.com>

Afanasiy <abelikov72 at hotmail.com> writes:

> FYI, It works perfectly on my Windows 2000 machine.
> 
> ... import socket
> ... print socket.getaddrinfo(socket.gethostname(), None)
> [(2, 0, 0, '', ('124.181.217.203', 0)), (2, 0, 0, '', ('169.254.25.142',
> 0)), (2, 0, 0, '', ('169.254.218.201', 0))]
> ...

Just remember that all of these approaches presume that your local DNS
server (or whatever server responds for your local machine name) has
all of the various possible addresses.  There's no guarantee that DNS
will match precisely what your machine is actually configured with,
including perhaps not having all of your addresses.  So its entirely
possible to return appropriate information in one case but not in
another.

What is really desired for this sort of query is to ask the system
about the actual configured interfaces - getting local IP addresses
shouldn't need to involve DNS at all (not to mention the traffic
necessary to resolve the information).  The problem is that checking
the physical interface configuration is not a portable procedure
(specific IOCtls on most Unix systems, not positive about Windows but
I know registry querying could do it).  This isn't an issue limited to
Python.

-- David




From solosnake at solosnake._remove_this_.fsnet.co.uk  Tue Jul 22 13:50:29 2003
From: solosnake at solosnake._remove_this_.fsnet.co.uk (solosnake)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 18:50:29 +0100
Subject: python22_d.lib?
Message-ID: <bfjth8$jq3$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk>

Well I thought I would take my first few steps in embedding python today,
and had to stop much sooner then I hoped. Where is python22_d.lib? Why is it
not in the release? I have 2.2.3, but nowhere is there such a library. Must
I get the source and build it myself? I'm using MSVC++ 6.0.

Thanks for all help,

D?ire Stockdale







From jadestar at idiom.com  Sun Jul 20 07:31:16 2003
From: jadestar at idiom.com (James T. Dennis)
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 11:31:16 -0000
Subject: IMAP examples
References: <3f15cf46$0$45389$1b62eedf@news.wanadoo.nl> <cb035744.0307162203.6b058ee1@posting.google.com> <mailman.1058451388.5767.python-list@python.org> <1058561410.563105@smirk> <3F187ED4.6179CDDD@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <1058700676.64323@smirk>

Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:
> "James T. Dennis" wrote:

>> Sean 'Shaleh' Perry <shalehperry at comcast.net> wrote:

>>>> If my english was better I would love to help improve the python
>>>> documentation, most modules in the standard libraries lack good
>>>> examples how to *use* them with just a simple description.  And a
>>>> short motivation for the design of a module if possible like "just
>>>> copied the C API" or "Because of efficiency ..." or "We use a class
>>>> framework here because ...".  A gigantic task.  The PSL book by effbot
>>>> is great but it's a book.  And it needs a new version.

>>> part of the reason why the docs are not but so great is that most of the
>>> library is Python code which means any questions can be answered by reading
>>> the source.  I find myself doing this quite often.

>>  <flame>That's BS!</flame>

>>  As a dabbler in programming I have to say that poor documentation is not
>>  excused by the availability of sources.  

> True, but poor documentation *is* excused quite nicely by the LACK
> of availability of _re_sources, specifically the human resources and time
> required to make them better.

> Or was your flame an indirect offer to assist with improving the 
> documentation of Python?  If so, thank you!

> (It's not like you've paid anything for the privilege of whining...)

> -Peter

 Yes. Moreover my suggestion for an enhancement to the web site
 docs would be a way to facilitate that.  Go look at the PHP 
 documentation.  Anyone reading it can attach comments; those can be
 merged into the docs as appropriate.



-- 
Jim Dennis,
Starshine: Signed, Sealed, Delivered




From sjmachin at lexicon.net  Fri Jul 18 20:52:39 2003
From: sjmachin at lexicon.net (John Machin)
Date: 18 Jul 2003 17:52:39 -0700
Subject: Augmented Assignment question
References: <215bhv0bnkn13eivh0s64ic5ml8obpgfg7@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <c76ff6fc.0307181652.206e7c43@posting.google.com>

Doug Tolton <dtolton at yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<215bhv0bnkn13eivh0s64ic5ml8obpgfg7 at 4ax.com>...
> I have a function that returns a tuple:
> 
>     def checkdoc(self, document):
>         blen = document['length']
>         bates = document['obates']
> 
>         normal, truncated, semicolon = 0,0,0
>         for bat in bates:
>             if len(bat) == 2 * blen:
>                 semicolon += 1
>             if len(bat) == blen - 1:
>                 truncated += 1
>             if len(bat) == blen:
>                 normal += 1

          self.total_normal += normal
          # etc etc
          # someone else suggested a separate class just for statistics
          # --- this is overkill IMHO
> 
>         return normal, truncated, semicolon
>



From news at 92tr.freeserve.co.uk  Mon Jul  7 09:11:10 2003
From: news at 92tr.freeserve.co.uk (ddoc)
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 13:11:10 +0000
Subject: Python and Perl module for signature of XML at UK Gove gateway
Message-ID: <bebqt1$v7b$1@news7.svr.pol.co.uk>

http://www.clocksoft.com/government_gateway.html

Clocksoft have made and released an Open Source alternative to the  
proprietary (and to me odd-looking) signing mecahnism required for the gov 
gateway.

Well done them.

-- 
A



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Mon Jul 28 16:53:23 2003
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 16:53:23 -0400
Subject: octet string conversion
References: <ec1162c7.0307281214.50b68373@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <Lz2dnaOhmMfeELiiXTWJjw@comcast.com>

"Matthew" <ruach at chpc.utah.edu> wrote in message
news:ec1162c7.0307281214.50b68373 at posting.google.com...
> I am working on some software that uses SNMP to get information from
> routers and switches. I am using the pysnmp module (v2.0.8) to do
the
> snmp part. The problem that I am having is that when I query a
router
> for mac addresses pysnmp returns octetstrings like this:
>
> \000\002\263\254\264\351
> \010\000 \301F\021
> \010\000 \300\303[
> \000\002\263\254\264\241
>
> what I need though is hex strings like this:
>
> 0:e0:7d:de:5:48
> 0:e0:7d:c8:dc:9f
> 8:0:36:4:3b:de
> 0:80:ad:3a:9e:2b
>
> Can anyone tell me how to convert the octet strings to hex strings?

Is this what you want?
>>> s=repr('\000\002\263\254\264\351').replace(r'\x', ':')
>>> s
"':00:02:b3:ac:b4:e9'" # double " single ' ... single ' double "
>>> s[2:-1]
'00:02:b3:ac:b4:e9'

Terry J. Reedy






From nushin2 at yahoo.com  Tue Jul 22 22:08:41 2003
From: nushin2 at yahoo.com (nushin)
Date: 22 Jul 2003 19:08:41 -0700
Subject: How to disable spawnv's child process output messages
Message-ID: <db3b6d24.0307221808.54896699@posting.google.com>

Greetings,

I have a program called hello_earth.py that is spawned by
hello_moon.py, using spawnv( ) API as:

os.spawnv(os.P_NOWAIT,'/usr/bin/python',('python','hello_earth.py'),('>/dev/null
&'))

I do not wish to see any output messages from the hello_earth.py when
it is launched by its parent process and i do wish to see *only* the
output messages from the parent process in the shell. Is Python
capable to so such a thing?

I have used '>/dev/null &' to disable the output of the child process,
but unfortunately, i still see them. Is there a way around it?

Reagrds,
BB



From 336699 at emailaccount.com  Fri Jul 25 01:24:56 2003
From: 336699 at emailaccount.com (336699)
Date: 24 Jul 2003 22:24:56 -0700
Subject: How to import hackicon.dll
References: <8a5a6d82.0307240417.494caa13@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <ef100524.0307242124.30fc7bc1@posting.google.com>

srovner at us.ibm.com (Sonia Rovner) wrote in message news:<8a5a6d82.0307240417.494caa13 at posting.google.com>...
> Hello,
> I'm using Python2.2.1 and Tcl/Tk 8.3 running on Win2000.  I've been
> researching how to change the icon on the title bar and found that
> hackicon is the one I should pursue.  However, hackicon package uses a
> dll.  When I run the hi.py, I get an error saying
>     ImportError: DLL load failed: The specified module could not be
> found.
> I copied hackicon.dll to various directories in my pythonpath but
> nothing happens.

Use tkIcon

http://effbot.org/downloads/index.cgi/tkicon-0.9-19980218.zip



From simon_place at whsmithnet.co.uk  Sun Jul  6 10:18:20 2003
From: simon_place at whsmithnet.co.uk (simon place)
Date: Sun, 06 Jul 2003 15:18:20 +0100
Subject: PEP idea. ( removing __slots__ )
In-Reply-To: <be8hr1$8eh$06$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <3f073594$1_2@news1.vip.uk.com> <be8hr1$8eh$06$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <3f083043$1_3@news1.vip.uk.com>

The point is to combine __dict__ and __slots__ into a new __attribs__, 
the distinction being the type of __attribs__.  If you don't specify 
__attribs__ in the class you get the default __dict__ behavior, if you 
do, and use a tuple, then you get the __slots__ behavior, and you can 
easily tell which by checking the type, you could also iterate over the 
attributes without caring which it was.




From rune.hansen at sinsenveien83.com  Fri Jul 25 07:22:51 2003
From: rune.hansen at sinsenveien83.com (Rune Hansen)
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 13:22:51 +0200
Subject: Problem with pyOpenSSL and Python2.3c
In-Reply-To: <bfpf3g$8il$1@skates.gsfc.nasa.gov>
References: <bfpf3g$8il$1@skates.gsfc.nasa.gov>
Message-ID: <fq8Ua.15671$Hb.263350@news4.e.nsc.no>

Hi, I've got no problems with pyOpenSSL with Python 2.3c1 on MacOS X 
10.2.x. I've only buildt pyOpenSSL with Python2.3b2 on RedHat 9, and had 
no problems there either. I may be able to help you if you provide some 
information about your setup and error messages.

regards
/rune

Stephen C. Waterbury wrote:

> I'm trying to get pyOpenSSL to work with Python 2.3c on
> Red Hat 9, but there seems to be a Python C API incompatibility.
> I assume this just means that a new version of pyOpenSSL is
> needed for Python 2.3 -- is that correct?
> 
> - Steve.
> 




From gh at ghaering.de  Thu Jul 31 04:36:16 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 10:36:16 +0200
Subject: Python vs. Perl vs. PHP?
In-Reply-To: <7b454334.0307301611.1b40ff11@posting.google.com>
References: <7b454334.0307281002.41dae81b@posting.google.com>
	<bg3qkk$lmr$05$1@news.t-online.com>
	<FzRVa.11353$R14.4280@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk>
	<7b454334.0307301611.1b40ff11@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3F28D500.1080105@ghaering.de>

Fazer wrote:
> [...]  I am basically looking for a FAST
> alternative to PHP meaning the responce time is fast.  Do you think
> that Python with using the CGI module is a good solution?

No, CGI is not a good solution in this case, no matter what the language 
(except those perverts who use something like C with dietlibc for this).

The base technology to make web requests fast in Python is something 
like mod_python or a Python application server. On top of this I'd 
recommend you use a Python web framework, of which there are numerous 
ones. The hard part is to evaluate them and choose one.

FWIW I'm currently using Quixote running with mod_scgi against Apache, 
mostly because I was fed up with the (lack of) Webware documentation, 
which I tried first.

-- Gerhard




From tzot at sil-tec.gr  Sun Jul 27 17:34:08 2003
From: tzot at sil-tec.gr (Christos TZOTZIOY Georgiou)
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 00:34:08 +0300
Subject: [Python] Re: [OT] On the TimBot
References: <mailman.1058834554.32124.python-list@python.org> <f3cf8593.0307232359.1bc1d19d@posting.google.com> <mailman.1059049837.12400.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c7h8ivg0cglv2j96rjsp0secjrjihj757p@4ax.com>

On Thu, 24 Jul 2003 07:32:32 -0500, rumours say that "Chris Gonnerman"
<chris.gonnerman at newcenturycomputers.net> might have written:

>> "Delaney, Timothy C (Timothy)" <tdelaney at avaya.com> wrote in message
>news:<mailman.1058834554.32124.python-list at python.org>...
>> > > From: Christos "TZOTZIOY" Georgiou [mailto:tzot at sil-tec.gr]
>> > >
>> > > what's the use of a Bit that's always true?
>> >
>> > Well, it compresses really well ...
>>
>> Yes, a single unchanging bit in time compresses very well (contrary to
>> a single bit at a specific moment in time).  But compressibility is an
>> attribute, not a use :)
>
>Doorstop?

Doorstop??!

Let me contemplate about it for a month or so, and I might find an
appropriate answer... :)
-- 
TZOTZIOY, I speak England very best,
Microsoft Security Alert: the Matrix began as open source.



From peter at engcorp.com  Sun Jul  6 23:00:39 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sun, 06 Jul 2003 23:00:39 -0400
Subject: anything new on the ternary operator?
References: <mailman.1057533670.9800.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3F08E257.74AC932C@engcorp.com>

Bob Gailer wrote:
> 
> Last I heard it was killed by Guido, which makes me wonder why we spent so
> much time discussing and voting. If he did not want it I wish he had killed
> it at the start. I thought the vote was to determine the best choice, and I
> was looking forward to having it.
> 
> <grumble>Makes me wonder about the whole PEP process. Why bother! </grumble>

>From the PEP (http://python.org/peps/pep-0308.html) :

  This is the community's one chance: if this PEP is approved with a clear 
  majority, it will be implemented in Python 2.4.  ... If the community can't 
  decide, the BDFL will reject the PEP.

Also, reading PEP 1 "PEP Purpose and Guidelines", I see nothing in there to
suggest that the process was not followed, and lots of things that point out
that the BDFL's ruling is still the only thing that matters, in the end.
Those dissenting will be required to start their own fork of Python, then 
shot. ;-)

PEP 1 also answers your question about "why we spent so much time discussing 
and voting"...

-Peter



From kevin at cazabon.com  Mon Jul 14 18:00:58 2003
From: kevin at cazabon.com (Kevin Cazabon)
Date: 14 Jul 2003 15:00:58 -0700
Subject: focus problem with full-screen in Tkinter
References: <2259b0e2.0307140746.46cf2e8c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <5a4226f0.0307141400.36684d3b@posting.google.com>

Wouldn't you have to do the bind as:

root.bind("q",lambda e: root.destroy())

I don't know if <q> evaluates to the same thing, but I know that
"normal" keys are not normally enclosed in <>.  It may or may not be
part of your problem.

Kevin.

mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato) wrote in message news:<2259b0e2.0307140746.46cf2e8c at posting.google.com>...
> I have a problem with full screen windows in Tkinter.
> Here is a minimal script showing the problem:
> 
> from Tkinter import *
> root=Tk()
> w, h = root.winfo_screenwidth(), root.winfo_screenheight()
> root.geometry("%dx%d+0+0" % (w, h))
> #root.overrideredirect(1)
> root.focus()
> root.bind("<q>",lambda e: root.destroy())
> root.bind("<1>",lambda e: root.destroy())
> root.mainloop()
> 
> Here everything works, and if I press "q" the window is destroyed.
> However, if I uncomment the line with "overrideredirect" and I
> really go full screen, Tkinter does not recognize the keybindings
> and I cannot close the window with "q". Fortunately, the mouse
> is recognized and I can close the window with a click.
> 
> I guess the problem is with the focus, how should I modify root.focus()
> to ensure that the keybindings are recognized?
> 
> TIA,
> 
>            Michele
> 
> P.S. I am using Python 2.2 on Red Hat 7.3



From kchu at elk.uvm.edu  Sun Jul 13 21:34:23 2003
From: kchu at elk.uvm.edu (Kelvin Chu)
Date: 14 Jul 2003 01:34:23 GMT
Subject: AIFC (Python and audio files.)
Message-ID: <bet1av$13f5q$1@swen.emba.uvm.edu>

Hello, Python Wizards...

I'm trying to use Python to write an aiff file.  I've used the aifc module 
and I've set the parameters (# of channels, encoding rate, compression, 
etc.)  

What does raw audio data look like?  Is each word of the raw audio data a 
frequency?  If I encode 440 for each of the frames, will I get concert A?

Thanks for any advice you can give on this subject.

Best,

-k

-- 
Kelvin Chu
Department of Physics, Cook Building, 82 University Place
University of Vermont, Burlington, VT 05405-0125
802.656.0064, http://www.uvm.edu/~kchu/



From skip at pobox.com  Wed Jul  2 10:00:09 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 09:00:09 -0500
Subject: Python-2.3b1 bugs on Windows2000 with: the new csv module, string
        replace, and the re module
In-Reply-To: <hc6el19am1o.fsf@mhbs.lsil.com>
References: <hc6el19am1o.fsf@mhbs.lsil.com>
Message-ID: <16130.58729.717919.803534@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    Daniel> Problem #1:

    Daniel> While using the csv module's DictWriter on MSDOS
    Daniel> (a.k.a. Windows2000), the output files get newlines like
    Daniel> \x0d\x0d\x0a instead of \x0d\x0a.

    Daniel> csvwriter = csv.DictWriter( file( out1filename, 'w' ), infieldnames, extrasaction='ignore' )
    Daniel> csvwriter.writerow( dict( zip( infieldnames, infieldnames ) ) )

CSV files are not really plain text files.  The line terminator string is an
explicit property of the file.  For example, you might want to write a CSV
file on a Windows 2000 machine which you intend to read on a Mac OS9 system
(where the line terminator is just \r).  You need to open CSV files with the
'b' flag.  This should work for you:

    csvwriter = csv.DictWriter( file( out1filename, 'wb' ), infieldnames,
                                extrasaction='ignore' )
    csvwriter.writerow( dict( zip( infieldnames, infieldnames ) ) )

Skip




From bgailer at alum.rpi.edu  Thu Jul 24 15:28:12 2003
From: bgailer at alum.rpi.edu (Bob Gailer)
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 13:28:12 -0600
Subject: Mystery Theater New Style Classes correction2
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20030724132745.01d6d398@66.28.54.253>

At 02:26 PM 7/24/2003 -0400, Terry Reedy wrote:


>"Bob Gailer" <bgailer at alum.rpi.edu> wrote in message
>news:mailman.1059062857.29503.python-list at python.org...
> > Predict the output:
> >
> > class A(int):
> >      classval = 99
> >      def __init__(self, val = 0):
> >          if val:
> >              self = val
> >          else:
> >              self = A.classval
>
>I am not sure what the point is.  However,
>
>1.  Rebinding the local variable 'self' (or any other local variable)
>only affects further code within the function, which there is not any.
>So the above conditional is equivalent to 'pass'.
>
>2.  Because ints are immutable, the value of a new int is set within
>int.__new__, which is not overwritten.  Thus, the above __init__ is
>irrelevant.  In particular, the value of an A object has nothing to do
>with the defaulted parameter 'val=0'.
>
> > a=A(3)
>
>3. This is equivalent to a=int(3).  No surprises.
>
> > b=A()
>
>4. This is equivalent to b = int().  I thought this might raise an
>exception.  But after seeing the result (0). I remember Guido's
>decision (and a recent PyDev discussion thereof) that callable builtin
>types should, if possible, return a null value when getting a null
>input.  Hence
>
> >>> int(), long(), float(), tuple(), list(), dict()
>(0, 0L, 0.0, (), [], {})
>
> > print a,b
>3,0
>
>5. Result is same if 'val=0' is changed to 'val=9' or anything else.
>
> > [from OP's self followup] The question this leads to is: how does
>one access the value of such a class within a class method?
>
>Since there is no class method presented, this make not much sense.
>Bob: were you aware of 4.) above when you posted this?

There's a lot I was not aware of. Your reply and <<GARY'S>> have given me 
what I needed.

Bob Gailer
bgailer at alum.rpi.edu
303 442 2625
-------------- next part --------------

---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.500 / Virus Database: 298 - Release Date: 7/10/2003

From kmj9907 at cs.rit.edu  Mon Jul 28 16:00:43 2003
From: kmj9907 at cs.rit.edu (Keith Jones)
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 20:00:43 GMT
Subject: Debugging Python ?
References: <mailman.1059409013.10134.python-list@python.org> <vian1bbfkogpa1@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2003.07.28.20.04.54.830939@cs.rit.edu>

On Mon, 28 Jul 2003 13:23:43 +0000, John Roth wrote:

> 
> Yup. AFIC, the print statement is only for debugging, and it's quite
> effective for that purpose.
> 

I would guess it's pretty good for teaching programming, too. Seeing 

print "Hello world"

is more welcoming than even:

import sys
sys.stdout.write("Hello world\n")







From see at below.invalid  Wed Jul 23 23:11:34 2003
From: see at below.invalid (Paul Foley)
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 15:11:34 +1200
Subject: feature request: a better str.endswith
References: <2259b0e2.0307180401.5dae02f2@posting.google.com> <mailman.1058530829.7072.python-list@python.org>
 <3f17f883$0$49107$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
 <2259b0e2.0307190529.57338b3f@posting.google.com>
 <NpkSa.16049$7O.14695@nwrdny01.gnilink.net>
 <2259b0e2.0307200721.16ef2ea1@posting.google.com>
 <45228044.0307210522.1ef95144@posting.google.com>
 <2259b0e2.0307210918.614892ba@posting.google.com>
 <bfi4ir$t21$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <m2znj4wrdl.fsf@mycroft.actrix.gen.nz>

On 22 Jul 2003 01:38:35 GMT, Bengt Richter wrote:

> I suspect it will more often make sense read aloud in the general

>   if any_true(pred, seq):

> than

>   if the(pred, seq)

> I guess the full set of functions might be
> any_true, any_false, all_true, and all_false.

> or maybe someone can think of better short phrase?

some, notevery, every, and notany, respectively.  Just like in a
certain other language :-)

-- 
Just because we Lisp programmers are better than everyone else is no
excuse for us to be arrogant.                                -- Erann Gat

(setq reply-to
  (concatenate 'string "Paul Foley " "<mycroft" '(#\@) "actrix.gen.nz>"))



From tdelaney at avaya.com  Mon Jul 14 22:02:22 2003
From: tdelaney at avaya.com (Delaney, Timothy C (Timothy))
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 12:02:22 +1000
Subject: Identity inconsistency and unification of types and classes
Message-ID: <338366A6D2E2CA4C9DAEAE652E12A1DE8D3A5F@au3010avexu1.global.avaya.com>

> From: Moshe Zadka [mailto:m at moshez.org]
>
> the fluttering of the wings of a butterfly in Tibet will 
> create a storm...
> err, sorry, got carried away there.
> 
> Exercise: Determine for yourself where exactly I got carried 
> away. Discuss.

Butterflies do not actually cause storms, but failing to account for butterflies will cause inaccurate predictions of weather conditions.

Other than that ... nope - sounded fine to me :)

Tim Delaney




From kanzen at mail.com  Sat Jul 19 05:10:25 2003
From: kanzen at mail.com (KanZen)
Date: 19 Jul 2003 02:10:25 -0700
Subject: __getitem__ and arguments
Message-ID: <10eb079f.0307190110.30deb5b9@posting.google.com>

I'm trying to understand the difference between __setitem__ and an
ordinary method. For example:

>>> class A(object):
      def __getitem__(self, *args):
        print len(args)
      def normalMethod(self, *args):
        print len(args)

>>> a=A()
>>> a.normalMethod(1, 2, 3)
3
>>> a[1, 2, 3]
1

For __getitem__() the arguments become a tuple. I can't seem to find
this in the language spec. Can anybody explain this to me?

Thanks,
KanZen.



From bokr at oz.net  Mon Jul 14 19:01:43 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 14 Jul 2003 23:01:43 GMT
Subject: Newbie with sort text file question
References: <86d2ca4.0307121146.3deb854a@posting.google.com> <beq357$thj$0@216.39.172.122> <86d2ca4.0307131344.3fb3b9d3@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bevcon$ad1$0@216.39.172.122>

On 13 Jul 2003 15:30:58 -0700, stuart_clemons at us.ibm.com (stuartc) wrote:

>Hi Bengt:
>
>Thank you. Your code worked perfectly based on the text file I
>provided.
>
>Unfortunately for me, my real text file has one slight variation that
>I did not account for.  That is, the fruit name does not always have
>an "_" after its name.  For example, apple below does not an an "_"
>attached to it.
>
>banana_c \\yellow
>apple   \\green
>orange_b \\yellow
>
Ok, try the changes below, to do same thing, but with re:

<snip>
>> 
>> ===< stuartc.py >========================================================
>> import StringIO
>> textf = StringIO.StringIO(r"""
>> banana_c \\yellow
>> apple_a \\green
>> orange_b \\yellow
>> banana_d \\green
>> orange_a \\orange
>> apple_w \\yellow
>> banana_e \\green
>> orange_x \\yellow
>> orange_y \\orange
>> """)
>> 
>> # I would like two output files:
>> # (actually two files ?? Ok)
>> 
>> # 1) Sorted like this, by the fruit name (the name before the dash)
>>
   import re
   rxo = re.compile(r'^([A-Za-z]+)(.*)$')
   #XXX#fruitlist = [line.split('_',1) for line in textf if line.strip()]
   fruitlist = [rxo.search(line).groups() for line in textf if line.strip()]
>> fruitlist.sort()
>> 
>> # apple_a \\green
>> # apple_w \\yellow
>> # banana_c \\yellow
>> # banana_d \\green
>> # banana_e \\green
>> # orange_a \\orange
>> # orange_b \\yellow
>> # orange_x \\yellow
>> # orange_y \\orange
>> 
>> outfile_1 = StringIO.StringIO()
   #XXX# >> outfile_1.write(''.join(['_'.join(pair) for pair in fruitlist]))
   outfile_1.write('\n'.join([''.join(pair) for pair in fruitlist]+['']))
>> 
>> # 2) Then summarized like this, ordered with the highest occurances
>> # first:

HTH

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From lamar_air at hotmail.com  Fri Jul 11 09:29:30 2003
From: lamar_air at hotmail.com (lamar_air)
Date: 11 Jul 2003 06:29:30 -0700
Subject: delete file
References: <2c6431ab.0307100711.780a65ad@posting.google.com> <mailman.1057851734.20147.python-list@python.org> <QugPa.26879$FN3.2233696@news.ono.com> <3F0D962E.23DA9F59@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <2c6431ab.0307110529.7a336f30@posting.google.com>

Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message news:<3F0D962E.23DA9F59 at engcorp.com>...
> "Bartolom? Sintes Marco" wrote:
> > 
> > I have a program that unzip some zip files. After unzipping them,
> > I want to delete the zip files with os.remove, but I get this error:
> > OSError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: ....
> 
> Close the files properly after unzipping them, perhaps?  If that
> doesn't help, please specify operating system, and give details
> on how you are unzipping.  Is it using Python's zipfile module,
> or some other method, and exactly how do you do it?
> 
> -Peter

I want to be able to delete a file on my C: drive through my python
script.  My script writes a file. So i want to delete the file if it
already exists then write it.  What's the best way to do this?



From tdelaney at avaya.com  Thu Jul 24 22:21:35 2003
From: tdelaney at avaya.com (Delaney, Timothy C (Timothy))
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 12:21:35 +1000
Subject: file.close()
Message-ID: <338366A6D2E2CA4C9DAEAE652E12A1DE8D47B8@au3010avexu1.global.avaya.com>

> From: Francois Pinard [mailto:pinard at iro.umontreal.ca]
> 
> The only reason to call `close' explicitly is when there is a 
> need to close
> prematurely.  Absolutely no doubt that such needs exist at times.  But
> closing all the time "just in case" is symptomatic of unsure 
> programming.
> Or else, it is using Python while still thinking in other languages.

No - it is writing portable code that conforms to the Python language documentation. But we've had this argument before.

Even in CPython, closing before a reference goes away is vital in many cases. The simplest example is writing to a file, then reading it. You don't always want to keep a copy of the data in memory - it's often a lot better to stream the data, even if you have to do it multiple times.

Tim Delaney




From alan.gauld at btinternet.com  Thu Jul 24 18:11:34 2003
From: alan.gauld at btinternet.com (Alan Gauld)
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 22:11:34 GMT
Subject: Reading Keyboard Scan Codes
References: <23daa443.0307231129.12d7ccf5@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3f2057ec.744508586@news.blueyonder.co.uk>

On 23 Jul 2003 12:29:06 -0700, michaelb_spam_this at yahoo.com
(Michael Bendzick) wrote:

> Is there a simple way in python to read a keyboard scan code?  I'm
> working on a shell script that interfaces with a proprietary keyboard
> device (extra buttons) and need to be able to distinguish between
> those keys.

The code to do this is on my programming tutor under Event Driven
Programming in the Advanced topics section. It uses Tkinter to
read and print the codes.

The critical part is this bit:

self.txtBox.bind("<Key>", self.doKeyEvent)


def doKeyEvent(self,event):
    str = "%d\n" % event.keycode
    self.txtBox.insert(END, str)
    return "break"

self.txtBox is a standard Text widget in Tkinter.

If you can find my book you'll see the code to do it using
msvcrt. :-)

Again the critical bit is:

key = mscvrt.getch()
if key == '\000' or key == '\xe0'  #detect special keys
   key = msvcrt.getch()             # read the second byte.

HTH,

Alan G.
Author of the Learn to Program website
http://www.freenetpages.co.uk/hp/alan.gauld



From bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au  Mon Jul 21 02:59:55 2003
From: bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au (Ben Finney)
Date: 21 Jul 2003 16:49:55 +0950
Subject: Unfortunate exception on dict item assignment (and why aren't slices hashable?)
References: <mailman.1058752171.10243.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrnbhmjh2.si4.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>

On Sun, 20 Jul 2003 20:48:16 -0500, Jeff Epler wrote:
>>>> {}[:] = None
> 
> I'd have expected something like 'TypeError: unslicable type' meaning
> that you can't slice a dict, not that slice()s aren't hashable.

You're not requesting to slice a dict; you're requesting to reference an
element of a dict with : as the key.

> In fact, I wonder why slices *aren't* hashable.

How would you store the resulting key; how would you expect it to be
returned from keys() ?

-- 
 \       "The right to use [strong cryptography] is the right to speak |
  `\                                          Navajo."  -- Eben Moglen |
_o__)                                                                  |
http://bignose.squidly.org/ 9CFE12B0 791A4267 887F520C B7AC2E51 BD41714B



From paul_rudin at scientia.com  Thu Jul 10 07:06:08 2003
From: paul_rudin at scientia.com (Paul Rudin)
Date: 10 Jul 2003 12:06:08 +0100
Subject: Deleting specific characters from a string
References: <begfb3$7j6$1@online.de> <3F0C851C.4000500@livinglogic.de> <3F0C8AC3.5010304@dadsetan.com> <mailman.1057789156.27025.python-list@python.org> <v26Pa.3428$o86.363@news1.central.cox.net>
Message-ID: <uu19uvdy7.fsf@scientia.com>

>>>>> "Jeff" == Jeff Hinrichs <jlh at cox.net> writes:


    > I've been following this thread, and on a whim I built a test
    > harness to time the different ideas that have been put forth in
    > this thread.  I will post complete results tomorrow on the web
    > but the short version is that using the .replace method is the
    > overall champ by quite a bit.  Below is the function I tested
    > against the others in the harness:

    > def stringReplace(s,c): """Remove any occurrences of characters
    > in c, from string s s - string to be filtered, c - characters to
    > filter""" for a in c: s = s.replace(a,'') return s

    > It wins also by being easy to understand, no filter or lambda.
    > Not that I have anything against filter or lambda, but when the
    > speediest method is the most readable, that solution is
    > definitely the Pythonic champ. :)

I haven't been following this thread closely but isn't a regexp the
obvious way to do this? I'd expect it to be faster than your solution
- particularly on large input (although I haven't actually
tried). Arguably it's more pythonic too :-)

re.compile(r).sub('',s)

where r is the obvious disjunctive regexp mentioning each of the
charaters you want to remove. If you want to construct such a regexp
from a list of characters:

r= reduce(lambda x,y: x+'|'+y, c,'')[1:]

So putting it all together as an alternative version of your fuction:


!!warning - untested code!!

import re

def stringReplace(s,c):
    r= reduce(lambda x,y: x+'|'+y, c,'')[1:]
    return re.compile(r).sub('',s)



From sismex01 at hebmex.com  Wed Jul  9 10:19:33 2003
From: sismex01 at hebmex.com (sismex01 at hebmex.com)
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 09:19:33 -0500 
Subject: QUESTION
Message-ID: <F7DB8D13DB61D511B6FF00B0D0F062330559722C@mail.hebmex.com>

> From: Matt5883 at aol.com [mailto:Matt5883 at aol.com] 
> Sent: Mi?rcoles, 09 de Julio de 2003 09:10 a.m.
> 
> What is python 2.1.1?

It's a programming language.

> How did it get on my computer?

Why do you think we have that information?

> Is it a necessary program?

Necessary for what?
Programming in Python? Definitely.

> Can I safely delete it/remove it?  If so how?

Just like any other windows program, via the control panel.

> I do not recall downloading it.  Does it come bundled with some
> other program? Maybe one of my kids did it.

May be; you *could* ask him/her/them.

> I do not see enough information on your site to make these
> determinations.

Just keep digging.

> I have a Compaq 5184 with OEM Win 98 installed...

You could try and upgrade to this "Linucks" thing...

> I do not ever recall seeing "python" in the programs.

Compaq didn't bundle Python with it's computers, if
that's what you're asking.

> I have been having alot of problems with my computer 
> lately and I am removing unecessary "junk".

Then, by all means, enter the control panel,
select "Add or Remove Programs", look for Python's
entry and double-click on it to remove it.

Another course of action is asking your kids about it;
you know, if you suspect they might have installed it,
it's normal practice to ask the probable culprits.

If you're not a programmer and have no intention of
ever becoming one, you probably won't be much interested
in Python.

> Thanks,
> Matt

You're welcome.

-gustavo
Advertencia:La informacion contenida en este mensaje es confidencial y
restringida, por lo tanto esta destinada unicamente para el uso de la
persona arriba indicada, se le notifica que esta prohibida la difusion de
este mensaje. Si ha recibido este mensaje por error, o si hay problemas en
la transmision, favor de comunicarse con el remitente. Gracias.




From paul_rudin at scientia.com  Thu Jul 10 09:35:36 2003
From: paul_rudin at scientia.com (Paul Rudin)
Date: 10 Jul 2003 14:35:36 +0100
Subject: Deleting specific characters from a string
References: <begfb3$7j6$1@online.de> <3F0C851C.4000500@livinglogic.de> <3F0C8AC3.5010304@dadsetan.com> <mailman.1057789156.27025.python-list@python.org> <v26Pa.3428$o86.363@news1.central.cox.net> <uu19uvdy7.fsf@scientia.com>
Message-ID: <ubrw2v713.fsf@scientia.com>

>>>>> "Paul" == Paul Rudin <paul_rudin at scientia.com> writes:


    > r= reduce(lambda x,y: x+'|'+y, c,'')[1:]

It occurs to me that this isn't what you want if c contains special
regexp chararacters so really it should be:

r= reduce(lambda x,y: x+'|'+y, map(re.escape,c),'')[1:]

    > So putting it all together as an alternative version of your
    > fuction:


    > !!warning - untested code!!

    > import re

    > def stringReplace(s,c): 
    >    r= reduce(lambda x,y: x+'|'+y, c,'')[1:]
        
         r= reduce(lambda x,y: x+'|'+y, map(re.escape,c),'')[1:]


    >    return re.compile(r).sub('',s)



From owski at hotmail.com  Tue Jul 15 22:04:44 2003
From: owski at hotmail.com (Adam Ruth)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 02:04:44 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: anything like C++ references?
References: <b8c3hvsesjoumiboobml3nsnajtha99mp1@4ax.com> 
	<mailman.1058129901.28248.python-list@python.org> 
	<plk3hv0s1m2egf4s34jo6vjedk0q8r2mu9@4ax.com> 
	<hflQa.48826$wk6.12216@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net> 
	<rp94hvc8fg6h91oe7ctqq9jn9ku3nlud1k@4ax.com> 
	<f0f51c80.0307150945.3f19e48b@posting.google.com> 
	<qlq8hv8e7a5177o250c2fhvg9hv2lhfa15@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <20030715200433927-0600@news.xmission.com>

In <qlq8hv8e7a5177o250c2fhvg9hv2lhfa15 at 4ax.com> Stephen Horne  wrote:
> On 15 Jul 2003 10:45:10 -0700, owski at hotmail.com (Adam Ruth) wrote:
> 
>>I came to Python from Ada, and all I have to say is:  Pointer-like
>>semantics are evil.  They're worse than goto's, they're deadly,
>>damaging, and should be avoided at all costs.
>>
>>They're an unhappy necessity, akin to stop-lights.  You need them
>>because roads intersect, but if roads don't intersect, don't use them!
> 
> Absolutely true. And the worst thing you can do when you really can't
> avoid pointers is to obscure the issue even more by disguising them as
> something else.

I assume that you're referring to people 'faking' pointer in Python (
such as wrapping variables in lists, etc.)  I'd ammend your statement to 
say:  

And the worst thing you can do is to obscure the issue even more by 
disguising them as something else, WHEN YOU DON'T REALLY HAVE TO.

In Python, there is no situation where "you really can't avoid pointers".  
It's only when you program C or C++ in Python that you think you can't 
avoid pointers.  There are much better idioms to achieve the desired 
results.

> The biggest problems with pointers relate to things with pointer math,
> pointers to deleted objects etc. These things need not exist in a
> scripting language that provides pointers - pointers don't have to be
> implemented using store addresses. That is just a concept from C, C++,
> Pascal, Ada etc - not something I want to see imitated. If pointers
> can be created that refer to given objects, and if pointers can be
> dereferenced, that is actually enough to support indirect referencing.

It's actually also unnecessary in Python.

Adam Ruth 



From adalke at mindspring.com  Fri Jul 18 16:43:22 2003
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 14:43:22 -0600
Subject: OT: Genetic Algorithm Recipe Bug Fix
References: <JwYMa.5801$eF3.719843@news20.bellglobal.com> <beh8ad$dm0$1@news.hccnet.nl> <mailman.1057764616.4199.python-list@python.org> <bf5s6m$occ$1@news.hccnet.nl> <bf89es$5hd$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net> <bf8v6k$4pf$1@news.hccnet.nl>
Message-ID: <bf9ls7$ukv$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net>

Anton Vredegoor:
> It helps a little. Whether I want to pay you depends on what you eat.

Pizza, burgers, black beans&rice, BBQ, chili rellenos, breakfast burritos.
Huh.  A lot of 'b'-based foods.

And for midsummer the last couple years - herring.  But that's a special
occasion.  :)

                    Andrew





From bokr at oz.net  Thu Jul 17 11:57:22 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 17 Jul 2003 15:57:22 GMT
Subject: Regular expression help
References: <LApRa.5420$Qe5.2628@nwrddc03.gnilink.net>
Message-ID: <bf6h12$irk$0@216.39.172.122>

On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 04:27:23 GMT, David Lees <abcdebl2nonspammy at verizon.net> wrote:

>I forget how to find multiple instances of stuff between tags using 
>regular expressions.  Specifically I want to find all the text between a 
>series of begin/end pairs in a multiline file.
>
>I tried:
> >>> p = 'begin(.*)end'
> >>> m = re.search(p,s,re.DOTALL)
>
>and got everything between the first begin and last end.  I guess 
>because of a greedy match.  What I want to do is a list where each 
>element is the text between another begin/end pair.
>
You were close. For non-greedy add the question mark after the greedy expression:

 >>> import re
 >>> s = """
 ... begin first end
 ... begin
 ... second
 ... end
 ... begin problem begin nested end end
 ... begin last end
 ... """
 >>> p = 'begin(.*?)end'
 >>> rx =re.compile(p,re.DOTALL)
 >>> rx.findall(s)
 [' first ', '\nsecond\n', ' problem begin nested ', ' last ']

Notice what happened with the nested begin-ends. If you have nesting, you
will need more than a simple regex approach.

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From fredrik at pythonware.com  Thu Jul 10 02:12:13 2003
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 08:12:13 +0200
Subject: Deleting specific characters from a string
References: <begfb3$7j6$1@online.de> <3F0C851C.4000500@livinglogic.de><3F0C8AC3.5010304@dadsetan.com> <mailman.1057789156.27025.python-list@python.org> <v26Pa.3428$o86.363@news1.central.cox.net>
Message-ID: <bej02o$2ba$2@main.gmane.org>

Jeff Hinrichs wrote:

> I will post complete results tomorrow on the web but the short
> version is that using the .replace method is the overall champ by
> quite a bit.

umm.  on my box, testing with Python 2.1 and 2.3, a translate-based
function is 2-3 times faster even on very short strings with very few
replacement characters...

the more replacement characters you have, the bigger the difference.

(let me guess: you're including the maketrans call in the benchmark?
don't do that; it creates a constant table, which of course should be
put in a global variable.  or bound to a default argument, if you really
care about speed...)

</F>







From jason.orendorff at lumigent.com  Fri Jul 25 16:19:49 2003
From: jason.orendorff at lumigent.com (Jason Orendorff)
Date: 25 Jul 2003 13:19:49 -0700
Subject: path module
References: <1057651068.5348.386.camel@lothlorien> <20030708113219.H6906@prim.han.de> <mailman.1057686613.6463.python-list@python.org> <11234c14.0307211016.344d40bc@posting.google.com> <mailman.1059144006.6426.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <11234c14.0307251219.70e77a85@posting.google.com>

holger krekel wrote:
> IMO you'll almost never use the following string-methods on a 'Path' object:
>     capitalize center count decode encode [...]
> and so these methods pollute a Path object's name-space quite a bit. 
> Also 'join', '__contains__', startswith etc. produce some ambigouity.

I'm not worried about "namespace pollution", but you're right that
strings and paths are generally used for different things.  I also
agree 'join()' is a wart.

> I think it's convenient enough to use "str(path)" if passing a 'path' 
> instance as a string somewhere.

Hmmm.  If the plan were to convert the whole standard library to accept
path objects for pathnames, I would likely agree.  But when you say
"str(p)" is "convenient enough", you're saying I need this rule in my head:

    Don't pass path objects to functions that take path arguments.
    Pass string objects instead.

This is a type rule.  Such a thing has no place in Python.

Furthermore, this rule is counterlogical!  I would have to change
"mimetypes.guess_type(mypath)" to "mimetypes.guess_type(str(mypath))".

-- j



From spinard at ra.rockwell.com  Thu Jul 10 16:14:01 2003
From: spinard at ra.rockwell.com (Steve Pinard)
Date: 10 Jul 2003 13:14:01 -0700
Subject: sort() doesn't work on dist.keys() ?
Message-ID: <6cd58b6.0307101214.34e99f2a@posting.google.com>

(Got a comm error trying to post first time, sorry if this
is a duplicate)

New to Python, so please bear with me.

>>> import sys
>>> print sys.modules.keys()          # works fine
['code', ...snip... ]
>>> print sys.modules.keys().sort()   # returns None, why?
None

According to my reference (Nutshell), keys() returns a
"copy" of the dict keys as a list, so I would expect when
I aply sort() to that list, I would get an in-place sorted
version of that list.  Why do I get None?

TIA,
- Steve



From skip at pobox.com  Wed Jul  2 11:23:03 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 10:23:03 -0500
Subject: Python-2.3b1 bugs on Windows2000 with: the new csv module,
        string       replace, and the re module
In-Reply-To: <hc6r8597z1j.fsf@mhbs.lsil.com>
References: <hc6el19am1o.fsf@mhbs.lsil.com>
        <16130.58729.717919.803534@montanaro.dyndns.org>
        <hc6r8597z1j.fsf@mhbs.lsil.com>
Message-ID: <16130.63703.427905.864666@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    Daniel> Perhaps the documentation should say something about using
    Daniel> binary mode?

Good point.  I'll fix the docs.

    Daniel> Or perhaps the DictWriter constructure should open the file in
    Daniel> binary mode if given a string rather than a file object?

Nah, too much overloading going on.

Skip




From intentionally at blank.co.uk  Tue Jul 15 16:56:49 2003
From: intentionally at blank.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 21:56:49 +0100
Subject: anything like C++ references?
References: <b8c3hvsesjoumiboobml3nsnajtha99mp1@4ax.com> <mailman.1058129901.28248.python-list@python.org> <plk3hv0s1m2egf4s34jo6vjedk0q8r2mu9@4ax.com> <hflQa.48826$wk6.12216@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net> <rp94hvc8fg6h91oe7ctqq9jn9ku3nlud1k@4ax.com> <slrnbh6fbc.72v.kamikaze@kuoi.asui.uidaho.edu> <tdo6hvo40qaga46ekamfe65opn2aaa9b41@4ax.com> <slrnbh7l94.mti.kamikaze@kuoi.asui.uidaho.edu>
Message-ID: <frn8hvggtom4vqen1s0ktr1hijfm9cvfe7@4ax.com>

On 15 Jul 2003 10:19:18 GMT, kamikaze at kuoi.asui.uidaho.edu (Mark
'Kamikaze' Hughes) wrote:

>> Really. My computer science lessons were taught in a way that
>> respected the source of most of the theory in mathematics -
>> algorithms, Church's lambda calculus and that kind of stuff.
>> What did your lessons teach?
>
>  How computer programming actually works, how to make interpreted and
>compiled languages, how to use them to solve problems, how to analyze
>algorithms, etc....  The usual.

You say that as if it contradicts the idea of respecting the source of
the theory. It doesn't.

>  Among those were classes in languages
>other than C, which is very broadening, and I highly recommend that to
>you.

Lets see.

Probably about a dozen basics, five assembler languages (6502, z80,
68000 series, 8086 series, 80C196KC microcontroller), forth, lisp,
prolog, miranda, haskell, icon, ada, pascal, modula 2, cobol,
smalltalk. Not all of them very seriously, though, and in many cases
not recently.

I forget the name of that language designed for transputers, but I
used that a bit at college too - and depending on your inclination you
may want to include SQL. And yes, I have used C, C++ and Java as well.

That's just off the top of my head, of course.

But there's no way you can call me C centric. That has been a repeated
accusation, but it is WRONG.

Python has been an everyday language for me LONGER than C++ has.

>> Respect the idea of variables binding to values and suddenly the need
>> for pointers becomes more obvious. You cannot abuse mutable objects to
>> fake pointer functionality (another everyday fact of Python
>> programming) if the binding of variables to values (rather than just
>> objects) is respected.
>
>  If you're trying to say that the trick I showed you of modifying a
>list to reproduce the effect of reference arguments is not possible in,
>say, C, you're wrong.  Trivially proven wrong, even, since Python is
>implemented in C.  In fact, the only languages where that won't work are
>those which don't allow passing complex arguments at all; some
>pure-functional toy languages, perhaps.

Distorting what I said, again. I have already repeatedly said that the
point about C is what happens by default - not what happens when you
explicitly request otherwise.

Lets take an example from C++ to illustrate the point.

  std::string x = "123";
  std::string y = x;

  //  At this point, in most implementations, x and y are bound to the
  //  same object due to a lazy copy optimisation. However, the
  //  programmer didn't request this optimisation so this
  //  implementation detail is expected to be transparent to the user.
  //  Therefore...

  y [2] = 4;

  //  Before doing this operation, a copy was made - the so called
  //  copy on write.
  //  The value bound to x is still "123"
  //  The value bound to y is now "124"

C++ is using references here just as Python does, but despite being a
crappy low level language it still manages to implement that without
causing remote side-effects through mutability *unless* you explicitly
request that.

>  If you're seriously demanding that all languages adhere to a religious
>observance of object and variable purity that exists in no serious
>programming language, you might want to stop and consider *why* nobody
>"respects" that.

Inertia? Or maybe no-one has really used many languages other than
perl and python, or maybe lisp on occasion.

Oh dear - am I jumping to unfair conclusions about peoples levels of
experience? I wonder where I got that idea from.

>If you want Python to change to obey
>your ideals, well, you're unlikely to effect that change;

I said long ago that this was a philosophical point. That doesn't mean
I'm going to sit down and take it when everyone says I'm wrong -
except when I am, of course. To date, I am the only person
participating in this thread to admit any error or to appologise for
anything.

What does that tell you?

I said an age ago that I wasn't expecting a change. I stated that
while python is not perfect, it is damn close - and that it is my
first choice language whenever I have a choice. And I also said that
if the ideas I've been discussing were implemented, Python would be so
different as to no longer be Python.

I don't need to believe that any language is absolutely perfect, you
see. I can discuss a possible flaw in even my favorite language
without feeling threatened or insecure. I just don't like it when
people contradict me, unless I recognise that contradiction as valid.
Sometimes I'm boneheaded about that - but when I realise my mistake I
admit it and appologise.

Many of the arguments used against me in this thread have directly
contradicted each other. In such cases, both people cannot be right.

So show me *one* admission of error by anyone other than me.

>Perhaps you should write your own language, if no others are
>acceptable to you.

Unlikely to be serious, but I've been thinking about it a while. A
decent copy-on-write system in a scripting language may just be a
handy differentiator.

FYI - I have written programming languages before. One currently in
use in a commercial product, though I still regard it as a toy. I have
also written several parser generators of my own - one python one
using (mostly) recursive descent, one using LR(1) and - because Python
is a tad slow for LR(1) of a decent size grammar (dependent on how
patient you are, of course) an LR(1) generator written in C++.

Creating a new language is not beyond my ability, but this is beside
the point. I never said python is crap or anything like that. That was
read into my words. I was discussing a weakness. There is no such
thing as a perfect language. Creating a new language as anything more
than an experimental exercise would be a massive waste of time and
effort - and I'd have a lot of man-hours of catching up to do.




From rochkind at basepath.com  Tue Jul 15 00:05:32 2003
From: rochkind at basepath.com (Marc Rochkind)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 22:05:32 -0600
Subject: Which Python Book
References: <3F134200.8060708@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <oprsb2zir2ojfyi9@den.news.speakeasy.net>

On Mon, 14 Jul 2003 19:51:28 -0400, hokiegal99 <hokiegal99 at hotmail.com> 
wrote:

> I have an option, I can buy either O'reilly's "Python in a Nutshell" or 
> "Python Cookbook", but not both. Which book is better?
[snip]

Haven't seen the Cookbook, but I can say that the Nutshell book is 
absolutely outstanding. One of the best books on any language. Very 
compact, very complete.

--Marc



From donn at u.washington.edu  Tue Jul  8 18:36:42 2003
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 15:36:42 -0700
Subject: print attitude
References: <mailman.1057355899.31256.python-list@python.org> <3F0669B5.679FB505@alcyone.com> <donn-6838FE.09532207072003@nntp1.u.washington.edu> <mailman.1057701015.16570.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <donn-978C19.15364108072003@nntp3.u.washington.edu>

In article <mailman.1057701015.16570.python-list at python.org>,
 Steven Taschuk <staschuk at telusplanet.net> wrote:

> Quoth Donn Cave:
>   [...]
> > I think some time back, Steven Taschuk proposed to submit a rewrite
> > of the str & repr documentation, [...]
> 
> I did.  See
>     <http://www.python.org/sf/727789>
> I am not entirely satisfied with the text (suggestions welcomed);
> I haven't taken the time to look at the matter again.

Well, I see I never did convince you to try to describe
the intent of str directly.

   Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu



From imbosol at aerojockey.com  Wed Jul 30 22:39:25 2003
From: imbosol at aerojockey.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 02:39:25 GMT
Subject: Embedded python: dotted (sub) module name
References: <3c91a864.0307301805.7cfea740@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <xj%Va.2846$cI2.2183@nwrdny01.gnilink.net>

logistix at cathoderaymission.net wrote:
> I get the feeling I'm just picking the wrong google search phrase
> here, because I'm finding nothing.  I'm trying to namespace out some
> embedded python modules.  This works:
> 
>        Py_InitModule("game", py_game_methods);
> 
> but this doesn't:
> 
>        Py_InitModule("quake.game", py_game_methods);
> 
> What am I missing here? Any help would be appreciated.


A module's package is defined the importer, not by the module itself.
Move a module file to a different directory, and BAM, it's in a
different package.

If your only wish is to make it so that someone can import your
extension module using "from quake import game", then it is enough to
just copy the DLL or shared lib into the proper directory.  (Well, you
also have to remember to put an __init__.py file in the quake
directory.)


-- 
CARL BANKS



From jzgoda at gazeta.usun.pl  Sun Jul 13 14:11:39 2003
From: jzgoda at gazeta.usun.pl (Jarek Zgoda)
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 18:11:39 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: How to crash Python in 1 easy step (python 2.2.2)
References: <2e363c08.0307130944.4c470bc3@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bes7cr$bdt$4@nemesis.news.tpi.pl>

Paul Miller <pwmiller1 at adelphia.net> pisze:

> I'm not sure if this is a python bug or a bug in an associated
> library, and I'm not even sure how to correctly report it, but here is
>   Anytime python is accepting keyboard input, whether it's with
> raw_input, or sitting on the command line waiting for the user to type
> code, you can crash python by holding ctrl+shift and then pressing
> enter.

Nothing happens on my Slackware 9. On W2k Sp3 box also nothing.

-- 
Jarek Zgoda
Registered Linux User #-1
http://www.zgoda.biz/ JID:zgoda at chrome.pl http://zgoda.jogger.pl/



From maxm at mxm.dk  Wed Jul  2 08:27:16 2003
From: maxm at mxm.dk (Max M)
Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 14:27:16 +0200
Subject: Assign to True / False in 2.3
In-Reply-To: <3F02ADD3.6047F561@alcyone.com>
References: <bdu98t$1eh$1@lust.ihug.co.nz> <3F02ADD3.6047F561@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <3f02cf2e$0$97227$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>

> Culley Angus wrote:

> This is true of pretty much all Python features.  The only special
> dispensation goes to None, which is a warning now (in the 2.3 beta)


I most often use this freedom to overwrite "id". I Guess that it's a bad 
Zope habbit...

regards Max M




From shalehperry at comcast.net  Mon Jul 28 20:04:01 2003
From: shalehperry at comcast.net (Sean 'Shaleh' Perry)
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 17:04:01 -0700
Subject: List Question
In-Reply-To: <005001c35495$5d3f5dc0$6400a8c0@EVOD31>
References: <001e01c3548d$bed5a420$6400a8c0@EVOD31> <20030728111954.GA20253@dave@alana.ucc.usyd.edu.au> <005001c35495$5d3f5dc0$6400a8c0@EVOD31>
Message-ID: <200307281704.01062.shalehperry@comcast.net>

On Sunday 27 July 2003 16:18, Bill Loren wrote:
> Thanks all,
> and again, accept my apologizes for the stupid question...
> *blushed* B
>

not really a stupid question.  People ask it fairly regularly.  Many expect 
something like my_list.length() to work (hey, Python is OO after all).

The typical response is len() works pretty much any where that len() would 
make sense.

strings, tuples, lists, user defined classes as long as it honors __len__(), 
etc.





From ianb at colorstudy.com  Sun Jul 20 19:11:46 2003
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: 20 Jul 2003 18:11:46 -0500
Subject: Possible use of Python for a voting machine demo project --
	your feedback requested
In-Reply-To: <bff56e$8iv$1@slb9.atl.mindspring.net>
References: <P9DSa.111436$Io.9552373@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
	 <bff56e$8iv$1@slb9.atl.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <1058742706.28090.2303.camel@lothlorien>

On Sun, 2003-07-20 at 17:35, Andrew Dalke wrote:
> Heh.  I read "CLEAR CHOICES" as a command "the choices are clear".

I made that same mistake (and I thought it was odd for the UI to assert
its clarity :).

> > 8) The printout is intended to come from a personal laser printer located
> in
> > the voting booth.  For the demo, we'll probably use the HP Laserjet 5L.
> 
> I approve of the Mercuri system (I think that's what it's called when a
> paper ballot is generated from an electronic ballot - the all-electronic one
> I use now is scary).  I was just thinking though.  Suppose I wanted to rig
> the elections by paying for votes.  If I know the format of the ballot, I
> could generate them myself on specially marked paper then give that
> to the people who I've payed for the vote, who go through the process
> of voting but use the paper I gave them instead of the printout..  Later, I
> or my cronies get access to the ballots (eg, "I'm a reporter and I want to
> verify the votes") and can see if my special ballots are included, and
> reward/punish as appropriate.

You could make sure that ballots were not brought in by signing the
ballot with some key that is unknown in advance, potentially a key that
is generated by each machine when it is started up (then somehow
recorded so the key can be verified -- written to hard disk and printed
out to be collected at the end of the voting period?).  That way you'd
have to corrupt the actual election officials, and once you've done that
it's all pretty hopeless.

> > The
> > selections will be bar coded in a strip on the left edge.  Probably,
> > write-in candidate names will be in a separate bar code.  The printout
> will
> > list the voter's selections in text that can be easily read by humans and
> > scanners.
> 
> The phrase "bar code" scares me in that the bar code and the human
> readable text may differ.  Why not just have everything in text?

It should be quite easy to audit bar codes.  The advantage is that they
are more easily machine read than text -- an on-site reader could be
both simple, cheap, and reliable for a bar code, but I suspect OCR will
not be as reliable.  In a centralized, more controlled location OCR will
probably be fine.  The case of actual fraud, a mere sampling of votes
will probably expose the fraud (since the text is known to be accurate
since the voter will confirm the text).

I don't think filled-in dots are particularly better than bar codes. 
It's effectively just a slightly more transparent bar code, which isn't
necessary.  I think an audit trail is sufficient -- the problem with
punch cards is that the voter doesn't get to confirm their choice in
such a way that a recount can match the confirmed, known correct choice
against what the machine read.

> My caution though is that usability testing for this is deeply hard,
> and I would advise against "a few weeks" even for demo prototype
> code as you suggest.

Well, the only way to do a usability test is with a demo, so no reason
not for him to dive in...

  Ian






From skip at pobox.com  Tue Jul  8 10:51:26 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 09:51:26 -0500
Subject: path module
In-Reply-To: <r01050400-1026-C21D1790B14E11D7A953003065D5E7E4@[10.0.0.23]>
References: <16138.53027.356511.290162@montanaro.dyndns.org>
        <r01050400-1026-C21D1790B14E11D7A953003065D5E7E4@[10.0.0.23]>
Message-ID: <16138.55918.159252.387878@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    >> path = basePath/"a/b/c"

    Just> Ooh, it _can_ get worse ;-/

    Just> Also: this would not be portable on platforms not using / as
    Just> os.sep, ...

Not necessarily.  My guess (again, without trying it) is that it does the
right thing.  Right near the top of

    http://www.jorendorff.com/articles/python/path/

Jason writes:

    I like for my code to be cross-platform, but I tired of typing
    os.path.join in about 1994.



    >> Sure, just like '%' means modulo in Python, but it seems to have
    >> found a home in printf-style string expansion.

    Just> True, but string expansion is quite old (possibly even Python 0.9
    Just> or 1.0?), so most people are used to it. (Although, newbies
    Just> without a C background are usually baffled by it. I know I was,
    Just> back then...).

Just because a better alternative to os.path turns up now is no reason to
discount it.

Nonetheless, before anything like Jason's path module is incorporated into
the standard distribution, a PEP is almost certainly required.  I imagine
there are some things which could be done better (or at least differently)
to make the overall module more acceptable.

Skip




From jjl at pobox.com  Tue Jul 15 07:20:01 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 15 Jul 2003 12:20:01 +0100
Subject: Confusing automated translators.
References: <37d6f77c.0307130932.1e3adf0d@posting.google.com> <3f11ac74$0$49101$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl> <ad052e5c.0307131718.4903430d@posting.google.com> <3F12808B.E53193B8@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <87brvw3ula.fsf@pobox.com>

Alan Kennedy <alanmk at hotmail.com> writes:

> Dan Bishop wrote:
> 
> > The Babelfish translation is
> > 
> > "People, you polskazhite plz where to reach progu to
> > frizer(kazhet'sya, shorter must be into yekhe-shnik outdistanced)."
> 
> My favourite "phrase designed to mess up machine translation" (I'll
> bet there's one big long word for that in German) is
> 
> "Time flies like an arrow, but fruit flies like a banana".
> 
> :-D
> 
> I'd love to hear of other similar phrases. And somehow I intuit
> there's people in this ng who know lots of them :-)
[...]

There are so many...

Matthew 25:35  I was a stranger, and you took me in.

In English, there are two obvious meanings (the second, which is
amusingly in almost exact contradiction to the real meaning, is only
obvious to a native speaker once somebody sufficiently perverse has
pointed out its existence ;).  Automated translation usually misses
both of them, of course.

What surprised me was *how many* possible interpretations of some of
these phrases there are: IIRC, one program extracted tens of subtly
different possible meanings from "Time flies...".


PS just to take things even further OT, does anybody remember the
words coined by Steven Pinker in one of his books (probably to
illustrate how English does something similar to German in forming new
words)?  One meaning "fear of peanut butter sticking to the roof of
one's mouth", and another one which was, IIRC, some kind of
self-referential joke?  Couldn't find it in "The Language Instinct",
so I guess it must have been in "How The Mind Works", which I don't
have a copy of.


John



From mirko-lists at zeibig.net  Wed Jul  2 04:28:44 2003
From: mirko-lists at zeibig.net (Mirko Zeibig)
Date: 2 Jul 2003 08:28:44 GMT
Subject: functors
References: <3jc4gvgn5rb4c4008eedg958ee594lu8p2@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <slrnbg55ts.c27.mirko-lists@zeibig.net>

On Wed, 02 Jul 2003 at 01:25 GMT, Tom Plunket <tomas at fancy.org> wrote:
Hello Tom,

it's even simpler and maybe to obvious for a C++-afficinado:

> class SomeClass:
>     def __init__(self):
>         self.countdown = Countdown()
>         self.countdown.SetCallback(30, lambda s=self: s.Callback)

          self.countdown.SetCallback(30, self.Callback)

You don't need lambda here, just give the Countdown class a reference to your
callback-method by specifying it's name *without* parentheses :-).

If you print self.Callback, you will the information, that this is a
instance-bound method object.

You can easily assign a new name to a function and call it afterwards:

li = []
al = li.append
al("Hello")
al("World")
print "".join(li)

This may even be faster as dot-resolution takes some time.

Regards
Mirko



From tim at zope.com  Wed Jul 16 16:11:08 2003
From: tim at zope.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 16:11:08 -0400
Subject: Replacing rexec
In-Reply-To: <1058378060.5034.13.camel@redwall.ofsloans.com>
Message-ID: <BIEJKCLHCIOIHAGOKOLHCEGHGFAA.tim@zope.com>

[Tim Gerla]
> We are looking to use plpython in PostgreSQL, but it's being
> downgraded to "untrusted" and/or being completely removed because
> Python's rexec went away. Why did rexec go away, specifically? I know
> it had security issues,

Bingo.

> but couldn't these have been fixed?

Nobody knows for sure, because nobody volunteered the time to dig into it,
and Guido's employer didn't want to fund work on it (nor, apparently, did
anyone else's).

> Did the module just have too many integral flaws in the design to be
> worth saving?

I don't think so.

> Is anyone working on a replacement?

Not that I've heard of.

> If not, why not?

Well, for that we'd have to ask everyone who didn't volunteer -- which is
everyone <wink>.

> Even if plpython isn't very widely used, I think it's still important
> for advocacy. I'd much rather write Python than PL.
>
> Anyway, I'm looking for a summary of specific reasons why rexec went
> away without a replacement. I understand completely that it had flaws
> and was insecure; I'm only confused as to why these flaws were
> insurmountable.

I don't know that they are, but the lack of any volunteer time to work on
it, coupled with the lack of any paid time to work on it, added up to no
work on it.

> Given a bit more assurance that a replacement would be useful and
> possible, we potentially have the resources to do so. Having a working
> and trusted plpython is valuable to both my own organization and,
> IMHO, the Python world itself.

I don't disagree, and was a little surprised that the Python Business Forum
didn't jump on this one.  If it's a void you want to fill, please do!





From wim_wauters at skynet.be  Thu Jul 10 07:56:27 2003
From: wim_wauters at skynet.be (WIWA)
Date: 10 Jul 2003 04:56:27 -0700
Subject: pySNMP: SNMPget example
Message-ID: <538fc8e.0307100356.4bf46554@posting.google.com>

I have recently installed pySNMP 3.3.2 and use Python 2.2.2. Thanks to
Peter Hansen, I succeeded to install pySNMP properly. I'm not
completely new to SNMP (I know the basics), but I'm new to Python and
pysnmp. While experimenting, I find some strange things. When using
pySNMP:

1) I can type: 'import pysnmp' or 'from pysnmp import *'

2) when using: 'from pysnmp import role' (found on
http://pysnmp.sourceforge
.net/examples/2.x/snmpget.html), I get the message 'ImportError:
cannot
import name role'. The same applies for 'from pysnmp import session'
or 'from pysnmp import v1' , but 'from pysnmp import proto' seems to
work.

3) A general question: how can I get a list of what I can type after
the 'from
pysnmp import ...'

4) How can I use: 'from snmpget import snmpget'. It does not accept
this.

5) Anyone has a simple example for the following application: I have a
cable
modem (which has an SNMP agent inside). I want to make a script where
I can
do SNMPgets (and later SNMPSet and SNMPwalk). 

6) Where can I find a simple description on how to use 'snmpget'. I
cannot find
anything. I would like to write sth like snmpget(IP, OID)

7) What is the difference between snmpget and getrequest in pysnmp? 

Any input is appreciated...

Thanks in advance,

Wim



From google at klitos.org  Wed Jul 23 08:56:31 2003
From: google at klitos.org (Klitos Kyriacou)
Date: 23 Jul 2003 05:56:31 -0700
Subject: py2exe command line window problem
References: <mailman.1058892636.2682.python-list@python.org> <bfjtu9$g4h$1@joe.rice.edu>
Message-ID: <f994d58d.0307230456.39108772@posting.google.com>

The fact that the console window shows it's running cmd.exe (the Windows
Command Processor) gives us a good clue. Not all console windows run cmd.exe,
so this is significant. Python's os.system function uses the shell specified
by the ComSpec environment variable (usually C:\WINNT\system32\cmd.exe) to
run the command given as an argument. Check if you are calling system() in
your Python script. If you are, you can be fairly certain that's what's
creating the console window.

Regards,
Klitos



From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Thu Jul 31 17:14:10 2003
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 17:14:10 -0400
Subject: Newbie: implementing lowlevel protocol over socket int32 data handling
References: <bgbaj5$kgv$2@news4.tilbu1.nb.home.nl> <viicacikrp1vde@news.supernews.com> <bgbd4i$h6o$1@news4.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>
Message-ID: <vij1lj8mure83b@news.supernews.com>

"Bram" <bram at norealaddress.com> wrote in message
news:bgbd4i$h6o$1 at news4.tilbu1.nb.home.nl...
> Thank you for replying so quickly.
> You thought right, this resolves all my problems :-)
> Bram

You're welcome. Quick replies happen on this
newsgroup - who replies depends on who happens to
check his mail first.

John Roth


> John Roth wrote:
> >
> > I took a quick look at the Wiki describing the protocol. For
> > something like this, I'd expect that interoperability would be
> > an issue, so the actual data format in the packets would be
> > part of the protocol specification.
> >
> > That being the case, look at the struct module. I think it does
> > exactly what you need.
> >
> > John Roth
>





From jepler at unpythonic.net  Wed Jul 16 14:10:40 2003
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 13:10:40 -0500
Subject: Securing the Pyton Interpreter?
In-Reply-To: <slrnbh7q3f.kiv.usenet@norge.freeshell.org>
References: <slrnbh7q3f.kiv.usenet@norge.freeshell.org>
Message-ID: <20030716181040.GB1967@unpythonic.net>

I've never tried to set up a "secure" unix system, in the sense that
users will only be allowed to execute certain commands.  However there
are any number of secure/restricted shells.

I suspect that if you use one of these, you can get what you want.  For
instance, you would have /usr/bin forbidden, and /usr/safebin permitted.
In /usr/safebin/pyscript you'd lead off with "#!/usr/bin/python -E".
"-E" prevents Python from obeying environment variables like
PYTHONPATH, PYTHONHOME, and PYTHONINSPECT, all of which can let the user
"sneak" code in to be executed.

Of course, you have to be sure that the individual python scripts are
"secure" also.  For instance, the following one *isn't*:
	#!/usr/bin/python -E
	# Print prime factors of a number (like /usr/bin/factor)
	import sys, math
	for arg in sys.argv[1:]:
		num = eval(arg)

		print "%d:" % num,
		i=2
		while num != 1:
			while num % i == 0:
				print i,
				num = num / i
			i=i+1
		print
using eval() is the reason, in case you didn't catch it, but there are
more subtle ways to write Python programs that let the user do arbitrary
things.  For instance, if a program uses pickle and lets the user alter
the pickle's contents, the user can execute arbitrary code.  If there's
a bug in the C program that implements the Python interpreter or any
extension module, the user might be able to arrange to "smash the stack"
and do the same thing.  Whether these things really matter depend on
how secure your multi-user system needs to be. (this last type of attack
could be true of any program, though, not just Python)

Jeff




From abcdebl2nonspammy at verizon.net  Wed Jul 30 23:40:06 2003
From: abcdebl2nonspammy at verizon.net (David Lees)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 03:40:06 GMT
Subject: Thank you developers for 2.3
In-Reply-To: <lMKVa.907$cI2.99@nwrdny01.gnilink.net>
References: <aOIVa.8149$yv1.7974@nwrddc02.gnilink.net> <lMKVa.907$cI2.99@nwrdny01.gnilink.net>
Message-ID: <qc0Wa.3163$cI2.1373@nwrdny01.gnilink.net>

Added initialization to a long and printout of both time and result.
Looks like faith was justified, but good point Raymond.

David Lees
------------
import time

def speedTest(N):
     t1 = time.time()
     k = 0L
     for i in xrange(N):
         for j in xrange(N):
             k += (i+j)

     t2 = time.time()
     return t2-t1,k

print speedTest(3000)
---------
Python 2.3
 >>> (5.406999945640564, 26991000000L)

Python 2.2.3
 >>> (10.465000033378601, 26991000000L)




From bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au  Sun Jul 20 01:04:08 2003
From: bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au (Ben Finney)
Date: 20 Jul 2003 14:54:08 +0950
Subject: Python vs ...
References: <3f19dad1@news.syd.ip.net.au>
Message-ID: <slrnbhjob9.tp.bignose-hates-spam@rose.localdomain.fake>

On Sat, 19 Jul 2003 23:57:40 GMT, Ray Smith wrote:
> when I program a tricky well written piece of code

When I see a piece of code that can be described as "tricky", I think
"Gee I bet this is a source of bugs".

Make your code obvious, please.  Trickiness is what I want in a mystery
novel or a puzzle, not in code to be read by humans.

-- 
 \      "I busted a mirror and got seven years bad luck, but my lawyer |
  `\                     thinks he can get me five."  -- Steven Wright |
_o__)                                                                  |
http://bignose.squidly.org/ 9CFE12B0 791A4267 887F520C B7AC2E51 BD41714B



From ebolonev at rol.ru  Sat Jul  5 22:04:44 2003
From: ebolonev at rol.ru (Egor Bolonev)
Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2003 13:04:44 +1100
Subject: command line (WinXP)
Message-ID: <be80be$mlb$1@news.rol.ru>

Hello, All!

I have made a module(see below) and have discovered a strange behaviour in
comand line mode:

=========Beginning of the citation==============
C:\...y Music\Katatonia\Last Fair Deal Gone Down>dir "/p"
 Volume in drive C has no label.
 Volume Serial Number is 0C80-479F

 Directory of C:\

File Not Found
=========The end of the citation================

When I use _dir /p_ everything is OK.

=========Beginning of the citation==============
C:\...y Music\Katatonia\Last Fair Deal Gone Down>dir /p
 Volume in drive C has no label.
 Volume Serial Number is 0C80-479F

 Directory of C:\Documents and Settings\rc\My Documents\My
Music\Katatonia\Last Fair Deal Gone Down

06.07.2003  09:42    <DIR>          .
06.07.2003  09:42    <DIR>          ..
05.07.2003  10:17         1 801 345 Katatonia[-+mark+-]Last Fair Deal Gone
Down[-+mark+-]Chrome[-+m
ark+-]2[-+mark+-]2001[-+mark+-]Metal.ogg
06.07.2003  09:25         1 577 448 Katatonia[-+mark+-]Last Fair Deal Gone
Down[-+mark+-]Clean Toda
y[-+mark+-]7[-+mark+-]2001[-+mark+-]Metal.ogg
05.07.2003  10:19         1 921 208 Katatonia[-+mark+-]Last Fair Deal Gone
Down[-+mark+-]Disposessi
on[-+mark+-]1[-+mark+-]2001[-+mark+-]Metal.ogg
06.07.2003  09:27         1 972 274 Katatonia[-+mark+-]Last Fair Deal Gone
Down[-+mark+-]Don`t Tell
 A Soul[-+mark+-]11[-+mark+-]2001[-+mark+-]Metal.ogg
06.07.2003  09:32         2 007 636 Katatonia[-+mark+-]Last Fair Deal Gone
Down[-+mark+-]I Transpir
e[-+mark+-]5[-+mark+-]2001[-+mark+-]Metal.ogg
06.07.2003  09:33         1 269 293 Katatonia[-+mark+-]Last Fair Deal Gone
Down[-+mark+-]Passing Bi
rd[-+mark+-]9[-+mark+-]2001[-+mark+-]Metal.ogg
06.07.2003  09:35         1 343 946 Katatonia[-+mark+-]Last Fair Deal Gone
Down[-+mark+-]Sweet Nurs
e[-+mark+-]10[-+mark+-]2001[-+mark+-]Metal.ogg
05.07.2003  10:20         1 180 590 Katatonia[-+mark+-]Last Fair Deal Gone
Down[-+mark+-]Teargas[-+
mark+-]4[-+mark+-]2001[-+mark+-]Metal.ogg
06.07.2003  09:36         1 845 629 Katatonia[-+mark+-]Last Fair Deal Gone D
own[-+mark+-]The Future
 Of Speech[-+mark+-]8[-+mark+-]2001[-+mark+-]Metal.ogg
06.07.2003  09:37         1 399 310 Katatonia[-+mark+-]Last Fair Deal Gone
Down[-+mark+-]Tonight`s
Music[-+mark+-]6[-+mark+-]2001[-+mark+-]Metal.ogg
05.07.2003  10:21           914 480 Katatonia[-+mark+-]Last Fair Deal Gone
Down[-+mark+-]We Must Bu
ry You[-+mark+-]3[-+mark+-]2001[-+mark+-]Metal.ogg
              11 File(s)     17 233 159 bytes
               2 Dir(s)  14 596 743 168 bytes free
=========The end of the citation================

So, why _dir /p_ and _dir "/p"_ work not identically? Whereas _ren 1 2_ and
_ren "1" "2"_ work identically.

_The module:_
=========Beginning of the citation==============
from os import system

#example cmd='copy',args=['c:\\1.txt','1-2 3.txt']
#= os.system('copy' + ' \"' + 'c:\\1.txt' + '\"' + ' \"' + 'c:\\1.txt')
#=copy "c:\1.txt" "1-2 3.txt"
def myossystem(cmd,args=[]):
    for i in args:
        cmd=cmd+' \"'+i+'\"'
    system(cmd)

if __name__ == '__main__':
    myossystem('dir', ['/p'])

    #while 1:pass
=========The end of the citation================

With best regards, Egor Bolonev.  E-mail: ebolonev at rol.ru [ru eo en]




From kevin at cazabon.com  Mon Jul 28 15:13:39 2003
From: kevin at cazabon.com (Kevin Cazabon)
Date: 28 Jul 2003 12:13:39 -0700
Subject: freeze or something else for stand-alone-bins
References: <f0c1dfd.0307280529.6a145ab5@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <5a4226f0.0307281113.76a67f14@posting.google.com>

Try distutils -> py2exe

very simple, works great.  Tons of documentation available... see: 
http://sourceforge.net/projects/py2exe/


Kevin.

ffrederik at gmx.de (Frederik) wrote in message news:<f0c1dfd.0307280529.6a145ab5 at posting.google.com>...
> Hello,
> 
> in Python 2.2.2 on Windows I cant find the freeze.py program anymore.
> On my Linux-machine it?s still in tools - examples. Where can I find
> it? Or can you recommend me anything else for creating
> stand-alone-binaries?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Frederik



From garabik-news-2002-02 at kassiopeia.juls.savba.sk  Tue Jul  1 11:14:40 2003
From: garabik-news-2002-02 at kassiopeia.juls.savba.sk (Radovan Garabik)
Date: 1 Jul 2003 15:14:40 GMT
Subject: remove special characters from line
References: <3f01a27d$0$43847$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net>
Message-ID: <bds8h0$vuo23$1@ID-89407.news.dfncis.de>

Chris Rennert <Chris.Rennert at mdi-oshkosh.com> wrote:
> Hello all,
> 
> If I have a line like this
> 
> ?blah blah blah blah blah
> 
> I know I could do a slice like this [1:] to pull everything but the special
> character, but what if I have several lines in a file.
> I am not sure how I would detect a special character like that.  I would
> just like to pull everything from those lines (and the special character
> always appears as the first character, but not on every line) except for the
> special characters.
> I hope I have enough detail for someone to help me.
> 
> Thanks in advance,
> 

import unicodedata
def is_special(ch):
    return unicodedata.category(ch)[0]!='L'

for i in file('filename', 'U'):
    line = unicode(i, 'utf-8') # or your encoding
    if is_special(line[0]):
        line = line[1:]

or something. Depends on your definiton of "special" :-)
    

-- 
 -----------------------------------------------------------
| Radovan Garab?k http://melkor.dnp.fmph.uniba.sk/~garabik/ |
| __..--^^^--..__    garabik @ kassiopeia.juls.savba.sk     |
 -----------------------------------------------------------
Antivirus alert: file .signature infected by signature virus.
Hi! I'm a signature virus! Copy me into your signature file to help me spread!



From bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au  Tue Jul  8 19:45:34 2003
From: bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 23:45:34 GMT
Subject: start script automatically
References: <bee2dg$8q3$1@news.uni-kl.de>
Message-ID: <slrnbgmls4.6fc.bignose-hates-spam@zeus.zipworld.com.au>

On Tue, 08 Jul 2003 11:17:37 +0200, Tom wrote:
> I have a problem because I don't know how to start my script 
> automatically after a special event happens.

You have two options:

  - Have the process causing the event, also cause the script to run.
    It's in the best position to know when the script should be run,
    after all, since it created the event.

  - Have a separate process watching for the event, which can then run
    the script reactively.  This can either be a scheduled event, if the
    frequency is low (every few minutes or longer), or a
    continuously-running process (also known as a daemon on Unix).

Which you prefer is dependent on how much you consider the two stages to
be linked together.  If they are conceptually part of the same "event",
then the first option is preferable.  If the two steps are conceptually
separate, keeping the processes separate may be preferable since you are
not then committed to running them always in sequence.

-- 
 \                "Too many Indians spoil the golden egg."  -- Sir Joh |
  `\                                                   Bjelke-Petersen |
_o__)                                                                  |
http://bignose.squidly.org/ 9CFE12B0 791A4267 887F520C B7AC2E51 BD41714B



From skip at pobox.com  Mon Jul 28 22:10:27 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 21:10:27 -0500
Subject: Debugging Python ?
In-Reply-To: <ef72fb2b.0307281449.6b144be7@posting.google.com>
References: <mailman.1059409013.10134.python-list@python.org>
        <vian1bbfkogpa1@news.supernews.com>
        <ef72fb2b.0307281449.6b144be7@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <16165.55187.319833.994651@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    Pedro> And I was just wondering if it's legal to define a "print"
    Pedro> function...  isn't print a keyword ?

You're right.  You'd need it to be Print or print_ or something similar.

Skip





From pythonguy at Hotpop.com  Tue Jul 29 08:42:26 2003
From: pythonguy at Hotpop.com (Anand Pillai)
Date: 29 Jul 2003 05:42:26 -0700
Subject: How to get success/failure in case of thread
References: <20030728175542.A23857@cs.unipune.ernet.in> <16165.10847.483917.787182@montanaro.dyndns.org> <mailman.1059467622.12587.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <84fc4588.0307290442.7c203e35@posting.google.com>

Aahz has given you the solution in his post. Either follow
it by setting an instance in your Thread derived object and
retrieve it by a 'get' method. Otherwise put the result in
a Queue and 'get' it from there as suggested by Skip.

 You cannot go forward much if you use the methods in the
'thread' module since they dont give you the fine control you
need.

 If code is what you want, here is a brief pseudo code
for the first solution. I am typing it online, so 
the indentation is bad. Dont try to run this anyway :-)

class mythread(threading.Thread):

    def __init__(self, name):
        threading.Thread.__init__(self, None, None, name)
        self._res = 0  # return value storage

    def run(self):
        """ Run this thread """
        self._res = self.doMyWork()

    def doMyWork(self):
        """ Do my work (return an integer) """
        # Add your thread's main code here
        ...
        ...        
        ...
        return val

    def getResult(self):
        """ Return the result of the thread execution """
        return self._res

     
A client of this thread object can always get the result of the
thread's work by calling the getResult() method, i.e before he
deletes the thread's object.

class threadClient:

      def __init__(self):
          ...
      
      def myop(self):
          t = mythread('Worker')
          t.start()
          t.join() # Block till thread finishes
          
          ret = t.getResult()
          # Take action based on 'ret' value

The Queue implementation is similar but only that you wont have
the getResult() method in the thread class but in the 'Queue' derived
class.

HTH.

~Anand


vivek at cs.unipune.ernet.in wrote in message news:<mailman.1059467622.12587.python-list at python.org>...
> On Mon, Jul 28, 2003 at 08:51:27AM -0500, Skip Montanaro wrote:
> > 
> >     vivek>   import thread
> >     vivek>   thread.start_new_thread(my_func,(args,))
> > 
> >     vivek> here my_func will return true/1 on success and false/0 on
> >     vivek> failure. How can I check whether the function failed/succeeded
> >     vivek> ???
> > 
> > Have the function (or a wrapper function) put() the return value on a Queue
> > object, then get() it from there.
> >
> 
> THX a lot..
> 
> But I think it will not work in case if I want to return some value from the 
> function. 
> 
> Like currently I am trying to implement three tier application using python.
> 
> I mean a web server that will serve the http request, depending on the request
> it will create an XML string and will pass it to another tier running 
> XMLRPCServer. On this tier the XML string will be parsed and will take actions 
> accordingly ( like insertion in database etc.) Now I want the SimpleXMLRPCServer
> to create a new thread for the request that will process the particular request
> and will return the success/failure message. 
> 
> How can I do that with the help of queue object?? 
> 
> TIA and kind Regards
> Vivek Kumar



From intentionally at blank.co.uk  Mon Jul 14 19:22:15 2003
From: intentionally at blank.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 00:22:15 +0100
Subject: anything like C++ references?
References: <000301c348c7$3c501980$21795418@dell1700> <iqm2hvs77lhe1m71v9b579070khbf0uv0a@4ax.com> <berqqd$ad5$1@panix3.panix.com> <brs2hv8edfv0d1fch9mha8otuulajnkh0g@4ax.com> <bes0ps$l6$1@panix3.panix.com> <qi13hv4s21i8mtr2e600jumm54hqs7tppu@4ax.com> <mailman.1058125699.26133.python-list@python.org> <sag3hv4vf884ed7ouu5cv8ofnopp9j1t12@4ax.com> <f0f51c80.0307132003.264b6894@posting.google.com> <7dc4hvslh7a8fk9p6cvsfqa1c8d44rmmnv@4ax.com> <f0f51c80.0307140649.61cc1fe2@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <41e6hvcl2q5bdjqlp30t1gfq42j2tgo4u4@4ax.com>

On 14 Jul 2003 11:35:57 -0700, owski at hotmail.com (Adam Ruth) wrote:

>Stephen Horne <intentionally at blank.co.uk> wrote in message news:<7dc4hvslh7a8fk9p6cvsfqa1c8d44rmmnv at 4ax.com>...
>> On 13 Jul 2003 21:03:59 -0700, owski at hotmail.com (Adam Ruth) wrote:
>> 
>
>> C++ has precisely one type of variable. That variable is a placeholder
>> for a value of a datatype which is specified in the declaration. The
>> datatype may be a pointer datatype, but so what? Pointer datatypes are
>> not treated any differently than other datatype except that they, like
>> all datatypes, they have their own set of functionality.
>
>Granted.  Pointers are no different than other data types, but they
>are typically used for operations that are semantically very different
>than other datatypes are used for.  In that sense, they are, at a high
>level, different data types.

A different data type is nothing special. Mathematics has the concept
of abstract data types. That's the point. There's no need to invent
different kinds of variable, only different types of data. The fact
that C and C++ variables are restricted in the set of values they can
bind to (ie those with a particular data type) is not a problem.

>It's like how c programming is taught has having pass by reference and
>pass by value, when there is only pass by value at the implementation
>level.  Pass by reference is a concept added on top of the language.

No. C programmers always pass by value. Sometimes that value is a
pointer.

Pascal programmers sometimes pass by reference. They do so explicitly,
however - using the keyword 'var'. There is a big difference between
*choosing* to have variables bound to an object, and having it happen
automatically whether you want it or not.

>> C++ references are tellingly also called self-dereferencing pointers.
>> They are not a distinct concept - they are syntactic sugar. I suspect
>> they mainly arise out of the modern desire to disguise pointers and
>> fantasize that they're not there, though they certainly work very well
>> in certain contexts.
>
>Syntactic sugar or no, they still behave differently than other
>datatypes and are therefore not consistent... IMHO.

They behave exactly like pointers. You just use different notation to
get that behaviour. That is what makes them syntactic sugar.

>> Funny thing. When I use algebra, the variables I define don't end up
>> referring to different values, functions or whatever unless I
>> explicitly redefine them. When I write a definition on one piece of
>> paper, the things I wrote earlier on another sheet don't change.
>> 
>> Seems to me that the math equivalent of assignment (defining named
>> things) works very much like the 'static language definitions' as you
>> put it.
>
>The devil is in the details.  Math assignment is static assignment is
>dynamic assignment.  They really are all the same thing at a high
>level, but it's the implementation and the subtleties that make them
>vary.

Not true. Maths has the concept of an algorithm, and it has the
concept of assignment.

In maths, a variable binds to a value. In Python, a variable binds to
an object in a way that does no correctly implement binding to a value
unless the object happens to be immutable.




From tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk  Fri Jul 18 03:52:25 2003
From: tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk (Tim Golden)
Date: 18 Jul 2003 00:52:25 -0700
Subject: ps in windows
References: <3F1720EF.DCA2AD12@juno.com>
Message-ID: <8360efcd.0307172352.34ca0e28@posting.google.com>

Jeff Sandys <sandysj at juno.com> wrote in message 
> I want the Linux PC running a cron job to query the Windows PCs to find
> out what programs they are running.

Doubtless there are several possibilities. Personally, I'd use WMI on
the windows boxes (cf http://tgolden.sc.sabren.com/python/wmi.html)
and either Pyro (http://pyro.sf.net) or xml-rpc
(http://www.pythonware.com/products/xmlrpc/index.htm) at either end to
communicate from-to.

TJG



From Mark.Harris at standardregister.com  Fri Jul 25 11:03:28 2003
From: Mark.Harris at standardregister.com (Harris, Mark W. (DAY))
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 11:03:28 -0400
Subject: Installation Module
Message-ID: <A56D03CE79745148920BF7A7F2963D1D0CC58FE7@ohdaytoxch04.us.src.lan>

I recently acquired support for some scripts that are installed using an install script which imports the "installutils" module.  I can't seem to find this module anywhere.  Anyone know if this still exists?  Is it deprecated, name changed, replaced by something else.

--Mark





From claird at lairds.com  Wed Jul  9 00:15:48 2003
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 04:15:48 -0000
Subject: Tkinter window
References: <bee54v$nh8$1@stargate1.inet.it>
Message-ID: <vgn5nkqv4qauf9@corp.supernews.com>

In article <bee54v$nh8$1 at stargate1.inet.it>, furliz  <furliz at libero.it> wrote:
>Learning Python, I'm making some exercise of little GUI application with 
>Tkinter. I'd like to know if is it possible to customize the little 'Tk' 
>icon on the top-left corner of the main window ( Tkinter.Tk() ).
>
>Thanks to evryone who will resolve me this 'big' doubt :))
>

Yes.

I suspect
  win.wm_iconbitmap( "@canvas_icon.xbm" )
(credit Chad Netzer for this example) is the answer you seek.

This is a sufficiently FAQ that we need to make room for it
in the Wiki ...
-- 

Cameron Laird <Cameron at Lairds.com>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
Personal:  http://phaseit.net/claird/home.html



From owski at hotmail.com  Wed Jul 16 14:39:15 2003
From: owski at hotmail.com (Adam Ruth)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 18:39:15 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: anything like C++ references?
References: <plk3hv0s1m2egf4s34jo6vjedk0q8r2mu9@4ax.com>  
	<hflQa.48826$wk6.12216@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net>  
	<rp94hvc8fg6h91oe7ctqq9jn9ku3nlud1k@4ax.com>  
	<f0f51c80.0307150945.3f19e48b@posting.google.com>  
	<qlq8hv8e7a5177o250c2fhvg9hv2lhfa15@4ax.com>  
	<20030715200433927-0600@news.xmission.com>  
	<1058328099.572993@yasure>  
	<20030716081156943-0600@news.xmission.com> 
	<donn-6E63A0.10284316072003@nntp1.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <20030716123907246-0600@news.xmission.com>

In <donn-6E63A0.10284316072003 at nntp1.u.washington.edu> Donn Cave  wrote:
> In article <20030716081156943-0600 at news.xmission.com>,
>  Adam Ruth <owski at hotmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> In <1058328099.572993 at yasure> Donn Cave wrote:
>> > Quoth Adam Ruth <owski at hotmail.com>:
>> > ....
>> >| In Python, there is no situation where "you really can't avoid 
>> >| pointers".  
>> > 
>> > That's trivially true, no such situation can exist because that
>> > Python can't be coded.  I'll repeat an example that I proposed
>> > a couple days ago, though:  user implemented sequences could be
>> > implemented with a single simple indexing function, returning
>> > a pointer/target/whatever;  Python could assign directly to that,
>> > making "seq[i] = x" the same kind of operation as and automatically
>> > symmetrical with "x = seq[i]".
>> > 
>> > It can't be done without pointers, as far as I can see.  You may 
>> > not care if it can be done, but I think you'd agree that "there is 
>> > no situation that I care about where you really can't avoid 
>> > pointers" would be kind of a lame version of your assertion.  	Donn 
>> > Cave, donn at drizzle.com 
>> 
>> I did a quick google search and couldn't find the thread you're 
>> referring to.  Could you summarize it for me? It sounds interesting.  
>> I  do so love the taste of my foot in my mouth.
> 
> http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=1058154004.286325%40yasure&
> output=gp lain

<snip description of getitem/setitem>

> Really I think that's the main point.  There are some useful
> and relevant features that Python doesn't have and will never
> have, and that's OK.  The real limitation of any programming
> language tends to be its external interfaces - if you really
> can't write a decent web browser in FORTRAN-IV, that's probably
> the real reason, not any fundamental limitation of the language.
> That doesn't mean FORTRAN-IV is a good language, it means that
> its badness can't be expressed in terms of fundamental limitations,
> so this question of whether you "really need" something tends to
> make a poor basis for discussion.
> 
>    Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu

You are correct, 'really need' is not much of an argument.  The 
statement I disagreed with was that it was bad to simulate pointers in 
those situations where "you really can't avoid pointers".  I was 
expressing that really aren't any such situations, and that it's even 
worse try to simulate pointers when it's not really necessary.



From jepler at unpythonic.net  Sat Jul 19 23:15:20 2003
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 22:15:20 -0500
Subject: Calling tcl from python and viceversa
In-Reply-To: <fbf8d8f2.0307191605.268f0b04@posting.google.com>
References: <453d10b2.0307190828.3c576f15@posting.google.com> <fbf8d8f2.0307191605.268f0b04@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20030720031516.GA19019@unpythonic.net>

You can convert your code so that it runs from callbacks
(after/after_idle), or so that it calls the Tk event handler at reasonable
intervals.  The first approach means greatly changing your code (though
you may be able to abuse generator functions here), and the second
approach means that a few Tk things will interact badly with your fake
mainloop (tk_wait).  Threading is another possibility, but it's
problematic with Tk because you must make sure all Tk calls happen in
only one thread (the main thread, I think; or maybe the thread that
created the Tk instance)

Jeff




From daniel.dittmar at sap.com  Tue Jul 22 12:09:17 2003
From: daniel.dittmar at sap.com (Daniel Dittmar)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 18:09:17 +0200
Subject: recognizing empty iterators
References: <2259b0e2.0307210626.11a1bbf1@posting.google.com> <mailman.1058835583.22488.python-list@python.org> <2259b0e2.0307220744.156c95bf@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bfjnjd$si3$1@news1.wdf.sap-ag.de>

Michele Simionato wrote:
> I wanted to check the output of ifilter or imap; at the end I solved
> my problem in another way, nevertheless I am surprised there is no
> way to check for an empty iterator in current Python, it seems to be
> a quite legitimate question, isn't it?

It would make writing iterators more difficult because you'd have to know
that there is a first element before the first call to .next ().

It shouldn't be too difficult to write an iterator wrapper class that does
exactly what you want (not tested):

class IteratorWrapper:
    def __init__ (self, iterArg):
        iterArg = iter (iterArg)
        try:
            self.firstElement = iterArg.next ()
            self.isEmpty = false
            self.next = self.returnFirstElement
            self.baseIter = iterArg
        except StopIteration:
            self.isEmpty = true
            self.next = self.throwStopIteration

    def returnFirstElement (self):
        self.next = self.baseIter.next
        return self.firstElement

    def throwStopIteration (self):
        throw StopIteration

Daniel






From sdementen at hotmail.com  Wed Jul 23 04:44:17 2003
From: sdementen at hotmail.com (Sebastien de Menten)
Date: 23 Jul 2003 01:44:17 -0700
Subject: profile output for kcachegrind ?
References: <8dad5312.0307220731.5ff69a91@posting.google.com> <mailman.1058891197.18186.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <8dad5312.0307230044.20ea97d3@posting.google.com>

There is documentation on the output of valgrind (i.e. the input of
kcachegrind) at section "output" in
http://developer.kde.org/~sewardj/docs-1.9.5/cg_techdocs.html

For optimal use of kcachegrind, one needs also the "calltree skin" for
valgrind that outputs an augmented file for kcachegrind. But I did not
find any doc on this augmented format...

I think that even without the calltree plugin, kcachegrind could be
used advantageously for profiling python code.

Seb

Neil Smith <nsmith at ilangua.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.1058891197.18186.python-list at python.org>...
> I've been using visualization of profile output as input to develop my 
> first pyGTK application, but if the input format read by kcachegrind was 
> well documented it would be a trivial task to get profile output in the 
> correct format. Do you know whether it is well documented?
> 
> Neil.
> 
> Sebastien de Menten wrote:
> 
> >Hi,
> >
> >I am using the profile module to watch hot spots in a python
> >application.
> >
> >The default output is already useful but has anyone tried to produce
> >output readable by kcachegrind (http://kcachegrind.sourceforge.net/) ?
> >
> >seb
> >  
> >



From bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au  Mon Jul 21 00:20:00 2003
From: bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au (Ben Finney)
Date: 21 Jul 2003 14:10:00 +0950
Subject: Electronic voting with free software
References: <P9DSa.111436$Io.9552373@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <bff6jb$e8goe$1@ID-67890.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <slrnbhma55.si4.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>

On Mon, 21 Jul 2003 00:54:34 +0200, Ulrich Petri wrote:
><snip voting with computers>
> Sorry but why on earth you dont just print that on paper and let
> people make their crosses where they want?

To give benefits that paper ballots can't provide.  E.g. allowing people
to vote over the Internet who can't get to voting booths, removing the
human element of transposing ballots to a database, possibly reducing
double-voting, etc.

The FREE project was developing GNU.FREE software for electronic voting;
development has since halted, but they have a lot of articles resulting
from the development activity:

    <http://www.free-project.org/writings/>

-- 
 \      "People demand freedom of speech to make up for the freedom of |
  `\            thought which they avoid."  -- Soren Aabye Kierkegaard |
_o__)                                                      (1813-1855) |
http://bignose.squidly.org/ 9CFE12B0 791A4267 887F520C B7AC2E51 BD41714B



From dgallion1 at yahoo.com  Tue Jul  8 13:19:23 2003
From: dgallion1 at yahoo.com (Darrell Gallion)
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 10:19:23 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: win32security.LogonUser
In-Reply-To: <3F0AD456.5030901@pa.press.net>
Message-ID: <20030708171923.6788.qmail@web21414.mail.yahoo.com>

Thanks John

That was done with no luck.
Added it to Administrators and Administrator.



__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
http://sbc.yahoo.com




From cookedm+news at physics.mcmaster.ca  Fri Jul 18 00:31:05 2003
From: cookedm+news at physics.mcmaster.ca (David M. Cooke)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 00:31:05 -0400
Subject: Looking For A Wildcard File Name Parser
References: <XdIRa.16609$EZ2.6255@nwrddc01.gnilink.net>
Message-ID: <qnkptk83186.fsf@arbutus.physics.mcmaster.ca>

At some point, YoTuco <not.valid at address.org> wrote:

> I've been looking for a good wildcard file name parser. That is, some module
> in Python or something someone has made that can take a file name with the
> '*' or '?' wildcards in it, parse a list[] and give back the matches.  It
> seems like a common enough task that one would be around?  Or do I just
> have to roll up my sleeves, dig-in and learn RE?

You mean, like the standard module fnmatch?

-- 
|>|\/|<
/--------------------------------------------------------------------------\
|David M. Cooke
|cookedm(at)physics(dot)mcmaster(dot)ca



From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Jul  8 06:59:57 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 06:59:57 -0400
Subject: When is unit-testing bad?
References: <3EEE1210.3004AB45@engcorp.com> <878ys06tcv.fsf_-_@pobox.com>
	 <vf11j7l3f0ku52@news.supernews.com> <87of0pno5s.fsf@titan.staselog.com>
	 <vg40uajdqo3ac4@corp.supernews.com> <bdunoh$1pms$1@biggoron.nerim.net>
	 <87k7azdber.fsf@titan.staselog.com>
	 <jtecgv0t473bk054psja3lep7ped98o5k4@4ax.com> <87of055mqr.fsf@titan.staselog.com>
Message-ID: <3F0AA42D.316BD6D3@engcorp.com>

Edvard Majakari wrote:
> 
> On Sat, 05 Jul 2003, kyle at lakeofburningfire.org wrote:
> 
> > Part I
> > http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/opensource/library/os-puffin.html
> >
> > Part II
> > http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/opensource/library/os-puffin2.html
> 
> Having read part I, I really have have to say it looks quite nice tool. I
> guess it's no use to starting my own - also, I'm more convinced now that I
> should do the testing at lower layers, making presentation layer 'thin'
> enough so that there's no need to test it thoroughly. Thanks for the links.

A refinement of the above statement: make the presentation layer
"thin" enough that you need to test it thoroughly only *once*.  Also
make it thin enough that you very rarely if ever have to make changes 
to it, thereby making such even a manual test adequate.

You shouldn't _not_ test something... but it's okay sometimes to avoid
the writing fully automated tests, and this is a good example of when.

-Peter



From tcronj at ananzi.co.za  Sat Jul 12 08:32:36 2003
From: tcronj at ananzi.co.za (Tertius)
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 14:32:36 +0200
Subject: tk prerequisite
Message-ID: <3f0fffc0$0$235@hades.is.co.za>

Installing tkinter 2.2.3 on RH9 the following message displayed


[root at host 223]# rpm -i tkinter-2.2.3-26.i386.rpm
warning: tkinter-2.2.3-26.i386.rpm: V3 DSA signature: NOKEY, key ID fd71b297
error: Failed dependencies:
         libtcl8.3.so is needed by tkinter-2.2.3-26
         libtix8.1.8.3.so is needed by tkinter-2.2.3-26
         libtk8.3.so is needed by tkinter-2.2.3-26


Question:

Must it be 8.3 or will 8.4 also do ?

TIA
Tertius




From P at draigBrady.com  Wed Jul  2 11:01:35 2003
From: P at draigBrady.com (P at draigBrady.com)
Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 16:01:35 +0100
Subject: i18n worries
Message-ID: <DyCMa.21041$pK2.31741@news.indigo.ie>

Hi,

I had a quick look at gettext.py on 2.2.2
and noticed the new "install" interface
that is more efficient than the "gettext" interface.
Fair enough, but I noticed that the
glibc bindtextdomain etc. functions are
not called (even for the python equivalent functions).
So does that mean that libraries gettext calls
(for e.g. libc.mo) will be ignored for python programs?

Also I'm wondering is there anything
special I need to do to apply i18n to
glade files (using libglade).

cheers,
P?draig.




From paul_rudin at scientia.com  Mon Jul  7 05:42:59 2003
From: paul_rudin at scientia.com (Paul Rudin)
Date: 07 Jul 2003 10:42:59 +0100
Subject: anything new on the ternary operator?
References: <mailman.1057533670.9800.python-list@python.org> <beae42$d01$1@panix2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <u8yrak6zg.fsf@scientia.com>

>>>>> "Aahz" == Aahz  <aahz at pythoncraft.com> writes:

    > Guido made clear before the vote that only a clear statement
    > from the community would drive the addition of the ternary
    > operator.  Given that the vote did not present a clear result,
    > he did what he said he'd do.  How's that a prbolem?  

I don't know the details of this process; but personally I think a
ternary operator would be a very good thing - and don't care about the
syntax too much. Maybe the right think to vote on was simply a yes/no
to "Do you want a ternary operator?". 

Maybe the problem is perhaps that disagreement over the competing
syntactical suggestions obscures the fact that a majority would prefer
to see some ternary operator rather than none?



From mickel at csc.fi  Wed Jul  2 08:34:30 2003
From: mickel at csc.fi (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Mickel_Gr=F6nroos?=)
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 15:34:30 +0300 (EEST)
Subject: How do I get the fractions of the visible part of a canvas?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0307021049020.32002-100000@sampo.csc.fi>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0307021533500.32002-100000@sampo.csc.fi>

Thanks Fredrik and Eric, it works!

/Mickel

--
Mickel Gr?nroos, application specialist, linguistics, Research support, CSC
PL 405 (Tekniikantie 15 a D), 02101 Espoo, Finland, phone +358-9-4572237
CSC is the Finnish IT center for science, www.csc.fi





From BartolomeSintes at ono.com  Sun Jul 20 16:24:29 2003
From: BartolomeSintes at ono.com (Bartolomé Sintes Marco)
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 20:24:29 GMT
Subject: non-ASCII characters IDLE 1.0 rc1 bugs
References: <RztSa.28234$FN3.2363410@news.ono.com> <mailman.1058718271.2390.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1UCSa.28305$FN3.2372949@news.ono.com>

Bug filled.





From cookedm+news at physics.mcmaster.ca  Mon Jul 21 16:23:41 2003
From: cookedm+news at physics.mcmaster.ca (David M. Cooke)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 16:23:41 -0400
Subject: distutils.core not in Debian python2.2 package
References: <pfjSa.730$zu1.8428@reggie.win.bright.net> <qnkbrvq2glk.fsf@arbutus.physics.mcmaster.ca>
 <bAuSa.747$zu1.8518@reggie.win.bright.net>
 <qnk7k6c37au.fsf@arbutus.physics.mcmaster.ca>
 <N_OSa.18402$sj6.370889@tornado.fastwebnet.it>
Message-ID: <qnk1xwj39yq.fsf@arbutus.physics.mcmaster.ca>

At some point, Alessio Pace <puccio_13 at yahoo.it> wrote:

> I wonder why the corresponding package python2.3-dev does not exist..
> No distutils for python2.3 developers? 

?? There is for me
$ apt-cache search python2.3-dev
python2.3-dev - Header files and a static library for Python (v2.3)
$

-- 
|>|\/|<
/--------------------------------------------------------------------------\
|David M. Cooke
|cookedm(at)physics(dot)mcmaster(dot)ca



From hst at empolis.co.uk  Tue Jul  1 12:37:26 2003
From: hst at empolis.co.uk (Harvey Thomas)
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 17:37:26 +0100
Subject: Unicode problem.... as always
Message-ID: <8FC4E7C302A6A64AAD5DB1FA0E825DEB04F4D1@hendrix.empolisuk.com>

Todd Jenista wrote:
> Sent: 01 July 2003 13:20
> To: python-list at python.org
> Subject: Unicode problem.... as always
> 
> 
> I have a parser I am building with python and, unfortunately, people
> have decided to put unicode characters in the files I am parsing.
> The parser seems to have a fit when I search for one \uXXXX symbol,
> and there is another unicode symbol in the file. In this case, a
> search and replace for ? with a ? in the file causes the infamous
> ordinal error.
> My quick-fix, because they have good context, is to change them both
> to "UTF8", and then attempt to replace the UTF8 at the end with the
> original ?. The problem is that I am getting a ?? when I try to
> re-insert using \u00b5 which is the UTF8 code.
> Words of wisdom would be greatly appreciated.
> -- 

I think the root of your problem lies in your remark that "people
have decided to put unicode characters in the files I am parsing".

There is no such thing as a file of Unicode characters. There are, however,
files in unicode encodings (such as UTF-8), which when read 
appropriately via codecs.open functions yield Unicode strings. 
Similarly you can write Unicode files to appropriate encodings.

You don't tell us much about what you want to do, but why don't you just 
read and write files in UTF-8 via the codecs module and do your
manipulations on Unicode strings?

_____________________________________________________________________
This message has been checked for all known viruses by the MessageLabs Virus Scanning Service.




From bokr at oz.net  Mon Jul 28 13:33:16 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 28 Jul 2003 17:33:16 GMT
Subject: floating point range generator
References: <Xns93B0F0F1A58A2cpl19ghumspamgourmet@62.153.159.134> <oA2Oa.30893$C83.2655519@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <7xwue3lbzy.fsf_-_@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <7O%Ua.8994$AO6.2045@nwrdny02.gnilink.net>
Message-ID: <bg3mos$9o5$0@216.39.172.122>

On Mon, 28 Jul 2003 02:22:59 GMT, Carl Banks <imbosol at aerojockey.com> wrote:
[...]
>
>The most robust way to handle this is to iterpolate, i.e., instead of
>passing start, stop, and step, pass start, stop, and n_intervals:
>
>   def interiter(start, stop, n_intervals):
>       diff = stop - start
>       for i in xrange(n_intervals+1):
>           yield start + (i*diff)/n_intervals
>

To guarantee the exact end points, maybe:

    def interiter(start, stop, n_intervals):
	fn=float(n_intervals)
        for i in xrange(n_intervals+1):
            yield ((n_intervals-i)/fn)*start + (i/fn)*stop 
 
but shouldn't that be xrange(n_intervals) and leave out
the final point (thus exact but invisible ;-).

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl  Tue Jul  8 13:55:49 2003
From: irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 19:55:49 +0200
Subject: Apache mod_python and Sessions
In-Reply-To: <20030708093008.651035f7.scpusenet@werbung.schabi.de>
References: <20030704131617.4b1a73ca.scpusenet@werbung.schabi.de>	<20030707091923.1f12f872.scpusenet@werbung.schabi.de>	<3f09b2cf$0$49098$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl> <20030708093008.651035f7.scpusenet@werbung.schabi.de>
Message-ID: <3f0b05a5$0$49102$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

Markus Schaber wrote:

> The script will have a very low usage (maybe about ten sessions a month).
> And it spends lots of time doing ldap database queries, so the starting
> overhead doesn't hurt so much.

This clears it all up. No further comments ;-)

--Irmen




From lfw at airmail.net  Tue Jul  8 23:08:00 2003
From: lfw at airmail.net (Larry__Weiss)
Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 22:08:00 -0500
Subject: Collective memory (was: Good code patterns in Python)
References: <mailman.1057083728.8224.python-list@python.org> <vg88va53uha8e@corp.supernews.com> <3F09F136.6060000@srv.net> <rfrpt-ah3.ln1@beastie.ix.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <3F0B8710.1C1DBBDD@airmail.net>

Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
> (we had an instructor at my College who punched a C in column 80 as a
> standard practice -- he could flip the card around to document changes
> -- it would be treated as a comment by the compiler, and a listing
> would show the text right-to-left)
> 

For some forms of job control you could create a card that had two
choices punched starting from each end of the card.   You could simply
flip the card to invert the selection.

I even remember once coding and using a text-editor macro to do something
similar with the current line of text.



From gumuz at looze.net  Wed Jul 30 11:38:42 2003
From: gumuz at looze.net (Guyon Morée)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 17:38:42 +0200
Subject: PyXPCom
Message-ID: <3f27e5a8$0$13798$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net>

I recently found out about XPCom and it's python bindings and it sounded
very promising. Then I found out that the source of this information was
pretty old. I was wondering what the status is currently. I couldn't find
any documentation or binaries for the python interface.


has anyone examples, docs, binaries, urls, etc????





From guettler at thomas-guettler.de  Fri Jul 18 08:59:30 2003
From: guettler at thomas-guettler.de (Thomas =?ISO-8859-15?Q?G=FCttler?=)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 14:59:30 +0200
Subject: feature request: a better str.endswith
References: <2259b0e2.0307180401.5dae02f2@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bf8qvi$cddpk$2@ID-63505.news.uni-berlin.de>

Michele Simionato wrote:

> I often feel the need to extend  the string method ".endswith" to tuple
> arguments, in such a way to automatically check for multiple endings.
> For instance, here is a typical use case:
> 
> if filename.endswith(('.jpg','.jpeg','.gif','.png')):
>     print "This is a valid image file"
> 
> Currently this is not valid Python and I must use the ugly
> 
> if filename.endswith('.jpg') or filename.endswith('.jpeg') \
>    or filename.endswith('.gif') or filename.endswith('.png'):
>     print "This is a valid image file"
> 
> Of course a direct implementation is quite easy:
> 
> import sys
> 
> class Str(str):
>     def endswith(self,suffix,start=0,end=sys.maxint):#not sure about
>     sys.maxint
>         endswith=super(Str,self).endswith
>         if isinstance(suffix,tuple):
>             return sum([endswith(s,start,end) for s in suffix]) # multi-or
>         return endswith(suffix,start,end)
> 
> if Str(filename).endswith(('.jpg','.jpeg','.gif','.png')):
>     print "This is a valid image file"
> 
> nevertheless I think this kind of checking is quite common and it would be
> worth to have it in standard Python.

Hi,

I like this feature request.

if the argument to endswith is not a string,
it should try to treat the argument as a list or tuple.

 thomas





From akaihola at ambi-spam-me-not-tone.com  Mon Jul 21 12:40:01 2003
From: akaihola at ambi-spam-me-not-tone.com (Antti Kaihola)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 19:40:01 +0300
Subject: Flat file to associative array.
In-Reply-To: <pan.2003.07.21.05.02.47.924820@antispam.com>
References: <pan.2003.07.21.05.02.47.924820@antispam.com>
Message-ID: <KEUSa.292$HC4.96@reader1.news.jippii.net>

#!/usr/bin/env python

def line2dict(line, fieldnames, sep='|'):
     """
     Convert a separated text line to a dictionary
     with the given field names as keys
     """
     d = {}
     for fieldname, value in zip(fieldnames, line.split(sep)):
         d[fieldname] = value
     return d

drinkfields = 'drinktype', 'producer', 'brand', 'price'
def drinkline2dict(line):
     """
     Convert a | -separated and linefeed-terminated text line
     to a dictionary
     """
     return line2dict(line.rstrip(), drinkfields, '|')

products = map(drinkline2dict, file('products.txt').readlines())
from pprint import pprint
pprint(products)




From kamikaze at kuoi.asui.uidaho.edu  Tue Jul  1 10:20:17 2003
From: kamikaze at kuoi.asui.uidaho.edu (Mark 'Kamikaze' Hughes)
Date: 1 Jul 2003 14:20:17 GMT
Subject: does lack of type declarations make Python unsafe?
References: <bresev47pva1a27odt1nlouppj27vh2pe0@4ax.com> <yQzHa.188017$g92.3811402@news2.tin.it> <qgiuev87lhuagv5fs1g5671id61p0mej7k@4ax.com> <a5WHa.197736$g92.4021282@news2.tin.it> <ur85r1mz1.fsf@boost-consulting.com> <c9%Ha.200753$g92.4077297@news2.tin.it> <uy8zy4vzs.fsf@boost-consulting.com> <pNfIa.206219$g92.4232233@news2.tin.it> <slrnbft9b1.fmd.kamikaze@kuoi.asui.uidaho.edu> <bdmr66$j5n$1@news.hccnet.nl> <slrnbfuu49.1vcv.kamikaze@kuoi.asui.uidaho.edu> <bdro2o$cfk$1@news.hccnet.nl>
Message-ID: <slrnbg362r.2r2d.kamikaze@kuoi.asui.uidaho.edu>

Tue, 01 Jul 2003 12:30:58 +0200, Anton Vredegoor <anton at vredegoor.doge.nl>:
> kamikaze at kuoi.asui.uidaho.edu (Mark 'Kamikaze' Hughes) wrote:
><discussing Java collections>
>>> Since int doesn't derive from object, this will probably
>>> fail:
>>> c.add(1)
>>  This is true, but it's completely unimportant.  It's annoying at
>>times, but it's an optimization for efficiency; there are good reasons
>>why Java is several times faster than Python at most tasks.  You can use
>>the primitive wrapper classes:
>>c.add( new Integer(1) );
> Interesting, first define it as unimportant and next focus un Java's
> strong points.

  Stop.  This is not a high school debate class.  You knew nothing about
Java but felt the pathological need to attack it with claims you found
on google.  Despite your cretinous behavior, I politely explained the
Java idiom and motivation for dealing with primitives differently.
You're just being an ass here.

 <http://kuoi.asui.uidaho.edu/~kamikaze/documents/plonk.html>

-- 
 <a href="http://kuoi.asui.uidaho.edu/~kamikaze/"> Mark Hughes </a>
"We remain convinced that this is the best defensive posture to adopt in
order to minimize casualties when the Great Old Ones return from beyond
the stars to eat our brains." -Charlie Stross, _The Concrete Jungle_



From hanzspam at yahoo.com.au  Wed Jul  2 15:24:59 2003
From: hanzspam at yahoo.com.au (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Hannu_Kankaanp=E4=E4?=)
Date: 2 Jul 2003 12:24:59 -0700
Subject: undo tab
References: <3F02E7D5.4060401@gmx.net> <bduq2n$114jav$1@ID-67890.news.dfncis.de> <3F02ECF0.105@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <840592e1.0307021124.32757214@posting.google.com>

Tom <llafba at gmx.net> wrote in message news:<3F02ECF0.105 at gmx.net>...
> Hi,
> 
> it doesn't work with any editor that I tried. The one I use on a regular 
> basis is the standard python IDLE. Sometimes I also use the editor of 
> pythonwin and Boa-Constructor.
> 
> Maybe you can just give me a general hint how you do it and which editor 
> you use. That would probably also help.
> 
> Thank you, Tom.

I had to change IDLE a bit for it to work. In Python path, go to
Tools/idle and edit AutoIndent.py. Find windows_keydefs or unix_keydefs
depending on your platform and change "<<dedent-region>>"-line to:

'<<dedent-region>>': ['<Shift-Key-Tab>'],



From stacom at stacom-software.de  Fri Jul 25 09:22:38 2003
From: stacom at stacom-software.de (Alexander Eisenhuth)
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 15:22:38 +0200
Subject: data conversion question (binary string to 'real string')
In-Reply-To: <R2aUa.4$gZ.55@news.oracle.com>
References: <bfr9h7$i62j8$1@ID-155280.news.uni-berlin.de> <R2aUa.4$gZ.55@news.oracle.com>
Message-ID: <bfravg$hbmdc$3@ID-155280.news.uni-berlin.de>

Manish Jethani wrote:
> Alexander Eisenhuth wrote:
> 
> 
>>maby I don't see the forest because of all that trees, but :
> 
> 
> Maybe I don't understand your question...
> 
> 
>>from struct import *
>>
>>
>># how can I convert
>>f = float(0.5)
>>
>># with
>>bin_str =  pack('!f', 0.5)
>>
>># now bin_str is '?\x00\x00\x00'
>>
>>
>># to "3F000000" ?????
> 
> 
> ???????????????
> What is your question?
> 
> -Manish
> 
Sorry ...

This two lines converts 0.5 to a string in binary
representation

>>>from struct import *
>>>bin_str =  pack('!f', 0.5)

now bin_str is '?\x00\x00\x00', wich is the representation
of 0.5 in the memory. I need now to convert this binary
string to "3F000000", where '3F' is the hex value of the '?'
in ascii - table.

Any ideas ??

Thaks
Alexander





From intentionally at blank.co.uk  Tue Jul 15 17:14:20 2003
From: intentionally at blank.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 22:14:20 +0100
Subject: anything like C++ references?
References: <b8c3hvsesjoumiboobml3nsnajtha99mp1@4ax.com> <mailman.1058129901.28248.python-list@python.org> <plk3hv0s1m2egf4s34jo6vjedk0q8r2mu9@4ax.com> <m365m6ul5c.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <mailman.1058145500.19181.python-list@python.org> <e464hvcq48q3240ecfcs6jqhqf616q7v1a@4ax.com> <3F1256C0.4BDC816F@alcyone.com> <vdl6hvckre5pms4n8bcn0nf1ma09ikse0f@4ax.com> <bf1ocu$jeq$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <i5r8hvk57sjpagf2bnttov2h4qohg0pjq2@4ax.com>

On 15 Jul 2003 20:32:30 GMT, bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) wrote:

>On Tue, 15 Jul 2003 02:40:27 +0100, Stephen Horne <intentionally at blank.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 14 Jul 2003 00:07:44 -0700, Erik Max Francis <max at alcyone.com>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>Stephen Horne wrote:
>>>
>>>> Imagine, for instance, changing all assignments and other 'copying' to
>>>> use a copy-on-write system. Then add a pointer type and a 'newcopyof'
>>>> operator. And nick the C-style prefix '*' for dereferencing and add
>>>> '&' as a 'make a pointer to this object' operator (absolutely NOT a
>>>> physical memory address).
>>>
>>>The problem is that this misses the point that Python is not C++.  You
>>>shouldn't try grafting syntaxes and approaches that make Python look
>>>more like C++, you should be learning to use Python on its own merits.
>>
>>Not true.
>>
>>If you eliminate all violations of the idea of variables bound to
>>values (basically the whole point of my thread), then mutable
>>containers cannot achieve the same thing.
>>
>>If a copy-on-write scheme is added to Python, you'd get the following
>>results from using mutable containers...
>>
>>>>> a = [1, 2, 3]
>>>>> b = a
>>>>> b[2] = 4
>>>>> a
>>[1, 2, 3]
>>>>> b
>>[1, 2, 4]
>>
>Yes, but it would be hugely inefficient for the case where, e.g., you are
>modifying lines read from a 20MB log file. Imagine inducing a 20MB copy
>every time you wanted to delete or modify a line. Now you have to invent
>a way to program around what can be done very conveniently and efficiently
>thanks to Python's semantics.

What makes you say that!

Copies are only made when they are needed. The lazy copy optimisation,
in other words, still exists.

Delete or modify one string in a list of strings, and the same stuff
would happen as happens now. Unless, perhaps somewhere you don't know
about, the caller of your function who passed that list in to you has
a separate reference they expect to stay unchanged. In that case, the
first changed string triggers a copy of the list - but as the list
only contains references to strings, it doesn't trigger copying of all
the strings. The second line changed doesn't require the list to be
modified again because you already have your separate copy.

C++ uses exactly this kind of approach for the std::string class among
others. Copy-on-write is a pretty common transparent implementation
detail in 'heavy' classes, including those written by your everyday
programmers. Does that mean C++ is slower that Python? Of course not!




From hwlgw at hotmail.com  Fri Jul 11 13:17:10 2003
From: hwlgw at hotmail.com (Will Stuyvesant)
Date: 11 Jul 2003 10:17:10 -0700
Subject: Using  xml.xpath question.
References: <de5c7cc0.0307101347.2c707bf8@posting.google.com> <23891c90.0307110057.bbe91e3@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <cb035744.0307110917.7459191b@posting.google.com>

> [Paul Boddie]
> ...
> Try this:
> >>> c = xml.xpath.Context.Context(doc)
> >>> c.setNamespaces({"p" : "http://tempuri.org/string"})
> This makes a context and then adds the definition of the prefix for
> the XPath query engine...
> >>> e = xml.xpath.Compile("/p:root/p:child/text()")
> I compile the expression in order to allow the context to be used.
>        ... we have to set up a context first to contain those
> definitions.
> >>> e.evaluate(c)
> [<DOM Text node "Hellpppp">]

A very nice and helpful Paul Boddie in action on c.l.p.

But OMFG!  Here we see why we need a good *high* level XML library in
the Python Standard Library.  The effbot is doing great work with
elementtree at www.effbot.org, but he is doing that all alone.  I
think a good high level XML library should have a very high priority
for Python.

It should be a much higher priority for the core Python developers
than the extensions I have seen lately.  Booleans, bah!  And for
instance, I hate it to make my code unreadable using list
comprehensions and other syntactic sugar; and then later having to
explain it to a C programmer.  "Ha!" she says, "You claimed the Python
language reads like pseudocode!".  Geez.



From adalke at mindspring.com  Sun Jul 20 18:35:21 2003
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 16:35:21 -0600
Subject: Possible use of Python for a voting machine demo project -- your feedback requested
References: <P9DSa.111436$Io.9552373@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <bff56e$8iv$1@slb9.atl.mindspring.net>

Alan Dechert:
> will change.  For example, when the voter selects a president/vice
president
> pair, the background will change; the non-selected pairs will be greyed
> while the selected pair will be highlighted (very brightly -- should light

"greyed" in normal UI parlance means the option is no longer selected.
What happens if someone pressed the wrong button?  How is the correct
selection made?

> 3) When "WRITE-IN CANDIDATE" is selected, a large widow (maybe the full
> screen) will pop up with a QWERTY keyboard in the upper half.  This
keyboard
> will have only three rows with the alpha keys (no punctuation or numbers
> needed except for perhaps the hyphen... no shift, all CAPS).

No apostrophe?  What if I want to vote for "O'Reilly"

> selected.  De-selecting one of the selected candidates reactivates the
> others.

Ahhh, I think I would have been confused by that.

Then again, I get confused at time by the machine I use now.  :)

> 7) The County Commissioner race illustrates how ranked preference voting
> would look.  When the voter selects the first one, the button in the "1"
> column is filled and the text "1st" will appear in the space between the
row
> of buttons and the candidate name.  When the next selection is made, the
> corresponding button in the "2" column is filled and "2nd" appears, and so
> on.  There is a "CLEAR CHOICES" button in case the voter wants to start
> over.

Heh.  I read "CLEAR CHOICES" as a command "the choices are clear".
What about "RESET CHOICES", or an alternate like

  Bill the Cat     [1]  [2]  [3]  [4]
  Snoopy Dog  [1]  [2]  [3]  [4]
  Go Fish         [1]  [2]  [3]  [4]
  Lucy Ricardo [1]  [2]  [3]  [4]
  James Kirk    [1]  [2]  [3]  [4]

and how are writins added to this?

*sigh* .. I know just enough to ask questions and be annoying, but not
enough to know the answers....

> 8) The printout is intended to come from a personal laser printer located
in
> the voting booth.  For the demo, we'll probably use the HP Laserjet 5L.

I approve of the Mercuri system (I think that's what it's called when a
paper ballot is generated from an electronic ballot - the all-electronic one
I use now is scary).  I was just thinking though.  Suppose I wanted to rig
the elections by paying for votes.  If I know the format of the ballot, I
could generate them myself on specially marked paper then give that
to the people who I've payed for the vote, who go through the process
of voting but use the paper I gave them instead of the printout..  Later, I
or my cronies get access to the ballots (eg, "I'm a reporter and I want to
verify the votes") and can see if my special ballots are included, and
reward/punish as appropriate.

Not likely to be a problem in real life, but just something I was
thinking about.

> California ($200 million) and the Help America Vote Act ($3.9 billion) a
lot
> of public funds are being wasted on outrageously expensive hardware that
> will be obsolete in a very few years.

That's for certain.  The tendency to move to higher-tech, more expensive,
and less trustworthy voting machines is scary.

> for conducting elections will be created.  We anticipate having quite a
few
> non-academics involved too.  For example, Roy Saltman is probably the best
> known voting technology expert and he's not an academic.  I'm not an
> academic either.

The only person I've heard of in this field is Rebecca Mercuri, who
I think is an academic.  I've read a lot of RISKS.  :)

> The
> selections will be bar coded in a strip on the left edge.  Probably,
> write-in candidate names will be in a separate bar code.  The printout
will
> list the voter's selections in text that can be easily read by humans and
> scanners.

The phrase "bar code" scares me in that the bar code and the human
readable text may differ.  Why not just have everything in text?

> Blind voters will use the system wearing headphones and using a
> hand held device to register selections.

Isn't that overkill?  I seem to recall that already there are provisions
for people with special needs to have someone in the booth to help.
In addition, how does a blind person do a write-in vote?  Or someone
who is illiterate and hard of hearing?

> So, please let me know what you think about using Python for this demo.
> Also, if you are a Python expert and would like to help as a volunteer
> (we're all volunteers until the project gets funding), please contact me
> ASAP.  We want to have a demo running very soon!  -- within a few weeks.

Python would do this just fine.  There are the various GUI projects, but
this sounds like a good place for pygame.

My caution though is that usability testing for this is deeply hard,
and I would advise against "a few weeks" even for demo prototype
code as you suggest.

                    Andrew
                    dalke at dalkescientific.com





From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sat Jul 19 21:05:56 2003
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 19 Jul 2003 21:05:56 -0400
Subject: properties + types, implementing meta-class desciptors elegantly?
References: <mailman.1058532630.7342.python-list@python.org> <mailman.1058654317.6488.python-list@python.org> <bfcl87$6jb$1@panix1.panix.com> <mailman.1058660069.1164.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bfcptk$1dl$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <mailman.1058660069.1164.python-list at python.org>,
Mike C. Fletcher <mcfletch at rogers.com> wrote:
>Aahz wrote:
>>In article <mailman.1058654317.6488.python-list at python.org>,
>>Mike C. Fletcher <mcfletch at rogers.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>Nope, I'm trying to make meta-classes which have rich properties.  The 
>>>particular project is a plug-in system, where the classes (the 
>>>metaclass-instances) want to have all sorts of rich metadata associated 
>>>with them in a way which meshes with the rest of the system (i.e. using 
>>>a descriptor-based introspection mechanism).
>>
>>
>>Keeping in mind that I'm really not following this discussion all that
>>closely (because metaclasses give me headaches), are you trying to make
>>a *metaclass* that has properties or a *metaclass instance* (i.e. a
>>class) that has properties?
>
>Just the meta-class instances (classes).  Wasn't sufficiently precise in 
>my description, the properties are normally declared in the meta-class, 
>but they are actually properties of the meta-class instances.

Next question: are you also trying to access the properties on class
instances?
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

This is Python.  We don't care much about theory, except where it intersects 
with useful practice.  --Aahz



From maxm at mxm.dk  Thu Jul  3 06:09:17 2003
From: maxm at mxm.dk (Max M)
Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 12:09:17 +0200
Subject: Good code patterns in Python
In-Reply-To: <e37dt-jsp.ln1@newsgate.kjn.lan>
References: <mailman.1057079642.5798.python-list@python.org> <3f027b11$0$97204$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk> <mailman.1057139344.19908.python-list@python.org> <e37dt-jsp.ln1@newsgate.kjn.lan>
Message-ID: <3f040053$0$97160$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>

Theodor Rash wrote:

> (Saw this sig somewhere: 'Comment my code?? Why do you think they call it
> code?')  

My favourite comment of that kind is from Bertrand Meyer, who invented 
Eiffel. I dont remember it exactly, but it goes something like:

"If programmers want to read text, they should buy a cheap novel."

To his defense he was arguing that the code should be documentation in 
itself. Hence programming by contract.

I guess that has been refined now by the tdd camp, where you should be 
able to read what the tested code does by reading the tests.


regards Max M




From hokiegal99 at hotmail.com  Fri Jul 18 08:48:30 2003
From: hokiegal99 at hotmail.com (hokiegal99)
Date: 18 Jul 2003 05:48:30 -0700
Subject: using functions and file renaming problem
References: <3F174E76.4000302@hotmail.com> <bf7rs0$rtc$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <93f5c5e9.0307180448.126b04b6@posting.google.com>

bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) wrote in message 
> This looks like an old post that ignores some responses you got to your original post like this.
> Did some mail get lost? Or was this an accidental repost of something old? I still see
> indentation misalignments, probably due to mixing tabs and spaces (bad news in python ;-)
> 
> Regards,
> Bengt Richter

Sorry Bengt, I overlooked some responses to an earlier, similar
question. I have too many computers in too many places, so forgive me.
Thanks for taking the time to tell me again!!! I'll clean up the
indentation... I promise.



From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Jul  3 14:50:13 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 14:50:13 -0400
Subject: Reading an image file data.........
References: <mailman.1057240207.12496.python-list@python.org> <be1gml$p77$1@news.rol.ru> <3F044C9D.CE43D5F4@engcorp.com> <be1n8k$rfc$1@news.rol.ru>
Message-ID: <3F047AE5.C360F2E5@engcorp.com>

Egor Bolonev wrote:
> 
> Hello, Peter!
> You wrote  on Thu, 03 Jul 2003 11:32:45 -0400:
> 
> PH> Egor Bolonev wrote:
> ??>>
> ??>> [Sorry, skipped]
> PH>> That's twice I've seen you use this... what does it mean?
> 
> It's a skipper plugin for Outlook E. I select a redundant text and press the
> Skip button.
> Should I change a label?
> 
> http://www.fidolook.com/

I'd suggest either the "[some text omitted]" variant shown in the FAQ, 
or perhaps merely "[snipped]" or (worse, I think) "[skipped]".  At least
remove the "Sorry," part since it is the primary cause of the confusion
in the first place, but perhaps more importantly, don't leave the
message in at all if you are snipping an entire section and 
surrounding the "Sorry, skipped" message with your own text: it makes
it look like you typed the words yourself, and that's the most confusing
part of all (to me). :-)

-Peter



From usenet at soraia.com  Sat Jul 12 15:29:19 2003
From: usenet at soraia.com (Joe Francia)
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 19:29:19 GMT
Subject: new in town
In-Reply-To: <xBYPa.418026$3C2.11372267@news3.calgary.shaw.ca>
References: <AeVPa.445271$Vi5.11496890@news1.calgary.shaw.ca> <mailman.1058024839.27499.python-list@python.org> <xBYPa.418026$3C2.11372267@news3.calgary.shaw.ca>
Message-ID: <jkZPa.75780$ZC.9188@news.easynews.com>

Elaine Jackson wrote:
> As comforting as it is to know that there are "several ways of doing this", I'd
> be even happier if I knew the name of just one of those ways. The FAQ searcher
> doesn't seem to understand lengthy explanations and hand-waving.
> 

Gerhard is undeserving of your flippancy.  He's very active in this 
forum and very knowledgeable, but doesn't tolerate ambiguity and 
laziness (read some of his postings).  You asked a vague question, and 
got a vague answer (you also used an ambiguous subject line, so be 
thankful someone answered you at all).  You asked "Can Python be 
compiled?".  Did you mean "Can the interpreter be compiled by me?" or 
"Can I compile my Python scripts into a stand-alone executable?" (this 
one is asked once a week) or "Can the Python interpreter be compiled 
into (embedded) an executable?"  The answer to all of these is yes (more 
or less - see the FAQ), but since you didn't even specify a platform, 
how can you expect a more detailed answer than the one you got?

I entered "compile" into the FAQ search engine, and saw listed answers 
to all of the above questions.  You may want to revisit the FAQ, and you 
also may want to read this page: 
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

The Python community is a friendly one, but mostly, no one here will 
hold your hand.  If you show you've spent some time trying to solve the 
problem yourself and then ask specific questions about the thing that's 
stumping you, you'll get helpful responses.

jf




From jarausch at skynet.be  Fri Jul 18 13:21:28 2003
From: jarausch at skynet.be (Helmut Jarausch)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 19:21:28 +0200
Subject: Perl -> Python hopeless?
Message-ID: <3f182c9a$0$276$ba620e4c@reader0.news.skynet.be>

Hi,
having been a Perl fan for years I have nearly converted to Python.
Still, there are LOTS and very good modules written in Perl.

Is there a tool to lesson the burdon of translation of Perl to Python?
I am completely aware of the fact that a fully automatic translation
to readable Python source is hard if not impossible.
But such a tool could lots of the tedious work like replacing
braces by proper indentation and and similar things.

Thanks for a pointer (if there is one)

-- 
Helmut Jarausch

Lehrstuhl fuer Numerische Mathematik
RWTH - Aachen University
D 52056 Aachen, Germany




From frefo253 at student.liu.se  Sat Jul 19 11:51:57 2003
From: frefo253 at student.liu.se (Fredrik Fornwall)
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 17:51:57 +0200
Subject: List of declared variables in interactive Python session?
Message-ID: <pNdSa.397$Y5.120@nntpserver.swip.net>

Hello.

Is there a way to list all the declared variables in an interactive 
Python session?

Thanks,
Fredrik




From jjl at pobox.com  Sat Jul 26 20:55:11 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 27 Jul 2003 01:55:11 +0100
Subject: looping through a file
References: <3eaf6668$0$1030$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au> <bfs0ec$eq9$1@news.iucc.ac.il> <3f21903c$0$27898$626a54ce@news.free.fr> <mailman.1059251920.7295.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87llukrdow.fsf@pobox.com>

Heiko Wundram <heikowu at ceosg.de> writes:

> On Fri, 2003-07-25 at 22:24, Bruno Desthuilliers wrote:
> > for line in thefile.readlines():
> >      doWhatEverWithTheLine()
> 
> Or, if you're on a sufficiently new Python:
> 
> for line in thefile:
> 	doWhateverWithTheLine()

I recall that in an old Python you could get into an awful mess (as I
did) with this by having several 'for line in file' blocks in a row:

for line in f:
    if not line.startswith("magic"): continue  # skip header

for line in f:
    ...process data...

I gathered from a recent thread that this has changed -- the file is
its own iterator now.  Was the old behaviour ever released in 2.2, or
was it just part of a 2.3 beta?


John



From psimmo60 at hotmail.com  Fri Jul  4 05:12:09 2003
From: psimmo60 at hotmail.com (Paul Simmonds)
Date: 4 Jul 2003 02:12:09 -0700
Subject: Python Code Snippets
References: <be1hs0$111s$1@biggoron.nerim.net>
Message-ID: <94974e1a.0307040112.1c6d7d14@posting.google.com>

"Aur?lien G?ron" <ageron at HOHOHOHOvideotron.ca> wrote in message news:<be1hs0$111s$1 at biggoron.nerim.net>...
> Hi,
> 
> Does anyone know where I can find a lot of Python code snippets?
<snip>
> I'm looking for a kind of organized list (GUI snippets, database access
> snippets, I/O snippets, etc.).  I find that there's no better way to learn a
> language than to be able to cut&paste actual working bits of code.
<snip>
Hi,
As well as the excellent resources others have mentioned, I'd
definately recommend investigating the Python source distribution, if
you haven't already. The joy of working with an Open Source language
is that there's no problem if you want to look at some decent code:

The Lib and Demo directories provide examples from the simple to the
not-so-simple in a variety of application domains.

The Objects and Include directories provide good examples of using the
Python-C API. Seeing how the objects are created under the hood has
increased my understanding of how Python works, and the quality of my
C extensions.

I'd also say the online Cookbook has a reasonable search facility, and
lists of recipies from different areas, so it is relatively easy to
find a particular code snippet.

HTH,
Paul



From leo.broska at NOSPAM.isys.com.au  Fri Jul  4 08:52:35 2003
From: leo.broska at NOSPAM.isys.com.au (Leo)
Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 22:52:35 +1000
Subject: exit endless python loop in emacs
Message-ID: <be3t7m$29nj$1@otis.netspace.net.au>

hi all

how can i terminate/stop an  endless python loop which i have started inside
emacs with C-c C-c.

ta, leo





From faizan at jaredweb.com  Tue Jul 29 14:05:19 2003
From: faizan at jaredweb.com (Fazer)
Date: 29 Jul 2003 11:05:19 -0700
Subject: Showing IP address of a user...
Message-ID: <7b454334.0307291005.53ee8c07@posting.google.com>

Hello,

I was wondering how I can show an IP address of a person who visits a
Python web-page?  Would I have to use Environment variables to access
Apache's server variables which hold such values like in PHP or what?



From h.b.furuseth at usit.uio.no  Sat Jul  5 13:26:18 2003
From: h.b.furuseth at usit.uio.no (Hallvard B Furuseth (nospam nospam))
Date: 05 Jul 2003 19:26:18 +0200
Subject: How to get CGI request-URL
References: <HBF.20030704ty6d@bombur.uio.no>
Message-ID: <HBF.20030705h0cj@bombur.uio.no>

Thanks for the answers.

-- 
Hallvard



From vze4rx4y at verizon.net  Wed Jul 30 03:49:37 2003
From: vze4rx4y at verizon.net (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 07:49:37 GMT
Subject: Thank you developers for 2.3
References: <aOIVa.8149$yv1.7974@nwrddc02.gnilink.net>
Message-ID: <lMKVa.907$cI2.99@nwrdny01.gnilink.net>

"David Lees"
> Flawless install and it ran my very simple minded (try not to laugh)
> nested loop integer arithmetic benchmark twice as fast as 2.2.3
> version 2.3      5.04 sec
> version 2.2.3    9.77 sec
>
> import time
>
> def speedTest(N):
>      t1 = time.time()
>      k = 0
>      for i in xrange(N):
>          for j in xrange(N):
>              k += (i+j)
>
>      t2 = time.time()
>      return t2-t1
>
> print speedTest(3000)
>
> david lees

You must really trust us.
The benchmark compares the speed
but doesn't check to see if the answers are the same ;-)


Raymond Hettinger





From manish.j at gmx.net  Sun Jul 27 16:02:29 2003
From: manish.j at gmx.net (Manish Jethani)
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 01:32:29 +0530
Subject: How to detect typos in Python programs
In-Reply-To: <877k64c0qo.fsf@pobox.com>
References: <ZPaUa.6$gZ.133@news.oracle.com> <3F214977.AEB088C8@engcorp.com> <x+VI/ks/K/yd089yn@the-wire.com> <HigUa.9$gZ.31@news.oracle.com> <877k64c0qo.fsf@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <vnWUa.7$Sq2.194@news.oracle.com>

John J. Lee wrote:

> Manish Jethani <manish.j at gmx.net> writes:
> [...]
> 
>>>The proposed typo catcher would probably catch a typo like
>>>
>>>        sys.edit (5)    # finger didn't get off home row
>>>
>>>but it probably would *NOT* catch
>>>
>>>        sys.exit (56)   # wide finger mashed two keys
>>
>>1)  That's in a different class of typos.  Such things can't be
>>auto-detected in any language.  It will probably require close
>>examination by the human who wrote it in the first place, or
>>someone who has been debugging it.
> 
> 
> That was, indeed, precisely the point that was being made.  Tests can
> catch these, static type analysis can't.

There's a difference between my "abost()" example and the "56"
example.  There's no function called abost anywhere in the
program text, so I should be able to detect the error with
static analysis.  Even in C, the compiler warns about stray
function calls.

The "56" example is out of place here.  I have fixed the code:

--------
[maybe a constants.py or whatever]
arbit_code = 56

[... elsewhere...]

sys.exit(arbir_code)
--------

That error can be caught in static analysis.

>>2)  No on calls sys.exit() like that.  5, or 56, is probably a
>>constant defined somewhere (where such typos are easier to spot).
> 
> 
> Yes.  Do you have a point?

Yes.  Don't use bad coding practices as an excuse.

-Manish

-- 
Manish Jethani (manish.j at gmx.net)
phone (work) +91-80-51073488




From lorenzo at mysurname.net  Sun Jul 13 12:56:46 2003
From: lorenzo at mysurname.net (Lorenzo Bolognini)
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 16:56:46 GMT
Subject: Old post about XML overhyped
References: <yASPa.33811$qa5.751050@news2.tin.it> <3f100fe2$0$6529$afc38c87@sisyphus.news.be.easynet.net>
Message-ID: <ibgQa.40304$qa5.940505@news2.tin.it>

"Bernard Delm?e" <bdelmee at advalvas.REMOVEME.be> :
> Could you possibly be referring to this here thread:
>
> http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2003-June/169716.html
>

Thank you very much,
Lorenzo





From jbar at lf1.cuni.cz  Tue Jul  1 12:38:22 2003
From: jbar at lf1.cuni.cz (Jiri Barton)
Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 18:38:22 +0200
Subject: Good code patterns in Python
References: <cb035744.0307010149.399df2eb@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3f01b8ff@shknews01>

One, there has been a proposal for a ternary operator on python.org. You
know that kind of  (cond) ? (eval1) : (eval2) stuff.

Two, no need to guard that code. Passing and assigning a paramater should
always make you THINK about what's happening.

Three, how about
a = 1
b = 0
.....
if b == 0:
  a = 0
else:
  a = a/b
? You cannot replace it with your pattern. Sure enough, there are far more
examples of this -- when you cannot evaluate the first expression.

Jiri Barton







From frank at pc-nett.no  Sun Jul 13 06:33:35 2003
From: frank at pc-nett.no (frank)
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 12:33:35 +0200
Subject: My first application
Message-ID: <beu0n1$8khor$1@ID-200515.news.uni-berlin.de>

I have just finished my first python application.
I am a beginner so I wrote this just to improve my programming skills.

it is a GUI app that scans a selected  range of ip addresses and
try to get info about the hosts such as users, localgroups, shares,
operating  system.
This program only runs under windows enviorment (tested under windows 2000)

please note that this is still a very very very early version.




here is the source code:
http://www.grutle.net/franki/release0.001.src.zip

and here is the windows binary
http://www.grutle.net/franki/release0.001.bin.zip






---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.500 / Virus Database: 298 - Release Date: 10.07.2003





From bokr at oz.net  Thu Jul 24 22:17:24 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 25 Jul 2003 02:17:24 GMT
Subject: Don't want to do the regexp test twice
References: <mailman.1059083242.32477.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bfq3vk$bqv$0@216.39.172.122>

On Thu, 24 Jul 2003 23:44:57 +0200, Egbert Bouwman <egbert.list at hccnet.nl> wrote:

>While looping over a long list (with file records)
>I use an (also long) if..elif sequence.
>One of these elif's tests a regular expression, and 
>if the test succeeds, I want to use a part of the match.
>Something like this:
>
>pat = re.compile(r'...')
>for line in mylist:
>    if ... :
>        ....
>    elif ... :
>        ....
>    elif pat.search(line):
>        mat = pat.search(line)
>    elif ... :
>       ...
>    else ...:
>       ...
>Is there a way to to do this job with only one pat.search(line) ?
Hack #1 (list comprehension abuse):

 >>> import re
 >>> pat = re.compile(r'...')
 >>> mylist = ' a bc def ghij'.split(' ')
 >>> mylist
 ['', 'a', 'bc', 'def', 'ghij']
 >>> for line in mylist:
 ...     if 1==2: 'naw'
 ...     elif 3==4: 'neither'
 ...     elif [1 for mat in [pat.search(line)] if mat]:
 ...         print repr(mat), mat.groups(), mat.group()
 ...     elif 4==5: 'haw'
 ...     else:
 ...         print 'final else'
 ...
 final else
 final else
 final else
 <_sre.SRE_Match object at 0x007F1260> () def
 <_sre.SRE_Match object at 0x007F5900> () ghi

Hack #2: (attach temporary value to an instance of something
that can accept attributes (almost any object):

 >>> import re
 >>> pat = re.compile(r'...')
 >>> mylist = ' a bc def ghij'.split(' ')
 >>> mylist
 ['', 'a', 'bc', 'def', 'ghij']
 >>> obj = type('Any',(),{})()
 >>> for line in mylist:
 ...     if 1==2: 'naw'
 ...     elif 3==4: 'neither'
 ...     elif setattr(obj,'mat', pat.search(line)) or obj.mat:
 ...         print repr(obj.mat), obj.mat.groups(), obj.mat.group()
 ...     elif 4==5: 'haw'
 ...     else:
 ...         print 'final else'
 ...
 final else
 final else
 final else
 <_sre.SRE_Match object at 0x007F69C0> () def
 <_sre.SRE_Match object at 0x007F6980> () ghi

The trick above is that setattr(...) return None, so the expression always continues to the or part.
 >>> setattr(obj,'xxx',123)
 >>> repr(setattr(obj,'xxx',123))
 'None'

You can spell

 ...     elif setattr(obj,'mat', pat.search(line)) or obj.mat:
 ...         print repr(obj.mat), obj.mat.groups(), obj.mat.group()

a little slicker if you make a special object to hold a binding to
the pat.search result, e.g., h is the Holder instance in the following,
which remembers the last thing passed to it and immediately returns it,
and also returns that last thing on being called without an arg:

 >>> mylist
 ['', 'a', 'bc', 'def', 'ghij']
 >>> h = Holder()
 >>> for line in mylist:
 ...     if 1==2: 'naw'
 ...     elif 3==4: 'neither'
 ...     elif h(pat.search(line)):
 ...         print repr(h()), h().groups(), h().group()
 ...     elif 4==5: 'haw'
 ...     else:
 ...         print 'final else'
 ...
 final else
 final else
 final else
 <_sre.SRE_Match object at 0x007F6FC0> () def
 <_sre.SRE_Match object at 0x007F6F80> () ghi

Obviously
     ...         print repr(h()), h().groups(), h().group()
could have been
     ...         mat=h(); print repr(mat), mat.groups(), mat.group()
instead.

E.g., using the leftover value in h:

 >>> print repr(h()), h().groups(), h().group()
 <_sre.SRE_Match object at 0x007F6F80> () ghi
 >>> mat=h(); print repr(mat), mat.groups(), mat.group()
 <_sre.SRE_Match object at 0x007F6F80> () ghi


>Of course I can do this:
>
>for line in mylist:
>    mat = pat.search(line)
>    if  ...:
>        ....
>    elif ...:
>        ....
>    elif mat:
>        ...
>but the test is relevant in only a relatively small number of cases.    
>And i would like to know if there exists a general solution
>for this kind of problem.

Take a pick, but not the list comprehension ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From matthias.oberlaender at VOID.daimlerchrysler.com  Thu Jul  3 03:21:48 2003
From: matthias.oberlaender at VOID.daimlerchrysler.com (Matthias Oberlaender)
Date: 3 Jul 2003 07:21:48 GMT
Subject: cooperation of buitlin methods usingtsuper
References: <bduh36$rgn$1@news.sns-felb.debis.de> <2259b0e2.0307020855.478300c2@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <be0lic$rgn$2@news.sns-felb.debis.de>

In <2259b0e2.0307020855.478300c2 at posting.google.com> Michele Simionato wrote:
> Matthias Oberlaender <matthias.oberlaender at REMOVE.daimlerchrysler.com> 
wrote in message news:<bduh36$rgn$1 at news.sns-felb.debis.de>...> I would like  
to adopt the cooperation paradigm in conjunction with builtin 
> > methods and operators, such as len, iter, +, * etc. 
> 
> Fine.
> 
> > But the direct approach does not work with the current implementation of 
> > super. For example, 'len(super(Y, y)' will always result in 'len() of 
> > unsized object'.
> 
> Of course, it must give an error! I think you do not understand how 
> super works. But don't worry, that's quite common ;)

Oh, wait a minute. I think this "of course" is a bit presumptuous. 

> 
> > As far as I understand, this is because builtins don't use a dynamic 
lookup 
> > chain, but go directly to the slots for the builtins. However, super 
returns 
> > an instance of class 'super'. Since all super objects share this class,  
its 
> > slots will not be filled as one might hope. 
> 
> > My workaround is this: I create a subclass of 'super' on the fly each 
time I 
> > call 'mysuper'.  Look at the definition below.  It seems to work. But 
maybe 
> > I have overlooked something. Is my understanding correct? Is 'mysuper' a 
> > good solution? Possible improvements? (e.g. caching of subclasses)
> 
> > Thanks for comments!
> 
> 
> > import new
>  
> > class X(object):
> >  def __len__(self): return 2222
> 
> > class Y(X):
> >  def __len__(self): return 1111
> 
> > def mysuper(cls, inst):
> >   return new.classobj('mysuper', (super,) + cls.__bases__, {})(cls, inst)
> 
> > y = Y()
> > try:
> >  print len(super(Y, y))
> > except Exception, msg:
> >  print msg
> 
> > try:
> >  print len(mysuper(Y, y))
> > except Exception, msg:
> >   print msg
> 
> >Output:
> 
> > len() of unsized object
> > 2222
> 
> I think you should re-read the documentation and
> google on the newsgroup for 'super'. The use case
> for super is in multiple inheritance, as in this example:
> 
> class B(object):
>     def __len__(self):
>       print 'called B.__len__'
      return 1111
>     
> class C(B):
>   def __len__(self):
>       print 'called C.__len__'
>       return super(C,self).__len__()

This is exactly the style of syntax I want to avoid! I'd rather write more 
concisely 'len(super(C,self))'.  
Why should its non-working be an intended feature? It becomes even more 
annoying  in the case of binary operators like  __add__, for example:

super(X,self).__add__(other)   vs.   super(X,self) + other

Which one would you prefer? Using ordinary super, I can't use all the 
"syntactic sugar" of infix operator syntax any more that make expressions so 
much more readable.

> > 
> class D(B):
>   def __len__(self): 
>       print 'called D.__len__'
>       return super(D,self).__len__()
> 
> class E(C,D):
>     pass
> 
> print len(E())
> 
> The output of this is
> 
> called C.__len__
> called D.__len__
> called B.__len__
> 1111
> 
> Do you see why? Feel free to ask if not. I do not understand what behavior 
> you expect from 'super'. Can you give more details on your specific use 
case? 
> 
Yes. I can see why. I'd dare to say I understand super fairly well now, 
including the diamond rule. But its benefit is not restricited to the 
multiple inheritance case. So we can leave MI and the "diamond" aside. 

What I expect from super(x.__class__, x) is an object that behaves exactly as 
if  x.__class__ where devoid of any _own_ attributes, as if it had been 
defined like this: 

class X(A,B,C,...): pass

And these expectations are almost met. But, at least in Python 2.2.1, its is 
a matter of fact that builtins/special method names are treated differently 
from ordinary class methods in conjunction with super objects. Do you agree? 
My implementation of super seems to fix this gap. Perhaps there are some 
other people who would appreciate that too. Or are there good 
logical/conceptual reasons againts it? This is what I would like to know.

> P.S. BTW, in Python 2.2+ you can replace ``new.classobj(name,bases,dic)``
> with the built-in ``type(name,bases,dic)``.

Thanks's for the tip (and your response)!

--
 ____  __  _/_/ . 
( / / ( /  / / /  

=====================================================================
Matthias Oberlaender, DaimlerChrysler AG, Research Center Ulm
RIC/AP (Machine Perception)
Wilhelm-Runge-Str. 11,  P.O. Box 2360,  89013 Ulm, Germany
Phone: +49 731 505 2354       Fax: +49 731 505 4105
Email: matthias.oberlaender at REMOVE.daimlerchrysler.com
=====================================================================




From tl_news at nexgo.de  Thu Jul 31 12:35:51 2003
From: tl_news at nexgo.de (Tino Lange)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 18:35:51 +0200
Subject: <dict>.setdefault()
Message-ID: <kmgiivclivi0vhbgr6adel4dafflq6i6ir@4ax.com>

Hi!

I just realized that <dict>.setdefault *always* executes the second
argument - even if it's not necessary, because the requested item in
the first argument exists.

This is not what I expected - why evaluate the second argument if it's
not needed? Also this can lead to side-effects!

Example:

>>> a = {}
>>> b = {}
>>> a.setdefault(1,b.setdefault(1,1))
1

'1' didn't exist in a - so I expect 'b.setdefault(1,1)' to be
evaluated. Great.

>>> a.setdefault(1,b.setdefault(2,1))
1

'1' existed, so it's not necessary to evaluate 'b.setdefault(2,1)'.
But:

>>> b
{2: 1, 1: 1}

... shows that it was executed!

So it's not equivalent to:

if 1not in a:
   b.setdefault(2,1)

Is this really  by design? If there's a complicated, expensive to
calculate/build 2nd argument (maybe a function call) then it's also
quite ineffective to evaluate it just to throw away...

Thanks!

Tino




From christoph at mmc-startup.com  Thu Jul 17 18:08:33 2003
From: christoph at mmc-startup.com (Christoph Becker-Freyseng)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 00:08:33 +0200
Subject: dumping command-history in python interactive mode
Message-ID: <3F171E61.5050101@mmc-startup.com>

Hello,

is there a way to dump (and save) the command-history of the python 
interactive mode.

Thanks,
   Christoph Becker-Freyseng





From jjl at pobox.com  Fri Jul  4 11:35:14 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 04 Jul 2003 16:35:14 +0100
Subject: Assing a COM Interface to a Python object for callbacks
References: <26caea2b.0307012335.1d717429@posting.google.com> <3F042188.5FFC45D3@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <87ptkq8fv1.fsf@pobox.com>

Alan Kennedy <alanmk at hotmail.com> writes:

> Mikko Ohtamaa wrote:
[...]
> > The problem is that SAX Parser requires COM interface for callback.
> > You must assign a COM interface as a handler to the parser. When the
> > parsing begins, the handler calls this interface.
[...]

See Mark Hammond's examples in the win32com/tests directory (IIRC)
that win32all installs in your Python directory.  I can't remember
which example demonstrates this, but I'm pretty sure one does.
There's also been some discussion on c.l.py on this.


John



From Marco.LaRosa at csiro.au  Wed Jul 23 21:59:58 2003
From: Marco.LaRosa at csiro.au (Marco.LaRosa at csiro.au)
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 11:59:58 +1000
Subject: Newbie question regarding py2exe.
Message-ID: <D081F0014410CC4D9CF273E809D48228011A9491@clex1.vic.CSIRO.AU>

Hi all,

This is a dumb question and I apologise. 

I have just started using py2exe and no matter what I try, I can't get it to
work.

Sometimes modulefinder.py complains, other times its VersionInfo.py. 

My question is how robust is py2exe? (Note that I have followed the docs to
the letter.)

Cheers, Marco

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From drs at ecp.cc  Fri Jul 11 16:41:45 2003
From: drs at ecp.cc (drs)
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 20:41:45 GMT
Subject: ZEO and COM
Message-ID: <diFPa.15521$BM.5099343@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com>

please let me know if there is a better place to post this ...

I am trying to create a shared dictionary which can be accessed via COM.  To
that end, I have written the code below (at the end).

So far this works from a single computer, but if another computer tries to
share the data it is unable to see changes, and throws exceptions when it
tries to rewrite data.

Does anyone know how I can make all connections aware of changes?

Any ideas?

Thanks

This is w/ ZODB3 3.1.2, Python 2.2, win2k

-doug

#-----------------
from ZEO import ClientStorage
from ZODB import DB

class ecp_ZEOCOM:

    _reg_clsid_ = '{F7B8D35F-7B24-4B84-A8B6-34880132A854}'
    _public_methods_ = [
        'open',
        'keys',
        'has_key',
        'get_item',
        'set_item',
        'del_item'
        ]
    _reg_progid_ = 'ecp.ZEOCOM'

    def open(self, IP, Port):
        addr = (str(IP), int(Port))
        self.storage = ClientStorage.ClientStorage(addr)
        dbl = DB(self.storage)
        conn = dbl.open()
        self.db = conn.root()

    def get_item(self, key):
        self.storage.sync()
        try: return self.db[str(key)]
        except: return ''

    def set_item(self, key, value):
        self.storage.sync()
        self.db[str(key)] = value
        get_transaction().commit()

    def del_item(self, key):
        self.storage.sync()
        del self.db[str(key)]
        get_transaction().commit()

    def keys(self):
        self.storage.sync()
        x = self.db.keys()
        x.sort()
        return x

    def has_key(self, key):
        self.storage.sync()
        return self.db.has_key(key)

def register():
    import win32com.server.register
    win32com.server.register.UseCommandLine(ecp_ZEOCOM)

if __name__ == '__main__': register()
#-----------------






From Frank at home  Fri Jul 18 02:33:52 2003
From: Frank at home (Frank)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 06:33:52 GMT
Subject: How do I get info on an exception ?
Message-ID: <fc07672ed11f5dcad539bcf9bf0d051f@news.1usenet.com>

Using Python 2.2.2,
I want to catch all exceptions from "socket.gethostbyaddr(ip)"

>From IDLE, I can generate:
>>> socket.gethostbyaddr('1.2')
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<pyshell#28>", line 1, in ?
    socket.gethostbyaddr('1.2')
herror: (11004, 'host not found')   <=== what I want when I catch

When I run this code:
        try:
            hostname, aliases, hostip = socket.gethostbyaddr(ip)
            return (hostip, hostname)
        except:
            print sys.exc_info()
            print sys.exc_type
            return

The "print sys.exc_info()" gives-
(<class socket.herror at 0x00AE7AC0>, 
  <socket.herror instance at 0x00C725C0>,
  <traceback object at 0x00C73920>)

And the "print sys.exc_type" gives-
socket.herror

How do I get the "(11004, 'host not found')" part?
More importantly, where is the answer documented that I should
have looked?

Frank



From mike at nospam.com  Wed Jul 16 18:41:33 2003
From: mike at nospam.com (Mike Rovner)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 15:41:33 -0700
Subject: Problems retrieving items from a list using a reference rather than an integer - can you help?
References: <3f15ca92@shknews01>
Message-ID: <bf4k8v$f67$1@main.gmane.org>

Rogue9 wrote:

> b1 = someOtherList[draw-1]
> r1 = b1[draw]

> Can anyone enlighten me as to why and how to get over this please?

Make sure your someOtherList ALWAYS contains valid indexes for b1, i.e. in
range(len(b1))

[side node] The whole approach seems rather unintuitive to me.

Mike







From anton at vredegoor.doge.nl  Fri Jul  4 07:09:05 2003
From: anton at vredegoor.doge.nl (Anton Vredegoor)
Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 13:09:05 +0200
Subject: does lack of type declarations make Python unsafe?
References: <bresev47pva1a27odt1nlouppj27vh2pe0@4ax.com> <yQzHa.188017$g92.3811402@news2.tin.it> <qgiuev87lhuagv5fs1g5671id61p0mej7k@4ax.com> <a5WHa.197736$g92.4021282@news2.tin.it> <ur85r1mz1.fsf@boost-consulting.com> <c9%Ha.200753$g92.4077297@news2.tin.it> <uy8zy4vzs.fsf@boost-consulting.com> <pNfIa.206219$g92.4232233@news2.tin.it> <ea97dfd9.0306290730.137c6837@posting.google.com> <bdnite$lsg$1@news.hccnet.nl> <ea97dfd9.0307032207.50123ad0@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <be3o1d$iae$1@news.hccnet.nl>

david.abrahams at rcn.com (David Abrahams) wrote:

>anton at vredegoor.doge.nl (Anton Vredegoor) wrote in message news:<bdnite$lsg$1 at news.hccnet.nl>...
>> david.abrahams at rcn.com (David Abrahams) wrote:
>>  <700+ LOP>
>> >I love a nice jestful debate.  Maybe your whole post is jestful and I
>> >failed to recognize it.  It certainly seems to have a derisive tone
>> >which makes it hard to see the love.  Where's the love, people?
>> >Anyway, if you tell me you didn't mean it that way I'll take your word
>> >for it.
>> 
>> Perhaps not love, to me both you guys are discussing trifles. TDD and
>> the source of it, static typing, are both about being satisfied with
>> just passing tests, while the really important discussion -for me at
>> least- is about aligning the code with ones thoughts, and how to
>> accomplish that. 
>
>I think that's *exactly* what I was talking about.  Type declarations
>on function parameters help me to align the code with the thoughts I
>have about the implicit contract with the function's callers.  In the
>process, it makes that contract more explicit.

Suppose (because of some perceived derisive tone f.e.) you would state
not to marry Alex. Would that automatically imply you being a female?
Perhaps it would indicate that in your opinion *Alex* [1] is a female?
Furthermore suppose you're from a country where same-sex marriages are
legal, would such a statement automatically imply that you are gay?

The trouble with implicit assumptions is that they're possibly
invalid, and as the Python Zen states: "In the face of ambiguity
refuse the temptation to guess". It's hard to see that Zen to be
overridden with "explicit is better than implicit" when no explicit
information is available, for example because of short circuiting [2].

I think the discussion about type checking has reached a state where
it is possible to compare it with for example the need for proofs in a
mathematical paper. Proofs are what defines a mathematical paper, but
alas, some heuristics indicate that for every formula used in a paper
the audience is halved. As a former psychologist working in a
mathematics department -also formerly- I noticed that, while
psychologists seem to be concerned with the validity of the data [3],
mathematicians were primarily concerned with the correctness of the
formulas used to evaluate the data.

There's some saying among psychologists that "if one needs a lot of
statistics to prove some fact, it's already doubtful that one is
really measuring that what one is supposed to measure".

On the other hand if the mathematical foundation of a test is not good
it's clear that the conclusions of a test are not convincing.

Sometimes practicality dictates that tests are necessary, but at the
same time it's clear that very elaborate statistical methods on data
that do not warrant such extrapolations can trick innocent readers (of
scientific articles f.e.) into believing false conclusions because
their implicit assumptions almost force them to do so.

Do we have some kind of tradeoff here?

Anton [4]

[1] Judging from some Europython photos for *some* Alex this seems not
to be the case 

[2]The fact is that for some people agreement comes even *before* sex
checking. Other people first check the sex before marrying, possibly
to their detriment because sexuality has a tendency to make one forget
the more important protocol once one has set only a foot upon that
path.

However if in type checking country it's probably best to take a role,
so please note that I'm male and not gay.

But you'd probably be surprised to see what's *really* behind some of
the email addresses here :-)

[3] It makes a *lot* of difference how a question is phrased, and also
the circumstances of the testing venue and the assumptions of the
tester can substantially influence the outcome of tests, even the
outcome of tests which have close to zero human intervention
(sometimes even the *absence* of human intervention distorts testing
results)

[4] Who has seen the vanity of psychological tests *and* the vanity of
mathematical evaluation of such tests, and has doubts about the vanity
of type checking and testing altogether





From mis6 at pitt.edu  Mon Jul 14 14:56:23 2003
From: mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato)
Date: 14 Jul 2003 11:56:23 -0700
Subject: focus problem with full-screen in Tkinter
Message-ID: <2259b0e2.0307140746.46cf2e8c@posting.google.com>

I have a problem with full screen windows in Tkinter.
Here is a minimal script showing the problem:

from Tkinter import *
root=Tk()
w, h = root.winfo_screenwidth(), root.winfo_screenheight()
root.geometry("%dx%d+0+0" % (w, h))
#root.overrideredirect(1)
root.focus()
root.bind("<q>",lambda e: root.destroy())
root.bind("<1>",lambda e: root.destroy())
root.mainloop()

Here everything works, and if I press "q" the window is destroyed.
However, if I uncomment the line with "overrideredirect" and I
really go full screen, Tkinter does not recognize the keybindings
and I cannot close the window with "q". Fortunately, the mouse
is recognized and I can close the window with a click.

I guess the problem is with the focus, how should I modify root.focus()
to ensure that the keybindings are recognized?

TIA,

           Michele

P.S. I am using Python 2.2 on Red Hat 7.3



From dmbkiwi at yahoo.com  Sat Jul 12 20:30:52 2003
From: dmbkiwi at yahoo.com (dmbkiwi)
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 12:30:52 +1200
Subject: Python - if/else statements
References: <pan.2003.07.11.19.34.16.330762@yahoo.com> <ben6uf$tcr$0@216.39.172.122> <pan.2003.07.11.23.16.08.781512@yahoo.com> <benpvl$9kj$0@216.39.172.122> <pan.2003.07.12.02.27.29.730366@yahoo.com> <beq4io$19r$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <pan.2003.07.13.00.30.47.81216@yahoo.com>

On Sat, 12 Jul 2003 23:11:20 +0000, Bengt Richter wrote:

> On Sat, 12 Jul 2003 14:27:33 +1200, dmbkiwi <dmbkiwi at yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
>>On Sat, 12 Jul 2003 01:58:13 +0000, Bengt Richter wrote:
>>
> [...]
>>> If that is really happening, I wonder if you are somehow executing code from a different version
>>> or have some kind of mixed-up installation. Or are using incompatible extension modules?
>>> Do you have multiple versions installed? what are your versions, and what sym links are there?
>>> And what are the #! lines of your script(s)?
>>
>>One point that I may not have made clear is that I'm not experiencing this
>>behaviour personally with my set up.  It is other people using this script
> Is it a single .py file?

Yes, although it imports a module called karamba (see my original post -
this is a theme run through a theme engine called superkaramba).

> 
>>who are reporting this behaviour.  The difficulty I'm having is that it's
>>very hard to debug a problem you're not having.  I've sent versions of the
>>script to these people, with print statements at appropriate points to
>>ensure that the script is doing what I think it's doing (in terms of going
>>wrong for them), and from the output they send back, the interpreter is
>>definitely ignoring the else statement and ploughing through them, even
>>though, it's also executed the corresponding if statement.
>>
> I wonder if your script is executed directly by Python. Perhaps it is "sanitized"
> for security reasons before being executed in some context, and it gets glitched,
> in the sanitizing process. If so, could you ask them to put a debug print to
> show what's actually being executed? And ask them how it's being executed
> (ie, exec vs exec in somedir vs execfile vs import and invoke vs whatever they do).

It is being executed through the superkaramba engine (written in c++ I
believe).  Not sure if I, or my users have enough gumption to do the
debugging you are referring to.  I have asked them to execute the script
which contains a number of print statements to verify that it is ignoring
the else statement.  Is there other debugging info that I should be
printing when running the script?

> [...]
>>Suffering alone exists, none who suffer;
>>The deed there is, but no doer thereof;
>>Nirvana is, but no one is seeking it;
>>The Path there is, but none who travel it.
>>		-- "Buddhist Symbolism", Symbols and Values
>>
> Cool ;-)
> 
> Regards,
> Bengt Richter

Glad you liked it.  It's just an automated sig generated by the fortune
program.  No conscious thought goes into it :-).

Matt



From duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk  Wed Jul 23 11:31:57 2003
From: duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk (Duncan Booth)
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 15:31:57 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: The global statement
References: <pan.2003.07.23.08.06.17.301516@intnet.mu> <bfm7m8$g9shl$1@ID-63505.news.uni-berlin.de> <pan.2003.07.23.15.14.52.430267@intnet.mu>
Message-ID: <Xns93C1A6E45488Eduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

"David Hitillambeau" <edavid at intnet.mu> wrote in 
news:pan.2003.07.23.15.14.52.430267 at intnet.mu:

> On Wed, 23 Jul 2003 16:56:08 +0200, Thomas G?ttler wrote:
> 
>> If foo and bar are in the same file, 
>> you don't need the "global".
> 
> Then when is "global" required? What is it's role?
> 
I'm afraid Thomas G?ttler's answer was a bit misleading.

You never need to use the 'global' statement outside a function. The only 
effect of 'global' is to declare that a variable assigned to within a 
function is actually a global variable. The fact that it is a global 
variable lasts only for the duration of the function in which it occurs.

Global variables are not in fact global. They are global only to the module 
in which they occur (usually you get one module per source file, although 
be aware that if you run a script A.py, it runs in the module __main__ and 
importing A will give you a second module from the same source, with its 
own global variables).

If you want to access a global variable from another module you don't need 
a global statement, just prefix the variable with a reference to the 
module. e.g. 'A.x' will access the global 'x' in module 'A'.

So:

 BAD=1

 def foo():
    global BAD
    BAD = 2

 def bar():
    BAD = 3
    global BAD

 def xyzzy():
    BAD="xyzzy"

 def plugh():
    print "BAD is",BAD

Outside the function assigning to BAD makes it a global variable. Inside 
foo and bar the global statement makes BAD a global variable for the 
assignment, notice that it doesn't matter where in the function the global 
statement occurs, although it is conventional to list globals at the head 
of the function.

'xyzzy' simply sets a local variable with the same name as the global.

'plugh' accesses the global: if you don't try to assign to it you don't 
need to tell Python its a global.

Finally, all of this confusion can be avoided if you use classes instead of 
global variables. e.g.

 class MyClass:
    def __init__(self):
       self.value = 0

    def foo(self):
       self.value = 1

    def bar(self):
       self.value = 2

 obj = MyClass()
 obj.foo()
 obj.bar()
 
-- 
Duncan Booth                                             duncan at rcp.co.uk
int month(char *p){return(124864/((p[0]+p[1]-p[2]&0x1f)+1)%12)["\5\x8\3"
"\6\7\xb\1\x9\xa\2\0\4"];} // Who said my code was obscure?



From fredrik at pythonware.com  Sun Jul 13 20:00:07 2003
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 02:00:07 +0200
Subject: anything like C++ references?
References: <13t0hvsb7idh0g6ac3upe5k0qd6flc17ah@4ax.com> <pan.2003.07.13.10.58.11.376531@127.0.0.1> <lq-cnWRG9rRuMIyiXTWJjQ@comcast.com> <b8c3hvsesjoumiboobml3nsnajtha99mp1@4ax.com> <1058126738.28456.424.camel@lothlorien> <mailman.1058131341.21911.python-list@python.org> <mpn3hvkbd9sesm30devamii1vmdnq90lg8@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <besrqo$c38$1@main.gmane.org>

Stephen Horne wrote:

> Java has the same problem as Python in this respect. You can either
> state that it implements a different assignment semantic for some data
> types than it does for other data types, or you can claim that some
> data types have implicit built in references while others don't.

Or you can explain how it actually works, instead of making things up as
you post.  In my experience, most people prefer that approach.

</F>







From usenet at marnanel.org  Tue Jul 29 19:00:29 2003
From: usenet at marnanel.org (Marnanel)
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 19:00:29 -0400
Subject: urlretrieve a file whose name has spaces in it
In-Reply-To: <10caf2e2.0307291439.33d9fcc3@posting.google.com>
References: <10caf2e2.0307291439.33d9fcc3@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <H5KcnQUVaMsQYbuiRTvUqg@speakeasy.net>

> The statement:
> urllib.urlretrieve("http://website.com/path/string string1 foo.doc",
> "local_file");
> 
> produces local_file which contains the following one line:
> <html><head><title>Error</title></head><body>The parameter is
> incorrect. </body></html>
> 
> What is the correct way of specifying the this file in urlretrieve() ?

Have you tried 
urllib.urlretrieve("http://website.com/path/string%20string1%20foo.doc", 
"local_file"); ? (URLs can't really contain unescaped spaces.)

M




From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Jul  4 13:57:24 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 13:57:24 -0400
Subject: Exceptions and modules
References: <292c8da4.0307040627.59acda19@posting.google.com> <Xns93AEA00AA90A5duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <3F05C004.AE1FF727@engcorp.com>

Duncan Booth wrote:
> 
> westernsam at hotmail.com (sam) wrote in
> news:292c8da4.0307040627.59acda19 at posting.google.com:
> 
> > So the Exception isn't recognised even though it has the same
> > namespace and name as the exception defined in the module. I have to
> > uncomment the 7th line to get my example to behave as I would like it
> > to.
> >
> > Is this a bug/feature? Is there any reason why it shouldn't work the
> > way I expect it to?
> 
> It's a feature, and it probably ought to be in the FAQ in some form.
[snip explanation]

And the solution is to avoid putting things into your __main__ module
(the one run from the command line) which other modules need to find
by importing it.  If the application is so complex that it needs to 
have multiple modules, make the main one do something simple like 
import an Application class from somewhere else, instantiate it, and
call .run() on it (or whatever...).

-Peter



From gradha at titanium.sabren.com  Tue Jul 15 15:22:48 2003
From: gradha at titanium.sabren.com (Grzegorz Adam Hankiewicz)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 21:22:48 +0200
Subject: mailbox_reader 1.0.2 -- Python module to read UNIX mailboxes sequentially.
In-Reply-To: <besgbg$ad6$1@slb9.atl.mindspring.net>
References: <mailman.1058008218.28808.python-list@python.org> <bepqgn$fkc$1@slb9.atl.mindspring.net> <mailman.1058090959.10232.python-list@python.org> <besgbg$ad6$1@slb9.atl.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <20030715192248.GB30309@pedos.es>

On 2003-07-13, Andrew Dalke <adalke at mindspring.com> wrote:
> Me:
> > > What does this do that the standard Python library doesn't support?
> 
> Grzegorz Adam Hankiewicz
> > * python 1.5.2 support.
> > * [round-tripping]
>    ...
> 
> Could you include those points in your documentation?  It
> helps others to understand when to look at your library vs.
> some other library.

Yes, I should do that for next version. Thanks for the tip.

-- 
 Please don't send me private copies of your public answers. Thanks.




From geoff at gerrietts.net  Tue Jul 29 17:02:22 2003
From: geoff at gerrietts.net (Geoff Gerrietts)
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 14:02:22 -0700
Subject: Tools for reading Dr Dobb's Python-URL
In-Reply-To: <20030727160011.GA847@lilith.ghaering.test>
References: <mailman.1059296203.18871.python-list@python.org> <3f23bc25$0$49102$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl> <20030727144122.GA1689@mirk.lan> <20030727160011.GA847@lilith.ghaering.test>
Message-ID: <20030729210222.GB25897@thoth.homegain.com>

Quoting Gerhard Haering (gh at ghaering.de):
> * Egbert Bouwman <egbert.list at hccnet.nl> [2003-07-27 16:41 +0200]:
> > On Sun, Jul 27, 2003 at 01:48:55PM +0200, Irmen de Jong wrote:
> > > 
> > > Open the message in your news reader.
> > > Click on an URL in the message.
> > > 
> > > Sorry, couldn't resist. I'm not sure what you want to
> > > do, really? 
> > 
> > My mail reader is the text-based Mutt, which:
> > - doesn't react to mouse clicks
> > - does show url's in a different color

Gnome-terminal allows you to ctrl-right click on the URL, and select
"open in browser". Took me a while to find that, hope it helps.

--G.

-- 
Geoff Gerrietts                <geoff at gerrietts net>
"I have read your book and much like it." --Moses Hadas




From kj.kjn at wanadoo.fr  Wed Jul  2 04:53:32 2003
From: kj.kjn at wanadoo.fr (kj.kjn)
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 10:53:32 +0200
Subject: returning a structure using SWIG
Message-ID: <bdu6od$68j$1@news-reader4.wanadoo.fr>

I would like to build a module for the fuction : myReturn find(char ** p1,
int p2)

The problem is that I dont know how to specify the myReturn Type using swig.

myReturn is :

typedef struct{
    char * name;
    char * len[10];
    time_t time;
} myReturn

How to specify a such type in the interface file ?

Thank you





From tomas at fancy.org  Mon Jul 14 20:06:17 2003
From: tomas at fancy.org (Tom Plunket)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 17:06:17 -0700
Subject: anything like C++ references?
References: <000301c348c7$3c501980$21795418@dell1700> <jf22hvotj4n0q5tpkg627e3jv61norf93n@4ax.com> <3F11106A.65FDA8F2@alcyone.com> <iqm2hvs77lhe1m71v9b579070khbf0uv0a@4ax.com> <berqqd$ad5$1@panix3.panix.com> <brs2hv8edfv0d1fch9mha8otuulajnkh0g@4ax.com> <8vd6hv0sdvoitccmnj4pdj66ss2vg4ii3n@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <l1h6hv4c9f80uhv2j3gcpro1htq5n3q62i@4ax.com>

Tom Plunket wrote:

> What I specifically want is a way to have a "second-level
> binding", e.g. a reference to a reference (assuming that the
> terminology is correct by saying that all Python variables are
> references).  This is where I see the hole in Python, that there
> actually is a class of object that is different from everything
> else; you can bind to anything at all in the language...except
> references.

I just realized that this would be silly, complex, etc.

Say you could (as another poster mentioned) do something like
this:

>>> a = 5
>>> b = ref_to(5)
>>> a = 3
>>> print b
3

This would require a new built-in probably, and any time you
(accidentally?) did 'b = c', then you'd lose that reference,
but...  hmm, I wonder if it'd be handy.

Probably not enough to justify the expense.  :)

-tom!



From bokr at oz.net  Fri Jul 18 16:08:37 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 18 Jul 2003 20:08:37 GMT
Subject: How do I get info on an exception ?
References: <fc07672ed11f5dcad539bcf9bf0d051f@news.1usenet.com> <3F1793D4.E6EEF8A1@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <bf9k45$3cm$0@216.39.172.122>

On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 23:29:40 -0700, Erik Max Francis <max at alcyone.com> wrote:

>Frank wrote:
>
>> Using Python 2.2.2,
>> I want to catch all exceptions from "socket.gethostbyaddr(ip)"
>> 
>> From IDLE, I can generate:
>> >>> socket.gethostbyaddr('1.2')
>> Traceback (most recent call last):
>>   File "<pyshell#28>", line 1, in ?
>>     socket.gethostbyaddr('1.2')
>> herror: (11004, 'host not found')   <=== what I want when I catch
>> 
>> When I run this code:
>>         try:
>>             hostname, aliases, hostip = socket.gethostbyaddr(ip)
>>             return (hostip, hostname)
>>         except:
>>             print sys.exc_info()
>>             print sys.exc_type
>>             return
>
>Use the format:
>
>	try:
>	    ...
>	except ErrorType, e:
>	    ... do something with exception object e ...
>
Indeed. Or if you want to catch all standard exceptions until you know what is
happening, you could pick from the following. I guess you could also catch all
exceptions defined in a module without knowing what they're named, and re-raise
if other, e.g., with (untested!)

        if not repr(e.__class__).startswith('socket'): raise

is there another way to do that?

 >>> import socket
 >>> try:
 ...     socket.gethostbyaddr('1.2')
 ... except Exception, e:
...     print 'plain e:', e
...     print 'e class:', e.__class__
...     print 'e class name:', e.__class__.__name__
...     print 'vars keys:', vars(e).keys()
...     print 'vars dict:', vars(e)
...     print 'additional inherited clutter seen by dir:\n',dir(e)
...
plain e: (11004, 'host not found')
e class: socket.herror
e class name: herror
vars keys: ['args']
vars dict: {'args': (11004, 'host not found')}
additional inherited clutter seen by dir:
['__doc__', '__getitem__', '__init__', '__module__', '__str__', 'args']

You could also print a formatted vars(e) to see unanticipated attributes more nicely
with e.g., (untested!) print ''.join(['%16s = %r\n' %(k,v) for k,v in vars(e).items()])

>>>> import socket
>>>> socket.error
><class socket.error at 0x8154304>
>>>> try:
>...  socket.gethostbyaddr('1.2')
>... except socket.error, e:
>...  print e, dir(e), e.args
>... 
>(1, 'Unknown host') ['__doc__', '__getitem__', '__init__', '__module__',
>'__str__', 'args'] (1, 'Unknown host')
>
>> How do I get the "(11004, 'host not found')" part?
>> More importantly, where is the answer documented that I should
>> have looked?
>
>Check the part on exception handling.
>
Interactively, help('exceptions') is also helpful (note quotes)

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From jocsch at phreaker.net  Sun Jul  6 15:17:36 2003
From: jocsch at phreaker.net (Markus Joschko)
Date: Sun, 06 Jul 2003 21:17:36 +0200
Subject: Search for mapping solution
Message-ID: <be9t66$2otne$1@ID-47851.news.dfncis.de>

Hi,
stated in a post befor, I'm a java programmer, fascinated about the elegant
way python solves iterations. Maybe you can show me a solution how to map
the following

I have a List:

Name - Number - Costs

lines = [['fred','333','0,10'],['sam','444','1'],['fred','333','0,50']]

Now I want to have it in a dictionary(name,costs)  Should look like
{'fred':'0,60' , 'sam':'1'}

What's an elegant way to do it? I can use a lot of loops, but I assume, that
there is a better way of doing so.

Thanks, 
 Markus



From klappnase at freenet.de  Sat Jul 19 21:18:57 2003
From: klappnase at freenet.de (klappnase)
Date: 19 Jul 2003 18:18:57 -0700
Subject: tk prerequisite
References: <3f0fffc0$0$235@hades.is.co.za>
Message-ID: <9a410299.0307191718.5dd25502@posting.google.com>

Tertius <tcronj at ananzi.co.za> wrote in message news:<3f0fffc0$0$235 at hades.is.co.za>...
> Installing tkinter 2.2.3 on RH9 the following message displayed
> 
> 
> [root at host 223]# rpm -i tkinter-2.2.3-26.i386.rpm
> warning: tkinter-2.2.3-26.i386.rpm: V3 DSA signature: NOKEY, key ID fd71b297
> error: Failed dependencies:
>          libtcl8.3.so is needed by tkinter-2.2.3-26
>          libtix8.1.8.3.so is needed by tkinter-2.2.3-26
>          libtk8.3.so is needed by tkinter-2.2.3-26
> 
> 
> Question:
> 
> Must it be 8.3 or will 8.4 also do ?
> 
> TIA
> Tertius
You definitely need 8.3 (however these should be the defaults in RH9 if I
remember correctly, have you upgraded manually?).

Cheers

Michael



From zathras at thwackety.com  Thu Jul 31 18:13:05 2003
From: zathras at thwackety.com (Michael Sparks)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 23:13:05 +0100 (BST)
Subject: What does "*list" mean?
In-Reply-To: <fb0466d1.0307310929.3c8eb2a3@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0307312237260.16282-100000@pingu.thwackety.com>

On 31 Jul 2003, Greg Smethells wrote:

> What exactly does "*values" mean in the following code?

One way of viewing it is that it flattens the list - expands the list as
separate arguments to be passed to the function. For those coming from a
perl background it makes the list act in the same way as a perl list
passed to a function not as a reference.

For sake of argument I'll  use the following list, and 3 functions:

values=[1,2,3] # For sake of argument
def bar(args):
   print args

def bar(args): # Simple case
   print args

def foo(*args): # Takes the arguments and turns it into tuple
   print args

def foobar(arg, *args): # Take first argument, and treat all others as
                        # part of a tuple called args
   print arg, ":", args

Let's do the simple case first:
>>> bar(values)
[1, 2, 3]

As you expect this succeeds - we passed one value to the function.

>>> bar(*values)
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
TypeError: bar() takes exactly 1 argument (3 given)

The reason this failed is because
>>> bar(*values)
Is essentially equivalent to this:
>>> bar(1,2,3)

Due to the "flattening" of the list.

The next case is where un-flattening happens (there's probably a better
phrase here :) :

>>> foo(values)
([1, 2, 3],)

What's happened here? The call that was made is essentially this:
>>> foo([1,2,3])

This hit the following signature:
def foo(*args):

This says to take the arguments, and stuff them into a tuple. We've only
passed one argument - specifically [1,2,3]. So a tuple is created using
this, which gives us our result : ([1,2,3], ) is displayed.

If we call foo with a normal argument list we get:
>>> foo(1,2,3)
(1, 2, 3)

Why? Because *args in this context _effectively_ says "take the
(remaining) arguments, and create a single value named 'args' that is a
tuple containing those values". ie take the arguments 1,2,3, and create a
tuple - which is (1,2,3) which then gets displayed.

If we combine these things we quickly find some fun stuff. What happens if
we flatten a list that gets sent to a function that turns it's argument
list into a tuple?

>>> foo(*values)
(1, 2, 3)

We get this because foo(*values) is directly equivalent to foo(1,2,3) -
the list *values gets expanded/flattened.

Taking the final example function - what happens if you mix and match?

>>> foobar(values)
[1, 2, 3] : ()

Well, our signature here was:
>>> def foobar(arg, *args):

This says - take the first argument in the parameter list and stuff it in
"arg", if you get any other values, create a tuple with them, and stuff
them in args. In this case the first argument was the list [1,2,3], and
there were no further arguments, so args contains an empty tuple ()

If however we expand/flatten out list:
>>> foobar(*values)
1 : (2, 3)

Our result is pretty clear: foobar(*values) has been treated as
foobar(1,2,3), the first argument -1- stuffed into arg, and the other two
stuffed into a tuple in args (1,2).

As a result this:

> >>> from struct import *
> >>> format = "dl"
> >>> values = [3.14, 42]
> >>> foo = pack(format, *values)

is directly equivalent to:

>>> from struct import *
>>> foo = pack("dl", 3.14, 42)
>>> foo
'\x1f\x85\xebQ\xb8\x1e\t@*\x00\x00\x00'


> '\x1f\x85\xebQ\xb8\x1e\t@*\x00\x00\x00'
> More importantly still, how would you write the same code in C? If you
> wanted to instead call struct_pack(PyObject *tuple), what would the
> tuple look like in C?

Caveat: I haven't written any C extensions, not looked into the API and so
on, but I will point out this minor thing: how does this python function
differ from a normal one?

>>> def hello(world, everyone):
...    print "hello", world, everyone
...
>>> values=["world","today"]
>>> hello(*values)
hello world today

Answer: it doesn't - it's just how the argument list has been built up. If
you were trying for the same effect in C, in principle, you'd either need:

   * To do a varags call - ala printf (in which case the signature of what
     you're calling would need to match) (This would match the "foobar"
     example above)
   * To upack the tuple into temporary values and then do the call
     manually - as you could in python:

>>> values=["world","today"]
>>> arg1=values[0]
>>> arg2=values[1]
>>> hello(arg1,arg2)
hello world today

There's probably a formal description of all this stuff somewhere :-)


Michael.





From max at alcyone.com  Mon Jul  7 17:29:16 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 14:29:16 -0700
Subject: print attitude
References: <mailman.1057355899.31256.python-list@python.org> <3F0669B5.679FB505@alcyone.com> <donn-6838FE.09532207072003@nntp1.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <3F09E62C.D1A8D53A@alcyone.com>

Donn Cave wrote:

> Speaking of floats, I believe lists containing floats are the main
> case where people really resist seeing the sense in this - but it's
> easier to call that a wart in float's repr, since they're as bugged
> wherever they see it and in my opinion rightly so.

Personally, I think the internal difference between str and repr hits
right upon a proper difference:  str is for a "reasonable"
human-readable representation, and repr is for as faithful and
informative a representation as possible.  These both have their uses
and I approve of the distinction.

The confusion, in my opinion, comes from the fortuity of when str vs.
repr is used, which is easy to understand once you've been exposed to it
but is very confusing at first.  Even for someone who's familiar with
the inaccuracy of floating point, you can very easily see how someone
would be confused and worried about the following code fragment:

>>> x = 1.4
>>> print x
1.4
>>> print [x]
[1.3999999999999999]

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ We're here to preserve democracy, not to practice it.
\__/  Capt. Frank Rasmey



From staschuk at telusplanet.net  Wed Jul 23 14:48:00 2003
From: staschuk at telusplanet.net (Steven Taschuk)
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 12:48:00 -0600
Subject: How does Mr. Martelli's Borg recipe work ?
In-Reply-To: <vhru01p6s53790@news.supernews.com>; from newsgroups@jhrothjr.com on Tue, Jul 22, 2003 at 10:50:38PM -0400
References: <764b8294.0307221520.18017b09@posting.google.com> <vhru01p6s53790@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <20030723124800.C527@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>

Quoth John Roth:
  [...]
> I can kind of understand the justification for the Borg pattern
> in Python releases before 2.2, because there was no way of
> creating a true singleton in those releases. However, in 2.2 and
> later, it's really easy to create one using new style classes.
  [...implementing singletons with __new__...]
> That being the case, I'd like to see the Borg pattern go the way
> of a fondly remembered hack that is no longer necessary.

Just out of curiosity: why do you prefer singletons to Borgs in
the first place?

(I don't see Borg as a hack to get the behaviour of a singleton; I
see it as a more direct way to solve the problem which singletons
are supposed to solve.  Thus to me Borg is actually preferable, in
those exceedingly rare cases when that problem actually arises.)

-- 
Steven Taschuk                             staschuk at telusplanet.net
"I may be wrong but I'm positive."  -- _Friday_, Robert A. Heinlein




From exarkun at intarweb.us  Thu Jul 24 21:45:17 2003
From: exarkun at intarweb.us (Jp Calderone)
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 21:45:17 -0400
Subject: Don't want to do the regexp test twice
In-Reply-To: <20030724214457.GA874@mirk.lan>
References: <20030724214457.GA874@mirk.lan>
Message-ID: <20030725014517.GB19318@intarweb.us>

On Thu, Jul 24, 2003 at 11:44:57PM +0200, Egbert Bouwman wrote:
> [snip]
> 
> for line in mylist:
>     mat = pat.search(line)
>     if  ...:
>         ....
>     elif ...:
>         ....
>     elif mat:
>         ...
> but the test is relevant in only a relatively small number of cases.    
> And i would like to know if there exists a general solution
> for this kind of problem.

  People will tell you not to use this solution for the obvious reasons:

    for line in mylist:
        if ...:
            ....
        elif ...:
            ....
        elif [mat for mat in [pat.search(line)]][0]:
            # mat is now bound

  List comprehensions at work.

  Jp

-- 
"Pascal is Pascal is Pascal is dog meat."
                -- M. Devine and P. Larson, Computer Science 340




From lorenb2 at bezeqint.net  Wed Jul 30 10:16:32 2003
From: lorenb2 at bezeqint.net (Bill Loren)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 16:16:32 +0200
Subject: how to gunzip a string ?
Message-ID: <025001c356a5$2d9aad10$6400a8c0@EVOD31>

I guess I really need some sort of library that will do a gzip decoding to a
compressed string.
assume that I have a gzipped_string_reply I got from an HTTP server,
It'd be superb to have a gunzip class that takes it and return its decoded
equivalent.

I managed to do it with the gzip library only after saving the string to a
file and then opening and reading it
with gzip.open, but it's extremely ugly.

any suggestions ?

thanks!
~ B








From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Sun Jul 27 10:20:37 2003
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 15:20:37 +0100
Subject: chaco setup
Message-ID: <sZ46RKA1+9I$EwRn@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>

I'm having trouble building chaco from source with Python-
2.2.3/Win2kSP4. I have Numeric 23.0 installed so assumed that it might
not work using the win32 installer so am trying to build from chaco-
0.1.0_alpha_37.776.zip. I get a setup.py error ImportError: No module
named build_agg. Do I need to install some extra software prior to
building chaco?
-- 
Robin Becker



From irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl  Tue Jul 22 18:11:42 2003
From: irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 00:11:42 +0200
Subject: Confusing automated translators.
In-Reply-To: <cesqhvsupo96cdo52hg67iqhcm6huncusd@4ax.com>
References: <37d6f77c.0307130932.1e3adf0d@posting.google.com> <3f11ac74$0$49101$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl> <ad052e5c.0307131718.4903430d@posting.google.com> <3F12808B.E53193B8@hotmail.com> <bf49ch$6n7$1@news.hccnet.nl> <3f15b04b$0$49114$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl> <cesqhvsupo96cdo52hg67iqhcm6huncusd@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3f1db69e$0$49116$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

Christos TZOTZIOY Georgiou wrote:

> On Wed, 16 Jul 2003 22:06:36 +0200, rumours say that Irmen de Jong
> <irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl> might have written:
> 
> 
>>You should really add a comma at the right place, otherwise even Dutch
>>people themselves tend to get confused rather quickly too:
>>
>>"Als achter vliegen vliegen vliegen, vliegen vliegen vliegen achterna."
> 
> 
> ...and the meaning is?


*spoiler*



If behind flies flies fly, flies fly after flies.

(I'm not too sure about the correct word order in English,
but this resembles the Dutch sentence most, IMO).

--Irmen




From deets_noospaam at web.de  Mon Jul 28 14:39:15 2003
From: deets_noospaam at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 20:39:15 +0200
Subject: Python vs. Perl vs. PHP?
References: <7b454334.0307281002.41dae81b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bg3qkk$lmr$05$1@news.t-online.com>

Fazer wrote:

> Hello,
> 
> I am an avid user of PHP and I am just fooling around with Python for
> now.  I originally wanted to know which one is faster.  As in, works
> faster.  So far, I think PHP is the fastest for dynamic web-content.
> Am I wrong?

Definitely. See here:

http://www.bagley.org/~doug/shootout/craps.shtml

Python is place 13, with a speed index of 578. PHP is second last (before
bash) and has a speed index of 197.

Besides that, PHP is a really ugly language - not only to the eye (which is
admittedly a matter of taste), but a friend of mine currently implements a
PHP->C-Compiler had delved deep into the language implementation - and it
_is_ ugly.

I expirienced mayor flaws in PHP 4.0.x, where my declared functions in a
6000 line include vanished from time to time - repeating the request
sometimes solved the problem. That was really nasty.

Regards,

Diez



From donhiatt at acm.org  Thu Jul 24 15:38:25 2003
From: donhiatt at acm.org (Don Hiatt)
Date: 24 Jul 2003 12:38:25 -0700
Subject: easy way to remove nonprintable chars from string
Message-ID: <2b012c5e.0307241138.177e5c8c@posting.google.com>

Greetings,

Is there an easy way to remove multiple non-printable
(e.g. "not strings.printable") from a string? Perhaps
something like foo.replace(list_of_nonprintables, '')
if it only existed? :-)

Cheers,

don



From duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk  Tue Jul  1 04:27:30 2003
From: duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk (Duncan Booth)
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 08:27:30 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: I have a list...
References: <20030701113915.226ae9bd.agg@astranet.ru>
Message-ID: <Xns93AB5E9005BF6duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

"Damir Hakimov" <agg at astranet.ru> wrote in 
news:20030701113915.226ae9bd.agg at astranet.ru:

> Hi, All!
> 
> say, i have a function:
> 
> def f(*b):
>   print b
>   return
> 
> then i do:
> f(3,4,5)
> (3, 4, 5)
> 
> but i have list f=(3,4,5)
> f(l)
> ((3, 4, 5),)    
> 
> how can i call f function to result
> f(???(b))
> (3, 4, 5)
> 
I'm not sure any of the other responses actually answered the question, 
which I think was meant to be, given a tuple l=3,4,5 how do you pass that 
tuple to the function f so that b simply gets the tuple. The answer is that 
you try:

   >>> f(*l)
   (3,4,5)

If that doesn't work, then you upgrade to a more recent version of Python. 
If you (or your users) really can't upgrade you should use 'apply'.

-- 
Duncan Booth                                             duncan at rcp.co.uk
int month(char *p){return(124864/((p[0]+p[1]-p[2]&0x1f)+1)%12)["\5\x8\3"
"\6\7\xb\1\x9\xa\2\0\4"];} // Who said my code was obscure?



From fperez528 at yahoo.com  Thu Jul  3 18:09:00 2003
From: fperez528 at yahoo.com (Fernando Perez)
Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 16:09:00 -0600
Subject: Emacs + py-mode + tkinter problem
References: <WCWMa.18$Ha.16@nwrdny02.gnilink.net> <be1ejn$5qov$1@ID-63505.news.dfncis.de> <yfs8yrfiat2.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <be29ht$l74$1@peabody.colorado.edu>

Alexander Schmolck wrote:

 
> Maybe too many people are happy with too little (essentially
> edit/run-whole-program/debug cycles a la C, plus maybe using python
> interactively as a calculator or to look up documenation). If I had time I'd
> write a tutorial on using ipython from within emacs for (I think) much more
> effective interactive development. 

... me cheers in corner, while I know I've also fallen behind answering people's
recent questions on ipython ;)  Ah, real work...

best,

f




From drlinux at columbus.rr.com  Wed Jul  9 15:31:34 2003
From: drlinux at columbus.rr.com (Dave Reed)
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 15:31:34 -0400
Subject: check if dir exists
In-Reply-To: <pan.2003.07.09.19.01.24.826622@sdf-eu.org>
References: <pan.2003.07.09.19.01.24.826622@sdf-eu.org>
Message-ID: <200307091531.34861.drlinux@columbus.rr.com>

On Wednesday 09 July 2003 15:01, Geiregat Jonas wrote:
> How can I check if a dir exists ?
> -- 

See the os module, specifically the os.path functions I believe.

Dave






From nospam at nospam.net  Tue Jul  1 17:32:53 2003
From: nospam at nospam.net (c42)
Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 21:32:53 GMT
Subject: exchange.HrFindExchangeGlobalAddressList
Message-ID: <MPG.196a6add436fee66989684@news2.atlantic.net>

Can anyone explain how to use exchange.HrFindExchangeGlobalAddressList, 
perhaps give an example?

Thanks!
c42



From gtewalt at earthlink.net  Wed Jul  2 18:14:36 2003
From: gtewalt at earthlink.net (gt)
Date: 2 Jul 2003 15:14:36 -0700
Subject: Newbie advice for string fromatting
References: <f9b7c11d.0307020642.7231cd82@posting.google.com> <R2EMa.9$_O4.4@nwrdny02.gnilink.net>
Message-ID: <f9b7c11d.0307021414.2c20d011@posting.google.com>

"Raymond Hettinger" <vze4rx4y at verizon.net> wrote in message news:<R2EMa.9$_O4.4 at nwrdny02.gnilink.net>...
> "gt" <gtewalt at earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:f9b7c11d.0307020642.7231cd82 at posting.google.com...
> > O.k., four days into playing with python
> > and I have a little problem that I would like
> > to get some feedback on.
> > ( as far as the best way to go about it )
> >
> > Basically, just a little Mad-Libs type script.
> >
> > Something like:
> >
> > libs = ["adverb", "noun", "verb", "tool"]
> > words = {a:j, n:j, v:j, t:j}
> > for x in libs:
> >        print "Enter a ", x, ": ",
> >        words[j] = raw_input()
> > print "The %s %s %s with a %s." % (a, n, v, t)
> >
> > What is the most efficient way to do something like this?
> 
> You're on the right track.
> Using dictionaries with the % formatting operator is efficient.
> 
> Subclassing a dictionary with a question asker is an
> approach that keeps the code simple and separates it
> from the actual madlib strings.
> 
> So, here is version to get you started:
> 
> 
> >>> farmtale = """
> At %(name)s farms, we drive a %(machine)s over
> the %(vegetable)s crops and feed %(food)s to our
> %(animal)s."""
> 
> >>> class Madlib(dict):
>     def __getitem__(self, key):
>         return raw_input("Enter a %s:  " % key)
> 
> 
> >>> print farmtale % Madlib()
> Enter a name:  Donald
> Enter a machine:  clock
> Enter a vegetable:  squash
> Enter a food:  pizza
> Enter a animal:  snake
> 
> At Donald farms, we drive a clock over
> the squash crops and feed pizza to our
> snake.
> 
> 
> Raymond Hettinger


Thanks Raymond, and Sean.
I posted at work this morning, so I didnt have Python
available to see if my idea actually worked or not.
It's good to know I wasn't totally off base though.
And, I'm making an educated guess, but I suppose
one could type up fairly large tales, let a user choose a 
category of a sort, and just import the tale modules.
Thanks again. :-)



From hokiegal99 at hotmail.com  Sat Jul  5 15:51:58 2003
From: hokiegal99 at hotmail.com (hokiegal99)
Date: Sat, 05 Jul 2003 15:51:58 -0400
Subject: Calculating Year, Month and Day of Life
In-Reply-To: <be74tp$pi4$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
References: <be72ph$k60$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <be74tp$pi4$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <be7a10$6b8$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>

hokiegal99 wrote:

> hokiegal99 wrote:
> 
>> Hello,
>>
>> I am a funeral director trying to write a small program that 
>> calculates the number of years, months and days a person has lived by 
>> entering the year, month and day of their birth. This is what I have 
>> so far:
>>
>> #---------------------
>> from time import *
>> local = localtime()
>>
>> print "Enter the year of birth:"; y = input()
>> print "Enter the month of birth:"; m = input()
>> print "Enter the day of birth:"; d = input()
>>
>> age = y,m,d
>> print age
>> print local
>> #----------------------
>>
>> The output looks similiar to this:
>> (1934, 2, 7)
>> (2003, 7, 5, 13, 20, 0, 5, 186, 1)
>>
>> My problem is that localtime is a list of 9 integers while age is a 
>> list of 3 integers. Is it possible to make localtime() only return the 
>> first 3 integers? If so, how would I then do calculations on the two 
>> lists' individual parts? For example, how would I instruct localtime() 
>> to subtract the first integer from age's list from the first intger in 
>> its own list (2003 - 1934)?
>>
>> Also, I am new to python, but I like it a lot and have picked it up 
>> quickly. If my approach to this solving this problem is completely 
>> wrong, please point me in the right direction.
>>
>> Thanks in advance!!!
>>
> 
> Sorry to respond to my own post, but I answered the first part of my 
> question by experimenting a bit. I pulled the first 3 integers from 
> localtime() like this:
> 
> local = localtime()
> print local[:3]
> (2003, 7, 5)
> 

Once again, I'm making progress on my own. Here's where I stand now:

----------------------
from time import *
local = localtime()

y = input("Enter the year of birth: ")
m = input("Enter the month of birth: ")
d = input("Enter the day of birth: ")
	
age = y,m,d
print "You are", local[0] - age[0], "years", local[1] - age[1], "months"
-----------------------






From dkuhlman at rexx.com  Sun Jul  6 14:22:50 2003
From: dkuhlman at rexx.com (Dave Kuhlman)
Date: Sun, 06 Jul 2003 11:22:50 -0700
Subject: absolute beginners question about API documentation
References: <be9nn3$2k0j3$1@ID-47851.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <be9pdo$2kjrj$1@ID-139865.news.dfncis.de>

Markus Joschko wrote:

> Hi all,
> I' new to python programming but a longtime java programmer.
> Is there an API documentation like the javadoc API from java?
> 
> I'm want to know all methods I can use on dictionaries. Where can
> I get an overview about these?
> I looked on python.org but haven't found such an overview.
> 

If you are asking about the *Python* API, then look here:

    http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/typesmapping.html

If you are asking about the C API (which is less likely but
possible), then look here:

    http://www.python.org/doc/current/api/dictObjects.html

Hope this helps.

  - Dave

-- 
Dave Kuhlman
http://www.rexx.com/~dkuhlman
dkuhlman at rexx.com



From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Jul 14 00:12:55 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 00:12:55 -0400
Subject: new in town
References: <AeVPa.445271$Vi5.11496890@news1.calgary.shaw.ca> <2a897f11.0307121139.21470fbb@posting.google.com> <EM_Pa.420940$ro6.10135135@news2.calgary.shaw.ca> <pan.2003.07.13.03.22.29.943248@127.0.0.1> <pan.2003.07.13.03.27.44.711790@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <3F122DC7.2DE0CCA1@engcorp.com>

David McNab wrote:
> 
> One more thing Elaine - I may offend others on this list in saying this,
> but if you're doing GUI applications, I strongly suggest that you dive in
> and familiarise yourself with Tkinter. It could well be the only GUI you
> ever need in Python.
> 
> Don't be intimidated if the Tkinter docs you come across urge you to
> approach it from a Tk viewpoint- there's an excellent guide at:
> http://www.astro.washington.edu/owen/TkinterSummary.html
> 
> I argue for Tkinter over another popular Python-accessible GUI, wxWindows,
> because Tkinter is smaller, faster and far less buggy, and has a really
> nice 'feel' within the Python environment.

And there are those of us who have tried that route already, found 
it lacking, and are much happier with wxPython (not wxWindows)
because we find it faster, more cosmetically pleasing and usable,
and easier to work with.

To each his own.  Thankfully we all have a choice here.

-Peter



From mmoum at woh.rr.com  Tue Jul  1 19:09:11 2003
From: mmoum at woh.rr.com (Mike M)
Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 23:09:11 GMT
Subject: whitespace and ?asc()?
References: <3F02086D.9010300@ihug.co.nz>
Message-ID: <rwoMa.313656$VP.53655586@twister.neo.rr.com>

NP = chr(12) = <ctrl-L> = New Page (for printers)

Mike

-- 
--
the Moum's (Mike, Dede, Suzanne, Jeff, Kristen)
Tipp City, Ohio, USA
e-mail: mmoum at woh.rr.com
Learn about the Baha'i Faith at: http://www.bahai.org
Visit the United States Baha'i Site at: http://www.us.bahai.org
"Ray Tomes" <rtomes at ihug.co.nz> wrote in message
news:3F02086D.9010300 at ihug.co.nz...
> Hi all
>
> I am totally new to python. On the whole I really like the design of the
> language and after just one day may be considered a convert.
>
> I was trying to find out the exact definition of whitespace so I went to
> look at strings.whitespace to find out which chars were whitespace, and
> found 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 32 which according to my ancient ascii chart are
> TAB, LF, VT, NP, CR, SPACE. Anyone know what NP = 12 is?
>
> Also, in trying to find the ASCII (or is it ANSI) values for characters I
> could not find the reverse function for chr() [in BASIC it is asc()]- can
> someone please tell me what reverses chr()?
>
> I had to do this yucky thing to decode whitespace ...
>
> import string
> x=string.whitespace
> for b in x:
>      for i in range(256):
>          if chr(i) == b:
>              print i
>
> Ray Tomes
>


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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From claird at lairds.com  Wed Jul 30 09:19:07 2003
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 13:19:07 -0000
Subject: Papers on Python
References: <8b36138c.0307281644.f6569ea@posting.google.com> <bg4mp7$jke$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <vifheb4p8bii1e@corp.supernews.com>

In article <bg4mp7$jke$1 at slb6.atl.mindspring.net>,
Andrew Dalke <adalke at mindspring.com> wrote:
>Rick:
>> But then I got thinking. What are the 5 (or 6 or 7 or 10) most seminal
>> papers in the history of Python in the opinion of members of this
>> newgroups?
>
> - Lutz Prechelt's paper comparing C, C++, Perl, Java, Tcl, Python, and
>    a couple more languages, all on the same non-trivial task
>
> - Greg Stein's paper at the San Jose conference (1998), on how his
>     company used Python to make a commercial web app then sold it
>     to Microsoft - helped convince me people could make money doing Python
>
>  - not really a paper, but reading through the tutorial and the library
>docs
>     back in 1997 were what convinced me that Python was the language for
>me.
>     It still took 2 years before I could use it -- too much preexisting Tcl
>and Perl
>     code.
			.
			.
			.
Somewhere between academic papers and Usenet discussions,
examples of each of which have already been recommended to
you, are magazine articles.  Last millenium, I wrote several
that *still* appear to attract readers, to my surprise.  If
my e-mail is an apt indication,

  "Python as a First Language" 
  www.oreillynet.com/pub/a/network/2000/06/02/magazine/python_first_language.html 

  "Getting Started With Python"
  web.archive.org/web/20010201170400/http://www.sunworld.com/sunworldonline/swol-02-1998/swol-02-python.html 

  "Batteries Included"
  web.archive.org/web/20001013152452/http://sunworld.com/swol-12-1998/swol-12-regex.html

are among those influential out of proportion to their artistic
merit.
-- 

Cameron Laird <Cameron at Lairds.com>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
Personal:  http://phaseit.net/claird/home.html



From matthew.rapoport at accenture.com  Tue Jul 15 15:33:47 2003
From: matthew.rapoport at accenture.com (Matt Rapoport)
Date: 15 Jul 2003 12:33:47 -0700
Subject: Thread suddenly stops in NT Service
Message-ID: <4150f6c8.0307151133.7dab4b25@posting.google.com>

I'm running an NT service with a thread.  The thread performs a
calculation every so often and appends the number to a text file. 
Every so often the thread just stops - or so it seems.  The text file
stops getting numbers added to it but the service is still running and
no errors have been thrown.  I'm quite sure that the code would catch
an error and post it to the event viewer if one were arising.

The only other relevant points I can think of are that the thread runs
a while 1: loop and is set to run as a Daemon.  The service waits only
for the stop command.  It doesn't seem to be operating system specific
(happens on both XP and 2000).  It doesn't seem to be file size
specific, it stops at various file sizes ranging from 5K - 50K.  It
doesn't seem to be time specific - sometimes it'll stop after about a
day.  Sometimes it'll stop after two days.

Any help would be great.  Thx.

Matt



From stacom at stacom-software.de  Fri Jul 25 09:22:17 2003
From: stacom at stacom-software.de (Alexander Eisenhuth)
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 15:22:17 +0200
Subject: data conversion question (binary string to 'real string')
In-Reply-To: <R2aUa.4$gZ.55@news.oracle.com>
References: <bfr9h7$i62j8$1@ID-155280.news.uni-berlin.de> <R2aUa.4$gZ.55@news.oracle.com>
Message-ID: <3F212F09.2060107@stacom-software.de>

Manish Jethani wrote:
> Alexander Eisenhuth wrote:
> 
> 
>>maby I don't see the forest because of all that trees, but :
> 
> 
> Maybe I don't understand your question...
> 
> 
>>from struct import *
>>
>>
>># how can I convert
>>f = float(0.5)
>>
>># with
>>bin_str =  pack('!f', 0.5)
>>
>># now bin_str is '?\x00\x00\x00'
>>
>>
>># to "3F000000" ?????
> 
> 
> ???????????????
> What is your question?
> 
> -Manish
> 
Sorry ...

This two lines converts 0.5 to a string in binary
representation

>>>from struct import *
>>>bin_str =  pack('!f', 0.5)

now bin_str is '?\x00\x00\x00', wich is the representation
of 0.5 in the memory. I need now to convert this binary
string to "3F000000", where '3F' is the hex value of the '?'
in ascii - table.

Any ideas ??

Thaks
Alexander





From steve at ferg.org  Mon Jul  7 14:24:48 2003
From: steve at ferg.org (Stephen Ferg)
Date: 7 Jul 2003 11:24:48 -0700
Subject: Python is a gem ,another successful day ....
References: <ECUNa.628$kY2.37591@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au> <am0Oa.461715$3n5.245818@news2.central.cox.net>
Message-ID: <b16e4ef7.0307071024.179875e8@posting.google.com>

> I'd be interested in knowing some of the arguments you used to win over VB,
> as I've been asked to put a couple of articles together suggesting why VB
> users might consider switching to Python.

I really hope you're able to do those articles comparing Python and
VB.

I'm trying to promote Python within the Federal government, and my own
agency, the Bureau of Labor Statistics.  Right now, the chief
alternative at BLS to Python is Java, but not too long ago it would
have been VB and PowerBuilder.

Folks are moving away from PowerBuilder mostly because of concern
about the vendor's longterm support/viability, but VB actually may
rise again, as there is a small but noticeable groundswell of
discontent with Java's clumsiness and verbosity.

Bottom line: If we can develop materials making a convincing case for
Python compared to VB, there are situations where such material might
be of real help.

-- Steve Ferg



From dgallion1 at yahoo.com  Tue Jul  8 17:50:03 2003
From: dgallion1 at yahoo.com (Darrell Gallion)
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 14:50:03 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: win32security.LogonUser
In-Reply-To: <3F0B14CF.6040102@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <20030708215003.43274.qmail@web21407.mail.yahoo.com>

Here's all the privileges I try to get.
Only SE_UNSOLICITED_INPUT_NAME fails.

I'm part of a domain and there's something about the
domain overriding local settings.

Thanks for your help.
--Darrell

SE_SYSTEMTIME_NAME SeSystemtimePrivilege
SE_ASSIGNPRIMARYTOKEN_NAME
SeAssignPrimaryTokenPrivilege
SE_PROF_SINGLE_PROCESS_NAME
SeProfileSingleProcessPrivilege
SE_SYSTEM_PROFILE_NAME SeSystemProfilePrivilege
SE_SYSTEM_ENVIRONMENT_NAME
SeSystemEnvironmentPrivilege
SE_LOCK_MEMORY_NAME SeLockMemoryPrivilege
SE_AUDIT_NAME SeAuditPrivilege
SE_CHANGE_NOTIFY_NAME SeChangeNotifyPrivilege
SE_LOAD_DRIVER_NAME SeLoadDriverPrivilege
SE_SHUTDOWN_NAME SeShutdownPrivilege
SE_INCREASE_QUOTA_NAME SeIncreaseQuotaPrivilege
SE_SECURITY_NAME SeSecurityPrivilege
SE_TCB_NAME SeTcbPrivilege
SE_CREATE_PAGEFILE_NAME SeCreatePagefilePrivilege
SE_INC_BASE_PRIORITY_NAME
SeIncreaseBasePriorityPrivilege
SE_MACHINE_ACCOUNT_NAME SeMachineAccountPrivilege
SE_UNSOLICITED_INPUT_NAME SeUnsolicitedInputPrivilege
Fail
SE_REMOTE_SHUTDOWN_NAME SeRemoteShutdownPrivilege
SE_RESTORE_NAME SeRestorePrivilege
SE_DEBUG_NAME SeDebugPrivilege
SE_CREATE_PERMANENT_NAME SeCreatePermanentPrivilege
SE_CREATE_TOKEN_NAME SeCreateTokenPrivilege
SE_TAKE_OWNERSHIP_NAME SeTakeOwnershipPrivilege
SE_BACKUP_NAME SeBackupPrivilege
SeChangeNotifyPrivilege
SeTcbPrivilege
SeAssignPrimaryTokenPrivilege
Testing winprocess.py...
CMD.EXE exit code:
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "E:\su.py", line 64, in ?
    stdout=out, stderr=out)
  File
"C:\Python22\lib\site-packages\win32\demos\winprocess.py",
line 163, in run
    child = Process(cmd, **kw)
  File
"C:\Python22\lib\site-packages\win32\demos\winprocess.py",
line 104, in __init__
    hUser = logonUser(login)
  File
"C:\Python22\lib\site-packages\win32\demos\winprocess.py",
line 34, in logonUser
    win32con.LOGON32_PROVIDER_DEFAULT
pywintypes.error: (1314, 'LogonUser', 'A required
privilege is not held by the client.')

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
http://sbc.yahoo.com




From bokr at oz.net  Mon Jul 14 14:54:01 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 14 Jul 2003 18:54:01 GMT
Subject: Newbie with sort text file question
References: <mailman.1058044097.29736.python-list@python.org> <mailman.1058188461.13132.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <beuu89$9ov$0@216.39.172.122>

On Mon, 14 Jul 2003 07:10:39 -0600, Bob Gailer <bgailer at alum.rpi.edu> wrote:
[...]
>>
>>Here's a handy idiom for what you want
>>
>>       fruits[fruit] = fruits.get(fruit, 0) + 1
>
>Don't you want setdefault() instead of get()?
>
In this case that would set the original value twice, once on either side of the '='.
Setdefault is more useful when you are maintaining a mutable, such as a list of things
that you append to, as the key's associated value. You could use a length-1 list here,
(initialized by the default to hold the count starting value of 0), e.g.,

         fruits.setdefault(fruit,[0])[0]+=1

and then later retrieve the actual count as

         fruits[fruit][0]

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From dl at grosss.net  Thu Jul 10 15:55:46 2003
From: dl at grosss.net (Paul)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 14:55:46 -0500
Subject: Getting Started with python
In-Reply-To: <3f0d2cb9$1@news.comindico.com.au>
References: <3f0d2cb9$1@news.comindico.com.au>
Message-ID: <bekgdf$3vg$1@news.acns.nwu.edu>

The Python Cookbook is a good place to find code snippets.  Here is a 
link to the section on databases.

http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python?kwd=Databases

Tony Steward wrote:
> Hello All,
> Ok i've decided to try Python can anyone point me at a simple demo of a
> windows program operating a database (maybe an address book) so I can see
> how it is done.
> 
> Thanks in advance
> Tony
> 
> 




From nirmalkannan at hotmail.com  Fri Jul 11 00:32:14 2003
From: nirmalkannan at hotmail.com (N.K)
Date: 10 Jul 2003 21:32:14 -0700
Subject: Convert between Windows style paths and POSIX style paths
References: <c9d82136.0307101244.4594e04d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <5b04353b.0307102032.1581abff@posting.google.com>

os.path.join  is what you are looking for, i beleive

eg: appendedpath = os.path.join(dir1,filename)

Regards
Nirmal 

noah at noah.org (Noah) wrote in message news:<c9d82136.0307101244.4594e04d at posting.google.com>...
> Does anyone have a function to convert back and forth between
> NT style paths and POSIX style? It seems trivial, but 
> I want to make sure I don't overlook some obscure detail. 
> Is it a simple matter of translating / and \ characters?
> 
> FYI, I need a Python function that does what cygpath does so that
> I can run a script on either NT or UNIX or Cygwin.
> I want my config files use one style of path.
> 
> Yours,
> Noah



From gh at ghaering.de  Mon Jul  7 13:43:00 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 19:43:00 +0200
Subject: looking for UDP package, network programming guidance
In-Reply-To: <uj8jgvsrbop1lhem5t743gv9pvuh7ig6l1@4ax.com>
References: <uj8jgvsrbop1lhem5t743gv9pvuh7ig6l1@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3F09B124.1070008@ghaering.de>

Tom Plunket wrote:
> [...]
> Searching the web turned up Twisted, although it seems like it
> might be a bit bigger than I would have hoped (in terms of,
> "there's a huge package here to figure out"), but as far as I can
> tell it's the only UDP solution out there.  Is this the case? [...]

No, Python's standard library supports socket as well, and that's what 
Twisted builds upon :-)

Something like this should be a rough start for an UDP client (untested):

#v+
import socket

sock = socket.socket(socket.AF_INET, socket.SOCK_DGRAM)
sock.sendto('Bing!', ('192.168.0.1', 5555))
#v-

For an example UDP client and server this heartbeat recipe might be 
useful: http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/52302

> [...] Finally, I'm also somewhat of a babe in the woods with network
> programming in general. 

The socket module is low-level, it's only a thin wrapper for what your 
OS offers. Twisted would be a higher-level framework. IMO there's 
nothing wrong with using the low-level module if you want to learn 
socket programming anyway :-)

> Any good references for learning about
> this stuff, [...]

Sorry, not that I knew of. There is a (very short) Python Socket 
Programming Tutorial, but it only covers the very basics. Probably there 
is some good material out there for doing socket programming in C which 
you could easily map to Python, because the concepts and even the names 
of the functions are pretty much the same.

-- Gerhard




From bokr at oz.net  Tue Jul  1 16:07:43 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 1 Jul 2003 20:07:43 GMT
Subject: Howto: extract a 'column' from a list of lists into a new list?
References: <vg1mbarhe86d2d@corp.supernews.com> <3f013fb1$0$97259$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
Message-ID: <bdspmf$leq$0@216.39.172.122>

On Tue, 01 Jul 2003 10:03:11 +0200, Max M <maxm at mxm.dk> wrote:

>Greg Brunet wrote:
>
>> but I'm not sure about how to do that.  I can do this:
>> 
>>>>>for g in tbl.Fields(): print g[0]
>> 
>> ...
>> STOCKNO
>> DACC
>> DEALERACCE
>> D-ACCRTL
>> D-ACCCST
>> 
>> but I expect that one of those fancy map/lamda/list comprehension
>> functions can turn this into a list for me, but, to be honest, they
>> still make my head spin trying to figure them out.  Any ideas on how to
>> do this simply?
>
>fields = [
>     ('STOCKNO', 'C', 8, 0),
>     ('DACC', 'C', 5, 0),
>     ('DEALERACCE', 'C', 30, 0),
>     ('D-ACCRTL', 'C', 9, 0),
>     ('D-ACCCST', 'C', 9, 0)
>]
>
>
>
># The "old" way to do it would be:
>NAME_COLUMN = 0
>results = []
>for field in fields:
>     results.append(field[NAME_COLUMN])
>print results
>
>
>
>
># But list comprehensions are made for exactly this purpose
>NAME_COLUMN = 0
>results = [field[NAME_COLUMN] for field in fields]
>print results
>
Or you can take advantage of zip:

 >>> fields = [
 ...      ('STOCKNO', 'C', 8, 0),
 ...      ('DACC', 'C', 5, 0),
 ...      ('DEALERACCE', 'C', 30, 0),
 ...      ('D-ACCRTL', 'C', 9, 0),
 ...      ('D-ACCCST', 'C', 9, 0)
 ... ]
 >>> zip(*fields)[0]
 ('STOCKNO', 'DACC', 'DEALERACCE', 'D-ACCRTL', 'D-ACCCST')

Or a list of all the columns of which only the first was selected above:
 >>> zip(*fields)
 [('STOCKNO', 'DACC', 'DEALERACCE', 'D-ACCRTL', 'D-ACCCST'), ('C', 'C', 'C', 'C', 'C'), (8, 5, 30
 , 9, 9), (0, 0, 0, 0, 0)]

Since zip gives you a list of tuples, you'll have to convert if you really need a list version
of one of them:

 >>> list(zip(*fields)[0])
 ['STOCKNO', 'DACC', 'DEALERACCE', 'D-ACCRTL', 'D-ACCCST']

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From gradha at titanium.sabren.com  Sat Jul 26 18:25:56 2003
From: gradha at titanium.sabren.com (Grzegorz Adam Hankiewicz)
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 00:25:56 +0200
Subject: ANN: mailbox_reader 1.0.3 -- Python module to read UNIX mailboxes sequentially.
Message-ID: <20030726222556.GA13502@pedos.es>

CHANGES

    Better documentation. New Parse_error exception raised when
    the opened file is not a unix mailbox. Now reading past the
    end of the archive keeps returning None instead of raising
    exceptions.

DESCRIPTION

    The module provides two classes: Mailbox, a file-like object
    which allows you to iterate through the contents of a mailbox,
    and Email, an object which holds the individual emails returned
    by Mailbox. Mailbox inherits from Mailbox_base, but usually you
    don't need to even know about this class. Mailbox_base implements
    the file like mailbox reading part of the class, and the Email
    object creation. Use the Mailbox class in your code, which will
    always maintain the same API for backwards compatibility.
                                                                                                                                                
    This module has been written with simplicity in mind, and low
    memory consumption. Unless you do something bad, I estimate
    maximum memory consumption as twice the memory required by
    the largest email of the opened mailbox. But I'm guessing,
    maybe it is lower, like one time your biggest email.
                                                                                                                                                
DOWNLOAD
                                                                                                                                                
    http://gradha.sdf-eu.org/program/mailbox_reader.en.html
    http://www.vex.net/parnassus/
    http://freshmeat.net/
                                                                                                                                                
LICENSE
                                                                                                                                                
    GPL

-- 
 Please don't send me private copies of your public answers. Thanks.




From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Tue Jul  1 09:45:41 2003
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 08:45:41 -0500
Subject: Partition names with Python
In-Reply-To: <20030701082545.GA18721@frobozz> (Andrew Bennetts's message of
 "Tue, 1 Jul 2003 18:25:46 +1000")
References: <1056984252.3f004cbc6abd6@mail.uzem.itu.edu.tr>
	<mailman.1056988192.18351.python-list@python.org>
	<bdqsjr$tjb$0@216.39.172.122> <20030701082545.GA18721@frobozz>
Message-ID: <m2n0fy2we2.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

>>>>> "Andrew" == Andrew Bennetts <andrew-pythonlist at puzzling.org> writes:


    Andrew> Or simply reading /etc/mtab or perhaps /proc/mounts (this
    Andrew> one is linux-specific, I think), rather than spawning a
    Andrew> process.

Good advice!  This seems to do it:

import os

for line in file('/etc/mtab'):
    if line.find('/dev/') !=0: continue
    columns = line.split()
    print columns[0].split('/')[-1]

JDH




From peter at engcorp.com  Wed Jul  9 14:59:07 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 14:59:07 -0400
Subject: SNMP support for Python under Windows
References: <538fc8e.0307091027.1825b454@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3F0C65FB.1B86A0C2@engcorp.com>

WIWA wrote:
> 
> I'm looking for SNMP support in Python. I have found pySNMP, but I'm
> not sure whether this works under Windows as well. 

Yes, it does.

> A few questions:
> 
> 1) Where do I need to install the pySNMP files?

Doesn't it install with distutils?  If so "python setup.py --install"
or whatever it says in the README would work.   Sorry, I haven't
installed it lately.

If it doesn't have instructions, put the files under the 
c:/python/lib/site-packages directory.

> 2) What do I have to do in order to be able to write somethin like:
>    "from pysnmp import session"

Install, then type "from pysnmp import session"....   ;-)

> Thakns in advance for all input

(If you're having troubles, please note versions and platform
next time, for Python, PySNMP, and Windows.)

-Peter



From ben at dadsetan.com  Sun Jul  6 18:06:24 2003
From: ben at dadsetan.com (Behrang Dadsetan)
Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 00:06:24 +0200
Subject: Using Loops to track user input
In-Reply-To: <bea0p6$17f$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
References: <bea0p6$17f$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <3F089D60.4030203@dadsetan.com>

hokiegal99 wrote:
> I don't understand how to use a loop to keep track of user input. Could 
> someone show me how to do what the program below does with a loop?
> 
> Thnaks!
> 
> ----------------------------
> #Write a program that reads 10 numbers from the user and prints out the 
> sum of those numbers.
> 
> num0 = input("Enter a number: ")
> num1 = input("Enter a number: ")
> num2 = input("Enter a number: ")
> num3 = input("Enter a number: ")
> num4 = input("Enter a number: ")
> num5 = input("Enter a number: ")
> num6 = input("Enter a number: ")
> num7 = input("Enter a number: ")
> num8 = input("Enter a number: ")
> num9 = input("Enter a number: ")
> 
> num = num0+num1+num2+num3+num4+num5+num6+num7+num8+num9
> 
> print num
> ----------------------------------
> 

# If you are want to loop a fixed amount of time, as I understand a way
# would be:
sum = 0
for i in xrange(10):
    sum += input("Enter a number: ")
average = sum/10
print average

# I guess however it would be more pythonic, because you do not really
# need that counter, to do something like:
entries=0
sum=0
while entries < 10:
    try:
       sum += input("%d) Enter a number: " % (entries + 1) )
       entries += 1
    except:
       print "You need to enter 10 values."
print "The average is %d" % (sum)

# And when you need you would want to make a "general" tool out of your
# case...
entries=0
sum=0
try:
    while 1:
       sum += input("%d) Enter a number: " % (entries + 1) )
       entries += 1
except:
    if entries == 0:
       print "You did not enter any number. Can not make average of 
nothing."
    else:
       print "The average of all %d numbers entered is %d" % (entries, 
sum/entries)




From donn at u.washington.edu  Wed Jul 16 13:28:43 2003
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 10:28:43 -0700
Subject: anything like C++ references?
References: <b8c3hvsesjoumiboobml3nsnajtha99mp1@4ax.com> <mailman.1058129901.28248.python-list@python.org> <plk3hv0s1m2egf4s34jo6vjedk0q8r2mu9@4ax.com> <hflQa.48826$wk6.12216@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net> <rp94hvc8fg6h91oe7ctqq9jn9ku3nlud1k@4ax.com> <f0f51c80.0307150945.3f19e48b@posting.google.com> <qlq8hv8e7a5177o250c2fhvg9hv2lhfa15@4ax.com> <20030715200433927-0600@news.xmission.com> <1058328099.572993@yasure> <20030716081156943-0600@news.xmission.com>
Message-ID: <donn-6E63A0.10284316072003@nntp1.u.washington.edu>

In article <20030716081156943-0600 at news.xmission.com>,
 Adam Ruth <owski at hotmail.com> wrote:

> In <1058328099.572993 at yasure> Donn Cave wrote:
> > Quoth Adam Ruth <owski at hotmail.com>:
> > ....
> >| In Python, there is no situation where "you really can't avoid 
> >| pointers".  
> > 
> > That's trivially true, no such situation can exist because that
> > Python can't be coded.  I'll repeat an example that I proposed
> > a couple days ago, though:  user implemented sequences could be
> > implemented with a single simple indexing function, returning
> > a pointer/target/whatever;  Python could assign directly to that,
> > making "seq[i] = x" the same kind of operation as and automatically
> > symmetrical with "x = seq[i]".
> > 
> > It can't be done without pointers, as far as I can see.  You may not
> > care if it can be done, but I think you'd agree that "there is no
> > situation that I care about where you really can't avoid pointers"
> > would be kind of a lame version of your assertion.
> > 
> > 	Donn Cave, donn at drizzle.com
> > 
> 
> I did a quick google search and couldn't find the thread you're 
> referring to.  Could you summarize it for me? It sounds interesting.  I 
> do so love the taste of my foot in my mouth.

http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=1058154004.286325%40yasure&output=gp
lain

There isn't much more to it.  Today's assignment:  replace
the __getitem__/__setitem__ with a single function, __item__,
that the system can use to either retrieve or deposit a value.
The __item__ function must not be required to actually retrieve
or deposit the value itself.

I'm not saying it's worth it.  I do think it would be a good
thing if "seq[i] = x" were symmetrical with "x = seq[i]", and
a single indexing function would be a better sequence API, but
the overall effect of a pointer type on the language would be
unfortunate.  Python is already far too complicated.

Really I think that's the main point.  There are some useful
and relevant features that Python doesn't have and will never
have, and that's OK.  The real limitation of any programming
language tends to be its external interfaces - if you really
can't write a decent web browser in FORTRAN-IV, that's probably
the real reason, not any fundamental limitation of the language.
That doesn't mean FORTRAN-IV is a good language, it means that
its badness can't be expressed in terms of fundamental limitations,
so this question of whether you "really need" something tends to
make a poor basis for discussion.

   Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu



From skchim0 at engr.uky.edu  Thu Jul 10 01:47:05 2003
From: skchim0 at engr.uky.edu (satish k.chimakurthi)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 01:47:05 -0400
Subject: LOADING DATA INTO ARRAYS
Message-ID: <200307100147.05841.skchim0@engr.uky.edu>

Hi,

     I am trying to collect the following data in X,Y,Z arrays as following:
    
  1.00000000000000        0.00000000000000D+000   0.00000000000000D+000
  0.932113519778473       0.362166241174114        0.00000000000000D+000
  0.737671227507627       0.675160099611485        0.00000000000000D+000
  0.443073128844408       0.896485472551578        0.00000000000000D+000
   8.83176797852179D-002  0.996092358889152        0.00000000000000D+000
 -0.145819420809848       0.989311223283493        0.00000000000000D+000
 -0.391263558087552       0.920278668726310        0.00000000000000D+000
 -0.625821331717327       0.779966448488364        0.00000000000000D+000
 -0.822296905793933       0.569058695322129        0.00000000000000D+000
 -0.953713306870443       0.300717356163965        0.00000000000000D+000

After loading them into X,Y,Z arrays, I should be in a position to access the 
first line as X[0],Y[0], Z[0] and second line stuff as X[1],Y[1],Z[1].

I have written the following code which is not working for some reason.  Can 
anyone suggest any changes:

ifile1 = open('fluidcylinder', 'r')  #fluidcylinder contains the above data
for line in ifile1:
     xval,yval=string.split(line)
     x.append(xval)
     y.append(yval)

The error I am getting after the compilation is as follows:

 xval,yval=string.split(line)
ValueError: unpack list of wrong size


I would really appreciate if someone can help me with this.

Thanks in advance,

SATISH








From adalke at mindspring.com  Sun Jul 27 19:10:33 2003
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 17:10:33 -0600
Subject: looking for design pattern name
Message-ID: <bg1lt6$81g$1@slb2.atl.mindspring.net>

I'm looking for the name used for a pattern like what Qt uses for
it's container hierarchy.  I'm doing this design for molecules, so I'll
use that as my example.

There's a container, in this case, a Molecule.  A Molecule has Atoms
and Bonds.  When an Atom, it is passed the parent container as
part of the constructor, as in

mol = Molecule()
O1 = Atom(mol, 8)    # note the parent in the constructor
O2 = Atom(mol, 8)
Bond(O1, O2, 2)    # (the parent is implicit - comes from the atoms)

I want to compare this to a design like

mol = Molecule()
O1 = mol.add_atom(8)
O2 = mol.add_atom(8)
mol.add_bond(O1, O2)

which does not allow a user-derived Atom and Bond class

and one like

mol = Molecule()
O1 = Atom(8)
mol.add_atom(O1)
O2 = Atom(8)
mol.add_atom(O2)
b = Bond(2)
mol.add_bond(b)

which allows user-defined types but which has a more
complicated ownership pattern (eg, you can have atoms and
bonds which aren't contents of a Molecule).

Anyone have good names for any of these three styles?

Thanks!

                    Andrew
                    dalke at dalkescientific.com





From max at alcyone.com  Thu Jul 31 13:23:21 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 10:23:21 -0700
Subject: <dict>.setdefault()
References: <kmgiivclivi0vhbgr6adel4dafflq6i6ir@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3F295089.4C9EECFA@alcyone.com>

Tino Lange wrote:

> I just realized that <dict>.setdefault *always* executes the second
> argument - even if it's not necessary, because the requested item in
> the first argument exists.
> 
> This is not what I expected - why evaluate the second argument if it's
> not needed? Also this can lead to side-effects!

Because Python doesn't have macros or special forms that look like
functions.  If you see something that looks like a function, it
evaluates all arguments before it calls the function.  Always.  Changing
this would cause confusion, not resolve it.

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ There's a reason why we / Keep chasing morning
\__/  Sandra St. Victor



From tzot at sil-tec.gr  Mon Jul 21 22:03:12 2003
From: tzot at sil-tec.gr (Christos TZOTZIOY Georgiou)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 05:03:12 +0300
Subject: Python textbook exercises for C/C++ programmers
Message-ID: <qj2phv0k1lq7qm0426s1m04hl3aoro5hrs@4ax.com>

Tests to let you know if you grok "the Python way".
Definition: TOPKA = The Object Presently Known As



[A] Variables/values vs names/objects.

Write a function in C/C++ and one in Python that:
1. accepts an integer as an argument named i (enforced in C/C++, assumed
in Python)
2a. [C/C++] prints the address of the i variable using printf, "%p" and
the & operator
2b. [Python] prints the id of TOPKA i using print and the id() builtin
3. adds 1 to i using the += operator
4a. same as 2a
4b. same as 2b

Explain why the C/C++ function *always* outputs two identical values,
then why the Python function *always* outputs two different values.



[B] Assignment and mutable/immutable confusion.

Fill out the ellipses in the following Python program:

a = ... # any valid expression you like
b = a
# --------------------
# if TOPKA a and/or b is mutable, you are free
# to mutate it here by calling some of its methods
# then ascertain that they still are the same object
# --------------------
b = ... # any valid expression you like
print "a = <%s>" % a
print "b = <%s>" % b

Explain why there is no friggin' way to change TOPKA a by assigning
anything to the name b (hint: you might print two identical strings, but
you can't change TOPKA a.)



[C] "By reference if mutable, by value if immutable" confusion.

Given the following two Python functions:

def foo(arg):
    dummy = arg
    bar(arg)
    assert dummy is arg

def bar(arg):
    try:
        arg = "anything but " + repr(arg)
    except:
        arg = "nice try"

Choose an appropriate mutable or immutable argument so that foo fails at
the assert statement (hint: rewrite python from scratch).



A particular disclaimer by Knuth comes to mind that seems appropriate
here...  anyway, I only wrote this so that, next time someone complains
about how python does things, I can point them to the post; should their
answers satisfy me, I might consider helping them write a PEP to change
things the way they want them to be.

Cheers everyone.
-- 
TZOTZIOY, I speak England very best,
Microsoft Security Alert: the Matrix began as open source.



From alanmk at hotmail.com  Thu Jul 10 09:44:33 2003
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 14:44:33 +0100
Subject: mx odbc
References: <3f0accb5$0$13191$edfadb0f@dread15.news.tele.dk> <mailman.1057680332.32247.python-list@python.org> <3f0bce6d$0$13245$edfadb0f@dread15.news.tele.dk> <un0fnz7fu.fsf@fitlinxx.com> <3f0d32e5$0$13253$edfadb0f@dread15.news.tele.dk> <3F0D4728.45284530@hotmail.com> <3f0d5cfd$0$13154$edfadb0f@dread15.news.tele.dk>
Message-ID: <3F0D6DC1.A7104D1C@hotmail.com>

Kim Petersen wrote:

> It *is* a service - i agree completely and even if i don't use the
> support i'll prolly patch the problem and send the result upstream -
> that really isn't an argument to use in the below. The reason for
> that statement was simply that in opensource situations, we'll 
> _maybe_ locate the bug ourselves (or patch the product to do what
> we want - which *cannot* be done in closed-source) and i'm not
> talking beer!

I agree that it's a good thing that you can find and patch bugs
yourself, because it's open source. But I do feel compelled to point
out that if the patch is to be accepted back into the product, that
requires time from the maintainer, to review your patch, and test it
in all scenarios and on all platforms. I'm sure you appreciate this,
but I think a lot of people don't.

> Regarding the free marked - i agree - against the other - what is it
> *exactly* that makes mxODBC a better quality product - noone has
> seemed to be able to tell (and yes - you do in the above claim that...).

Hmm, I'm not sure I get what you're trying to say here: what do you
mean by "noone has seemed to be able to tell"? If by that you mean
"what is it that makes mxODBC a better quality product", try the
following

1. Continually kept up to date with all versions of python
2. Continually kept up to date with all versions of ODBC standards
3. Continually maintained on a wide variety of platforms
4. Optimal memory and time efficiency because it's mostly coded in C
5. Etc, etc.

If these aren't the kinds of things that make software "better
quality", then I have no idea what you mean.

> So i
> can't even tell my customers that [even if i believed that your
> argument of telling customers about developing methods have any
> substance for them *at all* (its the product that counts - not
> the methods)].

No, it's the method that counts when you're talking about the cost of
development. You complained about how expensive a developer license
for mxODBC was, which is your methods, not your products.

Let's try a simple little thought experiment. Say you hire a
freelancer, and you pay them ?1000/week to work on your product. You
hire them for 6 months, or 26 weeks, so that's ?26,000 that pay your
freelancer.

Now say you get a nasty little bug, that requires detailed
investigation. You're fortunate enough to have a quality freelancer
that is able to find the bug, after 3-4 days of investigation, fix
the bug in 2 days, and then test the fix for another 2 days. So that's
7-8 days, @?200/day. And that's just one bug.

Seems to me that the cost of your software "developer" licenses are
actually quite cost effective after all.

> essence of my argument - the pricing of this *little* (but
> essential) component drives the pricing of the end-product up
> a substantial amount - that imho is not corresponding to the
> usefulnes of the product.[and to use your argument from before -
> i need to find another product then].

No, you're thinking about it all wrong.

This little component, an ODBC driver, *does* correspond to the
"usefulness" (i.e. quality) of the product. Or more correctly, if
one is using a poor quality ODBC driver, then that contributes to
the "uselessness" of one's product.

> Can you mention even on spot where i complained against paying for
> software ? (hint: the amount - not that it has a price).

Kim Petersen wrote:

> I'm not arguing that thats not important - *but* paying 70$ pr.
> customer, is the equivalent of paying you for 1hr of support for
> each customer [not installation mind you], where our own
> licence/supportcost is already getting lower and lower... I find
> that _extremely_ steep

Fair enough, it was the amount you complained about, not that there
was a cost. But is $70 really such a high cost? What percentage of the
end-user cost of your product is required to pay for mxODBC?

> TANSTAAFL!

I think we definitely agree on that.

--
alan kennedy
-----------------------------------------------------
check http headers here: http://xhaus.com/headers
email alan:              http://xhaus.com/mailto/alan



From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Wed Jul  9 11:28:54 2003
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 10:28:54 -0500
Subject: OT: Genetic Algorithm Recipe Bug Fix
In-Reply-To: <beh8ad$dm0$1@news.hccnet.nl> (anton@vredegoor.doge.nl's
 message of "Wed, 09 Jul 2003 16:12:41 +0200")
References: <JwYMa.5801$eF3.719843@news20.bellglobal.com>
	<beh8ad$dm0$1@news.hccnet.nl>
Message-ID: <m2el0z4t3d.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

>>>>> "Anton" == Anton Vredegoor <anton at vredegoor.doge.nl> writes:
    Anton> In the process of finding a heuristic solution to the
    Anton> problem I came to understand your module a bit better and
    Anton> I've also tinkered a bit with it (minor changes) and I have
    Anton> produced a heuristic solution for the submatrix
    Anton> problem. (it counts 59928 zero's, for insiders :-)

Interesting -- my random version of Jon's algorithm with modified
row/col choice criteria found 59928 zeros too.

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&safe=images&threadm=mailman.1057641194.24737.python-list%40python.org&rnum=2&prev=/groups%3Fsafe%3Dimages%26ie%3DUTF-8%26oe%3DUTF-8%26as_uauthors%3Djdhunter%2540ace.bsd.uchicago.edu%26lr%3D%26hl%3Den 


    Anton> If someone is interested it's here:

    Anton> http://home.hccnet.nl/a.vredegoor/twomax

Hmm, now if I can only figure out what it all means :-)

JDH





From P at draigBrady.com  Wed Jul  2 09:37:17 2003
From: P at draigBrady.com (P at draigBrady.com)
Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 14:37:17 +0100
Subject: splitting a string into 2 new strings
In-Reply-To: <bdue2n$m07$1@aspen.sucs.soton.ac.uk>
References: <bdue2n$m07$1@aspen.sucs.soton.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <3F02E00D.4030303@draigBrady.com>

Mark Light wrote:
> Hi,
>       I have a string e.g. 'C6 H12 O6' that I wish to split up to give 2
> strings
> 'C H O' and '6 12 6'.  I have played with string.split() and the re module -
> but can't quite get there.
> 
> Any help would be greatly appreciated.

import re

molecule_re = re.compile("(.+?)([0-9]+)")
def processMolecule(molecule):
     elements=[]
     numbers=[]

     for item in molecule.split():
         element, number = molecule_re.findall(item)[0]
         elements.append(element)
         numbers.append(number)

     elements = ' '.join(elements)
     numbers = ' '.join(numbers)

     return (elements, numbers)

print processMolecule('C6 H12 O6')




From andreas.kuntzagk at mdc-berlin.de  Wed Jul  2 12:11:15 2003
From: andreas.kuntzagk at mdc-berlin.de (Andreas Kuntzagk)
Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 18:11:15 +0200
Subject: os.fork() different in cgi-script?
References: <bdudn2$11c3gt$1@fu-berlin.de> <mailman.1057159925.26703.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bdv08e$11h2tf$1@fu-berlin.de>

>> I googled for this but only found a similar question from 1997 and no
>> answer.
> 
> Which is strange since this common problem and has nothing to do with
> Python.

Not so strange, because assuming a Python feature I also included "python"
in the googlequest(tm).

Andreas




From list.adam at twardoch.com  Tue Jul 15 04:09:06 2003
From: list.adam at twardoch.com (Adam Twardoch)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 10:09:06 +0200
Subject: PDF Parser?
References: <33803989.0307062318.3695d11@posting.google.com> <mailman.1057594451.5654.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bf0dbp$o1l$1@vulkan.euv-frankfurt-o.de>

"John Hunter" <jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu>

> A little more info would be helpful: do you need access to all the pdf
> structures or just the text?  AFAIK, there is no full pdf parser in
> python.

If you need to access the graphical elements, you may use pstoedit to
convert the PDF into SVG (Structured Vector Graphics). Since SVG is XML, you
can then use any Python-based XML toolkit to parse the data.
http://www.pstoedit.net/pstoedit

Adam





From martin at v.loewis.de  Wed Jul 30 17:04:56 2003
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 23:04:56 +0200
Subject: How to get Windows physical RAM using python?
In-Reply-To: <bg92o2$onr$1@news3.bu.edu>
References: <bg90lh$bkp$1@news3.bu.edu> <bg92o2$onr$1@news3.bu.edu>
Message-ID: <bg9btk$5ia$06$1@news.t-online.com>

Mark wrote:

> OK, How to check the amount of Windows physical RAM using python?

You should call the GlobalMemoryStatus(Ex) function. To my knowledge,
there is no Python wrapper for it, yet, so you would need to write one.

Regards,
Martin




From tim.one at comcast.net  Fri Jul  4 00:17:40 2003
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 00:17:40 -0400
Subject: A possible bug in python threading/time module?
In-Reply-To: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCGELJEMAB.tim.one@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCIEMCEMAB.tim.one@comcast.net>

[Tim]
> ...
> I expect there may be a bug *somewhere* in Python because a few
> thousand threads is really far fewer than I expect to create trouble
> on Windows.  The evidence I saw suggested the program actually
> finished all its "useful" work, and got hung in threading.py's
> _MainThread.__exitfunc(), waiting to join one of the worker threads
> at Python shutdown time.

Turns out that the Windows implementation of the Python C API function
PyThread_start_new_thread() contained several "laziness" errors, most
damningly:

1. Not arranging to raise a proper exception if the MS
   _beginthread() function fails (which it can do if many
   threads are created quickly, as the test program does).

2. Not even considering that the Win32 CreateSemaphore() can fail.

3. Not accounting for that, if a great many threads are created
   very quickly, it may in fact take more than 5 seconds for any
   particular bootstrap function to finish.

I'm testing putative fixes on a Win98 box and don't see any hangs any more.
However, with more than about 3000 threads,

    thread.error: can't start new thread

gets raised because MS's _beginthread() fails (with errno == EAGAIN ==
"there are too many threads").





From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Jul  8 09:27:20 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 09:27:20 -0400
Subject: Socket Win32 IO
References: <99071af2.0307070647.6ab3e329@posting.google.com> <3F099791.6AA68B8F@engcorp.com> <99071af2.0307080439.2bacd2d4@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3F0AC6B8.A94C0435@engcorp.com>

jose maria wrote:
> 
> Hello Peter tanks for you attenion and time
> 
> Yes really I forget put in the message one parameter in the function
> I put the traceback and all code I hope that this help you. Thousands
> of pardons for my bad English
> 
> Traceback:
> 
> ActivePython 2.2.1 Build 222 (ActiveState Corp.) based on
> Python 2.2.1 (#34, Apr 15 2002, 09:51:39) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on wi
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more informatio
> >>> from socket import *
> >>> import win32api
> >>> import win32file
> >>> Ip=getprotobyname("ip")
> >>> SIO_RCVALL=0x98000001
> >>> ip=('xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx',0)
> >>> Sock=socket(AF_INET,SOCK_RAW,Ip) #Raw Socket
> >>> Sock.bind(ip) # Bind Socket to ip
> >>> fh=Sock.fileno() # Get file handle
> >>> test=win32file.DeviceIoControl(fh,SIO_RCVALL,"", 0,None) # The
> function
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
> pywintypes.api_error: (1, 'DeviceIoControl', 'Incorrect function.')

I still get a different result (the second of the two that I posted
before) even if I add that "None" argument, not what you show above.
Are you certain you are cutting and pasting *exactly* what you typed?
I note you have 'xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx' above, so presumably you have
edited the transcript manually in at least one way...  any others?

I'm not likely to be able to solve the problem, since I have no idea
what DeviceIoControl is for, nor what you're trying to accomplish. 
I just thought I'd report that I do not get the results you are 
getting when I try what you show you are trying.

-Peter



From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Mon Jul 14 16:22:11 2003
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 14 Jul 2003 16:22:11 -0400
Subject: www.python.org hacked?
References: <5cf68ce0.0307141017.1f3fe18e@posting.google.com> <3F12FA18.B04B400E@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <bev3dj$f15$1@panix2.panix.com>

In article <3F12FA18.B04B400E at engcorp.com>,
Peter Hansen  <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:
>
>Have we been hacked, or is this human error during maintenance?

Yes to both.  :-(  We were actually hacked a while ago, then failed to
do a complete cleanup.  When we got the disk full problem, I attempted
to update the main page so people would know what was going on; I
thought that vi was capable of managing the re-write inplace.  I was
wrong.  We're back on the air, with special thanks to Thomas Wouters for
interrupting his post-OSCON snooze.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"Not everything in life has a clue in front of it...."  --JMS



From rastm2 at aol.commorespam  Mon Jul 28 03:17:20 2003
From: rastm2 at aol.commorespam (Raymond Arthur St. Marie II of III )
Date: 28 Jul 2003 07:17:20 GMT
Subject: Help with Boa on Win98 with unicode installed
References: <Xns93C62C5A6C766JanC@213.119.4.141>
Message-ID: <20030728031720.02490.00000585@mb-m21.aol.com>

>rastm2 at aol.commorespam (Raymond Arthur St. Marie II of III ) schreef:
>
>> Has anyone ever struggeled with that install of Boa in Win98.
>> I've followed the Docs. Tryed the "-E" switch while in DosPrompt. Made
>> sure the wxPython version matched Python version...
>> 
>> What am I missing folks?
>
>Don't use the unicode version of wxPython on Win9x, if that's possible?
>
>Unicode wxPython gives problems on my Win98SE system too, but Boa starts up 
>fine when I run it with ANSI wxPython (didn't try to actually use it yet).
>
>-- 
>JanC
>

And it's JanC to the rescue.
THANKYOU!
It's just like you said it would be! Boa nirvana.

Ray--Rastm2@@OL.completelyunsatisFactory



From roy at panix.com  Mon Jul 14 16:28:22 2003
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: 14 Jul 2003 16:28:22 -0400
Subject: % operator -- did Python or C++/boost come first?
Message-ID: <bev3p6$h4l$1@panix2.panix.com>

Up until recently, Python was the only language I'd ever seen that
used the % operator for string replacement.  Today, I was perusing the
C++ Boost libraries, and discoverd that boost::format uses a very
similar syntax.  The following lines print the same thing in Python
and C++, respectively.

print "int->%i, string->%s" % (42, "wugga, wugga")
cout << boost::format ("int->%i, string->%s\n") % 42 % "wugga, wugga";

The question is, which came first?  Did boost adapt the Python syntax,
or the other way around, or did they both evolve in parallel?  I'm not
talking about the use of % in the C/printf style format specifier, but
the use of % as an operator to connect the format specifier with the
data to be formatted.



From staschuk at telusplanet.net  Wed Jul 16 22:13:20 2003
From: staschuk at telusplanet.net (Steven Taschuk)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 20:13:20 -0600
Subject: hex to signed integer
In-Reply-To: <vhbq0kr6ftvr0e@corp.supernews.com>; from tomg@em.ca on Thu, Jul 17, 2003 at 12:04:36AM -0000
References: <vhbq0kr6ftvr0e@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <20030716201320.C656@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>

Quoth Tom Goulet:
> My question basically is:  What is the opposite of the following?
> | "%08X" % -1

Here's one way, very like what you already have:

    def hex2signed(s):
        return struct.unpack('!i', binascii.unhexlify(s))[0]

(This will not be the inverse of '%08x' % n in Python 2.4, when
'%x' % -1 will produce '-1', but I think it does what you want.)

Another approach:

    def hex2signed(s):
        value = long(s, 16)
        if value > sys.maxint:
            value = value - 2L*sys.maxint - 2
        assert -sys.maxint-1 <= value <= sys.maxint
        return int(value)

-- 
Steven Taschuk     staschuk at telusplanet.net
"Please don't damage the horticulturalist."
         -- _Little Shop of Horrors_ (1960)




From mwh at python.net  Tue Jul 29 07:53:54 2003
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 11:53:54 GMT
Subject: floating point range generator
References: <Xns93B0F0F1A58A2cpl19ghumspamgourmet@62.153.159.134> <oA2Oa.30893$C83.2655519@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <7xwue3lbzy.fsf_-_@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <7O%Ua.8994$AO6.2045@nwrdny02.gnilink.net> <bg3mos$9o5$0@216.39.172.122> <PBdVa.8513$cM6.8178@nwrdny01.gnilink.net> <7x65lmzf20.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <7h3k7a1k0qv.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

Paul Rubin <http://phr.cx at NOSPAM.invalid> writes:

> I see now that that the problem is subtle enough that IMO, a fully
> worked out solution should be written and included in the Python
> library or at least the Python cookbook.

I also think that this is a problem without One True Answer
wrt. endpoint handling which makes a library solution a bit of a
challenge.  Maybe I'm wrong, though (haven't done numeric stuff for a
while now).

Cheers,
mwh

-- 
6. Symmetry is a complexity-reducing concept (co-routines include
   subroutines); seek it everywhere.
  -- Alan Perlis, http://www.cs.yale.edu/homes/perlis-alan/quotes.html



From o_otaotao at hotmail.com  Sun Jul 27 22:14:06 2003
From: o_otaotao at hotmail.com (PythonMan)
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 10:14:06 +0800
Subject: Can't compile, miss  library/modules ............... ?
Message-ID: <bg20tu$k29gj$1@ID-142885.news.uni-berlin.de>

warning: py2exe: * The following modules were not found:
warning: py2exe: *   SOCKS
warning: py2exe: *   rourl2path
warning: py2exe: *   ic

when i compile btdownloadheadless.py of BitTorrent , justmsg is shown , the
souce code should have no error , but why i get such error ? how get back
this modules ? thx~~~

--










From bokr at oz.net  Mon Jul 21 22:06:25 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 22 Jul 2003 02:06:25 GMT
Subject: properties + types, implementing meta-class desciptors elegantly?
References: <mailman.1058532630.7342.python-list@python.org> <7h3znjbzscu.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk> <7h3n0f8yspt.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk> <mailman.1058826934.20903.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bfi671$e6$0@216.39.172.122>

On Mon, 21 Jul 2003 18:33:27 -0400, "Mike C. Fletcher" <mcfletch at rogers.com> wrote:
[...]
>Michael Hudson wrote:
[ ... evil code ... ;-) ]
>
>But really, I don't think either of us will deploy that particular 
>pattern in a production system.  Still, fun proposal, thanks for 
>playing, we have lots of marvelous parting gifts for you :) .
>
>BTW: You know this, but in case others are wondering why it's not usable 
>in real life: it's possible to have threads get/set the value without 
>triggering the descriptor if they happen to ask for it during the period 
>when the descriptor is deleted.
>
Did you have a chance to look at my post (posted ~12+ hours before Michael's,
if you are looking by date/time ;-) (It is threaded as a reply to Aahz in this
thread -- I probably should have split out the section for you ;-/).

It factors property-making and installing in customized classes in a couple ways.
It uses metaclasses, but I'm not sure any of it qualifies as evil ;-)

I guess I should just wait quietly, but I am curious to get your reaction ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From martin at v.loewis.de  Sun Jul 13 09:49:53 2003
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-15?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 13 Jul 2003 15:49:53 +0200
Subject: installing python library modules (general question)
References: <79ad5955.0307122013.6780fc53@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <m3he5qh6ym.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

juliagoolia301 at hotmail.com (Julia Goolia) writes:

> ImportError: libmad.so.0: cannot open shared object file: No such file
> or directory
> 
> I know the file /usr/local/lib/libmad.so.0 exists, but python can't
> seem to find it.  I tried adding this path to LD_LIBRARY_PATH, but
> that didn't help.

Can you please be precise on what "this path" is? Adding
"/usr/local/lib/libmad.so.0" would be wrong, whereas adding
"/usr/local/lib" should work.

> I guess that I just really dont' know enought about libraries and
> linux (redhat 9).  I don't really know where they are supposed to go
> after being compiled, and how python "loads" and uses them.

You might also edit /etc/ld.so.conf to add /usr/local/lib, and run
ldconfig afterwards; this would remove the need to set LD_LIBRARY_PATH

HTH,
Martin



From rnd at onego.ru  Sun Jul  6 03:01:32 2003
From: rnd at onego.ru (Roman Suzi)
Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2003 11:01:32 +0400 (MSD)
Subject: Bewildered graphs
In-Reply-To: <1057446809.1204.20.camel@emilio>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0307061046540.2490-100000@rnd.onego.ru>

Here is ploticus.i file I made 30 minutes ago:

(READ DISCLAIMER AT THE END)

------------------------------------------------------------------
/* ploticus.i */
 %module ploticus
 %{
 /* Put header files here (optional) */
 %}

%name(init) extern ploticus_init( char *device, char *outfilename );
%name(arg) extern ploticus_arg( char *name, char *value );
%name(begin) extern ploticus_begin();
%name(execline) extern ploticus_execline( char *line );
%name(execscript) extern ploticus_execscript( char *scriptfile, int prefab );
%name(end) extern ploticus_end();
%name(setvar) extern ploticus_setvar( char *name, char *value );
%name(getvar) extern ploticus_getvar( char *name, char *value );
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

If you have SWIG, just do this:

0. install SWIG

1. get Ploticus source (plsrc211.tgz in my case) untarred

2. cd plsrc211/src

3. make -f Makefile_api

4. put my ploticus.i into current dir (plsrc211/src)

5. run:   
   swig -python ploticus.i
   gcc -c ploticus_wrap.c -I /usr/local/include/python2.3
   ld -shared ploticus_wrap.o -l gd libploticus.a -o ploticus.so

(/usr/local/include/python2.3 - in my case, your Python could be
somewhere else)

6. check:

   python

>>> import ploticus
>>> dir(ploticus)
['__doc__', '__file__', '__name__', 'arg', 'begin', 'end', 'execline', 
'execscript', 'getvar', 'init', 'setvar']
>>> # do whatever with it


DISCLAIMER:
I never used neither SWIG nor Ploticus before. So it is hard to tell
if ploticus Python wrapper works ;-)


Sincerely yours, Roman Suzi
-- 
rnd at onego.ru =\= My AI powered by GNU/Linux RedHat 7.3





From pinard at iro.umontreal.ca  Wed Jul 23 21:44:12 2003
From: pinard at iro.umontreal.ca (Francois Pinard)
Date: 23 Jul 2003 21:44:12 -0400
Subject: Reading Keyboard Scan Codes
In-Reply-To: <60FB8BB7F0EFC7409B75EEEC13E2019202CE4706@admin56.narex.com>
References: <60FB8BB7F0EFC7409B75EEEC13E2019202CE4706@admin56.narex.com>
Message-ID: <oqd6g0em1f.fsf@alcyon.progiciels-bpi.ca>

[Fran?ois Pinard]

> [...] I do not know if reading scan codes or key codes is easily done
> within X, nor on MS-Windows.  I would like finding or discovering recipes
> in this area.  So, please share your tricks in this area, if any! :-)

[Bjorn Pettersen]

> I'm assuming you can use the msvcrt module:

> >>> def getch():
> ...     import msvcrt
> ...     while not msvcrt.kbhit(): pass
> ...     return msvcrt.getch()
> ...
> >>> getch()
> 'a'
> >>>

This does not give scan codes (or key codes of some sort).  I would like
being able to detect, for example, if Ctrl is being held while Keypad-5
is entered, or any other such (possibly unusual) combination of keys.

-- 
Fran??ois Pinard   http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/~pinard




From ben at dadsetan.com  Thu Jul  3 21:21:26 2003
From: ben at dadsetan.com (Behrang Dadsetan)
Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 02:21:26 +0100
Subject: A story about Python... sort of
References: <3f03f430$0$97222$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk> <KwWMa.3332$Aw.3042@twister.nyc.rr.com> <3f04727e@news.swissonline.ch> <J83Na.31565$fG.15978@sccrnsc01>
Message-ID: <3F04D696.1060305@dadsetan.com>


Russell Reagan wrote:
> "F. GEIGER" <fgeiger at datec.at> wrote
> 
> 
>>[OT] That's not a pro, that's a con on the C++ side. And actually that's
> 
> the
> 
>>reason why there's so much bad C++ software. A C programmer first has to
>>forget C to be able to program in C++ - well, to be able to program OO in
>>C++.
> 
> 
> C++ is not an OO language. It is a multi-paradigm language that happens to
> support OO features. No one is required to program OO in C++. It's even very
> debatable if it's better to program OO in C++. 

We are getting very philosophical here and I guess we are getting a 
little off-topic, but what is an OO language? Isn't one that supports OO 
features? Ok, You can write C code and compile it with a C++ compiler, 
but does it disqualify C++ as being a OO language?

The advantages you talk about writing C and using a C++ compiler are 
pretty weak. C++ is certainly not just about the "typedef" feature... It 
is a very powerfull language that can be used to express exactly what 
you want the computer to do, and in the same time kind of abstract 
details to a level where you can still see what your program was written 
for. Agreed, it is a terrificly complex language all together, but it 
has its use. If you actually respect the thousand rules from M. Meyer 
plus a few from M. Lakos, you can build very reliable and stable 
applications. If you are a genius or have some technique and experience, 
you can even have a somewhat bigger code where you still have an overview.

The big disadvantage to its C compatibility is that lots of people 
beleive they have C++ experience and present themselves at C++ jobs. You 
just need an IT management which has no clue about OO technology/C++ 
(managers that understand anything at this level are in minority) and 
you soon have a C programmer who used a C++ compiler converted into a 
Java programmer. Little after you will see something really funny, C 
compiled by a Java programmer. Is Java therefore not a OO language? I 
mean Java will allow C programmers to build classes with only static 
methods, with classes of 6000 lines without constructor and all 
variables declared as public class members? I have seen this, and I am 
not exagerating at all in the description... it actually took me two 
days to understand why I did not understand how the programmer cut the 
program. Yes, I was naive enough to think one can only write OO in Java, 
like in the advert.

Anyway, let us talk about something else, I hate being reminded how 
often our IT industry has been guarenteeing our jobs life-time by making 
every thing more complicated and more expensive instead of making things 
simpler and cheaper as we were entrusted to do. Note that I do not think 
we do that on purpose :-)

That said, python does make life easier in many occasions, so there is 
maybe some hope that a little tiny community of our IT industry is not 
reaping off our dear sponsors (IT users including IT people).

Thanks pyguys for your beautiful contribution, please continue just as 
you are now. You have been doing a wonderful job. If you could only 
replace VB for all the usages it has now, and convince the planet of 
that as well, I would be thankful for ever. :)

Ben.




From rnd at onego.ru  Tue Jul 22 06:33:41 2003
From: rnd at onego.ru (Roman Suzi)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 14:33:41 +0400 (MSD)
Subject: [OT] SCO is Going After End Users
In-Reply-To: <23891c90.0307220139.1909fc63@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0307221425160.12266-100000@suzi.com.onego.ru>

On 22 Jul 2003, Paul Boddie wrote:

> clpy.NOSPAM at russellsalsbury.com (Russ Salsbury) wrote in message news:<4868482a.0307211336.4ca9493a at posting.google.com>...
> > 
> > I realize that this is OT, but SCO's action strikes at the heart of
> > Open Source.  Somebody with the right patents can try to tax or shut
> > down the rest of us, regardless of the validity of their claims.  If
> > IBM, Red Hat, and the  decide that the the cost of settling is less
> > than the cost of litigation, we all loose.  Fortunally, the claim
> > against IBM is so big, $3B that they may fight it instead of settling.
 
> But thanks for the reminder that we really are lucky to be able to use
> technologies and tools like Python, that the climate in which they
> have been developed has so far been favourable to such innovation, and
> that we should strive to maintain such a favourable environment
> through the appropriate forums and channels.

I hope GvR never put any propriatary Fortran, Pascal or Basic source code
into Python. Otherwise SCO-like firms will claim they own Python because
of for-loop and some comments they found in Python source, representing
their best IP to date.


Sincerely yours, Roman A.Suzi
-- 
 - Petrozavodsk - Karelia - Russia - mailto:rnd at onego.ru -
 





From JensRie at gmx.de  Thu Jul 10 07:56:41 2003
From: JensRie at gmx.de (Jens Riedel)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 13:56:41 +0200
Subject: Zope problem:  objectValues('Folder')
References: <3F0D11C7.4010805@gmx.de> <3F0D21D4.3040902@mxm.dk> <3F0D2405.1070606@gmx.de> <3F0D2EAC.2010605@mxm.dk> <3F0D4C74.5040304@gmx.de> <3F0D500A.8010108@mxm.dk>
Message-ID: <3F0D5479.6090401@gmx.de>

Max M schrieb:

>>I used the objectValues('Folder')-method in a DTML-method named 
>>'navigation'. I include <dtml-var navigation> in a 
>>'standard_html_header' DTML method, and this standard_html_header is 
>>used in the index_html document.

> Does it work if you render only the navigation method?

Yes, that's what confuses me. The navigation works completely if I call 
it with http://localhost:8080/ZopeZoo/navigation, also the 
standard_html_header does. But when I include it in the index_html, the 
list of folders vanishes, the rest of navigation works.


> Also, you will find it much easier to find replies to Zope questions on 
> the zope mailing list.

thanx for the hint, I'll try it.

regards,
Jens






From alanmk at hotmail.com  Thu Jul 31 06:07:46 2003
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 11:07:46 +0100
Subject: RELEASED Python 2.3 (final)
References: <mailman.1059523523.23534.python-list@python.org> <3f27bacd$0$49113$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl> <c76ff6fc.0307301323.62f3ccd6@posting.google.com> <bg9hgu$k31$1@panix2.panix.com> <38ec68a6.0307301828.7310e01b@posting.google.com> <Ol%Va.2860$cI2.2543@nwrdny01.gnilink.net>
Message-ID: <3F28EA71.6A863E7@hotmail.com>

[Carl Banks]
> Am I the only person to say "kudoi to everyone"?

I've never heard anyone say "kudoi". But I suppose it's all about
whether you consider "kudos" to be singular or plural. If it's
singular, then "kudoi" is the only correct (Greek) plural of the
(Greek) singular "kudos".

So all of those Americans who seem intent on turning "kudos" into the
plural of "kudo" (which does not exist, yet) should heed your advice
:-) 

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=kudos

But, of course, the main point of the whole thread is to confer kudos,
i.e. "acclaim or praise for exceptional achievement", on the Python
Development Team.

Thanks People!

regards,

-- 
alan kennedy
-----------------------------------------------------
check http headers here: http://xhaus.com/headers
email alan:              http://xhaus.com/mailto/alan



From max at alcyone.com  Tue Jul  1 00:00:07 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 21:00:07 -0700
Subject: Identity inconsistency and unification of types and classes
References: <6f03c4a5.0306301943.d822a6d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3F010747.EB2DC633@alcyone.com>

Rim wrote:

> With the great unification of types and classes, what will happen to
> the
> following identity inconsistency?
> 
> >>> class myint(int): pass
> ...
> >>> a=int(1); b=int(1)
> >>> a is b
> 1
> >>> a=myint(1); b=myint(1)
> >>> a is b
> 0

Whether or not int(1) is int(1) is purely an optimization issue, so one
wonders why one would be concerned about it.

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ They have rights who dare defend them.
\__/  Roger Baldwin



From ianb at colorstudy.com  Mon Jul 21 13:40:56 2003
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: 21 Jul 2003 12:40:56 -0500
Subject: Google URLs (was: Re: Dr. Dobb's Python-URL! - weekly Python news
	and links (Jul 21))
In-Reply-To: <vhne9r38jpsq8a@corp.supernews.com>
References: <vhne9r38jpsq8a@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <1058809255.28066.3576.camel@lothlorien>

Here are the corrected Google URLs:

On Mon, 2003-07-21 at 04:58, Irmen de Jong wrote:
>      Raymond Hettinger intrigues with the second episode of a series of
>      mysterious Python puzzles.

http://groups.google.com/groups?threadm=VorQa.15236$Kw1.587 at nwrdny02.gnilink.net

>      Tom Plunket starts a huge thread about the way Python treats
>      objects, names, variables, assignment, references and what not.
>      Various people have different opinions about what would be the best
>      way to do things, but in the end, the QOTW of Tim Roberts (above)
>      kind of says it all.

http://groups.google.com/groups?threadm=13t0hvsb7idh0g6ac3upe5k0qd6flc17ah at 4ax.com

>      Michele Simionato likes to have an endswith method that accepts a
>      list of strings, instead of a single string argument. But things are
>      not that easy.

http://groups.google.com/groups?threadm=2259b0e2.0307200604.44d343f4 at posting.google.com

>      Alan Kennedy shows what you might do if you need to build a list of
>      database rows (from a query), without allocating the list beforehand
>      because you don't know the size. He uses an iterator to do the trick.
>          <http://groups.google.com/groups?threadm=3D3F16B745.9CF3EF54 at hotmail.com>

http://groups.google.com/groups?threadm=3F16B745.9CF3EF54 at hotmail.com

>      Andrew Kuchling has started a mailing list for discussion about
>      Python Web frameworks.
>          <http://www.amk.ca/mailman/listinfo/pyweb/>
>      This is partly because perhaps Python needs a single 'standard' way
>      to create web applications, as Andy Robinson points out.

http://groups.google.com/groups?threadm=d5mm9v8em9j41kus2tvj2raipd7dagv18k%404ax.com







From alanmk at hotmail.com  Wed Jul 16 09:25:31 2003
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 14:25:31 +0100
Subject: XML <=> Database
References: <mailman.1058352745.26918.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3F15524B.C4904536@hotmail.com>

vivek at cs.unipune.ernet.in wrote:

> Is there any module available which does the same work as the XML
> Integrator in Java. 

I don't know about XML Integrator.

However, I do know that there are a million and one ways to address
the problem of mapping XML (i.e. hierarchical object) structures to
RDBMS (i.e. table) structures.

There's a chap called Ron Bourret who has been working hard in this
area since the early days of XML. He also wrote and maintains an open
source Java product called "XML-DBMS" which allows one to explicitly
specify a mapping from XML to RDBMS and vice versa. You can find out
more information here

http://www.rpbourret.com/

Ron also maintains an *extremely* comprehensive page on the different
ways to tackle the problem, and the list of products that employ the
various approaches. You can read that page here

http://www.rpbourret.com/xml/XMLDatabaseProds.htm

Note that there are three products listed on that page using the name
"Integrator", any one of which, or none of which, might be the "XML
Integrator" you inquired about.

HTH,

-- 
alan kennedy
-----------------------------------------------------
check http headers here: http://xhaus.com/headers
email alan:              http://xhaus.com/mailto/alan



From mis6 at pitt.edu  Wed Jul 30 17:13:53 2003
From: mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato)
Date: 30 Jul 2003 14:13:53 -0700
Subject: Python debugger
References: <VjUVa.1408$MK3.89@newssvr22.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <2259b0e2.0307301313.28426c1b@posting.google.com>

"Andrew Chalk" <achalk at XXXmagnacartasoftware.com> wrote in message news:<VjUVa.1408$MK3.89 at newssvr22.news.prodigy.com>...
> I am sure that it has been asked before but could someone tell a newbie
> whether there is a Python debugger out there?
> 
> In case it is relevant, i am using v2.2 on Windows.
> 
> Many thanks.

idle has a debugger.

 M.S.



From wayne at mishre.com  Mon Jul  7 09:10:55 2003
From: wayne at mishre.com (Wayne Pierce)
Date: 7 Jul 2003 06:10:55 -0700
Subject: NNTP mirror of c.l.p?
Message-ID: <2a897f11.0307070510.37a4ad41@posting.google.com>

Does anyone know if there is a public server where I can download
c.l.p?  I typically use GG, but want to test a program on my
Palm-based system for accessing NNTP servers.

Thanks,

-Wayne



From webmaster at beyond-thoughts.com  Wed Jul  9 06:32:27 2003
From: webmaster at beyond-thoughts.com (Christoph Becker-Freyseng)
Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 12:32:27 +0200
Subject: Python Global Constant
In-Reply-To: <3F0BE68B.893EB7E5@engcorp.com>
References: <mailman.1057737013.30246.python-list@python.org> <3F0BE68B.893EB7E5@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <3F0BEF3B.2020505@beyond-thoughts.com>

>>*** module any ***
>>import dirs;
>>def CheckDir(Dir):
>>  if Dir=dirs.Const_Up: xxx
> 
> 
> This code should work fine, although you might want to follow
> the Python conventions ........

What about using __builtins__ wouldn't make this the constant really global?


cbf





From usenet_spam at janc.invalid  Thu Jul 10 00:07:16 2003
From: usenet_spam at janc.invalid (JanC)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 04:07:16 GMT
Subject: Sample Web application (Re: Python vs PHP)
References: <mailman.1057574470.1750.python-list@python.org> <kmolgv4mp12o71ocion7ra0m2s9fcrqjdk@4ax.com> <begc78$rui$1@mawar.singnet.com.sg> <VLicnfImRJLPkpGiRTvUqA@speakeasy.net> <behc69$o3t$1@news1.wdf.sap-ag.de> <mailman.1057772055.6056.python-list@python.org> <tYqcnZji2bzS5ZGiRTvUqg@speakeasy.net> <mailman.1057803386.15409.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Xns93B43E448BCD4JanC@213.118.75.80>

Moshe Zadka <m at moshez.org> schreef:

> [I was *shocked* to discover, for example, I can't associate
> all .html files in a directory with PHP. I am sure it is a great
> visibility booster for PHP to have pages end with .php, but I didn't
> care much for it.] 

I have no problems doing that with Apache?

Just create a .htaccess (or whatever it is on your system) in that 
directory and put the following line in it:

  AddType application/x-httpd-php .html

Also make sure httpd.conf allows you to define types in a .htaccess file.
If you want, you can set the "local AddType" in httpd.conf too, I think.


(Tested with Apache 1.3.27 + PHP 4.3.0 on my Win98 desktop)

-- 
JanC

"Be strict when sending and tolerant when receiving."
RFC 1958 - Architectural Principles of the Internet - section 3.9



From bgailer at alum.rpi.edu  Thu Jul 17 09:41:06 2003
From: bgailer at alum.rpi.edu (Bob Gailer)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 07:41:06 -0600
Subject: list() coercion
In-Reply-To: <338366A6D2E2CA4C9DAEAE652E12A1DE8D3D5C@au3010avexu1.global
 .avaya.com>
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20030717073907.01c3ee70@66.28.54.253>

At 10:42 AM 7/17/2003 +1000, Delaney, Timothy C (Timothy) wrote:

> > From: Ian Bicking [mailto:ianb at colorstudy.com]
> >
> > Is there a way I can keep this from happening?  Maybe something list()
> > tries first that I can make fail.  (I notice list() catches any
> > exceptions in __len__ and then will just skip that step)
>
>Simplest thing is probably:
>
>ll = MyListLikeObject()
>li = iter(ll)
>l = list(li)
>
>i.e. explicitly create an iterator (which doesn't have a __len__) and 
>create the list from that.
>
>OTOH, if the problem is that creating the iterator is causing the problem 
>(calling __len__), you may need to create a proxy object that doesn't have 
>a __len__ and call list() on that.

I have just read the docs 2.2.5 Iterator Types. Unfortunately this page 
seems to be written for someone who already understands the page. Is there 
any other explanation or examples?

Bob Gailer
bgailer at alum.rpi.edu
303 442 2625
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From jarausch at igpm.rwth-aachen.de  Thu Jul 31 06:11:54 2003
From: jarausch at igpm.rwth-aachen.de (Helmut Jarausch)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 12:11:54 +0200
Subject: Exploring a ftp with python to find pdf
In-Reply-To: <pan.2003.07.31.07.14.37.563162@skynet.be>
References: <pan.2003.07.31.07.14.37.563162@skynet.be>
Message-ID: <3F28EB6A.1070700@igpm.rwth-aachen.de>

conatic wrote:
> I want to make a script that connect to a ftp and get a list of all pdf 
> stored in the ftp with their path to use the list later.
> 
> I have tried some script with recursion but can't do something good.
> Could you help ?

I don't know if there's something similar to wget or ncftp in Python.
Have you looked at the ftplib module and at the script
dist/src/Tools/scripts/ftpmirror.py  in the Python Source distribution?


-- 
Helmut Jarausch

Lehrstuhl fuer Numerische Mathematik
RWTH - Aachen University
D 52056 Aachen, Germany




From martin at v.loewis.de  Fri Jul 25 18:17:07 2003
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-15?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 26 Jul 2003 00:17:07 +0200
Subject: LGPL and Java, and Python?
References: <slrnbi275k.2ce.alf@largo.fayauffre.org>
Message-ID: <m3el0exndo.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Alexandre Fayolle <alf at fayauffre.org> writes:

> Could anyone confirm or infirm this impression?
 
To answer that question, one would need to know on what grounds the
FSF lawyer has decided that section 6b) of the LGPL is inapplicable to
Java.

Regards,
Martin




From gh at ghaering.de  Thu Jul 10 11:41:39 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 17:41:39 +0200
Subject: delete file from python cgi
In-Reply-To: <2c6431ab.0307100711.780a65ad@posting.google.com>
References: <2c6431ab.0307100711.780a65ad@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3F0D8933.8070401@ghaering.de>

lamar_air wrote:
> I have a python script and i want to delete a file on my computer
> c:\....\...\.. .txt what's the script to do this?  I know how to write
> to files but i also need to know how to delete a file.

os.unlink() or os.remove(). They're the same.

-- Gerhard




From shannon at news.widomaker.com  Tue Jul  8 15:21:31 2003
From: shannon at news.widomaker.com (Charles Shannon Hendrix)
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 15:21:31 -0400
Subject: Collective memory
References: <mailman.1057083728.8224.python-list@python.org> <vg88va53uha8e@corp.supernews.com> <hff5eb.e9h.ln@escape.shannon.net> <3F082031.3010503@netscape.netNOTthisBIT> <bec993c8.0307080602.7d5d132e@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <rj5feb.2hq.ln@escape.shannon.net>

In article <bec993c8.0307080602.7d5d132e at posting.google.com>, Tim Shoppa wrote:

> And it's not the same as Makefiles, either.  Everybody has at one time
> been bitten by how 8 spaces is not at all the same in a Makefile as
> one tab; and it doesn't help that with many editing/viewing tools that it
> is impossible to see the difference.

Listing one bad thing to defend another?

I hate that part of make too.  

However, its very easy to tab a makefile properly, because the logic
is implicit in the rule sets.  You just find each rule and indent its
members properly.  It's not ambiguous.

You also get an error... in Python, you'll just have a different flow of
logic, which may or may not show errors.

As long as you are strict and careful, Python is OK, but I will likely
never like invisible flow-control characters.  In makefiles either... :)

>> > Python uses it for actually determining the logic in your program, which
>> > IMHO is dangerous.
> 
> Again, it is certainly no use than Makefiles.

Heh heh... I agree...

>> Well, no matter WHAT the language, I find tabs are evil little things 
>> that introduce special cases and the need for code to handle them.
> 
> Compare that to all the punctuation marks that *some* other languages require.
> Remember the Dilbert where PHB complains that his programmers are using
> way too many semicolons? :-)

Don't get me started on code reviews by non-programmers.

Somewhere I have one saved, that I still can't figure out.



-- 
UNIX/Perl/C/Pizza____________________s h a n n o n at wido !SPAM maker.com


-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----



From rtomes at ihug.co.nz  Thu Jul  3 06:13:24 2003
From: rtomes at ihug.co.nz (Ray Tomes)
Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 22:13:24 +1200
Subject: zip() or what?
References: <3F03AFA8.7030905@ihug.co.nz> <3F03B4DB.545DC6B5@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <3F0401C4.1010306@ihug.co.nz>

Erik Max Francis wrote:
> Ray Tomes wrote:
>>request to flip array ...

> 	zip(*x)

>>Alternatively, is there a construct to get x[*][i] if you know what I
>>mean?

> 	[i[1] for i in x]

Thanks Erik, these do just what I want.
I can understand the 2nd one, but I don't get the meaning of the * in the 
first. Is this like the opposite of putting [] around something or what?
Under what circumstances can an * be used like this, and what is it 
called? - I don't know how to look for it in the docs :-)

also, ...

achrist at easystreet.com wrote:
 > Ray Tomes wrote:
 >>This I am trying to flip an array around so that the "subscripts" happen
 >>in the opposite order

 > 	[x[-i-1] for i in range(len(x))]

Thanks Al, but that was not the flip I was looking for sorry - I hadn't 
realised it could be taken another way. I wanted to swap the subscripts 
with each other (a 45 degree reflection) not within one subscript end to 
end (a 90 degree reflection). Erik has done the one I wanted.




From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Wed Jul  9 13:56:09 2003
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 12:56:09 -0500
Subject: LOADING DATA INTO ARRAYS
In-Reply-To: <200307100147.05841.skchim0@engr.uky.edu> ("satish
 k.chimakurthi"'s message of "Thu, 10 Jul 2003 01:47:05 -0400")
References: <200307100147.05841.skchim0@engr.uky.edu>
Message-ID: <m2u19v37pi.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

>>>>> "satish" == satish k chimakurthi <skchim0 at engr.uky.edu> writes:

    satish> I have written the following code which is not working for
    satish> some reason.  Can anyone suggest any changes:
[snip]
    satish>  xval,yval=string.split(line) ValueError: unpack list of
    satish> wrong size

The problem is with this line of code.

     xval,yval=string.split(line)

As the error indicates you are unpacking the results of the split
(which has 3 elements x,y,z) into 2 variables xval, yval.  You need to
do

   xval, yval, zval = line.split()

But then xval, yval and zval are strings and I bet you want them to be
floats.  So this would be better

   xval, yval, zval = map(float, line.split())

Finally, if you are doing number crunching, you will be much happier
with Numeric http://pfdubois.com/numpy/.  If holding the whole list in
memory is not a problem before initializing to array, you can do

  from Numeric import array
  a = array([float(val) for val in line.split() 
                        for line in file('myfile.dat')])

This uses list comprehensions rather than map to do the float
conversions but it's the same idea.

Now you can access the first row with a[0], or the first column with
a[:,0], etc....

Numeric comes with lots of support for analysis, etc...  In addition,
many of the python plotting packages and other analysis packages are
designed to work with Numeric.

JDH




From alanmk at hotmail.com  Fri Jul  4 10:36:11 2003
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 15:36:11 +0100
Subject: CGI script is in plain text
References: <3F04B0A4.32692.3596CD0@localhost> <mailman.1057299249.5855.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3F0590DB.8EE8D7CF@hotmail.com>

BMA TRADING wrote:

>>> When  I start CGI script from a web browser, the result is
>>> plain text( the copy of that script)

Ian Bicking wrote:

>> Try renaming the file to .cgi -- as long as the #! line is right, it
>> doesn't matter the extension.  Also, you may have to put the script in
>> the cgi-bin directory.

BMA TRADING wrote:

> Thank you for your reply.
> I tried to rename it but it does NOT work.
> In the same directory I can successfully run Perl script( .pl
> extension) but no Python scripts. Any idea?

Quick sanity check: You are sending a content-type from the script?
e.g. you have code like this in your script?

print "Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1"
print

-- 
alan kennedy
-----------------------------------------------------
check http headers here: http://xhaus.com/headers
email alan:              http://xhaus.com/mailto/alan



From gh at ghaering.de  Wed Jul  2 11:14:54 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 17:14:54 +0200
Subject: ASP
In-Reply-To: <b3116c54.0307020255.369599ef@posting.google.com>
References: <b3116c54.0307020255.369599ef@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bdusrk$11191s$1@ID-124666.news.dfncis.de>

Padam Jain wrote:
> Q1.How do u generated GUID's in Asp Pages

Enter "python guid" into Google.

> Q2.How do u pass x-y coordinates to ASP Pages when u click on an
> Image.

Not a Python question, please use a HTML/JavaScript group. It's called 
an image map if you're looking for the right keywords for a search engine.

> Q3.How do u call a VBScript function in an Anchor Tag.

Not a Python question. I'd suggest you ask in a HTML or M$ VBScripg group.

> Q4.How do u access Object Instance or a variable in another Frame.

Again, not a Python question.

> [...]

-- Gerhard




From jhaveri at usc.edu  Tue Jul  1 18:36:11 2003
From: jhaveri at usc.edu (jinal jhaveri)
Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 15:36:11 -0700
Subject: Circular Inheritance
Message-ID: <234cc7238020.238020234cc7@usc.edu>

Hi All,

I have one question regarding circular inheritance

I have 3 files

1) A.py , having module A and some other modules
2) B.py having module B and some other modules
3) C.py having module C and some other modules

Now I want to import Module C in B.py

but C requires A.py 
and A requires B.py

so 

B requires C
C requires A
A requires B

and when I try to do this using 

from ...import....
it tells me that you cannot import this. 

So any suggestions on this?

thank you
Jinal






From hokiegal99 at hotmail.com  Mon Jul 14 19:51:28 2003
From: hokiegal99 at hotmail.com (hokiegal99)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 19:51:28 -0400
Subject: Which Python Book
Message-ID: <3F134200.8060708@hotmail.com>

I have an option, I can buy either O'reilly's "Python in a Nutshell" or 
"Python Cookbook", but not both. Which book is better? I'm leaning 
toward "Python Cookbook" right now, as it seems more applied. A college 
professor once told me that Romans liked to build roads while Greeks 
liked to talk about *how* to build roads. I'm more of a Roman than a Greek.

I've found that I learn better when I look at actual programs written to 
solve problems, instead of abstract, theorhetical code that could be 
used to solve problems. I guess it would be best if I could take the 
abstract, theorhectical code and apply it to real-world problems, but 
that's a bit of a leap for me... don't get me wrong, I can do it, but it 
takes me longer than it does if I've already seen the code applied in a 
practical fashion.

Thanks for any suggestions!




From bac at OCF.Berkeley.EDU  Wed Jul  9 18:14:29 2003
From: bac at OCF.Berkeley.EDU (Brett C.)
Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 15:14:29 -0700
Subject: python-dev Summary for 2003-06-01 through 2003-06-30
Message-ID: <3F0C93C5.4030401@ocf.berkeley.edu>

python-dev Summary for 2003-06-01 through 2003-06-30
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
This is a summary of traffic on the `python-dev mailing list`_ from June 
1, 2003 through June 30, 2003.  It is intended to inform the wider 
Python community of on-going developments on the list and to have an 
archived summary of each thread started on the list.  To comment on 
anything mentioned here, just post to python-list at python.org or 
`comp.lang.python`_ with a subject line mentioning what you are 
discussing. All python-dev members are interested in seeing ideas 
discussed by the community, so don't hesitate to take a stance on 
something.  And if all of this really interests you then get involved 
and join `python-dev`_!

This is the eighteenth/nineteenth summary written by Brett Cannon (has 
his own room with a door for the first time in his life).

All summaries are archived at http://www.python.org/dev/summary/ .

Please note that this summary is written using reStructuredText_ which 
can be found at http://docutils.sf.net/rst.html .  Any unfamiliar 
punctuation is probably markup for reST_ (otherwise it is probably 
regular expression syntax or a typo =); you can safely ignore it, 
although I suggest learning reST; its simple and is accepted for `PEP 
markup`_.  Also, because of the wonders of programs that like to 
reformat text, I cannot guarantee you will be able to run the text 
version of this summary through Docutils_ as-is unless it is from the 
original text file.

.. _PEP Markup: http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0012.html

The in-development version of the documentation for Python can be found 
at http://www.python.org/dev/doc/devel/ and should be used when wanting 
to look up any documentation on something mentioned here.  Python PEPs 
(Python Enhancement Proposals) are located at 
http://www.python.org/peps/ .  To view files in the Python CVS online, 
go to http://cvs.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/python/ .

.. _python-dev: http://www.python.org/dev/
.. _python-dev mailing list: 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev
.. _comp.lang.python: http://groups.google.com/groups?q=comp.lang.python
.. _Docutils: http://docutils.sf.net/
.. _reST:
.. _reStructuredText: http://docutils.sf.net/rst.html

.. contents::


.. _last summary: 
http://www.python.org/dev/summary/2003-05-16_2003-05-31.html


=====================
Summary Announcements
=====================
I lost Internet on the morning of June 18 and did not regain it until 
June 29.  Since it was so close to the end of the month I decided to 
just combine the next summary into this month-long summary.

During my Internet blackout that reminded me of the days back when I 
spent my days playing video games and watching television, my future 
life as a graduate student began to form.  Since I am going to have the 
joy of taking three upper-division undergraduate courses this upcoming 
fall semester I don't think I am going to have the time to do the 
summaries when school starts, at least in the capacity I am doing them 
currently.

At minimum I suspect I will have to cut back on the depth of them since 
I refuse to put the summaries before hacking on the core (hacking is 
more fun and I would like to think I can contribute more to Python that 
way).  If you want this job I will be willing to give it up starting in 
September (I want a full year's worth of summaries behind me before I am 
willing to pass the torch).  But if no one takes it I can probably 
continue to do them in a rather informal way by summarizing only big 
threads that I find interesting until someone steps forward to do a 
good, thorough job.

If you *really* want to do the summaries at the same level of depth as I 
am currently doing them and are interested in taking over starting in 
September, give me an email at brett at python.org .


================================================
`Descriptor write-up [Draft:  Please comment]`__
================================================
__ http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-June/035922.html

Related threads:
     - `Descriptor write-up [second draft]`__

__ http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-June/035936.html

Raymond Hettinger has written an paper on descriptors covering what they 
are to how to write your own.  Since not only are properties class 
methods, static methods, and 'super' object descriptors (more on the 
last one later on in this summary) but descriptors are used throughout 
Python now to create bound objects for functions, methods, etc.

It would behoove all serious Python programmers to read 
http://users.rcn.com/python/download/Descriptor.htm .


======================================
`Where to put the interrupt module?`__
======================================
__ http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-June/036265.html

Not earth-shattering, but to make sure that people know when new things 
are added to the stdlib I figured I should make this thread have a 
full-blown summary.

Thanks to the development work on IDLEfork_, a new function in the 
thread module called interrupt_main has been added.  It raises 
KeyboardInterrupt in the main thread of a program.  The reason the 
exception is KeyboardInterrupt and not some new exception is because 
KeyboardInterrupt is the only asynchronous error in Python.

There was discussion of making it much more general, which led to the 
PyThreadState_SetAsyncState API that allows the raising of an exception 
in another thread.

.. _IDLEfork: http://idlefork.sf.net/


==========================================
`Can't compile _tkinter.c with Redhat 9`__
==========================================
__ http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-June/036277.html

`Red Hat`_, apparently, modified their distribution of Tcl_ so as to 
support `UCS-4`_ text encoding so that their distribution of Python 2.2 
could be compiled with UCS-4 support.  Problem is that this does not 
allow Python to compile with UCS-2 support; you **have** to compile with 
UCS-4 support and not UCS-2 under Red Hat 9 with their custom version of 
Tcl.

Thanks to Martin v. L?wis, 2.3 has been modified so that Python compiled 
in either UCS-4 or UCS-2 will work with standard Tcl which is UCS-2 
natively.

.. _Red Hat: http://www.redhat.com/
.. _Tcl: http://www.tcl.tk/
.. _UCS-4: http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/UCS-4


===========
`PEP-317`__
===========
__ http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-June/036027.html

Splintered threads:
     - `Exception masking/chaining`__

__ http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-June/036070.html

A discussion of PEP 317 broke out on python-dev.  You can read the PEP 
for details but it advocated removing string exceptions (they are going 
to be gone in Python 3) and implicit exception instantiation (that is 
not changing).  The PEP was eventually rejected and has the details of 
why it was rejected in the end.

Part of this discussion forked off to discuss exception masking.  The 
idea came up that it might be nice for an exception to keep a reference 
to a previous exception that was still uncaught at that point.  An 
example is an exception in the function passed to map; the function gets 
returned without knowing that it was in map.  Masking it wouldn't work 
though since you then wouldn't know about the error in the function 
itself.  But if there was a way to raise an exception from map that 
reference the original exception from the function then no information 
would be lost.  Chaining the exceptions together would most likely just 
be sticking the previous exception in an attribute of the new one.  This 
was all originally discussed `in January 
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-January/032492.html>`__ 
and `February 
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-February/032864.html>`__ 
of this year.

There was also discussion of adding the traceback for an exception as an 
attribute of the exception.  This would make getting respective 
tracebacks easier period but also easier if exception chaining was 
implemented.  The traceback would most likely be attached to the 
exception when it is caught and not at instantiation.

Both of these ideas are just that, ideas.  They most likely won't occur 
until exceptions are moved over to new-style classes which probably 
won't be for a while.


===========================
`towards a faster Python`__
===========================
__ http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-June/036059.html

Related threads:
   - `problem with assignment shadows builtin warning`__

__ http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-June/036422.html

A new warning has been added to Python for when you inject an attribute 
into a module to shadows a built-in::

     import os
     os.open = 42

This is in hopes of making this kind of thing illegal so as to allow the 
bytecode to be optimized for accessing built-ins.  It also led to 
package imports, such as ``import A.B.C`` to work directly on the 
namespace dict instead of doing essentially ``setattr(A, 'B', A.B); 
setattr(A.B, 'C', A.B.C)``.


============================
`Sneaky 'super' instances`__
============================
__ http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-June/036155.html

Splinter threads:
     - `PEP 246 and Protocols`__

__ http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-June/036235.html

Discovering that an instance to the 'super' type is both an instance of 
a class *and* a non-data descriptor was causing issues for pydoc and 
inspect led to the question of whether there was any definitive way to 
tell whether an object was an instance of a class defined by using the 
'class' statement in Python.  It turns out there is: if 
object.__class__.__flags__ >> 9 & 1 is 1 (which is the 
Py_TPFLAGS_HEAPTYPE in C) *and* its metaclass is or a subclass of type.

This then spawned a discussion about protocols and interfaces (which was 
discussed once way back when under the title `type categories`_) since 
protocols could supposedly allow one to define a protocol for what makes 
up a 'super' instance.  None of this will get into the language (if it 
ever gets in) until Guido can really think it through and that will be a 
while.

.. _type categories:

===================================
`Details on Python shutting down`__
===================================
__ http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-June/036386.html

What happens while Python is shutting down?  Well, it calls Py_Finalize 
in Python/pythonrun.c .  This means that signals are turned off, 
gc.collect is called, calls PyImport_Cleanup in Python/import.c, and 
then calls. gc.collect one more time.

PyImport_Cleanup is where modules are torn down.  __main__ is deleted, 
then everything but sys and __builtin__, and then sys and __builtin__ 
(in that order).  Now "deletion" as mentioned he is setting the module 
to None in sys.modules, setting all names starting with a single 
underscore to None in the module, and then all others sans __builtins__ .

This is why when you define a __del__ method you need to make sure that 
all things referenced in it are local; global names in the module will 
have been set to None by the time the code is called if the object is 
collected during shutdown and raise an exception.


==================================================================
`Re: [Python-checkins] python/dist/src/Objectslistobject.c,2.15`__
==================================================================
__ http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-June/036445.html

list.index now has optional start and end arguments.


==========================
`RELEASED: Python 2.3b2`__
==========================
__ http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-June/036623.html

Related threads:
   - `2.3b2 this weekend`__
   - `Python 2.3b2 branch tag created`__

__ http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-June/036596.html
__ http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-June/036614.html

Title says it all.  Big thing with this beta release is the new version 
of IDLE.  As with all betas, please download it and give it a whirl to 
try to shake out any bugs that need fixing *ASAP*; we are going to aim 
for an August 1 release date for final thanks to Apple planning to 
incorporate Python 2.3 into Panther_.

.. _Panther: http://www.apple.com/macosx/panther/


=============================================
`Re: Activating `-i' from inside a script?`__
=============================================
__ http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-June/036579.html

Related threads:
   - `Delayed `-i'! :-)`__

__ http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-June/036636.html

Thanks to Skip Montanaro and someone curious at comp.lang.python_ you 
can now set the PYTHONINSPECT environment variable to something and then 
be started into an interactive interpreter if an exception propagates 
all the way to the end of a program without being caught.


========
Quickies
========
Weekly Python Bug/Patch Summary
-------------------------------
     - `2003-06-01`__
     - `2003-06-08`__
     - `2003-06-15`__
     - `2003-06-22`__
     - `2003-06-29`__

__ http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-June/035926.html
__ http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-June/036021.html
__ http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-June/036364.html
__ http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-June/036525.html
__ http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-June/036610.html


`BaseHTTPServer parsing`__
---------------------------
__ http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-June/035948.html

Code marked as internal to a module in the stdlib means you should not 
directly reference it in your code lest you are willing to deal with 
possible future breakage when a refactoring of that module is done.


`popen2.py strangeness`__
-------------------------
__ http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-June/035955.html

A race condition in popen2 was found and fixed in 2.3 but was not solved 
in time for 2.2.3 .  It has been marked for backporting for 2.2.4 .


`timsort?`__
------------
__ http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-June/035958.html

The new sorting algorithm for lists (known affectionately as "timsort" 
since Tim Peters wrote that tricky piece of code) is a 2.3 feature.  But 
if you would like it for older versions of Python you can get it from 
http://py-stablesort.sourceforge.net/ .


`Mundane dict __setitem__...`__
-------------------------------
__ http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-June/035970.html

The hash value for an object in a dictionary is not guaranteed to be 
done based on identity; having two names set to equal tuples and used as 
keys will overwrite each other.


`Meaning of trailing comma?`__
------------------------------
__ http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-June/035990.html

Improper for python-dev, but Michael Chermside was nice enough to answer 
the question nonetheless.


`test_strptime failed`__
------------------------
__ http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-June/035995.html

A failing test was reported.  Follow-up on the thread is still pending.


`IDLEfork Re-integration into Python`__
---------------------------------------
__ http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-June/035994.html

The new version of IDLE (being developed by the `IDLEfork`_ team) is 
going to be kept in Lib/idlelib/ .


`On Syntax Extensibility (again)`__
-----------------------------------
__ http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-June/036002.html

Samuele Pedroni's thoughts on blocks (like thunks) in Python.  This goes 
way back to the `2003-02-01 summary`_ and the `thunks 
<http://www.python.org/dev/summary/2003-02-01_2003-02-15.html#thunks>`__ 
summary.

.. _2003-02-01 summary: 
http://www.python.org/dev/summary/2003-02-01_2003-02-15.html


`The Python interpreter is not fully thread-safe.`__
----------------------------------------------------
__ http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-June/036004.html

It is going to be added to the documentation for threading in the Python 
core that it does not support free threading.  For those of you who 
aren't familiar with what free threading is (it apparently comes from 
the Windows programming world), it means that something can be called at 
any time from any thread.  In other words it is thread-safe without 
requiring any special API.


`urllib2 proxy support broken?`__
---------------------------------
__ http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-June/036005.html

This was initially covered in the `last summary`_.
The broken proxy support in urllib2 has been fixed.


`Re: [Python-checkins] python/dist/src/Lib  pprint.py`__...
-----------------------------------------------------------
__ http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-June/036008.html

A patch applied to pprint to try to notice if a type's __repr__ had 
changed was backed out.


`mimetypes.guess_all_extensions()`__
------------------------------------
__ http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-June/036076.html

Now returns the empty list when there are no matching extensions.


`[OT] Thank you, python-dev`__
------------------------------
__ http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-June/036083.html

An email from me to python-dev thanking the list for everything they 
have done since it helped get me into grad school.


`Re: [DB-SIG] API suggestion: expose 'quote' method`__
------------------------------------------------------
__ http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-June/036108.html

Email about adding an optional quote function to the Python `DB-API`_ spec.

.. _DB-API: http://www.python.org/topics/database/


`Updated 2.3 Release Schedule`__
--------------------------------
__ http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-June/036163.html

Don't expect 2.3 final to be released until some time after OSCON (it 
ends on July 11).


`cPickle coredump with 2.3/cvs`__
---------------------------------
__ http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-June/036187.html

Someone was having core dump on them thanks to cPickle, but with no one 
else able to reproduce the problem so it's up to the OP to help solve 
this one.


`Patch to remove eval from csv sniffer`__
-----------------------------------------
__ http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-June/036203.html

A patch for the new csv package was questioned since 2.3 is in beta. 
Guido gave the clear, though, since the chances of people's code being 
dependent on the package were negligible.


`Proposal to drop f_tstate`__
-----------------------------
__ http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-June/036204.html

A misunderstanding on the use of the f_tstate value in frames in C code.


`Caching of builtins and globals in action`__
---------------------------------------------
__ http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-June/036228.html

Samuele Pedroni playing with caching accesses to globals and built-ins.


`Two useful patches involving tracebacks`__
-------------------------------------------
__ http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-June/036230.html

After discussing a useful patch, the idea of refactoring the cgitb and 
traceback module for 2.4 came up and seemed to be agreed upon to be a 
good idea.


`PEP-311 operational?`__
------------------------
__ http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-June/036282.html

Someone asking if PEP 311 has been applied.


`Can we switch different "byte code interpreters"?`__
-----------------------------------------------------
__ http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-June/036105.html

Answer: no.
Lesson learned: when you want to start a new thread do not piggyback on 
an existing one unless it is somehow related.


`Sporadic test failures in Lib/test/test_mimetools.py`__
--------------------------------------------------------
__ http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-June/036299.html

When writing tests that base results on the time difference between time 
measurements you *must* make sure that the difference is big enough to 
be noticed by a platforms time.time function (Windows only measures 18.2 
times a second).


`porting problems`__
--------------------
__ http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-June/036308.html

Someone has gotten Python to run on an XBox and GameCube.  =)


`Python language standard; LSB`__
---------------------------------
__ http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-June/036325.html

Python has no "standard"; CPython is as close as you are going to get.


`VC 7.1 compiler for key developers - last call!`__
---------------------------------------------------
__ http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-June/036339.html

Guido asked for key developers who wanted a free copy of VC 7.1 to speak up.


`PEP280 and my experiment`__
----------------------------
__ http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-June/036356.html

Taking cues from PEP 280, Samuele Pedroni experimented with caching 
access to builtins and globals and got about a 15% increase.


`On the possibility of "optimizing" range() calls in for-loops`__
-----------------------------------------------------------------
__ http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-June/036358.html

The idea of optimizing the bytecode for calls to range in 'for' loops is 
still being thrown around.  Alex Martelli, though, pointed out that if 
you just need to do something a set number of times nothing beats 
itertools.repeat .

`Changes to IDLE`__
-------------------
__ http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-June/036366.html

All new bugs and patches in regards to IDLE should go into the Python 
tracker.


`zipfile.py (SF #755031)`__
---------------------------
__ http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-June/036372.html

A bug with zipfile was found and subsequently patched.


`New PEP: 319`__
----------------
__ http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-June/036387.html

A new PEP on adding a keyword for synchronizing code has been put online.


`Py2.3 Todo List`__
-------------------
__ http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-June/036453.html

Related threads:
   - `More work on SRE`__

__ http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-June/036520.html

Essentially a discussion as to whether to apply Gustavo Niemeyer's patch 
to remove the recursion limit from the re module and to add 
sys.(get|set)defaultsourceencoding functions.  The former is in (with 
help of a coverage tool that comes with gcc and is talked about at 
https://moin.conectiva.com.br/GustavoNiemeyer/2003-06-19 ) and the 
latter had new tests added but won't have the code removing recursion 
limits applied  until after 2.3.

.. _EuroPython: http://www.europython.org/


`Handler.setLevel()`__
----------------------
__ http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-June/036466.html

Misunderstanding over how the method worked.


`No Net at home`__
------------------
__ http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-June/036485.html

I lost Internet, as you probably know from the `Summary Announcements`_ 
section, on June 18 and didn't get it back until June 29.


`SF CVS hosed?`__
-----------------
__ http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-June/036489.html

Usual issues with cvs.  Some talk about Subversion_.

.. _Subversion: http://subversion.tigris.org/


`curses module has_key emulation`__
-----------------------------------
__ http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-June/036501.html

Problem with curses was found and a proposed patch at 
http://www.python.org/sf/759208 has been created.


`A vote against dict(keyword=value) sugar`__...
-----------------------------------------------
__ http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-June/036502.html

What the subject says.


`Python on dual-processor Macs?`__
----------------------------------
__ http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-June/036530.html

Greg Ewing was worried about a bug he heard about on dual-processor 
Macs.  Jack Jansen said it was solved, though.


`Patch  595601`__
-----------------
__ http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-June/036537.html

A race condition with files and closing/reading is being worked on at 
http://www.python.org/sf/595601 .


`cookie support for FancyURLopener?`__
--------------------------------------
__ http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-June/036553.html

Someone asking if a certain feature was under development.


`proposed Tkinter change; any likelihood of acceptance?`__
----------------------------------------------------------
__ http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-June/036555.html

Not for 2.3.0, but maybe for 2.4 or 2.3.1 .


`Python hash function`__
------------------------
__ http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-June/036556.html

Damien Morton continues to try to speed up Python, this time by trying 
to speed up the hashing of strings.


`Py2.1`__
---------
__ http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-June/036564.html

Backporting a fix all the way to Python 2.1 is only needed if it is 
really critical.


`deprecate dbm module & add bsddb185 module for 2.2`__
------------------------------------------------------
__ http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-June/036569.html

"No" and probably "if you put the effort into it yourself".


`OSCON Lightning Talk Proposals still being accepted`__
-------------------------------------------------------
__ http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-June/036574.html

If you want to give a lightning talk at OSCON_, read this email.

.. _OSCON: http://conferences.oreilly.com/oscon/


`Yet more SRE`__
----------------
__ http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-June/036575.html

Gustavo Niemeyer fiddles with the re module some more.


`Python 2.3b1, distutils and PEP 263`__
---------------------------------------
__ http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-June/036577.html

Bug in Distutils is squashed involving the shebang line.


`test_copy_reg failing in 2.3 CVS`__
------------------------------------
__ http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-June/036582.html

Dealt with by a comment.


`socket timeouts and httplib`__
-------------------------------
__ http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-June/036587.html

Dealt with by adding a specific exception for timeouts.


`Embedding Python, threading and scalability`__
-----------------------------------------------
__ http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-June/036589.html

David Abrahams redirecting a question to python-dev.


`[ANN] SciPy '03 -- The 2nd Annual Python for Scientific Computing 
Workshop`__
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
__ http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-June/036591.html

Title says it all.


`Proposed DNS query library`__
------------------------------
__ http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-June/036604.html

Take a look at dnspython_ if you need DNS stuff.

.. _dnspython: http://www.dnspython.org


`Problems in stdlib before 2.3b2`__
-----------------------------------
__ http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-June/036606.html

They are being/have been dealt with.


`Running tests on freebsd5`__
-----------------------------
__ http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-June/036611.html

...had two failures.  They are being worked on.


`threads duplicated on fork() prevent child from terminating properly`__
------------------------------------------------------------------------
__ http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-June/036619.html

Person was told to file a bug report.


`Meaty debugging mystery`__
---------------------------
__ http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-June/036627.html

... which Martin v. L?wis figured out the basic cause although how it is 
happening is still unknown.


`2.3b2 known bugs?`__
---------------------
__ http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-June/036632.html

The bugs listed previously at http://www.python.org/2.3/bugs.html have 
been fixed but two new ones take their place.


`Problem with 2.3b2 tarfile?`__
-------------------------------
__ http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-June/036637.html

Solaris tar was choking on a *really* long pathname in the stdlib.  The 
pathname will most likely end up being changed to be under 100 
characters so as to meet the POSIX tarfile format specification.





From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Fri Jul 11 10:23:58 2003
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 11 Jul 2003 10:23:58 -0400
Subject: Embedding Python, threading and scalability
References: <mailman.1057884556.438.python-list@python.org> <3F0E9125.10185EB9@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <bemh9u$b6n$1@panix3.panix.com>

In article <3F0E9125.10185EB9 at hotmail.com>,
Alan Kennedy  <alanmk at hotmail.com> wrote:
>Simon Wittber (Maptek) wrote:
>>
>> To write scalable applications in Python, one must write the
>> 'scalabilty-required' parts n C.
>
>Or Pyrex? Or Boost? 
>
>Do either of these products release the GIL when control is
>transferred to the C/C++ extensions?

Not automatically, that's for certain; dunno if either provides any
features to make the job easier.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"Not everything in life has a clue in front of it...."  --JMS



From bokr at oz.net  Wed Jul 16 11:05:26 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 16 Jul 2003 15:05:26 GMT
Subject: Mix lambda and list comprehension?
References: <6f5b3f88.0307142302.1a1531f3@posting.google.com> <2259b0e2.0307150441.22921165@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bf3pjm$gsl$0@216.39.172.122>

On 15 Jul 2003 05:41:02 -0700, mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato) wrote:

>peter.barth at t-online.de (Peter Barth) wrote in message news:<6f5b3f88.0307142302.1a1531f3 at posting.google.com>...
>> Hi,
>> trying to mix lambda expresions and list comprehension 
>> doesn't seem to work.
>> ---
>> >>> [lambda x:x+y for y in range(10)][9](2)
>>  11
>> >>> [lambda x:x+y for y in range(10)][4](2)
>> 11
>> ---
>> I expected the second expression to return 6.
>> What did I do wrong? Any hints?
>> Thanks
>> - Peter
>
>It is a scope issue. The last value for y is used for all
>the created lambdas. All lambdas users are bitten by that,
>soon or later. The solution is to make y local to the
>lambda function, with the optional argument trick:
>
>>>> [lambda x,y=y:x+y for y in range(10)][4](2)
>6

or you could capture y as constants in the lambdas ;-)

 >>> [eval('lambda x:x+%s'%y) for y in range(10)][4](2)
 6


Regards,
Bengt Richter



From imbosol at aerojockey.com  Mon Jul 28 14:05:35 2003
From: imbosol at aerojockey.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 18:05:35 GMT
Subject: floating point range generator
References: <Xns93B0F0F1A58A2cpl19ghumspamgourmet@62.153.159.134> <oA2Oa.30893$C83.2655519@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <7xwue3lbzy.fsf_-_@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <7O%Ua.8994$AO6.2045@nwrdny02.gnilink.net> <bg3mos$9o5$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <PBdVa.8513$cM6.8178@nwrdny01.gnilink.net>

Bengt Richter wrote:
> On Mon, 28 Jul 2003 02:22:59 GMT, Carl Banks <imbosol at aerojockey.com> wrote:
> [...]
>>
>>The most robust way to handle this is to iterpolate, i.e., instead of
>>passing start, stop, and step, pass start, stop, and n_intervals:
>>
>>   def interiter(start, stop, n_intervals):
>>       diff = stop - start
>>       for i in xrange(n_intervals+1):
>>           yield start + (i*diff)/n_intervals
>>
> 
> To guarantee the exact end points, maybe:
> 
>    def interiter(start, stop, n_intervals):
>        fn=float(n_intervals)
>        for i in xrange(n_intervals+1):
>            yield ((n_intervals-i)/fn)*start + (i/fn)*stop 

Good.


> but shouldn't that be xrange(n_intervals) and leave out
> the final point (thus exact but invisible ;-).

Well, I thought about that.

In the interests of practicality beats purity, when you're
interpolating (instead of stepping as in range) you should include the
final endpoint.  In my experience, when when you divide a segment into
intervals, you almost always want to include both endpoints.

If you use the Python convention of not including the final point in
the iteration, and someone decides they do want the final endpoint,
then it's kind of a pain to calculate what point you should use to get
the final "endpoint", and you lose accuracy on top of it.

So, my suggestion when iterating over an interval is this: If you pass
in a stepsize, then don't include the final point.  If you pass in a
number of intervals, then do include the final point.  I think the
practicality of it justifies the different conventions.


-- 
CARL BANKS



From bogus at antispam.com  Tue Jul 15 19:03:33 2003
From: bogus at antispam.com (Alex)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 19:03:33 -0400
Subject: Curses module.
Message-ID: <iJ%Qa.1892$ym.488598@news20.bellglobal.com>

Hello all,

I'm trying to learn Python, in particular the curses module. My system 
is running Slackware 9.0 and the verion of Python that comes installed 
with Slackware 9.0 is Python 2.2.2.

I've been trying to access the curses.wrapper module without any 
success. I know that the wrapper exists in /usr/lib/python2.2/curses yet 
any reference that I make to it is rebuffed by the interpreter.

Here's the python script I'm trying to run:

[code]

#!/usr/bin/python
#
# My first attempts at writing a curses interface using python

import curses

def newWindow():
	begin_x = 20 ; begin_y = 7
	height = 5 ; width = 40
	win = curses.newwin(height, width, begin_y, begin_x)
	return

# Pass the function to the curses wrapper

curses.wrapper(newWindow())

[/code]

This is the error message that I get when I try to run the script from 
the CLI:

Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "./curses3.py", line 15, in ?
     curses.wrapper(newWindow())
AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'wrapper'

Any ideas as to what I could be doing wrong?


Alex the Python Newbie




From alan.gauld at btinternet.com  Sun Jul 13 18:01:38 2003
From: alan.gauld at btinternet.com (Alan Gauld)
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 22:01:38 GMT
Subject: Multiple Class Inheritance Question
References: <jpiQa.4284$Y%3.2387@nwrddc03.gnilink.net>
Message-ID: <3f11d5b0.530577480@news.blueyonder.co.uk>

On Sun, 13 Jul 2003 19:28:15 GMT, YoTuco <not.valid at address.org>
wrote:

> Does (can) an inheritance scheme like this have any adverse effects
> (pitt-falls) for the App class inheriting class 'A' twice? 
> 

> class App(B,C):
>     def __init__(self):
>         B.__init__(self)
>         C.__init__(self)

The way you wrote it no since neither B nor C called A's init
method! But assuming they did then there are obvious potential
problems in calling any method twice. For instance if it modifies
an external global value it will be modified twice... If it
modifies a class value similarly it will be modified twice. But
because those are "obvious" issues the designer can work around
them...

In the case of calling methods implemented by A and inherited by
B or C there is no such problem since the message search
algorithm stops when it finds an implementation so it will only
ever call the method once. Provided you make sure the order 
of B,C in the inheritance list is right fo you then it should be
OK. (Recall that App(B,C) is not the same as App(C,B) )

HTH,

Alan G.
Alan g.
http://www.freenetpages.co.uk/hp/alan.gauld/



From BPettersen at NAREX.com  Thu Jul 24 16:41:02 2003
From: BPettersen at NAREX.com (Bjorn Pettersen)
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 14:41:02 -0600
Subject: easy way to remove nonprintable chars from string
Message-ID: <60FB8BB7F0EFC7409B75EEEC13E2019202CE471A@admin56.narex.com>

> From: Isaac Raway [mailto:isaac at blueapples.org] 
> >Don Hiatt wrote:
> 
> >Greetings,
> >
> >Is there an easy way to remove multiple non-printable
> >(e.g. "not strings.printable") from a string? Perhaps
> >something like foo.replace(list_of_nonprintables, '')
> >if it only existed? :-)
>
> This seems to work. Not sure how fast it'd be, though.
> 
> def stripNoPrint(str):
>     results = ""
>     for char in str:
>         if string.printable.find(char):
>             results += char
>     return results

try it on the string '0 plus 1 equals 1' :-)

-- bjorn




From bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au  Wed Jul  2 19:38:09 2003
From: bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 23:38:09 GMT
Subject: what is self?
References: <6071d159.0307020846.7653afaa@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <slrnbg6r75.kso.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>

On 2 Jul 2003 09:46:32 -0700, paul h wrote:
> however, i have no idea what self is?

You haven't read through the tutorial then.

Please do so now, it will fill in many missing pieces of knowledge you
currently have about Python:

    <http://python.org/doc/current/tut/>

-- 
 \        "Either he's dead or my watch has stopped."  -- Groucho Marx |
  `\                                                                   |
_o__)                                                                  |
http://bignose.squidly.org/ 9CFE12B0 791A4267 887F520C B7AC2E51 BD41714B



From ambiod at sbcglobal.net  Sat Jul 26 02:35:36 2003
From: ambiod at sbcglobal.net (ryan)
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 23:35:36 -0700
Subject: imgv 2.8.6 released
Message-ID: <000f01c35340$1fd87e40$c915fea9@h5p1n4>

imgv is a cross-platform image viewer written entirely in Python, using
Pygame.

It includes standard features such as a file/directory browser, slideshows,
zooming in and out, flipping, and rotating. It also has special features
such as the ability to view 4 images on the screen at once (and slidedhow
them), adjustable thumbnail sizes, image playlists, the ability to view
images on Web sites, MPEG movie support, a customizable/unique interface,
and much more.

imgv 2.8.6 includes an improved UI, improved URL parsing, keyrepeat for
image panning and some code cleanup.

for more more info visit:
http://imgv.sourceforge.net/





From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sun Jul  6 20:16:02 2003
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 6 Jul 2003 20:16:02 -0400
Subject: anything new on the ternary operator?
References: <mailman.1057533670.9800.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <beae42$d01$1@panix2.panix.com>

In article <mailman.1057533670.9800.python-list at python.org>,
Bob Gailer  <bgailer at alum.rpi.edu> wrote:
>At 10:59 PM 7/6/2003 +0200, Tor wrote:
>>
>>What's the current status on the ternary operator that may or may not
>>be added to python.  Haven't heard much about that since the vote was
>>announced for a couple of months ago.  What's the best way to follow
>>that dicussion?  Or are we just waiting for the developers to make
>>their decision?
>
>Last I heard it was killed by Guido, which makes me wonder why we spent
>so much time discussing and voting. If he did not want it I wish he had
>killed it at the start. I thought the vote was to determine the best
>choice, and I was looking forward to having it.

Guido made clear before the vote that only a clear statement from the
community would drive the addition of the ternary operator.  Given that
the vote did not present a clear result, he did what he said he'd do.
How's that a prbolem?
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"Not everything in life has a clue in front of it...."  --JMS



From mertz at gnosis.cx  Tue Jul  1 14:26:51 2003
From: mertz at gnosis.cx (Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters)
Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 14:26:51 -0400
Subject: Good code patterns in Python
References: <cb035744.0307010149.399df2eb@posting.google.com>
 <2259b0e2.0307010528.29b95fea@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <rJdA/kKkXM3f092yn@gnosis.cx>         

|hwlgw at hotmail.com (Will Stuyvesant) wrote:
|>     if some_condition:
|>         some_name = some_value
|>     else:
|>         some_name = other_value
|> is often a mistake.  Much better, safer, would be:
|>     some_name = some_value
|>     if not some_condition:
|>         some_name = other_value

mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato) wrote previously:
|I am sorry, but I feel that the first form is MUCH more readable than the
|second one; the first form is crystal clear to me, whereas I must read
|the second form two or three times to understand what it is going on.

Moreover, actual code often assigns from computations, not simply one
name to another.  The harder-to-read form risks bad side effects (or
simply a performance hit):

    some_name = some_computation()
    if not some_condition:
        some_name = other_computation()

The straightforward if/else form avoids superfluous computations.

Yours, Lulu...

--
 mertz@   _/_/_/_/_/_/_/ THIS MESSAGE WAS BROUGHT TO YOU BY:_/_/_/_/ v i
gnosis  _/_/                    Postmodern Enterprises         _/_/  s r
.cx    _/_/  MAKERS OF CHAOS....                              _/_/   i u
      _/_/_/_/_/ LOOK FOR IT IN A NEIGHBORHOOD NEAR YOU_/_/_/_/_/    g s





From tjreedy at udel.edu  Sat Jul  5 21:31:07 2003
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2003 21:31:07 -0400
Subject: problems with sf cvs server?
References: <slrnbgeu10.o3b.wolfson@senator.cs.uchicago.edu>
Message-ID: <DHydnfbXLa1B5pqiXTWJkA@comcast.com>

"Ben Wolfson" <wolfson at uchicago.edu> wrote in message
news:slrnbgeu10.o3b.wolfson at senator.cs.uchicago.edu...
> Is anyone else experiencing trouble checking the python source tree
> out of the sf cvs server?  I hang forever here:
>
> cvs server: Updating python/nondist/src/Compiler/tests/output

Yes, there is current discussion on PyDev about what to do.





From bignose-hates-spam at and-benfinney-does-too.id.au  Thu Jul 31 07:31:24 2003
From: bignose-hates-spam at and-benfinney-does-too.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: 31 Jul 2003 21:21:24 +0950
Subject: RELEASED Python 2.3 (final)
References: <mailman.1059523523.23534.python-list@python.org> <3f27bacd$0$49113$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl> <c76ff6fc.0307301323.62f3ccd6@posting.google.com> <bg9hgu$k31$1@panix2.panix.com> <38ec68a6.0307301828.7310e01b@posting.google.com> <Ol%Va.2860$cI2.2543@nwrdny01.gnilink.net> <3F28EA71.6A863E7@hotmail.com> <gryZ9MBVjPK$EwDP@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <slrnbii0lr.t6.bignose-hates-spam@rose.localdomain.fake>

On Thu, 31 Jul 2003 12:09:09 +0100, Robin Becker wrote:
> 1) SyntaxWarning: assignment to None
>    eg for None, name in colorNamePairs:
>    what is the preferred way to do this nowadays? It's fairly
>    trivial to go through and change these to for notUsed, x in ....
>    but is there a nicer way.

Seems nice enough.  You'll only be able to assign to a mutable object
anyway; None is not mutable, and will soon be a keyword.  Define (or
just go ahead and use) your own not_used name.

> 2) FutureWarning: hex/oct constants > sys.maxint will return positive  
>    values in Python 2.4 and up
>    eg self.assertEquals(ttf.read_ulong(), 0x81020304) # big-endian
>    Is there no way to preserve the clarity of the above in future?

Declare large positive constants as being longs:

    >>> foo = 0xFFFFFFFF
    <stdin>:1: FutureWarning: hex/oct constants > sys.maxint will return positive values in Python 2.4 and up
    >>> foo
    -1

    >>> foo = 0xFFFFFFFFL
    >>> foo
    4294967295L

You probably want the numbers to behave as positive anyway.

>    The same applies to
> 
>    FutureWarning: x<<y losing bits or changing sign will return a long 
>    in Python 2.4 and up
>    eg sum = (hi << 16) | (lo & 0xFFFF)

Same answer applies too:

    >>> hi = 0xDEAD
    >>> lo = 0xBEEF
    >>> sum = ( hi << 16 ) | ( lo & 0xFFFF )
    __main__:1: FutureWarning: x<<y losing bits or changing sign will return a long in Python 2.4 and up>>> sum
    -559038737

    >>> hi = 0xDEADL
    >>> lo = 0xBEEFL
    >>> sum = ( hi << 16 ) | ( lo & 0xFFFF )
    >>> sum
    3735928559L

If you want to deal consistently (across Python versions) with numbers
larger than sys.maxint, whether decimal, hex or octal, ensure you set
them up as longs to begin with.

> Is Python moving away from the machinery?

I don't see why not; fiddling with low-level bits is pretty
architecture-dependent, as these hacks show.  If you want C, you know
where to find it.

> Are there efficient recipes for doing these 32 bit operations?

Hopefully you'll agree the solutions I've presented are just as
"efficient", even if they expose the bit-fiddling hackery somewhat more.

> Certainly cut and paste to and from java/c/c++ will be a lot harder.

I've never known that to be a priority for Python.

-- 
 \     "I went to a restaurant that serves 'breakfast at any time'. So |
  `\        I ordered French Toast during the Renaissance."  -- Steven |
_o__)                                                           Wright |
Ben Finney <http://bignose.squidly.org/>



From candiazoo at mac.com  Wed Jul 16 00:46:12 2003
From: candiazoo at mac.com (Michael S. Jessop)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 04:46:12 GMT
Subject: Problem with MySQLdb on Mac OS X...
References: <110720032317344670%candiazoo@mac.com> <mailman.1058024298.17294.python-list@python.org> <120720032321075007%candiazoo@mac.com> <3344b1fa.0307140325.67be7b8c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <160720030045562219%candiazoo@mac.com>

Oh CRIPES!  I have 3 different sets of header files for MySQL!!!  Now
the problem becomes:  which do I select?  /usr/includes/mysql is out...

I have  a set under /Library/MySQL/include and a set under ... oh
wait... those are in an application package - so nevermind.  I guess I
just answered my own question!  Thanks Peter...

Mike

In article <3344b1fa.0307140325.67be7b8c at posting.google.com>, Peter
Wilkinson <pw-google at terlkin.org> wrote:

> "Michael S. Jessop" <candiazoo at mac.com> wrote in message
> news:<120720032321075007%candiazoo at mac.com>...
> > [[ This message was both posted and mailed: see
> >    the "To," "Cc," and "Newsgroups" headers for details. ]]
> > 
> > I tried supplying host as well, same error.    :/   Something is hosed. 
> > I guess I could try reinstalling.  I really want to get this to work. 
> > I am trying to write a maintenance program for my wife, so she can
> > remotely modify the database containing information about her artwork,
> > distribution lists, etc.
> > 
> 
> I've just sorted out the problem on my machine and it appeared to be a
> set of include files from a previous install of MySQL that were
> sitting in /usr/include, once I removed that and rebuilt with setup.py
> pointing to the Fink include paths it works fine.
> 
> Peter.



From gordons_lists at gmx.net  Fri Jul 11 19:05:27 2003
From: gordons_lists at gmx.net (Gordon Wetzstein)
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 01:05:27 +0200 (MEST)
Subject: socket problem
Message-ID: <24472.1057964727@www25.gmx.net>

Hello everyone,

I have a problem with python sockets.
I broadcast a lot of pickled objects with socket. sendto(...), that works.
Ireceive them on the other site with socket.recvfrom(16384)
The pickled objects are smaller (like 10000 bytes) than the max bytes.

The problem appears if I send too many pickled objects very quickly one
after another, 
then I only receive a part of the sent objects.
I print them before I send them, they are there but they never reach the
destination.
When I do a time.sleep(0.1) (but not lesser than 0.1) after socket.send()
all is good but it's too slow!

Does anyone know what the problem is? And maybe a solution!

thanks gordon

-- 
+++ GMX - Mail, Messaging & more  http://www.gmx.net +++

Jetzt ein- oder umsteigen und USB-Speicheruhr als Pr?mie sichern!





From buki at bukis.org  Mon Jul 14 15:23:13 2003
From: buki at bukis.org (Andreas Bauer)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 21:23:13 +0200
Subject: some questions
References: <3f12f613$0$8731$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de> <beuvfj$o25$1@slb4.atl.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <3f13031b$0$4026$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>

> Where have you already looked?   Have you tried "Python tutorial" on
> google?
> Have you tried Python.org?   Python itself comes with a tutorial (maybe
> you are unaware of this, or maybe you want another?).

I know there is one. But I don't like it. Don't know what kind of tutorial 
I'm looking for. Just some hints would be enough. 

>> Can't hardly find any.
> 
> Was ist das?  Can't or can?  Or do you really mean "Can't hardly find
> nothin'?"   ;-)

Meant Can.



From yaipa at yahoo.com  Tue Jul 15 16:14:24 2003
From: yaipa at yahoo.com (yaipa h.)
Date: 15 Jul 2003 13:14:24 -0700
Subject: Sio serial module install problem with ActiveState
References: <pan.2003.07.14.21.40.42.609932@zexcite.zcom> <3F132FB3.CF0E6B44@engcorp.com> <pan.2003.07.15.02.56.25.188912@zexcite.zcom> <3F13703C.C12392D6@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <6e07b825.0307151214.3d2cce2@posting.google.com>

All,

Worked like a charm for me too! I used it to develop an
automated attendant for a Serial Oven Controller. The 
attendant ran from Sparc Solaris using Python 2.1 and pySerial.

The only weird thing, which I didn't get a chance to 
debug, was a perfectly working script under RS-232
got terribly out of sync when R/W I/O to a RS-485
serial network.  Any reason why that would be?

Thanks, just a bit of trivia if the boss wants me
to revisit it again.

  --Alan

Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message news:<3F13703C.C12392D6 at engcorp.com>...
> Conrad wrote:
> > 
> > I'll give them a shot tomorrow. USPP made me a little
> > nervous, because frankly, it looks like it died a year
> > and a half ago, with outstanding Linux bugs 
> 
> Thanks for checking that out better than I did.  I was
> worried about that myself, having seen nothing about it
> for a very long time, but the name had stuck in my head.
> 
> > pyserial seemed from it's docs
> > to require jython - which means pulling in a whole slew
> > of third-party DLLs for Java. 
> 
> No!  Try PySerial first, for sure.  It does NOT require
> Jython, but does support it.  As the home page says,
> "It provides backends for stadard (sic) Python running 
> on Windows, Linux, BSD (possibly any POSIX compilant system) 
> and Jython.  The module named "serial" automaticaly (sic) 
> selects the appropriate backed (sic)."
> 
> (Chris, if you'd like, I'll happily proofread that page
> and correct a few spelling errors for you. ;-)
> 
> -Peter



From bertvansesamstraat at hotmail.com  Fri Jul 18 06:33:03 2003
From: bertvansesamstraat at hotmail.com (Maurice)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 10:33:03 +0000
Subject: how to compile python program to linux executable
Message-ID: <bf8akp$g95$1@news.tudelft.nl>

Gerhard H?ring wrote:
 > Ruslan Spivak wrote:
 >
 >> Hello.
 >>
 >> Is it possible to convert python program to linux executable program?
 >> [...]
 >
 >
 > You can make an executable that contains both your Python script and
 > modules and the interpreter runtime. It's called 'freezing'. The utility
 > for this is in the Python source distribution. There's also Gordon
 > McMillan's Installer that makes the process easier. He offers Linux and
 > Windows versions.
 >
 > Why would you want to do that? There's almost certainly a better
 > solution for your problem, *if* there is any problem in the first place.
 >
 > -- Gerhard
 >

Hello,

I can have the same 'problem'.
I am currently developping a tool that uses other modules.
This tool I want to distribute to other people in my group which also 
use Linux but that don't have installed the modules.
Is it then possible to pach all libraries and modules and so on into one 
exec. and give this to someone else.
Or can I only do this when they have exactly the same Linux version.
Or is it only possible when they have installed the other progames 
containing the modules.
The modules I'm thinking of is for example wxPyhton and/or VTK.

Maurice




From adechert at earthlink.net  Sun Jul 20 21:37:51 2003
From: adechert at earthlink.net (Alan Dechert)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 01:37:51 GMT
Subject: Possible use of Python for a voting machine demo project -- your feedback requested
References: <P9DSa.111436$Io.9552373@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <bff6jb$e8goe$1@ID-67890.news.uni-berlin.de> <7xk7acai97.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <PtHSa.14085$Mc.1037736@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>

"Paul Rubin" <http://phr.cx at NOSPAM.invalid> wrote in message
news:7xk7acai97.fsf at ruckus.brouhaha.com...
> "Ulrich Petri" <ulope at gmx.de> writes:
> > "Alan Dechert" <adechert at earthlink.net> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
> > news:P9DSa.111436$Io.9552373 at newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
> >
> > Sorry but why on earth you dont just print that on paper and let people
make
> > their crosses where they want?
>
> In the past there has been a lot of trouble with manual ballot
> systems, because people can't understand the instructions, the ballots
> get printed incorrectly, stuff like that.  You might remember the big
> mess in the 2000 US presidential election, that revolved around such
> problems.  Choosing the US President turned out to mostly be a battle
> between lawyers over which ballots to count rather than about what the
> voters wanted, and a lot of the legal decisions were made according to
> the political leanings of the particular judges.  The ballots
> themselves didn't get a thorough tabulation until long after the
> January inauguration and people disagree about how to intepret the
> results even to this day.
>
> US elections are also different than elections in most other countries
> because a lot of different issues get voted in them.  Rather than just
> choosing one of a bunch of different parties like in a parliamentary
> system, we vote separately for (potentially) the President, Senator,
> Congressional representative, Governor of the state, Lieutenant
> governor, Attorney General, Mayor of the town, members of the local
> school board, ballot initatives on whether to collect an extra tax on
> soda bottles, on whether to build a new highway somewhere, and so on
> and so on.  Dozens of different things, all in one election.  Counting
> ballots by hand would require reading off from each ballot all the
> separate votes on each of these issues.  It's not like in France or
> Canada (I have no idea about Germany) where there's basically just one
> question to vote on.
>
You make a lot of good points.  As I understand it, Canada administers
national, province, and local elections separately.  They happen at
different times and are conducted by different entities.  The U.S. is one of
very few where you see federal, state, and local contests on the same
ballot.

Alan Dechert





From sross at connectmail.carleton.ca  Thu Jul 10 16:31:13 2003
From: sross at connectmail.carleton.ca (Sean Ross)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 16:31:13 -0400
Subject: sort() doesn't work on dist.keys() ?
References: <6cd58b6.0307101214.34e99f2a@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <J0kPa.8964$ru2.893687@news20.bellglobal.com>

"Steve Pinard" <spinard at ra.rockwell.com> wrote in message
news:6cd58b6.0307101214.34e99f2a at posting.google.com...
> I would expect when
> I aply sort() to that list, I would get an in-place sorted
> version of that list.  Why do I get None?

Apparently, you get None to remind you that you've done an inplace sort,

see
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw.py?req=show&file=faq06.020.htp





From noah at noah.org  Sun Jul 13 09:27:02 2003
From: noah at noah.org (Noah)
Date: 13 Jul 2003 06:27:02 -0700
Subject: Reading packets from a tun device.
References: <mailman.1058041398.21541.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c9d82136.0307121836.15d42e4c@posting.google.com>

Andre <andre at netvision.com.br> wrote in message news:<mailman.1058041398.21541.python-list at python.org>...
> I'm trying to read packets from a tun device in Python, the code I used 
> for this is the following:
> f = file( '/dev/tun0', 'r+' )
> pkt = f.read( 1500 )
> 
> The problem is that the f.read() call doesn't return. When I used a small 
> value in the f.read() call instead of the 1500, like 1 or 5, it did 
> return the first bytes of the packet.
> I then went to the manuals and found that file() uses stdio's fopen, so I 
> changed my code to make file() not do any buffering, like this:
> 
> f = file( '/dev/tun0', 'r+', 0 )
> pkt = f.read( 1500 )
> But the behavior of the program is the same as the one above.
> What I'm looking for is a way to open a file in Python without using 
> stdio, or a way to read from a tun device using it.

I'm not sure if this problem is due to buffering on your client side, but 
you can open plain file descriptors in Python. The buffering could also
be on the server side of the tun device. What is connected to the other
side of the tun? Is that code that you wrote too? If so then send a copy
of that and I can understand better what is going on.

The 'os' package supports raw file descriptor file IO which is below stdio.

import os
fd_tun = os.open ('/dev/tun0', os.O_RDWR)
data = os.read (fd_tun, 1500)
os.close (fd_tun)

Let me know how this goes.

Yours,
Noah



From skip at pobox.com  Wed Jul 23 09:59:24 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 08:59:24 -0500
Subject: needs a logo
In-Reply-To: <7fe97cc4.0307230144.9119f89@posting.google.com>
References: <7fe97cc4.0307230144.9119f89@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <16158.38076.265722.759965@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    Xah> it would be good if Bash and Python have a decent logo.
    Xah> the current logos of simplistic font 
    Xah>  http://cnswww.cns.cwru.edu/~chet/img/bash-org.jpg
    Xah>  http://python.org/pics/pythonHi.gif
    Xah> are homely.

Have you browsed 

    http://www.python.org/pics/

?  There are a lot of PyBanner*.gif images there.  Maybe you could use one
of them as the starting point for a new logo.

Skip




From intentionally at blank.co.uk  Mon Jul 14 22:06:14 2003
From: intentionally at blank.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 03:06:14 +0100
Subject: anything like C++ references?
References: <b8c3hvsesjoumiboobml3nsnajtha99mp1@4ax.com> <mailman.1058129901.28248.python-list@python.org> <plk3hv0s1m2egf4s34jo6vjedk0q8r2mu9@4ax.com> <hflQa.48826$wk6.12216@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net> <rp94hvc8fg6h91oe7ctqq9jn9ku3nlud1k@4ax.com> <Z3sQa.50347$wk6.13077@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net>
Message-ID: <7tm6hvcqtqaigelrnfb9sd1qatnfvbk21g@4ax.com>

On Mon, 14 Jul 2003 06:28:09 GMT, "Bryan" <belred1 at yahoo.com> wrote:

>
>"Stephen Horne" <intentionally at blank.co.uk> wrote in message
>news:rp94hvc8fg6h91oe7ctqq9jn9ku3nlud1k at 4ax.com...
>> On Sun, 13 Jul 2003 22:42:21 GMT, "Bryan" <belred1 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >> 3.  Why is there no way to reference an immutable object via a
>> >> pointer, other than stuffing it into a mutable object designed for
>> >> some purpose other than simple pointer behaviour?
>> >>
>> >
>> >>>> a = (1, 2, 3)
>> >>>> b = a
>> >>>> id(a)
>> >15471760
>> >>>> id(b)
>> >15471760
>> >>>> print b[1]
>> >2
>> >>>>
>> >
>> >
>> >i just referenced an immutable object via a "pointer" and i __did_not__
>> >stuff it into a mutable object as you say.
>> >a and b "point" to the same object.
>>
>> Technically, but what is the point? You can't do pointer-style things
>> with it. You can't change the object in any way without changing the
>> id, and you can't use the mechanism to, for instance, allow 'var'
>> parameters.
>>
>
>can you show what functionality is missing by not being able to do
>"pointer-style things"?  here are two variables:
>
>a = (1, 2, 3)
>b = [1, 2, 3]
>
>one immutable, one mutable.  please show an example of what "pointer-style
>things" you would like to do.

In my view, mutability should be a property of *objects* - not the
same as values, in the pedantic language that has become necessary in
this thread. The existence of mutability shouldn't break the principle
of variables being bound to values.

This is my point. Pointer types are a side issue - something that
becomes necessary (or rather more obviously important) if the
principle of variables being bound to values is respected. This
doesn't mean that Python can't use binding of variables to objects as
an implementation, but that implementation shouldn't be visible
(except for performance, and for operations that explicitly deal with
objects rather than values) in the results.

Starting from your example, I'd want to see results like this...

>>> a = [1, 2, 3]
>>> b = a
>>> c = (1, 2, 3)
>>> d = c
>>> b[2] = 4
>>> a
[1, 2, 3]
>>> b
[1, 2, 4]
>>> d[2] = 4
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 8, in ?
TypeError: object doesn't support item assignment


Having done this, mutable objects could not be abused to give
pointer-style functionality (a fact of life at the moment) so the need
for real explicit pointers should become obvious.

>i've read this entire thread so far, and from a practical point of view
>(because that's all i really care about and what pays the bills), i really
>don't understand what the problem is.  personally, i don't care about the
>strict definitions of computer science terms and what "variable" or
>"pointer" means.  i do care about how fast problems can be solved, how much
>resources must be involved in solving that problem, and how much money can
>be made/saved.  for me, python is a winner in all this area.  not having
>pointers like c/c++ is such a blessing.  i can't believe anyone would even
>suggest that pointers and/or doing things with pointers be brought into
>python.  ok... one more time... let's bring this conversation down to
>something practical.   please show an example of pointer-style functionality
>in any language that is missing/awkward/complicated in python.  i'm not an
>expert in python, i'm just very curious to understand what the true
>practical issue is.

There is none that is currently missing because mutable objects can be
abused to create the required effect. If Python respected the concept
of variables being bound to values, though, that wouldn't be true.

You wouldn't be able to write...

>>> def f(x) :
...   x[0] += 1
...
>>> a = [1]
>>> f(a)

Or rather you could, but you'd get...

>>> a
[1]

...and not...

>>> a
[2]

So instead of abusing lists, you'd have to use an explicit pointer
type...

>>> def f(x) :
...   *x += 1
...
>>> a = 1
>>> f(&a)
>>> a
2

Note - in many cases, you could return multiple values and avoid the
need for pointers. That wouldn't be the case, however, for objects
which don't support copying.

It *might* be possible to pass such an object directly into a function
(depending on how the variable-to-value binding is implemented) but
modifying the parameter would require that it binds to a new object -
a copy of the original object - to prevent the mutation of the callers
variables. Passing the parameter and returning it *might* be
acceptable, but modifying it within the function would require copying
of the object.

As there are a number of important object types that don't (and
shouldn't) support copying, this wouldn't be a trivial concern.




From akineko at pacbell.net  Tue Jul  8 22:24:49 2003
From: akineko at pacbell.net (Aki Niimura)
Date: 8 Jul 2003 19:24:49 -0700
Subject: Python and freeze (something odd)
Message-ID: <b714b8de.0307081824.6e48638d@posting.google.com>

Hello Everyone,

I feel sorry to bother you guys as I posted another yesterday, too.

Finally my script which accesses a web site from a Python script is functioning
fully. It works very nicely (upload / download / does operations).

Now I'm trying to "freeze" my script to a single executable file under Solaris
using freeze. I have done such many times and it worked magically (until now).

However, maybe I'm out of luck.

When I started the generated executable, I got the following:
 Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "websc.py", line 284, in ?
  File "websc.py", line 276, in main
  File "websc.py", line 125, in upload_files
  File "websc_upload.py", line 173, in httprequest
  File "/usr/local/lib/python2.2/email/Message.py", line 113, in as_string
    g.flatten(self, unixfrom=unixfrom)
  File "/usr/local/lib/python2.2/email/Generator.py", line 103, in flatten
    self._write(msg)
  File "/usr/local/lib/python2.2/email/Generator.py", line 131, in _write
    self._dispatch(msg)
  File "/usr/local/lib/python2.2/email/Generator.py", line 157, in _dispatch
    meth(msg)
  File "/usr/local/lib/python2.2/email/Generator.py", line 231, in _handle_multipart
    g.flatten(part, unixfrom=False)
  File "/usr/local/lib/python2.2/email/Generator.py", line 103, in flatten
    self._write(msg)
  File "/usr/local/lib/python2.2/email/Generator.py", line 138, in _write
    self._write_headers(msg)
  File "/usr/local/lib/python2.2/email/Generator.py", line 172, in _write_headers
    elif _is8bitstring(v):
  File "/usr/local/lib/python2.2/email/Generator.py", line 44, in _is8bitstring
    unicode(s, 'us-ascii')
LookupError: unknown encoding: us-ascii

//

As I mentioned earlier, it works fine if it is invoked from .py files.
Also, I created a simple test program which just does unicode(s, 'us-ascii').
The frozen version of such test program works without a hitch.

Guido mentioned in a document for 'freeze' saying:
"... It may still be confused -- it will not
know about calls to the __import__ built-in function, ..."

I guess my program confused 'freeze' as unicode is a built-in function.
However, he didn't offer any further information.

Any thoughts, any suggestions?

Thanks in advance.

Best regards,
Aki Niimura



From dave at boost-consulting.com  Tue Jul  8 11:39:31 2003
From: dave at boost-consulting.com (David Abrahams)
Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 11:39:31 -0400
Subject: does lack of type declarations make Python unsafe?
References: <idqrev4h6i3gohg9lp02nci8upj7a818fc@4ax.com> <3EEE3036.1080105@removeme.free.fr>
 <bresev47pva1a27odt1nlouppj27vh2pe0@4ax.com>
 <yQzHa.188017$g92.3811402@news2.tin.it>
 <qgiuev87lhuagv5fs1g5671id61p0mej7k@4ax.com>
 <a5WHa.197736$g92.4021282@news2.tin.it>
 <ur85r1mz1.fsf@boost-consulting.com>
 <c9%Ha.200753$g92.4077297@news2.tin.it>
 <uy8zy4vzs.fsf@boost-consulting.com>
 <pNfIa.206219$g92.4232233@news2.tin.it>
 <ea97dfd9.0306290730.137c6837@posting.google.com>
 <bdnite$lsg$1@news.hccnet.nl>
Message-ID: <uznjprpsc.fsf@boost-consulting.com>

anton at vredegoor.doge.nl (Anton Vredegoor) writes:

> Confronting the Martellibot is like flirting with an encyclopedia, I'd
> rather not do it myself, but I respect those who do, because it
> produces knowledge.

Yeah, and fun!  I'm a little disappointed that Alex disappeared from
this discussion because I thought it was going somewhere interesting
and was looking forward to some more cogent arguments.  Any chance of
re-opening it, Alex?  I'm referring, in particular, to
http://tinyurl.com/gbq0


-- 
Dave Abrahams
Boost Consulting
www.boost-consulting.com



From anthony at interlink.com.au  Sun Jul  6 00:33:37 2003
From: anthony at interlink.com.au (Anthony Baxter)
Date: Sun, 06 Jul 2003 14:33:37 +1000
Subject: Frustration with spurious posts. 
In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20030705095656.01a4e060@66.28.54.253> 
Message-ID: <200307060433.h664XbxC025004@localhost.localdomain>

>>> Bob Gailer wrote
> Does anyone know why we keep getting these posted to the list. Is there a 
> way to stop it?

Viruses that forge email from addresses, and are forging 
'from: python-list at python.org'. I believe Greg's trying to
get spambayes trained up on these messages to try and block
them.

Other than that, mandating that people stop using crappy
insecure *cough* Microsoft *cough* mail clients would also
stop it :)


-- 
Anthony Baxter     <anthony at interlink.com.au>   
It's never too late to have a happy childhood.





From bogus at antispam.com  Mon Jul 21 23:22:51 2003
From: bogus at antispam.com (Alex)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 23:22:51 -0400
Subject: Stopping a loop with user input in curses
References: <pan.2003.07.19.21.26.34.776055@antispam.com> <20030720135329.18124.00000260@mb-m15.aol.com> <pan.2003.07.21.04.36.20.827100@antispam.com> <mailman.1058799577.22400.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2003.07.22.03.22.51.518337@antispam.com>

Thank you so much! That worked fantastically!

I'll have to read up on the select module. It seems like I'll be
using it a lot for the application I'm writing.

Once again, thank you.


Alex



From martin at v.loewis.de  Fri Jul 25 01:18:15 2003
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-15?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 25 Jul 2003 07:18:15 +0200
Subject: Why instancemethod when I can add functions to classes outside class body?
References: <6f03c4a5.0307242027.85f195a@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <m3oezj6v6w.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

rimbalaya at yahoo.com (Rim) writes:

> So what problem is the new.instancemethod() trying to solve?

It has no side effects on the class it is an instancemethod of.

Regards,
Martin



From grante at visi.com  Thu Jul 24 12:02:02 2003
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 24 Jul 2003 16:02:02 GMT
Subject: How to do raw Ethernet under Win32?
References: <3f1ed31a$0$181$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <GHOTa.3$dA6.755814@news.salzburg-online.at>
Message-ID: <3f2002fa$0$164$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>

In article <GHOTa.3$dA6.755814 at news.salzburg-online.at>, Leopold Faschalek wrote:

>>  1) Send an arbitrary Ethernet packet.  [Well, not completely
>>     arbitrary, the source MAC will be "right", but the protocol
>>     number is a proprietary (not IP) one, and the packet isn't
>>     anything standard.
>>
>>  2) Receive any incoming packets with a specified protocl
>>     number -- same proto number as in 1) above.

> the new winsock2.h supports more socket types:
> /*
>  * Types
>  */
> #define SOCK_STREAM     1               /* stream socket */
> #define SOCK_DGRAM      2               /* datagram socket */
> #define SOCK_RAW        3               /* raw-protocol interface */
> #define SOCK_RDM        4               /* reliably-delivered message */
> #define SOCK_SEQPACKET  5               /* sequenced packet stream */
> 
> so you have only to define 3 as type in the socket() call

AFAICT, winsock's SOCK_RAW isn't what I need.  

It lets you imipliment protocols on top of IP -- at least
that's what the documentation implies, and that's what's being
done by all the example code I can find.

I don't want to build on top of IP.  I want to build an
arbitrary protocol on top of Ethernet, specifying the Ethernet
protocol number which I want to send/receive.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  By MEER biz doo
                                  at               SCHOIN...
                               visi.com            



From BPettersen at NAREX.com  Thu Jul 24 15:21:55 2003
From: BPettersen at NAREX.com (Bjorn Pettersen)
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 13:21:55 -0600
Subject: Tokenize
Message-ID: <60FB8BB7F0EFC7409B75EEEC13E2019202CE4712@admin56.narex.com>

> From: Ken Fettig [mailto:kfettig at state.nd.us] 
> 
> Does Python have an equivelent to the Java StringTokenizer? 
> If so, what is it and how do you implement it?

I have no idea what the Java StringTokenizer class does (this being a
Python group and all -- references always welcome <wink>), but perhaps
the split() method on strings gets close to what you want
(http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/string-methods.html)?

-- bjorn




From tjreedy at udel.edu  Thu Jul 24 16:47:07 2003
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 16:47:07 -0400
Subject: easy way to remove nonprintable chars from string
References: <2b012c5e.0307241138.177e5c8c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <tNicnYbMLo1Q2L2iXTWJhw@comcast.com>

"Don Hiatt" <donhiatt at acm.org> wrote in message
news:2b012c5e.0307241138.177e5c8c at posting.google.com...
> Is there an easy way to remove multiple non-printable
> (e.g. "not strings.printable") from a string? Perhaps
> something like foo.replace(list_of_nonprintables, '')
> if it only existed? :-)


>>> help(str.translate)
translate(...)
    S.translate(table [,deletechars]) -> string

    Return a copy of the string S, where all characters occurring
    in the optional argument deletechars are removed, and the
    remaining characters have been mapped through the given
    translation table, which must be a string of length 256.

>>> s_identity=''.join([chr(i) for i in range(256)]) # the 'table' you
need

Terry J. Reedy






From bgailer at alum.rpi.edu  Sun Jul  6 19:52:39 2003
From: bgailer at alum.rpi.edu (Bob Gailer)
Date: Sun, 06 Jul 2003 17:52:39 -0600
Subject: Using Loops to track user input
In-Reply-To: <bea4gh$2pvt6$1@ID-130333.news.dfncis.de>
References: <bea0p6$17f$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20030706175121.025ac950@66.28.54.253>

At 02:33 PM 7/6/2003 -0700, Cousin Stanley wrote:

>| Write a program that reads 10 numbers from the user
>| and prints out the sum of those numbers.

Not to neglect the 1-liner:

import operator; reduce(operator.add,[int(raw_input("Number>")) for i in 
range(10)])

Bob Gailer
bgailer at alum.rpi.edu
303 442 2625
-------------- next part --------------

---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.492 / Virus Database: 291 - Release Date: 6/24/2003

From justinjohnson at fastmail.fm  Wed Jul  9 14:19:24 2003
From: justinjohnson at fastmail.fm (Justin Johnson)
Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 12:19:24 -0600
Subject: process.py problems
In-Reply-To: <20030709170030.51BDE37470@www.fastmail.fm>
References: <20030708153117.127C0326C0@www.fastmail.fm> <20030708094057.C9520@ActiveState.com> <20030708210829.B3BBE3886D@www.fastmail.fm> <20030708170131.C13603@ActiveState.com> <20030709123005.C0B58374AF@www.fastmail.fm> <20030709123628.66ACA3771B@www.fastmail.fm> <20030709170030.51BDE37470@www.fastmail.fm>
Message-ID: <20030709181924.7445236056@www.fastmail.fm>

My testing doesn't always seem consistent, but currently I can only
reproduce this when my script runs as a windows service using
win32service.  When I run it on the commandline it works fine.  I'm
guessing this has something to do with the logging mechanism I'm using.

So the only problem I'm positive about is that dir and other shell
commands work on win2k but not on winnt.

Sorry for all the emails and the confusion.
-Justin

On Wed, 09 Jul 2003 11:00:30 -0600, "Justin Johnson"
<justinjohnson at fastmail.fm> said:
> I guess this really is a problem.  I found that it sometimes hangs on
> p.stdout.read().
> 
> >>> p = process.ProcessOpen("cleartool lsvob -s")
> >>> p.stdout.read()
> '\\import_test\n\\pvob\n\\vob\n\\adminvob\n\\adminvob2\n'
> >>> p = process.ProcessOpen("cleartool lsview -l")
> >>> p.stdout.read()
> *** just hangs here ***
> 
> 
> On Wed, 09 Jul 2003 06:36:28 -0600, "Justin Johnson"
> <justinjohnson at fastmail.fm> said:
> > Never mind the part about commands hanging....  that appears to be
> > related to something else in my code.  I think your process stuff is
> > working fine for .exe commands.  :-)
> > 
> > So just the dir command is failing now.
> > 
> > On Wed, 09 Jul 2003 06:30:05 -0600, "Justin Johnson"
> > <justinjohnson at fastmail.fm> said:
> > > After replacing my process.py I still get an error with the dir command
> > > (see below).
> > > 
> > > I'm getting some wierd results with normal .exe commands though. 
> > > Commands that don't have much output come back just fine, but commands
> > > that have more output, even if they don't take long to run necessarily,
> > > seem to get stuck and just hang, never returning.
> > > 
> > > E:\ccase\python\uhg\uht>python
> > > ActivePython 2.2.2 Build 224 (ActiveState Corp.) based on
> > > Python 2.2.2 (#37, Nov 26 2002, 10:24:37) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
> > > Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> > > >>> import process
> > > >>> p = process.ProcessOpen("dir")
> > > process: info:ProcessOpen.__init__(cmd='dir', mode='t', cwd=None,
> > > env=None)
> > > process.res: info:[11054544] ProcessOpen._start(): create child stdin:
> > > <_FileWra
> > > pper: file:None fd:3 os_handle:<PyHANDLE object at 0x00A8ACA4>>
> > > process.res: info:[11054544] ProcessOpen._start(): create child stdout:
> > > <_FileWr
> > > apper: file:None fd:4 os_handle:<PyHANDLE object at 0x00A8D6B4>>
> > > process.res: info:[11054544] ProcessOpen._start(): create child stderr:
> > > <_FileWr
> > > apper: file:None fd:5 os_handle:<PyHANDLE object at 0x00A8D694>>
> > > process: debug:_whichFirstArg: first='dir', rest=''
> > > Traceback (most recent call last):
> > >   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
> > >   File "process.py", line 1118, in __init__
> > >     self._startOnWindows()
> > >   File "process.py", line 1289, in _startOnWindows
> > >     cmd = _fixupCommand(cmd, self._env)
> > >   File "process.py", line 516, in _fixupCommand
> > >     cmd = _whichFirstArg(cmd, env)
> > >   File "process.py", line 325, in _whichFirstArg
> > >     candidate = which.which(first)
> > >   File "which.py", line 251, in which
> > >     raise WhichError("Could not find '%s' on the path." % command)
> > > which.WhichError: Could not find 'dir' on the path.
> > > >>>
> > > 
> > > >>> p = process.ProcessOpen("cleartool lsvob -l")
> > > process: info:ProcessOpen.__init__(cmd='cleartool lsvob -l', mode='t',
> > > cwd=None,
> > >  env=None)
> > > process.res: info:[18469440] ProcessOpen._start(): create child stdin:
> > > <_FileWra
> > > pper: file:None fd:3 os_handle:<PyHANDLE object at 0x01198B44>>
> > > process.res: info:[18469440] ProcessOpen._start(): create child stdout:
> > > <_FileWr
> > > apper: file:None fd:4 os_handle:<PyHANDLE object at 0x0119CA74>>
> > > process.res: info:[18469440] ProcessOpen._start(): create child stderr:
> > > <_FileWr
> > > apper: file:None fd:5 os_handle:<PyHANDLE object at 0x0119A9E4>>
> > > process: debug:_whichFirstArg: first='cleartool', rest='lsvob -l'
> > > process: debug:_SaferCreateProcess(appName=None,
> > >                     cmd='"C:\\Program
> > >                     Files\\Rational\\ClearCase\\bin\\cleartool
> > > .EXE" lsvob -l',
> > >                     env=None,
> > >                     cwd=None)
> > >     os.getcwd(): 'E:\\ccase\\python\\uhg\\uht'
> > > 
> > > process: info:_registerprocess(process=<process.ProcessOpen instance at
> > > 0x0119D2
> > > 40>)
> > > ***** It doesn't return here *****
> > > 
> > > 
> > > On Tue, 8 Jul 2003 17:01:32 -0700, "Trent Mick" <trentm at ActiveState.com>
> > > said:
> > > > 
> > > > Yup, process.py is expected a which.py <1.0. Crappy. I need to put up a
> > > > new process.py. To work around in it in your current build you need to
> > > > changes process.py's usages of which.which() to expect a single hit
> > > > instead of a list of a all hits. In other words, which.which() changed
> > > > from:
> > > >     >>> which.which("python")
> > > >     ["C:\\Python22\\python.exe", "C:\\Python21\\python.exe", ...]
> > > > to:
> > > >     >>> which.which("python")
> > > >     "C:\\Python22\\python.exe"
> > > > 
> > > > This is a little bit of a pain to do though. I have attached an untested
> > > > process.py that should have this fixed. I apologize for the informalness
> > > > of this. I'll try to get a new process.py version up on
> > > > <starship.python.net/~tmick> when I get a chance.
> > > > 
> > > > Cheers,
> > > > Trent
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > [Justin Johnson wrote]
> > > > > Thanks for the reply!
> > > > > 
> > > > > which 1.0.2
> > > > > 
> > > > > Here's the log output with the dir command
> > > > > -----------------------
> > > > > process.res: info:[18392288] ProcessOpen._start(): create child stdin:
> > > > > <_FileWra
> > > > > pper: file:None fd:3 os_handle:<PyHANDLE object at 0x0118C694>>
> > > > > process.res: info:[18392288] ProcessOpen._start(): create child stdout:
> > > > > <_FileWr
> > > > > apper: file:None fd:4 os_handle:<PyHANDLE object at 0x0118C674>>
> > > > > process.res: info:[18392288] ProcessOpen._start(): create child stderr:
> > > > > <_FileWr
> > > > > apper: file:None fd:5 os_handle:<PyHANDLE object at 0x0118C654>>
> > > > > process.res: info:[18392288] ProcessOpen.__del__()
> > > > > process: info:[18392288] ProcessOpen.close()
> > > > > process: info:[18392288] ProcessOpen: closing stdin (<_FileWrapper:
> > > > > file:None fd
> > > > > :3 os_handle:<PyHANDLE object at 0x0118C694>>).
> > > > > process: debug:[18400496] _FileWrapper.close()
> > > > > process: debug:[18400496] _FileWrapper.close: close handle
> > > > > process: debug:[18400496] _FileWrapper.close: closing handle raised
> > > > > process: debug:[18400496] _FileWrapper.close: done closing handle
> > > > > process: info:[18392288] ProcessOpen: closing stdout (<_FileWrapper:
> > > > > file:None f
> > > > > d:4 os_handle:<PyHANDLE object at 0x0118C674>>).
> > > > > process: debug:[18400720] _FileWrapper.close()
> > > > > process: debug:[18400720] _FileWrapper.close: close handle
> > > > > process: debug:[18400720] _FileWrapper.close: closing handle raised
> > > > > process: debug:[18400720] _FileWrapper.close: done closing handle
> > > > > process: info:[18392288] ProcessOpen: closing stderr (<_FileWrapper:
> > > > > file:None f
> > > > > d:5 os_handle:<PyHANDLE object at 0x0118C654>>).
> > > > > process: debug:[18403024] _FileWrapper.close()
> > > > > process: debug:[18403024] _FileWrapper.close: close handle
> > > > > process: debug:[18403024] _FileWrapper.close: closing handle raised
> > > > > process: debug:[18403024] _FileWrapper.close: done closing handle
> > > > > process: debug:[18400720] _FileWrapper.close()
> > > > > process: debug:[18400496] _FileWrapper.close()
> > > > > process: debug:[18403024] _FileWrapper.close()
> > > > > ----------------
> > > > > 
> > > > > I also get the following results running commands that are in my path...
> > > > > ------------------
> > > > > g`"apper: file:None fd:5 os_handle:<PyHANDLE object at 0x011D30A4>>
> > > > > process: debug:_SaferCreateProcess(appName=None,
> > > > >                     cmd='C lsview -s',
> > > > >                     env=None,
> > > > >                     cwd=None)
> > > > >     os.getcwd(): 'E:\\ccase\\python\\uhg\\uht'
> > > > > 
> > > > > process.res: info:[18680944] ProcessOpen.__del__()
> > > > > process: info:[18680944] ProcessOpen.close()
> > > > > process: info:[18680944] ProcessOpen: closing stdin (<_FileWrapper:
> > > > > file:None fd
> > > > > :3 os_handle:<PyHANDLE object at 0x011D4744>>).
> > > > > process: debug:[18696880] _FileWrapper.close()
> > > > > process: debug:[18696880] _FileWrapper.close: close handle
> > > > > process: debug:[18696880] _FileWrapper.close: closing handle raised
> > > > > process: debug:[18696880] _FileWrapper.close: done closing handle
> > > > > process: info:[18680944] ProcessOpen: closing stdout (<_FileWrapper:
> > > > > file:None f
> > > > > d:4 os_handle:<PyHANDLE object at 0x011D47C4>>).
> > > > > process: debug:[18696832] _FileWrapper.close()
> > > > > process: debug:[18696832] _FileWrapper.close: close handle
> > > > > process: debug:[18696832] _FileWrapper.close: closing handle raised
> > > > > process: debug:[18696832] _FileWrapper.close: done closing handle
> > > > > process: info:[18680944] ProcessOpen: closing stderr (<_FileWrapper:
> > > > > file:None f
> > > > > d:5 os_handle:<PyHANDLE object at 0x011D30A4>>).
> > > > > process: debug:[18699984] _FileWrapper.close()
> > > > > process: debug:[18699984] _FileWrapper.close: close handle
> > > > > process: debug:[18699984] _FileWrapper.close: closing handle raised
> > > > > process: debug:[18699984] _FileWrapper.close: done closing handle
> > > > > process: debug:[18696832] _FileWrapper.close()
> > > > > process: debug:[18696880] _FileWrapper.close()
> > > > > process: debug:[18699984] _FileWrapper.close()
> > > > > ---------
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > -- 
> > > > Trent Mick
> > > > TrentM at ActiveState.com
> > > 
> > > -- 
> > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> > > 
> > 
> 




From trentm at ActiveState.com  Mon Jul 21 19:04:38 2003
From: trentm at ActiveState.com (Trent Mick)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 16:04:38 -0700
Subject: Automatically filling in answers to interactive shell command questions
In-Reply-To: <d365ef4b.0307211423.27ba6d86@posting.google.com>; from tbonemp3@yahoo.com on Mon, Jul 21, 2003 at 03:23:25PM -0700
References: <d365ef4b.0307211423.27ba6d86@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20030721160438.A7318@ActiveState.com>

Check out pexpect, a Python version of the popular Tcl-land Expect
program:
    http://pexpect.sourceforge.net/

I haven't used it but I get the feeling that pexpect is Un*x-only if
that affects you at all.

Trent

[Ted Weatherly wrote]
> Is it possible to use python to automatically fill in the answers to
> interactive shell command questions?  For example, I am using a shell
> command addperson that behaves as follows:
> 
>   > addperson
>   First Name: Ted
>   Birthday: 12/08/1977
>   Height: 6'0"
>   Location: San Francisco, CA
>   > 
> 
> I am prompted for "First Name: " and I enter "Ted".  I am prompted for
> "Birthday: " and I enter "12/08/1977".  Imagine doing this for 100
> people or more...it gets tiresome.
> 
> Assuming I can't change the addperson command to read data from a
> file, is there any way to use python to fill in the data for the
> expected questions?  Perhaps a different language would be better?
> 
> -Ted
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

-- 
Trent Mick
TrentM at ActiveState.com




From zneptune321 at zexcite.zcom  Tue Jul 15 13:34:00 2003
From: zneptune321 at zexcite.zcom (Conrad)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 17:34:00 GMT
Subject: Sio serial module install problem with ActiveState
References: <pan.2003.07.14.21.40.42.609932@zexcite.zcom>
Message-ID: <pan.2003.07.15.17.36.01.181119@zexcite.zcom>

OK, I'm posting on top, spank me. Many thanks to Peter
and Gary for their help, and to Chris for writing
pyserial, which is working just fine for what I'm
doing - it took two lines to change my code, because
I was already using file-type .write() methods to
pump the data out - so I added an import, and changed
my open statement, and it just worked. (once I killed
the evil VB program that apparently opens the serial
port and just hangs on to it forever!)

Thanks again,

Conrad


Years ago, Nostradamus predicted that on Mon, 14 Jul 2003 22:38:57 +0000,
Conrad would write, saying:

> Greetings,
> 
> I have a need to print from Win98SE to a little 
> serial label printer provided by United Parcel, so 
> based on Mark Hammond's recommendation in 
> 'Programming on Win32' I decided to try the Sio 
> module at http://starship.python.net/crew/roger/
> 
> My problem:
> 
> The Sio installer dies looking for:
> HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Python\PythonCore\2.2\InstallPath
> 
> I am using ActiveStates Python 2.2.2 build 224 on Win98SE.
> 
> ActiveState apparently does do registry setup, for example,
> the HKEY_USERS\.DEFAULT\SOFTWARE tree contains the
> \Python\PythonCore\2.2\InstallPath keys. I re-installed
> Python, thinking I had blown the registry, but the keys
> that Sio wants are never set.
> 
> FWIW, PyPGSQL, wxPython, and the egenix MxBase packages all 
> find Python on machines with ActiveState and install OK. 
> I don't know what they are checking on install.
> 
> Can anyone suggest a fix/workaround for someone who is just 
> a bit befuddled by registries, or did I perhaps grab the 
> wrong Sio? ( I got SioModule22.EXE at 171184 bytes from:
> http://starship.python.net/crew/roger/ )
> 
> BTW, this serial printer is apparently pretty much a 'dump
> and go' type device - the only thing the printer seems to
> be capable of returning is a 4-byte error code after a special
> error report command is sent to the printer - other than that,
> all of the data and commands seem to move downstream only,
> with no return from the printer expected. Is Sio overkill for
> this, i.e. is there some incredibly simple "open a serial port
> under Win32 for write only" command I'm missing in the basic
> Python stuff?
> 
> Many thanks,
> 
> Conrad




From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Thu Jul  3 12:43:19 2003
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 11:43:19 -0500
Subject: getting a submatrix of all true
In-Reply-To: <giqdnXMMi6WpV56iXTWJgQ@comcast.com> ("Terry Reedy"'s message
 of "Thu, 3 Jul 2003 02:16:19 -0400")
References: <mailman.1057173484.29754.python-list@python.org>
	<giqdnXMMi6WpV56iXTWJgQ@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <m2r857sgrc.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

>>>>> "Terry" == Terry Reedy <tjreedy at udel.edu> writes:


    Terry> Statisticians have tried a variety of approaches.  Googling
    Terry> for ' statistics "missing data" 'will give you some leads
    Terry> if you want.

I have done some searching.  I'm familiar with the common methods
(delete every row that contains any missing, replace missing via mean
or regression or something clever) but haven't seen any discussion of
dropping variables and observations together to yield data sets with
no missing values.  Have you seen something like this?

John Hunter




From anton at vredegoor.doge.nl  Wed Jul 23 16:34:11 2003
From: anton at vredegoor.doge.nl (Anton Vredegoor)
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 22:34:11 +0200
Subject: Confusing automated translators.
References: <37d6f77c.0307130932.1e3adf0d@posting.google.com> <3f11ac74$0$49101$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl> <ad052e5c.0307131718.4903430d@posting.google.com> <3F12808B.E53193B8@hotmail.com> <bf49ch$6n7$1@news.hccnet.nl> <3f15b04b$0$49114$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl> <cesqhvsupo96cdo52hg67iqhcm6huncusd@4ax.com> <3f1db69e$0$49116$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <bfmrlp$f6i$1@news.hccnet.nl>

Irmen de Jong <irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl> wrote:

>>>"Als achter vliegen vliegen vliegen, vliegen vliegen vliegen achterna."
>> 
>> 
>> ...and the meaning is?
>
>
>*spoiler*
>
>
>
>If behind flies flies fly, flies fly after flies.
>
>(I'm not too sure about the correct word order in English,
>but this resembles the Dutch sentence most, IMO).

This is just a translation. The Dutch sentence already has meaning
[1], so claiming that the English translation of the sentence is the
meaning of the Dutch sentence seems a bit paraconsistent. If one were
to look for a sentence in English which has the same meaning as the
original Dutch sentence, I would rather use an analogous sentence:

"If there's a cat on the mat, there's a mat under the cat"

However this loses the ambiguity of "following something flying".

Anton

[1] The meaning may be unclear to the non-native speaker



From carsten at gehling.dk  Wed Jul 16 10:37:28 2003
From: carsten at gehling.dk (Carsten Gehling)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 16:37:28 +0200
Subject: SV: pso - ImportError: No module named url
In-Reply-To: <BHEFKIOIMEDGILGDACKDCEIGDMAA.carsten@sarum.dk>
Message-ID: <BHEFKIOIMEDGILGDACKDCEIHDMAA.carsten@gehling.dk>

Figured out myself - I just removed the line with "from url import Url" - it
doesn't seem to be used anywhere ;-)

- Carsten


> -----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
> Fra: python-list-admin at python.org
> [mailto:python-list-admin at python.org]P? vegne af Carsten Gehling
> Sendt: 16. juli 2003 16:24
> Til: python-list
> Emne: pso - ImportError: No module named url
>
>
> I've tried to install pso on my webserver and made the first test example.
>
> When trying to run it (eg. from the prompt), I get the following error:
>
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "test.py", line 3, in ?
>     from pso.service import ServiceHandler
>   File "/usr/local/lib/python2.2/pso/service.py", line 31, in ?
>     from request import ServiceRequest, SERVER_RETURN
>   File "/usr/local/lib/python2.2/pso/request.py", line 36, in ?
>     from url import Url
> ImportError: No module named url
>
> I've checked my Python installation - there is no module named "url".
>
> I thought it might be a misspelling of "urllib", but "urllib" is
> explicitly
> imported a few lines above in request.py
>
> System info:
> OS: Redhat Linux 7.3
> Python: 2.2.2
> pso: 0.98.C-beta
>
> - Carsten
>
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>





From bgailer at alum.rpi.edu  Wed Jul 30 13:23:22 2003
From: bgailer at alum.rpi.edu (Bob Gailer)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 11:23:22 -0600
Subject: Ver 2.3 install over 2.2?
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20030730112144.02c30b88@66.28.54.253>

Is it OK to install 2.3 in my python22 folder, thus preserving all the libs 
and packages already installed, or do I have to reinstall all of them, or what?

Bob Gailer
bgailer at alum.rpi.edu
303 442 2625
-------------- next part --------------

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Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.500 / Virus Database: 298 - Release Date: 7/10/2003

From vze4rx4y at verizon.net  Sun Jul 20 11:03:50 2003
From: vze4rx4y at verizon.net (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 15:03:50 GMT
Subject: How do I get info on an exception ?
References: <fc07672ed11f5dcad539bcf9bf0d051f@news.1usenet.com> <U2NRa.7475$7O.275@nwrdny01.gnilink.net> <vhh3kss6ailjf9@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <qbySa.19290$7O.15283@nwrdny01.gnilink.net>

> >You could catch it with:
> >
> >            except socket.herror, inst:
> >                  print inst.args
> >
> >or more broadly with:
> >
> >             except socket.error, (errno, string_message):
> >                   print code, message
> >
> >
> >> More importantly, where is the answer documented that I should
> >> have looked?
> >
> >The list of possible socket exceptions is in the docs for sockets.
> >It also describes the (errno, string) return tuple value of inst.args.
> .
> .
> .
> True.
>
> But unsatisfying--at least to me.

Submit a patch.


Raymond Hettinger





From bgailer at alum.rpi.edu  Wed Jul 23 21:15:23 2003
From: bgailer at alum.rpi.edu (Bob Gailer)
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 19:15:23 -0600
Subject: Cookbook idea - single-shot __init__ 
In-Reply-To: <3F1E49D4.A539CABF@alcyone.com>
References: <764b8294.0307221520.18017b09@posting.google.com>
 <mailman.1058930376.7219.python-list@python.org>
 <mXdYCLAc0jH$EwJR@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20030723190843.02b64210@66.28.54.253>

I have at times had the need to initialize some things once at the class 
level, and have resorted to techniques like:

class foo:
   first = True
   def __init__(self):
     if foo.first:
       foo.first = False
       # initialization code

Then a "better idea" occurred:

class foo:
   def __init__(self):
       del foo.__init__
       # initialization code

Bob Gailer
bgailer at alum.rpi.edu
303 442 2625
-------------- next part --------------

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Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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From eniac at sdf-eu.org  Wed Jul  9 15:01:24 2003
From: eniac at sdf-eu.org (Geiregat Jonas)
Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 21:01:24 +0200
Subject: check if dir exists
Message-ID: <pan.2003.07.09.19.01.24.826622@sdf-eu.org>

How can I check if a dir exists ?



From no at spam.invalid  Tue Jul  1 17:43:25 2003
From: no at spam.invalid (Russell E. Owen)
Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 14:43:25 -0700
Subject: Newbie: Tkinter and macPython
References: <f9b7c11d.0306281825.5cf24367@posting.google.com> <bdq5nv$2bdo$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu> <f9b7c11d.0307011048.377579a4@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bdsv9v$21ne$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>

In article <f9b7c11d.0307011048.377579a4 at posting.google.com>,
 gtewalt at earthlink.net (gt) wrote:

>Wow.
>I never expected anything this thourough for a response.
>Thanks Russell.
>I have actually installed MacPython 2.3b1.
>I tried the package manager, but at the time it wouldnt connect to
>the 'database' (if I remember correctly)
>At any rate, it looks like I need aqua Tk.
>It would seem that I should un-install 2.3b1, install
>aqua Tk, then reinstall 2.3b1 and implement the package manager.
>Thanks again.

Sorry to hear that. The package manager in 2.3b1 had some bugs that are 
probably fixed in 2.3b2, but it's so new that I don't think there's a 
binary installer for MacOS X yet.

I doubt you need to uninstall your Python.

Installing Tk in advance is important if you buld Python from source 
(because the make script automatically builds Tkinter for you if it can 
find Tcl/Tk). I don't think it matters when installing from binary.

Unfortunately, I do not know how to add Tkinter to the binary installed 
version of Python 2.3 (given that you are having trouble with the 
package manager). I'm sure somebody does know. Try posting to the 
MacPython mailing list.

Two other options are:
- Build Python from source (e.g. see link below). A bit slow but it 
certainly does work.
- Use Bob Ippolito's binary installer for Python 2.2.2, which includes 
lots of extras.

I've put what I know about building Python for MacOS X at 
<http://www.astro.washington.edu/owen/PythonOnMacOSX.html>. Probably not 
much there I didn't already post, but at least now it's in one place and 
can be updated. I'm hoping Python 2.3 final will be so easy to install 
that extra information is redundant.

-- Russell



From spam at spam.com  Mon Jul 28 06:51:01 2003
From: spam at spam.com (Ton K.)
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 12:51:01 +0200
Subject: MIDI interface on Windows in Python, need advice
Message-ID: <newscache$ykdqih$cc5$1@cache3.nc3a.nato.int>

Folks,

I'm planning to build MIDI sysex tools in Python on Windows 98SE.
I need a simple read/write to MIDI interface, preferably with a read
callback integrated with the Tkinter event loop.
I don't need timestamps, sequencing etc...

please advise on how to proceed...
thanks
Ton K.




From postmaster at 127.0.0.1  Sat Jul 12 22:12:40 2003
From: postmaster at 127.0.0.1 (David McNab)
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 14:12:40 +1200
Subject: Any pure-python relational databases?
References: <pan.2003.07.12.14.11.19.428895@127.0.0.1> <2a897f11.0307121143.4a37113b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2003.07.13.02.12.39.725180@127.0.0.1>

On Sat, 12 Jul 2003 12:43:25 -0700, Wayne Pierce paused, took a deep
breath, then came out with:

>> 2) Any kind of relational DBMS written in pure python that'll run on
>> 1.5.2?
> 
> While not relational, have you looked at Metakit?
> 
> http://www.equi4.com/metakit/python.html

I got Metakit to compile for Python 1.5.2 without undue drama, just a
couple of makefile hacks.

Uploaded the shared lib and the python wrapper to the host, and it runs
just fine.

What a sweet little dbms!

Thank YOU, Wayne!!! :)))





From bokr at oz.net  Fri Jul  4 22:53:31 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 5 Jul 2003 02:53:31 GMT
Subject: pyBoards.com
References: <191e20c8.0307031711.42d4e46b@posting.google.com> <3f054d9a$0$13803$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net> <840592e1.0307040900.14e3e668@posting.google.com> <3F05C39D.3F65B89C@engcorp.com> <be4ijf$oj2$1@panix3.panix.com> <3F05FFFE.DB98BF44@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <be5ejb$cib$0@216.39.172.122>

On Fri, 04 Jul 2003 18:30:22 -0400, Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:

>Aahz wrote:
>> 
>> In article <3F05C39D.3F65B89C at engcorp.com>,
>> Peter Hansen  <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >Google Groups likely takes its feed directly of a Usenet site, and Usenet
>> >in general suffers from large propagation delay.  It is that delay, caused
>> >by messages filtering slowly across the Usenet network, which leads to the
>> >"5 answers" problem, not Google Groups itself.
>> 
>> Actually, Google uses at least two or three feeds (including
>> stanford.edu, which has a super-competent news admin), and Usenet
>> propagation is actually little short of e-mail speeds these days,
>> depending on where you're located.
>
>That might be, but empirically I've seen posts that I've made take 
>hours to get there, and I've seen posts that were made to the mailing
>list (and copied to me directly) take hours to get there.  In both 
>cases, there is an "upwards" propagation delay towards whatever hosts
>Google is milking before stanford.edu or the others will see it...

Well, compare just in this thread how stuff got to me
(I broke paths with '\\' for clarity and removed return addresses):
===============================
Path: news.alt.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!postnews1.google.com!not-for-mail
From: (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Hannu_Kankaanp=E4=E4?=)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.python

Path: news.alt.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!rcn!nntp.abs.net\
!uunet!dca.uu.net!ash.uu.net!news.baymountain.com!not-for-mail
From: Paul McNett
Newsgroups: comp.lang.python

From: Peter Hansen
Newsgroups: comp.lang.python
Path: news.alt.net!priapus.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!hermes.visi.com\
!feed2.news.rcn.net!rcn!elnk-atl-nf1!newsfeed.earthlink.net!prodigy.com\
!rip!c03.atl99!cyclone2.usenetserver.com!newsfeeds-atl1!news.webusenet.com\
!newsfeed.on.tac.net!news.sentex.net!not-for-mail

Path: news.alt.net!priapus.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!petbe.visi.com\
!newspeer.monmouth.com!news-peer-east1.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net\
!newsfeed!panix!panix3.panix.com!not-for-mail
From: (Aahz)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.python

From: Peter Hansen
Newsgroups: comp.lang.python
Path: news.alt.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed-east.nntpserver.com\
!nntpserver.com!chi1.webusenet.com!c03.atl99!cyclone2.usenetserver.com\
!newsfeeds-atl1!news.webusenet.com!newsfeed.on.tac.net!news.sentex.net!not-for-mail
===============================
Note that path from Peter was not the same both times.
Then, looking at one of my own posts in another thread:

Path: news.alt.net!oz.net!usenet
From: (Bengt Richter)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.python

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From max at cNOvSisiPonAtecMh.com  Thu Jul  3 15:11:16 2003
From: max at cNOvSisiPonAtecMh.com (Max Khesin)
Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 19:11:16 GMT
Subject: [ot continued..] Re: A story about Python... sort of
References: <3f03f430$0$97222$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk> <KwWMa.3332$Aw.3042@twister.nyc.rr.com> <3f04727e@news.swissonline.ch>
Message-ID: <od%Ma.2680$GF2.1827670@twister.nyc.rr.com>

> [OT] That's not a pro, that's a con on the C++ side. And actually that's
the
> reason why there's so much bad C++ software. A C programmer first has to
> forget C to be able to program in C++ - well, to be able to program OO in
> C++.

Well, it is documented as one of the original design goals of the language,
if I remember correctly. It is certainly implicitly a goal considering the
sacrifices made to preserve C as a subset.
I think it was important in getting a lot of people on board with c++, but
it certainly there are many problems with it, including the one you
mentioned. Of course the problems would not exist if C++ was never accepted.
It is similar to saying 'how dare my parents embarass me by having sex'.
Take it up with Bjarne :)

max.

> Best regards
> Franz GEIGER







--
========================================
Max Khesin, software developer -
max at cNvOiSsPiAoMntech.com
[check out our image compression software at www.cvisiontech.com, JBIG2-PDF
compression @
www.cvisiontech.com/cvistapdf.html]





From tjreedy at udel.edu  Tue Jul 15 03:48:44 2003
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 03:48:44 -0400
Subject: anything like C++ references?
References: <berqqd$ad5$1@panix3.panix.com> <brs2hv8edfv0d1fch9mha8otuulajnkh0g@4ax.com> <bes0ps$l6$1@panix3.panix.com> <qi13hv4s21i8mtr2e600jumm54hqs7tppu@4ax.com> <mailman.1058125699.26133.python-list@python.org> <sag3hv4vf884ed7ouu5cv8ofnopp9j1t12@4ax.com> <f0f51c80.0307132003.264b6894@posting.google.com> <7dc4hvslh7a8fk9p6cvsfqa1c8d44rmmnv@4ax.com> <f0f51c80.0307140649.61cc1fe2@posting.google.com> <41e6hvcl2q5bdjqlp30t1gfq42j2tgo4u4@4ax.com> <SDJQa.63050$N7.7668@sccrnsc03> <dsq6hv4vi1qhsksv56h8lqd7rlqh58ir05@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <MuCcnfblZ5NALI6iXTWJjA@comcast.com>

"Stephen Horne" <intentionally at blank.co.uk> wrote in message
news:dsq6hv4vi1qhsksv56h8lqd7rlqh58ir05 at 4ax.com...
> In mathematics and computer theory, variables bind to values.

In real life, names (like "Stephen Horne") bind to 'objects'
(including people like you) that are mutable.  Python is intended for
modeling real life as well as mathematics.

I understand that you don't like this.  Fine.  You are not going to
change it.

Terry J. Reedy





From herrn at gmx.net  Sun Jul 13 11:08:53 2003
From: herrn at gmx.net (Marco Herrn)
Date: 13 Jul 2003 15:08:53 GMT
Subject: Library for pop over ssl?
Message-ID: <bersm5$88gse$1@ID-165840.news.uni-berlin.de>

Hi, I know of poplib, which does what I need except that it doesn't
support SSL encryption. imaplib has SSL-support. But I want it with
pop3. Is there a library available that does this or do I have to
implement it myself?

Bye
Marco
-- 
Marco Herrn             herrn at gmx.net
(GnuPG/PGP-signed and crypted mail preferred)
Key ID: 0x94620736




From martin at v.loewis.de  Wed Jul 30 16:24:53 2003
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 22:24:53 +0200
Subject: Upgrading python
In-Reply-To: <bg93pm$72v$0@216.39.172.122>
References: <ItycnZqbMc9St7qiXTWc-w@speakeasy.net> <m33cgohbf9.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <bg93pm$72v$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <bg99ih$t0e$02$1@news.t-online.com>

Bengt Richter wrote:

> How do I know what will happen to file extension associations and the system path search
> that takes unadorned python and finds some/path/to/python23.exe?

You could ask. Extension associations will get redirected to Python 2.3, 
and there is no python23.exe.

> And how does the old python22 find what it needs? 

Using sys.executable.

 > Do I need to go through a .cmd file that sets up its environment
 > before running?

No.

 > How do I know everything it needs?

Again, you might want to ask.

> IOW, how do you set up a clean way to run both 2.2.3 and 2.3 "side by side" but separately,
> with default "python" going to 2.3?  

Install Python 2.2 first, then 2.3.

> I am being lazy in not reading the install docs yet,
> but does it cover the question fully? 

No.

> If so, the answer to this post can just be "yes" ;-)

No.

Regards,
Martin




From exarkun at intarweb.us  Fri Jul 18 08:19:49 2003
From: exarkun at intarweb.us (Jp Calderone)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 08:19:49 -0400
Subject: feature request: a better str.endswith
In-Reply-To: <2259b0e2.0307180401.5dae02f2@posting.google.com>
References: <2259b0e2.0307180401.5dae02f2@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20030718121949.GB11052@intarweb.us>

On Fri, Jul 18, 2003 at 05:01:47AM -0700, Michele Simionato wrote:
> I often feel the need to extend  the string method ".endswith" to tuple
> arguments, in such a way to automatically check for multiple endings.
> For instance, here is a typical use case:
> 
> if filename.endswith(('.jpg','.jpeg','.gif','.png')):
>     print "This is a valid image file"
> 
> Currently this is not valid Python and I must use the ugly
> 
> if filename.endswith('.jpg') or filename.endswith('.jpeg') \
>    or filename.endswith('.gif') or filename.endswith('.png'):
>     print "This is a valid image file"

    extensions = ('.jpg', '.jpeg', '.gif', '.png')
    if filter(filename.endswith, extensions):
        print "This is a valid image file

  Jp

-- 
"Pascal is Pascal is Pascal is dog meat."
                -- M. Devine and P. Larson, Computer Science 340




From mgerrans at mindspring.com  Thu Jul 24 03:16:25 2003
From: mgerrans at mindspring.com (Matt Gerrans)
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 00:16:25 -0700
Subject: Python and VS.Net
References: <mailman.1058934395.4215.python-list@python.org> <bflf99$aqd$1@slb9.atl.mindspring.net> <mailman.1058989177.1549.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bfo14i$ibh$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net>

"Trent Mick" wrote:
> > If your Python code could thereby access the .NET libraries, that would
be
> > another story.   That would be like Jython for .NET.   I was hoping that
was
> > what Active State's Python-in-VS.NET-thingy was, but alas it was too
good to
> > be true: it is only (so far) a color-syntaxing Python editor that takes
two
> > or three minutes to load up.
>
> You are mixing up two difference ideas. ActiveState's VisualPython is a
> plugin for VS.NET to provide all the IDE stuff (like editting,
> debugging, interactive shell, help, intellisense, etc) for Python
> programmers.

Uh, isn't that pretty much what I said?   I don't think I mixed up the
ideas.   I only said that what ActiveState's Visual Python was and what I
was originally hoping it would be were not the same.

> The idea of integrating the Python language somehow into the .NET
> framework is independent of VS.NET-the-IDE, though I suppose one might
> like some level of connection between the two. Mark Hammond, before and
> while at ActiveState did do some exploratory work in this direction. But
> that is all it has come to so far: exploration. So your "too good to be
> true" does (currently) apply to a so called Python.NET. This code is
> currently in PyWin32's CVS tree one SourceForge:
>     http://sf.net/projects/pywin32
> There is also the independent Kobra project that I have not looked at.

Yes, I was aware of these, too.   Despite Microsoft's claims about the .NET
platform being language-independent, it doesn't seem to be a simple task to
get Python going on it.    So far, I think there are only VB.NET, C++, C#
and J#.   No Python#, Perl# or Ruby#, as of yet...





From sybrenUSE at YOURthirdtower.imagination.com  Mon Jul 21 18:05:13 2003
From: sybrenUSE at YOURthirdtower.imagination.com (Sybren Stuvel)
Date: 21 Jul 2003 22:05:13 GMT
Subject: [OT] SCO is Going After End Users
References: <4868482a.0307211336.4ca9493a@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <slrnbhooso.99p.sybrenUSE@sybren.thirdtower.com>

Russ Salsbury enlightened us with:
> ComputerWorld says that SCO is going to charge Linux end users a
> license fee for "the opportunity to run Linux legally."

Utter crap. First they'd better proof their point instead of harassing
inocent people.

> I realize that this is OT, but SCO's action strikes at the heart of
> Open Source.

No they don't. If they can't point out what code is theirs, they
are obviously having a hard time recognising it. If they can't even
recognise it, how can they clame it?

> If IBM, Red Hat, and the  decide that the the cost of settling is less
> than the cost of litigation, we all loose.

No we don't. If they point out which code is theirs, we'll rip it out,
replace it by better code, and they won't have a leg to stand on.

Sybren
-- 
The problem with the world is stupidity. Not saying there should be a
capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the
safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself? 



From trentm at ActiveState.com  Wed Jul 23 15:33:27 2003
From: trentm at ActiveState.com (Trent Mick)
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 12:33:27 -0700
Subject: Python and VS.Net
In-Reply-To: <bflf99$aqd$1@slb9.atl.mindspring.net>; from mgerrans@mindspring.com on Wed, Jul 23, 2003 at 12:59:32AM -0700
References: <mailman.1058934395.4215.python-list@python.org> <bflf99$aqd$1@slb9.atl.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <20030723123327.B356@ActiveState.com>

> If your Python code could thereby access the .NET libraries, that would be
> another story.   That would be like Jython for .NET.   I was hoping that was
> what Active State's Python-in-VS.NET-thingy was, but alas it was too good to
> be true: it is only (so far) a color-syntaxing Python editor that takes two
> or three minutes to load up.

You are mixing up two difference ideas. ActiveState's VisualPython is a
plugin for VS.NET to provide all the IDE stuff (like editting,
debugging, interactive shell, help, intellisense, etc) for Python
programmers.

The idea of integrating the Python language somehow into the .NET
framework is independent of VS.NET-the-IDE, though I suppose one might
like some level of connection between the two. Mark Hammond, before and
while at ActiveState did do some exploratory work in this direction. But
that is all it has come to so far: exploration. So your "too good to be
true" does (currently) apply to a so called Python.NET. This code is
currently in PyWin32's CVS tree one SourceForge:
    http://sf.net/projects/pywin32
There is also the independent Kobra project that I have not looked at.

Trent

-- 
Trent Mick
TrentM at ActiveState.com




From calderano at sgaspa.it  Tue Jul  8 12:01:00 2003
From: calderano at sgaspa.it (Luca Calderano)
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 18:01:00 +0200
Subject: printing html document with internet explorer
Message-ID: <003401c3456a$20be53e0$410100a4@utente65>

Hi people!

Does anyone know how-to automatically print an html doc using Internet
Explorer ???

I've tried these ways:

1) wxHtmlEasyPrinting
2) win32api.ShellExecute

but using both of tese objects

the printer setup pop-up window appears on the screen

and I have to click on the "OK" button to print my doc.


Thanks in advance

      S.G.A S.p.A.
Nucleo Sistemi Informativi
     Luca Calderano





From gh at ghaering.de  Thu Jul 31 04:25:56 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 10:25:56 +0200
Subject: Misuse of <tab>
In-Reply-To: <200307301820.51591.shalehperry@comcast.net>
References: <3f27f0e3$1@news.broadpark.no>
	<3f28287e$0$103$8f4e7992@newsreader.goldengate.net>
	<200307301820.51591.shalehperry@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <3F28D294.8080302@ghaering.de>

Sean 'Shaleh' Perry wrote:
> On Wednesday 30 July 2003 13:20, Michael Sampson wrote:
> 
>>How does the IDLE that comes with the latest release of python handle this?
>>When it automaticly indents does it do it with spaces or tabs?  If you hit
>>tab in the IDLE will it just put 5 spaces in for you?
> 
> thou shalt always use even numbered indents. [...]

Why?

-- Gerhard




From mis6 at pitt.edu  Mon Jul 21 13:18:57 2003
From: mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato)
Date: 21 Jul 2003 10:18:57 -0700
Subject: feature request: a better str.endswith
References: <2259b0e2.0307180401.5dae02f2@posting.google.com> <mailman.1058530829.7072.python-list@python.org> <3f17f883$0$49107$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl> <2259b0e2.0307190529.57338b3f@posting.google.com> <NpkSa.16049$7O.14695@nwrdny01.gnilink.net> <2259b0e2.0307200721.16ef2ea1@posting.google.com> <45228044.0307210522.1ef95144@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <2259b0e2.0307210918.614892ba@posting.google.com>

chrisperkins37 at hotmail.com (Chris Perkins) wrote in message news:<45228044.0307210522.1ef95144 at posting.google.com>...
> mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato) wrote in message news:<2259b0e2.0307200721.16ef2ea1 at posting.google.com>...
> > Oops! My mistake, I forgot the islice; it should be
> > 
> > the=lambda pred,seq: list(itertools.islice(itertools.ifilter(pred,seq),0,1))
> > 
> > in such a way that we exit at the first hit, otherwise one could just use
> > the standard "filter". 
> 
> How about:
> 
> def the(pred,seq): return True in itertools.imap(pred,seq)
> 
> if you really want to use the name "the" ("any" makes much more sense to me).
> 
> Chris


That's a good idea, indeed. BTW, in this context I feel that

 if the(filename.endswith, ('.jpg','.jpeg','.gif','.png')):
    dosomething()

is more clear than 

 if any(filename.endswith, ('.jpg','.jpeg','.gif','.png')):
    dosomething()

which is confusing to me since it seems "any" is referred to "filename" 
whereas it is referred to the tuple elements.

 
   M.S.



From ianb at colorstudy.com  Sun Jul 20 22:17:35 2003
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: 20 Jul 2003 21:17:35 -0500
Subject: Possible use of Python for a voting machine demo project
	--your feedback requested
In-Reply-To: <GyGSa.111785$Io.9574045@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
References: <P9DSa.111436$Io.9552373@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
	 <mailman.1058740232.22829.python-list@python.org>
	 <GyGSa.111785$Io.9574045@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <1058753855.28094.2584.camel@lothlorien>

On Sun, 2003-07-20 at 19:34, Alan Dechert wrote:
> > I really don't know why everyone wants to use touchscreens in voting
> > machines.  I hate touch screens, they are a horrible input method.
> >
> A lot of people agree with you.  Certainly, the Australians that designed
> their system would agree.  They went for a keypad.
> 
> http://www.softimp.com.au/evacs.html

I think the ATM model is considerably better than a keypad.  In a keypad
you have to view the number, then change focus and enter in the number,
then confirm the number and the selection.  Thinking particularly about
old people who aren't comfortable with computers, this sort of focus
shift is very difficult, though in the case of a keypad likely everyone
will have this focus shift and find the process more difficult as a
result.  The ATM model (buttons on the side of the monitor) doesn't
require any shift in focus, because the input devide (the buttons) and
the select itself are visually linked.

> On the other hand, a lot of people really really like the touch screens.  We
> can't make them all mouse driven since a percentage of the voters will have
> a big problem with that.  But there is no reason to give up on mouse driven
> systems just because some people can't use them.  Mice are very cheap and
> most people are used to them.  So we just need to have enough non-Mice
> systems to accommodate those that need/want them.  One nice thing about the
> touch screen with our system is that it will look and work exactly the same
> whether you use a mouse or touch screen.

Mice, unlike keypads, are comfortable for many people.  But an older
person generally has to think very hard about the movement of the mouse
to match it with the screen (since they are often reasoning to
themselves about how to move, rather than having an intuitive body-sense
of the mouse).

Any technique that has different levels of accessibility seems like it
would meet criticism for that.  People will have to decide which booth
to use, will have to be informed about the differences, and may find it
easier or harder than they thought once they choose.  But maybe it's not
a big deal, I don't know.

I think the ATM-style buttons should be fairly cheap, though.  You
already have to create an enclosure for the monitor, and in general
while you'll be using commodity PC parts you'll still have to set the
system up with a certain amount of care.

Speed should be excellent -- because of the tactile feedback and
reliability of the input, people could vote more confidently with less
error.  I would expect 100% accuracy with respect to the actual input
(though inaccuracies in reading, or simple indecisiveness will still
cause errors).  The one problem I would imagine would be the increased
difficulty of the interface for changing your vote, and that displaying
the current status of your vote would be exclusive with displaying the
choices for a particular race to choose among.  But since ultimately
correctness is ensured by confirming the printed ballot, I'm less
concerned about editing if it means you can go through the process more
quickly.  (You could make the vote a single keypress, but then display
at the top of the screen what your last selection was while still
presenting the choices for the next race... given enough room you could
even just split the screen in two and show all previous selections)

Potentially by using braille the keys could be blind-accessible, when
accompanied with some sort of audio.  Since the system would already be
modal when using keys, it wouldn't have to be adapted significantly for
that situation -- you'd simply need to change a setting on one of the
computers to do audio output and attach headphones, and then you'd have
your accessible booth.

Anyway, I just like keyboards more than mice if you can't tell...

  Ian






From dave at nullcube.com  Wed Jul 30 05:02:15 2003
From: dave at nullcube.com (Dave Harrison)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 19:02:15 +1000
Subject: egenix mx package weirdness
Message-ID: <20030730090215.GA1886@dave@alana.ucc.usyd.edu.au>

And so go on my solaris woes ;-)

Due to my impending insanity I shall keep this brief,

Solaris 9, Python 2.1.1, MySQLdb 0.9.1, and mx 2.0.2

I am using these versions because I am plugging into an existing sensitive system, upgrading is pretty much a no go (not my choice).

MySQLdb works fine on its own, and mx works fine on its own.
But install the two together, and mx breaks MySQLdb.  mx however appears
to continue to work.

The error is quite simply a coredump.

Anyone have similar experiences/problems ? any ideas ?

grazias
Dave




From alanmk at hotmail.com  Mon Jul 21 17:25:19 2003
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 22:25:19 +0100
Subject: A challenge to the ASCII proponents.
References: <mailman.1058278343.23104.python-list@python.org> <bf167a$pvt$1@panix2.panix.com> <ufzl7rdno.fsf@online.no> <3F142A58.80426AA4@hotmail.com> <2259b0e2.0307161620.4a9353f1@posting.google.com> <Xns93BB246FDDBCFJanC@213.118.75.80> <3F168011.3AEB3EFC@hotmail.com> <3F172442.2040907@v.loewis.de> <oprsg8jf1xttxc4i@news.t-online.de> <3F195CC4.D426E416@hotmail.com> <slrnbhjm31.tp.bignose-hates-spam@rose.localdomain.fake> <3F1AA450.765D07FD@hotmail.com> <slrnbhmt6t.si4.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local> <3F1BB7A3.D4223855@hotmail.com> <bfhkel$mmp$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <3F1C5A3F.962BC15E@hotmail.com>

[Much discussion elided, because it's definitely way off topic]

Bengt Richter wrote:

> Which part, though? The encoding, or the fact that you see the encoding
> in the above instead of its being rendered with the intended appearance?
> 
> IOW, any solution will involve *some* encoding and the possibility of
> rendering it "raw" or interpreted. A smart GUI might have a default
> mode showing everything interpreted, and have a "view source" button.

I did just want to make one quick point about this.

I believe that a major part of the reasons for the success of the URI
scheme is their simplicity and transcribability, especially in
situations that may not immediately involve a computer. I think most
people been through one or more of the following

1. Spoken a URI over the telephone.
2. Seen URIs on passing taxis/trucks/trains/planes/automobiles
3. Scribbled a URI on a business card, or scrap of paper
4. Sent a URI by SMS text message, i.e. tapping it out on a 10-key
phone keypad.
5. Printed a URI on their own business card.
6. "Handwritten" a URI into PDA handwriting recognition software.

I have a little difficulty with the insistence that 2 character
iso-latin-1 escape codes go easily in all the above situations. Should
I have to say

http://xhaus.com/%F3cinn%E9ide

instead of

http://xhaus.com/?cinn?ide

If I use the latter, then that's an illegal URI.

It's a wart.

But it's not a python wart, so I'll shut up now :-L

regards,

-- 
alan kennedy
-----------------------------------------------------
check http headers here: http://xhaus.com/headers
email alan:              http://xhaus.com/mailto/alan



From irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl  Sat Jul 26 16:23:58 2003
From: irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 22:23:58 +0200
Subject: cgi.FieldStorage not parsing query string
Message-ID: <3f22e35d$0$49115$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

Hi
I'm using cgi.FieldStorage to parse the HTTP request parameters
of a form submission. When the form is submitted using method="GET"
it correctly parses all form parameters.

However, if the form is submitted using "POST" (that's what I want!)
things go different. It only seems to parse the form parameters
that are sent *inside* the POST requst body.

Usually this is no problem, for instance when you POST it to the
following URL:   http://www.host.com/script.cgi

But if you add URL-encoded parameters, and use POST, the
URL-encoded parameters are lost:
http://www.host.com/script.cgi?extraarg=foobar
"extraarg" does not appear in the FieldStorage object.

Looking at the code it appears that FieldStorage is only parsing
the URL-encoded parameters (the QUERY_STRING) if the request
method is GET or HEAD, not when it is POST.

I'm not sure if this is correct. I think it is faulty behavior,
because if I do this with a Java Servlet, I *do* get the
URL-encoded parameters too. For the time being, I will call
cgi.parse_qsl myself and add the resulting list to the
FieldStorage list so that I *do* have all parameters.

Can somebody tell me if FieldStorage is wrong or that I
am mistaken here?

Thank you,
--Irmen de Jong




From staschuk at telusplanet.net  Mon Jul 28 16:37:34 2003
From: staschuk at telusplanet.net (Steven Taschuk)
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 14:37:34 -0600
Subject: Loading and executing an arbitrary Python script from within Python
In-Reply-To: <20030727005710.05032.00000550@mb-m26.aol.com>; from rastm2@aol.commorespam on Sun, Jul 27, 2003 at 04:57:10AM +0000
References: <20030726094624.15169.00000599@mb-m13.aol.com> <20030727005710.05032.00000550@mb-m26.aol.com>
Message-ID: <20030728143734.B1276@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>

Quoth Raymond Arthur St. Marie II of III :
  [...]
> Did I get the concept wrong about using
> a generater in a try section? Is this code legal anyone?
> 
> Or does this only pertain to the yeild statement in a try.

The prohibition is on yield statements in the try section of a
try-finally statement.  The posted code is fine.

(This is prohibited because there is no guarantee that execution
will ever return to the generator after the yield -- the caller
might never call .next() again -- and so the finally block might
never be executed.  This was judged too grave a violation of
try/finally's semantics to permit.)

-- 
Steven Taschuk                          staschuk at telusplanet.net
"Its force is immeasurable.  Even Computer cannot determine it."
                           -- _Space: 1999_ episode "Black Sun"




From maxm at mxm.dk  Thu Jul 10 04:20:36 2003
From: maxm at mxm.dk (Max M)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 10:20:36 +0200
Subject: Zope problem:  objectValues('Folder')
In-Reply-To: <3F0D11C7.4010805@gmx.de>
References: <3F0D11C7.4010805@gmx.de>
Message-ID: <3F0D21D4.3040902@mxm.dk>

Jens Riedel wrote:

> I try to get a list of subfolders by using

> <ul>
> <dtml-in expr="objectValues('Folder')">
> <li><a href="&dtml-absolute_url;"><dtml-var title_or_id></a></li><br>
> </dtml-in>
> </ul>


If you have written it exactly like that, it should work. You have no 
folders inside the folder you are running it in then.


> Does anybody know where the problem with "objectValues('Folder/File')" is?


I assume you have not written your code that way, but rather:

     objectValues(['Folder','File'])


regards Max M




From g2h5dqi002 at sneakemail.com  Thu Jul 10 00:20:39 2003
From: g2h5dqi002 at sneakemail.com (Greg Ewing (using news.cis.dfn.de))
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 16:20:39 +1200
Subject: A story about Python... sort of
In-Reply-To: <wz3chgep96.fsf@nono.cs.uu.nl>
References: <mailman.1057554011.6652.python-list@python.org> <mailman.1057601112.30635.python-list@python.org> <O8lOa.805$sY2.237@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net> <wz3chgep96.fsf@nono.cs.uu.nl>
Message-ID: <beintd$5kqlt$1@ID-169208.news.dfncis.de>

Piet van Oostrum wrote:
> Both problems can be solved by stopping when space is exhausted, waiting
> until technique has evolved enough to upload the state of the computation
> to the new extended hardware etc. 

Hmmm. So, if the universe is open and contains an infinite
amount of matter, then we could solve chess eventually,
but we might have to wait a while for the limits of the
observable universe to expand sufficiently...

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg




From pyth at devel.trillke.net  Tue Jul  8 12:03:59 2003
From: pyth at devel.trillke.net (holger krekel)
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 18:03:59 +0200
Subject: path module
In-Reply-To: <87smphf43l.fsf@pobox.com>; from jjl@pobox.com on Tue, Jul 08, 2003 at 04:08:46PM +0100
References: <1057651068.5348.386.camel@lothlorien> <mailman.1057656790.5578.python-list@python.org> <87smphf43l.fsf@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <20030708180359.I6906@prim.han.de>

John J. Lee wrote:
> holger krekel <pyth at devel.trillke.net> writes:
> [...]
> > Recently, i also did some experimentation with "virtual-fs" features so 
> > that you can transparently access http/ftp/svn files/directories.  I even 
> > got that to work with "<tab>-completion" but that was quite a hack :-)
> [...]
> 
> Note that this overlaps a bit with urllib and urllib2.  Just something
> that would need thinking about.

sure, i used *urllib* under the hood :-)
    
    holger




From owski at hotmail.com  Mon Jul 14 19:38:56 2003
From: owski at hotmail.com (Adam Ruth)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 23:38:56 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: anything like C++ references?
References: <000301c348c7$3c501980$21795418@dell1700> 
	<sag3hv4vf884ed7ouu5cv8ofnopp9j1t12@4ax.com> 
	<f0f51c80.0307132003.264b6894@posting.google.com> 
	<7dc4hvslh7a8fk9p6cvsfqa1c8d44rmmnv@4ax.com> 
	<beuepu$bsm$1@panix3.panix.com> 
	<sdd6hvsmsq32o62oknpqft6dc61lbup8rn@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <20030714173855120-0600@news.xmission.com>

In <sdd6hvsmsq32o62oknpqft6dc61lbup8rn at 4ax.com> Stephen Horne  wrote:
> On 14 Jul 2003 10:30:22 -0400, aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) wrote:
> 
>>In article <7dc4hvslh7a8fk9p6cvsfqa1c8d44rmmnv at 4ax.com>,
>>Stephen Horne  <intentionally at blank.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>C++ has precisely one type of variable. That variable is a 
>>>placeholder for a value of a datatype which is specified in the 
>>>declaration. The datatype may be a pointer datatype, but so what? 
>>>Pointer datatypes are not treated any differently than other datatype 
>>>except that they, like all datatypes, they have their own set of 
>>>functionality.
>>
>>Really?  I would argue that the differing syntaxes is an argument
>>against a single type of variable.  What happens with this:
>>
>>char a;
>>a->b;
> 
> To answer this, I simply have to restore the quote you deleted...
> 
>: On 13 Jul 2003 21:03:59 -0700, owski at hotmail.com (Adam Ruth) wrote:
>: 
>: >I don't see the arbitrary change.  Python has one type of variable: 
>: >A pointer that cannot itself be dereferenced.  It's much more 
>: >consistent then having 3 types of variables (in C++).
> 
> This is not referring to data types - there are far more than three
> data types in C++. It is referring to whether something is a pointer
> or a reference or not. The mistake in Adams post simply being that
> these are simply datatypes.
> 
> You will note that even in my words, I tried to keep the distinction
> clear by using the word 'datatypes' when I was referring to datatypes.
> 
> In fact, lets look back at my first two scentences in your quote of my
> reply.
> 
>>>C++ has precisely one type of variable. That variable is a 
>>>placeholder for a value of a datatype which is specified in the 
>>>declaration.
> 
> One *type* of variable, which is associated with its own *datatype*.
> 
> I find it hard to see how you could confuse this, but given my own
> mistakes - well, we're all human I suppose.

So, then, what makes a different variable type?  If not different syntax 
and semantics, what would be the signature?

Let me see if I understand what you're saying.  Even though C++ 
variables can have different syntax and semantics (depending sometimes 
on context), the're all really the same internally and are therefore 
perfectly consistent and usable.  Python variables, on the other hand (
mutable and immutable) have somewhat different semantics (a debatable 
point) but identical implementaions (indeed, indistinguishable), but are 
somehow invalid?  

You say that there is one gold standard definition for what a variable 
is.  Yet even though C++ deals with variables in three semantically 
distinct way, they are somehow all valid within that definition?

Adam Ruth



From alanmk at hotmail.com  Wed Jul 23 08:21:15 2003
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 13:21:15 +0100
Subject: recognizing empty iterators
References: <2259b0e2.0307210626.11a1bbf1@posting.google.com> <mailman.1058835583.22488.python-list@python.org> <2259b0e2.0307220744.156c95bf@posting.google.com> <bfjnjd$si3$1@news1.wdf.sap-ag.de>
Message-ID: <3F1E7DBB.B8D97257@hotmail.com>

Daniel Dittmar wrote:

> It shouldn't be too difficult to write an iterator wrapper class
> that does exactly what you want (not tested):
> 
> class IteratorWrapper:
>     def __init__ (self, iterArg):
>         iterArg = iter (iterArg)
>         try:
>             self.firstElement = iterArg.next ()
>             self.isEmpty = false
>             self.next = self.returnFirstElement
>             self.baseIter = iterArg
>         except StopIteration:
>             self.isEmpty = true
>             self.next = self.throwStopIteration
> 
>     def returnFirstElement (self):
>         self.next = self.baseIter.next
>         return self.firstElement
> 
>     def throwStopIteration (self):
>         throw StopIteration
          ^^^^^

Ahem, cough, I think, em, maybe you mean "raise"?

That java stuff polluting your mind, eh? ;-)

As an aside, I've got to hand it to Java for exception handling. Java
was the language that taught me how to do proper and robust exception
handling, by "rapping my knuckles" continually, and actually making me
think about the exception hierarchies I was generating and processing.
You can't just randomly define and generate new exceptions: you have
to change your method definition to declare that it can throw the new
exception. Which means you either have to handle the exception in the
calling method, or change *that* method signature to permit
re-throwing of the exception, and so on up the hierarchy. 

It's not very pythonic though.

regards,

-- 
alan kennedy
-----------------------------------------------------
check http headers here: http://xhaus.com/headers
email alan:              http://xhaus.com/mailto/alan



From duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk  Tue Jul 15 10:24:45 2003
From: duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk (Duncan Booth)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 14:24:45 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [OT] sentances with two meanings
References: <37d6f77c.0307130932.1e3adf0d@posting.google.com> <3f11ac74$0$49101$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl> <ad052e5c.0307131718.4903430d@posting.google.com> <3F12808B.E53193B8@hotmail.com> <87brvw3ula.fsf@pobox.com> <4701fb.8co.ln@195.171.216.1>
Message-ID: <Xns93B99C8B951A6duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

"Colin S. Miller" <colinsm.spam-me-not at picsel.com> wrote in 
news:4701fb.8co.ln at 195.171.216.1:

>> Matthew 25:35  I was a stranger, and you took me in.
> Care to enlighten us with the second meaning?
> I'm a native English speaker, but can only see one meaning
> 'I was unknown to you, yet you let me stay in your house'
> Although 'took me in' could also mean 'accept as a friend'

To "take someone in" means to trick or deceive them.

>From 
http://www.chambersharrap.co.uk/chambers/chref/chref.py/main?query=take&tit
le=21st (Must be a good dictionary if they use Python):

take someone in 1 to include them. 2 to give them accommodation or shelter. 
3 to deceive or cheat them.

-- 
Duncan Booth                                             duncan at rcp.co.uk
int month(char *p){return(124864/((p[0]+p[1]-p[2]&0x1f)+1)%12)["\5\x8\3"
"\6\7\xb\1\x9\xa\2\0\4"];} // Who said my code was obscure?



From max at alcyone.com  Thu Jul 24 22:57:44 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 19:57:44 -0700
Subject: file.close()
References: <edITa.131868$Ph3.17333@sccrnsc04> <mailman.1059052897.16526.python-list@python.org> <O%%Ta.139319$Ph3.16718@sccrnsc04>
Message-ID: <3F209CA8.C694BBAF@alcyone.com>

Bryan wrote:

> you are correct this is so awesome... at least for me it is... now i
> remove
> a lot of my clutter too :)   i just did some tests on windows by
> trying to
> delete file1 at the command prompt when raw_input is called.

You don't have to use so circuitous a mechanism, just define a custom
class with a __del__ method:

>>> class C:
...  def __del__(self): print 'C.__del__'
... 
>>> c = C()
>>> del c
C.__del__
>>> def f():
...  C()
... 
>>> f()
C.__del__
>>> def g():
...  c = C()
... 
>>> g()
C.__del__

> can you explain to me how the file gets closed?  i'm sure that garbage
> collection hasn't happed at the point that i call raw_input.  it must
> have
> something to do with the reference count of the file object.  does
> python
> immediately call close for you when the reference count goes to zero? 
> i
> want the dirty details...

Yes, the CPython implementation destructs objects as soon as the
reference count goes to zero.  In the latter three cases, you're not
explicitly closing the file, but the file object has its last reference
removed (either by explicit deletion or by going out of scope in a local
block), and so the file is getting closed.  You would see different
behavior in Jython, for instance, which since it is implemented in Java,
uses Java's rules for finalization (namely that it is not specified in
how timely a manner finalization occurs).  Python the language -- a
bigger concept than either CPython or Jython -- leaves it unspecified
when objects are destructed.

It is _never_ a bad idea to explicitly close files, or explicitly shut
down any access to important physical resources.

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ War is the province of chance.
\__/  Karl von Clausewitz



From adsr at poczta.onet.pl  Thu Jul 31 04:52:41 2003
From: adsr at poczta.onet.pl (AdSR)
Date: 31 Jul 2003 01:52:41 -0700
Subject: Python2.3 and MySQLdb on Windows
References: <pU_Va.38100$ib2.10551507@twister.neo.rr.com>
Message-ID: <422a840f.0307310052.501f7c14@posting.google.com>

"Mike M" <mmoum at woh.rr.com> wrote...
> Python2.3 and MySQLdb don't seem to work together on Windows.  If I
> understand the error message correctly, the problem seems to be that the
> _mysql binary expects version 2.2 of the Python dll.  Does anyone know of a
> fix for this, or when a Windows version that works with 2.3 will be
> available?

>From SF.net support requests tracker:

"""
Date: 2003-07-30 22:01
Sender: adustman
Logged In: YES 
user_id=71372

The CVS version is compatible now. I hope to have a full
release done in the next couple weeks.

Windows packages are another question entirely. I can't make
these myself, and am not really inclined to anyway. So one
will be available when someone (other than me) makes one and
lets me know about it.
"""

Windows installers for Python 2.1 and 2.2 were provided by Gerhard
H?ring, let's ask him nicely to do the same for 2.3.

Cheers,

AdSR



From owski at hotmail.com  Wed Jul 16 15:25:01 2003
From: owski at hotmail.com (Adam Ruth)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 19:25:01 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Augmented Assignment question
References: <215bhv0bnkn13eivh0s64ic5ml8obpgfg7@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <20030716132455272-0600@news.xmission.com>

In <215bhv0bnkn13eivh0s64ic5ml8obpgfg7 at 4ax.com> Doug Tolton  wrote:
> I have a function that returns a tuple:
> 
>     def checkdoc(self, document):
>         blen = document['length']
>         bates = document['obates']
> 
>         normal, truncated, semicolon = 0,0,0
>         for bat in bates:
>             if len(bat) == 2 * blen:
>                 semicolon += 1
>             if len(bat) == blen - 1:
>                 truncated += 1
>             if len(bat) == blen:
>                 normal += 1
> 
>         return normal, truncated, semicolon
> 
> on the other side I have 3 variables:
> normal, truncated and semicolon
> 
> I would like to be able to do an augmented assignment such as:
> 
> normal, truncated, semicol += self.checkdoc(mydoc)
> 
> however this returns the following error:
> SyntaxError: augmented assign to tuple not possible
> 
> I did some reading and it seems that an augmented assignment is
> specifically verboten on tuples and lists.  Is there a clean way to
> accomplish this?  I dislike in the extreme what I've resorted to:
> 
> fnormal, ftruncated, fsemicolon = 0,0,0
> 
> // loop through a file and process all documents:
> 	normal, truncated, semicolon = self.checkdoc(curdoc)
> 	fnormal += normal
> 	ftruncated += truncated
> 	fsemicolon += semicolon
> 
> This solution strikes me as inelegant and ugly.  Is there a cleaner
> way of accomplishing this?
> 
> Thanks in advance,
> Doug Tolton
> dougt at<remove this>case<remove this too>data dot com
> 

I don't think it's all that inelegant, and it's definitely clear.  I can 
see, though, why a one liner would seem a little cleaner.

Off the top of my head, I'd say to change your checkdoc function to this:

>     def checkdoc(self, document, normal=0, truncated=0, semicolon=0):
>         blen = document['length']
>         bates = document['obates']
>         for bat in bates:
>             if len(bat) == 2 * blen:
>                 semicolon += 1
>             if len(bat) == blen - 1:
>                 truncated += 1
>             if len(bat) == blen:
>                 normal += 1
> 
>         return normal, truncated, semicolon

And then call it like this:

> 	normal, truncated, semicolon = self.checkdoc(curdoc, normal, 
> truncated, semicolon)

As a side note, I wouldn't have thought that the augmented assign would 
work the way you tried to use it.  I would have thought that it would be 
analagous to the + operator and sequences:

>	x = [1,2,3]
>	y = [1,2,3]
>	x + y
[1,2,3,1,2,3]

So that the agumented form would be:

>	x = [1,2,3]
>	x += [1,2,3]
[1,2,3,1,2,3]

But I've never tried it before and didn't know that it didn't work with 
sequences.  You learn something new every day.

Adam Ruth



From mal at lemburg.com  Tue Jul  8 12:04:11 2003
From: mal at lemburg.com (M.-A. Lemburg)
Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 18:04:11 +0200
Subject: mx odbc
In-Reply-To: <3f0accb5$0$13191$edfadb0f@dread15.news.tele.dk>
References: <3f0accb5$0$13191$edfadb0f@dread15.news.tele.dk>
Message-ID: <3F0AEB7B.1000308@lemburg.com>

Kim Petersen wrote:
> Regarding ODBC usage in Python...
> 
> it seems to me that there is a couple of ways to use odbc from python,
> one of these is the MX version - now that one has a pretty steep licence 
> cost (imho). So now comes my question (from reading this group quite a 
> bit):
> 
>     - what is the basic reason for using MX versus the others?

Having a maintained and actively supported ODBC interface which
works on all major platforms, not just Windows ?!

-- 
Marc-Andre Lemburg
eGenix.com

Professional Python Software directly from the Source  (#1, Jul 08 2003)
 >>> Python/Zope Products & Consulting ...         http://www.egenix.com/
 >>> mxODBC, mxDateTime, mxTextTools ...        http://python.egenix.com/
________________________________________________________________________
2003-07-01: Released mxODBC.Zope.DA for FreeBSD             1.0.6 beta 1





From gcash at luncheonmeat.cfl.rr.com  Tue Jul 29 21:58:07 2003
From: gcash at luncheonmeat.cfl.rr.com (gcash)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 01:58:07 GMT
Subject: win32: anybody used IE's OnNewWindow2 event??
Message-ID: <adawydw4.fsf@cfl.rr.com>

OK, I've written a tool to do a bunch of Internet Explorer point&click
using win32all, and it's been rather fun.

I've run into a sticking point though... when I click some links, they
open up a new window where they expect you to fill out a form, and
when you submit it, it closes the window and forces the main screen to
a new URL.

Problem is, I can't find *ANY* way of getting control of that window,
in order to fill out the form automatically.  There's no data
structure that seems to lead to other windows associated with a
session.

Some of the small windows I've simply dissected the code and used
httplib to submit the form, then forced the URL navigation
myself. However, some of the windows are rather nasty pieces of
javascript that aren't amenable to this approach.

There's supposed to be an event called "OnNewWindow2" called when a
page opens a new window through javascript or a "target" parameter.

It has 2 parameters: an object and a cancel flag.  These seem to be
"out" parameters, and I think you're supposed to whip up a new
InternetExplorer.Application.1 and pass it back in the object
parameter or set the cancel parameter to false.  The new app object is
then used for the new window.

This event *does* get fired when it should, but both the arguments are
"None".

I can't figure out how to use this... can somebody help me out?  I
tried googling about this and got almost no hits.

Does anyone have example code?

I've also looked at the genpy-generated code, looking for some sort of
handle on finding "child" subwindows (not frames, new top-level
instances) Is there some trick I'm missing??  Given a link "target"
name, can I find the instance of explorer (i.e. the "document" object)
that's servicing that window?

This is kicking my butt.

-gc

-- 
I've never tried emacs because I already _have_ an OS on this peecee.
-- mikea at mikea.ath.cx (Mike Andrews)



From ableier at axelero.hu  Wed Jul  2 13:45:12 2003
From: ableier at axelero.hu (Attila Bleier)
Date: 2 Jul 2003 10:45:12 -0700
Subject: My Big Dict.
References: <mailman.1057119003.11991.python-list@python.org> <20030702073735.40293ba2.christophe.delord@free.fr> <TXvMa.9902$BM.3065756@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <6d0c7d3b.0307020945.7ebbdffb@posting.google.com>

"drs" <drs at ecp.cc> wrote in message news:<TXvMa.9902$BM.3065756 at newssrv26.news.prodigy.com>...
> "Christophe Delord" <christophe.delord at free.fr> wrote in message
> news:20030702073735.40293ba2.christophe.delord at free.fr...
> > Hello,
> >
> > On Wed, 2 Jul 2003 00:13:26 -0400, Xavier wrote:
> >
> > > Greetings,
> > >
> > > (do excuse the possibly comical subject text)
> > >
> > > I need advice on how I can convert a text db into a dict.  Here is an
> > > example of what I need done.
> > >
> > > some example data lines in the text db goes as follows:
> > >
> > > CODE1!DATA1 DATA2, DATA3
> > > CODE2!DATA1, DATA2 DATA3
> > >
> > > As you can see, the lines are dynamic and the data are not alike, they
> > > change in permission values (but that's obvious in any similar
> > > situation)
> > >
> > > Any idea on how I can convert 20,000+ lines of the above into the
> > > following protocol for use in my code?:
> > >
> > > TXTDB = {'CODE1': 'DATA1 DATA2, DATA3', 'CODE2': 'DATA1, DATA2 DATA3'}
> > >
> >
> > If your data is in a string you can use a regular expression to parse
> > each line, then the findall method returns a list of tuples containing
> > the key and the value of each item. Finally the dict class can turn this
> > list into a dict. For example:
> 
> and you can kill a fly with a sledgehammer.  why not
> 
> f = open('somefile.txt')
> d = {}
> l = f.readlines()
> for i in l:
>     a,b = i.split('!')
>     d[a] = b.strip()
> 
> or am i missing something obvious? (b/t/w the above parsed 20000+ lines on a
> celeron 500 in less than a second.)
> 
> -d
Just a short notice, l=f.readlines() line is not needed at all. It is
a bit more comprehensive to write for i in f.readlines(): instead - as
l is not used elsewhere - it is only  memory wasting.Not a big deal,
but it is worth noticing. Using regexp to justify the line length, and
# of exlamation marks etc - is not needed in most cases, I think - it
is easier and faster to put the whole stuff into a try : except
clause. I admit though that there are cases in which they might come
in handy - in this case though, it seems to be an overkill.
Attila



From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Wed Jul 16 16:54:19 2003
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 16 Jul 2003 16:54:19 -0400
Subject: anything like C++ references?
References: <b8c3hvsesjoumiboobml3nsnajtha99mp1@4ax.com> <frn8hvggtom4vqen1s0ktr1hijfm9cvfe7@4ax.com> <3F149C69.7B990210@alcyone.com> <32cbhvkife283kggrn8btlql91eaitmka2@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <bf4e1r$mkc$1@panix3.panix.com>

In article <32cbhvkife283kggrn8btlql91eaitmka2 at 4ax.com>,
Stephen Horne  <intentionally at blank.co.uk> wrote:
>On Tue, 15 Jul 2003 17:29:29 -0700, Erik Max Francis <max at alcyone.com>
>wrote:
>>
>>Python does _not_ have copy semantics, it has binding semantics.
>
>As you know, that's precisely what I see as a wart.

Were you to stick with language that clearly agreed with that assertion,
I'd spend a lot less time arguing with you.  But you've been writing as
if Python's binding semantics are a major design flaw, when in fact
they're part of the core language philosophy.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

A: No.
Q: Is top-posting okay?



From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Jul  4 14:02:32 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 14:02:32 -0400
Subject: Python is a gem, you need to keep pushing it ....
References: <mailman.1057327627.5127.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3F05C138.687F5A06@engcorp.com>

sismex01 at hebmex.com wrote:
> 
> > From: Peter Hansen [mailto:peter at engcorp.com]
> > Sent: Viernes, 04 de Julio de 2003 07:42 a.m.
> >
> > delphiro wrote:
> > >
> > [attribution removed... don't do that!]
> > > > Python *is* great but lets not pretend that its a good
> > > > fit for every problem.
> > >
> > > I doubt that (unless you develop hardware drivers).
> >
> > Are you saying that you think Python _is_ a good fit
> > for every problem, excluding only hardware drivers?
> >
> > -Peter
> >
> 
> Seems like he is; in my experience Python has been flexible
> enough to fit any problem I've tossed at it.

As it has for me, but neither you nor I have thrown *every*
problem at it, and the OP appears to be stating that he believes
we would never find Python inadequate, no matter what we threw
at it (exception hardware drivers again).

As an example, one could argue that embedded systems are not
merely "hardware drivers" (one could also argue that they are,
but I do not), yet we've found Python suitable in only one 
of our embedded system products.

-Peter



From martin at v.loewis.de  Tue Jul 29 00:39:16 2003
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-15?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 29 Jul 2003 06:39:16 +0200
Subject: minidom xml attribute creation
References: <mailman.1059426643.11611.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m3he56lzez.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

"Nate Gelbard" <gelbardn at tripwire.com> writes:

> Any ideas?

Verify that you are running precisely the same software on both
systems. In particular, print xml.dom.minidom.__file__.

Regards,
Martin




From ben at dadsetan.com  Wed Jul  9 02:40:31 2003
From: ben at dadsetan.com (Behrang Dadsetan)
Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 08:40:31 +0200
Subject: __eq__ and __ne__
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1057683012.9833.python-list@python.org>
References: <BIEJKCLHCIOIHAGOKOLHAEFCGDAA.tim@zope.com>	 <3F0AEC76.8080304@zope.com> <1057681289.2342.34.camel@slothrop.zope.com> <mailman.1057683012.9833.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <begdg0$67t$1@online.de>

Shane Hathaway wrote:
> Jeremy Hylton wrote:
<snip>
> Actually, C++ generates a compiler error if you try to do that.  (See 
> the attached program.)  Java doesn't run into this because it has a 
> simpler interface: the only operator you can override is equals().  So 
> in this case, C++ is fully explicit and Java is fully implicit, while 
> Python makes a guess.  If we can't make it implicit like Java, then it 
> seems preferable for Python to raise an exception, similar to C++, when 
> you use the != operator with an instance that implements __eq__ but not 
> __ne__.
> 
> Shane
> 
<snip>


+1
would be probably very helpful

The only problem I see is that it would break "perlish" code (code you 
would not understand the behaviour of 3 weeks later). Of course some 
code might never use the __ne__ of its "__eq__ overloaded class" and 
therefore lived happily so far, but it is dangerous code anyway.

Regards, Ben.




From llafba at gmx.net  Tue Jul  8 05:17:37 2003
From: llafba at gmx.net (Tom)
Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 11:17:37 +0200
Subject: start script automatically
Message-ID: <bee2dg$8q3$1@news.uni-kl.de>

Hi,

I have a problem because I don't know how to start my script 
automatically after a special event happens.

In detail: I store data from a PLC. Every 30 seconds the data is stored 
in a new file. After the file is stored I would like to start my script 
that analyzes the data right away. Any help how to do this is deeply 
appreciated.

Thank you very much in advance.
Regards, Tom




From trp at smyrncable.net  Wed Jul  2 08:20:20 2003
From: trp at smyrncable.net (trp)
Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 08:20:20 -0400
Subject: splitting a string into 2 new strings
References: <bdue2n$m07$1@aspen.sucs.soton.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <vg5jjqcc8d2r1f@corp.supernews.com>

Mark Light wrote:

> Hi,
>       I have a string e.g. 'C6 H12 O6' that I wish to split up to give 2
> strings
> 'C H O' and '6 12 6'.  I have played with string.split() and the re module
> - but can't quite get there.
> 
> Any help would be greatly appreciated.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Mark.

I'm, assuming that these are chemical compounds, so you're not limited to
one-character symbols.

Here's how I'd do it

import re

re_pat = re.compile('([A-Z]+)(\d+)')
text = 'C6 H12 O6'

# find each component, returns list of tuples (e.g. [('C', '6'), ...]
component = re_pat.findall(text)

#split into separate lists
symbols, counts = zip(*component)

# create the strings
symbols = ' '.join(symbols)
counts = ' '.join(counts)

--Andy



 




From st.brodowski at eucrea.com  Fri Jul 11 02:20:51 2003
From: st.brodowski at eucrea.com (Steffen Brodowski)
Date: 10 Jul 2003 23:20:51 -0700
Subject: Image Streaming
References: <381a2b17.0307072326.211c21b5@posting.google.com>	 <mailman.1057652599.22950.python-list@python.org>	 <381a2b17.0307090622.2e22a716@posting.google.com> <mailman.1057765096.14295.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <381a2b17.0307102220.3b048352@posting.google.com>

Hi Ian,

> from cStringIO import StringIO
> def CreateBarcode(...):
>     # create image object
>     output = StringIO()
>     image.save(output, 'GIF')
>     return output.getvalue()

Yes, it works! Thank you!! 

Steffen Brodowski



From skip at pobox.com  Thu Jul 31 14:47:50 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 13:47:50 -0500
Subject: Python's biggest compromises
In-Reply-To: <899f842.0307310555.56134f71@posting.google.com>
References: <899f842.0307310555.56134f71@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <16169.25686.954375.649811@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    Anthony> What to you think python largest compromises are?

    Anthony> The three that come to my mind are significant whitespace,
    Anthony> dynamic typing, and that it is interpreted - not compiled.
    Anthony> These three put python under fire and cause some large projects
    Anthony> to move off python or relegate it to prototyping.

Your message is sure to get the pot boiling.  I don't think of any of the
above as compromises.  They were all design decisions.  Considering the
whitespace issue, calling it a compromise suggests that Guido had to cave in
to some outside forces.  He couldn't decide between BEGIN/END or {/} as
block delimiters, so he chose significant whitespace.  It doesn't make
sense.  

    Anthony> What about immutable strings? I'm not sure I understand Guido's
    Anthony> preference for them.

Performance is one reason.  The Python interpreter creates a huge number of
strings at runtime.  Knowing exactly how long the string is going to be and
that it will not grow means that a single malloc can be used to allocate the
object header and the storage for the data.  If strings were mutable, the
structure of the string object storage would probably be much different and
you'd need at minimum two mallocs per string, one for the object header and
one for the data itself.

Skip





From ianb at colorstudy.com  Thu Jul 10 22:58:38 2003
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: 10 Jul 2003 21:58:38 -0500
Subject: Securing 'pickle'
In-Reply-To: <3F0E1875.574DC6D7@alcyone.com>
References: <pan.2003.07.11.01.20.47.998070@127.0.0.1>
	 <slrnbgs4hc.hop.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>
	 <7x1xwxu98y.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>  <3F0E1875.574DC6D7@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <1057892317.3737.1356.camel@lothlorien>

On Thu, 2003-07-10 at 20:52, Erik Max Francis wrote:
> > Because now you need a mechanism to store the session info on the
> > server, and you might want it to work across multiple load-balanced
> > servers that fail over to one another, etc.
> 
> That's far superior to presenting the opportunity to exploits in the
> first place, in my opinion.  Depending on the contents of the contents
> of that cookie, what you suggest may not be a problem at all (depending
> on how critical the data contained therein is).

Security isn't a big deal -- or rather, securing cookies isn't a big
deal.  I think reliability will be a bigger problem.  Cookies can cause
problems even when you are just storing a simple session ID.  If you
start storing more information you're likely to run up against other
problems -- cookies can be hard to dispose of, who knows where they'll
get chopped off to preserve storage (it happens quickly), and IE has a
bug where you can't redirect and set a cookie at the same time, which
can really drive you crazy if you don't know about it.

Hidden fields are a much better way of keeping information on the
client.  They tend to make for more navigable pages too.  But if you
really want session, not transaction data, then you just need to figure
out server-side sessions.  The biggest advantage of a web application is
that it runs in a controlled environment (the server) and you should
take advantage of that.

  Ian






From FBatista at uniFON.com.ar  Tue Jul 15 17:03:07 2003
From: FBatista at uniFON.com.ar (Batista, Facundo)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 18:03:07 -0300
Subject: String Manipulation
Message-ID: <A128D751272CD411BC9200508BC2194D03382BB7@escpl.tcp.com.ar>

>>> orig = "aaa/bbb/ccc/dd"
>>> orig.split('/')[orig.count('/')]
'dd'
>>>


.	Facundo




#- -----Mensaje original-----
#- De: lamar_air at hotmail.com [mailto:lamar_air at hotmail.com]
#- Enviado el: Martes 15 de Julio de 2003 5:23 PM
#- Para: python-list at python.org
#- Asunto: String Manipulation
#- 
#- 
#- I need a piece of code that takes a string like this string1 =
#- "aaa/bbb/ccc/dd" and extracts a string containting the 
#- character after
#- the last "/"
#- 
#- So for this example the result would be "dd"
#- 
#- like this:
#- for i=0; string1.right(i) != '/'; i++
#- 
#- result = string1.mid(i, string1.length())
#- 
#- but in python.
#- -- 
#- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
#- 




From simonb at webone.com.au  Tue Jul 29 18:58:55 2003
From: simonb at webone.com.au (Simon Burton)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 08:58:55 +1000
Subject: inverse of the zip function
References: <9sBVa.12998$o%2.6289@sccrnsc02> <wdCVa.118$7h6.110@nwrdny03.gnilink.net> <pan.2003.07.29.22.31.46.551258@webone.com.au>
Message-ID: <pan.2003.07.29.22.58.51.153117@webone.com.au>

On Wed, 30 Jul 2003 08:31:47 +1000, Simon Burton wrote:

> On Tue, 29 Jul 2003 22:06:20 +0000, Raymond Hettinger wrote:
> 
>> "David C. Fox" <davidcfox at post.harvard.edu> wrote in message
>> news:9sBVa.12998$o%2.6289 at sccrnsc02...
>>> Is there a function which takes a list of tuples and returns a list of
>>> lists made up of the first element of each tuple, the second element of
>>> each tuple, etc.?
>>>
>>> In other words, the the inverse of the built-in zip function?
>> 
>> When used with the * operator, zip() is its own inverse:
>> 

OK, i think i see now. it's swapping rows<->columns, and might help this
other guy with his gridcontrols. But zip() should return (). No?

Simon.




From bart.NOSPAM.de.waal at quicknet.nl  Tue Jul  1 16:08:18 2003
From: bart.NOSPAM.de.waal at quicknet.nl (bart)
Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 22:08:18 +0200
Subject: placing text at point on console
Message-ID: <1057090010.408280@cache2>

I'm trying to place text at a certain point on the console. But I can't 
figure out any way to do this. For instance place a '@' at point 6,8. 
Any hints?

(I'm trying to display a 'map'. Think nethack)

Thanks,
     Bart




From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Mon Jul  7 09:44:20 2003
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 7 Jul 2003 09:44:20 -0400
Subject: Python vs PHP
References: <mailman.1057574470.1750.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bebtfk$h4j$1@panix3.panix.com>

In article <mailman.1057574470.1750.python-list at python.org>,
Catalin  <ady982 at ploiesti.astral.ro> wrote:
>
>Can Python replace PHP?
>Can I use a python program to make an interface to a mysql 4.X database?

The short answer is "yes" to both questions, but with a caveat: Python is
a general-purpose programming language, where PHP is designed to write
web applications.  So it's not quite as simple/straightforward to use
Python the same way you use PHP for plain web pages; conversely, if
you've been running into difficulty with PHP in trying to write
complicated program logic, you'll find Python a big help.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"Not everything in life has a clue in front of it...."  --JMS



From detlev at die-offenbachs.de  Sun Jul 27 13:20:40 2003
From: detlev at die-offenbachs.de (Detlev Offenbach)
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 19:20:40 +0200
Subject: eric3, pyqt, qscintilla - guru needed.
References: <tKPUa.121681$Io.10389062@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <PdRUa.121775$Io.10395818@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <k7edv-8i2.ln1@stargate.solsys.priv>

reh wrote:

> reh wrote:
> 
>> Have installed on Redhat 9.0 in the following order;
>> 
>> Qscintilla
>> sip
>> PyQt
>> 
>> When I install eric3 (python install.py), I get this error;
>>   Sorry, please install QScintilla and/or reinstall
>>   PyQt with QScintilla support.
>> 
>> It seems the errors occurs in the install.py file at:
>>   from qtext import QextScintilla
>> 
>> From qtext.py, I have typed in at the python prompt;
>>   >>> import libsip               # ok here
>>   >>> from qt import QWidet       # ok here
>>   >>> from qt import QObject      # ok here
>>   >>> from qt import QPrinter     # ok here
>>   >>> import libqtextc            # error here
>>   Traceback (most recent call last):
>>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
>>   ImportError: libqscintilla.so.2: cannot open shared object file: No
>>   such
>> file or directory
>>   >>>
>> 
>> Been through all readme files, tried just about everything.
>> Anyone have an idea what's wrong.
>> 
> Forgot to say that the libqscintilla.so.2 is in;
>   /usr/lib/qt-3.1/lib
> and the same path is in my /etc/ld.so.conf

Did you do a "ldconfig" after the installation of qscintilla? 

Detlev
-- 
Detlev Offenbach
detlev at die-offenbachs.de



From gumuz at looze.net  Thu Jul  3 11:33:37 2003
From: gumuz at looze.net (Guyon Morée)
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 17:33:37 +0200
Subject: Python Code Snippets
References: <be1hs0$111s$1@biggoron.nerim.net>
Message-ID: <3f044c20$0$8303$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net>

You're gonna love this :)

http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python


"Aur?lien G?ron" <ageron at HOHOHOHOvideotron.ca> wrote in message
news:be1hs0$111s$1 at biggoron.nerim.net...
> Hi,
>
> Does anyone know where I can find a lot of Python code snippets?
>
> I searched the Python wiki and Internet but could not find more than five
or
> ten code snippets at a time.
>
> I'm looking for a kind of organized list (GUI snippets, database access
> snippets, I/O snippets, etc.).  I find that there's no better way to learn
a
> language than to be able to cut&paste actual working bits of code.
>
> Thanks,
> Aur?lien
>
>





From dreed at capital.edu  Wed Jul  2 18:34:35 2003
From: dreed at capital.edu (Dave Reed)
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 18:34:35 -0400
Subject: python 2.3b[12]
Message-ID: <200307021834.35914.dreed@capital.edu>

I originally tried compiling python 2.3b1 on a Solaris 9 system with
--enable-shared and ran into some problems that someone helped me
resolve and said fixes were in CVS. I thien tried python 2.3b2 and it
compiled fine so the fixes made it in; however, it reports:

./python
Python 2.3b1 (#1, Jun 14 2003, 15:08:24) 
[GCC 3.2.3] on sunos5
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> 


I thought maybe this was just someone forgetting to update the startup
message for the new beta, but I've seen other messages that show
Python 2.3b2. 

Any ideas on what happened?

Dave






From brian at sweetapp.com  Sat Jul 12 18:45:03 2003
From: brian at sweetapp.com (Brian Quinlan)
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 15:45:03 -0700
Subject: anything like C++ references?
In-Reply-To: <13t0hvsb7idh0g6ac3upe5k0qd6flc17ah@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <000301c348c7$3c501980$21795418@dell1700>

> void change(int& i)
> {
>    i++;
> }

The idiomatic way to write this code in python would be:

def change(val):
	return val + 1

If you don't want to write it this way for some reason, you will have to
explain why.

Cheers,
Brian





From bokr at oz.net  Tue Jul 15 16:32:30 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 15 Jul 2003 20:32:30 GMT
Subject: anything like C++ references?
References: <b8c3hvsesjoumiboobml3nsnajtha99mp1@4ax.com> <mailman.1058129901.28248.python-list@python.org> <plk3hv0s1m2egf4s34jo6vjedk0q8r2mu9@4ax.com> <m365m6ul5c.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <mailman.1058145500.19181.python-list@python.org> <e464hvcq48q3240ecfcs6jqhqf616q7v1a@4ax.com> <3F1256C0.4BDC816F@alcyone.com> <vdl6hvckre5pms4n8bcn0nf1ma09ikse0f@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <bf1ocu$jeq$0@216.39.172.122>

On Tue, 15 Jul 2003 02:40:27 +0100, Stephen Horne <intentionally at blank.co.uk> wrote:

>On Mon, 14 Jul 2003 00:07:44 -0700, Erik Max Francis <max at alcyone.com>
>wrote:
>
>>Stephen Horne wrote:
>>
>>> Imagine, for instance, changing all assignments and other 'copying' to
>>> use a copy-on-write system. Then add a pointer type and a 'newcopyof'
>>> operator. And nick the C-style prefix '*' for dereferencing and add
>>> '&' as a 'make a pointer to this object' operator (absolutely NOT a
>>> physical memory address).
>>
>>The problem is that this misses the point that Python is not C++.  You
>>shouldn't try grafting syntaxes and approaches that make Python look
>>more like C++, you should be learning to use Python on its own merits.
>
>Not true.
>
>If you eliminate all violations of the idea of variables bound to
>values (basically the whole point of my thread), then mutable
>containers cannot achieve the same thing.
>
>If a copy-on-write scheme is added to Python, you'd get the following
>results from using mutable containers...
>
>>>> a = [1, 2, 3]
>>>> b = a
>>>> b[2] = 4
>>>> a
>[1, 2, 3]
>>>> b
>[1, 2, 4]
>
Yes, but it would be hugely inefficient for the case where, e.g., you are
modifying lines read from a 20MB log file. Imagine inducing a 20MB copy
every time you wanted to delete or modify a line. Now you have to invent
a way to program around what can be done very conveniently and efficiently
thanks to Python's semantics.

When you actually want a copy, just make one. There is syntax for that:

 >>> a = [1, 2, 3]
 >>> b = a[:]
 >>> b[2] = 4
 >>> a
 [1, 2, 3]
 >>> b
 [1, 2, 4]

>That is, mutability of the list object could be used to conveniently
>and efficiently rebind the variable b (in this case to the value [1,
>2, 4]) but that doesn't implicitly rebind the variable a which has
>nothing to do with this assignment. In the implementation, Python
it's not a variable in your sense, it's an alias.

>would create a copy of the object bound to [1, 2, 3] just in time to
>apply the change that object, without affecting the object that a is
>bound to.
>
>Efficient, and it implements the variable-bound-to-value concept.
Hugely inefficient, whether by brute force copying or by storing
complex everything-but-this-and-with-that-mod dumb-pointer kludges
to try to avoid bulk copying.

>
>Having done this, there would be a need for a way of indirectly
>referencing objects. You wouldn't be able to abuse containers for this
>goal. Pointers are the logical way to achieve the goal of indirect
>referencing - they don't need to be associated with a type of
>container which may have nothing to do with the problem, and they can
>be used to reference *any* type of object.
>
>>Or, to put it another way, if you want to program in C++, why not use
>>C++?
>
>I don't want to program in C++ (though sadly I have to).
>
>The concept of a pointer as an indirect way of referencing an object,
>however, is useful. It isn't just a C++ concept. It is a widely used
>concept from many languages which has gone out of fashion, mainly
>because of the low level detail of how pointers are implemented in
>languages such as C++ (ie simple store addresses).
Ok, and Python makes major use of "indirect way[s] of referencing an object."
Just not quite the way you have in mind ;-)

>
>I don't want the C++ bug-prone implementation of pointers. I want
>something which allows indirect referencing of objects in a logical
>and safe, high level way - and something which doesn't require the
>language to break the principle of variables bound to values.
>
Python doesn't break that. Python deals in aliases, not your "variables."

>The fact that pointers are generally useful can be seen in the regular
>abuse of single item lists to fake the functionality of pointers.
>
That is a valid point, but the solution is not wholesale change of semantics
followed by special syntax to allow us to do what we are already doing.

In a past post I suggested using := as an update operator, which would allow
you to write def foo(x): x:=123 and have foo(z) cause z to be updated with 123
-- if it was an updatable object. And updatable objects would have a __update__
method, so that x:=123 would be equivalent to x.__update__(123).
(I called it __update__ rather than e.g. __setval__ because it is not a value
replacement operation in general).

I've also floated the idea of being able to create what might be called bound properties.
I.e., something that looks like a plain x but acts like some_class_instance.x where x is
a property of that class. I.e., when you assign to it, it calls the setter function and
when you use it in an expression it calls the getter function. Something like you can
do (on the read side) with parameterless functions in Pascal (IIRC).

But that is a lot of change to be able to write x instead of o.x ;-)

Hm, if there were a name space where name bindings would work the way you want, would
that make you happy? I.e., where you could write

    ns.a = [1, 2, 3]
    ns.b = ns.a
    ns.b[2] = 4
    ns.a
    ns.b

Here's a start:

 >>> class NSHorne(object):
 ...     from cPickle import dumps, loads
 ...     def __setattr__(self, name, val):
 ...         object.__setattr__(self, name, self.loads(self.dumps(val)))
 ...
 >>> ns = NSHorne()
 >>> ns.a = [1, 2, 3]
 >>> ns.b = ns.a
 >>> ns.b[2] = 4
 >>> ns.a
 [1, 2, 3]
 >>> ns.b
 [1, 2, 4]

>If people are routinely faking the abstraction, maybe that is because
>it is a useful abstraction to have. Maybe it would be better to
>support it explicitly instead of forcing people to use tricks and
>hacks.

Or maybe it can be solved short of creating a whole new language ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From nagylzs at freemail.hu  Wed Jul  9 08:17:58 2003
From: nagylzs at freemail.hu (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Nagy_L=E1szl=F3_Zsolt?=)
Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 14:17:58 +0200
Subject: copy list, which way is best? /style
References: <begt35$4sd5m$1@fu-berlin.de> <3f0bfc4e$0$45185$65c69314@mercury.nildram.net>
Message-ID: <3F0C07F6.50606@freemail.hu>

>
>
>
>from copy import copy
>l2 = copy(l1)
>
>or
>
>from copy import deepcopy
>l2 = deepcopy(l1)
>
>I don't know what the difference is, if any, but I think this way is more readable.
>

The difference between shallow and deep copying is only relevant for 
compound objects (objects that contain other objects, like lists or 
class instances):

    * A shallow copy constructs a new compound object and then (to the
      extent possible) inserts references into it to the objects found
      in the original.

    * A deep copy constructs a new compound object and then,
      recursively, inserts copies into it of the objects found in the
      original.







From intentionally at blank.co.uk  Mon Jul 14 20:11:22 2003
From: intentionally at blank.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 01:11:22 +0100
Subject: anything like C++ references?
References: <sag3hv4vf884ed7ouu5cv8ofnopp9j1t12@4ax.com>, <000301c348c7$3c501980$21795418@dell1700> <iqm2hvs77lhe1m71v9b579070khbf0uv0a@4ax.com> <berqqd$ad5$1@panix3.panix.com> <brs2hv8edfv0d1fch9mha8otuulajnkh0g@4ax.com> <bes0ps$l6$1@panix3.panix.com> <qi13hv4s21i8mtr2e600jumm54hqs7tppu@4ax.com> <mailman.1058125699.26133.python-list@python.org> <mailman.1058162661.28864.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ttf6hvshpr57khktanma0b17ej6mcngon1@4ax.com>

On 14 Jul 2003 06:02:54 -0000, Moshe Zadka <m at moshez.org> wrote:

>On Sun, 13 Jul 2003, Stephen Horne <intentionally at blank.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> The problem is that you are confusing implementation with semantics.
>> The meanings of 'variable', 'value', 'assignment' etc are defined by
>> computer science.
>
>This is not just wrong, but as far as it is right, the semantics agree
>with Python's :)
>In computer science, the theoretical model one first learns is a turing
>machine. Turing machines have no variables or values, merely tapes. While
>I'm sure you can creatively translate the terms to turing machiens, this
>exercise seems fairly pointless. Ram machines are similar. More abstract
>models, like recursive functions, deal with integers only, so again you
>would need hard to associate terms with them [you can implement a list
>of integers with the p_1^n_1*....p_k^n_k, where p_1,...,p_k are distinct
>primes. I'm not completely sure how this would translate to Python, though :)]

Ever seen Euclids algorithm for the highest common factor?

Euclid was around somewhat before turing. Algorithms are a
mathematical concept. When you solve a quadratic equation by
completing the square, you are applying an algorithm for instance.

In maths, variables bind to values. Not to intermediate things that
implement or represent values. How Python implements its binding of
variables to values is its own business, but IMO if it merely binds
variables to objects - and does not correctly implement binding to
values using that mechanism - then it is behaving in a confusing and
error-prone way.

>However, computer science did have a minor notational revolution: Lisp.
>Lisp was originally invented as an abstract way to express computations
>in a more natural, and yet well-defined, way. The fact that lisp can be
>*implemented* was somewhat of a shock, but it turned to be a fairly useful
>language.

Funny. From what I recall of Churches lambda calculus, variables bind
to values. Changing the value bound to one variable does not change
the value bound to any other variable. After all, why would Church
worry about the details of implementation on a computer? He was a
mathematician. His ideas were developed in the 1930s, IIRC - they
weren't applied on computers until much later.

Lisp was created as a way of implementing Churches lambda calculus. In
doing so, some compromises were made due to the state of technology at
the time.

>[Note that in Lisp conses, for example, are actually mutable. However,
>many functions treat them as immutable objects. This is perfectly fine,
>and was a concious design decision in Lisp. Similarily, Python wouldn't
>*need* tuples: they can be implemented as lists. The immutability allows
>the implementation to play tricks with memory usage, though.]

No - mutability allows the implementation to play tricks with memory
usage. With immutables, Python binding of variables to objects
correctly implements binding of variables to values.




From martin at v.loewis.de  Wed Jul  9 01:32:16 2003
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-15?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 09 Jul 2003 07:32:16 +0200
Subject: Shared vs static link performance hit --and Windows?
References: <k7clgvoqjur1f10mosue3os74vv7nd34hi@4ax.com> <mailman.1057672018.10107.python-list@python.org> <6btlgvgjq48mbtmu097939dl1c1gmki0qd@4ax.com> <mailman.1057713433.5610.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m3he5wgt9b.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Andrew MacIntyre <andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au> writes:

> AFAIK, Windows & OS/2 don't really use the concept of PIC code for DLLs,
> as the DLLs get mapped into system address space rather than user address
> space, and all processes that access DLL code access the code at the same
> address.

Wrong, atleast for Win32. In Win32, there is no "system address
space"; each process has its separate address space.

Each DLL has a preferred load address, and it is linked to that
address. If the dynamic loader can, at run-time, link the DLL to that
address also, there won't be any relocations. If that address is
already in use, the dynamic loader choses a different address, and
they are not shared across address spaces anymore.

For Python standard DLLs and PYDs, PC/dllbase_nt.txt lists the
addresses that have been assigned for each DLL to avoid conflicts. For
custom extension DLLs, most likely, the linker default is used, which
will conflict with all other DLLs which don't use the /BASE linker
flag, either.

Regards,
Martin



From guettler at thomas-guettler.de  Thu Jul  3 10:29:11 2003
From: guettler at thomas-guettler.de (Thomas =?ISO-8859-15?Q?G=FCttler?=)
Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 16:29:11 +0200
Subject: Emacs + py-mode + tkinter problem
References: <WCWMa.18$Ha.16@nwrdny02.gnilink.net>
Message-ID: <be1ejn$5qov$1@ID-63505.news.dfncis.de>

Tom Locke wrote:

> Hi All,
> 
> I'm having trouble with the python shell within emacs. It's hanging when I
> use tkinter. Setup is:
> 
> Windows XP
> emacs 21.3
> py-mode 4.6
> 
> Recipe:
> From a python-mode buffer, launch the python shell (C-c !), then in the
> shell

Sorry, I don't know an answer since I only start
the interactive prompt from a terminal. Since I am quite happy
I would like to konw why you want the python interpreter in emacs?

 thomas




From nirina at mail.blueline.mg  Mon Jul 21 00:45:27 2003
From: nirina at mail.blueline.mg (Raseliarison nirinA)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 07:45:27 +0300
Subject: If stereo WAV file's both channels are identical, change format to mono for all files recursively
References: <00e701c34dd4$636d0340$f7a2383e@raseliar>
Message-ID: <007301c34f43$6c9df440$f3a2383e@raseliar>

the first attempt does not work well if the channels are not identical.
here is a revisited version.it works with wave files supported by wave
module

i have two questions:
- how to handle correctly the exceptions raised by wave, chunck and
other modules? is there a 'right way' to do this?
- Python seems to work fine when the '\' to pass a new line is missing.
when the backslash ought to be used to break a long line in several
one?

best regards

--
nirinA
--

#-----stereo2mono.py revisited----------
'''stereo2mono.py
convert recursively all stereo wave file to mono
if both channels are identical
http://www.faqts.com/knowledge_base/view.phtml/aid/12121/fid/538
usage : python stereo2mono.py wave_directory
'''

import wave, os, sys

FORMAT = {'11':'1b','12':'1h','21':'2b','22':'2h'}
# format for wave files encoded in 8 and 16 bits

SAMPLING = 128

class CompareError(Exception):
    def __init__(self, message):
        self.message = message

class Stereo2Mono:
    '''open the wave file and get its parameters
        compare the channels
        it will be done in two steps.
        samples are first compared,
        then if the samples are identical
        further comparison is performed
        and the mono wave file created
        '''
    def __init__(self, name):
        self.name = name
        self.w = wave.open(self.name)

    def isStereo(self):
        if self.w.getnchannels() == 2:
            return 1
        else:
            return 0

    def format_in(self):
        self.fmt = ''.join((str(self.w.getnchannels()),
                            str(self.w.getsampwidth())))
        return FORMAT.get(self.fmt)

    def format_out(self):
        self.fmt = ''.join(('1',
                            str(self.w.getsampwidth())))
        return FORMAT.get(self.fmt)

    def Parameters(self):
        return self.w.getparams()

    def Compare(self, amplitude):
        if amplitude[0] == amplitude[1]:
            return 1
        else:
            return 0

    def CompareSampling(self):
        for i in range(1, self.Parameters()[3],SAMPLING):
            if self.Compare(wave.struct.unpack(
                self.format_in(),self.w.readframes(1))):
                pass
            else:
                raise CompareError('Test fail at %i!'%i)

    def CompareAndSave(self):
        '''Compare all and save to mono'''
        self.w.rewind()
        self.chars = '/-\\|'
        self.Save = wave.open(self.name.split('.')[0]+
                              '-mono'+'.wav','w')
        self.newparams = (1,
                     self.Parameters()[1],
                     self.Parameters()[2],
                     self.Parameters()[3],
                     self.Parameters()[4],
                     self.Parameters()[5])

        self.Save.setparams(self.newparams)

        for i in range(1, self.Parameters()[3]+1):
            self.UnPack = wave.struct.unpack(
                self.format_in(), self.w.readframes(1))
            if self.Compare(self.UnPack) == 1:
                self.Save.writeframes(wave.struct.pack(
                    self.format_out(), self.UnPack[0]))
                sys.stdout.write(chr(13))
                sys.stdout.write('%s %i/%i     ' % (
                    self.chars[i % 4], i, self.Parameters()[3]))
                sys.stdout.flush()
            else:
                raise CompareError('save fail at %i!'%i)

        self.w.close()
        self.Save.close()

def main():
    directory = sys.argv[1]
    os.chdir(directory)

    for name in os.listdir('.'):
        if name.lower().endswith('.wav'):
            try:
                print name
                w = Stereo2Mono(name)
                if w.isStereo():
                    try:
                        w.CompareSampling()
                    except CompareError, e:
                        print 'channel not identical;', e.message
                    else:
                        w.CompareAndSave()
                        print 'Done'
                else:
                    print '%s already in mono'%name
            except wave.Error:
                print 'this wave file is not supported'
                print sys.exc_info()[1]
        else:
            pass

if __name__ == '__main__':
    main()

#nirinA








From lamar_air at hotmail.com  Tue Jul 15 11:43:02 2003
From: lamar_air at hotmail.com (lamar_air)
Date: 15 Jul 2003 08:43:02 -0700
Subject: delete file
References: <2c6431ab.0307100711.780a65ad@posting.google.com> <mailman.1057851734.20147.python-list@python.org> <QugPa.26879$FN3.2233696@news.ono.com> <3F0D962E.23DA9F59@engcorp.com> <2c6431ab.0307110529.7a336f30@posting.google.com> <3F0EBFED.BB283660@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <2c6431ab.0307150743.7dd52f3f@posting.google.com>

Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message news:<3F0EBFED.BB283660 at engcorp.com>...
> lamar_air wrote:
> > 
> > Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message news:<3F0D962E.23DA9F59 at engcorp.com>...
> > > "Bartolom? Sintes Marco" wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I have a program that unzip some zip files. After unzipping them,
> > > > I want to delete the zip files with os.remove, but I get this error:
> > > > OSError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: ....
> > >
> > > Close the files properly after unzipping them, perhaps?  If that
> > > doesn't help, please specify operating system, and give details
> > > on how you are unzipping.  Is it using Python's zipfile module,
> > > or some other method, and exactly how do you do it?
> > 
> > I want to be able to delete a file on my C: drive through my python
> > script.  My script writes a file. So i want to delete the file if it
> > already exists then write it.  What's the best way to do this?
> 
> Your question is still not clear, if it's the same as the original
> question.  Please read http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
> for assistance in formulating your questions a little better.
> 
> The simplest answer is that if *you* are creating the files, you
> just open them with "w" mode (as in "f = open('filename', 'w')")
> and it will automatically truncate the file if it already exists.
> 
> Hoping that helps,
> -Peter

I am using this remove method and it works well as long as the file is
there
os.remove("C:\Inetpub\wwwroot\Cgi-bin\output.txt")
If the file doesn't exist then i get an error that the file is not
found.  I want to stay away from using
f2=open('C:\Inetpub\wwwroot\Cgi-bin\output.txt', 'w') so how can i
check if the file exists first?



From kent at NOSPAMspringfed.com  Sat Jul 19 18:02:41 2003
From: kent at NOSPAMspringfed.com (Kent Tenney)
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 17:02:41 -0500
Subject: distutils.core not in Debian python2.2 package
Message-ID: <pfjSa.730$zu1.8428@reggie.win.bright.net>

Howdy,

I did;
# apt-get install python2.2

# python
Python 2.2.1
...
 >>>

then checked docutils out of CVS
and did;

docutils# python ./setup.py install

ImportError: No module named distutils.core

How do I install distutils?

Thanks,
Kent




From paul at boddie.net  Fri Jul 11 04:57:39 2003
From: paul at boddie.net (Paul Boddie)
Date: 11 Jul 2003 01:57:39 -0700
Subject: Using  xml.xpath question.
References: <de5c7cc0.0307101347.2c707bf8@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <23891c90.0307110057.bbe91e3@posting.google.com>

bvelkur at yahoo.com (0wl) wrote in message news:<de5c7cc0.0307101347.2c707bf8 at posting.google.com>...
> Hi,
> 
> I am trying to get the value of child from  
> 
> xmlstr = """<p:root xmlns:p="http://tempuri.org/string"><p:child
> DataType="String">Hellpppp</p:child></p:root>"""
> 
> using 
> doc=parseString(xmlstr)
> nodeList = xml.xpath.Evaluate("/p:root/p:child/text()", doc)
>
> and am getting the following exception:
> 
> xml.xpath.RuntimeException: Undefined namespace prefix: "p".

The problem is that the XPath query engine doesn't know what the
prefix "p" is, and it won't automatically deduce it from your XML
document. In other words, the prefixes used in your query are
effectively independent from those used in your document, although
this does give you the luxury of changing either your query or your
document without having to go through the other adjusting the prefixes
to match.

Try this:

>>> c = xml.xpath.Context.Context(doc)
>>> c.setNamespaces({"p" : "http://tempuri.org/string"})

This makes a context and then adds the definition of the prefix for
the XPath query engine. I think xml.xpath.CreateContext(doc) may be
more appropriate, but I always use the above style. Also, you could
probably specify the prefix/namespace definitions in the Context
constructor, but this is just as easy.

>>> e = xml.xpath.Compile("/p:root/p:child/text()")

I compile the expression in order to allow the context to be used. We
need a context because there apparently isn't any way of specifying
the prefix/namespace definitions directly in an Evaluate call.
Therefore, we have to set up a context first to contain those
definitions.

>>> e.evaluate(c)
[<DOM Text node "Hellpppp">]

Yes, it works! ;-)

Paul



From johnroth at ameritech.net  Tue Jul  1 16:03:17 2003
From: johnroth at ameritech.net (John Roth)
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 16:03:17 -0400
Subject: function overloading
References: <pan.2003.07.01.19.42.06.202399@webone.com.au>
Message-ID: <vg3q64c9e01h13@news.supernews.com>

"Simon Burton" <simonb at webone.com.au> wrote in message
news:pan.2003.07.01.19.42.06.202399 at webone.com.au...
>
> I just wrote the following rediculous code.
> What do people do when they need to overload like this?
>
> Simon.
>
>
>
> ######################################################
> # PIL stuff
>
> class Im:
>   def __init__(self,x,xx=None):
>     if xx is not None:
>       w,h = x,xx
>       im = Image.new("I",(w,h))
>     elif type(x)==str:
>       filename = x
>       im = Image.open(filename)
>     else:
>       im = x
>     self.im = im
>

I'd subclass it. I see three classes here:

class Image:
    def __init__(self, oldImage)

class NewImage(Image):
    def __init__(self, height, width):

class ImageFromDisk(Image):
    def __init__(self, fileName):

The subclasses only override the __init__ method
of the base class.

An alternate method of dealing with the situation
is to do lazy initialization. In other words, don't provide
any parameters on the construction, and provide three
different methods for initializing the resulting object.

John Roth





From skip at pobox.com  Fri Jul 25 12:07:42 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 11:07:42 -0500
Subject: Python 2.3c2
In-Reply-To: <fb91dbec.0307242153.74aacbc2@posting.google.com>
References: <fb91dbec.0307242153.74aacbc2@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <16161.21966.867278.657560@montanaro.dyndns.org>

>>>>> "Doug" == the rev dharma roadkill <doug.hendricks at tnzi.com> writes:

    Doug> Just grabbed and tried it on Tru64 5.1A (hp/compaq alpha ES40):
    Doug> Looks good:
    Doug> make test gives:
    Doug> ............
    Doug> 221 tests OK.
    Doug> 34 tests skipped:
    Doug>     test_aepack test_al test_audioop test_bsddb test_bsddb3 test_bz2
    Doug>     test_cd test_cl test_curses test_dl test_email_codecs test_gdbm
    Doug>     test_gl test_imageop test_imgfile test_linuxaudiodev test_locale
    Doug>     test_macfs test_macostools test_mpz test_nis test_normalization
    Doug>     test_ossaudiodev test_pep277 test_plistlib test_rgbimg
    Doug>     test_scriptpackages test_socket_ssl test_socketserver
    Doug>     test_sunaudiodev test_timeout test_urllibnet test_winreg
    Doug>     test_winsound
    Doug> Ask someone to teach regrtest.py about which tests are
    Doug> expected to get skipped on osf1V5.

Doug,

Can you confirm that you anticipate those skips on osf1V5?  If so, I'll
the appropriate entry in regrtest.py.

Also, assuming you're connected to a network, can you try:

    ./python Lib/test/regrtest.py -unetwork

where you executed make test before?

Thanks,

Skip




From theller at python.net  Tue Jul 29 05:13:46 2003
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 11:13:46 +0200
Subject: Cannot register dll created using "py2exe --com-dll"
References: <57de9986.0307290052.688e54c5@posting.google.com> <bg5d1v$ca5$1@arachne.labyrinth.net.au>
Message-ID: <n0exelv9.fsf@python.net>

Mark Hammond <mhammond at skippinet.com.au> writes:

> Giles Brown wrote:
>> I'm feeling quite dumb this morning.
>> I'm trying to build a COM server DLL using py2exe and it ain't
>> working.
>

Does the sample server work for you? I have tested it with 2.2.2 and
2.3rc2, and win32all build 154 and 155.

> Not too surprising seeing as it was checked in just days ago :)
>
>> Command line for registering dll:
>> regsvr32 c:\pvcs\madeupname\model\dist\application.dll
>> Result when I try to register dll:
>> """DllRegisterServer in c:\pvcs\madeupname\model\dist\application.dll failed.
>> Return code was: 0x80040201
>> """
>
> This generally just means that there was a Python exception.  As
> regsvr is a GUI app, the exception is lost.  You may like to add
> "import win32traceutil" at the top of your script (see
> win32traceutil.py for details) - or if that fails, at the top of
> boot_com_servers.py.
>
>> I have tried an exe server, but this does not register either.
>
> Try an EXE server build with the console flag set.  This should allow
> you to see the exception without redirecting error output.
>
>> Also does anyone know what argument to use to get py2exe to build something
>> other than "application.[dll/exe]".  I thought 'output_base' as an argument
>> to setup() would do it, but no joy.
>
> Can't recall - sorry.

There is no such flag. I simply forgot to remove the commented-out
'output_base' option from the sample file.

Thomas



From ianb at colorstudy.com  Thu Jul 31 15:16:46 2003
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: 31 Jul 2003 14:16:46 -0500
Subject: Python's biggest compromises
In-Reply-To: <899f842.0307310555.56134f71@posting.google.com>
References: <899f842.0307310555.56134f71@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1059679006.12753.337.camel@lothlorien>

On Thu, 2003-07-31 at 08:55, Anthony_Barker wrote:
> The three that come to my mind are significant whitespace, dynamic
> typing, and that it is interpreted - not compiled. These three put
> python under fire and cause some large projects to move off python or
> relegate it to prototyping.

I think these are valid as "compromises", not to be confused with
flaws.  These are all explicit choices, and ones for which the original
justifications remain valid.  A lot of stuff in Basic is simply flaws,
or based on justifications that no longer apply to today's programming
world.


Anyway, I might add mine: the nature of modules as executed code is a
compromise.  That is, a module isn't a declaration, it's a program to be
executed in its own namespace.  When you import a module, you are
executing the module then looking at the namespace.

There are some advantages to this, particularly in the transparency of
the implementation -- things don't always work the way you might want
(e.g., circular imports), but it's usually not that hard to understand
why (and often the way you want things to work has nasty gotchas that
you wouldn't have thought of).  It also opens up a lot of possibilities
for dynamicism in class and function declaration, like doing this in the
top level:

if something:
    def func(x): ...
else:
    def func(x): ...

But it's a compromise, because it makes things more difficult as well. 
It's a *big* problem in any long-running process, where you may want to
modify code underlying the system without rebuilding the entire state. 
Classes aren't declared, they are simply constructed, so by reloading a
module all the persistent instances still exist and refer to the defunct
class.  You can modify classes at runtime, but this is different from
simply rerunning the class definition.  (A clever metaclass *could* make
those equivalent, though... hmmm...)

A related problem is that Python objects generally can accept any
instance variable names, and names are not declared anywhere.  Again,
this makes it difficult to deal with long-lived objects.  If you change
the class so that all instances get a new attribute, old objects won't
be updated.  I'm thinking about both of these things in terms of
Smalltalk, where they make tools possible that really add to the ease of
developing in its environment.

Not that I don't like the fun tricks Python lets you do.  Prototype-like
programming (as in Self) is very accessible in Python, and classes are
only a suggestion not a dominant concept.  So, it's a compromise.

There are lots and lots of compromises in Python -- every aspect has
pluses and minuses to it.  Personally I like whitespace sensitivity well
enough, but in the larger sense I think it probably was the wrong choice
-- but that's based on how I weigh various benefits and problems, and
other people will validly weigh them differently.  

  Ian






From alienoid at is.lg.ua  Wed Jul 16 03:39:33 2003
From: alienoid at is.lg.ua (Ruslan Spivak)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 10:39:33 +0300
Subject: hex check
Message-ID: <3F150135.8030708@is.lg.ua>

Hello.

Does anybody have a hint how to check if input hex number is in correct 
hex format?

Thanks in advance.

Best regards,
Ruslan





From martin at v.loewis.de  Thu Jul 17 19:14:30 2003
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 01:14:30 +0200
Subject: A challenge to the ASCII proponents.
References: <mailman.1058278343.23104.python-list@python.org> <bf167a$pvt$1@panix2.panix.com> <ufzl7rdno.fsf@online.no> <3F142A58.80426AA4@hotmail.com> <2259b0e2.0307161620.4a9353f1@posting.google.com> <Xns93BB246FDDBCFJanC@213.118.75.80> <3F168011.3AEB3EFC@hotmail.com> <3F172442.2040907@v.loewis.de> <3f172794$0$49102$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <3F172DD6.5050602@v.loewis.de>

Irmen de Jong wrote:

> Exactly, it renders perfectly okay for me (mozilla 1.4).
> I wonder one thing: how did you type it in?

The Greek one, I copied from the XML file that Alan sent:
I did as he said. Save file to disk, open it in the browser.
I then copied the characters from one browser window to another.

For the umlauts, I just pressed the relevant characters on
my German keyboard.

For the Arabic, I copied some string from a web page
(the demo page of worldnames.net). Notice that this is
right-to-left, so don't be surprised if your cursor is
on the left end of the text at the end of pasting. Just
pressing the closing parenthesis will switch back to
left-to-right mode.

Regards,
Martin







From mis6 at pitt.edu  Sun Jul 20 11:21:52 2003
From: mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato)
Date: 20 Jul 2003 08:21:52 -0700
Subject: feature request: a better str.endswith
References: <2259b0e2.0307180401.5dae02f2@posting.google.com> <mailman.1058530829.7072.python-list@python.org> <3f17f883$0$49107$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl> <2259b0e2.0307190529.57338b3f@posting.google.com> <NpkSa.16049$7O.14695@nwrdny01.gnilink.net>
Message-ID: <2259b0e2.0307200721.16ef2ea1@posting.google.com>

Oops! My mistake, I forgot the islice; it should be

the=lambda pred,seq: list(itertools.islice(itertools.ifilter(pred,seq),0,1))

in such a way that we exit at the first hit, otherwise one could just use
the standard "filter". 

not-yet-good-enough-with-itertools-but-improving-ly your's

          Michele



From sismex01 at hebmex.com  Tue Jul  1 17:19:07 2003
From: sismex01 at hebmex.com (sismex01 at hebmex.com)
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 16:19:07 -0500 
Subject: Suggesting for overloading the assign operator
Message-ID: <F7DB8D13DB61D511B6FF00B0D0F0623305457595@mail.hebmex.com>

> From: rimbalaya at yahoo.com [mailto:rimbalaya at yahoo.com] 
> Sent: Martes, 01 de Julio de 2003 12:07 p.m.
> 
> Well, what about the idea of providing another statement, the one I
> proposed in the original post?
> 
> '=' statement assigns type and value
> ':=' statement assigns value only
> 
> Rim
>

Probably the reason most prople on this list don't quite
like these threads is that there's no *need* for this
"value-assignment" operation.

For one, how would you implement it for immutable data
types?

This ":=" statement you're talking about already exists
for lists, you can do something like:

A[:] = some_other_list

Why?  Because you're assigning to a slice of A (which happens
to be the whole list) the contents of the second list.

But, what about strings, for example?  Or ints?  Or longs,
floats, complexes?  These data types are not mutable,
an int object like, for example, 123, cannot change it's
value to some other value, like 124.  It's created
with that value and lives like that until destroyed,
or the end of the program.  Same goes for all those
other immutable types mentioned above.

Why would you need such an operation?

Is there some unsurmountable programming problem that cannot
be solved except by such a vile hack as an overloadable
assignment operator?  The existance of huge software
projects already done in python (such as Zone, Yahoo,
and others) tells me that the language really doesn't
need it.

Another question would be, why not tell us what
you're trying to do (which most probably looks like
a C++ algorith or something like that) and how can
we help you turn it into a Python algorithm?

Programming C++ in Python is difficult.

-gustavo
Advertencia:La informacion contenida en este mensaje es confidencial y
restringida, por lo tanto esta destinada unicamente para el uso de la
persona arriba indicada, se le notifica que esta prohibida la difusion de
este mensaje. Si ha recibido este mensaje por error, o si hay problemas en
la transmision, favor de comunicarse con el remitente. Gracias.




From Mike at kordik.net  Fri Jul  4 23:41:12 2003
From: Mike at kordik.net (Mike)
Date: Sat, 05 Jul 2003 03:41:12 GMT
Subject: RTS/CTS and DTR/DTS control
References: <pan.2003.07.04.19.37.02.310028@kordik.net> <pan.2003.07.04.23.44.30.894302@kordik.net> <3F060F8D.94E47DCD@engcorp.com> <pan.2003.07.05.02.34.17.509445@kordik.net> <3F064661.33614890@engcorp.com> <3F0646DE.6344484E@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2003.07.05.04.50.27.165839@kordik.net>

WOW! Thanks!

I do not exactly remember the timing either but I did it in Java so the
timing can't be too tight. I got the X10 stuff last year and started to
play with it in Java. I got busy with other things... well you know how it
goes. Just this year I started using Linux and am looking
for something fun, but useful, to do in Linux. I thought Python would be
interesting to learn.

I will look up the site you gave me.

Again, thanks for the posts. You have been most helpful!

I noticed that there are some X10 stuff already out there but I thought it
would be fun to make my own. :-)

Mike

On Fri, 04 Jul 2003 23:32:46 -0400, Peter Hansen wrote:

> Peter Hansen wrote:
>> 
>> A quick search again with Google using TIOCMSET and TIOCM_CTS and a
>> bunch of others finally led to this, which might be the best yet, and
>> includes some constant definitions that might let you get something
>> working, if this doesn't directly solve your problem:
>> 
>> http://sparc.dnsalias.net/Python_stuff/PosixSerial.py
> 
> Look at the main site... you might find something else of interest
> there. <wink>
> 
> -Peter



From amk at amk.ca  Tue Jul 15 21:04:02 2003
From: amk at amk.ca (A.M. Kuchling)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 20:04:02 -0500
Subject: Curses module.
References: <iJ%Qa.1892$ym.488598@news20.bellglobal.com>
Message-ID: <Ieicna_1c8ofOYmiRTvUqQ@speakeasy.net>

On Tue, 15 Jul 2003 19:03:33 -0400, 
	Alex <bogus at antispam.com> wrote:
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>    File "./curses3.py", line 15, in ?
>      curses.wrapper(newWindow())
> AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'wrapper'

Do you have a ./curses.py in the same directory as curses3.py?
You might be importing your module instead of the standard library
with that name.  Try running python with the -v switch to confirm this.

--amk



From alanmk at hotmail.com  Thu Jul 17 10:24:58 2003
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 15:24:58 +0100
Subject: list() coercion
References: <mailman.1058449406.8072.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3F16B1BA.97793556@hotmail.com>

Bob Gailer wrote:

> I have just read the docs 2.2.5 Iterator Types. Unfortunately this page
> seems to be written for someone who already understands the page. Is
> there any other explanation or examples?

Try A. M. Kuchling's "What's new in Python".

http://www.python.org/doc/2.2.1/whatsnew/node4.html

And if you want to look under the covers

http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0234.html

HTH,

-- 
alan kennedy
-----------------------------------------------------
check http headers here: http://xhaus.com/headers
email alan:              http://xhaus.com/mailto/alan



From ianb at colorstudy.com  Tue Jul  8 04:23:36 2003
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: 08 Jul 2003 03:23:36 -0500
Subject: Image Streaming
In-Reply-To: <381a2b17.0307072326.211c21b5@posting.google.com>
References: <381a2b17.0307072326.211c21b5@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1057652616.5348.390.camel@lothlorien>

On Tue, 2003-07-08 at 02:26, Steffen Brodowski wrote:
> Hello everyone,
> 
> since one week, I'm programming with python. Its a realy interesting
> tool. I wrote a script for generating barcodes in jpg-format.
> Everything is ok, but my function "CreateBarcode" should write the jpg
> data into an outstream. All barcodes will be generate online, without
> saving the jpgs on harddisk.
> 
> Can you give me a tip witch objects I need and how to put the jpg into
> an outgoing stream?
> 
> import Image, ImageDraw
> def CreateBarcode(SourceString,Linewidth,WriteText):
>     blablabla
>     ...
>     NewImage = Image.new("L",NewSize,Backcolor)
>     ImgDraw = ImageDraw.Draw(NewImage)
>     ....
> 
>     #How to put the image into an stream?

have that function return the image object.  Then, assuming you are
doing this in CGI (easily adapted if not), do something like (untested):

import sys
image = CreateBarCode(...)
print 'Content-type: image/jpeg\n'
image.save(sys.stdout, 'JPEG')

  Ian






From jerf at jerf.org  Wed Jul  2 21:14:44 2003
From: jerf at jerf.org (Jeremy Bowers)
Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 01:14:44 GMT
Subject: When is unit-testing bad? [was: Re: does lack of type...]
References: <3EEE1210.3004AB45@engcorp.com> <878ys06tcv.fsf_-_@pobox.com> <vf11j7l3f0ku52@news.supernews.com> <87of0pno5s.fsf@titan.staselog.com> <vg40uajdqo3ac4@corp.supernews.com> <bdunoh$1pms$1@biggoron.nerim.net>
Message-ID: <pan.2003.07.02.21.14.36.896580@jerf.org>

On Wed, 02 Jul 2003 15:21:45 +0200, Aur?lien G?ron wrote:
> I'd be interested to know about
> projects where they automate unit tests for GUIs, but I suspect it would be
> just as cumbersome.

I'm doing one right now. It's designed from the ground up by me, so it's
testable. It almost has to be, since it's fairly complicated and Needs To
Work.

For the record, I've found Tkinter does *great* with this, because you can
drive the GUI without ever actually starting the event loop. It doesn't
seem perfect but largely works, much better then it has any right to.

wxPython doesn't work at all without an event loop, so I never did get it
tested, which has contributed to me dropping it. ;-) (I'm gonna guess that
never entered into anybody's head when they were designing toolkits...)

> In all those cases, I much prefer having a human being go out and do the
> unit tests manually.

The thing is, they won't. We've got about 50 years of collective
experience backing that up.



From andrew-pythonlist at puzzling.org  Wed Jul  2 05:48:33 2003
From: andrew-pythonlist at puzzling.org (Andrew Bennetts)
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 19:48:33 +1000
Subject: Good code patterns in Python
In-Reply-To: <3f027b11$0$97204$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
References: <mailman.1057079642.5798.python-list@python.org> <3f027b11$0$97204$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
Message-ID: <20030702094833.GD21059@frobozz>

On Wed, Jul 02, 2003 at 08:28:28AM +0200, Max M wrote:
[...]
> 
> if some_condition:
>     some_name = some_value
> else:
>     if some_exotic_condition:
>         some_name = third_value
>     else:
>         some_name = other_value
> 
> 
> It would have been a simpler and less error prone procedure to change 
> the code if it it had used the first form.
> 
> 
> some_name = other_value
> if some_condition:
>     some_name = some_value
> else:
>     if some_exotic_condition:
>         some_name = third_value

For this specific example, I think I'd prefer:

if some_condition:
    some_name = some_value
elif some_exotic_condition:
    some_name = third_value
else:
    some_name = other_value

Regardless, I always feel uneasy about:

x = some_val
if cond:
    x = special_val

I think it's the reassignment of 'x' here that bugs me -- conceptually, this
code is setting x to a value depending on a certain condition, and so having
to mentally trace through "it's set to val -- oh, no, now it isn't" is an
unwelcome distraction, whereas:

if cond:
    x = special_val
else:
    x = some_val

can be "read" more-or-less directly into English: "if the condition is true,
then 'x' is set to 'special_val'; otherwise, 'x' is set to 'some_val'".
Saying "'x' is set to 'some_val'.  Now, if some condition is true, 'x' is
set to 'special_val'" is counter-intuitive to my way of thinking.

That said, I can readily recognise both idioms (despite having a slight
preference for one form), so it's really a non-issue... 

it's-all-fun-and-games-until-someone-mentions-ternary-operators-ly yrs, Andrew.





From rick_hunter357 at hotmail.com  Mon Jul 28 20:44:13 2003
From: rick_hunter357 at hotmail.com (Rick)
Date: 28 Jul 2003 17:44:13 -0700
Subject: Papers on Python
Message-ID: <8b36138c.0307281644.f6569ea@posting.google.com>

I have been given an assignment to collect 5 papers on Python and
write a report on each of the papers. I went ahead and researched and
collected 9 papers; all from the internet with most of them coming
from the International Python Conference.

But then I got thinking. What are the 5 (or 6 or 7 or 10) most seminal
papers in the history of Python in the opinion of members of this
newgroups?

I might replace all or some of my papers from those suggested by the
members on this newsgroup.

-RH
PS. Before someone starts on how college kids are using the internet
(or the help available on the 'net) to do the work for them, No I am
not cheating. The actual assignment is to select 9 papers that you
find interesting and write a report on each of them. I already have my
9 papers selected. Now I want to know if I would like to replace some
from my collection.



From norproaj at yahoo.com  Tue Jul  8 17:22:43 2003
From: norproaj at yahoo.com (Dianne Combs)
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 14:22:43 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Advocate Media/The Northeast Progressive Advocate Journal/San Francisco Bay
Message-ID: <20030708212243.40985.qmail@web60001.mail.yahoo.com>

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From andreas.kuntzagk at mdc-berlin.de  Wed Jul  9 07:07:39 2003
From: andreas.kuntzagk at mdc-berlin.de (Andreas Kuntzagk)
Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 13:07:39 +0200
Subject: copy list, which way is best? /style
Message-ID: <begt35$4sd5m$1@fu-berlin.de>

Hi,

There are three ways to (shallow)copy a list l I'm aware of:

>>> l2=list(l)
>>> l2=l[:]
>>> l2.copy.copy(l)

Are there any differences? Are there more (reasonable) ways?
I think the first is the most pythonic, second looks more like this other
p-language and third requires an import, so I would prefer the first. 
Do you agree?

Andreas



From bignose-hates-spam at and-benfinney-does-too.id.au  Wed Jul 23 23:12:57 2003
From: bignose-hates-spam at and-benfinney-does-too.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: 24 Jul 2003 13:02:57 +0950
Subject: file.close()
References: <edITa.131868$Ph3.17333@sccrnsc04> <3F1F5297.15D768EF@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <slrnbhukr8.13c.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>

On Wed, 23 Jul 2003 20:29:27 -0700, Erik Max Francis wrote:
> Bryan wrote:
>> is what i'm doing is overkill?
> 
> Use of external resources -- which should be released as soon as
> you're done with them -- are best done in try/finally clauses.

It seems that nesting the 'try' clauses doesn't scale well.  What if
fifty files are opened?  Must the nesting level of the 'try' clauses be
fifty also, to close them promptly?

-- 
 \      "God forbid that any book should be banned. The practice is as |
  `\               indefensible as infanticide."  -- Dame Rebecca West |
_o__)                                                                  |
http://bignose.squidly.org/ 9CFE12B0 791A4267 887F520C B7AC2E51 BD41714B



From lol at lolmcNOSPAM.com  Fri Jul  4 16:58:51 2003
From: lol at lolmcNOSPAM.com (Rogue 9)
Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 21:58:51 +0100
Subject: Import statement help required by newbie please
Message-ID: <3f05ea76@shknews01>

Hi All,
I have a small problem in a program I'm developing and could do with some
guidance as to how I resolve it.
The hierachy of my program is as follows:

1)The toplevel package is called oop_lb 2)Beneath oop_lb are 3 packages -
analysis,process and tests

				oop_lb
				   |
				   |
	-------------------------------------------------------
	|			   |			      |
    analysis                    process                     tests


I am using the very excellent unittest module to help me to create a
program that is as bug free as I can make it and the tests are as you cn
guess in the tests package mentioned above. I have developed several
modules which reside in the process package and succesfully created tests
in the tests package which ensure the code does what I intended.When I
moved on to the analysis package however,things went a bit wonky as the
modules in this package called classes which resided in the process
package and when using the import statements to make them available I
found that either I could get the oop_lb module to run with one set of
import statements but the tests I wrote would not recognise the modules
from process in the import statements and produced the following type of
error:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "CalculateMedianTest.py", line 14, in ?
    import oop_lb.analysis.CalculateMedian
  File "/home/lol/disk/python/lotto/oop_lb/analysis/CalculateMedian.py",
  line 14, in ?
    from process import GetDraw
ImportError: No module named process

This occurs with the following import statement in the CalculateMedian.py
module

from process import GetDraw

If I change this to
import oop_lb.process.GetDraw

then the test program will work but the oop_lb.py file fails with the
following error

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "oop_lb.py", line 21, in ?
    from analysis import CalculateMedian # import class definition from
    file
  File "/home/lol/disk/python/lotto/oop_lb/analysis/CalculateMedian.py",
  line 13, in ?
    import oop_lb.process.GetDraw
  File "/home/lol/disk/python/lotto/oop_lb/oop_lb.py", line 21, in ?
    from analysis import CalculateMedian # import class definition from
    file
ImportError: cannot import name CalculateMedian

So.....my problem is that I can't seem to find the proper way to import
the modules to satisfy both the testing modules in the oop_lb.tests
package and also allow oop_lb.py to run without import errors. I apologise
for the length of the post and any ambiguities I may not have managed to
clear up whilst proff reading this before posting.

Thanks,Lol

-- 
Remove NOSPAM from my email address to use it,please.




From akineko at pacbell.net  Tue Jul  8 00:50:49 2003
From: akineko at pacbell.net (Aki Niimura)
Date: 7 Jul 2003 21:50:49 -0700
Subject: Accessing Web site contents from a Python script (with use of Cookie)
Message-ID: <b714b8de.0307072050.417d5321@posting.google.com>

Hello everyone,

I have been trying to write a Python script to access a Web site.

I'm currently having a problem completing my script because the contents 
I would like to access in the Web site is a dynamic content and it is 
generated based on the Cookie contents which are set in another page.

url-a  (setting Cookies)
url-b  (dynamic content based on the Cookie value)

I'm using httplib.HTTPConnection() to first access the url-a to get other info
(and Cookies in header). Then my script accesses the url-b but it doesn't 
work as no Cookie info is returned when the url-b is being accessed.

The Cookie values vary time to time such that the script must obtain them
from the url-a. Also, no expiration is set in the Cookies such that they are
supposed to live only in browser not in Cookie files.

Is there any way to handle the situation mentioned above?

Any comments, any hints are highly appreciated.

Best regards,
Aki Niimura



From skip at pobox.com  Tue Jul  8 10:46:24 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 09:46:24 -0500
Subject: Python is a gem ,another successful day ....
In-Reply-To: <yyyof056rzs.fsf@adams.patriot.net>
References: <ECUNa.628$kY2.37591@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au>
        <am0Oa.461715$3n5.245818@news2.central.cox.net>
        <b16e4ef7.0307071024.179875e8@posting.google.com>
        <yyyof056rzs.fsf@adams.patriot.net>
Message-ID: <16138.55616.369570.36950@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    Nick>   * Who makes Python?  A lot of the culture is still mired in the
    Nick>     idea that a corporate entity is required for a product to be
    Nick>     fully supported, or viable in the long term.  I like to remind
    Nick>     them how well Sun's stewardship has "served" the Java
    Nick>     community, but I need more than negative counterexamples.

Is Apache used by your organization?

    Nick>   * Who provides training?  I mean no disrespect to my coworkers,
    Nick>     and present company is of course excluded, but a lot of the
    Nick>     federal workforce has no incentive to learn on their
    Nick>     own. Unless a training course is provided, with certifications
    Nick>     and free tote bags, there is very little motivation for people
    Nick>     to learn new technology.

There are people (like Mark Lutz and Wesley Chun) and larger organizations
(perhaps ActiveState?) who do Python training.

    Nick>   * How do we deploy Python?  Until we upgrade all the systems
    Nick>     here to recent versions of Redhat Linux (joke!), installing a
    Nick>     Python environment is an extra step.  I can point out that
    Nick>     finding an appropriate JRE is a worse nightmare, but as above,
    Nick>     I need more than negative counterexamples.

It should be a small extra step.  If you can't use Sean Reifschneider's RPMs
directly, you can probably build RPMs for your version of RH Linux using his
spec files, then install that across your organization.  Similarly, for
Windows users the installer is easily run.

Skip





From tomas at fancy.org  Sat Jul 12 17:00:49 2003
From: tomas at fancy.org (Tom Plunket)
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 14:00:49 -0700
Subject: any such thing as list interleaving?
Message-ID: <hat0hv49g0e6bf3770c6df2cukknd5vak2@4ax.com>

I find myself often doing the following sort of thing (sorry for
lack of whitespace, I don't want the line to break):

for entry, index in map(lambda e,i:(e,i),aList,range(len(aList)):
   # ...

This definitely seems like a roundabout way to loop through
parallel lists together.  Is this map routine truly the easiest/
best/most straight-forward way to do a for loop through parallel
lists, if I feel that the Python anti-idom of:

for index in range(len(myList)):
   entry = aList(index)
   anotherEntry = anotherList(index)
   # ...

???

This also brings up a similar problem for me when iterating over
dictionaries:

for key in myDict:
   value = myDict[key]
   # ...

This seems a pretty sloppy way to go about it, imo.  There must
be something more in the Python spirit!  :)

Thanks.

-tom!



From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Mon Jul  7 12:12:51 2003
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 11:12:51 -0500
Subject: PDF Parser?
In-Reply-To: <33803989.0307062318.3695d11@posting.google.com> (tebeka@cs.bgu.ac.il's
 message of "7 Jul 2003 00:18:48 -0700")
References: <33803989.0307062318.3695d11@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <m2d6gml3i4.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

>>>>> "Miki" == Miki Tebeka <tebeka at cs.bgu.ac.il> writes:

    Miki> Hello All, I'm looking for a PDF parser.  Any pointers?

A little more info would be helpful: do you need access to all the pdf
structures or just the text?  AFAIK, there is no full pdf parser in
python.  The subject has come up several times before, so check the
google.groups archives

  http://groups.google.com/groups?q=pdf+parser+group%3A*python*&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&btnG=Google+Search

Things people have suggested before: 

  1) use pdftotext and parse the text
  2) wrap xpdf's parser.

For example, if you have pdftotext, the following will give you a
python file-like handle to the source:

def pdf2txt(fname):
    return os.popen('pdftotext -raw -ascii7 %s -' % fname)

If you just want to search and index pdf, see
http://pdfsearch.sourceforge.net.

John Hunter




From news at exultants.org  Sat Jul  5 01:17:22 2003
From: news at exultants.org (Van Gale)
Date: Sat, 05 Jul 2003 05:17:22 GMT
Subject: Server Push
In-Reply-To: <3f05b7ab$0$49103$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
References: <be2che$6ng$1@sparta.btinternet.com> <3f05b7ab$0$49103$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <CbtNa.5$Dj1.957478@newssvr15.news.prodigy.com>

Irmen de Jong wrote:
> John Bradbury wrote:
> 
>> I want to send updates from a long running cgi.  I have tried copying 
>> perl
>> examples of server push and can not get them to work.
>> Does anyone have an idiot proof example of a working server push or 
>> sending
>> output in chunks in Python?
> 
> to work). The other method is just flushing your output and
> continue to write more data...

I don't know the details, so this is hearsay, but there's another way 
apparently used by KnowNow (www.knownow.com) to implement a 2-way web 
interface.  Each browser page has 3 frames, one of which is hidden and 
is receiving non-ending Javascript from the server (which apparently 
modifies a visible frame as it comes it comes in).  This lets them do 
some slick things like auto-completion in web forms.

(Apologies to John for not providing any actual help with this post :/)

Van




From adam6No_Spam_Please at speedy.co.il  Fri Jul 25 18:12:45 2003
From: adam6No_Spam_Please at speedy.co.il (Adam)
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 00:12:45 +0200
Subject: Retrieving commands history on Pythonwin
Message-ID: <bfs6ge$jpk$1@news.iucc.ac.il>

Hi

I want to be able to retrieve (e.g. as a list) the commands history 
(i.e. previous commands issued) on the Pythonwin IDE. Any leads?

Adam




From staschuk at telusplanet.net  Fri Jul 25 17:22:13 2003
From: staschuk at telusplanet.net (Steven Taschuk)
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 15:22:13 -0600
Subject: Why does Python do this?
In-Reply-To: <jnj2ivcfngh2qqhrdhe58nlsgspkjv1g57@4ax.com>; from gre7g-d-1059579503.1d83b3@wolfhome.com on Fri, Jul 25, 2003 at 09:38:30AM -0600
References: <jnj2ivcfngh2qqhrdhe58nlsgspkjv1g57@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <20030725152213.A205@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>

Quoth Gre7g Luterman:
  [...]
> Python 2.2.2 (#3, Jun 16 2003, 19:11:56)
  [...]
> >>> class b:
> ...   def __str__(self):
> ...     print "printed"
> ...     return "returned"
  [...]
> >>> print y
>  printed
> returned
> 
> Note the extra space printed when I executed the "print y" command.

I don't know why this happens in 2.2, but I observe that it
doesn't in 2.3.  Presumably some softspace fix has been made.

> At first I thought it was just a quirk of the print command being
> interrupted by another, but I don't think it is quite that simple.  Note
> that:
  [...]
> >>> print str(y)
> printed
> returned
  [...]
> So it only seems to happen when you interrupt a print statement with
> another print statement during an implicit string conversion.

Indeed -- because that's the only way to actually "interrupt" one
print statement with another.  Consider the bytecode:

    >>> def bar(x):
    ...     print str(x)
    ... 
    >>> dis.dis(bar)
      2           0 LOAD_GLOBAL              0 (str)
                  3 LOAD_FAST                0 (x)
                  6 CALL_FUNCTION            1
                  9 PRINT_ITEM          
                 10 PRINT_NEWLINE       
                 11 LOAD_CONST               0 (None)
                 14 RETURN_VALUE 

Here the "inner" print statement occurs during the function call
(6), entirely before (hence not interrupting) the "outer" print
statement (9).

-- 
Steven Taschuk                               staschuk at telusplanet.net
"[T]rue greatness is when your name is like ampere, watt, and fourier
 -- when it's spelled with a lower case letter."      -- R.W. Hamming




From postmaster at 127.0.0.1  Wed Jul 16 08:42:06 2003
From: postmaster at 127.0.0.1 (David McNab)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 00:42:06 +1200
Subject: Testers wanted - new Python DHTML framework
References: <pan.2003.07.16.10.06.37.385678@127.0.0.1> <mailman.1058353645.5210.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2003.07.16.12.42.06.325445@127.0.0.1>

On Wed, 16 Jul 2003 11:05:51 +0000, Moshe Zadka paused, took a deep
breath, then came out with:

> On Wed, 16 Jul 2003, David McNab <postmaster at 127.0.0.1> wrote:

> Have you demonstrated it? Did you give the documentation to someone,
> and had him writing useful software?

That's what I'm doing *now* in *pre-announcing* to this ng.

> Or is this just an assumption
> based on the fact that you find it easy to use, and did not have
> to learn it?

An assumption based on the fact that I used the same design style with
which I've written other python software (for which I've received
very positive feedback on its accessibility).

I try hard to write my software in a way that doesn't force its user to
contort his/her mind in umpteen weird directions to understand it.

I don't think I'm alone in the fact that I don't like having to smell a
programmer's dirty socks or analyse his pizza stains in order to
understand how to use his code.

>>  - lets you build your pages with a simple, intuitive and coherent
>>    document object model (DOM)
> 
> Is your DOM more simple, intuitive and coherent than minidom? microdom?
> DOM is usually used in reference to the W3C standard. If you deviate
> from the standard, it's probably best not to call what you have "DOM".

I'm using Document Object Model in a generic sense, similar to how the
word 'window' in a GUI sense doesn't always refer to M$ software.

I'm a bit cynical about DOM standards anyway, given how the client-side
DOMs between IE, Mozilla family, Konqueror and Opera etc are highly
disparate, and writing portable Javascript is such a CATPITA.

>>  - extremely extensible
> 
> Did you try to extend it, and are reporting success?

Yes. One of the examples on the website (and the website which coughs
up its own source code on request) both demonstrate this.

> With two different
> extension directions?

What do you mean by this? What constitutes a 'direction'? Subclassing?

>> , lends itself well to templating
> 
> You mean each person has to implement templating on his own? Or does
> it have a templating system?

User implements his/her own templating. In that respect, pyWeb can be
considered a bit more low-level than template-based systems. But for some,
the freedom to roll their own (and be in full control, and hot have to
conform to other people's abstractions) is a *good* thing.

Thanks for your feedback, moshez, but please recall that this is a
*pre*-announcement. The version is 0.1.0, not 1.0.

I know it's not immediately serving you the moon on a plate with a sprig
of parsely. But I feel you're jumping on it pretty hard, especially since
I'm only asking for testers. It's not like I've made any kind of formal
release announcement.

>>  - oersistent datastore that is stored on browser as compressed cookes.
>>    secured via hmac/sha1, can store 10-25k of data on browser.
> 
> That probably depends on the browser. The standard states:
> '''
>       * at least 4096 bytes per cookie (as measured by the size of the
>         characters that comprise the cookie non-terminal in the syntax
>         description of the Set-Cookie header)

When the persistent data object gets pickled, it gets broken up into
cookies of max size 2048 bytes each. If there's more data, the pickle gets
broken up into several cookies then reassembled at the next request.

Apache seems to barf when the incoming 'Cookie:' header exceeds 8k, so
this appears to be the driving constraint.

> '''
> which means that cookies might get cut off or not stored at all by
> the client.

Correct.

> You might be splitting the cookies off transparently, which
> should let you go up to 80k, but would probably make the job of anyone
> wanting to send his own cookies hard.

My apache has an 8k limit on total size of all incoming cookies. If you
use more persistent datastore, you've got less space for 'physical'
cookies, and vice versa. That is the user's responsibility.

However, thanks for your noises on this - makes me aware that I should add
to the doco to explain these constraints to the user.

BTW - the persistent data object supplements raw cookies, it doesn't
take the place of them. The 'session' object contains a SimpleCookie
instance, the use of which is explained in the doco.

> The standard also says, however,
> '''
> Applications should use as few and as small cookies as possible, and they
> should cope gracefully with the loss of a cookie. 
> '''
> [All quotes are from http://www.cis.ohio-state.edu/cgi-bin/rfc/rfc2109.html]
> 
>>    Accessed in
>>    python code by simply reading and setting attributes of an object

I leave it to the user (pyWeb programmer) to make their own decision on
this. Similar to the fact that gcc could be used to write very insecure
code, but that is not the fault of the compiler developer.

> It also matters, probably, that you use a secure RNG generator for the
> "secret" in the sha1/hmac schemes, otherwise a malicious client can still
> force you to execute code.

The 'secret' key gets chosen by the pyWeb programmer, with no prng
involved.

Granted, I should probably provide some scheme to make it easier for the
user to supply their own hmac 'secret', and possibly even assist them in
generating such.

Finally, note that there is no support for back-end database.

This is a deliberate decision, since it's targeted at people running
their sites on budget web hosts. There are hordes of hosts that offer
(mostly) great deals (eg CGI, 100MB storage, 10GB traffic) for around
$5-$10/month. But a lot of these hosts only have python 1.5.2, with no
MySQL interface module.

If you look through the examples, you'll see one which uses the Metakit
database engine (which can be uploaded in binary form to such hosts, and
which runs fine).

Cheers
David




From drs at ecp.cc  Sat Jul 12 13:14:07 2003
From: drs at ecp.cc (drs)
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 17:14:07 GMT
Subject: How do I have a client shutdown a win32 COM server?
References: <c9d82136.0307120847.4fdd12fa@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <zlXPa.16194$BM.5314940@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com>

"Noah" <noah at noah.org> wrote in message
news:c9d82136.0307120847.4fdd12fa at posting.google.com...
> Hi,
>
> How do I shutdown a win32 COM server?
>
can you just do a
>>> del x
?





From stacom at stacom-software.de  Fri Jul 25 10:08:45 2003
From: stacom at stacom-software.de (Alexander Eisenhuth)
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 16:08:45 +0200
Subject: data conversion question (binary string to 'real string')
In-Reply-To: <3waUa.5$gZ.161@news.oracle.com>
References: <bfr9h7$i62j8$1@ID-155280.news.uni-berlin.de> <R2aUa.4$gZ.55@news.oracle.com> <3F212EB3.7020600@stacom-software.de> <3waUa.5$gZ.161@news.oracle.com>
Message-ID: <bfrdm0$i6qd4$1@ID-155280.news.uni-berlin.de>

Manish Jethani wrote:
> Alexander Eisenhuth wrote:
> 
> 
>>This two lines converts 0.5 to a string in binary 
>>representation
>>
>> >>>from struct import *
> 
> 
> from binascii import hexlify
> 
> 
>> >>>bin_str =  pack('!f', 0.5)
>>
>>now bin_str is '?\x00\x00\x00', wich is the representation 
>>of 0.5 in the memory. I need now to convert this binary 
>>string to "3F000000", where '3F' is the hex value of the '?' 
>>in ascii - table.
>>
>>Any ideas ??
> 
> 
> foo = hexlify(bin_str)
> print foo
> 
> -Manish
> 
> PS:  You posted the same message thrice, by mistake.
> 
Thanks, that's it




From milyon at wp.pl  Wed Jul  9 10:20:47 2003
From: milyon at wp.pl (K)
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 16:20:47 +0200
Subject: Newbie - No module named stdwin
Message-ID: <beh8d4$gnu$1@topaz.icpnet.pl>

hello

All time all write programm's in Visual Basic but now i'm very excited and
learn a Python so install 2.2.3 version...

When i wanna open a window (like windows) i write

inport stdwin
stdwin.open ('my window')

and i have ImportError: No module named stdwin

Did i must install some package?? please help me





From fperez528 at yahoo.com  Tue Jul  8 13:06:55 2003
From: fperez528 at yahoo.com (Fernando Perez)
Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 11:06:55 -0600
Subject: Image Streaming
References: <381a2b17.0307072326.211c21b5@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <beetng$q06$1@peabody.colorado.edu>

Steffen Brodowski wrote:

> Hello everyone,
> 
> since one week, I'm programming with python. Its a realy interesting
> tool. I wrote a script for generating barcodes in jpg-format.
> Everything is ok, but my function "CreateBarcode" should write the jpg
> data into an outstream. All barcodes will be generate online, without
> saving the jpgs on harddisk.

Just a side comment:  jpg is the absolutely worst possible format you could use
for barcodes.  jpg suffers from aliasing (see Gibbs phenomenon in any numerical
analysis or Fourier series textbook), which you see as 'ringing shadows' around
sharp black/white transitions.  JPG was designed for smooth color, photographic
images.  It was a format designed to approach the exact opposite end of the
image spectrum than a barcode is.

For barcodes, use png, tiff or even gif (the patents expired recently).

If this is just an exercise in learning python, then it doesn't matter.  But if
you care about the quality of your generated barcodes (or black/white images in
general, such as scanned text), never use jpg for that.  

If you are for some reason absolutely forced to use jpeg, then use as high a
'quality factor' as you can afford.  It will give you very large files, but at
least the problems won't be as noticeable.

Best,

f.



From skip at pobox.com  Mon Jul 21 10:42:29 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 09:42:29 -0500
Subject: "Pure Python" MySQL module like Net::MySQL
In-Reply-To: <87fzl0q82k.fsf@pobox.com>
References: <bfddmi$7nk$1@eeyore.INS.cwru.edu>
        <mailman.1058718091.1276.python-list@python.org>
        <7xk7advy4c.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
        <87fzl0q82k.fsf@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <16155.64469.927247.366272@montanaro.dyndns.org>

I saw Paul's quote in John's reply.  I've yet to see Paul's not.  Hopefully
I'm not taking anything out of context.


    Skip> libraries haven't been ported.  On the other hand, the MySQL wire
    Skip> protocol is probably not part of the official external interface,
    Skip> so the author has to track changes to the protocol.

    Paul> What the heck?  If the wire protocol isn't part of the official
    Paul> external interface, then how on earth are external applications
    Paul> supposed to talk to the database?

By using the client library MySQL provides.  As far as I can tell, the MySQL
wire protocol is not documented in the current version of the manual
(http://www.mysql.com/documentation/mysql/bychapter/).  That suggests to me
that the protocol is not part of the external interface, and anyone
implementing it directly can't really complain if it changes.

Skip




From klapotec at chello.at  Thu Jul 31 11:52:26 2003
From: klapotec at chello.at (Christopher Koppler)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 15:52:26 GMT
Subject: Python's biggest compromises
References: <899f842.0307310555.56134f71@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3hdiivgqgrkn66caba8kop4matdnh20986@4ax.com>

On 31 Jul 2003 06:55:52 -0700, anthony_barker at hotmail.com
(Anthony_Barker) wrote:

>I have been reading a book about the evolution of the Basic
>programming language. The author states that Basic - particularly
>Microsoft's version is full of compromises which crept in along the
>language's 30+ year evolution.
>
>What to you think python largest compromises are?
>
[snip whitespace, dynamic typing, interpreted]

I don't see those as compromises, but mostly as assets.

Significant whitespace (you probably mean significant indentation -
whitespace isn't more or less significant in Python than in other
modern languages) I have only experienced as a boost in readability,
clarity and, most of all, consistence; and there's no possibility of
'brace style wars'.

Dynamic typing vs. static typing has already long ago reached the
status of holy war, so I'll decline to comment.

That python is not (yet) compiled, is mostly a non-issue (and if PyPy
is a success, it won't even be that). If it was just about
performance, then coding the really performance-intensive parts in C
should suffice, apart from kernel hacking and similar . In my
experience, the decision to convert a (successfully functioning)
project from 'a scripting language' to C/C++/Java has always been a
political one, and not really based on technical considerations.

That said, the only large compromise in Python language design I can
detect, is the decision to be quite strictly backwards-compatible
between versions, which is definitely not a bad thing, as long as the
language doesn't go baroque because of it. And Python 3.0 will
hopefully throw out any accumulated cruft.


--Christopher



From theller at python.net  Wed Jul  9 11:38:23 2003
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 17:38:23 +0200
Subject: tracebacks in embedded python
References: <7049ba55.0307090708.36f2a696@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <vfubr9qo.fsf@python.net>

mmueller at dgfz.de (Mike M?ller) writes:

> When I embed Python into C there is no traceback message on the screen
> after an uncaught exception. Using sys.exc_info() I can print may own
> traceback but I would need to insert try except statements at
> different places. Is there a way to "turn on" traceback writing to
> std.err (that also shows up at the screen)?

You should check the return value of the Python API call for failure.
Most functions return NULL or -1 on error.
Then you call PyErr_Print().

Thomas



From adalke at mindspring.com  Sat Jul 12 16:23:45 2003
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 14:23:45 -0600
Subject: mailbox_reader 1.0.2 -- Python module to read UNIX mailboxes sequentially.
References: <mailman.1058008218.28808.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bepqgn$fkc$1@slb9.atl.mindspring.net>

Grzegorz Adam Hankiewicz:
>     The module provides two classes: Mailbox, a file-like object
>     which allows you to iterate through the contents of a mailbox,
>     and Email, an object which holds the individual emails returned by
>     Mailbox.

What does this do that the standard Python library doesn't support?
  mailbox - http://python.org/doc/current/lib/module-mailbox.html
      This module defines a number of classes that allow easy and uniform
      access to mail messages in a (Unix) mailbox.
  email - http://python.org/doc/current/lib/module-email.html
     The email package is a library for managing email messages,


                    Andrew
                    dalke at dalkescientific.com





From max at nospam.com  Wed Jul 23 15:54:47 2003
From: max at nospam.com (max)
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 19:54:47 GMT
Subject: Design tool
In-Reply-To: <xqxy8yprres.fsf@cola2.ca.boeing.com>
References: <3f1e985d$0$236@hades.is.co.za> <xqxy8yprres.fsf@cola2.ca.boeing.com>
Message-ID: <bKBTa.22352$On.2762320@twister.nyc.rr.com>

> Personally, I use Dia:
> http://www.lysator.liu.se/~alla/dia/
> 
> Some people use argo (which I find slow).  

.. but work on windoze...




From posselt at hotmail.com  Fri Jul 11 02:39:37 2003
From: posselt at hotmail.com (Peter Vestergaard)
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 08:39:37 +0200
Subject: command prompt change dir
Message-ID: <belm3i$22ek$1@news.cybercity.dk>

Hi
Probably a simple question but I have not been able to find out how:
I want my python script to generate a path based on some simple lookups and
then change my path so that when the script exits my command prompt (from
which I launched the script) is standing at this path. The path already
exists.
I have tried chdir(path), system('cd '+path) and many others but none
changes my actual path.
Hope anyone can help
Regards, Peter Vestergaard





From afriere at yahoo.co.uk  Wed Jul 30 22:41:24 2003
From: afriere at yahoo.co.uk (Asun Friere)
Date: 30 Jul 2003 19:41:24 -0700
Subject: Misuse of <tab>
References: <3f27f0e3$1@news.broadpark.no> <vifvcvqdd4mf4@news.supernews.com> <RbTVa.8214$gU6.967766@twister.nyc.rr.com> <pan.2003.07.30.20.07.18.351027@cs.rit.edu>
Message-ID: <38ec68a6.0307301841.dfb951a@posting.google.com>

"Keith Jones" <kmj9907 at cs.rit.edu> wrote in message news:<pan.2003.07.30.20.07.18.351027 at cs.rit.edu>...
> On Wed, 30 Jul 2003 17:25:05 +0000, max wrote:
> 
> > The problem with spaces is that you need to do 5 times the work of a tab
> > to get decent-looking indentation :).
> 
> Not if you have a good editor.. Use vim or emacs. In vim, try :h sts (I
> think, or :h softtabstop) ...it would suck to have to type
> <space><space><space><space> all the time, but you don't. :)

If you use vim remember to put 'set expandtab' (or if you wanna be
fancy 'au BufRead,BufNewFile *.py set expandtab' ) into your .vimrc
(or .exrc) file.  This way you can use '[Ctrl]-[T]' and '[Ctrl]-[D]'
to in- and un-dent in insert mode, as well as '>>' and '<<' in command
mode, without fear of hard tabs being inserted.  (Though the way vi(m)
mixes tabs and spaces is consistent enough that you wouldn't usually
get into any trouble with it.)



From sismex01 at hebmex.com  Wed Jul 30 10:19:08 2003
From: sismex01 at hebmex.com (sismex01 at hebmex.com)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 09:19:08 -0500
Subject: python in parallel for pattern discovery in genome data
Message-ID: <F7DB8D13DB61D511B6FF00B0D0F0623305951B3E@mail.hebmex.com>

> From: BalyanM [mailto:manojbalyan at ccmb.res.in] 
> Sent: Mi?rcoles, 30 de Julio de 2003 06:19 a.m.
> To: python-list at python.org
> Subject: python in parallel for pattern discovery in genome data
> 
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I am new to python.I am using it on redhat linux 9.
> I am interested to run python on a sun machine(SunE420R,os=solaris)
> with 4 cpu's for a pattern discovery/search program on biological
> sequence(genomic sequence).I want to write the python code so that it
> utilizes all the 4 cpu's.Moreover do i need some other libraries.
> Kindly advice.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> Manoj
>

Well, when designing and writing your code, take into account that
Python has a single central interpreter lock, so if you use
multiple threads, only one will be running in any given instant,
even if you have four processors.

What you'd need to do is write your utilities in two parts, one that
does "all the work", and another one a front end.  The front end
dispatches jobs to the backends, keeping a pool of back end
active backend processes, and since each backend is an independant
process, you can use as many processors as you have.

Good luck, hope this helps.

-gustavo


Advertencia:La informacion contenida en este mensaje es confidencial y
restringida, por lo tanto esta destinada unicamente para el uso de la
persona arriba indicada, se le notifica que esta prohibida la difusion de
este mensaje. Si ha recibido este mensaje por error, o si hay problemas en
la transmision, favor de comunicarse con el remitente. Gracias.




From missive at frontiernet.net  Fri Jul  4 18:25:50 2003
From: missive at frontiernet.net (Lee Harr)
Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 22:25:50 GMT
Subject: Form using HTML on PythonCard
References: <mailman.1057322477.18286.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrnbgbvpu.10m.missive@localhost.my.domain>

> Somebody know how make html forms or python forms inside html to use as gui 
> application? 
> 
> The idea is make a client application like a web site of my interprise for 
> customers who don't have good connection, in this way the customer can select 
> the products off line and connect only to execute the shop. The use of HTML 
> is to have the same paradigm to application and to site.
> 

How about starting a simple webserver / proxy on their machine?

You could just connect to that, and if their connection is up
forward the information on to your real server.





From simonb at webone.com.au  Thu Jul 10 15:59:34 2003
From: simonb at webone.com.au (Simon Burton)
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 05:59:34 +1000
Subject: Number Theory modules for Python
References: <mailman.1057852036.22895.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2003.07.10.19.59.33.288714@webone.com.au>

What do you want? What have you found?
I don't know much about comp-NT, but ,,, err Grobner bases stuff? 
And everyone seems to have their own polynomial implementation,
the one in SciPy uses Numeric so it seems designed for bigishness etc.,,,
Not sure if there is any high grade algebra stuff out there for python,
let me know what you find.

Simon Burton.


On Thu, 10 Jul 2003 17:47:38 +0200, L?tez? wrote:

> Hi!
> 
> 
> I searched the Net and found several Number Theory (NT) related Python
> extension modules. Some of them may be used to do some research but
> unfortunately almost all promising modules disappeared from the Net, so I
> wasn't able to download them. I'm sure, that it's my fault and NT packages
> are actually exist and downloadable - somewhere.
> 
> Please send me any known NT related materials/URLs can be used to do NT
> research.
> 
> 
> Thanks: Complex





From bgailer at alum.rpi.edu  Tue Jul 22 12:48:28 2003
From: bgailer at alum.rpi.edu (Bob Gailer)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 10:48:28 -0600
Subject: py2exe command line window problem
In-Reply-To: <1ee79758.0307220827.78f8571@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20030722104728.04122ec0@66.28.54.253>

At 09:27 AM 7/22/2003 -0700, Prashant Singh wrote:

>I'm using py2exe to create a standalone executable from a Python
>script, and I would like the script to run invisibly, i.e. without a
>console window and without any interactive GUI. The script is a helper
>app, which simply downloads and runs some other program.
>
>I've tried passing the -w flag to the script, and I've also tried
>renaming it with a .pyw extension, but when the executable is run an
>empty console window opens with the title "C:\WINNT\system32\cmd.exe".
>I've checked, and there are no print statements, which might cause
>py2exe to assume it's still a console app.

How are you running the executable?

Bob Gailer
bgailer at alum.rpi.edu
303 442 2625
-------------- next part --------------

---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.500 / Virus Database: 298 - Release Date: 7/10/2003

From martin at v.loewis.de  Tue Jul 15 00:56:56 2003
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-15?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 15 Jul 2003 06:56:56 +0200
Subject: anything like C++ references?
References: <b8c3hvsesjoumiboobml3nsnajtha99mp1@4ax.com> <mailman.1058129901.28248.python-list@python.org> <plk3hv0s1m2egf4s34jo6vjedk0q8r2mu9@4ax.com> <m365m6ul5c.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <mailman.1058145500.19181.python-list@python.org> <e464hvcq48q3240ecfcs6jqhqf616q7v1a@4ax.com> <m3k7alr86s.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <poi6hvc9n1fuh95gvr9kcc1kmb4o2cablt@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <m3znjg5qw7.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Stephen Horne <intentionally at blank.co.uk> writes:

> Write...
> 
>   x = classname()
>   y = x
> 
> ... and that would be an error.
[...]
> However...
> 
>   x = &classname()
>   y = x
> 
> ... and everything is fine.

If any kind of implicit reference assignment would be an error, then I
assume

x = classname()
x.foo()

would also be an error? because that assigns a reference of the object
to the implicit 'self' parameter of the method?

> > This is completely different from the notion of
> >values in C or C++, where each occurrence of the literal 5 creates a
> >new value whose state is 5.
> 
> Not true. Each occurence of the literal 5 creates a new 'symbol' which
> represents the value 5. The immutability of values is preserved in
> C++.

That is not true. There are no "symbols" in C beyond those that you
use to name functions and global variables. Every occurrence of an
integer literal *does* create a temporary object, every time the
literal is *executed*.

Regards,
Martin




From phoebe_1 at no_spam.worldnet.att.net  Fri Jul 25 00:14:23 2003
From: phoebe_1 at no_spam.worldnet.att.net (Holden Caulfield)
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 04:14:23 GMT
Subject: Python 2.3C1 Fails to build ?
Message-ID: <z82Ua.71562$0v4.4775810@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>

Hi,

I am trying to build Python 2.3 RC1 (2.3c1) on Cray SV1 running UNICOS 10.0.
And I am difficulty
building it on this architecture.

Background
--------------

. Python 2.2.3 builds withs no problem. (without any changes).
. This architecture has all C-datatypes as 8 bytes.

Try 1:
-------

I got this error message first time around.

~~~~ Cut ~~
cc -h nomessage=450 -h nostdc -h noconform -c  -DNDEBUG -h scalar0 -h
vector0 -I. -I./Include  -DPy_BUILD_CORE -o Parser/grammar.o
Parser/grammar.c
CC-513 cc: ERROR File = Parser/grammar.c, Line = 45
  A value of type "int" cannot be assigned to an entity of type "char *".

   d->d_name = strdup(name);
             ^

CC-513 cc: ERROR File = Parser/grammar.c, Line = 105
  A value of type "int" cannot be assigned to an entity of type "char *".

   lb->lb_str = strdup(str);
              ^

Total errors detected in Parser/grammar.c: 2
make: *** [Parser/grammar.o] Error 1

~~~~~~

- For some reason the strdup prototype does not get picked by the python
build.
Anyways, since strdup is there in libc, I just #ifdef'ed the prototype for
_CRAY and proceeded. It went
further this time around, but now I get this error in obmalloc.c, which
seems more problematic to fix.

~~~ Error message cut ~~~
cc -h nomessage=450 -h nostdc -h noconform -c  -DNDEBUG -h scalar0 -h
vector0 -I. -I./Include  -DPy_BUILD_CORE -o Objects/obmalloc.o
Objects/obmalloc.c
CC-61 cc: ERROR File = Objects/obmalloc.c, Line = 371
  The integer operation result is out of range.

   PT(0), PT(1), PT(2), PT(3), PT(4), PT(5), PT(6), PT(7)
   ^

CC-61 cc: ERROR File = Objects/obmalloc.c, Line = 371
  The integer operation result is out of range.

   PT(0), PT(1), PT(2), PT(3), PT(4), PT(5), PT(6), PT(7)
   ^

Total errors detected in Objects/obmalloc.c: 2
make: *** [Objects/obmalloc.o] Error 1
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Any ideas what is going on?

Thanks.





From jjl at pobox.com  Fri Jul  4 11:43:36 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 04 Jul 2003 16:43:36 +0100
Subject: A story about Python... sort of
References: <3f03f430$0$97222$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk> <dGZMa.5172$351.1725266@twister.nyc.rr.com> <mailman.1057259346.26179.python-list@python.org> <Yg3Na.97773$R73.11565@sccrnsc04> <be2hsc$41l$1@panix3.panix.com>
Message-ID: <87llve8fh3.fsf@pobox.com>

aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) writes:

> In article <Yg3Na.97773$R73.11565 at sccrnsc04>,
> Russell Reagan <rreagan at attbi.com> wrote:
[...]
> At the same time, more and more of those games are switching to using
> C/C++ only for the rendering engine and using a scripting language (Lua
> or Python) for the gameplay itself.

Is this true of big-$ commercial games?  What sort of market share do
high-level / interpreted languages have there?

Never having been a (graphical) games player, I don't know the first
thing about how games developers do things.


John



From john.abel at pa.press.net  Tue Jul  8 10:25:26 2003
From: john.abel at pa.press.net (John Abel)
Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 15:25:26 +0100
Subject: win32security.LogonUser
In-Reply-To: <b0c5da3a.0307080558.ba3d879@posting.google.com>
References: <b0c5da3a.0307080558.ba3d879@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3F0AD456.5030901@pa.press.net>

Hi,

Try adding the user running the script, to "Act As PartOf The OS" in the 
policy editor.  It seems that is required, for you to add/remove tokens.

Regards

John

Darrell wrote:

>On windows 2000 I tried to use winprocess.py with the login option.
>In an effort to run as a diffrent user.
>It didn't work and lots of searching didn't help.
>This was my best hit.
>http://www.faqts.com/knowledge_base/view.phtml/aid/4466
>
>Worked around the problem using runas.exe
>
>This is as far as I got.
>The following code tries to give me every Privilege it can then fails.
>pywintypes.error: (1314, 'LogonUser', 'A required privilege is not
>held by the client.')
>
>--Darrell
>
>
>import win32con, os, sys
>sys.path.append(os.sep.join(win32con.__file__.split(os.sep)[:-2])+os.sep+"demos")
>    
>import winprocess
>from ntsecuritycon import *
>import ntsecuritycon, win32security, win32api
>    
>def AdjustPrivilege(priv, enable = 1): 
>    print priv
>    # Get the process token. 
>    flags = TOKEN_ADJUST_PRIVILEGES | TOKEN_QUERY |TOKEN_DUPLICATE|
>TOKEN_IMPERSONATE
>
>    #flags= TOKEN_QUERY 
>    htoken = win32security.OpenProcessToken(win32api.GetCurrentProcess(),
>flags)
>    # Get the ID for the privilege. 
>    try:
>        id = win32security.LookupPrivilegeValue(None, priv) 
>    except:
>        print 'Fail'
>        return
>    # Now obtain the privilege for this process. 
>    # Create a list of the privileges to be added. 
>    if enable: 
>        newPrivileges = [(id, SE_PRIVILEGE_ENABLED)] 
>    else: 
>        newPrivileges = [(id, 0)] 
>        # and make the adjustment. 
>    win32security.AdjustTokenPrivileges(htoken, 0, newPrivileges) 
>
># now set the rights 
>if 1:
>    for k, v in ntsecuritycon.__dict__.items():
>        if k.find("SE_")==0 and isinstance(v, str):
>            print k,
>            AdjustPrivilege(v)
>    
>AdjustPrivilege(SE_CHANGE_NOTIFY_NAME) 
>AdjustPrivilege(SE_TCB_NAME) 
>AdjustPrivilege(SE_ASSIGNPRIMARYTOKEN_NAME)
>
>SE_INTERACTIVE_LOGON_NAME = "SeInteractiveLogonRight"
>#AdjustPrivilege(SE_INTERACTIVE_LOGON_NAME)
>
>if __name__ == '__main__':
>
>    # Pipe commands to a shell and display the output in notepad
>    print 'Testing winprocess.py...'
>
>    import tempfile
>
>    timeoutSeconds = 15
>    cmdString = """\
>REM      Test of winprocess.py piping commands to a shell.\r
>REM      This window will close in %d seconds.\r
>vol\r
>net user\r
>_this_is_a_test_of_stderr_\r
>""" % timeoutSeconds
>
>    cmd, out = tempfile.TemporaryFile(), tempfile.TemporaryFile()
>    cmd.write(cmdString)
>    cmd.seek(0)
>    print 'CMD.EXE exit code:', winprocess.run('cmd.exe', show=0,
>stdin=cmd, login=".\nuser\nuser1",#administrator\n",
>                                    stdout=out, stderr=out)
>    cmd.close()
>    print 'NOTEPAD exit code:', winprocess.run('notepad.exe %s' %
>out.file.name,
>                                    show=win32con.SW_MAXIMIZE,
>                                    mSec=timeoutSeconds*1000)
>    out.close()
>  
>






From Frank at no.spam  Thu Jul 24 04:20:42 2003
From: Frank at no.spam (Frank)
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 04:20:42 -0400
Subject: How do I get info on an exception ?
References: <fc07672ed11f5dcad539bcf9bf0d051f@news.1usenet.com> <U2NRa.7475$7O.275@nwrdny01.gnilink.net> <vhh3kss6ailjf9@corp.supernews.com> <qbySa.19290$7O.15283@nwrdny01.gnilink.net> <vhqqekoa2osu77@corp.supernews.com> <oYeTa.26187$7O.15995@nwrdny01.gnilink.net>
Message-ID: <o4suhvgb2op3ua3lro6esn44gslmr6vuc1@4ax.com>

On Tue, 22 Jul 2003 17:59:48 GMT, "Raymond Hettinger"
<vze4rx4y at verizon.net> wrote:

>[Cameron Laird]
>> >> But unsatisfying--at least to me.
>> >
>> >Submit a patch.
>> .
>> .
>> .
>> I deserved that.
>
>It wasn't a jab.
>Truly, if you see a way to clarify the docs, submit a patch.
>If everyone finds it helpful, it will be accepted.  That's how
>the docs improve over time.  I've personally written or
>accepted over a hundred of these in the past year.
>
>
>> There was more to my post, of course.  Part of what I was trying to
>> express is that exception interfaces are almost always relegated to
>> a footnote, with only a generalized description, even in the frequent
>> case that a method's exceptions are more complicated than its invoca-
>> tions.
>
>No doubt, exceptions often get less explanation than everything else.
>However, in this case, the docs seemed reasonably clear to me.
>
>The part that could be improved is where it talks about returning a
>message or a tuple, as if either one but not both could occur at any
>time.  It would be more accurate to say, that in all cases an exception
>instance is returned; the instance has a __str__ method so it can be
>printed as if it were a string; the instance has an attribute "args" which
>is the tuple (errno, errmsg); and the instance has a __getitem__ method
>so the args tuple can be directly unpacked as if the instance had been
>the tuple itself.
>
>OTOH, that is long-winded and distracts from the flow of knowledge
>about sockets.  It is also how all exception instances work.
>
>
>> So, Raymond, do you have general guidelines for how you think excep-
>> tions should be documented?
>
>Unless there are interesting values being returned, it is probably
>sufficient to name the exception, state what it represents, and
>describe where it fits in the class structure (i.e. socket.herror is a
>subclass of socket.error).  When you think about it, why have
>three paragraphs on an exception whose code is as simple as:
>
>    class xyzException(Exception): pass     # raised when xyz occurs
>
>When interesting values are returned, describe the meaning of
>each element in the instance's arg tuple (i.e.  (errno, errmsg)).
>Afterall, the code behind it may be as simple as:
>
>    raise socket.herror(errno, errmsg)  # reveal the packet's error information
>
>Elsewhere in the docs, functions descriptions should list the names
>of the exceptions they can raise unless it is obvious or pertains
>to a whole collection of functions (i.e. all high-volume socket
>operations can potentially raise a timeout).
>
>In general, I like the documents to be as specific as possible without
>replicating the code or locking in a particular implementation.  However,
>there is a competing force to keep module documents centered on how
>to use the module.  For example, I found the unittest documentation to
>be highly specific and thorough, yet unsatisfactory because you practically
>had to read a book on the subject to be able to make basic use of the
>module.  To fix it, I added a new introductory section that covers
>(in one page) the 5% of the module that will meet 95% of your needs
>(enough to get you up and running).
>
>
>Raymond Hettinger
>
Thanks to all for your help.

After checking that the input is a string, I try calling
gethostbyname/addr depending on whether the first char is numeric and
catch: 
	"except socket.error, err:"
Will this catch all possible errors?  I've tried feeding various
errors into my def and caught them all so far.  Input might come from
users at the keyboard, and crashing the program is not an option, no
matter what is typed in.
------------------------------------
I did look for the solution before posting;  I checked:
	Python Lib Ref 2.2.2
	Python Language Ref 2.2.2
	Lutz - Learning Python
	Lutz - Programming Python, 2nd
	Holden - Python Web Programming
	Brueck - Python 2.1 Bible
	Martelli - Python in a Nutshell
and even Guido's Tutorial.  If the complete answer is there, I could
not find it or assemble all the parts from the various references.
Perhaps with more experience in Python it would have been clearer, but
I have to agree with those that say exceptions are not well
documented.  Complete and precise documentation is probably more
important for a language/compiler/interpreter system than any anything
else.  

Frank



From bokr at oz.net  Fri Jul 25 20:16:22 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 26 Jul 2003 00:16:22 GMT
Subject: How to detect typos in Python programs
References: <ZPaUa.6$gZ.133@news.oracle.com> <84e0f331.0307251036.6504b16a@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bfsh8m$39k$1@216.39.172.122>

On 25 Jul 2003 11:36:23 -0700, rshaw2 at midsouth.rr.com (Richard) wrote:
[...]
>
>Two words! Unit Testing!
>
>Just do a google search on "Python unit testing" and I'm sure you'll
>get more information than you ever wanted to know.
>
I'm afraid with that last line you just named a big obstacle
to more widespread adoption of unit testing ;-/

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From jim-usenet at jimdabell.com  Wed Jul 30 07:01:48 2003
From: jim-usenet at jimdabell.com (Jim Dabell)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 12:01:48 +0100
Subject: Showing IP address of a user...
References: <7b454334.0307291005.53ee8c07@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <pg2dnSgwIbO4O7qiRTvUqg@giganews.com>

Fazer wrote:

> I was wondering how I can show an IP address of a person who visits a
> Python web-page?  Would I have to use Environment variables to access
> Apache's server variables which hold such values like in PHP or what?

I see you've already been given answers to this, however bear in mind that
what you are determining is the IP address of the client, not the IP
address of the person visiting the page.  In many cases, the two are not
the same, such as when the visitor is using a proxy.

There's no reliable way of getting the IP address of the person, but you can
make things a little more reliable by examining the X_FORWARDED_FOR header
as well, since many proxies add this header to their requests (also bear in
mind that they may be private addresses, such as 10.0.0.1).

-- 
Jim Dabell




From intentionally at blank.co.uk  Mon Jul 14 20:27:43 2003
From: intentionally at blank.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 01:27:43 +0100
Subject: anything like C++ references?
References: <000301c348c7$3c501980$21795418@dell1700>  <sag3hv4vf884ed7ouu5cv8ofnopp9j1t12@4ax.com>  <f0f51c80.0307132003.264b6894@posting.google.com>  <7dc4hvslh7a8fk9p6cvsfqa1c8d44rmmnv@4ax.com>  <beuepu$bsm$1@panix3.panix.com>  <sdd6hvsmsq32o62oknpqft6dc61lbup8rn@4ax.com> <20030714173855120-0600@news.xmission.com>
Message-ID: <9mh6hv45v18apgn6lp7bo6mm63e5oba9rd@4ax.com>

On Mon, 14 Jul 2003 23:38:56 +0000 (UTC), Adam Ruth
<owski at hotmail.com> wrote:

>So, then, what makes a different variable type?  If not different syntax 
>and semantics, what would be the signature?

In the sense in which you said there were three types of variables in
C++, there are no different variable types. Pointer data types are
nothing special compared with any other data type.

Syntax and semantics vary from one data type to another, just as with
the mathematical concept of abstract data types. Nothing wrong with
that. In mathematics, an abstract data type is associated with a set
of values *and* a set of operations.

>Let me see if I understand what you're saying.  Even though C++ 
>variables can have different syntax and semantics (depending sometimes 
>on context), the're all really the same internally and are therefore 
>perfectly consistent and usable.

Its not about implementation details. Its about respecting the binding
of variables to values - a high level concept from mathematics.
Binding of variables to objects is a low level implementation detail
in programming languages.

>  Python variables, on the other hand (
>mutable and immutable) have somewhat different semantics (a debatable 
>point) but identical implementaions (indeed, indistinguishable), but are 
>somehow invalid?  

Yes. BY DEFAULT they do NOT respect the binding of variables to
values.

>You say that there is one gold standard definition for what a variable 
>is.  Yet even though C++ deals with variables in three semantically 
>distinct way, they are somehow all valid within that definition?

C++ does not deal with variables in three semantically distinct ways.
It provides a wide range of data types (including pointer types and
reference types) and, in keeping with the mathematical concept of an
abstract data type, each has both its own set of values and its own
set of operations. The only way in which semantics vary from variable
to variable is in that some of those semantics are tied to the
abstract data type.

And C++ respects the binding of variables to values (unless you write
buggy code). Even when using pointers, the binding of variables to
values is preserved. It is merely that pointer values provide an
indirect way of referencing a store location, or placeholder, which
may be manipulated (ie bound to a different value) using some other
means of identifying that placeholder.

That is, the concept of a placeholder referenced potentially by more
than one variable only becomes an issue if you specifically ask for
it.




From jguerin at cso.atmel.com  Thu Jul 31 13:02:37 2003
From: jguerin at cso.atmel.com (Justin Guerin)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 11:02:37 -0600
Subject: Misuse of <tab>
In-Reply-To: <3f27f0e3$1@news.broadpark.no>
References: <3f27f0e3$1@news.broadpark.no>
Message-ID: <200307311102.37563.jguerin@cso.atmel.com>

On Wednesday 30 July 2003 10:20 am, Gisle Vanem wrote:
> I'm a .py newbie and fascinated by the simplicity of formatting.
> No need for {} as in Perl etc. But the misuse of <tab> that many
> .py writers do makes it hard to understand how a script operates.
>
> E.g.
>
> def main():
>    terminate = 0
>    def foo():
>        line = sys.stdin.readline()
> <tab>  try:
>         bar()
>     except:
>         terminate = 1
>
> main()
>
> Now, with an editor with different tab-settings it's difficult to see where
> the try statement belongs. In 'def main()' or in 'def foo()' ?
> I'm confused, please enlighten me.
>
> --gv

In this case, you can tell by the except clause.  except: can only follow a 
try:, and they must be on the same indent level.  Also, if the try: was in 
'def foo()', 'bar()' would have to have a higher indent level than 'line = 
sys.stdin.readline()'.  (From what I can see, it does, but I'm not sure that 
was intended, as the except came in at a different indent level from either)  
So for this example, the try: belongs in 'def main()'  

Justin





From jjl at pobox.com  Tue Jul 29 17:02:56 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 29 Jul 2003 22:02:56 +0100
Subject: PyQt Help and Advice
References: <bg636k$408g$1@netnews.upenn.edu>
Message-ID: <87u19559mn.fsf@pobox.com>

ilyak at red.seas.upenn.edu (Ilya Knizhnik) writes:
[...]
> However since PyQt is rather new, I have not found much documentation on 
> it, or examples in it.  The only useful tutorial/book I have found is at 
> www.opendocspublishing.com/pyqt/ but it is not always clear for someone 
> with almost no GUI experience.
> Does anyone have any suggestions?

PyQt isn't new.  The reason there's not documentation for every API
function is that the Python interface slavishly follows the C++ API
(actually, I believe you can now pay for documentation, but I don't
see the point).  The PyQt docs just list the slight deviations from Qt
proper.  The Qt docs are excellent, and you really don't need to know
C++ to understand them.


John



From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Jul  4 23:18:40 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 23:18:40 -0400
Subject: Python is a gem, you need to keep pushing it ....
References: <mailman.1057327627.5127.python-list@python.org>
		<3F05C138.687F5A06@engcorp.com>
		<3F05C320.BF195230@engcorp.com> <mailman.1057346287.20641.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3F064390.981B1B3@engcorp.com>

delphiro wrote:
> 
> In our company however there is not a thing that could not be 
> done with Python. And as I think of our company as a very regular 
> IT company ('development keywords'; gui / database / internet / 
> client-server / sorter-system (well the last is not too regular 
> I guess :-)) this will fit for a lot of IT companies.
> 
> And off course, if someone wants to have a macro for Word 
> of Excel, Python won't do but it *will* for almost any regular 
> IT job. That's my point.

Ah, thanks for clarifying then.  "IT" is a subset of a much 
larger area of computing, in which there are likely to be,
I believe, a sizable number of areas for which Python is _not_
the *best* tool.

My own company is not "IT", but what you'd probably call 
industrial control.  Python has a great many very effective
uses in that area, but there are things it is not "best" at,
apart from hardware drivers.  One, for example, is hard real-time
work... it's not very good at all there. :-)

-Peter



From gh at ghaering.de  Mon Jul 21 08:03:11 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 14:03:11 +0200
Subject: distutils.core not in Debian python2.2 package
In-Reply-To: <UcQSa.795$zu1.9043@reggie.win.bright.net>
References: <pfjSa.730$zu1.8428@reggie.win.bright.net>
	<qnkbrvq2glk.fsf@arbutus.physics.mcmaster.ca>
	<bAuSa.747$zu1.8518@reggie.win.bright.net>
	<qnk7k6c37au.fsf@arbutus.physics.mcmaster.ca>
	<UcQSa.795$zu1.9043@reggie.win.bright.net>
Message-ID: <3F1BD67F.8040905@ghaering.de>

Kent Tenney wrote:
> David M. Cooke wrote:
>> In general, if you need to compile, or develop, you need the
>> corresponding *-dev packages.
> 
> I didn't need to compile or develop, just install.
> 
> I expected
> 
> $ python ./setup.py install
> 
> to work out of the box. [...]

 From the view of the packagers, you only need disutils for development 
work. Manually installing modules counts as "development" as well. At 
least to them.

-- Gerhard




From sandysj at juno.com  Thu Jul 17 18:19:27 2003
From: sandysj at juno.com (Jeff Sandys)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 22:19:27 GMT
Subject: ps in windows
Message-ID: <3F1720EF.DCA2AD12@juno.com>

Not really a Python question except I will use Python to write the
script.

I have several Windows98SE PCs and a Linux PC on a home network.
I want the Linux PC running a cron job to query the Windows PCs to find
out what programs they are running.
Any pointers on how to do this?

Thanks,
Jeff Sandys



From tl_news at nexgo.de  Thu Jul 31 13:13:56 2003
From: tl_news at nexgo.de (Tino Lange)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 19:13:56 +0200
Subject: <dict>.setdefault()
References: <kmgiivclivi0vhbgr6adel4dafflq6i6ir@4ax.com> <87ispid400.fsf@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <3cjiivs4ippc6v7qjllfhi3knvthrfnj2g@4ax.com>

On 31 Jul 2003 18:01:51 +0100, jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee) wrote:

>Because that's the way Python always does function calls?

Of course. From the consistency point of view... perfectly right!
(I thought that maybe because these are very special low-level methods
for built-in types, it might be different....)

>Don't, then.  :-)  Use key in dict, or dict.has_key(key).

or the C-like style:
>>> a[3] = a.get(1) or b.setdefault(4,1)

Thanks!

Tino




From hwlgw at hotmail.com  Tue Jul 22 11:19:38 2003
From: hwlgw at hotmail.com (Will Stuyvesant)
Date: 22 Jul 2003 08:19:38 -0700
Subject: How to save web pages for offline reading?
References: <mailman.1058862693.11031.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <cb035744.0307220719.5b30a3e6@posting.google.com>

> [Carsten Gehling]
> Well since you ARE on Windows:
> 
> Open the page in Internet Explorer, choose "File" and "Save As...".
> You've now saved all necessary files.
> 

I know.  But I can't do File - Save As from python :-)  I guess it can
be done via COM?

> > I thought this whole thing would be easy with all those Python
> > internet modules in the standard distro: httplib, urllib, urllib2,
> > FancyURLxxx etc.  Being able to download a "complete" page *from
> > Python source* would be very nice for my particular application.
> 
> Well it's doable with those libraries, but you have to put your own meat 
> on
> the bones.
> 
> 1) Use httplib to get the page first.
> 2) Parse it for all "src" attributes, and get the supporting files. The
> parsin can be done with a html-parser ...

That would be htmllib.

What you describe is what I am going to do actually, when I have time
again.  I was about to do it when I thought "somebody must have been
doing this before".  It seems like mr. Pillai in another reply has
done something similar but I couldn't figure out from his source code.

Thank you all for the help!

-- 
Agree with them now, it will save so much time.



From drs at ecp.cc  Wed Jul  2 03:44:57 2003
From: drs at ecp.cc (drs)
Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 07:44:57 GMT
Subject: Date issue Win98 vs NT
References: <SDsMa.38974$hV.2346862@twister.austin.rr.com>
Message-ID: <Z3wMa.9907$BM.3067313@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com>

"Stan Cook" <scook at elp.rr.com> wrote in message
news:SDsMa.38974$hV.2346862 at twister.austin.rr.com...
> Has anyone else had this or a similar problem and is there a workaround?
>
> This piece of code:
>
> from time import gmtime, strftime
> _log = _log + "\\" + strftime("%m%d%y", gmtime()) + ".log"
>
> produces a file with the name 'today's date.log' on NT, but creates a file
> called 'tomorrow's date.log' on Windows 98.  I would really like to know
> why this happens.  Any help offered is very much appreciated.


maybe localtime() will work better than gmtime()?  could be a missetting
somewhere?

not the help you are looking for, but try

import os.path
os.path.join(_log, '%s.log' % strftime("%m%d%y", gmtime()))

or even

_log += ('\\%s.log' % strftime("%m%d%y", gmtime()))

to get rid of some of the + signs.

-d





From richie at entrian.com  Thu Jul 31 06:26:07 2003
From: richie at entrian.com (Richie Hindle)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 11:26:07 +0100
Subject: How to get Windows physical RAM using python?
In-Reply-To: <bg9btk$5ia$06$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <bg90lh$bkp$1@news3.bu.edu> <bg92o2$onr$1@news3.bu.edu> <bg9btk$5ia$06$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <9frhiv4im6gf38dqkurd0lr606crbsgn1f@4ax.com>

[Mark]
> How to check the amount of Windows physical RAM using python?

[Martin]
> You should call the GlobalMemoryStatus(Ex) function. To my knowledge,
> there is no Python wrapper for it, yet, so you would need to write one.

Easy with ctypes:

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

from ctypes import *

kernel32 = windll.kernel32

class MEMORYSTATUS(Structure):
    _fields_ = [
        ('dwLength', c_ulong),
        ('dwMemoryLoad', c_ulong),
        ('dwTotalPhys', c_ulong),
        ('dwAvailPhys', c_ulong),
        ('dwTotalPageFile', c_ulong),
        ('dwAvailPageFile', c_ulong),
        ('dwTotalVirtual', c_ulong),
        ('dwAvailVirtual', c_ulong)
    ]

def getTotalPhysicalBytes():
    memoryStatus = MEMORYSTATUS()
    memoryStatus.dwLength = sizeof(MEMORYSTATUS)
    kernel32.GlobalMemoryStatus(byref(memoryStatus))
    return memoryStatus.dwTotalPhys

if __name__ == '__main__':
    bytes = getTotalPhysicalBytes()
    print "Total physical RAM: %d bytes (%dMB)" % (bytes, bytes / 1024 / 1024)

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

-- 
Richie Hindle
richie at entrian.com





From intentionally at blank.co.uk  Tue Jul 15 00:02:18 2003
From: intentionally at blank.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 05:02:18 +0100
Subject: Qualified appology (was Re: anything like C++ references?)
References: <b8c3hvsesjoumiboobml3nsnajtha99mp1@4ax.com>  <mailman.1058129901.28248.python-list@python.org>  <plk3hv0s1m2egf4s34jo6vjedk0q8r2mu9@4ax.com>  <m365m6ul5c.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>  <1br3hv4434gn7p2pdg1bgtg8dtlak3id3s@4ax.com>  <f0f51c80.0307140708.3c88363d@posting.google.com>  <jm76hvkmdqq3erpd89mcvo0l1d0sbfcivm@4ax.com> <20030714172215452-0600@news.xmission.com>
Message-ID: <rqu6hvgooedmq475ig3ic9ngqgj6uq0hv2@4ax.com>

On Mon, 14 Jul 2003 23:22:18 +0000 (UTC), Adam Ruth
<owski at hotmail.com> wrote:

><snip buncha stuff>
>
>I started to write a response, and then I realized that it would be 
>pointless.  We're just gonna have to be happy in each other's ignorance.  
>Our skulls are too thick for each other's arguments.
>
>I'm gonna stick with the idea that we're both wrong.
>
>Even-though-your-more-wrong-erly yours,

Whatever. I've admitted the mistakes that I recognise I've made. If
you think there are other mistakes that I haven't recognised, its up
to you whether you explain them or not.

Just 'cause I can't sleep the last few nights, doesn't mean anyone has
to read my rantings, much less reply. Even if they *are* accurate
rantings ;-)




From sjmachin at lexicon.net  Wed Jul 30 17:33:49 2003
From: sjmachin at lexicon.net (John Machin)
Date: 30 Jul 2003 14:33:49 -0700
Subject: funny  slashdot quote regarding python 2.3 release
References: <3f279da0$0$13799$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net>	<3f27b0a9$0$49104$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl> <mailman.1059581093.19597.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c76ff6fc.0307301333.188f635@posting.google.com>

John Hunter <jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu> wrote in message news:<mailman.1059581093.19597.python-list at python.org>...
 
> 
> Why reinvent the wheel when you've got a brand new Michelin tire
> sitting in the garage?

Because you have a tyre and you don't have a wheel.



From skip at pobox.com  Mon Jul 14 15:46:31 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 14:46:31 -0500
Subject: some questions
In-Reply-To: <3f13031b$0$4026$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
References: <3f12f613$0$8731$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
        <beuvfj$o25$1@slb4.atl.mindspring.net>
        <3f13031b$0$4026$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
Message-ID: <16147.2199.923184.730696@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    >> Have you tried Python.org?  Python itself comes with a tutorial
    >> (maybe you are unaware of this, or maybe you want another?).

    Andreas> I know there is one. But I don't like it. Don't know what kind
    Andreas> of tutorial I'm looking for. Just some hints would be enough.

Hint: http://www.python.org/doc/Newbies.html

Skip




From wim_wauters at skynet.be  Wed Jul  9 17:35:35 2003
From: wim_wauters at skynet.be (WIWA)
Date: 9 Jul 2003 14:35:35 -0700
Subject: SNMP support for Python under Windows
References: <538fc8e.0307091027.1825b454@posting.google.com> <3F0C65FB.1B86A0C2@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <538fc8e.0307091335.70526148@posting.google.com>

Hi Peter,

I did two things, both unsuccessfull:

1) If I install the pySNMP modules under lib/site-packages and then
type sth like:
from pysnmp import session it gives the error message "ImportError: No
module named pysnmp". The same happens if I unstall pySNMP directly
under the lib directory. Installs in this context means 'copy paste'
the *.py files of the pySNMP distribution.

- Do I need to explicitly mention in my script where pySNMP is
installed?

2) I installed distutils 1.0.2 for Windows and it installed into the
Python directory. So ar so good, I think...
I go to DOS prompt and go to the directory where disutils is installed
and type in python setup.py install, but DOS replies:
'Python is not recognized as an internal or external command, program
or batchfile".

- Do I need to do sth special after installing Distutils


System coordinates are Windows XP. Python version is 2.2.2 and pySNMP
is version 3.0.0.

Any feedback is welcome and appreciated


Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message news:<3F0C65FB.1B86A0C2 at engcorp.com>...
> WIWA wrote:
> > 
> > I'm looking for SNMP support in Python. I have found pySNMP, but I'm
> > not sure whether this works under Windows as well. 
> 
> Yes, it does.
> 
> > A few questions:
> > 
> > 1) Where do I need to install the pySNMP files?
> 
> Doesn't it install with distutils?  If so "python setup.py --install"
> or whatever it says in the README would work.   Sorry, I haven't
> installed it lately.
> 
> If it doesn't have instructions, put the files under the 
> c:/python/lib/site-packages directory.
> 
> > 2) What do I have to do in order to be able to write somethin like:
> >    "from pysnmp import session"
> 
> Install, then type "from pysnmp import session"....   ;-)
> 
> > Thakns in advance for all input
> 
> (If you're having troubles, please note versions and platform
> next time, for Python, PySNMP, and Windows.)
> 
> -Peter



From JensRie at gmx.de  Thu Jul 10 03:12:07 2003
From: JensRie at gmx.de (Jens Riedel)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 09:12:07 +0200
Subject: Zope problem:  objectValues('Folder')
Message-ID: <3F0D11C7.4010805@gmx.de>

Hello NG,

I'm a newbie to Zope and just testing the examples from the Zope Book.
All in all it works great but I have a problem with one example:

I try to get a list of subfolders by using

<ul>
<dtml-in expr="objectValues('Folder')">
<li><a href="&dtml-absolute_url;"><dtml-var title_or_id></a></li><br>
</dtml-in>
</ul>
(From Zope Book Chapter 6)


I always get no entries (but there are 3 folders inside), the same 
problem occurs if I try objectValues('File') to show a file library.

In an example of the Zope Tutorial I use

<dtml-in expr="photos.objectValues()">
...

and it works fine.

I used copy-and-paste to get the code from the Zope Book so I'm sure I 
made no mistake. I tested on two different Windows systems (NT and 2000) 
with the current stable Zope release.

Does anybody know where the problem with "objectValues('Folder/File')" is?

Thanks,
Jens




From bdesth.nospam at removeme.free.fr  Mon Jul 14 16:39:22 2003
From: bdesth.nospam at removeme.free.fr (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 20:39:22 +0000
Subject: A few beginning questions
References: <3f129a8a$1@mail.hmgcc.gov.uk>
Message-ID: <3F1314FA.8030209@removeme.free.fr>

richardc wrote:
> Ive just started playing with Python and have a couple of questions.

Welcome

> Im looking for an agument parsing library (from the command line), Ive come
> across optik and argtools.  What other ones are there are any of them any
> good, is there a 'standard' lib for doing this.

See other posts in this thread

> Also how should I '#define' magic numbers in Python.  I spent ages looking
> around for a 'define' statement or anything that will allow me to create a
> constant value 'object'.  Am I missing something very obvious ?

Idem...

The 'obvious' thing you might be missing is that Python relies heavily 
on programmers following conventions, where other languages impose 
strict rules... Some conventions are :

UPPERCASE_VARIABLE : a constant, don't touch unless you really know what 
you're doing

_NameWithLeadingSingleUnderscore : 'protected' access , don't touch 
unless you really know what you're doing

__NameWithLeadingAndTrailingDoubleUnderscore__ :
a 'magic' thing, don't touch unless you really know what you're doing

A special case is __NameWithLeadingDoubleUnderscore :
In older Python version, it was just a convention for 'private' access, 
now it makes Python doing some mumbo-jumbo name mangling (which don't 
strictly enforce 'privacy', but)...

Another special case is the 'self' pseudo-key word : the first argument 
for object methods could be named whatYouWant, but (almost ?) everybody 
uses 'self'.

> Also, what 'IDE/editor' do people recomend for MAC OSX, so far Ive found
> 'Hydra' to be the best as it works on plain files and has Python syntax
> highlighting... what else is there and are any of them any good.

I guess vim and emacs should run on Mac OS X ?

> Has nobody written an editor/IDE in Python with wxWindows so that it runs on
> all platforms ?

You could try boa contructor (a wxPython delphi-like RAD/IDE).


Bruno




From duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk  Wed Jul  9 04:12:43 2003
From: duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk (Duncan Booth)
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 08:12:43 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Deleting specific characters from a string
References: <begfb3$7j6$1@online.de>
Message-ID: <Xns93B35D6DBF734duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

Behrang Dadsetan <ben at dadsetan.com> wrote in news:begfb3$7j6$1 at online.de:

> I would like deleting specific characters from a string.
> As an example, I would like to delete all of the '@' '&' in the string 
> 'You are ben at orange?enter&your&code' so that it becomes 
> 'benorange?enteryourcode'.
> 
> So far I have been doing it like:
> str = 'You are ben at orange?enter&your&code'
> str = ''.join([ c for c in str if c not in ('@', '&')])
> 
> but that looks so ugly.. I am hoping to see nicer examples to acheive 
> the above..

Use the third argument to string.translate:

>>> identity = string.maketrans("","")
>>> string.translate('You are ben at orange?enter&your&code', identity, "@&")
'You are benorange?enteryourcode'
>>> 

-- 
Duncan Booth                                             duncan at rcp.co.uk
int month(char *p){return(124864/((p[0]+p[1]-p[2]&0x1f)+1)%12)["\5\x8\3"
"\6\7\xb\1\x9\xa\2\0\4"];} // Who said my code was obscure?



From glenfant at NOSPAM.bigfoot.com  Fri Jul 18 11:32:22 2003
From: glenfant at NOSPAM.bigfoot.com (Gilles Lenfant)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 17:32:22 +0200
Subject: "\n" in ASCII-file
References: <bf8j40$bj4e4$1@ID-108519.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <bf9347$fpi$1@biggoron.nerim.net>

"Martin P" <martin_p at despammed.com> a ?crit dans le message de news:
bf8j40$bj4e4$1 at ID-108519.news.uni-berlin.de...
> Hello,
>
> for a short exercise-program I have to read the lines in an ASCII-file.
>
> But every line has a new-line-feed ("\n") at the end of the line. (The
> ASCII-file was made with Windows Notepad).
> Is this only because I used Windows (and Notepad)?
>
> And... is there any special method to read lines from a file without "\n"?
>
> Bye,
> Martin
>
>

3 ways (among others...) :

1/ You just want to remove all EOL characters and keep other blank trailing
characters:

f = open("myfile.txt", "r")
while 1:
  line = f.readline()
  if not line:
    break
  line = line.replace("\r", "")
  line = line.replace("\n", "")
  # process the line your way...

2/ You want to remove all EOL characters other blank trailing characters:

f = open("myfile.txt", "r")
while 1:
  line = f.readline()
  if not line:
    break
  line = line.rstrip()
  # process the line your way...

3/ You got python 2.3 (not me) and there's a new mode for reading the lines
without the EOL character(s). Read the manual at the "file object" chapter,
or "open" in the builtins chapter.

--Gilles




From tjreedy at udel.edu  Mon Jul 14 22:44:49 2003
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 22:44:49 -0400
Subject: bug in my code?
References: <bevl84$880$1@news7.svr.pol.co.uk>
Message-ID: <ua-dnfQZuo4_946iXTWJkw@comcast.com>

"Duncan Smith" <buzzard at urubu.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:bevl84$880$1 at news7.svr.pol.co.uk...
> Greetings.  I am struggling to track down what I presume is a bug in
my
> code.  The trouble is that it only raises its head occasionally.  I
have
> managed to prune the code to the following:
>
> shutTest.py
> --------------------------------------------------------
> import cPickle
>
> def test2(iterations):
>     for i in range(iterations):
>         try:
>             f = file('C:\\Python22\\(2, 2, 2, 3, 4).shu', 'r')
>             try:
>                 dependencies, nodes = cPickle.load(f)
>             finally:
>                 f.close()
>         except IOError:
>             pass
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Calling the function with a suitable argument (say, 100) doesn't
usually
> pose a problem.  The file is opened OK and the data unpickled.  But
> occasionally (or usually if I call the function with 1000 as
argument) I get
> the all too common, on Windows,
>
> 'The instruction at {some memory address} referenced memory at {some
other
> (and on one occasion the same) memory address}.  The memory could
not be
> "read".'
...
This sounds like maybe a hardware problem.

Is the unpickling necessary to get the error? -- or some discrepancy?

If you simply reread the file over and over, do you always get
*exactly* the same byte string?  Test this by reading once before the
loop and comparing subsequent reads to first.  What I asking is
whether you might have flacky or overheated disk drive giving
intermittant errors more often than once a terabyte.

TJR





From swenggsri at yahoo.com  Mon Jul 28 13:49:58 2003
From: swenggsri at yahoo.com (Sriram Chadalavada)
Date: 28 Jul 2003 10:49:58 -0700
Subject: Defining/declaring constants in Python
Message-ID: <f2800d70.0307280949.75e5faf0@posting.google.com>

Hello everyone,
  I am a newbie to Python with experience in C programming. For my
project, I am re-writing C routines as Python functions.
      I am currently using raw numerical values and  was wondering if
there is an equivalent of #define in Python for declaring constants.
 	 Is there an elegant way of defining constants in Python? Please let
me know.
                     
Thanks,
Sriram



From rastm2 at aol.commorespam  Thu Jul 24 04:20:16 2003
From: rastm2 at aol.commorespam (Raymond Arthur St. Marie II of III )
Date: 24 Jul 2003 08:20:16 GMT
Subject: Newbie question regarding py2exe.
References: <mailman.1059012102.343.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <20030724042016.06962.00000711@mb-m06.aol.com>

Marco - talking about py2exe said

>
>Sometimes modulefinder.py complains, other times its VersionInfo.py. 
>
>My question is how robust is py2exe? (Note that I have followed the docs to
>the letter.)
>
>Cheers, Marco
>

I sympathize Marco. 
Last night I tryed py2exe for the very first time.

I wrote a trivial random LOTTO Picker with GUI, as a test.
Used anygui - trying it for the first time also. 
Just a few labels, a Button to gen the nums and a one line text box for
display.
Impressed with anygui, I moved on to py2exe.

It worked ,,,,,,,eventualy. 

What I found was that...

There are no where near enough docs for py2exe.

    Yeah there's plenty of info for distutils and setup scripts
     but the "lazy" hacker is looking for samples.
   
    A repository for donated, well doc'ed "setup.py" examples is 
    IMHO needed. Write a working setup - doc it good - mail it to the archive.
    Donated because I can't expect Thomas Heller to 
    imaginate\dream up every possible way to write one.

I used the setup file for Aliens by ShredWheat at REMOVEMEmediaone.net
that I found at PYGAME as an example.
I hacked it and made it my slave and it did what I expected very well.

It's amazingly robust - to answer your question above. 

I looked forward to the py2exe output to list my unfound dependencies.

    It did this very well.
          (aside = Please someone tell me 
          how to capture the output to file in win32 comand line?
          I didn't see an option for that in the Doc at the website.)
    
    Writing the anygui script in Pythonwin made my backend( ) == mswgui. 
                                                                          
(sounds nasty don't it)
    This ment that all the anygui imports became the entire list of unresolved
modules.
    
    I could only imagine that if I had gone ahead and resolved them all in the
setup 
    script I would still be resolving them now. ( Am I correct in assuming this
would take
    me all the way down to Win32 sys dll's ? Anybody?)

Fortunately, I remembered reading that if the originating script only included 
pure Python code, then the modulefinder should have no problems.

Anygui to the rescue. Switched the backend to TKgui at the import statment.
One little change and YIPPIE ! All done. 
That ment that the setup.py became as simple as ...

# setup.py
from distutils.core import setup
import py2exe

setup(name="myscript",
      scripts=["myscript.py"],
)


Made my little 1.76Kb script into a whoppin 2MEGABYTES --- and that's the zip
file.

I got the entire TCL\TK source in there. 189 files including my script and the
Python dll
at 5,096kb ,,,,,,,,,, 5.1 MEG and it only took about as much wait time to build
as the zip 
file did to zip it.

Does it all have to be in there? I'm fairly certain NO.

One of these day's I'll have to add an --exclude statement or 100.
But nobody's gonna want this proggy so why.

UPSHOT -- I really like both programs and look forward to learing more about
them.

Robust? You bet !

Ray St.Marie
Rastm2 at slpamaol.com    



From max at alcyone.com  Tue Jul 22 22:09:21 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 19:09:21 -0700
Subject: python assignment
References: <fbf8d8f2.0307221659.1dd1ac77@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3F1DEE51.CD7FEB7F@alcyone.com>

dan wrote:

> What I need is an exact and unambiguous algorithm for determining when
> an assignment will change the id of the variable (or should I say,
> when the evaluation of an expression will cause a new object to be
> created).  Some of the issues involved can be discerned from the
> following session: ...

But this session only involves immutable objects (ints and floats). 
Since immutable objects can never change, whether two equal immutable
objects are identical is an implementation detail and cannot make a
difference in the real world.  The `is' tests you perform in your sample
code are exploring into the realm of transparent implementation-defined
behavior; it doesn't matter whether the objects end up being identical,
that's a matter of optimization.

Try performing analogous operations with _mutable_ objects like a list,
and see if you remain confused.

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ Many things are lost for want of asking.
\__/  (an English proverb)



From jegenye2001 at fw.hu  Mon Jul 21 19:01:18 2003
From: jegenye2001 at fw.hu (Jegenye 2001 Bt)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 01:01:18 +0200
Subject: Automatically filling in answers to interactive shell command questions
References: <d365ef4b.0307211423.27ba6d86@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bfhrba$6gg$1@namru.matavnet.hu>

If you use Linux then "expect" (a Tcl thing) is written just for this.






From owski at hotmail.com  Wed Jul 16 16:27:23 2003
From: owski at hotmail.com (Adam Ruth)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 20:27:23 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: anything like C++ references?
References: <rp94hvc8fg6h91oe7ctqq9jn9ku3nlud1k@4ax.com>  
	<f0f51c80.0307150945.3f19e48b@posting.google.com>  
	<qlq8hv8e7a5177o250c2fhvg9hv2lhfa15@4ax.com>  
	<20030715200433927-0600@news.xmission.com>  
	<1058328099.572993@yasure>  
	<20030716081156943-0600@news.xmission.com>  
	<donn-6E63A0.10284316072003@nntp1.u.washington.edu>  
	<20030716123907246-0600@news.xmission.com> 
	<donn-F604B9.12121916072003@nntp3.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <20030716142716509-0600@news.xmission.com>

In <donn-F604B9.12121916072003 at nntp3.u.washington.edu> Donn Cave  wrote:
> In article <20030716123907246-0600 at news.xmission.com>,
>  Adam Ruth <owski at hotmail.com> wrote:
>> In <donn-6E63A0.10284316072003 at nntp1.u.washington.edu> Donn Cave  
>> wrote:
>> > In article <20030716081156943-0600 at news.xmission.com>,
>> >  Adam Ruth <owski at hotmail.com> wrote:
>> > 
>> >> In <1058328099.572993 at yasure> Donn Cave wrote:
>> >> > Quoth Adam Ruth <owski at hotmail.com>:
>> >> > ....
>> >> >| In Python, there is no situation where "you really can't avoid 
>> >> >| pointers".  
>> >> > 
>> >> > That's trivially true, no such situation can exist because that
>> >> > Python can't be coded.  I'll repeat an example that I proposed
>> >> > a couple days ago, though:  user implemented sequences could be
>> >> > implemented with a single simple indexing function, returning
>> >> > a pointer/target/whatever;  Python could assign directly to that,
>> >> > making "seq[i] = x" the same kind of operation as and 
>> >> > automatically symmetrical with "x = seq[i]".
>  
> ....
>> You are correct, 'really need' is not much of an argument.  The 
>> statement I disagreed with was that it was bad to simulate pointers 
>> in  those situations where "you really can't avoid pointers".  I was 
>> expressing that really aren't any such situations, and that it's even 
>> worse try to simulate pointers when it's not really necessary.
> 
> OK, there really aren't any situations where you can't avoid
> pointers ... so you're ready with a solution to the problem
> I posed above?
> 
> Class scope containers that hold exactly one item, to pick a
> commonly seen usage that I suppose is a simulated pointer -
> that's really not necessary, and it's "even worse" (than what?)
> 
>    Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu

"Even worse" doesn't make much sense, there, does it?  I meant, faking 
pointers isn't bad because a pointer would be better, but faking 
pointers is bad because you don't need a pointer.  That makes more sense.

As for your problem on the subscript operator, I think my solution is: 
there's no problem.  Having the get and set asymetric is preferrable, in 
my view.  For example, I use it in a number of places where I cache the 
set operation:

def __getitem__(self, name):
	if name in self.cache:
		return self.cache[name]
	else:
		return someLongOperation(name)

def __setitem__(self, name, value):
	self.cache[name] = value

There are other reasons to have them as separate operations, but this is 
one that I have in a project I'm on now.  I think of them as logically 
separate operations, not necessarily opposite sides of the same coin.

Adam Ruth



From fredrik at pythonware.com  Tue Jul 15 11:47:49 2003
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 17:47:49 +0200
Subject: md5 consistent across platforms/Python versions?
References: <BB399017.29A40%grobinson@transpose.com> <BIEJKCLHCIOIHAGOKOLHCEPLGEAA.tim.one@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <bf17m3$2se$1@main.gmane.org>

Tim Peters wrote:

> > Can someone tell me whether an MD5 hash using Python's MD5 library IS
> > guaranteed to return the same results for the same input string,
> > across platforms and Python versions?
>
> Yes, it's the same, and the same as what you'll get from any other correct
> program for computing an MD5 digest from that string.

historical footnote: if you dig up really old Python versions, the MD5
calculation was broken on 64-bit platforms (the code assumed that a
long was always 32 bits)

this was fixed in 1996:

http://cvs.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/python/python/dist/src/Modules/md5.h.diff?r1=2.2&r2=2.3

</F>







From a.schmolck at gmx.net  Fri Jul  4 13:13:29 2003
From: a.schmolck at gmx.net (Alexander Schmolck)
Date: 04 Jul 2003 18:13:29 +0100
Subject: Why so many references to global variables?
References: <aD%Ma.5942$bD1.693184@news20.bellglobal.com> <yfs1xx7i88o.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <0S2Na.6305$bD1.721957@news20.bellglobal.com>
Message-ID: <yfsd6gqxlja.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk>

J-P <me at home.net> writes:

> Alexander Schmolck wrote:
> > J-P <me at home.net> writes:
> >
> 
> >>It appears that every time the interpreter tests for
> >>the value of 'myflag', it keeps a reference to it.
> > What makes you think so? This seems rather unlikely to me (not that the
> 
> > references themselves should eat your memory anyway!).
> 
> 
> Well, sys.getrefcount() does tell me there are 3 millions  references
> to it and other globals. Even though this doesn't eat up all my memory
> (how large is a reference object in Python?), I definitely think there's
> something fishy with keeping that many references to global variables that
> appear here and there in the script.


Erik Max Francis has hopefully already sorted your reference count confusion
out (if not, maybe a look under "reference counts" in the C API/extending bits
of the python docu might clarify matters), so I'll just give you a simple
practical tip:

Take one of the suspicious C extension functions, and call it repeatedly from
python (passing and returning data structures that are as large as possible
and that you discard immediately aftewerwards). Then using 'top' or something
equivalent, look at how the memory consumption of your program changes: if you
find that with each couple of calls python swallows a few megabytes, you can
be pretty sure that something is going wrong (at least if you force gc with
gc.collect()). 

Once you've isolated the function(s) you're in for some fun debugging the
corresponding C code, paying particular attention to PY_DECREFs and
PY_INCREFs.

> 
> 
> 
> 
> > Chances are, the C extension code doesn't work correctly (C extensions to
> > python code have to do memory management by hand; increasing and decreasing
> > reference counts for the python objects they deal with as appropriate; so if a
> > bit of code forgets to decrease the refcount, the object will stay alive
> > forever; my guess would be that this it what happens here).
> 
> Might be, but the ref count for the objects interacting with the C library are
> pretty much what I expect them to be, i.e. a few dozens.
> 
> I don't think there are other memory leaks in the bindings to the
> library. I've passed it through Purify a couple of times and everything
> seems clean.

Purify is unlikely to have a deep understanding of python's internal reference
counting (memory management) mechanism, right? So while it will be helpful for
finding memory *violations* (and leaks not due to refcounts) it's quite
unlikely to find problems due to the C extension not *decreasing reference
counts*, which is what I bet is happening in your case.

'as



From usenet_spam at janc.invalid  Tue Jul 22 22:04:38 2003
From: usenet_spam at janc.invalid (JanC)
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 02:04:38 GMT
Subject: Possible use of Python for a voting machine demo project --your feedback requested
References: <P9DSa.111436$Io.9552373@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <mailman.1058740232.22829.python-list@python.org> <GyGSa.111785$Io.9574045@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <Xns93C1297A0556BJanC@213.119.4.141>

"Alan Dechert" <adechert at earthlink.net> schreef:

> This ballot has 45 candidates in 10 contests

We often have more than 150 candidates for 1 contest here...
I guess that's why we only have 1-3 contests/ballots on the same day.  ;-)

-- 
JanC

"Be strict when sending and tolerant when receiving."
RFC 1958 - Architectural Principles of the Internet - section 3.9



From djc at object-craft.com.au  Fri Jul 11 01:01:56 2003
From: djc at object-craft.com.au (Dave Cole)
Date: 11 Jul 2003 15:01:56 +1000
Subject: Securing 'pickle'
References: <pan.2003.07.11.01.20.47.998070@127.0.0.1> <mailman.1057889236.17205.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m3isq9wta3.fsf@ferret.object-craft.com.au>

> On Thu, 2003-07-10 at 20:20, David McNab wrote:
> > I'm writing a web app framework which stores pickles in client cookies.
> > 
> > The obvious security risk is that some 5cr1p7 X1ddi35 will inevitably try
> > tampering with the cookie and malforming it in an attempt to get the
> > server-side python code to run arbitrary code, or something similarly
> > undesirable.
> >
> > To protect against this, I've subclassed pickle.Unpickler, and added
> > overrides of the methods load_global, load_inst, load_obj and find_class.
> 
> A much easier way to secure your pickle is to sign it, like:
> 
> cookie = dumps(object)
> secret = 'really secret!'
> hasher = md5.new()
> hasher.update(secret)
> hasher.update(cookie)
> cookie_signature = md5.digest()
> 
> You may then wish to base64 encode both (.encode('base64')), pop
> them into one value, and you're off.  Though I suppose at that point
> you may be hitting the maximum value of a cookie.  Hidden fields
> will work nicely, though.
> 
> Decoding and verifying is an exercise left to the reader.

That is exactly what Albatross does with pickles sent to the browser.
In case it is interesting to anyone, here is the class that does the
work of signing and checking the sign.

- Dave

class PickleSignMixin:

    def __init__(self, secret):
        self.__secret = secret
 
    def pickle_sign(self, text):
        m = md5.new()
        m.update(self.__secret)
        m.update(text)
        text = m.digest() + text
        return text
 
    def pickle_unsign(self, text):
        digest = text[:16]
        text = text[16:]
        m = md5.new()
        m.update(self.__secret)
        m.update(text)
        if m.digest() == digest:
            return text
        return ''


-- 
http://www.object-craft.com.au



From BranimirPetrovic at yahoo.com  Wed Jul 30 20:01:59 2003
From: BranimirPetrovic at yahoo.com (Branimir Petrovic)
Date: 30 Jul 2003 17:01:59 -0700
Subject: How to get Windows physical RAM using python?
References: <bg90lh$bkp$1@news3.bu.edu> <bg920a$9pt$05$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <b11d1191.0307301601.67450ca3@posting.google.com>

"Martin v. L?wis" <martin at v.loewis.de> wrote in message news:<bg920a$9pt$05$1 at news.t-online.com>...
> Python can't get you Windows physical RAM. You have to order RAM
> from a manufacturer or reseller if Windows needs more RAM :-)
> 
> Regards,
> Martin

"Easy" way to get to physical RAM on Windows is via WMI objects.

Before I've discovered (why/how use) Python this example below is
how I used to do it from JScript (did not "re-tool" and converted 
all my stuff to Python yet), but should be good enough to give 
you an idea of what to look for:


function getSysInfo(sHost) {
    //  Returns instance of Object object with these expando
properties:
    //
    //      oObj.Computer       NetBIOS computer name
    //      oObj.OSname         "Microsoft Windows 2000 Professional"
    //      oObj.OSver          4.0.1398 (for WinNT4), 5.0.2195 (for
Win2K), 5.1.??? (for WinXP)
    //      oObj.SPver          2 (for SP2), ...
    //      oObj.OStype         "W" (for Workstation), "S" (for
Server)
    //      oObj.IPaddr         "123.45.67.89"
    //      oObj.WinDir         "C:\Winnt"
    //      oObj.SysDir         "C:\Winnt\system32"
    //      oObj.RAM            In MB
    //      oObj.BootDev        "\Device\Harddisk0\Partition1"
    //      oObj.SysDev         "\Device\Harddisk0\Partition1"
    //      oObj.ERRMSG         will be "" or hold error message
string
    //      oObj.ERRNO          will be:
    //                              0 if there are no errors,
    //                              1 if system does not exist or is
unavailable,
    //                              2 if WMI is not installed on
target system,
    //                              3 other reason(s)...

    var oObj = new Object();

    if (!isIP(sHost)) {
        var oP = new PingerCLS();
        oObj.IPaddr = oP.getIP(sHost);
    } else oObj.IPaddr = sHost;

    try {
        var oOSset =
GetObject("winmgmts:{impersonationLevel=impersonate}!//"+sHost).InstancesOf("Win32_OperatingSystem")
        oObj.ERRNO = 0;
        oObj.ERRMSG = "NO ERRORS";
    } catch(e) {
        switch (e.number) {
            case 462 :
            case -2146827826 :
                //  The remote server machine does not exist or is
unavailable
                oObj.ERRNO = 1;
                oObj.ERRMSG = "Host does not exist or is not
available.";
                return oObj;
            case 429 :
            case -2146827859 :
                //  ActiveX component can't create object
                oObj.ERRNO = 2;
                oObj.ERRMSG = "Host is missing WMI capabilities.";
                return oObj;
            case -2147217405 :
                //  Lacking admim permissions to connect to host
                oObj.ERRNO = 3;
                oObj.ERRMSG = "Missing permissions to connect to this
host.";
                return oObj;
            case -2146828218 :
                //  "Permission denied" - DCOM not enabled error
message
                oObj.ERRNO = 4;
                oObj.ERRMSG = "DCOM not enabled on host: " + sHost;
                return oObj;
            case -2147418111 :
                //  Wierd shit error (only number, no message)
                //  Happens on 2 Win2K Prof with CheckPoint's
client...
                oObj.ERRNO = 5;
                oObj.ERRMSG = "Wierd one (ERROR# -2147418111)...";
                return oObj;
            default :
                //  Whatever else the cause may be...
                oObj.ERRNO = e.number;
                oObj.ERRMSG = e.description;
                return oObj;
        }
    }

    var oEnm_1 = new Enumerator(oOSset);
    var oEnm_2;

    for (; !oEnm_1.atEnd(); oEnm_1.moveNext()) {
        oEnm_2 = new Enumerator(oEnm_1.item().Properties_);

        for (; !oEnm_2.atEnd(); oEnm_2.moveNext()) {
            //  Pick only some of available properties (and ignores
the rest):
            switch (oEnm_2.item().Name) {
                case "CSName" :
                    oObj.Computer = oEnm_2.item().Value;
                    continue;
                case "Caption" :
                    oObj.OSname = oEnm_2.item().Value;
                    oObj.OStype =
(/Server/i).test(oEnm_2.item().Value)? "S":"W"
                    continue;
                case "Version" :
                    oObj.OSver = oEnm_2.item().Value;
                    continue;
                case "ServicePackMajorVersion" :
                    oObj.SPver = oEnm_2.item().Value;
                    continue;
                case "WindowsDirectory" :
                    oObj.WinDir = oEnm_2.item().Value;
                    continue;
                case "SystemDirectory" :
                    oObj.SysDir = oEnm_2.item().Value;
                    continue;
                case "TotalVisibleMemorySize" :
                    oObj.RAM = Math.round(oEnm_2.item().Value/1024);
                    continue;
                case "BootDevice" :
                    oObj.BootDev = oEnm_2.item().Value;
                    continue;
                case "SystemDevice" :
                    oObj.SysDev = oEnm_2.item().Value;
                    continue;
                default :
                    continue;
            }
        }
    }

    return oObj;                                        //  >>>

}

Branimir



From jan at jandecaluwe.com  Mon Jul 28 02:16:26 2003
From: jan at jandecaluwe.com (Jan Decaluwe)
Date: 27 Jul 2003 23:16:26 -0700
Subject: Checking whether bool is a type
References: <3F2442B2.E660E97@jandecaluwe.com> <FH-dnQC8AsEa2rmiXTWJiQ@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <2e5a8637.0307272216.5adba17d@posting.google.com>

"Terry Reedy" <tjreedy at udel.edu> wrote in message 
> 
> If all you care about is differentiating between 2.2 and 2.3, yes.
> But this raises NameError, I believe, on earlier verisons without
> 'bool' builtin.  What is wrong with using sys.version[:3] >= '2.3'?
> (Anyone - has sys.version always been around?)

Nothing - I do a general version check like that on 2.2
because I need generators. 

I was writing unit tests that specifically tests features that
I can only support when bool is a type. I found it clearer
to directly test for that.

Regards, Jan

--
Jan Decaluwe - Resources bvba
Losbergenlaan 16, B-3010 Leuven, Belgium
mailto:jan at jandecaluwe.com
http://jandecaluwe.com



From tim.one at comcast.net  Fri Jul  4 15:38:01 2003
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 15:38:01 -0400
Subject: A possible bug in python threading/time module?
In-Reply-To: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCIEMCEMAB.tim.one@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCKEOBEMAB.tim.one@comcast.net>

[Tim]
> Turns out that the Windows implementation of the Python C API function
> PyThread_start_new_thread() contained several "laziness" errors
>
> ...
>
> I'm testing putative fixes on a Win98 box and don't see any hangs any
> more. However, with more than about 3000 threads,
>
>     thread.error: can't start new thread
>
> gets raised because MS's _beginthread() fails (with errno == EAGAIN ==
> "there are too many threads").

FYI, these fixes have been checked in and will be part of 2.3 final (and
2.2.4, if that's ever released).

The maximum number of threads you can have alive simultaneously on 32-bit
Windows in an all-default Python build is actually about 2000.  This is
because each thread gets a megabyte of stack space by default, and 2048
threads would entirely exhaust the 31-bit user virtual address space just
for thread stacks.  If you want to know more about that, Google on

    CreateThread default stack size

The top hit is to the current relevant MSDN docs.





From faizan at jaredweb.com  Thu Jul 31 14:23:23 2003
From: faizan at jaredweb.com (Fazer)
Date: 31 Jul 2003 11:23:23 -0700
Subject: Python vs. Perl vs. PHP?
References: <7b454334.0307281002.41dae81b@posting.google.com>	<bg3qkk$lmr$05$1@news.t-online.com>	<FzRVa.11353$R14.4280@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk>	<7b454334.0307301611.1b40ff11@posting.google.com> <mailman.1059640670.9792.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7b454334.0307311023.28900d57@posting.google.com>

Gerhard H?ring <gh at ghaering.de> wrote in message news:<mailman.1059640670.9792.python-list at python.org>...
> Fazer wrote:
> > [...]  I am basically looking for a FAST
> > alternative to PHP meaning the responce time is fast.  Do you think
> > that Python with using the CGI module is a good solution?
> 
> No, CGI is not a good solution in this case, no matter what the language 
> (except those perverts who use something like C with dietlibc for this).
> 
> The base technology to make web requests fast in Python is something 
> like mod_python or a Python application server. On top of this I'd 
> recommend you use a Python web framework, of which there are numerous 
> ones. The hard part is to evaluate them and choose one.
> 
> FWIW I'm currently using Quixote running with mod_scgi against Apache, 
> mostly because I was fed up with the (lack of) Webware documentation, 
> which I tried first.
> 
> -- Gerhard


Thanks for the reply!  I think I am going to give mod_python a try. 
Would I have to be root to install mod_python?  Because that's one of
my biggest concerns.  I don't have root and I don't want to work on my
windows machine since I am kind of more comfortable working on a Linux
platform.

Basically, most of my Python scripts would just be accessing the MySQL
database and just printing out various data.



From domma at procoders.net  Thu Jul 10 07:35:17 2003
From: domma at procoders.net (Achim Domma)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 13:35:17 +0200
Subject: PYTHON TO ANSYS
References: <mailman.1057796495.19578.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bejj1m$e8h$00$1@news.t-online.com>

"satish k.chimakurthi" <skchim0 at engr.uky.edu> wrote in message
news:mailman.1057796495.19578.python-list at python.org...
>        Can anyone of you tell me if there is any way of interfacing ANSYS,
> which is a commercial software to python. I would like to have some sample
> codes which were written to interface solvers both commercial and
in-house.

I don't know ANSYS but such softwares have usually also a C/C++ API. In that
case you could use for example boost.python (or one of the other tools like
SWIG) to build a python wrapper around the C/C++ API.

regards,
Achim






From http  Fri Jul 25 16:35:49 2003
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 25 Jul 2003 13:35:49 -0700
Subject: file.close()
References: <edITa.131868$Ph3.17333@sccrnsc04> <mailman.1059052897.16526.python-list@python.org> <7xhe5b82ip.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <bfrecu$tl8$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <7xr84e9wey.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) writes:
> >"done" here is a generic method that gets called on exiting a "with"
> >block.  
> First reaction == +1, but some questions...
> 
> 1) Is f.done() really necessary? I.e., doesn't an explicit del f
>    take care of it if the object has been coded with a __del__
>    method? I.e., the idea was to get the effect of CPython's
>    immediate effective del on ref count going to zero, right?

The ref count might not be zero.  Something inside the "with" block
might make a new reference and leave it around.

> 2) how about with two files (or other multiple resources)?
> 
>     with f1,f2 = file('f1'), file('f2'):
>         [do stuff with f1 & f2]
> 
> What is the canonical expansion?

I think f1.done and f2.done should both get called.

> Also, what about the attribute version, i.e.,
> 
>     ob.f = file(frob)
>     try:
>       [do stuff with ob.f]
>     finally:
>       del ob.f # calls f.__del__, which calls/does f.close()
> 
> I.e., ob.f = something could raise an exception (e.g., a read-only property)
> *after* file(frob) has succeeded. So I guess the easiest would be to limit
> the left hand side to plain names... 

The assignment should be inside the try.  If I had it on the outside
before, that was an error.



From mis6 at pitt.edu  Thu Jul  3 10:52:44 2003
From: mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato)
Date: 3 Jul 2003 07:52:44 -0700
Subject: cooperation of buitlin methods usingtsuper
References: <bduh36$rgn$1@news.sns-felb.debis.de> <2259b0e2.0307020855.478300c2@posting.google.com> <be0lic$rgn$2@news.sns-felb.debis.de>
Message-ID: <2259b0e2.0307030652.697001dd@posting.google.com>

> In <2259b0e2.0307020855.478300c2 at posting.google.com> Michele Simionato wrote:
> > Matthias Oberlaender <matthias.oberlaender at REMOVE.daimlerchrysler.com> 
> wrote in message news:<bduh36$rgn$1 at news.sns-felb.debis.de>...> I would like  
> to adopt the cooperation paradigm in conjunction with builtin 
> > > methods and operators, such as len, iter, +, * etc. 
> > 
> > Fine.
> > 
> > > But the direct approach does not work with the current implementation of 
> > > super. For example, 'len(super(Y, y)' will always result in 'len() of 
> > > unsized object'.
> > 
> > Of course, it must give an error! I think you do not understand how 
> > super works. But don't worry, that's quite common ;)
> 
> Oh, wait a minute. I think this "of course" is a bit presumptuous. 

Uhm... I do realize now that what I wrote sounds quite presumptuous
indeed.
It was not my intention. The "of course" refers to the current
implementation
of ``super`` which does not do what you ask for. To me this was well
known
because of recent threads on the subject by Bjorn Pettersen:

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&frame=right&th=a385e6aa839a9538&seekm=2259b0e2.0304210750.5eaf5df0%40posting.google.com#link1

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&threadm=2259b0e2.0304300625.4e0ebace%40posting.google.com&rnum=3&prev=/groups%3Fhl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DISO-8859-1%26q%3Dsuper%2Bpettersen%26meta%3Dgroup%253Dcomp.lang.python.*

You see that for sure you are not the only one who is confused about
``super`` and there are dark corners about it. I myself do not know
nothing about its
implementation.

> > 
> > I think you should re-read the documentation and
> > google on the newsgroup for 'super'. The use case
> > for super is in multiple inheritance, as in this example:
> > 
> > class B(object):
> >     def __len__(self):
> >       print 'called B.__len__'   return 1111
> >     
> > class C(B):
> >   def __len__(self):
> >       print 'called C.__len__'
> >       return super(C,self).__len__()
> 
> This is exactly the style of syntax I want to avoid! I'd rather write more 
> concisely 'len(super(C,self))'.  

I see now what's your point, which is the same of Pettersen: why 

>>> class B(object):
	def __len__(self): return 1111
>>> class C(B): pass
...
>>> c=C()
>>> super(C,c).__len__()
1111

works, whereas

>>> len(super(C,c))
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<pyshell#7>", line 1, in ?
    len(super(C,c))
TypeError: len() of unsized object

does not work? As you say, the reason is that

> at least in Python 2.2.1, its is 
> a matter of fact that builtins/special method names are treated differently 
> from ordinary class methods in conjunction with super objects. Do you agree? 
> My implementation of super seems to fix this gap. Perhaps there are some 
> other people who would appreciate that too. Or are there good 
> logical/conceptual reasons againts it? This is what I would like to know.

BTW, the same is true for Python2.3b2. I always use the longest form
of ``super``,so this problems does not bother me, nevertheless I
understand
your point.

I think you should submit the issue to python-dev; maybe there are
technical reasons such that it is necessary to treat special methods
differently and this cannot be avoided. In such a case the
documentation should report that
only the long form ``super(C,c).__len__()`` is correct and that users
should
not use ``len(super(C,c))`` (idem for other special methods).

I would also submit a bug report on sourceforge, since at the best
this is
a documentation bug. It does not seem to have been reported before and
has
already bitten at least two persons on c.l.py., therefore it should be
made
known to the developers  


                 Michele



From daniel at dittmar.net  Wed Jul  9 18:10:21 2003
From: daniel at dittmar.net (Daniel Dittmar)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 00:10:21 +0200
Subject: Shared vs static link performance hit --and Windows?
In-Reply-To: <k7clgvoqjur1f10mosue3os74vv7nd34hi@4ax.com>
References: <k7clgvoqjur1f10mosue3os74vv7nd34hi@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <bei3sc$qb8$1@news.eusc.inter.net>

Christos TZOTZIOY Georgiou wrote:
> I might say something stupid since I am not an "expert" on Windows
> architectures, but would it be feasible (and useful) to build a static
> python.exe on windows?  Or is it that there would be no difference
> performance-wise in the final interpreter?

On windows, DLLs (and .pyd) can only call function in other DLLs, not in 
the EXE they are called from. So building a statically linked python 
would make it impossible to load dynamically .pyd files.

OT: One could of course change the Python extending API so that every 
extension function gets a pointer to the interpreter instances and all 
API functions are members of the interpreter object. This adds an 
additional indirection, so it wouldn't help the performace. On the plus 
side, this would make it at least feasable that extenions are binary 
compatible to newer Pythons the same way they often are on Unix.

Daniel




From hanzspam at yahoo.com.au  Fri Jul  4 11:03:27 2003
From: hanzspam at yahoo.com.au (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Hannu_Kankaanp=E4=E4?=)
Date: 4 Jul 2003 08:03:27 -0700
Subject: 'For' loop symmetry with list comprehensions.
References: <840592e1.0307021036.508d7d7d@posting.google.com> <LUYMa.5841$eF3.721551@news20.bellglobal.com>
Message-ID: <840592e1.0307040703.507fed3c@posting.google.com>

"Sean Ross" <sross at connectmail.carleton.ca> wrote in message news:<LUYMa.5841$eF3.721551 at news20.bellglobal.com>...
> (being symmetrical) we should also be able to write:
> 
> >>> msgs = []
> >>> for x in words:
> ...  for y in otherwords:
> ...   msgs.append("%s %s"%(x,y))
> ...
> >>> msgs
> ['hello foo', 'hello bar', 'bonjour foo', 'bonjour bar']
> 
> 
> as follows:
> 
> msgs = []
> for x in words for y in otherwords:
>     msgs.append("%s %s"%(x,y))
> 
> 
> If you really want symmetry, well, this is symmetrical. Do you want this as
> well?
> 
> -0
> Sean

Ok, I see. Just because new for syntax had to be added to work on one
line in list comprehensions doesn't mean that rest of the language
should be polluted with the one-liner syntax too. So it wasn't that
good of an idea after all :P



From nospam at here.com  Sun Jul 13 17:15:10 2003
From: nospam at here.com (Richard Townsend)
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 22:15:10 +0100
Subject: sample code from John Grayson's "Python and Tkinter Programning" book
References: <3f11c0d5.19274484@news.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <1058130815.16008.0@demeter.uk.clara.net>

"Ken Erickson" <kaericksonsprint at earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:3f11c0d5.19274484 at news.earthlink.net...
> Does anyone know if the example code in John Grayson's book is
> available online?  He has some interesting examples and I really don't
> want to spend hours re-typing his work (too many typo's late at
> night).  I rather spend time walking through the code via the
> debugger.
>
> TIA.

Try:
http://www.manning.com/getpage.html?project=grayson&filename=Source.html





From rxs141 at cwru.edu  Sun Jul 20 14:50:29 2003
From: rxs141 at cwru.edu (Ravi)
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 14:50:29 -0400
Subject: "Pure Python" MySQL module like Net::MySQL
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1058706631.15074.python-list@python.org>
References: <bfddmi$7nk$1@eeyore.INS.cwru.edu> <mailman.1058706631.15074.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bfeo9h$20o$1@eeyore.INS.cwru.edu>

Gerhard H?ring wrote:
  >
> Is there any particular reason why you'd need such a beast instead of 
> just using MySQLdb?
> 
I'm developing for cell phones/PDA's using Jython, because Java is 
available. Yet, a proper C compiler is not, so libmysql cannot be 
compiled. I will see if I can put a wrapper on the Java MySQL connector 
to make it accessible in Jython.

Thanks for your help,

Ravi




From florian.proff.schulze at gmx.net  Tue Jul 22 07:13:29 2003
From: florian.proff.schulze at gmx.net (Florian Schulze)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 13:13:29 +0200
Subject: Python Mystery Theatre -- Episode 3:  Extend this
References: <tH5Ta.24164$7O.4744@nwrdny01.gnilink.net>
Message-ID: <oprsplgrf8ttxc4i@news.t-online.de>

On Tue, 22 Jul 2003 07:27:21 GMT, Raymond Hettinger <vze4rx4y at verizon.net> 
wrote:

> ACT I ---------------------
> def real(z):
> return hasattr(z, 'real') and z.real or z
> def imag(z):
> return hasattr(z, 'imag') and z.imag or 0
> for z in 3+4j, 5, 0+6j, 7.0, 8+0j, 9L:
> print real(z), imag(z)

Duh, I had to look at the output, but after that it was obvious:
For 0+6j, hasattr(z, 'real') is true, but t.real is false so z is printed.
For imag it's no problem, as it's 0 either way.

> ACT II ---------------------
> uniq = {}
> for k in (10, 'ten', 10+0j, u'ten', 'Ten', 't'+'en', 10.0):
> uniq(k) = 1
> print len(uniq)

My prediction is between 5 and 7 depending on the hash values for numbers.
Uhh, 3 !?! So numbers and strings generate a hash just by their value. And 
the unicode string has the same hash as a normal string if just ascii is 
used. Should have been obvious.
ps: it should be uniq[k] = 1 or the output would have been a traceback, 
maybe this was intended ;)

> ACT III ---------------------
> s = 'abracadabra'
> for i in [3, 2, 1, 0]:
> print s[i:], s[-i:]

Prediction:
acadabra bra
racadabra ra
bracadabra a
abracadabra abracadabra

Result:
acadabra bra
racadabra ra
bracadabra a
abracadabra abracadabra

Yep! s[-0:] is the same as s[0:].

> ACT IV ---------------------
> pets = list('cat ')
> pets += 'dog '
> pets.extend('fish ')
> print pets + 'python'

I would say this raises a TypeError.
But it's at the print not at pets += 'dog ', so the string is used as a 
sequence here.

> INTERMISSION (with output included, oh yeah! ------------
>>>> import operator
>>>> 1 - reduce(operator.add, [1e-7]* 10**7)
> 2.4983004554002264e-010

Uh! Binary representation of floating point strikes again.

> ACT V ---------------------
> class Bin:
> numitems = 0
> contents = []
>
> def add(self, item):
> self.numitems += 1
> self.contents += [item]
>
> laundry = Bin()
> groceries = Bin()
>
> laundry.add('shirt')
> groceries.add('bananas')
> groceries.add('nuts')
> laundry.add('socks')
> groceries.add('pretzels')
>
> print laundry.numitems, laundry.contents
> print groceries.numitems, groceries.contents

Prediction:
2 ['shirt','bananas','nuts','socks','pretzels']
3 ['shirt','bananas','nuts','socks','pretzels']

Result:
2 ['shirt','bananas','nuts','socks','pretzels']
3 ['shirt','bananas','nuts','socks','pretzels']

Contents is a class variable and not unique to an instance.

> ACT VI -----------------------------------------
> print "What is the technical name for this algorithm or transformation?"
> a = range(0, 100, 10)
> import random
> random.shuffle(a)
> print "Input:", a
> swaps = 0
> for i in range(len(a)):
> for j in range(i+1, len(a)):
> if a[i] > a[j]:
> i, j, a[i], a[j], swaps = j, i, a[j], a[i], swaps+1
> print "Output:", a
> print "Workload;", swaps

I would say it's bubble sort, but it doesn't work and I don't yet 
understand why.
Oh, wait, i and j are assigned first and then a[i] is the a[j] from before 
and the other way around. But after testing I found out that i and j should 
never be swapped, as this disturbs the inner loop, because i is wrong then.

My guess for the real bugs:
ACT I
ACT III
ACT V

Florian Schulze



From CousinStanley at hotmail.com  Tue Jul  1 01:17:43 2003
From: CousinStanley at hotmail.com (Cousin Stanley)
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 22:17:43 -0700
Subject: "Newbie" questions - "unique" sorting ?
References: <vgu1fvgj3klsvvlnoedt151mh7otc1ajqn@4ax.com> <bct498$mnjrt$1@ID-130333.news.dfncis.de> <8da5fvsnidpjtblgfj4484spso2t9e6r95@4ax.com> <bcuqp3$nl9um$1@ID-130333.news.dfncis.de> <rt97fv80g2dguti1okoevk3kmvo6oh14vt@4ax.com> <bd17hu$niu1d$1@ID-130333.news.dfncis.de> <u7lcfv85lvutqg8tspgua4qc0454gsd2ie@4ax.com> <bd8gsc$pt2lr$1@ID-130333.news.dfncis.de> <hi5jfvof9sd32b55c8smgibpufhj0akcdo@4ax.com> <bdchsu$rn1p1$1@ID-130333.news.dfncis.de> <n4p1gvkkojnabfg5tteqmkrjljj341c27c@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <bdr5eh$ul223$1@ID-130333.news.dfncis.de>

| ...
| Bye the way Cousin Stanley I assume the numbers
| in the final result were how many times that string
| appeared in the input file ?
|
| A very interesting number to have.
|
| When I get time though I might "rem" (is that # ?) out
| that/those line/lines so that I have a second URL sorting
| python executable that doesn't include the numbers.
|
| Assuming I can work out which one(s) to disable !

John ...

Getting rid of the word_count
isn't too bad ....

Find the following code block in word_list.py ....

for this_word in list_words :

    word_count = dict_words[ this_word ]

    str_out    = '%6d %s %s' % ( word_count , this_word , NL )

    file_out.write( str_out )


Change the above 4 lines to the following 2 ....

for this_word in list_words :

    file_out.write( this_word + NL )

Save the changed file to word_list2.py ....


As an alternative, since the words you are interested in
in this application are actually URLs, you might want
to generate actual clickable HTML links ....

for this_word in list_words :

    file_out.write( '<a href="' + this_word + '">' + NL )

    file_out.write( this_word + NL )

    file_out.write( '</a>' + NL + NL )

Save the changed file to word_list3.py ....

I haven't tested either of the above changes,
but this should provide some ideas ....

-- 
Cousin Stanley
Human Being
Phoenix, Arizona





From max at alcyone.com  Mon Jul  7 03:38:03 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 00:38:03 -0700
Subject: anything new on the ternary operator?
References: <mailman.1057533670.9800.python-list@python.org>
	 <%G4Oa.22187$Ey6.10119@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net> <mailman.1057555031.29406.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3F09235B.6F7DE56@alcyone.com>

Andreas Jung wrote:

> Please stop the discussion. The ternary operator is dead (which is a
> very
> good thing)
> because GvR made the decision.

There's not much doubt that the conditional operator will not be making
it into Python in the future, but just because the BDFL has made a
decree (although a significantly delayed one), it's a little naive to
think that discussion of it will not continue.  This clause was in the
PEP ("the subject better not come up again"), but I'm not sure how this
clause will really have much effect.  Obviously no more PEPs on the
subject will be accepted, and needless to say it won't be considered by
the development team in the future, but it seems weird to suggest that
because a PEP came up, was (after many months) indirectly rejected in a
presentation (the PEP is not even updated to show its rejected status),
that all users are precluded from discussing in the future.

Mind you, such discussion will not be very constructive, but just
saying, "Welp, it's not going to be added, nobody talk about it ever
again" is not going to be very effective when new people come in all the
time and, one must admit, at least some segment of the user community
would have liked the feature.

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ I am a gentlemen:  I live by robbing the poor.
\__/  George Bernard Shaw



From intentionally at blank.co.uk  Mon Jul 14 22:16:08 2003
From: intentionally at blank.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 03:16:08 +0100
Subject: anything like C++ references?
References: <b8c3hvsesjoumiboobml3nsnajtha99mp1@4ax.com> <mailman.1058129901.28248.python-list@python.org> <plk3hv0s1m2egf4s34jo6vjedk0q8r2mu9@4ax.com> <hflQa.48826$wk6.12216@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net> <rp94hvc8fg6h91oe7ctqq9jn9ku3nlud1k@4ax.com> <slrnbh6fbc.72v.kamikaze@kuoi.asui.uidaho.edu>
Message-ID: <tdo6hvo40qaga46ekamfe65opn2aaa9b41@4ax.com>

On 14 Jul 2003 23:31:56 GMT, kamikaze at kuoi.asui.uidaho.edu (Mark
'Kamikaze' Hughes) wrote:

>  It looks like you've almost reached understanding, though you've been
>given a bad start with a very idiosyncratic and monolingual
>understanding of what "computer science" teaches--that was certainly not
>in the classes I took, but apparently yours were different.

Really. My computer science lessons were taught in a way that
respected the source of most of the theory in mathematics -
algorithms, Church's lambda calculus and that kind of stuff.

What did your lessons teach?

>  Since every operation in Python operates on pointers, there's no use
>in having a special syntax for it.  You don't need all the * and & and
>-> line noise.

The point of the thread is not pointers - they are a side issue.

When you use variables, you are using a concept from mathematics. In
mathematics, variables bind to values. All values are immutable.

Python binds variables to objects, not values. For immutable objects
this is an unimportant implementation detail. For mutable objects, it
breaks the mathematical principle of variables being bound to values.

>  Stop trying to make Python into C/C++, and you'll be happier with it.
>Or stop using Python, if you really don't like the design philosophy.
>There are plenty of Algol-derived languages out there.  PHP and
>especially Perl are more C-like in their internal logic, and you might
>find them more pleasant.

This is bogus.

I don't want Python to become C or C++. I want Python to respect
principles that come from mathematics and computer science. Not for
reasons of theory pedanticism, but because the current system can and
does regularly cause confusion and errors.

The fact that Python claims to be a very high level language, and yet
you have to worry about the binding of variables to objects -
something that should be a low level implementation detail - has very
real everyday implications.

Respect the idea of variables binding to values and suddenly the need
for pointers becomes more obvious. You cannot abuse mutable objects to
fake pointer functionality (another everyday fact of Python
programming) if the binding of variables to values (rather than just
objects) is respected.




From intentionally at blank.co.uk  Sun Jul 13 11:11:37 2003
From: intentionally at blank.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 16:11:37 +0100
Subject: anything like C++ references?
References: <000301c348c7$3c501980$21795418@dell1700> <jf22hvotj4n0q5tpkg627e3jv61norf93n@4ax.com> <3F11106A.65FDA8F2@alcyone.com> <iqm2hvs77lhe1m71v9b579070khbf0uv0a@4ax.com> <berqqd$ad5$1@panix3.panix.com>
Message-ID: <brs2hv8edfv0d1fch9mha8otuulajnkh0g@4ax.com>

On 13 Jul 2003 10:37:01 -0400, aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) wrote:

>In article <iqm2hvs77lhe1m71v9b579070khbf0uv0a at 4ax.com>,
>Stephen Horne  <intentionally at blank.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>One of the few things I hate about Python is that mutable objects are
>>implicitly shared using a reference system whereas immutable objects
>>are not. 
>
>Well, that's incorrect.  *ALL* Python objects are implicitly shared with
>bindings.  The difference is whether updating the value referenced by a
>target requires *re*binding the target or simply updating an object.

Fine - nit-pick.

All you have proven is that it is the distinction between types that
get re-bound and those that don't (rather than the use of references)
that is unnecessarily confusing and error prone.

The wart remains, even if my description was wrong. And even that is a
dubious claim.

A Python user is interested in how an object behaves - not how it is
internally implemented in the interpreter. Immutable objects don't
behave as references - the internal use of references for immutable
objects is basically a lazy copying optimisation and, apart from
performace and a couple of other technicalities (e.g. the 'is'
operator), has no relevance. Certainly it has no relevance to the
point I was making.




From colinsm.spam-me-not at picsel.com  Thu Jul 10 13:25:52 2003
From: colinsm.spam-me-not at picsel.com (Colin S. Miller)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 18:25:52 +0100
Subject: UTF-16-LE and split() under MS-Windows XP
In-Reply-To: <m33chf327s.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
References: <uimgeb.ih5.ln@195.171.216.1> <m33chf327s.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <pb7keb.1ep.ln@195.171.216.1>

Martin v. L?wis wrote:
> "Colin S. Miller" <colinsm.spam-me-not at picsel.com> writes:
> 
> 
>>Where have I gone wrong, and what is the correct method
>>to verify the BOM mark?
> 
> 
> readline is not supported in the UTF-16 codec. You have to read the
> entire file, and perform .split. Looking at the BOM should not be
> necessary, as the UTF-16 codec will do so on its own.
Is there any reason why readline() isn't supported?
AFAIK,
the prefered UNICODE standard line endings are
0x2028 (Line seperator)
0x2029 (Paragraph seperator)
but 0x10 (Line feed) and 0x13 (carriage return) are
also supported for legacy support.


I'm using
file.read().splitlines() now, but am slightly worried
about perfomance/memory when there a few hundered lines.

TIA,
Colin S. Miller


> 
> Regards,
> Martin
> 




From Jeffrey.S.Whitaker at noaa.gov  Sat Jul  5 12:26:34 2003
From: Jeffrey.S.Whitaker at noaa.gov (Jeffrey.S.Whitaker at noaa.gov)
Date: Sat, 05 Jul 2003 16:26:34 GMT
Subject: Bewildered graphs
In-Reply-To: <3F06BF7C.8DC6A978@noaa.gov>
References: <3F06BF7C.8DC6A978@noaa.gov>
Message-ID: <Pine.OSX.4.56.0307051025050.1718@whitaker>

On Sat, 5 Jul 2003, Mark Fenbers wrote:

> I am investigating Python for the sake of ultimately generating hydrographs
> (such as this: http://ahps.erh.noaa.gov/iln/ahps/RiverDat/gifs/prgo1.png)
> on-the-fly from a web server cluster.  I have not used Python previously and do
> not yet know if Python is very useful for this or if I am wasting my time.
>
> Quite frankly, I am a little bewildered.  Not only is there Python, but there
> are many extention modules which cloud up my view as to what I will need.
> There's Scientific Python, which sounds promising, but there's also SciPy which
> in itself has gnuplot, xplt and plt modules.  I know enough about gnuplot to
> know that it won't meet my needs because I need to be able to shade regions
> above certain values such as done in yellow on the example hydrograph (the link
> above).  It also doesn't have many font options or the ability to place an image
> such as the NOAA logo.
>
> Can someone kindly guide me as to what I would most likely need to replicate the
> graph shown via the link above?
>

Mark:

NCL (http://www.cgd.ucar.edu/nclapps/gsn/) will do what you need.  I've
written a simple python module that allows you to embed NCL scripts in
python code (http://www.cdc.noaa.gov/~jsw/python/pyncl.html).

http://www.ccsm.ucar.edu/csm/support/CSM_Graphics/index.shtml has some
nice NCL plotting examples.

-Jeff


-- 
Jeffrey S. Whitaker         Phone : (303)497-6313
NOAA/OAR/CDC  R/CDC1        FAX   : (303)497-6449
325 Broadway                Web   : http://www.cdc.noaa.gov/~jsw
Boulder, CO, USA 80305-3328 Office: Skaggs Research Cntr 1D-124



From davidcfox at post.harvard.edu  Tue Jul 29 17:36:36 2003
From: davidcfox at post.harvard.edu (David C. Fox)
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 21:36:36 GMT
Subject: inverse of the zip function
In-Reply-To: <CvadnbbHD-ADebuiXTWJjA@comcast.com>
References: <9sBVa.12998$o%2.6289@sccrnsc02> <CvadnbbHD-ADebuiXTWJjA@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <mNBVa.13044$Ho3.1747@sccrnsc03>

Terry Reedy wrote:

> "David C. Fox" <davidcfox at post.harvard.edu> wrote in message
> news:9sBVa.12998$o%2.6289 at sccrnsc02...
> 
>>Is there a function which takes a list of tuples and returns a list
> 
> of
> 
>>lists made up of the first element of each tuple, the second element
> 
> of
> 
>>each tuple, etc.?
>>
>>In other words, the the inverse of the built-in zip function?
> 
> 
> Go to
> http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&group=comp.lang.python
> enter 'zip inverse', and check search Python only.
> 
> TJR
> 
> 

Thanks.  I've gotten so used to reading this group with Mozilla Mail 
that I forgot about google groups.

David




From adechert at earthlink.net  Mon Jul 21 12:56:20 2003
From: adechert at earthlink.net (Alan Dechert)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 16:56:20 GMT
Subject: Python voting demo discussion
References: <KRMSa.112426$Io.9623657@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <mailman.1058779892.1544.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <UWUSa.14910$Mc.1121637@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>

"Ian Bicking" <ianb at colorstudy.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.1058779892.1544.python-list at python.org...
>  Python is quite appropriate for these sorts of
> changes, certainly moreso than C and C++, and arguably C# and Java.
>
Thanks again, Ian.  We will use Python for the demo.  It will be on
sourceforge.net momentarily.

Alan Dechert





From richie at entrian.com  Thu Jul 31 08:39:47 2003
From: richie at entrian.com (Richie Hindle)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 13:39:47 +0100
Subject: Python speed vs csharp
In-Reply-To: <rkdc7poiachh.1x4jtxjzaf3zo.dlg@40tude.net>
References: <rkdc7poiachh.1x4jtxjzaf3zo.dlg@40tude.net>
Message-ID: <4t1iiv8ecaf64b4832sr5aro3lr5588l9g@4ax.com>

[Mike]
> is there anything that can be done to get Python's speed close
> to the speed of C#?

Using Pyrex takes a million loops from 7.1 seconds to 1.3 seconds for me:

------------------------------- mike.pyx -------------------------------

cdef extern from "math.h":
    double exp(double x)

def erfc(x):
    cdef double f_x, p, a1, a2, a3, a4, a5, t
    
    f_x = x
    
    p  =  0.3275911
    a1 =  0.254829592
    a2 = -0.284496736
    a3 =  1.421413741
    a4 = -1.453152027
    a5 =  1.061405429
    
    t = 1.0 / (1.0 + p*f_x)
    return ( (a1 + (a2 + (a3 + (a4 + a5*t)*t)*t)*t)*t ) * exp(-(f_x**2))
    

------------------------------- setup.py -------------------------------

# Run with "python setup.py build"
from distutils.core import setup
from distutils.extension import Extension
from Pyrex.Distutils import build_ext
setup(
  name = "Mike",
  ext_modules=[ 
    Extension("mike", ["mike.pyx"])
    ],
  cmdclass = {'build_ext': build_ext}
)


------------------------------- test.py -------------------------------

# This takes about 1.3 seconds on my machine.
import time
from mike import erfc

if __name__ == '__main__':
    start = time.time()
    for i in xrange(1000000):
        erfc(123.456)
    print time.time() - start


-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Given that a million calls to "def x(): pass" take 0.9 seconds, the actual
calculation time is about 0.4 seconds, down from 6.2.  Not as fast as your
C# results, but a lot better than you had before.

Using Psyco dropped from 7.1 seconds to 5.4 - not great, but not bad for
two lines of additional code:

    import psyco
    psyco.bind(erfc)

Psyco currently only works on Intel-x86 compatible processors.

Hope that helps,

-- 
Richie Hindle
richie at entrian.com





From ben at dadsetan.com  Wed Jul  9 16:09:11 2003
From: ben at dadsetan.com (Behrang Dadsetan)
Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 22:09:11 +0200
Subject: Deleting specific characters from a string
In-Reply-To: <donn-5F0489.12294309072003@nntp2.u.washington.edu>
References: <begfb3$7j6$1@online.de> <5ab0af73.0307091044.254f5aab@posting.google.com> <donn-5F0489.12294309072003@nntp2.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <behssg$k5l$1@online.de>

Donn Cave wrote:
> In article <5ab0af73.0307091044.254f5aab at posting.google.com>,
>  MatthewS at HeyAnita.com (Matt Shomphe) wrote:
>>Maybe a new method should be added to the str class, called "remove". 
>>It would take a list of characters and remove them from the string:
> Check out the translate function - that's what its optional
> deletions argument is for.

 >>> str = 'You are Ben at orange?enter&your&code'
 >>> str.translate(string.maketrans('',''), '@&')
and
 >>> str.replace('&', '').replace('@', '')
are also ugly...

The first version is completely unreadable. I guess my initial example 
''.join([ c for c in str if c not in ('@', '&')]) was easier to read 
than the translate (who would guess -without having to peek in the 
documentation of translate- that that line deletes @ and &?!)  but I am 
not sure ;)

while the second becomes acceptable. The examples you gave me use the 
string module.
I think I read somewhere that the methods of the object should rather be 
used than the string module. Is that right?

Thanks anyhow, I will go for the replace(something, '') method.
Ben.




From FBatista at uniFON.com.ar  Mon Jul 14 14:54:54 2003
From: FBatista at uniFON.com.ar (Batista, Facundo)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 15:54:54 -0300
Subject: some questions
Message-ID: <A128D751272CD411BC9200508BC2194D03382BAD@escpl.tcp.com.ar>

The method string.split() returns a list:

>>> s = "This is an example"
>>> s.split()
['This', 'is', 'an', 'example']
>>> s
'This is an example'

Be warned that split *returns* a string, does *not* modifies the string
itself (as you can see above, s is still the original s).

As a tutorial, I love "Dive into Python".


.	Facundo





#- -----Mensaje original-----
#- De: Andreas Bauer [mailto:buki at bukis.org]
#- Enviado el: Lunes 14 de Julio de 2003 3:27 PM
#- Para: python-list at python.org
#- Asunto: some questions
#- 
#- 
#- Hi,
#- 
#- I need some information on how to deal with strings which I have
#- divided by using split(). I'm new to python and don't know how to
#- handle these split up strings. 
#- And I some one could recommend a good tutorial I would be very
#- glad. Can't hardly find any.
#- 
#- Thanks in advance.
#- 
#- Andreas
#- -- 
#- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
#- 




From tomas at fancy.org  Sun Jul 13 03:41:22 2003
From: tomas at fancy.org (Tom Plunket)
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 00:41:22 -0700
Subject: anything like C++ references?
References: <000301c348c7$3c501980$21795418@dell1700> <1058050617.28466.279.camel@lothlorien> <mailman.1058062578.6658.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <u432hvkg62vsoela63f45e5pj144ehf7qe@4ax.com>

Dave Brueck wrote:

> Your response above (that the normal thing to do in Python is 
> just return the modified value) made me wonder if most people are 
> asking about pass-by-reference not because they want pass-by- 
> reference, but because in C it's generally a nuisance to return 
> stuff from functions, especially multiple values, so you end up 
> learning about pointers and/or pass-by-reference.

In C++ it's trivial to return multiple values and pass-by-
reference is typically (at least, as far as I've seen) used to
pass immutables anyway, but sometimes it just seems like the
right tool for the job.

> IOW, if you could erase the influence of previous languages would 
> this FAQ become "how can I return multiple things from a 
> function" more often than it would become "how can I modify an 
> object from inside a function"?

That's a good idea, although I would have to say that multiple
return values typically means that your function is doing too
many things.  ;)

-tom!



From lbliss at dls.net  Thu Jul 10 09:31:47 2003
From: lbliss at dls.net (Lee)
Date: 10 Jul 2003 06:31:47 -0700
Subject: Python 2.2 build problems on AIX
References: <ebc0c915.0307090119.185e3b30@posting.google.com> <vgof6tpeol9neb@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <a12531ed.0307100531.17f2bf8e@posting.google.com>

Sac <sac at noreply.com> wrote in message news:<vgof6tpeol9neb at corp.supernews.com>...
> edadk wrote:
> 
> > Hi
> > 
> > I building Python on AIX using
> > 
> > make
> > 
> > However, I get some errors when building
> > 
> > readline
> > gdbm
> > 
> > and
> > 
> > -ltermcap
> > 
> > is missing. See below. Can those problems be fixed?
> > 
> > Erling
> > 
> > building 'readline' extension
> > cc_r -DNDEBUG -O -I.
> > -I/mnt/mds/metawrk/edanders/Python-2.2.3/./Include
> > -I/usr/local/include -I/mnt/mds/metawrk/edanders/Pytho
> > 2.2.3/Include -I/mnt/mds/metawrk/edanders/Python-2.2.3 -c
> > /mnt/mds/metawrk/edanders/Python-2.2.3/Modules/readline.c -o build/t
> 
> ...(Lines Deleted)
> 
> Greetings,
> 
> You may wish to grab some of these tools and utilities from IBM. Many
> Open Source packages are available. Project heading is Linux Toolbox
> for AIX.
> 
> Source and binaries are available from the following IBM website:
> ftp://ftp.software.ibm.com/aix/freeSoftware/aixtoolbox
> 
> Installation instructions are available from
> ftp://ftp.software.ibm.com/aix/freeSoftware/aixtoolbox/README.txt
> 
> Cheers...


You definitely want to install readline, gdbm, etc.  They are
available either on the Linux CD that came with AIX or from the ftp
site above.  I was able to complete the build once I installed the
termcap libraries from the AIX CDs.  From the smit install, search for
the string termcap.  It will find two filesets.  Install both and the
build should work.



From paddy3118 at netscape.netNOTthisBIT  Wed Jul 30 13:26:35 2003
From: paddy3118 at netscape.netNOTthisBIT (Donald 'Paddy' McCarthy)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 18:26:35 +0100
Subject: Misuse of <tab>
In-Reply-To: <3f27f0e3$1@news.broadpark.no>
References: <3f27f0e3$1@news.broadpark.no>
Message-ID: <icTVa.12632$R14.12228@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk>

Gisle Vanem wrote:
> I'm a .py newbie and fascinated by the simplicity of formatting.
> No need for {} as in Perl etc. But the misuse of <tab> that many
> .py writers do makes it hard to understand how a script operates.
> 
> E.g.
<<SNIP>>
> 
> Now, with an editor with different tab-settings it's difficult to see where
> the try statement belongs. In 'def main()' or in 'def foo()' ?
> I'm confused, please enlighten me.

The usual rule is to either:
	1) Don't use tabs for indentation at all. Or
	2) If you must use tabs, then always use just tabs/

If you have an editor that might automatically change several spaces to 
tabs then turn that feature off or don't use the editor.

Cheers, Pad.





From alanmk at hotmail.com  Fri Jul 18 05:45:56 2003
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 10:45:56 +0100
Subject: A challenge to the ASCII proponents.
References: <mailman.1058278343.23104.python-list@python.org> <bf167a$pvt$1@panix2.panix.com> <ufzl7rdno.fsf@online.no> <3F142A58.80426AA4@hotmail.com> <2259b0e2.0307161620.4a9353f1@posting.google.com> <Xns93BB246FDDBCFJanC@213.118.75.80> <3F168011.3AEB3EFC@hotmail.com> <3F172442.2040907@v.loewis.de>
Message-ID: <3F17C1D4.1A70703A@hotmail.com>

"Martin v. Loewis" wrote:

> So what do you think about this message?:
> 
> ????????????????
> 
> Look Ma, no markup. And not every character uses two bytes, either.
> And I can use Umlauts (??????) and Arabic (????????.????????????)
> if I want to.

Martin,

I can see from other people's messages that this has been successful
for some people with modern software.

However, it failed for me on my old Netscape 4.x Messenger. Which is
acceptable, I suppose, because I intentionally use ancient email and
usenet software. It is also worth noting that although my poor old
usenet client failed to display the sequence of characters, the
"Navigator" component to which it belongs correctly displayed the
greek text when fed Bengt's "gignooskoo.html" file (although it failed
on my xml snippet).

More worrying however is the failure of modern browsers to display the
characters when accessed through Google Groups.

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=3F172442.2040907%40v.loewis.de

I tried to view this in IE6.0 and Netscape 6.2, and all I saw was 
"?????s??".

Whereas that thread still shows my XML snippet intact, still
copy&paste-able.

kind regards,

-- 
alan kennedy
-----------------------------------------------------
check http headers here: http://xhaus.com/headers
email alan:              http://xhaus.com/mailto/alan



From tim.one at comcast.net  Thu Jul 31 22:49:28 2003
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 22:49:28 -0400
Subject: time, calendar, datetime, etc
In-Reply-To: <vij4ftc5psv054@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCKEHFEPAB.tim.one@comcast.net>

[John Roth]
> The datetime module is a great piece of work, but I wonder why it
> wasn't made more compatible with the time module? It would seem to
> be simple enough to provide a sequence interface so the object
> supports the 9-tuple directly (for either naive or tz-aware, pick
> one,) and also supports the same attributes as the objects in the
> time package.

The time module consists of thin wrappers around C's mish-mash of quirky,
platform-dependent time manipulation functions.  We eventually want to
pretend the time module never existed <0.9 wink>.  9-tuples are absurd.

> I also wonder why anyone made the choice to set the year origin at
> 1AD? That decision, by itself, makes it almost unusable for my hobby
> (astrological software, which is basically astronomical software
> with a different focus.)

The datetime design took place on a Zope Wiki:

    http://www.zope.org/Members/fdrake/DateTimeWiki/FrontPage

and Zope Corp funded the work.  If more astronomers used Zope, the outcome
may have been different.  As things were, fast field extraction for
formatting and fiddling, compact memory representation and pickles,
"practical" dates, fast compaison, and exact arithmetic were goals.  See
especially the SuggestedRequirements page in that Wiki.  Astronomers were
dissed in its first bullet <wink>.





From sybrenUSE at YOURthirdtower.imagination.com  Tue Jul 29 11:57:02 2003
From: sybrenUSE at YOURthirdtower.imagination.com (Sybren Stuvel)
Date: 29 Jul 2003 15:57:02 GMT
Subject: PyQt Help and Advice
References: <bg636k$408g$1@netnews.upenn.edu>
Message-ID: <slrnbid66l.7na.sybrenUSE@sybren.thirdtower.com>

Ilya Knizhnik enlightened us with:
> However since PyQt is rather new, I have not found much
> documentation on it, or examples in it.  The only useful
> tutorial/book I have found is at www.opendocspublishing.com/pyqt/
> but it is not always clear for someone with almost no GUI
> experience.

You might want to follow the QT tutorials that come with the QT
documentation. The best way to read the QT docs is through QT
Assistant. You can design GUIs with QT's 'designer' (it's called that
way, very original name) and convert the .ui files to .py files with
'pyuic'.

Sybren
-- 
The problem with the world is stupidity. Not saying there should be a
capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the
safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself? 



From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Fri Jul  4 14:08:10 2003
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 4 Jul 2003 14:08:10 -0400
Subject: A story about Python... sort of
References: <3f03f430$0$97222$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk> <Yg3Na.97773$R73.11565@sccrnsc04> <be2hsc$41l$1@panix3.panix.com> <87llve8fh3.fsf@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <be4fqa$1j2$1@panix3.panix.com>

In article <87llve8fh3.fsf at pobox.com>, John J. Lee <jjl at pobox.com> wrote:
>aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) writes:
>>
>> At the same time, more and more of those games are switching to using
>> C/C++ only for the rendering engine and using a scripting language (Lua
>> or Python) for the gameplay itself.
>
>Is this true of big-$ commercial games?  What sort of market share do
>high-level / interpreted languages have there?

Depends what you mean by big-$.  Humongous Entertainment has recently
switched to requiring Python for all new games.  Lua is even more
prevalent; see http://www.lua.org/uses.html
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

Usenet is not a democracy.  It is a weird cross between an anarchy and a
dictatorship.  



From belred1 at yahoo.com  Tue Jul 15 01:53:31 2003
From: belred1 at yahoo.com (Bryan)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 05:53:31 GMT
Subject: anything like C++ references?
References: <000301c348c7$3c501980$21795418@dell1700> <jf22hvotj4n0q5tpkg627e3jv61norf93n@4ax.com> <3F11106A.65FDA8F2@alcyone.com> <iqm2hvs77lhe1m71v9b579070khbf0uv0a@4ax.com> <berqqd$ad5$1@panix3.panix.com> <brs2hv8edfv0d1fch9mha8otuulajnkh0g@4ax.com> <8vd6hv0sdvoitccmnj4pdj66ss2vg4ii3n@4ax.com> <5ir6hvof9m5rjh6i3u992l91un21qtmsh4@4ax.com> <9iu6hv4r968o9s1n5fh887u2j7an94de4e@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <vFMQa.64990$Ph3.7100@sccrnsc04>

> In my view, Python does largely what I want it to do regardless
> of mathematical correctness.
>
> -tom!
>

wow... finally...beautifully said... concise... and i would wager this is
what most people think who feel at home with python.  and with this, i
declare this insane thread to be sys.exit()





From bgailer at alum.rpi.edu  Wed Jul 16 12:48:39 2003
From: bgailer at alum.rpi.edu (Bob Gailer)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 10:48:39 -0600
Subject: Stop Python from exiting upon error in Windows
In-Reply-To: <vh8uhni7490rfc@corp.supernews.com>
References: <vh6jmv2f767h8b@corp.supernews.com>
 <n2o6hvcahk7dlmn9t26tvis8umnfg1tdeo@4ax.com>
 <3F136BEA.5B56562@engcorp.com>
 <vh6v443q2fjab3@corp.supernews.com>
 <vh8agkdkcntn20@corp.supernews.com>
 <3F142B51.94C898BC@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20030716104024.027feca8@66.28.54.253>

At 03:03 PM 7/15/2003 -0700, Robert at AbilitySys.com wrote:

>The trouble there is that sys.argv[0] is consistently the file name of the
>script running, whether I do it with python.exe or via IDLE/Run Script. (I
>actually use it to open the script within itself and copy itself out to an
>audit log for a record of what code created the script's results)
>
>You're right, it's probably not worth it since it just adds a "press enter"
>to the output when I run my script in IDLE (where I don't actually need the
>pause). I just thought the cognoscenti out here might have run across a
>nifty trick for determining if it was python.exe/PythonWin/whatever since I
>couldn't find such a thing in the books or manuals I have...

The length of sys.modules can help. The 2.2.2 interpreter __import__s 15 
modules; IDLE adds 73, PythonWin adds 213. So code like this might suffice, 
leaving room for future changes.

import sys
if len(sys.modules) < 50: ... # raw interpreter
elif len(sys.modules) < 200: ... # IDLE
else: ... # PythonWin

Bob Gailer
bgailer at alum.rpi.edu
303 442 2625
-------------- next part --------------

---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.500 / Virus Database: 298 - Release Date: 7/10/2003

From hokiegal99 at hotmail.com  Wed Jul  9 10:15:32 2003
From: hokiegal99 at hotmail.com (hokiegal99)
Date: 9 Jul 2003 07:15:32 -0700
Subject: regexp and filenames
References: <befn47$5u4$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <mailman.1057723392.15805.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <93f5c5e9.0307090615.1c51f5f7@posting.google.com>

I added a few chars to the bad character list and these two print
statements to the end of the script:

	    print oldpath
	    print newpath

So I could see what filenames were changed and where. I wrote a script
that generates broken filenames in the filesystem and then ran your
script to see if everything works as expected. Did some testing... so
far it works great. See output below.

Thanks for the program! I only wanted direction, but you went the
extra mile! Also, I d/l 2.3b2 before testing your script. No problems
there either.

mv test1- "test1*"
mv test2- "test2<"
mv test3- "test3>"
mv test4- "test4:"
mv test5- "test5;"
mv test6-t "test6\t"
mv test7- "test7?"
mv test8- "test8|"
mv test9-t "test9\"t"
mv test10- "test10="
mv test11- "test11+"
#---------
cd SPREADSHEETS
#---------
mv test1- "test1*"
mv test2- "test2<"
mv test3- "test3>"
mv test4- "test4:"
mv test5- "test5;"
mv test6-t "test6\t"
mv test7- "test7?"
mv test8- "test8|"
mv test9-t "test9\"t"
mv test10- "test10="
mv test11- "test11+"
#---------
#--------
cd ../BEN*/NCAA*R*
#--------
mv test1- "test1*"
mv test2- "test2<"
mv test3- "test3>"
mv test4- "test4:"
mv test5- "test5;"
mv test6-t "test6\t"
mv test7- "test7?"
mv test8- "test8|"
mv test9-t "test9\"t"
mv test10- "test10="
mv test11- "test11+"
#---------

#---------
#1 = *
#2 = <
#3 = >
#4 = :
#5 = ;
#6 = \
#7 = ?
#8 = |
#9 = "
#10 = =
#11 = +







emf <i at mindlace.net> wrote in message news:<mailman.1057723392.15805.python-list at python.org>...
> --On 8 Tuesday, July 2003 20:24 -0400 hokiegal99 
> <hokiegal99 at hotmail.com> wrote:
> 
> > I have a bit of a problem that I think Python can solve, but I need a
> > bit of direction. I'm replacing 12 Macs with PCs. Macs allow
> > characters in filenames that Windows does not, specifically the
> > following:
> >
> > : * ? " < > | / \
> >
> > I would like to write a script that searches through a directory for
> > filenames that contain any of the aboved listed characters and
> > replaces them with a - (the minus sign).
> >
> > I'm familiar with regexp, but I've only used it in Python to act on
> > the contents of a file, not filenames in a directory. Any pointers on
> > how to approach this are welcome!
> >
> 
> This should do the trick. You can steal walk from 2.3 and use it in 2.2 
> with hardly any modifications, if you're using 2.2.
> 
> import os, re
> 
> # | and \ have to be escaped;
> # the r prefix on the string keeps it from being a huge escape:
> badcharset = re.compile(r'[*:?"<>/\|\\]')
> 
> for root, dirs, files in os.walk('/'): #or however you spell root on 
> your mac
>     for file in files:
>         badchars = badcharset.findall(file)
>         newfile = ''
>         for badchar in badchars:
>             newfile = file.replace(badchar,'-')
>         if newfile:
>             newpath = os.path.join(root,newfile)
>             oldpath = os.path.join(root,file)
>             os.rename(oldpath,newpath)
> 
> Hope that helps,
> 
> ~mindlace
> http://mindlace.net



From logistix at cathoderaymission.net  Wed Jul 23 21:44:23 2003
From: logistix at cathoderaymission.net (logistix at cathoderaymission.net)
Date: 23 Jul 2003 18:44:23 -0700
Subject: Getting sub-objects from ADSI
References: <d89570b3.0307231025.69b573e5@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3c91a864.0307231744.44a0adbb@posting.google.com>

mpnugent at ra.rockwell.com (Michael P. Nugent) wrote in message news:<d89570b3.0307231025.69b573e5 at posting.google.com>...
> How do I get the underlying values from Win::OLE=Hash(0x...) type
> objects? I can do it in Perl, but not in Python.
> 
> For instance, I get
> 
> CN=Fred
> <COMObject <unknown>>
> <COMObject <unknown>>
> 
> when running
> 
> #! python
> 
> import pythoncom
> from win32com.client import GetObject
> 
> UserPath = "LDAP://CN=Fred,OU=Two,OU=One,DC=nw,DC=home,DC=here,DC=com"
> 
> ldap = GetObject(Userpath)
> 
> print ldap.Name
> print ldap.Groups()
> print ldap.LastLogoff
> 
> I know that Groups is of the type <bound method CDispatch.Groups of
> <COMObject ...>>, but that knowledge does not help me much.  I have
> fiddled a bit with GetInfo and Dispatch, but it doesn't change the
> results.

Try:

for group in ldap.Groups():
    print group.Name #or whatever you really want to do



From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Jul  4 19:36:45 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 19:36:45 -0400
Subject: RTS/CTS and DTR/DTS control
References: <pan.2003.07.04.19.37.02.310028@kordik.net> <pan.2003.07.04.23.44.30.894302@kordik.net>
Message-ID: <3F060F8D.94E47DCD@engcorp.com>

Mike wrote:
> > Is there a library in Python that will give me control over the
> > handshaking lines directly?
> I am running Linux, Python 2.2.2. It would be nice (not mandatory)
> to be cross platform though.

You call them handshaking lines, so one might infer you want
to use them as such while doing serial communications.  Are
you in fact actually planning to control them as discrete
inputs and outputs, for some kind of control application?
(If not, I'm curious why you want to control them directly.)

There is Chris Liechti's library, which you can find with
http://www.google.com/search?q=python+serial+port but I'm
not sure it supports direct control of the I/Os...  if it
doesn't you should be able to get direct control of those 
lines under Linux using appropriate fcntl.ioctl() calls, I 
would think, though I haven't done it myself.

-Peter



From jeremy at alum.mit.edu  Wed Jul  9 10:22:11 2003
From: jeremy at alum.mit.edu (Jeremy Hylton)
Date: 09 Jul 2003 10:22:11 -0400
Subject: urllib2 for HTTPS/SSL
In-Reply-To: <153fa67.0307090129.2d6bef57@posting.google.com>
References: <153fa67.0307080233.2f7abdf5@posting.google.com>
	 <mailman.1057668851.8514.python-list@python.org>
	 <153fa67.0307090129.2d6bef57@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1057760531.29193.9.camel@slothrop.zope.com>

On Wed, 2003-07-09 at 05:29, Kylotan wrote:
> Jeremy Hylton <jeremy at alum.mit.edu> wrote in message news:<mailman.1057668851.8514.python-list at python.org>...
> > On Tue, 2003-07-08 at 06:33, Kylotan wrote:
> > > I have no idea how (or if) to use the 'HTTPSHandler' object, or what
> > > the correct way for me to request an SSL connection is. Does anybody
> > > have any hints? And additionally, is there any chance of the official
> > > documentation on this useful-looking module being improved?
> > 
> > Unless I misunderstand your intent, you don't need to use the Handler
> > object directly.  HTTPS support is provided automatically, so long as
> > your local Python has SSL support.  (It should.)
> 
> Ok, so what you're saying is that the stuff documented in:
> "Python Library Reference - 11.5.14 HTTPSHandler Objects"
> is purely an implementational detail?  In other words, they're
> specifying examples of Handler classes in case you wanted to see how
> to write one yourself, but to use the urllib2 library normally you'd
> never need to really know this?

urllib2 provides a framework for writing custom handlers.  If you want
to create your own handlers or an opener with a custom set of handlers,
this documentation may be helpful.

> I'm guessing the OpenerDirector object tries the URL with each
> BaseHandler-derived object to see which one should handle it.

That's about right.  Most of the handlers are registered for particular
protocols.  So the opener knows to use the HTTPSHandler for https://
requests.

Jeremy






From thedustbustr at aol.com  Sat Jul 26 21:51:39 2003
From: thedustbustr at aol.com (TheDustbustr)
Date: 27 Jul 2003 01:51:39 GMT
Subject: (Eclipse/TruStudio) Re: I am so impressed
References: <ihmtfb.qhq.ln@news1.interplanet.it>
Message-ID: <20030726215139.14696.00000526@mb-m04.aol.com>

My only complaint is that it won't let you use control keys in the
interpereter.  It's a problem when you put a while 1: in your mainloop and
can't KeyboardInterrupt out of it.

Great for an editor, as long as you run your apps externally.



From max at cNOvSisiPonAtecMh.com  Thu Jul 10 16:51:41 2003
From: max at cNOvSisiPonAtecMh.com (Max Khesin)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 20:51:41 GMT
Subject: Parsing
References: <e5fb8973.0307100938.13fcea56@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <xlkPa.8851$351.4827318@twister.nyc.rr.com>

Start here:
http://diveintopython.org/dialect_divein.html

--
========================================
Max Khesin, software developer -
max at cNvOiSsPiAoMntech.com
[check out our image compression software at www.cvisiontech.com, JBIG2-PDF
compression @
www.cvisiontech.com/cvistapdf.html]


"Michael" <whatsupg21 at hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:e5fb8973.0307100938.13fcea56 at posting.google.com...
> I have been assigned a project to parse a webpage for data using
> Python. I have finished only basic tutorials. Any suggestions as to
> where I should go from here? Thanks in advance.





From scook at elp.rr.com  Fri Jul  4 08:31:27 2003
From: scook at elp.rr.com (Stan Cook)
Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 12:31:27 GMT
Subject: File information??
References: <OI8Na.58613$TJ.2869886@twister.austin.rr.com> <be36cf$j23$1@news.rol.ru>
Message-ID: <zseNa.44819$xg5.23332@twister.austin.rr.com>

Thanks! I'll try that.
"Egor Bolonev" <ebolonev at rol.ru> wrote in message
news:be36cf$j23$1 at news.rol.ru...
> Hello, Stan!
> You wrote  on Fri, 04 Jul 2003 05:59:10 GMT:
>
>  SC> Is there a way to get the file size and modified date of a file?
>
> os.stat()
>
> =========Beginning of the citation==============
> import os,glob
>
> a=glob.glob('c:\\*')[0]
> print os.stat(a)[6],os.stat(a)[8]
>
> =========The end of the citation================
>
> With best regards, Egor Bolonev.  E-mail: ebolonev at rol.ru [ru eo en]
>





From maney at pobox.com  Thu Jul 10 13:01:35 2003
From: maney at pobox.com (Martin Maney)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 17:01:35 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Search for mapping solution
References: <be9t66$2otne$1@ID-47851.news.dfncis.de> <3F087E85.9D8018E9@hotmail.com> <aw%Na.5962$Tx.86640@news20.bellglobal.com>
Message-ID: <bek65f$j7a$1@wheel2.two14.net>

I dedicate this monument to Alan Kennedy, without whom I would probably
never have tried to compress things so.  :-)

Sean Ross <sross at connectmail.carleton.ca> wrote:
> lines = [['fred','333','0.10'],['sam','444','1'],['fred','333','0.50']]
> costs = {}
> # nearly identical to Achim's solution, but with a list comp.
> [costs.__setitem__(name, costs.get(name,0)+float(price))
>         for name, number, price in lines]
> print costs
> # outputs: {'sam': 1.0, 'fred': 0.60}

It isn't really one line though, is it?  For truly cryptic terseness
you want to swing functional (I shall adopt your interpretation of the
third element although seeing it as a list of integers would have
allowed for additional functional yumminess):

>>> lines = [['fred','333','0.10'],['sam','444','1'],['fred','333','0.50']]
>>> reduce(lambda d,x: d.update({x[0]: d.get(x[0],0.0) + float(x[2])}) or d, [{}] + lines)
{'fred': 0.59999999999999998, 'sam': 1.0}

Mind you, I normally despise the whole one-liner phenomenon, which
makes me almost pleased about the inelegant necessity of that 'or d' -
blame it on either update's lack of a return value or lambda's
emasculation.  But as I've been working my way through SICP as this
summer's project, it certainly seems odd.  :-/

-- 
automation: replacing what works with something that almost works,
but which is faster and cheaper.  - attributed to Roger Needham



From MatthewS at HeyAnita.com  Wed Jul  9 14:44:02 2003
From: MatthewS at HeyAnita.com (Matt Shomphe)
Date: 9 Jul 2003 11:44:02 -0700
Subject: Deleting specific characters from a string
References: <begfb3$7j6$1@online.de>
Message-ID: <5ab0af73.0307091044.254f5aab@posting.google.com>

Maybe a new method should be added to the str class, called "remove". 
It would take a list of characters and remove them from the string:


class RemoveString(str):
    def __init__(self, s=None):
        str.__init__(self, s)
    def remove(self, chars):
        s = self
        for c in chars:          
            s = s.replace(c, '')
        return(s)

if __name__ == '__main__':
    r = RemoveString('abc')
    e = r.remove('c')
    print r, e 
    # prints "abc ab" -- it's not "in place" removal

M@
            


Behrang Dadsetan <ben at dadsetan.com> wrote in message news:<begfb3$7j6$1 at online.de>...
> Hi all,
> 
> I would like deleting specific characters from a string.
> As an example, I would like to delete all of the '@' '&' in the string 
> 'You are ben at orange?enter&your&code' so that it becomes 
> 'benorange?enteryourcode'.
> 
> So far I have been doing it like:
> str = 'You are ben at orange?enter&your&code'
> str = ''.join([ c for c in str if c not in ('@', '&')])
> 
> but that looks so ugly.. I am hoping to see nicer examples to acheive 
> the above..
> 
> Thanks.
> Ben.



From Olivier.POYEN at clf-dexia.com  Mon Jul  7 07:53:22 2003
From: Olivier.POYEN at clf-dexia.com (POYEN OP Olivier (DCL))
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 13:53:22 +0200
Subject: Gathering variable names from within a function.
Message-ID: <8963D6370B323E4AA3241200F0EAF7318C0F74@FCEXVEXM002.dcl.int.dexwired.net>


> "Xavier" <sabu at pure-elite.org> wrote in message 
> news:<mailman.1057315927.28411.python-list at python.org>...
> > Greetings,
> > 
> > I was wondering if there was a way to get a list of all the 
> variables which
> > were executed/created/modified within a function?
> > 
> > Here is a simple example that comes to my mind:
> > 
> > def getVars(func):
> >     ...
> >     ...
> >     ...
> > 
> > def modVar(arg, arg2):
> > 
> >     Var1 = arg
> >     Var2 = arg2
> >     Var3 = arg+arg2
> >     return Var3
> > 
> > def main():
> > 
> >     print getVars(modVar('test', 'test2'))
> > 
> > # end
> > 
> > naturally, "Var1", "Var2" and "Var3" should be printed to 
> the user.  Any
> > idea?
> >
> 
> What about
>  
> def modVar(arg, arg2):
>     Var1 = arg
>     Var2 = arg2
>     Var3 = arg+arg2
>     print vars()
>     return Var3
> 
> modVar('test', 'test2')
> 
> =>
> 
> {'arg2': 'test2', 
> 'arg': 'test', 
> 'Var1': 'test', 
> 'Var3': 'testtest2', 
> 'Var2': 'test2'}
> 
> 

more cryptic, but available from outside modVar:

def getVars(func):
	return func.func_code.co_varnames


HTH,

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From FBatista at uniFON.com.ar  Fri Jul 18 07:37:26 2003
From: FBatista at uniFON.com.ar (Batista, Facundo)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 08:37:26 -0300
Subject: "\n" in ASCII-file
Message-ID: <A128D751272CD411BC9200508BC2194D03382BE6@escpl.tcp.com.ar>

#- And... is there any special method to read lines from a file 
#- without "\n"?

If you're sure you have the '\n' at the end, you can:

myfile = file('myfile')
for line in myfile:
	line = line[:-1]
	...

.	Facundo




From paul at boddie.net  Tue Jul 29 07:58:34 2003
From: paul at boddie.net (Paul Boddie)
Date: 29 Jul 2003 04:58:34 -0700
Subject: DOM as a flat dictionary
References: <3f21335a_2@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com> <bg3gf3$msl$1@nntp0.reith.bbc.co.uk>
Message-ID: <23891c90.0307290358.554c7ef8@posting.google.com>

Neil Padgen <neil.padgen at mon.bbc.co.uk> wrote in message news:<bg3gf3$msl$1 at nntp0.reith.bbc.co.uk>...
> On Friday 25 July 2003 13:38, don't dash! wrote:
> 
> > My thought was to generate a flat dictionary representation of the
> > foreign and local formats with the absolute Xpath expression as
> > dictionary key.
> 
> You'll lose any ordering of the elements.

Not if you employ position indicators, as defined in XPath. Of course,
this might not make the "flat" descriptors very readable, but there
are other solutions.

> With the XML
> 
> <spam>
>   <eggs/>
>   <bacon/>
>   <lobster_thermidor accompaniment="crevettes" sauce="mornay"
>                      topping="fried_egg">
>     <more_spam/>
>   <lobster_thermidor>

Editing this to be a closing tag, of course...

> </spam>
> 
> translated into a flat dictionary
> 
> {
>   '/spam': True,
>   '/spam/eggs': True,
>   '/spam/bacon': True,
>   '/spam/lobster_thermidor': True,
>   '/spam/lobster_thermidor/more_spam': True,
> }
> 
> there is no way that you can tell whether /spam/eggs comes before
> /spam/bacon in the original XML.

You could employ something like this:

  /spam/*[1] -> refers to "eggs"
  /spam/*[2] -> refers to "bacon"

This isn't nice to read, as I noted above, and in practice it would
also rely on you having some kind of schema information for you to
know in advance which kind of element was being referred to. For the
desired application, I doubt that this is acceptable.

You could make things more complicated:

  /spam/eggs[position() = 1] -> refers to "eggs" but only as the
                                first element in the sequence
  /spam/bacon[position() = 2] -> refers to "bacon" but only as the
                                 second element in the sequence

This does indicate which element is being referred to and where that
element resides in the sequence of elements. The reconstruction of a
document from this information could be easy enough to achieve,
although the parsing of the conditional part is slightly more
complicated than other (non-XPath) notations.

You could invent a simplified (non-XPath) notation:

  /spam/eggs:1 -> refers to "eggs" but only appearing first
  /spam/bacon:2 -> refers to "bacon" but only appearing second

In the past, I've adopted such notations myself in order to represent
hierarchies in rendered HTML forms. There can be alternative
interpretations of the position numbers, however, since if you have a
schema to work from then you could decide to interpret the numbers as
the position of a particular element amongst elements of only that
kind, comparable to the following XPath expressions:

  /spam/eggs[1] -> refers to the first "eggs" element
  /spam/bacon[1] -> refers to the first "bacon" element
                    (not giving any information about the relative
                     ordering of different elements)

There are plenty of alternatives, so I hope one of them is useful. :-)

Paul



From bignose-hates-spam at and-benfinney-does-too.id.au  Sun Jul 27 18:21:13 2003
From: bignose-hates-spam at and-benfinney-does-too.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: 28 Jul 2003 08:11:13 +0950
Subject: Static typing
References: <LvdUa.905$DU.696@fe12.atl2.webusenet.com> <3f218ef1$0$27926$626a54ce@news.free.fr> <3f219c8d$1@nntp0.pdx.net> <lWAUa.25680$Gw4.21886@fe06.atl2.webusenet.com> <3f23ae06$0$21093$626a54ce@news.free.fr> <20030727.141111.1139901474.9957@demon.mindhog.net> <3f244eff$0$21092$626a54ce@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <slrnbi8l89.2bi.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>

On Mon, 28 Jul 2003 00:23:26 +0200, Bruno Desthuilliers wrote:
> Michael Muller wrote:
>> -  it is hard to guarantee that the documentation is in sync with the
>> code (if you change the type expectations of a function, you can do
>> so without changing the documented expectations)
> 
> If your programmers don't care about keeping doc in sync, you're in
> trouble whatever the language.

If your programmers don't care about keeping block indentation in sync
with the logical structure, you're in trouble whatever the language.

Oh!  That's right, Python enforces block indentation be kept in sync
with the logical structure, because it's useful to do so whether or not
the programmer cares about it.

Programmers may care to a greater or lesser degree; the language can
help or hinder.

-- 
 \     "I think there is a world market for maybe five computers."  -- |
  `\                              Thomas Watson, chairman of IBM, 1943 |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney <http://bignose.squidly.org/>



From rtrocca_SPAM_ME_NOT at libero.it  Thu Jul 31 05:44:08 2003
From: rtrocca_SPAM_ME_NOT at libero.it (Riccardo)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 11:44:08 +0200
Subject: Python speed vs csharp
References: <rkdc7poiachh.1x4jtxjzaf3zo.dlg@40tude.net>
Message-ID: <bgao8j$ls3g3$1@ID-193847.news.uni-berlin.de>

Another option would be SWIG (www.swig.org).
Write a simple function, pass the header file (sometime you do not need to
modify it at all) to SWIG and you got your source ready to be compile with
distutils (for example).
I used that approach several times.

I had a look at pyrex and BOOST.
I think that pyrex sounds very interesting if you use C (but I NEVER used it
myself unless for some stupid demo/test) while I found BOOST learning curve
(and installation, etc. etc.) a bit steep. Anyway this is just what I felt
using the two of them.

Riccardo


"Mike" <mike at nospam.com> wrote in message
news:rkdc7poiachh.1x4jtxjzaf3zo.dlg at 40tude.net...
> Bear with me: this post is moderately long, but I hope it is relatively
> succinct.
>
> I've been using Python for several years as a behavioral modeling tool for
> the circuits I design. So far, it's been a good trade-off: compiled C++
> would run faster, but the development time of Python is so much faster,
and
> the resulting code is so much more reliable after the first pass, that
I've
> never been tempted to return to C++. Every time I think stupid thoughts
> like, "I'll bet I could do this in C++," I get out my copy of Scott
Meyers'
> "Effecive C++," and I'm quickly reminded why it's better to stick with
> Python (Meyers is a very good author, but points out lots of quirks and
> pitfalls with C++ that I keep thinking that I shouldn't have to worry
> about, much less try to remember). Even though Python is wonderful in that
> regard, there are problems.
>
> Here's the chunk of code that I'm spending most of my time executing:
>
> # Rational approximation for erfc(x) (Abramowitz & Stegun, Sec. 7.1.26)
> # Fifth order approximation. |error| <= 1.5e-7 for all x
> #
> def erfc( x ):
>    p  =  0.3275911
>    a1 =  0.254829592
>    a2 = -0.284496736
>    a3 =  1.421413741
>    a4 = -1.453152027
>    a5 =  1.061405429
>
>    t = 1.0 / (1.0 + p*float(x))
>    erfcx = ( (a1 + (a2 + (a3 +
>              (a4 + a5*t)*t)*t)*t)*t ) * math.exp(-(x**2))
>    return erfcx
>
> This is an error function approximation, which gets called around 1.5
> billion times during the simulation, and takes around 3500 seconds (just
> under an hour) to complete. While trying to speed things up, I created a
> simple test case with the code above and a main function to call it 10
> million times. The code takes roughly 210 seconds to run.
>
> The current execution time is acceptable, but I need to increase the
> complexity of the simulation, and will need to increase the number of data
> points by around 20X, to roughly 30 billion. This will increase the
> simulation time to over a day. Since the test case code was fairly small,
I
> translated it to C and ran it. The C code runs in approximately 7.5
> seconds. That's compelling, but C isn't: part of my simulation includes a
> parser to read an input file. I put that together in a few minutes in
> Python, but there are no corresponding string or regex libraries with my C
> compiler, so converting my Python code would take far more time than I'd
> save during the resulting simulations.
>
> On a lark, I grabbed the Mono C# compiler, and converted my test case to
> C#. Here's the corresponding erfc code:
>
>    public static double erfc( double x )
>    {
>       double p, a1, a2, a3, a4, a5;
>       double t, erfcx;
>
>       p  =  0.3275911;
>       a1 =  0.254829592;
>       a2 = -0.284496736;
>       a3 =  1.421413741;
>       a4 = -1.453152027;
>       a5 =  1.061405429;
>
>       t = 1.0 / (1.0 + p*x);
>       erfcx = ( (a1 + (a2 + (a3 +
>                 (a4 + a5*t)*t)*t)*t)*t ) * Math.Exp(-Math.Pow(x,2.0));
>       return erfcx;
>    }
>
> Surprisingly (to me, at least), this code executed 10 million iterations
in
> 8.5 seconds - only slightly slower than the compiled C code.
>
> My first question is, why is the Python code, at 210 seconds, so much
> slower?
>
> My second question is, is there anything that can be done to get Python's
> speed close to the speed of C#?
>
> -- Mike --





From gordons_lists at gmx.net  Sat Jul 12 13:34:20 2003
From: gordons_lists at gmx.net (Gordon Wetzstein)
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 19:34:20 +0200 (MEST)
Subject: socket problem
References: <3F102395.8C3E3395@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <25988.1058031260@www53.gmx.net>

> > I have a problem with python sockets.
> > I broadcast a lot of pickled objects with socket. sendto(...), that
> > works.
> > Ireceive them on the other site with socket.recvfrom(16384)
> > The pickled objects are smaller (like 10000 bytes) than the max bytes.
> > 
> > The problem appears if I send too many pickled objects very quickly one
> > after another,
> > then I only receive a part of the sent objects.
> 
> As Jp Calderone pointed out, UDP is an unreliable protocol. Therefore,
> it *will* drop packets occasionally. Worse, it doesn't guarantee
> ordering of delivery of packets, meaning that your pickles could
> arrive all jumbled up and unusable.
> 
> You have three main choices to get around this problem.
> 
> 1. Use TCP, which guarantees delivery to the destination address once
> and only once, guarantees that packets will be received in the order
> in which they were sent. However, you can't broadcast with TCP: it's a
> point to point protocol.
> 
> 2. Implement your own guaranteed delivery protocol over UDP. This is
> usually done by assigning packets a sequence number as they are
> transmitted from the publisher. All consumers then keep track of the
> sequence numbers they receive, and re-request any packets they missed.
> Implementing your own such protocol can get quite tricky, depending on
> how complex your requirements.
> 
> 3. Use a pre-made, highly efficient python library which is custom
> designed for the job: spread. Spread is designed to solve all of the
> problems of reliable broadcasting over UDP, and gives you a wide range
> of options for how to balance efficiency versus reliability. And more
> importantly, it's  industrial-strength robust, stable and platform
> independent. Also, it's configurable to work with a wide range of
> network topologies. More info from
> 
> http://www.python.org/other/spread/
> 
> If I were you, I'd seriously consider spending an hour getting up and
> running with Spread: could be the most productive hour you'll spend in
> this area.
> 
> HTH,
> 
> -- 
> alan kennedy

thanks, i will try it.
gordon

-- 
+++ GMX - Mail, Messaging & more  http://www.gmx.net +++

Jetzt ein- oder umsteigen und USB-Speicheruhr als Pr?mie sichern!





From cognite at zianet.com  Fri Jul 18 10:39:03 2003
From: cognite at zianet.com (cognite at zianet.com)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 08:39:03 -0600
Subject: python contribs to life sci informatics, enhancing the profile
Message-ID: <20030718083903.170ad935.cognite@zianet.com>

This venue would surely appreciate the cool stuff being done in
python on bioinformatics and python's tools for info parsing and 
extraction (like fulltext indexing, xml tools, parser builders, 
graphic display, realtime simulation and communities tools like
pygame and ...)

It's in San Diego February 9-12, 2004.
"Session presentations are 45 or 90 minutes long, and tutorials are
either a half-day (3 hours) or a full day (6 hours)."

Although the sponsor is pro-python, python isn't mentioned in the call!

SC

==================================================================
Fw: O'Reilly Life Science Informatics Conf. Call for Participation
Begin forwarded message:

Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 18:30:50 -0700 (PDT)
From: Suzanne Axtell <suzanne at oreilly.com>
To: cognite at zianet.com
Subject: O'Reilly Life Science Informatics Conf. Call for Participation


For Immediate Release
July 17, 2003
For more information, contact:
Suzanne Axtell (707) 827-7114 or suzanne at oreilly.com

Call For Participation:
The 2004 O'Reilly Life Science Informatics Conference

Sebastopol, CA--O'Reilly & Associates invites biologists, computer
scientists, software engineers, mathematicians, and experts in other
related fields to submit proposals to lead tutorial and conference
sessions at the O'Reilly Life Science Informatics Conference, slated
for February 9-12, 2004 at the Westin Horton Plaza in San Diego, CA.
Proposals are due September 1, 2003.

For the past two years, the annual O'Reilly informatics conference has
focused on bioinformatics as the theme. This year, we're expanding the
scope of this conference to reflect the evolutionary changes happening
in the field of life science informatics. The conference will explore
topics in life science--from the fundamental levels to the
advanced--and will focus on the technologies, techniques, and tools
used to understand and analyze that biological data.

The O'Reilly Life Science Informatics Conference brings together
practitioners from biology, molecular biology, computer science,
pharmacology, medicine, software engineering, chemistry, and
mathematics for four days of information exchange, learning, and fun.
This conference explores the intersection points of the various
sub-disciplines of life science informatics and focuses on practical
ways of applying the tools of computer science to the life sciences.

"Practicality is a necessity in life science informatics these days,"
notes O'Reilly editor and conference chair Lorrie LeJeune, commenting
on what has been an over-arching theme for all of the O'Reilly
informatics conferences. "As our knowledge of living systems continues
to expand, so do the data sets. Storing, managing, and analyzing data
sets is the focus of countless tools and techniques. The biological
discoveries now being made are absolutely astounding, and will begin to
have a wider impact as the field expands. Our first two conferences in
this area were very successful, in part because informatics is an area
of growth for both computer geeks and scientists. It's essential for
the health of the field of informatics to bring these tools and skills
to a wider audience."

The conference begins with one day of tutorials, providing background
information or deep coverage of important issues in life science
informatics. Three days of conference sessions follow, covering a wide
range of topics and problems in life science informatics, from building
tools using languages such as Perl and Java, to learning about systems
for high-throughput data analysis. Confirmed keynote presenters include
Howard Cash of Gene Codes Corporation and Thure Etzold of LION
bioscience Ltd.

The O'Reilly Life Science Informatics Conference will also feature a
poster session, for which we are also accepting proposals.

Submitting Proposals:

Individuals and companies interested in making presentations, giving a
tutorial, or participating in panel discussions are invited to submit
proposals using the online form. Proposals will be considered in two
classes: tutorials and conference presentations (sessions).
Presentations by marketing staff or with a marketing focus will not be
accepted; neither will submissions made by anyone other than the
proposed speaker.

Session presentations are 45 or 90 minutes long, and tutorials are
either a half-day (3 hours) or a full day (6 hours). If you are
interested in participating in or moderating panel discussions, or
otherwise contributing to the conference, please let us know (and
please include your area of expertise). If you have an idea for a panel
discussion or a particularly provocative group of panelists that you'd
love to see square off, feel free to send your suggestions to
lsicon-idea at oreilly.com.

Since practicality is a conference theme, we'd particularly like to see
proposals that highlight case studies, best practices for a tool or
system, and fundamental skills. We'd also like to learn from things
that don't work. For example, have you discovered that a popularly
accepted approach or solution that simply doesn't work or perform well
in your hands? Are there cases where a proprietary Windows app has
saved you where Bio (Perl/Python/Java) couldn't do the trick? Did the
widespread use of XML leave you gasping for bandwidth or storage where
a simple binary format made the problem disappear without noticeable
impact on information exchange?

Topics of specific interest are systems biology, drug discovery,
advanced sequence analysis, cheminformatics and chemogenomics,
biomedical informatics, open source efforts, ontologies, controlled
vocabularies, taxonomies, standards, and tools and techniques.

Proposals need not be works of art--a thoughtful summary or abstract of
the talk you plan to give is sufficient for consideration. We prefer
outlines for tutorials. The proposal is what the conference committee
uses to select speakers, so give the committee enough information to
understand the topic you're covering.

Additional Resources:

For more conference information and to submit a proposal, see:
http://conferences.oreilly.com/lsicon/

Check out news coverage from last year's O'Reilly Bioinformatics
Technology Conference:  http://www.oreillynet.com/biocon2003/

Details from last year's O'Reilly Bioinformatics Technology Conference
can be found at:  http://conferences.oreillynet.com/bio2003/

For information on exhibition and sponsorship opportunities at the
conference, contact Andrew Calvo at (707) 827-7176, or
andrewc at oreilly.com.

About O'Reilly
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From anton at vredegoor.doge.nl  Wed Jul  9 10:12:41 2003
From: anton at vredegoor.doge.nl (Anton Vredegoor)
Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 16:12:41 +0200
Subject: OT: Genetic Algorithm Recipe Bug Fix
References: <JwYMa.5801$eF3.719843@news20.bellglobal.com>
Message-ID: <beh8ad$dm0$1@news.hccnet.nl>

"Sean Ross" <sross at connectmail.carleton.ca> wrote:

>Hi. For anyone who has chosen to use my Genetic Algorithm recipe
>(http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/199121), I'd like
>to make you aware of a fairly serious oversite on my part - I left out the
>division part of the standard deviation routine! That's been fixed on the
>recipe page, but not on my personal web site - which will be done when I
>post the new version I'm building for a study I'll be working on this fall.

Importing the math module should also make a big difference for the
standard deviation routine :-) Also stddev was only used by the
sigmascaling code, which was unreachable ... However, this is a very
nice module and I especially like the graphical TSP-solver that is in
the other package on your website.

I had been looking at it before but I failed to comprehend what you
were doing. However recently I developed a taste for Genetic
Algorithms as a side result of a thread on c.l.py here ("getting a
submatrix of all true"). 

In the process of finding a heuristic solution to the problem I came
to understand your module a bit better and I've also tinkered a bit
with it (minor changes) and I have produced a heuristic solution for
the submatrix problem. (it counts 59928 zero's, for insiders :-)

If someone is interested it's here:

http://home.hccnet.nl/a.vredegoor/twomax


Anyway, maybe seeing your code used and *changed* will give enough of
a jolt to start working on it some more (which I would welcome :-)

Anton





From skodela at lithium.com  Wed Jul 16 05:47:01 2003
From: skodela at lithium.com (sreekant)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 09:47:01 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: tkinter
In-Reply-To: <3114992.1058316065@dbforums.com>
References: <3114992.1058316065@dbforums.com>
Message-ID: <bf36ul$1tv$1@hercules.btinternet.com>

Checkout python.org and they have some links.
cheers
sreekant

sprmn wrote:
> does anyone know of any sites with good tutorials on tkinter on them?
> 
> --
> Posted via http://dbforums.com




From ajcoon at hotmail.com  Fri Jul 25 13:54:07 2003
From: ajcoon at hotmail.com (aj coon)
Date: 25 Jul 2003 10:54:07 -0700
Subject: How to detect typos in Python programs
References: <ZPaUa.6$gZ.133@news.oracle.com>
Message-ID: <21dbccb.0307250954.5c2125d4@posting.google.com>

Manish Jethani <manish.j at gmx.net> wrote in message news:<ZPaUa.6$gZ.133 at news.oracle.com>...
> Hi all,
> 
> Is there a way to detect typos in a Python program, before
> actually having to run it.  Let's say I have a function like this:
> 
>   def server_closed_connection():
>     session.abost()
> 
> Here, abort() is actually misspelt.  The only time my program
> follows this path is when the server disconnects from its
> end--and that's like once in 100 sessions.  So sometimes I
> release the program, people start using it, and then someone
> reports this typo after 4-5 days of the release (though it's
> trivial to fix manually at the user's end, or I can give a patch).
> 
> How can we detect these kinds of errors at development time?
> It's not practical for me to have a test script that can make
> the program go through all (most) the possible code paths.
> 
> -Manish


This is one of the things about interpreted languages that I detest-
lack of compile-time errors and warnings.   With python, you can
always open an interactive session with the interpreter and 'import
<filename>', but that only catches syntax errors.

For things like unreferenced variables and undefined names (typos, as
you like to nicely put it ;-), theres a program we use for testing our
code:

http://pychecker.sourceforge.net/

Have a look.  Admittedly, the information it outputs can be
overwhelming.  Take some time to just examine its behaviors and
options.  What you'll probably end up doing is customizing its output,
either by modifying the source, or running it through
grep/awk/sed/python afterwards.   But, it's definitely a starting
point.


-AJ



From jarausch at skynet.be  Fri Jul 18 15:13:51 2003
From: jarausch at skynet.be (Helmut Jarausch)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 21:13:51 +0200
Subject: Using Python as script extension
In-Reply-To: <3f183aee_1@dns.sd54.bc.ca>
References: <3f183aee_1@dns.sd54.bc.ca>
Message-ID: <3F1846EF.1010609@skynet.be>

Bob van der Poel wrote:
> 
> I'm looking for some suggestions on a project I'm working at these days...
> 
> I've written my program "Musical MIDI Accompaniment (MMA)" which parses 
> a text file and generates MIDI output. I've written this in Python, and 
> all works very nicely. See http://www.kootenay.com/~bvdpoel/music.html
> 
> Now, I am thinking that adding variables and conditional (if/then/else) 
> possiblities to MMA scripts might be a good thing. If I want to do this 
> I see several possible routes:
> 
> 1. Add the code to maintain and set variables to my existing code. This 
> always seems to end up being a lot more work than one plans. Certainly, 
> adding a command like "Set MyVariable 123" is simple enought, but then 
> the next thing you know one will be adding math, etc.
> 
> 2. Somehow having Python handle the dirty stuff. I guess that my "Set 
> MyVariable 123" could be passed along to Python with an eval or exec. 
> However, I'm not sure how much help this would be since we still end up 
> with having to write code to handle if/then/else.
> 
> 3. Somehow turn my MMA scripts into python scripts and extend python to 
> generate the stuff which my program originally set out to produce. This 
> would involve a major rewrite of my own code and most likely send my 
> exsiting MMA scripts into the dumpster...
> 
> And I'm sure I'm missing yet another solution. I'd really appreciate 
> some thoughts and/or ideas on how I might approach this.
> 

Being a Python newbee my, I'd suggest having a look at

  http://www.alcyone.com/pyos/empy/

it looks as if it is what you are looking for.



-- 
Helmut Jarausch

Lehrstuhl fuer Numerische Mathematik
RWTH - Aachen University
D 52056 Aachen, Germany




From jjl at pobox.com  Wed Jul 16 14:52:25 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 16 Jul 2003 19:52:25 +0100
Subject: Replacing rexec
References: <mailman.1058378245.3305.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87fzl6i9sm.fsf@pobox.com>

Tim Gerla <tgerla at outsourcefinancial.com> writes:
[...]
> We are looking to use plpython in PostgreSQL, but it's being downgraded
> to "untrusted" and/or being completely removed because Python's rexec
> went away. Why did rexec go away, specifically? I know it had security
> issues, but couldn't these have been fixed? Did the module just have too
> many integral flaws in the design to be worth saving?

http://www.google.com/groups?as_q=rexec%20python-dev


> Is anyone working on a replacement? If not, why not? Even if plpython
> isn't very widely used, I think it's still important for advocacy. I'd
> much rather write Python than PL.

It might well be important for advocacy if it's insecure in some
important sense -- just not for advocates of Python ;-)

Have you considered using Jython, and making use of Java's sandbox
scheme?  Google tells me PostgreSQL can do Java stored procedures, but
I don't know whether it's feasible to get Jython running in that
environment.


> Anyway, I'm looking for a summary of specific reasons why rexec went
> away without a replacement. I understand completely that it had flaws
> and was insecure; I'm only confused as to why these flaws were
> insurmountable.

There were a couple of known flaws, but I don't think the problem was
that they were insurmountable -- rather, it was just that the manpower
and eyeball-power was (and is) not there to get to a point where
people could be justifiably confident in rexec.


John



From zathras at thwackety.com  Thu Jul 17 11:11:58 2003
From: zathras at thwackety.com (Michael Sparks)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 16:11:58 +0100 (BST)
Subject: Co-routines
In-Reply-To: <pBxRa.308$fF.9875@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0307171606560.9020-100000@pingu.thwackety.com>

On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 thewrights at ozemail.com.au wrote:
> >From the python grammar:
>
>     funcdef    ::= "def" funcname "(" [parameter_list] ")" ":" suite
>
> I want the statements in <suite> to be executed [lockstepped]
> on a statement by statement basis, with no particular restrictions on
> *what* those statements are.

Tricky - without jumping in before the code is compiled by python or
similar then I can't think of any way to do this. I can however think of a
perlesque way to do it. (ie should work, might not be considered nice)

One possible way out is if you're willing to change the way you write &
run code /slightly/.

Rather than write:
   def func(arg):
      arg.foo()
      arg.bla()
      while arg.foobar():
         print arg.state()
         arg.bla()

If you write this in your source files:
   def func(arg):
      arg.foo();
      arg.bla();
      while arg.foobar():
         print arg.state();
         arg.bla();

Before you run these files you could pre-process them to change all
occurances of ";" to "; yield <num>". Clearly you could do this
pre-processing in python and then exec the code. ie your preprocessor
would change the above code fragment to:

   def func(arg):
      arg.foo(); yield 1
      arg.bla(); yield 2
      while arg.foobar():
         print arg.state(); yield 3
         arg.bla(); yield 4

Then to run your functions in lockstep, you simply:

gens = [ x() for x in [func1, func2, func3, func4 ]
while gens:
   newgens = []
   foreach gen in gens:
      try:
         gen.next()
         newgens.append(gen)
      except StopIteration:
         pass
   gens = newgens

(Working on the assumption the generators for different functions will run
for differing periods of time)

About the only way I can see this working "simply" is using this sort of
pre-processing trick. I doubt it'd be considered Pythonic. (Personally I
view as more like a perlesque trick) It does however leave your code
looking single threaded (in fact I suppose it still is if you don't
preprocess it), and doesn't require any odd code structuring. (It does
require care if you use semi-colons inside strings/etc)

HTH,

Michael.





From brian at sweetapp.com  Mon Jul 14 21:49:57 2003
From: brian at sweetapp.com (Brian Quinlan)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 18:49:57 -0700
Subject: anything like C++ references?
In-Reply-To: <m3j6hvgk73bgkn9vhuqj2rnuj9lvhu0tda@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <000901c34a73$656db950$21795418@dell1700>

> > > What I specifically want is a way to have a "second-level
> > > binding", e.g. a reference to a reference (assuming that the
> > > terminology is correct by saying that all Python variables are
> > > references).
> >
> > What for?  What would be the practical use for such a thing?
> 
> "Why would you want a bike when you have a car?"
> 
> I would say that I wanted it because I thought it would be the
> most straight-forward solution to the problem, so I thought I'd
> ask.

You haven't articulated your actual problem. Doing so might shed some
light on the practical aspects of this issue.

Cheers,
Brian





From tjreedy at udel.edu  Mon Jul 14 22:33:10 2003
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 22:33:10 -0400
Subject: (Suggestion) Download Options
References: <221d8dbe.0307140147.6417e501@posting.google.com> <3F12FAA4.58026440@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <MSKdneAYyqZ6-o6iU-KYuQ@comcast.com>

"Peter Hansen" <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message
news:3F12FAA4.58026440 at engcorp.com...
> srijit at yahoo.com wrote:
> >
> > Can we have a download option for upcoming Python 2.3 without
TCL/Tk?
> > Though I know the extremely popular Tkinter is the default GUI of
> > Python, I see one immediate advantage of a download option without
> > TCL/Tk
> > 1) Download size is less and it is a boon for people like me with
slow
> > modem connection.
> > 2) Tkinter with TCL/TK can be a separate add-on
> >
> > I look forward to opinions from members.
>
> Maybe this should be written up as a PEP?  See
> http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0001.html for more information.

Disagree.  This has nothing to do with Python the language.  Anyone is
free to make and host alternate distributions.  ActiveState does one
with even more batteries included.  Some else could do one with
fewer -- in fact, I believe this has maybe been done in the past.

TJR





From duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk  Mon Jul 21 09:55:34 2003
From: duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk (Duncan Booth)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 13:55:34 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Python scripting with Paint Shop Pro 8.0
References: <kl3lhvgh5iillo5g9jvff92qkc8i2022nm@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <Xns93BF9795781C7duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

Marc Wilson <marc at cleopatra.co.uk> wrote in
news:kl3lhvgh5iillo5g9jvff92qkc8i2022nm at 4ax.com: 

> I'm a complete Python newbie, though I know at least one regular in
> here. :) 
> 
> I've just got Paint Shop Pro 8.0, and the functionality of the old
> ImageRobot add-on has been replaced with the new Python Scripting.
> 
> So far, OK.
> 
> What I'm trying to determine is: can I run these scripts from a
> command-line invocation?  I want to use the scripts to automatically
> convert files as they arrive, uploaded onto a website, not
> interactively. 

Have you tried running a script from the commandline?

> 
> Has anyone played with this?

I just downloaded the PSP8 evaluation. It installs with a bunch of sample 
scripts. These sample scripts all have a file extension .PspScript, and the 
file association set up by the installer associates .PspScript with the 
command: "...\Paint Shop Pro.exe" "/Script" "%1"

Unfortunately whenever I start Paintshop pro it gives me a popup window 
telling me its an evaluation copy and requiring me to confirm the window 
before it proceeds. When started with a script that uses a dialog there 
appears to be a deadlock as the script cannot proceed with this window 
displayed, and the window won't accept any input. It works alright though 
for scripts that don't try to do anything interactive, and I would guess 
that a properly registered copy of the program would run scripts with 
dialogs correctly, but you are probably in a better situation to determine 
that than anyone on this newsgroup.

-- 
Duncan Booth                                             duncan at rcp.co.uk
int month(char *p){return(124864/((p[0]+p[1]-p[2]&0x1f)+1)%12)["\5\x8\3"
"\6\7\xb\1\x9\xa\2\0\4"];} // Who said my code was obscure?



From richie at entrian.com  Tue Jul 29 04:05:53 2003
From: richie at entrian.com (Richie Hindle)
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 09:05:53 +0100
Subject: Seeing next character in an file
In-Reply-To: <bg3kol$69u$0@216.39.172.122>
References: <CDFUa.42241$wk4.27296@twister.nyroc.rr.com> <pan.2003.07.27.03.01.52.505599@rochester.rr.com> <bg12ih$70l$0@216.39.172.122> <mailman.1059393521.4012.python-list@python.org> <bg3kol$69u$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <94aciv4hfuq7vq1p4d54vbhvk0j5f5tuq4@4ax.com>

[Richie]
> seek() works perfectly with text-mode files as long as you only seek to
> places given to you by tell().  So if Keith's peek() function had used
> tell() and then seek()ed (sought()? 8-) back to that point like his
> peekline() does, there would be no problem.

[Bengt]
> Can you cite a C or C++ standard section that guarantees that seek/tell
> will work that way in text mode? (I'm not saying there isn't one, but
> I couldn't find one quickly ;-)

ANSI C, ISO/IEC 9899:1990, section 7.9.9.2: "For a text stream, either
offset shall be zero, or offset shall be a value returned by an earlier
call to the ftell function on the same stream and whence shall be
SEEK_SET."

-- 
Richie Hindle
richie at entrian.com





From adsheehan at eircom.net  Mon Jul  7 10:40:36 2003
From: adsheehan at eircom.net (Alan Sheehan)
Date: 7 Jul 2003 07:40:36 -0700
Subject: SWIG and Python in use?
Message-ID: <f4a45085.0307070640.3c619c22@posting.google.com>

Hi,

I am considering scripting a large C++ application.

In particular I am interested in test driving and end-user scripting
the "application layer" in Python and giving it access to a large
collection of C++ objects and their methods.

I note that SWIG is a mature tool and refers to supporting Python
v1.x.

Has/Does anyone use SWIG to bind with Python 2.x ?. 

Does it still work?
Any pitfalls, caveats ?

Thanks in advance.

Alan



From ulope at gmx.de  Sun Jul 20 20:36:22 2003
From: ulope at gmx.de (Ulrich Petri)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 02:36:22 +0200
Subject: Possible use of Python for a voting machine demo project -- your feedback requested
References: <P9DSa.111436$Io.9552373@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <bff6jb$e8goe$1@ID-67890.news.uni-berlin.de> <7xk7acai97.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <bffci8$dhir7$1@ID-67890.news.uni-berlin.de>

"Paul Rubin" <http://phr.cx at NOSPAM.invalid> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:7xk7acai97.fsf at ruckus.brouhaha.com...
> "Ulrich Petri" <ulope at gmx.de> writes:
> > "Alan Dechert" <adechert at earthlink.net> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
> > news:P9DSa.111436$Io.9552373 at newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
> >
> > Sorry but why on earth you dont just print that on paper and let people
make
> > their crosses where they want?
>

< snip detailed explanation>

Thanks for explaining this to me.
But i wonder why you simply dont use paper and pens?

Here in germany we also have elections where more than one thing is voted
upon but if that is the case we have a seperate ballot for each of those
descisions and they all go into different "boxes" and are counted by
different people. To be honest i was quite shocked when i saw that ballot
mockup of the OP that was VERY confusing...

here is a sample of a normal ballot we use:
http://www.iwi-willendorf.de/wahlzettel.jpg

This one was from the election of the german bundestag (parliament)
Fore other things (like tax on soda ;) the ballots looke quite similar but
with only two or so options to choose from on them....

But i think this is going rather OT now :)

Ciao Ulrich







From T.A.Meyer at massey.ac.nz  Tue Jul 15 18:44:30 2003
From: T.A.Meyer at massey.ac.nz (Meyer, Tony)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 10:44:30 +1200
Subject: FCNTL module deprecation warning
Message-ID: <1ED4ECF91CDED24C8D012BCF2B034F1302644476@its-xchg4.massey.ac.nz>

Thanks to those that answered the question; I understand the problem
now.  (it's a WinXP system).

> Python natively is case-sensitive.  Windows 9x and later, and
> OS/2 with HPFS file systems, are case-insensitive but 
> case-preserving.  So Python relies on the case preservation 
> when trying to match a filename to a module name.

My question is then why the 2.3b2 Windows binary bothers installing the
FCNTL.py file.  fnctl isn't available on Windows anyway (going by the
docs and that there isn't a fnctl.py file installed).

Shouldn't the correct behaviour be to raise an ImportError if a windows
user tries to import fcntl or FCNTL?  Just like trying to "import mac"
or "import posix"?

The way it is just causes useless warnings to Windows users -
particularly users of httplib :)

=Tony Meyer




From R.Brodie at rl.ac.uk  Tue Jul  1 04:12:13 2003
From: R.Brodie at rl.ac.uk (Richard Brodie)
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 09:12:13 +0100
Subject: (Numeric) should -7 % 5 = -2 ?
References: <87k7b6cf3d.fsf_-_@schedar.com> <mailman.1056836805.17229.python-list@python.org> <290620030817191641%pecora@anvil.nrl.navy.mil> <3g32gvcolis4485956egtc35akm6lh3uq5@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <bdrfpd$j6e@newton.cc.rl.ac.uk>

"Tim Roberts" <timr at probo.com> wrote in message news:3g32gvcolis4485956egtc35akm6lh3uq5 at 4ax.com...

> Contradicting Fredrik, something I do with great reluctance, the C standard
> specifies that the behavior is implementation-defined, so in fact BOTH answers
> "implement C semantics".

Only if you're looking at an old version of the standard; it's not implementation
dependent in C99.





From jzgoda at gazeta.usun.pl  Mon Jul 14 09:19:12 2003
From: jzgoda at gazeta.usun.pl (Jarek Zgoda)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 13:19:12 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: training for newbies
References: <betqim$8re$1@atlantis.news.tpi.pl> <betv87$4jq$1@atlantis.news.tpi.pl> <beu851$hu$1@atlantis.news.tpi.pl>
Message-ID: <beuakg$8lf$1@nemesis.news.tpi.pl>

OM <omega at silvreus.eu.org> pisze:

>> > do you know any sites with free programs for newbies, which will
>> > help me in
>> > progress? i know that only way to develop is writing programs, but
>> > in my book i don't have programs to write, only questions..
>>
>> Check out http://www.uselesspython.com and Python Cookbook at
>> http://aspn.activestate.com
> 
> Dzieki:] A polskie ?

You can find Polish translation of original Guido tutorial at
http://www.python.org.pl. There are some links to other documents in
Polish too. Anyway, you can ask your questions in Polish at
pl.comp.lang.python newsgroup.

-- 
Jarek Zgoda
Registered Linux User #-1
http://www.zgoda.biz/ JID:zgoda at chrome.pl http://zgoda.jogger.pl/



From alexis.francart at nospam.xagagroup.com  Wed Jul  9 07:58:20 2003
From: alexis.francart at nospam.xagagroup.com (Alexis Francart)
Date: 9 Jul 2003 11:58:20 GMT
Subject: importing re in Jython
References: <Xns93B386C32C053alexisfrancartnospam@193.252.19.141>
Message-ID: <Xns93B38D7BC38DEalexisfrancartnospam@193.252.19.141>

Alexis Francart <alexis.francart at nospam.xagagroup.com> wrote in
news:Xns93B386C32C053alexisfrancartnospam at 193.252.19.141: 

> Do you know how i can import the RE module in Jython?

Ok i've managed to import it. I'm new to jython and python so i think this 
is basic but unless the command line you have got to enter the whole pass 
in the script so ihave to enter 

from org.python.modules import re

instead of a simple

import re

thanks for your help



From hokiegal99 at hotmail.com  Sun Jul 13 14:19:52 2003
From: hokiegal99 at hotmail.com (tubby tudor)
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 14:19:52 -0400
Subject: removing spaces from front and end of filenames
Message-ID: <Law11-F41xpTljBOh8s00009204@hotmail.com>

Thanks for the tip Jeff. That's the same conclusion that I cam to. I'm new 
to python and programming in general, but having a language as intuitive as 
python and a list as helpful as this makes it easy. I can actually solve 
problems. Thanks again.


>From: Jeff Epler <jepler at unpythonic.net>
>To: hokiegal99 <hokiegal99 at hotmail.com>
>CC: python-list at python.org
>Subject: Re: removing spaces from front and end of filenames
>Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 11:18:50 -0500
>
>On Sun, Jul 13, 2003 at 08:44:05AM -0700, hokiegal99 wrote:
> > Erik Max Francis <max at alcyone.com> wrote in message 
>news:<3F10BABB.D548961B at alcyone.com>...
> > > hokiegal99 wrote:
> > >
> > > > This script works as I expect, except for the last section. I want 
>the
> > > > last section to actually remove all spaces from the front and/or end
> > > > of
> > > > filenames. For example, a file that was named "  test  " would be
> > > > renamed "test" (the 2 spaces before and after the filename removed).
> > > > Any
> > > > suggestions on how to do this?
> > >
> > > That's what the .strip method, which is what you're using, does.  If
> > > it's not working for you you're doing something else wrong.
> >
> > for root, dirs, files in os.walk('/home/rbt/scripts'):
> >      for file in files:
> >          fname = (file)
> >          fname = fname.strip( )
> > print fname
> >
> > When I print fname, it prints the filenames w/o spaces (a file named "
> > test " looks like "test"), but when I ls the actual files in the
> > directory they still contain spaces at both ends. That's what I don't
> > understand. It seems that .strip is ready to remove the spaces, but
> > that it needs one more step to actually do so. Any ideas?
>
>Surely you need to actually rename the file:
>     for root, dirs, files in os.walk('/home/rbt/scripts'):
>         for name in files:
>             newname = name.strip()
>             if newname != name: os.rename(name, newname)
>
>Jeff

_________________________________________________________________
The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE*  
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From jtuc at ev1.net  Tue Jul 29 10:35:11 2003
From: jtuc at ev1.net (Jordan Tucker)
Date: 29 Jul 2003 07:35:11 -0700
Subject: Cannot register dll created using "py2exe --com-dll"
References: <57de9986.0307290052.688e54c5@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <467c9d67.0307290635.8bc8fe6@posting.google.com>

> I'm feeling quite dumb this morning.
> 

Don't feel dumb, I'm having the same error. The sample server builds
fine for me, both inproc and localserver. But when I try to convert
our COM server EXE to an inproc dll, I get the same error as you. I
figured it was something going wrong on the python side, so I
redirected stdout to a file and got this:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<string>", line 1, in ?
  File "<string>", line 56, in DllRegisterServer
  File "win32com\server\register.pyc", line 388, in RegisterClasses
AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'argv'

The offending line of code at 388 is:
      scriptDir = os.path.split(sys.argv[0])[0]

Somehow sys is no longer sys :) I planned to track it down this
morning and post a report/fix, but I checked the newsgroup first.
Seems like Thomas and Mark can have a go at it now too :p

Jordan



From peter at engcorp.com  Wed Jul 16 11:05:09 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 11:05:09 -0400
Subject: Choosing the right framework
References: <mailman.1058360129.5550.python-list@python.org> <bf3m3m$afoig$1@ID-63505.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <3F1569A5.E2080312@engcorp.com>

Thomas G?ttler wrote:
> 
> Carsten Gehling wrote:
> 
> > Oh how often this subject may come up...
> >
> > The thing is, I've come to the decision of abandoning PHP as much as
> > possible (old projects still remain...), and use Python for all purposes.
> > Reason: One language to fit it all (instead of having one language for
> > webprogramming, one for batches, etc...)
> 
> Where do you want to store your data? [relational database, text files,
> ZODB, Berkley DB, pickles, ...]
> 
> If you don't need ZODB (object database), I would not use Zope.

Even if you want ZODB, you can always use the standalone one, and still
skip Zope, if that's what you want.



From anton at vredegoor.doge.nl  Fri Jul 18 10:09:09 2003
From: anton at vredegoor.doge.nl (Anton Vredegoor)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 16:09:09 +0200
Subject: OT: Genetic Algorithm Recipe Bug Fix
References: <JwYMa.5801$eF3.719843@news20.bellglobal.com> <beh8ad$dm0$1@news.hccnet.nl> <mailman.1057764616.4199.python-list@python.org> <bf5s6m$occ$1@news.hccnet.nl> <bf89es$5hd$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <bf8v6k$4pf$1@news.hccnet.nl>

"Andrew Dalke" <adalke at mindspring.com> wrote:

>I haven't followed the thread, just pinged on 'maximum clique problem.'
>
>Does this help?
>  http://starship.python.net/crew/dalke/clique/
>
>It's code I wrote years ago.  Don't ask me any more questions about
>it .... unless you want to pay me for it.  :)

It helps a little. Whether I want to pay you depends on what you eat.

Anton




From dave at pythonapocrypha.com  Mon Jul  7 12:19:26 2003
From: dave at pythonapocrypha.com (Dave Brueck)
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 16:19:26 +0000
Subject: A story about Python... sort of
In-Reply-To: <yw4Oa.22149$Ey6.10815@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net>
References: <3f03f430$0$97222$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk> <mailman.1057533613.9015.python-list@python.org> <yw4Oa.22149$Ey6.10815@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net>
Message-ID: <200307071619.26693.dave@pythonapocrypha.com>

On Monday 07 July 2003 02:02 am, Russell Reagan wrote:
> > There came a time when it was no longer economically viable to develop an
> > entire game in assembly, and IMO we've *already* passed the point where 
> > no longer economically viable to develop most games entirely in C++ - the
> > time to market is too long, it's too expensive to add new features,
> > recovering from early incorrect decisions is too costly, etc. Games are
> > moving to higher-level languages as much as they can because it's a
> > competitive advantage to do so.
>
> After thinking about it I tend to agree. I'm a little partial to C/C++
> because I develop (as a hobby) a chess playing program, and I like
> tinkering with it to see how fast it can go, and finding clever ways of
> doing things. A chess program is different from a 3D game in that with a 3D
> game, you can stop at some point and say, "ok, this is fast enough." There
> is little point in making the game run at 1000 frames per second if no
> human eye can see more than 60 (or whatever the number is). 

True, although rather than let the frame rate continue up the game designers 
will simply add more polygons, more actors, more textures, greater viewable 
distance, etc. so they won't ever reach the "fast enough" point either. 
Instead you always reach the "fast enough for now" limit.

There will remain *some* cases where you need a lower-level language in order 
to get more speed, but those cases are becoming less frequent - for each one 
there comes a time when the cost of that extra speed becomes too much. Also, 
some projects (like Pysco) open the possibility of on-par (or even greater, 
in theory) speed by using a higher-level language.

But my main point was that, at least for the stuff I do, there's never any 
point in writing all or even most of an application in C++ anymore (and the 
few parts that do need more speed would be in a dumbed-down, simplified C++ 
at that). If I were writing the chess game I'd probably write the entire 
thing in Python to begin with anyway, just to get it working. Having a slow, 
but working app would either help maintain my interest in the project or let 
me know early on that it's not something I really want to do. 

If I kept at it then I could, at some point, move some speed-critical code to 
C or C++, but I'd try to avoid it for as long as possible. For example, you 
mentioned that your interest was at least in in part about finding ways to do 
things faster or to make the game smarter. In a higher-level language like 
Python that sort of expermimentation is relatively cheap - in C++ you might 
avoid radical experiments because the cost of change is too high. Your 
biggest speed and smartness improvements after picking the low-hanging fruit 
are likely to be algorithmic in nature (e.g. using a more ingenious heuristic 
to reduce the search space of next moves) as opposed to low-level tuning of 
loops or data storage, so it would be advantageous to do that work at as high 
a level as possible (and you can always translate those algorithmic 
optimizations to a lower-level language someday if you want). 

Just my two cents of course,
-Dave




From T.A.Meyer at massey.ac.nz  Tue Jul 15 04:23:08 2003
From: T.A.Meyer at massey.ac.nz (Meyer, Tony)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 20:23:08 +1200
Subject: FCNTL module deprecation warning
Message-ID: <1ED4ECF91CDED24C8D012BCF2B034F1302644325@its-xchg4.massey.ac.nz>

(I did try to google for an answer to this, but couldn't find anything,
although plenty of instances of the warning).

I don't understand this warning:
>>> import fcntl
C:\Program Files\Python23\lib\fcntl.py:7: DeprecationWarning: the FCNTL
module is deprecated; please use fcntl
  DeprecationWarning)
>>> 

It seems to be saying that I shouldn't use "import FCNTL" (which gives
the same warning), but "import fcntl", but that's what I _am_ doing.

(I don't actually even import fnctl, but httplib does, and causes this
all over the place.

Any light shedding would be appreciated.

=Tony Meyer




From trentm at ActiveState.com  Tue Jul  8 12:40:57 2003
From: trentm at ActiveState.com (Trent Mick)
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 09:40:57 -0700
Subject: process.py problems
In-Reply-To: <20030708153117.127C0326C0@www.fastmail.fm>; from justinjohnson@fastmail.fm on Tue, Jul 08, 2003 at 09:31:17AM -0600
References: <20030708153117.127C0326C0@www.fastmail.fm>
Message-ID: <20030708094057.C9520@ActiveState.com>

Justin,

Can you try turning logging on in process.py to perhaps get a better
picture of what it is trying to do. Look for the "internal logging"
section. There should be some "if 0"s that you can turn to "if 1"s for
debugging. (Or vice versa -- my process.py version is a little bit
different than the public one.)

My guess: process.py, in some cases, will try to run command via the
local shell (i.e. cmd.exe or command.com on Windows). This is necessary
for some commands like "dir" which are not executables themselves but
just a part of the shell. However, process.py is not as clean as it
should be on when it does and when it does not use the shell. Perhaps
process.py is not using the shell when it should here.

... note, there may also be a problem with respect to which.py and
process.py version mismatch. which.py 1.x changed its API from which.py
0.x and process.py may not be dealing with that correctly. I may need to
put up a new process.py to get that right. What is the output of:
    which --version
or:
    >>> import which
    >>> which._version_

Cheers,
Trent

[Justin Johnson wrote]
> Hello,
> 
> I was wondering if anyone has seen this behavior before for the
> process.py
> module available at http://starship.python.net/crew/tmick/.  I've been
> using it quite well on windows 2000 servers, but when I try to use it on
> a window nt 4.0 box I get the results posted below.  I have both
> process.py and which.py installed.
> 
> Any help you can provide is greatly appreciated.
> 
> >>> import process
> >>> p = process.ProcessOpen("dir")
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
>   File "process.py", line 1108, in __init__
>     self._startOnWindows()
>   File "process.py", line 1279, in _startOnWindows
>     cmd = _fixupCommand(cmd, self._env)
>   File "process.py", line 506, in _fixupCommand
>     cmd = _whichFirstArg(cmd, env)
>   File "process.py", line 315, in _whichFirstArg
>     candidates = list(which.which(first))
>   File "which.py", line 251, in which
>     raise WhichError("Could not find '%s' on the path." % command)
> which.WhichError: Could not find 'dir' on the path.
> >>> p = process.ProcessOpen("dir.exe")
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
>   File "process.py", line 1108, in __init__
>     self._startOnWindows()
>   File "process.py", line 1279, in _startOnWindows
>     cmd = _fixupCommand(cmd, self._env)
>   File "process.py", line 506, in _fixupCommand
>     cmd = _whichFirstArg(cmd, env)
>   File "process.py", line 315, in _whichFirstArg
>     candidates = list(which.which(first))
>   File "which.py", line 251, in which
>     raise WhichError("Could not find '%s' on the path." % command)
> which.WhichError: Could not find 'dir.exe' on the path.
> >>> p = process.ProcessOpen("cmd")
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
>   File "process.py", line 1108, in __init__
>     self._startOnWindows()
>   File "process.py", line 1295, in _startOnWindows
>     raise ProcessError(msg=ex.args[2], errno=ex.args[0])
> process.ProcessError: The system cannot find the file specified.
> >>> 
> 
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

-- 
Trent Mick
TrentM at ActiveState.com




From duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk  Fri Jul 18 11:08:03 2003
From: duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk (Duncan Booth)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 15:08:03 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Augmented Assignment question
References: <215bhv0bnkn13eivh0s64ic5ml8obpgfg7@4ax.com> <20030716132455272-0600@news.xmission.com> <j0bF/ks/K3gM089yn@the-wire.com> <slrnbhg1vg.1sg.rmunn@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <Xns93BCA332B657Aduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

Robin Munn <rmunn at pobox.com> wrote in 
news:slrnbhg1vg.1sg.rmunn at localhost.localdomain:

> Notice how the id remained the same in list augmented assignment, while
> it changed in tuple augmented assignment. That's because in the first
> example, l is not rebound; instead, the list object that l points to
> gets extended. In the second example, t gets rebound to a *new* tuple
> object. Another demonstration:

Pedantically speaking, l does get rebound. It just happens that it gets 
rebound to the same object which is also mutated. It can be significant in 
cases where you are not allowed to rebind the value e.g.

>>> a = [1, 2, 3]
>>> b = [a]
>>> b[0] += [4]
>>> b
[[1, 2, 3, 4]]
>>> a
[1, 2, 3, 4]
>>> a = [1, 2, 3]
>>> b = (a,)
>>> b[0] += [4]
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<pyshell#7>", line 1, in ?
    b[0] += [4]
TypeError: object doesn't support item assignment
>>> b
([1, 2, 3, 4],)


-- 
Duncan Booth                                             duncan at rcp.co.uk
int month(char *p){return(124864/((p[0]+p[1]-p[2]&0x1f)+1)%12)["\5\x8\3"
"\6\7\xb\1\x9\xa\2\0\4"];} // Who said my code was obscure?



From mertz at gnosis.cx  Fri Jul  4 23:57:23 2003
From: mertz at gnosis.cx (Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters)
Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 23:57:23 -0400
Subject: Least used builtins?
References: <b03e80d.0307040620.2158fd41@posting.google.com>
 <ad052e5c.0307040927.4bfdff07@posting.google.com>
 <mailman.1057341968.10073.python-list@python.org> <czdB/kKkXkPA092yn@gnosis.cx>
 <mailman.1057351809.21438.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <jykB/kKkXMaL092yn@gnosis.cx>         

I don't think any of these are a big deal.  But I see several
motivations for moving a number of the builtins that Bicking disagrees
on.  The breakage could be made small to non-existent by including a
bunch of such things in a file like startup.py that gets loaded
automatically, but that can be changed in principle.

One general point is that getting rid of builtins can make a minimal
Python footprint smaller (and load times slightly faster probably).  For
embedded systems, handhelds, etc. reducing the required memory usage is
a good thing.

A second issue is the PyPy project.  I think it dovetails with that
project to move everything that is a likely candidate for
reimplementation *in* Python into non-core modules.  Doing this is not
strictly a requirement for PyPy, but it fits the style of thinking.

A third matter is my support for the function decorator/mutator idea.
classmethod, staticmethod, and property are nice method mutators, but as
a number of people pointed out in that thread, they are not the only
such modifiers one can imagine.  Moreover, you can implement these in
Python (I incorrectly once doubted this), so spinning them out of core
makes sense from a #2 perspective.

Yet a fourth matter is that I think it would be slightly easier to teach
Python to beginners if __builtins__ did not include a number of
functions that were extremely difficult to explain to novices... and
that are really only of use to fairly expert Pythoneers.  I find that
callable, classmethod, id, intern, and a number of others fall in this
category.  My thinking is that anything meant for experts should need to
get imported by specific request.

All that said, I have neither any control of what happens, nor any
strong attachment to any of my suggested homes for (former) builtins.

|>     enumerate           itertools
|Again, this is idiomatic, and it belongs in builtins.

This one I strongly disagree with.  The fact enumerate is builtin is a
little bit of a wart.  It's really -just like- the family of functions
in itertools; only historical accident introduced it before itertools
came into existence.

|>     filter              functional
|Only because it's become redundant.

I don't at all think filter() is redundant... but I do think that a
'functional' module could grow a lot of extra useful capabilities
(currying, composition, etc).  The usual filter/map/reduce would make a
good start for such a module (and clean up the base interpreter for
those FP-haters out there :-)).

|Definitely not -- these are very important, importing them would be
|obnoxious.  Especially since "isinstance(value, str)" is the preferred
|technique over "type(value) is str".

Actually, I considered listing type() for desired removal to a module.
I suppose for consistency with my purport on isinstance() I ought to
advocate that.

|[super] Again, highly idiomatic, programmers should be discouraged from
|using this name for anything else

Indeed.  But non-advanced programmer won't be using it for its builtin
meaning either.  Just look at all the threads by quite sophisticated
Pythonistas trying to clarify exactly what super() really does.  You
cannot even understand this function without first getting C3
linearization (and even then, figuring out what the different calling
forms all do is still tricky).

|zip, like enumerate, is idiomatic -- importing it does not imply
|anything about your code, that it comes from itertools lends little
|insight into what zip does.

Actually, I don't think a separate zip/izip does any good, nor
range/xrange.  But those are more historical accidents.  I wouldn't mind
seeing itertools have the same kind of status that sys does now.  What's
the last script you wrote that didn't import sys?  You don't technically
need it... until you want to do something with input, output or
arguments :-).

Yours, Lulu...

--
mertz@  | The specter of free information is haunting the `Net!  All the
gnosis  | powers of IP- and crypto-tyranny have entered into an unholy
.cx     | alliance...ideas have nothing to lose but their chains.  Unite
        | against "intellectual property" and anti-privacy regimes!
-------------------------------------------------------------------------





From suresh_vsamy at rediffmail.com  Thu Jul  3 09:49:41 2003
From: suresh_vsamy at rediffmail.com (Suresh  Kumar)
Date: 3 Jul 2003 13:49:41 -0000
Subject: Reading an image file data.........
Message-ID: <20030703134941.15069.qmail@webmail26.rediffmail.com>

An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed...
Name: not available
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20030703/322907de/attachment.ksh>

From jack at performancedrivers.com  Mon Jul 14 16:48:55 2003
From: jack at performancedrivers.com (Jack Diederich)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 16:48:55 -0400
Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Python_Mystery_Theatre_--_Episode_2:__As=ED_Fue?=
In-Reply-To: <3F130ED4.2030804@skynet.be>; from jarausch@skynet.be on Mon, Jul 14, 2003 at 10:13:08PM +0200
References: <VorQa.15236$Kw1.587@nwrdny02.gnilink.net> <3F130ED4.2030804@skynet.be>
Message-ID: <20030714164855.D1005@localhost.localdomain>

On Mon, Jul 14, 2003 at 10:13:08PM +0200, Helmut Jarausch wrote:
> Raymond Hettinger wrote:
> > ACT III ----------------------------------------------------
> > def once(x): return x
> > def twice(x): return 2*x
> > def thrice(x): return 3*x
> > funcs = [once, twice, thrice]
> > 
> > flim = [lambda x:funcs[0](x), lambda x:funcs[1](x), lambda x:funcs[2](x)]
> > flam = [lambda x:f(x) for f in funcs]
> > 
> > print flim[0](1), flim[1](1), flim[2](1)
> > print flam[0](1), flam[1](1), flam[2](1)
> 
> OK, I believe to know why the last line
> print '3' three times, since only a reference
> to 'f' is stored within the lambda expression
> and this has the value 'thrice' when 'print'
> is executed.
> But how can I achieve something like an
> evaluation of one indirection so that
> a reference to the function referenced by 'f'
> is stored instead.

The problem is made up to make a point, just doing
flam = funcs
will do the right thing.  If you really want to wrap the function in a list
comp, you could do

def wrap_func(func):
  return lambda x:func(x)

flam = [wrap_func(f) for (f) in funcs] # wrap during a list comp
flam = map(wrap_func, funcs) # the map() equivilent

more awkward versions of the above:

wrap_func = lambda func:lambda x:func(x)
flam = [(lambda func:lambda x:func(x))(f) for f in funcs]

-jack




From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Jul 14 14:44:40 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 14:44:40 -0400
Subject: www.python.org hacked?
References: <5cf68ce0.0307141017.1f3fe18e@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3F12FA18.B04B400E@engcorp.com>

zman wrote:
> 
> Website has been offline for more than an hour 11:18 PT.

Actually, the site is not offline, but the front page is missing.
All other pages that I've tried are still functional.

Connecting manually to port 80 on fang.python.org shows:

GET / HTTP/1.0

HTTP/1.1 200 OK
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 18:43:37 GMT
Server: Apache/1.3.26 (Unix)
Last-Modified: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 17:32:05 GMT
ETag: "5a751d-0-3f12e915"
Accept-Ranges: bytes
Content-Length: 0
Connection: close
Content-Type: text/html

Have we been hacked, or is this human error during maintenance?

-Peter



From davecook at nowhere.net  Fri Jul 11 15:19:29 2003
From: davecook at nowhere.net (David M. Cook)
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 19:19:29 GMT
Subject: Business model for Open Source - advice wanted
References: <246a4e07.0307100613.fc2fc50@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <55EPa.8760$R92.7900@news2.central.cox.net>

In article <246a4e07.0307100613.fc2fc50 at posting.google.com>, Frank Millman
wrote:

> I would like some advice, and I hope that the good people on c.l.p
> will give me the benefit of their experience.

I was going to point you to this talk on "partnership" billing:

http://www.sdphp.net/node.php?id=10

but I'm having problems unzipping it under Linux, myself; maybe it's OK
under windows.

Dave Cook



From gjego at free.fr  Sat Jul 12 10:54:46 2003
From: gjego at free.fr (Georges JEGO)
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 16:54:46 +0200
Subject: Windows XP - Environment variable - Unicode
In-Reply-To: <3f0e77fc@epflnews.epfl.ch>
References: <3f0e77fc@epflnews.epfl.ch>
Message-ID: <3f102131$0$10879$626a54ce@news.free.fr>

sebastien.hugues wrote:
> Hi
> 
> I would like to retrieve the application data directory path of the 
> logged user on
> windows XP. To achieve this goal i use the environment variable
> APPDATA.
> 

As an alternative,  you can query the registry:

from _winreg import *
key=HKEY_CURRENT_USER
subKey=r"Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Explorer\Shell Folders"
key=OpenKey(key, subKey )
dataDir=QueryValueEx(key, "AppData")
print `dataDir[0]`

gives:
u'C:\\Documents and Settings\\jego\\Application Data'

HTH,
-- Georges




From rosendo at dbora.com  Thu Jul 31 05:35:36 2003
From: rosendo at dbora.com (rosendo)
Date: 31 Jul 2003 02:35:36 -0700
Subject: urllib2 http status
References: <b9e4893d.0307290916.78b358b8@posting.google.com> <87y8yh59zj.fsf@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <b9e4893d.0307310135.230b6608@posting.google.com>

Thanks again John.
The code goes fine.
Rosendo.


jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee) wrote in message news:<87y8yh59zj.fsf at pobox.com>...
> rosendo at dbora.com (rosendo) writes:
> 
> > I'm writing a http client to test some applications.
> > The code below it's the core of the client:
> [snip]
> 
> You're using *both* urlopen *and* add_cookie_header / extract_cookies.
> Don't do that.  urlopen calls those methods itself.
> 
> Also, HTTPError is a subclass of URLError, so your second except:
> suite will never be reached.  I'm not sure what the purpose of the
> empty except: there is, either -- why not just let the exception
> propogate to top level?
> 
> The unreleased version of ClientCookie can do Referer automatically.
> Ask me if you want a copy (the release is waiting for somebody to look
> at an RFE for urllib2 that I've posted).
> 
> Also, Python doesn't use semicolons <wink>, and the second 'argument'
> to except receives an exception, not a exception message (string).
> 
> 
> > Before this code we declare c = ClientCookie.Cookies(), etc......
> > Then i don't know how to know the status of the response, because the
> > property:
> > response.info().status seems not to function like i wait, that it's
> > with an 200, 301, 400, etc.....
> > How can obtein this status?
> 
> If you get a returned response, it's always 200.  For non-200
> responses, urllib2 always raises an exception.  It's probably a wart,
> but too late to change now.
> 
> Corrected code (untested, since incomplete):
> 
> try:
>     start_ts = time.time()
>     request = urllib2.Request('http://%s%s' % (req.host, req.path),
>                               req.data, req.headers)
>     request.add_header("Referer", 'http://%s%s' % (req.host, req.path))
>     c.clear()
>     #request = urllib2.Request('http://www.google.com')
>     try:                    
>         response = urllib2.urlopen(request)
>         data = response.read()
>         headers = response.info().headers
>         #status = response.info().status
>     except urllib2.HTTPError, e:
>         print "URLError: ", e
>         # Note: e.msg, e.code are what you want.
>         # IIRC, HTTPError works just like a response object, too.
>     duration = time.time() - start_ts
> 
>     print ('The result had status: 200 duration: %5.2f http://%s%s' %
>            (response.info().status, duration, req.host,req.path))
> except:
>     print sys.exc_type,sys.exc_value
>     print 'cagadita....' + str(req)
> 
> 
> John



From bokr at oz.net  Tue Jul  8 10:56:37 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 8 Jul 2003 14:56:37 GMT
Subject: Image Streaming
References: <381a2b17.0307072326.211c21b5@posting.google.com> <mailman.1057652599.22950.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <beem35$ard$0@216.39.172.122>

On 08 Jul 2003 03:23:36 -0500, Ian Bicking <ianb at colorstudy.com> wrote:

>On Tue, 2003-07-08 at 02:26, Steffen Brodowski wrote:
>> Hello everyone,
>> 
>> since one week, I'm programming with python. Its a realy interesting
>> tool. I wrote a script for generating barcodes in jpg-format.
>> Everything is ok, but my function "CreateBarcode" should write the jpg
>> data into an outstream. All barcodes will be generate online, without
>> saving the jpgs on harddisk.
>> 
>> Can you give me a tip witch objects I need and how to put the jpg into
>> an outgoing stream?
>> 
>> import Image, ImageDraw
>> def CreateBarcode(SourceString,Linewidth,WriteText):
>>     blablabla
>>     ...
>>     NewImage = Image.new("L",NewSize,Backcolor)
>>     ImgDraw = ImageDraw.Draw(NewImage)
>>     ....
>> 
>>     #How to put the image into an stream?
>
>have that function return the image object.  Then, assuming you are
>doing this in CGI (easily adapted if not), do something like (untested):
>
>import sys
>image = CreateBarCode(...)
>print 'Content-type: image/jpeg\n'
>image.save(sys.stdout, 'JPEG')
>
In case it's windows, I suspect that script will need to be run with python -u
or have some programmed way to ensure binary output.
Of course, if it's CGI it's probably a unix platform, in which case that won't be an issue.

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From kp at kyborg.dk  Tue Jul  8 09:52:52 2003
From: kp at kyborg.dk (Kim Petersen)
Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 15:52:52 +0200
Subject: mx odbc
Message-ID: <3f0accb5$0$13191$edfadb0f@dread15.news.tele.dk>

Regarding ODBC usage in Python...

it seems to me that there is a couple of ways to use odbc from python,
one of these is the MX version - now that one has a pretty steep licence 
cost (imho). So now comes my question (from reading this group quite a bit):

	- what is the basic reason for using MX versus the others?
	- why do you (newsgroup) seem to think that this package is
           the preferred one?
	- in case above is incorrect - what package is preferred?

Note: i have nothing against paying for commercial products - but 75$'s 
for a cpu licence (customer) or >1000$ for a developer single cpu, seems 
to me to be a bit too steep, for a thing thats basically a requirement 
for windows programming....

-- 
Med Venlig Hilsen / Regards

Kim Petersen - Kyborg A/S (Udvikling)
IT - Innovationshuset
Havneparken 2
7100 Vejle
Tlf. +4576408183 || Fax. +4576408188




From db3l at fitlinxx.com  Tue Jul 29 12:53:48 2003
From: db3l at fitlinxx.com (David Bolen)
Date: 29 Jul 2003 12:53:48 -0400
Subject: How to detect typos in Python programs
References: <ZPaUa.6$gZ.133@news.oracle.com> <3F214977.AEB088C8@engcorp.com> <x+VI/ks/K/yd089yn@the-wire.com> <HigUa.9$gZ.31@news.oracle.com> <877k64c0qo.fsf@pobox.com> <vnWUa.7$Sq2.194@news.oracle.com>
Message-ID: <u3cgp5l5v.fsf@fitlinxx.com>

Manish Jethani <manish.j at gmx.net> writes:

> There's a difference between my "abost()" example and the "56"
> example.  There's no function called abost anywhere in the
> program text, so I should be able to detect the error with
> static analysis.  Even in C, the compiler warns about stray
> function calls.

But in your example, you were calling "session.abost".  Due to
Python's dynamic nature, there's no way for a static compile-time
analysis to know for sure if the object to which session (I'm guessing
it's a global from the code) refers _at the point when that code
executes_ has an abost method or not.  Or rather, no way I can see
other than having the compiler actually execute the code to determine
that fact.

Given that you want some specific behavior to occur on a close
connection event, you're really best served by having a test that
actually simulates such an event to verify that your action occurs.
That's true in any language, although particularly so in Python.  It's
certainly best to use automated tests, but even some manual setup for
more complicated network situations can help.  For example, if I were
writing such a system, I'd probably at least manually start up a
modified server that explicitly disconnected more frequently so I
could exercise that aspect of tear-down more easily.  Otherwise
(syntax checks or no), I'd be releasing code without really having any
idea that it would do the right thing in such a teardown situation.

Think of it just as another aspect to "good coding practices".

-- David



From vivek at cs.unipune.ernet.in  Wed Jul 16 05:56:00 2003
From: vivek at cs.unipune.ernet.in (vivek at cs.unipune.ernet.in)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 15:26:00 +0530
Subject: XML <=> Database 
Message-ID: <20030716152600.A1315@cs.unipune.ernet.in>

Hi all,
  
  Is there any module available which does the same work as the XML Integrator 
in Java. Actually I am working in an educational institute, there somebody asked me to teach Java as a part of a Database course. As I am not very good in Java so I asked for the type of assignments they want to give to students. So here is what they told me:

  There will be a three tier architechture. One web application, Web Server,
one Application Server and the Database backend. The Web server will get the 
data as a XML document. This will be passed to the application server that 
will parse the document and will insert/Update/Delete the data in the database
Server. Similarly the data will be retrieved from the database and will be
converted in a XML document by the application server and will be send to the
user's browser through the web server.

I told him that we can use python for this purpose as there are a lot of modules available for XML parsing in Python. And also it will be much easier for 
Students to learn Python as compared to Java. Somehow I managed him to think 
over it :-). But then he asked me :

1. Is there something in Python which will work as an Application server like
   EJB ??
2. He showed me the XML Integrator which is used in Java and which automatically
   parse the XML document,convert it into a query string and insert it into 
   Oracle database backend. And while retriving data it converts the retrieved
   data into a XML document.

I know that there are modules available in Python for parsing XML documents but I wonder if there is something available for converting the data returned from 
database query into a XML document?? Also is it possible to have something like Application server between the Web Server and Database server running each on 
seperate machines, in Python ??

TIA and Kind Regards,
Vivek Kumar




From Jon_Aquino at shaw.ca  Mon Jul  7 16:14:06 2003
From: Jon_Aquino at shaw.ca (Jonathan Aquino)
Date: 7 Jul 2003 13:14:06 -0700
Subject: Pychecker + Jython trick
Message-ID: <fc08a59c.0307071214.3835b989@posting.google.com>

To get Pychecker to work with my Jython files, I had to write some
stubs for the Java classes. Things like:

class SimpleDateFormat:
    def __init__(self, x):
        pass
    def parse(self, x):
        return Date(None)
    def format(self, x):
        return ""

It would be nice to be able to do this automatically. For example,
someone could make a simple tool to generate Python stubs from jar
files.

Jon



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Wed Jul 23 18:34:00 2003
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 18:34:00 -0400
Subject: How is the execution order of 'x = z'? (also: Python FAQ 4.88)
References: <mailman.1058949155.26009.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <IqKcnYqqIITEkIKiXTWJhQ@comcast.com>

"Ames Andreas (MPA/DF)" <Andreas.Ames at tenovis.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.1058949155.26009.python-list at python.org...
> Below is a more selfcontained sample (assume that x, y and z are not
> bound before the code is executed):
>
> >>> class Foo:
> ...     def __del__(self):
> ...             print '__del__(%#x)' % id(self)
> ...
> >>> y = Foo()
> >>> print '%#x' % id(y)
> 0x8152e7c
> >>> z = 0
> >>> print '%#x' % id(z)
> 0x80cbf70
> >>> x = y
> >>> print '%#x' % id(x)
> 0x8152e7c
> >>> del y
> >>> print '%#x' % id(x)
> 0x8152e7c
> >>> x = z
> __del__(0x8152e7c)
> >>> print '%#x' % id(x)
> 0x80cbf70
>
> The assignment 'x = z' calls Foo.__del__.  What I wanted to know is:
>
> Is Foo.__del__ called *before* x refers to an integer object of
value
> 0 or *afterwards*.  In other words, does x refer to a possibly
> (partially) invalid object while Foo.__del__ is executed, or what is
> the Python FAQ 4.88 referring to (within the final paragraph which
> begins with 'Note:', dealing with atomicity of operations replacing
> objects)?

This appears not to be defined by the language reference and is thus
an implementation specific question.  To find out, put 'print type(x)'
in the delete method -- or even 'print x'!  Then post answer ;-)

Terry J. Reedy





From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sat Jul  5 17:21:52 2003
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 5 Jul 2003 17:21:52 -0400
Subject: Name-based insults, round 5 (was Re: A possible bug in python threading/time module?)
References: <mailman.1057347547.21819.python-list@python.org> <c09aca51.0307050856.2ed130f9@posting.google.com> <3F071424.520DC852@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <be7fhg$sit$1@panix3.panix.com>

In article <3F071424.520DC852 at engcorp.com>,
Peter Hansen  <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:
>vm_usenet wrote:
>> 
>> Right after I read Tim's recent post, I went to the python CVS and
>> noted that Tim refered to me as an 'anonymous coward'. Well Tim, I
>> just wanted to say that I appreciate you being part of the community,
>> too.
>
>See http://www.computerhope.com/jargon/a/ac.htm, definition #2.  This
>is a fairly well-known term for someone who, like you, for some 
>strange reason does not want to use their name in discourse with 
>others (such as those who are helping them, hint, hint) online.

(We've just been through this recently, but...) I don't think that the
prevalence of a term says anything about its potential for insult.  I'm
sure you can think of many examples on your own.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

Usenet is not a democracy.  It is a weird cross between an anarchy and a
dictatorship.  



From LogiplexSoftware at earthlink.net  Tue Jul  1 17:50:05 2003
From: LogiplexSoftware at earthlink.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: 01 Jul 2003 14:50:05 -0700
Subject: Suggesting for overloading the assign operator
In-Reply-To: <6f03c4a5.0306301931.3f15fbb7@posting.google.com>
References: <6f03c4a5.0306301931.3f15fbb7@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1057096205.1457.16.camel@software1.logiplex.internal>

On Mon, 2003-06-30 at 20:31, Rim wrote:

> The idea is to separate the value assignment from the type assignment,
> by introducing a new operator, let's say the ':=' operator.
> 
> '=' remains what it is, assigns type and value at the same time
> ':=' assigns only the value

On the surface, this idea seems appealing.  However, besides the
arguments that others have forwarded, you might consider the fact that
given two similar "assignment operators", subtle bugs are bound to
arise.

> >>> class myint(int): pass
> ...
> >>> a = myint()
> >>> a := 6
> type(a)
> <class '__main__.myint'>
> >>> a
> 6

What if the programmer accidentally uses '=' rather than ':=' (and I
think this would be a natural mistake)?  It would be legal Python but
would probably not have the intended effect.  It is not unlike the
"allow assignment in expressions" arguments that come up here every 3.2
weeks.

Anyway, your arguments cancel themselves out.  You asked initially for a
way to overload '=' because your users didn't want to have to type
something different.  But ':=' *is* different, so what are you really
looking for?.  Worse, because ':=' isn't *very* different, it makes
mistakes more likely.

In short, I think using a = myint(6) or even a.value = 6 is preferable. 
Besides, when I used Pascal (many years ago), I found ':=' to be one of
the most annoying (and most common) things I had to type.  Please don't
ask to bring it back.


Regards,

-- 
Cliff Wells, Software Engineer
Logiplex Corporation (www.logiplex.net)
(503) 978-6726  (800) 735-0555





From mwh at python.net  Tue Jul 22 09:36:58 2003
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 13:36:58 GMT
Subject: Where can one get Python 1.4 and Pythonwin 1.0?
References: <41dqhv43pp8d8kb76r2u2sm3bnbbkic4cm@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <7h3d6g2zo3y.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

Richard Lee <i.am at going.in.circles> writes:

> Hi. I need to test and document some really old software. For that, I
> have to install P 1.4 and Pwin  1.0 (the latter which is based on
> P1.4).

Yow!

> Python.org has downloads going back to P1.5.2. And the link to version
> of the earliest Win32 extensions containing Pwin corresponds to
> P1.5.2. 

Didn't look hard enough:

    http://www.python.org/ftp/python/src/

and

    http://www.python.org/ftp/python/binaries-1.4/pythonwin/

look hopeful to me (admittedly, I found these by sshing into
www.python.org and running 'locate', a course of action not available
to everyone...).

Cheers,
mwh

-- 
  Any form of evilness that can be detected without *too* much effort
  is worth it...  I have no idea what kind of evil we're looking for
  here or how to detect is, so I can't answer yes or no.
                                       -- Guido Van Rossum, python-dev



From BartolomeSintes at ono.com  Thu Jul 10 05:38:15 2003
From: BartolomeSintes at ono.com (Bartolomé Sintes Marco)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 09:38:15 GMT
Subject: Windows Python 2.3b2 bug? Edit with IDLE
Message-ID: <buaPa.26828$FN3.2229822@news.ono.com>

Hi,
I am using Python 2.3b2 in a Windows 98 SE machine. If I right-click a .py
file, the menu shows an "Edit with IDLE" option, but when I select it no
IDLE window opens, as Python 2.2.2 did. Is it a known bug, or am I doing
something wrong?
Thanks





From peter at engcorp.com  Sat Jul  5 14:12:14 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sat, 05 Jul 2003 14:12:14 -0400
Subject: sqlrelay
References: <3f070ec0$0$13370$9b77ed8b@news.comundo.de>
Message-ID: <3F0714FE.CD592084@engcorp.com>

Torsten Will wrote:
> 
> http://sqlrelay.sourceforge.net/

>From that site: 

"SQL Relay is a persistent database connection pooling, proxying 
and load balancing system for Unix and Linux supporting ODBC, Oracle, 
MySQL, mSQL, PostgreSQL, Sybase, MS SQL Server, IBM DB2, Interbase, 
Lago and SQLite with APIs for C, C++, Perl, Perl-DBD, Python, Python-DB, 
Zope, PHP, Ruby, Ruby-DBD, TCL and Java, command line clients, a GUI 
configuration tool and extensive documentation. The APIs support advanced 
database operations such as bind variables, multi-row fetches, client side 
result set caching and suspended transactions. It is ideal for speeding up 
database-driven web-based applications, accessing databases from unsupported 
platforms, migrating between databases, distributing access to replicated 
databases and throttling database access."

I think it will also feed your cat...

-Peter



From paul at boddie.net  Wed Jul 23 11:49:14 2003
From: paul at boddie.net (Paul Boddie)
Date: 23 Jul 2003 08:49:14 -0700
Subject: A challenge to the ASCII proponents.
References: <mailman.1058278343.23104.python-list@python.org> <bf167a$pvt$1@panix2.panix.com> <ufzl7rdno.fsf@online.no> <3F142A58.80426AA4@hotmail.com> <2259b0e2.0307161620.4a9353f1@posting.google.com> <Xns93BB246FDDBCFJanC@213.118.75.80> <3F168011.3AEB3EFC@hotmail.com> <3F172442.2040907@v.loewis.de> <3F17C1D4.1A70703A@hotmail.com> <m3fzl3lvg6.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <3F1849A0.CB3053D8@hotmail.com> <amqqhv0gbdok6dnk6ib9342lejpc4ap5pd@4ax.com> <Xns93C160E9ED2F3duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <23891c90.0307230749.44f85fbc@posting.google.com>

Duncan Booth <duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk> wrote in message news:<Xns93C160E9ED2F3duncanrcpcouk at 127.0.0.1>...
> Christos "TZOTZIOY" Georgiou <tzot at sil-tec.gr> wrote in 
> news:amqqhv0gbdok6dnk6ib9342lejpc4ap5pd at 4ax.com:
> 
> > If I may say it sideways, try searching for google for the french word
> > "c?fe", as in "un c?fe s'il vous pla?t".  Wanna bet my message will be
> > the only one to be found? :)
> 
> Since when is 'c?fe' a French word? It doesn't appear in any French 
> dictionary I have tried.

Case closed, as they say in certain circles. I was once told (by a
French speaker) that it was far better, in an ASCII-only situation, to
drop all accents than to use the wrong ones in French texts. For other
Latin-derived alphabets, there are often established rules for the
writing of letters specific to particular languages (and cultures)
using those found in ASCII (eg. ? -> aa, ? -> ae, ? -> oe), but it can
be quite tiring for people like me to interpret them quickly in a
large body of text.

As for the "challenge" and its proponents/opponents, I think it's
shameful that even relatively modern computing standards (eg. things
like HTTP, URLs/URIs) haven't gone far enough to appear inclusive to
"non-ASCII cultures", or at least not without convoluted and vague
edge cases which effectively force people to use ASCII anyway because
of misinterpretations of (or insecurity around) those standards.

Paul



From shoppa at trailing-edge.com  Tue Jul  8 10:02:56 2003
From: shoppa at trailing-edge.com (Tim Shoppa)
Date: 8 Jul 2003 07:02:56 -0700
Subject: Collective memory
References: <mailman.1057083728.8224.python-list@python.org> <vg88va53uha8e@corp.supernews.com> <hff5eb.e9h.ln@escape.shannon.net> <3F082031.3010503@netscape.netNOTthisBIT>
Message-ID: <bec993c8.0307080602.7d5d132e@posting.google.com>

Donald 'Paddy' McCarthy <paddy3118 at netscape.netNOTthisBIT> wrote in message news:<3F082031.3010503 at netscape.netNOTthisBIT>...
> Charles Shannon Hendrix wrote:
> 
> 
> > The problem with Python is that its use of indentation is not the same
> > as COBOL or FORTRAN.  Apples and Oranges.

And it's not the same as Makefiles, either.  Everybody has at one time
been bitten by how 8 spaces is not at all the same in a Makefile as
one tab; and it doesn't help that with many editing/viewing tools that it
is impossible to see the difference.

> > Python uses it for actually determining the logic in your program, which
> > IMHO is dangerous.

Again, it is certainly no use than Makefiles.

> Well, no matter WHAT the language, I find tabs are evil little things 
> that introduce special cases and the need for code to handle them.

Compare that to all the punctuation marks that *some* other languages require.
Remember the Dilbert where PHB complains that his programmers are using
way too many semicolons? :-)

Tim.



From shangius at yahoo.com  Thu Jul 31 05:18:34 2003
From: shangius at yahoo.com (Sami Hangaslammi)
Date: 31 Jul 2003 02:18:34 -0700
Subject: Python speed vs csharp
References: <rkdc7poiachh.1x4jtxjzaf3zo.dlg@40tude.net>
Message-ID: <6298355.0307310118.7e6c437a@posting.google.com>

Mike <mike at nospam.com> wrote in message news:<rkdc7poiachh.1x4jtxjzaf3zo.dlg at 40tude.net>...

> My second question is, is there anything that can be done to get Python's
> speed close to the speed of C#?

If you have a single function that is easy to convert to C, you
should. Wrapping it with, for example, Pyrex
(http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg/python/Pyrex/) is easy enough,
and you'll get the best of both worlds.



From alet at librelogiciel.com  Sat Jul  5 09:12:50 2003
From: alet at librelogiciel.com (Jerome Alet)
Date: Sat, 05 Jul 2003 15:12:50 +0200
Subject: ANN: PyKota v1.12 is released
Message-ID: <pan.2003.07.05.13.12.49.742712@librelogiciel.com>

Hi there,

I'm pleased to announce that PyKota v1.12 is out.

PyKota is an entirely Python written, GNU GPLed, centralized, full
featured, internationalized, and easily extensible, print quota and
accounting solution for CUPS and LPRng under Unix like systems like
GNU/Linux. It can store print quotas information either in PostgreSQL or
in OpenLDAP, and includes many other useful features.

Changes since version 1.09 :

	- Many bug fixes. You'll definitely want to upgrade.

	- A command line utility called 'pykotme' which produces 
          print quotes is now included. This way one can learn 
          in advance how much a print job will cost him on any printer.

Learn more about PyKota, see live reports or screenshots, download the CVS
version or buy an official package from :

  http://www.librelogiciel.com/software/PyKota/action_Presentation

Discuss with us, ask for help, report problems or successes, on the
mailing list at :

  http://cgi.librelogiciel.com/mailman/listinfo/pykota

Thank you for reading

Jerome Alet




From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Thu Jul 10 22:46:09 2003
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 21:46:09 -0500
Subject: more regexp
In-Reply-To: <bel1fh$9vp$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu> (hokiegal99's message of "Thu,
 10 Jul 2003 20:52:07 -0400")
References: <bel1fh$9vp$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <m28yr5u6fi.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

>>>>> "hokiegal99" == hokiegal99  <hokiegal99 at hotmail.com> writes:

    hokiegal99> I can replace all spaces in filenames and directory
    hokiegal99> names with this bit of code: (thanks to all who helped
    hokiegal99> me get this!)

Sorry if I'm missing something since I'm jumping into this thread
late, but if all you want to do is replace spaces, why do you need
regexps?  Can't you just use string.replace?

    hokiegal99> Now, I'd like to be able to search for the '%'
    hokiegal99> character at the begining and the ending of filenames
    hokiegal99> and dirs and remove them entirely. Could someone
    hokiegal99> suggest a way to do this? Any tips are welcomed!

>>> fname = '%Hi%mom%'
>>> fname.strip('%')
'Hi%mom'

See also lstrip and rstrip to remove chars (default whitespace) from
the beginning or end of a string (strip does both beginning and end).

JDH




From adalke at mindspring.com  Thu Jul 31 17:23:03 2003
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 15:23:03 -0600
Subject: looking for design pattern name
References: <bg1lt6$81g$1@slb2.atl.mindspring.net> <glMVa.2873$Jz2.2213@nwrdny02.gnilink.net> <bg976j$s7$1@slb4.atl.mindspring.net> <87adaud0he.fsf@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <bgc141$4le$1@slb2.atl.mindspring.net>

John J. Lee:
> Yuck.  Doesn't the standard library reserve TypeError for occasions
> where the, um, type of an argument is not appropriate?

Quoting from the docs,
   exception TypeError
   Raised when a built-in operation or function is applied to an object of
   inappropriate type. The associated value is a string giving details about
   the type mismatch.

In addition to your comments, this is not a built-in operation, so it's
the wrong exception.

> Why not ValueError or
> your own exception (possibly derived from ValueError)?

  exception ValueError
  Raised when a built-in operation or function receives an argument that
  has the right type but an inappropriate value, and the situation is not
  described by a more precise exception such as IndexError.

Yup, seems reasonable.  I'll change.  Thanks!

See you at the next Calvinball tournament, Spaceman Lee.

                    Andrew
                    dalke at dalkescientific.com





From intentionally at blank.co.uk  Mon Jul 14 23:28:21 2003
From: intentionally at blank.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 04:28:21 +0100
Subject: anything like C++ references?
References: <000301c348c7$3c501980$21795418@dell1700> <jf22hvotj4n0q5tpkg627e3jv61norf93n@4ax.com> <3F11106A.65FDA8F2@alcyone.com> <iqm2hvs77lhe1m71v9b579070khbf0uv0a@4ax.com> <berqqd$ad5$1@panix3.panix.com> <brs2hv8edfv0d1fch9mha8otuulajnkh0g@4ax.com> <8vd6hv0sdvoitccmnj4pdj66ss2vg4ii3n@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <5ir6hvof9m5rjh6i3u992l91un21qtmsh4@4ax.com>

On Mon, 14 Jul 2003 16:15:08 -0700, Tom Plunket <tomas at fancy.org>
wrote:

>Stephen Horne wrote:
>
>> All you have proven is that it is the distinction between types 
>> that get re-bound and those that don't (rather than the use of 
>> references) that is unnecessarily confusing and error prone.
>
>As the firestarter (I apologize for the flames that have
>erupted)

Strong feelings and opinions, IMO, but not really flames. At least
I've been willing to admit the mistakes I've made (or the ones I
recognise, anyway).

>, I must admit that even I know that this distinction
>does not exist in Python.  There aren't some types that get
>rebound and others that don't.

Yes - this was a major mistake on my part. I already confessed and
apologised elsewhere. My making mistakes in my arguments, however,
does not mean that my point is wrong. I believe that my current
arguments are not based on any mistakes I've made.

>I still feel that there's a wart of some sort, but it's not due
>to any inconsistency in the language, despite what I may have
>said before (I've been thinking about it a lot over the past few
>days).

Absolutely the point I've reached, though I've been forced to get a
lot clearer in my thinking to reach that point.

>> A Python user is interested in how an object behaves - not how it 
>> is internally implemented in the interpreter. Immutable objects 
>> don't behave as references - the internal use of references for 
>> immutable objects is basically a lazy copying optimisation and, 
>> apart from performace and a couple of other technicalities (e.g. 
>> the 'is' operator), has no relevance.
>
>Are they really technicalities, though?  I mean, a mutable object
>can be changed.  It's the same object, just changed.  Immutable
>objects, however, can't be changed.  You can get something that
>appears like changing it, but it's actually building a new thing
>and binding the label to that new thing.

Yes. But the thing being changed *is* an object, *not* a value. Values
are always immutable - basic fact of mathematics.

Variables in mathematics are bound to values. I think Python should be
implemented in a way that respects that.

Whether you use objects to represent values, or whether you use some
kind of symbolic representation is an implementation detail which
should be transparent to the user unless the user specifically
requests to deal with the object or whatever.

If I type...

>>> a = [1, 2, 3]
>>> b = a

Then in my mind, the point is that both variables get bound to the
value '[1, 2, 3]'.

The fact that the binding to values might be implemented using binding
to the same object at this point should be, to me, a low level detail.

If I now type...

>>> b[2] = 4

Then the variable b should now be bound to the value '[1, 2, 4]'. That
is the whole point of what I've done. However, the fact that it was
achieved by modifying a part of an object is an implementation detail.
It should not affect the *value* bound to the variable a. In other
words, a new object should be created at that point - a copy of the
original - which would then be modified. That way, the mathematical
concept of variables being bound to values would be respected.

This is not difficult to achieve. The implementations of the C++
standard library that I've seen use exactly the same copy-on-write
mechanism for strings. This method implements a lazy copying
optimisation without violating the concept of variables being bound to
values. That is, the hidden use of pointers or references in the
std::string class is an implementation detail that you don't have to
worry about as a programmer. The programmer worries about the
application - not the low level details of the implementation of the
language or library.

But, like I said before, this isn't about imitating C++. It's about
respecting the common definitions of 'variable', 'value' etc from
mathematics and computer science - something that people do seem to
intuitively expect until the Python way is beaten into them.

To me, 'Pythonic' expresses 'doing the right thing'. In this case, in
my view, Python does the wrong thing and expects everyone to get used
to it.




From skip at pobox.com  Mon Jul 14 11:54:14 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 10:54:14 -0500
Subject: Confusing automated translators.
In-Reply-To: <3F12CE17.76A0A5@hotmail.com>
References: <37d6f77c.0307130932.1e3adf0d@posting.google.com>
        <3f11ac74$0$49101$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
        <ad052e5c.0307131718.4903430d@posting.google.com>
        <3F12808B.E53193B8@hotmail.com>
        <mailman.1058189001.18190.python-list@python.org>
        <3F12CE17.76A0A5@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <16146.53798.759651.430032@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    >> The "Time flies" is a classic.  I heard it a few dozens of years
    >> ago. :-) Another similar classic, for French, is "Le pilote ferme la
    >> porte.".

    Alan> ...  Or have I missed the point completely (I don't consider
    Alan> myself a strong french speaker)?

Not being any sort of French speaker, I don't understand the "pilote ferme"
one at all.  Fran?ois?

Skip




From walter at livinglogic.de  Thu Jul 31 17:24:24 2003
From: walter at livinglogic.de (=?ISO-8859-15?Q?Walter_D=F6rwald?=)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 23:24:24 +0200
Subject: HTML DOM parser?
In-Reply-To: <3f297adb$0$19537$626a54ce@news.free.fr>
References: <7x7k5y5wfh.fsf_-_@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <3f297adb$0$19537$626a54ce@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <3F298908.1030807@livinglogic.de>

adfgvx wrote:

> Try tidy. There are two python wrappers : mxtidy and utidy, the latest is

Where can we get utidy?

> more recent and use the new tidylib. BUT it will only correct a bad html
> page and transform it to an xml or xhtml output that you load after as a DOM
> with another parser. Personnaly I use pyRXP.

Bye,
    Walter D?rwald




From andy at wild-flower.co.uk  Fri Jul  4 18:10:06 2003
From: andy at wild-flower.co.uk (Andy Jewell)
Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 23:10:06 +0100
Subject: strings problem
In-Reply-To: <Sea1-F1553Bw22cwSV00001719b@hotmail.com>
References: <Sea1-F1553Bw22cwSV00001719b@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <200307042310.06414.andy@wild-flower.co.uk>

On Friday 04 Jul 2003 6:41 pm, Jimmy verma wrote:
> Hello *.*
>
> Can you please tell me how can i have the output in no's, instead of string
> from this program:
>
> #/usr/bin/python
> import re
> import string
>
> def csNumEncode(num):
>     if(num>=-107 and num<=107):
>         return chr(num+139)
>     elif(num>=108 and num<=1131):
>         return chr(((num-108)/256)+247) + chr((num-108)%256)
>     else:
>         print 'do nothing'
>
> re_num = re.compile("\-?[0-9]+(\.[0-9]+)?")
>
>
> def CompileCS(source):
>   result=''
>   for tkn in re.split('[ \n\t]+', source):
>     print "Token: %s"%tkn
>     if re_num.match(tkn):
>         result = result + csNumEncode(string.atoi(tkn))
>     else:
>         raise SyntaxError, "%s is invalid operator"%tkn
>   return result
>
> src1 = '50  800'
>
> t = CompileCS(src1)
>
> print t
>
>
>
> The output is
>
> Token: 50
> Token: 800
> \275\371\264
>
>
> Instead of this i want the output should be in no's like this:
> bdF9B4
>
> Your suggestions will be welcomed.
>
> Thanks a lot.
>
> Regards,
> Jim
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Looking for love? Yearning for friendship? http://www.msn.co.in/Romance/
> You're in the right place.

Jim, 

I think you want the hex() function:

>>> hex(0275)
'0xbd'
>>> hex(0275)+hex(0371)+hex(0264)
'0xbd0xf90xb4'
>>> hex(0275)[2:]+hex(0371)[2:]+hex(0264)[2:]
'bdf9b4'
>>> 

hex produces a string from a number, but puts '0x' in front.  I used 
hex(n)[2:]  to chop off the first 2 chars.

hope that helps
-andyj




From lists at gregfortune.com  Tue Jul 15 15:23:31 2003
From: lists at gregfortune.com (Greg Fortune)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 12:23:31 -0700
Subject: Reloading nested modules
References: <mailman.1058132120.31051.python-list@python.org> <m31xwuul39.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <yZCQa.2612$Jk5.1881803@feed2.centurytel.net>
Message-ID: <TnYQa.3168$Jk5.1945124@feed2.centurytel.net>

<snip> 
> I've been intended to write something that will take a module name and
> rebind it in all namespaces that have it currently, but haven't got around
> to it.  If I ever do, I'll post it here :)
<snip

Ok, here's a fairly simple minded attempt.  I have tested it only briefly
and only in a fairly simple case (ie, no massivly nested modules), but it
seems to work ok.  I'm keeping a lookup table of parent, child
relationships as they are encountered and then reloaded so I don't think
nested imports will break it.  It can probably be made more efficient, but
I thought I'd get it out in the wild ;o)

Things it does:
        reloads nested modules

Things it does not do:
        Does not care about mem or effieciency ;o)
        Does not handle any thing imported with the form "from x import *" or 
"from x import y".  I'm not sure if those get handled automatically anyway
as I have not tested that yet.
        It doesn't register itself over the top of the regular reload function. 
This is simple to do, but I can send some notes along if someone is
interested.
        Allow for a nested reload of a single module in all the places it 
occurs. (On the surface, this looks like it may take as long as a full
nested reload, but I'm going to look into the imp module and see if there
is anything there that can speed it up.)


Feel free to offer improvements/flames.  I'm fairly thick skinned so if I've
done anything really silly, let me know ;o)

Greg Fortune
Fortune Solutions

###############################################
reload_utils.py
###############################################

import inspect


def reload_from_root(root):
    if(not inspect.ismodule(root)):
        print 'root is not a module!!  Failing.'
        print type(root)

    #Keeping lists of pairs where pairs are (parent, child) 
    #to establish module relationships and prevent 
    #circular reloads
    reload_me = [(None, root)]
    reloaded = []

    while(len(reload_me) > 0):
        tmp = reload_me.pop()

        for x in inspect.getmembers(tmp[1]):
          if(inspect.ismodule(x[1])):
            if((tmp, getattr(tmp[1], x[0])) not in reloaded):
              reload_me.append((tmp[1], getattr(tmp[1], x[0])))

        reload(tmp[1])
        reloaded.append((tmp[0], tmp[1]))

        
        
###############################################





From manojbalyan at ccmb.res.in  Wed Jul 30 07:18:48 2003
From: manojbalyan at ccmb.res.in (BalyanM)
Date: 30 Jul 2003 16:48:48 +0530
Subject: python in parallel for pattern discovery in genome data
Message-ID: <1059563927.5183.5.camel@E503BMatrixReloaded>

Hi,

I am new to python.I am using it on redhat linux 9.
I am interested to run python on a sun machine(SunE420R,os=solaris)
with 4 cpu's for a pattern discovery/search program on biological
sequence(genomic sequence).I want to write the python code so that it
utilizes all the 4 cpu's.Moreover do i need some other libraries.
Kindly advice.

Thanks

Sincerely,

Manoj

-- 

****************************************************************
Manoj Balyan
Scientist- Bioinformatics
Centre for Cellular and Molecular Biology(CCMB)
Uppal Road,
Hyderabad-500007
Andhra Pradesh,INDIA
TEl:+91-040-27192772,27160222,27192777
FAX:+91-040-27160591,27160311
EMAIL:manojbalyan at ccmb.res.in,
      manoj_balyan at hotmail
WWW:http://www.ccmb.res.in
***************************************************************
If you weep for the setting sun,you will miss the stars:Tagore
***************************************************************







From sfb at alysseum.com  Wed Jul  9 16:16:25 2003
From: sfb at alysseum.com (Simon Bayling)
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 20:16:25 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: .join() question
References: <eo_Oa.14415$BM.4645038@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <Xns93B3D8E314303k23vzqpmre@194.106.32.13>

I would risk a guess that this comes under the "explicit is better than 
implicit" guideline.

''.join([str(i) for i in lst])

Explains to everyone that you know the list has some non-string things, 
and you intend them to be str()'ified.

Intention-guessingly yours,
Simon.

"drs" <drs at ecp.cc> wrote in
news:eo_Oa.14415$BM.4645038 at newssrv26.news.prodigy.com: 

> why does
> 
>>>> ''.join(lst)
> 
> not automatically do
> 
>>>> ''.join([str(i) for i in lst])
> 
> ?  That is, is there ever a time when one does not want .join to make
> everything into a string?  This seems like reasonable default
> behavior, but maybe I'm missing something?
> 
> -doug
> 
> 
> 




From andrew-pythonlist at puzzling.org  Wed Jul  2 06:12:13 2003
From: andrew-pythonlist at puzzling.org (Andrew Bennetts)
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 20:12:13 +1000
Subject: arbitrary long integer aritmetics
In-Reply-To: <bduaof$4qu$1@main.gmane.org>
References: <bdtv1s$22dm$1@otis.netspace.net.au> <bduaof$4qu$1@main.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <20030702101213.GE21059@frobozz>

On Wed, Jul 02, 2003 at 12:05:29PM +0200, Fredrik Lundh wrote:
> "Leo" wrote:
> 
> > i.e. the result of an integer operation is as long as necessary, so that a*b
> > never produces an overflow error.
> 
> what's an overflow error? ;-)
> 
> $ python
> Python 2.2
> >>> import sys
> >>> sys.maxint
> 2147483647
> >>> 2147483647 * 2147483647 * 2147483647
> 4611686014132420609L
> 
> (note the trailing L).

I also note that your Python 2.2 does arithmetic differently to mine:

$ python2.2
Python 2.2.2 [etc etc]
>>> 2147483647 * 2147483647 * 2147483647
9903520300447984150353281023L

-Andrew.





From owski at hotmail.com  Tue Jul 15 13:56:32 2003
From: owski at hotmail.com (Adam Ruth)
Date: 15 Jul 2003 10:56:32 -0700
Subject: anything like C++ references?
References: <b8c3hvsesjoumiboobml3nsnajtha99mp1@4ax.com> <mailman.1058129901.28248.python-list@python.org> <plk3hv0s1m2egf4s34jo6vjedk0q8r2mu9@4ax.com> <hflQa.48826$wk6.12216@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net> <rp94hvc8fg6h91oe7ctqq9jn9ku3nlud1k@4ax.com> <slrnbh6fbc.72v.kamikaze@kuoi.asui.uidaho.edu> <tdo6hvo40qaga46ekamfe65opn2aaa9b41@4ax.com> <slrnbh7l94.mti.kamikaze@kuoi.asui.uidaho.edu>
Message-ID: <f0f51c80.0307150956.6eb917d6@posting.google.com>

I really liked your post and it made me realize something:

Python has different definitions for words like variable, value, and
assignement than the pure 'computer science' version mentioned in this
thread.

And you know what?

The new definitions are better.  Much better.



From mis6 at pitt.edu  Sun Jul 20 10:52:46 2003
From: mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato)
Date: 20 Jul 2003 07:52:46 -0700
Subject: properties + types, implementing meta-class desciptors elegantly?
References: <mailman.1058532630.7342.python-list@python.org> <bfa97g$s5j$0@216.39.172.122> <2259b0e2.0307190640.56266017@posting.google.com> <mailman.1058629890.30475.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <2259b0e2.0307200652.131ed45e@posting.google.com>

"Mike C. Fletcher" <mcfletch at rogers.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.1058629890.30475.python-list at python.org>...
<snip>

As others before me, I am not sure of what you are trying to do
and why you are doing so. I use descriptors in this way:

class o(object):
    class p( object ): # descriptor class
        def __set__( self, client, value, *args, **named ):
            print '__set__', self, client, value, args, named
            self.v=value
        def __get__(self,obj,cls):
            return self.v
    v = p()

s=o()

s.v=3 # v is a p-descriptor

print s.v

# Output:
#__set__ <__main__.p object at 0x4031af8c>
 <__main__.o object at 0x4031c0ac> 3 () {}
#3

Does this code help?


                                     Michele



From mwh at python.net  Tue Jul 29 07:56:54 2003
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 11:56:54 GMT
Subject: Defining/declaring constants in Python
References: <f2800d70.0307280949.75e5faf0@posting.google.com> <hsoaivktfup2to34ubrmv0rt4kf1sfe469@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <7h3fzkpk0lv.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

Christopher Koppler <klapotec at chello.at> writes:

> If you really, really, REALLY want a varia^Wconstant that cannot be
> changed, no matter how hard you try, in Python, have a look at this:
> http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/65207

Of course, it's still possbile to change the values of these
'constants', you just have to muck about quite a bit to manage it.

Making something really, truly, constant in Python is probably
impossible (and certainly hard enough to be a silly thing to do in
real code).

Cheers,
mwh

-- 
  MAN:  How can I tell that the past isn't a fiction designed to
        account for the discrepancy between my immediate physical
        sensations and my state of mind?
                   -- The Hitch-Hikers Guide to the Galaxy, Episode 12



From davidcfox at post.harvard.edu  Mon Jul 21 20:42:29 2003
From: davidcfox at post.harvard.edu (David C. Fox)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 00:42:29 GMT
Subject: Python bug with dictionary
In-Reply-To: <3F1C84F4.3B1E4F9A@n.com>
References: <3F1C84F4.3B1E4F9A@n.com>
Message-ID: <VL%Sa.115271$ye4.84600@sccrnsc01>

none wrote:
> or is it just me?
> 
> I am having a problem with using a dictionary as an attribute of a
> class.   This happens in python 1.5.2 and 2.2.2 which I am accessing
> through pythonwin builds 150 and  148 respectively
> 
> In the sample code you see that I have  class Item and  class Dict
> class Dict contains a dictionary called items.  The items dictionary
> will contain instances of Item that are keyed off of the Item name.  In
> __main__ I create two distinct instances of Dict and 4 distinct
> instances of Item.  By using the accessor method addItem() in Dict I add
> the instances of Item to Dict.  In this case I add  Item1 and Item2 to
> Dict1 and I add Item3 and Item4 to Dict2.    When this is done I print
> out the instances of Dict and of Item.  It appears that the dictionary
> items in each of the Dict instances is the exact same instance even
> though they were created as distinctly separate classes.  The print out
> of the results shows them at the same memory address.  The items
> dictionary inside of each Dict object have the same id when I do
> id(dict1.items) and id(dict2.items).  This means that each of the items
> dictionary in the Dict instances has all four items in it, even though
> each should only have two.   Apparently when I add the first to Item
> instances to dict1 and then the second two Item instances to dict2 they
> are being added to the same items dictionary.

By creating the attributes items and name in the body of class Dict, you 
are creating class attributes which are shared by all instances of the 
class.  When addItem refers to self.items, it finds no instance 
attribute, so it falls back to modifying the class attribute.

What you want to do instead is define

class Dict:
     def __init__(self):
         self.items = {}
         self.name = ""
...

and similarly for Item

David

> 
> 
> class Dict:
>     items = {}
>     name = ""
> 
>     def addItem(self,item,name):
>         self.items[name] = item
> 
> 
>     def setName(self,name):
>         self.name = name
> 
>     def getName(self):
>         return self.name
> 
>     def printItemKeys(self):
>         print "Dictonary Keys:            ",self.items.keys()
> 




From bokr at oz.net  Fri Jul 25 11:57:39 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 25 Jul 2003 15:57:39 GMT
Subject: data conversion question (binary string to 'real string')
References: <bfr9h7$i62j8$1@ID-155280.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <bfrk1j$dkh$0@216.39.172.122>

On Fri, 25 Jul 2003 14:57:57 +0200, Alexander Eisenhuth <stacom at stacom-software.de> wrote:

>Hallo all there,
>
>maby I don't see the forest because of all that trees, but :
>
>from struct import *
>
>
># how can I convert
>f = float(0.5)
>
># with
>bin_str =  pack('!f', 0.5)
>
># now bin_str is '?\x00\x00\x00'
>
>
># to "3F000000" ?????
>
>
That leading '?' is the character representation of a string byte whose ordinal value
is 3F hex, followed by three characters represented by \x00 (whose ordinal
values are zero). I.e., your binary bytes are being represented as characters in a string,
and when it's shown interactively you see the values as a sequence of character glyphs
(or \x.. hex escape representations if no glyphs are available), which is the normal way
to display a string.

If you want the *hex string* representation of that string-represented byte sequence, you can
convert each byte-as-character first to its ordinal value and then the ordinal value to a
2-char hex string representation, and then join those all into a single string,
e.g.,, showing the character transformations:

 >>> [c for c in struct.pack('!f', 0.5)]
 ['?', '\x00', '\x00', '\x00']
 >>> [ord(c) for c in struct.pack('!f', 0.5)]
 [63, 0, 0, 0]
 >>> ['%02X'%ord(c) for c in struct.pack('!f', 0.5)]
 ['3F', '00', '00', '00']

And finally, all you need is

 >>> ''.join(['%02X'%ord(c) for c in struct.pack('!f', 0.5)])
 '3F000000'

Now you have a hex string representation of the network-ordered (big-endian-ordered)
bytes of a single precision (32-bit) float.

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From andy at wild-flower.co.uk  Fri Jul 18 16:58:13 2003
From: andy at wild-flower.co.uk (Andy Jewell)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 21:58:13 +0100
Subject: Python dictionary syntax, need help
In-Reply-To: <56ba0aea.0307181142.7401aa02@posting.google.com>
References: <56ba0aea.0307181142.7401aa02@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <200307182158.13059.andy@wild-flower.co.uk>

On Friday 18 Jul 2003 8:42 pm, Crew Reynolds wrote:
> I want to create a dictionary of note on/off timings and access it by
> the name of the object. The following code works for one row.
>
> a = "Hammer1"
> b = [5,45,45,45,45,50,55,57,59,61,60,59]
>
> notes = {a:b}
> print notes["Hammer1"][3]
>
> >>> 45
>
> The problem is, I want to load the data from a file to populate
> variables a and b and build a dictionary for "Hammer1" thru
> "Hammer10". That way, I can stick the name of the object in the array
> index and receive a list of note timings that I can index with an
> ordinal as in the above example.
>
> This is straight Python syntax but I'm hoping someone has done this or
> understands the syntax better than I.
>
> Thanks! Alternative solutions to this concept would be greatly
> appreciated.


sorry, forgot the file bit...

say notesfile.txt has the following structure:
hammer1, 5, 45, 45 45, 45, 50, 55, 57, 59, 61, 60, 59
hammer2, 25, 245, 245, 245, 245, 250, 255, 257, 259, 261, 260, 259
hammer3, 35, 345, 345, 345, 345, 350, 355, 357, 359, 361, 360, 359
hammer4, 45, 445, 445, 445, 445, 450, 455, 457, 459, 461, 460, 459

then we'd need to do something like:

notes={} # and empty dict
notesfile=file("notes.txt") # open the file
for line in notesfile.readlines(): # iterate through its lines
    words=line.split(",") # split the line up at every ","
    hammer=words[0] # remember the hammer name
    for n in words[1:]: # go through the remaining words 
        try: # We know this could go wrong if the file contains garbage
            notes[hammer]=int(n) # try to convert the string to a number
        except ValueError: # if the conversion went wrong...
            print "Expected number, got:",n # warn the user
notesfile.close() #close the file
  

hth
-andyj




From t.leeuwenburg at removme.bom.gov.au  Thu Jul 17 20:59:23 2003
From: t.leeuwenburg at removme.bom.gov.au (Tennessee James Leeuwenburg)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 10:59:23 +1000
Subject: Jython classpath question
References: <pan.2003.07.17.02.29.12.502474@removme.bom.gov.au> <mailman.1058434712.21226.python-list@python.org> <pan.2003.07.18.00.38.45.833146@removme.bom.gov.au>
Message-ID: <pan.2003.07.18.00.59.22.541043@removme.bom.gov.au>

I can now import every class except the one which I would most like to
import.

The fully-qualified classname is au.gov.bom.aifs.dv.dv.
I can import anything else from the au.gob.bom tree, and also other things
from the dv tree such as dv.LayerManager. It's just dv.dv that is causing
hassles. 

Are there any pitfalls or required naming conventions that I should be
aware of?

Thanks,
-Tennessee



From johnroth at ameritech.net  Wed Jul  2 14:21:35 2003
From: johnroth at ameritech.net (John Roth)
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 14:21:35 -0400
Subject: does lack of type declarations make Python unsafe?
References: <3064b51d.0306151228.22c595e0@posting.google.com> <ad052e5c.0306151904.52cad325@posting.google.com> <1055736914.49032@yasure> <uwufmko7g.fsf@boost-consulting.com> <3064b51d.0306170436.2b31f9e@posting.google.com> <Xns939D905D1B2A3duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1> <usmq86vit.fsf@boost-consulting.com> <9a6d7d9d.0307020959.634ceb4e@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <vg68jh8crns490@news.supernews.com>

"Aaron Watters" <aaron at reportlab.com> wrote in message
news:9a6d7d9d.0307020959.634ceb4e at posting.google.com...
> David Abrahams <dave at boost-consulting.com> wrote in message
news:<usmq86vit.fsf at boost-consulting.com>...
> > Duncan Booth <duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk> writes:
> >
> > I'm not saying that Python isn't a wonderful language -- it is.
It's
> > great to have the flexibility of fully dynamic typing available.
All
> > the same, I'm not going to pretend that static typing doesn't have
> > real advantages.  I seriously believe that it's better most of the
> > time, because it helps catch mistakes earlier, makes even simple
code
> > easier to maintain, and makes complex code easier to write.  I would
> > trade some convenience for these other strengths.  Although it's
very
> > popular around here to say that research has shown static typing
> > doesn't help, I've never seen that research, and my personal
> > experience contradicts the claim anyway.
>
> I'm somewhere on the fence.  I've seen static typing catch errors,
> but I've also seen static typing (in java, say) make the use of a
> hash table into an exercise in code obfuscation.  I'd really like some
> sort of compromise where you could harden types incrementally.  Also
> static typing can make it more difficult for bad programmers to do
> stupid things...
>
> I'd like to see research either way.  I've heard of rumored research
> in both directions.  Personally, I suspect the widely repeated
statement
> "90% of programming errors are typing errors" can be traced back to
the
> 60's when engineers wrote programs on graph paper-like sheets and
> handed them to TYPISTS who then TYPED THEM WRONG onto punch cards.

Keypunch operators. Not typists. Please...
(Been there, done that. The '50s and '60s hacker's motto:
"Sequence numbers are for sissys."

I think you've pretty much got my attitude toward static typing down:
I think it's an oversimplified reaction to a rather real problem.

Notice that 2.2 does several things that static typing claims to do for
you:
Slots makes it impossible to mistype an instance variable name, and
property descriptors allow you to put in whatever amount of type
checking you want on instance bind operations.

John Roth
>
>   -- Aaron Watters
>
> "You mean life is not a fountain???"





From tsteward at dodo.com.au  Thu Jul 10 05:07:06 2003
From: tsteward at dodo.com.au (Tony Steward)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 09:07:06 GMT
Subject: Getting Started with python
Message-ID: <3f0d2cb9$1@news.comindico.com.au>

Hello All,
Ok i've decided to try Python can anyone point me at a simple demo of a
windows program operating a database (maybe an address book) so I can see
how it is done.

Thanks in advance
Tony





From pedro.werneck at bol.com.br  Sun Jul 13 15:13:28 2003
From: pedro.werneck at bol.com.br (Pedro Werneck)
Date: 13 Jul 2003 12:13:28 -0700
Subject: mailbox_reader 1.0.2 -- Python module to read UNIX mailboxes sequentially.
References: <mailman.1058008218.28808.python-list@python.org> <bepqgn$fkc$1@slb9.atl.mindspring.net> <mailman.1058090959.10232.python-list@python.org> <3F11610B.5090200@mxm.dk>
Message-ID: <ef72fb2b.0307131002.11e00f40@posting.google.com>

I agree that for a skilled professional programmer, reinventing the
wheel is a waste of time, but for amateurs like me, it's worth the
learning... for instance, I only managed to understood and use part of
Twisted after trying to write my own simple framework... and sometimes
I prefer to use it, for the simplicity and size...



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Tue Jul 22 18:11:02 2003
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 18:11:02 -0400
Subject: Iterating order of dict.items()
References: <16469f07.0307220706.5e2fe1e4@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <TU-dndBMP63qK4CiU-KYgg@comcast.com>

"Robin Cull" <robin.cull at pace.co.uk> wrote in message
news:16469f07.0307220706.5e2fe1e4 at posting.google.com...
> The order the items comes out in appears to be undefined.

Correct.

> I would have thought that without any other sorting that the items
> would just come out in the order that the dict was defined in,

No, the whole point of hashing keys is to pseudorandomly spread them
more or less uniformly around the storage array with as little
dependence on input order as possible.  This is what make insertion
and deletion close to O(1) rather than O(n) operations.

Terry J. Reedy





From martin at v.loewis.de  Tue Jul 29 00:37:15 2003
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-15?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 29 Jul 2003 06:37:15 +0200
Subject: memory leak troubleshooting techniques
References: <mailman.1059426286.4132.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m3lluilzic.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Adam Deutsch <adeutsch at kaval.com> writes:

> Is there any systematic method of determining how Python is using its
> allocated memory?

In the debug version, you can get a list of all objects through
sys.getobjects. In the non-debug version, you can get a list of all
container objects through gc.get_objects. Check whether these lists
are growing in size.

Regards,
Martin




From wpeterson1 at socal.rr.com  Wed Jul 23 13:45:11 2003
From: wpeterson1 at socal.rr.com (William Peterson)
Date: 23 Jul 2003 10:45:11 -0700
Subject: py2exe command line window problem
References: <1ee79758.0307220827.78f8571@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3d0678bb.0307230945.5d79d70b@posting.google.com>

prashsingh at yahoo.com (Prashant Singh) wrote in message news:<1ee79758.0307220827.78f8571 at posting.google.com>...
> I'm using py2exe to create a standalone executable from a Python
> script, and I would like the script to run invisibly, i.e. without a
> console window and without any interactive GUI. The script is a helper
> app, which simply downloads and runs some other program.
> 
> I've tried passing the -w flag to the script, and I've also tried
> renaming it with a .pyw extension, but when the executable is run an
> empty console window opens with the title "C:\WINNT\system32\cmd.exe".
> I've checked, and there are no print statements, which might cause
> py2exe to assume it's still a console app.
> 
> Is there something I'm missing?
> 
> Thanks,
> prashant.

Not a direct answer to your question, but I've used Installer -
http://www.mcmillan-inc.com/install1.html to build standalone
executables without a console window.

Bill



From kp at kyborg.dk  Thu Jul 10 08:34:05 2003
From: kp at kyborg.dk (Kim Petersen)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 14:34:05 +0200
Subject: Memory leak ??
Message-ID: <3f0d5d3f$0$13154$edfadb0f@dread15.news.tele.dk>

Memory leak - malloc/free implementation - GC kicking in late - know bug 
- or ?

Using python-2.2.2-26 on RH9 (shrike) x86 -fully patched

The following program slowly eats up more and more memory when run on
large datasets... can anyone tell what the trouble is?

i've run it up to 240000 recsets so far - and it eats about .1% of my
mem pr. 1000 (doesn't really matter how much does it?).

-- 
Med Venlig Hilsen / Regards

Kim Petersen - Kyborg A/S (Udvikling)
IT - Innovationshuset
Havneparken 2
7100 Vejle
Tlf. +4576408183 || Fax. +4576408188
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From mgerrans at mindspring.com  Wed Jul  9 13:02:58 2003
From: mgerrans at mindspring.com (Matt Gerrans)
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 10:02:58 -0700
Subject: QUESTION
References: <F7DB8D13DB61D511B6FF00B0D0F062330559722C@mail.hebmex.com> <mailman.1057766175.16425.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <behhs8$e6e$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net>

> I think you might want to be careful about deleting Python from your
> COMPAQ.  It appears that COMPAQ did actually deliver Python on some of
their
> systems:
>
>
http://wingide.com/pipermail/marketing-python/2003-February/001050.html
>
> Deleting Python from the computer may make future upgrades difficult.

Yup, Kevin did the sleuthing, found my name in the scripts then contacted me
and I promised to write up a Python success story
(http://www.pythonology.com/success) about the pre-installation of Python on
HP and Compaq machines.

However, in this particular case, the OP says it was a Windows 98 machine,
which would have been before the HP-Compaq merger, so it is more likely that
the Python was subsequently installed on that machine not pre-installed.
Additionally, the Python pre-installion that I've done for HP Pavilions (and
now also Compaq Presarios) was originally Python 1.5.2, then was (and still
is) Python 2.2, but never Python 2.1.1.   Of course, it is possible that
Compaq was also pre-installing Python on their systems before the merger,
but there is one other piece of evidence which may refute the pre-installed
theory: I don't think Python 2.1.1 and Windows 98 OEMs fit the same
timeframe (maybe WinMe or the first release of XP...).

- Matt





From mwh at python.net  Tue Jul 22 14:17:29 2003
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 18:17:29 GMT
Subject: python22_d.lib?
References: <bfjth8$jq3$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk>
Message-ID: <7h3vftuxwk0.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

"solosnake" <solosnake at solosnake._remove_this_.fsnet.co.uk> writes:

> Well I thought I would take my first few steps in embedding python
> today, and had to stop much sooner then I hoped. Where is
> python22_d.lib? Why is it not in the release? I have 2.2.3, but
> nowhere is there such a library. Must I get the source and build it
> myself?

Yes.

> I'm using MSVC++ 6.0.

Then you shouldn't have too many problems.

Cheers,
mwh

-- 
  If you don't use emacs, you're a pathetic, mewling, masochistic
  weakling and I can't be bothered to convert you.    -- Ron Echeverri



From skodela at lithium.com  Thu Jul 17 22:03:18 2003
From: skodela at lithium.com (sreekant)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 02:03:18 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Anyone noticed any new changes in tkinter
In-Reply-To: <m3wuejm7id.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
References: <bf29o9$nis$1@titan.btinternet.com> <m3wuejm7id.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <bf7kh6$7ji$1@titan.btinternet.com>

Thanks for that.
sreekant





From PoulsenL at capanalysis.com  Thu Jul 31 19:53:59 2003
From: PoulsenL at capanalysis.com (PoulsenL at capanalysis.com)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 19:53:59 -0400
Subject: How to read MS msg file in python
Message-ID: <72F73B808A78D511A73600034771D9FF718616@dc_exchange2.howrey.com>

I have a series of "msg" mail files saved in a folder.  Most files have
attachments in attachments all in the msg format.  Finally nested inside all
of these is a word document.  Has anyone written a tool to read such files
or, ideally, recursively save all the nested attachments in a msg file?
Alternatively is there a method to convert these files into something I can
parse using the email package?

Thanks in advance,

Loren





From anton at vredegoor.doge.nl  Mon Jul 28 07:04:16 2003
From: anton at vredegoor.doge.nl (Anton Vredegoor)
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 13:04:16 +0200
Subject: Python and VS.Net
References: <mailman.1058934395.4215.python-list@python.org> <bflf99$aqd$1@slb9.atl.mindspring.net> <mailman.1058989177.1549.python-list@python.org> <bfo14i$ibh$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net> <221d8dbe.0307272345.63503afd@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bg309p$p2b$1@news.hccnet.nl>

srijit at yahoo.com topposted:

>1) Both Java and .NET are going to stay and keep competing with each
>other for developers' mindshare.

Yes, it's a problem, I would be better to have a general framework but
initiatives by closed source developers can not provide such a thing.

>2) At present Python 2.3 for Windows is based on VC6. This cannot
>continue for ever. I consider absence of compatability of Python with
>VC7/VS.NET as a major threat for Python's future.

Windows is but a platform among many. IMO now would be the time to
drop VC in favor of mingw or another free compiler with public
sourcecode.

<snip point three and four, no discussion here!>

>5) Even now, it is not easy to convince management about Python's
>adavantages in corporate world. It will be come more difficult, in
>future, if Python.NET is not available.

In Europe there is some initiative to use public source code in
governmental settings. Since the world at large is drifting towards a
knowledge based economy, selling computer programs based on
proprietary sourcecode will not be a feasible alternative anymore some
time in the future.

As a result software industries will have to migrate into service
based billing systems, but the bills will be paid by bills as I will
try to explain below. A service industry can be more efficient the
more it knows about its clients and the industry is already deploying
initiatives towards this goal, see for example the microsoft passport
initiative. 

However people seem to get more and more reluctant to provide
information without receiving equal information "value" back because
it's slowly being realized that information is the new money and
industries that do not follow the new information exchange "laws of
nature" will be left behind.

In stark contrast to the old value system that was money based, in the
knowledge based value exchange system one will receive more that will
spend more. The reason for this is that by freely providing
information one enables other information sources to return more
specialized highly valuable information in return, however this value
is also highly personalized. What you want to know is not necessarily
what I want to know. For the moment it is still impossible to make a
computer that thinks better than a human so until that happens humans
will be the producers of the new kind of currency.

Taking these two peculiarities -increasing value return by giving away
value, and highly personalized value production and consuming- it is
clear that only systems that do not cache information or impede
information flow will be the survivors of the new market.

So if one must worry, worry about google compliance instead of about
microsoft compliance ;-) Of course google itself will survive only if
it's not going to make the mistake of trying to sell its service for
money or passwords\email adresses\logins\cookies. Google will get
"rich" just by getting to know what you want to know and by freely
providing this knowledge to those who want to know *that* and thereby
getting to know what *those* want to know, enabling them to freely
provide even more information ... etc. A key concept here is not
forcing the user to provide information, but providing information
based on information request.

>6) Ruby users are also taking initiative to make Ruby work with .NET
>framework. Refer http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&frame=right&th=9fa784e70c5dc0cf&seekm=20030716140638.M85561%40deltadata.dk#link1
>
>I am interested to learn what core python team is thinking about
>compatability of Python 2.x, 3.x with Windows/VC7/VS.NET.

Me too, but this question should probably be asked in the Python
developers mailing list, which according to my analysis above should
be turned into a newsgroup as soon as possible. Also they'd better
answer that they're going to migrate to mingw-compiling soon :-)

Personally I'm still using windows products (w2000 and w98) but I'm
leaning more and more to using Cygwin for Python related tasks, and
unless microsoft is about to make a 180 degree turn in its philosophy
about releasing sourcecode (it has happened before with some company,
see for example netscape) my next OS will probably be Linux or some
other open source thingy.

Anton.



From adalke at mindspring.com  Wed Jul 23 03:23:37 2003
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 01:23:37 -0600
Subject: [OT] RE: Possible use of Python for a voting machine demo project --        your feedback requested
References: <1ED4ECF91CDED24C8D012BCF2B034F13026F8E3D@its-xchg4.massey.ac.nz>        <1ED4ECF91CDED24C8D012BCF2B034F130212AB7C@its-xchg4.massey.ac.nz> <mailman.1058929835.27268.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bflct6$q9h$1@slb3.atl.mindspring.net>

Skip Montanaro:
> Stranger things have happened here...

For example, here in New Mexico, in Southwest US, if there is a tie in
an election then it's broken by a game of chance, like poker or dice.
Every few years there's a tie for a local election which is resolved this
way.

Were electronic voting pushed even more, would that mean we
would end up resolving it with video poker?  I hope not.  There's
something visceral about the two candidates, meeting in front of
the county courthouse, at noon, mumuring "draw", and playing a
game of  Hi-Low.

                    Andrew
                    dalke at dalkescientific.com





From adalke at mindspring.com  Thu Jul 31 18:00:33 2003
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 16:00:33 -0600
Subject: Python's biggest compromises
References: <899f842.0307310555.56134f71@posting.google.com> <viii0hhpj2t5be@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <bgc3ac$daq$1@slb3.atl.mindspring.net>

Edward K. Ream:
> There aren't any [compromises in Python]

There are definitely compromises in Python.  As Christopher Koppler
pointed out, Python does compromise for backwards compatibility.
If you want, you can write "1 <> 2" and it will work, even though that
feature has been deprecated for about 8 years.  Similarly, string exceptions
were deprecated about 5 years ago, but you can still use them.

And now with new-style types you can use

class OldSpam:
   eggs = attribute(_get_eggs, _set_eggs)

class NewSpam(object):
   eggs = attribute(_get_eggs, _set_eggs)

and get slightly different behaviours.

These exist as a compromise between the old way (plenty of existing
source code) and the new way (which provides better ways to do
older behaviours).

                    Andrew
                    dalke at dalkescientific.com





From guettler at thomas-guettler.de  Thu Jul 10 06:17:56 2003
From: guettler at thomas-guettler.de (Thomas =?ISO-8859-15?Q?G=FCttler?=)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 12:17:56 +0200
Subject: Maxmium bufsize using open2?
References: <bejc0u$e0u$1@news.tudelft.nl>
Message-ID: <bejegk$5rjim$2@ID-63505.news.dfncis.de>

Maurice wrote:

> Dear all,
> 
> I've a problem using popen2 when using large files.
> When I use small input files everything works well but when I feed large
> inputfile to the pipe nothing happens. Is there a maximum bufsize for
> using the pipe. The code I use is written down here below. Do I need to
> specify a waittime between line 4 and 5 ?
> 
> 
> o,i =popen2('command '))
> fh=open(os.path.join(self.dirname, self.filename),'r')
> i.write(fh.read())
> i.close()
> self.StringData=o.read()
> o.close()

Hi,

Have a look at the select module.

 thomas




From bkelley at wi.mit.edu  Wed Jul 30 11:16:35 2003
From: bkelley at wi.mit.edu (Brian Kelley)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 11:16:35 -0400
Subject: filter is Python
In-Reply-To: <tq3fiv0io8eviu4epv35t12o89cbuq5lvv@4ax.com>
References: <tq3fiv0io8eviu4epv35t12o89cbuq5lvv@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3f27e0fb$0$3938$b45e6eb0@senator-bedfellow.mit.edu>

Wiebke P?tzold wrote:
> Hi all!
> 
> I have to work with MetaKit. My job is it to filter. For example: If I
> search for the initial letter "P", the programm should all results
> print with this characteristic.
> Couls somebody help me with this task?
> 
> Wiebke

The metakit list is probably the place for this.  See equi4.com for 
instructions.  That being said:


I assume you are filtering a table/view looking at some column.  Let's 
say the table is "foo" and the column is "bar".

def myfilter(row):
     return row.bar[0] == "P"

# return the matching indices
indices = view.filter(myfilter)
# return a new view with only the matching rows
newview = view.remapwith(indices)

Here is a full example:
import metakit

storage = metakit.storage()
vw = storage.getas("test[bar:S]")

data = """My dog has fleas but he is a very good Pooch.
           Sometimes he likes to Play""".split()

for d in data:
     vw.append((d,))

def myfilter(row):
     return row.bar[0] == "P"

indices = vw.filter(myfilter)
metakit.dump(indices)

newvw = vw.remapwith(indices)
metakit.dump(newvw)





From mis6 at pitt.edu  Mon Jul 14 13:30:25 2003
From: mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato)
Date: 14 Jul 2003 10:30:25 -0700
Subject: A few beginning questions
References: <3f129a8a$1@mail.hmgcc.gov.uk>
Message-ID: <2259b0e2.0307140930.4b3c43a5@posting.google.com>

"richardc" <richardc at hmgcc.gov.uk> wrote in message news:<3f129a8a$1 at mail.hmgcc.gov.uk>...
> Ive just started playing with Python and have a couple of questions.
> 
> Im looking for an agument parsing library (from the command line), Ive come
> across optik and argtools.  What other ones are there are any of them any
> good, is there a 'standard' lib for doing this.
>

optparse (a.k.a. optik) is great, whereas I never made my mind up to
getopt. To "cure" getopt, I needed to define my own routines for
argument parsing; after I started using optparse I had the satisfaction
of erasing all of them ;)

I vote optparse as the best addition to Python 2.3!

(okay, well, there are other niceties, but maybe optparse is the
most useful thing; who does agreee with me ?)



           Michele



From khalid.sheikh at silvaco.com  Mon Jul 21 19:52:15 2003
From: khalid.sheikh at silvaco.com (Khalid Sheikh)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 16:52:15 -0700
Subject: Newbie question about strings
Message-ID: <PDECKCFLILIOFDMCOOMNAELOCCAA.khalid.sheikh@silvaco.com>

Hi,

I have been tasked to Integrate Inktomi Search (now Verity of course) 
with our website. I am fairly new to Python. The way the search 
engine is setup is that it has embedded python in a html document. 
After looking at the html code for a day or so, I was able to pin 
point the place where I need to make a change but I am having a hard 
time.

I am assuming

&$self.text(dbcol[docdb].pretty_name); 

prints something in HTML but I am trying to figure out it's 
equivalent 
in Python. I am assuming this is a string and I need to check it's 
value against another string say 'XXY' if it is equal then go ahead 
and print that value otherwise skip to the next item in the 
list/array.


This is what I had before and it worked

<!--$
first = 1
for docdb in docdbs:
if not dbcol.has_key(docdb): continue
if first: first = 0; --> <!--$
else: -->, <!--$
-->Test< &$self.text(dbcol[docdb].pretty_name); >Test<!--$
if not first: -->

when run this prints 

Test< XXY >Test, Test< ABCD >Test 

I want it to print only when the string is equal to XXY. otherwise 
skip to the next string. This is the edited code that I have so far.


<!--$
first = 1
for docdb in docdbs:
if not dbcol.has_key(docdb): continue
if first: first = 0; --> <!--$
else: -->, <!--$
# my code 
if dbcol[docdb] == <spider.Collection 'pc'> --> <!--$
# end of my code
-->Test< &$self.text(dbcol[docdb].pretty_name); >Test<!--$
if not first: -->


I get the following error when I run the program. 

exceptions.SyntaxError: invalid syntax (line 86)
Line 86
if dbcol[docdb] == <spider.Collection 'pc'> wlines.append(u' ');

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Khalid J. Sheikh
Software Engineer
Silvaco International
http://www.silvaco.com
(408) 654-4352




From andrew-pythonlist at puzzling.org  Tue Jul  1 21:23:25 2003
From: andrew-pythonlist at puzzling.org (Andrew Bennetts)
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 11:23:25 +1000
Subject: PyQt and async I/O
In-Reply-To: <3f01fb8f@usenet01.boi.hp.com>
References: <3f01fb8f@usenet01.boi.hp.com>
Message-ID: <20030702012325.GA21059@frobozz>

On Tue, Jul 01, 2003 at 02:01:43PM -0700, djw wrote:
[...]
> 
> If you were to use asyncore for this async I/O, there is no yielding that I
> can see. Select() doesn't yield, and there is no time.sleep() in the
> asyncore.loop() code. Even if I were to add a time.sleep() to the loop,
> wouldn't the fact that select() blocks for some timeout value (default=30.0
> sec) imply that it would only yield after the select() timed out each time
> through the loop? That would seem to make for a pretty unresponsive UI. 
> 
> Hopefully somebody can clue me into understanding this.

Twisted has support for Qt -- see the 'twisted.internet.qtreactor' module.
That might give you some ideas; alternatively, you could just use Twisted
and stop worrying ;)

-Andrew.





From ben at dadsetan.com  Sun Jul  6 14:40:02 2003
From: ben at dadsetan.com (Behrang Dadsetan)
Date: Sun, 06 Jul 2003 20:40:02 +0200
Subject: absolute beginners question about API documentation
In-Reply-To: <be9pdo$2kjrj$1@ID-139865.news.dfncis.de>
References: <be9nn3$2k0j3$1@ID-47851.news.dfncis.de> <be9pdo$2kjrj$1@ID-139865.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <be9qh4$rkp$1@online.de>

Dave Kuhlman wrote:
> Markus Joschko wrote:
>>I'm want to know all methods I can use on dictionaries. Where can
>>I get an overview about these?
>>I looked on python.org but haven't found such an overview.
> If you are asking about the *Python* API, then look here:
>     http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/typesmapping.html
> If you are asking about the C API (which is less likely but
> possible), then look here:
> 
>     http://www.python.org/doc/current/api/dictObjects.html

Maybe one should add for better comprehension that dictionaries in 
python are builtin types.

So when you look for them in documentation, you should look into the 
basics and not for some Standard Library class as you would in the Java 
world.

Hope it helps,
Ben.




From kowald at molgen.mpg.de  Sun Jul 27 06:20:56 2003
From: kowald at molgen.mpg.de (Axel Kowald)
Date: 27 Jul 2003 03:20:56 -0700
Subject: Problems automating Sigmaplot via COM
Message-ID: <9b5e8d9.0307270220.119e8ded@posting.google.com>

Hi everybody,

I try to use python2.2 to automate Sigmaplot 8 via the COM interface.
I can fill data into a worksheet, but have problems to create a graph
:-(
When I use the CreateGraphWizard method I always get the error
message:

"com_error: (-2147352567, 'Exception occurred.', (65535, 'SigmaPlot
8.0', 'Invalid error bar source argument.', None, 0, 0), None)"

However, the type of graph I'm trying to create doesn't have error
bars!

Any idea what's going wrong?

Many thanks,

             Axel Kowald



=====================================================================
#!/usr/bin/env python
# 
# Simple example how to create a Sigmaplot diagram automatically.
# 7.2003  A.Kowald
#
from win32com.client import Dispatch

app = Dispatch("SigmaPlot.Application")
app.Width  = 800     # desired width & height of main window
app.Height = 600
app.Visible = True
# create notebook and automatically one section with worksheet
app.Notebooks.Add

# the NotebookItems of the "ActiveDocument" (Notebook) have now 3
items:
print app.ActiveDocument.NotebookItems.Count
# Item 0 (ItemType 7) = The notebook itself
# Item 1 (ItemType 3) = Section 1
# Item 2 (ItemType 1) = Data 1 in Section 1
# Lets name them, so we can refer to them by name.
app.ActiveDocument.NotebookItems(0).Name = "MyBook"
app.ActiveDocument.NotebookItems(1).Name = "MySection"
app.ActiveDocument.NotebookItems(2).Name = "MyData"
app.ActiveDocument.NotebookItems.Add(2)                 # Add graphic
page
app.ActiveDocument.NotebookItems(3).Name = "MyGraph"
dataTab = app.ActiveDocument.NotebookItems("MyData").DataTable

# 3 methods are available for data manipulation:
# Cell(x,y,value)    0 based
# PutData(1D/2Darray, left,top)
# 1D/2Darray = GetData(left,top,right,bottom)
dataTab.Cell(0,0,17)       # puts 17 in the top left corner
d = [[1,2,3],[2,4,6]]      # col1 = 1,2,3   col2 = 2,4,6
dataTab.PutData(d,0,0)
rect = dataTab.GetData(0,0,2,2)    # Get 3x3 tuple

# Adding column names (name,left,top,width,height=-1)
dataTab.NamedRanges.Add('X',0,0,1,-1)
dataTab.NamedRanges.Add('Y',1,0,1,-1)

# Now lets plot the data
graphPage = app.ActiveDocument.NotebookItems("MyGraph")
graphPage.CreateWizardGraph("Vertical Bar Chart","Simple Bar","XY
Pair",[0,1])

#app.Quit   # stop COM server



From psimmo60 at hotmail.com  Wed Jul  2 10:53:36 2003
From: psimmo60 at hotmail.com (Paul Simmonds)
Date: 2 Jul 2003 07:53:36 -0700
Subject: returning a structure using SWIG
References: <bdu6od$68j$1@news-reader4.wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <94974e1a.0307020653.6278d38e@posting.google.com>

"kj.kjn" <kj.kjn at wanadoo.fr> wrote in message news:<bdu6od$68j$1 at news-reader4.wanadoo.fr>...
> I would like to build a module for the fuction : myReturn find(char ** p1,
> int p2)
> 
> The problem is that I dont know how to specify the myReturn Type using swig.
> 
> myReturn is :
> 
> typedef struct{
>     char * name;
>     char * len[10];
>     time_t time;
> } myReturn
> 
> How to specify a such type in the interface file ?
> 
> Thank you

For the structure, all you need to do is paste this declaration into
the interface file. Job done. Create the structure within the
function, fill it up, return it and (most) everything will work.

To implement the function, though, will take a bit more effort. The
type of the len/p1 item may cause problems as arrays of chars I
believe have to be put together by inline functions within the
interface file, as SWIG doesn't put lists/tuples together
automatically.

However, without a few more details I can't know how easy/complex
that'll be. Could the array of string be passed as an big string with
an array of lengths? This may be a lot easier to parse, and is
understood by SWIG.

HTH,
Paul



From jjl at pobox.com  Sun Jul 13 08:36:59 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 13 Jul 2003 13:36:59 +0100
Subject: What's new with Gnosis [wrong thread ?]
References: <mailman.1057989259.18960.python-list@python.org> <87d6gf6cc6.fsf@pobox.com> <3F11630D.9090806@removeme.free.fr>
Message-ID: <87adbi8uxg.fsf@pobox.com>

Bruno Desthuilliers <bdesth.nospam at removeme.free.fr> writes:

> John J. Lee wrote:
> > "Raymond Hettinger" <vze4rx4y at verizon.net> writes:
> > [...]
> >
> >>ACT I ---------------------------------------
> >>
> 
> 
> (snip)
> 
> John,
> is it my newsreader going mad, or did you post in the wrong thread ?

I posted in the wrong thread.

Something about Gnus... haven't figured out why I occasionally do that yet.


John



From jjl at pobox.com  Fri Jul  4 10:56:43 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 04 Jul 2003 15:56:43 +0100
Subject: Python in Excel
References: <mailman.1057271286.23358.python-list@python.org> <1u3Na.12730$U23.8210@nwrdny01.gnilink.net>
Message-ID: <873chm9w7o.fsf@pobox.com>

"Tom Locke" <tom at liveDELETE-MElogix.com> writes:

> > >Can I write Excel macros/scripts using Python?
> > >
> > >I mean to actually put Python into an Excel document, not using
> > >Python to access data, for example, from some Excel document.
> 
> These days you can script office with any .NET language, and that includes
> Python:
[...]

Or use good old COM.  There's an example of controlling Excel (the
version from Office 2000) in the Python for Windows Extensions (aka
win32all) COM test code.  IIRC, it'll be somewhere like
C:\Python\win32com\tests\.


John



From usenet at soraia.com  Tue Jul  8 00:30:32 2003
From: usenet at soraia.com (Joe Francia)
Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 04:30:32 GMT
Subject: "Text Processing in Python" review on Slashdot
Message-ID: <INrOa.56818$0F6.7081@news.easynews.com>

In case any of you missed it, there is a very favorable review of "Text 
Processing in Python" over on Slashdot:

http://books.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=03/07/06/2253222&mode=nested&tid=126&tid=156




From martin at v.loewis.de  Fri Jul 18 20:52:38 2003
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-15?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 19 Jul 2003 02:52:38 +0200
Subject: A challenge to the ASCII proponents.
References: <mailman.1058278343.23104.python-list@python.org> <bf167a$pvt$1@panix2.panix.com> <ufzl7rdno.fsf@online.no> <3F142A58.80426AA4@hotmail.com> <2259b0e2.0307161620.4a9353f1@posting.google.com> <Xns93BB246FDDBCFJanC@213.118.75.80> <3F168011.3AEB3EFC@hotmail.com> <3F172442.2040907@v.loewis.de> <3F17C1D4.1A70703A@hotmail.com> <m3fzl3lvg6.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <3F1849A0.CB3053D8@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <m3wuefl4mh.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Alan Kennedy <alanmk at hotmail.com> writes:

> To everyone else: Why does this stuff get so complicated? Why does it
> take a multi-lingual + encoding-guru + protocol-guru + markup-guru +
> python-bot like Martin von L to get stuff like this done? Does it have
> to require somebot who writes better quality software (i.e. less
> defective) than the world's leading search engine, Google, who got it
> slightly wrong?

Indeed, it is the bugs in the software that make it so
hard. Fortunately, people like myself have worked hard over the last
10 years or so to get us where we are: writing software, testing
software, reporting bugs. Now much new software is unicode aware, and
may even support it to a large degree. Still, a lot needs to be done.
Most of this is in the minds of developers, to recognize "Unicode
good, byte string bad, Unicode good, byte string bad" :-)

> The idea of raising this came to me when that Russian individual
> posted a message a few days ago that got very garbled in the
> transmission, both subject and content. Again, it was only Martin who
> was able to figure out its content

I made a number of guesses, I admit. It had to be a language which
rarely uses ASCII, and whose encodings don't use bytes < 128. So most
likely it was Greek or Russian - this is expert knowledge one collects
over time. I tried three Russian encodings (again, which one to try
are expert knowledge, and I thought of Windows only last).

Regards,
Martin



From tzot at sil-tec.gr  Wed Jul 23 10:34:57 2003
From: tzot at sil-tec.gr (Christos TZOTZIOY Georgiou)
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 17:34:57 +0300
Subject: A challenge to the ASCII proponents.
References: <bf167a$pvt$1@panix2.panix.com> <ufzl7rdno.fsf@online.no> <3F142A58.80426AA4@hotmail.com> <2259b0e2.0307161620.4a9353f1@posting.google.com> <Xns93BB246FDDBCFJanC@213.118.75.80> <3F168011.3AEB3EFC@hotmail.com> <3F172442.2040907@v.loewis.de> <3F17C1D4.1A70703A@hotmail.com> <m3fzl3lvg6.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <3F1849A0.CB3053D8@hotmail.com> <amqqhv0gbdok6dnk6ib9342lejpc4ap5pd@4ax.com> <Xns93C160E9ED2F3duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <i07thv48ej6nr6sk83ai0g2b2g8shvmqnb@4ax.com>

On Wed, 23 Jul 2003 08:36:57 +0000 (UTC), rumours say that Duncan Booth
<duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk> might have written:

>Christos "TZOTZIOY" Georgiou <tzot at sil-tec.gr> wrote in 
>news:amqqhv0gbdok6dnk6ib9342lejpc4ap5pd at 4ax.com:
>
>> If I may say it sideways, try searching for google for the french word
>> "c?", as in "un c? s'il vous pla?.  Wanna bet my message will be
>> the only one to be found? :)
>
>Since when is 'c?' a French word? It doesn't appear in any French 
>dictionary I have tried. 

(A longer explanation was sent by email to Duncan)

That was my intention: to misspell as 'c?fe' the french word 'caf?', and
then search for it in google groups.  This is because the original greek
word --used as an example by Alan, Martin etc-- was misspelled as
'gi/gnwskw' instead of 'gignw/skw' (accent 'oxia' in the wrong letter,
resulting in an inexistant word), so it's normal that a google groups
search shows up Martin's UTF-8 post as the only one containing the word.

I did begin my post as "If I may say it sideways..." :)
-- 
TZOTZIOY, I speak England very best,
Microsoft Security Alert: the Matrix began as open source.



From myles at geocities.com  Wed Jul 30 20:50:12 2003
From: myles at geocities.com (Myles)
Date: 30 Jul 2003 17:50:12 -0700
Subject: PIL & TIFF transparency?
References: <bPFXEJAEJ7J$EwfY@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <a4638b9b.0307301650.65e6f08b@posting.google.com>

Robin Becker <robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message news:<bPFXEJAEJ7J$EwfY at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>...
> Has anyone done transparency with PIL & TIFF? I'm using PIL to generate
> a preview TIFF for embedding into an eps file and am being asked for the
> TIFF to support transparency.

Simple example that makes pure white areas of an RGB image transparent
(there's probably a better way to create the mask, and a better way to 
add the mask to the image, but this gives you a starting point):

import Image, ImageChops
im = Image.open('/junk/pickme.png')
# create mask (will become alpha band i.e. transparency)
mask = im.point(lambda i : i == 255 and 255)   # create RGB mask
mask = mask.convert('L')                       # mask to grayscale
mask = mask.point(lambda i : i == 255 and 255) # mask to B&W grayscale
mask = ImageChops.invert(mask)
# merge mask with image
R, G, B = im.split()
nuimg = Image.merge('RGBA', (R, G, B, mask))
nuimg.save('/junk/out.tif', 'tiff')

Regards, Myles.



From danb_83 at yahoo.com  Wed Jul 30 20:08:16 2003
From: danb_83 at yahoo.com (Dan Bishop)
Date: 30 Jul 2003 17:08:16 -0700
Subject: How to get Windows physical RAM using python?
References: <bg90lh$bkp$1@news3.bu.edu> <bg92o2$onr$1@news3.bu.edu>
Message-ID: <ad052e5c.0307301608.10372099@posting.google.com>

Mark <nbdy9 at hotmail.com.nospam> wrote in message news:<bg92o2$onr$1 at news3.bu.edu>...
> OK, How to check the amount of Windows physical RAM using python?

The easiest way is to parse the output from $WINDIR/system32/mem.exe .

    memTotals = os.popen('mem | find "total"').readlines()
    conventionalMemory = int(memTotals[0].split()[0])
    extendedMemory = int(memTotals[1].split()[0])



From max at alcyone.com  Sat Jul 12 19:09:16 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 16:09:16 -0700
Subject: anything like C++ references?
References: <13t0hvsb7idh0g6ac3upe5k0qd6flc17ah@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3F10951B.5C18E6F6@alcyone.com>

Tom Plunket wrote:

> Is there any way to do references like this in Python?  It'd be
> like this, though clearly this doesn't change the thing I want it
> to change:

Hi, Tom.

There's no builtin support for this in Python, but you can do it
yourself easily enough.  Pass in a mutable container, and then twiddle
the object you want inside it.

>>> def change(val):
...  val[0] += 1
... 
>>> v = [0]
>>> change(v)
>>> v
[1]

I'm a strong believer in writing self-documenting code, so in a case
like this I write a (trivial) class that makes my intent crystal clear:

>>> class Container:
...  def __init__(self, value=None): self.value = value
...  def get(self): return self.value
... 
>>> class Container:
...  def __init__(self, value=None): self.value = value
...  def get(self): return self.value
...  def set(self, value): self.value = value
... 
>>> def change(container): 
...  container.set(container.get() + 1)
... 
>>> 
>>> c = Container(0)
>>> change(c)
>>> c.get()
1

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ Winners are men who have dedicated their whole lives to winning.
\__/  Woody Hayes



From giva at users.sourceforge.net  Wed Jul 30 12:20:48 2003
From: giva at users.sourceforge.net (Gisle Vanem)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 18:20:48 +0200
Subject: Misuse of <tab>
Message-ID: <3f27f0e3$1@news.broadpark.no>

I'm a .py newbie and fascinated by the simplicity of formatting.
No need for {} as in Perl etc. But the misuse of <tab> that many
.py writers do makes it hard to understand how a script operates.

E.g.

def main():
   terminate = 0
   def foo():
       line = sys.stdin.readline()
<tab>  try:
        bar()
    except:
        terminate = 1

main()

Now, with an editor with different tab-settings it's difficult to see where
the try statement belongs. In 'def main()' or in 'def foo()' ?
I'm confused, please enlighten me.

--gv





From R.Brodie at rl.ac.uk  Wed Jul  2 09:58:48 2003
From: R.Brodie at rl.ac.uk (Richard Brodie)
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 14:58:48 +0100
Subject: When is unit-testing bad? [was: Re: does lack of type...]
References: <3EEE1210.3004AB45@engcorp.com> <878ys06tcv.fsf_-_@pobox.com> <vf11j7l3f0ku52@news.supernews.com> <87of0pno5s.fsf@titan.staselog.com> <vg40uajdqo3ac4@corp.supernews.com> <bdunoh$1pms$1@biggoron.nerim.net>
Message-ID: <bduoeq$lhs@newton.cc.rl.ac.uk>

"Aur?lien G?ron" <ageron at HOHOHOHOvideotron.ca> wrote in message
news:bdunoh$1pms$1 at biggoron.nerim.net...

> The same goes for GUIs.  I'd be interested to know about projects where
> they automate unit tests for GUIs, but I suspect it would be just as
> cumbersome.

I don't think one would necessary need to automate the GUI itself.
A lot of applications seem to have poor separation of the GUI, something
that the developers of GUI frameworks seem to encourage (not necessarily
as part of their evil plan). If the end result of designing a GUI application for
testing was that it was both easy to script and to port to another toolkit, as a
side effect, than I can see the possible benefit.





From guettler at thomas-guettler.de  Wed Jul 16 10:05:37 2003
From: guettler at thomas-guettler.de (Thomas =?ISO-8859-15?Q?G=FCttler?=)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 16:05:37 +0200
Subject: Choosing the right framework
References: <mailman.1058360129.5550.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bf3m3m$afoig$1@ID-63505.news.uni-berlin.de>

Carsten Gehling wrote:

> Oh how often this subject may come up...
> 
> The thing is, I've come to the decision of abandoning PHP as much as
> possible (old projects still remain...), and use Python for all purposes.
> Reason: One language to fit it all (instead of having one language for
> webprogramming, one for batches, etc...)

Where do you want to store your data? [relational database, text files,
ZODB, Berkley DB, pickles, ...]

If you don't need ZODB (object database), I would not use Zope. 

I would use quixote.

 thomas



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Thu Jul 31 20:46:16 2003
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 20:46:16 -0400
Subject: How do I get a reference to a KEY value of a dictionary?
References: <645db655.0307311636.71923378@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <Qf-cnYqDQejEJbSiXTWJjw@comcast.com>

"Andy C" <andychup at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:645db655.0307311636.71923378 at posting.google.com...
> I am new to python, so please bear with me if I am making some
> conceptual error.
>
> Basically I want to create a graph with an adjacency list
> representation, but I don't want any of the adjacency lists to have
> duplicate strings when it is avoidable.  I have a function
createEdge
> that adds an edge to the graph.  The arguments will be distinct
since
> they are read from text files.  But basically I want to use the
> dictionary as a string pool, and if the argument string equals
> something in the pool already, don't use the argument string, just a
> use a reference to something in the string pool already.

Thinking in terms of 'references' can both help and hinder.  (There
have been some long recent discussion.)

Are you familiar with this?

>>> help('intern')

Help on built-in function intern:

intern(...)
    intern(string) -> string

    ``Intern'' the given string.  This enters the string in the
(global)
    table of interned strings whose purpose is to speed up dictionary
lookups.
    Return the string itself or the previously interned string object
with the
    same value.

TJR





From trentm at ActiveState.com  Wed Jul 23 15:26:40 2003
From: trentm at ActiveState.com (Trent Mick)
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 12:26:40 -0700
Subject: Python and VS.Net
In-Reply-To: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCOEEKEOAB.tim_one@email.msn.com>; from tim_one@email.msn.com on Wed, Jul 23, 2003 at 12:24:52AM -0400
References: <bfkvn6$msi$1@eeyore.INS.cwru.edu> <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCOEEKEOAB.tim_one@email.msn.com>
Message-ID: <20030723122640.A356@ActiveState.com>

[Tim Peters wrote]
> Note that all current Windows installers from PythonLabs install code
> compiled with VC6...

As do all ActivePython Windows packages.


Trent

-- 
Trent Mick
TrentM at ActiveState.com




From sschlesi at bigfoot.com  Mon Jul 21 12:27:20 2003
From: sschlesi at bigfoot.com (Scott Schlesier)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 16:27:20 GMT
Subject: Dr. Dobb's Python-URL! - weekly Python news and links (Jul 21)
References: <vhne9r38jpsq8a@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <ar4ohvob0c0a0lltlq739ccm5d0du58fmd@4ax.com>

On Mon, 21 Jul 2003 09:58:19 -0000, Irmen de Jong
<python-url at phaseit.net> wrote:

Am I experiencing a "technical difficulty", or are all of the links
below broken?

Scott S.

>Discussion
>----------
>     Aahz writes a rebuttal to Artima.com, because a recent interview with
>     Bruce Eckel on that site might give the wrong impression regarding
>     Python's type system.
>         <http://www.artima.com/weblogs/viewpost.jsp?thread=3D7590>

>
>     Raymond Hettinger intrigues with the second episode of a series of
>     mysterious Python puzzles.
>         <http://groups.google.com/groups?threadm=3DVorQa.15236$Kw1.587 at n=
>wrdny02.gnilink.net>
>
>     Tom Plunket starts a huge thread about the way Python treats
>     objects, names, variables, assignment, references and what not.
>     Various people have different opinions about what would be the best
>     way to do things, but in the end, the QOTW of Tim Roberts (above)
>     kind of says it all.
>         <http://groups.google.com/groups?threadm=3D13t0hvsb7idh0g6ac3upe5k0qd6flc17ah at 4ax.com>
>
>     Michele Simionato likes to have an endswith method that accepts a
>     list of strings, instead of a single string argument. But things are
>     not that easy.
>         <http://groups.google.com/groups?threadm=3D2259b0e2.0307200604.44d343f4 at posting.google.com>
>
>     Alan Kennedy shows what you might do if you need to build a list of
>     database rows (from a query), without allocating the list beforehand
>     because you don't know the size. He uses an iterator to do the trick.
>         <http://groups.google.com/groups?threadm=3D3F16B745.9CF3EF54 at hotmail.com>
>
>     Andrew Kuchling has started a mailing list for discussion about
>     Python Web frameworks.

>     This is partly because perhaps Python needs a single 'standard' way
>     to create web applications, as Andy Robinson points out.
>         <http://groups.google.com/groups?threadm=3Dd5mm9v8em9j41kus2tvj2raipd7dagv18k%404ax.com>
>




From h.b.furuseth at usit.uio.no  Sat Jul  5 14:23:13 2003
From: h.b.furuseth at usit.uio.no (Hallvard B Furuseth (nospam nospam))
Date: 05 Jul 2003 20:23:13 +0200
Subject: How to get CGI request-URL
References: <HBF.20030704ty6d@bombur.uio.no> <HBF.20030705h0cj@bombur.uio.no> <3f070d44$0$49099$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <HBF.20030705g23m@bombur.uio.no>

Irmen de Jong wrote:
> Glad to be of assistance, but you didn't tell us what the
> actual solution to your problem was... It is always a good idea
> to do so because others that have the same problem, and
> reading the thread, can immediately benefit :-)

Good point.  I'll come back when I'm sure my solution actually works...
I need to get someone to intall the program first.

-- 
Hallvard



From tdelaney at avaya.com  Wed Jul 16 20:42:46 2003
From: tdelaney at avaya.com (Delaney, Timothy C (Timothy))
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 10:42:46 +1000
Subject: list() coercion
Message-ID: <338366A6D2E2CA4C9DAEAE652E12A1DE8D3D5C@au3010avexu1.global.avaya.com>

> From: Ian Bicking [mailto:ianb at colorstudy.com]
> 
> Is there a way I can keep this from happening?  Maybe something list()
> tries first that I can make fail.  (I notice list() catches any
> exceptions in __len__ and then will just skip that step)

Simplest thing is probably:

ll = MyListLikeObject()
li = iter(ll)
l = list(li)

i.e. explicitly create an iterator (which doesn't have a __len__) and create the list from that.

OTOH, if the problem is that creating the iterator is causing the problem (calling __len__), you may need to create a proxy object that doesn't have a __len__ and call list() on that.

Tim Delaney




From donn at u.washington.edu  Wed Jul 16 15:12:19 2003
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 12:12:19 -0700
Subject: anything like C++ references?
References: <plk3hv0s1m2egf4s34jo6vjedk0q8r2mu9@4ax.com> <hflQa.48826$wk6.12216@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net> <rp94hvc8fg6h91oe7ctqq9jn9ku3nlud1k@4ax.com> <f0f51c80.0307150945.3f19e48b@posting.google.com> <qlq8hv8e7a5177o250c2fhvg9hv2lhfa15@4ax.com> <20030715200433927-0600@news.xmission.com> <1058328099.572993@yasure> <20030716081156943-0600@news.xmission.com> <donn-6E63A0.10284316072003@nntp1.u.washington.edu> <20030716123907246-0600@news.xmission.com>
Message-ID: <donn-F604B9.12121916072003@nntp3.u.washington.edu>

In article <20030716123907246-0600 at news.xmission.com>,
 Adam Ruth <owski at hotmail.com> wrote:
> In <donn-6E63A0.10284316072003 at nntp1.u.washington.edu> Donn Cave  wrote:
> > In article <20030716081156943-0600 at news.xmission.com>,
> >  Adam Ruth <owski at hotmail.com> wrote:
> > 
> >> In <1058328099.572993 at yasure> Donn Cave wrote:
> >> > Quoth Adam Ruth <owski at hotmail.com>:
> >> > ....
> >> >| In Python, there is no situation where "you really can't avoid 
> >> >| pointers".  
> >> > 
> >> > That's trivially true, no such situation can exist because that
> >> > Python can't be coded.  I'll repeat an example that I proposed
> >> > a couple days ago, though:  user implemented sequences could be
> >> > implemented with a single simple indexing function, returning
> >> > a pointer/target/whatever;  Python could assign directly to that,
> >> > making "seq[i] = x" the same kind of operation as and automatically
> >> > symmetrical with "x = seq[i]".
 
...
> You are correct, 'really need' is not much of an argument.  The 
> statement I disagreed with was that it was bad to simulate pointers in 
> those situations where "you really can't avoid pointers".  I was 
> expressing that really aren't any such situations, and that it's even 
> worse try to simulate pointers when it's not really necessary.

OK, there really aren't any situations where you can't avoid
pointers ... so you're ready with a solution to the problem
I posed above?

Class scope containers that hold exactly one item, to pick a
commonly seen usage that I suppose is a simulated pointer -
that's really not necessary, and it's "even worse" (than what?)

   Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu



From iambrenNOSPAM at sympatico.ca  Fri Jul 25 17:37:44 2003
From: iambrenNOSPAM at sympatico.ca (Bren)
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 17:37:44 -0400
Subject: Problem build Boost.Python
Message-ID: <ff83iv8i0c78bq1npa7kqfr0ssh7tqbpvt@4ax.com>

Hi,

Pardon my stupid, but I'm having a problem building Boost.Python as
per the instructions at
http://www.boost.org/libs/python/doc/building.html

I got boost-build-2.0-m6.zip from sourceforge and build bjam.exe.

I've tried several ways:

bjam -a
bjam -sTOOLS="msvc"
bjam -sTOOLS=msvc

I tried with and without the using msvc ; in user-config.jam.

In every case I get:

C:/Project/boost/tools\boostbook.jam:86: in boostbook.init
*** argument error
* rule path.make ( native )
* called with: (  )
* missing argument native
C:/Project/boost/new\path.jam:42:see definition of rule 'path.make'
being called

C:/Project/boost/new\toolset.jam:22: in using
C:\Project\boost\new\../new\user-config.jam:58: in modules.load
C:/Project/boost\build-system.jam:55: in load
C:\Project\boost\new\..\kernel\modules.jam:296: in import
C:\Project\boost\new\..\kernel\bootstrap.jam:122: in boost-build
C:\Project\boost\new\boost-build.jam:2: in module scope


Can anyone help?




-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
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From intentionally at blank.co.uk  Wed Jul 16 16:33:47 2003
From: intentionally at blank.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 21:33:47 +0100
Subject: anything like C++ references?
References: <mailman.1058362045.31784.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <gtcbhvc2p13ko3i6focfki9fprjkcihbp3@4ax.com>

On Wed, 16 Jul 2003 06:26:01 -0700, Michael Chermside
<mcherm at mcherm.com> wrote:

>I submit that you may find this be a more useful way to view things --
>not that Python's implementation of assignment fails to match your
>expectation, but that Python provides no true access to "values", only
>to the more complex construct "objects" (although a strong equivalence
>exists  for immutable types).
>
>Do you find this alternate explanation useful?

I first wrote more or less this same thing a few days ago, as a
description of what is wrong.

It's a long thread though, and I seem to have written most of it.

Just to explain, in maths, variables bind to values. There are no
objects in maths, even though maths does have abstract data types,
algorithms and even assignments. IMO a 'very high level' programming
language should act as if variables are bound to values by default. It
should only behave differently if you explicitly say otherwise.

I suspect all the possible arguments against have already been made.




From tjreedy at udel.edu  Thu Jul 24 14:26:20 2003
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 14:26:20 -0400
Subject: Mystery Theater New Style Classes
References: <mailman.1059062857.29503.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <XJecnYZhwsZQub2iXTWJiQ@comcast.com>

"Bob Gailer" <bgailer at alum.rpi.edu> wrote in message
news:mailman.1059062857.29503.python-list at python.org...
> Predict the output:
>
> class A(int):
>      classval = 99
>      def __init__(self, val = 0):
>          if val:
>              self = val
>          else:
>              self = A.classval

I am not sure what the point is.  However,

1.  Rebinding the local variable 'self' (or any other local variable)
only affects further code within the function, which there is not any.
So the above conditional is equivalent to 'pass'.

2.  Because ints are immutable, the value of a new int is set within
int.__new__, which is not overwritten.  Thus, the above __init__ is
irrelevant.  In particular, the value of an A object has nothing to do
with the defaulted parameter 'val=0'.

> a=A(3)

3. This is equivalent to a=int(3).  No surprises.

> b=A()

4. This is equivalent to b = int().  I thought this might raise an
exception.  But after seeing the result (0). I remember Guido's
decision (and a recent PyDev discussion thereof) that callable builtin
types should, if possible, return a null value when getting a null
input.  Hence

>>> int(), long(), float(), tuple(), list(), dict()
(0, 0L, 0.0, (), [], {})

> print a,b
3,0

5. Result is same if 'val=0' is changed to 'val=9' or anything else.

> [from OP's self followup] The question this leads to is: how does
one access the value of such a class within a class method?

Since there is no class method presented, this make not much sense.
Bob: were you aware of 4.) above when you posted this?

Terry J. Reedy





From j.vanrooij_at_e-quest.nl  Fri Jul  4 09:39:20 2003
From: j.vanrooij_at_e-quest.nl (Joost van Rooij)
Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 15:39:20 +0200
Subject: Delete item from wxListCtrl
Message-ID: <3f05842f$0$49105$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

Hi,

I am having problems deleting one item from a list in a wxListCtrl widget.
My thought was to select it as presented below:

def onSelect(self, event):
    self.item = event.GetItem()
    self.list.DeleteItem(self.item)

This won't work, it appaers GetItem() is returning an object while
DeleteItem() requires a long as its input. How do I pass the item to the
DeleteItem function?

Regards,
Joost





From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Jul 24 19:20:29 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 19:20:29 -0400
Subject: SSH and Windows
References: <mailman.1059075456.6282.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3F2069BD.1FE2EC2@engcorp.com>

Isaac Raway wrote:
> 
> Hello. I'm writing a Python program that connects to servers through
> telnetlib to execute a few commands. I've discovered that some of the
> servers that I have to connect to with this program run only SSH, so I
> need to add support for SSH to the program. I'm looking for a library
> that behaves similarly to telnetlib for SSH connections. Does anyone
> know of one? I was going to try using pexpect to control the Windows
> telnet command, but pexpect only works on Unix.

If it's just to execute a few commands, consider downloading PLink
(from the PuTTY site) and use it via os.system().  It works well.

-Peter



From ta-meyer at ihug.co.nz  Fri Jul 18 00:49:58 2003
From: ta-meyer at ihug.co.nz (Tony Meyer)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 16:49:58 +1200
Subject: Regular expression help
In-Reply-To: <1ED4ECF91CDED24C8D012BCF2B034F13026F83EB@its-xchg4.massey.ac.nz>
Message-ID: <1ED4ECF91CDED24C8D012BCF2B034F130212AB4D@its-xchg4.massey.ac.nz>

> > How about re.findall?
> >     >>> re.findall('BEGIN(.*?)END', 'BEGIN foo END   BEGIN 
> bar END') 
> >     [' foo ', ' bar ']
> 
> Actually this fails with the multi-line type of file I was 
> asking about.
> 
>  >>> re.findall('BEGIN(.*?)END', 'BEGIN foo\nmumble END   
> BEGIN bar END')
> [' bar ']

You need the re.DOTALL flag.  I don't think you can pass this to the findall
function, but you can if you compile the re, eg:

>>> import re
>>> r = re.compile('BEGIN(.*?)END', re.DOTALL)
>>> r.findall('BEGIN foo\nmumble END   BEGIN bar END')
[' foo\nmumble ', ' bar ']

=Tony Meyer





From irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl  Wed Jul  2 13:48:50 2003
From: irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 19:48:50 +0200
Subject: dcom client from non-windows python
In-Reply-To: <uptkt9vlx.fsf@scientia.com>
References: <ur85a8we8.fsf@scientia.com> <B9wMa.9909$BM.3068463@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com> <uptkt9vlx.fsf@scientia.com>
Message-ID: <3f031b00$0$49102$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

Paul Rudin wrote:
>>>>>>"drs" == drs  <drs at ecp.cc> writes:
> 
> 
> 
>     > My guess is you would be more successful using pyro for the
>     > distributed stuff. 
> 
> Ya, but that doesn't allow you to talk to, for example, excel running
> on a windows box directly. 

True, but it's probably piece of cake to use Mark Hammond's win32all
extensions for Python on the windows box, to actually do the call,
and use Pyro for the platform-neutral communication.

This won't work if you're not able to run Python on the target
machines, of course.

> I'm not sure how much reimplementing windows is needed? There are
> other non-python tools that achieve this kind of thing - see e.g.
> <http://www.linar.com/> - in theory you just need to know how to drive
> the dcom network protocol.

Linar's J-Integra dates from august 2001, according to their page.
I wouldn't touch it with a 10 foot pole, also given Microsoft's way
of changing things without documenting them.
Who knows what the exact specs are of the "dcom network protocol"?
(If there even is such a thing. And aren't we all going to .NET ?)

IMHO you shouldn't spend a second on trying to re-implement a closed
protocol such as DCOM. I think there are much better alternatives
out there, that are already available, open, documented, supported
and actively developed.

Just my ?0.02

--Irmen de Jong




From cybersamurai at mac.com  Sun Jul 13 19:01:43 2003
From: cybersamurai at mac.com (cybersamurai at mac.com)
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 20:01:43 -0300
Subject: MacPython and more modules
Message-ID: <F88A74DC-B585-11D7-A515-000393B10A78@mac.com>

I install MacPython 2.3 on a Jaguar 2.6 on my house but I don't know 
how I install others modules. When I use python setup install the 
module is installed on usr/lib/... and not inside frameworks. How I can 
solve this??

Thanks about help me.





From thedustbustr at aol.com  Thu Jul 24 19:09:41 2003
From: thedustbustr at aol.com (TheDustbustr)
Date: 24 Jul 2003 23:09:41 GMT
Subject: generator function within a generator function doesn't execute?
Message-ID: <20030724190941.18070.00000520@mb-m17.aol.com>

<code>
from __future__ import generators
from time import time
threads=[]

def sleep(n):
    print "In Sleep"
    t=time()
    while (t+n>time()): 
        yield None

def cutscene():
    yield None #start on second pass

    print "\nEvil Death Knight: I will kill you now!"

    sleep(1.5)
    #t=time()
    #while (t+1.5>time()): yield None

    print "\nOur Hero: I shall fight you to the death.  Bring it on!"

    sleep(2.5)
    #t=time()
    #while (t+2.5>time()): yield None

    print "\nEnd of cutscene."

def ticker():
    yield None #wait till second time through
    print "."
    t=time()
    while 1:
        while (t+1>time()): yield None
        t=time()
        print "."

def scheduler():
    global threads
    try:
        while 1:
            for thread in threads: thread.next()
    except StopIteration:
        pass
        
if __name__=="__main__":
    threads.append(ticker())
    threads.append(cutscene())
    scheduler()
</code>

ticker() prints out a period every second.  cutscene() is a scripted game
sequence.  sleep(n) should cause a delay of n seconds (but doesn't block
execution of the other microthreads (correct term?)).  ticker() and cutscene()
should be running simultaneously (in effect, at least).

However, when run, the sleep function doesn't execute.  It doesn't even print
"In Sleep".  It never gets called, even though I say sleep(1.5) in cutscene(). 
Run it for yourself if you don't believe me.

Through my testing, any generator function will not execute if called from
another generator function. Regular functions work fine.

If I comment the sleep statements and uncomment the while loops, it runs as
expected.  Why doesn't the sleep() function execute?

Thanks in advance.
Dustin



From timr at probo.com  Wed Jul 16 23:42:56 2003
From: timr at probo.com (Tim Roberts)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 20:42:56 -0700
Subject: hex to signed integer
References: <vhbq0kr6ftvr0e@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <9j6chvoep7k34fbqutvp364lghnmmohrsj@4ax.com>

Tom Goulet <tomg at em.ca> wrote:

>Hello,
>
>My question basically is:  What is the opposite of the following?
>| "%08X" % -1
>
>I want to convert a string of hexadecimal characters to the signed
>integer they would have been before the <print> statement converted
>them.  How do I do this in such a way that is compatible with Python
>versions 1.5.2 through 2.4, and not machine-dependent?
>
>This is my current best:
>| struct.unpack("!l", \
>| 	chr(string.atoi(hexbit[0:2], 16)) + \
>| 	chr(string.atoi(hexbit[2:4], 16)) + \
>| 	chr(string.atoi(hexbit[4:6], 16)) + \
>| 	chr(string.atoi(hexbit[6:8], 16)))

(Unrelated note: the blackslashes are unnecessary in this example, since it
is inside a set of parens.)

How slimy is this?

  try:
    temp = int(hexbit,16)
  except:
    temp = int(long(hexbit,16)-2**32)

Equivalently:
  if hexbit[0] < '8':
    temp = int(hexbit,16)
  else:
    temp = int(long(hexbit,16)-2**32)
-- 
- Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
  Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.



From llafba at gmx.net  Wed Jul  2 10:32:16 2003
From: llafba at gmx.net (Tom)
Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 16:32:16 +0200
Subject: undo tab
References: <3F02E7D5.4060401@gmx.net> <bduq2n$114jav$1@ID-67890.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <3F02ECF0.105@gmx.net>

Hi,

it doesn't work with any editor that I tried. The one I use on a regular 
basis is the standard python IDLE. Sometimes I also use the editor of 
pythonwin and Boa-Constructor.

Maybe you can just give me a general hint how you do it and which editor 
you use. That would probably also help.

Thank you, Tom.

Ulrich Petri wrote:

>"Tom" <llafba at gmx.net> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
>news:3F02E7D5.4060401 at gmx.net...
>  
>
>>Hi,
>>
>>as we all know we need tabs if we use for, if ... commands. Sometimes I
>>find an easier way to do something and I can get rid of one or more for,
>>if ... loops. Unfortunately I couldn't find a convenient way to get rid
>>of the now unnecessary tabs. I am looking for something as convenient as
>>inserting tabs (mark everything and push the tab key). I tried shift+tab
>>and all other possible variations with alt/shift/ctrl. :-)
>>
>>Thanks for your help.
>>Tom
>>
>>    
>>
>
>Would be helpful if you give us a clue what editor you are using....
>
>Ciao Ulrich
>
>
>  
>




From tom at liveDELETE-MElogix.com  Thu Jul  3 20:02:05 2003
From: tom at liveDELETE-MElogix.com (Tom Locke)
Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 00:02:05 GMT
Subject: Python in Excel
References: <mailman.1057271286.23358.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1u3Na.12730$U23.8210@nwrdny01.gnilink.net>

> >Can I write Excel macros/scripts using Python?
> >
> >I mean to actually put Python into an Excel document, not using
> >Python to access data, for example, from some Excel document.

These days you can script office with any .NET language, and that includes
Python:

http://www.activestate.com/Products/Visual_Python/

At one point I know this implementation was horribyl slow - I'm not sure
where they're at now.

If you want to actually embed the script inside the spreadsheet, I believe
that is only possible in Office 2003 - currently in beta. Right now you can
write a standalone program that can launch and then control Excel. You can
do much more than just access the data - you can do anything that you can do
with VB. The only thing missing is embedding the .NET code in the document.

Tom.





From heikowu at ceosg.de  Tue Jul 15 20:53:15 2003
From: heikowu at ceosg.de (Heiko Wundram)
Date: 16 Jul 2003 02:53:15 +0200
Subject: ANN: Flatten 0.1
Message-ID: <1058316795.664.75.camel@d168.stw.stud.uni-saarland.de>

Flatten is a standalone serialization module suitable for converting a
Python object to a byte-string and back, and especially well suited for
network data transferral.

Flatten was first created out of the need for a secure way to pickle
class-instances for network transmission, and has in the mean time
evolved to become quite something more complex than only this.

Flatten offers:
- Serialization of base Python types (it better should... ;))
- Serialization of circular data structures (almost perfectly, see the
  documentation for more info why there are slight quirks)
- Serialization of predefined user classes conforming to a special
  serialization protocol and having been registered with Flatten.
- Much much more, look at the source, Luke! ;)

Detailing the serialization protocol here would be far too much, but as
a little teaser, let me state that Flatten handles class instantiation
differently than most other serializers by not only giving the topmost
class a chance to serialize/unserialize and restore data, but also all
base classes of this class. This allows objects which are received from
network to be modified on the fly at each level during unserializing
(think of pickle's __getinitargs__, but called on each class in the
MRO-tree, and not having __init__ called, but another function). It also
does automatic type/data-checking on unserializing stored data.

There are several other tidbits I've always wanted a serializer to have
but never found one which did, so just look at the documentation to see
all that Flatten can do.

Flatten is stable in its current version, and has seen about three
months of active usage as a network protocol helper library, so there
shouldn't be any more bugs in it (okay, I think I've not had an attack
on it yet, but anyway I screened the code for bugs more than once).

Author:   Heiko Wundram <heiko at asta.uni-saarland.de>
Name:     Flatten
Version:  0.1
URL:      http://www.asta.uni-saarland.de/~heiko/flatten
Requires: Python 2.3 (developed on Python 2.3b2+, but with some
           modifications should also run on earlier versions)

On a personal note: I was previously hosting most of my projects on my
own personal server, but as the university is restricting private use of
its Internet connection more and more (even cutting off my internet
connection for more than three weeks), I had to move all of them tho
this host. This means that you will also find yawPyCrypto, my PyCrypto
wrapper library, there.

Heiko Wundram.





From postmaster at bthub01.bt.com  Sat Jul  5 10:56:13 2003
From: postmaster at bthub01.bt.com (postmaster at bthub01.bt.com)
Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2003 15:56:13 +0100 
Subject: Undeliverable: Re: Movie
Message-ID: <5E982A0C1799274AAD22EE21DE6373DD0392D593@cbibipnt08.hc.bt.com>

Your message

  To:      N.Winton at axion.bt.co.uk
  Subject: Re: Movie
  Sent:    Sat, 5 Jul 2003 15:59:01 +0100

did not reach the following recipient(s):

N.Winton at axion.bt.co.uk on Sat, 5 Jul 2003 15:56:09 +0100
    The recipient name is not recognized
	The MTS-ID of the original message is:
c=gb;a=bt;p=bt;l=CBIBIPNT0803070514563GAHP1WW
    MSEXCH:IMS:EXCHANGE:BTHUB01:CBIBIPNT08 3550 (000B09B6) 550 5.1.1
<N.Winton at axion.bt.co.uk>... User unknown


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From ianb at colorstudy.com  Tue Jul  8 13:50:23 2003
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: 08 Jul 2003 12:50:23 -0500
Subject: path module
In-Reply-To: <20030708113219.H6906@prim.han.de>
References: <1057651068.5348.386.camel@lothlorien>
	 <20030708113219.H6906@prim.han.de>
Message-ID: <1057686623.3738.62.camel@lothlorien>

On Tue, 2003-07-08 at 04:32, holger krekel wrote:
> I agree that something like Jason Orendorff's path module should go into
> the standard library.  I've coded a similar module and i think that
> a discussion about certain design decisions would probably improve our
> approaches. 
> 
> For example Jason lets the "path" object inherit from "str" (or unicode)
> but i think it's better to provide a "__str__" method so that you can say
> 
>     str(pathinstance).endswith('.py')
> 
> and *not* base the path object on str/unicode. 
> 
>     unicode(pathinstance)
> 
> would just fail if your platform doesn't support this.  First, i tried
> the inheritance approach, btw, but it is ambigous (e.g. for the
> join-method (str.join and os.path.join).  

I'm starting to think the same thing.  Not so much because of join, but
because it doesn't actually offer many advantages.  Many methods that
look for a filename will be using "type(arg) is type('')", so you'd have
to pass a real string object in anyway -- and people who say "but you
should use isinstance(arg, str)" are obviously forgetting that you
couldn't do this not very long ago, and lots of code uses type
comparison at this point.

> Also, my module provides most of the os.path.* methods as "filters" so
> you can say
> 
>     dirs = filter(isdir, list_obj_pathobjects)
>     fnames = filter(AND(nolink, isfile), list_obj_pathobjects)
> 
> in addition to
> 
>     pathobject.isfile()
>     etc.

That's not necessary with list comprehension, since you can just do:

[p for p in list_obj_pathobjects if p.isdir()]

> Recently, i also did some experimentation with "virtual-fs" features so 
> that you can transparently access http/ftp/svn files/directories.  I even 
> got that to work with "<tab>-completion" but that was quite a hack :-)
> 
> I am pretty sure that virtual-fs-like-extensibility would be a big 
> "selling" point and would motivate the use of such a module and
> finally the inclusion into the stdlib. Of course, the local-fs should
> be the convenient case but it shouldn't be hard to use the same methods 
> for accessing remote "repositories". 

Yes, virtual filesystems are certainly an important idea here.  Almost
makes me wonder if path() should also recognize URLs by default...
probably not, as that isn't always desired, and a URL is going to create
a significantly different object than a mere filesystem path, even
though its interface will be very similar.

  Ian






From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Wed Jul  2 08:12:52 2003
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 07:12:52 -0500
Subject: My Big Dict.
In-Reply-To: <emwMa.83456$R73.10319@sccrnsc04> ("Russell Reagan"'s message
 of "Wed, 02 Jul 2003 08:04:26 GMT")
References: <mailman.1057119003.11991.python-list@python.org>
	<20030702073735.40293ba2.christophe.delord@free.fr>
	<TXvMa.9902$BM.3065756@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com>
	<emwMa.83456$R73.10319@sccrnsc04>
Message-ID: <m2d6gtm8jf.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

>>>>> "Russell" == Russell Reagan <rreagan at attbi.com> writes:

    drs> f = open('somefile.txt')
    drs> d = {}
    drs> l = f.readlines()
    drs> for i in l:
    drs>     a,b = i.split('!')
    drs>     d[a] = b.strip()


I would make one minor modification of this.  If the file were *really
long*, you could run into troubles trying to hold it in memory.  I
find the following a little cleaner (with python 2.2), and doesn't
require putting the whole file in memory.  A file instance is an
iterator (http://www.python.org/doc/2.2.1/whatsnew/node4.html) which
will call readline as needed:

     d = {}
     for line in file('sometext.dat'):
         key,val = line.split('!')
         d[key] = val.strip()

Or if you are not worried about putting it in memory, you can use list
comprehensions for speed

  d = dict([ line.split('!') for line in file('somefile.text')])

    Russell> I have just started learning Python, and I have never
    Russell> used dictionaries in Python, and despite the fact that
    Russell> you used mostly non-descriptive variable names, I can
    Russell> still read your code perfectly and know exactly what it
    Russell> does. I think I could use dictionaries now, just from
    Russell> looking at your code snippet.  Python rules :-)

Truly.

JDH







From news at yebu.de  Fri Jul 18 06:49:54 2003
From: news at yebu.de (Karl Scalet)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 12:49:54 +0200
Subject: "\n" in ASCII-file
In-Reply-To: <bf8j40$bj4e4$1@ID-108519.news.uni-berlin.de>
References: <bf8j40$bj4e4$1@ID-108519.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <bf8jcj$c4ttr$1@ID-141451.news.uni-berlin.de>

Martin P schrieb:
> Hello,
> 
> for a short exercise-program I have to read the lines in an ASCII-file.
> 
> But every line has a new-line-feed ("\n") at the end of the line. (The
> ASCII-file was made with Windows Notepad).
> Is this only because I used Windows (and Notepad)?
> 
> And... is there any special method to read lines from a file without "\n"?
> 
> Bye,
> Martin
> 
> 

If the file isn't very huge, you could try:

file('yourfile').read().splitlines()

gives you a list of lines w/o '\n'.

Karl




From zephyr01 at alltel.net  Wed Jul  9 11:09:36 2003
From: zephyr01 at alltel.net (Hans Nowak)
Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 11:09:36 -0400
Subject: Newbie - No module named stdwin
In-Reply-To: <beh8d4$gnu$1@topaz.icpnet.pl>
References: <beh8d4$gnu$1@topaz.icpnet.pl>
Message-ID: <3F0C3030.7030703@alltel.net>

K wrote:
> hello
> 
> All time all write programm's in Visual Basic but now i'm very excited and
> learn a Python so install 2.2.3 version...
> 
> When i wanna open a window (like windows) i write
> 
> inport stdwin
> stdwin.open ('my window')
> 
> and i have ImportError: No module named stdwin
> 
> Did i must install some package?? please help me

The stdwin package has been phased out long ago.  There are other, better GUIs 
that can be used with Python.  It comes with Tkinter, but it's easy to install 
a third-party package like wxPython (etc).






From brian at sweetapp.com  Thu Jul 31 13:17:09 2003
From: brian at sweetapp.com (Brian Quinlan)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 10:17:09 -0700
Subject: RELEASED Python 2.3 (final)
In-Reply-To: <slrnbii0lr.t6.bignose-hates-spam@rose.localdomain.fake>
Message-ID: <000501c35787$93219940$21795418@dell1700>

> Seems nice enough.  You'll only be able to assign to a mutable object
> anyway; 

This statement doesn't make any sense. Assignment to None is a name
binding operating is mutability is not a relevant issue.

> None is not mutable, and will soon be a keyword.  

None becoming a keyword is a valid reason.

Cheers,
Brian





From kp at kyborg.dk  Fri Jul 11 04:24:23 2003
From: kp at kyborg.dk (Kim Petersen)
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 10:24:23 +0200
Subject: Memory leak ?? [resolved - thank you]
In-Reply-To: <Nc6dnUzcbfn25pCiRTvUqw@speakeasy.net>
References: <3f0d5d3f$0$13154$edfadb0f@dread15.news.tele.dk> <Nc6dnUzcbfn25pCiRTvUqw@speakeasy.net>
Message-ID: <3f0e7438$0$13170$edfadb0f@dread15.news.tele.dk>

A.M. Kuchling wrote:
> On Thu, 10 Jul 2003 14:34:05 +0200, 
> 	Kim Petersen <kp at kyborg.dk> wrote:
> 
>>Using python-2.2.2-26 on RH9 (shrike) x86 -fully patched
>>
>>The following program slowly eats up more and more memory when run on
>>large datasets... can anyone tell what the trouble is?
> 
> 
> Your code uses eval(), which is pretty heavyweight because it has to
> tokenize, parse, and then evaluate the string.  There have been a few memory
> leaks in eval(), and perhaps you're running into one of them.  Try using
> int() or float() to convert strings to numbers instead of eval.  As a bonus,
> your program will be faster and much more secure (could an attacker tweak 
> your logfiles so you end up eval()ing os.unlink('/etc/passwd')?).

Thank you very much - it was eval()

this solved my trouble (calling get_list instead of eval) - is there a 
more generic/efficient way of solving reading a list/expression? (i know 
this one will fail for some strings for instance):

def get_value(str):
	str=str.strip()
	if str.lower()=='none':
		return None
	elif str[0] in ['"',"'"]:
		return str[1:-1]
	else:
		if str[-1]=='j':
			return complex(str)
		elif '.' in str or 'e' in str:
			return float(str)
		else:
			return int(str)

def get_list(str):
	try:
		if str[0]=='(':
			robj=tuple
		else:
			robj=list
		items=str.strip()[1:-1].split(', ')
		return robj(map(get_value,items))
	except:
		traceback.print_exc()
		print str
		return []

-- 
Med Venlig Hilsen / Regards

Kim Petersen - Kyborg A/S (Udvikling)
IT - Innovationshuset
Havneparken 2
7100 Vejle
Tlf. +4576408183 || Fax. +4576408188




From bogal2 at comcast.net  Tue Jul 15 19:16:02 2003
From: bogal2 at comcast.net (BogAl)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 18:16:02 -0500
Subject: Can't install csv parser
References: <MPG.197b80c54e88b1489896a6@news.in.comcast.giganews.com> <3f11ba56$0$6532$afc38c87@sisyphus.news.be.easynet.net> <m3r84tivkn.fsf@ferret.object-craft.com.au> <MPG.197c88885d4542c09896a8@news.in.comcast.giganews.com> <c76ff6fc.0307141554.e915b0b@posting.google.com> <MPG.197e17e35a78de759896ac@news.in.comcast.giganews.com> <mailman.1058298805.26202.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <MPG.197e55394a5cf3869896ae@news.in.comcast.giganews.com>

> Setup.py needs to know what of several things you want to do (just build the
> package, build and install the package, build a distribution, etc).  Try
> this command:
> 
>     python.exe C:\PYTHON22\LIB\SITE-P~1\CSV\SETUP.PY install
> 
> That should do any necessary building and install all the files.
> 
> Skip

Thanks, Skip.  I'm too used to just double-clicking things to run them 
and missed the part about supplying an argument.

At least I've learned a couple of things and maybe improved my setup a 
bit in the process.

BogAl 



From ad at am9atNOSPAMPLEASEspeedy.co.il  Wed Jul 30 12:09:59 2003
From: ad at am9atNOSPAMPLEASEspeedy.co.il (Adam)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 18:09:59 +0200
Subject: reading in lines from a file  -FAST!
In-Reply-To: <pan.2003.07.30.15.02.20.359182.15518@presidency.com>
References: <pan.2003.07.30.15.02.20.359182.15518@presidency.com>
Message-ID: <bg8n47$efk$2@news.iucc.ac.il>

Rajarshi Guha wrote:

> Hi
>  I have a file containing 168092 lines (each line a single word) and when
> I use
> 
> for line in f:
>   s = s + line
> 
> it takes for ages to read it all in - so long in fact that it makes the
> program unusable. Is there any way to do something like C's fread in
> Python so that I can just slurp in 1.7MB of data at one go, rather than
> reading line by line?
> 
> Thanks,
> Rajarshi

Assuming f is an open File Object, you can use:

string = f.read()

Which reads the entire content of f into string. Notice, though, that 
this solution isn't scalable: reading an entire file to memory becomes 
messier the larger the file, whereas reading it one line at a time works 
pretty much the same no matter how big the file is.

Adam




From jwhitlark at attbi.com  Tue Jul  1 00:05:19 2003
From: jwhitlark at attbi.com (Jason Whitlark)
Date: 30 Jun 2003 21:05:19 -0700
Subject: Exposing object model in Python?
References: <bdffi1$skho2$1@ID-174077.news.dfncis.de> <bdgvk5$sid7t$1@ID-174077.news.dfncis.de> <IrXKa.333801$3n5.129469@news2.central.cox.net> <mailman.1056722085.11922.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <d3464e8f.0306302005.719ddfd8@posting.google.com>

"Fredrik Lundh" <fredrik at pythonware.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.1056722085.11922.python-list at python.org>...
>     macrosource = getmacro(macroname)
>     code = compile(macrosource, macroname, "exec")
>     context = {}
>     # populate context with fun things
>     context["app"] = object_representing_my_app
>     exec code in context
> 
> (add exception handling as necessary)
> 
> </F>

Excellent, I was interested in that too.

Ok, here's something similar I've struggled with...  How do you
provide a macro recorder?  I have some idea how to just play back a
sequence of actions, (just store signals in a list, then fire them in
order), but how do you turn that back into python code, like in Word
VB?



From timr at probo.com  Tue Jul 15 01:13:20 2003
From: timr at probo.com (Tim Roberts)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 22:13:20 -0700
Subject: wxPython - question
References: <slrnbgre73.fld.pipen@beast.tu.kielce.pl> <3cp1hvgjkfeih2k3f0mo0he7mn4lmt7u7q@4ax.com> <slrnbh339p.dkj.pipen@beast.tu.kielce.pl>
Message-ID: <4737hvob87b2699fvqkhl61i9ufqm1jnc4@4ax.com>

"Artur M. Piwko" <pipen at beast_tu_kielce.pl> wrote:
>
>In the darkest hour on Sat, 12 Jul 2003 21:55:39 -0700,
>Tim Roberts <timr at probo.com> screamed:
>
>>>How can I remove program entry from taskbar (not tray)?
>> 
>> PLEASE resist the temptation to built Yet Another Tray Application.  Win32
>> programmers seem to use the tray icons as a sign of their guruness, and
>> every one of them seems to think that his application is so studly that it
>> must occupy permanent real estate on my desktop.  I've seen some trays that
>> bloat to 20 or 30 icons.
>> 
>> Don't do it.  Your application just isn't that important.  If you need to
>> notify me of something, I find nothing wrong with a good old-fashioned
>> dialog box.
>
>I am writing Jabber/others messenger. In this case, tray icon is not a sign of
>guruness, but user friendliness.

I disagree.  That is strictly a matter of opinion.

Now, a tray icon that does not exist until some actionable event occurs is
probably a very natural UI, but the same thing could be achieved by
plopping up a dialog box.  Even if I am running your messenger, yours is
not the only application I'm running by a long shot.
-- 
- Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
  Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.



From sybrenUSE at YOURthirdtower.imagination.com  Wed Jul 30 02:58:29 2003
From: sybrenUSE at YOURthirdtower.imagination.com (Sybren Stuvel)
Date: 30 Jul 2003 06:58:29 GMT
Subject: PyQt Help and Advice
References: <bg636k$408g$1@netnews.upenn.edu> <mailman.1059520783.12994.python-list@python.org> <pan.2003.07.30.00.31.50.414157@cs.rit.edu>
Message-ID: <slrnbier0s.86l.sybrenUSE@sybren.thirdtower.com>

Keith Jones enlightened us with:
> Any idea when Qt3.2 will have noncommercial support in windows?

Probably when Qt 4.x has been released. If you want to stay current
and free, try Linux instead.

Sybren
-- 
The problem with the world is stupidity. Not saying there should be a
capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the
safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself? 



From heikowu at ceosg.de  Fri Jul 18 12:29:09 2003
From: heikowu at ceosg.de (Heiko Wundram)
Date: 18 Jul 2003 18:29:09 +0200
Subject: reading Netscape mail folders
In-Reply-To: <72F73B808A78D511A73600034771D9FF7185BE@dc_exchange2.howrey.com>
References: <72F73B808A78D511A73600034771D9FF7185BE@dc_exchange2.howrey.com>
Message-ID: <1058545749.593.8.camel@d168.stw.stud.uni-saarland.de>

On Fri, 2003-07-18 at 16:47, PoulsenL at capanalysis.com wrote:
> I am attempting to process a number of email files that were copied from
> Netscape mail users.  I am using the email module, but it doesn't seem to
> adequately determine when an email is multipart.  In several instances it
> refuesed to parse a multi-gig text file as multiple emails.  Has anyone
> tackled this issue before with success?  Just point in the right direction
> and I can read on from there.

If you're doing what I was doing back then (I changed all my user's
mail-spool from Netscape Navigator 4.79 to IMAP by resending all mails
to themselves), you might find the attached script interesting. Anyway,
it shows how to open the mailbox, and how to iterate over the different
messages that are in there. I've never had trouble using it with NS-Mail
mbox Files.

HTH!

Heiko.
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From gml4410 at ggr.co.uk  Thu Jul  3 16:15:33 2003
From: gml4410 at ggr.co.uk (Lack Mr G M)
Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 16:15:33 BST
Subject: Building Python - how to set include and lib paths?
Message-ID: <2003Jul3.161533@ukwit01>

   I'm trying to build (compile and link) Python2.2.3,  However, I need
to indicate where it can find various library and header files for other
extensions which I have already built (things like ssl etc.).

   How may I configure the Python build process to look in these
directories, and to use these same values when building extension modules?

   All I can see is /usr/local/include and /usr/local/lib being forced
into use (I need to remove those, as that is *not* where I put things
and anything which is there might cause problems).

   Or is it impossible to configure Pyhton builds?

  [I also see it forcing /lib and /usr/lib into the library_dir
searches, which doesn't really make sens on an IRIX system, where you
should, by default, be looking in /lib32 and /usr/lib32.]

   I can't find anything in the README file about this, and the
configure script doesn't mention any such features.  Surely I'm not the
only person in the world who doesn't want to/can't put this into
/usr/local? 


-- 
--------- Gordon Lack --------------- gml4410 at ggr.co.uk  ------------
This message *may* reflect my personal opinion.  It is *not* intended
to reflect those of my employer, or anyone else.



From webmaster at beyond-thoughts.com  Fri Jul 18 14:09:04 2003
From: webmaster at beyond-thoughts.com (Christoph Becker-Freyseng)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 20:09:04 +0200
Subject: dumping command-history in python interactive mode
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1058479887.12228.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1058479887.12228.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3F1837C0.5050306@beyond-thoughts.com>

Hello,

thank You very much.
I did not find this tutorial with Google. I often use python to do 
system administration on a remote machine so I can't use IDLE.
ipython looks nice, too.

I added one more feature to the startup-script: Pressing C-w will put 
some code into the python-commandline that dumps the history to stdout. 
So you can cut'n'paste code (is there a way to define additional 
functions for key-binding in readline -- not just macros).
Unfortuantely it might cause trouble if "readline" was defined before.


Yours sincerly,
    Christoph Becker-Freyseng


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From ianb at colorstudy.com  Wed Jul  9 11:38:04 2003
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: 09 Jul 2003 10:38:04 -0500
Subject: Image Streaming
In-Reply-To: <381a2b17.0307090622.2e22a716@posting.google.com>
References: <381a2b17.0307072326.211c21b5@posting.google.com>
	 <mailman.1057652599.22950.python-list@python.org>
	 <381a2b17.0307090622.2e22a716@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1057765083.3735.1002.camel@lothlorien>

On Wed, 2003-07-09 at 09:22, Steffen Brodowski wrote:
> > have that function return the image object.  Then, assuming you are
> > doing this in CGI (easily adapted if not), do something like (untested):
> > 
> > import sys
> > image = CreateBarCode(...)
> > print 'Content-type: image/jpeg\n'
> > image.save(sys.stdout, 'JPEG')
> 
> 
> I think its more difficult.
> 
> The function CreateBarcode has to return the image directly.
> Additional you have to know, that I have to implement it into Zope. So
> I use the script as an "external method".  Modulname=Barcode,
> functionname=CreateBarcode.
> 
> I'm using the following line in Zope DTML
> <dtml-var "barcode(SourceString='123456789',Linewidth=1,WriteText=0)">

So then you don't want to stream it.  You might do something like:

from cStringIO import StringIO
def CreateBarcode(...):
    # create image object
    output = StringIO()
    image.save(output, 'GIF')
    return output.getvalue()







From peter at engcorp.com  Wed Jul  9 05:52:24 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 05:52:24 -0400
Subject: Comparing python and Perl - Network + administration
References: <mailman.1057733114.21353.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3F0BE5D8.7F5C6BA1@engcorp.com>

hamido wrote:
> 
> I am very-very new in Pyton langguage
> In my next project I will promote Python / Perl /Shell Programming

Seems a little premature... ;-)

> Is there any function or modules to make system administration  ( like
> shell-bash, Perl) ?

Yes.  Do you have a specific question?  An example of what you
are trying to accomplish?

Python has many such facilities, including os.system and friends,
the shutil module, and many more.  Many people use it for sysadmin
tasks, as some others use shell scripting and Perl of course.

-Peter



From news at exultants.org  Fri Jul  4 19:10:33 2003
From: news at exultants.org (Van Gale)
Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 23:10:33 GMT
Subject: Apache mod_python and Sessions
In-Reply-To: <20030704131617.4b1a73ca.scpusenet@werbung.schabi.de>
References: <20030704131617.4b1a73ca.scpusenet@werbung.schabi.de>
Message-ID: <3F0608CC.5030605@exultants.org>

Markus Schaber wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> Does anybody know a module that works with Apache 1.3 mod_python and provides session tracking?

Most of the python web programming frameworks have session handling. 
Here are a few:

Quixote http://www.mems-exchange.org/software/quixote/doc/
Albatross http://www.object-craft.com.au/projects/albatross/
Webware http://webware.sourceforge.net/
Jonpy http://jonpy.sf.net
Spyce http://spyce.sf.net
JOTweb http://jotweb.tummy.com/

More information can be found at:

http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/moinmoin/WebProgramming
http://colorstudy.com/docs/shootout.html

Here's an example of a module that does its own session handling using 
MySQL for storage:

http://cvsview.tldp.org/index.cgi/LDP/lampadas/pylib/Sessions.py?rev=1.12&sortby=author&content-type=text/vnd.viewcvs-markup

Van Gale




From mis6 at pitt.edu  Tue Jul 29 09:36:26 2003
From: mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato)
Date: 29 Jul 2003 06:36:26 -0700
Subject: metaclasses
References: <pan.2003.07.28.22.25.25.311058@webone.com.au>
Message-ID: <2259b0e2.0307290536.27e09be0@posting.google.com>

Simon Burton <simonb at webone.com.au> wrote in message news:<pan.2003.07.28.22.25.25.311058 at webone.com.au>...
> It seems this is a more general way to build classes than inheritance.
> Is this a reasonable viewpoint?
> 
> >>> 
> >>> def meth1(self):
> ...   print "i am meth1"
> ... 
> >>> def meth2(self):
> ...   print "i am meth2"
> ... 
> >>> Foo = type("Foo",(),{'meth':meth1}) # make a class
> >>> foo = Foo() # make an instance
> >>> foo.meth() # call a method
>  i am meth1
> >>> 
> 
> Simon.

Yes, they are basically class factories. They interfer in the creation
of classes in a somewhat magical way, and are inherited. See

http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/library/l-pymeta.html

for more (there is also a second, more advanced paper which should
appear soon, we sent it more than a month ago!)

 

            Michele



From timr at probo.com  Sun Jul 13 00:57:29 2003
From: timr at probo.com (Tim Roberts)
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 21:57:29 -0700
Subject: command prompt change dir
References: <belm3i$22ek$1@news.cybercity.dk>
Message-ID: <0kp1hvsbo0dlgu3200pg1rpk0nacfr2tlj@4ax.com>

"Peter Vestergaard" <posselt at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>Probably a simple question but I have not been able to find out how:
>I want my python script to generate a path based on some simple lookups and
>then change my path so that when the script exits my command prompt (from
>which I launched the script) is standing at this path. The path already
>exists.
>I have tried chdir(path), system('cd '+path) and many others but none
>changes my actual path.

How many times do you need to do this?  You can set the PATH environment
variable and spawn off a new copy of cmd.exe, which will inherit your
modified environment.
-- 
- Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
  Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.



From nospam at mega-nerd.com  Sat Jul 19 23:25:15 2003
From: nospam at mega-nerd.com (Erik de Castro Lopo)
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 03:25:15 GMT
Subject: If stereo WAV file's both channels are identical, change format to 
 mono for all files recursively
References: <mailman.1058605289.13944.python-list@python.org> <9a410299.0307191620.7fe274ab@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3F1A0B51.F69B258A@mega-nerd.com>

klappnase wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I think there might be at least 24 bit wav-files, if you have a
> soundcard that supports 24 bit, may be even more, for professional use
> or so.

Yep, both 24 bit PCM and 32 bit floating point encoded files
are un common use in professional and semi-pro audio recording.

Erik
-- 
+-----------------------------------------------------------+
  Erik de Castro Lopo  nospam at mega-nerd.com (Yes it's valid)
+-----------------------------------------------------------+
Windows NT : An evolutionary dead end.



From pythonguy at Hotpop.com  Tue Jul 29 08:53:26 2003
From: pythonguy at Hotpop.com (Anand Pillai)
Date: 29 Jul 2003 05:53:26 -0700
Subject: Debugging Python ?
References: <mailman.1059409013.10134.python-list@python.org> <vian1bbfkogpa1@news.supernews.com> <ef72fb2b.0307281449.6b144be7@posting.google.com> <3c91a864.0307282013.2acb2d1f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <84fc4588.0307290453.52671e11@posting.google.com>

It would be nice if you could give a name
to your email address, i.e if you are not
that paranoid as it seems.

~Anand

logistix at cathoderaymission.net (logistix at cathoderaymission.net) wrote in message news:<3c91a864.0307282013.2acb2d1f at posting.google.com>...
> pedro.werneck at bol.com.br (Pedro Werneck) wrote in message news:<ef72fb2b.0307281449.6b144be7 at posting.google.com>...
> > I use:
> > 
> > if __debug__: print "bla, bla, bla..."
> > 
> > And I was just wondering if it's legal to define a "print" function...
> > isn't print a keyword ?
> 
> Instead of defining "print" you can assign a custom class to
> sys.stdout.  Then all the print statements get automagically
> redirected.:
> 
> if __debug__:
>     class newStdout:
>         def write(self,string):
>             print string
> else:
>     class newStdout:
>         def write(self,string):
>             pass
> 
> import sys
> sys.stdout = newStdout()



From kp at kyborg.dk  Thu Jul 10 10:24:00 2003
From: kp at kyborg.dk (Kim Petersen)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 16:24:00 +0200
Subject: mx odbc
In-Reply-To: <3F0D6DC1.A7104D1C@hotmail.com>
References: <3f0accb5$0$13191$edfadb0f@dread15.news.tele.dk> <mailman.1057680332.32247.python-list@python.org> <3f0bce6d$0$13245$edfadb0f@dread15.news.tele.dk> <un0fnz7fu.fsf@fitlinxx.com> <3f0d32e5$0$13253$edfadb0f@dread15.news.tele.dk> <3F0D4728.45284530@hotmail.com> <3f0d5cfd$0$13154$edfadb0f@dread15.news.tele.dk> <3F0D6DC1.A7104D1C@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <3f0d7700$0$13156$edfadb0f@dread15.news.tele.dk>

Alan Kennedy wrote:
> Kim Petersen wrote:
>>Regarding the free marked - i agree - against the other - what is it
>>*exactly* that makes mxODBC a better quality product - noone has
>>seemed to be able to tell (and yes - you do in the above claim that...).
> 
> 
> Hmm, I'm not sure I get what you're trying to say here: what do you
> mean by "noone has seemed to be able to tell"? If by that you mean
> "what is it that makes mxODBC a better quality product", try the
> following
> 
> 1. Continually kept up to date with all versions of python
> 2. Continually kept up to date with all versions of ODBC standards
> 3. Continually maintained on a wide variety of platforms
> 4. Optimal memory and time efficiency because it's mostly coded in C
> 5. Etc, etc.
> 
> If these aren't the kinds of things that make software "better
> quality", then I have no idea what you mean.

Those qualities are all general product qualities, and may or may not 
have effect for your development. [hmm - i'm having a hard time 
formulating this in english - sorry if it gets out mangled]. A thing 
like: the type conversion (to and from) the SQL backend is highly 
efficient - would be a quality in my eyes.

In the world where i live, the platforms are fixed and tested for the 
software [eg. specific versions (Windows, Linux and SCO (urgh!))], 
memory and time efficiencies may have influence but generally don't (one 
of the reasons we use python btw. otherwise we'd stick with C/C++ or 
Delphi). If a customer upgrade's a system to something not recommended - 
well the trouble will come knocking on his wallet and be a welcome guest 
in ours.

> 
>>essence of my argument - the pricing of this *little* (but
>>essential) component drives the pricing of the end-product up
>>a substantial amount - that imho is not corresponding to the
>>usefulnes of the product.[and to use your argument from before -
>>i need to find another product then].
> 
> 
> No, you're thinking about it all wrong.
> 
> This little component, an ODBC driver, *does* correspond to the
> "usefulness" (i.e. quality) of the product. Or more correctly, if
> one is using a poor quality ODBC driver, then that contributes to
> the "uselessness" of one's product.
> 

Let me rephrase the part about why i find the pricing steep:

	1 developer licence for Qt:     1550$
         1 developer licence for mxODBC: 1025$

from my point of view - there _should_ be a correspondance between 
problem-domain and pricing.

> 
>>Can you mention even on spot where i complained against paying for
>>software ? (hint: the amount - not that it has a price).
> 
> 
> Kim Petersen wrote:
> 
> 
>>I'm not arguing that thats not important - *but* paying 70$ pr.
>>customer, is the equivalent of paying you for 1hr of support for
>>each customer [not installation mind you], where our own
>>licence/supportcost is already getting lower and lower... I find
>>that _extremely_ steep
> 
> 
> Fair enough, it was the amount you complained about, not that there
> was a cost. But is $70 really such a high cost? What percentage of the
> end-user cost of your product is required to pay for mxODBC?

That certainly depends on the product - if we run our full economics 
package for the customer - it would be negligible. If we're talking 
about a small contactdatabase (or a minor statistics module to run on a 
single desktop) - it certainly is substantial.

-- 
Med Venlig Hilsen / Regards

Kim Petersen - Kyborg A/S (Udvikling)
IT - Innovationshuset
Havneparken 2
7100 Vejle
Tlf. +4576408183 || Fax. +4576408188




From jepler at unpythonic.net  Wed Jul  2 11:41:52 2003
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 10:41:52 -0500
Subject: How to keep a Tkinter-Dialog on top of all other windows?
In-Reply-To: <3f02d84a$0$43850$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net>
References: <4b66f6d2.0307020435.345ff4f1@posting.google.com> <3f02d84a$0$43850$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net>
Message-ID: <20030702154149.GA19446@unpythonic.net>

my similar code here use HWND_TOPMOST.  This is apparently different
from HWND_TOP:

    HWND_TOP 
     Places the window at the top of the Z order. 
      
    HWND_TOPMOST 
     Places the window above all non-topmost windows. The window maintains
     its topmost position even when it is deactivated

as far as I know, this code works right with only one call, not a call
from a timer.

Jeff




From ccosse at asymptopia.com  Mon Jul 28 23:59:51 2003
From: ccosse at asymptopia.com (Charlie Cosse)
Date: 28 Jul 2003 20:59:51 -0700
Subject: Asymptopia BlackJack (written in Python)
Message-ID: <58329000.0307281959.5bc16221@posting.google.com>

Asymptopia BlackJack is written in Python and uses PyGame for
multimedia.

Version 1.2 contains both Windows and Linux install scripts.
Asymptopia BlackJack is a full-featured casino-style blackjack game
written in Python using PyGame for graphics. You play with up to 6
robots against the dealer. You can specify which player is you. It is
dynamic, addictive, and you don't lose real money. Teaches kids to
gamble (and count!)

http://www.asymptopia.com



From jkpangtang at yahoo.com  Fri Jul 11 17:06:10 2003
From: jkpangtang at yahoo.com (JW)
Date: 11 Jul 2003 14:06:10 -0700
Subject: Passing pointer to array from C to Python..and modifying same array in python?
Message-ID: <3607e8e4.0307111306.16ab4c6a@posting.google.com>

Hi,


Below is a description of what I would like to do. Would someone tell
me if it is possible and if so, how?

I have an array (presumably 'large') that is mallocced in a C function
and its
values are initialized in that same function.
I would like to pass just the pointer to the beginning of the array
from this C function to a Pyton function.
Then the python method can individually access and MODIFY individual
members of the array.
After the call to the python method, the C function will see any
changes to the array.

Can this be done?
I know how to create a PyTuple_New and change each member of the C
array into a PyObject, then add all thos PyObjects to the Tuple,
before passing that PyTyple from C to Python, but this seems slow.

Thanks in advance for your help.



From andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au  Wed Jul  9 07:20:00 2003
From: andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au (Andrew MacIntyre)
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 21:20:00 +1000 (EST)
Subject: Shared vs static link performance hit --and Windows?
In-Reply-To: <m3he5wgt9b.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
References: <k7clgvoqjur1f10mosue3os74vv7nd34hi@4ax.com>
 <mailman.1057672018.10107.python-list@python.org> <6btlgvgjq48mbtmu097939dl1c1gmki0qd@4ax.com>
 <mailman.1057713433.5610.python-list@python.org> <m3he5wgt9b.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <20030709205951.P86568@bullseye.apana.org.au>

On Wed, 9 Jul 2003, Martin v. [iso-8859-15] L?wis wrote:

> Andrew MacIntyre <andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au> writes:
>
> > AFAIK, Windows & OS/2 don't really use the concept of PIC code for DLLs,
> > as the DLLs get mapped into system address space rather than user address
> > space, and all processes that access DLL code access the code at the same
> > address.
>
> Wrong, atleast for Win32. In Win32, there is no "system address
> space"; each process has its separate address space.

Thanks for correcting my misconception; my Win32 development experience is
limited and skewed away from developing DLLs, so I haven't paid close
attention to the fine detail.

The important distinction between Win32+OS/2 and Unix is that the dynamic
linkage uses relocation fixup records to relocate Windows (& OS/2) DLLs,
whereas the dynamic linkage on Unix does not support the relocation action
for shared objects - hence the use of PIC on Unix.

--
Andrew I MacIntyre                     "These thoughts are mine alone..."
E-mail: andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au  (pref) | Snail: PO Box 370
        andymac at pcug.org.au             (alt) |        Belconnen  ACT  2616
Web:    http://www.andymac.org/               |        Australia




From tjreedy at udel.edu  Tue Jul 22 18:03:51 2003
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 18:03:51 -0400
Subject: recognizing empty iterators
References: <2259b0e2.0307210626.11a1bbf1@posting.google.com> <mailman.1058835583.22488.python-list@python.org> <2259b0e2.0307220744.156c95bf@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <L1OdndpE8sBVKYCiU-KYvw@comcast.com>

"Michele Simionato" <mis6 at pitt.edu> wrote in message
news:2259b0e2.0307220744.156c95bf at posting.google.com...
> I wanted to check the output of ifilter or imap; at the end I solved
> my problem in another way, nevertheless I am surprised there is no
> way to check for an empty iterator in current Python, it seems to be
> a quite legitimate question, isn't it?

As I understand, the iterator protocol was primarily designed to be
the *minimum* necessary to work (behind the scene) in

for item in iterable:
    <statements>

statements, replacing and improving upon the getitem interface (kept
only for use by old code and likely to disappear in 3.0 ).  It works
quite well for this designed purpose.  In this context one usually
does not even have a handle on the iterator and thereor no means of
calling a precheck method.

Iterators were secondarily intended for the equivalent

iterator = iter(iterable)
try:
    while 1:
        item = iterator.next()
        <statements>
except StopIteration: pass

Here the iterator is visibly bound, but the basic idea of 'process
each item' is the same.  In any case, it is the stark simplicity of
the protocol that makes possible the current version of generators and
the neat trick of transfering the function body to the .next method.

One who wants to add more to the interface should, I think, expect to
add code somewhere to make the added function come true.

Terry J. Reedy





From piet at cs.uu.nl  Sat Jul  5 12:27:11 2003
From: piet at cs.uu.nl (Piet van Oostrum)
Date: 05 Jul 2003 18:27:11 +0200
Subject: Newbie: Tkinter and macPython
References: <f9b7c11d.0306281825.5cf24367@posting.google.com> <wzadbt9glj.fsf@nono.cs.uu.nl>
Message-ID: <wzllvd7xcw.fsf@nono.cs.uu.nl>

>>>>> Piet van Oostrum <piet at cs.uu.nl> (PvO) wrote:

PvO> I guess you have downloaded a Python installation with proper Tkinter

of course that should have been ... without ...
-- 
Piet van Oostrum <piet at cs.uu.nl>
URL: http://www.cs.uu.nl/~piet [PGP]
Private email: P.van.Oostrum at hccnet.nl



From exarkun at intarweb.us  Fri Jul 18 08:16:20 2003
From: exarkun at intarweb.us (Jp Calderone)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 08:16:20 -0400
Subject: python-xlib -- high-level interface?
Message-ID: <20030718121620.GA11052@intarweb.us>

  Does anyone know of a high-level interface (something approximately on par
with the level of the other common GUI toolkits) for python-xlib?

  Is anyone working on one?

  Jp

-- 
"Pascal is Pascal is Pascal is dog meat."
                -- M. Devine and P. Larson, Computer Science 340




From pedro.werneck at bol.com.br  Mon Jul 14 14:50:32 2003
From: pedro.werneck at bol.com.br (Pedro Werneck)
Date: 14 Jul 2003 11:50:32 -0700
Subject: training for newbies
References: <betqim$8re$1@atlantis.news.tpi.pl> <betv87$4jq$1@atlantis.news.tpi.pl>
Message-ID: <ef72fb2b.0307140729.3d4125e7@posting.google.com>

> progress? i know that only way to develop is writing programs, but ...

Reading and improving existing good programs is usually a better
learning approach, in my opinion, because you will learn which
mistakes other people done and avoid them...



From bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au  Thu Jul 17 23:30:11 2003
From: bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au (Ben Finney)
Date: 18 Jul 2003 13:20:11 +0950
Subject: A challenge to the ASCII proponents.
References: <mailman.1058278343.23104.python-list@python.org> <bf167a$pvt$1@panix2.panix.com> <ufzl7rdno.fsf@online.no> <3F142A58.80426AA4@hotmail.com> <2259b0e2.0307161620.4a9353f1@posting.google.com> <Xns93BB246FDDBCFJanC@213.118.75.80> <3F168011.3AEB3EFC@hotmail.com> <3F172442.2040907@v.loewis.de>
Message-ID: <slrnbhea1p.3i2.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>

On Fri, 18 Jul 2003 00:33:38 +0200, Martin v. Loewis wrote:
> So what do you think about this message?:
> ????????

I think it looks like a series of identical question marks.  Presumably
you wrote it using a character set my terminal isn't using, and you had
no way of instructing my computer to use.

Even if you could, it's folly to assume that my computer has a font
containing the character set you used.

The only characters you know are in my computer's fonts are the
printable ASCII characters (ASCII 32-126).  Anything else is a minefield
of disparate character sets, font mappings and incomplete implementations.

Beyond that, even if I could read your message, it's even greater folly
to assume that I have some way of responding in kind, or of searching
for those characters.  I have no obvious way to generate them.

I'm not sure what Alan Kennedy's point is, but the current state of
play, while improving, does not allow for a universal way of generating,
displaying and searching international character sets.

-- 
 \             "Experience is that marvelous thing that enables you to |
  `\      recognize a mistake when you make it again."  -- Franklin P. |
_o__)                                                            Jones |
http://bignose.squidly.org/ 9CFE12B0 791A4267 887F520C B7AC2E51 BD41714B



From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Fri Jul  4 20:48:12 2003
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 4 Jul 2003 20:48:12 -0400
Subject: Google's netnews speed (was Re: pyBoards.com)
References: <191e20c8.0307031711.42d4e46b@posting.google.com> <3F05C39D.3F65B89C@engcorp.com> <be4ijf$oj2$1@panix3.panix.com> <3F05FFFE.DB98BF44@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <be578c$rrs$1@panix2.panix.com>

In article <3F05FFFE.DB98BF44 at engcorp.com>,
Peter Hansen  <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:
>Aahz wrote:
>> In article <3F05C39D.3F65B89C at engcorp.com>,
>> Peter Hansen  <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>Google Groups likely takes its feed directly of a Usenet site, and Usenet
>>>in general suffers from large propagation delay.  It is that delay, caused
>>>by messages filtering slowly across the Usenet network, which leads to the
>>>"5 answers" problem, not Google Groups itself.
>> 
>> Actually, Google uses at least two or three feeds (including
>> stanford.edu, which has a super-competent news admin), and Usenet
>> propagation is actually little short of e-mail speeds these days,
>> depending on where you're located.
>
>That might be, but empirically I've seen posts that I've made take 
>hours to get there, and I've seen posts that were made to the mailing
>list (and copied to me directly) take hours to get there.  In both 
>cases, there is an "upwards" propagation delay towards whatever hosts
>Google is milking before stanford.edu or the others will see it...

Peter, you're thinking less clearly than usual.  ;-)  My point was that
the delay does *not* come from the time it takes to propagate to Google,
but from the delay required to index and publish the index.  Google's
indexing technology is nothing short of amazing, but it is poor for
realtime updating of the index.  In the past, they have generally
updated the index only twice per day -- and quite frankly, given *my*
experience with full-text indexing (I used to work for Verity), I
consider that to be *frequent* updating given how bloody fast Google's
index is.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

Usenet is not a democracy.  It is a weird cross between an anarchy and a
dictatorship.  



From anton at vredegoor.doge.nl  Tue Jul  1 06:30:58 2003
From: anton at vredegoor.doge.nl (Anton Vredegoor)
Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 12:30:58 +0200
Subject: does lack of type declarations make Python unsafe?
References: <bresev47pva1a27odt1nlouppj27vh2pe0@4ax.com> <yQzHa.188017$g92.3811402@news2.tin.it> <qgiuev87lhuagv5fs1g5671id61p0mej7k@4ax.com> <a5WHa.197736$g92.4021282@news2.tin.it> <ur85r1mz1.fsf@boost-consulting.com> <c9%Ha.200753$g92.4077297@news2.tin.it> <uy8zy4vzs.fsf@boost-consulting.com> <pNfIa.206219$g92.4232233@news2.tin.it> <slrnbft9b1.fmd.kamikaze@kuoi.asui.uidaho.edu> <bdmr66$j5n$1@news.hccnet.nl> <slrnbfuu49.1vcv.kamikaze@kuoi.asui.uidaho.edu>
Message-ID: <bdro2o$cfk$1@news.hccnet.nl>

kamikaze at kuoi.asui.uidaho.edu (Mark 'Kamikaze' Hughes) wrote:

<discussing Java collections>
>> Since int doesn't derive from object, this will probably
>> fail:
>> c.add(1)
>
>  This is true, but it's completely unimportant.  It's annoying at
>times, but it's an optimization for efficiency; there are good reasons
>why Java is several times faster than Python at most tasks.  You can use
>the primitive wrapper classes:
>c.add( new Integer(1) );

Interesting, first define it as unimportant and next focus un Java's
strong points.

>  On the rare occasions that I have to deal with a lot of Integer
>objects, I use a cache of the most commonly-used ranges, but Java's
>object creation is well-optimized these days, so there's no great harm
>in just newing up an Integer.

Weaken the use case and insist that it can be done with little extra
trouble, if any remaining -unbelievably persistent- user still would
think there's a need for it.

>  Retrieving the value is done by the ugly but standard idiom:
>int n = ((Integer)it.next()).intValue();

Show how ugly it would be.

>  Or you can write your own int container class, if you need to do that
>kind of operation frequently.  I find that it rarely comes up, because
>Java's normally used at a higher level.

Associate it with uncommon low level activities.

>  Java's not *pretty*, but it's a powerful and expressive language.

Expose the requested feature as a tradeoff with performance and
expressiveness.

Reading all this I get a very warped feeling of deja vu, because these
kind of techniques are often used here to fend off "attacks" against
Python. 

Maybe the "complete reversal" technique is new so I'll try it out:

"does lack of type declarations make Python unsafe?"

No it makes it safer, because being able to produce code that is
easier to read improves the validity of the code. (Validity is defined
here by "Does the program do what you think it does")

Since languages using type declarations don't enable the coder to "fly
by wire" and force her into all kinds of ugly code constructs, changes
are the coder will get lost in the code labyrinth. Therefore for such
languages extreme caution and large amounts of tests are unavoidable.
Of course these efforts use valuable coder time that would be better
employed in "algorithm space" instead of in "implementation space".

Anton



From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Tue Jul  8 01:11:39 2003
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 00:11:39 -0500
Subject: getting a submatrix of all true
In-Reply-To: <m2fzli7y4c.fsf@mother.paradise.lost> (John Hunter's message of
 "Mon, 07 Jul 2003 17:47:31 -0500")
References: <mailman.1057173484.29754.python-list@python.org>
	<be0b84$89a$0@216.39.172.122>
	<52fe159d.0307041016.4dcb4a5c@posting.google.com>
	<m2isqel438.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>
	<m2fzli7y4c.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>
Message-ID: <m21xx1hab8.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

>>>>> "John" == John Hunter <jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu> writes:
    John>Using this approach, I was able to find a 893x67 submatrix
    John>with a score of 59831 versus the 462x81 submatrix with a
    John>score of 37422.

Onwards and upwards....  Since this is beginning to look like a
gradient descent algorithm, it is natural to worry about local minima.
So I followed the lead of simulated annealing algorithms and added a
little noise to the step where the decision to delete the row or
column is made, eg,

  from MLab import randn  
  def trim_missing(a, thresh=(0.05,0.05), sigma=0.005 ):
  ...snip...
          if fracRow-vthresh+sigma*randn()<fracCol-othresh:
              #delete the column
          else: 
              #delete the row

where sigma is like the temperature parameter of a simulated annealing
algorithm.

Repeatedly stepping over a variety of sigmas in search of a minimum
has yielded minor improvement for the dataset of interest. Best
results:

  Deterministic: 59831 893 67
  Random:        59928 908 66 for sigma=0.0017 

For random arrays the results are more striking.  For random matrices
500x500, comparing the scores of the deterministic (sigma=0) versus
random (best sigma in [0,0.01]) searches:
           
            score        score   
 % ones   mean determ  mean random    mean(ratio)  std(ratio) 
    1%     41753.2       42864.6         1.03         0.0093
    5%      5525.8        6174.2         1.12         0.06
   10%      1968.3        2193.9         1.12         0.05

For a matrix of the same number of total elements, but unbalanced in
the dimensions, eg, 1000x250, the results are more pronounced, in
favor of the random search algorithm

             score        score   
 % ones   mean determ  mean random    mean(ratio)  std(ratio) 
    1%     48724.0       51451.8         1.06         0.018
    5%      6340.5        7542.3         1.19         0.038
   10%      2092.5        2458.6         1.180        0.091

Below is a script that performs a random search of a random matrix for
a variety of sigmas.

JDH

from __future__ import division
import sys, time
from urllib import urlopen
from Numeric import *
from MLab import randn, rand, mean, std

def trim_missing(a, thresh=(0.05,0.05), sigma=0.005 ):
    """
    a is a numObservations by numVariables boolean matrix

    thresh = (othresh, vthresh) are the observation and variable
    thresholds that trigger deletion

      remove any rows where percent missing vars > vthresh
      remove any cols where percent missing obs > othresh

    This is done iteratively rechecking the percent missing on each
    iteration or row or col removal, with the largest offender removed
    on each iteration

    return value is score, rowInd, colInd where the two ind arrays
    are the indices of the rows and cols that were kept

    """
    othresh, vthresh = thresh # theshold for deletion
    dr=zeros(a.shape[0])   # Arrays to note deleted rows...
    dc=zeros(a.shape[1])   # ... and columns
    sizeleft=list(a.shape) # Remaining dimensions
    sr=sum(a,1)         # Column scores = ij's to remove 
    sc=sum(a,0)         # Row scores
    while 1:               # Keep deleting till none left    
        mr=argmax(sr)       # index highest row score
        mc=argmax(sc)       # index highest column score
        fracRow = sr[mr]/sizeleft[1]
        fracCol = sc[mc]/sizeleft[0]

        if fracRow<=vthresh and fracCol<=othresh: 
            break            # stop when missing criteria are satisfied
        if fracRow-vthresh+sigma*randn()<fracCol-othresh:
            sr=sr-a[:,mc]    # rows reduced by contents of column
            sc[mc]=0         # sum of column now zero
            dc[mc]=1         # tags column as deleted
            sizeleft[1]-=1
        else:   
            # deleting the row
            sc=sc-a[mr,:]    # columns reduced by contents of row
            sr[mr]=0         # sum of row is now zero
            dr[mr]=1         # tags row as deleted
            sizeleft[0]-=1

    score=(a.shape[0]-sum(dr))*(a.shape[1]-sum(dc))
    dr=compress(dr==0,range(a.shape[0]))  # gives return format of  
    dc=compress(dc==0,range(a.shape[1]))  # optimrcs posted by Bengt

    return score, dr, dc

results = []
for trial in range(10):
    a=rand(1000,250)
    a=where(a>0.90,1,0)

    score0, goodRows, goodCols = trim_missing(a, thresh=(0,0), sigma=0)
    maxScore = 0, score0, len(goodRows), len(goodCols)
    print 'Deterministic:', score0, len(goodRows), len(goodCols)
    for sigma in arange(0.0001, 0.01, 0.001):
        for i in range(10):
            score, goodRows, goodCols = trim_missing(
                a, thresh=(0,0), sigma=sigma)
            if score>maxScore[1]:
                #print '\t', sigma, score, len(goodRows), len(goodCols)
                maxScore = sigma, score, len(goodRows), len(goodCols)
    print '\t', maxScore

    results.append((score0, maxScore[1], maxScore[1]/score0))
results = array(results)
print mean(results)
print std(results)





From jepler at unpythonic.net  Thu Jul 10 18:54:28 2003
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 17:54:28 -0500
Subject: Embedding Python, threading and scalability
In-Reply-To: <bekg96$mi$1@panix2.panix.com>
References: <ec23a1ae.0307081354.5fc06cb@posting.google.com> <bekg96$mi$1@panix2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <20030710225424.GA13740@unpythonic.net>

On Thu, Jul 10, 2003 at 03:54:14PM -0400, Aahz wrote:
> Other people have mentioned Perl and Tcl in this thread.  I wonder how
> they deal with the problem of loading DLLs with static data.

As far as I know, tcl enforces a one interpreter to one thread requirement.
An extension should have only thread-local data, using a Tcl-supplied API.

Jeff




From nospamjynyl at yahoo.co.nz  Tue Jul 29 04:22:27 2003
From: nospamjynyl at yahoo.co.nz (Peter)
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 20:22:27 +1200
Subject: default import path
References: <3f24c37e@news.maxnet.co.nz> <bg3qn2$ev7$1@reader1.tiscali.nl>
Message-ID: <3f262f6b@news.maxnet.co.nz>

this quote is from GerritM of Tue, 29 Jul 2003 06:40 :
> "Peter" <nospamjynyl at yahoo.co.nz> schreef in bericht
> news:3f24c37e at news.maxnet.co.nz...
>> How can I edit the default import path for Python under Windows?
>>
>>
> create a piddle.pth file in the main Python directory (c:\prog~1\python in
> your case?), with the pathname of piddle as line of text in the file:
> c:\prog~1\python\lib\site-packages\piddle
> (check the last part, this is the directory on my machine)

Thanks!
I'll check it out next time I get to a machine running Windows.

cheers

Peter




From gh at ghaering.de  Fri Jul 18 07:59:08 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 13:59:08 +0200
Subject: "\n" in ASCII-file
In-Reply-To: <3F17D983.3000806@ghaering.de>
References: <bf8j40$bj4e4$1@ID-108519.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<3F17D983.3000806@ghaering.de>
Message-ID: <3F17E10C.7040209@ghaering.de>

Gerhard H?ring wrote:
> Most of the time, I want to strip any trailing whitespace and do 
> something like:
> 
> f = file("/path/to/my/file")
> for line in f:
>     line = line.strip()
>     # ...

s/strip/rstrip/g

-- Gerhard




From shane at zope.com  Fri Jul 25 21:00:00 2003
From: shane at zope.com (Shane Hathaway)
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 21:00:00 -0400
Subject: Static typing
In-Reply-To: <U9jUa.14576$OM3.4395@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
References: <3f218ef1$0$27926$626a54ce@news.free.fr> <3f219c8d$1@nntp0.pdx.net> <mailman.1059169958.20638.python-list@python.org> <U9jUa.14576$OM3.4395@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
Message-ID: <3F21D290.30403@zope.com>

On 07/25/2003 07:36 PM, Neil Hodgson wrote:
> Shane Hathaway:
> 
> 
>>Well, here's a pattern I've been trying out for this purpose: use assert
>>statements at the top of the function.
>>
>>def foo(bar, baz):
>>     assert isinstance(bar, int)
>>     assert isinstance(baz, str)
> 
> 
>    The Wing IDE will read assertions of the above form and provide more
> assistance than with identifiers it knows nothing about:
> http://wingide.com/psupport/wingide-1.1/node5.html#SECTION00580000000000000000

Excellent.  It's nice to have an idea validated. :-)

Shane





From bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au  Wed Jul 23 03:37:32 2003
From: bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au (Ben Finney)
Date: 23 Jul 2003 17:27:32 +0950
Subject: [OT] SCO is Going After End Users
References: <4868482a.0307211336.4ca9493a@posting.google.com> <Xns93C13235CC9E1JanC@213.119.4.141>
Message-ID: <slrnbhrugt.9jf.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>

On Wed, 23 Jul 2003 02:56:11 GMT, JanC wrote:
> This might be interesting "news" for SCO/Caldera:

... but not for comp.lang.python.  Please, don't give this stuff more
publicity.

-- 
 \     "Remember men, we're fighting for this woman's honour; which is |
  `\                probably more than she ever did."  -- Groucho Marx |
_o__)                                                                  |
http://bignose.squidly.org/ 9CFE12B0 791A4267 887F520C B7AC2E51 BD41714B



From pipen at beast_tu_kielce.pl  Tue Jul  1 06:53:27 2003
From: pipen at beast_tu_kielce.pl (Artur M. Piwko)
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 10:53:27 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Partition names with Python
References: <1056984252.3f004cbc6abd6@mail.uzem.itu.edu.tr> <mailman.1056988192.18351.python-list@python.org> <bdqsjr$tjb$0@216.39.172.122> <mailman.1057047963.15568.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrnbg2q16.pm7.pipen@beast.tu.kielce.pl>

In the darkest hour on Tue, 1 Jul 2003 18:25:46 +1000,
Andrew Bennetts <andrew-pythonlist at puzzling.org> screamed:
>> You might want to try something like
>> 
>>     import os
>>     print os.popen('mount').read()
> 
> Or simply reading /etc/mtab or perhaps /proc/mounts (this one is
> linux-specific, I think), rather than spawning a process.
> 

And /proc/partitions.

Artur

-- 
Before the Goat of Mendes... we all must take our turn   |  Artur M. Piwko
Into the magic circle... where still the fire burns      |  mailto:s/_/./
We're spinning round and round... until one takes a fall | -- Mercyful Fate
The fallen one will not return, the fallen one must burn | "Witches' Dance"



From davidb at mcs.st-and.ac.uk  Sun Jul 20 12:03:11 2003
From: davidb at mcs.st-and.ac.uk (David Boddie)
Date: 20 Jul 2003 09:03:11 -0700
Subject: Browser plugins
References: <bfdst8$2je$1@apollon.grec.isp.9tel.net>
Message-ID: <4de76ee2.0307200803.29c683a4@posting.google.com>

"Aur?lien G?ron" <ageron at videotron.ca> wrote in message news:<bfdst8$2je$1 at apollon.grec.isp.9tel.net>...

> I'd like to write a simple portable browser plugin for Internet Explorer,
> Netscape and if possible other navigators too. Is there a way to do that
> using Python?  For now I'd like to develop something like the GoogleBar, but
> I'd also like to know how to develop "in-frame" plugins such as Flash or
> Realplayer.

This would be a cool thing to be able to do but, as you can see from
your researches, if it was really easy then it would have been done
already.

> I searched comp.python.com history but all I came across was someone saying
> "why would you want to write Browser Plugins in the first place?".  A kind
> of disguised "don't know" if you ask me.
> I then looked on www.python.org but I soon found myself on ActiveX pages: I
> would hate to go that way because it seems neither simple nor portable.

There have been some discussions in the past about this. Searching
Google Groups using "Netscape plugin group:comp.lang.python" manages
to yield some results such as

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&safe=off&threadm=mailman.1036701490.23212.python-list%40python.org&rnum=3&prev=/groups%3Fq%3DNetscape%2Bplugin%2Bgroup:comp.lang.python%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26safe%3Doff%26scoring%3Dd%26selm%3Dmailman.1036701490.23212.python-list%2540python.org%26rnum%3D3

but the further back in time one looks, the less relevant the
references are.

> Any ideas?  Any links to documentation for browser plugins development?  Any
> code examples or open source project I could check out?

I tried embedding Python in a simple wrapper library to use with
Mozilla and Konqueror but found that it eventually came down to
passing events through to the toolkit that you want to use for the
plugin GUI. I didn't have any experience of this at the time so I
abandoned the project. However, most of the simple stuff, like
returning MIME types and plugin details was fairly straightforward.

I've no idea how you'd go about writing Python plugins for Internet
Explorer. If only it supported Netscape plugins...

Good luck, anyway!

David
-- 
davidb at mcs.st-and.ac.uk is not my real address.



From quadric at primenet.com  Wed Jul  2 13:05:37 2003
From: quadric at primenet.com (quadric at primenet.com)
Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 10:05:37 -0700
Subject: Running a Python script against an embedded mySQL server.
Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20030702095329.00a91238@pop3.norton.antivirus>

Hi,

I have an application that has an embedded/extended Python interpreter.  I 
need to add
database capabilities and for reasons to lengthy to explain in this email, 
also require
an embedded database server.  I have tentatively chosen mySQL 4.0 due to 
the apparent
ease of embedding, along with it having all the necessary database 
functionality I need.

The application executes Python expressions as well as running complete 
Python scripts via its
embedded interpreter.

The question is,  using msSQLdb , can I connect external Python scripts 
that the application
executes  to the embedded mySQL server ?

If so, are there any special considerations in doing this?


Thanks for your help.





From skip at pobox.com  Mon Jul 14 14:45:48 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 13:45:48 -0500
Subject: Any news on www.python.org being offline?
In-Reply-To: <5cf68ce0.0307141017.1f3fe18e@posting.google.com>
References: <5cf68ce0.0307141017.1f3fe18e@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <16146.64092.514393.134724@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    >> Website has been offline for more than an hour 11:18 PT.

Known problem.  We're working on it.

Skip




From rmunn at pobox.com  Fri Jul 18 14:35:26 2003
From: rmunn at pobox.com (Robin Munn)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 18:35:26 GMT
Subject: [OT] A challenge to the ASCII proponents.
References: <mailman.1058278343.23104.python-list@python.org> <bf167a$pvt$1@panix2.panix.com> <ufzl7rdno.fsf@online.no> <3F142A58.80426AA4@hotmail.com> <2259b0e2.0307161620.4a9353f1@posting.google.com> <Xns93BB246FDDBCFJanC@213.118.75.80> <3F168011.3AEB3EFC@hotmail.com> <3F172442.2040907@v.loewis.de>
Message-ID: <slrnbhgfgt.3e2.rmunn@localhost.localdomain>

(Restoring the [OT] marker in the subject because this is definitely
off-topic for a Python newsgroup. Well, I guess it might have a bearing
on Python's use of Unicode. Somehow. Remotely.)

Martin v. Loewis <martin at v.loewis.de> wrote:
> Alan Kennedy wrote:
>> For anybody who has MS Internet Explorer 5+, Netscape 6+, Mozilla 1+,
>> i.e. any browser that supports XML, simply save this to a disk file
>> and open it in your chosen browser.
> [...]
> 
>> So, the challenge to the ASCII proponents is: put the greek word
>> "gignooskoo" on everybody's screen, originating from a usenet message,
>> in the original greek, where "oo" -> greek letter omega.
> [...]
>> I expect you won't find it as simple as the XML above, although I'm
>> also completely prepared to be proven wrong (Alan tries to cover his
>> a** in advance ;-).
> 
> So what do you think about this message?:
> 
> ????????

I see eight identical question marks.

> 
> Look Ma, no markup. And not every character uses two bytes, either.
> And I can use Umlauts (???) and Arabic (???.????) if I want to.

I see an a-umlaut, o-umlaut, u-umlaut. But for the Arabic, I see three
question marks, a period, and four question marks.

Running slrn version 0.9.7.4 on Linux. My terminal is a PuTTY SSH
connection from a Windows box. slrn --version produces:

Slrn 0.9.7.4 [2002-03-13]
S-Lang Library Version: 1.4.7
Compiled at: Jan 12 2003 08:31:04
Operating System: Linux

 COMPILE TIME OPTIONS:
  Backends: +nntp +slrnpull +spool
  External programs / libs: -inews -ssl -uudeview
  Features: +charset_mapping +decoding +emphasized_text +end_of_thread
    +fake_refs +gen_msgid -grouplens +mime -msgid_cache +piping +rnlock
    +slang +spoilers -strict_from +verbatim_marks
 DEFAULTS:
  Default server object:     nntp
  Default posting mechanism: nntp
  Default character set:     isolatin
 SUPPORTED CHARACTER SETS:
  isolatin ibm850 ibm852 ibm737 NeXT koi8



Looking at a hex dump of this post, I see that your Unicode characters
have become ASCII question marks in my reply. Bad slrn! No biscuit!

-- 
Robin Munn <rmunn at pobox.com> | http://www.rmunn.com/ | PGP key 0x6AFB6838
-----------------------------+-----------------------+----------------------
"Remember, when it comes to commercial TV, the program is not the product.
YOU are the product, and the advertiser is the customer." - Mark W. Schumann



From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Jul  4 18:28:28 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 18:28:28 -0400
Subject: RTS/CTS and DTR/DTS control
References: <pan.2003.07.04.19.37.02.310028@kordik.net>
Message-ID: <3F05FF8C.AB2AE2B@engcorp.com>

Mike wrote:
> 
> Is there a library in Python that will give me control over the
> handshaking lines directly?

What OS/platform?



From christophe.delord at free.fr  Wed Jul  2 01:37:35 2003
From: christophe.delord at free.fr (Christophe Delord)
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 07:37:35 +0200
Subject: My Big Dict.
References: <mailman.1057119003.11991.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <20030702073735.40293ba2.christophe.delord@free.fr>

Hello,

On Wed, 2 Jul 2003 00:13:26 -0400, Xavier wrote:

> Greetings,
> 
> (do excuse the possibly comical subject text)
> 
> I need advice on how I can convert a text db into a dict.  Here is an
> example of what I need done.
> 
> some example data lines in the text db goes as follows:
> 
> CODE1!DATA1 DATA2, DATA3
> CODE2!DATA1, DATA2 DATA3
> 
> As you can see, the lines are dynamic and the data are not alike, they
> change in permission values (but that's obvious in any similar
> situation)
> 
> Any idea on how I can convert 20,000+ lines of the above into the
> following protocol for use in my code?:
> 
> TXTDB = {'CODE1': 'DATA1 DATA2, DATA3', 'CODE2': 'DATA1, DATA2 DATA3'}
> 
> I was thinking of using AWK or something to the similar liking but I
> just wanted to check up with the list for any faster/sufficient hacks
> in python to do such a task.

If your data is in a string you can use a regular expression to parse
each line, then the findall method returns a list of tuples containing
the key and the value of each item. Finally the dict class can turn this
list into a dict. For example:

data_re = re.compile(r"^(\w+)!(.*)", re.MULTILINE)

bigdict = dict(data_re.findall(data))

On my computer the second line take between 7 and 8 seconds to parse
100000 lines.

Try this:

------------------------------
import re
import time

N = 100000

print "Initialisation..."
data = "".join(["CODE%d!DATA%d_1, DATA%d_2, DATA%d_3\n"%(i,i,i,i) for i
in range(N)])

data_re = re.compile(r"^(\w+)!(.*)", re.MULTILINE)

print "Parsing..."
start = time.time()
bigdict = dict(data_re.findall(data))
stop = time.time()

print "%s items parsed in %s seconds"%(len(bigdict), stop-start)
------------------------------

> 
> Thanks.
> 
> -- Xavier.
> 
> oderint dum mutuant
> 
> 
> 


-- 

(o_   Christophe Delord                     __o
//\   http://christophe.delord.free.fr/   _`\<,_
V_/_  mailto:christophe.delord at free.fr   (_)/ (_)



From upandrunning247 at hotmail.com  Sat Jul 19 17:59:08 2003
From: upandrunning247 at hotmail.com (George Henry)
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 14:59:08 -0700
Subject: Strange (?) list comprehension behavior
Message-ID: <BAY1-F59s1wsXZZTHfy000061fc@hotmail.com>

I am a Python newbie, using IDLE, writing a lexical analyzer for a small 
expression language in Python 2.2.3.

class PSILex:
  ops = ["~", "!", "@", ... "|", "||", ... ]
  ...
  def __findAtom(self):
    result = ""
    ops = [op for op in PSILex.ops if self.text.startswith(op)]

... results in a traceback and "TypeError: expected a character buffer 
object." In trying to figure out what was going on, in the Python Shell I 
subsequently tried

>>>[op for op in PSILex.ops if "|| hello".startswith(op)]

with the same result. Printing type(self.text) immediately prior ot the 
above line proves that that attribute's type has not been compromised, so 
the problem appears to be with 'op'.

>>>[op for op in PSILex.ops if op.startswith("|| hello")]

yields "AttributeError: 'int' object has no attribute 'startswith'," 
however:

>>>[type(op) for op in PSILex.ops]

produces a list of <type 'str'> objects, as would be expected. So, what is 
op? Is it a string, an int, or something else? It appears that the 
interpreter may be confused. I persuaded the interpreter to cooperate by 
injecting an explicit evaluation of type(op):

        ops = [op for op in PSILex.ops if type(op) == type("") and \
               self.text.startswith(op)]

and this does what I want, and what I would expect without 'type(op) == 
type("") and '.

Can someone explain what is happening here? Or should I send my code to 
ww.python.org as a "defect report?"

Regards,
George

_________________________________________________________________
Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online  
http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963





From mis6 at pitt.edu  Thu Jul  3 11:46:10 2003
From: mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato)
Date: 3 Jul 2003 08:46:10 -0700
Subject: 'For' loop symmetry with list comprehensions.
References: <840592e1.0307021036.508d7d7d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <2259b0e2.0307030746.37262b78@posting.google.com>

hanzspam at yahoo.com.au (Hannu Kankaanp??) wrote in message news:<840592e1.0307021036.508d7d7d at posting.google.com>...
> One can currently say this with list comprehensions:
> 
> [x.lower() for x in words if x.startswith('foo')]
> 
> Wouldn't it be better if the normal 'for' syntax was symmetrical
> with the notation used in list comprehensions? To be more specific,
> it lacks the 'if' part. I.e. this should be possible:
> 
> for x in words if x.startswith('foo'):
>     print x
> 
> Naturally this is the same as:
> 
> for x in words:
>     if x.startswith('foo'):
>         print x
> 
> So one only benefits from one level shorter tabulation in
> some situations. I admit this isn't much of a benefit in terms
> of making shorter programs, but it would make the language
> more symmetrical, which I do consider a win. It's a feature
> that wouldn't need any learning or remembering since it's already
> used in list comprehensions.

+1

                        Michele



From wiebke.paetzold at mplusr.de  Wed Jul 30 05:32:38 2003
From: wiebke.paetzold at mplusr.de (Wiebke Pätzold)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 11:32:38 +0200
Subject: filter is Python
Message-ID: <tq3fiv0io8eviu4epv35t12o89cbuq5lvv@4ax.com>

Hi all!

I have to work with MetaKit. My job is it to filter. For example: If I
search for the initial letter "P", the programm should all results
print with this characteristic.
Couls somebody help me with this task?

Wiebke



From davidcfox at post.harvard.edu  Wed Jul 30 16:38:11 2003
From: davidcfox at post.harvard.edu (David C. Fox)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 20:38:11 GMT
Subject: Dict to "flat" list of (key,value)
In-Reply-To: <pan.2003.07.30.19.26.18.41642@removethis.nerim.net>
References: <pan.2003.07.30.19.26.18.41642@removethis.nerim.net>
Message-ID: <P0WVa.13852$cF.6163@rwcrnsc53>

Nicolas Girard wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> Forgive me if the answer is trivial, but could you tell me how to achieve
> the following:
> 
> {k1:[v1,v2],k2:v3,...} --> [[k1,v1],[k1,v2],[k2,v3],...]
> 
> The subtle point (at least to me) is to "flatten" values that are lists.

Well, I can get you at least part way, but there is an ambiguity in your 
original data structure which causes problems:

1.  d.items() will get you

[(k1, [v1, v2]), (k2, v3), ...]

2.  Now, you want to expand out the list elements where the second part 
of each tuple is a list, which you can do with.

     flatten = lambda u: map(lambda x: (u[0], x), u[1])

or, if the double lambda expression is confusing:

     def flatten(u):
         return map(lambda x: (u[0], x), u[1])

(I've used a tuple (u[0], x) instead of a list, because your [k1, vn] 
are always pairs, but you can use a list if you prefer)

Then flatten will take the nested element

     (k1, [v1, v2])

and convert it to a list of tuples

     [(k1, v1), [k2, v2])]

3.  You want to apply flatten to each element of d.items(), which you 
can do with

     lol = map(flatten, d.items())

which will give you a list of lists of tuples,

4.  and then reduce that to a list of tuples with

     reduce(operator.add, lol)


Unfortunately, this doesn't quite work with your example above, because 
flatten won't work properly when applied to (k2, v3).  If v3 is a 
sequence, it will instead give you [(k2, v3[0]), (k2, v3[1]), ...], 
which is probably not what you want (especially if v3 is a string - try 
flatten manually and see what happens).  If v3 is not a sequence, you'll 
get a TypeError saying that argument 2 to map() must support iteration.

If you *know* that v3 will NEVER be a list, you can modify flatten to 
handle the special case like so:

     def flatten(u):
         if isinstance(u[1], type([])):
             return (u[1], [u[2]])
         return map(lambda x: (u[0], x), u[1])

Alternatively, if you can modify how the initial dictionary is generated 
to ensure that cases where a key has a single value always appear as
k2: [v3] instead of k2: v3, then you can use the steps above without 
modification.  This is probably better if it is feasible, because your 
original data structure is inherently ambiguous unless you know that v3 
will never be a list.

David




> 
> Thanks in advance,
> Nicolas
> 
> 
> 
> ----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
> http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups
> ---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption =---




From irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl  Tue Jul 15 18:28:19 2003
From: irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 00:28:19 +0200
Subject: String Manipulation
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1058302644.12320.python-list@python.org>
References: <2c6431ab.0307151223.4173c4ee@posting.google.com> <mailman.1058302644.12320.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3f148002$0$49112$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

John Hunter wrote:

>>>>>>"lamar" == lamar air <lamar_air at hotmail.com> writes:
> 
> 
>     lamar> I need a piece of code that takes a string like this
>     lamar> string1 = "aaa/bbb/ccc/dd" and extracts a string
>     lamar> containting the character after the last "/"
> 
> One good way to do this is to split the string on the '/' character,
> which creates a list of strings
> 
>   >>> string1 = "aaa/bbb/ccc/dd"
>   >>> parts = string1.split('/')
>   >>> parts
>   ['aaa', 'bbb', 'ccc', 'dd']
> 
> Now you just want to get the last element of this list; python allows
> you to index with -1 to get the last element, -2 to get the second to
> last, etc...
> 
>   >>> parts[-1]
>   'dd'
> 
> JDH
> 

While is is perfectly acceptable, you might want to consider another
solution if it is *path names* you are manipulating:

 >>> import os
 >>> os.path.split("aaa/bbb/ccc/dd")
('aaa/bbb/ccc', 'dd')
 >>> os.path.split("aaa/bbb/ccc/dd")[1]
'dd'


because this will work correctly on other platforms too when the
path separator is not '/'.

--Irmen de JOng




From mcfletch at rogers.com  Mon Jul 21 18:33:27 2003
From: mcfletch at rogers.com (Mike C. Fletcher)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 18:33:27 -0400
Subject: properties + types, implementing meta-class desciptors elegantly?
In-Reply-To: <7h3n0f8yspt.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>
References: <mailman.1058532630.7342.python-list@python.org> <7h3znjbzscu.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk> <7h3n0f8yspt.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <3F1C6A37.1070205@rogers.com>

Michael Hudson wrote:

>Michael Hudson <mwh at python.net> writes:
>
>  
>
>>"Mike C. Fletcher" <mcfletch at rogers.com> writes:
>>
>>    
>>
>>>So, does anyone have a pattern which allows setting an attribute on
>>>a class which doesn't go through the setattr machinery (i.e. can be
>>>used within a descriptor)?
>>>      
>>>
>>No.  Fun problem to think about, though :-)
>>    
>>
>
>Actually, that was a lie.  Check this horror out:
>
<snip>

>I'm quite proud of this one :-)
>
Rightly so, all evil geniuses should always gloat over their mad 
creations :) .  Unfortunately, it appear to tickle a Python 2.2.3 bug 
where setting a descriptor on a meta-class doesn't reinstate capturing 
of the __get__ for the attribute.  I filed a bug report for that here:

https://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=775328&group_id=5470&atid=105470

Other than that, and it's intrinsicly *evil* nature, it does, indeed, do 
what I was looking for.

BTW, you're creating a property whose *value* (albeit a static value) is 
shared by all instances of the meta-class, rather than one that's 
specific to the individual class.  Here's code that, if the bug above 
weren't active would do the more "normal" per-instance property pattern 
(with the same evil mechanism):

class MetaProp(object):
    def __init__(self, val):
        self.val = val
    def __get__(self, ob, cls=None):
        print 'metaprop get'
        for k in ob.__class__.__dict__:
            if ob.__class__.__dict__[k] is self:
                delattr(ob.__class__, k)
                break
        else:
            raise Exception, 'not found'
        newValue = ob.__dict__.get( k, self.val) + 1
        setattr(ob, k, newValue)
        setattr(ob.__class__, k, self)
        return newValue

class Meta(type):
    p = MetaProp(1)

class C:
    __metaclass__ = Meta
class D:
    __metaclass__ = Meta
   
print C.__dict__.keys()
print C.p
print C.__dict__.keys()
print C.p
print C.p
print D.p
print D.p

On Python 2.2.3 that prints out (showing the bug above):
P:\temp>metaprop.py
['__dict__', '__weakref__', '__module__', '__metaclass__', '__doc__']
metaprop get
2
['p', '__module__', '__metaclass__', '__dict__', '__weakref__', '__doc__']
2
2
metaprop get
2
2

But really, I don't think either of us will deploy that particular 
pattern in a production system.  Still, fun proposal, thanks for 
playing, we have lots of marvelous parting gifts for you :) .

BTW: You know this, but in case others are wondering why it's not usable 
in real life: it's possible to have threads get/set the value without 
triggering the descriptor if they happen to ask for it during the period 
when the descriptor is deleted.

Enjoy,
Mike

_______________________________________
  Mike C. Fletcher
  Designer, VR Plumber, Coder
  http://members.rogers.com/mcfletch/







From timr at probo.com  Tue Jul 15 02:46:05 2003
From: timr at probo.com (Tim Roberts)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 23:46:05 -0700
Subject: Qualified appology (was Re: anything like C++ references?)
References: <b8c3hvsesjoumiboobml3nsnajtha99mp1@4ax.com>  <mailman.1058129901.28248.python-list@python.org>  <plk3hv0s1m2egf4s34jo6vjedk0q8r2mu9@4ax.com>  <m365m6ul5c.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>  <1br3hv4434gn7p2pdg1bgtg8dtlak3id3s@4ax.com>  <f0f51c80.0307140708.3c88363d@posting.google.com>  <jm76hvkmdqq3erpd89mcvo0l1d0sbfcivm@4ax.com> <20030714172215452-0600@news.xmission.com> <rqu6hvgooedmq475ig3ic9ngqgj6uq0hv2@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <gj87hv8gqpbv6032plo7nnnkmp56nq6q6p@4ax.com>

Stephen Horne <intentionally at blank.co.uk> wrote:
>
>Whatever. I've admitted the mistakes that I recognise I've made. If
>you think there are other mistakes that I haven't recognised, its up
>to you whether you explain them or not.
>
>Just 'cause I can't sleep the last few nights, doesn't mean anyone has
>to read my rantings, much less reply. Even if they *are* accurate
>rantings ;-)

By the way, I would like to state for the record my amazement at how civil
and intellectual this debate remained, even though there are some very
strongly felt and completely contradictory opinions on both sides.  It is
quite rare that one finds a netnews newsgroup where this kind of debate can
go on without collapsing into valueless flame wars.

Whether or not I agree with you, you have made me think.  That's worth the
price of my Internet connection this month.
-- 
- Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
  Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.



From ebolonev at rol.ru  Thu Jul  3 11:04:34 2003
From: ebolonev at rol.ru (Egor Bolonev)
Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 02:04:34 +1100
Subject: Reading an image file data.........
References: <mailman.1057240207.12496.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <be1gml$p77$1@news.rol.ru>

Hello, Suresh!
You wrote  on 3 Jul 2003 13:49:41 -0000:

 SK> Hi,
 SK>    I scanned a page of my textbook and stored as a JPEG file. Now 
 SK> i want to read a text from the JPEG image which is at some 
 SK> location, say from (100,100) to (300,300). How can i read it? I am 
 SK> using PIL module for image handling and tkinter. Moreover i am new 
 SK> to PIL module.  Is it possible to read a text from a JPEG file in 
 SK> python/tkinter?

Do you know what the OCR is?

[Sorry, skipped] 

With best regards, Egor Bolonev.  E-mail: ebolonev at rol.ru [ru eo en]




From jepler at unpythonic.net  Mon Jul 28 16:22:29 2003
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 15:22:29 -0500
Subject: How to stop screensaver from starting up
In-Reply-To: <9a410299.0307280614.444cc2b2@posting.google.com>
References: <9a410299.0307280614.444cc2b2@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20030728202229.GD14508@unpythonic.net>

On Mon, Jul 28, 2003 at 07:14:44AM -0700, klappnase wrote:
> Hello everyone,
> 
> does anyone know a way to stop the screensaver under linux from
> starting up while a certain process is running?
> I need this because I experience a memory leak while recording
> wav-files every time the screensaver starts.
> It is a Tkinter application, btw.
> Any help would be very appreciated.

For systems using xscreensaver, see xscreensaver-command(1).

You could use
    xscreensaver-command -throttle
to force screen blanking (not screensaver) when the system is idle
or 
    xscreensaver-command -exit
to force the screensaver process to exit.  In the former case, you would
use
    xscreensaver-command -unthrottle
to restart the screensaver, and in the latter case
    xscreensaver -nosplash
in the latter.

This is not robust if multiple processes all try to manipulate the
screensaver without some additional kind of locking.

Jeff




From intentionally at blank.co.uk  Wed Jul 16 19:09:13 2003
From: intentionally at blank.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 00:09:13 +0100
Subject: anything like C++ references?
References: <mailman.1058377226.21359.python-list@python.org>  <20030716130631003-0600@news.xmission.com>  <8sdbhvk5b5ia2onmbca4ajkaidpu3ht9ed@4ax.com> <20030716160013839-0600@news.xmission.com>
Message-ID: <jkjbhvg9hcvi937ief7f1copskmogpfbmj@4ax.com>

On Wed, 16 Jul 2003 22:00:22 +0000 (UTC), Adam Ruth
<owski at hotmail.com> wrote:

>In <8sdbhvk5b5ia2onmbca4ajkaidpu3ht9ed at 4ax.com> Stephen Horne  wrote:
>> On Wed, 16 Jul 2003 19:06:40 +0000 (UTC), Adam Ruth
>> <owski at hotmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>>You are correct in that there are times when pointer semantics would 
>>>be  somewhat useful, but they're never necessary.  His statement was 
>>>that  there are time that "you really can't avoid pointers".
>> 
>> Hmmm - those words were in a context. I never claimed that "you really
>> can't avoid pointers" in *current* Python - that's obviously not true.
>> But if the copy-on-write stuff were implemented, the need would arise.
>> For example...
>
>It sure seemed that way to me:
>
><prior dicussion>
>>>They're an unhappy necessity, akin to stop-lights.  You need them
>>>because roads intersect, but if roads don't intersect, don't use them!
>>
>>Absolutely true. And the worst thing you can do when you really can't
>>avoid pointers is to obscure the issue even more by disguising them as
>>something else.
></prior discussion>

Right - "the worst thing you can do when you really can't avoid
pointers" is not the same as "really can't avoid pointers".

You have taken the condition out of a conditional scentence and quoted
it as if it were a statement. That's a pretty clear case of quoting
out of context to misrepresent what someone said, isn't it.

Now lets restore the rest of what Adam said...

: I came to Python from Ada, and all I have to say is:  Pointer-like
: semantics are evil.  They're worse than goto's, they're deadly,
: damaging, and should be avoided at all costs.
: 
: They're an unhappy necessity, akin to stop-lights.  You need them
: because roads intersect, but if roads don't intersect, don't use them!

Guess what - when Adam said pointers are an 'unhappy necessity' he was
talking about ADA - NOT PYTHON. In Ada, pointers (or rather access
types) are definitely not overused (where I worked you needed
management permission and a damned good reason to use them due to the
military contract terms), but sometimes they are unavoidable.


Please be more careful what you snip.

>The reference is passed by value 
>to the function, just as you describe it should.

Yes - there has to be pass-by-value at some level since Python is
implemented in C. But to me this just says that we are seeing the
side-effect of an implementation detail.

No need to argue this - you don't need to explain it to me because I
understand. It just see things from a different perspective.

  Python, however, has a 
>futher layer of abstraction on top of its one data type, and that's 
>objects.  I would venture that it's the extra layer of abstraction that 
>makes Python work in a more intuitive, proper way.
>
>This is, however, just my opinion.  But it does seem that new 
>programmers who learn this abstraction find it natural and simple.  It's 
>people coming from C, et al., that seem thrown off by it.

No, my background isn't just in C - that is a long way from being the
first language I used, and I've used Python regularly longer than C++.

>As a side note, based on your description of your eduction and studies 
>in an earlier post, I realize now how different our backgrounds seem to 
>be.  I'm coming from a world where the focus is engineering (Ada is the 
>only language purpose-built for engineering, AFAIK).  You seem to come 
>from a background more focused on science and theory.

Nope - I just happen to be interested in learning the theory too, and
particularly in experiencing a broad range of languages to understand
the ideas behind them.

How come you didn't notice ada in my list?

About the first half of my programming career was working in the
defence industry as a software engineer. A lot of that was working at
very low level stuff (the 80c196kc microcontrollers I mentioned) and
with a lot of messing around with target hardware and in-circuit
emulators. The rest of my time in defence was spent using Ada.

I first messed around with writing my own language quite young, with
an Atari ST. I liked the idea of text adventures and decided to write
one, but basically got caught up in the engine and the scripting
stuff. Pretty cool, though, through the rose-tinted glasses of memory.

Anyway, I stayed interested in compilers and stuff, but the reason I
got interested in LR and parsing theory has little to do with parsing
as most see it. A grammar, seen as describing a sequence of tokens,
can deal with many things - the tokens don't have to be words. They
might be events, for instance. And the state of the 'parser' may be
used to select a response strategy in an AI. I wanted it for a game I
was going to write a few years back which would construct strategies
from various elements by building them into a kind of grammar, and use
the resulting state model as a real time AI.

>Perhaps this is 
>the cause of our different world views (on this issue).  Just a thought, 
>though it is interesting we both chose Python.

Strictly speaking, the reason I chose Python at the time was because
at work we used macs with terminal emulators. If you wanted a utility,
you either wrote it under VMS or you were stuffed as mac interpreters
and compilers were hard to come by.

I see it as one of the happiest flukes - I just wish I'd found Python
earlier.




From Robert at AbilitySys.com  Mon Jul 14 20:46:21 2003
From: Robert at AbilitySys.com (Robert at AbilitySys.com)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 17:46:21 -0700
Subject: Stop Python from exiting upon error in Windows
Message-ID: <vh6jmv2f767h8b@corp.supernews.com>

Environment: Windows XP, Python 2.2.2

How can I stop the Python interpreter from exiting when an error occurs?

When I use IDLE (right click a .py file and choose Edit with IDLE) I can run
the app and read the errors in the interpreter window. But when I just
double-click on the .py file, it runs OK but the window closes at exit (how
to stop that? but not a problem if everything works), but also closes the
window after an error - way too fast for me to see what the error actually
was. I can Try/Except anything I can think of, but there are always errors I
didn't think of, and I'd like to see them, please... :)

- Robert





From mwh at python.net  Thu Jul 17 09:27:52 2003
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 13:27:52 GMT
Subject: Replacing rexec
References: <mailman.1058378245.3305.python-list@python.org> <bf455m$1sr$1@panix3.panix.com> <87adbd73f1.fsf@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <7h3znjd1e8m.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee) writes:

> Isn't it true that the only solution to a program taking up too much
> of a system's resources is to cap its resource usage, or stop it
> running?  Usually, it's the OSs job to do that (which you might view
> as almost the definition of an OS, perhaps) -- is that a bad thing?

I wouldn't say so, and in some circumstances you can use the OS to
limit the other sorts of damage a rogue script can do (chroot(),
jail(), whatever).  If I had to worry about these sorts of things
(which I don't), this would probably be the first place I'd look.

Cheers,
M.

-- 
  ... when all the programmes on all the channels actually were made
  by actors with cleft pallettes speaking lines by dyslexic writers
  filmed by blind cameramen instead of merely seeming like that, it
  somehow made the whole thing more worthwhile.   -- HHGTG, Episode 11



From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Jul  7 11:53:53 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 11:53:53 -0400
Subject: Socket Win32 IO
References: <99071af2.0307070647.6ab3e329@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3F099791.6AA68B8F@engcorp.com>

jose maria wrote:
> 
> Hi all I?m a newbie in python Im try to modify in win32 IOTCL of file
> handle socket to set parameter 0x98000001 but i have error
> (api_error:(1, 'DeviceIoControl', 'Incorrect function.'))
> and I dont know how continue.
> the porpuse of this code its to make a simple sniffer
> 
> fh=Sock.fileno() # Get file handle
> test=win32file.DeviceIoControl(fh,SIO_RCVALL,'',0) # Failed
> ....
> ....

Is that ("incorrect function") really the error you are getting?
Can you post the actual traceback, if it's not?  

I get either of these when playing with DeviceIoControl, but not
what you showed:

>>> win32file.DeviceIoControl(3, 0x98000001, '', 0)
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
pywintypes.api_error: (6, 'DeviceIoControl', 'The handle is invalid.')
>>> from socket import *
>>> s = socket(AF_INET, SOCK_STREAM)
>>> s.fileno()
32
>>> win32file.DeviceIoControl(32, 0x98000001, '', 0)
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
pywintypes.api_error: (87, 'DeviceIoControl', 'The parameter is incorrect.')

-Peter



From cliechti at gmx.net  Tue Jul 29 14:13:30 2003
From: cliechti at gmx.net (Chris Liechti)
Date: 29 Jul 2003 20:13:30 +0200
Subject: Python on a USB storage device?
References: <VXcVa.28$HY3.42617@news.uswest.net> <bg5vpm$32p$1@scotsman.ed.ac.uk> <slrnbid6a7.7na.sybrenUSE@sybren.thirdtower.com>
Message-ID: <Xns93C7CDC16A2FEcliechtigmxnet@62.2.16.82>

Sybren Stuvel <sybrenUSE at YOURthirdtower.imagination.com> wrote in 
news:slrnbid6a7.7na.sybrenUSE at sybren.thirdtower.com:
> You can also install Linux on a USB storage device and hope the
> computer it has to run on supports booting from USB ;-)
> 
>> It would work on Linux too except you need to have permission to
>> create mount tables etc. to get the filesystem.
> 
> Running your own Linux off the USB stick solves that problem.

Knoppix (http://www.knopper.net/knoppix/) is a bootable Linux CD.
that way you dont have to rely on anything on the PC except some RAM and a 
BIOS that can boot from CDROM.
you can keep your own files on a USB stick, a floppy or the same CD.

there are even Knoppix derrivates for the small (8cm) CDs and for USB 
sticks.

ok, enough advertising for other things ;-)

chris

-- 
Chris <cliechti at gmx.net>




From adfgvx at free.fr  Thu Jul 31 16:23:53 2003
From: adfgvx at free.fr (adfgvx)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 22:23:53 +0200
Subject: HTML DOM parser?
References: <7x7k5y5wfh.fsf_-_@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <3f297adb$0$19537$626a54ce@news.free.fr>

Try tidy. There are two python wrappers : mxtidy and utidy, the latest is
more recent and use the new tidylib. BUT it will only correct a bad html
page and transform it to an xml or xhtml output that you load after as a DOM
with another parser. Personnaly I use pyRXP.

Bruno Lienard


"Paul Rubin" <http://phr.cx at NOSPAM.invalid> a ?crit dans le message de news:
7x7k5y5wfh.fsf_-_ at ruckus.brouhaha.com...
> Is there an HTML DOM parser available for Python?  Preferably one that
> does a reasonable job with the crappy HTML out there on real web
> pages, that doesn't get upset about unterminated tables and stuff like
> that.  Many extra points if it understands Javascript.  Application is
> a screen scraping web robot.  Thanks.





From thedustbustr at aol.com  Fri Jul 25 15:28:44 2003
From: thedustbustr at aol.com (TheDustbustr)
Date: 25 Jul 2003 19:28:44 GMT
Subject: stackless python: continuation module?
Message-ID: <20030725152844.18704.00000635@mb-m18.aol.com>

I just downloaded the uthread module for stackless python.  Whenever I import
it it says it can't find the continuation module.  Anyone know where I can get
it?

Thanks, Dustin



From adechert at earthlink.net  Mon Jul 21 13:44:11 2003
From: adechert at earthlink.net (Alan Dechert)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 17:44:11 GMT
Subject: Voting Project Needs Python People
Message-ID: <LDVSa.14955$Mc.1126731@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>

We've decided to go with Python for the demo of the voting machine I
described on this forum yesterday.  Thanks to all of you for your feedback.

We have an excellent team together.  We're looking for a few good Python
coders willing to volunteer for this free open source project.  It will be
on sourceforge.net later today.

I can't offer you any money right now but I think it will be a good
opportunity for Python users and the Python community in general.  It's
likely to be fairly high-profile and will gain significant exposure for
Python.

Here are some of the people involved:

University of California Santa Cruz computer science graduate, Adrianne Yu
Wang will be the project administrator and lead the project.

http://home.earthlink.net/~adechert/adrianne_resume.doc

She will get help from Jack Walther, a UCSC graduate student and big Python
fan.

http://www.cse.ucsc.edu/~jdw/

They will be advised by computer science professors Doug Jones (U of Iowa)
and Arthur Keller (UCSC)

http://www.cs.uiowa.edu/~jones/

http://www.soe.ucsc.edu/~ark/

Ed Cherlin will also act in a mainly advisory role but will assist with the
design of the project and documentation.

http://home.earthlink.net/~adechert/cherlin_resume.doc

We anticipate that a successful demo will help expedite funding for the
overall project which is aimed at implementing a uniform transparent voting
system.  We have very prominent academics interested in the project from
many of the top universities around the country: Political scientists,
lawyers, economists, computer scientists, and psychologists.

Stanford computer scientist David Dill has been helpful (he referred Ed
Cherlin and Prof Keller to me, among others).  Professor Dill has gotten
involved in voting modernization issues in a big way.

http://www.verifiedvoting.org/index.asp

Henry Brady was my co-author for the original UC Berkeley proposal for
California.

http://home.earthlink.net/~adechert/src_proposal.html

Professor Brady is widely known for his papers and books on voting systems.
The main author of the Caltech-MIT reports from their voting project, Steve
Ansolabehere was one of Henry's students when Henry taught at Harvard.
Henry has two Ph.D.s from MIT.

http://www.apsanet.org/new/2003chairs.cfm

We are pulling together a great voting modernization projects.  It's an
opportunity to get in on it at an early stage.  It should be rewarding for
you, your community, and democracy.

Please contact me if you want to join us.

-- Alan Dechert  916-791-0456
adechert at earthlink.net






From ianb at colorstudy.com  Sun Jul 27 15:05:02 2003
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: 27 Jul 2003 14:05:02 -0500
Subject: Web tool kit : pro - cons ?
In-Reply-To: <3f23b02b$0$276$ba620e4c@reader1.news.skynet.be>
References: <3f23003f$0$266$ba620e4c@reader0.news.skynet.be>
	 <3f23034d$0$49103$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
	 <3f230835$0$280$ba620e4c@reader0.news.skynet.be>
	 <mailman.1059268366.2051.python-list@python.org>
	 <3f23b02b$0$276$ba620e4c@reader1.news.skynet.be>
Message-ID: <1059332701.24476.14709.camel@lothlorien>

On Sun, 2003-07-27 at 05:58, vincent_delft wrote:
> >> - My pages will be defined with "boxes".  I would like to have a tool
> >> that can manage easely such "object".
> > 
> > You mean a WYSIWYG web development IDE for Python? I don't think there's
> > such a thing.
> > 
> No.  Each part of the web page will be "boxes".  I would like to be very
> flexible and display "dynamically" some selected boxes.
> For example the same page (url) will not display the same boxes if you are
> administrator, maintener or simple viewer.
> An another example will be to have possibility to re-use existing boxes.  If
> I have a boxes displaying the last 5 news from Slashdot, I don't want to
> re-write it each time I need a new bacground color (for example). My Idea
> is to use those "boxes" like we use classes : if you need some modification
> you subclass it on the rest remains the same.

You might want to look at Cheetah, where templates are mapped to Python
classes.  This allows subclassing of templates, defining methods (e.g.,
a header method), and of course nesting templates.

  Ian






From essai1 at mci.local  Tue Jul  1 08:35:36 2003
From: essai1 at mci.local (News M Claveau /Hamster-P)
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 14:35:36 +0200
Subject: Want to create an ActiveX object from a Python class
References: <34ac6a99.0306300955.4202abb5@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bdrv74$86t$1@news-reader2.wanadoo.fr>

Bonjour !
Peut-?tre en cr?ant un serveur COM, puis en encapsulant celui-ci avec un peu
de code, dans VBCCE (=Visual Basic Control Creation Edition, gratuit, chez
Microsoft, pour faire des Active-X).
C'?tait juste une id?e.


Hi !   (sorry for my poor english)
Perhaps with : to do an COM server, and use it, in little code, in VBCCE
(=Visual Basic Control Creation Edition  ; free, at Microsoft, for create
Active-X).
Just an idea.


 Url : http://msdn.microsoft.com/vbasic/downloads/tools/cce/default.aspx



@-salutations
-- 
Michel Claveau





From bgailer at alum.rpi.edu  Sat Jul 12 17:06:54 2003
From: bgailer at alum.rpi.edu (Bob Gailer)
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 15:06:54 -0600
Subject: Newbie with sort text file question
In-Reply-To: <86d2ca4.0307121146.3deb854a@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20030712141633.02a45568@66.28.54.253>

At 12:46 PM 7/12/2003 -0700, stuartc wrote:

>Hi:
>
>I'm not a total newbie, but I'm pretty green.  I need to sort a text
>file and then get a total for the number of occurances for a part of
>the string. Hopefully, this will explain it better:
>
>Here's the text file:
>
>banana_c \\yellow
>apple_a \\green
>orange_b \\yellow
>banana_d \\green
>orange_a \\orange
>apple_w \\yellow
>banana_e \\green
>orange_x \\yellow
>orange_y \\orange
>
>I would like two output files:
>
>1) Sorted like this, by the fruit name (the name before the dash)
>
>apple_a \\green
>apple_w \\yellow
>banana_c \\yellow
>banana_d \\green
>banana_e \\green
>orange_a \\orange
>orange_b \\yellow
>orange_x \\yellow
>orange_y \\orange
>
>2) Then summarized like this, ordered with the highest occurances
>first:
>
>orange occurs 4
>banana occurs 3
>apple occurs 2
>
>Total occurances is 9

I am developing a Python version of IBM's CMS Pipelines, which is designed 
for this kind of task. If you'd like to be an early recipient (read beta 
tester) of this product, let me know.

You would invoke this program:
Pipe("""
   < c:\input.txt
   | split /_/
   | nlocate -//-
   | sort count
   | spec 11-* 1 / occurs / 11 1-10 19
   | > c:\output1.txt
   | count
   | spec /Total occurrences is / 1 1-* 21
   | > c:\output2.txt""")

Explanation:
|               == separates each stage of the pipe
<               == read records from file
split           == split each record into 2 records at first _
nlocate == select records that do not contain //
pad 10  == ensure each record has 10 characters (or whatever the longest 
fruit name is)
sort count      == sort; group by unique key and prepend count
spec ...        == select cols 11-end of input, append literal, append cols 
1-10
 >               == write records to file
spec ...        == start with literal, append rest of record
 >               == write records to file

Or it can be run as a DOS Command:
C>python pipe.py spec.txt
where spec.txt contains the pipe specification

An enhancement to the IBM Pipeline specification for SPLIT will be to route 
the 2nd part of each record to the secondary output, effectively discarding 
it in this example, and eliminating the need for the NLOCATE stage.

This particular task can also be done fairly easily in Python. The appeal 
of Pipe is that you focus on the specification rather than writing Python 
code that is specific to the task. This shortens development time, and 
enhances readability and maintainability.

The Python version:

input = file('c:\input.txt')
fruits = {} # a dictionary to hold each fruit and its count
lines = input.readlines()
for line in lines:
   fruit = line.split('_', 1)[0]
   if fruit in fruits:
     fruits[fruit] += 1 # increment count
   else:
     fruits[fruit] = 1 # add to dictionary with count of 1
output1 = file('c:\output1.txt', 'w')
for key, value in fruits.items():
   output1.write("%s occurs %s\n" % (key, value))
output1.close()
output2 = file('c:\output2.txt', 'w')
output2.write("Total occurrences is %s\n" % len(lines))
output2.close()

Bob Gailer
bgailer at alum.rpi.edu
303 442 2625
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From ilya at cray.glas.net  Tue Jul 15 02:41:44 2003
From: ilya at cray.glas.net (Ilya Etingof)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 06:41:44 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: pySNMP: SNMPget example
References: <538fc8e.0307100356.4bf46554@posting.google.com> <betnfr$dqj$1@news.rol.ru> <538fc8e.0307140736.19eb777@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bf07n8$i1b$1@news.rol.ru>

I'd suggest you to refer to "high-level" API documentation at
http://pysnmp.sourceforge.net/docs/3.x/ for getting used to
basic operations on SNMP objects (such as apiGetPdu(), apiSetVarBind()).

Also, note, that pysnmp s/w (the third branch) has been closely aligned
with the APIs introduced by SNMP RFCs, so reading these RFCs may be
helpful too.

If you got more specific questions, please, let me know.

-ilya

WIWA <wim_wauters at skynet.be> wrote:
> Thanks Ilya,

> This has been very helpful. I'm able to get data out of my 'device
> under test'.

> I must be honnest and say that I understand the sample code, but could
> not write or produce it myself.

> How do you know e.g that
> req.apiGetPdu().apiSetVarBind([('1.3.6.1.2.1.1.1.0', None)]) can be
> written? I've read through the documentation and could not find
> anything similar. Of course, I could overlook it.

> Isn't there a tutorial out there that summarizes pysnmpv3 and gives
> examples of snmpget, snmpset, snmpwalk, etc...

> Thanks in advance for helping me out.

> Regards,

> Wim





> Ilya Etingof <ilya at cray.glas.net> wrote in message news:<betnfr$dqj$1 at news.rol.ru>...
>> > 2) when using: 'from pysnmp import role' (found on
>> > http://pysnmp.sourceforge
>> > .net/examples/2.x/snmpget.html), I get the message 'ImportError:
>> 
>> You seems to use pysnmp 2.x API which differs from the latest 3.x branch
>> (though, a compatibility layer exists in 3.x distribution). That's why
>> I suggest you looking at the 3.x docs and examples at:
>> 
>> http://pysnmp.sourceforge.net/docs/3.x/index.html
>> 
>> > 3) A general question: how can I get a list of what I can type after
>> > the 'from
>> > pysnmp import ...'
>> 
>> dir(<module>) may help but in this case I'd better see an example.
>> 
>> > 4) How can I use: 'from snmpget import snmpget'. It does not accept
>> > this.
>> 
>> There is no such module as snmpget in pysnmp.
>> 
>> > 5) Anyone has a simple example for the following application: I have a
>> > cable
>> > modem (which has an SNMP agent inside). I want to make a script where
>> > I can
>> > do SNMPgets (and later SNMPSet and SNMPwalk). 
>> 
>> Python 1.5.2 (#3, Aug 25 1999, 19:14:24)  [GCC 2.8.1] on sunos5
>> Copyright 1991-1995 Stichting Mathematisch Centrum, Amsterdam
>> >>> from pysnmp.proto import v1
>> >>> from pysnmp.proto.api import generic
>> >>> from pysnmp.mapping.udp import role
>> >>> req = v1.GetRequest()
>> >>> req.apiGetPdu().apiSetVarBind([('1.3.6.1.2.1.1.1.0', None)])
>> >>> tr = role.manager(('router-1.glas.net', 161))
>> >>> (answer, src) = tr.send_and_receive(req.encode())
>> >>> rsp = v1.GetResponse()
>> >>> rsp.decode(answer)
>> >>> vars = rsp.apiGetPdu().apiGetVarBind()
>> >>> print vars
>> [('.1.3.6.1.2.1.1.1.0', OctetString('Cisco Internetwork Operating System
>> Software\015\012IOS (tm) 5400 Software(C5400-JS-M), Version 12.2(11.8b), 
>> MAINTENANCE INTERIM SOFTWARE\015\012 Copyright (c) 1986-2002 by cisco 
>> Systems, Inc.\015\012 Compiled Tue 30-Jul-02 19:02 by pwade'))]
>> >>>
>>  
>> > 7) What is the difference between snmpget and getrequest in pysnmp? 
>> 
>> The only difference is the SNMP request object (GetRequest vs GetNextRequest)
>> you create when building SNMP message.
>> 
>> -ilya



From bignose-hates-spam at and-benfinney-does-too.id.au  Thu Jul 31 20:26:12 2003
From: bignose-hates-spam at and-benfinney-does-too.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: 1 Aug 2003 10:16:12 +0950
Subject: How do I get a reference to a KEY value of a dictionary?
References: <645db655.0307311636.71923378@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <slrnbije2k.ejq.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>

On 31 Jul 2003 17:36:41 -0700, Andy C wrote:
> Is this a waste of time?  Because I know in python I cannot be certain
> that the argument strings that are read from files are even garbage
> collected anyway.  I could certainly do the job with duplicate
> strings, but it would seem wasteful.  I am a C programmer, and old
> habits die hard.

Python dynamically binds names ("variables") to objects; many types,
including immutable strings, will not be duplicated if an identical one
is already stored.

The upshot is: store an identical string as many times as you like,
because PYthon will simply keep references to the one string object for
each duplicate.

-- 
 \          "Friendship is born at that moment when one person says to |
  `\    another, 'What!  You too?  I thought I was the only one!'"  -- |
_o__)                                                       C.S. Lewis |
Ben Finney <http://bignose.squidly.org/>



From guettler at thomas-guettler.de  Wed Jul 23 10:56:08 2003
From: guettler at thomas-guettler.de (Thomas =?ISO-8859-15?Q?G=FCttler?=)
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 16:56:08 +0200
Subject: The global statement
References: <pan.2003.07.23.08.06.17.301516@intnet.mu>
Message-ID: <bfm7m8$g9shl$1@ID-63505.news.uni-berlin.de>

David Hitillambeau wrote:

> Hi guys,
> As I am new to Python, i was wondering how to declare and use global
> variables. Suppose i have the following structure in the same module (same
> file):
> 
> def foo:
>   <instructions>
>   <instructions>
> def bar:
>   <instructions>
>   <instructions>
> 
> I want to enable some sharing between the two functions (foo and bar)
> using one global variable in such a way that each function can have read
> and write access over it.

Hi David,

global BAD
BAD=1

def foo():
    global BAD
    print BAD

def bar():
    global BAD
    print BAD

foo()
bar()

If foo and bar are in the same file, 
you don't need the "global".

 thomas








From mwh at python.net  Fri Jul 18 07:42:13 2003
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 11:42:13 GMT
Subject: dumping command-history in python interactive mode
References: <mailman.1058479887.12228.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7h3d6g81319.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

Christoph Becker-Freyseng <christoph at mmc-startup.com> writes:

> Hello,
> 
> is there a way to dump (and save) the command-history of the python
> interactive mode.

Yes.  Does

    http://www.python.org/doc/current/tut/node13.html

help?

Cheers,
M.

-- 
42. You can measure a programmer's perspective by noting his
    attitude on the continuing vitality of FORTRAN.
  -- Alan Perlis, http://www.cs.yale.edu/homes/perlis-alan/quotes.html



From andrew-pythonlist at puzzling.org  Tue Jul  1 04:25:46 2003
From: andrew-pythonlist at puzzling.org (Andrew Bennetts)
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 18:25:46 +1000
Subject: Partition names with Python
In-Reply-To: <bdqsjr$tjb$0@216.39.172.122>
References: <1056984252.3f004cbc6abd6@mail.uzem.itu.edu.tr> <mailman.1056988192.18351.python-list@python.org> <bdqsjr$tjb$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <20030701082545.GA18721@frobozz>

On Tue, Jul 01, 2003 at 02:45:15AM +0000, Bengt Richter wrote:
> 
> You might want to try something like
> 
>     import os
>     print os.popen('mount').read()

Or simply reading /etc/mtab or perhaps /proc/mounts (this one is
linux-specific, I think), rather than spawning a process.

-Andrew.





From chatralias at aol.com  Sun Jul 20 11:09:41 2003
From: chatralias at aol.com (Chatralias)
Date: 20 Jul 2003 15:09:41 GMT
Subject: Stopping a loop with user input. in curses
References: <pan.2003.07.19.21.26.34.776055@antispam.com>
Message-ID: <20030720110941.09823.00000321@mb-m11.aol.com>

Hi Alex, 

The only curses that I know are the ones that I use when I have a problem like
the one your facing here, but I think I can help.
Looks like your not stopping the first while loop when user  hits the 'q' key,
your just doing curses.beep() (I assume this makes a sound?).

Seams to me that you can put all of your active (for want of a better word)
code into one while loop so that it is all stoped when the "q" key it hit.
Or add a call to the first while loop from the second while loop so that it
stops. Because the first while loop is running ever since "theClock()" is
called and it never even see the 'q' get pressed. I mean that the code
execution never gets to the second while loop.

Try this... cus I can't with out curses installed.    

...clip..
#! /usr/bin/python

# Import curses module

import curses, time

def main():    
    finished = 0       # which is like saying "not finished" -see while loop 
    stdscr = curses.initscr()

    # Define global colour scheme
    curses.init_pair(1, curses.COLOR_WHITE, curses.COLOR_BLUE)

    # Get the screen size
    max_y, max_x = stdscr.getmaxyx()

    # Calculate the clock position relative to the screen size
    clock_x = max_x - 28 

    # Draw the clock
    clockWindow = curses.newwin(3, 26, 1, clock_x)
    clockWindow.bkgd(' ', curses.color_pair(1))
    clockWindow.box()
    clockWindow.refresh()

    
    while not finished:           # so long as finished is 0 this will loop
        # If 'q' is pressed, exit
        c = stdscr.getch()
        if c == ord('q'):
            curses.beep()
            finished = 1
            break

        t = time.asctime()
        clockWindow.addstr(1, 1, t)
        clockWindow.refresh()
        time.sleep(1)

if __name__ == '__main__':
    curses.wrapper(main)
....end clip...

As you can see I've made a lot of changes.
Let me see if I can explain.
First I put every thing into one function main. 
This assumes that you are not using the "theClock()" function somewhere else,
so if you are then don't do this. 
But, the point is, that if you look at the first variable I defined in the
"main()" function - "finished = 0" - then look at the while loop,- "while not
finished:"- when the user types 'q', the finished variable is set set to 1 and
every thing stops. 

Hope it works because I don't have a way to test it. 

Ray
Rastm2 at aol.com



From menion at asylumwear.com  Thu Jul 10 14:24:33 2003
From: menion at asylumwear.com (Joshua Schmidlkofer)
Date: 10 Jul 2003 11:24:33 -0700
Subject: Python vs PHP
In-Reply-To: <ouy8z67jer.fsf@andlx-anamika.cisco.com>
References: <mailman.1057574470.1750.python-list@python.org>
	 <kmolgv4mp12o71ocion7ra0m2s9fcrqjdk@4ax.com> <3F0D2827.4070501@mxm.dk>
	 <ou7k6q90f3.fsf@andlx-anamika.cisco.com> <3F0D3E8A.3080204@mxm.dk>
	 <ouy8z67jer.fsf@andlx-anamika.cisco.com>
Message-ID: <1057861472.12360.1.camel@bubbles.imr-net.com>

> You are probably right.  I only given a casual look at PHP, so
> I can't comment on the language, but I believe you :-). However, 
> PHP does come with a default (and only) web framework. This
> obviously makes it easy to get started than to experiment with
> Spyce or CherryPy or Cheetah or WebWare or any of the twenty
> different alternatives.
> 
> Looking at it from the perspective of a PHP developer who's
> looking into Python as an alternative. Python doesn't provides
> her an out of the box solution yet. Think about what the
> bewildering list of choices mean to her. This is not only issue
> for development but also for deployment.
> 


yeah, well right some nice looping code in PHP.  Like loop over 30 or 40
rows in a database, format and display it.   Then write it in python.  
vast difference.

OTOH I really don't use PHP anymore, and I don't know if they cleaned up
the more recent versions.


js






From paul_rudin at scientia.com  Tue Jul 22 04:48:04 2003
From: paul_rudin at scientia.com (Paul Rudin)
Date: 22 Jul 2003 09:48:04 +0100
Subject: good python book
References: <3f1cbbda_6@news.athenanews.com> <3f1cdce3.516224491@news.blueyonder.co.uk>
Message-ID: <ubrvnt0aj.fsf@scientia.com>

>>>>> "Alan" == Alan Gauld <alan.gauld at btinternet.com> writes:

    > On 22 Jul 2003 00:21:46 -0400, anonymous at coolgroups.com wrote:
    >> i'm looking to start learning python.  could someone recommend
    >> a good beginner's book for me?

    > Depends. Are you new to programming or just new to the Python
    > language?

    > If the latter you should just use the official tutor that comes
    > with Python and save your money for one of the more advanced
    > books and/or references.


And "Text processing in python", which would be good for experienced
programmers new to python, is available online at
<http://gnosis.cx/TPiP/>, although no doubt the author would be keen
for people to buy copies as well...



From mjackson at alumni.caltech.edu  Wed Jul 16 09:35:32 2003
From: mjackson at alumni.caltech.edu (Mark Jackson)
Date: 16 Jul 2003 13:35:32 GMT
Subject: Python Quiz
References: <mailman.1058359706.27031.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bf3kb4$2gh$1@news.wrc.xerox.com>

Michael Chermside <mcherm at mcherm.com> writes:
> richardc writes:
> > Im no expert but wouldnt you accept that Python has 'borrowed' FORTRAN's
> > fixed format syntax.  I can only think of Python and FORTRAN off the top of
> > my head which use whitespace as part of the syntax.
> 
> Definitely NOT. Without addressing the question of HOW Python came by the
> idea of using indentation to indicate block structure, it clearly couldn't
> have been from Fortran, because what Python does and what Fortran does
> are COMPLETELY different.
> 
> In Fortran, starting lines in particular columns is meaningful (as are other
> particular characters in particular leading columns). In Python, particular
> columns have NO meaning.

> Of course, I'm not suggesting that whitespace is *meaningless* in Python
> outside of indentation... Python is much like C (and many, many others) in
> that regard. After all, in C "y=x+ ++z" and "y=x++ +z" are quite
> different things. And in both Python and C "x=abc" is legal, but "x=a bc"
> is not.

Note that Fortran (at least historic Fortran - not sure about those
upstart 9x variants) is *not* among the "many, many others."  One can
write any of

	DO 10 I = something
	DO10I = something
	D O 1 0 I = something

and leave it to the compiler to figure out whether you're starting a
DO-loop or assigning a value to the variable DO10I.

[Signature from February 1993.]

-- 
Mark Jackson - http://www.alumni.caltech.edu/~mjackson
    Consistently separating words by spaces became a general custom
    about the tenth century A.D., and lasted until about 1957, when
    FORTRAN abandoned the practice.
				- Sun FORTRAN Reference Manual






From alanmk at hotmail.com  Fri Jul  4 11:37:45 2003
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 16:37:45 +0100
Subject: CGI script is in plain text
References: <3F04B0A4.32692.3596CD0@localhost> <mailman.1057299249.5855.python-list@python.org> <3F0590DB.8EE8D7CF@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <3F059F49.BCEACC4F@hotmail.com>

BMA TRADING wrote:

>>>> When  I start CGI script from a web browser, the result is
>>>> plain text( the copy of that script)
                 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

D'oh! Missed that vitally important piece of the sentence. Sorry for
having to follow-up my own post.

Obviously, you're script is not being executed.

The best way to debug a CGI installation is to place the "cgi.py"
script itself in your own CGI directory. "cgi.py" is designed to be
used for exactly this purpose, and will render a HTML page with
valuable information about your python installation and web server
environment.

More importantly, "cgi.py" is a script that is *known* to work.

Recommended steps:

A. Find the installed location of the python on your system
B. Copy "cgi.py" from the Lib directory of that installation
C. Put it into your cgi-bin, or equivalent, directory.
D. Make sure the path on the shebang line matches the path of A.
E. Check that the necessary execute bits are set.
F: Try this URL

http://yourdomain.com/cgi-bin/cgi.py

or equivalent.

HTH,

-- 
alan kennedy
-----------------------------------------------------
check http headers here: http://xhaus.com/headers
email alan:              http://xhaus.com/mailto/alan



From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Jul 14 15:23:57 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 15:23:57 -0400
Subject: Securing PyDoc and CGIHTTPserver
References: <2621b014.0307100535.449ad06f@posting.google.com> <3F0D7887.9D069ED0@engcorp.com> <xqx3chexplh.fsf@cola2.ca.boeing.com> <3F0E136A.6222F201@engcorp.com> <2621b014.0307140819.6ec99736@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3F13034D.19A4C65@engcorp.com>

Jon Schull wrote:
> 
> Well, for what its worth, I was thinking about "sniffing, spoofing, or
> main-in-the-middle attacks", and I was hoping for something I could
> stick into a program for unsophisticated users (e.g, those to whom one
> might give a notepad-like application, albeit with a local webserver
> interface).
> 
> Everyone who connects to the internet should have a firewall BUT must
> all who import httpserver implement or insist on a firewall for all
> their users?  Realistically?  I don't want to think so.

Yes, provided they are running code that is not considered inherently 
safe and provided they have sockets that are listening on all interfaces
as opposed to those which bind solely to localhost/127.0.0.1, then I
believe they *should* have a firewall.  Doing anything else is playing
with fire, and a bad habit to get into as well.

If this is merely a "local webserver interface", then it should bind
to localhost only.  If it is intended for local use on a network, and
therefore must bind to an external interface, then it's perfectly
safe, provided there is no connection to the Internet on that network,
or there is a firewall on any such connection.  End of story.  (Said
as black and white to encourage discussion, not necessarily because I 
truly believe that...)

-Peter



From vm_usenet at yahoo.com  Sat Jul  5 12:56:35 2003
From: vm_usenet at yahoo.com (vm_usenet)
Date: 5 Jul 2003 09:56:35 -0700
Subject: A possible bug in python threading/time module?
References: <mailman.1057347547.21819.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c09aca51.0307050856.2ed130f9@posting.google.com>

"Tim Peters" <tim.one at comcast.net> wrote in message news:<mailman.1057347547.21819.python-list at python.org>...
> [Tim]
> > Turns out that the Windows implementation of the Python C API function
> > PyThread_start_new_thread() contained several "laziness" errors
> >
> > ...
> >
> > I'm testing putative fixes on a Win98 box and don't see any hangs any
> > more. However, with more than about 3000 threads,
> >
> >     thread.error: can't start new thread
> >
> > gets raised because MS's _beginthread() fails (with errno == EAGAIN ==
> > "there are too many threads").
> 
> FYI, these fixes have been checked in and will be part of 2.3 final (and
> 2.2.4, if that's ever released).
> 
> The maximum number of threads you can have alive simultaneously on 32-bit
> Windows in an all-default Python build is actually about 2000.  This is
> because each thread gets a megabyte of stack space by default, and 2048
> threads would entirely exhaust the 31-bit user virtual address space just
> for thread stacks.  If you want to know more about that, Google on
> 
>     CreateThread default stack size
> 
> The top hit is to the current relevant MSDN docs.

I'm sorry that this comes immediately after my recent post, and that,
of all places, I am forced to put it here.

Right after I read Tim's recent post, I went to the python CVS and
noted that Tim refered to me as an 'anonymous coward'. Well Tim, I
just wanted to say that I appreciate you being part of the community,
too.

I hope to see more mature people working on the Python project than
Tim.

vm



From duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk  Wed Jul  2 04:44:41 2003
From: duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk (Duncan Booth)
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 08:44:41 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: function overloading
References: <pan.2003.07.01.19.42.06.202399@webone.com.au>
Message-ID: <Xns93AC619ABDB55duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

"Simon Burton" <simonb at webone.com.au> wrote in 
news:pan.2003.07.01.19.42.06.202399 at webone.com.au:

> class Im:
>   def __init__(self,x,xx=None):
>     if xx is not None:
>       w,h = x,xx
>       im = Image.new("I",(w,h))
>     elif type(x)==str:
>       filename = x
>       im = Image.open(filename)
>     else:
>       im = x
>     self.im = im

I would probably do it like this:

class Im(object):
    def __init__(self,im):
        self.im = im

    def newFromFile(cls, fileName):
        im = Image.open(filename)
        return cls(im)
    newFromFile = classmethod(newFromFile)

    def newBlank(cls, width=640, height=480):
        im = Image.new("I",(width,height))
        return cls(im)
    newBlank = classmethod(newBlank)

Overloading is a bad idea, explicit is better than implicit.

Using class methods as alternate constructors lets you have meaningful 
parameter names, defaults for each variant (if you want them), and 
docstrings (here left as an exercise for the reader).


-- 
Duncan Booth                                             duncan at rcp.co.uk
int month(char *p){return(124864/((p[0]+p[1]-p[2]&0x1f)+1)%12)["\5\x8\3"
"\6\7\xb\1\x9\xa\2\0\4"];} // Who said my code was obscure?



From unendliche at hanmail.net  Thu Jul 31 03:18:05 2003
From: unendliche at hanmail.net (Seo Sanghyeon)
Date: 31 Jul 2003 00:18:05 -0700
Subject: How to get Windows physical RAM using python?
References: <bg90lh$bkp$1@news3.bu.edu> <bg92o2$onr$1@news3.bu.edu> <bg9btk$5ia$06$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <45e6545c.0307302318.451b4ed6@posting.google.com>

Mark wrote:
> OK, How to check the amount of Windows physical RAM using python?

Martin v. Lowis wrote:
> You should call the GlobalMemoryStatus(Ex) function. To my knowledge,
> there is no Python wrapper for it, yet, so you would need to write one.

So let's write one in Python in a minute!

---- winmem.py
from ctypes import *
from ctypes.wintypes import *

class MEMORYSTATUS(Structure):
    _fields_ = [
        ('dwLength', DWORD),
        ('dwMemoryLoad', DWORD),
        ('dwTotalPhys', DWORD),
        ('dwAvailPhys', DWORD),
        ('dwTotalPageFile', DWORD),
        ('dwAvailPageFile', DWORD),
        ('dwTotalVirtual', DWORD),
        ('dwAvailVirtual', DWORD),
    ]

def winmem():
    x = MEMORYSTATUS()
    windll.kernel32.GlobalMemoryStatus(byref(x))
    return x

---- in your code
>>> from winmem import winmem
>>> m = winmem()
>>> print '%d MB physical RAM left.' % (m.dwAvailPhys/1024**2)
90 MB physical RAM left.
>>> 


Hail to ctypes!

If you have never heard of ctypes, visit
http://starship.python.net/crew/theller/ctypes/ and try it. You
will love it.

Seo Sanghyeon



From danbmil99 at yahoo.com  Wed Jul 23 05:12:28 2003
From: danbmil99 at yahoo.com (dan)
Date: 23 Jul 2003 02:12:28 -0700
Subject: python assignment
References: <mailman.1058928524.20417.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <fbf8d8f2.0307230112.106340ac@posting.google.com>

"Tim Peters" <tim.one at comcast.net> wrote in message news:<mailman.1058928524.20417.python-list at python.org>...
>...  It would be very
> unusual (because bad design) for the __iadd__ method of a mutable type to
> return a pre-existing object, though.

hmm...
>>> a = [1, 2]
>>> id(a)
8316112
>>> a += [3]
>>> id(a)
8316112

see my prev. post on this.  I realize my original assumptions were off
base, but frankly the documentation does a poor job (really no job) of
describing the state of affairs wrt how Python handles objects, and
how this affects what happens when you assign things.  A section on
names and binding principles would be much appreciated.

dbm



From kylotan at hotmail.com  Tue Jul  8 06:33:53 2003
From: kylotan at hotmail.com (Kylotan)
Date: 8 Jul 2003 03:33:53 -0700
Subject: urllib2 for HTTPS/SSL
Message-ID: <153fa67.0307080233.2f7abdf5@posting.google.com>

The documentation on this module doesn't seem very clear to me...
there's an 'HTTPSHandler' object documented, but it just lists the
"https_open" function without giving an example of its use. And the
urllib2 examples page shows a totally different way to create an HTTPS
connection (just by making a Request object). There is a lot of talk
about deriving new classes, but is that necessary if I just want to
make HTTPS GET requests?

I have no idea how (or if) to use the 'HTTPSHandler' object, or what
the correct way for me to request an SSL connection is. Does anybody
have any hints? And additionally, is there any chance of the official
documentation on this useful-looking module being improved?

K.



From zephyr01 at alltel.net  Thu Jul 31 11:44:18 2003
From: zephyr01 at alltel.net (Hans Nowak)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 11:44:18 -0400
Subject: SQL2000 database vs python
In-Reply-To: <55939F05720D954E9602518B77F6127F02F46920@FTWMLVEM01.e2k.ad.ge.com>
References: <55939F05720D954E9602518B77F6127F02F46920@FTWMLVEM01.e2k.ad.ge.com>
Message-ID: <3F293952.8020307@alltel.net>

Raaijmakers, Vincent (IndSys, GE Interlogix) wrote:
> Ok I was too happy.
> 
> mssqldb doesn't help me to connect my python app on a linux OS to a sql2000 (windows os) database.
> I can't even compile the package, I guess it is missing sybase stuff (sybdb.h and sybfront.h), 
> which is correct because I don't have that database.
> Also, mssqldb supports ms sql server 7.0, my hope is that that won't be a problem in using ms sql 2000.
> 
> Pfew, there goes my hope.

If anything else fails, you can use SQLXML.  I don't have a link handy, but it 
should be easy to find on Google.  What you do is the following:

1. Install SQLXML on Windows machine (if it isn't there already)
2. From Linux, talk to database using XML "updategrams" over HTTP.

For example, you can insert a record like this:

<ROOT xmlns:updg="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:xml-updategram">
  <updg:sync >
   <updg:before>
   </updg:before>
   <updg:after>
    <Orders updg:at-identity="x" CustomerID="ALFKI" OrderDate="07/18/00" />
       <Order_x0020_Details OrderID="x"
             ProductID="11"
             UnitPrice="$1.0"
             Quantity="1"
             Discount="0.0" />
     </updg:after>
   </updg:sync>
</ROOT>

Not pretty, but it works.  You can also issue SQL statements using an URL.

Caveats: Creating updategrams is not extremely easy, and you'll probably want 
to write some custom Python routines to execute SQL, create an updategram, send 
it, interpret data you get back (this is XML as well), etc.

HTH,





From gmuller at worldonline.nl  Mon Jul 21 13:37:51 2003
From: gmuller at worldonline.nl (GerritM)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 19:37:51 +0200
Subject: Can't Close Word Instance without Save Changes Dlg Box
References: <mailman.1058804373.21700.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bfh8d3$3h$1@reader1.tiscali.nl>

<PoulsenL at capanalysis.com> schreef in bericht
news:mailman.1058804373.21700.python-list at python.org...
> I am using COM to manipulate word attachments to emails.  Once I use them
I
> am not concerned with saving the results.  I use the following line:
>
> myWord.ActiveDocument.Close(wc.wdDoNotSaveChanges)
>
> This closes the document fine but only after I click no on the resulting
> "Save Changes" dialog box.  Am I missing something really simple?  I can
> send preceding lines if needed.
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Loren Poulsen
>
I have never tried this in Word. However I had the same kind of problem in
Visio, which could be solved by setting the document status to saved,
something like:
myWord.ActiveDocument.saved = 1

regards Gerrit
--
www.extra.research.philips.com/natlab/sysarch/






From Robert at AbilitySys.com  Tue Jul 15 18:03:35 2003
From: Robert at AbilitySys.com (Robert at AbilitySys.com)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 15:03:35 -0700
Subject: Stop Python from exiting upon error in Windows
References: <vh6jmv2f767h8b@corp.supernews.com> <n2o6hvcahk7dlmn9t26tvis8umnfg1tdeo@4ax.com> <3F136BEA.5B56562@engcorp.com> <vh6v443q2fjab3@corp.supernews.com> <vh8agkdkcntn20@corp.supernews.com> <3F142B51.94C898BC@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <vh8uhni7490rfc@corp.supernews.com>

The trouble there is that sys.argv[0] is consistently the file name of the
script running, whether I do it with python.exe or via IDLE/Run Script. (I
actually use it to open the script within itself and copy itself out to an
audit log for a record of what code created the script's results)

You're right, it's probably not worth it since it just adds a "press enter"
to the output when I run my script in IDLE (where I don't actually need the
pause). I just thought the cognoscenti out here might have run across a
nifty trick for determining if it was python.exe/PythonWin/whatever since I
couldn't find such a thing in the books or manuals I have...

- Robert

"Peter Hansen" <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message
news:3F142B51.94C898BC at engcorp.com...
> Robert at AbilitySys.com wrote:
> >
> > Ok, I figured out the IDLE block indent (duh - RTFMenu), and now it
works
> > great in DOS. Again, thanks to all who helped.
> >
> > However, I'd still like to know how to determine what environment I'm
> > running under inside my code. Any suggestions?
>
> I doubt if there's any particular way to do it consistently.  In
> principle one could write a cute module which would be able to check
> the "signature" of the environment to figure it all out.  Check if
> certain modules are in __builtins__ to see if you are running inside
> an application that uses Python for scripting, check for sys.argv[0]
> to learn whether you were launched in a way that suggests running as
> a script with python.exe, etc.
>
> It's probably not a great idea to write anything which depends on this
> however, and it sounds like more time than it's worth.
>
> -Peter





From CousinStanley at hotmail.com  Wed Jul 30 03:36:34 2003
From: CousinStanley at hotmail.com (Cousin Stanley)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 00:36:34 -0700
Subject: graph libraries
References: <bg7n2n$u9b$1@slb9.atl.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <bg7scl$lct6m$1@ID-130333.news.uni-berlin.de>

Andrew ....

    The Java classes provided with the Chemistry Development Kit
    if interfaced with a bit of Jython might be useful ...

        http://cdk.sourceforge.net/

-- 
Cousin Stanley
Human Being
Phoenix, Arizona





From brent.turner at clarisay.com  Tue Jul 29 12:28:20 2003
From: brent.turner at clarisay.com (Brent Turner)
Date: 29 Jul 2003 09:28:20 -0700
Subject: gridcontrols and list of lists
Message-ID: <2f6cf792.0307290828.38d663b4@posting.google.com>

It seems that in my code I am often using a grid concept (rectangular
list of lists).  To access columns of data I am transposing the "grid"
and then indexing/deleting/adding rows(which used to be columns) and
then transposing the results back.  It seems to me that with the
abundance of grid controls in applications (and the fact that
databases return recordsets/datasets) that many people are doing the
same or similar sort of thing.  I am wondering if there is a gridData
that someone has designed which is fast and has the functionality of a
grid control.  I want the speed and ease of use of a grid control, but
non-gui.  Is there anything that anyone has already designed that
attempts to do some of these things? If not, then maybe this is
something I should attempt...

Also, I know Numeric can create arrays of PyObjects, but I am looking
for
a data_structure where rows or columns can be searched/deleted/added
easily.

Brent



From gh at ghaering.de  Thu Jul 24 04:18:53 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 10:18:53 +0200
Subject: How to link a C extension module on Mac OS X?
In-Reply-To: <bfnu36$gptcg$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>
References: <ef08387c.0307230528.441883e1@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.1058972255.22070.python-list@python.org>
	<bfnu36$gptcg$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <3F1F966D.2010305@ghaering.de>

Greg Ewing (using news.cis.dfn.de) wrote:
> Gerhard H?ring wrote:
> 
>> Two words: Use distutils.
> 
> And it turns out that, rather unintuitively, the way distutils
> does it is that it *doesn't* try to create a dynamic library,
> just an ordinary object file named with a .so suffix...

Does that mean that distutils doesn't work on OS X?

-- Gerhard




From alanmk at hotmail.com  Thu Jul  3 08:23:33 2003
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 13:23:33 +0100
Subject: XML Validation with Python
References: <cb035744.0307020901.472c3573@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3F042045.C5CB0248@hotmail.com>

Will Stuyvesant wrote:

> Can you give a commandline example how to do XML Validation (checking
> against a DTD) with Python?  Not with 4Suite or other 3rd party
> libraries, just the Python standard distribution.  

You can't do it. The base distribution doesn't include a validating
XML parser.

The only pure python validating parser is Lars Garshol's "xmlproc",
which is a part of pyxml (a "third-party" optional extension). You can
read the documentation for xmlproc here

http://www.garshol.priv.no/download/software/xmlproc/

and the bit about validating on the command line is here

http://www.garshol.priv.no/download/software/xmlproc/cmdline.html

Is there any reason why it has to be in the base distribution?

Assuming that you have a good reason, maybe you can tell us what
platform you're running on? There might be a platform specific
parser/validator that you can call from python.

HTH,

-- 
alan kennedy
-----------------------------------------------------
check http headers here: http://xhaus.com/headers
email alan:              http://xhaus.com/mailto/alan



From guettler at thomas-guettler.de  Tue Jul 15 08:00:45 2003
From: guettler at thomas-guettler.de (Thomas =?ISO-8859-15?Q?G=FCttler?=)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 14:00:45 +0200
Subject: Open MS Excel Spreadsheet with Python
References: <mailman.1058229111.12248.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bf0qdd$9tdge$1@ID-63505.news.uni-berlin.de>

Allison Bailey wrote:

> Hi Folks,
> 
> I'm a brand new Python programmer, so please point me in the right
> direction if this is not the best forum for this question....
> 
> I would like to open an existing MS Excel spreadsheet and extract
> information from specific worksheets and cells.

Hi!

You can save the spreadsheet in XML format. This can be parsed and
modified. This has the advantage that it works on all plattforms.

I wrote a small receipe in the python cookbook some months ago.

 thomas





From martin at v.loewis.de  Mon Jul 21 01:32:20 2003
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-15?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 21 Jul 2003 07:32:20 +0200
Subject: xml processing and sys.setdefaultencoding (more info)
References: <bfe4it$8ra$02$1@news.t-online.com> <bff4ad$fl9$05$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <m3r84kzbq3.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

"christof hoeke" <csad7 at yahoo.com> writes:

> the original problem with the app was that the Pyana transformation
> complained about the string "xml" when it came over as unicode. so i used
> str(xml) but that gave the usual "ordinal not in range" error when the xslt
> contained e.g. german umlauts. 

At that point, you should have done

xml = xml.encode("utf-8")

where you might need to make sure that the string "utf-8" matches the
encoding= given in the xml header.

> i did not tried that before...  setting the default encoding to
> utf-8 fixed that. the reason is not entirely clear to me yet though.

For any Unicode object X, str(X) is equivalent to
X.encode(sys.getdefaultencoding()). Since that defaults to "ascii",
str(X) is normally the same as X.encode("ascii"), which fails if you
have non-ASCII in your string.

> it is my first "bigger" python project, so the code is not the best
> i guess and the version which does not work is still online. i need
> to put on the version with the changed default encoding.

I advise that you get rid of the need to set the default
encoding. Many users will have set this to a value different from
"utf-8".

Regards,
Martin




From pyth at devel.trillke.net  Sun Jul  6 17:58:48 2003
From: pyth at devel.trillke.net (holger krekel)
Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2003 23:58:48 +0200
Subject: absolute beginners question about API documentation
In-Reply-To: <be9nn3$2k0j3$1@ID-47851.news.dfncis.de>; from jocsch@phreaker.net on Sun, Jul 06, 2003 at 07:44:13PM +0200
References: <be9nn3$2k0j3$1@ID-47851.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <20030706235848.G6906@prim.han.de>

Markus Joschko wrote:
> Hi all,
> I' new to python programming but a longtime java programmer. 
> Is there an API documentation like the javadoc API from java?

<shameless plug>

Python has this nice interactive command line (others already
showed how to get to "method names" and such). 

As you seem to be using linux you may want to try the "rlcompleter2.py"
module which provides bash-like <tab> completion on arbitrary python 
objects ...

    http://codespeak.net/rlcompleter2 

... this would give you ...

>>> {}.<tab>
*                      <bui>get*(1-2)         <bui>iteritems*()
<bui>keys*()           <bui>update*(1)        <bui>clear*()          
<bui>has_key*(1)       <bui>iterkeys*()       <bui>popitem*()        
<bui>values*()         <bui>copy*()           <bui>items*()          
<bui>itervalues*()     <bui>setdefault*(1-2)

and hitting it another time

>>> {}.<tab>
<bui>clear*()      -> None.  Remove all items from D.
<bui>copy*()       -> a shallow copy of D
<bui>get*(1-2)     -> D[k] if D.has_key(k), else d.  d defaults to None.
<bui>has_key*(1)   -> 1 if D has a key k, else 0
<bui>items*()      -> list of D's (key, value) pairs, as 2-tuples
<bui>iteritems*()  -> an iterator over the (key, value) items of D
<bui>iterkeys*()   -> an iterator over the keys of D
<bui>itervalues*() -> an iterator over the values of D
<bui>keys*()       -> list of D's keys
<bui>popitem*()    -> (k, v), remove and return some (key, value) pair
as a. 2-tuple; but raise KeyError if D is empty
<bui>setdefault*(1-2) -> D.get(k,d), also set D[k]=d if not D.has_key(k)
<bui>update*(1)    -> None.  Update D from E: for k in E.keys(): D[k] =
E[k]
<bui>values*()     -> list of D's values

and going to a specific function

>>> {}.get(<tab>
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
D.get(k[,d]) -> D[k] if D.has_key(k), else d.  d defaults to None.

and so on.

</shameless plug>

cheers,

    holger




From FBatista at uniFON.com.ar  Fri Jul  4 17:49:25 2003
From: FBatista at uniFON.com.ar (Batista, Facundo)
Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 18:49:25 -0300 
Subject: print attitude
Message-ID: <A128D751272CD411BC9200508BC2194D018856FA@escpl.tcp.com.ar>

One detail I found, don't now if it's ok:

Python 2.1.1 (#4, Mar  8 2002, 12:32:24)
[GCC 2.95.3 20010315 (release)] on sunos5

>>> a = '?'
>>> a
'\xf1'
>>> print a
?
>>> l = ['?']
>>> l
['\xf1']
>>> print l
['\xf1']
>>>

Is this OK?

Why this different behaviour?

Thank you!

.	Facundo





From sismex01 at hebmex.com  Thu Jul 31 13:21:36 2003
From: sismex01 at hebmex.com (sismex01 at hebmex.com)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 12:21:36 -0500
Subject: RELEASED Python 2.3 (final)
Message-ID: <F7DB8D13DB61D511B6FF00B0D0F06233059B2A2F@mail.hebmex.com>

> From: Brian Quinlan [mailto:brian at sweetapp.com] 
> Sent: Jueves, 31 de Julio de 2003 12:17 p.m.
> 
> > Seems nice enough.  You'll only be able to assign to a 
> > mutable object anyway; 
> 
> This statement doesn't make any sense. Assignment to None is a name
> binding operating is mutability is not a relevant issue.
> 
> > None is not mutable, and will soon be a keyword.  
> 
> None becoming a keyword is a valid reason.
> 
> Cheers,
> Brian
>

Nope; it has to do with making Python faster: if constants
such as None, True, False are treated as true constants,
then certain optimizations can be enabled with help make
it all a bit quicker.

So, in order to do so, assignment to builtins is being
disallowed; or, only to such singleton instances...
I'm not too sure anymore.

Anyway, there's a thread in comp.lang.dev about all
this.

HTH

-gustavo



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la transmision, favor de comunicarse con el remitente. Gracias.




From sdfrost at ucsd.edu  Wed Jul 23 17:55:23 2003
From: sdfrost at ucsd.edu (Simon Frost)
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 14:55:23 -0700
Subject: PyIStream and COM question for WinGraphViz
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20030723145029.028039f0@popmail.ucsd.edu>

Dear Python List,

I'd like to write a COM interface to WinGraphViz 
(http://home.so-net.net.tw/oodtsen/wingraphviz/). I would like to dump my 
image to a PyIStream, but I can't find any documentation on how to do this.

Here's the syntax for the COM interface

ProgramID: WinGraphviz.BinaryImage
  Dump(IStream stream) as Boolean

I would like to do something like
istream=PyIStream(...)
myBinaryImage.Dump(istream)

and then go on to display the image.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Best
Simon


Simon D.W. Frost, M.A., D.Phil.
Department of Pathology
University of California, San Diego
Antiviral Research Center
150 W. Washington St., Suite 100
San Diego, CA 92103
USA

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From harry.g.george at boeing.com  Mon Jul 21 17:32:59 2003
From: harry.g.george at boeing.com (Harry George)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 21:32:59 GMT
Subject: Voting Project Needs Python People
References: <LDVSa.14955$Mc.1126731@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <xqxwuebfyym.fsf@cola2.ca.boeing.com> <bfhhgq$5lu$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <xqx7k6b36r8.fsf@cola2.ca.boeing.com>

"Andrew Dalke" <adalke at mindspring.com> writes:

> Harry George:
> > Is the intent to do opensource all the way to commodity chips?  Else a
> > proprietary BIOS could be the weak link.
> 
> In which way?  There resulting code should be runnable on a wide number
> of platforms, so there isn't a single source issue, and the actual vote is
> on voter verifiable paper, so corruption of the BIOS won't be able to
> affect anything other than the number of "something's wrong - this isn't
> what I voted for" complaints.
> 
> Perhaps you were thinking of a pure electronic version?
> 

This is getting a bit off-topic, but is relevant to
Python-as-open-source-scripting-tool.

Yes, paper audit trail is essential.  But I'm pretty sure that
conflicts between paper and electronic will result in court cases,
with significant chunks of ballots in limbo or thrown out on one
pretext or another.  By choosing which precincts are thrown in limbo,
you can impact the overall results.

Here is a possible scenario:

1. Software chooses 1% of votes to change (big enough to have an
   effect, small enough to maybe go unnoticed).

2. Paper is correct.  Visual monitor is correct.  Electronic storage
   is changed.  Voter leaves happy.

3. Results are posted based on electronic storage.

4. Only if enough people suspect trouble do we go to the paper trail.
   At 1%, that may not happen.  Yet a 2% swing is pretty big in many
   settings.




>                     Andrew
>                     dalke at dalkescientific.com
> 
> 

-- 
harry.g.george at boeing.com
6-6M31 Knowledge Management
Phone: (425) 294-8757



From bgailer at alum.rpi.edu  Tue Jul 22 14:02:45 2003
From: bgailer at alum.rpi.edu (Bob Gailer)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 12:02:45 -0600
Subject: SAX questions...
In-Reply-To: <200307221022.09513.tjg@craigelachie.org>
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20030722115406.04110cd0@66.28.54.253>

At 10:22 AM 7/22/2003 -0700, Timothy Grant wrote:

>I've worked with DOM before, but never SAX, I have a script that seems to 
>work
>quite well, but every time I look at it I think it's amazingly unweildly and
>that I must be doing something wrong.
>
>def startElement(self, name, attr):
>     if name == "foo":
>         do_foo_stuff()
>     elif name == "bar":
>         do_bar_stuff()
>     elif name == "baz":
>         do_baz_stuff()
>
>There's similar code in endElement() and characters() and of course, the more
>tags that need processing the more unweildly each method becomes.
>
>I could create a dictionary and dispatch to the correct method based on a
>dictionary key. But it seems to me there must be a better way.

Please note that this is not a SAX-specific question. I suggest a subject 
of How To Manage Function Dispatching.

Your question comes down to what's the "best" way to dispatch a piece of 
logic based on some condition. You have already given 2 good alternatives: 
your example, and using a dictionary. The other approach I sometimes use is 
defining a class for each condition and then instantiating the class as needed.

Class foo:
   def __init__(self):
     # do foo stuff

etc for each case, then

try: x = eval(name+'()')
except: raise "Unknown name " + name

Which, of course, is just a dictionary lookup in disguise.

Bob Gailer
bgailer at alum.rpi.edu
303 442 2625
-------------- next part --------------

---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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From Adrien.DiMascio at logilab.fr  Mon Jul  7 03:10:07 2003
From: Adrien.DiMascio at logilab.fr (Adrien Di Mascio)
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 09:10:07 +0200
Subject: Newbie question: Strange TypeError
In-Reply-To: <pan.2003.07.07.04.09.36.145173@yahoo.com>
References: <pan.2003.07.07.04.09.36.145173@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20030707071007.GA420@logilab.fr>

On Mon, Jul 07, 2003 at 04:04:32AM +0000, Tim Isakson wrote:
> Howdy,
Hi,
> 
> 
>     def HandleInput(self, input):
>         if self.results.GetValue() == "0":
>             return input
>         elif newVal == True:
>             return input
>         else:
>             tmpVal = self.results.GetValue() + input
>             return tmpVal
> 
>     def OnButton1(self,e):
>         tmpVal = self.HandleInput(self, "1")
>         self.results.SetValue(tmpVal)
> The call to HandleInput is made, but I get the following error:
> 
> Calling HandleInput(self, '1')
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "pycalc.py", line 115, in OnButton1
>     tmpVal = self.HandleInput(self, "1")
> TypeError: HandleInput() takes exactly 2 arguments (3 given)
> So far as I can tell, the offending call *IS* calling HandleInput with 2
> arguments, but the interpreter obviously thinks different, and I'm at a
> loss as to why that might be.
Well, your script *IS* calling HanlderInput with 3 arguments since
there is the 'hidden' object instance as first argument. You must not
explicitly pass the 'self' argument, Python will do it for you, so
just call : 

         tmpVal = self.HandleInput("1")


Hope this helps.

Cheers,

-- 
Adrien Di Mascio
LOGILAB, Paris (France).
http://www.logilab.com   http://www.logilab.fr   http://www.logilab.org





From bokr at oz.net  Wed Jul 30 16:06:03 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 30 Jul 2003 20:06:03 GMT
Subject: Dict to "flat" list of (key,value)
References: <pan.2003.07.30.19.26.18.41642@removethis.nerim.net>
Message-ID: <bg98fb$fcl$0@216.39.172.122>

On Wed, 30 Jul 2003 21:26:19 +0200, Nicolas Girard <Nicolas.nospam.Girard at removethis.nerim.net> wrote:

>Hi,
>
>Forgive me if the answer is trivial, but could you tell me how to achieve
>the following:
>
>{k1:[v1,v2],k2:v3,...} --> [[k1,v1],[k1,v2],[k2,v3],...]
>
>The subtle point (at least to me) is to "flatten" values that are lists.
>
Assuming v3 and others like it can't be references to lists
(or how could you tell it from the format of k1's list?):

(I quoted your names to avoid haing to define them separately)

 >>> d = {'k1':['v1','v2'],'k2':'v3'}
 >>> flat = []
 >>> for k,v in d.items():
 ...     if isinstance(v,list):
 ...         for v2 in v:
 ...             flat.append([k,v2])
 ...     else:
 ...         flat.append([k,v])
 ...
 >>> flat
 [['k2', 'v3'], ['k1', 'v1'], ['k1', 'v2']]

Or would you prefer an inscrutable one-liner ;-)

Note that there is no guarantee of any particular order in d.items(),
though you could sort them:

 >>> d = {'k1':['v1','v2'],'k2':'v3'}
 >>> flat = []
 >>> items = d.items()
 >>> items.sort() # on keys
 >>> for k,v in items:
 ...     if isinstance(v,list):
             # Note that v is a list here, but does have pre-existing order you might want to keep.
             # If you wanted to guarantee sorted output of the v2's, you could
             # do v.sort() here, though you might surprise others holding references
             # to those lists, since they would see the sorting. To avoid that, make a copy first, e.g.,
             # v = v[:]; v.sort()  #(untested, but I think it should work ;-)

 ...         for v2 in v:
 ...             flat.append([k,v2])
 ...     else:
 ...         flat.append([k,v])
 ...
 >>> flat
 [['k1', 'v1'], ['k1', 'v2'], ['k2', 'v3']]

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From mcherm at mcherm.com  Wed Jul  2 18:55:29 2003
From: mcherm at mcherm.com (Michael Chermside)
Date: Wed,  2 Jul 2003 15:55:29 -0700
Subject: what is self?
Message-ID: <1057186529.3f0362e1e348d@mcherm.com>

paul h writes:
   [...]
> looking into the code, i see a lot of references to "self" ie
> self.window = ...
   [...]

In Python, "self" is nothing special at all... it's just a normal
variable like "x" or "y" or "myObject". If you look at the top of
the method declaration where you saw self used, you'll see that
"self" is the name of the first argument.

What's different now is that you're starting to use objects. When
you use objects in Python, they have functions that belong to the
objects themselves (called "methods"). In Python, the first
argument to any method (a function defined within a class) will
always be the particular object on which the method is being
called. Since that first argument always means "the object this
method is called on" Python programmers nearly always use the
same name for it... and "self" happens to be the conventional name.

Everything would work just fine if you changed "self" to "abc" in
the parameter list and also within the body of the method. 
Everything, that is, except for the fact that people reading your
code would find it a bit odd and confusing.

-- Michael Chermside






From e_fax_t at msn.ZAPME.com  Sun Jul 13 05:55:17 2003
From: e_fax_t at msn.ZAPME.com (Justin)
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 11:55:17 +0200
Subject: HTML Help (CHM) file for Python 2.2.3
References: <mailman.1058020278.10237.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3f112ca1$0$6533$afc38c87@sisyphus.news.be.easynet.net>

> Could you send me a download URL of a compiled
> HTML Help (CHM) file for Python 2.2.3 ?

Try the PYTHLP.PY script available at

http://www.orgmf.com.ar/condor/pytstuff.html

I just tried it on 2.3b2, and it seems to work
even though not explicitly supported.






From tdelaney at avaya.com  Sun Jul  6 22:44:06 2003
From: tdelaney at avaya.com (Delaney, Timothy C (Timothy))
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 12:44:06 +1000
Subject: python scripting game The Temple Of Elemental Evil update
Message-ID: <338366A6D2E2CA4C9DAEAE652E12A1DE844723@au3010avexu1.global.avaya.com>

> From: O'Neal Computer Programmer [mailto:cneal92 at lycos.com]
> 
> Anyway, this game also has a forum at
> http://ina-community.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=286 and
> also one that you have to pay for at
> http://vnboards.ign.com/board.asp?brd=22335 with more info about the
> game.

Actually, you don't have to pay to use the RPG Vault boards (vnboard), though you do if you want extra features.

I've talked to Guido privately about this, and intend to ask Tim Cain (Project Lead) or Steve Moret (Lead Programmer) if they would be willing to write a piece about the use of Python in ToEE.

BTW, I'm a long-time inhabitant of the Arcanum Inn and Greyhawk Inn at the RPG Vault boards (magao). Most of the conversation at the Arcanum Inn is off-topic, much of it at the Greyhawk Inn also is (but less so, since the game is in development). Oh - and I have a grave in Arcanum :)

Tim Delaney




From gml4410 at ggr.co.uk  Fri Jul  4 10:21:50 2003
From: gml4410 at ggr.co.uk (Lack Mr G M)
Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 10:21:50 BST
Subject: Building Python - how to set include and lib paths?
References: <mailman.1057262346.30857.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <2003Jul4.102150@ukwit01>

In article <mailman.1057262346.30857.python-list at python.org>, Curly Joe <woooee at yahoo.com> writes:
|> Lack Mr G M wrote (snipped):
|> I'm trying to build (compile and link) Python2.2.3,
|> However, I need to indicate where it can find various
|> library and header files for other extensions which I
|> have already built (things like ssl etc.).
|> 
|> There are two simple ways that I know of:
|> 1 - add it to, and export the PYTHONPATH variable -
|> mine is in ~/.bash_profile on a Gentoo Linux box. 
|> Your shell and/or profile file name may be different.
|> 2 - probably not what you want, but
|> .../python/site_python should be in your PYTHONPATH
|> and so you could place you programs there.

   No - that's not the problem.  I know I can set that up for pyhton
modules at run time.  My problem occurs when I am *building* python
itself.  There seem to be no way that I can tell it where to look for
header files and libraries for other packages/utilities (eg: SSL) that I
have previously installed or how to add these to compilation and linking
options..  It hard-wires /usr/local/{include,lib} for these. 


-- 
--------- Gordon Lack --------------- gml4410 at ggr.co.uk  ------------
This message *may* reflect my personal opinion.  It is *not* intended
to reflect those of my employer, or anyone else.



From python at grimes.org.uk  Tue Jul  1 11:33:28 2003
From: python at grimes.org.uk (Paul Grimes)
Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 16:33:28 +0100
Subject: PyQT and Mandrake 9.1
References: <bdrsbq$2a8d$1@biggoron.nerim.net> <bdrug5$vdeid$1@ID-174077.news.dfncis.de> <bds25p$nql$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk> <bds7ig$vqb2g$1@ID-174077.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <bds9l0$1bj$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk>

MK wrote:

> "Paul Grimes" <python at grimes.org.uk> wrote
> 
>> > Be careful. QT is controlled by one company,
>>
>> Sort of true
> 
> I'd say it's true. What do you mean by "sort of"?
> No matter what anybody says, Qt is controlled by
> Trolltech, full stop.
> 
The free version is GPLed, so if you don't like the way it's going, you can
always fork it.  Trolltech only control the _official_ free version (i.e.
the one on their website) and the commercial version.  If Trolltech should
go under, or otherwise stop distributing the GPL version, then the official
free version will be BSD licenced (as I understand it, although I find that
slightly weird).

> >> > and it costs money.
>>
>> Not true, unless you want to distribute a closed source program
> 
> So this is "sort of true", right?

I suppose so.  But the free version is free, and always will be.  It only
costs money if you don't like the license terms of the free version.

Paul



From tomas at fancy.org  Mon Jul  7 12:52:08 2003
From: tomas at fancy.org (Tom Plunket)
Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 09:52:08 -0700
Subject: looking for UDP package, network programming guidance
Message-ID: <uj8jgvsrbop1lhem5t743gv9pvuh7ig6l1@4ax.com>

Hey all-

A friend of mine has built this interesting (to me) bit of
hardware that's intended to communicate with a PC over ethernet.
The hardware has an OS written in C, and has some PC-side testing
software written in Delphi, all of which I have access to.  The
hardware communicates with the PC via UDP.

I've been working on porting the PC "test" software to Python so
that 1) I understand the code, 2) don't need to go buy Delphi to
help this guy out, and 3) learn enough about network programming
to write the actual application interface software for off-the-
shelf software to use this hardware.  I spent a bunch of hours
one night learning everything I needed to about wxPython to get a
not-so-fancy but needs-a-lot-of-different-UI-elements test app UI
running, but now the stumbling block comes up that Python doesn't
seem to have any UDP handling built into its distribution.

Searching the web turned up Twisted, although it seems like it
might be a bit bigger than I would have hoped (in terms of,
"there's a huge package here to figure out"), but as far as I can
tell it's the only UDP solution out there.  Is this the case?

Additionally, the networking protocol is a fixed format packed
bytes sort of thing; is it easy enough in Python (with Twisted)
to read bytes off of the stream and then decide what to do with
them?  (I'm a Python newbie but somewhat of a C++ pro.)

Finally, I'm also somewhat of a babe in the woods with network
programming in general.  Any good references for learning about
this stuff, something that goes over issues of robustness, error
handling strategies, and so forth?  It'd be best if anything had
"tutorials" written in Python, of course.  ;)

thanks,
-tom!



From bdesth.nospam at removeme.free.fr  Wed Jul  2 15:27:08 2003
From: bdesth.nospam at removeme.free.fr (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 19:27:08 +0000
Subject: what is self?
References: <6071d159.0307020846.7653afaa@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3F03320C.8050300@removeme.free.fr>

paul h wrote:
> hi there,
> i've been programming cgi with python for a couple of months now, and
> i am now moving into some gui programming, using pygtk2.
> looking into the code, i see a lot of references to "self" ie
> self.window = ...
> however, i have no idea what self is?
> can anyone enlighten me...
> thanks very much...
> 

self is the current object (read : class instance). I think you should 
read the part about oop support in the python manual.

Bruno




From syver-en+usenet at online.no  Tue Jul 15 13:20:17 2003
From: syver-en+usenet at online.no (Syver Enstad)
Date: 15 Jul 2003 19:20:17 +0200
Subject: [OT] sentances with two meanings
References: <mailman.1058278343.23104.python-list@python.org> <bf167a$pvt$1@panix2.panix.com> <ufzl7rdno.fsf@online.no> <3F142A58.80426AA4@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <uptkbvh9q.fsf@online.no>

Alan Kennedy <alanmk at hotmail.com> writes:

> Syver Enstad wrote:
> 
> > > Given the biblical meaning of "known", this could have even more
> than
> 
> > > two meanings :-)
> > 
> > Does "to know" in english also mean to feel someone? In my own
> language
> 
> > the direct translation of the english know also means to feel. I
> could
> 
> > say (translated) "I know the cold", meaning I feel the cold
> > weather.
> 
> To "know" someone, in the biblical sense, is to have "carnal
> knowledge" of them, i.e. "knowledge of the flesh", i.e. to have had
> sexual relations with them.

Yes, I know that, I think it sounds great. It's just didn't make sense
the way I understand the english word "to know".

-- 

Vennlig hilsen 

Syver Enstad



From peter at engcorp.com  Sun Jul 20 22:33:19 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 22:33:19 -0400
Subject: sys.setcheckinterval query
References: <84fc4588.0307201255.254582df@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3F1B50EF.9EE3B859@engcorp.com>

Anand Pillai wrote:
> 
> """
> setcheckinterval(interval)
>  Set the interpreter's ``check interval''. This integer value
> [...]
> """
>  I am interested in the last but one statement which says, "Setting it
> to a larger value may increase performance for programs using
> threads.". So my question is what would that value be? How can I find
> out the number of python 'virtual instructions' for every function I have?

Do you really want to waste time optimizing at such a level?  I suspect
it's very unlikely you will notice any difference other than with 
order-of-magnitude changes.  In other words, it's normally every 10
instructions, but if you change it to 100 or 1000 you could notice a 
difference.  (Zope sets the checkinterval to 120 (in the version I checked), 
but I think I'd be surprised if 100 or 140 turned out much different.  
Trying to "tune" it to, say 27, or 73, or something would be sheer insanity.

If you need better performance than what you are getting, find your
bottlenecks by profiling and optimize there, or write a C extension,
or use Pyrex, or Psycho or something.

(To find the number of bytecode instructions, use module "dis", BTW.)

-Peter



From simonb at webone.com.au  Mon Jul 28 18:25:26 2003
From: simonb at webone.com.au (Simon Burton)
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 08:25:26 +1000
Subject: metaclasses
Message-ID: <pan.2003.07.28.22.25.25.311058@webone.com.au>

It seems this is a more general way to build classes than inheritance.
Is this a reasonable viewpoint?

>>> 
>>> def meth1(self):
...   print "i am meth1"
... 
>>> def meth2(self):
...   print "i am meth2"
... 
>>> Foo = type("Foo",(),{'meth':meth1}) # make a class
>>> foo = Foo() # make an instance
>>> foo.meth() # call a method
i am meth1
>>> 

Simon.




From ricardo.b at zmail.pt  Thu Jul 17 12:39:37 2003
From: ricardo.b at zmail.pt (Ricardo Bugalho)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 17:39:37 +0100
Subject: what u'=' mean???
References: <mailman.1058455468.2488.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2003.07.17.16.39.37.159366@zmail.pt>

On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 12:24:57 -0300, Luiz Siqueira Neto wrote:

> What 
> ----
> u'=' 

Its just a unicode string.
The string constants in Python can be prefixed with a u. Instead of
building a string object for that constant, the interpreter will build a
Unicode string object.

You can also prefix them with r, to make the interpreter ignore escape
codes. 
For example:
>>> print 'a\nb'
a
b
>>> print 'a\\nb'
a\nb
>>> print r'a\nb'
a\nb
>>>

And you can use the combined ur prefix.


-- 
	Ricardo




From bokr at oz.net  Fri Jul 25 17:57:44 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 25 Jul 2003 21:57:44 GMT
Subject: file.close()
References: <edITa.131868$Ph3.17333@sccrnsc04> <mailman.1059052897.16526.python-list@python.org> <7xhe5b82ip.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <bfrecu$tl8$0@216.39.172.122> <7xr84e9wey.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <bfs94o$dqm$0@216.39.172.122>

On 25 Jul 2003 13:35:49 -0700, Paul Rubin <http://phr.cx at NOSPAM.invalid> wrote:

>bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) writes:
>> >"done" here is a generic method that gets called on exiting a "with"
>> >block.  
>> First reaction == +1, but some questions...
>> 
>> 1) Is f.done() really necessary? I.e., doesn't an explicit del f
>>    take care of it if the object has been coded with a __del__
>>    method? I.e., the idea was to get the effect of CPython's
>>    immediate effective del on ref count going to zero, right?
>
>The ref count might not be zero.  Something inside the "with" block
>might make a new reference and leave it around.
>
Aha. In that case, is the del just a courtesy default action?

>> 2) how about with two files (or other multiple resources)?
>> 
>>     with f1,f2 = file('f1'), file('f2'):
>>         [do stuff with f1 & f2]
>> 
>> What is the canonical expansion?
>
>I think f1.done and f2.done should both get called.
Consistently ;-)

>
>> Also, what about the attribute version, i.e.,
>> 
>>     ob.f = file(frob)
>>     try:
>>       [do stuff with ob.f]
>>     finally:
>>       del ob.f # calls f.__del__, which calls/does f.close()
>> 
>> I.e., ob.f = something could raise an exception (e.g., a read-only property)
>> *after* file(frob) has succeeded. So I guess the easiest would be to limit
>> the left hand side to plain names... 
>
>The assignment should be inside the try.  If I had it on the outside
>before, that was an error.

Really? Don't you want a failing f = file(frob) exception to skip the finally,
since f might not even be bound to anything in that case?

The trouble I was pointing to is having two possible causes for exception, and only
one of them being of relevance to the file resource.

Maybe if you wanted to go to the trouble, it could be split something like

    with ob.f = file(frob):
        [do stuff with ob.f]

becoming

    _tmp = file(frob)
    try:
        ob.f = _tmp
        [ do stuff with ob.f ]
    finally:
        _tmp.done()
        del _tmp
        del ob.f

Not sure about the order. Plain ob.f.done() would not guarantee a call to _tmp.done(),
since ob could refuse to produce f, and f could be a wrapper produced during ob.f = _tmp,
and it might not have a __del__ method etc etc. _tmp is just for some internal temp binding.

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From jjl at pobox.com  Fri Jul  4 11:00:41 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 04 Jul 2003 16:00:41 +0100
Subject: Python Code Snippets
References: <be1hs0$111s$1@biggoron.nerim.net>
Message-ID: <87y8ze8hgm.fsf@pobox.com>

"Aur?lien G?ron" <ageron at HOHOHOHOvideotron.ca> writes:

> Does anyone know where I can find a lot of Python code snippets?
[...]

http://www.uselesspython.com/

They're working on useless 2, with categories.


John



From simonb at webone.com.au  Tue Jul  1 22:47:00 2003
From: simonb at webone.com.au (Simon Burton)
Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 12:47:00 +1000
Subject: function overloading
References: <pan.2003.07.01.19.42.06.202399@webone.com.au> <vg3q64c9e01h13@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2003.07.02.02.46.56.650131@webone.com.au>

Yes, it's a good idea; and that's how i started; i just can't remember all the different names.
Lazy init is a good idea too... But it adds a level to the class
invariant.
It seems i am the lazy one:

def __init__(self,*args,**kwargs):
  read_and_dispatch( args, kwargs, (self.init1,self.init2, ... ) )

was what i had in mind, but unless each init has a different signature,
it's gonna get more hairy:

class Signature:
  def __init__( self, siglist ):
    pass

class TypeSignature:
  pass

class InstanceSignature:
  pass

blah.

Simon Burton.


On Tue, 01 Jul 2003 16:03:17 -0400, John Roth wrote:

> 
> I'd subclass it. I see three classes here:
> 
> class Image:
>     def __init__(self, oldImage)
> 
> class NewImage(Image):
>     def __init__(self, height, width):
> 
> class ImageFromDisk(Image):
>     def __init__(self, fileName):
> 
> The subclasses only override the __init__ method
> of the base class.
> 
> An alternate method of dealing with the situation
> is to do lazy initialization. In other words, don't provide
> any parameters on the construction, and provide three
> different methods for initializing the resulting object.
> 
> John Roth




From uche at ogbuji.net  Mon Jul 28 13:55:32 2003
From: uche at ogbuji.net (Uche Ogbuji)
Date: 28 Jul 2003 10:55:32 -0700
Subject: XML Validation with Python
References: <cb035744.0307020901.472c3573@posting.google.com> <3F042045.C5CB0248@hotmail.com> <cb035744.0307030955.1e4f3bfe@posting.google.com> <3F0474F5.FD7E57F3@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <d116fbae.0307280955.6de19022@posting.google.com>

Alan Kennedy <alanmk at hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<3F0474F5.FD7E57F3 at hotmail.com>...

> Pytrex is unlikely to be ever completed, because James Clark has
> abandoned TREX in favour of RELAX-NG, for which I haven't seen any
> python implementation.
> 
> http://www.relaxng.org/

4Suite provides RELAX NG support.  See

http://uche.ogbuji.net/tech/akara/nodes/2003-01-01/relaxng

You can also just use Eric's XVIF directly:

http://www.advogato.org/proj/xvif/

David Mertz also has some tools for working with RNG compact syntax:

http://gnosis.cx/download/relax/
http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/library/x-matters25.html
http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/library/x-matters26.html

Good luck.

--Uche
http://uche.ogbuji.net



From news at exultants.org  Tue Jul  8 05:59:03 2003
From: news at exultants.org (Van Gale)
Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 09:59:03 GMT
Subject: path module
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1057651032.22842.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1057651032.22842.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <HBwOa.3887$AP6.3617@newssvr19.news.prodigy.com>

Ian Bicking wrote:
> I think Jason Orendorff's path module is really nice:
>   http://www.jorendorff.com/articles/python/path/

I love it and have been using it in a few personal projects.  My only 
gripe is its monolithic nature :)

Van




From robin.cull at pace.co.uk  Wed Jul 30 08:16:43 2003
From: robin.cull at pace.co.uk (Robin Cull)
Date: 30 Jul 2003 05:16:43 -0700
Subject: Is there a standard module library function to access /etc/passwd or /etc/group
Message-ID: <16469f07.0307300416.351ba776@posting.google.com>

Hi all, 

I'm writing a script that needs to do lookups on the UNIX passwd and
groups file on textual usernames/group names and return numeric
UID/GID.  Something that gives access to the C standard libarary
functions get[pw|group]ent(), for example.  I've Googled around on
various logical search terms and looked through pydoc and the module
reference but haven't found anything up to this point.  I'd have
thought that the os module would provide this sort of access.  I did
find something called UserDBM but this appears not to be a standard
module.

Before I go away and write a couple of functions to do this myself,
can anyone tell me if there is a module that provides this sort of
interface?  I'd really like it to be a standard module as the script
will have to run at a lot of different sites and I'm hoping there are
no external dependencies past an RPM installation of Python.  If not,
I'll do my own local functions in the script.

Thanks all.  

Cheers, 

Robin



From rtrocca_SPAM_ME_NOT at libero.it  Fri Jul  4 11:24:08 2003
From: rtrocca_SPAM_ME_NOT at libero.it (Riccardo)
Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 17:24:08 +0200
Subject: Form using HTML on PythonCard
References: <mailman.1057322477.18286.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <be4648$14eao$1@ID-193847.news.dfncis.de>

PythonCard is a wxWindows application, therefore you've got two choices:
1) use a wxHtmlWindow that can display *simple* html. Anyway I used it and I
don't think it can handle forms (but maybe I'm wrong). You'd need to extend
it a bit (it is a straightforward process see the wxp example in the
wxWindows demo)
2)if you are on windows you can use the wxHtmlIEWindow that renders html
using th WebBrowser COM component. The problem, then, is how to handle form
data. If you want to access them from python that can be troublesome.

Riccardo



"Luiz Siqueira Neto" <cybersamurai at mac.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.1057322477.18286.python-list at python.org...
> Somebody know how make html forms or python forms inside html to use as
gui
> application?
>
> The idea is make a client application like a web site of my interprise for
> customers who don't have good connection, in this way the customer can
select
> the products off line and connect only to execute the shop. The use of
HTML
> is to have the same paradigm to application and to site.
>





From glenfant at NOSPAM.bigfoot.com  Wed Jul  9 06:52:12 2003
From: glenfant at NOSPAM.bigfoot.com (Gilles Lenfant)
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 12:52:12 +0200
Subject: Why Python
References: <3f0be9ac@news.comindico.com.au>
Message-ID: <begrbm$2rjj$1@biggoron.nerim.net>

"Tony Steward" <tsteward at dodo.com.au> a ?crit dans le message de news:
3f0be9ac at news.comindico.com.au...
> Hello All,
> I am looking for a programming language to use to write a database type
> application to run on windows machines. Is python for me or pls suggest
what
> is.

Search (google) for mxODBC. it's a commercial package (free for personal
use) that enables to play with any database that provides an ODBC driver
(Oracle, MySQL, MS Access, MS SQL*Server, Sybase...)

>
> Is there a page that explains in simple terms what Python can do on
windows?
> Is there an IDE?

Many 3rd party IDEs are available, free and commercial ones.
The standard Python distro comes with IDLE.

> Is the windows api pre wrapped?

Not in the standard distro, but you can add win32all (google again) that
wraps most of the win32 native API. Plus a nice  IDE.
If you don't want mxODBC, win32all comes with an ODBC module. But it's not
as rich as mxODBC.

>
> Thanks

Welcome

--Gilles




From bgailer at alum.rpi.edu  Thu Jul  3 18:27:00 2003
From: bgailer at alum.rpi.edu (Bob Gailer)
Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 16:27:00 -0600
Subject: Python in Excel
In-Reply-To: <bg19gvsqavkv7sa077alvec6oo6cf6eabf@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20030703162459.07cb0e40@66.28.54.253>

At 07:37 PM 7/3/2003 +0000, Afanasiy wrote:

>Can I write Excel macros/scripts using Python?
>
>I mean to actually put Python into an Excel document, not using
>Python to access data, for example, from some Excel document.

Do you want to use Python as an Excel macro language instead of VBA?

If so, the answer is almost guaranteed to be NO.

Why do you want to do this? What alternatives can you accept?

Bob Gailer
bgailer at alum.rpi.edu
303 442 2625
-------------- next part --------------

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From db3l at fitlinxx.com  Wed Jul  2 14:36:05 2003
From: db3l at fitlinxx.com (David Bolen)
Date: 02 Jul 2003 14:36:05 -0400
Subject: When is unit-testing bad? [was: Re: does lack of type...]
References: <3EEE1210.3004AB45@engcorp.com> <878ys06tcv.fsf_-_@pobox.com> <vf11j7l3f0ku52@news.supernews.com> <87of0pno5s.fsf@titan.staselog.com> <vg40uajdqo3ac4@corp.supernews.com> <bdunoh$1pms$1@biggoron.nerim.net>
Message-ID: <u1xx83hey.fsf@fitlinxx.com>

"Aur?lien G?ron" <ageron at HOHOHOHOvideotron.ca> writes:

> There are things that are hard to unit test (I'm talking about automated
> unit tests here) and which you just can't do without in some projects.  For
> instance, the database!  I worked in a couple of projects with automatic
> unit tests for the DB related components, and having lived through it, I'm
> not sure that it was worth it at all!  Manual unit tests would have made
> much more sense.  (...)
> (...)
> I guess my point is that though you may be right in some specific contexts,
> I don't think you can generalize.  That's IMHO of course.

I'd agree that there are elements that are much more difficult than
others to test in an automated fashion - sometimes impractically so
given the cost to benefits comparison.  Personally, I'd agree that
databases, GUIs and asynchronous activities such as network or
multi-threading are areas that fall into that category.  But I also
think that such areas can often be tested far more than some might
think within a given development effort.

The idea is to strip any layer that can't be (or for a given project
can't be justified to be) automatically tested down to its bare
minimum, because an automated test will almost always be of more value
over time (with repeated use, different developers, etc...) than a
manual test.

This is where using the tests during development (as opposed to
afterwards) can help ensure a test friendly design, and one that is
often more modular and structured than a typical developer might have
otherwise arrived at without the tests during development.

For example, when writing a DB interface layer or component (whether
for persistence or direct RDBMS access), if you're trying to construct
tests as you develop, you will more than likely arrive at a structure
where the final database access layer is isolated enough that you can
mock it up for most of your tests of the remainder of your code - if
only because without it you find yourself not able to construct tests :-)

This might take the form of a specific component used to wrap raw
database access.  Or, if it's a SQL database, you might find yourself
designing business components such that they serve as producers of the
actual SQL, for which a separate object consumes it and executes it
against a database.  That interface (the SQL output) provides a test
point for the business logic without involving the database.

In the former case, tests would simulate the lowest level database
layer to function just as is necessary for the test (accepting and
returning appropriate data), thus being able to rapidly and
efficiently test the remainder of the code without a live database in
an automated and controlled fashion.  In the latter case, the tests
would execute the business logic and compare the result to expected
SQL.  A much smaller suite of tests to exercise the database layer
would use a test database (or equivalent) but would be focused
strictly on the raw database interface, or execution of known SQL test
statements, and should be much more containable (in time and
development effort), and probably still automatable, although perhaps
on a longer cycle time.

If the system wasn't designed with testing involved, the actual
database I/O might very well be embedded in a higher layer (such as
the persistence mechanism which might be tightly coupled to an object
layer) and hard to isolate from the rest of the logic.  For example,
you might find business objects directly calling a persistence or
database I/O layer within their implementation, making it hard to test
the business logic without a live database.

Similar ideas apply to GUIs - keep the actual interface layer as
extremely thin as possible, and containing no business logic or
application decision processing.  Whether you use MVC, MVP or an
equivalent approach, ensure that you can test all underlying business
logic without actually needing a GUI.  This holds for applications and
web sites (in many respects, a web site can just be modeled as a
different form of view).

For example, in MVC/MVP, your automated test can call
controller/presenter methods to simulate any aspect of user
interaction with the UI, but without the need for a UI, and can mock
up a non-UI view to ensure that the model is notified of appropriate
changes and that queries to it reflect the new information.

At some point you need to verify that performing action X against UI
object Y generates the right requests to the other system components,
but that's far more constrained testing then trying to test the
business logic through that UI.  And yes, that could probably involve
external UI testing tools, or some manual interaction with an
automated test mocking the underlying controller/presenter and model.

Of course, this is all easiest if you are designing a system with
testability in mind from the get go.  Trying to retrofit unit tests
onto a GUI for example, where much of the business logic is attached
to specific UI elements and not reachable without going through the UI
is just plain old difficult.  The idea of making up tests as you go
(whether TDD or equivalent) and using them as part of the development
process helps not only ensure that the final product is as tested, in
as automated a fashion, as possible, but that it ends up being
designed to be tested.

-- David



From mwilson at the-wire.com  Wed Jul  9 13:01:59 2003
From: mwilson at the-wire.com (Mel Wilson)
Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 13:01:59 -0400
Subject: Collective memory
References: <mailman.1057083728.8224.python-list@python.org>
 <vg88va53uha8e@corp.supernews.com> <3F09F136.6060000@srv.net>
 <rfrpt-ah3.ln1@beastie.ix.netcom.com> <BVoC/oHpvq2Y092yn@visi.com>
 <7rist-gc3.ln1@beastie.ix.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <HqED/ks/KPkL089yn@the-wire.com>

In article <7rist-gc3.ln1 at beastie.ix.netcom.com>,
Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed at ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>Richard Steiner fed this fish to the penguins on Tuesday 08 July 2003
>01:48 am:
>>>        Anything in 6 for Continuation
>>
>> ...except a space.  :-)
>>
>        Ah, but on a hollerith card, a space is /nothing/ -- no mark at all <G>

   No.  On a hollerith card a space is something -- amounts
of paper occupying volume in twelve particular places.
Other characters approach being nothing to different
degrees.

        Regards.        Mel.



From v.wehren at home.nl  Sat Jul 19 16:42:26 2003
From: v.wehren at home.nl (vincent wehren)
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 22:42:26 +0200
Subject: List of declared variables in interactive Python session?
References: <pNdSa.397$Y5.120@nntpserver.swip.net>
Message-ID: <bfc9t5$ued$1@news3.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>

"Fredrik Fornwall" <frefo253 at student.liu.se> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:pNdSa.397$Y5.120 at nntpserver.swip.net...
> Hello.
>
> Is there a way to list all the declared variables in an interactive
> Python session?

use "vars() "

HTH,

Vincent Wehren

>
> Thanks,
> Fredrik
>





From tim.one at comcast.net  Sat Jul 12 03:26:15 2003
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 03:26:15 -0400
Subject: The "intellectual property" misnomer
In-Reply-To: <1057987669.28456.79.camel@lothlorien>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCKEPCENAB.tim.one@comcast.net>

[Ian Bicking]
> Functionally, though, I think the term intellectual property here
> works.

Yup.  "Copyrights, trademarks, patents, stuff like that" is the common and
the intended meaning.

> PSF holds (to their knowledge) all intellectual property associated
> with Python

No, it doesn't.  Aahz was correct in clarifying that it's part of the PSF's
mission to obtain that stuff.  For the most obvious example, stare at your
Python license file:  copyrights in some of the Python source code prior to
the 2.1 release are still held by CWI, CNRI, and BeOpen.com.  CNRI also
holds several trademarks related to Python, and has applications for others
in progress (such as for "Python" itself -- that's been in progress for
about 3 years now!).

> -- there may be no patents, but with the statement they assert that
> either there are no patents or they hold them.

The PSF doesn't know of any patents associated with Python.  It's possible
that the PSF will apply for some, though, and I like using "intellectual
property" because it covers (in the common understanding) all stuff of this
nature.

> We also know (implied from other sources) that PSF does not restrict
> its intellectual property.

That's an explicit part of the PSF's Mission Statement.  For example, if the
PSF were to seek algorithmic patents, it would be to protect the free use of
algorithms in Python that may be patentable, or perhaps as a deterrent
against lawsuits (much as private corporations sometimes build a patent
portfolio as protection against patent suits from other companies -- "oh
yeah?  you sue us for process X, and we'll sue you for process Y, so let's
compromise and enter a cross-licensing agreement instead").  Not that there
are any current PSF plans to seek patents -- there aren't.  It would be
within the PSF's mission to do so, though, if we thought that would be in
the public interest.

> The intent of this statement is that someone using Python need not
> worry about "intellectual property" associated with Python, which
> includes at least patent, copyright, and trade secrets.

Well, the PSF would *like* to say that, but nobody can predict what courts
will say, and there's always some element of risk.  The PSF exists in part
to hold Python's IP in the public interest, but doesn't yet even hold all
that currently exists.

> I don't know how this applies to trademarks, since they are different
> from the others, and obviously PSF does not hold every trademark that
> contains Python and relates to computers.

The PSF doesn't currently hold any trademarks or service marks.  Guido has a
strong case (IMO) for a trademark on Python as applied to a computer
language, but the US trademark office doesn't make such fine distinctions
readily.

[Ben Finney]
>> If the PSF holds software patents in Python, I imagine many would be
>> outraged.  I don't believe it does.  If it's not the case, why imply
>> it with an overbroad term?

[Ian]
> I would not be outraged.

Good -- we've had quite enough outrage in this thread already, and, as
above, it is conceivable that the PSF may hold patents someday.

> If they enforced those patents, then I might be outraged.

Me too.  Unless it was just to destroy Perl <wink>.





From prashsingh at yahoo.com  Wed Jul 23 12:03:15 2003
From: prashsingh at yahoo.com (Prashant Singh)
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 11:03:15 -0500
Subject: py2exe command line window problem
In-Reply-To: <f994d58d.0307230456.39108772@posting.google.com>
References: <mailman.1058892636.2682.python-list@python.org> <bfjtu9$g4h$1@joe.rice.edu> <f994d58d.0307230456.39108772@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bfmbek$qrr$1@joe.rice.edu>

Klitos Kyriacou wrote:
> The fact that the console window shows it's running cmd.exe (the Windows
> Command Processor) gives us a good clue. Not all console windows run cmd.exe,
> so this is significant. Python's os.system function uses the shell specified
> by the ComSpec environment variable (usually C:\WINNT\system32\cmd.exe) to
> run the command given as an argument. Check if you are calling system() in
> your Python script. If you are, you can be fairly certain that's what's
> creating the console window.
> 
> Regards,
> Klitos

That was it. I replaced the os.system() call with a call to os.spawnl() 
and now the console window doesn't show up.

Thanks a lot,
prashant.




From skip at pobox.com  Fri Jul 11 14:05:05 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 13:05:05 -0500
Subject: Reading a DOS text file and writing out Mac
In-Reply-To: <20030711165726.GA29760@dangerousideas.com>
References: <20030711165726.GA29760@dangerousideas.com>
Message-ID: <16142.64593.775446.454889@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    Jen> Is there a way to set the EOL character that Python recognizes? 

Not really.

    Jen> For example, I'd like to set it to cr/lf (okay, that's eol
    Jen> characters) when reading a file (DOS text) and set it to just cr
    Jen> when writing out (Mac).  Is there a way to do this?

Sure.  Open the input file in Universal newline mode (add "U" to the open
flags) then write it in binary mode, appending the '\r' character yourself.
Universal newline mode is new in 2.3 however.  You can always open the input
file in binary mode and explicitly strip any trailing \r\n pairs.

    inf = open("somedosfile", "rb")
    outf = open("somemacfile", "wb")
    for line in inf.read().split("\r\n"):
        outf.write(line+"\r")
    inf.close()
    outf.close()

or, if you're running 2.3:

    inf = open("somedosfile", "rU")
    outf = open("somemacfile", "wb")
    for line in inf:
        if line.endswith("\n"):
            line = line[:-1]
        outf.write(line+"\r")
    inf.close()
    outf.close()

Something like that should start you in the right direction.

Skip




From cidolfas at rpgclassics.com  Mon Jul 28 10:09:05 2003
From: cidolfas at rpgclassics.com (Daniel Orner)
Date: 28 Jul 2003 07:09:05 -0700
Subject: CGI "download" prompt?
References: <77dd287a.0307240632.40c6c309@posting.google.com>	<3f205f06$0$49115$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>	<77dd287a.0307250619.7c2ec441@posting.google.com>	<mailman.1059144400.10484.python-list@python.org>	<3f215bef$0$49107$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl> <mailman.1059154658.26970.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <77dd287a.0307280609.5ebbb1ca@posting.google.com>

Gerhard H?ring <gh at ghaering.de> wrote in message news:<mailman.1059154658.26970.python-list at python.org>...
> Irmen de Jong wrote:
> > Gerhard H ring wrote:
> > 
> >> Erhm. Let's suppose you want to send an RTF file and have the browser 
> >> pop up a save dialog with a certain filename preconfigured:
> >>
> >> Then send these headers:
> >>
> >> Content-Type: application/rtf
> >> Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=mydocument.rtf
> > 
> > I didn't know about Content-Disposition! If this works,
> > that's very nice-- especially if the filename part of that
> > header is actually used by the web browser.
> 
> That's what it is about. See http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc2183.html for 
> details :)
> 
> -- Gerhard

Great, it works! Thanks very much!



From rpgnmets at aol.com  Thu Jul 31 14:08:35 2003
From: rpgnmets at aol.com (Rob Renaud)
Date: 31 Jul 2003 11:08:35 -0700
Subject: Newbie: implementing lowlevel protocol over socket int32 data handling
References: <bgbaj5$kgv$2@news4.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>
Message-ID: <3759308d.0307311008.2d931ca@posting.google.com>

Bram <b.neijt at ai.rug.nl> wrote in message news:<bgbaj5$kgv$2 at news4.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>...
> Hi,
> Summ: "What is the best way to handle int8,16 and 32 data in python?"
> 
> Im currently working on a class to implement the gui protocol of 
> mldonkey. (http://mldonkey.lemmster.de/wiki/index.php/GuiProtocol)
> However this requires to send int32 and int16 and even int8 integers.
> 
> To create data I'm using the work-around of converting everything to hex 
> values, and then converting the hex values to a data string wich I put 
> on the socket (e.g. "\x00\xF0").
> I could do the same on the recieving end: chop it up in bytes and 
> convert them to numbers (combining the hi and lo bytes of the int16 with 
> some calculations)
> 
> However, there must be a better way of doing this.
> Can anyone help me on this problem?
> 
> Bram

This should make it a lot easier for you.

http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/module-struct.html

But this will probably be the 4th post containing such a reference. 
As undoubtedly 3 other people have posted it, but have not yet shown
up on google groups.



From see at my.signature.com  Sat Jul  5 13:31:09 2003
From: see at my.signature.com (Andrei)
Date: Sat, 05 Jul 2003 17:31:09 +0000
Subject: Tkinter + Python 2.3b2 on WinXP
References: <3068875.1057181763@dbforums.com> <m33chl1k22.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <3077839.1057426269@dbforums.com>

Originally posted by Martin V. L?Wis 
> Andrei  writes:
>
> > What should I do to make Tkinter work again?
>
> Unset TCL_LIBRARY and TK_LIBRARY from your environment.
>
> Regards,
> Martin 

Thanks, that did the trick.

--
Contact info (decode with rot13): cebwrpg5 at bcrenznvy.pbz
Fcnzserr! Cyrnfr qb abg hfr va choyvp zrffntrf. V ernq gur yvfg, ab arrq gb PP.


Posted via http://dbforums.com



From claird at lairds.com  Wed Jul 16 12:21:54 2003
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 16:21:54 -0000
Subject: How about using python to write a CMS?
References: <bf38et$sp9$1@news.seed.net.tw> <pan.2003.07.16.13.33.44.431005@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <vhaut2ec64ft35@corp.supernews.com>

In article <pan.2003.07.16.13.33.44.431005 at 127.0.0.1>,
David McNab  <postmaster at 127.0.0.1> wrote:
			.
			.
			.
>Twisted or Zope may feel godo to use, but will lock out a lot of users who
>only have access to Apache-based hosts.
>
>mod_python is another option, but not often available in commercial Apache
>environments.
>
>CGI is available on most web hosts, but suffers performance issues.
			.
			.
			.
Twisted and Zope are NOT incompatible with Apache.

I think you probably had in mind something that was true, but
it came out in a misleading way.  Yes, there certainly can be
issues with, for example, installing Zope usefully on a host
where you lack root.  It's not impossible, though.
-- 

Cameron Laird <Cameron at Lairds.com>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
Personal:  http://phaseit.net/claird/home.html



From mis6 at pitt.edu  Thu Jul 24 16:44:10 2003
From: mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato)
Date: 24 Jul 2003 13:44:10 -0700
Subject: feature request: a better str.endswith
References: <2259b0e2.0307180401.5dae02f2@posting.google.com> <mailman.1058530829.7072.python-list@python.org> <3f17f883$0$49107$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl> <2259b0e2.0307190529.57338b3f@posting.google.com> <NpkSa.16049$7O.14695@nwrdny01.gnilink.net> <2259b0e2.0307200721.16ef2ea1@posting.google.com> <45228044.0307210522.1ef95144@posting.google.com> <2259b0e2.0307210918.614892ba@posting.google.com> <bfi4ir$t21$0@216.39.172.122> <2259b0e2.0307221611.51d6ff27@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <2259b0e2.0307240511.63c8d21@posting.google.com>

Oops, sorry for the multiple message, Opera betrayed me :-(



From rochkind at basepath.com  Mon Jul 14 22:27:54 2003
From: rochkind at basepath.com (Marc Rochkind)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 20:27:54 -0600
Subject: Jtux -- new Java (Jython!) interface to POSIX/SUS
Message-ID: <oprsbygsqcojfyi9@den.news.speakeasy.net>

Now you can get at POSIX/SUS from Jython.

Details at http://basepath.com/aup/jtux. Open Source under the BSD license.

--Marc




From tzot at sil-tec.gr  Tue Jul 22 13:13:06 2003
From: tzot at sil-tec.gr (Christos TZOTZIOY Georgiou)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 20:13:06 +0300
Subject: Confusing automated translators.
References: <37d6f77c.0307130932.1e3adf0d@posting.google.com> <3f11ac74$0$49101$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl> <ad052e5c.0307131718.4903430d@posting.google.com> <3F12808B.E53193B8@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <e0sqhvkd1jjha6u9hn7od7o5ap85cslvje@4ax.com>

On Mon, 14 Jul 2003 11:06:03 +0100, rumours say that Alan Kennedy
<alanmk at hotmail.com> might have written:

>I'd love to hear of other similar phrases. And somehow I intuit
>there's people in this ng who know lots of them :-)

No double meaning phrases here, but I recall an urban myth of some
american president trying the newest CIA super-secret automatic
translator to and fro russian, so whatever he says, gets translated to
russian and back to english.  He enjoys the machine a lot, and when some
assistant comes to remind him that the first lady is waiting for him, he
says "out of sight, out of mind...", only for the machine to call him
"invisible maniac" :)
-- 
TZOTZIOY, I speak England very best,
Microsoft Security Alert: the Matrix began as open source.



From mynews44 at yahoo.com  Tue Jul 29 14:35:35 2003
From: mynews44 at yahoo.com (google account)
Date: 29 Jul 2003 11:35:35 -0700
Subject: newbie needs a little help... trying to write an ftp script.
References: <e84f5d12.0307281040.42a19391@posting.google.com> <bg58tn$4jc$1@atlantis.news.tpi.pl>
Message-ID: <e84f5d12.0307291035.3cb039f8@posting.google.com>

Wojtek Walczak posted a simple example:

<snipped my original post>> 

> import ftplib,sys
> 
> ftp = ftplib.FTP('ftp.python.org')
> ftp.login('anonymous','qwe at asd.pl')
> print ftp.retrlines('LIST')

I think it works the same if I use print or simply
ftp.retrlines('list')


> ftp.cwd('pub/python')
> print ftp.retrlines('LIST')


I am interested in reading this into a string so that I can process
it.  I need to get the name of each file in teh directory so that I
can do a loop to retr them all; ie,  strip out all directories,  and
then strip out all the extra information (permissions, dates.  I try
stuff like

SomeString = ftp.retrlines('list')

but this only seems to read in the return string:

print SomeString
226 Transfer Complete

IS there anyway I can read in the whole thing?   It is obviously
taking the string as being the only part between the single quotes... 
I don't know how to read the rest into a string.



> print ftp.retrbinary('retr README', sys.stdout.write)

This is the line I am most interested in!  I assume that the callback
has something to do with how the program handles the data it is
retrieving,  and that to save the file it is retrieving I have to open
a file,  write the file,  then close the file...  This line would be
the writing of the file,  I am guessing.  something like

filename = open(r'd:\downloads\' + file, 'w')
ftp.retrbinary('retr README', filename)
filename.close

And that I can run this thing through a loop for each of the filenames
that I get outta the first string.


Am I completely way offbase here with what I am attempting?  Is this
going to actually download the files from the ftp server to the local
hardware?  Once I can read the output into a string I guess I can get
kicked off.  This is my current hurdle.


Thanks for looking!  

googleboy.



From adechert at earthlink.net  Sun Jul 20 19:53:03 2003
From: adechert at earthlink.net (Alan Dechert)
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 23:53:03 GMT
Subject: Possible use of Python for a voting machine demo project -- your feedback requested
References: <P9DSa.111436$Io.9552373@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <bff56e$8iv$1@slb9.atl.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <zXFSa.111727$Io.9572470@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>

"Andrew Dalke" <adalke at mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:bff56e$8iv$1 at slb9.atl.mindspring.net...
> Alan Dechert:
> > will change.  For example, when the voter selects a president/vice
> president
> > pair, the background will change; the non-selected pairs will be greyed
> > while the selected pair will be highlighted (very brightly -- should
light
>
> "greyed" in normal UI parlance means the option is no longer selected.
> What happens if someone pressed the wrong button?  How is the correct
> selection made?
>
Point (or click on) again to de-select.  This is one thing that may require
a little voter training. I think it's easy enough, but then we'll find out.
You could add a "reset" button but that would make an already busy screen
even busier.  I'm not sure if that would be easier.

> > 3) When "WRITE-IN CANDIDATE" is selected, a large widow (maybe the full
> > screen) will pop up with a QWERTY keyboard in the upper half.  This
> keyboard
> > will have only three rows with the alpha keys (no punctuation or numbers
> > needed except for perhaps the hyphen... no shift, all CAPS).
>
> No apostrophe?  What if I want to vote for "O'Reilly"
>
As a matter of fact, we won't let you vote for O'Reilly.  On second thought,
you're right, I guess.  Okay we'll have an apostrophe available.  Anything
else?

> > selected.  De-selecting one of the selected candidates reactivates the
> > others.
>
> Ahhh, I think I would have been confused by that.
>
> Then again, I get confused at time by the machine I use now.  :)
>
as before ...

> > 7) The County Commissioner race illustrates how ranked preference voting
> > would look.  When the voter selects the first one, the button in the "1"
> > column is filled and the text "1st" will appear in the space between the
> row
> > of buttons and the candidate name.  When the next selection is made, the
> > corresponding button in the "2" column is filled and "2nd" appears, and
so
> > on.  There is a "CLEAR CHOICES" button in case the voter wants to start
> > over.
>
> Heh.  I read "CLEAR CHOICES" as a command "the choices are clear".
> What about "RESET CHOICES", or an alternate like
>
point taken.  I changed it.

http://home.earthlink.net/~adechert/ballot-mockup3.gif

>   Bill the Cat     [1]  [2]  [3]  [4]
>   Snoopy Dog  [1]  [2]  [3]  [4]
>   Go Fish         [1]  [2]  [3]  [4]
>   Lucy Ricardo [1]  [2]  [3]  [4]
>   James Kirk    [1]  [2]  [3]  [4]
>
This looks reasonable.  There are several ways that ranked preference has
been implemented.

This on-screen ballot is designed to closely follow paper ballot design.
Partly, this makes it easy for a voter to mark a sample ballot and have the
on-screen ballot look the same.  The design I have there also means that a
marksense version could also look the same.

The buttons in this case are just for display.  The order is set by the
order the candidates are selected.

> and how are writins added to this?
>
You would do the write-in as with other races.  If you did the write-in
before selecting others, then the write-in would be ranked 1st.

> *sigh* .. I know just enough to ask questions and be annoying, but not
> enough to know the answers....
>
> > 8) The printout is intended to come from a personal laser printer
located
> in
> > the voting booth.  For the demo, we'll probably use the HP Laserjet 5L.
>
> I approve of the Mercuri system (I think that's what it's called when a
> paper ballot is generated from an electronic ballot - the all-electronic
one
> I use now is scary).  ....
>
Mercuri (Mercuri-Neumann, more accurately), suggests the paper ballot be
inaccessible to the voter -- viewable behind glass.  This involves some
expensive and proprietary hardware since paper handling must also deal with
rejected printouts.

My scheme is cheaper and lower tech.  It allows the voter to handle the
ballot.  This involves a minor security issue (then again, since when have
we decided we can't trust voters to touch their ballots?).  But I think
handling the ballot is better psychologically for the voter.  This is an
issue for our full-blown study to look at in some detail, but we won't worry
about this for the demo.

> I was just thinking though.  Suppose I wanted to rig
> the elections by paying for votes.  If I know the format of the ballot, I
> could generate them myself on specially marked paper then give that
> to the people who I've payed for the vote, who go through the process
> of voting but use the paper I gave them instead of the printout..  Later,
I
> or my cronies get access to the ballots (eg, "I'm a reporter and I want to
> verify the votes") and can see if my special ballots are included, and
> reward/punish as appropriate.
>
> Not likely to be a problem in real life, but just something I was
> thinking about.
>
It is a real life problem.  We've given a lot of thought to this issue.  The
printout will be designed so that counterfeits can be detected easily.  A
voting machine will produce special markings particular to that machine and
that Election Day which you would have no way of knowing how to duplicate on
another machine.  There are various other safeguards that will be built into
the system so that counterfeits can be detected.  Again, this is not
something we'll spend any time on for the demo.

Vote buying schemes won't be effective against our system because while
elections people will know how to spot the counterfeits, crooks (out side
the system) won't be able to distinguish counterfeit from real.

I don't want to go into this in any depth because I don't have days and days
to go over all the possibilities -- we've gone over this stuff before lots
and it will be investigated in depth in the full blown study.  I just don't
have time right now -- just trying to get a simple demo built.

> > California ($200 million) and the Help America Vote Act ($3.9 billion) a
> lot
> > of public funds are being wasted on outrageously expensive hardware that
> > will be obsolete in a very few years.
>
> That's for certain.  The tendency to move to higher-tech, more expensive,
> and less trustworthy voting machines is scary.
>
Agreed.

> > for conducting elections will be created.  We anticipate having quite a
> few
> > non-academics involved too.  For example, Roy Saltman is probably the
best
> > known voting technology expert and he's not an academic.  I'm not an
> > academic either.
>
> The only person I've heard of in this field is Rebecca Mercuri, who
> I think is an academic.  I've read a lot of RISKS.  :)
>
> > The
> > selections will be bar coded in a strip on the left edge.  Probably,
> > write-in candidate names will be in a separate bar code.  The printout
> will
> > list the voter's selections in text that can be easily read by humans
and
> > scanners.
>
> The phrase "bar code" scares me in that the bar code and the human
> readable text may differ.  Why not just have everything in text?
>
> > Blind voters will use the system wearing headphones and using a
> > hand held device to register selections.
>
> Isn't that overkill?  I seem to recall that already there are provisions
> for people with special needs to have someone in the booth to help.
>
I don't think it's overkill.  One of the current [lame] arguments against a
"voter-verified paper trail" is that "Mandating Voter-Verified Paper Trails
Could Deny Voters With Disabilities the Right to Cast a Secret Ballot."

http://www.civilrights.org/issues/voting/details.cfm?id=14878

We have to have a system that allows blind people to maintain a secret
ballot.  This requirement is pretty much absolute, I would say.

> In addition, how does a blind person do a write-in vote?  ...
>
As with current DREs, they use a device with mechanical buttons.  It's also
likely (the Help America Vote Act pretty much mandates it) that there will
be one system set up at each polling place that will be specially outfitted
for disabled voters.  Generally I don't think the voting machines will have
attached keyboards, but the one for disabled voters might include one.

> Or someone who is illiterate and hard of hearing? ...
>
We are not going to do much with this for the demo.  These are issues that
require a lot of time and effort to study.

> > So, please let me know what you think about using Python for this demo.
> > Also, if you are a Python expert and would like to help as a volunteer
> > (we're all volunteers until the project gets funding), please contact me
> > ASAP.  We want to have a demo running very soon!  -- within a few weeks.
>
> Python would do this just fine.  There are the various GUI projects, but
> this sounds like a good place for pygame.
>
Okay, thanks for your input.

> My caution though is that usability testing for this is deeply hard,
> and I would advise against "a few weeks" even for demo prototype
> code as you suggest.
>
Darn!  Things usually takes longer than we want.  We're not going to do a
great deal of usability testing for the demo.  Mainly, we want to
demonstrate that cheap trailing-edge PCs can make great voting machines.
It's understood that we will have some lack of functionality and rough edges
that will be worked out in the full study.  Also worth noting: the PC voting
machine software is a very small part of the overall problem.

Alan Dechert





From jjl at pobox.com  Thu Jul 31 13:01:51 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 31 Jul 2003 18:01:51 +0100
Subject: <dict>.setdefault()
References: <kmgiivclivi0vhbgr6adel4dafflq6i6ir@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <87ispid400.fsf@pobox.com>

Tino Lange <tl_news at nexgo.de> writes:
[...]
> This is not what I expected - why evaluate the second argument if it's
> not needed?
[...]

Because that's the way Python always does function calls?


> Is this really  by design?

Yes.


> If there's a complicated, expensive to
> calculate/build 2nd argument (maybe a function call) then it's also
> quite ineffective to evaluate it just to throw away...

Don't, then.  :-)  Use key in dict, or dict.has_key(key).


John



From alanmk at hotmail.com  Wed Jul 23 11:56:38 2003
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 16:56:38 +0100
Subject: A challenge to the ASCII proponents.
References: <bf167a$pvt$1@panix2.panix.com> <ufzl7rdno.fsf@online.no> <3F142A58.80426AA4@hotmail.com> <2259b0e2.0307161620.4a9353f1@posting.google.com> <Xns93BB246FDDBCFJanC@213.118.75.80> <3F168011.3AEB3EFC@hotmail.com> <3F172442.2040907@v.loewis.de> <3F17C1D4.1A70703A@hotmail.com> <m3fzl3lvg6.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <3F1849A0.CB3053D8@hotmail.com> <amqqhv0gbdok6dnk6ib9342lejpc4ap5pd@4ax.com> <Xns93C160E9ED2F3duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1> <i07thv48ej6nr6sk83ai0g2b2g8shvmqnb@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3F1EB036.E61BE720@hotmail.com>

Christos TZOTZIOY Georgiou wrote:

> That was my intention: to misspell as 'c?fe' the french word 'caf?',
> and then search for it in google groups.  This is because the
> original greek word --used as an example by Alan, Martin etc--
> was misspelled as 'gi/gnwskw' instead of 'gignw/skw' (accent
> 'oxia' in the wrong letter, resulting in an inexistant word), so
> it's normal that a google groups search shows up Martin's UTF-8 post
> as the only one containing the word.

Apologies for the original misspelling. That's purely my fault. I
stopped studying ancient Greek 20 years ago (swapped it for the
hard-headed practicality of applied mathematics), these days mostly I
just remember the alphabet, and a couple of modern Greek words from
Greek vacations.

But I don't think the misspelling mattered for our exercise. The sole
purpose was to find out if <some-sequence-of-non-ascii-characters>
travelled correctly through UseNet.

Since we know what the misspelling was, I think the search engine
exercise we went through was acceptable, because the test was whether
our known search term would be correctly found or not.

The actual spelling was not important for the purposes of our
exercise, although again I apologise for the error.

Euxaristw, Christos.

--
alan kennedy
-----------------------------------------------------
check http headers here: http://xhaus.com/headers
email alan:              http://xhaus.com/mailto/alan



From andreas.kuntzagk at mdc-berlin.de  Wed Jul  2 11:11:39 2003
From: andreas.kuntzagk at mdc-berlin.de (Andreas Kuntzagk)
Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 17:11:39 +0200
Subject: os.fork() different in cgi-script?
References: <bdudn2$11c3gt$1@fu-berlin.de> <85adbxouec.fsf@stowers-institute.org>
Message-ID: <bdusom$10uv66$1@fu-berlin.de>

On Wed, 02 Jul 2003 09:50:03 +0000, Michael Coleman wrote:

> Probably because stdout is being buffered here.  The pid got written in
> the buffer (but not yet actually printed), then the process was forked,
> then the buffer got flushed (written out) by each child.
> 
> One solution would be to make sure everything is flushed before you
> fork.

Thanx, that's it. Is it possible/advisable to make stdout unbuffered?

Andreas



From phampton at eso.org  Thu Jul  3 05:58:51 2003
From: phampton at eso.org (Paul Hampton)
Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 11:58:51 +0200
Subject: Starting and stopping a background process
Message-ID: <be0uos$khj$1@nntp.hq.eso.org>

Hi all

I'm new to python so please be gentle :)

I'm trying to write a module for my media playing PC which will record 
input directly from the soundcard using LAME. At the moment I can get it 
started ok and am about to try and work out the best way to stop the 
process (which is threaded). I could get the process id of LAME and just 
kill it, but I think this is a bit messy. Can anyone give me any 
suggestions on how to make this script determine if lame is already 
running and then stop it if it is, if not then start it? The following 
code is run when a certain key is pressed:

class main_recording_thread(threading.Thread):
 

     def __init__(self):
         threading.Thread.__init__(self)
 

     def run(self):
         self.recording_threaded()
 

     def recording_threaded(self):
         popup_string="Recording Audio Stream"
         pop = PopupBox(text=popup_string)
         pop.show()
         time.sleep(4)
         pop.destroy()
         print "Recording"
         time.sleep(20)
         recording=1
         os.system("sox -t ossdsp -w -s -r 44100 -c 2 /dev/dsp -t raw - 
|     /usr/local/freevo/runtime/apps/lame -x -m s - ./test.mp3")
         popup_string="Audio Recording Stopped"
         pop = PopupBox(text=popup_string)
         pop.show()
         time.sleep(4)
         pop.destroy()
         print "Recording Stopped"
         recording=0
         return []

I expect my coding is really bad as it is my second attempt ever at python.

So, what would be the best way to do this start/stop thing?

Thanks in advance
Paul




From martin at v.loewis.de  Sat Jul  5 03:58:45 2003
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-15?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 05 Jul 2003 09:58:45 +0200
Subject: Tkinter + Python 2.3b2 on WinXP
References: <3068875.1057181763@dbforums.com>
Message-ID: <m33chl1k22.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Andrei <see at my.signature.com> writes:

> What should I do to make Tkinter work again?

Unset TCL_LIBRARY and TK_LIBRARY from your environment.

Regards,
Martin



From staschuk at telusplanet.net  Wed Jul 30 17:14:38 2003
From: staschuk at telusplanet.net (Steven Taschuk)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 15:14:38 -0600
Subject: Exceptions as New Style Classes
In-Reply-To: <98c4ab9a.0307300830.72dcdc74@posting.google.com>; from zuckuss@apexmail.com on Wed, Jul 30, 2003 at 09:30:45AM -0700
References: <98c4ab9a.0307300830.72dcdc74@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20030730151438.A1499@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>

Quoth Andrew:
> To satisfy my curiosity I was wondering if anyone knew if this
> behaviour was intentional?
> Is there a specific reason why exceptions are not allowed to be new
> style classes?

It is intentional.

There are two difficulties with allowing new-style classes as
exception types.  Ideas exist for dealing with them, but at the
moment none of them as been implemented.

Problem 1: Implicit instantiation.  When the interpreter sees
    raise x
it must determine whether x is a class or an instance, so it can
determine whether to instantiate it.  (E.g., in
    x = TypeError
    raise x
instantiation will occur during the raise statement, whereas in
    x = TypeError()
    raise x
it will not.)  The problem is that, with new-style classes, there
is no clear and strong distinction between classes and instances,
so it is not clear how the interpreter can make this decision.

Problem 2: It is probably not desirable to allow things like
    raise 3
    raise {'d': 17}
since raising such objects as ints and dicts (etc.) is very
unlikely to be anything but a bug in practice.  (There are cases
in which you might want to do such things, but they are rare.)
However, there is (or will and should be) no clear and strong
distinction between, say, user-defined new-style classes and
built-in types, so it is not clear how the interpreter would
detect such cases and forbid them.

At the moment the dominant idea for solving these problems is to
make inheritance from Exception mandatory for exception types; see
Guido's 11 June post
    <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-June/036162.html>
for details.  (I have another idea involving a new special method
'__raise__', but haven't worked out the details yet.)

-- 
Steven Taschuk                                                   w_w
staschuk at telusplanet.net                                      ,-= U
                                                               1 1




From irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl  Tue Jul 15 14:15:24 2003
From: irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 20:15:24 +0200
Subject: A few beginning questions
In-Reply-To: <slrnbh8e1s.o6o.rmunn@localhost.localdomain>
References: <3f129a8a$1@mail.hmgcc.gov.uk> <2259b0e2.0307140930.4b3c43a5@posting.google.com> <ptkdj863.fsf@python.net> <bf0anc$9gch1$1@ID-141451.news.uni-berlin.de> <3f13bd77$1@mail.hmgcc.gov.uk> <slrnbh8e1s.o6o.rmunn@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <3f1444bc$0$49100$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

Robin Munn wrote:

> I'd suggest you try out is Vim (http://www.vim.org/). Its name stands

[...]

> Cons: It's vi. That means a pretty steep learning curve until you've
> gotten used to modal editing, where you go into "insert mode" to type
> text and go back into "command mode" (by hitting ESC) to move the
> cursor, copy and paste text, do searches, move text around, etc. Many
> people try vi and give up in disgust after five minutes.

Actually, moving the cursor around, erasing characters (del, bs) and
perhaps some other frequent actions *don't* require you to switch to
command mode in Vim...
So perhaps it is a lot less painful to start using Vim (compared
to a 'true' vi).

--Irmen




From michael at foord.net  Wed Jul  9 09:57:44 2003
From: michael at foord.net (Fuzzyman)
Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 14:57:44 +0100
Subject: Executables under Win32
References: <5vkngvs2epq6rv0a3rodeb839k5ls8bafj@4ax.com> <3F0BE70A.165B5274@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <2q7ogvksccj59kqmmed91u5ohqqvs2hhej@4ax.com>

On Wed, 09 Jul 2003 05:57:30 -0400, Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com>
wrote:

>Fuzzyman wrote:
>> 
>> IS there a tool to make Python Executables (binaries) under Win32...
>> or must people have a distribution of Python to use any scripts I
>> write ?
>> 
>> I don't need to hide my source code - but would liek to make it easy
>> for a newbie to use my scripts.
>
>(Excellently asked question!  We get this one often, but rarely so
>clearly. :-)
>
>There is py2exe and the Macmillan Installer, as well as some lesser
>known alternatives.  py2exe runs on Windows only, the other on Windows
>and Linux (at least).  A quick Google for either should get you there...
>
>-Peter


Many thanks :-)

Fuzzyman
---
Everyone has talent. What is rare is the courage to follow talent to the dark place where it leads. -Erica Jong
Ambition is a poor excuse for not having sense enough to be lazy. -Milan Kundera 

http://www.voidspace.org.uk 
Where Headspace Meets Cyberspace
Cyberpunk and Science Resource Site
Exploring the worlds of Psychology, Spirituality, Science and Computing
--
http://www.fuchsiashockz.co.uk
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/void-shockz
http://www.learnlandrover.com



From mal at lemburg.com  Tue Jul  8 15:53:42 2003
From: mal at lemburg.com (M.-A. Lemburg)
Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 21:53:42 +0200
Subject: parsing flat file to mssql (odbc)
In-Reply-To: <8db020b9.0307081101.23325bd@posting.google.com>
References: <8db020b9.0307081101.23325bd@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3F0B2146.3090803@lemburg.com>

.d.hos wrote:
> ok, fairly new to python, relatively familiar w/ ms-sql. here's my
> issue:
> 
> my .py script parses the contents of a (tab delim.) flat file, then
> attempts to insert the information into the db. I've been fighting
> this for a day or so, and i'm stuck on the db insertion...
> 
> basically the script uses .readlines() to capture the flat file
> contents, and stick the *record* into a container list...
> 
> something to the effect of:
> for l in lines:
>     fields = string.split(l,'\t')
>     dic.append(fields)
> 
> then, I just want to loop over that container list and do a simple
> INSERT statement. I've tried using the .executemany() method to no
> avail. .execute(sql, tuple) seems to be working better.
> 
> sql statement (lots of columns):
> ---------------------------------
> INSERT INTO tbl_pyDev
> (COURSE_SECTIONS_0,Term_1,Synonym_2,Section_Name_3,Location_4,Bldg_5,Room_6,
> Days_7,Start_Time_8,End_Time_9,Start_Date_10,End_Date_11,Add_Start_Date_12,
> Drop_Start_Date_13,Add_End_Date_14,Faculty_15,Short_Title_16,Prerequisite_17,
> Required_18,Coreq_Noncourses_19,Course_20,Cred_Type_21,SEC_CRS_DESC_22,
> Long_Title_23,Depts_24,Fee_25,Meeting_Days_26,Printed_Comments_27,Subject_28,
> Supplies_29,Transfer_Status_30,Course_Cost_31,Status_32,Capacity_33,
> COURSE_SECTIONS_34,Corequisite_Sections_35,Section_36,Min_Cred_37,
> Instr_Methods_38,SEC_FACULTY_FIRST_NAME_39,SEC_FACULTY_LAST_NAME_40,
> Refund_41,CoReq_Name_42,Drop_End_43)  values (?,?,?,?,?,?,?,?,?,?,?,?,
> ?,?,?,?,?,?,?,?,?,?,?,?,?,?,?,?,?,?,?,?,?,?,?,?,?,?,?,?,?,?,?,?)
> 
> ugly eh?
> well, here's an example of what I'm trying to feed this beast:
> (the first row of data is col. headers, and thy insert fine. This is
> actually the chunk of data the script is choking on (dic[1]))
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
> ('2475', '03/FA', '25000', 'AAA-010-AS01', 'AS', 'AS', '116', 'TTH',
> '05:00PM', '06:50PM', '09/09/03', '10/02/03', '09/09/03', '09/09/03',
> '09/26/03', 'Rameil, Lesley J', 'Aca Achieve Pre-College', '', '', '',
> '1139', 'UG', "Meets the requirements of the Comprehensive  Student
> AssessmentSystem and the Secretary's Commission on Achieving Necessary
> Sklls, as well as work and postsecondary enrollment skills.  Enabes
> the student to review and improve in reading, writing, matheatics,
> science, and social studies in preparation for the GED tst.",
> 'Academic Achievement in Pre-College', 'AAA', '', 'T', '', 'AAA', '',
> 'NT', '', 'A', '35', '2475', '', 'AS01', '1.00', 'LEC', 'Lesley',
> 'Rameil', '09/12/03', '', '09/26/03')
> 
> I'm executing in this sort of fashion:
> --------------------------------------
> for data in dic:
>      cursor.execute(insertSQL, tuple(data))
> 
> Error:
> ---------------------------------------
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "C:\Python22\parse_flat.py", line 101, in ?
>     cursor.execute(insertSQL, tuple(data))
> dbi.internal-error: [Microsoft][ODBC SQL Server Driver][SQL
> Server]Location:	 record.cpp:2253
> Expression:	 m_futureSize == 0 || rec.Size () == m_futureSize
> SPID:		 58
> Process ID:	 1136 in EXEC
> 
> so, if the column headers make into the db, it has to be the
> formatting of the following data?!?! single quotes?!?! i'm fried on
> this...if anyone has any input I would be very grateful.

Strange error message you have there...

Have you tried using mxODBC at this ? I'd bet you get much better
results.

-- 
Marc-Andre Lemburg
eGenix.com

Professional Python Software directly from the Source  (#1, Jul 08 2003)
 >>> Python/Zope Products & Consulting ...         http://www.egenix.com/
 >>> mxODBC, mxDateTime, mxTextTools ...        http://python.egenix.com/
________________________________________________________________________
2003-07-01: Released mxODBC.Zope.DA for FreeBSD             1.0.6 beta 1





From intentionally at blank.co.uk  Tue Jul 15 01:39:23 2003
From: intentionally at blank.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 06:39:23 +0100
Subject: anything like C++ references?
References: <qi13hv4s21i8mtr2e600jumm54hqs7tppu@4ax.com> <mailman.1058125699.26133.python-list@python.org> <sag3hv4vf884ed7ouu5cv8ofnopp9j1t12@4ax.com> <f0f51c80.0307132003.264b6894@posting.google.com> <7dc4hvslh7a8fk9p6cvsfqa1c8d44rmmnv@4ax.com> <f0f51c80.0307140649.61cc1fe2@posting.google.com> <41e6hvcl2q5bdjqlp30t1gfq42j2tgo4u4@4ax.com> <SDJQa.63050$N7.7668@sccrnsc03> <dsq6hv4vi1qhsksv56h8lqd7rlqh58ir05@4ax.com> <mailman.1058244265.22666.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <6j47hvk4levl583240qf4noi6nifemdcja@4ax.com>

On Tue, 15 Jul 2003 00:40:24 -0400, Jack Diederich
<jack at performancedrivers.com> wrote:

>Prof: No, you will know Him by his heresy, his name 'Stephen', AND his typing.

<g> so far...

>Prof: And pasties, he will definitely be wearing pasties.

Eh?

Has this got something to do with a Monty Python sketch?




From abcdebl2nonspammy at verizon.net  Fri Jul 18 01:20:37 2003
From: abcdebl2nonspammy at verizon.net (David Lees)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 05:20:37 GMT
Subject: Regular expression help
In-Reply-To: <bf7ugn$48l$0@216.39.172.122>
References: <LApRa.5420$Qe5.2628@nwrddc03.gnilink.net> <mailman.1058418746.16790.python-list@python.org> <EKKRa.5589$0F4.2536@nwrdny02.gnilink.net> <bf7ugn$48l$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <FsLRa.5854$0F4.3065@nwrdny02.gnilink.net>

Bengt Richter wrote:

> On Fri, 18 Jul 2003 04:31:32 GMT, David Lees <abcdebl2nonspammy at verizon.net> wrote:
> 
> 
>>Andrew Bennetts wrote:
>>
>>>On Thu, Jul 17, 2003 at 04:27:23AM +0000, David Lees wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>I forget how to find multiple instances of stuff between tags using 
>>>>regular expressions.  Specifically I want to find all the text between a 
>>>
>>>                                               ^^^^^^^^
>>>
>>>How about re.findall?
>>>
>>>E.g.:
>>>
>>>    >>> re.findall('BEGIN(.*?)END', 'BEGIN foo END   BEGIN bar END') 
>>>    [' foo ', ' bar ']
>>>
>>>-Andrew.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>Actually this fails with the multi-line type of file I was asking about.
>>
>>
>>>>>re.findall('BEGIN(.*?)END', 'BEGIN foo\nmumble END   BEGIN bar END')
>>
>>[' bar ']
>>
> 
> It works if you include the DOTALL flag (?s) at the beginning, which makes
> . also match \n: (BTW, (?si) would make it case-insensitive).
> 
>  >>> import re
>  >>> re.findall('(?s)BEGIN(.*?)END', 'BEGIN foo\nmumble END   BEGIN bar END')
>  [' foo\nmumble ', ' bar ']
> 
> Regards,
> Bengt Richter
I just tried to benchmark both Fredrik's suggestions along with Bengt's 
using the same input file.  The results (looping 200 times over the 400k 
file) are:
Fredrik, regex =  1.74003930667
Fredrik, no regex =  0.434207978947
Bengt, regex =  1.45420158149

Interesting how much faster the non-regex approach is.

Thanks again.

David Lees

The code (which I have not carefully checked) is:

import re, time

def timeBengt(s,N):
     p = 'begin msc(.*?)end msc'
     rx =re.compile(p,re.DOTALL)
     t0 = time.clock()
     for i in xrange(N):
         x = x = rx.findall(s)
     t1 = time.clock()
     return t1-t0

def timeFredrik1(text,N):
     t0 = time.clock()
     for i in xrange(N):
         pos = 0

         START = re.compile("begin")
         END = re.compile("end")

         while 1:
             m = START.search(text, pos)
             if not m:
                 break
             start = m.end()
             m = END.search(text, start)
             if not m:
                 break
             end = m.start()
             pass
             pos = m.end() # move forward
     t1 = time.clock()
     return t1-t0


def timeFredrik(text,N):
     t0 = time.clock()
     for i in xrange(N):
         pos = 0
         while 1:
             start = text.find("begin msc", pos)
             if start < 0:
                 break
             start += 9
             end = text.find("end msc", start)
             if end < 0:
                 break
             pass
             pos = end # move forward

     t1 = time.clock()
     return t1-t0

fh = open('scu.cfg','rb')
s = fh.read()
fh.close()

N = 200
print 'Fredrik, regex = ',timeFredrik1(s,N)
print 'Fredrik, no regex = ',timeFredrik(s,N)
print 'Bengt, regex = ',timeBengt(s,N)




From hokiegal99 at hotmail.com  Sun Jul  6 18:31:51 2003
From: hokiegal99 at hotmail.com (hokiegal99)
Date: Sun, 06 Jul 2003 18:31:51 -0400
Subject: Using Loops to track user input
In-Reply-To: <bea5r4$2nnlh$1@ID-130333.news.dfncis.de>
References: <bea0p6$17f$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <bea5r4$2nnlh$1@ID-130333.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <bea7oo$adc$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>

You guys are great! Thanks for all the examples.

Cousin Stanley wrote:

> hokiegal ...
> 
> Another way if you also wish to save the input numbers ...
> 
> nLoops    = 10
> 
> list_nums = []
> 
> for i in range( nLoops ) :
> 
>     this_num = int( raw_input( 'Enter an Integer :  ' ) )
> 
>     list_nums.append( this_num )
> 
> total = reduce( int.__add__ , list_nums )
> 
> print
> print list_nums
> print
> print total
> 




From harry.g.george at boeing.com  Thu Jul 10 10:45:57 2003
From: harry.g.george at boeing.com (Harry George)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 14:45:57 GMT
Subject: Securing PyDoc and CGIHTTPserver
References: <2621b014.0307100535.449ad06f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <xqxr84ysamy.fsf@cola2.ca.boeing.com>

schull at digitalgoods.com (Jon Schull) writes:

> PyDoc's author Ka-Ping Yee has suggested that PyDoc be patched to
> prevent access from unauthorized IP addresses
> (https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=305470&aid=672656&group_id=5470),
> and that without such a patch, its not " suitable for running on boxes
> that aren't behind firewalls"
> 
> It's hard to know how much to worry about such things (Comments?).   
> 
> However, even with the patch, IP addresses can be spoofed.  Here is an
> additional security tactic that might be adopted.
> 
> The port number used by pydoc is currently set by the user at the
> command line.  Many people probably use the example given in the
> python module documentation : "python -p 1234"    However, if the port
> were chosen at random and printed out, then only pydoc and the user
> would know how to access the pydoc server.
> 
> I'm considering a similar strategy for a server based on the
> CGIHTTPServer module, so comments would be welcome.

"Security through Obscurity" (e.g., random ports) is not the way to
go.  Instead, use SSL.  This can be done through a CGI on Apache
through an SSL'd port, or it can be done with stunnel.  [Or it might
even be done with raw python using pyOpenSSL or M2Crypto (which I
haven't done, so I can't tell you anything that direction).]


-- 
harry.g.george at boeing.com
6-6M31 Knowledge Management
Phone: (425) 294-8757



From doug.hendricks at tnzi.com  Wed Jul 16 21:54:55 2003
From: doug.hendricks at tnzi.com (the_rev_dharma_roadkill)
Date: 16 Jul 2003 18:54:55 -0700
Subject: Connecting Oracle8i to Python
Message-ID: <fb91dbec.0307161754.8a21bd0@posting.google.com>

Hello,
I'm a newbie to Python.  In order to get much use out of it at my
site, I must be able to connect it to Oracle8i databases.  I'm running
Python 2.2.2 on Tru64 (osf1 V5.1a).

First question:
What do you recommend?
DCOracle2?  Note that I am not running Zope or any other web software.
cx_Oracle?
Other?

Second question (important only if you recommend DCOracle2)
I can "make" DCOracle2, but I don't see any hints anywhere on how to
install it on a non-zope system.  If I try any obvious thing, like cp
-r to lib/python2.2/site-packages, at BEST I get:

> python
Python 2.2.2 (#1, May  9 2003, 14:15:51) [C] on osf1V5
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import DCOracle2
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
  File "DCOracle2/__init__.py", line 37, in ?
    from DCOracle2 import   *
  File "DCOracle2/DCOracle2.py", line 104, in ?
    import dco2
ImportError: dlopen: DCOracle2/dco2.so: symbol "OCILobIsTemporary"
unresolved

What is going on here?
I think that OCILobIsTemporary is supposed to be in the Oracle8i
client shared library, so maybe that library isn't getting loaded. 
What am I doing wrong?  I've tried playing with
LD_LIBRARY_PATH=$ORACLE_HOME/lib but nothing seems to work.  I've even
forced src/Makefile to include -rpath $ORACLE_HOME/lib .

I should point out that I have other non-python apps that can use the
oracle client library just fine, and
> nm libclntsh.so | grep OCILobIsTemporary
OCILobIsTemporary                | 0004396966856416 | T |
0000000000000008

Doug



From anton at vredegoor.doge.nl  Wed Jul 16 15:32:41 2003
From: anton at vredegoor.doge.nl (Anton Vredegoor)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 21:32:41 +0200
Subject: Confusing automated translators.
References: <37d6f77c.0307130932.1e3adf0d@posting.google.com> <3f11ac74$0$49101$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl> <ad052e5c.0307131718.4903430d@posting.google.com> <3F12808B.E53193B8@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <bf49ch$6n7$1@news.hccnet.nl>

Alan Kennedy <alanmk at hotmail.com> wrote:

>"Time flies like an arrow, but fruit flies like a banana".
>
>:-D
>
>I'd love to hear of other similar phrases. And somehow I intuit
>there's people in this ng who know lots of them :-)

I don't know about automated translators, but I dare any non Dutch or
German native speaker to interprete the following valid Dutch
sentence:

"Als achter vliegen vliegen vliegen vliegen vliegen vliegen achterna."

Anton



From bokr at oz.net  Fri Jul 25 22:30:01 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 26 Jul 2003 02:30:01 GMT
Subject: Why does Python do this?
References: <jnj2ivcfngh2qqhrdhe58nlsgspkjv1g57@4ax.com> <mailman.1059168399.19840.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bfsp39$mj0$0@216.39.172.122>

On Fri, 25 Jul 2003 15:22:13 -0600, Steven Taschuk <staschuk at telusplanet.net> wrote:

>Quoth Gre7g Luterman:
>  [...]
>> Python 2.2.2 (#3, Jun 16 2003, 19:11:56)
>  [...]
>> >>> class b:
>> ...   def __str__(self):
>> ...     print "printed"
>> ...     return "returned"
>  [...]
>> >>> print y
>>  printed
>> returned
>> 
>> Note the extra space printed when I executed the "print y" command.
>
>I don't know why this happens in 2.2, but I observe that it
>doesn't in 2.3.  Presumably some softspace fix has been made.

I argued hard that there was something wrong in

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=b952va%24hlt%240%40216.39.172.122&rnum=11

I wonder if those examples work now too ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From rreagan at attbi.com  Wed Jul  2 12:40:39 2003
From: rreagan at attbi.com (Russell Reagan)
Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 16:40:39 GMT
Subject: arbitrary long integer aritmetics
References: <bdtv1s$22dm$1@otis.netspace.net.au> <mailman.1057140372.20399.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bWDMa.86671$R73.10539@sccrnsc04>

"Fredrik Lundh" <fredrik at pythonware.com> wrote

> $ python
> Python 2.2
> >>> import sys
> >>> sys.maxint
> 2147483647
> >>> 2147483647 * 2147483647 * 2147483647
> 4611686014132420609L
>
> (note the trailing L).

Oddly, I get a different answer than you. What's the problem?

$ python
Python 2.2.3 (#1, Jun 19 2003, 12:10:13)
[GCC 3.2 20020927 (prerelease)] on cygwin
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import sys
>>> sys.maxint
2147483647
>>> 2147483647 * 2147483647 * 2147483647
9903520300447984150353281023L






From usenet_spam at janc.invalid  Fri Jul 25 22:10:48 2003
From: usenet_spam at janc.invalid (JanC)
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 02:10:48 GMT
Subject: Python and VS.Net
References: <mailman.1058934395.4215.python-list@python.org> <bflf99$aqd$1@slb9.atl.mindspring.net> <mailman.1058989177.1549.python-list@python.org> <bfo14i$ibh$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net> <ENVXDA58AA2A@envox.local.hr> <eik2ivkc0lk3rjpbtu9qge8dvospsilstt@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <Xns93C42A84622F4JanC@213.119.4.141>

Marc Wilson <marc at cleopatra.co.uk> schreef:

> Borland are said to be working on Delphi.NET

An "experimental" Delphi.NET compiler is included with Delphi 7.

-- 
JanC

"Be strict when sending and tolerant when receiving."
RFC 1958 - Architectural Principles of the Internet - section 3.9



From h.goebel at crazy-compilers.com  Mon Jul 28 06:47:36 2003
From: h.goebel at crazy-compilers.com (Hartmut Goebel)
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 12:47:36 +0200
Subject: Tokenize
In-Reply-To: <bfpd41$l82$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net>
References: <8%VTa.133$313.72262@news.uswest.net> <3F203257.AD0A4B30@hotmail.com> <bfpd41$l82$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <3f24ff48$0$12995$9b4e6d93@newsread4.arcor-online.net>

Andrew Dalke schrieb:

> Another option is the little-known 'shlex' module, part of the standard
> library.
...
> As you can see, it treats '-' unexpectedly (compared to the shell).

This is why shellword was written (see 
<http://www.crazy-compilers.com/py-lib/>)

Regards
Hartmut Goebel
-- 
| Hartmut Goebel               | We build the crazy compilers |
| h.goebel at crazy-compilers.com | Compiler Manufacturer        |




From castong at mathstat.concordia.ca  Wed Jul 30 12:46:43 2003
From: castong at mathstat.concordia.ca (Danny Castonguay)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 12:46:43 -0400
Subject: Syntax: pointers versus value
Message-ID: <3F27F673.3000801@mathstat.concordia.ca>

Simple question but I can't find the answer.  Using an example:

listA = [1 ,2]
listB = listA
listB.append(3)
#listA now is [1,2,3]

I want to avoid listA's value to change. Clearly, "listB = listA" 
creates the problem.  listB and listA become two pointers to the same 
object.  How then, do I duplicate the two objects; ie make a copy of the 
  object that listA is pointing to and have listB point to that object.

I'm new to python and I love it.

Thank you,




From paul at boddie.net  Mon Jul 14 12:31:10 2003
From: paul at boddie.net (Paul Boddie)
Date: 14 Jul 2003 09:31:10 -0700
Subject: Using  xml.xpath question.
References: <de5c7cc0.0307101347.2c707bf8@posting.google.com> <23891c90.0307110057.bbe91e3@posting.google.com> <cb035744.0307110917.7459191b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <23891c90.0307140145.8d9ff70@posting.google.com>

hwlgw at hotmail.com (Will Stuyvesant) wrote in message news:<cb035744.0307110917.7459191b at posting.google.com>...
> 
> A very nice and helpful Paul Boddie in action on c.l.p.

Glad to be of some help. ;-)

> But OMFG!

Object Management F<something> Group?

> Here we see why we need a good *high* level XML library in
> the Python Standard Library.  The effbot is doing great work with
> elementtree at www.effbot.org, but he is doing that all alone.  I
> think a good high level XML library should have a very high priority
> for Python.

This is argued for a lot, but I don't really see total acceptance
until the PyXML people get on board. They seem to be managing well
enough, and whilst one might argue that the PyXML APIs are too
highbrow for the rest of the community, no-one using PyXML for serious
XML processing is going to adopt the mythical "Pythonic" API that
everyone is talking about unless it does the business for them as
well.

> It should be a much higher priority for the core Python developers
> than the extensions I have seen lately.  Booleans, bah!

I don't want to get dragged into another debate on core language
enhancements. :-) I suppose once Python 2.3 is released, we may well
see more focus on the libraries.

> And for instance, I hate it to make my code unreadable using list
> comprehensions and other syntactic sugar; and then later having to
> explain it to a C programmer.  "Ha!" she says, "You claimed the Python
> language reads like pseudocode!".  Geez.

Actually, list comprehensions are very readable... to a mathematician.
Seriously, though, I'm using them a lot more than map/filter/reduce
these days, but I can't see a real need for the language runtime to go
beyond generators for the time being, although I'll surely get branded
as being "short-sighted" for saying that.

Paul



From maxm at mxm.dk  Wed Jul  2 02:28:28 2003
From: maxm at mxm.dk (Max M)
Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 08:28:28 +0200
Subject: Good code patterns in Python
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1057079642.5798.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1057079642.5798.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3f027b11$0$97204$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>

Michael Chermside wrote:

> Will Stuyvesant writes:
> 
>>If you know that your source code is going to be used
>>later by others, then I feel that code with the pattern:
>>
>>    if some_condition:
>>        some_name = some_value
>>    else:
>>        some_name = other_value
>>
>>is often a mistake.  Much better, safer, would be:
>>
>>    some_name = some_value
>>    if not some_condition:
>>        some_name = other_value
> 
> I disagree with you... I think that the first form is superior
> to the second. Here are two reasons.
> 
> My number one reason is readability. Seeing "some_name = some_value"
> when some_name is ACTUALLY going to take on other_value is very
> misleading to the reader.


If a programmer has a hard time reading the first version, he really 
should have another job ;-)

You cannot expect to know from any program what value a variable has 
from a cursory glance.

And there are many times where it is the prefered idiom. Like:


result = []
if something:
     result.append(stuff)
if something_else:
     result.append(stuff)
return result


Another example:


url = self.url
http = 'http://'
if url[:len(http) != http
     url = http + url
return url


The "first" form is not an unusual pattern to see in programmes. And I 
prefer it myself, as it prevents small stupid mistakes better than the 
"second" form.

The first form frequently mutates into nested code like:


if some_condition:
     some_name = some_value
else:
     if some_exotic_condition:
         some_name = other_value


Where it can be pretty obscure what value a variable has, and if it is 
assigned one at all.

And you have to make shure to set the "default" value in all itterations 
of the code.


if some_condition:
     some_name = some_value
else:
     if some_exotic_condition:
         some_name = third_value
     else:
         some_name = other_value


It would have been a simpler and less error prone procedure to change 
the code if it it had used the first form.


some_name = other_value
if some_condition:
     some_name = some_value
else:
     if some_exotic_condition:
         some_name = third_value


regards Max M




From abelikov72 at hotmail.com  Tue Jul  8 13:11:58 2003
From: abelikov72 at hotmail.com (Afanasiy)
Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 17:11:58 GMT
Subject: Python vs PHP
References: <mailman.1057574470.1750.python-list@python.org> <kmolgv4mp12o71ocion7ra0m2s9fcrqjdk@4ax.com> <slrnbglqp8.os1.jon+usenet@snowy.squish.net> <h7rlgvkogjr3t8geb36v6jjk4u5n9cdm2s@4ax.com> <slrnbgltd7.os1.jon+usenet@snowy.squish.net>
Message-ID: <moulgv8ehi6680j6to1ai6tlmopm0srons@4ax.com>

On 8 Jul 2003 16:47:35 GMT, Jon Ribbens <jon+usenet at unequivocal.co.uk>
wrote:

>In article <h7rlgvkogjr3t8geb36v6jjk4u5n9cdm2s at 4ax.com>, Afanasiy wrote:
>>>Try jonpy (http://jonpy.sf.net/), it solves all of the above.
>>>Also you may find FastCGI (which jonpy supports) helps with your
>>>"safe mode" problem, although it might require a bit of hackery.
>> 
>> No, CGI is not an option and I tried jonpy. I kept my notes about it...
>
>The only similarity between FastCGI and CGI is the name. FastCGI is
>just as fast, if not faster, than mod_python in my experience. jonpy
>lets you use CGI or FastCGI or mod_python interchangeably anyway.

CGI, FastCGI, SCGI are not faster than mod_python in my experience and
straightforward benchmark. That's all I can really say about it. CGI is
not an option for me.



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Thu Jul 17 14:23:50 2003
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 14:23:50 -0400
Subject: Python Quiz
References: <mailman.1058359706.27031.python-list@python.org> <bf3kb4$2gh$1@news.wrc.xerox.com> <3F156952.AD24AAB8@engcorp.com> <3f156c23$0$166$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
Message-ID: <X7ydnRCQKq4rdIuiXTWJjQ@comcast.com>

"Grant Edwards" <grante at visi.com> wrote in message
news:3f156c23$0$166$a1866201 at newsreader.visi.com...
> Yup. I found a lot of things in FORTRAN surprising.  Python is
> so much nicer in that respect.  Though I was recently surprised
> that the remove() method for lists uses "==" and not "is" to
> determine what to remove.  It's documented that it works that
> way. But, it wasn't what I excpected, and it took me a while to
> figure out that it was using my class's __cmp__ method rather
> than the object ID.

Given ints = [9, 99, 999, 9999] would it not surprise you even more if
ints.remove(99) worked and ints.remove(999) did not, or even worse, if
the behavior of ints.remove(99) depended on the implementation?
(Similar examples apply to strings, where the implementation of
interning and hence behavior based on identity *has* changed!)

Terry





From adechert at earthlink.net  Mon Jul 21 17:27:15 2003
From: adechert at earthlink.net (Alan Dechert)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 21:27:15 GMT
Subject: Voting Project Needs Python People
References: <LDVSa.14955$Mc.1126731@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <xqxwuebfyym.fsf@cola2.ca.boeing.com>
Message-ID: <TUYSa.15272$Mc.1131901@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>

"Harry George" <harry.g.george at boeing.com> wrote in message
news:xqxwuebfyym.fsf at cola2.ca.boeing.com...

> I was curious why http://www.notablesoftware.com/evote.html wasn't
> mentioned.  I had the impression that was an early (and continuing)
> portal for these issues.
>
Rebecca Mercuri and Peter Neumann are not part of this project.  I spent a
lot of time talking with Neumann 12/00 - 1/01 (met him in person 12/17/01 at
state Assembly Elections Committee hearings in Sacramento).   They have a
competing idea that would be much more expensive (dedicated DRE voting
machine with printer under glass so the voter can see it but can't touch
it).  Frankly, I don't see their idea going anywhere.

The serious competition we've had has been the Caltech-MIT project.  They
started with a grand idea but fizzled. At the top of the 12/14/00
Caltech/MIT press release about a "Uniform Voting System," the presidents of
MIT and Caltech were announcing "a collaborative project to develop an
easy-to-use, reliable, affordable and secure United States voting machine."
And they said, "America needs a uniform balloting procedure."

They certainly had the right idea, but I had already said the same thing and
had gone a step further to say that the machine should be PC based and open
source.  Part of the reason we had difficulty getting funding in 2001 was
because people told us (some important people, that is, holding some big
purse strings)  that they thought Caltech-MIT were already set to do what we
proposed.

However, it turns out that while they started with a great idea, the team
assigned to carry on the project never embraced the idea of a uniform
system!  They set about to work with vendors.  I don't know about you, but
it seems obvious to me that vendors would never really get behind a uniform
system.  Afterall, the way the make money is with proprietary systems that
compete with a bunch of other proprietary systems.  They each have their
niche.

Caltech-MIT underestimated the problem -- especially the political aspect.
I don't see their project going anywhere.  I mean, people can say I've
gotten nowhere in 2.5 years but I never had any money.  They had lots of
money but bad clues.

We don't plan to work with existing election vendors.  I see a new crop of
election vendors we can cultivate from PC remarketers.  25 million PCs are
retired every year in the U.S. and remarketers are always looking for ways
to get a few extra dollars for what they get for practically nothing.  I
have already contacted some remarketers and they like our idea.

For example, Jay at Isis Technology would love to become an election vendor.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2738670471&category=31502

> Is the intent to do opensource all the way to commodity chips?  Else a
> proprietary BIOS could be the weak link.
>
No, we won't go that far.  But we will have software to validate the system
on bootup.  Bennet Yee of UCSD is one of the leading experts on this
subject.

The Trusted Computing Group is also working on technology that may be
applicable:
https://www.trustedcomputinggroup.org/home

Alan Dechert






From bkc at Murkworks.com  Tue Jul 29 10:58:00 2003
From: bkc at Murkworks.com (Brad Clements)
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 10:58:00 -0400
Subject: Any Software can Python <-> Delphi ?
References: <bg2ul3$jvg6p$1@ID-142885.news.uni-berlin.de> <_icVa.1123902$ZC.164425@news.easynews.com> <3F2588C1.8FE0C79B@easystreet.com> <adaxg6gy.fsf@python.net>
Message-ID: <bg621i$218$1@main.gmane.org>

"Thomas Heller" <theller at python.net> wrote in message
news:adaxg6gy.fsf at python.net...
> achrist at easystreet.com writes:

> You could write a small, fake module importing the stuff that the
> library needs.  If you then run py2exe with the -k (--keep-temp) option,
> it doesn't delete its own build tree. You will find there a xxx.zip
> file, containing all the modules needed (plus a few scripts which you
> can ignore). If you use Python 2.3, just add the zip-file's name to
> sys.path, and you are done.

That's what I need too, thanks for posting this info.

I have an DLL that embeds and extends Python23.dll, but I want to package up
all the "standard python .py" as .pyo files in a zip and I'm looking for an
easy way to resolve imports. This looks like it will get me most of the way
there!








From manish.j at gmx.net  Fri Jul 25 16:24:48 2003
From: manish.j at gmx.net (Manish Jethani)
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 01:54:48 +0530
Subject: How to detect typos in Python programs
In-Reply-To: <3F214977.AEB088C8@engcorp.com>
References: <ZPaUa.6$gZ.133@news.oracle.com> <3F214977.AEB088C8@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <gwgUa.10$gZ.230@news.oracle.com>

Peter Hansen wrote:

> Manish Jethani wrote:
> 
>>Is there a way to detect typos in a Python program, before
>>actually having to run it.  Let's say I have a function like this:
>>
>>  def server_closed_connection():
>>    session.abost()
>>
>>Here, abort() is actually misspelt.  The only time my program
>>follows this path is when the server disconnects from its
>>end--and that's like once in 100 sessions.  So sometimes I
>>release the program, people start using it, and then someone
>>reports this typo after 4-5 days of the release (though it's
>>trivial to fix manually at the user's end, or I can give a patch).
>>
>>How can we detect these kinds of errors at development time?
>>It's not practical for me to have a test script that can make
>>the program go through all (most) the possible code paths.
> 
> 
> You have no good alternative.  Why do you say it's impractical
> to actually test your software before it's shipped?  Isn't it
> more impractical to rely on your users to test the software,
> thinking it should work?

I get your point.  But my program is basically open source, so I
release early and often, and I expect users to report bugs.  BTW
a lot of big software houses I know of also do the same thing,
but their marketing departments like to put things in a
different way ("time to market", "beta release", and stuff like
that :-) ).

Call my release an alpha, beta or whatever.  But I expect users
to report "real bugs", not typos.  So I thought there should be
a better way to catch these things (I saw pylint and pychecker,
and they look good).

> Unit testing in Python is *really* easy.  I can't think of any
> reason not to do it as the best way of catching problems like you
> show above.  If you resist :-), however, you might find PyChecker
> will help.  I'm not sure if it can do anything in the above case
> yet, however.

Actually I am writing a client app for a proprietary service.
The server is not under my control, so I can't make it behave in
a way that will cause every part of my client code to be tested.
As I mentioned, for example, I have a function to handle a
server-disconnect.  But the server rarely ever disconnects of
its own, so the function never gets called in reality.  Can I
unit test this function easily?

FYI:  The program in question is msnp.py.
<URL:http://msnp.sf.net/>

thanks,
-Manish

-- 
Manish Jethani (manish.j at gmx.net)
phone (work) +91-80-51073488




From P.Schnizer at nospam.gsi.de  Fri Jul  4 02:58:25 2003
From: P.Schnizer at nospam.gsi.de (Pierre Schnizer)
Date: 04 Jul 2003 08:58:25 +0200
Subject: how to pass a file descriptor in a swig module
References: <bdueu3$ddj$1@news-reader3.wanadoo.fr> <871xx82h0t.fsf@smtp.gsi.de>
Message-ID: <87k7ay3him.fsf@smtp.gsi.de>

Pierre Schnizer <P.Schnizer at nospam.gsi.de> writes:

> "kj.kjn" <kj.kjn at wanadoo.fr> writes:
> 
> > My function func(File * des) is embedded in a module swig.
> > 
> > I would to know how to call this function from python script and if it's
> > necessay
> > 
> > to declare a typemaps ?
> > 
> > Thank you

Sorry I think I misunderstood you. In case you want to pass a file to swig you
need a typemap:
<snip>
/* 
 * Type mapping for grabbing a FILE * from Python
 * Taken from the Swig documentation ... 
 */
%typemap(python,in) FILE * {
  if (!PyFile_Check($input)) {
      PyErr_SetString(PyExc_TypeError, "Need a file!");
      goto fail;
  }
  $1 = PyFile_AsFile($input);
}
</snip>

Please note that this typemap is for swig1.3. In case you are using swig1.1
you should replace $1 with $result and "goto fail" with return NULL (which can
leak memory ).

Pierre



From phil at riverbankcomputing.co.uk  Tue Jul 29 19:18:32 2003
From: phil at riverbankcomputing.co.uk (Phil Thompson)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 00:18:32 +0100
Subject: PyQt Help and Advice
In-Reply-To: <bg636k$408g$1@netnews.upenn.edu>
References: <bg636k$408g$1@netnews.upenn.edu>
Message-ID: <200307300018.32770.phil@riverbankcomputing.co.uk>

On Tuesday 29 July 2003 4:17 pm, Ilya Knizhnik wrote:
> Dear All,
>
> I am fairly new to Python.  I have found it an easy language to learn and
> a very usefull one for many tasks. Currently I am working on a python
> project that involves a GUI and it was suggested that PyQt is the best way
> to design that GUI.
> However since PyQt is rather new, I have not found much documentation on
> it, or examples in it.  The only useful tutorial/book I have found is at
> www.opendocspublishing.com/pyqt/ but it is not always clear for someone
> with almost no GUI experience.
> Does anyone have any suggestions?
>
> Ilya

To correct one misconception...

PyQt was first released on November 1st 1998. There have been 34 releases in 
all. The next release, including support for Qt v3.2.0, will be around August 
12th. It isn't new.

Phil




From bhv1 at psu.edu  Tue Jul 15 18:48:09 2003
From: bhv1 at psu.edu (Brian Victor)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 22:48:09 GMT
Subject: Distutils gcc error
References: <slrnbh3umq.tru.bhv1@pa-steclge-u3-c3b-133.stcgpa.adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <slrnbh9130.atf.bhv1@pa-steclge-u3-c3b-133.stcgpa.adelphia.net>

Following up to myself for googling purposes.

Brian Victor wrote:
> wxlibs = commands.getoutput("wx-config --libs")
> wxcxxflags = commands.getoutput("wx-config --cxxflags")
> 
> bwaaext = Extension("bwaascalec", ["src/bwaa.cc", "src/bwaascale.cc"],
>                     include_dirs=["src"],
>                     extra_link_args=[wxlibs],
>                     extra_compile_args=[wxcxxflags])

The compiler was taking the chunk of arguments returned by wx-config as
one large, nonsensical argument.  This is solved by using:

                    extra_link_args=wxlibs.split(),
                    extra_compile_args=wxcxxflags.split())

-- 
Brian



From duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk  Wed Jul 16 05:55:16 2003
From: duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk (Duncan Booth)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 09:55:16 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Python Quiz
References: <84fc4588.0307152253.20858619@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <Xns93BA6E5A0FA08duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

pythonguy at Hotpop.com (Anand Pillai) wrote in 
news:84fc4588.0307152253.20858619 at posting.google.com:

> Hi Pythonistas,
> 
> I have placed a quiz on Python on the trivia site www.funtrivia.com.
> Here is the link.
> 
> http://www.funtrivia.com/quizdetails.cfm?id=139672
> 
> Looks like it is the first quiz on Python on this site.
> 
> Please try it out if you like quizzing. 
> Let me know if there are any factual errors.
> 
I think that questions 4 and 8 leave something to be desired.

At this year's ACCU conference, Guido talked somewhat about the history of 
Python. He said it was based on ABC, "other influences: Modula-3, C/C++ and 
even Smalltalk, Icon, Pascal, Algol-68". By my reckoning that makes two of 
the answers to question 4 correct.

On question 8, I'm not aware that Python borrowed anything from Java. Since 
it predates Java he couldn't have borrowed anything on day one (does anyone 
remember when Guido first got the time machine working?[1]), although 
admittedly the language has evolved since then. I suspect the object 
oriented similarities come more from a common ancestry. At the same talk as 
above he listed Lisp as an anti-influence, so it isn't clear to me whether 
lambda &c. were borrowed from CLISP as you claim or from functional 
programming generally. OTOH I can't exclude Fortran as an (indirect) 
influence. If the syntax for assignment isn't ultimately borrowed from 
Fortran, where did it come from?

[1] First Python reference to a time machine I can find is Paul Prescod in 
April 1998 proposing its construction, although it was obviously fully 
operational by September 1998.

-- 
Duncan Booth                                             duncan at rcp.co.uk
int month(char *p){return(124864/((p[0]+p[1]-p[2]&0x1f)+1)%12)["\5\x8\3"
"\6\7\xb\1\x9\xa\2\0\4"];} // Who said my code was obscure?



From jcc at ibdosnorte.com  Thu Jul  3 07:17:00 2003
From: jcc at ibdosnorte.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Juan_Carlos_CORU=D1A?=)
Date: 3 Jul 2003 04:17:00 -0700
Subject: Automation wrapped xmlrpc Server
Message-ID: <a230569c.0307030317.62560e48@posting.google.com>

Hello all,

I'm trying to create a COM Server with an embedded xmlrpc server.

Here is way it must work:
- The client application (programmed with a COM capable language)
instantiates my COM server (programmed with python).
- The COM server must have a connect interface in order to let the
client application process the xmlrpc request.
- After executing a "serveforever" method on the COM server it begins
to listen on a configured port for xmlrpc requests.
- When the COM server receives a xmlrpc request it passes this request
to the client application event (connect interface) in order to
process it.
- The client application processes the request and returns a result to
the COM server. The COM server returns this result to the xmlrpc
requester.

So, I must say that I have programmed some COM servers in python with
the aid of Mark's book, but in this case I have some problems:
- Must I instantiate a new thread for the xmlrpc server?
- If the xmlrpc server is a different thread  how can this thread call
the _BroadcastNotify method from the main thread (the COM server)?
- I have successfully called the _BroadcastNotify method from the main
thread, but I become a strange behaviuor calling it from other thread.
- I tryied to pass the calling object reference to the xmlrpc thread,
so the xmlrpc thread has a reference to the _BroadcastNotify method,
but it does not work correctly.

Here is part of my code (I have deleted some parts):

class xmlrpcServer(Thread):
    def __init__(self, mainthread, host, port):
        Thread.__init__(self)
        self.host = host
        self.port = port
        self.mainthread = mainthread
    def run(self):
        while 1:
            # the following line simulates the reception
            # of a xmlrpc request
            request = xmlrpcRequest('testmethod', [n, 'parameter2'])
            wrapped = wrap(request, useDispatcher=useDispatcher)
            self.mainthread._BroadcastNotify(self.mainthread.NotifyCall,
                (wrapped,))


class COMServer(ConnectableServer):
    _public_methods_ = ['Serve'] + ConnectableServer._public_methods_
    _connect_interfaces_ = [IID_IxmlrpcEvents]

    def __init__(self):
        ConnectableServer.__init__(self)
        self.Host = ''
        self.Port = None

    def Serve(self):
        # method Serve
        #req = xmlrpcRequest('testmethod', ['parameter1', 23])
        #wrapped = wrap(req, useDispatcher=useDispatcher)
        #self._BroadcastNotify(self.NotifyCall, (wrapped,))
        #req = unwrap(wrapped)
        self._s = xmlrpcServer(self)
        self._s.start()

    def NotifyCall(self, interface, arg):
        interface.Invoke(1000, 0, pythoncom.DISPATCH_METHOD, 1, arg)

class xmlrpcRequest:
    # wraps a xmlrpc request as a COM object in order to pass it to
    # a client event
    _public_methods_ = ['Method', 'Parameter', 'Result']

    def __init__(self, method, parameters):
        self.Result = None
        self._method = method
        self._parameters = parameters



If I call the _BroadcastNotify method directly from the Serve method,
it works correctly.

Has anybody examples of a similar COM server?
Helps will be appreciated.

Thank you.



From bokr at oz.net  Thu Jul 31 18:37:25 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 31 Jul 2003 22:37:25 GMT
Subject: Python speed vs csharp
References: <rkdc7poiachh.1x4jtxjzaf3zo.dlg@40tude.net> <m3smonmcop.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <bgc5n5$8qs$0@216.39.172.122>

On 31 Jul 2003 08:29:26 +0200, martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-15?q?L=F6wis?=) wrote:

>Mike <mike at nospam.com> writes:
>
>> My first question is, why is the Python code, at 210 seconds, so much
>> slower?
>
>One would have to perform profiling, but in this case, it is likely
>because numbers are objects in Python, so each multiplication results
>in a memory allocation. In addition, as soon as the parameters of the
>multiplication are not needed anymore, you get a deallocation of the
>temporaries.
>
>There is also an overhead for the byte code interpretation, but this
>is likely less significant.
>
>> My second question is, is there anything that can be done to get Python's
>> speed close to the speed of C#?
>
>C# implementations typically do just-in-time compilation to machine
>code. They represent numbers as primitive (machine) values, directly
>using machine operations for the multiplication. Doing the same for
>Python is tricky.
>
>I recommend that you try out Python 2.3. It has significantly improved
>memory allocation mechanisms, so you should see some speed-up.
>
>You could also try Psyco, which is a just-in-time compiler for
>Python. It should give very good results in this case, also.
>
I just made a C extension out erfc and only got about 5-6 times improvement over the
python version, which makes me think that most of the time is in call setup and passing
parameters, which as you say involves memory allocation/deallocation.

I don't see that csharp could improve on that. The benefit would really only show up
fullfledged if the calling loop is using C calling methods, as in numeric array processing
that only makes one call from python and many in C, depending on arrary dimensions.

I wonder what it would take to have the Python VM do primary allocation of ints and doubles
on the stack C-style and only migrate them to heap if/when exported. Then you could
bypass exporting when calling a trusted C extension, and in a case like erfc
you could just make the raw C call and replace the value on top of the stack, and go on
from there until you hit an export trigger.

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Sat Jul  5 16:44:47 2003
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2003 16:44:47 -0400
Subject: Calculating Year, Month and Day of Life
References: <be72ph$k60$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <oP6cnXcXk6ddpZqiU-KYvw@comcast.com>

> My problem is that localtime is a list of 9 integers while age is a
list
> of 3 integers. Is it possible to make localtime() only return the
first
> 3 integers?

No, but you can easily slice out what you want -- localtime()[0:3] -- 
or wrap it with a function that does the same -- def localymd():
return localtime[0:3].

> If so, how would I then do calculations on the two lists'
> individual parts? For example, how would I instruct localtime() to
> subtract the first integer from age's list from the first intger in
its
> own list (2003 - 1934)?

The mathematical approach is to convert both ymds to Julian days and
subtract to get number of days of life.  But since 'month' does not
have a fixed number of days, it is hard to convert back to get the
commonly expected answer for (y,m,d)s of life.  So you need to do the
subtraction the way it is commonly performed or at least the way you
want it to be   (The problem is to figure out what to do when you need
to 'borrow' a month in order to subtract days.)

> Also, I am new to python, but I like it a lot and have picked it up
squickly

Welcome.

Terry J. Reedy





From matthias.oberlaender at REMOVE.daimlerchrysler.com  Wed Jul  2 07:53:10 2003
From: matthias.oberlaender at REMOVE.daimlerchrysler.com (Matthias Oberlaender)
Date: 2 Jul 2003 11:53:10 GMT
Subject: cooperation of buitlin methods usingtsuper
Message-ID: <bduh36$rgn$1@news.sns-felb.debis.de>

I would like  to adopt the cooperation paradigm in conjunction with builtin 
methods and operators, such as len, iter, +, * etc. 

But the direct approach does not work with the current implementation of 
super. For example, 'len(super(Y, y)' will always result in 'len() of unsized 
object'.

As far as I understand, this is because builtins don't use a dynamic lookup 
chain, but go directly to the slots for the builtins. However, super returns 
an instance of class 'super'. Since all super objects share this class,  its 
slots will not be filled as one might hope. 

My workaround is this: I create a subclass of 'super' on the fly each time I 
call 'mysuper'.  Look at the definition below.  It seems to work. But maybe I 
have overlooked something. Is my understanding correct? Is 'mysuper' a good 
solution? Possible improvements? (e.g. caching of subclasses)

Thanks for comments!


import new
 
class X(object):
  def __len__(self): return 2222

class Y(X):
  def __len__(self): return 1111

def mysuper(cls, inst):
  return new.classobj('mysuper', (super,) + cls.__bases__, {})(cls, inst)

y = Y()
try:
  print len(super(Y, y))
except Exception, msg:
  print msg

try:
  print len(mysuper(Y, y))
except Exception, msg:
  print msg

Output:

len() of unsized object
2222

-- 
 ____  __  _/_/ . 
( / / ( /  / / /  

=====================================================================
Matthias Oberlaender, DaimlerChrysler AG, Research Center Ulm
RIC/AP (Machine Perception)
Wilhelm-Runge-Str. 11,  P.O. Box 2360,  89013 Ulm, Germany
Phone: +49 731 505 2354       Fax: +49 731 505 4105
Email: matthias.oberlaender at VOID.daimlerchrysler.com
=====================================================================




From seberino at spawar.navy.mil  Thu Jul 31 18:42:47 2003
From: seberino at spawar.navy.mil (Christian Seberino)
Date: 31 Jul 2003 15:42:47 -0700
Subject: Python+GTK thread question (program freezing)...
Message-ID: <bf23f78f.0307311442.22aecf1b@posting.google.com>

We have a program that uses threads.  If we DON'T run the GTK+ GUI
code then multitasking is fine and every thread gets a little CPU time.

If we run a GTK+ GUI in the main parent process/thread then program
freezes.

The PyGTK commands called gtk.threads.thread_enter() and
gtk.gdk.threads_leave() are used to avoid conflicts caused by
two threads writing to GUI at the same time.  The disallow/allow
other threads to write to GUI as needed.

It would seem that the problem are with these two commands but
the guys cannot seem to find the problem.  As you know, threads
are not the easiest things to debug.

I don't want to think Python threads are unstable.
Are they??

Any ideas at all how to begin to solve this?

Chris



From skip at pobox.com  Mon Jul 28 08:31:16 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 07:31:16 -0500
Subject: The protection of resources
In-Reply-To: <sf24ea27.057@testmail.peto.hu>
References: <sf24ea27.057@testmail.peto.hu>
Message-ID: <16165.6036.893322.744042@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    Krisztian> So these my questions:
    Krisztian> - 1. How to use the py mutex object ? Please send an example
    Krisztian>      to me ! 

    Krisztian> - 2. Have the py an signal object ? (platform !!!) 

    Krisztian> - 3. Is any solution is a file locking.  Have the py a
    Krisztian>      possibility of exclusive file opening ?

Yes.  Look at the docs for os.open.  There's an EXCLusive flag which should
work on Windows as well as Unix I think.  This will work across processes as
well a threads, but see below if all you're interested in is a single
multi-threaded application.

I think you'll often find it easier to use the Queue object to protect
shared resources.  Just create the queue and put() the shared resource on
the queue, then get() it when you need it and put() it back when you're done
with it.

Skip





From giles_brown at hotmail.com  Thu Jul 10 03:50:53 2003
From: giles_brown at hotmail.com (Giles Brown)
Date: 10 Jul 2003 00:50:53 -0700
Subject: Deleting specific characters from a string
References: <begfb3$7j6$1@online.de> <5ab0af73.0307091044.254f5aab@posting.google.com> <donn-5F0489.12294309072003@nntp2.u.washington.edu> <behssg$k5l$1@online.de>
Message-ID: <57de9986.0307092350.a373dd0@posting.google.com>

Behrang Dadsetan <ben at dadsetan.com> wrote in message news:<behssg$k5l$1 at online.de>...
>  >>> str = 'You are Ben at orange?enter&your&code'
>  >>> str.translate(string.maketrans('',''), '@&')
>  and
>  >>> str.replace('&', '').replace('@', '')
> are also ugly...

Well beauty is in the eye of the beholder they say.
Has anybody mentioned the re module yet?

>>> s = 'You are ben at orange?enter&your&code'
>>> import re
>>> re.sub('[@&]', '', s)
'You are benorange?enteryourcode'

Giles



From garth at deadlybloodyserious.com  Wed Jul 30 20:28:20 2003
From: garth at deadlybloodyserious.com (Garth T Kidd)
Date: 30 Jul 2003 17:28:20 -0700
Subject: Ver 2.3 install over 2.2?
References: <mailman.1059585955.23944.python-list@python.org> <bg921r$9pt$05$2@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <4c877253.0307301628.7d73a1a6@posting.google.com>

> You have to reinstall all of them. Actually, you might need to rebuild 
> them, as extension modules need to be recompiled.

Make sure you have VC6 installed, else you'll be unable to build extensions 
for Python23. VC7 worked for building Python22 extensions, but no longer 
(and if anyone can explain why, I'd love to know). 

   error: Python was built with version 6 of Visual Studio, and 
   extensions need to be built with the same version of the 
   compiler, but it isn't installed.

I'm reinstalling 2.2.3 so I can keep developing with Reportlab until I can 
get hold of VC6 or a fix for 2.3.



From ulope at gmx.de  Tue Jul 22 15:41:57 2003
From: ulope at gmx.de (Ulrich Petri)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 21:41:57 +0200
Subject: Is there a way to access/modify/add variables to caller from a sub function
References: <3f5dc178.0307220913.62a7e92f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bfk427$fsgsm$1@ID-67890.news.uni-berlin.de>

"Anand" <anand_soliton at yahoo.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:3f5dc178.0307220913.62a7e92f at posting.google.com...
> Is there a way to access/modify variables of a caller function from
> within a sub function call?
>
> Function A:   Calls subFuncB:
>
> var x           Add var xx in Function A's name space??
> var y
> var z


def funcB(foo):
    return foo*1, foo*2, foo*3

def funcA():
    f1,f2,f3 = funcB(1)


Ciao Ulrich





From ray at rays-web.com  Thu Jul 10 19:50:16 2003
From: ray at rays-web.com (Ray Smith)
Date: 10 Jul 2003 16:50:16 -0700
Subject: Getting Started with python
References: <3f0d2cb9$1@news.comindico.com.au>
Message-ID: <5654fff9.0307101550.51012bf1@posting.google.com>

"Tony Steward" <tsteward at dodo.com.au> wrote in message news:<3f0d2cb9$1 at news.comindico.com.au>...
> Hello All,
> Ok i've decided to try Python can anyone point me at a simple demo of a
> windows program operating a database (maybe an address book) so I can see
> how it is done.

Hi Tony,

(From Euphoria fame???)

Your question is a good one but the answer probably isn't the one you want to
hear!!!

First there are many GUI libraries available and many database access 
techniques and libraries available.  I suggest you research each seperately.

For GUI the main ones seem to be Tkinter (comes with Python by default), 
wxPython (at wxPython.org) and PyQT (requires money for commercial use).

Everyone has their personal choice - I like wxPython.

Pretty well every DB available has a Python lib available to access them.
Most use the DB-API specs available at:
http://python.org/topics/database/

I persoanlly like pySQLite for the small single user projects.
Firebird, MySQL and Postrges(*nix only at this time) all seem like fine 
choices when more power is required. 

Searching the news group will find many many discussions in the past about
which GUI or DB library is best for different projects / people.
I search using google:
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&group=comp.lang.python


"If" your just learning Python I'd also suggest you look at some basic 
programming techniques before trying to write a full blown application.
I found "How to think like a computer scientiest with Python" as a good
freely downloadable book.
http://www.greenteapress.com/thinkpython/

To compare Python to Euphoria (assuming your the Tony i think you are!!) ...
I found Python a little more difficult to get to grips with as there are many
more options available, the biggest hurdle probably is deciding on which GUI
you will use, and then which DB you will use.

Let me know how you go.

Regards,

Ray Smith



From ianb at colorstudy.com  Thu Jul 10 22:07:22 2003
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: 10 Jul 2003 21:07:22 -0500
Subject: Securing 'pickle'
In-Reply-To: <pan.2003.07.11.01.20.47.998070@127.0.0.1>
References: <pan.2003.07.11.01.20.47.998070@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <1057889242.9505.1350.camel@lothlorien>

On Thu, 2003-07-10 at 20:20, David McNab wrote:
> I'm writing a web app framework which stores pickles in client cookies.
> 
> The obvious security risk is that some 5cr1p7 X1ddi35 will inevitably try
> tampering with the cookie and malforming it in an attempt to get the
> server-side python code to run arbitrary code, or something similarly
> undesirable.
>
> To protect against this, I've subclassed pickle.Unpickler, and added
> overrides of the methods load_global, load_inst, load_obj and find_class.

A much easier way to secure your pickle is to sign it, like:

cookie = dumps(object)
secret = 'really secret!'
hasher = md5.new()
hasher.update(secret)
hasher.update(cookie)
cookie_signature = md5.digest()

You may then wish to base64 encode both (.encode('base64')), pop them
into one value, and you're off.  Though I suppose at that point you may
be hitting the maximum value of a cookie.  Hidden fields will work
nicely, though.

Decoding and verifying is an exercise left to the reader. 

  Ian






From usenet_spam at janc.invalid  Tue Jul 22 22:56:11 2003
From: usenet_spam at janc.invalid (JanC)
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 02:56:11 GMT
Subject: [OT] SCO is Going After End Users
References: <4868482a.0307211336.4ca9493a@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <Xns93C13235CC9E1JanC@213.119.4.141>

clpy.NOSPAM at russellsalsbury.com (Russ Salsbury) schreef:

> ComputerWorld says that SCO is going to charge Linux end users a
> license fee for "the opportunity to run Linux legally."

This might be interesting "news" for SCO/Caldera:
<http://radio.weblogs.com/0120124/2003/07/18.html#a128>

Don't know how they can ask money for stuff one of their employees co-wrote 
& published under the GPL *with* their permission...  ;-)

-- 
JanC

"Be strict when sending and tolerant when receiving."
RFC 1958 - Architectural Principles of the Internet - section 3.9



From donn at u.washington.edu  Wed Jul 23 15:09:56 2003
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 12:09:56 -0700
Subject: How to disable spawnv's child process output messages
References: <db3b6d24.0307221808.54896699@posting.google.com> <1058938603.850678@yasure> <db3b6d24.0307231030.7dfa1b70@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <donn-62C163.12095623072003@nntp1.u.washington.edu>

In article <db3b6d24.0307231030.7dfa1b70 at posting.google.com>,
 nushin2 at yahoo.com (nushin) wrote:

> Hi Donn. Thanks for your response. Yes, in this case my parent process
> is hello_moon.py that is spwaning the child process, hello_earth.py. I
> am simply printing a hello world from each process and do not wish to
> see any output messages from the child process, and i *have to* see
> the output from the parent process, hello_moon.py
> 
> Could you please elaborate more on how i can use dup2( ) to disable
> the output of the child process spawned by spawnv( ) API?

It can't be done - as I said, spawnv can't do any kind of redirection,
and that is what it would take.

   Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu
-----------------------------------
> "Donn Cave" <donn at drizzle.com> wrote in message 
> news:<1058938603.850678 at yasure>...
> > Quoth nushin2 at yahoo.com (nushin):
> > | I have a program called hello_earth.py that is spawned by
> > | hello_moon.py, using spawnv( ) API as:
> > |
> > | os.spawnv(os.P_NOWAIT,'/usr/bin/python',('python','hello_earth.py'),('>/de
> > | v/null
> > | &'))
> > |
> > | I do not wish to see any output messages from the hello_earth.py when
> > | it is launched by its parent process and i do wish to see *only* the
> > | output messages from the parent process in the shell. Is Python
> > | capable to so such a thing?
> > 
> > What is the parent process in the shell?  You mean the one that calls
> > spawnv()?  If so - yes, Python can do that.  But not so easily.  You
> > can look at how spawnv is implemented (it's in Python), and read up
> > on the dup2 function (man 2 dup2) to see what's needed.  spawnv can't
> > do any kind of redirection.  I think I posted an example here a couple
> > weeks ago.
> > 
> > Or you can use the shell, more or less the way you were going but you
> > never invoked it -
> >   os.spawnv(os.P_NOWAIT, '/bin/sh', ['sh', '-c', 'python hello_earth.py > 
> >   /dev/null'])
> > 
> > which is really about the same as
> >   os.system('python hello_earth.py > /dev/null &')
> > 
> > 	Donn Cave, donn at drizzle.com



From mwh at python.net  Mon Jul 14 06:32:01 2003
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 10:32:01 GMT
Subject: anything like C++ references?
References: <000301c348c7$3c501980$21795418@dell1700> <mailman.1058062578.6658.python-list@python.org> <u432hvkg62vsoela63f45e5pj144ehf7qe@4ax.com> <mailman.1058097105.20488.python-list@python.org> <5tn2hvgjqlqg1qs7omvugpvm62cuso261k@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <7h3smp9o16l.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

Stephen Horne <intentionally at blank.co.uk> writes:

> On Sun, 13 Jul 2003 05:50:46 -0600, Dave Brueck
> <dave at pythonapocrypha.com> wrote:
> 
> >But the method for returning more than one thing is not a simple progression 
> >from this pattern. Instead you learn and shift to a *completely* different 
> >mechanism. In Python, however, you *can* continue along the original route as 
> >well:
> >
> >def foo(a, b, c):
> >  return a+b, b+c
> 
> You are not directly returning multiple values - you are returning a
> tuple. You can return containers in C++ too. The only difference is
> that Python makes working with tuples *much* easier - but its no more
> a 'simple progression' than in C++. You still need to know about
> tuples as well as returning values.

Actually, at one stage in Python's development it was almost
completely symmetric: you (always) passed in a tuple, and could
optionally return a tuple.  The syntax made it look a bit like you
were passing in multiple arguments, but under the hood a tuple was
what you were passing, and there were ways in which this showed up.
IIRC, 

    f((a, b))

and 

    f(a, b)

were indistinguishable from inside f.  This was all long before I came
across python, so I may be getting things mixed up...

Cheers,
M.

-- 
  Roll on a game of competetive offence-taking.
                                            -- Dan Sheppard, ucam.chat



From not.valid at address.org  Thu Jul  3 15:16:53 2003
From: not.valid at address.org (YoTuco)
Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 19:16:53 GMT
Subject: Py + CGI or other ?
References: <mailman.1057217825.2623.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Fi%Ma.15049$n%5.6073@nwrddc02.gnilink.net>

Krisztian Kepes wrote:

> Hi !
> 
> I want to substitute/replace my php site to python, 'cause
> I fall in love with Python, and not want to continue the work with php.
> 
> A question:
> - how to I make the change ?
> So, I  take an interest in Python+Web. Where I starting this learning ?
> 
> 1.
>  I use php used in module, not in cgi ?
>  The python can load to apache in module ?
> 
> 2.
>  Or I must create an CGI library ?
> 
> 3.
>  The BaseHTTPServer is good for starting an cgi development ?
> 
> 4.
>  Can the python handle the session of web browsers ?
> 
> 5.
>  Can the python access other db servers (not mysql) ?
> 
> Thx:
>  KK

I think www.python.org --> documentation and
http://www.python.org/topics/web/ has a lot of your answers.  

1. Yes, mod_python.  Compile Python with no threads.
2. That is one option. And I think there is a Python fast cgi module, too.
3. If it can do forms as a default, why not.
4. Don't know.
5. Yes





From csad7 at yahoo.com  Wed Jul 23 05:31:10 2003
From: csad7 at yahoo.com (christof hoeke)
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 11:31:10 +0200
Subject: python startup on XP very slow
References: <mailman.1058897976.5047.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bflkkt$t8s$04$1@news.t-online.com>

Tim Peters wrote:
> [christof hoeke]
>> for some days now i have problems with python taking a lot of time to
>> start up or run programs.
>
> What did you change on your system some days ago?  That is, things
> were fine, at some point they got worse, and what changed between
> those two times?
>
>> today i installed the python 2.3rc1 but still the same problem.
>
> That's just more evidence that it's got nothing in particular to do
> with Python.
>
>> e.g. starting pythonwin 1.53 on winXP (athlon 1200 with 512MB) which
>> normally took only a few seconds now takes at least 15-20 seconds.
>>
>> has anybody had a similar problem or knows where the delay comes
>> from?
>
> I don't, and don't know.  Common culprits for things "like this"
> include updates to virus scanners and firewall software -- anything
> that sticks its nose into other processes' business.  So you can try
> killing other processes, one at a time, and see how that affects
> Python startup time.

hi Tim,
thanks, i simply did not think... i have a virus scanner and firewall
installed which does frequent updates on it own. seems now it is blocking
python somehow.
if anyone is interested, i have BitDefender and Murphy Shield installed. if
Murphy Shield is turned off python is at its normal speed.

thanks again
chris





From gh at ghaering.de  Thu Jul 17 11:47:30 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 17:47:30 +0200
Subject: Unicode question
Message-ID: <3F16C512.2040503@ghaering.de>

 >>> u"???"
u'\x84\x94\x81'

(Python 2.2.3/2.3b2; sys.getdefaultencoding() == "ascii")

Why does this work?

Does Python guess which encoding I mean? I thought Python should refuse 
to guess :-)


-- Gerhard




From jepler at unpythonic.net  Sun Jul 13 12:32:39 2003
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 11:32:39 -0500
Subject: installing python library modules (general question)
In-Reply-To: <79ad5955.0307122013.6780fc53@posting.google.com>
References: <79ad5955.0307122013.6780fc53@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20030713163239.GC32319@unpythonic.net>

Add /usr/local/lib to the list of directories in /etc/ld.so.conf and
then execute /sbin/ldconfig to create some needed symlinks in
/usr/local/lib.

Jeff




From john_bradbury at ___cableinet.co.uk  Sun Jul  6 16:54:03 2003
From: john_bradbury at ___cableinet.co.uk (John Bradbury)
Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2003 20:54:03 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Server Push
References: <be2che$6ng$1@sparta.btinternet.com> <3f05b7ab$0$49103$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl> <CbtNa.5$Dj1.957478@newssvr15.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <bea29b$jte$1@titan.btinternet.com>

Thanks for the info, I will look into it.

"Van Gale" <news at exultants.org> wrote in message
news:CbtNa.5$Dj1.957478 at newssvr15.news.prodigy.com...
> Irmen de Jong wrote:
> > John Bradbury wrote:
> >
> >> I want to send updates from a long running cgi.  I have tried copying
> >> perl
> >> examples of server push and can not get them to work.
> >> Does anyone have an idiot proof example of a working server push or
> >> sending
> >> output in chunks in Python?
> >
> > to work). The other method is just flushing your output and
> > continue to write more data...
>
> I don't know the details, so this is hearsay, but there's another way
> apparently used by KnowNow (www.knownow.com) to implement a 2-way web
> interface.  Each browser page has 3 frames, one of which is hidden and
> is receiving non-ending Javascript from the server (which apparently
> modifies a visible frame as it comes it comes in).  This lets them do
> some slick things like auto-completion in web forms.
>
> (Apologies to John for not providing any actual help with this post :/)
>
> Van
>





From theller at python.net  Fri Jul 18 10:56:17 2003
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 16:56:17 +0200
Subject: A few beginning questions
References: <3f129a8a$1@mail.hmgcc.gov.uk> <2259b0e2.0307140930.4b3c43a5@posting.google.com>
 <ptkdj863.fsf@python.net> <slrnbhg160.1sg.rmunn@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <fzl3x4ry.fsf@python.net>

>>> optparse (a.k.a. optik) is great, whereas I never made my mind up to
>>> getopt. To "cure" getopt, I needed to define my own routines for
>>> argument parsing; after I started using optparse I had the satisfaction
>>> of erasing all of them ;)
>> 
>> I have not yet tried optparse. Is it able to parse Windows' style
>> command lines (use '/' instead of '-', ignore case of command line
>> options, use long options with a single '-' or '/')?
>> 
>> Thomas
>
> No. From the optparse documentation:
[snip]

> Is Windows-style arguments (with slashes) *that* important to you?
> Because there's absolutely nothing wrong with following the standard
> that's been established for over twenty years... :-)

You (or me, at least) have to follow the standard that is used on the
system where you work on. Well, sometimes at least.

Example: a localserver COM object is started with an /Automate command
line flag. And MS requires that the COM object registers itself when the
/RegServer or -regserver (case insensitive) options are used.

Anyway, I have my own w_getopt for windows now ;-)

Thomas



From bokr at oz.net  Sun Jul 13 18:46:41 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 13 Jul 2003 22:46:41 GMT
Subject: anything like C++ references?
References: <000301c348c7$3c501980$21795418@dell1700> <jf22hvotj4n0q5tpkg627e3jv61norf93n@4ax.com> <3F11106A.65FDA8F2@alcyone.com> <iqm2hvs77lhe1m71v9b579070khbf0uv0a@4ax.com> <berqqd$ad5$1@panix3.panix.com> <brs2hv8edfv0d1fch9mha8otuulajnkh0g@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <besngh$ohf$0@216.39.172.122>

On Sun, 13 Jul 2003 16:11:37 +0100, Stephen Horne <intentionally at blank.co.uk> wrote:

>On 13 Jul 2003 10:37:01 -0400, aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) wrote:
>
>>In article <iqm2hvs77lhe1m71v9b579070khbf0uv0a at 4ax.com>,
>>Stephen Horne  <intentionally at blank.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>One of the few things I hate about Python is that mutable objects are
>>>implicitly shared using a reference system whereas immutable objects
>>>are not. 
>>
>>Well, that's incorrect.  *ALL* Python objects are implicitly shared with
>>bindings.  The difference is whether updating the value referenced by a
>>target requires *re*binding the target or simply updating an object.
>
>Fine - nit-pick.
Well, it *is* a (very) significant nit ;-)

>
>All you have proven is that it is the distinction between types that
>get re-bound and those that don't (rather than the use of references)
>that is unnecessarily confusing and error prone.
I suspect you are reading some Python statements as if they were C or C++.

Python name assignment does not do anything to an object. It just creates
an alias name for an object. It may reuse an existing name, but that only
changes the meaning of that name as an alias, it does not affect the object
that the name was previously an alias for.

You can of course have other assignment targets than plain names. In fact,
a "plain name" is just the simplest expression for an assignment target.
But whatever the target expression evaluates to, what gets put "there" is
a reference to an object, not an object itself.

The confusion, ISTM, is in what to think of as "there." "There" is definitely
not a memory space for a Python object representation or "value". 

The most accurate (UIAM) C concept would be a "there" of type PyObject* -- i.e.,
a pointer variable that points to the representation of some kind of Python object.

We don't have to know the implementation details to use the idea that the left hand
side of a Python assignment is an *expression* (even if a single name) that yields
a place to put a reference (effectively a pointer) to the object created by evaluating
the expression on the right hand side.

A C programmer will tend to think that a symbol on the left is a static expression
indicating a specific fixed memory space (static address or stack frame offset). But in Python
it is first of all a dynamic expression (though an unqualified target name can only have its "there"
be in the local or global namespace, and the choice between those is made statically
(at least w.r.t. a given level of compiling/exec-ing).

In C terms, the Python assignment target expression always evaluates to a place to put a pointer,
never a place to put object representation bits. Of course, "a place to put a pointer"
may be *inside* an object. And such inside places are identified by target expressions
such as x[2] or x.a or x[2]().b[3] etc. Even a bare name really does identify a place inside
an object -- i.e., inside the local or global dict associated with the context.

The "place" identified by x= after a global x declaration (or just in global scope) will be the
same place as globals()['x']= unless someone has subverted something. Either way, the binding
of the name to the object happens by evaluating to a "there" within the global dict object,
uniquely associated with the name ('x' here). Evaluated on the right hand side, that name will
produce the reference/pointer again for use in accessing the object or copying to another "there"
associated with perhaps some other name or a target within a composite object like a list or tuple,
or other namespace dict.

>
>The wart remains, even if my description was wrong. And even that is a
>dubious claim.
>
Every assignment is effectively stores a referential alias for an object,
whether associated with a name or not. This is by design, not a wart.

>A Python user is interested in how an object behaves - not how it is
>internally implemented in the interpreter. Immutable objects don't
when you say "immutable objects," are you really speaking of names
bound to immutable objects? I.e., the integer 123 is an immutable object
represented by the literal 123. You get an immutable object of the same value
from the expression int('123'). These are the int *objects* -- how does
"behave as references" apply to these actual "immutable objects"?
I.e., could you rewrite your sentence (that this is breaking in two)
to make it perhaps more understandable for me ?;-)

Names are not objects. Nor are left-hand-side assignment target expressions
in general, whether bare names or complicated.

ISTM what you are discussing is not about objects but about the way names work,
and ISTM you are thinking of names as if they were C++ variable references,
which they are not, and they couldn't be. For one thing, a C++ reference type
has to be initialized once to refer to a specific object. It can't be made to
refer to something else during the life of that scope. Pointers are a better
model, since you have to distinguish by expression syntax whether you mean
to assign a new pointer value or modify the thing pointed to. In python you
can only assign pointers, if you want to think in those terms. When you
modify a mutable, you are still assigning pointers into some part of the
mutable object representation. When you assign to a bare name, you are still assigning
a pointer into a place in some dictionary object (or workalike). If you
want to modify an object in the usual C sense, you can code it in C and provide a
python interface to your C-implemented object. When you pass arguments
to the various methods of your mutable, you will get pointers that you
can dereference and you can do what you want to your mutable's C data representation.
But when you pass the result back to the python world, it will have to be
as a standard object reference/pointer, and if you assign that, you will be
storing a pointer somewhere.

>behave as references - the internal use of references for immutable
>objects is basically a lazy copying optimisation and, apart from
>performace and a couple of other technicalities (e.g. the 'is'
>operator), has no relevance. Certainly it has no relevance to the
>point I was making.
>
The way it works is part of the semantics of the language, not just
an optimization issue.

Names aren't variables.

HTH ;-)

<disclaimer>I sometimes get things wrong. Corrections welcome.</disclaimer>

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From dave at pythonapocrypha.com  Thu Jul 17 17:38:35 2003
From: dave at pythonapocrypha.com (Dave Brueck)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 15:38:35 -0600
Subject: wxPython questions
In-Reply-To: <vhe347qgm74ub5@corp.supernews.com>
References: <vhe347qgm74ub5@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <200307171538.35820.dave@pythonapocrypha.com>

On Thursday 17 July 2003 02:52 pm, Edward K. Ream wrote:
> How reliable is wxPython? This is the big one.

At my company we use it in one of our production applications on Win98/2k/XP 
and haven't had any crashes reported. We can get it to crash in development 
pretty easily, but it's usually when we're doing something iffy. YMMV of 
course, and maybe our users just don't report crashes. :)

> How difficult is it in practice to get all the
> core dumps out of a medium-sized wxPython app?

For us there hasn't been any "special" or additional work in this area - IOW 
debugging GUI problems and flakiness seems to have been on par with debugging 
problems and flakiness in the rest of the app.

> Presumably many of the wxWindows helper classes aren't needed in wxPython.
> Besides the actual widget classes, what other wxWindows classes must a
> wxPython app use?  Any others besides wxColor, wxIcon and wxFont?  What
> about strings?  I'd much rather use Python strings instead of wxString.

I can't think of too many off the top of my head. Generally, if Python has an 
easier way to do something then the Python way works in wx. For example, you 
don't have to use the wxSize class since you can always just use an (x,y) 
tuple (maybe there's an exception to that rule, but I haven't seen it yet). 
Ditto for strings. Also, if you look in the wxWindows help files there's 
often a Python-only variation of APIs to make them more Pythonic.

> Is it possible to have an app that creates multiple windows without using
> wxDoc and allies? 

You can create as many top-level windows (wxFrames) as you want, if I 
understand you correctly, and they can be hidden or visible.

> My app presently creates a hidden TK root window, and
> manages all other Tk windows by hand.  Is something like this possible in
> wxPython?

At least on Windows, yes. I assume it's the same in other OS's too.

-Dave

P.S. There's a wxPython mailing list you may find more useful - check 
wxPython.org for details.




From fredrik at pythonware.com  Fri Jul  4 09:42:29 2003
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 15:42:29 +0200
Subject: bug in Tkinter? invalid literal for int() line 1035
References: <newscache$6z3ihh$1ph$1@cache3.nc3a.nato.int>
Message-ID: <be4075$e4b$1@main.gmane.org>

Ton K. wrote:

> I get subject when binding <Button-1> to a listbox.
> The value for h is '??' which triggers the error.
> I'm running Python 2.2.2 from SuSE.

you're using a version of Tk that's newer than your Tkinter; that "??"
you're seeing how really recent versions of Tk represent an "undefined
integer value"...

this has been fixed in Python 2.3, so you can either upgrade Python
or link against an older Tk.

(or modify Tkinter.py slightly, adding try/except clauses around the
problem spots in Tkinter.py)

</F>







From tjreedy at udel.edu  Sat Jul 12 15:27:20 2003
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 15:27:20 -0400
Subject: Any pure-python relational databases?
References: <pan.2003.07.12.14.11.19.428895@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <D-ecnUrwA7CE_I2iXTWJig@comcast.com>

"David McNab" <postmaster at 127.0.0.1> wrote in message
news:pan.2003.07.12.14.11.19.428895 at 127.0.0.1...
> The server runs Python 1.5.2,

> The web host is my client's choice, not mine, and there's very
little
> prospect of getting them to upgrade their python or install
mysql-python.

In 1999, Guido posted to c.l.py: "On April 13, the *final* version of
Python 1.5.2 was released." [*emphasis* added]

How much untouched-in-four-years software does your client depend on
for critical business processes, one might wonder ;-)

IE4?  Win98SE without Y2K + security upgrades?  Win95 last updated
four years ago?

If you want to discuss this with your clients, you can point out that
just as IE6 does not run (or even install) on Win95, there are many
Python modules that do not run on Python 1.X, and for much the same
reason.

Good luck.

Terry J. Reedy





From john_bradbury at ___cableinet.co.uk  Thu Jul  3 18:59:58 2003
From: john_bradbury at ___cableinet.co.uk (John Bradbury)
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 22:59:58 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Server Push
Message-ID: <be2che$6ng$1@sparta.btinternet.com>

I want to send updates from a long running cgi.  I have tried copying perl
examples of server push and can not get them to work.
Does anyone have an idiot proof example of a working server push or sending
output in chunks in Python?
Thanks
John Bradbury





From Nike/FNX at fnx.com  Thu Jul  3 15:23:43 2003
From: Nike/FNX at fnx.com (Nike)
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 15:23:43 -0400
Subject: Report to Sender
Message-ID: <OF5FC14338.FF188926-ON85256D58.006A8AD1@fnx.com>

Incident Information:-

Database:   F:/Lotus/Domino/Data/mail3.box
Originator: python-list at python.org
Recipients: <abigail at fnx.com>
Subject:    Re: Movie
Date/Time:  07/03/2003 03:23:28 PM

The file attachment your_details.zip you sent to the recipients listed
above was infected with the W32/Sobig.e at MM virus and was not successfully
cleaned.





From bokr at oz.net  Mon Jul 28 14:06:14 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 28 Jul 2003 18:06:14 GMT
Subject: freeze or something else for stand-alone-bins
References: <f0c1dfd.0307280529.6a145ab5@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bg3omm$c8q$0@216.39.172.122>

On 28 Jul 2003 06:29:23 -0700, ffrederik at gmx.de (Frederik) wrote:

>Hello,
>
>in Python 2.2.2 on Windows I cant find the freeze.py program anymore.
>On my Linux-machine it?s still in tools - examples. Where can I find
>it? Or can you recommend me anything else for creating
>stand-alone-binaries?
>
It seems to be in the 2.2.2 source distribution for windows.
Can't say more, since I haven't used it.

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From skip at pobox.com  Mon Jul 28 08:36:43 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 07:36:43 -0500
Subject: List of all python magic numbers?
In-Reply-To: <3f24fb20$0$6758$9b4e6d93@newsread2.arcor-online.net>
References: <3f24fb20$0$6758$9b4e6d93@newsread2.arcor-online.net>
Message-ID: <16165.6363.859595.738777@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    Hartmut> I'm looking for a list of all Python Magic Numbers and the
    Hartmut> related Python version -- starting a the last byte-code change
    Hartmut> towards 1.5. This should make 'decompyle' work with less
    Hartmut> problems.

Take a look at the top of Python/import.c

Skip




From lists at gregfortune.com  Tue Jul 15 20:26:07 2003
From: lists at gregfortune.com (Greg Fortune)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 17:26:07 -0700
Subject: PyQT, Sharp Zaurus and color in the QTextBrowser
References: <slrnbh60lj.3jm.sybrenUSE@sybren.thirdtower.com> <mailman.1058214925.28095.python-list@python.org> <slrnbh90ee.8j9.sybrenUSE@sybren.thirdtower.com>
Message-ID: <rP0Ra.3176$Jk5.1958269@feed2.centurytel.net>

Are you intended on releasing the source for this?  If so, dump something up
there so we can play ;o)

Greg Fortune

Sybren Stuvel wrote:

> Tim Gerla enlightened us with:
>> Very fun stuff. Someday I hope to have a Zaurus or similar device to
>> toy with.
> 
> For those interested: I've put up some screenshots of my jabber client,
> Discuss Jabber, at http://zaurus.thirdtower.com/
> 
> Sybren




From skip at pobox.com  Thu Jul 24 15:36:45 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 14:36:45 -0500
Subject: [newbie] MySQL : How to check if no row returned?
In-Reply-To: <5ua0ivcl3loh45cq6pnoimsoa86nt0q4db@4ax.com>
References: <5ua0ivcl3loh45cq6pnoimsoa86nt0q4db@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <16160.13645.496975.635058@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    Jane> I browsed through the archives of this site, but I didn't see how
    Jane> to check if a SELECT through the MySql module returns an empty set
    Jane> (whether a row exists or not, the "else" part below is always
    Jane> called).

The return value of the cursor's execute method indicates how many rows were
selected:

    >>> import MySQLdb
    >>> conn = MySQLdb.Connection(...)
    >>> curs = conn.cursor()
    >>> print curs.execute("select * from cities where city like 'San %'")
    51
    >>> rows = curs.fetchall()
    >>> print len(rows)
    51

Skip




From Juha.Autero at iki.fi  Wed Jul  2 11:27:46 2003
From: Juha.Autero at iki.fi (Juha Autero)
Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 18:27:46 +0300
Subject: os.fork() different in cgi-script?
References: <bdudn2$11c3gt$1@fu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <87fzlpdk3x.fsf@jautero.no-ip.org>

"Andreas Kuntzagk" <andreas.kuntzagk at mdc-berlin.de> writes:

> So it looks the main() is run 2 times. 
> Is it so? And if yes, why?

No, it isn't. The problem is that Python uses C STDIO library that has
buffered input and output. The text written in stdout is written in
buffer. Since child process created by fork() is almost identical to
parent process, it will also have a copy of stdout buffer. When
process exits, it closes stdout, which flushes the buffer. So, both
buffers are written to stdout and that causes everything to be printed
twice.

The reason why this doesn happen on command line is that buffers to
terminals are flushed after newline. You can see that by redirecting
script output to file:

$ python script.py >output
$ cat output
Content-Type: text/plain


4309
Content-Type: text/plain


4309

> I googled for this but only found a similar question from 1997 and no
> answer.

Which is strange since this common problem and has nothing to do with
Python.
-- 
Juha Autero
http://www.iki.fi/jautero/
Eschew obscurity!





From donn at drizzle.com  Tue Jul 15 00:18:18 2003
From: donn at drizzle.com (Donn Cave)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 04:18:18 -0000
Subject: cgi-tb after os.chdir
References: <2621b014.0307141140.650a234a@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1058242697.153569@yasure>

Quoth schull at digitalgoods.com (Jon Schull):
| I find that cgitb fails to show error context if I've changed my
| default directory, so I tried to subclass cgitb and get it to save the
| directory we were in when the program started.  Didn't work.  I'd
| appreciate your eyes.
|
| Problem--this apparently fails to find my sourcefile when #os.chdir is
| uncommented from this cgi program
| .........................
|
| #! /usr/local/bin/python 
| import cgitb
| cgitb.enable()
|
| import os
| #os.chdir('../')
| 1/0
| .........................
| What I thought would work:
| .........................
| from cgitb import Hook
| import os
| import sys
|
| class myHook(Hook):
| 	def __init__(self, display=1, logdir=None, context=5,
| file=None,wkdir='xx'):
| 		self.wkdir=wkdir
| 		Hook.__init__(self, display=1, logdir=None, context=5, file=None)
|
| 	def handle(self, info=None):
| 		os.cwd(self.wkdir)
| 		Hook.handle(self,info)
|
| handler = myHook().handle
| def enable(display=1, logdir=None, context=5):
| 	wkdir=os.getcwd()
| 	sys.excepthook = myHook(display, logdir, context,wkdir=wkdir)
|
| .........................
| But in fact, my exception handler doesn't even seem to get installed.
| (I get python's usual tracebacks)
|
| I'm probably over my head here, but...

Not too badly, I think.

| What's wrong with the program where I attempt to subclass myHook?

Hm, did you call your enable() function?  Looks to me like the
handler = ... line is a decoy that doesn't do anything, incidentally.
If it were up to me, I might be tempted to make enable() a method
of the Hook class, only for convenience though.

| Is this a reasonable way to get cgitb to survive directory changes?

Yes, it could work.  I would use chdir() instead of cwd(), when
returning to the original working directory.  As you have probably
already found out, chdir also can compromise module imports;  if
your only problem is the quality of tracebacks, you're getting off
easy.

	Donn Cave, donn at drizzle.com



From noah at noah.org  Sun Jul 13 13:21:56 2003
From: noah at noah.org (Noah)
Date: 13 Jul 2003 10:21:56 -0700
Subject: anything like C++ references?
References: <13t0hvsb7idh0g6ac3upe5k0qd6flc17ah@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <c9d82136.0307122236.1b72425e@posting.google.com>

Tom Plunket <tomas at fancy.org> wrote in message news:<13t0hvsb7idh0g6ac3upe5k0qd6flc17ah at 4ax.com>...
> I want to do something along the lines of the following C++ code:
> 
> void change(int& i)
> {
>    i++;
> }
> 
> 
> Is there any way to do references like this in Python?  It'd be
> like this, though clearly this doesn't change the thing I want it
> to change:
> 
> def change(val):
>    val += 1
> 
> v = 0
> change(v)
> 
> # v == 1 now.
> 
> thanks.
> 
> I can see that maybe if I passed in a list of one integer I could
> change that, but that seems circuitous to me.
> 
> 
> -tom!

As others have explained, you just return the value.
It's just a different point of view. Instead of
    change (v)
you have:
    v = change (v)

I was a C++ programmer in a former life and I remember being
annoyed at the lack of references in Python -- I mean, why would
something so obvious and cool as a reference variable be excluded, right?
Where people usually find themselves wanting references is 
when they need to modify more than one value at once.
For example, consider a function to rotate a 3D point through 
two angles, where x,y,z get modified by the rotate function:
    rotate (x,y,z, theta, phi)
Here you just have to remember that Python can return more than one
value at once as a tuple. So you should expect the code to look like this:
    x,y,z = rotate (x,y,z, theta, phi)
Your rotate() function would return a simple tuple as:
    return (x,y,z)

After I unlearned the C++ idiom I decided I liked the Python idiom better.
It's a teensy bit more verbose, but it is far more clear as to what
is going on. Your inputs and output are clearly defined. With C++ references
you have to look up the function definition to know which variables in modified.

Yours,
Noah



From grante at visi.com  Wed Jul 23 15:52:31 2003
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 23 Jul 2003 19:52:31 GMT
Subject: How to do raw Ethernet under Win32?
References: <3f1ed31a$0$181$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
Message-ID: <3f1ee77f$0$160$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>

In article <3f1ed31a$0$181$a1866201 at newsreader.visi.com>, Grant Edwards wrote:

> How does one do raw Ethernet under Win32?  Ultimately, I want
> to do it in a Python program, but if somebody can point me to a
> clue on how to do it from C, I could probably figure out the
> rest.

It looks like I can _almost_ do what I want with the python
wrapper around the windows pcap lib.  WinPcap has a
sendpacket() funcation which doesn't seem to be made visible by
the Windows version of pylibpcap, so that's something I'll have
to look into.

It's probably not the optimal way to receive packets, but I
only have to do a few.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  My DIGITAL WATCH
                                  at               has an automatic SNOOZE
                               visi.com            FEATURE!!



From peter at engcorp.com  Wed Jul 16 08:47:45 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 08:47:45 -0400
Subject: Python Quiz
References: <84fc4588.0307152253.20858619@posting.google.com> <Xns93BA6E5A0FA08duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <3F154971.470FE84A@engcorp.com>

Duncan Booth wrote:
> 
> [1] First Python reference to a time machine I can find is Paul Prescod in
> April 1998 proposing its construction, although it was obviously fully
> operational by September 1998.

Obviously the first thing the PSU did after obtaining the time machine
was to travel back to pre-1998 to eliminate records of its actual prior
invention, as well as those who knew anyth



From frobozz_electric at hotmail.com  Wed Jul  9 11:34:51 2003
From: frobozz_electric at hotmail.com (Sean Ross)
Date: 9 Jul 2003 15:34:51 GMT
Subject: OT: Genetic Algorithm Recipe Bug Fix
References: <JwYMa.5801$eF3.719843@news20.bellglobal.com> <beh8ad$dm0$1@news.hccnet.nl> <behbll$or0$1@driftwood.ccs.carleton.ca>
Message-ID: <behcmr$68s$1@driftwood.ccs.carleton.ca>

If you find further issues with the code please email me directly, I'd
prefer not to clutter this forum any more than I have already. I can be
reached at sross at connectmail.carleton.ca until January 2004.





From davidcfox at post.harvard.edu  Tue Jul 22 11:03:11 2003
From: davidcfox at post.harvard.edu (David C. Fox)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 15:03:11 GMT
Subject: detecting containers during object introspection
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1058869419.12844.python-list@python.org>
References: <woVSa.102913$sY2.46301@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net> <mailman.1058834074.20023.python-list@python.org> <DF2Ta.116099$N7.15785@sccrnsc03> <mailman.1058869419.12844.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <PmcTa.110138$sY2.48680@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net>

Steven Taschuk wrote:
> Quoth David C. Fox:
>   [...]
> 
>>However, the real problem occurs if the developer makes a change like 
>>this (or even just adds a new attribute which is a non-standard 
>>container), and does increment the version number.  Because the version 
>>number was incremented, the regression test would *expect* some of the 
>>dictionary elements to change type or structure, and would simply update 
>>the standard example dictionary.  Then, any *subsequent* changes to the 
>>structure of the values in that container would go undetected (unless 
>>the developer had also updated the recursive comparison operation to 
>>take into account that the unknown object was a container).
> 
> 
> Yes, I see.  Thorny.
> 
> What if your recursive comparison operation choked on values of
> unknown types rather than falling back on the weak "have same
> type" criterion?  That way, the developer who changes the
> structure by introducing values of (e.g.) a new dict work-alike
> type would see tests fail, which would remind her to add to that
> comparison operation the necessary knowledge of the new type.
> 
> Fail safe, in other words, where "safe" means "no false positives
> from the regression test".
> 

That's one possibility.  My original reaction to it was that requiring 
developers to write comparison operations for every class whose 
instances are found in the stored dictionary seemed like overkill.  Then 
I started think about what classes actually were found there.  Many of 
them contain lists or dictionaries, and changes to the internal 
structure of those classes would cause the same problems described 
above.  Therefore, just noting that the old and new versions had an 
attribute with the same class wouldn't be sufficient.

Then, I recalled that any object instance *has* a dictionary of 
attributes: __dict__.  So, instead of writing custom comparison 
operators for each class, I should be able to define a generic 
comparison operator cmp_struct(x, y) which returns true iff

1) type(x) == type(y), and

2) one of the following is true:
    a) type(x) == type({}), and
       x.keys() and y.keys() match, and
       for each key, cmp_struct(x[key], y[key]) is true
    b) type(x) == type([]), and
       for each pair of items in x and y, cmp_struct returns true
    c) type(x) == types.InstanceType, and
       cmp_struct(x.__dict__, y.__dict__) is true
    d) type(x) is not any of the above

Thanks for your advice.  It is really nice to have someone to bounce 
ideas off of.

David




From pete at shinners.org  Thu Jul  3 12:06:25 2003
From: pete at shinners.org (Pete Shinners)
Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 09:06:25 -0700
Subject: Reading an image file data.........
In-Reply-To: <20030703134941.15069.qmail@webmail26.rediffmail.com>
References: <20030703134941.15069.qmail@webmail26.rediffmail.com>
Message-ID: <be1kd1$hho$1@main.gmane.org>

Suresh Kumar wrote:
>   I scanned a page of my textbook and stored as a JPEG file. Now i want 
> to read a text from the JPEG image which is at some location, say from 
> (100,100) to (300,300). How can i read it? I am using PIL module for 
> image handling and tkinter. Moreover i am new to PIL module.  Is it 
> possible to read a text from a JPEG file in python/tkinter?

what you want is a process called OCR (i think it means optical 
character recognition, or something like that). it is the process of 
translating an image into plain text. it looks like on linux you have 
'clara', and 'gocr', and probable a few others. you will likely need to 
call on these other tools to handle the OCR for you.






From martin at v.loewis.de  Sun Jul  6 15:14:10 2003
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-15?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 06 Jul 2003 21:14:10 +0200
Subject: PEP idea. ( removing __slots__ )
References: <3f073594$1_2@news1.vip.uk.com> <be8hr1$8eh$06$1@news.t-online.com> <3f083043$1_3@news1.vip.uk.com> <m3wuev20jt.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <3f085fa7_3@news1.vip.uk.com>
Message-ID: <m3smpjo4cd.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

simon place <simon_place at whsmithnet.co.uk> writes:

> i can't think of a point for __slots__ except to save the overhead of
> a dict, this is why you DON'T HAVE a __dict__ when __slots__ is
> defined.

No. Some classes have slots for efficiency, and their subclasses have
dictionaries for generality.

Likewise, some classes have slots to save the dictionary for most
instances, but some instances may need additional attributes, in which
case Python creates the dictionary on-the-fly.

> The point of the combining is to simplify, you know, based on the idea
> that keeping the language simply ( and logical ) aids comprehension.

I know.

Regards,
Martin



From hn at nospam.net  Fri Jul 25 10:10:32 2003
From: hn at nospam.net (HN)
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 16:10:32 +0200
Subject: Python and VS.Net
References: <mailman.1058934395.4215.python-list@python.org> <bflf99$aqd$1@slb9.atl.mindspring.net> <mailman.1058989177.1549.python-list@python.org> <bfo14i$ibh$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <ENVXDA58AA2A@envox.local.hr>

> Yes, I was aware of these, too.   Despite Microsoft's claims about the
.NET
> platform being language-independent, it doesn't seem to be a simple task
to
> get Python going on it.    So far, I think there are only VB.NET, C++, C#
> and J#.   No Python#, Perl# or Ruby#, as of yet...

This is probably because .NET is more suitable for statically typed
languages than for dynamic ones. However, many statically-typed
languages have .NET implementations. For example, Eiffel, which
is a very good language, in many aspects far superior to VB, C++,
C# and Java.





From pascalbarbedor at free.fr  Tue Jul 29 03:44:11 2003
From: pascalbarbedor at free.fr (pascal barbedor)
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 09:44:11 +0200
Subject: blanks embedded in python 2.3 optparse
Message-ID: <3f2625b7$0$24594$626a54ce@news.free.fr>

Hi

is there a way to pass a param with blank embedded with optparse ?
(C:\Python23\Doc\lib\module-optparse.html)


for instance
prog --name=mr jones


and have "mister jones" as a single entry for name ?

reading the docs I see nothing about that.

the only thing is the nargs to pass nargs at a time, but here you can't tell
in advance how many words in the name there is

thanks







From Chris.Rennert at mdi-oshkosh.com  Tue Jul  1 15:27:58 2003
From: Chris.Rennert at mdi-oshkosh.com (Chris Rennert)
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 14:27:58 -0500
Subject: remove special characters from line
References: <3f01a27d$0$43847$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net>
Message-ID: <3f01e0b0$0$43854$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net>

I apologize for being vague on what a "special" character is in my context.
For me, it would be anything that isn't A..Z , a..z, or 0..9  .
My list seems to work, or like it was suggested I could have used a string
as well.  I thank everyone for the help, and I am really enjoying learning
Python.

Thanks again,
Chris Rennert
"Chris Rennert" <Chris.Rennert at mdi-oshkosh.com> wrote in message
news:3f01a27d$0$43847$39cecf19 at news.twtelecom.net...
> Hello all,
>
> If I have a line like this
>
> ?blah blah blah blah blah
>
> I know I could do a slice like this [1:] to pull everything but the
special
> character, but what if I have several lines in a file.
> I am not sure how I would detect a special character like that.  I would
> just like to pull everything from those lines (and the special character
> always appears as the first character, but not on every line) except for
the
> special characters.
> I hope I have enough detail for someone to help me.
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Chris
>
>





From peter at engcorp.com  Sat Jul 19 10:14:44 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 10:14:44 -0400
Subject: using functions and file renaming problem
References: <3F174E76.4000302@hotmail.com> <mailman.1058531368.14359.python-list@python.org> <3F1871A5.3020702@hotmail.com> <mailman.1058617770.12505.python-list@python.org> <3F194969.6020807@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <3F195254.681DF769@engcorp.com>

hokiegal99 wrote:
> 
> My scripts aren't long and complex, so I don't really *need* to use
> functions. But the idea of using them is appealing to me because it
> seems the right thing to do from a design point of view. I can see how
> larger, more complex programs would get out of hand if the programmer
> did not use functions so they'd be absolutely necessary there. But if
> they allow larger programs to have a better overall design that's more
> compact and readable (like your examples showed) then one could argue
> that they would do the same for smaller, simplier programs too.

Uh oh!  You're being poisoned with the meme of "right design".

Don't use functions because they "seem the right thing to do", use
them because *they reduce repetition*, or simplify code by *making
it more readable*.

If you aren't reducing repetition with them you are losing the
primary benefit.  If you also aren't making your code more readable,
don't use functions.

Whatever you do, don't use them just because somebody has convinced
you "they're the right thing".

-Peter



From mike at nospam.com  Thu Jul 24 17:56:24 2003
From: mike at nospam.com (Mike Rovner)
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 14:56:24 -0700
Subject: Standard behaviour of a getSomething method
References: <A128D751272CD411BC9200508BC2194D03382C3A@escpl.tcp.com.ar>
Message-ID: <bfpkur$bl0$1@main.gmane.org>

Batista, Facundo wrote:

> When I want to know about a attribute (e.g.: myAttrib) of an object, I
> should use the specific method (e.g.: getMyAttrib).

Python don't enforce nor encourage attribute hiding,
so don't do it unless you have a good reason.
Plain access to attributes is simple:
    myObject.myAttribute

> Considering that this attribute is always another object (everything
> is an object in Python), what should getMyAttrib do?
>
> 1) Return the object
> 2) Return a copy of the object

Usualy statement
   x=y
creates a new object y referencing to old object y.
If y allows modification it can be modified through name 'x'
If you want a copy:

> How do I return a copy of the object?

Do it explicitly:
   myObject.copy()
or
  import copy
  copy.copy(myObject)
  copy.deepcopy(myObject)

Mike







From mike at nospam.com  Wed Jul 16 16:13:45 2003
From: mike at nospam.com (Mike Rovner)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 13:13:45 -0700
Subject: c/c++ implementation of python base and derived class
References: <521f96c7.0307151943.7d987b2@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bf4bji$32i$1@main.gmane.org>

Robert Harrison wrote:

> in C or C++, to
>
>   1) implement a new-style Python class, and
>   2) derive another new class from it?

Take a look to boost.python at
http://www.boost.org/libs/python/doc/tutorial/index.html

Mike







From usenet at fomps.net  Tue Jul 15 09:24:53 2003
From: usenet at fomps.net (Stephen VanDahm)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 13:24:53 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Securing the Pyton Interpreter?
References: <slrnbh7q3f.kiv.usenet@norge.freeshell.org> <yu99he5ogdnx.fsf@tinker.research.att.com>
Message-ID: <slrnbh804a.8q5.usenet@norge.freeshell.org>

In article <yu99he5ogdnx.fsf at tinker.research.att.com>, Andrew Koenig wrote:
> Stephen> I'm looking for a way to install Python on a UNIX machine in
> Stephen> a way such that any user on the system can use it, but only
> Stephen> to execute scripts that are located in a certain directory.
> 
> Why?  If I were a user on that machine and wanted to execute Python
> scripts in a different directory, how would you stop me from installing
> Python on my own and using it for those scripts?
> 


Andrew,

I'm a member of a Public Access UNIX system.  Some users on the system are 
allowed to use development tools (like Python) and other aren't.  Also, 
some users are allowed to install software that they've written into a 
publically accessible area so that everyone on the system can use it.  The 
problem is that if the software is written in a language like Python, 
regular users won't be able to use the Python interpreter to run it, and 
the Python programs that we write won't be very useful.  Some of us want 
to install a second interpreter that's been secured somewhat so that 
people can run our programs without being able to execute arbitrary 
Python programs.

You are correct that nothing (in principle) prevents someone from 
installing another Python interpreter in $HOME/bin and running whatever 
they want.  In fact, that's kind of what *we're* doing.  But since I 
neither make nor enforce the rules, it isn't my problem if other people 
try to break them.

Basically, I need to do this for bureaucratic reasons.  I know it's a 
hack, and that it sounds like a stupid thing to do, but it's the best 
available option for us....

Thanks for the reply,

Steve



From mhammond at skippinet.com.au  Wed Jul 30 18:37:02 2003
From: mhammond at skippinet.com.au (Mark Hammond)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 08:37:02 +1000
Subject: PyXPCom
In-Reply-To: <3f27e5a8$0$13798$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net>
References: <3f27e5a8$0$13798$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net>
Message-ID: <bg9ha9$1ovd$1@arachne.labyrinth.net.au>

Guyon Mor?e wrote:
> I recently found out about XPCom and it's python bindings and it sounded
> very promising. Then I found out that the source of this information was
> pretty old. I was wondering what the status is currently. I couldn't find
> any documentation or binaries for the python interface.
> 
> 
> has anyone examples, docs, binaries, urls, etc????
PyXPCOM is in the Mozilla source tree, under extensions/python/xpcom. 
It is recommented that is you are using a fairly recent Mozilla version, 
you should use the *trunk* version of pyxpcom, as it has a number of 
fixes that aren't in the Moz final releases.

Mark





From logiplex at qwest.net  Tue Jul 22 18:20:15 2003
From: logiplex at qwest.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: 22 Jul 2003 15:20:15 -0700
Subject: wxpython display jpg in a frame
In-Reply-To: <1058908566.1448.42.camel@software1.logiplex.internal>
References: <Xns93C3E5CBB1F33maxnowherecom@212.68.193.222>
	 <1058908566.1448.42.camel@software1.logiplex.internal>
Message-ID: <1058912415.1448.85.camel@software1.logiplex.internal>

On Tue, 2003-07-22 at 14:16, Cliff Wells wrote:
> On Tue, 2003-07-22 at 12:32, max4 wrote:
> > hello
> > i would like to know if there is a good tutorial about how to do this
> > or if someone could explain
> > [ i want to add a jpg to an existing about dialog]

Sorry, I misread your question.  I was thinking you wanted to add an
image as a *background* to a dialog...

David's response is correct.

-- 
Cliff Wells, Software Engineer
Logiplex Corporation (www.logiplex.net)
(503) 978-6726  (800) 735-0555





From clifford.wells at comcast.net  Sun Jul 13 22:06:33 2003
From: clifford.wells at comcast.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: 13 Jul 2003 19:06:33 -0700
Subject: How to crash Python in 1 easy step (python 2.2.2)
In-Reply-To: <2e363c08.0307130944.4c470bc3@posting.google.com>
References: <2e363c08.0307130944.4c470bc3@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1058148392.2220.77.camel@devilbox.homelinux.net>

On Sun, 2003-07-13 at 10:44, Paul Miller wrote:
> I'm not sure if this is a python bug or a bug in an associated
> library, and I'm not even sure how to correctly report it, but here is
>   Anytime python is accepting keyboard input, whether it's with
> raw_input, or sitting on the command line waiting for the user to type
> code, you can crash python by holding ctrl+shift and then pressing
> enter.
> 
> This is on a RedHat 9.0 system running on an Athlon 600.

Redhat 9, Athlon XP 1700+.  Python 2.2.2-26,  readline 4.3-5

Not a problem.

Regards,
Cliff

-- 
There's no light at the end of it all, let's all sit down and cry
                                               -This Mortal Coil





From fa507874 at skynet.be  Thu Jul 31 03:14:38 2003
From: fa507874 at skynet.be (conatic)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 09:14:38 +0200
Subject: Exploring a ftp with python to find pdf
Message-ID: <pan.2003.07.31.07.14.37.563162@skynet.be>

I want to make a script that connect to a ftp and get a list of all pdf 
stored in the ftp with their path to use the list later.

I have tried some script with recursion but can't do something good.
Could you help ?

conatic - http://www.hesit.net





From ggg at zzz.it  Fri Jul 25 06:46:11 2003
From: ggg at zzz.it (deelan)
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 12:46:11 +0200
Subject: (Eclipse/TruStudio) Re: I am so impressed
In-Reply-To: <3f207dcc$0$137$1b62eedf@news.wanadoo.nl>
References: <3f207dcc$0$137$1b62eedf@news.wanadoo.nl>
Message-ID: <hu5rfb.7qn.ln@news1.interplanet.it>

Guyon Mor?e wrote:

> I've been looking for a nice python editor for a while. I was using a great
> general purpose editor called EditPlus. It did the job pretty good....
> 
> I've now downloaded Eclipse with the TruStudio plug-ins from www.xored.com
> and it's great!
after your suggestion i've downloaded both eclispe and trustudio.
eclipse starts flawlessy but i cannot see any trace of trustudio
python extensions. BTW eclipse runs smoothly on my office P4 1.4GHz, 512MB.

there's should be some reference to python support
in the IDE, right? something lile "new file --> python",
or "new project --> python project", actually i only see
java related stuff.

following the website instructions i've just unzipped trustudio zip 
files (2) into eclipse folder (they actually installs under "plug-ins" 
folder). i've restarted eclipse a couple of times, but nothing
changed

any thoughts?

later,
deelan

-- 
goldicus1970 AT yahoo.it
http://www.deelan.com/








From anandpillai6 at yahoo.com  Mon Jul 21 03:01:34 2003
From: anandpillai6 at yahoo.com (Anand)
Date: 21 Jul 2003 00:01:34 -0700
Subject: Threading Pool Event()
References: <0tRRa.212$vD1.8077@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au>	 <bf8ri5$cs7$1@panix1.panix.com>  <NDZRa.273$vD1.11889@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au> <mailman.1058567369.23096.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <41c203e.0307202301.64022dca@posting.google.com>

What if you want to make sure that there are exactly
'n' threads in the queue a given moment ? 

I had a problem of a similar kind, which I solved by
deriving a "Thread monitor" class from Queue. I initialized
the Queue with a given size (the number of threads in it
a given moment, the number 'n' above). But, I found that
this does not happen accurately as I wanted. I solved
it by using a non-blocking queue and managing the exception
by using an Event and by using my own locks.

The code would look something like this ...
It uses a polling mechanism with sleeping.

# Note: bad indentation!

class TrackerMonitor:

def __init__(self):
     ...
     ...
     self._event= threading.Event()
     self._lock = threading.Lock()
     # Set the event so that threads dont block!
     self._event.set()

def runThreads(self):

    # Use a non-blocking queue and manage exceptions
    # on my own.

    while threading.activeCount()>1:  # Run till all threads are exhausted
          if self._flag: break        # flag to signal end of polling
          time.sleep(1.0)
          try:
              t=self.get(0)
              self._trackers.append(t) # local list for easier management
              t.start()
          except Empty:
              self._event.set()       # Wake up all threads waiting for this
                                      # event

def wait(self):
    """ Block on the event """

    self._event.wait()


def addToQueue(self, tracker): 
    """ Add a thread to the thread queue """

    # Acquire lock
    self._lock.acquire()
    cond = 0
    
    # Use a non-blocking queue and manage exceptions
    # my own
    while not cond:
       try:
          self.put(tracker, 0)
          cond = 1
       except Full:
          self._event.clear()   # Clear event so that all waiting threads
                                # block, till the queue is empty again
        
    # Release lock
    self._lock.release()

And in the thread code...

class Tracker(threading.Thread):

     def __init___(self, monitor):
          ...
          ...
          self._monitor = monitor # Instance of above class

     def doMyJobInAloop(self):

         for int in range(0, len(jobs)):
             ...
             ...
             # Wait on the event of the monitor
             self._monitor.wait()
             # Do my work
             ...
             # This code spawns more thread objects of this
             # class, all of which call the same loop as this
             # one.


As you can see, I use an event in my queue derived class to signal
threads when they can join the queue. The event is set when the queue
is empty and cleared when the queue is full. All threads block on this
event in their main loop.

With this mechanism, I was able to get more control on the queue's
handling of threads, which is what I wanted.

I am not sure how this affetcs performance theorotically, since I am not
using the Queue's internal locking mechanism. 

But as far as the program goes, I am happy with the way it performs.

This might be one way the O.P can use Events in his implementation.

~Anand

"Cliff Wells" <logiplex at qwest.net> wrote in message news:<mailman.1058567369.23096.python-list at python.org>...
> On Fri, 2003-07-18 at 14:28, Graeme Matthew wrote:
> > Aahz
> > 
> > Thanks, ive actually been using your OSCON slides which have helped a lot.
> > So it technically correct that all worker threads in a thread pool are
> > either doing some work  or polling the queue to find out if there is a job
> > to process ?
> 
> They don't poll the queue, they block waiting on it until something is
> available.
> 
> > eg: (pseudocodish :-))
> > 
> > def run(self):
> > 
> >     while 1:
> > 
> >         self.lock.acquire()
> > 
> >         if QueueManager.HasJob:
> >             job = QueueManager.GetFreeJob()
> >             __processJob(job)
> > 
> >         self.lock.release()
> > 
> >  def __processJob(self):
> > 
> >         blah blah blah .....
> 
> More like:
> 
> def run():
>     while 1:
>         job = queue.get() # this blocks until something is queue.put()
>         _processjob(job)
> 
> 
> Acquiring the locks isn't necessary and ill-advised.  The Queue itself
> can be thought of as a type of locking mechanism, so you raise the
> possibility of a deadlock condition by nesting locks (for instance if
> you also put locks around the queue.put()).
> 
> Regards,



From KodeKruncherDude at aol.com  Sun Jul 20 10:26:40 2003
From: KodeKruncherDude at aol.com (Adam Petrosh)
Date: 20 Jul 2003 07:26:40 -0700
Subject: Newbie Questions?
Message-ID: <504413fa.0307200626.3fceb85a@posting.google.com>

Hail all. Are newbie questions allowed here, or is there a different
Newsgroup for that? Thanks.



From usenet at kyle.sent.com  Thu Jul  3 21:11:09 2003
From: usenet at kyle.sent.com (Kyle Babich)
Date: 3 Jul 2003 18:11:09 -0700
Subject: FYI:  pyBoards.com
Message-ID: <191e20c8.0307031711.42d4e46b@posting.google.com>

I have just opened pyBoards.com, a community for Python programmers. 
Please stop by and check it out.

http://www.pyBoards.com

Tell me what you think,
Kyle



From mgerrans at mindspring.com  Thu Jul 31 03:35:28 2003
From: mgerrans at mindspring.com (Matt Gerrans)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 00:35:28 -0700
Subject: Portability of Python (VS.Net, Java etc.)
References: <mailman.1058934395.4215.python-list@python.org> <bflf99$aqd$1@slb9.atl.mindspring.net> <mailman.1058989177.1549.python-list@python.org> <bfo14i$ibh$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net> <221d8dbe.0307272345.63503afd@posting.google.com> <bg309p$p2b$1@news.hccnet.nl> <221d8dbe.0307290635.fea912d@posting.google.com> <bg6bdf$kuf38$1@ID-139865.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <bgagvp$u8k$1@slb5.atl.mindspring.net>

"Dave Kuhlman" wrote:
> Of the two frameworks mentioned (MS .Net and Java) we already have
> Python in Java.  So, before doing Python in/on MS .Net it would be
> worthwhile to ask whether Python in Java (Jython) has succeeded.

That's overly simplistic, I think.   Whether or not Jython was "a success"
on the JVM has little to do with whether it is worthwhile on the CLR.   In
fact, when Guido first began Python proper, I don't think he was too
concerned with whether it would be "a success" -- I think he just wanted to
create a useful tool.

> Ask yourself this question:  Would a consultant or contractor who
> had no ideological commitment to Python (which I do) choose to work
> in Jython over Java, and why?

Yes, there are many *pragmatic* reasons to use Python, ideology aside.  At
the very least, Jython is a great way to experiment with Java APIs and learn
them quickly.

> One additional consideration is that a consultant/contractor can
> bill more hours if Java is used than they can if Python/Jython is
> used, because development in Java is slower than development in
> Python.  So, why would the consultant/contractor choose Python over
> Java?

This is a silly stereotype.   Any consultant/contractor who looks at things
this way is a charlatan and should be booted (to the head, no less) at the
earliest opportunity.   I have only met one consultant who created such bad
work that it seemed like he was playing the "job security" game -- and after
spending much time trying to disentangle his code, I concluded it was simply
incompetence, not intentional malevolence.

Having been a consultant/contractor for nearly a decade now, I can tell you
that I am always happy to maximize my productivity.   There is never any
shortage of work to do, even when you get a project done in half the time
with better than expected quality.

I am working on a .Net project now and if I could do some or all of the code
in Python, I would.    Instead, I'm using C#, which I like more than Java,
but less than Python.   There are already a wealth of good libraries
available in .Net that would make the Python-on-.Net combination very
effective and useful.

- Matt





From tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk  Thu Jul 31 04:28:25 2003
From: tim.golden at viacom-outdoor.co.uk (Tim Golden)
Date: 31 Jul 2003 01:28:25 -0700
Subject: How to get Windows physical RAM using python?
References: <bg90lh$bkp$1@news3.bu.edu> <bg920a$9pt$05$1@news.t-online.com> <b11d1191.0307301601.67450ca3@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <8360efcd.0307310028.a91343b@posting.google.com>

BranimirPetrovic at yahoo.com (Branimir Petrovic) wrote in message news:<b11d1191.0307301601.67450ca3 at posting.google.com>...
> "Martin v. L?wis" <martin at v.loewis.de> wrote in message news:<bg920a$9pt$05$1 at news.t-online.com>...
> > Python can't get you Windows physical RAM. You have to order RAM
> > from a manufacturer or reseller if Windows needs more RAM :-)
> > 
> > Regards,
> > Martin
> 
> "Easy" way to get to physical RAM on Windows is via WMI objects.
> 

And here's how you'd do it in Python:

1) Get WMI module from http://tgolden.sc.sabren.com/wmi.html

2) Do something like this:

<code>
import wmi

computer = wmi.WMI ()
for i in computer.Win32_ComputerSystem ():
  print i.Caption, "has", i.TotalPhysicalMemory, "bytes of memory"
</code> 

Obviously you can fiddle around with Megabytes and Gigabytes and so on
if you need to. The loop is a slight hack: you obviously only have one
computer system, but this interface to WMI always returns a list
(albeit of one value).

HTH
TJG



From barry at python.org  Tue Jul 29 20:02:26 2003
From: barry at python.org (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 20:02:26 -0400
Subject: RELEASED Python 2.3 (final)
Message-ID: <16167.2834.754645.707376@gargle.gargle.HOWL>

On behalf of the Python development team and the Python community, I'm
happy to announce the release of Python 2.3 (final).

Nineteen months in the making, Python 2.3 represents a commitment to
stability and improved performance, with a minimum of new language
features.  Countless bugs and memory leaks have been fixed, many new
and updated modules have been added, and the new type/class system
introduced in Python 2.2 has been significantly improved.  Python 2.3
can be up to 30% faster than Python 2.2.

For more information on Python 2.3, including download links for
various platforms, release notes, and known issues, please see:

    http://www.python.org/2.3

Highlights of this new release include:

- A brand new version of IDLE, the Python IDE, from the IDLEfork
  project at SourceForge.

- Many new and improved library modules including: sets, heapq,
  datetime, textwrap, optparse, logging, bsddb, bz2, tarfile,
  ossaudiodev, itertools, platform, csv, timeit, shelve,
  DocXMLRPCServer, imaplib, imp, trace, and a new random number
  generator based on the highly acclaimed Mersenne Twister algorithm
  (with a period of 2**19937-1).  Some obsolete modules have been
  deprecated.

- New and improved built-ins including:
    o enumerate(): an iterator yielding (index, item) pairs
    o sum(): a new function to sum a sequence of numbers
    o basestring: an abstract base string type for str and unicode
    o bool: a proper type with instances True and False
    o compile(), eval(), exec: fully support Unicode, and allow input
      not ending in a newline
    o range(): support for long arguments (magnitude > sys.maxint)
    o dict(): new constructor signatures
    o filter(): returns Unicode when the input is Unicode
    o int() can now return long
    o isinstance(), super(): Now support instances whose type() is not
      equal to their __class__.  super() no longer ignores data
      descriptors, except for __class__.
    o raw_input(): can now return Unicode objects
    o slice(), buffer(): are now types rather than functions

- Many new doctest extensions, allowing them to be run by unittest.

- Extended slices, e.g. "hello"[::-1] returns "olleh".

- Universal newlines mode for reading files (converts \r, \n and \r\n
  all into \n).

- Source code encoding declarations.  (PEP 263)

- Import from zip files.  (PEP 273 and PEP 302)

- FutureWarning issued for "unsigned" operations on ints.  (PEP 237)

- Faster list.sort() is now stable.

- Unicode filenames on Windows.  (PEP 227)

- Karatsuba long multiplication (running time O(N**1.58) instead of
  O(N**2)).

- pickle, cPickle, and copy support a new pickling protocol for more
  efficient pickling of (especially) new-style class instances.

- The socket module now supports optional timeouts on all operations.

- ssl support has been incorporated into the Windows installer.

- Many improvements to Tkinter.

Python 2.3 contains many other improvements, including the adoption of
many Python Enhancement Proposals (PEPs).  For details see:

    http://www.python.org/2.3/highlights.html

Enjoy.

happy-50th-birthday-geddy-ly y'rs,
-Barry

Barry Warsaw
barry at python.org
Python 2.3 Release Manager
(and the PythonLabs team: Tim, Fred, Jeremy, and Guido)




From ianb at colorstudy.com  Wed Jul 23 12:52:07 2003
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: 23 Jul 2003 11:52:07 -0500
Subject: How does Mr. Martelli's Borg recipe work ?
In-Reply-To: <mXdYCLAc0jH$EwJR@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
References: <764b8294.0307221520.18017b09@posting.google.com>
	 <mailman.1058930376.7219.python-list@python.org>
	 <mXdYCLAc0jH$EwJR@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <1058979127.28091.7512.camel@lothlorien>

On Wed, 2003-07-23 at 02:45, Robin Becker wrote:
> ....can't one do
> class TheSomething:
>    ....
> 
> TheSomething = TheSomething()
> 
> then it's harder to get at the class which presumably is now only
> available as TheSomething.__class__

I wouldn't generally name the class and the singleton the same, but just
because that is confusing -- if you look briefly at the code you'll
initially think that TheSomething is a class, when it is actually an
instance.  Better would be:

class _Something:
    ....

TheSomething = _Something()
del _Something

  Ian






From paul.m at speakeasy.net  Sat Jul 26 17:29:00 2003
From: paul.m at speakeasy.net (Paul M)
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 17:29:00 -0400
Subject: Pythoness
In-Reply-To: <3rnav-q64.ln1@beastie.ix.netcom.com>
References: <3f2115e6$1@news.012.net.il> <3rnav-q64.ln1@beastie.ix.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <Kq2dnb3WrJYHb7-iRTvUrg@speakeasy.net>

Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
> Avner Ben fed this fish to the penguins on Friday 25 July 2003 05:34 am:
> 
> 
>>The following is from the "A Word A Day" newsletter
>>(http://www.wordsmith.org/awad/subscribe.html) of  22 July 2003. I
>>thought you'd find it amusing...
>>
>>
>>>pythoness (PIE-thuh-nis) noun
>>>
>>>  1. A woman with the power of divination.
>>>
>>>  2. The priestess of Apollo at Delphi in Greek mythology.
>>>
> 
>         Hmmm, I'd always seen the priestess referred to as "the Pythia" (or 
> something similar).
> 


For more on Pythia and Delphi see a recent Scientific American article:

http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?articleID=0009BD34-398C-1F0A-97AE80A84189EEDF&pageNumber=1&catID=2


If that URL get's munged, just go the the Scientific American homepage 
and search on "Delphi"

--Paul




From imbosol at aerojockey.com  Thu Jul 24 00:17:25 2003
From: imbosol at aerojockey.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 04:17:25 GMT
Subject: file.close()
References: <edITa.131868$Ph3.17333@sccrnsc04> <3F1F5297.15D768EF@alcyone.com> <slrnbhukr8.13c.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>
Message-ID: <p5JTa.32154$7O.2024@nwrdny01.gnilink.net>

Ben Finney wrote:
> On Wed, 23 Jul 2003 20:29:27 -0700, Erik Max Francis wrote:
>> Bryan wrote:
>>> is what i'm doing is overkill?
>> 
>> Use of external resources -- which should be released as soon as
>> you're done with them -- are best done in try/finally clauses.
> 
> It seems that nesting the 'try' clauses doesn't scale well.  What if
> fifty files are opened?  Must the nesting level of the 'try' clauses be
> fifty also, to close them promptly?

If you need 50 open files, you almost certainly want to have a way of
organizing them.  Probably they'll be in a list or dictionary.  So, if
they're in a list, for example, you can do this:


    filelist = []
    try:
        filelist.append(open(filename[0]))
        filelist.append(open(filename[1]))
        ...
        do_something(filelist)
    finally:
        for f in filelist:
            f.close()


-- 
CARL BANKS



From simonb at webone.com.au  Fri Jul  4 08:54:03 2003
From: simonb at webone.com.au (Simon Burton)
Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 22:54:03 +1000
Subject: [Dream] A meta-wrapper module to interface any C dynamic library
References: <pan.2003.07.04.10.59.31.477048@virgilio.it>
Message-ID: <pan.2003.07.04.12.54.02.994560@webone.com.au>

On Fri, 04 Jul 2003 10:59:39 +0000, Francesco Bochicchio wrote:


> Did anybody ever attempted to do something like this?
> 
> Ciao
> -----
> FB

yeah,

http://arrowtheory.com/software/python/index.html

it's hard :)

Simon.




From tjreedy at udel.edu  Tue Jul  1 12:31:55 2003
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 12:31:55 -0400
Subject: Good code patterns in Python
References: <cb035744.0307010149.399df2eb@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <udadnRZvGJDhKpyiXTWJiA@comcast.com>

"Will Stuyvesant" <hwlgw at hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:cb035744.0307010149.399df2eb at posting.google.com...
> If you know that your source code is going to be used
> later by others, then I feel that code with the pattern:
>
>     if some_condition:
>         some_name = some_value
>     else:
>         some_name = other_value
>
> is often a mistake.  Much better, safer, would be:
>
>     some_name = some_value
>     if not some_condition:
>         some_name = other_value

If, bool(some_value) == True, I personally would use the near-ternary
idiom

some_name = some_condition and some_value or other_value

(or equivalent form for bool(other_value)== True or either == False).

This is both safe and efficient, avoiding both

> Because those people reusing your code might decide to
> change or adapt the "if" part of the first example.  Or
> the "else" part for that matter.  And then they could end
> up with "some_name" being undefined, crashing other code
> maybe 1000's of lines away.

and

> There is the small overhead of assigning something twice

(I acknowledge that some think this ugly and worse and would not be
caught dead writing such an 'abomination', so flame repetition is not
necessary ;-)

Terry J. Reedy





From andy47 at halfcooked.com  Tue Jul 29 11:23:03 2003
From: andy47 at halfcooked.com (Andy Todd)
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 16:23:03 +0100
Subject: variable assignment in "while" loop
In-Reply-To: <F7DB8D13DB61D511B6FF00B0D0F062330592C757@mail.hebmex.com>
References: <F7DB8D13DB61D511B6FF00B0D0F062330592C757@mail.hebmex.com>
Message-ID: <bg63j3$c09$1@main.gmane.org>

sismex01 at hebmex.com wrote:
>>From: Sybren Stuvel [mailto:sybrenUSE at YOURthirdtower.imagination.com] 
>>Sent: Martes, 29 de Julio de 2003 07:09 a.m.
>>
>>Hi there,
>>
>>Is it possible to use an assignment in a while-loop? I'd like to do
>>something like "loop while there is still something to be read, and if
>>there is, put it in this variable". I've been a C programmer since I
>>was 14, so a construct like:
>>
>>while info = mydbcursor.fetchone():
>>	print "Information: "+str(info)
>>
>>comes to mind. Unfortunately, this doesn't work. Is there a similar
>>construct in python?
>>
>>Sybren
>>
> 
> 
> Well, you say you've programmed C since 14, but not how old you
> are now, so... you could be programming C for six months if you're
> 14-and-a-half ;-)
> 
> Assignment, in Python, is not an expression, it's a statement;
> it doesn't "return" any value, it binds an object's reference
> to a name.  Multiple chained assignments in Python don't work
> the same way as they do in C, because in Python they're merely
> syntactic sugar so you don't have to type them by hand.
> 
> Anyhow... the best way to do what you wanna is simply:
> 
> while 1:
>     info = mydbcursor.fetchone()
>     if not info: break
>     print "Information:", info
> 
> a-ha! you say; yes, the "print" statement ("STATEMENT", not function)
> automagically applies str() to the given object, so if you directly
> print an object, you don't have to str() it, print does that for
> you.
> 
> "But it's so cumbersome" you think, looking upon an inconditional-
> turned-conditional loop.  Don't worry, it'll become natural with
> practice, and after a bit you'll recall your previous C loops
> and think "ewww".  Why?  Because, the C compiler is doing
> exactly that, only implicitly, and hiding it from you.
> That's bad.
> 
> You could also:
> 
> info = mydbcursor.fetchone()
> while info:
>     print "Information:", info
>     info = mydbcursor.fetchone()
> 
> and there's nothing wrong with this; the only "anti-aesthetic"
> thing here is the duplicated line which assigns to "info",
> but that's small potatos, really; don't worry about that.
> 
> Another way, with more modern versions of Python, is to
> iterate directly over the cursor:
> 
> for info in mydbcursor:
>     print "Information:", info
> 
> Why?  Because cursors, if I recall correctly, are iterable
> objects, so you can iterate through them using for: or any
> other similar construct.
> 
> Welcome to programming bliss :-)
> 
> -gustavo
> 
> 

Spot on, with one (minor) correction. With a for loop you have to 
iterate over the results of a call to a method on the cursor, e.g.;

for info in mydbcursor.fetchall():
     print "Information:", info

You could replace fetchall() with fetchmany() or, if you are feeling 
contrary, fetchone() ;-)

Regards,
Andy
-- 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 From the desk of Andrew J Todd esq - http://www.halfcooked.com/






From gh at ghaering.de  Thu Jul 31 04:57:57 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 10:57:57 +0200
Subject: Python2.3 and MySQLdb on Windows
In-Reply-To: <pU_Va.38100$ib2.10551507@twister.neo.rr.com>
References: <pU_Va.38100$ib2.10551507@twister.neo.rr.com>
Message-ID: <3F28DA15.2090804@ghaering.de>

Mike M wrote:
> Python2.3 and MySQLdb don't seem to work together on Windows.  If I
> understand the error message correctly, the problem seems to be that the
> _mysql binary expects version 2.2 of the Python dll. 

Python extension modules with different minor versions are incompatible 
on Windows. Trying to cheat by copying files around won't change that ;-)

> Does anyone know of a
> fix for this, or when a Windows version that works with 2.3 will be
> available?

The more interesting question is when MySQL AB will make their so-called 
Free Software be able to be compiled with free compilers like mingw. You 
still need Microsoft Visual Studio to build MySQldb on Windows.

Anyway, as usual I've made the binaries and sent them to Andy Dustman. 
They should show up during the next days at the Sourceforge download page.

-- Gerhard




From ggg at zzz.it  Sat Jul 26 05:47:53 2003
From: ggg at zzz.it (deelan)
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 11:47:53 +0200
Subject: (Eclipse/TruStudio) Re: I am so impressed
In-Reply-To: <3f211b92$0$8296$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net>
References: <3f207dcc$0$137$1b62eedf@news.wanadoo.nl> <hu5rfb.7qn.ln@news1.interplanet.it> <3f211b92$0$8296$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net>
Message-ID: <ihmtfb.qhq.ln@news1.interplanet.it>

Guyon Mor?e wrote:

> did you install both packages from TruStudio?
> 
> you have to download the trustudio framework & the python devtools
> be sure you've unzipped the files correctly in th plugin folder of eclipse
i cannot check now since i'm at home, but i'm pretty sure i extracted
both zip files in the eclipse folder (and they created some sub-folders
in the plugin one).

i'll check things again the next week.

later,
deelan
-- 
email: goldicus1970 AT yahoo.it
web: http://www.deelan.com




From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Tue Jul  1 21:07:58 2003
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 20:07:58 -0500
Subject: Howto: extract a 'column' from a list of lists into a new list?
In-Reply-To: <bdspmf$leq$0@216.39.172.122> (bokr@oz.net's message of "1 Jul
 2003 20:07:43 GMT")
References: <vg1mbarhe86d2d@corp.supernews.com>
	<3f013fb1$0$97259$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
	<bdspmf$leq$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <m27k71lor5.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

>>>>> "Bengt" == Bengt Richter <bokr at oz.net> writes:

    >>>> zip(*fields)

That is amazingly helpful.  I've often needed to transpose a 2d list,
(mainly to get a "column" from an SQL query of a list of rows) and
this is just the trick.

I recently wrote a function to "deal" out a list of MySQLdb results,
where each field was a numeric type, and wanted to fill numeric arrays
with each column of results

With your trick, eg, for a list of results from three numeric fields,
I just have to do:

  a1, a2, a3 =  map(array, zip(*results))

John Hunter




From mkc at stowers-institute.org  Wed Jul  2 16:04:49 2003
From: mkc at stowers-institute.org (Michael Coleman)
Date: 02 Jul 2003 15:04:49 -0500
Subject: os.fork() different in cgi-script?
References: <bdudn2$11c3gt$1@fu-berlin.de> <85adbxouec.fsf@stowers-institute.org> <bdusom$10uv66$1@fu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <8565mkpue6.fsf@stowers-institute.org>

"Andreas Kuntzagk" <andreas.kuntzagk at mdc-berlin.de> writes:
> Thanx, that's it. Is it possible/advisable to make stdout unbuffered?

Probably.  I'd be more inclined to just do an explicit flush in the
few places where they are specifically needed, though.

Mike

-- 
Mike Coleman, Scientific Programmer, +1 816 926 4419
Stowers Institute for Biomedical Research
1000 E. 50th St., Kansas City, MO  64110



From me at home.net  Thu Jul  3 15:38:43 2003
From: me at home.net (J-P)
Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 15:38:43 -0400
Subject: Why so many references to global variables?
Message-ID: <aD%Ma.5942$bD1.693184@news20.bellglobal.com>

Hi,

I have a Python script interacting with a specialized
C numerical library. The whole program does quite a lot
of number crunching as should be running for a couple
of hours. However, it always seems to run out of memory
after maybe 40-45 minutes (I get a MemoryError from
the python interpreter). I wanted to see what took
that much memory so I printed a reference count
(using sys.getrefcount()) and I was suprised to
see that a global variable called 'myflag' has litteraly
millions of references to it. myflag appears maybe
8 or 10 times in the script, always something like

if myflag:
	#do something
else:
	#do something else

It appears that every time the interpreter tests for
the value of 'myflag', it keeps a reference to it.
I don't know whether this has something to do with
the garbage collector not doing its job correctly
of me doing something wrong in the code, but I'd really
like to fix this thing.

Any ideas, suggestions or comments greatly appreciated,
as always.

Thanks in advance,
J-P




From bgailer at alum.rpi.edu  Thu Jul 17 10:49:29 2003
From: bgailer at alum.rpi.edu (Bob Gailer)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 08:49:29 -0600
Subject: Python Quiz
In-Reply-To: <87wuehxw45.fsf@emit.demon.co.uk>
References: <84fc4588.0307152253.20858619@posting.google.com>
 <3f152bb4$1@mail.hmgcc.gov.uk>
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20030717084826.0277aa80@66.28.54.253>

At 11:53 AM 7/17/2003 +0100, Ian McConnell wrote:

>"richardc" <richardc at hmgcc.gov.uk> writes:
>
> > 'Question 8'
> > Im no expert but wouldnt you accept that Python has 'borrowed' FORTRAN's
> > fixed format syntax.  I can only think of Python and FORTRAN off the top of
> > my head which use whitespace as part of the syntax.

There is also the ISPF Dialog Manager language as used on IBM Mainframes.

Bob Gailer
bgailer at alum.rpi.edu
303 442 2625
-------------- next part --------------

---
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Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.500 / Virus Database: 298 - Release Date: 7/10/2003

From trevor at hotmail.com  Sat Jul  5 12:27:29 2003
From: trevor at hotmail.com (Trevor)
Date: Sat, 05 Jul 2003 17:27:29 +0100
Subject: CGI script is in plain text
References: <3F04B0A4.32692.3596CD0@localhost> <mailman.1057280167.26509.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2003.07.05.16.27.24.107467@hotmail.com>

On Thu, 03 Jul 2003 19:56:32 -0500, Ian Bicking wrote:

> On Thu, 2003-07-03 at 15:39, A wrote:
>> I have a webhosting account with one company.
>> They have Apache running.
>> When  I start CGI script from a web browser, the result is plain text( the copy of that script)
>> I can not access
>> httpd.conf
>> file so I changed
>> .htaccess
>> file. I put  into it
>> 
>> Options +ExecCGI
>> Sethandler /usr/bin/python.exe .py
> 
> Try renaming the file to .cgi -- as long as the #! line is right, it
> doesn't matter the extension.  Also, you may have to put the script in
> the cgi-bin directory.
> 
>   Ian

The line Sethandler /usr/bin/python.exe .py

This is a Unix/Linux host so it ain't python.exe is it?

regards

Trevor







From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Mon Jul 28 13:23:43 2003
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 13:23:43 -0400
Subject: Debugging Python ?
References: <mailman.1059409013.10134.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <vian1bbfkogpa1@news.supernews.com>

"Michael Sparks" <zathras at thwackety.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.1059409013.10134.python-list at python.org...
> On Mon, 28 Jul 2003, Shane Hathaway wrote:
>
> > As a bonus, I find that print statements do not rightfully belong in
> > most of the software I write.  Therefore I can happily add print
> > statements anywhere for debugging purposes, knowing that removing them
> > later is perfectly safe.

Yup. AFIC, the print statement is only for debugging, and it's quite
effective for that purpose.

> As an extra bonus, if you do this you can remove them all automatically:
>
> def print(*args):
>    for arg in args:
>       print arg,
>    return True
>
>
> assert print("Well, well, well", "said", "he")
>
> To erase all tracks of the debugging statements at runtime, just use the
> -O flag. I tend to use a variant of this for debugging systems that have
> "complex" concurrency to make it simpler to track "who" "said" what.
>
> I know you can do the same with just grep if you use print - but you have
> to ensure that your debugging statements don't span multiple lines.

Which mine do, quite frequently. By the time you get this far,
you've pretty much got a logging system.

Another interesting arguement for the print statement versus
online debuggers is that, if you practice test driven development,
you gradually lose your facility with the debugger - you use it
so seldom.

John Roth
>
>
> Michael.
>
>





From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Thu Jul 10 13:31:04 2003
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 10 Jul 2003 13:31:04 -0400
Subject: for in sequence problem... possible new operator to add to python
References: <3a8fc6c5.0307100816.634c83a3@posting.google.com> <5_gPa.8878$ru2.867718@news20.bellglobal.com>
Message-ID: <bek7so$man$1@panix2.panix.com>

In article <5_gPa.8878$ru2.867718 at news20.bellglobal.com>,
Sean Ross <sross at connectmail.carleton.ca> wrote:
>"Adam Gent" <agentgt at yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:3a8fc6c5.0307100816.634c83a3 at posting.google.com...
>>
>> I was fooling around subclassing a dictionary object and noticed that
>> when
>> I do the standard "for in <object-is-a-sequence>:" that I have no
>> control on how python gets that sequence.
>[snip]
>> However I want b to be the values with out doing:
>> for b in bl.values()
>
>You can do it as follows:
>
>class Blah(dict):
>    def __iter__(self):
>        return iter(self.values())

Ick.  At the very least, return self.itervalues()
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"Not everything in life has a clue in front of it...."  --JMS



From manish.j at gmx.net  Fri Jul 25 20:25:09 2003
From: manish.j at gmx.net (Manish Jethani)
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 05:55:09 +0530
Subject: decimal to binary
In-Reply-To: <KyiUa.15932$Df5.411294@news1.tin.it>
References: <Dh9Ua.13488$Df5.327750@news1.tin.it> <200307250653.18754.gherron@islandtraining.com> <mailman.1059141458.1696.python-list@python.org> <k%eUa.24457$Za4.615290@news2.tin.it> <RNgUa.11$gZ.241@news.oracle.com> <KyiUa.15932$Df5.411294@news1.tin.it>
Message-ID: <C1kUa.15$gZ.211@news.oracle.com>

manuel wrote:

>>if listByte[17] & (1 << 3):
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> But I don't understand completely the meaning of
> & (1 << 3)

(1 << 3) will left-shift 1 by 3 bits

00000000 00000000 00000000 00000001

giving you 8

00000000 00000000 00000000 00001000

Then you AND your number (25, for example) with 8

00000000 00000000 00000000 00011001
00000000 00000000 00000000 00001000
-----------------------------------
00000000 00000000 00000000 00001000

if you get a non-zero value, then the bit is set.

If your number is 23

00000000 00000000 00000000 00010111
00000000 00000000 00000000 00001000
-----------------------------------
00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000

then the result of the AND is 0, and that means the bit is not set.

> Can you suggest me a page in python on line manual,
> or a tutorial?

See the section on bit-wise operations in the Python Reference
Manual.

-Manish

-- 
Manish Jethani (manish.j at gmx.net)
phone (work) +91-80-51073488




From bokr at oz.net  Wed Jul  9 19:44:02 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 9 Jul 2003 23:44:02 GMT
Subject: Deleting specific characters from a string
References: <begfb3$7j6$1@online.de> <3F0C851C.4000500@livinglogic.de> <3F0C8AC3.5010304@dadsetan.com>
Message-ID: <bei9c2$gvs$0@216.39.172.122>

On Wed, 09 Jul 2003 23:36:03 +0200, Behrang Dadsetan <ben at dadsetan.com> wrote:

>Walter D?rwald wrote:
>
>> Behrang Dadsetan wrote:
>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> I would like deleting specific characters from a string.
>>> As an example, I would like to delete all of the '@' '&' in the 
>>> string 'You are ben at orange?enter&your&code' so that it becomes 
>>> 'benorange?enteryourcode'.
>>>
>>> So far I have been doing it like:
>>> str = 'You are ben at orange?enter&your&code'
>>> str = ''.join([ c for c in str if c not in ('@', '&')])
>>>
>>> but that looks so ugly.. I am hoping to see nicer examples to acheive 
>>> the above..
>>
>>
>> What about the following:
>>
>> str = 'You are ben at orange?enter&your&code'
>> str = filter(lambda c: c not in "@&", str)
Aaack! I cringe seeing builtin str name rebound like that ;-/

>>
>> Bye,
>>    Walter D?rwald 
>
>def isAcceptableChar(character):
>    return charachter in "@&"
     return character not in "@&"
>
>str = filter(isAcceptableChar, str)
>
>is going to finally be what I am going to use.
That's not going to be anywhere near as fast as Donn's translate version.

>I not feel lambdas are so readable, unless one has serious experience in 
>using them and python in general. I feel it is acceptable to add a named 
>method that documents with its name what it is doing there.
>
>But your example would probably have been my choice if I was more 
>familiar with that type of use and the potential readers of my code were 
>also familiar with it. Many thanks!
>
IMO, if you are going to define a function like isAcceptableChar, only to use it
with filter, why not write a function to do the whole job, and whose invocation
reads well, while hiding Donn's fast translate version? E.g., substituting the literal
value of string.maketrans('',''):

====< removechars.py >========================================================
def removeChars(s, remove=''):
    return s.translate(
        '\x00\x01\x02\x03\x04\x05\x06\x07\x08\t\n\x0b\x0c\r\x0e\x0f'
        '\x10\x11\x12\x13\x14\x15\x16\x17\x18\x19\x1a\x1b\x1c\x1d\x1e\x1f'
        ' !"#$%&\'()*+,-./'
        '0123456789:;<=>?'
        '@ABCDEFGHIJKLMNO'
        'PQRSTUVWXYZ[\\]^_'
        '`abcdefghijklmno'
        'pqrstuvwxyz{|}~\x7f'
        '\x80\x81\x82\x83\x84\x85\x86\x87\x88\x89\x8a\x8b\x8c\x8d\x8e\x8f'
        '\x90\x91\x92\x93\x94\x95\x96\x97\x98\x99\x9a\x9b\x9c\x9d\x9e\x9f'
        '\xa0\xa1\xa2\xa3\xa4\xa5\xa6\xa7\xa8\xa9\xaa\xab\xac\xad\xae\xaf'
        '\xb0\xb1\xb2\xb3\xb4\xb5\xb6\xb7\xb8\xb9\xba\xbb\xbc\xbd\xbe\xbf'
        '\xc0\xc1\xc2\xc3\xc4\xc5\xc6\xc7\xc8\xc9\xca\xcb\xcc\xcd\xce\xcf'
        '\xd0\xd1\xd2\xd3\xd4\xd5\xd6\xd7\xd8\xd9\xda\xdb\xdc\xdd\xde\xdf'
        '\xe0\xe1\xe2\xe3\xe4\xe5\xe6\xe7\xe8\xe9\xea\xeb\xec\xed\xee\xef'
        '\xf0\xf1\xf2\xf3\xf4\xf5\xf6\xf7\xf8\xf9\xfa\xfb\xfc\xfd\xfe\xff'
        , remove)

if __name__ == '__main__':
    import sys
    args = sys.argv[1:]
    fin = sys.stdin; fout=sys.stdout; remove='' # defaults
    while args:
        arg = args.pop(0)
        if arg == '-fi': fin  = file(args.pop(0))
        elif arg == '-fo': fout = file(args.pop(0))
        else: remove = arg
    for line in fin:
        fout.write(removeChars(line, remove))
==============================================================================
Not tested beyond what you see here ;-)

 [16:40] C:\pywk\ut>echo "'You are ben at orange?enter&your&code'" |python removechars.py "@&"
 "'You are benorange?enteryourcode'" 

 [16:41] C:\pywk\ut>echo "'You are ben at orange?enter&your&code'" |python removechars.py aeiou
 "'Y r bn at rng?ntr&yr&cd'"

Copying a snip above to the clipboard and filtering that with no removes and then (lower case) vowels:

 [16:41] C:\pywk\ut>getclip |python removechars.py
 >I not feel lambdas are so readable, unless one has serious experience in
 >using them and python in general. I feel it is acceptable to add a named
 >method that documents with its name what it is doing there.
 >
 >But your example would probably have been my choice if I was more
 >familiar with that type of use and the potential readers of my code were
 >also familiar with it. Many thanks!

 [16:42] C:\pywk\ut>getclip |python removechars.py aeiou
 >I nt fl lmbds r s rdbl, nlss n hs srs xprnc n
 >sng thm nd pythn n gnrl. I fl t s ccptbl t dd  nmd
 >mthd tht dcmnts wth ts nm wht t s dng thr.
 >
 >Bt yr xmpl wld prbbly hv bn my chc f I ws mr
 >fmlr wth tht typ f s nd th ptntl rdrs f my cd wr
 >ls fmlr wth t. Mny thnks!


Regards,
Bengt Richter



From m at moshez.org  Wed Jul 16 13:51:20 2003
From: m at moshez.org (Moshe Zadka)
Date: 16 Jul 2003 17:51:20 -0000
Subject: anything like C++ references?
In-Reply-To: <1058377188.3f158de4a3a51@mcherm.com>
References: <1058377188.3f158de4a3a51@mcherm.com>
Message-ID: <20030716175120.17884.qmail@green.zadka.com>

On Wed, 16 Jul 2003, Michael Chermside <mcherm at mcherm.com> wrote:

>     stuff[i] = newComplexObject(i++, "name", "fred")

I'm not entirely sure that C code is not undefined. I think it
is, but it could be that I'm mistaken and that "=" is a "sequence point".
It's a variant on the old

a[i]=i++ 

thing. The problem here is that it's not certain what happens first --
the a[i] (evalating to an lvalue) or i++. Since an optimizing compiler
might even put both instruction in a single pipeline, it could be that
i is neither the old value or the new value at all by the time a[i]
is on the stack. In fact, the C standard, if I'm right, gives the C
compiler carte blanche to do whatever it feels like doing.

In Python, you'd've been forced to write

i+=1
stuff[i] = nCO(i)

or

stuff[i] = nCO(i)
i+=1

or

j,i=i,i+1
stuff[i] = nCO(j)

depending on what you meant.
-- 
Moshe Zadka -- http://moshez.org/
Buffy: I don't like you hanging out with someone that... short.
Riley: Yeah, a lot of young people nowadays are experimenting with shortness.
Agile Programming Language -- http://www.python.org/




From adalke at mindspring.com  Wed Jul 30 22:14:23 2003
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 20:14:23 -0600
Subject: python in parallel for pattern discovery in genome data
References: <mailman.1059564044.30278.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bg9tq6$8jq$1@slb9.atl.mindspring.net>

BalyanM:
> I am interested to run python on a sun machine(SunE420R,os=solaris)
> with 4 cpu's for a pattern discovery/search program on biological
> sequence(genomic sequence).I want to write the python code so that it
> utilizes all the 4 cpu's.

  *oomphh*

There's a lot of details buried in your lines.

It looks like you will be writing your own pattern matching code.
Why?  There are plenty of tools for that already.  A quick web
search finds http://genome.imb-jena.de/seqanal.html and many
of those tools are freely available.

Okay, suppose you do have the tool or library for it.  Do you
want to do high throughput searches?  Then you can just break
your N jobs into N/4 parts, one per machine.  Easiest way in
Python is to run 4 Python programs, each with a little server going
(see the xmlrpc module for an example) and have your code
call them (see Aahz's excellent example of master/slave
programming using threads).  Other options for the communications
are Twisted and Pyro.

You will not be able to do this with one Python process because
Python has what's called the "global interpreter lock" that
prevents core Python from effectively using multiple processors.
You can write a C extension which does the search and gives
up the lock, but I you seem to want to do this in raw Python.

(The suggestion to look at POSH won't work - it has some
Intel-specific assembly instructions in the C extension.)

Depending on the type of pattern search, you instead can assign
1/4 of the genome to each process, with overlap if needed.  This
will speed up a single search, which is good for interactivity.

These work for a single "user" of the code.  Might you have
many people trying to do pattern searches?  If so, you may
need some way to throttle how many searches are done per
machine.  For in-house use this likely isn't a problem - besides,
you should get your code working first.

There are other approaches.  You could use shared memory or
CORBA for the communications, or PVM or MPI.  Still, given
your experience, you should:
  1) get your algorithm working on one machine
  2) get it working as a client/server using XML-RPC (see the
       SimpleXMLRPCServer and xmlrpclib modules),
  3) get your client to work with multiple servers,
          using multiple threads in the client

(It's a bit of my experience too - I really should try Pyro
for this sort of work.  Well, I need a break so maybe I'll
try it out tonight ;)

There are a lot of skills to learn before it all works, so don't
get too discouraged too quickly.

                    Andrew
                    dalke at dalkescientific.com





From mwh at python.net  Fri Jul 18 12:48:03 2003
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 16:48:03 GMT
Subject: How to identify the method that has called another method ?
References: <764b8294.0307180620.37781a4@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <7h34r1j23g1.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

martin_a_clausen at hotmail.com (Mars) writes:

> I am using Python 2.2.3 and new-style classes. I want to implement a
> static factory method to build objects for me. My plan is to have
> __init__ check that it has been called from said factory method and
> not directly. Is there a elegant way of achieving this ?

No.  sys.getframe(1).f_code.co_name might be a start.

> (and is this a silly idea in general ?)

I've always disliked trying to disallow this kind of abuse -- it's
very hard to make it impossible, and I think you're better off just
documenting the restrictions.

Note that you might want to investigate __new__() by the sounds of
it...

Cheers,
M.

-- 
31. Simplicity does not precede complexity, but follows it.
  -- Alan Perlis, http://www.cs.yale.edu/homes/perlis-alan/quotes.html



From tim at remove_if_not_spam.digitig.co.uk  Wed Jul 16 11:13:11 2003
From: tim at remove_if_not_spam.digitig.co.uk (Tim Rowe)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 16:13:11 +0100
Subject: Numarray for Python 2.3
Message-ID: <gqqahv09j8n5cr9e42v4pk74temcomdjul@4ax.com>

Does numarray-0.5.win32-py2.2.exe work with Python 2.3?  If not, is
there a version that will?

Tia,

Tim



From ianb at colorstudy.com  Sat Jul  5 16:49:26 2003
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: 05 Jul 2003 15:49:26 -0500
Subject: Calculating Year, Month and Day of Life
In-Reply-To: <be72ph$k60$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
References: <be72ph$k60$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <1057438165.514.161.camel@lothlorien>

On Sat, 2003-07-05 at 12:48, hokiegal99 wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> I am a funeral director trying to write a small program that calculates 
> the number of years, months and days a person has lived by entering the 
> year, month and day of their birth. This is what I have so far:

You might want to look at mxDateTime, or Python 2.3's datetime module,
which will probably provide functions to make this calculation
significantly easier -- counting days in years, adjusting for leap
years, etc.  Well, that's if you want to be exact, which may not really
be important.

  Ian






From rich at mchsi.com  Tue Jul 29 23:58:10 2003
From: rich at mchsi.com (Rich)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 03:58:10 GMT
Subject: how best to handle httplib timeouts ?
Message-ID: <mnHVa.9399$Oz4.2070@rwcrnsc54>

Hi all,

I'm trying to write an app to monitor an IIS server, by connecting and
getting a page via httplib. the problem seems to be when IIS (or ASP) dies
httplib does not always return and sometimes I'm left with an app that
hangs. what is the best way to handle this ?

thanks,
rich.

the code looks like this:

try:
    res = h.getresponse()
    dat = res.read()
    sFlag = sFlag + 1
except:
    if debug > 0:
        WriteLog(' Error receiving a response from 2nd mailbox page
request')
    h.close()
    return sFlag






From remi at cherrypy.org  Mon Jul 28 05:59:05 2003
From: remi at cherrypy.org (Remi Delon)
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 10:59:05 +0100
Subject: Web tool kit : pro - cons ?
References: <3f23003f$0$266$ba620e4c@reader0.news.skynet.be>
Message-ID: <3f24f3f7@shknews01>

> I've read the doc of most  of them, I've tested some of them.
> But, is there anyone "experienced user" who can give the pro-cons for each
> of those solutions ? (or propose an another)

The problem is that most people are "experienced users" with only a few of
the frameworks.
In order to find out all the little caveats of a perticular framework, one
has to use it for quite a big project (I'd say at least 6 months).
I don't think any of us have developed such big projects with more than,
say, 2 or 3 python frameworks. (in my case, I've only used Zope and CherryPy
for "real" applications. I've only "played" with the other frameworks).
This is why it is hard to have one person make a comparison of all the
frameworks ...

Having said that, I think that CherryPy definitely meets your
requirements... (sorry, I couldn't help saying it :-)))

Remi.     remi at cherrypy.org
----------------------
Specialized python hosting: http://www.python-hosting.com
CherryPy application server: http://www.cherrypy.org
Free CherryPy hosting: http://www.freecherrypy.org
----------------------





From gradha at titanium.sabren.com  Sat Jul 26 06:15:06 2003
From: gradha at titanium.sabren.com (Grzegorz Adam Hankiewicz)
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 12:15:06 +0200
Subject: ANN: mailbox_date_trimmer 1.0.1 -- Correct emails' date headers in a mailbox archive.
Message-ID: <20030726101506.GA1467@pedos.es>

Changes

   Improved documentation. Removed stdin pipe detection hack. Many
   small date parsing errors found and fixed after running the
   program over 500 MB of mailing list archives.

Scenario description

   You are a mailing list administrator, or you are somebody who
   keeps mailing list archives for a user group, or you just have
   a fetish for email archives. Now, don't you always wonder why
   after running Hypermail or MHonArc on your archives you always
   have some emails which date back to 1980 or far away in the
   future like 2011, even though you started collecting emails in
   the year 2000 and it's still this very same year? While there
   are many answers to this question, there is a very easy way to
   fix many, if not all, of these messages, which results in a much
   more consistent email archive without broken discussion threads.

Software requisites

   This software requires Python (http://www.python.org). It is
   known to work with versions 1.5.2 or 2.2.3. You also need my
   mailbox_reader module, which you should be able to get from:

   http://gradha.sdf-eu.org/program/mailbox_reader.en.html

Download

   http://gradha.sdf-eu.org/program/mailbox_date_trimmer.en.html

License

   GPL

-- 
 Please don't send me private copies of your public answers. Thanks.




From alex.lapp at bpanet.de  Thu Jul 17 04:34:13 2003
From: alex.lapp at bpanet.de (Alex Lapp)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 10:34:13 +0200
Subject: Problems installing cvs / errno?
Message-ID: <3F165F85.702@bpanet.de>

Hi ng,

i have a problem installing cvs module from:
http://www.object-craft.com.au/projects/csv/

My Python version is: Python 2.1.3
(Not the latest, but i need this version for running Zope Application 
Server)

I downloaded the package (csv-1.0) and tried to install with python 
setup.py install. But i got following errormessages:

-snip-
running install
running build
running build_ext
building 'csv' extension
skipping csv.c (build/temp.freebsd-4.8-RELEASE-i386-2.1/csv.o up-to-date)
cc -shared -pthread build/temp.freebsd-4.8-RELEASE-i386-2.1/csv.o -o 
build/lib.freebsd-4.8-RELEASE-i386-2.1/csv.so
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "setup.py", line 63, in ?
     license = 'BSD - see file LICENCE',
   File "/usr/local/lib/python2.1/distutils/core.py", line 138, in setup
     dist.run_commands()
   File "/usr/local/lib/python2.1/distutils/dist.py", line 899, in 
run_commands
     self.run_command(cmd)
   File "/usr/local/lib/python2.1/distutils/dist.py", line 919, in 
run_command
     cmd_obj.run()
   File "/usr/local/lib/python2.1/distutils/command/install.py", line 
480, in run
     self.run_command('build')
   File "/usr/local/lib/python2.1/distutils/cmd.py", line 328, in 
run_command
     self.distribution.run_command(command)
   File "/usr/local/lib/python2.1/distutils/dist.py", line 919, in 
run_command
     cmd_obj.run()
   File "/usr/local/lib/python2.1/distutils/command/build.py", line 106, 
in run
     self.run_command(cmd_name)
   File "/usr/local/lib/python2.1/distutils/cmd.py", line 328, in 
run_command
     self.distribution.run_command(command)
   File "/usr/local/lib/python2.1/distutils/dist.py", line 919, in 
run_command
     cmd_obj.run()
   File "/usr/local/lib/python2.1/distutils/command/build_ext.py", line 
256, in run
     self.build_extensions()
   File "/usr/local/lib/python2.1/distutils/command/build_ext.py", line 
383, in build_extensions
     self.build_extension(ext)
   File "/usr/local/lib/python2.1/distutils/command/build_ext.py", line 
475, in build_extension
     build_temp=self.build_temp)
   File "/usr/local/lib/python2.1/distutils/ccompiler.py", line 663, in 
link_shared_object
     extra_preargs, extra_postargs, build_temp)
   File "/usr/local/lib/python2.1/distutils/unixccompiler.py", line 235, 
in link
     self.spawn(self.linker_so + ld_args)
   File "/usr/local/lib/python2.1/distutils/ccompiler.py", line 826, in 
spawn
     spawn (cmd, verbose=self.verbose, dry_run=self.dry_run)
   File "/usr/local/lib/python2.1/distutils/spawn.py", line 38, in spawn
     _spawn_posix(cmd, search_path, verbose, dry_run)
   File "/usr/local/lib/python2.1/distutils/spawn.py", line 108, in 
_spawn_posix
     exec_fn(cmd[0], cmd)
   File "/usr/local/lib/python2.1/os.py", line 291, in execvp
     _execvpe(file, args)
   File "/usr/local/lib/python2.1/os.py", line 305, in _execvpe
     from errno import ENOENT, ENOTDIR
ImportError: No module named errno
error: command 'cc' failed with exit status 1
-snip-

Is there a problem with the errno module? Can i install the module 
manually. I can compile the csv.c code manual to a csv.o object. How can 
i compile the source to a python object?

Any other ideas?

Thanks and forgive my bad english, ;)
Alex




From mkc at stowers-institute.org  Wed Jul  2 10:50:03 2003
From: mkc at stowers-institute.org (Michael Coleman)
Date: 02 Jul 2003 09:50:03 -0500
Subject: os.fork() different in cgi-script?
References: <bdudn2$11c3gt$1@fu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <85adbxouec.fsf@stowers-institute.org>

"Andreas Kuntzagk" <andreas.kuntzagk at mdc-berlin.de> writes:
> def main():
>     print "Content-Type: text/plain\n\n"
>     print os.getpid()
> 
>     childPID = os.fork()
>     if childPID == 0:
>         sys.exit()
>     else:
>         os.wait()
>     
> if __name__ == "__main__":
>     main()
> 
> when run on a shell, gives the result:
> ---------------------------
> Content-Type: text/plain
> 
> 
> 20953
> ----------------------------
> 
> but run as a cgi-script it gives:
> ---------------------------
> 21039
> Content-Type: text/plain
> 
> 
> 21039
> ---------------------------
> So it looks the main() is run 2 times. 
> Is it so? And if yes, why?

Probably because stdout is being buffered here.  The pid got written in the buffer (but not yet actually printed), then the process was forked, then the buffer got flushed (written out) by each child.

One solution would be to make sure everything is flushed before you fork.

Mike

-- 
Mike Coleman, Scientific Programmer, +1 816 926 4419
Stowers Institute for Biomedical Research
1000 E. 50th St., Kansas City, MO  64110



From ianb at colorstudy.com  Sun Jul 13 21:18:25 2003
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: 13 Jul 2003 20:18:25 -0500
Subject: anything like C++ references?
In-Reply-To: <m365m6ul5c.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
References: <b8c3hvsesjoumiboobml3nsnajtha99mp1@4ax.com>
	 <mailman.1058129901.28248.python-list@python.org>
	 <plk3hv0s1m2egf4s34jo6vjedk0q8r2mu9@4ax.com>
	 <m365m6ul5c.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <1058145504.28467.499.camel@lothlorien>

I don't know why I'm participating, but it's feels hard to stay out of
this one...

On Sun, 2003-07-13 at 17:17, Martin v. L?wis wrote
> > 3.  Why is there no way to reference an immutable object via a
> > pointer, other than stuffing it into a mutable object designed for
> > some purpose other than simple pointer behaviour?
> 
> But there is: If I do
> 
> a = 1
> b = a
> 
> then b *refers* the same value that a refers to. That is, the values
> associated with a and b have the same identity.

I think, then, that Stephen maybe wants to do something like:

>>> a = ref(1)
>>> b = a
>>> b is a
True
>>> a + 2
3
>>> a = 5
>>> b
5

And so on.  This is all quite doable in Python (implementation of ref
left to the reader), except for the "a = 5" part.  Instead you'd have to
do something like "a.set(5)".  Even though it is doable, of course, it's
by way of clever hacks.

The problem that Stephen is not appreciating is that this sort of
reference implies that "a" is a typed variable -- of type "pointer",
somehow implicitly declared when it was initially assigned a ref
object.  (He's not alone, because just a little while ago someone
proposed a way to overload the meaning of "=", to achieve largely the
same functionality)  

It might not be quite as ugly-seeming if we explicitly declared "a" as a
pointer.  Besides the disinclination of people to add variable
declarations (though "global" already is one), it's more difficult
because there's now a new type that has to be usable everywhere, the
pointer type.  All Python's code that expected, say, integers would have
to also be ready to dereference the argument and then use it.  It could
probably be made seamless at the Python level fairly easily, but the C
would be annoying, no doubt.

One might think you could just use the references that already exists
(since variables are references, and everything is passed by
reference).  But that's messed up, because that'd mean:

>>> b = 2
>>> pointer a
>>> a = 2
>>> a is b
True
>>> a = 5
>>> b
5

The ability to redefine the integers is obviously not a good feature
(though I remember someone saying you can accidentally do some stuff
like this in C extensions).

Anyway, that's my attempt at empathy with Stephen, if not agreement.  If
he is wanting something other than what I've described, he should give
other examples, because code examples are better than words.

  Ian






From jhefferon at smcvt.edu  Fri Jul  4 07:25:47 2003
From: jhefferon at smcvt.edu (Jim Hefferon)
Date: 4 Jul 2003 04:25:47 -0700
Subject: When is unit-testing bad?
References: <3EEE1210.3004AB45@engcorp.com> <878ys06tcv.fsf_-_@pobox.com> <vf11j7l3f0ku52@news.supernews.com> <87of0pno5s.fsf@titan.staselog.com> <vg40uajdqo3ac4@corp.supernews.com> <bdunoh$1pms$1@biggoron.nerim.net> <87k7azdber.fsf@titan.staselog.com> <pan.2003.07.03.22.06.36.253215@jerf.org>
Message-ID: <545cb8c2.0307040325.49bcfaf8@posting.google.com>

"Jeremy Bowers" <jerf at jerf.org> wrote
> We're using mod_perl, and I'm using Test::Unit, which is a testing
> framework for Perl deliberately set up to look like JUnit, as Python's
> unittest is. What I'm doing is implementing an Apache Request faked-up
> object (which I later found existed in the form of the Perl module
> Apache::FakeRequest, but I think my own solution is better suited to our
> needs anyhow), and then going ahead and calling the Apache handlers
> directly with that object. It's tedious to construct the object if you
> can't find one pre-made, but it's easy.
> 
Does anyone know of a place where I could see a sample of doing this
under Python?

Thanks in advance
Jim



From scottholmes at sbcglobal.net  Tue Jul 29 19:54:01 2003
From: scottholmes at sbcglobal.net (Scott Holmes)
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 16:54:01 -0700
Subject: Looking for recommendations
Message-ID: <3F270919.9050308@sbcglobal.net>

I've yet to write anything worthwhile with Python, but I have been 
working my way through the O'Reilly books and scanning this list.  I am 
considering porting a legal case management system to python and would 
like some input as to the best configuration of modules and interfaces 
for this.  I wish to use PostgreSQL for a database engine and tie into 
OpenOffice as well.  I need to be able to develop a suite of GUI 
programs with a fairly large number of pull down lists, browse screens, 
header/detail screens and the ability to jump between programs and back 
again without loosing state.

This legal system has been around for many years as an Informix 4GL 
system on SCO.  A few years ago it was ported to a now defunct Windows 
based language, an Informix and a PostgreSQL version were produced.  I 
need to be able to produce a suite of programs portable to Linux, 
Windows and Apple if at all possible.

Life on multiple learning curves is stressful, so I would appreciate any 
pointers to similar applications.  I've noticed a few but am concerned 
about commiting to particular optional modules.

I'm currently working on a RedHat 7.2 with three versions of Python. 
The latest being 2.2 that I installed myself.  I have tk 8.3

Thanks in advance...
-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Scott Holmes                   http://sholmes.ws
                                http://pages.sbcglobal.net/scottholmes
                                scottholmes at sbcglobal.net

   Independent Programmer/Analyst                  Passport 4GL
   PHP HTML Composer                PostgreSQL     Informix 4GL, SQL
---------------------------------------------------------------------
       There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
              than are dreamt of in your philosophy
---------------------------------------------------------------------





From dkuhlman at rexx.com  Fri Jul 18 20:29:59 2003
From: dkuhlman at rexx.com (Dave Kuhlman)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 17:29:59 -0700
Subject: ANN: zip-ls -- Zip file listing program
Message-ID: <bfa3e8$ctqja$1@ID-139865.news.uni-berlin.de>

I've implemented a Zip file listing program that gives me some of
the listing and formatting options that I've wanted from "unzip
-l" and "unzip -Z".  It's written in Python using the zipfile
module from the Python standard library.

You can find it here:

    http://www.rexx.com/~dkuhlman/#zip-ls
    http://www.rexx.com/~dkuhlman/zip-ls.html
    http://www.rexx.com/~dkuhlman/zip-ls.zip

What is it?

*zip-ls* lists the contents of Zip files.  It provides controls
over which columns are displayed, whether totals are displayed,
sorting on various columns, etc.  *zip-ls* uses a configuration
file (~/.zip-lsrc), which enables the user to specify default
settings for command-line flags.

*zip-ls* is written in Python, making it very customizable.

If you have suggestions or need help with it, please let me know.

 - Dave


-- 
Dave Kuhlman
http://www.rexx.com/~dkuhlman
dkuhlman at rexx.com



From max at alcyone.com  Tue Jul 15 20:29:29 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 17:29:29 -0700
Subject: anything like C++ references?
References: <b8c3hvsesjoumiboobml3nsnajtha99mp1@4ax.com> <mailman.1058129901.28248.python-list@python.org> <plk3hv0s1m2egf4s34jo6vjedk0q8r2mu9@4ax.com> <hflQa.48826$wk6.12216@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net> <rp94hvc8fg6h91oe7ctqq9jn9ku3nlud1k@4ax.com> <slrnbh6fbc.72v.kamikaze@kuoi.asui.uidaho.edu> <tdo6hvo40qaga46ekamfe65opn2aaa9b41@4ax.com> <slrnbh7l94.mti.kamikaze@kuoi.asui.uidaho.edu> <frn8hvggtom4vqen1s0ktr1hijfm9cvfe7@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3F149C69.7B990210@alcyone.com>

Stephen Horne wrote:
> 
> On 15 Jul 2003 10:19:18 GMT, kamikaze at kuoi.asui.uidaho.edu (Mark
> 'Kamikaze' Hughes) wrote:
> 
> >> Really. My computer science lessons were taught in a way that
> >> respected the source of most of the theory in mathematics -
> >> algorithms, Church's lambda calculus and that kind of stuff.
> >> What did your lessons teach?
> >
> >  How computer programming actually works, how to make interpreted and
> >compiled languages, how to use them to solve problems, how to analyze
> >algorithms, etc....  The usual.
> 
> You say that as if it contradicts the idea of respecting the source of
> the theory. It doesn't.
> 
> >  Among those were classes in languages
> >other than C, which is very broadening, and I highly recommend that to
> >you.
> 
> Lets see.
> 
> Probably about a dozen basics, five assembler languages (6502, z80,
> 68000 series, 8086 series, 80C196KC microcontroller), forth, lisp,
> prolog, miranda, haskell, icon, ada, pascal, modula 2, cobol,
> smalltalk. Not all of them very seriously, though, and in many cases
> not recently.
> 
> I forget the name of that language designed for transputers, but I
> used that a bit at college too - and depending on your inclination you
> may want to include SQL. And yes, I have used C, C++ and Java as well.
> 
> That's just off the top of my head, of course.
> 
> But there's no way you can call me C centric. That has been a repeated
> accusation, but it is WRONG.
> 
> Python has been an everyday language for me LONGER than C++ has.
> 
> >> Respect the idea of variables binding to values and suddenly the need
> >> for pointers becomes more obvious. You cannot abuse mutable objects to
> >> fake pointer functionality (another everyday fact of Python
> >> programming) if the binding of variables to values (rather than just
> >> objects) is respected.
> >
> >  If you're trying to say that the trick I showed you of modifying a
> >list to reproduce the effect of reference arguments is not possible in,
> >say, C, you're wrong.  Trivially proven wrong, even, since Python is
> >implemented in C.  In fact, the only languages where that won't work are
> >those which don't allow passing complex arguments at all; some
> >pure-functional toy languages, perhaps.
> 
> Distorting what I said, again. I have already repeatedly said that the
> point about C is what happens by default - not what happens when you
> explicitly request otherwise.
> 
> Lets take an example from C++ to illustrate the point.
> 
>   std::string x = "123";
>   std::string y = x;
> 
>   //  At this point, in most implementations, x and y are bound to the
>   //  same object due to a lazy copy optimisation. However, the
>   //  programmer didn't request this optimisation so this
>   //  implementation detail is expected to be transparent to the user.
>   //  Therefore...
> 
>   y [2] = 4;
> 
>   //  Before doing this operation, a copy was made - the so called
>   //  copy on write.
>   //  The value bound to x is still "123"
>   //  The value bound to y is now "124"
> 
> C++ is using references here just as Python does, but despite being a
> crappy low level language it still manages to implement that without
> causing remote side-effects through mutability *unless* you explicitly
> request that.

But (ignoring for the moment Tom's point about this not really being
true in modern implementations) that's really an implementation detail
and is unimportant.  C has copy semantics; whether it's optimizes some
away when they're not necessary is an implementation detail that is
unimportant from the programmer's perspective.

I did something very similar in a stack-based language I designed (and
implemented partially in C, and then more extensively in Python).  There
are no pointers or references, only objects.  All objects are distinct;
changing one never affects any others.  But since this is a stack-based
language, there's lots of duplicating things on stack for the purposes
of a computation.  As an implementation detail (and since I basically
got it for free in Python since all Python objects do the reference
counting for me), if you duplicate an object, I actually duplicate a
reference to it internally.  If you mutate an object, then it mutates it
if there are no other references to it, but does an actual duplication
and then mutates that if there are -- so it implements lazy copying. 
But the fact this is done at all is completely and utterly and
implementation detail.  From the programmer's point of view, it makes no
difference.

Python does _not_ have copy semantics, it has binding semantics.  As a
reversed example, when multiple bindings exist to the same immutable
object, it's an implementation detail whether or not those really are
all to the same object.  You don't care, because you know its value
can't change.

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ Nine worlds I remember.
\__/  Icelandic Edda of Snorri Sturluson



From adalke at mindspring.com  Mon Jul  7 16:55:35 2003
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 14:55:35 -0600
Subject: anything new on the ternary operator?
References: <hEaC/kKkXUtC092yn@gnosis.cx>, <3F09252F.9B0F52BD@alcyone.com>, <mailman.1057533670.9800.python-list@python.org> <beae42$d01$1@panix2.panix.com> <mailman.1057574950.16136.python-list@python.org> <mailman.1057600474.19859.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <becmfs$648$1@slb3.atl.mindspring.net>

Moshe Zadka:
> Well, to be quite honest, there were some "New Europe" attendees. The
> most excellent Lithuanians, and yours truly.

As well as some of us 'mericans.  6, if I interpreted the stats correctly.

                    Andrew
                    dalke at dalkescientific.com





From oren at REMOVETHIS1.hishome.net  Mon Jul 21 11:04:59 2003
From: oren at REMOVETHIS1.hishome.net (Oren Tirosh)
Date: 21 Jul 2003 08:04:59 -0700
Subject: [OT] On the TimBot
References: <62slgvsljos7v5snie6toc4qucv5nt1n15@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <cf052f0d.0307210704.3f0b052c@posting.google.com>

Christos "TZOTZIOY" Georgiou <tzot at sil-tec.gr> wrote in message news:<62slgvsljos7v5snie6toc4qucv5nt1n15 at 4ax.com>...
...
> 3. To "Tron" fans: yes, you could assign the name TimBit to it, but it's
> a broken Bit; what's the use of a Bit that's always true?

Henry Spencer is well known around the sci.space.* newsgroups for
being very rarely wrong. About as rarely as the TimBot. People that
manage to correct Henry get the coveted "I Corrected Henry" virtual
T-shirt.

May I propose the "I Corrected Timbot" award?



From omega at silvreus.eu.org  Mon Jul 14 08:34:48 2003
From: omega at silvreus.eu.org (OM)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 14:34:48 +0200
Subject: training for newbies
References: <betqim$8re$1@atlantis.news.tpi.pl> <betv87$4jq$1@atlantis.news.tpi.pl>
Message-ID: <beu851$hu$1@atlantis.news.tpi.pl>

U?ytkownik "Jarek Zgoda" <jzgoda at gazeta.usun.pl> napisa? w wiadomo?ci
news:betv87$4jq$1 at atlantis.news.tpi.pl...
> OM <omega at silvreus.eu.org> pisze:
>
> > do you know any sites with free programs for newbies, which will help me
in
> > progress? i know that only way to develop is writing programs, but in my
> > book i don't have programs to write, only questions..
>
> Check out http://www.uselesspython.com and Python Cookbook at
> http://aspn.activestate.com
>
>

Dzieki:] A polskie ?





From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Jul 24 19:17:02 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 19:17:02 -0400
Subject: OT, was: Re: needs a logo
References: <7fe97cc4.0307230144.9119f89@posting.google.com> <3f205ac9.745241690@news.blueyonder.co.uk>
Message-ID: <3F2068EE.8366B14F@engcorp.com>

Alan Gauld wrote:
> 
> This is way OT but...
> 
> On 23 Jul 2003 02:44:05 -0700, xah at xahlee.org (Xah Lee) wrote:
> 
> > Better logos should be reminiscent to what it represents. Good
> > example's are ... Shell's seashell,
> 
> I remember my grandfather telling me that the Shell  logo
> originated around WW2 time and it represented a shell exploding
> (message => dynamic powerful company) on a building
> and was in two colors. After the war it was deemed
> a bad marketing image to use warlike logos so they
> "re-badged" the company as being around sea shells and
> the logo changed to what we know today.
> 
> I've never seen any other reference to this anywhere.
> Does anyone know of a source (another grandfather?!)
> that can confirm or deny this?

Not exactly deny, but at a gallery/museum of design in Rotterdam, 
which I visited two months ago, there was an exhibit showing various
almost iconic products, including the Shell logo, complete with
history on their development, and no mention whatsoever was made
of this background.  Perhaps it was sanitized, but for what it's
worth...

-Peter



From max at alcyone.com  Fri Jul 18 00:57:36 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 21:57:36 -0700
Subject: A challenge to the ASCII proponents.
References: <mailman.1058278343.23104.python-list@python.org> <bf167a$pvt$1@panix2.panix.com> <ufzl7rdno.fsf@online.no> <3F142A58.80426AA4@hotmail.com> <2259b0e2.0307161620.4a9353f1@posting.google.com> <Xns93BB246FDDBCFJanC@213.118.75.80> <3F168011.3AEB3EFC@hotmail.com> <3F172442.2040907@v.loewis.de> <slrnbhea1p.3i2.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>
Message-ID: <3F177E40.6A5BFBB4@alcyone.com>

Ben Finney wrote:

> I think it looks like a series of identical question marks. 
> Presumably
> you wrote it using a character set my terminal isn't using, and you
> had
> no way of instructing my computer to use.

When you see the right number of question marks, that usually means
whatever's processing it knows it's dealing with Unicode, but can't
display the glyphs.  So your terminal knows the character set, it just
doesn't have the glyphs in the font it's using.

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ Wretches hang that jurymen may dine.
\__/  Alexander Pope



From ianb at colorstudy.com  Wed Jul  2 15:43:06 2003
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: 02 Jul 2003 14:43:06 -0500
Subject: What's the use of module spaces? (was Re: Circular Inheritance)
In-Reply-To: <bdus8k$qsq$1@panix1.panix.com>
References: <mailman.1057099023.14043.python-list@python.org>
	 <slrnbg4850.st5.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>
	 <mailman.1057124943.21695.python-list@python.org>
	 <bdus8k$qsq$1@panix1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <1057174986.726.166.camel@lothlorien>

On Wed, 2003-07-02 at 10:03, Aahz wrote:
> In article <mailman.1057124943.21695.python-list at python.org>,
> Ian Bicking  <ianb at colorstudy.com> wrote:
> >
> >You might encounter less problems if those classes go together in a
> >single module, but module boundaries are just there to help the
> >programmer organize code, they have little formal meaning.
> 
> That's not true.  Modules define a namespace, and Python's execution
> model makes heavy use of the "global" (read, current module's) namespace
> for name resolution.

Certainly modules have considerable *semantics* and effect execution. 
But they have little *meaning*.  There's all sorts of semantics
associated with classes, but that's incidental to the meaning of a class
-- a class is a set up behaviors common to a kind of object.  A module
is just a pile of stuff the programmer likes to keep together.  It's
essentially a clerical feature.

  Ian






From news at datatailors.xs4all.nl  Thu Jul 10 18:07:59 2003
From: news at datatailors.xs4all.nl (Peter van Kampen)
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 00:07:59 +0200
Subject: Parsing
References: <e5fb8973.0307100938.13fcea56@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <slrnbgrotv.brt.news@datatailors.com>

In article <e5fb8973.0307100938.13fcea56 at posting.google.com>, Michael wrote:
> I have been assigned a project to parse a webpage for data using
> Python. I have finished only basic tutorials. Any suggestions as to
> where I should go from here? Thanks in advance.


Try to be a little more specific. Parse for what? Links? Images? Tags?

Anyway. A good start might be the HTMLParser that comes with the
batteries since 2.2 if I remember correctly. See

http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/htmlparser-example.html

for a tiny example.

PterK

-- 
Peter van Kampen
pterk -- at -- datatailors.com



From stephen.boulet at motorola.com  Mon Jul 21 15:59:43 2003
From: stephen.boulet at motorola.com (Stephen Boulet)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 14:59:43 -0500
Subject: os.spawn[*] help
Message-ID: <bfhgmm$fmi$1@localhost.localdomain>

Can someone who understands the os module better than I offer some insight?

I want to open some text in xemacs (on Windows) using os.spawn[*], but I want 
the text to appear in the current xemacs window, as opposed to opening a new 
xemacs window.

Is this doable? Thanks.

-- Stephen




From alanmk at hotmail.com  Mon Jul 14 11:32:57 2003
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 16:32:57 +0100
Subject: Encoding error
References: <mailman.1058194640.7212.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3F12CD29.E0308BE0@hotmail.com>

Casey Kohrt wrote:
 
> I get the following error for the list item below.  I know I have to
> encode it, but am unsure how or where to write that in.  I am new to
> python and have had good luck thus far.  Any help is greatly
> apprecieated.  I am not on the list, so a response to me is
> appreciated.
> 
> UnicodeError: ASCII encoding error: ordinal not in range(128)
> 
>     eainfo = doc.createElement("eainfo")
>     metadata.appendChild(eainfo)
>     overview = doc.createElement("overview")
>     eainfo.appendChild(overview)
>     eaover = doc.createElement("eaover")
>     text = doc.createTextNode(str(list[83]))
>     eaover.appendChild(text)
>     overview.appendChild(eaover)

Hmm, the code that you posted has several errors, and doesn't run.
You'll find it much easier to get help if you post instances of
running code that is giving you a problem. Also, a description of what
you're trying to achieve would be most helpful.

Here is a version of your code where I have fixed the errors, which
may or may not do something related to what you want.

#=======================================
import xml.dom.minidom

doc = xml.dom.minidom.parseString('<metadata/>')
metadata = doc.documentElement
eainfo = doc.createElement("eainfo") 
metadata.appendChild(eainfo) 
overview = doc.createElement("overview") 
eainfo.appendChild(overview) 
eaover = doc.createElement("eaover") 
text = doc.createTextNode(chr(83)) 
#text = doc.createTextNode(' '*83) (?)
eaover.appendChild(text) 
overview.appendChild(eaover)
print doc.toxml()
#=======================================

If I haven't even come close, then you really need to post actual
running code that you're using, and tell us where it's going wrong for
you.

HTH,

-- 
alan kennedy
-----------------------------------------------------
check http headers here: http://xhaus.com/headers
email alan:              http://xhaus.com/mailto/alan



From ianb at colorstudy.com  Mon Jul  7 17:11:26 2003
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: 07 Jul 2003 16:11:26 -0500
Subject: Is there any solution  in PYTHON?
In-Reply-To: <3F09F032.20821.AC27E76@localhost>
References: <3F09F032.20821.AC27E76@localhost>
Message-ID: <1057612286.5348.331.camel@lothlorien>

On Mon, 2003-07-07 at 15:12, A wrote:
> Hi,
> I have a program that downloads some web pages. Sometimes there is a poor internet 
> connection and my script freezes( hangs) and does not download ALL pages.
> Is there any solution how to test if the program works and if not re-start it from the point 
> where it stopped?
> Or simply how to download ALL pages eventhough there is a timeout connection( can be 
> of any value)?

Here ya' go:

class Timeout(Exception): pass

def timeout(time, func, *args):

   def timeout_handler(signum, frame):
      raise Timeout
   
   signal.signal(signal.SIGALRM, timeout_handler)
   signal.alarm(time)
   val = func(*args)
   signal.alarm(0)
   return val


To use:

def try_get_page(url):
    # get the page, may block

def get_page(url):
    while 1:
        try:
            page = timeout(10, try_get_page, url)
        except Timeout:
            pass
        else:
            return page


Note that this will not work in a multithreaded environment due to the
nature of the alarm signal.

  Ian






From jepler at unpythonic.net  Tue Jul 22 16:48:20 2003
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 15:48:20 -0500
Subject: A challenge to the ASCII proponents.
In-Reply-To: <60dfb6f6.0307201951.4eea1930@posting.google.com>
References: <mailman.1058278343.23104.python-list@python.org> <bf167a$pvt$1@panix2.panix.com> <ufzl7rdno.fsf@online.no> <3F142A58.80426AA4@hotmail.com> <2259b0e2.0307161620.4a9353f1@posting.google.com> <Xns93BB246FDDBCFJanC@213.118.75.80> <3F168011.3AEB3EFC@hotmail.com> <60dfb6f6.0307201951.4eea1930@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20030722204816.GB11779@unpythonic.net>

Carl,
didn't work in my screen-reading program.

"minus minus minus minus (pause) minus minus ..."'ly yours,
Jeff




From irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl  Thu Jul 24 18:12:43 2003
From: irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 00:12:43 +0200
Subject: Don't want to do the regexp test twice
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1059083242.32477.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1059083242.32477.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3f2059da$0$49114$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

Egbert Bouwman wrote:

> While looping over a long list (with file records)
> I use an (also long) if..elif sequence.
> One of these elif's tests a regular expression, and 
> if the test succeeds, I want to use a part of the match.

I'd do it like this:

pat = re.compile(r'...')
for line in mylist:
     if ... :
         ....
     elif ... :
         ....
*** insert all the ifs that don't need the regexp ***
         ....
     else:
         mat = pat.search(line)
         if mat:
              ....do stuff because pattern does match.....
         else:
              ....everything else....


HTH,
Irmen de Jong




From BPettersen at NAREX.com  Fri Jul 25 19:02:44 2003
From: BPettersen at NAREX.com (Bjorn Pettersen)
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 17:02:44 -0600
Subject: Static typing
Message-ID: <60FB8BB7F0EFC7409B75EEEC13E2019202CE473B@admin56.narex.com>

> From: Shane Hathaway [mailto:shane at zope.com] 
> 
> Bjorn Pettersen wrote:
> >>From: Shane Hathaway [mailto:shane at zope.com] 
> >>def foo(bar, baz):
> >>     assert isinstance(bar, int)
> >>     assert isinstance(baz, str)
> > 
> > [...]
> > 
> > ...which means you can't use foo with unicode strings or 
> UserStrings,
> 
> That's right, and that's intentional.  The function is 
> designed to work only with byte arrays.  This invites 
> someone who wants to pass a unicode object to first 
> verify that the function will actually work properly 
> with unicode.
[...]

However, the only way said programmer can do that is by looking at
_your_ code, and then changing _your_ code. Wouldn't:

  def foo(bar, baz):
      """...
         Expects:
            bar: integer in the range (0..65535)
            baz: string (used as binary data)
         ...
      """

be much more useful for said programmer? Afterall, we're all adults
here.

-- bjorn




From reply.in.the.newsgroup at my.address.is.invalid  Wed Jul 23 11:55:38 2003
From: reply.in.the.newsgroup at my.address.is.invalid (Rene Pijlman)
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 17:55:38 +0200
Subject: htaccess & urllib
References: <52yTa.21249$On.2682411@twister.nyc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <tnbthvorrrc59nn3689ue741lvtb0horke@4ax.com>

Max Khesin:
>Is there a way to access an htaccess-protected directory with urllib,
>password being known?

.htaccess is not a protection mechanism, but a configuration
file. If this configuration file specifies HTTP Basic
Authentication you can use:

"class FancyURLopener(...) 
basic HTTP authentication is performed ...
Note: When performing basic authentication, a FancyURLopener
instance calls its prompt_user_passwd() method. The default
implementation asks the users for the required information on
the controlling terminal. A subclass may override this method to
support more appropriate behavior if needed."
http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/module-urllib.html

-- 
Ren? Pijlman



From c-b-o-o-m-e-r at tiscali.co.uk  Tue Jul 29 10:25:12 2003
From: c-b-o-o-m-e-r at tiscali.co.uk (Christopher Boomer (don't dash!))
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 15:25:12 +0100
Subject: DOM as a flat dictionary
References: <3f21335a_2@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com> <bg3gf3$msl$1@nntp0.reith.bbc.co.uk> <23891c90.0307290358.554c7ef8@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3f26c285_2@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com>

Paul, Neil,

> > there is no way that you can tell whether /spam/eggs comes before
> > /spam/bacon in the original XML.
I'm not sure that the order is important in any of the documents I am
dealing with.  They tend to be relational data transmitted as XML, so the
ordering is much less important than the structure.

> You could make things more complicated:
No thanks!  My head is pickling enough at the moment.

> There are plenty of alternatives, so I hope one of them is useful. :-)
I was really hoping that someone would say """Don't be silly, you need to
use my module xsl:auto-map""", but I'm actually just grateful that nobody
said """that's as barmy an idea as there is."""  Perhaps I am on the right
track.  If I get something viable, I'll let you know.

Many thanks,
Christopher.





From ianb at colorstudy.com  Sun Jul  6 15:56:12 2003
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: 06 Jul 2003 14:56:12 -0500
Subject: absolute beginners question about API documentation
In-Reply-To: <be9nn3$2k0j3$1@ID-47851.news.dfncis.de>
References: <be9nn3$2k0j3$1@ID-47851.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <1057521372.517.255.camel@lothlorien>

On Sun, 2003-07-06 at 12:44, Markus Joschko wrote:
> Hi all,
> I' new to python programming but a longtime java programmer. 
> Is there an API documentation like the javadoc API from java?

http://python.org/doc/ , of course.

> I'm want to know all methods I can use on dictionaries. Where can I get an
> overview about these? 

You want to look at the Library Reference, in the built-in type section
(mapping types).  You can also try:

>>> dir({})
['__class__', '__cmp__', '__contains__', '__delattr__', '__delitem__',
'__doc__', '__eq__', '__ge__', '__getattribute__', '__getitem__',
'__gt__', '__hash__', '__init__', '__iter__', '__le__', '__len__',
'__lt__', '__ne__', '__new__', '__reduce__', '__repr__', '__setattr__',
'__setitem__', '__str__', 'clear', 'copy', 'get', 'has_key', 'items',
'iteritems', 'iterkeys', 'itervalues', 'keys', 'popitem', 'setdefault',
'update', 'values']
>>> help({}.update)
Help on built-in function update:

update(...)
    D.update(E) -> None.  Update D from E: for k in E.keys(): D[k] = 
E[k]






From jjl at pobox.com  Wed Jul 30 14:25:25 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 30 Jul 2003 19:25:25 +0100
Subject: reading in lines from a file  -FAST!
References: <pan.2003.07.30.15.02.20.359182.15518@presidency.com>
Message-ID: <87fzknx46i.fsf@pobox.com>

Rajarshi Guha <rajarshi at presidency.com> writes:

>  I have a file containing 168092 lines (each line a single word) and when
> I use
> 
> for line in f:
>   s = s + line
> 
> it takes for ages to read it all in - so long in fact that it makes the

Others have explained better ways to do it, but the *reason* your way
is so slow is that Python strings are immutable.

Say all your lines have length N.  Since strings are immutable, a new
one gets created for each + operation -- ie. for each line.  So, the
number of characters copied for i lines is N + 2N + 3N + 4N + ... +
iN, which (to a first approximation) is proportional to i**2.  That
gets bad quickly as i gets bigger!

Illustrative list comprehensions:

>>> [sum([j*65 for j in range(1, i+1)]) for i in range(1,20)]
[65, 195, 390, 650, 975, 1365, 1820, 2340, 2925, 3575, 4290, 5070, 5915, 6825, 7800, 8840, 9945, 11115, 12350]
>>> [65*i*(i+1)/2 for i in range(1, i+1)]
[65, 195, 390, 650, 975, 1365, 1820, 2340, 2925, 3575, 4290, 5070, 5915, 6825, 7800, 8840, 9945, 11115, 12350]
>>> [(65/2)*(i**2) for i in range(1, i+1)]
[32, 128, 288, 512, 800, 1152, 1568, 2048, 2592, 3200, 3872, 4608, 5408, 6272, 7200, 8192, 9248, 10368, 11552]
>>> [65*i*(i+1)/2 for i in [168092]]
[918290378070L]
>>>

So, don't do that...


John



From cce at clarkevans.com  Thu Jul 17 11:54:03 2003
From: cce at clarkevans.com (Clark C. Evans)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 15:54:03 +0000
Subject: Co-routines
In-Reply-To: <g7xRa.305$fF.9914@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au>
References: <g7xRa.305$fF.9914@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au>
Message-ID: <20030717155403.GA68289@polya.axista.com>

On Thu, Jul 17, 2003 at 11:07:36PM +1000, thewrights at ozemail.com.au wrote:
| I have an application in which I want the users to be able to create python
| functions:
| 
| def f1():
|     print "1-1"
|     print "1-2"
|     print "1-3"
| 
| def f2():
|     print "2-1"
|     print "2-2"
|     print "3-3"
| 
| and when my application runs, I want to execute these functions in
| "lock-step", so that the output looks like:
| 
|     1-1
|     2-2
|     1-2
|     2-2
|     1-3
|     2-3

There is a 'Flow' module in Twisted which uses generators to 
accomplish this sort of thing.   Basically, Twisted has a 
queue of functions that are called, and by yielding "cooperate"
object, you re-schedule the given generator for execution
on this queue (allowing other code blocks to execute).

    from __future__ import generators
    from twisted.flow import flow
    from twisted.internet import reactor
    
    coop = flow.Cooperate()
    def f1():
        print "1-1"
        yield coop
        print "1-2"
        yield coop
        print "1-3"
    
    def f2():
        print "2-1"
        yield coop
        print "2-2"
        yield coop
        print "2-3"
    
    d = flow.Deferred(flow.Merge(f1(),f2()))
    d.addCallback(lambda _: reactor.stop())
    reactor.run()

I'm working on converting many 'data sources' such as PostreSQL
and OpenLDAP so that their async interface works this way.  
See http://www.twistedmatrix.com/documents/howto/flow.html
for more information on the flow module.

Best,

Clark

P.S.  If you wished, you could probably use flow without Twisted.  
You'd have to do three things:  (a) create an event queue object, such
as twisted.internet.reactor, (b) provide a notification when something
scheduled is done, aka twisted.internet.defer, and (c) provide some
way to handle exceptions in an async manner, aka twisted.python.fail.
Although, once you have all of these things in place... why not just
use the rest of Twisted... *grin*    In other words, it is easy in 
theory to implement this correctly, but not that easy if you want
to have it work with sockets and properly handle exceptions...
So, by the time you do all of this, you will have re-invented the
core of Twisted...  and then you won't have a built-in http server
nor a community to support you.




From theller at python.net  Tue Jul 22 13:16:42 2003
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 19:16:42 +0200
Subject: How do I get info on an exception ?
References: <fc07672ed11f5dcad539bcf9bf0d051f@news.1usenet.com> <U2NRa.7475$7O.275@nwrdny01.gnilink.net>
 <vhh3kss6ailjf9@corp.supernews.com>
 <qbySa.19290$7O.15283@nwrdny01.gnilink.net>
 <vhqqekoa2osu77@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <y8yqo51h.fsf@python.net>

>>> >The list of possible socket exceptions is in the docs for sockets.
>>> >It also describes the (errno, string) return tuple value of inst.args.
>>> .
>>> True.
>>>
>>> But unsatisfying--at least to me.
>>
>>Submit a patch.
> 			.
> 			.
> I deserved that.
>
> There was more to my post, of course.  Part of what I was trying to
> express is that exception interfaces are almost always relegated to
> a footnote, with only a generalized description, even in the frequent
> case that a method's exceptions are more complicated than its invoca-
> tions.
>
> Rather than tilt at the collection of all such windmills, I want to
> first understand better why this is, and what response is appropriate.
> To summarize:  I don't know what patch is the right one.  I also
> thought it only fair to warn Mr. July that things are indeed more dif-
> ficult than we were explaining, even though I didn't feel up to 
> detailing the difficulties.
>
> So, Raymond, do you have general guidelines for how you think excep-
> tions should be documented?

I don't know what Raymond will suggest, but for myself I always (well,
nearly always) when I find the docs insufficient, I'll submit a patch
which contains what I would like to read there.
Works pretty well so far...

Thomas



From mpnugent at ra.rockwell.com  Fri Jul 25 05:10:26 2003
From: mpnugent at ra.rockwell.com (Michael P. Nugent)
Date: 25 Jul 2003 02:10:26 -0700
Subject: Getting sub-objects from ADSI
References: <d89570b3.0307231025.69b573e5@posting.google.com> <3c91a864.0307231744.44a0adbb@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <d89570b3.0307241049.47fab4ff@posting.google.com>

logistix at cathoderaymission.net (logistix at cathoderaymission.net) wrote in message news:<3c91a864.0307231744.44a0adbb at posting.google.com>...
> mpnugent at ra.rockwell.com (Michael P. Nugent) wrote in message news:<d89570b3.0307231025.69b573e5 at posting.google.com>...
> > How do I get the underlying values from Win::OLE=Hash(0x...) type
> > objects? I can do it in Perl, but not in Python.
> > 
> > For instance, I get
> > 
> > CN=Fred
> > <COMObject <unknown>>
> > <COMObject <unknown>>
> > 
> > when running
> > 
> > #! python
> > 
> > import pythoncom
> > from win32com.client import GetObject
> > 
> > UserPath = "LDAP://CN=Fred,OU=Two,OU=One,DC=nw,DC=home,DC=here,DC=com"
> > 
> > ldap = GetObject(Userpath)
> > 
> > print ldap.Name
> > print ldap.Groups()
> > print ldap.LastLogoff
> > 
> > I know that Groups is of the type <bound method CDispatch.Groups of
> > <COMObject ...>>, but that knowledge does not help me much.  I have
> > fiddled a bit with GetInfo and Dispatch, but it doesn't change the
> > results.
> 
> Try:
> 
> for group in ldap.Groups():
>     print group.Name #or whatever you really want to do


Thank you for that. I had tried that, but must have mistyped
something. However, that is only part of the answer I need: what about
LastLogoff? I don't know even what type of OLE/COM object it is
supposed to be, so I don't know how to intuitively access it.

For instance, given:

      print ldap.LastLogin
      print ldap.LastLogoff

I get:

<PyTime:7/22/2003 3:37:46 PM>
<COMObject <unknown>>

Thomas Eck in ADSI Scripting Appendix B says that that these should be
the same types, so maybe the Python libs are hosed.

P.S. I don't like the naming inconsistancy-- logon <=> logoff, login
<=> logout-- either.



From irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl  Fri Jul 25 12:33:52 2003
From: irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 18:33:52 +0200
Subject: CGI "download" prompt?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1059144400.10484.python-list@python.org>
References: <77dd287a.0307240632.40c6c309@posting.google.com>	<3f205f06$0$49115$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>	<77dd287a.0307250619.7c2ec441@posting.google.com> <mailman.1059144400.10484.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3f215bef$0$49107$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

Gerhard H?ring wrote:
> Erhm. Let's suppose you want to send an RTF file and have the browser 
> pop up a save dialog with a certain filename preconfigured:
> 
> Then send these headers:
> 
> Content-Type: application/rtf
> Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=mydocument.rtf

I didn't know about Content-Disposition! If this works,
that's very nice-- especially if the filename part of that
header is actually used by the web browser.

--Irmen




From roo at dark-try-removing-this-boong.demon.co.uk  Fri Jul 11 08:20:47 2003
From: roo at dark-try-removing-this-boong.demon.co.uk (Rupert Pigott)
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 13:20:47 +0100
Subject: Collective memory
References: <mailman.1057083728.8224.python-list@python.org> <vg88va53uha8e@corp.supernews.com> <3F09F136.6060000@srv.net> <3F0B2857.6EE3A30F@ev1.net> <1fxw51u.2b4m6zc39wulN%proto@panix.com> <slrnbgt6ls.ab5.abigail@alexandra.abigail.nl>
Message-ID: <1057926047.339659@saucer.planet.gong>

"Abigail" <abigail at abigail.nl> wrote in message
news:slrnbgt6ls.ab5.abigail at alexandra.abigail.nl...
> Walter Bushell (proto at panix.com) wrote on MMMDC September MCMXCIII in
> <URL:news:1fxw51u.2b4m6zc39wulN%proto at panix.com>:
> ++  Charles Richmond <richmond at ev1.net> wrote:
> ++ <Snip>
> ++ > int  *p, x, y;
> ++ >
> ++ > then:
> ++ >
> ++ >     y = x/*p;
> ++ >
> ++ > is quite different from:
> ++ >
> ++ >     y = x / *p;
> ++ >
> ++ > The first way, "/*" will begin a comment...the second way,
> ++ > you get the integer "x" divided by the integer pointed to by "p".
> ++
> ++  Ouch!! That is one reason code coloring is *important*.
>
> Nope. That's a reason why code colouring is evil. If you write code,
> and it isn't clear what you mean without the use of code colouring,
> you did something wrong. Your code shouldn't rely on a specific code
> colouring scheme to be understandable.
>
> All in my opinion of course.

My preference has been to make heavy use of ()'s to
make the meaning of expressions clear. Also I have
seen people cut & paste expressions from one language
to another without checking the precedence rules. You
know what happened next ! :)

Cheers,
Rupert





From paul at boddie.net  Thu Jul 10 10:22:44 2003
From: paul at boddie.net (Paul Boddie)
Date: 10 Jul 2003 07:22:44 -0700
Subject: mx odbc
References: <3f0accb5$0$13191$edfadb0f@dread15.news.tele.dk> <mailman.1057680332.32247.python-list@python.org> <3f0bce6d$0$13245$edfadb0f@dread15.news.tele.dk> <un0fnz7fu.fsf@fitlinxx.com> <3f0d32e5$0$13253$edfadb0f@dread15.news.tele.dk> <3F0D4728.45284530@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <23891c90.0307100622.8db9814@posting.google.com>

Alan Kennedy <alanmk at hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<3F0D4728.45284530 at hotmail.com>...
> 
> To those who continue to complain about having to pay for software,
> I say: If you don't like paying, fork the software, maintain your
> own product and let it be free (both in the free-speech and the
> free-beer senses): see how you long *you* last.

Or in this case, don't fork the product because the licence won't
permit it. Instead, write your own ODBC driver manager package.

I've stated before that vocal critics of mxODBC's licensing could
relatively easily wrap something like iODBC and release the results
under an open source licence, but the fact that it hasn't been done
really says a lot about how much the mxODBC licensing is a "problem"
for those people.

Paul



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Thu Jul 24 16:30:00 2003
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 16:30:00 -0400
Subject: Associating file types to my Python program
References: <Xns93C2BBA60F6BEt45fs6vve@130.133.1.4> <vi0dsmks541d25@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <zfmdndoXVIpU3L2iXTWJjA@comcast.com>

"John Roth" <newsgroups at jhrothjr.com> wrote in message
news:vi0dsmks541d25 at news.supernews.com...
> Do  you really want to do that? I'd advise going a bit
> slow, and just get an item on the context menu for
> starters. Look at HKCR\SystemFileAssociations\Image\Shell
> and put your command in there. It will pop up on
> the context menu for all file extensions that have
> a "PercievedType" of "Image", at least under Windows XP.

As a user, I second this.  Too many apps want to be the default
'open'er and too few do the nice thing and *optionaly* add themself as
an right-click context menu selection.

TJR





From somebody at nowhere.com  Tue Jul 22 20:04:56 2003
From: somebody at nowhere.com (Sean Richards)
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 00:04:56 GMT
Subject: How to save web pages for offline reading?
References: <cb035744.0307210131.5cfbc890@posting.google.com> <bfge1v$e6v86$1@ID-63505.news.uni-berlin.de> <cb035744.0307210848.6b1328d1@posting.google.com> <slrnbho797.u9.sybrenUSE@sybren.thirdtower.com> <cb035744.0307212238.2ea9c46@posting.google.com> <ubrvmshi8.fsf@scientia.com>
Message-ID: <slrnbhrkb0.co.somebody@MB5107.lincoln.ac.nz>

In article <ubrvmshi8.fsf at scientia.com>, Paul Rudin wrote:
>>>>>> "Will" == Will Stuyvesant <hwlgw at hotmail.com> writes:
>
>     > There is no "man wget" on Windows :-) And unfortunately the GNU
>     > Windows port of wget I have (version 1-5-3-1) does not have that
>     > --page-requisites parameter.
>
> You need cygwin <http://www.cygwin.com>. That way you get "man wget"
> and a wget that has a --page-requisites option on your windows box.

There is a windows port of GNU wget 1.8.1 available. You don't need
cygwin just to get a decent/recent version of wget. You can get one
here..

http://www.weihenstephan.de/~syring/win32/UnxUtils.html

Sean




From simon at rendermania.com  Mon Jul  7 15:21:19 2003
From: simon at rendermania.com (Simon Bunker)
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 20:21:19 +0100
Subject: single/double quote escape interpolation
Message-ID: <bech6q$h5i$1@news7.svr.pol.co.uk>

I was just wondering why python doesn't make a distinction between single
and double
quotes - a bit like Perl does.

Obviously I realise there are no dollar signs so you can't intrpolate a
varaible in a string.
This is fine, but having to remember to put an r in front of regex's is
really annoying and it would
be great if you could jsut use single quotes instead to interpolate slashes
properly etc. (ie only escape them once).

I could not find this on google, but I guess it has been discussed before.
Is there a good reason?

thanks

Simon
-- 
http://www.rendermania.com/





From max at alcyone.com  Tue Jul  1 21:41:26 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 18:41:26 -0700
Subject: (Numeric) should -7 % 5 = -2 ?
References: <87k7b6cf3d.fsf_-_@schedar.com> <mailman.1056836805.17229.python-list@python.org> <290620030817191641%pecora@anvil.nrl.navy.mil> <3g32gvcolis4485956egtc35akm6lh3uq5@4ax.com> <010720031119590501%pecora@anvil.nrl.navy.mil>
Message-ID: <3F023846.68E3F770@alcyone.com>

"Louis M. Pecora" wrote:

> We write  a=b mod m if m divides (a-b) (i.e. no remeinder).
> 
> The defintion does not say how to compute the mod, rather it is an
> expression of a relationship between a and b.  Hence, writing -2=-7
> mod
> 5 appears to be OK.

Right.  Equivalences modulo m are really alternate numerical spaces in
which arithmetic is done; in mathematics, the modulo is not strictly an
operator.  In those cases, you don't really have to pick a unique
residue when doing arithmetic (mod m), since it's all equivalence
relation anyway.

In computer science, where modulo is an operator that must return a
unique value, it's not really specified whether (-n % m) (m, n positive)
should be negative or not.  Some languages/systems chose negative, some
don't.  The choice is never "wrong" unless it's done inconsistently
within a particular language/system.

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ People are taught to be racists.
\__/  Jose Abad



From gh at ghaering.de  Sun Jul 20 09:09:02 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 15:09:02 +0200
Subject: "Pure Python" MySQL module like Net::MySQL
In-Reply-To: <bfddmi$7nk$1@eeyore.INS.cwru.edu>
References: <bfddmi$7nk$1@eeyore.INS.cwru.edu>
Message-ID: <3F1A946E.7050907@ghaering.de>

Ravi wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I did some googling, and found that there doesn't seem to be a pure 
> python MySQL communication module. There is one for perl however, 
> Net::MySQL. 

Does it implement the MySQL wire protocol in pure Perl, without linking 
to libmysql? Sure that's possible in Python.

> I was wondering if there was a specific reason why something 
> similar hasn't been implemented in Python, 

Nobody needed it badly enough.

> a limitation of the language or libraries perhaps?

No.

> I briefly scanned through the perl source for 
> Net::MySQL, and there doesn't seem to be anything that couldn't be done 
> in Python, but I'm a fresh convert from perl land and I don't much 
> beyond the basics of Python yet.

Is there any particular reason why you'd need such a beast instead of 
just using MySQLdb?

-- Gerhard




From ajr at dynacap.com  Thu Jul 31 21:13:36 2003
From: ajr at dynacap.com (Arnaldo Riquelme)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 17:13:36 -0800
Subject: A very simple question
Message-ID: <vijfpqokte2s60@corp.supernews.com>

I'm getting familiar with Python and I have a simple question:

class abc:
    x = 100
    y = 200
    z = 300


ac = abc()

Shouldn't I have a attribute named __dict__ for ac that contains a
dictionary of all the variables?

Instead when I do:
print ac__dict__

I get an empty dictionary {}

However:

print abc.__dict__    works.

I'm missing something somewhere, can anyone please enlight me on this
matter.


Thanks


Arnaldo










From bokr at oz.net  Fri Jul 18 00:08:32 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 18 Jul 2003 04:08:32 GMT
Subject: using functions and file renaming problem
References: <3F174E76.4000302@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <bf7rs0$rtc$0@216.39.172.122>

On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 21:33:42 -0400, hokiegal99 <hokiegal99 at hotmail.com> wrote:

>A few questions about the following code. How would I "wrap" this in a 
>function, and do I need to?
>
>Also, how can I make the code smart enough to realize that when a file 
>has 2 or more bad charcters in it, that the code needs to run until all 
>bad characters are gone? For example, if a file has the name 
>"<bad*mac\file" the program has to run 3 times to get all three bad 
>chars out of the file name.
>
>The passes look like this:
>
>1. <bad*mac\file becomes -bad*mac\file
>2. -bad*mac\file becomes -bad-mac\file
>3. -bad-mac\file becomes -bad-mac-file
>
>I think the problem is that once the program finds a bad char in a 
>filename it replaces it with a dash, which creates a new filename that 
>wasn't present when the program first ran, thus it has to run again to 
>see the new filename.
Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but in a previous post I suggested combining the
name transformations before even going to the file system for renaming. E.g,
if you have
    lessbadfilename = fixup1(badfilename); rename(badfilename,lessbadfilename)
    evenlessbadfilename = fixup2(lessbadfilename); rename(lessbadfilename,evenlessbadfilename)
    okfilename = fixup3(evenlessbadfilename); rename(evenlessbadfilename,okfilename)
why bother with all the renames, when you could do a single one at the end, i.e.,
    rename(badfilename, okfilename)
i.e., why record the intermediate names in the file system, only to change them?

>
>import os, re, string
>bad = re.compile(r'%2f|%25|[*?<>/\|\\]') #search for these.
>print " "
>setpath = raw_input("Path to the dir that you would like to clean: ")
>print " "
>print "--- Remove Bad Charaters From Filenames ---"
>print " "
>for root, dirs, files in os.walk(setpath):
>     for file in files:
>         badchars = bad.findall(file)
>         newfile = ''
>         for badchar in badchars:
>             newfile = file.replace(badchar,'-') #replace bad chars.
>         if newfile:
>             newpath = os.path.join(root,newfile)
>             oldpath = os.path.join(root,file)
>             os.rename(oldpath,newpath)
>	    print oldpath
>	    print newpath
>print " "
>print "--- Done ---"
>print " "
>
This looks like an old post that ignores some responses you got to your original post like this.
Did some mail get lost? Or was this an accidental repost of something old? I still see
indentation misalignments, probably due to mixing tabs and spaces (bad news in python ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From mis6 at pitt.edu  Mon Jul  7 18:35:18 2003
From: mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato)
Date: 7 Jul 2003 15:35:18 -0700
Subject: Newbie Question: Abstract Class in Python
References: <5U2Oa.239646$jp.6482027@twister.southeast.rr.com> <beaed6$e71$1@panix2.panix.com> <Tl3Oa.239706$jp.6488300@twister.southeast.rr.com>
Message-ID: <2259b0e2.0307071435.2c2a3bb4@posting.google.com>

"Kevin Bass" <kbass1 at nc.rr.com> wrote in message news:<Tl3Oa.239706$jp.6488300 at twister.southeast.rr.com>...
> I am only looking for an answer about creating an abstract class in Python
> and
> not a solution to a problem.   I am looking for a way to stop class
> instantiation
> of a class. This should be a generic approach.
> 
> Kevin

I may stop instantiation by inheriting from

>>> class NonInstantiable(object):
	def __new__(cls,*args,**kw):
		raise TypeError("Non-instantiable class")

Here is how it works:
	
>>> class C(NonInstantiable):pass

>>> c=C()

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<pyshell#8>", line 1, in -toplevel-
    c=C()
  File "<pyshell#5>", line 3, in __new__
    raise TypeError("Non-instantiable class")
TypeError: Non-instantiable class

HTH,

          Michele



From s.nufer at free.fr  Wed Jul 30 18:02:26 2003
From: s.nufer at free.fr (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?St=E9phane?= Nufer)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 00:02:26 +0200
Subject: serial, parallel and USB port
Message-ID: <3f284386$0$1922$626a54ce@news.free.fr>

Hello,

Why are there no module to access serial, parallel or USB port in python.
This could be great to build front end software to control electronic
device or even automaton in industrial process ( or maybe I should ask why
the existing third party modules such as pyserial have not been integrated
in the official release)

Regards,



From alanmk at hotmail.com  Sun Jul  6 17:32:34 2003
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Sun, 06 Jul 2003 22:32:34 +0100
Subject: Search for mapping solution
References: <be9t66$2otne$1@ID-47851.news.dfncis.de> <3F087E85.9D8018E9@hotmail.com> <aw%Na.5962$Tx.86640@news20.bellglobal.com>
Message-ID: <3F089572.C5153FC@hotmail.com>

Sean Ross wrote:

> Hi.  You've left out the accumulating part of the OP's requirements:

I know :-(

The real temptation I have to resist is deciding to answer someone
question without reading the whole question properly.

I tried to cancel the post as soon as I realised, but it was obviously
too late.

No more posting for me for a while. 

-- 
alan kennedy
-----------------------------------------------------
check http headers here: http://xhaus.com/headers
email alan:              http://xhaus.com/mailto/alan



From irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl  Tue Jul 29 18:57:19 2003
From: irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 00:57:19 +0200
Subject: urlretrieve a file whose name has spaces in it
In-Reply-To: <10caf2e2.0307291439.33d9fcc3@posting.google.com>
References: <10caf2e2.0307291439.33d9fcc3@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3f26fbce$1$49099$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

HP wrote:
> urllib.urlretrieve("http://website.com/path/string string1 foo.doc",
> "local_file");
> 

Try

urllib.urlretrieve(urllib.quote("http://website.com/path/string string1 foo.doc"), "local_file")

instead.

And what is the semicolon doing there? ;-)

--Irmen




From danb_83 at yahoo.com  Fri Jul 25 21:02:40 2003
From: danb_83 at yahoo.com (Dan Bishop)
Date: 25 Jul 2003 18:02:40 -0700
Subject: The case of the missing modules
Message-ID: <ad052e5c.0307251702.578ea2ae@posting.google.com>

I installed Python on the HP 3000 at work today.

The interpreter itself appears to be working fine, but "import math",
"import datetime", etc. fail with "ImportError: No module named
[name]".  (However, os and system can be imported successfully.)

I used help('modules') to print a list of available modules and there
were only 14 (__builtin__, _codecs, _sre, _symtable, errno,
exceptions, gc, imp, marshal,
posix, signal, sys, xxsubtype, zipimport).

Any ideas as to why Python can't find most of its modules?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

$ ./python -v
# installing zipimport hook
import zipimport # builtin
# installed zipimport hook
# /tmp/python/Lib/site.pyc matches /tmp/python/Lib/site.py
import site # precompiled from /tmp/python/Lib/site.pyc
# /tmp/python/Lib/os.pyc matches /tmp/python/Lib/os.py
import os # precompiled from /tmp/python/Lib/os.pyc
import posix # builtin
# /tmp/python/Lib/posixpath.pyc matches /tmp/python/Lib/posixpath.py
import posixpath # precompiled from /tmp/python/Lib/posixpath.pyc
# /tmp/python/Lib/stat.pyc matches /tmp/python/Lib/stat.py
import stat # precompiled from /tmp/python/Lib/stat.pyc
# /tmp/python/Lib/copy_reg.pyc matches /tmp/python/Lib/copy_reg.py
import copy_reg # precompiled from /tmp/python/Lib/copy_reg.pyc
# /tmp/python/Lib/types.pyc matches /tmp/python/Lib/types.py
import types # precompiled from /tmp/python/Lib/types.pyc
# /tmp/python/Lib/warnings.pyc matches /tmp/python/Lib/warnings.py
import warnings # precompiled from /tmp/python/Lib/warnings.pyc
# /tmp/python/Lib/linecache.pyc matches /tmp/python/Lib/linecache.py
import linecache # precompiled from /tmp/python/Lib/linecache.pyc
Python 2.3c1 (#9, Aug 13 1970, 13:25:05) 
[GCC 3.2.2] on mpeix70
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> raise SystemExit
# clear __builtin__._
# clear sys.path
# clear sys.argv
# clear sys.ps1
# clear sys.ps2
# clear sys.exitfunc
# clear sys.exc_type
# clear sys.exc_value
# clear sys.exc_traceback
# clear sys.last_type
# clear sys.last_value
# clear sys.last_traceback
# clear sys.path_hooks
# clear sys.path_importer_cache
# clear sys.meta_path
# restore sys.stdin
# restore sys.stdout
# restore sys.stderr
# cleanup __main__
# cleanup[1] zipimport
# cleanup[1] warnings
# cleanup[1] signal
# cleanup[1] site
# cleanup[1] linecache
# cleanup[1] posix
# cleanup[1] types
# cleanup[1] exceptions
# cleanup[2] stat
# cleanup[2] copy_reg
# cleanup[2] posixpath
# cleanup[2] os
# cleanup[2] os.path
# cleanup sys
# cleanup __builtin__
# cleanup ints: 4 unfreed ints in 4 out of 105 blocks
# cleanup floats
$ set | grep "PYTHON"
PYTHONHOME="/tmp/python"
PYTHONPATH="/tmp/python/Lib"



From bokr at oz.net  Mon Jul 21 19:22:46 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 21 Jul 2003 23:22:46 GMT
Subject: pythonic malloc
References: <OaOSa.6965$OM3.854@news-server.bigpond.net.au> <bfgbq2$eio91$1@ID-141451.news.uni-berlin.de> <IiPSa.7059$OM3.3966@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
Message-ID: <bfhsk6$aoa$0@216.39.172.122>

On Mon, 21 Jul 2003 10:32:08 GMT, Brad Hards <bhards at bigpond.net.au> wrote:

>Karl Scalet wrote:
>
>> kjockey schrieb:
>>> I have some simple UDP code that does:
>>>
>s.sendto("\xf0\x00\x02\x00rachel\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00",addr)
>>> 
>>> This is OK, except that I'd like to change the text in the middle
>>> ("rachel", which is the hostname FWIW), and the NUL padding needs to go
>>> out to make the length 25 bytes (so the padding depends on the length of
>>> the name).
>>> 
>>> So I could do something like:
>>> retpacket = "\xf0\x00\x02\x00"+socket.gethostname()
>>> while len(retpacket) < 26:
>> 
>> shouldn't that be 25?
>Yes.
>
>>>      retpacket += "\x00"
>>> s.sendto(retpacket, addr)
>>> 
>>> But that feels "wrong". And Python in a Nutshell says its a bad idea  -
>>> "anti-idiom".
Well, adding the same character one by one is about as ugly as
    sum = 14
    while sum <25:
        sum += 1
(Of course, if the original 14 units are also the same, as in integers,
    sum += 25-sum
is not much better ;-)

But for small strings, I don't think it should be a big deal to do something like

    retpacket = "\xf0\x00\x02\x00"+socket.gethostname()
    retpacket += '\x00'*(25-len(retpacket))


>>> 
>>> Can anyone show me the true path?
>> 
>> No idea, if it's the true path:
>> 
>> hn = socket.gethostname()
>> retpacket = '\xf0\x00\x02\x00%s%s' % (hn, (25-4-len(hn))*chr(0))
>> s.sendto(retpacket, addr)
>Probably better for efficiency, but not much for readability....
>
>Anyone else?

another alternative (untested!):

    fmt = '\xf0\x00\x02\x00%s'+21*'\x00' # or write it out ;-)
    ...
    retpacket = (fmt%socket.gethostname())[:25]
    s.sendto(retpacket, addr)

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From stuart at bmsi.com  Tue Jul 15 13:07:14 2003
From: stuart at bmsi.com (Stuart D. Gathman)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 13:07:14 -0400
Subject: LyX for Python Documentation
Message-ID: <pan.2003.07.15.17.07.13.936597.12946@bmsi.com>

Is there a LyX style sheet to help me write simple Python documentation
in the standard format without learning to write raw LaTeX?



From skip at pobox.com  Fri Jul 11 08:18:21 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 07:18:21 -0500
Subject: Is re module thread-safe?
In-Reply-To: <ba1e306f.0307110230.5e2e7ce8@posting.google.com>
References: <ba1e306f.0307110230.5e2e7ce8@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <16142.43789.474127.166801@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    Jane> As the subject says, is re module thread-safe?

Yes.

Skip




From upandrunning247 at hotmail.com  Sat Jul 19 18:13:26 2003
From: upandrunning247 at hotmail.com (George Henry)
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 15:13:26 -0700
Subject: Strange(?) list comprehension behavior
Message-ID: <BAY1-F17K7sShkj0jYZ0001b142@hotmail.com>

Never mind, my result was due to a typo. Have you ever typed "<" rather than 
"," ... and structured your code in such a way that the error escpaed your 
notice on casual perusal? So ... [ "s1", ... "sj"< "sk", ... "sn"] does 
indeed produce an int.

Debugging python is rather different from debugging languages like C, C++, 
Java, C# - to say the least.

I should have listened to my instincts and done more investigating before 
troubling the list (y'all) with my stoopid error. Doh!

Regards,
George

_________________________________________________________________
STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE*  
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail





From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Wed Jul 16 14:22:46 2003
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 16 Jul 2003 14:22:46 -0400
Subject: Replacing rexec
References: <mailman.1058378245.3305.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bf455m$1sr$1@panix3.panix.com>

In article <mailman.1058378245.3305.python-list at python.org>,
Tim Gerla  <tgerla at outsourcefinancial.com> wrote:
>
>We are looking to use plpython in PostgreSQL, but it's being downgraded
>to "untrusted" and/or being completely removed because Python's rexec
>went away. Why did rexec go away, specifically? I know it had security
>issues, but couldn't these have been fixed? Did the module just have too
>many integral flaws in the design to be worth saving?

There are two separate issues:

* rexec implementation -- it never had a true security audit, and there
have never been resources to do it.

* rexec vs new-style classes -- the basic mechanism used in rexec fails
in the fact of new-style classes, which would require a complete rewrite
of rexec.

>Is anyone working on a replacement? If not, why not? Even if plpython
>isn't very widely used, I think it's still important for advocacy. I'd
>much rather write Python than PL.

There's been some talk, but it's likely that a secure Python will
require forking the code.  Note that it's already too easy to write a
DoS attack against Python: 100L**100**100 will do it.  Conversely, if
only trusted code is going into the server, there's no need for rexec.

>Anyway, I'm looking for a summary of specific reasons why rexec went
>away without a replacement. I understand completely that it had flaws
>and was insecure; I'm only confused as to why these flaws were
>insurmountable.

Take a look at http://www.amk.ca/python/howto/rexec/
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

A: No.
Q: Is top-posting okay?



From just at xs4all.nl  Tue Jul  8 10:16:11 2003
From: just at xs4all.nl (Just van Rossum)
Date: Tue,  8 Jul 2003 16:16:11 +0200
Subject: path module
In-Reply-To: <16138.53027.356511.290162@montanaro.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <r01050400-1026-C21D1790B14E11D7A953003065D5E7E4@[10.0.0.23]>

Skip Montanaro wrote:

> Just> But when the items are variables, what you read is not what you
> Just> get.  Often you'll want (some) literals, and then you get
> 
> Just>     path = basePath/"a"/"b"/"c"
> 
> Just> ...and _that_ I find quite horrible...
> 
> I don't know for sure, but I suspect the above could also be
> 
>   path = basePath/"a/b/c"

Ooh, it _can_ get worse ;-/

Also: this would not be portable on platforms not using / as os.sep, so
is almost equivalent to not using os.path at all and doing

    path = basePath + "/a/b/c"

> Still not perfect, but in any case, the '/' is meant to be
> suggestive, not literal.  Perhaps you would have preferred he use
> ':'? ;-)

Heh...

> Just> (Did I mention that / usually means divide in Python? ;-)
> 
> Sure, just like '%' means modulo in Python, but it seems to have
> found a home in printf-style string expansion.

True, but string expansion is quite old (possibly even Python 0.9 or
1.0?), so most people are used to it. (Although, newbies without a C
background are usually baffled by it. I know I was, back then...).

Just




From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Wed Jul  2 10:24:25 2003
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 09:24:25 -0500
Subject: splitting a string into 2 new strings
In-Reply-To: <bdue2n$m07$1@aspen.sucs.soton.ac.uk> ("Mark Light"'s message
 of "Wed, 2 Jul 2003 12:02:36 +0100")
References: <bdue2n$m07$1@aspen.sucs.soton.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <m21xx9j9ba.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

>>>>> "Mark" == Mark Light <light at soton.ac.uk> writes:

    Mark> Hi, I have a string e.g. 'C6 H12 O6' that I wish to split up
    Mark> to give 2 strings 'C H O' and '6 12 6'.  I have played with
    Mark> string.split() and the re module - but can't quite get
    Mark> there.

    Mark> Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Here's an example using re:

  import re

  def pairs(l):
      return [[l[i], l[i+1]] for i in range(0, len(l), 2)]

  splits = [ t for t in re.split('([A-Z])(\d+) *', 'C6 H12 O6') if len(t)>0]

  for letter, number in pairs(splits):
      print letter, number


pairs is a function to loop over a list in pairs.

John Hunter




From martin at v.loewis.de  Sun Jul 27 17:36:43 2003
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-15?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 27 Jul 2003 23:36:43 +0200
Subject: Checking whether bool is a type
References: <3F2442B2.E660E97@jandecaluwe.com>
Message-ID: <m3ispnirdg.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Jan Decaluwe <jan at jandecaluwe.com> writes:

> jand> python2.2
> Python 2.2.2 (#1, Oct 16 2002, 19:59:11) 
> [GCC 2.96 20000731 (Red Hat Linux 7.1 2.96-98)] on linux2
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> >>> type(bool) is type
> 0
> 
> Great isn't it ?! Not sure whether I should consider
> this to be completely obvious or very deep ...

Very obvious.

Python 2.2.1 (#1, Sep 10 2002, 17:49:17)
[GCC 3.2] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> bool
<built-in function bool>

bool is a function in Python 2.2.1+, not a type. It became a type only
in Python 2.3, see PEP 285.

Regards,
Martin



From adechert at earthlink.net  Mon Jul 21 12:54:52 2003
From: adechert at earthlink.net (Alan Dechert)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 16:54:52 GMT
Subject: Python voting demo discussion
References: <KRMSa.112426$Io.9623657@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <3F1BA496.6080305@embeddedsystems.nl>
Message-ID: <wVUSa.14907$Mc.1121405@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>

"Gerrit Muller" <gerrit.muller at embeddedsystems.nl> wrote in message
news:3F1BA496.6080305 at embeddedsystems.nl...

> In fact the main recommendation is: simply start in Python. ....
>
I think that's what we'll do.  Thank you very much for your input.

It will be on sourceforge.net very soon (today).

Alan Dechert





From abelikov72 at hotmail.com  Mon Jul  7 16:39:54 2003
From: abelikov72 at hotmail.com (Afanasiy)
Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 20:39:54 GMT
Subject: Python in Excel
References: <mailman.1057271286.23358.python-list@python.org> <1u3Na.12730$U23.8210@nwrdny01.gnilink.net> <873chm9w7o.fsf@pobox.com> <be5amo$2phm$1@adenine.netfront.net>
Message-ID: <ihmjgvc9opakq73mun0imvrr24hfq58bi4@4ax.com>

On Sat, 05 Jul 2003 02:48:15 +0100, hannibal <hannibal1812 at canada.com>
wrote:

>You can use Microsoft Script Control. If you have the win32 extensions 
>of python, you can use python in place of vb in this control
>
>-open the VBA script editor - In menus/Tools/References add Microsoft 
>Script Control
>-Make a new module and declare a new MsScriptControl.ScriptControl
>	Global sc as new MsScriptControl.ScriptControl
>-Initialize the language attibute with python - Note that you and users 
>of your document must have python and its win32 extensions installed. 
>Activestate python distribustion include it.
>You can put
>	sc.language="python"
>in the routine Workbook_Open()
>
>Now you can import python modules using ExecuteStatement method of the 
>control in vba and have results from python functions with eval method. 
>One interesting thing is that you can pass an object to the control with 
>AddObject method and have python manipulate it. And so on..

Thanks this is almost what I am looking for, very cool.
It would be nice not to have to do so much VB with it.

Is there any way around that? From my perspective, every Python function
used will be wrapped in a VB function which calls the Python function.

-AB



From mis6 at pitt.edu  Thu Jul  3 11:32:28 2003
From: mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato)
Date: 3 Jul 2003 08:32:28 -0700
Subject: Suggesting for overloading the assign operator
References: <6f03c4a5.0306301931.3f15fbb7@posting.google.com> <6f03c4a5.0307022119.2b0a4bc1@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <2259b0e2.0307030732.3ec88c84@posting.google.com>

rimbalaya at yahoo.com (Rim) wrote in message news:<6f03c4a5.0307022119.2b0a4bc1 at posting.google.com>...
> Everyone! Thanks a lot for the insightful and enlightening discussion.
> 
> I think the suggestion to solve the problem by using the __setattr__
> special method will not work because it intercepts attribute
> assignment of the form "self.attr = somthing", and not what I want,
> which is "name = something".
> 
> John suggested to look at properties, this is the closest I can get to
> the
> behavior I am looking for, but from my understanding, that will let me
> intercept "name.value = something" instead of intercepting "name =
> something".
> 
> Thank you very much everyone.
> - Rim

Okay, you asked for it ;)

class MetaTrick(type):
    def __init__(cls,name,bases,dic):
        super(MetaTrick,cls).__init__(name,bases,dic)
        for (k,v) in dic.iteritems():
            if not k.endswith("__"): setattr(cls,k,v)
    def __setattr__(cls,k,v):
        print "Intercepting %s = %s" % (k,v)
        super(MetaTrick,cls).__setattr__(k,v)

class C:
    __metaclass__=MetaTrick
    name='something'

This gives the output "Intercepting name = something".

I show you this snippet hoping you will not use it! 

nothing-is-impossible-with-metaclasses-ly,

                                 Michele



From theincredibleulk at hotmail.com  Wed Jul  2 07:41:11 2003
From: theincredibleulk at hotmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=DAlfur_Kristj=E1nsson?=)
Date: 2 Jul 2003 04:41:11 -0700
Subject: Embedding
Message-ID: <df361dd5.0307020341.24a1e39b@posting.google.com>

Hi, I'm having a bit of trouble trying to script my application using
Python.
I have created classes that I can use in C++ and I have created Python
objects from those classes using SWIG and they're working just
perfectly. However, I have no idea on how I can actually pass these
back and forth when I call my scripts from C++. Ideas anybody?
Please...



From ianb at colorstudy.com  Thu Jul 24 00:29:28 2003
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: 23 Jul 2003 23:29:28 -0500
Subject: Cookbook idea - single-shot __init__
In-Reply-To: <slrnbhuhjj.tuj.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>
References: <764b8294.0307221520.18017b09@posting.google.com>
	 <mailman.1058930376.7219.python-list@python.org>
	 <mXdYCLAc0jH$EwJR@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
	 <mailman.1059009457.3385.python-list@python.org>
	 <slrnbhuhjj.tuj.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>
Message-ID: <1059020967.28066.8311.camel@lothlorien>

On Wed, 2003-07-23 at 21:17, Ben Finney wrote:
> On Wed, 23 Jul 2003 19:15:23 -0600, Bob Gailer wrote:
> > I have at times had the need to initialize some things once at the
> > class level
> 
> In Python 2.2 (earlier?) you can define any attribute at the class
> level, and it will be shared by all instances:

This is true in all versions of Python.  However, there are some
instances where you can't initialize the attributes at class creation
time, and you want to delay initializing those variables until some
later time.  This usually is a problem of circular dependencies, or
where initialization somehow depends on the overall context of the
program (like configuration variables that may not be fully read by the
time the module is imported).

  Ian






From rdickins at usaor.net  Sat Jul  5 16:39:55 2003
From: rdickins at usaor.net (Robert Dickinson)
Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2003 16:39:55 -0400
Subject: pyAnt vs SCons
Message-ID: <vgedtii8i3d98a@corp.supernews.com>

Maybe there was a discussion here about these two Python configuration
tools. If so, I didn't find it.

Anyone who has used both and can compare?

-- Rob --





From mfranklin1 at gatwick.westerngeco.slb.com  Mon Jul 21 08:23:06 2003
From: mfranklin1 at gatwick.westerngeco.slb.com (Martin Franklin)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 13:23:06 +0100
Subject: Python scripting with Paint Shop Pro 8.0
In-Reply-To: <rajnhv0g0d21okj8uhebsakehgm9i6slvh@4ax.com>
References: <kl3lhvgh5iillo5g9jvff92qkc8i2022nm@4ax.com>
 <mailman.1058775152.5377.python-list@python.org>
 <rajnhv0g0d21okj8uhebsakehgm9i6slvh@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <200307211323.06752.mfranklin1@gatwick.westerngeco.slb.com>

On Monday 21 July 2003 12:29, Marc Wilson wrote:
> In comp.lang.python,  Martin Franklin
> <mfranklin1 at gatwick.westerngeco.slb.com> (Martin Franklin) wrote in
>
> <mailman.1058775152.5377.python-list at python.org>::
> |On Sunday 20 July 2003 13:48, Marc Wilson wrote:
> |> Hi,
> |>
> |> I'm a complete Python newbie, though I know at least one regular in
> |> here.
> |>
> |> :)
> |>
> |> I've just got Paint Shop Pro 8.0, and the functionality of the old
> |> ImageRobot add-on has been replaced with the new Python Scripting.
> |>
> |> So far, OK.
> |>
> |> What I'm trying to determine is: can I run these scripts from a
> |> command-line invocation?  I want to use the scripts to automatically
> |> convert files as they arrive, uploaded onto a website, not
> |> interactively.
> |>
> |> Has anyone played with this?
> |> --
> |> Marc Wilson
> |
> |Marc,
> |
> |This is not an answer to your question... but if you just want to convert
> | an image file into another format then upload it to a server you could
> | use a pure python solution (well pure python + PIL)
> |
> |PIL is here:-
> |
> |http://www.pythonware.com/products/pil/
> |
> |In fact a quick browse through the handbook and I found this:-
> |
> |http://www.pythonware.com/library/pil/handbook/pilconvert.htm
> |
> |and I quote:-
> |
> |"""
> |Convert an image from one format to another. The output format is
> | determined by the target extension, unless explicitly specified with the
> | -c option.
> |
> |    $ pilconvert lena.tif lena.png
> |    $ pilconvert -c JPEG lena.tif lena.tmp
> |
> |
> |"""
>
> It's a start- actually, we want to convert the file to JPEG (if not
> already), sharpen it, fix the size and also derive a thumbnail from it.
>
> We used something called Image Robot, a helper application from JASC.  Now
> that they have integrated this functionality into PSP, they no longer
> support IR, and we're having odd problems with it, so we're looking to see
> if we can do the same thing with a supported level.
>
> While I'm sure Python is a lovely language, the choice is due to PSP using
> the scripting engine: if I have to write something from scratch (or even
> from bits'n'bobs), I'll use a language I already know.
>
> |To upload the image to a server you could use the ftplib module...
>
> Already got it on the server- the customers upload the files using a web
> form.

Marc,

Point taken... I just can't resist showing you how easy it is in Python.....

# PIL IMPORTS
import Image, ImageEnhance

im = Image.open("gnome-mixer.jpg")

enhancer = ImageEnhance.Sharpness(im)
eim = enhancer.enhance(2.0)
eim.save("gnome-mixer-sharp.jpg", "JPEG")

eim.thumbnail((10, 10))
eim.save("gnome-mixer-thumb.jpg", "JPEG")


And this is the first time I've used PIL.


Cheers,
Martin.











From dmbkiwi at yahoo.com  Sat Jul 12 20:24:32 2003
From: dmbkiwi at yahoo.com (dmbkiwi)
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 12:24:32 +1200
Subject: Python - if/else statements
References: <pan.2003.07.11.19.34.16.330762@yahoo.com> <vgvqtg9tgpi85c@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2003.07.13.00.24.29.750394@yahoo.com>

On Sat, 12 Jul 2003 07:06:33 -0400, John Roth wrote:

> Is there anything consistent about either the version of
> Python these people are using, or the version of KDE?
> The reason I ask is that there are a lot of different
> versions out there, and while the Python maintainers
> are very good, some of them have subtle bugs. Likewise
> for KDE, and for various distributions.

I believe that they are using suse8.2, with python 2.2.3.  Not sure what
version of kde, but it will be either kde-3.1.1, or 3.1.2.

> 
> I also second Bengt's comment about tabs. Outlook
> Express, for one, eliminates them so your code example
> is simply unreadable. The python standard coding style
> is to use 4 spaces for each level of indentation. Python
> aware editors supply them automatically when you hit
> the tab key.
> 
> John Roth
> 

Thanks for the tip.  I'll try to see if the editor I use (kate will do
that).  Might I also suggest that you use a better newsreader than OE (not
wanting to start anything here).  But there must be something better for
windows than that surely?  I know the pan developers have a windows port.

Matt



From garth at deadlybloodyserious.com  Thu Jul 31 08:59:28 2003
From: garth at deadlybloodyserious.com (Garth Kidd)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 22:59:28 +1000
Subject: Ver 2.3 install over 2.2?
In-Reply-To: <000001c35727$a3dbd4e0$21795418@dell1700>
Message-ID: <000001c35763$96459ff0$8a01010a@gkiddxp2>

> The reason that these extensions don't work is that VC7
> introduced incompatibilities in the C runtime library. The 
> layout for the FILE data type has changed, for example, so 
> extensions using the FILE returned by PyFile_AsFile may crash. 

Oh. Fair enough. 

I've installed VC6, and I still can't build extensions. I don't think
distutils is looking hard enough; it can't see VC6 even though I've run
VCVARS32.BAT, the environment variables are all there, and I can run CL.EXE
with no problems. 

Digging a little...

For whatever reason, I don't have any registry keys named
r"Software\Microsoft\Devstudio\6.0\Build System". I do, on the other hand,
have a convenient MSVCDIR environment variable once I run VCVARS32.BAT. 

I've submitted patch 780821: 

http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&aid=780821&group_id=5470&atid=30
5470

Regards,
Garth.





From drs at ecp.cc  Fri Jul 11 20:41:50 2003
From: drs at ecp.cc (drs)
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 00:41:50 GMT
Subject: More ZEO/ZODB issues
Message-ID: <iPIPa.16045$BM.5137664@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com>

I don't seem to be getting any bites on the earlier post ...

so here is my problem in a nutshell.  I started a ZEO server on one computer
(\\camus) using

C:\>python C:\Python22\Lib\site-packages\ZEO\start.py -p 9000 C:\db\tmp.fs

that is fine

on another computer I typed the following from a python prompt:
>>> from ZEO import ClientStorage
>>> from ZODB import DB
>>> addr = ('camus', 9000)
>>> storage = ClientStorage.ClientStorage(addr)
>>> db = DB(storage)
>>> conn = db.open()
>>> d = conn.root()

I went to a third computer and did the same.

from either of the clients, I can manipulate d by doing
>>> d[key] = value
but the other client can't see the change. I have also tried using
>>> get_transaction().begin()
>>> d['0'] = 0
>>> get_transaction().commit()

and
>>> storage.sync()

but the other client still does not see changes.  If, however, the other
client does
>>> get_transaction().begin()
>>> d[key] = value
>>> get_transaction().commit()
it will throw an error, but d will contain the changes from the first
client.

Obviously I am not getting something.  The only ZEO examples I can find use
BTrees which is not what I want. So, can someone show me how to use a ZEO
server as a simple dictionary?

Thanks,

-doug






From skip at pobox.com  Mon Jul 14 15:08:40 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 14:08:40 -0500
Subject: www.python.org hacked?
In-Reply-To: <3F12FA18.B04B400E@engcorp.com>
References: <5cf68ce0.0307141017.1f3fe18e@posting.google.com>
        <3F12FA18.B04B400E@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <16146.65464.856825.821717@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    Peter> Have we been hacked, or is this human error during maintenance?

Human error.  We have a full disk situation.  One of the webmasters
attempted to tweak the home page during that time.

Skip





From alex_eberts at videotron.ca  Mon Jul 14 14:36:31 2003
From: alex_eberts at videotron.ca (Alexander Eberts)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 14:36:31 -0400
Subject: Accessing an instance's __init__ args from outside the class
References: <sfAQa.21645$O55.673402@wagner.videotron.net> <Xns93B8AC76381A5duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <RKCQa.27757$O55.714325@wagner.videotron.net>

Duncan,

Thanks for your response - much appreciated. Do you know how the python
interpreter handles *args and **kwargs passed to a class's __init__ method?
(maybe the better question is "what section in the python docs describes how
class args are handled" :)

all the best,

Alex

"Duncan Booth" <duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk> wrote in message
news:Xns93B8AC76381A5duncanrcpcouk at 127.0.0.1...
> "Alexander Eberts" <alex_eberts at videotron.ca> wrote in
> news:sfAQa.21645$O55.673402 at wagner.videotron.net:
>
> >  Is there any way to find out what arguments an object was called
> > with?
>
> Not in general.
>
> > Are the args stored with the instance?
>
> It depends on the object type. Some objects may save some or all of the
> arguments to the constructor, but it is up to each object to decide what
to
> do with its arguments. If you create your own class, and want to be able
to
> refer to the __init__ arguments after returning from __init__, then you
> must save the arguments in the object.
>
> So, for your original example you could do:
>
> >>> class Foo:
>     def __init__(self, *args):
>         self.args = args
>         print args                        # no problem here
>
>
> >>> someobj = Foo('bar', 'bleck')
> ('bar', 'bleck')
> >>> someobj.args
> ('bar', 'bleck')
>
> -- 
> Duncan Booth                                             duncan at rcp.co.uk
> int month(char *p){return(124864/((p[0]+p[1]-p[2]&0x1f)+1)%12)["\5\x8\3"
> "\6\7\xb\1\x9\xa\2\0\4"];} // Who said my code was obscure?





From Kepes.Krisztian at peto.hu  Tue Jul  1 03:48:18 2003
From: Kepes.Krisztian at peto.hu (Krisztian Kepes)
Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 09:48:18 +0200
Subject: Python -> To Exe or/and Elf
Message-ID: <sf015c1b.060@testmail.peto.hu>

Hi !

Have the python a compiler what can create native win exe or linux elf from any py program ?

Please help me !

KK





From mwilson at the-wire.com  Fri Jul 25 12:49:53 2003
From: mwilson at the-wire.com (Mel Wilson)
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 12:49:53 -0400
Subject: How to detect typos in Python programs
References: <ZPaUa.6$gZ.133@news.oracle.com> <3F214977.AEB088C8@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <x+VI/ks/K/yd089yn@the-wire.com>

In article <3F214977.AEB088C8 at engcorp.com>,
Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:
>Manish Jethani wrote:
>>
>> Is there a way to detect typos in a Python program, before
>> actually having to run it.  Let's say I have a function like this:
>>
>>   def server_closed_connection():
>>     session.abost()
>>
>> Here, abort() is actually misspelt.  The only time my program
>> follows this path is when the server disconnects from its
>> end--and that's like once in 100 sessions.  [ ... ]
>
>You have no good alternative.  Why do you say it's impractical
>to actually test your software before it's shipped?  Isn't it
>more impractical to rely on your users to test the software,
>thinking it should work?

The proposed typo catcher would probably catch a typo like

        sys.edit (5)    # finger didn't get off home row

but it probably would *NOT* catch

        sys.exit (56)   # wide finger mashed two keys

Testing really is a Good Thing.

        Regards.        Mel.



From kylotan at hotmail.com  Wed Jul 30 07:26:39 2003
From: kylotan at hotmail.com (Kylotan)
Date: 30 Jul 2003 04:26:39 -0700
Subject: time, calendar, datetime, etc
Message-ID: <153fa67.0307300326.45a29380@posting.google.com>

Is there any chance of these modules becoming somewhat combined in the
future? Right now it seems a little awkward to find the function you
want. The main culprit is 'timegm' which is the only thing I need from
the calendar module but which should probably be in the time module.
And does datetime.timetuple() actually return something equivalent to
a struct_time as used by the time module? At first glance this looks
to be true, but it isn't clearly documented as such.

Personally I think 2 separate modules (1 high level, 1 low level
corresponding to the C api) would suffice, or even to combine it all
into one coherent module. Is there any benefit to the status quo that
I am missing?

PS. I use 'time.strptime(myTime, '%a %b %d %H:%M:%S %Y')' as a
reverse-asctime(), and was surprised that I couldn't find this wrapped
in a function in any of the modules. Maybe such a function would be
considered for future addition?

-- 
Kylotan



From mcherm at mcherm.com  Wed Jul 16 09:26:01 2003
From: mcherm at mcherm.com (Michael Chermside)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 06:26:01 -0700
Subject: anything like C++ references?
Message-ID: <1058361961.3f1552699760a@mcherm.com>

Stephen Horne writes:
> 'value' is a term which has meaning in mathematics and computer
> science. Values are *always* immutable, whatever language you use.
> 
> In Python, assignment takes a name and binds it to an object (or a
> pointer to that object).
> 
> In C/C++, assignment takes a name and binds it to a symbolic
> representation of a value.
> 
> Objects can be mutable. Representations can be mutable. However, using
> that mutability should respect the idea from mathematics of variables
> binding to values. The fact that the binding is implemented using
> objects or symbolic representations is irrelevant - they are low level
> implementation details. You shouldn't have to worry about them in a
> 'very high level' language.
> 
> Of course if you explicitly ask to deal with the object (rather than
> the value) that is a different thing. But that isn't the case in
> Python. It fails to respect the mathematical concept of variables
> binding to values BY DEFAULT. This regularly causes confusion and
> errors.

Stephen:

AHA! I think I've got it. Your problem is that you are expecting
Python to operate on values -- and it DOESN'T. When I write
    x = 2
in python, it is NOT binding the variable "x" to the value 2. Instead,
it is binding the variable "x" to the OBJECT 2. Of course, since
int objects are immutable, this difference is meaningless pedantry.
But as soon as you write
    x = MyObject()
the difference quickly becomes meaningful.

So there are several ways one could "fix" Python to match your
expectations. One would be to introduce "values"... right now, Python
has only objects at the language level, and the "values" are a
theoretical construct built on top of that. Another would be to
make all objects immutable, then the distinction between objects and
values could become a mere implementation detail, and the language
could be said to contain "values". But as things stand, "values"
(as you define them) do not exist in Python.

I submit that you may find this be a more useful way to view things --
not that Python's implementation of assignment fails to match your
expectation, but that Python provides no true access to "values", only
to the more complex construct "objects" (although a strong equivalence
exists  for immutable types).

Do you find this alternate explanation useful?

-- Michael Chermside





From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Jul  4 18:30:22 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 18:30:22 -0400
Subject: pyBoards.com
References: <191e20c8.0307031711.42d4e46b@posting.google.com> <3f054d9a$0$13803$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net> <840592e1.0307040900.14e3e668@posting.google.com> <3F05C39D.3F65B89C@engcorp.com> <be4ijf$oj2$1@panix3.panix.com>
Message-ID: <3F05FFFE.DB98BF44@engcorp.com>

Aahz wrote:
> 
> In article <3F05C39D.3F65B89C at engcorp.com>,
> Peter Hansen  <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:
> >
> >Google Groups likely takes its feed directly of a Usenet site, and Usenet
> >in general suffers from large propagation delay.  It is that delay, caused
> >by messages filtering slowly across the Usenet network, which leads to the
> >"5 answers" problem, not Google Groups itself.
> 
> Actually, Google uses at least two or three feeds (including
> stanford.edu, which has a super-competent news admin), and Usenet
> propagation is actually little short of e-mail speeds these days,
> depending on where you're located.

That might be, but empirically I've seen posts that I've made take 
hours to get there, and I've seen posts that were made to the mailing
list (and copied to me directly) take hours to get there.  In both 
cases, there is an "upwards" propagation delay towards whatever hosts
Google is milking before stanford.edu or the others will see it...



From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Jul 10 12:37:02 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 12:37:02 -0400
Subject: delete file
References: <2c6431ab.0307100711.780a65ad@posting.google.com> <mailman.1057851734.20147.python-list@python.org> <QugPa.26879$FN3.2233696@news.ono.com>
Message-ID: <3F0D962E.23DA9F59@engcorp.com>

"Bartolom? Sintes Marco" wrote:
> 
> I have a program that unzip some zip files. After unzipping them,
> I want to delete the zip files with os.remove, but I get this error:
> OSError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: ....

Close the files properly after unzipping them, perhaps?  If that
doesn't help, please specify operating system, and give details
on how you are unzipping.  Is it using Python's zipfile module,
or some other method, and exactly how do you do it?

-Peter



From trentm at ActiveState.com  Tue Jul 29 14:47:34 2003
From: trentm at ActiveState.com (Trent Mick)
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 11:47:34 -0700
Subject: Debugging Python ?
In-Reply-To: <vian1bbfkogpa1@news.supernews.com>; from newsgroups@jhrothjr.com on Mon, Jul 28, 2003 at 01:23:43PM -0400
References: <mailman.1059409013.10134.python-list@python.org> <vian1bbfkogpa1@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <20030729114734.G1753@ActiveState.com>

...
> Which mine do, quite frequently. By the time you get this far,
> you've pretty much got a logging system.
...

Python's new logging system (standard in the coming Python 2.3 and
available for Python versions back to 1.5.2 here
http://www.red-dove.com/python_logging.html) is good for not
re-inventing the wheel here. Granted there is a learning curve greater
than:
    if __debug__: print "yada yada yada"
but it is time well spent.

Cheers,
Trent

-- 
Trent Mick
TrentM at ActiveState.com




From wilkSPAM at OUTflibuste.net  Fri Jul  4 05:26:21 2003
From: wilkSPAM at OUTflibuste.net (Wilk)
Date: 04 Jul 2003 11:26:21 +0200
Subject: FYI:  pyBoards.com
References: <191e20c8.0307031711.42d4e46b@posting.google.com> <3F04E609.2010500@dadsetan.com> <pan.2003.07.04.04.22.34.435148@scalegen.com>
Message-ID: <87llvefxs2.fsf@flibuste.net>

Tyler Eaves <tyler at scalegen.com> writes:

> On Fri, 04 Jul 2003 03:27:21 +0100, Behrang Dadsetan wrote:
> 
> > A bit a pitty the message board system is php based..
> 
> > Ben.
> 
> Why? Right tool for the job and all that...

It's not the right tool, php board system are very heavy to host. A
webserver with in memory persistence data will be ideal for this kind of
things.
They exists in zope i think, but it's a little bit heavy also... We have
a lot of webserver in python, we shall do somethings !

With google i found this one :
http://sourceforge.net/projects/tboard
"Design Goals (In short: a phpBB clone with various power-ups)"


-- 
William Dode - http://flibuste.net



From domma at procoders.net  Sun Jul  6 15:36:17 2003
From: domma at procoders.net (Achim Domma)
Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2003 21:36:17 +0200
Subject: Search for mapping solution
References: <be9t66$2otne$1@ID-47851.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <be9tnh$59n$03$1@news.t-online.com>

"Markus Joschko" <jocsch at phreaker.net> wrote in message
news:be9t66$2otne$1 at ID-47851.news.dfncis.de...
> Name - Number - Costs
>
> lines = [['fred','333','0,10'],['sam','444','1'],['fred','333','0,50']]
>
> Now I want to have it in a dictionary(name,costs)  Should look like
> {'fred':'0,60' , 'sam':'1'}

I would do it like this:

lines = [['fred','333','0.10'],['sam','444','1'],['fred','333','0.50']]
costs = {}
for name,number,price in lines:
    costs[name] = costs.setdefault(name,0)+float(price)
print costs

Achim





From bignose-hates-spam at and-benfinney-does-too.id.au  Thu Jul 24 18:20:28 2003
From: bignose-hates-spam at and-benfinney-does-too.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: 25 Jul 2003 08:10:28 +0950
Subject: not able to run
References: <mailman.1059080620.22999.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrnbi0o2s.hkq.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>

On Thu, 24 Jul 2003 16:01:18 -0500 (CDT), Joe Kmoch wrote:
> # python2.2
> ld.so.1: python2.2: fatal: libstdc++.so.5: open failed: No such file or directory
> Killed
> [...]
> I'm not sure what I should do next.

Install all dependencies for any software you want to run.

-- 
 \       "I bet one legend that keeps recurring throughout history, in |
  `\           every culture, is the story of Popeye."  -- Jack Handey |
_o__)                                                                  |
http://bignose.squidly.org/ 9CFE12B0 791A4267 887F520C B7AC2E51 BD41714B



From claird at lairds.com  Wed Jul  2 11:21:17 2003
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 15:21:17 -0000
Subject: does lack of type declarations make Python unsafe?
References: <3064b51d.0306151228.22c595e0@posting.google.com> <3EEDEC19.CA5786DC@engcorp.com> <slrnbesnch.hcf.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local> <3EEE789A.3DD19DA4@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <vg5u3dm05iip08@corp.supernews.com>

In article <3EEE789A.3DD19DA4 at engcorp.com>,
Peter Hansen  <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:
			.
			.
			.
>> Automated testing, carefully thought out, can increase this fraction
>> significantly; but "run the software before you give it to the customer"
>> is a laughably inferior way of finding bugs.
>
>I agree, that would indeed be a laughable, not to mention ineffective, approach.
>
>-Peter

Yet I must testify that there are plenty of big-budget
development operations whose operation doesn't achieve
*that* level of sophistication.

I note that just for some sort of balance.  Please,
let's not hold ourselves back to their level of in-
competence.
-- 

Cameron Laird <Cameron at Lairds.com>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
Personal:  http://phaseit.net/claird/home.html



From tim.one at comcast.net  Sun Jul 13 14:04:00 2003
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 14:04:00 -0400
Subject: floating point control in extensions
In-Reply-To: <92tOKLARvSE$Ewh9@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCOEDKEOAB.tim.one@comcast.net>

[Robin Becker]
> Is there a preferred way to intercept floating point exceptions in
> python extensions? I assume one should be careful to restore any
> existing error handler.

Python itself assumes that no-stop mode is in effect (the IEEE-754 mandated
default:  all FPU traps are disabled).

> Does python have a standard mechanism for setting up fpu control
> words etc?

See Modules/fpectlmodule.c.  Note that the 2.3 NEWS file says:

> - The fpectl module is not built by default; it's dangerous or
>   useless except in the hands of experts.

fpectlmodule.c is a cross-platform nightmare, it often doesn't work even on
the platforms someone once tried to make it work on (the magic incantations
required sometimes even vary across specific releases of specific compilers
on specific platforms), and it appeared that nobody used it anyway.  If
compiler vendors eventually implement the optional IEEE-754 API defined by
C99, that would allow a much saner approach.

iow-for-now-you're-on-your-own-ly y'rs  - tim





From gh at ghaering.de  Fri Jul 11 11:16:08 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 17:16:08 +0200
Subject: Python extension on Windows
In-Reply-To: <bemf6t$l1r$1@news-reader4.wanadoo.fr>
References: <bemf6t$l1r$1@news-reader4.wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <3F0ED4B8.4080401@ghaering.de>

David Isal wrote:
> hi all,
> i'm new to python and i'm trying to build a python extension on win98,
> written in c++, with cygwin.^

So we're talking native win32 here, right? You *can* use the Cygwin 
toolset to compile native win32 executables and DLLs, but I prefer to 
use MINGW for this.

> but i keep having the same error message, and i didnt't find much 
> resources on the web about it:
>  >g++ -I/cygdrive/c/python22/include -c demomodule.cpp -o demomodule.o
> 
> In file included from /cygdrive/c/python22/include/Python.h:62,
>                  from demomodule.cpp:1:
> /cygdrive/c/python22/include/pyport.h:480:2: #error "LONG_BIT definition 
> appears wrong for platform (bad gcc/glibc config?)."

Yep. Use MINGW, the native GCC for win32. That's what I use and where I 
could help you with.

If you want to continue using Cygwin to build extension modules, be sure 
to have the win32api Cygwin package installed.

> i read that it is mandatory to use Micro$oft visual c++ to build any 
> extensions on windows beacuse it's the same compiler used to build 
> python for windows.

That's wrong. See 
http://www.python.org/doc/current/inst/non-ms-compilers.html

> does anybody has advices about that?

Yes, read the above page :-)

I also recommend to use distutils to compile Python extensions instead 
of trying to find out the correct compiler and linker options yourself. 
It's the easiest way to compile Python extensions, no matter what the 
platform.

See http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/66509 for a 
recipe.

Build it using mingw or Cygwin with this command:

c:/python22/python setup.py build --compiler=mingw32

I'd recommend you try a minimal C extension first before using C++. IIRC 
  I needed to use something like libraries=["stdc++"] for making a C++ 
extension with distutils.

-- Gerhard




From klappnase at freenet.de  Thu Jul 17 06:13:23 2003
From: klappnase at freenet.de (klappnase)
Date: 17 Jul 2003 03:13:23 -0700
Subject: Problem recording large files with snack
Message-ID: <9a410299.0307170213.2f6fb735@posting.google.com>

I am trying to develop some little sound applications for linux with
python using the Snack toolkit (I am far from being a "professional"
programmer, I just do this for fun and I am afraid that I'm still a
beginner).
Now I have this problem when I want to record large wav-files that
every time a screensaver starts up (or other programs are started)
there is a loss of audio data in the recording, so for example ten
seconds are completely missing.
The way I start recording is something like:

s = tkSnack.Sound(encoding="Lin16", frequency=44100, channels=2,
    fileformat="WAV",precision="double", byteteorder="littleEndian",
    file="xyz.wav")
s.record()

The "buffersize" option does not seem to have any effect on this
problem.
Does anyone know how to fix this?



From rastm2 at aol.commorespam  Sun Jul 27 00:15:39 2003
From: rastm2 at aol.commorespam (Raymond Arthur St. Marie II of III )
Date: 27 Jul 2003 04:15:39 GMT
Subject: Del's "except"ional PEP Rejection
Message-ID: <20030727001539.05032.00000548@mb-m26.aol.com>


Ladieees and Gentilmen and Pyth-O-neers of all ages.
	Step right up. 
	Don't be shy.
	Come one come all.
	Be the first on your block 
	       TO GROK 
	*THE* one *THE* only
        Exception you won't find 
		any where but here!
	The Exception that's Exceptional!

	It's the "elif from lamdba except" Exception.
	(The only Exception that don't 
		need an "except" clause, 
			Because it *IS* one.)

It's the story of Del, an intermitantly deaf,
intermitantly nauseated importation executive 
with Print Global Inc. 

Del's a company man, 
and the 150 year old, family owned
company needs someone
to lead them all into the 21'st Century.

Having over heard...

( It's amazing how some people who seem 
deaf at times can hear things 
from what 
was supposed to be a
closed door meeting between ) 

...the VP of Statis 
talking down to 
the 85 year old Chief of Data Processing ...

( History Note--that's what they
used to call them you know -- 
worked his way up from crank turner 
-- but I digress )
...
what was I saying    oh yeah 

Del over heard the VP telling the old guy,

"Hell, my 12 year kid stuck *some* kinda snake, 
wait it was a python, 
yeah he stuck a python in
an old Apple II 
that was in the attic a week ago
Sunday and started typeing like 
mad and by Thursday he was 
telling me that he had gone 
GLOBAL and wouldn't
need his allowance anymore. 

No it's time to upgrade.
Shut down the ENIAC."

Cut to the "ever butt kissing" Del, half deaf, sitting
in Python school. 
Well, sorta sitting 'cuz' Del's got
bowel problems and he needs another pass from the 
Instructor to go to the lav.

Sitting on the pot, like a splash,
a thought hits him.
( gosh I hope it was just a thought )

Ya see, Dan didn't just volenteer for this mission,
he was holding back from the company.
He new a litte "c" code. Just enough to be dangerous,
and it made him sick to his stomach.

But this Python Language!
He truely understood and liked what he was learing.

Python was indented so you could read it like 
a self respecting human being.

It was impressive to him, the way you could write your 
code in the interpreter, and did't have to declare 
anything or agonize while you waited to see if it worked.

He liked the way "elif" statements made case switches 
easier to code and understand. 

How "from" this "import" that made code re-usable.

How "lamda" could define a function in a function 
without having to define a function for a function.

How exceptions could be used to make programs that
worked the first time.

He loved the "while loops" and the list comprehensions 
that had little "for loops" and "if"s in them.

He like how any one on the planet,
with enough money to
maintain a computer and an internet connection,
could just be so very proud that they had their 
PEP rejected
by the most intelligent, helpful,
thoughtful, and kindest people on Earth.

Sitting right there on the throne of inspiration 
he came up with the only 
exception that uses all the keywords, 
types all in one color in the editor, 
and makes sense to only him, 
so he sent in a PEP to be rejected...

wait for it 

wait for it 

Bam!
The elif from lambda except: statment 

elif from lambda except:
	while del is not def: 
		[import exec for print global]
	try: 
		continue or 
	else: 
		raise and return break pass in class 
	finally: 
		yeild if assert 

*PYTHON* 
	*THE*WAY
	*GUIDO*
		*INDENTED*
	*IT*TO*BE*

By Raymond St. Marie (Rastm2 at aol.com -- don't laugh,
it's been free since I lost my job in January)



From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Sat Jul 12 07:47:55 2003
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 07:47:55 -0400
Subject: Windows XP - Environment variable - Unicode
References: <3f0e77fc@epflnews.epfl.ch>
Message-ID: <vgvtb26kob5035@news.supernews.com>

"sebastien.hugues" <sebastien.hugues at swissinfo.org> wrote in message
news:3f0e77fc at epflnews.epfl.ch...
> Hi
>
> I would like to retrieve the application data directory path of the
> logged user on
> windows XP. To achieve this goal i use the environment variable
> APPDATA.
>
> The logged user has this name: s?bastien. The second character is not an
> ascii one and when i try to encode the path that contains this name in
> utf-8,
> i got this error:
>
> Ascii error: index not in range (128)
>
> I would like to first decode this string and then re-encode it in utf-8,
but
> i am not able to find out what encoding is used when i make:
>
> appdata = os.environ ['APPDATA']
>
> Any ideas ?

I don't think encoding is an issue. Windows XP stores all character data as
unicode internally, so whatever you get back from os.environ() is either
going to be unicode, or it's going to be translated back to some single byte
code by Python. In the latter case, you may not be able to recover non-ascii
values, so Rob Willscroft's workaround to get the unicode version may be
your only hope.

If you're getting a standard string though, I'd try using Latin-1, or the
Windows
equivalent first (it's got an additional 32 characters that aren't in
Latin-1.)
Sorry I don't remember the actual names.

Note that Release 2.3 fixes the unicode problems for files under XP.
It's currently in late beta, though. I don't know if it fixes the
os.environ()
interface though, and it's rather late to get anything into 2.3.

John Roth


>
> Thanks in advance
> Sebastien
>





From intentionally at blank.co.uk  Tue Jul 15 00:27:05 2003
From: intentionally at blank.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 05:27:05 +0100
Subject: anything like C++ references?
References: <mailman.1058225603.22981.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <2a07hvo1ft7q7gedt4hq16g518iom905lu@4ax.com>

On Mon, 14 Jul 2003 18:30:15 -0500, sismex01 at hebmex.com wrote:

>> From: Tom Plunket [mailto:tomas at fancy.org] 
>> Sent: Lunes, 14 de Julio de 2003 06:15 p.m.
>> 
>> What I specifically want is a way to have a "second-level
>> binding", e.g. a reference to a reference (assuming that the
>> terminology is correct by saying that all Python variables are
>> references).  This is where I see the hole in Python, that there
>> actually is a class of object that is different from everything
>> else; you can bind to anything at all in the language...except
>> references.
>> 
>> -tom!
>>
>
>What for?  What would be the practical use for such a thing?
>To rebind a name remotely?  It's not very consistent with the
>rest of the language.
>
>To have functions which rebind a name in a hidden way seems
>to me like a veritable fountain of possible bugs.  Explicit
>is better than implicit and all that.

Absolutely. At present, people fake it by abusing mutable types. Or
else they fall over it when they are surprised by the behaviour of
mutable types. Wouldn't it be better if it was explicit? Wouldn't it
be better if it only happened when you actually asked for it?

>A binding can't also be a container, that's a job for an object,
>if you truly need to "pull" data from a code segment, then you
>should use a dictionary, or a list, or an instance of some
>other mutable class, heck, even an empty class:

Really. Is that what dictionaries are for? Or lists? Or other mutable
classes?

Or are you abusing the functionality of types intended for a different
purpose in order to fake pointers?




From python at grimes.org.uk  Tue Jul  1 09:25:53 2003
From: python at grimes.org.uk (Paul Grimes)
Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 14:25:53 +0100
Subject: PyQT and Mandrake 9.1
References: <bdrsbq$2a8d$1@biggoron.nerim.net> <bdrug5$vdeid$1@ID-174077.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <bds25p$nql$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk>

MK wrote:

> "Gilles Lenfant" <glenfant at NOSPAM.bigfoot.com> wrote
> 
>> I've been very excited by PyQT evangelists.
> 
> Be careful. QT is controlled by one company,

Sort of true

> and it costs money.

Not true, unless you want to distribute a closed source program

See http://www.kde.org/documentation/faq/misc.html#id2915591
or http://www.kde.org/whatiskde/qt.php
and http://www.kde.org/whatiskde/kdefreeqtfoundation.php

Paul



From roy at panix.com  Sun Jul 13 21:36:14 2003
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 21:36:14 -0400
Subject: anything like C++ references?
References: <13t0hvsb7idh0g6ac3upe5k0qd6flc17ah@4ax.com> <pan.2003.07.13.10.58.11.376531@127.0.0.1> <lq-cnWRG9rRuMIyiXTWJjQ@comcast.com> <b8c3hvsesjoumiboobml3nsnajtha99mp1@4ax.com> <1058126738.28456.424.camel@lothlorien> <mailman.1058131341.21911.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <roy-51CDBA.21361413072003@reader1.panix.com>

Jack Diederich <jack at performancedrivers.com> wrote:
> I was a long time C++ guy and my a-ha moment was when I realized that the
> GoF's "Design Patterns" were not all universal -- some are C++ specific.
> Trying to force Python semantics into a C++ world view will leave you feeling
> empty every time.

Thank you for writing this, it makes me feel better!

I was having exactly this discussion just a couple of days ago with our 
local hard-core C++ guy (who also poo-poo's Python, even though he's 
never actually tried it).  I made exactly the point Jack made -- that 
the Design Pattern book is rather C++-centric, and some of it just 
doesn't tranlate into Python very well.

For example, in the chapter  on the Singleton pattern, a lot of time is 
devoted to (what I consider) esoterica in the C++ access control system 
(making copy constructors private, and all that stuff) to make sure 
nobody can cheat and find a way to make a copy of the singleton.  None 
of that makes any sense in Python because (for better or worse), the 
concept of private members just doesn't exist.



From max at alcyone.com  Sat Jul 19 22:19:44 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 19:19:44 -0700
Subject: Newbie! I'm a newbie! What's wrong with this program?
References: <5da8e4b3.0307191800.48dc0a6d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3F19FC40.C082B239@alcyone.com>

Id0x wrote:

> ##Function for converting minutes to hours##
> def minHour(x):
>   min = 60
>   hour = min * x
>   print hour

Your function does the conversion and then _prints_ the result.  It
doesn't return anything.

> print "There are", minHour(x_hours), "minutes in", x_hours, "hours";

Here you're trying to print the return value of minHour, which since you
didn't return anything, defaults to None.  Fix it by making that last
line of minHour

	return hour

instead of

	print hour

> newLine();
> print "Program Terminated.";
> newLine();

Note that Python does not require an end of line discriminator, so all
these semicolons are redundant (you seem to know this since since you
don't use them in some places, but use them in others).  (Also,
"newLine()" really is a curious abbreviation for "print" :-).

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ Love is a hole in the heart.
\__/  Ben Hecht



From nushin2 at yahoo.com  Wed Jul 23 14:30:32 2003
From: nushin2 at yahoo.com (nushin)
Date: 23 Jul 2003 11:30:32 -0700
Subject: How to disable spawnv's child process output messages
References: None <db3b6d24.0307221808.54896699@posting.google.com> <1058938603.850678@yasure>
Message-ID: <db3b6d24.0307231030.7dfa1b70@posting.google.com>

Hi Donn. Thanks for your response. Yes, in this case my parent process
is hello_moon.py that is spwaning the child process, hello_earth.py. I
am simply printing a hello world from each process and do not wish to
see any output messages from the child process, and i *have to* see
the output from the parent process, hello_moon.py

Could you please elaborate more on how i can use dup2( ) to disable
the output of the child process spawned by spawnv( ) API?

Regards,
BB (Nushin)

"Donn Cave" <donn at drizzle.com> wrote in message news:<1058938603.850678 at yasure>...
> Quoth nushin2 at yahoo.com (nushin):
> | I have a program called hello_earth.py that is spawned by
> | hello_moon.py, using spawnv( ) API as:
> |
> | os.spawnv(os.P_NOWAIT,'/usr/bin/python',('python','hello_earth.py'),('>/dev/null
> | &'))
> |
> | I do not wish to see any output messages from the hello_earth.py when
> | it is launched by its parent process and i do wish to see *only* the
> | output messages from the parent process in the shell. Is Python
> | capable to so such a thing?
> 
> What is the parent process in the shell?  You mean the one that calls
> spawnv()?  If so - yes, Python can do that.  But not so easily.  You
> can look at how spawnv is implemented (it's in Python), and read up
> on the dup2 function (man 2 dup2) to see what's needed.  spawnv can't
> do any kind of redirection.  I think I posted an example here a couple
> weeks ago.
> 
> Or you can use the shell, more or less the way you were going but you
> never invoked it -
>   os.spawnv(os.P_NOWAIT, '/bin/sh', ['sh', '-c', 'python hello_earth.py > /dev/null'])
> 
> which is really about the same as
>   os.system('python hello_earth.py > /dev/null &')
> 
> 	Donn Cave, donn at drizzle.com



From ianb at colorstudy.com  Wed Jul  2 02:03:06 2003
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: 02 Jul 2003 01:03:06 -0500
Subject: Haskell distutils-type system
In-Reply-To: <bdsuor$10emu7$1@ID-124666.news.dfncis.de>
References: <mailman.1057089068.1044.python-list@python.org>
	 <bdsuor$10emu7$1@ID-124666.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <1057125786.725.146.camel@lothlorien>

On Tue, 2003-07-01 at 16:34, Gerhard H?ring wrote:
> > Do you / did you find yourself duplicating a lot of what make already
> > does, ie dependencies, etc, or do you utilize make?
> 
> AFAIK Python's distutils doesn't know about dependencies.

It seems clear to me that distutils would have no use for make's
dependencies.  distutils is for distribution of modules, not the
iterative development of those modules.  When you build a C extension,
you are always going to compile every file, since you are starting from
scratch.  Make's dependencies are only for speeding the developer's life
as they change individual files, it's not for the extension user or
installer.

  Ian






From rreagan at attbi.com  Thu Jul  3 19:48:08 2003
From: rreagan at attbi.com (Russell Reagan)
Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 23:48:08 GMT
Subject: A story about Python... sort of
References: <3f03f430$0$97222$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk> <FiZMa.2097$_k2.145814@nnrp1.ptd.net> <dGZMa.5172$351.1725266@twister.nyc.rr.com> <mailman.1057259346.26179.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Yg3Na.97773$R73.11565@sccrnsc04>

"Dave Brueck" <dave at pythonapocrypha.com> wrote

> > I
> > mean, is Linux (or Windows) 'not a viable project'??
>
> Well, again, neither of those are "applications level" projects.

There is a rather large industry which I'll call "computer games" that is
rather CPU intensive, and AFAIK the vast majority of those games are written
in C/C++. It really depends on the definition of "application level". If
we're only including things like word processors and web browsers in the
"application level", then there isn't a great need for C++ in the
"application level", but there are certainly areas where speed and memory
efficiency is important.

I will admit that I'm getting tired of writing a lot of the support code,
debugging, etc., most of which Python provides for "free".





From sismex01 at hebmex.com  Thu Jul 24 16:11:46 2003
From: sismex01 at hebmex.com (sismex01 at hebmex.com)
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 15:11:46 -0500
Subject: easy way to remove nonprintable chars from string
Message-ID: <F7DB8D13DB61D511B6FF00B0D0F062330587520A@mail.hebmex.com>

> From: Isaac Raway [mailto:isaac at blueapples.org] 
> Sent: Jueves, 24 de Julio de 2003 03:04 p.m.
> 
> This seems to work. Not sure how fast it'd be, though.
> 
> def stripNoPrint(str):
>     results = ""
>     for char in str:
>         if string.printable.find(char):
>             results += char
>     return results
>

And to make this thread end quickly, the functional version
of the above would be like:

def StripNoPrint(S):
    from string import printable
    return "".join(filter(lambda ch:ch in printable, S))

And converted to use list comprehensions:

def StripNoPrint(S):
    from string import printable
    return "".join([ ch for ch in S if ch in printable ])

HTH!!!

-gustavo
Advertencia:La informacion contenida en este mensaje es confidencial y
restringida, por lo tanto esta destinada unicamente para el uso de la
persona arriba indicada, se le notifica que esta prohibida la difusion de
este mensaje. Si ha recibido este mensaje por error, o si hay problemas en
la transmision, favor de comunicarse con el remitente. Gracias.




From op73418 at mail.telepac.pt  Tue Jul 29 09:22:10 2003
From: op73418 at mail.telepac.pt (Gonçalo Rodrigues)
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 14:22:10 +0100
Subject: Itertools
References: <KKtVa.8$Y5.1@llslave.llan.ll.mit.edu>
Message-ID: <gpsciv00p3mhb6dve5te5s9lq75gndvg2q@4ax.com>

On Tue, 29 Jul 2003 08:32:14 -0400, "Ronald Legere"
<legere at ll.mit.edu> wrote:

>The new itertools stuff is pretty cool. One thing that bothers me though is
>that
>there seems to be no way to copy an iterator. How does one work around this?
>Is
>there a trick that I am missing?
>
>Without being able to 'split' an iterator, I can't
>think of how to do some of the cool things you can do with lazy lists in
>Haskell. It seems
>quite often you want to be able to do this 'splitting', and if I
>had more coffee I would post an example :) The ones I
>can think of are also defined recursively, which is another kettle of fish.
>

Iterables can be more far general than lazy lists: think of a socket
as an iterable churning out lines of text, for example. How would one
go about copying these general iterables? 

You can take slices of iterables, though - can't remember the name,
islice? But since you don't know how to take copies of iterables in
general this may not be that useful.

> But I hope that someone knows
>what I am talking about and has thought of a way...
>Cheers!
>

With my best regards,
G. Rodrigues



From mertz at gnosis.cx  Mon Jul 14 21:57:32 2003
From: mertz at gnosis.cx (David Mertz)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 21:57:32 -0400
Subject: Which Python Book
References: <3F134200.8060708@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <M+1E/kKkXodP092yn@gnosis.cx>                       

hokiegal99 <hokiegal99 at hotmail.com> wrote previously:
|I have an option, I can buy either O'reilly's "Python in a Nutshell" or
|"Python Cookbook", but not both.
|I've found that I learn better when I look at actual programs written to
|solve problems, instead of abstract, theorhetical code that could be
|used to solve problems. I guess it would be best if I could take the
|abstract, theorhectical code and apply it to real-world problems, but
|that's a bit of a leap for me...

You might find that my recently released book is somewhere in between
the approaches of the above two books.  More code samples (and
specifically more "real world" code) than _Nutshell_, but a bit more
theoretical than _Cookbook_.  Both of Alex's books, however, are
extremely excellent; you can't go far wrong with those.

Of course, my title is _Text Processing in Python_, and the title does
not lie about the book's focus.  But then, almost everything *I* do is
some kind of text processing; YMMV.

In any case, you are welcome to read the entire book for free at its
website and/or buy a copy printed onto dead trees:

    http://gnosis.cx/TPiP/

Yours, David...

--
---[ to our friends at TLAs (spread the word) ]--------------------------
Echelon North Korea Nazi cracking spy smuggle Columbia fissionable Stego
White Water strategic Clinton Delta Force militia TEMPEST Libya Mossad
---[ Postmodern Enterprises <mertz at gnosis.cx> ]--------------------------





From Simon.Wittber at perth.maptek.com.au  Wed Jul  9 23:14:47 2003
From: Simon.Wittber at perth.maptek.com.au (Simon Wittber (Maptek))
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 11:14:47 +0800
Subject: Embedding Python, threading and scalability
Message-ID: <20E0F651F8B82F45ABCBACC58A2D995B0518AD@mexper1>

>I asked once and was told it was best fixed by removing the
documentation
>which mentioned it. Others also stated it was unlikely to be fixed.

This can be fixed. Give Guido a SMP machine. I'm sure the threading
issue would shortly be resolved.

Seriously though, this is an issue, which is a major hurdle Python *has*
to cross if it is ever going to be seriously considered for use on large
projects, on large SMP hardware.

SimonW.




From sismex01 at hebmex.com  Thu Jul 31 18:33:25 2003
From: sismex01 at hebmex.com (sismex01 at hebmex.com)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 17:33:25 -0500
Subject: Python's biggest compromises
Message-ID: <F7DB8D13DB61D511B6FF00B0D0F06233059B33C7@mail.hebmex.com>

> From: akhleung at earthlink.net [mailto:akhleung at earthlink.net] 
> Sent: Jueves, 31 de Julio de 2003 01:41 p.m.
> 
> It seems to me that a big compromise/feature is that all kinds of
> namespaces are usually represented by dictionaries, and that Python
> exposes this fact to the programmer.  This would seem to limit the
> possible optimizations that can easily be performed by a compiler.
> 
> BTW, I have only read about Python out of interest, and haven't
> actually used it for anything, so I hope my remark isn't ignorant.
> 
> Best regards,
> Aaron
>

Hello Aaron.

Actually, this which you call a compromise, is one of Python's
biggest strengths: it allows you, as a programmer, to perform
many things which in other languages would be simply impossible,
or at least would force you to jump through plenty loops and
hoops.

Take a look at Alex Martelli's Borg pattern, it shows what can
be done by having open access to class *and* object namespaces,
and being able to manipulate them.  In Python it's easy and
straightforward (eek), but in other languages, well... you have
whole books dedicated to that.

We're all adults, and all that. :-)

-gustavo



Advertencia:La informacion contenida en este mensaje es confidencial y
restringida, por lo tanto esta destinada unicamente para el uso de la
persona arriba indicada, se le notifica que esta prohibida la difusion de
este mensaje. Si ha recibido este mensaje por error, o si hay problemas en
la transmision, favor de comunicarse con el remitente. Gracias.




From rxs141 at cwru.edu  Tue Jul 22 23:34:28 2003
From: rxs141 at cwru.edu (Ravi)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 23:34:28 -0400
Subject: Python and VS.Net
Message-ID: <bfkvn6$msi$1@eeyore.INS.cwru.edu>

Has anyone tried building Python with VC++.NET? Does it work or fail 
horribly like I think it will. My boss seems to think it is good to have 
programs that are in managed code because it is more 'portable'. Not 
that there's another complete .NET runtime besides Microsoft's but he 
does not understand that.

Thanks for the help,

Ravi




From gh at ghaering.de  Fri Jul 11 14:07:33 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 20:07:33 +0200
Subject: Why Python
In-Reply-To: <3f0edd67.316281478@news.pa.comcast.giganews.com>
References: <3f0be9ac@news.comindico.com.au>
	<mailman.1057747872.29479.python-list@python.org>
	<3f0edd67.316281478@news.pa.comcast.giganews.com>
Message-ID: <3F0EFCE5.503@ghaering.de>

Chuck Spears wrote:
>>There are, but if you're into thin GUI clients like VB6, there is no 
>>direct equivalent.
> 
> LOL.  Tell our VB guys who have to bundle VB6 runtimes, MDAC, and
> other assorted Activex controls with their apps how thin VB6 clients
> are. 

I was mixing terms up. I was really meaning 'fat client' here (full 
win32 GUI/database access, etc.) in contrast to a 'thin client' 
(normally a browser-based interface with most processing happening on 
the backend web-/database server)

> If you want a truly thin windows client, use Delphi or C++
> Builder.

Executable/runtime size is pretty much irrelevant under most 
circumstances (read: intranets with scripted installs).

-- Gerhard




From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Tue Jul 22 22:50:38 2003
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 22:50:38 -0400
Subject: How does Mr. Martelli's Borg recipe work ?
References: <764b8294.0307221520.18017b09@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <vhru01p6s53790@news.supernews.com>

"Mars" <martin_a_clausen at hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:764b8294.0307221520.18017b09 at posting.google.com...
> I have looked long and hard at Mr. Martelli's Borg recipe:
>
> http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/66531
>
> It is a very useful substitute for a Singleton, but I can't figure out
> how it works. _shared_state is never assigned any value, only
> self.__dict__ is assigend self._shared_sate's value - or rather
> (self.)_shared_state must be assigned a value at some point, otherwise
> the code wouldn't work(right ?). I have gone through the code in the
> debugger several(many) times, and inserted god knows how many print
> statements, but without luck(or skill i guess).
>
> Just so you don't waste your time, i do understand that _shared_state
> is a class field(variable, or what not) and that its state is shared
> by all instances.
>
> Sorry if this question is banal, but I really need to understand this,
> even if it means exposing my complete lack of understanding as far as
> what is probaly basic Python knowledge.

I can kind of understand the justification for the Borg pattern
in Python releases before 2.2, because there was no way of
creating a true singleton in those releases. However, in 2.2 and
later, it's really easy to create one using new style classes.

The trick is to use the __new__() method instead of the
__init__ method. In the __new__ method, test to see if
you've created an instance  yet. If you have, just pass it
back. If you haven't, call object.__new__ to create an
instance, save it, initialize it and pass it back. There are the
usual issues with race conditions if you have multiple
threads before the first call, but those can be avoided
easily.

That being the case, I'd like to see the Borg pattern go the way
of a fondly remembered hack that is no longer necessary.

John Roth
>
> Regards,
>
> Martin





From Vincent.Raaijmakers at ge.com  Thu Jul 31 14:47:06 2003
From: Vincent.Raaijmakers at ge.com (Raaijmakers, Vincent (IndSys, GE Interlogix))
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 13:47:06 -0500
Subject: SQL2000 database vs python, using mssqldb
Message-ID: <55939F05720D954E9602518B77F6127F02F87006@FTWMLVEM01.e2k.ad.ge.com>

First of all, thanks for all the help guys!

Until now, lots of install problems on all the recommended packages/modules.

For now, my best option was to make use of my existing Pyro framework (thanks Irmen!)
I already build a MSSQL (Pyro/server)service on the windows box using mssqldb.
My linux app will talk to this service.
This at least has been installed successful and my service can already connect to the database.

So far so good: Now, I can't find the API of MSSQL. Not on the website nor in the installed folders. 
So, I tried to use the examples and only the connections seems successful.
When I try a select on a table, it tells me that the table name is an invalid object name.

Just tried a kind of a hello world example...

import mssqldb
import MSSQL
db = MSSQL.connect('my_db_server', 'user', 'password', 'my_database')
## so far, so good

c = db.cursor()
c.execute('select * from my_table')
## boom, error

c.fetchall()
c.nextset()

The ms sql enterprise manager shows me that the database and table is there.
Unfortunately, in python the error tells me: Invalid object name 'my_table'

Anyone with experience?
Where are the API's?

Vincent





From furliz at libero.it  Fri Jul 25 06:17:24 2003
From: furliz at libero.it (furliz)
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 12:17:24 +0200
Subject: newbie: Tkinter and COM objects
Message-ID: <bfr061$16p0$1@stargate1.inet.it>

Is it possible to embed a COM object instance in a Tkinter-based gui 
program?
If I would to use an instance of IExplorer or a Flash movie in a Tkinter 
window... how can I do it?
I hope I don't made a stupid question...




From bgailer at alum.rpi.edu  Wed Jul  9 15:16:48 2003
From: bgailer at alum.rpi.edu (Bob Gailer)
Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 13:16:48 -0600
Subject: check if dir exists
In-Reply-To: <pan.2003.07.09.19.01.24.826622@sdf-eu.org>
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20030709131556.0267a8a8@66.28.54.253>

At 09:01 PM 7/9/2003 +0200, Geiregat Jonas wrote:

>How can I check if a dir exists ?

os.path.exists(path) # Return true if path refers to an existing path.

Bob Gailer
bgailer at alum.rpi.edu
303 442 2625

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From gh at ghaering.de  Thu Jul 24 10:54:04 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 16:54:04 +0200
Subject: How to do raw Ethernet under Win32?
In-Reply-To: <3f1feeba$0$169$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
References: <3f1ed31a$0$181$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<3f1ee77f$0$160$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
	<mailman.1058996376.9482.python-list@python.org>
	<slrnbhung3.180.grante@localhost.localdomain>
	<mailman.1059034598.31317.python-list@python.org>
	<3f1feeba$0$169$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
Message-ID: <3F1FF30C.4030302@ghaering.de>

Grant Edwards wrote:
> I've never done any SWIG stuff before, but it looks like all I
> have to do is add some stuff to the .i file to export the
> pcap_sendpacket() function.

I haven't done any SWIG work, either (apart from unsuccessful tries at 
adding something to wxPython once). Instead I directly hacked the SWIG 
generated C code, so my patch is little but a quick hack.

It's also some time ago and I never used the thing myself, so don't ask 
me about details :-)

-- Gerhard




From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Tue Jul 22 10:10:49 2003
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 09:10:49 -0500
Subject: Search for a string in binary files
In-Reply-To: <bfjf6d$1f3$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu> (hokieghal99's message of
 "Tue, 22 Jul 2003 09:45:49 -0400")
References: <bfhldv$lb$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
	<mailman.1058840314.10448.python-list@python.org>
	<bfjf6d$1f3$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <m2znj6slcm.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

>>>>> "hokieghal99" == hokieghal99  <hokiegal99 at hotmail.com> writes:

    hokieghal99> And, would it be more efficent (faster) to just call
    hokieghal99> grep from python to do the searching?

Depending on how you call grep, probably.  If you respawn grep for
each file, it might be slower than the python solution.  If you first
build the file list of all the files you want to search and then call
grep on all the files simultaneously, it will likely be a good bit
faster.  But you will have to deal with issues like quoting spaces in
filenames, etc....

JDH




From bokr at oz.net  Thu Jul 24 15:51:42 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 24 Jul 2003 19:51:42 GMT
Subject: Mystery Theater New Style Classes
References: <mailman.1059062857.29503.python-list@python.org> <XJecnYZhwsZQub2iXTWJiQ@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <bfpdce$19c$0@216.39.172.122>

On Thu, 24 Jul 2003 14:26:20 -0400, "Terry Reedy" <tjreedy at udel.edu> wrote:

>
>"Bob Gailer" <bgailer at alum.rpi.edu> wrote in message
>news:mailman.1059062857.29503.python-list at python.org...
>> Predict the output:
>>
>> class A(int):
>>      classval = 99
>>      def __init__(self, val = 0):
>>          if val:
>>              self = val
>>          else:
>>              self = A.classval
>
>I am not sure what the point is.  However,
>
>1.  Rebinding the local variable 'self' (or any other local variable)
>only affects further code within the function, which there is not any.
>So the above conditional is equivalent to 'pass'.
>
>2.  Because ints are immutable, the value of a new int is set within
>int.__new__, which is not overwritten.  Thus, the above __init__ is
>irrelevant.  In particular, the value of an A object has nothing to do
>with the defaulted parameter 'val=0'.
>
>> a=A(3)
>
>3. This is equivalent to a=int(3).  No surprises.
>
>> b=A()
>
>4. This is equivalent to b = int().  I thought this might raise an
>exception.  But after seeing the result (0). I remember Guido's
>decision (and a recent PyDev discussion thereof) that callable builtin
>types should, if possible, return a null value when getting a null
>input.  Hence
>
>>>> int(), long(), float(), tuple(), list(), dict()
>(0, 0L, 0.0, (), [], {})
>
>> print a,b
>3,0
>
>5. Result is same if 'val=0' is changed to 'val=9' or anything else.
>
>> [from OP's self followup] The question this leads to is: how does
>one access the value of such a class within a class method?
>
>Since there is no class method presented, this make not much sense.
>Bob: were you aware of 4.) above when you posted this?
>
Maybe the OP will be helped by

 >>> class I(int):
 ...    def info(self): print type(self), self, type(int(self)), int(self)
 ...
 >>> i=I(123)
 >>> i.info()
 <class '__main__.I'> 123 <type 'int'> 123

and the "value" he wants is int(self) ?

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From usenet_spam at janc.invalid  Tue Jul  8 23:28:33 2003
From: usenet_spam at janc.invalid (JanC)
Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 03:28:33 GMT
Subject: Image Streaming
References: <381a2b17.0307072326.211c21b5@posting.google.com> <beetng$q06$1@peabody.colorado.edu>
Message-ID: <Xns93B337ABED93CJanC@213.118.75.80>

Fernando Perez <fperez528 at yahoo.com> schreef:

> or even gif (the patents expired recently).

Only in the US, not in (some countries in) Europe & Japan.

-- 
JanC

"Be strict when sending and tolerant when receiving."
RFC 1958 - Architectural Principles of the Internet - section 3.9



From postmaster at bag-mail.com  Thu Jul  3 03:08:24 2003
From: postmaster at bag-mail.com (postmaster at bag-mail.com)
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 09:08:24 +0200 
Subject: Undeliverable: Re: Movie
Message-ID: <F7C45E212201D711A6490002A508D6A901D0728F@cmx.wip.servicemail24.de>

Your message

  To:      austria at msdirectservices.com
  Subject: Re: Movie
  Sent:    Thu, 3 Jul 2003 09:07:16 +0200

did not reach the following recipient(s):

austria at msdirectservices.com on Thu, 3 Jul 2003 09:07:57 +0200
    The recipient name is not recognized
	The MTS-ID of the original message is: c=us;a=
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From db3l at fitlinxx.com  Wed Jul 23 12:14:29 2003
From: db3l at fitlinxx.com (David Bolen)
Date: 23 Jul 2003 12:14:29 -0400
Subject: python assignment
References: <mailman.1058928524.20417.python-list@python.org> <fbf8d8f2.0307230112.106340ac@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <u1xwhgqze.fsf@fitlinxx.com>

danbmil99 at yahoo.com (dan) writes:

> see my prev. post on this.  I realize my original assumptions were off
> base, but frankly the documentation does a poor job (really no job) of
> describing the state of affairs wrt how Python handles objects, and
> how this affects what happens when you assign things.  A section on
> names and binding principles would be much appreciated.

>From seeing the examples you are using, it seems to me that your issue
is much less with Python's object handling, or assignments/name
binding, but is really focused on the augmented assignment operators.

Perhaps the issue is that the documentation could be clearer that such
operators (thus the term "augmented") are not simply assignment
operators, but as Tim points out, syntactic sugar for a special method
call providing the possibility for differing behavior among different
object types (as would be true with any method call).  If you think of
them that way (as opposed to trying to keep them logically with
assignment statements) then perhaps things would seem more consistent.

-- David



From max at alcyone.com  Tue Jul 15 01:01:08 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 22:01:08 -0700
Subject: anything like C++ references?
References: <000301c348c7$3c501980$21795418@dell1700> <sag3hv4vf884ed7ouu5cv8ofnopp9j1t12@4ax.com> <bet1sd$ibl$1@panix3.panix.com> <sfa4hvkq1j7rg1iga5j3tk2cc4qpr6e5qk@4ax.com> <beueis$b1d$1@panix3.panix.com> <78c6hvgu599ku5denkkl7pgmd4n13t460i@4ax.com> <roy-204535.19175914072003@reader1.panix.com> <3F135328.89C1F89C@alcyone.com> <hmq6hv8amht3kis59pqgab5mbqekc5675c@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3F138A94.A41AFE1B@alcyone.com>

Stephen Horne wrote:

> The fact that Python has, in this respect, followed the C etc
> tradition doesn't mean it is doing the right thing.

But in a sense this is tilting at windmills.  One could make some
high-brow arguments about how these are the wrong choices of symbols for
these kinds of operations, but the simple fact is that the computer
science community as a whole -- far and wide -- has really grown
accustomed to it.  Nothing's preventing you from choosing some other
choice in your own language (if even those symbols would have relevance!
e.g. def/eq vs. =/==), but arguing that Python shouldn't do it because
that doesn't match mathematics is an academic (in both senses of the
word).  It does, there's wide community acceptance of this -- for better
or worse -- from a large and exceptionally popular family of languages
-- so that isn't going to change.

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ The actor is not quite a human being -- but then, who is?
\__/  George Sanders



From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Tue Jul 22 09:59:19 2003
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 08:59:19 -0500
Subject: Flat file to associative array.
In-Reply-To: <pan.2003.07.21.05.02.47.924820@antispam.com> ("Alex"'s message
 of "Mon, 21 Jul 2003 01:02:49 -0400")
References: <pan.2003.07.21.05.02.47.924820@antispam.com>
Message-ID: <m265luu0g8.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

>>>>> "Alex" == Alex  <bogus at antispam.com> writes:

    Alex> Hello, What would be the best way to convert a flat file of
    Alex> products into a multi-dimensional array? The flat file looks
    Alex> like this:

    Alex> Beer|Molson|Dry|4.50 Beer|Molson|Export|4.50
    Alex> Shot|Scotch|Macallan18|18.50 Shot|Regular|Jameson|3.00

I work with CSV files a lot, and do something similar.  I have written
some helper functions and classes that allow you to slice through flat
files as a 2D array, where the indices of the slices can either be
normal integer indices, or string keys, as in 

   from csvhelpers import getrows, rows_to_array
   #split the data on the | symbol
   def splitpipe(x):
       if len(x.replace('|','').strip())==0: return [] # empty row
       return x.split('|')
   
   rows = getrows( file('beer.flat'), splitpipe)
   headers=('category', 'brand', 'type', 'price')
   data = rows_to_array( rows,  headers)

   print data[:,'price']  # prints all the prices (as floats)
   print data[0]          # prints the first row
   print data             # prints everything

The getrows function does some extra work: for example it ignores
empty rows, tries to convert the individual data cells to int then
float, and ignores comments if you pass it an extra comment arg as in

   rows = getrows( file('beer.flat'), splitpipe, comment='#')

With this call, your flat file can look like

   Beer|Molson|Dry|4.50
   Beer|Molson|Export|4.50

   # now for some booze
   Shot|Scotch|Macallan18|18.50
   Shot|Regular|Jameson|3.00

For many of the CSV files I work with, there are headers in the first
non empty row of the file.  If you pass 'headers=1', rows_to_array
will get the headers and allow you to index the array with the header
strings.  Also, I often have a unique key for each row, like a medical
ID number.  An optional arg rowKeyInd lets you index the data by row
key string as well.  Here is an example CSV file containing stock
quote information.  The row keys are in the first column

   ,,,
   ticker,date,open,price
   ADPT,2001-12-13,100.0,20.0
   ,,,
   QQQ,2001-12-13,100.0,103.0
   AAA,2001-12-13,100.0,10.2
   PPP,2001-12-13,100.0,1.3

Note that the ,,, thing is fairly typical of CSV files that started
their life as an Excel spreadsheet.  They represent the empty rows.
The first nonempty row contains the headers, and the first column the
row keys.

   # use csv module in real life to handle legit commas in fields, etc..
   def splitcomma(x):
       if len(x.replace(',','').strip())==0: return [] # empty row
       return  x.split(',')
   
   rows = getrows( file('test.csv'), splitcomma)
   data = rows_to_array( rows, headers=1, rowKeyInd=0)
      
   print data[:,'open']
   print data[:,'price']
   print data[:,'date']
   print data['ADPT',:]
   
I am using Numeric arrays under the hood, and data[:,'open] and
data[:,'price'] are Numeric arrays of Floats.  Thus you can do things
like

    change = data[:,'price'] / data[:,'open']

You can also use any valid slice, as in

  data[1:3,3]  

Hope this helps,
John Hunter

# csvhelpers.py
# Requires Numeric: http://pfdubois.com/numpy/ and python2.2
from __future__ import generators
from Numeric import array, Int, Float 

def iterable(obj):
   try: iter(obj)
   except: return 0
   return 1

def enumerate(seq):
     for i in range(len(seq)):
         yield i, seq[i]

def is_string_like(obj):
   try: obj + ''
   except (TypeError, ValueError): return 0
   return 1

class rows_to_array:
    def __init__(self, rows, headers, rowKeyInd=None):
        """
        rows is a generator that produces the rows of the flatfile,
        optionally including the header row.  See getrows.

        If headers is iterable, then it is a list containing the
        headers.  otherwise use the first row for the headers.
        headers must be unique

        rowKeyInd, if not None, is the column index of the row key so
        that rows can be identified by key
        """

        if not iterable(headers):
            headers = [ h.strip() for h in rows.next()]

        # make dict from header to col index
        self.headerd = {}
        for i,h in enumerate(headers):
            key = h.strip()
            if self.headerd.has_key(key):
                raise RuntimeError, 'Headers must be unique.  ' + \
                      'Found duplicate: ' +  key
            self.headerd[key] = i

        data = [row for row in rows]                

        # use the first row to determine types; this should be improved
        self.types = []
        for val in data[0]:
            if isinstance(val, int):
                self.types.append(Int)
            elif isinstance(val, float):
                self.types.append(Float)
            else:
                self.types.append('O')

        
        if rowKeyInd is not None:
            self.rowKeys = {}
            for i,row in enumerate(data):
                self.rowKeys[row[rowKeyInd]] = i
        self.data = array(data, typecode='O')
        
    def __getitem__(self, key):

        try:
            rowKey, colKey = key
        except TypeError:
            # row index only
            if is_string_like(key):
                rowSlice = self.rowKeys[key]
            else:
                rowSlice = key
            return self.data[rowSlice]
                

        type = None
        if is_string_like(rowKey):
            rowSlice = self.rowKeys[rowKey]
        else:
            rowSlice = rowKey
        if is_string_like(colKey):
            colSlice = self.headerd[colKey]
            type = self.types[colSlice]
        else:
            colSlice = colKey

        ret = self.data[rowSlice, colSlice]

        if type is not None:  return ret.astype(type)
        else: return ret
            
    def __str__(self):
        s = str(self.headerd.keys())  + '\n'
        s += str(self.data)
        return s


def try_to_num(val):
    try: return int(val)
    except ValueError:
        try: return float(val)
        except ValueError:
            return val

def getrows(fh, parseline, comment=None):
    """
    return the rows of the data in file object fh, converting to int
    or float if possible

    parseline returns the row as a list, ie, splits ths row.
    An empty row should be a list of length 0

    if comment is not None, ignore lines starting with comment symbol
    """
    while 1:
        line = fh.readline()
        if comment is not None and line.startswith(comment):
            continue
        if len(line)==0: return 
        if len(line.strip())==0: continue
        vals = parseline(line)
        if len(vals):
            maxLen = max([len(entry) for entry in vals])
            if maxLen==0: continue
            yield [ try_to_num(val) for val in vals]




From gmuller at worldonline.nl  Sat Jul 12 15:22:40 2003
From: gmuller at worldonline.nl (GerritM)
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 21:22:40 +0200
Subject: Small Python, Java comparison
References: <mailman.1057953857.30422.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bepn5k$rhf$1@reader1.tiscali.nl>

"Dave Brueck" <dave at pythonapocrypha.com> schreef in bericht
news:mailman.1057953857.30422.python-list at python.org...
<...snip...> Java:
>From the start of the design to the end of the implementation and initial
round of bug fixing took 3 weeks. An additional 2-3 weeks were spent
optimizing the code and fixing more bugs. The source code had 4700 lines in
9
files. When running, it would process an average of 1050 records per second
(where process = time to parse the file, do calculations, and insert them
into the database).
<...snip...> Python:
Because I wasn't working on this full-time, the development was spread out
over the course of two weeks (10 working days) at an average of just over 2
hours per day (for a total of not quite 3 full days of work). The source
code
was less than 700 lines in 4 files. Most surprising to me was that it
processes an average of 1200 records per second! I had assumed that after I
got it working I'd need to spend time optimizing things to make up for Java
having a JIT compiler to speed things up, but for now I won't bother.

Both versions could be improved by splitting the log parsing/summarizing and
database work into two separate threads (watching the processes I see
periods
of high CPU usage followed by near-idle time while the database churns
away).
Currently the Java version averages 47% CPU utilization and the Python
version averages 51%.
<...snip...>

I recently wrote a short article about bloating of software:
"Exploration of the bloating of software"
www.extra.research.philips.com/natlab/sysarch/BloatingExploredPaper.pdf
(long URL may be broken in two by e-mail reader!).
I explain a number of effects I have observed which are caused by bloating,
one of them degradation of performance. This degradation is repaired which
causes again more bloating....

I think your small sample point is a clear illustration of the fact that
appropriate technology is important. Your gain of a factor of 6-7 in loc
will translate in comparable gains in maintenance, cost and ease of
extending etcetera.

thanks for sharing your experience, regards Gerrit



--
www.extra.research.philips.com/natlab/sysarch/





From stuart at bmsi.com  Mon Jul  7 10:04:20 2003
From: stuart at bmsi.com (Stuart D. Gathman)
Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 10:04:20 -0400
Subject: Auto free Buffer objects in C API?
References: <pan.2003.07.03.20.20.31.884888.29833@bmsi.com> <qnkadbvrrpg.fsf@arbutus.physics.mcmaster.ca>
Message-ID: <pan.2003.07.07.14.04.19.838895.20736@bmsi.com>

On Thu, 03 Jul 2003 21:44:27 -0400, David M. Cooke wrote:

> This is a bit ugly, as it depends on internal details. Another, cleaner,
> method is to define an object which obeys the buffer protocol, and
> handles destruction like you want. (This is annoying, as you'll end up
> copying all the code in bufferobject.c).
 
So annoying, in fact, that I will continue to make extra copies of the
buffer until such time as:

  a) Python gets a PyBuffer_FromCObject(PyObject *,int len) method.

  b) Profiling reveals the extra copies to be a major bottle neck.  The
extra memory allocation is not a problem because the library spends most
of its time moving the data between two buffers while processing it.

BTW, the application is wrapping DSpam for Python.  You can download the
dspam module from:

   http://bmsi.com/python/milter.html



From jack at performancedrivers.com  Sat Jul 12 05:19:05 2003
From: jack at performancedrivers.com (Jack Diederich)
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 05:19:05 -0400
Subject: Python Mystery Theatre -- Episode 1:  Exceptions
In-Reply-To: <UiOPa.3259$Y92.1224@nwrdny01.gnilink.net>; from vze4rx4y@verizon.net on Sat, Jul 12, 2003 at 06:56:52AM +0000
References: <UiOPa.3259$Y92.1224@nwrdny01.gnilink.net>
Message-ID: <20030712051904.D3955@localhost.localdomain>

On Sat, Jul 12, 2003 at 06:56:52AM +0000, Raymond Hettinger wrote:

Since you included the answers I was really unsuprised by what happened,
but maybe I'm wrong as to the why (no other posts, docs, or searching read
for my explanations).

> ACT I ---------------------------------------
> >>> s = list('abc')
> >>> try:
> ...     result = s['a']
> ... except IndexError, TypeError:
> ...     print 'Not found'
> ...
> 
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<pyshell#11>", line 2, in -toplevel-
>     result = s['a']
> TypeError: list indices must be integers

A TypeError was thrown, but writing this as
except (IndexError,), type_error:
explains why it wasn't caught.

> ACT II --------------------------------------------
> >>> class MyMistake(Exception):
> ...     pass
> 
> >>> try:
> ...     raise MyMistake, 'try, try again'
> ... except MyMistake, msg:
> ...     print type(msg)
> ...
> 
> <type 'instance'>

type() of most any (new style?) object will print this

> ACT III --------------------------------------------
> >>> class Prohibited(Exception):
> ...     def __init__(self):
> ...         print 'This class of should never get initialized'
> ...
> >>> raise Prohibited()
> This class of should never get initialized
> 
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<pyshell#40>", line 1, in -toplevel-
>     raise Prohibited()
> Prohibited: <unprintable instance object>
> >>> raise Prohibited
> This class of should never get initialized
> 
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<pyshell#41>", line 1, in -toplevel-
>     raise Prohibited
> Prohibited: <unprintable instance object>

This one is new to me, FWIW I write two kinds of exceptions,
one that is just defined as MyGuy(Excption):pass and another
where I define both __init__ and __repr__ to print what I want.

> ACT IV -----------------------------------------------
> >>> module = 'Root'
> >>> try:
> ...     raise module + 'Error'
> ... except 'LeafError':
> ...     print 'Need leaves'
> ... except 'RootError':
> ...     print 'Need soil'
> ... except:
> ...     print 'Not sure what is needed'
> ...
> 
> Not sure what is needed

There is a reason string exceptions are deprecated ;)
the string 'RootError' is not a subclass of the string 'RootError'
and thus won't be caught.

> 
> ACT V -----------------------------------------------
> >>> try:
> ...     raise KeyError('Cannot find key')
> ... except LookupError, msg:
> ...     print 'Lookup:', msg
> ... except OverflowError, msg:
> ...     print 'Overflow:', msg
> ... except KeyError, msg:
> ...     print 'Key:', msg
> 
> 
> Lookup: 'Cannot find key'
> 

LookupError is the parent of KeyError and IndexError.  I generally
catch the more specific list/dict exceptions depending on what I'm
trying to access.


The fact that I'm very certain about my answers increases the likelyhood
that I'm in fact wrong ;)

-jack

[I orignally had a long thing about the weird exceptions thrown by mmap here,
but decided A: no one cared, B: a patch would be better than bitching.  But
really, how can a method with no arguments raise a ValueError?]




From griebel at konzept-is.de  Mon Jul 21 11:00:43 2003
From: griebel at konzept-is.de (Dr. Peer Griebel)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 17:00:43 +0200
Subject: Stopping a loop with user input in curses
In-Reply-To: <pan.2003.07.21.04.36.20.827100@antispam.com>
References: <pan.2003.07.19.21.26.34.776055@antispam.com> <20030720135329.18124.00000260@mb-m15.aol.com> <pan.2003.07.21.04.36.20.827100@antispam.com>
Message-ID: <3F1C001B.1050306@konzept-is.de>

Alex wrote:
> Hello Ray,
> 
> Nope. That didn't do it. I got a properly drawn curses box
> with nothing inside ... until I hit the 'q' key. Then the clock 
> popped up and the program quit.
> 
> I have a theory on curses. I could be totally wrong here (and it
> would be great if I was, actually).
> 
> Curses cannot multi-task.
> 
> It can't redraw a clock every second and check for a particular
> keystroke at the same time -- there is only one cursor after all.
> 
> So I guess I'll forgoe the funky clock in my curses app. However,
> if you can completely flush this theory down the toilet, it would
> be greatly appreciated... :) It would make my life easier in other
> aspects of the program I'm trying to write.
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Alex
> 
 >

Try the appended program. You are right, curses does not multi-task. You 
even did not create some task...
But you don't need to have separate tasks. All you have to do is to 
check if keypresses are availabe. And only then you should call getch() 
since it will block until keystrokes are available.
See (to understand you probably have to read documentation aboute select()):


# Import curses module

import curses, time
stdscr = curses.initscr()
from select import select

def theClock():

     # Define global colour scheme
     curses.init_pair(1, curses.COLOR_WHITE, curses.COLOR_BLUE)

     # Get the screen size
     max_y, max_x = stdscr.getmaxyx()

     # Calculate the clock position relative to the screen size
     clock_x = max_x - 28

     # Draw the clock
     clockWindow = curses.newwin(3, 26, 1, clock_x)
     clockWindow.bkgd(' ', curses.color_pair(1))
     clockWindow.box()
     clockWindow.refresh()

     # If 'q' is pressed, exit
     finished = 0
     while not finished:    # finished = 0 until the 'q' key is pressed
         if select([0], [], [], 1)[0]:
             c = stdscr.getch()
             if c == ord('q'):
                 curses.beep()
                 finished = 1
                 break

         t = time.asctime()
         clockWindow.addstr(1, 1, t)
         clockWindow.refresh()


def main(stdscr):

     # Bring up the clock function

     theClock()

if __name__ == '__main__':
     curses.wrapper(main)





From m at moshez.org  Mon Jul 14 07:41:44 2003
From: m at moshez.org (Moshe Zadka)
Date: 14 Jul 2003 11:41:44 -0000
Subject: Identity inconsistency and unification of types and classes
In-Reply-To: <7h3isq5nz5l.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>
References: <7h3isq5nz5l.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>, <6f03c4a5.0306301943.d822a6d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20030714114144.9423.qmail@green.zadka.com>

rimbalaya at yahoo.com (Rim) writes:
 
> With the great unification of types and classes, what will happen to the
> following identity inconsistency?
> 
> >>> class myint(int): pass
> ... 
> >>> a=int(1); b=int(1)
> >>> a is b
> 1
> >>> a=myint(1); b=myint(1)
> >>> a is b 
> 0

On Mon, 14 Jul 2003, Michael Hudson <mwh at python.net> wrote:

> Nothing, as is.  You can always dick about in myint.__new__ if you
> really want to manage that, but as others keep saying, you shouldn't
> worry about it too much.

Of course, the inconsistency has always been present:

>>> int(1) is int(1)
1
>>> int(5000) is int(2500*2)
0

Not so much with the consistency, huh?
Here's the deal: if a,b are immutable builtin objects, and a==b, it is
undefined if "a is b" is true. Do not rely on it. Assume patch releases
of Python will change it to be randomly true or false. Assume flags
to Python's compilation will randomly change it to true or false. Assume
the fluttering of the wings of a butterfly in Tibet will create a storm...
err, sorry, got carried away there.

Exercise: Determine for yourself where exactly I got carried away. Discuss.
-- 
Moshe Zadka -- http://moshez.org/
Buffy: I don't like you hanging out with someone that... short.
Riley: Yeah, a lot of young people nowadays are experimenting with shortness.
Agile Programming Language -- http://www.python.org/




From duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk  Tue Jul 15 05:17:42 2003
From: duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk (Duncan Booth)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 09:17:42 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: A few beginning questions
References: <3f129a8a$1@mail.hmgcc.gov.uk> <2259b0e2.0307140930.4b3c43a5@posting.google.com> <ptkdj863.fsf@python.net> <bf0anc$9gch1$1@ID-141451.news.uni-berlin.de> <3f13bd77$1@mail.hmgcc.gov.uk>
Message-ID: <Xns93B968108D2DCduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

"richardc" <richardc at hmgcc.gov.uk> wrote in
news:3f13bd77$1 at mail.hmgcc.gov.uk: 

> 1. How do tyou do enum's in python, infact dose anybody know of a C++
> -> Python crossreference doc out there ?

The only way to do enums in Python is to define a bunch of constants. 
Either put them in a module, or alternatively define them as class 
attributes. However, you may find there is less call for enums in Python 
than in C++, for example in C++ you might use enums to tokenise short 
strings, but in Python you would just use the strings to represent 
themselves.

e.g. You could use any of these:

  UP, DOWN, LEFT, RIGHT = range(4)
  move(UP)

or:

  class DIRECTION:
      UP, DOWN, LEFT, RIGHT = range(4)

  move(DIRECTION.UP)

or:

  move('up')


> 3. How do I reverse iterate through a loop ... is there an easier way
> than something like the following
>     l = ['some', 'text', 'in', 'a', 'list' ]
>     for i in range( 0, len( l ) ):
>         do something to l[ i ]

The usual way is simply to reverse the list before iterating over it.

     l = ['some', 'text', 'in', 'a', 'list' ]
     l_reversed = l.reverse()
     for item in l_reversed:
         do something to item

> 
> 4. Is there an easy way to reverse read a file ?  I mean like a
> 'getline' that works by reading backwards through the file.  Im
> guessing getting single characters and moving the file pointer back is
> going to be slow in python. Its not actally that important... just
> wondering 
> 
If the file isn't too large you can call the readlines() method and simply 
reverse the result as above. You may find this incovenient for very large 
files though. I can't think of many cases where I would want to read a 
whole file in reverse, if all you want is the last few lines of a massive 
file then just seek near the end before reading the remainder and reverse 
the resulting list of lines. If you really do need all of the file in 
reverse, then you could write a generator to read it backwards in fixed 
size chunks and split each chunk into lines.


-- 
Duncan Booth                                             duncan at rcp.co.uk
int month(char *p){return(124864/((p[0]+p[1]-p[2]&0x1f)+1)%12)["\5\x8\3"
"\6\7\xb\1\x9\xa\2\0\4"];} // Who said my code was obscure?



From pinard at iro.umontreal.ca  Mon Jul 21 22:15:22 2003
From: pinard at iro.umontreal.ca (=?iso-8859-1?q?Fran=E7ois_Pinard?=)
Date: 21 Jul 2003 22:15:22 -0400
Subject: Search for a string in binary files
In-Reply-To: <bfhldv$lb$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
References: <bfhldv$lb$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <oqfzkzb939.fsf@titan.progiciels-bpi.ca>

[hokieghal99]

> How could I use python to search for a string in binary files?  From the
> command line, I would do something like this on a Linux machine to find
> this string:

> grep -a "Microsoft Excel" *.xls

> How can I do this in Python?

Quite easily.  To get you started, here is an untested draft, I leave it to
you to try and debug. :-)

import glob
for name in glob.glob('*.xls'):
    if file(name, 'rb').read().find('Microsoft Excel') >= 0:
        print "Found in", name

-- 
Fran?ois Pinard   http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/~pinard




From clifford.wells at comcast.net  Sat Jul 12 19:41:40 2003
From: clifford.wells at comcast.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: 12 Jul 2003 16:41:40 -0700
Subject: new in town
In-Reply-To: <mX_Pa.420985$ro6.10136219@news2.calgary.shaw.ca>
References: <AeVPa.445271$Vi5.11496890@news1.calgary.shaw.ca>
	 <mailman.1058024839.27499.python-list@python.org>
	 <xBYPa.418026$3C2.11372267@news3.calgary.shaw.ca>
	 <jkZPa.75780$ZC.9188@news.easynews.com>
	 <mX_Pa.420985$ro6.10136219@news2.calgary.shaw.ca>
Message-ID: <1058053300.2220.51.camel@devilbox.homelinux.net>

On Sat, 2003-07-12 at 14:19, Elaine Jackson wrote:
> That's okay, because I don't want my hand held. What I'd like is a reasonable
> assurance that, if I pick up this tool, I'll be able to accomplish what I have
> in mind. 

That is the basic problem: you haven't told anyone what you have in
mind.  You might think you were being specific, but you weren't. 
I'm *guessing* you are asking if Python can be compiled in the same
sense that C can.  That answer is no.  If you are asking whether
standalone executables can be made, the answer is yes.  If you are
asking whether Python is fast enough for your application, the answer is
maybe (or most likely).

> If not then, no offence, but I intend picking up a different tool.

As long as it isn't a bloody icepick, I don't think anyone would object
to your use of any tool you please.


Regards,
Cliff

-- 
Take a hollow point revolver, right down the rapids of your heart
                                                           -Coil





From Mike at kordik.net  Fri Jul  4 21:25:00 2003
From: Mike at kordik.net (Mike)
Date: Sat, 05 Jul 2003 01:25:00 GMT
Subject: RTS/CTS and DTR/DTS control
References: <pan.2003.07.04.19.37.02.310028@kordik.net> <pan.2003.07.04.23.44.30.894302@kordik.net> <3F060F8D.94E47DCD@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2003.07.05.02.34.17.509445@kordik.net>

On Fri, 04 Jul 2003 19:36:45 -0400, Peter Hansen wrote:

> Mike wrote:
>> > Is there a library in Python that will give me control over the
>> > handshaking lines directly?

I actually want to control my X10 firecracker device. I have done it in
Java (on Windows) already but now I want to do it in Python on Linux. You
control the device by wiggling the control lines with certain patterns. 

I am looking at the search page you sent to me.

Thanks,
Mike


>> I am running Linux, Python 2.2.2. It would be nice (not mandatory) to
>> be cross platform though.
> 
> You call them handshaking lines, so one might infer you want to use them
> as such while doing serial communications.  Are you in fact actually
> planning to control them as discrete inputs and outputs, for some kind
> of control application? (If not, I'm curious why you want to control
> them directly.)
> 
> There is Chris Liechti's library, which you can find with
> http://www.google.com/search?q=python+serial+port but I'm not sure it
> supports direct control of the I/Os...  if it doesn't you should be able
> to get direct control of those lines under Linux using appropriate
> fcntl.ioctl() calls, I would think, though I haven't done it myself.
> 
> -Peter



From mmoum at woh.rr.com  Wed Jul 30 22:10:29 2003
From: mmoum at woh.rr.com (Mike M)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 02:10:29 GMT
Subject: Python2.3 and MySQLdb on Windows
Message-ID: <pU_Va.38100$ib2.10551507@twister.neo.rr.com>

Python2.3 and MySQLdb don't seem to work together on Windows.  If I
understand the error message correctly, the problem seems to be that the
_mysql binary expects version 2.2 of the Python dll.  Does anyone know of a
fix for this, or when a Windows version that works with 2.3 will be
available?

Thanks,
Mike
--
the Moum's (Mike, Dede, Suzanne, Jeff, Kristen)
Tipp City, Ohio, USA
e-mail: mmoum at woh.rr.com



---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.500 / Virus Database: 298 - Release Date: 7/10/2003





From jarausch at skynet.be  Wed Jul 16 10:49:51 2003
From: jarausch at skynet.be (Helmut Jarausch)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 16:49:51 +0200
Subject: docs  html-2.3.0.tar.bz2  - is there anything yet?
Message-ID: <3f156610$0$300$ba620e4c@reader1.news.skynet.be>

Hi,
I am running Python's CVS version and I would like to install
the 2.3 version of the html documentation (as requested by Idle, e.g.)
Is there already such a file or can it be built from XML? sources 
contained in the distribution? At least, I haven't found a configure
option.

Thanks for a pointer,

Helmut Jarausch

Lehrstuhl fuer Numerische Mathematik
RWTH - Aachen University
D 52056 Aachen, Germany




From llafba at gmx.net  Wed Jul  2 10:10:29 2003
From: llafba at gmx.net (Tom)
Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 16:10:29 +0200
Subject: undo tab
Message-ID: <3F02E7D5.4060401@gmx.net>

Hi,

as we all know we need tabs if we use for, if ... commands. Sometimes I 
find an easier way to do something and I can get rid of one or more for, 
if ... loops. Unfortunately I couldn't find a convenient way to get rid 
of the now unnecessary tabs. I am looking for something as convenient as 
inserting tabs (mark everything and push the tab key). I tried shift+tab 
and all other possible variations with alt/shift/ctrl. :-)

Thanks for your help.
Tom




From garabik-news-2002-02 at kassiopeia.juls.savba.sk  Tue Jul  1 10:20:21 2003
From: garabik-news-2002-02 at kassiopeia.juls.savba.sk (Radovan Garabik)
Date: 1 Jul 2003 14:20:21 GMT
Subject: how to register private python codecs?
Message-ID: <bds5b5$106o43$1@ID-89407.news.dfncis.de>

I am developing and application that makesheavy use of (my own)
codecs not distributed with python (i.e. unicode(text, 'kamenicky'))
I put the codec into file kamenicky.py, placed the file into 
/usr/lib/python/encodings,
but now I want to distribute my application, and I assume that
users won't always have the possibility of copying files into
/usr/lib/python/encodings.
Is there a (simple) way how to register this encoding so that the
file "kamenicky.py" can be in (let's say) current directory?

TIA

-- 
 -----------------------------------------------------------
| Radovan Garab?k http://melkor.dnp.fmph.uniba.sk/~garabik/ |
| __..--^^^--..__    garabik @ kassiopeia.juls.savba.sk     |
 -----------------------------------------------------------
Antivirus alert: file .signature infected by signature virus.
Hi! I'm a signature virus! Copy me into your signature file to help me spread!



From antonxx at gmx.de  Wed Jul 30 05:26:19 2003
From: antonxx at gmx.de (stephan)
Date: 30 Jul 2003 02:26:19 -0700
Subject: pythonwin and german chars, does anybody use pythonwin in non-us
Message-ID: <35b78d97.0307300126.1d99cd2c@posting.google.com>

Hi,

I have python 2.2.3 + pythonwin 156 on win2k.

The problem is that german chars like ??????? are not handled correctly.
Just create a test.py file with the content ??????? and edit it
with pythonwin.
In the editor you will see only ???? .

I had the problem in the past, wrote it to mark and he fixed it.
The last pythonwin version which works is 148 ! 
The bug arised again with 150.

The versions 150,152,154 and 156 are all the same: they don't work.

I wrote it to Mark Hammond but I never got a reply, so it seems
he has no, or no more interest or no time or whatever to fix it.

So if there is somebody who use pythonwin in germany,france..
... do you know a workaround??
(or another similar IDE??)

I ask because I really like pythonwin, it's small fast and comfortable :-)

Thanks

 stephan



From keating at acm.org  Mon Jul 14 03:20:30 2003
From: keating at acm.org (Paul Keating)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 08:20:30 +0100
Subject: PyVariant anyone
Message-ID: <3f125990$1_2@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com>

I need to call a C++ DLL from Python, for which I'm planning to use
boost.python. But the DLL has been written to a VBA interface, and this
means it expects to get variable length arrays as Windows Variants instead
of lists or tuples.

Anyone know how to construct a convincing Windows Variant in Python?





From hwlgw at hotmail.com  Tue Jul  1 05:49:54 2003
From: hwlgw at hotmail.com (Will Stuyvesant)
Date: 1 Jul 2003 02:49:54 -0700
Subject: Good code patterns in Python
Message-ID: <cb035744.0307010149.399df2eb@posting.google.com>

If you know that your source code is going to be used
later by others, then I feel that code with the pattern:

    if some_condition:
        some_name = some_value
    else:
        some_name = other_value

is often a mistake.  Much better, safer, would be:

    some_name = some_value
    if not some_condition:
        some_name = other_value

Why?  

Because those people reusing your code might decide to
change or adapt the "if" part of the first example.  Or
the "else" part for that matter.  And then they could end
up with "some_name" being undefined, crashing other code
maybe 1000's of lines away.  This could happen for example
because they use exceptions in the "if" part that jump out
of it, etc.

There is the small overhead of assigning something twice
to some_name in the safer example, so if performance is
*that* important then the first example is better, but I
feel there should be comments with warnings around it:
**CREATING A NEW OBJECT REFERENCE HERE!** Hmm, now that
makes code ugly :-)

What are your thoughts about this?  I am interested in
current large scale software development practice, and
guidelines that are used there, especially for dynamically
typed languages like Python.

There must be a lot of advisable code design patterns (I
can't find a good name in English) like this for use in
software development with many programmers.  Perhaps a
collection with good documentation would be interesting?
Or a tool like pychecker that flags "bad" patterns?


-- 
People who miss goto now use exceptions



From max at alcyone.com  Thu Jul  3 13:55:06 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 10:55:06 -0700
Subject: zip() or what?
References: <3F03AFA8.7030905@ihug.co.nz> <3F03B4DB.545DC6B5@alcyone.com> <3F0401C4.1010306@ihug.co.nz>
Message-ID: <3F046DFA.D15034F7@alcyone.com>

Ray Tomes wrote:

> I can understand the 2nd one, but I don't get the meaning of the * in
> the
> first. Is this like the opposite of putting [] around something or
> what?
> Under what circumstances can an * be used like this, and what is it
> called? - I don't know how to look for it in the docs :-)

f(x) calls the function f with the single argument x.  f(*x) calls f
with the arguments x, which is expected to be a sequence.  The * syntax
comes from defining functions, where a formal argument preceded by *
means, "All the rest of the arguments as a tuple."  So:

>>> def f(*x): print x
... 
>>> s = [1, 2, 3]
>>> f(s)
([1, 2, 3],)
>>> f(*s)
(1, 2, 3)

The old way of writing the function call f(*x) was apply(f, x).

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ War is like love, it always finds a way.
\__/  Bertolt Brecht



From martin at v.loewis.de  Mon Jul 14 01:25:31 2003
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-15?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 14 Jul 2003 07:25:31 +0200
Subject: anything like C++ references?
References: <b8c3hvsesjoumiboobml3nsnajtha99mp1@4ax.com> <mailman.1058129901.28248.python-list@python.org> <plk3hv0s1m2egf4s34jo6vjedk0q8r2mu9@4ax.com> <m365m6ul5c.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <mailman.1058145500.19181.python-list@python.org> <e464hvcq48q3240ecfcs6jqhqf616q7v1a@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <m3k7alr86s.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Stephen Horne <intentionally at blank.co.uk> writes:

> >>>> a = ref(1)
> >>>> b = a
[...]
> >>>> a = 5
> >>>> b
> >5
[...]
> Well, during the 'debate', that's the basic idea that involved -
> except that I'd use explicit pointer-dereferencing syntax.

This is a very bad idea. You want to create a reference to the object
1? Then I assume that assigning to "a" would *change* the value of 1?
But 1 is an immutable object, it cannot change!

> Imagine, for instance, changing all assignments and other 'copying' to
> use a copy-on-write system. 

That assumes that there is the notion of copying values in the first
place. Objects, in general, don't support copying - and assignment has
nothing to do with copying.

> >>> a = &5
> >>> b = newcopyof a        #  could be "b = &(*a)" in principle
> >>> *b is *a
> False

Again, objects don't support copying. For immutable objects (like
numbers), copying is also a pointless operation: If there where a
standard .copy method on objects, numbers would return themselves.

There is no way, in the language, to express that you want different
copies of the value 5. This is completely different from the notion of
values in C or C++, where each occurrence of the literal 5 creates a
new value whose state is 5.

Regards,
Martin



From ss3canon at earthlink.net  Thu Jul  3 01:18:29 2003
From: ss3canon at earthlink.net (Mike)
Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 05:18:29 GMT
Subject: VERY FUN FREE ADDICTIVE RPG  9168
References: <3f039ec5$0$966$cc9e4d1f@news.dial.pipex.com>
Message-ID: <F0PMa.76079$Io.7116654@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>

I'm sure its a great game but it keeps tellin me I put the security code in
wrong. But I know its right, thus I can't play.





From jeremiah at facility9.com  Sun Jul 20 20:03:06 2003
From: jeremiah at facility9.com (Jeremiah McElroy)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 00:03:06 GMT
Subject: .NET Web Services
Message-ID: <_4GSa.11522$Vx2.5474184@newssvr28.news.prodigy.com>

I am attempting to connect from my local machine to a .NET web service I
found on Xmethods.net which provides dictionary lookups.  I am running
windows XP with Python 2.2.3 and win32all-152.  I'm using ZSI 1.2.

When I attempt to contact the web serivce, I see the following stack trace:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File
"C:\Python22\lib\site-packages\Pythonwin\pywin\framework\scriptutils.py",
line 307, in RunScript
    debugger.run(codeObject, __main__.__dict__, start_stepping=0)
  File "C:\Python22\lib\site-packages\Pythonwin\pywin\debugger\__init__.py",
line 60, in run
    _GetCurrentDebugger().run(cmd, globals,locals, start_stepping)
  File "C:\Python22\lib\site-packages\Pythonwin\pywin\debugger\debugger.py",
line 591, in run
    exec cmd in globals, locals
  File "C:\Documents and Settings\mcelroyj.FACILITY9.000\Desktop\lookup.py",
line 39, in ?
    result_list = b.Send( u, 'GetEEMeaning', DictRequest(word) )
  File "C:\Python22\Lib\site-packages\ZSI\client.py", line 175, in Send
    self.h.connect()
  File "C:\Python22\lib\httplib.py", line 516, in connect
    socket.SOCK_STREAM):
gaierror: (7, 'getaddrinfo failed')

The source follows.  I'm fairly new to using web services in Python, and I
have only found very limited information on using them, so I'm extrapolating
what I can from the docs.

Thanks,

Jeremiah

SOURCE:

#!/usr/bin/env python

import sys
import xml
from ZSI import TC
from ZSI.client import Binding

FULL_DICT_NS = "http://www.xceer.com/trans/dic2.asmx?WSDL"

u = '/trans/dic2.asmx?WSDL'
h = 'http://www.xceer.com'
n = 'http://tempuri.org/'
SOAPMethod = 'GetEEMeaning'
SoapAction = n + SOAPMethod
dict = {
    'xmlns:xsi' : 'http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance',
    'xmlns:xsd' : 'http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema',
    'xmlns:soap': 'http://schemas.xmlsoap.org/soap/envelope/'
    }
b = Binding( url=u, host=h, port=80, ns=n, nsdict=dict,
soapaction=SOAPMethod )

try:
    word = sys.argv[1]
except IndexError:
    print 'No word given, looking up "curmudgeon"'
    word = 'curmudgeon'

class DictRequest:
    def __init__( self, word ):
        self.englishWord = word

DictRequest.typecode = TC.Struct(DictRequest,
                                 [TC.String('englishWord')],
                                 'GetEEMeaning',
                                 inline=1)

try:
    result_list = b.Send( u, 'GetEEMeaning', DictRequest(word) )

    print "result_list: ", result_list
except:
    raise
    print 'reply     : ', b.reply_code
    print 'reply_msg : ', b.reply_msg
    print 'headers   : ', b.reply_headers
    print 'data      : ', b.data






From jjl at pobox.com  Sun Jul 27 20:52:40 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 28 Jul 2003 01:52:40 +0100
Subject: emacs python-mode questions: C-c C-c and broken docstring fill
References: <87ptjwre0x.fsf@pobox.com> <mailman.1059320981.10303.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87brvfa2w7.fsf@pobox.com>

Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com> writes:

[...]
>     John> do that, but the new version also breaks filling text in
>     John> docstrings (under particular circumstances which I haven't figured
>     John> out, but which occurs very frequently).  I get something like:
>     John> "The parameter start is not the beginning of a python string".
>     John> Where does the latest python-mode live, and is this fill bug with
>     John> docstrings fixed?
> 
> Can you file a bug report with a small failing example?  Assign it to me
> (montanaro).

OK, will try to do tomorrow.


John



From claird at lairds.com  Wed Jul  2 15:20:33 2003
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 19:20:33 -0000
Subject: When is unit-testing bad? [was: Re: does lack of type...]
References: <3EEE1210.3004AB45@engcorp.com> <87of0pno5s.fsf@titan.staselog.com> <vg40uajdqo3ac4@corp.supernews.com> <bdunoh$1pms$1@biggoron.nerim.net>
Message-ID: <vg6c41ckkbopb3@corp.supernews.com>

In article <bdunoh$1pms$1 at biggoron.nerim.net>,
Aur?lien G?ron <ageron at HOHOHOHOvideotron.ca> wrote:
>> In article <87of0pno5s.fsf at titan.staselog.com>,
>> Edvard Majakari  <edvard+web at majakari.net> wrote:
>> >
>> >I'm rather interested in (and fond of) unit testing as well as TDD, so I
>> >though to share my opinions. I once discussed TDD with my friend in here,
>> >and the common agreement seemed to be that TDD is not a silver bullet -
>> >often there are types of computational modules that are very hard to unit
>> >test, eg. think of graphical user interfaces or complex systems, where
>> >forking or threading is concerned.
>> .
>> .
>> .
>> While we're all being rational enough to look at bundles of
>> costs and benefits, this observation hints at a different
>> insight:  that it's possible to *design* for testability.
>>
>> Yes, GUIs and forking and threading are hard to test.  SO
>> DON'T DO THEM.  Or, as I prefer, adopt models of GUI and
>> concurrency development that lend themselves to testing.
>>
>> At this point, I should explain what I mean by that.  I
>> haven't yet figured out how to say it in less than a book;
>> therefore, all I can contribute for today are the slogans
>> above.
>>
>> If you're in a situation where unit-testing is bad, you're
>> probably in a bad situation.  Change your situation.
			.
			.
			.
>I think I sort of understand what you mean, Cameron, but IMHO it looks to me
>that you are trying to fit everything into one vision ("Everything looks
>like a nail when you have a hammer").
>
>There are things that are hard to unit test (I'm talking about automated
>unit tests here) and which you just can't do without in some projects.  For
>instance, the database!  I worked in a couple of projects with automatic
>unit tests for the DB related components, and having lived through it, I'm
>not sure that it was worth it at all!  Manual unit tests would have made
>much more sense.  The same goes for GUIs.  I'd be interested to know about
>projects where they automate unit tests for GUIs, but I suspect it would be
>just as cumbersome. And live without threads?  A lot of projects would be
>better off not using them, I agree with that, but some projects just can't
>do without them!  Web sites are also horrible to automatically unit test.
>In all those cases, I much prefer having a human being go out and do the
>unit tests manually.
>
>I guess my point is that though you may be right in some specific contexts,
>I don't think you can generalize.  That's IMHO of course.
>
>I may not have understood exactly what you meant, though.  You may want to
>send me a copy of your book?  ;-)
>
>Aur?lien
>
>

David Bolen answers extremely well in his follow-up.

I think that, more than trying to hammer everything, I'm
saying that, if hammering works for you, then make a point
of building things with nails.

As everyone else, I'm trying to get at "the big picture".
Some organizations accept that
A.  TDD helps over-all business goals;
B.  The {GUI,concurrency,...} programming we
    do now is incompatible with TDD;
and conclude
C.  we must abandon TDD.
I propose instead
D.  Over-all business goals will be best
    served by a {GUI,concurrency,...} ap-
    proach that facilitates TDD.
-- 

Cameron Laird <Cameron at Lairds.com>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
Personal:  http://phaseit.net/claird/home.html



From belred1 at yahoo.com  Wed Jul 23 19:55:37 2003
From: belred1 at yahoo.com (Bryan)
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 23:55:37 GMT
Subject: ndiff
Message-ID: <ZfFTa.130048$N7.18958@sccrnsc03>

i tried using ndiff and Differ.compare today from the difflib module.  i
have three questions.

1.  both ndiff and Differ.compare return all the lines including lines that
are the same in both files, not just the diffs.  is the convention to take
the output and then filter out lines that contain a space as the first
character to just get the diffs?  it seems strange to me that the output is
not just the deltas and a lot of wasted filtering (especially if the file is
very large) to get the diff you wanted in the first place.  isn't there a
better way?

2.  i also tried passing IS_LINE_JUNK and IS_CHARACTER_JUNK, but there was
no difference in the output even though i changed some whitespace in the
file.   i then wrote my own junk functions and again, there was no
difference in the output even though i returned 1 to filter out some lines.
can someone show an example of using IS_LINE_JUNK and IS_CHARACTER_JUNK
showing different output than when not using it.

3.  is there a simple method that just returns true or false whether two
files are different or not?  i was hoping that ndiff/compare would return an
empty list if there was no difference,  but that's not the case.  i ended up
using a simple: if file1.read() == file2.read(): but there must be a smarter
faster way.

thanks,

bryan





From deets_noospaam at web.de  Tue Jul 29 19:30:13 2003
From: deets_noospaam at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 01:30:13 +0200
Subject: inverse of the zip function
References: <9sBVa.12998$o%2.6289@sccrnsc02> <wdCVa.118$7h6.110@nwrdny03.gnilink.net> <pan.2003.07.29.22.31.46.551258@webone.com.au> <6%CVa.59$cI2.38@nwrdny01.gnilink.net>
Message-ID: <bg7026$fvd$05$1@news.t-online.com>

Raymond Hettinger wrote:

>> >> In other words, the the inverse of the built-in zip function?
>> >
>> > When used with the * operator, zip() is its own inverse:
> There is no special extension to zip().
> It just happens to be one of those functions
> like int.__neg__() that is closely related to
> its own inverse.
> 
> * or apply() serve only to break a list into
> individual arguments.  So, transpose() can
> be defined like this:

I understand why it works as inverse when *<list> creates a argument list of
list element. But don't understand why * works that way in this context.
Does ** do this for maps and keywordargs, too? Hey, this is python - lets
try:
>>> def foo(a=None, b=None):
...   pass
...
>>> foo(a=10, b=20)
>>> foo(**{'a':10, 'b':20})
>>>

Coooool. Where is that documented? Never stumbled across it so far!

Diez



From bbeck at NOSPAM.austin.rr.com  Wed Jul 30 16:31:14 2003
From: bbeck at NOSPAM.austin.rr.com (Brandon Beck)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 20:31:14 GMT
Subject: Dict to "flat" list of (key,value)
References: <pan.2003.07.30.19.26.18.41642@removethis.nerim.net>
Message-ID: <1dmlv-qrq.ln1@isomorphism.org>

Someone will definitely come up with a better solution than this, but
this could work for you at least as a first try

import types
def flatten(d, iterables=(types.ListType, types.TupleType)):
    rv = []
    for k, v in d.items():
        if type(v) in iterables:
            rv += [[k,x] for x in v]
        else:
            rv += [[k,v]]
    return rv

If you want to change the types of things that get iterated over, just
pass in a second parameter of your own.

Hope that helps,
Brandon



"Nicolas Girard" <Nicolas.nospam.Girard at removethis.nerim.net> wrote in
message news:pan.2003.07.30.19.26.18.41642 at removethis.nerim.net...
> Hi,
>
> Forgive me if the answer is trivial, but could you tell me how to
achieve
> the following:
>
> {k1:[v1,v2],k2:v3,...} --> [[k1,v1],[k1,v2],[k2,v3],...]
>
> The subtle point (at least to me) is to "flatten" values that are
lists.
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Nicolas
>
>
>
> ----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet
News==----
> http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
>100,000 Newsgroups
> ---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via
Encryption =---





From danbmil99 at yahoo.com  Sat Jul 19 20:05:28 2003
From: danbmil99 at yahoo.com (dan)
Date: 19 Jul 2003 17:05:28 -0700
Subject: Calling tcl from python and viceversa
References: <453d10b2.0307190828.3c576f15@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <fbf8d8f2.0307191605.268f0b04@posting.google.com>

funny -- first look at the board and it's right on subject.

I'm trying to write an app that does some cool stuff with sound
samples, using tkSnack.  But I'm stuck on a simple question -- how do
I insert some of my own code into the tkInter mainloop?  I need the
sequencer to run in the background while the UI is up.

Forgetting about snack for the moment, how do I run _any_
non-event-driven code while my Tk widgets are active? (for instance,
animation in one window while menus are still available).  I can't
find any demos that show this sort of behavior.

All the Tk examples I've seen set up the widgets and run
root.mainloop().  I can't for the life of me figure out what code this
call invokes, but it won't return until a quit command or some such
action is initiated by the user.  TCL docs say that Tk_mainloop calls
tcl_DoOneEvent() in a dead loop until a quit flag is set, or something
like that.

My best guess is that I'm supposed to set up another thread to do my
stuff, and send messages to the Tkinter thread that trigger Tk events,
or something like that.  But the Tkinter docs are so sketchy I can't
really get a handle on how to do it.  Any help or pointers would be
appreciated.

thanks in advance - stumped


cpitaar at yahoo.com.ar (Carlos P.) wrote in message news:<453d10b2.0307190828.3c576f15 at posting.google.com>...
> Hi!
> I want to call tcl from python and python from tcl. The big picture is
> that I?m writing an application GUI with tcl/tk and application logic
> with python, so at least I want to call python events from the tk GUI.
> I have read about _tkinter and tkapp.call although I couldn?t find any
> detailed documentation. And, anyway, that seems to work in one
> direction (python->tcl) but I don?t know how to make it work in the
> other (tcl->python).
> Thank you,
> Carlos



From bokr at oz.net  Wed Jul 16 11:35:31 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 16 Jul 2003 15:35:31 GMT
Subject: String Manipulation
References: <2c6431ab.0307151223.4173c4ee@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bf3rc3$ken$0@216.39.172.122>

On 15 Jul 2003 13:23:09 -0700, lamar_air at hotmail.com (lamar_air) wrote:

>I need a piece of code that takes a string like this string1 =
>"aaa/bbb/ccc/dd" and extracts a string containting the character after
>the last "/"
>
>So for this example the result would be "dd"
>
>like this:
>for i=0; string1.right(i) != '/'; i++
>
>result = string1.mid(i, string1.length())
>
>but in python.

Others have posted the split() solutions.
You could also search backward in Python:

 >>> s = "aaa/bbb/ccc/dd"
 >>> s[s.rfind('/')+1:]
 'dd'
 >>> s='no_slashes'
 >>> s[s.rfind('/')+1:]
 'no_slashes'

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From alan.gauld at btinternet.com  Wed Jul  9 14:36:15 2003
From: alan.gauld at btinternet.com (Alan Gauld)
Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 18:36:15 GMT
Subject: Newbie - No module named stdwin
References: <beh8d4$gnu$1@topaz.icpnet.pl>
Message-ID: <3f0c5faf.172627925@news.blueyonder.co.uk>

On Wed, 9 Jul 2003 16:20:47 +0200, "K" <milyon at wp.pl> wrote:

> inport stdwin
> stdwin.open ('my window')
> 
> and i have ImportError: No module named stdwin

Stdwin is obsolete. For a very brief intro to Tkinter and
wxPython visit my tutorial and look at the GUI topic (in the
"Advanced" section). Then visit one of the more comprehensive
tutorials linked from the Tkinter section of the Python web site.

But if you are still just learning Python you might be better
keeping clear of GUIs till a little later. They are just one 
more complication...

Alan G.
http://www.freenetpages.co.uk/hp/alan.gauld/



From anonymous at coolgroups.com  Tue Jul 22 00:21:46 2003
From: anonymous at coolgroups.com (anonymous at coolgroups.com)
Date: 22 Jul 2003 00:21:46 -0400
Subject: good python book
Message-ID: <3f1cbbda_6@news.athenanews.com>

i'm looking to start learning python.  could someone 
recommend a good beginner's book for me?

thanks.




--------------------------------------------------------------------
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From peter at engcorp.com  Sat Jul 12 05:10:42 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 05:10:42 -0400
Subject: Python - if/else statements
References: <pan.2003.07.11.19.34.16.330762@yahoo.com> <ben6uf$tcr$0@216.39.172.122> <pan.2003.07.11.23.16.08.781512@yahoo.com> <benpvl$9kj$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <3F0FD092.7D452008@engcorp.com>

Bengt Richter wrote:
> 
> It could. It depends. A script or a file (extension may vary, .py, .pyc, etc) that's imported
> is like a big room with a single cork bulletin board. Think of that bulletin board as
> the script's or module's global name space. It's where name tags can be tacked up with names
> associated with objects. You can think of the objects themselves as balloons attached to
> the name tags by strings (the houses have no roofs, so all the balloons occupy space
> someplace high up outside ;-)
> [...]
> When you leave the playhouse, its inside bulletin board is cleared of name tags (and the
> strings detached).  When you enter again, you start with a clean inside board with only
> name tags matching the formal parameter names (if any). If the last string is detached,
> it is grabbed by a balloon collector, who pops it to make sure there is always space in
> the sky for new balloons. Kind of ;-)

Almost correct.  Actually, the balloons are helium-filled and they simply float
off into the sky where, after an undefined period of time, but usually instantly,
they will POP and cease to exist.  ;-)

In Jython, the balloons don't usually POP instantly, but instead float up to the
stratosphere where a garbage collection airplane flies through and explodes as 
many as it can find, from time to time.

Even in C Python, balloons which are tied together (since balloons can actually 
have small bulletin board attached too) will actually float around for a while until
a garbage collection airplane flies through and does its job.  Unfortunately, 
some balloons have their own automated popping feature attached (__del__) which
makes it unsafe for the plane to pop them, so it leaves those alone and it's your
job to untie their strings from each other so they can pop on their own, or 
be popped by the GC airplane on its next pass.

> But every eyelet must have a string leading to some balloon, even if it is the None balloon.

Note also that the None balloon is filled with "super Helium(tm)" as it must stay
aloft even with so many strings attached!  No, wait, the strings are actually
weightless, right?

-Peter

P.S.: Very cute, not to mention accurate, way to describe it, if somewhat involved. :-)



From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sun Jul  6 20:20:00 2003
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 6 Jul 2003 20:20:00 -0400
Subject: Status of Python / Platform-specific support ??
References: <iR1Oa.11255$Hb.198255@news4.e.nsc.no>
Message-ID: <beaebg$drg$1@panix2.panix.com>

In article <iR1Oa.11255$Hb.198255 at news4.e.nsc.no>,
Thomas Weholt <2002 at weholt.org> wrote:
>
>I've been using Python on both Windows 2000 and Linux for some time
>now. On Windows I've used PythonWin as editor, Emacs on Linux. This
>has been working ok so far. Now as Python will be a part of Mac OS X
>Panther will this affect Pythons support for platform-specific modules
>in a big way? I'm not a Mac-expert, but OS X is basically a Unix-clone
>as base with a Apple-GUI on top, right? So most *nix apps will compile
>and run nicely on that platform?  With Python as an integrated part of
>the system, I'd be seriously thinking about changing platform.
>
>Can anyone enlighten me as to what the current status is for Python
>on Mac, as for support, IDEs etc. ? Is Mac shaping up to be the best
>platform for Python development and python lovers in general, or is Mac
>just catching up to Linux?

That's tough to answer.  For starters, Python 2.2 is already part of
10.2, but it's somewhat crippled (no Tkinter, and missing the critical
bugfixes of 2.2.1 and 2.2.2).  Many Unix apps do compile easily, but
I've had trouble with a couple that aren't part of the Fink project (xli
and lrz/lsz).  There are binary installers available for the Mac (see
the download pages on python.org).

I've been using Python on a Mac for more than a year now, because I
decided to get an iBook as my laptop, but my primary system is still a
Linux box, and I'm happier with that.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"Not everything in life has a clue in front of it...."  --JMS



From gh at ghaering.de  Mon Jul 14 11:06:02 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 17:06:02 +0200
Subject: Encoding error
In-Reply-To: <60CC7EB7BC00D511B0C80060083FD8F0951EA7@dunleith.igsb.uiowa.edu>
References: <60CC7EB7BC00D511B0C80060083FD8F0951EA7@dunleith.igsb.uiowa.edu>
Message-ID: <3F12C6DA.1000401@ghaering.de>

Welcome to the Python community,

But please configure your mailer to send plain text only.

Casey Kohrt wrote:
> I get the following error for the list item below.  I know I have to 
> encode it, but am unsure how or where to write that in.  I am new to 
> python and have had good luck thus far.  Any help is greatly 
> apprecieated.  I am not on the list, so a response to me is appreciated.
> 
> UnicodeError: ASCII encoding error: ordinal not in range(128)

The library you're using tries to convert a bytestring you gave it to a 
Unicode string. If your bytestring is plain ASCII (characters 0 to 127), 
this works. Outside the world of 7-bit ASCII it's not clear which code 
means which character, so you'll have to provide the encoding explicitly.

>     eainfo = doc.createElement("eainfo")
>     metadata.appendChild(eainfo)
>     overview = doc.createElement("overview")
>     eainfo.appendChild(overview)
>     eaover = doc.createElement("eaover")

>     text = doc.createTextNode(str(list[83]))

list[83] contains non-ASCII characters. Try creating a Unicode string 
instead and provide an explicit encoding:

text = doc.createTextNode(unicode(list[83], "iso-8859-1"))

I'm just guessing about your encoding, it might be a different one.

Also please next time when asking questions where you got an exception 
also provide at which line in your code the exception occured.

>     eaover.appendChild(text)
>     overview.appendChild(eaover)

Cheers,

-- Gerhard




From gh at ghaering.de  Wed Jul  9 17:42:12 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-2?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 23:42:12 +0200
Subject: format discs.
In-Reply-To: <pan.2003.07.09.14.36.59.870178@net.hr>
References: <pan.2003.07.09.08.22.10.853337.9435@hotmail.com>
	<pan.2003.07.09.12.19.17.544904@net.hr>
	<mailman.1057755674.1585.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2003.07.09.14.36.59.870178@net.hr>
Message-ID: <3F0C8C34.1050503@ghaering.de>

Taka wrote:
> On Wed, 09 Jul 2003 15:00:33 +0200, Gerhard H?ring wrote:
>>Taka wrote:
>>>#!/bin/python
>>>
>>>import os
>>>partition = open ('/dev/hda1', 'w')
>>>
>>>for x in range(os.path.getsize('/dev/hda1'):
>>>	partition.write ('0')
>>>
>>>partition.close()
>> [...]
>>Your approach is hard to beat in inefficiency.
> 
> Yes, but since file partitions are usualy bigger than your physical RAM,
> you cannot do
> 
> import string
> partition.write (string.zfill('0', partition.getsize('/dev/hda10')-1)

Certainly there are good block sizes between 1 and the size of the 
partion, right? In my experience, the optimum is somewhere between 2 kb 
and 8 kb.

If I ever needed to overwrite a partition with zeros on Unix from within 
Python I'd most probably do something like:

import os
os.system("dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/myblockdevice bs=8192")

-- Gerhard




From mis6 at pitt.edu  Wed Jul  9 17:44:38 2003
From: mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato)
Date: 9 Jul 2003 14:44:38 -0700
Subject: A story about Python... sort of
References: <mailman.1057616412.8695.python-list@python.org> <3F0A0655.99823E25@alcyone.com> <87smphp2in.fsf@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <2259b0e2.0307091344.73040406@posting.google.com>

jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee) wrote in message news:<87smphp2in.fsf at pobox.com>...
> [utterly OT, but couldn't resist replying again]
> 
> Erik Max Francis <max at alcyone.com> writes:
> 
> [...]
> > Since it's an interpretation, though, it's just an intuitive way of
> > looking at the situation.  Quantum mechanical interpretations do not
> > modify the theory itself; that is, they neither add nor subtract
> > anything from the theory which is testable in any way.
> 
> I disagree with all of that.  Further discussion taken off-list!
> 
> 
> John

Why do you disagree? I would think Erik is right.
BTW, speaking as a physicist, I would say that the many-worlds 
interpretation is absolutely minoritary in the community: If it 
was wideaspread, I would have studied it ;) 
The only thing I know is that there is no relativistic
extension and this killed any further interest of mine.


              Michele



From skip at pobox.com  Thu Jul 17 15:25:23 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 14:25:23 -0500
Subject: scrollback in macpython
In-Reply-To: <c3835e5f.0307171057.b1fcd96@posting.google.com>
References: <c3835e5f.0307171057.b1fcd96@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <16150.63523.763013.163150@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    Chris> Is there any way of getting scrollback to work in MacPython
    Chris> 2.3b2? At present, when I try and scroll back to re-issue a past
    Chris> command using the up arrow key, I simply get a series of "^[[A"
    Chris> symbols. Very annoying, Any tips most appreciated.

I think Michael Hudson may have just fixed this in CVS today.  If you can
wait a few hours, 2.3rc1 should be out later today.  Please give that a try.

Skip





From logistix at cathoderaymission.net  Thu Jul 31 10:27:07 2003
From: logistix at cathoderaymission.net (logistix at cathoderaymission.net)
Date: 31 Jul 2003 07:27:07 -0700
Subject: Embedded python: dotted (sub) module name
References: <3c91a864.0307301805.7cfea740@posting.google.com> <xj%Va.2846$cI2.2183@nwrdny01.gnilink.net>
Message-ID: <3c91a864.0307310627.3c6122c6@posting.google.com>

Carl Banks <imbosol at aerojockey.com> wrote in message news:<xj%Va.2846$cI2.2183 at nwrdny01.gnilink.net>...
> logistix at cathoderaymission.net wrote:
> > I get the feeling I'm just picking the wrong google search phrase
> > here, because I'm finding nothing.  I'm trying to namespace out some
> > embedded python modules.  This works:
> > 
> >        Py_InitModule("game", py_game_methods);
> > 
> > but this doesn't:
> > 
> >        Py_InitModule("quake.game", py_game_methods);
> > 
> > What am I missing here? Any help would be appreciated.
> 
> 
> A module's package is defined the importer, not by the module itself.
> Move a module file to a different directory, and BAM, it's in a
> different package.
> 
> If your only wish is to make it so that someone can import your
> extension module using "from quake import game", then it is enough to
> just copy the DLL or shared lib into the proper directory.  (Well, you
> also have to remember to put an __init__.py file in the quake
> directory.)

Thanks, but I don't have a physical .pyd since this is an embedded
interpreter.  I'm just calling my 'init_module()' function directly
from C, similar to the way array and other modules are statically
added to the python dll.



From ben at dadsetan.com  Wed Jul  2 17:42:58 2003
From: ben at dadsetan.com (Behrang Dadsetan)
Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 22:42:58 +0100
Subject: Possible fix for Bug 494589 - os.path.expandvars bug
References: <KJsMa.363625$3n5.222564@news2.central.cox.net>        <3F02015F.3000903@dadsetan.com>        <mailman.1057150565.22876.python-list@python.org>        <3F032161.7000108@dadsetan.com> <16131.15806.215814.555138@montanaro.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <3F0351E2.2000904@dadsetan.com>

Skip Montanaro wrote:

>    Behrang> I there a way for me to get a SSH CVS access?
>    Behrang> Or will someone make/submit the patch for me?
>
>Martin v. L?wis is making nightly snapshots of the CVS tree:
>
>    http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-June/036609.html
>
>With that, you could create a "good enough" context diff and submit a patch
>on Sourceforge.
>
>Skip
>
Thanks Skip, already saw that trick.. but I actually first need some 
advice from someone whether I should just fix the Lib/dospath.py and 
Lib/ntpath.py with my version (to fit their actual docstring 
documentation and comments) or whether I should rather patch them to 
become just like Lib/posixpath.py so that they fit the "official" 
documentation 
(http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/module-os.path.html) and act the 
same as the rest of the implementations.

a)If I fix the dospath.py and ntpath.py with my version:
    The developpers reading the docstring/comments from the source code 
will be happy. Possibly update the main Library Reference documentation 
on that point explaining a special behaviour of these two 
implementations. Would have the benefit to theoricaly not break any code 
and instead fixing magicly some...
b)If I copy posixpath.py's implementation over the dospath.py and 
ntpath.py implementations:
    The dos and nt implementations would fit the official documentation 
but I might break some existing code of fellow python developpers
c)If I copy my implementation to all underlying platform implementations
    Could be possible if everyone loves the functionality promised by 
the dospath docstring, I would need to consult some other platform 
specialists to see how to adapt their code and then update the main 
documentation site.

I guess b would be the most reasonable to do since the promises of 
dospath.expandvars docstring never actually delivered what it sayed they 
would and I feel we need a standard for os.path.expandvars behaviour 
with breaking the minimum of existing code.

This need for advice was the other main reason I did not even risk 
myself to a patch. If you (knowing well better the procedures and 
attitudes of python implementors) still believe I would only get advice 
submitting patches, do you think it is alright submitting two/three 
different ones? I actually hoped we could first discuss what we want to 
do. Also the reason why I wrote that I was awaited the BDFL to pronounce 
a decision. What would be the procedure to get him taking a decision on 
this? Do I need someone to bring up the question in python-dev? (my mail 
last week to python-dev got ignored or automaticly classified as spam... 
not sure ;-) )

Ben.




From skip at pobox.com  Sat Jul 26 02:25:45 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 01:25:45 -0500
Subject: where is the awk to python translator program
In-Reply-To: <87smounf2z.fsf@jidanni.org>
References: <87smounf2z.fsf@jidanni.org>
Message-ID: <16162.7913.4933.133368@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    Dan> An old dog can't learn new tricks, so where's the a2py awk to python
    Dan> translator?  Perl has a2p.

Sorry, Python doesn't have such a beast.  There's never been enough demand.

    Dan> E.g. today I wonder how to do '{print $1}', well with a2p I know
    Dan> how to do it in perl, but with python I am supposed to hunker down
    Dan> with the manuals.

Python doesn't have the implicit looping and splitting into fields that awk
has, so you need to loop over the input and split the fields yourself:

    import sys
    for line in sys.stdin:
        print line.split()[0]   # == '{print $1}'

There's also no global field separator variable.  Suppose I wanted to print
the first field in each row of my passwd file.  The split() method, when
called as above with no arguments, will split the string on any runs of
whitespace.  If given a string parameter it will split the string on that
string.  Here's some input and output pasted from an interactive session:

    >>> for line in file("/etc/passwd"):
    ...     print line.split(":")[0]
    ... 
    root
    bin
    daemon
    adm
    lp
    ... and so on ...

Obviously, Python is not as concise as awk for the sorts of things awk is
good at, but then Python is good for a lot more things than awk is. ;-)

Skip




From essai1 at mci.local  Mon Jul  7 07:54:47 2003
From: essai1 at mci.local (News M Claveau /Hamster-P)
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 13:54:47 +0200
Subject: Python vs PHP
References: <mailman.1057574470.1750.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bebmn0$6k8$1@news-reader3.wanadoo.fr>

Hi !

PHP-5 let down MySql, for Sql-Lite (rumor ?)

Python has good support for MySql AND Sql-Lite.

@+

Michel Claveau





From harry.g.george at boeing.com  Thu Jul 10 13:23:54 2003
From: harry.g.george at boeing.com (Harry George)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 17:23:54 GMT
Subject: Securing PyDoc and CGIHTTPserver
References: <2621b014.0307100535.449ad06f@posting.google.com> <3F0D7887.9D069ED0@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <xqx3chexplh.fsf@cola2.ca.boeing.com>

Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> writes:

> Jon Schull wrote:
> > 
> > PyDoc's author Ka-Ping Yee has suggested that PyDoc be patched to
> > prevent access from unauthorized IP addresses
> > (https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=305470&aid=672656&group_id=5470),
> > and that without such a patch, its not " suitable for running on boxes
> > that aren't behind firewalls"
> > 
> > It's hard to know how much to worry about such things (Comments?).
> > 
> > However, even with the patch, IP addresses can be spoofed.  Here is an
> > additional security tactic that might be adopted.
> > 
> > The port number used by pydoc is currently set by the user at the
> > command line.  Many people probably use the example given in the
> > python module documentation : "python -p 1234"    However, if the port
> > were chosen at random and printed out, then only pydoc and the user
> > would know how to access the pydoc server.
> > 
> > I'm considering a similar strategy for a server based on the
> > CGIHTTPServer module, so comments would be welcome.
> 
> My suggestion: don't attempt to mix security into each individual
> application in a piecemeal manner.  Use the proper tools for the
> job, such as firewalls.  Setting up a firewall on Linux or WinXP
> is nearly trivial at this point, and the learning experience is
> worth the effort for those who are new to this, so there's not 
> much excuse for doing it properly, IMHO.
> 

Here, we have lots of COTS *NIX behind the corporate firewalls, and
want to provide internal security.  We do this with SSL'd
communications.  I can see how a firewall denies/allows specific IP
addresses (or at least claimed IP addresses), but not how it solves
sniffing, spoofing, man-in-the-middle, etc., where encryption
protocols are needed.

> -Peter

-- 
harry.g.george at boeing.com
6-6M31 Knowledge Management
Phone: (425) 294-8757



From m at moshez.org  Mon Jul  7 06:47:47 2003
From: m at moshez.org (Moshe Zadka)
Date: 7 Jul 2003 10:47:47 -0000
Subject: anything new on the ternary operator?
In-Reply-To: <3F09252F.9B0F52BD@alcyone.com>
References: <3F09252F.9B0F52BD@alcyone.com>, <mailman.1057533670.9800.python-list@python.org> <beae42$d01$1@panix2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <20030707104747.14886.qmail@green.zadka.com>

On Mon, 07 Jul 2003, Erik Max Francis <max at alcyone.com> wrote:

> Bob's phrasing of it was obviously overly confrontational, but I do find
> it at least a little unfortunate that the final decision on PEP 308 only
> came indirectly (meaning not as any form of widespread public
> announcement, but rather as a side point in a presentation at a local
> conference)

I'm sorry, I was going to let this slide by, but this comment made it
impossible. How the hell do you figure EuroPython, the biggest Python
conference in Europe and largely equivalent to the size of PyCon, is a
"local" conference?

By and large, I think EuroPython holds half the heritage of the venerable
IPCs, being way more international than PyCon. Announcements of new
developments are often done at conferences, especially the larger ones.
It has been said multiple times that Guido is likely to make an announcement
in EuroPython, and it was pretty easy to get the answer out on c.l.py soon
afterwards. While the PEP will eventually be updated, I am glad Guido thought
it was a higher priority to get 2.3b2 out the door in the little time he had
between EP and OSCON.

> There isn't a problem that PEPs and such voting processes are worthless
> -- obviously the BDFL has the final say -- but perhaps it would have
> been a little nicer to get an official position on the subject earlier.

Guido said that he wanted to let the discussion simmer down before he made
an official pronouncement. He also *did* consider the vote: if you remember,
there were a few interpretations. Guido chose the one who enforced
Condorset(sp?) semantics on the results, an arguably sane position considering
other free software projects use this voting method. According to this
interpretation, the vote resulted in "don't change".

-- 
Moshe Zadka -- http://moshez.org/
Buffy: I don't like you hanging out with someone that... short.
Riley: Yeah, a lot of young people nowadays are experimenting with shortness.
Agile Programming Language -- http://www.python.org/




From hwlgw at hotmail.com  Fri Jul 11 18:24:58 2003
From: hwlgw at hotmail.com (Will Stuyvesant)
Date: 11 Jul 2003 15:24:58 -0700
Subject: XML, xmlproc, MathML and validation
References: <cb035744.0307110533.61e5e125@posting.google.com> <3F0EC38B.EBDE74E@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <cb035744.0307111424.665fbc3f@posting.google.com>

> [Alan Kennedy <alanmk at hotmail.com>]
>                                                    ...For example, the
> public identifier "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.1 plus MathML 2.0//EN" could be
> mapped to a local file.

An example how to do that would be very welcome!

> So you should be able to map DTD identifiers to your local system for
> the times when a remote DTD is not available. More info from here
> 
> http://www.garshol.priv.no/download/software/xmlproc/catalog-doco.html

Okay, then I will try to find the example there.

> Have you supplied a value for the "xml:space" attribute anywhere in
> your document?

No of course not: as you can see from my stupid questions I am a total
XML newbie :-)

> If no: I'm not familiar enough with the MathML DTD to know if it has
> special requirements for whitespace processing.
> 
> Looking at your error message, and the DTD, might it be that you have
> used a value other than "xml:space='preserve'" on a <pre> section?
> Just a guess.

So what you are saying points to the MathML DTD having peculiar
whitespace handling?  Would not be the first example of a weird
standard.
Thank you.


-- 
Being in the army is like being in the Boy Scouts, except that the Boy
Scouts have adult supervision.
                -- Blake Clark



From glenfant at NOSPAM.bigfoot.com  Tue Jul 22 08:06:10 2003
From: glenfant at NOSPAM.bigfoot.com (Gilles Lenfant)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 14:06:10 +0200
Subject: Pause in a loop
References: <%W7Ta.10360$t92.299097@news1.tin.it>
Message-ID: <bfj8ij$25om$1@biggoron.nerim.net>

"manuel" <manuelbastioniNOSPAM at tin.it> a ?crit dans le message de news:
%W7Ta.10360$t92.299097 at news1.tin.it...
>
> I've two modules: main.py and eval.py
>
> Eval.py is imported in main.py, but I've a loop
> in eval.py that must call a function in main.py...
>
> I can't import main.py in eval.py too, because
> that would create an import loop.
>
> But I'm thinking a different solution:
> a pause in a loop to return periodically an
> output. It's possible?
>
>
> thanks,
>
>           Manuel
>
>

Send that function to the eval as parameter...

<main.py>
...
import eval

def myfunc(...)
  ...
def main():
    ...
   eval.eval(x, y, z, myfunc)
...
</main.py>

<eval.py>
...
def eval(x, y, z, afunc):
     ...
    afunc(...)
    ....
    return stuff
...
</eval.py>




From stuart_clemons at us.ibm.com  Sun Jul 13 18:30:58 2003
From: stuart_clemons at us.ibm.com (stuartc)
Date: 13 Jul 2003 15:30:58 -0700
Subject: Newbie with sort text file question
References: <86d2ca4.0307121146.3deb854a@posting.google.com> <beq357$thj$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <86d2ca4.0307131344.3fb3b9d3@posting.google.com>

Hi Bengt:

Thank you. Your code worked perfectly based on the text file I
provided.

Unfortunately for me, my real text file has one slight variation that
I did not account for.  That is, the fruit name does not always have
an "_" after its name.  For example, apple below does not an an "_"
attached to it.

banana_c \\yellow
apple   \\green
orange_b \\yellow


This variation in my text file caused a problem with the program.
Here's the error.

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "G:/Python22/Sort_Fruit.py", line 47, in ?
    for fruit, dummyvar in fruitlist: fruitfreq[fruit] =
fruitfreq.get(fruit, 0)+1
ValueError: unpack list of wrong size

I tried to debug and fix this variation, but I wasn't able to.  I did
notice that your split, splits each line in the file into two fields,
as long as there's an "_" with a fruit name.  If the fruit name does
not have an "_", then the split does not occur. I think this is
related to the problem, but I couldn't figure out how to fix it.

Any help will be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

- Stuart



bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) wrote in message news:<beq357$thj$0 at 216.39.172.122>...
> On 12 Jul 2003 12:46:51 -0700, stuart_clemons at us.ibm.com (stuartc) wrote:
> 
> >Hi:
> >
> >I'm not a total newbie, but I'm pretty green.  I need to sort a text
> >file and then get a total for the number of occurances for a part of
> >the string. Hopefully, this will explain it better:
> >
> >Here's the text file: 
> >
> >banana_c \\yellow
> >apple_a \\green
> >orange_b \\yellow
> >banana_d \\green
> >orange_a \\orange
> >apple_w \\yellow
> >banana_e \\green
> >orange_x \\yellow
> >orange_y \\orange
> >
> >I would like two output files:
> >
> >1) Sorted like this, by the fruit name (the name before the dash)
> >
> >apple_a \\green
> >apple_w \\yellow
> >banana_c \\yellow
> >banana_d \\green
> >banana_e \\green
> >orange_a \\orange
> >orange_b \\yellow
> >orange_x \\yellow
> >orange_y \\orange
> >
> >2) Then summarized like this, ordered with the highest occurances
> >first:
> >
> >orange occurs 4
> >banana occurs 3
> >apple occurs 2
> >
> >Total occurances is 9
> >
> >Thanks for any help !
> 
> ===< stuartc.py >========================================================
> import StringIO
> textf = StringIO.StringIO(r"""
> banana_c \\yellow
> apple_a \\green
> orange_b \\yellow
> banana_d \\green
> orange_a \\orange
> apple_w \\yellow
> banana_e \\green
> orange_x \\yellow
> orange_y \\orange
> """)
> 
> # I would like two output files:
> # (actually two files ?? Ok)
> 
> # 1) Sorted like this, by the fruit name (the name before the dash)
> 
> fruitlist = [line.split('_',1) for line in textf if line.strip()]
> fruitlist.sort()
> 
> # apple_a \\green
> # apple_w \\yellow
> # banana_c \\yellow
> # banana_d \\green
> # banana_e \\green
> # orange_a \\orange
> # orange_b \\yellow
> # orange_x \\yellow
> # orange_y \\orange
> 
> outfile_1 = StringIO.StringIO()
> outfile_1.write(''.join(['_'.join(pair) for pair in fruitlist]))
> 
> # 2) Then summarized like this, ordered with the highest occurances
> # first:
> 
> # orange occurs 4
> # banana occurs 3
> # apple occurs 2
> 
> outfile_2 = StringIO.StringIO()
> fruitfreq = {}
> for fruit, dummyvar in fruitlist: fruitfreq[fruit] = fruitfreq.get(fruit, 0)+1
> fruitfreqlist = [(occ,name) for name,occ in fruitfreq.items()]
> fruitfreqlist.sort()
> fruitfreqlist.reverse()
> outfile_2.write('\n'.join(['%s occurs %s'%(name,occ) for occ,name in fruitfreqlist]+['']))
> 
> # Total occurances is 9
> print >> outfile_2,"Total occurances [sic] is [sic] %s" % reduce(int.__add__, fruitfreq.values())
> 
> ## show results
> print '\nFile 1:\n------------\n%s------------' % outfile_1.getvalue()
> print '\nFile 2:\n------------\n%s------------' % outfile_2.getvalue()
> =========================================================================
> executed:
> 
> [15:52] C:\pywk\clp>stuartc.py
> 
> File 1:
> ------------
> apple_a \\green
> apple_w \\yellow
> banana_c \\yellow
> banana_d \\green
> banana_e \\green
> orange_a \\orange
> orange_b \\yellow
> orange_x \\yellow
> orange_y \\orange
> ------------
> 
> File 2:
> ------------
> orange occurs 4
> banana occurs 3
> apple occurs 2
> Total occurances [sic] is [sic] 9
> ------------
> 
> Is that what you wanted?
> 
> Regards,
> Bengt Richter



From sjmachin at lexicon.net  Sun Jul 20 09:47:52 2003
From: sjmachin at lexicon.net (John Machin)
Date: 20 Jul 2003 06:47:52 -0700
Subject: Strings and Unicode
References: <fef0a228.0307200027.2ef962e9@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c76ff6fc.0307200547.2098939a@posting.google.com>

madsurfer2000 at hotmail.com (-) wrote in message news:<fef0a228.0307200027.2ef962e9 at posting.google.com>...
> I have a function that takes a string as an input parameter. This
> function then urlencodes the string and sends it to a server with
> telnetlib.Telnet
> 
> The problem is that the string gets converted into what seems to be
> Unicode. How can I check to see if the input-string is Unicode and
> convert it to a different character set (in this case ISO-Latin1).

You don't/can't urlencode a string. You urlencode a bunch of
(key,value) strings which are represented as "a mapping object or a
sequence of two-element tuples" so sayeth the documentation. See
below. Passing a string attracts a TypeError. See below. If you
provide a simple example of what you are doing, plus the output that
"seems to be Unicode", plus of course the input that cause the strange
output, we may be able to help you further.

Python 2.2.3 (#42, May 30 2003, 18:12:08) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on
win32
>>> import urllib
>>> foo = urllib.urlencode({'foo':42,'bar':69})
>>> type(foo)
<type 'str'>
>>> foo
'foo=42&bar=69'
>>> foo = urllib.urlencode('abcdef')
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
  File "c:\python22\lib\urllib.py", line 1171, in urlencode
    raise TypeError
TypeError: not a valid non-string sequence or mapping object
>>>



From davidcfox at post.harvard.edu  Tue Jul 22 00:00:35 2003
From: davidcfox at post.harvard.edu (David C. Fox)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 04:00:35 GMT
Subject: detecting containers during object introspection
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1058834074.20023.python-list@python.org>
References: <woVSa.102913$sY2.46301@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net> <mailman.1058834074.20023.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <DF2Ta.116099$N7.15785@sccrnsc03>

Steven Taschuk wrote:

> Quoth David C. Fox:
> 
>>Is there a reasonable way to tell whether a variable is a container 
>>(either a mapping or a sequence) and whether it is a mapping or a 
>>sequence?  [...]
> 
> 
> Depends what you mean by "reasonable".
> 
> In the usual scenario, there's a specific facility which you want
> to make use of, and you can either (a) just try to use it, and
> catch the relevant exception (called Easier to Ask Forgiveness
> than Permission, or EAFP), or (b) do some kind of check beforehand
> for whether the facility exists (called Look Before You Leap, or
> LBYL).
> 
> Your example of trying iter(foo) and catching the possible
> TypeError fits into such approaches.
> 
>   [...]
> 
>>Wouldn't it be helpful to have an abstract base class Sequence which 
>>didn't add any actual attributes or methods, but which someone writing a 
>>sequence class could include as a base class, as a sort of unenforced 
>>promise that the sequence operators were supported?
> 
> 
> Consider a DNS name -> address mapping whose __getitem__ actually
> queries the DNS.  (Ignore the fact that this could be better done
> with a function -- assume we have a function which expects a
> dict-like object and we want to use it on the DNS.)  Such an
> object could not reasonably implement __len__.  Should it falsely
> imply that it does (by inheriting from an abstract class Mapping)
> or falsely imply that it's not a mapping (by not inheriting from
> Mapping)?
> 
> Such cases -- those in which for conceptual or pragmatic reasons
> it is infeasible or undesirable to implement all of an interface
> -- are not uncommon.

Thanks, makes sense - I'll just try...catch the actual operations I use.

>>Why am I asking this question?
>>
>>I'm trying to write a regression test for a class which pickles 
>>dictionaries of attributes to store and retrieve instances.  The 
>>dictionary includes a version number, and the class has a system for 
>>updating out-of-date instances to the current version.
>>
>>As part of the test, I need to be able to compare the structure of the 
>>two dictionaries to see if the developer has modified their structure 
>>but forgotten to increment the current version.  Values in the 
>>dictionary may be unknown objects, in which case I just want to compare 
>>their types.  However, the values may also be sequences or mappings 
>>themselves, in which case I want to recursively compare their 
>>elements/values.
> 
> 
> Interesting.  So you have an example of a standard dictionary for
> a given version number, and you want to compare the structure of
> the actual dictionary to the standard example dictionary.  Is that
> right?

Yes.  The particular scenario I'm most worried about is if a developer 
makes a change to the structure of the dictionary, but fails to 
increment the current version number.  In that case, users with existing 
stored dictionaries who update to a new version of the program will end 
up with incorrectly constructed objects, and are likely to have all 
sorts of strange and hard-to-debug problems.

> Are your developers actually using dict-like and list-like objects
> instead of real dicts and lists?  If not, isn't the type-check for
> unknown objects enough?  (If they do start using work-alikes
> instead of the real thing, the test will fail, but YAGNI, right?

Yes to the first*, but yes and good points to the second and third.

[*well, not exactly - I recently replaced a dictionary with a trie data 
structure which effectively maps from sequences of strings to values, 
but it doesn't currently use keys() or __getitem__(self, key).]

However, the real problem occurs if the developer makes a change like 
this (or even just adds a new attribute which is a non-standard 
container), and does increment the version number.  Because the version 
number was incremented, the regression test would *expect* some of the 
dictionary elements to change type or structure, and would simply update 
the standard example dictionary.  Then, any *subsequent* changes to the 
structure of the values in that container would go undetected (unless 
the developer had also updated the recursive comparison operation to 
take into account that the unknown object was a container).

But this scenario requires several mistakes, so YAGNI is probably still 
good advice.  Besides, since there isn't any way to detect containers 
that don't use the standard methods, I guess the automated regression 
testing approach will never be foolproof, and we'll have to fall back on:

(1) giving stern instructions (and good documentation) to our 
developers, and

(2) making sure a developer who is aware of these issues looks over 
their shoulders and their code.  Yet another responsibility - just what 
I need.  Not to mention the sore neck I'm going to get looking over my 
own shoulder ;-)

David




From adechert at earthlink.net  Mon Jul 21 19:04:47 2003
From: adechert at earthlink.net (Alan Dechert)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 23:04:47 GMT
Subject: Voting Project Needs Python People
References: <LDVSa.14955$Mc.1126731@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <xqxwuebfyym.fsf@cola2.ca.boeing.com> <bfhhgq$5lu$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net> <xqx7k6b36r8.fsf@cola2.ca.boeing.com>
Message-ID: <jk_Sa.113364$Io.9707082@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>

"Harry George" <harry.g.george at boeing.com> wrote in message
news:xqx7k6b36r8.fsf at cola2.ca.boeing.com...
>
> Here is a possible scenario:
>
> 1. Software chooses 1% of votes to change (big enough to have an
>    effect, small enough to maybe go unnoticed).
>
I don't think this is a possible scenario.  However, it brings up an
interesting test for our full blown study (keep in mind, we're trying to
focus on getting the demo done even though people want to jump ahead to
speculate on every possible detail).

The question you raise here has to do with the chance of x% votes being
recorded differently on paper without y number of voters noticing.  I think
it would also depend on the contest that was changed.  That is, it's
probably more likely that the voter would remember his or her choice for
president than, say, county supervisor.  This also points out some
difficulty with trying to test this with a mock election.  The voter may not
take the selections serious enough to care about remembering exactly how
they voted.

But taking your number, if you changed 1% of the votes in CA, you're talking
about on the order of 100,000 ballots (assuming you're talking about
changing only one contest... if you're talking about all the votes cast on
all races, then that's going to mean many times more ballots altered --
probably over one million).  I think it's likely that some sizable fraction
*would* notice (again, depending somewhat on the contest).  Say it's only
one tenth.  That's 10,000 voters that will be complaining that the computer
changed the vote.  That many complaints would set off fire alarms big time.

> 2. Paper is correct.  Visual monitor is correct.  Electronic storage
>    is changed.  Voter leaves happy.
>
Okay, but now the electronic record doesn't match.  With our system, the
paper is the authentic vote.  There is no crisis because the paper ballots
are available for recount.

> 3. Results are posted based on electronic storage.
>
But it will be caught.  There will be checks in place (in CA we already hand
verify 1% of the ballots at random after the election).  And with
standardized laser printed output, automated scanning should be much faster
and more accurate than scanning hand marked ballots.  Depending on how
elections are administered with this new equipment, it might be possible for
initial results to be posted incorrectly, but virtually impossible that the
tally would stand unchallenged.  A guard against inital bad results would
entail some sampling before the results are announced. We can use some
statistics -- cumulative binomial distribution -- to get a pretty good
confidence level of correctness with a small sample.

> 4. Only if enough people suspect trouble do we go to the paper trail.
>    At 1%, that may not happen.  Yet a 2% swing is pretty big in many
>    settings.
>
I don't think your arguement is very substantial, but certainly these are
some issues a large scale study of new voting technology should investigate.

Still, has nothing to do with the demo I am talking about.

Alan Dechert





From martin at v.loewis.de  Wed Jul  9 01:34:35 2003
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-15?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 09 Jul 2003 07:34:35 +0200
Subject: Possible to install from CD using distutils?
References: <c281f461.0307081652.6df70226@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <m3d6gkgt5g.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

bobsmith327 at hotmail.com (Bob Smith) writes:

> Hi.  I'm trying to distribute a Python package on a CD-ROM that gets
> installed using distutils.  The problem is that distutils attempts to
> write a new 'build' folder on the CD during the installation and fails
> (it of course can't write the to CD).  

You can use the --build-base option to change that directory.

Regards,
Martin



From ruach at chpc.utah.edu  Tue Jul 29 11:02:37 2003
From: ruach at chpc.utah.edu (Matthew)
Date: 29 Jul 2003 08:02:37 -0700
Subject: octet string conversion
References: <ec1162c7.0307281214.50b68373@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <ec1162c7.0307290702.3ef3b125@posting.google.com>

Thats great! I really appreciate the help. The F and spaces and ] etc,
are not typos they real output via pysnmp.I used Erik Max Francis'
code and it did exactly  what I needed. Thank you all for
contributing.

-matthew



From mynews44 at yahoo.com  Tue Jul 29 04:01:03 2003
From: mynews44 at yahoo.com (google account)
Date: 29 Jul 2003 01:01:03 -0700
Subject: newbie needs a little help... trying to write an ftp script.
References: <e84f5d12.0307281040.42a19391@posting.google.com> <bg3ro2$96q$03$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <e84f5d12.0307290001.25c09a7a@posting.google.com>

Diez wrote:
> Googleboy wrote:
> > import ftplib
> > 
> > ftp = ftplib.FTP('172.30.30.30')  # This is wrong,  somehow...?
> > ftp.login(user,pass)
> > ftp.retrlines('LIST')  # I believe it might need to be
> > ftp.retrlines('ls -al')
> > ftp.sendcmd('prompt')
> > ftp.cwd('folder')
> > ftp.retrbinary(retr *tgz)
> > ftp.quit()

> Your example worked fine with me for "ftp.suse.com" - at least the first 3
> lines. It didn't understand ls -al and prompt, and a folder "folder" didn't
> exist of course.

A bit of further reading pointed out to me that sendcmd is limited to
rfc959 commands only,  it doens't interpret commands you can type into
an ftp session as I first assumed.  So things like "prompt' (which
turns interactive mode off in ftp clients) won't work.

This introduces extra complexity to my task - I am trying to log into
an ftp site and do a "mget *tgz" and have it download all files ending
in tgz.  I don't think this is a simple thing to accomplish anymore.
 
> The ftp.retrbinary(retr *tgz) is also flawed - what is retr, a variable? I
> think you need to look up that command again. And *tgz can't be right, too.
> You most probably want "*tgz" there (a string literal)

I think I wanted the whole thing to be a string literal.  I have done
a bit more poking and prodding and found that

ftp.retrlines('RETR file')

will work,  so long as file is a text document,  so it can spit the
output to standard out.

retrlines/retrbinary has this thing called a callback.  I am expecting
that is something that allows the script to write the file.  I also
imagine that it will only allow me to have one open callback at a
time.  This further complicates achieving my objectives.

I think I am going to have to figure out some sort of a for loop based
on the output of a list command.

thanks for the help diez.

googleboy.



From mis6 at pitt.edu  Tue Jul 22 22:11:23 2003
From: mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato)
Date: 22 Jul 2003 19:11:23 -0700
Subject: feature request: a better str.endswith
References: <2259b0e2.0307180401.5dae02f2@posting.google.com> <mailman.1058530829.7072.python-list@python.org> <3f17f883$0$49107$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl> <2259b0e2.0307190529.57338b3f@posting.google.com> <NpkSa.16049$7O.14695@nwrdny01.gnilink.net> <2259b0e2.0307200721.16ef2ea1@posting.google.com> <45228044.0307210522.1ef95144@posting.google.com> <2259b0e2.0307210918.614892ba@posting.google.com> <bfi4ir$t21$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <2259b0e2.0307221610.3cc91757@posting.google.com>

bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) wrote in message news:<bfi4ir$t21$0 at 216.39.172.122>...
> I think I'd prefer
> 
>   if any_true(filename.endswith, ('.jpg','.jpeg','.gif','.png')):
>      dosomething()
> 
> I suspect it will more often make sense read aloud in the general
> 
>   if any_true(pred, seq):
> 
> than
> 
>   if the(pred, seq)
> 
> I guess the full set of functions might be
> any_true, any_false, all_true, and all_false.
> 
> or maybe someone can think of better short phrase?
> 
> Regards,
> Bengt Richter

I think in the specific case I was talking about "the" was quite
readable; however I agree that in the general case "any_true" etc.
would be better.
I would not be opposed to add these convenience functions in
itertools. The
advantage is standardization (i.e. I don't have to invent my own name,
different from the name chosen by anybody else), the disadvantage is 
more things to learn; however, with such descriptive names, it would
be
difficult to not grasp what those functions are doing, even without
looking at the documentation. Anyway, I am sure many will be opposed, 
saying that such functions are so simple that they do not deserve to
be
in the library. This would be a sensible opinion, BTW.


          Michele



From theller at python.net  Mon Jul 14 14:05:24 2003
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 20:05:24 +0200
Subject: A few beginning questions
References: <3f129a8a$1@mail.hmgcc.gov.uk> <2259b0e2.0307140930.4b3c43a5@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <ptkdj863.fsf@python.net>

mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato) writes:

> "richardc" <richardc at hmgcc.gov.uk> wrote in message news:<3f129a8a$1 at mail.hmgcc.gov.uk>...
>> Ive just started playing with Python and have a couple of questions.
>> 
>> Im looking for an agument parsing library (from the command line), Ive come
>> across optik and argtools.  What other ones are there are any of them any
>> good, is there a 'standard' lib for doing this.
>>
>
> optparse (a.k.a. optik) is great, whereas I never made my mind up to
> getopt. To "cure" getopt, I needed to define my own routines for
> argument parsing; after I started using optparse I had the satisfaction
> of erasing all of them ;)

I have not yet tried optparse. Is it able to parse Windows' style
command lines (use '/' instead of '-', ignore case of command line
options, use long options with a single '-' or '/')?

Thomas



From justinjohnson at fastmail.fm  Tue Jul  8 17:08:29 2003
From: justinjohnson at fastmail.fm (Justin Johnson)
Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 15:08:29 -0600
Subject: process.py problems
In-Reply-To: <20030708094057.C9520@ActiveState.com>
References: <20030708153117.127C0326C0@www.fastmail.fm> <20030708094057.C9520@ActiveState.com>
Message-ID: <20030708210829.B3BBE3886D@www.fastmail.fm>

Thanks for the reply!

which 1.0.2

Here's the log output with the dir command
-----------------------
process.res: info:[18392288] ProcessOpen._start(): create child stdin:
<_FileWra
pper: file:None fd:3 os_handle:<PyHANDLE object at 0x0118C694>>
process.res: info:[18392288] ProcessOpen._start(): create child stdout:
<_FileWr
apper: file:None fd:4 os_handle:<PyHANDLE object at 0x0118C674>>
process.res: info:[18392288] ProcessOpen._start(): create child stderr:
<_FileWr
apper: file:None fd:5 os_handle:<PyHANDLE object at 0x0118C654>>
process.res: info:[18392288] ProcessOpen.__del__()
process: info:[18392288] ProcessOpen.close()
process: info:[18392288] ProcessOpen: closing stdin (<_FileWrapper:
file:None fd
:3 os_handle:<PyHANDLE object at 0x0118C694>>).
process: debug:[18400496] _FileWrapper.close()
process: debug:[18400496] _FileWrapper.close: close handle
process: debug:[18400496] _FileWrapper.close: closing handle raised
process: debug:[18400496] _FileWrapper.close: done closing handle
process: info:[18392288] ProcessOpen: closing stdout (<_FileWrapper:
file:None f
d:4 os_handle:<PyHANDLE object at 0x0118C674>>).
process: debug:[18400720] _FileWrapper.close()
process: debug:[18400720] _FileWrapper.close: close handle
process: debug:[18400720] _FileWrapper.close: closing handle raised
process: debug:[18400720] _FileWrapper.close: done closing handle
process: info:[18392288] ProcessOpen: closing stderr (<_FileWrapper:
file:None f
d:5 os_handle:<PyHANDLE object at 0x0118C654>>).
process: debug:[18403024] _FileWrapper.close()
process: debug:[18403024] _FileWrapper.close: close handle
process: debug:[18403024] _FileWrapper.close: closing handle raised
process: debug:[18403024] _FileWrapper.close: done closing handle
process: debug:[18400720] _FileWrapper.close()
process: debug:[18400496] _FileWrapper.close()
process: debug:[18403024] _FileWrapper.close()
----------------

I also get the following results running commands that are in my path...
------------------
g`"apper: file:None fd:5 os_handle:<PyHANDLE object at 0x011D30A4>>
process: debug:_SaferCreateProcess(appName=None,
                    cmd='C lsview -s',
                    env=None,
                    cwd=None)
    os.getcwd(): 'E:\\ccase\\python\\uhg\\uht'

process.res: info:[18680944] ProcessOpen.__del__()
process: info:[18680944] ProcessOpen.close()
process: info:[18680944] ProcessOpen: closing stdin (<_FileWrapper:
file:None fd
:3 os_handle:<PyHANDLE object at 0x011D4744>>).
process: debug:[18696880] _FileWrapper.close()
process: debug:[18696880] _FileWrapper.close: close handle
process: debug:[18696880] _FileWrapper.close: closing handle raised
process: debug:[18696880] _FileWrapper.close: done closing handle
process: info:[18680944] ProcessOpen: closing stdout (<_FileWrapper:
file:None f
d:4 os_handle:<PyHANDLE object at 0x011D47C4>>).
process: debug:[18696832] _FileWrapper.close()
process: debug:[18696832] _FileWrapper.close: close handle
process: debug:[18696832] _FileWrapper.close: closing handle raised
process: debug:[18696832] _FileWrapper.close: done closing handle
process: info:[18680944] ProcessOpen: closing stderr (<_FileWrapper:
file:None f
d:5 os_handle:<PyHANDLE object at 0x011D30A4>>).
process: debug:[18699984] _FileWrapper.close()
process: debug:[18699984] _FileWrapper.close: close handle
process: debug:[18699984] _FileWrapper.close: closing handle raised
process: debug:[18699984] _FileWrapper.close: done closing handle
process: debug:[18696832] _FileWrapper.close()
process: debug:[18696880] _FileWrapper.close()
process: debug:[18699984] _FileWrapper.close()
---------


On Tue, 8 Jul 2003 09:40:57 -0700, "Trent Mick" <trentm at ActiveState.com>
said:
> 
> Justin,
> 
> Can you try turning logging on in process.py to perhaps get a better
> picture of what it is trying to do. Look for the "internal logging"
> section. There should be some "if 0"s that you can turn to "if 1"s for
> debugging. (Or vice versa -- my process.py version is a little bit
> different than the public one.)
> 
> My guess: process.py, in some cases, will try to run command via the
> local shell (i.e. cmd.exe or command.com on Windows). This is necessary
> for some commands like "dir" which are not executables themselves but
> just a part of the shell. However, process.py is not as clean as it
> should be on when it does and when it does not use the shell. Perhaps
> process.py is not using the shell when it should here.
> 
> ... note, there may also be a problem with respect to which.py and
> process.py version mismatch. which.py 1.x changed its API from which.py
> 0.x and process.py may not be dealing with that correctly. I may need to
> put up a new process.py to get that right. What is the output of:
>     which --version
> or:
>     >>> import which
>     >>> which._version_
> 
> Cheers,
> Trent
> 
> [Justin Johnson wrote]
> > Hello,
> > 
> > I was wondering if anyone has seen this behavior before for the
> > process.py
> > module available at http://starship.python.net/crew/tmick/.  I've been
> > using it quite well on windows 2000 servers, but when I try to use it on
> > a window nt 4.0 box I get the results posted below.  I have both
> > process.py and which.py installed.
> > 
> > Any help you can provide is greatly appreciated.
> > 
> > >>> import process
> > >>> p = process.ProcessOpen("dir")
> > Traceback (most recent call last):
> >   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
> >   File "process.py", line 1108, in __init__
> >     self._startOnWindows()
> >   File "process.py", line 1279, in _startOnWindows
> >     cmd = _fixupCommand(cmd, self._env)
> >   File "process.py", line 506, in _fixupCommand
> >     cmd = _whichFirstArg(cmd, env)
> >   File "process.py", line 315, in _whichFirstArg
> >     candidates = list(which.which(first))
> >   File "which.py", line 251, in which
> >     raise WhichError("Could not find '%s' on the path." % command)
> > which.WhichError: Could not find 'dir' on the path.
> > >>> p = process.ProcessOpen("dir.exe")
> > Traceback (most recent call last):
> >   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
> >   File "process.py", line 1108, in __init__
> >     self._startOnWindows()
> >   File "process.py", line 1279, in _startOnWindows
> >     cmd = _fixupCommand(cmd, self._env)
> >   File "process.py", line 506, in _fixupCommand
> >     cmd = _whichFirstArg(cmd, env)
> >   File "process.py", line 315, in _whichFirstArg
> >     candidates = list(which.which(first))
> >   File "which.py", line 251, in which
> >     raise WhichError("Could not find '%s' on the path." % command)
> > which.WhichError: Could not find 'dir.exe' on the path.
> > >>> p = process.ProcessOpen("cmd")
> > Traceback (most recent call last):
> >   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
> >   File "process.py", line 1108, in __init__
> >     self._startOnWindows()
> >   File "process.py", line 1295, in _startOnWindows
> >     raise ProcessError(msg=ex.args[2], errno=ex.args[0])
> > process.ProcessError: The system cannot find the file specified.
> > >>> 
> > 
> > -- 
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 
> -- 
> Trent Mick
> TrentM at ActiveState.com
> 




From bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au  Sun Jul 13 22:56:29 2003
From: bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au (Ben Finney)
Date: 14 Jul 2003 12:46:29 +0950
Subject: How to crash Python in 1 easy step (python 2.2.2)
References: <2e363c08.0307130944.4c470bc3@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <slrnbh484d.i8u.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>

On 13 Jul 2003 10:44:41 -0700, Paul Miller wrote:
> Anytime python is accepting keyboard input, whether it's with
> raw_input, or sitting on the command line waiting for the user to type
> code, you can crash python by holding ctrl+shift and then pressing
> enter.

Is this in an xterm, in some other terminal emulator, in a console
session?  I'm guessing you'll see different behaviour if you try all
three of those, which will help narrow down the problem.

Not that a segfault (assuming that's what you mean by "crash") isn't a
bug -- any event that doesn't make the system hardware unreliable should
be handled without a segfault.

-- 
 \          "One time a cop pulled me over for running a stop sign. He |
  `\        said, 'Didn't you see the stop sign?' I said, 'Yeah, but I |
_o__)             don't believe everything I read.'"  -- Steven Wright |
http://bignose.squidly.org/ 9CFE12B0 791A4267 887F520C B7AC2E51 BD41714B



From max at alcyone.com  Wed Jul  2 19:51:49 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 16:51:49 -0700
Subject: python 2.3b[12]
References: <mailman.1057185306.22713.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3F037015.3D6D7034@alcyone.com>

Dave Reed wrote:

> ./python
> Python 2.3b1 (#1, Jun 14 2003, 15:08:24)
> [GCC 3.2.3] on sunos5
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> >>>
> 
> I thought maybe this was just someone forgetting to update the startup
> message for the new beta, but I've seen other messages that show
> Python 2.3b2.
> 
> Any ideas on what happened?

Hmm, mine doesn't (built from scratch on Linux):

max at oxygen:~% python2.3
Python 2.3b2 (#1, Jun 29 2003, 20:30:58) 
[GCC egcs-2.91.66 19990314/Linux (egcs-1.1.2 release)] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.

Are you sure you're running the version you think you are?

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ Love is the true price of love.
\__/  George Herbert



From heikowu at ceosg.de  Wed Jul 16 21:54:58 2003
From: heikowu at ceosg.de (Heiko Wundram)
Date: 17 Jul 2003 03:54:58 +0200
Subject: anything like C++ references?
In-Reply-To: <rkbbhvckjv6hotsns9upcift64oqp4qtoc@4ax.com>
References: <mailman.1058225603.22981.python-list@python.org>
	 <2a07hvo1ft7q7gedt4hq16g518iom905lu@4ax.com>
	 <mailman.1058333068.12050.python-list@python.org>
	 <rkbbhvckjv6hotsns9upcift64oqp4qtoc@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <1058406898.593.2.camel@d168.stw.stud.uni-saarland.de>

On Wed, 2003-07-16 at 22:02, Stephen Horne wrote:
> The pointer thing was raised in the context of a larger discussion. It
> *would* be necessary if another change was made (don't worry, it won't
> happen).

I know the broader discussion context, but if changes like those (e.g.
copy on write) were to happen at some further point in time, that would
definitely be the moment for me to stop using Python, and switch to
Ruby.

Python's data model is good as it is, I don't really see the need to add
more to it. We've gone a long way with type-class unification, and I
guess there won't be much more need to change for very long...

Heiko.





From jimmy at retzlaff.com  Thu Jul 10 20:36:10 2003
From: jimmy at retzlaff.com (Jimmy Retzlaff)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 17:36:10 -0700
Subject: Embedding Python, threading and scalability
Message-ID: <A7B5C22F20EE3C4E95744E2F03F1887F022090@MAYOR.retzlaff.com>

Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com) wrote:
>Wenning Qiu <wenning_qiu at csgsystems.com> wrote:
>>
>>Has anyone on this list run into the same problem that I have, or does
>>anyone know of any plan of totally insulating multiple embedded Python
>>interpreters?
>
>Sure!  Use multiple processes.

This can have further scalability benefits. The first time I ran up
against the GIL, I grumbled my way through tweaking my code to use
multiple processes and an IPC mechanism (which was surprisingly easy).
After I finished, I realized that nothing about the IPC mechanism I
happened to choose limited my solution to one machine and suddenly my
app was running on 7 CPUs instead of the 2 CPUs I had originally hoped
for. On just 2 CPUs it was probably a little slower than it might have
been because of the IPC overhead, but 7 CPUs put my app in a totally
different league.

Jimmy




From pipen at beast_tu_kielce.pl  Fri Jul 11 03:00:17 2003
From: pipen at beast_tu_kielce.pl (Artur M. Piwko)
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 07:00:17 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: wxPython - question
References: <slrnbgre73.fld.pipen@beast.tu.kielce.pl> <ac3sgv0uv35a7140v826rappcgvl3t2rjd@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <slrnbgso5s.o63.pipen@beast.tu.kielce.pl>

In the darkest hour on Thu, 10 Jul 2003 18:12:55 -0700,
Tom Plunket <tomas at fancy.org> screamed:
> By reading the docs and using the right flags.  :)
> 
> (I've been using wx for two weeks.)
> 

Me - 2 days (-;

> wxFRAME_NO_TASKBAR - Creates an otherwise normal frame but it
> 

Thanks. I was looking for function and this is a style...
I am fighting right now with setting/resetting this flag on live frame.

Artur

-- 
Before the Goat of Mendes... we all must take our turn   |  Artur M. Piwko
Into the magic circle... where still the fire burns      |  mailto:s/_/./
We're spinning round and round... until one takes a fall | -- Mercyful Fate
The fallen one will not return, the fallen one must burn | "Witches' Dance"



From evan at 4-am.com  Tue Jul 29 12:51:17 2003
From: evan at 4-am.com (Evan Simpson)
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 11:51:17 -0500
Subject: variable assignment in "while" loop
In-Reply-To: <slrnbicoqq.6gh.sybrenUSE@sybren.thirdtower.com>
References: <slrnbicoqq.6gh.sybrenUSE@sybren.thirdtower.com>
Message-ID: <3F26A605.8080209@4-am.com>

Sybren Stuvel wrote:
> while info = mydbcursor.fetchone():
> 	print "Information: "+str(info)

Gustavo has already pointed out the classic Pythonic ways of writing 
this.  In the general case, where you don't have an iterator handed to 
you, you can make one as of Python 2.2 like so:

def each(f):
     '''Make a zero-argument function or method iterable.
        It had better have side effects, or this is pointless.'''
     v = f()
     while v:
         yield v
         v = f()

for info in each(mydbcursor.fetchone):
     print "Information:", info

Of course, all this really does is to factor out one of the classic 
Pythonic patterns into a wrapper function.

There's also the Pita pocket solution:

class Pita(object):
     __slots__ = ('pocket',)
     marker = object()
     def __init__(self, v=marker):
         if v is not self.marker:
             self.pocket = v
     def __call__(self, v=marker):
         if v is not self.marker:
             self.pocket = v
         return self.pocket

p = Pita(10)
while p(p() - 1):
     print p()

Cheers,

Evan @ 4-am






From mwilson at the-wire.com  Thu Jul 10 16:59:36 2003
From: mwilson at the-wire.com (Mel Wilson)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 16:59:36 -0400
Subject: sort() doesn't work on dist.keys() ?
References: <6cd58b6.0307101214.34e99f2a@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <4OdD/ks/Kn4S089yn@the-wire.com>

In article <6cd58b6.0307101214.34e99f2a at posting.google.com>,
spinard at ra.rockwell.com (Steve Pinard) wrote:
>New to Python, so please bear with me.
>
>>>> import sys
>>>> print sys.modules.keys()          # works fine
>['code', ...snip... ]
>>>> print sys.modules.keys().sort()   # returns None, why?
>None
>
>According to my reference (Nutshell), keys() returns a
>"copy" of the dict keys as a list, so I would expect when
>I aply sort() to that list, I would get an in-place sorted
>version of that list.  Why do I get None?

   Because [ ... what everybody else said ]


   Apparently the designer of sort didn't want anyone to
mistakenly think that

sorted_version = my_list.sort()

would leave them with a sorted list *and* an intact,
unsorted list.


   Lots of people have asked this.  Maybe in the long run
you want to write a module of your own contining something
like


def sorted_copy (a_sequence, *varargs):
    ret = list (a_sequence)
    ret.sort (*varargs)
    return ret


and put it in site_packages, or somewhere where you can
re-use it easily.  *varargs is there to stand for the
optional comparison function in a_list.sort(cmpfunc).

        Regards.        Mel.



From juliagoolia301 at hotmail.com  Sun Jul 13 18:34:36 2003
From: juliagoolia301 at hotmail.com (Julia Goolia)
Date: 13 Jul 2003 15:34:36 -0700
Subject: installing python library modules (general question)
References: <79ad5955.0307122013.6780fc53@posting.google.com> <mailman.1058113998.31950.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <79ad5955.0307131400.696226ce@posting.google.com>

jeff,

you are a gentleman and a scholar.  that worked like a charm.  thank
you so much.  just so i know... adding something to /etc/ld/so/conf is
different than setting LD_LIBRARY_PATH?  what do you do if you don't
have root access?

thanks again,
julia

Jeff Epler <jepler at unpythonic.net> wrote in message news:<mailman.1058113998.31950.python-list at python.org>...
> Add /usr/local/lib to the list of directories in /etc/ld.so.conf and
> then execute /sbin/ldconfig to create some needed symlinks in
> /usr/local/lib.
> 
> Jeff



From domma at procoders.net  Sat Jul 19 04:29:31 2003
From: domma at procoders.net (Achim Domma)
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 10:29:31 +0200
Subject: compiling mysql-python for python 2.3 on windows
Message-ID: <bfavhb$o0a$05$1@news.t-online.com>

Hello,

I need mysql-python for python 2.3 on windows. I downloaded the source and
tried to build it myself, but I get linker errors:

mysqlclient.lib(password.obj) : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol
__ftol2

The problem seems to be, that the mysql lib is build with VC7, but distutils
tries to compile with VC6 (which are both on my machine). Can I force
distutils to use VC7? Or has somebody prebuild binaries for windows? Or has
somebody another hint on how to get it working on windows? I have also mingw
3.2 installed, if it would be helpfull!?

regards,
Achim





From bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au  Sun Jul  6 22:27:39 2003
From: bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 02:27:39 GMT
Subject: A story about Python... sort of
References: <3f03f430$0$97222$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk> <mailman.1057259346.26179.python-list@python.org> <Yg3Na.97773$R73.11565@sccrnsc04> <mailman.1057533613.9015.python-list@python.org> <yw4Oa.22149$Ey6.10815@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net>
Message-ID: <slrnbghmk2.8cj.bignose-hates-spam@zeus.zipworld.com.au>

On Mon, 07 Jul 2003 02:02:06 GMT, Russell Reagan wrote:
> Anyway, I know of one chess program written in python, and it is
> dreadfully slow compared to *any* program written in C/C++ (that I've
> seen anyway).

Have you looked at the code for it?  Have you profiled it to see where
its bottlenecks are?  It's often the case that a program is low because
of poor design, or simply choosing a slow algorithm.

Until profiling, of course, you can't know which algorithms are too slow
for the program.

> The things that make a chess program fast aren't really python's
> strengths, but hopefully I'm being pessimistic due to my lack of
> python/c knowledge.

My suggestion for those who want to write programs that do something
quickly:

  - Write a program that does the job at all, paying attention to
    simplicity and readability and *no* attention to optimisation.

  - Debug the program so it does everything it's supposed to do, albeit
    slowly.

  - Once the program is correct, and not before, profile it to see where
    it's slow.

  - Pick the biggest bottleneck and make it faster, by one or more of:

      - Choose a faster algorithm, perhaps sacrificing readability or
        simplicity
      - Re-implement in C

  - Iterate the previous step until the program is fast enough or you
    run out of (time|money).

You'll have a program that is quite readable, except in the places where
it needs to be fast.  In my experience, those places are surprisingly
few, and are surprisingly different to where you expected them to be.

> import chess
> chess.run_program_in_c
> print "Thanks for playing! Bye!"

It may well be that all the "real" chess-thinking stuff may be too slow
in Python; you might end up with the move-evaluation routine in C, for
example.

But discover that by profiling a Python implementation first!  If it
turns out to be too slow, at least you've debugged a working algorithm,
and can treat it as pseudocode for the port to C.  If it turns out that
the bottlenecks are somewhere else entirely, you've saved yourself a
huge misguided optimisation effort.

-- 
 \      "My roommate got a pet elephant. Then it got lost. It's in the |
  `\                           apartment somewhere."  -- Steven Wright |
_o__)                                                                  |
http://bignose.squidly.org/ 9CFE12B0 791A4267 887F520C B7AC2E51 BD41714B



From lists at gregfortune.com  Tue Jul 22 15:06:16 2003
From: lists at gregfortune.com (Greg Fortune)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 12:06:16 -0700
Subject: Installing many packages
Message-ID: <nNfTa.3379$Jk5.2344225@feed2.centurytel.net>

I've got a whole bunch of package dependencies in the programs I develop. 
Mainly, they are generic libraries/utilities I've written that are needed
by most of the programs I write.  The biggest problem I've had with
python's packaging system is that I end up needing to install every library
package on each machine I install my programs on.  It's even worse when I
go through an upgrade...

Is there any way to create something like a "meta-package"?  ie, can bundle
a whole bunch of packages together under a single installer?  I'm working
on both Windows and Mac so the tools need to support both platforms.  Does
anything exist for this purpose?

Thanks,

Greg Fortune
Fortune Solutions



From maoy_REMOVE_IF_NOT_SPAM at cis.upenn.edu  Fri Jul 11 00:54:47 2003
From: maoy_REMOVE_IF_NOT_SPAM at cis.upenn.edu (Yun Mao)
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 00:54:47 -0400
Subject: How to get all IP addresses in python?
Message-ID: <belfv0$bqp4$1@netnews.upenn.edu>

Hi. I did a little homework on google for this question. The answer was:
>>> import socket
>>> hostname = socket.gethostname()
>>> ip = socket.gethostbyname(hostname)
>>> print ip
192.168.55.101
But what if I have several interfaces, say eth0, eth0:1, eth1, etc. How to
get all of them? It would be a little undesirable if people suggest to parse
the result of ifconfig because I in particular want the code to be cross
platform. Thanks a lot!

Yun





From chrisperkins37 at hotmail.com  Mon Jul 21 09:22:49 2003
From: chrisperkins37 at hotmail.com (Chris Perkins)
Date: 21 Jul 2003 06:22:49 -0700
Subject: feature request: a better str.endswith
References: <2259b0e2.0307180401.5dae02f2@posting.google.com> <mailman.1058530829.7072.python-list@python.org> <3f17f883$0$49107$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl> <2259b0e2.0307190529.57338b3f@posting.google.com> <NpkSa.16049$7O.14695@nwrdny01.gnilink.net> <2259b0e2.0307200721.16ef2ea1@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <45228044.0307210522.1ef95144@posting.google.com>

mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato) wrote in message news:<2259b0e2.0307200721.16ef2ea1 at posting.google.com>...
> Oops! My mistake, I forgot the islice; it should be
> 
> the=lambda pred,seq: list(itertools.islice(itertools.ifilter(pred,seq),0,1))
> 
> in such a way that we exit at the first hit, otherwise one could just use
> the standard "filter". 

How about:

def the(pred,seq): return True in itertools.imap(pred,seq)

if you really want to use the name "the" ("any" makes much more sense to me).

Chris



From tl_news at nexgo.de  Wed Jul 30 14:00:24 2003
From: tl_news at nexgo.de (Tino Lange)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 20:00:24 +0200
Subject: Syntax: pointers versus value
References: <3F27F673.3000801@mathstat.concordia.ca> <efufiv0a8p1vkfhqqtdgf2d84pusb7hjkt@4ax.com> <3F280475.3000500@mathstat.concordia.ca>
Message-ID: <rk1givc9nbcoelitql99f0v2vbqsr9d0hr@4ax.com>

On Wed, 30 Jul 2003 13:46:29 -0400, Danny Castonguay
<castong at mathstat.concordia.ca> wrote:

>new_graph = initial_graph[:]
>	initial_graph is [[2, 3], [1], [1]]
>	initial_graph is [[2, 3], [1], [1]]
>	initial_graph is [[2, 3], [1, 3], [1]]
>	initial_graph is [[2, 3], [1, 3], [1, 2]]

Hi!

Now you have lists in lists. This is another situation.
 
new_graph = initial_graph[:] will really make a copy of the outer list
- but this outer list contains no values but once again pointers to
other objects. 

Use the copy-module for nested copy things like that:
http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/module-copy.html

Cheers,

Tino




From martin at v.loewis.de  Wed Jul 30 14:15:42 2003
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 20:15:42 +0200
Subject: How to get Windows physical RAM using python?
In-Reply-To: <bg90lh$bkp$1@news3.bu.edu>
References: <bg90lh$bkp$1@news3.bu.edu>
Message-ID: <bg920a$9pt$05$1@news.t-online.com>

Python can't get you Windows physical RAM. You have to order RAM
from a manufacturer or reseller if Windows needs more RAM :-)

Regards,
Martin




From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Jul 10 18:18:06 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 18:18:06 -0400
Subject: for in sequence problem... possible new operator to add to python
References: <mailman.1057857017.7806.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3F0DE61E.1F38C291@engcorp.com>

sismex01 at hebmex.com wrote:
> 
> > From: Peter Hansen [mailto:peter at engcorp.com]
> > When you iterate over a dict in recent versions of Python, you
> > are by definition iterating over the keys in the dict.  If you
> > want the values, you use .values(), and if you want both keys
> > and values, you use .items().  See the docs for more.
> 
> Actually, .keys(), .values() and .items() return their respective
> lists, in arbitrary order.

I realize that.  I didn't mean to imply anything different.

> If you wish to use an iterator, use .iterkeys() , .itervalues()
> or .iteritems() ; very helpful in the case of big dictionaries,
> since you don't need to create and then destroy big lists.

Sorry, perhaps I should stop using the term "iterate" for its
more widely known generic meaning of visiting each item in a 
sequence one at a time, and restrict my usage only to those
cases where in Python I'm talking about an actual "iterator"
object.

("Iterate" was a very general term... it would be a shame if
one could no longer use it as such.)

-Peter



From maxm at mxm.dk  Thu Jul 10 05:15:24 2003
From: maxm at mxm.dk (Max M)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 11:15:24 +0200
Subject: Zope problem:  objectValues('Folder')
In-Reply-To: <3F0D2405.1070606@gmx.de>
References: <3F0D11C7.4010805@gmx.de> <3F0D21D4.3040902@mxm.dk> <3F0D2405.1070606@gmx.de>
Message-ID: <3F0D2EAC.2010605@mxm.dk>

Jens Riedel wrote:

> Max M schrieb:
> 
>>> <ul>
>>> <dtml-in expr="objectValues('Folder')">
>>> <li><a href="&dtml-absolute_url;"><dtml-var title_or_id></a></li><br>
>>> </dtml-in>
>>> </ul>
> 
> 
>> If you have written it exactly like that, it should work. You have no 
>> folders inside the folder you are running it in then.
> 
> 
> That's my problem. I followed the instructions of the Zope Book example 
> exactly and created 3 folders in the folder I use the 
> objectValues()-method on.


hmmm ... it is not a zope problem. objectValues() works!

try

<ul>
   <dtml-in objectValues>
     <li>&dtml-meta_type;</li>
   </dtml-in>
</ul>


That should give a hint.

regards Max M




From bignose-hates-spam at and-benfinney-does-too.id.au  Thu Jul 31 22:39:07 2003
From: bignose-hates-spam at and-benfinney-does-too.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: 1 Aug 2003 12:29:07 +0950
Subject: A very simple question
References: <vijfpqokte2s60@corp.supernews.com> <slrnbijg4i.ejq.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>
Message-ID: <slrnbijlrr.ejq.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>

On 1 Aug 2003 10:51:22 +0950, Ben Finney wrote:
> If you want attributes that are bound to a particular instance, set
> them in the class's __init__() method.

    s/to a particular instance/to each instance/

-- 
 \        "If you ever drop your keys into a river of molten lava, let |
  `\              'em go, because, man, they're gone."  -- Jack Handey |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney <http://bignose.squidly.org/>



From sismex01 at hebmex.com  Fri Jul  4 15:08:04 2003
From: sismex01 at hebmex.com (sismex01 at hebmex.com)
Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 14:08:04 -0500 
Subject: Python is a gem, you need to keep pushing it ....
Message-ID: <F7DB8D13DB61D511B6FF00B0D0F06233054E685A@mail.hebmex.com>

> From: Peter Hansen [mailto:peter at engcorp.com] 
> Sent: Viernes, 04 de Julio de 2003 01:11 p.m.
> 
> Peter Hansen wrote:
> > 
> > sismex01 at hebmex.com wrote:
> > >
> > > > From: Peter Hansen [mailto:peter at engcorp.com]
> > > > Sent: Viernes, 04 de Julio de 2003 07:42 a.m.
> > > >
> > > > delphiro wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > [attribution removed... don't do that!]
> > > > > > Python *is* great but lets not pretend that its a good
> > > > > > fit for every problem.
> > > > >
> > > > > I doubt that (unless you develop hardware drivers).
> > > >
> > > > Are you saying that you think Python _is_ a good fit
> > > > for every problem, excluding only hardware drivers?
> > > >
> > > > -Peter
> > > >
> > >
> > > Seems like he is; in my experience Python has been flexible
> > > enough to fit any problem I've tossed at it.
> > 
> > As it has for me, but neither you nor I have thrown *every*
> > problem at it, and the OP appears to be stating that he believes
> > we would never find Python inadequate, no matter what we threw
> > at it (exception hardware drivers again).
> > 
> > As an example, one could argue that embedded systems are not
> > merely "hardware drivers" (one could also argue that they are,
> > but I do not), yet we've found Python suitable in only one
> > of our embedded system products.
> 
> Thus contradicting myself, of course. :-)  What I meant to say
> was "I know what you mean, since I've found it highly suitable
> as well, but no one with good experience in computing could 
> reasonably claim it will fit *all* problems except hardware drivers."
> 
> -Peter
>

Specially since Pypy is going to address some of those problems
which make Python not suitable for drivers; they it's going to
be *the* right answer for "What language?".

;-)

-gustavo
Advertencia:La informacion contenida en este mensaje es confidencial y
restringida, por lo tanto esta destinada unicamente para el uso de la
persona arriba indicada, se le notifica que esta prohibida la difusion de
este mensaje. Si ha recibido este mensaje por error, o si hay problemas en
la transmision, favor de comunicarse con el remitente. Gracias.




From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Thu Jul  3 20:31:08 2003
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 3 Jul 2003 20:31:08 -0400
Subject: A story about Python... sort of
References: <3f03f430$0$97222$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk> <dGZMa.5172$351.1725266@twister.nyc.rr.com> <mailman.1057259346.26179.python-list@python.org> <Yg3Na.97773$R73.11565@sccrnsc04>
Message-ID: <be2hsc$41l$1@panix3.panix.com>

In article <Yg3Na.97773$R73.11565 at sccrnsc04>,
Russell Reagan <rreagan at attbi.com> wrote:
>
>There is a rather large industry which I'll call "computer games" that
>is rather CPU intensive, and AFAIK the vast majority of those games are
>written in C/C++. It really depends on the definition of "application
>level". If we're only including things like word processors and web
>browsers in the "application level", then there isn't a great need for
>C++ in the "application level", but there are certainly areas where
>speed and memory efficiency is important.

At the same time, more and more of those games are switching to using
C/C++ only for the rendering engine and using a scripting language (Lua
or Python) for the gameplay itself.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

Usenet is not a democracy.  It is a weird cross between an anarchy and a
dictatorship.  



From duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk  Wed Jul 16 09:18:18 2003
From: duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk (Duncan Booth)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 13:18:18 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Python Quiz
References: <84fc4588.0307152253.20858619@posting.google.com> <Xns93BA6E5A0FA08duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <Xns93BA90BD6A3AEduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

Duncan Booth <duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk> wrote in 
news:Xns93BA6E5A0FA08duncanrcpcouk at 127.0.0.1:

> On question 8, I'm not aware that Python borrowed anything from Java.

Researching beyond Google reveals that the current class syntax dates from 
Python 0.9.4, December 1991. Since Java was released in 1995 it would 
definitely seem to be wrong to claim that Python gets "object orientation 
concepts" from Java.

-- 
Duncan Booth                                             duncan at rcp.co.uk
int month(char *p){return(124864/((p[0]+p[1]-p[2]&0x1f)+1)%12)["\5\x8\3"
"\6\7\xb\1\x9\xa\2\0\4"];} // Who said my code was obscure?



From lorenb2 at bezeqint.net  Sun Jul 27 19:18:18 2003
From: lorenb2 at bezeqint.net (Bill Loren)
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 01:18:18 +0200
Subject: List Question
References: <001e01c3548d$bed5a420$6400a8c0@EVOD31> <20030728111954.GA20253@dave@alana.ucc.usyd.edu.au>
Message-ID: <005001c35495$5d3f5dc0$6400a8c0@EVOD31>

Thanks all,
and again, accept my apologizes for the stupid question...
*blushed* B


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dave Harrison" <dave at nullcube.com>
To: "Bill Loren" <lorenb2 at bezeqint.net>
Sent: Monday, July 28, 2003 1:19 PM
Subject: Re: List Question


> ah ... a perl coder ;-) *chuckle*
> 
> len(heck_of_a_list)
> 
> will give you the length of the list
> 
> Bill Loren (lorenb2 at bezeqint.net):
> > Hello,
> > 
> > Forgive my python newbieness.
> > Assume I have a list named heck_of_a_list.
> > how would I extract the number of elements out of it ?
> > (I'm looking for something like perl's $#heck_of_a_list operand)
> > 
> > thanks
> > B
> >






From irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl  Sun Jul 13 15:00:23 2003
From: irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 21:00:23 +0200
Subject: How to crash Python in 1 easy step (python 2.2.2)
In-Reply-To: <2e363c08.0307130944.4c470bc3@posting.google.com>
References: <2e363c08.0307130944.4c470bc3@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3f11ac45$0$49101$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

Paul Miller wrote:

> I'm not sure if this is a python bug or a bug in an associated
> library, and I'm not even sure how to correctly report it, but here is
>   Anytime python is accepting keyboard input, whether it's with
> raw_input, or sitting on the command line waiting for the user to type
> code, you can crash python by holding ctrl+shift and then pressing
> enter.
> 
> This is on a RedHat 9.0 system running on an Athlon 600.  Basically
> everything about the system is standard except for what's been updated
> by RedHat itself.  If anyone who has the time and ability to track
> down this bug needs more information, please email me.

I doubt it is a problem in Python, it works nicely on both my
windows and my linux machines (python 2.2.3).

Just a gut feeling: reinstall/upgrade your readline library.....

--Irmen




From anton at vredegoor.doge.nl  Tue Jul 29 20:29:43 2003
From: anton at vredegoor.doge.nl (Anton Vredegoor)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 02:29:43 +0200
Subject: spaces on idles last line
Message-ID: <bg73u7$p2n$1@news.hccnet.nl>

If editing a script with another editor than Idle (f.e. Scite)
sometimes there are spaces left on the last line. If such a script is
run from the Scite command line with f.e. "pythonw -u idlespace1.py"
the script runs fine. However if next the script is run from Idle,
there is the following error:

Python 2.3b1 (#40, Apr 25 2003, 19:06:24) [MSC v.1200 32 bit (Intel)]
on win32
Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
IDLE 0.8 -- press F1 for help
>>> 
IndentationError: unindent does not match any outer indentation level
(idlespace1.py, line 6)

the script:
<start script>
def test():
    print "hi"

if __name__=='__main__':
    test()
   <end script>

Note that there is no empty last line in this script: the last line
contains spaces.

A syntaxerror is also possible:

>>> 
  File "xxxx\xxxx\idlespace2.py", line 2
    
    ^
SyntaxError: invalid syntax

The script that caused the error above:
<start script)
print "hi"
 <end script>

Saving a script with Idle repairs it immediately, because Idle
automagically adds an empty last line, however a "check module" from
Idle's menu doesn't detect the error. This made it difficult to even
write a script to find out what caused it. 

Is there a reason for Idle being stricter than its own checks?
 
Anton.



From ronald at PassTheDairy.net  Thu Jul  3 13:00:21 2003
From: ronald at PassTheDairy.net (BearMan)
Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 17:00:21 GMT
Subject: A story about Python... sort of
References: <3f03f430$0$97222$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk> <KwWMa.3332$Aw.3042@twister.nyc.rr.com> <3F043B22.19FE79AE@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <FiZMa.2097$_k2.145814@nnrp1.ptd.net>

Not to mention all the time spent recompiling through out the debugging and
troubleshooting process. Has Max ever programmed in Python? How about
Assembly?

The fact of the matter is there is no such thing as one ULTIMATE language. A
real programmer will have mastered several languages so as to integrate the
best features for any given situation.

IMHO



"Peter Hansen" <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message
news:3F043B22.19FE79AE at engcorp.com...
> Max Khesin wrote:
> >
> > import flame.*
> > import sorry.*
> > Ok, with all my respect to python, the stuff about C++ is a bunch of
hooey.
> > Compilation time is the problem? Give me a break.
> > 1) separate compilation?
> > 2) precompiled headers?
> > 3) tools that allow cluster compilation?
> > 4) ever read 'large-scale c++ development' by Lacos? a must for large
c++
> > project. letter-envelope idiom to help compilation...etc.
>
> Sounds to me that if they've come up with so many and such a wide
> range of optimizations to improve compilation time, then it clearly *is*
> a problem...
>
> > Anyway, if you are coding so fast that compilation time becomes a
serious
> > problem you are either
> > a) the smartest and fastest programmer on earth
> > b) are not thinking enough
>
> c) doing test-driven development
>
> I admit to not having done any C++ code for several years, certainly not
> since adopting TDD, but I would guess for a sizable project the
compilation
> and link times could become a major annoyance
>
> -Peter





From dion_mart at hotmail.com  Mon Jul 21 01:48:57 2003
From: dion_mart at hotmail.com (Martin Dion)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 05:48:57 GMT
Subject: Needing help with sockets
Message-ID: <Xns93BF12F42BDB3dionMartHotmail@205.237.233.52>

Hi

i'm relatively new to python and I need help with a little program i 
wrote

What i want to do:

I want to be able to connect on any port on a system and then send and 
receive commands, by following the protocol rules.

If I receive data, it must print on the screen.

It asks for data to send in reply to the data received.

Once data is sent, it must look if there is data to receive and if not, 
it must ask the user to send an other string.


The problem, is that once data is sent, it goes to the receive data loop 
and blocks until it gets data.





I read a little on non-blocking sockets, but i am not sure if it is what 
i should look for

I heard about timed sockets (maybe it could work, but i am unsure)

=========================================================================
import socket

remote = raw_input('To wich host:')
port = input('To wich port:')

#remote = "192.168.0.2"
#port = 22

while 1: # entering software main loop
  
    s = socket.socket(socket.AF_INET, socket.SOCK_STREAM) # creating 
socket
    print "\nConnecting to:",remote,":",port


    s.connect((remote, port))
    print "\nConnected to:",remote,":",port

    while 1: #Net main loop
    
        while 1: #receiving data
        
            data = s.recv(1000)
            print data
            if len(data) < 1000: break #no more data to get so break

        toSend = raw_input("Data to Send:")
        if toSend == "!QUIT" :break
        s.sendall(toSend)

        
    s.close()
    del s
        




From mis6 at pitt.edu  Mon Jul  7 18:46:05 2003
From: mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato)
Date: 7 Jul 2003 15:46:05 -0700
Subject: Using Loops to track user input
References: <bea0p6$17f$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <mailman.1057535661.11061.python-list@python.org> <beaeoj$jo4$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <2259b0e2.0307071446.4ab54303@posting.google.com>

hokiegal99 <hokiegal99 at hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<beaeoj$jo4$1 at solaris.cc.vt.edu>...
> Perl's motto is "there's more than one way to do it," right? Well, after 
> reading all of these responses, I think Python could make the same 
> claim. Thanks again guys!
> 
> 
> Bob Gailer wrote:
> 
> > Not to neglect the 1-liner:
> > 
> > import operator; reduce(operator.add,[int(raw_input("Number>")) for i in 
> > range(10)])
> > 
> > Bob Gailer
> > bgailer at alum.rpi.edu
> > 303 442 2625

Nowadays even shorter:

sum([int(raw_input("Number>")) for i in range(10)])

;)



From torsten.will at epost.de  Sat Jul  5 13:46:56 2003
From: torsten.will at epost.de (Torsten Will)
Date: Sat, 05 Jul 2003 19:46:56 +0200
Subject: sqlrelay
Message-ID: <3f070ec0$0$13370$9b77ed8b@news.comundo.de>

http://sqlrelay.sourceforge.net/




From jjl at pobox.com  Sat Jul  5 12:32:13 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 05 Jul 2003 17:32:13 +0100
Subject: Bewildered graphs
References: <3F06BF7C.8DC6A978@noaa.gov>
Message-ID: <87vfuhkk8i.fsf@pobox.com>

Mark Fenbers <Mark.Fenbers at noaa.gov> writes:

> I am investigating Python for the sake of ultimately generating
> hydrographs (such as this:
> http://ahps.erh.noaa.gov/iln/ahps/RiverDat/gifs/prgo1.png)
> on-the-fly from a web server cluster.  I have not used Python
> previously and do not yet know if Python is very useful for this or
> if I am wasting my time.

I've done a lot of plotting with Python in the past.  The issue is
really which plotting package(s) you pick rather than anything to do
with Python itself (and nobody here is likely to argue with your
choice of language, of course!).


> Quite frankly, I am a little bewildered.  Not only is there Python,
> but there are many extention modules which cloud up my view as to
> what I will need.

Certainly a year or two ago there was no single free plotting package
around (Python or no Python) that was everything I needed -- and I was
usually plotting pretty straightforward graphs.  Things may have
improved a bit since then, but I certainly think it's worth
considering using a commercial package (from Python).  Presumably you
already use a package of some kind to plot these things?  Most
commercial packages seem to have an API of some sort, so try googling
for a Python binding for it -- one may well already exist.

Otherwise, I'm out of date so can't give you a simple 'use this', but
in general:

Just to confuse you further, another option is to use a generic
plotting library, rather than one designed specifically for graphs.
If the format of your graphs isn't going to change, that might be a
reasonable choice.  You end up with more code, but you avoid having to
figure out how to tickle exactly what you want out of a reluctant
plotting package.  In particular, you can be sure you won't get stuck
in the 'so far and no further' situation that graphing packages can
leave you in.

I'd probably first run though the demos that invariably come with the
graphing packages, and if it wasn't fairly obvious that a) all the
necessary features were there in one of them and b) reasonably clear
the example code / docs c) lightweight enough not to bring your web
server to its knees, I'd try a generic plotting library.  Ordered by
my guess of most appropriate first: PIL, PIDDLE, reportlab (nicer API
than PIDDLE; pdf output, but you could probably convert to .png easily
enough), plotutils, sketch.

Of the graph plotting packages, some that should get the job done:

Grace (grace_np.py)
 API documentation poor last time I looked, but does everything you
 could want, and has a (rather nasty) GUI interface too, so you can
 tweak graphs for publication.  If load on the web server is high, it
 might be too heavyweight, though.

DISLIN (pxDislin)
 You probably want the pxDislin binding, not the one distributed with
 DISLIN itself.

Chaco
 Haven't used this.  Probably a nice API, but looks like it's still
 not very capable.

Lots of others too, I'm afraid: PLPLOT, PGPLOT, gnuplot, Qwt,
scigraphica...


> There's Scientific Python, which sounds promising, but there's also
> SciPy which

I haven't used the plotting software from either (I don't think
Scientific Python had any plotting code when I used it).  In general,
they do different things.  One obvious difference is that Scientific
Python is (mostly, at least) new, pure Python code, where SciPy wraps
a lot of old, well-tested Fortan, C and C++ code (but no doubt there's
a fair amount of pure Python code there too).  Both approaches have
pros and cons, and the particular codes in SciPy and Scientific Python
have different objectives, of course.


John



From gh at ghaering.de  Tue Jul  8 16:40:56 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 22:40:56 +0200
Subject: Newbie - Directory/File Creation
In-Reply-To: <68a42404.0307081209.4baafd5@posting.google.com>
References: <68a42404.0307081209.4baafd5@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3F0B2C58.1070405@ghaering.de>

Michael J Whitmore wrote:
> If I do the following, a file is created in the current working
> directory:
>     TestFile = open("TestTest.out", 'w') 
> 
> My question is how to create a file that includes a pathname without
> having to mkdir beforehand.
>     Example:
>     TestFile = open("TestDir\TestTest.out", 'w')

If you want to have a backslash in a string, you have to double it, 
because the backslash is an escape character in Python strings. So this 
would be:

TestFile = open("TestDir\\TestTest.out", 'w')

Alternatively, you can use a raw string:

TestFile = open(r"TestDir\TestTest.out", 'w')

or just use a forward slash, which works fine on Windows as well:

TestFile = open(r"TestDir/TestTest.out", 'w')

or, to be politically correct, you can use:

import os
TestFile = open(os.path.join("TestDir", TestTest.out"), 'w')

> Shouldn't open be smart enough to create the TestDir directory before
> creating TestTest.out   ?

No, explicit is better than implicit. [1]

> Is there another command that will do this?

Sure, os.mkdir.

-- Gerhard

[1] Try "import this" at an interactive Python prompt for this and more 
Python Zen :-)




From hokiegal99 at hotmail.com  Sat Jul  5 14:24:42 2003
From: hokiegal99 at hotmail.com (hokiegal99)
Date: Sat, 05 Jul 2003 14:24:42 -0400
Subject: Calculating Year, Month and Day of Life
In-Reply-To: <be72ph$k60$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
References: <be72ph$k60$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <be74tp$pi4$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>

hokiegal99 wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> I am a funeral director trying to write a small program that calculates 
> the number of years, months and days a person has lived by entering the 
> year, month and day of their birth. This is what I have so far:
> 
> #---------------------
> from time import *
> local = localtime()
> 
> print "Enter the year of birth:"; y = input()
> print "Enter the month of birth:"; m = input()
> print "Enter the day of birth:"; d = input()
> 
> age = y,m,d
> print age
> print local
> #----------------------
> 
> The output looks similiar to this:
> (1934, 2, 7)
> (2003, 7, 5, 13, 20, 0, 5, 186, 1)
> 
> My problem is that localtime is a list of 9 integers while age is a list 
> of 3 integers. Is it possible to make localtime() only return the first 
> 3 integers? If so, how would I then do calculations on the two lists' 
> individual parts? For example, how would I instruct localtime() to 
> subtract the first integer from age's list from the first intger in its 
> own list (2003 - 1934)?
> 
> Also, I am new to python, but I like it a lot and have picked it up 
> quickly. If my approach to this solving this problem is completely 
> wrong, please point me in the right direction.
> 
> Thanks in advance!!!
> 

Sorry to respond to my own post, but I answered the first part of my 
question by experimenting a bit. I pulled the first 3 integers from 
localtime() like this:

local = localtime()
print local[:3]
(2003, 7, 5)




From logiplex at qwest.net  Mon Jul 21 14:07:45 2003
From: logiplex at qwest.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: 21 Jul 2003 11:07:45 -0700
Subject: Threading Pool Event()
In-Reply-To: <41c203e.0307202301.64022dca@posting.google.com>
References: <0tRRa.212$vD1.8077@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au>
	 <bf8ri5$cs7$1@panix1.panix.com> <NDZRa.273$vD1.11889@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au>
	 <mailman.1058567369.23096.python-list@python.org>
	 <41c203e.0307202301.64022dca@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1058810865.2717.96.camel@software1.logiplex.internal>

On Mon, 2003-07-21 at 00:01, Anand wrote:
> What if you want to make sure that there are exactly
> 'n' threads in the queue a given moment ? 

Why not simply start 'n' threads and have them wait on the queue?

> I had a problem of a similar kind, which I solved by
> deriving a "Thread monitor" class from Queue. I initialized
> the Queue with a given size (the number of threads in it
> a given moment, the number 'n' above). But, I found that
> this does not happen accurately as I wanted. I solved
> it by using a non-blocking queue and managing the exception
> by using an Event and by using my own locks.

You keep saying "threads in the queue".  Why are you putting the threads
in the queue?  Usually the threads run independently and get their
*work* from the queue.  Part of the reason for having a pool of threads
(aside from controlling the number of active threads) is to avoid the
overhead of starting new threads.  By putting threads on the queue and
starting them when there's work to do you lose this benefit.

> The code would look something like this ...
> It uses a polling mechanism with sleeping.

Polling + sleeping seems bad for most applications.  Polling when
there's nothing to do is a waste of CPU, sleeping when there's work to
be done adds latency.  Combining the two is the worst of both worlds
(again qualifying the statement for the general case).

Looking at the code you posted, it isn't clear to me why you would take
this approach.  It appears to me that your fundamental flaw is thinking
that the *threads* must be put on the queue rather than the data the
threads will act on and the problems you faced resulted from that
misunderstanding.

If you disagree, then perhaps you could give an example of an
application that would require this type of approach versus the
traditional producer/pool-of-consumers setup.

Regards,

-- 
Cliff Wells, Software Engineer
Logiplex Corporation (www.logiplex.net)
(503) 978-6726  (800) 735-0555





From simonb at webone.com.au  Tue Jul 29 18:31:47 2003
From: simonb at webone.com.au (Simon Burton)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 08:31:47 +1000
Subject: inverse of the zip function
References: <9sBVa.12998$o%2.6289@sccrnsc02> <wdCVa.118$7h6.110@nwrdny03.gnilink.net>
Message-ID: <pan.2003.07.29.22.31.46.551258@webone.com.au>

On Tue, 29 Jul 2003 22:06:20 +0000, Raymond Hettinger wrote:

> "David C. Fox" <davidcfox at post.harvard.edu> wrote in message
> news:9sBVa.12998$o%2.6289 at sccrnsc02...
>> Is there a function which takes a list of tuples and returns a list of
>> lists made up of the first element of each tuple, the second element of
>> each tuple, etc.?
>>
>> In other words, the the inverse of the built-in zip function?
> 
> When used with the * operator, zip() is its own inverse:
> 

This (obviously) doesn't work when z has length 0 or 2.
I don't quite understand why zip is overloaded ...

Oh, hang on, it does work for length 2! that's neat-o,
and perhaps that's why zip was extended. Is it a functional programming
convention, i wonder.

Simon.




From vze4rx4y at verizon.net  Tue Jul 22 11:47:32 2003
From: vze4rx4y at verizon.net (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 15:47:32 GMT
Subject: Python Mystery Theatre -- Episode 3:  Extend this
References: <tH5Ta.24164$7O.4744@nwrdny01.gnilink.net> <mailman.1058873914.30294.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <o0dTa.25868$7O.16185@nwrdny01.gnilink.net>

[Steven Taschuk]
> > ACT VI -----------------------------------------
> > print "What is the technical name for this algorithm or transformation?"
>   [...]
>
> Heh.  Nice one.
>
> The technical name is "the identity transformation".


Ding ding! We have a winner.

Others thought the i,j swap was suspicious but did
not put the finger on left-to-right assignment undermining
the whole selection sort to make it do nothing at all.


Raymond Hettinger





From pw-google at terlkin.org  Mon Jul 14 13:06:38 2003
From: pw-google at terlkin.org (Peter Wilkinson)
Date: 14 Jul 2003 10:06:38 -0700
Subject: Problem with MySQLdb on Mac OS X...
References: <110720032317344670%candiazoo@mac.com> <mailman.1058024298.17294.python-list@python.org> <120720032321075007%candiazoo@mac.com>
Message-ID: <3344b1fa.0307140325.67be7b8c@posting.google.com>

"Michael S. Jessop" <candiazoo at mac.com> wrote in message news:<120720032321075007%candiazoo at mac.com>...
> [[ This message was both posted and mailed: see
>    the "To," "Cc," and "Newsgroups" headers for details. ]]
> 
> I tried supplying host as well, same error.    :/   Something is hosed. 
> I guess I could try reinstalling.  I really want to get this to work. 
> I am trying to write a maintenance program for my wife, so she can
> remotely modify the database containing information about her artwork,
> distribution lists, etc.
> 

I've just sorted out the problem on my machine and it appeared to be a
set of include files from a previous install of MySQL that were
sitting in /usr/include, once I removed that and rebuilt with setup.py
pointing to the Fink include paths it works fine.

Peter.



From intentionally at blank.co.uk  Sun Jul 13 09:56:18 2003
From: intentionally at blank.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 14:56:18 +0100
Subject: anything like C++ references?
References: <000301c348c7$3c501980$21795418@dell1700> <mailman.1058062578.6658.python-list@python.org> <u432hvkg62vsoela63f45e5pj144ehf7qe@4ax.com> <mailman.1058097105.20488.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <5tn2hvgjqlqg1qs7omvugpvm62cuso261k@4ax.com>

On Sun, 13 Jul 2003 05:50:46 -0600, Dave Brueck
<dave at pythonapocrypha.com> wrote:

>On Sunday 13 July 2003 01:41 am, Tom Plunket wrote:

>> In C++ it's trivial to return multiple values
>
>Trivial but non-intuitive until you convince yourself "that's the way it is", 
>perhaps. :) What I mean is this: when you're just starting out you learn that 
>functions can return values like this:
>
>int foo(int a, int b)
>{
>  return a + b;
>}
>
>But the method for returning more than one thing is not a simple progression 
>from this pattern. Instead you learn and shift to a *completely* different 
>mechanism. In Python, however, you *can* continue along the original route as 
>well:
>
>def foo(a, b, c):
>  return a+b, b+c

You are not directly returning multiple values - you are returning a
tuple. You can return containers in C++ too. The only difference is
that Python makes working with tuples *much* easier - but its no more
a 'simple progression' than in C++. You still need to know about
tuples as well as returning values.

>> > IOW, if you could erase the influence of previous languages would
>> > this FAQ become "how can I return multiple things from a
>> > function" more often than it would become "how can I modify an
>> > object from inside a function"?

There's more to it than this.

Take the Pascal family of languages. These have an explicit
distinction between functions and procedures which is hidden in C and
Python.

In my view, the distinction between a procedure (an imperative tool
which may modify parameters in place) and a function (which returns a
value but - normally, at least - leaves its parameters unmodified) is
a useful one. Writing code to respect these conventions, even when the
language doesn't explicitly support it, has considerable benefits -
evaluation order in expressions becomes much less of an issue, for
instance, effectively eliminating at least one source of subtle
hard-to-trace errors.

Which suggests a new 'procedure' syntax for Python, either
automatically treating all parameters as references or providing a
syntax equivalent to the Pascal 'var'.




From pyth at devel.trillke.net  Tue Jul  8 14:28:52 2003
From: pyth at devel.trillke.net (holger krekel)
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 20:28:52 +0200
Subject: path module
In-Reply-To: <1057686623.3738.62.camel@lothlorien>; from ianb@colorstudy.com on Tue, Jul 08, 2003 at 12:50:23PM -0500
References: <1057651068.5348.386.camel@lothlorien> <20030708113219.H6906@prim.han.de> <1057686623.3738.62.camel@lothlorien>
Message-ID: <20030708202852.J6906@prim.han.de>

Ian Bicking wrote:
> On Tue, 2003-07-08 at 04:32, holger krekel wrote:
> > I agree that something like Jason Orendorff's path module should go into
> > the standard library.  I've coded a similar module and i think that
> > a discussion about certain design decisions would probably improve our
> > approaches. 
> > 
> > For example Jason lets the "path" object inherit from "str" (or unicode)
> > but i think it's better to provide a "__str__" method so that you can say
> > 
> >     str(pathinstance).endswith('.py')
> > 
> > and *not* base the path object on str/unicode. 
> > 
> >     unicode(pathinstance)
> > 
> > would just fail if your platform doesn't support this.  First, i tried
> > the inheritance approach, btw, but it is ambigous (e.g. for the
> > join-method (str.join and os.path.join).  
> 
> I'm starting to think the same thing.  Not so much because of join, but
> because it doesn't actually offer many advantages.  Many methods that
> look for a filename will be using "type(arg) is type('')", so you'd have
> to pass a real string object in anyway -- and people who say "but you
> should use isinstance(arg, str)" are obviously forgetting that you
> couldn't do this not very long ago, and lots of code uses type
> comparison at this point.

right.  Also i prefer my objects to not have a "polluted" namespace. 

> > Also, my module provides most of the os.path.* methods as "filters" so
> > you can say
> > 
> >     dirs = filter(isdir, list_obj_pathobjects)
> >     fnames = filter(AND(nolink, isfile), list_obj_pathobjects)
> > 
> > in addition to
> > 
> >     pathobject.isfile()
> >     etc.
> 
> That's not necessary with list comprehension, since you can just do:
> 
> [p for p in list_obj_pathobjects if p.isdir()]

but i use the same idea (filter-functions) for more advanced walkers:

    p = path('/music')
    for i in p.filterwalk(AND(nolink, isfile, isplayable, match(repattern))):
        play_mp3(i)

where filterwalk is a generator because i don't want the playscript to 
first try to gather *all* files for obvious reasons (as would happen with 
list comprehension).  This has proven to be incredibly useful and easy to
read (if you don't engange in list-comprehension <-> functional-style
wars).  Just because Guido somewhat dislikes "functional support" like
lambda, map, filter and friends to be in the __builtin__ module 
doesn't mean it's bad :-)

cheers,

    holger




From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Wed Jul 30 11:57:48 2003
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 10:57:48 -0500
Subject: funny  slashdot quote regarding python 2.3 release
In-Reply-To: <3f27b0a9$0$49104$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl> (Irmen de Jong's
 message of "Wed, 30 Jul 2003 13:48:56 +0200")
References: <3f279da0$0$13799$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net>
	<3f27b0a9$0$49104$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <m2wue0xb0j.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

>>>>> "Irmen" == Irmen de Jong <irmen at nl.homeip.net> writes:

    Irmen> And let's not forget that time-critical code can very well
    Irmen> be written in a high-performance C extension module.

We recently had a physicist visit to show us how to do some
calculations and analyses he had developed, and he brought with him a
bunch of FORTRAN code he developed to do the calculations.  At first I
wrapped them with f2py (unbelievably easy!) but then just decided to
reimplement them in Numeric since they were amenable to array
processing.  I found that the Numeric version was about 20% faster
than the FORTRAN, in part because there were some inefficiencies in
his hand coded FORTRAN routines.  

Which emphasizes that it's often better to use a well tested,
optimized extension than to code it yourself in a compiled language.
Why reinvent the wheel when you've got a brand new Michelin tire
sitting in the garage?

JDH




From irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl  Sun Jul 13 18:34:48 2003
From: irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 00:34:48 +0200
Subject: =?UTF-8?B?w7HDr8Olw7jDqMOgw6sgw6TDq8O/IMOww67DscOxw6jDqcOxw6o=?=
 =?UTF-8?B?w6jDtSDDr8Oow7LDrsOtw7nDqMOqw67DoikpKQ==?=
In-Reply-To: <3F11BF87.9000208@v.loewis.de>
References: <37d6f77c.0307130932.1e3adf0d@posting.google.com> <3f11ac74$0$49101$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl> <3F11D94A.7050208@removeme.free.fr> <3F11BF87.9000208@v.loewis.de>
Message-ID: <3f11de85$0$49112$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

Martin v. Loewis wrote:

> That's not what he said. Instead, he said
> 
> "?????, ?????????? ??? ??? ??????? ????? ??????(????????, ?????? ???? ? 
> exe-???? ?????????)."
> 
> To see that, you have to read the message in windows-1251.

Wonderful, I can "read" *your* rendition of it... probably because you
posted in UTF-8 :-) The original message was posted in regular latin-1...

> I think this roughly translates into "Can you please tell me where to
> find the proggie freezer (which appears to be needed to create exes)?"

Wow, you apparently understand what Garber wrote, too...

'nuff said
--Irmen




From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Jul 14 18:33:23 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 18:33:23 -0400
Subject: Sio serial module install problem with ActiveState
References: <pan.2003.07.14.21.40.42.609932@zexcite.zcom>
Message-ID: <3F132FB3.CF0E6B44@engcorp.com>

Conrad wrote:
> 
> Greetings,
> 
> I have a need to print from Win98SE to a little
> serial label printer provided by United Parcel, so
> based on Mark Hammond's recommendation in
> 'Programming on Win32' I decided to try the Sio
> module at http://starship.python.net/crew/roger/
> 
> My problem:

Solution to problem (of a sort): don't use SIO module,
which relies on a third-party external DLL.  Instead,
use http://pyserial.sourceforge.net/ or, if that doesn't work use 
http://balder.prohosting.com/ibarona/en/python/uspp/uspp_en.html

-Peter



From oren-py-l at hishome.net  Mon Jul  7 06:34:26 2003
From: oren-py-l at hishome.net (Oren Tirosh)
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 06:34:26 -0400
Subject: sets.filter?
In-Reply-To: <20030625213851.GA4940@nl.linux.org>
References: <20030625213851.GA4940@nl.linux.org>
Message-ID: <20030707103426.GA25393@hishome.net>

On Wed, Jun 25, 2003 at 11:38:51PM +0200, Gerrit Holl wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> would it be a good idea to add a .filter() method to a set object,
> which behaves like the builtin filter() but resulting in a set?
> I often see myself doing sets.Set(filter(f, someset))... Would this
> be a good addition to sets.Set?

Considering the fact that GvR plans to eventually deprecate map and 
filter in favor of list comprehensions I doubt this kind of change would 
be accepted. I suspect his preferred idiom for this would be:

Set([x for x in someset if f(x)])

probably-not-very-good-at-channeling-Guido-ly yours,

   Oren




From david.isal at wanadoo.fr  Fri Jul 11 10:26:19 2003
From: david.isal at wanadoo.fr (David Isal)
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 16:26:19 +0200
Subject: Python extension on Windows
In-Reply-To: <bemf6t$l1r$1@news-reader4.wanadoo.fr>
References: <bemf6t$l1r$1@news-reader4.wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <bemgrh$khf$1@news-reader5.wanadoo.fr>

by the way, i'm using python 2.2.3 and g++ 3.2




From belred1 at yahoo.com  Thu Jul 24 02:13:43 2003
From: belred1 at yahoo.com (Bryan)
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 06:13:43 GMT
Subject: file.close()
References: <edITa.131868$Ph3.17333@sccrnsc04> <3F1F5297.15D768EF@alcyone.com> <slrnbhukr8.13c.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local> <p5JTa.32154$7O.2024@nwrdny01.gnilink.net> <j0KTa.133645$H17.46459@sccrnsc02> <slrnbhusl6.13c.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>
Message-ID: <rOKTa.132882$Ph3.17449@sccrnsc04>

"Ben Finney" <bignose-hates-spam at and-benfinney-does-too.id.au> wrote in
message news:slrnbhusl6.13c.bignose-hates-spam at iris.polar.local...
> On Thu, 24 Jul 2003 05:20:15 GMT, Bryan wrote:
> >>     filelist = []
> >>     try:
> >>         filelist.append(open(filename[0]))
> >>         filelist.append(open(filename[1]))
> >>         ...
> >>         do_something(filelist)
> >>     finally:
> >>         for f in filelist:
> >>             f.close()
> >
> > erik, carl... thanks... this is exactly what i was looking for
>
> The only substantial difference I see between this and what you
> originally posted, is that there is only one 'try...finally' block for
> all the file open/close operations.  Is this what you were wanting
> clarified?
>

well, it wasn't exactly clarification as much as seeing another more
scalable solution.  i know a lot of people don't explicitly close files in
python, but i always do even for small scripts.

thanks again,

bryan





From bokr at oz.net  Mon Jul 21 00:03:39 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 21 Jul 2003 04:03:39 GMT
Subject: A challenge to the ASCII proponents.
References: <mailman.1058665173.19987.python-list@python.org> <3F1AAC0A.7A6326B@hotmail.com> <d13e4243.0307201756.6195e08a@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bffomr$gdm$0@216.39.172.122>

On 20 Jul 2003 18:56:51 -0700, steve at cyber.com.au (Steven D'Aprano) wrote:

>Alan Kennedy <alanmk at hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<3F1AAC0A.7A6326B at hotmail.com>...
>> Alan Kennedy:
>> 
>> > The final point I'd like to make [explicit] is: nobody had to ask
>> > me how or why my xml snippet worked: there were no tricks. Nobody
>> > asked for debugging information, or for reasons why they couldn't
>> > see it:
>
>Sorry Alan, but when I follow your instructions and save your XML to
>disk and open it in Opera 6.01 on Win 98, I get this:
>
>XML parsing failed: not well-formed (1:0)
>
>At least it renders visibly in my browser, although I don't think its
>rendering the way you wished. <grin>
>
>(For the record, this is the contents of the XML file, triple-quoted
>for your convenience:
>"""<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?>
><verb>&#x3b3;&#x3af;&#x3b3;&#x3bd;&#x3c9;&#x3c3;&#x3ba;&#x3c9;</verb>""")
>
>
>[snip]
>> In summary:
>> 
>> 1. I managed to make a greek word, using the original greek glyphs,
>> appear on everyone's "rendering surface", by posting a 7-bit clean XML
>> snippet. Another poster widened the software coverage even further by
>> posting a 7-bit clean HTML snippet. Both of our 7-bit markup snippets
>> travelled safely throughout the entirety of UseNet, including all the
>> 7-bit relays and gateways.
>
>I couldn't see either rendered correctly in either Opera's newsreader
>or the Google archive.
>
>> 2. The only other person who managed it, without using markup, was
>> Martin von Loewis, who is so good at this stuff that he confidently
>> makes statements like "what I did was right: it was Google that got it
>> wrong". Martin used the UTF-8 character set, i.e. a non-ASCII,
>> non-7-bit-clean character set, to achieve this. Although I'm sure
>> Martin could have managed it with UTF-7 as well.
>
>Martin's effort did work for me in Opera's newsreader, but not in the
>Google Groups archive. But we already knew that Google broke it.
>
>> 3. If anybody else was willing to give it a try, they don't seem to
>> have had enough confidence in their knowledge of encodings, MIME,
>> transports, NNTP, etc, etc, to have actually hit the "send" button, in
>> case it didn't work. Which doesn't bode well for the average person in
>> the street: if the technology specialists in this newsgroup don't feel
>> in command of the issue, what hope for everyone else?
>
>Exactly. Which brings us back to Ben's suggestion: when writing for a
>general audience using unknown systems, stick to ASCII, or at least
>follow your rich text with a description of what your reader should
>see:
>
>"""And I can use Umlauts (???) -- you should see a, o and u all in
>lowercase with two dots on top."""
>
>It's a mess and I despair. It would be nice if everyone used bug-free
>XML-aware newsreaders, browsers and mail clients, but the majority
>don't. That's why I always practice defensive writing whenever I use
>any character I can't see on my keyboard, and spell it out in ASCII.
>That's not very satisfactory, but its better than some random
>percentage of your audience seeing "?????".
>
Here's a way that's been around a while (you have ghostscript, right?)

====< gignooskoo.ps >====================================
gsave 72 72 scale
/Symbol findfont 1.0 scalefont setfont
1.0 10.0 moveto (\147\151\147\156\167\163\153\167) show
showpage grestore
=========================================================


Of course, if you use tools (ms word, pdfwriter) to get that done,
you'll wind up with 24,655 bytes of resources and font info and privacy compromise
instead of 135 bytes of native PS level 1 ;-)

Or a 102-byte one-liner that may not be multipage context friendly, but should show in ghostscript:

/Symbol findfont 72 scalefont setfont 72 720 moveto (\147\151\147\156\167\163\153\167) show showpage

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From jjl at pobox.com  Wed Jul 30 13:52:01 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 30 Jul 2003 18:52:01 +0100
Subject: how best to handle httplib timeouts ?
References: <mnHVa.9399$Oz4.2070@rwcrnsc54> <mailman.1059571376.25384.python-list@python.org> <AhRVa.12480$Oz4.3844@rwcrnsc54>
Message-ID: <87k79zx5q6.fsf@pobox.com>

"Rich" <rich at mchsi.com> writes:
[...]
> outage. The script I have so far connects to the server (using HTTPS) then
> passes a login request for a mailbox and retrieves the Inbox page. It does 5
> different requests in all and sometimes gets stuck on the third or fourth
> request. Running the source code version seems a little better than the one
> compiled with py2exe, and it will often return after what seems like a 2
> minute socket timeout. I've also tried playing with different settings for
> the default socket timeout value but that doesn't seem to help either. (I'm
> running 2.3b2)

1. Get 2.3final (I don't know whether there was a bug fix, but I have
   a vague recollection there was some sort of problem with timeouts
   -- see the python-dev summaries and/or SF bug archive).

2. Check with a tool like ethereal to see exactly where it's getting
   stuck.  If it's DNS, maybe you can do the name lookup(s) once, then
   just use the IP address for subsequent requests.  If not, at least
   you'll know where the problem is.


John



From db3l at fitlinxx.com  Tue Jul 15 11:18:05 2003
From: db3l at fitlinxx.com (David Bolen)
Date: 15 Jul 2003 11:18:05 -0400
Subject: mx.DateTime.Parser.DateFromString('crap')
References: <bejgg6$9nq$1@rzmux02.rz.uni-augsburg.de> <uznjmqtmu.fsf@fitlinxx.com> <451fb248.0307140616.3584c85f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <u3ch7u8cy.fsf@fitlinxx.com>

Sibylle.Koczian at Bibliothek.Uni-Augsburg.de (Sibylle Koczian) writes:

> Exactly. Found this out after posting, of course, except that I
> overlooked the "_date_formats" and typed in everything myself.

I debated doing that myself. Using _date_formats is sort of cheating
since by being named with the leading underscore it's been marked as
an internal use only variable.  But in the scheme of things I'd
probably accept the risk of needing to track it changing over time,
versus keeping a current list of parsers up to date.

-- David



From syver at inout.no  Tue Jul  1 05:51:42 2003
From: syver at inout.no (Syver Enstad)
Date: 01 Jul 2003 11:51:42 +0200
Subject: experience with emacs and python-mode
References: <bdp8gv$2krt$1@otis.netspace.net.au>
Message-ID: <uwuf2o9qp.fsf@inout.no>

"Leo" <leo.broska at NOSPAM.isys.com.au> writes:

> hi all
> 
> i'm new to python and new to the group and i want to develop python with
> emacs :-) i try to use python-mode.el version 4.6.
> does somebody else uses this? 

Yes, been using it for years now. Very nice, but has its quirks, the
most annoying being perhaps that triple quoted strings are not
supported. Well in trivial cases it looks like they are supported
because "" is treated as one string and then the final " is the
beginning of a new string and then " is the end and then "" is an
empty string again.




From pinard at iro.umontreal.ca  Sat Jul 19 09:23:42 2003
From: pinard at iro.umontreal.ca (=?iso-8859-1?q?Fran=E7ois_Pinard?=)
Date: 19 Jul 2003 09:23:42 -0400
Subject: __getitem__ and arguments
In-Reply-To: <10eb079f.0307190110.30deb5b9@posting.google.com>
References: <10eb079f.0307190110.30deb5b9@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <oq7k6e4plt.fsf@titan.progiciels-bpi.ca>

[KanZen]

> >>> class A(object):
>       def __getitem__(self, *args):
>         print len(args)

> >>> a=A()
> >>> a[1, 2, 3]
> 1

> For __getitem__() the arguments become a tuple.  I can't seem to find this
> in the language spec.  Can anybody explain this to me?

Hello, KanZen.

When you write an argument list as `*args', you _always_ get a tuple
of all arguments.  Normally, one writes:

    def __getitem__(self, argument):
        ...

as `__getitem__' only accepts one argument besides `self'.  Of course,
you may well write:

    def __getitem__(self, *arguments):
        ...

but then, `arguments' will always be a 1-tuple in practice, and
`arguments[0]' will contain the actual argument.

This being said, consider the call `a[1, 2, 3]' (it does not look like a
call, but we both know that under the scene, this is calling `__getitem__').
We may be tempted to think that it works a bit the same as an explicit
function call would work, like if it was written `a(1, 2, 3)', and the
confusion might come from there.  Indeed, in `a(1, 2, 3)', there are three
arguments.  `a[1, 2, 3]' is not the same, it calls the `__getattr__' of `a'
with a _single_ argument `1, 2, 3'.  That single argument is really a tuple
itself.

Many Python users like to write tuples as `(1, 2, 3)', using superfluous
parentheses for strange reasons. :-) They would likely write `a[(1, 2, 3)]'
as a way to over-stress that `a[]' accepts only one value within the
brackets.  The writing `a[1, 2, 3]' is very legible because it is less
noisy, and you are right in preferring it.  Yet you have to remember that
`1', `2' and `3' are not to become separate arguments for `__getitem__'.
The single argument will be what was within brackets, that is, a tuple.

-- 
Fran?ois Pinard   http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/~pinard




From adalke at mindspring.com  Wed Jul  2 15:17:13 2003
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 13:17:13 -0600
Subject: splitting a string into 2 new strings
References: <bdue2n$m07$1@aspen.sucs.soton.ac.uk> <vg5jjqcc8d2r1f@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <bdvaqs$r3l$1@slb4.atl.mindspring.net>

trp:
> I'm, assuming that these are chemical compounds, so you're not limited to
> one-character symbols.

The problem is underspecified.  Usually 2-character (or 3-character for some
elements with high atomic number, and not assuming the newer IUPAC names
like "Dubnium", which was also called Unnilpentium (Unp) or, depending on
your political persuasion, Joliotium (Jl) or Hahnium (Ha)) have the first
letter
capitalized and the rest in lower case.

> re_pat = re.compile('([A-Z]+)(\d+)')

So this should be written ([A-Z][A-Za-z]*)(\d+), where I explicitly allow
both lower and upper case trailing letters to be more accepting.  (In some
systems, "CU" is "1 carbon + 1 uranium" and in others it's an alternate way
to
write "1 copper".  Though I suspect it's not allowed in the OP's problem.)

                    Andrew
                    dalke at dalkescientific.com





From jjl at pobox.com  Sat Jul  5 16:47:02 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 05 Jul 2003 21:47:02 +0100
Subject: Bewildered graphs
References: <3F06BF7C.8DC6A978@noaa.gov> <cb035744.0307051121.7bb856fd@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <87k7awk8ft.fsf@pobox.com>

hwlgw at hotmail.com (Will Stuyvesant) writes:
[...]
> You are thinking about generating a .PNG or .JPG or .GIF or something
> like that?
> 
> I have an idea: if your app is running on a web server cluster
> already, how about generating dynamic web pages displaying the graph. 
> You could for example display this whole picture with SVG
[...]
> this.  Note the BIG advantage of such a web application: everybody can
> use it with their browser; no installations, compilations,

I just tried Mozilla Firebird 0.6 and Konqueror 3.1, and neither has
built-in SVG support.


[...]
> I *know* they plan to deprecate the string library.  But most web
> hosting Pythons are still 1.5.2 :-!

They are?  There's still stuff in string that isn't duplicated as
string methods, so that seems unlikely to happen for a long while yet,
if ever.


John



From david.abrahams at rcn.com  Fri Jul  4 02:07:05 2003
From: david.abrahams at rcn.com (David Abrahams)
Date: 3 Jul 2003 23:07:05 -0700
Subject: does lack of type declarations make Python unsafe?
References: <idqrev4h6i3gohg9lp02nci8upj7a818fc@4ax.com> <3EEE3036.1080105@removeme.free.fr> <bresev47pva1a27odt1nlouppj27vh2pe0@4ax.com> <yQzHa.188017$g92.3811402@news2.tin.it> <qgiuev87lhuagv5fs1g5671id61p0mej7k@4ax.com> <a5WHa.197736$g92.4021282@news2.tin.it> <ur85r1mz1.fsf@boost-consulting.com> <c9%Ha.200753$g92.4077297@news2.tin.it> <uy8zy4vzs.fsf@boost-consulting.com> <pNfIa.206219$g92.4232233@news2.tin.it> <ea97dfd9.0306290730.137c6837@posting.google.com> <bdnite$lsg$1@news.hccnet.nl>
Message-ID: <ea97dfd9.0307032207.50123ad0@posting.google.com>

anton at vredegoor.doge.nl (Anton Vredegoor) wrote in message news:<bdnite$lsg$1 at news.hccnet.nl>...
> david.abrahams at rcn.com (David Abrahams) wrote:
>  <700+ LOP>
> >I love a nice jestful debate.  Maybe your whole post is jestful and I
> >failed to recognize it.  It certainly seems to have a derisive tone
> >which makes it hard to see the love.  Where's the love, people?
> >Anyway, if you tell me you didn't mean it that way I'll take your word
> >for it.
> 
> Perhaps not love, to me both you guys are discussing trifles. TDD and
> the source of it, static typing, are both about being satisfied with
> just passing tests, while the really important discussion -for me at
> least- is about aligning the code with ones thoughts, and how to
> accomplish that. 

I think that's *exactly* what I was talking about.  Type declarations
on function parameters help me to align the code with the thoughts I
have about the implicit contract with the function's callers.  In the
process, it makes that contract more explicit.

-Dave



From thomas.nuecker at web.de  Wed Jul  2 08:35:12 2003
From: thomas.nuecker at web.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Thomas_N=FCcker?=)
Date: 2 Jul 2003 05:35:12 -0700
Subject: How to keep a Tkinter-Dialog on top of all other windows?
Message-ID: <4b66f6d2.0307020435.345ff4f1@posting.google.com>

Hi!

I am creating a dialog-box within my application, using tkinter. The
problem is the following: After the dialogbox is started, the main
application window comes again to top and the dialogbox is covered by
the window of the main application and must be "fetched" again via the
taskbar to continue. Is there a way to "force" the dialogbox on top of
all other windows? (I'm using MSWindows and Python22)

The source of my dialogbox-class is the following:

class NumberEntry:
	def __init__(self):
		import Tkinter
		from Tkconstants import RIDGE
		from Tkconstants import BOTH
		from Tkconstants import BOTTOM
		from Tkconstants import ACTIVE
		from Tkconstants import LEFT
		from Tkconstants import W
		from Tkconstants import E
		self.tk = Tkinter.Tk()
		self.tk.title("My Dialog")
		frame = Tkinter.Frame(self.tk, borderwidth=2)
		frame.pack(fill=BOTH,expand=1)
		
		label=Tkinter.Label(frame, text="Telefonnummer:")
		label.pack(fill=BOTH,expand=1)
		
		self.entry = Tkinter.Entry(frame, name="entry")
		self.entry.pack(fill=BOTH,expand=1)
		
		box = Tkinter.Frame()
		w = Tkinter.Button(box, text="OK", width = 10, command=self.OnOk,
default = ACTIVE)
		w.pack(side=LEFT, padx=5, pady=5)
		w = Tkinter.Button(box, text="Cancel", width=10,
command=self.OnCancel)
		w.pack(side=LEFT, padx=5, pady=5)
		box.pack()
                
                # try to keep focus on current dialog box
		self.tk.focus_set()
		self.tk.mainloop()
	def OnOk(self):
		self.result = self.entry.get()
		self.tk.destroy()
	def OnCancel(self):
		self.tk.destroy()
	result = ""



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Thu Jul 31 15:19:01 2003
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 15:19:01 -0400
Subject: Python's biggest compromises
References: <899f842.0307310555.56134f71@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1-ScnVtGQNEx9rSiXTWJkQ@comcast.com>

"Anthony_Barker" <anthony_barker at hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:899f842.0307310555.56134f71 at posting.google.com...
> What to you think python largest compromises are?

A compromise is an in-between position or decision.  Example: wife
wants to go to a horse show, husband to an auto race, so they
compromise and go to a horse race.

> The three that come to my mind are significant whitespace, dynamic
> typing, and that it is interpreted - not compiled.

The first two are end-point positions, not in-between compromises.
The third is a matter of definition and implementation.  CPython
compiles to version-dependent but otherwise portable PyCode.  PyRex,
Weave, and Psyco all compile to C or machine code.

> These three put  python under fire

Anything can bo put under fire by anyone who wants to shoot.

> and cause some large projects to move off python or

This sort of statement remains an opinion or impression until backed
by evidence.

> relegate it to prototyping.

This is one of its intended uses.

> Whitespace is an esthetic preference that make Andrew Hunt and David
> Thomas (of Pragmatic Programmer fame) prefer Ruby.

Evidence?  And I mean evidence that whitespace is *the* reason and not
just a convenient summary of an overall esthetic preference.

In any case, so what?  Different strokes for different folks.  Do they
also use indentation for human readers?  If so, they have assigned
themselves the task of keeping brackets and indents in sync so that
human and machine 'see' the same structure.

I see two good uses for brackets:
1.  machine-generated code never intended for human eyes
2.  redundancy for transmission error detection by a processor that
compares brackets and indents and raises a flag on mismatches.

A compromise in the area of structure indication would be accepting
either brackets or indents or both.

> Yahoo groups moved from python to C due to dynamic typing.

Evidence?  Evidence as to what exactly happened (it is not common
knowledge that I know of) and that any such change was a reasoned
technical decision and not politics.

If memory serves me right, Guido has tried a couple of compromises to
slightly limit dynamicity that he could not see much use for and has
backed off at least partly when current users presented use cases that
the change would break.

> Non-compiled - obviously there are times when performance matters
more
> than other things. Google I believe uses python to prototype (or
used)
> and then turns to c++ for heavy lifting.

This is a simple matter of economic tradeoff.  A week of programmer
time costs roughly the same as, say, a year of pc time.  A roaring
success like Google has hundreds (thousands?) of servers around the
world running the same relatively stable code.  Faster code means
machines not bought, installed, and maintained.  But I imagine that
their main production code is pretty far out on the frequency-of-use
curve.

Terry J. Reedy





From klapotec at chello.at  Thu Jul 31 10:13:33 2003
From: klapotec at chello.at (Christopher Koppler)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 14:13:33 GMT
Subject: [Newbie] FAQ?
References: <bgb4a9$cl0$1@news.newsland.it>
Message-ID: <nv8iivsofvr76bvgnffj45q452ld5smk6d@4ax.com>

On Thu, 31 Jul 2003 15:08:07 +0200, psycho_78 at libero.libero.it (Simone
Finotti) wrote:

>hi all,
>is there a FAQ for this NG?
>

http://www.faqs.org/faqs/by-newsgroup/comp/comp.lang.python.html

Have you heard of Google?


--Christopher



From mwh at python.net  Tue Jul 29 07:58:23 2003
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 11:58:23 GMT
Subject: Documenting properties created by property() properly
References: <bg44so$284j$1@news.cybercity.dk>
Message-ID: <7h3brvdk0je.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

Brian Dam Pedersen <brian.pedersen at mail.danbbs.dk> writes:

> Hi Group
> 
> I'm trying to figure out the proper way to document object properties
> created with property() using the LaTeX styles coming with python. The
> closest thing seems to be \begin{memberdesc}, but that seems like a
> clumsy way to express it. Is there any "official" way to do this ? 

I doubt it.  What is the problem with memberdesc?

Cheers,
mwh

-- 
  LINTILLA:  You could take some evening classes.
    ARTHUR:  What, here?
  LINTILLA:  Yes, I've got a bottle of them.  Little pink ones.
                   -- The Hitch-Hikers Guide to the Galaxy, Episode 12



From Simon.Wittber at perth.maptek.com.au  Wed Jul  9 02:06:00 2003
From: Simon.Wittber at perth.maptek.com.au (Simon Wittber (Maptek))
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 14:06:00 +0800
Subject: Possible to install from CD using distutils?
Message-ID: <20E0F651F8B82F45ABCBACC58A2D995B032AEC@mexper1>

Try this command. It will let you write to a CD drive.

mount -o rw /dev/cdrom /mnt/cdrom

Regards,

Sw.





From grante at visi.com  Wed Jul 23 10:14:14 2003
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 23 Jul 2003 14:14:14 GMT
Subject: python assignment
References: <fbf8d8f2.0307221659.1dd1ac77@posting.google.com> <slrnbhrqtj.9jf.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local> <3f1e92bc$0$161$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <3F1E964E.BFD7513F@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <3f1e9836$0$171$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>

In article <3F1E964E.BFD7513F at engcorp.com>, Peter Hansen wrote:
> Grant Edwards wrote:
>
>>> The examples you gave showed that integers share identity with
>>> other integers of the same value, while floats do not.
>> 
>> I believe that's only true for small integers, isn't it?
> 
> Google finds "LOADI - a fast load instruction for small positive integers 
> (those referenced by the small_ints array in intobject.c)" and checking
> that file is left as an exercise to the reader.  I'm going to blindly
> assume this is directly related to the issue in question... ;-)

I think so.  As others have pointed out, it's an implementation
detail, and the language definition doesn't require
equal-valued integer objects to share identity (nor is it
prohibited). Programs that rely on that behavior are broken.

Python 2.2.2 (#1, Jan 30 2003, 21:26:22) 
[GCC 2.96 20000731 (Red Hat Linux 7.3 2.96-112)] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more
information.
>>> a=2
>>> b=2
>>> print id(a), id(b)
135297000 135297000
>>> a=123456789
>>> b=123456789
>>> print id(a), id(b)
135449020 135449032

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  I invented skydiving
                                  at               in 1989!
                               visi.com            



From bogal2 at comcast.net  Sun Jul 13 16:33:32 2003
From: bogal2 at comcast.net (BogAl)
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 15:33:32 -0500
Subject: Can't install csv parser
References: <MPG.197b80c54e88b1489896a6@news.in.comcast.giganews.com> <3f11ba56$0$6532$afc38c87@sisyphus.news.be.easynet.net>
Message-ID: <MPG.197b8c26ad33253e9896a7@news.in.comcast.giganews.com>

Thanks for the reply, Bernard....

> Mmh...works for me - ActivePython 2.2.2
> Are you sure you downloaded the pyd file corresponding to
> your python version?

Yes, Python 2.2.2 here.


> Running the MS "depends" utility on
> csv.pyd reveals that it only needs python22.dll, msvcrt.dll
> and kernel32.dll. Are these all on your PATH?
> 

I think they are now....
"...C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM\python22.dll;C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM\KERNEL32.dll;\C:
\WINDOWS\SYSTEM\MSVCRT.dll;..."


> > Traceback (most recent call last):
> >   File "<pyshell#0>", line 1, in ?
> >     import csv
> 
> What's pyshell? did you try from good ole trusty python.exe
> in a DOS box?

No difference.  Still the same error message.
Any further help is greatly appreciated.




From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Thu Jul 17 17:55:42 2003
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 16:55:42 -0500
Subject: Problems retrieving items from a list using a reference rather
 than an integer - can you help?
In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20030717104805.028516c0@66.28.54.253> (Bob Gailer's
 message of "Thu, 17 Jul 2003 10:51:41 -0600")
References: <3f15ca92@shknews01>
	<5.2.1.1.0.20030717104805.028516c0@66.28.54.253>
Message-ID: <m2u19k24yp.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

>>>>> "Bob" == Bob Gailer <bgailer at alum.rpi.edu> writes:

    Bob> [snip] I sure hope you are not writing "yet another winning
    Bob> lottery number predictor". It is a sad commentary on
    Bob> mathematics education when individuals belive that one can
    Bob> predict the outcome of a truly random process based on any
    Bob> history. I for one certainly won't support any effort to
    Bob> further mislead people.

Granted, but this reminds me of the excellent story when 2 chaos
mathematicians went to the Montreal Casino to try and figure out the
pattern of the random number generator for the Keno game.  After some
time, they noticed that the numbers were simply repeating.  Apparently
there was a defect in the hardware, and when the machines were
rebooted, they started with the same random seed.  he won $600,000 in
three consecutive jackpots.  

So looking for patterns in the outputs of RNGs is not total folly.  Of
course RNGs are not "truly random".....

JDH




From tl_news at nexgo.de  Tue Jul 29 18:03:06 2003
From: tl_news at nexgo.de (Tino Lange)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 00:03:06 +0200
Subject: Bottleneck: easy obscurity "encryption" via xor
Message-ID: <p6rdivscomvoraihqmac4piut7uqcpdvj1@4ax.com>

Hi!

I identified a bottleneck in my programs.

I just want to "encrypt" data by easy xoring. Ok - that's no
encryption at all -  I know. But it's hardly readable - and that's
enough :-) Just some quick obscurity.

It turns out not to be quick at all. I really didn't expect this to be
a bottleneck, but it takes quite some time.

Here's the code:

>$ cat python/EasyCrypt.py
>#! /usr/bin/env python
>import operator
>def xorcrypt(str, salt = 255):
>    if salt > 255:
>        raise "Invalid salt! Must be < 255!"
>    return reduce(lambda x,y: operator.add(x, chr(y)), map(lambda char, _salt = salt: operator.xor(ord(char), _salt), str), "")

xor'ing medium sized-files takes long time. For example a 360
kByte-File takes:

>$ time ./just_crypt.py Userdatan/ScanImage01.jpg > bert
>real    1m52.138s
>user    0m40.320s
>sys     1m6.030s

on my 2.66 GHz P4 machine!

Hmmm, do you have some better implementation ideas? Some optimizing
tricks? (Besides coding in C to avoid immutable string problems)
I already took the operator module to speed up a bit - but it seems
that's not enough...

Thanks

Tino
 



From max at alcyone.com  Tue Jul 15 03:31:41 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 00:31:41 -0700
Subject: anything like C++ references?
References: <b8c3hvsesjoumiboobml3nsnajtha99mp1@4ax.com> <mailman.1058129901.28248.python-list@python.org> <plk3hv0s1m2egf4s34jo6vjedk0q8r2mu9@4ax.com> <m365m6ul5c.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <mailman.1058145500.19181.python-list@python.org> <e464hvcq48q3240ecfcs6jqhqf616q7v1a@4ax.com> <m3k7alr86s.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <poi6hvc9n1fuh95gvr9kcc1kmb4o2cablt@4ax.com> <m3znjg5qw7.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <3f67hvgi36s7rmtn59rajj2gpir8hhfiph@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3F13ADDD.57BF2969@alcyone.com>

Stephen Horne wrote:

> The whole point of 'self' is to act as a name for the object (not the
> value) so there is no problem in having it behave that way. Its
> already special because its implicit, so making it special in this way
> too wouldn't be a big issue.
> 
> Implementation detail. Not a fundamental problem.

I don't understand what distinction you're making between "object" and
"value" in this context.  In a dynamically, strongly typed language, I
don't see what value -- or, rather, merit -- there is in making the
distinction.

The value is the object.  The object is the value.

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ Heaven and Hell / Is on Earth
\__/  Salt-n-Pepa



From davidb at mcs.st-and.ac.uk  Tue Jul 29 18:36:39 2003
From: davidb at mcs.st-and.ac.uk (David Boddie)
Date: 29 Jul 2003 15:36:39 -0700
Subject: PyQt Help and Advice
References: <bg636k$408g$1@netnews.upenn.edu> <pan.2003.07.29.18.23.51.576277@cs.rit.edu>
Message-ID: <4de76ee2.0307291436.229faecb@posting.google.com>

"Keith Jones" <kmj9907 at cs.rit.edu> wrote in message news:<pan.2003.07.29.18.23.51.576277 at cs.rit.edu>...

> Also. as Sybren mentioned, the Qt
> tutorial itself should be useful.. Finally, I'll say that the book you
> mentioned is excellent, and a wonder source of example code. I liked it
> enough that I bought it, and I'm happy I did.

There's also a mailing list for PyQt and PyKDE:

http://mats.imk.fraunhofer.de/mailman/listinfo/pykde

> Good luck with PyQt! The only issues I've had were related to QCanvas not
> deleting canvas items (and therefore my program leaking them) if I don't
> reuse them. I still haven't figured that out, so I just keep track of the
> ones I create and reuse them, in order to prevent memory leaks.

This sounds familiar. I wonder if you've tried this solution:

http://www.mail-archive.com/pykde at mats.gmd.de/msg02890.html

-- 
http://www.boddie.org.uk/david/Projects/



From drs at ecp.cc  Wed Jul  9 16:15:32 2003
From: drs at ecp.cc (drs)
Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 20:15:32 GMT
Subject: .join() question
References: <eo_Oa.14415$BM.4645038@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com> <Q4KcnQcI8sgt65GiXTWJiA@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <EJ_Oa.14423$BM.4648898@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com>

"Terry Reedy" <tjreedy at udel.edu> wrote in message
news:Q4KcnQcI8sgt65GiXTWJiA at comcast.com...
>
> "drs" <drs at ecp.cc> wrote in message
> news:eo_Oa.14415$BM.4645038 at newssrv26.news.prodigy.com...
> > why does
> >
> > >>> ''.join(lst)
> >
> > not automatically do
> >
> > >>> ''.join([str(i) for i in lst])
> >
> > ?  That is, is there ever a time when one does not want .join to
> make
> > everything into a string?  This seems like reasonable default
> behavior, but
> > maybe I'm missing something?
>
> If the members of lst are already str strings, this would be a waste
> of time.  If they are unicode strings, this would be the wrong thing
> to do.  Auto conversions are not Python's style.

>>> l = [u'abcde', 'fghij']
>>> ''.join(l)
u'abcdefghij'

this seems to be auto converting the non-unicode to unicode?

-d





From bhv1 at psu.edu  Tue Jul 29 16:54:32 2003
From: bhv1 at psu.edu (Brian Victor)
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 20:54:32 GMT
Subject: curses and use_default_colors()
Message-ID: <slrnbidnj4.koh.bhv1@pa-steclge-u3-c3b-133.stcgpa.adelphia.net>

I am attempting to write a curses-based program.  I would like to use
the default terminal background rather than a black one (a significant
difference with transluscent terminals, regardless of one's opinion of
them).

It appears that in the C ncurses interface, this is accomplished via
use_default_colors() and assume_default_colors().  However, these
functions don't seem to have parallels in the python binding.  Is there
some way to accomplish what I want?

Thanks,

-- 
Brian



From adalke at mindspring.com  Tue Jul  8 18:17:04 2003
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 16:17:04 -0600
Subject: Embedding Python, threading and scalability
References: <ec23a1ae.0307081354.5fc06cb@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <beffkp$jdi$1@slb2.atl.mindspring.net>

Wenning Qiu:
> I am researching issues related to emdedding Python in C++ for a
> project.

> Has anyone on this list run into the same problem that I have, or does
> anyone know of any plan of totally insulating multiple embedded Python
> interpreters?

Ahh, the Global Interpreter Lock (GIL).

Years ago, Greg Stein had a version of Python 1.4 running with no GIL.

http://www.python.org/ftp/python/contrib-09-Dec-1999/System/threading.README
Search for "free threading" to get more hits on this topic.

As I recalled, it slowed down the performance on
single-processor/single-threaded
machines, so the general take was to keep the GIL.  In addition, see
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=mailman.1008992607.2279.python-list%40p
ython.org&oe=UTF-8&output=gplain
Tim Peters:
] The prospects for another version of that grow dimmer.  Everyone (incl.
] Greg) has noticed that CPython internals, over time, increase their
reliance
] on the thread-safety guarantees of the global interpreter lock.

The only solutions I know of are explicit multi-process solutions:
  - a generic system, like XML-RPC/SOAP/PVM/MPI/CORBA, on
       which you build your own messaging system
  - use systems like Pyro or Twisted, which understand Python objects
       and implement 'transparent' proxying via network communications
  - use POSH, which does the proxying through shared memory (but
       this uses Intel-specific assembly)

                    Andrew
                    dalke at dalkescientific.com





From gerrit.muller at embeddedsystems.nl  Wed Jul 16 03:16:51 2003
From: gerrit.muller at embeddedsystems.nl (Gerrit Muller)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 09:16:51 +0200
Subject: link collection
References: <3F140634.2010201@embeddedsystems.nl> <mailman.1058299165.31835.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3F14FBE3.5020509@embeddedsystems.nl>

Steven Taschuk wrote:
> Quoth Gerrit Muller:
>   [...]
> 
>>This link collection is bootstrapped by proudly stealing the links 
>>mentioned in Dr Dobbs Python URL by Steven Taschuk. Many thanks to Steven.
> 
> 
> Though I appreciate the comment, I should point out that the
> author of Python-URL changes from time to time -- at present it's
> Irmen de Jong, not me.  The editor and general overseer of the
> various authors is Cameron Laird, who surely deserves those thanks
> more than I do.
> 

Steven,

thank you for this addition. I have updated the page: this particular 
text is extended and moved to a new section "Acknowledgements".

A short search with Google provided indeed many more authors:
Grant Edwards, Gordon McMillan, David Ascher, Paul Boddie, Quinn Dunkan, 
  Moshe Zadka, Oleg Broytmann, Emile van Sebille, Cameron Laird, Fredrik 
Lundh, Steve Holden, Skip Montanaro, Paul Prescod, Andrew M. Kuchling

Even this list might be incomplete.

Kind regards, Gerrit

-- 
Gaudi systems architecting:
http://www.extra.research.philips.com/natlab/sysarch/




From bokr at oz.net  Wed Jul 30 11:18:00 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 30 Jul 2003 15:18:00 GMT
Subject: while (assignment):
References: <slrnbicopb.6gh.sybrenUSE@sybren.thirdtower.com> <840592e1.0307291501.42b1156e@posting.google.com> <slrnbieppo.86l.sybrenUSE@sybren.thirdtower.com> <2259b0e2.0307300419.124c040b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bg8nj8$f3p$0@216.39.172.122>

On 30 Jul 2003 05:19:07 -0700, mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato) wrote:

>Sybren Stuvel <sybrenUSE at YOURthirdtower.imagination.com> wrote in message news:<slrnbieppo.86l.sybrenUSE at sybren.thirdtower.com>...
>> Hannu Kankaanp?? enlightened us with:
>> > Typically this is done by breaking out of the loop:
>> > 
>> > while True:
>> >     info = mydbcursor.fetchone()
>> >     if not info:
>> >         break
>> >     print "Information: "+str(info)
>> 
>> This was my first solution as well. Kinda ugly, though.
>> 
>> Sybren
>
>When I started using Python I though the "while 1" idiom was horrible.
>Now I think it is quite Pythonic. Few months can change your mind! ;)
>
>You may also use this form, which you may find more readable:
>
>while 'info': 
>     info = mydbcursor.fetchone()
>     if not info: break
>     print "Information: "+str(info)
>
>Remember, 'info' is another spelling of True!
>This is a trick anyway, and I always use "while 1" in my code, it is
>the idiomatic way at the end.
>
>                        Michele

Using a one-line class definition and instantiation (and silly aliasing)

 >>> keeping = info = type('',(),{'__call__':lambda o,*a:a and setattr(o,'v',a[0]) or o.v})()
 >>> fun = iter((1,5,0,9)).next
 >>> while keeping(fun()): print info()
 ...
 1
 5


which would let you spell it

    while keeping(mydbcursor.fetchone()):
        print "Information: %s" % info()

;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au  Tue Jul 22 07:27:24 2003
From: bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au (Ben Finney)
Date: 22 Jul 2003 21:17:24 +0950
Subject: How to save web pages for offline reading?
References: <cb035744.0307210131.5cfbc890@posting.google.com> <bfge1v$e6v86$1@ID-63505.news.uni-berlin.de> <cb035744.0307210848.6b1328d1@posting.google.com> <slrnbho797.u9.sybrenUSE@sybren.thirdtower.com> <cb035744.0307212238.2ea9c46@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <slrnbhpnjb.iji.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>

On 21 Jul 2003 23:38:12 -0700, Will Stuyvesant wrote:
>> [Sybren Stuvel]
>> do "man wget"
> There is no "man wget" on Windows :-)

Another good reason to use Cygwin:

    <http://www.cygwin.com/>

which comes with man pages and a 'man' command.

-- 
 \     "As I bit into the nectarine, it had a crisp juiciness about it |
  `\          that was very pleasurable - until I realized it wasn't a |
_o__)            nectarine at all, but A HUMAN HEAD!!"  -- Jack Handey |
http://bignose.squidly.org/ 9CFE12B0 791A4267 887F520C B7AC2E51 BD41714B



From ianb at colorstudy.com  Wed Jul 30 11:16:53 2003
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: 30 Jul 2003 10:16:53 -0500
Subject: Web tool kit : pro - cons ?
In-Reply-To: <240b1020.0307292228.35cc8d08@posting.google.com>
References: <3f23003f$0$266$ba620e4c@reader0.news.skynet.be>
	 <3f24f3f7@shknews01>  <240b1020.0307292228.35cc8d08@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1059578213.12751.94.camel@lothlorien>

On Wed, 2003-07-30 at 01:28, Jeffrey P Shell wrote:
> Database Abstraction is another key issue.  Zope gets points here not
> only for the built in ZODB database, but for SQL Methods / Database
> Adapters.  There is nothing in Zope that is tied to Postgres, MySQL,
> Oracle, Sybase, SQLite, etc.  Yet it's always been able to use any of
> them since before it was Zope.  There's just a nice simple abstraction
> layer that one seldom has to think about.  

Praising SQL Methods?  Maybe I've been missing something, but SQL
Methods seem really primitive to me, certainly worse than the DB API
(though I suppose they preceded the DB API).  The transaction stuff is
convenient -- if sometimes mysterious (like so many Zope things).  But
it's not solving a terribly difficult problem.

> Other tools try the O-R
> mapping route for abstraction with varying degrees of success. 
> SkunkWeb has PyDO, Webware has one (I can't remember its name right
> now).  Zope's model is nice because it's not intrinsic to Zope that
> you use SQL - it's just a nice model to plug into if you need it, when
> you need it.  I don't know how other toolkits stack up here.  Some may
> just say "go find a Python adapter that works for you and do what you
> want with it", which seems to be as good of a way to go as any.

PyDO and MiddleKit (Webware's) are both independent of their frameworks
(it's kind of unfortunate that they appear to be tied, though), as are
the other ORMs (like my SQLObject).  All three provide something
approximating business objects built around database rows.

My impression of Zope's SQL Methods is that they encourage distinctly
un-OO style of programming, and instead everything is done through a
heap of ad hoc queries and eclectic query results.  At least, that's the
code I've encountered, and it's taken discipline to avoid doing the same
thing -- maybe there are better ways to use SQL Methods than what I've
been exposed to.  (If so, it would be better if Good Zope Style was
documented, not just learned through wisdom born of failure -- but I
haven't found that sort of documentation for Zope yet).

  Ian






From sNO_SPAMpinard at zoominternet.net  Sat Jul 12 13:04:03 2003
From: sNO_SPAMpinard at zoominternet.net (Steve Pinard)
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 13:04:03 -0400
Subject: [OFF TOPIC] Re: The "intellectual property" misnomer
References: <mailman.1057978117.8939.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3f103fa7_6@corp.newsgroups.com>

This newsgroup is for postings related to the computer language Python.

Your discussion about the meaning of intellectual property may best be

served in a newsgroup for topics related to the law.



(In other words, you all should know better. Take it outside.)






-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----



From Kepes.Krisztian at peto.hu  Thu Jul 17 04:01:47 2003
From: Kepes.Krisztian at peto.hu (Krisztian Kepes)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 10:01:47 +0200
Subject: Linux - python vs sh
Message-ID: <sf167748.045@testmail.peto.hu>

Hi !

I want to list my rpm database to file with this:

#!/bin/sh

file="./allrpm.txt"
nr=1
for rpmname in `rpm -qa`
do
  echo '>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>' >>$file
  echo "$nr." >>$file
  echo "Name: $rpmname" >>$file
  echo "" >>$file
  info=`rpm -qi $rpmname`
  echo "$info" >>$file
  echo "" >>$file
  nr=`expr $nr + 1`
done  

But it have two error:
1. the $nr is not incremented
2. the rpm detailed info is not writed to the file

I want to change it to py code. I see an perl code:

@rpmlist= rpm -qa 
It is get the rpm's output.

But how I get the rpm's output in my py program ?
list= rpm -qa 
????

Please send me an simple example !

Thx:
 KK






From klappnase at freenet.de  Sat Jul 19 21:41:25 2003
From: klappnase at freenet.de (klappnase)
Date: 19 Jul 2003 18:41:25 -0700
Subject: tkFileDialog without a parent window
References: <be21e4$trp$1@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <9a410299.0307191741.501e42@posting.google.com>

Stephen Boulet <stephen.boulet at motorola.com> wrote in message news:<be21e4$trp$1 at localhost.localdomain>...
> I'm using the following code to get a file name:
> 
>     import tkFileDialog
>     tkFileDialog.askopenfilename(filetypes=[("HDF Files", ".hdf")])
> 
> How can I do this without an empty tk window popping up and hanging around 
> after the dialog is closed? Thanks.
> 
> -- Stephen

Hi,

you may use the withdraw() method on the root window:

root = Tk()
root.withdraw()
somefile = tkFileDialog.askopenfilename(filetypes=[("HDF Files", ".hdf")])
...

Cheers

michael



From tebeka at cs.bgu.ac.il  Wed Jul  2 08:07:43 2003
From: tebeka at cs.bgu.ac.il (Miki Tebeka)
Date: 2 Jul 2003 05:07:43 -0700
Subject: arbitrary long integer aritmetics
References: <bdtv1s$22dm$1@otis.netspace.net.au>
Message-ID: <33803989.0307020407.1ad80a38@posting.google.com>

Hello Leo,

> is there a python module around allow using arbitrary long integers?
> 
> i.e. the result of an integer operation is as long as necessary, so that a*b
> never produces an overflow error. (but rather an out of memory error ;-) )
It's built in:
>>> from operator import mul
>>> def fact(x):
	return reduce(mul, range(2, x + 1), 1)
>>> fact(100L)
93326215443944152681699238856266700490715968264381621468592963895217599993229915608941463976156518286253697920827223758251185210916864000000000000000000000000L

HTH.
Miki



From peter at engcorp.com  Sun Jul  6 22:48:26 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sun, 06 Jul 2003 22:48:26 -0400
Subject: help! - cmd line interpreter gone "dumb"
References: <u6_Na.81768$2ay.70089@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com> <mailman.1057524309.16869.python-list@python.org> <pJ2Oa.69154$a51.22710@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>
Message-ID: <3F08DF7A.99CC11F@engcorp.com>

Tim wrote:
> 
> For the record...
> 
> if I don't define any paths for Python, it naturally knows were to go for
> the core + libraries.
> but, if you define the PYTHONPATH in the environment--only those directories
> are searched. It was probably the late night that had me forget when I
> changed things (funny--its seemed to work for a long while, but the changes
> may not have been reflected if I had the same command window open the entire
> evening (this was the case, I think).

This wasn't likely the cause of all your problems.  Try defining
that environment variable again, and check whether "import sys"
really does give a syntax error.  If it does, it's something else,
because all PYTHONPATH should do is let you add more stuff to
the standard search path.  (If you can get import sys to work,
type "sys.path" to see what is defined, and you'll see that the
stuff in PYTHONPATH merely goes at the front, just after the ''
item which means the directory from which the script runs.)

If you are really getting a syntax error, paste the full traceback
into another posting so we can see what it is.  Maybe you were
typing with CAPSLOCK on?  Or you had a module of your own in the
current directory, called sys.py, and it contained a syntax error,
so when you imported it you got confused?  Definitely something 
other than PYTHONPATH, I think.

-Peter



From mcherm at mcherm.com  Wed Jul 16 08:47:53 2003
From: mcherm at mcherm.com (Michael Chermside)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 05:47:53 -0700
Subject: Python Quiz
Message-ID: <1058359673.3f154979ded2a@mcherm.com>

richardc writes:
> Im no expert but wouldnt you accept that Python has 'borrowed' FORTRAN's
> fixed format syntax.  I can only think of Python and FORTRAN off the top of
> my head which use whitespace as part of the syntax.

Definitely NOT. Without addressing the question of HOW Python came by the
idea of using indentation to indicate block structure, it clearly couldn't
have been from Fortran, because what Python does and what Fortran does
are COMPLETELY different.

In Fortran, starting lines in particular columns is meaningful (as are other
particular characters in particular leading columns). In Python, particular
columns have NO meaning. In fact, I would venture to say that it is
NOT whitespace that is "significant" in Python... it's INDENTATION. The
distinction is significant, because humans are very poor at reading
whitespace (the presense or absence of it yes, but the amount is something
we're not good at reading), but we find indentation to be a *very* readable
way to mark block structure (in practically every language which doesn't
(like Fortran) prohibit indentation, it is a convention adhered to
universally ).

There's also the fact that "lines" (statements) are defined by line breaks 
in Python -- but I rarely hear complaints about this, since most programmers
mentally chunk up code into "lines" anyway.

Of course, I'm not suggesting that whitespace is *meaningless* in Python
outside of indentation... Python is much like C (and many, many others) in
that regard. After all, in C "y=x+ ++z" and "y=x++ +z" are quite
different things. And in both Python and C "x=abc" is legal, but "x=a bc"
is not.

So I would say MOST languages make the presence or absence of whitespace
significant... and that's a good idea, since it helps humans "tokenize"
the code they read. Python uses newlines to indicate where new "lines"
(statements) begin... not usually a controversial convention. Finally,
most PROGRAMMERS use indentation to indicate block structure, but Python
differs from most languages in that the Python parser uses the indentation
level as syntax for blocks, while most languages don't. And Python 
doesn't[1] care about the AMOUNT of white space (independent of indentation
level) which is a good thing, because humans find that difficult to
read.

-- Michael Chermside

[1] Unless you mix tabs and spaces. Don't do that. Use tabnanny if you
    need to.





From cfunk at pantechnica.com  Thu Jul 10 21:42:57 2003
From: cfunk at pantechnica.com (Craig Funk)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 20:42:57 -0500
Subject: Zope problem:  objectValues('Folder')
In-Reply-To: <3F0D5479.6090401@gmx.de>
Message-ID: <BB338051.2221%cfunk@pantechnica.com>

The objectValues() will only return a list of the folders if it is called
from with a DTML Method. If you are calling it from within the context of a
Document it will not work. The method is called within the context of the
folder so everything is fine. That is why it would work in
standard_html_header. However a Document has it's own context.

Craig

On 7/10/03 6:56 AM, "Jens Riedel" <JensRie at gmx.de> wrote:

> Max M schrieb:
> 
>>> I used the objectValues('Folder')-method in a DTML-method named
>>> 'navigation'. I include <dtml-var navigation> in a
>>> 'standard_html_header' DTML method, and this standard_html_header is
>>> used in the index_html document.
> 
>> Does it work if you render only the navigation method?
> 
> Yes, that's what confuses me. The navigation works completely if I call
> it with http://localhost:8080/ZopeZoo/navigation, also the
> standard_html_header does. But when I include it in the index_html, the
> list of folders vanishes, the rest of navigation works.
> 
> 
>> Also, you will find it much easier to find replies to Zope questions on
>> the zope mailing list.
> 
> thanx for the hint, I'll try it.
> 
> regards,
> Jens
> 
> 

-- 
Craig Funk
PanTechnica Corporation
952-368-3079





From webmaster at watchtow3rDOTorg.pl  Tue Jul  8 05:14:10 2003
From: webmaster at watchtow3rDOTorg.pl (Jaroslaw Zabiello (3->e & DOT->.))
Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 11:14:10 +0200
Subject: Python vs PHP
References: <mailman.1057574470.1750.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ig2lgvokd5ohvc2e7df2p11ptlk4nedj34@4ax.com>

On Mon, 07 Jul 2003 13:47:00 +0300, Catalin
<ady982 at ploiesti.astral.ro> wrote:

>Can Python replace PHP?

Sure. Look at http://spyce.sourceforge.net

>Can I use a python program to make an interface to a mysql 4.X database?

Of course, you can. http://www.python.org/sigs/db-sig/
E.g. http://dustman.net/andy/python/MySQLdb_obsolete

>If that's possible where can I find a tutorial?
http://www.python.org/doc/Newbies.html
http://www.python.org/doc/current/
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw.py

--
JZ





From trentm at ActiveState.com  Wed Jul 23 15:37:49 2003
From: trentm at ActiveState.com (Trent Mick)
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 12:37:49 -0700
Subject: Getting started with win32pdh...
In-Reply-To: <bfmg5a$20v$1@main.gmane.org>; from fmeehan@ctbr.com on Wed, Jul 23, 2003 at 01:19:26PM -0400
References: <bfmg5a$20v$1@main.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <20030723123749.C356@ActiveState.com>

[Francois Meehan wrote]
> Hi all,
> 
> Can someone give me an example on how to use win32pdh module (that 
> access windows performance counters)?  For example, how to retreive the 
> number of processes running on a win2k server, with  the 
> Objects-Processes counter?
> 
> Any ideas?

There are a few examples installed with PyWin32 (or with ActivePython if
you got PyWin32 that way):
    ...\Lib\site-packages\win32\Lib:
                win32pdhquery.py
                win32pdhutil.py


Trent

-- 
Trent Mick
TrentM at ActiveState.com




From http  Fri Jul 11 11:54:55 2003
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 11 Jul 2003 08:54:55 -0700
Subject: Securing 'pickle'
References: <pan.2003.07.11.01.20.47.998070@127.0.0.1> <slrnbgs4hc.hop.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local> <7x1xwxu98y.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <3F0E1875.574DC6D7@alcyone.com> <mailman.1057892296.5329.python-list@python.org> <87k7apyuor.fsf@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <7xr84x83e8.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee) writes:
> > Security isn't a big deal -- or rather, securing cookies isn't a big
> > deal.
> 
> I don't understand.  The problem is that pickles can be constructed
> that can damage systems when unpickled, is that right?  If that's
> true, then surely unpickling cookie data is unsafe, because stuff
> coming in from the network has to be regarded as malevolent.  Are you
> saying that web server environments are sufficiently-well bolted down
> that no pickle attack will work?  But belt-and-braces is the best
> policy, isn't it?

The point is that you can use cryptographic signatures to make sure
any cookie you receive is one that the server actually sent, before
deciding to unpickle it.  That means if the attacker constructs a
malicious cookie, you never unpickle it.



From duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk  Wed Jul 23 04:26:48 2003
From: duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk (Duncan Booth)
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 08:26:48 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: How is the execution order of 'x = z'? (also: Python FAQ 4.88)
References: <mailman.1058894315.10480.python-list@python.org> <bfk2cd$ctqfr$1@ID-67890.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <Xns93C15F0E5A290duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

"Ulrich Petri" <ulope at gmx.de> wrote in news:bfk2cd$ctqfr$1 at ID-
67890.news.uni-berlin.de:

>> x = y
>> x = z # <--
>>
>> is y's reference count decremented (and therefore its __del__ possibly
>> called) *before* x is bound to z (or is z bound to x, I don't know the
>> correct wording) or *afterwards*?
> 
> No.
> 1. its not y's reference count that gets (possibly) decremented but
> the-object-y-points-to
Correct

> 2. in this example noting will be decremented since y never goes out of
> scope. Just by assining y to x you dont "invalidate" y.
> 
In this example the reference count of the-object-known-as-y is incremented 
by the assigment 'x=y' and decremented during the assignment 'x=z'.

In answer to the original question, is the reference count decremented 
before or after the assignment, the answer is 'after'. It has to be after 
the assignment has completed otherwise there would be a window, accessible 
during the call to __del__ where 'x' still referred to the original object, 
but the original object had a reference count of 0. It is usually fairly 
safe to assume that Python gets elementary things like reference counts 
right. (Unlike Microsoft whose reference counting on COM objects goes to 0 
more than once during their lifetime which can cause pain in free threaded 
programs.)


-- 
Duncan Booth                                             duncan at rcp.co.uk
int month(char *p){return(124864/((p[0]+p[1]-p[2]&0x1f)+1)%12)["\5\x8\3"
"\6\7\xb\1\x9\xa\2\0\4"];} // Who said my code was obscure?



From allisonb at terralogicgis.com  Mon Jul 14 20:31:47 2003
From: allisonb at terralogicgis.com (Allison Bailey)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 17:31:47 -0700
Subject: Open MS Excel Spreadsheet with Python
Message-ID: <000c01c34a68$79b9cda0$0c00a8c0@RHODY>

Hi Folks,

I'm a brand new Python programmer, so please point me in the right
direction if this is not the best forum for this question....

I would like to open an existing MS Excel spreadsheet and extract
information from specific worksheets and cells.

I'm not really sure how to get started with this process.
I ran the COM Makepy utility from my PythonWin (IDE from ActiveSTate),
using Microsoft Excel 10.0 Object Library, then
import win32com.client
xl = win32com.client.Dispatch("Excel.Application")
wb = xl.Workbooks.Open ("c:\\data\\myspreadsheet.xls")

Then, I get errors when I try the following:
sh = wb.worksheets(1)


I think I'm missing something fairly fundamental, but I've googled all
over the place and can't seem to find anything very introductory about
opening and using data from MS Excel using Python.  Any suggestions,
including places to get more information are welcome.  

Also, do I need to run the makepy utility every time I run my script?
If so, how would I do it from within my Python program, rather than with
the GUI in the IDE?

Thanks for your help,

Allison


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Allison Bailey
TerraLogic GIS, Inc.
allisonb at terralogicgis.com
425-673-4495
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 






From claird at lairds.com  Tue Jul  1 17:57:30 2003
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 21:57:30 -0000
Subject: When is unit-testing bad? [was: Re: does lack of type...]
References: <3EEE1210.3004AB45@engcorp.com> <878ys06tcv.fsf_-_@pobox.com> <vf11j7l3f0ku52@news.supernews.com> <87of0pno5s.fsf@titan.staselog.com>
Message-ID: <vg40uajdqo3ac4@corp.supernews.com>

In article <87of0pno5s.fsf at titan.staselog.com>,
Edvard Majakari  <edvard+web at majakari.net> wrote:
>
>I'm rather interested in (and fond of) unit testing as well as TDD, so I
>though to share my opinions. I once discussed TDD with my friend in here,
>and the common agreement seemed to be that TDD is not a silver bullet -
>often there are types of computational modules that are very hard to unit
>test, eg. think of graphical user interfaces or complex systems, where
>forking or threading is concerned. 
			.
			.
			.
While we're all being rational enough to look at bundles of
costs and benefits, this observation hints at a different
insight:  that it's possible to *design* for testability.

Yes, GUIs and forking and threading are hard to test.  SO
DON'T DO THEM.  Or, as I prefer, adopt models of GUI and
concurrency development that lend themselves to testing.

At this point, I should explain what I mean by that.  I
haven't yet figured out how to say it in less than a book;
therefore, all I can contribute for today are the slogans
above.

If you're in a situation where unit-testing is bad, you're
probably in a bad situation.  Change your situation.
-- 

Cameron Laird <Cameron at Lairds.com>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
Personal:  http://phaseit.net/claird/home.html



From ianb at colorstudy.com  Wed Jul  9 13:34:46 2003
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: 09 Jul 2003 12:34:46 -0500
Subject: Sample Web application (Re: Python vs PHP)
In-Reply-To: <behc69$o3t$1@news1.wdf.sap-ag.de>
References: <mailman.1057574470.1750.python-list@python.org>
	 <kmolgv4mp12o71ocion7ra0m2s9fcrqjdk@4ax.com>
	 <begc78$rui$1@mawar.singnet.com.sg> <VLicnfImRJLPkpGiRTvUqA@speakeasy.net>
	 <behc69$o3t$1@news1.wdf.sap-ag.de>
Message-ID: <1057772086.3738.1136.camel@lothlorien>

On Wed, 2003-07-09 at 10:26, Daniel Dittmar wrote:
> Ian Bicking did something like this with
> http://colorstudy.com/docs/shootout.html with a Wiki as the example
> application. If there is interest, I would volunteer to copy this into the
> Wiki so that it can be more easily extended. I already got Ian's
> permissionto do so, but was so far too lazy for it.

It might be preferable to do this in CVS somewhere -- it would handle
the source files better, and most of the commentary can go in comments.

One of the big problems I also had was installation.  Many of the
frameworks require non-trivial Apache configuration, which hinders
experimentation.  Actually solving this is significant work, though --
but also something which very much deserves solving.

A SourceForge (or equivalent) project might be a good place to start.

  Ian






From vincent_delft at yahoo.com  Sun Jul 13 14:07:26 2003
From: vincent_delft at yahoo.com (vincent_delft)
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 20:07:26 +0200
Subject: CGIHTTPserver looze PYTHONPATH
References: <5c184570.0307130722.2c74879c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3f119feb$0$265$ba620e4c@reader0.news.skynet.be>

vincent delft wrote:

I've found the problem by analysing the CGIHTTPServer.py code.

The exec command send the LOCAL env variable instead of the full
environemnts.

+ os.execve(scriptfile, args, os.environ)
- os.execve(scriptfile, args, env)







> I'm using Python 2.2.2
> the standard cgihttpserver (example given in the python doc).
> All HTML and CGI work.
> 
> BUT
> 
> by writing a simple python-cgi script like this :
> "
> #!/usr/bin/env python
> import os
> print "<html>%s</html>" % os.environ
> "
> I've discover that the environement variable are lost.
> For example PYTHONPATH is no more present.
> 
> Can you explain me why ?
> Does this is a bug ?
> How can I keep my PYTHONPATH variable across my python-cgi ?
> (I don't want to add os.putenv on top of each python-cgi script)
> 
> Thanks




From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Jul 29 09:23:17 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 09:23:17 -0400
Subject: variable assignment in "while" loop
References: <slrnbicoqq.6gh.sybrenUSE@sybren.thirdtower.com>
Message-ID: <3F267545.65B41378@engcorp.com>

Sybren Stuvel wrote:
> 
> Is it possible to use an assignment in a while-loop? I'd like to do
> something like "loop while there is still something to be read, and if
> there is, put it in this variable". I've been a C programmer since I
> was 14, so a construct like:
> 
> while info = mydbcursor.fetchone():
>         print "Information: "+str(info)
> 
> comes to mind. Unfortunately, this doesn't work. Is there a similar
> construct in python?

Yes:

while 1:
    info = mydbcursor.fetchone()
    if not info:
        break
    print "Information: " + str(info)

-Peter



From intentionally at blank.co.uk  Sun Jul 13 23:51:10 2003
From: intentionally at blank.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 04:51:10 +0100
Subject: anything like C++ references?
References: <b8c3hvsesjoumiboobml3nsnajtha99mp1@4ax.com> <mailman.1058129901.28248.python-list@python.org> <plk3hv0s1m2egf4s34jo6vjedk0q8r2mu9@4ax.com> <hflQa.48826$wk6.12216@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net>
Message-ID: <rp94hvc8fg6h91oe7ctqq9jn9ku3nlud1k@4ax.com>

On Sun, 13 Jul 2003 22:42:21 GMT, "Bryan" <belred1 at yahoo.com> wrote:

>
>> 3.  Why is there no way to reference an immutable object via a
>> pointer, other than stuffing it into a mutable object designed for
>> some purpose other than simple pointer behaviour?
>>
>
>>>> a = (1, 2, 3)
>>>> b = a
>>>> id(a)
>15471760
>>>> id(b)
>15471760
>>>> print b[1]
>2
>>>>
>
>
>i just referenced an immutable object via a "pointer" and i __did_not__
>stuff it into a mutable object as you say.
>a and b "point" to the same object.

Technically, but what is the point? You can't do pointer-style things
with it. You can't change the object in any way without changing the
id, and you can't use the mechanism to, for instance, allow 'var'
parameters.

In short, you are showing evidence of the use of pointers internally
within Python, but that is not the same as providing pointer-like
semantics.




From amk at amk.ca  Sun Jul 20 20:12:49 2003
From: amk at amk.ca (A.M. Kuchling)
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 19:12:49 -0500
Subject: Possible use of Python for a voting machine demo project -- your feedback requested
References: <P9DSa.111436$Io.9552373@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <bff56e$8iv$1@slb9.atl.mindspring.net> <7xllus94t8.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <K_idnV09hdycrYaiRTvU2Q@speakeasy.net>

On 20 Jul 2003 16:06:11 -0700, 
	Paul Rubin <> wrote:
> one another.  Otherwise the ballot would be a voting receipt,
> something that a good voting system should not provide.  Search for
> "receipt-free voting" in Google to see what a big problem this is for
> computerized systems.

On the other hand, given the ready availability of cellphones with digital
cameras, even in a paper-based system you can now make your own voting
receipt while you're still in the voting booth.  Not clear what can be done
about this... perhaps you'll have to hand in your cellphone when voting, and
go through an X-ray system to prove you don't have it.

--amk



From jjl at pobox.com  Tue Jul  8 09:16:31 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 08 Jul 2003 14:16:31 +0100
Subject: A story about Python... sort of
References: <mailman.1057616412.8695.python-list@python.org> <gYqOa.2781$N7.1106@sccrnsc03>
Message-ID: <87wuetp39s.fsf@pobox.com>

"Russell Reagan" <rreagan at attbi.com> writes:

> "John J Lee" <jjl at pobox.com> wrote:
> 
> >  A Google result (appropriately enough, given the origin of
> > the name Google) suggested 10**120
> 
> 10**120 is the estimate of "paths", or "games", not "positions". The
> estimate of unique positions is 10**40, give or take. I don't recall whether
[...]

Yeah.  The previous couple of lines you snipped from my post:

| attempting to work out the number of chess games is that my undergrad
                             ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

| maths books are currently propping up the monitor I'm using to write this
| <0.5 wink>.  A Google result (appropriately enough, given the origin of
| the name Google) suggested 10**120, and I seem to have a number in my head


John



From whisper at oz.net  Mon Jul 21 12:45:29 2003
From: whisper at oz.net (David LeBlanc)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 09:45:29 -0700
Subject: COM interface to the Python interpreter
In-Reply-To: <bfgsf3$iuh$1@news.mch.sbs.de>
Message-ID: <GCEDKONBLEFPPADDJCOEAENALOAA.whisper@oz.net>

Does \Python22\Lib\site-packages\win32com\HTML\PythonCOM.html help?

You might also want to look at
\Python22\Lib\site-packages\win32comext\axscript\server\axsite.py

David LeBlanc
Seattle, WA USA

> -----Original Message-----
> From: python-list-admin at python.org
> [mailto:python-list-admin at python.org]On Behalf Of Christian Knoblauch
> Sent: Monday, July 21, 2003 7:14
> To: python-list at python.org
> Subject: COM interface to the Python interpreter
>
>
> Hello all,
>
> under Win32 it is possible to use Python as a scripting language
> inside ASP
> pages (win32lib package), so there must be a COM interface to the Python
> interpreter.
>
> I like to use this interface instead of writing my own COM server
> to invoke
> Python scripts from COM aware languages,  unfortunately i can not find the
> type-library for this interface.
>
> Can one provide this information (perhaps with an litle example) ?
>
> Thanks in advance !
>
> By,
> Christian
>
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list





From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Wed Jul 30 10:05:51 2003
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 30 Jul 2003 10:05:51 -0400
Subject: Unfortunate exception on dict item assignment (and why aren't slices hashable?)
References: <mailman.1058752171.10243.python-list@python.org> <bg5vg6$2d2$1@panix1.panix.com> <67fdivk9iu0q1p7nc8smfj1miip3cbvobf@4ax.com> <mailman.1059566448.27346.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bg8jbv$r92$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <mailman.1059566448.27346.python-list at python.org>,
Jeff Epler  <jepler at unpythonic.net> wrote:
>On Tue, Jul 29, 2003 at 07:29:19PM +0100, Marc Wilson wrote:
>> In comp.lang.python,  aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) (Aahz) wrote in
>> <bg5vg6$2d2$1 at panix1.panix.com>::
>> 
>> |Fair enough.  Note carefully that I said "submit a patch" -- that
>> |doesn't guarantee that the patch will be accepted, and it's quite likely
>> |that it won't be.  But "submit a patch" is usually a good way to get
>> |people to shut up.  ;-)
>> 
>> Shame it doesn't work in *all* newsgroups, eh?
>
>I'll have you know that I've submitted a number of Python patches that
>were clearly bad ideas.  In fact, I'm a little hurt that Aahz doesn't
>think of me as "that guy who often posts or submits horrible patches
>and won't shut up".

I'm not sufficiently involved with the actual development process to
hold such an opinion.  ;-)  (Despite my regular comments on python-dev,
I don't contribute code because SF refuses to make changes to allow Lynx
to work correctly.)
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

This is Python.  We don't care much about theory, except where it intersects 
with useful practice.  --Aahz



From sross at connectmail.carleton.ca  Thu Jul 31 17:15:26 2003
From: sross at connectmail.carleton.ca (Sean Ross)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 17:15:26 -0400
Subject: list indexing
References: <ec1162c7.0307311153.26d1b999@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <OGfWa.8894$Cx4.875868@news20.bellglobal.com>

"Matthew" <ruach at chpc.utah.edu> wrote in message
news:ec1162c7.0307311153.26d1b999 at posting.google.com...
> Hello, I am rather new to python and I have come across a problem that
> I can not find an answer to any where I my books. What I would like to
> know is if there is a way to get the index number of a list element by
> name. Sort of the inverse of the .index() method.

Perhaps I've misunderstood, but it looks like you want:
>>> words = ['this', 'is', 'a', 'list']
>>> words.index('list')
3

which is, of course, not the inverse of .index() (but .index() itself).

In general, if you use this, you'll either need to be certain that the item
is indeed in the list, or nest the call in a try/except like so:
>>> try:
...  index = words.index('list')
... except ValueError:
...  pass     # or whatever you want to do when the look-up fails
...
>>> index
3

HTH
Sean





From Robert at AbilitySys.com  Tue Jul 15 12:21:40 2003
From: Robert at AbilitySys.com (Robert at AbilitySys.com)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 09:21:40 -0700
Subject: Stop Python from exiting upon error in Windows
References: <vh6jmv2f767h8b@corp.supernews.com> <n2o6hvcahk7dlmn9t26tvis8umnfg1tdeo@4ax.com> <3F136BEA.5B56562@engcorp.com> <vh6v443q2fjab3@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <vh8agkdkcntn20@corp.supernews.com>

Ok, I figured out the IDLE block indent (duh - RTFMenu), and now it works
great in DOS. Again, thanks to all who helped.

However, I'd still like to know how to determine what environment I'm
running under inside my code. Any suggestions?

- Robert

<Robert at AbilitySys.com> wrote in message
news:vh6v443q2fjab3 at corp.supernews.com...
> Thanks! I'm getting closer to what I want, but it raises two questions:
>
> 1. Is there an IDLE keystroke to indent a block of code? (just putting
try:
> at the start of my program causes an error, expecting an indented block to
> follow which is my entire program!)
>
> 2. Is there a way to tell the environment I'm running under (python
> interpreter, IDLE window, or other)? I'd like to put a pause at the end of
> my program if and only if I'm running under the python.exe DOS-like
> program...
>
> - Robert
>
> "Peter Hansen" <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message
> news:3F136BEA.5B56562 at engcorp.com...
> > Tom Plunket wrote:
> > >
> > > Or- catch the error in your mainline, and do a sys.raw_input()
> > > call on exception.
> >
> > Tom meant just "raw_input()", which is a builtin, rather than
> > sys.raw_input which does not exist, of course.
> >
> > To answer your question in the other reply, yes, you can
> > nest exceptions.  If you have a try/except and the raw_input
> > in the except, however, you won't see any exception traceback
> > printed at the console so you'll need something like the
> > traceback module and one of the functions from it, like
> > traceback.print_exc().
> >
> > -Peter
>
>





From selwyn at home.net.nz  Mon Jul 14 02:58:46 2003
From: selwyn at home.net.nz (selwyn)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 18:58:46 +1200
Subject: timeout on os.popen3?
In-Reply-To: <1058116964.113730@yasure>
References: <uzbQa.4655$9f7.529830@news02.tsnz.net> <1058116964.113730@yasure>
Message-ID: <4wsQa.4778$9f7.548299@news02.tsnz.net>

> On the other hand, if you don't mind writing to disk files instead, that
> will completely eliminate this aspect of your problem.  

thanks worked perfectly - classic case of not seeing the forest for the 
trees!




From tim.one at comcast.net  Thu Jul 17 14:28:09 2003
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 14:28:09 -0400
Subject: anything like C++ references?
In-Reply-To: <XKidndd1SNg9QYuiXTWJiw@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <BIEJKCLHCIOIHAGOKOLHEEJGGFAA.tim.one@comcast.net>

[Stephen Horne]
>> Anyway, Algol and Fortran apparently (I didn't know this until today)
>> *always* used call-by-reference.

[Terry Reedy]
> Not true (about Fortran).  I vaguely remember (about 1980) when IBM
> Fortran switched from one calling convention to another.  I initially
> missed the one-line change in the manual update sheets.  A working
> program started giving strange results until I finally figured out
> what was going on and then found the one line 'announcement'.

Yes, many Fortran implementations used call-by-value/result, and that's fine
by Fortran's rules.  The primary difference lies in whether assigning to
formal argument X appeared to change the value of formal argument Y too,
while you were still in the subroutine with those formal arguments, when the
caller passed the same variable as actual argument in both the X and Y
positions.  In CBR, changes are instantly visible via aliases; in CBVR,
they're not.  The Fortran standard finessed this simply by declaring
programs which relied on either specific behavior to be non-conforming
programs ("undefined").

Algol's history is a lot more complicated too, and, indeed, the infamous
"call by name" came out of what was probably a mistake in the Algol 60
specification.





From staschuk at telusplanet.net  Tue Jul  1 14:26:35 2003
From: staschuk at telusplanet.net (Steven Taschuk)
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 12:26:35 -0600
Subject: Good code patterns in Python
In-Reply-To: <cb035744.0307010149.399df2eb@posting.google.com>; from hwlgw@hotmail.com on Tue, Jul 01, 2003 at 02:49:54AM -0700
References: <cb035744.0307010149.399df2eb@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20030701122635.A15807@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>

Quoth Will Stuyvesant:
> If you know that your source code is going to be used
> later by others, then I feel that code with the pattern:
> 
>     if some_condition:
>         some_name = some_value
>     else:
>         some_name = other_value
> 
> is often a mistake.  Much better, safer, would be:
> 
>     some_name = some_value
>     if not some_condition:
>         some_name = other_value

I join the Ms in disagreeing strongly.  The visual parallelism of
the first reflects the conceptual parallelism of the two cases,
while the second obscures it.

> Because those people reusing your code might decide to
> change or adapt the "if" part of the first example.  Or
> the "else" part for that matter.  And then they could end
> up with "some_name" being undefined, crashing other code
> maybe 1000's of lines away.  This could happen for example
> because they use exceptions in the "if" part that jump out
> of it, etc.

I assume you're not speaking of local variables here -- a function
thousands of lines long would be unconscionable.

Presumably you're speaking of attributes, and the danger is that
an exception in one branch would cause the object's invariants be
broken.  But I don't see how this would happen in practice, in a
way which would (a) leave the attribute undefined and (b) imply to
the caller that everything was fine.  Do you have an example?

(Much more serious and more common is the danger that after an
exception is raised, the function has done half its work and left
the object in a broken state.  But this has nothing to do with
what you're talking about.)

> There is the small overhead of assigning something twice

Too minor to worry about:

    $ timeit -s'def foo(): global a; a = 1' 'foo()'
    100000 loops, best of 3: 5.51 usec per loop
    $ timeit -s'def foo(): global a; a = 1; a = 1' 'foo()'
    100000 loops, best of 3: 6.1 usec per loop

If I'm running the code a million times, and everything else in
the loop takes less than a microsecond, this might be worth
thinking about.

-- 
Steven Taschuk                                                   w_w
staschuk at telusplanet.net                                      ,-= U
                                                               1 1




From davidcfox at post.harvard.edu  Tue Jul 22 17:13:28 2003
From: davidcfox at post.harvard.edu (David C. Fox)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 21:13:28 GMT
Subject: How do I get more events from a wxListCtrl in a panel?
In-Reply-To: <df2rhv01arcg51jdpnjc7e1vrll4knbrki@4ax.com>
References: <df2rhv01arcg51jdpnjc7e1vrll4knbrki@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <YNhTa.110008$GL4.28250@rwcrnsc53>

bmoore at integrian.com wrote:

> Hello.
> 
> I am working on an application using wxPython that includes a panel
> with a wxListCtrl populated with data received from a LAN attached
> database.
> 
> I want the wxListCtrl panel to be loaded with a small amount of data
> initially.  When the user moves the vertical scrollbar or press PageUp
> or PageDown, I want to load the list view with new data from the
> database.  I only want to load the wxListCtrl with a subset of the
> database data at a time so the list view is responsive and will allow
> for handling large databases.
> 
> The problem I am having is how to get events from the scrollbars or
> the PageUp/PageDown keys, etc.  I can get events from selecting items,
> etc.

Use a virtual list control (style wxLC_VIRTUAL) which doesn't contain 
any data, but invokes callbacks to retrieve only those records which are 
currently visible.  See the example in the demo.

David

P.S. for wxPython specific questions, you will probably find a bigger 
audience on the wxPython-users list (see 
http://www.wxpython.org/maillist.php)




From smoret-google at genocide.net  Sat Jul 12 20:46:26 2003
From: smoret-google at genocide.net (Steve Moret)
Date: 12 Jul 2003 17:46:26 -0700
Subject: python scripting game The Temple Of Elemental Evil update
References: <mailman.1057545910.15473.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ee2db13b.0307121646.64fce737@posting.google.com>

"Delaney, Timothy C (Timothy)" <tdelaney at avaya.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.1057545910.15473.python-list at python.org>...
> Actually, you don't have to pay to use the RPG Vault boards (vnboard), 
> though you do if you want extra features.
> 
> I've talked to Guido privately about this, and intend to ask Tim Cain 
> (Project Lead) or Steve Moret (Lead Programmer) if they would be willing 
> to write a piece about the use of Python in ToEE.

I'd be overjoyed to write up a little article on our use of Python in
ToEE. I believe Vampire: The Masquerade: Bloodlines is also using
Python for scripting. We both are taking slightly different approaches
to its use, and in retrospect I'd love to rip out our current
implementation and redo it a little better.

I'll try and remember to send you or Guido an e-mail when we finish
the project to get the ball rolling on this. Right now we're deep into
crunch mode and if thats not bad enough, have people pulled away
frequently for PR related issues. I'm thinking (more hoping really) we
should be done and relaxed around September 1st.



From heikowu at ceosg.de  Fri Jul 18 02:43:11 2003
From: heikowu at ceosg.de (Heiko Wundram)
Date: 18 Jul 2003 08:43:11 +0200
Subject: How do I get info on an exception ?
In-Reply-To: <fc07672ed11f5dcad539bcf9bf0d051f@news.1usenet.com>
References: <fc07672ed11f5dcad539bcf9bf0d051f@news.1usenet.com>
Message-ID: <1058510591.593.5.camel@d168.stw.stud.uni-saarland.de>

> How do I get the "(11004, 'host not found')" part?
> More importantly, where is the answer documented that I should
> have looked?

Look at the traceback module from the Python standard library. If you
just wish to print the exception, do the following:

import traceback

try:
	nosuchobject
except:
	traceback.print_exc()

HTH!

Heiko.





From steve at ferg.org  Tue Jul 22 08:04:59 2003
From: steve at ferg.org (Stephen Ferg)
Date: 22 Jul 2003 05:04:59 -0700
Subject: Python & Perl in Wall Street Journal
Message-ID: <b16e4ef7.0307220404.49d2719b@posting.google.com>

Seen in the Wall Street Journal, Monday, July 21, 2003, page B1.  

Lee Gomes' "Portals" technology column: "Two Men, Two Ways to Speak
Computerese and Two Big Successes".

This is a brief, non-technical story on Guido von Rossum, inventor of
Python, and Larry Wall, inventor of Perl.

I don't think this is available online unless you are a paid
subscriber to the WSJ online edition.  So here are a few quick quotes
and a mini-review.

"They live a few dozen miles from each other, have strikingly
different backgrounds and world views, but in their own separate ways
they have created computer languages among the most important in the
world."

"Over the past decade, ... scripting languages have come to rival
full-blown languages such as C and Java in power and performance.  But
they've kept the ease of use that was their main attraction in the
first place.  Hence their popularity."

"As the most popular of all the scripting languages, Perl and Python
compete with each other for mind share among the same communities of
programmers.  The competition is good-natured, like the fake-Buddhist
Python Web site that tells how 'the origin of suffering lies in the
use of non-Python.'"

Mr. Gomes is right on the mark when he notes that "computer languages
have distinct personalities", but I think he misses the mark when
attempting to capture and contrast the personalities Perl and Python. 
"Perl is famous for being permissive, with no right or wrong way of
accomplishing a task.  Python by contrast, is considered more rigid an
exacting."  I think it would have been more accurate to contrast an
eclectic grab-bag approach to language design with a clear, consistent
design philosophy.

The article goes on to contrast the characteristics of the languages
with the personalities of their developers.  Larry Wall "gatekeeper of
the undogmatic Perl is a devout Christian."  In contrast, Guido,
"started working on the my-way-or-the-highway Python as a typical
resident of the famously freewheeling city of Amsterdam."

It would have been just as easy to paint the languages as being highly
consistent with the personalities of their inventors.  One might
observe, for instance, that Perl is extremely conservative.  It is
unwilling to abandon any of the features of its multiple forebears. 
Like Genesis with its E and Y sources, Perl is composed of pieces of
its predecessors, stitched together even when they offer differing
approaches to the same subject.  Python, in contrast, is genuinely
innovative.  How many other languages use indentation as a control
structure?

In any case, Mr. Gomes has written a very readable column that raises
the name-brand awareness of Perl and Python for a non-technical
audience, and for that he deserves a big round of applause from the
Python, Perl, and open-source communities.

-- Steve Ferg (steve at ferg.org)



From 2002 at weholt.org  Thu Jul  3 13:17:55 2003
From: 2002 at weholt.org (Thomas Weholt)
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 19:17:55 +0200
Subject: Python is a gem, you need to keep pushing it ....
References: <0gVMa.126$a%1.9289@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au> <mailman.1057242668.12614.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <tzZMa.10664$Hb.187872@news4.e.nsc.no>

I've been a hardcore python evangelist for 4-5 years, but in my experience
most developers are conservative when it comes to programming languages.
They tend to stick to what they know and avoid everything else. Especially
coders using compiled languages like Delphi/Pascal. They know some VB or
Perl and laugh when I bring up Python. But don't loose faith.

Thomas

"delphiro" <delphiro at zonnet.nl> wrote in message
news:mailman.1057242668.12614.python-list at python.org...
> Same story here,
>
> My company primarily uses Delphi (Object Pascal) which is actualy a nice
development language / IDE but with linux as a rising star and Kylix as a
nasty and not-so-friendly-and-platform-indepandent Delphi-clone we have
decided to use Python for a number of small projects. As a python addict I
really hope this works out! No offence, but I'd rather be using Emacs and
Python than the Delphi IDE. It is so much more fun and it runs on Linux
*and* Windows (ok and more.. but those are our target OS'es).
>
> We now have a team of 4 Python addicts trying to convince our bosses and
the 30+ Delphi developers. I realy hope this works out :-)
>
> Regards,
> Rob
>
> --
> [-------------delphiro-------------]
> [-- http://pyciv.sourceforge.net --]
> [----------------------------------]
>





From johnroth at ameritech.net  Sat Jul  5 16:38:53 2003
From: johnroth at ameritech.net (John Roth)
Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2003 16:38:53 -0400
Subject: Least used builtins?
References: <b03e80d.0307040620.2158fd41@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <vgedok1k72fd2d@news.supernews.com>

Reducing the number of builtins doesn't seem like the
right direction. I'd prefer to see something in the
official documentation that tries to bring some
conceptual order to the builtins. While my mind *likes*
to read down a list of dispariate things and try to bring
some order out of the mess, I know that others are
put off by the task.

For example:

Functional Programming:
    map()
    reduce()
    filter()
    itertools module
    zip()
Mathematics and similar:
    abs()
    complex()
    complex math module
    divmod()
    float()
    int()
    long()
    max()
    min()
    pow()
    round()
Reflection and meta-programming
    apply() *depreciated*
    callable()
    compile()
    delattr()
    eval()
    execfile()
    getattr()
    hasattr()
    input()
    isinstance()
    issubclass()
    setattr()
    vars()

Maybe with a one line (no more!) explanation of what the function or
module does.

John Roth













From peter at engcorp.com  Wed Jul 16 19:35:00 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 19:35:00 -0400
Subject: Choosing the right framework
References: <mailman.1058360129.5550.python-list@python.org> <pan.2003.07.16.23.32.16.64560@refuse.com>
Message-ID: <3F15E124.A737D1E4@engcorp.com>

David McNab wrote:
> 
> I've been working on an HTML generation framework called 'pyWeb'. Just
> posted to this ng yesterday, calling for testers.
> 
> You might like to visit http://www.freenet.org.nz/python/pyweb and have a
> look.


David, I had to post instead of reply, since you of course have
hidden your email address.  I hope you get this.

You are using the refuse.com domain for your fake address.  This
is very inappropriate, as that is a real domain for a real company.

Please switch to the proper approach: append ".invalid" to your 
address.  This is the *defined* way to form a domain name which
is guaranteed to be invalid.

-Peter



From max at alcyone.com  Tue Jul  1 21:48:15 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 18:48:15 -0700
Subject: whitespace and ?asc()?
References: <3F02086D.9010300@ihug.co.nz>
Message-ID: <3F0239DF.C24C269E@alcyone.com>

Ray Tomes wrote:

> I was trying to find out the exact definition of whitespace so I went
> to
> look at strings.whitespace to find out which chars were whitespace,
> and
> found 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 32 which according to my ancient ascii chart
> are
> TAB, LF, VT, NP, CR, SPACE. Anyone know what NP = 12 is?

ASCII 12 decimal is FF, or form feed.  NP is not an official control
character in ASCII, and TAB and SPACE are written HT (horizontal tab)
and SP, respectively.

	http://www.alcyone.com/max/reference/compsci/ascii.html

> Also, in trying to find the ASCII (or is it ANSI) values ...

It's ASCII.

> ... for
> characters I
> could not find the reverse function for chr() [in BASIC it is asc()]-
> can
> someone please tell me what reverses chr()?

ord.

>>> ord('\n')
10
>>> chr(10)
'\n'

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ People are taught to be racists.
\__/  Jose Abad



From carel.fellinger at chello.nl  Sun Jul 27 14:13:49 2003
From: carel.fellinger at chello.nl (Carel Fellinger)
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 20:13:49 +0200
Subject: Tools for reading Dr Dobb's Python-URL
In-Reply-To: <3f23f845$0$49109$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
References: <mailman.1059296203.18871.python-list@python.org> <3f23bc25$0$49102$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl> <mailman.1059316961.18762.python-list@python.org> <3f23f845$0$49109$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <20030727181349.GA5534@mail.felnet>

On Sun, Jul 27, 2003 at 06:05:31PM +0200, Irmen de Jong wrote:
> Egbert Bouwman wrote:
> >My mail reader is the text-based Mutt, which:
...
> I cannot help you with a better alternative
> to mutt if you want to use a text-based mail reader,

well, he could use a real:) news/mail reader like gnus (inside emacs),
still text based, but calls to viewers are a tad more integrated.

on the other hand, mutt is fine, reliable and trust worthy, so why change.

-- 
groetjes, carel




From gh at ghaering.de  Sat Jul 12 11:46:42 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 17:46:42 +0200
Subject: new in town
In-Reply-To: <AeVPa.445271$Vi5.11496890@news1.calgary.shaw.ca>
References: <AeVPa.445271$Vi5.11496890@news1.calgary.shaw.ca>
Message-ID: <3F102D62.7060804@ghaering.de>

Elaine Jackson wrote:
> Can Python be compiled? [...]

That depends on your definition of "compiled". If you mean that machine 
language can be constructed without any interpreter involved, then the 
answer is no.

If you want a way to make a Python application not depend on an 
installed interpreter, then there are several ways to do this.

This and many more of your questions to come will be answered by the 
Python FAQ, btw: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw.py

-- Gerhard




From dortmann at lsil.com  Tue Jul  1 19:01:55 2003
From: dortmann at lsil.com (Daniel Ortmann)
Date: 01 Jul 2003 18:01:55 -0500
Subject: Python-2.3b1 bugs on Windows2000 with: the new csv module, string
 replace, and the re module
Message-ID: <hc6el19am1o.fsf@mhbs.lsil.com>

These problems only happen on Windows.  On Linux everything works fine.
Has anyone else run into these bugs?  Any suggestions?

Where do I find out the proper bug reporting process?


Problem #1:

While using the csv module's DictWriter on MSDOS (a.k.a. Windows2000),
the output files get newlines like \x0d\x0d\x0a instead of \x0d\x0a.

csvwriter = csv.DictWriter( file( out1filename, 'w' ), infieldnames, extrasaction='ignore' )
csvwriter.writerow( dict( zip( infieldnames, infieldnames ) ) )

Problem #2:

While trying to fix up the first problem I run into another problem.
The following string replace code works until right around the boundary
at 2^7 * 1024, i.e. near 131072 (around line 1224), and then inserts a
bunch of \x00's in the string!

Before the \x00's, all of the \x0d's were correctly replaced.  After the
\x00's, NONE of them were replaced.

content = file( fname, 'rb' ).read().replace( '\x0d', '' )
file( fname, 'wb' ).write( content )

Problem #3:

The same problem also happens with the re module.

content = re.sub( '\x0d', '', file( fname, 'rb' ).read() )
file( fname, 'wb' ).write( content )

-- 
Daniel Ortmann, LSI Logic, 3425 40th Av NW, Suite 200, Rochester MN 55901
work: Daniel.Ortmann at lsil.com / 507.535.3861 / 63861 int / 8012.3861 gdds
home: ortmann at isl.net / 507.288.7732, 2414 30Av NW #D, Rochester MN 55901



From staschuk at telusplanet.net  Mon Jul 28 16:21:29 2003
From: staschuk at telusplanet.net (Steven Taschuk)
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 14:21:29 -0600
Subject: looping through a file
In-Reply-To: <87u197a495.fsf@pobox.com>; from jjl@pobox.com on Mon, Jul 28, 2003 at 01:23:18AM +0100
References: <3eaf6668$0$1030$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au> <bfs0ec$eq9$1@news.iucc.ac.il> <3f21903c$0$27898$626a54ce@news.free.fr> <mailman.1059251920.7295.python-list@python.org> <87llukrdow.fsf@pobox.com> <bg112v$3i1$0@216.39.172.122> <87u197a495.fsf@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <20030728142129.A1276@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>

Quoth John J. Lee:
> bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) writes:
  [woes with file iterators reading ahead]
> > >I gathered from a recent thread that this has changed -- the file is
> > >its own iterator now.  Was the old behaviour ever released in 2.2, or
> > >was it just part of a 2.3 beta?
> > >
> > Curious what was changed ...
> 
> I'm not certain it has changed -- haven't tested.

2.3 has the change, 2.2.2 does not:

    Python 2.2.2 (#1, Jun 19 2003, 11:01:48) 
    >>> fp = file('foo')
    >>> iter(fp) is fp
    0

    Python 2.3b1 (#1, Apr 30 2003, 22:25:58) 
    >>> fp = file('foo')
    >>> iter(fp) is fp
    True

(I don't know about 2.2.3.)

-- 
Steven Taschuk     staschuk at telusplanet.net
"Please don't damage the horticulturalist."
         -- _Little Shop of Horrors_ (1960)




From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Mon Jul 28 21:53:58 2003
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 28 Jul 2003 21:53:58 -0400
Subject: Python vs. Perl vs. PHP?
References: <7b454334.0307281002.41dae81b@posting.google.com> <bg3qkk$lmr$05$1@news.t-online.com> <7b454334.0307281742.10274598@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bg4k3m$8gb$1@panix3.panix.com>

In article <7b454334.0307281742.10274598 at posting.google.com>,
Fazer <faizan at jaredweb.com> wrote:
>
>This is a little off-topic, but I wish to know how would you turn a
>string (or data from a text-file) into an array?  For example, maybe
>turn each \n into an array.
>
>So a string like:
>
>"This is line 1
>This is line 2
>This is line 3"
>
>And so when you read that into a list called text text[0] would the
>"This is line 1".

s.split('\n')
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

This is Python.  We don't care much about theory, except where it intersects 
with useful practice.  --Aahz



From tl_news at nexgo.de  Wed Jul 30 06:36:18 2003
From: tl_news at nexgo.de (Tino Lange)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 10:36:18 GMT
Subject: Bottleneck: easy obscurity "encryption" via xor
References: <p6rdivscomvoraihqmac4piut7uqcpdvj1@4ax.com> <7xwue0pzcl.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <1d45gb.cjp.ln@217.11.196.167>

Hi Irmen, Bengt and Paul!

Thanks a lot for your answer.
Indeed it seems that I chose the slowest possible implementation :-)

I tested all your recepies and I would like to give a short summary of what
I found:

> def xorcrypt_old(str, salt = 255):
>     if salt > 255:
>         raise "Invalid salt! Must be < 255!"
>     return reduce(lambda x,y: operator.add(x, chr(y)), map(lambda char,
_salt = salt: operator.xor(ord(char), _salt), str), "")
> 
> def xorcrypt_irmen1(str, salt = 255):
>     if salt > 255:
>         raise "Invalid salt! Must be < 255!"
>     return ''.join(map(lambda char, _salt = salt:
chr(operator.xor(ord(char), _salt)), str))
> 
> def xorcrypt_irmen2(str, salt = 255):
>     if salt <0 or salt> 255:
>         raise "Invalid salt! Must be 0<=salt<=255!"
>     return ''.join( [ chr(ord(c) ^ salt) for c in str ] )
> 
> def xorcrypt_bengt(str, salt = 255):
>     if salt <0 or salt> 255:
>         raise "Invalid salt! Must be 0<=salt<=255!"
>     translation_table = ''.join( [ chr(c ^ salt) for c in range(255) ])
>     return str.translate(translation_table)
> 
> def xorcrypt_paul(str, salt = 255):
>     if salt <0 or salt> 255:
>         raise "Invalid salt! Must be 0<=salt<=255!"
>     n = len(str)
>     stream = array.array('B', str)
>     for i in xrange(n):
>         stream[i] = stream[i] ^ salt
>     return stream.tostring()


And it seems that Bengt's reciepe is the fastest. For very small strings
(<255 chars) the method irmen2 should be the best choice - it doesn' have
to pre-create the translation-table and does everything on-the-fly.

Have a look at some results:

File with 380303 Bytes
> Old Version  ... 511 seconds -> 744 Bytes/second
> Irmen's 1st Version  ... 4 seconds -> 95075 Bytes/second
> Irmen's 2nd Version  ... 3 seconds -> 126767 Bytes/second
> Bengt's Version  ... 1 seconds -> 380303 Bytes/second
> Paul's Version  ... 1 seconds -> 380303 Bytes/second

File with 6587435 Bytes
> Old Version  ... not tested
> Irmen's 1st Version  ... 71 seconds -> 92780 Bytes/second
> Irmen's 2nd Version  ... 39 seconds -> 168908 Bytes/second
> Bengt's Version  ... 1 seconds -> 6587435 Bytes/second
> Paul's Version  ... 16 seconds -> 411714 Bytes/second

Once again - thanks for your help!
Cheers,

Tino




From donn at drizzle.com  Thu Jul 10 23:42:18 2003
From: donn at drizzle.com (Donn Cave)
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 03:42:18 -0000
Subject: Embedding Python, threading and scalability
References: <mailman.1057884556.438.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1057894937.226792@yasure>

Quoth "Simon Wittber (Maptek)" <Simon.Wittber at perth.maptek.com.au>:
| [snip]
| >...the way to scale Python in a threaded environment is to call out to
| a C >extension that releases the GIL.
| [snip]
|
| To write scalable applications in Python, one must write the
| 'scalabilty-required' parts n C.
|
| Does anyone else see this as a problem?

Is it a problem?

I don't know all the reasons why an application might want to
compute in parallel on multiple CPUs, but I am guessing that
ordinarily it's about processor intensive computations.  That
isn't really Python's strongest point - you want to write the
heavy duty computing in C if you want speed.

If it's any consolation, I believe the ocaml Objective CAML
thread implementation has the same kind of global lock, even
though it does compile to efficient native code and would
otherwise be an attractive candidate for compute intensive
applications.  Don't take my word for it, but that's how it
looks to me.  Regardless of how grave the problem may be,
if there's no practical fix, we live with it.

	Donn Cave, donn at drizzle.com



From intentionally at blank.co.uk  Sun Jul 13 17:52:46 2003
From: intentionally at blank.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 22:52:46 +0100
Subject: anything like C++ references?
References: <b8c3hvsesjoumiboobml3nsnajtha99mp1@4ax.com> <mailman.1058129901.28248.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <plk3hv0s1m2egf4s34jo6vjedk0q8r2mu9@4ax.com>

On Sun, 13 Jul 2003 16:57:18 -0400, "Tim Peters" <tim.one at comcast.net>
wrote:

>[Stephen Horne]
>> ...
>> The fact is that 'assignment' has a common meaning separate from the
>> choice of programming language,
>
>Well, that's not a fact, although there may be much commonality among the
>(necessarily few, if you believe this) programming languages you've used.
>Python's assignment semantics are in fact common among languages
>higher-level than those of the Fortran/COBOL/Algol/C ilk.  For examples,
>Lisp, SNOBOL4, Scheme, Smalltalk and Icon are (very) much like Python in
>this respect.  So is Java in the end, although the underlying machinery is
>more complicated there.
>
>> and that the way Python handles name binding means that meaning is not
>> respected by Python for mutable objects.
>
>Python's assignment semantics don't vary according to object type.

OK then. With reference to another of my posts...

1.  Why are dictionarys called dictionaries (rather than references to
dictionarys or whatever)? Similar for lists and class instances.

2.  Why are the values of mutable objects always forced to be accessed
via a pointer (or reference or whatever)?

Note - whether it makes sense to allow in-place changes to part or all
of a value is not the same as whether it makes sense to reference that
value indirectly.

3.  Why is there no way to reference an immutable object via a
pointer, other than stuffing it into a mutable object designed for
some purpose other than simple pointer behaviour?

This excuse is, as I already said, invalid.

>Well, I can assure you Guido wouldn't change anything about Python's
>assignment semantics if were able to do it all over from scratch.  That's a
>puzzle for you to work out, then:  is Guido unique, or are all Dutch people
>that stupid <wink>?

Your words, not mine. I simply point out that no-one, BDFL or
otherwise, can be perfect.




From reply.in.the.newsgroup at my.address.is.invalid  Thu Jul 17 14:43:35 2003
From: reply.in.the.newsgroup at my.address.is.invalid (Rene Pijlman)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 20:43:35 +0200
Subject: html tags and webpages
References: <cdac0350.0307170711.43103d33@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1grdhvg02eg644i0lqb436vf626r05h7m0@4ax.com>

jeff:
>Basically what i want to do is create a script in python that will
>look at a website and pull off a certain type of html tag and anything
>contained within them tags,

This is what you need:
http://www.python.org/doc/2.2.3/lib/module-urllib.html
http://www.python.org/doc/2.2.3/lib/module-HTMLParser.html

-- 
Ren? Pijlman



From other at cazabon.com  Mon Jul  7 01:37:01 2003
From: other at cazabon.com (Kevin)
Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 05:37:01 GMT
Subject: Threading issue:  [Error 9]: bad file descriptor
References: <KaQNa.394960$Vi5.10189553@news1.calgary.shaw.ca> <mailman.1057519510.8812.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1G7Oa.376746$ro6.9153831@news2.calgary.shaw.ca>

My oversight, thanks!

I'm testing on Windows 2000 Professional, but have had other users report
the same problem on other Windows flavours (NT, 98).

Kevin.


"Andrew MacIntyre" <andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au> wrote in message
news:mailman.1057519510.8812.python-list at python.org...
> On Sun, 6 Jul 2003, Kevin wrote:
>
> > Has anyone else run into random IOErrors ([Error 9] bad file descriptor)
in
> > multi-threaded Python apps?
>
> Not indicating which of the platforms with Python supported threads you're
> experiencing this on doesn't give much scope for others to help...
>
> --
> Andrew I MacIntyre                     "These thoughts are mine alone..."
> E-mail: andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au  (pref) | Snail: PO Box 370
>         andymac at pcug.org.au             (alt) |        Belconnen  ACT
2616
> Web:    http://www.andymac.org/               |        Australia
>





From fredrik at pythonware.com  Thu Jul  3 03:14:10 2003
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 09:14:10 +0200
Subject: arbitrary long integer aritmetics
References: <bdtv1s$22dm$1@otis.netspace.net.au> <mailman.1057140372.20399.python-list@python.org> <bWDMa.86671$R73.10539@sccrnsc04> <3F035958.FADD276E@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <be0l37$c4$1@main.gmane.org>

Erik Max Francis wrote:

> Probably because he pasted in an incomplete transcript.

I pasted in an overly complete transcript, and decided to
trim it down before posting.  bad idea.

</F>







From zneptune321 at zexcite.zcom  Mon Jul 14 23:19:40 2003
From: zneptune321 at zexcite.zcom (Conrad)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 03:19:40 GMT
Subject: Stop Python from exiting upon error in Windows
References: <vh6jmv2f767h8b@corp.supernews.com> <n2o6hvcahk7dlmn9t26tvis8umnfg1tdeo@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2003.07.15.03.21.44.980226@zexcite.zcom>

Years ago, Nostradamus predicted that on Mon, 14 Jul 2003 20:06:14 -0700,
Tom Plunket would write, saying:

> Robert wrote:
> 
>> How can I stop the Python interpreter from exiting when an error occurs?
> 
> create a batchfile, tell Windows that the association of Python
> files is to that batch file, and put this in the file:
> 
> python.exe %1
> pause
> 
> 
> Or- catch the error in your mainline, and do a sys.raw_input()
> call on exception.
> 
> -tom!

Or the third, and admittedly brute force solution 
I use is to fire up the DOS shell, (click on START, 
then RUN, then type "command"). Depending on which 
Win you're running, you may want to run DOSKEY, 
which lets you cursor back up to previous commands.

Once you've got the command window up (and doskeyed),
cd to your python source directory, and type in
something like *C:\python22\python.exe mypythonfile.py*
(leave out the *s and be sure python is in the same
place on your machine.)

This doesn't keep the python interpreter from exiting, 
but it does keep the DOS window open to let you see 
your error messages.

I admit it's ugly, but hey, I mostly develop in
FreeBSD and Linux, where the CLI is your buddy ;-)

Conrad





From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Mon Jul 14 10:21:12 2003
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 14 Jul 2003 10:21:12 -0400
Subject: anything like C++ references?
References: <13t0hvsb7idh0g6ac3upe5k0qd6flc17ah@4ax.com> <mailman.1058126720.6756.python-list@python.org> <bet17l$gdp$1@panix3.panix.com> <mailman.1058150840.26704.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <beue8o$a47$1@panix3.panix.com>

In article <mailman.1058150840.26704.python-list at python.org>,
Ian Bicking  <ianb at colorstudy.com> wrote:
>On Sun, 2003-07-13 at 20:32, Aahz wrote:
>> In article <mailman.1058126720.6756.python-list at python.org>,
>> Ian Bicking  <ianb at colorstudy.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>(Admittedly, some confusion may occur because these very different
>>>operations use the same syntax:
>>>
>>>  x = 10
>>>  x[0] = 10
>>>  obj.x = 10
>>>
>>>The second and third are entirely different from the first.)
>> 
>> No, they aren't.  They are precisely the same; they just have different
>> assignment targets.
>
>Sure they are different.  The first is a primitive operation binding the
>variable x.  The second gets x, and calls x.__setitem__(0, 10), and the
>third is equivalent to setattr(obj, 'x', 10).
>
>The first is primitive syntax.  I suppose you could say that it could be
>reduced to operations on locals() and globals(), but I feel like that's
>a detail that is best not brought up ;)  The local and global scope are
>not as flexible as other objects The other two are really just syntactic
>sugar.

You've got a good point, but I think my point is just as valid.  Which
viewpoint is more appropriate depends on the circumstance.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"Not everything in life has a clue in front of it...."  --JMS



From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Jul 24 11:39:37 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 11:39:37 -0400
Subject: Associating file types to my Python program
References: <Xns93C2BBA60F6BEt45fs6vve@130.133.1.4>
Message-ID: <3F1FFDB9.4AAF1092@engcorp.com>

Psymaster wrote:
> 
> How could I do that? I'm writing an image viewer and I would
> want to associate all images to be opened with my proggie when
> they are double-clicked.

Not really a Python question, but if you specify your OS we can 
probably help better.

Assuming you mean Windows, just open Explorer, find the File Types
tab on the Folder Options submenu, and create New Type or Edit
the existing type.  For more information, Google can help you,
or you can look at how the Windows installer already set up 
.py and .pyw files in that File Type list, and copy that.

-Peter



From tjg at craigelachie.org  Wed Jul 23 23:35:03 2003
From: tjg at craigelachie.org (Timothy Grant)
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 20:35:03 -0700
Subject: SAX questions...
In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20030722115406.04110cd0@66.28.54.253>
References: <5.2.1.1.0.20030722115406.04110cd0@66.28.54.253>
Message-ID: <200307232035.04750.tjg@craigelachie.org>

Thanks to everyone who replied to this request. I'm going to try each method 
suggested just for the fun of it and see which fits my thinking patterns the 
best.

I appreciate your input!

On Tuesday 22 July 2003 11:02 am, Bob Gailer wrote:
> At 10:22 AM 7/22/2003 -0700, Timothy Grant wrote:
> >I've worked with DOM before, but never SAX, I have a script that seems to
> >work
> >quite well, but every time I look at it I think it's amazingly unweildly
> > and that I must be doing something wrong.
> >
> >def startElement(self, name, attr):
> >     if name == "foo":
> >         do_foo_stuff()
> >     elif name == "bar":
> >         do_bar_stuff()
> >     elif name == "baz":
> >         do_baz_stuff()
> >
> >There's similar code in endElement() and characters() and of course, the
> > more tags that need processing the more unweildly each method becomes.

-- 
Stand Fast,
    tjg.

Timothy Grant
www.craigelachie.org





From dkuhlman at rexx.com  Wed Jul 30 14:57:46 2003
From: dkuhlman at rexx.com (Dave Kuhlman)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 11:57:46 -0700
Subject: Python debugger
References: <VjUVa.1408$MK3.89@newssvr22.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <bg94ej$mf8en$1@ID-139865.news.uni-berlin.de>

Andrew Chalk wrote:

> I am sure that it has been asked before but could someone tell a
> newbie whether there is a Python debugger out there?
> 

See:

    http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/module-pdb.html

  - Dave

-- 
Dave Kuhlman
http://www.rexx.com/~dkuhlman
dkuhlman at rexx.com



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Thu Jul 17 13:41:57 2003
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 13:41:57 -0400
Subject: anything like C++ references?
References: <b8c3hvsesjoumiboobml3nsnajtha99mp1@4ax.com> <mailman.1058129901.28248.python-list@python.org> <plk3hv0s1m2egf4s34jo6vjedk0q8r2mu9@4ax.com> <hflQa.48826$wk6.12216@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net> <rp94hvc8fg6h91oe7ctqq9jn9ku3nlud1k@4ax.com> <slrnbh6fbc.72v.kamikaze@kuoi.asui.uidaho.edu> <tdo6hvo40qaga46ekamfe65opn2aaa9b41@4ax.com> <bf21le$5gu$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <HtWdnVU98Px7QouiXTWJiw@comcast.com>

"Bengt Richter" <bokr at oz.net> wrote in message
news:bf21le$5gu$0 at 216.39.172.122...

> Python's name bindings just aren't  your variable bindings,
> and Python's names aren't variable names. They're  aliases.

Exactly.  When Oswald shot JFK, JohnJKennedy, TheNNthUSPresident,
PT109.putative_author, and Daddy (in Caroline's namespace), being one
and the same person, all died.

Terry J. Reedy





From bgailer at alum.rpi.edu  Tue Jul  1 14:20:42 2003
From: bgailer at alum.rpi.edu (Bob Gailer)
Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 12:20:42 -0600
Subject: Good code patterns in Python
In-Reply-To: <1057079630.3f01c14ed962a@mcherm.com>
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20030701121604.01aa9318@66.28.54.253>


>Will Stuyvesant writes:
> > If you know that your source code is going to be used
> > later by others, then I feel that code with the pattern:
> >
> >     if some_condition:
> >         some_name = some_value
> >     else:
> >         some_name = other_value
> >
> > is often a mistake.  Much better, safer, would be:
> >
> >     some_name = some_value
> >     if not some_condition:
> >         some_name = other_value

This brings back the good old days of FORTRAN IV which had a 
single-statement IF and no ELSE. Thus:
       C = VALUE1
       IF ( A .EQ. B) C = VALUE2
Notice the indentation. Cols 1-5 were reserved for line # and col 6 for the 
continuation code. So Python is not the only indentation dependent 
language. Nor is it the first to use indentation to convey structure.

Bob Gailer
bgailer at alum.rpi.edu
303 442 2625
-------------- next part --------------

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From kent at NOSPAMspringfed.com  Sun Jul 20 06:56:00 2003
From: kent at NOSPAMspringfed.com (Kent Tenney)
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 05:56:00 -0500
Subject: distutils.core not in Debian python2.2 package
In-Reply-To: <qnkbrvq2glk.fsf@arbutus.physics.mcmaster.ca>
References: <pfjSa.730$zu1.8428@reggie.win.bright.net> <qnkbrvq2glk.fsf@arbutus.physics.mcmaster.ca>
Message-ID: <bAuSa.747$zu1.8518@reggie.win.bright.net>

Thanks

It surprises me to find distutils in a package described as:

"Header files and a static library for Python (v2.2)"

Kent

David M. Cooke wrote:
> At some point, Kent Tenney <kent at NOSPAMspringfed.com> wrote:
> 
> 
>>Howdy,
>>
>>I did;
>># apt-get install python2.2
>>
>># python
>>Python 2.2.1
>>...
>> >>>
>>
>>then checked docutils out of CVS
>>and did;
>>
>>docutils# python ./setup.py install
>>
>>ImportError: No module named distutils.core
>>
>>How do I install distutils?
> 
> 
> Install the python2.2-dev package.
> 




From intentionally at blank.co.uk  Mon Jul 14 23:52:34 2003
From: intentionally at blank.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 04:52:34 +0100
Subject: anything like C++ references?
References: <000301c348c7$3c501980$21795418@dell1700> <sag3hv4vf884ed7ouu5cv8ofnopp9j1t12@4ax.com> <bet1sd$ibl$1@panix3.panix.com> <sfa4hvkq1j7rg1iga5j3tk2cc4qpr6e5qk@4ax.com> <beueis$b1d$1@panix3.panix.com> <78c6hvgu599ku5denkkl7pgmd4n13t460i@4ax.com> <roy-204535.19175914072003@reader1.panix.com> <3F135328.89C1F89C@alcyone.com> <hmq6hv8amht3kis59pqgab5mbqekc5675c@4ax.com> <v3u6hv0tna44h5bjd38fkqjma5r437fv3k@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <pau6hv4p7ticslc32d4bt1rcap6kbd57jf@4ax.com>

On Mon, 14 Jul 2003 20:48:54 -0700, Tom Plunket <tomas at fancy.org>
wrote:

>Stephen Horne wrote:
>
>> True enough. And if someone creates a language in which '+' does
>> subtraction, I'm sure people could get used to that to. Doesn't mean
>> it's the right thing, though.
>
>It's often more useful to do what users want than it is to
>blindly adhere to what's right and correct.

True enough. The issue of how assignment is represented is trivial and
unimportant in the scheme of things.




From whisper at oz.net  Thu Jul 24 15:21:45 2003
From: whisper at oz.net (David LeBlanc)
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 12:21:45 -0700
Subject: running python
In-Reply-To: <bfp9uh$76a$1@news7.svr.pol.co.uk>
Message-ID: <GCEDKONBLEFPPADDJCOEIEMJMAAA.whisper@oz.net>

>
> How do you run files written with python if you don't have the
> compiler and
> stuff on your computer?
>

You need to expand your question a bit. Python is an interpreted language,
so the interpreter must be available to run Python scripts. There are ways
to bundle the interpreter with a script so that it will run stand-alone
though.

See: http://www.mcmillan-inc.com/install1.html

Dave LeBlanc
Seattle, WA USA





From gh at ghaering.de  Sun Jul  6 22:16:03 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 04:16:03 +0200
Subject: mod_python/good documentation?
In-Reply-To: <zM2Oa.83234$2ay.6845@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>
References: <zM2Oa.83234$2ay.6845@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>
Message-ID: <3F08D7E3.6000301@ghaering.de>

Tim wrote:
> ...just starting to work with mod_python. There are a number of details and
> pitfalls: any suggestions on where to get some decent tips and tricks. I can
> comprehend the provided docs but...they are not that great. :-(

mod_python questions are obviously best asked on the mod_python mailing 
list :-)

> Feel free to comment/recommend any other Apache modules for py.

It seems among the three (mod_python, mod_snake, PyApache), mod_python 
is the one to go.

There's still mod_scgi and FastCGI as alternatives. But these, just like 
mod_python are just for connecting your app to the webserver, not a 
complete web framework yet.

-- Gerhard




From Sibylle.Koczian at Bibliothek.Uni-Augsburg.de  Fri Jul 11 02:12:28 2003
From: Sibylle.Koczian at Bibliothek.Uni-Augsburg.de (Koczian)
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 08:12:28 +0200
Subject: Calling Excel module functions from python [repost]
In-Reply-To: <d3c9c04.0307100837.2c6a6ae7@posting.google.com>
References: <d3c9c04.0307100142.a49fd81@posting.google.com> <bejgq8$9j8$1@rzmux02.rz.uni-augsburg.de> <d3c9c04.0307100837.2c6a6ae7@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <beldgf$eii$1@rzmux02.rz.uni-augsburg.de>

Mark Carter schrieb:
> A further tip:
> For a function taking arguments, use
> xlApp.Run("func", "arg1", "arg2", ...)
> 
Thank you! That was something I tried to get right some weeks ago but 
gave up on. Moral: don't give up, ask around.

Koczian

-- 
Dr. Sibylle Koczian
Universitaetsbibliothek, Abt. Naturwiss.
D-86135 Augsburg

Tel.: (0821) 598-2400, Fax : (0821) 598-2410
e-mail : Sibylle.Koczian at Bibliothek.Uni-Augsburg.DE




From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Jul 10 10:30:31 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 10:30:31 -0400
Subject: Securing PyDoc and CGIHTTPserver
References: <2621b014.0307100535.449ad06f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3F0D7887.9D069ED0@engcorp.com>

Jon Schull wrote:
> 
> PyDoc's author Ka-Ping Yee has suggested that PyDoc be patched to
> prevent access from unauthorized IP addresses
> (https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=305470&aid=672656&group_id=5470),
> and that without such a patch, its not " suitable for running on boxes
> that aren't behind firewalls"
> 
> It's hard to know how much to worry about such things (Comments?).
> 
> However, even with the patch, IP addresses can be spoofed.  Here is an
> additional security tactic that might be adopted.
> 
> The port number used by pydoc is currently set by the user at the
> command line.  Many people probably use the example given in the
> python module documentation : "python -p 1234"    However, if the port
> were chosen at random and printed out, then only pydoc and the user
> would know how to access the pydoc server.
> 
> I'm considering a similar strategy for a server based on the
> CGIHTTPServer module, so comments would be welcome.

My suggestion: don't attempt to mix security into each individual
application in a piecemeal manner.  Use the proper tools for the
job, such as firewalls.  Setting up a firewall on Linux or WinXP
is nearly trivial at this point, and the learning experience is
worth the effort for those who are new to this, so there's not 
much excuse for doing it properly, IMHO.

-Peter



From ianb at colorstudy.com  Sun Jul 20 21:38:46 2003
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: 20 Jul 2003 20:38:46 -0500
Subject: Possible use of Python for a voting machine demo project --
	your feedback requested
In-Reply-To: <zXFSa.111727$Io.9572470@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
References: <P9DSa.111436$Io.9552373@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
	 <bff56e$8iv$1@slb9.atl.mindspring.net>
	 <zXFSa.111727$Io.9572470@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <1058751526.28094.2506.camel@lothlorien>

On Sun, 2003-07-20 at 18:53, Alan Dechert wrote:
> "Andrew Dalke" <adalke at mindspring.com> wrote in message
> news:bff56e$8iv$1 at slb9.atl.mindspring.net...
> > Alan Dechert:
> > > will change.  For example, when the voter selects a president/vice
> > president
> > > pair, the background will change; the non-selected pairs will be greyed
> > > while the selected pair will be highlighted (very brightly -- should
> light
> >
> > "greyed" in normal UI parlance means the option is no longer selected.
> > What happens if someone pressed the wrong button?  How is the correct
> > selection made?
> >
> Point (or click on) again to de-select.  This is one thing that may require
> a little voter training. I think it's easy enough, but then we'll find out.
> You could add a "reset" button but that would make an already busy screen
> even busier.  I'm not sure if that would be easier.

I think it would make more sense not to change the display of the
unselected candidates, but only to highlight the selected candidate.

The more you reduce the amount of color used elsewhere in the display,
the more color in a selection will stand out.  At least for people who
aren't completely color-blind -- but those people will just have to pay
slightly more attention.  I think font changes might confuse people. 
Thickening the border of the selected candidate would not.

If you have a dense ballot like you are proposing I would expect even an
experienced user would be likely to make one mistake somewhere, so it
should be clear how to fix it.

> > > 3) When "WRITE-IN CANDIDATE" is selected, a large widow (maybe the full
> > > screen) will pop up with a QWERTY keyboard in the upper half.  This
> > keyboard
> > > will have only three rows with the alpha keys (no punctuation or numbers
> > > needed except for perhaps the hyphen... no shift, all CAPS).
> >
> > No apostrophe?  What if I want to vote for "O'Reilly"
> >
> As a matter of fact, we won't let you vote for O'Reilly.  On second thought,
> you're right, I guess.  Okay we'll have an apostrophe available.  Anything
> else?

Also a hyphen, like for Mercuri-Neumann.  I assume it would be
acceptable to simply leave off any accent marks, umlauts, tildes, etc.
from a candidate's name (at least in the US), even though strictly
speaking an "n~" (excuse my uninternationalized keyboard) isn't the same
letter as an "n"... but no one will be confused by that, which is more
important than correctness.  However, whether Mercuri-Neumann becomes
MERCURINEUMANN or MERCURI NEUMANN would confuse and distress people
(even if those were likely to be counted as the same by the system).  

  Ian






From furliz at libero.it  Tue Jul  8 06:12:48 2003
From: furliz at libero.it (furliz)
Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 12:12:48 +0200
Subject: Tkinter window
Message-ID: <bee54v$nh8$1@stargate1.inet.it>

Learning Python, I'm making some exercise of little GUI application with 
Tkinter. I'd like to know if is it possible to customize the little 'Tk' 
icon on the top-left corner of the main window ( Tkinter.Tk() ).

Thanks to evryone who will resolve me this 'big' doubt :))




From e_fax_t at msn.ZAPME.com  Sun Jul 13 11:19:57 2003
From: e_fax_t at msn.ZAPME.com (Justin)
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 17:19:57 +0200
Subject: Any pure-python relational databases?
References: <pan.2003.07.12.14.11.19.428895@127.0.0.1> <2a897f11.0307121143.4a37113b@posting.google.com> <pan.2003.07.13.02.12.39.725180@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <3f1178ba$0$6533$afc38c87@sisyphus.news.be.easynet.net>

>> While not relational, have you looked at Metakit?

> Thank YOU, Wayne!!! :)))

Be careful, though: the metakit page states that
"There is no multi-user support", so I am not sure
this is the ideal choice for a web-app. Unless the
web clients just fetch dynamic pages and don't need
to _write_ to the db... I have been intrigued by the
library myself, but always thought this warning must
be there for a reason...








From mmuller at enduden.spam.filter.com  Sun Jul 27 14:11:02 2003
From: mmuller at enduden.spam.filter.com (Michael Muller)
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 18:11:02 GMT
Subject: Static typing
References: <LvdUa.905$DU.696@fe12.atl2.webusenet.com> <3f218ef1$0$27926$626a54ce@news.free.fr> <3f219c8d$1@nntp0.pdx.net> <lWAUa.25680$Gw4.21886@fe06.atl2.webusenet.com> <3f23ae06$0$21093$626a54ce@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <20030727.141111.1139901474.9957@demon.mindhog.net>

In article <3f23ae06$0$21093$626a54ce at news.free.fr>, "Bruno Desthuilliers"
<bdesth.nospam at removeme.free.fr> wrote:
> Michael Muller wrote:
> Interface documentation may be obtained in others ways (docstring for
> exemple).

Yes, and that's the way that I do it now.  But the problem with this is
that it's "non-binding": it doesn't impose any programmatic constraints.
Because of this:

-   it's hard to enforce automatically (if you want to make sure that all
programmers in your team are using the prescribed argument definition
conventions, you have to parse all the docstrings)

-  there is no global standard (I might use "name: type info" in my
docstring, you might use "type name")

-  it is hard to guarantee that the documentation is in sync with the code
(if you change the type expectations of a function, you can do so without
changing the documented expectations)

-  it makes type errors less obvious (you end up getting an attribute
error when you perform an operation on the value instead of a type error
when you initially abuse the interface)  Although, I must say that this is
surprisingly less of a problem in Python than one might expect.

> And I'm not sure static typing would optimize anything, but not being a
> Python (nor anything else) guru, I would not bet my hand on this... my 2
> cents...

In and of itself, static typing does not optimize anything.  In fact, it
could slow things down because you suddenly have to do typechecks all over
the place.

Static typing can be /used/  for optimizations because it allows for
optimized forms of attribute access - without it you must do dynamic name
resolution at runtime.

For example, if you want to resolve a method name, you currently have to
look up the method name in the object and its classes.  With static
typing, since you know the type of the object at compile time, you can
just reference it in a "vtable" (a virtual function table) associated with
the object.

In short, static typing brings us one step closer to "python compiled to
machine code".

-- 
Remove the spam and filter components to get my e-mail address.



From heikowu at ceosg.de  Tue Jul 15 21:08:46 2003
From: heikowu at ceosg.de (Heiko Wundram)
Date: 16 Jul 2003 03:08:46 +0200
Subject: Solaris 9, problem building Python 2.1.1
In-Reply-To: <20030716003454.GA2860@dave@alana.ucc.usyd.edu.au>
References: <20030716003454.GA2860@dave@alana.ucc.usyd.edu.au>
Message-ID: <1058317726.622.90.camel@d168.stw.stud.uni-saarland.de>

On Wed, 2003-07-16 at 02:34, Dave Harrison wrote:
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
>   File "/usr/local/lib/python2.1/socket.py", line 41, in ?
>     from _socket import *
> ImportError: ld.so.1: python2.1: fatal: libssl.so.0.9.6: open failed: No such file or directory

Seems like your lib(open)ssl is missing, or invalid. I think there is
some command-line option to configure which states whether to try to
link with SSL support (just turn it off), but maybe you'll have to
change the setup/Modules file to leave out SSL-support for the socket
module.

Or try installing openssl 0.9.6j (is the latest, I think).

HTH!

Heiko.

PS: I remember someone else experienced some problem like yours about
three months ago, linking Python with OpenSSL on AIX (iirc) wouldn't
work correctly. Maybe you could just look there.

PPS: I don't know too much about Solaris, so this is all just a guess...





From mail at heikokoehler.de  Sun Jul 27 10:56:23 2003
From: mail at heikokoehler.de (Heiko =?ISO-8859-15?Q?K=F6hler?=)
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 16:56:23 +0200
Subject: ANN: scintilla based, scriptable code editor CUTE 0.1.6 released
Message-ID: <3f23e794$0$6774$9b4e6d93@newsread2.arcor-online.net>

CUTE is a Qt and Scintilla based text editor which can be easily extended
using  python . It 's main purpose is to be an user-friendly source code
editor with a common graphical user interface. The editor is in an early
stage and its use is limited yet.

Homepage http://cute.sf.net

regards 

Heiko K?hler



From bogus at antispam.com  Mon Jul 21 01:02:49 2003
From: bogus at antispam.com (Alex)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 01:02:49 -0400
Subject: Flat file to associative array.
Message-ID: <pan.2003.07.21.05.02.47.924820@antispam.com>

Hello,

What would be the best way to convert a flat file of products into
a multi-dimensional array? The flat file looks like this:

Beer|Molson|Dry|4.50
Beer|Molson|Export|4.50
Shot|Scotch|Macallan18|18.50
Shot|Regular|Jameson|3.00

I've managed to read the file properly and get the individual lines
into a list, but I've got to turn this list into something that can
be stored in memory like a dictionary / associative array so I can
properly display the data.

Here's the code I have so far:

[Code]
#! /usr/bin/python

import string

file = open("definitions", "r")
    
while 1:
    line = file.readline()
    if not line:
        break
    else:
        data = string.split(line, '|')
        item = dict([('product', data[0])])
        print "You want a " + item['product'] +
         ". What kind?  " + data[1] + " for $" +
        data[3] + " ... right?"

file.close()
[/Code]

Thanks in advance,

Alex




From postmaster at 127.0.0.1  Wed Jul 16 09:33:44 2003
From: postmaster at 127.0.0.1 (David McNab)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 01:33:44 +1200
Subject: How about using python to write a CMS?
References: <bf38et$sp9$1@news.seed.net.tw>
Message-ID: <pan.2003.07.16.13.33.44.431005@127.0.0.1>

On Wed, 16 Jul 2003 18:21:38 +0800, ?????? paused, took a deep
breath, then came out with:

> To write a CMS, everyone is thinking about PHP, but, what do you think if I
> am using python to write a Content Management System?

If you want to minimise damage to your sanity, don't touch PHP with a
barge-pole. It's a nice easy language to learn, but once your code grows,
the built-in irritations of PHP will likely cause you much pain.

IMO, Python is the natural choice for most software when writing from
scratch. Deficiencies in performance are easily corrected via C layers at
the bottom-end.

Given the glut of PHP-based CMSs and the paucity of those in Python, I
think you'd be doing a great thing to build yours in Python.

Please think carefully about the environment you choose.

Twisted or Zope may feel godo to use, but will lock out a lot of users who
only have access to Apache-based hosts.

mod_python is another option, but not often available in commercial Apache
environments.

CGI is available on most web hosts, but suffers performance issues.

Lastly (forgive me those who are sick of me saying this), many web hosts
only offer Python 1.5.2, with no MySQL interface library. So you might
want to look at another database engine which can be installed without
requiring root access to the server.

Cheers
David




From tchur at optushome.com.au  Mon Jul 28 21:39:21 2003
From: tchur at optushome.com.au (Tim Churches)
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 11:39:21 +1000
Subject: pretty printing graphs
Message-ID: <200307290139.h6T1dLo12893@mail012.syd.optusnet.com.au>

An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed...
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URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20030729/20f89f31/attachment.ksh>

From tomas at fancy.org  Thu Jul  3 01:55:03 2003
From: tomas at fancy.org (Tom Plunket)
Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 22:55:03 -0700
Subject: functors
References: <3jc4gvgn5rb4c4008eedg958ee594lu8p2@4ax.com> <slrnbg55ts.c27.mirko-lists@zeibig.net>
Message-ID: <h697gvcaj3noku8n645id34gt8v2arjepn@4ax.com>

Mirko Zeibig wrote:

> You don't need lambda here, just give the Countdown class a reference to your
> callback-method by specifying it's name *without* parentheses :-).

Heh oh yeah.  The "instance-bound methods" I guess this is called
is what was really throwing me.  :)

Thanks- this is the solution that I was looking for.  Dunno why I
got stuck in the needing a lambda routine, but oh well.  ;)

-tom!



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Thu Jul 10 11:13:48 2003
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 11:13:48 -0400
Subject: PYTHON TO ANSYS
References: <mailman.1057796495.19578.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Yb-cneZGHugwH5CiU-KYuQ@comcast.com>

"satish k.chimakurthi" <skchim0 at engr.uky.edu> wrote in message
news:mailman.1057796495.19578.python-list at python.org...

Suggestion: DON'T SHOUT WITH ALL CAPS

>can someone throw light on the interfacing stuff in general and cite

There is an essay entitled something like Extending and Embedding with
Python which might help you and which should be available on
www.python.org.

TJR





From Aaron.Buhr at campuscommgroup.com  Wed Jul 30 16:18:08 2003
From: Aaron.Buhr at campuscommgroup.com (Aaron Buhr)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 20:18:08 GMT
Subject: Webware application question
References: <2LTVa.13085$Oz4.4738@rwcrnsc54> <kd89gb.2c9.ln@news1.interplanet.it>
Message-ID: <4KVVa.14886$It4.10267@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net>

    Gotcha, that thread is perfect.  I believe I understand now.  Thanks for
the help.

"deelan" <ggg at zzz.it> wrote in message
news:kd89gb.2c9.ln at news1.interplanet.it...
> Aaron Buhr wrote:
>
> >     Hello all.  I am looking to rebuild our corporate website from Cold
> > Fusion to Python/WebWare/Cheetah.  I am new to all three, so I apologize
in
> > advance if my questions are ignorant.  I do not understand how one would
> > cache database connections using WebWare.  At this point I do not want
to
> > use Middlekit, but I would like to compartmentalize all my database
> > connection code and cache it for performance.
>
> there's a module in webware called dbpool
> that caches DB connection.
>
> you may want to check this thread on the
> webware mailing list archive:
> http://tinyurl.com/ijhc
>
> i strongly suggest you subscribe both to webware anc
> cheetah lists. being a newbie too i've found very
> supportive people on both ML :)
>
> bye
> -- 
> email: goldicus1970 AT yahoo.it
> web: http://www.deelan.com
>





From 2002 at weholt.org  Sun Jul  6 18:59:11 2003
From: 2002 at weholt.org (Thomas Weholt)
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 00:59:11 +0200
Subject: Status of Python / Platform-specific support ??
Message-ID: <iR1Oa.11255$Hb.198255@news4.e.nsc.no>

Hi,

I've been using Python on both Windows 2000 and Linux for some time now. On
Windows I've used PythonWin as editor, Emacs on Linux. This has been working
ok so far. Now as Python will be a part of Mac OS X Panther will this affect
Pythons support for platform-specific modules in a big way? I'm not a
Mac-expert, but OS X is basically a Unix-clone as base with a Apple-GUI on
top, right? So most *nix apps will compile and run nicely on that platform?
With Python as an integrated part of the system, I'd be seriously thinking
about changing platform.

Can anyone enlighten me as to what the current status is for Python on Mac,
as for support, IDEs etc. ? Is Mac shaping up to be the best platform for
Python development and python lovers in general, or is Mac just catching up
to Linux?

Any thoughts on platform benefits for python developers; Win32 vs. Linux vs.
Mac? Drawbacks?

Best regards,
Thomas W








From manish.j at gmx.net  Fri Jul 25 16:10:19 2003
From: manish.j at gmx.net (Manish Jethani)
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 01:40:19 +0530
Subject: How to detect typos in Python programs
In-Reply-To: <x+VI/ks/K/yd089yn@the-wire.com>
References: <ZPaUa.6$gZ.133@news.oracle.com> <3F214977.AEB088C8@engcorp.com> <x+VI/ks/K/yd089yn@the-wire.com>
Message-ID: <HigUa.9$gZ.31@news.oracle.com>

Mel Wilson wrote:

> In article <3F214977.AEB088C8 at engcorp.com>,
> Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:
> 
>>Manish Jethani wrote:
>>
>>>Is there a way to detect typos in a Python program, before
>>>actually having to run it.  Let's say I have a function like this:
>>>
>>>  def server_closed_connection():
>>>    session.abost()
>>>
>>>Here, abort() is actually misspelt.  The only time my program
>>>follows this path is when the server disconnects from its
>>>end--and that's like once in 100 sessions.  [ ... ]
>>
>>You have no good alternative.  Why do you say it's impractical
>>to actually test your software before it's shipped?  Isn't it
>>more impractical to rely on your users to test the software,
>>thinking it should work?
> 
> 
> The proposed typo catcher would probably catch a typo like
> 
>         sys.edit (5)    # finger didn't get off home row
> 
> but it probably would *NOT* catch
> 
>         sys.exit (56)   # wide finger mashed two keys

1)  That's in a different class of typos.  Such things can't be
auto-detected in any language.  It will probably require close
examination by the human who wrote it in the first place, or
someone who has been debugging it.

2)  No on calls sys.exit() like that.  5, or 56, is probably a
constant defined somewhere (where such typos are easier to spot).

-Manish

-- 
Manish Jethani (manish.j at gmx.net)
phone (work) +91-80-51073488




From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Wed Jul 30 07:55:48 2003
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 12:55:48 +0100
Subject: PIL & TIFF transparency?
Message-ID: <bPFXEJAEJ7J$EwfY@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>

Has anyone done transparency with PIL & TIFF? I'm using PIL to generate
a preview TIFF for embedding into an eps file and am being asked for the
TIFF to support transparency. 
-- 
Robin Becker



From paoloinvernizzi at dmsware.com  Tue Jul 15 09:05:59 2003
From: paoloinvernizzi at dmsware.com (Paolo Invernizzi)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 15:05:59 +0200
Subject: path module
In-Reply-To: <oprscq7tq7ttxc4i@news.t-online.de>
References: <1057651068.5348.386.camel@lothlorien> <mailman.1057656790.5578.python-list@python.org> <182bcf76.0307141319.7b6fed7a@posting.google.com> <20030715090753.M6906@prim.han.de> <mailman.1058258788.6396.python-list@python.org> <oprscq7tq7ttxc4i@news.t-online.de>
Message-ID: <bf0u5u$86i$1@main.gmane.org>

Florian Schulze wrote:

> Try google with "cache:http://..." this worked for me.

Done.

Thanks for the advice.

---
Paolo







From staschuk at telusplanet.net  Thu Jul 17 20:04:10 2003
From: staschuk at telusplanet.net (Steven Taschuk)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 18:04:10 -0600
Subject: Problems retrieving items from a list using a reference rather than an integer - can you help?
In-Reply-To: <3f16bb84@shknews01>; from lol@lolmc.com on Thu, Jul 17, 2003 at 04:05:15PM +0100
References: <3f15ca92@shknews01> <3f16bb84@shknews01>
Message-ID: <20030717180409.A931@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>

Quoth Rogue9:
> After reviewing my question I realised that I should have posted the short
> piece of real code I'm working on and not tried to write some pseudo-code
> to illustrate the problem I'm having.Therefore I have printed the listing
> below which is quite short and hopefully won't annoy too many peopleabout
> the length of my post.

Excellent!

I'd also like to see a trimmed-down example of the input data
which causes the unexpected output.  If you don't mind, extract
from your pickle files sublists of, say, five or ten elements,
change the code to set masterList and skipFreqList directly to
those sublists and verify that the problem still occurs, and post
that, along with what output you see and what output you expect.

-- 
Steven Taschuk             "[W]e must be very careful when we give advice
staschuk at telusplanet.net    to younger people: sometimes they follow it!"
                             -- "The Humble Programmer", Edsger Dijkstra




From jjl at pobox.com  Sun Jul  6 15:55:18 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 06 Jul 2003 20:55:18 +0100
Subject: Search for mapping solution
References: <be9t66$2otne$1@ID-47851.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <87adbrzazd.fsf@pobox.com>

Markus Joschko <jocsch at phreaker.net> writes:
[...]
> I have a List:
> 
> nName - Number - Costs
[...]
> > lines = [['fred','333','0,10'],['sam','444','1'],['fred','333','0,50']]
[...]

Note that tuples were designed for that sort of 'mini-object' use (and
were not intended primarily as immutable lists).

lines = [('fred','333','0,10'), ('sam','444','1'), ('fred','333','0,50')]


though of course it's no disaster if you end up with a list of
3-element lists instead of 3-tuples, if it's convenient to build the
list with zip or whatever.


John



From xah at xahlee.org  Wed Jul 23 05:44:05 2003
From: xah at xahlee.org (Xah Lee)
Date: 23 Jul 2003 02:44:05 -0700
Subject: needs a logo
Message-ID: <7fe97cc4.0307230144.9119f89@posting.google.com>

it would be good if Bash and Python have a decent logo.

the current logos of simplistic font 
 http://cnswww.cns.cwru.edu/~chet/img/bash-org.jpg
 http://python.org/pics/pythonHi.gif
are homely.

--
some quick tips for good logos:

Good logo is not something generic, even if it is beautifully
rendered. Example of bad or not very good logos with this problem:

 old gnu hurd logo of just a generic sphere
  http://www.gnu.org/graphics/hurd-logo-sm.jpg

 Fresco Window system of triangles (fresco.org)

 bash of simplistic font
  http://cnswww.cns.cwru.edu/~chet/bash/bashtop.html

 python of simplistic font (python.org)

Better logos should be reminiscent to what it represents. Good
example's are SGI's computer rendered tube cube illusion, Sun Micro's
8Us that spells out Sun in 4 directions, Apple's bitten apple, Be
media company's eye-ear logo, NeXT's geometrical cube, X-Window's
sharp X, Redhat's redhat, GNU's gnu head, BSD's deamon tyke, MS
Windows's window, Perl's ugly camel, nVidia's eye, GNU Hurd OS'
recursive arrows, Shell's seashell, McDonnald's M, Taco Bell's bell,
Honda's H ...

Good logo should be distinct, an impression lock, even if it isn't
reminiscent of what it represents. For example, AT&T's death star
(globe connotation), Apache feather (Native American, panache),
Linux's penguine tux (connotes glut with food and sex), Qmail's arrow
distribution, Yamaha's tuning forks, General Electric's curlicue. Even
font alone can do very good if in distinctive style: IBM stripped
blue, coke drink's cursives, ATI's high-tech font, ebay and google's
colorful fonts.

Note that successful company's logo are not necessaily good. Examples
are: SONY, JVC, TOSHIBA, RCA, Microsoft. These are just unremarkable.

Good logo should not be overly complex. It shouldn't be photographic
or complex drawings, for examples.

Here's a related essay on the logo used by functional languages:
 http://xahlee.org/UnixResource_dir/lambda_logo.html

Thanks.

 Xah
 xahlee.org
 http://xahlee.org/PageTwo_dir/more.html



From zsolt+public5274 at mailblocks.com  Mon Jul 14 14:17:29 2003
From: zsolt+public5274 at mailblocks.com (zman)
Date: 14 Jul 2003 11:17:29 -0700
Subject: Any news on www.python.org being offline?
Message-ID: <5cf68ce0.0307141017.1f3fe18e@posting.google.com>

Website has been offline for more than an hour 11:18 PT.



From mike at nospam.com  Mon Jul 14 14:37:11 2003
From: mike at nospam.com (Mike Rovner)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 11:37:11 -0700
Subject: niaoeae aey ?inneeneeo ieoiiueeia)))
References: <37d6f77c.0307130932.1e3adf0d@posting.google.com> <3f11ac74$0$49101$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl> <3F11D94A.7050208@removeme.free.fr> <3F11BF87.9000208@v.loewis.de>
Message-ID: <beut7a$ug7$1@main.gmane.org>

Martin v. Loewis wrote:

> "?????, ?????????? ??? ??? ??????? ????? ??????(????????, ?????? ????
> ? exe-???? ?????????)."
>
> To see that, you have to read the message in windows-1251.
>
> I think this roughly translates into "Can you please tell me where to
> find the proggie freezer (which appears to be needed to create exes)?"

You are absolutely right.

> The program is called freeze, and it is located in the Tools
> directory, atleast of the source distribution. See the FAQ for other
> options to create exes.

I'm afraid he is not fluent in English, so I'd repeat you answer in Russian:

????????? ?????????? freeze ? ????? ? ???????? Tools ? ????????????.
FAQ ????????? ? ?????? ??????? ???????? exe-??????.

Mike







From belred1 at yahoo.com  Wed Jul 23 10:13:55 2003
From: belred1 at yahoo.com (Bryan)
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 14:13:55 GMT
Subject: [OnTopic] SCO is Going After End Users
References: <4868482a.0307211336.4ca9493a@posting.google.com> <ad496f8.0307230228.2767acc2@posting.google.com> <bflr29$7q2$1@news1.wdf.sap-ag.de>
Message-ID: <DKwTa.125914$ye4.90309@sccrnsc01>

what's to prevent this from happening to python?  all those c modules?
couldn't they have been copied from microsoft, sco, etc?   how is python
protected from others claiming the modules are copied works?

bryan

"Daniel Dittmar" <daniel.dittmar at sap.com> wrote in message
news:bflr29$7q2$1 at news1.wdf.sap-ag.de...
> Ville Vainio wrote:
> > It might be slightly on topic in that the future versions of Python
> > could theoretically (and developers willing), shall we say, not pay as
> > much attention for unixware as the target platform... perhaps even
> > drift so far as not being able to compile at all >;-).
>
> SCO doesn't want you to actually use unixware. You should only pay them as
> if you do.
>
> Daniel
>
>
>





From johnroth at ameritech.net  Tue Jul  1 20:40:56 2003
From: johnroth at ameritech.net (John Roth)
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 20:40:56 -0400
Subject: Circular Inheritance
References: <mailman.1057099023.14043.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <vg4aenl410636e@news.supernews.com>

"jinal jhaveri" <jhaveri at usc.edu> wrote in message
news:mailman.1057099023.14043.python-list at python.org...
> Hi All,
>
> I have one question regarding circular inheritance
>
> I have 3 files
>
> 1) A.py , having module A and some other modules
> 2) B.py having module B and some other modules
> 3) C.py having module C and some other modules
>
> Now I want to import Module C in B.py
>
> but C requires A.py
> and A requires B.py
>
> so
>
> B requires C
> C requires A
> A requires B
>
> and when I try to do this using
>
> from ...import....
> it tells me that you cannot import this.
>
> So any suggestions on this?

You've run into one one of those things that is only
understandable if you remember that Python *executes*
the module during the import process.

When you say "import" something, Python suspends
importing the first module, and begins importing the
second.

Then if the second one tries to import the first, it sees
that it's in the module table, and tries to find what you
requested; but it's incomplete since it's stalled at the
first "import" statement so it probably won't find
whatever it was looking for.

The best way around this is to eliminate the circular
dependency. The result is clearer and easier to
maintain.

Otherwise, you have to be very specific about what
goes where in each module so that any resources that
one wants have actually been loaded when the other
executes. In particular, "from foo import *" simply
doesn't work with a circular import. If it's not in
the incomplete module, it won't get imported.

John Roth


>
> thank you
> Jinal
>
>
>





From sholden at holdenweb.com  Sun Jul  6 17:17:58 2003
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Sun, 06 Jul 2003 21:17:58 GMT
Subject: Python is a gem ,another successful day ....
References: <ECUNa.628$kY2.37591@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au>
Message-ID: <am0Oa.461715$3n5.245818@news2.central.cox.net>

Graeme:

Congratulations!

I'd be interested in knowing some of the arguments you used to win over VB,
as I've been asked to put a couple of articles together suggesting why VB
users might consider switching to Python.

regards
--
Steve Holden                                  http://www.holdenweb.com/
Python Web Programming                 http://pydish.holdenweb.com/pwp/


"Graeme Matthew" <gsmatthew at ozemail.com.au> wrote in message
news:ECUNa.628$kY2.37591 at nnrp1.ozemail.com.au...
> Hi all  I previously made a post (
> Python is a gem, you need to keep pushing it ....)
>
> about how impressed I was with python and how im suign it in a proposed
> commercial app.
>
> Got a call on Friday a company with a very succesfull product in Visual
> Basic (Front End) SQL (Backend) wanted to move from Microsoft products due
> to all the problems with MDAC (ADO etc), XP networking issues .... and
> concerns with microsofts control ///
>
> Well after three hours looks like Python (and linux and mysql) may have
won
> again, explained perl (semantic nightmare but a great language) , ruby
> (great language but lack of libraries) etc, Vb's weaknesses and the need
for
> vendor neutrality anyway, as things move ill put some updates on here ...
> and tell you ho it goes, ....
>
> Hey, im trying very hard to promote it :-)
>
> Cheers
>
>
>
>





From jepler at unpythonic.net  Thu Jul 31 11:46:59 2003
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 10:46:59 -0500
Subject: regular expression
In-Reply-To: <guthivo3oliuj96l00kriof2hdev7oujfb@4ax.com>
References: <guthivo3oliuj96l00kriof2hdev7oujfb@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <20030731154653.GB30928@unpythonic.net>

These are all untested, because I don't have Mk4py or your datafile to
try it on.

I might write this:
    import re
    pattern = re.compile("^Ge")
    def func(row):
        try:
            nachname = row.Nachname
        except AttributeError:
            return 0
        return pattern.search(nachname) is not None

    vf = vw.filter(func)

If you're using a Python version with nested scopes, you could use them
in this case:
    import re
    def make_func(pattern):
        pattern = re.compile(pattern)
        def func(row):
            try:
                nachname = row.Nachname
            except AttributeError:
                return 0
            return pattern.search(nachname) is not None
        return func

    vf = vw.filter(make_func("^Ge"))

or you can make a callable filter object by using classes:
    import re
    class PatternFilter:
        def __init__(self, pattern):
            self.pattern = re.compile(pattern)

        def __call__(self, row):
            try:
                nachname = row.Nachname
            except AttributeError:
                return 0
            return self.pattern.search(Nachname) is not None
    vf = vw.filter(PatternFilter("^Ge"))

Jeff




From news at manuelmgarcia.com  Tue Jul  8 14:48:15 2003
From: news at manuelmgarcia.com (Manuel Garcia)
Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 18:48:15 GMT
Subject: single/double quote escape interpolation
References: <bech6q$h5i$1@news7.svr.pol.co.uk> <mailman.1057607231.26988.python-list@python.org> <bed9ga$mr7$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <jp2mgvs4mf9burqd2clklae1n64epdbqn5@4ax.com>

On 8 Jul 2003 02:15:38 GMT, bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) wrote:

>Might want to mention that somedict only has to act like a dict, not necessarily *be*
>a dict. I.e., supporting __getitem__ suffices, so you can synthesize anything you like
>from the key passed. E.g.,
>
> >>> class AsIs(object):
> ...     def __getitem__(self, key): return '%(' + key + ')s'
> ...
> >>> somedict = AsIs()
> >>> "why don't we drop by the %(where)s and %(dowhat)s a few?" % somedict
> "why don't we drop by the %(where)s and %(dowhat)s a few?"
>
>Maybe that was a little weird ;-) How about,
>
> >>> class RU(object):
> ...     def __getitem__(self, key):
> ...         res = list(key.upper())
> ...         res.reverse()
> ...         return ''.join(res)
> ...
> >>> somedict = RU()
> >>> "why don't we drop by the %(where)s and %(dowhat)s a few?" % somedict
> "why don't we drop by the EREHW and TAHWOD a few?"

This is a really great trick!

When I am debugging I always have a lot of code like this:

    print 'variable_name: %r' % (variable_name,)

And it bugs me that I have to type in the variable name twice.  But
using your trick, I might do:

##################

import sys

class VarReport(object):
    def __getitem__(self, key):
        f = sys._getframe(1)
        if f.f_locals.has_key(key):
            v = f.f_locals[key]
        elif f.f_globals.has_key(key):
            v = f.f_globals[key]
        else:
            raise NameError('name %r is not defined') % (key,)
        return '%s: %r' % (key, v)

VarReport = VarReport()

longname_a = 7
longname_b = 12

print '%(longname_a)s; %(longname_b)s' % VarReport

##################

Manuel



From syver-en+usenet at online.no  Tue Jul 15 11:51:55 2003
From: syver-en+usenet at online.no (Syver Enstad)
Date: 15 Jul 2003 17:51:55 +0200
Subject: [OT] sentances with two meanings
References: <mailman.1058278343.23104.python-list@python.org> <bf167a$pvt$1@panix2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <ufzl7rdno.fsf@online.no>

roy at panix.com (Roy Smith) writes:

> Harvey Thomas <hst at empolis.co.uk> wrote:
> > Also 'I was unknown to you and you deceived me'. Slightly colloquial
> 
> 
> Given the biblical meaning of "known", this could have even more than
> two meanings :-)

Does "to know" in english also mean to feel someone? In my own language
the direct translation of the english know also means to feel. I could
say (translated) "I know the cold", meaning I feel the cold
weather. 




From bit_bucket5 at hotmail.com  Tue Jul 15 10:20:00 2003
From: bit_bucket5 at hotmail.com (Chris)
Date: 15 Jul 2003 07:20:00 -0700
Subject: MySql autocommit off?
Message-ID: <fa7108b0.0307150620.49a9a30b@posting.google.com>

Is there some way to turn off mysql autocommit when connecting?  I see
no reference to "autocommit" in the db api doc.  I'm trying to use
transactions with mysql (using innodb tables), and it looks like I can
use "begin", but am wondering if there is some other way to just turn
off autocommit.

Thanks,
Chris



From peter at engcorp.com  Wed Jul 23 11:27:24 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 11:27:24 -0400
Subject: The global statement
References: <pan.2003.07.23.08.06.17.301516@intnet.mu> <bfm7m8$g9shl$1@ID-63505.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <3F1EA95C.E1623298@engcorp.com>

Thomas G?ttler wrote:
> 
> global BAD
> BAD=1
> 
> def foo():
>     global BAD
>     print BAD

Note: the first use of global above, outside a function, is redundant. 

-Peter



From bgailer at alum.rpi.edu  Fri Jul  4 15:11:14 2003
From: bgailer at alum.rpi.edu (Bob Gailer)
Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 13:11:14 -0600
Subject: strings problem
In-Reply-To: <Sea1-F1553Bw22cwSV00001719b@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20030704130521.01a53c40@66.28.54.253>

At 11:11 PM 7/4/2003 +0530, Jimmy verma wrote:

>Hello *.*
>
>Can you please tell me how can i have the output in no's, instead of 
>string from this program:
>
>#/usr/bin/python
>import re
>import string
>
>def csNumEncode(num):
>    if(num>=-107 and num<=107):
>        return chr(num+139)
>    elif(num>=108 and num<=1131):
>        return chr(((num-108)/256)+247) + chr((num-108)%256)
>    else:
>        print 'do nothing'
>
>re_num = re.compile("\-?[0-9]+(\.[0-9]+)?")
>
>
>def CompileCS(source):
>  result=''
>  for tkn in re.split('[ \n\t]+', source):
>    print "Token: %s"%tkn
>    if re_num.match(tkn):
>        result = result + csNumEncode(string.atoi(tkn))
>    else:
>        raise SyntaxError, "%s is invalid operator"%tkn
>  return result
>
>src1 = '50  800'
>
>t = CompileCS(src1)
>
>print t
>
>
>
>The output is
>
>Token: 50
>Token: 800
>\275\371\264
>
>
>Instead of this i want the output should be in no's like this:
>bdF9B4

When I run this I get:
Token: 50
Token: 800
some graphical characters that don't even copy into the e-mail (whose ord 
values are 189, 249, 180).

I have stared at the desired result bdF9B4 but see no relationship between 
that and '50  800'. What is the relationship (what are you wanting to 
accomplish)?


Bob Gailer
bgailer at alum.rpi.edu
303 442 2625
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From cubop at tin.it  Fri Jul 25 11:59:38 2003
From: cubop at tin.it (cubop)
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 15:59:38 GMT
Subject: about select.poll
Message-ID: <pan.2003.07.25.15.57.09.472872@tin.it>

A very short question:

how the poll call is supposed to behave
if a new file descriptor is registered 
in another thread while polling?

thanks
massimo




From user at domain.invalid  Tue Jul  1 03:57:25 2003
From: user at domain.invalid (user at domain.invalid)
Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 09:57:25 +0200
Subject: I have a list...
In-Reply-To: <20030701113915.226ae9bd.agg@astranet.ru>
References: <20030701113915.226ae9bd.agg@astranet.ru>
Message-ID: <bdret5$gp73@news.rd.francetelecom.fr>

Damir Hakimov wrote:
> Hi, All!
> 
> say, i have a function:
> 
> def f(*b):
>   print b
>   return
> 
> then i do:
> f(3,4,5)
> (3, 4, 5)
> 
> but i have list f=(3,4,5)
> f(l)
> ((3, 4, 5),)    
> 
> how can i call f function to result
> f(???(b))
> (3, 4, 5)
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> 
> 
You can use the keyword 'type' to check the type of your arguments
and return the appropriate 'format' according to the their types

Regards

Salvatore





From postmaster at pcexpert.ee  Fri Jul 11 18:35:15 2003
From: postmaster at pcexpert.ee (postmaster at pcexpert.ee)
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 01:35:15 +0300
Subject: Undeliverable: Re: Application
Message-ID: <318DD801337CD3119FEB009027CCDD78FCCC33@trantor.pcexpert.ee>

Your message

  To:      rar at pcexpert.ee
  Subject: Re: Application
  Sent:    Sat, 12 Jul 2003 01:33:10 +0300

did not reach the following recipient(s):

rar at pcexpert.ee on Sat, 12 Jul 2003 01:35:06 +0300
    The recipient name is not recognized
	The MTS-ID of the original message is: c=us;a=
;p=ay;l=TRANTOR03071122353GL6JAHC
    MSEXCH:IMS:AY:PCEXPERT:TRANTOR 0 (000C05A6) Unknown Recipient


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Subject: Re: Application
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From logiplex at qwest.net  Wed Jul 30 17:50:56 2003
From: logiplex at qwest.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: 30 Jul 2003 14:50:56 -0700
Subject: Misuse of <tab>
In-Reply-To: <RbTVa.8214$gU6.967766@twister.nyc.rr.com>
References: <3f27f0e3$1@news.broadpark.no>
	 <vifvcvqdd4mf4@news.supernews.com>
	 <RbTVa.8214$gU6.967766@twister.nyc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <1059601855.8920.4237.camel@software1.logiplex.internal>

On Wed, 2003-07-30 at 10:25, max wrote:

> The problem with spaces is that you need to do 5 times the work of a tab 
> to get decent-looking indentation :).

Or you get a decent editor that inserts 4 spaces when you hit tab and
erases 4 spaces when you hit backspace.

-- 
Cliff Wells, Software Engineer
Logiplex Corporation (www.logiplex.net)
(503) 978-6726  (800) 735-0555





From donn at u.washington.edu  Tue Jul 15 12:44:54 2003
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 09:44:54 -0700
Subject: PyErr_SetString() != raise ?
References: <bevkb3$mg8$1@solaria.cc.gatech.edu>
Message-ID: <donn-D974B5.09445415072003@nntp2.u.washington.edu>

In article <bevkb3$mg8$1 at solaria.cc.gatech.edu>,
 David Eger <eger at cc.gatech.edu> wrote:

> When I use PyErr_SetString() in an extension, python just keeps on
> chugging instead of acting as though a Python exception had been
> 'raise'd.  Why is this, and do I really have to write the Python code
> to raise an exception manually after I've used PyErr_SetString()?
> 
> Most recently, writing an iterator -- I write:
> 
>     if (nextEl == NULL) {
>       PyErr_SetString(PyExc_StopIteration, "Array index out of bounds");
>       return NULL;
>       }
> 
> in my iterator extension, but when I use my extension, I get an infinite loop:
...
> (and so on, and so on...)  The thing is, even though I *set* the
> exception with PyErr_SetString, to the interpreter, it doesn't get
> raised.  Am I just misinterpretting how PyErr_SetString is supposed 
> to work?

Sounds like it.  PyErr_SetString installs the exception, but it
doesn't raise it.  The most common way a C function causes an
exception to be raised is to return 0 (or NULL, if you prefer)
where a non-zero (PyObject *) is expected.  So you are doing that,
but I don't know if it's effective in that particular context.
Some functions have other conventions, for example type initialization
returns 0 for success.

More research required.  At any rate, don't worry about whether
the exception has been initialized, at the moment that is not
your problem.

   Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu



From mcfletch at rogers.com  Tue Jul 22 00:11:14 2003
From: mcfletch at rogers.com (Mike C. Fletcher)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 00:11:14 -0400
Subject: properties + types, implementing meta-class desciptors elegantly?
In-Reply-To: <bff6ep$fv3$0@216.39.172.122>
References: <mailman.1058532630.7342.python-list@python.org> <mailman.1058629890.30475.python-list@python.org> <bfc82v$hm8$0@216.39.172.122> <mailman.1058654317.6488.python-list@python.org> <bfe637$6rk$1@panix2.panix.com> <bff6ep$fv3$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <3F1CB962.7020508@rogers.com>

Bengt Richter wrote:

>On 20 Jul 2003 09:39:51 -0400, aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) wrote:
>  
>
...

>I was wondering if Mike was wanting to have class C(...) with property p
>(meaning the property object is an attribute of class C or a base), and
>wanting also to have the instance dict contain the data as c.p rather
>than, say, c._p.
>
Well, that's a regular property.  I have lots of those.  I'm looking for 
a meta-property here.

>IOW, does he want a sneaky way to avoid seeing the underscored or otherwise
>modified names in the object, so as to have a clean dir(c)?
>
Yes, that's part of it.

>Other than the problem of getting the class defined in a dynamically configurable way
>via metaclasses or other machinery, c.__dict__['p'] = value_from_property_fset should
>work, IWT.  The code below does that, though a little more parameterized ;-)
>
Yup, it all works fine for regular instances, the question is, how to do 
it for classes in a way which as closely as possible mimics what is done 
with instances.  Michael's code is, AFAICS so far, the only stuff that 
yet addresses this.

>What I'm not getting is why a dict proxy is getting in the way, unless there is an
>attempt to use the property mechanism to store properties-as-values in a class-as-instance.
>
Precisely that.  Using the same general mechanism, properties of a class 
modifying instances of that class, in this case, the class is a 
meta-class and the instances are regular classes.  The problem is that 
the dict-proxy of classes gets in the way of this rather straightforward 
combination of the two concepts of "property" and "metaclass".

>If so, does he (continuing 3rd person since I'm replying to AAhz. Hi Mike ;-) 
>
Hi! :)

>really want
>all that dynamic meta-stuff to happen every time a class is instatiated, or should the
>classes-to-use be created once at some configuration time (maybe system start or other
>special times), and thereafter appear to be equivalent to plain valnilla manually written
>classes with properties?
>
I think you're imagining much simpler usage patterns than I am.  The 
basicproperty hierarchy includes such things as lazy 
calculation/retrieval of values from database, default-value calculation 
in the abscence of explicit settings, logging/change notification, 
etceteras.  I want to make those services available for the dynamically 
loaded plug-in classes (as distinct from instances of those classes) in 
such a way that it seamlessly integrates with the rest of the system and 
doesn't warp the code too horribly.

The only thing blocking that from happening is a low-level way to 
set/get attributes in a class' __dict__ without triggering the 
__setattr__ machinery.  This is a deficiency in the Python descriptors 
API that I'd like to see fixed.

The plug-in classes do tend to have large numbers of regular (non-meta) 
properties as well, BTW, but that's not interfering with anything.

>If the latter, some kind of factory module that manufactures configured classes with
>configured properties and puts them in its global name space to be used in apparently
>normal "import m; inst=m.C()" fashion would seem better than metaclass inheritance magic behind C.
>If there are other configuration times than first-import, the module could have a special
>factory functions for that, IWT (as in cpc.py below). The properties of the final
>configured/manufactured classes could of course act with any degree of dynamism desired
>when accessed as attributes of the final class instances.
>
Not what I'm trying to do.  I have lots of mechanisms for dynamically 
creating instance properties from a database, creating them from 
data-structures, or creating them as names in class namespaces as per 
normal.  That stuff all works fine, it's the meta-properties which cause 
problems.

>BTW, do I recall somewhere seeing that defining __dict__ as a slot induces creation of
>a writable dict, and could that be used to get a dict in place of proxy for the trouble spot?
>
Nope, __slots__ doesn't work with type objects.

>For Mike:
>
>What does the following not address (I assume you can rearrange things to your taste ;-)
>that you want to do? (InfoSource is my placeholder as an example for whatever dynamic
>configuration of the ultimate class you want to do).
>
<snip>
It doesn't create active properties on the class instances 
(meta-properties) (as far as I can see, anyway).  See my response to 
Michael's post for an example of what's being attempted.

BTW, sorry for not responding immediately, it often takes me a while to 
sit down and work through large posts with lots of code to work through 
to understand the point of the post.  Michael's code was short enough 
that I could dash off a response before dinner, while yours was 
considerably more involved and required me to set aside time to work 
through what you were doing and asking.

Enjoy,
Mike

_______________________________________
  Mike C. Fletcher
  Designer, VR Plumber, Coder
  http://members.rogers.com/mcfletch/







From nav+posts at bandersnatch.org  Fri Jul 25 15:29:19 2003
From: nav+posts at bandersnatch.org (Nick Vargish)
Date: 25 Jul 2003 15:29:19 -0400
Subject: The global statement
References: <pan.2003.07.23.08.06.17.301516@intnet.mu>
Message-ID: <m3d6fy2ynk.fsf@tanelorn.bandersnatch.org>

"David Hitillambeau" <edavid at intnet.mu> writes:

> I want to enable some sharing between the two functions (foo and bar)
> using one global variable in such a way that each function can have read
> and write access over it.

Using the "global" statement seems unpythonic to me, for reasons I'm
too lazy to come up with good ways to express. :^) This is what I do,
if I need something like this: 

-----------------------------
class Global:
    """Generic container for shared variables."""
    pass

def foo():
    Global.somevar = 'set in foo'

def bar():
    print Global.somevar

foo()
bar()
-----------------------------

HTH,

Nick

-- 
#  sigmask  ||  0.2  ||  20030107  ||  public domain  ||  feed this to a python
print reduce(lambda x,y:x+chr(ord(y)-1),' Ojdl!Wbshjti!=obwAcboefstobudi/psh?')



From jjl at pobox.com  Fri Jul  4 11:30:38 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 04 Jul 2003 16:30:38 +0100
Subject: Python is a gem, you need to keep pushing it ....
References: <41A1CBC76FDECC42B67946519C6677A9A20BBA@pippin.int.etrials.com> <mailman.1057308907.31415.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87u1a28g2p.fsf@pobox.com>

delphiro <delphiro at zonnet.nl> writes:
[...]
> > For Windows GUI apps Delphi has a great screen-builder and a
> > collection of 3rd party component (many freeware) that puts
> > Tk/Swing/wxWindows/QT/GTK/everything else available to Python to
> > shame.
> 
> Well, part of that is true.. you can drag and drop almost any
> possible component on a form and start working. This takes more time
> in Pyhton (in my case with wxPython) but I don't think Python should
[...]
> useful. Easy does it, though I must admit that the GUI part will
> develop faster with the Delphi IDE (rough guess, about 2-3 times in
> development speed).
[...]

Have you tried PyQt and Qt designer (with Qt 3)?

Interested to know how it compares to Delphi / Kylix.

Probably there are many fewer 3rd-party (commercial or otherwise) Qt
components than there are Delphi components.  Of course, Qt 3 itself
has a lot of stuff there already (including database stuff, a very
good table widget, and a good rich text widget).

http://www.trolltech.com/company/third_party.html?cr=1


John



From calderano at sgaspa.it  Thu Jul 31 09:10:49 2003
From: calderano at sgaspa.it (Luca Calderano)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 15:10:49 +0200
Subject: handle <BR> tags
Message-ID: <002e01c35765$2a2b73b0$410100a4@utente65>

Hi guys...

I've done a subclass of SGMLParser 
to handle the contents of a web page,
but i'm not able to handle the <BR> tag

can someone help me???

      S.G.A S.p.A.
Nucleo Sistemi Informativi
     Luca Calderano





From drlinux at columbus.rr.com  Thu Jul  3 13:16:21 2003
From: drlinux at columbus.rr.com (Dave Reed)
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 13:16:21 -0400
Subject: python 2.3b[12]
In-Reply-To: <200307031200.25633.drlinux@columbus.rr.com>
References: <mailman.1057185306.22713.python-list@python.org> <3F037015.3D6D7034@alcyone.com> <200307031200.25633.drlinux@columbus.rr.com>
Message-ID: <200307031316.21192.drlinux@columbus.rr.com>

On Thursday 03 July 2003 12:00, Dave Reed wrote:
> On Wednesday 02 July 2003 19:51, Erik Max Francis wrote:
> > Dave Reed wrote:
> > 
> > > ./python
> > > Python 2.3b1 (#1, Jun 14 2003, 15:08:24)
> > > [GCC 3.2.3] on sunos5
> > > Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more 
> information.
> > > >>>
> > > 
> > > I thought maybe this was just someone forgetting to update the 
> startup
> > > message for the new beta, but I've seen other messages that show
> > > Python 2.3b2.
> > > 
> > > Any ideas on what happened?
> > 
> > Hmm, mine doesn't (built from scratch on Linux):
> > 
> > max at oxygen:~% python2.3
> > Python 2.3b2 (#1, Jun 29 2003, 20:30:58) 
> > [GCC egcs-2.91.66 19990314/Linux (egcs-1.1.2 release)] on linux2
> > Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more 
information.
> > 
> > Are you sure you're running the version you think you are?
> 
> 
> I even ran it directly from the build directory and it still reports
> b1.
> 
> I do have b1 installed in another directory (that was in the path when
> I compiled b2). Maybe I need to remove that version of python before
> compiling the new one. I used different --prefix= values when
> compiling each one, but since the other one was still in the path, it
> may have messed up.
> 
> Dave

Still get 2.3b1.

Here's the file size of the Python-2.3b2.tgz file: 8421285

Is that correct?

Dave






From jjl at pobox.com  Thu Jul 17 08:17:54 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 17 Jul 2003 13:17:54 +0100
Subject: Replacing rexec
References: <mailman.1058378245.3305.python-list@python.org> <bf455m$1sr$1@panix3.panix.com>
Message-ID: <87adbd73f1.fsf@pobox.com>

aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) writes:
[...]
> There's been some talk, but it's likely that a secure Python will
> require forking the code.  Note that it's already too easy to write a
> DoS attack against Python: 100L**100**100 will do it.  Conversely, if
> only trusted code is going into the server, there's no need for rexec.
[...]

I don't see how it's possible to prevent that, whatever language
you're using.

http://www.securingjava.com/chapter-four/chapter-four-3.html

| It is ironic that some of the most Java-heavy Web pages almost go as
| far as denial of service in doing what their programmers intended

<0.3 wink>

Isn't it true that the only solution to a program taking up too much
of a system's resources is to cap its resource usage, or stop it
running?  Usually, it's the OSs job to do that (which you might view
as almost the definition of an OS, perhaps) -- is that a bad thing?


John



From Sibylle.Koczian at Bibliothek.Uni-Augsburg.de  Mon Jul 14 14:21:45 2003
From: Sibylle.Koczian at Bibliothek.Uni-Augsburg.de (Sibylle Koczian)
Date: 14 Jul 2003 11:21:45 -0700
Subject: mx.DateTime.Parser.DateFromString('crap')
References: <bejgg6$9nq$1@rzmux02.rz.uni-augsburg.de> <uznjmqtmu.fsf@fitlinxx.com>
Message-ID: <451fb248.0307140616.3584c85f@posting.google.com>

David Bolen <db3l at fitlinxx.com> wrote in message news:<uznjmqtmu.fsf at fitlinxx.com>...
> Koczian <Sibylle.Koczian at Bibliothek.Uni-Augsburg.de> writes:
> 
> Double check that you're using a recent version of the egenix base
> package (probably 2.0.3 or later).  The parser module functions such
> as DateFromString were augmented to accept an optional list of parsers
> to try, which allows you to override the default.  The default does
> include an "unknown" parser which will default to the current date as
> in prior versions, but if you exclude that you'll get a ValueError
> exception if none of the other parsers match.
> 
> For example:
> 
> >>> import mx.DateTime
> >>> print mx.DateTime.Parser._date_formats
>  ('euro', 'us', 'altus', 'iso', 'altiso', 'lit', 'altlit', 'eurlit', 'unknown')
> >>> print mx.DateTime.Parser.DateFromString('crap')
>  2003-07-10 00:00:00.00
> >>> myformats=mx.DateTime.Parser._date_formats[:-1]
> >>> print myformats
>  ('euro', 'us', 'altus', 'iso', 'altiso', 'lit', 'altlit', 'eurlit')
> >>> print mx.DateTime.Parser.DateFromString('crap',formats=myformats)
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
>   <...snip...>
> ValueError: unknown date format: "crap"
> 
Exactly. Found this out after posting, of course, except that I
overlooked the "_date_formats" and typed in everything myself.

Thank you for not pointing out that it's all in the doc ... next time
I'll look more carefully.

Koczian



From mwilson at the-wire.com  Thu Jul 31 16:11:49 2003
From: mwilson at the-wire.com (Mel Wilson)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 16:11:49 -0400
Subject: <dict>.setdefault()
References: <kmgiivclivi0vhbgr6adel4dafflq6i6ir@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <FgXK/ks/KnZH089yn@the-wire.com>

In article <kmgiivclivi0vhbgr6adel4dafflq6i6ir at 4ax.com>,
Tino Lange <tl_news at nexgo.de> wrote:
>Hi!
>
>I just realized that <dict>.setdefault *always* executes the second
>argument - even if it's not necessary, because the requested item in
>the first argument exists.
>[ ... ]
>Is this really  by design? If there's a complicated, expensive to
>calculate/build 2nd argument (maybe a function call) then it's also
>quite ineffective to evaluate it just to throw away...

   Like they say, it's the way all functions, like
setdefault, work.  Arguments have to be evaluated before the
function is called.  Maybe you want

        try:
            some_var = some_dict[key]
        except KeyError:
            some_var = some_dict[key] = default_expression_value

in code where `default_expression_value` isn't ready to
hand.  Lazy evaluation is easy, as long as you don't mind
using statements.

        Regards.        Mel.



From not.valid at address.org  Wed Jul  2 15:10:09 2003
From: not.valid at address.org (not your business)
Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 19:10:09 GMT
Subject: How Do You Get Redirected Input?
Message-ID: <l6GMa.6947$n%5.1338@nwrddc02.gnilink.net>

I have a shell tool that accepts arguments on the command line. I would like
to check if the input is being piped in.  That is,
 
        $ mytool.py < cmdlst.txt

In this case sys.argv is empty. So I added

        pipein = os.read(sys.stdin.fileno(),256)
        if (pipein):
            input_args = pipein.split()
        else:
            input_args = sys.argv[1:]
 
Problem is that if nothing is redirected in, the script waits for a Enter
pressed on the the keyboard. Anyone know a solution to this?  Thanx in
advance for any help.



From adalke at mindspring.com  Tue Jul 29 20:29:59 2003
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 18:29:59 -0600
Subject: while (assignment):
References: <slrnbicopb.6gh.sybrenUSE@sybren.thirdtower.com> <2259b0e2.0307290844.6cbcad85@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bg73aa$3oi$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net>

Michele Simionato
> Second answer:
http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/202234

I just added this alternative

>>> a = [1, 2, 9, 0]
>>> n = iter(a).next
>>> while [x for x in [n()] if x]:
...  print "I have", x
...
I have 1
I have 2
I have 9
>>>

Again, don't this in real code.  Evil.  But cute.

                    Andrew
                    dalke at dalkescientific.com





From manuelbastioniNOSPAM at tin.it  Fri Jul 25 18:54:34 2003
From: manuelbastioniNOSPAM at tin.it (manuel)
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 22:54:34 GMT
Subject: decimal to binary
References: <Dh9Ua.13488$Df5.327750@news1.tin.it> <200307250653.18754.gherron@islandtraining.com> <mailman.1059141458.1696.python-list@python.org> <k%eUa.24457$Za4.615290@news2.tin.it> <RNgUa.11$gZ.241@news.oracle.com>
Message-ID: <KyiUa.15932$Df5.411294@news1.tin.it>

> if listByte[17] & (1 << 3):


Thanks!

But I don't understand completely the meaning of
& (1 << 3)

Can you suggest me a page in python on line manual,
or a tutorial?







From h.b.furuseth at usit.uio.no  Fri Jul 18 03:30:32 2003
From: h.b.furuseth at usit.uio.no (Hallvard B Furuseth (nospam nospam))
Date: 18 Jul 2003 09:30:32 +0200
Subject: A challenge to the ASCII proponents.
References: <mailman.1058278343.23104.python-list@python.org> <bf167a$pvt$1@panix2.panix.com> <ufzl7rdno.fsf@online.no> <3F142A58.80426AA4@hotmail.com> <2259b0e2.0307161620.4a9353f1@posting.google.com> <Xns93BB246FDDBCFJanC@213.118.75.80> <3F168011.3AEB3EFC@hotmail.com> <bf7ohs$jcg$0@216.39.172.122> <mailman.1058511510.7019.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <HBF.20030718w6de@bombur.uio.no>

Oren Tirosh wrote:
>On Fri, Jul 18, 2003 at 03:11:56AM +0000, Bengt Richter wrote:

>> <META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; CHARSET=iso-8859-7">

Needs to be charset=utf-8.  iso-8859-7 has no character number 947.

>> <h1>&#947;(...)

> Actually, you don't need the "CHARSET=iso-8859-7". It would be
> required if you used the bytes 227, 223, 227, 237, 249, 243, 234, 249
> to represent the characters. With numeric character references you can
> embed any character from the UCS repertoire regardless of the charset
> used.

&#<num>; seems to mean character number NUM in the current character
set, not in UCS.  At least on NS 4.79.

-- 
Hallvard



From torh at operamail.com  Tue Jul  8 10:30:42 2003
From: torh at operamail.com (Tor)
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 16:30:42 +0200
Subject: anything new on the ternary operator?
References: <y20Oa.11236$Hb.197832@news4.e.nsc.no>
Message-ID: <OxAOa.4802$os2.72457@news2.e.nsc.no>

(if C: x else: z)

Was this the winning syntax?  I think I saw it somewhere without the
parentheses, in something written by GvR.  This syntax would have been great
without the parentheses.  A bit messy with them, especially when they really
don't add any readability, like this
return if C1: x elif C2: y else: z

Why are the parentheses neccessary (and are they really)?





From sysop at qwest.net  Fri Jul  4 04:47:50 2003
From: sysop at qwest.net (System Operator)
Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 03:47:50 -0500
Subject: Movie
In-Reply-To: <200307040847.DAA45846@mail.oss.uswest.net>
References: <200307040847.DAA45846@mail.oss.uswest.net>
Message-ID: <200307040847.h648loiN000498@blackmagic.oss.uswest.net>

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From shalehperry at comcast.net  Fri Jul  4 14:04:50 2003
From: shalehperry at comcast.net (Sean 'Shaleh' Perry)
Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 11:04:50 -0700
Subject: Least used builtins?
In-Reply-To: <ad052e5c.0307040927.4bfdff07@posting.google.com>
References: <b03e80d.0307040620.2158fd41@posting.google.com> <ad052e5c.0307040927.4bfdff07@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <200307041104.50261.shalehperry@comcast.net>

On Friday 04 July 2003 10:27, Dan Bishop wrote:
> sandskyfly at hotmail.com (Sandy Norton) wrote in message
> news:<b03e80d.0307040620.2158fd41 at posting.google.com>... [snip]
>
> > I know there some plans to reduce the number of builtins in some
> > future version of python (Python 3.0?): So which builtins do you least
> > use?
> >
> > Pesonally, I don't think I've ever used the following: intern, buffer,
> > coerce
>
> I haven't used: apply, buffer, coerce, globals, intern, iter, locals,
> oct, slice, super, unichr, unicode.

apply isn't as useful as it used to be.

locals and globals is useful in some interesting ways.

iter is really new so no surprise you haven't used it yet.

most people don't play with octal so I doubt oct() gets a lot of mileage.

The unicode stuff is new and most English only coders don't use it.  But the 
rest of the world does.





From http  Sun Jul 20 20:44:34 2003
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 20 Jul 2003 17:44:34 -0700
Subject: Possible use of Python for a voting machine demo project -- your feedback requested
References: <P9DSa.111436$Io.9552373@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <bff6jb$e8goe$1@ID-67890.news.uni-berlin.de> <7xk7acai97.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <bffci8$dhir7$1@ID-67890.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <7x7k6cu2rx.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

"Ulrich Petri" <ulope at gmx.de> writes:
> Here in germany we also have elections where more than one thing is voted
> upon but if that is the case we have a seperate ballot for each of those
> descisions and they all go into different "boxes" and are counted by
> different people.

What is a typical number of such boxes?

In a US election, the number of "boxes" that would be needed is
usually more than 20 and can be as many as 50.  Not just politicians
but also judges, sheriffs, and ballot questions like whether to build
a new school in a given location, all get voted on.

Do you really want to fill out 50 separate pieces of paper in a voting
booth, and then make sure to deposit each one in its own correct
separate box?



From bignose-hates-spam at and-benfinney-does-too.id.au  Thu Jul 31 18:26:05 2003
From: bignose-hates-spam at and-benfinney-does-too.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: 1 Aug 2003 08:16:05 +0950
Subject: Misuse of <tab>
References: <3f27f0e3$1@news.broadpark.no> <3f28287e$0$103$8f4e7992@newsreader.goldengate.net> <9rehivsavhereijf36nhla96krct4s1fmn@4ax.com> <mailman.1059649487.17930.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrnbij71c.ejq.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>

On Thu, 31 Jul 2003 13:03:15 +0200, Gerhard H?ring wrote:
> Christopher Koppler wrote:
>> [tab settings]
>> And, as others have said, DON'T use 5.
> 
> I'd still like to hear a reason for this.

    <http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=slrnbih09e.vpm.bignose-hates-spam%40iris.polar.local>

-- 
 \       "During the Middle Ages, probably one of the biggest mistakes |
  `\   was not putting on your armor because you were 'just going down |
_o__)                                 to the corner.'"  -- Jack Handey |
Ben Finney <http://bignose.squidly.org/>



From p-abel at t-online.de  Sat Jul 19 06:41:36 2003
From: p-abel at t-online.de (Peter Abel)
Date: 19 Jul 2003 03:41:36 -0700
Subject: Python dictionary syntax, need help
References: <56ba0aea.0307181142.7401aa02@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <13a533e8.0307190241.69252b08@posting.google.com>

crewr at daydots.com (Crew Reynolds) wrote in message news:<56ba0aea.0307181142.7401aa02 at posting.google.com>...
> I want to create a dictionary of note on/off timings and access it by
> the name of the object. The following code works for one row.
> 
> a = "Hammer1" 
> b = [5,45,45,45,45,50,55,57,59,61,60,59] 
> 
> notes = {a:b} 
> print notes["Hammer1"][3] 
> >>> 45 
> 
> The problem is, I want to load the data from a file to populate
> variables a and b and build a dictionary for "Hammer1" thru
> "Hammer10". That way, I can stick the name of the object in the array
> index and receive a list of note timings that I can index with an
> ordinal as in the above example.
> 
> This is straight Python syntax but I'm hoping someone has done this or
> understands the syntax better than I.
> 
> Thanks! Alternative solutions to this concept would be greatly
> appreciated.

>>> # Reading the note_txt from file and splitting it by lines
>>> # by split('\n') and not by realines to avoid '\n' at the end of
line
>>> note_lines=file('notesfile.txt').read().split('\n')
>>> # If the last line had a '\n' at the end you'll get
>>> # an empty list for the last line. We'll get rid of it.
>>> if not len(note_lines[-1].strip()):del note_lines[-1]
... 
>>> # Splitting the lines by comma to get a list for each line
>>> # It's supposed that the first item is the key
>>> note_lists=map(lambda line:line.split(','),note_lines)
>>> # Making a dict from tuples(key,list), where the key is the
>>> # 1st item of note_list[i] and list is the rest of note_list[i]
>>> notes=dict( map(lambda l: (l[0],l[1:]) , note_lists) )
>>> # The result:
>>> for (k,v) in notes.items():
... 	print '%-10s: %s'%(k,v)
... 
hammer1   : [' 5', ' 45', ' 45', ' 45', ' 45', ' 50', ' 55', ' 57', '
59', ' 61', ' 60', ' 59']
hammer3   : [' 35', ' 345', ' 345', ' 345', ' 345', ' 350', ' 355', '
357', ' 359', ' 361', ' 360', ' 359']
hammer2   : [' 25', ' 245', ' 245', ' 245', ' 245', ' 250', ' 255', '
257', ' 259', ' 261', ' 260', ' 259']
hammer4   : [' 45', ' 445', ' 445', ' 445', ' 445', ' 450', ' 455', '
457', ' 459', ' 461', ' 460', ' 459']
>>> 
Regards Peter



From kylotan at hotmail.com  Wed Jul  9 05:29:13 2003
From: kylotan at hotmail.com (Kylotan)
Date: 9 Jul 2003 02:29:13 -0700
Subject: urllib2 for HTTPS/SSL
References: <153fa67.0307080233.2f7abdf5@posting.google.com> <mailman.1057668851.8514.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <153fa67.0307090129.2d6bef57@posting.google.com>

Jeremy Hylton <jeremy at alum.mit.edu> wrote in message news:<mailman.1057668851.8514.python-list at python.org>...
> On Tue, 2003-07-08 at 06:33, Kylotan wrote:
> > I have no idea how (or if) to use the 'HTTPSHandler' object, or what
> > the correct way for me to request an SSL connection is. Does anybody
> > have any hints? And additionally, is there any chance of the official
> > documentation on this useful-looking module being improved?
> 
> Unless I misunderstand your intent, you don't need to use the Handler
> object directly.  HTTPS support is provided automatically, so long as
> your local Python has SSL support.  (It should.)

Ok, so what you're saying is that the stuff documented in:
"Python Library Reference - 11.5.14 HTTPSHandler Objects"
is purely an implementational detail?  In other words, they're
specifying examples of Handler classes in case you wanted to see how
to write one yourself, but to use the urllib2 library normally you'd
never need to really know this?

I'm guessing the OpenerDirector object tries the URL with each
BaseHandler-derived object to see which one should handle it.

Thanks,

K.



From bgailer at alum.rpi.edu  Sun Jul  6 19:19:19 2003
From: bgailer at alum.rpi.edu (Bob Gailer)
Date: Sun, 06 Jul 2003 17:19:19 -0600
Subject: anything new on the ternary operator?
In-Reply-To: <y20Oa.11236$Hb.197832@news4.e.nsc.no>
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20030706171559.02597288@66.28.54.253>

At 10:59 PM 7/6/2003 +0200, Tor wrote:

>What's the current status on the ternary operator that may or may not be
>added to python.  Haven't heard much about that since the vote was announced
>for a couple of months ago.  What's the best way to follow that dicussion?
>Or are we just waiting for the developers to make their decision?

Last I heard it was killed by Guido, which makes me wonder why we spent so 
much time discussing and voting. If he did not want it I wish he had killed 
it at the start. I thought the vote was to determine the best choice, and I 
was looking forward to having it.

<grumble>Makes me wonder about the whole PEP process. Why bother! </grumble>

Bob Gailer
bgailer at alum.rpi.edu
303 442 2625
-------------- next part --------------

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Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.492 / Virus Database: 291 - Release Date: 6/24/2003

From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Jul 14 08:04:29 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 08:04:29 -0400
Subject: A few beginning questions
References: <3f129a8a$1@mail.hmgcc.gov.uk>
Message-ID: <3F129C4D.F4CF0BB8@engcorp.com>

richardc wrote:
> 
> Ive just started playing with Python and have a couple of questions.
> 
> Im looking for an agument parsing library (from the command line), Ive come
> across optik and argtools.  What other ones are there are any of them any
> good, is there a 'standard' lib for doing this.

getopt is a long-standing standard module for this, and I find it very
simple and functional for small utilities, while Optik has been assimilated
in the latest release as standard module optparse, as you can see from this page:
http://www.python.org/dev/doc/devel/whatsnew/node18.html#SECTION0001820000000000000000

> Also how should I '#define' magic numbers in Python.  I spent ages looking
> around for a 'define' statement or anything that will allow me to create a
> constant value 'object'.  Am I missing something very obvious ?

Python has no "constants" per se, but you shouldn't need them either.  Just
define variables, following the convention of using ALLCAPS to name them:

  MY_CONSTANT = 5

-Peter



From skip at pobox.com  Wed Jul  2 18:43:20 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 17:43:20 -0500
Subject: Remote db connections possible with DCOracle2?
In-Reply-To: <200307021518.22410.dave@pythonapocrypha.com>
References: <16131.19186.190625.679324@montanaro.dyndns.org>
        <200307021518.22410.dave@pythonapocrypha.com>
Message-ID: <16131.24584.242446.711276@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    Dave> Use this style of connection string (all one line if it wraps):

    Dave> user/password@(description=(address=(host=10.20.30.40)(protocol=tcp)(port=1521))(connect_data=(sid=dbsid)))

Thanks.  The example or two I saw indicated something like

    user/password at dbname

where I presume "dbname" is looked up in tnsnames.ora.

Skip




From mfranklin1 at gatwick.westerngeco.slb.com  Mon Jul 21 04:01:24 2003
From: mfranklin1 at gatwick.westerngeco.slb.com (Martin Franklin)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 09:01:24 +0100
Subject: Python scripting with Paint Shop Pro 8.0
In-Reply-To: <kl3lhvgh5iillo5g9jvff92qkc8i2022nm@4ax.com>
References: <kl3lhvgh5iillo5g9jvff92qkc8i2022nm@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <200307210901.24335.mfranklin1@gatwick.westerngeco.slb.com>

On Sunday 20 July 2003 13:48, Marc Wilson wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I'm a complete Python newbie, though I know at least one regular in here.
> :)
>
> I've just got Paint Shop Pro 8.0, and the functionality of the old
> ImageRobot add-on has been replaced with the new Python Scripting.
>
> So far, OK.
>
> What I'm trying to determine is: can I run these scripts from a
> command-line invocation?  I want to use the scripts to automatically
> convert files as they arrive, uploaded onto a website, not interactively.
>
> Has anyone played with this?
> --
> Marc Wilson
>

Marc,

This is not an answer to your question... but if you just want to convert an 
image file into another format then upload it to a server you could use a 
pure python solution (well pure python + PIL)  

PIL is here:- 

http://www.pythonware.com/products/pil/

In fact a quick browse through the handbook and I found this:-

http://www.pythonware.com/library/pil/handbook/pilconvert.htm

and I quote:-

"""
Convert an image from one format to another. The output format is determined 
by the target extension, unless explicitly specified with the -c option.

    $ pilconvert lena.tif lena.png
    $ pilconvert -c JPEG lena.tif lena.tmp


"""

To upload the image to a server you could use the ftplib module...


Regards
Martin

















From ta-meyer at ihug.co.nz  Fri Jul 11 02:14:07 2003
From: ta-meyer at ihug.co.nz (Tony Meyer)
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 18:14:07 +1200
Subject: IMAP BODYSTRUCTURE format & the email.Messages
In-Reply-To: <1ED4ECF91CDED24C8D012BCF2B034F13025656A5@its-xchg4.massey.ac.nz>
Message-ID: <1ED4ECF91CDED24C8D012BCF2B034F130212AAFE@its-xchg4.massey.ac.nz>

[Apologies for the cross-post].

Does anyone know of existing code to convert/format/flatten an email.Message
into the correct format for IMAP's BODYSTRUCTURE request?  (it basically
breaks down all the MIME parts of the message).  It can use twisted or
imaplib, or neither, I don't care.

Thanks,
Tony Meyer





From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Wed Jul 23 03:45:32 2003
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 08:45:32 +0100
Subject: How does Mr. Martelli's Borg recipe work ?
References: <764b8294.0307221520.18017b09@posting.google.com>
 <mailman.1058930376.7219.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <mXdYCLAc0jH$EwJR@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>

In article <mailman.1058930376.7219.python-list at python.org>, Ian Bicking
<ianb at colorstudy.com> writes
>
>class _Something:
>   ...
>
>TheSomething = _Something()
>
>
>Then just never refer to _Something again.  Import TheSomething (calling
>it whatever you want), and use it, not its class.  It's a singleton
>because there's only one of them.  Simplicity!
>
>  Ian
>
....can't one do
class TheSomething:
   ....

TheSomething = TheSomething()

then it's harder to get at the class which presumably is now only
available as TheSomething.__class__
-- 
Robin Becker



From icebeing1 at dslextreme.com  Fri Jul 25 14:53:03 2003
From: icebeing1 at dslextreme.com (C. Martin)
Date: 25 Jul 2003 11:53:03 -0700
Subject: win32com exception when trying to invoke IE 6.0
Message-ID: <2e873c65.0307251053.c9b32ce@posting.google.com>

Hi all,

   I have a script where it goes around opening 30 Internet Exploder
windows
and uses one of them to browse 20 websites (and some of those sites
have
nasty pop-ups too, but what can you do?)

   Anyway, I'm running into the following exception:

refreshing website:  http://www.quicktime.com/
refreshing website:  http://www.hightimes.com/
refreshing website:  http://www.anonymizer.com/
refreshing website:  http://www.term-papers-4u.com/
refreshing website:  http://www.careerbuilder.com/
refreshing website:  http://www.ew.com/
refreshing website:  http://www.moviefone.com/
refreshing website:  http://www.tvguide.com/
refreshing website:  http://www.gambling.com/
refreshing website:  http://www.rotten.com/
refreshing website:  http://www.humorlinks.com/
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "D:\pyscripts\urlbrowse2.py", line 86, in ?
    b.Navigate(string.rstrip(url_list[u]))
  File "win32com\gen_py\EAB22AC0-30C1-11CF-A7EB-0000C05BAE0Bx0x1x1.py",
line 112
4, in Navigate
pywintypes.com_error: (-2147352567, 'Exception occurred.', (0, None,
None, None,
 0, -2147024726), None)

I have seen similar posts on this issue in the past, and I recall Mark
H. mentioning the script can wait for IE to finish loading a page
before terminating the browser.  I'm wondering if anyone out there has
found a solution to this problem?

Cheers, Charles M.



From tjenista at ball.com  Tue Jul  1 08:20:10 2003
From: tjenista at ball.com (Todd Jenista)
Date: 1 Jul 2003 05:20:10 -0700
Subject: Unicode problem.... as always
Message-ID: <631aeedc.0307010420.685500e9@posting.google.com>

I have a parser I am building with python and, unfortunately, people
have decided to put unicode characters in the files I am parsing.
The parser seems to have a fit when I search for one \uXXXX symbol,
and there is another unicode symbol in the file. In this case, a
search and replace for ? with a ? in the file causes the infamous
ordinal error.
My quick-fix, because they have good context, is to change them both
to "UTF8", and then attempt to replace the UTF8 at the end with the
original ?. The problem is that I am getting a ?? when I try to
re-insert using \u00b5 which is the UTF8 code.
Words of wisdom would be greatly appreciated.



From adechert at earthlink.net  Sun Jul 20 21:03:59 2003
From: adechert at earthlink.net (Alan Dechert)
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 18:03:59 -0700
Subject: Possible use of Python for a voting machine demo project -- your feedback requested
References: <1ED4ECF91CDED24C8D012BCF2B034F130212AB6B@its-xchg4.massey.ac.nz>
Message-ID: <006201c34f23$f8a63e40$960277d8@alandech>

----- Original Message -----
From: "Tony Meyer" <ta-meyer at ihug.co.nz>
To: "'Alan Dechert'" <adechert at earthlink.net>; <python-list at python.org>
Sent: Sunday, July 20, 2003 5:18 PM
Subject: RE: Possible use of Python for a voting machine demo project --
your feedback requested


> > > > 3) When "WRITE-IN CANDIDATE" is selected, a large widow
> > > > (maybe the full screen) will pop up with a QWERTY keyboard
> > > >  in the upper half.  This keyboard
> > > > will have only three rows with the alpha keys (no punctuation or
> > > > numbers needed except for perhaps the hyphen... no shift, all CAPS).
> > >
> > > No apostrophe?  What if I want to vote for "O'Reilly"
> > >
> > As a matter of fact, we won't let you vote for O'Reilly.  On
> > second thought, you're right, I guess.  Okay we'll have an
> > apostrophe available.  Anything else?
>
> What about non-English names?  Names with umlauts, accents, Asian
> characters, and so on?
>
Good question.  Eventually, our on-screen keyboard would enable the voter to
choose accented characters.  I'm thinking there would be an "ACCENTED
CHARACTER" button that you'd select such that when you select "E" on the
keyboard after pushing the button you'd get a drop down list of accented Es
from which you could select the desired one.  I'm not sure if we'll
implement that in the demo (probably not, actually).

Probably, Asian characters will only be available if and when the voter has
chosen the Asian language at the outset (as it is, the non-English languages
available varies from county to county and state to state... it may even
vary from city-to-city within counties.  Many, if not most, jurisdictions
only offer English language ballots).  Then, the keyboard would behave the
way Asian language keyboards normally behave.  For the demo, I think we will
have at most one other language (probably Spanish) to select.

When the printout of choices is given when a non-English language has been
selected, I think the English equivalent will be printed along with the
translation.  When it comes to write-in votes, we probably won't be able to
do that.  This only becomes an issue where enough write-in votes are
recorded such that it could affect the outcome.  Right now, election law
varies a great deal on how to deal with write-ins.  In some cases (e.g.,
Florida) write-ins have to meet some sort of qualifications (no. of
signatures) before they can be written in.  Again, this is something to look
at in some depth when our full blown voting study is underway.

Alan Dechert







From ben at dadsetan.com  Sun Jul 13 16:57:05 2003
From: ben at dadsetan.com (Behrang Dadsetan)
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 22:57:05 +0200
Subject: Newbie with sort text file question
In-Reply-To: <86d2ca4.0307121146.3deb854a@posting.google.com>
References: <86d2ca4.0307121146.3deb854a@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3F11C7A1.8010406@dadsetan.com>

stuartc wrote:
> Hi:
> 
> Here's the text file: 
> 
> banana_c \\yellow
> apple_a \\green
> orange_b \\yellow
> banana_d \\green
> orange_a \\orange
> apple_w \\yellow
> banana_e \\green
> orange_x \\yellow
> orange_y \\orange
> 
> I would like two output files:
> 
> 1) Sorted like this, by the fruit name (the name before the dash)
> 
> 2) Then summarized like this, ordered with the highest occurances
> first:
Here is some mostly tested code ;)

import re

file = open ("textfile.txt")  # your file name instead of textfile.txt
alllines = list(file.readlines())
file.close()

alllines.sort()

fruitre = re.compile('^[a-z]+')
fruits = {}
for line in alllines:
     fruitresult = fruitre.search(line)
     print line
     if fruitresult:
       fruit = fruitresult.group(0)
       fruits.setdefault(fruit, 0)
       fruits[fruit] += 1

totalamount = 0
for fruit, amount in fruits.items():
     print fruit, " occurs ", amount
     totalamount += amount

print "Total amount of fruits ", totalamount

Regards, Ben.
PS: It looks a little unoptimized to me but it works. Hopefully others
will reply to you as well so I can learn how to make the above better.





From mpeuser at web.de  Tue Jul 22 06:40:21 2003
From: mpeuser at web.de (Michael Peuser)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 12:40:21 +0200
Subject: Pause in a loop
References: <%W7Ta.10360$t92.299097@news1.tin.it>
Message-ID: <bfj4a9$r85$07$1@news.t-online.com>

"manuel" <manuelbastioniNOSPAM at tin.it> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:%W7Ta.10360$t92.299097 at news1.tin.it...
>
> I've two modules: main.py and eval.py
>
> Eval.py is imported in main.py, but I've a loop
> in eval.py that must call a function in main.py...
.....

How is that loop activated in the first place? If you activate it by a call
just provide your main-proc as a callback parameter in that call...

Kindly
Michael





From gml4410 at ggr.co.uk  Wed Jul  9 11:05:53 2003
From: gml4410 at ggr.co.uk (Lack Mr G M)
Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 11:05:53 BST
Subject: Building Python - how to set include and lib paths?
References: <mailman.1057262346.30857.python-list@python.org> <2003Jul4.102150@ukwit01> <2lcqt-p45.ln1@newsgate.kjn.lan>
Message-ID: <2003Jul9.110553@ukwit01>

In article <2lcqt-p45.ln1 at newsgate.kjn.lan>, Theodor Rash <trash at kjn-law.de> writes:
|> Lack Mr G M wrote:
|> 
|> > ...  My problem occurs when I am *building* python
|> > itself.  There seem to be no way that I can tell it where to look for
|> > header files and libraries for other packages/utilities (eg: SSL) that I
|> > have previously installed or how to add these to compilation and linking
|> > options..  It hard-wires /usr/local/{include,lib} for these.
|> > 
|> That's right. I had to patch setup.py to make it find Tcl/Tk which resides
|> under /opt in my system.

   Well, I have a fudge for it...

   Whereas the configure stage does not allow you to specify where you
have things, and neither setup.py nor build.py seem to have any way of
changing things either, the even lower level build_ext.py script *does*
allow you to specify libdirs. incdirs and rpath info.  So, the low-level
ability is there (well, some of it is - read on) but no higher-level
ability to actualy use it :-(

   So, after running a standard make (where some things fail). I then
run a script which:

a) sets environment variables CC, LDSHARED and OPT to the values set in
   the Makefile. 

b) Run build_ext directly using

  ./python -E ./setup.py build_ext \
   --include-dirs=${_incdir} \
   --library-dirs=${_libdir} \
   --rpath=${_libdir}

where ${_incdir} and ${_libdir} are set to the :-separated lists I need.


   Mind you, this fails if your linker uses -rpath rather than -R.  Then
you also need to edit ccompiler.py and unixccompiler.py in Lib/distutils
to:

1) Make runtime_library_dir_option use -rpath as required.

2) Make runtime_library_dir_option return a list, rather than a string,
   since -rpath requires you to pass back 2 parameters (-R allows
   catenation as a string).

3) Make the call to runtime_library_dir_option be a loop, to handle the
   returned list.


   All very messy....




-- 
--------- Gordon Lack --------------- gml4410 at ggr.co.uk  ------------
This message *may* reflect my personal opinion.  It is *not* intended
to reflect those of my employer, or anyone else.



From Juha.Autero at iki.fi  Wed Jul 23 04:28:22 2003
From: Juha.Autero at iki.fi (Juha Autero)
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 11:28:22 +0300
Subject: python assignment
References: <fbf8d8f2.0307221659.1dd1ac77@posting.google.com> <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCAEJLEPAB.tim.one@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <874r1d3avt.fsf@jautero.no-ip.org>

"Tim Peters" <tim.one at comcast.net> writes:

> It would be very unusual (because bad design) for the __iadd__
> method of a mutable type to return a pre-existing object, though.

I'm confused. I thought that the idea of __iadd__ is that for
*mutable* types it modifies existing object instead of returning new
one. So, was that a typo or are Python lists just bad desing:


>>> l=[]
>>> f=l
>>> f+=[1]
>>> f
[1]
>>> l
[1]

-- 
Juha Autero
http://www.iki.fi/jautero/
Eschew obscurity!





From sybrenUSE at YOURthirdtower.imagination.com  Tue Jul 15 18:35:58 2003
From: sybrenUSE at YOURthirdtower.imagination.com (Sybren Stuvel)
Date: 15 Jul 2003 22:35:58 GMT
Subject: PyQT, Sharp Zaurus and color in the QTextBrowser
References: <slrnbh60lj.3jm.sybrenUSE@sybren.thirdtower.com> <mailman.1058214925.28095.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrnbh90ee.8j9.sybrenUSE@sybren.thirdtower.com>

Tim Gerla enlightened us with:
> Very fun stuff. Someday I hope to have a Zaurus or similar device to
> toy with.

For those interested: I've put up some screenshots of my jabber client,
Discuss Jabber, at http://zaurus.thirdtower.com/

Sybren
-- 
The problem with the world is stupidity. Not saying there should be a
capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the
safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself? 



From fabsk+news at free.fr  Mon Jul 28 04:59:12 2003
From: fabsk+news at free.fr (Fabien SK)
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 10:59:12 +0200
Subject: default import path
In-Reply-To: <3f24c37e@news.maxnet.co.nz>
References: <3f24c37e@news.maxnet.co.nz>
Message-ID: <3f24e61d$0$24786$626a54ce@news.free.fr>

Peter wrote:
> <newbie question>
> How can I edit the default import path for Python under Windows?
> 
> I want to use the piddle module.  So far, I've copied the unzipped contents
> of the zip file to c:\prog~1\python\lib\site-packages, but how do I set it
> so this is automatically on the python path?
> 
> (I don't want to have to manually add that directory every time.)

Hi,

I added this key in the registry:

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Python\PythonCore\2.2\PythonPath\Some_name

and I set the default value for this key to the new Path

Have a nice day
Fabien




From paul_rudin at scientia.com  Mon Jul 21 10:40:25 2003
From: paul_rudin at scientia.com (Paul Rudin)
Date: 21 Jul 2003 15:40:25 +0100
Subject: COM interface to the Python interpreter
References: <bfgsf3$iuh$1@news.mch.sbs.de>
Message-ID: <ullust02u.fsf@scientia.com>

>>>>> "Christian" == Christian Knoblauch <christian.knoblauch at icn.siemens.de> writes:

    > Hello all, under Win32 it is possible to use Python as a
    > scripting language inside ASP pages (win32lib package), so there
    > must be a COM interface to the Python interpreter.


    > I like to use this interface instead of writing my own COM
    > server to invoke Python scripts from COM aware languages,
    > unfortunately i can not find the type-library for this
    > interface.

I think there's a possible misconception floating around here... the
libary code to support the implementation of com servers in python is
not of itself a com server and hence has no type library.

    > Can one provide this information (perhaps with an litle example)
    > ?

There is code for a "hello world" com server in the win32com
documentation - see
<http://www.python.org/windows/win32com/QuickStartServerCom.html>. There
are a couple of other examples in site-packages/win32com/demos
(assuming you've installed the win32com stuff).



From irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl  Mon Jul 21 15:48:10 2003
From: irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 21:48:10 +0200
Subject: Needing help with sockets
In-Reply-To: <Xns93BF12F42BDB3dionMartHotmail@205.237.233.52>
References: <Xns93BF12F42BDB3dionMartHotmail@205.237.233.52>
Message-ID: <3f1c4378$0$49110$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

Martin Dion wrote:

> I want to be able to connect on any port on a system and then send and 
> receive commands, by following the protocol rules.
> 
> If I receive data, it must print on the screen.
> 
> It asks for data to send in reply to the data received.
> 
> Once data is sent, it must look if there is data to receive and if not, 
> it must ask the user to send an other string.
> 
> 
> The problem, is that once data is sent, it goes to the receive data loop 
> and blocks until it gets data.

Try the select module.
This allows you to react to things happening on both IO channels
at the same time (user input to send, and data to receive).

--Irmen




From stuart at bmsi.com  Thu Jul 17 18:51:02 2003
From: stuart at bmsi.com (Stuart D. Gathman)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 18:51:02 -0400
Subject: Documentation examples needed
References: <aUnRa.16108$o54.11296@lakeread05> <m31xwpoj7n.fsf@ferret.object-craft.com.au>
Message-ID: <oLFRa.7720$zd4.2930@lakeread02>

On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 00:44:44 -0400, Dave Cole wrote:

> Stuart> Is there a small project with documentation in the Python
> Stuart> standard that I can use as an example?
> 
> We have some:
> 
>         http://www.object-craft.com.au/projects/albatross/
>         http://www.object-craft.com.au/projects/sybase/sybase/

Thank you.  Your Makefile is much less confusing than the one that comes
with Python!  It also points out a shortcoming of the RPM packaging.  The
python2-devel package includes everything you need to compile python
extension modules, but does not include what is needed to "compile"
python documentation!  Are third party module writers not supposed to
document anything? :-) It looks like I'll have to download the Python
sources and create my own RPMs.

Presumably, I do not need *everything* in the Doc directory to compile my
own docs.  Probably just the tools directory, and maybe texinputs and
templates.  Is the list of what is needed for 3rd party docs documented
somewhere?  I can create a python2-doc rpm for it.

-- 
	      Stuart D. Gathman <stuart at bmsi.com>
Business Management Systems Inc.  Phone: 703 591-0911 Fax: 703 591-6154
"Confutatis maledictis, flamis acribus addictis" - background song for
a Microsoft sponsored "Where do you want to go from here?" commercial.



From bogus at antispam.com  Thu Jul 17 03:25:57 2003
From: bogus at antispam.com (Alex)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 03:25:57 -0400
Subject: Curses module.
References: <iJ%Qa.1892$ym.488598@news20.bellglobal.com> <mailman.1058313744.12309.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2003.07.17.07.25.57.764722@antispam.com>

You were both correct.

I simply had to get rid on the curses.py program (my first test program)
and everything worked fine.

Thanks again for the help. I can get down to some serious
learning/hair-pulling frustration :)


Alex



From staschuk at telusplanet.net  Tue Jul 22 07:45:24 2003
From: staschuk at telusplanet.net (Steven Taschuk)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 05:45:24 -0600
Subject: Python Mystery Theatre -- Episode 3:  Extend this
In-Reply-To: <tH5Ta.24164$7O.4744@nwrdny01.gnilink.net>; from vze4rx4y@verizon.net on Tue, Jul 22, 2003 at 07:27:21AM +0000
References: <tH5Ta.24164$7O.4744@nwrdny01.gnilink.net>
Message-ID: <20030722054524.A835@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>

Quoth Raymond Hettinger:
  [...]
> Let me know if you learned something new along the way.
  [...]
> ACT IV ---------------------
> pets = list('cat ')
> pets += 'dog '
> pets.extend('fish ')
> print pets + 'python'

This one was new to me -- I was shocked and amazed to learn that
list.__iadd__, unlike list.__add__, accepts arbitrary iterables.

  [...]
> ACT VI -----------------------------------------
> print "What is the technical name for this algorithm or transformation?"
  [...]

Heh.  Nice one.

The technical name is "the identity transformation".

-- 
Steven Taschuk                               staschuk at telusplanet.net
"What I find most baffling about that song is that it was not a hit."
                                          -- Tony Dylan Davis (CKUA)




From stuart at bmsi.com  Wed Jul 16 22:31:36 2003
From: stuart at bmsi.com (Stuart D. Gathman)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 22:31:36 -0400
Subject: Documentation examples needed
Message-ID: <aUnRa.16108$o54.11296@lakeread05>

I am still wanting to produce Python standard format documentation for
Python extensions I have written.  I have looked at the docs that come
with Python itself, but I am new to Latex, and don't know how to add the
document classes and styles from texinput for a new project.

Is there a small project with documentation in the Python standard that I
can use as an example?

-- 
	      Stuart D. Gathman <stuart at bmsi.com>
Business Management Systems Inc.  Phone: 703 591-0911 Fax: 703 591-6154
"Confutatis maledictis, flamis acribus addictis" - background song for
a Microsoft sponsored "Where do you want to go from here?" commercial.



From kbass1 at nc.rr.com  Sun Jul  6 20:42:27 2003
From: kbass1 at nc.rr.com (Kevin Bass)
Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 00:42:27 GMT
Subject: Newbie Question: Abstract Class in Python
References: <5U2Oa.239646$jp.6482027@twister.southeast.rr.com> <beaed6$e71$1@panix2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <Tl3Oa.239706$jp.6488300@twister.southeast.rr.com>

"Aahz" <aahz at pythoncraft.com> wrote in message
news:beaed6$e71$1 at panix2.panix.com...
> In article <5U2Oa.239646$jp.6482027 at twister.southeast.rr.com>,
> Kevin Bass <kbass1 at nc.rr.com> wrote:
> >
> >I am new to Python and want to know how to implement an abstract
> >class? I have read through different books and I have no found this
> >information.  Thanks!
>
> Simple answer: you don't.  Python doesn't really have that concept.  If
> you tell us what you're trying to do, we can explain how to do that in
> Python.
> --
> Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>
http://www.pythoncraft.com/
>
> "Not everything in life has a clue in front of it...."  --JMS

I am only looking for an answer about creating an abstract class in Python
and
not a solution to a problem.   I am looking for a way to stop class
instantiation
of a class. This should be a generic approach.

Kevin





From CousinStanley at hotmail.com  Sun Jul  6 00:12:10 2003
From: CousinStanley at hotmail.com (Cousin Stanley)
Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2003 21:12:10 -0700
Subject: Calculating Year, Month and Day of Life
References: <be72ph$k60$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <be87f5$28755$1@ID-130333.news.dfncis.de>

hokiegal ...

  I spent 1971-1978 as a graduate student at VPI
  chained to a lab bench over in Davidson Hall,
  so I actually know what a  Hokie  is ...

  Best of luck with your Python endeavors ...

-- 
Cousin Stanley
Human Being
Phoenix, Arizona





From alanmk at hotmail.com  Fri Jul 18 15:25:20 2003
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 20:25:20 +0100
Subject: A challenge to the ASCII proponents.
References: <mailman.1058278343.23104.python-list@python.org> <bf167a$pvt$1@panix2.panix.com> <ufzl7rdno.fsf@online.no> <3F142A58.80426AA4@hotmail.com> <2259b0e2.0307161620.4a9353f1@posting.google.com> <Xns93BB246FDDBCFJanC@213.118.75.80> <3F168011.3AEB3EFC@hotmail.com> <3F172442.2040907@v.loewis.de> <3F17C1D4.1A70703A@hotmail.com> <m3fzl3lvg6.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <3F1849A0.CB3053D8@hotmail.com>

Alan Kennedy

>> More worrying however is the failure of modern browsers to display
>> the characters when accessed through Google Groups.

Martin v. L?wis:

> It's not the browsers that display it incorrectly; it is Google
> rendering it incorrectly. Fortunately, they keep the original data
> at
>
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=3F172442.2040907%40v.loewis.de&oe=UTF-8&output=gplain

Thanks Martin, a virtuoso demonstration.

It is also worth noting that your message and messages quoting it are
the only hits that turn up in a Google Groups search using the
original greek text as a search term: i.e. I go to Google Groups and
paste in the greek letters. This is true of both "global" Google
Groups and the Greek version as well:

groups.google.com:    http://tinyurl.com/hd58
groups.google.com.gr: http://tinyurl.com/hd5l

Bravo! (These kudos exchangable for food+beers should you ever decide
to visit Dublin :-)

To everyone else: Why does this stuff get so complicated? Why does it
take a multi-lingual + encoding-guru + protocol-guru + markup-guru +
python-bot like Martin von L to get stuff like this done? Does it have
to require somebot who writes better quality software (i.e. less
defective) than the world's leading search engine, Google, who got it
slightly wrong?

The idea of raising this came to me when that Russian individual
posted a message a few days ago that got very garbled in the
transmission, both subject and content. Again, it was only Martin who
was able to figure out its content: I, being an ordinary mortal, was
left saying "?Qu??"

Computers should be about making it easier for people to communicate
with each other. And yes I fully realise python's excellence in that
regard, thanks in large part to Martin.

To me, the "structure data using ASCII" argument seems very similar to
the human language position: "English is now universal, therefore all
people must learn and speak it if they want to communicate." What if I
want to have an irish gaelic word in the subject line of my emails or
usenet posts?

sl?n libh,

--
al?in ? cinn?ide
-----------------------------------------------------
check http headers here: http://xhaus.com/headers
email alan:              http://xhaus.com/mailto/alan



From BPettersen at NAREX.com  Tue Jul  8 16:13:52 2003
From: BPettersen at NAREX.com (Bjorn Pettersen)
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 14:13:52 -0600
Subject: mx odbc
Message-ID: <60FB8BB7F0EFC7409B75EEEC13E2019202CE44FC@admin56.narex.com>

> From: Kim Petersen [mailto:kp at kyborg.dk] 
> 
> Regarding ODBC usage in Python...
> 
> it seems to me that there is a couple of ways to use odbc from python,
> one of these is the MX version - now that one has a pretty 
> steep licence cost (imho). 

Well, you pay for what you get <wink>.

If you're interested in a no-cost alternative the adodb module from
Henrik Ekelund is a db api layer over ADO which should get you the
connectivity you need but may or may not solve your real problem :-)

-- bjorn




From jjl at pobox.com  Tue Jul 29 16:00:47 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 29 Jul 2003 21:00:47 +0100
Subject: emacs python-mode questions: C-c C-c and broken docstring fill
References: <87ptjwre0x.fsf@pobox.com> <6qy8yjj5gw.fsf@salmakis.intevation.de>
Message-ID: <874r156r2o.fsf@pobox.com>

Bernhard Herzog <bh at intevation.de> writes:
[...about failure to fill...]
> One situation where this can happen is if point is the at the @ in the
> following triple quoted string:
> 
> """nobody expects the "spanish" @inquision"""
> 
> The following patch should fix this I think (I haven't tested this very
> well though):
[...]

Works for me.  Thanks.  I'll post this with the bug report I'm just
about to file.


John



From manish.j at gmx.net  Sun Jul 27 16:14:21 2003
From: manish.j at gmx.net (Manish Jethani)
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 01:44:21 +0530
Subject: multithreading-problem
In-Reply-To: <bg0ubo$ujq$00$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <bg0ubo$ujq$00$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <EyWUa.8$Sq2.124@news.oracle.com>

Diez B. Roggisch wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> I expirienced strange problems when using the module threading:
> 
> class Bar:
>   def __init__(_, arg):
>     _.arg = arg
>   def work(_):
>     while 1:
>       print _.arg
> 
> def foo(arg):
>   b = Bar(arg)
>   b.work()
> 
> for i in xrange(4):
>   thread = threading.Thread(target=lambda : foo(i))
>   thread.start()
> 
> What I'd expect would be a sequence of prints like this
> 1
> 2
> 3
> 4
> 1
> 3
> 4
> 2
> 
> What I actualy get is this:
> 1
> 4
> 4
> 4
> 4
> 1
> 4
> 4
> 4
> 
> Placing a time.sleep(3) after the thread.start() fixed things. So it appears
> that the curried lambda passed as target is somehow a reference equal for
> all four invocations.

No, I don't believe it to be true.  It's probably just that the
other threads aren't getting a chance to run.  Consider
time.sleep(0) in the while loop in work()

-Manish

-- 
Manish Jethani (manish.j at gmx.net)
phone (work) +91-80-51073488




From kjones9 at rochester.rr.com  Sat Jul 26 23:13:43 2003
From: kjones9 at rochester.rr.com (Keith Jones)
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 03:13:43 GMT
Subject: Beginners help with password program!
References: <mailman.1059257449.31126.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2003.07.27.03.17.21.691808@rochester.rr.com>

For starters, I suggest you install pychecker and use it on any programs
you create.

Second, every error in python should give you some information as to what
line it occurred on. For example:

: a = b
:Traceback (most recent call last):
:  File "<pyshell#29>", line 1, in ?
:    a = b
:NameError: name 'b' is not defined

Here it says line 1, because this occurred in Idle. Start by going to that
line... 90% of the time, your error will be right there.

As for your file... well the line if "login == no:" looks wrong, unless
you have a variable named 'no'.. you probably want the string 'no' there.
As was mentioned, you probably won't get much help if you ask people to
debug for you. Debugging is a major part of programming, and you can't
avoid it. So get used to it and get good at it. :D (and learn to test your
code thoroughly).  Finally, I recommend you use raw_input(...), rather
than input(...), and then convert the return value from a string to
whatever you need it to be.



From altis at semi-retired.com  Mon Jul 28 13:27:35 2003
From: altis at semi-retired.com (Kevin Altis)
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 10:27:35 -0700
Subject: Python on a USB storage device?
Message-ID: <VXcVa.28$HY3.42617@news.uswest.net>

Does anyone have experience running Python from a USB storage device?
Whether it is the need for doing a demo of your application, doing a bit of
consulting, or just showing off Python, it would be handy to be able to run
Python on machines that don't already have Python installed. I'm thinking
about giving this a try, but wondered if anyone is already doing it and the
downsides, if any?

CD-ROM is not very effective because the media is read-only and too big to
carry in your pocket. I think USB 2.0 is supposed to be roughly 20x faster
than USB for storage devices, but I'm guessing that if you can live with the
load times for machines that don't have USB 2.0, plain USB should still be
effective.

HP Windows desktops, Linux, and Mac OS X already have Python installed and
Mac OS X (Panther) will have Python 2.3. But even so, you generally have to
install additional packages to get the functionality you want. Having all
you need on a USB storage device and not needing to install anything on the
host machine seems like it would be very convenient.

ka




From john_bradbury at ___cableinet.co.uk  Sun Jul  6 17:03:28 2003
From: john_bradbury at ___cableinet.co.uk (John Bradbury)
Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2003 21:03:28 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Server Push
References: <be2che$6ng$1@sparta.btinternet.com> <3f05b7ab$0$49103$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <bea2qv$jiv$1@sparta.btinternet.com>

I have used the Netscape examples and can not get them work.  I am using
Windows and have tried Omnicron and XITAMI servers.  What is frustraing me
is that I can achieve the desired result in Delphi by simply using :
response.sendresponse;
request.writestring('progress line');

I was hoping to find similar functionality in Python.

John


"Irmen de Jong" <irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl> wrote in message
news:3f05b7ab$0$49103$e4fe514c at news.xs4all.nl...
> John Bradbury wrote:
> > I want to send updates from a long running cgi.  I have tried copying
perl
> > examples of server push and can not get them to work.
> > Does anyone have an idiot proof example of a working server push or
sending
> > output in chunks in Python?
>
> Check out: http://wp.netscape.com/assist/net_sites/pushpull.html
>
> There are basically two ways to do this. Either use the
> above mentioned "multipart response", which only seems to work on
> certain browsers (confirmed on netscape and mozilla, IE doesn't seem
> to work). The other method is just flushing your output and
> continue to write more data... but this won't allow you to
> 'clear the page' in the client's browser (multipart repsonses will).
>
> --Irmen
>







From mis6 at pitt.edu  Mon Jul 14 14:40:12 2003
From: mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato)
Date: 14 Jul 2003 11:40:12 -0700
Subject: Multiple Class Inheritance Question
References: <jpiQa.4284$Y%3.2387@nwrddc03.gnilink.net> <mailman.1058131417.23876.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <2259b0e2.0307140658.26192b82@posting.google.com>

Andy Jewell <andy at wild-flower.co.uk> wrote in message news:<mailman.1058131417.23876.python-list at python.org>...
> Read guildo's essay on new style classes - that explains it all.
> 
> In the 'old days' i.e. before Python 2.2.x the rules were different.  Now
>  a 
> new algorithm is used which copes better with this.  As I said, read the 
> essay (it's on www.python.org - just search for 'new style classes essay'
> ).
> 
> hth
> -andyj

...  and in Python 2.3 the rule has changed again ...

http://www.python.org/2.3/mro.html

Michele



From gh at ghaering.de  Wed Jul 30 12:49:17 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 18:49:17 +0200
Subject: Is there a standard module library function to access /etc/passwd
	or /etc/group
In-Reply-To: <16469f07.0307300416.351ba776@posting.google.com>
References: <16469f07.0307300416.351ba776@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3F27F70D.7030209@ghaering.de>

Robin Cull wrote:
> Hi all, 
> 
> I'm writing a script that needs to do lookups on the UNIX passwd and
> groups file [...]

import pwd, grp

Next question? :)

-- Gerhard




From research at aceretail.com  Fri Jul 18 17:45:37 2003
From: research at aceretail.com (Terry Smith)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 21:45:37 GMT
Subject: Jerry Pournelle, Byte, Python, and Python in a Nutshell
References: <mailman.1052512578.868.python-list@python.org> <3ebfb0c2$0$2616$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <b9oh6n$h0s$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <ogqghv8hpbo65h09o089rbik1k22p34h8t@4ax.com>

I had an article in Byte called 'Solving the Eight Queens Problem'.
There was a lot I didn't know then... :-)

My all time fav article from Byte was a two parter on the alpha beta
technique for searching game trees - written in Basic. VERY
educational.

Can anyone point me at that, I'd love to read it again!

On 12 May 2003 16:13:11 GMT, bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) wrote:

>On 12 May 2003 14:33:38 GMT, grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards) wrote:
>[...]
>[OT] Are old mags and journals worth anything? I have tons (almost literally ;-)
>of old Bytes, DrDobbs, ACM Communications, SigPlan, SigOps, IEEE Computer, etc. etc.
>which I'd like to dispose of without feeling like I've thrown away money or
>something of value to someone.
>
>Regards,
>Bengt Richter




From alanmk at hotmail.com  Fri Jul  4 11:26:52 2003
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 16:26:52 +0100
Subject: Python Code Snippets
References: <be1hs0$111s$1@biggoron.nerim.net> <87y8ze8hgm.fsf@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <3F059CBC.77900722@hotmail.com>

> Aur?lien G?ron writes:

>> Does anyone know where I can find a lot of Python code snippets?

John J. Lee wrote:

> http://www.uselesspython.com/
> 
> They're working on useless 2, with categories.

Maybe it's time to consider a name change as well? I know that the
name was originally chosen partly for humility and partly for humour
(i.e. it's Monty Pythonic).

But "useless" is fairly offputting. The site looks pretty useful to
me.

OTOH, I suppose it's a pretty catchy name, eh?

-- 
alan kennedy
-----------------------------------------------------
check http headers here: http://xhaus.com/headers
email alan:              http://xhaus.com/mailto/alan



From ben at dadsetan.com  Wed Jul  9 03:12:02 2003
From: ben at dadsetan.com (Behrang Dadsetan)
Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 09:12:02 +0200
Subject: Deleting specific characters from a string
Message-ID: <begfb3$7j6$1@online.de>

Hi all,

I would like deleting specific characters from a string.
As an example, I would like to delete all of the '@' '&' in the string 
'You are ben at orange?enter&your&code' so that it becomes 
'benorange?enteryourcode'.

So far I have been doing it like:
str = 'You are ben at orange?enter&your&code'
str = ''.join([ c for c in str if c not in ('@', '&')])

but that looks so ugly.. I am hoping to see nicer examples to acheive 
the above..

Thanks.
Ben.




From news at yebu.de  Thu Jul  3 04:35:32 2003
From: news at yebu.de (Karl Scalet)
Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 10:35:32 +0200
Subject: function overloading
In-Reply-To: <bao458024mf@enews2.newsguy.com>
References: <bao3bm$2fh$1@news.tu-darmstadt.de> <bao458024mf@enews2.newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <be0psp$10b2nd$1@ID-141451.news.dfncis.de>

Alex Martelli schrieb:
> 
> We don't (bind several different objects to the same name in a given
> scope).  If you're keen on being able to call setPos(x,y) as well as
> setPos(pos) there are several ways you can achieve this effect -- e.g.
> 
> def setPos(x,y):
>   "whatever"
> 
> setPos_2args = setPos
> 

what is the benefit of this "renaming" over just
name the dispatch-function setPos_2args directly:

def setPos_2args(x,y):
     "whatever"

 > ....
> 
> def setPos(*args):
>     if len(args)==2: return setPos_2args(*args)
>     if len(args)>1: raise TypeError
>     if type(args[0]) == postype: return setPos_postype(*args)
>     return setPos_anyother(*args)
> ...

Karl




From tismer at tismer.com  Fri Jul  4 21:09:39 2003
From: tismer at tismer.com (Christian Tismer)
Date: Sat, 05 Jul 2003 03:09:39 +0200
Subject: My Big Dict.
In-Reply-To: <94974e1a.0307030332.138a7054@posting.google.com>
References: <mailman.1057119003.11991.python-list@python.org> <20030702073735.40293ba2.christophe.delord@free.fr> <TXvMa.9902$BM.3065756@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com> <bdua4i$18el$1@biggoron.nerim.net> <94974e1a.0307020532.1cb19956@posting.google.com> <mailman.1057162092.18394.python-list@python.org> <94974e1a.0307030332.138a7054@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3F062553.9020901@tismer.com>

Paul Simmonds wrote:

[some alternative implementations]

> I've done some timings on the functions above, here are the results:
> 
> Python2.2.1, 200000 line file(all data lines)
> try/except with split:   3.08s
>     if     with slicing: 2.32s
> try/except with slicing: 2.34s
> 
> So slicing seems quicker than split, and using if instead of
> try/except appears to speed it up a little more. I don't know how much
> faster the current version of the interpreter would be, but I doubt
> the ranking would change much.

Interesting. I doubt that split() itself is slow, instead
I believe that the pure fact that you are calling a function
instead of using a syntactic construct makes things slower,
since method lookup is not so cheap. Unfortunately, split()
cannot be cached into a local variable, since it is obtained
as a new method of the line, all the time. On the other hand,
the same holds for the find method...

Well, I wrote a test program and figured out, that the test
results were very dependant from the order of calling the
functions! This means, the results are not independent,
probably due to the memory usage.
Here some results on Win32, testing repeatedly...

D:\slpdev\src\2.2\src\PCbuild>python -i \python22\py\testlines.py
 >>> test()
function test_index for 200000 lines took 1.064 seconds.
function test_find  for 200000 lines took 1.402 seconds.
function test_split for 200000 lines took 1.560 seconds.
 >>> test()
function test_index for 200000 lines took 1.395 seconds.
function test_find  for 200000 lines took 1.502 seconds.
function test_split for 200000 lines took 1.888 seconds.
 >>> test()
function test_index for 200000 lines took 1.416 seconds.
function test_find  for 200000 lines took 1.655 seconds.
function test_split for 200000 lines took 1.755 seconds.
 >>>

For that reason, I added a command line mode for testing
single functions, with these results:

D:\slpdev\src\2.2\src\PCbuild>python \python22\py\testlines.py index
function test_index for 200000 lines took 1.056 seconds.

D:\slpdev\src\2.2\src\PCbuild>python \python22\py\testlines.py find
function test_find  for 200000 lines took 1.092 seconds.

D:\slpdev\src\2.2\src\PCbuild>python \python22\py\testlines.py split
function test_split for 200000 lines took 1.255 seconds.

The results look much more reasonable; the index thing still
seems to be optimum.

Then I added another test, using an unbound str.index function,
which was again a bit faster.
Finally, I moved the try..except clause out of the game, by
using an explicit, restartable iterator, see the attached program.

D:\slpdev\src\2.2\src\PCbuild>python \python22\py\testlines.py index3
function test_index3 for 200000 lines took 0.997 seconds.

As a side result, split seems to be unnecessarily slow.

cheers - chris
-- 
Christian Tismer             :^)   <mailto:tismer at tismer.com>
Mission Impossible 5oftware  :     Have a break! Take a ride on Python's
Johannes-Niemeyer-Weg 9a     :    *Starship* http://starship.python.net/
14109 Berlin                 :     PGP key -> http://wwwkeys.pgp.net/
work +49 30 89 09 53 34  home +49 30 802 86 56  pager +49 173 24 18 776
PGP 0x57F3BF04       9064 F4E1 D754 C2FF 1619  305B C09C 5A3B 57F3 BF04
      whom do you want to sponsor today?   http://www.stackless.com/

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From no_replies at fake_email_address.invalid  Fri Jul 11 15:37:48 2003
From: no_replies at fake_email_address.invalid (Robert Oschler)
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 19:37:48 GMT
Subject: A very short story about Python in a Nutshell
References: <3F0DC98E.BDC96606@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <gmEPa.11426$Hw.8780943@news2.news.adelphia.net>

Only 50?  Amazon just called and they're taking my house! :)

Ditto on "Python in a nutshell" great book.

thx

--

Robert Oschler
"Let the web hear you, add your voice to your web site in minutes!"
-- http://audiodirect.spiderchase.com/
(For a limited time, free voiceover with every sign-up, use this link
instead)
-- http://audio.spiderchase.com/


"Peter Hansen" <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message
news:3F0DC98E.BDC96606 at engcorp.com...
> So there I was just sitting there, minding my own business, and in walks
> one of the programmers, holding "Python in a Nutshell". [1]
>
> "Peter," he says, "this has gotta be the best book you've bought so far.
[2]
> Every thing I need to look up, it's got it."
>
> THE END
>
> (I told you it was a very short story.)
>
> -Peter
>
> [1]
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0596001886/qid%3D1057868151/sr%3D11-1
/ref%3Dsr%5F11%5F1/102-0808187-6963307
>
> [2] I've bought at least 50 computer books in the last couple of years.





From sybrenUSE at YOURthirdtower.imagination.com  Tue Jul 15 07:29:23 2003
From: sybrenUSE at YOURthirdtower.imagination.com (Sybren Stuvel)
Date: 15 Jul 2003 11:29:23 GMT
Subject: How to crash Python in 1 easy step (python 2.2.2)
References: <2e363c08.0307130944.4c470bc3@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <slrnbh7pci.61k.sybrenUSE@sybren.thirdtower.com>

Paul Miller enlightened us with:
> Anytime python is accepting keyboard input, whether it's with
> raw_input, or sitting on the command line waiting for the user to type
> code, you can crash python by holding ctrl+shift and then pressing
> enter.

sybren at sybren:sybren$ python
Python 2.2.3+ (#1, Jul  5 2003, 11:04:18) 
[GCC 3.3.1 20030626 (Debian prerelease)] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import sys
>>> sys.stdin.readline()

'\n'
>>> 

As you can see, my python handles it just fine. I'm running Debian
Unstable on my box. Guess it isn't so unstable after all ;-) I started
python from an xterm managed by Fluxbox.

Sybren
-- 
The problem with the world is stupidity. Not saying there should be a
capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the
safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself? 



From max at alcyone.com  Tue Jul 15 02:06:20 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 23:06:20 -0700
Subject: anything like C++ references?
References: <sag3hv4vf884ed7ouu5cv8ofnopp9j1t12@4ax.com> <bet1sd$ibl$1@panix3.panix.com> <sfa4hvkq1j7rg1iga5j3tk2cc4qpr6e5qk@4ax.com> <beueis$b1d$1@panix3.panix.com> <78c6hvgu599ku5denkkl7pgmd4n13t460i@4ax.com> <roy-204535.19175914072003@reader1.panix.com> <3F135328.89C1F89C@alcyone.com> <hmq6hv8amht3kis59pqgab5mbqekc5675c@4ax.com> <v3u6hv0tna44h5bjd38fkqjma5r437fv3k@4ax.com> <pau6hv4p7ticslc32d4bt1rcap6kbd57jf@4ax.com> <3F138ADC.4BF9DB3A@alcyone.com> <o147hvodkhn47l3cl6n5vkv51bb44f1hb7@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3F1399DC.BC428285@alcyone.com>

Stephen Horne wrote:

> Sorry. I hope no offense was caused.

None here.  I just thought you were being serious about the suggestion. 
When you made your comment to someone else, I realized that you were
just waxing philosophical, not suggesting an actual change be put in
Python.  (Well, on this subject, anyway. :-)

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ Honesty has nothing to hide
\__/  Joi



From yvan_charpentier at hotmail.com  Thu Jul 10 17:39:35 2003
From: yvan_charpentier at hotmail.com (yvan)
Date: 10 Jul 2003 14:39:35 -0700
Subject: Create another Excel instance
Message-ID: <9ee55987.0307101339.701965a7@posting.google.com>

I am using Excel to save data.
Everything works as i intend it to if no other instance of Excel is running.
If another instance is running, it will do the job, but also close that instance.
How can i prevent that from happening?

Here is the code that creates and deletes the instance:
class CExcel:
    def __init__(self, bVisible = 0):
        import sys
        import pythoncom
        sys.coinit_flags = 0
        pythoncom.CoInitializeEx(pythoncom.COINIT_MULTITHREADED)
        import win32com.client.dynamic
        self.xlApp = win32com.client.dynamic.Dispatch("Excel.Application")
        self.xlApp.Visible = bVisible
        self.xlBook = self.xlApp.Workbooks.Add()
        self.xlSheet = self.xlApp.ActiveSheet

    def __del__(self):
        import pythoncom
        if self.xlSheet != None:
            del(self.xlSheet)
        if self.xlBook != None:
            self.xlBook.Close(0)
            del(self.xlBook)
        if self.xlApp != None:
            self.xlApp.Quit()
            del(self.xlApp)
        pythoncom.CoUninitialize()

Thank for your help,

-Yvan



From gerrit.muller at embeddedsystems.nl  Fri Jul 11 03:13:46 2003
From: gerrit.muller at embeddedsystems.nl (Gerrit Muller)
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 09:13:46 +0200
Subject: Nice presentation of Dana Moore on Oscon
Message-ID: <3F0E63AA.4000107@embeddedsystems.nl>

A colleage attended me on the presentation of Dana Moore on Oscon:
"The Seven Habits of Highly Effective Technology Disruption
Python Survival in a Java & .Net World"
http://www.infoether.com/~rich/pycon2003.pdf

A very nice presentation. I do have one small comment: Python is 
characterized as "weakly typed", which should be "dynamic types", or 
what people often mean to say "not static typed".

The difference has been discussed many times in this newsgroup. Dynamic 
typing requires a different approach than static typing. Programmers 
from the static world have to make a mental adjustment to become 
effective in this different paradigm.

kind regards, Gerrit Muller
-- 
Gaudi systems architecting:
http://www.extra.research.philips.com/natlab/sysarch/




From ghowland at lupineNO.SPAMgames.com  Sat Jul  5 03:51:05 2003
From: ghowland at lupineNO.SPAMgames.com (Geoff Howland)
Date: Sat, 05 Jul 2003 07:51:05 GMT
Subject: Python executables
References: <20030703090622.1420.48614.Mailman@mail.python.org> <mailman.1057230065.17314.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <u40dgvkn3ddjsuh6dbkv8u7s8s6umoflp7@4ax.com>

On Thu, 03 Jul 2003 07:04:49 -0400, David Scott Williams
<xiarcel at prodigy.net> wrote:

>>I think everyone that uses Python wants it to gain acceptance for the
>>great language that it is.  I believe that stating an attitude in this
>>way is pretty counter productive in gaining any kind of wide-spread
>>acceptance.
>>
>Unfortunately, though, I don't think you get any more tread coming to 
>the Open Source developers and asking them how to hide your bits... This 
>is your issue, reversed.  

Why should Open Source developers be unanimously opposed to this?  I
can see that some will be, but just because you Open some of your
programs doesnt mean you will Open all of them.

There are business models to Open Source software, but they're much
less developed and practiced than just selling the software.  IMO,
some things are better domains for open source than others, and other
people will have different views.

I think the important thing here is not to alienate people who have
different views than you just because you have different opinions.
Why should Python only be used by people who want to create open
source software?  Should everyone else be discouraged or prodded?

>I think if your goals are un-reasonable, asking a hammer salesman how 
>best to use his tool to screw something into drywall is again, similary, 
>counter-productive.  Scripting languages are hard to obfuscate, if not 
>damned near impossible.  Even Java byte-code can be decompiled back to 
>fairly decent looking source...

I didn't think Python was trying to be a hammer.  It's obviously not
trying to be Everything (which is good), but that doesnt mean it
should be saying "we dont do this, bugger off".

Especially for something that is really more religious.  There is a
practical side to this, which is "hiding things is not easy because
Python isnt built to hide things", and I think that is fine.  I think
it's more important for Python to be about making coding easy and
readable, but I still dont think it should be discouraged as a
community policy.

I know I was at first very put off by the open source community
because of how totalitarian the sentiment seemed to be that
"everything must be open/free".  I've finally started to get over that
and enjoy releasing bits here and there, but giving things away
doesn't pay bills.  I have a feeling that others are equally put off
by it, and it only slows down acceptance for everyone that "maybe some
things I write are good to release open source".

>>Some people will care enough, and will avoid Python because the
>>ability to protect their end results aren't there.
>>
>This loss is unfortunate, perhaps someday they will see that software 
>really isn't a commodity, but a service.  

In that "even a radio is a service", it will definitely be true, but
radios are sold as well.  Some software is more a service than others.
Some software is more like a radio.  Some software is even less
service than a radio (like games), where they are sometimes a one-shot
experience.  You can't sell service on this, and there is sometimes
little replay value.  The worth is in the experience the first time.

Service varies, and so sales needs to be varying as well.

>Perhaps you could write an open source python code obfuscator?   Or 
>write it in C and make it closed source?  

I wasnt suggesting "someone else" do it really.  I was more addressing
the attitude that I thought could put people off.  At one point I
personally considered this important, and after reviewing it long
enough I decided I didn't care.  It wasn't worth the effort to hide
things, and the majority of people would pay for the software anyway
(that were going to), so no loss.  I just think those that want to do
it shouldn't be discouraged from touching Python or asking for help.  

:)


-Geoff Howland
http://ludumdare.com/



From FBatista at uniFON.com.ar  Fri Jul 11 08:11:41 2003
From: FBatista at uniFON.com.ar (Batista, Facundo)
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 09:11:41 -0300
Subject: text file edit object
Message-ID: <A128D751272CD411BC9200508BC2194D01885749@escpl.tcp.com.ar>

#- file = TextFile( "foo.txt" )
#- del file[:-10] # remove last 10 lines
#- file.save()

myfile = open("foo.txt", "r")
mylines = myfile.readlines()[:-10]
myfile.writelines(mylines)
myfile.close()

I only see two problems with this:
	- Poor performance on very big files
	- Bad support on "hanging in the middle"


.	Facundo





From lists at andreas-jung.com  Mon Jul  7 01:16:13 2003
From: lists at andreas-jung.com (Andreas Jung)
Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 07:16:13 +0200
Subject: anything new on the ternary operator?
In-Reply-To: <%G4Oa.22187$Ey6.10119@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net>
References: <mailman.1057533670.9800.python-list@python.org>
 <%G4Oa.22187$Ey6.10119@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net>
Message-ID: <2147483647.1057562173@[192.168.0.100]>


--On Montag, 7. Juli 2003 2:13 Uhr +0000 Russell Reagan <rreagan at attbi.com> 
wrote:

> "Bob Gailer" <bgailer at alum.rpi.edu> wrote
>
>> I was looking forward to having it.
>
> "Sean Ross" <sross at connectmail.carleton.ca> wrote
>
>> - (if C: x else: y) won the vote
>
> I'm still learning python, so don't flame too much :-)
>
> What is superior about using the proposed ternary operator instead of
> using the 'and' and 'or' operators to simulate inline logic?

Please stop the discussion. The ternary operator is dead (which is a very 
good thing)
because GvR made the decision.

-aj




From ta-meyer at ihug.co.nz  Wed Jul 16 01:04:46 2003
From: ta-meyer at ihug.co.nz (Tony Meyer)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 17:04:46 +1200
Subject: FCNTL module deprecation warning
In-Reply-To: <1ED4ECF91CDED24C8D012BCF2B034F130256635B@its-xchg4.massey.ac.nz>
Message-ID: <1ED4ECF91CDED24C8D012BCF2B034F13026F2809@its-xchg4.massey.ac.nz>

> There isn't (or at least shouldn't be) any file named 
> fcntl.py anywhere in your Python installation.  FCNTL.py, 
> yes, but not fcntl.py (or .dll, or .pyd, etc).

I found the problem (and it was even something suggested in one of the
answers to my original post) - I had (in both the 2.3b2 and 2.2.3
directories) a fnctl.pyc, which, I presume from the behaviour, must have
been a compiled version of FNCTL.py (a FNCTL.pyc could never then be
created, of course).

How it got there without being capitalised, I don't know.  (Well, I know one
way it could have - if I do set PYTHONCASEOK and then import fcntl, a
fcntl.pyc file appears, which is actually a compiled FCNTL.  But until
today, I'd never heard of (so presumably never set) PYTHONCASEOK.  They
could have appeared in the testing that I did after reading the responses to
my question, but then what caused the original behaviour that prompted the
post?).

In any case, Python does what I expect now, and what I'm told it's meant to
do, so that's all I really care about.  If it ever happens again, at least
I'll know how to fix it.

Thanks to those that helped :)

=Tony Meyer





From paul_rudin at scientia.com  Tue Jul  1 04:49:03 2003
From: paul_rudin at scientia.com (Paul Rudin)
Date: 01 Jul 2003 09:49:03 +0100
Subject: dcom client from non-windows python
Message-ID: <ur85a8we8.fsf@scientia.com>


This is mostly idle speculation from a position of considerable
ignorance :-)

In theory it should be possible to do client side dcom from
non-windows boxes. The existing python win32com stuff is only
distributed for windows.  The python wrappers could be generated from
a type library on a windows box; copied across to (e.g.) a linux box
and used to do write client side dcom python programs to talk to a
servers running on a windows box. I wonder how much of the current
dcom client code depends on the presence of windows? Does this sound
like a big job getting this kind of thing to work? Or should it be
fairly easy to modify the existing com client stuff for this purpose?
Maybe somebody has already done this (although I could find anything
with a quick google)?


(I thought I'd already posted something similar this, but various
newsservers disagree so I post again. Apologies if it turns out to be
a repeat.)



From mcherm at mcherm.com  Mon Jul 14 09:47:44 2003
From: mcherm at mcherm.com (Michael Chermside)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 06:47:44 -0700
Subject: anything like C++ references?
Message-ID: <1058190464.3f12b480b7d3a@mcherm.com>

In the (lengthy) thread "anything like C++ references?" there developed
(yet another) huge discussion of how assignment and parameter passing
works in Python.

In response, Ian Bicking wrote:
> Python is not novel in the way it deals with variables.  Scheme and
> Smalltalk, for instance, act exactly the same, as do many other
> dynamically typed languages [...].
> This isn't a funny little feature, this is the way all strong,
> dynamically typed languages work. 
          [...]
> The problem you have is you are still thinking of variables as slots,
> which is not correct.  Variables in Python are bindings.  Assignment
> never copies anything, or creates anything except for changing the
> variable to point to a different address location.  *Every* Python
> assignment (a=b) is like the C assignment (a=&b).  

I have nothing whatsoever to add to this... it is just so clearly and
simply stated that I felt it was worth repeating. Of course, lots of
other people said the same thing in other ways, but I felt that Ian's
phrasing is particularly useful in explaining things to programmers
coming from a C-style background, even if it doesn't seem to reach
Stephen Horne.

-- Michael Chermside





From paul at boddie.net  Mon Jul 14 12:35:33 2003
From: paul at boddie.net (Paul Boddie)
Date: 14 Jul 2003 09:35:33 -0700
Subject: Using  xml.xpath question.
References: <de5c7cc0.0307101347.2c707bf8@posting.google.com> <23891c90.0307110057.bbe91e3@posting.google.com> <de5c7cc0.0307111230.7d83588@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <23891c90.0307140155.6e012fd5@posting.google.com>

bvelkur at yahoo.com (0wl) wrote in message news:<de5c7cc0.0307111230.7d83588 at posting.google.com>...
> Works like a charm!!!!! 
> 
> My Ignorance shines bright.... :-).

Or perhaps the documentation doesn't? ;-)

> Anywhere I can read about this stuff..

I think I picked up on this stuff by reading the W3C specification and
browsing the xml.xpath sources. You could do some investigation in
Python 2.2 by using the built-in help command; for example:

  help(xml.xpath)

And the specification for XPath 1.0 is found here:

  http://www.w3.org/TR/xpath

Perhaps a tutorial is in order.

Paul



From grante at visi.com  Wed Jul 16 08:20:52 2003
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 16 Jul 2003 12:20:52 GMT
Subject: Q: simple sockets, bind, and socket error 10048
References: <3f1532e3.3717465@news.online.de>
Message-ID: <3f154324$0$159$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>

In article <3f1532e3.3717465 at news.online.de>, Johannes Eble wrote:

> Note that I start a client one by one (in the same client's dos
> box). It seems that the older port numbers can't be used
> anymore even if the client is closing the connection and
> terminating.

The port can't be used because it's still in use.  When you
close a TCP connection, it doesn't go away immediately.  It
goes into a "wait" state for several minutes just in case there
are packets belonging to that connection wandering around the
internet.  If you want to skip that waiting state (a decision
which a small risk associated), set the SO_REUSEADDR option on
the socket.

> I do not understand why the port is still in use.

Stevens chapter 18:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0201633469/qid=1058357912/sr=2-1/ref=sr_2_1/103-3800181-0657431

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  I like the way ONLY
                                  at               their mouths move... They
                               visi.com            look like DYING OYSTERS



From owski at hotmail.com  Wed Jul 16 10:12:04 2003
From: owski at hotmail.com (Adam Ruth)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 14:12:04 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: anything like C++ references?
References: <b8c3hvsesjoumiboobml3nsnajtha99mp1@4ax.com>   
	<mailman.1058129901.28248.python-list@python.org>   
	<plk3hv0s1m2egf4s34jo6vjedk0q8r2mu9@4ax.com>   
	<hflQa.48826$wk6.12216@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net>   
	<rp94hvc8fg6h91oe7ctqq9jn9ku3nlud1k@4ax.com>   
	<f0f51c80.0307150945.3f19e48b@posting.google.com>   
	<qlq8hv8e7a5177o250c2fhvg9hv2lhfa15@4ax.com>  
	<20030715200433927-0600@news.xmission.com> 
	<1058328099.572993@yasure>
Message-ID: <20030716081156943-0600@news.xmission.com>

In <1058328099.572993 at yasure> Donn Cave wrote:
> Quoth Adam Ruth <owski at hotmail.com>:
> ....
>| In Python, there is no situation where "you really can't avoid 
>| pointers".  
> 
> That's trivially true, no such situation can exist because that
> Python can't be coded.  I'll repeat an example that I proposed
> a couple days ago, though:  user implemented sequences could be
> implemented with a single simple indexing function, returning
> a pointer/target/whatever;  Python could assign directly to that,
> making "seq[i] = x" the same kind of operation as and automatically
> symmetrical with "x = seq[i]".
> 
> It can't be done without pointers, as far as I can see.  You may not
> care if it can be done, but I think you'd agree that "there is no
> situation that I care about where you really can't avoid pointers"
> would be kind of a lame version of your assertion.
> 
> 	Donn Cave, donn at drizzle.com
> 

I did a quick google search and couldn't find the thread you're 
referring to.  Could you summarize it for me? It sounds interesting.  I 
do so love the taste of my foot in my mouth.

Adam Ruth



From harry.g.george at boeing.com  Mon Jul 21 15:42:57 2003
From: harry.g.george at boeing.com (Harry George)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 19:42:57 GMT
Subject: Voting Project Needs Python People
References: <LDVSa.14955$Mc.1126731@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <xqxwuebfyym.fsf@cola2.ca.boeing.com>

"Alan Dechert" <adechert at earthlink.net> writes:

> We've decided to go with Python for the demo of the voting machine I
> described on this forum yesterday.  Thanks to all of you for your feedback.
> 
> We have an excellent team together.  We're looking for a few good Python
> coders willing to volunteer for this free open source project.  It will be
> on sourceforge.net later today.
> 
> I can't offer you any money right now but I think it will be a good
> opportunity for Python users and the Python community in general.  It's
> likely to be fairly high-profile and will gain significant exposure for
> Python.
> 
> Here are some of the people involved:
> 
> University of California Santa Cruz computer science graduate, Adrianne Yu
> Wang will be the project administrator and lead the project.
> 
> http://home.earthlink.net/~adechert/adrianne_resume.doc
> 
> She will get help from Jack Walther, a UCSC graduate student and big Python
> fan.
> 
> http://www.cse.ucsc.edu/~jdw/
> 
> They will be advised by computer science professors Doug Jones (U of Iowa)
> and Arthur Keller (UCSC)
> 
> http://www.cs.uiowa.edu/~jones/
> 
> http://www.soe.ucsc.edu/~ark/
> 
> Ed Cherlin will also act in a mainly advisory role but will assist with the
> design of the project and documentation.
> 
> http://home.earthlink.net/~adechert/cherlin_resume.doc
> 
> We anticipate that a successful demo will help expedite funding for the
> overall project which is aimed at implementing a uniform transparent voting
> system.  We have very prominent academics interested in the project from
> many of the top universities around the country: Political scientists,
> lawyers, economists, computer scientists, and psychologists.
> 
> Stanford computer scientist David Dill has been helpful (he referred Ed
> Cherlin and Prof Keller to me, among others).  Professor Dill has gotten
> involved in voting modernization issues in a big way.
> 
> http://www.verifiedvoting.org/index.asp
> 
> Henry Brady was my co-author for the original UC Berkeley proposal for
> California.
> 
> http://home.earthlink.net/~adechert/src_proposal.html
> 
> Professor Brady is widely known for his papers and books on voting systems.
> The main author of the Caltech-MIT reports from their voting project, Steve
> Ansolabehere was one of Henry's students when Henry taught at Harvard.
> Henry has two Ph.D.s from MIT.
> 
> http://www.apsanet.org/new/2003chairs.cfm
> 
> We are pulling together a great voting modernization projects.  It's an
> opportunity to get in on it at an early stage.  It should be rewarding for
> you, your community, and democracy.
> 
> Please contact me if you want to join us.
> 
> -- Alan Dechert  916-791-0456
> adechert at earthlink.net
> 
> 
> 

Please post the sourceforge link when it is set up.  

I was curious why http://www.notablesoftware.com/evote.html wasn't
mentioned.  I had the impression that was an early (and continuing)
portal for these issues.

Is the intent to do opensource all the way to commodity chips?  Else a
proprietary BIOS could be the weak link.

-- 
harry.g.george at boeing.com
6-6M31 Knowledge Management
Phone: (425) 294-8757



From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Jul 10 18:15:01 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 18:15:01 -0400
Subject: Convert between Windows style paths and POSIX style paths
References: <c9d82136.0307101244.4594e04d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3F0DE565.1CEA39C6@engcorp.com>

Noah wrote:
> 
> Does anyone have a function to convert back and forth between
> NT style paths and POSIX style? It seems trivial, but
> I want to make sure I don't overlook some obscure detail.
> Is it a simple matter of translating / and \ characters?
> 
> FYI, I need a Python function that does what cygpath does so that
> I can run a script on either NT or UNIX or Cygwin.
> I want my config files use one style of path.

You can use forward slashes in paths under Win32, except at the
command prompt.

Even if you switch to use all forward slashes, however, what do
you plan to do about drive letters?  There is no obvious mapping
to anything under POSIX, I think.  Are you planning on disallowing
paths that go anywhere but the current drive under NT?

-Peter



From fredrik at pythonware.com  Sun Jul 13 05:33:30 2003
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 11:33:30 +0200
Subject: Windows XP - Environment variable - Unicode
References: <3f0e77fc@epflnews.epfl.ch> <vgvtb26kob5035@news.supernews.com> <3F10795B.9000501@v.loewis.de> <vh27ooiajenv87@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <ber900$vkt$1@main.gmane.org>

John Roth wrote:

> > Read the source, Luke.
>
> I haven't gotten into the Python source, and my name
> is not Luke.

And life's to short to waste on movies...

> On reading this over, it does sound a bit more strident than my
> responses usually do, but I will admit to being irritated at the
> assumption that you need to read the source to find out the
> answer to various questions.

Well, you obviously didn't bother to read the documentation for
os.environ, so pointing you to the source sounds like a reasonable
idea.

</F>







From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Jul 15 17:17:11 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 17:17:11 -0400
Subject: Sio serial module install problem with ActiveState
References: <pan.2003.07.14.21.40.42.609932@zexcite.zcom> <3F132FB3.CF0E6B44@engcorp.com> <pan.2003.07.15.02.56.25.188912@zexcite.zcom> <3F13703C.C12392D6@engcorp.com> <6e07b825.0307151214.3d2cce2@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3F146F57.94A49564@engcorp.com>

"yaipa h." wrote:
> 
> All,
> 
> Worked like a charm for me too! I used it to develop an
> automated attendant for a Serial Oven Controller. The
> attendant ran from Sparc Solaris using Python 2.1 and pySerial.
> 
> The only weird thing, which I didn't get a chance to
> debug, was a perfectly working script under RS-232
> got terribly out of sync when R/W I/O to a RS-485
> serial network.  Any reason why that would be?

Well, one reason might be that RS232 is point-to-point, while
RS-485 is many-to-many, at least in principle.  Was this a 
bus network, or at least a "multidrop" situation with one master
and many slaves?  There are no guarantees in those situations, unless
you've been very careful to ensure proper handshaking, timing,
and such.

If you want to discuss this, please define "out of sync" in more
detail... it could mean anything.

-Peter



From not.valid at address.org  Thu Jul  3 02:58:46 2003
From: not.valid at address.org (not your business)
Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 06:58:46 GMT
Subject: How Do You Get Redirected Input?
References: <l6GMa.6947$n%5.1338@nwrddc02.gnilink.net> <mailman.1057187885.30840.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <GuQMa.10372$n%5.9424@nwrddc02.gnilink.net>

Cliff Wells wrote:

> On Wed, 2003-07-02 at 12:10, not your business wrote:
>> I have a shell tool that accepts arguments on the command line. I would
>> like
>> to check if the input is being piped in.  That is,
> 
> import sys
> 
> if sys.stdin.isatty():
>     print "not piped in"
> else:
>     print "piped in"
> 
> 
Excellent, sir.  Thank you very much.



From jar at mminternet.com  Tue Jul 29 22:19:22 2003
From: jar at mminternet.com (james roush)
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 19:19:22 -0700
Subject: Trustudio plugin for Eclipse IDE
References: <MPG.19904d4257bd4f579896bb@news.mminternet.com> <afe3b146.0307291640.3122db1@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <MPG.1990cb0a4bae7dff9896bc@news.mminternet.com>

In article <afe3b146.0307291640.3122db1 at posting.google.com>, 
brian_l at yahoo.com says...
> james roush <jar at mminternet.com> wrote in message news:<MPG.19904d4257bd4f579896bb at news.mminternet.com>...
> > I've been trying, without success, to download the Trustudio plugin for 
> > the Eclipse IDE.  I've been trying to get it from 
> > http://www.xored.com/download.php.  
> > 
> > Has anyone gotten it from somewhere else?
> 
> http://sourceforge.net/projects/trustudio/
> 
I managed to het it from the Trustudio web sight after all.    They must 
have been having server problems earlier.  


-- 
-----------------------
James A Roush
jar @ mminternet.com
-----------------------



From guettler at thomas-guettler.de  Thu Jul 31 08:24:01 2003
From: guettler at thomas-guettler.de (Thomas =?ISO-8859-15?Q?G=FCttler?=)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 14:24:01 +0200
Subject: regular expression
References: <guthivo3oliuj96l00kriof2hdev7oujfb@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <bgb1p2$mvkre$1@ID-63505.news.uni-berlin.de>

Wiebke P?tzold wrote:

> Hi all,
> 
> I wrote a little program. Here it is:
> 
> import sys
> import Mk4py
> 
> db = Mk4py.storage("c:\\datafile.mk",1)
> vw = db.view("people")
> 
> def func(row):
>     try:
>         if row.Nachname[0:1]=='G':
>             return 1
>         else:
>             return 0
>     except AttributeError:
>         return 0
> 
> 
> vf = vw.filter(func)
> 
> for r in vf:
>     print  vw[r.index].Nachname,vw[r.index].Kongressbereich
>     
> 
> I create a database that contains a table. 'Nachname' and
> 'Kongressbereich' are special fieldnames. This program can search for
> a special letter. In my example it is 'G'. and the search takes place
> in 'Nachname'.
> Mow I want to use regular expression. So that I can limit my search.
> For example: I can search for Ge and it is not relevant wich letters
> follow
> Could somebody help me with this task?

You can do it without regular expressions, too:


if nachname.startswith("Ge"): ...


# "Ge" somewhere in the string?
if nachname.find("Ge")!=-1: ...

The corresponding regular expressions would be:

if re.match(r'^Ge.*$'): ...

if re.match(r'^.*Ge.*$'): ...


.* matches everything
^ matches start of string
$ matches end of string

See the documentation of the module "re"


 thomas





From llothar at web.de  Wed Jul  9 15:12:23 2003
From: llothar at web.de (Lothar Scholz)
Date: 9 Jul 2003 12:12:23 -0700
Subject: Shared vs static link performance hit --and Windows?
References: <k7clgvoqjur1f10mosue3os74vv7nd34hi@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <6ee58e07.0307091112.4931c31b@posting.google.com>

Christos "TZOTZIOY" Georgiou <tzot at sil-tec.gr> wrote in message news:<k7clgvoqjur1f10mosue3os74vv7nd34hi at 4ax.com>...
> Last night I was compiling the latest python snapshot at my home Linux
> system (a K6-III @420 --the extra 20 Hz is overclocking :); then I tried
> building a shared version of the interpreter.  I did some speed
> comparisons, and pystone reported ~6090 pystones for the shared and
> ~7680 pystones for the (default) static build.
> 

Yes, today i recommend to not use the -fPIC option for certain
libraries when compiling a .so library. If you use it you get one more
indirection and this can be very bad on systems with long CPU
pipelines (PIV systems). If you don't use -fPIC then the shared
library will be patched and is only shared on disk but not in memory.

I hope that the UNIX community gives up this 20 year old ELF format
and start to use a new one with better performance - look at KDE to
see the pain.



From naren at trillium.com  Wed Jul 16 20:29:08 2003
From: naren at trillium.com (Narendra C. Tulpule)
Date: 16 Jul 2003 17:29:08 -0700
Subject: Recursion in compile()
Message-ID: <781faf41.0307161629.6295618b@posting.google.com>

Hi,
  is there any way to allow recusrion in compile()? Something like:

src_code = 'def fact(n):\n\tif n <= 1:\n\t\treturn 1\n\telse:' + \
           '\n\t\treturn n * fact(n-1)\n\nprint fact(12)\n'
cobj = compile(src_code, 'myfile', 'exec')
eval(cobj)

I did a search on 'recursion' in comp.lang.python but didn't turn up
anything relevant. Maybe I've highhhhhh expectations :-)
-- Naren.



From rosendo at dbora.com  Tue Jul 29 13:16:08 2003
From: rosendo at dbora.com (rosendo)
Date: 29 Jul 2003 10:16:08 -0700
Subject: urllib2 http status
Message-ID: <b9e4893d.0307290916.78b358b8@posting.google.com>

I'm writing a http client to test some applications.
The code below it's the core of the client:
        try:
                start_ts = time.time()
                request = urllib2.Request('http://%s%s'
%(req.host,req.path), req.data, req.headers)
                request.add_header("Referer", 'http://%s%s'
%(req.host,req.path))
                c.add_cookie_header(request)                
                c.clear()
                #request = urllib2.Request('http://www.google.com')
                try:                    
                    response = urllib2.urlopen(request)
                    data = response.read()
                    headers = response.info().headers
                    #status = response.info().status
                    d = c.extract_cookies(response, request)    
                except urllib2.URLError, msg:
                    print "URLError: ", msg;
                except urllib2.HTTPError, msg:
                    print "HTTPError: ", msg;
                except: 
                    print sys.exc_type,sys.exc_value
                duration = time.time() - start_ts
                
                print 'The result had status: %s duration: %5.2f
http://%s%s' %(response.info().status, duration, req.host,req.path)
        except:
                print sys.exc_type,sys.exc_value
                print 'cagadita....' + str(req)


Before this code we declare c = ClientCookie.Cookies(), etc......
Then i don't know how to know the status of the response, because the
property:
response.info().status seems not to function like i wait, that it's
with an 200, 301, 400, etc.....
How can obtein this status?
I prefer not use httplib, but with urllib2 i'm not sure if i could
obtain the HTTP status.

Thanks in advance.
Rosendo.



From bdesth.nospam at removeme.free.fr  Thu Jul 31 13:10:43 2003
From: bdesth.nospam at removeme.free.fr (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 19:10:43 +0200
Subject: Python's biggest compromises
In-Reply-To: <899f842.0307310555.56134f71@posting.google.com>
References: <899f842.0307310555.56134f71@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3f294ba4$0$8919$626a54ce@news.free.fr>

Anthony_Barker wrote:
(snip)

> 
> What to you think python largest compromises are?
> 
> The three that come to my mind are significant whitespace, dynamic
> typing, and that it is interpreted - not compiled. 

IMHO these are not compromises, but features.

Bruno




From InsaneStewy at hotmail.com  Sat Jul 19 22:00:22 2003
From: InsaneStewy at hotmail.com (Id0x)
Date: 19 Jul 2003 19:00:22 -0700
Subject: Newbie! I'm a newbie! What's wrong with this program?
Message-ID: <5da8e4b3.0307191800.48dc0a6d@posting.google.com>

I'm very new at programing, and while I was practicing I came across
something that confuses me. The code for the program is at the bottom.
The program it self is designed to convert hours to minutes. Now the
problem is, after I run the program I get strange results.


[\| Running the Program |/]

INPUT:
Ms-Dos Prompt:
C:\python23\> python practice.py

OUTPUT:

There are 300
None minutes in 5 hours <--- Problem occurs here

[\|End Running of Program|/]

Now the problem is... where does the "None" come from? And why is it
there? Here is the code. Please email me if you can. Your help is
appreciated.

InsaneStewy at hotmail.com

import math ##loads the math modual
########Start created Functions#########
##Function for converting minutes to hours##
def minHour(x):
  min = 60
  hour = min * x
  print hour
##Function creates a new line##
def newLine():
  print
#######End created Functions########
###Start Variables####
x_hours = 5
###End Variables####
newLine();
print "There are", minHour(x_hours), "minutes in", x_hours, "hours"; 
newLine();
print "Program Terminated.";
newLine();



From gminick at hacker.pl  Tue Jul 29 03:49:12 2003
From: gminick at hacker.pl (Wojtek Walczak)
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 07:49:12 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: newbie needs a little help... trying to write an ftp script.
References: <e84f5d12.0307281040.42a19391@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bg58tn$4jc$1@atlantis.news.tpi.pl>

Dnia 28 Jul 2003 11:40:48 -0700, google account napisa?(a):
[...]
> The docs suggest that I could do something like....
> 
> import ftplib
> 	
> ftp = ftplib.FTP('172.30.30.30')  # This is wrong,  somehow...?
> ftp.login(user,pass)
                 ^^^^
Do not use pass in this way - it's a python's keyword. Use some other 
name instead.

> ftp.retrlines('LIST')  # I believe it might need to be
> ftp.retrlines('ls -al')
> ftp.sendcmd('prompt')
> ftp.cwd('folder')
> ftp.retrbinary(retr *tgz)
> ftp.quit()
Here's a simple example:

import ftplib,sys

ftp = ftplib.FTP('ftp.python.org')
ftp.login('anonymous','qwe at asd.pl')
print ftp.retrlines('LIST')
ftp.cwd('pub/python')
print ftp.retrlines('LIST')
print ftp.retrbinary('retr README', sys.stdout.write)
ftp.quit()

-- 
[ Wojtek Walczak - gminick (at) underground.org.pl ]
[        <http://gminick.linuxsecurity.pl/>        ]
[ "...rozmaite zwroty, matowe od patyny dawnosci." ]




From jocsch at phreaker.net  Sun Jul  6 13:44:13 2003
From: jocsch at phreaker.net (Markus Joschko)
Date: Sun, 06 Jul 2003 19:44:13 +0200
Subject: absolute beginners question about API documentation
Message-ID: <be9nn3$2k0j3$1@ID-47851.news.dfncis.de>

Hi all,
I' new to python programming but a longtime java programmer. 
Is there an API documentation like the javadoc API from java?

I'm want to know all methods I can use on dictionaries. Where can I get an
overview about these? 
I looked on python.org but haven't found such an overview.

Thanks,
 Markus



From bokr at oz.net  Thu Jul 17 23:11:56 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 18 Jul 2003 03:11:56 GMT
Subject: A challenge to the ASCII proponents.
References: <mailman.1058278343.23104.python-list@python.org> <bf167a$pvt$1@panix2.panix.com> <ufzl7rdno.fsf@online.no> <3F142A58.80426AA4@hotmail.com> <2259b0e2.0307161620.4a9353f1@posting.google.com> <Xns93BB246FDDBCFJanC@213.118.75.80> <3F168011.3AEB3EFC@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <bf7ohs$jcg$0@216.39.172.122>

On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 11:53:05 +0100, Alan Kennedy <alanmk at hotmail.com> wrote:

>JanC wrote:
>
>> The verb "gignooskoo" (trying to write it with Latin letters ;)
>
>Why limit yourself to that nasty little us-ascii alphabet? >;-)
>
>Here it is in a format where almost everybody will be able to see the
>original greek verb on their screen.
>
>#---------
><?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?>
><verb>&#x3b3;&#x3af;&#x3b3;&#x3bd;&#x3c9;&#x3c3;&#x3ba;&#x3c9;</verb>
>#---------
>
>For anybody who has MS Internet Explorer 5+, Netscape 6+, Mozilla 1+,
>i.e. any browser that supports XML, simply save this to a disk file
>and open it in your chosen browser.
>
Sorry, that doesn't work for my old browser (NS4.5 ;-) Try this:

====< giginooskoo.html >======================================================
<html><head>
<META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; CHARSET=iso-8859-7">
<style> H1 {font-size: 72pt} </style>
<title>gignooskoo</title></head><body>
<h1>&#947;&#943;&#947;&#957;&#969;&#963;&#954;&#969;</h1>
</body></html>
==============================================================================

>Of course, I could also have used charset "iso-8859-7", in which case
>the character codes would be one-byte-only. But I don't think that
>would have travelled well over UseNet to most of you.
>
The above seems to work for me. Does it you?  Windows-1253 as char set should also work, I think.
(I made the char numeric entities decimal, as some old browsers don't do &#x...;)
(There's also some unnecessary formatting ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From shalehperry at comcast.net  Tue Jul 22 20:37:43 2003
From: shalehperry at comcast.net (Sean 'Shaleh' Perry)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 17:37:43 -0700
Subject: lists and files question
In-Reply-To: <3F1DCF52.7040607@hotmail.com>
References: <3F1DCF52.7040607@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <200307221737.43290.shalehperry@comcast.net>

On Tuesday 22 July 2003 16:57, hokiegal99 wrote:
> This code:
>
> import os, re, string
> setpath = raw_input("Enter the path: ")
> for root, dirs, files in os.walk(setpath):
> 	id = re.compile('Microsoft Excel Worksheet')
> 	fname = files
> #	print fname
> 	content = open(fname[1],'rb')
>
> Produces this error:
>
> IOError: Error[2] No such file or directory 'Name of File'
>

if you replace your logic with some prints you will quickly see the problem.

What happens is os.walk() passes filenames without their path.  You need to 
use os.path.join() to get the full name back.





From anthony_barker at hotmail.com  Fri Jul  4 13:57:10 2003
From: anthony_barker at hotmail.com (Anthony_Barker)
Date: 4 Jul 2003 10:57:10 -0700
Subject: Inputbox with win32api?
References: <mailman.1056745609.15271.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <899f842.0307040957.7756ffe5@posting.google.com>

After a bit of hunting I found
import pywin.mfc.dialog
InternetAddress = pywin.mfc.dialog.GetSimpleInput("Email Address?")

Thanks,

Anthony
http://xminc.com/linux



Bob Gailer <bgailer at alum.rpi.edu> wrote in message news:<mailman.1056745609.15271.python-list at python.org>...
> At 12:44 PM 6/27/2003 -0700, Anthony_Barker wrote:
> 
> >Is there a simple way of throwing up a simple Inputbox with win32 api
> >in python?
> >
> >I could use tk
> >data=tkSimpleDialog.askstring( title="Input",prompt="Email Address?")
> >
> >but that adds 700K to the package when I distribute it to non python
> >users as it forces me to include tk. (Using MacMillian installer).



From jflanigan at netzero.net  Wed Jul  2 20:29:48 2003
From: jflanigan at netzero.net (jose flanigan)
Date: 2 Jul 2003 17:29:48 -0700
Subject: read in Matlab *.mat files on a win32 machine and on Solaris?
Message-ID: <c6f263dc.0307021629.1e76812b@posting.google.com>

Does anybody have any code for python to read in Matlab *.mat version
5 files on a win32 machine and on Solaris?

I found matfile (<ftp://ion.le.ac.uk/matfile/matfile.tar.gz>. ), which
covers Linux, but I can't get it to compile on Solaris on win32.

Thanks in advance.



From gh at ghaering.de  Wed Jul  2 08:08:17 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 14:08:17 +0200
Subject: how to pass a file descriptor in a swig module
In-Reply-To: <bdueu3$ddj$1@news-reader3.wanadoo.fr>
References: <bdueu3$ddj$1@news-reader3.wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <bduhva$10ga3j$2@ID-124666.news.dfncis.de>

kj.kjn wrote:
> My function func(File * des) is embedded in a module swig.
> 
> I would to know how to call this function from python script and if it's
> necessay
> 
> to declare a typemaps ?

Not sure if that helps here, but Python file objects have a function 
called fileno() to return the file number.

-- Gerhard




From fredrik at pythonware.com  Wed Jul  2 05:55:11 2003
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 11:55:11 +0200
Subject: How do I get the fractions of the visible part of a canvas?
References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0307021049020.32002-100000@sampo.csc.fi>
Message-ID: <bdua53$2hn$1@main.gmane.org>

Mickel Gr?nroos wrote:

> I would like to be able to ask the canvas something like:
>
> t = canvas.visiblebox()
>
> and it would return a two-tuple of two-tuples with coordinates (of the
> a and b points in the picture above), say:
>
> t = ((10,10), (90,30))
>
> Using these values I could calculate the fractions myself.
>
> Any ideas?

this might work:

t = (
    (w.canvasx(0), w.canvasy(0)),
    (w.canvasx(w.winfo_width()), w.canvasy(w.winfo_height()))
    )

</F>







From bokr at oz.net  Fri Jul 18 17:50:24 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 18 Jul 2003 21:50:24 GMT
Subject: "\n" in ASCII-file
References: <bf8j40$bj4e4$1@ID-108519.news.uni-berlin.de> <mailman.1058527708.11589.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bf9q30$de0$1@216.39.172.122>

On Fri, 18 Jul 2003 13:26:59 +0200, =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?= <gh at ghaering.de> wrote:

>Martin P wrote:
>> Hello,
>> 
>> for a short exercise-program I have to read the lines in an ASCII-file.
>> 
>> But every line has a new-line-feed ("\n") at the end of the line. (The
>> ASCII-file was made with Windows Notepad).
>> Is this only because I used Windows (and Notepad)?
>
>Yes.
>
>> And... is there any special method to read lines from a file without "\n"?
>
>Most of the time, I want to strip any trailing whitespace and do 
Nit:                                   ^^^^^^^^
>something like:
>
>f = file("/path/to/my/file")
>for line in f:
>     line = line.strip()
                 .rstrip()
                 ^^^^^^^^^      
>     # ...
>
>Unlike Karl's method, this scales to larger files without needing to 
>read the whole file into memory.
>
>Files are iterable since Python 2.2.
>

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From gerrit.muller at embeddedsystems.nl  Tue Jul 15 09:48:36 2003
From: gerrit.muller at embeddedsystems.nl (Gerrit Muller)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 15:48:36 +0200
Subject: link collection
Message-ID: <3F140634.2010201@embeddedsystems.nl>

As a service to the visitors of the Gaudi systems architecting website:
http://www.extra.research.philips.com/natlab/sysarch/
I have added a page with links to Python resources at
http://www.extra.research.philips.com/natlab/sysarch/PythonLinks.html

It is my intention to have this page as a quick starting point for 
system architects. They can benefit a lot from Python, for instance to 
make tools, simulations or prototypes. I welcome suggestions for 
improvements, although I am not in favor of  a big maintenance effort.

This link collection is bootstrapped by proudly stealing the links 
mentioned in Dr Dobbs Python URL by Steven Taschuk. Many thanks to Steven.

kind regards Gerrit




From Olivier.POYEN at clf-dexia.com  Wed Jul  9 05:46:11 2003
From: Olivier.POYEN at clf-dexia.com (POYEN OP Olivier (DCL))
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 11:46:11 +0200
Subject: Executables under Win32
Message-ID: <8963D6370B323E4AA3241200F0EAF7318C0F87@FCEXVEXM002.dcl.int.dexwired.net>


May I suggest you use google groups search engine. 

You'll get a lot a answer, such as py2exe and MacMillan installer.

AFAIK, there should even be some hints in the python F.A.Q



HTH,

---OPQ


> -----Message d'origine-----
> De : Fuzzyman [mailto:michael at foord.net]
> Envoy? : mercredi 9 juillet 2003 10:37
> ? : python-list at python.org
> Objet : Executables under Win32
> 
> 
> IS there a tool to make Python Executables (binaries) under Win32...
> or must people have a distribution of Python to use any scripts I
> write ?
> 
> I don't need to hide my source code - but would liek to make it easy
> for a newbie to use my scripts.
> 
> Fuzzyman
> ---
> Everyone has talent. What is rare is the courage to follow 
> talent to the dark place where it leads. -Erica Jong
> Ambition is a poor excuse for not having sense enough to be 
> lazy. -Milan Kundera 
> 
> http://www.voidspace.org.uk 
> Where Headspace Meets Cyberspace
> Cyberpunk and Science Resource Site
> Exploring the worlds of Psychology, Spirituality, Science and 
> Computing
> --
> http://www.fuchsiashockz.co.uk
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/void-shockz
> http://www.learnlandrover.com
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 
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From davidb at mcs.st-and.ac.uk  Tue Jul 15 16:34:31 2003
From: davidb at mcs.st-and.ac.uk (David Boddie)
Date: 15 Jul 2003 13:34:31 -0700
Subject: Embedding Python in a plugin
References: <h2GQa.1856$Mc.172386@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <4de76ee2.0307151234.4a2abbe5@posting.google.com>

Daniel Holth <dholth at fastmail.fm> wrote in message news:<h2GQa.1856$Mc.172386 at newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>...
> Hello!  I am trying to embed Python into an xmms plugin using
> Debian/unstable/i386, gcc 3.3.1 and Python 2.2.3+.  The plugin is a shared
> library loaded by xmms.  The plugin is dynamically linked with the python
> library.

Sounds good so far!

> Running scripts works but when I try to import python extensions I get these
> kinds of errors:
> 
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<string>", line 1, in ?
>   File "/home/dholth/lib/python2.2/site-packages/xmmspy.py", line 12, in ?
>     import time
> ImportError: /usr/lib/python2.2/lib-dynload/time.so: undefined symbol:
> PyExc_IOError

Yes, I hate it when these crop up. I've also seen ones involving
_Py_NoneStruct or something similar.

> I'm using all the compiler options I can find!
> 
> /bin/sh ./libtool --mode=link gcc -Wall -I/usr/include/xmms
> -I/usr/include/gtk-1.2 -I/usr/include/glib-1.2 -I/usr/lib/glib/include -g
> -O2 -I/usr/include/python2.2 -I/usr/include/glib-1.2
> -I/usr/include/python2.2 -g -O2 -I/usr/include/python2.2   -o libxmmspy.la
> -rpath /usr/lib/xmms/General -module -avoid-version -Xlinker
> -export-dynamic xmmspy.lo  -lstdc++ -lpython2.2 -L/usr/lib -L/usr/X11R6/lib
> -lgtk -lgdk -rdynamic -lgmodule -lglib -ldl -lXi -lXext -lX11 -lm -lxmms
> 
> ... including "-Xlinker -export-dynamic" as suggested by distutils.

I think that you can probably remove some of those options and stick
with the "-Xlinker -export-dynamic" but you may need to use
"-Xlinker -R <path>" for runtime linking. Maybe -rpath handles that.
I'm a newcomer to this myself, so I'm sure I'll be corrected if I'm out of
line.

> How do I embed Python in an application where the main application has no
> knowledge of Python, only the dynamically loaded plugin does?  Which
> programs do this already?

These problems receive some attention in the Python FAQ and in the
Extending and Embedding section of the Python manual. Unfortunately, some
of the recommendations I've seen aren't workable if you don't have any control
over how the target application was built: using various options with dlopen,
for example.

Anyway, the problem you have at the top of this message can probably
be solved by linking against the time module, which is probably residing in

/usr/lib/python2.2/lib-dynload/time.so

or somewhere similar.

Good luck!

David
-- 
http://www.boddie.org.uk/david/Projects/



From jjl at pobox.com  Tue Jul 15 17:49:12 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 15 Jul 2003 22:49:12 +0100
Subject: [OT] sentances with two meanings
References: <mailman.1058278343.23104.python-list@python.org> <bf167a$pvt$1@panix2.panix.com> <ufzl7rdno.fsf@online.no>
Message-ID: <87oezvbgvb.fsf@pobox.com>

Syver Enstad <syver-en+usenet at online.no> writes:
[...]
> Does "to know" in english also mean to feel someone? In my own language
> the direct translation of the english know also means to feel. I could
> say (translated) "I know the cold", meaning I feel the cold
> weather. 

There's a similar meaning in English.  Isn't used often, probably
because it implies some kind of seriousness, usually as "to know <some
emotion>".  "I know the cold" works, but it'd sound like you were
about to tell us that you did 30 years hard labour in Siberia (OK, not
necessarily *quite* that extreme ;-).  Or maybe it sounds serious
because it isn't used often <0.5 wink>.

Not usually used about people, though, because "to know <some person>"
in a context which implies anything other than the everyday meaning is
associated with "the biblical sense" (which is almost an idiomatic
phrase in itself!).

How the hell did nature sneak all this subtlety of English usage into
my brain without me noticing it?

making-a-link-with-Python-would-be-easy-but-pointless-ly y'rs,


John



From sjmachin at lexicon.net  Wed Jul  2 09:05:23 2003
From: sjmachin at lexicon.net (John Machin)
Date: 2 Jul 2003 06:05:23 -0700
Subject: remove special characters from line
References: <3f01a27d$0$43847$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net> <3f01e0b0$0$43854$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net>
Message-ID: <c76ff6fc.0307020505.3bcbd6bc@posting.google.com>

"Chris Rennert" <Chris.Rennert at mdi-oshkosh.com> wrote in message news:<3f01e0b0$0$43854$39cecf19 at news.twtelecom.net>...
> I apologize for being vague on what a "special" character is in my context.
> For me, it would be anything that isn't A..Z , a..z, or 0..9  .
> My list seems to work, or like it was suggested I could have used a string
> as well.  I thank everyone for the help, and I am really enjoying learning
> Python.
> 

That's good news ... and here's a couple of more lessons:

(1) You can use the translate method:

# once
import string
id_trans = "".join([chr(x) for x in range(256)])
good_chars = string.letters + string.digits
bad_chars = "".join([x for x in id_trans if x not in good_chars])
# then once for each maybe_bad_string
good_string = maybe_bad_string.translate(id_trans, bad_chars)

That is a bit over the top, but reading the doc to understand what is
going down will pay dividends.

(2) Here's a more straightforward way using the re module

# once
import re
subber = re.compile(r"[^A-Za-z0-9]").sub
# then once for each maybe_bad_string
good_string = subber("", maybe_bad_string)
# simpler but slower:
good_string = re.sub(r"[^A-Za-z0-9]", "", maybe_bad_string)
# and as a bonus extra
show_where_junk_was_string = subber("?", maybe_bad_string)

HTH,
John



From postmaster at 127.0.0.1  Sat Jul 12 23:27:45 2003
From: postmaster at 127.0.0.1 (David McNab)
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 15:27:45 +1200
Subject: new in town
References: <AeVPa.445271$Vi5.11496890@news1.calgary.shaw.ca> <2a897f11.0307121139.21470fbb@posting.google.com> <EM_Pa.420940$ro6.10135135@news2.calgary.shaw.ca> <pan.2003.07.13.03.22.29.943248@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <pan.2003.07.13.03.27.44.711790@127.0.0.1>

One more thing Elaine - I may offend others on this list in saying this,
but if you're doing GUI applications, I strongly suggest that you dive in
and familiarise yourself with Tkinter. It could well be the only GUI you
ever need in Python.

Don't be intimidated if the Tkinter docs you come across urge you to
approach it from a Tk viewpoint- there's an excellent guide at:
http://www.astro.washington.edu/owen/TkinterSummary.html

I argue for Tkinter over another popular Python-accessible GUI, wxWindows,
because Tkinter is smaller, faster and far less buggy, and has a really
nice 'feel' within the Python environment.

David




From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Wed Jul  2 20:12:48 2003
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 2 Jul 2003 20:12:48 -0400
Subject: What's the use of module spaces? (was Re: Circular Inheritance)
References: <mailman.1057099023.14043.python-list@python.org> <mailman.1057124943.21695.python-list@python.org> <bdus8k$qsq$1@panix1.panix.com> <mailman.1057174985.2375.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bdvse0$394$1@panix3.panix.com>

In article <mailman.1057174985.2375.python-list at python.org>,
Ian Bicking  <ianb at colorstudy.com> wrote:
>On Wed, 2003-07-02 at 10:03, Aahz wrote:
>> In article <mailman.1057124943.21695.python-list at python.org>,
>> Ian Bicking  <ianb at colorstudy.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>You might encounter less problems if those classes go together in a
>>>single module, but module boundaries are just there to help the
>>>programmer organize code, they have little formal meaning.
>> 
>> That's not true.  Modules define a namespace, and Python's execution
>> model makes heavy use of the "global" (read, current module's) namespace
>> for name resolution.
>
>Certainly modules have considerable *semantics* and effect execution. 
>But they have little *meaning*.  There's all sorts of semantics
>associated with classes, but that's incidental to the meaning of a class
>-- a class is a set up behaviors common to a kind of object.  A module
>is just a pile of stuff the programmer likes to keep together.  It's
>essentially a clerical feature.

You say that as if the organizing power of clerical work has little
intrinsic meaning.  I disagree.  It's precisely that organizing power
that lends value.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

Usenet is not a democracy.  It is a weird cross between an anarchy and a
dictatorship.  



From bdesth.nospam at removeme.free.fr  Sun Jul 27 18:10:45 2003
From: bdesth.nospam at removeme.free.fr (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 00:10:45 +0200
Subject: Static typing
In-Reply-To: <5627c6fa.0307270537.1afc94d3@posting.google.com>
References: <LvdUa.905$DU.696@fe12.atl2.webusenet.com> <3f218ef1$0$27926$626a54ce@news.free.fr> <3f219c8d$1@nntp0.pdx.net> <lWAUa.25680$Gw4.21886@fe06.atl2.webusenet.com> <3f23ae06$0$21093$626a54ce@news.free.fr> <5627c6fa.0307270537.1afc94d3@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3f244c06$0$21113$626a54ce@news.free.fr>

Tayss wrote:
> Bruno Desthuilliers <bdesth.nospam at removeme.free.fr> wrote in message news:<3f23ae06$0$21093$626a54ce at news.free.fr>...
> 
>>>FWIW, I do favor the addition of optional static typing for the two
>>>reasons Scott described - interface documentation and optimization.
>>
>>Interface documentation may be obtained in others ways (docstring for 
>>exemple).
> 
> 
> Indeed!  As I remember, Jython uses doc strings for typing, when it
> presents an API to Java.  So it's in the comments, and I think that's
> an oddly appropriate place for hints to the compiler.

In CPython, it is not supposed to be a hint to the compiler, it's 
supposed to be API documentation for the programmer.

>>And I'm not sure static typing would optimize anything, but 
>>not being a Python (nor anything else) guru, I would not bet my hand on 
>>this...
> 
> 
> If you mess around with lisp, you can easily see the compiled assembly
> language of your functions when you experiment with optional typing. 
> (By calling the function "disassemble".)  Normally, the compiler spews
> a lot of general code because it doesn't know what you've passed in. 
> But when you promise that you're passing in numbers or something, the
> assembly language is much tighter.

Lisp is not Python. I was talking about static typing 'optimizing' 
anything in Python.

> Sort of like when someone asks you to move something to a different
> house, and you have no idea how big it is.  If you were told, "It's
> just a pillow," you know that you don't need to order a huge truck or
> take any special precautions.

Err... Given the actual speed and cost of a decent PC processor, I'm not 
willing to trade my time for a few milliseconds. And if I really need to 
have a really fast code, I know where my C compiler is !-)

Bruno




From bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au  Fri Jul 11 23:30:32 2003
From: bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au (Ben Finney)
Date: 12 Jul 2003 13:20:32 +0950
Subject: The "intellectual property" misnomer
References: <mailman.1057978117.8939.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrnbgv1c7.q1.bignose-hates-spam@rose.localdomain.fake>

On Fri, 11 Jul 2003 22:47:21 -0400, Tim Peters wrote:
> Ben Finney wrote:
>> Guido van Rossum wrote:
>> > The PSF holds the intellectual property rights for Python
>> Ugh.  Please don't propagate this ridiculous, meaningless term.
> 
> Guido isn't writing a treatise on the law, he's briefly explaining
> (part of) what the PSF does.

The term he used doesn't explain anything, and only confuses.  It would
have been *less* confusing to say "The PSF holds something unspecified
for Python".  At least there is no pretence of explanation there.

> I doubt many are confused by what he said

People may have an assumption about what is meant by the term, but they
are almost certainly wrong, since the fields of law that are sometimes
lumped together by that term have almost nothing in common.

There is nothing useful indicated by the term "intellectual property
rights", because it presumes there is some commonality between fields of
law that deal with different intellectual concepts, impose different
restrictions, and presume different rights.

Those who are not confused by the term, are misguided as to what it
means.

> and you proved you're not [confused by the term]
> [by listing some disparate fields of law that might be referred to by
> the term]

This doesn't follow at all.  I requested that the "rights" being
referred to should be stated, not handwaved with a term that presumes
that copyright, patent, trademark, trade secret, or many other disparate
legal areas can be lumped together.

If PSF holds rights that are covered by *all* those fields of law, I'd
be very surprised; but if the "rights" are *not* covered by all those
different legal areas, then the term is useless.

>> If the PSF holds the copyright to Python, please say that.
>> If the PSF holds patents which cover Python, please say that.
>> If the PSF owns the trademark for Python, please say that.
>> If the PSF has trade secrets in Python, please say that.
> 
> So you somehow managed to divine Guido's intent from that "ridiculous,
> meaningless term"

No, I requested that the term be clarified, because *I don't* know what
is meant by "The PSF holds the intellectual property rights for Python".
It's a meaningless statement as it stands.

If the PSF holds software patents in Python, I imagine many would be
outraged.  I don't believe it does.  If it's not the case, why imply it
with an overbroad term?

If the PSF holds trade secrets in Python, they are surely nullified by
the publishing of the code.  If it's not the case, why imply it with an
overbroad term?

> <0.5 wink> -- part of the PSF's business is indeed dealing with all
> legalities affecting the use of Python.

Then a more meaningful statement would be "The PSF handles all
legalities affecting the use of Python".  At least that doesn't attempt
to specify something that can't be pointed to specifically with a single
term.

The harm done by implying ideas should be treated as property is
insidious and extremely counterproductive.  There's nothing gained by
using this term that is worth that.

> I don't think pedantic verbosity makes it any clearer, but may mislead
> due to omission.

And using a term that attempts to blanket wildly different legal rights
is *not* misleading due to omission?

[snip attempted proof-by-google]

-- 
 \        "I used to work in a fire hydrant factory. You couldn't park |
  `\                       anywhere near the place."  -- Steven Wright |
_o__)                                                                  |
http://bignose.squidly.org/ 9CFE12B0 791A4267 887F520C B7AC2E51 BD41714B



From paulpaterson at users.sourceforge.net  Sat Jul 26 11:20:24 2003
From: paulpaterson at users.sourceforge.net (Paul Paterson)
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 15:20:24 GMT
Subject: How safe is modifying locals()?
In-Reply-To: <bfttd5$gtc$1@online.de>
References: <BDcUa.100193$XV.6037947@twister.austin.rr.com>	 <MvCdnTkcoJNP_7yiXTWJjw@comcast.com>	 <WMdUa.100343$XV.6044659@twister.austin.rr.com> <mailman.1059173799.17228.python-list@python.org> <ZqlUa.102243$XV.6096809@twister.austin.rr.com> <bfttd5$gtc$1@online.de>
Message-ID: <Y_wUa.103853$XV.6162947@twister.austin.rr.com>

Stefan Schwarzer wrote:

> Hi Paul
> 
> Paul Paterson wrote:
> 
>> This is a very interesting (and Pythonic) approach, thanks for 
>> suggesting it! This is certainly what I would try to do if I were 
>> writing the code from scratch. It may be possible to construct a 
>> "namespace" type object which gets passed to the function.
> 
> 
> I think the most common way to make a namespace in Python is

<snip nice example of namespace class>

Thanks, the bare namespace class is essentially what I am going to try.

> 
> Of course, if you have a better name for your container, that's even
> better. Think of Ian's Point example. :-)

I think you may have missed my original post; I am writing a generic VB 
to Python converter so generating good names based on code intent would 
be pretty tough! Perhaps in v2.0 ;)

My current thinking is (for the orignal example of changing one 
variable, 'y' but not another, 'x'),

class Namespace: pas

# ByVal arguments passed directly, ByRef via a namespace
def change(x, byrefs):
     x = x + 1
     byrefs.y = byrefs.y + 1

ns = Namespace() # The local namespace
ns.x = 0
ns.y = 0
change(ns.x, ns)
# Now ns.x = 0, ns.y = 1


Paul




From FBatista at uniFON.com.ar  Tue Jul  8 10:42:42 2003
From: FBatista at uniFON.com.ar (Batista, Facundo)
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 11:42:42 -0300 
Subject: Container behaviour  (was: print attitude)
Message-ID: <A128D751272CD411BC9200508BC2194D01885726@escpl.tcp.com.ar>

#- Personally, I think the internal difference between str and repr hits
#- right upon a proper difference:  str is for a "reasonable"
#- human-readable representation, and repr is for as faithful and
#- informative a representation as possible.  These both have their uses
#- and I approve of the distinction.

Beyond the specific utilization of str or repr, the detail that get me
confused is:

repr (container) => repr (elements)
str (container) => repr (elements)

Why cannot I, when I want the repr of a container, get the repr of its
elements, and when I want the str of a container, get the str of its
elements?

Thank you all.

.	Facundo




From staschuk at telusplanet.net  Thu Jul 17 20:05:22 2003
From: staschuk at telusplanet.net (Steven Taschuk)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 18:05:22 -0600
Subject: hex to signed integer
In-Reply-To: <bf6e3u$d71$0@216.39.172.122>; from bokr@oz.net on Thu, Jul 17, 2003 at 03:07:42PM +0000
References: <vhbq0kr6ftvr0e@corp.supernews.com> <mailman.1058409374.25147.python-list@python.org> <bf6e3u$d71$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <20030717180522.C931@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>

Quoth Bengt Richter:
  [...]
>  >>> -2**31
>  -2147483648L
> Oops, is that a wart/buglet BTW?

That it's a long and not an int?  Certainly not a bug, arguably a
wart, and in any case it's 2's-complement's fault, not Python's:
-2**31 is equivalent to -(2**31), and the inner expression doesn't
fit into an int (on suitable machines).

I suppose long arithmetic could produce ints when possible, but it
seems unlikely to be worth the trouble.

-- 
Steven Taschuk             "The world will end if you get this wrong."
staschuk at telusplanet.net     -- "Typesetting Mathematics -- User's Guide",
                                 Brian Kernighan and Lorrinda Cherry




From akaihola at ambi-spam-me-not-tone.com  Mon Jul 21 16:48:42 2003
From: akaihola at ambi-spam-me-not-tone.com (Antti Kaihola)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 23:48:42 +0300
Subject: os.spawn[*] help
In-Reply-To: <bfhgmm$fmi$1@localhost.localdomain>
References: <bfhgmm$fmi$1@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <RhYSa.357$HC4.14@reader1.news.jippii.net>

Stephen Boulet wrote:
> I want to open some text in xemacs (on Windows) using os.spawn[*], but I 
> want the text to appear in the current xemacs window, as opposed to 
> opening a new xemacs window.

If you can do it from the command line, you can do it from Python. Use 
gnuserv and gnuclient (maybe gnuclientw in windows). See the xemacs docs 
for more accurate information--I haven't used xemacs on windows.




From davecook at nowhere.net  Fri Jul 11 15:02:26 2003
From: davecook at nowhere.net (David M. Cook)
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 19:02:26 GMT
Subject: treeview / pygtk problem
References: <eafaf631.0307101053.34cfa08f@posting.google.com> <mailman.1057867154.11801.python-list@python.org> <eafaf631.0307110739.fd3aeb3@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <6RDPa.8635$R92.1496@news2.central.cox.net>

In article <eafaf631.0307110739.fd3aeb3 at posting.google.com>, Andre Lerche
wrote:

>> col1 = g.TreeViewColumn ("col 1", renderer, text=0)
>> col2 = g.TreeViewColumn ("col 2", renderer, text=1)
>> 
>> That should solve your problem!  
>> 
>> -Tim
>> tim at gerla.net
> 
> Yes, this has solved my problem, I was really to dumb.

Hardly; this API is quite obscure.

Dave Cook



From megalith at btinternet.com  Fri Jul 25 05:57:51 2003
From: megalith at btinternet.com (Gordon Chapman)
Date: 25 Jul 2003 02:57:51 -0700
Subject: Regex: Limiting Scope without capturing results
References: <173ef463.0307240355.cf896bb@posting.google.com> <mailman.1059077808.8713.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <173ef463.0307250157.751a21f9@posting.google.com>

Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.1059077808.8713.python-list at python.org>...
> Sure, use (?:<pattern>).  Full details at 11:

Thanks guys, exactly what I was after.

G.



From CousinStanley at hotmail.com  Tue Jul 15 17:45:22 2003
From: CousinStanley at hotmail.com (Cousin Stanley)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 14:45:22 -0700
Subject: "Introduction to Tkinter" available in html format?
References: <Xns93B989B391AB0t45fs6vve@130.133.1.4> <bf14ns$a3otj$1@ID-130333.news.uni-berlin.de> <Xns93B9C1C981624t45fs6vve@130.133.1.4>
Message-ID: <bf1sh8$aa77s$1@ID-130333.news.uni-berlin.de>

| ...
| if it isn't too much trouble
| could you send it to me at my email

Psymaster ...

   I tried 3 different permutations of your eMail address
   and all 3 failed ...

   The one I use here is real ...

   Send me a good eMail address ...

-- 
Cousin Stanley
Human Being
Phoenix, Arizona





From bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au  Mon Jul 21 05:45:08 2003
From: bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au (Ben Finney)
Date: 21 Jul 2003 19:35:08 +0950
Subject: A challenge to the ASCII proponents.
References: <mailman.1058278343.23104.python-list@python.org> <bf167a$pvt$1@panix2.panix.com> <ufzl7rdno.fsf@online.no> <3F142A58.80426AA4@hotmail.com> <2259b0e2.0307161620.4a9353f1@posting.google.com> <Xns93BB246FDDBCFJanC@213.118.75.80> <3F168011.3AEB3EFC@hotmail.com> <3F172442.2040907@v.loewis.de> <oprsg8jf1xttxc4i@news.t-online.de> <3F195CC4.D426E416@hotmail.com> <slrnbhjm31.tp.bignose-hates-spam@rose.localdomain.fake> <3F1AA450.765D07FD@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <slrnbhmt6t.si4.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>

On Sun, 20 Jul 2003 15:16:48 +0100, Alan Kennedy wrote:
> Ben Finney wrote:
>> Which quickly leads to "You must use $BROWSER to view this site". 
>> No thanks.
> 
> No, that's the precise opposite of the point I was making. My position
> is "You must use markup-capable software to perceive what I've
> written. Your choice of software is entirely up to you: the only
> requirement is the ability to process (x|ht)ml". I try to avoid
> platform/language/os/browser dependent anything: that was the whole
> point of the post.

You also stipulated "... from a Usenet post".  Most Usenet readers do
not handle markup, nor should they.  There are many benefits from the
fact that posts are plain text, readable by any software that can handle
character streams; parsing a markup tree for an article is a whole order
of complexity that I'd rather not have in my newsreader.

Expecting people to use a news reader that attempts to parse markup and
render the result, is like expecting people to use an email reader that
attempts to parse markup and render ther result.  Don't.

-- 
 \            "I was in the grocery store. I saw a sign that said 'pet |
  `\      supplies'. So I did. Then I went outside and saw a sign that |
_o__)                          said 'compact cars'."  -- Steven Wright |
http://bignose.squidly.org/ 9CFE12B0 791A4267 887F520C B7AC2E51 BD41714B



From donn at drizzle.com  Wed Jul 23 01:36:45 2003
From: donn at drizzle.com (Donn Cave)
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 05:36:45 -0000
Subject: How to disable spawnv's child process output messages
References: None <db3b6d24.0307221808.54896699@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1058938603.850678@yasure>

Quoth nushin2 at yahoo.com (nushin):
| I have a program called hello_earth.py that is spawned by
| hello_moon.py, using spawnv( ) API as:
|
| os.spawnv(os.P_NOWAIT,'/usr/bin/python',('python','hello_earth.py'),('>/dev/null
| &'))
|
| I do not wish to see any output messages from the hello_earth.py when
| it is launched by its parent process and i do wish to see *only* the
| output messages from the parent process in the shell. Is Python
| capable to so such a thing?

What is the parent process in the shell?  You mean the one that calls
spawnv()?  If so - yes, Python can do that.  But not so easily.  You
can look at how spawnv is implemented (it's in Python), and read up
on the dup2 function (man 2 dup2) to see what's needed.  spawnv can't
do any kind of redirection.  I think I posted an example here a couple
weeks ago.

Or you can use the shell, more or less the way you were going but you
never invoked it -
  os.spawnv(os.P_NOWAIT, '/bin/sh', ['sh', '-c', 'python hello_earth.py > /dev/null'])

which is really about the same as
  os.system('python hello_earth.py > /dev/null &')

	Donn Cave, donn at drizzle.com



From m at moshez.org  Thu Jul 17 03:55:45 2003
From: m at moshez.org (Moshe Zadka)
Date: 17 Jul 2003 07:55:45 -0000
Subject: Python Quiz
In-Reply-To: <insRa.2532$0F4.131@nwrdny02.gnilink.net>
References: <insRa.2532$0F4.131@nwrdny02.gnilink.net>, <mailman.1058359706.27031.python-list@python.org> <3f156704$1@mail.hmgcc.gov.uk>
Message-ID: <20030717075545.14098.qmail@green.zadka.com>

On Thu, 17 Jul 2003, "Raymond Hettinger" <vze4rx4y at verizon.net> wrote:

> Didn't FORTRAN popularise the idea of having
> the language separate from tons of special purpose
> libraries?

Python has "batteries included", which are part of the core language in
the sense that most programs depend on them. It does use nice modular
design for that, but I'd doubt if "separation" is the correct term :)
 
-- 
Moshe Zadka -- http://moshez.org/
Buffy: I don't like you hanging out with someone that... short.
Riley: Yeah, a lot of young people nowadays are experimenting with shortness.
Agile Programming Language -- http://www.python.org/




From usenet_spam at janc.invalid  Tue Jul 15 22:02:18 2003
From: usenet_spam at janc.invalid (JanC)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 02:02:18 GMT
Subject: Library for pop over ssl?
References: <bersm5$88gse$1@ID-165840.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <Xns93BA29128EBB2JanC@213.118.75.80>

Marco Herrn <herrn at gmx.net> schreef:

> Hi, I know of poplib, which does what I need except that it doesn't
> support SSL encryption. imaplib has SSL-support. But I want it with
> pop3. Is there a library available that does this or do I have to
> implement it myself?

You can always use stunnel to SSL-ize a "normal" protocol...
<http://www.stunnel.org/>

-- 
JanC

"Be strict when sending and tolerant when receiving."
RFC 1958 - Architectural Principles of the Internet - section 3.9



From chasm at rift.sytes.net  Wed Jul  2 19:02:08 2003
From: chasm at rift.sytes.net (Julian Tibble)
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 23:02:08 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: (Numeric) should -7 % 5 = -2 ?
References: <87k7b6cf3d.fsf_-_@schedar.com> <mailman.1056836805.17229.python-list@python.org> <290620030817191641%pecora@anvil.nrl.navy.mil> <3g32gvcolis4485956egtc35akm6lh3uq5@4ax.com> <mailman.1057088943.30504.python-list@python.org> <020720031459050258%pecora@anvil.nrl.navy.mil>
Message-ID: <slrnbg6p3g.cf2.chasm@galileo.rift>

In article <020720031459050258%pecora at anvil.nrl.navy.mil>,
Louis M. Pecora wrote:
> In article <mailman.1057088943.30504.python-list at python.org>, Bob
> Gailer <bgailer at alum.rpi.edu> wrote:
> 
>> "When an integer a is divided by another m, one has
>>          a = km + r
>> where the remainder is some positive integer less than m.
> 
> Maybe I'm misunderstanding this, but what about -7 divided by 5?  We
> get k=-1 and r=-2.  

-7 = (-2) * 5  +  3

So actually, k = -2 and r = 3 


> m can be negative.  Maybe your quote was for the positive integers only.

True, that definition does not make sense when m is negative. When I came
across the subject in introductory group theory they said "positive divisor".

Julian



From simon_place at whsmithnet.co.uk  Sun Jul  6 17:42:11 2003
From: simon_place at whsmithnet.co.uk (simon place)
Date: Sun, 06 Jul 2003 22:42:11 +0100
Subject: PEP idea. ( removing __slots__ )
In-Reply-To: <m3smpjo4cd.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
References: <3f073594$1_2@news1.vip.uk.com> <be8hr1$8eh$06$1@news.t-online.com> <3f083043$1_3@news1.vip.uk.com> <m3wuev20jt.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <3f085fa7_3@news1.vip.uk.com> <m3smpjo4cd.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <3f08984c$1_3@news1.vip.uk.com>

> No. Some classes have slots for efficiency, and their subclasses have
> dictionaries for generality.
> 
> Likewise, some classes have slots to save the dictionary for most
> instances, but some instances may need additional attributes, in which
> case Python creates the dictionary on-the-fly.

I know subclasses can add a __dict__, but i really thought a class with 
__slots__ could not have a __dict__, doesn't the script below show this 
behavior?


PythonWin 2.3b2 (#43, Jun 29 2003, 16:43:04) [MSC v.1200 32 bit (Intel)] 
on win32.
Portions Copyright 1994-2001 Mark Hammond (mhammond at skippinet.com.au) - 
see 'Help/About PythonWin' for further copyright information.
 >>> class A(object):
... 	__slots__=['a']
... 	
 >>> b=A()
 >>> b
<__main__.A object at 0x00EFABF0>
 >>> b.__dict__
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<interactive input>", line 1, in ?
AttributeError: 'A' object has no attribute '__dict__'
 >>> b.a
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<interactive input>", line 1, in ?
AttributeError: a
 >>> b.a=1
 >>> b.a
1
 >>> b.b=1
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<interactive input>", line 1, in ?
AttributeError: 'A' object has no attribute 'b'
 >>>




From mcfletch at rogers.com  Sat Jul 19 18:36:23 2003
From: mcfletch at rogers.com (Mike C. Fletcher)
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 18:36:23 -0400
Subject: properties + types, implementing meta-class desciptors elegantly?
In-Reply-To: <bfc82v$hm8$0@216.39.172.122>
References: <mailman.1058532630.7342.python-list@python.org> <bfa97g$s5j$0@216.39.172.122> <2259b0e2.0307190640.56266017@posting.google.com> <mailman.1058629890.30475.python-list@python.org> <bfc82v$hm8$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <3F19C7E7.8000602@rogers.com>

Okay, rather than respond to the fragments first, which just seems to be 
confusing people, as they aren't getting the previous discussion.  
Here's a quick sketch of what I'm creating:

class Meta( type ):
    tableName = common.StringProperty(
       "tableName", """The table in which this class stores it's primary 
data""",
       defaultValue = "",
    )
    implementationBase = common.ClassByNameProperty(
       "implementation", """Base class for implementation""",
        defaultValue = "wxpytable.dbresultset.DBResultSet",
       setDefaultOnGet = 0,
    )
    ...

Now, those objects from "common" are part of a fairly involved hierarchy 
of descriptor classes which provide type coercion, default-value 
retrieval, automated lookup of factory functions, managed list-of-type 
support, and a dozen other features.  Here's the framework of what a 
"basicproperty" does:

    * hooks the __set__ event (and __get__ and __delete__)
          o is thereby a descriptor
          o can be introspected from the object with the properties
                + has documentation
                + has meta-data for coercion, type-checking, default
                  values, operations for choosing common values,
                  etceteras, etceteras
                + can be readily sub-classed to produce new effects,
                  such as using weak references or storing values in a
                  database based on schema objects, or calling methods
                  on a client...
    * checks the data type of the value
          o if necessary, coerces the value (normally defering to the
            "baseType" for the property)
    * finally, stores the value
          o tries to do what would have been done if there were no
            descriptor (with the new, coerced value)
          o does *not* create new names in the object's namespace (all
            names are documented w/ descriptors, there's not a lot of
            '_' prefixed names cluttering the namespace)
          o does *not* require a new dictionary/storage-object attribute
            for the object (the descriptor works like any other
            descriptor, a *stand-alone* object that replaces a regular
            attribute)

It's that last part that I'd like to have a function/method to 
accomplish.  That is, store (and obviously retrieve as well) attribute 
values for objects, instances, types, classes, __slot__'d instances, 
etceteras under a given name without triggering any of the __setattr__ 
machinery which defers to the __set__ method of the associated descriptor.

I can work around the problem by violating either of those two bullet 
points under "finally, stores the value", but I'm looking for something 
that *doesn't* violate them.  See below for responses to particular 
points...

Bengt Richter wrote:
...

>                 client.__dict__['v'] = value
>the above line should work for this example, so it must be different from
>what you were doing before? Perhaps the client object before was a class?
>I guess I'm not getting the big picture yet of your design intent.
>
That's what the base properties do, but they just can't work when doing 
a meta-class, as it's __dict__ is a dict-proxy, which doesn't allow 
assignment.  I'm looking for a method to tell the Python system "Okay, 
what would you have done if there were no descriptors? Here's the key 
and value to set, go set them."  That sample was just to demonstrate why 
calling object.__setattr__ wouldn't work (it recursively calls the 
descriptor).

>Are you trying to make a  base class that has properties that can
>set same-named properties in the subclass via attributes
>of objects instantiated from the subclass? Or as attributes of the
>subclass? Do you need the property ability to munge its arguments dynamically?
>Otherwise a plain old attribute assignment to the subclass per se should install
>the property for its instances, no?
>  
>
Nope, I'm trying to make meta-classes which have rich properties.  The 
particular project is a plug-in system, where the classes (the 
metaclass-instances) want to have all sorts of rich metadata associated 
with them in a way which meshes with the rest of the system (i.e. using 
a descriptor-based introspection mechanism).
...

Enjoy,
Mike
_______________________________________

  Mike C. Fletcher
  Designer, VR Plumber, Coder
  http://members.rogers.com/mcfletch/







From cjw at sympatico.ca  Wed Jul 16 15:31:53 2003
From: cjw at sympatico.ca (Colin J. Williams)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 15:31:53 -0400
Subject: Numarray for Python 2.3
In-Reply-To: <gqqahv09j8n5cr9e42v4pk74temcomdjul@4ax.com>
References: <gqqahv09j8n5cr9e42v4pk74temcomdjul@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3F15A829.9090200@sympatico.ca>

Tim Rowe wrote:

> Does numarray-0.5.win32-py2.2.exe work with Python 2.3?  If not, is
> there a version that will?
> 
> Tia,
> 
> Tim
No, not the last time I tried.  It seems that Python 2.3 looks for a
different .dll structure than python 2.2.

Below is an extract from a recent posting by Perry Greefield to the
PySci list which sets out current development intentions for
numarray.

I have copied your question, with this response, to Perry Greenfield.

Colin W.

From: "Perry Greenfield" <perry at stsci.edu>
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 19:45:52 -0400
[Eric Jones]
 >>
 >> Numarray will be the successor to Numeric.  I talked with Perry
 >> Greenfield from STSci at OSCON last week.  STSci is developing
 >> numarray.
 >>
 >> He said that pretty much the only things left before numarray is a
 >> "feature complete" replacement for Numeric are PyObject array support
 >> and Paul Dubois Masked Array (MA) classes.  He wants a full
 >> replacement before releasing 1.0.
 >>
 >> I'll let him pronounce the official release dates, but it is
 >> not so far off.
 >>

No dates fixed in stone, but here is the basic plan

0.6 to be released this week, this reorganizes numarray as a package

0.7 (few weeks?) Will include PyObject support

0.8 (2 months?) Will include MA support. At this point we hope to 
replicate all Numeric functionality (other than the planned changes).

v1.0 will come out when 0.8 has been tested by users for a little while
(with perhaps a 0.9 if many changes and fixes are needed)

[Eric Jones]
 >> Numarray and Numeric will co-exist for a long while.  Numarray is new
 >> and therefore less well tested.  It also has slower performance for
 >> small arrays by about a factor of 3, but is faster for large arrays.
 >> There are also many packages that rely on Numeric out in the wild, 
 >> >> and the transition will be slow.
 >>

There may be some rough corners where performance of numarray needs
optimization that haven't yet been handled (e.g. printing? slicing?)



Perry Greenfield







From walter at livinglogic.de  Wed Jul  9 17:11:56 2003
From: walter at livinglogic.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Walter_D=F6rwald?=)
Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 23:11:56 +0200
Subject: Deleting specific characters from a string
In-Reply-To: <begfb3$7j6$1@online.de>
References: <begfb3$7j6$1@online.de>
Message-ID: <3F0C851C.4000500@livinglogic.de>

Behrang Dadsetan wrote:

> Hi all,
> 
> I would like deleting specific characters from a string.
> As an example, I would like to delete all of the '@' '&' in the string 
> 'You are ben at orange?enter&your&code' so that it becomes 
> 'benorange?enteryourcode'.
> 
> So far I have been doing it like:
> str = 'You are ben at orange?enter&your&code'
> str = ''.join([ c for c in str if c not in ('@', '&')])
> 
> but that looks so ugly.. I am hoping to see nicer examples to acheive 
> the above..

What about the following:

str = 'You are ben at orange?enter&your&code'
str = filter(lambda c: c not in "@&", str)

Bye,
    Walter D?rwald





From mis6 at pitt.edu  Wed Jul 30 07:41:29 2003
From: mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato)
Date: 30 Jul 2003 04:41:29 -0700
Subject: feature request: a better str.endswith
References: <2259b0e2.0307180401.5dae02f2@posting.google.com> <2259b0e2.0307290940.49ff417d@posting.google.com> <45228044.0307291352.696b16aa@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <2259b0e2.0307300341.67aee0fa@posting.google.com>

chrisperkins37 at hotmail.com (Chris Perkins) wrote in message news:<45228044.0307291352.696b16aa at posting.google.com>...
> mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato) wrote in message news:<2259b0e2.0307290940.49ff417d at posting.google.com>...
> > I have posted a recipe with the itertools solution suggested in this
> > thread:
> > 
> > http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/212959
> > 
> 
> That's great, but your recipe contains a very serious error - you
> spelled my name wrong ;)
> 
> Chris Perkins (not Perking)

Oops! It was a typo, I am going to correct it immediately!

 Michele



From lorenb2 at bezeqint.net  Sun Jul 20 17:28:38 2003
From: lorenb2 at bezeqint.net (Bobbie)
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 23:28:38 +0200
Subject: httplib\urllib attributes problem
References: <mailman.1058768851.9542.python-list@python.org> <oprsng7vhi5ctagx@shawnews> <oprsnhddis5ctagx@shawnews>
Message-ID: <005201c34f05$e273da60$6700a8c0@inet43>

thanks.
question:  why can't I just totally erase that "self.addheaders = " line  ?

B.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jordan Krushen" <jordan at krushen.com>
Newsgroups: comp.lang.python
To: <python-list at python.org>
Sent: Monday, July 21, 2003 9:48 AM
Subject: Re: httplib\urllib attributes problem


> On Mon, 21 Jul 2003 07:45:19 GMT, Jordan Krushen <jordan at krushen.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> > At least for this one, here's the relevant code from urllib2.py:
> >
> > class OpenerDirector:
> > def __init__(self):
> > server_version = "Python-urllib/%s" % __version__
> > self.addheaders = [('User-agent', server_version)]
> >
> > You should be able to override your opener's addheaders attribute 
> > (untested):
> >
> > opener.addheaders = None
> 
> Actually, it's late.  Use this instead:
> 
> opener.addheaders = []
> 
> This won't break if something else tries to append to the list.
> 
> J.
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 





From drs at ecp.cc  Wed Jul  9 03:51:35 2003
From: drs at ecp.cc (drs)
Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 07:51:35 GMT
Subject: dcom & Bad File Descriptor error
Message-ID: <bQPOa.14301$BM.4553736@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com>

I am periodically getting a Bad File Descriptor error from Python DCOM
servers.  I have seen a number of posts regarding this error and threads,
but these are not multithreaded servers.  Further, if i register the servers
with the --debug flag, the errors go away, so I am not able to find out much
in the way of information.

Has anyone else seen this? Any suggestions?

Python 2.0/2.1/2.2 on win2k pro/server

Thanks,

-doug





From bokr at oz.net  Thu Jul 17 13:47:33 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 17 Jul 2003 17:47:33 GMT
Subject: Accessing and updating global variables among several modules
References: <a12f6af8.0307111938.4d7a9851@posting.google.com> <bepqje$8cm$0@216.39.172.122> <a12f6af8.0307170428.5648ffcc@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bf6nfl$25h$0@216.39.172.122>

On 17 Jul 2003 05:28:49 -0700, fumingw at tom.com (Fuming Wang) wrote:
[...]
>
>Hi,
>
>Thanks for the replies.  I have actually found a solution to the
>problem. The problem is caused by Python creating two copies of the
>module that is passed to the interpreter. Here is a short report of
>what the problem is and how to avoid it.  Hope this can be of help for
>others.
>
>Fuming
>
>P.S. I am running Python 2.3 b2 on Windows2000
>
[...
    Very nice and clear exposition and demonstration of
    an importing gotcha and how to avoid it.
...]

Thank you for writing that up so well. I am sure it will be of help.

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From skywalkerpackage at hotmail.com  Wed Jul 16 07:31:22 2003
From: skywalkerpackage at hotmail.com (Johannes Eble)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 11:31:22 GMT
Subject: Q: simple sockets, bind, and socket error 10048
Message-ID: <3f1532e3.3717465@news.online.de>

Hello Python community,

I am trying the echo-client and echo-server examples in Chapter 10,
"Programming Python" by Mark Lutz.
It is probably the most simple sockets sample: A socket server just
echoing the socket clients' requests.

The program works so far. I first start the server in one dos box,
then the client in another dos box on my machine.

However, I wonder why the client always gets a new port. This is
printed in the server's dos box:

g:\WingIDE\profiles\Johannes Eble\sock>python echo-server.py
Server connected by ('127.0.0.1', 1048)
Server connected by ('127.0.0.1', 1049)
Server connected by ('127.0.0.1', 1050)
Server connected by ('127.0.0.1', 1056)
Server connected by ('127.0.0.1', 1057)
Server connected by ('127.0.0.1', 1058)

Note that I start a client one by one (in the same client's dos box).
It seems that the older port numbers can't be used anymore even if the
client is closing the connection and terminating.

I have tried to bind the client to port 4000. I can start the client
one time without an error. But the second time I get a socket error:

g:\WingIDE\profiles\Johannes Eble\sock>python echo-client.py
Client has socket address '127.0.0.1' 4000
Client received: 'Echo=>Hello network world'

g:\WingIDE\profiles\Johannes Eble\sock>python echo-client.py
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "echo-client.py", line 18, in ?
    sockobj.connect((serverHost, serverPort))
  File "<string>", line 1, in connect
socket.error: (10048, 'Address already in use')


I do not understand why the port is still in use. Why can't I define a
constant socket address for my client? Doesn't Python release the
client's port address as soon as the client calls close() on its
socket object or, at latest, when the client process terminates? I
have tried a

sockobj.shutdown(2)

on the client (before close() ) without an effect.


Any help would be great.


Regards


Johannes








From sismex01 at hebmex.com  Tue Jul 29 11:44:55 2003
From: sismex01 at hebmex.com (sismex01 at hebmex.com)
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 10:44:55 -0500
Subject: variable assignment in "while" loop
Message-ID: <F7DB8D13DB61D511B6FF00B0D0F062330592C8E3@mail.hebmex.com>

> From: Andy Todd [mailto:andy47 at halfcooked.com] 
> Sent: Martes, 29 de Julio de 2003 10:23 a.m.
> 
> Spot on, with one (minor) correction. With a for loop you have to 
> iterate over the results of a call to a method on the cursor, e.g.;
> 
> for info in mydbcursor.fetchall():
>      print "Information:", info
> 
> You could replace fetchall() with fetchmany() or, if you are feeling 
> contrary, fetchone() ;-)
> 
> Regards,
> Andy
>

Are you sure about this?  Because, if you have to iterate
through .fetchall()  (for example), then the cursor isn't
actually an iterable object, the result of fetchall() is
(it's a list, which is iterable), same goes for fetchmany();
BUT, if you iterate over the results of fetchone() then
you're gonna do a columnwise iteration over a single row.

:-)

So... anyone... do cursors have an __iter__() method?
I don't have a DB module at hand to check it out...

-gustavo



Advertencia:La informacion contenida en este mensaje es confidencial y
restringida, por lo tanto esta destinada unicamente para el uso de la
persona arriba indicada, se le notifica que esta prohibida la difusion de
este mensaje. Si ha recibido este mensaje por error, o si hay problemas en
la transmision, favor de comunicarse con el remitente. Gracias.




From daniel.dittmar at sap.com  Tue Jul 29 12:49:35 2003
From: daniel.dittmar at sap.com (Daniel Dittmar)
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 18:49:35 +0200
Subject: variable assignment in "while" loop
References: <mailman.1059493729.4893.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bg68iv$jmp$1@news1.wdf.sap-ag.de>

sismex01 at hebmex.com wrote:
> Are you sure about this?  Because, if you have to iterate
> through .fetchall()  (for example), then the cursor isn't
> actually an iterable object, the result of fetchall() is

That cursors are iterable belongs to the optional extensions of the DB API
spec so you can't expect that to work for all drivers.

Due to the dynamic nature of Python, it's quite easy to add the methods
.next () and .__iter__ () at runtime to the cursor class (if the driver is
written in Python and not an extension).

Daniel






From mis6 at pitt.edu  Wed Jul 16 20:20:52 2003
From: mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato)
Date: 16 Jul 2003 17:20:52 -0700
Subject: [OT] sentances with two meanings
References: <mailman.1058278343.23104.python-list@python.org> <bf167a$pvt$1@panix2.panix.com> <ufzl7rdno.fsf@online.no> <3F142A58.80426AA4@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <2259b0e2.0307161620.4a9353f1@posting.google.com>

Alan Kennedy <alanmk at hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<3F142A58.80426AA4 at hotmail.com>...
> Syver Enstad wrote:
> 
> > > Given the biblical meaning of "known", this could have even more than
> > > two meanings :-)
> > 
> > Does "to know" in english also mean to feel someone? In my own language
> > the direct translation of the english know also means to feel. I could
> > say (translated) "I know the cold", meaning I feel the cold
> > weather.
> 
> To "know" someone, in the biblical sense, is to have "carnal
> knowledge" of them, i.e. "knowledge of the flesh", i.e. to have had
> sexual relations with them.
> 
> Some of the English translations of the bible use terms such as "And
> Adam knew Eve, and Eve begat 2 children", etc, etc. These translations
> are probably from the middle ages, or earlier.


It comes at least from the Latin version and I would not be surprised
if the double sense of "known" was in the Greek version too (any Greek
here?).

Now, Latin had to verbs for "to know": "scire" and "cognoscere". 
Only  the second one had the sexual double meaning. The double meaning
has been preserved in modern latin languages:

Italian -> conoscere
French -> connaitre
Spanish -> conocer

The other verb "scire" has generated (if I am not mistaken) "sapere",
savoir", "saber"  and of course "science", which are sexually clean,
at least as
far as I know ;)


P.S. according to http://www.freedict.com/cgi-bin/onldict.cgi

scio -> to know, understand.
cognosco -> to examine, inquire, learn



From klapotec at chello.at  Tue Jul 29 11:00:44 2003
From: klapotec at chello.at (Christopher Koppler)
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 15:00:44 GMT
Subject: Defining/declaring constants in Python
References: <f2800d70.0307280949.75e5faf0@posting.google.com> <hsoaivktfup2to34ubrmv0rt4kf1sfe469@4ax.com> <7h3fzkpk0lv.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <fh2divkuuqe11fgjr320bpjp4aoon3tdes@4ax.com>

On Tue, 29 Jul 2003 11:56:54 GMT, Michael Hudson <mwh at python.net>
wrote:

>Christopher Koppler <klapotec at chello.at> writes:
>
>> If you really, really, REALLY want a varia^Wconstant that cannot be
>> changed, no matter how hard you try, in Python, have a look at this:
>> http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/65207
>
>Of course, it's still possbile to change the values of these
>'constants', you just have to muck about quite a bit to manage it.

Oops. Yeah, should have written: constant that cannot be changed,
unless you're prepared to do some very heavy lifting ;-) 


--Christopher



From Robert at AbilitySys.com  Mon Jul 14 22:28:56 2003
From: Robert at AbilitySys.com (Robert at AbilitySys.com)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 19:28:56 -0700
Subject: Stop Python from exiting upon error in Windows
References: <vh6jmv2f767h8b@corp.supernews.com> <n2o6hvcahk7dlmn9t26tvis8umnfg1tdeo@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <vh6pn8l4jlde1c@corp.supernews.com>

Can you nest exceptions? I already have a few legitimate try/except blocks
where I know there's a chance the act could go bad, do I just stick a try:
at the beginning of the whole body of code and an except: at the end?

- Robert

"Tom Plunket" <tomas at fancy.org> wrote in message
news:n2o6hvcahk7dlmn9t26tvis8umnfg1tdeo at 4ax.com...
> Robert wrote:
>
> > How can I stop the Python interpreter from exiting when an error occurs?
>
> create a batchfile, tell Windows that the association of Python
> files is to that batch file, and put this in the file:
>
> python.exe %1
> pause
>
>
> Or- catch the error in your mainline, and do a sys.raw_input()
> call on exception.
>
> -tom!





From owski at hotmail.com  Wed Jul 16 20:03:38 2003
From: owski at hotmail.com (Adam Ruth)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 00:03:38 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: anything like C++ references?
References: <mailman.1058377226.21359.python-list@python.org>  
	<20030716130631003-0600@news.xmission.com>  
	<8sdbhvk5b5ia2onmbca4ajkaidpu3ht9ed@4ax.com> 
	<20030716160013839-0600@news.xmission.com> 
	<jkjbhvg9hcvi937ief7f1copskmogpfbmj@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <20030716180329385-0600@news.xmission.com>

In <jkjbhvg9hcvi937ief7f1copskmogpfbmj at 4ax.com> Stephen Horne  wrote:
> On Wed, 16 Jul 2003 22:00:22 +0000 (UTC), Adam Ruth
> <owski at hotmail.com> wrote:
> 
>>In <8sdbhvk5b5ia2onmbca4ajkaidpu3ht9ed at 4ax.com> Stephen Horne  wrote:
>>> On Wed, 16 Jul 2003 19:06:40 +0000 (UTC), Adam Ruth
>>> <owski at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>>You are correct in that there are times when pointer semantics would 
>>>>be  somewhat useful, but they're never necessary.  His statement was 
>>>>that  there are time that "you really can't avoid pointers".
>>> 
>>> Hmmm - those words were in a context. I never claimed that "you 
>>> really can't avoid pointers" in *current* Python - that's obviously 
>>> not true. But if the copy-on-write stuff were implemented, the need 
>>> would arise. For example...
>>
>>It sure seemed that way to me:
>>
>><prior dicussion>
>>>>They're an unhappy necessity, akin to stop-lights.  You need them
>>>>because roads intersect, but if roads don't intersect, don't use 
>>>>them!
>>>
>>>Absolutely true. And the worst thing you can do when you really can't
>>>avoid pointers is to obscure the issue even more by disguising them 
>>>as something else.
>></prior discussion>
> 
> Right - "the worst thing you can do when you really can't avoid
> pointers" is not the same as "really can't avoid pointers".
> 
> You have taken the condition out of a conditional scentence and quoted
> it as if it were a statement. That's a pretty clear case of quoting
> out of context to misrepresent what someone said, isn't it.
> 
> Now lets restore the rest of what Adam said...
> 
>: I came to Python from Ada, and all I have to say is:  Pointer-like
>: semantics are evil.  They're worse than goto's, they're deadly,
>: damaging, and should be avoided at all costs.
>: 
>: They're an unhappy necessity, akin to stop-lights.  You need them
>: because roads intersect, but if roads don't intersect, don't use them!
> 
> Guess what - when Adam said pointers are an 'unhappy necessity' he was
> talking about ADA - NOT PYTHON. In Ada, pointers (or rather access
> types) are definitely not overused (where I worked you needed
> management permission and a damned good reason to use them due to the
> military contract terms), but sometimes they are unavoidable.
> 
> 
> Please be more careful what you snip.

Actually, no, I wasn't talking about Ada.  I was talking in general and 
about Pythyon.  In languages with pointers, they are there to overcome a 
weakness (the roads intersecting).  But where the roads don't intersect (
Python) there's no need to use them (or their semantics, as the case may 
be).  

So your response about diguising pointers as something else seemed to me 
to be referring to Python, since the prior message was about disguising 
a pointer as a mutable list in Pythyon.

Anyway, glad we cleared that up.  Sorry about misrepresenting you, I 
really thought you were talking about Python.  In retrospect, my 
metaphor wasn't very clear.

> 
>>The reference is passed by value 
>>to the function, just as you describe it should.
> 
> Yes - there has to be pass-by-value at some level since Python is
> implemented in C. But to me this just says that we are seeing the
> side-effect of an implementation detail.

I don't see it as a side effect, I see it as the core design.  
References are a very concrete type, they happen to be implemented as 
pointers in C.  In Java they're not implemented as pointers, I'm not 
sure what they're implemented with, but it isn't pointers.  In that case 
it must pass by reference (ala Java), but the semantics in Python of 
passing references by value is maintained.

> 
> No need to argue this - you don't need to explain it to me because I
> understand. It just see things from a different perspective.
> 
>   Python, however, has a 
>>futher layer of abstraction on top of its one data type, and that's 
>>objects.  I would venture that it's the extra layer of abstraction 
>>that  makes Python work in a more intuitive, proper way.  This is, 
>>however, just my opinion.  But it does seem that new  programmers who 
>>learn this abstraction find it natural and simple.  It's  people 
>>coming from C, et al., that seem thrown off by it.
> 
> No, my background isn't just in C - that is a long way from being the
> first language I used, and I've used Python regularly longer than C++.

I wasn't referring to you, but to the people that come to the newsgroup 
and ask questions about it.  I still don't really understand what it is 
that bugs you about it, but that's more on my end.

> 
>>As a side note, based on your description of your eduction and studies 
>>in an earlier post, I realize now how different our backgrounds seem 
>>to  be.  I'm coming from a world where the focus is engineering (Ada 
>>is the  only language purpose-built for engineering, AFAIK).  You seem 
>>to come  from a background more focused on science and theory.
> 
> Nope - I just happen to be interested in learning the theory too, and
> particularly in experiencing a broad range of languages to understand
> the ideas behind them.
> 
> How come you didn't notice ada in my list?

It's such a small word :).  I'm sure I did, but wasn't thinking in this 
context then, so I didn't INCREF the information and it got garbage 
collected.

> 
> About the first half of my programming career was working in the
> defence industry as a software engineer. A lot of that was working at
> very low level stuff (the 80c196kc microcontrollers I mentioned) and
> with a lot of messing around with target hardware and in-circuit
> emulators. The rest of my time in defence was spent using Ada.
> 
> I first messed around with writing my own language quite young, with
> an Atari ST. I liked the idea of text adventures and decided to write
> one, but basically got caught up in the engine and the scripting
> stuff. Pretty cool, though, through the rose-tinted glasses of memory.
> 
> Anyway, I stayed interested in compilers and stuff, but the reason I
> got interested in LR and parsing theory has little to do with parsing
> as most see it. A grammar, seen as describing a sequence of tokens,
> can deal with many things - the tokens don't have to be words. They
> might be events, for instance. And the state of the 'parser' may be
> used to select a response strategy in an AI. I wanted it for a game I
> was going to write a few years back which would construct strategies
> from various elements by building them into a kind of grammar, and use
> the resulting state model as a real time AI.
> 
>>Perhaps this is 
>>the cause of our different world views (on this issue).  Just a 
>>thought,  though it is interesting we both chose Python.
> 
> Strictly speaking, the reason I chose Python at the time was because
> at work we used macs with terminal emulators. If you wanted a utility,
> you either wrote it under VMS or you were stuffed as mac interpreters
> and compilers were hard to come by.
> 
> I see it as one of the happiest flukes - I just wish I'd found Python
> earlier.

Interesting.  I chose it mainly because I was experimenting with 
Smalltalk to learn dynamic programming, and it seemed a more practical 
language (I never got used to the whole image thing in Smalltalk).  One 
of the things that I really liked about both languages is how they 
handled references.  Perhaps that's why I'm so vehement about this whole 
topic.  Well, that and too much caffeine.

Adam Ruth



From imbosol at aerojockey.com  Tue Jul 29 20:17:54 2003
From: imbosol at aerojockey.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 00:17:54 GMT
Subject: metaclasses
References: <pan.2003.07.28.22.25.25.311058@webone.com.au> <udCVa.117$7h6.14@nwrdny03.gnilink.net>
Message-ID: <S8EVa.501$7h6.298@nwrdny03.gnilink.net>

Raymond Hettinger wrote:
>> It seems this is a more general way to build classes than inheritance.
>> Is this a reasonable viewpoint?
>>
>> >>>
>> >>> def meth1(self):
>> ...   print "i am meth1"
>> ...
>> >>> def meth2(self):
>> ...   print "i am meth2"
>> ...
>> >>> Foo = type("Foo",(),{'meth':meth1}) # make a class
>> >>> foo = Foo() # make an instance
>> >>> foo.meth() # call a method
>> i am meth1
>  
> It is a less general way for building classes.

Actually, the question doesn't make sense.  Metaclasses and
inheritance are two different dimensions of generality.  Neither is
more or less general than the other, because they generalize in
different ways.

However, his use of the built-in metatype 'type' is more general than
the class statement, which seemed to be what he was asking.  One can
supply a list of bases which, unlike the class statement, need not be
a fixed length.  In fact, the bases can be calculated dynamically.
Likewise with the class dict.


-- 
CARL BANKS



From jjl at pobox.com  Mon Jul 21 10:06:59 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 21 Jul 2003 15:06:59 +0100
Subject: Python scripting with Paint Shop Pro 8.0
References: <kl3lhvgh5iillo5g9jvff92qkc8i2022nm@4ax.com> <mailman.1058775152.5377.python-list@python.org> <rajnhv0g0d21okj8uhebsakehgm9i6slvh@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <87k7acq8ho.fsf@pobox.com>

Marc Wilson <marc at cleopatra.co.uk> writes:
[...]
> While I'm sure Python is a lovely language, the choice is due to PSP using
> the scripting engine: if I have to write something from scratch (or even
> from bits'n'bobs), I'll use a language I already know.
[...]

Very wise.  It would take you a whole afternoon to learn Python well
enough to do what you want with PIL <0.2 wink>.

http://effbot.org/zone/pil-imageenhance.htm
http://effbot.org/zone/pil-imagefilter.htm


And I'm sure that afternoon will pay off again.

OK, and another day to get out of the mess your OS (whichever one you
use) will try to get you into with naming conventions, filesystem
paths and other plumbing <0.8 wink>.


John



From bokr at oz.net  Mon Jul  7 20:48:21 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 8 Jul 2003 00:48:21 GMT
Subject: getting a submatrix of all true
References: <mailman.1057173484.29754.python-list@python.org> <be0b84$89a$0@216.39.172.122> <52fe159d.0307041016.4dcb4a5c@posting.google.com> <mailman.1057593794.2369.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bed4cl$99e$0@216.39.172.122>

On Mon, 07 Jul 2003 11:00:11 -0500, John Hunter <jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu> wrote:

>>>>>> "Jon" == Jon  <wright at esrf.fr> writes:
>
>    Jon> Sadly I can only give you a method which is certainly not
>    Jon> optimal, but at least finds something which is probably not
>    Jon> too bad, and fairly quickly. Uses the Numeric module to speed
>    Jon> up, so that a few thousand by a few hundred is quickly
>    Jon> computable. I'm curious to know if it does much better or
>    Jon> worse than other algorithms.
>
>Hi Jon, thanks for the suggestion.  For my data set, your solution
>performed a little better size-wise than my poor man's approach, which
>I gave in the original post.  And it is certainly fast enough.  I
>liked your idea of zero-ing out the elements when you made a decision
>to delete a row or column.  When I was thinking about solutions using
>Numeric, I kept running up against the problem of deleting a row or
>column (which entails a whole array copy so is expensive).
>
>If anyone wants to try their algorithm on "real world data" which,
>unlike the ones discussed here, have lots of correlation between
>missing rows and columns that might be exploited, I have uploaded the
>missing data matrix to a web server.  It can be loaded with:
>
>  from urllib import urlopen
>  url = 'http://nitace.bsd.uchicago.edu:8080/summer/jdh/missing.dat'
>  L = [ [ int(val) for val in line.split()] 
>        for line in urlopen(url).readlines()]
>  # L is 1072x83
>
The statistics on this data is interesting, referring to counts of 1's:
(not very tested)

[15:31] C:\pywk\clp\submx>python showmx.py -f missing.dat -counts
nr=1072, nc=83
totcc=6239, totrc=6239 => *100./(83*1072) => 7.01
count:freq -- cols with count ones occurred freq times
   0:16      1:4       8:3      14:2      16:4      20:4      21:3      23:1
  25:6      27:1      28:7      32:4      41:1      59:1      60:3      62:3
  65:1      95:2      96:1     108:3     125:1     134:1     158:1     177:1
 199:1     206:2     237:1     241:1     252:1     254:1    1061:2
count:freq -- rows with count ones occurred freq times
   0:3       1:2       2:460     3:67      4:140     5:66      6:42      7:49
   8:61      9:17     10:46     11:23     12:8      13:8      14:12     15:10
  16:3      17:5      18:1      19:7      20:4      21:2      22:5      23:1
  27:2      28:2      30:2      31:1      33:1      34:1      36:2      38:1
  40:1      41:1      44:4      45:7      48:1      55:2      56:2

And sorted per descending frequency of number of cols and rows with particular counts:

[15:31] C:\pywk\clp\submx>python showmx.py -f missing.dat -counts -freq
nr=1072, nc=83
totcc=6239, totrc=6239 => *100./(83*1072) => 7.01
freq:count -- cols with count ones occurred freq times
  16:0       7:28      6:25      4:32      4:20      4:16      4:1       3:108
   3:62      3:60      3:21      3:8       2:1061    2:206     2:95      2:14
   1:254     1:252     1:241     1:237     1:199     1:177     1:158     1:134
   1:125     1:96      1:65      1:59      1:41      1:27      1:23
freq:count -- rows with count ones occurred freq times
 460:2     140:4      67:3      66:5      61:8      49:7      46:10     42:6
  23:11     17:9      12:14     10:15      8:13      8:12      7:45      7:19
   5:22      5:17      4:44      4:20      3:16      3:0       2:56      2:55
   2:36      2:30      2:28      2:27      2:21      2:1       1:48      1:41
   1:40      1:38      1:34      1:33      1:31      1:23      1:18

There are two columns with 1061 ones out of a possible 1072, so they account for 2
in most of the row counts. Hence the most popular row count (2) mostly goes to 0.
Interestingly, 4(2) is 'way more popular than 3(1). This doesn't look like what
I'd expect from uniform overall probability of some percentage. Discounting the
 stuck columns,  no ones shouldn't be more likely than one one, since there's only
one way to get all zeroes, but there's then 81 equally probable ways to get one one.

Look at a uniform 5% on 1072 x 83 (twice to show variation).
There's a distribution with tails, centered on 5% of 1072 and 83 it seems:

[17:48] C:\pywk\clp\submx>showmx.py 1072 83 5      -counts
nr=1072, nc=83
totcc=4338, totrc=4338 => *100./(83*1072) => 4.88
count:freq -- cols with count ones occurred freq times
  35:1      39:1      40:2      41:1      42:5      43:1      45:5      46:3
  47:2      48:6      49:3      50:5      51:5      52:5      53:5      54:5
  55:5      56:5      58:3      59:4      61:1      62:2      63:1      64:1
  65:3      70:1      78:2
count:freq -- rows with count ones occurred freq times
   0:21      1:74      2:134     3:219     4:218     5:176     6:113     7:64
   8:29      9:15     10:6      11:2      12:1

[17:48] C:\pywk\clp\submx>showmx.py 1072 83 5      -counts
nr=1072, nc=83
totcc=4394, totrc=4394 => *100./(83*1072) => 4.94
count:freq -- cols with count ones occurred freq times
  37:1      40:1      41:3      43:1      44:2      45:2      46:5      47:5
  48:1      49:3      50:6      51:8      52:7      53:7      54:3      55:3
  56:4      57:3      58:3      59:1      60:1      61:1      62:1      63:1
  64:3      65:2      68:2      69:1      70:1      72:1
count:freq -- rows with count ones occurred freq times
   0:19      1:58      2:150     3:218     4:218     5:173     6:111     7:63
   8:38      9:13     10:5      11:5      12:1


>I think I may adapt your algorithm to terminate when the percent
>missing falls below some threshold, removing the requirement that
>*all* missing values be removed.  This will drop the worst offenders
>observation or variable wise.  Then I can use a regression approach to
>fill in the remaining ones.
>
>    Jon> Interesting problem!
Yes. So many, so little time ... ;-/

>
>I agree.  There are lots of extensions to the original formulation
>that are relevant to the missing value problem.  As we have seen in
>the posts here, there are good exact solutions for smallish matrices,
>but for larger ones a statistical approach is required.  The right
>statistical solution surely depends on the correlation structure of
>the matrix.
I'm pretty sure there are better exact algorithms than the brute force
one I first posted, but I haven't done a new one since, just some little
things to show things about the data, as above.
>
>Also, it would be nice to generalize to higher dimensions (eg 3D
>matrices).  For my problem, I have N observations of M variables over
>D days.  So this is the 3D version of the 2D problem above.  Your
>solution is readily adaptable to this case.  More generally, you might
>want to impose extra requirements, like, no days can be dropped, or at
>most 10% of the days can be dropped, or if you want to compute changes
>in variables over days, that no days can be dropped.   
>
I'm wondering if you might not have other considerations about which
data points to drop too. E.g., if an observation makes the difference
between being able to invert a matrix or not, you might opt to drop
several other things instead, even though in terms of count the set
would be less optimum. (Curiousness: what do your observations represent?)

>The more general formulation is something like
>
>  Given an N-D (N0, M0, P0, ...) boolean matrix X with a covariance
>  matrix C, what is the largest submatrix of X of dimensions (N1, M1,
>  P1, ...) such that the fraction of remaining dimensions satisfies
>
>    (N1/N0, M1/M0, P1/P0, ...) >= (alpha, beta, gamma, ..)  
>
>  and the total percent true <= p.
>
>The original problem is a special case of this where alpha=0, beta=0,
>p=0 and C unspecified.
>
>Anyone looking for a dissertation project :-) ?
>
>John Hunter
>

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From hwlgw at hotmail.com  Mon Jul 21 05:31:13 2003
From: hwlgw at hotmail.com (Will Stuyvesant)
Date: 21 Jul 2003 02:31:13 -0700
Subject: How to save web pages for offline reading?
Message-ID: <cb035744.0307210131.5cfbc890@posting.google.com>

I am trying to download pages from Python, for offline reading.  This
to save telephone costs :-)

If a page contains something like
<link rel='stylesheet' href='../pythonware.css' type='text/css' />
and I use fp=urllib.urlopen(...) and then fp.read(), I get the HTML
but not the CSS.  As a result the page looks bad when reading offline.
 How to solve this?  Also the .GIF's in a page would be nice, but this
is less important and also would take more time to download.



From intentionally at blank.co.uk  Wed Jul 16 17:16:24 2003
From: intentionally at blank.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 22:16:24 +0100
Subject: anything like C++ references?
References: <mailman.1058377226.21359.python-list@python.org> <20030716130631003-0600@news.xmission.com>
Message-ID: <8sdbhvk5b5ia2onmbca4ajkaidpu3ht9ed@4ax.com>

On Wed, 16 Jul 2003 19:06:40 +0000 (UTC), Adam Ruth
<owski at hotmail.com> wrote:

>In <mailman.1058377226.21359.python-list at python.org> Michael Chermside  
>wrote:

>> Look, first of all, let me say that I disagree with Stephen Horne in
>> this discussion. Or, to be more precise, I think that the approach he
>> is using is not one which is useful in describing Python. HOWEVER,
>> that doesn't mean that there's NOTHING to what he is saying, and your
>> claim that there is no situation requiring "pointers" in Python seems
>> wrong to me.

Thankyou - nice to know I'm not *completely* insane ;-)

>You are correct in that there are times when pointer semantics would be 
>somewhat useful, but they're never necessary.  His statement was that 
>there are time that "you really can't avoid pointers".

Hmmm - those words were in a context. I never claimed that "you really
can't avoid pointers" in *current* Python - that's obviously not true.
But if the copy-on-write stuff were implemented, the need would arise.
For example...

>>> class c :
...   x = 0
...
>>> k = c()
>>> def fn(a) :
...   a.x=1
...
>>> fn(k)
>>> k.x

At the moment, the result is 1. With copy-on-write, object parameters
would behave exactly the same as integer or other immutable
parameters. The result would be 0. You'd need pointers or references
or call-by-reference to do a number of things.

>I definitely went a little overboard, and it sounds like I'm saying, 
>"not only are pointers not necessary, they're never desirable".  My tone 
>was a bit more knee jerk than was prudent.

Then I withdraw certain comments I've made. I really can't complain
about people going "a little overboard", can I ;-)

>This is just as clear as the C++ version, and more clear than the Python 
>version that wraps with the list.
>
>This example, though, doesn't really show the difference, it's too 
>trivial.  All of the versions are clear enough, with the difference 
>being academic. 

I agree with both of these comments.

>I would be interested in seeing a more complex example where something 
>would be substantially cleaner with pointers.  I have to acknowledge the 
>possibility that they exist, I don't know everything... yet :)

I was told today that both Perl and ML have something equivalent to
pointers. I don't know either language, though. Given the current
audience, mentioning Perl may be a mistake - but we could look up the
rationale for including them in ML.

That is something to do with caution, though. I imagine that ML is a
very different language to Python. I have used Haskell and Miranda,
which are at least broadly the same paradigm but may or may not be
quite a similar languages, but even those I never exactly knew well.

The rationales might not be very portable.




From mertz at gnosis.cx  Fri Jul  4 16:00:28 2003
From: mertz at gnosis.cx (Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters)
Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 16:00:28 -0400
Subject: Least used builtins?
References: <b03e80d.0307040620.2158fd41@posting.google.com>
 <ad052e5c.0307040927.4bfdff07@posting.google.com>
 <mailman.1057341968.10073.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <czdB/kKkXkPA092yn@gnosis.cx>         

|> I haven't used: apply, buffer, coerce, globals, intern, iter, locals,
|> oct, slice, super, unichr, unicode.

Sean 'Shaleh' Perry <shalehperry at comcast.net> wrote previously:
|apply isn't as useful as it used to be.
|locals and globals is useful in some interesting ways.
|iter is really new so no surprise you haven't used it yet.
|most people don't play with octal so I doubt oct() gets a lot of mileage.
|The unicode stuff is new and most English only coders don't use it.

I wouldn't mind moving quite a bit of __builtins__ into standard
modules.  Doing that only creates a one-line incompatibility, i.e. you
might need to add:

    from itertools import enumerate

To the top of a module/script.  Some quick thoughts:

    Current builtin     Possible Home
    ---------------     ---------------
    abs                 math
    apply               functional
    basestring          internal
    bool
    buffer
    callable            sys
    chr
    classmethod         new
    cmp
    coerce
    compile             code
    complex             math
    delattr
    dict
    dir
    divmod              math
    enumerate           itertools
    eval                code
    execfile            code
    file
    filter              functional
    float
    getattr
    globals
    hasattr
    hash                internal
    hex                 math
    id                  internal
    input
    int
    intern              internal
    isinstance          sys
    issubclass          sys
    iter
    len
    list
    locals
    long
    map                 functional
    max                 math
    min                 math
    object              internal
    oct                 math
    open
    ord
    pow                 math
    property            new
    range
    raw_input
    reduce              functinal
    reload
    repr
    round               math
    setattr
    slice
    staticmethod        new
    str
    super               internal
    tuple
    type
    unichr
    unicode
    vars
    xrange              itertools
    zip                 itertools

This sort of thing would cleanup the minimal Python interpreter, while
not deeply hiding/removing anything.

Yours, Lulu...

--
mertz@  | The specter of free information is haunting the `Net!  All the
gnosis  | powers of IP- and crypto-tyranny have entered into an unholy
.cx     | alliance...ideas have nothing to lose but their chains.  Unite
        | against "intellectual property" and anti-privacy regimes!
-------------------------------------------------------------------------





From Brian.Inglis at SystematicSw.ab.ca  Tue Jul 22 04:29:14 2003
From: Brian.Inglis at SystematicSw.ab.ca (Brian Inglis)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 08:29:14 GMT
Subject: Collective memory
References: <mailman.1057083728.8224.python-list@python.org> <vg88va53uha8e@corp.supernews.com> <hff5eb.e9h.ln@escape.shannon.net> <3F082031.3010503@netscape.netNOTthisBIT> <bec993c8.0307080602.7d5d132e@posting.google.com> <beeln9$b63$8@bob.news.rcn.net>
Message-ID: <n1tphvg2gtmjsl8j3rehh33ebhqkb91q2d@4ax.com>

On Tue, 08 Jul 03 12:43:14 GMT in alt.folklore.computers,
jmfbahciv at aol.com wrote:

>In article <bec993c8.0307080602.7d5d132e at posting.google.com>,
>   shoppa at trailing-edge.com (Tim Shoppa) wrote:
><snip>
>
>>Remember the Dilbert where PHB complains that his programmers are using
>>way too many semicolons? :-)
>
>All RIGHT!  That's a good PHB.  It was so difficult to distinguish
>between a semicolon and a colon on the listings.

That's a lousy printer operator: the ribbon should have been
flipped end around long before it got to that stage. 
(That's the old equivalent of shaking a laser toner cartridge.) 
You also wouldn't be able to differentiate between commas and
dots, some apostrophes and quotes, maybe bars and bangs, possibly
parens brackets and braces, if you had and used them. 

Thanks. Take care, Brian Inglis 	Calgary, Alberta, Canada
-- 
Brian.Inglis at CSi.com 	(Brian dot Inglis at SystematicSw dot ab dot ca)
    fake address		use address above to reply



From sybrenUSE at YOURthirdtower.imagination.com  Mon Jul 21 13:04:47 2003
From: sybrenUSE at YOURthirdtower.imagination.com (Sybren Stuvel)
Date: 21 Jul 2003 17:04:47 GMT
Subject: How to save web pages for offline reading?
References: <cb035744.0307210131.5cfbc890@posting.google.com> <bfge1v$e6v86$1@ID-63505.news.uni-berlin.de> <cb035744.0307210848.6b1328d1@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <slrnbho797.u9.sybrenUSE@sybren.thirdtower.com>

Will Stuyvesant enlightened us with:
> But it downloads only the HTML, not the .GIFs in it.  There is an -A
> option (from wget --help):

do "man wget" and you'll soon find out that there is an option to
download all required files. Hint:

--page-requisites
	This option causes Wget to download all the files that are necessary
	to properly display a given HTML page.  This includes such things as
	inlined images, sounds, and referenced stylesheets.

Sybren
-- 
The problem with the world is stupidity. Not saying there should be a
capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the
safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself? 



From bokr at oz.net  Fri Jul 11 13:56:48 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 11 Jul 2003 17:56:48 GMT
Subject: Enter parameters into Fortran executable from python cgi script
References: <2c6431ab.0307110634.1bf59a6b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bemtp0$59s$0@216.39.172.122>

On 11 Jul 2003 07:34:51 -0700, lamar_air at hotmail.com (lamar_air) wrote:

>I have a fortran executable which when run from cmd it asks for a
>series of parameters which you enter then hit enter.
>From my python cgi script i want to be able to run the executable. 
>Enter the 4 or 5 parameters needed then end the executable and
>redirect to another web page which will display some results given
>from an output file from the fortran executable.
>
>When the user clicks submit on the form it seems to hang up on the
>interaction between python cgi and fortran exe.  In this example the
>fortran exe only accepts on variable then terminates.
>
>How do i do this correctly?
>testrun3 can be accesed from any dir because it's directory is set in
>the environment variables.
>
>import os
>os.system("testrun3") 
>os.system("Y")
>os.system("exit")

Using p2test.py in the role of testrun3, which I assume expects a "Y" input
and later an "exit" input (we'll talk about whether you need \n later below),
here is an example using os.popen2 to feed input to child via chin.write and
get output via chout.read:

====< p2test.py >===========================
import sys
first_inp = sys.stdin.readline()
print 'first input was:',`first_inp`
print >>sys.stderr, 'Dummy error message'
second_inp = sys.stdin.readline()
print 'second input was:',`second_inp`
1/0 # sure to make exception
============================================

Interactively:

 >>> import os
 >>> chin,chout,cherr = os.popen3(r'python c:\pywk\clp\p2test.py')
 >>> chin.write('Y\nexit\n')
 >>> chin.close()
 >>> print chout.read()
 first input was: 'Y\n'
 second input was: 'exit\n'

 >>> print cherr.read()
 Dummy error message
 Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "c:\pywk\clp\p2test.py", line 7, in ?
     1/0 # sure to make exception
 ZeroDivisionError: integer division or modulo by zero

There can be deadlock situations, which you can read about at

    http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/popen2-flow-control.html

but you don't have a lot of data going to the child process, and you are not
having a continuing interchange with it, so there shouldn't be a problem.
 
As a first attempt, I'd just substitute 'testrun3' for r'python c:\pywk\clp\p2test.py'
in the above and see what you get.

If it doesn't work, you can experiment by removing the \n after the Y and/or the exit,
in case testrun3 is calling some single-character low level input for Y (like getch() in C).

HTH

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From skip at pobox.com  Thu Jul 31 01:04:19 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 00:04:19 -0500
Subject: urlretrieve a file whose name has spaces in it
In-Reply-To: <5a4226f0.0307301631.3dd0c00f@posting.google.com>
References: <10caf2e2.0307291439.33d9fcc3@posting.google.com>
        <5a4226f0.0307301631.3dd0c00f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <16168.41811.821108.301302@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    Kevin> You can easily escape spaces with "%20" as in:

    Kevin> urllib.urlretrieve("http://website.com/path/string string1
    Kevin> foo.doc".replace(" ", "%20"), "local_file")

Better yet, use url.quote() to make sure all special characters get quoted
in the right way depending on where they are in the URL:

    import urllib
    help(urllib.quote)

Skip




From shane at zope.com  Thu Jul 10 14:01:33 2003
From: shane at zope.com (Shane Hathaway)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 14:01:33 -0400
Subject: Business model for Open Source - advice wanted
In-Reply-To: <246a4e07.0307100613.fc2fc50@posting.google.com>
References: <246a4e07.0307100613.fc2fc50@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3F0DA9FD.40802@zope.com>

Frank Millman wrote:
> I am busy developing an accounting package, using Python and wxPython,
> together with PostgreSQL on a Unix platform or SQL Server on a Windows
> platform. I am a qualified accountant and have been developing
> accounting software, mostly customised, for over 20 years. [...]
> I have been toying with the idea of releasing it
> under an Open Source license.

I agree with Evan: open source has turned out to be a very effective 
model for Zope Corp.  Once your product is popular (partly because it's 
Free), you can sell your expertise in a lot of ways:

- You can sell to different verticals using your open source product as 
a platform.  Every business has different accounting needs, but 
businesses of a certain category tend to be quite similar.  You could 
make packages for real estate, law, medical practices, retail shops, 
etc.  The vertical customizations should be simple enough that it 
doesn't cost you much to create them, but should have enough "meat" that 
it's more cost effective for a business to buy the customized product 
than to re-create it on their own.

- Sell training courses.  You might have two levels of training: one for 
end users and one for larger companies that want to customize your 
product.  Training courses can be a lot of fun, and people are often 
willing to pay quite a bit for a week's worth of expert knowledge.

- When working with small shops with no IT staff, you could consider 
becoming an application service provider, keeping the software running 
smoothly and the data backed up without any intervention by your 
customer.  The recurring income could be enough to sustain the business 
for a long time.

The important thing is to build strong relationships of trust with both 
customers and potential customers, invite people to use your products 
and services, and follow up on commitments.  That's a key to success in 
any business.  Free, open source software gives you an advantage in the 
process of building relationships.  If you cultivate those relationships 
through mailing lists and personal contacts, business opportunities will 
surface in the most unexpected places.

Well, that's how it works for Zope, anyway! ;-)  I think many open 
source businesses struggle primarily because they spend too much time on 
the technology and not enough time connecting with people.  I am 
fortunate to work for a company that has its priorities straight.

Shane





From bkc at Murkworks.com  Thu Jul  3 16:36:58 2003
From: bkc at Murkworks.com (Brad Clements)
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 16:36:58 -0400
Subject: Python on Pocket PC (with graphics)
References: <c007a5d3.0307011629.421145b0@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <be2449$b8c$1@main.gmane.org>

There's nothing pretty yet.

win32gui has been ported, so you can create simple win32 windows apps and
dialogs.

win32ui was not ported.

venster and ctypes looks promising, and should be easy to port.

if wxWindows got ported, you could use it, but I've waited over a year for
"them" to finish wxEmbedded.

--
Novell DeveloperNet Sysop #5

_
"Fabien" <fabien_arnaud at yahoo.fr> wrote in message
news:c007a5d3.0307011629.421145b0 at posting.google.com...
> Hello,
>
> I'm completly new on python and on Pocket PC ! I want to write an
> application and plane to us python, but I need graphical display. If I
> well enderstood, I will not find any port of TkInter on Pocket PC. Is
> there a way to use the standard pocket PC API from python ? any web
> site or book to start from without boriing anyone on this group ?
>
> Thanks for the answer !
>
> Fabien ARNAUD
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>







From member33375 at dbforums.com  Tue Jul 15 20:41:05 2003
From: member33375 at dbforums.com (sprmn)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 00:41:05 +0000
Subject: tkinter
Message-ID: <3114992.1058316065@dbforums.com>

does anyone know of any sites with good tutorials on tkinter on them?

--
Posted via http://dbforums.com



From richardc at hmgcc.gov.uk  Mon Jul 14 07:56:57 2003
From: richardc at hmgcc.gov.uk (richardc)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 12:56:57 +0100
Subject: A few beginning questions
Message-ID: <3f129a8a$1@mail.hmgcc.gov.uk>

Ive just started playing with Python and have a couple of questions.

Im looking for an agument parsing library (from the command line), Ive come
across optik and argtools.  What other ones are there are any of them any
good, is there a 'standard' lib for doing this.

Also how should I '#define' magic numbers in Python.  I spent ages looking
around for a 'define' statement or anything that will allow me to create a
constant value 'object'.  Am I missing something very obvious ?

Also, what 'IDE/editor' do people recomend for MAC OSX, so far Ive found
'Hydra' to be the best as it works on plain files and has Python syntax
highlighting... what else is there and are any of them any good.

Has nobody written an editor/IDE in Python with wxWindows so that it runs on
all platforms ?

Many thanks

Rich





From bobx at linuxmail.org  Thu Jul 10 12:33:23 2003
From: bobx at linuxmail.org (Bob)
Date: 10 Jul 2003 09:33:23 -0700
Subject: ftp a file by date and name match
References: <1001ff04.0307080629.7ef1e277@posting.google.com> <mailman.1057683552.18026.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1001ff04.0307100833.2f86f802@posting.google.com>

John Hunter <jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu> wrote in message news:<mailman.1057683552.18026.python-list at python.org>...
> >>>>> "Bob" == Bob  <bobx at linuxmail.org> writes:
> 
> Perhaps you'll join the ranks of the converted?

Mayhaps.  : )

The only problem I am having is that I do NOT know the name of the
file to match, only the pattern of the file name.



From sross at connectmail.carleton.ca  Sun Jul  6 17:25:13 2003
From: sross at connectmail.carleton.ca (Sean Ross)
Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2003 17:25:13 -0400
Subject: anything new on the ternary operator?
References: <y20Oa.11236$Hb.197832@news4.e.nsc.no>
Message-ID: <Ju0Oa.6332$Tx.96956@news20.bellglobal.com>

>From Guido's EuroPython 2003 "State of the Python Union" slides
http://www.europython.org/Talks/Slides/Slides_Guido_python_euro2003.ppt


Conditional Expressions
- Vote in March
- (if C: x else: y) won the vote
- But not by a landslide
- Now in Filibuster mode :)
- When in doubt, don't change it
- Competing forces:
    - feature bloat
    - handy feature





From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Wed Jul 23 19:05:47 2003
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 19:05:47 -0400
Subject: How does Mr. Martelli's Borg recipe work ?
References: <764b8294.0307221520.18017b09@posting.google.com> <vhru01p6s53790@news.supernews.com> <mailman.1058985883.11441.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <vhu5695svkrd5f@news.supernews.com>

"Steven Taschuk" <staschuk at telusplanet.net> wrote in message
news:mailman.1058985883.11441.python-list at python.org...
> Quoth John Roth:
>   [...]
> > I can kind of understand the justification for the Borg pattern
> > in Python releases before 2.2, because there was no way of
> > creating a true singleton in those releases. However, in 2.2 and
> > later, it's really easy to create one using new style classes.
>   [...implementing singletons with __new__...]
> > That being the case, I'd like to see the Borg pattern go the way
> > of a fondly remembered hack that is no longer necessary.
>
> Just out of curiosity: why do you prefer singletons to Borgs in
> the first place?

The root of the problem is that someone wants to call the
class constructor and get back something that acts like there's
only one instance. AFIC, the best solution is to not do that; there
are other patterns that are just as easy to understand and a lot
more tractable.

However, assuming that you actually want to do it, 2.2 gives you
a simple and straightforward way to implement the classical
singleton pattern. It's a class where there will be one and only
one instance. However unwise it may be, it's a basic OO
pattern.

> (I don't see Borg as a hack to get the behaviour of a singleton; I
> see it as a more direct way to solve the problem which singletons
> are supposed to solve.  Thus to me Borg is actually preferable, in
> those exceedingly rare cases when that problem actually arises.)

It's a hack because it's fiddling with the internal representation
of the object. At one time I had to maintain a large set of
changes to IBM's MVS, and I'm very sensitive to what happens
to the developer's flexibility when someone nails an internal
issue that ***SHOULD*** be subject to change between
releases without consequences, and suddenly forecloses
the developers options in the area.

Bad. Bad. Bad.

John Roth
>
> -- 
> Steven Taschuk                             staschuk at telusplanet.net
> "I may be wrong but I'm positive."  -- _Friday_, Robert A. Heinlein
>





From anthony at interlink.com.au  Sun Jul  6 09:36:15 2003
From: anthony at interlink.com.au (Anthony Baxter)
Date: Sun, 06 Jul 2003 23:36:15 +1000
Subject: Frustration with spurious posts. 
In-Reply-To: <3F081C10.8CF6B57@hotmail.com> 
References: <3F081C10.8CF6B57@hotmail.com>  <mailman.1057420812.18141.python-list@python.org> <3F06FD11.967D8D8A@hotmail.com> <Xns93B02F2F82A37JanC@213.119.4.244> 
Message-ID: <200307061336.h66DaFqT027267@localhost.localdomain>

>>> Alan Kennedy wrote
> Is there some sort of mail header that these virus checking gateways
> could examine, to see if the email is from a list, rather than an
> individual, before it sends these emails? Maybe we need to invent one,
> e.g.
> 
> X-Dont-Send-Me-Virus-Reports: YES

Won't help - the virus that fakes 'python-list at python.org' (or 
python-list at cwi.nl - while it's old, I'm sure it's out there still)
won't generate this header.

Greg Ward's aware of the issue, and he's working on it - offers of
useful round tuits to help him wouldn't be a bad thing. 

> > "Be strict when sending and tolerant when receiving."
> > RFC 1958 - Architectural Principles of the Internet - section 3.9
> 
> Do this mean we should quietly tolerate the "you sent me a virus!"
> emails?
> 
> ;-)

No, it means you should send very firmly worded "fix your fucking
mail gateway" messages to the people sending back useless bounce
messages.

-- 
Anthony Baxter     <anthony at interlink.com.au>   
It's never too late to have a happy childhood.





From martin at v.loewis.de  Sat Jul  5 04:04:21 2003
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-15?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 05 Jul 2003 10:04:21 +0200
Subject: AIX + GCC 2.95.3 - Python (2.1 or 2.2) - building the shared library (.so) for python - HOW TO?!?
References: <3F056D69.1090705@polbox.com>
Message-ID: <m3y8zdz9fe.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

hab <hab at polbox.com> writes:

> (If I use standard -shared linking, during the _import python is crashing.)
> As seen in in AIX-NOTES there should be used ld_so_aix. But I suspect
> that it was prepared for standard xlC (CC) compiler. How to make it
> running for GCC compiler?

Nobody knows anything about AIX in the Python world. You have to make
it work yourself.

> 1. Why is such nonuderstandable-ultimate-tricky solution prepared for AIX?

There are two possible reasons:
1. AIX is such a strange system that you need to play dirty tricks to
   make it load modules dynamically.
2. Whoever ported shared loading to AIX didn't know anything about the
   system, and tried random things until he got a working solution.

I don't know which one it is, but I'm leaning towards 1)

> 2. Does it work only for xlC (CC) or also for GCC? If, how to do it?

Nobody knows.

> 3. What is the entry point function? How I can find it in the sources?

You mean, of python itself? It's main(), and it is defined in
Modules/python.c.

Regards,
Martin



From m at moshez.org  Mon Jul 14 15:24:01 2003
From: m at moshez.org (Moshe Zadka)
Date: 14 Jul 2003 19:24:01 -0000
Subject: anything like C++ references?
In-Reply-To: <beulg2$ak1$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net>
References: <beulg2$ak1$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net>, <sag3hv4vf884ed7ouu5cv8ofnopp9j1t12@4ax.com>, <000301c348c7$3c501980$21795418@dell1700> <iqm2hvs77lhe1m71v9b579070khbf0uv0a@4ax.com> <berqqd$ad5$1@panix3.panix.com> <brs2hv8edfv0d1fch9mha8otuulajnkh0g@4ax.com> <bes0ps$l6$1@panix3.panix.com> <qi13hv4s21i8mtr2e600jumm54hqs7tppu@4ax.com> <mailman.1058125699.26133.python-list@python.org> <mailman.1058162661.28864.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <20030714192401.25922.qmail@green.zadka.com>

[Moshe Zadka]
> In computer science, the theoretical model one first learns is a turing
> machine. Turing machines have no variables or values, merely tapes.

[Andrew Dalke]
> Actually, we started off with state machine, then worked our way though
> DFA/NFA, PDA, etc., ending up with a TM.

Obviously, I meant "first turing-equivalent". Of course, whether this
is true also depends: in CS "Computability" this is true, but
in Math, we covered this in "Logic 2", and there we did, IIRC,
recursive functions and counting machines first. Counting machines
are mostly useful as something on the way to prove recursive functions
are turing complete.

> I remember being intrigued
> that the way we learned these was in opposite order to they way they
> were first researched.
> 
> Can anyone suggest why?  My thought was that mathematicians
> like generalizing, so the most general models were pondered first.
> Only as people started to experiment with variations, and with actual
> computer hardware to back them up, did people start thinking about
> more limited cases.

Well, I think that it's natural to study DFAs first, as a turing
machine is a DFA with a tape, so it's useful to know *why* the
tape is needed. Also, DFAs are a good explanation of "what are
computers", as a computer is necessarily finite. 
-- 
Moshe Zadka -- http://moshez.org/
Buffy: I don't like you hanging out with someone that... short.
Riley: Yeah, a lot of young people nowadays are experimenting with shortness.
Agile Programming Language -- http://www.python.org/




From http  Thu Jul 31 15:27:14 2003
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 31 Jul 2003 12:27:14 -0700
Subject: HTML DOM parser?
Message-ID: <7x7k5y5wfh.fsf_-_@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Is there an HTML DOM parser available for Python?  Preferably one that
does a reasonable job with the crappy HTML out there on real web
pages, that doesn't get upset about unterminated tables and stuff like
that.  Many extra points if it understands Javascript.  Application is
a screen scraping web robot.  Thanks.



From spinard at ra.rockwell.com  Fri Jul 11 11:15:45 2003
From: spinard at ra.rockwell.com (Steve Pinard)
Date: 11 Jul 2003 08:15:45 -0700
Subject: How to get all IP addresses in python?
References: <belfv0$bqp4$1@netnews.upenn.edu>
Message-ID: <6cd58b6.0307110715.1bb9bc23@posting.google.com>

Try socket.getaddrinfo rather than socket.gethostbyname.  It returns a
list of tuples.  tuple[4][0] of each list element is the IP address.

addrs = socket.getaddrinfo(socket.gethostname(), None)
for addr in addrs:
    print addr[4][0]

The above worked on my machine but I only have one NIC card.

- Steve



From shane at zope.com  Thu Jul 10 11:36:33 2003
From: shane at zope.com (Shane Hathaway)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 11:36:33 -0400
Subject: Securing PyDoc and CGIHTTPserver
In-Reply-To: <2621b014.0307100535.449ad06f@posting.google.com>
References: <2621b014.0307100535.449ad06f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3F0D8801.3000105@zope.com>

Jon Schull wrote:
> The port number used by pydoc is currently set by the user at the
> command line.  Many people probably use the example given in the
> python module documentation : "python -p 1234"    However, if the port
> were chosen at random and printed out, then only pydoc and the user
> would know how to access the pydoc server.

What about binding only to the local (loopback) interface?  That way, 
the system won't even listen for external connections.  It's like a 
built-in firewall.

The change is a one-liner.  The DocServer computes the hostname for the 
loopback interface but then binds to all interfaces.  So change this line:

   self.address = ('', port)

to:

   self.address = (host, port)

Shane





From drlinux at columbus.rr.com  Thu Jul  3 12:00:25 2003
From: drlinux at columbus.rr.com (Dave Reed)
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 12:00:25 -0400
Subject: python 2.3b[12]
In-Reply-To: <3F037015.3D6D7034@alcyone.com>
References: <mailman.1057185306.22713.python-list@python.org> <3F037015.3D6D7034@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <200307031200.25633.drlinux@columbus.rr.com>

On Wednesday 02 July 2003 19:51, Erik Max Francis wrote:
> Dave Reed wrote:
> 
> > ./python
> > Python 2.3b1 (#1, Jun 14 2003, 15:08:24)
> > [GCC 3.2.3] on sunos5
> > Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more 
information.
> > >>>
> > 
> > I thought maybe this was just someone forgetting to update the 
startup
> > message for the new beta, but I've seen other messages that show
> > Python 2.3b2.
> > 
> > Any ideas on what happened?
> 
> Hmm, mine doesn't (built from scratch on Linux):
> 
> max at oxygen:~% python2.3
> Python 2.3b2 (#1, Jun 29 2003, 20:30:58) 
> [GCC egcs-2.91.66 19990314/Linux (egcs-1.1.2 release)] on linux2
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> 
> Are you sure you're running the version you think you are?


I even ran it directly from the build directory and it still reports
b1.

I do have b1 installed in another directory (that was in the path when
I compiled b2). Maybe I need to remove that version of python before
compiling the new one. I used different --prefix= values when
compiling each one, but since the other one was still in the path, it
may have messed up.

Dave






From belred1 at yahoo.com  Sat Jul 12 15:13:46 2003
From: belred1 at yahoo.com (Bryan)
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 19:13:46 GMT
Subject: Accessing and updating global variables among several modules
References: <a12f6af8.0307111938.4d7a9851@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <K5ZPa.43399$wk6.10171@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net>

"Fuming Wang" <fumingw at tom.com> wrote in message
news:a12f6af8.0307111938.4d7a9851 at posting.google.com...
> Hi,
>
> I have several modules that need to access global variables among
> them.  I can do that by import modules:
>
> module A:
> gA = 'old'
>
> module B:
> import A
> print A.gA
> >>> 'old'
>
> change gA in module A after some initialization:
> def init_fuct():
>     gA = 'new'
>

the bug is here.... change your init_fuct() like this and everything should
work.

def init_fuct():
    global gA
    gA = 'new'


what happened is that you created a new local gA variable and never set your
global one.

bryan



> no change in module B:
> print A.gA
> >>> 'old'
>
> However, when I modify these global variables in one module, the other
> modules would not see the changes.  Any one has any suggestions? ( I
> don't want to use from A import *)
>
>
> Thanks,
> Fuming






From P at draigBrady.com  Tue Jul 29 05:19:19 2003
From: P at draigBrady.com (P at draigBrady.com)
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 10:19:19 +0100
Subject: Python on a USB storage device?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1059417822.1355.python-list@python.org>
References: <VXcVa.28$HY3.42617@news.uswest.net> <mailman.1059417822.1355.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3F263C17.2080200@draigBrady.com>

Heiko Wundram wrote:
> On Mon, 2003-07-28 at 19:27, Kevin Altis wrote:
> 
>>Does anyone have experience running Python from a USB storage device?
> 
> 
> I don't have experience running Python from an USB storage device, but
> I've been using a 1GB USB-Stick to carry around a Knoppix distribution
> with me, for those PCs which can boot from USB and don't have a CD-ROM
> drive (there are quite a few where I work as sys-admin). USB works well
> here, so I guess if you use USB to carry around a Python installation,
> this should work well too.
> 
> USB 2.0 doesn't matter, as the USB-sticks I know of don't even support
> it (the normal transmission speed of those sticks is an average 5 MB/s,
> and that's way below USB 1.1 max speed of 11 MB/s).

Careful, see http://www.pixelbeat.org/speeds
USB 2.0 = 60  MB/s
USB 1.1 = 1.5 MB/s

You can get flash chips now that do 6MB/s

P?draig.




From jkraska at san.rr.com  Wed Jul 16 02:01:01 2003
From: jkraska at san.rr.com (Courageous)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 06:01:01 GMT
Subject: [OT] sentances with two meanings
References: <mailman.1058285485.16770.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <l8q9hvc2efbcrc6la4h0sakvoapnjj9lgd@4ax.com>

>It's archaic now, so if you asked someone "Do you know Guido van Rossum", no-one would think you
>were asking "Have you had sex with GvR"

I bet that, when first authoring Python, Mr. Van Russom never imagined that as a
consequence he might here those particular words in that particular order. :)

C//




From bokr at oz.net  Wed Jul  9 04:57:36 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 9 Jul 2003 08:57:36 GMT
Subject: path module
References: <1057651068.5348.386.camel@lothlorien> <20030708113219.H6906@prim.han.de> <1057686623.3738.62.camel@lothlorien> <mailman.1057688960.10105.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <begle0$1fs$0@216.39.172.122>

On Tue, 8 Jul 2003 20:28:52 +0200, holger krekel <pyth at devel.trillke.net> wrote:
[...]
>
>but i use the same idea (filter-functions) for more advanced walkers:
>
>    p = path('/music')
>    for i in p.filterwalk(AND(nolink, isfile, isplayable, match(repattern))):
>        play_mp3(i)
>
>where filterwalk is a generator because i don't want the playscript to 
>first try to gather *all* files for obvious reasons (as would happen with 
>list comprehension).  This has proven to be incredibly useful and easy to
>read (if you don't engange in list-comprehension <-> functional-style
>wars).  Just because Guido somewhat dislikes "functional support" like
>lambda, map, filter and friends to be in the __builtin__ module 
>doesn't mean it's bad :-)
>
What if we had a file systems package from which to import support
for various file system access, e.g.,

    from filesystems import fs_win32share   # might e.g., use or clone samba infrastructure?
    puterfs = fs_win32share.mount(r'\\puter\sharename') #(cf. virtual block device steps below)
    p = puterfs.path(r'\music')
    for i in p.filterwalk(AND(nolink, isfile, isplayable, match(repattern))):
        play_mp3(i)

... i.e., play mp3's stored as windows shared files via LAN.

Taking a cue from os.path, which is posixpath for slackware linux, and ntpath for NT4, perhaps
they could be callable as os.path('/some/path/to/a/dir') to create a path object suitable for
the default file system, referring to the specified directory. A path object could then
have a file method, and the builtin file function might really be the bound method os.path('').file.
It isn't right now, so I write it out below to be clear. An useful binding might be os.file also.

    from filesystems import f_as_blockdev
    a_drive_vbd = f_as_blockdev.mount(os.path('').file(r'\\.\A:')) # physical NT floppy A
    from filesystems import fs_apple
    applefdfs = fs.apple.mount(a_drive_vbd)
    srcp = applefdfs.path(r'\music')
    dstp = os.path('.')
    for i in p.filterwalk(AND(nolink, isfile, isplayable, match(repattern))):
        dstp.copy(i)

or maybe looking at a CDROM  file as an apple floppy image, and copying some files to the
local file system, e.g.,

    from filesystems import f_as_blockdev
    a_drive_img_vbd = f_as_blockdev.mount(os.path('').file(r'X:\apple\floppies\fdimg.1')) # CDROM X:
    from filesystems import fs_apple
    applefdfs = fs.apple.mount(a_drive_img_vbd)
    srcp = applefdfs.path(r'\music')
    dstp = os.path('.') # assumes callable instantiates path object for default local file system
    for i in p.filterwalk(AND(nolink, isfile, isplayable, match(repattern))):
        dstp.copy(i) # assumes copy method copying to './filename' for filter-surviving filenames.

Etc., etc., (ok, very short songs on floppy ;-)

I.e., path magic would be file-system-appropriate, yet provide a uniform generic interface
with reasonable (but presumably configurable in some file-system-specific ways) defaults.

File systems would be mounted using virtual block devices, unless the mount method for the
file system can reasonably bypass that to synthesize a file system object using non-block/char
device access, e.g., as a local proxy object for a remote file system (or virtual file-system
view, e.g., of an html href/imgref tree or news thread, or database, etc. etc.).

<ramble>
Note that a virtual file system could well have GUI side effects when written to. The frame buffer
device would be interesting to capture access to via a virtual file system module along the lines of
the above. Note also that GUI windows have a hierarchy that could map to a virtual file object hierarchy.
Imagine a virtual svg file system mounted to an x-window instance, so that when you wrote svg source
to it you would get the visual effects in that window. Alternatively, mount on a full-screen virtual
device, etc. Creating virtual sub-"directories" could create child windows...

I see various plotting packages factored into this form as well. And binary mode writes for fast
stuff. For grahic vfs's IWT their mount methods should accept a virtual frame buffer device, so
that something transparent and fast can ultimately talk almost directly to hardware. Maybe it
could be prototyped using tkinter infrastructure, though. Or pygame/sdl.

I've been thinking of prototyping a simple plotting graphic vfs along the above lines. Maybe its
calcomp driver writing nostalgia (I wrote a rasterizing driver to plot calcomp command streams on
a versatec 'way back. Of course a random access canvas will make it easier (there wasn't space
to brute force a full image and then feed the raster plotter ;-)
</ramble>

Just a couple of thoughts to throw in the idea hopper (this variation HOTTOMH, so very alpha ;-)
Too many irons in the coals (not to say fire ;-/)

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From gumuz at looze.net  Fri Jul  4 05:52:12 2003
From: gumuz at looze.net (Guyon Morée)
Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 11:52:12 +0200
Subject: pyBoards.com
References: <191e20c8.0307031711.42d4e46b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3f054d9a$0$13803$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net>

I like the initiative for a messageboard for Python, but I think it would be
similar to this newsgroup.... and I am quite happy with  it so I don't
really see a use for it imho



"Kyle Babich" <usenet at kyle.sent.com> wrote in message
news:191e20c8.0307031711.42d4e46b at posting.google.com...
> I have just opened pyBoards.com, a community for Python programmers.
> Please stop by and check it out.
>
> http://www.pyBoards.com
>
> Tell me what you think,
> Kyle





From duanek at chorus.net  Tue Jul 29 09:49:54 2003
From: duanek at chorus.net (Duane Kaufman)
Date: 29 Jul 2003 06:49:54 -0700
Subject: newbie needs a little help... trying to write an ftp script.
References: <e84f5d12.0307281040.42a19391@posting.google.com> <bg58tn$4jc$1@atlantis.news.tpi.pl>
Message-ID: <59023571.0307290549.285169b@posting.google.com>

Hi,

I have had a similar need recently, and have found a module called
ftputil:
http://www.ndh.net/home/sschwarzer/python/python_software.html

This enables one to deal with FTP hosts on a file basis, and makes
things _much_ easier.

Good luck,
Duane

Wojtek Walczak <gminick at hacker.pl> wrote in message news:<bg58tn$4jc$1 at atlantis.news.tpi.pl>...
> Dnia 28 Jul 2003 11:40:48 -0700, google account napisa?(a):
> [...]
> > The docs suggest that I could do something like....
> > 
> > import ftplib
> > 	
> > ftp = ftplib.FTP('172.30.30.30')  # This is wrong,  somehow...?
> > ftp.login(user,pass)
>                  ^^^^
> Do not use pass in this way - it's a python's keyword. Use some other 
> name instead.
> 
> > ftp.retrlines('LIST')  # I believe it might need to be
> > ftp.retrlines('ls -al')
> > ftp.sendcmd('prompt')
> > ftp.cwd('folder')
> > ftp.retrbinary(retr *tgz)
> > ftp.quit()
> Here's a simple example:
> 
> import ftplib,sys
> 
> ftp = ftplib.FTP('ftp.python.org')
> ftp.login('anonymous','qwe at asd.pl')
> print ftp.retrlines('LIST')
> ftp.cwd('pub/python')
> print ftp.retrlines('LIST')
> print ftp.retrbinary('retr README', sys.stdout.write)
> ftp.quit()



From iambrenNOSPAM at sympatico.ca  Tue Jul 22 18:11:39 2003
From: iambrenNOSPAM at sympatico.ca (Bren)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 18:11:39 -0400
Subject: Problem building extension sample with Python 2.2.3
References: <da3bb005.0307211216.22425dec@posting.google.com> <7h34r1eznbq.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk> <q5crhvgr19rrfgjqnujn8im1i64ijbgikj@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <0kdrhv4m4040p8dq8pf45o6fhr7fk86h7k@4ax.com>

On Tue, 22 Jul 2003 17:51:02 -0400, Bren <iambrenNOSPAM at sympatico.ca>
wrote:

>On Tue, 22 Jul 2003 13:53:53 GMT, Michael Hudson <mwh at python.net>
>wrote:
>
>>iambren at sympatico.ca (Bren) writes:
>>
>>> Hi, 
>>> 
>>> I'm trying to build the sample extension file from
>>> http://www.python.org/doc/current/ext/simpleExample.html.
>>> 
>>> I get a linker error:
>>> 
>>> Linking...
>>> spam.obj : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol
>>> __imp__Py_InitModule4TraceRefs
>>> 
>>> Also, I find it necessary to ignore python22_d.lib and link
>>> python22.lib explicitly when I make a Debug build.
>>
>>There's your problem, I think.  You seem to be trying to build a debug
>>version of your module against a release version of Python.  This
>>won't work.
>
>Thanks, that worked!
>
>Now, I am working on embedding python in a C/C++ app, so I would like
>very much to be able to debug the code in C/C++ functions when they
>are called by Python.  Is it possible I could get a debug version of
>this lib/dll somewhere to let me do this?  Is there a python22_d.lib?

Nevermind, I see the answer in another thread.

Ugh, this could be much easier...


-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----



From elainejackson7355 at home.com  Sat Jul 12 17:07:48 2003
From: elainejackson7355 at home.com (Elaine Jackson)
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 21:07:48 GMT
Subject: new in town
References: <AeVPa.445271$Vi5.11496890@news1.calgary.shaw.ca> <2a897f11.0307121139.21470fbb@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <EM_Pa.420940$ro6.10135135@news2.calgary.shaw.ca>

Thank you.

Wayne Pierce <wayne at mishre.com> wrote in message
news:2a897f11.0307121139.21470fbb at posting.google.com...
| "Elaine Jackson" <elainejackson7355 at home.com> wrote in message
news:<AeVPa.445271$Vi5.11496890 at news1.calgary.shaw.ca>...
| > Can Python be compiled? If so, how? (I have the 2.2 version of the
interpreter.)
| > TIA for any and all helps
|
| If you want to be able to distribute your Python apps without the end
| user needing a Python interpreter take a look at the following:
|
| http://www.mcmillan-inc.com/install1.html
|
| Wayne





From bgailer at alum.rpi.edu  Mon Jul 21 08:18:20 2003
From: bgailer at alum.rpi.edu (Bob Gailer)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 06:18:20 -0600
Subject: ODBC to Oracle (data source name not found)
In-Reply-To: <4VJSa.97003$GL4.26848@rwcrnsc53>
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20030721061538.01d49578@66.28.54.253>

At 04:23 AM 7/21/2003 +0000, Michael J. Moore wrote:

>I have set up an ODBC connection to an oracle database named MIKE on my
>local machine. I have tested this ODBC connection using EXCEL and it works
>fine. The same data source results in ...
>-----------------
>Python 2.2.3 (#42, May 30 2003, 18:12:08) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
>Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> >>> import dbi
> >>> import odbc
> >>> d=odbc.odbc('mike/mike/guess')
>Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
>dbi.operation-error: [Microsoft][ODBC Driver Manager] Data source name not
>found and no default driver specified in LOGIN

I had the same problem. I asked the same question. No answer. A search of 
Microsoft extensive online "help" got several links to pages with this error
listed amongst others, but NO explanation!

Bob Gailer
bgailer at alum.rpi.edu
303 442 2625
-------------- next part --------------

---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.500 / Virus Database: 298 - Release Date: 7/10/2003

From mis6 at pitt.edu  Sat Jul 19 09:30:37 2003
From: mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato)
Date: 19 Jul 2003 06:30:37 -0700
Subject: feature request: a better str.endswith
References: <2259b0e2.0307180401.5dae02f2@posting.google.com> <mailman.1058534669.8794.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <2259b0e2.0307190530.17a48052@posting.google.com>

Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.1058534669.8794.python-list at python.org>...
> Michele> I often feel the need to extend the string method ".endswith"
>     Michele> to tuple arguments, in such a way to automatically check for
>     Michele> multiple endings.  For instance, here is a typical use case:
> 
>     Michele> if filename.endswith(('.jpg','.jpeg','.gif','.png')):
>     Michele>     print "This is a valid image file"
> 
> This is analogous to how isinstance works, where its second arg can be a
> class or type or a tuple containing classes and types.
> 
> I suggest you submit a feature request to SF.  A patch to stringobject.c and
> unicodeobject.c would help improve chances of acceptance, and for symmetry
> you should probably also modify the startswith methods of both types.
> 
> Skip

Too bad my skills with C are essentially unexistent :-(


            Michele



From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Tue Jul 15 10:41:52 2003
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 15 Jul 2003 10:41:52 -0400
Subject: anything like C++ references?
References: <b8c3hvsesjoumiboobml3nsnajtha99mp1@4ax.com> <m3znjg5qw7.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <3f67hvgi36s7rmtn59rajj2gpir8hhfiph@4ax.com> <3F13ADDD.57BF2969@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <bf13rg$hgo$1@panix2.panix.com>

In article <3F13ADDD.57BF2969 at alcyone.com>,
Erik Max Francis  <max at alcyone.com> wrote:
>
>The value is the object.  The object is the value.

Actually, that's not quite true, and it's something I've been wrestling
with how to describe.  What's the value of a file object?  I think in a
very real sense, a file object doesn't have a "value".  You could try
arguing that the file contents are the value, but that value is not
contained within the object -- the object is a proxy.  Saying that the
filename is the value doesn't work, either, especially when you want to
talk generically about file-like objects (such as StringIO and sockets).
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"Not everything in life has a clue in front of it...."  --JMS



From rune.hansen at sinsenveien83.com  Fri Jul 25 07:15:51 2003
From: rune.hansen at sinsenveien83.com (Rune Hansen)
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 13:15:51 +0200
Subject: Tkinter and Mac OS X
In-Reply-To: <BB459426.8015%stark7@sbcglobal.net>
References: <BB459426.8015%stark7@sbcglobal.net>
Message-ID: <Ij8Ua.15667$Hb.262908@news4.e.nsc.no>

Hi David, I believe the python (2.2.3) that comes with MacOS 10.2.x is 
unable to use Tk out of the box. In other words it's not compiled with 
the Tk libs present. Compiling Python 2.3c2 is a "no brainer", and I 
guess downloads will be availible at 
http://homepages.cwi.nl/~jack/macpython.html pending the release.
If you'd like to compile it your self follow the instructions in 
Python[src]/Mac/OSX/README

regards

/rune

David Stark wrote:
> I have Mac OS 10.2 which ships with python.  I downloaded TclTkAqua from
> ActiveState and installed it.  Then I get:
> 
> 
>>>>import Tkinter
> 
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
>   File "/usr/lib/python2.2/lib-tk/Tkinter.py", line 35, in ?
>     import _tkinter # If this fails your Python may not be configured for Tk
> ImportError: No module named _tkinter
> 
> 
> After digging around on www.python.org I get the impression that I have to
> download the source and do my own build.  Do I really have to go through
> this?  Is the OS X distribution of python different (for a reason)?
> 
> 




From ilya at cray.glas.net  Mon Jul 14 03:52:27 2003
From: ilya at cray.glas.net (Ilya Etingof)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 07:52:27 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: pySNMP: SNMPget example
References: <538fc8e.0307100356.4bf46554@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <betnfr$dqj$1@news.rol.ru>

> 2) when using: 'from pysnmp import role' (found on
> http://pysnmp.sourceforge
> .net/examples/2.x/snmpget.html), I get the message 'ImportError:

You seems to use pysnmp 2.x API which differs from the latest 3.x branch
(though, a compatibility layer exists in 3.x distribution). That's why
I suggest you looking at the 3.x docs and examples at:

http://pysnmp.sourceforge.net/docs/3.x/index.html

> 3) A general question: how can I get a list of what I can type after
> the 'from
> pysnmp import ...'

dir(<module>) may help but in this case I'd better see an example.

> 4) How can I use: 'from snmpget import snmpget'. It does not accept
> this.

There is no such module as snmpget in pysnmp.

> 5) Anyone has a simple example for the following application: I have a
> cable
> modem (which has an SNMP agent inside). I want to make a script where
> I can
> do SNMPgets (and later SNMPSet and SNMPwalk). 

Python 1.5.2 (#3, Aug 25 1999, 19:14:24)  [GCC 2.8.1] on sunos5
Copyright 1991-1995 Stichting Mathematisch Centrum, Amsterdam
>>> from pysnmp.proto import v1
>>> from pysnmp.proto.api import generic
>>> from pysnmp.mapping.udp import role
>>> req = v1.GetRequest()
>>> req.apiGetPdu().apiSetVarBind([('1.3.6.1.2.1.1.1.0', None)])
>>> tr = role.manager(('router-1.glas.net', 161))
>>> (answer, src) = tr.send_and_receive(req.encode())
>>> rsp = v1.GetResponse()
>>> rsp.decode(answer)
>>> vars = rsp.apiGetPdu().apiGetVarBind()
>>> print vars
[('.1.3.6.1.2.1.1.1.0', OctetString('Cisco Internetwork Operating System
Software\015\012IOS (tm) 5400 Software(C5400-JS-M), Version 12.2(11.8b), 
MAINTENANCE INTERIM SOFTWARE\015\012 Copyright (c) 1986-2002 by cisco 
Systems, Inc.\015\012 Compiled Tue 30-Jul-02 19:02 by pwade'))]
>>>

> 7) What is the difference between snmpget and getrequest in pysnmp? 

The only difference is the SNMP request object (GetRequest vs GetNextRequest)
you create when building SNMP message.

-ilya



From wim_wauters at skynet.be  Thu Jul 10 06:52:05 2003
From: wim_wauters at skynet.be (WIWA)
Date: 10 Jul 2003 03:52:05 -0700
Subject: SNMP support for Python under Windows
References: <538fc8e.0307091027.1825b454@posting.google.com> <3F0C65FB.1B86A0C2@engcorp.com> <538fc8e.0307091335.70526148@posting.google.com> <3F0CB4ED.C195374F@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <538fc8e.0307100252.20261deb@posting.google.com>

Hi Peter,

Thanks for this useful information. I tried this on my Windows2000
system and it seems to work. I used distutils and modified the PATH
entry. I'll check on my Windows XP machine and will let you know if I
found any discrepancy.

Thanks again for all your effort. I have another question, but will
put that in a separate message on this discussion forum. Any help is
welcome.

- Wim

Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message news:<3F0CB4ED.C195374F at engcorp.com>...
> WIWA wrote:
> > 
> > I did two things, both unsuccessfull:
> > 
> > 1) If I install the pySNMP modules under lib/site-packages and then
> > type sth like:
> > from pysnmp import session it gives the error message "ImportError: No
> > module named pysnmp". The same happens if I unstall pySNMP directly
> > under the lib directory. Installs in this context means 'copy paste'
> > the *.py files of the pySNMP distribution.
> 
> I misled you the first time, but have since taken another look 
> at the installation to see how it works.  In order to import
> anything from a package (roughly, a set of .py files that includes an 
> __init__.py file), you need to put those files in a directory
> which is named for the package (e.g. pysnmp in this case) _and_ 
> which is available in sys.path.  (Do "import sys" and "sys.path"
> to see the list.  You probably have lib/site-packages in that
> list, so just put all the PySNMP files under it in a folder called
> pysnmp.)
> 
> > - Do I need to explicitly mention in my script where pySNMP is
> > installed?
> 
> Not if it's in a folder called pysnmp that is itself in one of the
> sys.path folders, or under the current folder.
> 
> > 2) I installed distutils 1.0.2 for Windows and it installed into the
> > Python directory. So ar so good, I think...
> 
> Distutils is included in Python so you probably didn't need to do 
> that, and maybe shouldn't have.  I'm not sure whether that will have 
> broken the standard distutils.  It's repairable if it did.  On my
> Python 2.2.1 setup here, the standard distutils is v1.0.3.
> 
> > I go to DOS prompt and go to the directory where disutils is installed
> > and type in python setup.py install, but DOS replies:
> > 'Python is not recognized as an internal or external command, program
> > or batchfile".
> 
> Now that's a different problem.  You need python.exe to be findable
> from the DOS PATH.  The simplest approach might be to check the FAQ
> entry at http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw.py?req=show&file=faq08.018.htp
> 
> As a test of the pysnmp installation, without having to change PATH
> at all, change to the Python directory ("cd \python" or whatever)
> and run the interactive interpreter ("python") and just type 
> "import pysnmp" to see if it works.
> 
> > System coordinates are Windows XP. Python version is 2.2.2 and pySNMP
> > is version 3.0.0.
> 
> Should all be no problem, although I suspect instructions in that
> FAQ entry may be a little light on XP advice.  Let us know if you
> see any area that could be improved so others can benefit from this
> exchange...
> 
> -Peter



From CousinStanley at hotmail.com  Sun Jul  6 17:17:52 2003
From: CousinStanley at hotmail.com (Cousin Stanley)
Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2003 14:17:52 -0700
Subject: Calculating Year, Month and Day of Life
References: <be72ph$k60$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <be87f5$28755$1@ID-130333.news.dfncis.de> <be9fnl$3t4$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <bea3ig$2rqaj$1@ID-130333.news.dfncis.de>

| I'm learning as much about Python as I can.

  Keep on as Python is definitely a good programming language
  choice and there are a lot of good learning resources available,
  this NewsGroup being among the best ...

| I like it because it has both a theorhetical/academic side
| and a practical/get-stuff-done side.

  I believe most programming languages exhibit this sort
  of two-faced duality, which can be a function of one's mindset
  when seeking a solution for a particular problem,
  but Python makes the transitiion from the sublime
  to the pragmatic much quicker and less painless ...

| It also helps me to better understand C, C++ and Java.
| It's great.

  This is true ...

  However, after tasting the savory flavors
  of the Python stew, you may find the flavors
  of other languages a bit more bitter
  and harder to swallow ...

| I was class of 1998 at Virginia Tech.

  I left Va Tech in Jan. 1978,
  which now seems like a baZillion years ago ...

  I do miss the friendly Virgina people
  and the beautiful country-side around Blacksburg,
  but I  DON'T  miss the snow and the cold ...

|
| When it comes to tech schools...
| there's no place like Virginia Tech.
| Go Hokies !!!

  Go Hokies !!!!

-- 
Cousin Stanley
Human Being
Phoenix, Arizona





From mis6 at pitt.edu  Tue Jul 15 09:32:48 2003
From: mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato)
Date: 15 Jul 2003 06:32:48 -0700
Subject: Qualified appology (was Re: anything like C++ references?)
References: <b8c3hvsesjoumiboobml3nsnajtha99mp1@4ax.com>  <mailman.1058129901.28248.python-list@python.org>  <plk3hv0s1m2egf4s34jo6vjedk0q8r2mu9@4ax.com>  <m365m6ul5c.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>  <1br3hv4434gn7p2pdg1bgtg8dtlak3id3s@4ax.com>  <f0f51c80.0307140708.3c88363d@posting.google.com>  <jm76hvkmdqq3erpd89mcvo0l1d0sbfcivm@4ax.com> <20030714172215452-0600@news.xmission.com> <rqu6hvgooedmq475ig3ic9ngqgj6uq0hv2@4ax.com> <gj87hv8gqpbv6032plo7nnnkmp56nq6q6p@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <2259b0e2.0307150532.1b6b20b7@posting.google.com>

Tim Roberts <timr at probo.com> wrote in message news:
> Whether or not I agree with you, you have made me think.  That's worth the
> price of my Internet connection this month.

+1 QOTW

         Michele



From tanzer at swing.co.at  Mon Jul  7 02:53:56 2003
From: tanzer at swing.co.at (tanzer at swing.co.at)
Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 08:53:56 +0200
Subject: Frustration with spurious posts. 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 06 Jul 2003 13:54:40 BST."
             <3F081C10.8CF6B57@hotmail.com> 
Message-ID: <E19ZPsq-0004D5-00@tswings.swing.cluster>

Alan Kennedy <alanmk at hotmail.com> wrote:
> Is there some sort of mail header that these virus checking gateways
> could examine, to see if the email is from a list, rather than an
> individual, before it sends these emails? Maybe we need to invent one,
> e.g.
> 
> X-Dont-Send-Me-Virus-Reports: YES

If you look at the headers of any mail coming from <python-list.python.org>
you'll:

    Precedence: bulk

Looks good enough to me.
-- 
Christian Tanzer                                         tanzer at swing.co.at





From mporter at despammed.com  Sun Jul 27 08:50:14 2003
From: mporter at despammed.com (Michael Porter)
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 13:50:14 +0100
Subject: Pythoncom shutdown problems
References: <mailman.1059266799.22153.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3f23c957$0$965$cc9e4d1f@news.dial.pipex.com>

"Hannes Grund" <grundhan at cs.tu-berlin.de> wrote in message
news:mailman.1059266799.22153.python-list at python.org...
> Dear all,
> probably offtopic for the general python list, but I don't know were to go
> else.
>
> I'm currently developing somekind of middleware
> wich makes heavy use of pythonwin/com extensions.
> (The complete setup is: win2000/winXP, python2.2,
> win32all-152, wxPython resp. wxWindows).
>
> The software is aimed to manage data held by a software
> suite (called chemoffice) to manage chemical substances.
> It exposes it main components via COM, the intagration
> to python via win32com.client.Dispatch works well.
> The problem:
>
> When calling a special method on some of these COM objects
> one component launches a process which appears to be a subprocess
> of svchost.exe.
> The result is that I'm unable to terminate the python process
> after this process has been started, furthermore if
> I shutdown the python process manually, it keeps alive, causing
> problems during windows shutdown (i.e. you have to remove
> it manually as well).
>
> Any help or hint would be highly appreciated,
>
> thanks in advance,
>   Hannes Grund
>

This may be unrelated, but I had a similar problem when using Python via COM
as a scripting language with the XMetal XML editor. In this case XMetal
would refuse to shut down after running one of my Python macros (the GUI
would disappear but the xmetal process would not close and would have to be
sutdown manually).

The solution in this case was to explicitly run the Python garbage collector
before shutdown by installing an Macro which did:

import gc
gc.collect()

Perhaps a similar thing might work for you?

Mike.







From richard at stockcontrol.net  Tue Jul 22 07:53:36 2003
From: richard at stockcontrol.net (Richard Walkington)
Date: 22 Jul 2003 04:53:36 -0700
Subject: Memory errors when using imaplib with large email attachments
Message-ID: <2144d9df.0307220353.a958f84@posting.google.com>

Hello,

I'm using python to connect to an IMAP server and download mail. When
downloading messages with large attachements (> 10MB) Python socket
module crashes with a memory error. Is there anything I can do about
this?

Below is the trace back from using the imaplib example program from
the documentation to download the mailbox in question.

Thanks in adavance,
Richard Walkington

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "imap_test.py", line 8, in ?
    typ, data = M.fetch(num, '(RFC822)')
  File "c:\python23\lib\imaplib.py", line 417, in fetch
    typ, dat = self._simple_command(name, message_set, message_parts)
  File "c:\python23\lib\imaplib.py", line 1000, in _simple_command
    return self._command_complete(name, self._command(name, *args))
  File "c:\python23\lib\imaplib.py", line 830, in _command_complete
    typ, data = self._get_tagged_response(tag)
  File "c:\python23\lib\imaplib.py", line 931, in _get_tagged_response
    self._get_response()
  File "c:\python23\lib\imaplib.py", line 893, in _get_response
    data = self.read(size)
  File "c:\python23\lib\imaplib.py", line 231, in read
    return self.file.read(size)
  File "c:\python23\lib\socket.py", line 301, in read
    data = self._sock.recv(recv_size)
MemoryError



From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Thu Jul 31 18:06:44 2003
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 18:06:44 -0400
Subject: handle <BR> tags
References: <mailman.1059657185.26996.python-list@python.org> <bgc3ad$o57$1@online.de>
Message-ID: <vij4o6mnjihfe4@news.supernews.com>

"Behrang Dadsetan" <ben at dadsetan.com> wrote in message
news:bgc3ad$o57$1 at online.de...
> Luca Calderano wrote:
> > Hi guys...
> >
> > I've done a subclass of SGMLParser
> > to handle the contents of a web page,
> > but i'm not able to handle the <BR> tag
> >
> > can someone help me???
> >
> >       S.G.A S.p.A.
> > Nucleo Sistemi Informativi
> >      Luca Calderano
> >
> >
> I do not know SGMLParser.. but HTML is not SGML nor any subset. It is
> some ill language which one even rarely finds "pure" (written in the way
> the spec says it MUST be)
>
> I believe SGML does not like none closing tags. BR is one of the many
> none closing tags in HTML (also look at IMG or HR)
>
> Depending on what you are doing you should maybe use XHTML as an input
> if you can (XML well-formed HTML, XML being a subset of SGML) or you
> should probably look for a completely different parser "technology".
> Maybe HTMLParser will help you a little more.
>
> Do not forget, random downloaded HTML from Internet is often broken.
> You might rather want to use tidylib (corrects broken HTML code into
> XHTML) and a XHTML/SGML parser or a DOM.
>
> Hope it helps even though the effort I took to check my statements was
> small :)

You're basically correct, though. You can't parse HTML with either
an SGML or an XML parser. You also can't parse it reliably if it has
Javascript embedded that generates HTML.

John Roth
>
> Regards,
> Ben.
>





From jjl at pobox.com  Mon Jul  7 18:11:07 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J Lee)
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 23:11:07 +0100 (BST)
Subject: A story about Python... sort of
In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20030707120140.025cb7d8@66.28.54.253>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0307072236440.1423-100000@alice>

On Mon, 7 Jul 2003, Bob Gailer wrote:

> At 01:48 PM 7/7/2003 +0100, John J. Lee wrote:
>
> >"Tony Meyer" <ta-meyer at ihug.co.nz> writes:
[...]
> >No matter how distant, it's nowhere near as far off as 'solving' chess
> >(which is no doubt physically impossible, at least with classical
> >(Turing machine) computation).
>
> Physically impossible? or impractical. If it can be solved by Turing
> machine computation then it is physically possible, even though it might
> take more time/resources than anyone cares to expend.

I really did mean impossible, not impractical (barring a drastic pruning
of the space of possible games, of course).

What is computable depends on the laws of physics.  A complete
(brute-force) Turing-machine (ie. classical) enumeration of all possible
chess games (as opposed to a quantum computation) would probably take more
computational resources than our universe has to offer.  My excuse for not
attempting to work out the number of chess games is that my undergrad
maths books are currently propping up the monitor I'm using to write this
<0.5 wink>.  A Google result (appropriately enough, given the origin of
the name Google) suggested 10**120, and I seem to have a number in my head
of 10**80 non-virtual particles in the universe (though I've no
recollection where *that* number came from either!-).  That's 10**40 chess
games for every particle in the universe, which is quite a lot <wink>.
If you took over the universe and did nothing else with it but play chess
games, you'd still never finish the problem.  In other words, it's
physically impossible to do it.

Possibly there is a quantum algorithm that makes use of many universes to
solve the problem, though (no I'm not joking: the many-worlds
'interpretation' is widely accepted amongst physicists working on quantum
computation).

Wait a minute...

<google result="http://www.qubit.org/people/david/Articles/Frontiers.html#correction">

[...]  Scott Aaronson at UC Berkeley has since drawn my attention to some
comments by Richard Cleve (quant-ph/9906111) pointing out that chess and
chess-like games (with a fixed number of choices per move, especially if
this number is small) are not very suitable for speedup by Grover
searching. At best one would expect a speedup by a moderate, fixed factor.
This does not rule out quantum chess-playing algorithms altogether, just
algorithms based on Grover-accelerated brute-force searching. But there is
no special reason to expect better quantum chess algorithms to exist.

</google>

So, it seems quite plausible that complete solution of the chess problem
is flat-out physically impossible.

Very readable talk by David Deutsch (founder of the theory of universal
quantum computers) about the relationship between physics and computation:

http://www.qubit.org/people/david/Articles/PPQT.pdf

And his home page:

http://www.qubit.org/people/david/David.html


> But remember "When Harley Was One" and he invented the G.O.D.?

I don't get the reference there.


John





From ss3canon at earthlink.net  Wed Jul  2 22:19:14 2003
From: ss3canon at earthlink.net (Mike)
Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 02:19:14 GMT
Subject: PySpy
Message-ID: <CoMMa.75839$Io.7093417@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>

I've read about this code animator but its main site doesn't exsist anymore.
Does anyone still use it and can ya point me to where I can download it?





From adechert at earthlink.net  Sun Jul 20 20:34:46 2003
From: adechert at earthlink.net (Alan Dechert)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 00:34:46 GMT
Subject: Possible use of Python for a voting machine demo project --your feedback requested
References: <P9DSa.111436$Io.9552373@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <mailman.1058740232.22829.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <GyGSa.111785$Io.9574045@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>

"Ian Bicking" <ianb at colorstudy.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.1058740232.22829.python-list at python.org...
>
> If you really want pixel-for-pixel control, then SDL will provide this
> for you.  Pygame (pygame.org) provides an interface to SDL, though it's
> somewhat low-level, pyui (pyui.sf.net) is slightly higher-level, but
> poorly documented and maybe not that helpful.  In particular, I'd be
> concerned about text rendering, and then the consistent translation of
> that to print.
>
> PDF would be easier to generate, though I'm not sure how you would make
> that interactive.  Reportlab generates PDFs nicely.  Perhaps it would be
> possible to lay out the boxes accurately so you know where they are,
> then let the PDF renderer fill in the text.  How exactly you would
> render the PDF I'm not sure... though heck, it doesn't have to be that
> interactive.  You could simply render it to images, and compose those
> images to come up with the screen.  That's probably easier and a better
> experience than allowing any change in flow or layout based on something
> the user does (i.e., you wouldn't want a selection to take up more space
> once selected, even if the text itself becomes larger).  Maybe there's
> other rendering techniques you could use that I'm not aware of.
>
Thanks for your thoughts on that.

> The interface looks really dense to me, though, while not being large
> enough for common ballots anyway.  Once you add in judges, you're
> getting a lot of options.  And the county commissioner input is way too
> dense.
>
It is fairly dense, but it will be used on large screens where it looks
pretty good.  Also, if you print it out on tabloid paper, the print is
"regulation size" for printed ballots.

There is a tremendous advantage to getting everything on one page if
possible.  Having multiple pages slows down the process greatly.  The time
it takes is a big cost factor for election administration and for voters.
This ballot has 45 candidates in 10 contests and another 3 public measures.
Some ballots in some jurisdictions will have more than this, but this is a
normal amount of stuff on average.

> Also, I suspect that the entire ballot is way to dense to be
> used with a touchscreen, where the accuracy of input isn't very good.
>
We'll see.  The touch screen we intend to use works well with a stylus.  So
if we get too many mistakes using fingers, we may just have people using a
stylus exclusively.

> You're going to have to plan on all votes being multi-page, and you
> might as well just program for that.  ...
>
I'll take this as a prediction, not necessarily correct, however.  Our team
includes some people with extensive experience with voting machine
evaluation -- they think it will work.  But again, we won't know for sure
until we try.  But beyond that, most voting machine PCs we are proposing to
use will be mouse driven.  So even if it proves to be too dense for a stylus
(very unlikely, imo) it is certainly not too dense for a mouse. Virtually
all of the testers using the web based version will be using a mouse.

>The printout could still be single
> page, but then it won't look like the ballot they filled out, though
> that's probably fine.
>
Right.  "Most experts agree" that such a printout should only show the
selections made -- not all the choices.  With 13 contests, it is no problem
to get all of this on one page.  There is probably no ballot so large that
the choices would not fit on one page.  Furthermore, when larger type is
provided to vision impaired, it's normally give at twice the size (not
larger) under existing guidelines.  So, even in these cases one page should
be adequate.

> I really don't know why everyone wants to use touchscreens in voting
> machines.  I hate touch screens, they are a horrible input method.
>
A lot of people agree with you.  Certainly, the Australians that designed
their system would agree.  They went for a keypad.

http://www.softimp.com.au/evacs.html

On the other hand, a lot of people really really like the touch screens.  We
can't make them all mouse driven since a percentage of the voters will have
a big problem with that.  But there is no reason to give up on mouse driven
systems just because some people can't use them.  Mice are very cheap and
most people are used to them.  So we just need to have enough non-Mice
systems to accommodate those that need/want them.  One nice thing about the
touch screen with our system is that it will look and work exactly the same
whether you use a mouse or touch screen.

For some, neither will work so we have to be able to accommodate them.  This
is a small percentage and I don't think we're going to worry about that for
the demo.  We're proposing a very large multi-campus study that would
investigate all these sorts of issues.

> ATM-style input is much better -- real buttons lined up along the side
> of the screen.  Very reliable, not just the hardware, but the accuracy
> of input.  The only problem is when the buttons are misaligned, so it's
> not clear how the screen selection maps to the buttons.  The only
> advantage of touchscreens is they are somewhat more flexible, but that's
> also their greatest flaw.
>
> You could even fit those buttons only normal monitors.  The buttons will
> be further away from the screen, but you can paint in strips on the
> enclosure right up to the screen so that it is very clear how the
> buttons correspond to the screen.  Even if the buttons were an inch from
> the screen and raised up off the screen, the stripes would make it very
> clear.
>
> Anyway, I wish you luck -- we certainly need open voting systems.  The
> current closed systems scare me.
>
I appreciate your taking the time to write.

Alan Dechert






From httpd at ncsa.uiuc.edu  Tue Jul  1 18:52:14 2003
From: httpd at ncsa.uiuc.edu (httpd at ncsa.uiuc.edu)
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 17:52:14 -0500
Subject: Movie
In-Reply-To: <200307012251.h61MpsU30834@mail.ncsa.uiuc.edu>
References: <200307012251.h61MpsU30834@mail.ncsa.uiuc.edu>
Message-ID: <200307012252.h61MqEx30882@mail.ncsa.uiuc.edu>

[This message last updated January 21, 1998]

Dear user:

This is an automated message.
The NCSA HTTPd is no longer a supported product.
The web pages <http://hoohoo.ncsa.uiuc.edu> are still available.

        FAQ page:
        <http://httpd.ncsa.uiuc.edu/docs/FAQ.html>

        HyperNews page:
        <http://union.ncsa.uiuc.edu/HyperNews/get/www/ncsa-httpd.html>

Another source of answers to your questions may be the newsgroup

        comp.infosystems.www.servers.unix or
        comp.infosystems.www.providers

Alternatively, the Apache Server (originally based on the NCSA HTTPd, and
still a free server) is still actively developed.  We recommend you take a
look at it <http://www.apache.org> as a possible replacement for the 
NCSA HTTPd.

For information about licensing NCSA HTTPD, contact Jae Allen at
jallen at ncsa.uiuc.edu.


NCSA HTTPd Technical Support




From rastm2 at aol.commorespam  Sun Jul 20 14:01:34 2003
From: rastm2 at aol.commorespam (Raymond Arthur St. Marie II of III )
Date: 20 Jul 2003 18:01:34 GMT
Subject: Stopping a loop with user input. in curses
References: <pan.2003.07.19.21.26.34.776055@antispam.com>
Message-ID: <20030720140134.18124.00000261@mb-m15.aol.com>

Hey Alex, 
I wrote a detailed explanation earlier today and it seams to have disappeared.
That's okay, because I had really beat up your code.

You know, it didn't occure to me till hours later that all you really had to do
is move the second while loop into the "theClock()" definition like this. 

I move the second while loop into the "theClock()" function so that it handles
the key press. Then consolodated the while loops into one loop.
If the finished variable is 0(zero) then the loop continues else it breaks the
loop and the function has no where else to go but out.

The problem with your original code is that the call to "theClock()" function
never sees the 'q' key press because the second while loop never gets executed
while the first while loop is forever executing.

I don't have curses installed so I can't test this for you,  but it should
work.

--------8<-----------------------
# Import curses module

import curses, time
stdscr = curses.initscr()

def theClock():
	
    # Define global colour scheme
    curses.init_pair(1, curses.COLOR_WHITE, curses.COLOR_BLUE)
	
    # Get the screen size
    max_y, max_x = stdscr.getmaxyx()
	
    # Calculate the clock position relative to the screen size
    clock_x = max_x - 28 
	
    # Draw the clock
    clockWindow = curses.newwin(3, 26, 1, clock_x)
    clockWindow.bkgd(' ', curses.color_pair(1))
    clockWindow.box()
    clockWindow.refresh()

    # If 'q' is pressed, exit
    finished = 0     
    while not finished:    # finished = 0 until the 'q' key is pressed
       c = stdscr.getch()
       if c == ord('q'):
           curses.beep()
            finished = 1
            break
    
        t = time.asctime()
        clockWindow.addstr(1, 1, t)
        clockWindow.refresh()
        time.sleep(1)


def main(stdscr):

    # Bring up the clock function

    theClock()

if __name__ == '__main__':
    curses.wrapper(main)

Ray--



From bokr at oz.net  Fri Jul 25 23:00:12 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 26 Jul 2003 03:00:12 GMT
Subject: How to detect typos in Python programs
References: <mailman.1059157418.10022.python-list@python.org> <bfsn0b$htm$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <bfsqrs$q1g$0@216.39.172.122>

On 26 Jul 2003 01:54:19 GMT, bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) wrote:
[code that got += line switched. needs change to increment after conditional print:]

--- prtok.py~   Fri Jul 25 18:52:53 2003
+++ prtok.py    Fri Jul 25 19:58:24 2003
@@ -43,6 +43,6 @@
                     print header
                     header = None
                 print '%15s:%-3s'% (key, freq),
-                npr +=1
                 if npr%4==3: print
+                npr +=1
         print

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From usenet_spam at janc.invalid  Tue Jul 15 23:13:04 2003
From: usenet_spam at janc.invalid (JanC)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 03:13:04 GMT
Subject: Library for pop over ssl?
References: <bersm5$88gse$1@ID-165840.news.uni-berlin.de> <Xns93BA29128EBB2JanC@213.118.75.80> <mailman.1058324245.30749.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Xns93BA3511BA21BJanC@213.118.75.80>

Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com> schreef:

>     >> Hi, I know of poplib, which does what I need except that it
>     >> doesn't support SSL encryption. imaplib has SSL-support. But I
>     >> want it with pop3. Is there a library available that does this
>     >> or do I have to implement it myself?
> 
>     JanC> You can always use stunnel to SSL-ize a "normal" protocol...
>     JanC> <http://www.stunnel.org/>
> 
> Doesn't stunnel only work for servers?

It works for both servers & clients.
I use it with Xnews (my newsreader) to access secure NNTP servers.

-- 
JanC

"Be strict when sending and tolerant when receiving."
RFC 1958 - Architectural Principles of the Internet - section 3.9



From max at alcyone.com  Tue Jul 15 20:14:49 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 17:14:49 -0700
Subject: Python Mystery Theatre -- Episode2:  =?iso-8859-1?Q?As=ED?= Fue
References: <VorQa.15236$Kw1.587@nwrdny02.gnilink.net> <3F140F34.1030401@mitretek.org> <bf145d$ijc$1@panix2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <3F1498F9.840667@alcyone.com>

Aahz wrote:

> My experience is that most people do it the way Ray did, <seq> *
> <reps>.

I do it Ray's way, too.  I'm not really sure why.

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ Nine worlds I remember.
\__/  Icelandic Edda of Snorri Sturluson



From rastm2 at aol.commorespam  Sun Jul 20 13:22:18 2003
From: rastm2 at aol.commorespam (Raymond Arthur St. Marie II of III )
Date: 20 Jul 2003 17:22:18 GMT
Subject: Stopping a loop with user input. in curses
References: <pan.2003.07.19.21.26.34.776055@antispam.com>
Message-ID: <20030720132218.18124.00000258@mb-m15.aol.com>

Hey Alex, 

You know, it didn't occure to me till hours later that all you really had to do
is move the second while loop into the "theClock()" definition like this. Same
reason applies.

# Import curses module

import curses, time
stdscr = curses.initscr()

def theClock():
	
    # Define global colour scheme
    curses.init_pair(1, curses.COLOR_WHITE, curses.COLOR_BLUE)
	
    # Get the screen size
    max_y, max_x = stdscr.getmaxyx()
	
    # Calculate the clock position relative to the screen size
    clock_x = max_x - 28 
	
    # Draw the clock
    clockWindow = curses.newwin(3, 26, 1, clock_x)
    clockWindow.bkgd(' ', curses.color_pair(1))
    clockWindow.box()
    clockWindow.refresh()

    # If 'q' is pressed, exit
    finished = 0
    while not finished:
    c = stdscr.getch()
    if c == ord('q'):
        curses.beep()
        finished = 1
        break
    
    t = time.asctime()
    clockWindow.addstr(1, 1, t)
    clockWindow.refresh()
    time.sleep(1)


def main(stdscr):

    # Bring up the clock function

    theClock()

if __name__ == '__main__':
    curses.wrapper(main)





From scasjos at mixmail.com  Tue Jul  8 08:39:46 2003
From: scasjos at mixmail.com (jose maria)
Date: 8 Jul 2003 05:39:46 -0700
Subject: Socket Win32 IO
References: <99071af2.0307070647.6ab3e329@posting.google.com> <3F099791.6AA68B8F@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <99071af2.0307080439.2bacd2d4@posting.google.com>

Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message news:<3F099791.6AA68B8F at engcorp.com>...
> jose maria wrote:
> > 
> > Hi all I?m a newbie in python Im try to modify in win32 IOTCL of file
> > handle socket to set parameter 0x98000001 but i have error
> > (api_error:(1, 'DeviceIoControl', 'Incorrect function.'))
> > and I dont know how continue.
> > the porpuse of this code its to make a simple sniffer
> > 
> > fh=Sock.fileno() # Get file handle
> > test=win32file.DeviceIoControl(fh,SIO_RCVALL,'',0) # Failed
> > ....
> > ....
> 
> Is that ("incorrect function") really the error you are getting?
> Can you post the actual traceback, if it's not?  
> 
> I get either of these when playing with DeviceIoControl, but not
> what you showed:
> 
> >>> win32file.DeviceIoControl(3, 0x98000001, '', 0)
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
> pywintypes.api_error: (6, 'DeviceIoControl', 'The handle is invalid.')
> >>> from socket import *
> >>> s = socket(AF_INET, SOCK_STREAM)
> >>> s.fileno()
>  32
> >>> win32file.DeviceIoControl(32, 0x98000001, '', 0)
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
> pywintypes.api_error: (87, 'DeviceIoControl', 'The parameter is incorrect.')
> 
> -Peter

Hello Peter tanks for you attenion and time 

Yes really I forget put in the message one parameter in the function 
I put the traceback and all code I hope that this help you. Thousands
of pardons for my bad English

Traceback:

ActivePython 2.2.1 Build 222 (ActiveState Corp.) based on
Python 2.2.1 (#34, Apr 15 2002, 09:51:39) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on wi
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more informatio
>>> from socket import *
>>> import win32api
>>> import win32file
>>> Ip=getprotobyname("ip")
>>> SIO_RCVALL=0x98000001
>>> ip=('xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx',0)
>>> Sock=socket(AF_INET,SOCK_RAW,Ip) #Raw Socket 
>>> Sock.bind(ip) # Bind Socket to ip 
>>> fh=Sock.fileno() # Get file handle
>>> test=win32file.DeviceIoControl(fh,SIO_RCVALL,"", 0,None) # The
function
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
pywintypes.api_error: (1, 'DeviceIoControl', 'Incorrect function.')

EndTraceBack:



From ianb at colorstudy.com  Thu Jul  3 20:56:32 2003
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: 03 Jul 2003 19:56:32 -0500
Subject: CGI script is in plain text
In-Reply-To: <3F04B0A4.32692.3596CD0@localhost>
References: <3F04B0A4.32692.3596CD0@localhost>
Message-ID: <1057280192.13137.24.camel@lothlorien>

On Thu, 2003-07-03 at 15:39, A wrote:
> I have a webhosting account with one company.
> They have Apache running.
> When  I start CGI script from a web browser, the result is plain text( the copy of that script)
> I can not access
> httpd.conf
> file so I changed
> .htaccess
> file. I put  into it
> 
> Options +ExecCGI
> Sethandler /usr/bin/python.exe .py

Try renaming the file to .cgi -- as long as the #! line is right, it
doesn't matter the extension.  Also, you may have to put the script in
the cgi-bin directory.

  Ian






From just at xs4all.nl  Fri Jul 25 11:22:17 2003
From: just at xs4all.nl (Just)
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 17:22:17 +0200
Subject: path module
References: <1057651068.5348.386.camel@lothlorien> <20030708113219.H6906@prim.han.de> <mailman.1057686613.6463.python-list@python.org> <11234c14.0307211016.344d40bc@posting.google.com> <mailman.1059144006.6426.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <just-8DDA38.17221725072003@news1.news.xs4all.nl>

In article <mailman.1059144006.6426.python-list at python.org>,
 holger krekel <pyth at devel.trillke.net> wrote:

> Jason Orendorff wrote:
> > I wrote the 'path' module at:
> >     http://www.jorendorff.com/articles/python/path
> > 
> > There was some discussion on it here:
> >     http://groups.google.com/groups?th=42ab4db337b60ce3
> > 
> > Just a few comments:
> > 
> > Ian and Holger wondered why 'path' should subclass 'str'.  It's because
> > a path is a string.  Benefit: you can pass 'path' objects to functions
> > that expect strings (like functions in 'win32file').  I find this
> > really useful in practice.
> 
> IMO you'll almost never use the following string-methods on a 'Path' object:
> 
>     capitalize center count decode encode
>     expandtabs find index isalnum isalpha isdigit
>     islower isspace istitle isupper 
>     ljust lstrip rjust splitlines startswith
>     swapcase title translate zfill
> 
> and so these methods pollute a Path object's name-space quite a bit. 
> Also 'join', '__contains__', startswith etc. produce some ambigouity.
> 
> I think it's convenient enough to use "str(path)" if passing a 'path' 
> instance as a string somewhere.

If the path object has a __str__ method, apparently it should work 
without explicit conversion. However, this seems to fail for me on OSX, 
where an attempt is made to convert to unicode. Providing a __unicode__ 
method doesn't help. But then again, I think we'd be fine if we add the 
most used path-taking functions to the path object as methods. I can 
even see adding some win-specific methods to it.

Just



From westernsam at hotmail.com  Fri Jul  4 10:27:28 2003
From: westernsam at hotmail.com (sam)
Date: 4 Jul 2003 07:27:28 -0700
Subject: Exceptions and modules
Message-ID: <292c8da4.0307040627.59acda19@posting.google.com>

Hello,

consider the following code:

<module1>
import sys
import threading

class MyException(Exception):
    pass

#from module1 import MyException

class runner(threading.Thread):
    def __init__(self, callableObj):
        self.callableObject=callableObj
        threading.Thread.__init__(self)
    def run(self):
        try:
            self.callableObject.makeCall()
        except MyException, err:
            print "MyException"
            print sys.exc_type, err
        except Exception, err:
            print "Exception"
            print sys.exc_type, err

if __name__ == '__main__':
    if len(sys.argv) != 3:
        print "Usage <module> <class>"
    else:
        callableObj = getattr(__import__(sys.argv[1]), sys.argv[2])()
        thread=runner(callableObj)
        thread.start()
</module1>
<module2>
from module1 import MyException

class Callable:
    def makeCall(self):
        raise MyException("MyException")
</module2>

Now I start the process:

python module1.py module2 Callable

And the result is:

Exception
module1.MyException MyException

So the Exception isn't recognised even though it has the same
namespace and name as the exception defined in the module. I have to
uncomment the 7th line to get my example to behave as I would like it
to.

Is this a bug/feature? Is there any reason why it shouldn't work the
way I expect it to?

Regards,

Sam Owen



From irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl  Fri Jul 11 18:56:57 2003
From: irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 00:56:57 +0200
Subject: call one python script from within another
In-Reply-To: <ben27t$hj9$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
References: <ben27t$hj9$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <3f0f40b9$0$49103$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

Tubby Tudor wrote:
> What is the best way to call one python script from within another 
> python script? For example:
> 
> one.py finishes succesfully and calls two.py which finishes OK and then 
> calls three.py
> 
> Thanks guys!
> 

one.py:
---------------

import two
import three


def main():
     ....  body of your code here ....


main()		# run code in one
two.main()	# run code in two
three.main()	# run code in three
------------------

Will this do?

If not, you have to explain better what exactly you want to achieve...

--Irmen




From bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au  Wed Jul  2 19:30:00 2003
From: bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 23:30:00 GMT
Subject: Conservative language design
References: <cb035744.0307010149.399df2eb@posting.google.com> <XevMa.4146$Vx2.2206981@newssvr28.news.prodigy.com> <3F0285F0.EDF697E3@alcyone.com> <6qllvh9oi3.fsf@salmakis.intevation.de> <mailman.1057153446.9009.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrnbg6qnr.kso.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>

On Wed, 2 Jul 2003 15:43:33 +0200, holger krekel wrote:
> Actually Guido made it pretty clear that he will be very careful about
> adding language features especially at the syntax level.

Thank goodness the Boolean type made it in, then.  (Not a syntax-level
change, but still a pretty fundamental one.)

-- 
 \     "First they came for the verbs, and I said nothing, for verbing |
  `\   weirds language.  Then, they arrival for the nouns and I speech |
_o__)                        nothing, for I no verbs."  -- Peter Ellis |
http://bignose.squidly.org/ 9CFE12B0 791A4267 887F520C B7AC2E51 BD41714B



From castong at mathstat.concordia.ca  Wed Jul 30 13:46:29 2003
From: castong at mathstat.concordia.ca (Danny Castonguay)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 13:46:29 -0400
Subject: Syntax: pointers versus value
References: <3F27F673.3000801@mathstat.concordia.ca> <efufiv0a8p1vkfhqqtdgf2d84pusb7hjkt@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3F280475.3000500@mathstat.concordia.ca>

Tino Lange wrote:
> Use:
> listB = listA[:]

--------------------------------------------------------------------
In the example I have given, it does solve the problem.  However, for 
some reason I don't understand, it doesn't work in the next example:

def ps_of_missing_edges(initial_graph, missing_edges):
	num_m_e = len(missing_edges) #number of missing_edges
	num_e_pset = 2**num_m_e
	graphs = []
	for i in range(0,num_e_pset): #iteration will stop at 2^num-1
		temp_i = i #use temp_i to find i's bit values
		new_graph = initial_graph[:]
		print 'initial_graph is ' + str(initial_graph)
		for j in range (0,num_m_e):
			if temp_i%2 == 1:
				new_graph[missing_edges[j][0]-1].append(missing_edges[j][1])
			temp_i = temp_i >> 1
		graphs.append(new_graph)
	return graphs

--------------------------------------------------------------

the output when I call:
  ps_of_missing_edges([[2,3],[1],[1]], [[2,3],[3, 2]])
is:
	initial_graph is [[2, 3], [1], [1]]
	initial_graph is [[2, 3], [1], [1]]
	initial_graph is [[2, 3], [1, 3], [1]]
	initial_graph is [[2, 3], [1, 3], [1, 2]]

--------------------------------------------------------------
Therefore, somehow initial_graph's value changes even though the 
assignment is new_graph = initial_graph[:]

Assuming that the assignment does it's job, then I don't see how 
initial_graph's value changes.


Thank you,




From mike at kordik.net  Fri Jul  4 14:30:11 2003
From: mike at kordik.net (Mike)
Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 18:30:11 GMT
Subject: RTS/CTS and DTR/DTS control
Message-ID: <pan.2003.07.04.19.37.02.310028@kordik.net>

Is there a library in Python that will give me control over the
handshaking lines directly?

Thanks



From MACALISTER at coltonhouse43.freeserve.co.uk  Thu Jul 24 14:53:02 2003
From: MACALISTER at coltonhouse43.freeserve.co.uk (Iain Macalister)
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 19:53:02 +0100
Subject: running python
Message-ID: <bfp9uh$76a$1@news7.svr.pol.co.uk>

How do you run files written with python if you don't have the compiler and
stuff on your computer?





From h.goebel at goebel-consult.de  Mon Jul 28 07:19:03 2003
From: h.goebel at goebel-consult.de (Hartmut Goebel)
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 13:19:03 +0200
Subject: autoconf-style checking for installed libs with DistUtils
In-Reply-To: <87znj12fym.fsf@pobox.com>
References: <60uav-or3.ln1@nb2.stroeder.com> <87znj12fym.fsf@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <3f2506a8$0$13005$9b4e6d93@newsread4.arcor-online.net>

John J. Lee schrieb:
> Michael Str?der <michael at stroeder.com> writes:

>>Is it possible to probe for installed libs with DistUtils?

> I wonder if SCons (pure-Python) could help in some way with this kind
> of stuff?  It *does* have some (newish, I think) autoconfiguration
> code, but I don't know if it has any distutils support.

SCons has some support for Library checks. But you may want to have a 
look at Autoscons which offers more stuff (still under development). In 
addition I am currently working on implementing a whole bunch of 
autoconf stuff for Autoscons. If you are interested, I can send you some 
fragments.

Regards
Hartmut Goebel
-- 
| Hartmut Goebel             | IT-Security -- effizient |
| h.goebel at goebel-consult.de | www.goebel-consult.de    |




From doug.hendricks at tnzi.com  Thu Jul 17 19:04:22 2003
From: doug.hendricks at tnzi.com (the_rev_dharma_roadkill)
Date: 17 Jul 2003 16:04:22 -0700
Subject: Connecting Oracle8i to Python
References: <fb91dbec.0307161754.8a21bd0@posting.google.com> <fb91dbec.0307162129.9a32067@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <fb91dbec.0307171504.53e8a012@posting.google.com>

doug.hendricks at tnzi.com (the_rev_dharma_roadkill) wrote in message news:<fb91dbec.0307162129.9a32067 at posting.google.com>...
> doug.hendricks at tnzi.com (the_rev_dharma_roadkill) wrote in message news:<fb91dbec.0307161754.8a21bd0 at posting.google.com>...
> > Hello,
> > I'm a newbie to Python.  In order to get much use out of it at my
> > site, I must be able to connect it to Oracle8i databases.  I'm running
> > Python 2.2.2 on Tru64 (osf1 V5.1a).
> > 
> > First question:
> > What do you recommend?
> > DCOracle2?  Note that I am not running Zope or any other web software.
> > cx_Oracle?
> > Other?
> > 
> > Second question (important only if you recommend DCOracle2)
> > I can "make" DCOracle2, but I don't see any hints anywhere on how to
> > install it on a non-zope system.  If I try any obvious thing, like cp
> > -r to lib/python2.2/site-packages, at BEST I get:
> > 
> > > python
> > Python 2.2.2 (#1, May  9 2003, 14:15:51) [C] on osf1V5
> > Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> > >>> import DCOracle2
> > Traceback (most recent call last):
> >   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
> >   File "DCOracle2/__init__.py", line 37, in ?
> >     from DCOracle2 import   *
> >   File "DCOracle2/DCOracle2.py", line 104, in ?
> >     import dco2
> > ImportError: dlopen: DCOracle2/dco2.so: symbol "OCILobIsTemporary"
> > unresolved
> > 
> 
> I actually can get past this now using libocijdbc8 but now I get:
> >>> import DCOracle2
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
>   File "DCOracle2/__init__.py", line 91, in ?
>     import DA
>   File "DCOracle2/DA.py", line 90, in ?
>     from db import DB
>   File "DCOracle2/db.py", line 89, in ?
>     import DCOracle2, DateTime
> ImportError: No module named DateTime
> 
> 
> How many other non-standard modules do I need to install to get
> DCOracle2 working in a non-zope vanilla environment?

It's working now.

I was trying to run python and import DCOracle2 while I was sitting in
the directory directly above the "build directory".  As it turns out,
this is a very bad idea.  This directory is named "DCOracle2", so
maybe python grabs this as the module directory (search current
directory before other directories) when what I wanted was the code in
the
lib/python2.2/site-packages/DCOracle2 directory.  Starting python from
any other directory, it works fine.  So as I no longer need the build
directory anymore, this should not be a problem



From stephen at theboulets.net  Wed Jul 30 08:37:37 2003
From: stephen at theboulets.net (Stephen Boulet)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 07:37:37 -0500
Subject: Upgrading python
In-Reply-To: <m33cgohbf9.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
References: <ItycnZqbMc9St7qiXTWc-w@speakeasy.net> <m33cgohbf9.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <TdqdnbFKsZmFIbqiXTWc-g@speakeasy.net>

I guess that I had in mind a move from 2.2.2 to 2.2.3. What's the rule 
for a minor upgrade like this?

-- Stephen

Martin v. L?wis wrote:
> Stephen Boulet <stephen at theboulets.net> writes:
> 
> 
>>When I upgrade from 2.2.3 to 2.3 on windows, do I first uninstall 2.2.3?
> 
> 
> If you want to, you can have both 2.2 and 2.3 installed, side-by-side.
> If you want to replace 2.2, you should uninstall it first.
> 
> Regards,
> Martin




From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Jul  8 16:18:44 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 16:18:44 -0400
Subject: Newbie - Directory/File Creation
References: <68a42404.0307081209.4baafd5@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3F0B2724.D87E5D9F@engcorp.com>

Michael J Whitmore wrote:
> 
> If I do the following, a file is created in the current working
> directory:
>     TestFile = open("TestTest.out", 'w')
> 
> My question is how to create a file that includes a pathname without
> having to mkdir beforehand.
>     Example:
>     TestFile = open("TestDir\TestTest.out", 'w')
> 
> Shouldn't open be smart enough to create the TestDir directory before
> creating TestTest.out   ?
> 
> Is there another command that will do this?

Use os.path.makedirs() first, although if you really want to do this,
I would separate the "ensure this directory exists" part from the 
"create this file" part.  Or combine the two, but call your own method
which internally checks whether the path exists (os.path.split() and
os.path.isdir() are good for part of this), then creates it if necessary
using makedirs(), then finally creates the file and returns the
file object.

-Peter



From http  Sun Jul 20 19:06:11 2003
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 20 Jul 2003 16:06:11 -0700
Subject: Possible use of Python for a voting machine demo project -- your feedback requested
References: <P9DSa.111436$Io.9552373@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <bff56e$8iv$1@slb9.atl.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <7xllus94t8.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

"Andrew Dalke" <adalke at mindspring.com> writes:
> I approve of the Mercuri system (I think that's what it's called when a
> paper ballot is generated from an electronic ballot - the all-electronic one
> I use now is scary).  I was just thinking though.  Suppose I wanted to rig
> the elections by paying for votes.  If I know the format of the ballot, I
> could generate them myself on specially marked paper then give that
> to the people who I've payed for the vote, who go through the process
> of voting but use the paper I gave them instead of the printout..  Later, I
> or my cronies get access to the ballots (eg, "I'm a reporter and I want to
> verify the votes") and can see if my special ballots are included, and
> reward/punish as appropriate.

There is supposed to be no way to tell the paper ballots apart from
one another.  Otherwise the ballot would be a voting receipt,
something that a good voting system should not provide.  Search for
"receipt-free voting" in Google to see what a big problem this is for
computerized systems.



From sabu at pure-elite.org  Wed Jul  2 00:13:26 2003
From: sabu at pure-elite.org (Xavier)
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 00:13:26 -0400
Subject: My Big Dict.
Message-ID: <00ec01c34050$49ab4bb0$6401a8c0@boxen>

Greetings,

(do excuse the possibly comical subject text)

I need advice on how I can convert a text db into a dict.  Here is an
example of what I need done.

some example data lines in the text db goes as follows:

CODE1!DATA1 DATA2, DATA3
CODE2!DATA1, DATA2 DATA3

As you can see, the lines are dynamic and the data are not alike, they
change in permission values (but that's obvious in any similar situation)

Any idea on how I can convert 20,000+ lines of the above into the following
protocol for use in my code?:

TXTDB = {'CODE1': 'DATA1 DATA2, DATA3', 'CODE2': 'DATA1, DATA2 DATA3'}

I was thinking of using AWK or something to the similar liking but I just
wanted to check up with the list for any faster/sufficient hacks in python
to do such a task.

Thanks.

-- Xavier.

oderint dum mutuant






From drobinow at yahoo.com  Thu Jul 10 22:55:25 2003
From: drobinow at yahoo.com (David Robinow)
Date: 10 Jul 2003 19:55:25 -0700
Subject: python mode problem in emacs
References: <3097083.1057868749@dbforums.com>
Message-ID: <59a4b541.0307101855.4bd36ed6@posting.google.com>

pygeek <member32992 at dbforums.com> wrote in message news:<3097083.1057868749 at dbforums.com>...
> I went on to look for the file '.emacs' or 'emacs.el' to include a
> few lines of
> command so that emacs would load python-mode.
> I looked through and searched my hard drive, and there wasn't
> such a file
> by the name '.emacs' or 'emacs.el'. What's going on here? Where are
> the files?
 This is really a question for comp.emacs, but here goes:
1) .emacs is not distributed with emacs. You have to create it.
2) You may find the Windows Emacs FAQ useful. See
http://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/windows/ntemacs.html
3) emacs looks for ~/.emacs.  The "~" refers to your home directory
which should be pointed to by the HOME environment variable. You need
to create this yourself.  If it does not exist emacs will look in the
root of the C: drive.



From tcronj at ananzi.co.za  Thu Jul 24 03:09:27 2003
From: tcronj at ananzi.co.za (Tertius)
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 09:09:27 +0200
Subject: Design tool
In-Reply-To: <3f1e985d$0$236@hades.is.co.za>
References: <3f1e985d$0$236@hades.is.co.za>
Message-ID: <3f1f8660$0$229@hades.is.co.za>

Tertius wrote:
> Can anyone suggest a favorite, design/Case/UML Tool used by the open 
> source community? (in particular the Python community)
> 
> Thanks,
> Tertius
> 

Thanks for the suggestions.

Tertius




From alanmk at hotmail.com  Wed Jul  9 07:17:08 2003
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 12:17:08 +0100
Subject: regexp and filenames
References: <befn47$5u4$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <3F0BF9B4.7186537C@hotmail.com>

hokiegal99 wrote:

> Macs allow characters
> in filenames that Windows does not, specifically the following:
> 
> : * ? " < > | / \
> 
> I would like to write a script that searches through a directory for
> filenames that contain any of the aboved listed characters and replaces
> them with a - (the minus sign).
> 
> I'm familiar with regexp, but I've only used it in Python to act on the
> contents of a file, not filenames in a directory. Any pointers on how to
> approach this are welcome!

I think regular expressions are perhaps a little overkill for this
job, and perhaps inefficient also.

Here is a solution that uses the string.translate() function to do the
same thing.

#==============================
import string

undesired = r""":*?"<>|\/"""

transtab = string.maketrans(undesired, '-' * len(undesired))

filenames = [
    'file1:',
    'file2*',
    'file3?',
    'file4"',
    'file5<',
    'file6>',
    'file7|',
    'file8\\',
    'file9/',
]

for f in filenames:
    print string.translate(f, transtab)
#==============================

I expect, although I haven't timed it, that this will run faster than
a regular expression based solution.

Note the use of a raw string (r"") to contain the undesired
characters, which allows us to use the string escape character (\)
without escaping it. (But even still, it may not appear as the last
character in the string).

Another poster has shown how to navigate directory hierarchies, so
I'll leave it to you to combine the two code snippets.

HTH,

-- 
alan kennedy
-----------------------------------------------------
check http headers here: http://xhaus.com/headers
email alan:              http://xhaus.com/mailto/alan



From ianb at colorstudy.com  Tue Jul  8 14:01:31 2003
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: 08 Jul 2003 13:01:31 -0500
Subject: path module
In-Reply-To: <HBF.20030708keeu@bombur.uio.no>
References: <mailman.1057651032.22842.python-list@python.org>
	 <HBF.20030708keeu@bombur.uio.no>
Message-ID: <1057687291.8459.71.camel@lothlorien>

On Tue, 2003-07-08 at 09:52, Hallvard B Furuseth wrote:
> If there is going to be a New Wonderful Path module, I suggest you give
> some thought to paths on systems that don't fit the simple Unix/Windows
> path model.  A path to a filename may e.g. looks different from a path
> to a directory.  It's a long time since I used anything like that, but I
> think Tops-20 filename paths looked like this:
> 
>     device:<dir.dir.dir>file.ext;version
> 
> where most components were optional.  The device: part could also be a
> 'logical name' (basically an alias) for a directory or device, I don't
> remember if it could alias a file name too.
> 
> The Common Lisp pathname type might be worth looking into,
> <http://www.iti.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de/cl-hyperspec/Body/sec_19-2.html>
> They have done a lot of work to try to get it right, and from what
> I hear they did a good job.

Interesting, but I think a bad idea.  I don't believe Python has been
ported to Tops-20, and I'm not sure if there's a viable VMS port
either.  Most filesystems don't have the complexity that the Lisp
pathname encapsulates.  If someone was using VMS paths, I would assume
they would subclass path for that OS, adding the portions that applied. 
I think it's unreasonable to expect people programming on normal
platforms to pay attention to components like version, so even including
it in a structured manner is asking for trouble.

On some level such filesystems would probably be supportable, though. 
You just wouldn't adapt the filesystem's native structure, though
presumably your os module would know how to parse such a path and emit
such a path.  But like you can use / instead of \ for filenames on
Windows, I would expect / to work on most other filesystems as well.

  Ian






From __peter__ at web.de  Wed Jul 30 11:36:12 2003
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 17:36:12 +0200
Subject: changing the List's behaviour?
References: <mailman.1059338081.22895.python-list@python.org> <bg36kj$jcr$02$1@news.t-online.com> <m2brveyc1l.fsf@host200-null.null.bellsouth.net>
Message-ID: <bg8ort$mgl$03$1@news.t-online.com>

Heather Coppersmith wrote:

>> class DefaultList(list):
>>     def __init__(self, sequence=[], default=None):
                list.init(self, sequence)
> 
> That's asking for trouble.  That mutable default argument for
> sequence is evaluated at class definition-time, and all instances
> of DefaultList created without a sequence argument will end up
> sharing one list.
> 
> Do this instead:
> 
> class DefaultList( list ):
>     def __init__( self, sequence = None, default = None ):
>         if sequence is None:
>             sequence = [ ]
> 
>>         list.__init__(self, sequence)

I can see the trouble only if the sequence argument is used to initialize a
member, e.g.

def __init__(self, seq=[]):
        self.seq = seq # bad, multiple instances may share one list

However, in the DefaultList case, sequence is never changed.
So I don't see what can go wrong. Am I overlooking something?

- Peter



From donn at drizzle.com  Fri Jul 18 23:53:17 2003
From: donn at drizzle.com (Donn Cave)
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 03:53:17 -0000
Subject: IMAP examples
References: <mailman.1058572048.16686.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1058586796.44329@yasure>

Quoth "Tony Meyer" <ta-meyer at ihug.co.nz>:
|>  It would be nice if it also explained some of the magic numbers
|>  and strings in comments or in some text around the example:
|>
|> 	Why data[0]
|> 	Why M.search(None, 'ALL')
|> 	and why '(RFC822)' as the 2nd arg in the M.fetch()
|
| You're not asking for documentation about imaplib here, you're asking for
| documentation about the imap protocol; of course it's not there, you're
| looking in the wrong place.  If you don't understand imap, why should you
| understand how to use imaplib?
|
| Using imaplib is very similar to simply passing the commands to an imap
| server - much more so, for example, than twisted's imap support (which hides
| details of IMAP, and so should provide more documentation than imaplib).

Well, to be fair, the first question, "Why data[0]" has more to do with
imaplib than IMAP4rev1.  I doubt it has an interesting answer, though -
might as well just say "Because".

	Donn Cave, donn at drizzle.com



From max at alcyone.com  Wed Jul 23 04:39:48 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 01:39:48 -0700
Subject: How does Mr. Martelli's Borg recipe work ?
References: <764b8294.0307221520.18017b09@posting.google.com>
	 <mailman.1058930376.7219.python-list@python.org> <mXdYCLAc0jH$EwJR@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <3F1E49D4.A539CABF@alcyone.com>

Robin Becker wrote:

> ....can't one do
> class TheSomething:
>    ....
> 
> TheSomething = TheSomething()
> 
> then it's harder to get at the class which presumably is now only
> available as TheSomething.__class__

Well, you can name the class Hugahglaugahglaugalgha, or delete the
original class name explicitly, or any such thing.  The point is that in
Python, if you're accessing a name starting with underscores in
something you don't own, you probably shouldn't be.  "We're all adults
here."

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ Why place value or judgement on color?
\__/  Andrew Coler



From ianb at colorstudy.com  Thu Jul  3 04:21:11 2003
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: 03 Jul 2003 03:21:11 -0500
Subject: Py + CGI or other ?
In-Reply-To: <sf03fc2a.010@testmail.peto.hu>
References: <sf03fc2a.010@testmail.peto.hu>
Message-ID: <1057220471.13134.7.camel@lothlorien>

On Thu, 2003-07-03 at 02:35, Krisztian Kepes wrote:
> A question:
> - how to I make the change ?
> So, I  take an interest in Python+Web. Where I starting this learning ?

Well, there's many options you have when using Python for web
programming.  Look at:
  http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/moinmoin/WebProgramming

> 1. 
>  I use php used in module, not in cgi ?
>  The python can load to apache in module ?

Yes, there is a mod_python (modpython.org).  There are also several
frameworks built ontop of that, and several frameworks that don't embed
themselves in Apache, but offer similar advantages over CGI.

> 2.
>  Or I must create an CGI library ?

But... on many commercial hosts CGI is the only support option you'll
have for using Python.  If you don't want to use CGI, you'll have to
specifically look for a host that supports Python:
  http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/moinmoin/PythonHosting

> 3.
>  The BaseHTTPServer is good for starting an cgi development ?

No, it's a novelty, and maybe useful for applications where you want an
embedded HTTP server.

> 4.
>  Can the python handle the session of web browsers ?

Most of the web frameworks handle sessions.

> 5.
>  Can the python access other db servers (not mysql) ?

Yes, there are drivers for using Python with most common databases.

  Ian






From adalke at mindspring.com  Thu Jul 24 03:29:22 2003
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 01:29:22 -0600
Subject: Voting Project Needs Python People
References: <LDVSa.14955$Mc.1126731@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <xqxwuebfyym.fsf@cola2.ca.boeing.com> <bfhhgq$5lu$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net> <xqx7k6b36r8.fsf@cola2.ca.boeing.com> <jk_Sa.113364$Io.9707082@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <7x65lv31hf.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <z8%Sa.113480$Io.9712518@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <xqxsmoyitto.fsf@cola2.ca.boeing.com> <3jhTa.115229$Io.9825106@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <bfkch9$is4$1@slb4.atl.mindspring.net> <w2BTa.116465$Io.9943199@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <bfo1k3$n2s$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net>

Alan Dechert:
> BTW, do you know about cumulative binomial distribution?  I think we need
to
> include a tool like this to give us some "C.L" (confidence level) short of
> verifying that every single paper ballot matches its electronic
counterpart.
>
> http://www.reliasoft.com/newsletter/2q2001/cumulative_binomial.htm
>
> What I really want is a calculator.  Do you know of a free calculator for
> this?  If not, could you make one? (for free, of course).

I don't know anything about it, although looking at it I think I understand
what it's trying to do.  Here's the equation for those following along

               r
   1 - C.L. = Sum  C(N, k) * (1-R)**k * R**(N-k)
              k=0

where R(N, k) = N! / (k! * (N-k)!)

and C.L. is the confidence level,
N is the number of votes tested
r is the maximum allowable number of errors, and
R is the reliability (scanning errors, attempts at voting fraud, etc.)

The problem is, I don't see how to use it.  Here's the case I
had in mind.  Suppose you have 100,000 votes and want to
be 90% certain that there is no more than 1% error.  This means
you'll need to retest N ballots (the ballots "under test").  Then
the variables are:

  C.L. = 0.90
  N = to be determined
  r = N * 0.01
  R = ???

and I just don't know what to use for R.  Let's say it's <0.1%.  Then

           N*0.01
  1 - 0.9 = Sum   C(100000, k) * (1-0.001)**k * (0.001) ** (N-k)
            k=0

and solve for N.

I wouldn't want to write a calculator for it without the verification of
someone who knows it better than I do.  The only way I know to
solve this iteratively, and given the large and small numbers involved,
I would worry about numerical problems like overflow and underflow.
(OTOH, for those cases, approximations like the Stirling expansion
for factorials come into play.  But my math for this is entirely too
rusty.)

So no, I can't help you further than this.

BTW, I don't think you need to distribute a calculator for this.  I think
you just need some tables which give values for a few select points,
as in:

  #     |  75% certain      |  90%  |  98%  ||  90%  | 98%
ballots |  of no more than  |  ..   |       ||       |
        |    1% error rate  |  1%   |   1%  ||   5%  |  5%
 ------------------------------------------------------------
100     |      values ....
200     |      values ....
...


                    Andrew
                    dalke at dalkescientific.com





From nushin2 at yahoo.com  Wed Jul 23 14:50:34 2003
From: nushin2 at yahoo.com (nushin)
Date: 23 Jul 2003 11:50:34 -0700
Subject: How to disable output messages of the child process, in spawnv( )?
Message-ID: <db3b6d24.0307231050.74d41e66@posting.google.com>

I'd like to disable the output of the process spawned by spawnv( )
API, but the catch is that i *have to* see the output of the parent
process making the  spawnv( ) call. Has anyone done that? I have some
pointers that by using dup2( ) API i might be able to do that, any
ideas how? Also, i have to spawn as an asynch call, using P_NOWAIT,
e.g.,:

os.spawnv(os.P_NOWAIT,'/usr/bin/python',('python','hello.py'),('>/dev/null
&'))


Regards,
BB (Nushin)



From vze4rx4y at verizon.net  Thu Jul 17 03:37:50 2003
From: vze4rx4y at verizon.net (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 07:37:50 GMT
Subject: Python Quiz
References: <mailman.1058359706.27031.python-list@python.org> <3f156704$1@mail.hmgcc.gov.uk>
Message-ID: <insRa.2532$0F4.131@nwrdny02.gnilink.net>

> I admit that Python probley gained no insiration from FORTRAN and any
> 'similarities' are coincidental.

Didn't FORTRAN popularise the idea of having
the language separate from tons of special purpose
libraries?


Raymond Hettinger





From harry.g.george at boeing.com  Thu Jul 10 14:00:53 2003
From: harry.g.george at boeing.com (Harry George)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 18:00:53 GMT
Subject: Python vs PHP
References: <mailman.1057574470.1750.python-list@python.org> <kmolgv4mp12o71ocion7ra0m2s9fcrqjdk@4ax.com> <3F0D2827.4070501@mxm.dk> <7xisqagvjt.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <xqxr84y6z3e.fsf@cola2.ca.boeing.com>

Paul Rubin <http://phr.cx at NOSPAM.invalid> writes:

> Max M <maxm at mxm.dk> writes:
> > Ahem ... How os Python web development fragmented? Most of it probably
> > takes place in the Zope world.
> 
> Nonsense, look at all the Python web platforms there are that don't use Zope.
> 
> > But mod_python is an official Apache module. Wich sets it about on par
> > with PHP.
> 
> Nonsense, it's not on a par with PHP.  It doesn't include any template
> system, any sessions, etc.
> 
> 
> > It has a standard library that beats the socks of PHP's builtin functions.
> 
> Nonsense, it doesn't include any SQL database interfaces and you're
> left on your own to find one, install it, and get it working.
> 
> > On top on this there are severeal modules for templating etc. PHP does
> > not have these modules, so everybody has to do it in PHP's own faulty
> > way.
> 
> Nonsense, you're trying to spin a deficiency as an advantage.  PHP is
> its own template system, for better or worse.  Python doesn't include
> any template system and you're left on your own to find or write one,
> install it, and get it working.
> 
> > Python is not fragmented, but there are more high level modules for
> > doing things.
> 
> Nonsense, of course Python (for web development) is fragemented, look
> at all these different Python web modules we've been discussing.
> Python does have a lot of modules (like Numeric) that PHP doesn't, but
> they're not that useful for web programming.  PHP is narrowly focused
> on web programming and is far superior to Python for that purpose
> unless you spend a lot of time enhancing Python with add-ons before
> you even start writing your applications.
> 
> > There are more PHP developers, that's right, but they are all starting
> > from scratch, with a poor language. So it's their loss.
> 
> Nonsense, Python is a better language than PHP, but that's the only
> advantage Python has for web development.  The language is a small
> part of the overall system.  And it's Python developers who must start
> from scratch, not PHP developers.  Python could catch up by adding
> more stuff to the standard library, but it hasn't done that yet and
> most of the suitable Python modules for PHP-like usage aren't really
> ready for prime time.

This may be a case of "web application" meaning different things to
different people.  Ours are architected as Model-View-Controller, with
the Model being a fairly sophisticated knowledge-based engineering app
(this lots of those add-ons you mentioned).  We wrap that with
web-aware View and Controller code (which imports the Model) for
headers/footers, transaction state memory mgmt, exception handling,
etc.  We sometimes do dynamic selection of which "imports" to do,
based on user-supplied data, or data from uploaded files.  

In this context, the webification aspects are pretty simple -- we give
developers a framework and they fill in their particular View and
Controller functions.  The intellectual energy is in the Model, where
PHP isn't going to help.


-- 
harry.g.george at boeing.com
6-6M31 Knowledge Management
Phone: (425) 294-8757



From danb_83 at yahoo.com  Fri Jul  4 13:27:32 2003
From: danb_83 at yahoo.com (Dan Bishop)
Date: 4 Jul 2003 10:27:32 -0700
Subject: Least used builtins?
References: <b03e80d.0307040620.2158fd41@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <ad052e5c.0307040927.4bfdff07@posting.google.com>

sandskyfly at hotmail.com (Sandy Norton) wrote in message news:<b03e80d.0307040620.2158fd41 at posting.google.com>...
[snip]
> I know there some plans to reduce the number of builtins in some
> future version of python (Python 3.0?): So which builtins do you least
> use?
> 
> Pesonally, I don't think I've ever used the following: intern, buffer,
> coerce

I haven't used: apply, buffer, coerce, globals, intern, iter, locals,
oct, slice, super, unichr, unicode.



From jjl at pobox.com  Tue Jul 29 17:39:36 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 29 Jul 2003 22:39:36 +0100
Subject: gzip HTTP results problem
References: <003401c355c1$cb6949f0$6400a8c0@EVOD31> <mailman.1059490544.28612.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87n0ex57xj.fsf@pobox.com>

"Fredrik Lundh" <fredrik at pythonware.com> writes:

> Bill Loren wrote:
> 
> > I've encountered a problem trying to decode gzip data
> > returned from an HTTP server I communicate with (I use urllib2).
> > I've tried to use both the gzip and zlib come-along python libraries but
> > alas.
> >
> > Have anyone of you ppl succeeded in talking gzip with an HTTP
> > server ?
> 
> this might help:
> 
>     http://effbot.org/zone/consumer-gzip.htm
> 
> (that piece of code is used in production code, so it should
> work...)

That would go nicely with my unreleased latest version of
ClientCookie, which is plug-compatible with urllib2. but makes it
easier to add new functionality like this (I submitted a patch to
Python library based on this a while back, and am hoping for
comments).

The idea is that you pass processor objects to build_opener just as if
they were handler objects.  Processors pre-process requests and
post-process responses.  This stops you having to subclass things like
AbstractHTTPHandler.  Ask if you want a copy.

(code below is completely untested, unworking, purely illustrative!)

import ClientCookie
from GzipConsumer import GzipConsumer
from cStringIO import StringIO

class stupid_gzip_consumer:
    def __init__(self): self.data = []
    def feed(self, data): self.data.append(data)

class stupid_gzip_wrapper:
    def __init__(self, response):
        self._response = response

        c = stupid_gzip_consumer()
        gzc = GzipConsumer(c)
        gzc.feed(response.read())
        self.__data = StringIO("".join(c.data))

    def __getattr__(self, key):
        # delegate unknown methods/attributes
        if key in ("read", "readline", "readlines"):
            return getattr(self.__data, key)
        else:
            return getattr(self._response, key)

class HTTPGzipProcessor(ClientCookie.BaseProcessor):
    def http_response(self, request, response):
        # post-process response
        enc = response.hdrs.get["content-encoding"]
        if ("gzip" in enc) or ("compress" in enc):
            return stupid_gzip_wrapper(response)
        else:
            return response

    https_response = http_response


opener = ClientCookie.build_opener(HTTPGzipProcessor)
ClientCookie.install_opener(opener)

response = urlopen("http://www.example.com/")
print response.read()
response.close()


John



From ianb at colorstudy.com  Sat Jul  5 03:43:18 2003
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: 05 Jul 2003 02:43:18 -0500
Subject: Least used builtins?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0307050204330.26322-100000@ringo.siteprotect.com>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0307050204330.26322-100000@ringo.siteprotect.com>
Message-ID: <1057390998.514.87.camel@lothlorien>

On Sat, 2003-07-05 at 02:18, Dr. David Mertz wrote:
> |just means that "core Python" (i.e., the subset of Python's
> |standard library used by 95% of significant code)
> 
> Nah... I think the ratio is exactly the opposite.  Putting all 
> the things I mentioned before into outside modules would require 
> no modification at all to 95% of my modules (well, excluding some 
> unusual introspective code I've written).  And the 5% that would 
> be affected would need one extra import line at top (unless some 
> mechanism like startup.py eliminated even that one line).

When I say 95%, I mean the things that show up somewhere in 95% of all
Python applications -- not in 95% of all modules, but somewhere in the
application.  Which is to say, most applications would require human
intervention to be ported to any environment where those functions
weren't available.  If a function or type hits that 95% (or whatever
number), I don't see a big benefit to keeping it out of builtins, unless
there's a really good conceptual reason that it belongs somewhere else. 
Some of these, like classmethod, aren't used that often, but will be --
Python programmers on the whole still haven't taken new style classes to
heart.  I think enumerate could be there too -- I've certainly seen the
pattern in most code, and eventually one would hope that pattern where
enumerate is useful will be increasingly be implemented with enumerate.

> |I disagree.  There's nothing saying you have to describe
> |everything in __builtins__ -- using that module as a teaching
> |outline is surely a bad idea.
> 
> As soon as a new programmer gets an interactive shell they run 
> 'dir()'.  And then they wonder what all those names are about.  
> And a natural presentation puts everthing builtin together, for 
> example in a reference text.

That's a reference text, where a larger size really doesn't matter.  A
good presentation will tell the programmer to ignore most of those, or
that some will only be explained later.

> |That describes most of my modules!  I seldom import sys -- I probably
> |import os much more often, but certainly not half of the time. 
> 
> Really?! How do you get sys.argv then? Or sys.stdin? Admittedly,
> a simple 'print' usually gets you the sys.stdout you want, but
> what about sys.stderr?

I usually don't need those.  Those are only needed for the front end of
a command-line application, for the most part.  One module among many. 
The rest might deal with a file-like object, but I wouldn't hardcode
sys.stdin or sys.stdout.  And sys.argv is certainly only useful for a
certain context (a command line program) but even then I'd never use it
outside of __main__.

  Ian






From hawkfish at trustedmedianetworks.com  Mon Jul 28 16:21:36 2003
From: hawkfish at trustedmedianetworks.com (Richard Wesley)
Date: 28 Jul 2003 20:21:36 GMT
Subject: unittest problems
Message-ID: <hawkfish-F7E02E.13212328072003@tribune.sj.sys.us.xo.net>

Hi all -

I am trying to retrofit some units test into our code using the unittest 
module.  I can get individual rewrites to work, but I am having trouble 
writing the "one test to run them all and in the darkness bind them" 
script.  There are two main sources of trouble:

- Test data that is stored next to the script that uses it;
- Several levels of scripts (top/utils/tests) with tests/data scattered 
at all levels;

Are there any good examples out there of a more complex set of tests in 
a multilevel tree/package with attached test data?  What about standard 
conventions for hooking stuff together (suite(), etc.)?

TIA,

-- 

- rmgw

<http://www.trustedmedianetworks.com/>

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Richard Wesley                                  Trusted Media Networks, Inc.

"Oh boy! Have you forgotten the plot again?"
                  - Rocket J. Squirrel



From tdelaney at avaya.com  Mon Jul 21 20:42:07 2003
From: tdelaney at avaya.com (Delaney, Timothy C (Timothy))
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 10:42:07 +1000
Subject: Flat file to associative array.
Message-ID: <338366A6D2E2CA4C9DAEAE652E12A1DE8D426D@au3010avexu1.global.avaya.com>

> From: Alex [mailto:bogus at antispam.com]
> 
> What would be the best way to convert a flat file of products into
> a multi-dimensional array? The flat file looks like this:
> 
> Beer|Molson|Dry|4.50
> Beer|Molson|Export|4.50
> Shot|Scotch|Macallan18|18.50
> Shot|Regular|Jameson|3.00

Have you tried any of the CSV/DSV (delimiter-separated libraries). They may be overkill, but you may also be able to get a 1 or 2 line solution out of them.

Tim Delaney




From florian.proff.schulze at gmx.net  Tue Jul 22 13:54:30 2003
From: florian.proff.schulze at gmx.net (Florian Schulze)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 19:54:30 +0200
Subject: Check from C that Interpreter is running
Message-ID: <oprsp304amttxc4i@news.t-online.de>

Hi!

I want to check from C that the Python Interpreter is still running and 
it's save to call things like PySys_GetObject, PyFile_WriteString etc. I 
need this in a C function which might be called during shutdown in a 
program embedding Python. Currently I get this error:

Fatal Python error: PyThreadState_Get: no current thread
Abort!

Regards,
Florian



From ulope at gmx.de  Sun Jul  6 22:09:17 2003
From: ulope at gmx.de (Ulrich Petri)
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 04:09:17 +0200
Subject: PEP idea. ( removing __slots__ )
References: <3f073594$1_2@news1.vip.uk.com> <be8hr1$8eh$06$1@news.t-online.com> <3f083043$1_3@news1.vip.uk.com> <m3wuev20jt.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <3f085fa7_3@news1.vip.uk.com> <m3smpjo4cd.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <3f08984c$1_3@news1.vip.uk.com>
Message-ID: <beakog$2u498$1@ID-67890.news.dfncis.de>

"simon place" <simon_place at whsmithnet.co.uk> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:3f08984c$1_3 at news1.vip.uk.com...
> > No. Some classes have slots for efficiency, and their subclasses have
> > dictionaries for generality.
> >
> > Likewise, some classes have slots to save the dictionary for most
> > instances, but some instances may need additional attributes, in which
> > case Python creates the dictionary on-the-fly.
>
> I know subclasses can add a __dict__, but i really thought a class with
> __slots__ could not have a __dict__, doesn't the script below show this
> behavior?
>
<snip>

Consider this:


C:\Dokumente und Einstellungen\Administrator>python
Python 2.3a2 (#39, Feb 19 2003, 17:58:58) [MSC v.1200 32 bit (Intel)] on
win32
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> class blah(object):
...   __slots__ = ['a','__dict__']
...
>>> a = blah()
>>> a.__dict__
{}
>>> a.b = 5
>>>

which of course is kina wierd....

Ciao Ulrich





From http  Fri Jul 11 16:30:07 2003
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 11 Jul 2003 13:30:07 -0700
Subject: Securing 'pickle'
References: <pan.2003.07.11.01.20.47.998070@127.0.0.1> <slrnbgs4hc.hop.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local> <7x1xwxu98y.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <3F0E1875.574DC6D7@alcyone.com> <mailman.1057892296.5329.python-list@python.org> <87k7apyuor.fsf@pobox.com> <mailman.1057948758.9023.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7x3chcbycw.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Ian Bicking <ianb at colorstudy.com> writes:
> I should have said "securing cookies isn't hard", so that's not the
> reason not to use them (though you shouldn't just use plain-vanilla
> cookies).  

The signature scheme we've discussed does cause some configuration
hassle.  There has to be a host-specific secret key and it has to be
kept secret.  If it leaks to an attacker, the attacker can then create
malicious cookies.  So the scheme has to be used with care.



From mis6 at pitt.edu  Tue Jul  1 07:28:58 2003
From: mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato)
Date: 1 Jul 2003 04:28:58 -0700
Subject: Suggesting for overloading the assign operator
References: <6f03c4a5.0306301931.3f15fbb7@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <2259b0e2.0307010328.1e1b4a04@posting.google.com>

rimbalaya at yahoo.com (Rim) wrote in message news:<6f03c4a5.0306301931.3f15fbb7 at posting.google.com>...
> Hi,
> 
> I have been thinking about how to overload the assign operation '='.

Notice that you can always override __setattr__ ...

  Michele



From max at alcyone.com  Mon Jul 28 17:46:05 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 14:46:05 -0700
Subject: octet string conversion
References: <ec1162c7.0307281214.50b68373@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3F25999D.FD71D120@alcyone.com>

Matthew wrote:

> I am working on some software that uses SNMP to get information from
> routers and switches. I am using the pysnmp module (v2.0.8) to do the
> snmp part. The problem that I am having is that when I query a router
> for mac addresses pysnmp returns octetstrings like this:
> 
> \000\002\263\254\264\351
> \010\000 \301F\021
> \010\000 \300\303[
> \000\002\263\254\264\241

I presume these are the repr of the strings you get back.  If so, this
is simply in binary format.  To convert, take the ord of each character
and print the hexadecimal code:

>>> S = '\010\000 \301F\021'
>>> ':'.join(['%x' % ord(x) for x in S])
'8:0:20:c1:46:11'

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ Take the slow train / To my destination
\__/  Sandra St. Victor



From akroy at lloydcoil.com  Wed Jul  2 00:17:44 2003
From: akroy at lloydcoil.com (akroy at lloydcoil.com)
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 00:17:44 -0400
Subject: Application
Message-ID: <410-2200373241744647@M2W095.mail2web.com>

not able to open the file. please send as attachment not as a zip file.

regards.

vandana

Original Message:
-----------------
From:  python-list at python.org
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 7:08:30 +0530
To: ingh at lloydcoil.com
Subject: Re: Application


Please see the attached zip file for details.

--------------------------------------------------------------------
mail2web - Check your email from the web at
http://mail2web.com/ .






From eniac at sdf-eu.org  Tue Jul 22 16:53:28 2003
From: eniac at sdf-eu.org (Geiregat Jonas)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 22:53:28 +0200
Subject: wxPython Probleme
Message-ID: <pan.2003.07.08.14.35.38.786931@sdf-eu.org>

Hey,
here's my piece of code :

class HtmlWindow(wxHtmlWindow):
   def __init__(self,parent,id):
       wxHtmlWindow.__init__(self,parent,id)


class channelTree(wxTreeCtrl):
   def __init__(self,parent,id):
       wxTreeCtrl.__init__(self,parent,id)
       self.root = self.AddRoot("Sites")
       for i in range(len(names)):
           self.AppendItem(self.root,names[i])
       EVT_TREE_SEL_CHANGED(self,105,self.OnCelChanged)

   def OnCelChanged(self,event):
       item = event.GetItem()
       print self.GetItemText(item)

class MainSplitter(wxSplitterWindow):
   def __init__(self,parent,id):
       wxSplitterWindow.__init__(self,parent,id)
       self.html = HtmlWindow(self,-1)
       self.html.LoadPage("welcome.html")
       self.SplitHorizontally(self.html,wxWindow(self,-1),500)
       self.Show(1)


If you look at the channelTree class I've created a wxTreeCtrl when you
change a sel a execute onCelChanged Now I would like that when you
change a sel he loads an other page into the HtmlWindow. But I don't
really have an idea on how to do this any help ?










From nagylzs at freemail.hu  Tue Jul 29 18:19:40 2003
From: nagylzs at freemail.hu (=?ISO-8859-2?Q?Nagy_L=E1szl=F3_Zsolt?=)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 00:19:40 +0200
Subject: blanks embedded in python 2.3 optparse
References: <3f2625b7$0$24594$626a54ce@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <3F26F2FC.2040702@freemail.hu>

>
>
>is there a way to pass a param with blank embedded with optparse ?
>(C:\Python23\Doc\lib\module-optparse.html)
>
>
>for instance
>prog --name=mr jones
>
>
>and have "mister jones" as a single entry for name ?
>
>reading the docs I see nothing about that.
>
>the only thing is the nargs to pass nargs at a time, but here you can't tell
>in advance how many words in the name there is
>  
>

For Unix and windows:

prog --name="mr jones"

For unices, this should work too:

prog --name=mr\ jones

Know nothing about macs and others.

   Laci






From bgailer at alum.rpi.edu  Thu Jul 17 11:47:39 2003
From: bgailer at alum.rpi.edu (Bob Gailer)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 09:47:39 -0600
Subject: list() coercion
In-Reply-To: <3F16B1BA.97793556@hotmail.com>
References: <mailman.1058449406.8072.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20030717094450.0284ae60@66.28.54.253>

At 03:24 PM 7/17/2003 +0100, Alan Kennedy wrote:

>Bob Gailer wrote:
>
> > I have just read the docs 2.2.5 Iterator Types. Unfortunately this page
> > seems to be written for someone who already understands the page. Is
> > there any other explanation or examples?
>
>Try A. M. Kuchling's "What's new in Python".
>
>http://www.python.org/doc/2.2.1/whatsnew/node4.html

That still sounds like it was written for someone who already understands 
the material. What I'd like is something that I could read once, that would 
define each new term, and would leave me a clear understanding of the topic.

Perhaps I will attempt to digest the topic then write the kind of 
explanation that I wanted to start with and submit that to the document folks.

I find the same frustration with other Python documentation.

Bob Gailer
bgailer at alum.rpi.edu
303 442 2625
-------------- next part --------------

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From skip at pobox.com  Fri Jul 11 08:57:51 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 07:57:51 -0500
Subject: text file edit object
In-Reply-To: <A128D751272CD411BC9200508BC2194D0188574D@escpl.tcp.com.ar>
References: <A128D751272CD411BC9200508BC2194D0188574D@escpl.tcp.com.ar>
Message-ID: <16142.46159.401871.530479@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    Facundo> What about something like this:

    Facundo> try:
    Facundo>    infile = file("foo.txt", "r")
    Facundo>    lines = infile.readlines()[:-10]
    Facundo>    infile.close()
    Facundo>    outfile = file("foo.txt.new", "w")
    Facundo>    outfile.writelines(lines)
    Facundo>    outfile.close()
    Facundo> except:
    Facundo>    print >> sys.stderr, "edit failed"
    Facundo>    raise
    Facundo> else:
    Facundo>    os.rename("foo.txt2", "foo.txt")

Yes, that's what I thought of first, however the errors (and how you recover
from them) are different between the reading and writing phases.

    Facundo> One question: is this method (file, readlines) efficient on big
    Facundo> files?

Should be, though you have the obvious overhead of gulping the entire file.
For very large files it would probably be more efficient to read the file in
smaller chunks and only avoid writing the last ten lines.  However, the code
gets that much more baroque. ;-)

Skip





From gavriep at yahoo.com  Tue Jul 15 06:17:09 2003
From: gavriep at yahoo.com (Gavrie Philipson)
Date: 15 Jul 2003 03:17:09 -0700
Subject: How to crash Python in 1 easy step (python 2.2.2)
References: <2e363c08.0307130944.4c470bc3@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <b1919f11.0307150217.73a5bf2d@posting.google.com>

pwmiller1 at adelphia.net (Paul Miller) wrote in message news:<2e363c08.0307130944.4c470bc3 at posting.google.com>...
> I'm not sure if this is a python bug or a bug in an associated
> library, and I'm not even sure how to correctly report it, but here is
>   Anytime python is accepting keyboard input, whether it's with
> raw_input, or sitting on the command line waiting for the user to type
> code, you can crash python by holding ctrl+shift and then pressing
> enter.
> 
> This is on a RedHat 9.0 system running on an Athlon 600.  Basically
> everything about the system is standard except for what's been updated
> by RedHat itself.  If anyone who has the time and ability to track
> down this bug needs more information, please email me.

I'm seeing the same effect on RH9, using KDE's "konsole" terminal
emulator.
When pressing Ctrl-Shift-Enter, it actually sends the ^[OM characters
(Escape, O, M).
Manually sending the key sequence Esc-O-something also crashes Python.

Why this happens is still a good question...



From cfaust at scpscience.com  Tue Jul  8 11:15:34 2003
From: cfaust at scpscience.com (Faust, Chris)
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 11:15:34 -0400
Subject: Please unsubscribe me 
Message-ID: <039569BFBC06984CACAE270CEF7146740368D8@EX>


-----Original Message-----
From: python-list-request at python.org
[mailto:python-list-request at python.org]
Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2003 9:46 AM
To: python-list at python.org
Subject: Python-list digest, Vol 1 #16415 - 14 msgs


Send Python-list mailing list submissions to
	python-list at python.org

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
	http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
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	python-list-admin at python.org

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of Python-list digest..."





From hwlgw at hotmail.com  Thu Jul 17 02:03:28 2003
From: hwlgw at hotmail.com (Will Stuyvesant)
Date: 16 Jul 2003 23:03:28 -0700
Subject: IMAP examples
References: <3f15cf46$0$45389$1b62eedf@news.wanadoo.nl>
Message-ID: <cb035744.0307162203.6b058ee1@posting.google.com>

> [Guyon Mor?e]
> I can't seem to find any decent examples on how to use the IMPALIB module.
> the docs aren't that sophisticated unfortunately.... the cookbook entry
> comes close, but i'd like to know if someone knows some nice examples
> somewhere.

I did not use it myself but there is an example in the book "Python
Standard Library" by Fredrik Lundh.  The example file is called
imaplib-example-1.py, maybe you can find it somewhere on the internet.

If my english was better I would love to help improve the python
documentation, most modules in the standard libraries lack good
examples how to *use* them with just a simple description.  And a
short motivation for the design of a module if possible like "just
copied the C API" or "Because of efficiency ..." or "We use a class
framework here because ...".  A gigantic task.  The PSL book by effbot
is great but it's a book.  And it needs a new version.



From jlh at cox.net  Sat Jul  5 23:02:14 2003
From: jlh at cox.net (Jeff Hinrichs)
Date: Sun, 06 Jul 2003 03:02:14 GMT
Subject: Collective memory (was: Good code patterns in Python)
References: <mailman.1057083728.8224.python-list@python.org> <vg88va53uha8e@corp.supernews.com> <hff5eb.e9h.ln@escape.shannon.net>
Message-ID: <WiMNa.614530$vU3.26620@news1.central.cox.net>

"Charles Shannon Hendrix" <shannon at news.widomaker.com> wrote in message
news:hff5eb.e9h.ln at escape.shannon.net...
> In article <vg88va53uha8e at corp.supernews.com>, Cameron Laird wrote:
>
[..snip...]
> One really funny problem was when I guy reformatted his Python code,
> around 15K lines of it, and basically unindented *ALL* of the code to
> column 1.  It was the only recoverable copy of the code too.
>
> He had to read the entire program line by line to recreate the logic.
What happens if you replace brackets { with '' in C/C++.  What you are
talking about is being bitten by a lack of version control not a problem
with the language, imho. What if this same programmer removed all asterisks
from some c source?  As mentioned in an earlier post, tabnanny.  I knew a
guy, who in his first couple of weeks as a programmer, was cleaning up some
testing folders and managed to rm * the development source.  After soiling
myself and taking a deep breath, I restored the files from backup. <g>  Two
lessons to be learned: 1) It wasn't rm's fault nor the fault of my source
code, it was my own brain-dead action. 2) That which does not kill us, makes
us stronger.

-jeff





From guettler at thomas-guettler.de  Mon Jul  7 09:06:13 2003
From: guettler at thomas-guettler.de (Thomas =?ISO-8859-15?Q?G=FCttler?=)
Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 15:06:13 +0200
Subject: Several __getstate__ methods
Message-ID: <bebr85$3ddl1$1@ID-63505.news.dfncis.de>

Hi!

I use ZODB3. I want to pickle parts
of my database and import it on a different system.

Since, as far as I know, ZODB uses the __getstate__ method
for pickling the objects.

For my export, I want to ignore some parts of my objects.

If I will change __getstate__ I am in trouble because Zope
uses it. 

Using a global variable in __getstate__ to see if I am in
"zope-getstate" or "my-export getstate" mode is dangerous, since
the application is multithreaded.

I thought about using a dict which holds the variable for each thread.

What other solutions are possible?


Example:

class MyClass:
   def __init__(self, root)
       self.root=root

I want to ignore the reference to root, since I want to import the
object into a new root.


 thomas






From adalke at mindspring.com  Thu Jul 24 15:51:43 2003
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 13:51:43 -0600
Subject: Tokenize
References: <8%VTa.133$313.72262@news.uswest.net> <3F203257.AD0A4B30@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <bfpd41$l82$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net>

Ken Fetting wants a 'StringTokenizer'.

Alan Kennedy points out
> >>> s = "This is a string to be tokenised"
> >>> s.split()
> ['This', 'is', 'a', 'string', 'to', 'be', 'tokenised']
   ...
> Or maybe you have something more specific in mind?

Another option is the little-known 'shlex' module, part of the standard
library.

>>> import shlex, StringIO
>>> infile = StringIO.StringIO("""ls -lart "have space.*" will travel""")
>>> x = shlex.shlex(infile)
>>> x.get_token()
'ls'
>>> x.get_token()
'-'
>>> x.get_token()
'lart'
>>> x.get_token()
'"have space.*"'
>>> x.get_token()
'will'
>>> x.get_token()
'travel'
>>> x.get_token()
''
>>>

As you can see, it treats '-' unexpectedly (compared to the shell).
Also, with __iter__ in newer Pythons, if these module were useful
then it would be nice if "for token in shlex..." worked.

                    Andrew
                    dalke at dalkescientific.com





From woodsplitter at rocketmail.com  Sun Jul 13 10:44:18 2003
From: woodsplitter at rocketmail.com (David Rushby)
Date: 13 Jul 2003 07:44:18 -0700
Subject: HTML Help (CHM) file for Python 2.2.3
References: <mailman.1058020278.10237.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7876a8ea.0307130027.6fbb13fe@posting.google.com>

L?tez? <letezo at fw.hu> wrote in message news:<mailman.1058020278.10237.python-list at python.org>...
> Hi Python Fans!
> 
> Could you send me a download URL of a compiled
> HTML Help (CHM) file for Python 2.2.3 ?

Right here:
http://kinterbasdb.sourceforge.net/other/pystd_docs/python-223-std-docs.chm

By the way, the Python program used to create that file is available
here:
http://www.orgmf.com.ar/condor/pythlp.py

Hern?n Mart?nez Foffani's site also provides usage instructions in the
"For home builders" section:
http://www.orgmf.com.ar/condor/pytstuff.html

The program is quite easy to use--I was impressed.



From vm_usenet at yahoo.com  Sat Jul  5 12:18:22 2003
From: vm_usenet at yahoo.com (vm_usenet)
Date: 5 Jul 2003 09:18:22 -0700
Subject: A possible bug in python threading/time module?
References: <mailman.1057347547.21819.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c09aca51.0307050818.9a0c738@posting.google.com>

"Tim Peters" <tim.one at comcast.net> wrote in message news:<mailman.1057347547.21819.python-list at python.org>...
> [Tim]
> > Turns out that the Windows implementation of the Python C API function
> > PyThread_start_new_thread() contained several "laziness" errors
> >
> > ...
> >
> > I'm testing putative fixes on a Win98 box and don't see any hangs any
> > more. However, with more than about 3000 threads,
> >
> >     thread.error: can't start new thread
> >
> > gets raised because MS's _beginthread() fails (with errno == EAGAIN ==
> > "there are too many threads").
> 
> FYI, these fixes have been checked in and will be part of 2.3 final (and
> 2.2.4, if that's ever released).
> 
> The maximum number of threads you can have alive simultaneously on 32-bit
> Windows in an all-default Python build is actually about 2000.  This is
> because each thread gets a megabyte of stack space by default, and 2048
> threads would entirely exhaust the 31-bit user virtual address space just
> for thread stacks.  If you want to know more about that, Google on
> 
>     CreateThread default stack size
> 
> The top hit is to the current relevant MSDN docs.

I understand what you are saying. Obviously there is a limit for the
amount of threads running at the same time. Thank you for taking the
time to find the problems, and for fixing them.

Here's to a better Python!

vm



From suresh_vsamy at rediffmail.com  Fri Jul  4 06:14:05 2003
From: suresh_vsamy at rediffmail.com (Suresh  Kumar)
Date: 4 Jul 2003 10:14:05 -0000
Subject: Converting canvas coordinates to window  coordinates in tkinter.........
Message-ID: <20030704101405.27614.qmail@webmail26.rediffmail.com>

An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed...
Name: not available
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20030704/d42e00b1/attachment.ksh>

From simonb at webone.com.au  Mon Jul 21 18:53:00 2003
From: simonb at webone.com.au (Simon Burton)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 08:53:00 +1000
Subject: Dr. Dobb's Python-URL! - weekly Python news and links (Jul 21)
References: <vhne9r38jpsq8a@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2003.07.21.22.52.53.988517@webone.com.au>

On Mon, 21 Jul 2003 09:58:19 +0000, Irmen de Jong wrote:

> QOTW:  "To 'Tron' fans: yes, you could assign the name TimBit to it [the
> TimBot] but it's a broken Bit; what's the use of a Bit that's always true?"
>                                             -- Christos Georgiou
> 
> "Whether or not I agree with you, you have made me think.  That's worth
> the price of my Internet connection this month."
>                                             -- Tim Roberts
> 
> 
> Discussion
> ----------
>      Aahz writes a rebuttal to Artima.com, because a recent interview with
>      Bruce Eckel on that site might give the wrong impression regarding
>      Python's type system.
>          <http://www.artima.com/weblogs/viewpost.jsp?thread=3D7590>
>      The interview with Bruce Eckel is at:
>          <http://www.artima.com/intv/typing.html>
> 

I found Aahz' rebuttel here:
http://www.artima.com/forums/flat.jsp?forum=106&thread=7590&message=21284&redirect=true&hilite=true&q=aahz


Simon Burton.




From rstephens at vectron.com  Mon Jul  7 17:05:28 2003
From: rstephens at vectron.com (Ron Stephens)
Date: 7 Jul 2003 14:05:28 -0700
Subject: Merlin, a fun little program
References: <3F08CFDF.6050603@earthlink.net> <mailman.1057557371.12852.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a5415304.0307071305.322f542@posting.google.com>

Oren wrote """You can still use Google for this """

Yes indeed. I have played with the Google API's, registered and also
use pygoogle. They make this kind of thing easier, no doubt about it.
The reason I used my hand-rolled web scraper on Yahoo is that using
the Google API's means that other potential users, like those who
download form my web site, can't run my code it uses Google api's
unless they download and register also; which might be pain for them.

At any rate, doing my own was fun and informative for me. A big
disadvantage to web scraping is that they code tends to break over
time, though. This happened to me with Max M's original; two year old
algorithm. Google broke it, and I didnt realize it unit I can back and
retried the code.

The two links you gave are good ones and I studied both in my efforts;
I recommend them. Thanks for the inputs.

I guess the bigger question is; is there anything wrong with web
scraping? I surely never meant any harm in it, and certainly no money
is involved. But maybe I should give it up and do other things?

Ron Stephens



From other at cazabon.com  Sun Jul  6 03:26:34 2003
From: other at cazabon.com (Kevin)
Date: Sun, 06 Jul 2003 07:26:34 GMT
Subject: Threading issue:  [Error 9]: bad file descriptor
Message-ID: <KaQNa.394960$Vi5.10189553@news1.calgary.shaw.ca>

Has anyone else run into random IOErrors ([Error 9] bad file descriptor) in
multi-threaded Python apps?

I've searched the newsgroups, and the only references I can find to that
seem to be sporadically related to threading, but nobody seems to have a
"fix" or even a clear understanding of what the issue is.

The app I'm running into this with (once in a while... not really repeatable
predictably) is using 3 threads, and I'm using locks around all shared
objects.  The error seems to be happening mostly when I'm trying to delete a
temporary file that was originally created by a different thread.

ANy suggestions?  Thanks,

Kevin.





From jeffr at euc.cx  Wed Jul 30 12:00:35 2003
From: jeffr at euc.cx (Jeffrey P Shell)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 10:00:35 -0600
Subject: Web tool kit : pro - cons ?
In-Reply-To: <1059578213.12751.94.camel@lothlorien>
Message-ID: <F479FF16-C2A6-11D7-AFA4-000A2782F316@euc.cx>

On Wednesday, July 30, 2003, at 09:16  AM, Ian Bicking wrote:

> On Wed, 2003-07-30 at 01:28, Jeffrey P Shell wrote:
>> Database Abstraction is another key issue.  Zope gets points here not
>> only for the built in ZODB database, but for SQL Methods / Database
>> Adapters.  There is nothing in Zope that is tied to Postgres, MySQL,
>> Oracle, Sybase, SQLite, etc.  Yet it's always been able to use any of
>> them since before it was Zope.  There's just a nice simple abstraction
>> layer that one seldom has to think about.
>
> Praising SQL Methods?  Maybe I've been missing something, but SQL
> Methods seem really primitive to me, certainly worse than the DB API
> (though I suppose they preceded the DB API).  The transaction stuff is
> convenient -- if sometimes mysterious (like so many Zope things).  But
> it's not solving a terribly difficult problem.

Object Relational mapping is a terribly difficult problem, and SQL 
Methods do not attempt to solve that.  But SQL Methods are *great* for 
reading data, and for composing complex queries.  A fair amount of 
applications (at least, older school applications) for the web, 
particularly intranets, have been about publishing the RDBMS data on 
the web.  That's what SQL Methods do best.

When it comes to DML statements, they're not stellar.  If you're using 
an RDBMS as a primary persistence system, then yeah - a lot more work 
can be involved.  I've started writing around this in a lot of my Zope 
applications with a simple core framework to deal with basic CRUD 
(Create/Read/Update/Delete) statements where complex queries (usually 
only needed on reads) aren't required.

>> Other tools try the O-R
>> mapping route for abstraction with varying degrees of success.
>> SkunkWeb has PyDO, Webware has one (I can't remember its name right
>> now).  Zope's model is nice because it's not intrinsic to Zope that
>> you use SQL - it's just a nice model to plug into if you need it, when
>> you need it.  I don't know how other toolkits stack up here.  Some may
>> just say "go find a Python adapter that works for you and do what you
>> want with it", which seems to be as good of a way to go as any.
>
> PyDO and MiddleKit (Webware's) are both independent of their frameworks
> (it's kind of unfortunate that they appear to be tied, though), as are
> the other ORMs (like my SQLObject).  All three provide something
> approximating business objects built around database rows.

They all put the model too close to the Python code for my personal 
comfort.  Sometimes that's good.  Other times, not so much.

A couple of more interesting systems are Modeling ( 
http://modeling.sf.net/ ) and Ape ( 
http://hathaway.freezope.org/Software/Ape ).

Ape is a really cool system - but (in current release) you do lose any 
benefits of the RDBMS (primarily, advanced queries) in favor of a tight 
abstract persistence system.  It's tied to Zope and the ZODB at present 
(it allows installation of other ZODB storage types), but I think there 
are plans to make it more independent (at least from Zope).

Ape keeps all of the collaborating components related to persistence 
separated from your business/content objects.  What this allows for is 
the ability to completely change out the storage type.  Not just 
switching from MySQL to Postgres, but switching from RDMBS backed 
storage to file based storages.  The mappers and other components are 
responsible for marshaling the objects data into something readable by 
the target storage type.  So unlike previous SQL storage backends for 
the ZODB which basically stored Pickled objects, Ape can turn them into 
real readable tables and rows.  Or it can turn file like persistent 
objects like Page Templates, Python Scripts, images, etc, into readable 
and editable files on the file system.  You can add a new HTML page or 
image into a mounted directory under this scheme, and Ape picks it up 
immediately.  Extra data, such as Properties, are written out to 
separate files, and any other data that Ape doesn't understand is 
stored as Pickles.  It's pretty seamless, and pretty amazing to watch 
it in action.

Shane based the designs for ape on patterns from Martin Fowler's 
`Patterns of Enterprise Application Architecture 
<http://www.martinfowler.com/eaaCatalog/>`_


> My impression of Zope's SQL Methods is that they encourage distinctly
> un-OO style of programming, and instead everything is done through a
> heap of ad hoc queries and eclectic query results.  At least, that's 
> the
> code I've encountered, and it's taken discipline to avoid doing the 
> same
> thing -- maybe there are better ways to use SQL Methods than what I've
> been exposed to.  (If so, it would be better if Good Zope Style was
> documented, not just learned through wisdom born of failure -- but I
> haven't found that sort of documentation for Zope yet).

Ad Hoc queries have their place.  And SQL Methods return a fairly 
optimized stream of read-only objects that behave like Python objects.  
Since they're read only, they can be brought into memory more 
efficiently than a list of dictionaries, and they don't have to worry 
about name collision.  SQL Methods also let you attach 'Brains' to 
results.  A Brain is a class that gets mixed in with the result object 
and allows for adding extra business logic (again - read only), which 
is a nice way to add extra computational or logical pieces to a record.

Is it a perfect system?  No.  But neither is O-R mapping.  Both have 
their place.  But either system is better than a lot of what I see in 
ASP, PHP, and ColdFusion scripts where a bunch of SQL is splattered 
down in the middle of a script or template.  SQL and Code mix about as 
well in my stomach as HTML and Code.  Which is to say - not at all 
(unless you're writing a dynamic DML query builder ;).

SQL Methods may not encourage a distinctly OO style of programming, but 
they do encourage reuse.  And they encourage being written by people 
who know SQL well.  Some people can write good HTML, some people can 
write good Python, some people can write insanely great SQL.  SQL 
Methods, (old) DTML/ZPT, and Python Scripts/Products were all Zope's 
way of allowing people with different strengths be able to collaborate 
on web site, rather than just allowing the code geek to be the only one 
in control.  It's an admirable design decision that you don't see in 
many other places.

I think that the Enterprise Objects Framework had some of the same 
goals - that a Model (defines the mapping between objects and the 
persistence system, typically RDBMS) could be maintained by someone who 
was more familiar with data modeling, or with the target database 
model, while someone else could worry about the user interface.

J.Shell | Eucci & Co. | http://euc.cx/
http://notype.com/drones/artists/eucci.html

RIVE | http://notype.com/rive/
GDBODYCOUNT | http://notype.com/rive/static/024/





From schull at digitalgoods.com  Thu Jul 10 09:35:41 2003
From: schull at digitalgoods.com (Jon Schull)
Date: 10 Jul 2003 06:35:41 -0700
Subject: Securing PyDoc and CGIHTTPserver
Message-ID: <2621b014.0307100535.449ad06f@posting.google.com>

PyDoc's author Ka-Ping Yee has suggested that PyDoc be patched to
prevent access from unauthorized IP addresses
(https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=305470&aid=672656&group_id=5470),
and that without such a patch, its not " suitable for running on boxes
that aren't behind firewalls"

It's hard to know how much to worry about such things (Comments?).   

However, even with the patch, IP addresses can be spoofed.  Here is an
additional security tactic that might be adopted.

The port number used by pydoc is currently set by the user at the
command line.  Many people probably use the example given in the
python module documentation : "python -p 1234"    However, if the port
were chosen at random and printed out, then only pydoc and the user
would know how to access the pydoc server.

I'm considering a similar strategy for a server based on the
CGIHTTPServer module, so comments would be welcome.



From staschuk at telusplanet.net  Thu Jul 31 07:18:03 2003
From: staschuk at telusplanet.net (Steven Taschuk)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 05:18:03 -0600
Subject: Python speed vs csharp
In-Reply-To: <rkdc7poiachh.1x4jtxjzaf3zo.dlg@40tude.net>; from mike@nospam.com on Wed, Jul 30, 2003 at 11:09:22PM -0700
References: <rkdc7poiachh.1x4jtxjzaf3zo.dlg@40tude.net>
Message-ID: <20030731051803.A11030@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>

Quoth Mike:
  [a number-crunching hotspot benchmarks at 210s in Python]
> translated it to C and ran it. The C code runs in approximately 7.5
> seconds. That's compelling, but C isn't: part of my simulation includes a
> parser to read an input file. I put that together in a few minutes in
> Python, but there are no corresponding string or regex libraries with my C
> compiler, so converting my Python code would take far more time than I'd
> save during the resulting simulations.

It seems you're speaking here as if the options are a pure-Python
program and a pure-C program.  Is there a reason you can't move
just this one hotspot function out to C, leaving the parser etc.
in Python?

-- 
Steven Taschuk                  staschuk at telusplanet.net
"Telekinesis would be worth patenting."  -- James Gleick




From vze4rx4y at verizon.net  Tue Jul 22 13:59:48 2003
From: vze4rx4y at verizon.net (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 17:59:48 GMT
Subject: How do I get info on an exception ?
References: <fc07672ed11f5dcad539bcf9bf0d051f@news.1usenet.com> <U2NRa.7475$7O.275@nwrdny01.gnilink.net> <vhh3kss6ailjf9@corp.supernews.com> <qbySa.19290$7O.15283@nwrdny01.gnilink.net> <vhqqekoa2osu77@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <oYeTa.26187$7O.15995@nwrdny01.gnilink.net>

[Cameron Laird]
> >> But unsatisfying--at least to me.
> >
> >Submit a patch.
> .
> .
> .
> I deserved that.

It wasn't a jab.
Truly, if you see a way to clarify the docs, submit a patch.
If everyone finds it helpful, it will be accepted.  That's how
the docs improve over time.  I've personally written or
accepted over a hundred of these in the past year.


> There was more to my post, of course.  Part of what I was trying to
> express is that exception interfaces are almost always relegated to
> a footnote, with only a generalized description, even in the frequent
> case that a method's exceptions are more complicated than its invoca-
> tions.

No doubt, exceptions often get less explanation than everything else.
However, in this case, the docs seemed reasonably clear to me.

The part that could be improved is where it talks about returning a
message or a tuple, as if either one but not both could occur at any
time.  It would be more accurate to say, that in all cases an exception
instance is returned; the instance has a __str__ method so it can be
printed as if it were a string; the instance has an attribute "args" which
is the tuple (errno, errmsg); and the instance has a __getitem__ method
so the args tuple can be directly unpacked as if the instance had been
the tuple itself.

OTOH, that is long-winded and distracts from the flow of knowledge
about sockets.  It is also how all exception instances work.


> So, Raymond, do you have general guidelines for how you think excep-
> tions should be documented?

Unless there are interesting values being returned, it is probably
sufficient to name the exception, state what it represents, and
describe where it fits in the class structure (i.e. socket.herror is a
subclass of socket.error).  When you think about it, why have
three paragraphs on an exception whose code is as simple as:

    class xyzException(Exception): pass     # raised when xyz occurs

When interesting values are returned, describe the meaning of
each element in the instance's arg tuple (i.e.  (errno, errmsg)).
Afterall, the code behind it may be as simple as:

    raise socket.herror(errno, errmsg)  # reveal the packet's error information

Elsewhere in the docs, functions descriptions should list the names
of the exceptions they can raise unless it is obvious or pertains
to a whole collection of functions (i.e. all high-volume socket
operations can potentially raise a timeout).

In general, I like the documents to be as specific as possible without
replicating the code or locking in a particular implementation.  However,
there is a competing force to keep module documents centered on how
to use the module.  For example, I found the unittest documentation to
be highly specific and thorough, yet unsatisfactory because you practically
had to read a book on the subject to be able to make basic use of the
module.  To fix it, I added a new introductory section that covers
(in one page) the 5% of the module that will meet 95% of your needs
(enough to get you up and running).


Raymond Hettinger





From bdesth.nospam at removeme.free.fr  Wed Jul  9 17:35:03 2003
From: bdesth.nospam at removeme.free.fr (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 21:35:03 +0000
Subject: Python vs PHP
References: <3F094FA4.9030800@ploiesti.astral.ro> <mailman.1057608075.17865.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3F0C8A87.8070505@removeme.free.fr>

Ian Bicking wrote:
> 
(snip)
> What you should remember when moving away from PHP, is that you no
> longer have to use the server-page metaphor -- most of your application
> logic should be in plain Python modules.  Then you'll use your PSP (or
> similar) page to present that code and respond to user input.

Funny... when using PHP, I personnally write the logic in separate 
modules, and keep the presentation in 'server pages' that call the 
modules and format/print the result...

I don't see why coding in PHP should be that different from coding in 
Python (except that one of them is a far better language whatsoever... 
Too bad I can't afford Python-powered hosting)

Bruno






From o_otaotao at hotmail.com  Mon Jul 28 06:41:34 2003
From: o_otaotao at hotmail.com (PythonMan)
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 18:41:34 +0800
Subject: Any Software can Python <-> Delphi ?
Message-ID: <bg2ul3$jvg6p$1@ID-142885.news.uni-berlin.de>

Any Software can change Python source code to Delphi ?
thx


--









From Bill.Scherer at verizonwireless.com  Mon Jul 28 13:27:43 2003
From: Bill.Scherer at verizonwireless.com (Scherer, Bill)
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 13:27:43 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: pretty printing graphs
In-Reply-To: <m21xway3q1.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0307281321220.22574-100000@bagend.odc.vzwcorp.com>

On Mon, 28 Jul 2003, John Hunter wrote:

> 
> I have a tree structure (directed acyclic graph), where each node can
> represent itself as a multi-line string that is not very wide (eg, 10
> chars per line).  I would like to print the graph like
> 
>         C
>    C1        C2
> C1a  C1b   C2a   C2b

[P&M]

John - 

Do you strictly require plain text output? If not, look into 
graphiz.  It's fairly easy to generate dot files from python and 
then generate output in postscript or in a bitmap format (jpg, 
png, etc) using the graphiz tools.

graphiz can be had from http://www.graphviz.org

There is a python interface to graphviz available from 
http://www.cs.brown.edu/~er/software , but I have not used it.

graphviz's output is customizable to some extant, and looks 
rather nice.

HTH, 

Bill

> 
> Where C, C1, etc.. are the multiline string blocks referred to above.
> Does anybody know of a tool that can do this.  Here is an example,
> somewhat long because I have to create the multiline strings.
> 
>     from __future__ import division, generators
> 
>     def enumerate(seq):
>         "Waiting for python 2.3"
>         for i in range(len(seq)):
>             yield i, seq[i]
> 
>     class O:
> 
>         def __init__(self, text):
>             self.text = text
>         def __str__(self):
>             return self.text 
> 
>     class Node:
>         def __init__(self, o):
>             self.node = o
>             self.children = []
> 
>         def __str__(self):
>                 s = ''
>                 #s += str(self.node) + '\n\n'
>                 if len(self.children)==0: return s
>                 childStrs = [str(child.node) for child in self.children]
> 
>                 lines = [[] for tmp in childStrs]
>                 for lineNum, t in enumerate(childStrs):
>                     lines[lineNum].extend(t.split('\n'))
> 
>                 maxLines = max([len(l) for l in lines])
>                 sep = '      '
>                 for lineNum in range(maxLines):
>                     row = ''
>                     for childNum in range(len(childStrs)): 
>                         row += lines[childNum][lineNum] + sep
>                     s += row + '\n'
>                 s += '\n\n'
>                 for l in self.children:
>                     s += str(l) 
>                 return s
> 
> 
> 
>     n0 = Node(O("""1  2  3  0
>     1  2  3  4 
>     1  2  1  5 
>     1  2  1  1 
>     4  3  2  2 
>     4  3  2  7 
>     2  3  2  3 
>     2  3  2  9"""))
> 
> 
>     n1 = Node(O("""1  2  3  0
>     1  2  3  4
>     1  2  1  5
>     1  2  1  1
>     ----------
>     1  1  0  0"""))
> 
>     n2 = Node(O("""4  3  2  2
>     4  3  2  7
>     2  3  2  3
>     2  3  2  9
>     ----------
>     0  1  1  0"""))
> 
> 
> 
>     n1a = Node(O("""1  2  1  5
>     1  2  1  1
>     ----------
>     1  1  1  0"""))
> 
>     n1b = Node(O("""1  2  3  0
>     1  2  3  4
>     ----------
>     1  1  1  0"""))
> 
>     n2a = Node(O("""2  3  2  3
>     2  3  2  9
>     ----------
>     1  1  1  0"""))
> 
>     n2b = Node(O("""4  3  2  2
>     4  3  2  7
>     ----------
>     1  1  1  0"""))
> 
> 
>     n0.children.extend([n1, n2])
>     n1.children.extend([n1a, n1b])
>     n2.children.extend([n2a, n2b])
>     print n0
> 
> Which prints:
> 
> 1  2  3  0      4  3  2  2      
> 1  2  3  4      4  3  2  7      
> 1  2  1  5      2  3  2  3      
> 1  2  1  1      2  3  2  9      
> ----------      ----------      
> 1  1  0  0      0  1  1  0      
> 
> 
> 1  2  1  5      1  2  3  0      
> 1  2  1  1      1  2  3  4      
> ----------      ----------      
> 1  1  1  0      1  1  1  0      
> 
> 
> 2  3  2  3      4  3  2  2      
> 2  3  2  9      4  3  2  7      
> ----------      ----------      
> 1  1  1  0      1  1  1  0      
> 
> 
> This does part of the work, printing the child nodes on the same rows,
> but doesn't the hierarchical part very well.  What I would like is
> something like this:
> 
> 			 1  2  3  0  
> 			 1  2  3  4 
> 			 1  2  1  5 
> 			 1  2  1  1 
> 			 4  3  2  2 
> 			 4  3  2  7 
> 			 2  3  2  3 
> 			 2  3  2  9
>  
> 	       1  2  3  0        4  3  2  2      
> 	       1  2  3  4        4  3  2  7      
> 	       1  2  1  5        2  3  2  3      
> 	       1  2  1  1        2  3  2  9      
> 	       ----------        ----------      
> 	       1  1  0  0        0  1  1  0      
> 
> 
> 1  2  1  5    1  2  3  0          2  3  2  3      4  3  2  2      
> 1  2  1  1    1  2  3  4          2  3  2  9      4  3  2  7      
> ----------    ----------          ----------      ----------      
> 1  1  1  0    1  1  1  0          1  1  1  0      1  1  1  0      
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> John Hunter
> 
> 

-- 
Bill.Scherer at Verizon Wireless
RHCE 807101044903581





From sybrenUSE at YOURthirdtower.imagination.com  Thu Jul 24 12:08:06 2003
From: sybrenUSE at YOURthirdtower.imagination.com (Sybren Stuvel)
Date: 24 Jul 2003 16:08:06 GMT
Subject: i've been close to python's cradle :)
References: <3f1fdf40$0$8301$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net>
Message-ID: <slrnbi00vi.2oo.sybrenUSE@sybren.thirdtower.com>

Guyon Mor?e enlightened us with:
> recently i've visited SARAH, the academic supercomputer in
> Amsterdam, Holland.  this is next to the CWI, where Guido founded
> Python....

Nice one. Where are you from?

I live close to the CWI, and will probably even do a few courses
there. Perhaps I'll look up Guido sometime :)

Sybren
-- 
The problem with the world is stupidity. Not saying there should be a
capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the
safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself? 



From peter at engcorp.com  Sat Jul 12 05:43:36 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 05:43:36 -0400
Subject: Python Mystery Theatre -- Episode 1:  Exceptions
References: <UiOPa.3259$Y92.1224@nwrdny01.gnilink.net> <3F0FC088.3C56EDEA@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <3F0FD848.849E5D88@engcorp.com>

Erik Max Francis wrote:
> 
>  > ACT II --------------------------------------------
> > >>> class MyMistake(Exception):
> > ...     pass
> >
> > >>> try:
> > ...     raise MyMistake, 'try, try again'
> > ... except MyMistake, msg:
> > ...     print type(msg)
> > ...
> >
> > <type 'instance'>
> 
> I'm not sure what mystery you're trying to get at here.  This is what
> Python prints for all instances:
[snip]

He's showing a case where a programmer thought he/she was using
a sort of "parallel form" with the "MyMistake, 'try, try again'"
part and the "MyMistake, msg" part.  

The programmer expected print type(msg) to show "<type 'str'>".  

This is probably an example of an error promoted by leaving the 
redundant "raise Class,args" form of exception-raising in Python, 
instead of having a single obvious way: "raise Class(args)" as 
would be more Pythonic. ;-)

-Peter



From afriere at yahoo.co.uk  Wed Jul 23 23:32:54 2003
From: afriere at yahoo.co.uk (Asun Friere)
Date: 23 Jul 2003 20:32:54 -0700
Subject: Standard behaviour of a getSomething method
References: <mailman.1058966922.4133.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <38ec68a6.0307231932.7a7f53eb@posting.google.com>

"Batista, Facundo" <FBatista at uniFON.com.ar> wrote in message news:<mailman.1058966922.4133.python-list at python.org>...
> When I want to know about a attribute (e.g.: myAttrib) of an object, I
> should use the specific method (e.g.: getMyAttrib).
> 
> Considering that this attribute is always another object (everything is 
> an object in Python), what should getMyAttrib do?

Given that your method is called 'get*' and not 'copy*', my feeling is
that an accessor method should in general return the object itself.  A
client programmer might be surprised if they 'got' a mutable object,
changed it, but it did not change at all.  As has been pointed out,
either way, documenting what it does is essential.

However, while the importance of accessing attributes only via such
'accessor methods' is sometimes stressed, it appears to be more
pythonic to access attributes directly. (ie just use myobj.myAttrib) 
The ususal critique, -- namely that direct access increases the
'coupling' between object, making it difficult to alter the
implementation of an object without altering its public interface --
is met in Python by the use of python properties (which allow the
wrapping of what, to client code, looks  like direct attribute
access.)  At least that is how I have (recently) quelled my unease
about direct attribute access. (My older code is still filled with
get* and set* methods for all sorts of attributes which usually do
nothing more than 'return self.attribute')

The advantage of doing it that way is faster (you save method calls),
more readible code.



From shannon at news.widomaker.com  Sun Jul  6 20:31:56 2003
From: shannon at news.widomaker.com (Charles Shannon Hendrix)
Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2003 20:31:56 -0400
Subject: Collective memory
References: <mailman.1057083728.8224.python-list@python.org> <vg88va53uha8e@corp.supernews.com> <hff5eb.e9h.ln@escape.shannon.net> <3F082031.3010503@netscape.netNOTthisBIT>
Message-ID: <s1faeb.0ec.ln@escape.shannon.net>

I keep hitting the wrong key when following up... :(

In article <3F082031.3010503 at netscape.netNOTthisBIT>, Donald 'Paddy'
McCarthy wrote:

>> Is <add numbers> part of the if statement, or did someone with different
>> tab settings from the author make a mistake and align it accidentally?

> It would be nice if tabs as indentation for Python was deprecated but 
> failing that, If you don't use tabs, its wonderful.

That would make it even worse.

> If you do try python, try not to indent with tabs, and please try it, I 
> did and look at me now :-)

Its precisely because I used it at work that I don't use it now...

There is a lot to like about it, but there's never been a compelling
reason to use it.  We used it because it was buzzword compliant at the
time.



-- 
Ah... you gotta love it when your ISP switches to a SPAMMING newsfeed.
Sigh...



-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----



From tim.one at comcast.net  Thu Jul 10 10:00:59 2003
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 10:00:59 -0400
Subject: Windows Python 2.3b2 bug? Edit with IDLE
In-Reply-To: <buaPa.26828$FN3.2229822@news.ono.com>
Message-ID: <BIEJKCLHCIOIHAGOKOLHGEOCGDAA.tim.one@comcast.net>

[Bartolom? Sintes Marco]
> I am using Python 2.3b2 in a Windows 98 SE machine. If I right-click
> a .py file, the menu shows an "Edit with IDLE" option, but when I
> select it no IDLE window opens, as Python 2.2.2 did. Is it a known
> bug, or am I doing something wrong? Thanks

It's a known bug, and will be fixed before the next release.  There's a new
version of IDLE in a new location in 2.3, but the installer wasn't updated
accordingly (to point the "Edit with IDLE" action to IDLE's new home).





From hokiegal99 at hotmail.com  Sun Jul 13 11:44:05 2003
From: hokiegal99 at hotmail.com (hokiegal99)
Date: 13 Jul 2003 08:44:05 -0700
Subject: removing spaces from front and end of filenames
References: <beqdf0$m2q$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <3F10BABB.D548961B@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <93f5c5e9.0307130744.7e9d8377@posting.google.com>

Erik Max Francis <max at alcyone.com> wrote in message news:<3F10BABB.D548961B at alcyone.com>...
> hokiegal99 wrote:
> 
> > This script works as I expect, except for the last section. I want the
> > last section to actually remove all spaces from the front and/or end
> > of
> > filenames. For example, a file that was named "  test  " would be
> > renamed "test" (the 2 spaces before and after the filename removed).
> > Any
> > suggestions on how to do this?
> 
> That's what the .strip method, which is what you're using, does.  If
> it's not working for you you're doing something else wrong.

for root, dirs, files in os.walk('/home/rbt/scripts'):
     for file in files:
         fname = (file)
         fname = fname.strip( )
print fname

When I print fname, it prints the filenames w/o spaces (a file named "
test " looks like "test"), but when I ls the actual files in the
directory they still contain spaces at both ends. That's what I don't
understand. It seems that .strip is ready to remove the spaces, but
that it needs one more step to actually do so. Any ideas?



From skip at pobox.com  Sat Jul 19 11:15:07 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 10:15:07 -0500
Subject: feature request: a better str.endswith
In-Reply-To: <2259b0e2.0307190530.17a48052@posting.google.com>
References: <2259b0e2.0307180401.5dae02f2@posting.google.com>
        <mailman.1058534669.8794.python-list@python.org>
        <2259b0e2.0307190530.17a48052@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <16153.24699.376795.233736@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    >> I suggest you submit a feature request to SF.  A patch to
    >> stringobject.c and unicodeobject.c would help improve chances of
    >> acceptance, and for symmetry you should probably also modify the
    >> startswith methods of both types.

    Michele> Too bad my skills with C are essentially unexistent :-(

Look at it as an opportunity to enhance those skills.  You have plenty of
time until 2.4. ;-)

In any case, even if you can't whip up the actual C code, a complete feature
request on SF would keep it from being entirely forgotten.

Skip





From bhards at bigpond.net.au  Wed Jul 23 08:38:54 2003
From: bhards at bigpond.net.au (Brad Hards)
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 12:38:54 GMT
Subject: pythonic malloc
References: <OaOSa.6965$OM3.854@news-server.bigpond.net.au> <7g1xwjqujm.fsf@pikespeak.metacarta.com> <zZ9Ta.8537$OM3.7230@news-server.bigpond.net.au> <7g7k6a5o3r.fsf@pikespeak.metacarta.com>
Message-ID: <ylvTa.10103$OM3.6457@news-server.bigpond.net.au>

eichin at metacarta.com wrote:

> 
>> Now I just have a question about portability. Will this break on a
>> big-endian box? That is, does:
> 
> read struct.__doc__, it explains about endianness in detail (in
> particular, that's what the "<" at the beginning is all about.)
Thankyou for your patience. Now that you mention it, I do remember reading
about that in the past, but I guess I'm more rusty than I thought.

Brad



From bh at intevation.de  Wed Jul  2 07:06:28 2003
From: bh at intevation.de (Bernhard Herzog)
Date: 02 Jul 2003 13:06:28 +0200
Subject: Good code patterns in Python
References: <cb035744.0307010149.399df2eb@posting.google.com> <XevMa.4146$Vx2.2206981@newssvr28.news.prodigy.com> <3F0285F0.EDF697E3@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <6qllvh9oi3.fsf@salmakis.intevation.de>

Erik Max Francis <max at alcyone.com> writes:

>  The
> complete solution to this would probably be a conditional expression,
> e.g.:
> 
> 	variable = (if condition: someValue else: otherValue)
> 
> eliminating the duplication which can lead to errors.  (Python, of
> course, doesn't have such a construct, and the silence after the
> conditional expression PEP vote and the long silence thereafter suggests
> that it never will.)

Guido broke his silence at EuroPython: The ternary operator will not be
added to Python.

   Bernhard

-- 
Intevation GmbH                                 http://intevation.de/
Sketch                                 http://sketch.sourceforge.net/
MapIt!                                           http://www.mapit.de/



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Fri Jul 25 14:02:23 2003
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 14:02:23 -0400
Subject: python assignment
References: <mailman.1058992140.17079.python-list@python.org> <fbf8d8f2.0307241825.bd3b315@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <jnSdnQfKQcAt7byiXTWJkA@comcast.com>

"dan" <danbmil99 at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:fbf8d8f2.0307241825.bd3b315 at posting.google.com...
> >>> for x in range(3):
> ...  for y in range(3):
> ...   temp[y] = x+y
> ...  v[x] = temp + []
> ...
> >>> v
> [[0, 1, 2], [1, 2, 3], [2, 3, 4]] #expected behavior
>
> but again the +[] looks funky in the morning light.  Can I always
> assume that an operation of this sort will return a new object, even
> if it has no effect on one of the operands?
>
> I suppose a clearer fix would be v[x] = copy.copy(temp), eh?

or add temp = [None]*3[] between 'for x' and 'for y' so you start with
an explicitly new temp for each x loop.

Terry J. Reedy





From usenet-86956bd8eeb44fe359b60bcf1ff099d4 at juvonen.org  Thu Jul 10 04:07:26 2003
From: usenet-86956bd8eeb44fe359b60bcf1ff099d4 at juvonen.org (Sami Juvonen)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 08:07:26 GMT
Subject: syslogd?
References: <pan.2003.07.09.14.42.49.648450.4119@dcs.nac.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <slrnbgq63q.8la.usenet-86956bd8eeb44fe359b60bcf1ff099d4@kampela.juvonen.org>

On Wed, 09 Jul 2003 14:42:50 -0700,
  Dan Stromberg <strombrg at dcs.nac.uci.edu> blurted: 
>   Does anyone know of a syslogd (server side, not a client) implementation
>   in python?
>   I need something that'll help me ditch a particular kind of message

It's not in python, but syslog-ng will let you do that.
http://www.balabit.com/products/syslog_ng/
http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/bssrvrlnx/chapter/ch10.pdf

-sami.
-- 
"...you want a .sig with that?"



From sketerpot at chase3000.com  Thu Jul 10 16:13:27 2003
From: sketerpot at chase3000.com (Peter Scott)
Date: 10 Jul 2003 13:13:27 -0700
Subject: How does python work
References: <pan.2003.07.10.11.05.07.519231@sdf-eu.org>
Message-ID: <659f82ff.0307101213.4000e098@posting.google.com>

"Geiregat Jonas" <eniac at sdf-eu.org> wrote in message news:<pan.2003.07.10.11.05.07.519231 at sdf-eu.org>...
> I'm asking myself how Python code get's executed ...
> What happens first etc ...
> First read the file and then ..
> How python handle's variable internally ...
> also could someone point me to the build in functions in the python source
> code ?

The Python Library Reference has a section on "Built-in Functions,
Types, and Exceptions" at
<http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/builtin.html>. There is also a
section documenting some rather low level internal modules at
<http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/language.html>, such as parser,
which lets you access the parse tree, and dis, a disassembler for
python bytecode.

-Peter



From bgailer at alum.rpi.edu  Fri Jul 18 19:05:06 2003
From: bgailer at alum.rpi.edu (Bob Gailer)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 17:05:06 -0600
Subject: feature request: a better str.endswith
In-Reply-To: <2259b0e2.0307180401.5dae02f2@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20030718164409.01c3fb78@66.28.54.253>

At 05:01 AM 7/18/2003 -0700, Michele Simionato wrote:

>I often feel the need to extend  the string method ".endswith" to tuple
>arguments, in such a way to automatically check for multiple endings.
>For instance, here is a typical use case:
>
>if filename.endswith(('.jpg','.jpeg','.gif','.png')):
>     print "This is a valid image file"
>
>Currently this is not valid Python and I must use the ugly
>
>if filename.endswith('.jpg') or filename.endswith('.jpeg') \
>    or filename.endswith('.gif') or filename.endswith('.png'):
>     print "This is a valid image file"
>
>Of course a direct implementation is quite easy:
>
>import sys
>
>class Str(str):
>     def endswith(self,suffix,start=0,end=sys.maxint):#not sure about 
> sys.maxint
>         endswith=super(Str,self).endswith
>         if isinstance(suffix,tuple):
>             return sum([endswith(s,start,end) for s in suffix]) # multi-or
>         return endswith(suffix,start,end)
>
>if Str(filename).endswith(('.jpg','.jpeg','.gif','.png')):
>     print "This is a valid image file"
>
>nevertheless I think this kind of checking is quite common and it would be
>worth to have it in standard Python.
>
>Any reaction, comment ?

One of my favorite languages is APL. All APL variables are arrays of 0 or 
more dimensions, and most of the operations in APL take arrays as arguments 
and return arrays as results. So I am often frustrated in Python when I 
have to write a construct such as your example, when, IMHO, it would be 
easy to extend Python to accept sequences as arguments where only single 
values are currently allowed. One example is providing a sequence of 
integers to index another sequence, vis. given seq = [3, 5, 7, 1 ,4], 
seq[(1,3, 0)] would produce [5, 1, 3]. Currently the tersest way to do this 
is [seq[x] for x in (1,3,0)]. The new extension would probably execute 
faster, and is more readable. There are probably more situations that could 
also benefit from such an extension. I know that I can create some of these 
using magic methods, but how much nicer if they were native.

In APL one can specify indexes for the various dimensions of an array. If B 
is a rank 2 array, B[1 2;3 4] retrieves columns 3 and 4 of rows 1 and 2. 
WIBNI one could in a similar way drill into a nested list. I know the 
various importable array modules do some of these tings, but they are 
limited to homogeneous data.

Bob Gailer
bgailer at alum.rpi.edu
303 442 2625
-------------- next part --------------

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From shoppa at trailing-edge.com  Wed Jul  9 08:19:46 2003
From: shoppa at trailing-edge.com (Tim Shoppa)
Date: 9 Jul 2003 05:19:46 -0700
Subject: Collective memory
References: <mailman.1057083728.8224.python-list@python.org> <vg88va53uha8e@corp.supernews.com> <hff5eb.e9h.ln@escape.shannon.net> <3F082031.3010503@netscape.netNOTthisBIT> <bec993c8.0307080602.7d5d132e@posting.google.com> <rj5feb.2hq.ln@escape.shannon.net>
Message-ID: <bec993c8.0307090419.1c597cab@posting.google.com>

Charles Shannon Hendrix <shannon at news.widomaker.com> wrote in message news:<rj5feb.2hq.ln at escape.shannon.net>...
> In article <bec993c8.0307080602.7d5d132e at posting.google.com>, Tim Shoppa wrote:
> 
> > And it's not the same as Makefiles, either.  Everybody has at one time
> > been bitten by how 8 spaces is not at all the same in a Makefile as
> > one tab; and it doesn't help that with many editing/viewing tools that it
> > is impossible to see the difference.
> 
> Listing one bad thing to defend another?

I don't think the choice made in Python is bad.  Different, yes.  I usually
think that "Different is good", in fact :-).

> I hate that part of make too.  
> 
> However, its very easy to tab a makefile properly, because the logic
> is implicit in the rule sets.  You just find each rule and indent its
> members properly.  It's not ambiguous.
> 
> You also get an error...

Not always.  GNU Make is pretty good about flagging errors, but many other
make utilities fail silently in the same circumstances.

> > Compare that to all the punctuation marks that *some* other languages require.
> > Remember the Dilbert where PHB complains that his programmers are using
> > way too many semicolons? :-)
> 
> Don't get me started on code reviews by non-programmers.
> 
> Somewhere I have one saved, that I still can't figure out.

I'd love to see it!  I keep a couple on my office walls where "EXTREME CHANCE
OF FATALITY" is the conclusion.

Tim.



From duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk  Tue Jul 15 05:37:58 2003
From: duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk (Duncan Booth)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 09:37:58 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Python Mystery Theatre -- Episode  2:  Así Fue
References: <VorQa.15236$Kw1.587@nwrdny02.gnilink.net> <3F130ED4.2030804@skynet.be> <mailman.1058217683.17386.python-list@python.org> <3F13C137.6090705@igpm.rwth-aachen.de>
Message-ID: <Xns93B96AC42D53Eduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

"Helmut Jarausch" <jarausch at igpm.rwth-aachen.de> wrote in 
news:3F13C137.6090705 at igpm.rwth-aachen.de:

> Obviously Python allows references to references, since
> e.g. 'once' (the 'name' of a function) is a reference to
> the code and 'f' is a reference to that reference. (you call it
> name binding)

There is no 'obviously' about it.

'once' is a name bound to the function.
'f' is another name bound to the same function.
There are no references to references here.

It is true that the function knows that its name is 'once', and indeed the 
code object used by the function also has a name 'once', but:

  def once(x): return x
  f = once

Both 'f' and 'once' are names bound directly to the same function object.

 +------+              +----------------+
 | once |------------->| function object|
 +------+              +----------------+
                         ^
 +------+                |
 |   f  |----------------+
 +------+

Assignment in Python simply makes a new binding to the existing object. It 
doesn't matter what type the existing object was, it never makes a copy of 
the object nor adds an extra level of indirection.

> A similar situation arises in Maple and there one has the choice
> to either derefence all references down to the real object
> or to just derefence a single time.
> 
> Example
> 
> def once(x): return x
> def twice(x): return 2*x
> ref= once
> def caller():
>      callee=ref   # (*)
>      print callee(1)
> 
> caller()  # prints 1
> ref= twice
> caller()  # prints 2  so that demonstrates name binding
> 
> how can I get the current value (like 'xdef' in TeX)
> of 'ref' in the assignment (*) above, so that
> 'callee' becomes an (immutable) reference to 'once' ?
> 
You did get the current value of 'ref' so that the first time callee was 
bound to the same function that 'once' and 'ref' were bound to, and the 
second time the local variable 'callee' was bound to the same function that 
'twice' and 'ref' were bound to at that time.

Each time you call 'caller' you get a new local variable, none of the 
values are preserved from the previous call. If you want to preserve state, 
save an attribute in a global, or better a class instance.


-- 
Duncan Booth                                             duncan at rcp.co.uk
int month(char *p){return(124864/((p[0]+p[1]-p[2]&0x1f)+1)%12)["\5\x8\3"
"\6\7\xb\1\x9\xa\2\0\4"];} // Who said my code was obscure?



From amk at amk.ca  Thu Jul 10 11:01:38 2003
From: amk at amk.ca (A.M. Kuchling)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 10:01:38 -0500
Subject: Sample Web application 
References: <mailman.1057574470.1750.python-list@python.org> <kmolgv4mp12o71ocion7ra0m2s9fcrqjdk@4ax.com> <begc78$rui$1@mawar.singnet.com.sg> <VLicnfImRJLPkpGiRTvUqA@speakeasy.net> <behc69$o3t$1@news1.wdf.sap-ag.de> <mailman.1057772055.6056.python-list@python.org> <tYqcnZji2bzS5ZGiRTvUqg@speakeasy.net> <mailman.1057801994.30346.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <u_ucnTmf55NP4pCiRTvUqA@speakeasy.net>

On 09 Jul 2003 20:53:17 -0500, 
	Ian Bicking <ianb at colorstudy.com> wrote:
> But more generally, I can't stand writing about how to work around
> problems, when (as a programmer) it is within my power to fix those
> problems.  It seems far better to spend time fixing problems than merely
> documenting them.

I don't believe it's possible to fix the installation problems.  Quixote
works with Apache, IIS, AOLserver, Medusa, and Twisted; there seems nothing 
that can be done to simplify things across that entire range.  

It can be made easier in one particular case, of course.  For example, 
setting up an SCGI application with Apache requires three steps:

	1) Compile mod_scgi and install it.  (On Debian unstable, 
	   you can install it with apt-get.
	2) Add a directive to httpd.conf and restart:
	   <Location "/appurl">
              SCGIServer 127.0.0.1 6500
              SCGIHandler On
           </Location>
	3) Run the SCGI application so that it listens to port 6500.
	
The Dulcinea package (http://www.mems-exchange.org/software/dulcinea/)
includes scripts for running multiple web sites on a machine and easily
configuring them, but that's a feature that isn't being pushed very
strongly, and we made little effort to make this feature usable by
outsiders.

--amk
When is a cat not a cat? When it builds a cat-flap...
      -- The Doctor, in "Survival"



From mertz at gnosis.cx  Tue Jul  1 03:30:28 2003
From: mertz at gnosis.cx (Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters)
Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 03:30:28 -0400
Subject: Howto: extract a 'column' from a list of lists into a new list?
References: <vg1mbarhe86d2d@corp.supernews.com> <gTOA/kKkXAOH092yn@gnosis.cx>
Message-ID: <UiTA/kKkXozS092yn@gnosis.cx>         

"Greg Brunet" <gregbrunet at NOSPAMsempersoft.com> wrote previously:
|>>> tbl.Fields()
|[('STOCKNO', 'C', 8, 0), ('DACC', 'C', 5, 0), ('DEALERACCE', 'C', 30,
|0), ('D-ACCRTL', 'C', 9, 0), ('D-ACCCST', 'C', 9, 0)]

  NAME,TYPE,LEN,DEC = range(4)
  names = [row[NAME] for row in tbl.Fields()]

--
Keeping medicines from the bloodstreams of the sick; food from the bellies
of the hungry; books from the hands of the uneducated; technology from the
underdeveloped; and putting advocates of freedom in prisons.  Intellectual
property is to the 21st century what the slave trade was to the 16th.





From Marco.LaRosa at csiro.au  Thu Jul 24 19:48:59 2003
From: Marco.LaRosa at csiro.au (Marco.LaRosa at csiro.au)
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 09:48:59 +1000
Subject: Newbie question regarding py2exe.
Message-ID: <D081F0014410CC4D9CF273E809D48228011A9493@clex1.vic.CSIRO.AU>

Hi all,

Firstly thanks for the responses. 
I should say that I am new to mailing lists also. I now realise I need to
provide more info than what I did : )

> Thomas said: Don't work in the py2exe directory.

I have been working well away from there.

> Ray says:
>That ment that the setup.py became as simple as ...
>
># setup.py
>from distutils.core import setup
>import py2exe
>
>setup(name="myscript",
>      scripts=["myscript.py"],
>)

My setup.py references only the very first module of the app. That is, the
module which sets the GUI event loop in motion.

In an earlier attempt, I explicitly listed all of the modules in the
setup.py file and some of them did compile. However, the process always died
when it got the first module. The module which gets the GUI going is simple,
standard python code. No special imports or anything other strange tricks.

I have tried converting a simple gui app using py2exe and it worked without
problems. However, when I try to compile my code, I get errors from
Modulefinder.py (They are definitely errors Thomas : )


The final error in the traceback is as follows:

File "C:\......\modulefinder.py", line 267, in load_module
	co = compile(fp.read()+'\n',pathname,\exec')
	File "<string>", line 357

SyntaxError: invalid syntax

I would include it all but I can't get it out of the dos command prompt
window (sorry, I usually develop on SGI - developing on windows is still new
to me)

The code I have developed is for modelling structure-activity relationships.
Ergo, it is quite complex. It uses Python (obviously), wxPython, Numeric,
and Chaco (for plotting). I don't think any of these packages is a problem
because the output tells me py2exe doesn't even make it to a module which
uses them.

Finally, I get the same error using the updated py2exe package.

The only other thing I can think of is the path. Does py2exe use the
PYTHONPATH environment variable?


Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers, Marco




From bokr at oz.net  Tue Jul 15 19:10:38 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 15 Jul 2003 23:10:38 GMT
Subject: anything like C++ references?
References: <b8c3hvsesjoumiboobml3nsnajtha99mp1@4ax.com> <mailman.1058129901.28248.python-list@python.org> <plk3hv0s1m2egf4s34jo6vjedk0q8r2mu9@4ax.com> <hflQa.48826$wk6.12216@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net> <rp94hvc8fg6h91oe7ctqq9jn9ku3nlud1k@4ax.com> <slrnbh6fbc.72v.kamikaze@kuoi.asui.uidaho.edu> <tdo6hvo40qaga46ekamfe65opn2aaa9b41@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <bf21le$5gu$0@216.39.172.122>

On Tue, 15 Jul 2003 03:16:08 +0100, Stephen Horne <intentionally at blank.co.uk> wrote:

>On 14 Jul 2003 23:31:56 GMT, kamikaze at kuoi.asui.uidaho.edu (Mark
>'Kamikaze' Hughes) wrote:
>
>>  It looks like you've almost reached understanding, though you've been
>>given a bad start with a very idiosyncratic and monolingual
>>understanding of what "computer science" teaches--that was certainly not
>>in the classes I took, but apparently yours were different.
>
>Really. My computer science lessons were taught in a way that
>respected the source of most of the theory in mathematics -
>algorithms, Church's lambda calculus and that kind of stuff.
>
>What did your lessons teach?
>
>>  Since every operation in Python operates on pointers, there's no use
>>in having a special syntax for it.  You don't need all the * and & and
>>-> line noise.
>
>The point of the thread is not pointers - they are a side issue.
>
>When you use variables, you are using a concept from mathematics. In
>mathematics, variables bind to values. All values are immutable.
>
>Python binds variables to objects, not values. For immutable objects
>this is an unimportant implementation detail. For mutable objects, it
>breaks the mathematical principle of variables being bound to values.
Only if you persist in thinking of Python name bindings as variable bindings
in your sense. They are not. They are aliases. That concept exists in C/C++
and is e.g. a major concern in optimization.

>
>>  Stop trying to make Python into C/C++, and you'll be happier with it.
>>Or stop using Python, if you really don't like the design philosophy.
>>There are plenty of Algol-derived languages out there.  PHP and
>>especially Perl are more C-like in their internal logic, and you might
>>find them more pleasant.
>
>This is bogus.
>
>I don't want Python to become C or C++. I want Python to respect
>principles that come from mathematics and computer science. Not for
>reasons of theory pedanticism, but because the current system can and
>does regularly cause confusion and errors.
>
That always happens when you use the wrong theory to interpret your data ;-)
Quit projecting your "variable binding" idea onto Python's name bindings.
It doesn't fit. Not because it's bad, but because it's the wrong theory.

>The fact that Python claims to be a very high level language, and yet
>you have to worry about the binding of variables to objects -
Python's bindings are not about what you call variables. I think we should call
them by a different word, e.g., aliases. I.e., different names for the same thing.

>something that should be a low level implementation detail - has very
>real everyday implications.
>
>Respect the idea of variables binding to values and suddenly the need
>for pointers becomes more obvious. You cannot abuse mutable objects to
>fake pointer functionality (another everyday fact of Python
>programming) if the binding of variables to values (rather than just
>objects) is respected.
>
Quit it with this "respect" thing ;-) Python's name bindings just aren't
your variable bindings, and Python's names aren't variable names. They're
aliases. Persisting in calling Python's names variables-in-your-sense is disrespect ;-)

(See another post for a namespace (attibute name space of class NSHorne instances ;-)
that forces name binding to copied objects having equal values).

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Jul 21 08:46:33 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 08:46:33 -0400
Subject: listening com ports
References: <mailman.1058778872.14342.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3F1BE0A9.79D6D92@engcorp.com>

> Enrique Palomo wrote:
> 
> can anyone tell me what must i use to listen the com1 and com2 ports and write  it to file??

Google for "PySerial".



From paul at boddie.net  Wed Jul 16 12:21:22 2003
From: paul at boddie.net (Paul Boddie)
Date: 16 Jul 2003 09:21:22 -0700
Subject: [OT] sentances with two meanings
References: <37d6f77c.0307130932.1e3adf0d@posting.google.com> <3f11ac74$0$49101$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl> <ad052e5c.0307131718.4903430d@posting.google.com> <3F12808B.E53193B8@hotmail.com> <87brvw3ula.fsf@pobox.com> <4701fb.8co.ln@195.171.216.1> <Xns93B99C8B951A6duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <23891c90.0307160821.59b55bef@posting.google.com>

Duncan Booth <duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk> wrote in message news:<Xns93B99C8B951A6duncanrcpcouk at 127.0.0.1>...
> 
> To "take someone in" means to trick or deceive them.

[Dictionary reference]

> take someone in 1 to include them. 2 to give them accommodation or shelter. 
> 3 to deceive or cheat them.

English is a great language to confuse people with when one considers
different verb/preposition combinations, especially when some of them
are used for slang purposes. Anyway, to elaborate on the above:

  A. "I couldn't take it (all) in," refers to the observation of
      events or quite commonly some kind of sensory experience. This
      is only ever used with passive objects or events, though.

  B. "The vicar was completely taken in by the deception." (Note that
      this has subtle differences from...

     "The vicar was completely taken by the idea."

      ...which may indicate enthusiasm or obsession.)

  C. "After trying all his other acquaintances, it was the bishop who
      finally took him in." (This means that the bishop offered
      accommodation or shelter, and not that the bishop was behind an
      elaborate or ambitious deception.)

I'm sure other alternatives exist, some with dubious meanings. :-)

I suppose this goes to show that "modifiers" which change the
behaviour of known "operations" (frequently in subtle ways) can be
impediments to the understanding of a language. It could be
interesting to consider whether Python, as an artificial language,
manages to successfully avoid such possibilities for confusion.

Paul



From wl at flexis.de  Tue Jul  8 04:58:21 2003
From: wl at flexis.de (Wolfgang)
Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 10:58:21 +0200
Subject: SWIG and Python in use?
In-Reply-To: <f4a45085.0307070640.3c619c22@posting.google.com>
References: <f4a45085.0307070640.3c619c22@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bee13d$6ch$1@news.lf.net>

Hi,

Alan Sheehan wrote:

> I am considering scripting a large C++ application.
> 
> In particular I am interested in test driving and end-user scripting
> the "application layer" in Python and giving it access to a large
> collection of C++ objects and their methods.
> 
> I note that SWIG is a mature tool and refers to supporting Python
> v1.x.
> 
> Has/Does anyone use SWIG to bind with Python 2.x ?. 
> 
> Does it still work?
> Any pitfalls, caveats ?

I've used swig a little bit. It's very good to generate interfaces for
C librarys. It can build interfaces for a lot of languages not only
python.

To interface C++ there are some problems. Simple C++ clases are easy
to interface but if us use virtual methods, templates an so on that
possible with swig but you have to write a lot of wrapper code.
Not an easy task.

To interface the app to python 2.2 and above, consider to use
Boost.python: http://www.boost.org/libs/python/doc/index.html

Today I use Boost.python for my new projects. It's easy
to interface C++ librarys and all C++ stuff.
Less code to write and for me it's easier.
(I don't know the Python C Api in detail, with boost.python
I wrote a C++ interface for a database within 3 days)


bye by Wolfgang




From intentionally at blank.co.uk  Thu Jul 17 13:05:58 2003
From: intentionally at blank.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 18:05:58 +0100
Subject: anything like C++ references?
References: <000301c348c7$3c501980$21795418@dell1700> <jf22hvotj4n0q5tpkg627e3jv61norf93n@4ax.com> <3F11106A.65FDA8F2@alcyone.com> <iqm2hvs77lhe1m71v9b579070khbf0uv0a@4ax.com> <berqqd$ad5$1@panix3.panix.com> <brs2hv8edfv0d1fch9mha8otuulajnkh0g@4ax.com> <8vd6hv0sdvoitccmnj4pdj66ss2vg4ii3n@4ax.com> <5ir6hvof9m5rjh6i3u992l91un21qtmsh4@4ax.com> <bf09r0$fn9$0@216.39.172.122> <hub7hvgjjm0prt5p3jn92npmb3gf777mr9@4ax.com> <KamdnQ5zn9n4TYuiXTWJhw@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <9akdhvsiu4laeh6gna5f5ljdu9nrnckkkt@4ax.com>

On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 12:35:48 -0400, "Terry Reedy" <tjreedy at udel.edu>
wrote:

>
>"Stephen Horne" <intentionally at blank.co.uk> wrote in message
>news:hub7hvgjjm0prt5p3jn92npmb3gf777mr9 at 4ax.com...
>> A goal of Python is to be a 'very high level language'. Another is
>to
>> 'do the right thing'.
>
>At this point, we need to differentiate between Guido's goal for
>Python, your goal for Python, and anybody else's.  The above may by
>your goals but not necessarily others' (primary) goals.

Really - funny that these two goals didn't originate from me, then. I
just repeated two phrases that get used quite a bit around here.

For example...

http://www.python.org/doc/1.5.2/tut/node3.html

"""
Python is simple to use, but it is a real programming language,
offering much more structure and support for large programs than the
shell has. On the other hand, it also offers much more error checking
than C, and, being a very-high-level language, it has high-level data
types built in...
"""

Care to claim that the phrase "the right thing" is my invention?

What if I add "(tm)"

>> Python isn't really a member of that list. ...
>> It isn't an experimental language. It doesn't obsess on one
>particular
>> concept. It is a language for getting things done with very little
>> fuss.
>
>This is, I believe, expresses Guido's goal for Python much better than
>your two goals above.  So, by your own statement, he has met *his*
>goal pretty well.

In my view, a very high level language which does the 'right thing'
*is* a language for getting things done.

When I argue in terms of the practical issue of accidental
side-effects - one which Guido himself identified, as shown by the
link I gave earlier in the thread - then people give theory-style
reasons why I'm wrong. The fact that I hadn't really thought through
the theory at the start of the thread is proof positive that the
practical issue is where I'm coming from.

When I debate the theory arguments used against me, people suggest
that I'm just fussing too much about high-and-mighty theoretical BS.
As you just did. Funny, that.

Oh, and the other main suggestion is that I'm just from a C background
and can't get used to Python. Again that is quite simply false. I had
been programming for nearly ten years before I ever used C, I only
used it for a couple of years, and I have been programming Python
longer than C++.




From bgailer at alum.rpi.edu  Wed Jul 30 13:09:26 2003
From: bgailer at alum.rpi.edu (Bob Gailer)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 11:09:26 -0600
Subject: Bottleneck: easy obscurity "encryption" via xor
In-Reply-To: <3f26f477$0$49098$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
References: <p6rdivscomvoraihqmac4piut7uqcpdvj1@4ax.com>
 <p6rdivscomvoraihqmac4piut7uqcpdvj1@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20030730110650.02b83830@66.28.54.253>

At 12:25 AM 7/30/2003 +0200, Irmen de Jong wrote:

>Tino Lange wrote:
>
>>It turns out not to be quick at all. I really didn't expect this to be
>>a bottleneck, but it takes quite some time.
>
>>>   return reduce(lambda x,y: operator.add(x, chr(y)), map(lambda char, 
>>> _salt = salt: operator.xor(ord(char), _salt), str), "")
>
>Running this on a large string builds up a huge list of ints,
>that you are converting to chars and then concatenating them
>together using +... this creates a HUGE number of temporary
>string objects.
>The usual pattern of fast string joining is:
>
>''.join(list-of-fragments)
>
>So first try:
>
>    return ''.join(map(lambda char, _salt = salt: 
> chr(operator.xor(ord(char), _salt)), string))
>
>This runs MUCH faster already.
>
>But the version I'd recommend is:
>
>def xorcrypt(string, salt = 255):
>     if salt <0 or salt> 255:
>         raise "Invalid salt! Must be 0<=salt<=255!"
>     return ''.join( [ chr(ord(c) ^ salt) for c in string ] )

Great minds think alike? I came up with (independently!):
     return ''.join([chr(ord(char) ^ salt) for char in txt])
I also favor comprehension because it is more readable.

>because
>1) salt must be 0..255 not only <=255
>2) forget about map & lambda, use a list comprehension.
>
>That implementation runs about 20 times faster than your original one;
>0.11 seconds for 100 Kb source data. (python 2.3)
>
>HTH,
>--Irmen de Jong
>
>
>--
>http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
>
>
>
>---
>Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
>Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
>Version: 6.0.500 / Virus Database: 298 - Release Date: 7/10/2003

Bob Gailer
bgailer at alum.rpi.edu
303 442 2625
-------------- next part --------------

---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.500 / Virus Database: 298 - Release Date: 7/10/2003

From adalke at mindspring.com  Mon Jul 14 12:28:38 2003
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 10:28:38 -0600
Subject: anything like C++ references?
References: <sag3hv4vf884ed7ouu5cv8ofnopp9j1t12@4ax.com>, <000301c348c7$3c501980$21795418@dell1700> <iqm2hvs77lhe1m71v9b579070khbf0uv0a@4ax.com> <berqqd$ad5$1@panix3.panix.com> <brs2hv8edfv0d1fch9mha8otuulajnkh0g@4ax.com> <bes0ps$l6$1@panix3.panix.com> <qi13hv4s21i8mtr2e600jumm54hqs7tppu@4ax.com> <mailman.1058125699.26133.python-list@python.org> <mailman.1058162661.28864.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <beulg2$ak1$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net>

Moshe Zadka:
> In computer science, the theoretical model one first learns is a turing
> machine. Turing machines have no variables or values, merely tapes.

Actually, we started off with state machine, then worked our way though
DFA/NFA, PDA, etc., ending up with a TM.  I remember being intrigued
that the way we learned these was in opposite order to they way they
were first researched.

Can anyone suggest why?  My thought was that mathematicians
like generalizing, so the most general models were pondered first.
Only as people started to experiment with variations, and with actual
computer hardware to back them up, did people start thinking about
more limited cases.

                    Andrew
                    dalke at dalkescientific.com





From jonathan.hayward at pobox.com  Thu Jul 31 19:24:33 2003
From: jonathan.hayward at pobox.com (Jonathan Hayward)
Date: 31 Jul 2003 16:24:33 -0700
Subject: Bug help: CGI forking
Message-ID: <ac38e686.0307311524.19cad44c@posting.google.com>

I am trying to have a CGI script which forks a daemon the first time,
and on subsequent times asks the daemon to do all the work. The daemon
and the CGI script are run by the same code.

I'm trying to have a class that will handle daemon multithreading, the
"hollow shell" CGI script starting up the daemon, and the CGI script
talking with the daemon. I tried to use recipes from O'Reilly's
_Python Cookbook_, but I must have messed up. The script usually
hangs, and when it doesn't hang, the daemon sometimes isn't started. I
think I have a fork bug, at least.

Any bugfixes and/or clarifications welcome:

class multitasking_manager(ancestor):
    """Class to handle multithreading and multiprocessing material."""
    def __init__(self):
        ancestor.__init__(self)
        thread_specific_storage = {}
        thread_specific_storage_lock = thread.allocate_lock()
    def check_and_start_daemon(self):
        if not self.is_daemon_running():
            self.start_daemon()
    def get_page_from_daemon(self):
        self.check_and_start_daemon()
        sock = socket.socket(socket.AF_INET, socket.SOCK_STREAM)
        sockIn = sock.makefile("r")
        sockOut = sock.makefile("wb")
        try:
            sock.connect((configuration.get_search_server_ip(), \
              configuration.get_search_server_port()))
            for current_environment_key in os.environ.keys():
                sockOut.write("environmental_variable " + \
                  current_environment_key + "\r\n")
                cPickle.dump(os.environ[current_environment_key],
sockOut)
            for cgi_key in cgi.FieldStorage().keys():
                sockOut.write("cgi_value " + cgi_key + "\r\n")
                cPickle.dump(cgi.FieldStorage[cgi_key])
            sockOut.write("\r\n")
            result = cPickle.load(sockIn)
            sockOut.close()
            sockIn.close()
            sock.close()
        except socket.error, e:
            return "Content-type: text/html\n\n<h1>There was an error
loading this page.</h1>" + str(e)
    def get_thread_specific_storage():
        thread_id = thread.get_ident()
        result = thread_specific_storage.get(thread_id)
        if thread_specific_storage is None:
            try:
                thread_specific_storage_lock.acquire()
                thread_specific_storaget[thread_id] = result = {}
            finally:
                thread_specific_storage_lock.release()
        return result
    def is_daemon_running(self):
        sock = socket.socket(socket.AF_INET, socket.SOCK_STREAM)
        try:
            sock.connect((configuration.get_search_server_ip(), \
              configuration.get_search_server_port()))
            sock.close()
            return 1
        except socket.error:
            return 0
    def run_daemon(self):
        sock = socket.socket(socket.AF_INET, socket.SOCK_STREAM)
        sock.setsockopt(socket.SOL_SOCKET, socket.SO_REUSEADDR, 1)
        sock.bind(("", configuration.get_search_server_port()))
        sock.listen(5)
        while 1:
            try:
                newsocket, address = sock.accept()
                start_new_thread(self.run_daemon_thread, (newsocket,
address))
            except socket.error:
                sock.close()
                sock = socket.socket(socket.AF_INET,
socket.SOCK_STREAM)
                sock.setsockopt(socket.SOL_SOCKET,
socket.SO_REUSEADDR, 1)
                sock.bind(("",
configuration.get_search_server_port()))
                sock.listen(5)
    def run_daemon_thread(sock, address):
        """Reads a CGI or other header variable alone on a line,
format like
            cgi_value <HTML form element name>
            environmental_variable REMOTE_ADDR
        and then a pickled value. There is exactly one space between
the two
        elements, and neither element may contain a space"""
        sockIn = sock.makefile("wb")
        sockOut = sock.makefile("r")
        line = sockIn.readline()
        while line:
            if get_thread_specific_storage()["cgi"] == None:
                get_thread_specific_storage()["cgi"] = {}
            if get_thread_specific_storage()["environmental_variables"]
== \
              None:
                get_thread_specific_storage()["environmental_variables"]
= {}
            cgi = get_thread_specific_storage["cgi"]
            environmental_variables = \
              get_thread_specific_storage["environmental_variables"]
            line = re.sub("[\r\n]+", "", line)
            if line != "":
                query_line = re.split("\s+", line)
                input_type = query_line[0]
                input_name = query_line[1]
                if input_type == "cgi_value":
                    cgi[input_name] = cPickle.load(sockIn)
                elif input_type == "environmental_variables":
                    environmental_variables[input_name] =
cPickle.load(sockIn)
            else:
                generate_output()
                print_output(sockOut)
            line = sockIn.readline()
        sockIn.close()
        sockOut.close()
        sock.close()
    def start_daemon(self):
        try:
            first_pid = os.fork()
        except OSError, e:
            log_error("Failed to make first fork for daemon. Error: "
+ \
              e.strerror)
            return
        if first_pid == 0:
            os.chdir("/")
            os.setsid()
            os.umask(066)
            try:
                second_pid = os.fork()
            except OSError, e:
                log_error("Failed to make second fork for daemon.
Error: " + \
                  e.strerror)
                return
            if second_pid == 0:
                self.run_daemon()


++ Jonathan Hayward, jonathan.hayward at pobox.com
** To see an award-winning website with stories, essays, artwork,
** games, and a four-dimensional maze, why not visit my home page?
** All of this is waiting for you at http://JonathansCorner.com



From max at alcyone.com  Wed Jul  2 06:02:59 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 03:02:59 -0700
Subject: Assign to True / False in 2.3
References: <bdu98t$1eh$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>
Message-ID: <3F02ADD3.6047F561@alcyone.com>

Culley Angus wrote:

> I was a little suprised to find that I could assign a value to 'True',
> and 'False' without warning though, and was wondering if this is
> deliberate.

This is true of pretty much all Python features.  The only special
dispensation goes to None, which is a warning now (in the 2.3 beta):

Python 2.3b2 (#1, Jun 29 2003, 20:30:58) 
[GCC egcs-2.91.66 19990314/Linux (egcs-1.1.2 release)] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> None = 0
<stdin>:1: SyntaxWarning: assignment to None

Python takes the approach of "We're all adults here."  If you're using
Python, it presumes that you don't need handholding, and that you won't
do things you know you shouldn't do.  For instance, imagine the havoc
that things like this would cause:

>>> int = float
>>> file = str   
>>> sys = 'This is really not a module'

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ Shooters, looters / Now I got a laptop computer
\__/  Ice Cube



From eppstein at ics.uci.edu  Tue Jul  1 21:42:27 2003
From: eppstein at ics.uci.edu (David Eppstein)
Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 18:42:27 -0700
Subject: functors
References: <3jc4gvgn5rb4c4008eedg958ee594lu8p2@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <eppstein-7F22DE.18422701072003@news.service.uci.edu>

In article <3jc4gvgn5rb4c4008eedg958ee594lu8p2 at 4ax.com>,
 Tom Plunket <tomas at fancy.org> wrote:

> How can I create a functor object in Python?
> 
> What I want (being a C++ coder <g>), is to be able to create an
> object that I is callable.  The following is my attempt, but it
> doesn't work:
...
> class SomeClass:
>     def __init__(self):
>         self.countdown = Countdown()
>         self.countdown.SetCallback(30, lambda s=self: s.Callback)

The error is in this line.  Should be s.Callback().
As it is, your lambda is a function that returns a function object, 
rather than calling it as you apparently intend.

>         # I have also tried 'lambda: self.Callback'
>         self.done = False

-- 
David Eppstein                      http://www.ics.uci.edu/~eppstein/
Univ. of California, Irvine, School of Information & Computer Science



From stuff at slinkp.com  Thu Jul 17 14:24:59 2003
From: stuff at slinkp.com (Paul Winkler)
Date: 17 Jul 2003 11:24:59 -0700
Subject: Choosing the right framework
References: <mailman.1058367307.3275.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <f575e202.0307171024.5e0e1dcd@posting.google.com>

"Carsten Gehling" <carsten at gehling.dk> wrote in message news:<mailman.1058367307.3275.python-list at python.org>...
> I may be ignorant of major Plone issues, but here are my main "grudges"
> against it (please bear in mind that I haven't researched Plone for more
> than 3 days, and some of my arguments may look plain stupid ;-) :
> 
> <grudge>
> 1) I don't the idea, that the user authentication (login form) to managin
> g
> the content of the website is visible on the website's pages.

This is trivial to change - you don't even have to write or modify any
code to do so, it's a matter of unchecking a box on a configuration
form.

Granted, *finding* the form in question might take a while for a
novice :-\
In this case, it's at 
/your_plone_site/portal_membership/manage_editActionsForm
 
> 2) I want the content management interface to be similar to the one I
> currently use in my own CMS. (One frame with a tree structure of the page
> hierarki, one frame with the page displayed, and content editing forms as
> popup windows).
> </grudge>

This is also very doable. All forms, templates, and images used by
CMF, and therefore by Plone, are in /your_plone_site/portal_skins.
*Everything* can be changed.

So what I'd do, rather than focusing on how CMF and/or Plone and/or
CPS looks / feels, is look at its feature set and see how closely it
matches what you want & need to do. For Plone at least, there is also
a very active IRC channel - #plone on irc.openprojects.net

In order to do this you need to 
1) learn how to read/write ZPT 

2) The real difficulty would be in learning what/where are all the
existing templates & forms and customizing them to do what you want,
while understanding plone/cmf well enough to not throw the baby out
with the bathwater.  In my experience, you don't want to start from
scratch - there's an awful lot of useful functionality already
implemented and tested, and you should leverage it.
So even if it seems slower than starting over, I suggest customizing
things based on an existing skin.

It might be worth playing around some with CMFDefault (the basic stuff
that plone is based on); it's simpler and less featureful, so you
might be able to grasp more of the core concepts and functionality
before deciding whether you want / need to tackle Plone.

Also, you might want to look at the Plone Book:
http://plone.org/documentation/book
A lot of the ideas apply to plain old CMFDefault too.

check the FAQ section for some quickie how-to tidbits.
Chapter 6 tells you all about customizing look & feel.

Want to see some CMF/plone sites that look different from each other?
Check out these:
http://www.plone.org/about/sites

Of course, these don't show you the content management interface, but
that's just as skinnable as the end-user presentation...

With all that said, I sometimes use plain old CMF as a base instead of
Plone because there's just less of it to deal with :-)

ANother zope/cmf-based content management system is CPS, worth a look:
http://www.nuxeo.org/cps



From stephane.bidoul at softwareag.com  Sun Jul 27 10:35:29 2003
From: stephane.bidoul at softwareag.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?St=E9phane_Bidoul?=)
Date: 27 Jul 2003 07:35:29 -0700
Subject: datetime1 - datetime0, same tzinfo, different dst
Message-ID: <82a334e5.0307270635.3ce7e078@posting.google.com>

Hi,

I'm playing around with the new datetime module.
Looks nice, and a welcome addition to the core...

I've a question about a behaviour of
substractions of "aware" datetimes around DST switch.

The problem is that the difference gives wrong results
when the 2 datetimes have the same tzinfo instance,
but have different utc offsets due to DST.
The behaviour is consistent with what the documentation
says, but I find it quite unintuitive.

Is that the designed behaviour?

Assuming doctzinfo is the sample tzinfo module form the documentation,
below is a commented session that illustrates question.
My win2k sp4 system is in Belgium: GMT+1 with DST.

Thanks.

-sbi

Python 2.3c1 (#44, Jul 18 2003, 14:32:36) [MSC v.1200 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> from datetime import datetime
>>> from doctzinfo import utc, Local, LocalTimezone

Let's create 2 dates, d0: winter time
and d1: summer time.

>>> d0 = datetime(2003,3,30,tzinfo=Local) 
>>> print d0.dst()
0:00:00 # ok: this is winter time

>>> d1 = datetime(2003,3,31,tzinfo=Local)
>>> print d1.dst()
1:00:00 # ok, this is summer time, DST is 1 hour

>>> print d1.astimezone(utc) - d0.astimezone(utc)
23:00:00 # difference of UTC is 23h, ok, it's a short day...

>>> print d1 - d0
1 day, 0:00:00 # now that's surprising!!!

Well, it's actually consistent with the documentation 
that says that no utc conversion is done when the 2 dates
have the same tzinfo, but I find it somewhat unintuitive
in this case.

Now, let's do the same with 2 different tzinfo
instances, that have the same behaviour has the
Local instance.

>>> d0 = datetime(2003,3,30,tzinfo=LocalTimezone())
>>> print d0.dst()
0:00:00
>>> d1 = datetime(2003,3,31,tzinfo=LocalTimezone())
>>> print d1.dst()
1:00:00
>>> print d1.astimezone(utc) - d0.astimezone(utc)
23:00:00 # as expected
>>> print d1 - d0
23:00:00 # as expected too

So in this case it works, but should we create
new tzinfo instances for each datetime we create.
The sample tzinfo module seems to imply they
are best used as singletons.



From jeffr at euc.cx  Wed Jul 30 14:50:56 2003
From: jeffr at euc.cx (Jeffrey P Shell)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 12:50:56 -0600
Subject: Web tool kit : pro - cons ?
In-Reply-To: <1059584280.12753.159.camel@lothlorien>
Message-ID: <C094FDE4-C2BE-11D7-B6C2-003065D2A224@euc.cx>

On Wednesday, July 30, 2003, at 10:58  AM, Ian Bicking wrote:

> On Wed, 2003-07-30 at 11:00, Jeffrey P Shell wrote:
>>> PyDO and MiddleKit (Webware's) are both independent of their  
>>> frameworks
>>> (it's kind of unfortunate that they appear to be tied, though), as  
>>> are
>>> the other ORMs (like my SQLObject).  All three provide something
>>> approximating business objects built around database rows.
>>
>> They all put the model too close to the Python code for my personal
>> comfort.  Sometimes that's good.  Other times, not so much.
>>
>> A couple of more interesting systems are Modeling (
>> http://modeling.sf.net/ ) and Ape (
>> http://hathaway.freezope.org/Software/Ape ).
>
> I don't really see the advantage of Modeling -- it seems terribly
> verbose to me, though I suppose that's because of its origins in
> Objective C.  I don't see any advantage to separating the mapping from
> the class -- it's all code, it's all written by the same people, and if
> you need separate people to handle the pieces and you can't let them
> both work with the same class, either you don't have enough
> communication between people or you are making the whole thing a lot
> more difficult than it should be.  Modeling feels too formal to me --
> more like Java than Python.  A Python ORM doesn't have to be hard.
>
> APE seems like the other side of formal, where it tries too hard to
> seamlessly support every Python object and in the process is just
> another object database (ala ZODB) that happens to be able to use a
> relational database as a backend.

But that's what makes it impressive - it's a fully abstract persistence  
system.  The ZODB is very well designed, and has been in use for a good  
number of years and in many situations.  Ape is a framework that lets  
you customize how that persistence happens.

> A relational database cannot hold arbitrary Python objects unless you
> want to ruin everything that's good about a relational database.  What
> notions of inheritance that can be implemented have significantly
> different semantics than Python inheritance (and composition is usually
> better than inheritance anyway, and that is well supported by  
> relational
> databases).  Attributes aren't columns, Python types aren't database
> types.  Relations are a different environment all around.  I personally
> can't see the use case where you'll want to radically change storage
> mechanisms while leaving a business class alone.  Yes, you may want to
> radically change the storage -- but it only matters that the  
> *interface*
> to that class can stay the same, not that the entire class
> implementation is storage-neutral.

A class shouldn't necessarily care about how its stored.  A contact  
record is a contact record is a contact record.  Storage shouldn't  
factor into the business object at all.  Maybe ties to the persistence  
framework should factor in, but storage is a responsibility of the  
persistence framework.

> That it requires some effort and
> thought to move from an RDBMS to a flat file (for instance) is not a  
> big
> problem in my mind.  Moving from, say, Postgres to MySQL without effort
> *is* nice, and achievable without having separate mapping objects.  I
> think if APE is going to be relational, it has to be more like an ORM.

But Ape is not relational.  It does files extremely well.  I've thought  
about using it do deal with LDAP.  It should take effort to move from  
an RDBMS to a flat file, but that effort shouldn't affect the main  
application classes - that's the responsibility of the persistence  
layer.

In any case, I decided a few months ago to stop chasing the pure O-R  
mapping grail and went with a chain of data-operating business  
components instead of data-backed business objects.  I realized that  
the read/write logic was part of my application more than it was part  
of the core model (the table definitions or LDAP schema), and went with  
an explicit system [1].  It's a similar set of patterns to those used  
by Ape, but implemented further up the application chain.  I recently  
applied the same patterns to LDAP with pretty good results [2].  A  
module called 'forms.py' sits in the package and contains a host of  
Formulator form definitions, LDAP mappers (which set some flags on  
attributes, such as if its a single value and if it should be deleted  
when an empty/nonexistent value is passed to the Gateway which does the  
actual communication to the LDAP server), and - when needed - extra  
PreWrite / PostRead handlers which can apply extra logic to getting  
data for a particular objectClass combination out of the database (such  
as converting a number expressed in bytes to and from Megabytes for  
easier editing).    Most application changes just require tweaking the  
'forms.py' module to add another attribute and a widget/validator for  
it.  So - the mapper file has extra benefits to my applications in that  
I get HTML form building and validation as part of the process.  By  
dropping my earlier requirements of having a 'Contact' class that could  
map 1-1 with a RDBMS (or other system) and instead having a  
ContactMapper (semi-storage specific) and/or ContactSchema (storage  
agnostic - only there to provide rules), I've gotten some fairly robust  
applications that have surprised me (considering how the plan came into  
being and generally executed while watching the Sopranos).

This is a similar system to Zope 3, which separates Schema (used as  
part of the Interface system) from implementation.  Schema definitions  
allow you to write up nice contracts, such as "an 'age' value is an  
integer in the range of 0 - 150".  They're completely implementation  
agnostic (as long as the implementation implements the interface).  I'm  
looking forward to seeing that system settle out - I know it would make  
my LDAP application's schema definitions for Python a lot nicer to look  
at.


[1]  
http://toulouse.amber.org/archives/2003/05/14/ 
component_relational_mapping.html
[2]  
http://toulouse.amber.org/archives/2003/06/26/ 
applying_mapping_patterns_to_ldap.html

J.Shell
Eucci & Co.
http://euc.cx/

Rive, finest recordings since 1994,2003
http://notype.com/rive/





From rsteiner at visi.com  Tue Jul  8 04:48:01 2003
From: rsteiner at visi.com (Richard Steiner)
Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 03:48:01 -0500
Subject: Collective memory
References: <mailman.1057083728.8224.python-list@python.org>
 <vg88va53uha8e@corp.supernews.com> <3F09F136.6060000@srv.net>
 <rfrpt-ah3.ln1@beastie.ix.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <BVoC/oHpvq2Y092yn@visi.com>

Here in alt.folklore.computers,
Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed at ix.netcom.com> spake unto us, saying:

>Kevin Handy fed this fish to the penguins on Monday 07 July 2003 03:16 
>pm:
>
>> In FORTRAN, certial columns were allocated to specific purposes.
>> 1-5 for the line number, 6 for comment/continuation, 7-75 for the
>> program line, 76-80 for sequence numbers. [iirc]
>        <g>
>
>        C in 1 for Comment

Or an "*" in some compilers.

>        Anything in 6 for Continuation

...except a space.  :-)

-- 
 -Rich Steiner >>>---> http://www.visi.com/~rsteiner >>>---> Eden Prairie, MN
    OS/2 + BeOS + Linux + Win95 + DOS + PC/GEOS = PC Hobbyist Heaven! :-)
      Now running in text mode on a PPro/200.  Eat my dust, GUI freaks!
                 The Theorem Theorem: If If, Then Then.



From gumuz at looze.net  Wed Jul 30 06:31:21 2003
From: gumuz at looze.net (Guyon Morée)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 12:31:21 +0200
Subject: funny  slashdot quote regarding python 2.3 release
Message-ID: <3f279da0$0$13799$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net>

 suspect that most time-critical code is not written in python.

Depends on which time is critical: CPU time, or programmer time?

-jcr







From borcis at users.ch  Tue Jul 29 10:26:06 2003
From: borcis at users.ch (Borcis)
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 16:26:06 +0200
Subject: Any Software can Python <-> Delphi ?
References: <bg2ul3$jvg6p$1@ID-142885.news.uni-berlin.de> <_icVa.1123902$ZC.164425@news.easynews.com>
Message-ID: <3F2683FE.9050506@users.ch>

Joe Francia wrote:
> PythonMan wrote:
> 
>> Any Software can change Python source code to Delphi ?
>> thx
>>
> 
> You might find an easier time of it to embed your Python in Delphi, or, 

Beats me that people keep trying to achieve (necessarily idiomatic)
machine translation of human languages, while the (clearly easier)
problem of idiomatically translating between computer languages
looks too hard for serious attention.




From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Mon Jul 21 17:10:57 2003
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 16:10:57 -0500
Subject: os.spawn[*] help
In-Reply-To: <bfhgmm$fmi$1@localhost.localdomain> (Stephen Boulet's message
 of "Mon, 21 Jul 2003 14:59:43 -0500")
References: <bfhgmm$fmi$1@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <m2fzkzy49q.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

>>>>> "Stephen" == Stephen Boulet <stephen.boulet at motorola.com> writes:

    Stephen> Can someone who understands the os module better than I
    Stephen> offer some insight?  I want to open some text in xemacs
    Stephen> (on Windows) using os.spawn[*], but I want the text to
    Stephen> appear in the current xemacs window, as opposed to
    Stephen> opening a new xemacs window.

    Stephen> Is this doable? Thanks.

Yep, check out emacs-server and emacs client.

http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/cgi-bin/info2www?(emacs)Emacs%2520Server
http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/cgi-bin/info2www?(emacs)Invoking%20emacsclient

I have only used this for GNU emacs, but I assume XEmacs has the same
or related functionality.

In a nutshell, from within emacs run the function server-start.

Then, create the text you want to feed to an existing emacs session,
by writing to a temporary file:

  >>> file('somebuffer', 'w').write('Some message\n')

and send it to the emacs server with

  >>> os.system('emacsclient "somebuffer")

This will open the buffer 'somebuffer' in the already running emacs
session with the text 'Some message'

Do you know about pymacs BTW http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/~pinard/pymacs?

John Hunter









From andy at wild-flower.co.uk  Sat Jul 19 09:16:42 2003
From: andy at wild-flower.co.uk (Andy Jewell)
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 14:16:42 +0100
Subject: __getitem__ and arguments
In-Reply-To: <10eb079f.0307190110.30deb5b9@posting.google.com>
References: <10eb079f.0307190110.30deb5b9@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <200307191416.42602.andy@wild-flower.co.uk>

On Saturday 19 Jul 2003 10:10 am, KanZen wrote:
> I'm trying to understand the difference between __setitem__ and an
>
> ordinary method. For example:
> >>> class A(object):
>
>       def __getitem__(self, *args):
>         print len(args)
>       def normalMethod(self, *args):
>         print len(args)
>
> >>> a=A()
> >>> a.normalMethod(1, 2, 3)
>
> 3
>
> >>> a[1, 2, 3]
>
> 1
>
> For __getitem__() the arguments become a tuple. I can't seem to find
> this in the language spec. Can anybody explain this to me?
>
> Thanks,
> KanZen.


Maybe the following will help:

-------------8<----------
>>> class A(object):
	def __getitem__(self,*args):
		print args
	def test(self,*args):
		print args

		
>>> a=A()
>>> a[1]
(1,)
>>> a[1:2]
(slice(1, 2, None),)
>>> a.__getitem__(1)
(1,)
>>> a.test(1)
(1,)
-------------8<----------

This tells us what we could already guess from the formal parameter list: 
*args returns a tuple of the arguments.  

Try:

-------------8<----------
>>> class A(object):
	def __getitem__(self,index):
		print index
	def test(self,index):
		print index

		
>>> a=A()
>>> a[1]
1
>>> a[1:2]
slice(1, 2, None)
>>> a.__getitem__(1)
1
>>> a.test(1)
1
-------------8<----------

As you can see, both methods do the same.  I think you're just seening the 
effect of the variable arguments syntax.  

I'm sure a Guru will correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't see evidence of a 
'special case' here... ;-)

hth
-andyj




From martin at v.loewis.de  Wed Jul 30 00:43:22 2003
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-15?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 30 Jul 2003 06:43:22 +0200
Subject: Upgrading python
References: <ItycnZqbMc9St7qiXTWc-w@speakeasy.net>
Message-ID: <m33cgohbf9.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Stephen Boulet <stephen at theboulets.net> writes:

> When I upgrade from 2.2.3 to 2.3 on windows, do I first uninstall 2.2.3?

If you want to, you can have both 2.2 and 2.3 installed, side-by-side.
If you want to replace 2.2, you should uninstall it first.

Regards,
Martin



From imbosol at aerojockey.com  Wed Jul 30 22:41:50 2003
From: imbosol at aerojockey.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 02:41:50 GMT
Subject: RELEASED Python 2.3 (final)
References: <mailman.1059523523.23534.python-list@python.org> <3f27bacd$0$49113$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl> <c76ff6fc.0307301323.62f3ccd6@posting.google.com> <bg9hgu$k31$1@panix2.panix.com> <38ec68a6.0307301828.7310e01b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <Ol%Va.2860$cI2.2543@nwrdny01.gnilink.net>

Asun Friere wrote:
> aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) wrote in message news:<bg9hgu$k31$1 at panix2.panix.com>...
>> In article <c76ff6fc.0307301323.62f3ccd6 at posting.google.com>,
>> John Machin <sjmachin at lexicon.net> wrote:
>> >
>> >So ... could we please change that to "much kudos"?
>> 
>> Nope.  Kudos is a mass noun, but it's a discrete mass noun.  So you need
>> to say "many kudos".
> 
> I believe it is customary to use the construction 'great kudos,'
> which, in any case, you all deserve.


Am I the only person to say "kudoi to everyone"?


-- 
CARL BANKS



From mhammond at skippinet.com.au  Tue Jul 29 04:59:46 2003
From: mhammond at skippinet.com.au (Mark Hammond)
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 18:59:46 +1000
Subject: Cannot register dll created using "py2exe --com-dll"
In-Reply-To: <57de9986.0307290052.688e54c5@posting.google.com>
References: <57de9986.0307290052.688e54c5@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bg5d1v$ca5$1@arachne.labyrinth.net.au>

Giles Brown wrote:
> I'm feeling quite dumb this morning.
> 
> I'm trying to build a COM server DLL using py2exe and it ain't working.

Not too surprising seeing as it was checked in just days ago :)

> 
> Command line for registering dll:
> regsvr32 c:\pvcs\madeupname\model\dist\application.dll
> 
> Result when I try to register dll:
> """DllRegisterServer in c:\pvcs\madeupname\model\dist\application.dll failed.
> Return code was: 0x80040201
> """

This generally just means that there was a Python exception.  As regsvr 
is a GUI app, the exception is lost.  You may like to add "import 
win32traceutil" at the top of your script (see win32traceutil.py for 
details) - or if that fails, at the top of boot_com_servers.py.

> I have tried an exe server, but this does not register either.

Try an EXE server build with the console flag set.  This should allow 
you to see the exception without redirecting error output.

> Also does anyone know what argument to use to get py2exe to build something
> other than "application.[dll/exe]".  I thought 'output_base' as an argument
> to setup() would do it, but no joy.

Can't recall - sorry.

Mark.




From reply.in.the.newsgroup at my.address.is.invalid  Tue Jul  8 10:57:14 2003
From: reply.in.the.newsgroup at my.address.is.invalid (Rene Pijlman)
Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 16:57:14 +0200
Subject: COM Programming
References: <6308fa3f.0307080220.5889317b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <iqmlgv06i97bu1lrcvmd5j6jafnoo8mp3g@4ax.com>

TB:
>Also has anybody got any references to more info about Python using
>COM?

http://safari.oreilly.com/JVXSL.asp?x=1&mode=section&sortKey=rank&sortOrder=desc&view=book&xmlid=1-56592-621-8&open=false&g=&srchText=python+win32&code=&h=&m=&l=1&catid=&s=1&b=1&f=1&t=1&c=1&u=1&r=&o=1&page=0
http://www.python.org/windows/win32com/
http://www.python.org/windows/win32/

-- 
Ren? Pijlman



From terry at wayforward.net  Thu Jul 10 11:16:27 2003
From: terry at wayforward.net (Terence Way)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 11:16:27 -0400
Subject: Business model for Open Source - advice wanted
References: <246a4e07.0307100613.fc2fc50@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bejvsd$3mh$1@slb4.atl.mindspring.net>

Two companies that make money spring to mind:
1. sleepycat software (they support Berkeley DB); and
2. the MySQL folks (they support, um, MySQL)

They have different licenses, MySQL being dual licensed:
GPL and proprietary, while sleepycat is custom and
OSI-compatible.

My understanding is that they both make good money.

 --

I think you're right on target that accounting systems
need customization... and you'll make money customizing
it.  Your only problem would then be marketing your
product/service.  Business people seldom read freshmeat,
I fear.

 --

Don't worry about people reneging on support contracts.
Companies get large enough, investors/directors will
blow a fuse if they find out that the accounting system
is unsupported: if you target the right companies the
support checks will flow uninterrupted.  If you're still
worried about 'em, offer a pay-per-incident, like MS.

 --

If your product is good enough, *I* may be one of those
consultants that uses your software, gets the support
license, and uses it to support all my clients.  This is
a *good* thing.  For one thing, any enhancements I add
get folded into your product, so you and all your
customers benefit.  For another, I won't be claiming I
wrote the thing: support by the original author of a
product is still important.

 --

Consider the target company size.  Given the $50-$100
support range, I'm thinking small companies < 10 people.
Your support fee is way too low for larger companies.

That is all.  Hope this helps.



From news at yebu.de  Wed Jul  2 09:38:16 2003
From: news at yebu.de (Karl Scalet)
Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 15:38:16 +0200
Subject: Problems with io.
In-Reply-To: <8e35bad8.0307020516.55bb1ddc@posting.google.com>
References: <8e35bad8.0307020516.55bb1ddc@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bdun88$118414$1@ID-141451.news.dfncis.de>

freone schrieb:
> Hello,
> some time ago I started to learn python, today i wanted make a very
> samll and simple program.
> file = open("test.txt", "r+")
> file.readlines()
> file.close()
> And it doesn't work...
> Why?

Assuming file 'test.txt' exists, your program should work.
In your case, you can ommit the + in 'r+', or the 'r+' alltogether.
Also, choosing file as a variable is not a good idea, as it
hides the builtin function (which could have been used
as well instead of open()).

What your problem might be, is not seeing anything as
you do not fetch the result of fil.readlines().
So just do
lines = fil.readlines()
print lines
#or
for line in lines:
     print line


> 
> (sorry for such ask but it is anonyoning me why it doesn't work, if u
> don't reply i'll understand it)




From m at moshez.org  Wed Jul 16 10:33:22 2003
From: m at moshez.org (Moshe Zadka)
Date: 16 Jul 2003 14:33:22 -0000
Subject: Choosing the right framework
In-Reply-To: <BHEFKIOIMEDGILGDACKDMEIBDMAA.carsten@sarum.dk>
References: <BHEFKIOIMEDGILGDACKDMEIBDMAA.carsten@sarum.dk>
Message-ID: <20030716143322.11957.qmail@green.zadka.com>

On Wed, 16 Jul 2003, "Carsten Gehling" <carsten at sarum.dk> wrote:

> It'll probably be run behind an Apache httpd server, so I guess Twisted is
> out of the question.

Why, did Apache's reverse proxy module stop working suddenly?
In general, I prefer configuring things via reverse proxies. The alternatives
(like fast cgi or persistent CGI) looked like they were just as complicated
as writing a web server in the first place, without the advantage of
easy testability.
[For that matter, this is also how I always configured Zope, too.]

Note, however, that Twisted is *not* a web framework. It has a web
server, but writing in that raw is much like writing raw mod_python
code -- it's often useful, but most of the time, it is the wrong
level of abstraction. Twisted's "official" templating system is
Woven. However, Twisted also works with Quixote and it is quite possible
to adapt other frameworks to it. And lest I forget, webtk[0]
also runs on top of Twisted.

It, is, however, still strange to me why you rejected Plone so carelessly
as it *is*, actually, a CMS. Maybe you had good reasons too -- but until
you explain those reasons, it will be hard to guess whether they apply
to other web frameworks.
-- 
Moshe Zadka -- http://moshez.org/
Buffy: I don't like you hanging out with someone that... short.
Riley: Yeah, a lot of young people nowadays are experimenting with shortness.
Agile Programming Language -- http://www.python.org/




From Kepes.Krisztian at peto.hu  Tue Jul  1 04:00:46 2003
From: Kepes.Krisztian at peto.hu (Krisztian Kepes)
Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 10:00:46 +0200
Subject: Python - get key pressing
Message-ID: <sf015ef0.062@testmail.peto.hu>

Hi !

I want to create an py program what process datas for long time.
But: I want to abort it if I need.
Not with Ctrl+Break !

If I push a key (B, or other), the script must stop his work, and save the result created before.

What I need to catch the keyboard events - without stopping a script ?

Example:

while False:
 DoWorkPeriodic()
 if KeyEvent=='B':
   SaveWork
   Stopit

KK





From nicola-mingotti_NO_spam at libero.it  Wed Jul 30 03:56:10 2003
From: nicola-mingotti_NO_spam at libero.it (Nicola Mingotti)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 09:56:10 +0200
Subject: Thank you developers for 2.3 -- correction
References: <aOIVa.8149$yv1.7974@nwrddc02.gnilink.net> <hsoeivkife4csksjlni21t4ieu9dmd95jg@4ax.com> <pan.2003.07.30.09.50.42.135573.274@libero.it>
Message-ID: <pan.2003.07.30.09.56.10.378523.274@libero.it>

On Wed, 30 Jul 2003 09:50:42 +0200, Nicola Mingotti wrote:

> On Wed, 30 Jul 2003 08:21:09 +0200, Tino Lange wrote:
> 
>> On Wed, 30 Jul 2003 05:35:02 GMT, David Lees
>> <abcdebl2nonspammy at verizon.net> wrote:
>> 
>>> ....
>>>2.3      5.04 sec
>>>version 2.2.3    9.77 sec
> 
>> ...
>> By the way: What was/is the speed with 2.1.x on the same system?
>> 
>> 

Emacs Sequence in Pan ...
Mail left before completion :)

On my pc it works if i put k = 0L instead of k= 0
> ...
>     t1 = time.time()
>     k = 0L
> ...

bye .



From pyth at devel.trillke.net  Tue Jul  8 15:16:31 2003
From: pyth at devel.trillke.net (holger krekel)
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 21:16:31 +0200
Subject: path module
In-Reply-To: <1057690391.5396.68.camel@software1.logiplex.internal>; from LogiplexSoftware@earthlink.net on Tue, Jul 08, 2003 at 11:53:11AM -0700
References: <mailman.1057651032.22842.python-list@python.org> <HBF.20030708keeu@bombur.uio.no> <1057687291.8459.71.camel@lothlorien> <1057690391.5396.68.camel@software1.logiplex.internal>
Message-ID: <20030708211631.K6906@prim.han.de>

Cliff Wells wrote:
> On Tue, 2003-07-08 at 11:01, Ian Bicking wrote:
> 
> > Interesting, but I think a bad idea.  I don't believe Python has been
> > ported to Tops-20, and I'm not sure if there's a viable VMS port
> > either.  Most filesystems don't have the complexity that the Lisp
> > pathname encapsulates.  If someone was using VMS paths, I would assume
> > they would subclass path for that OS, adding the portions that applied. 
> > I think it's unreasonable to expect people programming on normal
> > platforms to pay attention to components like version, so even including
> > it in a structured manner is asking for trouble.
> 
> There is talk that Windows will have versioning in its next filesystem
> (WinFS).  It would surprise me if there weren't similar plans on the
> Linux side.

Right.  Reiserfs plans this and Subversion has it (speaking about URLs here, not 
only local pathes).  But i think the way you specify versions will be 
vastly different so the best bet probably is to pass an additional argument to
a path-like object, e.g. for subversion 

    fn = svnpath('py.py', rev=1050)

or remotely

    fn = svnpath('http://.../py.py', rev=7362)

where 'rev' specifies a revision number (which identifies exactly
one state of a subversion-repository).  Other than that, a 'svnpath'
could probably behave like a regular local 'path' object, i guess. 
Hmmm, the above wouldn't be hard to do because svn has python bindings
on all levels ... but enough advertisement :-)

Either way, i believe that path/file versioning deserves some thoughts 
as it might be a "next big thing" (besides java and .NET, of course :-)

cheers,
    
    holger




From staschuk at telusplanet.net  Tue Jul 22 06:30:37 2003
From: staschuk at telusplanet.net (Steven Taschuk)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 04:30:37 -0600
Subject: detecting containers during object introspection
In-Reply-To: <DF2Ta.116099$N7.15785@sccrnsc03>; from davidcfox@post.harvard.edu on Tue, Jul 22, 2003 at 04:00:35AM +0000
References: <woVSa.102913$sY2.46301@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net> <mailman.1058834074.20023.python-list@python.org> <DF2Ta.116099$N7.15785@sccrnsc03>
Message-ID: <20030722043037.B576@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>

Quoth David C. Fox:
  [...]
> However, the real problem occurs if the developer makes a change like 
> this (or even just adds a new attribute which is a non-standard 
> container), and does increment the version number.  Because the version 
> number was incremented, the regression test would *expect* some of the 
> dictionary elements to change type or structure, and would simply update 
> the standard example dictionary.  Then, any *subsequent* changes to the 
> structure of the values in that container would go undetected (unless 
> the developer had also updated the recursive comparison operation to 
> take into account that the unknown object was a container).

Yes, I see.  Thorny.

What if your recursive comparison operation choked on values of
unknown types rather than falling back on the weak "have same
type" criterion?  That way, the developer who changes the
structure by introducing values of (e.g.) a new dict work-alike
type would see tests fail, which would remind her to add to that
comparison operation the necessary knowledge of the new type.

Fail safe, in other words, where "safe" means "no false positives
from the regression test".

-- 
Steven Taschuk                                                   w_w
staschuk at telusplanet.net                                      ,-= U
                                                               1 1




From randall at tnr.cc  Wed Jul  9 19:02:21 2003
From: randall at tnr.cc (Randall Smith)
Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 23:02:21 GMT
Subject: Why Python
In-Reply-To: <3f0be9ac@news.comindico.com.au>
References: <3f0be9ac@news.comindico.com.au>
Message-ID: <1a1Pa.56247$xg5.26938@twister.austin.rr.com>

Tony Steward wrote:
> Hello All,
> I am looking for a programming language to use to write a database type
> application to run on windows machines. Is python for me or pls suggest what
> is.
> 
> Is there a page that explains in simple terms what Python can do on windows?
> Is there an IDE?
> Is the windows api pre wrapped?
> 
> Thanks
> Tony
> 
> 
Download the version for ActiveState.  It has lots of Windows goodies.

Randall




From danbmil99 at yahoo.com  Tue Jul 22 20:59:08 2003
From: danbmil99 at yahoo.com (dan)
Date: 22 Jul 2003 17:59:08 -0700
Subject: python assignment
Message-ID: <fbf8d8f2.0307221659.1dd1ac77@posting.google.com>

without stirring the pot too much --

could someone please point me to whatever documentation exists on the
philosophy, semantics, and practical implications of how Python
implements the assignment operator?  So far I can't find much useful
in the regular documentation.  I understand the basic concept that
names are bound to objects which exist on the heap, but that still
doesn't explain why a = b doesn't _always_ cause a to point to the
same object as b.  What determines when the object in question is
copied?  What determines when a future maniplulation of the variable
will cause it to point to an object that is already referenced by
another variable? (see code below for an example).

What I need is an exact and unambiguous algorithm for determining when
an assignment will change the id of the variable (or should I say,
when the evaluation of an expression will cause a new object to be
created).  Some of the issues involved can be discerned from the
following session:

>>> a = 1
>>> b = a
>>> a is b
True
>>> a += 1
>>> a -= 1
>>> a is b
True
>>> a = 1.0
>>> b = a
>>> a is b
True
>>> a += 1
>>> a -= 1
>>> a is b
False
>>> a == b
True



From skip at pobox.com  Tue Jul 15 11:14:25 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 10:14:25 -0500
Subject: md5 consistent across platforms/Python versions?
In-Reply-To: <BB399017.29A40%grobinson@transpose.com>
References: <BB399017.29A40%grobinson@transpose.com>
Message-ID: <16148.6737.800694.82908@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    Gary> Can someone tell me whether an MD5 hash using Python's MD5 library
    Gary> IS guaranteed to return the same results for the same input
    Gary> string, across platforms and Python versions?

Gary,

Yes, it is.  MD5 is inherently platform- and language-independent.  The
test_md5.py script in the Python distribution uses the same test inputs as
found in RFC 1321 and produces the same output as the C reference
implementation contained in the RFC.

Skip




From buki at bukis.org  Mon Jul 14 15:14:30 2003
From: buki at bukis.org (Andreas Bauer)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 21:14:30 +0200
Subject: some questions
References: <3f12f613$0$8731$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
Message-ID: <3f130110$0$31819$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>

Andreas Bauer wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> I need some information on how to deal with strings which I have
> divided by using split(). I'm new to python and don't know how to
> handle these split up strings.
> And I some one could recommend a good tutorial I would be very
> glad. Can't hardly find any.
> 
> Thanks in advance.
> 
> Andreas

Could anybody tell me how to hide a varibale e.g. in a url
Example

for i in (0,5):
        u = urllib.urlopen("http://www.versionxzy.com/page - here the variable e.g
                                                       page1,page2,page3...
                                                 -.html

thanks
Andi



From mis6 at pitt.edu  Fri Jul 18 08:01:47 2003
From: mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato)
Date: 18 Jul 2003 05:01:47 -0700
Subject: feature request: a better str.endswith
Message-ID: <2259b0e2.0307180401.5dae02f2@posting.google.com>

I often feel the need to extend  the string method ".endswith" to tuple
arguments, in such a way to automatically check for multiple endings.
For instance, here is a typical use case:

if filename.endswith(('.jpg','.jpeg','.gif','.png')):
    print "This is a valid image file"

Currently this is not valid Python and I must use the ugly

if filename.endswith('.jpg') or filename.endswith('.jpeg') \
   or filename.endswith('.gif') or filename.endswith('.png'):
    print "This is a valid image file"

Of course a direct implementation is quite easy:

import sys

class Str(str):
    def endswith(self,suffix,start=0,end=sys.maxint):#not sure about sys.maxint
        endswith=super(Str,self).endswith
        if isinstance(suffix,tuple):
            return sum([endswith(s,start,end) for s in suffix]) # multi-or
        return endswith(suffix,start,end)

if Str(filename).endswith(('.jpg','.jpeg','.gif','.png')):
    print "This is a valid image file"

nevertheless I think this kind of checking is quite common and it would be
worth to have it in standard Python.

Any reaction, comment ?


                         Michele



From andre.lerche at update.com  Fri Jul 11 11:39:17 2003
From: andre.lerche at update.com (Andre Lerche)
Date: 11 Jul 2003 08:39:17 -0700
Subject: treeview / pygtk problem
References: <eafaf631.0307101053.34cfa08f@posting.google.com> <mailman.1057867154.11801.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <eafaf631.0307110739.fd3aeb3@posting.google.com>

Hi Tim,

Tim Gerla <tim at gerla.net> wrote in message news:<mailman.1057867154.11801.python-list at python.org>...
> On Thu, 2003-07-10 at 11:53, Andre Lerche wrote:
> > Hi list,
[...]
> > renderer = g.CellRendererText ()
> > col1 = g.TreeViewColumn ("col 1", renderer, text=1)
> > col2 = g.TreeViewColumn ("col 2", renderer, text=1)
>                                                ----^
> That's your problem right there: text= expects a sequence from 0 to n.
> So try:
> 
> col1 = g.TreeViewColumn ("col 1", renderer, text=0)
> col2 = g.TreeViewColumn ("col 2", renderer, text=1)
> 
> That should solve your problem!  
> 
> -Tim
> tim at gerla.net

Yes, this has solved my problem, I was really to dumb.

Thanks,

Andre



From eddie at holyrood.ed.ac.uk  Tue Jul 29 10:19:34 2003
From: eddie at holyrood.ed.ac.uk (Eddie Corns)
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 14:19:34 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Python on a USB storage device?
References: <VXcVa.28$HY3.42617@news.uswest.net>
Message-ID: <bg5vpm$32p$1@scotsman.ed.ac.uk>

"Kevin Altis" <altis at semi-retired.com> writes:

>Does anyone have experience running Python from a USB storage device?
>Whether it is the need for doing a demo of your application, doing a bit of
>consulting, or just showing off Python, it would be handy to be able to run
>Python on machines that don't already have Python installed. I'm thinking
>about giving this a try, but wondered if anyone is already doing it and the
>downsides, if any?

>CD-ROM is not very effective because the media is read-only and too big to
>carry in your pocket. I think USB 2.0 is supposed to be roughly 20x faster
>than USB for storage devices, but I'm guessing that if you can live with the
>load times for machines that don't have USB 2.0, plain USB should still be
>effective.

>HP Windows desktops, Linux, and Mac OS X already have Python installed and
>Mac OS X (Panther) will have Python 2.3. But even so, you generally have to
>install additional packages to get the functionality you want. Having all
>you need on a USB storage device and not needing to install anything on the
>host machine seems like it would be very convenient.

Yes, I have an oldish windows Python distribution on a 128Mb stick.  It works
quite nicely but you do have to be aware that without the usual registry
entries it won't search for libraries etc. so well.  I tend to keep all
programs to be run in one directory.  I also pruned lots of stuff out to
minimise space used.  It would be nice to have an installer that allowed you
to selectively install core plus whatever you might actually want.  Or maybe
there is one, I'm not a windows person which is the whole reason for having
this, it allows me to quickly do things on user's machines.

It would work on Linux too except you need to have permission to create mount
tables etc. to get the filesystem.  {Network tip #4265: never ask whether
something can be done, just state that it can't - that'll get you a lot more
responses :)}

Eddie





From gordons_lists at gmx.net  Fri Jul 11 19:21:57 2003
From: gordons_lists at gmx.net (Gordon Wetzstein)
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 01:21:57 +0200 (MEST)
Subject: socket problem
References: <20030711230938.GA22310@intarweb.us>
Message-ID: <955.1057965717@www25.gmx.net>

> On Sat, Jul 12, 2003 at 01:05:27AM +0200, Gordon Wetzstein wrote:
> > Hello everyone,
> > 
> > I have a problem with python sockets. I broadcast a lot of pickled
> objects
> > with socket. sendto(...), that works. Ireceive them on the other site
> with
> > socket.recvfrom(16384) The pickled objects are smaller (like 10000
> bytes)
> > than the max bytes.
> > 
> > The problem appears if I send too many pickled objects very quickly one
> > after another, then I only receive a part of the sent objects. I print
> > them before I send them, they are there but they never reach the
> > destination. When I do a time.sleep(0.1) (but not lesser than 0.1) after
> > socket.send() all is good but it's too slow!
> > 
> > Does anyone know what the problem is? And maybe a solution!
> > 
> 
>   UDP is an inherently unreliable protocol.  If you require reliable data
> transmission, consider using TCP.
> 
>   Jp
> 
> -- 

But then I can't use braodcast, can I?

Gordon

> 

-- 
+++ GMX - Mail, Messaging & more  http://www.gmx.net +++

Jetzt ein- oder umsteigen und USB-Speicheruhr als Pr?mie sichern!





From google at daishi.fastmail.fm  Fri Jul 25 16:30:40 2003
From: google at daishi.fastmail.fm (daishi)
Date: 25 Jul 2003 13:30:40 -0700
Subject: Using getattr to access inherited methods
Message-ID: <d22692a3.0307251230.3ed4aed@posting.google.com>

Hi,

The following code appears to be doing what I'd expect, but
I'm wondering if someone could confirm that there aren't any
"gotchas" hidden in using methods accessed in this way. In
particular, should I be concerned that in the example below,
f is different from g and h when applying f to instances of
test.Sub? For my simple example things appear reasonable, but ...

Thanks,
Daishi

---test.py
class Super:
    def __init__(self):
        self.fn = None
    def applyFn(self, arg):
        if self.fn:
            return self.fn(arg)
        else:
            return "No function defined"

class Sub(Super):
    def __init__(self):
        self.fn = self.aFn
    def aFn(self, x):
        return x+2

---Python shell
% python
Python 2.2.3+ (#1, Jul  5 2003, 11:04:18) 
[GCC 3.3.1 20030626 (Debian prerelease)] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import test
>>> test.Super
<class test.Super at 0x816a2bc>
>>> test.Sub
<class test.Sub at 0x8170bd4>
>>> s = test.Sub()
>>> s.__class__
<class test.Sub at 0x8170bd4>
>>> f = getattr(test.Super, 'applyFn')
>>> g = getattr(test.Sub, 'applyFn')
>>> h = getattr(s.__class__, 'applyFn')
>>> f
<unbound method Super.applyFn>
>>> g
<unbound method Sub.applyFn>
>>> h
<unbound method Sub.applyFn>
>>> f(s, 3)
5
>>> g(s, 3)
5
>>> h(s, 3)
5
>>>



From noemail at nospam.com  Thu Jul  3 20:10:32 2003
From: noemail at nospam.com (python newbie)
Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 00:10:32 GMT
Subject: trying to connect to Amazon web services
References: <u0MMa.1116$ez7.28745829@newssvr15.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <XB3Na.1324$mL7.60424309@newssvr15.news.prodigy.com>

This is what I get, by the way, when I running the script as shown in orig
post. (yes I'm using my actual numbers for wishlist id and for amazon
license). I inserted the 'number not shown' below.
-----------------

http://xml.amazon.com/onca/xml?v=1.0&f=xml&t=webservices-20&dev-t=<num not
shown>
&type=heavy&page=1&WishlistSearch=<num not shown>
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "E:\MyProjects1\python\Amazon\getWishList.py", line 3, in ?
    mywishlist = amazon.searchByWishlist(' number not shown');
  File "E:\MyProjects1\python\Amazon\amazon.py", line 297, in
searchByWishlist
    return search("WishlistSearch", wishlistID, None, type, page,
license_key, h
ttp_proxy)
  File "E:\MyProjects1\python\Amazon\amazon.py", line 251, in search
    raise AmazonError, data.ErrorMsg
amazon.AmazonError: We encountered an error processing your request. Please
retr
y.
----------------

"python newbie" <noemail at nospam.com> wrote in message
news:u0MMa.1116$ez7.28745829 at newssvr15.news.prodigy.com...
> Hey Py fans,
>  I have two basic motivations that I'm going for.
>
> One, to learn Python.
>
> Another, to download the list of 92 books I have added to my Amazon
wishlist
> up to now, so that I could write a clean csv file of these books to my
hard
> drive.
>
> I downloaded the pyAmazon web services package,  and read the code
examples,
> however ( and you probably don't even have to know about pyAmazon to be
able
> to offer a suggestion ) I'm not sure how to connect to the Internet.
>
> My script is so far, this:
> -------------------
> import amazon
> amazon.setLicense('< i put my number here  >')
> mywishlist = amazon.searchByWishlist(' < i put my number here  >');
> ------------
>
> .. I'm going to figure out how to get the book info from the 'mywishlist'
> object later, but if I run this script like this, this doesn't connect to
> the Internet or to Amazon.
>
> How would I do that, I'm wondering?
>
> Thanks
>
>





From usenet at marnanel.org  Tue Jul 29 16:54:55 2003
From: usenet at marnanel.org (Marnanel)
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 16:54:55 -0400
Subject: Showing IP address of a user...
In-Reply-To: <7b454334.0307291005.53ee8c07@posting.google.com>
References: <7b454334.0307291005.53ee8c07@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <I-udnVcx4Na9QruiRTvUqA@speakeasy.net>

Fazer wrote:
> I was wondering how I can show an IP address of a person who visits a
> Python web-page?  Would I have to use Environment variables to access
> Apache's server variables which hold such values like in PHP or what?

This is defined by the Common Gateway Interface, so it should be the 
same across all HTTP servers. It's certainly going to work the same way 
across all languages on the same HTTP server.

os.environ is your friend:

   import os
   print 'Content-Type: text/plain'
   print
   print os.environ['REMOTE_ADDR']

(<URL:http://hoohoo.ncsa.uiuc.edu/cgi/> has the specification of all the 
environment variables, in case you need more.)

M




From max at alcyone.com  Sat Jul 12 19:12:29 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 16:12:29 -0700
Subject: new in town
References: <AeVPa.445271$Vi5.11496890@news1.calgary.shaw.ca> <mailman.1058024839.27499.python-list@python.org> <xBYPa.418026$3C2.11372267@news3.calgary.shaw.ca> <jkZPa.75780$ZC.9188@news.easynews.com>
Message-ID: <3F1095DD.D890936@alcyone.com>

Joe Francia wrote:

> Gerhard is undeserving of your flippancy.

I didn't detect flippancy, just a request for more concrete information.

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ Now I must follow them!
\__/  Beowulf, King of the Geats



From doug.hendricks at tnzi.com  Wed Jul 30 00:11:25 2003
From: doug.hendricks at tnzi.com (the_rev_dharma_roadkill)
Date: 29 Jul 2003 21:11:25 -0700
Subject: Python 2.3c2
References: <fb91dbec.0307242153.74aacbc2@posting.google.com> <mailman.1059149388.24352.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <fb91dbec.0307292011.57b8df83@posting.google.com>

Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.1059149388.24352.python-list at python.org>...
> >>>>> "Doug" == the rev dharma roadkill <doug.hendricks at tnzi.com> writes:
> 
>     Doug> Just grabbed and tried it on Tru64 5.1A (hp/compaq alpha ES40):
>     Doug> Looks good:
>     Doug> make test gives:
>     Doug> ............
>     Doug> 221 tests OK.
>     Doug> 34 tests skipped:
>     Doug>     test_aepack test_al test_audioop test_bsddb test_bsddb3 test_bz2
>     Doug>     test_cd test_cl test_curses test_dl test_email_codecs test_gdbm
>     Doug>     test_gl test_imageop test_imgfile test_linuxaudiodev test_locale
>     Doug>     test_macfs test_macostools test_mpz test_nis test_normalization
>     Doug>     test_ossaudiodev test_pep277 test_plistlib test_rgbimg
>     Doug>     test_scriptpackages test_socket_ssl test_socketserver
>     Doug>     test_sunaudiodev test_timeout test_urllibnet test_winreg
>     Doug>     test_winsound
>     Doug> Ask someone to teach regrtest.py about which tests are
>     Doug> expected to get skipped on osf1V5.
> 
> Doug,
> 
> Can you confirm that you anticipate those skips on osf1V5?  If so, I'll
> the appropriate entry in regrtest.py.
> 
> Also, assuming you're connected to a network, can you try:
> 
>     ./python Lib/test/regrtest.py -unetwork
> 
> where you executed make test before?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Skip

Sorry!  I didn't look back here at this note until 2.3final was
released (some help I am).

I'm a python newbie so I'm not sure what to expect of test skipping.
We don't have berkeley db or gdbm.
We don't use our machine as a web server and most webby services are
shut off.
Our network and firewall are fairly restrictive.

On running ./python Lib/test/regrtest.py -unetwork
ON PYTHON 2.3FINAL
we get:
test test_socket_ssl crashed -- exceptions.IOError: [Errno socket
error] (61, 'Connection refused')
test test_timeout failed -- Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/u13/home/doug/python/Python-2.3/Lib/test/test_timeout.py",
line 127, in
 testRecvTimeout
    self.sock.connect(self.addr_remote)
  File "<string>", line 1, in connect
error: (61, 'Connection refused')
test test_urllibnet failed -- errors occurred; run in verbose mode for
details
...
222 tests OK.
3 tests failed:
    test_socket_ssl test_timeout test_urllibnet
30 tests skipped:
    test_aepack test_al test_audioop test_bsddb test_bsddb3 test_bz2
    test_cd test_cl test_curses test_dl test_email_codecs test_gdbm
    test_gl test_imageop test_imgfile test_linuxaudiodev test_locale
    test_macfs test_macostools test_mpz test_nis test_normalization
    test_ossaudiodev test_pep277 test_plistlib test_rgbimg
    test_scriptpackages test_sunaudiodev test_winreg test_winsound
Ask someone to teach regrtest.py about which tests are
expected to get skipped on osf1V5.

Again, sorry I didn't get back to you sooner.  I've only started to
look at Python in the last few weeks.

Doug



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Sat Jul 12 14:39:07 2003
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 14:39:07 -0400
Subject: The "intellectual property" misnomer
References: <mailman.1057978117.8939.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <X5idnYY8s7xRyI2iXTWJiA@comcast.com>

"Tim Peters" <tim.one at comcast.net> wrote in message
news:mailman.1057978117.8939.python-list at python.org...

> [Ben Finney]
> > If the PSF holds the copyright to Python, please say that.
> >
> > If the PSF holds patents which cover Python, please say that.
> >
> > If the PSF owns the trademark for Python, please say that.
> >
> > If the PSF has trade secrets in Python, please say that.
>
> So you somehow managed to divine Guido's intent from that
"ridiculous,
> meaningless term" <0.5 wink> -- part of the PSF's business is indeed
dealing
> with all legalities affecting the use of Python.  I don't think
pedantic
> verbosity makes it any clearer, but may mislead due to omission.

In response to a query of mine, someone -- I believe you, Tim -- said
that CNRI, not PSF, was still attempting to trademark 'Python' as
applied to computer languages (but having some difficulty).  Last I
know, CNRI still has copyrights to Python 1.?-1.6.  So I was a bit
puzzled as to what Guido meant by his blanket statement.

Has CNRI (and the Dutch institute before it) renounced its (their)
'IP' claims with respect to Python in favor of PSF?  If not, then "The
PSF holds the intellectual property rights for Python" would not be
true as commonly interpreted, at least as by this commoner.  (But then
I know that Guido most definitely ain't a lawyer).

Terry J. Reedy



Terry J. Reedy





From ny_r_marquez at yahoo.com  Wed Jul 23 10:29:51 2003
From: ny_r_marquez at yahoo.com (R.Marquez)
Date: 23 Jul 2003 07:29:51 -0700
Subject: Future Warning with win32com code
Message-ID: <8a27e309.0307230629.66d15fd8@posting.google.com>

I finally got around to start testing some of my old apps with Python
2.3.  I've had no problems so far, but I did get one intriging
warning.  The following is from the Python Command Line:

Python 2.3c1 (#44, Jul 18 2003, 14:32:36) [MSC v.1200 32 bit (Intel)]
on win32
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import win32com.client
>>> ie=win32com.client.DispatchEx('InternetExplorer.Application.1')
>>> ie.Navigate('http://webserver/SomePage.asp')
>>> print ie.ReadyState
D:\Py23\lib\site-packages\win32com\client\dynamic.py:446:
FutureWarning:
%u/%o/%x/%X of negative int will return a signed string in Python 2.4
and up
  debug_attr_print("Getting property Id 0x%x from OLE object" %
retEntry.dispid)

4
>>>

The code works well, as can be seen by the returned result.  But what
I want to know is what needs to be done to avoid any problems in the
future, with 2.4.  Should I submit this to the Win32 extensions
project?  Or is it so obvious that it will undoubtedly by resolved and
I shouldn't worry about it?



From ianb at colorstudy.com  Fri Jul  4 02:27:44 2003
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: 04 Jul 2003 01:27:44 -0500
Subject: CGI script is in plain text
In-Reply-To: <3F052F2F.1426.547BB32@localhost>
References: <3F04B0A4.32692.3596CD0@localhost>
	 <3F052F2F.1426.547BB32@localhost>
Message-ID: <1057300063.13132.30.camel@lothlorien>

On Fri, 2003-07-04 at 00:39, BMA TRADING wrote:
> > Try renaming the file to .cgi -- as long as the #! line is right, it
> > doesn't matter the extension.  Also, you may have to put the script in
> > the cgi-bin directory.
> > 
> >   Ian
> > 
> Dear Ian,
> Thank you for your reply.
> I tried to rename it but it does NOT work.
> In the same directory I can successfully run Perl script( .pl extension) but no Python 
> scripts.
> Any idea?

Well, be sure the file is set as executable ("chmod +x filename").  If
all else fails, try a .pl extension :)  Who knows... might just work.

  Ian






From madsurfer2000 at hotmail.com  Sun Jul 20 12:28:36 2003
From: madsurfer2000 at hotmail.com (-)
Date: 20 Jul 2003 09:28:36 -0700
Subject: Strings and Unicode
References: <fef0a228.0307200027.2ef962e9@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <fef0a228.0307200828.6c171de7@posting.google.com>

I wrote:
> I have a function that takes a string as an input parameter. This
> function then urlencodes the string and sends it to a server with
> telnetlib.Telnet
> 
> The problem is that the string gets converted into what seems to be
> Unicode. How can I check to see if the input-string is Unicode and
> convert it to a different character set (in this case ISO-Latin1).

I see that my question may have been asked in the wrong way, so here's
more details:

I'm using Python 2.2.2. under Windows XP. The function I was talking
about actually takes two strings, and I send both parameters to the
urlencode function. The urlencode-function I use is imported from
urllib.

My function:

def addPOSTParam(self,name,value):
    param = urlencode({name: value})
    self.POSTParameters.append(param)

Example:

client.addPOSTParam("param","abc ?")

POSTParameters then looks like:
['param=abc+%C3%A6']

Here, the '?' character is converted into what seems to be Unicode

I would have expected the following:
['param=abc+%E6']

type(value) gives:
<type 'str'>

I probably should have tested type() before, because it seems to be a
standard string.

Hope this explains my problem better. As you probably have guessed I'm
trying to send information to a web-server, but since this is mostly a
project for learning, I don't want to use the included HTTP classes.



From djc at object-craft.com.au  Mon Jul 14 00:25:12 2003
From: djc at object-craft.com.au (Dave Cole)
Date: 14 Jul 2003 14:25:12 +1000
Subject: Can't install csv parser
References: <MPG.197b80c54e88b1489896a6@news.in.comcast.giganews.com> <3f11ba56$0$6532$afc38c87@sisyphus.news.be.easynet.net>
Message-ID: <m3r84tivkn.fsf@ferret.object-craft.com.au>

>>>>> "Bernard" == Bernard Delm?e <bdelmee at advalvas.REMOVEME.be> writes:

>> I'm hoping someone can help me.  I've downloaded the csv.pyd file
>> from http://www.object-craft.com.au/projects/csv/download.html and
>> put it into my C:\Python22\DLLs directory.

Bernard> Mmh...works for me - ActivePython 2.2.2 Are you sure you
Bernard> downloaded the pyd file corresponding to your python version?
Bernard> Running the MS "depends" utility on csv.pyd reveals that it
Bernard> only needs python22.dll, msvcrt.dll and kernel32.dll. Are
Bernard> these all on your PATH?

>> Traceback (most recent call last): File "<pyshell#0>", line 1, in ?
>> import csv

Bernard> What's pyshell? did you try from good ole trusty python.exe
Bernard> in a DOS box?

Try putting the .pyd in C:\Python22\Lib\site-packages

- Dave

-- 
http://www.object-craft.com.au



From max at alcyone.com  Wed Jul  2 03:12:48 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 00:12:48 -0700
Subject: Good code patterns in Python
References: <cb035744.0307010149.399df2eb@posting.google.com> <XevMa.4146$Vx2.2206981@newssvr28.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <3F0285F0.EDF697E3@alcyone.com>

Kirk Job-Sluder wrote:

> Will Stuyvesant <hwlgw at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > If you know that your source code is going to be used
> > later by others, then I feel that code with the pattern:
> >
> >    if some_condition:
> >        some_name = some_value
> >    else:
> >        some_name = other_value
> >
> > is often a mistake.  Much better, safer, would be:
> >
> >    some_name = some_value
> >    if not some_condition:
> >        some_name = other_value
> >
> > Why?
> 
> My personal opinion is that it depends on context.  The first idiom
> is more clear when you are dealing with some kind of a switch.  The
> second idiom works better if you have a default value that needs to be
> overridden in some cases.

I presume the "mistake" he's referring to with the first snippet is the
potential problem that could happen if the variable is named
incorrectly:

	if condition:
	    variable = someValue
	else:
	    varaible = otherValue # [sic] note the typo!

When you really want an atomic assignment of one singular variable.  The
complete solution to this would probably be a conditional expression,
e.g.:

	variable = (if condition: someValue else: otherValue)

eliminating the duplication which can lead to errors.  (Python, of
course, doesn't have such a construct, and the silence after the
conditional expression PEP vote and the long silence thereafter suggests
that it never will.)

I still don't think this significant of a risk to warrant widespread
conversion of statements to the form Will suggests, especially when you
have things like PyChecker that can check for (probable) typos.  It's a
slightly unfortunate wart in dynamic languages without conditional
operators, but I don't think it rises to the level of something that
should be corrected via such (what seems to me) a heavy-handed style.

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ When the solution is simple, God is answering.
\__/  Albert Einstein



From sismex01 at hebmex.com  Wed Jul  2 12:05:29 2003
From: sismex01 at hebmex.com (sismex01 at hebmex.com)
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 11:05:29 -0500 
Subject: My Big Dict.
Message-ID: <F7DB8D13DB61D511B6FF00B0D0F062330547A02F@mail.hebmex.com>

> From: psimmo60 at hotmail.com [mailto:psimmo60 at hotmail.com] 
> Sent: Mi?rcoles, 02 de Julio de 2003 08:32 a.m.
> 
> [...snippage...]
>
> d={}
> for l in file("test.txt"):
>     try: i=l.index('!')
>     except ValueError: continue
>     d[l[:i]]=l[i+1:]
> 
> 

This example is *almost* ideal; how about, instead of
using .index and slices, let the computer do s'more
of your work:


D = {}
for line in file("test.txt"):
    try:
        k,v = line.split("!",1)
        D[k] = v.strip()
    except ValueError:
        continue


and presto.  split() takes an optional second argument
which specifies the maximum number of splits it's
allowed to perform.

Also, although I've kept your basic code form, it's
bad style to not explicitly close any opened files,
unless you absolutely know they're going to close
once the operation finishes.

-gustavo

--
Advertencia:La informacion contenida en este mensaje es confidencial y
restringida, por lo tanto esta destinada unicamente para el uso de la
persona arriba indicada, se le notifica que esta prohibida la difusion de
este mensaje. Si ha recibido este mensaje por error, o si hay problemas en
la transmision, favor de comunicarse con el remitente. Gracias.




From jack at performancedrivers.com  Tue Jul 15 10:40:39 2003
From: jack at performancedrivers.com (Jack Diederich)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 10:40:39 -0400
Subject: Confusing automated translators.
In-Reply-To: <oqbrvvhnqm.fsf@alcyon.progiciels-bpi.ca>; from pinard@iro.umontreal.ca on Tue, Jul 15, 2003 at 10:24:17AM -0400
References: <37d6f77c.0307130932.1e3adf0d@posting.google.com> <3f11ac74$0$49101$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl> <ad052e5c.0307131718.4903430d@posting.google.com> <3F12808B.E53193B8@hotmail.com> <87brvw3ula.fsf@pobox.com> <oqbrvvhnqm.fsf@alcyon.progiciels-bpi.ca>
Message-ID: <20030715104039.F1005@localhost.localdomain>

On Tue, Jul 15, 2003 at 10:24:17AM -0400, Francois Pinard wrote:
> [John J. Lee]
> 
> > Alan Kennedy <alanmk at hotmail.com> writes:
> 
> > > I'd love to hear of other similar phrases.  And somehow I intuit
> > > there's people in this ng who know lots of them :-)
> 
> > There are so many...
> 
> Automated translators which ignore punctuation are pretty fragile, too.
> Here is a case where the exact same words are used, besides punctuation.

My favorite example is comifying a list.
"1, 2, and 3" vs "1, 2 and 3" (journalist seem to prefer the later)

"I dedicate this book to my parents, Jane, and God."
"I dedicate this book to my parents, Jane and God."

-jack




From heafnerj at spam.vnet.net  Tue Jul 15 09:39:07 2003
From: heafnerj at spam.vnet.net (Joe Heafner)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 08:39:07 -0500
Subject: Mac OS X, Fink, Python, and web browser
Message-ID: <pdacncvRO_lmnomiU-KYuQ@ctc.net>

Hi.
I'm running Mac OS X (10.2.6), Fink 0.5.3, Python2.2 and all requisite 
libraries, VPython (http://www.vpython.org). VPython comes with and 
installs IDLE_fork. Pressing F1 inside IDLE_fork is supposed to bring up 
help documents in the system's default web browser. 

Could someone please tell me where and how to get IDLE_fork to use Safari 
(1.0)? 

JH




From mmuller at enduden.spam.filter.com  Fri Jul 25 16:47:14 2003
From: mmuller at enduden.spam.filter.com (Michael Muller)
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 16:47:14 -0400
Subject: Static typing
References: <LvdUa.905$DU.696@fe12.atl2.webusenet.com> <zaudnTlMlfdM77yiU-KYuQ@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <lwgUa.5181$21.3140@fe09.atl2.webusenet.com>

Thanks for bringing Pyrex to my attention: I haven't seen it before and
it looks like a really nice tool for writing extensions.

In article <zaudnTlMlfdM77yiU-KYuQ at comcast.com>, "Terry Reedy"
<tjreedy at udel.edu> wrote:
> AFAIK, There is no consensus and no concrete plans for Python itself.
> However, there are various third party efforts.  Pyrex is, in part,
> Python + type declarations for C compilation.  Weave implicitly types
> vars as ints or floats. Psyco make declaration unnecessary.  Terry J.
> Reedy
> 



-- 
Remove the spam and filter components to get my e-mail address.




From afriere at yahoo.co.uk  Thu Jul 31 22:34:30 2003
From: afriere at yahoo.co.uk (Asun Friere)
Date: 31 Jul 2003 19:34:30 -0700
Subject: Misuse of <tab>
References: <3f27f0e3$1@news.broadpark.no> <RbTVa.8214$gU6.967766@twister.nyc.rr.com> <pan.2003.07.30.20.07.18.351027@cs.rit.edu> <38ec68a6.0307301841.dfb951a@posting.google.com> <bgbqmu$ksv$1@flood.xnet.com>
Message-ID: <38ec68a6.0307311834.7f96017b@posting.google.com>

ansible at typhoon.xnet.com (James Graves) wrote in message news:<bgbqmu$ksv$1 at flood.xnet.com>...

> That's handy.  I had known about 'set expandtab' for a while, but I
> wanted to figure out how to use it for just Python.

Note how Keith Jones, in the following post, achieves the same:

au FileType python set et

I wasn't aware of the 'FileType' setting, but it has the advantage of
working with files which vim recognises as python source, but which
don't necessarily end in 'py'.  Nice!



From bokr at oz.net  Mon Jul 28 22:07:14 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 29 Jul 2003 02:07:14 GMT
Subject: pretty printing graphs
References: <mailman.1059412614.26573.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bg4ksi$spe$0@216.39.172.122>

On Mon, 28 Jul 2003 12:13:10 -0500, John Hunter <jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu> wrote:

>
>I have a tree structure (directed acyclic graph), where each node can
>represent itself as a multi-line string that is not very wide (eg, 10
>chars per line).  I would like to print the graph like
>
>        C
>   C1        C2
>C1a  C1b   C2a   C2b
>
The outline format is not good? I.e.,

C
  C1
    C1a
    C1b
  C2
    C2a
    C2b

An outline would be simple to print recursively.
[... snip code etc ...]
>
>This does part of the work, printing the child nodes on the same rows,
>but doesn't the hierarchical part very well.  What I would like is
>something like this:
>
>			 1  2  3  0  
>			 1  2  3  4 
>			 1  2  1  5 
>			 1  2  1  1 
>			 4  3  2  2 
>			 4  3  2  7 
>			 2  3  2  3 
>			 2  3  2  9
> 
>	       1  2  3  0        4  3  2  2      
>	       1  2  3  4        4  3  2  7      
>	       1  2  1  5        2  3  2  3      
>	       1  2  1  1        2  3  2  9      
>	       ----------        ----------      
>	       1  1  0  0        0  1  1  0      
>
>
>1  2  1  5    1  2  3  0          2  3  2  3      4  3  2  2      
>1  2  1  1    1  2  3  4          2  3  2  9      4  3  2  7      
>----------    ----------          ----------      ----------      
>1  1  1  0    1  1  1  0          1  1  1  0      1  1  1  0      
>
>
>
How about (I added a name in the first node line for debugging, and boxing):
(code follows output). Not tested much ;-)

[19:04] C:\pywk\clp>python pphunter.py
                                 +----------+
                                 |        n0|
                                 |1  2  3  0|
                                 |1  2  3  4|
                                 |1  2  1  5|
                                 |1  2  1  1|
                                 |4  3  2  2|
                                 |4  3  2  7|
                                 |2  3  2  3|
                                 |2  3  2  9|
                                 +----------+

              +----------+                           +----------+
              |        n1|                           |        n2|
              |1  2  3  0|                           |4  3  2  2|
              |1  2  3  4|                           |4  3  2  7|
              |1  2  1  5|                           |2  3  2  3|
              |1  2  1  1|                           |2  3  2  9|
              |----------|                           |----------|
              |1  1  0  0|                           |0  1  1  0|
              +----------+                           +----------+

     +----------+       +----------+        +----------+       +----------+
     |       n1a|       |       n1b|        |       n2a|       |       n2b|
     |1  2  1  5|       |1  2  3  0|        |2  3  2  3|       |4  3  2  2|
     |1  2  1  1|       |1  2  3  4|        |2  3  2  9|       |4  3  2  7|
     |----------|       |----------|        |----------|       |----------|
     |1  1  1  0|       |1  1  1  0|        |1  1  1  0|       |1  1  1  0|
     +----------+       +----------+        +----------+       +----------+


====< pphunter.py >==============================================
from __future__ import division, generators

def enumerate(seq):
    "Waiting for python 2.3"
    for i in range(len(seq)):
        yield i, seq[i]

class TextBox:
    def __init__(self, text):
        self.text = text
        lines = text.splitlines()
        self.bb = len(lines)+2, max(map(len, lines))+2 # rows,cols bounding box
    def __str__(self):
        return self.text 

class Node:
    PageHeight = 6*11; PageWidth = 78
    def __repr__(self): return '<Node w/ text %r ...>'%self.textBox.text.splitlines()[0]
    def treebb(self):  # tree bb incl this node
        childMaxHeight, childTotWidth = 0, 0
        for child in self.children:
            h, w = child.treebb()
            childMaxHeight = max(childMaxHeight, h)
            childTotWidth += w
        ret = childMaxHeight+self.textBox.bb[0], max(childTotWidth, self.textBox.bb[1])
        return ret
    def __init__(self, textBox):
        self.textBox = textBox
        self.children = []

    def boxlines(node, boxHeight, boxWidth):
        oh, ow = node.textBox.bb    # this node top text box bb
        th, tw = node.treebb()      # minimal child tree bb incl text box at top
        
        render = ['']*boxHeight
        ofmt = '|%%%ds|'% (ow-2)
        render[0] = ('+'+'-'*(ow-2)+'+').center(boxWidth)
        iLine=1
        for line in node.textBox.text.splitlines():
            render[iLine] = (ofmt%line).center(boxWidth)
            iLine += 1
        render[iLine] = render[0]
        iLine += 1
        if node.children:
            availSepSpaces = boxWidth - tw
            nch = len(node.children)
            sep = nch>1 and availSepSpaces//nch or 0
            childBoxes = []
            for child in node.children:
                chh, chw = child.treebb()
                childBoxes.append(child.boxlines(boxHeight-oh-1, sep and chw+sep or boxWidth))
            cbhs = map(len, childBoxes); assert max(cbhs)==min(cbhs) # all child boxes same ht
            for iChildline in xrange(cbhs[0]):
                iLine += 1
                render[iLine] = ''.join(
                    [childBox[iChildline] for childBox in childBoxes]
                ).center(boxWidth)

        for iLine in range(boxHeight):
            if not render[iLine]: render[iLine] = ' '*boxWidth
        return render
        
    def __str__(self):
        return '\n'.join(self.boxlines(self.PageHeight, self.PageWidth))

    def showInPage(self, pageHeight=6*11, pageWidth=78):
        return '\n'.join(self.boxlines(PageHeight, PageWidth))

def test():
    n0 = Node(TextBox("""n0
1  2  3  0
1  2  3  4
1  2  1  5
1  2  1  1
4  3  2  2
4  3  2  7
2  3  2  3
2  3  2  9
"""))

    n1 = Node(TextBox("""n1
1  2  3  0
1  2  3  4
1  2  1  5
1  2  1  1
----------
1  1  0  0
"""))

    n2 = Node(TextBox("""n2
4  3  2  2
4  3  2  7
2  3  2  3
2  3  2  9
----------
0  1  1  0
"""))

    n1a = Node(TextBox("""n1a
1  2  1  5
1  2  1  1
----------
1  1  1  0
"""))

    n1b = Node(TextBox("""n1b
1  2  3  0
1  2  3  4
----------
1  1  1  0
"""))

    n2a = Node(TextBox("""n2a
2  3  2  3
2  3  2  9
----------
1  1  1  0
"""))

    n2b = Node(TextBox("""n2b
4  3  2  2
4  3  2  7
----------
1  1  1  0
"""))

    n0.children.extend([n1, n2])
    n1.children.extend([n1a, n1b])
    n2.children.extend([n2a, n2b])

    print n0

if __name__ == '__main__': test()
=================================================================

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From ianb at colorstudy.com  Mon Jul  7 16:01:12 2003
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: 07 Jul 2003 15:01:12 -0500
Subject: Python vs PHP
In-Reply-To: <3F094FA4.9030800@ploiesti.astral.ro>
References: <3F094FA4.9030800@ploiesti.astral.ro>
Message-ID: <1057608071.5348.320.camel@lothlorien>

On Mon, 2003-07-07 at 05:47, Catalin wrote:
> Can Python replace PHP?
> Can I use a python program to make an interface to a mysql 4.X database?
> If that's possible where can I find a tutorial?

Unlike PHP, Python does not have a single model for creating web pages. 
See http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/moinmoin/WebProgramming for a slightly
intimidating list of options.  If you feel comfortable with PHP, I would
advise using a similar system in Python, probably Spyce.  Webware also
has a PSP component, which is slightly more like JSP than ASP (and PHP
is more like ASP).  I believe mod_python will have a PSP option (but I
don't know where or if it's finished).  

What you should remember when moving away from PHP, is that you no
longer have to use the server-page metaphor -- most of your application
logic should be in plain Python modules.  Then you'll use your PSP (or
similar) page to present that code and respond to user input.

Python has good database access, look for MySQLdb, and the DB-API
documentation applies as well.  There's several wrappers to make
database programming easier, see: 
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/moinmoin/HigherLevelDatabaseProgramming
For MySQL there's my own wrapper, SQLObject, as well as MiddleKi, PyDO,
and dbObj.  For something a little lighter you might want to try SQLDict
for ll.sql -- I think you will find even these simple wrappers will take
a huge weight off your program compared to normal PHP MySQL usage.

  Ian






From jeremy at alum.mit.edu  Tue Jul  8 08:54:44 2003
From: jeremy at alum.mit.edu (Jeremy Hylton)
Date: 08 Jul 2003 08:54:44 -0400
Subject: urllib2 for HTTPS/SSL
In-Reply-To: <153fa67.0307080233.2f7abdf5@posting.google.com>
References: <153fa67.0307080233.2f7abdf5@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1057668883.2342.17.camel@slothrop.zope.com>

On Tue, 2003-07-08 at 06:33, Kylotan wrote:
> The documentation on this module doesn't seem very clear to me...
> there's an 'HTTPSHandler' object documented, but it just lists the
> "https_open" function without giving an example of its use. And the
> urllib2 examples page shows a totally different way to create an HTTPS
> connection (just by making a Request object). There is a lot of talk
> about deriving new classes, but is that necessary if I just want to
> make HTTPS GET requests?
> 
> I have no idea how (or if) to use the 'HTTPSHandler' object, or what
> the correct way for me to request an SSL connection is. Does anybody
> have any hints? And additionally, is there any chance of the official
> documentation on this useful-looking module being improved?

Unless I misunderstand your intent, you don't need to use the Handler
object directly.  HTTPS support is provided automatically, so long as
your local Python has SSL support.  (It should.)

Here's an example:

f = urllib2.urlopen("https://sf.net/")
buf = f.read()
f.close()

The module is included in the standard library docs.  They are brief,
but do provide some examples:

http://www.python.org/dev/doc/devel/lib/urllib2-examples.html

Jeremy






From tomas at fancy.org  Tue Jul 15 18:16:40 2003
From: tomas at fancy.org (Tom Plunket)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 15:16:40 -0700
Subject: anything like C++ references?
References: <b8c3hvsesjoumiboobml3nsnajtha99mp1@4ax.com> <mailman.1058129901.28248.python-list@python.org> <plk3hv0s1m2egf4s34jo6vjedk0q8r2mu9@4ax.com> <hflQa.48826$wk6.12216@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net> <rp94hvc8fg6h91oe7ctqq9jn9ku3nlud1k@4ax.com> <slrnbh6fbc.72v.kamikaze@kuoi.asui.uidaho.edu> <tdo6hvo40qaga46ekamfe65opn2aaa9b41@4ax.com> <slrnbh7l94.mti.kamikaze@kuoi.asui.uidaho.edu> <frn8hvggtom4vqen1s0ktr1hijfm9cvfe7@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <i8v8hvk49lpessg82hgg8jreafp8em8sbk@4ax.com>

Stephen Horne wrote:

>   std::string x = "123";
>   std::string y = x;
> 
>   //  At this point, in most implementations, x and y are bound to the
>   //  same object due to a lazy copy optimisation.

Actually, that isn't the case these days.  I'm sure there are
some who do this optimization still, but it is incredibly hard to
do so in a thread-safe manner so all of the heavies as far as I
know don't do it anymore.

-tom!

-- 
There's really no reason to send a copy of your
followup to my email address, so please don't.



From nushin2 at yahoo.com  Mon Jul 28 22:33:36 2003
From: nushin2 at yahoo.com (nushin)
Date: 28 Jul 2003 19:33:36 -0700
Subject: How to disable output messages of the child process, in spawnv( )?
References: <db3b6d24.0307231050.74d41e66@posting.google.com> <3f1eddc9$0$160$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <db3b6d24.0307231756.cff8af9@posting.google.com> <1059059614.658900@yasure>
Message-ID: <db3b6d24.0307281833.69be1492@posting.google.com>

Thanks Donn. I resolved the issue. If i do the following the output of
the child process is disabled:

os.spawnv(os.P_NOWAIT,'/usr/bin/python',('python hello.py >/dev/null
&'))

but, if some one needs to see the output of the child process spawned
by parent, then this does it:

os.spawnv(os.P_NOWAIT,'/usr/bin/python',('python','hello.py'),('>/dev/null
&'))

(I believe in Python tricks :-)

Regards,
Nushin

"Donn Cave" <donn at drizzle.com> wrote in message news:<1059059614.658900 at yasure>...
> Quoth nushin2 at yahoo.com (nushin):
> | Is there any trick to disable the output of a child process spawned by
> | spawnv( ) API?
> 
> No.
> 
> | I believe in Python and i am sure there's a way around it. Correct me
> | if i am wrong.
> 
> You believe in tricks, is the problem.  Read what people are telling you.
> You can redirect output of a command, you can do it Python, but the only
> way to do it in spawnv is to make spawnv execute a shell command.
> 
> 	Donn Cave, donn at drizzle.com
> 
> | grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards) wrote in message news:<3f1eddc9$0$160$a1866201 at newsreader.visi.com>...
> |> In article <db3b6d24.0307231050.74d41e66 at posting.google.com>, nushin wrote:
> |> > I'd like to disable the output of the process spawned by spawnv( )
> |> > API, but the catch is that i *have to* see the output of the parent
> |> > process making the  spawnv( ) call. Has anyone done that? I have some
> |> > pointers that by using dup2( ) API i might be able to do that, any
> |> > ideas how? Also, i have to spawn as an asynch call, using P_NOWAIT,
> |> > e.g.,:
> |> > 
> |> > os.spawnv(os.P_NOWAIT,'/usr/bin/python',('python','hello.py'),('>/dev/null &'))
> |> 
> |> Nope.  
> |> 
> |> The ">" and "&" are things that a shell (like bash or ksh)
> |> handles.  The python interpreter has no idea what to do with
> |> them.  If you want to use ">" and "&", then spawn a shell, and
> |> pass it a command to run the python program with output
> |> redirected.



From fredrik at pythonware.com  Wed Jul  9 04:10:24 2003
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 10:10:24 +0200
Subject: Image Streaming
References: <381a2b17.0307072326.211c21b5@posting.google.com> <beetng$q06$1@peabody.colorado.edu>
Message-ID: <begjts$968$1@main.gmane.org>

Fernando Perez wrote:

> For barcodes, use png, tiff or even gif (the patents expired recently).

note that PIL's GIF generator uses run-length encoding, so the
Unisys LZW patents won't matter here.

</F>







From tim.one at comcast.net  Mon Jul  7 00:41:27 2003
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 00:41:27 -0400
Subject: anything new on the ternary operator?
In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20030706171559.02597288@66.28.54.253>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCKEIAENAB.tim.one@comcast.net>

[Bob Gailer]
> Last I heard it was killed by Guido,

Confirmed (I asked him; he answered <wink>).

> which makes me wonder why we spent so much time discussing and voting.

If he had accepted it, people who were opposed to it may have wondered the
same thing.  IOW, the specific outcome doesn't appear to have anything to do
with the gist of what you're saying, here or below.

> If he did not want it I wish he had killed it at the start.

Likewise, if he did want it, I wish he had accepted it at the start.  But he
said at the start that he was neither opposed nor in favor, so neither form
of this conditional gets off the ground.

> I thought the vote was to determine the best choice, and I was looking
> forward to having it.

There were many creative interpretations of the vote counts, but none of
them showed the consensus Guido said at the start would be needed for
adoption.

> <grumble>Makes me wonder about the whole PEP process.

Voting isn't a normal part of the PEP process.  This was the second vote in
Python's history.  The first was to pick whether "i" or "j" would be used to
denote imaginary literals (another case where Guido had no preference).  The
"i" camp still complains about that one too <0.9j wink>.

> Why bother! </grumble>

For you with perfect hindsight, or for Guido with perfect foresight, there
wouldn't have been any point.  Given that the outcome wasn't known in
advance, there was some point at the time.





From egbert.list at hccnet.nl  Thu Jul 24 17:44:57 2003
From: egbert.list at hccnet.nl (Egbert Bouwman)
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 23:44:57 +0200
Subject: Don't want to do the regexp test twice
Message-ID: <20030724214457.GA874@mirk.lan>

While looping over a long list (with file records)
I use an (also long) if..elif sequence.
One of these elif's tests a regular expression, and 
if the test succeeds, I want to use a part of the match.
Something like this:

pat = re.compile(r'...')
for line in mylist:
    if ... :
        ....
    elif ... :
        ....
    elif pat.search(line):
        mat = pat.search(line)
    elif ... :
       ...
    else ...:
       ...
Is there a way to to do this job with only one pat.search(line) ?
Of course I can do this:

for line in mylist:
    mat = pat.search(line)
    if  ...:
        ....
    elif ...:
        ....
    elif mat:
        ...
but the test is relevant in only a relatively small number of cases.    
And i would like to know if there exists a general solution
for this kind of problem.
egbert

-- 
Egbert Bouwman - Keizersgracht 197 II - 1016 DS  Amsterdam - 020 6257991
========================================================================




From andersjm at dancontrol.dk  Tue Jul 29 11:41:06 2003
From: andersjm at dancontrol.dk (Anders J. Munch)
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 17:41:06 +0200
Subject: variable assignment in "while" loop
References: <slrnbicoqq.6gh.sybrenUSE@sybren.thirdtower.com> <bg5vtj$68i$1@panix1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <3f2695ca$0$76124$edfadb0f@dread11.news.tele.dk>

"Aahz" <aahz at pythoncraft.com> wrote:
> 
> Peter usually gives a good answer, but this time there's a better
> answer:

With a bug, but if we combine Peter's answer with yours we get an
even better answer:

def fetch_iter(mydbcursor):
    while 1:
        info = mydbcursor.fetchone()
        if not info:
            break
        yield info

- Anders





From steve at ferg.org  Fri Jul  4 11:46:03 2003
From: steve at ferg.org (Stephen Ferg)
Date: 4 Jul 2003 08:46:03 -0700
Subject: Python Code Snippets
References: <be1hs0$111s$1@biggoron.nerim.net>
Message-ID: <b16e4ef7.0307040746.bebf037@posting.google.com>

http://www.ferg.org/grimoire/grimoire.html



From vincent_delft at yahoo.com  Sun Jul 13 11:22:58 2003
From: vincent_delft at yahoo.com (vincent delft)
Date: 13 Jul 2003 08:22:58 -0700
Subject: CGIHTTPserver looze PYTHONPATH
Message-ID: <5c184570.0307130722.2c74879c@posting.google.com>

I'm using Python 2.2.2
the standard cgihttpserver (example given in the python doc).
All HTML and CGI work.

BUT

by writing a simple python-cgi script like this : 
"
#!/usr/bin/env python
import os
print "<html>%s</html>" % os.environ
"
I've discover that the environement variable are lost.
For example PYTHONPATH is no more present.

Can you explain me why ?
Does this is a bug ?
How can I keep my PYTHONPATH variable across my python-cgi ?
(I don't want to add os.putenv on top of each python-cgi script)

Thanks



From sschwarzer at sschwarzer.net  Sat Jul 26 15:46:47 2003
From: sschwarzer at sschwarzer.net (Stefan Schwarzer)
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 21:46:47 +0200
Subject: Standard behaviour of a getSomething method
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1059084757.18138.python-list@python.org>
References: <A128D751272CD411BC9200508BC2194D03382C3A@escpl.tcp.com.ar> <mailman.1059084757.18138.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bfulr8$5mi$1@online.de>

Mike Rovner wrote:
> Batista, Facundo wrote:
> 
>> When I want to know about a attribute (e.g.: myAttrib) of an object, I
>> should use the specific method (e.g.: getMyAttrib).
> 
> Python don't enforce nor encourage attribute hiding,
> so don't do it unless you have a good reason.
> Plain access to attributes is simple:
>     myObject.myAttribute

I think, you should hide an attribute if it doesn't refer to the
object's abstract interface but instead merely depends on the
implementation. In that case, you shouldn't provide any means to
access the attribute directly, be it via direct attribute access or
accessor methods.

Somewhat, I dislike the sometimes recommended __getattr__/__setattr__
approach. I wouldn't like to have something like

def __getattr__(self, name):
     if name == '...':
         ...
     elif name == '...':
         ...
     ...
     else:
         raise AttributeError("%s has no attribute %s" % (self.__class__, name))

but prefer modifying only the corresponding get/set method(s).

But, if I had lots of get/set methods, I would surely use the
__getattr__/__setattr__ approach or generate the get/set methods
"automatically", with a function like

make_accessors.make_accessors(cls, "foo bar baz spam eggs")

which would generate

def foo(self):
     return self._foo

def set_foo(self, new_foo):
     self._foo = new_foo

and the other accessor methods, if they are not yet defined otherwise.
This can be done easily with Python.

In one project, we use a similar method to generate accessor methods
for persistent objects to be stored in a database. Here, the accessors
(which correspond to the "public" database columns in a table row) are
a bit more complicated.

>> Considering that this attribute is always another object (everything
>> is an object in Python), what should getMyAttrib do?
>>
>> 1) Return the object
>> 2) Return a copy of the object

Because returning a copy is seldom needed, I prefer returning the
object itself. If it's an immutable object, the difference doesn't
matter, anyway. If it's a mutable object, you should note the access
semantics in the docstring, as someone else pointed out.

Stefan




From tomas at fancy.org  Mon Jul 14 20:48:31 2003
From: tomas at fancy.org (Tom Plunket)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 17:48:31 -0700
Subject: anything like C++ references?
References: <mailman.1058225603.22981.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m3j6hvgk73bgkn9vhuqj2rnuj9lvhu0tda@4ax.com>

sismex01 wrote:

> > What I specifically want is a way to have a "second-level
> > binding", e.g. a reference to a reference (assuming that the
> > terminology is correct by saying that all Python variables are
> > references).
> 
> What for?  What would be the practical use for such a thing?

"Why would you want a bike when you have a car?"

I would say that I wanted it because I thought it would be the
most straight-forward solution to the problem, so I thought I'd
ask.

I saw the weakref docs, but it didn't seem to do what I expected
it to do, so I asked the question.  ;)  At this point, I'm not
entirely sure what use weakref has, since it seems to only
provide the same mechanism that exists already through
assignment.

> To rebind a name remotely?  It's not very consistent with the
> rest of the language.

hmm.

def fn(b): b.val = 4

class MyClass: pass

a = MyClass()
a.val = 3
fn(a)
print a.val

This name was rebound remotely.  I'm not trying to be difficult,
but this does seem like much the same thing if not a bit more
heavy-weight than what I'm asking about.

> To have functions which rebind a name in a hidden way seems
> to me like a veritable fountain of possible bugs.  Explicit
> is better than implicit and all that.

and OO will never take hold, either.  ;)  Just look at all of the
behind-the-scenes that's going on!

> Those operations might have sense in a language where a variable
> name is directly related to a storage location, a memory address;
> but Python is not like that, and trying to program in that style
> in Python is quite painful.

That's why I'm not trying to program in that style, but in a new
style that seems to me to be in the Python way, if not (yet? <g>)
supported by the language.

> I find Python to be quite clear and powerful, and never have needed
> such functionality in all the different type of projects I've done,
> small-to-medium, but varied: SQL parsers, XML parsers, email
> messaging systems, GUI frontends, RPC servers and clients,
> text-formatting utilities, etc...  I've never found a single
> instance where I would have needed such that.

I've never needed the subtraction operator, myself.  Every time I
used it, I could have used a negate and an add, but I used the
subtraction operator instead.

Just because functionality isn't strictly needed doesn't mean
it's not useful.


-tom!



From Marco.LaRosa at csiro.au  Mon Jul 28 21:49:28 2003
From: Marco.LaRosa at csiro.au (Marco.LaRosa at csiro.au)
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 11:49:28 +1000
Subject: 2 questions: py2exe with chaco AND dendrograms
Message-ID: <D081F0014410CC4D9CF273E809D48228011A949A@clex1.vic.CSIRO.AU>


Hi all,

1st question:
Has anyone used py2exe on an app which chaco - if yes, were there any
problems?

2nd question:
Does anyone know of a python routine/package for calculating/displaying
dendrograms


Cheers, Marco


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From jjl at pobox.com  Sat Jul 26 20:47:58 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 27 Jul 2003 01:47:58 +0100
Subject: emacs python-mode questions: C-c C-c and broken docstring fill
Message-ID: <87ptjwre0x.fsf@pobox.com>

1. Why do I get this in my minibuffer when I do C-c C-c in a
python-mode buffer containing the following valid Python code?

Wrong type argument: sequencep, cpython

----START
#!/usr/bin/env python

print "hello, world"
----END


2. A while ago I 'upgraded' to a version of python-mode (from
somewhere on sourceforge, I think -- perhaps Python CVS, don't
remember) which somebody here claimed was able to fill comments
without needing blank lines before and after the comment.  It does do
that, but the new version also breaks filling text in docstrings
(under particular circumstances which I haven't figured out, but which
occurs very frequently).  I get something like: "The parameter start
is not the beginning of a python string".  Where does the latest
python-mode live, and is this fill bug with docstrings fixed?


John



From fredrik at pythonware.com  Wed Jul 16 05:00:44 2003
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 11:00:44 +0200
Subject: hex check
References: <3F150135.8030708@is.lg.ua>
Message-ID: <bf346i$8gh$2@main.gmane.org>

Ruslan Spivak wrote:

> Does anybody have a hint how to check if input hex number
> is in correct hex format?

not unless you define what a "correct hex format" is, of
course.  but one of these might work:

    import re
    if not re.match("[0-9a-fA-F]+$", number):
        print "oops"

    import re
    if not re.match("0x[0-9a-fA-F]+$", number):
        print "oops"

    try:
        int(number, 16)
    except ValueError:
        print "oops"

(etc)

</F>







From fabsk+news at free.fr  Wed Jul 30 05:11:14 2003
From: fabsk+news at free.fr (Fabien SK)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 11:11:14 +0200
Subject: Embeding Python, COM crash
Message-ID: <3f278bf0$0$24554$626a54ce@news.free.fr>

Hi,

I wrote a plugin for Visual C++ 6 that uses Python 2.2 (it worked 
perfectly for months). I just installed Python 2.3, and recompiled my 
plugin, and now it crashes. My plugin do the following things:

Py_Initialize();
LoadLibrary("pythoncom23.dll");

typedef PyObject* (*CONVERT_PROC)(IUnknown *punk, REFIID riid, BOOL 
bAddRef);
CONVERT_PROC proc = 0;
proc = (CONVERT_PROC)::GetProcAddress(m_hDll, "PyCom_PyObjectFromIUnknown");

PyObject *pvc = proc(punk, __uuidof(IUnknown), FALSE); // boom

and I have a "null pointer" crash with python 2.3. I remove the 
installation of 2.2, so there are no old header or library. I am using 
Visual C++ 6.
Am I doing something wrong, or did something change with Python 2.3 ?
Note: I am using the lastest python installer and win32all-155.exe.

Thank you for your attention

Fabien




From bgailer at alum.rpi.edu  Tue Jul  1 15:22:17 2003
From: bgailer at alum.rpi.edu (Bob Gailer)
Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 13:22:17 -0600
Subject: remove special characters from line
In-Reply-To: <3f01a27d$0$43847$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net>
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20030701131355.01a490e0@66.28.54.253>

At 10:03 AM 7/1/2003 -0500, Chris Rennert wrote:
>If I have a line like this
>
>?blah blah blah blah blah
>
>I know I could do a slice like this [1:] to pull everything but the special
>character, but what if I have several lines in a file.
>I am not sure how I would detect a special character like that.  I would
>just like to pull everything from those lines (and the special character
>always appears as the first character, but not on every line) except for the
>special characters.
>I hope I have enough detail for someone to help me.

Please define "special character". You have given us one example, but 
that's not sufficient to guess your meaning.

One way to do this is to create a string with all acceptable characters, 
then see if the first character of each line is in that string.

Consider string.printable:
 >>> import string
 >>> string.printable
'0123456789abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyzABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ!"#$%&\'()*+,-./:;<=>?@[\\]^_`{|}~ 
\t\n\r\x0b\x0c'
If you don't want the control characters at the end, use string.printable[:95]

for line in file(filename).readlines():
   if line[0] not in string.printable:
     del line[0]
     ... process line

Bob Gailer
bgailer at alum.rpi.edu
303 442 2625
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From oren-py-l at hishome.net  Tue Jul  8 03:51:10 2003
From: oren-py-l at hishome.net (Oren Tirosh)
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 03:51:10 -0400
Subject: Merlin, a fun little program
In-Reply-To: <a5415304.0307071305.322f542@posting.google.com>
References: <3F08CFDF.6050603@earthlink.net> <mailman.1057557371.12852.python-list@python.org> <a5415304.0307071305.322f542@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20030708075110.GA14337@hishome.net>

On Mon, Jul 07, 2003 at 02:05:28PM -0700, Ron Stephens wrote:
> I guess the bigger question is; is there anything wrong with web
> scraping? I surely never meant any harm in it, and certainly no money
> is involved. But maybe I should give it up and do other things?

I don't think there's anything fundamentally wrong with web scraping but
you have to consider the fact that a single script can easily consume 
resources that cost real money and would otherwise serve thousands of 
human users. If a provider installs mechanisms to detect scripts and block 
them this can quickly become a cat-and-mouse game where the scrapers try 
to fool these mechanisms, it starts to get ugly and everybody suffers.

I think Google handled this very well - defusing most of the problem by
letting people have what they want while keeping things under control. 
I generally find the way Google handles the issues that come with their 
dominant market position quite "Pythonic". 

    Oren




From cpl.19.ghum at spamgourmet.com  Sun Jul  6 17:39:50 2003
From: cpl.19.ghum at spamgourmet.com (Harald Massa)
Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2003 23:39:50 +0200
Subject: python blogging software
Message-ID: <Xns93B0F0F1A58A2cpl19ghumspamgourmet@62.153.159.134>

which one should I use? Recommendations?

Harald



From ark at acm.org  Tue Jul 15 08:47:14 2003
From: ark at acm.org (Andrew Koenig)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 12:47:14 GMT
Subject: Securing the Pyton Interpreter?
References: <slrnbh7q3f.kiv.usenet@norge.freeshell.org>
Message-ID: <yu99he5ogdnx.fsf@tinker.research.att.com>

Stephen> I'm looking for a way to install Python on a UNIX machine in
Stephen> a way such that any user on the system can use it, but only
Stephen> to execute scripts that are located in a certain directory.

Why?  If I were a user on that machine and wanted to execute Python
scripts in a different directory, how would you stop me from installing
Python on my own and using it for those scripts?

-- 
Andrew Koenig, ark at acm.org



From doug.hendricks at tnzi.com  Thu Jul 17 01:29:58 2003
From: doug.hendricks at tnzi.com (the_rev_dharma_roadkill)
Date: 16 Jul 2003 22:29:58 -0700
Subject: Connecting Oracle8i to Python
References: <fb91dbec.0307161754.8a21bd0@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <fb91dbec.0307162129.9a32067@posting.google.com>

doug.hendricks at tnzi.com (the_rev_dharma_roadkill) wrote in message news:<fb91dbec.0307161754.8a21bd0 at posting.google.com>...
> Hello,
> I'm a newbie to Python.  In order to get much use out of it at my
> site, I must be able to connect it to Oracle8i databases.  I'm running
> Python 2.2.2 on Tru64 (osf1 V5.1a).
> 
> First question:
> What do you recommend?
> DCOracle2?  Note that I am not running Zope or any other web software.
> cx_Oracle?
> Other?
> 
> Second question (important only if you recommend DCOracle2)
> I can "make" DCOracle2, but I don't see any hints anywhere on how to
> install it on a non-zope system.  If I try any obvious thing, like cp
> -r to lib/python2.2/site-packages, at BEST I get:
> 
> > python
> Python 2.2.2 (#1, May  9 2003, 14:15:51) [C] on osf1V5
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> >>> import DCOracle2
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
>   File "DCOracle2/__init__.py", line 37, in ?
>     from DCOracle2 import   *
>   File "DCOracle2/DCOracle2.py", line 104, in ?
>     import dco2
> ImportError: dlopen: DCOracle2/dco2.so: symbol "OCILobIsTemporary"
> unresolved
> 

I actually can get past this now using libocijdbc8 but now I get:
>>> import DCOracle2
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
  File "DCOracle2/__init__.py", line 91, in ?
    import DA
  File "DCOracle2/DA.py", line 90, in ?
    from db import DB
  File "DCOracle2/db.py", line 89, in ?
    import DCOracle2, DateTime
ImportError: No module named DateTime


How many other non-standard modules do I need to install to get
DCOracle2 working in a non-zope vanilla environment?



From not.valid at address.org  Thu Jul 17 21:40:07 2003
From: not.valid at address.org (YoTuco)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 01:40:07 GMT
Subject: Looking For A Wildcard File Name Parser
Message-ID: <XdIRa.16609$EZ2.6255@nwrddc01.gnilink.net>

I've been looking for a good wildcard file name parser. That is, some module
in Python or something someone has made that can take a file name with the
'*' or '?' wildcards in it, parse a list[] and give back the matches.  It
seems like a common enough task that one would be around?  Or do I just
have to roll up my sleeves, dig-in and learn RE?
 
Thanx in advance for your input.

--YoTuco



From alf at fayauffre.org  Fri Jul 25 08:04:04 2003
From: alf at fayauffre.org (Alexandre Fayolle)
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 12:04:04 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: LGPL and Java, and Python?
Message-ID: <slrnbi275k.2ce.alf@largo.fayauffre.org>

Hello,

Reading Debian Weekly News, I learnt that there seem to be a problem
when importing an LGPL'd java library (this forces the importer to be
LGPL'd too), making the LGPL license equivalent to the GPL for Java
programs. 

Here are a few references taken from DWN:

http://slashdot.org/developers/03/07/17/2257224.shtml
http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.jakarta.poi.devel/5900   
http://linuxintegrators.com/hl30/blog/general/?permalink=LGPL+clarification.html
http://www.rollerweblogger.org/page/roller/20030716#for_java_lgpl_is_viral
http://www.intertwingly.net/blog/1519.html
http://radio.weblogs.com/0122027/2003/07/16.html#a56
      

I'm by no way a license expert, but it seems to me that the import
mechanism in python is closer to Java's than what is allowed to use a
python LGPL'd library in a non GPL/LGPL program. 

Could anyone confirm or infirm this impression?

-- 
Alexandre Fayolle
LOGILAB, Paris (France).
http://www.logilab.com   http://www.logilab.fr  http://www.logilab.org
D?veloppement logiciel avanc? - Intelligence Artificielle - Formations



From theller at python.net  Wed Jul 23 02:44:54 2003
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 08:44:54 +0200
Subject: py2exe command line window problem
References: <1ee79758.0307220827.78f8571@posting.google.com> <5a4226f0.0307221641.49c96703@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <smoxn3mh.fsf@python.net>

kevin at cazabon.com (Kevin Cazabon) writes:

> instead of using "python setup.py py2exe" try "pythonw setup.py
> py2exe" from your application.

No, it should not matter how the build process itself is run.

> prashsingh at yahoo.com (Prashant Singh) wrote in message news:<1ee79758.0307220827.78f8571 at posting.google.com>...
>> I'm using py2exe to create a standalone executable from a Python
>> script, and I would like the script to run invisibly, i.e. without a
>> console window and without any interactive GUI. The script is a helper
>> app, which simply downloads and runs some other program.
>> 
>> I've tried passing the -w flag to the script, and I've also tried
>> renaming it with a .pyw extension, but when the executable is run an
>> empty console window opens with the title "C:\WINNT\system32\cmd.exe".
>> I've checked, and there are no print statements, which might cause
>> py2exe to assume it's still a console app.

Could it be that the DOS-box is not opened from the standalone
executable, but from the programs Prashant starts from it?

Thomas



From bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au  Sat Jul 19 14:10:05 2003
From: bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au (Ben Finney)
Date: 20 Jul 2003 04:00:05 +0950
Subject: __getitem__ and arguments
References: <10eb079f.0307190110.30deb5b9@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <slrnbhii0k.re7.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>

On 19 Jul 2003 02:10:25 -0700, KanZen wrote:
> I'm trying to understand the difference between __setitem__ and an
> ordinary method. For example:

(presuming you mean __getitem__)

>>>> class A(object):
>       def __getitem__(self, *args):
>         print len(args)
>       def normalMethod(self, *args):
>         print len(args)
> 
>>>> a=A()
>>>> a.normalMethod(1, 2, 3)
> 3
>>>> a[1, 2, 3]
> 1

The dictionary access syntax you used specifies a key, which forces
everything between [] to become a single argument.  In this case, it's a
tuple, (1, 2, 3).

Thus, the args for A.__getitem__() is a tuple of length one, containing
the specified key: the tuple (1, 2, 3).  That is, args is a tuple
containing a tuple.

No such coercion occurs for function syntax; the difference is that you
didn't invoke __getitem__ with function syntax.

>>> class A:
...     def normal_method( self, *args ):
...             print len( args )
...             print type( args )
...             print args
...     def __getitem__( self, *args ):
...             print len( args )
...             print type( args )
...             print args
...
>>> a = A()
>>> a.normal_method( 1, 2, 3 )
3
<type 'tuple'>
(1, 2, 3)
>>> a[ 1, 2, 3 ]
1
<type 'tuple'>
((1, 2, 3),)
>>>

> For __getitem__() the arguments become a tuple.

Yes, because you've specified a key, which by definition is a single
argument.

-- 
 \     "He may look like an idiot and talk like an idiot but don't let |
  `\           that fool you. He really is an idiot."  -- Groucho Marx |
_o__)                                                                  |
http://bignose.squidly.org/ 9CFE12B0 791A4267 887F520C B7AC2E51 BD41714B



From jennyw at dangerousideas.com  Fri Jul 11 12:57:26 2003
From: jennyw at dangerousideas.com (jennyw)
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 09:57:26 -0700
Subject: Reading a DOS text file and writing out Mac
Message-ID: <20030711165726.GA29760@dangerousideas.com>

Is there a way to set the EOL character that Python recognizes? For 
example, I'd like to set it to cr/lf (okay, that's eol characters) when 
reading a file (DOS text) and set it to just cr when writing out (Mac). 
Is there a way to do this?

Thanks!

Jen




From pablo at bogus.domain.org  Sun Jul 20 17:29:12 2003
From: pablo at bogus.domain.org (Pablo)
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 23:29:12 +0200
Subject: classes
References: <pan.2003.07.19.20.46.33.864915@bogus.domain.org> <ad052e5c.0307191826.144ad2a5@posting.google.com> <pan.2003.07.20.12.30.11.157694@bogus.domain.org> <mailman.1058723911.12956.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2003.07.20.21.29.07.366132@bogus.domain.org>

> Sure it does.  Allowing that is the purpose of the "staticmethod"
> call in Dan's example.

Yes You're right and Dan as well.
I just didn't know that that 'staticmethod' existed and tried to do "Java
style" static method which obviously didn't work

The trick with __new__ is usefull. I must read some more about classes in
Python. Thanks to Pedro for a link.

Cheers
Pablo



From gh at ghaering.de  Wed Jul  2 08:06:34 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 14:06:34 +0200
Subject: splitting a string into 2 new strings
In-Reply-To: <bdue2n$m07$1@aspen.sucs.soton.ac.uk>
References: <bdue2n$m07$1@aspen.sucs.soton.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <bduhrl$10ga3j$1@ID-124666.news.dfncis.de>

Mark Light wrote:
> Hi,
>       I have a string e.g. 'C6 H12 O6' that I wish to split up to give 2
> strings
> 'C H O' and '6 12 6'.  I have played with string.split() and the re module -
> but can't quite get there.

So what's the rule for splitting? Always split on position 4? That'd be 
too easy, I suppose:

 >>> s = "C6 H12 O
 >>> s[:4], s[4:]
('C6 H', '12 O6')

-- Gerhard




From ben-public-nospam at decadentplace.org.uk  Sun Jul  6 10:24:43 2003
From: ben-public-nospam at decadentplace.org.uk (Ben Hutchings)
Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2003 15:24:43 +0100
Subject: Collective memory
References: <mailman.1057083728.8224.python-list@python.org> <vg88va53uha8e@corp.supernews.com> <hff5eb.e9h.ln@escape.shannon.net> <3f06af11$0$49113$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl> <3f071e0c.4620472@news.ocis.net>
Message-ID: <slrnbggc9a.8s2.ben-public-nospam@bunthorne.i.decadentplace.org.uk>

In article <3f071e0c.4620472 at news.ocis.net>, Gene Wirchenko wrote:
> Irmen de Jong <irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl> wrote:
> 
>>Charles Shannon Hendrix wrote:
<snip> 
>> >     if <something>
>> >         <work>
>> >         <more work>
>> >         <add numbers>
>> >
>> > Is <add numbers> part of the if statement, or did someone with different
>> > tab settings from the author make a mistake and align it accidentally?
>>
>>To catch such mistakes, Python has the -tt command line option:
>>-t     : issue warnings about inconsistent tab usage (-tt: issue errors)
> 
>      What is inconsistent about the tab usage above?  That is, why
> would it be flagged?
<snip>

If the above used only tabs for indentation, there could be no
question about how the statements were meant to be grouped.
Similarly, if it used only spaces for indentation, there could be no
question.  The problematic case that CSH is worried about is where the
code uses a mixture of spaces and tabs (this is what is meant by
"inconsistent"), e.g.:

<SP><SP><SP><SP>if <something>:
<SP><SP><SP><SP><SP><SP><SP><SP><work>
<SP><SP><SP><SP><SP><SP><SP><SP><more work>
<HT><add numbers>

In a text editor misconfigured to use 4-space tabs this appears as:

    if <something>:
        <work>
        <more work>
    <add numbers>

but since Python uses 8-space tabs it really means:

    if <something>:
        <work>
        <more work>
        <add numbers>

So there is a risk here, and it's probably worth adopting a rule of
not using tabs in Python code.  If you think a colleague broke the
rule, the -t flag will alert you to any potential problems.

-- 
Ben Hutchings  |  personal web site: http://womble.decadentplace.org.uk/
Man invented language to satisfy his deep need to complain. - Lily Tomlin



From m at moshez.org  Wed Jul 16 08:25:53 2003
From: m at moshez.org (Moshe Zadka)
Date: 16 Jul 2003 12:25:53 -0000
Subject: XML <=> database
In-Reply-To: <20030716171311.A3783@cs.unipune.ernet.in>
References: <20030716171311.A3783@cs.unipune.ernet.in>, <20030716170049.A3736@cs.unipune.ernet.in>
Message-ID: <20030716122553.6759.qmail@green.zadka.com>

On Wed, 16 Jul 2003, vivek at cs.unipune.ernet.in wrote:

> Can someone please post a sample code for doing this..

Depends on the mocl-SQL XMLish language...and I, for one, am not going
to try and find "XML Integrator"'s DTD.

> Actually we trying to show the students how to use XML+Web+Database as it is 
> one of the hottest technology in the market :-)

Then you're better off with Java. Java is much better at being a hot
technology, and if this is the motivation, then it's better the students
will not know how to program in Java than for them to not know how to
program in Python.
[My immediate take on XML+Web+Database is to use the database to
store a counter, to use the xml for <counter value="5"/> stringification
and destringification and then to show that counter. Or maybe I should
not say that, because someone might implement it...]
-- 
Moshe Zadka -- http://moshez.org/
Buffy: I don't like you hanging out with someone that... short.
Riley: Yeah, a lot of young people nowadays are experimenting with shortness.
Agile Programming Language -- http://www.python.org/




From BPettersen at NAREX.com  Tue Jul 22 21:14:09 2003
From: BPettersen at NAREX.com (Bjorn Pettersen)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 19:14:09 -0600
Subject: 'int' object is not callable
Message-ID: <60FB8BB7F0EFC7409B75EEEC13E2019202CE46E4@admin56.narex.com>

> From: JW [mailto:jkpangtang at yahoo.com] 
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Suppose I have the following python method:
> 
> def foo(aTuple):
> 	print len(aTuple)  #line 1
[...]
> 
> I get the following error at line 1:
> 	'int' object is not callable
> 
> If i remove line 1, then my foo() method does print out 
> correct value for aTuple[0].
[...]

Did you assign an int to the variable "len" somewhere?

-- bjorn




From afriere at yahoo.co.uk  Thu Jul 10 01:51:50 2003
From: afriere at yahoo.co.uk (Asun Friere)
Date: 9 Jul 2003 22:51:50 -0700
Subject: Deleting specific characters from a string
References: <begfb3$7j6$1@online.de> <3F0C851C.4000500@livinglogic.de> <3F0C8AC3.5010304@dadsetan.com>
Message-ID: <38ec68a6.0307092151.21ba077a@posting.google.com>

Behrang Dadsetan <ben at dadsetan.com> wrote in message news:<3F0C8AC3.5010304 at dadsetan.com>...

> 
> def isAcceptableChar(character):
>     return charachter in "@&"
> 
> str = filter(isAcceptableChar, str)
> 
> is going to finally be what I am going to use.

Might 'return character not in "@&"' work better?



From abelikov72 at hotmail.com  Fri Jul 11 14:08:57 2003
From: abelikov72 at hotmail.com (Afanasiy)
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 18:08:57 GMT
Subject: Python in Excel
References: <mailman.1057271286.23358.python-list@python.org> <1u3Na.12730$U23.8210@nwrdny01.gnilink.net> <873chm9w7o.fsf@pobox.com> <be5amo$2phm$1@adenine.netfront.net> <37ee60c8.0307110716.74f7c4c9@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <psutgvkfovita7oricpfo0r6452fqi5llp@4ax.com>

On 11 Jul 2003 08:16:33 -0700, ofnap at nus.edu.sg (Ajith Prasad) wrote:

>This looks very useful to Excel users who would like to tap the power
>of Python. However, not knowing enough about VBA syntax it was not
>possible to  proceed beyond step(a). Is it possible to provide an
>Idiot's guide to steps (b), (c),(d) and (e)? In other words, what is
>the explicit VBA code/steps need to do (b) and (c) and could simple
>(even trivial) examples be given of steps (d) and (e). Thanks in
>advance.

Global sc As New MSScriptControl.ScriptControl

Public Function os_getcwd()
    sc.Language = "python"
    sc.ExecuteStatement ("import os")
    os_getcwd = sc.Eval("os.getcwd()")
End Function

With this you can set your Excel formula to =os_getcwd()

For me it returns "C:\Documents and Settings\Administrator\My Documents",
which I needed to know at the time so I didn't have to screw around with
the ever annoying pythonpath.

You can put the first two lines of the function in the Workbook_Open hook,
but I don't know where that is. I hope to use more Python in Excel soon.
Hmm, actually, I suppose you can put those first two lines of the function
after the Global declaration as well. I know just about zero VBScript and
didn't get a chance to do anything else beyond proof of concept yet.

I figured I would write something dynamic which allowed more transparent
access to Python, maybe allowing formula like =py("os.getcwd()"), etc.

-AB



From domma at procoders.net  Fri Jul  4 11:50:48 2003
From: domma at procoders.net (Achim Domma)
Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 17:50:48 +0200
Subject: loading objects from ZODB
Message-ID: <be47oo$621$05$1@news.t-online.com>

Hi,

I'm playing around with ZODB but I don't understand when objects are loaded
from the DB. Assume I have an object containing a list of other objects. If
this object is loaded from ZODB, when is the list filled? Only on demand? I
think yes, because otherwise reading the top node would result in loading
the whole database. But I wanted to be sure!

regards,
Achim





From achrist at easystreet.com  Mon Jul 28 16:34:09 2003
From: achrist at easystreet.com (achrist at easystreet.com)
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 13:34:09 -0700
Subject: Any Software can Python <-> Delphi ?
References: <bg2ul3$jvg6p$1@ID-142885.news.uni-berlin.de> <_icVa.1123902$ZC.164425@news.easynews.com>
Message-ID: <3F2588C1.8FE0C79B@easystreet.com>

Joe Francia wrote:
> 
> PythonMan wrote:
> > Any Software can change Python source code to Delphi ?
> > thx
> >
> 
> You might find an easier time of it to embed your Python in Delphi, or,
> even better, write a Python extension with Delphi:
> 
> http://www.atug.com/andypatterns/pythonDelphiTalk.htm
> http://membres.lycos.fr/marat/delphi/python.htm
> 

Anyone have any ideas about how to package one of these pythondelphi
apps to be easy to deploy and be convenient to the end user?  I'm
guessing that since python isn't on top, McMillan's installer and
py2exe won't handle it.

TIA


Al



From nobody at nowhere.com  Sat Jul 26 21:09:54 2003
From: nobody at nowhere.com (Grumfish)
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 01:09:54 GMT
Subject: Seeing next character in an file
Message-ID: <CDFUa.42241$wk4.27296@twister.nyroc.rr.com>

Is there a way to see the next character of an input file object without 
advancing the position in the file?




From gradha at titanium.sabren.com  Sat Jul 12 07:08:01 2003
From: gradha at titanium.sabren.com (Grzegorz Adam Hankiewicz)
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 13:08:01 +0200
Subject: ANN: mailbox_reader 1.0.2 -- Python module to read UNIX mailboxes sequentially.
Message-ID: <20030712110801.GA12963@pedos.es>

DESCRIPTION

    The module provides two classes: Mailbox, a file-like object
    which allows you to iterate through the contents of a mailbox,
    and Email, an object which holds the individual emails returned by
    Mailbox. Mailbox inherits from Mailbox_base, but usually you don't
    need to even know about this class. Mailbox_base implements the
    file like mailbox reading part of the class, and the Email object
    creation. Use the Mailbox class in your code, which will always
    maintain the same API for backwards compatibility.
    
    This module has been written with simplicity in mind, and low memory
    consumption. Unless you do something bad, I estimate maximum memory
    consumption as twice the memory required by the largest email of
    the opened mailbox. But I'm guessing, maybe it is lower, like one
    time your biggest email.

DOWNLOAD

    http://gradha.sdf-eu.org/program/mailbox_reader.en.html
    http://www.vex.net/parnassus/
    http://freshmeat.net/
    
LICENSE

    GPL
    
-- 
 Please don't send me private copies of your public answers. Thanks.




From intentionally at blank.co.uk  Tue Jul 15 18:21:33 2003
From: intentionally at blank.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 23:21:33 +0100
Subject: anything like C++ references?
References: <b8c3hvsesjoumiboobml3nsnajtha99mp1@4ax.com> <mailman.1058129901.28248.python-list@python.org> <plk3hv0s1m2egf4s34jo6vjedk0q8r2mu9@4ax.com> <hflQa.48826$wk6.12216@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net> <rp94hvc8fg6h91oe7ctqq9jn9ku3nlud1k@4ax.com> <slrnbh6fbc.72v.kamikaze@kuoi.asui.uidaho.edu> <tdo6hvo40qaga46ekamfe65opn2aaa9b41@4ax.com> <slrnbh7l94.mti.kamikaze@kuoi.asui.uidaho.edu> <frn8hvggtom4vqen1s0ktr1hijfm9cvfe7@4ax.com> <i8v8hvk49lpessg82hgg8jreafp8em8sbk@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <ggv8hvk85lmn9tgk0t6c80vuv0ns2p2idk@4ax.com>

On Tue, 15 Jul 2003 15:16:40 -0700, Tom Plunket <tomas at fancy.org>
wrote:

>Stephen Horne wrote:
>
>>   std::string x = "123";
>>   std::string y = x;
>> 
>>   //  At this point, in most implementations, x and y are bound to the
>>   //  same object due to a lazy copy optimisation.
>
>Actually, that isn't the case these days.  I'm sure there are
>some who do this optimization still, but it is incredibly hard to
>do so in a thread-safe manner so all of the heavies as far as I
>know don't do it anymore.

Ah - makes sense. Bugger. There goes my nice neat 'but they can do it'
argument :-(




From schuffenhauer at iwq.de  Tue Jul  1 03:18:01 2003
From: schuffenhauer at iwq.de (Gina Schuffenhauer)
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 09:18:01 +0200
Subject: Python 2.0 / Python 2.2
Message-ID: <bdrcia$83n$00$1@news.t-online.com>

Hallo newsgroup,

I have some questions concerning Python 2.2.

First question:
I try to port source code from Python 2.0 to Python 2.2.The following source
code works with Python 2.0. If I compile it with Python 2.2, the modul "tci"
is not imported. "tci" is a python module written by us. How can I change
the source code to get it working with Python 2.2.?

Py_Initialize();

PyStr = Py_BuildValue("s", TCIHome);

PyModule = PyImport_ImportModule("sys");
PyList = PyObject_GetAttrString(PyModule, "path");
PyList_Insert(PyList, 0, PyStr);
if (PyErr_Occurred())
 return 0;

TCIModule = PyImport_ImportModule("tci");

Second question:

I want to embed Pythonwin in a C++-Application. Where can I find a
win32uiHostGlue.h to access win32ui.pyd  version 2.1.0.152?


--
Mit freundlichen Gr??en / best regards
Gina Schuffenhauer

schuffenhauer at IWQ.de








From Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org  Sat Jul 19 22:15:20 2003
From: Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org (Scott David Daniels)
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 19:15:20 -0700
Subject: Strange(?) list comprehension behavior
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1058652870.26728.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1058652870.26728.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3f19e98d$1@nntp0.pdx.net>

George Henry wrote:
> Never mind, my result was due to a typo. Have you ever typed "<" rather 
> than "," ... and structured your code in such a way that the error 
> escpaed your notice on casual perusal? So ... [ "s1", ... "sj"< "sk", 
> ... "sn"] does indeed produce an int.

One way that I reduce these problems is defining longer lists
like this:
     ops = '~ ! @ + - | || < << > >> ...'.split()

-Scott David Daniels
Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org




From klappnase at freenet.de  Sat Jul 19 19:16:14 2003
From: klappnase at freenet.de (klappnase)
Date: 19 Jul 2003 16:16:14 -0700
Subject: Executing a program
References: <FTeSa.7289$os2.110498@news2.e.nsc.no>
Message-ID: <9a410299.0307191516.3a4481e6@posting.google.com>

Eirik <hannibalkannibal at yahoo.no> wrote in message news:<FTeSa.7289$os2.110498 at news2.e.nsc.no>...
> Greetings!
> 
> How can I run a program from within Python?
> 
> I have tried the exec* family of functions, but I get these strange 
> errors, like this:
> 
>   Exception in Tkinter callback
>   Traceback (most recent call last):
>     File "/usr/lib/python2.2/lib-tk/Tkinter.py", line 1300, in __call__
>       return apply(self.func, args)
>     File "./PPP", line 9, in run_app
>       os.execvp("home/eirik/ppp-skript", argument)
>     File "/usr/lib/python2.2/os.py", line 298, in execvp
>       _execvpe(file, args)
>     File "/usr/lib/python2.2/os.py", line 324, in _execvpe
>       apply(func, (file,) + argrest)
>   OSError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory


Hi,
if you want to run an external program with a bash command (seems like
that's what you're trying to do) exec is not the right function for
you; with exec you can run python modules.
Try something like:

os.system("home/eirik/ppp-skript --argument")

instead or if you want to get the output of your program try

xyz = commands.getoutput("home/eirik/ppp-skript --argument")

Did that help (maybe I have not really understood your problem)?

Cheers
Michael



From fredrik at pythonware.com  Mon Jul 14 16:33:01 2003
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 22:33:01 +0200
Subject: some questions
References: <3f12f613$0$8731$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de> <3f130110$0$31819$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
Message-ID: <bev40d$608$1@main.gmane.org>

Andreas Bauer wrote:

> Could anybody tell me how to hide a varibale e.g. in a url
> Example
>
> for i in (0,5):
>         u = urllib.urlopen("http://www.versionxzy.com/page
>         - here the variable e.g page1,page2,page3.html

here's one way to do it:

for i in range(1, 5):
    u = urllib.urlopen("http://www.versionxzy.com/page%d.html" % i)

more here:

http://www.python.org/doc/current/tut/node9.html
http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/typesseq-strings.html

(reading the entire tutorial won't hurt, of course)

</F>

<!-- (the eff-bot guide to) the python standard library (redux):
http://effbot.org/zone/librarybook-index.htm
-->







From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Jul 10 12:31:06 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 12:31:06 -0400
Subject: Executing scripts
References: <jHfPa.21$ww6.48420@news.uswest.net>
Message-ID: <3F0D94CA.38C71FFC@engcorp.com>

Ken Fettig wrote:
> 
> I am having a problem executing scripts from python. The script is located
> at C:\Python22\learn and is named more.py. This is an example from the
> Programming Python book by Mark Lutz published by O'Reilly. I have tried how
> the author outlines to execute the script but it doesn't work. I am on a
> Windows 2000 machine.
> The example shows to, at the command line, enter C:\Python22\learn>python
> more.py more.py. I get the following output:
> >>> C:\Python22\learn>python more.py more.py
>   File "<stdin>", line 1
>     C:\Python22\learn>python more.py more.py
>      ^
> I have tried many combinations all unsuccessfully.  Can someone please help
> me????

You are not at the right command line.  The >>> indicates you have already
run Python, but are trying to execute a DOS command line at the *Python*
prompt.

See  http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw.py?req=show&file=faq08.018.htp

-Peter



From rnd at onego.ru  Tue Jul  8 00:39:38 2003
From: rnd at onego.ru (Roman Suzi)
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 08:39:38 +0400 (MSD)
Subject: getting a submatrix of all true
In-Reply-To: <m2u1a4d9hy.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0307080823190.12215-100000@rnd.onego.ru>

On Wed, 2 Jul 2003, John Hunter wrote:

>1 0 0 0 1
>0 0 0 0 0    0 0 0 0 0    
>0 0 0 0 0    0 0 0 0 0  candidate submatrix has 15 elements
>0 0 0 0 0    0 0 0 0 0 
>0 0 1 0 0   


I think you can explore two ways to solve your problem. I have not
read all the replies in this thread, but these two ways are:

- look at the matrix as a representation for the graph and try to
  understand how can you rearrange it to drop all missing values
  (you will easily find ready-maid algorithms for rearranging sparse
  matrices to the optimal (for your case) form by searching
  in the library and/or Internet

- try to use algorithms or modify existent ones to allow for missing
  values. You can also make some conditioning or making a vector (see below)

And also: I do not believe that values you drop are all of equal significance.
For example, if you have time series data where time is on the X axis, then
dropping several consequent columns can make more damage than dropping a row.
In most cases you better interpolate values.

Overall, every item of data is usually valuable for the accuracy.
Sometimes it's better to rework the model than drop any values.

For example, you can try make a matrix 1-column one (vector):

0
0
0
0
0
1
1
0
0
0
0
0

- then just drop missing elements.
Of course, this will be a novel view of your model and
probably other matrices of your model will become 100 bigger.
But computer power is cheaper each day.


Sincerely yours, Roman Suzi
-- 
rnd at onego.ru =\= My AI powered by GNU/Linux RedHat 7.3





From BPettersen at NAREX.com  Fri Jul 25 20:34:20 2003
From: BPettersen at NAREX.com (Bjorn Pettersen)
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 18:34:20 -0600
Subject: Static typing
Message-ID: <60FB8BB7F0EFC7409B75EEEC13E2019202CE473C@admin56.narex.com>

> From: Aahz [mailto:aahz at pythoncraft.com] 
> 
> In article <mailman.1059169958.20638.python-list at python.org>,
> Shane Hathaway  <shane at zope.com> wrote:
> >
> >Well, here's a pattern I've been trying out for this 
> purpose: use assert 
> >statements at the top of the function.
> >
> >def foo(bar, baz):
> >     assert isinstance(bar, int)
> >     assert isinstance(baz, str)
> >
> >I'm quite happy with the pattern, although there are a couple of 
> >negative points that I can think of:
> >
> >- It's a bit verbose, although that verbosity enables you to perform 
> >bounds checking and operate with other type systems like 
> Zope's interfaces.
> >
> >- You can't specify the type of the return values this way.
> 
> You skipped the crucial negative: it breaks Python's name-based
> polymorphism.  If someone creates a class that works just 
> like a string but doesn't derive from the str class, your 
> program breaks for no good reason.

And just for completeness... If you absolutely want a static type
system, that preserves Python's name-based polymorphism, google for
"bounded parametric polymorphism" or "constraint based polymorphism".
Algol/C(++)/Pascal/Java type-declarations are not nearly expressive
enough.

-- bjorn
(e.g.
http://www.cis.ohio-state.edu/~gb/cis888.07g/Papers/p388-litvinov.pdf
gives an introduction to the commonly raised issues/examples in the
context of Cecil).




From richie at entrian.com  Mon Jul 28 07:54:57 2003
From: richie at entrian.com (Richie Hindle)
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 12:54:57 +0100
Subject: Seeing next character in an file
In-Reply-To: <bg12ih$70l$0@216.39.172.122>
References: <CDFUa.42241$wk4.27296@twister.nyroc.rr.com> <pan.2003.07.27.03.01.52.505599@rochester.rr.com> <bg12ih$70l$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <e93aiv0c1t1ta4rbi48feedu93kkq27ukd@4ax.com>

[Keith]
> def peek(self, cnt):
>     data = self.read(cnt)
>     self.seek(cnt * -1, 1)
>     return data
> 	
> def peekline(self):
>     pos = self.tell()
>     data = self.readline()
>     self.seek(pos, 0)
>     return data

[Bengt]
> if you're going to seek/tell, best to do it in binary, and deal with the platform dependent EOLs.

seek() works perfectly with text-mode files as long as you only seek to
places given to you by tell().  So if Keith's peek() function had used
tell() and then seek()ed (sought()? 8-) back to that point like his
peekline() does, there would be no problem.

-- 
Richie Hindle
richie at entrian.com





From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Jul  4 23:22:21 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 23:22:21 -0400
Subject: Google's netnews speed (was Re: pyBoards.com)
References: <191e20c8.0307031711.42d4e46b@posting.google.com> <3F05C39D.3F65B89C@engcorp.com> <be4ijf$oj2$1@panix3.panix.com> <3F05FFFE.DB98BF44@engcorp.com> <be578c$rrs$1@panix2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <3F06446D.739C42DC@engcorp.com>

Aahz wrote:
> 
> Peter, you're thinking less clearly than usual.  ;-)  My point was that
> the delay does *not* come from the time it takes to propagate to Google,
> but from the delay required to index and publish the index.  

(Slapping forehead...)  Of course!  Indexing, right... that.  :-)

I was picturing Groups as nothing more than a big web interface to
Usenet.  Indexing it, too, well that just smacks of overkill, now,
doesn't it?  ;-)

Thanks for the head-straightener.

-Peter



From irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl  Fri Jul 11 14:01:47 2003
From: irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 20:01:47 +0200
Subject: Embedding Python, threading and scalability
In-Reply-To: <7xvfu983ip.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: <mailman.1057884556.438.python-list@python.org> <bemhsb$dgn$1@panix3.panix.com> <7xvfu983ip.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <3f0efb8a$0$49110$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

Paul Rubin wrote:
> aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) writes:
> 
>>Not particularly.  Most threading at the application level is done for
>>one or more of three purposes:
>>
>>* Allowing background work and fast response in a GUI application
>>
>>* Scalable I/O
>>
>>* Autonomous sections of code for algorithmic simplicity (e.g.
>>simulations)
> 
> 
> Um, concurrent access by multiple clients for server applications?

Exactly, that is what I use threads for in Pyro. Without threads,
each of the client's remote method invocations has to wait in line
before being accepted and processed (there can be many clients for
one server object).


--Irmen




From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Fri Jul 11 10:39:18 2003
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 11 Jul 2003 10:39:18 -0400
Subject: Nice presentation of Dana Moore on Oscon
References: <3F0E63AA.4000107@embeddedsystems.nl>
Message-ID: <bemi6m$evd$1@panix3.panix.com>

In article <3F0E63AA.4000107 at embeddedsystems.nl>,
Gerrit Muller  <gerrit.muller at embeddedsystems.nl> wrote:
>
>A very nice presentation. I do have one small comment: Python is 
>characterized as "weakly typed", which should be "dynamic types", or 
>what people often mean to say "not static typed".

Unfortunately, Bruce Eckel has been perpetuating that terminology.  I'm
in the process of writing a rebuttal.

http://www.artima.com/intv/typing.html
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"Not everything in life has a clue in front of it...."  --JMS



From ratman at nmt.edu  Mon Jul 14 16:58:22 2003
From: ratman at nmt.edu (Jason Trowbridge)
Date: 14 Jul 2003 13:58:22 -0700
Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Python_Mystery_Theatre_--_Episode_2:__As=ED_Fue?=
References: <VorQa.15236$Kw1.587@nwrdny02.gnilink.net>
Message-ID: <8f35dab2.0307141258.3da9b9d4@posting.google.com>

I didn't look at docs or try out the code until after trying to solve
the problem.  I'm using Python 2.2.1.  I did not solve Act I or Act
III, and tried them out directly.

Act I
I didn't know that python formatting could do that!  I've always
treated it like C's printf-style of statements, as that seems to be
what it's primarily based off.  I've always used two string
substitutions to first replace the formatting parts, then actually
insert the real substitutions!

Eg:
>>> print ('%%%if' % (10,)) % (0.5,)
  0.500000
Now to find I can do:
>>> print '%*f' % (10, 0.5)
  0.500000

In some respects, moving from C/C++ to Python is a bit like moving
from Linux to Mac OS X.  I use the basic screwdriver, since I know how
and where it is, and don't see the nifty cordless power screwdriver
placed nicely in the cabinet.

Luckily, I have browsed through the entire module index at least once,
so I don't miss the jackhammers and use a trowel instead.


Act II
Again, there's behavior here that I didn't expect.  I first assumed
that the results would be:

print int('0100')          -> 100    (Correct)
print 16, int('0100', 16)  -> 16 256 (Correct)
print 10, int('0100', 10)  -> 10 100 (Correct)
print 8, int('0100', 8)    -> 8 64   (Correct)
print 2, int('0100', 2)    -> 2 4    (Correct)
print 0, int('0100', 0)    -> ?
print -909, int('0100', -909)  -> ?
print -1000, int('0100', -1000) -> ?
print None, int('0100', None) -> None 100 (Wrong, TypeError occurs)

The interesting thing is when I tried it out:
>>> int('0100', 0)
64
>>> int('0100', -909)
100
>>> int('0100', -1000)
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
ValueError: int() base must be >= 2 and <= 36

I am using Python 2.2.1.  According to the doc for int(x, radix), the
part about the radix behaviour is as follows:

The radix parameter gives the base for the conversion and may be any
integer in the range [2, 36], or zero. If radix is zero, the proper
radix is guessed based on the contents of string; the interpretation
is the same as for integer literals.

That explains the 0 radix and the exception caused by the -1000 radix.
 So why does it work with a radix of -909?  I presume a bug (which
probably got fixed in later versions of Python).  I'll have to see if
this behavior is present under Python 2.3b at home.


Act III
Ick.  Lambda's.  Skipping for now.


Act IV
I would guess that it would print:
'Now there are three'
Since the environmental variable one is 'Now there are', and the
environmental variable two is 'three'.

My bad.  Upon running, I get:
'Now there are None'

Apparently, os.putenv() doesn't work like I thought.

Ah!  os.putenv() updates the environment, but not the os.environ
dictionary.  It looks like os.getenv() retrieves the environmental
variables from os.environ, and just assumes that it is up to date. 
Since it defaults to None if the environmental variable doesn't exist
in os.environ[], that's what I get.

Hmm, so os.getenv() and os.putenv() are not symmetric.  This isn't
mentioned in the Python 2.2.1 documentation, as os.getenv() is listed
as:

Return the value of the environment variable varname if it exists, or
value if it doesn't. value defaults to None.

This misleads that it is getting the value from the actual
environment, not the os.environ[] variable.  Nasty and subtle, too!


Act III

Ick.  Lambda's.  Oh well, here's a stab at it.

funcs is a list of functions.
flim is a list of unnamed functions that call the functions in funcs.
flam is a list comprehension of lambda's that call the functions in
funcs.

flim and flam should be functionally equivalent (2/3 pun intended).

The output should be:
 1 2 3
 1 2 3

Since they are just calling the functions listed in funcs (once,
twice, thrice).

Hmm, the output is really:
 1 2 3
 3 3 3

That's odd.  Why is this the result here?

>>> print  [ f.__name__  for f in funcs]
['once', 'twice', 'thrice']

So, f is updating correctly to the next value.

>>> for test in [ lambda x: f.__name__  for f in funcs]: print
test(1), id(test)
...
thrice 135971068
thrice 136291772
thrice 135757396

Okay, so the lambda's being created are unique, yet are being mapped
to the third function.

>>> def fourth(x): return 4*x
...
>>> f
<function thrice at 0x81c36bc>
>>> f = fourth
>>> f
<function fourth at 0x817383c>
>>> flam[0](1)
4

Aha!  So the lambda is looking up f in the current scope when it is
executed! Instead of binding to the actual function object being
iterated over in the list comprehension, the lambda is binding to the
variable 'f' itself?

Ick!  Ick!  Ick!  Bad touch!

(Hey, these are fun!)

 _  () ()      Jason Trowbridge | "... but his last footer says 'page
( '  .~.     Generic Programmer | 3 of 2', which leads me to believe
 \  = o =                       |  something is wrong."
---"`-`-'"---+   ratman at nmt.edu |   --Scott Bucholtz



From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Wed Jul  9 16:16:15 2003
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 9 Jul 2003 16:16:15 -0400
Subject: Sample Web application (Re: Python vs PHP)
References: <mailman.1057574470.1750.python-list@python.org> <kmolgv4mp12o71ocion7ra0m2s9fcrqjdk@4ax.com> <begc78$rui$1@mawar.singnet.com.sg> <VLicnfImRJLPkpGiRTvUqA@speakeasy.net>
Message-ID: <beht6f$56a$1@panix2.panix.com>

In article <VLicnfImRJLPkpGiRTvUqA at speakeasy.net>,
A.M. Kuchling <amk at amk.ca> wrote:
>
>That reminds me: there was also a proposal to revive the Web-SIG.  Ian,
>anything moving on this front?  (My offer to host a list still stands.)

I'd suggest putting it on python.org, so that anyone who who looks at
the mailing lists will find it.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"Not everything in life has a clue in front of it...."  --JMS



From bgailer at alum.rpi.edu  Wed Jul  2 17:01:59 2003
From: bgailer at alum.rpi.edu (Bob Gailer)
Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 15:01:59 -0600
Subject: does lack of type declarations make Python unsafe?
In-Reply-To: <9a6d7d9d.0307020959.634ceb4e@posting.google.com>
References: <3064b51d.0306151228.22c595e0@posting.google.com>
 <ad052e5c.0306151904.52cad325@posting.google.com>
 <1055736914.49032@yasure>
 <uwufmko7g.fsf@boost-consulting.com>
 <3064b51d.0306170436.2b31f9e@posting.google.com>
 <Xns939D905D1B2A3duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>
 <usmq86vit.fsf@boost-consulting.com>
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20030702145436.0234ab18@66.28.54.253>

At 10:59 AM 7/2/2003 -0700, Aaron Watters wrote:

>David Abrahams <dave at boost-consulting.com> wrote in message 
>news:<usmq86vit.fsf at boost-consulting.com>...
> > Duncan Booth <duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk> writes:
> >
> > I'm not saying that Python isn't a wonderful language -- it is.  It's
> > great to have the flexibility of fully dynamic typing available.  All
> > the same, I'm not going to pretend that static typing doesn't have
> > real advantages.  I seriously believe that it's better most of the
> > time, because it helps catch mistakes earlier, makes even simple code
> > easier to maintain, and makes complex code easier to write.  I would
> > trade some convenience for these other strengths.  Although it's very
> > popular around here to say that research has shown static typing
> > doesn't help, I've never seen that research, and my personal
> > experience contradicts the claim anyway.
>
>I'm somewhere on the fence.  I've seen static typing catch errors,
>but I've also seen static typing (in java, say) make the use of a
>hash table into an exercise in code obfuscation.  I'd really like some
>sort of compromise where you could harden types incrementally.  Also
>static typing can make it more difficult for bad programmers to do
>stupid things...
>
>I'd like to see research either way.  I've heard of rumored research
>in both directions.  Personally, I suspect the widely repeated statement
>"90% of programming errors are typing errors" can be traced back to the
>60's when engineers wrote programs on graph paper-like sheets and
>handed them to TYPISTS who then TYPED THEM WRONG onto punch cards.

Except, of course, they were not typists, they were key punch operators, 
and they key-punched. There is of course some skill set overlap, but key 
punching was an art of its own. (former key punch operator, though strictly 
for my own programs).

In addition to the key punch there was also a "verifier" which looked for 
all practical purposes like a key punch. You fed it punched cards, keyed 
what was supposed to be on each card, and the verifier would complain if 
there was a mismatch. There was, also, as I recall, an "interpreter" which 
would read cards and print the value of each column on the top of the card. 
The really skilled operators also were experts at programming the little 
drum that specified what was allowed or not in each column, and tab stops 
for skipping to the next input column.

Bob Gailer
bgailer at alum.rpi.edu
303 442 2625
-------------- next part --------------

---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.492 / Virus Database: 291 - Release Date: 6/24/2003

From mike at nospam.com  Wed Jul 30 15:45:27 2003
From: mike at nospam.com (Mike Rovner)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 12:45:27 -0700
Subject: PyXPCom
References: <3f27e5a8$0$13798$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net>
Message-ID: <bg978m$7h6$1@main.gmane.org>

Guyon Mor?e wrote:
> has anyone examples, docs, binaries, urls, etc????

just 'google PyXPCom' gives you:

ASPN : Komodo : PyXPCOM
PyXPCOM. Description XPCOM is an acronym for "Cross Platform COM". ... See
this page for information on how to build PyXPCOM from source. ...
www.activestate.com/ASPN/Downloads/Komodo/PyXPCOM/ - 19k - Cached - Similar
pages

Getting started with PyXPCOM
... programming in Python. This first part covers installation of PyXPCOM.
IBM, Skip to main content, ... Getting started with PyXPCOM, e-mail it! ...
www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/webservices/ library/co-pyxp1.html - 35k -
Cached - Similar pages

Getting started with PyXPCOM, Part 2
... This second part covers the use of PyXPCOM as a client to XPCOM objects.
IBM, Skip to main content, ... Getting started with PyXPCOM, Part 2, ...
www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/components/ library/co-pyxp2.html - 38k -
Cached - Similar pages
[ More results from www-106.ibm.com ]

Mike








From bogus at antispam.com  Mon Jul 21 00:47:34 2003
From: bogus at antispam.com (Alex)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 00:47:34 -0400
Subject: Stopping a loop with user input. in curses
References: <pan.2003.07.19.21.26.34.776055@antispam.com> <20030720110941.09823.00000321@mb-m11.aol.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2003.07.21.04.47.34.434712@antispam.com>

Hello Ray,

After trying the code, I got the same problem which prompted me to
post to the newsgroup. The clock would properly display but it
wouldn't update every second. If I hit the up-arrow key (or any
other key besides 'q'), the program would then update the time. I
would have to continuously hit a key to get the clock to update
every second.

I have a theory about programming in curses which I've described to
yet another Ray within the same thread. Please read it and tell me
if I'm completely out to lunch here or not (I'm hoping I'm wrong).

Thanks,

Alex




From stephan.diehl at gmx.net  Wed Jul 30 08:36:32 2003
From: stephan.diehl at gmx.net (Stephan Diehl)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 14:36:32 +0200
Subject: python in parallel for pattern discovery in genome data
References: <mailman.1059564044.30278.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bg8e20$lt2$01$1@news.t-online.com>

BalyanM wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> I am new to python.I am using it on redhat linux 9.
> I am interested to run python on a sun machine(SunE420R,os=solaris)
> with 4 cpu's for a pattern discovery/search program on biological
> sequence(genomic sequence).I want to write the python code so that it
> utilizes all the 4 cpu's.Moreover do i need some other libraries.
> Kindly advice.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> Manoj
> 

Just a normal python interpreter won't help any, because of the GIL (Global
Interpreter Lock).
Just from your description, the following module might be something for you:
http://poshmodule.sourceforge.net/
It allows object sharing between differnet python processes.
As I have never worked with it, I can't say, if it's any good.

Stephan



From sschwarzer at sschwarzer.net  Sat Jul 26 14:54:29 2003
From: sschwarzer at sschwarzer.net (Stefan Schwarzer)
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 20:54:29 +0200
Subject: How safe is modifying locals()?
In-Reply-To: <Y_wUa.103853$XV.6162947@twister.austin.rr.com>
References: <BDcUa.100193$XV.6037947@twister.austin.rr.com>	 <MvCdnTkcoJNP_7yiXTWJjw@comcast.com>	 <WMdUa.100343$XV.6044659@twister.austin.rr.com> <mailman.1059173799.17228.python-list@python.org> <ZqlUa.102243$XV.6096809@twister.austin.rr.com> <bfttd5$gtc$1@online.de> <Y_wUa.103853$XV.6162947@twister.austin.rr.com>
Message-ID: <bfuip5$33l$1@online.de>

Paul Paterson wrote:
>> Of course, if you have a better name for your container, that's even
>> better. Think of Ian's Point example. :-)
> 
> I think you may have missed my original post; I am writing a generic VB 
> to Python converter so generating good names based on code intent would 
> be pretty tough! Perhaps in v2.0 ;)

I didn't miss the post, just this specific thing, the _generic_
converter. ;-)

Stefan




From max at alcyone.com  Tue Jul 15 01:08:29 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 22:08:29 -0700
Subject: anything like C++ references?
References: <b8c3hvsesjoumiboobml3nsnajtha99mp1@4ax.com> <mailman.1058129901.28248.python-list@python.org> <plk3hv0s1m2egf4s34jo6vjedk0q8r2mu9@4ax.com> <m365m6ul5c.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <mailman.1058145500.19181.python-list@python.org> <e464hvcq48q3240ecfcs6jqhqf616q7v1a@4ax.com> <3F1256C0.4BDC816F@alcyone.com> <vdl6hvckre5pms4n8bcn0nf1ma09ikse0f@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3F138C4D.F73F08D4@alcyone.com>

Stephen Horne wrote:

> If people are routinely faking the abstraction, maybe that is because
> it is a useful abstraction to have. Maybe it would be better to
> support it explicitly instead of forcing people to use tricks and
> hacks.

But the issue I'd raise is why you think that modification of an object
in a mutable container is "faking the abstraction."  C and C++ have the
concept of a pointer, and that's well and good for those languages. 
Python doesn't, and doesn't need it.  If you want the effect of a C or
C++ pointer in Python, you can get it through very simple means.  The
reason why it's not necessary is that, as has been pointed out,
essentially _all_ "variables" in Python are references/pointers -- they
refer, perhaps non-uniquely, to objects which have identity beyond the
references that have them.  This isn't the best way to explain how
Python's variable system works to newbies, because it introduces
confusion (it's not quite call by value and it's not quite call by
reference; it's call by value where the values are references), but any
variable "points" to a reference.

The equivalent concept to what you're getting at is one of mutability,
and that is handled utterly distinctly than it is in C or C++.  Someone
familiar with Python might argue that it's C++ that's "faking the
abstraction," not the other way around.

They're very different ways of doing things; insisting that the square
peg should be rounded worries people who liked the square hole just
fine.

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ The actor is not quite a human being -- but then, who is?
\__/  George Sanders



From eddie at holyrood.ed.ac.uk  Fri Jul 25 12:35:38 2003
From: eddie at holyrood.ed.ac.uk (Eddie Corns)
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 16:35:38 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Don't want to do the regexp test twice
References: <mailman.1059083242.32477.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bfrm8q$bte$1@scotsman.ed.ac.uk>

Egbert Bouwman <egbert.list at hccnet.nl> writes:

>While looping over a long list (with file records)
>I use an (also long) if..elif sequence.
>One of these elif's tests a regular expression, and 
>if the test succeeds, I want to use a part of the match.
>Something like this:

>pat = re.compile(r'...')
>for line in mylist:
>    if ... :
>        ....
>    elif ... :
>        ....
>    elif pat.search(line):
>        mat = pat.search(line)
>    elif ... :
>       ...
>    else ...:
>       ...
>Is there a way to to do this job with only one pat.search(line) ?
>Of course I can do this:

>for line in mylist:
>    mat = pat.search(line)
>    if  ...:
>        ....
>    elif ...:
>        ....
>    elif mat:
>        ...
>but the test is relevant in only a relatively small number of cases.    
>And i would like to know if there exists a general solution
>for this kind of problem.

Unless I'm missing something (as usual), how about:

def lookup_func (line, pat, mat):
  x = re.search (...)
  if x:
    mat.append (x)
    return x


mat = []
for line in mylist:
    if  ...:
        ....
    elif ...:
        ....
    elif lookup_func (line, pat, mat):
        # data is in mat[-1]
	mat = []	# for next time
    el...

ie you abstract out the code that gets the match data and get it to tell you
whether it succeeded or not.  Depending on your requirements it may be able to
handle several such operations with the one lookup function.

Eddie



From mcherm at mcherm.com  Thu Jul 17 08:43:54 2003
From: mcherm at mcherm.com (Michael Chermside)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 05:43:54 -0700
Subject: anything like C++ references?
Message-ID: <1058445834.3f169a0a81670@mcherm.com>

Adam Ruth writes:
> You are correct in that there are times when pointer semantics would be 
> somewhat useful, but they're never necessary.  His statement was that 
> there are time that "you really can't avoid pointers".  That's not true.  
> I definitely went a little overboard, and it sounds like I'm saying, 
> "not only are pointers not necessary, they're never desirable".  My tone 
> was a bit more knee jerk than was prudent.

So it sounds like we ALL agree: (1) pointers are never *necessary*, and
(2) they're sometimes useful.

Adam Ruth writes:
> Your code example isn't really about pointers, though, as the C++ 
> version doesn't use pointers.

You're right... poor example. In my effort to simplify (and remember)
the example, I left out the fact that the function "makeNewComplexObject"
in this case) was responsible for incrementing i and sometimes didn't
increment it. Frankly, it was a messy piece of C++ code and I wouldn't
have done it that way in Python except that it was useful to translate
more-or-less directly from the working C++. And I used it as an example
because it was the only time I could think of (in real code) where I
used the "one-item-list as a fake pointer" idiom in Python. (Although
I've needed it in Java quite often.) Which goes to support your point
that Python's design makes the pointer thing useful much less often.

Adam Ruth writes:
> I would be interested in seeing a more complex example where something 
> would be substantially cleaner with pointers.  I have to acknowledge the 
> possibility that they exist, I don't know everything... yet :)

Good point. I think you should be granted a default judgement... it's
now up to pointer proponants (who are they?) to show a case where
"pointers" really are useful in Python.[1] I tried, and my example hasn't
even convinced myself.

-- Michael Chermside

[1] Python with Horne-style parameter passing obviously needs pointers,
    but that's not the question here, since that language doesn't
    exist!





From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Jul 18 19:12:20 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 19:12:20 -0400
Subject: IMAP examples
References: <3f15cf46$0$45389$1b62eedf@news.wanadoo.nl> <cb035744.0307162203.6b058ee1@posting.google.com> <mailman.1058451388.5767.python-list@python.org> <1058561410.563105@smirk>
Message-ID: <3F187ED4.6179CDDD@engcorp.com>

"James T. Dennis" wrote:
> 
> Sean 'Shaleh' Perry <shalehperry at comcast.net> wrote:
> 
> >> If my english was better I would love to help improve the python
> >> documentation, most modules in the standard libraries lack good
> >> examples how to *use* them with just a simple description.  And a
> >> short motivation for the design of a module if possible like "just
> >> copied the C API" or "Because of efficiency ..." or "We use a class
> >> framework here because ...".  A gigantic task.  The PSL book by effbot
> >> is great but it's a book.  And it needs a new version.
> 
> > part of the reason why the docs are not but so great is that most of the
> > library is Python code which means any questions can be answered by reading
> > the source.  I find myself doing this quite often.
> 
>  <flame>That's BS!</flame>
> 
>  As a dabbler in programming I have to say that poor documentation is not
>  excused by the availability of sources.  

True, but poor documentation *is* excused quite nicely by the LACK
of availability of _re_sources, specifically the human resources and time
required to make them better.

Or was your flame an indirect offer to assist with improving the 
documentation of Python?  If so, thank you!

(It's not like you've paid anything for the privilege of whining...)

-Peter



From ebolonev at rol.ru  Fri Jul  4 05:19:32 2003
From: ebolonev at rol.ru (Egor Bolonev)
Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 20:19:32 +1100
Subject: enumerate example
References: <be3akm$khf$2@news.rol.ru> <mailman.1057307474.1896.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <be3ijo$nj3$1@news.rol.ru>

Hello, Andreas!
You wrote  on Fri, 04 Jul 2003 10:30:56 +0200:

Thanks!

 AJ> 0 a
 AJ> 1 b
 AJ> 2 c

 AJ> --On Freitag, 4. Juli 2003 18:19 Uhr +1100 Egor Bolonev
 AJ> <ebolonev at rol.ru> wrote:

 ??>> Hello, All!
 ??>> 
 ??>> Any useful example for enumerate, please.
 ??>> 
 ??>> With best regards, Egor Bolonev.  E-mail: ebolonev at rol.ru [ru eo en]
 ??>> 
 ??>> --
 ??>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


With best regards, Egor Bolonev.  E-mail: ebolonev at rol.ru [ru eo en]




From aes at demnet.ubi.pt  Tue Jul  8 18:21:47 2003
From: aes at demnet.ubi.pt (aes)
Date: 8 Jul 2003 15:21:47 -0700
Subject: pymat in windows 98
Message-ID: <d4c38682.0307081421.15fd6294@posting.google.com>

Hi

I'm trying to interface Python with MatLab. But I'm have the following
problem whem I try to import PyMat module.

>>> import pymat
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<pyshell#7>", line 1, in ?
    import pymat
ImportError: DLL load failed: Um dispositivo ligado ao sistema n?o
est? a funcionar.

Who Can help me please!?

Best regards
AES



From dgallion1 at yahoo.com  Tue Jul  8 09:58:30 2003
From: dgallion1 at yahoo.com (Darrell)
Date: 8 Jul 2003 06:58:30 -0700
Subject: win32security.LogonUser
Message-ID: <b0c5da3a.0307080558.ba3d879@posting.google.com>

On windows 2000 I tried to use winprocess.py with the login option.
In an effort to run as a diffrent user.
It didn't work and lots of searching didn't help.
This was my best hit.
http://www.faqts.com/knowledge_base/view.phtml/aid/4466

Worked around the problem using runas.exe

This is as far as I got.
The following code tries to give me every Privilege it can then fails.
pywintypes.error: (1314, 'LogonUser', 'A required privilege is not
held by the client.')

--Darrell


import win32con, os, sys
sys.path.append(os.sep.join(win32con.__file__.split(os.sep)[:-2])+os.sep+"demos")
    
import winprocess
from ntsecuritycon import *
import ntsecuritycon, win32security, win32api
    
def AdjustPrivilege(priv, enable = 1): 
    print priv
    # Get the process token. 
    flags = TOKEN_ADJUST_PRIVILEGES | TOKEN_QUERY |TOKEN_DUPLICATE|
TOKEN_IMPERSONATE

    #flags= TOKEN_QUERY 
    htoken = win32security.OpenProcessToken(win32api.GetCurrentProcess(),
flags)
    # Get the ID for the privilege. 
    try:
        id = win32security.LookupPrivilegeValue(None, priv) 
    except:
        print 'Fail'
        return
    # Now obtain the privilege for this process. 
    # Create a list of the privileges to be added. 
    if enable: 
        newPrivileges = [(id, SE_PRIVILEGE_ENABLED)] 
    else: 
        newPrivileges = [(id, 0)] 
        # and make the adjustment. 
    win32security.AdjustTokenPrivileges(htoken, 0, newPrivileges) 

# now set the rights 
if 1:
    for k, v in ntsecuritycon.__dict__.items():
        if k.find("SE_")==0 and isinstance(v, str):
            print k,
            AdjustPrivilege(v)
    
AdjustPrivilege(SE_CHANGE_NOTIFY_NAME) 
AdjustPrivilege(SE_TCB_NAME) 
AdjustPrivilege(SE_ASSIGNPRIMARYTOKEN_NAME)

SE_INTERACTIVE_LOGON_NAME = "SeInteractiveLogonRight"
#AdjustPrivilege(SE_INTERACTIVE_LOGON_NAME)

if __name__ == '__main__':

    # Pipe commands to a shell and display the output in notepad
    print 'Testing winprocess.py...'

    import tempfile

    timeoutSeconds = 15
    cmdString = """\
REM      Test of winprocess.py piping commands to a shell.\r
REM      This window will close in %d seconds.\r
vol\r
net user\r
_this_is_a_test_of_stderr_\r
""" % timeoutSeconds

    cmd, out = tempfile.TemporaryFile(), tempfile.TemporaryFile()
    cmd.write(cmdString)
    cmd.seek(0)
    print 'CMD.EXE exit code:', winprocess.run('cmd.exe', show=0,
stdin=cmd, login=".\nuser\nuser1",#administrator\n",
                                    stdout=out, stderr=out)
    cmd.close()
    print 'NOTEPAD exit code:', winprocess.run('notepad.exe %s' %
out.file.name,
                                    show=win32con.SW_MAXIMIZE,
                                    mSec=timeoutSeconds*1000)
    out.close()



From tim.harford at rogers.com  Sun Jul  6 19:59:17 2003
From: tim.harford at rogers.com (Tim)
Date: Sun, 06 Jul 2003 23:59:17 GMT
Subject: help! - cmd line interpreter gone "dumb"
References: <u6_Na.81768$2ay.70089@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com> <mailman.1057524309.16869.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pJ2Oa.69154$a51.22710@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>

Yes, reboot or have the programmer give his head a shake. ;-)

I love this language, but getting used to the little set up details I
guess...Half of it was my own ignorance, but it's not obvious.

For the record...

if I don't define any paths for Python, it naturally knows were to go for
the core + libraries.
but, if you define the PYTHONPATH in the environment--only those directories
are searched. It was probably the late night that had me forget when I
changed things (funny--its seemed to work for a long while, but the changes
may not have been reflected if I had the same command window open the entire
evening (this was the case, I think).

It makes sense...

Tim



"Gerhard H?ring" <gh at ghaering.de> wrote in message
news:mailman.1057524309.16869.python-list at python.org...
> Tim wrote:
> > Maybe I've been working too long, but has anyon had their python
interpreter
> > stop taking commands.
> >
> > The IDLE version works fine, but under Windoze:
> >
> > 1) execute "python" in teh command shell
> > 2) ...interpreter comes up fine
> > 3) type in anything and you get "SyntaxError: invalid syntax"
> >
> > Literally, you could type in "import sys" or anything common and you get
the
> > same results.
>
> I've seen that when I used os.spawn* (or was it os.execv*?), apparently
> in a wrong way.
>
> > Any help greatly appreciated--thanks.
>
> Typical Windows answer: reboot and try again ;-)
>
> -- Gerhard
>





From mfranklin1 at gatwick.westerngeco.slb.com  Thu Jul 17 05:30:12 2003
From: mfranklin1 at gatwick.westerngeco.slb.com (Martin Franklin)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 10:30:12 +0100
Subject: Jython classpath question
In-Reply-To: <pan.2003.07.17.02.29.12.502474@removme.bom.gov.au>
References: <pan.2003.07.17.02.29.12.502474@removme.bom.gov.au>
Message-ID: <200307171030.13174.mfranklin1@gatwick.westerngeco.slb.com>

On Thursday 17 July 2003 03:29, Tennessee James Leeuwenburg wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Sorry for the newb question, but Googling and FAQing didn't work. Is it
> correct that Jython can only access Java classes which are inside JAR
> archives in the JYTHON_HOME directory? IT doesn't seem to be documented. I
> ask because I want to do groovy prototyping using Jython, and save myself
> a lot of coding overhead to try something a little out-of-the-box.
>

No you can import a java .class file.  Just make sure it's on the python path 
(sys.path)  if both .py and .class files are in the same directory then you 
need do nothing...  if not then you could add the directory containing the 
java class files to python sys.path like so:

import sys

sys.path.append("/path/to/java/class/files")


for more information / alternative suggestions look at :-

http://www.jython.org/docs/registry.html

Regards
Martin




From edreamleo at charter.net  Wed Jul 16 11:23:26 2003
From: edreamleo at charter.net (Edward K. Ream)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 10:23:26 -0500
Subject: Nice presentation of Dana Moore on Oscon
References: <3F0E63AA.4000107@embeddedsystems.nl> <bemi6m$evd$1@panix3.panix.com> <bf2he2$k03$1@panix3.panix.com>
Message-ID: <vharffbid2u5f6@corp.supernews.com>

Many thanks for your rebuttal.

My picture of the situation is this: the Python interpreter is in effect
placing assert statements after (inside) every Python statement. This makes
Python in practice much more safe and convenient than any static language.

No, this doesn't directly relate to types.  However, IMO the real issues
aren't about types, they are about safety and convenience.  Python crushes
any static language as far as convenience goes.  This much is obvious.

Theoretically all languages are unsafe.  Python programs can throw uncaught
exceptions just like C++ asserts can fail. In practice, though, the Python
interpreter makes development so much safer that one can just "blast away"
without worrying too much about the kinds of things compilers typically
worry about.  And my Python programs have been much more robust than the
equivalent C++ programs, even without pychecker's help.

This is probably all obvious to Pythonists, and incomprehensible to others.
Oh well... :-)

Edward
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Edward K. Ream   email:  edreamleo at charter.net
Leo: Literate Editor with Outlines
Leo: http://webpages.charter.net/edreamleo/front.html
--------------------------------------------------------------------







From theller at python.net  Fri Jul  4 07:33:27 2003
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 13:33:27 +0200
Subject: [Dream] A meta-wrapper module to interface any C dynamic
 library
References: <pan.2003.07.04.10.59.31.477048@virgilio.it>
Message-ID: <7k6yh6go.fsf@python.net>

"Francesco Bochicchio" <bockman at virgilio.it> writes:

> Hi all,
>
> I was wondering if it would be possible to make a module which allows to
> do something like that:
>
> 	import c_interface
> 	math_lib = c_interface.load('math.so', 'math.h' )
> 	sin_f = math_lib.get_function('sin')
> 	print "sin(3.14) = %f" % sin_f (3.14)
>
> The idea would be to make a module that allows to use any C dynamic
> library ( I used an hypothetical math.so only as example ) without 
> the need of a specific wrapper module.
>
> I've given some thought to this idea, but I was blocked by the theoric (?)
> impossibility to correctly call a C function without knowing its prototype
> at compile time.
>
> Did anybody ever attempted to do something like this?

Yes, it already exists (to some degree).

http://starship.python.net/crew/theller/ctypes/

Thomas



From bokr at oz.net  Sat Jul 19 11:44:13 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 19 Jul 2003 15:44:13 GMT
Subject: The definition of an object in Python
References: <94af9c5a.0307130919.1ab63400@posting.google.com> <fcd9edc1.0307190052.3aa75818@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bfbp0d$ksb$0@216.39.172.122>

On 19 Jul 2003 01:52:56 -0700, wesc at deirdre.org (Wesley J. Chun) wrote:
[...]
>>   Wesley says that every Python object must possess the following
>>   three characteristics: 1) an identity, which can be retrieved 
>>   by the function id(); 2) a type, which can be retrieved by
>>   the function type(); and 3) a value.
>
>again, this is also (still) true.  (1) the identity is what makes an
>object unique from every other object currently in the interpreter.
                                       ^^^^^^^^^
This should perhaps be emphasized. E.g., these results are not guaranteed,
but they can happen:

 >>> idvalue = id(123)
 >>> idvalue, id(456)
 (7952152, 7952152)
 >>> idvalue == id(456)
 1

I.e., the value of id(x) is not valid beyond the lifetime of x, which is
obviously ok, but mistaken reuse of id-like numbers (e.g., such as you get from
file('somefile').fileno()) is a traditional source of bugs, and I imagine
naive use of id() could lead to similar ones.

>some people view this as a "memory address" altho you wouldn't
>use it as such since Python handles the memory management 4 u.
>you are just guaranteed that any other object in the system will
>NOT have the same id.  (2) the type of an object defines what its
>characteristics (i.e., what methods and attributes it has, etc.) are,
>and (3) the value goes without saying.

Re (3): until, perhaps, you start taking about copying or pickling? ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From tim at gerla.net  Thu Jul 10 15:57:59 2003
From: tim at gerla.net (Tim Gerla)
Date: 10 Jul 2003 12:57:59 -0700
Subject: treeview / pygtk problem
In-Reply-To: <eafaf631.0307101053.34cfa08f@posting.google.com>
References: <eafaf631.0307101053.34cfa08f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1057867079.12251.7.camel@redwall.ofsloans.com>

On Thu, 2003-07-10 at 11:53, Andre Lerche wrote:
> Hi list,
> 
> I am quite new to Python and try to learn Python with a small pygtk
> program. I am facing a problem which I am unable to solve for myself.
> I think I have read the documentation and some samples, but however
> I cannot find my mistake, so hopefully someone can help me with a
> short hint. This is a small sample application which demonstrates
> my problem:
> 
> import gtk as g
> import gobject
> 
> window = g.Window ()
> window.connect ('delete_event', g.mainquit)
> scrolledwin = g.ScrolledWindow ()
> renderer = g.CellRendererText ()
> col1 = g.TreeViewColumn ("col 1", renderer, text=1)
> col2 = g.TreeViewColumn ("col 2", renderer, text=1)
                                               ----^
That's your problem right there: text= expects a sequence from 0 to n.
So try:

col1 = g.TreeViewColumn ("col 1", renderer, text=0)
col2 = g.TreeViewColumn ("col 2", renderer, text=1)

That should solve your problem!  

-Tim
tim at gerla.net





From vze4rx4y at verizon.net  Sat Jul 19 19:23:25 2003
From: vze4rx4y at verizon.net (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 23:23:25 GMT
Subject: feature request: a better str.endswith
References: <2259b0e2.0307180401.5dae02f2@posting.google.com> <mailman.1058530829.7072.python-list@python.org> <3f17f883$0$49107$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl> <2259b0e2.0307190529.57338b3f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <NpkSa.16049$7O.14695@nwrdny01.gnilink.net>

[Michele Simionato]
> > >>I often feel the need to extend  the string method ".endswith" to tuple
> > >>arguments, in such a way to automatically check for multiple endings.
> > >>For instance, here is a typical use case:
> > >>
> > >>if filename.endswith(('.jpg','.jpeg','.gif','.png')):
> > >>    print "This is a valid image file"

[Jp]
> > >     extensions = ('.jpg', '.jpeg', '.gif', '.png')
> > >     if filter(filename.endswith, extensions):
> > >         print "This is a valid image file
> > >
> > >   Jp


[Irmen]
> > Using filter Michele's original statement becomes:
> >
> > if filter(filename.endswith, ('.jpg','.jpeg','.gif','.png')):
> >      print "This is a valid image file"
> >
> > IMHO this is simple enough to not require a change to the
> > .endswith method...

[Michele]
> I haven't thought of "filter". It is true, it works, but is it really
> readable? I had to think to understand what it is doing.
> My (implicit) rationale for
>
> filename.endswith(('.jpg','.jpeg','.gif','.png'))
>
> was that it works exactly as "isinstance", so it is quite
> obvious what it is doing. I am asking just for a convenience,
> which has already a precedent in the language and respects
> the Principle of Least Surprise.

I prefer that this feature not be added.  Convenience functions
like this one rarely pay for themselves because:

   -- The use case is not that common (afterall, endswith() isn't even
       used that often).

   -- It complicates the heck out of the C code

   -- Checking for optional arguments results in a slight slowdown
       for the normal case.

   -- It is easy to implement a readable version in only two or three
       lines of pure python.

   -- It is harder to read because it requires background knowledge
      of how endswith() handles a tuple (quick, does it take any
      iterable or just a tuple, how about a subclass of tuple; is it
      like min() and max() in that it *args works just as well as
      argtuple; which python version implemented it, etc).

  -- It is a pain to keep the language consistent.  Change endswith()
      and you should change startswith().  Change the string object and
      you should also change the unicode object and UserString and
      perhaps mmap.  Update the docs for each and add test cases for
      each (including weird cases with zero-length tuples and such).

  -- The use case above encroaches on scanning patterns that are
      already efficiently implemented by the re module.

  -- Worst of all, it increases the sum total of python language to be
      learned without providing much in return.

  -- In general, the language can be kept more compact, efficient, and
     maintainable by not trying to vectorize everything (the recent addition
     of the __builtin__.sum() is a rare exception that is worth it).  It is
     better to use a general purpose vectorizing function (like map, filter,
     or reduce).  This particular case is best implemented in terms of the
     some() predicate documented in the examples for the new itertools module
     (though any() might have been a better name for it):

         some(filename.endswith, ('.jpg','.jpeg','.gif','.png'))

     The implementation of some() is better than the filter version because
     it provides an "early-out" upon the first successful hit.


Raymond Hettinger

















From gregbrunet at NOSPAMsempersoft.com  Tue Jul  1 22:09:58 2003
From: gregbrunet at NOSPAMsempersoft.com (Greg Brunet)
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 21:09:58 -0500
Subject: Howto: extract a 'column' from a list of lists into a new list?
References: <vg1mbarhe86d2d@corp.supernews.com> <3f013fb1$0$97259$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
Message-ID: <vg4jrdp4gg7e95@corp.supernews.com>

"Max M" <maxm at mxm.dk> wrote in message
news:3f013fb1$0$97259$edfadb0f at dread12.news.tele.dk...
> Greg Brunet wrote:
> > but I expect that one of those fancy map/lamda/list comprehension
> > functions can turn this into a list for me, but, to be honest, they
> > still make my head spin trying to figure them out.  Any ideas on how
to
> > do this simply?
>
> fields = [
>      ('STOCKNO', 'C', 8, 0),
>      ('DACC', 'C', 5, 0),
>      ('DEALERACCE', 'C', 30, 0),
>      ('D-ACCRTL', 'C', 9, 0),
>      ('D-ACCCST', 'C', 9, 0)
> ]
>
>
> # The "old" way to do it would be:
> NAME_COLUMN = 0
> results = []
> for field in fields:
>      results.append(field[NAME_COLUMN])
> print results
>
>
> # But list comprehensions are made for exactly this purpose
> NAME_COLUMN = 0
> results = [field[NAME_COLUMN] for field in fields]
> print results

Max:

Thanks for that clarification of list comprehensions.  Now there's a
better "Greg comprehension" of the subject. [groan -  I know that was
bad, but it's been a rough couple of days of programming, & it usually
brings that type of comment out,  sorry ;) ]

Thanks for your help,

-- 
Greg




From egbert.list at hccnet.nl  Sun Jul 27 10:41:22 2003
From: egbert.list at hccnet.nl (Egbert Bouwman)
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 16:41:22 +0200
Subject: Tools for reading Dr Dobb's Python-URL
In-Reply-To: <3f23bc25$0$49102$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
References: <mailman.1059296203.18871.python-list@python.org> <3f23bc25$0$49102$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <20030727144122.GA1689@mirk.lan>

On Sun, Jul 27, 2003 at 01:48:55PM +0200, Irmen de Jong wrote:
> 
> Open the message in your news reader.
> Click on an URL in the message.
> 
> Sorry, couldn't resist. I'm not sure what you want to
> do, really? 

My mail reader is the text-based Mutt, which:
- doesn't react to mouse clicks
- does show url's in a different color
- seems not to do anything useful with them

The Mutt-documentation says that in order to read the document 
an url refers to, you have to pipe the e-mail into another program,
eg. urlview. 
But that program only shows a list of all the url's in the 
e-mail-message, without context, and that is not very illuminating, 
especially not if many of them refer to googled [mailman] groups.

So I am am looking for something better. 
egbert
-- 
Egbert Bouwman - Keizersgracht 197 II - 1016 DS  Amsterdam - 020 6257991
========================================================================




From abelikov72 at hotmail.com  Tue Jul  8 11:56:58 2003
From: abelikov72 at hotmail.com (Afanasiy)
Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 15:56:58 GMT
Subject: Python vs PHP
References: <mailman.1057574470.1750.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <kmolgv4mp12o71ocion7ra0m2s9fcrqjdk@4ax.com>

On Mon, 07 Jul 2003 13:47:00 +0300, Catalin <ady982 at ploiesti.astral.ro>
wrote:

>Can Python replace PHP?
>Can I use a python program to make an interface to a mysql 4.X database?
>If that's possible where can I find a tutorial?
>

I recommend Spyce, Webware, or Quixote depending on your requirements,
but Draco, SkunkWeb, RoadKill are worth looking into as well. Spyce is
really the best (for PHP-ness) in my opinion, after you actually get past
the fact that it supports your old fashioned notion of what embedded
delimiters should look like, as well as a new CTS-friendly alternative.

Spyce is the closest thing to PHP, but also provides some features PHP
does not. However, I think you will find some people, like myself, who are
still unable to make the switch from PHP to Python for web development,
because of a lot of little things. These people know Python is better and
may even know their non-web PHP applications are hell compared to their
Python re-implementations. However, they still use PHP for web development
and feel they have to. They may have even written out all the requirements
and received vague responses to them.

Python web development is fragmented. Mod_python CVS now contains the work
of what used to be mod_psp by Sterling Hughes, a PHP warlord, I'm sure
he'll reply. This possibly soon to be official 'PSP' is not much in my
opinion and should probably not be folded into mod_python. Others agree:

http://www.modpython.org/pipermail/mod_python/2003-June/003200.html

Another big problem with Python web development is the lack of good shared
hosting support. Primarily the lack of anything resembling PHP's safe
mode. Mod_python has no equivalent of this safe mode, but Apache 2's
'Perchild MPM' is supposed deprecates this need. However, this still
requires an httpd.conf edit and a restart of Apache for every user added,
very annoying, especially to a shared hosting service.

http://apache.slashdot.org/apache/02/12/02/1346206.shtml?tid=
http://httpd.apache.org/docs-2.0/mod/perchild.html
http://www.modpython.org/pipermail/mod_python/2001-November/001705.html

A couple other slight issues :

* catch-all error handling not as flexible or non-existent
* no equivalent to php_value auto_prepend_file "_header.php"
* no equivalent to php_value auto_append_file "_footer.php"
* not as intelligent form value handling
* white space sensitivity is a unique problem when embedding

The best options for me are currently :

* use PHP
* use Spyce
* fork Spyce (creating more fragmentation)
* embed python straight into my favorite platform (quite funny)
* write my own mod_python-based platform (more fragmentation)
* find the holy grail (i must have missed it)

I've been handling this dilemma for months. I've even benchmarked quite a
few possible solutions, with pleasing results in those which I thought
were well done, and pleasing results for Python over PHP in general.

-AB



From pipen at beast_tu_kielce.pl  Sun Jul 13 12:46:45 2003
From: pipen at beast_tu_kielce.pl (Artur M. Piwko)
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 16:46:45 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: wxPython - question
References: <slrnbgre73.fld.pipen@beast.tu.kielce.pl> <3cp1hvgjkfeih2k3f0mo0he7mn4lmt7u7q@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <slrnbh339p.dkj.pipen@beast.tu.kielce.pl>

In the darkest hour on Sat, 12 Jul 2003 21:55:39 -0700,
Tim Roberts <timr at probo.com> screamed:
>>How can I remove program entry from taskbar (not tray)?
> 
> PLEASE resist the temptation to built Yet Another Tray Application.  Win32
> programmers seem to use the tray icons as a sign of their guruness, and
> every one of them seems to think that his application is so studly that it
> must occupy permanent real estate on my desktop.  I've seen some trays that
> bloat to 20 or 30 icons.
> 
> Don't do it.  Your application just isn't that important.  If you need to
> notify me of something, I find nothing wrong with a good old-fashioned
> dialog box.
>

I am writing Jabber/others messenger. In this case, tray icon is not a sign of
guruness, but user friendliness.

Artur

-- 
Before the Goat of Mendes... we all must take our turn   |  Artur M. Piwko
Into the magic circle... where still the fire burns      |  mailto:s/_/./
We're spinning round and round... until one takes a fall | -- Mercyful Fate
The fallen one will not return, the fallen one must burn | "Witches' Dance"



From shalehperry at comcast.net  Thu Jul 17 10:15:25 2003
From: shalehperry at comcast.net (Sean 'Shaleh' Perry)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 07:15:25 -0700
Subject: IMAP examples
In-Reply-To: <cb035744.0307162203.6b058ee1@posting.google.com>
References: <3f15cf46$0$45389$1b62eedf@news.wanadoo.nl> <cb035744.0307162203.6b058ee1@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <200307170715.25697.shalehperry@comcast.net>

>
> If my english was better I would love to help improve the python
> documentation, most modules in the standard libraries lack good
> examples how to *use* them with just a simple description.  And a
> short motivation for the design of a module if possible like "just
> copied the C API" or "Because of efficiency ..." or "We use a class
> framework here because ...".  A gigantic task.  The PSL book by effbot
> is great but it's a book.  And it needs a new version.

part of the reason why the docs are not but so great is that most of the 
library is Python code which means any questions can be answered by reading 
the source.  I find myself doing this quite often.

Many modules have a little blurb at the top that gives an example of their 
usage.

from imaplib.py:

    Instantiate with: IMAP4([host[, port]])

            host - host's name (default: localhost);
            port - port number (default: standard IMAP4 port).

    All IMAP4rev1 commands are supported by methods of the same
    name (in lower-case).

    All arguments to commands are converted to strings, except for
    AUTHENTICATE, and the last argument to APPEND which is passed as
    an IMAP4 literal.  If necessary (the string contains any
    non-printing characters or white-space and isn't enclosed with
    either parentheses or double quotes) each string is quoted.
    However, the 'password' argument to the LOGIN command is always
    quoted.  If you want to avoid having an argument string quoted
    (eg: the 'flags' argument to STORE) then enclose the string in
    parentheses (eg: "(\Deleted)").

    Each command returns a tuple: (type, [data, ...]) where 'type'
    is usually 'OK' or 'NO', and 'data' is either the text from the
    tagged response, or untagged results from command.





From tjreedy at udel.edu  Mon Jul 28 11:30:32 2003
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 11:30:32 -0400
Subject: Why instancemethod when I can add functions to classes outside class body?
References: <6f03c4a5.0307242027.85f195a@posting.google.com> <m3oezj6v6w.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <slrnbi1hsk.hkq.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local> <3f210717$0$76049$edfadb0f@dread11.news.tele.dk> <z66cnQ3uq8sT8byiU-KYvw@comcast.com> <6f03c4a5.0307280705.6a4ab103@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <28Kdncq1IrIE3LiiXTWJgA@comcast.com>

"Rim" <rimbalaya at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:6f03c4a5.0307280705.6a4ab103 at posting.google.com...
> "Terry Reedy" <tjreedy at udel.edu> wrote in message
> > So to answer the OP's question, the problem solved is that
directly
> > assigning a function as an instance attribute binds the function
as a
> > function, which means no *automatic* access to the instance and
its
> > other attributes.

> I don't understand why you say "no automatic access".

Re-read the sentence again.  The key point is 'assign ... as instance
attribute'.

> If you examine
> the following, I have access to the attributes defined in the class,
> without doing anything special:
>
> >>> class a:
> ...    def __init__(self,name):
> ...       self.msg = "hi"
> ...       self.name = name
> ...
> >>> def f(self):
> ...    print "hello"
> ...    print self.msg
> ...    print self.name
> ...
> >>> a.f = f

a is the class, not an instance, making the new class attribute f a
method just as if it has been part of the class statement.

> >>> b=a("Joe")
> >>> b.f()
> hello
> hi
> Joe

Try b.f = f instead and then call b.f() and b.f(b).

Now try b.f = new.instancemethod(f) and then call b.f() and b.f(b).

The results should answer your questions.

Terry J. Reedy

> >So to answer the OP's question, the problem solved is that directly
> >assigning a function as an instance attribute binds the function as
a
> >function, which means no *automatic* access to the instance and its
> >other attributes.  If such access is needed, the instance must be
> >passed explicitly, as in
> >a1.f = lambda self: repr(self)
> >a1.f(a1)
> >
> >Instancemethod adds the option of wrapping instance-specific
functions
> >as bound methods getting the instance as an automatic first (self)
> >paramater, just like with class-wide methods.  In the 'hi' example





From duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk  Wed Jul 16 10:29:21 2003
From: duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk (Duncan Booth)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 14:29:21 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: <> and !=
References: <3F154B63.3060503@hotmail.com> <3F154BBD.2060304@hotmail.com> <3jlahv8o1fcu2j0oij2p31c32nftnb3er8@4ax.com> <3F155B6D.8000205@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <Xns93BA9BB2977B8duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

hokiegal99 <hokiegal99 at hotmail.com> wrote in 
news:3F155B6D.8000205 at hotmail.com:

> Thank you, that is what I thought. What's the reason for having two 
> symbols mean the same thing?
> 
Originally Python only had '<>' for the not-equal comparison. Version 0.9.3 
added a bunch of C like syntax, such as C's shifting and masking operators. 
It also added C style '==' and '!=' comparison operators. The original '<>' 
remains valid for backwards compatibility.

-- 
Duncan Booth                                             duncan at rcp.co.uk
int month(char *p){return(124864/((p[0]+p[1]-p[2]&0x1f)+1)%12)["\5\x8\3"
"\6\7\xb\1\x9\xa\2\0\4"];} // Who said my code was obscure?



From http  Mon Jul 28 18:23:40 2003
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 28 Jul 2003 15:23:40 -0700
Subject: Fastest way to count your iterations?
References: <a9e86706.0307281041.395e3bc8@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <7xsmoqguj7.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

tracer at axiomfire.com (Tracy Ruggles) writes:
> def counter(items, f, sep=1000):
> 	i = 0
> 	for item in items:
> 		f(item)
> 		i += 1
> 		if i % sep == 0:
> 			print i

How's this, if items is a sequence:

def counter(items, f, sep=1000):
   for i in xrange(0, len(items), sep):
      map(f, items[i:i+sep])
      if i > 0:
         print i



From sabu at pure-elite.org  Fri Jul  4 06:55:36 2003
From: sabu at pure-elite.org (Xavier)
Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 06:55:36 -0400
Subject: Gathering variable names from within a function.
Message-ID: <004001c3421a$ccb3e370$6401a8c0@boxen>

Greetings,

I was wondering if there was a way to get a list of all the variables which
were executed/created/modified within a function?

Here is a simple example that comes to my mind:

def getVars(func):
    ...
    ...
    ...

def modVar(arg, arg2):

    Var1 = arg
    Var2 = arg2
    Var3 = arg+arg2
    return Var3

def main():

    print getVars(modVar('test', 'test2'))

# end

naturally, "Var1", "Var2" and "Var3" should be printed to the user.  Any
idea?

-- Xavier

oderint dum metuant






From vze4rx4y at verizon.net  Wed Jul  2 12:49:53 2003
From: vze4rx4y at verizon.net (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 16:49:53 GMT
Subject: Newbie advice for string fromatting
References: <f9b7c11d.0307020642.7231cd82@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <R2EMa.9$_O4.4@nwrdny02.gnilink.net>

"gt" <gtewalt at earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:f9b7c11d.0307020642.7231cd82 at posting.google.com...
> O.k., four days into playing with python
> and I have a little problem that I would like
> to get some feedback on.
> ( as far as the best way to go about it )
>
> Basically, just a little Mad-Libs type script.
>
> Something like:
>
> libs = ["adverb", "noun", "verb", "tool"]
> words = {a:j, n:j, v:j, t:j}
> for x in libs:
>        print "Enter a ", x, ": ",
>        words[j] = raw_input()
> print "The %s %s %s with a %s." % (a, n, v, t)
>
> What is the most efficient way to do something like this?

You're on the right track.
Using dictionaries with the % formatting operator is efficient.

Subclassing a dictionary with a question asker is an
approach that keeps the code simple and separates it
from the actual madlib strings.

So, here is version to get you started:


>>> farmtale = """
At %(name)s farms, we drive a %(machine)s over
the %(vegetable)s crops and feed %(food)s to our
%(animal)s."""

>>> class Madlib(dict):
    def __getitem__(self, key):
        return raw_input("Enter a %s:  " % key)


>>> print farmtale % Madlib()
Enter a name:  Donald
Enter a machine:  clock
Enter a vegetable:  squash
Enter a food:  pizza
Enter a animal:  snake

At Donald farms, we drive a clock over
the squash crops and feed pizza to our
snake.


Raymond Hettinger





From intentionally at blank.co.uk  Mon Jul 14 22:59:53 2003
From: intentionally at blank.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 03:59:53 +0100
Subject: anything like C++ references?
References: <berqqd$ad5$1@panix3.panix.com> <brs2hv8edfv0d1fch9mha8otuulajnkh0g@4ax.com> <bes0ps$l6$1@panix3.panix.com> <qi13hv4s21i8mtr2e600jumm54hqs7tppu@4ax.com> <mailman.1058125699.26133.python-list@python.org> <sag3hv4vf884ed7ouu5cv8ofnopp9j1t12@4ax.com> <f0f51c80.0307132003.264b6894@posting.google.com> <7dc4hvslh7a8fk9p6cvsfqa1c8d44rmmnv@4ax.com> <f0f51c80.0307140649.61cc1fe2@posting.google.com> <41e6hvcl2q5bdjqlp30t1gfq42j2tgo4u4@4ax.com> <SDJQa.63050$N7.7668@sccrnsc03>
Message-ID: <dsq6hv4vi1qhsksv56h8lqd7rlqh58ir05@4ax.com>

On Tue, 15 Jul 2003 02:26:58 GMT, "Bryan" <belred1 at yahoo.com> wrote:

>>
>> In maths, a variable binds to a value. In Python, a variable binds to
>> an object in a way that does no correctly implement binding to a value
>> unless the object happens to be immutable.
>>
>
>this sentence is completely FALSE because python does not have the concept
>of variables that bind to values.

The term 'variable' is defined by mathematics and computer science.
The fact that Python has arbitrarily redefined it is the cause of very
real confusion and errors.

>  therefore it's impossible for python to
>incorrectly implement binding variables to values like in math.  python does
>not have the concept of variables.  instead, as has been pointed out several
>times, python has what you can call "names" that bind to objects.

Bogus.

Read the Python tutorial. I think you'll find the first use of the
word 'variable' in the file node4.html ("Using the Python
Interpreter").

Actually, there are earlier uses but they allow plausible deniability
in the interpretation. This is the first time when the tutorial
specifically refers to a variable existing...

"""
When known to the interpreter, the script name and additional
arguments thereafter are passed to the script in the variable sys.argv
"""

>  two
>completeley different concepts.  i think a lot of this argument is based on
>this false premise that python has true "slot" variables and incorrect
>comparisons are being made.

No. The point requires a certain amount of pedanticism, but that
doesn't mean it isn't real or important.

In mathematics and computer theory, variables bind to values. In a
computer language, that binding can be implemented in various ways.
The Python way, however, does not respect the original definition. The
binding to objects has side-effects which do not respect the principle
of binding to values.




From gh at ghaering.de  Wed Jul  9 06:50:51 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 12:50:51 +0200
Subject: Why Python
In-Reply-To: <3f0be9ac@news.comindico.com.au>
References: <3f0be9ac@news.comindico.com.au>
Message-ID: <3F0BF38B.1070201@ghaering.de>

Tony Steward wrote:
> Hello All,
> I am looking for a programming language to use to write a database type
> application to run on windows machines. Is python for me or pls suggest what
> is.

Python is excellent for database work.

> Is there a page that explains in simple terms what Python can do on windows?

No single page, but with the win32 extensions, Python can access 
Windows-specific stuff like COM and the win32 API just fine.

> Is there an IDE?

There are, but if you're into thin GUI clients like VB6, there is no 
direct equivalent. It's a lot more common to create GUIs from code 
without form designers under Python.

> Is the windows api pre wrapped?

Sure. Part of the win32 extensions. 
http://starship.python.net/crew/mhammond/

Alternatively, you can use the Python distribution from ActiveState 
which contains win32all already, plus some additional goodies like a 
package management system and Python docs in Windows Help format.

-- Gerhard




From duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk  Wed Jul 16 10:59:44 2003
From: duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk (Duncan Booth)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 14:59:44 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: anything like C++ references?
References: <sag3hv4vf884ed7ouu5cv8ofnopp9j1t12@4ax.com> <f0f51c80.0307132003.264b6894@posting.google.com> <7dc4hvslh7a8fk9p6cvsfqa1c8d44rmmnv@4ax.com> <beuepu$bsm$1@panix3.panix.com> <sdd6hvsmsq32o62oknpqft6dc61lbup8rn@4ax.com> <20030714173855120-0600@news.xmission.com> <9mh6hv45v18apgn6lp7bo6mm63e5oba9rd@4ax.com> <f0f51c80.0307150921.7b6667e2@posting.google.com> <Xns93BA6253C731Fduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1> <20030716081550053-0600@news.xmission.com>
Message-ID: <Xns93BAA27CAD571duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

Adam Ruth <owski at hotmail.com> wrote in news:20030716081550053-
0600 at news.xmission.com:

>> Initialisation uses '=', assignment uses ':='. Note that the constant 
>> is  defined as a real and initialised with one, but the variable is a 
>> reference  to a real and initialised with a storage location. The last 
>> example is not  initialising x with the value, it is implicitly 
>> initialising x with a  location then assigning the value into that 
>> location.
>>
> 
> That's interesting.  What does it use for an equality operator?
> 
Tricky question that. It uses the equals symbol which might, or might not 
be spelled '=' or 'EQ'.

Sorry, my pedantry is trying to get the better of me. Algol68 defines its 
syntax in terms of the tokens that it accepts, it doesn't really force you 
to spell its tokens any particular way. The language definition uses bold 
face for symbols such as 'real', and the implementation might choose to 
recognise REAL, .real., 'real, or some special [real] symbol in your 
character set. Case stropping, which I think was commonest, uses upper 
case. The language is quite clear on this giving as an example that various 
typefaces of begin could be used to represent the begin symbol including a 
combination of hole on a punch card.

In particular, although the symbol used for equality testing in the 
language definition looks like =, the other operators look more like the 
appropriate mathematical symbols than, say, <=, and the implementation may 
decide how the symbols are to be represented. 

See http://www.fh-jena.de/~kleine/history/languages/Algol68-
RevisedReport.pdf

-- 
Duncan Booth                                             duncan at rcp.co.uk
int month(char *p){return(124864/((p[0]+p[1]-p[2]&0x1f)+1)%12)["\5\x8\3"
"\6\7\xb\1\x9\xa\2\0\4"];} // Who said my code was obscure?



From jocsch at phreaker.net  Sun Jul  6 16:13:39 2003
From: jocsch at phreaker.net (Markus Joschko)
Date: Sun, 06 Jul 2003 22:13:39 +0200
Subject: Search for mapping solution
References: <be9t66$2otne$1@ID-47851.news.dfncis.de> <be9tnh$59n$03$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <bea0fe$2otcq$1@ID-47851.news.dfncis.de>

> 
> lines = [['fred','333','0.10'],['sam','444','1'],['fred','333','0.50']]
> costs = {}
> for name,number,price in lines:
>     costs[name] = costs.setdefault(name,0)+float(price)
> print costs
> 
thanks it works. But maybe I can complicate the example a little bit
(because in real world it's more complicated):

What if I every list in lines has 20 or more entries and I have only the
index number to access the name, e.g.

lines = [['elem1','elem2','fred','elem3',.......;'elem
17','333','elem18','0.10'],[...],[...]]


what I want to say: I can't be sure that the name is always on the third
position. That's dynamic. I know it before I parse the list, but 
I can't say 

for elem1,elem2,name,.... cause it can also be

for elem1,name,elem3 ....


Thanks for the answer,
        Markus



From kbass1 at nc.rr.com  Sun Jul  6 20:08:08 2003
From: kbass1 at nc.rr.com (Kevin Bass)
Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2003 20:08:08 -0400
Subject: Newbie Question: Abstract Class in Python
References: <00ec01c34050$49ab4bb0$6401a8c0@boxen>
Message-ID: <007001c3441b$d8eb7060$2a523942@homebass1>

Hello:

I am new to Python and want to know how to implement an abstract class? I
have read through different books and I have no found this information.
Thanks!

Kevin





From hst at empolis.co.uk  Tue Jul 22 05:49:41 2003
From: hst at empolis.co.uk (Harvey Thomas)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 10:49:41 +0100
Subject: Python Mystery Theatre -- Episode 3:  Extend this
Message-ID: <8FC4E7C302A6A64AAD5DB1FA0E825DEB04F4DD@hendrix.empolisuk.com>

Raymond Hettinger wrote:
> 
> Here are few more mini-mysteries for your amusement
> and edification.
> 
> Again in this episode, the program output is not shown.
> Your goal is to predict the output and, if anything
> mysterious occurs, then explain what happened
> (in blindingly obvious terms).
> 
> This time, the extra credit is for picking-out the three
> that surfaced as errors in my own, real code over
> the past few years (the example context below may be
> different, but the type of error occurred in real code).
> 
> Try to solve these without looking at the other posts.
> Let me know if you learned something new along the way.
> 
> 
> Enjoy,
> 
> 
> Raymond Hettinger
> 
> 
> ACT I ---------------------
> def real(z):
>     return hasattr(z, 'real') and z.real or z
> def imag(z):
>     return hasattr(z, 'imag') and z.imag or 0
> for z in 3+4j, 5, 0+6j, 7.0, 8+0j, 9L:
>     print real(z), imag(z)
>
I guess this was a real error.
print real(z), imag(z)  will give
6j, 6
as z.real is 0, therefore the result of the first expression is z which is 6j
 
> ACT II ---------------------
> uniq = {}
> for k in (10, 'ten', 10+0j, u'ten', 'Ten', 't'+'en', 10.0):
>     uniq(k) = 1
> print len(uniq)
> 
Assuming it should read uniq[k] = 1, the answer is three as there are only three unique keys - 10, 'Ten' and 'ten'
 
> ACT III ---------------------
> s = 'abracadabra'
> for i in [3, 2, 1, 0]:
>         print s[i:], s[-i:]
> 
as -0 is the same as 0, I presume the trap is that s[-i:] when s == 0 gives 'abracadabra', whereas the three preceding values are 'bra', 'ra' and 'a'

> ACT IV ---------------------
> pets = list('cat ')
> pets += 'dog '
> pets.extend('fish ')
> print pets + 'python'
>
I guess this was a real error as I've done it myself. 
pets is a list of characters, initially ['c', 'a', 't'], which is then extended by += 'dog ' and .extend('fish')
The print statement is trying to concatenate a string to a list, which isn't allowed. I suppose this is why some people don't like augmented assignment as the results are sometimes unexpected.

> INTERMISSION (with output included, oh yeah! ------------
> >>> import operator
> >>> 1 - reduce(operator.add, [1e-7]* 10**7)
> 2.4983004554002264e-010

Is this just the rounding error on a particular machine in evaluating 1e-7* 10**7?
> 
> ACT V ---------------------
> class Bin:
>     numitems = 0
>     contents = []
> 
>     def add(self, item):
>         self.numitems += 1
>         self.contents += [item]
> 
> laundry = Bin()
> groceries = Bin()
> 
> laundry.add('shirt')
> groceries.add('bananas')
> groceries.add('nuts')
> laundry.add('socks')
> groceries.add('pretzels')
> 
> print laundry.numitems, laundry.contents
> print groceries.numitems, groceries.contents

I guess this was a real error due to the unintended use of class variables. the two print statements yield identical results with 5 items in each.
> 
> 
> ACT VI -----------------------------------------
> print "What is the technical name for this algorithm or 
> transformation?"
> a = range(0, 100, 10)
> import random
> random.shuffle(a)
> print "Input:", a
> swaps = 0
> for i in range(len(a)):
>     for j in range(i+1, len(a)):
>     if a[i] > a[j]:
>         i, j, a[i], a[j], swaps = j, i, a[j], a[i], swaps+1
> print "Output:", a
> print "Workload;", swaps
> 
>
 
It's a quick and dirty bubble sort. Not sure what's wrong without running the code, but it looks wrong to mess around with the loop indices. Perhaps the swapping line should read
a[i], a[j], swaps = a[j], a[i], swaps+1. BTW isn't there an indentation error in the code?
> 

Interesting set of puzzles.

_____________________________________________________________________
This message has been checked for all known viruses by the MessageLabs Virus Scanning Service.




From jude-venn at blueyonder.co.uk  Mon Jul 21 08:42:33 2003
From: jude-venn at blueyonder.co.uk (Jude Venn)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 12:42:33 +0000
Subject: pythonic malloc
References: <OaOSa.6965$OM3.854@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
Message-ID: <20030721124233.18f56047.jude-venn@blueyonder.co.uk>

how about something like:

retpacket = "\xf0\x00\x02\x00"+socket.gethostname()
retpacket += chr(0) * (25 - len(retpacket))



On Mon, 21 Jul 2003 09:15:26 GMT
kjockey <kj at ockey.fake.> wrote:

> I have some simple UDP code that does:
> s.sendto("\xf0\x00\x02\x00rachel\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00",addr)
> 
> This is OK, except that I'd like to change the text in the middle ("rachel",
> which is the hostname FWIW), and the NUL padding needs to go out to make
> the length 25 bytes (so the padding depends on the length of the name).
> 
> So I could do something like:
> retpacket = "\xf0\x00\x02\x00"+socket.gethostname()
> while len(retpacket) < 26:
>      retpacket += "\x00"
> s.sendto(retpacket, addr)
> 
> But that feels "wrong". And Python in a Nutshell says its a bad idea  -
> "anti-idiom".
> 
> Can anyone show me the true path?
> 
> Brad





From jjl at pobox.com  Tue Jul  1 13:17:06 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 01 Jul 2003 18:17:06 +0100
Subject: Question regarding naming convention
References: <1056988215.49928.0@iris.uk.clara.net> <m1_La.1613$eF3.213194@news20.bellglobal.com> <1057062415.13616.0@doris.uk.clara.net>
Message-ID: <87adby88vh.fsf@pobox.com>

michael <spam.trap at btinternet.com> writes:
[...]
> Yeah, thanks for the quote. Unfortunately, this still leaves me with
> syntax that's a bit unfriendly. Taking the StringIO class as an
> example, I can either write:
> 
>      import StringIO
>      s = StringIO.StringIO()
> 
> or:
> 
>      from StringIO import StringIO
>      s = StringIO()
> 
> Both of the above seem to overcomplicate the syntax. Of the two, I

Well, one is simpler when you only use StringIO.StringIO once or
twice, and the other is simpler when you use it lots of times.
Really, there are two issues, I suppose.  First, the second form has
the convenience of shorter names.  Second, the first form is useful
where somebody reading your code would otherwise have to keep
referring to your imports to see where names came from, or might be
confused by similarly-named classes in different modules.  Third, ease
of switching names -- sometimes it's convenient to be able to swap

from StringIO import StringIO

to

from cStringIO import StringIO

And have your code work unchanged.  OK, three issues.

A fourth issue is that it's nice not to mix the two styles, to avoid
confusing readers.


> prefer the second, but I'm sure I've read on c.l.py that the
> from..import.. version is not a preferred way of doing things.

Nothing un-preferred about 'from foo import bar'.  What is discouraged
is 'from foo import *' (that's a literal *, if you haven't seen that
syntax before -- see the tutorial).  It is useful sometimes, though.
In PyQt, for example.


> Is there no way to write a class, such that the statement:
> 
>      import MyClass
> 
> would dynamically import the MyClass class from MyClass.py ?

Well, maybe (I'm vaguely aware that there's an import hook of some
kind).  *Nobody* would thank you for it, other than as a joke.


> It just surprises me that there isn't a neater way around this, as
> Python seems to encapsulate most everything else in a simple way.

Modules are useful, and explicit is better than implicit.


John



From guettler at thomas-guettler.de  Tue Jul  1 09:38:43 2003
From: guettler at thomas-guettler.de (Thomas =?ISO-8859-15?Q?G=FCttler?=)
Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 15:38:43 +0200
Subject: Unicode problem.... as always
References: <631aeedc.0307010420.685500e9@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bds2t3$10ft1i$1@ID-63505.news.dfncis.de>

Todd Jenista wrote:

> I have a parser I am building with python and, unfortunately, people
> have decided to put unicode characters in the files I am parsing.

Maybe this helps you. It converts a latin1 byte to unicode
and then converts it to utf8.
>>> s="?"
>>> s_u=unicode(s, "latin1")
>>> s_utf8=s_u.encode("utf8")

You need to know the encoding of the input (utf8, utf16) .

 thomas




From gmuller at worldonline.nl  Mon Jul 28 14:40:46 2003
From: gmuller at worldonline.nl (GerritM)
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 20:40:46 +0200
Subject: default import path
References: <3f24c37e@news.maxnet.co.nz>
Message-ID: <bg3qn2$ev7$1@reader1.tiscali.nl>

"Peter" <nospamjynyl at yahoo.co.nz> schreef in bericht
news:3f24c37e at news.maxnet.co.nz...
>
> <newbie question>
> How can I edit the default import path for Python under Windows?
>
> I want to use the piddle module.  So far, I've copied the unzipped
contents
> of the zip file to c:\prog~1\python\lib\site-packages, but how do I set it
> so this is automatically on the python path?
>
> (I don't want to have to manually add that directory every time.)
>
> TIA
>
> Peter
>
create a piddle.pth file in the main Python directory (c:\prog~1\python in
your case?), with the pathname of piddle as line of text in the file:
c:\prog~1\python\lib\site-packages\piddle
(check the last part, this is the directory on my machine)

kind regards, Gerrit
--
www.extra.research.philips.com/natlab/sysarch/






From shane at zope.com  Fri Jul 25 20:41:47 2003
From: shane at zope.com (Shane Hathaway)
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 20:41:47 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Static typing
In-Reply-To: <60FB8BB7F0EFC7409B75EEEC13E2019202CE473B@admin56.narex.com>
References: <60FB8BB7F0EFC7409B75EEEC13E2019202CE473B@admin56.narex.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.50.0307252014170.25632-100000@shane.zope.com>

On Fri, 25 Jul 2003, Bjorn Pettersen wrote:

> However, the only way said programmer can do that is by looking at
> _your_ code, and then changing _your_ code. Wouldn't:
> 
>   def foo(bar, baz):
>       """...
>          Expects:
>             bar: integer in the range (0..65535)
>             baz: string (used as binary data)
>          ...
>       """
> 
> be much more useful for said programmer? Afterall, we're all adults
> here.

It depends on the context and intent.  Type checking is useful in several 
ways, even in Python:

- When you're evolving new code, function signatures change often, and you
can use type checks as a safety belt.  You can save time this way if you
apply it in moderation.  (The problem with statically typed languages is
that they usually mandate this technique to the point that it becomes a
large burden.)

- If you're writing secure code, you can't trust the inputs.  Of course,
in this case you need stronger checks than assert statements.

- If you're translating Python to a lower level language, you can use type 
checks as reliable hints for the translator.

- When you're working with a large codebase, many developers, and many
parts changing simultaneously, type checks can enhance your functional and
system testing strategies.

There have been several articles and interviews lately saying that type
checking is a distraction and that testing is the right way to go.  I
agree that unit tests should come first, but type checks remain a useful
tool that increases productivity when used in moderation.

Shane




From abbeflabbe at InospamIhotmail.com  Sat Jul 12 04:41:27 2003
From: abbeflabbe at InospamIhotmail.com (Linkages)
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 08:41:27 GMT
Subject: FTP search
Message-ID: <pan.2003.07.12.03.35.20.476978@InospamIhotmail.com>

im new with python..
im trying to do a script to find a file
in a FTP ...the script is supposed to work with
a recursive function that search in the FS
entering in each DIR until the file is found...

more or less something similar...

Function read_directory( directory_start )
{


   list allfilespresentintheDIR
   if (fileX) is present END

else

  for each DIR in [directory_start] 
{

      read_directory( newdirectory_start ); // ricorsion

}
  Next;
}



i dont know how to translate 

for each DIR in (directory_start)

using ftplib i know how to list files ...
to list dirs... but i dont know how to point
at each dir...


suggetions ?

 
bye linkages






From mcfletch at rogers.com  Sun Jul 20 10:55:35 2003
From: mcfletch at rogers.com (Mike C. Fletcher)
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 10:55:35 -0400
Subject: properties + types, implementing meta-class desciptors elegantly?
In-Reply-To: <bfe637$6rk$1@panix2.panix.com>
References: <mailman.1058532630.7342.python-list@python.org> <mailman.1058629890.30475.python-list@python.org> <bfc82v$hm8$0@216.39.172.122> <mailman.1058654317.6488.python-list@python.org> <bfe637$6rk$1@panix2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <3F1AAD67.8010005@rogers.com>

Aahz wrote:

>In article <mailman.1058654317.6488.python-list at python.org>,
>Mike C. Fletcher <mcfletch at rogers.com> wrote:
>  
>
>>   * finally, stores the value
>>         o tries to do what would have been done if there were no
>>           descriptor (with the new, coerced value)
>>         o does *not* create new names in the object's namespace (all
>>           names are documented w/ descriptors, there's not a lot of
>>           '_' prefixed names cluttering the namespace)
>>         o does *not* require a new dictionary/storage-object attribute
>>           for the object (the descriptor works like any other
>>           descriptor, a *stand-alone* object that replaces a regular
>>           attribute)
>>    
>>
>
>But this is a recipe for name clashes.  If you follow the first bullet,
>it's a normal attribute, but everything else says you want a property.
>Properties are themselves objects that are attached to names in an
>object.  You can't have the same name bound to two different objects.
>  
>
It's true that:

    * your class has a namespace, and there are objects stored in that
      namespace
          o the objects stored in that namespace often are descriptors
          o they are available to the instances which do not shadow them
            (as I said, I can deal with this, and it's cleaner anyway).
                + if they are descriptors, they modify instance access
                  to attributes
    * you can't have a property object in the class namespace if you're
      storing the meta-class property-value there
          o *unless* the value is the property (perfectly reasonable
            value to store for the meta-class property)
    * the metaclass properties are stored in the metaclass' dictionary,
      so they don't conflict with metaclass instances' values for the
      properties
    * the metaclass instance's property *values* would be stored in the
      metaclass instance's dictionary, just as is normally done (the
      metaclass' property *descriptors* would be stored in the
      metaclass' dictionary), there's no new conflicts created here,
      everything just works like it does now, a lookup would look
      something like this:

 >>> x.y
x doesn't have a __getattribute__, so see if it has a descriptor for 'y'

    get type(x).y

        type(x) doesn't have a __getattribute__, so see if it has a
        descriptor for 'y'

            get type(type(x)).y -> this is just a simple descriptor, as
            there's no higher-level descriptor, has a __get__ method,
            calls it to retrieve type(x).y

        returns the currently stored entry 'y' in type(x)'s dictionary,
        which happens to be a descriptor

    has type(x).y, a descriptor with a __get__ method, calls it, gets
    back value stored in instance's dictionary

returns the value of y stored in the instance dictionary

You wind up with some names that are not available for use *as 
properties* on instances *iff* you set a simple value for the properties 
of the meta-class instance, but you solve that the regular way, by 
making the value stored by the meta-class instance's property a 
descriptor, rather than a simple value.  That's just the way classes 
work.  Yes, it's a "name clash", but everything in classes/instances is 
name clashes <shrug>.

Not a problem I can see in the problem I outlined just yet, there's 
still no low-level value-setting mechanism exposed,
Mike

_______________________________________
  Mike C. Fletcher
  Designer, VR Plumber, Coder
  http://members.rogers.com/mcfletch/







From bdesth.nospam at removeme.free.fr  Thu Jul 10 19:15:34 2003
From: bdesth.nospam at removeme.free.fr (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 23:15:34 +0000
Subject: Parsing
References: <e5fb8973.0307100938.13fcea56@posting.google.com> <Xns93B4D6DA3EADEk23vzqpmre@194.106.32.13>
Message-ID: <3F0DF396.6030409@removeme.free.fr>

Simon Bayling wrote:
> whatsupg21 at hotmail.com (Michael) wrote in 
> news:e5fb8973.0307100938.13fcea56 at posting.google.com:
> 
>>I have been assigned a project to parse a webpage for data using
>>Python. I have finished only basic tutorials. Any suggestions as to
>>where I should go from here? Thanks in advance.
>>
> 
(snip)
> 
> If the data to find is more complicated, or you need to parse the HTML as 
> well, you should look at more string methods, maybe regular expressions 
> (import re)...

Or the HTML or SGML parsers that are part of the standard library...

Bruno




From buzzard at urubu.freeserve.co.uk  Mon Jul 28 09:38:21 2003
From: buzzard at urubu.freeserve.co.uk (Duncan Smith)
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 14:38:21 +0100
Subject: urn scheme
Message-ID: <bg38sa$e6r$1@news7.svr.pol.co.uk>

Hello,
         I'm currently doing some simulations where I need to sample without
replacement from a list of counts.  (Actually it's a Numeric array, but I'm
currently converting the array to a list, using the following function and
converting back to an array.)  I *desperately *need to speed this up
(simulations currently take over 24 hours).  This sampling is a real
bottleneck, and accounts for about 90% of the time cost.  If I can get a
10-fold speed up I might be in business, and a 100-fold speed up might even
allow me to meet a deadline.  Using psyco appears to give me no speed up
whatsoever (that can't be right, can it?).  I am currently working on
reducing the number of function calls to urn(), but the biggest speed up
will still come from improving the performance of this function.  Any ideas
for a significant speed up?  TIA.

Duncan

-----------------------------------------------------------
import random

def urn(bins, draws, drawn=0, others=0):

    """Bins is a sequence containing the numbers
    of balls in the urns.  'drawn' and 'others'
    define how the contents of the bins should
    be updated after each draw in draws.  The
    default arguments correspond to sampling
    with replacement.  e.g. drawn = -1 corresponds
    to sampling without replacement"""


    len_bins = len(bins)
    res = [0] * len_bins
    cum_bins = [bins[0]] + [0] * (len_bins-1)
    for i in range(1, len_bins):
        cum_bins[i] = cum_bins[i-1] + bins[i]
    for i in range(draws):
        balls = random.random() * cum_bins[-1]
        adj = 0
        for j in range(len_bins):
            if adj == 0 and cum_bins[j] > balls:
                res[j] += 1
                cum_bins[j] += drawn
                adj = 1
            else:
                cum_bins[j] += (j - adj) * others + adj * drawn

    return res
----------------------------------------------------------------

e.g.
>>> urn((0,2,5,3,4), 10, -1)
[0, 1, 4, 1, 4]
>>>





From missive at frontiernet.net  Sun Jul 20 18:56:03 2003
From: missive at frontiernet.net (Lee Harr)
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 22:56:03 GMT
Subject: Newbie! I'm a newbie! What's wrong with this program?
References: <5da8e4b3.0307191800.48dc0a6d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <slrnbhm7j4.97u.missive@localhost.my.domain>

> import math ##loads the math modual
> ########Start created Functions#########
> ##Function for converting minutes to hours##
> def minHour(x):
>   min = 60
>   hour = min * x
>   print hour
> ##Function creates a new line##
> def newLine():
>   print
> #######End created Functions########
> ###Start Variables####
> x_hours = 5
> ###End Variables####
> newLine();
> print "There are", minHour(x_hours), "minutes in", x_hours, "hours"; 
> newLine();
> print "Program Terminated.";
> newLine();


# mi.py
import math
import sys

def minutes_per_hour(hours):
    MIN_PER_HOUR = 60
    return hours * MIN_PER_HOUR

def print_minutes(hours):
    minutes = minutes_per_hour(hours)
    print "There are %s minutes in %s hours" % (minutes, hours)
    print

if __name__ == '__main__':
    hours = float(sys.argv[1])
    print_minutes(hours)
#


>python mi.py 5.2
There are 312.0 minutes in 5.2 hours

>python mi.py 5
There are 300.0 minutes in 5.0 hours

>python mi.py 5.25
There are 315.0 minutes in 5.25 hours





From sholden at holdenweb.com  Tue Jul  1 23:49:39 2003
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 03:49:39 GMT
Subject: Python-2.3b1 bugs on Windows2000 with: the new csv module, string replace, and the re module
References: <hc6el19am1o.fsf@mhbs.lsil.com>
Message-ID: <nDsMa.363603$3n5.285107@news2.central.cox.net>

"Daniel Ortmann" <dortmann at lsil.com> wrote in message
news:hc6el19am1o.fsf at mhbs.lsil.com...
> These problems only happen on Windows.  On Linux everything works fine.
> Has anyone else run into these bugs?  Any suggestions?
>
> Where do I find out the proper bug reporting process?
>

http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?atid=105470&group_id=5470&func=browse

regards
--
Steve Holden                                  http://www.holdenweb.com/
Python Web Programming                 http://pydish.holdenweb.com/pwp/






From clifford.wells at comcast.net  Sun Jul 13 01:48:00 2003
From: clifford.wells at comcast.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: 12 Jul 2003 22:48:00 -0700
Subject: new in town
In-Reply-To: <pan.2003.07.13.03.27.44.711790@127.0.0.1>
References: <AeVPa.445271$Vi5.11496890@news1.calgary.shaw.ca>
	 <2a897f11.0307121139.21470fbb@posting.google.com>
	 <EM_Pa.420940$ro6.10135135@news2.calgary.shaw.ca>
	 <pan.2003.07.13.03.22.29.943248@127.0.0.1>
	 <pan.2003.07.13.03.27.44.711790@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <1058075280.2220.67.camel@devilbox.homelinux.net>

On Sat, 2003-07-12 at 20:27, David McNab wrote:
> One more thing Elaine - I may offend others on this list in saying this,
> but if you're doing GUI applications, I strongly suggest that you dive in
> and familiarise yourself with Tkinter. It could well be the only GUI you
> ever need in Python.
> 
> Don't be intimidated if the Tkinter docs you come across urge you to
> approach it from a Tk viewpoint- there's an excellent guide at:
> http://www.astro.washington.edu/owen/TkinterSummary.html
> 
> I argue for Tkinter over another popular Python-accessible GUI, wxWindows,
> because Tkinter is smaller, faster and far less buggy, and has a really
> nice 'feel' within the Python environment.

Everyone is welcome to prefer whatever toolkit they like.  However,
please don't use false reasons to justify your preference.  Smaller? 
Probably.  Faster?  I suspect the reverse is true, but I'd love to see
your benchmarking methodology.  Less buggy?  Very arguable, but I'd be
willing to concede that point if you concede that the reason for that
state is because wxWindows more actively developed than Tk <wink>.

Some *valid* reasons for choosing Tkinter over wxPython would be:

1. de facto standard for Python (and several other languages)
2. More widely ported
3. Somewhat simpler to learn

Reasons to choose wxPython over Tkinter:
1. More diverse widget set (hence the size difference)
2. More flexible framework (hence the higher learning curve)


Regards,
Cliff

-- 
Now as the petals are no more, a corroded shrinking stalk remains
                                                        -Bauhaus





From mwilson at the-wire.com  Sun Jul 20 13:07:50 2003
From: mwilson at the-wire.com (Mel Wilson)
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 13:07:50 -0400
Subject: object as a reserved keyword
References: <vtnkhvoqcet2bgmeidae1st46m7q9sr1p3@4ax.com>
 <bfe673$9mq$1@panix2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <mxsG/ks/Kjoe089yn@the-wire.com>

In article <bfe673$9mq$1 at panix2.panix.com>, aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) wrote:
>In article <vtnkhvoqcet2bgmeidae1st46m7q9sr1p3 at 4ax.com>,
>Lawrence Oluyede  <raims at dot.com> wrote:
>>
>>Does it worth to make "object" keyword a reserved one?
>
>Maybe.  Python strives for a minimal syntax.  Many identifiers that
>would be keywords in other languages are simply names in the builtin
>namespace.

   Plus it's not impossible that somebody could export a
name in the set of standard names from a module or a
class and accomplish something useful.  I'm having trouble
finding a convincing example, but consider

        class Debate:
...
            def agree (self, *args):
                pass    # or some real code

            def object (self, *args):
                pass    # usw.


        Regards.        Mel.



From akineko at pacbell.net  Tue Jul  8 16:57:32 2003
From: akineko at pacbell.net (Aki Niimura)
Date: 8 Jul 2003 13:57:32 -0700
Subject: Accessing Web site contents from a Python script (with use of Cookie)
References: <b714b8de.0307072050.417d5321@posting.google.com> <mailman.1057647920.32373.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <b714b8de.0307081257.1e3bacfe@posting.google.com>

Ian Bicking <ianb at colorstudy.com> wrote in message 
> On Mon, 2003-07-07 at 23:50, Aki Niimura wrote:
> > I'm currently having a problem completing my script because the contents 
> > I would like to access in the Web site is a dynamic content and it is 
> > generated based on the Cookie contents which are set in another page.
> 
> You should use ClientCookie:
>   http://wwwsearch.sourceforge.net/ClientCookie/

Thank you for getting me know such interesting Python module is available.

I made my script working using HTTPResponse.getheader('Set-Cookie') and
HTTPResponse.putheader('Cookie', cookie). Using ClientCookie would make 
such process hidden. I should use it next time.

Thanks!
Aki Niimura



From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Sun Jul 13 11:24:21 2003
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 11:24:21 -0400
Subject: Windows XP - Environment variable - Unicode
References: <3f0e77fc@epflnews.epfl.ch> <vgvtb26kob5035@news.supernews.com> <3F10795B.9000501@v.loewis.de> <vh27ooiajenv87@news.supernews.com> <mailman.1058088861.14670.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <vh2ue7ki4s6ja7@news.supernews.com>

"Fredrik Lundh" <fredrik at pythonware.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.1058088861.14670.python-list at python.org...
> John Roth wrote:
>
> > > Read the source, Luke.
> >
> > I haven't gotten into the Python source, and my name
> > is not Luke.
>
> And life's to short to waste on movies...

Depends on what your goals in life are.

> > On reading this over, it does sound a bit more strident than my
> > responses usually do, but I will admit to being irritated at the
> > assumption that you need to read the source to find out the
> > answer to various questions.
>
> Well, you obviously didn't bother to read the documentation for
> os.environ, so pointing you to the source sounds like a reasonable
> idea.

Not particularly. I might be one of that not inconsiderable number
of people that doesn't know C. I'm not, but the number of people
who use Python and who don't know C is not zero.

I like Python because, for the most part, it's much more
understandable than many languages I know, and that
makes it much more productive. What I've learned in this
conversation is that os.environ fails to handle one of the
major corner cases in a Windows NT/2000/XP environment.
So if I need that corner case, I'm going to have to use
the Windows API call. Not a big deal, but also not something
that I regard as one of the language's strengths.

John Roth

> </F>





From selwyn at home.net.nz  Sun Jul 13 07:41:51 2003
From: selwyn at home.net.nz (selwyn)
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 23:41:51 +1200
Subject: timeout on os.popen3?
Message-ID: <uzbQa.4655$9f7.529830@news02.tsnz.net>

hi all,

I would like some advice on how I can include a timeout for a scanning 
operation using unzip on linux and os.popen3.

I am scanning through about 30g of rescued zip files, looking for xml 
extensions within those files.  What I have put together 'works', but 
only for what appears to be properly reconstructed files. 
Unfortunately, some aren't AND for some reason no standard error 
messages are being triggered. This causes my script to hang indefinitely.

What I would like is for the script to move on to the next file, after 
say a 10sec period of inactivity, but am unsure how this could be 
included. I have googled around and think the select module may be 
helpful, but after reading the docs I am still confused :-(

Here is what I have so far:

#!/usr/bin/python
import os,sys, time, string

filesscanned=0
possibles=0
nonzips=0
files=[]
a = os.listdir(sys.argv[1])

for i in a:
     print i
     stdin, stdout, stderr = os.popen3('unzip -l %s%s' % (sys.argv[1], i))
     if stderr.read()=='':
         zippedfiles = string.lower(stdout.read())
         if zippedfiles.find('xml')!= -1:
             os.system("""cp '%s%s' candidates"""% (sys.argv[1], i))
             possibles +=1
             print 'found a candidate:- %s%s'% (sys.argv[1],i)
             files.append(i)
     else:
         os.system("""cp '%s%s' nonzips"""% (sys.argv[1], i))
         nonzips +=1
         print 'found nonzip or broken file:- %s' %i

     filesscanned +=1

Any help gratefully received.
cheers,
Selwyn.




From dave at nullcube.com  Wed Jul 30 01:11:58 2003
From: dave at nullcube.com (Dave Harrison)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 15:11:58 +1000
Subject: -shared option in distutils
Message-ID: <20030730051157.GA28595@dave@alana.ucc.usyd.edu.au>

afternoon pythonic gurus,

quick question about distutils.

Im compiling on solaris 9 and am having problems with the linking (I loathe solaris these days ;-),
and if I call gcc by hand and remove the -shared flag and replace it with -G it works.

But I just cant find where I need to change this in the distutils package for my install of python2.1.1.

Where can I find it ?

cheers
Dave




From exarkun at twistedmatrix.com  Fri Jul 11 19:13:05 2003
From: exarkun at twistedmatrix.com (Jp Calderone)
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 19:13:05 -0400
Subject: socket problem
In-Reply-To: <24472.1057964727@www25.gmx.net>
References: <24472.1057964727@www25.gmx.net>
Message-ID: <20030711230938.GA22310@intarweb.us>

On Sat, Jul 12, 2003 at 01:05:27AM +0200, Gordon Wetzstein wrote:
> Hello everyone,
> 
> I have a problem with python sockets. I broadcast a lot of pickled objects
> with socket. sendto(...), that works. Ireceive them on the other site with
> socket.recvfrom(16384) The pickled objects are smaller (like 10000 bytes)
> than the max bytes.
> 
> The problem appears if I send too many pickled objects very quickly one
> after another, then I only receive a part of the sent objects. I print
> them before I send them, they are there but they never reach the
> destination. When I do a time.sleep(0.1) (but not lesser than 0.1) after
> socket.send() all is good but it's too slow!
> 
> Does anyone know what the problem is? And maybe a solution!
> 

  UDP is an inherently unreliable protocol.  If you require reliable data
transmission, consider using TCP.

  Jp

-- 
http://catandgirl.com/view.cgi?44




From detlev at die-offenbachs.de  Sat Jul  5 05:16:47 2003
From: detlev at die-offenbachs.de (Detlev Offenbach)
Date: Sat, 05 Jul 2003 11:16:47 +0200
Subject: ANN: Eric 3.2 released
Message-ID: <jkhit-ub4.ln1@stargate.solsys.priv>

Hi Trolls,

I am pround to announce, that eric3 3.2 has been released today. It is 
available via

http://www.die-offenbachs.de/detlev/eric3.html

This version includes a Subversion interface, possibility to simply run a 
script/project, to profile it and to determine code coverage statistics. 
The editor supports autocompletion and calltips and a whole bunch of 
additional lexers. For details see the history file in the distribution.

What is it?
-----------
Eric 3.2 (or short eric3) is a Python IDE written using PyQt and 
QScintilla. It has integrated project management capabilities, it gives 
you an unlimited number of editors, an integrated Python shell, an 
integrated debugger and much more.

Please see for yourself by visiting the a.m. page (it contains a picture 
of Eric our mascot as well).

Please report bugs, feature wishes or code contributions to 
eric-bugs at die-offenbachs.de

Help wanted!!
-------------
I really need some support in the area of more translations and user 
documentation. Any volunteers out there? Just let me know.

Regards,
Detlev
-- 
Detlev Offenbach
detlev at die-offenbachs.de



From LogiplexSoftware at earthlink.net  Thu Jul  3 18:00:50 2003
From: LogiplexSoftware at earthlink.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: 03 Jul 2003 15:00:50 -0700
Subject: function overloading
In-Reply-To: <be0io2$4qi$1@oravannahka.helsinki.fi>
References: <bao3bm$2fh$1@news.tu-darmstadt.de>
	 <be0io2$4qi$1@oravannahka.helsinki.fi>
Message-ID: <1057269649.16862.24.camel@software1.logiplex.internal>

On Wed, 2003-07-02 at 23:33, Jere Kahanpaa wrote:
> Hi.
> 
> Mirko Koenig <koenig at v-i-t.de> wrote:
> > I serached around the web and some tutorials but i can't finds any
> > documentation about function overloading in python.
> 
> > I want to have 3 functions:
> > def setPos( x, y ):
> > def setPos( pos ):
> > def setPos( object ):
> > ( pos and object are classes i wrote )
> 
> The normal Pythonic way is probably as follows:
> 
> def setPos(position):
>    """
>    Set Position. 
> 
>    The 'position' argument should be one of
>       * a tuple of coordinates (x,y)
>       * a instance of class Pos
>       * a instance of class Object
>    """
> 
>    if type(positions) is types.TupleType or type(positions) is types.ListType: 
>        x,y = positions
>        ...   
>    else if: 
>       ... identify object type and process


Or you could implement something like this, if think you "need"
overloading so badly that the horrific overhead added to each function
call is tolerable:

class overload(object):
    def __init__(self, *args):
        self._funcs = {}
        for f, p in args:
            self._funcs[tuple([type(a) for a in p])] = f

    def __call__(self, *args):
        f = self._funcs[tuple([type(a) for a in args])]
        return f(*args)



def f_noargs():
    print "noargs"

def f_int(a, b):
    print "ints", a, b

def f_str(a, b):
    print "str", a, b

def f_strint(a, b):
    print "strint", a, b

f = overload(
    [ f_noargs, () ],
    [ f_int, (int(), int()) ],
    [ f_str, (str(), str()) ],
    [ f_strint, (str(), int()) ]
    )
    

f()
f(1, 2)
f('a', 'b')
f('c', 3)

    
> It's hard to think outside the box when you ARE the box.

Or if the box is full of Chicken McNuggets.  Mmmm.

-- 
Cliff Wells, Software Engineer
Logiplex Corporation (www.logiplex.net)
(503) 978-6726  (800) 735-0555





From kirk at eyegor.jobsluder.net  Wed Jul  2 02:48:23 2003
From: kirk at eyegor.jobsluder.net (Kirk Job-Sluder)
Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 06:48:23 GMT
Subject: Good code patterns in Python
References: <cb035744.0307010149.399df2eb@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <XevMa.4146$Vx2.2206981@newssvr28.news.prodigy.com>

Will Stuyvesant <hwlgw at hotmail.com> wrote:
> If you know that your source code is going to be used
> later by others, then I feel that code with the pattern:
> 
>    if some_condition:
>        some_name = some_value
>    else:
>        some_name = other_value
> 
> is often a mistake.  Much better, safer, would be:
> 
>    some_name = some_value
>    if not some_condition:
>        some_name = other_value
> 
> Why?  

My personal opinion is that it depends on context.  The first idiom
is more clear when you are dealing with some kind of a switch.  The 
second idiom works better if you have a default value that needs to be 
overridden in some cases.

> Because those people reusing your code might decide to
> change or adapt the "if" part of the first example.  Or
> the "else" part for that matter.  And then they could end
> up with "some_name" being undefined, crashing other code
> maybe 1000's of lines away.  This could happen for example
> because they use exceptions in the "if" part that jump out
> of it, etc.

Of course, another alternative is to combine both approaches by setting
a default value:

#set default for some_value
some_value = []
if condition1:
    some_value = function1()
else:
    some_value = function2()

And then if you really want to be safe the functions using
some_value should do reality checks as well.
def function3(some_value=[]):
    if len(some_value):
        do something
    else:
        do something else.

I think that an argument for the readability of if-else is that because
the logic is made more clear, it can be more effectively replaced.


> There is the small overhead of assigning something twice
> to some_name in the safer example, so if performance is
> *that* important then the first example is better, but I
> feel there should be comments with warnings around it:
> **CREATING A NEW OBJECT REFERENCE HERE!** Hmm, now that
> makes code ugly :-)

The problem here is that ***creating a new object reference*** is not
only ugly, but its ambiguous as well.  (What kind of object, what is it 
used for?) If indeed some_name is an important variable in your program,
then provide a full description.

#some_value (string) is used to hold the widgit that will 
#be passed to a wadget and eventually passed
#to standard output.  

-- 
Kirk Job-Sluder
http://www.jobsluder.net/~kirk/




From rimbalaya at yahoo.com  Thu Jul  3 01:19:42 2003
From: rimbalaya at yahoo.com (Rim)
Date: 2 Jul 2003 22:19:42 -0700
Subject: Suggesting for overloading the assign operator
References: <6f03c4a5.0306301931.3f15fbb7@posting.google.com> <mailman.1057072504.30095.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <6f03c4a5.0307022119.4cbcf66b@posting.google.com>

> Do they not understand that '=' binds a name to an object?  Are

They do understand the binding to the object, but there are objects
that do not need explicit casting, like integers. As you know you can
say "name = 18" and name will become an int, but int was not
explicitely specified, it was infered by the interpreter, but as soon
as I extend int to myint, I suddenly have to do "name = myint(18)",
which I find annoying, but if that's the way it is so be it.

Thanks!
- Rim



From mickey at tm.informatik.uni-frankfurt.de  Tue Jul  1 13:56:36 2003
From: mickey at tm.informatik.uni-frankfurt.de (Michael 'Mickey' Lauer)
Date: 1 Jul 2003 17:56:36 GMT
Subject: PyQT and Mandrake 9.1
References: <bdrsbq$2a8d$1@biggoron.nerim.net> <bdrug5$vdeid$1@ID-174077.news.dfncis.de> <bds25p$nql$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk> <bds7ig$vqb2g$1@ID-174077.news.dfncis.de> <bds9l0$1bj$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <bdsi0k$10jkr7$2@ID-192111.news.dfncis.de>

Politics and polemics aside - how 'bout an attempt to help the OP?

Did you install libqt3-devel ?

:M:



From bokr at oz.net  Tue Jul  1 22:07:21 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 2 Jul 2003 02:07:21 GMT
Subject: Suggesting for overloading the assign operator
References: <6f03c4a5.0306301931.3f15fbb7@posting.google.com> <mailman.1057072504.30095.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bdteop$t9u$0@216.39.172.122>

On Tue, 1 Jul 2003 09:22:03 -0600, Steven Taschuk <staschuk at telusplanet.net> wrote:

>Quoth Rim:
>  [...]
>> The idea is to separate the value assignment from the type assignment,
>> by introducing a new operator, let's say the ':=' operator.
>> 
>> '=' remains what it is, assigns type and value at the same time
>> ':=' assigns only the value
>
>That's a peculiar way of speaking.  '=' does not assign type and
>value to a variable; it assigns an object to a name.
>
>  [...]
>> In reality, := would just coerce the return type of the RHS of := to
>> the type of the variable on the LHS of the :=, preserving the value(s)
>> as best as it can.
>
>"The type of the variable" is not a meaningful phrase in Python:
>names do not have types; objects do.  I assume you meant "the type
>of the object the name on the lhs is presently bound to".
>
>Coerce how?  Do you want a new __magicmethod__ for this operation?
>
>Would ':=' mutate the object presently bound to the lhs name
>create a new object and rebind the lhs name?  To be concrete:
>
One thought would be that it wouldn't change the current binding. E.g.,

    x := y

could be a spelling of x.__update__(y) and would be an *expression* with
potential side effects. By convention, a reference to the updated same object
would be returned. I.e., x.__class__ would have to have

    def __update__(self, other):
        <optional use of other>
        return self

For starters, you could just let AttributeError get raised if there's no __update__ method.

>    a = whatever
>    b = a
>    a := 7
>    assert a is b
>
>Should that assertion succeed or fail, in general?  (Note that it
>fails in general if the ':=' is replaced with '=', even if
>whatever == 7.)

For the above, it should succeed, since the binding will have been unchanged
>
>Would ':=' support chaining?  That is, would
>    a := b := <some expression>
>work?  If so, would it be equivalent to
Yes, it should work, but no, it wouldn't be equivalent to
>    _tmp = <some expression>
>    a := _tmp
>    b := _tmp
working left to right, it would presumably be equivalent to

     a.__update__(b).__update__(<some expression>)

>(except for the namespace pollution), to match the semantics of
>chained '='?  (Note that the assignments happen left to right.)
>
>Would use of a name on the lhs of a ':=' cause that name to be
>considered local, as such use with '=' does?
No, because it would be a named object reference for the purpose of looking
up the __update__ attribute in the non-sugar spelling of a:=b (which
is a.__update__(b)) -- i.e., it's an expression, not really an assignment statement.

>
>> If the type of the variable was still undefined, ':=' would behave
>> like '='. It might create confusion in future code, but does not break
>> old code.
>
>Yikes.  Why not raise NameError if the name on the lhs of ':=' is
>not yet bound?
Yes.

>
>> I think it would be a nice feature to have. Comments?
>
>Your example
>    a = Currency(6)
>    a := 7
>is highly strange.  (Even if we ignore the question of *which*
>currency is being represented; the example could easily be
>restated with, say, FixedPoint or Rational or some such.)
>
I don't know that I would totally dismiss the usage. It could be
a concise notation for a possibly polymorphic update operation.

    w = Widget(blah, blah)
    w := ('blue','white')  # changes fg/bg colors
    w := (20,40) # changes position
    w := Font('Times Roman', size=24)
    w := 'some text appended to a text widget'

Of course, you could use a property very similarly, e.g.,
    w.p = 'text ...'

I guess it's a matter of what kind of sugar you like ;-)

>How is it that your users are happy to write Currency(...) when
>first assigning to a name, but not happy doing so when assigning
>later?
>
>Do they not understand that '=' binds a name to an object?  Are
>they C programmers who think of assignment as copying a value from
>one location in memory to another?  Do they think of the first
>assignment as a type declaration for the name?  (If any of these
>three are true, they need to be better educated -- they're all
>fundamental misconceptions about Python.)
True, but if they did understand that a=b binds but a:=b updates??

>
>Do they need a language with syntactic support for Currency
>objects?
I'm not sure what that would mean.

OTOH, a:=b might lead to analogies with a+=b and other a<op>=b
and then where would we be ;-)

Let's see...

    a+:=b => a.__update__(a.__add__(b))

?? ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From paulpaterson at users.sourceforge.net  Fri Jul 25 22:25:20 2003
From: paulpaterson at users.sourceforge.net (Paul Paterson)
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 02:25:20 GMT
Subject: How safe is modifying locals()?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1059171769.1203.python-list@python.org>
References: <BDcUa.100193$XV.6037947@twister.austin.rr.com> <mailman.1059171769.1203.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <kElUa.102362$XV.6096763@twister.austin.rr.com>

Shane Hathaway wrote:

> Paul Paterson wrote:
> 
>> I am trying to find a way to mimic by-reference argument passing for 
>> immutables in Python. I need to do this because I am writing an 
>> automated VB to Python converter.
>>
>> Here's an example of the VB code:
>>
>> Sub Change(ByVal x, ByRef y)
>> x = x+1
>> y = y+1
>> End Sub
>>
>> x = 0: y = 0
>> Change x, y
>> ' Now x should be 0 and y should be 1
> 
> 
> I might put all of the "ByRef" variables in a dictionary that gets 
> passed back to the caller through a hidden argument.
> 
> def change(x, y, _byref):
>   x = x + 1
>   y = _byref['y'] = y + 1
> 
> x = 0; y = 0
> __byref = {'y': y}; change(x, y, __byref); y = __byref['y']
> 

The problem here is that you still have the delayed change to 'y' in the 
caller's scope. Other posts in this thread have made me wonder whether 
this is a problem sepcific to the ByRef topic.

The interesting thing about your approach is that you have an explicit 
step for transmitting changes to y back to the calling scope - which is 
quite nice. In an automated translation, having this explicit is a good 
sign-post for the user to let them know that something important is 
going on.

> At least this relies on nothing magical.  One thing that's still wrong, 
> though, is that you can't embed the change() call in an expression. 
> AFAIK, in Python, assignment to a local variable absolutely requires a 
> statement.  You can get around this by splitting apart the expression 
> and storing the result of the call in another hidden temporary variable.
> 
> Even if you do that, though, exceptions will behave differently in 
> Python than they do in VB.  

Matching VB's exception behaviour is my worst nightmare - but that's 
another story ...

> If an exception occurs in change() after a 
> value has been assigned to 'y', the outer code won't get the value, and 
> it just might affect the behavior of the outer code.  You could fix that 
> with a try: / finally:
> 
> __byref = {'y': y}
> try:
>   change(x, y, __byref)
> finally:
>   y = __byref['y']
> 
> Suddenly it's awfully verbose and ugly, but if variables by reference 
> are rare (as they should be), maybe it's not so bad. :-)

Unfortunately (and to my shock), it seems that ByRef is the *default*! 
It may be the case that using the implications of ByRef are rare and it 
may be possible for me to detect when this is occuring.

> You could go the extreme route and store all variables in dictionaries 
> rather than use local variables, which would allow "true" references, 
> but then you'd kill speed and readability.  Better not do that.

At the end of the day (see my response to Ian) this may in fact be the 
safest approach if you want to match the exact behaviour of the original 
VB code. There will almost certainly be a switch where you can turn this 
off, but then it is up to the programmer to go and fix things which get 
broken. Hopefully it will be possible to try to identify likely hot 
spots automatically.

Paul




From vze4rx4y at verizon.net  Tue Jul 29 21:51:32 2003
From: vze4rx4y at verizon.net (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 01:51:32 GMT
Subject: inverse of the zip function
References: <9sBVa.12998$o%2.6289@sccrnsc02> <wdCVa.118$7h6.110@nwrdny03.gnilink.net> <pan.2003.07.29.22.31.46.551258@webone.com.au> <6%CVa.59$cI2.38@nwrdny01.gnilink.net> <bg7026$fvd$05$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <EwFVa.604$Jz2.298@nwrdny02.gnilink.net>

> I understand why it works as inverse when *<list> creates a argument list of
> list element. But don't understand why * works that way in this context.
> Does ** do this for maps and keywordargs, too? Hey, this is python - lets
> try:
> >>> def foo(a=None, b=None):
> ...   pass
> ...
> >>> foo(a=10, b=20)
> >>> foo(**{'a':10, 'b':20})
> >>>
>
> Coooool. Where is that documented? Never stumbled across it so far!

http://www.python.org/dev/doc/devel/ref/calls.html


Raymond Hettinger





From intentionally at blank.co.uk  Tue Jul 15 00:20:48 2003
From: intentionally at blank.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 05:20:48 +0100
Subject: anything like C++ references?
References: <000301c348c7$3c501980$21795418@dell1700> <jf22hvotj4n0q5tpkg627e3jv61norf93n@4ax.com> <3F11106A.65FDA8F2@alcyone.com> <iqm2hvs77lhe1m71v9b579070khbf0uv0a@4ax.com> <berqqd$ad5$1@panix3.panix.com> <brs2hv8edfv0d1fch9mha8otuulajnkh0g@4ax.com> <8vd6hv0sdvoitccmnj4pdj66ss2vg4ii3n@4ax.com> <5ir6hvof9m5rjh6i3u992l91un21qtmsh4@4ax.com> <9iu6hv4r968o9s1n5fh887u2j7an94de4e@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <vjv6hv03dfrooog8jsotnr1eu4a8j3hr17@4ax.com>

On Mon, 14 Jul 2003 20:57:44 -0700, Tom Plunket <tomas at fancy.org>
wrote:

>Stephen Horne wrote:
>
>> >Are they really technicalities, though?  I mean, a mutable object
>> >can be changed.  It's the same object, just changed.  Immutable
>> >objects, however, can't be changed.  You can get something that
>> >appears like changing it, but it's actually building a new thing
>> >and binding the label to that new thing.
>> 
>> Yes. But the thing being changed *is* an object, *not* a value. Values
>> are always immutable - basic fact of mathematics.
>
>Sure, but we're not modelling pure mathematics, we're modelling a
>level of abstraction that's appropriate for the problem that
>we're solving.

If that were true, the abstraction would not regularly be causing
confusion and errors, and it would not be a recurring issue on this
newsgroup.


>class Chameleon: pass
>
>a = Chameleon()
>b = a
>
>now, a and b represent the same thing.  Say it's a chameleon out
>in the woods.
>
>If I say:
>
>a.ClimbTree()
>
>then I expect
>
>b.GetColor()
>
>to return some brown color, since a and b are referring to the
>same critter.

All this tells me is that you have got used to the current Python way.
Personally, I think that if you want indirect references to objects
you should ask for them explicitly. That way there's no confusion.

>I don't agree, because Python is a language that allows us to
>model objects in a way that is comfortable to us.  If I wanted to
>use a more mathematically pure language, I would, but that
>language would likely not be suited to the problems I'm trying to
>solve.

Comfortable to those who are used to it, perhaps. But again, the fact
of regular confusion and errors, and of the issue regularly
reappearing in the group, shows that this 'comfort' is a very long way
from being universal.




From wayne at mishre.com  Sat Jul 12 15:43:25 2003
From: wayne at mishre.com (Wayne Pierce)
Date: 12 Jul 2003 12:43:25 -0700
Subject: Any pure-python relational databases?
References: <pan.2003.07.12.14.11.19.428895@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <2a897f11.0307121143.4a37113b@posting.google.com>

David McNab <postmaster at 127.0.0.1> wrote in message news:<pan.2003.07.12.14.11.19.428895 at 127.0.0.1>...

[sniped]

> 1) Any pure-python interface to MySQL? or

If you cannot get the MySQL specific interface working, have you tried
a generic database interface?

http://www.python.org/topics/database/DatabaseAPI-2.0.html

> 2) Any kind of relational DBMS written in pure python that'll run on
> 1.5.2?

While not relational, have you looked at Metakit?

http://www.equi4.com/metakit/python.html

Wayne



From frobozz_electric at hotmail.com  Wed Jul  9 11:17:09 2003
From: frobozz_electric at hotmail.com (Sean Ross)
Date: 9 Jul 2003 15:17:09 GMT
Subject: OT: Genetic Algorithm Recipe Bug Fix
References: <JwYMa.5801$eF3.719843@news20.bellglobal.com> <beh8ad$dm0$1@news.hccnet.nl>
Message-ID: <behbll$or0$1@driftwood.ccs.carleton.ca>

"Anton Vredegoor" <anton at vredegoor.doge.nl> wrote in message
news:beh8ad$dm0$1 at news.hccnet.nl...
> Importing the math module should also make a big difference for the
> standard deviation routine :-) Also stddev was only used by the
> sigmascaling code, which was unreachable ...

Thank you! I tacked on the fitness proportional stuff (roulette selection,
sigma scaling, expected values) on at the end to try to make the offering
more well-rounded, but I only did a couple of quick runs on one problem to
test. It looked fine, so I went ahead. I won't do that again - heh.

I had *no* idea that the sigma scaling was unreachable. I'm stunned and
embarassed. Thank you for making me aware the problem. I've done the
imported math module fix but, as for the sigma scaling, that will be
resolved in the newer version I'm working on: refactoring, renaming,
redesigning, reworking, that sort of thing. That version should be available
on my site sometime in early August. I already prefer it over the old
version, and I'm not quite finished :)

> However, this is a very
> nice module and I especially like the graphical TSP-solver that is in
> the other package on your website.
>

I'm glad you like it. I enjoyed watching it try to solve problems too.
Seeing where it would get stalled, trying to fiddle with the parameters to
make it work faster, better. Unfortunately, I did that display for a course,
so it was a matter of "just meet the deadline" code production. So, for
instance, the builtin scaling mechanisms are poorly designed - you can't
easily introduce a TSP problem that is different from the one provided and
have it display well. I don't know if I'll get around to fixing that soon -
I have other things to work on at the moment.

> I had been looking at it before but I failed to comprehend what you
> were doing.

There's a lot there. I'm a bit torn. I wanted to give people some examples
of operators that you may not find in other Genetic Algorithm code, but I
also think there's just a bit too much code there. When I post the next
version, I'm thinking I will just post a kernel of the system with a few
interesting tidbits, and then make the entire module available on my site.
That way it will be easier to read on the recipe page, and you can still get
more if you like.
We'll see.

> Anyway, maybe seeing your code used and *changed* will give enough of
> a jolt to start working on it some more (which I would welcome :-)

Wait til you read the next version ;)  It has 3 whole classes! (heh). Thanks
again for making me aware of the bugs in this code. I was hoping people
might get some benefit from this code, and I'm glad that someone has. I'm
just sorry it's not better.





From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Jul 24 09:15:00 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 09:15:00 -0400
Subject: Reading Keyboard Scan Codes
References: <60FB8BB7F0EFC7409B75EEEC13E2019202CE4706@admin56.narex.com> <mailman.1059011196.15469.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3F1FDBD4.F38948CB@engcorp.com>

Francois Pinard wrote:
> 
> [Fran?ois Pinard]
> 
> > [...] I do not know if reading scan codes or key codes is easily done
> > within X, nor on MS-Windows.  I would like finding or discovering recipes
> > in this area.  So, please share your tricks in this area, if any! :-)
> 
> [Bjorn Pettersen]
> 
> > I'm assuming you can use the msvcrt module:
> 
> > >>> def getch():
> > ...     import msvcrt
> > ...     while not msvcrt.kbhit(): pass
> > ...     return msvcrt.getch()
> > ...
> > >>> getch()
> > 'a'
> > >>>
> 
> This does not give scan codes (or key codes of some sort).  I would like
> being able to detect, for example, if Ctrl is being held while Keypad-5
> is entered, or any other such (possibly unusual) combination of keys.

I'm not sure about your specific case with Ctrl-Keypad-5 (is that a valid
combination?), but the above will return 0 or 224 plus another code for the 
special keys (such as function keys, and the numeric keypad keys, and
those values are different when Ctrl is held down.

For example, Home on the numeric keypad is (0, 71), while Ctrl-Home
is (0, 119).  The other Home key comes back as (224, 71), and with
Ctrl it is (224, 119).

Experiment a bit and you'll figure it out.

-Peter



From bokr at oz.net  Sun Jul  6 17:50:40 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 6 Jul 2003 21:50:40 GMT
Subject: Using Loops to track user input
References: <bea0p6$17f$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <bea5jg$kl8$0@216.39.172.122>

On Sun, 06 Jul 2003 16:32:37 -0400, hokiegal99 <hokiegal99 at hotmail.com> wrote:

>I don't understand how to use a loop to keep track of user input. Could 
>someone show me how to do what the program below does with a loop?
>
>Thnaks!
>
>----------------------------
>#Write a program that reads 10 numbers from the user and prints out the 
>sum of those numbers.
>
>num0 = input("Enter a number: ")
>num1 = input("Enter a number: ")
>num2 = input("Enter a number: ")
>num3 = input("Enter a number: ")
>num4 = input("Enter a number: ")
>num5 = input("Enter a number: ")
>num6 = input("Enter a number: ")
>num7 = input("Enter a number: ")
>num8 = input("Enter a number: ")
>num9 = input("Enter a number: ")
>
>num = num0+num1+num2+num3+num4+num5+num6+num7+num8+num9
>
>print num
>----------------------------------
>

 >>> num = 0
 >>> for i in range(10):
 ...     prompt = 'Enter %s%s number: '%(i,i<4 and 'thstndrd'[2*i:2*i+2] or 'th')
 ...     while 1:
 ...         try:
 ...             num += int(raw_input(prompt))
 ...             break
 ...         except Exception,e:
 ...             print '    Error: %s' % e
 ...
 Enter 0th number: 100
 Enter 1st number: 10
 Enter 2nd number: x
     Error: invalid literal for int(): x
 Enter 2nd number: 2
 Enter 3rd number: 3
 Enter 4th number: 4.5
     Error: invalid literal for int(): 4.5
 Enter 4th number: 4
 Enter 5th number: 5
 Enter 6th number: 6
 Enter 7th number: 7
 Enter 8th number: 8
 Enter 9th number: 9
 >>> print num
 154

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From noah at noah.org  Sat Jul 12 20:05:22 2003
From: noah at noah.org (Noah)
Date: 12 Jul 2003 17:05:22 -0700
Subject: How do I have a client shutdown a win32 COM server?
References: <c9d82136.0307120847.4fdd12fa@posting.google.com> <mailman.1058030658.29767.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c9d82136.0307121605.568cc4b1@posting.google.com>

Bob Gailer <bgailer at alum.rpi.edu> wrote in message news:<mailman.1058030658.29767.python-list at python.org>...
> >"Noah" <noah at noah.org> wrote in message
> >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > How do I shutdown a win32 COM server?
> > >
> 
> If that does not do it try:
>    comobject.Quit()
> Bob Gailer

That was it! Too simple... Thanks!

Noah



From cben at techunix.technion.ac.il  Wed Jul 30 15:20:23 2003
From: cben at techunix.technion.ac.il (Beni Cherniavsky)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 22:20:23 +0300 (IDT)
Subject: streams (was: Re: Itertools)
In-Reply-To: <KKtVa.8$Y5.1@llslave.llan.ll.mit.edu>
References: <KKtVa.8$Y5.1@llslave.llan.ll.mit.edu>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.51.0307302112430.15928@techunix.technion.ac.il>

Ronald Legere wrote on 2003-07-29:

> The new itertools stuff is pretty cool. One thing that bothers me
> though is that there seems to be no way to copy an iterator. How
> does one work around this? Is there a trick that I am missing?
>
> Without being able to 'split' an iterator, I can't think of how to
> do some of the cool things you can do with lazy lists in Haskell. It
> seems quite often you want to be able to do this 'splitting', and if
> I had more coffee I would post an example :) The ones I can think of
> are also defined recursively, which is another kettle of fish.
>
Strange, the need seems to come up more freqeuntly since I implemented
it ;-).  Or is it just me paying more attention to it?  After a couple
of design iterations, I've got:

http://www.technion.ac.il/~cben/python/streams.py

[NEWS: The last changes were addition of __nonzero__ methods, clued by
discussion on c.l.py <wink>, and a `.force(count=None)` method to
force computing values.]

I concluded that it's best to separate the two abstractions, providing
ability to convert both ways:

- An iterable immutable (but lazily computed) linked list, with O(1)
  tail access and ability to cons in front of it.

- An iterator object whose `.next()` method is necessarily
  destructive, on another hand.  Turns out the most flexible
  implementation of the iterator is simply a pointer to a linked list;
  this way you can split the iterator and even "unyield" values back
  onto it.  See the module for more details.

In general it's most clean to separate iterables from iterators.
Iterables should be changed by iterating.

Any feedback welcome.  I'd like to make it as Pythonic as possible.
An perhaps make it standard.  Particular open questions:

- Terminology.  There are too many names for the same things ;-).

  - The linked lists are called "streams" by me because they are lazy
    and that's what such beasts are called in functional languages.
    But I still have many refernces to them as linked lists,
    especially w.r.t. the `Cons` class which happens to be the base
    class of `Stream`.  So `Stream` is defined as a lazy linked list
    node.  Should I try to squash refences to "linked lists", treating
    them as "stream nodes which are already computed" to reduce
    confusion with Python lists?

    - car/cdr vs. first/rest vs. head/tail.  I chose head/tail.
      car/cdr would be opaque to people without lisp background.
      first/rest are of different length :-).

    - `Cons` still requires lisp background but I don't know any name
      that would be recognizable to non-lispers anyway.  And it's not
      a bad name.

  - Is `StreamIter` the best name?

    - I called the operation for creating new iterator from same place
      "forking".  Alternative names: `split`, `copy`, `clone`, `dup`,
      "lookahead", etc.  What's best?

    - Consing in front of a StreamIter's stream is called `.unyeild`.
      The point is that it's the opposite of the ``yield`` statement
      but the name is a brave new invention.  Alternatives: `prev`
      (antonym of `.next()`, probably misguided since it doesn't
      return the previous value but rather takes it from you),
      `pushback`, `unread`, `stuff`, etc.

- Functionality:

  - Should the operations (`.head`/`.tail`, indexing) on the
    underlying stream be proxied by `StreamIter` or should the
    programmer have to spell out e.g. ``iterator.stream.head`` as now?

  - What to do about __repr__ and __str__?  The streams could well be
    infinite and forcing lookahead for even a few values is
    unacceptable as this could be expensive.

  - What to do about __hash__ and __eq__?

  - Should I weakly memoize the `Stream` for each given iterable?
    That would reduce the risk of wrapping a destructive iterator
    twice with distinct streams, so that each produced item is seen by
    only one stream, with access-order-dependant interleaving,
    violating the functional intent of the laziness.  OTOH, this would
    make the programmer less aware of the risk.  Besides, I'm not sure
    what to return on the second attempt to wrap same iterator after
    some of it has already been consumed since the first time.

  - Would some convenience operations for lookahead, e.g.
    `.startswith()` be useful?

  - Anything else anybody needs?

-- 
Beni Cherniavsky <cben at tx.technion.ac.il>

Put a backslash at the evening to continue hacking onto the next day.




From skip at pobox.com  Mon Jul  7 15:56:46 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 14:56:46 -0500
Subject: [Spambayes] mail.generator examples - anyone kknow where I can find
        them?
In-Reply-To: <v0311071dbb2f7dc817fc@[192.168.0.2]>
References: <v0311071dbb2f7dc817fc@[192.168.0.2]>
Message-ID: <16137.53374.3816.265404@montanaro.dyndns.org>

python-list instead of python-dev would be a better place to post your
request.

    John> I've been trying to understand the email.generator class.  There
    John> are virtually NO examples showing how to "generate" an Email
    John> message.

You might try poking around the Mailman 2.1 source code for examples:

    % find . -name '*.py' | xargs egrep -i generator
    ./admin/www/MMGenerator.py:"""Generator for the Mailman on-line documentation.
    ./admin/www/MMGenerator.py:class MMGenerator(Skeleton, Sidebar, Banner):
    ./Mailman/Handlers/Scrubber.py:from email.Generator import Generator
    ./Mailman/Handlers/Scrubber.py:# We're using a subclass of the standard Generator because we want to suppress
    ./Mailman/Handlers/Scrubber.py:# sub-Generators will get created passing only mangle_from_ and maxheaderlen
    ./Mailman/Handlers/Scrubber.py:class ScrubberGenerator(Generator):
    ./Mailman/Handlers/Scrubber.py:        Generator.__init__(self, outfp, mangle_from_=0)
    ./Mailman/Handlers/Scrubber.py:            Generator._write_headers(self, msg)
    ./Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py:from email.Generator import Generator
    ./Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py:    g = Generator(mboxfp)
    ./Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py:        g = Generator(plainmsg)
    ./Mailman/ListAdmin.py:from email.Generator import Generator
    ./Mailman/ListAdmin.py:                g = Generator(fp)
    ./Mailman/ListAdmin.py:                g = Generator(outfp)
    ./Mailman/Mailbox.py:from email.Generator import Generator
    ./Mailman/Mailbox.py:        # Create a Generator instance to write the message to the file
    ./Mailman/Mailbox.py:        g = Generator(self.fp)

Skip




From john at landahl.org  Thu Jul 24 19:03:24 2003
From: john at landahl.org (John Landahl)
Date: 24 Jul 2003 16:03:24 -0700
Subject: Cluster Node Auto Discovery
References: <f1fd7b3.0307222211.7ccadd97@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <f3c2729b.0307241503.55f87f36@posting.google.com>

codepunk at codepunk.com (Codepunk) wrote in message news:<f1fd7b3.0307222211.7ccadd97 at posting.google.com>...
> 
> I have written a specialized server in python and now I wish to look
> at making it scalable. To do this I wish to include automatic
> discovery of peer nodes operating on my network. Can anyone provide me
> a pointer as to how I do such a thing? By how to do it I mean how does
> something like that work at the network level?
> 
> ping scan the ip range?
> some sort of broadcast packet?
> udp request to entire ip range?
> 
> I am not asking for code just how is something like that typically
> done?

It depends on what you mean by "peer nodes".  Do you mean *any* node
in your local network?  Or do you mean other nodes running your
software?

If the former, ping scanning would probably be sufficient.  You might
want to make use of the nmap tool (http://www.insecure.org/nmap/) to
simplify the job.

However, if by "peer nodes" you mean only other nodes running your
software, you might want to use Service Location Protocol (SLP,
defined by RFC 2608).  Take a look at OpenSLP
(http://www.openslp.org/) for an open source implementation.  There's
a Python wrapper (available in the "misc" directory of the
distribution, IIRC) which works quite well, and which condenses all
the C code to a .so for use by Python.  The advantage there is that
you don't need to distribute the entire OpenSLP package separately,
you only need to distribute the Python OpenSLP code itself (which can
easily be turned into a tarball via "python setup.py bdist").



From missive at frontiernet.net  Tue Jul 22 17:38:23 2003
From: missive at frontiernet.net (Lee Harr)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 21:38:23 GMT
Subject: Newbie question about strings
References: <mailman.1058831613.12207.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrnbhrbpf.1mgu.missive@localhost.my.domain>

In article <mailman.1058831613.12207.python-list at python.org> wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I have been tasked to Integrate Inktomi Search (now Verity of course) 
> with our website. I am fairly new to Python. The way the search 
> engine is setup is that it has embedded python in a html document. 
> After looking at the html code for a day or so, I was able to pin 
> point the place where I need to make a change but I am having a hard 
> time.
> 
> I am assuming
> 
> &$self.text(dbcol[docdb].pretty_name); 
> 
> prints something in HTML but I am trying to figure out it's 
> equivalent 
> in Python. I am assuming this is a string and I need to check it's 
> value against another string say 'XXY' if it is equal then go ahead 
> and print that value otherwise skip to the next item in the 
> list/array.
> 
> 
> This is what I had before and it worked
> 
><!--$
> first = 1
> for docdb in docdbs:
> if not dbcol.has_key(docdb): continue
> if first: first = 0; --> <!--$
> else: -->, <!--$
> -->Test< &$self.text(dbcol[docdb].pretty_name); >Test<!--$
> if not first: -->
> 
> when run this prints 
> 
> Test< XXY >Test, Test< ABCD >Test 
> 
> I want it to print only when the string is equal to XXY. otherwise 
> skip to the next string. This is the edited code that I have so far.
> 
> 
><!--$
> first = 1
> for docdb in docdbs:
> if not dbcol.has_key(docdb): continue
> if first: first = 0; --> <!--$
> else: -->, <!--$
> # my code 
> if dbcol[docdb] == <spider.Collection 'pc'> --> <!--$
> # end of my code


if dbcol[docdb] == spider.Collection('pc'): do_something();


I am not sure if spider is going to be found though,
I would need to see the API documentation to know
what is available in the namespace.  It looks, though
as if your code would need to be valid python.



> -->Test< &$self.text(dbcol[docdb].pretty_name); >Test<!--$
> if not first: -->
> 
> 
> I get the following error when I run the program. 
> 
> exceptions.SyntaxError: invalid syntax (line 86)
> Line 86
> if dbcol[docdb] == <spider.Collection 'pc'> wlines.append(u' ');
> 
> Any help would be greatly appreciated.
> 


Do you know python?  It might be a good start to go through
the python tutorial...

http://python.org/doc/current/tut/tut.html




From bhv1 at psu.edu  Sun Jul 13 20:36:39 2003
From: bhv1 at psu.edu (Brian Victor)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 00:36:39 GMT
Subject: Distutils gcc error
Message-ID: <slrnbh3umq.tru.bhv1@pa-steclge-u3-c3b-133.stcgpa.adelphia.net>

I am attempting to distribute my wxPython program with the aid of
distutils.  I have one C++ module that needs to built on the user's
machine.  When I run "./setup.py build", the following appears on the
terminal:

gcc -DNDEBUG -DNDEBUG -g -O3 -Wall -Wstrict-prototypes
-fno-strict-aliasing -fPIC -Isrc -I/usr/include/python2.2 -c src/bwaa.cc
-o build/temp.linux-ppc-2.2/bwaa.o -I/usr/local/lib/wx/include/gtk-2.4
-DGTK_NO_CHECK_CASTS -D__WXGTK__ -D_FILE_OFFSET_BITS=64 -D_LARGE_FILES
[snip]
/usr/local/include/wx/setup.h:15: #error No __WXxxx__ define set! Please
define one of
__WXBASE__,__WXGTK__,__WXMSW__,__WXMOTIF__,__WXMAC__,__WXQT__,__WXPM__,__WXSTUBS__

That error message is consistent with failure to define __WXGTK__.
However, that macro is clearly defined on the command line, and copying
and pasting that line into the terminal causes the build to succeed.
Why would that be?

This is how I have the extention defined in my setup.py file:

wxlibs = commands.getoutput("wx-config --libs")
wxcxxflags = commands.getoutput("wx-config --cxxflags")

bwaaext = Extension("bwaascalec", ["src/bwaa.cc", "src/bwaascale.cc"],
                    include_dirs=["src"],
                    extra_link_args=[wxlibs],
                    extra_compile_args=[wxcxxflags])
[snip]
      ext_modules=[bwaaext])

If anyone can point me to a fix, I would appreciate it.  Thanks in advance!

-- 
Brian



From and-google at doxdesk.com  Tue Jul 22 08:08:24 2003
From: and-google at doxdesk.com (Andrew Clover)
Date: 22 Jul 2003 05:08:24 -0700
Subject: PEP 304, and alternative
Message-ID: <2c60a528.0307220408.73c6e740@posting.google.com>

Evening all,

haven't seen much discussion on PEP 304 recently, what's its current
status?

As I'm currently writing something that also allows configuration of where
bytecode files go, I finally got around to reading the PEP, and I'm really
not convinced I like the approach it takes. It's so broad-brush; 
PYTHONBYTECODEBASE can only really be set per-user, and is likely to cause
the same problems PYTHONPATH did (before site-packages and .pth files made
all that easier).

The problems with user rights also look really horrid. Say bytecodebase is
/tmp/python/. All users must have write access to /tmp/python/home, so they
can store PYCs for PYs in their home directory; however if user A hasn't yet
run a PY from his home directory, user B can create /tmp/python/home/A and
put a booby-trapped PYC in, that could be run when user A executes a script
of the same name from /home/A. The only way I can see of getting around
problems like this in 304 is to create a complete skeleton of the existing
filesystem, owned by the same users as in the main filesystem, and keep it
updated. Which is impractical.

I'd instead like to do it by having a writable mapping in sys somewhere
which can hold a number of directory remappings. This could then be written
to on a site-level basis by sitecustomize.py and/or a user or module-level
basis by user code. eg.

  sys.bytecodebases= {
    '/home/and/pylib/': '/home/and/pybin/',
    '/www/htdocs/cgi-bin/': '/www/cgi-cache/'
  }

and so on. Filenames of .py files could be compared by string.startswith to
see if they match each rule. If they match more than one, the rule with the
longest key is used. If a match is made, its key is replaced by the value,
and 'c' or 'o' added to the filename. An attempt is made to makedirs the
parent directory if it doesn't exist.

IMO such a mapping, if it occurs, should replace rather than augment the
original directory as in 304. The need to look in the same directory
regardless of bytecodebase seems to come from the need to keep the process
of finding standard library modules unchanged; a selective remapping like
this would avoid the problem by not touching the standard modules (unless
you really want it to).

Also it avoids the problem of what to do on multi-root filesystems like that
of Windows, as only string matching is required.

(O)bjections, (T)houghts, (A)buse?

-- 
Andrew Clover
mailto:and at doxdesk.com
http://www.doxdesk.com/



From anton at vredegoor.doge.nl  Sun Jul 13 07:33:32 2003
From: anton at vredegoor.doge.nl (Anton Vredegoor)
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 13:33:32 +0200
Subject: The "intellectual property" misnomer
References: <mailman.1057994837.25939.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bergrd$ofu$1@news.hccnet.nl>

"Tim Peters" <tim.one at comcast.net> wrote:

>> -- there may be no patents, but with the statement they assert that
>> either there are no patents or they hold them.
>
>The PSF doesn't know of any patents associated with Python.  It's possible
>that the PSF will apply for some, though, and I like using "intellectual
>property" because it covers (in the common understanding) all stuff of this
>nature.

It's probably better to "think outside the box" and stop using the
term altogether. After reading this:

http://old.law.columbia.edu/my_pubs/anarchism.html

I get the feeling that many of the things said in there are true, but
still the conclusion to fight the law using the law as per the GPL
must be wrong.

For example:

http://www.negativland.com/albini.html

suggests that the legal system does little for creators of music and
is mainly used to protect the interest of the music companies.

Probably nothing good can come from using it. I am not saying that it
cannot be used to prevent something bad, but that it's probably better
to try to do something good ...

Another problem with the IP term is that it feels like a "contradictio
in terminis". It is very hard (impossible even ?) to delineate ones
own contribution to a piece of software because if an idea has any
quality it almost always depends on the ideas of a lot of other
people. Therefore ideas are very unlikely to be "undivided" property,
unless the intellectual level is very low.

Anton

--

If I have seen farther than others, it is only because I was standing
on the shoulders of giants



From LogiplexSoftware at earthlink.net  Tue Jul  8 14:53:11 2003
From: LogiplexSoftware at earthlink.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: 08 Jul 2003 11:53:11 -0700
Subject: path module
In-Reply-To: <1057687291.8459.71.camel@lothlorien>
References: <mailman.1057651032.22842.python-list@python.org>
	 <HBF.20030708keeu@bombur.uio.no>  <1057687291.8459.71.camel@lothlorien>
Message-ID: <1057690391.5396.68.camel@software1.logiplex.internal>

On Tue, 2003-07-08 at 11:01, Ian Bicking wrote:

> Interesting, but I think a bad idea.  I don't believe Python has been
> ported to Tops-20, and I'm not sure if there's a viable VMS port
> either.  Most filesystems don't have the complexity that the Lisp
> pathname encapsulates.  If someone was using VMS paths, I would assume
> they would subclass path for that OS, adding the portions that applied. 
> I think it's unreasonable to expect people programming on normal
> platforms to pay attention to components like version, so even including
> it in a structured manner is asking for trouble.

There is talk that Windows will have versioning in its next filesystem
(WinFS).  It would surprise me if there weren't similar plans on the
Linux side.

-- 
Cliff Wells, Software Engineer
Logiplex Corporation (www.logiplex.net)
(503) 978-6726  (800) 735-0555





From Ax10 at gmx.de  Sat Jul  5 03:12:56 2003
From: Ax10 at gmx.de (Mike Abel)
Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2003 09:12:56 +0200
Subject: tkFileDialog without a parent window
References: <be21e4$trp$1@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <ocait-ud4.ln1@1.mabelsoft.org>

Stephen Boulet <stephen.boulet at motorola.com> wrote:

> How can I do this without an empty tk window popping up and hanging around 
> after the dialog is closed? Thanks.


Well i think this is probably a problem in your script not a
problem from tkFileDialog.

Mike



From dave at pythonapocrypha.com  Sun Jul 13 07:50:46 2003
From: dave at pythonapocrypha.com (Dave Brueck)
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 05:50:46 -0600
Subject: anything like C++ references?
In-Reply-To: <u432hvkg62vsoela63f45e5pj144ehf7qe@4ax.com>
References: <000301c348c7$3c501980$21795418@dell1700> <mailman.1058062578.6658.python-list@python.org> <u432hvkg62vsoela63f45e5pj144ehf7qe@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <200307130550.46624.dave@pythonapocrypha.com>

On Sunday 13 July 2003 01:41 am, Tom Plunket wrote:
> Dave Brueck wrote:
> > Your response above (that the normal thing to do in Python is
> > just return the modified value) made me wonder if most people are
> > asking about pass-by-reference not because they want pass-by-
> > reference, but because in C it's generally a nuisance to return
> > stuff from functions, especially multiple values, so you end up
> > learning about pointers and/or pass-by-reference.
>
> In C++ it's trivial to return multiple values

Trivial but non-intuitive until you convince yourself "that's the way it is", 
perhaps. :) What I mean is this: when you're just starting out you learn that 
functions can return values like this:

int foo(int a, int b)
{
  return a + b;
}

But the method for returning more than one thing is not a simple progression 
from this pattern. Instead you learn and shift to a *completely* different 
mechanism. In Python, however, you *can* continue along the original route as 
well:

def foo(a, b, c):
  return a+b, b+c

> > IOW, if you could erase the influence of previous languages would
> > this FAQ become "how can I return multiple things from a
> > function" more often than it would become "how can I modify an
> > object from inside a function"?
>
> That's a good idea, although I would have to say that multiple
> return values typically means that your function is doing too
> many things.  ;)

Far from it:

lastName, firstName = line.split('\t')

(there are many, many, many such examples). This is also an example of what I 
mean by "in C it's genreally a nuisance to return multiple values":

void split(char *pLine, char **ppLastName, char **ppFirstName) {}

Sadly, it's not uncommon to see one-off structures defined whose sole purpose 
in life is to act as a go-between for functions. Ugh.

-Dave




From mail at cheesch.de  Tue Jul 15 03:48:54 2003
From: mail at cheesch.de (Carsten Heesch)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 09:48:54 +0200
Subject: Need help: Compiling Python-Code
Message-ID: <bf0bl2$9j5nf$1@ID-98920.news.uni-berlin.de>

Hi,

I wrote some little python programs which run without problems. Now I'd like
to compile them into byte-code.

What do I have to do?

Platform: SuSE Linux 8.2


Thx in advance.


Carsten





From exarkun at intarweb.us  Wed Jul  2 23:34:04 2003
From: exarkun at intarweb.us (Jp Calderone)
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 23:34:04 -0400
Subject: anything like a "pointer" in python?
In-Reply-To: <20030703014105.16688.qmail@sina.com>
References: <20030703014105.16688.qmail@sina.com>
Message-ID: <20030703033329.GA30078@intarweb.us>

On Thu, Jul 03, 2003 at 09:41:05AM +0800, stevenswan wrote:
> I want to open a file in python and read something and process the file in c++ moduel, but there is no "pointer" in python,
> so how can I pass the arg(file buffer) between python and c++ modules?

  fileObj.fileno()

  Or, you could just open the file in your extension module.

  Or, you could pass the PyFileObject* (fileObj) to the extension module and
call PyFile_AsFile() on it.

  Jp




From bkelley at wi.mit.edu  Wed Jul 30 11:50:03 2003
From: bkelley at wi.mit.edu (Brian Kelley)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 11:50:03 -0400
Subject: graph libraries
In-Reply-To: <bg7scl$lct6m$1@ID-130333.news.uni-berlin.de>
References: <bg7n2n$u9b$1@slb9.atl.mindspring.net> <bg7scl$lct6m$1@ID-130333.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <3f27e8d3$0$3945$b45e6eb0@senator-bedfellow.mit.edu>

Hi Andrew!  A couple more to pepper your list:

Graph Template Library
http://www.infosun.fmi.uni-passau.de/GTL/
Seems to have some fairly decent algorithms but I can't say much more 
than that.

GNU Goblin Graph Library
http://www.math.uni-augsburg.de/opt/goblin.html
Good editors and layout support (not for molecules, of course).  Uses 
TCL/TK to script but I think a python port would be minimal.

And of course, vflib has their own internal model that I have wrapped. 
You can download it from http://frowns.sourceforge.net/

We could then go into the commercial libraries:

LEDA and it's java equivalent yWorks.  They also distribute BALL 
http://www.algorithmic-solutions.com/enballbeschreibung.htm
a molecular modelling environment for protein prediction/docking and the 
like.  Good academic license but pricey otherwise.

Tom's Graph Library -> great layout routines.

Brian.




From sross at connectmail.carleton.ca  Thu Jul 10 13:03:35 2003
From: sross at connectmail.carleton.ca (Sean Ross)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 13:03:35 -0400
Subject: for in sequence problem... possible new operator to add to python
References: <3a8fc6c5.0307100816.634c83a3@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <5_gPa.8878$ru2.867718@news20.bellglobal.com>

"Adam Gent" <agentgt at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:3a8fc6c5.0307100816.634c83a3 at posting.google.com...
> I was fooling around subclassing a dictionary object and noticed that
> when
> I do the standard "for in <object-is-a-sequence>:" that I have no
> control on how python gets that sequence.
[snip]
> However I want b to be the values with out doing:
> for b in bl.values()

You can do it as follows:

class Blah(dict):
    def __iter__(self):
        return iter(self.values())

b = Blah()
b.update({'hello':'world', 'how':'are', 'you':'today'})
for v in b:
    print v

# OUTPUT:
# are
# today
# world

Just be aware that you are introducing surprising behaviour - other Python
programmers will expect

for v in b:

to iterate thru the keys of b, not the values. It's up to you whether you
want this behaviour more than you want your code to be easily understood.






From tom at liveDELETE-MElogix.com  Thu Jul  3 09:57:10 2003
From: tom at liveDELETE-MElogix.com (Tom Locke)
Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 13:57:10 GMT
Subject: Emacs + py-mode + tkinter problem
Message-ID: <WCWMa.18$Ha.16@nwrdny02.gnilink.net>

Hi All,

I'm having trouble with the python shell within emacs. It's hanging when I
use tkinter. Setup is:

Windows XP
emacs 21.3
py-mode 4.6

Recipe:
>From a python-mode buffer, launch the python shell (C-c !), then in the
shell

>>> import Tkinter
>>> root = Tkinter.Tk()
>>> 1+2

And that's all folks. I get precisely one prompt after creating the root,
and then it hangs.

I've had a trawl around and it seems a few have run into this, but so far no
fix.

One tip was try running python with -u, but then I get syntax errors with
anything I type - seems like a CR/LF issue.

Help! :(

Tom.





From afriere at yahoo.co.uk  Thu Jul 31 22:24:32 2003
From: afriere at yahoo.co.uk (Asun Friere)
Date: 31 Jul 2003 19:24:32 -0700
Subject: Misuse of <tab>
References: <3f27f0e3$1@news.broadpark.no> <vifvcvqdd4mf4@news.supernews.com> <RbTVa.8214$gU6.967766@twister.nyc.rr.com> <pan.2003.07.30.20.07.18.351027@cs.rit.edu> <38ec68a6.0307301841.dfb951a@posting.google.com> <pan.2003.07.31.22.26.10.881778@cs.rit.edu>
Message-ID: <38ec68a6.0307311824.1f17b2d0@posting.google.com>

"Keith Jones" <kmj9907 at cs.rit.edu> wrote in message news:<pan.2003.07.31.22.26.10.881778 at cs.rit.edu>...
> > If you use vim remember to put 'set expandtab' (or if you wanna be fancy
> > 'au BufRead,BufNewFile *.py set expandtab' ) into your .vimrc (or .exrc)
> > file.  This way you can use '[Ctrl]-[T]' and '[Ctrl]-[D]' to in- and
> > un-dent in insert mode, as well as '>>' and '<<' in command mode,
> > without fear of hard tabs being inserted.  (Though the way vi(m) mixes
> > tabs and spaces is consistent enough that you wouldn't usually get into
> > any trouble with it.)
> 
> 
> Oh, yeah, forgot to mention expandtab; I did not know about >>, <<,
> Ctrl+T, and Ctrl+D, however; so thanks for those. I had  mapped <tab> and
> <s-tab> to : s/^/    /<cr> and : s/^     /<cr> for command mode, which I
> guess I won't have to use anymore.

[ctrl]-[t] and [ctrl]-[d] also exist in vanilla vi, but are much more
nicely implemented in vim.  In vi you have to make sure you are at the
front of the line, or else you indent will be inserted into your line
(which is hardly ever what you would want).  In vim it doesn't matter
where in the line your cursor is, the commands will move the line as a
unit, much like your mappings would.

I should perhaps also mention the very useful ex versions of this
command as well.  ie '>' for a single indent, '>>' for two indents,
'<<<' for three dedents, etc, which like ex commands generally are
especially useful when you want to move a bunch of lines at a time.

Thanks for that resource file listing, that is going to up a whole new
vista of vim/python usage for me.



From tim at remove_if_not_spam.digitig.co.uk  Wed Jul 16 06:16:39 2003
From: tim at remove_if_not_spam.digitig.co.uk (Tim Rowe)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 11:16:39 +0100
Subject: hex check
References: <mailman.1058340712.8247.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <kc9ahvo6tovkopfcmhb125metq48kmsdkb@4ax.com>

On Wed, 16 Jul 2003 10:39:33 +0300, Ruslan Spivak <alienoid at is.lg.ua>
wrote:

>Hello.
>
>Does anybody have a hint how to check if input hex number is in correct 
>hex format?

could always try:

num = raw_input("Enter hex number"):
try:
    int(num, 16)
    print "Yes, that was hex!"
except:
    print "Doesn't look like hex to me!"

I'm sure someone else here can do better.



From skip at pobox.com  Wed Jul 23 11:40:11 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 10:40:11 -0500
Subject: python assignment
In-Reply-To: <3F1E964E.BFD7513F@engcorp.com>
References: <fbf8d8f2.0307221659.1dd1ac77@posting.google.com>
        <slrnbhrqtj.9jf.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>
        <3f1e92bc$0$161$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
        <3F1E964E.BFD7513F@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <16158.44123.73600.679465@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    >> > The examples you gave showed that integers share identity with other
    >> > integers of the same value, while floats do not.

    >> I believe that's only true for small integers, isn't it?

    Peter> Google finds "LOADI - a fast load instruction for small positive
    Peter> integers (those referenced by the small_ints array in
    Peter> intobject.c)"

LOADI was an instruction I implemented a few years ago when investigating
bytecode optimization.  It was never added to the Python virtual machine
(ceval.c).

Skip




From max at alcyone.com  Mon Jul 14 21:07:57 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 18:07:57 -0700
Subject: anything like C++ references?
References: <000301c348c7$3c501980$21795418@dell1700> <sag3hv4vf884ed7ouu5cv8ofnopp9j1t12@4ax.com> <bet1sd$ibl$1@panix3.panix.com> <sfa4hvkq1j7rg1iga5j3tk2cc4qpr6e5qk@4ax.com> <beueis$b1d$1@panix3.panix.com> <78c6hvgu599ku5denkkl7pgmd4n13t460i@4ax.com> <roy-204535.19175914072003@reader1.panix.com> <aqe6hvgos16fphscbqbt633nhvur9vooet@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3F1353ED.4111EC1D@alcyone.com>

Stephen Horne wrote:

> 99 out of 100 times, true. But not always - especially in discrete
> maths.
> 
> For example, if I write...
> 
>   [forall] x . f(x) = y
> 
> It's hard to interpret that '=' as an assertion. Similar applies to a
> range of maths operators.

How is that not an assertion, anymore than

	[exists] x [~ (x = y)]

or

	s = (1/2) a t^2

?

I don't mean this as an insult, but it seems to me that much of your
comments on Python in these threads come down to, "The way this works is
not something I would have given this name to."  While that's completely
legitimate, it's hard to see it as very compelling, since your
distinctions seem to me to be fairly arbitrary (x = y is assertion but
ALL x [f(x) = y] isn't?).

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ Does the true light / Of love come in flashes
\__/  Sandra St. Victor



From m.stenzel at allanime.de  Mon Jul  7 20:07:07 2003
From: m.stenzel at allanime.de (Markus Stenzel)
Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 02:07:07 +0200
Subject: Reverse Engineering of Windows Distribution
In-Reply-To: <3F099651.5D3C74D1@engcorp.com>
References: <bebuo8$h80$07$1@news.t-online.com> <3F098251.426DB151@engcorp.com> <bec0t7$4mj$04$1@news.t-online.com> <3F099651.5D3C74D1@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <bed1vb$5mj$07$1@news.t-online.com>

The exe was compiled using py2exe. I have identified a set of well known 
initials "PK" (Phil Katz, author of the legendary PKZIP software) - and 
in fact there was a ZIP embedded in the executable at position 9000C.

Unpacking this zip resulted in a bunch of .pyc files which I'm currently 
running through the beta version of the decompyle package. Wonder if 
that will work ;)

Thanks for your help Peter.

   Markus

Peter Hansen wrote:
> The packaging process used might be useful to know: was it py2exe, or the 
> Macmillan Installer?
> 
> Note, in case you weren't aware, that you won't actually get back the 
> *source*, such that you could easily modify it and recompile.  You'll
> get back the compiled (bytecode) file, which you could put into a .pyc
> file and run in place of the "bad" .py file which you have... at least
> in theory.
> 
> Retrieving the source itself is even more involved.  It requires
> decompiling (see "decompyle"), although if you go that route you should
> get back something very close to the original.  Maybe even enough for you
> to do a "diff" and patch the latest version to work again?
> 
> Sounds like a lot of work though.  Wouldn't it be easier to work with
> the author to fix the problem in the supported versions, and use them?
> 
> -Peter




From plasser at hexagon.at  Thu Jul  3 07:19:24 2003
From: plasser at hexagon.at (Juergen R. Plasser)
Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 13:19:24 +0200
Subject: libxml2 Python bindings error
Message-ID: <12307667.1057238364@[192.168.123.98]>

Hi,

I have installed libxml2-2.5.7, libxslt-1.0.30 from source and the bindings 
libxml2-python-2.5.7.

Everything seems to compile fine, but when I try to import the libxml2 
library in python I get the following error:

Python 2.1.3 (#1, Feb 10 2003, 10:37:44)
[GCC 2.95.3 20010315 (SuSE)] on linux2
Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import libxml2
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
  File "/usr/local/lib/python2.1/site-packages/libxml2.py", line 1, in ?
    import libxml2mod
ImportError: /usr/local/lib/python2.1/site-packages/libxml2mod.so: 
undefined symbol: xmlNewTextReaderFilename

How can I get rid of this error?
I need this libs for a Zope product called CMFOODocument, so I am depening 
on python 2.1.3.

Thanx,
Juergen




From irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl  Tue Jul  8 14:08:44 2003
From: irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 20:08:44 +0200
Subject: unconventional path syntax (was Re: path module)
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1057680553.2687.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1057651032.22842.python-list@python.org>        <HBF.20030708keeu@bombur.uio.no> <mailman.1057680553.2687.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3f0b08ac$0$49109$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

Skip Montanaro wrote:

>     Hallvard> It's a long time since I used anything like that, but I think
>     Hallvard> Tops-20 filename paths looked like this:
> 
>     Hallvard>     device:<dir.dir.dir>file.ext;version
> 
>     Hallvard> where most components were optional.
> 
> which is (not too surprisingly) very similar to VMS:
> 
>     device:[dir.dir.dir]file.ext;version
> 
> Skip

Which the Amiga's version borrows (borrowed) heavily from:

device:dir/dir/dir/file    (no filename extensions)

The nifty part was that the <device:> could be the name
of a physical device (such as "DF0:" meaning "floppy drive 0",
or a user-defined logical device (such as "LIBS:").
The latter was usually called an "assign", and you could let
it point to *multiple* locations in your filesystem *at once*.

Sorry--way off topic here, but the above path syntax
brings back some good memories ;-)

--Irmen de Jong




From andy at wild-flower.co.uk  Wed Jul 23 18:27:56 2003
From: andy at wild-flower.co.uk (Andy Jewell)
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 23:27:56 +0100
Subject: help...
In-Reply-To: <000a01c3514d$3bbed680$6c00a8c0@ab.hsia.telus.net>
References: <000a01c3514d$3bbed680$6c00a8c0@ab.hsia.telus.net>
Message-ID: <200307232327.56525.andy@wild-flower.co.uk>

On Wednesday 23 Jul 2003 8:04 pm, HostDomains.ca- A Division of FordWeb.Inc 
wrote:
> we get the following error message when we try to login to our control
> panel for ensim....can you help
>
>       key
> Traceback (innermost last):
>   File C:\Program Files\Zope\lib\python\ZPublisher\Publish.py, line 162, in
> publish File C:\Program Files\Zope\lib\python\ZPublisher\BaseRequest.py,
> line 427, in traverse File .\base\AccessControl\CommonAccessControl.py,
> line 235, in validate (Object: RoleManager)
>   File .\base\AccessControl\CommonAccessControl.py, line 296, in
> _authenticate (Object: RoleManager)
>   File .\published\webhost\WebHostAccessControl.py, line 78, in
> userAuthenticate (Object: RoleManager)
>   File .\base\serverman\current\registrymgr.py, line 54, in value2dict
> NameError: key

The error is that the word 'key' is not a valid python statement: the file 
concerned is probably corrupted/truncated or has been modified by gremlins or 
inept users...

Open up file .\base\serverman\current\registrymgr.py, and post the surrounding 
code found near line 54 - then we'll have some context to work from.   Is 
this a custom app or part of Zope itself? Have you asked anyone on any of the 
Zope mailing lists or forums?

hth
-andyj




From daniel.dittmar at sap.com  Tue Jul 22 09:39:02 2003
From: daniel.dittmar at sap.com (Daniel Dittmar)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 15:39:02 +0200
Subject: Where can one get Python 1.4 and Pythonwin 1.0?
References: <41dqhv43pp8d8kb76r2u2sm3bnbbkic4cm@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <bfjepm$mpq$1@news1.wdf.sap-ag.de>

Richard Lee wrote:
> Hi. I need to test and document some really old software. For that, I
> have to install P 1.4 and Pwin  1.0 (the latter which is based on
> P1.4).

http://www.python.org/windows/pywin14.html

Daniel






From grante at visi.com  Thu Jul 17 15:31:20 2003
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 17 Jul 2003 19:31:20 GMT
Subject: Python Quiz
References: <mailman.1058359706.27031.python-list@python.org> <bf3kb4$2gh$1@news.wrc.xerox.com> <3F156952.AD24AAB8@engcorp.com> <3f156c23$0$166$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <X7ydnRCQKq4rdIuiXTWJjQ@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <3f16f988$0$159$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>

In article <X7ydnRCQKq4rdIuiXTWJjQ at comcast.com>, Terry Reedy wrote:

>> Yup. I found a lot of things in FORTRAN surprising.  Python is
>> so much nicer in that respect.  Though I was recently surprised
>> that the remove() method for lists uses "==" and not "is" to
>> determine what to remove.  It's documented that it works that
>> way. But, it wasn't what I excpected, and it took me a while to
>> figure out that it was using my class's __cmp__ method rather
>> than the object ID.
> 
> Given ints = [9, 99, 999, 9999] would it not surprise you even more if
> ints.remove(99) worked and ints.remove(999) did not, or even worse, if
> the behavior of ints.remove(99) depended on the implementation?

Yes, it would.

> (Similar examples apply to strings, where the implementation of
> interning and hence behavior based on identity *has* changed!)

I'm not claiming it's right, or even rational, but for
user-defined objects, I expected it to use "is".  Now I know
better, and am more careful when I impliment __cmp__.  I had
expected to be able to have two different objects that compared
equal.  And I also expected to be able to use list.remove() to
remove a specified object.  I had to give up one or the other.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  ... he dominates the
                                  at               DECADENT SUBWAY SCENE.
                               visi.com            



From tomg at em.ca  Wed Jul 16 20:04:36 2003
From: tomg at em.ca (Tom Goulet)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 00:04:36 -0000
Subject: hex to signed integer
Message-ID: <vhbq0kr6ftvr0e@corp.supernews.com>

Hello,

My question basically is:  What is the opposite of the following?
| "%08X" % -1

I want to convert a string of hexadecimal characters to the signed
integer they would have been before the <print> statement converted
them.  How do I do this in such a way that is compatible with Python
versions 1.5.2 through 2.4, and not machine-dependent?

This is my current best:
| struct.unpack("!l", \
| 	chr(string.atoi(hexbit[0:2], 16)) + \
| 	chr(string.atoi(hexbit[2:4], 16)) + \
| 	chr(string.atoi(hexbit[4:6], 16)) + \
| 	chr(string.atoi(hexbit[6:8], 16)))

Thanks in advance.
-- 
Tom Goulet, tomg at em.ca, D8BAD3BC, http://web.em.ca/~tomg/contact.html



From vincent_delft at yahoo.com  Sat Jul 26 19:01:45 2003
From: vincent_delft at yahoo.com (vincent_delft)
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 01:01:45 +0200
Subject: Web tool kit : pro - cons ?
References: <3f23003f$0$266$ba620e4c@reader0.news.skynet.be> <3f23034d$0$49103$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <3f230835$0$280$ba620e4c@reader0.news.skynet.be>

Irmen de Jong wrote:

> vincent_delft wrote:
> 
>> Is there a site who list the main charateristics of each of those Web
>> tool kit ?
> 
> Check out http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/moinmoin/WebProgramming
> 
> --Irmen de Jong


Waouuuww...  

So many different tools ....

Can I get some "guidelines" ?
My needs are :
- Build pages via templates (easy to split content and layout)
- My pages will be defined with "boxes".  I would like to have a tool that
can manage easely such "object".
- I will use PostgreSQL as backend.
- possibility to build very simple web site (<10 users) but big web sites
too ( > 1000 users). So I don't need a Apache/mod_Python, ... for small web
sites. CGIHTTPserver is enough. But CGIHTTPServer will not be able to
manage very high load.
 





From mis6 at pitt.edu  Fri Jul 18 08:54:40 2003
From: mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato)
Date: 18 Jul 2003 05:54:40 -0700
Subject: Co-routines
References: <g7xRa.305$fF.9914@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au>
Message-ID: <2259b0e2.0307180454.2e03f3a4@posting.google.com>

If really you want to play tricks with the source code, as Micheal
Spark is suggesting, you can avoid generators all togheter and 
"merge" the two functions by hand:

import inspect
def f1():
    print "1-1"
    print "1-2"
    print "1-3"

def f2():
    print "2-1"
    print "2-2"
    print "3-3"

def merge(f1,f2):
    s1=inspect.getsource(f1).splitlines()[1:]
    s2=inspect.getsource(f2).splitlines()[1:]
    lines=['def mergedfunction():\n']
    for line1,line2 in zip(s1,s2):
        lines.append(line1+'\n')
        lines.append(line2+'\n')
    dic={}; exec ''.join(lines) in dic
    return dic['mergedfunction']

f=merge(f1,f2)
f()
 
Output:
1-1
2-1
1-2
2-2
1-3
3-3

Exercise left for the reader: show the pittfalls of this approach.


               Michele



From _NOSPAM_nabugoon at moor.pe.kr_NOSPAM_  Sun Jul 27 14:28:00 2003
From: _NOSPAM_nabugoon at moor.pe.kr_NOSPAM_ (nabugoon)
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 03:28:00 +0900
Subject: wxPython wxListBox problem
Message-ID: <pan.2003.07.27.18.28.00.299031@moor.pe.kr_NOSPAM_>

How can I add 100000 lists in wxListBox?

When I tried, it stop because of overhead.

In demo application, Some Grid Control handles 1000000 data.

So I think it is possible that I add 100000 lists.

Do I have to use another control?

Any idea?

TIA.



From mfranklin1 at gatwick.westerngeco.slb.com  Thu Jul 24 10:52:51 2003
From: mfranklin1 at gatwick.westerngeco.slb.com (Martin Franklin)
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 15:52:51 +0100
Subject: Python scripting with Paint Shop Pro 8.0
In-Reply-To: <bupvhv4sgqtqlhlpvb8m05ksei86oke79u@4ax.com>
References: <kl3lhvgh5iillo5g9jvff92qkc8i2022nm@4ax.com>
 <mailman.1058790515.18332.python-list@python.org>
 <bupvhv4sgqtqlhlpvb8m05ksei86oke79u@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <200307241552.51201.mfranklin1@gatwick.westerngeco.slb.com>

On Thursday 24 July 2003 3:14 pm, Marc Wilson wrote:
> In comp.lang.python,  Martin Franklin
> <mfranklin1 at gatwick.westerngeco.slb.com> (Martin Franklin) wrote in
>
> <mailman.1058790515.18332.python-list at python.org>::
> |On Monday 21 July 2003 12:29, Marc Wilson wrote:
> |> In comp.lang.python,  Martin Franklin
> |> <mfranklin1 at gatwick.westerngeco.slb.com> (Martin Franklin) wrote in
> |>

<snip>

> |
> |# PIL IMPORTS
> |import Image, ImageEnhance
> |
> |im = Image.open("gnome-mixer.jpg")
> |
> |enhancer = ImageEnhance.Sharpness(im)
> |eim = enhancer.enhance(2.0)
> |eim.save("gnome-mixer-sharp.jpg", "JPEG")
> |
> |eim.thumbnail((10, 10))
> |eim.save("gnome-mixer-thumb.jpg", "JPEG")
> |
> |
> |And this is the first time I've used PIL.
>
> Wow. I've now knocked up a script that can be called in "batch" mode to
> convert and sharpen the image, and produce a thumbnail from it.
>
> All I need to do now is resize the image (to a fixed width) and we're
> laughing.  I'll press on.
>
> Oh, and- is there a way to overwrite text onto an image?  The site is a
> house-sales site, and we want to overwrite "SOLD" across the thumbnail once
> a property is sold.  It looks like I can do this with the ImageDraw module,
> but I can't see how to replicate what we do now with Image Robot, which is
> to write "SOLD" across the image diagonally (using the Add Watermark
> feature).  Any ideas?
>
>

Marc,

Looks like there could be (at least) two ways to do it...
The ImageDraw class allows you to draw onto an existing image like so:-


im = Image.open("gnome-mixer.jpg")
draw = ImageDraw.Draw(im)
draw.text((5, 5), "SOLD", fill="black") 


I have not investigated how (and if) you can rotate the text - I know you can 
change it's font etc...

The second way would be to paste a SOLD image onto the original image

im = Image.open("gnome-mixer.jpg")
im.paste(Image.open("sold.jpg"), (5, 5))


HTH
Martin





From intentionally at blank.co.uk  Sun Jul 13 17:08:07 2003
From: intentionally at blank.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 22:08:07 +0100
Subject: anything like C++ references?
References: <000301c348c7$3c501980$21795418@dell1700> <iqm2hvs77lhe1m71v9b579070khbf0uv0a@4ax.com> <berqqd$ad5$1@panix3.panix.com> <brs2hv8edfv0d1fch9mha8otuulajnkh0g@4ax.com> <bes0ps$l6$1@panix3.panix.com> <qi13hv4s21i8mtr2e600jumm54hqs7tppu@4ax.com> <mailman.1058125699.26133.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <sag3hv4vf884ed7ouu5cv8ofnopp9j1t12@4ax.com>

On 13 Jul 2003 14:48:09 -0500, Ian Bicking <ianb at colorstudy.com>
wrote:

>On Sun, 2003-07-13 at 12:51, Stephen Horne wrote:
>> On 13 Jul 2003 12:19:08 -0400, aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) wrote:
>> 
>> >Whether one can mutate a specific object is simply an
>> >attribute of that object, rather than requiring a different syntax.
>> >Trying to focus on the mutable/immutable distinction is what causes the
>> >mental blowup -- keep your eye on the objects and bindings and you're
>> >fine.
>> 
>> That's exactly it - you have to focus on whether an object is mutable
>> or immutable for that exact reason.
>
>No you don't!  Mutable and immutable objects act the same with respect
>to assignment.  However, because you cannot change a immutable object in
>place, to get a different value you must rebind.  You must *use* mutable
>and immutable objects differently -- but that is not surprising, because
>they are obviously very different objects!  You have to use integers and
>lists differently in part because one is mutable and the other isn't --
>but mostly because one is a number and the other is a list.  Different
>objects are different!
>
>Python is not novel in the way it deals with variables.  Scheme and
>Smalltalk, for instance, act exactly the same, as do many other
>dynamically typed languages (though there are different opinions on
>whether strings should be mutable -- but it's agreed there has to be
>some immutable string-like type, e.g. symbol).  The reason you are
>getting this reaction is that anyone that comes from those backgrounds
>thinks you are crazy, as does anyone who has embraced the Python model. 
>This isn't a funny little feature, this is the way all strong,
>dynamically typed languages work.

In computer science, a variable is a named binding to a value.
Operations on that variable may rebind it to a different value, but
values don't change behind your back. A pointer is, in effect, a value
which indirectly refers to another (possibly anonymous) variable. A
pointer is something you specifically request, and by doing so you
allow that the 'variable' being indirectly referenced may be modified
by something else that has no direct access to your pointer value (via
your named variable or via copys or pointers-to your pointer held
elsewhere).

Python should respect that.

If you claim that it does, then the values to which we currently
associate the type name 'list', 'dictionary' and 'class instance' are
badly named. They should be called 'pointer to list', 'pointer to
dictionary' and 'pointer to class instance'. And if you want to call
those references and make the dereferencing implicit, fine. Equally,
if you want to implement variable binding using references and using
copy-on-write to implement lazy copying (which does not violate the
standard computer-theory semantics of the binding to values - only the
binding to the implementation of values ie memory locations) then
equally fine.

However, even if the names included the 'pointer to' prefix so that
they actually described the real behaviours of the values, this still
raises two important questions...

1.  Why are the values of mutable objects always forced to be accessed
via a pointer (or reference or whatever)?

Note that I am referring to a computer science, semantic
pointer/reference/whatever - not to any pointers or references that
may be used in the implementation of the binding of variables to
values. The use, behind the scenes, of lazy copying as an optimisation
is irrelevant to the computer science principles.

2.  Why is there no way to reference an immutable object via a
pointer, other than stuffing it into a mutable object designed for
some purpose other than simple pointer behaviour?

The truth is that this system is arbitrary, and that therefore this
excuse is invalid.

>The problem you have is you are still thinking of variables as slots,
>which is not correct.  Variables in Python are bindings.  Assignment
>never copies anything, or creates anything except for changing the
>variable to point to a different address location.  *Every* Python
>assignment (a=b) is like the C assignment (a=&b).  

The problem is that you are confusing implementation with semantics.
The meanings of 'variable', 'value', 'assignment' etc are defined by
computer science. Whether you arbitrarily change the meaning of
'assignment' or whether you arbitrarily change the meaning of
'variable', it amounts to the same thing.

>
>> Tell me one case where it is sensible for a function to behave such
>> that whether the caller sees a change in a variable it passed as its
>> argument should depend on the type.
>
>Generally a function takes either immutable values (e.g., ints and
>floats) or mutable values for a certain argument.
>
>However, there is a class of operations which are generally operate in
>an immutable manner, that is, create copies of the objects instead of
>changing them in place.  So even though lists are mutable, list
>concatenation does not mutate, and in general adding two things (with +)
>will not mutate either object.  Immutable values, by design, do not have
>the same methods and operations as the mutable counterparts (or at least
>the mutating methods of those mutable objects).  *That* would be a
>design bug.

You miss my point. Your argument would equally apply to the need for
an integer-specific division operator, for instance. Its all about how
one function reacts in response to varying input. If you pass a
mutable value to a function which expects an immutable one, you get an
error. If you pass an immutable value to a function which expects a
mutable one, you get an error. There is no good reason for a function
to react to the distinction as evidenced by your own observation that
what actually happens (and what should happen) is that you have two
distinct variants of the function.

>> Tell me one case where an object storing values should care about
>> callers mutating values it holds *only* for certain types.
>
>Objects don't *store* values, they *refer* to values.  You are still
>thinking like you're in C (or C++).  This is why you are having a
>problem.

No it is not. I'm thinking in terms of computer science, in which
terms like 'variable', 'value' and 'assignment' are abstract concepts
independent of the way in which they are implemented in a programming
language.

One way or the other, Python is currently choosing not to respect the
computer science definition of those terms. It may have historic and
backward-compatability reasons, but that does not change the facts.
This deviation from computer science definitions, whatever the excuse,
is arbitrary, confusing and error prone. That is my problem.




From skip at pobox.com  Wed Jul  2 17:13:22 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 16:13:22 -0500
Subject: Remote db connections possible with DCOracle2?
Message-ID: <16131.19186.190625.679324@montanaro.dyndns.org>

Connections to remote Oracle databases doesn't seem possible with DCOracle2.
I have no problem making remote connections using Perl's DBI::Oracle
package, so I know it's possible in theory.  Is this capability available in
DCOracle2 but just not documented perhaps?

Thx,

Skip





From tjreedy at udel.edu  Tue Jul 29 17:18:20 2003
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 17:18:20 -0400
Subject: inverse of the zip function
References: <9sBVa.12998$o%2.6289@sccrnsc02>
Message-ID: <CvadnbbHD-ADebuiXTWJjA@comcast.com>

"David C. Fox" <davidcfox at post.harvard.edu> wrote in message
news:9sBVa.12998$o%2.6289 at sccrnsc02...
> Is there a function which takes a list of tuples and returns a list
of
> lists made up of the first element of each tuple, the second element
of
> each tuple, etc.?
>
> In other words, the the inverse of the built-in zip function?

Go to
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&group=comp.lang.python
enter 'zip inverse', and check search Python only.

TJR





From mmuller at enduden.spam.filter.com  Fri Jul 25 13:19:36 2003
From: mmuller at enduden.spam.filter.com (Michael Muller)
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 13:19:36 -0400
Subject: Static typing
Message-ID: <LvdUa.905$DU.696@fe12.atl2.webusenet.com>

Is there currently any plan to introduce static typing in any future
version of Python?  (I'm not entirely sure that "static typing" is the right
term: what I'm talking about is the declaration of types for variables,
parameters and function return values).

I know there was a "types SIG" which introduced several proposals, but it
expired quite a while ago, and I was wondering whether whether some
consensus has been reached on the subject or if it has just been shelved
indefinitely.

-- 
Remove the spam and filter components to get my e-mail address.




From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Jul  3 11:32:45 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 11:32:45 -0400
Subject: Reading an image file data.........
References: <mailman.1057240207.12496.python-list@python.org> <be1gml$p77$1@news.rol.ru>
Message-ID: <3F044C9D.CE43D5F4@engcorp.com>

Egor Bolonev wrote:
> 
> [Sorry, skipped]

That's twice I've seen you use this... what does it mean?



From grobinson at transpose.com  Wed Jul 30 10:08:27 2003
From: grobinson at transpose.com (Gary Robinson)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 10:08:27 -0400
Subject: bisect uses __cmp__()?
Message-ID: <BB4D499B.2AED6%grobinson@transpose.com>

[Tim Peters]
> Well, it doesn't use __cmp__ directly now, and never has:  it uses Python's
> infix "<" operator.  While not documented, it's deliberate that bisect
> *only* uses "<", so that instances of a class implementing only __lt__ can
> use bisect.

OK, but why is it undocumented that bisect uses it, and that CPython's
list.sort() uses it? I still don't know if I can write code that is based
using __lt__ to define a sort order and be justified in assuming it will
work in the future.

I can't see much downside in making that behavior well-defined in the
docs...?

 
--Gary

-- 
Putting http://wecanstopspam.org in your email helps it pass through
overzealous spam filters.

Gary Robinson
CEO
Transpose, LLC
grobinson at transpose.com
207-942-3463
http://www.transpose.com
http://radio.weblogs.com/0101454






From hokiegal99 at hotmail.com  Tue Jul 22 09:45:49 2003
From: hokiegal99 at hotmail.com (hokieghal99)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 09:45:49 -0400
Subject: Search for a string in binary files
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1058840314.10448.python-list@python.org>
References: <bfhldv$lb$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <mailman.1058840314.10448.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bfjf6d$1f3$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>

Fran?ois Pinard wrote:
> import glob
> for name in glob.glob('*.xls'):
>     if file(name, 'rb').read().find('Microsoft Excel') >= 0:
>         print "Found in", name
> 

Thanks for the example guys. One last question: does grep actually open 
files when it searches them? And, would it be more efficent (faster) to 
just call grep from python to do the searching?




From sybrenUSE at YOURthirdtower.imagination.com  Wed Jul 30 02:43:31 2003
From: sybrenUSE at YOURthirdtower.imagination.com (Sybren Stuvel)
Date: 30 Jul 2003 06:43:31 GMT
Subject: while (assignment):
References: <slrnbicopb.6gh.sybrenUSE@sybren.thirdtower.com> <vie6s6og1ddg92@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <slrnbieq4q.86l.sybrenUSE@sybren.thirdtower.com>

John Roth enlightened us with:
> For most purposes, there is. Just use a for loop!  As long as the
> source behaves like an iterator, the for loop will automatically
> assign each result.

How's that for performance? I guess I'll have to take a look at the
MySQLdb package source code to see how the resultset code functions. I
hope it calls fetchone() on each call to next() - AFAIK that's more
efficient (let the DB ponder what the next row will be while my
program ponders what to do with the information, and then exchange the
new tuple)

Sybren
-- 
The problem with the world is stupidity. Not saying there should be a
capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the
safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself? 



From giva at users.sourceforge.net  Wed Jul 30 20:52:38 2003
From: giva at users.sourceforge.net (Gisle Vanem)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 02:52:38 +0200
Subject: How to get Windows physical RAM using python?
References: <bg90lh$bkp$1@news3.bu.edu> <bg92o2$onr$1@news3.bu.edu> <ad052e5c.0307301608.10372099@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3f2868d9$1@news.broadpark.no>

"Dan Bishop" <danb_83 at yahoo.com> wrote:

> The easiest way is to parse the output from $WINDIR/system32/mem.exe .
>
>     memTotals = os.popen('mem | find "total"').readlines()
>     conventionalMemory = int(memTotals[0].split()[0])
>     extendedMemory = int(memTotals[1].split()[0])

Duh! That program reports the memory available to 16-bit
programs.

--gv





From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Fri Jul 18 09:09:25 2003
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 18 Jul 2003 09:09:25 -0400
Subject: Threading Pool Event()
References: <0tRRa.212$vD1.8077@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au>
Message-ID: <bf8ri5$cs7$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <0tRRa.212$vD1.8077 at nnrp1.ozemail.com.au>,
Graeme Matthew <gsmatthew at ozemail.com.au> wrote:
>
>I just cannot seem to find any documentation that shows an example of
>using the factory method Event() in threads. I have a thread pool and
>if there are no jobs in a Queue I want them to wait for something to
>be inserted. When a job is inserted I want to send an Event, the first
>thread that picks it up runs with the job the rest wait for another
>insert Event.

Given that you're already using a Queue, there is no, repeat NO, reason
for using an Event.  Just have your threads block on the Queue.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

A: No.
Q: Is top-posting okay?



From p-abel at t-online.de  Tue Jul 29 17:00:56 2003
From: p-abel at t-online.de (Peter Abel)
Date: 29 Jul 2003 14:00:56 -0700
Subject: while (assignment):
References: <slrnbicopb.6gh.sybrenUSE@sybren.thirdtower.com>
Message-ID: <13a533e8.0307291300.be1423a@posting.google.com>

Sybren Stuvel <sybrenUSE at YOURthirdtower.imagination.com> wrote in message news:<slrnbicopb.6gh.sybrenUSE at sybren.thirdtower.com>...
> Hi there,
> 
> Is it possible to use an assignment in a while-loop? I'd like to do

No I guess.
This is typical C, to use an assignment and work with its result
in the same statement.
One famous representative is the following which is the reason
for many faults:
if (a=somethting)
{
...
}

what means in pyhton:

a=something
if a:
 ...

 

> something like "loop while there is still something to be read, and if
> there is, put it in this variable". I've been a C programmer since I
> was 14, so a construct like:
> 
> while info = mydbcursor.fetchone():
> 	print "Information: "+str(info)
> 

The following should work:

info = mydbcursor.fetchone()
while info:
  print "Information: "+str(info)
  info = mydbcursor.fetchone()


> comes to mind. Unfortunately, this doesn't work. Is there a similar
> construct in python?
> 
> Sybren

Regards
Peter



From duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk  Thu Jul 17 11:37:23 2003
From: duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk (Duncan Booth)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 15:37:23 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Co-routines
References: <g7xRa.305$fF.9914@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au> <3F16A34A.5742F54F@engcorp.com> <pBxRa.308$fF.9875@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au>
Message-ID: <Xns93BBA8911E1D9duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

<thewrights at ozemail.com.au> wrote in
news:pBxRa.308$fF.9875 at nnrp1.ozemail.com.au: 

> OK. Thanks.  I was just giving some simple examples...but I hope this
> is better:
> 
> From the python grammar:
> 
>     funcdef    ::= "def" funcname "(" [parameter_list] ")" ":" suite
> 
> I want the statements in <suite> to be executed on a statement by
> statement basis, with no particular restrictions on *what* those
> statements are. It's the execution stepping I'm interested in... the
> I/O in my example was just that. I understand that there will be all
> the problems on contention/race etc (just like if the functions were
> going in separate threads) 

The only way I can think to implement this 'easily' would be to use the 
parser module to parse your source code, then walk the parse tree looking 
for statements inside one of your functions and add a yield_stmt after 
every other statement. Then compile the tree into bytecode and execute it.

Of course your users may be surprised to find that they cannot directly 
call any of their functions from another function. You could do a further 
rewrite on the tree to convert obvious calls to your users' functions into 
for loops.

Why?

-- 
Duncan Booth                                             duncan at rcp.co.uk
int month(char *p){return(124864/((p[0]+p[1]-p[2]&0x1f)+1)%12)["\5\x8\3"
"\6\7\xb\1\x9\xa\2\0\4"];} // Who said my code was obscure?



From ricardo.b at zmail.pt  Thu Jul 17 21:59:39 2003
From: ricardo.b at zmail.pt (Ricardo Bugalho)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 02:59:39 +0100
Subject: Unicode question
References: <mailman.1058456911.22551.python-list@python.org> <65m1yubd.fsf@python.net> <mailman.1058486849.6595.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2003.07.18.01.59.38.588766@zmail.pt>

On Fri, 18 Jul 2003 02:07:13 +0200, Gerhard H?ring wrote:

> Thomas Heller wrote:
>> Gerhard H?ring <gh at ghaering.de> writes:
>> 
>> 
>>> >>> u"???"
>>>u'\x84\x94\x81'
>>>
>>>(Python 2.2.3/2.3b2; sys.getdefaultencoding() == "ascii")
>>>
>>>Why does this work?
>>>
>>>Does Python guess which encoding I mean? I thought Python should
>>>refuse to guess :-)
>> 
>> 
>> I stumbled over this yesterday, and it seems it is (at least) partially
>> answered by PEP 263:
>> 
>>     In Python 2.1, Unicode literals can only be written using the
>>     Latin-1 based encoding "unicode-escape". This makes the programming
>>     environment rather unfriendly to Python users who live and work in
>>     non-Latin-1 locales such as many of the Asian countries. Programmers
>>     can write their 8-bit strings using the favorite encoding, but are
>>     bound to the "unicode-escape" encoding for Unicode literals.
>> 
>> I have the impression that this is undocumented on purpose, because you
>> should not write unescaped non-ansi characters into the source file
>> (with 'unknown' encoding).
> 
> I agree that using latin1 as default is bad. If there's an encoding 
> cookie in the 2.3+ source file then this encoding could be used.
> -- Gerhard

You can use string literals in any encoding like this:
'string in my favorite encoding'.decode('my favorite encoding'). 
Note that the lack of the u prefix. Not very confortable though..
u'string' ends up doing the same as 'string'.decode('latin1').
It doesn't work for docstrings though..

I'm not sure for what you mean about encoding cookie, but I like the idea
of each source file having some element that defines the encoding used to
process string literals.
Either that or we define the Python code must be written in UTF-8. But
that would break lots of code.. :D

-- 
	Ricardo




From donn at drizzle.com  Wed Jul 16 00:01:41 2003
From: donn at drizzle.com (Donn Cave)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 04:01:41 -0000
Subject: anything like C++ references?
References: <b8c3hvsesjoumiboobml3nsnajtha99mp1@4ax.com>  <mailman.1058129901.28248.python-list@python.org>  <plk3hv0s1m2egf4s34jo6vjedk0q8r2mu9@4ax.com>  <hflQa.48826$wk6.12216@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net>  <rp94hvc8fg6h91oe7ctqq9jn9ku3nlud1k@4ax.com>  <f0f51c80.0307150945.3f19e48b@posting.google.com>  <qlq8hv8e7a5177o250c2fhvg9hv2lhfa15@4ax.com> <20030715200433927-0600@news.xmission.com>
Message-ID: <1058328099.572993@yasure>

Quoth Adam Ruth <owski at hotmail.com>:
...
| In Python, there is no situation where "you really can't avoid pointers".  

That's trivially true, no such situation can exist because that
Python can't be coded.  I'll repeat an example that I proposed
a couple days ago, though:  user implemented sequences could be
implemented with a single simple indexing function, returning
a pointer/target/whatever;  Python could assign directly to that,
making "seq[i] = x" the same kind of operation as and automatically
symmetrical with "x = seq[i]".

It can't be done without pointers, as far as I can see.  You may not
care if it can be done, but I think you'd agree that "there is no
situation that I care about where you really can't avoid pointers"
would be kind of a lame version of your assertion.

	Donn Cave, donn at drizzle.com



From heikowu at ceosg.de  Mon Jul 28 14:43:10 2003
From: heikowu at ceosg.de (Heiko Wundram)
Date: 28 Jul 2003 20:43:10 +0200
Subject: Python on a USB storage device?
In-Reply-To: <VXcVa.28$HY3.42617@news.uswest.net>
References: <VXcVa.28$HY3.42617@news.uswest.net>
Message-ID: <1059417790.623.17.camel@d168.stw.stud.uni-saarland.de>

On Mon, 2003-07-28 at 19:27, Kevin Altis wrote:
> Does anyone have experience running Python from a USB storage device?

I don't have experience running Python from an USB storage device, but
I've been using a 1GB USB-Stick to carry around a Knoppix distribution
with me, for those PCs which can boot from USB and don't have a CD-ROM
drive (there are quite a few where I work as sys-admin). USB works well
here, so I guess if you use USB to carry around a Python installation,
this should work well too.

USB 2.0 doesn't matter, as the USB-sticks I know of don't even support
it (the normal transmission speed of those sticks is an average 5 MB/s,
and that's way below USB 1.1 max speed of 11 MB/s).

So, I guess you should be successful with a stick for running Python
too...

Just my 5 cents.

Heiko Wundram.





From vze4rx4y at verizon.net  Wed Jul 30 04:25:40 2003
From: vze4rx4y at verizon.net (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 08:25:40 GMT
Subject: variable assignment in "while" loop
References: <F7DB8D13DB61D511B6FF00B0D0F062330592C8E3@mail.hebmex.com> <mailman.1059495458.21852.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <8iLVa.2654$Jz2.2272@nwrdny02.gnilink.net>

> >>Spot on, with one (minor) correction. With a for loop you have to
> >>iterate over the results of a call to a method on the cursor, e.g.;
> >>
> >>for info in mydbcursor.fetchall():
> >>     print "Information:", info
> >>
> >>You could replace fetchall() with fetchmany() or, if you are feeling
> >>contrary, fetchone() ;-)
> >
> >
> > Are you sure about this?  Because, if you have to iterate
> > through .fetchall()  (for example), then the cursor isn't
> > actually an iterable object, the result of fetchall() is
> > (it's a list, which is iterable), same goes for fetchmany();
> > BUT, if you iterate over the results of fetchone() then
> > you're gonna do a columnwise iteration over a single row.
> >
> > So... anyone... do cursors have an __iter__() method?
> > I don't have a DB module at hand to check it out...
>
> Technically, cursor objects are not iterators, and the DB-API
> specification has this to say about the various methods that return data;
>
> """
> .fetchone()
>
> Fetch the next row of a query result set, returning a
> single sequence, or None when no more data is
> available.

Remember, the second form of the iter() function makes
it easy to build a real iterator here and a fast one too:

    for row in iter(mydbcursor.fetchone, None):
          print row



> .fetchall()
>
> Fetch all (remaining) rows of a query result, returning
> them as a sequence of sequences (e.g. a list of tuples).
> """
>
> Which means that the cursor object itself is not an iterator, and the
> methods need only return a sequence (or sequence of sequences).


Right, so if you want iterator performance (just-in-time production,
minimal memory consumption, better cache utilization, etc), then use
fetchone wrapped in iter() as shown above.


Raymond Hettinger





From piet at cs.uu.nl  Sat Jul 12 06:43:49 2003
From: piet at cs.uu.nl (Piet van Oostrum)
Date: 12 Jul 2003 12:43:49 +0200
Subject: Maxmium bufsize using open2?
References: <bejc0u$e0u$1@news.tudelft.nl>
Message-ID: <wzbrw081p6.fsf@nono.cs.uu.nl>

>>>>> Maurice <bertvansesamstraat at hotmail.com> (M) wrote:

M> Dear all,
M> I've a problem using popen2 when using large files.
M> When I use small input files everything works well but when I feed large
M> inputfile to the pipe nothing happens. Is there a maximum bufsize for using
M> the pipe. The code I use is written down here below. Do I need to specify a
M> waittime between line 4 and 5 ?


M> o,i =popen2('command '))
M> fh=open(os.path.join(self.dirname, self.filename),'r')
M> i.write(fh.read())
M> i.close()
M> self.StringData=o.read()
M> o.close()
	
With popen2 (and popen3 and popen4) you can manage yourself in a deadlock.
This is apparently happening to you. The problem is that the O.S. has only
a limited buffering in the pipes. Now when the command generates much
output and the buffer is full, the command blocks until you have read some
of its output. But you are still busy feeding it more input. A waittime
doesn't solve it. The only solutions are: using different threads for
input and output, or redirecting either stdin or stdout to a file.

I don't think the buffersize parameter will solve it, because this
specifies the in-process buffer, not the O.S. buffer (I think). The
in-process buffer will be flushed by i.close() so you are back to the
situation without buffer.
-- 
Piet van Oostrum <piet at cs.uu.nl>
URL: http://www.cs.uu.nl/~piet [PGP]
Private email: P.van.Oostrum at hccnet.nl



From donn at u.washington.edu  Wed Jul 16 17:33:07 2003
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 14:33:07 -0700
Subject: anything like C++ references?
References: <rp94hvc8fg6h91oe7ctqq9jn9ku3nlud1k@4ax.com> <f0f51c80.0307150945.3f19e48b@posting.google.com> <qlq8hv8e7a5177o250c2fhvg9hv2lhfa15@4ax.com> <20030715200433927-0600@news.xmission.com> <1058328099.572993@yasure> <20030716081156943-0600@news.xmission.com> <donn-6E63A0.10284316072003@nntp1.u.washington.edu> <20030716123907246-0600@news.xmission.com> <donn-F604B9.12121916072003@nntp3.u.washington.edu> <20030716142716509-0600@news.xmission.com>
Message-ID: <donn-708BC2.14330716072003@nntp3.u.washington.edu>

In article <20030716142716509-0600 at news.xmission.com>,
 Adam Ruth <owski at hotmail.com> wrote:
> In <donn-F604B9.12121916072003 at nntp3.u.washington.edu> Donn Cave  wrote:
> > In article <20030716123907246-0600 at news.xmission.com>,
...
> > OK, there really aren't any situations where you can't avoid
> > pointers ... so you're ready with a solution to the problem
> > I posed above?
...
> As for your problem on the subscript operator, I think my solution is: 
> there's no problem.  Having the get and set asymetric is preferrable, in 
> my view.  For example, I use it in a number of places where I cache the 
> set operation:

So after all it should be "there aren't any situations that I care
about where you can't avoid pointers."  That's fine, it's really
where we all come down in the end - life is too short to worry
about solving problems you don't care about.  One should be clear
about it, though.

   Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu



From mcfletch at rogers.com  Sun Jul 20 12:10:45 2003
From: mcfletch at rogers.com (Mike C. Fletcher)
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 12:10:45 -0400
Subject: properties + types, implementing meta-class desciptors elegantly?
In-Reply-To: <2259b0e2.0307200652.131ed45e@posting.google.com>
References: <mailman.1058532630.7342.python-list@python.org> <bfa97g$s5j$0@216.39.172.122> <2259b0e2.0307190640.56266017@posting.google.com> <mailman.1058629890.30475.python-list@python.org> <2259b0e2.0307200652.131ed45e@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3F1ABF05.8030505@rogers.com>

Michele Simionato wrote:

>"Mike C. Fletcher" <mcfletch at rogers.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.1058629890.30475.python-list at python.org>...
><snip>
>
>As others before me, I am not sure of what you are trying to do
>and why you are doing so. I use descriptors in this way:
>
>class o(object):
>    class p( object ): # descriptor class
>        def __set__( self, client, value, *args, **named ):
>            print '__set__', self, client, value, args, named
>            self.v=value
>        def __get__(self,obj,cls):
>            return self.v
>    v = p()
>
You are aware that you have just created a class-attribute, rather than 
an instance attribute?  The property/descriptor object exists within the 
class 'o' namespace, not the instance namespace.  Try creating two 
instances of your o class and setting v on both of them.  There is one 
'p' instance "self" to which you are assigning/retrieving an attribute 
for all instances of o.  Creating class variables is certainly a valid 
use for descriptors, but I'm not sure if that's really what you were 
trying to do.

What I'm looking for, in terms of your code, is a method/function which 
would do the proper thing instead of using "self.v=value", (or rather 
client.__dict__['v'] = value (i.e. store the value in the client 
dictionary)) for all of the major built-in types, such as 
object-instances, classes (and object-instances with slots would be 
nice).  To the best of my knowledge, such a function does not exist 
within Python; for instances, simply doing instance.__dict__[ key ] = 
value is sufficient, but classes do not have a method exposed AFAIK 
which allows an equivalent setting of a value *without* triggering the 
descriptor machinery for the given key.

I'm creating a slightly more involved pattern, by the way:

class plugin( type ):
    someHelperClass = common.ClassByNameProperty(
       "someHelperClass", """Documentation for this meta-property""",
       defaultValue = "some.package.module.ClassName",
       setDefaultOnGet = 0,
    )

class MyWorkingPlugIn( myBaseImplementation ):
    __metaclass__ = plugin

instance = MyWorkingPlugIn()

Where the properties of the plugin meta-class are providing all sorts of 
services for the MyWorkingPlugIn class, such as allowing it to find 
"someHelperClass" related to the plug-in system while allowing that 
property to be set manually if desired, or automatically calculating a 
global identifier if the plug-in doesn't currently have a global 
identifier.  The value is primarily that the meta-class will use exactly 
the same mechanisms as the rest of the system, and so will be readily 
dealt with by the property-based meta-application system. 

There are certainly other ways to get around the particular problem (I 
have already done that), I'm looking for the *elegant* solution to the 
*general* case.

Enjoy,
Mike

_______________________________________
  Mike C. Fletcher
  Designer, VR Plumber, Coder
  http://members.rogers.com/mcfletch/







From gsmatthew at ozemail.com.au  Thu Jul  3 08:24:27 2003
From: gsmatthew at ozemail.com.au (Graeme Matthew)
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 22:24:27 +1000
Subject: Python is a gem, you need to keep pushing it ....
Message-ID: <0gVMa.126$a%1.9289@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au>

Hi all, I just wanted to tell someone :-)

I was previously a perl programmer and have been a visual basic frustrated
developer for a number of years, only for the reason that corporates are so
obsessed with using proprietary marketing focused computer languages and not
using true computer science oriented solutions written by computer science
engineers and not a marketing panel. The amount of frustration I have
experienced using visual basic is unbelievable and most of these programs
could have been easily written in python and solved in half the time. I
looked at ruby, it is a beautiful language too but there are still too many
scarce libraries compared to python. Perl, I still like perl but its syntax
requires a photographic memory when coming back to some old code.

I have now taken on a large project outside of work for another company,
initially they, yes wait for it, wanted a VB client / server solution. It
took me lot of hard motivation and they have now totally changed their
focus, a web based python solution it now is ! who said one cannot market
linux, python and mysql ? I hope to have the project completed in 6 months
and I am looking forward to adding it to one of python's success stories.

So the whole point of this email is that if a lot of you are hitting the
same frustration as myself where managers (and people who think Microsoft
invented everything well except a watch you need to recharge every 2 days
:-)  keep on insisting on developing in the basket case Microsoft Languages
such as VB (I am not mentioning C or C++ as it does not fall into this
bracket)  then dont give up, keep up the evangelism, as someday they will
give in .... and let you prove it too them

Cheers







From tim.one at comcast.net  Tue Jul 15 19:15:16 2003
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 19:15:16 -0400
Subject: FCNTL module deprecation warning
In-Reply-To: <1ED4ECF91CDED24C8D012BCF2B034F1302644476@its-xchg4.massey.ac.nz>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCKEJLEOAB.tim.one@comcast.net>

[Tony Meyer]
> My question is then why the 2.3b2 Windows binary bothers installing
> the FCNTL.py file.

Because it would be enormously more bother to special-case it.  The Wise
script that generates the installer simply specifies that

    *.py

should be copied from the Lib directory in my build tree.  The only way to
exclude FCNTL.py would be to explicitly list every other .py file in the
Wise script.  That would never remain in synch with new .py files that
should be included, so "screw it" is my Professional Judgment <wink>.

> fnctl isn't available on Windows anyway (going by
> the docs and that there isn't a fnctl.py file installed).
>
> Shouldn't the correct behaviour be to raise an ImportError if a
> windows user tries to import fcntl or FCNTL?

It does for me:

>>> import fcntl
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
ImportError: No module named fcntl
>>> import FCNTL
C:\CODE\PYTHON\lib\FCNTL.py:7: DeprecationWarning: the FCNTL module is
deprecated; please use fcntl
  DeprecationWarning)
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
  File "C:\CODE\PYTHON\lib\FCNTL.py", line 11, in ?
    from fcntl import *
ImportError: No module named fcntl
>>>

I get that under Python 2.2.3 and 2.3b2.





From skip at pobox.com  Fri Jul 11 08:21:46 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 07:21:46 -0500
Subject: Python Documentation
In-Reply-To: <221d8dbe.0307110252.7d44b63a@posting.google.com>
References: <221d8dbe.0307110252.7d44b63a@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <16142.43994.777263.353053@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    srijit> I do not see any discussion of new style classes in tutorial
    srijit> section of Python 2.3b1 core documentation. I hope that I have
    srijit> not missed any section.

The extra features available in new-style classes don't really strike me as
introductory material.  The tutorial is not meant to be an exhaustive
introduction to the language.  In addition, new-style classes are a very new
feature of the language.  It will take some time for the tutorial to catch
up.  If you'd like to update it, feel free.

Skip




From udo.gleich at web.de  Tue Jul 29 04:03:51 2003
From: udo.gleich at web.de (Udo Gleich)
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 10:03:51 +0200
Subject: mixin class
References: <3F24F8D2.E1ADFB08@web.de> <2259b0e2.0307281355.34725f83@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3F262A67.57E4762C@web.de>

Hi,

> Why not simply
> 
>  class K1(object):
>      pass
> 
>  class K2(object):
>      pass
> 
>  mixed =  type("K1_K2", (K1, K1), {})
>  new_instance = mixed()
> 
>  print new_instance
> 

almost.

If K1 has a constructor that takes arguments you get an
error when you call the constructor of the derived class
without an argument. Why do I want to do that? Usually
one would say that I should know the arguments of the
constructor of the derived class.

What I want to do is take *two objects*, derive from both
their classes, make a new object and combine the state of
the old objects.

I dont know if that is a good idea. I would appreciate comments
on the following solution. Especially the use of the dummy_init
function as an empty constructor looks not quite right to me.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

def dummy_init(self):
    pass

class Mixin:

    __shared_state = {"classes":{}}
    
    def __init__(self):
        self.__dict__ = self.__shared_state
        
    def mix(self, original_instance, mixin_instance):
        original_class = original_instance.__class__
        mixin_class = mixin_instance.__class__
        name = original_class.__name__ + '_' + mixin_class.__name__
        mixed = self.classes.get(name,
                                 type(name,
                                      (mixin_class, original_class),
                                      {"__init__": dummy_init}))
        new_instance = mixed()
        
        new_instance.__dict__.update(mixin_instance.__dict__)
        new_instance.__dict__.update(original_instance.__dict__)

        try:
            new_instance.late_init_original()
        except AttributeError:
            pass
        try:
            new_instance.late_init_mixin()
        except AttributeError:
            pass
        return new_instance
    
class K1(object):
    def __init__(self, a):
        self.a = a
 
class K2(object):
    def late_init_mixin(self):
        self.b = self.a + 1


mixer = Mixin()

new_instance = mixer.mix(K1(3), K2())

print new_instance
print new_instance.a, new_instance.b

-------------------------------------------------------------------------



From sfb at alysseum.com  Mon Jul 28 14:01:03 2003
From: sfb at alysseum.com (Simon Bayling)
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 18:01:03 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Debugging Python ?
References: <mailman.1059403181.10256.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Xns93C6C22504202k23vzqpmre@194.106.32.13>

PythonWin and Boa Constructor both have step-through debuggers.

> I'd be happy to hear your techniques to debug python programs.
> Is there any interactive debugging environment by any chance ?
> 

Simon.




From usenet at soraia.com  Mon Jul 21 13:13:00 2003
From: usenet at soraia.com (Joe Francia)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 17:13:00 GMT
Subject: global variable
In-Reply-To: <bfgvmo$jo7$1@news.uni-kl.de>
References: <bfgvmo$jo7$1@news.uni-kl.de>
Message-ID: <vaVSa.692904$mA4.97458@news.easynews.com>

Tom wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I have one "master" program which calls a small program. In this small 
> program I want to work with a value from the "master" program. But I 
> always get this error: NameError: global name 'T' is not defined
> 
> How can I define a global variable?
> 
> Thanks for your help.
> Regards, Tom

You can't (well, there is a way, but you probably don't want to be 
messing with that).

By "program" I assume you mean "module".  You can do something like:

#master.py
T = 'Some value'

#small.py
import master
doSomething(master.T)

However, if master.py is also importing small.py, you'll get a circular 
reference, which may cause hard to track bugs, in which case it's best 
to have a third module for common (global) variables (and functions, if 
you'd like), and have both master.py and small.py import that.

jf




From me at home.net  Thu Jul  3 19:19:21 2003
From: me at home.net (J-P)
Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 19:19:21 -0400
Subject: Why so many references to global variables?
In-Reply-To: <yfs1xx7i88o.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk>
References: <aD%Ma.5942$bD1.693184@news20.bellglobal.com> <yfs1xx7i88o.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <0S2Na.6305$bD1.721957@news20.bellglobal.com>

Alexander Schmolck wrote:
> J-P <me at home.net> writes:
> 
> 
>>It appears that every time the interpreter tests for
>>the value of 'myflag', it keeps a reference to it.
> 
> 
> What makes you think so? This seems rather unlikely to me (not that the
> references themselves should eat your memory anyway!). 

Well, sys.getrefcount() does tell me there are 3 millions  references
to it and other globals. Even though this doesn't eat up all my memory
(how large is a reference object in Python?), I definitely think there's 
something fishy with keeping that many references to global variables 
that appear here and there in the script.



> Chances are, the C extension code doesn't work correctly (C extensions to
> python code have to do memory management by hand; increasing and decreasing
> reference counts for the python objects they deal with as appropriate; so if a
> bit of code forgets to decrease the refcount, the object will stay alive
> forever; my guess would be that this it what happens here).

Might be, but the ref count for the objects interacting with the C 
library are pretty much what I expect them to be, i.e. a few dozens.
I don't think there are other memory leaks in the bindings to the
library. I've passed it through Purify a couple of times and everything
seems clean.


J-P




From hokiegal99 at hotmail.com  Wed Jul  9 10:50:03 2003
From: hokiegal99 at hotmail.com (Tubby Tudor)
Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 10:50:03 -0400
Subject: regexp and filenames
In-Reply-To: <3F0BF9B4.7186537C@hotmail.com>
References: <befn47$5u4$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <3F0BF9B4.7186537C@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <beha2s$g2p$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>

Alan Kennedy wrote:

> Another poster has shown how to navigate directory hierarchies, so
> I'll leave it to you to combine the two code snippets.

Thanks for the advice Alan. I've learend a lot. Python is turning out to 
be more flexible than I thought it would be.




From paul at boddie.net  Fri Jul  4 06:14:09 2003
From: paul at boddie.net (Paul Boddie)
Date: 4 Jul 2003 03:14:09 -0700
Subject: A story about Python... sort of
References: <3f03f430$0$97222$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk> <KwWMa.3332$Aw.3042@twister.nyc.rr.com> <3F043B22.19FE79AE@engcorp.com> <FiZMa.2097$_k2.145814@nnrp1.ptd.net> <dGZMa.5172$351.1725266@twister.nyc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <23891c90.0307040214.776f31f@posting.google.com>

"Max Khesin" <max at cNOvSisiPonAtecMh.com> wrote in message news:<dGZMa.5172$351.1725266 at twister.nyc.rr.com>...
>
> I am not sure where we disagree. This is exactly my point. The statement
> "
> Engineering Lessons
> -------------------
>     1. C/C++ is no longer a viable development language
> "
> is pure rubbish. C++ is still great for certain kinds of projects, and there
> are lots of open-source and proprietary projects to prove this.

I wouldn't agree with you unreservedly here. In many respects, the
choice of C++ for projects is often an educational problem with the
developers - people choose it because it's what they know, potentially
not very well in many cases. So one could say that it's really
something they just know something about - it seems like the
right/safe choice, presumably because their peers/acquaintances who
are just as badly informed tell them so.

Those of us who are used to more high-level languages would think
twice about writing a large application using a language/library
combination without decent (ie. modern) support for memory management,
for example. I can imagine that many developers find it challenging
and even rewarding to think up interesting schemes for allocating and
freeing memory - perhaps they even think that this (and lots of other
unnecessary wheel reinvention) is what programming is all about.
Personally, I'd rather get on with implementing the actual system
concerned.

So, I'd rephrase the original statement: C/C++ are frequently
suboptimal choices for application development. Why? Poor support for
near-essential features found in contemporary languages combined with
the absence of timely, effective standardisation of useful library
functionality.

Paul



From raims at dot.com  Sun Jul 20 06:11:22 2003
From: raims at dot.com (Lawrence Oluyede)
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 12:11:22 +0200
Subject: object as a reserved keyword
References: <vtnkhvoqcet2bgmeidae1st46m7q9sr1p3@4ax.com> <3F1A633B.98456C76@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <ogqkhv0a3ecl4fo4ktmma86gm5t9vkgn6s@4ax.com>

On Sun, 20 Jul 2003 02:39:07 -0700, Erik Max Francis <max at alcyone.com>
wrote:

>If someone wants to be abusive, he can.  The idea behind Python is that
>everyone will behave like adults, so there's little need to worry about
>these kinds of things.

Yeah, thanks. Is this kind of idea that I'm not used to

-- 
Lawrence "Rhymes" Oluyede
http://loluyede.blogspot.com
rhymes at NOSPAMmyself.com



From alanmk at hotmail.com  Fri Jul 25 08:09:31 2003
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 13:09:31 +0100
Subject: Tokenize
References: <8%VTa.133$313.72262@news.uswest.net> <3F203257.AD0A4B30@hotmail.com> <bfpd41$l82$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <3F211DFB.FDC54852@hotmail.com>

Andrew Dalke wrote:

> Another option is the little-known 'shlex' module, part of the standard
> library.

[snip]

> Also, with __iter__ in newer Pythons, if these module were useful
> then it would be nice if "for token in shlex..." worked.

Python 2.3b1 (#40, Apr 25 2003, 19:06:24)

>>> import shlex
>>> import StringIO
>>> s = StringIO.StringIO("""ls -lart "have space.*" will travel""")
>>> for ix, tok in enumerate(shlex.shlex(s)):
...     print "%d: %s" % (ix, tok)
...
0: ls
1: -
2: lart
3: "have space.*"
4: will
5: travel
>>>

Thanks to Gustavo Niemeyer, who is credited in the code for
"Lib/shlex.py" as follows

# Posix compliance, split(), string arguments, and
# iterator interface by Gustavo Niemeyer, April 2003.

regards,

-- 
alan kennedy
-----------------------------------------------------
check http headers here: http://xhaus.com/headers
email alan:              http://xhaus.com/mailto/alan



From lol at lolmc.com  Wed Jul 16 17:57:16 2003
From: lol at lolmc.com (Rogue9)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 22:57:16 +0100
Subject: Problems retrieving items from a list using a reference rather than an integer - can you help?
Message-ID: <3f15ca92@shknews01>

Hi,
I?m trying to retrieve an item from a list using a reference called
?draw?' (which is an integer from 1 to 792 in a while loop) using:-

draw = 1
while 1:
	if draw == 792:
		break
	b1 = someOtherList[draw-1]
	r1 = b1[draw]
	draw = draw+1

However,the item I expect is not being retrieved i.e. a zero is the result
of the retrieval rather than the integer in the list I was expecting.
Furthermore,when I substitute an integer for draw e.g. r1 = b1[12],I
do get the expected result.
Can anyone enlighten me as to why and how to get over this please?
Thanks
Lol McBride



From ianb at colorstudy.com  Wed Jul 16 23:56:02 2003
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: 16 Jul 2003 22:56:02 -0500
Subject: list() coercion
In-Reply-To: <bf51v6$bc5v1$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>
References: <mailman.1058400718.22076.python-list@python.org>
	 <bf51v6$bc5v1$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <1058414161.19240.1423.camel@lothlorien>

On Wed, 2003-07-16 at 22:04, Greg Ewing (using news.cis.dfn.de) wrote:
> Ian Bicking wrote:
> > However, list() seems to call the object's
> > __len__, 
>  >
> > Is there a way I can keep this from happening?
> 
> Give your object an __iter__ method that returns
> itself.

I'm not clear on how that will help...?  

It already does have an __iter__ method, but it returns a separate
iterator.

  Ian






From mail2jinu at yahoo.com  Tue Jul 15 06:08:44 2003
From: mail2jinu at yahoo.com (Jinu)
Date: 15 Jul 2003 03:08:44 -0700
Subject: zope xml error
Message-ID: <517bf874.0307150208.3faf9bf0@posting.google.com>

while i worked with xml in zope using python i got the following error.



Error Type: AttributeError
Error Value: documentElement


i've installed pyxml,xmllib ,xmldocument .

can anyone shed some light

thanks in advance 
Jinu

my python script is as follows

import string
doc=getattr(context,'addressbook.xml')
#doc=context.objectvalues('addressbook.xml')
book=doc.documentElement                    # here the error is generated.
print "Number of items",len(book.childNodes)
names=[]
for item in book.childNodes:
  name=item.firstChild
  names.append(name.firstChild.nodeValue)
print "Names",string.join(names,",")
return printed

addressbook.xml

<?xml version="1.0"?>
<addressbook>
<item>
 <name>Bob </name>
 <address>2118 Wildhare st </address>
</item>
<item>
 <name>Randolf </name>
 <address>13 E. Roundway</address>
</item>
</addressbook>



From mickey at tm.informatik.uni-frankfurt.de  Wed Jul  2 19:22:24 2003
From: mickey at tm.informatik.uni-frankfurt.de (Michael 'Mickey' Lauer)
Date: 2 Jul 2003 23:22:24 GMT
Subject: PyQT and Mandrake 9.1
References: <bdrsbq$2a8d$1@biggoron.nerim.net> <bdrug5$vdeid$1@ID-174077.news.dfncis.de> <bds25p$nql$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk> <bds7ig$vqb2g$1@ID-174077.news.dfncis.de> <bds9l0$1bj$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk> <bdsi0k$10jkr7$2@ID-192111.news.dfncis.de> <bdub91$199f$1@biggoron.nerim.net>
Message-ID: <bdvpfg$118k7i$1@ID-192111.news.dfncis.de>

fwiw, mandrake-cooker now contains pyqt-3.6 as rpms.

:M:




From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Thu Jul 31 11:43:47 2003
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 31 Jul 2003 11:43:47 -0400
Subject: RELEASED Python 2.3 (final)
References: <mailman.1059523523.23534.python-list@python.org> <Ol%Va.2860$cI2.2543@nwrdny01.gnilink.net> <3F28EA71.6A863E7@hotmail.com> <gryZ9MBVjPK$EwDP@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <bgbdfj$fto$1@panix2.panix.com>

In article <gryZ9MBVjPK$EwDP at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>,
Robin Becker  <robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
>
>1) SyntaxWarning: assignment to None
>   eg for None, name in colorNamePairs:
>   what is the preferred way to do this nowadays? It's fairly
>   trivial to go through and change these to for notUsed, x in ....
>   but is there a nicer way.

Some people use "_".
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

This is Python.  We don't care much about theory, except where it intersects 
with useful practice.  --Aahz



From CousinStanley at hotmail.com  Wed Jul 30 08:15:51 2003
From: CousinStanley at hotmail.com (Cousin Stanley)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 05:15:51 -0700
Subject: Thank you developers for 2.3
References: <aOIVa.8149$yv1.7974@nwrddc02.gnilink.net> <lMKVa.907$cI2.99@nwrdny01.gnilink.net>
Message-ID: <bg8co8$l4sb3$1@ID-130333.news.uni-berlin.de>

| You must really trust us.
| The benchmark compares the speed
| but doesn't check to see if the answers are the same

    Python 2.2.1             Python 2.3b1

    k ..... 26991000000      k ..... 26991000000

    et .... 108.370000005    et .... 51.4100000858

    Answers look OK and 2x speed improvement
    seems to prevail for slower processors as well ....

    Using Win98 @ 250 MHz ....

-- 
Cousin Stanley
Human Being
Phoenix, Arizona





From gh at ghaering.de  Thu Jul 17 20:07:13 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 02:07:13 +0200
Subject: Unicode question
In-Reply-To: <65m1yubd.fsf@python.net>
References: <mailman.1058456911.22551.python-list@python.org>
	<65m1yubd.fsf@python.net>
Message-ID: <3F173A31.1030404@ghaering.de>

Thomas Heller wrote:
> Gerhard H?ring <gh at ghaering.de> writes:
> 
> 
>> >>> u"???"
>>u'\x84\x94\x81'
>>
>>(Python 2.2.3/2.3b2; sys.getdefaultencoding() == "ascii")
>>
>>Why does this work?
>>
>>Does Python guess which encoding I mean? I thought Python should
>>refuse to guess :-)
> 
> 
> I stumbled over this yesterday, and it seems it is (at least) partially
> answered by PEP 263:
> 
>     In Python 2.1, Unicode literals can only be written using the
>     Latin-1 based encoding "unicode-escape". This makes the programming
>     environment rather unfriendly to Python users who live and work in
>     non-Latin-1 locales such as many of the Asian countries. Programmers
>     can write their 8-bit strings using the favorite encoding, but are
>     bound to the "unicode-escape" encoding for Unicode literals.
> 
> I have the impression that this is undocumented on purpose, because you
> should not write unescaped non-ansi characters into the source file
> (with 'unknown' encoding).

I agree that using latin1 as default is bad. If there's an encoding 
cookie in the 2.3+ source file then this encoding could be used.

I stumbled on this when giving another Python user on this list a 
pointer to the relevant section in the Python tutorial 
(http://www.python.org/doc/current/tut/node5.html#SECTION005130000000000000000) 
where Guido uses u"???" in an example.

As this is BAD the tutorial should probably be changed. I'll file a bug 
report.

-- Gerhard




From skip at pobox.com  Sun Jul 27 16:02:58 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 15:02:58 -0500
Subject: GET/POST Data Array in Python?
In-Reply-To: <7b454334.0307271134.771de1ce@posting.google.com>
References: <7b454334.0307271134.771de1ce@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <16164.12274.833025.917517@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    faizan> I am making a simple Pythong CGI script that collects data from
    faizan> a form.  When the Python CGI Script is called, I wish to gather
    faizan> all the POST variables and display all their values.  So, I was
    faizan> wondering if all the POST data is collected in an array like in
    faizan> PHP where I just go through all keys and display their values?

Sure.  For an example, visit:

    http://www.musi-cal.com/~skip/python/

and search for "CGI Environment Printer".

Skip




From oren-py-l at hishome.net  Sun Jul 13 09:38:01 2003
From: oren-py-l at hishome.net (Oren Tirosh)
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 09:38:01 -0400
Subject: anything like C++ references?
In-Reply-To: <pan.2003.07.13.10.58.11.376531@127.0.0.1>
References: <13t0hvsb7idh0g6ac3upe5k0qd6flc17ah@4ax.com> <pan.2003.07.13.10.58.11.376531@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <20030713133801.GA92658@hishome.net>

On Sun, Jul 13, 2003 at 10:58:13PM +1200, David McNab wrote:
> On Sat, 12 Jul 2003 13:53:35 -0700, Tom Plunket paused, took a deep
> breath, then came out with:
> 
> > I want to do something along the lines of the following C++ code:
> > 
> > void change(int& i)
> > {
> >    i++;
> > }
> 
> > Is there any way to do references like this in Python?
> <snip>
> 
> In Python, basic types like strings and numbers are a weird exception to
> the 'everything is an object' rule.
> 
> When you pass any other object in a function, the function gets a ref to
> that object.
> 
> But when you pass a string or numeric object, the whole thing (not a ref)
> gets passed.

Numbers and strings are objects just like everything else in Python and
are passed by reference. The only difference is that they are *immutable* 
objects so their value cannot be changed through that reference in a way
that will be visible to others who reference the same object. Under most 
circumstances a reference to an immutable object is nearly indistingishable 
from a value. But the id() builtin function or the 'is' operator quickly 
reveal the difference. 

There is no weird exception to any rule here. Some objects are mutable, 
some are not. That's all.

   Oren





From andreas.kuntzagk at mdc-berlin.de  Wed Jul  2 06:56:18 2003
From: andreas.kuntzagk at mdc-berlin.de (Andreas Kuntzagk)
Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 12:56:18 +0200
Subject: os.fork() different in cgi-script?
References: <bdudn2$11c3gt$1@fu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <bdudpt$11c3gt$2@fu-berlin.de>

Sorry, forgot:

this is Python 2.2.1, apache 1.3.26 on SuSE 8.1

Andreas



From adechert at earthlink.net  Sun Jul 20 16:43:27 2003
From: adechert at earthlink.net (Alan Dechert)
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 20:43:27 GMT
Subject: Possible use of Python for a voting machine demo project -- your feedback requested
Message-ID: <P9DSa.111436$Io.9552373@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>

In the world of voting technology experts, I'm known as the guy that has
proposed to use commodity PCs as voting machines running open source
software with a printer to generate the paper ballot.  While I have been
pushing the idea since Dec of '00, I haven't gotten any project funded yet.
Back then, I was just a crank with an idea.  Now people are starting to take
it more seriously.  I have some computer scientists and some students
interested in producing a demo of the system I have described.  Primarily,
this demo is intended to introduce the idea to the public.  Lots of ideas
for which language to use for the demo have been tossed around.  I would
like to get some feedback on whether or not you think Python would be good
for this and why.

This will be throw-away code.  It will be pure coincidence if we end up
using any of it when the real [funded!] project gets underway.  We will be
demonstrating to some reporters the look and feel of our voting machine --
and by extension to the public, especially since we plan to have a demo on
the web that anyone with an Internet connection can try out.  Some have
suggested HTML or XML but I'm not sure this will give us fine enough control
over the page layout.

Here are some requirements for the demo:

1) The display will be for 1280 x 1024 resolution.  While other resolutions
may be supported in the final product, the demo will only support this
resolution (the large screen is a critical usability advantage).  Here is a
mock up of the on-screen ballot image:

http://home.earthlink.net/~adechert/ballot-mockup3.gif

Pretty much, I want pixel-for-pixel control over what goes on the display.

2) The demo on-screen ballot will have pale background colors initially.
I'm thinking the columns will be alternating shades of pale yellow to help
delineate them.  We might also have the tiles (each contest is displayed in
a tile) with contrasting shades.  Once a contest is voted on, the colors
will change.  For example, when the voter selects a president/vice president
pair, the background will change; the non-selected pairs will be greyed
while the selected pair will be highlighted (very brightly -- should light
up like a Christmas tree).  The selected pair will also swell in size (maybe
10 %).  The target next to the names looks something like a radio button but
I'm thinking we may want a box.  On selection, a large red checkmark will
appear in the box (and maybe extending outside the box).  In any case, it
will be stupendously obvious who was selected and who was not.

3) When "WRITE-IN CANDIDATE" is selected, a large widow (maybe the full
screen) will pop up with a QWERTY keyboard in the upper half.  This keyboard
will have only three rows with the alpha keys (no punctuation or numbers
needed except for perhaps the hyphen... no shift, all CAPS).  We'd include a
backspace key and a space bar.  Under the QWERTY keyboard (and space bar)
we'll have a two-row keyboard with the letters arranged alphabetically.
Large instruction text that tells the voter to select letters from either
keyboard to build the string for the write-in.  When the voter selects
"DONE," s/he is returned to the original screen with the write-in selected.

4) The first button in the INSTRUCTIONS tile is for selecting a different
language.  The button label (now has Spanish and French text that says, "To
select a different language...") will have maybe one other language on it.
Upon selection, the voter will be given a list of languages from which to
choose.  I one is selected, the voter is returned to the original screen
with the text now in the selected language.  For the demo, maybe one other
language will actually be selectable and used in the display.

5) If the second button in the INSTRUCTIONS tile ("FOR LARGER TYPE") is
selected, we go from a one page ballot to multiple pages.  The button will
change to say "FOR NORMAL TYPE" and will have arrows appended to the left
and right of the button for previous and next pages.  Each contest will then
be displayed one a page of its own with larger text (maybe twice the size).
If we have the time, we may also include the option to make the text even
larger.  This paginated ballot style will require a summary screen that will
show all the selections made for all the contests: the "PRINT MY BALLOT"
option will appear only on the summary screen.

6) The CAT CATCHER contest illustrates how vote-for-n will look.  Once the
voter has made three selections, the rest get grey-ed out and cannot be
selected.  De-selecting one of the selected candidates reactivates the
others.

7) The County Commissioner race illustrates how ranked preference voting
would look.  When the voter selects the first one, the button in the "1"
column is filled and the text "1st" will appear in the space between the row
of buttons and the candidate name.  When the next selection is made, the
corresponding button in the "2" column is filled and "2nd" appears, and so
on.  There is a "CLEAR CHOICES" button in case the voter wants to start
over.

8) The printout is intended to come from a personal laser printer located in
the voting booth.  For the demo, we'll probably use the HP Laserjet 5L.

9) In our set up for the media, we'll have one touch screen system using a
flat panel screen something like this one (maybe exactly this one).

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2742571869&category=29502

We'll have one or more other non-touch screen systems that will work exactly
the same way except with a mouse.

The displays will be horizontal -- sitting in some custom made cradle we
come up with (maybe made from wood).  The Australians have done something
similar in a pilot project:

http://www.softimp.com.au/evacs.html

10) The PCs used will be trailing-edge -- maybe 300-450 MHz PII or PIII.

11) The demo will be advertised to show a new system that will potentially
cost a fraction of what dedicated voting machines (ES&S, Sequoia, Diebold,
et al, DREs typically cost $3,000 - $4,000 ea) cost.  With Measure 41 in
California ($200 million) and the Help America Vote Act ($3.9 billion) a lot
of public funds are being wasted on outrageously expensive hardware that
will be obsolete in a very few years.  Trailing edge PCs cost next to
nothing.  We can afford to put some extra money into the displays and still
have a system that is much cheaper.

12) Besides the standalone system, we'll have a web based version so others
can try it out.  We anticipate that writers will discuss the demo in their
articles and will include a URL for readers that want to go try it out.  The
web version will be hosted at one of the University of California campuses
(probably UC Santa Cruz, fyi).  BTW, we are not proposing that you will be
able to vote from home via Internet.  We are proposing that Internet voting
be used instead of the usual absentee voting methods, but this will be done
at attended voting stations (where the voter can be positively identified).
The Remote Attended Internet Voting scheme we propose has the advantage that
the on-screen ballot image will be exactly the same for poll site and
Internet voting.  The printout will also be exactly the same (mailed from
the remote location instead of dropped in the ballot box).  The electronic
record of the vote will also be in the same format.

13) I am pulling together faculty and students from quite a few universities
around the country.  However, this is designed as mainly a University of
California project.  Several UC campuses are now involved.  UC will be the
eventual owner of the software.  The complete [funded] project will involve
much more than just some voting machine software -- all the software needed
for conducting elections will be created.  We anticipate having quite a few
non-academics involved too.  For example, Roy Saltman is probably the best
known voting technology expert and he's not an academic.  I'm not an
academic either.

14) In our system, the printout represents the authentic vote -- it's what
the voter sees and personally verifies.  The printout will include the
ballot number printed in each corner (upside down at the bottom).  The
selections will be bar coded in a strip on the left edge.  Probably,
write-in candidate names will be in a separate bar code.  The printout will
list the voter's selections in text that can be easily read by humans and
scanners.  Blind voters will use the system wearing headphones and using a
hand held device to register selections.  Blind voters will   take the
printout from the printer and place it in a privacy folder.  They will be
able to verify the contents of the printout and maintain a secret ballot by
going to a poll worker and exposing just the edge of the printout with the
bar code so that it can be read by a scanner.  The blind voter will then be
able to hear the selections read back via headphones.

15) Here is some background information on the project proposal in case
you're interested:

Here's a copy of the first page of our UC Berkeley proposal for California:

http://home.earthlink.net/~adechert/src_proposal.html

This proposal was recommended for funding more than once:
http://home.earthlink.net/~adechert/perata3.jpg

U of Iowa CS professor, Doug Jones, is my main co-author for the current
draft of our nationwide proposal:
http://home.earthlink.net/~adechert/ucvs-proposal.rtf

More recent information is available:
http://home.earthlink.net/~adechert/
********************
So, please let me know what you think about using Python for this demo.
Also, if you are a Python expert and would like to help as a volunteer
(we're all volunteers until the project gets funding), please contact me
ASAP.  We want to have a demo running very soon!  -- within a few weeks.

--Alan Dechert 916-791-0456
adechert at earthlink.net








From JoeyTaj at netzero.com  Mon Jul 14 16:33:38 2003
From: JoeyTaj at netzero.com (Paradox)
Date: 14 Jul 2003 13:33:38 -0700
Subject: Python Image Conversion with PIL
Message-ID: <924a9f9c.0307141233.6d894f7a@posting.google.com>

I am trying to convert some group 4 Tif images to JPG. I can load the
image fine and can read attributes but every method I call raises this
error (IOError: decoder group4 not available). Is there any extra
package that I am needing. I searched the PDF help and the PIL website
and can't find any reference to anything like that.



From tdelaney at avaya.com  Wed Jul 16 20:25:39 2003
From: tdelaney at avaya.com (Delaney, Timothy C (Timothy))
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 10:25:39 +1000
Subject: Augmented Assignment question
Message-ID: <338366A6D2E2CA4C9DAEAE652E12A1DE8D3D44@au3010avexu1.global.avaya.com>

> From: Doug Tolton [mailto:dtolton at yahoo.com]
> 
> I mis-spoke, lists are not included.  You cannot do augmented
> assignments on tuples or multiple targets.

This is still incorrect. You correct thing to say is that you cannot do an augmented assignment on something which does not have a name, or which explicitly forbids it.

> >>> a,b = 0,0
> >>> a,b += 1,1
> SyntaxError: augmented assign to tuple not possible

>>> l = []
>>> l
[]
>>> id(l)
8289204
>>> l += [1,]
>>> l
[1]
>>> id(l)
8289204
>>> l += ['foo',]
>>> l
[1, 'foo']
>>> id(l)
8289204
>>> t = ()
>>> t
()
>>> id(t)
7966916
>>> t += (1,)
>>> t
(1,)
>>> id(t)
8261268
>>> t += ('foo',)
>>> t
(1, 'foo')
>>> id(t)
8133748

Note how the ID of `l` (list) does not change, but the id of `t` (tuple) does. This is because a tuple is immutable, and so:

    t += (1,)

is equivalent to:

    t = t + (1,)

whereas a list is mutable, and:

    l += [1,]

is equivalent to:

    l.extend([1,])

Every class can decide how to implement augmented assignment, using the __iadd__, etc magic methods.

Tim Delaney




From LogiplexSoftware at earthlink.net  Tue Jul 15 14:24:30 2003
From: LogiplexSoftware at earthlink.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: 15 Jul 2003 11:24:30 -0700
Subject: How to crash Python in 1 easy step (python 2.2.2)
In-Reply-To: <b1919f11.0307150217.73a5bf2d@posting.google.com>
References: <2e363c08.0307130944.4c470bc3@posting.google.com>
	 <b1919f11.0307150217.73a5bf2d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1058293470.1563.16.camel@software1.logiplex.internal>

On Tue, 2003-07-15 at 03:17, Gavrie Philipson wrote:
> pwmiller1 at adelphia.net (Paul Miller) wrote in message news:<2e363c08.0307130944.4c470bc3 at posting.google.com>...
> > I'm not sure if this is a python bug or a bug in an associated
> > library, and I'm not even sure how to correctly report it, but here is
> >   Anytime python is accepting keyboard input, whether it's with
> > raw_input, or sitting on the command line waiting for the user to type
> > code, you can crash python by holding ctrl+shift and then pressing
> > enter.
> > 
> > This is on a RedHat 9.0 system running on an Athlon 600.  Basically
> > everything about the system is standard except for what's been updated
> > by RedHat itself.  If anyone who has the time and ability to track
> > down this bug needs more information, please email me.
> 
> I'm seeing the same effect on RH9, using KDE's "konsole" terminal
> emulator.
> When pressing Ctrl-Shift-Enter, it actually sends the ^[OM characters
> (Escape, O, M).
> Manually sending the key sequence Esc-O-something also crashes Python.

Yep, here (RH9, Py2.2.2) it is as well under gnome-terminal (sending
Esc-O-M).  I'm amazed no one saw it sooner <wink>.

-- 
Cliff Wells, Software Engineer
Logiplex Corporation (www.logiplex.net)
(503) 978-6726  (800) 735-0555





From shawn at thekompany.com  Wed Jul 30 00:59:09 2003
From: shawn at thekompany.com (Shawn Gordon)
Date: 29 Jul 2003 21:59:09 -0700
Subject: PyQt Help and Advice
References: <bg636k$408g$1@netnews.upenn.edu>
Message-ID: <c846bee4.0307292059.317f5aaa@posting.google.com>

ilyak at red.seas.upenn.edu (Ilya Knizhnik) wrote in message news:<bg636k$408g$1 at netnews.upenn.edu>...
> Dear All,
> 
> I am fairly new to Python.  I have found it an easy language to learn and 
> a very usefull one for many tasks. Currently I am working on a python 
> project that involves a GUI and it was suggested that PyQt is the best way to 
> design that GUI.
> However since PyQt is rather new, I have not found much documentation on 
> it, or examples in it.  The only useful tutorial/book I have found is at 
> www.opendocspublishing.com/pyqt/ but it is not always clear for someone 
> with almost no GUI experience.
> Does anyone have any suggestions?
> 
> Ilya

We have a product called PyQtDoc that provides a very nice and
convenient interface for all the PyQt information.  You can see
information on it at http://www.thekompany.com/products/pyqtdoc/

Best,
Shawn



From mis6 at pitt.edu  Thu Jul 24 17:06:55 2003
From: mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato)
Date: 24 Jul 2003 14:06:55 -0700
Subject: recognizing empty iterators
References: <2259b0e2.0307210626.11a1bbf1@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <2259b0e2.0307240536.425f837d@posting.google.com>

After some thinking, and having read the suggestion in this thread, 
I see that the source of my problem was the following: whereas an
empty list or an empty tuple has a truth value of False, an empty
iterator has a truth value of True. It is easy to fix, anyway, with
a function which works as "iter", but return an empty list (or tuple)
when the iterator is empty:

import itertools

def iter_(seq):
    i=iter(seq)
    try:
        first=i.next()
    except StopIteration:
        return []
    return itertools.chain([first],i) 

Maybe not very elegant, but it works:

it=iter_('xyz')
for c in it:
    print c

if iter_(it):
    print "non empty"
else:
    print "is empty"

BTW, the fact that an empty iterator is True is somewhat strange,
considering that [],() and "" are False; on the other hand, generic
objects are True, so the point can be debated ...


    Michele



From fredrik at pythonware.com  Tue Jul 29 10:47:43 2003
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 16:47:43 +0200
Subject: gzip HTTP results problem
References: <003401c355c1$cb6949f0$6400a8c0@EVOD31>
Message-ID: <bg61ec$u3i$1@main.gmane.org>

Bill Loren wrote:

> I've encountered a problem trying to decode gzip data
> returned from an HTTP server I communicate with (I use urllib2).
> I've tried to use both the gzip and zlib come-along python libraries but
> alas.
>
> Have anyone of you ppl succeeded in talking gzip with an HTTP
> server ?

this might help:

    http://effbot.org/zone/consumer-gzip.htm

(that piece of code is used in production code, so it should
work...)

</F>







From roy at panix.com  Fri Jul 11 07:46:13 2003
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 07:46:13 -0400
Subject: How to get all IP addresses in python?
References: <belfv0$bqp4$1@netnews.upenn.edu>
Message-ID: <roy-723D4D.07461311072003@reader1.panix.com>

"Yun Mao" <maoy_REMOVE_IF_NOT_SPAM at cis.upenn.edu> wrote:
> Hi. I did a little homework on google for this question. The answer was:
> >>> import socket
> >>> hostname = socket.gethostname()
> >>> ip = socket.gethostbyname(hostname)
> >>> print ip
> 192.168.55.101
> But what if I have several interfaces, say eth0, eth0:1, eth1, etc. How to
> get all of them? It would be a little undesirable if people suggest to parse
> the result of ifconfig because I in particular want the code to be cross
> platform. Thanks a lot!

You might try using gethostname() as above to get the canonical host 
name for your machine, then using one of the various Python DNS modules 
to look up all the A records for that name.  Not perfect, but a start.



From simonb at webone.com.au  Fri Jul  4 21:40:04 2003
From: simonb at webone.com.au (Simon Burton)
Date: Sat, 05 Jul 2003 11:40:04 +1000
Subject: ANN: hYPerSonic-1.0
Message-ID: <mailman.1057372981.25548.clpa-moderators@python.org>

hYPerSonic allows one to build and manipulate signal processing pipelines
from python scripts.
It is designed for real-time control.
It includes objects for oscillators, filters, file-io, soundcard and
memory operations.
It is low-level: every byte counts.

Source code, examples, docs, here:
http://arrowtheory.com/software/hypersonic/index.html

Runs on Linux and OSX, with python2.2 or 2.3.

I'd like to know what you think of it.

Simon Burton.





From gh at ghaering.de  Fri Jul 25 13:37:04 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 19:37:04 +0200
Subject: CGI "download" prompt?
In-Reply-To: <3f215bef$0$49107$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
References: <77dd287a.0307240632.40c6c309@posting.google.com>	<3f205f06$0$49115$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>	<77dd287a.0307250619.7c2ec441@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.1059144400.10484.python-list@python.org>
	<3f215bef$0$49107$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <3F216AC0.3010004@ghaering.de>

Irmen de Jong wrote:
> Gerhard H?ring wrote:
> 
>> Erhm. Let's suppose you want to send an RTF file and have the browser 
>> pop up a save dialog with a certain filename preconfigured:
>>
>> Then send these headers:
>>
>> Content-Type: application/rtf
>> Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=mydocument.rtf
> 
> I didn't know about Content-Disposition! If this works,
> that's very nice-- especially if the filename part of that
> header is actually used by the web browser.

That's what it is about. See http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc2183.html for 
details :)

-- Gerhard




From letezo at fw.hu  Thu Jul 10 11:47:38 2003
From: letezo at fw.hu (=?iso-8859-2?B?TOl0ZXr1?=)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 17:47:38 +0200
Subject: Number Theory modules for Python
Message-ID: <001601c346fa$9add2b60$8800a8c0@sirius>

Hi!


I searched the Net and found several Number Theory (NT) related Python
extension modules. Some of them may be used to do some research but
unfortunately almost all promising modules disappeared from the Net, so I
wasn't able to download them. I'm sure, that it's my fault and NT packages
are actually exist and downloadable - somewhere.

Please send me any known NT related materials/URLs can be used to do NT
research.


Thanks: Complex






From jarausch at skynet.be  Mon Jul 14 16:13:08 2003
From: jarausch at skynet.be (Helmut Jarausch)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 22:13:08 +0200
Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re=3A_Python_Mystery_Theatre_--_Episode?=
 =?ISO-8859-1?Q?_2=3A__As=ED_Fue?=
In-Reply-To: <VorQa.15236$Kw1.587@nwrdny02.gnilink.net>
References: <VorQa.15236$Kw1.587@nwrdny02.gnilink.net>
Message-ID: <3F130ED4.2030804@skynet.be>

Raymond Hettinger wrote:
> ACT III ----------------------------------------------------
> def once(x): return x
> def twice(x): return 2*x
> def thrice(x): return 3*x
> funcs = [once, twice, thrice]
> 
> flim = [lambda x:funcs[0](x), lambda x:funcs[1](x), lambda x:funcs[2](x)]
> flam = [lambda x:f(x) for f in funcs]
> 
> print flim[0](1), flim[1](1), flim[2](1)
> print flam[0](1), flam[1](1), flam[2](1)

OK, I believe to know why the last line
print '3' three times, since only a reference
to 'f' is stored within the lambda expression
and this has the value 'thrice' when 'print'
is executed.
But how can I achieve something like an
evaluation of one indirection so that
a reference to the function referenced by 'f'
is stored instead.

Thanks for hint.
(this references only model of Python is
  a bit hard sometimes)

-- 
Helmut Jarausch

Lehrstuhl fuer Numerische Mathematik
RWTH - Aachen University
D 52056 Aachen, Germany




From peter at engcorp.com  Wed Jul  9 09:15:00 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 09:15:00 -0400
Subject: Python Global Constant
References: <mailman.1057737013.30246.python-list@python.org> <3F0BE68B.893EB7E5@engcorp.com> <mailman.1057746854.11257.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3F0C1554.DFBE1601@engcorp.com>

Christoph Becker-Freyseng wrote:
> 
> >>*** module any ***
> >>import dirs;
> >>def CheckDir(Dir):
> >>  if Dir=dirs.Const_Up: xxx
> >
> >
> > This code should work fine, although you might want to follow
> > the Python conventions ........
> 
> What about using __builtins__ wouldn't make this the constant really global?

A module is already global, in the sense that if you do "import xxx"
you will get a reference to a singleton module object (generally from
xxx.py), which provides a nice clean namespace for a set of names such
as constants.  

This makes it easy for someone reading the code to see where a constant
is defined, and it provides a necessary level of organization.

Putting something in __builtins__ is not only stylistically a bad
idea for most things, but it also hides the source of the name and
anyone reading the file will be at a loss to figure out where it 
came from unless every reference to it is preceded by a big comment::

   # WARNING!  The author of this code chose the silly approach
   # of storing a reference to this constant in the __builtins__
   # namespace, which is why you can't find where it is defined.
   # This reference was stored in the initialization code that
   # is in init.py, and instead of just leaving the name there
   # so you could call it "init.CONSTANT", it was slipped in
   # through the back door to let the author save five keystrokes,
   # at the expense of readability, but with this comment everything
   # will be okay.
   x = CONSTANT

How is that better than using the proper approach of storing constants
in a module, such as "constant.py"?  ;-)

-Peter



From inyeol.lee at siimage.com  Tue Jul 15 18:06:03 2003
From: inyeol.lee at siimage.com (Inyeol Lee)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 15:06:03 -0700
Subject: String Manipulation
In-Reply-To: <bf1pon$9kh1b$1@ID-130333.news.uni-berlin.de>
References: <2c6431ab.0307151223.4173c4ee@posting.google.com> <bf1pon$9kh1b$1@ID-130333.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <20030715220603.GA7138@siliconimage.com>

On Tue, Jul 15, 2003 at 01:58:09PM -0700, Cousin Stanley wrote:
> | I need a piece of code that takes a string like this
> | string1 = "aaa/bbb/ccc/dd" and extracts a string containting
> | the character after the last "/"
> |
> | So for this example the result would be "dd"
> | ...
> 
> lamar_air ...
> 
> Here is one way ...
> 
> 
> >>> str_in = 'aaa/bbb/ccc/dd'
> >>>
> >>> list_in = str_in.split( '/' )
> >>>
> >>> last_element = list_in[ -1 ]
> >>>
> >>> print last_element
> dd
> >>>
> 
> 
> -- 
> Cousin Stanley
> Human Being
> Phoenix, Arizona
> 

In Unix,

>>> os.path.basename("aaa/bbb/ccc")
'ccc'

Inyeol




From ask at me.com  Thu Jul 10 16:24:15 2003
From: ask at me.com (Greg Krohn)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 20:24:15 GMT
Subject: sort() doesn't work on dist.keys() ?
References: <6cd58b6.0307101214.34e99f2a@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <PXjPa.94236$Io.8108411@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>

"Steve Pinard" <spinard at ra.rockwell.com> wrote in message
news:6cd58b6.0307101214.34e99f2a at posting.google.com...
> (Got a comm error trying to post first time, sorry if this
> is a duplicate)
>
> New to Python, so please bear with me.
>
> >>> import sys
> >>> print sys.modules.keys()          # works fine
> ['code', ...snip... ]
> >>> print sys.modules.keys().sort()   # returns None, why?
> None
>
> According to my reference (Nutshell), keys() returns a
> "copy" of the dict keys as a list, so I would expect when
> I aply sort() to that list, I would get an in-place sorted
> version of that list.  Why do I get None?
>
> TIA,
> - Steve
>

You said it yourself. It's an IN PLACE sort, so it won't return anything
(well, None, but that doesn't count). Try this:

**UNTESTED**
>>> mykeys = sys.modules.keys()
>>> print mykeys
[...a list of keys...]
>>> mykeys.sort() #Note it's IN PLACE. Nothing is returned, so there's no
need to assign anything
>>> print mykeys
[...a SORTED list of keys...]

Greg





From tzot at sil-tec.gr  Sun Jul 27 20:10:44 2003
From: tzot at sil-tec.gr (Christos TZOTZIOY Georgiou)
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 03:10:44 +0300
Subject: Python 2.3C1 Fails to build ?
References: <z82Ua.71562$0v4.4775810@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net> <mailman.1059112957.27939.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <v0o8ivgfnu79tl5st2vdidtchujsva57fj@4ax.com>

On Fri, 25 Jul 2003 02:01:10 -0400, rumours say that "Tim Peters"
<tim.one at comcast.net> might have written:

>>    PT(0), PT(1), PT(2), PT(3), PT(4), PT(5), PT(6), PT(7)
>>    ^
>>
>> Total errors detected in Objects/obmalloc.c: 2
>> make: *** [Objects/obmalloc.o] Error 1
>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>
>> Any ideas what is going on?
>
>I'm surprised this hasn't triggered a (bogus) error on some other platform
>before!

This does trigger a warning on SGI MIPSPro compilers:

cc-1167 cc: WARNING File = Objects/obmalloc.c, Line = 371
  Pointer points outside of underlying object.

        PT(0), PT(1), PT(2), PT(3), PT(4), PT(5), PT(6), PT(7)
        ^

I never bothered to report it as a Python bug (or a patch: see later)
since things work fine; I am sure other Irix users noticed that too.

As Martin says, the macro PT(0) expands to twice PTA(0):

((poolp )((uchar *)&(usedpools[2*(0)]) - 2*sizeof(block *)))

C defines that

a[i] == *(a+i) {btw: == *(i+a) == i[a] but it's irrelevant}

so, assuming that MIPSPro don't like returning addresses before the one
usedpools points to, I just tried

#define PTA(x)  ((poolp )((uchar *)(usedpools+2*(x)) - 2*sizeof(block
*)))

ie I used (a+i) instead of &(a[i]), just in case I could fool the
compiler.  No success, of course, the warning was still thrown, because
usedpools *is* an array pointer --it's not just a pointer-- and PT(0)
points to memory *before* usedpools.

Anyway, the source comments declare that PT(0) is indeed an "invalid"
address, so the programmer is aware.  MIPSPro and UNICOS cc aren't that
mistaken in giving a warning/error, but it's a bug only if usedpools[0]
or usedpools[1] ever get used as pointers; it seems they are not
(guessing by Python working correctly).

Now, Holden: although there could be some connection between Cray and
SGI C compilers, I am afraid I can't help more; you could try cc options
about what is an error and what is a warning... the manuals should be
your friend.
-- 
TZOTZIOY, I speak England very best,
Microsoft Security Alert: the Matrix began as open source.



From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Tue Jul 15 10:47:09 2003
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 15 Jul 2003 10:47:09 -0400
Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re=3A_Python_Mystery_Theatre_--_Episode?=
 =?ISO-8859-1?Q?_2=3A__As=ED_Fue?=
References: <VorQa.15236$Kw1.587@nwrdny02.gnilink.net> <3F140F34.1030401@mitretek.org>
Message-ID: <bf145d$ijc$1@panix2.panix.com>

In article <3F140F34.1030401 at mitretek.org>,
Chris Reedy  <creedy at mitretek.org> wrote:
>
>Aside: I have to admit that the ((42,) * 2) did confuse me at first. I'm 
>so used to doing 2 * (42,) when I want to repeat a sequence that I 
>hadn't thought about the reversed form.

My experience is that most people do it the way Ray did, <seq> * <reps>.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"Not everything in life has a clue in front of it...."  --JMS



From alanmk at hotmail.com  Fri Jul 18 15:25:39 2003
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 20:25:39 +0100
Subject: A challenge to the ASCII proponents.
References: <mailman.1058278343.23104.python-list@python.org> <bf167a$pvt$1@panix2.panix.com> <ufzl7rdno.fsf@online.no> <3F142A58.80426AA4@hotmail.com> <2259b0e2.0307161620.4a9353f1@posting.google.com> <Xns93BB246FDDBCFJanC@213.118.75.80> <3F168011.3AEB3EFC@hotmail.com> <3F172442.2040907@v.loewis.de> <3F17C1D4.1A70703A@hotmail.com> <f040c4f9.0307180803.4bd020bf@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3F1849B3.ED989E2@hotmail.com>

Brian McErlean wrote:
> I saw the same as you with that URL, but viewing the thread in
> google, or going to the link it gave for "View this article only":

> http://groups.google.com/groups?dq=&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&selm=3F172442.2040907%40v.loewis.de
> 
> displayed OK (Using Mozilla firebird 0.6)
> 
> The key difference seems to be the "oe=UTF-8" argument in the URL.
> Adding this to your URL displays it correctly.

Yep, we're definitely not in ASCII-land anymore.

-- 
alan kennedy
-----------------------------------------------------
check http headers here: http://xhaus.com/headers
email alan:              http://xhaus.com/mailto/alan



From edreamleo at charter.net  Thu Jul 17 16:52:22 2003
From: edreamleo at charter.net (Edward K. Ream)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 15:52:22 -0500
Subject: wxPython questions
Message-ID: <vhe347qgm74ub5@corp.supernews.com>

I am considering switching from Tk to wxPython; the demo is just so cool.
Here are my questions:

How reliable is wxPython? This is the big one.

In more than two years of Tkinter development I've taken exactly one core
dump in Tk.  I can get wxPython's demo.py to take memory faults with the
Unicode enabled version of wxPython on XP.  About half the time clicking on
the Generic Buttons demo yields: "Unhandled exception in python.exe
(WXMSW24UH.DLL)"  The wxTimeControl demo also throws AttributeError
exceptions.  Not a big deal, and one wonders...

Tk does a lot of checking; wxWindows apparently does little or none.  I
don't really mind hard crashes during development; core dumps for my users
must never ever happen.  How difficult is it in practice to get all the core
dumps out of a medium-sized wxPython app?

Presumably many of the wxWindows helper classes aren't needed in wxPython.
Besides the actual widget classes, what other wxWindows classes must a
wxPython app use?  Any others besides wxColor, wxIcon and wxFont?  What
about strings?  I'd much rather use Python strings instead of wxString.

Is it possible to have an app that creates multiple windows without using
wxDoc and allies?  My app presently creates a hidden TK root window, and
manages all other Tk windows by hand.  Is something like this possible in
wxPython?

Edward
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Edward K. Ream   email:  edreamleo at charter.net
Leo: Literate Editor with Outlines
Leo: http://webpages.charter.net/edreamleo/front.html
--------------------------------------------------------------------





From pyth at devel.trillke.net  Thu Jul  3 05:01:45 2003
From: pyth at devel.trillke.net (holger krekel)
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 11:01:45 +0200
Subject: Clever One Liners
In-Reply-To: <20030703022716.62264.qmail@web20514.mail.yahoo.com>; from woooee@yahoo.com on Wed, Jul 02, 2003 at 07:27:16PM -0700
References: <20030703022716.62264.qmail@web20514.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20030703110145.E6906@prim.han.de>

Curly Joe wrote:
> I agree with you, especially since the compiler, in
> most cases, must break everything down into single
> steps anyway.  Take for instance a very simple
> example:
> x = a + b/c
> The compiler would execute this as:
> x = b/c
> x += a

to be more precise, the compiler would *compile*

    x = a + b/c

to some bytecode like

      LOAD_FAST                0 (a)  # get var and put on valuestack
      LOAD_FAST                1 (b)  # get var and put on valuestack
      LOAD_FAST                2 (c)  # get var and put on valuestack
      BINARY_DIVIDE                   # take 2 stack values and put 
                                      # the devision of them on valuestack
      BINARY_ADD                      # take 2 stack values and put 
                                      # the sum on the value stack
      STORE_FAST               3 (x)  # store last stack item into "x"

and the interpreter would execute this bytecode. 

> Michael Chermside wrote:
> I'm not picking on you in particular, there have been
> several people
> doing this lately, but I'd like to ask folks to please
> lay off the
> quest for one-liners.

What about going for writing bytecode-assembler instead of 
language-level oneliners :-) ? 

cheers,

    holger




From steve at ferg.org  Tue Jul 22 15:51:02 2003
From: steve at ferg.org (Stephen Ferg)
Date: 22 Jul 2003 12:51:02 -0700
Subject: Python & Perl in Wall Street Journal
References: <b16e4ef7.0307220404.49d2719b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <b16e4ef7.0307221151.317d78c1@posting.google.com>

Ooops.  Make that "E and J sources".



From flanagan at hotmail.com  Wed Jul  9 02:26:38 2003
From: flanagan at hotmail.com (Flanagan)
Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 06:26:38 GMT
Subject: format discs.
Message-ID: <pan.2003.07.09.08.22.10.853337.9435@hotmail.com>

hello to all 

somebody can say to me whereupon I modulate of python I can format 
discs. 


thanks flanagan



From wright at esrf.fr  Fri Jul  4 14:16:41 2003
From: wright at esrf.fr (Jon)
Date: 4 Jul 2003 11:16:41 -0700
Subject: getting a submatrix of all true
References: <mailman.1057173484.29754.python-list@python.org> <be0b84$89a$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <52fe159d.0307041016.4dcb4a5c@posting.google.com>

bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) wrote in message news:<be0b84$89a$0 at 216.39.172.122>...
> On Wed, 02 Jul 2003 14:16:57 -0500, John Hunter <jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu> wrote:
> >I am currently using a hack that works, but it makes me wonder if
> >there is an optimal solution.  I define optimal as the removal of rows
> >and columns such that there are no missing values and
> >max(numRows*numCols).

There must be! For each missing entry you can choose to drop either
the row or the column - giving a maximum of 2^N possible ways for N
missing elements. Given that the order in which the rows/columns are
deleted is unimportant the number of possibilities to test is less
than that, but the difficulty is that your decision about row or
column for one element affects the decision for other elements if they
share rows or columns. Graph theoretic approaches probably help - it's
similar to reordering matrix elements to avoid fill in when
decomposing sparse matrices. Depending on N, you might be able to test
all possibilities in a reasonable time, but I have a nasty feeling you
need to check all 2^M to be sure of an optimal solution, where M is
the subset of N which either a share a row or column with another
problematic element.

> >Another way of formulating the question: for a sparse boolean matrix
> >(sparse on True), what is the optimal way to remove rows and columns
> >so that the total number of elements in the matrix is maximal and
> >there are no True values left.

Sadly I can only give you a method which is certainly not optimal, but
at least finds something which is probably not too bad, and fairly
quickly. Uses the Numeric module to speed up, so that a few thousand
by a few hundred is quickly computable. I'm curious to know if it does
much better or worse than other algorithms.

Interesting problem!

Cheers,

Jon

=====================================================================
from Numeric import *

def pickrcs(a,debug=0):
   b=array(a,copy=1)      # local copy of array is modified
   dr=zeros(b.shape[0])   # Arrays to note deleted rows...
   dc=zeros(b.shape[1])   # ... and columns
   sizeleft=[b.shape[0],b.shape[1]]  # Remaining dimensions
   while 1:               # Keep deleting till none left    
      sr=sum(b,1)         # Column scores = ij's to remove 
      sc=sum(b,0)         # Row scores
      mr=argmax(sr)       # index highest row score
      mc=argmax(sc)       # index highest column score
      if sr[mr]==0 and sc[mc]==0 : 
         break            # stop when nothing to delete
      # pick the row/column to delete fewest useful elements
      if sizeleft[1]-sr[mr] > sizeleft[0]-sc[mc]:   
         b[:,mc]=0        # Zero out column
         dc[mc]=1         # tags column as deleted
         sizeleft[1]-=1
      else:   
         b[mr,:]=0        # Zero out row
         dr[mr]=1
         sizeleft[0]-=1
   # end of deletions loop - should be no missing elements now
   #
   # paranoia!, check if anything was left after deletions
   if sum(dr)<b.shape[0] and sum(dc)<b.shape[1]: 
      dr=compress(dr==0,range(b.shape[0]))  # gives return format of  
      dc=compress(dc==0,range(b.shape[1]))  # optimrcs posted by Bengt
      score=dr.shape[0]*dc.shape[0]         # Richter
      return score,dr,dc
   else:
      print "Sorry, didn't manage to let anything survive"
      return 0,0,0

# test code

X = [
    [1, 0, 0, 0, 1],
    [0, 0, 0, 0, 0],
    [0, 0, 0, 0, 0],
    [0, 0, 0, 0, 0],
    [0, 0, 1, 0, 0]
]

if __name__ == '__main__':
    a=array(X)
    score, rowsel, colsel = pickrcs(a)
    print "score=",score
    for r in range(5):
        row = X[r]
        for c in range(5):
            if r in rowsel and c in colsel:
                print '<%s>'% row[c],
            else: 
                print ' %s '% row[c],
        print
    # now try for a larger problem - use a random pattern
    import RandomArray,time
    start=time.time()
    x0=1000  # problem size
    x1=600
    a=RandomArray.random((x0,x1))
    a=where(a>0.999,1,0)                # ~ 0.1% of elements are 1
    print "Using a large random matrix"
    print "Number of non-zeros=",sum(ravel(a)),"in",x0,"x",x1,"matrix"
    score, rowsel, colsel = pickrcs(a)
    print 'Score = %s' % (score)
    print 'Number of rows deleted=',a.shape[0]-rowsel.shape[0]
    print 'Number of columns deleted=',a.shape[1]-colsel.shape[0]
    print time.time()-start," seconds" 



==sample output (of course second part is random!)===============

score= 16
 1   0   0   0   1
<0> <0>  0  <0> <0>
<0> <0>  0  <0> <0>
<0> <0>  0  <0> <0>
<0> <0>  1  <0> <0>
Using a large random matrix
Number of non-zeros= 607 in 1000 x 600 matrix
Score = 331776
Number of rows deleted= 424
Number of columns deleted= 24
3.38999998569  seconds



From gh at ghaering.de  Mon Jul 14 16:28:16 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 22:28:16 +0200
Subject: Is there any clever solution?
In-Reply-To: <3F132A66.3211.D9B4A60@localhost>
References: <3F132A66.3211.D9B4A60@localhost>
Message-ID: <3F131260.30100@ghaering.de>

A wrote:
> Hi,
> I use a free webhosting. The problem is that if  a user visits my website, together with 
> index.html( my first webpage) also 2 other web pages with ads are open. Is it possible 
> somehow to prevent that? 

Sure, for you: get some proper hosting somewhere else. TANSTAAFL.

For the visitor: use a proper browser like Mozilla that can block popup ads.

> Or is it possible to close those 2 web pages (more or less full of 
> advertisements) and let only mine available?

If you read your Terms Of Service that's most certainly forbidden.

-- Gerhard




From fgeiger at datec.at  Tue Jul  1 14:22:08 2003
From: fgeiger at datec.at (F. GEIGER)
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 20:22:08 +0200
Subject: DOM with HTML
References: <3GbMa.4404$FI4.118833@tornado.fastwebnet.it>
Message-ID: <3f01d0d1@news.swissonline.ch>

> Hi, I need to get a sort of DOM from an HTML page that is declared as
XHTML
> but unfortunately is *not* xhtml valid.. If I try to parse it with

I use mx.Tidy in such cases, with great success.

Cheers
Franz


"Alessio Pace" <puccio_13 at yahoo.it> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:3GbMa.4404$FI4.118833 at tornado.fastwebnet.it...
> Hi, I need to get a sort of DOM from an HTML page that is declared as
XHTML
> but unfortunately is *not* xhtml valid.. If I try to parse it with
> xml.dom.minidom I get error with expat (as I supposed), so I was told to
> try in this way, with a "forgiving" html parser:
>
> from xml.dom.ext.reader import HtmlLib
> reader = HtmlLib.Reader()
> dom = reader.fromUri(url)       # 'url' the web page
>
> FIRST ISSUE:
> It seemed to me, reading the source code in
> $MY_PYTHON_INSTALLATION_DIR/site-packages/_xmlplus/dom/ext/reader/  ,
> that these are 4DOM APIs , so from what I know of python distributions,
they
> are extra packages, or not? I would like to use *only* libs that are
> available in the python2.2 suite, not any extra.
>
> SECOND ISSUE:
> If the above libs were included in python (and so I would continue using
> them), how do I print a string representation of a (sub) tree of the DOM?
I
> tried with .toxml() as in the XML tutorial but that method does not exist
> for the FtNode objects that are involved there... Any idea??
>
> Thanks so much for who can help me
>
> --
> bye
> Alessio Pace





From mwilson at the-wire.com  Wed Jul 30 14:08:36 2003
From: mwilson at the-wire.com (Mel Wilson)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 14:08:36 -0400
Subject: Syntax: pointers versus value
References: <3F27F673.3000801@mathstat.concordia.ca>
 <efufiv0a8p1vkfhqqtdgf2d84pusb7hjkt@4ax.com>
 <3F280475.3000500@mathstat.concordia.ca>
Message-ID: <kmAK/ks/Kn4F089yn@the-wire.com>

In article <3F280475.3000500 at mathstat.concordia.ca>,
Danny Castonguay <castong at mathstat.concordia.ca> wrote:
>Tino Lange wrote:
>> Use:
>> listB = listA[:]
>
>--------------------------------------------------------------------
>In the example I have given, it does solve the problem.  However, for
>some reason I don't understand, it doesn't work in the next example:
>
>def ps_of_missing_edges(initial_graph, missing_edges):
>	num_m_e = len(missing_edges) #number of missing_edges
>	num_e_pset = 2**num_m_e
>	graphs = []
>	for i in range(0,num_e_pset): #iteration will stop at 2^num-1
>		temp_i = i #use temp_i to find i's bit values
>		new_graph = initial_graph[:]
>		print 'initial_graph is ' + str(initial_graph)
>		for j in range (0,num_m_e):
>			if temp_i%2 == 1:
>				new_graph[missing_edges[j][0]-1].append(missing_edges[j][1])
>			temp_i = temp_i >> 1
>		graphs.append(new_graph)
>	return graphs
>
>--------------------------------------------------------------
>
>the output when I call:
>  ps_of_missing_edges([[2,3],[1],[1]], [[2,3],[3, 2]])
>is:
>	initial_graph is [[2, 3], [1], [1]]
>	initial_graph is [[2, 3], [1], [1]]
>	initial_graph is [[2, 3], [1, 3], [1]]
>	initial_graph is [[2, 3], [1, 3], [1, 2]]
>
>--------------------------------------------------------------
>Therefore, somehow initial_graph's value changes even though the
>assignment is new_graph = initial_graph[:]
>
>Assuming that the assignment does it's job, then I don't see how
>initial_graph's value changes.

   I don't know, but I think you'd better try copy.deepcopy
instead.  Looks like initial_graph and new_graph are sharing
mutable elements.

        Regards.        Mel.



From max at infobahn.ch  Tue Jul  8 10:00:07 2003
From: max at infobahn.ch (Zcam)
Date: 8 Jul 2003 07:00:07 -0700
Subject: PyIrc module
References: <20030707225250.7171.qmail@cs06.tgv.net> <200307072005.17077.shalehperry@comcast.net> <mailman.1057638011.21283.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a421ac24.0307080600.4ae3d9f0@posting.google.com>

Jp Calderone <exarkun at twistedmatrix.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.1057638011.21283.python-list at python.org>...
> On Mon, Jul 07, 2003 at 08:05:17PM -0700, Sean 'Shaleh' Perry wrote:
> > On Monday 07 July 2003 15:52, sylvain HELLEGOUARCH wrote:
> > > Hello everyone,
> > >
> > > This is my first message round here :)
> > >
> > > Well, my message is more or less an announcment of my pyirc module for
> > > Python (uh uh surprise this is the right place :)).
> > >
> > > This module tries to implement both RFC 1459 and 2812 about IRC protocol.
> > > I've decided to code my own module as Python has a lack of IRC ones.
> > > Generally speaking, either they are not up-to-date anylonger or they are
> > > written for a specific GUI.
> > >
> > 
> > not to downplay your work, but have you looked at Twisted? 
> > http://twistedmatrix.com/products/twisted
> > 
> 
>   Forget Twisted:
> 
>     http://python-irclib.sourceforge.net/
> 
>     http://sourceforge.net/projects/pyirclib/
> 
>     http://sk.nvg.org/python/irc_uninett/
> 
>     http://tarken.lyrical.net/programming/python/irclib_py.php
> 
>     http://linux.duke.edu/projects/kibot/contents/doc/kibot/kibot.irclib.html
> 
>   But hey, I guess everyone's entitled to write at least one IRC library...
> 
>   Jp
> 
> PS - Not to downplay etc

I dont know about Twisted, but the other existing python irc
implementations do not follow the rfc's specifications (not entirely).

Nice peace of work Sylvain .



From intentionally at blank.co.uk  Mon Jul 14 00:07:21 2003
From: intentionally at blank.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 05:07:21 +0100
Subject: anything like C++ references?
References: <000301c348c7$3c501980$21795418@dell1700> <qi13hv4s21i8mtr2e600jumm54hqs7tppu@4ax.com> <mailman.1058125699.26133.python-list@python.org> <sag3hv4vf884ed7ouu5cv8ofnopp9j1t12@4ax.com> <bet1sd$ibl$1@panix3.panix.com>
Message-ID: <sfa4hvkq1j7rg1iga5j3tk2cc4qpr6e5qk@4ax.com>

On 13 Jul 2003 21:43:41 -0400, aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) wrote:

>In article <sag3hv4vf884ed7ouu5cv8ofnopp9j1t12 at 4ax.com>,
>Stephen Horne  <intentionally at blank.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>In computer science, a variable is a named binding to a value.
>>Operations on that variable may rebind it to a different value, but
>>values don't change behind your back. A pointer is, in effect, a value
>>which indirectly refers to another (possibly anonymous) variable. A
>>pointer is something you specifically request, and by doing so you
>>allow that the 'variable' being indirectly referenced may be modified
>>by something else that has no direct access to your pointer value (via
>>your named variable or via copys or pointers-to your pointer held
>>elsewhere).
>>
>>Python should respect that.
>
>That's why I (and others) prefer to use "name" and "target" instead of
>"variable".  Would that assuage your ire?

Not really, for reasons defined elsewhere. The problem isn't
theoretical - it is practical, as shown by the fact that people do
trip over it time and time again. I'm just saying that the problem
arises out of peoples intuition of how variables should work - an
intuition that matches very well with theory.

If there is a clear concept of the right thing expressed in theory
which happens to match common intuitions, and if the wrong thing tends
to lead to subtle errors in functions that act differently depending
on whether the values passed in happen to be of mutable or immutable
types, all I can do is refer back to the arguments used against me
back in PEP238 when the majority *wanted* to make the massively
incompatible change on the grounds of theory, intuition and
reliability.




From BPettersen at NAREX.com  Wed Jul 23 18:29:56 2003
From: BPettersen at NAREX.com (Bjorn Pettersen)
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 16:29:56 -0600
Subject: Reading Keyboard Scan Codes
Message-ID: <60FB8BB7F0EFC7409B75EEEC13E2019202CE4706@admin56.narex.com>

> From: Fran?ois Pinard [mailto:pinard at iro.umontreal.ca] 
> 
> [Michael Bendzick]
> 
> > Is there a simple way in python to read a keyboard scan 
> > code?  I'm working on a shell script that interfaces 
> > with a proprietary keyboard device (extra buttons) and 
> > need to be able to distinguish between those keys.
> 
> Within Linux in console mode, you merely do:

[...]

> However, I do not know if reading scan codes or key codes is 
> easily done within X, nor on MS-Windows.  I would like finding or 
> discovering recipes in this area.  So, please share your tricks 
> in this area, if any! :-)
[...]

I'm assuming you can use the msvcrt module:

>>> def getch():
...     import msvcrt
...     while not msvcrt.kbhit(): pass
...     return msvcrt.getch()
...
>>> getch()
'a'
>>>

-- bjorn




From bokr at oz.net  Thu Jul 31 21:13:25 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 1 Aug 2003 01:13:25 GMT
Subject: How to get Windows physical RAM using python?
References: <bg90lh$bkp$1@news3.bu.edu> <bg92o2$onr$1@news3.bu.edu> <bg9btk$5ia$06$1@news.t-online.com> <bgbl25$4v6$0@216.39.172.122> <bgc756$kh7$1@arachne.labyrinth.net.au>
Message-ID: <bgcerl$25u$0@216.39.172.122>

On Fri, 01 Aug 2003 09:02:03 +1000, Mark Hammond <mhammond at skippinet.com.au> wrote:

>Why not submit that as a patch to win32all <wink>?
>
>Mark.
>
You mean just posting to c.l.py doesn't go anywhere? ;-)

Anyway, don't know how to submit path to win32all. Plus how do you test something like that?

Already the 0 for percentage of memory in use that I got seemed funny, but maybe
it's a percentage of total possible maxed-out page file virtual.

Seems like it needs a little ageing at least? I thought someone might spot something.

I meant to look into win32all, but this is all the further I got ;-/

03-05-31  16:24  3,971,152 E:\DownLoad\Python\win32all-152.exe

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From mike at nospam.com  Wed Jul 30 20:02:42 2003
From: mike at nospam.com (Mike Rovner)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 17:02:42 -0700
Subject: Dict to "flat" list of (key,value)
References: <pan.2003.07.30.19.26.18.41642@removethis.nerim.net>
Message-ID: <bg9mav$bu7$1@main.gmane.org>

Nicolas Girard wrote:
> Forgive me if the answer is trivial, but could you tell me how to
> achieve the following:
>
> {k1:[v1,v2],k2:v3,...} --> [[k1,v1],[k1,v2],[k2,v3],...]

[list(i) for i in d.items()]

Mike







From hwlgw at hotmail.com  Tue Jul 22 02:38:12 2003
From: hwlgw at hotmail.com (Will Stuyvesant)
Date: 21 Jul 2003 23:38:12 -0700
Subject: How to save web pages for offline reading?
References: <cb035744.0307210131.5cfbc890@posting.google.com> <bfge1v$e6v86$1@ID-63505.news.uni-berlin.de> <cb035744.0307210848.6b1328d1@posting.google.com> <slrnbho797.u9.sybrenUSE@sybren.thirdtower.com>
Message-ID: <cb035744.0307212238.2ea9c46@posting.google.com>

> [Sybren Stuvel]
> do "man wget" and you'll soon find out that there is an option to
> download all required files. Hint:
> 
> --page-requisites
> 	This option causes Wget to download all the files that are necessary
> 	to properly display a given HTML page.  This includes such things as
> 	inlined images, sounds, and referenced stylesheets.

There is no "man wget" on Windows :-)
And unfortunately the GNU Windows port of wget I have (version
1-5-3-1) does not have that --page-requisites parameter.

I thought this whole thing would be easy with all those Python
internet modules in the standard distro: httplib, urllib, urllib2,
FancyURLxxx etc.  Being able to download a "complete" page *from
Python source* would be very nice for my particular application.

-- 
Behold the warranty ... the bold print giveth and the fine print
taketh away.



From paulpaterson at users.sourceforge.net  Fri Jul 25 22:01:33 2003
From: paulpaterson at users.sourceforge.net (Paul Paterson)
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 02:01:33 GMT
Subject: How safe is modifying locals()?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1059168446.20696.python-list@python.org>
References: <BDcUa.100193$XV.6037947@twister.austin.rr.com> <mailman.1059168446.20696.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1ilUa.102161$XV.6096085@twister.austin.rr.com>

Steven Taschuk wrote:

> Quoth Paul Paterson:
>   [...]
> 
>>Does anyone have any alternative strategies for trying to achieve the 
>>objective? A "Pythonic" approach such as,
>>
>>def change(x, y):
>>    x = x + 1
>>    y = y + 1
>>    return y
>>
>>x = 0; y = 0
>>y = change(x, y)
>>
>>Works in a single threaded environment but, because the value of 'y' 
>>changes at the wrong time, with multiple threads there is a possibility 
>>that two users of 'y' could dissagree on its value.
> 
> 
> Even if the simple
>     y = y + 1
> could change the caller's binding, there would be a race condition
> -- you'll need a lock anyway.  (I'd be a bit surprised if this
> were not so in VB as well.  Are statements atomic in VB?)
> 

AFAIK in VB, if 'y' is a global (or in some other way accessible via two 
threads) then concurrent changes are managed behind the scenes by VB - 
presumably either some locking is occuring or the assignment statement 
is atomic. To be honest though, I'm not sure. Threading usually occurs 
either by using timers or COM. I have seen issues where you have to 
manually implement semaphores when using timers and COM together.

That asside, you make an excellent point. The thread safety and ByRef 
issues are probably orthogonal and I should probably look for two 
complementary solutions.





From Nicolas.nospam.Girard at removethis.nerim.net  Wed Jul 30 15:26:19 2003
From: Nicolas.nospam.Girard at removethis.nerim.net (Nicolas Girard)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 21:26:19 +0200
Subject: Dict to "flat" list of (key,value)
Message-ID: <pan.2003.07.30.19.26.18.41642@removethis.nerim.net>

Hi,

Forgive me if the answer is trivial, but could you tell me how to achieve
the following:

{k1:[v1,v2],k2:v3,...} --> [[k1,v1],[k1,v2],[k2,v3],...]

The subtle point (at least to me) is to "flatten" values that are lists.

Thanks in advance,
Nicolas



----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups
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From g2h5dqi002 at sneakemail.com  Thu Jul 24 02:55:55 2003
From: g2h5dqi002 at sneakemail.com (Greg Ewing (using news.cis.dfn.de))
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 18:55:55 +1200
Subject: How to link a C extension module on Mac OS X?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1058972255.22070.python-list@python.org>
References: <ef08387c.0307230528.441883e1@posting.google.com> <mailman.1058972255.22070.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bfnu36$gptcg$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>

Gerhard H?ring wrote:
> Two words: Use distutils.

And it turns out that, rather unintuitively, the way distutils
does it is that it *doesn't* try to create a dynamic library,
just an ordinary object file named with a .so suffix...

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg




From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Wed Jul 16 16:51:38 2003
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 16 Jul 2003 16:51:38 -0400
Subject: Augmented Assignment question
References: <215bhv0bnkn13eivh0s64ic5ml8obpgfg7@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <bf4dsq$m0o$1@panix3.panix.com>

In article <215bhv0bnkn13eivh0s64ic5ml8obpgfg7 at 4ax.com>,
Doug Tolton  <dtolton at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>I did some reading and it seems that an augmented assignment is
>specifically verboten on tuples and lists.  Is there a clean way to
>accomplish this?  

Really?

>>> l = []
>>> l+=[1]
>>> l
[1]
>>> l+=['foo']
>>> l
[1, 'foo']
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

A: No.
Q: Is top-posting okay?



From pythonguy at Hotpop.com  Tue Jul 29 09:14:06 2003
From: pythonguy at Hotpop.com (Anand Pillai)
Date: 29 Jul 2003 06:14:06 -0700
Subject: Voting Project Needs Python People
References: <LDVSa.14955$Mc.1126731@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <5ab0af73.0307211623.6e12f807@posting.google.com> <Rx%Sa.15557$Mc.1169683@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <84fc4588.0307290514.54d68563@posting.google.com>

I am ready to join this project. As for knowing python I guess
I do.

Before you take my word for it take a look at my homepage
at http://members.lycos.co.uk/anandpillai.

I dont need money, just free beer and pizza ;-) (joking)

~Anand


"Alan Dechert" <adechert at earthlink.net> wrote in message news:<Rx%Sa.15557$Mc.1169683 at newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>...
> "Matt Shomphe" <MatthewS at HeyAnita.com> wrote in message
> news:5ab0af73.0307211623.6e12f807 at posting.google.com...
> > "Alan Dechert" <adechert at earthlink.net> wrote in message
>  news:<LDVSa.14955$Mc.1126731 at newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>...
> >
> > > We have an excellent team together.  We're looking for a few good Python
> > > coders willing to volunteer for this free open source project.  It will
>  be
> > > on sourceforge.net later today.
> >
> > Are there any prerequisites for joining the team?
> >
> It would be nice if you know some Python.  Do you?
> 
> BTW, I'm told it will take a day or two to get the project going on
> sourceforge.net.
> 
> Alan Dechert



From rastm2 at aol.commorespam  Sun Jul 20 14:49:19 2003
From: rastm2 at aol.commorespam (Raymond Arthur St. Marie II of III )
Date: 20 Jul 2003 18:49:19 GMT
Subject: ANN: zip-ls -- Zip file listing program
References: <bfa3e8$ctqja$1@ID-139865.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <20030720144919.18124.00000263@mb-m15.aol.com>

Dave writes:

>I've implemented a Zip file listing program that gives me some of
>the listing and formatting options that I've wanted from "unzip
>-l" and "unzip -Z".  It's written in Python using the zipfile
>module from the Python standard library.

Dave, you might like to mention the fact that Python2.3 can now import from zip
files.

zipimport - import modules from zipfiles, implemented in C by Just van Rossum
based upon earlier code by James Ahlstrom. (New in 2.3a2: several serious bugs
discovered in 2.3a1 fixed.) 


--Ray St.M
Proudly stating the obvious since birth


>You can find it here:
>
>    http://www.rexx.com/~dkuhlman/#zip-ls
>    http://www.rexx.com/~dkuhlman/zip-ls.html
>    http://www.rexx.com/~dkuhlman/zip-ls.zip





From jaraco at nospamsandia.gov  Wed Jul  2 11:52:16 2003
From: jaraco at nospamsandia.gov (Jason R. Coombs)
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 09:52:16 -0600
Subject: Win32 Extensions: problem with ADO.Command.Execute() options
Message-ID: <bduv31$g2q$1@sass2141.sandia.gov>

I'm hoping this is a coding error on my part, but I've encountered a problem with parameters that I cannot understand.  Perhaps someone out there might be willing to assist me with some suggestions.

First, here is some VB code that correctly does what I want to do:

--------------------------- begin cmdtest.vbs
Dim cn
Dim rs
Dim cmd

Set cn = CreateObject( "ADODB.Connection" )
cn.Open( "Provider=SQLOLEDB;Data Source=(local);Initial Catalog=Environmental Monitoring;Integrated Security=SSPI" )

Set rs = CreateObject( "ADODB.Stream" )
rs.Open()

Set cmd = CreateObject( "ADODB.Command" )

cmd.ActiveConnection = cn          
cmd.Properties("Output Stream").Value = rs
cmd.CommandText = "SELECT * FROM [Sources] for XML AUTO"

cmd.Execute , , 1024 'adExecuteStream

rs.Position = 0
WScript.Echo rs.ReadText()
--------------------------- end cmdtest.vbs

Here is partial output I get:
C:\>cscript cmdtest.vbs
Microsoft (R) Windows Script Host Version 5.6
Copyright (C) Microsoft Corporation 1996-2001. All rights reserved.

<Sources ID="1" Name="South Asia" Type="7"/><Sources ID="2" Name="Japan" Type="2"/>...



Now, if I attempt to do the same thing in python, it returns no output.
------------------------- begin cmdtest.py
import ADO, sys

cn = ADO.Connection()
cn.Open( "Provider=SQLOLEDB;Data Source=(local);Initial Catalog=Environmental Monitoring;Integrated Security=SSPI" )

rs = ADO.Stream()
rs.Open()

cmd = ADO.Command()

cmd.ActiveConnection = cn          
cmd.Properties("Output Stream").Value = rs
cmd.CommandText = "SELECT * FROM [Sources] for XML AUTO"

cmd.Execute( Options = ADO.constants.adExecuteStream )

rs.Position = 0
sys.stdout.write( rs.ReadText() ) # prints nothing
------------------------- end cmdtest.py

If I pass no parameters to cmd.Execute in the VBScript verison, I get no output.  Other tests have further led me to conclude that the constant value 1024 is not being properly passed to ADO.Command.Execute in the Python version only.

Here are some other points of information:
  a.. Using the literal 1024 in the Python code instead of the constant reference make no difference.
  b.. The VBScript code does not recognize adExecuteStream by name.
  c.. Using win32com.client.Dispatch( 'ADODB.*' ) to create the objects (instead of ADO.py created from make PY) yields the same results.
  d.. Using a different PROVIDER in the connection (such as SQLXMLOLEDB) will yield different results, but still indicates that the 'adExecuteStream' is not being set proprly.
  e.. I'm using "Microsoft ActiveX Data Objects 2.8 Library" for the ADO.  I've tried using v2.5, but get identical results.
  f.. The first parameter to ADO.Command.Execute appears to be an [out] parameter, but the documentation is confusing and I haven't seen the first parameter used anywhere.

Any insight into this problem would be most appreciated.

Regards,
Jason R. Coombs
Sandia National Laboratories
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From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Jul  7 11:48:33 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 11:48:33 -0400
Subject: Reverse Engineering of Windows Distribution
References: <bebuo8$h80$07$1@news.t-online.com> <3F098251.426DB151@engcorp.com> <bec0t7$4mj$04$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <3F099651.5D3C74D1@engcorp.com>

Markus Stenzel wrote:
> 
> Product : Experimental BitTorrent Client (c)Bram Cohen
> Modified: Eike Frost http://ei.kefro.st/projects/btclient/
> License : MIT
> Source  : Available (3.1-CVS-4, 3.2-1, 3.2.1b-1, 3.2.1b-2)
> 
> The Experimental BitTorrent is a GUI upgrade of the well known
> BitTorrent file swarming application (c)Bram Cohen and released under
> the MIT license.
> 
> Eike Frost modified the software to allow "bandwidth capping" to be
> selected from the GUI to allow ACK messages to pass the upstream during
> normal operation thus increasing overall efficiency.
> 
> However all versions mentioned above in the line starting with "Source"
> _DO NOT_ run on Linux. 3.1-CVS-3, 3.2-1 and 3.2.1b-1 produce error
> messages due to a few bugs handling the command line parameters.
> 
> The 3.2.1b-2 client DOES work on Linux but is running slowly and works
> for single files only. When working with "batch torrents" it routinely
> hangs during operation (even if it's not touched after it's launch)
> 
> The author Eike Frost doesn't offer the pre-3.1-CVS-3 source.
> 
> The windows version we have installed on Win32 is a pre 3-1-CVS-4
> version. Now guess what.. ;))
> 
>  > Technically it is possible, but it's not trivial, and seems like
>  > a pretty bizarre thing to do if the author didn't intend it to
>  > be used on Linux in the first place.  (Which we can infer from the
>  > choice of distribution method.)
> 
> I hope the additional background info might make you giving a few little
> hints? *hopes*

So basically the problem is that the versions for which source is available
do not work, but you have a version which works, so you'd like to try getting
it running under Linux. (?)

If that's so, maybe you can isolate the problem to a single file?  Extracting
a single .pyc file from the .exe might be relatively easy, even if you had
to basically do it manually.

The packaging process used might be useful to know: was it py2exe, or the 
Macmillan Installer?

Note, in case you weren't aware, that you won't actually get back the 
*source*, such that you could easily modify it and recompile.  You'll
get back the compiled (bytecode) file, which you could put into a .pyc
file and run in place of the "bad" .py file which you have... at least
in theory.

Retrieving the source itself is even more involved.  It requires
decompiling (see "decompyle"), although if you go that route you should
get back something very close to the original.  Maybe even enough for you
to do a "diff" and patch the latest version to work again?

Sounds like a lot of work though.  Wouldn't it be easier to work with
the author to fix the problem in the supported versions, and use them?

-Peter



From alan.gauld at btinternet.com  Thu Jul 10 17:21:54 2003
From: alan.gauld at btinternet.com (Alan Gauld)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 21:21:54 GMT
Subject: no python mode for my gvim
References: <3097082.1057868612@dbforums.com>
Message-ID: <3f0dd87c.269088789@news.blueyonder.co.uk>

On Thu, 10 Jul 2003 20:23:32 +0000, pygeek
<member32992 at dbforums.com> wrote:

> "E370: Could not load library python21.dll
> I have Python 2.2.2 running and what concerns me is that,
> I only have the file 'python22.dll' in C:\Windows\System32 and not
> 'python21.dll' as
> required by gvim. How do i go about loading the .dll file for gvim?

I guess you need to install a copy of Python 2.1 somewhere. You
can delete all the docs and samples if space is tight...

[ Or you might try finding the call to load the DLL
(loadlibrary()?)and change the name if its hard coded, but I
dunno if that will work, its probably too simple! ]

Alan g.
Alan g.
http://www.freenetpages.co.uk/hp/alan.gauld/



From nhodgson at bigpond.net.au  Fri Jul 25 19:36:20 2003
From: nhodgson at bigpond.net.au (Neil Hodgson)
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 23:36:20 GMT
Subject: Static typing
References: <3f218ef1$0$27926$626a54ce@news.free.fr> <3f219c8d$1@nntp0.pdx.net> <mailman.1059169958.20638.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <U9jUa.14576$OM3.4395@news-server.bigpond.net.au>

Shane Hathaway:

> Well, here's a pattern I've been trying out for this purpose: use assert
> statements at the top of the function.
>
> def foo(bar, baz):
>      assert isinstance(bar, int)
>      assert isinstance(baz, str)

   The Wing IDE will read assertions of the above form and provide more
assistance than with identifiers it knows nothing about:
http://wingide.com/psupport/wingide-1.1/node5.html#SECTION005800000000000000
00

   Neil





From JWellington at wbta.org  Tue Jul 22 09:36:48 2003
From: JWellington at wbta.org (Jim Wellington)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 09:36:48 -0400
Subject: Quick question.
Message-ID: <200307221337.h6MDb1N26314@elton.siteprotect.com>

Can you help? I am trying to find a good list broker and also need some email appending done. I did a quick search and understand that you provide or might be able to refer me to a good provider. Can you take a second to add this information to our supplier database? I will then follow-up and contact that person. Below is the form. Thank you in advance.

Regards,
Jim Wellington
WBTA "The national association of CEOs and Training Executives"
JWellington at wbta.org
www.wbta.org

IMPORTANT: FIRST OPEN THIS MESSAGE IN A NEW WINDOW
(OUTLOOK PREVIEW PANE NOT RECOMMENDED)

Service: List Broker Email Appending Other First: Last: Company: Email: Web Site: Phone: 
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From pyth at devel.trillke.net  Tue Jul 15 03:07:53 2003
From: pyth at devel.trillke.net (holger krekel)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 09:07:53 +0200
Subject: path module
In-Reply-To: <182bcf76.0307141319.7b6fed7a@posting.google.com>; from paul.moore@atosorigin.com on Mon, Jul 14, 2003 at 02:19:37PM -0700
References: <1057651068.5348.386.camel@lothlorien> <mailman.1057656790.5578.python-list@python.org> <182bcf76.0307141319.7b6fed7a@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20030715090753.M6906@prim.han.de>

Paul Moore wrote:
> holger krekel <pyth at devel.trillke.net> wrote in message news:<mailman.1057656790.5578.python-list at python.org>...
> > I agree that something like Jason Orendorff's path module should go into
> > the standard library.  I've coded a similar module and i think that
> > a discussion about certain design decisions would probably improve our
> > approaches. 
> 
> Is it available anywhere? It would be nice to be able to try both, for comparison.

sorry, not right now.  I'll try to make a release soonish.

    holger




From bokr at oz.net  Tue Jul 22 01:09:18 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 22 Jul 2003 05:09:18 GMT
Subject: Flat file to associative array.
References: <pan.2003.07.21.05.02.47.924820@antispam.com>
Message-ID: <bfigtu$ivd$0@216.39.172.122>

On Mon, 21 Jul 2003 01:02:49 -0400, "Alex" <bogus at antispam.com> wrote:

>Hello,
>
>What would be the best way to convert a flat file of products into
>a multi-dimensional array? The flat file looks like this:
>
>Beer|Molson|Dry|4.50
>Beer|Molson|Export|4.50
>Shot|Scotch|Macallan18|18.50
>Shot|Regular|Jameson|3.00
>
>I've managed to read the file properly and get the individual lines
>into a list, but I've got to turn this list into something that can
>be stored in memory like a dictionary / associative array so I can
>properly display the data.
>
The problem is 'way underspecified AFAICS.
Imagine a magic black box that loads the data into itself, never mind
how represented. What do you want to ask of the black box?
(I was going to do an OO approach, but just tweaked your code a bit ;-)

What does "properly display" mean? All the data at once? Selected? How selected?
What do you want displays to look like? Why do you say multi-dimensional array?
Is the input a tree/outline, the way it appears to be?

>Here's the code I have so far:
>
Suggest upgrade to 2.2.2 or better ...
>[Code]
>#! /usr/bin/python
>
>import string
 \_won't need__
>
>file = open("definitions", "r")
 infile = file('definitions')  # file is new name for creating file objects, 'r' is default
>
 ___________________    
/
>while 1:
>    line = file.readline()
>    if not line:
>        break
>    else:
\____________________
 # replace above by
 products = {} # root directory
 for line in infile:
>        data = string.split(line, '|')
         data = line.split('|')
         ... etc see below
 ___________________________________________
/
>        item = dict([('product', data[0])])
>        print "You want a " + item['product'] +
>         ". What kind?  " + data[1] + " for $" +
>        data[3] + " ... right?"
>
\___________________________________________
???

>file.close()
>[/Code]
>

====< flat2tree.py >=========================================
import StringIO
infile = StringIO.StringIO("""\
Beer|Molson|Dry|4.50
Beer|Molson|Export|4.50
Shot|Scotch|Macallan18|18.50
Shot|Regular|Jameson|3.00
This line should be rejected.
Beer|Virtual|c.l.py|Priceless ;-)
""")
# infile = file('definitions')  # file is new name for creating file objects, 'r' is default

def makeTree(infile):
    products = {} # root directory
    for line in infile:
        data = line.strip().split('|')
        if not data: continue
        if len(data)<2:
            print 'Rejecting data line: %r'%line
            continue
        currnode = products
        for kind in data[:-2]:
            currnode = currnode.setdefault(kind, {})
        currnode[data[-2]] = data[-1] # assumes unique kind->price at end of lines
    return products
    
# print sorted outline ?
def pso(node, indent=0):
    if not isinstance(node, dict):
        print '%s%s'% ('  '*indent, node)
    else:
        nodenames = node.keys()
        nodenames.sort()
        for name in nodenames:
            print '%s%s'% ('  '*indent, name)
            pso(node[name], indent+1)

if __name__ == '__main__':
    import sys
    print
    if sys.argv[1:]: infile = file(sys.argv[1])
    products = makeTree(infile)
    infile.close()
    print '\nSorted product outline:'
    pso(products)
    print '\n---- the product dict -----\n', products
=============================================================
Maybe this will give you a start. Running it makes this result:

[22:09] C:\pywk\clp>flat2tree.py

Rejecting data line: 'This line should be rejected.\n'

Sorted product outline:
Beer
  Molson
    Dry
      4.50
    Export
      4.50
  Virtual
    c.l.py
      Priceless ;-)
Shot
  Regular
    Jameson
      3.00
  Scotch
    Macallan18
      18.50

---- the product dict -----
{'Beer': {'Virtual': {'c.l.py': 'Priceless ;-)'}, 'Molson': {'Dry': '4.50', 'Export': '4.50'}}
'Shot': {'Regular': {'Jameson': '3.00'}, 'Scotch': {'Macallan18': '18.50'}}}

[22:09] C:\pywk\clp>

Note that the prices aren't converted to actual numbers, they are still in string form.

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From paoloinvernizzi at dmsware.com  Tue Jul 15 04:45:45 2003
From: paoloinvernizzi at dmsware.com (Paolo Invernizzi)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 10:45:45 +0200
Subject: path module
In-Reply-To: <20030715090753.M6906@prim.han.de>
References: <1057651068.5348.386.camel@lothlorien> <mailman.1057656790.5578.python-list@python.org> <182bcf76.0307141319.7b6fed7a@posting.google.com> <20030715090753.M6906@prim.han.de>
Message-ID: <bf0eu1$v30$1@main.gmane.org>

holger krekel wrote:

> Paul Moore wrote:
> 
>>holger krekel <pyth at devel.trillke.net> wrote in message news:<mailman.1057656790.5578.python-list at python.org>...
>>
>>>I agree that something like Jason Orendorff's path module should go into
>>>the standard library.  I've coded a similar module and i think that
>>>a discussion about certain design decisions would probably improve our
>>>approaches. 
>>
>>Is it available anywhere? It would be nice to be able to try both, for comparison.
> 
> 
> sorry, not right now.  I'll try to make a release soonish.
> 
>     holger
> 

I cannot access the path.py module from 
http://www.jorendorff.com/articles/python/path/

Someone can be so kind to email it to me?

Thanks in advance!

---
Paolo Invernizzi
paoloinvernizzi at dmsware.com






From bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au  Thu Jul 10 21:06:05 2003
From: bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au (Ben Finney)
Date: 11 Jul 2003 10:56:05 +0950
Subject: Securing 'pickle'
References: <pan.2003.07.11.01.20.47.998070@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <slrnbgs4hc.hop.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>

On Fri, 11 Jul 2003 13:20:48 +1200, David McNab wrote:
> I'm writing a web app framework which stores pickles in client
> cookies.

Sounds like a waste of bandwidth, in addition to the security concerns
you raise.

Why not store the pickles on the server, and set a session cookie to
refer to them?  That way, you only send a short session ID instead of
the whole pickle, and messing with the cookie doesn't alter the pickles.

(Mmm, all this talk of food...)

-- 
 \       "I don't know anything about music. In my line you don't have |
  `\                          to."  -- Elvis Aaron Presley (1935-1977) |
_o__)                                                                  |
http://bignose.squidly.org/ 9CFE12B0 791A4267 887F520C B7AC2E51 BD41714B



From jon+usenet at unequivocal.co.uk  Tue Jul  8 12:47:35 2003
From: jon+usenet at unequivocal.co.uk (Jon Ribbens)
Date: 8 Jul 2003 16:47:35 GMT
Subject: Python vs PHP
References: <mailman.1057574470.1750.python-list@python.org> <kmolgv4mp12o71ocion7ra0m2s9fcrqjdk@4ax.com> <slrnbglqp8.os1.jon+usenet@snowy.squish.net> <h7rlgvkogjr3t8geb36v6jjk4u5n9cdm2s@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <slrnbgltd7.os1.jon+usenet@snowy.squish.net>

In article <h7rlgvkogjr3t8geb36v6jjk4u5n9cdm2s at 4ax.com>, Afanasiy wrote:
>>Try jonpy (http://jonpy.sf.net/), it solves all of the above.
>>Also you may find FastCGI (which jonpy supports) helps with your
>>"safe mode" problem, although it might require a bit of hackery.
> 
> No, CGI is not an option and I tried jonpy. I kept my notes about it...

The only similarity between FastCGI and CGI is the name. FastCGI is
just as fast, if not faster, than mod_python in my experience. jonpy
lets you use CGI or FastCGI or mod_python interchangeably anyway.



From gtalvola at nameconnector.com  Tue Jul 15 17:28:40 2003
From: gtalvola at nameconnector.com (Geoffrey Talvola)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 17:28:40 -0400
Subject: Thread suddenly stops in NT Service
Message-ID: <61957B071FF421419E567A28A45C7FE59AF551@mailbox.nameconnector.com>

matthew.rapoport at accenture.com wrote:
> I'm running an NT service with a thread.  The thread performs a
> calculation every so often and appends the number to a text file.
> Every so often the thread just stops - or so it seems.  The text file
> stops getting numbers added to it but the service is still running and
> no errors have been thrown.  I'm quite sure that the code would catch
> an error and post it to the event viewer if one were arising.
> 
> The only other relevant points I can think of are that the thread runs
> a while 1: loop and is set to run as a Daemon.  The service waits only
> for the stop command.  It doesn't seem to be operating system specific
> (happens on both XP and 2000).  It doesn't seem to be file size
> specific, it stops at various file sizes ranging from 5K - 50K.  It
> doesn't seem to be time specific - sometimes it'll stop after about a
> day.  Sometimes it'll stop after two days.
> 
> Any help would be great.  Thx.

Make sure that you're not intentionally or unintentionally writing to
sys.stdout or sys.stderr in your service -- those are not valid file
objects.  That will definitely cause a traceback, which could crash your
thread, but not until you've written enough for it to try to flush its
internal buffers, which could be the reason why your service is able to run
for a while before it stops.  In my service code I usually avoid the problem
by adding something like:

        sys.stdout = sys.stderr = open('nul', 'w')

in the __init__ of my service class, perhaps with an option to write to a
logfile instead of just throwing away the output.  Too bad the service
framework doesn't do this automatically...

- Geoff




From spam at fisher.forestry.uga.edu  Thu Jul 17 14:57:27 2003
From: spam at fisher.forestry.uga.edu (Chris Fonnesbeck)
Date: 17 Jul 2003 11:57:27 -0700
Subject: scrollback in macpython
Message-ID: <c3835e5f.0307171057.b1fcd96@posting.google.com>

Is there any way of getting scrollback to work in MacPython 2.3b2? At
present, when I try and scroll back to re-issue a past command using
the up arrow key, I simply get a series of "^[[A" symbols. Very
annoying, Any tips most appreciated.

cjf



From BPettersen at NAREX.com  Fri Jul 25 18:03:56 2003
From: BPettersen at NAREX.com (Bjorn Pettersen)
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 16:03:56 -0600
Subject: Static typing
Message-ID: <60FB8BB7F0EFC7409B75EEEC13E2019202CE4739@admin56.narex.com>

> From: Bruno Desthuilliers [mailto:bdesth.nospam at removeme.free.fr] 
> 
> Michael Muller wrote:
> > Is there currently any plan to introduce static typing in any future
> > version of Python?  
> 
> AARGGHHHH ! NO !! DON'T DO THAT !!! NEVER AGAIN !!!!
> 
> (sorry, uncontrolable nervous reaction... 3 valiums latter... : )
> 
> > (I'm not entirely sure that "static typing" is the right
> > term: what I'm talking about is the declaration of types 
> > for variables, parameters and function return values).
> 
> This is the right term. This is also the wrong thing for Python IMHO.

Almost. It's "explicit static typing" (vs. e.g. SML which has "implicit
static typing").

> > I know there was a "types SIG" which introduced several 
> > proposals, but it expired quite a while ago, and I was 
> > wondering whether whether some consensus has been reached 
> > on the subject 
> 
> <flame-war-mode='on'>
> Yes :
> dynamic typing is good a Good Thing(tm),
> static typing is Evil(tm) !-)
> </flame-war-mode>

who:    implicit/explicit/both
when:   compile-time/run-time/both/neither
what:   check-all/check-some/check-none

choose one from each column'ly y'rs
-- bjorn




From ambiod at sbcglobal.net  Mon Jul 21 16:15:57 2003
From: ambiod at sbcglobal.net (ryan)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 13:15:57 -0700
Subject: encoding error
Message-ID: <001501c34fc5$05997300$53fefea9@h5p1n4>

1) i have a function that i made in one of my program's modules named
"input_box.py" that uses unicode:

def get_key():
    while 1:
        event = pygame.event.poll()
        if event.type == KEYDOWN:
            ev_unicode = event.unicode
            if type(ev_unicode) == types.UnicodeType:
                if ev_unicode == '':
                    ev_unicode = 0
                else:
                    ev_unicode = ord(ev_unicode)
            value = unichr(ev_unicode).encode('latin1')
            return (event.key, value)
        else:
            pass
------------------
2) i use py2exe to compile it with the option for encodings, like the docs
say:

python setup.py py2exe --packages encodings
--------
3) I still get the error:
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<string>", line 110, in ?
  File "<string>", line 82, in main
  File "handle_keyboard.pyc", line 113, in handle_keyboard
  File "open_url.pyc", line 126, in open_url
  File "input_box.pyc", line 53, in ask
  File "input_box.pyc", line 21, in get_key
LookupError: no codec search functions registered: can't find encoding
------
4) Aren't I only supposed to get the above error "LookupError: no codec
search functions registered: can't find encoding" if i did NOT compile with
"--packages encodings"?
-----
5) Why am i still getting this error when i run the exe? I do not get it
when i just run the source





From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Mon Jul 14 20:00:45 2003
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 14 Jul 2003 20:00:45 -0400
Subject: Which Python Book
References: <3F134200.8060708@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <bevg7d$5kq$1@panix3.panix.com>

In article <3F134200.8060708 at hotmail.com>,
hokiegal99  <hokiegal99 at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>I have an option, I can buy either O'reilly's "Python in a Nutshell" or 
>"Python Cookbook", but not both. Which book is better? I'm leaning 
>toward "Python Cookbook" right now, as it seems more applied. A college 
>professor once told me that Romans liked to build roads while Greeks 
>liked to talk about *how* to build roads. I'm more of a Roman than a Greek.

If you want lots of code, get the Cookbook.  If you want a
reference-in-a-book, get Nutshell.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"Not everything in life has a clue in front of it...."  --JMS



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Thu Jul 24 16:22:57 2003
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 16:22:57 -0400
Subject: How to import hackicon.dll
References: <8a5a6d82.0307240417.494caa13@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <gIecnXTqGdW_3b2iXTWJhw@comcast.com>

"Sonia Rovner" <srovner at us.ibm.com> wrote in message
news:8a5a6d82.0307240417.494caa13 at posting.google.com...
> I'm using Python2.2.1 and Tcl/Tk 8.3 running on Win2000.  I've been
> researching how to change the icon on the title bar and found that
> hackicon is the one I should pursue.  However, hackicon package uses
a
> dll.  When I run the hi.py, I get an error saying
>     ImportError: DLL load failed: The specified module could not be
> found.
> I copied hackicon.dll to various directories in my pythonpath but
> nothing happens.

Unless hackicon.dll was specifically compiled to by Python importable,
the import should fail.  You probably need to wrap it.  I believe both
the calldll and ctypes third-party modules will work.  Either google
web andor newgroup for more info or wait for more informed answer
here.

Terry J. Reedy





From martin at v.loewis.de  Mon Jul 21 18:36:23 2003
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-15?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 22 Jul 2003 00:36:23 +0200
Subject: A challenge to the ASCII proponents.
References: <mailman.1058278343.23104.python-list@python.org> <bf167a$pvt$1@panix2.panix.com> <ufzl7rdno.fsf@online.no> <3F142A58.80426AA4@hotmail.com> <2259b0e2.0307161620.4a9353f1@posting.google.com> <Xns93BB246FDDBCFJanC@213.118.75.80> <3F168011.3AEB3EFC@hotmail.com> <3F172442.2040907@v.loewis.de> <oprsg8jf1xttxc4i@news.t-online.de> <3F195CC4.D426E416@hotmail.com> <slrnbhjm31.tp.bignose-hates-spam@rose.localdomain.fake> <3F1AA450.765D07FD@hotmail.com> <slrnbhmt6t.si4.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local> <3F1BB7A3.D4223855@hotmail.com> <bfhkel$mmp$0@216.39.172.122> <3F1C5A3F.962BC15E@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <m3ispv33tk.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Alan Kennedy <alanmk at hotmail.com> writes:

> http://xhaus.com/?cinn?ide
> 
> If I use the latter, then that's an illegal URI.

However, it is a valid IRI.

Regards,
Martin



From toc-01-nospam at blikroer.dk  Mon Jul  7 16:38:35 2003
From: toc-01-nospam at blikroer.dk (Tomas Christiansen)
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 22:38:35 +0200
Subject: win32service problems
References: <mailman.1057237985.11859.python-list@python.org> <be7iov$3cj$1@news.cybercity.dk> <mailman.1057540989.12125.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <becll2$1i38$1@news.cybercity.dk>

Justin Johnson wrote:
> Windows 2000.  Aftering searching google for similar problems I'm
> beginning to think I hit the dreaded shared section memory problem on
> win2k.  Ugh...

You can't see any differences between the working and not-working servers,
like:
 - domain controller or not
 - list of members of the local administrators group
 - other services running Python
 - ...

-------
Tomas




From irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl  Wed Jul 30 18:41:15 2003
From: irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 00:41:15 +0200
Subject: special case loading modules with imp
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1059585291.9596.python-list@python.org>
References: <a1.3c24fd2c.2c593d25@aol.com> <mailman.1059585291.9596.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3f28498b$0$49105$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

Steven Taschuk wrote:

> I was going to suggest StringIO, but it turns out imp.load_module
> wants a real file, not merely something file-like.
> 
> However, you can always do it by hand:
> 
>     >>> import imp  
>     >>> sourcecode = 'def foo(x): return 11*x' 
>     >>> mod = imp.new_module('foo')
>     >>> exec sourcecode in mod.__dict__
>     >>> mod.foo(16)
>     176

Heh, that's cool.
That looks like what I'm doing in Pyro to load (and import)
'mobile code' that is sent from one computer to another.

However I do it a bit different, partly because it's not always
the *source* that gets loaded: if the .pyc bytecodes are available,
those are loaded instead. Also, I stuff the modules into sys.modules
because they have to be found by regular import statements after
they're loaded.

So I'm doing:

--------- code snippet from Pyro ------------
name="not.yet.existing.module"
module=<received module source or .pyc bytecode>

import imp,marshal,new
name=name.split('.')
path=''
mod=new.module("pyro-agent-context")

for m in name:
	path+='.'+m
	# use already loaded modules instead of overwriting them
	real_path = path[1:]
	if sys.modules.has_key(real_path):
		mod = sys.modules[real_path]
	else:
		setattr(mod,m,new.module(path[1:]))
		mod=getattr(mod,m)
		sys.modules[path[1:]]=mod
	
if module[0:4]!=imp.get_magic():
	# compile source code
	code=compile(module,'<downloaded>','exec')
else:
	# read bytecode from the client
	code=marshal.loads(module[8:])
# finally, execute the module code in the right module.
exec code in mod.__dict__
--------- end code snippet from Pyro ------------


It works, but I'm not too fond of the bytecode 'tricks'...

--Irmen




From kahanpaa at gstar.astro.helsinki.fi  Thu Jul  3 02:33:38 2003
From: kahanpaa at gstar.astro.helsinki.fi (Jere Kahanpaa)
Date: 3 Jul 2003 06:33:38 GMT
Subject: function overloading
References: <bao3bm$2fh$1@news.tu-darmstadt.de>
Message-ID: <be0io2$4qi$1@oravannahka.helsinki.fi>

Hi.

Mirko Koenig <koenig at v-i-t.de> wrote:
> I serached around the web and some tutorials but i can't finds any
> documentation about function overloading in python.

> I want to have 3 functions:
> def setPos( x, y ):
> def setPos( pos ):
> def setPos( object ):
> ( pos and object are classes i wrote )

The normal Pythonic way is probably as follows:

def setPos(position):
   """
   Set Position. 

   The 'position' argument should be one of
      * a tuple of coordinates (x,y)
      * a instance of class Pos
      * a instance of class Object
   """

   if type(positions) is types.TupleType or type(positions) is types.ListType: 
       x,y = positions
       ...   
   else if: 
      ... identify object type and process

Jere
-- 
It's hard to think outside the box when you ARE the box.
                            - unknown, alt.religion.kibology 



From not at home.org  Fri Jul  4 03:15:11 2003
From: not at home.org (Dfenestr8)
Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 16:15:11 +0900
Subject: Some guidance please: A Python multitrack recorder?
Message-ID: <pan.2003.07.04.07.15.09.303@home.org>

Hi.

I'm no coder. I'm just a working guy who likes to tinker with computers in
my spare time.

That's my hobby. My passion is: playing instruments. Combining the two,
I've made a couple of event driven, GUI controlled progs in Python and
tKinter before. I made an abc/midi player, using the timidity, and
abc2midi packages. I also did a metronome, using the Snack sound toolkit.

My next project is to make my own sound recorder, using Tkinter and the
Snack Sound toolkit. I have an idea, that using multiple threads for each
recording track, I could eventually develop it into a multitrack recorder.
I could use linux SOX to add effects to each track.

Does this sound like a stupidly complicated idea for a newby?

Also, is the Python interpreter fast enough for this sort of work?
Especially on a pII 450Mhz with only 256 meg?

Would I be better off just sticking with a single track recorder, until
the day I get around to seriously studying a compiler language like C++?

Here's the skeleton of the code I'm writing......

#! /usr/bin/python

from Tkinter import *
from os import popen, popen2
import threading
import tkSnack

root = Tk()
tkSnack.initializeSnack(root)

class RecThread(threading.Thread):
	#this thread accesses the Snack toolkit
	#and actually does the recording
	def __init__ (self, master = None):
		threading.Thread.__init__(self, master)

class TrackFrame(Frame): 
	#this frame will contain the controls for running RecThead
	#including Rec, Play, and Mute Radiobutton contols.
	def __init__ (self, master = None):
		Frame.__init__(self, master)	
		
class ControlFrame(Frame): 
	#this contains all the arrow keys for controlling TrackFrame
	#it will have Start, Stop, and Pause buttons
	def __init__ (self, master = None):
		Frame.__init__(self, master)
				
class Application(Frame):
	#this is the layout for all of the above
	def __init__ (self, master = None):
		Frame.__init__(self, master)
	
if __name__ == '__main__':

	root.App = Application()
	root.App.master.title("Un Recorder")
	root.App.mainloop()
			
 



From usenet03q2 at hczim.de  Sun Jul 20 08:39:56 2003
From: usenet03q2 at hczim.de (Heike C. Zimmerer)
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 14:39:56 +0200
Subject: Tk mainloop()
References: <mailman.1058675670.11192.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bfe2lu$dc6mj$1@ID-183974.news.uni-berlin.de>

"Petr Evstratov" <tetra701 at mail.ru> writes:

> Hi, I have a question: how do you execute an arbitrary function in Tk fooBar.mainloop()?
>
> I need to change the contents of a label every second, but I think I will also use some other functions as well...

Use the after() method, like in:

  def periodic()
      ... do something useful ...
      widget.after(1000, periodic)

  ...
  periodic()
  ...

  widget.mainloop()


Greetings,

 Heike



From kamikaze at kuoi.asui.uidaho.edu  Sun Jul 20 02:26:42 2003
From: kamikaze at kuoi.asui.uidaho.edu (Mark 'Kamikaze' Hughes)
Date: 20 Jul 2003 06:26:42 GMT
Subject: Tkinter PhotoImage or PIL transparent subimages
Message-ID: <slrnbhkdh2.1kmb.kamikaze@kuoi.asui.uidaho.edu>

  In the new Python game I'm developing, I need to crop out individual
tiles from larger tilesets, and maintain transparency.  Unfortunately,
I've run into major deficiencies in both Tkinter and PIL (PyGame,
wxPython, PyQt, etc. are not really suitable for this program, for a
number of reasons, and I have zero interest in discussing why right
now).

  Since the Tkinter.PhotoImage.copy() method doesn't allow a region
parameter, I have to save the tile to a disk file (write does have a
region parameter) and read it back in; this does work correctly, but
it's not very fast.  Tk's copy() method *does* support a region
parameter, but Tkinter inexplicably does not pass it through.  It'd
probably take someone who can program in C and knows the Tkinter library
30 minutes to fix this, check it in for Python 2.3, and add it to the
documentation.  HINT HINT.  If you want a PEP first, I'll write one, but
this just looks like a bugfix to me.

  PIL has a fast crop() method, but it then throws away the transparency
information, making it useless to me.  I'm not that familiar with PIL,
but the obvious way to use it does not work, the documentation is
uninformative on the problem, and according to google, people who've
previously asked similar questions have received no answers.

  I need answers.

  I'd rather have a fixed Tkinter than PIL, since getting users to
install more libraries sucks and I have no need for PIL's other
features, but I'll take what I can get.

  Right now, I have the following code, and my images are all
transparent GIFs.

  Thanks in advance.

---cut here---
def getTileImagePIL(tile):
    key = getTile(tile)
    filename, tx, ty = key
    tx *= TILESIZE
    ty *= TILESIZE
    img = IMAGES.get(key)
    if not img:
        # get master image
        bitmap = IMAGES.get(filename)
        if not bitmap:
            if DEBUG: Log.log('Loading %s' % filename)
            bitmap = Image.open(filename)
            pagename, width, height = getPagedata(filename)
            bitmapsize = bitmap.size
            if (width*TILESIZE != bitmapsize[0]
                    or height*TILESIZE != bitmapsize[1]):
                raise AssertionError, 'Image size mismatch: %s' % filename
            IMAGES[filename] = bitmap
        # get one tile from image
        subimage = bitmap.crop( (tx, ty, tx+TILESIZE, ty+TILESIZE) )
        img = ImageTk.PhotoImage(subimage)
        IMAGES[key] = img
    return img

def getTileImageTkinter(tile):
    key = getTile(tile)
    filename, tx, ty = key
    tx *= TILESIZE
    ty *= TILESIZE
    img = IMAGES.get(key)
    if not img:
        # get master image
        bitmap = IMAGES.get(filename)
        if not bitmap:
            if DEBUG: Log.log('Loading %s' % filename)
            bitmap = Tkinter.PhotoImage(file=filename)
            pagename, width, height = getPagedata(filename)
            if (width*TILESIZE != bitmap.width()
                    or height*TILESIZE != bitmap.height()):
                raise AssertionError, 'Image size mismatch: %s' % filename
            IMAGES[filename] = bitmap
        # get one tile from image
        try:
            bitmap.write('tmp.gif', format='GIF',
                    from_coords=(tx, ty, tx+TILESIZE, ty+TILESIZE) )
        except Tkinter.TclError:
            Log.log('TclError, coords %d,%d-%d,%d in %d,%d' % (tx, ty,
                    tx+TILESIZE, ty+TILESIZE, bitmap.width(), bitmap.height()) )
            raise
        img = Tkinter.PhotoImage(file='tmp.gif')
        IMAGES[key] = img
    return img

try:
    import Image, ImageTk
    PIL = True
    getTileImage = getTileImagePIL
except ImportError:
    import Tkinter, tkMessageBox
    PIL = False
    getTileImage = getTileImageTkinter
---cut here---

-- 
 <a href="http://kuoi.asui.uidaho.edu/~kamikaze/"> Mark Hughes </a>
"The computer is incredibly fast, accurate, and stupid.
 Man is unbelievably slow, inaccurate, and brilliant.
 The marriage of the two is a force beyond calculation." -Leo Cherne



From donald_rivard at hotmail.com  Fri Jul 25 10:07:11 2003
From: donald_rivard at hotmail.com (Don Rivard)
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 10:07:11 -0400
Subject: zope  ZMySQLDA
References: <rZmdnVc4WPWOQIOiRTvUrg@net1plus.com> <bfobe2$h17es$1@ID-63505.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <ZtydnYXEa-NqpbyiRTvUqg@net1plus.com>

I know get:

Error Type: AttributeError
Error Value: server_capabilities


Traceback (innermost last):

  a.. Module ZPublisher.Publish, line 49, in publish
  b.. Module ZPublisher.mapply, line 32, in mapply
  c.. Module ZPublisher.Publish, line 38, in call_object
  d.. Module Products.ZMySQLDA.DA, line 102, in manage_addZMySQLConnection
  e.. Module Shared.DC.ZRDB.Connection, line 58, in __init__
  f.. Module Shared.DC.ZRDB.Connection, line 86, in edit
  g.. Module Products.ZMySQLDA.DA, line 120, in connect
  h.. Module Products.ZMySQLDA.db, line 179, in __init__
AttributeError: server_capabilities

 I'm not sure what server_capabilities really means.
 I will write my own DA for this. Thanks

"Thomas G?ttler" <guettler at thomas-guettler.de> wrote in message
news:bfobe2$h17es$1 at ID-63505.news.uni-berlin.de...
> Don Rivard wrote:
>
> > zope 2.71b
> > ZMySQLDA 2.08
> > MySQL-python-0.9.2
> > mysql 3.23.55NT
> >
> > When I attempt to connect, by creating a Add Z MySQL Database
Connection,
> > I set the connection string
> > to database user password, and i keep getting the following error
> > Site Error
> > An error was encountered while publishing this resource.
> >
> > Error Type: AttributeError
> > Error Value: server_capabilities
>
> Hi,
>
> If you want to see the stacktrace in error messages put
> <dtml-var error_tb>
> in the standard_error_message of Zope. This needs to be done
> trough the web and is very handy for debugging.
>
> The stacktrace shows you the file and the line where
> the error occured. Maybe this helps you to find your problem.
>
>  thomas
>
>





From jmfbahciv at aol.com  Tue Jul  8 08:43:14 2003
From: jmfbahciv at aol.com (jmfbahciv at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 08 Jul 03 12:43:14 GMT
Subject: Collective memory
References: <mailman.1057083728.8224.python-list@python.org> <vg88va53uha8e@corp.supernews.com> <hff5eb.e9h.ln@escape.shannon.net> <3F082031.3010503@netscape.netNOTthisBIT> <bec993c8.0307080602.7d5d132e@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <beeln9$b63$8@bob.news.rcn.net>

In article <bec993c8.0307080602.7d5d132e at posting.google.com>,
   shoppa at trailing-edge.com (Tim Shoppa) wrote:
<snip>

>Remember the Dilbert where PHB complains that his programmers are using
>way too many semicolons? :-)

All RIGHT!  That's a good PHB.  It was so difficult to distinguish
between a semicolon and a colon on the listings.

/BAH

Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.



From simon_place at whsmithnet.co.uk  Sat Jul  5 16:28:43 2003
From: simon_place at whsmithnet.co.uk (simon place)
Date: Sat, 05 Jul 2003 21:28:43 +0100
Subject: PEP idea. ( removing __slots__ )
Message-ID: <3f073594$1_2@news1.vip.uk.com>

Removing  __slots__
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

To do this nicely requires the renaming of  __dict__ to, say, 
__attribs__ , ( since dict is unnecessarily unspecific, this seem like a 
small improvement in itself. ) then using the setting of __attribs__ to 
a non-mutable type (ie  tuple of attribute names)  to indicate the 
behaviour of __slots__, rendering it unnecessary, this I think is a good 
simplification.




From stark7 at sbcglobal.net  Thu Jul 24 16:56:26 2003
From: stark7 at sbcglobal.net (David Stark)
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 20:56:26 GMT
Subject: Tkinter and Mac OS X
Message-ID: <BB459426.8015%stark7@sbcglobal.net>

I have Mac OS 10.2 which ships with python.  I downloaded TclTkAqua from
ActiveState and installed it.  Then I get:

>>> import Tkinter
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
  File "/usr/lib/python2.2/lib-tk/Tkinter.py", line 35, in ?
    import _tkinter # If this fails your Python may not be configured for Tk
ImportError: No module named _tkinter
>>> 

After digging around on www.python.org I get the impression that I have to
download the source and do my own build.  Do I really have to go through
this?  Is the OS X distribution of python different (for a reason)?





From tjreedy at udel.edu  Fri Jul 25 13:03:13 2003
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 13:03:13 -0400
Subject: How safe is modifying locals()?
References: <BDcUa.100193$XV.6037947@twister.austin.rr.com>
Message-ID: <MvCdnTkcoJNP_7yiXTWJjw@comcast.com>

"Paul Paterson" <paulpaterson at users.sourceforge.net> wrote in message
news:BDcUa.100193$XV.6037947 at twister.austin.rr.com...
> I am trying to find a way to mimic by-reference argument passing for
> immutables in Python. I need to do this because I am writing an
> automated VB to Python converter.
>
> Here's an example of the VB code:
>
> Sub Change(ByVal x, ByRef y)
> x = x+1
> y = y+1
> End Sub
>
> x = 0: y = 0
> Change x, y
> ' Now x should be 0 and y should be 1
>
> One approach that has been suggested is to use locals() and indirect
> references to the immutable via the resulting dictionary,
>
> def change(x, y, refs):
>    x = x + 1
>    refs[y] = refs[y] + 1
>
> x = 0; y = 0;
> change(x, 'y', locals())
>
> The Python documentation gives a warning that modifying the contents
of
> locals() may not affect local values. Despite the warning, the code
> seems to work as desired, at least on Python 2.2.

At module scope, locals() == globals().  Within a function, locals()
currently is a *copy* of the function's local namespace.  So above
only works because you made the call from the global (module) context
and would not if you tested by making call from within a function.

Terry J. Reedy





From staschuk at telusplanet.net  Thu Jul 31 21:15:38 2003
From: staschuk at telusplanet.net (Steven Taschuk)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 19:15:38 -0600
Subject: Exceptions as New Style Classes
In-Reply-To: <nX3Wa.4394$cI2.1250@nwrdny01.gnilink.net>; from imbosol@aerojockey.com on Thu, Jul 31, 2003 at 07:54:59AM +0000
References: <98c4ab9a.0307300830.72dcdc74@posting.google.com> <mailman.1059599265.28808.python-list@python.org> <olYVa.6227$Jz2.693@nwrdny02.gnilink.net> <mailman.1059631247.24226.python-list@python.org> <nX3Wa.4394$cI2.1250@nwrdny01.gnilink.net>
Message-ID: <20030731191538.E22513@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>

Quoth Carl Banks:
> Steven Taschuk wrote:
> > Quoth Carl Banks:
  [...]
> >> Why not give exceptions their own metaclass?  So if type(x) is
> >> ExceptionMetaclass, it's a class.  If type(type(x)) is
> >> ExceptionMetaclass, it's an instance.  Otherwise, it's illegal to
> >> raise it.
  [...]
> > I'm not sure what it gains us, though, over the idea of mandatory
> > inheritance from Exception.  Am I missing something?
> 
> Probably not much, unless you think you want to raise exceptions that
> aren't subclasses of Exception.

I would have thought that having to raise instances of classes
which are instances of ExceptionMetaclass would be just as onerous
as having to raise instances of Exception.

    class MyRaisable(Exception):
        # ...

    class MyRaisable(object):
        __metaclass__ = ExceptionMetaclass
        # ...

I suppose Exception could have behaviour you don't want, in which
case the latter might be preferable.

-- 
Steven Taschuk                            staschuk at telusplanet.net
"Our analysis begins with two outrageous benchmarks."
  -- "Implementation strategies for continuations", Clinger et al.




From steve at ferg.org  Fri Jul  4 11:28:07 2003
From: steve at ferg.org (Stephen Ferg)
Date: 4 Jul 2003 08:28:07 -0700
Subject: ANN: Python language slideshow presentation
Message-ID: <b16e4ef7.0307040728.69b2f367@posting.google.com>

An HTML slideshow on the Python language is now available on the
Python Slideshow Presentations page:
http://ferg.org/python_presentations/index.html

These slides are good for talks on features of the Python language for
programmers (as opposed to a management-oriented presentation).

In 2000 and 2001, David Beazley gave three presentations on Python,
based on his book "Python Essential Reference". Later, he generously
released the slides from these presentations under the GNU Public
License (GPL).
 
I have combined these slides into a single presentation on the Python
language. Note that the slides are not in PowerPoint, but in HTML. All
you need to give the presention (other than the files themselves) is a
Web browser.

I've made very few changes to David's original material. I have
removed references to David in his role as presenter, since you (not
David) will be giving the presentation. I've updated a few things,
such as changing references from Jpython to Jython and bringing the
list of Python versions up to 2.3. The main difference is that the
slides look different. I've made the navigation links easier to use,
and added color through the use of a CSS stylesheet.

Information about the slideshow, and a link to download a zip file,
are on the Python Slideshow Presentations page:
http://ferg.org/python_presentations/index.html

You can look at the presentation online at 
http://ferg.org/python_slides/index.html

-- Steve Ferg



From taka at net.hr  Wed Jul  9 08:19:21 2003
From: taka at net.hr (Taka)
Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 14:19:21 +0200
Subject: format discs.
References: <pan.2003.07.09.08.22.10.853337.9435@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2003.07.09.12.19.17.544904@net.hr>

On Wed, 09 Jul 2003 06:26:38 +0000, Flanagan wrote:

> hello to all 
> 
> somebody can say to me whereupon I modulate of python I can format 
> discs. 
> 
> 
> thanks flanagan

Let's presume you want to format a unix partition and that it is
/dev/hda1.
The do this:

#!/bin/python

import os
partition = open ('/dev/hda1', 'w')

for x in range(os.path.getsize('/dev/hda1'):
	partition.write ('0')

partition.close()


:)



From adechert at earthlink.net  Sun Jul 27 14:09:48 2003
From: adechert at earthlink.net (Alan Dechert)
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 18:09:48 GMT
Subject: Voting Project Needs Python People
References: <LDVSa.14955$Mc.1126731@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <xqxwuebfyym.fsf@cola2.ca.boeing.com> <bfhhgq$5lu$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net> <xqx7k6b36r8.fsf@cola2.ca.boeing.com> <jk_Sa.113364$Io.9707082@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <7x65lv31hf.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <z8%Sa.113480$Io.9712518@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <xqxsmoyitto.fsf@cola2.ca.boeing.com> <3jhTa.115229$Io.9825106@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <bfkch9$is4$1@slb4.atl.mindspring.net> <w2BTa.116465$Io.9943199@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <bfo1k3$n2s$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <MzUUa.23923$Mc.1869123@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>

"Andrew Dalke" <adalke at mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:bfo1k3$n2s$1 at slb6.atl.mindspring.net...

> BTW, I don't think you need to distribute a calculator for this.  I think
> you just need some tables which give values for a few select points,
> as in:
>
I still want a calculator.  Here's what Bill Buck ( billbuck at cox.net ) sent
me.  It turns out there is a BINOMDIST function in Excel.  I think it might
be what I want.

http://home.earthlink.net/~adechert/LOTAcceptanceCalculator.xls

Let me try to clarify what I'm after.  The paper record should always match
the electronic record.  So the allowable defects is zero.  If there is a
mismatch found in the sample, we don't publish the electronic tally: we take
all the paper ballots and check them.

We are talking about an election conducted with computer-generated paper
ballots.  The paper ballots represent the actual vote since these ballots
are what voters actually saw, verified, and cast.  We will have an
electronic record obtained from the computers which should match each paper
ballot generated.  We want to use the electronic record since it will give
us an instant result -- but we have to check it against the paper ballots to
be sure the election result is correct.  So, in this scenario, the
electronic count is a prediction (or preliminary tally).

So, if by the preliminary electronic tally a candidate won a race by 1
percent, I want to know how many ballots we have to check (random sample) to
be certain that the result predicted is true.

When I put one million into this Confidence Level Calculator, and Acceptable
Quality Level of .01, a sample of 10,000 shows a confidence level of "1."  A
sample of 2000 give C.L of 0.999999998  Presumably, "1" is really
.9999999999+ more 9s.  Can we get more decimal places?

So I guess the Lot Fraction Defective is analgous to the predicted victory
margin.  Is that right?

I would still like a standalone calculator that doesn't require Excel.

Alan Dechert





From hokiegal99 at hotmail.com  Sat Jul 12 12:14:11 2003
From: hokiegal99 at hotmail.com (hokiegal99)
Date: 12 Jul 2003 09:14:11 -0700
Subject: call one python script from within another
References: <ben27t$hj9$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <3f0f40b9$0$49103$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <93f5c5e9.0307120814.4a84ca9a@posting.google.com>

Irmen de Jong <irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl> wrote in message news:<3f0f40b9$0$49103$e4fe514c at news.xs4all.nl>...
> Tubby Tudor wrote:
> > What is the best way to call one python script from within another 
> > python script? For example:
> > 
> > one.py finishes succesfully and calls two.py which finishes OK and then 
> > calls three.py
> > 
> > Thanks guys!
> > 
> 
> one.py:
> ---------------
> 
> import two
> import three
> 
> 
> def main():
>      ....  body of your code here ....
> 
> 
> main()		# run code in one
> two.main()	# run code in two
> three.main()	# run code in three
> ------------------
> 
> Will this do?


Yes, this works. Thanks for the tip!



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Thu Jul 17 12:35:48 2003
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 12:35:48 -0400
Subject: anything like C++ references?
References: <000301c348c7$3c501980$21795418@dell1700> <jf22hvotj4n0q5tpkg627e3jv61norf93n@4ax.com> <3F11106A.65FDA8F2@alcyone.com> <iqm2hvs77lhe1m71v9b579070khbf0uv0a@4ax.com> <berqqd$ad5$1@panix3.panix.com> <brs2hv8edfv0d1fch9mha8otuulajnkh0g@4ax.com> <8vd6hv0sdvoitccmnj4pdj66ss2vg4ii3n@4ax.com> <5ir6hvof9m5rjh6i3u992l91un21qtmsh4@4ax.com> <bf09r0$fn9$0@216.39.172.122> <hub7hvgjjm0prt5p3jn92npmb3gf777mr9@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <KamdnQ5zn9n4TYuiXTWJhw@comcast.com>

"Stephen Horne" <intentionally at blank.co.uk> wrote in message
news:hub7hvgjjm0prt5p3jn92npmb3gf777mr9 at 4ax.com...
> A goal of Python is to be a 'very high level language'. Another is
to
> 'do the right thing'.

At this point, we need to differentiate between Guido's goal for
Python, your goal for Python, and anybody else's.  The above may by
your goals but not necessarily others' (primary) goals.

> In my view, the current implementation of Python with respect to
> variable binding is against those goals.

That may be, for all I know.

> Python isn't really a member of that list. ...
> It isn't an experimental language. It doesn't obsess on one
particular
> concept. It is a language for getting things done with very little
> fuss.

This is, I believe, expresses Guido's goal for Python much better than
your two goals above.  So, by your own statement, he has met *his*
goal pretty well.

Terry J. Reedy





From bokr at oz.net  Sat Jul 19 12:58:57 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 19 Jul 2003 16:58:57 GMT
Subject: __getitem__ and arguments
References: <10eb079f.0307190110.30deb5b9@posting.google.com> <slrnbhii0k.re7.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>
Message-ID: <bfbtch$sp0$0@216.39.172.122>

On 20 Jul 2003 04:00:05 +0950, Ben Finney <bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au> wrote:
[...]
>
>> For __getitem__() the arguments become a tuple.
>
>Yes, because you've specified a key, which by definition is a single
>argument.
>
But note that it can be more than a simple tuple (or less, if it's an int):

 >>> class X(object):
 ...     def __getitem__(self, i): print i
 ...
 >>> x=X()
 >>> x[1]
 1
 >>> x[1:]
 slice(1, None, None)
 >>> x[:1]
 slice(None, 1, None)
 >>> x[:]
 slice(None, None, None)
 >>> x[1, :, 1:, :1, 1:2, 1:2:3, (4,5), 6]
 (1, slice(None, None, None), slice(1, None, None), slice(None, 1, None), slice(1, 2, None),
 slice(1, 2, 3), (4, 5), 6)

Notice that (4,5) in there also as one of the indices.

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From python-url at phaseit.net  Mon Jul 21 05:58:19 2003
From: python-url at phaseit.net (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 09:58:19 -0000
Subject: Dr. Dobb's Python-URL! - weekly Python news and links (Jul 21)
Message-ID: <vhne9r38jpsq8a@corp.supernews.com>

QOTW:  "To 'Tron' fans: yes, you could assign the name TimBit to it [the
TimBot] but it's a broken Bit; what's the use of a Bit that's always true?"
                                            -- Christos Georgiou

"Whether or not I agree with you, you have made me think.  That's worth
the price of my Internet connection this month."
                                            -- Tim Roberts


Discussion
----------
     Aahz writes a rebuttal to Artima.com, because a recent interview with
     Bruce Eckel on that site might give the wrong impression regarding
     Python's type system.
         <http://www.artima.com/weblogs/viewpost.jsp?thread=3D7590>
     The interview with Bruce Eckel is at:
         <http://www.artima.com/intv/typing.html>

     Raymond Hettinger intrigues with the second episode of a series of
     mysterious Python puzzles.
         <http://groups.google.com/groups?threadm=3DVorQa.15236$Kw1.587 at n=
wrdny02.gnilink.net>

     Tom Plunket starts a huge thread about the way Python treats
     objects, names, variables, assignment, references and what not.
     Various people have different opinions about what would be the best
     way to do things, but in the end, the QOTW of Tim Roberts (above)
     kind of says it all.
         <http://groups.google.com/groups?threadm=3D13t0hvsb7idh0g6ac3upe5k0qd6flc17ah at 4ax.com>

     Michele Simionato likes to have an endswith method that accepts a
     list of strings, instead of a single string argument. But things are
     not that easy.
         <http://groups.google.com/groups?threadm=3D2259b0e2.0307200604.44d343f4 at posting.google.com>

     Alan Kennedy shows what you might do if you need to build a list of
     database rows (from a query), without allocating the list beforehand
     because you don't know the size. He uses an iterator to do the trick.
         <http://groups.google.com/groups?threadm=3D3F16B745.9CF3EF54 at hotmail.com>

     Andrew Kuchling has started a mailing list for discussion about
     Python Web frameworks.
         <http://www.amk.ca/mailman/listinfo/pyweb/>
     This is partly because perhaps Python needs a single 'standard' way
     to create web applications, as Andy Robinson points out.
         <http://groups.google.com/groups?threadm=3Dd5mm9v8em9j41kus2tvj2raipd7dagv18k%404ax.com>

Announcements
-------------
     Python 2.3 release candidate 1. This will become Python 2.3 final if
     no major new bugs are found this week.
         <http://www.python.org/2.3/>

     Gnosis Utils 1.1.0, several Python modules for XML processing,
     plus other generally useful tools such as pickling and indexing.
         <http://gnosis.python-hosting.com/Gnosis_Utils-1.1.0.tar.gz>

     ZODB3 3.3a1, a set of tools for using the Zope Object Database
     (ZODB) in Python programs separately from Zope.
         <http://www.zope.org/Products/ZODB3.3/>

     SC-Track Roundup 0.5.9, an issue-tracking system with command-line,
     web and e-mail interfaces.
         <http://roundup.sourceforge.net/>

     PyUNO (in OpenOffice.org1.1rc), a generic bridge between python
     and OpenOffice.org's component model UNO (Universal Network Objects).
         <http://udk.openoffice.org/python/python-bridge.html>

     dnspython 1.1.0b1, a DNS toolkit for Python.
         <http://www.dnspython.org/>

     hYPerSonic is a python/c framework for building and manipulating
     real-time sound processing pipelines.
         <http://arrowtheory.com/software/hypersonic/index.html>

     Albatross 1.10, is a small toolkit for developing highly stateful
     web applications (including a HTML template language).
         <http://www.object-craft.com.au/projects/albatross/>

     ClientForm 0.0.11 and 0.1.5a, a Python module for handling
     HTML forms on the client.
         <http://wwwsearch.sourceforge.net/ClientForm/>

     C=F2nflux Lite 1.0, a web-based groupware and file management
     application.
         <http://www.conflux.ee/>

     Quixote 0.6.1, yet another framework for developing Web applications
     in Python (but focused on the Python developer).
         <http://www.mems-exchange.org/software/quixote/>

     SCGI 1.1, a package that implements the SCGI protocol (similar to
     FastCGI, but easier to implement).
         <http://www.mems-exchange.org/software/scgi/>


========================================================================
Everything you want is probably one or two clicks away in these pages:

    Python.org's Python Language Website is the traditional
    center of Pythonia
        http://www.python.org
    Notice especially the master FAQ
        http://www.python.org/doc/FAQ.html

    PythonWare complements the digest you're reading with the
    daily python url
         http://www.pythonware.com/daily  
    Mygale is a news-gathering webcrawler that specializes in (new)
    World-Wide Web articles related to Python.
         http://www.awaretek.com/nowak/mygale.html 
    While cosmetically similar, Mygale and the Daily Python-URL
    are utterly different in their technologies and generally in
    their results.

    comp.lang.python.announce announces new Python software.  Be
    sure to scan this newly-revitalized newsgroup at least weekly.
        http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&as_ugroup=comp.lang.python.announce

    Brett Cannon continues the marvelous tradition established by 
    Andrew Kuchling and Michael Hudson of summarizing action on the
    python-dev mailing list once every other week.
	http://www.python.org/dev/summary/

    The Python Package Index catalogues packages.
        http://www.python.org/pypi/

    The somewhat older Vaults of Parnassus ambitiously collects references
    to all sorts of Python resources.
        http://www.vex.net/~x/parnassus/   

    Much of Python's real work takes place on Special-Interest Group
    mailing lists
        http://www.python.org/sigs/

    The Python Business Forum "further[s] the interests of companies
    that base their business on ... Python."
	http://www.python-in-business.org

    The Python Software Foundation has replaced the Python Consortium
    as an independent nexus of activity
        http://www.python.org/psf/

    Cetus does much of the same
        http://www.cetus-links.org/oo_python.html

    Python FAQTS
        http://python.faqts.com/

    The old Python "To-Do List" now lives principally in a
    SourceForge reincarnation.
        http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?atid=355470&group_id=5470&func=browse
        http://python.sourceforge.net/peps/pep-0042.html
     
    The online Python Journal is posted at pythonjournal.cognizor.com.
    editor at pythonjournal.com and editor at pythonjournal.cognizor.com
    welcome submission of material that helps people's understanding
    of Python use, and offer Web presentation of your work.

    *Py: the Journal of the Python Language*
        http://www.pyzine.com

    Archive probing tricks of the trade:
        http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&as_ugroup=comp.lang.python&num=100
        http://groups.google.com/groups?meta=site%3Dgroups%26group%3Dcomp.lang.python.*

Previous - (U)se the (R)esource, (L)uke! - messages are listed here:
  http://www.ddj.com/topics/pythonurl/         
  http://purl.org/thecliff/python/url.html (dormant)
or
  http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&as_q=+Python-URL!&as_ugroup=comp.lang.python


Suggestions/corrections for next week's posting are always welcome.
E-mail to <Python-URL at phaseit.net> should get through.

To receive a new issue of this posting in e-mail each Monday morning
(approximately), ask <claird at phaseit.net> to subscribe.  Mention
"Python-URL!".


-- The Python-URL! Team--

Dr. Dobb's Journal (http://www.ddj.com) is pleased to participate in and
sponsor the "Python-URL!" project.




From candiazoo at mac.com  Wed Jul 16 00:41:17 2003
From: candiazoo at mac.com (Michael S. Jessop)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 04:41:17 GMT
Subject: Problem with MySQLdb on Mac OS X...
References: <110720032317344670%candiazoo@mac.com> <mailman.1058024298.17294.python-list@python.org> <120720032321075007%candiazoo@mac.com> <3344b1fa.0307140325.67be7b8c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <160720030041014531%candiazoo@mac.com>

I shall check it out!  Thanks.

Mike J.

In article <3344b1fa.0307140325.67be7b8c at posting.google.com>, Peter
Wilkinson <pw-google at terlkin.org> wrote:

> "Michael S. Jessop" <candiazoo at mac.com> wrote in message
> news:<120720032321075007%candiazoo at mac.com>...
> > [[ This message was both posted and mailed: see
> >    the "To," "Cc," and "Newsgroups" headers for details. ]]
> > 
> > I tried supplying host as well, same error.    :/   Something is hosed. 
> > I guess I could try reinstalling.  I really want to get this to work. 
> > I am trying to write a maintenance program for my wife, so she can
> > remotely modify the database containing information about her artwork,
> > distribution lists, etc.
> > 
> 
> I've just sorted out the problem on my machine and it appeared to be a
> set of include files from a previous install of MySQL that were
> sitting in /usr/include, once I removed that and rebuilt with setup.py
> pointing to the Fink include paths it works fine.
> 
> Peter.



From bignose-hates-spam at and-benfinney-does-too.id.au  Sat Jul 26 19:00:58 2003
From: bignose-hates-spam at and-benfinney-does-too.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: 27 Jul 2003 08:50:58 +0950
Subject: Beginners help with password program!
References: <mailman.1059257449.31126.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrnbi636q.10n.bignose-hates-spam@rose.localdomain.fake>

On Sat, 26 Jul 2003 18:08:39 -0400 (EDT), tjland at iserv.net wrote:
> Their are some errors that i
> just cant find,

Please show the errors you get, so we know what you're talking about.

> and i want some advice on how to do some of these things easier.

Here's advice on finding errors:

When you encounter an error you don't understand, *don't* try to deal
with the whole program.  Take a copy, or make a new program (whichever
seems simpler at the time) and get to the smallest possible program you
can make that still exhibits the error.

This will result in several things:

    you may end up solving the error; otherwise:

    you may understand the error much better

    you will know exactly which lines of code are related to the error

    you will have something suitable to post to this newsgroup.

Please don't just post the whole program and say "find my error".
That's *your* task.

-- 
 \       "I watched the Indy 500, and I was thinking that if they left |
  `\      earlier they wouldn't have to go so fast."  -- Steven Wright |
_o__)                                                                  |
http://bignose.squidly.org/ 9CFE12B0 791A4267 887F520C B7AC2E51 BD41714B



From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Tue Jul  8 17:38:33 2003
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 22:38:33 +0100
Subject: anything new on the ternary operator?
References: <3F09E4B4.FED89C06@alcyone.com> <3F09252F.9B0F52BD@alcyone.com>
 <mailman.1057533670.9800.python-list@python.org>
 <beae42$d01$1@panix2.panix.com>
 <mailman.1057574950.16136.python-list@python.org>
 <mailman.1057642872.21988.python-list@python.org>
 <40a939c9.0307080622.3118cfd7@posting.google.com>
 <mailman.1057676413.31729.python-list@python.org>
 <2UVsCJApkwC$EwTg@jessikat.demon.co.uk>
 <mailman.1057691315.13249.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1XpcCKAZnzC$EwCd@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>

In article <mailman.1057691315.13249.python-list at python.org>, Fredrik
Lundh <fredrik at pythonware.com> writes
.....
>if we'd known that you folks would end up this bitter, we would
>have given you one point ;-)
>
></F>
.... even though I helped in recording the awful 'Puppet On A String'
back in the dark ages, not getting any points is a high point in
Britain's Eurovision career. With any luck we can consign this awfulness
to the dustbin of history. Perhaps we can make Guantanamo part of Europe
and send it there for a quickie death sentence.
-- 
Robin Becker



From candiazoo at mac.com  Wed Jul 16 01:09:28 2003
From: candiazoo at mac.com (Michael S. Jessop)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 05:09:28 GMT
Subject: Problem with MySQLdb on Mac OS X...
References: <110720032317344670%candiazoo@mac.com> <mailman.1058024298.17294.python-list@python.org> <120720032321075007%candiazoo@mac.com> <3344b1fa.0307140315.321bb6b2@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <160720030109126017%candiazoo@mac.com>

YES!  It works.  I could kiss you, Peter!

Thanks!  

Mike J.


In article <3344b1fa.0307140315.321bb6b2 at posting.google.com>, Peter
Wilkinson <pw-google at terlkin.org> wrote:

> "Michael S. Jessop" <candiazoo at mac.com> wrote in message
> news:<120720032321075007%candiazoo at mac.com>...
> > [[ This message was both posted and mailed: see
> >    the "To," "Cc," and "Newsgroups" headers for details. ]]
> > 
> > I tried supplying host as well, same error.    :/   Something is hosed. 
> > I guess I could try reinstalling.  I really want to get this to work. 
> > I am trying to write a maintenance program for my wife, so she can
> > remotely modify the database containing information about her artwork,
> > distribution lists, etc.
> > 
> 
> I see exactly the same problem. My install is with MySQL and Python
> both via Fink. Trying both 2.2 and 2.3 Python I get the same problem.
> 
> Trying to dig into it a little it looks as though the setup code isn't
> populating some of the fields and methods and the error thrown shows
> up because self.converter is set to None.
> 
> I'm going to try and figure this out but would be interested in any
> insight others might have.
> 
> Peter.



From peter at engcorp.com  Wed Jul 23 10:06:06 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 10:06:06 -0400
Subject: python assignment
References: <fbf8d8f2.0307221659.1dd1ac77@posting.google.com> <slrnbhrqtj.9jf.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local> <3f1e92bc$0$161$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>
Message-ID: <3F1E964E.BFD7513F@engcorp.com>

Grant Edwards wrote:
> 
> In article <slrnbhrqtj.9jf.bignose-hates-spam at iris.polar.local>, Ben Finney wrote:
> 
> >> What I need is an exact and unambiguous algorithm for determining when
> >> an assignment will change the id of the variable
> >
> > As I understand it, this is specific to the implementation of each type.
> > The only sensible way to code is as if the identity of an object, on
> > assignment, were completely unpredictable.
> >
> > The examples you gave showed that integers share identity with other
> > integers of the same value, while floats do not.
> 
> I believe that's only true for small integers, isn't it?

Google finds "LOADI - a fast load instruction for small positive integers 
(those referenced by the small_ints array in intobject.c)" and checking
that file is left as an exercise to the reader.  I'm going to blindly
assume this is directly related to the issue in question... ;-)

-Peter



From theller at python.net  Tue Jul 29 03:03:25 2003
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 09:03:25 +0200
Subject: Any Software can Python <-> Delphi ?
References: <bg2ul3$jvg6p$1@ID-142885.news.uni-berlin.de> <_icVa.1123902$ZC.164425@news.easynews.com>
 <3F2588C1.8FE0C79B@easystreet.com>
Message-ID: <adaxg6gy.fsf@python.net>

achrist at easystreet.com writes:

> Joe Francia wrote:
>> 
>> PythonMan wrote:
>> > Any Software can change Python source code to Delphi ?
>> > thx
>> >
>> 
>> You might find an easier time of it to embed your Python in Delphi, or,
>> even better, write a Python extension with Delphi:
>> 
>> http://www.atug.com/andypatterns/pythonDelphiTalk.htm
>> http://membres.lycos.fr/marat/delphi/python.htm
>> 
>
> Anyone have any ideas about how to package one of these pythondelphi
> apps to be easy to deploy and be convenient to the end user?  I'm
> guessing that since python isn't on top, McMillan's installer and
> py2exe won't handle it.

You could write a small, fake module importing the stuff that the
library needs.  If you then run py2exe with the -k (--keep-temp) option,
it doesn't delete its own build tree. You will find there a xxx.zip
file, containing all the modules needed (plus a few scripts which you
can ignore). If you use Python 2.3, just add the zip-file's name to
sys.path, and you are done.

Thomas



From ben at dadsetan.com  Tue Jul 15 15:56:50 2003
From: ben at dadsetan.com (Behrang Dadsetan)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 20:56:50 +0100
Subject: Waiting for processes to finish under Solaris
References: <3F144AB2.10703@dadsetan.com> <donn-080615.11130115072003@nntp1.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <3F145C82.6010606@dadsetan.com>

Wow.. that is a pretty nice shortcut indeed.. at least for the second 
step of waiting for the process to end by itself!

It is also a very underdocumented feature.. :)) signal.SIG_DFL (0) is 
documented as """SIG_DFL
This is one of two standard signal handling options; it will simply 
perform the default function for the signal. For example, on most 
systems the default action for SIGQUIT is to dump core and exit, while 
the default action for SIGCLD is to simply ignore it. """
Hopefully it will NOT SIGQUIT it...
I can only test it tomorrow but if it works it will certainly give it a 
performance boost. If it does not maybe some other signal is completed 
ignored...
Pity I will have to probably run the watch script as the same user than 
the process. I guess I will not be able to kill it otherwise.

Could you maybe find anything where you would say, could be done a 
little more pythonic? :)

Thanks.
Ben.
Donn Cave wrote:
> Since you apparently already know the PIDs you're looking for,
> it would be easier and more reliable to just kill them with 0 -
> 
> Though of course that doesn't retrieve any of the other information
> you get from "ps".
> 
>    Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu




From ianb at colorstudy.com  Sun Jul 20 06:01:44 2003
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: 20 Jul 2003 05:01:44 -0500
Subject: object as a reserved keyword
In-Reply-To: <vtnkhvoqcet2bgmeidae1st46m7q9sr1p3@4ax.com>
References: <vtnkhvoqcet2bgmeidae1st46m7q9sr1p3@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <1058695303.28092.1367.camel@lothlorien>

On Sun, 2003-07-20 at 04:29, Lawrence Oluyede wrote:
> Does it worth to make "object" keyword a reserved one?
> I'd like to avoid oddities like this:
> 
> Python 2.3c1 (#44, Jul 18 2003, 14:32:36) [MSC v.1200 32 bit (Intel)]
> on win32
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> >>> class c(object): pass
> ...
> >>> object = 4
> >>> class c(object): pass
> ...
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
> TypeError: int() takes at most 2 arguments (3 given)
> >>>

That's not odd or even bad... so you get an exception.  That can happen
all the time when you do silly things.  Now...

    class object: pass

*That* would be bad, cause later on you'll do...


    class Whatever(object):
        ...
        x = property(get_x, set_x)

I can totally imagine going nuts trying to figure out what went wrong
with that...

  Ian






From lol at lolmc.com  Thu Jul 17 16:57:13 2003
From: lol at lolmc.com (Rogue9)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 21:57:13 +0100
Subject: Problems retrieving items from a list using a reference  rather than an integer - can you help?
References: <3f15ca92@shknews01> <mailman.1058460808.1421.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3f170dfd@shknews01>

As I put in my reply to your personal email - I asked in the python ng for
help with a python program I was writing NOT an opinion on what I was
writing.
Not replying to the post would have been better than you pushing your
opinions on others when not asked.
When I posted I didn?t say ?Hey guys,help me and the program I write
will guarantee you?ll win the lottery.? I merely asked for help with a
programming problem for a personal project - whether it is a fools errand
is my business and not for anyone else to gainsay.


On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 10:51:41 +0000, Bob Gailer wrote:

> At 04:05 PM 7/17/2003 +0100, Rogue9 wrote:
> 
>>After reviewing my question I realised that I should have posted the
>>short piece of real code I'm working on and not tried to write some
>>pseudo-code to illustrate the problem I'm having.Therefore I have
>>printed the listing below which is quite short and hopefully won't annoy
>>too many peopleabout the length of my post.
>>
>>To reiterate:
>>The masterList holds the results for the UK lottery
> [snip]
> I sure hope you are not writing "yet another winning lottery number
> predictor". It is a sad commentary on mathematics education when
> individuals belive that one can predict the outcome of a truly random
> process based on any history. I for one certainly won't support any
> effort to further mislead people.
> 
> Bob Gailer
> bgailer at alum.rpi.edu
> 303 442 2625
> 
> ---
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system
> (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.500 / Virus Database: 298 -
> Release Date: 7/10/2003



From pedro.werneck at bol.com.br  Wed Jul  9 19:37:46 2003
From: pedro.werneck at bol.com.br (Pedro Werneck)
Date: 9 Jul 2003 16:37:46 -0700
Subject: Application Development in Python
References: <3089454.1057738936@dbforums.com>
Message-ID: <ef72fb2b.0307091537.79d4e45c@posting.google.com>

I suggest you to look at Kiwi, in http://www.async.com.br/kiwi... it's
a framework for quick application development, based on PyGTK and
Glade... the stable version currently only supports GTK 1.2, but I
think it's worth a look...

indru <____indru_june at yahoo.com____> wrote in message news:<3089454.1057738936 at dbforums.com>...
> Hi all,
> I am new to Python programming. I am from C,C++,Perl background. I am
> quite convinced by the possibilities python as a very high level
> language is offering. I am seriously thinking of using python in my
> project which is to create a accounting software. First thing came to my
> mind was C++ but the time required could be enormous and my people are
> not ready to wait that long. The project is a medium sized one but
> bigger than something like gnucash and KMyMoney2. Do any body have
> experience with application development using python and their
> experiences ?.   Also please advice me whether Python can be used for
> such purposes.
> Thanks in advance
> Indru



From pablo at bogus.domain.org  Sun Jul 20 08:30:11 2003
From: pablo at bogus.domain.org (Pablo)
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 14:30:11 +0200
Subject: classes
References: <pan.2003.07.19.20.46.33.864915@bogus.domain.org> <ad052e5c.0307191826.144ad2a5@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2003.07.20.12.30.11.157694@bogus.domain.org>

[cut]
>> 2) how to declare a static method
> 
>     class HasStaticMethod:
>        def method(arg0, arg1):  # note the lack of "self"
>           # do something with arg0 and arg1
>        method = staticmethod(method)

That's not exactly what I wanted.
I would prefer something like this:
class StaticMethod:
  __instance = None
  def __init__(self):
    if StaticMethod.__instance is None:
      StaticMethod.__instance = self
    else:
      raise Exception("Constructor may be invoked only once")
  def getInstance():
    if StaticMethod.__instance is None:
      StaticMethod.__instance = StaticMethod()
    return StaticMethod.__instance

m = StaticMethod.getInstance()
but Python does not allow to invoke any class method without providing an
instance of the class object

I've been thinking about Python classes and modules and found out that it
is possible in Python to create an object in some module and use a
reference to it from other modules. In Java it's not possible to create
any object outside of any class.
So my problem would be solved if I could create a class which would be
seen only in its module (something like private class). Then I could
create an object and simply use it across my application.
It would behave like a static object since it
wouldn't be possible to create another object in other modules (since the
class would be visible only it its module), and it also wouldn't be
possible to create another object in its module (there is no reason for
it).

Is it possible to create a class and forbid its use outside its module?


Thanks for a usefull reply.
Pablo



From phil at riverbankcomputing.co.uk  Sat Jul  5 14:01:35 2003
From: phil at riverbankcomputing.co.uk (Phil Thompson)
Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2003 19:01:35 +0100
Subject: ANN: PyQt v3.7 Released
Message-ID: <200307051901.35797.phil@riverbankcomputing.co.uk>

PyQt v3.7 has been released and can be downloaded from 
http://www.riverbankcomputing.co.uk/pyqt/

PyQt is a comprehensive set of Python bindings for Trolltech's Qt GUI toolkit. 
It includes approximately 300 classes and 5,750 methods including OpenGL, SQL 
and XML support as well as a rich set of GUI widgets. It also includes a 
utility to generate Python code from Qt Designer, Qt's GUI builder.

PyQt runs on UNIX/Linux, Windows and the Sharp Zaurus.

PyQt is licensed under the GPL, commercial, educational and non-commercial 
licenses.

Phil




From cedmunds at spamless.rochester.rr.com  Mon Jul 14 22:17:32 2003
From: cedmunds at spamless.rochester.rr.com (Cy Edmunds)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 02:17:32 GMT
Subject: Open MS Excel Spreadsheet with Python
References: <mailman.1058229111.12248.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <0vJQa.6944$G%5.4151@twister.nyroc.rr.com>

"Allison Bailey" <allisonb at terralogicgis.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.1058229111.12248.python-list at python.org...
> Hi Folks,
>
> I'm a brand new Python programmer, so please point me in the right
> direction if this is not the best forum for this question....
>
> I would like to open an existing MS Excel spreadsheet and extract
> information from specific worksheets and cells.
>
> I'm not really sure how to get started with this process.
> I ran the COM Makepy utility from my PythonWin (IDE from ActiveSTate),
> using Microsoft Excel 10.0 Object Library, then
> import win32com.client
> xl = win32com.client.Dispatch("Excel.Application")
> wb = xl.Workbooks.Open ("c:\\data\\myspreadsheet.xls")
>
> Then, I get errors when I try the following:
> sh = wb.worksheets(1)
>
>
> I think I'm missing something fairly fundamental, but I've googled all
> over the place and can't seem to find anything very introductory about
> opening and using data from MS Excel using Python.  Any suggestions,
> including places to get more information are welcome.
>
> Also, do I need to run the makepy utility every time I run my script?
> If so, how would I do it from within my Python program, rather than with
> the GUI in the IDE?
>
> Thanks for your help,
>
> Allison
>
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Allison Bailey
> TerraLogic GIS, Inc.
> allisonb at terralogicgis.com
> 425-673-4495
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
>
>

Your code worked on my system. However, I have found this interface to be
pretty tricky. It often happens that while you are debugging the program you
generate an instance of Excel which then makes later operations bomb
mysteriously. On XP, hit Ctrl-Alt-Del tp bring up the task manager and then
look at the Processes tab. If you have an instance of Excel running you
should see it there. Use End Process to get rid of it.

You can avoid these problems by making sure that any COM references you make
get released properly if an exception occurs. Your script would look like
this:

import win32com.client
xl = win32com.client.Dispatch("Excel.Application")
try:
    wb = xl.Workbooks.Open ("c:\\data\\myspreadsheet.xls")
    try:
        sh = wb.worksheets(1)
        try:
            print sh.Cells(2,3)
        except:
            sh = None
            raise
        sh = None
    except:
        wb.Close()
        wb = None
        raise
    wb.Close()
    wb = None
except:
    xl = None
    raise
xl = None

There are more elegant ways of doing this using classes. However, with this
code I think you will never see one of those mysterious Excel instances in
your task manager.

-- 
Cy
http://home.rochester.rr.com/cyhome/





From gsmatthew at ozemail.com.au  Fri Jul 11 08:28:39 2003
From: gsmatthew at ozemail.com.au (Graeme Matthew)
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 22:28:39 +1000
Subject: Business model for Open Source - advice wanted
References: <246a4e07.0307100613.fc2fc50@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <_3yPa.251$7d2.10974@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au>

Im working on a commercial application for a company to replace their
existing system. In python of course. Our aim is to distribute it
commercially and if a large number of people upgrade then we are planning on
donating some funds to the applicable open source associations. I think that
if anyone is going to make a commercial product from open source then the
expected bare minimum is to at least offer something for all those involved.






"Frank Millman" <frank at chagford.com> wrote in message
news:246a4e07.0307100613.fc2fc50 at posting.google.com...
> Hi all
>
> I would like some advice, and I hope that the good people on c.l.p
> will give me the benefit of their experience.
>
> I am busy developing an accounting package, using Python and wxPython,
> together with PostgreSQL on a Unix platform or SQL Server on a Windows
> platform. I am a qualified accountant and have been developing
> accounting software, mostly customised, for over 20 years. I have now
> got myself into a position financially where I can take a few months
> off and write "the perfect system". No, not really, but I have built
> up a lot of experience over the years, I have a lot of ideas about
> what I would like to see in a system, and I have decided to give
> myself the opportunity to see how good a system I can actually write.
>
> At some point quite soon I will have to start generating some revenue
> from my efforts. I have a number of people interested in what I am
> doing, and I was planning to start selling it as YAAS (yet another
> accounting system) and see how many customers I could get.
>
> As an alternative, I have been toying with the idea of releasing it
> under an Open Source license. Part of my thinking is to put something
> back into the Open Source community - I love working with Python,
> wxPython, PostgreSQL, etc, and it would be nice to contribute
> something. The other part of my thinking is that it should be
> possible, with a sound business model, to make a viable income out of
> supporting an Open Source product. However, as I have no experience of
> this, I was wondering how other people survive financially in the Open
> Source world. I have no "big daddy" that will pay me to pursue my
> dreams, so whatever I do has to bring in a reasonable income.
>
> Here are some of my ideas - any comments will by much appreciated.
>
> The essence of a business model must be that the source code may be
> free, but you have to pay for support. I believe that accounting
> systems more than most systems need support, and that a sensible
> company looking for accounting software would not consider anything
> that was not supported. Therefore it is important to decide what kind
> of support should be offered, and how to persuade customers to sign up
> for it.
>
> The software must be downloadable and runnable by anyone, and it must
> be fully functional, at no charge. I realise that there is an option
> to restrict functionality in the free version and make it available
> only to licensed users, but then you are into security codes, source
> code protection, etc, which would at least partially defeat the
> object, so I am not thinking along those lines. There will be full
> online help (it will probably start off sketchy, but I will improve it
> over time), and maybe there should be an FAQ available. That, I think,
> is all that should be free.
>
> I would like to open a free discussion forum (probably a mailing list)
> to discuss the software from a technical perspective. I am an
> experienced programmer, but I am nowhere near being a Pythonista, so I
> am sure there will be many areas ripe for improvement. I would like to
> remain open to as much of this kind of feedback as possible.
>
> However, any support of the software from a business or accounting
> perspective will be available to registered users only. For a monthly
> support fee (I am thinking of a range of $50-100 per month - let me
> know if it is too high or too low) users will be able to request
> support via email, which will be responded to promptly. I have a small
> staff at present, and if this idea is successful I will plough money
> back into expanding the support infrastructure.
>
> To retain registered users once their software has settled down, I
> have in mind a website restricted to registered users which will
> provide sufficiently interesting content to persuade them to keep up
> their registration. The main content I can think of is enhancement
> requests - it is the nature of accounting software that there is a
> continuous demand for enhancements, and I intend to keep on enhancing
> and improving the product. I envisage a forum where users can forward
> ideas, and others can respond/comment/criticise until there is some
> consensus. A roadmap of agreed enhancements can be posted on the free
> website, which will hopefully attract more users into signing up so
> that they can participate.
>
> Here are a couple of pitfalls that I can see, and my possible
> solutions to them. Firstly, a user will be able to terminate his
> support contract at any time, and the software will continue to
> function. Therefore some may be tempted to stop paying until they have
> a problem, then pay for a month, get an answer, and stop again. My
> thinking is that 3 months must be paid up front to activate a support
> contract. Secondly, a consultant may use my software to build up a
> client base, pay a single support fee, and use that to support all his
> clients. I don't think I can (or even want to) prevent that, but I can
> restrict it by limiting each contract to a single email address for
> replies to support queries.
>
> These are my thoughts so far. Any comments - suggestions, warnings,
> personal experiences - will be much appreciated.
>
> Many thanks
>
> Frank Millman





From johnfabel at btinternet.com  Mon Jul 21 12:59:24 2003
From: johnfabel at btinternet.com (John Abel)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 17:59:24 +0100
Subject: PYConfig.h/_FILE_OFFSET_BITS On Solaris
Message-ID: <3F1C1BEC.6060905@btinternet.com>

Hi,

I have written a Python module in C, for the parsing of /proc.  I have 
written it using the Structured Proc API, as per Sun's 
documentation/recommendations.  However, in order to get it to compile, 
I have had to define _LP64, include <ProcFS.h>, and then undefine it, to 
get round the fact, pyconfig.h defines _FILE_OFFSET_BITS.  This seems to 
be forcing everything to support large file support, something that is 
not allowed for correct parsing of /proc.

Does anyone know of a way round this?  I've included the code below.  I 
have a pure C version of the script, which works fine.

Thanks

John

#include "Python.h"

#include <stdio.h>
#define _LP64
#include <procfs.h>
#undef _LP64
#include <fcntl.h>
#include <sys/types.h>
#include <sys/stat.h>

static PyObject *
psinfo_fullpidinfo(PyObject *self, PyObject *args)
{
    PyObject *queryPid;
    char procBuf[50];
    char argStr[512];
    char **argvp;
    int fdPSInfoFile, fdASFile, counter;
    struct psinfo psBuf;

    if (!PyArg_ParseTuple(args, "i:pidinfo", &queryPid) ) {
        return NULL;
    }
   
    (void)sprintf(procBuf,"/proc/%i/psinfo", (int)queryPid);
    (void)sprintf(asBuf,"/proc/%i/as", (int)queryPid);
   
    if ((fdPSInfoFile = open(procBuf, O_RDONLY)) != -1 ) {
        if (read(fdPSInfoFile, &psBuf, sizeof(struct psinfo)) == 
sizeof(struct psinfo) ) {
            close(fdPSInfoFile);
            if ((fdASFile = open(asBuf, O_RDONLY)) == -1 ) {
                printf(" Open Of AS Failed");
            }
            else {
                printf( "%d", psBuf.pr_argc);
                argvp=(char **) malloc(sizeof(char *) * (psBuf.pr_argc + 
1));
               
                if (lseek(fdASFile, psBuf.pr_argv, SEEK_SET) == -1) {
                    printf ("Initial LSeek Failed" );
                    return NULL;
                }
               
                if (read(fdASFile, argvp, sizeof(char *) * 
(psBuf.pr_argc + 1)) == -1 ) {
                    printf( "Read Failed" );
                    return NULL;
                }
                for ( counter=0; counter < psBuf.pr_argc; counter++ ) {
                    if (lseek(fdASFile, argvp[ counter ], SEEK_SET) == -1) {
                        printf( "2nd LSeek Failed");
                        return NULL;
                    }
                    if (read(fdASFile, argStr, 512) == -1) {
                        printf( "Read Of AS File Failed");
                        return NULL;
                    }
                    printf( "Got %s.\n", argStr );
                }
                close(fdASFile);
            }
        }
    }
    return Py_BuildValue( "s", argStr );
}

static struct PyMethodDef PSInfoMethods[]={
    { "fullpidinfo", psinfo_fullpidinfo, METH_VARARGS, "Display Full Arg 
Details For A Given PID" },
    { NULL, NULL, 0, NULL }
};

void initpsinfo(void)
{

    (void)Py_InitModule("psinfo", PSInfoMethods);
}






From monsterkodi at gmx.net  Tue Jul  8 08:38:53 2003
From: monsterkodi at gmx.net (Thorsten Kohnhorst)
Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 14:38:53 +0200
Subject: SWIG and Python in use?
References: <f4a45085.0307070640.3c619c22@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3F0ABB5D.4090800@gmx.net>

Hello Alan,

I've used SWIG and Python in a game I wrote last year.
Python was used for writing the various levels and some
aspects of the user interface.
It was very easy to export most of my C++ Interfaces to
Python 2.x. I experienced no problems and can highly
recommend using SWIG for scripting and prototyping C++-
applications.
If interested, you may find the sources at:
http://kiki.sourceforge.net

Yours kodi

Alan Sheehan wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I am considering scripting a large C++ application.
> 
> In particular I am interested in test driving and end-user scripting
> the "application layer" in Python and giving it access to a large
> collection of C++ objects and their methods.
> 
> I note that SWIG is a mature tool and refers to supporting Python
> v1.x.
> 
> Has/Does anyone use SWIG to bind with Python 2.x ?. 
> 
> Does it still work?
> Any pitfalls, caveats ?
> 
> Thanks in advance.
> 
> Alan




From gh at ghaering.de  Fri Jul 18 07:26:59 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 13:26:59 +0200
Subject: "\n" in ASCII-file
In-Reply-To: <bf8j40$bj4e4$1@ID-108519.news.uni-berlin.de>
References: <bf8j40$bj4e4$1@ID-108519.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <3F17D983.3000806@ghaering.de>

Martin P wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> for a short exercise-program I have to read the lines in an ASCII-file.
> 
> But every line has a new-line-feed ("\n") at the end of the line. (The
> ASCII-file was made with Windows Notepad).
> Is this only because I used Windows (and Notepad)?

Yes.

> And... is there any special method to read lines from a file without "\n"?

Most of the time, I want to strip any trailing whitespace and do 
something like:

f = file("/path/to/my/file")
for line in f:
     line = line.strip()
     # ...

Unlike Karl's method, this scales to larger files without needing to 
read the whole file into memory.

Files are iterable since Python 2.2.

-- Gerhard




From gh at ghaering.de  Sun Jul 27 12:00:11 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (Gerhard Haering)
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 18:00:11 +0200
Subject: Tools for reading Dr Dobb's Python-URL
In-Reply-To: <20030727144122.GA1689@mirk.lan>
References: <mailman.1059296203.18871.python-list@python.org>
	<3f23bc25$0$49102$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
	<20030727144122.GA1689@mirk.lan>
Message-ID: <20030727160011.GA847@lilith.ghaering.test>

* Egbert Bouwman <egbert.list at hccnet.nl> [2003-07-27 16:41 +0200]:
> On Sun, Jul 27, 2003 at 01:48:55PM +0200, Irmen de Jong wrote:
> > 
> > Open the message in your news reader.
> > Click on an URL in the message.
> > 
> > Sorry, couldn't resist. I'm not sure what you want to
> > do, really? 
> 
> My mail reader is the text-based Mutt, which:
> - doesn't react to mouse clicks
> - does show url's in a different color

Mutt is infinitely configurable:

color body       brightcyan     black \
  "((ftp|http|https)://|(file|mailto|news):|www\\.)[-a-z at 0-9_.:]*[a-z0-9](/[^][{} \t\n\r\"<>()]*[^][{} \t\n\r\"<>().,:])?"

> - seems not to do anything useful with them [...]

I highlight the whole URL with the mouse, then middle-click in my GUI browser
window to open a URL I see in mutt.

Alternatively you could use a terminal program like KDE's konsole that parses
URLs itself and makes them clickable.

-- Gerhard




From bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au  Wed Jul 23 22:17:39 2003
From: bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au (Ben Finney)
Date: 24 Jul 2003 12:07:39 +0950
Subject: Cookbook idea - single-shot __init__
References: <764b8294.0307221520.18017b09@posting.google.com> <mailman.1058930376.7219.python-list@python.org> <mXdYCLAc0jH$EwJR@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <mailman.1059009457.3385.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrnbhuhjj.tuj.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>

On Wed, 23 Jul 2003 19:15:23 -0600, Bob Gailer wrote:
> I have at times had the need to initialize some things once at the
> class level

In Python 2.2 (earlier?) you can define any attribute at the class
level, and it will be shared by all instances:

    class Foo( object ):
        grumble = 0.1
        flibble = {}
        def __init__( self ):
            ''' Instance initialisation '''
            return

This causes the attributes 'grumble', 'flibble', and '__init__()' to be
shared by all Foo instances; anything done within __init__() will affect
the individual instance only.

-- 
 \      "I stayed up all night playing poker with tarot cards. I got a |
  `\               full house and four people died."  -- Steven Wright |
_o__)                                                                  |
http://bignose.squidly.org/ 9CFE12B0 791A4267 887F520C B7AC2E51 BD41714B



From alanmk at hotmail.com  Tue Jul  8 12:44:19 2003
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 17:44:19 +0100
Subject: anything new on the ternary operator?
References: <3F09E4B4.FED89C06@alcyone.com>, <3F09252F.9B0F52BD@alcyone.com>, <mailman.1057533670.9800.python-list@python.org> <beae42$d01$1@panix2.panix.com> <mailman.1057574950.16136.python-list@python.org> <mailman.1057642872.21988.python-list@python.org> <40a939c9.0307080622.3118cfd7@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3F0AF4E3.CDBF6C0C@hotmail.com>

Alia Khouri wrote:

> Sorry, I am confused: isn't Israel in the Middle East?

Well, I prefer to avoid the geopolitics, but it is worth noting that
Israel enters the Eurovision song contest every year :-)

And even wins occasionally! Although not all Israelis were happy with
the last Israeli winner, Dana International :-

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/special_report/1998/05/98/eurovision/90279.stm
http://www.jewishsf.com/bk980515/ettrans.htm

regards,

-- 
alan kennedy
-----------------------------------------------------
check http headers here: http://xhaus.com/headers
email alan:              http://xhaus.com/mailto/alan



From danbmil99 at yahoo.com  Thu Jul 24 22:25:36 2003
From: danbmil99 at yahoo.com (dan)
Date: 24 Jul 2003 19:25:36 -0700
Subject: python assignment
References: <mailman.1058992140.17079.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <fbf8d8f2.0307241825.bd3b315@posting.google.com>

er, my example in last post should have been:

>>> for x in range(3):
...  for y in range(3):
...   temp[y] = x+y
...  v[x] = temp
...
>>> v
[[2, 3, 4], [2, 3, 4], [2, 3, 4]] #Surprise!  You're in Pythonville

#fixed:

>>> for x in range(3):
...  for y in range(3):
...   temp[y] = x+y
...  v[x] = temp + []
...
>>> v
[[0, 1, 2], [1, 2, 3], [2, 3, 4]] #expected behavior

but again the +[] looks funky in the morning light.  Can I always
assume that an operation of this sort will return a new object, even
if it has no effect on one of the operands?

I suppose a clearer fix would be v[x] = copy.copy(temp), eh?

"Tim Peters" <tim.one at comcast.net> wrote in message news:<mailman.1058992140.17079.python-list at python.org>...
> [Tim]
> >> It would be very unusual (because bad design) for the __iadd__
> >> method of a mutable type to return a pre-existing object, though.
> 
> [Juha Autero]
> > I'm confused. I thought that the idea of __iadd__ is that for
> > *mutable* types it modifies existing object instead of returning new
> > one.
> 
> Bjorn added more appropriate words -- it would be bad design for the
> __iadd__ method of a mutable type to return a pre-existing object other than
> self.
> 
> >>> a = [1, 2]
> >>> b = [1]
> >>> b += [2]
> 
> While "a == b" must be true at this point, it would be a nightmare if "a is
> b" could be true at this point.  For immutable types it doesn't matter:
> 
> >>> a = (1, 2)
> >>> b = (1,)
> >>> b += (2,)
> 
> It so happens that "a is b" is not true at this point under any Python
> released so far, but it could be true someday without causing harm.
> 
> Sorry for the confusion!



From bokr at oz.net  Wed Jul 16 01:18:48 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 16 Jul 2003 05:18:48 GMT
Subject: anything like C++ references?
References: <b8c3hvsesjoumiboobml3nsnajtha99mp1@4ax.com> <mailman.1058129901.28248.python-list@python.org> <plk3hv0s1m2egf4s34jo6vjedk0q8r2mu9@4ax.com> <m365m6ul5c.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <mailman.1058145500.19181.python-list@python.org> <e464hvcq48q3240ecfcs6jqhqf616q7v1a@4ax.com> <3F1256C0.4BDC816F@alcyone.com> <vdl6hvckre5pms4n8bcn0nf1ma09ikse0f@4ax.com> <bf1ocu$jeq$0@216.39.172.122> <i5r8hvk57sjpagf2bnttov2h4qohg0pjq2@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <bf2n7o$bri$0@216.39.172.122>

On Tue, 15 Jul 2003 22:14:20 +0100, Stephen Horne <intentionally at blank.co.uk> wrote:

>On 15 Jul 2003 20:32:30 GMT, bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 15 Jul 2003 02:40:27 +0100, Stephen Horne <intentionally at blank.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>>On Mon, 14 Jul 2003 00:07:44 -0700, Erik Max Francis <max at alcyone.com>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>Stephen Horne wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Imagine, for instance, changing all assignments and other 'copying' to
>>>>> use a copy-on-write system. Then add a pointer type and a 'newcopyof'
>>>>> operator. And nick the C-style prefix '*' for dereferencing and add
>>>>> '&' as a 'make a pointer to this object' operator (absolutely NOT a
>>>>> physical memory address).
>>>>
>>>>The problem is that this misses the point that Python is not C++.  You
>>>>shouldn't try grafting syntaxes and approaches that make Python look
>>>>more like C++, you should be learning to use Python on its own merits.
>>>
>>>Not true.
>>>
>>>If you eliminate all violations of the idea of variables bound to
>>>values (basically the whole point of my thread), then mutable
>>>containers cannot achieve the same thing.
>>>
>>>If a copy-on-write scheme is added to Python, you'd get the following
>>>results from using mutable containers...
>>>
>>>>>> a = [1, 2, 3]
>>>>>> b = a
>>>>>> b[2] = 4
>>>>>> a
>>>[1, 2, 3]
>>>>>> b
>>>[1, 2, 4]
>>>
>>Yes, but it would be hugely inefficient for the case where, e.g., you are
>>modifying lines read from a 20MB log file. Imagine inducing a 20MB copy
>>every time you wanted to delete or modify a line. Now you have to invent
>>a way to program around what can be done very conveniently and efficiently
>>thanks to Python's semantics.
>
>What makes you say that!
>
>Copies are only made when they are needed. The lazy copy optimisation,
>in other words, still exists.
(BTW, don't get hung up on this part, ok? Skip forward to the ==[ code part ]==
below if you're going to skip ;-)

Ok, so the copy happens at b[2]=4 right? This is still useless copying
if the holder of the "a" reference *wants* to have it as a continuing
reference to the same single shared list. And you can program that in C++
if you want to, and you presumably would. Except now you have to create pointer variable.

Ok now how would you handle the case of multiple copies of that pointer variable?
Make it "smart" so that you get copy-on-write of what it points to? That's the discussion
we're having about the first level of Python references, ISTM.

>
>Delete or modify one string in a list of strings, and the same stuff
>would happen as happens now. Unless, perhaps somewhere you don't know
So a 20MB log file in the form of a string list might be 500,000 lines of 40-byte log entries,
which would be 2MB of 4-byte pointers. Cheap copy when you explicitly don't want it,
but want to share the same list?

>about, the caller of your function who passed that list in to you has
>a separate reference they expect to stay unchanged. In that case, the
>first changed string triggers a copy of the list - but as the list
>only contains references to strings, it doesn't trigger copying of all
>the strings. The second line changed doesn't require the list to be
>modified again because you already have your separate copy.
Sure, but the first unwanted copy cost you.
>
>C++ uses exactly this kind of approach for the std::string class among
>others. Copy-on-write is a pretty common transparent implementation
>detail in 'heavy' classes, including those written by your everyday
>programmers. Does that mean C++ is slower that Python? Of course not!
>
It could be, if the unwanted copying was big enough. Except you wouldn't
program it like that. You'd program it to share mutable data like Python
for a case like that.

In any case, the performance is a side issue, however practically important,
to the discussion of the language semantics.

===[ code part ]=================
I'm a bit disappointed in not getting a comment on class NSHorne ;-)

BTW, that was not a faked interactive log. It doesn't have lazy copy, but
that could be arranged. Though that's an implementation optimization issue, right?

Does that namespace have the semantics you are calling for or not? ;-)
If I add a mechanism to create and dereference "pointers" re that namespace, will
that do it?  Here's a go at that:

 >>> class NSHorne(object):
 ...     from cPickle import dumps, loads
 ...     class Ptr(object):
 ...         def __init__(self, ns, name): self.ns=ns; self.name=name
 ...         def __getitem__(self, i): return getattr(self.ns, self.name)
 ...         def __setitem__(self, i, v): setattr(self.ns, self.name, v)
 ...     def __setattr__(self, name, val):
 ...         if isinstance(val, self.Ptr):
 ...             object.__setattr__(self, name, val)
 ...         else:
 ...             object.__setattr__(self, name, self.loads(self.dumps(val)))
 ...     def __getitem__(self, name): return self.Ptr(self, name)
 ...
 >>> ns = NSHorne()
set the value of x:
 >>> ns.x = [1, 2, 3]

make a "pointer" to x
 >>> ns.px = ns['x']

You can use ordinary Python aliases with the "pointer"
 >>> p=ns.px

You *p dereference it like:
 >>> p[:]
 [1, 2, 3]

And here's a function that expects such a pointer
 >>> def foo(bar):
 ...    bar[:] = 'something from bar'  # like *bar=
 ...

You can pass it to an ordinary Python function

 >>> foo(p)

And dereference it again to see what happened
 >>> p[:]  #like *p
 'something from bar'

Or look at what it was pointing to
 >>> ns.x
 'something from bar'

or look via the original pointer in ns
 >>> ns.px[:]  # like *px
 'something from bar'

and alias it some more
 >>> p2 = p
 >>> p2[:]=(3,4,5)
 >>> ns.x
 (3, 4, 5)

Or to play with one of your original examples:

 >>> ns.a = [1, 2, 3]
 >>> ns.b = ns.a
 >>> ns.b[2] = 4
 >>> ns.a
 [1, 2, 3]
 >>> ns.b
 [1, 2, 4]

Make "pointer: to b:
 >>> p = ns['b']
 >>> ns.b
 [1, 2, 4]
 >>> ns.b[0]=-1
 >>> ns.b
 [-1, 2, 4]

Now dereference p:
 >>> p[:]
 [-1, 2, 4]

Use dereferenced pointer to mod value
 >>> p[:][1]=-1

Check values
 >>> ns.b
 [-1, -1, 4]
 >>> ns.a
 [1, 2, 3]
 >>> p[:]
 [-1, -1, 4]
 >>>

But we can set something else than that list:
 >>> p[:] = 'something else'
 >>> ns.b
 'something else'

IOW,
    p = &x is spelled ns.p = ns['x']
and
    *p = x is spelled ns.p[:] = ns.x
and
    y = *p is spelled ns.y = ns.p[:]
and
    you can pass ns.p to a function def foo(bar): and dereference it as bar[:] there

Does this give names in ns the "variable" semantics you wanted? Is there any difference
other than "semantic sugar?" Explaining the difference, if any, will also clarify what
you are after, to me, and maybe others ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From warkid at hotbox.ru  Mon Jul 21 12:25:24 2003
From: warkid at hotbox.ru (Kerim)
Date: 21 Jul 2003 09:25:24 -0700
Subject: Dr. Dobb's Python-URL! - weekly Python news and links (Jul 21)
References: <vhne9r38jpsq8a@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <7c58a0f1.0307210825.b17defa@posting.google.com>

Any posted URL of form "http://groups.google.com/groups?..." doesn't work for me;-(



From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Jul 21 16:45:58 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 16:45:58 -0400
Subject: Python scripting with Paint Shop Pro 8.0
References: <kl3lhvgh5iillo5g9jvff92qkc8i2022nm@4ax.com> <mailman.1058775152.5377.python-list@python.org> <rajnhv0g0d21okj8uhebsakehgm9i6slvh@4ax.com> <mailman.1058790515.18332.python-list@python.org> <h65ohvs749mp0gctgve7t0qmojhrn642br@4ax.com> <3F1C307E.1A00BBD0@engcorp.com> <mpjohvs4qjrfq1fidc3bknr2g9t25d1nqe@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3F1C5106.580EBFEA@engcorp.com>

Marc Wilson wrote:
> 
> In comp.lang.python,  Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> (Peter Hansen) wrote
> in <3F1C307E.1A00BBD0 at engcorp.com>::
> 
> |Marc Wilson wrote:
> |>
> |> Groovy.  I may become a Python convert.  *sigh*  I've not finished learning
> |> perl yet, and now I've got a new shiny toy. :)
> |
> |Excellent!  You have much less to _un_learn then. :-)
> 
> I'm not here to participate in any religious wars. :)

Sorry, I must have misinterpreted your use of the word "convert" then.  ;-)



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Fri Jul 25 13:44:45 2003
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 13:44:45 -0400
Subject: Why instancemethod when I can add functions to classes outside class body?
References: <6f03c4a5.0307242027.85f195a@posting.google.com> <m3oezj6v6w.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <slrnbi1hsk.hkq.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local> <3f210717$0$76049$edfadb0f@dread11.news.tele.dk>
Message-ID: <z66cnQ3uq8sT8byiU-KYvw@comcast.com>

"Anders J. Munch" <andersjm at dancontrol.dk> wrote in message
news:3f210717$0$76049$edfadb0f at dread11.news.tele.dk...
> "Ben Finney" <bignose-hates-spam at and-benfinney-does-too.id.au>
wrote:
> > On 25 Jul 2003 07:18:15 +0200, Martin v. L?wis wrote:
> > > rimbalaya at yahoo.com (Rim) writes:
> > >> So what problem is the new.instancemethod() trying to solve?
> > >
> > > It has no side effects on the class it is an instancemethod of.
> >
> > So what side effects (i.e. what problem) is the
new.instancemethod()
> > trying to solve?
>
> Assigning to the class changes the behaviour of all instances of
that class.

Since changing the behavior of all instances is precisely the purpose
of making such an assignment (of function to class as method), that is
a feature, not a problem.

>  new.instancemethod can be used to add a method to an  individual
instance.
>
> >>> class A: pass
> ...
> >>> a1 = A(); a2 = A()
> >>> a1.f = new.instancemethod(lambda self: "hi", a1, A)
> >>> a2.f()
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
> AttributeError: A instance has no attribute 'f'
> >>> a1.f()
> 'hi'

So to answer the OP's question, the problem solved is that directly
assigning a function as an instance attribute binds the function as a
function, which means no *automatic* access to the instance and its
other attributes.  If such access is needed, the instance must be
passed explicitly, as in
a1.f = lambda self: repr(self)
a1.f(a1)

Instancemethod adds the option of wrapping instance-specific functions
as bound methods getting the instance as an automatic first (self)
paramater, just like with class-wide methods.  In the 'hi' example
above, since the self (psuedo)param is is ignored,
a1.f = lambda: 'hi'
would have the same net effect.  However,
a1.f = new.instancemethod(lambda self: repr(self), a1, A)
requires the wrapping to avoid having to explicitly pass the instance.

Terry J. Reedy





From mciperf at cox.rr.com  Tue Jul  8 20:29:53 2003
From: mciperf at cox.rr.com (Gerard C Blais)
Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 20:29:53 -0400
Subject: anygui newbie question
Message-ID: <54omgv8rb7p08uct892h6q1qck489gvoph@4ax.com>

I'm trying to learn anygui, running on Win98.  When I run backend(), I
get mswgui.

I've typed in the first program from the manual (one button, random
sentence in text box  on click).

Window comes up fine.  When I click the button, I get a run-time error
and the traceback says my handler function has received an unexpected
argument, "source".  As far as I can tell, "source" should be
expected.

I do have a link call (link (btn, handler).

Any ideas?  Any place to look besides the on-line manual ahd Hetland's
Practical Python?

Thanks,

Gerry



From mis6 at pitt.edu  Sat Jul 19 09:29:41 2003
From: mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato)
Date: 19 Jul 2003 06:29:41 -0700
Subject: feature request: a better str.endswith
References: <2259b0e2.0307180401.5dae02f2@posting.google.com> <mailman.1058530829.7072.python-list@python.org> <3f17f883$0$49107$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <2259b0e2.0307190529.57338b3f@posting.google.com>

Irmen de Jong <irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl> wrote in message news:<3f17f883$0$49107$e4fe514c at news.xs4all.nl>...
> Jp Calderone wrote:
> > On Fri, Jul 18, 2003 at 05:01:47AM -0700, Michele Simionato wrote:
> > 
> >>I often feel the need to extend  the string method ".endswith" to tuple
> >>arguments, in such a way to automatically check for multiple endings.
> >>For instance, here is a typical use case:
> >>
> >>if filename.endswith(('.jpg','.jpeg','.gif','.png')):
> >>    print "This is a valid image file"
> >>
> >>Currently this is not valid Python and I must use the ugly
> >>
> >>if filename.endswith('.jpg') or filename.endswith('.jpeg') \
> >>   or filename.endswith('.gif') or filename.endswith('.png'):
> >>    print "This is a valid image file"
> > 
> > 
> >     extensions = ('.jpg', '.jpeg', '.gif', '.png')
> >     if filter(filename.endswith, extensions):
> >         print "This is a valid image file
> > 
> >   Jp
> > 
> 
> Using filter Michele's original statement becomes:
> 
> if filter(filename.endswith, ('.jpg','.jpeg','.gif','.png')):
>      print "This is a valid image file"
> 
> IMHO this is simple enough to not require a change to the
> .endswith method...
> 
> --Irmen

I haven't thought of "filter". It is true, it works, but is it really
readable? I had to think to understand what it is doing.
My (implicit) rationale for

filename.endswith(('.jpg','.jpeg','.gif','.png'))

was that it works exactly as "isinstance", so it is quite
obvious what it is doing. I am asking just for a convenience,
which has already a precedent in the language and respects 
the Principle of Least Surprise.

                       Michele



From amk at amk.ca  Thu Jul 10 10:42:51 2003
From: amk at amk.ca (A.M. Kuchling)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 09:42:51 -0500
Subject: Memory leak ??
References: <3f0d5d3f$0$13154$edfadb0f@dread15.news.tele.dk>
Message-ID: <Nc6dnUzcbfn25pCiRTvUqw@speakeasy.net>

On Thu, 10 Jul 2003 14:34:05 +0200, 
	Kim Petersen <kp at kyborg.dk> wrote:
> Using python-2.2.2-26 on RH9 (shrike) x86 -fully patched
> 
> The following program slowly eats up more and more memory when run on
> large datasets... can anyone tell what the trouble is?

Your code uses eval(), which is pretty heavyweight because it has to
tokenize, parse, and then evaluate the string.  There have been a few memory
leaks in eval(), and perhaps you're running into one of them.  Try using
int() or float() to convert strings to numbers instead of eval.  As a bonus,
your program will be faster and much more secure (could an attacker tweak 
your logfiles so you end up eval()ing os.unlink('/etc/passwd')?).

In general, using eval() is almost always a mistake; few programs need to 
take arbitrary expressions as input.

--amk



From achrist at easystreet.com  Fri Jul  4 13:17:29 2003
From: achrist at easystreet.com (achrist at easystreet.com)
Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 10:17:29 -0700
Subject: Form using HTML on PythonCard
References: <mailman.1057322477.18286.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3F05B6A9.72935EA8@easystreet.com>

You can put panels of widgets into HTML very nicely with wxPython.

The version of HTML that the wxHtmlCtrl supports is pretty simple,
but it includes a hook for extending it, the WXP tag.  This looks 
something like this embedded in your html:

	<wxp module = "somemodule" class="SomeClass" width="95%">
        <param name="id"     value="-1"> </wxp>

Although the demo that comes with wxPython does something simple
like embedding a button, I just about always derive SomeClass from
wxPanel, and I use sizers to control the layout of several
controls within the panel.  The constructor will start like this:

	class SomeClass(wxPanel):
    		def __init__(self, parent, id=-1, size=wxDefaultSize)         		
wxPanel.__init__(self, parent, id, size=size)

IDK how to pass in object references as constructor parameters in the
embedded HTML, so these panels seem to often wind up using globals to
communicate with the rest of the program.   

Keep in mind that the constructor for this panel is not called until
the HTML actually gets put into the wxHtmlCtrl (by SetPage, etc).
The panel also gets automatically destroyed when the next contents get
put into the wxHtmlCtrl, so don't hang on to any references to it.

IDK if PythonCard supports this control or not. Haven't used
pythoncard.

I alsways use wxCallAfter to send the next page to the wxHtmlCtrl.
That way I don't have to worry about a panel destroying itself while
its still running by changing the screen contents. wxCallAfter waits
until the current UI event is completely processed before doing 
whatever it does.

This all leads to a pretty convenient style of programming.  I throw
something at the screen, the user clicks something,  maybe this makes
me throw something else at the screen, maybe it doesn't.  If not,
he's still got the same screen to try something else.  You don't
have to work out a hierarchy of screens where the user is forever
drilling down and popping up -- they can have more browser-like
freedom.  Makes their heads spin.  Keep a copy of the HTML and give
them a back button.


Al



From Andreas.Ames at tenovis.com  Wed Jul 23 04:31:05 2003
From: Andreas.Ames at tenovis.com (Ames Andreas (MPA/DF))
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 10:31:05 +0200
Subject: How is the execution order of 'x = z'? (also: Python FAQ 4.88
	)
Message-ID: <788E231C269961418F38D3E360D1652526C9CD@tndefr-ws00021.tenovis.corp.lan>

Hello,

"Ulrich Petri" <ulope at gmx.de> writes:

> 1. its not y's reference count that gets (possibly) decremented but
> the-object-y-points-to

Thanks for the clarification, that's what I wanted to say (but failed
to say).

> 2. in this example noting will be decremented since y never goes out of
> scope. Just by assining y to x you dont ~invalidate~ y.

Obviously my sample was somehow ambigous.  The assignment I cared
about was 'x = z' (like in the subject).  I wanted to make the sample
clear by the other assignment.  Sorry!

Below is a more selfcontained sample (assume that x, y and z are not
bound before the code is executed):

>>> class Foo:
...     def __del__(self):
...             print '__del__(%#x)' % id(self)
...
>>> y = Foo()
>>> print '%#x' % id(y)
0x8152e7c
>>> z = 0
>>> print '%#x' % id(z)
0x80cbf70
>>> x = y
>>> print '%#x' % id(x)
0x8152e7c
>>> del y
>>> print '%#x' % id(x)
0x8152e7c
>>> x = z
__del__(0x8152e7c)
>>> print '%#x' % id(x)
0x80cbf70

The assignment 'x = z' calls Foo.__del__.  What I wanted to know is:

Is Foo.__del__ called *before* x refers to an integer object of value
0 or *afterwards*.  In other words, does x refer to a possibly
(partially) invalid object while Foo.__del__ is executed, or what is
the Python FAQ 4.88 referring to (within the final paragraph which
begins with 'Note:', dealing with atomicity of operations replacing
objects)?


TIA,

andreas




From tebeka at cs.bgu.ac.il  Mon Jul  7 08:39:34 2003
From: tebeka at cs.bgu.ac.il (Miki Tebeka)
Date: 7 Jul 2003 05:39:34 -0700
Subject: Problems with py2exe for python 2.3 beta
References: <bearnh$iip$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>
Message-ID: <33803989.0307070439.6decf52c@posting.google.com>

Hello Jamie,

> - I've included "-p encodings" in the command line flags, but still get the
> "no codec search functions registered" error at runtime.
I had the same problem. IIRC adding "import encodings" (and maybe
importing the specific encodings as well) did the trick.

> - py2exe is now including tcl files as dependencies, whereas these weren't
> required in the python 2.2 version.
I don't recall it doing that. Maybe some module you're using imports
Tkinter.

HTH.
Miki



From m at moshez.org  Tue Jul  8 13:38:21 2003
From: m at moshez.org (Moshe Zadka)
Date: 8 Jul 2003 17:38:21 -0000
Subject: anything new on the ternary operator?
In-Reply-To: <3F0AF4E3.CDBF6C0C@hotmail.com>
References: <3F0AF4E3.CDBF6C0C@hotmail.com>, <3F09E4B4.FED89C06@alcyone.com>, <3F09252F.9B0F52BD@alcyone.com>, <mailman.1057533670.9800.python-list@python.org> <beae42$d01$1@panix2.panix.com> <mailman.1057574950.16136.python-list@python.org> <mailman.1057642872.21988.python-list@python.org> <40a939c9.0307080622.3118cfd7@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20030708173821.13840.qmail@green.zadka.com>

On Tue, 08 Jul 2003, Alan Kennedy <alanmk at hotmail.com> wrote:

> And even wins occasionally! Although not all Israelis were happy with
> the last Israeli winner, Dana International

Well, not all the Israelis were happy when she *won*.
Everybody, of course, had a field day when she dropped the award when
Israel hosted the competition the next year...
 
-- 
Moshe Zadka -- http://moshez.org/
Buffy: I don't like you hanging out with someone that... short.
Riley: Yeah, a lot of young people nowadays are experimenting with shortness.
Agile Programming Language -- http://www.python.org/




From ansible at typhoon.xnet.com  Thu Jul 31 15:29:34 2003
From: ansible at typhoon.xnet.com (James Graves)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 19:29:34 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Misuse of <tab>
References: <3f27f0e3$1@news.broadpark.no> <RbTVa.8214$gU6.967766@twister.nyc.rr.com> <pan.2003.07.30.20.07.18.351027@cs.rit.edu> <38ec68a6.0307301841.dfb951a@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bgbqmu$ksv$1@flood.xnet.com>

Asun Friere <afriere at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

>If you use vim remember to put 'set expandtab' (or if you wanna be
>fancy 'au BufRead,BufNewFile *.py set expandtab' ) into your .vimrc
>(or .exrc) file.  This way you can use '[Ctrl]-[T]' and '[Ctrl]-[D]'
>to in- and un-dent in insert mode, as well as '>>' and '<<' in command
>mode, without fear of hard tabs being inserted.  (Though the way vi(m)
>mixes tabs and spaces is consistent enough that you wouldn't usually
>get into any trouble with it.)

That's handy.  I had known about 'set expandtab' for a while, but I
wanted to figure out how to use it for just Python.

And now I don't have to.

Thanks,

James Graves



From bignose-hates-spam at and-benfinney-does-too.id.au  Thu Jul 31 18:38:41 2003
From: bignose-hates-spam at and-benfinney-does-too.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: 1 Aug 2003 08:28:41 +0950
Subject: looking for design pattern name
References: <bg1lt6$81g$1@slb2.atl.mindspring.net> <glMVa.2873$Jz2.2213@nwrdny02.gnilink.net> <bg976j$s7$1@slb4.atl.mindspring.net> <87adaud0he.fsf@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <slrnbij7p1.ejq.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>

On 31 Jul 2003 19:17:49 +0100, John J. Lee wrote:
> "Andrew Dalke" <adalke at mindspring.com> writes:
>> Err, I tangented, didn't I.
> 
> "Verbing weirds language", to quote Calvin.

 From my sigmonster:

    "First they came for the verbs, and I said nothing, for verbing
    weirds language.  Then, they arrival for the nouns and I speech
    nothing, for I no verbs."  -- Peter Ellis

-- 
 \         "I'm beginning to think that life is just one long Yoko Ono |
  `\   album; no rhyme or reason, just a lot of incoherent shrieks and |
_o__)                                   then it's over."  -- Ian Wolff |
Ben Finney <http://bignose.squidly.org/>



From sjmachin at lexicon.net  Sun Jul 20 20:51:10 2003
From: sjmachin at lexicon.net (John Machin)
Date: 20 Jul 2003 17:51:10 -0700
Subject: Strings and Unicode
References: <fef0a228.0307200027.2ef962e9@posting.google.com> <fef0a228.0307200828.6c171de7@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <c76ff6fc.0307201651.34040c07@posting.google.com>

madsurfer2000 at hotmail.com (-) wrote in message news:<fef0a228.0307200828.6c171de7 at posting.google.com>...
> I wrote:
> > I have a function that takes a string as an input parameter. This
> > function then urlencodes the string and sends it to a server with
> > telnetlib.Telnet
> > 
> > The problem is that the string gets converted into what seems to be
> > Unicode. How can I check to see if the input-string is Unicode and
> > convert it to a different character set (in this case ISO-Latin1).
> 
> I see that my question may have been asked in the wrong way, so here's
> more details:
> 
> I'm using Python 2.2.2. under Windows XP. The function I was talking
> about actually takes two strings, and I send both parameters to the
> urlencode function. The urlencode-function I use is imported from
> urllib.
> 
> My function:
> 
> def addPOSTParam(self,name,value):

insert here: print 'value:', type(value), repr(value)

>     param = urlencode({name: value})

insert here: print 'param:', type(param), repr(param)

>     self.POSTParameters.append(param)
> 
> Example:
> 
> client.addPOSTParam("param","abc ?")
> 
> POSTParameters then looks like:
> ['param=abc+%C3%A6']
> 
> Here, the '?' character is converted into what seems to be Unicode

Unlikely. U+C3A6 is a Hangul (Korean) syllable. 

> 
> I would have expected the following:
> ['param=abc+%E6']

So would I. See below. However despite the fact that the last
character in your 'value' shows up as "small ae ligature" in MSIE, we
would really like to see some code of yours that *minimally* and
*unambiguously* shows the problem, and can be executed in the minimal
Python environment (i.e. sans gui, command prompt, again: see below).


C:\junk>python
Python 2.2.3 (#42, May 30 2003, 18:12:08) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on
win32
>>> import urllib
>>> urllib.urlencode({'name':'abc \xe6'})
'name=abc+%E6'
>>> urllib.quote_plus('abc \xe6')
'abc+%E6'
>>>



From gsmatthew at ozemail.com.au  Mon Jul 14 07:35:59 2003
From: gsmatthew at ozemail.com.au (Graeme Matthew)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 21:35:59 +1000
Subject: How to give a custom object instance a type name ?
Message-ID: <DAwQa.168$O05.9536@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au>

Hi all, quick one,

I hope I am explaining this properly, I am wanting to do some introspection
on custom object instances, for example:

 import md5
>>> m = md5.new()
>>> type(m)
<type 'md5.md5'>

I can at least test here by doing something like if type(m) == 'md5.md5':


Here is a custom Dispatcher class that I have written

>>> from BI.System.Controller.Dispatcher import Dispatcher
>>> x = Dispatcher()
>>> type(x)
<type 'instance'>

How do I get the same as with instance 'm' above where the type displays the
actual object instance name, however my
custom dispatcher instance is just a generic 'instance', is there some
builtin where this is set ?

many thanks

Graeme









From http  Sun Jul 27 20:40:33 2003
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 27 Jul 2003 17:40:33 -0700
Subject: floating point range generator
References: <Xns93B0F0F1A58A2cpl19ghumspamgourmet@62.153.159.134> <oA2Oa.30893$C83.2655519@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <7xwue3lbzy.fsf_-_@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

I needed this for something I was doing just now.  It came out pretty
enough that I thought I'd post it.  It's like xrange, except for floating
point values.

    def frange(start, stop, step=1.0):
        sign = cmp(0, step)
        while cmp(start, stop) == sign:
            yield start
            start += step


>>> for i in frange(3., 4., 0.2): print i
... 
3.0
3.2
3.4
3.6
3.8
>>> 



From w0zhang at ouray.cudenver.edu  Wed Jul 30 17:59:59 2003
From: w0zhang at ouray.cudenver.edu (wzhang)
Date: 30 Jul 2003 14:59:59 -0700
Subject: (Eclipse/TruStudio) Re: I am so impressed
References: <ihmtfb.qhq.ln@news1.interplanet.it> <20030726215139.14696.00000526@mb-m04.aol.com>
Message-ID: <bfedf1c7.0307301359.59c205a@posting.google.com>

thedustbustr at aol.com (TheDustbustr) wrote in message news:<20030726215139.14696.00000526 at mb-m04.aol.com>...
> My only complaint is that it won't let you use control keys in the
> interpereter.  It's a problem when you put a while 1: in your mainloop and
> can't KeyboardInterrupt out of it.
> 
> Great for an editor, as long as you run your apps externally.

I downloaded both eclipse and trustudio plugin. Everything was fine
except I could not pass a commandline argument to the module. Could
anybody tell me how to configure eclipse 'run' so that I can pass a
argument.

Thanks.

wz



From intentionally at blank.co.uk  Tue Jul 15 02:49:53 2003
From: intentionally at blank.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 07:49:53 +0100
Subject: anything like C++ references?
References: <b8c3hvsesjoumiboobml3nsnajtha99mp1@4ax.com> <mailman.1058129901.28248.python-list@python.org> <plk3hv0s1m2egf4s34jo6vjedk0q8r2mu9@4ax.com> <m365m6ul5c.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <mailman.1058145500.19181.python-list@python.org> <e464hvcq48q3240ecfcs6jqhqf616q7v1a@4ax.com> <m3k7alr86s.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <poi6hvc9n1fuh95gvr9kcc1kmb4o2cablt@4ax.com> <m3znjg5qw7.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <3f67hvgi36s7rmtn59rajj2gpir8hhfiph@4ax.com>

On 15 Jul 2003 06:56:56 +0200, martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. L?wis)
wrote:

>Stephen Horne <intentionally at blank.co.uk> writes:
>
>> Write...
>> 
>>   x = classname()
>>   y = x
>> 
>> ... and that would be an error.
>[...]
>> However...
>> 
>>   x = &classname()
>>   y = x
>> 
>> ... and everything is fine.
>
>If any kind of implicit reference assignment would be an error, then I
>assume
>
>x = classname()
>x.foo()
>
>would also be an error? because that assigns a reference of the object
>to the implicit 'self' parameter of the method?

The whole point of 'self' is to act as a name for the object (not the
value) so there is no problem in having it behave that way. Its
already special because its implicit, so making it special in this way
too wouldn't be a big issue.

Implementation detail. Not a fundamental problem.

>
>> > This is completely different from the notion of
>> >values in C or C++, where each occurrence of the literal 5 creates a
>> >new value whose state is 5.
>> 
>> Not true. Each occurence of the literal 5 creates a new 'symbol' which
>> represents the value 5. The immutability of values is preserved in
>> C++.
>
>That is not true. There are no "symbols" in C beyond those that you
>use to name functions and global variables. Every occurrence of an
>integer literal *does* create a temporary object, every time the
>literal is *executed*.

I was using the word 'symbol' in the theoretical sense - the sense in
which any computer might be called a machine for manipulating symbols.
Not in the sense of an identifier.

The data stored in RAM (or registers or whatever) may be considered
just a bunch of electrical charges or currents that may or may not be
present at certain points. But that ignores the fact that these
electrical signals have meaning.

These electrical signals have meaning because they form symbols which
represent integers, or floating point numbers, or strings or whatever.
The principle is no different to symbols written on paper in order to
form words, numbers or whatever.

In C, variables bind directly to precisely that type of symbolic
representation of value.

If you write...

  int main (int argc, char *argv [])
  {
    int x = 100;
    int y = x;

    y = 200;

    return EXIT_SUCCESS;
  }

...then it is perfectly true that you wouldn't tend to think of the
patterns of bits in memory as symbols, but that is what they are. That
is why at the end of the program, the value 100 is still 100 and the
value of x is still 100. You have not manipulated values (in a highly
pedantic theoretical sense) because values are immutable and cannot be
changed. You have simply changed the symbol stored in the memory
associated with variable y to one that represents the value 200.

These days, symbols representing integers almost certainly uses a twos
complement binary notation. But that isn't the only way of
representing such values. It could have been a binary coded decimal
notation. In COBOL, it could well be an ASCII or EBCDIC string of
characters - each of those characters in turn being symbolised by a
number and so on. Even with twos complement, it may be big endian or
little endian.

An integer value can be represented by many symbolic notations, and
machines that manipulate symbolic representations (I have seen
computers defined in pretty much those words before) have used a
number of different symbolic representations for that purpose.

The symbol isn't the value - it only represents the value.

In general, of course, it is not useful to think in these extremely
pedantic terms.




From gh at ghaering.de  Thu Jul 31 19:48:03 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Fri, 01 Aug 2003 01:48:03 +0200
Subject: Python vs. Perl vs. PHP?
In-Reply-To: <7b454334.0307311023.28900d57@posting.google.com>
References: <7b454334.0307281002.41dae81b@posting.google.com>	<bg3qkk$lmr$05$1@news.t-online.com>	<FzRVa.11353$R14.4280@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk>	<7b454334.0307301611.1b40ff11@posting.google.com>
	<mailman.1059640670.9792.python-list@python.org>
	<7b454334.0307311023.28900d57@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3F29AAB3.2050209@ghaering.de>

Fazer wrote:
> Thanks for the reply!  I think I am going to give mod_python a try. 
> Would I have to be root to install mod_python? 

Either that or you need to have the privileges to compile Apache + 
mod_python and run it on a nonprivileged port (> 1024).

> Because that's one of
> my biggest concerns.  I don't have root and I don't want to work on my
> windows machine since I am kind of more comfortable working on a Linux
> platform. [...]

mod_python works on Windows as well. The harder part is finding a web 
hoster that will host mod_python apps (pythonhosting.com comes to mind). 
I personally find it much easier to learn about system administration 
and get my own dedicated server for EUR 39/month.

-- Gerhard




From iambren at sympatico.ca  Mon Jul 21 16:16:53 2003
From: iambren at sympatico.ca (Bren)
Date: 21 Jul 2003 13:16:53 -0700
Subject: Problem building extension sample with Python 2.2.3
Message-ID: <da3bb005.0307211216.22425dec@posting.google.com>

Hi, 

I'm trying to build the sample extension file from
http://www.python.org/doc/current/ext/simpleExample.html.

I get a linker error:

Linking...
spam.obj : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol
__imp__Py_InitModule4TraceRefs

Also, I find it necessary to ignore python22_d.lib and link
python22.lib explicitly when I make a Debug build.

I'm using MSVC++ 6.

Any help appreciated, thanks.



From juneaftn at REMOVETHIShanmail.net  Wed Jul  2 21:40:22 2003
From: juneaftn at REMOVETHIShanmail.net (Changjune Kim)
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 10:40:22 +0900
Subject: When is unit-testing bad? [was: Re: does lack of type...]
References: <3EEE1210.3004AB45@engcorp.com> <878ys06tcv.fsf_-_@pobox.com> <vf11j7l3f0ku52@news.supernews.com> <87of0pno5s.fsf@titan.staselog.com> <vg40uajdqo3ac4@corp.supernews.com> <bdunoh$1pms$1@biggoron.nerim.net> <pan.2003.07.02.21.14.36.896580@jerf.org>
Message-ID: <be01hs$sf5$1@news.hananet.net>

"Jeremy Bowers" <jerf at jerf.org> wrote in message
news:pan.2003.07.02.21.14.36.896580 at jerf.org...
> On Wed, 02 Jul 2003 15:21:45 +0200, Aur?lien G?ron wrote:
> > I'd be interested to know about
> > projects where they automate unit tests for GUIs, but I suspect it
would be
> > just as cumbersome.
>
> I'm doing one right now. It's designed from the ground up by me, so it's
> testable. It almost has to be, since it's fairly complicated and Needs To
> Work.
>
> For the record, I've found Tkinter does *great* with this, because you
can
> drive the GUI without ever actually starting the event loop. It doesn't
> seem perfect but largely works, much better then it has any right to.
>
> wxPython doesn't work at all without an event loop, so I never did get it
> tested, which has contributed to me dropping it. ;-) (I'm gonna guess
that
> never entered into anybody's head when they were designing toolkits...)
>
> > In all those cases, I much prefer having a human being go out and do
the
> > unit tests manually.
>
> The thing is, they won't. We've got about 50 years of collective
> experience backing that up.

UnitTesting GUI is not that difficult. UnitTesting multi-threaded programs
is not that difficult. UnitTesting database programs is not that difficult.
I have experiences in all of them, of which the degree and depth might
vary.

For example, I follow a sequence(as in Christopher Alexander's style) for
TDDable GUI program:


Principles:
 1. Test everything that is in P and M. Don't test V.
 2. There is no GUI framework API call in P and M.
 3. In V, there are stuffs that you can have enough confidence even without
testing.
 4. No duplication.
 5. Keep the cycle.

Sequence:
 1. Start from one chunk. Think about what should be shown from the
abstract level, what concepts(M) should be there. Don't use GUI API calls.
 2. You can take M and P apart. How it should be shown goes into P. What
goes into M.
 3. P uses the interfaces of V. Firstly, test P with mock-V. Put into V
only those that can be considered as "need not tests, really sure" in GUI
aspects.
 4. As mock-V getting its form, implement real-V along with it.
 5. If there is anything you feel not confident pass it over to P.

These are what I get after years of experience in TDDing GUI programs.

see also(all highly recommended):
 * http://martinfowler.com/articles/separation.pdf
 * http://www.objectmentor.com/resources/articles/TheHumbleDialogBox.pdf
 * http://www.sdmagazine.com/documents/sdm0206b/
 *
http://www.object-arts.com/EducationCentre/Overviews/ModelViewPresenter.htm

Best wishes,

June




From mertz at gnosis.cx  Sat Jul 12 02:25:50 2003
From: mertz at gnosis.cx (Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters)
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 02:25:50 -0400
Subject: The "intellectual property" misnomer
References: <mailman.1057978117.8939.python-list@python.org>
 <slrnbgv1c7.q1.bignose-hates-spam@rose.localdomain.fake>
Message-ID: <un6D/kKkXYzb092yn@gnosis.cx>         

Ben Finney <bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au> wrote previously:
|The term he used doesn't explain anything, and only confuses.  It would
|have been *less* confusing to say "The PSF holds something unspecified
|for Python".  At least there is no pretence of explanation there.

This is flatly disingenuous.

There is not one reader of c.l.py in a hundred who does not know that IP
consists of copyrights, trademarks, patents, and--to an extent--trade
secrets.  Yes, those things are different from each other, but that's
what the category includes.

There is no more ambiguity in the phrase "intellectual property" than
there is in the phrase "African countries" or "scripting languages".
Both of those latter phrases include a number of things that differ
significantly between each other; and both even have some borderline
cases.  But I'm not going to stop using any of the terms, nor should
Guido.

Just because you think (correctly) that IP is *bad*, it doesn't mean the
term doesn't denote.

...

Then some more bluster and whatnot:  PSF has copyrights; hopefully
Python is not patent-restricted, but who knows; it's hard for an open
source project to have any trade secrets; I don't think the name
"Python" is trademarked, but were it to be, the PSF should hold the
trademark.  Duh!

Yours, Lulu...

--
    _/_/_/ THIS MESSAGE WAS BROUGHT TO YOU BY: Postmodern Enterprises _/_/_/
   _/_/    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~[mertz at gnosis.cx]~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~  _/_/
  _/_/  The opinions expressed here must be those of my employer...   _/_/
 _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ Surely you don't think that *I* believe them!  _/_/





From skip at pobox.com  Fri Jul 25 12:46:54 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 11:46:54 -0500
Subject: path module
In-Reply-To: <20030725163757.N6906@prim.han.de>
References: <1057651068.5348.386.camel@lothlorien>
        <20030708113219.H6906@prim.han.de>
        <mailman.1057686613.6463.python-list@python.org>
        <11234c14.0307211016.344d40bc@posting.google.com>
        <20030725163757.N6906@prim.han.de>
Message-ID: <16161.24318.327345.674356@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    holger> IMO you'll almost never use the following string-methods on a
    holger> 'Path' object:

    holger>     capitalize center count decode encode
    holger>     expandtabs find index isalnum isalpha isdigit
    holger>     islower isspace istitle isupper 
    holger>     ljust lstrip rjust splitlines startswith
    holger>     swapcase title translate zfill

In practice, I rarely use the above methods on string objects.  The only
exception is startswith. ;-)

Skip




From fumingw at tom.com  Thu Jul 17 08:28:49 2003
From: fumingw at tom.com (Fuming Wang)
Date: 17 Jul 2003 05:28:49 -0700
Subject: Accessing and updating global variables among several modules
References: <a12f6af8.0307111938.4d7a9851@posting.google.com> <bepqje$8cm$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <a12f6af8.0307170428.5648ffcc@posting.google.com>

bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) wrote in message news:<bepqje$8cm$0 at 216.39.172.122>...
> On 11 Jul 2003 20:38:48 -0700, fumingw at tom.com (Fuming Wang) wrote:
> 
> >Hi,
> >
> >I have several modules that need to access global variables among
> >them.  I can do that by import modules:
> >
> >module A:
> >gA = 'old'
> >
> >module B:
> >import A
> >print A.gA
> >>>> 'old'
> >
> >change gA in module A after some initialization:
> >def init_fuct():
>   global gA   # w/o this line, gA is just a local variable, and init_fuct() is well named ;-)
> >    gA = 'new'
> >
> (I assume the above function was in module A, and either invoked from there or as A.init_fuct()
> from somwhere else).
> 
> >no change in module B:
> >print A.gA
> >>>> 'old'
>  With the code above, there was no change in A either ;-)
> >
> >However, when I modify these global variables in one module, the other
> >modules would not see the changes.  Any one has any suggestions? ( I
> >don't want to use from A import *)
> >
> Just make sure you actually change A.gA and you should be able to see the change from B as A.gA.
> Unless I am missing something.
> 
> Regards,
> Bengt Richter


Hi,

Thanks for the replies.  I have actually found a solution to the
problem. The problem is caused by Python creating two copies of the
module that is passed to the interpreter. Here is a short report of
what the problem is and how to avoid it.  Hope this can be of help for
others.

Fuming

P.S. I am running Python 2.3 b2 on Windows2000

********************************************

It started out as a simple desire to have communications between two
modules that import each other (circular imports).  It turns out to be
quite a gotcha,which I thick could catch many experience Python user
by surprise.  You can now avoid this pitfall and gain some insights in
how module imports are handles.
So here it goes.


------ File A.py ----------

    import B

    a = object()

    def printa():
        print 'a from A:', a

    def printb():
        print 'b from A:', B.b 

    if __name__ == '__main__':
        printa()
        printb()
        B.printa()
        B.printb()


------ File B.py ----------


    import A

    b = object()

    def printa():
        print 'a from B:', A.a

    def printb():
        print 'b from B:', b


Run it from Python interpretor
>python A.py

    a from A: <object object at 0x007DD3C8>
    b from A: <object object at 0x007DD3C0>
    a from B: <object object at 0x007DD3B8>
    b from B: <object object at 0x007DD3C0>


If you look at the addresses of the printed objects carefully, you
will find that the same object b in module B can be seen by both
modules (0x..3C0), while object a seems to be totally different
objects seeing from module A and B (0x..3C8, 0x..3B8).

Why are module A and B are seeing different objects from the same
object a? We will find out after the following experiment.  Let's add
the following two lines to file A.py and B.py seperately:

    print 'init module A:', a, __name__

    print 'init module B:', b, __name__

This line will tell us when each module is
created/initialized/loaded/imported. Let's run the script once again.
We will have the following results.

    init module A: <object object at 0x007DD3B8> A
    init module B: <object object at 0x007DD3C0> B
    init module A: <object object at 0x007DD3C8> __main__
    a from A: <object object at 0x007DD3C8>
    b from A: <object object at 0x007DD3C0>
    a from B: <object object at 0x007DD3B8>
    b from B: <object object at 0x007DD3C0>

Haaa!  There are two copies on module A.  One is called 'A', the other
is
called '__main__'.  Functions in module A is seeing module __main__.a
(0x..3C8),while functions in module B is seeing module A.a (0x..3B8). 
No wonder they are seeing two different object.  Knowing the cause of
this problem, we can devise many solutions. Some are more proper than
others.

Let's discuss the proper one first.  The only reason module A is
created twice is because it is invoked by the interpreter. We only
need to write another short module C as following, and the problem is
solved.


--------- file C.py ----------------

    import A
    import B

    if __name__ == '__main__':
        A.printa()
        A.printb()
        B.printa()
        B.printb()


Improper solutions including:

change in A.py

    if __name__ == '__main__': ----> if __name__ == 'A':

or change in B.py

    import A  ---->  import sys; import sys.modules['__main__']



From johnroth at ameritech.net  Tue Jul  1 17:17:01 2003
From: johnroth at ameritech.net (John Roth)
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 17:17:01 -0400
Subject: Suggesting for overloading the assign operator
References: <6f03c4a5.0306301931.3f15fbb7@posting.google.com> <vg3eghr5kj1sd8@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <vg3uge6ctq9k57@news.supernews.com>

"John Roth" <johnroth at ameritech.net> wrote in message
news:vg3eghr5kj1sd8 at news.supernews.com...
>
> "Rim" <rimbalaya at yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:6f03c4a5.0306301931.3f15fbb7 at posting.google.com...
> > Hi,
> >
> > I have been thinking about how to overload the assign operation '='.
> > In many cases, I wanted to provide users of my packages a natural
> > interface to the extended built-in types I created for them, but the
> > assign operator is always forcing them to "type cast" or coerce the
> > result when they do a simple assign for the purpose of setting the
> > value of a variable.
>
> Use a property. Changing the semantics of the assignment
> statement (NOT assignment operator) is not going to happen.
>
> Properties are new in Python 2.2 (which is around a year
> old by now.) They enable you to have getter and setter
> methods with an interface that looks like an instance
> variable.
>
> John Roth

I usually don't reply to my own posts, but I thought it
might be nice if I put up a skeletal example of how to do it.

I'm assuming that what you want is a way of insuring, in a
class named Foo, that the variable fooBar is always bound
to a class instance of Bar, regardless of what the user tries
to assign to it.

Most of what follows is documented in "What's New in Python 2.2,"
section 2: Peps 252 and 253: Type and Class Changes.

The information on the __new__ method is in the document
under 2.5: Related Links.

The way to do this is:

1. Both Foo and Bar have to inherit from a built-in type.
That's usually "object", but it can be any built-in type.

2. Refactor Foo so that all references to self.fooBar
now refer to self._fooBar. (It can be any name; the
underscore is a convention that means "private."

3. Insert the following code in Foo:

def _getFooBar(self):
    return self._fooBar

def _setFooBar(self, parm):
    self._fooBar = Bar(parm)

_fooBar = property(_setFooBar, _getFoobar, None, "doc strings swing")

4. In class Bar, use the __new__ method to check if
the parameter is an instance of class Bar. If it is, return that
instance, otherwise call your superclass's __new__ method
to create a  new object and return it.

5. In class Bar, do whatever type determination you need to
in the __init__ method to build your new Bar object.

Most of this is documented in "What's New in Python 2.2,"
section 2: Peps 252 and 253: Type and Class Changes.

The information on the __new__ method is in the document
under 2.5: Related Links.

HTH

John Roth

>
>





From tgerla at outsourcefinancial.com  Wed Jul 16 13:54:20 2003
From: tgerla at outsourcefinancial.com (Tim Gerla)
Date: 16 Jul 2003 10:54:20 -0700
Subject: Replacing rexec
Message-ID: <1058378060.5034.13.camel@redwall.ofsloans.com>

(I apologize if I've dug up a long-dead horse, but I haven't found any
posts in the archive on this that really explain what I'm asking.)

We are looking to use plpython in PostgreSQL, but it's being downgraded
to "untrusted" and/or being completely removed because Python's rexec
went away. Why did rexec go away, specifically? I know it had security
issues, but couldn't these have been fixed? Did the module just have too
many integral flaws in the design to be worth saving?

Is anyone working on a replacement? If not, why not? Even if plpython
isn't very widely used, I think it's still important for advocacy. I'd
much rather write Python than PL.

Anyway, I'm looking for a summary of specific reasons why rexec went
away without a replacement. I understand completely that it had flaws
and was insecure; I'm only confused as to why these flaws were
insurmountable.

Given a bit more assurance that a replacement would be useful and
possible, we potentially have the resources to do so. Having a working
and trusted plpython is valuable to both my own organization and, IMHO,
the Python world itself.

Thanks,

Tim Gerla
--
Outsource Financial Services, LLC.
tgerla at outsourcefinancial.com




From klappnase at freenet.de  Mon Jul 28 10:14:44 2003
From: klappnase at freenet.de (klappnase)
Date: 28 Jul 2003 07:14:44 -0700
Subject: How to stop screensaver from starting up
Message-ID: <9a410299.0307280614.444cc2b2@posting.google.com>

Hello everyone,

does anyone know a way to stop the screensaver under linux from
starting up while a certain process is running?
I need this because I experience a memory leak while recording
wav-files every time the screensaver starts.
It is a Tkinter application, btw.
Any help would be very appreciated.

Thanks

Michael



From ebolonev at rol.ru  Fri Jul  4 02:20:02 2003
From: ebolonev at rol.ru (Egor Bolonev)
Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 17:20:02 +1100
Subject: File information??
References: <OI8Na.58613$TJ.2869886@twister.austin.rr.com>
Message-ID: <be36cf$j23$1@news.rol.ru>

Hello, Stan!
You wrote  on Fri, 04 Jul 2003 05:59:10 GMT:

 SC> Is there a way to get the file size and modified date of a file?

os.stat()

=========Beginning of the citation============== 
import os,glob

a=glob.glob('c:\\*')[0]
print os.stat(a)[6],os.stat(a)[8]

=========The end of the citation================ 

With best regards, Egor Bolonev.  E-mail: ebolonev at rol.ru [ru eo en]




From bgailer at alum.rpi.edu  Tue Jul  1 15:47:57 2003
From: bgailer at alum.rpi.edu (Bob Gailer)
Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 13:47:57 -0600
Subject: (Numeric) should -7 % 5 = -2 ?
In-Reply-To: <010720031119590501%pecora@anvil.nrl.navy.mil>
References: <87k7b6cf3d.fsf_-_@schedar.com>
 <mailman.1056836805.17229.python-list@python.org>
 <290620030817191641%pecora@anvil.nrl.navy.mil>
 <3g32gvcolis4485956egtc35akm6lh3uq5@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20030701134327.01a49fc0@66.28.54.253>

At 11:19 AM 7/1/2003 -0400, Louis M. Pecora wrote:

>In article <3g32gvcolis4485956egtc35akm6lh3uq5 at 4ax.com>, Tim Roberts
><timr at probo.com> wrote:
>
> > >Hmmm...  "remainder" makes sense.  But "%" is mod, right.  IIRC from my
> > >abstract algebra days (only 30 yrs ago :-) ) The "X mod n" function
> > >maps onto the postive integers from 0 to n-1.  So sounds like numeric
> > >contradicts the math texts.  Not good since it's a math module.
> >
> > That's a bit harsh.
>
>You may be right.  I got to work and checked my old Abstract Algebra
>book.  The defintion is,
>
>We write  a=b mod m if m divides (a-b) (i.e. no remeinder).
>
>The defintion does not say how to compute the mod, rather it is an
>expression of a relationship between a and b.  Hence, writing -2=-7 mod
>5 appears to be OK.
>[snip]

To quote from "Number Theory and its History" by Oystein Ore, page 213f:
"When an integer a is divided by another m, one has
         a = km + r
where the remainder is some positive integer less than m. Thus for any 
number a there exists a congruence
         a (is congruent to) r (mod m)
where r is a unique one among the numbers 0, 2, 1, .... m-1"

Bob Gailer
bgailer at alum.rpi.edu
303 442 2625
-------------- next part --------------

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Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
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From baas at ira.uka.de  Fri Jul 18 14:12:55 2003
From: baas at ira.uka.de (Matthias Baas)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 20:12:55 +0200
Subject: installing python library modules (general question)
References: <79ad5955.0307122013.6780fc53@posting.google.com> <mailman.1058113998.31950.python-list@python.org> <79ad5955.0307131400.696226ce@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <vidghvkbc6tsrbqin8oqdcn9b7ah1g0b8e@4ax.com>

On 13 Jul 2003 15:34:36 -0700, juliagoolia301 at hotmail.com (Julia
Goolia) wrote:
>you so much.  just so i know... adding something to /etc/ld/so/conf is
>different than setting LD_LIBRARY_PATH?  

The result should actually be the same. Maybe there was a typo when
you set the path in LD_LIBRARY_PATH, this can easily happen (see
above, the config file is actually /etc/ld.so.conf.... ;-)

By the way, if you want to know how loading libraries works, have a
look at this HOWTO (section 3):

http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/Linux/docs/HOWTO/other-formats/html_single/Program-Library-HOWTO.html

(this and more documentation can be found at "The Linux Documentation
Project": http://www.tldp.org/)

>what do you do if you don't ave root access?

Then you actually do use LD_LIBRARY_PATH. 

- Matthias -




From cben at techunix.technion.ac.il  Sun Jul 20 05:20:54 2003
From: cben at techunix.technion.ac.il (Beni Cherniavsky)
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 12:20:54 +0300 (IDT)
Subject: properties + types, implementing meta-class desciptors elegantly?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1058654317.6488.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1058532630.7342.python-list@python.org>
 <bfa97g$s5j$0@216.39.172.122> <2259b0e2.0307190640.56266017@posting.google.com>
 <mailman.1058629890.30475.python-list@python.org> <bfc82v$hm8$0@216.39.172.122>
 <mailman.1058654317.6488.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.51.0307201212360.9747@techunix.technion.ac.il>

Mike C. Fletcher wrote on 2003-07-19:

>     * finally, stores the value
>           o tries to do what would have been done if there were no
>             descriptor (with the new, coerced value)
>           o does *not* create new names in the object's namespace (all
>             names are documented w/ descriptors, there's not a lot of
>             '_' prefixed names cluttering the namespace)
>           o does *not* require a new dictionary/storage-object attribute
>             for the object (the descriptor works like any other
>             descriptor, a *stand-alone* object that replaces a regular
>             attribute)
>
> It's that last part that I'd like to have a function/method to
> accomplish.  That is, store (and obviously retrieve as well) attribute
> values for objects, instances, types, classes, __slot__'d instances,
> etceteras under a given name without triggering any of the __setattr__
> machinery which defers to the __set__ method of the associated descriptor.
>
> I can work around the problem by violating either of those two bullet
> points under "finally, stores the value", but I'm looking for something
> that *doesn't* violate them.  See below for responses to particular
> points...
>
I didn't grasp your precise problem but I've been having some similar
problems (without metaclasses however).  Two tricks:

- Insert a dummy class into you heirarchy between object (or whatever
  other superclass that doesn't have the properties yet and the class
  where you install the properties.  Then you might be able to use
  this class to access the underliying class dict without being
  intercepted by the properties.  [I recall some problems with
  properties vs. super, didn't follow them closely].

- If you use __slots__, they are also implemented as properties.  So
  if you define properties with the same name in the same class, you
  lose all access to the raw slots.  The solution is similar: define
  __slots__ in a superclass, hide them with properties in a sublass.
  See http://www.technion.ac.il/~cben/python/streams.py for an
  example.

HTH,
Beni Cherniavsky <cben at tx.technion.ac.il>




From tim.one at comcast.net  Wed Jul  2 11:02:17 2003
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 11:02:17 -0400
Subject: A possible bug in python threading/time module?
In-Reply-To: <c09aca51.0307020039.5f2f4495@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <BIEJKCLHCIOIHAGOKOLHKEIKGCAA.tim.one@comcast.net>

[vm_usenet]
> I've been running this segment of code (slightly simplified to
> emphasize the main part):
>
> ----START of Script----
>
> import time
> import threading
>
> sem = threading.Semaphore(2048)
>
> class MyThread(threading.Thread):
>     def __init__(self):
>         threading.Thread.__init__(self)
>         sem.acquire()
>
>     def run(self):
>         j = 0
>         for i in range(1000):
>             j = j+1
>         time.sleep(60)
>         sem.release()
>
> #main
> for i in range(4096):
>     MyThread().start()
>
> ----END of Script----
>
> I ran it on python 2.2.2 and python 2.3b1, and on both all of the
> threads started successfully, acquiring the semaphore until 0
> resources were left. However, about 10-20 threads remain active after
> a while (and the semaphore is lacking resources, respectively). I
> waited for about two hours, and nothing changed - it appears to be
> hanging. Did anyone encounter this behaviour before?
> Am I the only one who ran into this situation? Is this a bug?

If you run "enough" threads, chances are high you'll eventually run into a
platform thread bug on any platform -- but into different platform bugs on
different platforms.  You didn't say which OS or platform thread library you
were using, and those are probably the only things that matter.

Here's a simplified and generalized minor rewrite of the above, with a
comment about what happens under Win2K and 2.3b2.  I've got no interest in
chasing it down, since it's hung in the bowels of a Windows DLL and there's
no evidence of a Python bug:

"""
import time
import threading

# One thread hung at the end on Win2K at N == 2011.
# No problem if N < 2011.
N = 2011
sem = threading.Semaphore(N)

class MyThread(threading.Thread):
    def __init__(self):
        threading.Thread.__init__(self)
        sem.acquire()

    def run(self):
        time.sleep(5)
        sem.release()

for i in range(2*N):
    MyThread().start()
"""





From mwilson at the-wire.com  Wed Jul 23 13:45:16 2003
From: mwilson at the-wire.com (Mel Wilson)
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 13:45:16 -0400
Subject: The global statement
References: <pan.2003.07.23.08.06.17.301516@intnet.mu>
 <bfm7m8$g9shl$1@ID-63505.news.uni-berlin.de>
 <pan.2003.07.23.15.14.52.430267@intnet.mu>
Message-ID: <smsH/ks/KvXX089yn@the-wire.com>

In article <pan.2003.07.23.15.14.52.430267 at intnet.mu>,
"David Hitillambeau" <edavid at intnet.mu> wrote:
>On Wed, 23 Jul 2003 16:56:08 +0200, Thomas G?ttler wrote:
>
>> If foo and bar are in the same file,
>> you don't need the "global".
>
>Then when is "global" required? What is it's role?

   More to the point, maybe (although it doesn't do much):


global_var = 27

def f1():
    global global_var
    if global_var % 2 == 1:
        global_var = 3 * global_var + 1

def f2():
    global global_var
    while global_var % 2 == 0:
        global_var /= 2

def f3():
    return (global_var != 1)

while f3():
    print global_var,
    f1()
    print global_var,
    f2()
    print global_var


where f1 and f2 will behave very differently if the `global`
statements are removed.  Normally, any time code inside a
function assigns to a symbol, it does it in the functions
local namespace.  In these cases, there'll be a compiler
error.

   Because f3 doesn't assign to global_var, it doesn't need
the `global` statement.  That is, the *only* global_var that
f3 could possibly access is the "global" one.
   You could include a global statement for documentation's
sake if that were your taste.

   And of course global_var is local as far as the `print`
statements are concerned.


        Regards.        Mel.



From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Mon Jul 14 22:31:58 2003
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 21:31:58 -0500
Subject: Open MS Excel Spreadsheet with Python
In-Reply-To: <slrnbh6n36.4kb.sybrenUSE@sybren.thirdtower.com> (Sybren
 Stuvel's message of "15 Jul 2003 01:44:06 GMT")
References: <mailman.1058229111.12248.python-list@python.org>
	<slrnbh6n36.4kb.sybrenUSE@sybren.thirdtower.com>
Message-ID: <m2el0sfrkx.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

>>>>> "Sybren" == Sybren Stuvel <sybrenUSE at YOURthirdtower.imagination.com> writes:

    >> I think I'm missing something fairly fundamental, but I've
    >> googled all over the place and can't seem to find anything very
    >> introductory about opening and using data from MS Excel using
    >> Python.

Probably are.  Do you use http://groups.google.com to search the
archives of this mailing list?  If you go there, and search for

  excel group:*python*

you'll likely find everything you need to know.  

In a nutshell, using the win32 extensions you can access excel
directly.  On other platforms, you'll probably need to go with an
xl->csv converter, and then either parse the csv yourself or use the
excellent csv module (http://object-craft.com.au/projects/csv); note
that a csv module will be standard with the python library as of
python 2.3.  If you decide to go this route, let me know: I do a lot
of XL->CSV work in python and have a few utility functions that may
come in handy.

JDH




From richardc at hmgcc.gov.uk  Wed Jul 16 10:53:55 2003
From: richardc at hmgcc.gov.uk (richardc)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 15:53:55 +0100
Subject: Python Quiz
References: <mailman.1058359706.27031.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3f156704$1@mail.hmgcc.gov.uk>

Sorry, I didnt mean to suggest for a second that Python's use of indentation
(ws), is a problem or in any way a labour of love like FORTRAN's.



"Michael Chermside" <mcherm at mcherm.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.1058359706.27031.python-list at python.org...
SNIP
> Definitely NOT. Without addressing the question of HOW Python came by the
> idea of using indentation to indicate block structure, it clearly couldn't
> have been from Fortran, because what Python does and what Fortran does
> are COMPLETELY different.

Very true, but to say that FORTRAN and Python have nothing in common would
also be untrue.  They both use ws to delimit syntatic elements, not the same
elements but use it in a very different way to most other languages.

I admit that Python probley gained no insiration from FORTRAN and any
'similarities' are coincidental.

> There's also the fact that "lines" (statements) are defined by line breaks
> in Python -- but I rarely hear complaints about this, since most
programmers
> mentally chunk up code into "lines" anyway.

No complaints there

> Of course, I'm not suggesting that whitespace is *meaningless* in Python
> outside of indentation...

should hope not

Please dont misinterprit my post as an attack on Python, whilst Im a old-hat
C++ programmer and first time I looked at Pythno I thought... urggh, no
brackets thats horrid.  After a bit better look, I love it.  Like everything
it has its place.

Sorry if I upset anyone... I know FORTRAN's bad, but its not that bad...
erm, actually mabe it is ?

As for OCCAM, I havent programmed in that for years, that was fun *lost in
fond memories*

Rich






From max at alcyone.com  Thu Jul  3 20:22:39 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 17:22:39 -0700
Subject: Why so many references to global variables?
References: <aD%Ma.5942$bD1.693184@news20.bellglobal.com> <yfs1xx7i88o.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk> <0S2Na.6305$bD1.721957@news20.bellglobal.com>
Message-ID: <3F04C8CF.DE38E6D0@alcyone.com>

J-P wrote:

> Well, sys.getrefcount() does tell me there are 3 millions  references
> to it and other globals. Even though this doesn't eat up all my memory
> (how large is a reference object in Python?), ...

Reference counts are just maintained internally with a single number
that's incremented or decremented.

> I definitely think
> there's
> something fishy with keeping that many references to global variables
> that appear here and there in the script.

Yes, it does.  It strongly suggests that the fishiness is in your C
extension.

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ Now I must follow them!
\__/  Beowulf, King of the Geats



From yaipa at yahoo.com  Sat Jul 26 22:26:24 2003
From: yaipa at yahoo.com (yaipa h.)
Date: 26 Jul 2003 19:26:24 -0700
Subject: Web tool kit : pro - cons ?
References: <3f23003f$0$266$ba620e4c@reader0.news.skynet.be>
Message-ID: <6e07b825.0307261826.5c83c47a@posting.google.com>

Vincent,

You don't list Webware oddly enough. I have been using it with the 
Cheetah templating engine. Works fine, with good support.

Python 9 White Paper on Webware
--------------------------------
http://www.python9.org/p9-cdrom/index.htm

Cheetah dev page
----------------
http://www.cheetahtemplate.org/

Cheers,

   --Alan


vincent_delft <vincent_delft at yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<3f23003f$0$266$ba620e4c at reader0.news.skynet.be>...
> I'm looking for a Web Tool kit to build web pages with the following
> criteria (in priority order) :
> - easy to use, develop (reuseability of code, ...)
> - flexible (ideally should run with Python CGIHTTPServer and/or with Apache
> (with or wihout mod_python)
> - possibility to have load balancing and/or caching (for very high loaded
> web pages) 
> 
> I've founded lot of tools ... 
> 
> I've read the doc of most  of them, I've tested some of them.  
> But, is there anyone "experienced user" who can give the pro-cons for each
> of those solutions ? (or propose an another)
> 
> Is there a site who list the main charateristics of each of those Web tool
> kit ?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> 
> Zope (www.zope.org),
> SkunkWeb (http://skunkweb.sourceforge.net/),
> Quixote (http://www.mems-exchange.org/software/quixote/),
> Twisted (http://www.twistedmatrix.com/)
> Albatross (http://www.object-craft.com.au/projects/albatross/)
> Cherrypy (...)
> pwo (...)
> ...



From glenfant at NOSPAM.bigfoot.com  Tue Jul  1 08:00:38 2003
From: glenfant at NOSPAM.bigfoot.com (Gilles Lenfant)
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 14:00:38 +0200
Subject: PyQT and Mandrake 9.1
Message-ID: <bdrsbq$2a8d$1@biggoron.nerim.net>

Hi,

I've been very excited by PyQT evangelists. But I'm stuck installing this
(SIP + PyQT) on my new Mandrake 9.1. (Python 2.2.2)
I downloaded SIP + PyQT from their latest address...

http://www.riverbankcomputing.co.uk/

Then the SIP builder (build.py) asks for the path to QT header files. I
didn't find them in the classical /usr/include, nor "locate" did find
anything like "qt*.h" and there is no qt-develxx.rpm "like" in the 3
Mandrake CDs.

Did I miss something ?

Thanks in advance.

--Gilles




From Andreas.Ames at tenovis.com  Tue Jul 22 07:10:21 2003
From: Andreas.Ames at tenovis.com (Ames Andreas (MPA/DF))
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 13:10:21 +0200
Subject: weakref and thread safety (in python 2.1)
Message-ID: <788E231C269961418F38D3E360D1652526C9CB@tndefr-ws00021.tenovis.corp.lan>

Hi all,

I'm using python 2.1 and can't easily upgrade (Zope).  I'm using the 
Queue module to synchronize/communicate between two threads and
weakref.proxy objects to avoid cycles.  Scenario:

thread1:

- is the sole consumer (non-blocking get)
- holds the reference to the queue

thread2:

- is the sole producer (blocking put)
- holds a weak reference to the queue

I've noted that, when thread2 incidentally blocks on the queue
(because it's full), while thread1 deletes the queue, the weak
reference isn't deleted and thread2 keeps blocking forever.

I came up with the following destruction scheme for the queue (within
thread1; q is the 'strong' ref to the queue), which *seems* to solve
my problem (as of some preliminary tests):

qw = weakref.proxy(q)   # a second weak reference (this time within
                        # thread1) 
del q
try:
        qw.get_nowait() # if thread2 blocks on the (weakrefed) queue,
                        # qw still exists here;  the get_nowait() call
                        # wakes thread2 up.  I *hope* that its
                        # weakreference will be destroyed when it can
                        # block again in its next call to put()
                        # (leading to a weakref.ReferenceError)
except:
        pass

Is this thread-safe?  I don't know enough about the implementation of
the weakref module to decide if it is guaranteed that thread2's weak
reference to the queue will be destroied *before* thread2 can call
'put()' (or rather before thread2 can block) for the next time.  Can
someone more knowledgeable help me out please?


TIA,

andreas




From gh at ghaering.de  Wed Jul  9 09:00:33 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 15:00:33 +0200
Subject: format discs.
In-Reply-To: <pan.2003.07.09.12.19.17.544904@net.hr>
References: <pan.2003.07.09.08.22.10.853337.9435@hotmail.com>
	<pan.2003.07.09.12.19.17.544904@net.hr>
Message-ID: <3F0C11F1.4000405@ghaering.de>

Taka wrote:
> On Wed, 09 Jul 2003 06:26:38 +0000, Flanagan wrote:
>>hello to all 
>>
>>somebody can say to me whereupon I modulate of python I can format 
>>discs. 
>>
>>
>>thanks flanagan
> 
> Let's presume you want to format a unix partition and that it is
> /dev/hda1.
> The do this:
> 
> #!/bin/python
> 
> import os
> partition = open ('/dev/hda1', 'w')
> 
> for x in range(os.path.getsize('/dev/hda1'):
> 	partition.write ('0')
> 
> partition.close()
> 
> 
> :)

Didn't you mean ;-) instead of :) ?

Your approach is hard to beat in inefficiency.

-- Gerhard




From max at alcyone.com  Mon Jul 21 20:08:16 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 17:08:16 -0700
Subject: Automatically filling in answers to interactive shell command 
 questions
References: <d365ef4b.0307211423.27ba6d86@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3F1C8070.787A7293@alcyone.com>

Ted Weatherly wrote:

> Is it possible to use python to automatically fill in the answers to
> interactive shell command questions?  For example, I am using a shell
> command addperson that behaves as follows:
> 
>   > addperson
>   First Name: Ted
>   Birthday: 12/08/1977
>   Height: 6'0"
>   Location: San Francisco, CA
>   >
> 
> I am prompted for "First Name: " and I enter "Ted".  I am prompted for
> "Birthday: " and I enter "12/08/1977".  Imagine doing this for 100
> people or more...it gets tiresome.
> 
> Assuming I can't change the addperson command to read data from a
> file, is there any way to use python to fill in the data for the
> expected questions?  Perhaps a different language would be better?

expect was designed for this.  If the addperson program doesn't require
an interactive shell, you can get away with it with something as simple
as:

addperson <<EOF
Ted
12/08/1977
6'0"
San Francisco, CA
EOF

Or by putting these one per line in a file,

addperson < people.data

One certainly _could_ use Python for this, but in this case there are
probably better (and much simpler) tools for the job.

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ Behind an able man there are always other able men.
\__/  (a Chinese proverb)



From dkuhlman at rexx.com  Tue Jul 29 13:38:10 2003
From: dkuhlman at rexx.com (Dave Kuhlman)
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 10:38:10 -0700
Subject: Portability of Python (VS.Net, Java etc.)
References: <mailman.1058934395.4215.python-list@python.org> <bflf99$aqd$1@slb9.atl.mindspring.net> <mailman.1058989177.1549.python-list@python.org> <bfo14i$ibh$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net> <221d8dbe.0307272345.63503afd@posting.google.com> <bg309p$p2b$1@news.hccnet.nl> <221d8dbe.0307290635.fea912d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bg6bdf$kuf38$1@ID-139865.news.uni-berlin.de>

srijit at yahoo.com wrote:

[snip]
> I was just wondering that if Python has to be compatible to MS.NET
> does it mean
> that
> 
> 1) Python should be re-written C# like Jython has been written in
> Java ?
> 
> But my bigger concern is about the term "Portability". More than
> OS, it looks like frameworks/VMs (.NET and Java ) are getting more
> dominant today.
> 
> So for middleware like Python (though Python script runs on its
> own VM) should be compatible with both the frameworks in order to
> remain practically portable.
> 

Of the two frameworks mentioned (MS .Net and Java) we already have
Python in Java.  So, before doing Python in/on MS .Net it would be
worthwhile to ask whether Python in Java (Jython) has succeeded.
In order to answer that, we need to specify what we mean by success.

My belief is that Jython has succeeded in producing usable code.

But, is it used?  And, does it result in Python being more popular?

Are there projects and project groups out there that had a
requirement to work with Java but chose to do their work in Jython
rather than Java.  And, of those that did so, were these projects
successful.  Was using Jython a net gain over using Java itself?
Or, eventually, did they re-write all the Python code in Java? Or,
did they wish they had?  Or, did they leave behind code that was a
burden to Java developers that came after them?  Or, ...

I'd choose Python.  But, I'm a Python zealot.

Ask yourself this question:  Would a consultant or contractor who
had no ideological commitment to Python (which I do) choose to work
in Jython over Java, and why?

And, if you cannot come up with positive answers to the above
questions (positive for Python/Jython), then why should anyone do
Python in MS .Net?

One additional consideration is that a consultant/contractor can
bill more hours if Java is used than they can if Python/Jython is
used, because development in Java is slower than development in
Python.  So, why would the consultant/contractor choose Python over
Java?

I'd like to hear that Jython has been enormously successful at
making in-roads into the Java world, but I'm skeptical.

Oh, and on comp.lang.perl, do you think they worry that Perl will
die if it does not play well in the Java and in the MS .Net worlds?

  - Dave

-- 
Dave Kuhlman
http://www.rexx.com/~dkuhlman
dkuhlman at rexx.com



From alanmk at hotmail.com  Thu Jul 17 10:48:37 2003
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 15:48:37 +0100
Subject: list() coercion
References: <mailman.1058400718.22076.python-list@python.org>
		 <bf51v6$bc5v1$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de> <mailman.1058414221.483.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3F16B745.9CF3EF54@hotmail.com>

Ian Bicking wrote:

>>> However, list() seems to call the object's
>>> __len__,
>>>
>>> Is there a way I can keep this from happening?

Greg Ewing:

>> Give your object an __iter__ method that returns
>> itself.

Ian Bicking wrote:

> I'm not clear on how that will help...?
> 
> It already does have an __iter__ method, but it returns a separate
> iterator.

Just to be explicitly clear

1. You're retrieving record sets from a database.
2. You want to build a list from the database results, one list entry
for each result row.
3. You don't want to have the list preallocated (thus requiring
invocation of __len__()), because the time saving is not worth it
(compared to the cost of the SQL count() operation), since you're
going to be iterating over the record set anyway.

Therefore, use an iterator to build up the list. This will not call
__len__(). Instead, the list will continually be appended to, until
the iterator raise StopIteration. The list may be re-allocated
multiple times, as the number of records retrieved exceeds the
allocation unit size of lists. But this will likely still be lower
cost than your SQL count().

The object returned from the __iter__() method should have a .next()
method which returns the next row in your result set. So if you have
implemented a .next() on your result set object, define your
__.iter__() method as follows

class ResultSet:

    def next(self):
        "Pseudocode"
        result = databasecursor.fetchone()
        if result:
            return result
        else:
            raise StopIteration

    def __iter__(self):
        return self

Have I understood the problem correctly?

-- 
alan kennedy
-----------------------------------------------------
check http headers here: http://xhaus.com/headers
email alan:              http://xhaus.com/mailto/alan



From ted at REMOVE_THIS.sendmail.com  Tue Jul 22 14:16:24 2003
From: ted at REMOVE_THIS.sendmail.com (Ted Weatherly)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 11:16:24 -0700
Subject: Automatically filling in answers to interactive shell command  questions
References: <d365ef4b.0307211423.27ba6d86@posting.google.com> <3F1C8070.787A7293@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <bfk3qr$f10$1@mothra.sendmail.com>

Thanks for all the useful suggestions!

I tried both approaches, piping to STDIN using 'addperson < person.data' and
using a pexpect script (below), and both work well.  Using pexpect hides all
the STDOUT text, and piping to STDIN displays the STDOUT text (but doesn't
show the answers provided).

Some of the questions for my 'addperson' command are conditional...ie.
sometimes 'Birthday: ' is asked and sometimes it isn't.  Therefore, pexpect
is a better fit for me.

Thanks again!

-Ted

PS> The actual command I was using is different.  Regardless, this python
script should do the trick (it might have some minor flaws):

#!/usr/bin/env python
# addperson.py
"""This automatically answers questions when running addperson
"""

import pexpect
import re

# Store list of answers about each person
answers = [
    ['Ted', '12/08/1977', '6\'0"', 'San Francisco, CA'],
    ['Jesus', '12/25/0000', '6\'2"', 'Bethleham'],
    ['Satan', 'n/a', 'n/a"', 'Hell'],
    ]

# Iterate over all the people
for a in answers:
    done = 0
    child = pexpect.spawn ('/usr/sbin/addperson')
    # Iterate over all the questions for the command
    while not done:
        i = child.expect (['First Name: ',
                           'Birthday: ',
                           'Height: ',
                           'Location: '])
        if i>=0 or i<=3:
            # Send answer for this question
            child.sendline (a[i])
            #print 'Answered question #'+str(i+1)
            if i==3:
                done = 1
                print 'Done with'+str(a[0])


"Erik Max Francis" <max at alcyone.com> wrote in message
news:3F1C8070.787A7293 at alcyone.com...
> Ted Weatherly wrote:
>
> > Is it possible to use python to automatically fill in the answers to
> > interactive shell command questions?  For example, I am using a shell
> > command addperson that behaves as follows:
> >
> >   > addperson
> >   First Name: Ted
> >   Birthday: 12/08/1977
> >   Height: 6'0"
> >   Location: San Francisco, CA
> >   >
> >
> > I am prompted for "First Name: " and I enter "Ted".  I am prompted for
> > "Birthday: " and I enter "12/08/1977".  Imagine doing this for 100
> > people or more...it gets tiresome.
> >
> > Assuming I can't change the addperson command to read data from a
> > file, is there any way to use python to fill in the data for the
> > expected questions?  Perhaps a different language would be better?
>
> expect was designed for this.  If the addperson program doesn't require
> an interactive shell, you can get away with it with something as simple
> as:
>
> addperson <<EOF
> Ted
> 12/08/1977
> 6'0"
> San Francisco, CA
> EOF
>
> Or by putting these one per line in a file,
>
> addperson < people.data
>
> One certainly _could_ use Python for this, but in this case there are
> probably better (and much simpler) tools for the job.
>
> -- 
>    Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
>  __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
> /  \ Behind an able man there are always other able men.
> \__/  (a Chinese proverb)





From mwh at python.net  Mon Jul 21 12:31:32 2003
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 16:31:32 GMT
Subject: Dr. Dobb's Python-URL! - weekly Python news and links (Jul 21)
References: <vhne9r38jpsq8a@corp.supernews.com> <ar4ohvob0c0a0lltlq739ccm5d0du58fmd@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <7h3ispvzw4f.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

Scott Schlesier <sschlesi at bigfoot.com> writes:

> On Mon, 21 Jul 2003 09:58:19 -0000, Irmen de Jong
> <python-url at phaseit.net> wrote:
> 
> Am I experiencing a "technical difficulty", or are all of the links
> below broken?

I think there's been some quoted-printable nagery happening.

Cheers,
mwh

-- 
  LINTILLA:  You could take some evening classes.
    ARTHUR:  What, here?
  LINTILLA:  Yes, I've got a bottle of them.  Little pink ones.
                   -- The Hitch-Hikers Guide to the Galaxy, Episode 12



From tim.one at comcast.net  Fri Jul 18 18:29:47 2003
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 18:29:47 -0400
Subject: Threading Pool Event()
In-Reply-To: <NDZRa.273$vD1.11889@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au>
Message-ID: <BIEJKCLHCIOIHAGOKOLHAENLGFAA.tim.one@comcast.net>

[Graeme Matthew, to Aahz]
> Thanks, ive actually been using your OSCON slides which have helped a
> lot. So it technically correct that all worker threads in a thread
> pool are either doing some work  or polling the queue to find out if
> there is a job to process ?

They don't poll in the sense most people use that word:

> eg: (pseudocodish :-))
>
> def run(self):
>
>     while 1:
>
>         self.lock.acquire()
>
>         if QueueManager.HasJob:
>             job = QueueManager.GetFreeJob()
>             __processJob(job)
>
>         self.lock.release()

I agree that's what most people mean by polling:  running a "spin loop",
checking over and over again, possibly with a time.sleep() call per
iteration to avoid saturating the CPU.  That's not what Queue.get() does,
though!  You can find the source code in Lib/Queue.py.  When .get() is
called without a timeout argument, it simply tries to acquire a particular
internal lock.  If you dig into that deeply enough, you'll eventually find
that if the thread can't acquire the lock immediately, in the bowels of your
C library and/or operating system it goes to sleep, and passively waits for
a platform-specific gimmick to wake it up again when the lock it's waiting
for gets released.  No looping is involved (well, none at the Python
level -- your C library and/or OS may have an internal loop, although in no
case should a thread waiting on a Queue.get() consume appreciable CPU time).





From jeremy at alum.mit.edu  Tue Jul 15 12:46:48 2003
From: jeremy at alum.mit.edu (Jeremy Hylton)
Date: 15 Jul 2003 12:46:48 -0400
Subject: Mix lambda and list comprehension?
In-Reply-To: <6f5b3f88.0307150732.1b0a2526@posting.google.com>
References: <6f5b3f88.0307142302.1a1531f3@posting.google.com>
	 <hMNQa.1134$I4.740@nwrdny01.gnilink.net>
	 <6f5b3f88.0307150732.1b0a2526@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1058287608.18967.102.camel@slothrop.zope.com>

On Tue, 2003-07-15 at 11:32, Peter Barth wrote:
> Thanks a lot, works fine.
> However, the solution does not really feel "pythonesque".
> Is it considered a usability bug or fine as is?

If there's something that's not Pythonesque, I'd say its creating
function objects inside a list comprehension, not the standard scoping
rules that apply everywhere.

Jeremy






From Juha.Autero at iki.fi  Thu Jul 31 07:00:54 2003
From: Juha.Autero at iki.fi (Juha Autero)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 14:00:54 +0300
Subject: Python speed vs csharp
References: <rkdc7poiachh.1x4jtxjzaf3zo.dlg@40tude.net>
Message-ID: <87n0ev7yft.fsf@jautero.no-ip.org>

Mike <mike at nospam.com> writes:


> Since the test case code was fairly small, I
> translated it to C and ran it. The C code runs in approximately 7.5
> seconds. That's compelling, but C isn't: part of my simulation includes a
> parser to read an input file. I put that together in a few minutes in
> Python, but there are no corresponding string or regex libraries with my C
> compiler, so converting my Python code would take far more time than I'd
> save during the resulting simulations.

So, write only most executed parts with C as C extension to
Python. This is the reason I like Python. If your program is not fast
enough, you can implement critical functions with C. For example the
error function would be very simple to turn into an C extension module
using "Extending and Embedding the Python Interpreter"  document from
<URL: http://www.python.org/doc/current/ext/ext.html>.

There are several tools that make writing C extensions easier. I've
used SWIG and Pyrex. 

-- 
Juha Autero
http://www.iki.fi/jautero/
Eschew obscurity!





From frank at chagford.com  Thu Jul 10 10:13:52 2003
From: frank at chagford.com (Frank Millman)
Date: 10 Jul 2003 07:13:52 -0700
Subject: Business model for Open Source - advice wanted
Message-ID: <246a4e07.0307100613.fc2fc50@posting.google.com>

Hi all

I would like some advice, and I hope that the good people on c.l.p
will give me the benefit of their experience.

I am busy developing an accounting package, using Python and wxPython,
together with PostgreSQL on a Unix platform or SQL Server on a Windows
platform. I am a qualified accountant and have been developing
accounting software, mostly customised, for over 20 years. I have now
got myself into a position financially where I can take a few months
off and write "the perfect system". No, not really, but I have built
up a lot of experience over the years, I have a lot of ideas about
what I would like to see in a system, and I have decided to give
myself the opportunity to see how good a system I can actually write.

At some point quite soon I will have to start generating some revenue
from my efforts. I have a number of people interested in what I am
doing, and I was planning to start selling it as YAAS (yet another
accounting system) and see how many customers I could get.

As an alternative, I have been toying with the idea of releasing it
under an Open Source license. Part of my thinking is to put something
back into the Open Source community - I love working with Python,
wxPython, PostgreSQL, etc, and it would be nice to contribute
something. The other part of my thinking is that it should be
possible, with a sound business model, to make a viable income out of
supporting an Open Source product. However, as I have no experience of
this, I was wondering how other people survive financially in the Open
Source world. I have no "big daddy" that will pay me to pursue my
dreams, so whatever I do has to bring in a reasonable income.

Here are some of my ideas - any comments will by much appreciated.

The essence of a business model must be that the source code may be
free, but you have to pay for support. I believe that accounting
systems more than most systems need support, and that a sensible
company looking for accounting software would not consider anything
that was not supported. Therefore it is important to decide what kind
of support should be offered, and how to persuade customers to sign up
for it.

The software must be downloadable and runnable by anyone, and it must
be fully functional, at no charge. I realise that there is an option
to restrict functionality in the free version and make it available
only to licensed users, but then you are into security codes, source
code protection, etc, which would at least partially defeat the
object, so I am not thinking along those lines. There will be full
online help (it will probably start off sketchy, but I will improve it
over time), and maybe there should be an FAQ available. That, I think,
is all that should be free.

I would like to open a free discussion forum (probably a mailing list)
to discuss the software from a technical perspective. I am an
experienced programmer, but I am nowhere near being a Pythonista, so I
am sure there will be many areas ripe for improvement. I would like to
remain open to as much of this kind of feedback as possible.

However, any support of the software from a business or accounting
perspective will be available to registered users only. For a monthly
support fee (I am thinking of a range of $50-100 per month - let me
know if it is too high or too low) users will be able to request
support via email, which will be responded to promptly. I have a small
staff at present, and if this idea is successful I will plough money
back into expanding the support infrastructure.

To retain registered users once their software has settled down, I
have in mind a website restricted to registered users which will
provide sufficiently interesting content to persuade them to keep up
their registration. The main content I can think of is enhancement
requests - it is the nature of accounting software that there is a
continuous demand for enhancements, and I intend to keep on enhancing
and improving the product. I envisage a forum where users can forward
ideas, and others can respond/comment/criticise until there is some
consensus. A roadmap of agreed enhancements can be posted on the free
website, which will hopefully attract more users into signing up so
that they can participate.

Here are a couple of pitfalls that I can see, and my possible
solutions to them. Firstly, a user will be able to terminate his
support contract at any time, and the software will continue to
function. Therefore some may be tempted to stop paying until they have
a problem, then pay for a month, get an answer, and stop again. My
thinking is that 3 months must be paid up front to activate a support
contract. Secondly, a consultant may use my software to build up a
client base, pay a single support fee, and use that to support all his
clients. I don't think I can (or even want to) prevent that, but I can
restrict it by limiting each contract to a single email address for
replies to support queries.

These are my thoughts so far. Any comments - suggestions, warnings,
personal experiences - will be much appreciated.

Many thanks

Frank Millman



From max at alcyone.com  Sun Jul 27 19:31:19 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 16:31:19 -0700
Subject: file.close()
References: <edITa.131868$Ph3.17333@sccrnsc04> <mailman.1059052897.16526.python-list@python.org> <HBF.20030725xvv1@bombur.uio.no> <2inav-q64.ln1@beastie.ix.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <3F2460C7.44B8B046@alcyone.com>

Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:

> Hallvard B Furuseth fed this fish to the penguins on Friday 25 July
> 2003 12:51 pm:
> 
> > Um.  Explicit close does raise an exception if it fails, right?
> 
	...
>         Looks like it doesn't care... As long as the file /had/ been
> opened
> first (doesn't look like the interactive interpreter collected f until
> the del either).

I don't think you've demonstrated that; all you've shown is that builtin
Python file objects make file closing idempotent.  You haven't
demonstrated a case where there actually is an I/O error that occurs
when .close gets called.  In particular, I _really_ don't know what you
meant to show with this snippet, as it really has nothing to do with
files at all:

> >>> f
> <closed file 't.t', mode 'w' at 0x809dc88>
> >>> del f
> >>> f.close()
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
> NameError: name 'f' is not defined

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ He who knows how to be poor knows everything.
\__/  Jules Michelet



From eichin at metacarta.com  Mon Jul 21 20:22:53 2003
From: eichin at metacarta.com (eichin at metacarta.com)
Date: 21 Jul 2003 20:22:53 -0400
Subject: pythonic malloc
References: <OaOSa.6965$OM3.854@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
Message-ID: <7g1xwjqujm.fsf@pikespeak.metacarta.com>

I was going to suggest struct.pack:

>>> import struct
>>> struct.pack("<HH21s", 0xf0, 2, "rachel")
'\xf0\x00\x02\x00rachel\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00'

but it is, umm, "kind of perlish" - note also that the "21s" is
basically "string of up to 21 chars, pad with NUL if we run out" which
is probably what you wanted, but is saying it another way.

Another approach is the overpad and truncate:

   msglen = 25
   header = struct.pack("<HH", 0xf0, 2)
   msg = header + "rachel" + "\0" * msglen
   s.sendto(msg[0:msglen], addr)

ie. you know there will never be more than 25 bytes of pad (really,
more than 21, but "eww, literal numbers" presumably in your real code
you have some name attached to either the field length (which is
sufficient) in stead of the message length I've used here.)




From lorenb2 at bezeqint.net  Sun Jul 27 18:23:46 2003
From: lorenb2 at bezeqint.net (Bill Loren)
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 00:23:46 +0200
Subject: List Question
Message-ID: <001e01c3548d$bed5a420$6400a8c0@EVOD31>

Hello,

Forgive my python newbieness.
Assume I have a list named heck_of_a_list.
how would I extract the number of elements out of it ?
(I'm looking for something like perl's $#heck_of_a_list operand)

thanks
B

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From bokr at oz.net  Wed Jul 16 10:36:19 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 16 Jul 2003 14:36:19 GMT
Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re=3A_Python_Mystery_Theatre_--_Episode?=  =?ISO-8859-1?Q?_2=3A__As=ED_Fue?=
References: <VorQa.15236$Kw1.587@nwrdny02.gnilink.net> <3F130ED4.2030804@skynet.be> <mailman.1058217683.17386.python-list@python.org> <3F13C137.6090705@igpm.rwth-aachen.de>
Message-ID: <bf3nt3$dgv$0@216.39.172.122>

On Tue, 15 Jul 2003 10:54:15 +0200, "Helmut Jarausch" <jarausch at igpm.rwth-aachen.de> wrote:

>Fredrik Lundh wrote:
>> Helmut Jarausch wrote:
>> 
>> 
>>>OK, I believe to know why the last line
>>>print '3' three times, since only a reference
>>>to 'f' is stored within the lambda expression
>>>and this has the value 'thrice' when 'print'
>>>is executed.
>>>
>>>But how can I achieve something like an
>>>evaluation of one indirection so that
>>>a reference to the function referenced by 'f'
>>>is stored instead.
>> 
>> 
>> assuming you meant "the function reference by 'f' when the lambda
>> is created", the easiest solution is to use default argument binding:
>> 
>>     flam = [lambda x,f=f: f(x) for f in funcs]
>> 
>> the "f=f" construct will bind the inner name "f" to the current value of
>> the outer "f" for each lambda.
>> 
>> the nested scopes mechanism is often introduced as the "right way" to
>> do what was done with argument binding in earlier versions of Python.
>> however, nested scopes bind *names*, while argument binding binds
>> *values*.
>
>Many thanks for that hint,
>still a part of the question remains (unclear to me)
>
>Obviously Python allows references to references, since
>e.g. 'once' (the 'name' of a function) is a reference to
>the code and 'f' is a reference to that reference. (you call it
>name binding)
>A similar situation arises in Maple and there one has the choice
>to either derefence all references down to the real object
>or to just derefence a single time.
>
>Example
>
>def once(x): return x
>def twice(x): return 2*x
>ref= once
>def caller():
>     callee=ref   # (*)
>     print callee(1)
>
>caller()  # prints 1
>ref= twice
>caller()  # prints 2  so that demonstrates name binding
>
>how can I get the current value (like 'xdef' in TeX)
>of 'ref' in the assignment (*) above, so that
>'callee' becomes an (immutable) reference to 'once' ?
>
IWT the straight-forward way would be to capture ref in a callable class instance:

 >>> def once(x): return x
 ...
 >>> def twice(x): return 2*x
 ...
 >>> class Caller(object):
 ...     def __init__(self): self.callee = ref # global ref at time of init
 ...     def __call__(self): print self.callee(1)
 ...
 >>> ref = once
 >>> caller = Caller()
 >>> caller()
 1
 >>> ref = twice
 >>> caller()
 1
 >>> caller2 = Caller()
 >>> caller2()
 2
 >>> caller()
 1

You could also make a factory function that captures ref using a closure:

 >>> def ffun():
 ...     callee = ref
 ...     def caller(): print callee(1)
 ...     return caller
 ...
 >>> ref = once
 >>> caller = ffun()
 >>> caller()
 1
 >>> ref = twice
 >>> caller_twice = ffun()
 >>> caller_twice()
 2

If you just wanted the first-used ref to be "sticky," you could do something kludgy:
(note that this pospones capturing ref until the first call vs class instance creation or ffun call)

 >>> def caller():
 ...     if not hasattr(caller,'callee'): setattr(caller,'callee',ref)
 ...     print caller.callee(1)
 ...
 >>> ref = once
 >>> caller()
 1
 >>> ref = twice
 >>> caller()
 1

You can "unstick" it and have it stick again:

 >>> del caller.callee
 >>> caller()
 2
 >>> ref = once
 >>> caller()
 2

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au  Tue Jul 22 01:27:35 2003
From: bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au (Ben Finney)
Date: 22 Jul 2003 15:17:35 +0950
Subject: Python bug with dictionary
References: <3F1C84F4.3B1E4F9A@n.com>
Message-ID: <slrnbhp2gh.iji.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>

On Mon, 21 Jul 2003 20:27:32 -0400, none wrote:
> class Dict:
>     items = {}
>     name = ""

These attributes belong to the class, and are not distinct between
instances.  (For the same reason, all the functions you define in the
class become methods, shared between all instances.)

If you want each instance to have attributes distinct from other
instances, set them during the instance's initialisation:

=====
>>> class Foo( object ):
...     def __init__( self, name = None ):
...         self.items = {}
...         self.name = name
...     def addItem( self, item ):
...         self.items[ item.name ] = item
...
>>> class Bar( object ):
...     def __init__( self, name = None ):
...         self.name = name
...
>>> bar1 = Bar( "bar1" )
>>> bar2 = Bar( "bar2" )
>>> bar3 = Bar( "bar3" )
>>> bar4 = Bar( "bar4" )
>>>
>>> foo1 = Foo( "foo1" )
>>> foo2 = Foo( "foo2" )
>>>
>>> foo1.addItem( bar1 )
>>> foo1.addItem( bar2 )
>>>
>>> foo2.addItem( bar3 )
>>> foo2.addItem( bar4 )
>>>
>>> foo1.name
'foo1'
>>> foo1.items.keys()
['bar1', 'bar2']
>>>
>>> foo2.name
'foo2'
>>> foo2.items.keys()
['bar3', 'bar4']
>>>
=====

I've also changed two other things: don't name objects (of any kind)
after reserved words like "dict", you'll just lead to confusion.  Don't
bother with redundant getBlah() and setBlah() methods; just access the
attributes directly, using __getitem__() and __setitem__() in the few
cases where you actually need to intervene.

-- 
 \     "[The RIAA] have the patience to keep stomping. They're playing |
  `\      whack-a-mole with an infinite supply of tokens."  -- kennon, |
_o__)                                             http://kuro5hin.org/ |
http://bignose.squidly.org/ 9CFE12B0 791A4267 887F520C B7AC2E51 BD41714B



From alex_eberts at videotron.ca  Mon Jul 14 11:46:38 2003
From: alex_eberts at videotron.ca (Alexander Eberts)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 11:46:38 -0400
Subject: Accessing an instance's __init__ args from outside the class
Message-ID: <sfAQa.21645$O55.673402@wagner.videotron.net>

I'm new to python so appologies to the group if this question is asked
often. I'm wondering if it's possible to query an object instance to find
out what arguments the instance's __init__ function was called with from
*outside* the class's local namespace. For example, if I define a class Foo
as follows:

import sys
class Foo:
    def __init__(self, *args):
        print args                        # no problem here

...and then create an instance of Foo:

>>> someobj = Foo('bar', 'bleck')
('bar', 'bleck')

Now, I'd like to be able to find out what arguments someobj was called with.
So first I tried:

>>> print someobj.args

but I get: "AttributeError: args"

so then I tried:

>>> print some_obj.__init__.func_defaults

which returns an empty tuple

and then I tried:

>>> some_obj.__dict__['args']
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<interactive input>", line 1, in ?
KeyError: args

No dice.. Is there any way to find out what arguments an object was called
with? Are the args stored with the instance? I scoured the python faq but
there are no answers (that I could see) to this question. Any help would be
much appreciated.

yours,

Alex Eberts





From adechert at earthlink.net  Tue Jul 29 18:57:15 2003
From: adechert at earthlink.net (Alan Dechert)
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 22:57:15 GMT
Subject: Voting Project Needs Python People
References: <LDVSa.14955$Mc.1126731@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <5ab0af73.0307211623.6e12f807@posting.google.com> <Rx%Sa.15557$Mc.1169683@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <84fc4588.0307290514.54d68563@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <fZCVa.124863$Io.10638294@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>

Thank you Anand,

I am forwarding your message to our list.

Alan

"Anand Pillai" <pythonguy at Hotpop.com> wrote in message
news:84fc4588.0307290514.54d68563 at posting.google.com...
> I am ready to join this project. As for knowing python I guess
> I do.
>
> Before you take my word for it take a look at my homepage
> at http://members.lycos.co.uk/anandpillai.
>
> I dont need money, just free beer and pizza ;-) (joking)
>
> ~Anand
>
>
> "Alan Dechert" <adechert at earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:<Rx%Sa.15557$Mc.1169683 at newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>...
> > "Matt Shomphe" <MatthewS at HeyAnita.com> wrote in message
> > news:5ab0af73.0307211623.6e12f807 at posting.google.com...
> > > "Alan Dechert" <adechert at earthlink.net> wrote in message
> >  news:<LDVSa.14955$Mc.1126731 at newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>...
> > >
> > > > We have an excellent team together.  We're looking for a few good
Python
> > > > coders willing to volunteer for this free open source project.  It
will
> >  be
> > > > on sourceforge.net later today.
> > >
> > > Are there any prerequisites for joining the team?
> > >
> > It would be nice if you know some Python.  Do you?
> >
> > BTW, I'm told it will take a day or two to get the project going on
> > sourceforge.net.
> >
> > Alan Dechert
>





From bokr at oz.net  Mon Jul 28 16:00:39 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 28 Jul 2003 20:00:39 GMT
Subject: Readling all input from stdin
References: <VI7Va.40548$Kb2.1696739@news010.worldonline.dk>
Message-ID: <bg3vd7$o5f$0@216.39.172.122>

On Mon, 28 Jul 2003 13:25:33 +0200, Svenne Krap <usenet2003 at krap.dk> wrote:

>Hi.
>
>I am writing a small script, that is called from an external program 
>(the qmail mailserver), I need to capture all input from stdin before 
>continueing the script ..
>
>I looked for sys.stdin.readlines() but that is not present. I found 
>sys.stdin.readline(), but how do I loop through it (or rather how do I 
>know, when I am finished with looping ?)
>
>Thanks in advance
>
====< stdinlines.py >=======================================================
import sys
data = sys.stdin.read()
for line in data.splitlines(True): # keeps \n ends. (False) or () would not
    print repr(line) # to see all chars represented
============================================================================

(I have a cat on my NT that copies stdin to stdout in text mode until it sees ^Z as EOF):

[13:00] C:\pywk\clp>cat | python stdinlines.py
trimmed
   three spaces to left
three spaces to right
   three spaces both sides
next line is empty

last line with no EOL^Z
'trimmed\n'
'   three spaces to left\n'
'three spaces to right   \n'
'   three spaces both sides   \n'
'next line is empty\n'
'\n'
'last line with no EOL'


Regards,
Bengt Richter



From irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl  Tue Jul 29 18:25:59 2003
From: irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 00:25:59 +0200
Subject: Bottleneck: easy obscurity "encryption" via xor
In-Reply-To: <p6rdivscomvoraihqmac4piut7uqcpdvj1@4ax.com>
References: <p6rdivscomvoraihqmac4piut7uqcpdvj1@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3f26f477$0$49098$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

Tino Lange wrote:

> It turns out not to be quick at all. I really didn't expect this to be
> a bottleneck, but it takes quite some time.

>>   return reduce(lambda x,y: operator.add(x, chr(y)), map(lambda char, _salt = salt: operator.xor(ord(char), _salt), str), "")

Running this on a large string builds up a huge list of ints,
that you are converting to chars and then concatenating them
together using +... this creates a HUGE number of temporary
string objects.
The usual pattern of fast string joining is:

''.join(list-of-fragments)

So first try:

    return ''.join(map(lambda char, _salt = salt: chr(operator.xor(ord(char), _salt)), string))

This runs MUCH faster already.

But the version I'd recommend is:

def xorcrypt(string, salt = 255):
     if salt <0 or salt> 255:
         raise "Invalid salt! Must be 0<=salt<=255!"
     return ''.join( [ chr(ord(c) ^ salt) for c in string ] )

because
1) salt must be 0..255 not only <=255
2) forget about map & lambda, use a list comprehension.

That implementation runs about 20 times faster than your original one;
0.11 seconds for 100 Kb source data. (python 2.3)

HTH,
--Irmen de Jong





From rastm2 at aol.commorespam  Mon Jul 21 21:03:13 2003
From: rastm2 at aol.commorespam (Raymond Arthur St. Marie II of III )
Date: 22 Jul 2003 01:03:13 GMT
Subject: To ESR PLease fix links
Message-ID: <20030721210313.03007.00000302@mb-m01.aol.com>

Hi Eric,

I've been quietly going around the web asking people to please fix the broken
Tuxedo links to your pages as I find them. 

Hint.-- Hint--
http://www.catb.org/~esr/writings/cathedral-bazaar/
Your aware that many of the links in the books are still pointing to Tuxedo I'm
sure.
I also know how very busy you are.

I really wanted to make an excuse for THANKing YOU for steering me to Python
and programming in general with your "Hackers" page in 1997. I've been
following that formula for 6-7 years now and hope that some day my
H(obby)(abit) will pay off. 

So, I quietly remain in the shadows, reading everything you and other HEROs
write.
Coding my future.

Thank you sincerely
Ray St. Marie
Rastm2 at aol.com 



From mwh at python.net  Tue Jul 22 09:56:07 2003
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 13:56:07 GMT
Subject: [OT] On the TimBot
References: <62slgvsljos7v5snie6toc4qucv5nt1n15@4ax.com> <cf052f0d.0307210704.3f0b052c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <7h3znj6y8nl.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

oren at REMOVETHIS1.hishome.net (Oren Tirosh) writes:

> Christos "TZOTZIOY" Georgiou <tzot at sil-tec.gr> wrote in message news:<62slgvsljos7v5snie6toc4qucv5nt1n15 at 4ax.com>...
> ...
> > 3. To "Tron" fans: yes, you could assign the name TimBit to it, but it's
> > a broken Bit; what's the use of a Bit that's always true?
> 
> Henry Spencer is well known around the sci.space.* newsgroups for
> being very rarely wrong. About as rarely as the TimBot. People that
> manage to correct Henry get the coveted "I Corrected Henry" virtual
> T-shirt.
> 
> May I propose the "I Corrected Timbot" award?

But Tim is never wrong: it's just that reality fucks up now and again.

Cheers,
mwh

-- 
  > Why are we talking about bricks and concrete in a lisp newsgroup?
  After long experiment it was found preferable to talking about why
  Lisp is slower than C++...
                        -- Duane Rettig & Tim Bradshaw, comp.lang.lisp



From printers at sendme.cz  Thu Jul  3 05:10:15 2003
From: printers at sendme.cz (A)
Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 11:10:15 +0200
Subject: How to setup webserver for Python
Message-ID: <3F040F17.25697.E24EF9@localhost>

Hello,
I have a webhosting account with one company.
I can use python from command line through Telnet(SSH) but can not run successfully 
Python program from a browser.(They use Apache web server.)
What must I do?
What permission must I set on directory and the python file?
Here is a simple program I would like to run 
########
#!/usr/bin/python 
print "Content-Type: text/html"    print
print"AAA"
########
Thanks for help
Ladislav

I look forward to hearing from you soon.

Best regards,
Ladislav Blazek( Mr.)

BMA TRADING Ltd.
email1: export at sendme.cz
email2: export at bmatrading.com
email3: exportimport at quick.cz
Fax:/Tel +420 516 447921
Tel:+420 516 447920, 
Mobile:+420 602 849309







From grante at visi.com  Thu Jul 17 12:24:56 2003
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 17 Jul 2003 16:24:56 GMT
Subject: Reading from serial port & writing to X console
References: <mailman.1058453987.15227.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3f16cdd8$0$150$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>

In article <mailman.1058453987.15227.python-list at python.org>, lec wrote:

> I'm trying to write a program to read from the serial port &
> write whatever that is read to the X console (/dev/tty7). For X
> to recognize the characters sent, I believe you have to send
> "scancodes".

No.  You can simply read /dev/ttyS0 and write to /dev/tty7:

In shell:

 $ (stty 9600 -paren -ixon -ixoff; cat) </dev/ttyS0 >/dev/tty7

Change the stty parameters as desired.

In Python, just open /dev/ttyS0, /dev/tty7.  Read from one and
write to the other.  

There are a couple different serial port modules that wrap up
serial ports into objects to hide the nasty termios stuff.

Google the group for terms like PosixSeral PySerial.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  Why was I BORN?
                                  at               
                               visi.com            



From ianb at colorstudy.com  Wed Jul  2 01:49:36 2003
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: 02 Jul 2003 00:49:36 -0500
Subject: Circular Inheritance
In-Reply-To: <slrnbg4850.st5.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>
References: <mailman.1057099023.14043.python-list@python.org>
	 <slrnbg4850.st5.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>
Message-ID: <1057124976.726.135.camel@lothlorien>

On Tue, 2003-07-01 at 19:00, Ben Finney wrote:
> Re-design the modules so that inheritance is a hierarchy.  A band-aid
> solution may be to create a new class that mediates between two others,
> breaking the circle.  Much better is to figure out why the classes need
> to know so much about each other, and redesign them with smaller,
> simpler interfaces.

It seems quite reasonable to have circular dependencies between two or
more classes.  The most common case being that one class references the
other, and the other class has back references.  Very common, and it
doesn't imply that the classes know too much about each other.

You might encounter less problems if those classes go together in a
single module, but module boundaries are just there to help the
programmer organize code, they have little formal meaning.

> Even if there were a way to do circular inheritance, it would be a
> nightmare to understand, so needs to be redesigned anyway.

He probably just meant circular dependency, since obviously inheritance
doesn't make sense.

  Ian






From fredrik at pythonware.com  Thu Jul 31 12:02:57 2003
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 18:02:57 +0200
Subject: Unfortunate exception on dict item assignment (and why aren't slices hashable?)
References: <mailman.1058752171.10243.python-list@python.org> <bg5vg6$2d2$1@panix1.panix.com> <67fdivk9iu0q1p7nc8smfj1miip3cbvobf@4ax.com> <mailman.1059566448.27346.python-list@python.org> <bg8jbv$r92$1@panix1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <bgbeje$2nt$1@main.gmane.org>

Aahz wrote:
> (Despite my regular comments on python-dev, I don't contribute
> code because SF refuses to make changes to allow Lynx to work
> correctly.)

maybe someone with an SF account could help you out?  could it be
worth setting up an aahz-helpers mailing list somewhere, manned by
volunteers with SF access and modern browsers?

</F>







From jjl at pobox.com  Fri Jul  4 21:26:52 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 05 Jul 2003 02:26:52 +0100
Subject: loading objects from ZODB
References: <be47oo$621$05$1@news.t-online.com> <be48ru$p9o$1@biggoron.nerim.net>
Message-ID: <87brw93grn.fsf@pobox.com>

"Gilles Lenfant" <glenfant at NOSPAM.bigfoot.com> writes:

> "Achim Domma" <domma at procoders.net> a ?crit dans le message de news:
> be47oo$621$05$1 at news.t-online.com...
> > I'm playing around with ZODB but I don't understand when objects are loaded
> > from the DB. Assume I have an object containing a list of other objects. If
> > this object is loaded from ZODB, when is the list filled? Only on demand? I
> > think yes, because otherwise reading the top node would result in loading
> > the whole database. But I wanted to be sure!

BTrees (OOBTree, IOBTree, OITree, IITree) load contained objects on
demand, most other data structures (including PersistentList and
PersistentMapping) don't.


> It seems you don't need to care about this. The persistence of objects is
> (almost) transparent.
> You get/set the objects through a transparent cache to the database.
> The only rule : all objects must be picklable, and watch the doc about
> _v_xxx and p_xxx attributes.

That's not the only rule.  Documentation is thin, of course.  Andrew
Kuchling's intro is required reading, as is Jim Fulton's (though the
latter is particularly out of date, IIRC).  There is some useful info
on BTrees and associated data structures on the Zope wiki.


John



From ianb at colorstudy.com  Sat Jul  5 00:57:42 2003
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: 04 Jul 2003 23:57:42 -0500
Subject: ANN: SQLObject 0.4
Message-ID: <1057381061.516.46.camel@lothlorien>

SQLObject 0.4: http://sqlobject.org

Changes
=======

* New (cleaner) column definition style, including for foreign keys
* Alternate naming conventions supported
* Subclassing supported

What Is SQLObject?
==================

SQLObject is an object-relational mapper, translating RDBMS tables into
classes, rows into instances of those classes, allowing you to
manipulate those objects to transparently manipulate the database. 
SQLObject currently supports Postgres, MySQL, and SQLite.

Links
=====

Download:
http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/sqlobject/SQLObject-0.4.tar.gz?download
Documentation:
http://sqlobject.org/docs/SQLObject.html
News:
http://sqlobject.org/docs/News.html

-- 
Ian Bicking   ianb at colorstudy.com  http://colorstudy.com
PGP:  gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 0x9B9E28B7





From g2h5dqi002 at sneakemail.com  Mon Jul 21 00:11:05 2003
From: g2h5dqi002 at sneakemail.com (Greg Ewing (using news.cis.dfn.de))
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 16:11:05 +1200
Subject: Possible use of Python for a voting machine demo project -- your
 feedback requested
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1058746831.18958.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1058746831.18958.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bffnba$eiliu$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>

Tony Meyer wrote:
> What about non-English names?  Names with umlauts, accents, Asian
> characters, and so on?

A chart of the Unicode characters on the wall,
and a hex touchpad. :-)

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg




From dtolton at yahoo.com  Wed Jul 16 14:13:51 2003
From: dtolton at yahoo.com (Doug Tolton)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 18:13:51 GMT
Subject: Augmented Assignment question
Message-ID: <215bhv0bnkn13eivh0s64ic5ml8obpgfg7@4ax.com>

I have a function that returns a tuple:

    def checkdoc(self, document):
        blen = document['length']
        bates = document['obates']

        normal, truncated, semicolon = 0,0,0
        for bat in bates:
            if len(bat) == 2 * blen:
                semicolon += 1
            if len(bat) == blen - 1:
                truncated += 1
            if len(bat) == blen:
                normal += 1

        return normal, truncated, semicolon

on the other side I have 3 variables:
normal, truncated and semicolon

I would like to be able to do an augmented assignment such as:

normal, truncated, semicol += self.checkdoc(mydoc)

however this returns the following error:
SyntaxError: augmented assign to tuple not possible

I did some reading and it seems that an augmented assignment is
specifically verboten on tuples and lists.  Is there a clean way to
accomplish this?  I dislike in the extreme what I've resorted to:

fnormal, ftruncated, fsemicolon = 0,0,0

// loop through a file and process all documents:
	normal, truncated, semicolon = self.checkdoc(curdoc)
	fnormal += normal
	ftruncated += truncated
	fsemicolon += semicolon

This solution strikes me as inelegant and ugly.  Is there a cleaner
way of accomplishing this?

Thanks in advance,
Doug Tolton
dougt at<remove this>case<remove this too>data dot com



From bdesth.nospam at removeme.free.fr  Fri Jul 25 16:19:19 2003
From: bdesth.nospam at removeme.free.fr (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 22:19:19 +0200
Subject: Static typing
In-Reply-To: <LvdUa.905$DU.696@fe12.atl2.webusenet.com>
References: <LvdUa.905$DU.696@fe12.atl2.webusenet.com>
Message-ID: <3f218ef1$0$27926$626a54ce@news.free.fr>

Michael Muller wrote:
> Is there currently any plan to introduce static typing in any future
> version of Python?  

Seriously, why would you do that ?

Bruno




From deets_noospaam at web.de  Sun Jul 27 16:29:52 2003
From: deets_noospaam at web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 22:29:52 +0200
Subject: multithreading-problem
References: <bg0ubo$ujq$00$1@news.t-online.com> <EyWUa.8$Sq2.124@news.oracle.com>
Message-ID: <bg1co1$m0o$01$1@news.t-online.com>

Manish Jethani wrote:

>> 
>> Placing a time.sleep(3) after the thread.start() fixed things. So it
>> appears that the curried lambda passed as target is somehow a reference
>> equal for all four invocations.
> 
> No, I don't believe it to be true.  It's probably just that the
> other threads aren't getting a chance to run.  Consider
> time.sleep(0) in the while loop in work()

No, they all run - just a few of them have the same parameters. In my real
app, all of them do some work, which takes an individual amount of time. In
the main-thread I wait for all of them to be terminated, and while doing
that print how much are still running. All this works as expected. The only
thing not working is the parameter passing.

Diez



From pedro.werneck at bol.com.br  Sun Jul 20 10:30:55 2003
From: pedro.werneck at bol.com.br (Pedro Werneck)
Date: 20 Jul 2003 07:30:55 -0700
Subject: Tk mainloop()
References: <mailman.1058675670.11192.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ef72fb2b.0307200630.120588dc@posting.google.com>

"Petr Evstratov" <tetra701 at mail.ru> wrote in message 
> I need to change the contents of a label every second, but I think I will also use some other functions as well...

Well... there are some docs here that you should read...

http://www.pythonware.com/library/tkinter/introduction/x9507-alarm-handlers-and-other.htm

Note that if you want it to be continuousy called, you will need to
re-register it on each call...



From jjl at pobox.com  Mon Jul  7 08:48:10 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 07 Jul 2003 13:48:10 +0100
Subject: A story about Python... sort of
References: <mailman.1057554011.6652.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87wueu7bat.fsf@pobox.com>

"Tony Meyer" <ta-meyer at ihug.co.nz> writes:

> > A chess program 
> > is different from a 3D game in that with a 3D game, you can 
> > stop at some point and say, "ok, this is fast enough." There 
[...]
> This isn't really true.  Sure you can say that the framerate is fast enough,
> but when do you stop and say "the graphics look real enough"?  (I'm sure
> there is a point, but it's a distant point, like 'solving' chess).

No matter how distant, it's nowhere near as far off as 'solving' chess
(which is no doubt physically impossible, at least with classical
(Turing machine) computation).


John



From hst at empolis.co.uk  Thu Jul 31 11:53:44 2003
From: hst at empolis.co.uk (Harvey Thomas)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 16:53:44 +0100
Subject: regular expression
Message-ID: <8FC4E7C302A6A64AAD5DB1FA0E825DEB04F4E1@hendrix.empolisuk.com>

Wiebke P?tzold wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> I wrote a little program. Here it is:
> 
> import sys
> import Mk4py
>
> db = Mk4py.storage("c:\\datafile.mk",1)
> vw = db.view("people")
> 
> def func(row):
>     try:
>         if row.Nachname[0:1]=='G':
>             return 1
>         else:
>             return 0
>     except AttributeError:
>         return 0
>

 
> 
> vf = vw.filter(func)
> 
> for r in vf:
>     print  vw[r.index].Nachname,vw[r.index].Kongressbereich
>     
> 
> I create a database that contains a table. 'Nachname' and
> 'Kongressbereich' are special fieldnames. This program can search for
> a special letter. In my example it is 'G'. and the search takes place
> in 'Nachname'.
> Mow I want to use regular expression. So that I can limit my search.
> For example: I can search for Ge and it is not relevant wich letters
> follow
> Could somebody help me with this task?
> 
> Wiebke
> -- 
import re at the top of the program and replace your func function with (untested):

compiled_pattern = re.compile('Ge') #match pattern is anything starting with 'Ge'
def func(row):
    try:
        if compiled_pattern.match(row.Nachname):
            return 1
        else:
            return 0
    except AttributeError:
        return 0

_____________________________________________________________________
This message has been checked for all known viruses by the MessageLabs Virus Scanning Service.




From R.Brodie at rl.ac.uk  Wed Jul 30 06:11:30 2003
From: R.Brodie at rl.ac.uk (Richard Brodie)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 11:11:30 +0100
Subject: mime types and vector graphics
References: <eomcnf5kxctp3LqiU-KYvg@august.net>
Message-ID: <bg85kj$r1e@newton.cc.rl.ac.uk>

"Terry Hancock" <hancock at anansispaceworks.com> wrote in message
news:eomcnf5kxctp3LqiU-KYvg at august.net...

> Well, that looks a lot like MIME content-types, but not quite.  In
> particular, MIME seems to have nothing to say about vector graphics (I
> guess they must be in the "application" type?).  But I'm not very
> well-informed about MIME, so I wonder if my information is up-to-date.

image/cgm is a registered MIME type, so I guess not. The RFC says
something like - if you need a graphical output device to display it - it's an
image.

> How is SVG specified in MIME, for example?  I've seen "image/svg" and
> "image/svg+xml" and so on in a Google search, but one thing the web does
> poorly is tell you what the date was on the page you're reading! :-O

The trouble is that the W3C doesn't do MIME types, IANA does.
IANA expect the format to be in wide use prior to assigning the
type, which isn't a great fit for how the web works.

So the answer is probably as image/svg+xml eventually.

> When I want to add a vector type, such as DXF, for example, should I go
> with:

image/vnd.dxf  (it's already registered)
if it weren't I'd go with image/x-dxf

> (or maybe something weird along the lines of the svg+xml stuff I saw above,
> that looks frighteningly like adding a third layer in the MIME hierarchy).

The +xml bit is a bit scary. The rationale is that you can do useful processing
on a XML document (e.g browse the document tree) without any specific
knowledge.





From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Jul  8 12:22:32 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 12:22:32 -0400
Subject: anything new on the ternary operator?
References: <y20Oa.11236$Hb.197832@news4.e.nsc.no> <OxAOa.4802$os2.72457@news2.e.nsc.no>
Message-ID: <3F0AEFC8.B5B04C11@engcorp.com>

Tor wrote:
> 
> (if C: x else: z)
> 
> Was this the winning syntax?  

http://tinyurl.com/763f

> Why are the parentheses neccessary (and are they really)?

Please don't reopen the discussion here, without at first reading the
entire archive of the previous discussion. ;-)

http://groups.google.ca/groups?th=45e47b6ed1fad306&seekm=mailman.1047355305.32469.python-list%40python.org#link1

-Peter



From exarkun at twistedmatrix.com  Tue Jul 15 20:01:46 2003
From: exarkun at twistedmatrix.com (Jp Calderone)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 20:01:46 -0400
Subject: Curses module.
In-Reply-To: <iJ%Qa.1892$ym.488598@news20.bellglobal.com>
References: <iJ%Qa.1892$ym.488598@news20.bellglobal.com>
Message-ID: <20030715235847.GA15654@intarweb.us>

On Tue, Jul 15, 2003 at 07:03:33PM -0400, Alex wrote:
> Hello all,
> 
> I'm trying to learn Python, in particular the curses module. My system 
> is running Slackware 9.0 and the verion of Python that comes installed 
> with Slackware 9.0 is Python 2.2.2.
> 
> I've been trying to access the curses.wrapper module without any 
> success. I know that the wrapper exists in /usr/lib/python2.2/curses yet 
> any reference that I make to it is rebuffed by the interpreter.
> 
> Here's the python script I'm trying to run:
> 
> [snip apparently correct code]
> 
> This is the error message that I get when I try to run the script from 
> the CLI:
> 
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "./curses3.py", line 15, in ?
>     curses.wrapper(newWindow())
> AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'wrapper'
> 
> Any ideas as to what I could be doing wrong?
> 

  Do you, perhaps, have a file named "curses.py" in your current directory? 
If so, "import curses" will load this, and not the stdlib module.

  You could also try printing "curses.__file__" to make sure the module is
really coming from where you believe it is.

  Jp




From kbass1 at nc.rr.com  Sun Jul  6 20:10:41 2003
From: kbass1 at nc.rr.com (Kevin Bass)
Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 00:10:41 GMT
Subject: Newbie Question: Abstract Class in Python
Message-ID: <5U2Oa.239646$jp.6482027@twister.southeast.rr.com>

Hello:

I am new to Python and want to know how to implement an abstract class? I
have read through different books and I have no found this information.
Thanks!

Kevin





From warlock at eskimo.com  Thu Jul  3 13:01:19 2003
From: warlock at eskimo.com (Jim Richardson)
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 10:01:19 -0700
Subject: PyQT and Mandrake 9.1
References: <bdrsbq$2a8d$1@biggoron.nerim.net> <bdrug5$vdeid$1@ID-174077.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <v34et-ih5.ln1@grendel.myth>

On Tue, 1 Jul 2003 14:23:36 +0200,
 MK <MK at foo.com> wrote:
> "Gilles Lenfant" <glenfant at NOSPAM.bigfoot.com> wrote
> 
>> I've been very excited by PyQT evangelists.
> 
> Be careful. QT is controlled by one company,
> and it costs money. YMMV, however.
> 
> 


Not on Linux, the Linux QT version, is GPL'd, so you can get it free,
and Free. If you want to write closed source programmes with it, then
you will need to buy a licence from TT, but if you want to write open
source programmes, at least with Linux (I don't know about the MSWindows
version) then you don't need to pay one red cent. 

-- 
Jim Richardson         http://www.eskimo.com/~warlock

Linux, because eventually, you grow up enough to be trusted with a fork()



From cben at techunix.technion.ac.il  Thu Jul 31 09:12:59 2003
From: cben at techunix.technion.ac.il (Beni Cherniavsky)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 16:12:59 +0300 (IDT)
Subject: streams (was: Re: Itertools)
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1059595786.6376.python-list@python.org>
References: <KKtVa.8$Y5.1@llslave.llan.ll.mit.edu>
 <Pine.GSO.4.51.0307302112430.15928@techunix.technion.ac.il>
 <mailman.1059595786.6376.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.51.0307311405250.11376@techunix.technion.ac.il>

Mike Rovner wrote on 2003-07-30:

> Beni Cherniavsky wrote:
> > Any feedback welcome.  I'd like to make it as Pythonic as possible.
>
> > An perhaps make it standard.  Particular open questions:
>
> >   - The linked lists are called "streams" by me because they are lazy
> >     and that's what such beasts are called in functional languages.
>
> Stream is used differently in Tcl and Unix.  Minded separation
> Python from functional approach (deprecation of filter, map;
> doubtfulness of implementing tail recursion optimization) probably
> it is not so inspiring for regular python programmer.
>
Point taken.  But what do you call it then?  Lazy linked lists has
only one single-word name that I'm aware of and that is "streams";
there is no name for it in Tcl and Unix becauit is almost never used
in them, as far as I know.

> Lazy "streams" are a good thing provided they can be easily used for
> organizing data pathes and connections.
>
Python already provides the minimal construct for connecting producers
and consumers of data: the iterator protocol.  It is minimalistic and
becomes inconvenient when you want to use the same value more than one
time, for lookahead, backtracking or simply connecting the same source
to many consumers.  All this is quite easy with the head/tail access
to streams; it's a very powerfull abstraction.  Since streams are
implemented as linked lists, they don't leak memory for infinite
iterators, unless you keep a reference to a fixed position in the
stream.  Over streams I've built an iterator which also provides the
same powers but more in line with Python's iterator protocol.

> >     - `Cons` still requires lisp background but I don't know any name
> >       that would be recognizable to non-lispers anyway.  And it's not
> >       a bad name.
>
> Construct, Glue, Merge?
> Taken readability any whole word is better.
>
`Construct` is too long.  Compare with `str`, `int`, `dict` rather
than `string`, `integer` and `dictionary`.

How would `Glue` and `Merge` be meaningful here?  The only
associasions of "glue" are what TeX puts between boxes and "glue
layers" between different languages or libraries.  "Merge" sounds like
the process of taking several sequences of values and interlevaing
them in some way (like in merge sort; BTW, it needs a lookahead of 1
for each stream, so it should be convenient to implement with
streams).  But this has nothing to do with what `Cons` does: creating
a new stream by prepending given head to given tail.  `Cons` is the
only term I know of that unabigously refers to this operation, again
coming from functional languages <wink>.

There is another possibility: rename `Cons` to `Stream` and `Stream`
to `LazyStream`; `Stream` would then be a factory function creating
either depending on whether it got 1 or two arguments.  Would this be
better?

> >     - I called the operation for creating new iterator from same place
> >       "forking".  Alternative names: `split`, `copy`, `clone`, `dup`,
> >       "lookahead", etc.  What's best?
>
> copy is already using construct in python. Why not use it?
>
Copy was adviced against by Erik Max Francis, see:

http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=3EEF7CA0.623C201C%40alcyone.com

However, it really copies the iterator, it's just very fast.  So I
think I will indeed name this `.copy()` (aliased as `.__copy__`).

> >   - Anything else anybody needs?
>
> If I got the intend of Stream correctly, I wish use them as Tcl streams,
> so I'd need combining and filtering and i/o.
>
You can use a `Stream` or `StreamIter` over a file object to get
lookahead and mulitple passes over it, without requiring the file to
be seekable!  That's one of the main uses.  It also gives you ability
to "unread" any amount of data.  Note that if you simply apply it to a
file the stream operates on a line at a time; you will need to wrap
the file with a custom generator if you wish to operate at character
level; working at token level might be the best compromise.

I'm not familiar with Tcl streams, so I don't understand the
"combining and filtering" reference - can you elaborate?

-- 
Beni Cherniavsky <cben at tx.technion.ac.il>

Put a backslash at the evening to continue hacking onto the next day.




From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Jul 10 21:31:22 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 21:31:22 -0400
Subject: Securing PyDoc and CGIHTTPserver
References: <2621b014.0307100535.449ad06f@posting.google.com> <3F0D7887.9D069ED0@engcorp.com> <xqx3chexplh.fsf@cola2.ca.boeing.com>
Message-ID: <3F0E136A.6222F201@engcorp.com>

Harry George wrote:
> 
> Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> writes:
> 
> > Jon Schull wrote:
> > >
> > > However, even with the patch, IP addresses can be spoofed.  Here is an
> > > additional security tactic that might be adopted.
> > >
> > > [...] However, if the port
> > > were chosen at random and printed out, then only pydoc and the user
> > > would know how to access the pydoc server.
> > >
> > My suggestion: don't attempt to mix security into each individual
> > application in a piecemeal manner.  Use the proper tools for the
> > job, such as firewalls.  Setting up a firewall on Linux or WinXP
> > is nearly trivial at this point, and the learning experience is
> > worth the effort for those who are new to this, so there's not
> > much excuse for doing it properly, IMHO.
> 
> Here, we have lots of COTS *NIX behind the corporate firewalls, and
> want to provide internal security.  We do this with SSL'd
> communications.  I can see how a firewall denies/allows specific IP
> addresses (or at least claimed IP addresses), but not how it solves
> sniffing, spoofing, man-in-the-middle, etc., where encryption
> protocols are needed.

Uh, yeah.... but the OP wasn't asking about sniffing, spoofing, or
main-in-the-middle attacks, near as I can tell, nor about using 
encryption.  He was suggesting an unusual modification to one or
more applications which would otherwise be decoupled from security,
by adding into them features which are better handled by firewalls.

I'm not saying firewalls handle all security.  At least I don't
think I did.  I vaguely remember saying "proper tools for the
job, *such as* firewalls" [emphasis added], thus implying there
are other approaches that might be appropriate.

-Peter



From vze4rx4y at verizon.net  Mon Jul 14 22:30:07 2003
From: vze4rx4y at verizon.net (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 02:30:07 GMT
Subject: Python Mystery Theatre -- Episode 2:  Así Fue
References: <VorQa.15236$Kw1.587@nwrdny02.gnilink.net> <8f35dab2.0307141258.3da9b9d4@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <PGJQa.485$LW3.252@nwrdny02.gnilink.net>

[Jason Trowbridge]
> Act I
> I didn't know that python formatting could do that!  I've always
> treated it like C's printf-style of statements, as that seems to be
> what it's primarily based off.

That's why this one was included.
Hope everyone learned something new.


> The radix parameter gives the base for the conversion and may be any
> integer in the range [2, 36], or zero. If radix is zero, the proper
> radix is guessed based on the contents of string; the interpretation
> is the same as for integer literals.
>
> That explains the 0 radix and the exception caused by the -1000 radix.
>  So why does it work with a radix of -909?  I presume a bug (which
> probably got fixed in later versions of Python).  I'll have to see if
> this behavior is present under Python 2.3b at home.

The learning points are:

* the 0 prefix indicator for octal is ignored when an explicit base is specified
* specifying zero as a base allows the prefix to have the desired effect
* -909 is an undocumented implementation detail (hackish but not a bug).


> Apparently, os.putenv() doesn't work like I thought.
>
> Ah!  os.putenv() updates the environment, but not the os.environ
> dictionary.  It looks like os.getenv() retrieves the environmental
> variables from os.environ, and just assumes that it is up to date.
> Since it defaults to None if the environmental variable doesn't exist
> in os.environ[], that's what I get.

Those are exactly the learning points.  Congrats.

BTW, the docs do say to update os.environ directly if you want it changed.


> Aha!  So the lambda is looking up f in the current scope when it is
> executed! Instead of binding to the actual function object being
> iterated over in the list comprehension, the lambda is binding to the
> variable 'f' itself?

Yes, but Fred's explanation is much more to the point.

BTW, the example has nothing to do with lambdas, it is all about
nested scopes and binding.  You would experience the same issues
with defs inside a regular for-loop.

A secondary learning point is that list comprehensions overwrite and
expose the loop variable just like an equivalent for-loop.

> (Hey, these are fun!)


I enjoyed reading your response.
This is exactly the way I wanted the mysteries to be solved.
IMO, the newsgroup has been needing to regain some its
humor, curiousity, fun, and sense of playful exploration.


Raymond Hettinger





From fperez528 at yahoo.com  Wed Jul  9 16:45:38 2003
From: fperez528 at yahoo.com (Fernando Perez)
Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 14:45:38 -0600
Subject: LOADING DATA INTO ARRAYS
References: <mailman.1057772594.19921.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <behutk$dsv$1@peabody.colorado.edu>

satish k.chimakurthi wrote:

> 
> Hi,
> 
>      I am trying to collect the following data in X,Y,Z arrays as following:
>     
>   1.00000000000000        0.00000000000000D+000   0.00000000000000D+000
>   0.932113519778473       0.362166241174114        0.00000000000000D+000
>   0.737671227507627       0.675160099611485        0.00000000000000D+000
>   0.443073128844408       0.896485472551578        0.00000000000000D+000
>    8.83176797852179D-002  0.996092358889152        0.00000000000000D+000
>  -0.145819420809848       0.989311223283493        0.00000000000000D+000
>  -0.391263558087552       0.920278668726310        0.00000000000000D+000
>  -0.625821331717327       0.779966448488364        0.00000000000000D+000
>  -0.822296905793933       0.569058695322129        0.00000000000000D+000
>  -0.953713306870443       0.300717356163965        0.00000000000000D+000

Hi,

you might want to spare yourself some wheel re-inventing:

In [1]: cat data.dat
  1.00000000000000        0.00000000000000D+000   0.00000000000000D+000
  0.932113519778473       0.362166241174114        0.00000000000000D+000
  0.737671227507627       0.675160099611485        0.00000000000000D+000
  0.443073128844408       0.896485472551578        0.00000000000000D+000
   8.83176797852179D-002  0.996092358889152        0.00000000000000D+000
 -0.145819420809848       0.989311223283493        0.00000000000000D+000
 -0.391263558087552       0.920278668726310        0.00000000000000D+000
 -0.625821331717327       0.779966448488364        0.00000000000000D+000
 -0.822296905793933       0.569058695322129        0.00000000000000D+000
 -0.953713306870443       0.300717356163965        0.00000000000000D+000


In [2]: import scipy

In [3]: ,scipy.io.read_array data.dat
------> scipy.io.read_array ("data.dat")
Out[3]:
array([[ 1.        ,  0.        ,  0.        ],
       [ 0.93211352,  0.36216624,  0.        ],
       [ 0.73767123,  0.6751601 ,  0.        ],
       [ 0.44307313,  0.89648547,  0.        ],
       [ 8.83176798,  0.99609236,  0.        ],
       [-0.14581942,  0.98931122,  0.        ],
       [-0.39126356,  0.92027867,  0.        ],
       [-0.62582133,  0.77996645,  0.        ],
       [-0.82229691,  0.5690587 ,  0.        ],
       [-0.95371331,  0.30071736,  0.        ]])

In [4]: data = _

In [5]: data[1,0]
Out[5]: 0.93211351977847301

In [6]: data[4,:]
Out[6]: array([ 8.83176798,  0.99609236,  0.        ])

In [7]: from Numeric import *

In [8]: sin(2*pi*data)
Out[8]:
array([[ -2.44921271e-16,   0.00000000e+00,   0.00000000e+00],
       [ -4.13726328e-01,   7.61766230e-01,   0.00000000e+00],
       [ -9.97001167e-01,  -8.91462758e-01,   0.00000000e+00],
       [  3.50103955e-01,  -6.05505553e-01,   0.00000000e+00],
       [ -8.70901144e-01,  -2.45499665e-02,   0.00000000e+00],
       [ -7.93300122e-01,  -6.71090900e-02,   0.00000000e+00],
       [ -6.31286730e-01,  -4.80218587e-01,   0.00000000e+00],
       [  7.10746430e-01,  -9.82326731e-01,   0.00000000e+00],
       [  8.98588241e-01,  -4.20420374e-01,   0.00000000e+00],
       [  2.86745429e-01,   9.49654034e-01,   0.00000000e+00]])

You just need to install scipy from http://scipy.org.  And you'll get a ton of
real numerical libraries to boot, which from the format of your data (fortran)
I suspect you'll need soon.

Best,

f.



From ianb at colorstudy.com  Sun Jul 20 18:29:52 2003
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: 20 Jul 2003 17:29:52 -0500
Subject: Possible use of Python for a voting machine demo project --
	your feedback requested
In-Reply-To: <P9DSa.111436$Io.9552373@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
References: <P9DSa.111436$Io.9552373@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <1058740192.28091.2169.camel@lothlorien>

On Sun, 2003-07-20 at 15:43, Alan Dechert wrote:
> In the world of voting technology experts, I'm known as the guy that has
> proposed to use commodity PCs as voting machines running open source
> software with a printer to generate the paper ballot.  While I have been
> pushing the idea since Dec of '00, I haven't gotten any project funded yet.
> Back then, I was just a crank with an idea.  Now people are starting to take
> it more seriously.  I have some computer scientists and some students
> interested in producing a demo of the system I have described.  Primarily,
> this demo is intended to introduce the idea to the public.  Lots of ideas
> for which language to use for the demo have been tossed around.  I would
> like to get some feedback on whether or not you think Python would be good
> for this and why.
> 
> This will be throw-away code.  It will be pure coincidence if we end up
> using any of it when the real [funded!] project gets underway.  We will be
> demonstrating to some reporters the look and feel of our voting machine --
> and by extension to the public, especially since we plan to have a demo on
> the web that anyone with an Internet connection can try out.  Some have
> suggested HTML or XML but I'm not sure this will give us fine enough control
> over the page layout.
> 
> Here are some requirements for the demo:
> 
> 1) The display will be for 1280 x 1024 resolution.  While other resolutions
> may be supported in the final product, the demo will only support this
> resolution (the large screen is a critical usability advantage).  Here is a
> mock up of the on-screen ballot image:
> 
> http://home.earthlink.net/~adechert/ballot-mockup3.gif
> 
> Pretty much, I want pixel-for-pixel control over what goes on the display.

If you really want pixel-for-pixel control, then SDL will provide this
for you.  Pygame (pygame.org) provides an interface to SDL, though it's
somewhat low-level, pyui (pyui.sf.net) is slightly higher-level, but
poorly documented and maybe not that helpful.  In particular, I'd be
concerned about text rendering, and then the consistent translation of
that to print.

PDF would be easier to generate, though I'm not sure how you would make
that interactive.  Reportlab generates PDFs nicely.  Perhaps it would be
possible to lay out the boxes accurately so you know where they are,
then let the PDF renderer fill in the text.  How exactly you would
render the PDF I'm not sure... though heck, it doesn't have to be that
interactive.  You could simply render it to images, and compose those
images to come up with the screen.  That's probably easier and a better
experience than allowing any change in flow or layout based on something
the user does (i.e., you wouldn't want a selection to take up more space
once selected, even if the text itself becomes larger).  Maybe there's
other rendering techniques you could use that I'm not aware of.

The interface looks really dense to me, though, while not being large
enough for common ballots anyway.  Once you add in judges, you're
getting a lot of options.  And the county commissioner input is way too
dense.  Also, I suspect that the entire ballot is way to dense to be
used with a touchscreen, where the accuracy of input isn't very good. 
You're going to have to plan on all votes being multi-page, and you
might as well just program for that.  The printout could still be single
page, but then it won't look like the ballot they filled out, though
that's probably fine.

I really don't know why everyone wants to use touchscreens in voting
machines.  I hate touch screens, they are a horrible input method. 
ATM-style input is much better -- real buttons lined up along the side
of the screen.  Very reliable, not just the hardware, but the accuracy
of input.  The only problem is when the buttons are misaligned, so it's
not clear how the screen selection maps to the buttons.  The only
advantage of touchscreens is they are somewhat more flexible, but that's
also their greatest flaw.

You could even fit those buttons only normal monitors.  The buttons will
be further away from the screen, but you can paint in strips on the
enclosure right up to the screen so that it is very clear how the
buttons correspond to the screen.  Even if the buttons were an inch from
the screen and raised up off the screen, the stripes would make it very
clear.

Anyway, I wish you luck -- we certainly need open voting systems.  The
current closed systems scare me.  





From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Jul 14 22:50:18 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 22:50:18 -0400
Subject: Stop Python from exiting upon error in Windows
References: <vh6jmv2f767h8b@corp.supernews.com> <n2o6hvcahk7dlmn9t26tvis8umnfg1tdeo@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3F136BEA.5B56562@engcorp.com>

Tom Plunket wrote:
> 
> Or- catch the error in your mainline, and do a sys.raw_input()
> call on exception.

Tom meant just "raw_input()", which is a builtin, rather than 
sys.raw_input which does not exist, of course.

To answer your question in the other reply, yes, you can
nest exceptions.  If you have a try/except and the raw_input
in the except, however, you won't see any exception traceback
printed at the console so you'll need something like the
traceback module and one of the functions from it, like
traceback.print_exc().

-Peter



From clifford.wells at comcast.net  Fri Jul 18 22:31:07 2003
From: clifford.wells at comcast.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: 18 Jul 2003 19:31:07 -0700
Subject: Threading Pool Event()
In-Reply-To: <ia1Sa.304$vD1.13822@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au>
References: <0tRRa.212$vD1.8077@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au>
	 <bf8ri5$cs7$1@panix1.panix.com> <NDZRa.273$vD1.11889@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au>
	 <ia1Sa.304$vD1.13822@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au>
Message-ID: <1058581867.24384.2928.camel@devilbox.homelinux.net>

On Fri, 2003-07-18 at 18:29, Graeme Matthew wrote:
> ok still a bit confused sorry .... first attempt at a thread pool
> 
> Am I correct in saying that each thread runs in a continious loop

Yes.

> each thread calls queue.get. The get method will block and not return
> anything until an item is placed into it. When an item is placed into
> it, one of the threads will get assinged a job i.e the first one that
> happens to be in use during the cycle ?

I think you have the idea, but I'm not sure (your terminology escapes me
a bit toward the end).  What happens is each thread blocks waiting for
something to be placed on the queue.  When something is put on the
queue, one of the available threads (i.e. one that is blocking on
queue.get() rather than processing a job).  Only a single thread will be
woken for each item that is put on the queue.  It isn't knowable which
thread that will be.

> The job is returned to the thread, it runs with the job and does all
> the processing then returns and calls queue.get again and waits for a
> job to become available ?

Yes.

> When placing a job via Queue.put() one must acquire a lock place it
> and then release it

No.  The locking semantics are internal to the Queue object.  Do not
concern yourself with it.  It simply works.  Do not attempt to put locks
around it.

> Am i aslo correct in saying that queue is actually doing the blocking
> and controls which thread gets the job ?

In a sense (that is, for practical purposes).  How it is done internally
by the interpreter isn't important.

> Lastly, sorry for all the questions, surely the CPU usage is the same
> when the queue is waiting for jobs and when the threads are polling as
> theyre all in one process anyway

The threads are asleep while waiting.  They don't consume any CPU.  The
queue doesn't "wait" for jobs (that is, it doesn't loop, poll or
otherwise consume any CPU time), when you call queue.put() it is a
method call on an object, not a thread.

> Am i getting this or am i way off :-)

Just a little way off ;)

Regards,

Cliff

-- 
My only regret is that I ever was born
                               -Swans





From skip at pobox.com  Tue Jul 15 15:52:10 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 14:52:10 -0500
Subject: Can't install csv parser
In-Reply-To: <MPG.197e17e35a78de759896ac@news.in.comcast.giganews.com>
References: <MPG.197b80c54e88b1489896a6@news.in.comcast.giganews.com>
        <3f11ba56$0$6532$afc38c87@sisyphus.news.be.easynet.net>
        <m3r84tivkn.fsf@ferret.object-craft.com.au>
        <MPG.197c88885d4542c09896a8@news.in.comcast.giganews.com>
        <c76ff6fc.0307141554.e915b0b@posting.google.com>
        <MPG.197e17e35a78de759896ac@news.in.comcast.giganews.com>
Message-ID: <16148.23402.184248.383806@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    bogal> I tried this first; went to the suggested alternative second.
    bogal> Here's what happens when I run setup.py:

    bogal> C:\Python22\Lib\site-packages\csv>
    bogal>     python.exe C:\PYTHON22\LIB\SITE-P~1\CSV\SETUP.PY

    bogal> usage: SETUP.PY [global_opts] cmd1 [cmd1_opts] [cmd2 [cmd2_opts] ...]
    bogal>    or: SETUP.PY --help [cmd1 cmd2 ...]
    bogal>    or: SETUP.PY --help-commands
    bogal>    or: SETUP.PY cmd --help

    bogal> error: no commands supplied

Setup.py needs to know what of several things you want to do (just build the
package, build and install the package, build a distribution, etc).  Try
this command:

    python.exe C:\PYTHON22\LIB\SITE-P~1\CSV\SETUP.PY install

That should do any necessary building and install all the files.

Skip




From tzot at sil-tec.gr  Tue Jul  8 12:47:18 2003
From: tzot at sil-tec.gr (Christos TZOTZIOY Georgiou)
Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 19:47:18 +0300
Subject: Shared vs static link performance hit --and Windows?
References: <k7clgvoqjur1f10mosue3os74vv7nd34hi@4ax.com> <mailman.1057672018.10107.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <6btlgvgjq48mbtmu097939dl1c1gmki0qd@4ax.com>

[I: statically-linked python is 25% faster than dynamically-linked on my
machine]

[Skip: explains that python possibly uses excessive function calls to
and fro shared libraries so that explains the difference]

Thanks, Skip; now if only someone more Windows-knowledgeable than me
could also comment on whether we could see a similar speed increase by
building a static Windows EXE...

I do have a computer with Visual Studio 6 available at work, but I don't
know much about VS[1] to answer this myself; I gave it a try, but I got
lost in the Project Settings and how to merge the pythoncore (the dll I
believe) and the python (the exe) projects.

[1] Although lately I did give a shot to compile a custom module for
haar image transforms following the directions in the docs; it was
trivial in Linux --kudos to all of you guys who worked on distutils--
and fairly easy on Windows, so I have both an .so and a .pyd with the
same functionality for my program...
-- 
TZOTZIOY, I speak England very best,
Microsoft Security Alert: the Matrix began as open source.



From zathras at thwackety.com  Wed Jul 16 09:00:06 2003
From: zathras at thwackety.com (Michael Sparks)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 14:00:06 +0100 (BST)
Subject: Python Quiz
In-Reply-To: <1058359673.3f154979ded2a@mcherm.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0307161350390.1098-100000@pingu.thwackety.com>

richardc writes:
> Im no expert but wouldnt you accept that Python has 'borrowed' FORTRAN's
> fixed format syntax.

On Wed, 16 Jul 2003, Michael Chermside wrote:
> Definitely NOT. Without addressing the question of HOW Python came by the
> idea of using indentation to indicate block structure, it clearly couldn't
> have been from Fortran, because what Python does and what Fortran does
> are COMPLETELY different.

Python is however pretty much peas in a pod with the way Occam uses
whitespace/indentation for structure & folding. Neither is in any way
close to the way Fortran uses it IMHO.


Michael.





From moo at sneakmail.zzn.com  Wed Jul  2 03:35:37 2003
From: moo at sneakmail.zzn.com (Mikko Ohtamaa)
Date: 2 Jul 2003 00:35:37 -0700
Subject: Assing a COM Interface to a Python object for callbacks
Message-ID: <26caea2b.0307012335.1d717429@posting.google.com>

Hi,

I am quite new to Python, PythonCom and COM generally. As a former
Java programmer, I have found Python's flexible ability to access
native Win32, especially COM, very comfortable. However, there is
quite little on-line documentation and examples available about
PythonCOM. The only good sources I have found were the sample chapter
from Mark Hammond's book and some decades old PowerPoint show.

I have a following problem:

I am trying to do XML Schema validation using MSXML SAX parser through
PythonCOM API.

MSXML offers two different interfaces for SAX: One for VB and one for
C++. C++ one is named ISAXXMLReader and VB one is named
IVBSAXXMLReader. I haven't found what is the basic difference between
these interfaces though I have carefully read MSXML SDK documentation.
I assume IVBSAXXMLReader might have some IDispatch functionality which
is requirement for PythonCom(?).

The problem is that SAX Parser requires COM interface for callback.
You must assign a COM interface as a handler to the parser. When the
parsing begins, the handler calls this interface.

saxReader.errorHandler = myErrorHandler <-- COM Interface

I do not know how to turn Python class into COM interface on the fly.

I have managed to open the C++ version ISAXXMLReader of the interface.
I have NOT succeed to do this for VB versioon IVBSAXXMLReader, because
I do not know how it happens. I assume you have to use
CoCreateInstance, but it returns "Class not registered", see the
sample below.

After opening ISAXXMLReader I have not been able to pass COM error
handler for it. I have reasons not to go through full process
registering my own error handler as a COM server into Windows registry
and create it using win32com.client.Dispatch("Python.MyErrorHandler").
Is there a way to create COM server on the fly and get the COM handle
for it? I have been trying to read win32.client and win32.server
Python sources and even PythonCOM C sources, but unfortunately my
skillz are not 1337 enough to see the big picture.

How to assign a COM Interface for a Python object? It goes somehow
through policies and wrapping, right? Unfortunately every approach I
have tried end to an error saying my wrapper IPyDispatch cannot be
used as ISAXErrorHandler.

Mikko Ohtamaa
Student of Industrial Engineering & Management
Oulu, Finland

Sample code:

class MySaxErrorHandler:

    # Some random stuff in stucked into this class
    # hoping it would help policies & wrapping
    _reg_progid_ = "Art2ComponentValidator.SaxErrorHandler"
    _reg_clsid_ = "{a60511c4-ccf5-479e-98a3-dc8dc545b7d0}"
    _reg_clsctx_ = "INPROC_SERVER"
    _com_interfaces = [ "{a60511c4-ccf5-479e-98a3-dc8dc545b7d0}" ]
    _query_interface_ = "{a60511c4-ccf5-479e-98a3-dc8dc545b7d0}"
    _public_methods_ = [ "error", "fatalError", "ignorableWarning" ]

    # A piece of VB sample:
    #Private Sub IVBSAXErrorHandler_error(ByVal oLocator As
SXML2.IVBSAXLocator,

strErrorMessage As String, ByVal nErrorCode As Long)
    #   WriteErrorToResults "Error", strErrorMessage, _
    #         nErrorCode, oLocator.lineNumber, oLocator.columnNumber
    #End Sub

    def error(oLocator, strErrorMessage, nErrorCode):
        print strErrorMessage

    def fatalError(oLocator, strErrorMessage, nErrorCode):
       print strErrorMessage

    def ignorableWarning(oLocator, strErrorMessage, nErrorCode):
        print strErrorMessage

def saxtest():

    # SAXXmlReader MIDL: a4f96ed0-f829-476e-81c0-cdc7bd2a0802
    # sax error handler: a60511c4-ccf5-479e-98a3-dc8dc545b7d0
    # ivbsaxerrorhandler: d963d3fe-173c-4862-9095-b92f66995f52
    # ivbsaxxmlreader: 8c033caa-6cd6-4f73-b728-4531af74945f
 
    # test path switcher
    useISAX = 0

    if useISAX:
        # Use c++ version ISAXXMLReader
        saxReader = win32com.client.Dispatch("Msxml2.SAXXMLReader.4.0")
        errorHandler = MySaxErrorHandler()

        # ISAXErrorHandler: a60511c4-ccf5-479e-98a3-dc8dc545b7d0

        iid = pywintypes.IID("{a60511c4-ccf5-479e-98a3-dc8dc545b7d0}")

        # What I should do instead of this?
        saxReader.errorHandler =
win32com.server.util.wrap(errorHandler, iid)

        # Following error:
        #  File "C:\Python22\Lib\site-packages\win32com\server\util.py",
line 28, in wrap
        #    ob = ob.QueryInterface(iid)       # Ask the PyIDispatch
if it supports it?
        # pywintypes.com_error: (-2147467262, 'No such interface
supported', None, None)

    else:
        # Use VB version, IVBSAXXMLreader
        clsid = pywintypes.IID("{8c033caa-6cd6-4f73-b728-4531af74945f}")
        iid = clsid
        create_as = win32com.client.pythoncom.CLSCTX_INPROC_SERVER
        iface = win32com.client.pythoncom.CoCreateInstance(clsid,
None, create_as, iid)
        # pywintypes.com_error: (-2147221164, 'Class not registered',
None, None)



From nospam at mega-nerd.com  Sun Jul 13 22:50:23 2003
From: nospam at mega-nerd.com (Erik de Castro Lopo)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 02:50:23 GMT
Subject: AIFC (Python and audio files.)
References: <bet1av$13f5q$1@swen.emba.uvm.edu> <3F1219D7.829F2F43@mega-nerd.com>
Message-ID: <3F121A64.4127BA22@mega-nerd.com>

Erik de Castro Lopo wrote:
> 
> AIFC files contain digitally sampled sound, much like the data
> stored on a CDROM.

Sorry, I meant like the audio data stored on an AUDIO CD, not
a CDROM.

Erik
-- 
+-----------------------------------------------------------+
  Erik de Castro Lopo  nospam at mega-nerd.com (Yes it's valid)
+-----------------------------------------------------------+
"Don't be fooled by NT/Exchange propaganda. M$ Exchange is 
just plain broken and NT cannot handle the sustained load 
of a high-volume remote mail server"  
-- Eric S. Raymond in the Fetchmail FAQ



From shane at zope.com  Fri Jul 25 18:39:25 2003
From: shane at zope.com (Shane Hathaway)
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 18:39:25 -0400
Subject: Static typing
In-Reply-To: <60FB8BB7F0EFC7409B75EEEC13E2019202CE4738@admin56.narex.com>
References: <60FB8BB7F0EFC7409B75EEEC13E2019202CE4738@admin56.narex.com>
Message-ID: <3F21B19D.4040502@zope.com>

Bjorn Pettersen wrote:
>>From: Shane Hathaway [mailto:shane at zope.com] 
>>def foo(bar, baz):
>>     assert isinstance(bar, int)
>>     assert isinstance(baz, str)
> 
> [...]
> 
> ...which means you can't use foo with unicode strings or UserStrings,

That's right, and that's intentional.  The function is designed to work 
only with byte arrays.  This invites someone who wants to pass a unicode 
object to first verify that the function will actually work properly 
with unicode.

> etc., etc. This is C programming in Python, ugly, inefficient,
> inflexible, and un-Pythonic.

It is highly useful documentation.  There is nothing inefficient about 
it.  It is as flexible as the programmer makes it.  It is quite 
Pythonic, although you should only declare the types of arguments when 
the type matters.

I should say that in actual practice, I haven't used isinstance() 
checks.  Instead, I've been checking against Zope interfaces.

def foo(conn):
   assert IDatabaseConnection.isImplementedBy(conn)

Shane





From gherron at islandtraining.com  Fri Jul 25 09:55:59 2003
From: gherron at islandtraining.com (Gary Herron)
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 06:55:59 -0700
Subject: decimal to binary
In-Reply-To: <200307250653.18754.gherron@islandtraining.com>
References: <Dh9Ua.13488$Df5.327750@news1.tin.it> <200307250653.18754.gherron@islandtraining.com>
Message-ID: <200307250655.59854.gherron@islandtraining.com>

On Friday 25 July 2003 05:21 am, manuel wrote:
> How to convert a decimal to binary ?
>
> thx,
>
>           Manuel

We probably need more information than that to answer your question.
For instance statement

  x = 123

converts the decimal number represented by the decimal digits 123 into
binary form and stores it in variable x. Of course you have no access
to the binary digits as

  print x

converts back to decimal to print "123"

So what is it you really want?

Gary Herron






From warlock at eskimo.com  Wed Jul 23 13:00:49 2003
From: warlock at eskimo.com (Jim Richardson)
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 10:00:49 -0700
Subject: Shallow vs Deep copies [was Re:  python assignment]
References: <fbf8d8f2.0307221659.1dd1ac77@posting.google.com> <mailman.1058928524.20417.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1jr2v-vd.ln1@grendel.myth>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Tue, 22 Jul 2003 22:46:56 -0400,
 Tim Peters <tim.one at comcast.net> wrote:
 
> The rule that the object in question is never copied.  There are no
> exceptions to this.  Copying an object requires invoking some method
> of the object, or applying some function to the object.  For example,
> d.copy() returns a (shallow) copy of a dict d, and L[:] returns a
> (shallow) copy of a list L.


To clarify for me please.

A shallow copy of an object, returns an object that contains references
to objects within the copied object, yes? 

so a list consisting of [1,2,a,"a"] when copied shallowly, will return
exactly that, but when copied deeply, will reture [1,2,"whatever a
points to","a"] yes? 

If I understand the above correctly.... how deep does a deep copy go?
can you vary the depth? Or is it binary, shallow or deep? 

Thanks.

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-- 
Jim Richardson         http://www.eskimo.com/~warlock

Linux, because eventually, you grow up enough to be trusted with a fork()



From exarkun at intarweb.us  Sat Jul  5 13:21:40 2003
From: exarkun at intarweb.us (Jp Calderone)
Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2003 13:21:40 -0400
Subject: tp_base, tp_basesize, and __slots__ instance __class__ reassignment
Message-ID: <20030705172121.GA24165@intarweb.us>

  In trying to update some code built on top of reload(), I've hit a point
of confusion in how it is determined whether or not __class__ is allowed to
be rebound.

  Consider, for example:

    >>> class Foo(object):
    ...     __slots__ = 'a', 'b'
    ... 
    >>> class Bar(object):
    ...     __slots__ = 'a', 'b'
    ... 
    >>> f = Foo()
    >>> f.__class__ = Bar
    Traceback (most recent call last):
      File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
    TypeError: __class__ assignment: 'Bar' object layout differs from 'Foo'

  The cause of this particular error does not actually seem to be that the
object layouts of Bar and Foo are incompatible, but rather that the object
layouts of _object_ and Foo are incompatible.

  I've tracked down the point of rejection to same_slots_added
(Objects/typeobject.c:2347 or thereabouts):

    static int
    same_slots_added(PyTypeObject *a, PyTypeObject *b)
    {  
       PyTypeObject *base = a->tp_base;
       int size;

       if (base != b->tp_base)
          return 0;
       if (equiv_structs(a, base) && equiv_structs(b, base))
          return 1;
       size = base->tp_basicsize;
       if (a->tp_dictoffset == size && b->tp_dictoffset == size)
          size += sizeof(PyObject *);
       if (a->tp_weaklistoffset == size && b->tp_weaklistoffset == size)
          size += sizeof(PyObject *);
       return size == a->tp_basicsize && size == b->tp_basicsize;
    }

  I do not understand why the final line is comparing size against each of a
and b's tp_basicsize, rather than perfoming some comparison between a and b
directly.

  Can anyone enlighten me?

  Jp

-- 
Where a calculator on the ENIAC is equipped with 18,000 vacuum tubes and
weighs 30 tons, computers in the future may have only 1,000 vacuum tubes and
weigh only 1.5 tons.    -- Popular Mechanics, March 1949




From max at alcyone.com  Mon Jul 14 03:10:18 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 00:10:18 -0700
Subject: Qualified appology (was Re: anything like C++ references?)
References: <b8c3hvsesjoumiboobml3nsnajtha99mp1@4ax.com> <mailman.1058129901.28248.python-list@python.org> <plk3hv0s1m2egf4s34jo6vjedk0q8r2mu9@4ax.com> <m365m6ul5c.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <1br3hv4434gn7p2pdg1bgtg8dtlak3id3s@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3F12575A.9218496E@alcyone.com>

Stephen Horne wrote:

> All variables are implemented as references, but that is not the same
> as saying that all values are references.

Right.  And this is an extremely important point in Python.  Variables
are bindings of names to objects.  Objects are entities in and of
themselves.  The object is what is mutable or immutable, not the name. 
Names are transitory.

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ The little I know, I owe to my ignorance.
\__/  Sacha Guitry



From davecook at nowhere.net  Sat Jul  5 17:03:05 2003
From: davecook at nowhere.net (David M. Cook)
Date: Sat, 05 Jul 2003 21:03:05 GMT
Subject: Red Hat 9, Python and Glade - a mixure not working?
References: <c7427279.0307050724.147536d1@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <d2HNa.427458$3n5.51831@news2.central.cox.net>

In article <c7427279.0307050724.147536d1 at posting.google.com>, Hans Deragon
wrote:

> def on_button4_clicked(source=None, event=None):

You should exit the mainloop here:

        gtk.main_quit()

>   sys.exit();
> 
> gtk.glade.XML('project3.glade')

Should be

xml = gtk.glade.XML('project3.glade')

> xml.autoconnect({
>   'on_button4_clicked': on_button4_clicked
> })

Or you can just use

xml.signal_autoconnect(locals())

See glade_demo.py in the /usr/share/doc/pygtk2-1.99.14/examples/glade/.

For more info on pygtk see

http://www.async.com.br/faq/pygtk/index.py?req=index
http://www.moeraki.com/pygtkreference/pygtk2reference/

Dave Cook



From hokiegal99 at hotmail.com  Sun Jul  6 20:31:15 2003
From: hokiegal99 at hotmail.com (hokiegal99)
Date: Sun, 06 Jul 2003 20:31:15 -0400
Subject: Using Loops to track user input
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1057535661.11061.python-list@python.org>
References: <bea0p6$17f$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <mailman.1057535661.11061.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <beaeoj$jo4$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>

Perl's motto is "there's more than one way to do it," right? Well, after 
reading all of these responses, I think Python could make the same 
claim. Thanks again guys!


Bob Gailer wrote:

> Not to neglect the 1-liner:
> 
> import operator; reduce(operator.add,[int(raw_input("Number>")) for i in 
> range(10)])
> 
> Bob Gailer
> bgailer at alum.rpi.edu
> 303 442 2625




From pythonguy at Hotpop.com  Mon Jul 21 10:05:01 2003
From: pythonguy at Hotpop.com (Anand Pillai)
Date: 21 Jul 2003 07:05:01 -0700
Subject: How to save web pages for offline reading?
References: <cb035744.0307210131.5cfbc890@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <84fc4588.0307210605.14f00cc0@posting.google.com>

Hi

I am the developer and maintainer of 'HarvestMan', a program which
does exactly what you want ( and more ). It is an offline webcrawler
written completely in Python. It is currently in 1.1 beta version.

 Dont bother to write code yourselves. HarvestMan supports HTTP/FTP/HTTPS
protocols and works across proxies and can crawl intranets. There is
documentation available for its use and I give free support, as much as
my time permits me :->

The freshmeat project page is here: 
http://www.freshmeat.net/projects/harvestman

Give it a try and let me know your experience.

Thanks

~Anand 

hwlgw at hotmail.com (Will Stuyvesant) wrote in message news:<cb035744.0307210131.5cfbc890 at posting.google.com>...
> I am trying to download pages from Python, for offline reading.  This
> to save telephone costs :-)
> 
> If a page contains something like
> <link rel='stylesheet' href='../pythonware.css' type='text/css' />
> and I use fp=urllib.urlopen(...) and then fp.read(), I get the HTML
> but not the CSS.  As a result the page looks bad when reading offline.
>  How to solve this?  Also the .GIF's in a page would be nice, but this
> is less important and also would take more time to download.



From sross at connectmail.carleton.ca  Thu Jul 10 13:50:41 2003
From: sross at connectmail.carleton.ca (Sean Ross)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 13:50:41 -0400
Subject: for in sequence problem... possible new operator to add to python
References: <3a8fc6c5.0307100816.634c83a3@posting.google.com> <5_gPa.8878$ru2.867718@news20.bellglobal.com> <bek7so$man$1@panix2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <fGhPa.8899$ru2.872296@news20.bellglobal.com>

> Ick.  At the very least, return self.itervalues()

Sure.
I was either unaware of itervalues() or my awareness of it had yet to
register (now it has, so, thanks).





From cybersamurai at mac.com  Sun Jul 13 16:53:29 2003
From: cybersamurai at mac.com (cybersamurai at mac.com)
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 17:53:29 -0300
Subject: py2exe
Message-ID: <0E95BB27-B574-11D7-A515-000393B10A78@mac.com>

I am develop a application with wxpython, pycrypto, and Python 2.2, I 
need know if py2exe get all modules needed for my application work 
without install any application stead one exec file of my application 
and without I select manually this modules?





From jjl at pobox.com  Thu Jul 31 13:34:09 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 31 Jul 2003 18:34:09 +0100
Subject: Python's biggest compromises
References: <899f842.0307310555.56134f71@posting.google.com> <viibo7t45unv83@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <87el06d2i6.fsf@pobox.com>

"John Roth" <newsgroups at jhrothjr.com> writes:
[...]
> That said, I've come to the conclusion that the editor should take
> care of these things for you. If you prefer a brace free notation,
> you should be able to tell your editor to present the program to you
> that way. If you prefer braces, then it should be able do that for
> you as well. That kind of stylistic thing doesn't belong in the
> language.

100% agreed: once-and-only-once dictates this.  Manually maintaining
both braces and indentation (as in C, with some editors) is Just Plain
Bad for this reason.


> In fact, if I didn't have to deal with the braces, I think I'd come
> around to the view that the text should have them. Explicit is
> better than implicit,

At least in the absence of proper research results, I think this part
of it *is* religious.  To some people, it's obvious that whitespace is
better on the eyes.  To others, it's obvious that whitespace + braces
is better on the eyes.  One group may well be wrong <0.5 wink>.

This argument (that braces are another visual cue which make code
easier to read -- provided that they're automatically maintained in
sync with the indentation), is the only argument against
pure-whitespace that has ever made any sense to me.  Irrespective of
whether you pick whitespace or braces as the thing the compiler takes
notice of, though, the optimal solution probably still involves an
editor that supports showing/hiding braces, so the syntax is
(theoretically!) a non-issue.  In practice, editors don't seem to
currently support showing and hiding braces automatically.  At least
editors do get you out of most mistakes caused by brace-y languages.

Of course, whitespace *is* still superior because the storage format
doesn't duplicate state -- so people with poor editors can't produce
ambiguous code :-) (remember code can be ambiguous to *people* even if
it isn't to a compiler).  OTOH, *Python's* scheme is inferior to a
pure-space-character indentation scheme because off the tab-vs.-space
issue :-(


> and there are a few things that the
> automatic indentation makes rather difficult in the design area.
[...]

What are those things??


John



From kmj9907 at cs.rit.edu  Tue Jul 29 20:27:16 2003
From: kmj9907 at cs.rit.edu (Keith Jones)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 00:27:16 GMT
Subject: PyQt Help and Advice
References: <bg636k$408g$1@netnews.upenn.edu> <mailman.1059520783.12994.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2003.07.30.00.31.50.414157@cs.rit.edu>

On Wed, 30 Jul 2003 00:18:32 +0100, Phil Thompson wrote:
> 
> To correct one misconception...
> 
> PyQt was first released on November 1st 1998. There have been 34 releases in 
> all. The next release, including support for Qt v3.2.0, will be around August 
> 12th. It isn't new.
> 
> Phil


Phil,

Any idea when Qt3.2 will have noncommercial support in windows?



From staschuk at telusplanet.net  Thu Jul 24 23:59:12 2003
From: staschuk at telusplanet.net (Steven Taschuk)
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 21:59:12 -0600
Subject: python assignment
In-Reply-To: <fbf8d8f2.0307241825.bd3b315@posting.google.com>; from danbmil99@yahoo.com on Thu, Jul 24, 2003 at 07:25:36PM -0700
References: <mailman.1058992140.17079.python-list@python.org> <fbf8d8f2.0307241825.bd3b315@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20030724215912.A1193@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>

Quoth dan:
  [...]
> but again the +[] looks funky in the morning light.  Can I always
> assume that an operation of this sort will return a new object, even
> if it has no effect on one of the operands?

Afaik it's not documented, but I think you may safely assume that
arithmetic on lists will always produce a new list, even in such
cases as
    a_list + []
    1*a_list
Having such expressions possibly return the existing object is a
harmless optimization for immutable types, but would be madness
for mutable objects such as lists.  Guido is not mad.  (A little
eccentric sometimes, occasionally silly, and noticeably Dutch, but
not mad.)

> I suppose a clearer fix would be v[x] = copy.copy(temp), eh?

Yes, that, or
    v[x] = list(temp)
or
    v[x] = temp[:]
according to taste.  The latter is most common, I think.

-- 
Steven Taschuk                               staschuk at telusplanet.net
"[T]rue greatness is when your name is like ampere, watt, and fourier
 -- when it's spelled with a lower case letter."      -- R.W. Hamming




From piet at cs.uu.nl  Sat Jul  5 10:46:16 2003
From: piet at cs.uu.nl (Piet van Oostrum)
Date: 05 Jul 2003 16:46:16 +0200
Subject: Newbie: Tkinter and macPython
References: <f9b7c11d.0306281825.5cf24367@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <wzadbt9glj.fsf@nono.cs.uu.nl>

>>>>> gtewalt at earthlink.net (gt) (GT) wrote:

GT> I'm waffling between Ruby, and Python as a programming
GT> language.
GT> I borrowed a friends book on Ruby, and have played with 
GT> it a bit.
GT> I went by the library to check out 'Learning Python'
GT> but i was too late, the library had closed already...

GT> Anyway, to the point.
GT> I downloaded macPython for OSX, and was trying to get
GT> a simpe Tkinter example to work form Lundh's tutorial,
GT> I think it was.
GT> Bu I get an error...

I guess you have downloaded a Python installation with proper Tkinter
support. I had that also a few weeks ago. I installed the new 2.3b2 from
source and it works.
-- 
Piet van Oostrum <piet at cs.uu.nl>
URL: http://www.cs.uu.nl/~piet [PGP]
Private email: P.van.Oostrum at hccnet.nl



From Aaron.Hawley at uvm.edu  Mon Jul 28 18:26:22 2003
From: Aaron.Hawley at uvm.edu (Aaron S. Hawley)
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 18:26:22 -0400
Subject: Inheriting (subclass) of dict data attribute (copying)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.A41.4.55.0307271708520.39048@elk.uvm.edu>
References: <Pine.A41.4.55.0307271708520.39048@elk.uvm.edu>
Message-ID: <Pine.A41.4.55.0307281821160.98256@gnu.uvm.edu>

On Sun, 27 Jul 2003, Aaron S. Hawley wrote:

> [What] Would be the most obvious (best in idiom) to overwrite the
> dictionary of my derived dict class?  The old school way is obvious to
> me.
>
> TIA, /a
>
> #!/usr/bin/env python
>
> from UserDict import UserDict
>
> class Old_Chickens(UserDict): ## old school
>     def __init__(self, chickens):
>         self.set_chickens(chickens)
>     def set_chickens(self, chickens):
>         self.data = chickens
>
> class New_Chickens(dict): ## new school
>     def __init__(self, chickens):
>         self.set_chickens(chickens)
>     def set_chickens(self, chickens):
>         self = dict.__init__(self, chickens)
>
>
> new_chickens = New_Chickens({'white': 12, 'brown': 8})
> print new_chickens['white']
>
> old_chickens = Old_Chickens({'white': 12, 'brown': 8})
> print old_chickens['white']

this would probably be fine:

#!/usr/bin/env python

from UserDict import UserDict

class Old_Chickens(UserDict): ## old school
    def __init__(self, chickens):
        UserDict.__init__(self) #FIX: be sure to call the base __init__
        self.set_chickens(chickens)
    def set_chickens(self, chickens):
        self.data = chickens

class New_Chickens(dict): ## new school
    def __init__(self, chickens):
        dict.__init__(self) #FIX: again, be sure to call the base __init__
        self.set_chickens(chickens)
    def set_chickens(self, chickens):
        dict.__init__(self, chickens) #FIX: you need only recall __init__

...

try reading the "Unifying types and class in Python 2.2" before posting
a question about subclassing types:

http://www.python.org/2.2/descrintro.html



From max at nowhere.com  Tue Jul 22 15:32:00 2003
From: max at nowhere.com (max4)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 19:32:00 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: wxpython display jpg in a frame
Message-ID: <Xns93C3E5CBB1F33maxnowherecom@212.68.193.222>

hello
i would like to know if there is a good tutorial about how to do this
or if someone could explain

thank you

[ i want to add a jpg to an existing about dialog]



From mis6 at pitt.edu  Fri Jul 18 09:02:59 2003
From: mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato)
Date: 18 Jul 2003 06:02:59 -0700
Subject: [development doc updates]
References: <20030715221007.07C7A18F01B@grendel.zope.com> <mailman.1058521589.11837.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <2259b0e2.0307180502.4951656b@posting.google.com>

Andy Jewell <andy at wild-flower.co.uk> wrote in message news:<mailman.1058521589.11837.python-list at python.org>...

> do the new resolution rules only apply to "New Style Classes" ?
 
Yes. See http://www.python.org/2.3/mro.html

          Michele



From ianb at colorstudy.com  Sat Jul 12 14:56:21 2003
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: 12 Jul 2003 13:56:21 -0500
Subject: new in town
In-Reply-To: <xBYPa.418026$3C2.11372267@news3.calgary.shaw.ca>
References: <AeVPa.445271$Vi5.11496890@news1.calgary.shaw.ca>
	 <mailman.1058024839.27499.python-list@python.org>
	 <xBYPa.418026$3C2.11372267@news3.calgary.shaw.ca>
Message-ID: <1058036181.28466.102.camel@lothlorien>

On Sat, 2003-07-12 at 13:39, Elaine Jackson wrote:
> As comforting as it is to know that there are "several ways of doing this", I'd
> be even happier if I knew the name of just one of those ways. The FAQ searcher
> doesn't seem to understand lengthy explanations and hand-waving.

Then maybe the better answer would be: Python can be compiled into a
Windows executable for distribution, but it cannot be compiled to
improve speed.  If you have performance issues there are a multitude of
solutions (as in any language), but don't expect to have problems until
you actually see a problem.  Usually Python performance is entirely
adequate.

  Ian






From rjhiii2002 at yahoo.com  Mon Jul 28 21:02:50 2003
From: rjhiii2002 at yahoo.com (Robert Hathaway)
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 01:02:50 GMT
Subject: Comp.Object FAQ - Version II Beta - Latest Object Oriented Resource - Please Participate!
Message-ID: <_IjVa.60532$852.17419@twister.nyc.rr.com>

                     COMP.OBJECT FAQ
               Version II Beta now Available
              http://www.objectfaq.com/oofaq2
==================================================
- Latest Important Information on Object Technology - What's New Page
    - What professionals *must keep up on* in rapidly changing environment
    - Available on Homepage, email notification on updates now available
- Good Resource Site - Latest in Object Technology
- Complete Coverage of Object Orientation
- Up to date on Java, C++, .net (more C# soon)
- Runs on J2EE/EJB site, very cool running examples
    - Participate in new OO Survey (J2EE/EJB impl) - Real-Time Results
    - Survey soon canonical example of J2EE/OO Arch/Design patterns

What's New:
    0.9   What is Open Source Software?   (And where to get best OO)
    0.10  What are the Major new Object Oriented Technologies?
    0.11  What are Web Services?
    0.12  What is available on Software Architectures?

The comp.object FAQ, at one time the most up to date resource on object
technology anywhere, is back in business.  A new beta site has gone up
hosted on the open source JBOSS J2EE/EJB platform and all are invited
to join in and take a look.  A new survey on object technology
is available for those who logon, results are presented in real-time.
New surveys, information of greatest interest to those in OO, and new
examples and patterns are available and much more new material is
forthcoming.  New summaries on J2EE, .net, Web Services, and open
source, all rapidly changing and critical to keep up on by professionals,
are available and examples of all, complete with design documentation
will be available shortly, including those now running on the site.

A new summary 'cheat sheet' of the GOF patterns, which can help to learn
all of them and when to use them in a glance - will be available within a
week, and a summary and comparison matrix of new architectural styles,
approaches, and patterns (yes, even including RUP and XP) will follow and
provide an opportunity to see all of the new software architecture methods
at a glance.

Please take a look at the new Object FAQ and participate in the latest
survey, by doing so you and the entire OO community will benefit by seeing
the results. The first survey is a beta test, more interesting surveys
will be available shortly, 1 per month on topics we all need to keep up to
date on.  Feedback is most welcome.  I'd like to think the comp.object
FAQ, one of the first documents up on the Web, is the best FAQ around and
with your participation will stay that way.

Best Regards!
Bob Hathaway

Object FAQ Maintainer
rjh at objectfaq.com







From tadin_antispam at cirus.dhz.hr  Thu Jul 17 04:15:28 2003
From: tadin_antispam at cirus.dhz.hr (Marijan)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 09:15:28 +0100
Subject: Jython classpath question
References: <pan.2003.07.17.02.29.12.502474@removme.bom.gov.au>
Message-ID: <bf5pg2$6bru$1@as201.hinet.hr>

No it is not true. If you can access your class from java, in jar file
or not, (it has to be in the classpath), you can access it from jython.
I've been playing with jython and java a while ago, but I can remember I
had to do a little trying out, before I figured out how to access some
java class. As far as I can remember you can have more java classes in
one *.class file, so it is possible that you have to write:

import classfilename.classname

or similar, but do not blame me if I am wrong here, as far as I can
remember I had to to some trying out in this direction.

There is also a jython mailing list, and two books about jython.


"Tennessee James Leeuwenburg" <t.leeuwenburg at removme.bom.gov.au> wrote
in message news:pan.2003.07.17.02.29.12.502474 at removme.bom.gov.au...
> Hi all,
>
> Sorry for the newb question, but Googling and FAQing didn't work. Is
it
> correct that Jython can only access Java classes which are inside JAR
> archives in the JYTHON_HOME directory? IT doesn't seem to be
documented. I
> ask because I want to do groovy prototyping using Jython, and save
myself
> a lot of coding overhead to try something a little out-of-the-box.
>
> I have a working directory where all my code lives, and because my app
is
> under rapid development, I would prefer to avoid creating a JAR file
every
> time I want to do some Python scripting?
>
> What do people suggest I do?
>
> Thanks,
> -Tennessee




From max at alcyone.com  Thu Jul  3 14:18:48 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 11:18:48 -0700
Subject: python 2.3b[12]
References: <mailman.1057185306.22713.python-list@python.org> <3F037015.3D6D7034@alcyone.com> <200307031200.25633.drlinux@columbus.rr.com> <mailman.1057252628.24142.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3F047388.6702AB8D@alcyone.com>

Dave Reed wrote:

> Still get 2.3b1.
> 
> Here's the file size of the Python-2.3b2.tgz file: 8421285
> 
> Is that correct?

You can look on the python.org Web site and check this for yourself.

If you didn't uninstall the beta 1 and are installing the beta 2 into a
_different prefix_, it's almost certainly the case that what you're
seeing is simply contamination.  Delete the old beta before installing
the new one.

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ To love without criticism is to be betrayed.
\__/  Djuna Barnes



From jjl at pobox.com  Sat Jul 26 19:43:59 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 27 Jul 2003 00:43:59 +0100
Subject: How to detect typos in Python programs
References: <ZPaUa.6$gZ.133@news.oracle.com> <3F214977.AEB088C8@engcorp.com> <x+VI/ks/K/yd089yn@the-wire.com> <HigUa.9$gZ.31@news.oracle.com>
Message-ID: <877k64c0qo.fsf@pobox.com>

Manish Jethani <manish.j at gmx.net> writes:
[...]
> > The proposed typo catcher would probably catch a typo like
> > 
> >         sys.edit (5)    # finger didn't get off home row
> > 
> > but it probably would *NOT* catch
> > 
> >         sys.exit (56)   # wide finger mashed two keys
> 
> 1)  That's in a different class of typos.  Such things can't be
> auto-detected in any language.  It will probably require close
> examination by the human who wrote it in the first place, or
> someone who has been debugging it.

That was, indeed, precisely the point that was being made.  Tests can
catch these, static type analysis can't.


> 2)  No on calls sys.exit() like that.  5, or 56, is probably a
> constant defined somewhere (where such typos are easier to spot).

Yes.  Do you have a point?


John



From mcfletch at rogers.com  Sat Jul 19 20:12:36 2003
From: mcfletch at rogers.com (Mike C. Fletcher)
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 20:12:36 -0400
Subject: properties + types, implementing meta-class desciptors elegantly?
In-Reply-To: <bfcl87$6jb$1@panix1.panix.com>
References: <mailman.1058532630.7342.python-list@python.org> <mailman.1058629890.30475.python-list@python.org> <bfc82v$hm8$0@216.39.172.122> <mailman.1058654317.6488.python-list@python.org> <bfcl87$6jb$1@panix1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <3F19DE74.6020009@rogers.com>

Aahz wrote:

>In article <mailman.1058654317.6488.python-list at python.org>,
>Mike C. Fletcher <mcfletch at rogers.com> wrote:
>  
>
>>Nope, I'm trying to make meta-classes which have rich properties.  The 
>>particular project is a plug-in system, where the classes (the 
>>metaclass-instances) want to have all sorts of rich metadata associated 
>>with them in a way which meshes with the rest of the system (i.e. using 
>>a descriptor-based introspection mechanism).
>>...
>>    
>>
>
>Keeping in mind that I'm really not following this discussion all that
>closely (because metaclasses give me headaches), are you trying to make
>a *metaclass* that has properties or a *metaclass instance* (i.e. a
>class) that has properties?
>  
>
Just the meta-class instances (classes).  Wasn't sufficiently precise in 
my description, the properties are normally declared in the meta-class, 
but they are actually properties of the meta-class instances.

Sorry about that,
Mike

_______________________________________
  Mike C. Fletcher
  Designer, VR Plumber, Coder
  http://members.rogers.com/mcfletch/







From paul_rudin at scientia.com  Thu Jul 10 09:28:42 2003
From: paul_rudin at scientia.com (Paul Rudin)
Date: 10 Jul 2003 14:28:42 +0100
Subject: Deleting specific characters from a string
References: <begfb3$7j6$1@online.de> <3F0C851C.4000500@livinglogic.de> <3F0C8AC3.5010304@dadsetan.com> <mailman.1057789156.27025.python-list@python.org> <v26Pa.3428$o86.363@news1.central.cox.net> <uu19uvdy7.fsf@scientia.com>
Message-ID: <ufzlev7cl.fsf@scientia.com>

>>>>> "Paul" == Paul Rudin <paul_rudin at scientia.com> writes:


    > r= reduce(lambda x,y: x+'|'+y, c,'')[1:]

It occurs to me that this isn't what you want if c contains special
regexp chararacters so really it should be:

r= reduce(lambda x,y: re.escape(x)+'|'+re.escape(y), c,'')[1:]

    > So putting it all together as an alternative version of your
    > fuction:


    > !!warning - untested code!!

    > import re

    > def stringReplace(s,c): 
    >    r= reduce(lambda x,y: x+'|'+y, c,'')[1:]
        
       r= reduce(lambda x,y: re.escape(x)+'|'+re.escape(y), c,'')[1:]    

    >    return re.compile(r).sub('',s)



From jocsch at phreaker.net  Sun Jul  6 16:00:59 2003
From: jocsch at phreaker.net (Markus Joschko)
Date: Sun, 06 Jul 2003 22:00:59 +0200
Subject: Search for mapping solution
References: <be9t66$2otne$1@ID-47851.news.dfncis.de> <3F087E85.9D8018E9@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <be9vng$2ro8d$1@ID-47851.news.dfncis.de>

> 
> Python 2.2.3 (#42, May 30 2003, 18:12:08) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on
> win32
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>>> lines = [['fred','333','0,10'],['sam','444','1'],['fred','333','0,50']]
>>>> d = dict([(x[0], x[2]) for x in lines])
>>>> d
> {'sam': '1', 'fred': '0,50'}

fred should be 0,60. The 3rd column should be summarized.


> 
> OK, I'll write and maintain a 1000-line perl program as penance ...
> 
> sometimes-concise-is-elegant-too-ly yrs.
> 




From jjl at pobox.com  Sat Jul 12 10:36:57 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 12 Jul 2003 15:36:57 +0100
Subject: What's new with Gnosis
References: <mailman.1057989259.18960.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87d6gf6cc6.fsf@pobox.com>

"Raymond Hettinger" <vze4rx4y at verizon.net> writes:
[...]
> ACT I ---------------------------------------
> >>> s = list('abc')
> >>> try:
> ...     result = s['a']
> ... except IndexError, TypeError:
> ...     print 'Not found'
> ...
> 
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<pyshell#11>", line 2, in -toplevel-
>     result = s['a']
> TypeError: list indices must be integers

The second 'argument' of except is the caught exception object, so
that code works as if you did

try:
    result = s['a']
except IndexError, e:
    TypeError = e
    print 'Not found'


-- which doesn't catch the TypeError.



> ACT II --------------------------------------------
> >>> class MyMistake(Exception):
> ...     pass
> 
> >>> try:
> ...     raise MyMistake, 'try, try again'
> ... except MyMistake, msg:
> ...     print type(msg)
> ...
> 
> <type 'instance'>

Again, the second 'argument' of except gets the exception object, not
the string you used in the raise.

These two are equivalent [XXX er, I *think* they're always equivalent]:

raise SomeError, 'my error message'
raise SomeError('my error message')

The second form is more explicit, hence better.

Exception objects do have a __str__ method, though, so you can print
them as if they were strings:

try:
    result = s['a']
except IndexError, e:
    print e


because print calls the e.__str__ method to do its work.


> ACT III --------------------------------------------
> >>> class Prohibited(Exception):
> ...     def __init__(self):
> ...         print 'This class of should never get initialized'
> ...
> >>> raise Prohibited()
> This class of should never get initialized
> 
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<pyshell#40>", line 1, in -toplevel-
>     raise Prohibited()
> Prohibited: <unprintable instance object>
> >>> raise Prohibited
> This class of should never get initialized
> 
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<pyshell#41>", line 1, in -toplevel-
>     raise Prohibited
> Prohibited: <unprintable instance object>

These are equivalent:

raise Exception
raise Exception()

The second is more explicit, hence better.

Since exception classes always end up getting instantiated whichever
way you write the raise statement, you need to write __init__
correctly if you override it.  The Exception base class has an
__init__ that it expects to be called, so you should call it:

[At this point, I had to look up the arguments to Exception.__init__.]

class Prohibited(Exception):
    def __init__(self, *args):
        Exception.__init__(self, *args)
        print 'This class will get initialized'


In this case, the lack of that Exception.__init__ call is what's
causing the "<unprintable instance object>" message, but it could
cause other problems too.

[Actually, with your interactive example, I don't get the
"<unprintable..." bit -- maybe that's in 2.3b2...]



> ACT IV -----------------------------------------------
> >>> module = 'Root'
> >>> try:
> ...     raise module + 'Error'
> ... except 'LeafError':
> ...     print 'Need leaves'
> ... except 'RootError':
> ...     print 'Need soil'
> ... except:
> ...     print 'Not sure what is needed'
> ...
> 
> Not sure what is needed

A raised string exception only matches the string in the except
statment if both strings are the same object.  It's not enough for
them to have the same value.  Two different string literals that have
the same value aren't necessarily the same object:

myerror = "myerror"
anothererror = "myerror"  # not *necessarily* the same object as myerror
try:
    raise myerror
except anothererror:
    # we only get here if it so happens that:
    assert myerror is anothererror
except myerror:
    # we always get here, because:
    assert myerror is myerror



> ACT V -----------------------------------------------
> >>> try:
> ...     raise KeyError('Cannot find key')
> ... except LookupError, msg:
> ...     print 'Lookup:', msg
> ... except OverflowError, msg:
> ...     print 'Overflow:', msg
> ... except KeyError, msg:
> ...     print 'Key:', msg
> 
> 
> Lookup: 'Cannot find key'

except statements are checked in the order you write them.  Class
instance exceptions are matched as if by

isinstance(raised_exception, caught_exception)

so exceptions can be caught by their base classes.  LookupError is a
base class of KeyError, so the first except matches.


John



From postmaster at 127.0.0.1  Sun Jul 13 06:58:13 2003
From: postmaster at 127.0.0.1 (David McNab)
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 22:58:13 +1200
Subject: anything like C++ references?
References: <13t0hvsb7idh0g6ac3upe5k0qd6flc17ah@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2003.07.13.10.58.11.376531@127.0.0.1>

On Sat, 12 Jul 2003 13:53:35 -0700, Tom Plunket paused, took a deep
breath, then came out with:

> I want to do something along the lines of the following C++ code:
> 
> void change(int& i)
> {
>    i++;
> }

> Is there any way to do references like this in Python?
<snip>

In Python, basic types like strings and numbers are a weird exception to
the 'everything is an object' rule.

When you pass any other object in a function, the function gets a ref to
that object.

But when you pass a string or numeric object, the whole thing (not a ref)
gets passed.

Your best bet would be to create a wrapper class for numbers, store the
actual number in an attribute, and provide all the methods in Section
3.3.6 of the Python Reference Manual (__add__, __sub__ etc) to work on the
value attribute.

That way, you can use your numeric object in calculations, and when you
pass it to functions (like your 'change()' above), things will work as
expected. In fact, in most situations, it will look/feel/smell just like
a number.

But watch out for trying to assign to it, or using '+=' type operators -
they will replace your object with a plain number.

I attach below a sample class declaration for a numeric type which is
passable by reference (no need to do this for string, since you can just
use the UserString module).

Cheers
David

class myint:
    def __init__(self, value):
        self.value = value

    def __getattr__(self, attr):
        if attr in ['__repr__', '__add__', '__repr__', '__add__',
                    '__sub__', '__mul__', '__floordiv__', '__mod__',
                    '__divmod__', '__pow__', '__lshift__',
                    '__rshift__', '__and__', '__xor__', '__or__',
                    '__div__', '__truediv__', '__radd__', '__rsub__',
                    '__rmul__', '__rdiv__', '__rtruediv__',
                    '__rfloordiv__', '__rmod__', '__rdivmod__',
                    '__rpow__', '__rlshift__', '__rrshift__',
                    '__rand__', '__rxor__', '__ror__',
                    '__neg__',
                    '__pos__', '__abs__', '__invert__',
                    '__complex__', '__int__', '__long__',
                    '__float__', '__oct__', '__hex__', '__coerce__']:
            return getattr(self.value, attr)

        def __iadd__(self, other):
            self.value += other
            return self.value

        def __isub__(self, other): self.value -= other
        def __imul__(self, other): self.value *= other
        def __idiv__(self, other): self.value /= other
        def __itruediv__(self, other):
            self.value = self.value.__itruediv__(other)
        def __ifloordiv__(self, other): self.value = self.value.__itruediv__(other)
        def __imod__(self, other): self.value = self.value.__imod__(other)
        def __ipow__(self, other): self.value = self.value.__ipow__(other)
        def __ilshift__(self, other): self.value = self.value.__ilshift__(other)
        def __irshift__(self, other): self.value = self.value.__irshift__(other)
        def __iand__(self, other): self.value = self.value.__iand__(other)
        def __ixor__(self, other): self.value = self.value.__ixor__(other)
        def __ior__(self, other): self.value = self.value.__ior__(other)




From staschuk at telusplanet.net  Thu Jul 31 21:10:17 2003
From: staschuk at telusplanet.net (Steven Taschuk)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 19:10:17 -0600
Subject: time, calendar, datetime, etc
In-Reply-To: <bgaphh$lua$1@news7.svr.pol.co.uk>; from bens@replytothegroupplease.com on Thu, Jul 31, 2003 at 11:09:18AM +0100
References: <153fa67.0307300326.45a29380@posting.google.com> <mailman.1059631303.24782.python-list@python.org> <bgaphh$lua$1@news7.svr.pol.co.uk>
Message-ID: <20030731191017.D22513@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>

Quoth Ben S:
  [...]
> Problem is, time.localtime() doesn't return a 9-element tuple any more,
> it returns a struct_time. (Since 2.2, I think.)

Ah, yes.  I read Kylotan's question pretty sloppily, it seems.

datetime.timetuple() does indeed return a struct_time, as do
date.timetuple() and datetime.utctimetuple(), and this is clearly
desirable and intended.  I think I'll submit a doc patch.

-- 
Steven Taschuk                                                 o- @
staschuk at telusplanet.net                                      7O   )
                                                               "  (




From kericks272 at earthlink.net  Tue Jul 15 14:56:16 2003
From: kericks272 at earthlink.net (ken erickson)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 18:56:16 GMT
Subject: python 2.2.3 & mega widgets 1.1
Message-ID: <k7YQa.3159$Mc.298520@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>

Is Python Megawidgets 1.1 compatible with Python 2.2.3.

I'm new to Python and I'm trying to work my way through some example is John
Grayson's Python and Tkinter Programming book.  He has some sample code that
uses the PMW library.

The reason I ask is due to a problem that I'm having in trying to run the
demo code included with the widget library.  I get an AttributeError message
when ever the demo code attempts to use any of the Pwm methods.  I've tried
to find the meaning of the AttributeError message but I'm unable to locate
this error message in any of the online documentation; including the FAQ.

C:\Python22\Pmw\demos>python colors.py
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "colors.py", line 44, in ?
    Pmw.initialise(root, fontScheme = 'pmw1')
AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'initialise'

-TIA





From gregadelliot at hotmail.com  Mon Jul 21 06:30:08 2003
From: gregadelliot at hotmail.com (jeff)
Date: 21 Jul 2003 03:30:08 -0700
Subject: python tags on websites timeout problem
References: <cdac0350.0307191527.755df3e1@posting.google.com> <87d6g4u48y.fsf@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <cdac0350.0307210230.48614a7b@posting.google.com>

Hiya,

thanks everyone that replied, very informative.

yep i looked into using the google api, although wasnt sure what it
did at first so ill check that again,

thanks for the sourceforge links

thanks for everything else

cheers

greg



From m at moshez.org  Tue Jul  8 02:45:07 2003
From: m at moshez.org (Moshe Zadka)
Date: 8 Jul 2003 06:45:07 -0000
Subject: looking for UDP package, network programming guidance
In-Reply-To: <uj8jgvsrbop1lhem5t743gv9pvuh7ig6l1@4ax.com>
References: <uj8jgvsrbop1lhem5t743gv9pvuh7ig6l1@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <20030708064507.26358.qmail@green.zadka.com>

On Mon, 07 Jul 2003, Tom Plunket <tomas at fancy.org> wrote:

> Searching the web turned up Twisted, although it seems like it
> might be a bit bigger than I would have hoped (in terms of,
> "there's a huge package here to figure out"), but as far as I can
> tell it's the only UDP solution out there.  Is this the case?

It isn't the only one, but it makes it fairly easy to write UDP
servers without worrying about the irrelevant low-level details.

Here is a simple example, based on an example from the UDP howto:
'''
from twisted.internet import protocol, reactor
class UpperEcho(protocol.DatagramProtocol):
    def datagramReceived(self, data, (host, port)):
        self.transport.write(data.upper(), (host, port))

reactor.listenUDP(9999, UpperEcho())
reactor.run()
'''

Run the above in the Python interpreter, and then in a different window:

moshez at green:~$ echo hello | nc -u localhost 9999
HELLO

Granted, perhaps not the most efficient way to uppercase strings,
but hopefully I got the idea across.

Despite Twisted's "largeness", you can usually limit yourself to
the howto you're interested in, and read others only as they come
in useful.
[If you have further Twisted questions, the Twisted mailing list
is the best forum to ask in.]
-- 
Moshe Zadka -- http://moshez.org/
Buffy: I don't like you hanging out with someone that... short.
Riley: Yeah, a lot of young people nowadays are experimenting with shortness.
Agile Programming Language -- http://www.python.org/




From edreamleo at charter.net  Thu Jul 10 18:32:45 2003
From: edreamleo at charter.net (Edward K. Ream)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 17:32:45 -0500
Subject: A new view of gcmodule.c
Message-ID: <vgrqchjqcpr350@corp.supernews.com>

A few days ago I had the highly pleasurable experience of studying Python's
garbage collecting code in gcmodule.c.

Naturally, I studied the code using a Leo outline. I have just uploaded this
outline to:
http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=3458
The outline is in pythonGC.leo.zip in the Example Outlines section.

This outline makes clear just how good the code really is. I shall not soon
forget the dawning realization that this code is absolutely beautiful:
incredibly short, simple and elegant. There are hardly any if statements in
the core of the code!  Those who want proof that Python is a brilliant piece
of engineering need look no further than gcmodule.c.  To find such a gem at
the heart of Python is truly thrilling. I have studied a lot of programs in
my life; it doesn't get any better than this.

For the superb external documentation, see:
http://www.arctrix.com/nas/python/gc/

Edward
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Edward K. Ream   email:  edreamleo at charter.net
Leo: Literate Editor with Outlines
Leo: http://webpages.charter.net/edreamleo/front.html
--------------------------------------------------------------------





From logiplex at qwest.net  Fri Jul 18 12:44:21 2003
From: logiplex at qwest.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: 18 Jul 2003 09:44:21 -0700
Subject: A challenge to the ASCII proponents.
In-Reply-To: <3F172442.2040907@v.loewis.de>
References: <mailman.1058278343.23104.python-list@python.org>
	 <bf167a$pvt$1@panix2.panix.com> <ufzl7rdno.fsf@online.no>
	 <3F142A58.80426AA4@hotmail.com>
	 <2259b0e2.0307161620.4a9353f1@posting.google.com>
	 <Xns93BB246FDDBCFJanC@213.118.75.80> <3F168011.3AEB3EFC@hotmail.com>
	 <3F172442.2040907@v.loewis.de>
Message-ID: <1058546661.2717.16.camel@software1.logiplex.internal>

On Thu, 2003-07-17 at 15:33, Martin v. Loewis wrote:

> So what do you think about this message?:
> 
> ????????
> 
> Look Ma, no markup. And not every character uses two bytes, either.
> And I can use Umlauts (???) and Arabic (???.????) if I want to.
> 
> I don't know for whom this renders well, but I guess MSIE5+, NS6+
> and Mozilla 1+ are good candidates - without the need for saving
> things into files.

Looks fine in Evolution 1.4.3.  Well, that is, it looks like a bunch of
gibberish, which is what I expected to see <wink>

-- 
Cliff Wells, Software Engineer
Logiplex Corporation (www.logiplex.net)
(503) 978-6726  (800) 735-0555





From just at xs4all.nl  Tue Jul  8 11:02:29 2003
From: just at xs4all.nl (Just van Rossum)
Date: Tue,  8 Jul 2003 17:02:29 +0200
Subject: path module
In-Reply-To: <16138.55918.159252.387878@montanaro.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <r01050400-1026-3A7D9C99B15511D7A953003065D5E7E4@[10.0.0.23]>

Skip Montanaro wrote:

>     Just> Also: this would not be portable on platforms not using / as
>     Just> os.sep, ...
> 
> Not necessarily. 

True, but it takes guessing: "did the author really mean to specify
several path components here, or is he/she intentionally using the unix
path separater in file names on a platform that _does't_ use / as the
path separator?". In the face of ambiguity etc.

> My guess (again, without trying it) is that it does
> the right thing. 

It doesn't...

> Nonetheless, before anything like Jason's path module is incorporated
> into the standard distribution, a PEP is almost certainly required. 
> I imagine there are some things which could be done better (or at
> least differently) to make the overall module more acceptable.

Absolutely. I really like Holger's observation that having path objects
levels the road to virtual file systems (eg. use a zip file as a file
system). Anyone intersted in volunteering to write that PEP? I'd like to
contribute in some way, but I'm not going to write more than 1 PEP per
year :-).

Just




From usenet_spam at janc.invalid  Mon Jul 21 23:18:03 2003
From: usenet_spam at janc.invalid (JanC)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 03:18:03 GMT
Subject: A challenge to the ASCII proponents.
References: <mailman.1058278343.23104.python-list@python.org> <bf167a$pvt$1@panix2.panix.com> <ufzl7rdno.fsf@online.no> <3F142A58.80426AA4@hotmail.com> <2259b0e2.0307161620.4a9353f1@posting.google.com> <Xns93BB246FDDBCFJanC@213.118.75.80> <3F168011.3AEB3EFC@hotmail.com> <3F172442.2040907@v.loewis.de> <m2he5kzg0r.fsf@mycroft.actrix.gen.nz>
Message-ID: <Xns93C035EC0E253JanC@213.119.4.141>

Paul Foley <see at below.invalid> schreef:

> betacode

Thanks, I didn't know about that.
Have now searched Google for "greek betacode" and have bookmarked some of 
the results.  :-)

-- 
JanC

"Be strict when sending and tolerant when receiving."
RFC 1958 - Architectural Principles of the Internet - section 3.9



From gminick at hacker.pl  Tue Jul 29 02:55:12 2003
From: gminick at hacker.pl (Wojtek Walczak)
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 06:55:12 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Newbie on importing
References: <68a42404.0306200929.6043eef0@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bg55og$cn0$1@atlantis.news.tpi.pl>

Dnia 20 Jun 2003 10:29:14 -0700, Michael J Whitmore napisa?(a):
> Just read the Python tutorial looking for the answer to this question

>  What is the difference between (from sys import *) and (import sys). 
http://ASPN.ActiveState.com/ASPN/docs/ActivePython/howtos/doanddont/node4.html

-- 
[ Wojtek Walczak - gminick (at) underground.org.pl ]
[        <http://gminick.linuxsecurity.pl/>        ]
[ "...rozmaite zwroty, matowe od patyny dawnosci." ]




From scook at elp.rr.com  Wed Jul 23 23:33:11 2003
From: scook at elp.rr.com (Stan Cook)
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 03:33:11 GMT
Subject: Help writing to file
Message-ID: <XrITa.96700$hV.7381037@twister.austin.rr.com>

I'm trying to have my program write to a log file.  I have the idea, but I'm
getting an error and don't understand why.

File "D:\AetInstall\aet.py", line 201, in load_progs
    _log.write(string.ljust( _serv, 25))
AttributeError: 'str' object has no attribute 'write'

I get the above message from this section of code:

for s in _image:
            _serv = s
            print _serv
            _ErrorLevel=map_server(_serv)
            _log.write(string.ljust( _serv, 25))

_image is a list containing server names.

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Stan


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From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Fri Jul 25 19:48:11 2003
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 25 Jul 2003 19:48:11 -0400
Subject: properties + types, implementing meta-class desciptors elegantly?
References: <mailman.1058532630.7342.python-list@python.org> <mailman.1058654317.6488.python-list@python.org> <bfe637$6rk$1@panix2.panix.com> <mailman.1058713111.11669.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bfsfjr$r8v$1@panix3.panix.com>

In article <mailman.1058713111.11669.python-list at python.org>,
Mike C. Fletcher <mcfletch at rogers.com> wrote:
>Aahz wrote:
>>In article <mailman.1058654317.6488.python-list at python.org>,
>>Mike C. Fletcher <mcfletch at rogers.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>   * finally, stores the value
>>>         o tries to do what would have been done if there were no
>>>           descriptor (with the new, coerced value)
>>>         o does *not* create new names in the object's namespace (all
>>>           names are documented w/ descriptors, there's not a lot of
>>>           '_' prefixed names cluttering the namespace)
>>>         o does *not* require a new dictionary/storage-object attribute
>>>           for the object (the descriptor works like any other
>>>           descriptor, a *stand-alone* object that replaces a regular
>>>           attribute)
>>
>>But this is a recipe for name clashes.  If you follow the first bullet,
>>it's a normal attribute, but everything else says you want a property.
>>Properties are themselves objects that are attached to names in an
>>object.  You can't have the same name bound to two different objects.
>
>It's true that:
>
>    * your class has a namespace, and there are objects stored in that
>      namespace
>          o the objects stored in that namespace often are descriptors
>          o they are available to the instances which do not shadow them
>            (as I said, I can deal with this, and it's cleaner anyway).
>                + if they are descriptors, they modify instance access
>                  to attributes

That's technically inaccurate as phrased.  First of all, not all
descriptors get activated through attribute access, only data
descriptors do.  Data descriptors are descriptors that define a ``set``
attribute (which is essentially a method of the descriptor object).
Secondly, it muddies understanding to say that the descriptor modifies
access to attributes, as if the descriptor is a proxy for an attribute.
Data descriptors *replace* attributes, and if you want to store a value,
it's your responsibility to determine where that value is stored (and
how to retrieve it).

>    * the metaclass instance's property *values* would be stored in the
>      metaclass instance's dictionary, just as is normally done (the
>      metaclass' property *descriptors* would be stored in the
>      metaclass' dictionary), there's no new conflicts created here,
>      everything just works like it does now, a lookup would look
>      something like this:
>
> >>> x.y
>x doesn't have a __getattribute__, so see if it has a descriptor for 'y'

Actually, x is the *last* object checked, and __getattribute__() is
never called on instances.

>    get type(x).y
>
>        type(x) doesn't have a __getattribute__, so see if it has a
>        descriptor for 'y'
>
>            get type(type(x)).y -> this is just a simple descriptor, as
>            there's no higher-level descriptor, has a __get__ method,
>            calls it to retrieve type(x).y

That should be type(type(x).y), I think.  (I'm not testing this in
code.)

>        returns the currently stored entry 'y' in type(x)'s dictionary,
>        which happens to be a descriptor
>
>    has type(x).y, a descriptor with a __get__ method, calls it, gets
>    back value stored in instance's dictionary

That's correct if type(x).y is a data descriptor; other types of
descriptors do get overridden by the instance.

>You wind up with some names that are not available for use *as 
>properties* on instances *iff* you set a simple value for the properties 
>of the meta-class instance, but you solve that the regular way, by 
>making the value stored by the meta-class instance's property a 
>descriptor, rather than a simple value.  That's just the way classes 
>work.  Yes, it's a "name clash", but everything in classes/instances is 
>name clashes <shrug>.

Instances don't have properties, only types do.  A metaclass is "just" a
class that creates classes (which are themselves types with new-style
classes).  Problems only show up when you want to access class behavior
*through* a class instance.

>Not a problem I can see in the problem I outlined just yet, there's 
>still no low-level value-setting mechanism exposed,

The point is that there's no low-level value.  You always have to
explicitly specify the name and namespace when you use properties.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

This is Python.  We don't care much about theory, except where it intersects 
with useful practice.  --Aahz



From belred1 at yahoo.com  Sat Jul 12 15:09:44 2003
From: belred1 at yahoo.com (Bryan)
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 19:09:44 GMT
Subject: Accessing and updating global variables among several modules
References: <a12f6af8.0307111938.4d7a9851@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <Y1ZPa.43783$sY2.18605@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net>

"Fuming Wang" <fumingw at tom.com> wrote in message
news:a12f6af8.0307111938.4d7a9851 at posting.google.com...
> Hi,
>
> I have several modules that need to access global variables among
> them.  I can do that by import modules:
>
> module A:
> gA = 'old'
>
> module B:
> import A
> print A.gA
> >>> 'old'
>
> change gA in module A after some initialization:
> def init_fuct():
>     gA = 'new'
>
> no change in module B:
> print A.gA
> >>> 'old'
>
> However, when I modify these global variables in one module, the other
> modules would not see the changes.  Any one has any suggestions? ( I
> don't want to use from A import *)
>
>
> Thanks,
> Fuming


i've used this technique before where different modules access a global
variable in another module it works.  i'm not understanding why you are
having problems.  i just did this test with strings... is this similar to
what you are doing?  it shouldn't matter how myvar gets set.

--- test1.py
myvar = 'abc'
def set_myvar(x):
    global myvar
    myvar = x

--- test2.py
import test1
print test1.myvar
test1.set_myvar('def')
print test1.myvar

--- from the interpreter
>>> import test2
abc
def
>>>


bryan





From cwilbur at mithril.chromatico.net  Tue Jul  1 08:44:30 2003
From: cwilbur at mithril.chromatico.net (Charlton Wilbur)
Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 12:44:30 GMT
Subject: Fast CGI Vs Java Application Servers
References: <kAxLa.592$_I3.34571@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au> <20030630120924.209$qh@newsreader.com> <23891c90.0307010111.43fd3c43@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <87brwexw81.fsf@mithril.chromatico.net>

paul at boddie.net (Paul Boddie) writes:

> ctcgag at hotmail.com wrote in message
> news:<20030630120924.209$qh at newsreader.com>...

> > Switching a working application to a new language is about the
> > greatest possible crime there is against code reuse.
> 
> "We believe in code reuse. Apart from the system we just threw away,
> of course."

It's also possible that the old application just barely works, and
that it will take more work to bolt new things onto the side of it
than to rewrite it from scratch.  If we're talking about a 15-year-old
C application that had a web interface bolted onto it a few years
back and which has been undergoing continual change and occasional
expansion, I could certainly see a case for rewriting the whole mess.

Charlton



From pipen at beast_tu_kielce.pl  Wed Jul  2 09:53:12 2003
From: pipen at beast_tu_kielce.pl (Artur M. Piwko)
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 13:53:12 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Partition names with Python
References: <1056984252.3f004cbc6abd6@mail.uzem.itu.edu.tr> <mailman.1056988192.18351.python-list@python.org> <bdqsjr$tjb$0@216.39.172.122> <mailman.1057047963.15568.python-list@python.org> <slrnbg2q16.pm7.pipen@beast.tu.kielce.pl> <m2n0fy46w3.fsf@mother.paradise.lost> <mailman.1057133706.13557.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrnbg5ouu.4ht.pipen@beast.tu.kielce.pl>

In the darkest hour on Wed,  2 Jul 2003 11:17:49 +0300,
Erhan Ekici <erhan at uzem.itu.edu.tr> screamed:
> But some machines /proc/partition file is empty..
> But /etc/fstab contain drives names..(sda1,sda2,cdrom,floopy etc)
> 
> For Example My Server(Slackware 9)'s /proc/partition file contain nothing.
> I must take partition names on all Linux(Redhat,Mandrake,Slackware etc)..
> 
> Why do some machine's /proc/partition file contain nothing... 
> 

Yes, you have to compile it to kernel.

The best choice is /etc/mtab, imho.


Artur

-- 
Before the Goat of Mendes... we all must take our turn   |  Artur M. Piwko
Into the magic circle... where still the fire burns      |  mailto:s/_/./
We're spinning round and round... until one takes a fall | -- Mercyful Fate
The fallen one will not return, the fallen one must burn | "Witches' Dance"



From eger at cc.gatech.edu  Mon Jul 14 21:10:59 2003
From: eger at cc.gatech.edu (David Eger)
Date: 15 Jul 2003 01:10:59 GMT
Subject: PyErr_SetString() != raise ?
Message-ID: <bevkb3$mg8$1@solaria.cc.gatech.edu>

When I use PyErr_SetString() in an extension, python just keeps on
chugging instead of acting as though a Python exception had been
'raise'd.  Why is this, and do I really have to write the Python code
to raise an exception manually after I've used PyErr_SetString()?

Most recently, writing an iterator -- I write:

    if (nextEl == NULL) {
      PyErr_SetString(PyExc_StopIteration, "Array index out of bounds");
      return NULL;
      }

in my iterator extension, but when I use my extension, I get an infinite loop:

eger at rosencrantz:/usr/src/CIM-stuff/wbemcli/bugs$ python2.2 
Python 2.2.2 (#1, Mar 21 2003, 23:40:29) 
[GCC 3.2.3 20030316 (Debian prerelease)] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import StopIterTest
>>> a = StopIterTest.dupstring("Amanda's")
>>> b = StopIterTest.dupstring("got")
>>> l = StopIterTest.stringArray()
>>> l.add(a)
>>> l.add(b)
>>> for i in l:
...    print i
... 
_10180840_p_string
_10181b38_p_string
None
None
None
None
None
None
None
None
None
None

(and so on, and so on...)  The thing is, even though I *set* the
exception with PyErr_SetString, to the interpreter, it doesn't get
raised.  Am I just misinterpretting how PyErr_SetString is supposed 
to work?

-David



From lorenb2 at bezeqint.net  Thu Jul 31 05:11:28 2003
From: lorenb2 at bezeqint.net (Bill Loren)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 11:11:28 +0200
Subject: how to gunzip a string ?
References: <025001c356a5$2d9aad10$6400a8c0@EVOD31> <bg90oi$v1d$1@main.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <001801c35743$b9f4cf40$6400a8c0@EVOD31>

Thanks !!!  it works fine.
question:  upon calling GzipConsumer's close methos, it in turn invokes a
consumer close method, too.
on the stupid_consumer you demonstrated there is no such method.  the
question is whether an extremely_stupid
"def close(self): pass" method is just fine or is there something important
to do with the data ?

~B

----- Original Message -----
From: "Fredrik Lundh" <fredrik at pythonware.com>
To: <python-list at python.org>
Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2003 7:47 PM
Subject: Re: how to gunzip a string ?


> Bill Loren wrote:
> > I guess I really need some sort of library that will do a gzip decoding
to a
> > compressed string.
> > assume that I have a gzipped_string_reply I got from an HTTP server,
> > It'd be superb to have a gunzip class that takes it and return its
decoded
> > equivalent.
> >
> > I managed to do it with the gzip library only after saving the string to
a
> > file and then opening and reading it
> > with gzip.open, but it's extremely ugly.
> >
> > any suggestions ?
>
> trying again:
>
>     http://effbot.org/zone/consumer-gzip.htm
>     (GzipConsumer module)
>
> interface code (based on john j. lee's posting):
>
>     from GzipConsumer import GzipConsumer
>
>     class stupid_gzip_consumer:
>         def __init__(self): self.data = []
>         def feed(self, data): self.data.append(data)
>
>     def gunzip(data):
>         c = stupid_gzip_consumer()
>         gzc = GzipConsumer(c)
>         gzc.feed(data)
>         gzc.close()
>         return "".join(c.data)
>
>     unzipped_data = gunzip(gzipped_data)
>
> </F>
>
>
>
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>






From tim at zope.com  Wed Jul 16 10:14:49 2003
From: tim at zope.com (Tim Peters)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 10:14:49 -0400
Subject: __eq__ and __ne__
In-Reply-To: <3F0AF5D7.5030703@zope.com>
Message-ID: <BIEJKCLHCIOIHAGOKOLHCEDLGFAA.tim@zope.com>

[Tim]
>>>> Since the richcmp operators aren't constrained to return scalars,
>>>> an attempt to define one in terms of the others seemed futile.
>>>> Instead they're 6 independent methods.

[Shane Hathaway]
>>> Ok.  Thanks for finding the docs.  I guess I'll stick to my
>>> boilerplate code.  I think some guidance should be added to the
>>> Python docs, though, explaining that whenever you define __eq__,
>>> you very likely ought to define __ne__ also.

Doc patches are always welcome <wink>.

[Jeremy Hylton]
>> I believe C++ has the same behavior when you overload logical
>> operators.  So at least people familiar with the same behavior in
>> other languages won't be surprised.

[Shane]
> Actually, C++ generates a compiler error if you try to do that.  (See
> the attached program.)  Java doesn't run into this because it has a
> simpler interface: the only operator you can override is equals().  So
> in this case, C++ is fully explicit and Java is fully implicit, while
> Python makes a guess.  If we can't make it implicit like Java, then it
> seems preferable for Python to raise an exception, similar to C++,
> when you use the != operator with an instance that implements __eq__
> but not __ne__.

With a clean slate, I'd agree.  If Python 3 supports *only* richcmps, I
expect that's what Guido will do there.  The current comparison mish-mash is
at least half backward-compatibility warts.  This is something that needs to
be simplified rather than complicated (it's already too complicated to
understand in all cases!), but simplification probably can't be done anymore
without breaking somebody's code.





From bobsrefusebin at hotmail.com  Thu Jul 31 12:57:28 2003
From: bobsrefusebin at hotmail.com (Bob Perlman)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 16:57:28 GMT
Subject: Plotting points with DISLIN
Message-ID: <joiiivsm50cr8f4hv3da8ggujgf48vkibd@4ax.com>

Hi - 

I've been getting good results using the DISLIN data plotting package
with Python.  But I've been unable to plot points instead of curves.
Can someone tell me how to turn off the between-points interpolation?
And if there is a way to do it, is there a way to change the style of
points plotted?

Thanks,
Bob Perlman



From intentionally at blank.co.uk  Mon Jul 14 23:46:55 2003
From: intentionally at blank.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 04:46:55 +0100
Subject: anything like C++ references?
References: <mailman.1058190505.14930.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <jkt6hvc25tc27qe2mfrsh86ut7cpvpr8r2@4ax.com>

On Mon, 14 Jul 2003 06:47:44 -0700, Michael Chermside
<mcherm at mcherm.com> wrote:

>I have nothing whatsoever to add to this... it is just so clearly and
>simply stated that I felt it was worth repeating. Of course, lots of
>other people said the same thing in other ways, but I felt that Ian's
>phrasing is particularly useful in explaining things to programmers
>coming from a C-style background, even if it doesn't seem to reach
>Stephen Horne.

I know what is being said. And I don't *just* have a C background.

However well you explain what Python does, that doesn't mean that it
is doing the right thing.

Mathematics says variables bind to values. Simple. But Python doesn't
respect that. I don't care how the binding is implemented as long as
the implementation respects the principle, but Pythons implementation
has side effects - it is not transparent to the programmer. This
causes confusion and errors. And saying that 'this is the way it is so
get used to it' does not seem, to me, to be the Python way.

When I was arguing against PEP238, a major argument for the change was
simply that the division operator did the wrong thing, causing
confusion and errors. The fact that PEP238 required a seriously
incompatible change, and that experienced Pythonistas were used to the
old way, was seen as a relatively minor concern.

When I argued effectively that newbies should be told 'this is the way
it is so get used to it', that really didn't go down too well. But
right now, it seems that the majority are using precisely that
argument against me.




From bokr at oz.net  Fri Jul 11 10:49:41 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 11 Jul 2003 14:49:41 GMT
Subject: Deleting specific characters from a string
References: <begfb3$7j6$1@online.de> <3F0C851C.4000500@livinglogic.de> <3F0C8AC3.5010304@dadsetan.com> <bei9c2$gvs$0@216.39.172.122> <bej2pe$hkf$2@online.de>
Message-ID: <bemiq5$4no$0@216.39.172.122>

On Thu, 10 Jul 2003 08:56:14 +0200, Behrang Dadsetan <ben at dadsetan.com> wrote:

>Bengt Richter wrote:
>> On Wed, 09 Jul 2003 23:36:03 +0200, Behrang Dadsetan <ben at dadsetan.com> wrote:
>> ====< removechars.py >========================================================
>> def removeChars(s, remove=''):
>>     return s.translate(
>>         '\x00\x01\x02\x03\x04\x05\x06\x07\x08\t\n\x0b\x0c\r\x0e\x0f'
>>         '\x10\x11\x12\x13\x14\x15\x16\x17\x18\x19\x1a\x1b\x1c\x1d\x1e\x1f'
>>         ' !"#$%&\'()*+,-./'
>>         '0123456789:;<=>?'
>>         '@ABCDEFGHIJKLMNO'
>>         'PQRSTUVWXYZ[\\]^_'
>>         '`abcdefghijklmno'
>>         'pqrstuvwxyz{|}~\x7f'
>>         '\x80\x81\x82\x83\x84\x85\x86\x87\x88\x89\x8a\x8b\x8c\x8d\x8e\x8f'
>>         '\x90\x91\x92\x93\x94\x95\x96\x97\x98\x99\x9a\x9b\x9c\x9d\x9e\x9f'
>>         '\xa0\xa1\xa2\xa3\xa4\xa5\xa6\xa7\xa8\xa9\xaa\xab\xac\xad\xae\xaf'
>>         '\xb0\xb1\xb2\xb3\xb4\xb5\xb6\xb7\xb8\xb9\xba\xbb\xbc\xbd\xbe\xbf'
>>         '\xc0\xc1\xc2\xc3\xc4\xc5\xc6\xc7\xc8\xc9\xca\xcb\xcc\xcd\xce\xcf'
>>         '\xd0\xd1\xd2\xd3\xd4\xd5\xd6\xd7\xd8\xd9\xda\xdb\xdc\xdd\xde\xdf'
>>         '\xe0\xe1\xe2\xe3\xe4\xe5\xe6\xe7\xe8\xe9\xea\xeb\xec\xed\xee\xef'
>>         '\xf0\xf1\xf2\xf3\xf4\xf5\xf6\xf7\xf8\xf9\xfa\xfb\xfc\xfd\xfe\xff'
>>         , remove)
><snip>
>It looks to me like serious overkill. If I would put in a method like 
>that somewhere in my code, my colleagues would never talk to me again ;)
>
What looks like overkill? The 256-character string literal? It is easy to explain,
and if you want utility functions like this, you can put them in a module and
your colleagues may never see beyond the import statement and the calls, unless
they are interested. It should have a doc-string though, which could advise using
help(str.translate) for further info ;-)

Note that the code for removeChars is not much to execute (29 bytecode bytes?), since the constant
is pre-defined (and the 9 bytes for SET_LINENOs could be optimized out):

>>> dis.dis(removeChars)
          0 SET_LINENO               1

          3 SET_LINENO               2
          6 LOAD_FAST                0 (s)
          9 LOAD_ATTR                1 (translate)
         12 LOAD_CONST               1 ('\x00\x01\x02\x03\x04\x05\x06\x07\x08\t\n\x0b\x0c\r\x0e\
x0f\x10\x11\x12\x13\x14\x15\x16\x17\x18\x19\x1a\x1b\x1c\x1d\x1e\x1f !"#$%&\'()*+,-./0123456789:;
<=>?@ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ[\\]^_`abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz{|}~\x7f\x80\x81\x82\x83\x84\x85
\x86\x87\x88\x89\x8a\x8b\x8c\x8d\x8e\x8f\x90\x91\x92\x93\x94\x95\x96\x97\x98\x99\x9a\x9b\x9c\x9d
\x9e\x9f\xa0\xa1\xa2\xa3\xa4\xa5\xa6\xa7\xa8\xa9\xaa\xab\xac\xad\xae\xaf\xb0\xb1\xb2\xb3\xb4\xb5
\xb6\xb7\xb8\xb9\xba\xbb\xbc\xbd\xbe\xbf\xc0\xc1\xc2\xc3\xc4\xc5\xc6\xc7\xc8\xc9\xca\xcb\xcc\xcd
\xce\xcf\xd0\xd1\xd2\xd3\xd4\xd5\xd6\xd7\xd8\xd9\xda\xdb\xdc\xdd\xde\xdf\xe0\xe1\xe2\xe3\xe4\xe5
\xe6\xe7\xe8\xe9\xea\xeb\xec\xed\xee\xef\xf0\xf1\xf2\xf3\xf4\xf5\xf6\xf7\xf8\xf9\xfa\xfb\xfc\xfd
\xfe\xff')

         15 SET_LINENO              19
         18 LOAD_FAST                1 (remove)
         21 CALL_FUNCTION            2
         24 RETURN_VALUE
         25 LOAD_CONST               0 (None)
         28 RETURN_VALUE

(I believe the last two codes are never executed, just vestigial code-generation by-product
for the case of non-explicit returns at the end).

If you want to get rid of the extras, you can do python -OO and use lambda to get rid of
the vestigial return code:

 >>> removeChars = lambda s, remove='': s.translate(
 ...         '\x00\x01\x02\x03\x04\x05\x06\x07\x08\t\n\x0b\x0c\r\x0e\x0f'
   <snip>
 ...         '\xf0\xf1\xf2\xf3\xf4\xf5\xf6\xf7\xf8\xf9\xfa\xfb\xfc\xfd\xfe\xff'
 ...         , remove)
 >>>

Gets you:

 >>> import dis
 >>> dis.dis(removeChars)
           0 LOAD_FAST                0 (s)
           3 LOAD_ATTR                1 (translate)
           6 LOAD_CONST               1 ('\x00\x01\x02\x03\x04\x05\x06\x07\x08\t\n\x0b\x0c\r\x0e\
 x0f\x10\x11\x12\x13\x14\x15\x16\x17\x18\x19\x1a\x1b\x1c\x1d\x1e\x1f !"#$%&\'()*+,-./0123456789:;
   <snip>
 \xfe\xff')
           9 LOAD_FAST                1 (remove)
          12 CALL_FUNCTION            2
          15 RETURN_VALUE 

What do you mean by overkill? ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From bokr at oz.net  Fri Jul 18 20:00:15 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 19 Jul 2003 00:00:15 GMT
Subject: Python dictionary syntax, need help
References: <56ba0aea.0307181142.7401aa02@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bfa1mf$2ug$0@216.39.172.122>

On 18 Jul 2003 12:42:06 -0700, crewr at daydots.com (Crew Reynolds) wrote:

>I want to create a dictionary of note on/off timings and access it by
>the name of the object. The following code works for one row.
>
>a = "Hammer1" 
>b = [5,45,45,45,45,50,55,57,59,61,60,59] 
>
>notes = {a:b} 
>print notes["Hammer1"][3] 
>>>> 45 
>
>The problem is, I want to load the data from a file to populate
>variables a and b and build a dictionary for "Hammer1" thru
>"Hammer10". That way, I can stick the name of the object in the array
>index and receive a list of note timings that I can index with an
>ordinal as in the above example.
>
>This is straight Python syntax but I'm hoping someone has done this or
>understands the syntax better than I.
>
>Thanks! Alternative solutions to this concept would be greatly
>appreciated.

If you want to get it from a file, I suggest making the file space-delimited
and just use an (also space delimited unless see[Note 1]) '=' sign between
dict key and associated values. I'll use the names you suggest, but note that
plain integers will also work as "names" (keys) in a dict, and that might be
handier in some cases, depending on how you want to access the dict.

We'll simulate the file with an intialized StringIO instance:

 >>> import StringIO
 >>> infile = StringIO.StringIO("""
 ... Hammer1 = 5 45 45 45 45 50 55 57 59 61 60 59
 ... Hammer2 = 6 46 46 46 46 51 56 58 60 62 61 60
 ... Hammer3 = 8 48 48 48 48 53 58 60 62 64 63 62
 ... """)

Starting out with an empty notes dict
 >>> notes = {}
 >>> for line in infile:
 ...     if not '=' in line: continue # skip blanks etc
 ...     lineitems = line.split()
 ...     name = lineitems[0]
 ...     numberlist = map(int, lineitems[2:])
 ...     notes[name] = numberlist
 ...

That creates the dict:
 >>> notes
 {'Hammer1': [5, 45, 45, 45, 45, 50, 55, 57, 59, 61, 60, 59], 'Hammer3': [8, 48, 48, 48, 48, 53,
 58, 60, 62, 64, 63, 62], 'Hammer2': [6, 46, 46, 46, 46, 51, 56, 58, 60, 62, 61, 60]}

Which you can access per your example:
 >>> notes["Hammer1"][3]
 45

And we can show it in a bit more orderly way:
 >>> tosort = notes.items()
 >>> tosort.sort()
 >>> for name, value in tosort: print name, value
 ...
 Hammer1 [5, 45, 45, 45, 45, 50, 55, 57, 59, 61, 60, 59]
 Hammer2 [6, 46, 46, 46, 46, 51, 56, 58, 60, 62, 61, 60]
 Hammer3 [8, 48, 48, 48, 48, 53, 58, 60, 62, 64, 63, 62]

After the 

 ...     lineitems = line.split()

statement, I probably should have added

         assert lineitems[1] == '='

or else been more forgiving and split in two stages, e.g.,

         left, right = line.split('=')
         name = left.strip()
         numberlist = map(int, right.split())
HTH         

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From tim.one at comcast.net  Sun Jul 27 11:33:01 2003
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 11:33:01 -0400
Subject: datetime1 - datetime0, same tzinfo, different dst
In-Reply-To: <82a334e5.0307270635.3ce7e078@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCCEFFFAAB.tim.one@comcast.net>

[St?phane Bidoul]
> I'm playing around with the new datetime module.
> Looks nice, and a welcome addition to the core...
>
> I've a question about a behaviour of
> substractions of "aware" datetimes around DST switch.
>
> The problem is that the difference gives wrong results
> when the 2 datetimes have the same tzinfo instance,
> but have different utc offsets due to DST.

According to the docs, the results are correct <wink>.

> The behaviour is consistent with what the documentation
> says, but I find it quite unintuitive.
>
> Is that the designed behaviour?

Yes.  You can read Guido's thinking here:

    http://www.zope.org/Members/fdrake/DateTimeWiki/NaiveTime

and here:

    http://www.zope.org/Members/fdrake/DateTimeWiki/TimeZoneInfo

and at other less relevant pages in that Wiki.

The first link explains that when you do

    datetime2 = datetime1 + timedelta

there are 3 different answers people *might* expect.  Guido picked the one
that seemed best to him (if, say, timedelta is 24 hours, move to the same
clock time on the next day, ignoring the deviations from that result
accounting for DST boundaries would entail).  The meaning of

    timedelta = datetime2 - datetime1

when datetime2 and datetime1 are in the same time zone follows from that
decision.  Throughout the implementation, combining (regardless of the
specific operation involved) two datetimes with the same tzinfo members
effectively treats them as naive datetimes.

> ...
> Well, it's actually consistent with the documentation
> that says that no utc conversion is done when the 2 dates
> have the same tzinfo, but I find it somewhat unintuitive
> in this case.

Yup, and other people (particularly Guido <wink>) would find it unintuitive
if it did what you expected instead.  If it's any consolation, I originally
implemented datetime to act the way you expect in this regard, but changed
it at Guido's request.  It seems odd to me too that whether time zone
adjustments occur depend on whether the tzinfo members are or aren't the
same.

> ...
> So in this case it works, but should we create
> new tzinfo instances for each datetime we create.

No, if you want DST-aware datetime differences, you can get them by
converting to UTC first; or, effectively the same thing, instead of

    d1 - d2

do

    (d1 - d1.utcoffset()) - (d2 - (d2.utcoffset())

You already figured that out, of course -- that's what your

    d1.astimezone(utc) - d0.astimezone(utc)

did, and that's the intended way to do it (provided you've written a utc
class to model UTC).

> The sample tzinfo module seems to imply they
> are best used as singletons.

Yes, for purposes of determining whether two datetimes are "in the same time
zone", their tzinfo members are compared by object identity, so they pretty
much have to be singletons to work as intended.





From noah at noah.org  Sat Jul 12 13:41:17 2003
From: noah at noah.org (Noah)
Date: 12 Jul 2003 10:41:17 -0700
Subject: The ASPN compiler
References: <u8gugvovob6k3jou2oi4olsr6mp1fbqlqn@4ax.com> <mailman.1057969337.5637.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c9d82136.0307120941.63540143@posting.google.com>

Gerhard H?ring <gh at ghaering.de> wrote in message news:<mailman.1057969337.5637.python-list at python.org>...
> Fuzzyman wrote:
> > What's the score on this (the ASPN python compiler) 
> Read the whitepaper, available on the ActiveState site.
> ...
> -- Gerhard

The short answer is that it looks like a dead project.

Actually, you are better off going to Mark Hammond's .NET page here:
    http://starship.python.net/crew/mhammond/dotnet/
This stuff is still pretty old, but not as crusty as the ActiveState info.

Note that the ActiveState Python.NET page available here:
    http://www.activestate.com/Corporate/Initiatives/NET/Research.html?_x=1
It is not easy to find going through the ActiveState site.
Luckily there is Google... 

Noah



From hanzspam at yahoo.com.au  Wed Jul  2 15:40:16 2003
From: hanzspam at yahoo.com.au (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Hannu_Kankaanp=E4=E4?=)
Date: 2 Jul 2003 12:40:16 -0700
Subject: Newbie advice for string fromatting
References: <f9b7c11d.0307020642.7231cd82@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <840592e1.0307021140.44563ece@posting.google.com>

gtewalt at earthlink.net (gt) wrote in message news:<f9b7c11d.0307020642.7231cd82 at posting.google.com>...
> O.k., four days into playing with python
> and I have a little problem that I would like 
> to get some feedback on.
> ( as far as the best way to go about it )
> 
> Basically, just a little Mad-Libs type script.
> 
> Something like:
> 
> libs = ["adverb", "noun", "verb", "tool"]
> words = {a:j, n:j, v:j, t:j}
> for x in libs:
>        print "Enter a ", x, ": ",
>        words[j] = raw_input()
> print "The %s %s %s with a %s." % (a, n, v, t)
> 
> What is the most efficient way to do something like this?

This is pretty compact :)

libs = ["adverb", "noun", "verb", "tool"]
words = [raw_input("Enter a " + x + " : ") for x in libs]
print "The %s %s %s with a %s." % tuple(words)

Could be even written as a perverted one-liner.

...Maybe a real 'for' loop for getting the words would be better
in this case though. So that the input could be verified too.



From kericks272 at earthlink.net  Mon Jul 28 04:10:03 2003
From: kericks272 at earthlink.net (ken)
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 08:10:03 GMT
Subject: IDLE?
Message-ID: <vT4Va.122579$Io.10482256@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>

I'm trying to find the correct method of launching IDLE (v 0.8) to debug a
script.  When I run without a script name and then enable the debugger
option and then load and run the script I have no problems.  However, I need
to be able to add command line options (-h or --help).  I can run the script
with command line options (without the preceding IDLE) just fine but when I
attempt to run "\Python22\Tools\IDLE\idle -d test.py -h" I get a syntax
error on the call to Main()

if __name__ == '__main__':
    main()


  File "test.py", line 367
    main()
         ^
SyntaxError: invalid syntax

What am I doing wrong?

TIA





From max at alcyone.com  Thu Jul 10 21:52:53 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 18:52:53 -0700
Subject: Securing 'pickle'
References: <pan.2003.07.11.01.20.47.998070@127.0.0.1> <slrnbgs4hc.hop.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local> <7x1xwxu98y.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <3F0E1875.574DC6D7@alcyone.com>

Paul Rubin wrote:

> Because now you need a mechanism to store the session info on the
> server, and you might want it to work across multiple load-balanced
> servers that fail over to one another, etc.

That's far superior to presenting the opportunity to exploits in the
first place, in my opinion.  Depending on the contents of the contents
of that cookie, what you suggest may not be a problem at all (depending
on how critical the data contained therein is).

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ I would rather understand one cause than be king of Persia.
\__/  Democritus



From bokr at oz.net  Wed Jul 23 00:41:18 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 23 Jul 2003 04:41:18 GMT
Subject: recognizing empty iterators
References: <2259b0e2.0307210626.11a1bbf1@posting.google.com> <mailman.1058835583.22488.python-list@python.org> <2259b0e2.0307220744.156c95bf@posting.google.com> <mailman.1058913275.20427.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bfl3le$efe$0@216.39.172.122>

On Tue, 22 Jul 2003 16:41:29 -0600, Steven Taschuk <staschuk at telusplanet.net> wrote:

>Quoth Michele Simionato:
>> Steven Taschuk <staschuk at telusplanet.net> wrote in message news:<mailman.1058835583.22488.python-list at python.org>...
>  [...]
>> > I don't have anything substantial to add to others' posts, but I
>> > wonder: under what circumstances do you want to do this?
>> 
>> I wanted to check the output of ifilter or imap; [...]
>
>Ah.  And then, if there were elements in the iterator, I assume
>you would then process them somehow, right?  Why not just do that
>with a for loop, say, and check afterwards whether anything has
>been done?  A silly example:
>
>    processed = 0
>    for x in iterator:
>        process(x)
>        processed = processed + 1
>    if processed:
>        # ...
>
You can avoid flag bumping in the loop:

 >>> x = object(); idx=id(x)
 >>> for x in iter(''): print x,
 ...
 >>> id(x)==idx
 1
 >>> for x in iter('abcd'): print x,
 ...
 a b c d
 >>> id(x)==idx
 0

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From skip at pobox.com  Tue Jul  8 10:59:41 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 09:59:41 -0500
Subject: anything new on the ternary operator?
In-Reply-To: <40a939c9.0307080622.3118cfd7@posting.google.com>
References: <3F09E4B4.FED89C06@alcyone.com>
        <3F09252F.9B0F52BD@alcyone.com>
        <mailman.1057533670.9800.python-list@python.org>
        <beae42$d01$1@panix2.panix.com>
        <mailman.1057574950.16136.python-list@python.org>
        <mailman.1057642872.21988.python-list@python.org>
        <40a939c9.0307080622.3118cfd7@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <16138.56413.684250.921762@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    >> [The consensus in EP was that Israel was in Europe]

    Alia> Sorry, I am confused: isn't Israel in the Middle East?

Sure, but what continent is the the Middle East in, Europe, Asia or Africa?
I had to make the same decision in Musi-Cal.  I decided that Israel was part
of Europe.  The decision wasn't entirely arbitrary.  Most concert dates we
list for Asia are in Japan, Korea or Hong Kong.  There are almost never any
African concert dates listed.  Israel was close enough to Europe that it
made sense to group it there.

Skip





From alanmk at hotmail.com  Tue Jul 29 12:29:57 2003
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 17:29:57 +0100
Subject: Casting stones (was Re: Debugging Python ?)
References: <mailman.1059409013.10134.python-list@python.org> <84fc4588.0307290453.52671e11@posting.google.com> <bg5v9t$lt$1@panix1.panix.com> <3F268802.BDB26B67@hotmail.com> <bg65n6$2bs$1@panix2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <3F26A105.29AD2EC9@hotmail.com>

[Aahz]
>>> Top-posting is more annoying IMO.

[Alan Kennedy]
>>However, there is a down side: it makes it impossible to get
>>meaningful summaries of a posters posting history on Google Groups.

[Aahz]
> To the extent that's an issue (and I don't necessarily agree that it is
> an issue), I consider that Google's fault for not writing software that
> accounts for quoting.  If/when they fix their software, that solves the
> issue from your perspective; in the meantime, we get easier-to-read
> threads in realtime.

I agree that Google could try harder, and also agree that we should
not start top-posting, just to hack around Google.

It is interesting to note that the Timbot's style of posting seems to
address this problem, if not solve it.

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&q=author:tim.one%40comcast.net+

It uses a style I have copied in this message, which is

[Original poster]
> What the original poster said

With only a single line break between the two lines. The Timbots
"summary view" at least shows that the text one one is seeing in the
summary are the words of someone else.

My own posting style, which is

Original Poster:

> What the original poster said

fails to achieve that.

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&q=author:alanmk%40hotmail.com+

Let's see how this message turns up on Google Groups.

regards,

-- 
alan kennedy
-----------------------------------------------------
check http headers here: http://xhaus.com/headers
email alan:              http://xhaus.com/mailto/alan



From rimbalaya at yahoo.com  Fri Jul 25 00:27:38 2003
From: rimbalaya at yahoo.com (Rim)
Date: 24 Jul 2003 21:27:38 -0700
Subject: Why instancemethod when I can add functions to classes outside class body?
Message-ID: <6f03c4a5.0307242027.85f195a@posting.google.com>

Hi,

It appears to me the simplest way to add a function to a class outside
of the class declaration is as follows:

>>> class a(object):
...    pass
... 
>>> def f(self):
...    print 'hi'
...
>>> a.f = f
>>> b=a()
>>> b.f()
hi

It works even when the class and the function are in defined in
different modules,
and the call to the method in a third module.

So what problem is the new.instancemethod() trying to solve?

It is ok to point me to a PEP or the like.

Thanks,
- Rim



From abelikov72 at hotmail.com  Thu Jul 10 16:59:03 2003
From: abelikov72 at hotmail.com (Afanasiy)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 20:59:03 GMT
Subject: Embedding Python, threading and scalability
References: <20E0F651F8B82F45ABCBACC58A2D995B0518AD@mexper1> <mailman.1057809015.26295.python-list@python.org> <1057814773.188737@yasure> <7kergv8u1q5oib600e4ino24tf9fioo2gc@4ax.com> <3F0DC024.5A73B11B@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <1qkrgv0o2hcsvo8k95ljtsnhar5n5eljao@4ax.com>

On Thu, 10 Jul 2003 15:36:04 -0400, Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com>
wrote:

>Afanasiy wrote:
>> 
>> On Thu, 10 Jul 2003 05:26:14 -0000, "Donn Cave" <donn at drizzle.com> wrote:
>> 
>> >Quoth Jeff Epler <jepler at unpythonic.net>:
>> 
>> >At any rate, it sure isn't because Guido can't scare up an SMP machine.
>> 
>> Is this the absolute truth or just something people like to say?
>> 
>> If it is true I am very surprised... I think getting Guido an SMP
>> machine will not be very difficult, and could well be very cheap.
>
>Note the double negative in the phrase "isn't because Guido can't".
>
>That means in effect "Guido can".  Nobody's disagreeing with that.

Yes, I read a previous post which said "Give Guido a SMP machine."
and read this one as the same, my mistake.




From srijit at yahoo.com  Thu Jul 10 05:02:52 2003
From: srijit at yahoo.com (srijit at yahoo.com)
Date: 10 Jul 2003 02:02:52 -0700
Subject: numpy and scipy for Python 2.3
Message-ID: <221d8dbe.0307100102.425cbba8@posting.google.com>

Hello,
I am interested to have numpy and scipy for Python 2.3 on Windows 98.
Only binaries for 2.1 and 2.2 are available for download now.
Can I easily create binaries for numpy and scipy from the sources? If
so how?
I am looking forward for some guidance.

Regards,
Srijit



From tom.bradshaw at zytek.co.uk  Tue Jul  8 06:20:52 2003
From: tom.bradshaw at zytek.co.uk (TB)
Date: 8 Jul 2003 03:20:52 -0700
Subject: COM Programming
Message-ID: <6308fa3f.0307080220.5889317b@posting.google.com>

Hi,
    I am writing a COM object (in Delphi) to be accessed from an
application using Python, this application is using 1.5.2, does this
support the same COM functions as 2.2.3 that I have been testing with
until now? are there any known issues?
Also has anybody got any references to more info about Python using
COM?
Thanks
Tom



From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Thu Jul 31 18:00:08 2003
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 17:00:08 -0500
Subject: Python speed vs csharp
In-Reply-To: <rkdc7poiachh.1x4jtxjzaf3zo.dlg@40tude.net> (Mike's message of
 "Wed, 30 Jul 2003 23:09:22 -0700")
References: <rkdc7poiachh.1x4jtxjzaf3zo.dlg@40tude.net>
Message-ID: <m2fzkmgxw7.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

>>>>> "Mike" == Mike  <mike at nospam.com> writes:

    Mike> My second question is, is there anything that can be done to
    Mike> get Python's speed close to the speed of C#?

Can you use scipy?  erfc is implemented in the scipy.stats module,
which runs about 3 times faster than the pure python version in my
simple tests.

JDH





From adalke at mindspring.com  Mon Jul 14 12:44:59 2003
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 10:44:59 -0600
Subject: Confusing automated translators.
References: <37d6f77c.0307130932.1e3adf0d@posting.google.com> <3f11ac74$0$49101$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl> <ad052e5c.0307131718.4903430d@posting.google.com> <3F12808B.E53193B8@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <beumen$pfe$1@slb2.atl.mindspring.net>

Alan Kennedy:
> I'd love to hear of other similar phrases. And somehow I intuit
> there's people in this ng who know lots of them :-)

Related, for speech recognition:

  "It's hard to recognize speech"
  "It's hard to wreck a nice beach"

(! Only 9 Google hits for "wreak a nice beach" and none for the full
phrase?)

And I tell the story about how in 9th grade we did sentence diagrams
(a form of parse tree developed by english majors :) and the first one
was
   "Have you ever seen a pilot fish?"
Turns out this is ambiguous.  I have two uncles who are (or were) pilots,
so I was thinking - have I ever seen them fish?  Not, "ahh, a 'pilot fish',
like on sharks."  The rest of the assignment was equally difficult if you
didn't realize the difference.

That was 20 years ago, and I'm still annoyed :)

                    Andrew
                    dalke at dalkescientific.com





From kp at kyborg.dk  Thu Jul 10 05:33:24 2003
From: kp at kyborg.dk (Kim Petersen)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 11:33:24 +0200
Subject: mx odbc
In-Reply-To: <un0fnz7fu.fsf@fitlinxx.com>
References: <3f0accb5$0$13191$edfadb0f@dread15.news.tele.dk> <mailman.1057680332.32247.python-list@python.org> <3f0bce6d$0$13245$edfadb0f@dread15.news.tele.dk> <un0fnz7fu.fsf@fitlinxx.com>
Message-ID: <3f0d32e5$0$13253$edfadb0f@dread15.news.tele.dk>

David Bolen wrote:
> Kim Petersen <kp at kyborg.dk> writes:
> 
> 
>>I'm not arguing that thats not important - *but* paying 70$
>>pr. customer, is the equivalent of paying you for 1hr of support for
>>each customer [not installation mind you], where our own
>>licence/supportcost is already getting lower and lower... I find that
>>_extremely_ steep - i could and would accept such a cost for the
>>python platform (no trouble!) [except in the few (from our view) cases
>>where the user just needs a small tool.
> 
> 
> Except that if you're going to resell a product, presumably you'd go
> for the per-developer fee ($1250).
We work in teams - so that would be 1250*4 making the below calculation
18*4 (and we're not able to pull in freelancers on this kinda stuff then 
- other than paying another 1250). [Note: i'm being honest to the gist 
of the licence here - you could argue for one developer fee, rest of the 
developers run pr.CPU licence, and you build project on the developer 
machine for final wrapping]

> It'll beat the per-CPU license at
> about 18 customers (assuming one CPU per customer), and just continue
> shrinking on a per-customer basis after that.  In effect, the
> per-developer license is a one time, royalty free, license, the
> marginal unit cost of which disappears over time.  As with anything,
> the actual price is up to the owner to set, but on our part, we've
> found the economics reasonable for the functionality supplied within
> our commercial endeavors.
> 
> Is it the only way to go for database access with Python - certainly
> not.  But for us (Windows platform with ODBC sources) its worth it for
> the effort Marc-Andre has put in to best support ODBC in that
> environment.

Not arguing about Marc-Andre's fine contributions - they are excellent ;-)
I have no idea about the support (obviously) - but then i hardly ever 
buy/use support for development tools [especially not open-source ones].

> 
> Just another data point for what it's worth.
> 
> -- David


-- 
Med Venlig Hilsen / Regards

Kim Petersen - Kyborg A/S (Udvikling)
IT - Innovationshuset
Havneparken 2
7100 Vejle
Tlf. +4576408183 || Fax. +4576408188




From martin at v.loewis.de  Sun Jul 13 16:22:31 2003
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis)
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 22:22:31 +0200
Subject: =?UTF-8?B?w7HDr8Olw7jDqMOgw6sgw6TDq8O/IMOww67DscOxw6jDqcOxw6o=?=
 =?UTF-8?B?w6jDtSDDr8Oow7LDrsOtw7nDqMOqw67DoikpKQ==?=
References: <37d6f77c.0307130932.1e3adf0d@posting.google.com> <3f11ac74$0$49101$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl> <3F11D94A.7050208@removeme.free.fr>
Message-ID: <3F11BF87.9000208@v.loewis.de>

Bruno Desthuilliers wrote:
>> On second thought, what's he saying?
>>
> 
> He said :
> "?????, ?????????? ??? ??? ??????? ????? ??????(????????, ?????? ???? ? 
> exe-???? ?????????)."

That's not what he said. Instead, he said

"?????, ?????????? ??? ??? ??????? ????? ??????(????????, ?????? ???? ? 
exe-???? ?????????)."

To see that, you have to read the message in windows-1251.

I think this roughly translates into "Can you please tell me where to
find the proggie freezer (which appears to be needed to create exes)?"

The program is called freeze, and it is located in the Tools directory,
atleast of the source distribution. See the FAQ for other options to
create exes.

Regards,
Martin




From max at alcyone.com  Fri Jul 18 23:14:18 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 20:14:18 -0700
Subject: scanf string in python
References: <bf7ut5$vf8$03$1@news.t-online.com> <3F178783.41DCA40F@alcyone.com> <bf9kg9$3cm$1@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <3F18B78A.346D65A8@alcyone.com>

Bengt Richter wrote:

> Did you use the regex parens for a reason I am unaware of?
>
>  >>> import re
>  >>> re.findall(r'(\d+)', '(1, 2, 3)')
>  ['1', '2', '3']
>  >>> re.findall(r'\d+', '(1, 2, 3)')
>  ['1', '2', '3']

Habit.  In any other context, I'd want to isolate those buggers in a
group, so that's what I wrote that here.  I wasn't specifically aware
that they were unnecessary with re.findall.

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ I'm sharing the joy / I'm glowing like sunshine
\__/  Chante Moore



From jjl at pobox.com  Tue Jul 29 16:55:12 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 29 Jul 2003 21:55:12 +0100
Subject: urllib2 http status
References: <b9e4893d.0307290916.78b358b8@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <87y8yh59zj.fsf@pobox.com>

rosendo at dbora.com (rosendo) writes:

> I'm writing a http client to test some applications.
> The code below it's the core of the client:
[snip]

You're using *both* urlopen *and* add_cookie_header / extract_cookies.
Don't do that.  urlopen calls those methods itself.

Also, HTTPError is a subclass of URLError, so your second except:
suite will never be reached.  I'm not sure what the purpose of the
empty except: there is, either -- why not just let the exception
propogate to top level?

The unreleased version of ClientCookie can do Referer automatically.
Ask me if you want a copy (the release is waiting for somebody to look
at an RFE for urllib2 that I've posted).

Also, Python doesn't use semicolons <wink>, and the second 'argument'
to except receives an exception, not a exception message (string).


> Before this code we declare c = ClientCookie.Cookies(), etc......
> Then i don't know how to know the status of the response, because the
> property:
> response.info().status seems not to function like i wait, that it's
> with an 200, 301, 400, etc.....
> How can obtein this status?

If you get a returned response, it's always 200.  For non-200
responses, urllib2 always raises an exception.  It's probably a wart,
but too late to change now.

Corrected code (untested, since incomplete):

try:
    start_ts = time.time()
    request = urllib2.Request('http://%s%s' % (req.host, req.path),
                              req.data, req.headers)
    request.add_header("Referer", 'http://%s%s' % (req.host, req.path))
    c.clear()
    #request = urllib2.Request('http://www.google.com')
    try:                    
        response = urllib2.urlopen(request)
        data = response.read()
        headers = response.info().headers
        #status = response.info().status
    except urllib2.HTTPError, e:
        print "URLError: ", e
        # Note: e.msg, e.code are what you want.
        # IIRC, HTTPError works just like a response object, too.
    duration = time.time() - start_ts

    print ('The result had status: 200 duration: %5.2f http://%s%s' %
           (response.info().status, duration, req.host,req.path))
except:
    print sys.exc_type,sys.exc_value
    print 'cagadita....' + str(req)


John



From pyth at devel.trillke.net  Fri Jul 25 10:37:57 2003
From: pyth at devel.trillke.net (holger krekel)
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 16:37:57 +0200
Subject: path module
In-Reply-To: <11234c14.0307211016.344d40bc@posting.google.com>; from jason.orendorff@lumigent.com on Mon, Jul 21, 2003 at 11:16:57AM -0700
References: <1057651068.5348.386.camel@lothlorien> <20030708113219.H6906@prim.han.de> <mailman.1057686613.6463.python-list@python.org> <11234c14.0307211016.344d40bc@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20030725163757.N6906@prim.han.de>

Jason Orendorff wrote:
> I wrote the 'path' module at:
>     http://www.jorendorff.com/articles/python/path
> 
> There was some discussion on it here:
>     http://groups.google.com/groups?th=42ab4db337b60ce3
> 
> Just a few comments:
> 
> Ian and Holger wondered why 'path' should subclass 'str'.  It's because
> a path is a string.  Benefit: you can pass 'path' objects to functions
> that expect strings (like functions in 'win32file').  I find this
> really useful in practice.

IMO you'll almost never use the following string-methods on a 'Path' object:

    capitalize center count decode encode
    expandtabs find index isalnum isalpha isdigit
    islower isspace istitle isupper 
    ljust lstrip rjust splitlines startswith
    swapcase title translate zfill

and so these methods pollute a Path object's name-space quite a bit. 
Also 'join', '__contains__', startswith etc. produce some ambigouity.

I think it's convenient enough to use "str(path)" if passing a 'path' 
instance as a string somewhere.

cheers,

    holger




From kmj9907 at cs.rit.edu  Mon Jul 28 16:45:13 2003
From: kmj9907 at cs.rit.edu (Keith Jones)
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 20:45:13 GMT
Subject: How to reverse lookup characters in list?
References: <mailman.1059365860.23474.python-list@python.org> <mailman.1059404445.29259.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2003.07.28.20.49.25.769975@cs.rit.edu>

> Or just list(string.lowercase])
> [snip]
> 

Haha.. I KNEW there was a better way to do it! It was late, I was tired, I
had list comprehensions on my mind, <insert more inane excuses here>.  :) 


Keith



From hwlgw at hotmail.com  Sat Jul  5 15:21:36 2003
From: hwlgw at hotmail.com (Will Stuyvesant)
Date: 5 Jul 2003 12:21:36 -0700
Subject: Bewildered graphs
References: <3F06BF7C.8DC6A978@noaa.gov>
Message-ID: <cb035744.0307051121.7bb856fd@posting.google.com>

> [Mark Fenbers]
> I am investigating Python for the sake of ultimately generating hydrographs
> (such as this: http://ahps.erh.noaa.gov/iln/ahps/RiverDat/gifs/prgo1.png)
> on-the-fly from a web server cluster.

You are thinking about generating a .PNG or .JPG or .GIF or something
like that?

I have an idea: if your app is running on a web server cluster
already, how about generating dynamic web pages displaying the graph. 
You could for example display this whole picture with SVG
(http://www.w3.org/TR/SVG/ ).  Even a simple CGI script in Python
generating HTML plus CSS using "position: absolute" can do much like
this.  Note the BIG advantage of such a web application: everybody can
use it with their browser; no installations, compilations,
configurations.  And the best way to generate SVG or HTML with Python
from CGI is just using the string library and writing your own
functions for things you notice you do often.

[
I *know* they plan to deprecate the string library.  But most web
hosting Pythons are still 1.5.2 :-!
]

-- 
Do you feel lucky punk?
Make my day.



From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Thu Jul 31 04:01:40 2003
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 09:01:40 +0100
Subject: PIL & TIFF transparency?
References: <bPFXEJAEJ7J$EwfY@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
 <a4638b9b.0307301650.65e6f08b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <h4up5LAkzMK$EwyI@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>

In article <a4638b9b.0307301650.65e6f08b at posting.google.com>, Myles
<myles at geocities.com> writes
>Robin Becker <robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message news:<bPFXEJAEJ7J$Ewf
>Y at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>...
>> Has anyone done transparency with PIL & TIFF? I'm using PIL to generate
>> a preview TIFF for embedding into an eps file and am being asked for the
>> TIFF to support transparency.
>
>Simple example that makes pure white areas of an RGB image transparent
>(there's probably a better way to create the mask, and a better way to 
>add the mask to the image, but this gives you a starting point):
>
>import Image, ImageChops
>im = Image.open('/junk/pickme.png')
># create mask (will become alpha band i.e. transparency)
>mask = im.point(lambda i : i == 255 and 255)   # create RGB mask
>mask = mask.convert('L')                       # mask to grayscale
>mask = mask.point(lambda i : i == 255 and 255) # mask to B&W grayscale
>mask = ImageChops.invert(mask)
># merge mask with image
>R, G, B = im.split()
>nuimg = Image.merge('RGBA', (R, G, B, mask))
>nuimg.save('/junk/out.tif', 'tiff')
>
>Regards, Myles.
thanks very much, I didn't know the TIFF format even supported
transparency till yesterday and now you say the PIL tiff plugin will
handle it ok. Great work pythoneers!
-- 
Robin Becker



From alanmk at hotmail.com  Sun Jul 20 10:16:48 2003
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 15:16:48 +0100
Subject: A challenge to the ASCII proponents.
References: <mailman.1058278343.23104.python-list@python.org> <bf167a$pvt$1@panix2.panix.com> <ufzl7rdno.fsf@online.no> <3F142A58.80426AA4@hotmail.com> <2259b0e2.0307161620.4a9353f1@posting.google.com> <Xns93BB246FDDBCFJanC@213.118.75.80> <3F168011.3AEB3EFC@hotmail.com> <3F172442.2040907@v.loewis.de> <oprsg8jf1xttxc4i@news.t-online.de> <3F195CC4.D426E416@hotmail.com> <slrnbhjm31.tp.bignose-hates-spam@rose.localdomain.fake>
Message-ID: <3F1AA450.765D07FD@hotmail.com>

Alan Kennedy wrote:

>> One person, Bengt, said that he couldn't see it

Ben Finney wrote:

> This is identical to the justification of "$BIGNUM percent of our
> target users use browser $BROWSER, so we can ignore the rest and
> use methods only viewable by browser $BROWSER."

Hmm, I fail to see the connection here. Fair enough, I made a mistake
in structuring my original xml snippet. I didn't attempt to address
the fact there are still some browsers out there that don't do XML.
Bengt corrected that mistake by providing an HTML snippet that works
in
non-XML browsers as well, i.e. a superset of the set I covered. Given
the current market breakdown for browsers, I guesstimate that Bengt's
snippet worked for > 99.9% of recipients.

> Which quickly leads to "You must use $BROWSER to view this site". 
> No thanks.

No, that's the precise opposite of the point I was making. My position
is "You must use markup-capable software to perceive what I've
written. Your choice of software is entirely up to you: the only
requirement is the ability to process (x|ht)ml". I try to avoid
platform/language/os/browser dependent anything: that was the whole
point of the post.

> Provide a method that degrades gracefully to ASCII, the current
> standard; then I'll be interested.

#------------------------------------------------------------
snippet = """<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?>
<verb>&#x3b3;&#x3af;&#x3b3;&#x3bd;&#x3c9;&#x3c3;&#x3ba;&#x3c9;</verb>
"""

def is7bitclean(s):
    for c in s:
        if ord(c) > 127:
            return 0
    return 1

if is7bitclean(snippet):
    print "Yep, it's clean."
else:
    print "Thou hast broken the rules."
#------------------------------------------------------------

Is that what you meant by "graceful degradation to ASCII"?

The 7-bit cleanness of my original snippet was the reason why it
arrived safely in everyone's "inbox".

Bengt's even-further-travelling HTML snippet is also 7-bit clean.

And if the message structures used in the protocol transporting the
messages were encoded in XML, you wouldn't even have seen any encoding
declarations or pointy brackets, or had to copy&paste.

--
alan kennedy
-----------------------------------------------------
check http headers here: http://xhaus.com/headers
email alan:              http://xhaus.com/mailto/alan



From nholtz at docuweb.ca  Mon Jul 28 10:29:38 2003
From: nholtz at docuweb.ca (Neal Holtz)
Date: 28 Jul 2003 07:29:38 -0700
Subject: floating point range generator
References: <Xns93B0F0F1A58A2cpl19ghumspamgourmet@62.153.159.134> <oA2Oa.30893$C83.2655519@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <7xwue3lbzy.fsf_-_@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <7O%Ua.8994$AO6.2045@nwrdny02.gnilink.net>
Message-ID: <639f17f8.0307280629.503c5533@posting.google.com>

Carl Banks <imbosol at aerojockey.com> wrote in message news:<7O%Ua.8994$AO6.2045 at nwrdny02.gnilink.net>...
> ...
> A more robust version would look something like this (but it still has
> problem #3):
> 
>     def frange(start, stop, step=1.0):
>         sign = cmp(0,step)
> 	for i in xrange(sys.maxint):
>             v = start+i*step
> 	    if cmp(v,stop) != sign:
>                 break
>             yield v
> 
> The most robust way to handle this is to iterpolate, i.e., instead of
> passing start, stop, and step, pass start, stop, and n_intervals:
> 
>    def interiter(start, stop, n_intervals):
>        diff = stop - start
>        for i in xrange(n_intervals+1):
>            yield start + (i*diff)/n_intervals
> 
> An IEEE 754 (whatever) geek can probably point out even more accurate
> ways to do these.


You can easily invent examples where the number of elements generated
may (or may not) suprise you.  Here is an implementation that attempts
to account for some of the problems of floating point arithmetic:

# (See  http://www.python.org/doc/current/tut/node14.html)

def epsilon():
    """Compute machine epsilon: smallest number, e, s.t. 1 + e > 1"""
    one = 1.0
    eps = 1.0
    while (one + eps) > one:
        eps = eps / 2.0
    return eps*2.0

_Epsilon = epsilon()

def frange2( start, stop, step=1.0, fuzz=_Epsilon ):
    sign = cmp( step, 0.0 )
    _fuzz = sign*fuzz*abs(stop)
    for i in xrange(sys.maxint):
        value = start + i*step
        if cmp( stop, value + _fuzz ) != sign:
            break
        yield value

And we can generate a bunch of test cases to compare this
implementation with the first one above:

for step in frange( 0.0, 1.0, 0.01 ):
    for stop in frange( 0.01, 10.0, 0.01 ):
        l1 = [x for x in frange( 0.0, stop, step )]
        l2 = [x for x in frange2( 0.0, stop, step )]
        if l1 != l2:
            print stop, step, len(l1), len(l2)
            print repr(stop), repr(step)
            print l1
            print l2
            print

The first of many the differences noted is this:

0.06 0.01 7 6
0.060000000000000005 0.01
[0.0, 0.01, 0.02, 0.029999999999999999, 0.040000000000000001,
0.050000000000000003, 0.059999999999999998]
[0.0, 0.01, 0.02, 0.029999999999999999, 0.040000000000000001,
0.050000000000000003]

Under most normal output conditions, you would think that the stop
value was 0.06 and the step was 0.01, so you would expect to get 6
elements in the sequence.  Yet the first implementation gives you 7.
This might be surprising, as under most output conditions the last
value would appear to be equal to the stop value.  Of course, the
actual stop value is just slightly greater than 0.06.  The second
implementation gives you 6 elements in the sequence; though it can be
argued which is "correct", the second implementation is probably less
surprising in most cases.

This is just another example, of course, of the idea that if it
really, really matters how many elements are in the sequence, don't
use floating point arithmetic to control the # of iterations.



From chema-news at chema.homelinux.org  Sun Jul 20 06:23:24 2003
From: chema-news at chema.homelinux.org (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Jos=E9_Mar=EDa?= Mateos)
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 12:23:24 +0200
Subject: "Pure Python" MySQL module like Net::MySQL
References: <bfddmi$7nk$1@eeyore.INS.cwru.edu>
Message-ID: <slrnbhkrcr.2do.chema-news@chema.homelinux.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

In comp.lang.python, Ravi (rxs141 at cwru.edu) wrote:
> I did some googling, and found that there doesn't seem to be a pure 
> python MySQL communication module. There is one for perl however, 

	I think there's a MySQLdb package for Python that might fulfill
your needs.

	Regards,

	chema.

- -- 
Chema Mateos - RinzeWind 		| Take out the "-news" in my e-mail address
#debian-es irc.freenode.net		| if replying. Message will be eaten by
Jabber ID - rinzewind AT jabber.org	| /dev/null if you don't.
           GPG-key: http://chema.homelinux.org/~chema/key.asc

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQE/Gm2c9P6GbSlI+hkRAg+dAJ9MQWl33yv7+nRkKCWZjLixguW8DACgjQ+D
sxGBFj4nUORjCOq4pgIoEHI=
=dU1C
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----



From wim_wauters at skynet.be  Wed Jul  9 14:27:29 2003
From: wim_wauters at skynet.be (WIWA)
Date: 9 Jul 2003 11:27:29 -0700
Subject: SNMP support for Python under Windows
Message-ID: <538fc8e.0307091027.1825b454@posting.google.com>

I'm looking for SNMP support in Python. I have found pySNMP, but I'm
not sure whether this works under Windows as well. A few questions:

1) Where do I need to install the pySNMP files?
2) What do I have to do in order to be able to write somethin like: 
   "from pysnmp import session"

Thakns in advance for all input



From writeson at earthlink.net  Mon Jul  7 17:26:23 2003
From: writeson at earthlink.net (Doug Farrell)
Date: 7 Jul 2003 14:26:23 -0700
Subject: re module substitution confusion
Message-ID: <88bc63c6.0307071326.3eb60848@posting.google.com>

Hi all,

I'm trying to do the following from within a code module:

import re

# text to match
text = "Good morning x something /x, how are you today x something
else /x"

# pattern to match
regex = re.compile("(x)(.*?)(/x)", re.DOTALL)

# find first match
m = re.search(regex, text)

# keep looking while there are matches
while m != None:
    # substitute in some other text for the exact match
    text = re.sub(m.group(), "Mr. Phelps", text)

    # find the next match
    m = re.search(regex, text)

print text

This works within the Python shell, but I can't seem to make it work
from within a program. It would seem like the re.sub(m.group()...)
would work fine as m.group() just returns the matched string
completely.

Any help would be greatly appreciated,
Doug Farrell



From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Tue Jul 29 10:11:09 2003
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 29 Jul 2003 10:11:09 -0400
Subject: Casting stones (was Re: Debugging Python ?)
References: <mailman.1059409013.10134.python-list@python.org> <ef72fb2b.0307281449.6b144be7@posting.google.com> <3c91a864.0307282013.2acb2d1f@posting.google.com> <84fc4588.0307290453.52671e11@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bg5v9t$lt$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <84fc4588.0307290453.52671e11 at posting.google.com>,
Anand Pillai <pythonguy at Hotpop.com> wrote:
>
>It would be nice if you could give a name to your email address, i.e if
>you are not that paranoid as it seems.

Top-posting is more annoying IMO.  I remember e-mail addresses better
than names, anyway.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

This is Python.  We don't care much about theory, except where it intersects 
with useful practice.  --Aahz



From amk at amk.ca  Thu Jul 31 11:19:10 2003
From: amk at amk.ca (A.M. Kuchling)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 10:19:10 -0500
Subject: time, calendar, datetime, etc
References: <153fa67.0307300326.45a29380@posting.google.com> <mailman.1059593025.652.python-list@python.org> <bg9utn$59g$1@news7.svr.pol.co.uk> <mailman.1059656902.23276.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1sScnW0Sv7DzrrSiRTvUpQ@speakeasy.net>

On Thu, 31 Jul 2003 08:06:29 -0500, 
	Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com> quoted:
>     Ben> doing... I'm just a newbie who's found date and time handling in
>     Ben> Python to be confusing, and thought I'd mention it. (And I am the
>     Ben> original poster, btw.)  If nobody else agrees, maybe it's not
>     Ben> really a problem.

It's also not very hard to write a PEP; start with an existing PEP for the
headings, and skim PEP 1 for the PEP life cycle.  

Parsing of date/time formats is the big omission from 2.3's date support and
the big advantage that mxDateTime still has.  With 2.3 you still have to
roll your own parser for ISO-8601 format or whatever.  Fixing the rfc822
module is probably the largest problem; we can't just change getdate() to
return a datetime instead of a 9-tuple, so it'll have to be supported as a
new method.  The standard library should probably use datetime as much as
possible, but backwards-compatible 9-tuple-based interfaces will still need
to be supported.

--amk                                                    (www.amk.ca)
Hello! I'm the Doctor. I believe you want to kill me.
      -- The Doctor, in "Silver Nemesis"



From ta-meyer at ihug.co.nz  Tue Jul 22 21:33:39 2003
From: ta-meyer at ihug.co.nz (Tony Meyer)
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 13:33:39 +1200
Subject: [OT] RE: Possible use of Python for a voting machine demo project -- your feedback requested
In-Reply-To: <1ED4ECF91CDED24C8D012BCF2B034F13026F8E3D@its-xchg4.massey.ac.nz>
Message-ID: <1ED4ECF91CDED24C8D012BCF2B034F130212AB7C@its-xchg4.massey.ac.nz>

> Spelling variations cause some challenge.  For example,
> B WRIGHT
> BILL WRIGHT
> WILLIAM WRIGHT
> WILL WRIGHT
> WILIAM WRIGHT
> WILLIAM WRITE
> might all refer to the same person.

I don't understand you crazy Americans :)  Names aren't unique identifiers -
what happens when I write in "William Wright", meaning William Wright that
lives next door to me, and you write in "William Wright", meaning William
Wright who lives a few streets away from me? (Assuming that William Wright
wins, is the the first guy by that name who stands up that becomes
president?)

=Tony Meyer





From richardc at hmgcc.gov.uk  Wed Jul 16 06:40:52 2003
From: richardc at hmgcc.gov.uk (richardc)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 11:40:52 +0100
Subject: Python Quiz
References: <84fc4588.0307152253.20858619@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3f152bb4$1@mail.hmgcc.gov.uk>

'Question 8'
Im no expert but wouldnt you accept that Python has 'borrowed' FORTRAN's
fixed format syntax.  I can only think of Python and FORTRAN off the top of
my head which use whitespace as part of the syntax.

As an aside, is there any reason that people like O'Reilly books use a
picture of a snake on the front cover?  Its not named after the snake.
Should we have the 'Python programming red book' (blue cover), and the
'Python pocket reference' (a 3000 page tome of a reference book).

Just my thoughts

Rich


"Anand Pillai" <pythonguy at Hotpop.com> wrote in message
news:84fc4588.0307152253.20858619 at posting.google.com...
> Hi Pythonistas,
>
> I have placed a quiz on Python on the trivia site www.funtrivia.com.
> Here is the link.
>
> http://www.funtrivia.com/quizdetails.cfm?id=139672
>
> Looks like it is the first quiz on Python on this site.
>
> Please try it out if you like quizzing.
> Let me know if there are any factual errors.
>
> Thanks
>
> ~Anand





From ricardo.b at zmail.pt  Thu Jul 17 22:43:31 2003
From: ricardo.b at zmail.pt (Ricardo Bugalho)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 03:43:31 +0100
Subject: Looking For A Wildcard File Name Parser
References: <XdIRa.16609$EZ2.6255@nwrddc01.gnilink.net>
Message-ID: <pan.2003.07.18.02.43.28.494698@zmail.pt>

import glob

On Fri, 18 Jul 2003 01:40:07 +0000, YoTuco wrote:

> I've been looking for a good wildcard file name parser. That is, some module
> in Python or something someone has made that can take a file name with the
> '*' or '?' wildcards in it, parse a list[] and give back the matches.  It
> seems like a common enough task that one would be around?  Or do I just
> have to roll up my sleeves, dig-in and learn RE?
>  
> Thanx in advance for your input.
> 
> --YoTuco
-- 
	Ricardo




From bobx at linuxmail.org  Tue Jul  8 20:06:59 2003
From: bobx at linuxmail.org (Bob X)
Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 00:06:59 GMT
Subject: ftp a file by date and name match
References: <1001ff04.0307080629.7ef1e277@posting.google.com> <mailman.1057683552.18026.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <D0JOa.10846$Hw.8027983@news2.news.adelphia.net>

"John Hunter" <jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu> wrote in message
news:mailman.1057683552.18026.python-list at python.org...
> >>>>> "Bob" == Bob  <bobx at linuxmail.org> writes:
> Perhaps you'll join the ranks of the converted?
>
> JDH

Perhaps! I am looking forward to 2.3.





From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Jul 10 16:16:14 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 16:16:14 -0400
Subject: A very short story about Python in a Nutshell
Message-ID: <3F0DC98E.BDC96606@engcorp.com>

So there I was just sitting there, minding my own business, and in walks
one of the programmers, holding "Python in a Nutshell". [1]

"Peter," he says, "this has gotta be the best book you've bought so far. [2]
Every thing I need to look up, it's got it."

THE END

(I told you it was a very short story.)

-Peter

[1] http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0596001886/qid%3D1057868151/sr%3D11-1/ref%3Dsr%5F11%5F1/102-0808187-6963307

[2] I've bought at least 50 computer books in the last couple of years.



From danb_83 at yahoo.com  Wed Jul  2 22:41:58 2003
From: danb_83 at yahoo.com (Dan Bishop)
Date: 2 Jul 2003 19:41:58 -0700
Subject: whitespace and ?asc()?
References: <3F02086D.9010300@ihug.co.nz> <mailman.1057116904.17052.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ad052e5c.0307021841.639e22de@posting.google.com>

Steven Taschuk <staschuk at telusplanet.net> wrote in message news:<mailman.1057116904.17052.python-list at python.org>...
[snip]
> Note also that at the interpreter prompt you can (some of) those
> ASCII codes in hex just by looking at the value of the string:
> 
>     $ python
>     ...
>     >>> import string
>     >>> string.whitespace
>     '\t\n\x0b\x0c\r '
> 
> If your ASCII chart doesn't have hex, continue with
> 
>     >>> 0x0b, 0x0c
>     (11, 12)
> 
> to obtain the decimal values.

FYI,

'\x0b' == '\v' (vertical tab)
'\x0c' == '\f' (form feed)



From peter at engcorp.com  Sun Jul  6 22:50:55 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sun, 06 Jul 2003 22:50:55 -0400
Subject: Using Loops to track user input
References: <bea0p6$17f$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <mailman.1057530189.2831.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3F08E00F.69360669@engcorp.com>

Gerhard H?ring wrote:
> 
> hokiegal99 wrote:
> > I don't understand how to use a loop to keep track of user input. Could
> > someone show me how to do what the program below does with a loop?
> 
> Your text book or tutorial should show that quite well, but here we go:
[snip]
> If your prof is any good, (s)he reads this newsgroup as well ;-)

You missed this one Gerhard.  In another thread, hokiegal99 already
told us "I am a funeral director trying to write a small program that 
calculates the number of years, months and days a person has lived by 
entering the year, month and day of their birth. ..."

Not homework this time. :-)

-Peter



From tomg at em.ca  Wed Jul 16 23:41:54 2003
From: tomg at em.ca (Tom Goulet)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 03:41:54 -0000
Subject: hex to signed integer
References: <vhbq0kr6ftvr0e@corp.supernews.com> <mailman.1058409374.25147.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <vhc6o2kqkf52f0@corp.supernews.com>

Steven Taschuk wrote:

>         return struct.unpack('!i', binascii.unhexlify(s))[0]

Hmm, <unhexlify> is not in <binascii> in Python 1.5.2.

> (This will not be the inverse of '%08x' % n in Python 2.4, when
> '%x' % -1 will produce '-1', but I think it does what you want.)

| >>> print "%08X" % -1294044542
| __main__:1: FutureWarning: %u/%o/%x/%X of negative int will return a \
| 	signed string in Python 2.4 and up

Argh.  Thanks for warning me.

I only want to store thirty-two bits as an integer and input and output
that value of hexadecimal in Python versions 1.5.2 through 2.4, and it's
causing me a lot of grief.  It looks like I'm going to have to resort to
<struct> for both input and output.

>         value = long(s, 16)

A second argument to <long> is not in Python 1.5.2, either.  Using
<atol> from <string> instead works.  Thanks!

-- 
Tom Goulet, tomg at em.ca, D8BAD3BC, http://web.em.ca/~tomg/contact.html



From bogal2 at comcast.net  Tue Jul 15 14:31:46 2003
From: bogal2 at comcast.net (BogAl)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 13:31:46 -0500
Subject: Can't install csv parser
References: <MPG.197b80c54e88b1489896a6@news.in.comcast.giganews.com> <3f11ba56$0$6532$afc38c87@sisyphus.news.be.easynet.net> <m3r84tivkn.fsf@ferret.object-craft.com.au> <MPG.197c88885d4542c09896a8@news.in.comcast.giganews.com> <m3u19osmp0.fsf@ferret.object-craft.com.au>
Message-ID: <MPG.197e12785eb3b7b9896ab@news.in.comcast.giganews.com>

> >> Try putting the .pyd in C:\Python22\Lib\site-packages
> 
> BogAl> Unfortunately, I'm still getting the error message.
> 
> Dave> Does it work if you put the csv.pyd file in the current directory?

Yes, it does.  What does that mean I should do now?
 



From fightplatetectonics at yahoo.com  Fri Jul 25 11:26:12 2003
From: fightplatetectonics at yahoo.com (Fightplatetectonics)
Date: 25 Jul 2003 08:26:12 -0700
Subject: [ANN] PyHtmlTable: New Python CGI table generating utility
Message-ID: <2e1f08c5.0307250726.14b82d50@posting.google.com>

What: 
  
     Html Table generation on the fly. 
  
Why: 
     Couldn't find a python equivalent to Table.pm or Table.php 
  
If you're using python cgi's to generate tables, it might be worth a look. 
 
Ultra simple example: 
 
        t  = PyHtmlTable( 1, 2, {'width':'400','border':2,'bgcolor':'white'}) 
 
        t.setc( 0, 0, "First cell", {'bgcolor':'red'} ) 
        t.setc( 0, 1, "2nd cell" ) 
        t.display() 
 
Voila, you've got a table, but wait there's more....(The bamboo wok is 
coming soon) 
 
More Features: 
 
  Autogrows table if cells set outside initial range. 
 
  Allows dynamic insertion of new rows and columns anywhere in the table 
 
  Allows setting of individual row and cell attributes via arbitrary 
  dictionaries 
  
  Allows spanning of rows and columns 
  
  Allows bulk population of table data via arrays to arbitrary locations 
  in the table. 
  
  Provides default cell attributes for tablewide uniformity 
  and the ability to override these on a cell by cell basis. 
 
It's fun, it's free, it's on freshmeat: 
 
        http://freshmeat.net/projects/pyhtmltable/ 


Cheers,

fptt.



From andy at wild-flower.co.uk  Fri Jul 18 16:34:30 2003
From: andy at wild-flower.co.uk (Andy Jewell)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 21:34:30 +0100
Subject: Python dictionary syntax, need help
In-Reply-To: <56ba0aea.0307181142.7401aa02@posting.google.com>
References: <56ba0aea.0307181142.7401aa02@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <200307182134.30354.andy@wild-flower.co.uk>

On Friday 18 Jul 2003 8:42 pm, Crew Reynolds wrote:
> I want to create a dictionary of note on/off timings and access it by
> the name of the object. The following code works for one row.
>
> a = "Hammer1"
> b = [5,45,45,45,45,50,55,57,59,61,60,59]
>
> notes = {a:b}
> print notes["Hammer1"][3]
>
> >>> 45
>
> The problem is, I want to load the data from a file to populate
> variables a and b and build a dictionary for "Hammer1" thru
> "Hammer10". That way, I can stick the name of the object in the array
> index and receive a list of note timings that I can index with an
> ordinal as in the above example.
>
> This is straight Python syntax but I'm hoping someone has done this or
> understands the syntax better than I.
>
> Thanks! Alternative solutions to this concept would be greatly
> appreciated.


So you want something like:

Python 2.2.1 (#1, Dec  4 2002, 23:43:31) 
[GCC 3.2 (Mandrake Linux 9.0 3.2-1mdk)] on linux-i386
Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
IDLE 0.8 -- press F1 for help
>>> notes={"hammer1": [5,45,45,45,45,50,55,57,59,61,60,59],
       "hammer2": [25,245,245,245,245,250,255,257,259,261,260,259],
       "hammer3": [35,345,345,345,345,350,355,357,359,361,360,359],
       "hammer4": [45,445,445,445,445,450,455,457,459,461,460,459],
       }
>>>#let's play at indexing...
>>> notes["hammer1"]
[5, 45, 45, 45, 45, 50, 55, 57, 59, 61, 60, 59]
>>> notes["hammer2"]
[25, 245, 245, 245, 245, 250, 255, 257, 259, 261, 260, 259]
>>> notes["hammer2"][5]
250
>>> notes["hammer2"][10]
260
>>> notes["hammer4"][11]
459
>>>#what keys did we have?
>>> notes.keys()
['hammer1', 'hammer3', 'hammer2', 'hammer4']

>>>#lets 'process' the dict (enumerate the keys)
>>> for hammer in notes.keys():
	print "hammer:",hammer,
	for note in notes[hammer]:
		print note,
	print

	
hammer: hammer1 5 45 45 45 45 50 55 57 59 61 60 59
hammer: hammer3 35 345 345 345 345 350 355 357 359 361 360 359
hammer: hammer2 25 245 245 245 245 250 255 257 259 261 260 259
hammer: hammer4 45 445 445 445 445 450 455 457 459 461 460 459

>>>#Ah! the hammers are in the wrong order because dictionaries don't 
>>>#preserve sequences.  We just need to sort the keys...


>>> hammers=notes.keys() #get the keys into a list
>>> hammers.sort()
>>> for hammer in hammers:
	print "hammer:",hammer,
	for note in notes[hammer]:
		print note,
	print

	
hammer: hammer1 5 45 45 45 45 50 55 57 59 61 60 59
hammer: hammer2 25 245 245 245 245 250 255 257 259 261 260 259
hammer: hammer3 35 345 345 345 345 350 355 357 359 361 360 359
hammer: hammer4 45 445 445 445 445 450 455 457 459 461 460 459
>>> #that should do it!

hope that helps
-andyj




From stacom at stacom-software.de  Fri Jul 25 08:57:57 2003
From: stacom at stacom-software.de (Alexander Eisenhuth)
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 14:57:57 +0200
Subject: data conversion question (binary string to 'real string')
Message-ID: <bfr9h7$i62j8$1@ID-155280.news.uni-berlin.de>

Hallo all there,

maby I don't see the forest because of all that trees, but :

from struct import *


# how can I convert
f = float(0.5)

# with
bin_str =  pack('!f', 0.5)

# now bin_str is '?\x00\x00\x00'


# to "3F000000" ?????


Thanks a lot for any help




From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Sat Jul 12 07:51:06 2003
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 07:51:06 -0400
Subject: Collective memory
References: <mailman.1057083728.8224.python-list@python.org> <vg88va53uha8e@corp.supernews.com> <3F09F136.6060000@srv.net> <3F0B2857.6EE3A30F@ev1.net> <1fxw51u.2b4m6zc39wulN%proto@panix.com> <slrnbgt6ls.ab5.abigail@alexandra.abigail.nl>
Message-ID: <vgvth12c4qoma7@news.supernews.com>

"Abigail" <abigail at abigail.nl> wrote in message
news:slrnbgt6ls.ab5.abigail at alexandra.abigail.nl...
> Walter Bushell (proto at panix.com) wrote on MMMDC September MCMXCIII in
> <URL:news:1fxw51u.2b4m6zc39wulN%proto at panix.com>:
> ++  Charles Richmond <richmond at ev1.net> wrote:
> ++ <Snip>
> ++ > int  *p, x, y;
> ++ >
> ++ > then:
> ++ >
> ++ >     y = x/*p;
> ++ >
> ++ > is quite different from:
> ++ >
> ++ >     y = x / *p;
> ++ >
> ++ > The first way, "/*" will begin a comment...the second way,
> ++ > you get the integer "x" divided by the integer pointed to by "p".
> ++
> ++  Ouch!! That is one reason code coloring is *important*.
>
> Nope. That's a reason why code colouring is evil. If you write code,
> and it isn't clear what you mean without the use of code colouring,
> you did something wrong. Your code shouldn't rely on a specific code
> colouring scheme to be understandable.

This assumes that someone reading the code is going to be using
a brain-dead editor. We need to get beyond that some day, and
assume that people are going to be using decent tools.

John Roth

>
> All in my opinion of course.
>
>
> Abigail





From klappnase at web.de  Wed Jul 30 05:57:54 2003
From: klappnase at web.de (klappnase)
Date: 30 Jul 2003 02:57:54 -0700
Subject: Boa-Constructor and linux-mouse
Message-ID: <a7a67196.0307300157.5a2cb352@posting.google.com>

Hello everyone,

I have just downloaded and installed Boa-Constructor and I am really
impressed. However I found that copy and paste with the middle mouse
button does not work in the editor window. Does anyone know a way to
fix this or won't this work at all?

Thanks in advance

Michael



From MK at foo.com  Tue Jul  1 10:58:19 2003
From: MK at foo.com (MK)
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 16:58:19 +0200
Subject: PyQT and Mandrake 9.1
References: <bdrsbq$2a8d$1@biggoron.nerim.net> <bdrug5$vdeid$1@ID-174077.news.dfncis.de> <bds25p$nql$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <bds7ig$vqb2g$1@ID-174077.news.dfncis.de>

"Paul Grimes" <python at grimes.org.uk> wrote

> > Be careful. QT is controlled by one company,
>
> Sort of true

I'd say it's true. What do you mean by "sort of"?
No matter what anybody says, Qt is controlled by
Trolltech, full stop.



> > and it costs money.
>
> Not true, unless you want to distribute a closed source program

So this is "sort of true", right?

An A+ for your diplomacy, however. :-)





From exarkun at intarweb.us  Wed Jul 23 03:37:56 2003
From: exarkun at intarweb.us (Jp Calderone)
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 03:37:56 -0400
Subject: Cluster Node Auto Discovery
In-Reply-To: <f1fd7b3.0307222211.7ccadd97@posting.google.com>
References: <f1fd7b3.0307222211.7ccadd97@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20030723073756.GA31466@intarweb.us>

On Tue, Jul 22, 2003 at 11:18:26PM -0700, Codepunk wrote:
> Hi Everyone,
> 
> I have written a specialized server in python and now I wish to look
> at making it scalable. To do this I wish to include automatic
> discovery of peer nodes operating on my network. Can anyone provide me
> a pointer as to how I do such a thing? By how to do it I mean how does
> something like that work at the network level?
> 
> ping scan the ip range?
> some sort of broadcast packet?
> udp request to entire ip range?
> 
> I am not asking for code just how is something like that typically
> done?

  Take a look at Rendezvous (http://developer.apple.com/macosx/rendezvous/)
and Zeroconf (http://www.zeroconf.org/)

  Jp




From owski at hotmail.com  Tue Jul 15 13:45:10 2003
From: owski at hotmail.com (Adam Ruth)
Date: 15 Jul 2003 10:45:10 -0700
Subject: anything like C++ references?
References: <b8c3hvsesjoumiboobml3nsnajtha99mp1@4ax.com> <mailman.1058129901.28248.python-list@python.org> <plk3hv0s1m2egf4s34jo6vjedk0q8r2mu9@4ax.com> <hflQa.48826$wk6.12216@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net> <rp94hvc8fg6h91oe7ctqq9jn9ku3nlud1k@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <f0f51c80.0307150945.3f19e48b@posting.google.com>

Stephen Horne <intentionally at blank.co.uk> wrote in message news:<rp94hvc8fg6h91oe7ctqq9jn9ku3nlud1k at 4ax.com>...
> On Sun, 13 Jul 2003 22:42:21 GMT, "Bryan" <belred1 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> >
> >> 3.  Why is there no way to reference an immutable object via a
> >> pointer, other than stuffing it into a mutable object designed for
> >> some purpose other than simple pointer behaviour?
> >>
>  
> >>>> a = (1, 2, 3)
> >>>> b = a
> >>>> id(a)
>  15471760
> >>>> id(b)
>  15471760
> >>>> print b[1]
>  2
> >>>>
> >
> >
> >i just referenced an immutable object via a "pointer" and i __did_not__
> >stuff it into a mutable object as you say.
> >a and b "point" to the same object.
> 
> Technically, but what is the point? You can't do pointer-style things
> with it. You can't change the object in any way without changing the
> id, and you can't use the mechanism to, for instance, allow 'var'
> parameters.
> 
> In short, you are showing evidence of the use of pointers internally
> within Python, but that is not the same as providing pointer-like
> semantics.

I came to Python from Ada, and all I have to say is:  Pointer-like
semantics are evil.  They're worse than goto's, they're deadly,
damaging, and should be avoided at all costs.

They're an unhappy necessity, akin to stop-lights.  You need them
because roads intersect, but if roads don't intersect, don't use them!



From firehawk at yifan.net  Sun Jul 27 00:00:40 2003
From: firehawk at yifan.net (Dave)
Date: 26 Jul 2003 21:00:40 -0700
Subject: Floyd-Warshall Algorithem in Python
Message-ID: <c0b257f5.0307262000.11178c98@posting.google.com>

Hello, 

I'm looking for a Floyd-Warshall Python implementation. The only
implementation I  have seen (searching this newsgroup) used a Python
library called "Numeric". This   implementation doesn't work anymore.
I was wondering whether anyone knew of any FW implementations
elsewhere, or knew how I could convert the old example to Python code
that would run on Python 2.2?

Thanks,
Dave.



From dave at pythonapocrypha.com  Sun Jul  6 20:19:41 2003
From: dave at pythonapocrypha.com (Dave Brueck)
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 00:19:41 +0000
Subject: A story about Python... sort of
In-Reply-To: <Yg3Na.97773$R73.11565@sccrnsc04>
References: <3f03f430$0$97222$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk> <mailman.1057259346.26179.python-list@python.org> <Yg3Na.97773$R73.11565@sccrnsc04>
Message-ID: <200307070019.41132.dave@pythonapocrypha.com>

On Thursday 03 July 2003 11:48 pm, Russell Reagan wrote:
> "Dave Brueck" <dave at pythonapocrypha.com> wrote
>
> > > I
> > > mean, is Linux (or Windows) 'not a viable project'??
> >
> > Well, again, neither of those are "applications level" projects.
>
> There is a rather large industry which I'll call "computer games" that is
> rather CPU intensive, and AFAIK the vast majority of those games are
> written in C/C++. It really depends on the definition of "application
> level". If we're only including things like word processors and web
> browsers in the "application level", then there isn't a great need for C++
> in the
> "application level", 

Actually, games are a particularly good example to illustrate the point:

1) In the movement away from a lower-level language, games are probably one of 
the last hold-outs since performance often means so much. Still, even games 
do make the transition - the transition away from assembly being the main 
example.

2) Even the most performance-intensive games of today are already 
transitioning towards higher-level languages - is there any major 
first-person shooter or real-time strategy game coming out these days that 
doesn't boast a powerful scripting language? With each new generation of 
games the developers try to push more and more of the functionality into 
their scripting engine leaving as little as possible behind in C/C++ - the 
render loop, *some* of the AI, etc. Not only is the game customizable by the 
customers, the developers themselves prefer it because of fewer bugs and it 
makes it much easier to try new and cool stuff out.

3) More and more of the performance-intensive work is handled by hardware 
nowadays anyway - both video and audio. Furthermore, the game itself usually 
relies on a pretty rich and powerful supporting library like OpenGL or even 
DirectX, which depending on the route you take can supply a ton of the 
functionality that the game developer would normally write in C or C++.

4) All of the above mean that in many cases you already *can* do some pretty 
elaborate games in higher-level languages (the games listed on Pygame are a 
great example), and there's every indication that the trend will continue.

There came a time when it was no longer economically viable to develop an 
entire game in assembly, and IMO we've *already* passed the point where it's 
no longer economically viable to develop most games entirely in C++ - the 
time to market is too long, it's too expensive to add new features, 
recovering from early incorrect decisions is too costly, etc. Games are 
moving to higher-level languages as much as they can because it's a 
competitive advantage to do so.

> but there are certainly areas where speed and memory
> efficiency is important.

Oh, nobody disagrees with that. But due to increases in efficiency and 
decreases in prices, the number of cases is shrinking wherein speed and 
memory constraints require you to drop to a lower-level language.

-Dave




From iandjmsmith at aol.com  Mon Jul 28 19:13:56 2003
From: iandjmsmith at aol.com (Ian Smith)
Date: 28 Jul 2003 16:13:56 -0700
Subject: Voting Project Needs Python People
References: <LDVSa.14955$Mc.1126731@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <7x65lv31hf.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <z8%Sa.113480$Io.9712518@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <xqxsmoyitto.fsf@cola2.ca.boeing.com> <3jhTa.115229$Io.9825106@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <bfkch9$is4$1@slb4.atl.mindspring.net> <w2BTa.116465$Io.9943199@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <2dc49b63.0307240824.4e1b2136@posting.google.com> <TEUUa.23927$Mc.1868971@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <2dc49b63.0307281513.103344ae@posting.google.com>

"Alan Dechert" <adechert at earthlink.net> wrote in message news:<TEUUa.23927$Mc.1868971 at newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>...
> Thanks, Ian.  I could not quite figure out if your binomial distribution
> calculator would be applicable.
> 
> Here's what Bill Buck ( billbuck at cox.net ) sent me.  It turns out there is a
> BINOMDIST function in Excel.  I think it might be what I want.
> 
> http://home.earthlink.net/~adechert/LOTAcceptanceCalculator.xls
> 
> Let me try to clarify what I'm after.  The paper record should always match
> the electronic record.  So the allowable defects is zero.  If there is a
> mismatch found in the sample, we don't publish the electronic tally: we take
> all the paper ballots and check them.
> 
> We are talking about an election conducted with computer-generated paper
> ballots.  The paper ballots represent the actual vote since these ballots
> are what voters actually saw, verified, and cast.  We will have an
> electronic record obtained from the computers which should match each paper
> ballot generated.  We want to use the electronic record since it will give
> us an instant result -- but we have to check it against the paper ballots to
> be sure the election result is correct.  So, in this scenario, the
> electronic count is a prediction (or preliminary tally).
> 
> So, if by the preliminary electronic tally a candidate won a race by 1
> percent, I want to know how many ballots we have to check (random sample) to
> be certain that the result predicted is true.
> 
> When I put one million into this Confidence Level Calculator, and Acceptable
> Quality Level of .01, a sample of 10,000 shows a confidence level of "1."  A
> sample of 2000 give C.L of 0.999999998  Presumably, "1" is really
> .9999999999+ more 9s.  Can we get more decimal places?
> 
> So I guess the Lot Fraction Defective is analgous to the predicted victory
> margin.  Is that right?
> 
> I would still like a standalone calculator that doesn't require Excel.
> 
> Alan Dechert


The BINOMDIST function in Excel calculates either the cumulative
probability function or the probability mass function for the binomial
distribution. BINOMDIST is usually accurate when it works but is known
to fail with large numbers of trials, small event probabilities etc.
The functions used by the calculators in
http://members.aol.com/iandjmsmith/EXAMPLES.HTM are somewhat more
robust and more accurate than BINOMDIST.

I gather what you want is to choose a sample size based on how may
mismatches there would have to be to change the result. If any
mismatches are found then you take all the ballot papers and check
them. This would mean that the closer the result was, the bigger the
sample size would have to be. In the case where the electronic count
is a dead heat all ballot papers would have to be checked!

If so then the spreadsheet at
http://home.earthlink.net/~adechert/LOTAcceptanceCalculator.xls is
doing roughly what you want. There appears to be a slight error in
there where it uses $C$4 instead of $D$4 in cells C15 to V42, although
it is irrelevant to you since the value in $C$4 is 0 anyway. If it
used =BINOMDIST() instead of =1-BINOMDIST() in cells C15 to V42 then
you would be able to see how small the probability of not seeing a
mismatch is (i.e. you don't really need more decimal places). What I'm
not sure of is whether "The Lot Fraction Defective" is analagous to
the predicted victory margin or to twice the predicted victory margin.
This would depend on whether mismatches were ignored or counted the
other way round.


The only real problem is that since the sample size could be large
relative to the population size, the binomial distribution may not
provide an adequate approximation to the Hypergeometric distribution
(I assume you will be using sampling without replacement - the
binomial is strictly only correct for sampling with replacement).


Using the Hypergeometric calculator, if we have 1 million ballot
papers and 100 mismatches could cause the result to be changed then
the probability of observing 0 mismatches will depend on the sample
size as follows

sample size	probability of failing to detect a mismatch when it might
matter
100		0.99
1000		0.90
10000		0.37
1000000		2.65e-5
2000000		2.03e-10

If we have 1 million ballot papers and 10000 mismatches could cause
the result to be changed then the probability of observing 0
mismatches will depend on the sample size as follows

sample size	probability of failing to detect a mismatch when it might
matter
100		0.37
1000		4.30e-5
10000		1.35e-44


While the calculators at
http://members.aol.com/iandjmsmith/EXAMPLES.HTM are useful in their
own right, they are really supposed to be a demonstration of how to
use the functions in myfunctions.js so people can then use the
functions in their own software! In this case what we really want is
to choose the sample size required given a total number of ballots,
the critical number of mismatches and the probability that we do not
detect a mismatch. The calculations are fairly simple and you can
build your own calculator for this quickly and easily (see
http://members.aol.com/iandjmsmith/reqss.htm).


With this calculator, we can see that if we have a million ballot
papers and the probability of failure to detect a mismatch is 1e-6,
then the minimum sample size is related to the critical number of
mismatches as follows:-

Critical 
number of 
mismatches	Sample size required
1		999999
10		748808
100		129031
1000		13714
10000		1374
100000		132
200000		62
300000		39
500000		20
900000		6


Ian Smith



From elw at euc.cx  Wed Jul 30 02:28:26 2003
From: elw at euc.cx (Jeffrey P Shell)
Date: 29 Jul 2003 23:28:26 -0700
Subject: Web tool kit : pro - cons ?
References: <3f23003f$0$266$ba620e4c@reader0.news.skynet.be> <3f24f3f7@shknews01>
Message-ID: <240b1020.0307292228.35cc8d08@posting.google.com>

"Remi Delon" <remi at cherrypy.org> wrote in message news:<3f24f3f7 at shknews01>...
> The problem is that most people are "experienced users" with only a few of
> the frameworks.
> In order to find out all the little caveats of a perticular framework, one
> has to use it for quite a big project (I'd say at least 6 months).
> I don't think any of us have developed such big projects with more than,
> say, 2 or 3 python frameworks. (in my case, I've only used Zope and CherryPy
> for "real" applications. I've only "played" with the other frameworks).
> This is why it is hard to have one person make a comparison of all the
> frameworks ...

That's very true.  I've been using Zope, Principia, and Bobo almost
back to their inception, and can't even grok other systems now.  No
offense to CherryPy or any of the other ones.  But once you get
proficient in a tool, it's hard to spend time with another when time
is..  Well.  What is time and who has it anyways?  :)

I've played with a couple of other Python web frameworks, I've even
written my own (way back in the day when WebObjects was the only major
app server on the market and *everything* else was home grown, and
Java was still a cute way to add animation to web pages ;).  But aside
from the big jump to learning Zope 3 - I know I don't see any time in
my future for doing a serious (ie - more than 'hello world' or
'guestbook') evaluation of anything else.  :\.

In response to the original question - things that I would use when
evaluating kits today is community size, maturity, etc.  There are a
lot of "cool little idea" web kits that never reach completion, or
anything close to it (again - having written one, I know).  Some
projects have been around for a while and have yet to reach a '1.0'
milestone.  Some of those may just be reaching for perfection.  Others
are left to languish while the core developers have to work for a
living, or find other solutions.  Others may be in a state of 'yeah,
the current version is good enough', but a real 1.0 release never
quite seems to get made.  For the past few years, I've made the SCM
decision for myself to never run on beta software, and seldom use
pre-1.0 software, no matter how good it may be, because we've got
dependability requirements from customers that we have to ensure are
met.  And software that looks immature generally gets ranked low on
the list of evaluations.  (of course, having a low quality 1.0 release
is not a good idea either ;)

Quixote and CherryPy both deserve attention for their templating
systems.  I like what I've seen of each more than the many variants of
"Python Server Pages" out there that try to embed Python in HTML
(Python's block structure just makes this already messy style
messier).

Database Abstraction is another key issue.  Zope gets points here not
only for the built in ZODB database, but for SQL Methods / Database
Adapters.  There is nothing in Zope that is tied to Postgres, MySQL,
Oracle, Sybase, SQLite, etc.  Yet it's always been able to use any of
them since before it was Zope.  There's just a nice simple abstraction
layer that one seldom has to think about.  Other tools try the O-R
mapping route for abstraction with varying degrees of success. 
SkunkWeb has PyDO, WebWare has one (I can't remember its name right
now).  Zope's model is nice because it's not intrinsic to Zope that
you use SQL - it's just a nice model to plug into if you need it, when
you need it.  I don't know how other toolkits stack up here.  Some may
just say "go find a Python adapter that works for you and do what you
want with it", which seems to be as good of a way to go as any.

Enterprise scalability could be another factor.  SkunkWeb has
aggressive caching and tight integration with Apache as one of its
features for delivering dynamic chunks of content under high load. 
Zope has its built in transaction system, which makes database work
nice.  Database adapters and other objects can integrate themselves
into this system to ensure that either everything succeeds and gets
written, or everything fails and rolls back, and you're not stuck with
some data in one database but none in another (it's only as infallible
as the systems that support it.  Thank gods for InnoDB in MySQL!). 
Transactions are automatic (but can be handled manually, if desired) -
a web request begins a transaction, and a successful writing of the
response commits it.  Any exceptions raised abort it.  This becomes
one of those little subtle platform niceties that you forget about but
are eternally grateful for.  Usually ;).  Other toolkits may vary - it
depends on what itch they were initially trying to scratch when they
started.  The transaction stuff in Zope goes back to Bobo and the
early BoboPOS (which became the ZODB) because of the work I assume
Digital Creations was doing with databases.  Having gone through the
pain of half written text files generated by mediocre self-written CGI
scripts, this became an early favorite feature :).

In any case, this is just my evaluation list as it would stand today,
given my experiences over the last couple of years.  I don't know how
rosy Zope would come up today if I were evaluating different
frameworks under this criteria - I always think it would be nice to
have time to really step back and evaluate some different options, if
only to get a fresh perspective (kindof like taking some time to
evaluate Ruby might give one a fresh perspective on programming
Python).  But - there's just no time in the schedule to justify such
an undertaking, for better or for worse...



From webmaster at dte.ua.pt  Tue Jul 29 07:39:06 2003
From: webmaster at dte.ua.pt (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?M=E1rio_Gamito?=)
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 12:39:06 +0100
Subject: problems in a python script
Message-ID: <3F265CDA.9090004@dte.ua.pt>

Hi,

I've downloaded the 30 days trial version of editize and followed the 
instructions in http://plone.org/Members/tlynch/HowToIntegrateEditize
to install it.

Everything runs smoothly  until the creation of munge.py as explained in 
the above link. I get an error saying

  " Script line 4
     inputvalue = inputvalue.replace("\r", "")
     ^
SyntaxError: invalid syntax"

A curious thing is that when i save it, not only i get the above error, 
but also the lines begining with double cardinal (##) are gone!!!

Also the text refers to "Note: you might need to edit the line calling 
munge in wysiwyg_support to reflect the name of your folder where all 
the Editize stuff is stored."

Where is this is done ?

Thank you in advance for your time and patience.

Warm Regards,
M?rio Gamito




munge.py
-----------------------------------------------------
## Script (Python) "munge"
    ##bind container=container
    ##bind context=context
    ##bind namespace=
    ##bind script=script
    ##bind subpath=traverse_subpath
    ##parameters=inputvalue
    ##title=

    # to guard against files that might contain only
    # returns or linefeeds, we will delete each separately
    # rather than trying: replace("\r\n", "")
    inputvalue = inputvalue.replace("\r", "")
    inputvalue = inputvalue.replace("\n", "")
    inputvalue = inputvalue.replace("'", "&#039;")

    return inputvalue
------------------------------------------------------------





From bokr at oz.net  Mon Jul 14 16:24:57 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 14 Jul 2003 20:24:57 GMT
Subject: Accessing an instance's __init__ args from outside the class
References: <sfAQa.21645$O55.673402@wagner.videotron.net>
Message-ID: <bev3ip$le2$0@216.39.172.122>

On Mon, 14 Jul 2003 11:46:38 -0400, "Alexander Eberts" <alex_eberts at videotron.ca> wrote:

>I'm new to python so appologies to the group if this question is asked
>often. I'm wondering if it's possible to query an object instance to find
>out what arguments the instance's __init__ function was called with from
>*outside* the class's local namespace. For example, if I define a class Foo
>as follows:
>
>import sys
>class Foo:
>    def __init__(self, *args):
         self.args = args                  #[1] save args tuple as attribute of instance (self)
>        print args                        # no problem here
>
>...and then create an instance of Foo:
>
>>>> someobj = Foo('bar', 'bleck')
>('bar', 'bleck')
>
>Now, I'd like to be able to find out what arguments someobj was called with.
>So first I tried:
>
>>>> print someobj.args
This would work if you saved the args in the __init__ method, like [1]
>
>but I get: "AttributeError: args"
>
>so then I tried:
>
>>>> print some_obj.__init__.func_defaults
               ^--?? this is out of a different test sequence, presumably
>
>which returns an empty tuple
You would have gotten something if your __init__ had had some parameters with default
values specified (BTW, notice that the 'bar' argument got used for x, and the rest went to *args).

e.g.,
 >>> class Foo:
 ...     def __init__(self, x='x default', *args):
 ...         self.args = args
 ...         self.x = x
 ...         print x, args
 ...
 >>> someobj = Foo('bar','bleck','fnord')
 bar ('bleck', 'fnord')
 >>> someobj.x
 'bar'
 >>> someobj.args
 ('bleck', 'fnord')
 >>> print someobj.__init__.func_defaults
 ('x default',)
 >>> someobj.__dict__['args']
 ('bleck', 'fnord')

>
>and then I tried:
>
>>>> some_obj.__dict__['args']
This is closely related to some_obj.args, but the latter form will look in the class __dict__ too
and in base class __dict__'s, so e.g., the class could have a default value shared by all instances
that don't shadow it by having instance attributes of the same name.

>Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "<interactive input>", line 1, in ?
>KeyError: args
>

You get several attaboys for trying stuff interactively and posting by copy/paste from actual stuff ;-)

>No dice.. Is there any way to find out what arguments an object was called
>with? Are the args stored with the instance? I scoured the python faq but
They aren't stored automatically (though you could inherit from a base class
that did it for you, so it would appear automatic, but never mind that for now ;-)

The ususal thing in __init__ is to save all the things you want the instance to
carry as named attributes, e.g., self.args. You can also set up stuff that wasn't
passed as args, e.g., self.flavors = ['strawberry', lemon', 'lime'], or self.count=0,
etc. They show up later as some_obj.flavors, some_obj.count, etc. (using your instance name).

>there are no answers (that I could see) to this question. Any help would be
>much appreciated.
>
HTH,

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Thu Jul 10 10:54:20 2003
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 10:54:20 -0400
Subject: numpy and scipy for Python 2.3
References: <221d8dbe.0307100102.425cbba8@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <gpScnTZ8S6qA45CiU-KYuQ@comcast.com>

<srijit at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:221d8dbe.0307100102.425cbba8 at posting.google.com...
> Hello,
> I am interested to have numpy and scipy for Python 2.3 on Windows
98.

So am I and lots of other people.  However, Py2.3 does not yet exist,
only Py2.3b2.

> Only binaries for 2.1 and 2.2 are available for download now.

Betas are meant to be temporary and are not meant for production use.
While exension writers might create binaries to help test the beta and
compatibility therewith, they generally do not publically release such
test versions.  They may not work, will soon be obsolete even if they
do, and would too likely generate unwanted support requests.

When Python 2.3 is finished and released, Windows binaries for major
add-ons should soon follow

> Can I easily create binaries for numpy and scipy from the sources?
If
> so how?  I am looking forward for some guidance.

Be patient?

Terry J. Reedy







From jtuc at ev1.net  Tue Jul 29 10:55:52 2003
From: jtuc at ev1.net (Jordan Tucker)
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 14:55:52 -0000
Subject: Cannot register dll created using "py2exe --com-dll"
References: <57de9986.0307290052.688e54c5@posting.google.com> <467c9d67.0307290640.4f7d87b1@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <vid2nomiq77uff@corp.supernews.com>

A fix that seems to work (at least it lets DllRegisterServer succeed) is inserting
the following before the aforementioned line:

      scriptDir = None
      if hasattr(sys, 'argv'):
        scriptDir = os.path.split(sys.argv[0])[0]

This allows registration, but now when I try to instantiate one of the objects
defined in my dll from the interpreter, I get the following error:

Fatal Python error: PyThreadState_Get: no current thread

This also happens with the server example included. Do I have to use something
other than win32com.client.Dispatch to connect to an inproc server from a
dll? I think I've used it before to do the same thing with non-py2exe dlls.

Jordan



From max at alcyone.com  Sun Jul 13 03:55:22 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 00:55:22 -0700
Subject: anything like C++ references?
References: <000301c348c7$3c501980$21795418@dell1700> <mailman.1058050638.14404.python-list@python.org> <jf22hvotj4n0q5tpkg627e3jv61norf93n@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3F11106A.65FDA8F2@alcyone.com>

Tom Plunket wrote:

> IMHO the variable binding discussion doesn't answer the question,
> it just provokes more questions.  :)

But the answer to those questions is usually something ending with,
"Look, Python just doesn't handle variables the same way C++ does."  :-)

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ It seems like Karma's making his rounds
\__/  Kina



From pyth at devel.trillke.net  Tue Jul  8 16:39:35 2003
From: pyth at devel.trillke.net (holger krekel)
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 22:39:35 +0200
Subject: Newbie - Directory/File Creation
In-Reply-To: <3F0B2724.D87E5D9F@engcorp.com>; from peter@engcorp.com on Tue, Jul 08, 2003 at 04:18:44PM -0400
References: <68a42404.0307081209.4baafd5@posting.google.com> <3F0B2724.D87E5D9F@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <20030708223935.L6906@prim.han.de>

Peter Hansen wrote:
> Michael J Whitmore wrote:
> > 
> > If I do the following, a file is created in the current working
> > directory:
> >     TestFile = open("TestTest.out", 'w')
> > 
> > My question is how to create a file that includes a pathname without
> > having to mkdir beforehand.
> >     Example:
> >     TestFile = open("TestDir\TestTest.out", 'w')
> > 
> > Shouldn't open be smart enough to create the TestDir directory before
> > creating TestTest.out   ?
> > 
> > Is there another command that will do this?
> 
> Use os.path.makedirs() first, although if you really want to do this,

Peter means os.makedirs() of course. 

> I would separate the "ensure this directory exists" part from the 
> "create this file" part.  Or combine the two, but call your own method
> which internally checks whether the path exists (os.path.split() and
> os.path.isdir() are good for part of this), then creates it if necessary
> using makedirs(), then finally creates the file and returns the
> file object.

Michael might be interested in the following "makepath" recipe:

http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/117243

cheers,

    holger




From export at hope.cz  Fri Jul  4 01:39:27 2003
From: export at hope.cz (BMA TRADING)
Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 07:39:27 +0200
Subject: CGI script is in plain text
In-Reply-To: <1057280192.13137.24.camel@lothlorien>
References: <3F04B0A4.32692.3596CD0@localhost>
Message-ID: <3F052F2F.1426.547BB32@localhost>

On 3 Jul 2003 at 19:56, Ian Bicking wrote:

> On Thu, 2003-07-03 at 15:39, A wrote:
> > I have a webhosting account with one company.
> > They have Apache running.
> > When  I start CGI script from a web browser, the result is plain text( the copy of that script)
> > I can not access
> > httpd.conf
> > file so I changed
> > .htaccess
> > file. I put  into it
> > 
> > Options +ExecCGI
> > Sethandler /usr/bin/python.exe .py
> 
> Try renaming the file to .cgi -- as long as the #! line is right, it
> doesn't matter the extension.  Also, you may have to put the script in
> the cgi-bin directory.
> 
>   Ian
> 
Dear Ian,
Thank you for your reply.
I tried to rename it but it does NOT work.
In the same directory I can successfully run Perl script( .pl extension) but no Python 
scripts.
Any idea?
Thanks
Ladislav






From i.am at going.in.circles  Tue Jul 22 08:57:51 2003
From: i.am at going.in.circles (Richard Lee)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 12:57:51 GMT
Subject: Where can one get Python 1.4 and Pythonwin 1.0?
Message-ID: <41dqhv43pp8d8kb76r2u2sm3bnbbkic4cm@4ax.com>

Hi. I need to test and document some really old software. For that, I
have to install P 1.4 and Pwin  1.0 (the latter which is based on
P1.4).

Python.org has downloads going back to P1.5.2. And the link to version
of the earliest Win32 extensions containing Pwin corresponds to
P1.5.2. 

Thanks for any help.




From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Jul 15 23:17:55 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 23:17:55 -0400
Subject: Foreign characters
References: <f42f0868.0307151831.7e8944b0@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3F14C3E3.5FBF55B1@engcorp.com>

Tetsuo wrote:
> 
> How do I get Python to work with foreign characters? When I try to
> print them, I get a unicode error (characters not ASCII). Wasn't
> unicode invented for the express purpose of working with non-ASCII
> characters?

The FAQ might help: 

    http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw.py?req=show&file=faq04.102.htp

-Peter



From maxm at mxm.dk  Tue Jul  1 04:10:38 2003
From: maxm at mxm.dk (Max M)
Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 10:10:38 +0200
Subject: Howto: extract a 'column' from a list of lists into a new list?
In-Reply-To: <vg1mbarhe86d2d@corp.supernews.com>
References: <vg1mbarhe86d2d@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <3F0141FE.4090007@mxm.dk>

Greg Brunet wrote:


> Even better yet...  the reason I'm trying to do this is to make it easy
> to refer to a field by the field name as well as the field number.  I
> expect to be reading all of the data into a list (1 per row/record) of
> row objects. If someone wants to be able to refer to FldA in record 53,
> then I'd like them to be able to use: "row[52].FldA" instead of having
> to use "row[52][4]" (if it's the 5th field in the row).  I was planning
> on using the __getattr__ method in my row object like the following:


If that is all you want to do, this might be the simlest approach:

fields = [
     ('STOCKNO', 'C', 8, 0),
     ('DACC', 'C', 5, 0),
     ('DEALERACCE', 'C', 30, 0),
     ('D-ACCRTL', 'C', 9, 0),
     ('D-ACCCST', 'C', 9, 0)
]


def byName(field, name):
     fieldNames = {
         'name':0,
         'letter':1,
         'val1':2,
         'val2':3,
     }
     return field[fieldNames[name]]


for field in fields:
     print byName(field, 'name')


regards Max M




From owski at hotmail.com  Wed Jul 16 15:06:40 2003
From: owski at hotmail.com (Adam Ruth)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 19:06:40 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: anything like C++ references?
References: <mailman.1058377226.21359.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <20030716130631003-0600@news.xmission.com>

In <mailman.1058377226.21359.python-list at python.org> Michael Chermside  
wrote:
> Adam Ruth writes:
>> I assume that you're referring to people 'faking' pointer in Python (
>> such as wrapping variables in lists, etc.)  I'd ammend your statement 
>> to  say:    And the worst thing you can do is to obscure the issue 
>> even more by  disguising them as something else, WHEN YOU DON'T 
>> REALLY HAVE TO.  In Python, there is no situation where "you really 
>> can't avoid pointers".   It's only when you program C or C++ in 
>> Python that you think you can't  avoid pointers.  There are much 
>> better idioms to achieve the desired  results.
> 
> Look, first of all, let me say that I disagree with Stephen Horne in
> this discussion. Or, to be more precise, I think that the approach he
> is using is not one which is useful in describing Python. HOWEVER,
> that doesn't mean that there's NOTHING to what he is saying, and your
> claim that there is no situation requiring "pointers" in Python seems
> wrong to me.
> 
> Actually (to be quite pedantic) it is technically true. For instance,
> I could write a program in Python which simulated a turing machine,
> and then write the entire program to be executed on THAT. But this
> is a meaningless definition for "requiring" a feature -- by this
> definition NO feature is ever needed if the language is turing 
> equivalent without it... for instance, Python doesn't ever need
> classes, modules, dictionarys, or functions (I'm pretty sure a
> turing machine could be written which didn't use any of these).
> 
> What's more useful is to say that a feature is not "needed" if there's
> a straightforward alternate way to handle the situations where it 
> would normally be used. For instance this (using C++ syntax for 
> "references"):
>
>     def returnsMultipleValues(x, &minusFive, &timesFive):
>         """Calculates x+5, x-5, and x*5."""
>         *minusFive = x - 5
>         *timesFive = x * 5
>         return x + 5
> 
> Is unnecessary, since this:
> 
>     def returnsMultipleValues(x):
>         return x + 5, x - 5, x * 5
> 
> would work fine. However, there are some places where it IS useful to
> be able to modify a value within a routine. I have written code like
> this:
> 
>      i = [0]
>      stuff.append( makeNewComplexObject(i, 'name', 'fred') )
>      stuff.append( makeNewComplexObject(i, 'age', 17) )
>      stuff.append( makeNewComplexObject(i, 'item') )
>      stuff.append( makeNewComplexObject(i, 'item') )
> 
> where the source for makeNewComplexObject() went like this:
> 
>      def makeNewComplexObject(iBox, objName, *objArgs):
>          # increment i
>          i = iBox[0]
>          iBox[0] += 1
> 
>          if objName == 'name':
>              # some simple cases
>              return new NameObject(*objArgs)
>          elif objName == 'age':
>              # some complex cases
>              yrsOld = objArgs[0]
>              if yrsOld >= 18:
>                  return new AdultAge(*objArgs)
>              else:
>                  return new MinorAge(*objArgs)
>          elif objName == 'item':
>              # some cases that use i
>              return new IndexedItem(i)
> 
> Now, clearly, this code was inspired by C code which used an
> idiom like this:
> 
>     i = 0
>     stuff[i] = newComplexObject(i++, "name", "fred")
>     stuff[i] = newComplexObject(i++, "age", 17)
>     stuff[i] = newComplexObject(i++, "item")
>     stuff[i] = newComplexObject(i++, "item")
> 
> And certainly it *can* be rewritten in Python without "boxing" the
> variable i. However, it would also be nice to be ABLE to "box" the
> variable i. So it's not as if references would be USELESS in Python.
> I just think it'd be better handled differently (one-item list, or
> maybe a container class) rather than redefining assignment in Python
> as Stephen seems to prefer.[1]
> 
> -- Michael Chermside
> 
> [1] - Stephen doesn't want to change Python now for historical
>    reasons. But my position is that if I were inventing a NEW
>    language I'd do it Python's way by choice, because I think
>    it's better.
> 

You are correct in that there are times when pointer semantics would be 
somewhat useful, but they're never necessary.  His statement was that 
there are time that "you really can't avoid pointers".  That's not true.  
I definitely went a little overboard, and it sounds like I'm saying, 
"not only are pointers not necessary, they're never desirable".  My tone 
was a bit more knee jerk than was prudent.

Your code example isn't really about pointers, though, as the C++ 
version doesn't use pointers.  There's also another difference, the 
caller is responsible for incrementing the counter, which is quite 
different than your Python version.  There are a number of ways to write 
that without "pointers" that express the intent just as clearly, if not 
more.  The real question is what does the i represent?  If it represents 
the index of the object in the list, then this is more clear:


>      stuff.append( makeNewComplexObject(len(stuff), 'name', 'fred') )
>      stuff.append( makeNewComplexObject(len(stuff), 'age', 17) )
>      stuff.append( makeNewComplexObject(len(stuff), 'item') )
>      stuff.append( makeNewComplexObject(len(stuff), 'item') ) 

In the worst case (needing the most new code to implement) it would need 
to be written with a very small "counter" class:

>	   	class Counter(object):
>			def __init__(self, initial=0):
>				self.value = initial
>			def inc(self):
>				self.value += 1
>				return self.value

>      stuff.append( makeNewComplexObject(i.inc(), 'name', 'fred') )
>      stuff.append( makeNewComplexObject(i.inc(), 'age', 17) )
>      stuff.append( makeNewComplexObject(i.inc(), 'item') )
>      stuff.append( makeNewComplexObject(i.inc(), 'item') )   

This is just as clear as the C++ version, and more clear than the Python 
version that wraps with the list.

This example, though, doesn't really show the difference, it's too 
trivial.  All of the versions are clear enough, with the difference 
being academic. 

I would be interested in seeing a more complex example where something 
would be substantially cleaner with pointers.  I have to acknowledge the 
possibility that they exist, I don't know everything... yet :)

Adam Ruth



From justinjohnson at fastmail.fm  Sun Jul  6 21:22:50 2003
From: justinjohnson at fastmail.fm (Justin Johnson)
Date: Sun, 06 Jul 2003 19:22:50 -0600
Subject: win32service problems
In-Reply-To: <be7iov$3cj$1@news.cybercity.dk>
References: <mailman.1057237985.11859.python-list@python.org> <be7iov$3cj$1@news.cybercity.dk>
Message-ID: <20030707012250.ABE12389DD@www.fastmail.fm>

Windows 2000.  Aftering searching google for similar problems I'm
beginning to think I hit the dreaded shared section memory problem on
win2k.  Ugh...

-Justin

On Sun, 6 Jul 2003 00:18:39 +0200, "Tomas Christiansen"
<toc-01-nospam at blikroer.dk> said:
> Justin Johnson wrote:
> > I created an NT service using win32service.  This service runs as a
> > particular user on the domain and accepts connections to run commands on
> > the server.  The service is working great on most of the servers I have,
> > but on one server it fails to start
> 
> What OS'es are on the servers?
> 
> -------
> Tomas
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 




From owski at hotmail.com  Mon Jul 14 14:35:57 2003
From: owski at hotmail.com (Adam Ruth)
Date: 14 Jul 2003 11:35:57 -0700
Subject: anything like C++ references?
References: <000301c348c7$3c501980$21795418@dell1700> <iqm2hvs77lhe1m71v9b579070khbf0uv0a@4ax.com> <berqqd$ad5$1@panix3.panix.com> <brs2hv8edfv0d1fch9mha8otuulajnkh0g@4ax.com> <bes0ps$l6$1@panix3.panix.com> <qi13hv4s21i8mtr2e600jumm54hqs7tppu@4ax.com> <mailman.1058125699.26133.python-list@python.org> <sag3hv4vf884ed7ouu5cv8ofnopp9j1t12@4ax.com> <f0f51c80.0307132003.264b6894@posting.google.com> <7dc4hvslh7a8fk9p6cvsfqa1c8d44rmmnv@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <f0f51c80.0307140649.61cc1fe2@posting.google.com>

Stephen Horne <intentionally at blank.co.uk> wrote in message news:<7dc4hvslh7a8fk9p6cvsfqa1c8d44rmmnv at 4ax.com>...
> On 13 Jul 2003 21:03:59 -0700, owski at hotmail.com (Adam Ruth) wrote:
> 

> C++ has precisely one type of variable. That variable is a placeholder
> for a value of a datatype which is specified in the declaration. The
> datatype may be a pointer datatype, but so what? Pointer datatypes are
> not treated any differently than other datatype except that they, like
> all datatypes, they have their own set of functionality.

Granted.  Pointers are no different than other data types, but they
are typically used for operations that are semantically very different
than other datatypes are used for.  In that sense, they are, at a high
level, different data types.

It's like how c programming is taught has having pass by reference and
pass by value, when there is only pass by value at the implementation
level.  Pass by reference is a concept added on top of the language.
 
> C++ references are tellingly also called self-dereferencing pointers.
> They are not a distinct concept - they are syntactic sugar. I suspect
> they mainly arise out of the modern desire to disguise pointers and
> fantasize that they're not there, though they certainly work very well
> in certain contexts.

Syntactic sugar or no, they still behave differently than other
datatypes and are therefore not consistent... IMHO.

> Funny thing. When I use algebra, the variables I define don't end up
> referring to different values, functions or whatever unless I
> explicitly redefine them. When I write a definition on one piece of
> paper, the things I wrote earlier on another sheet don't change.
> 
> Seems to me that the math equivalent of assignment (defining named
> things) works very much like the 'static language definitions' as you
> put it.

The devil is in the details.  Math assignment is static assignment is
dynamic assignment.  They really are all the same thing at a high
level, but it's the implementation and the subtleties that make them
vary.

Adam Ruth



From mcherm at mcherm.com  Tue Jul  8 07:54:46 2003
From: mcherm at mcherm.com (Michael Chermside)
Date: Tue,  8 Jul 2003 04:54:46 -0700
Subject: Search for mapping solution
Message-ID: <1057665286.3f0ab1067a739@mcherm.com>

Alan Kennedy writes:
> Must ..... resist ..... temptation ..... to ..... write .... oneliners
> 
> D'oh! I'm so weak willed....
>
> >>> lines = [['fred','333','0,10'],['sam','444','1'],['fred','333','0,50']]
> >>> d = dict([(x[0], x[2]) for x in lines])

Speaking as the guy who just complained about the one-liners: "That's no
one-liner, that's just concise!"

Of course, it's the answer to a simpler question than what the OP posted. ;-)

> No more posting for me for a while. 

Please continue... anyone willing to apologize when they're wrong is worth 
hearing from.

Does-this-mean-I-have-to-apologize-for-picking-on-one-liners lly yours,

-- Michael Chermside


-------------------------------------------------
This mail sent through IMP: http://horde.org/imp/




From pablo at no.spam.pl  Fri Jul 25 04:18:15 2003
From: pablo at no.spam.pl (Pablo)
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 10:18:15 +0200
Subject: I am so impressed
References: <3f207dcc$0$137$1b62eedf@news.wanadoo.nl>
Message-ID: <bfqp5o$rdi$1@nemesis.news.tpi.pl>

> I've been looking for a nice python editor for a while. I was using a
great
> general purpose editor called EditPlus. It did the job pretty good....
>
> I've now downloaded Eclipse with the TruStudio plug-ins from www.xored.com
> and it's great!
>
> i had to share that with you

I haven't used TruStudio plugin for Eclipse but Eclipse itself is too slow
to use it for me.
Have you tried Eric3? It looks great, has a debugger. I you haven't tried it
do it. I'm impressed.

Cheers
Pablo






From mlh at furu.idi.ntnu.no  Wed Jul  9 08:52:26 2003
From: mlh at furu.idi.ntnu.no (Magnus Lie Hetland)
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 12:52:26 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: anygui newbie question
References: <54omgv8rb7p08uct892h6q1qck489gvoph@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <slrnbgo40a.87g.mlh@furu.idi.ntnu.no>

In article <54omgv8rb7p08uct892h6q1qck489gvoph at 4ax.com>, Gerard C Blais wrote:
>
[snip]
>Window comes up fine.  When I click the button, I get a run-time error
>and the traceback says my handler function has received an unexpected
>argument, "source".  As far as I can tell, "source" should be
>expected.
[snip]
>Any ideas?  Any place to look besides the on-line manual ahd Hetland's
>Practical Python?

The problem is actually addressed in Practical Python... You're using
the planned 0.2 event handler syntax (used in the Practical Python
examples), but should (for now) use the 0.1.1 syntax. In other words,
rather than

  def handler(event): ...

you should have

  def handler(**kwds): ...

or the like. There is a note about this on page 339 of Practical
Python.

>Thanks,
>
>Gerry

-- 
Magnus Lie Hetland                "In this house we obey the laws of
http://hetland.org                 thermodynamics!"    Homer Simpson



From mwh at python.net  Tue Jul  8 06:42:14 2003
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 10:42:14 GMT
Subject: anything new on the ternary operator?
References: <mailman.1057533670.9800.python-list@python.org> <%G4Oa.22187$Ey6.10119@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net> <mailman.1057555031.29406.python-list@python.org> <3F09235B.6F7DE56@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <7h3brw5papl.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

Erik Max Francis <max at alcyone.com> writes:

> There's not much doubt that the conditional operator will not be making
> it into Python in the future, but just because the BDFL has made a
> decree (although a significantly delayed one), it's a little naive to
> think that discussion of it will not continue.  This clause was in the
> PEP ("the subject better not come up again"), but I'm not sure how this
> clause will really have much effect.

Slightly astonishingly, this does really seem to work.  Consider PEP 666.

Cheers,
M.

-- 
  If I didn't have my part-time performance art income to help pay
  the  bills, I could never afford to support my programming 
  lifestyle.                                -- Jeff Bauer, 21 Apr 2000



From ggg at zzz.it  Wed Jul 30 15:07:25 2003
From: ggg at zzz.it (deelan)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 21:07:25 +0200
Subject: Webware application question
In-Reply-To: <2LTVa.13085$Oz4.4738@rwcrnsc54>
References: <2LTVa.13085$Oz4.4738@rwcrnsc54>
Message-ID: <kd89gb.2c9.ln@news1.interplanet.it>

Aaron Buhr wrote:

>     Hello all.  I am looking to rebuild our corporate website from Cold
> Fusion to Python/WebWare/Cheetah.  I am new to all three, so I apologize in
> advance if my questions are ignorant.  I do not understand how one would
> cache database connections using WebWare.  At this point I do not want to
> use Middlekit, but I would like to compartmentalize all my database
> connection code and cache it for performance.

there's a module in webware called dbpool
that caches DB connection.

you may want to check this thread on the
webware mailing list archive:
http://tinyurl.com/ijhc

i strongly suggest you subscribe both to webware anc
cheetah lists. being a newbie too i've found very
supportive people on both ML :)

bye
-- 
email: goldicus1970 AT yahoo.it
web: http://www.deelan.com




From bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au  Wed Jul  2 02:57:00 2003
From: bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 06:57:00 GMT
Subject: arbitrary long integer aritmetics
References: <bdtv1s$22dm$1@otis.netspace.net.au>
Message-ID: <slrnbg50i0.st5.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>

On Wed, 2 Jul 2003 16:46:38 +1000, Leo wrote:
> is there a python module around allow using arbitrary long integers?

The 'mpz' module provides an interface to the GNU MultiPrecision maths
library:

    <http://www.python.org/doc/lib/module-mpz.html>

but is currently deprecated.  The above URL gives references to
development on replacement multiprecision interfaces currently in
development.

-- 
 \       "Judge: A law student who marks his own papers."  -- Henry L. |
  `\                                                           Mencken |
_o__)                                                                  |
http://bignose.squidly.org/ 9CFE12B0 791A4267 887F520C B7AC2E51 BD41714B



From mhammond at skippinet.com.au  Thu Jul 31 19:08:25 2003
From: mhammond at skippinet.com.au (Mark Hammond)
Date: Fri, 01 Aug 2003 09:08:25 +1000
Subject: Win32All InvokeTypes exception after upgrade
In-Reply-To: <cd48c1f6.0307310930.571325a9@posting.google.com>
References: <cd48c1f6.0307310930.571325a9@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bgc7h4$kpc$1@arachne.labyrinth.net.au>

At the top of the makepy generated files, there are a couple of 
"default" values.  These were recently changed from 'pythoncom.Missing' 
to 'pythoncom.Empty'.  This change was made so "named parameters" would 
work in most objects.

The problem is that the semantics for COM defaults are not well defined 
- different objects use different techniques.

I guess you have 2 choices:
* Explicitly pass 'pythoncom.Missing' in these params.
* Copy your makepy generated file to a local file, rename it, change the 
defaults, and import this module for your project.

Or I guess the third option is to help me look into making this work for 
everyone.  Unfortunately, this is the first problem report I have had, 
but there have beenp lenty of success reports that the new strategy 
works better.

Mark

barry g wrote:

> When trying to upgrade my Win32All package from build 148, that came
> in the ActiveState install, to any of v150 thru v156 I start receiving
> an exception.  It apparently is related to the "output arguments" in
> the ActiveX control's methods.  If I leave the output parameters off I
> get the message at the bottom.  If I fill the arguments the function
> performs happily.
> 
> Am I missing some step or setting that makes the output parameters
> optional again?  I could change all my code to supply dummy values,
> but we have a large enough number of COM controls and function calls
> that I'd prefer to maintain the old calling style if possible.
> 
> obj.DeviceToLatLon(x,y,10,10) #works in either 148 or 156 
> (35.453, -75.2214) 
> 
> obj.DeviceToLatLon(x,y) #used to return a tuple - now generates
> exception
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "ChartNotebook.py", line 978, in OnMouseMove
>     lat, lon = obj.DeviceToLatLon(x, y)
>   File "C:\Python22\lib\site-packages\win32com\gen_py\8754AEB3-1466-11D4-A779-0050DA6B8675x0x1x2.py",
> line 62, in DeviceToLatLon
>     return self._oleobj_.InvokeTypes(37, LCID, 1, (24, 0), ((3, 0),
> (3, 0), (16389, 0), (16389, 0)),x, y, lat, lon)
> com_error: (-2147352571, 'Type mismatch.', None, 3)
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> Barry




From skip at pobox.com  Thu Jul  3 17:39:34 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 16:39:34 -0500
Subject: Python Code Snippets
In-Reply-To: <be23h6$1mfd$1@biggoron.nerim.net>
References: <be1hs0$111s$1@biggoron.nerim.net>
        <3f044c20$0$8303$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net>
        <be23h6$1mfd$1@biggoron.nerim.net>
Message-ID: <16132.41622.577481.966194@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    Aur?lien> I wish it had a better ordering than just a list, but it's
    Aur?lien> full of good stuff.

You can always buy the book.  It has both an index and a table of contents.

Skip




From kamikaze at kuoi.asui.uidaho.edu  Tue Jul 15 06:19:18 2003
From: kamikaze at kuoi.asui.uidaho.edu (Mark 'Kamikaze' Hughes)
Date: 15 Jul 2003 10:19:18 GMT
Subject: anything like C++ references?
References: <b8c3hvsesjoumiboobml3nsnajtha99mp1@4ax.com> <mailman.1058129901.28248.python-list@python.org> <plk3hv0s1m2egf4s34jo6vjedk0q8r2mu9@4ax.com> <hflQa.48826$wk6.12216@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net> <rp94hvc8fg6h91oe7ctqq9jn9ku3nlud1k@4ax.com> <slrnbh6fbc.72v.kamikaze@kuoi.asui.uidaho.edu> <tdo6hvo40qaga46ekamfe65opn2aaa9b41@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <slrnbh7l94.mti.kamikaze@kuoi.asui.uidaho.edu>

Tue, 15 Jul 2003 03:16:08 +0100, Stephen Horne <intentionally at blank.co.uk>:
> On 14 Jul 2003 23:31:56 GMT, kamikaze at kuoi.asui.uidaho.edu (Mark
> 'Kamikaze' Hughes) wrote:
>>  It looks like you've almost reached understanding, though you've been
>>given a bad start with a very idiosyncratic and monolingual
>>understanding of what "computer science" teaches--that was certainly not
>>in the classes I took, but apparently yours were different.
> Really. My computer science lessons were taught in a way that
> respected the source of most of the theory in mathematics -
> algorithms, Church's lambda calculus and that kind of stuff.
> What did your lessons teach?

  How computer programming actually works, how to make interpreted and
compiled languages, how to use them to solve problems, how to analyze
algorithms, etc....  The usual.  Among those were classes in languages
other than C, which is very broadening, and I highly recommend that to
you.  History lessons and maths are fine for liberal arts and science
credits, but they're not computer science.  As for respect, I respect
working code.  Theory without working code isn't just useless, it's an
actively harmful delusion.

>>  Since every operation in Python operates on pointers, there's no use
>>in having a special syntax for it.  You don't need all the * and & and
>>-> line noise.
> The point of the thread is not pointers - they are a side issue.

  Not so.  They are the central, the *only* issue, you just don't
realize it.  Python just does not have what you think of as "assignment"
or "variables".  It only has pointers.  If you understand and accept
that, you'll be able to use Python successfully.  If you persist in
elevating inappropriately-applied theory above reality, you will fail.

> When you use variables, you are using a concept from mathematics. In
> mathematics, variables bind to values. All values are immutable.

  That's very nice.  Python is not mathematics.  It's a programming
language.  While there are some mathematical foundations to CS, it's
primarily an engineering discipline with its own terms and entirely
different considerations.

> Python binds variables to objects, not values. For immutable objects
> this is an unimportant implementation detail. For mutable objects, it
> breaks the mathematical principle of variables being bound to values.

  Yes, it sure does.  But would you look at that, my Python code still
seems to work just fine.  Guess it just doesn't know it's violating
important mathematical principles.

  i=i+1 is just as much a mathematical heresy, but it doesn't matter,
either.

  That's because PYTHON IS NOT MATHEMATICS.

>>  Stop trying to make Python into C/C++, and you'll be happier with it.
>>Or stop using Python, if you really don't like the design philosophy.
>>There are plenty of Algol-derived languages out there.  PHP and
>>especially Perl are more C-like in their internal logic, and you might
>>find them more pleasant.
> This is bogus.
> I don't want Python to become C or C++. I want Python to respect
> principles that come from mathematics and computer science. Not for
> reasons of theory pedanticism, but because the current system can and
> does regularly cause confusion and errors.

  On the contrary, implementing the design you suggest causes confusion
and errors; we see that all the time with C newbies, confronted with
variables that may be on the stack, on the heap, or pointers to
variables that could be anywhere.  Python is internally consistent, and
this behavior only has to be explained once to be fully grasped with all
of its implications.  I have taught several previously-non-programmers
to use Python, and how names and objects worked was never once an issue
after the first lesson.  The only people who have problems with it, IME,
are those who are willfully ignorant, or who just skimmed a tutorial and
some example code rather than learning the language properly.

  Since Python has the same behavior as most of the Lisp-philosophy
languages, rather than the Algol-philosophy ones like C, yes, you do
want Python to become something it's not.

> The fact that Python claims to be a very high level language, and yet
> you have to worry about the binding of variables to objects -
> something that should be a low level implementation detail - has very
> real everyday implications.

  This is a meaningless statement.  What are those "very real everyday
implications"?  Python works just fine, and the "everything is an
object, and names just point to objects" paradigm is vastly easier to
explain to newbies than your soi-disant mathematical paradigm.

> Respect the idea of variables binding to values and suddenly the need
> for pointers becomes more obvious. You cannot abuse mutable objects to
> fake pointer functionality (another everyday fact of Python
> programming) if the binding of variables to values (rather than just
> objects) is respected.

  If you're trying to say that the trick I showed you of modifying a
list to reproduce the effect of reference arguments is not possible in,
say, C, you're wrong.  Trivially proven wrong, even, since Python is
implemented in C.  In fact, the only languages where that won't work are
those which don't allow passing complex arguments at all; some
pure-functional toy languages, perhaps.

  If you're seriously demanding that all languages adhere to a religious
observance of object and variable purity that exists in no serious
programming language, you might want to stop and consider *why* nobody
"respects" that.

  Eh, enough.  You've been shown how Python really works, and why.
Anything else is quite futile.  If you want Python to change to obey
your ideals, well, you're unlikely to effect that change; pigs will fly
and politicians will tell the truth first.  You are the only change that
can and must happen here, if only to a different and more suitable
language.  Perhaps you should write your own language, if no others are
acceptable to you.

  Good day.

-- 
 <a href="http://kuoi.asui.uidaho.edu/~kamikaze/"> Mark Hughes </a>
"The computer is incredibly fast, accurate, and stupid.
 Man is unbelievably slow, inaccurate, and brilliant.
 The marriage of the two is a force beyond calculation." -Leo Cherne



From bokr at oz.net  Fri Jul 25 21:54:19 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 26 Jul 2003 01:54:19 GMT
Subject: How to detect typos in Python programs
References: <mailman.1059157418.10022.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bfsn0b$htm$0@216.39.172.122>

On Fri, 25 Jul 2003 12:20:57 -0600, Bob Gailer <bgailer at alum.rpi.edu> wrote:

>--=======6B79482F=======
>Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-74704BF8; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
>
>At 07:26 PM 7/25/2003 +0530, Manish Jethani wrote:
>
>>Hi all,
>>
>>Is there a way to detect typos in a Python program, before
>>actually having to run it.  Let's say I have a function like this:
>>
>>   def server_closed_connection():
>>     session.abost()
>>
>>Here, abort() is actually misspelt.  The only time my program
>>follows this path is when the server disconnects from its
>>end--and that's like once in 100 sessions.  So sometimes I
>>release the program, people start using it, and then someone
>>reports this typo after 4-5 days of the release (though it's
>>trivial to fix manually at the user's end, or I can give a patch).
>>
>>How can we detect these kinds of errors at development time?
>>It's not practical for me to have a test script that can make
>>the program go through all (most) the possible code paths.
>
>consider:
>  use a regular expression to get a list of all the identifiers in the program
>  count occurrence of each by adding to/updating a dictionary
>  sort and display the result
>
>program_text = """  def server_closed_connection():
>     session.abost()"""
>import re
>words = re.findall(r'([A-Za-z_]\w*)\W*', program_text) # list of all 
>identifiers
>wordDict = {}
>for word in words: wordDict[word] = wordDict.setdefault(word,0)+1 # dict of 
>identifiers w/ occurrence count
>wordList = wordDict.items()
>wordList.sort()
>for wordCount in wordList: print '%-25s %3s' % wordCount
>
>output (approximate, as I used tabs):
>
>abost                           1
>def                             1
>server_closed_connection        1
>session                 1
>
>You can then examine this list for suspect names, especially those that 
>occur once. We could apply some filtering to remove keywords and builtin names.
>
>We could add a comment at the start of the program containing all the valid 
>names, and extend this process to report just the ones that are not in the 
>valid list.
>
That's cool. If you want to go further, and use symbols that the actual program
is using (excluding comment stuff) try:

====< prtok.py >========================================================
#prtok.py
import sys, tokenize, glob, token

symdir={}

def tokeneater(type, tokstr, start, end, line, symdir=symdir):
    if (type==token.NAME):
	TOKSTR = tokstr.upper()		#should show up for this file
        if symdir.has_key(TOKSTR):
            d = symdir[TOKSTR]
            if d.has_key(tokstr):
                d[tokstr] += 1
            else:
                d[tokstr] = 1
        else:
            symdir[TOKSTR]={ tokstr:1 }

for fileglob in sys.argv[1:]:
    for filename in glob.glob(fileglob):
        symdir.clear()
        tokenize.tokenize(open(filename).readline, tokeneater)

	header = '\n====< '+filename+' >===='
        singlecase = []
        multicase = [key for key in symdir.keys()
                        if len(symdir[key])>1 or singlecase.append(key)]
        for key in multicase:
            if header:
                print header
                print '  (Multicase symbols)'
                header = None
            for name, freq in symdir[key].items():
                print '%15s:%-3s'% (name, freq),
            print
        if header: print header; header = None
        print '  (Singlecase symbols)'
        byfreq = [symdir[k].items()[0] for k in singlecase]
        byfreq = [(n,k) for k,n in byfreq]
        byfreq.sort()
        npr = 0
        for freq, key in byfreq:
                if header:
                    print header
                    header = None
                print '%15s:%-3s'% (key, freq),
                npr +=1
                if npr%4==3: print
        print
========================================================================
Operating on itself and another little file (you can specify file glob expressions too):

[18:55] C:\pywk\tok>prtok.py prtok.py gt.py

====< prtok.py >====
  (Multicase symbols)
         tokstr:6            TOKSTR:4
           NAME:1              name:2
  (Singlecase symbols)
         append:1              argv:1             clear:1
            def:1               end:1            import:1              keys:1
            len:1              line:1              open:1                or:1
       readline:1              sort:1             start:1             upper:1
           else:2          fileglob:2           has_key:2             items:2
      multicase:2                 n:2               sys:2             token:2
     tokeneater:2              type:2              None:3          filename:3
           glob:3               npr:3        singlecase:3          tokenize:3
              d:4              freq:4                 k:4            byfreq:5
            for:8                if:8                in:8               key:8
         header:10            print:10           symdir:11

====< gt.py >====
  (Singlecase symbols)
       __name__:1              argv:1               def:1
             if:1                fn:2               for:2            import:2
             in:2              main:2             print:2               sys:2
            arg:3              glob:3

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From timr at probo.com  Tue Jul  1 00:35:41 2003
From: timr at probo.com (Tim Roberts)
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 21:35:41 -0700
Subject: (Numeric) should -7 % 5 = -2 ?
References: <87k7b6cf3d.fsf_-_@schedar.com> <mailman.1056836805.17229.python-list@python.org> <290620030817191641%pecora@anvil.nrl.navy.mil>
Message-ID: <3g32gvcolis4485956egtc35akm6lh3uq5@4ax.com>

"Louis M. Pecora" <pecora at anvil.nrl.navy.mil> wrote:

>Fredrik Lundh <fredrik at pythonware.com> wrote:
>
>> > >>> -7 % 5
>> > 3
>> > >>> Numeric.array(-7) % 5
>> > -2
>> > >>> Numeric.remainder(-7, 5)
>> > -2
>> 
>> looks like Numeric implements C semantics, which is different
>> from how Python does it.
>
>Hmmm...  "remainder" makes sense.  But "%" is mod, right.  IIRC from my
>abstract algebra days (only 30 yrs ago :-) ) The "X mod n" function
>maps onto the postive integers from 0 to n-1.  So sounds like numeric
>contradicts the math texts.  Not good since it's a math module.

That's a bit harsh.  The problem is that there is no universal agreement in
the world of computer science as to what the semantics of the modulo
operator should be when presented with a negative operand.  Contradicting
Fredrik, something I do with great reluctance, the C standard specifies
that the behavior is implementation-defined, so in fact BOTH answers
"implement C semantics".

Fortran, on the other hand, defines A mod P as A-INT(A/P)*P, which is
exactly what Numeric produces.  Since folks interested in numerical
programming often have a strong Fortran background, it is not terribly
surprising that Numeric should follow Fortran's lead.
-- 
- Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
  Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.



From adechert at earthlink.net  Mon Jul 21 04:04:10 2003
From: adechert at earthlink.net (Alan Dechert)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 08:04:10 GMT
Subject: Electronic voting with free software
References: <P9DSa.111436$Io.9552373@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <bff6jb$e8goe$1@ID-67890.news.uni-berlin.de> <slrnbhma55.si4.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local> <gGMSa.112403$Io.9622843@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <7x1xwknx1v.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <_7NSa.112455$Io.9624954@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>

"Paul Rubin" <http://phr.cx at NOSPAM.invalid> wrote in message
news:7x1xwknx1v.fsf at ruckus.brouhaha.com...
> "Alan Dechert" <adechert at earthlink.net> writes:
> > Our project incorporates a proposal for Remote Attended Internet Voting
to
> > replace the various existing absentee voting methods employed today.
>
> I wouldn't want to use the public internet that way.  It sounds like
> an invitation to launch DOS attacks against the parts of the network
> where one's political opponents live.  I don't see the need for any
> network connection as long as the election info can be delivered to
> all the polling places before the election starts.  If every election
> can be enrolled in an FEC database a few weeks before election day
> (that means the database has all the info that would get printed on a
> ballot), then the whole database can get dumped to CD-ROM or DVD-ROM
> and shipped to all the polling places in time for the election, no
> internet needed.
>
That's a thought.  It might be feasible to aggregate all the databases from
all the counties for all the contests (although these databases might be
larger than you think -- especially when you have all the audio files in all
the different languages).  However, the main problem I see is the voter
files.  You'd also need all the voter files from all the states and some of
these get updated too close to Election Day.  In other words, with remote
absentee voting -- with no pre-printed roster like you have at the precinct
polling places -- we need to ID the voter and verify registration (including
the precinct in which registered).  HAVA calls for statewide databases and
this should help a lot for cleaning up these files.  Remote poll workers
should be able to access the voter file online to verify registration.

Several studies conducted so far regarding Internet voting have turned
thumbs down on unattended voting but have concluded that attended Internet
voting should be feasible.  It's already pretty much a given that it will be
available for overseas military (perhaps as soon as 2004).

Alan Dechert





From rastm2 at aol.commorespam  Fri Jul 25 02:43:37 2003
From: rastm2 at aol.commorespam (Raymond Arthur St. Marie II of III )
Date: 25 Jul 2003 06:43:37 GMT
Subject: python assignment
References: <fbf8d8f2.0307241815.28d5637@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20030725024337.01143.00000859@mb-m22.aol.com>

Ray was tryin to follow the thread ...

Dan was talking to Tim about something.
(see below signature if your not following 
thread and want to know what it's about.)

... and Ray had a question.

>[Dan to Tim paraphrased]
>
>My solution, which I'm worried about, was this:
>
>  for x in range(n):
>    temp = [x+y for y in range(3)]   #or whatever
>    v[x] = temp + []                 #'assignment by copy'???
>

Ray's question = That last line "v[x] = temp + []",
that's equivelent to "v.append(temp)", is it not?


TIA
Ray St.Marie
Rastm2 at aol.com

Thread I got this from
>"Tim Peters" <tim.one at comcast.net> wrote in message
>news:<mailman.1058992140.17079.python-list at python.org>...
>> [Tim]
>...
>> Bjorn added more appropriate words -- it would be bad design for the
>> __iadd__ method of a mutable type to return a pre-existing object other
>than
>> self.
>> 
>> >>> a = [1, 2]
>> >>> b = [1]
>> >>> b += [2]
>> 
>> While "a == b" must be true at this point, it would be a nightmare if "a is
>> b" could be true at this point.  For immutable types it doesn't matter:
>> 
>> >>> a = (1, 2)
>> >>> b = (1,)
>> >>> b += (2,)
>> 
>> It so happens that "a is b" is not true at this point under any Python
>> released so far, but it could be true someday without causing harm.
>> 
>> Sorry for the confusion!
>
>Ok, that makes sense to me.  I still think it would be a good idea to
>put a section in the Tutorial -- perhaps under "for computer
>scientists and those who want to learn more" -- describing how Python
>binds names to objects.
>
>In particular, the fact that a list is a list of pointers, not the
>objects themselves, seems like an important point to make, even for
>relative newcomers.
>
>Here's the thing that tripped me up, and the solution I came up with,
>which I am now unsure of:
>
>#original code -- v[] is a list
>
>  for x in range(n):
>    temp = [x+y for y in range(3)]   #or whatever
>    v[x] = temp
>
>so I was quite surprised to find all members of v[] were in  fact
>pointers to one object, temp[].
>
>My solution, which I'm worried about, was this:
>
>  for x in range(n):
>    temp = [x+y for y in range(3)]   #or whatever
>    v[x] = temp + []                 #'assignment by copy'???
>
>So I'm still unclear as to whether an expression like temp+[] is
>defined as returning a new list or not.  Seems like it might be
>undefined, since either way is arguably 'correct'.
>





From duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk  Thu Jul 24 03:48:32 2003
From: duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk (Duncan Booth)
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 07:48:32 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: The global statement
References: <pan.2003.07.23.08.06.17.301516@intnet.mu> <pan.2003.07.23.15.14.52.430267@intnet.mu> <Xns93C1A6E45488Eduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1> <mailman.1058999017.16056.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Xns93C257B821118duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

Andy Jewell <andy at wild-flower.co.uk> wrote in
news:mailman.1058999017.16056.python-list at python.org: 

> I found it easier to envisage the Python global statement as the
> inverse of the Pascal/Modula/C  concept:

Indeed, Pascal/Modula/C say "here's a variable, use it anywhere! Program 
structure? Who needs it?". Python, OTOH, requires you to say near the point 
of use "I am going to break the rules of good program design, but just for 
this function."

In some ways this is analagous to the COMEFROM statement (see 
http://www.fortran.com/fortran/come_from.html). Just not very.

-- 
Duncan Booth                                             duncan at rcp.co.uk
int month(char *p){return(124864/((p[0]+p[1]-p[2]&0x1f)+1)%12)["\5\x8\3"
"\6\7\xb\1\x9\xa\2\0\4"];} // Who said my code was obscure?



From jgoerzen at complete.org  Thu Jul 24 17:28:09 2003
From: jgoerzen at complete.org (John Goerzen)
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 16:28:09 -0500
Subject: Towards thread groups?
Message-ID: <87n0f33992.fsf@complete.org>

Hello,

I am the author of OfflineIMAP[1], a program that currently is a heavy
user of threads.  For various reasons (see below), thread groups are
something that is highly desirable for me in Python.  Is anyone aware
of an implementation of thread groups for Python?  Is anyone else
working on this?  Is anyone else experiencing this sort of pain?

Here's why I need this:

OfflimeIMAP is a bi-directional IMAP/Maildir synchronization system.
It can synchronize multiple accounts at once.  Within a given account,
it can synchronize multiple folders at once.  Within a given folder,
it can synchronize multiple messages at once.  All these simultaneous
actions are handled by threads.  (In case you're wondering, there are
bounds in the system to prevent this all from running away.)

Right now, error handling is not very good.  Let's say that one of the
5 connections to an IMAP server for Account A dies on us and we get a
network exception.  Ideally, with this condition, I would shut down
all the other threads processing Account A, terminate its open
connections, and restart it.  (An unexpected error can leave
OfflineIMAP with an incorrect idea of what is on the server, so the
safest thing to do is reset the algorithm and thus get updates from
the server on what exactly it knows about.)

However, I can't do that with the current system.  The best thing I
can do is catch the exception and transmit it to an exception handling
thread.  (By overriding methods of the Thread object.)  That's close,
but...

The exception handling thread can do things like print out the error.
But the recourses available to it are: 1) terminate the entire
application, and 2) ignore the error.  Option #2 is not satisfactory,
to the only remaining option is #1.

Here are some other things that won't work:

 * Putting all network code within a try block.

   Several problems with that: the exceptions thrown are different for
   different types of connections (plain socket, ssl, etc), and may
   not be known in advance.

   Moreover, actions such as "download message" are done in individual
   threads, and the parent thread -- which really needs to know about
   this -- has no way to get the message until it does a join, which
   it may or may not ever have cause to do.  Even then, it would
   usually be better for it to get the message immediately.

 * Save some state on thread exit and retrieve it on join().

   Possible, yes, and might be a usable workaround.  However, there
   are a number of places in the code that don't do a join(), and this
   seems an error-prone way of doing things.

   It basically involves manually passing data back up the "thread
   chain", like passing error codes back up through the call chain in
   C.  Essentially, many of the benefits of exceptions in the first
   place disappear.

Thoughts anyone?

[1] OfflineIMAP is at http://quux.org/devel/offlineimap

-- John Goerzen



From mwh at python.net  Tue Jul 15 11:56:28 2003
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 15:56:28 GMT
Subject: Multiple Class Inheritance Question
References: <jpiQa.4284$Y%3.2387@nwrddc03.gnilink.net> <mailman.1058131417.23876.python-list@python.org> <2259b0e2.0307140658.26192b82@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <7h3el0rn62g.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato) writes:

> Andy Jewell <andy at wild-flower.co.uk> wrote in message news:<mailman.1058131417.23876.python-list at python.org>...
> > Read guildo's essay on new style classes - that explains it all.
> > 
> > In the 'old days' i.e. before Python 2.2.x the rules were different.  Now
> >  a 
> > new algorithm is used which copes better with this.  As I said, read the 
> > essay (it's on www.python.org - just search for 'new style classes essay'
> > ).
> > 
> > hth
> > -andyj
> 
> ...  and in Python 2.3 the rule has changed again ...
> 
> http://www.python.org/2.3/mro.html

Though not so much as to change the MRO in this situation.

Cheers,
M.

-- 
    FORD:  Just pust the fish in your ear, come on, it's only a
           little one.
  ARTHUR:  Uuuuuuuuggh!
                    -- The Hitch-Hikers Guide to the Galaxy, Episode 1



From guettler at thomas-guettler.de  Mon Jul 21 06:07:59 2003
From: guettler at thomas-guettler.de (Thomas =?ISO-8859-15?Q?G=FCttler?=)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 12:07:59 +0200
Subject: How to save web pages for offline reading?
References: <cb035744.0307210131.5cfbc890@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bfge1v$e6v86$1@ID-63505.news.uni-berlin.de>

Will Stuyvesant wrote:

> I am trying to download pages from Python, for offline reading.  This
> to save telephone costs :-)
> 
> If a page contains something like
> <link rel='stylesheet' href='../pythonware.css' type='text/css' />
> and I use fp=urllib.urlopen(...) and then fp.read(), I get the HTML
> but not the CSS.  As a result the page looks bad when reading offline.
>  How to solve this?  Also the .GIF's in a page would be nice, but this
> is less important and also would take more time to download.

Hi,

Does it need to be done with pyhton? 
If not, I would use wget. It has very much features. 

 thomas




From sismex01 at hebmex.com  Fri Jul 25 16:46:13 2003
From: sismex01 at hebmex.com (sismex01 at hebmex.com)
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 15:46:13 -0500
Subject: looping through a file
Message-ID: <F7DB8D13DB61D511B6FF00B0D0F062330589F996@mail.hebmex.com>

> From: Bruno Desthuilliers [mailto:bdesth.nospam at removeme.free.fr] 
> Sent: Viernes, 25 de Julio de 2003 03:25 p.m.
> 
> [...snip...]
>
> No, but there are better ways to do it in Python :
> 
> try:
>      thefile = file(filename)
> except IOError:
>      doWhatEverWithException()
> 
> for line in thefile.readlines():
>      doWhatEverWithTheLine()
>

And even better ways:

try:
    thefile = file(filename)
except IOError:
    doWhatEverWithException()

for line in thefile:
    doWhatEverWithTheLine(line)


files have iterators now. :-)

-gustavo



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From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Thu Jul 31 17:35:17 2003
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 17:35:17 -0400
Subject: Python's biggest compromises
References: <899f842.0307310555.56134f71@posting.google.com> <mailman.1059679007.20588.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <vij2t6bhdu146a@news.supernews.com>

"Ian Bicking" <ianb at colorstudy.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.1059679007.20588.python-list at python.org...
> On Thu, 2003-07-31 at 08:55, Anthony_Barker wrote:
> > The three that come to my mind are significant whitespace, dynamic
> > typing, and that it is interpreted - not compiled. These three put
> > python under fire and cause some large projects to move off python or
> > relegate it to prototyping.
>
> I think these are valid as "compromises", not to be confused with
> flaws.  These are all explicit choices, and ones for which the original
> justifications remain valid.  A lot of stuff in Basic is simply flaws,
> or based on justifications that no longer apply to today's programming
> world.

I think I'd go with your first assessment. These are design choices.
Compromises are things that you can't figure out how to get right
within the structure of the major design choices.


> Anyway, I might add mine: the nature of modules as executed code is a
> compromise.  That is, a module isn't a declaration, it's a program to be
> executed in its own namespace.  When you import a module, you are
> executing the module then looking at the namespace.

I wouldn't call it a compromise, but it does have its bad points
when you're trying to construct a large, reliable system.

> There are some advantages to this, particularly in the transparency of
> the implementation -- things don't always work the way you might want
> (e.g., circular imports), but it's usually not that hard to understand
> why (and often the way you want things to work has nasty gotchas that
> you wouldn't have thought of).  It also opens up a lot of possibilities
> for dynamicism in class and function declaration, like doing this in the
> top level:
>
> if something:
>     def func(x): ...
> else:
>     def func(x): ...
>
> But it's a compromise, because it makes things more difficult as well.
> It's a *big* problem in any long-running process, where you may want to
> modify code underlying the system without rebuilding the entire state.
> Classes aren't declared, they are simply constructed, so by reloading a
> module all the persistent instances still exist and refer to the defunct
> class.  You can modify classes at runtime, but this is different from
> simply rerunning the class definition.  (A clever metaclass *could* make
> those equivalent, though... hmmm...)


> A related problem is that Python objects generally can accept any
> instance variable names, and names are not declared anywhere.  Again,
> this makes it difficult to deal with long-lived objects.  If you change
> the class so that all instances get a new attribute, old objects won't
> be updated.  I'm thinking about both of these things in terms of
> Smalltalk, where they make tools possible that really add to the ease of
> developing in its environment.

Well, while that is true in detail, if you put the prototype in the
class object, all instances will find it the next time they try to
access it. References will get the class version, and assignments
will update the instance. Of course, you had to change some of
the methods to even get into this situation...

John Roth

>
>   Ian
>
>
>





From timr at probo.com  Sun Jul 13 00:51:03 2003
From: timr at probo.com (Tim Roberts)
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 21:51:03 -0700
Subject: Windows Python 2.3b2 bug? Edit with IDLE
References: <buaPa.26828$FN3.2229822@news.ono.com> <mailman.1057845736.20117.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <u5p1hvsd92s8bcmag4sgh89of4cflv1jat@4ax.com>

"Tim Peters" <tim.one at comcast.net> wrote:

>[Bartolom? Sintes Marco]
>> I am using Python 2.3b2 in a Windows 98 SE machine. If I right-click
>> a .py file, the menu shows an "Edit with IDLE" option, but when I
>> select it no IDLE window opens, as Python 2.2.2 did. Is it a known
>> bug, or am I doing something wrong? Thanks
>
>It's a known bug, and will be fixed before the next release.  There's a new
>version of IDLE in a new location in 2.3, but the installer wasn't updated
>accordingly (to point the "Edit with IDLE" action to IDLE's new home).

This is easy to fix, if the original poster is not afraid of editing the
registry.  Go recursively search the Python directory for "idle.pyw".
Remember the new path.  Open regedit, and go to
  HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT
    Python.File
      shell
        Edit with IDLE
          command

The default value will be something like:
  C:\Apps\Python22\pythonw.exe C:\Apps\Python22\Tools\idle\idle.pyw -e "%1"

Change the path in the second parameter, and you should be good-to-go.
-- 
- Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
  Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.



From mis6 at pitt.edu  Tue Jul 29 10:11:33 2003
From: mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato)
Date: 29 Jul 2003 07:11:33 -0700
Subject: pretty printing graphs
References: <mailman.1059413382.3564.python-list@python.org> <2259b0e2.0307281530.218400ae@posting.google.com> <bg51s1$qp2$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <2259b0e2.0307290611.6e0e9abd@posting.google.com>

bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) wrote in message news:<bg51s1$qp2$0 at 216.39.172.122>...
> Well, here's the version with connectors:
> <snip>

Thanks Bengt, 

this give me some idea. I was writing something similar three or four
days ago, but I was stuck with the connection lines. I had the very
bad idea of drawing them as dots, but this is the unhappy result in
a similar hierarchy:


                   +------+                                           
                   |object|                                           
                   +------+..                                         
                     .   .   ...                                      
                    .     .     ...                                   
                   .       .       ...                                
             +------+    +------+    +------+                         
             |ClassD|    |ClassE|    |ClassF|                         
             +------+.. .+------+    +------+                         
               .     .....             .                              
              .   ...     ...         .                               
             . ...           ...     .                                
       +------+                +------+                               
       |ClassB|                |ClassC|                               
       +------+           .....+------+                               
         .           .....                                            
        .       .....                                                 
       .   .....                                                      
 +------+..                                                           
 |ClassA|                                                             
 +------+                                                             


I think I will copy your connection lines idea, if not the code ;)


      Michele



From news at yebu.de  Mon Jul 21 05:29:39 2003
From: news at yebu.de (Karl Scalet)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 11:29:39 +0200
Subject: pythonic malloc
In-Reply-To: <OaOSa.6965$OM3.854@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
References: <OaOSa.6965$OM3.854@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
Message-ID: <bfgbq2$eio91$1@ID-141451.news.uni-berlin.de>

kjockey schrieb:
> I have some simple UDP code that does:
> s.sendto("\xf0\x00\x02\x00rachel\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00",addr)
> 
> This is OK, except that I'd like to change the text in the middle ("rachel",
> which is the hostname FWIW), and the NUL padding needs to go out to make
> the length 25 bytes (so the padding depends on the length of the name).
> 
> So I could do something like:
> retpacket = "\xf0\x00\x02\x00"+socket.gethostname()
> while len(retpacket) < 26:

shouldn't that be 25?

>      retpacket += "\x00"
> s.sendto(retpacket, addr)
> 
> But that feels "wrong". And Python in a Nutshell says its a bad idea  -
> "anti-idiom".
> 
> Can anyone show me the true path?

No idea, if it's the true path:

hn = socket.gethostname()
retpacket = '\xf0\x00\x02\x00%s%s' % (hn, (25-4-len(hn))*chr(0))
s.sendto(retpacket, addr)

Karl


> 
> Brad




From gh at ghaering.de  Tue Jul  1 17:34:39 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 23:34:39 +0200
Subject: Haskell distutils-type system
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1057089068.1044.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1057089068.1044.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bdsuor$10emu7$1@ID-124666.news.dfncis.de>

Isaac Jones wrote:
> Hello Python Community.  I bring greetings from the Haskell community
> (http://www.haskell.org) ;)
> 
> There has been a lot of discussion of late about creating a
> grand-unified build & distribution system for "3rd party" Haskell
> libraries (those not distributed with the compilers).  Python's
> Distutils has come up a few times.  
> [...]
> The main issues facing us are:
> 
> 1) there are a variety of Haskell "compiler" implementations, one of
> which is an interpreter :)
> [...] 
> 3) just about every Haskell "compiler" and release is
> binary-incompatible, (except maybe for nhc98).  That is, if we were
> going to distribute binary libraries, we'd need different binaries for
> ghc4, ghc5, and ghc6.  Also we'd need different binaries for profiling
> versions of the libraries, etc.
> 
> For instance, if I were to create a binary package HUnit, which is a
> simple case since its pure Haskell code, I would need:
> hunit-{hugs,nhc98} hunit-ghc{4,5,6} hunit-ghc{4,5,6}-prof
> 
> And whenever a new version of GHC6 is released (for instance), all of
> the packages like hunit-ghc6 would need to be updated at the same
> time. That doesn't even get into the issues of the wide variety of
> preprocessors that are common in this rapidly advancing language[1].
> So all of this suggests to me that we want to keep a global list of
> installed libraries and recompile them whenever a new Haskell
> "compiler" gets installed. 

I'd recommend to stay away from automatic recompilation for release the 
first release. "Explicit is better than implicit."

> This is why I want an abstraction layer
> above make.
> 
> So I want to ask you if you can think of any obvious things we should
> watch out for if we try to do something similar to what Python is
> doing.
> 
> Also, there was some mention (in the related "summary of the
> Developer's Day session") of Python's distutils creating a Makefile
> and wrapping calls to make, is this what you're doing?

No, distutils doesn't use make at all. It invokes the compiler and 
linker directly, if it compiles C extensions.

It's actually quite messy: Normally, Python itself is built with an 
automake-based build process, that will create a Makefile from a 
Makefile.in and a pyconfig.h. Installing Pyhton installs the Makefile as 
well, and at distutils runtime, distutils parses this Makefile for 
extracting the compiler and linker flags, among others.

The various compiler and

> Do you / did you find yourself duplicating a lot of what make already
> does, ie dependencies, etc, or do you utilize make?

AFAIK Python's distutils doesn't know about dependencies.

> What about configuration, do you typically interface with autoconf
> somehow, or does distutils have its own way to figure out
> configuration details?

It parses the Makefile, which is usually generated by autoconf, as I 
described above. Obviously there are systems which don't use the 
autoconf-based build process and where this Makefile and the pyconfig.h 
are created manually.

> Is a typical distutils setup.py program pretty much like what we see
> in the example documentation?

In my setup.py for C exntensions there are usually some 
platform-specific portions. if sys.platform.startswith("freebsd") and such.

> The developer provides some meta-data
> and gets a distribution tool? 

Yes.

> Is there any support for more complex
> stuff like interfacing with external systems?

For writing C extensions? Of course.

> Does distutils handle dependencies? [...]

No. And because most C extensions are quite small, that's not really 
necessary IMO.

-- Gerhard




From bgailer at alum.rpi.edu  Thu Jul 24 15:27:19 2003
From: bgailer at alum.rpi.edu (Bob Gailer)
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 13:27:19 -0600
Subject: Mystery Theater New Style Classes correction
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20030724132648.028d8968@66.28.54.253>

At 02:26 PM 7/24/2003 -0400, Terry Reedy wrote:


>"Bob Gailer" <bgailer at alum.rpi.edu> wrote in message
>news:mailman.1059062857.29503.python-list at python.org...
> > Predict the output:
> >
> > class A(int):
> >      classval = 99
> >      def __init__(self, val = 0):
> >          if val:
> >              self = val
> >          else:
> >              self = A.classval
>
>I am not sure what the point is.  However,
>
>1.  Rebinding the local variable 'self' (or any other local variable)
>only affects further code within the function, which there is not any.
>So the above conditional is equivalent to 'pass'.
>
>2.  Because ints are immutable, the value of a new int is set within
>int.__new__, which is not overwritten.  Thus, the above __init__ is
>irrelevant.  In particular, the value of an A object has nothing to do
>with the defaulted parameter 'val=0'.
>
> > a=A(3)
>
>3. This is equivalent to a=int(3).  No surprises.
>
> > b=A()
>
>4. This is equivalent to b = int().  I thought this might raise an
>exception.  But after seeing the result (0). I remember Guido's
>decision (and a recent PyDev discussion thereof) that callable builtin
>types should, if possible, return a null value when getting a null
>input.  Hence
>
> >>> int(), long(), float(), tuple(), list(), dict()
>(0, 0L, 0.0, (), [], {})
>
> > print a,b
>3,0
>
>5. Result is same if 'val=0' is changed to 'val=9' or anything else.
>
> > [from OP's self followup] The question this leads to is: how does
>one access the value of such a class within a class method?
>
>Since there is no class method presented, this make not much sense.
>Bob: were you aware of 4.) above when you posted this?

There's a lot I was not aware of. Your reply and <<Matthew's>> have given 
me what I needed.

Bob Gailer
bgailer at alum.rpi.edu
303 442 2625
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From bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au  Sun Jul  6 21:00:17 2003
From: bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 01:00:17 GMT
Subject: Newbie Question: Abstract Class in Python
References: <5U2Oa.239646$jp.6482027@twister.southeast.rr.com> <beaed6$e71$1@panix2.panix.com> <Tl3Oa.239706$jp.6488300@twister.southeast.rr.com>
Message-ID: <slrnbghhg8.tuv.bignose-hates-spam@zeus.zipworld.com.au>

On Mon, 07 Jul 2003 00:42:27 GMT, Kevin Bass wrote:
> I am only looking for an answer about creating an abstract class in
> Python and not a solution to a problem.  I am looking for a way to
> stop class instantiation of a class.  This should be a generic
> approach.

Python, in general, doesn't try to stop the programmer doing things, the
way many other languages do.  This is known in the community as the
"we're all consenting adults" philosophy.

If you can tell us why you'd want to prevent class instantiation, we can
discuss that.

-- 
 \          "It's a good thing we have gravity or else when birds died |
  `\             they'd just stay right up there. Hunters would be all |
_o__)                                     confused."  -- Steven Wright |
http://bignose.squidly.org/ 9CFE12B0 791A4267 887F520C B7AC2E51 BD41714B



From mcfletch at rogers.com  Sat Jul 19 07:47:03 2003
From: mcfletch at rogers.com (Mike C. Fletcher)
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 07:47:03 -0400
Subject: properties + types, implementing meta-class desciptors elegantly?
In-Reply-To: <bfa97g$s5j$0@216.39.172.122>
References: <mailman.1058532630.7342.python-list@python.org> <bfa97g$s5j$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <3F192FB7.3060105@rogers.com>

Bengt Richter wrote:

>On Fri, 18 Jul 2003 08:48:44 -0400, "Mike C. Fletcher" <mcfletch at rogers.com> wrote:
>  
>
...

>Not sure exactly what you are doing, but what does
>
>     object.__setattr__(client, self.name, value)
>
>do in your context in place of
>
>     client.__dict__[ self.name ] = value
>
>?
>  
>
__setattr__ invokes the entire tree of setattr machinery, *including* 
descriptor interception, so it just creates an infinite loop when used 
in descriptors.  What I'm looking for is a (set of) 
method(s)/function(s) for use when constructing descriptors which allow 
for simply setting the value without going through the new setattr 
machinery.  In effect, a function which knows how to do the equivalent 
of "client.__dict__[ name ] = value" for all built-in objects (objects, 
classes, __slot__ holding instance, etceteras).

Hooks into which to hook is my goal, really.  A lower-level API for 
doing what's normally done once you're done pre-processing the 
setting/getting/deleting "event".

Have fun,
Mike

_______________________________________
  Mike C. Fletcher
  Designer, VR Plumber, Coder
  http://members.rogers.com/mcfletch/







From pythonguy at Hotpop.com  Sun Jul 20 16:55:18 2003
From: pythonguy at Hotpop.com (Anand Pillai)
Date: 20 Jul 2003 13:55:18 -0700
Subject: sys.setcheckinterval query
Message-ID: <84fc4588.0307201255.254582df@posting.google.com>

Quoting from documentation on sys module in python
standard documentation.

"""
setcheckinterval(interval)
 Set the interpreter's ``check interval''. This integer value
determines how often the interpreter checks for periodic things such
as thread switches and signal handlers. The default is 10, meaning the
check is performed every 10 Python virtual instructions. Setting it to
a larger value may increase performance for programs using threads.
Setting it to a value <= 0 checks every virtual instruction,
maximizing responsiveness as well as overhead.
"""
 I have a program that uses multiple threads. Is there any direct
correlation
between the number of threads my program might spawn and the value of
ther
'interval' variable.

 I am interested in the last but one statement which says, "Setting it
to a larger value may increase performance for programs using
threads.". So my question is what would that value be? How can I find
out the number of
python 'virtual instructions' for every function I have?

Thanks

~Anand



From bdesth.nospam at removeme.free.fr  Fri Jul 25 16:24:50 2003
From: bdesth.nospam at removeme.free.fr (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 22:24:50 +0200
Subject: looping through a file
In-Reply-To: <bfs0ec$eq9$1@news.iucc.ac.il>
References: <3eaf6668$0$1030$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au> <bfs0ec$eq9$1@news.iucc.ac.il>
Message-ID: <3f21903c$0$27898$626a54ce@news.free.fr>

Adam wrote:
> Psybar Phreak wrote:
> 
>> hi all - ive just started with python (after having done java and c) 
>> and am
>> having a little bit of trouble with the script.  Im using as a login 
>> script.
>>
>> There's a users.dat file in the format
>> user1
>> user1password
>> user2
>> user2password
>> ... etc
>>
>> at the moment - the code i work, only checks the first and second 
>> lines (ie.
>> details of user1).  but it appears that python doesn't have a do... 
>> while...
>> until loop.
>>

No, but there are better ways to do it in Python :

try:
     thefile = file(filename)
except IOError:
     doWhatEverWithException()

for line in thefile.readlines():
     doWhatEverWithTheLine()






From ebolonev at rol.ru  Sun Jul  6 01:20:17 2003
From: ebolonev at rol.ru (Egor Bolonev)
Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2003 16:20:17 +1100
Subject: redirect std out in TKinter window,WinXP
Message-ID: <be8biv$qdo$1@news.rol.ru>

Hello, All!

I want to wrap a WGET in Tkinter application. How can I redirect(or catch)
an output of WGET?

Hum. May be I should read a log file.

With best regards, Egor Bolonev.  E-mail: ebolonev at rol.ru [ru eo en]




From gh at ghaering.de  Sat Jul 26 21:11:56 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 03:11:56 +0200
Subject: Web tool kit : pro - cons ?
In-Reply-To: <3f230835$0$280$ba620e4c@reader0.news.skynet.be>
References: <3f23003f$0$266$ba620e4c@reader0.news.skynet.be>
	<3f23034d$0$49103$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
	<3f230835$0$280$ba620e4c@reader0.news.skynet.be>
Message-ID: <3F2326DC.3010900@ghaering.de>

vincent_delft wrote:
> My needs are :
> - Build pages via templates (easy to split content and layout)

ZPT seems to be a good option there.

> - My pages will be defined with "boxes".  I would like to have a tool that
> can manage easely such "object".

You mean a WYSIWYG web development IDE for Python? I don't think there's 
such a thing.

> - I will use PostgreSQL as backend.

I'd suggest you use pyPgSQL or psycopg for this. I'm a little biased 
towards pyPgSQL, being one of it's developers ;-)

-- Gerhard




From martin at v.loewis.de  Sun Jul  6 07:45:36 2003
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-15?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 06 Jul 2003 13:45:36 +0200
Subject: redirect std out in TKinter window,WinXP
References: <be8biv$qdo$1@news.rol.ru>
Message-ID: <m3vfuf3mlb.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

"Egor Bolonev" <ebolonev at rol.ru> writes:

> I want to wrap a WGET in Tkinter application. 

I recommend that you don't. Use urllib instead.

Regards,
Martin



From ian at emit.demon.co.ukx  Thu Jul 17 06:53:30 2003
From: ian at emit.demon.co.ukx (Ian McConnell)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 11:53:30 +0100
Subject: Python Quiz
References: <84fc4588.0307152253.20858619@posting.google.com> <3f152bb4$1@mail.hmgcc.gov.uk>
Message-ID: <87wuehxw45.fsf@emit.demon.co.uk>

"richardc" <richardc at hmgcc.gov.uk> writes:

> 'Question 8'
> Im no expert but wouldnt you accept that Python has 'borrowed' FORTRAN's
> fixed format syntax.  I can only think of Python and FORTRAN off the top of
> my head which use whitespace as part of the syntax.

There was also Occam from the early eighties
      http://directory.google.com/Top/Computers/Programming/Languages/Occam/

where each construct was indented by two spaces to show structure:

PROC write.string(CHAN output, VALUE string[])=
  SEQ character.number = [1 FOR string[BYTE 0]]
    output ! string[BYTE character.number]
    
write.string(terminal.screen, "Hello World!")




-- 
 "Thinks: I can't think of a thinks. End of thinks routine": Blue Bottle

** Aunty Spam says: Remove the trailing x from the To: field to reply **



From usenet_spam at janc.invalid  Sun Jul  6 18:31:26 2003
From: usenet_spam at janc.invalid (JanC)
Date: Sun, 06 Jul 2003 22:31:26 GMT
Subject: Frustration with spurious posts.
References: <mailman.1057420812.18141.python-list@python.org> <3F06FD11.967D8D8A@hotmail.com> <Xns93B02F2F82A37JanC@213.119.4.244> <3F081C10.8CF6B57@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <Xns93B154D3A22DJanC@213.119.4.244>

Alan Kennedy <alanmk at hotmail.com> schreef:

> But if an email is sent from an individual to an individual, then such
> "you sent me a virus!" emails can be very useful information.

If you know what you're doing: okay.  But that means you should always 
check a malware database to know how it works first.
 
> Is there some sort of mail header that these virus checking gateways
> could examine, to see if the email is from a list, rather than an
> individual, before it sends these emails?

Most mailing-list software adds some typical headers that can be used for 
that.  At least Mailman & Majordomo do and they are the most-used ones.

-- 
JanC

"Be strict when sending and tolerant when receiving."
RFC 1958 - Architectural Principles of the Internet - section 3.9



From soyfree at ugcs.caltech.ed  Thu Jul 31 04:51:03 2003
From: soyfree at ugcs.caltech.ed (Rob Sacamento)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 01:51:03 -0700
Subject: keystroke check
References: <mailman.1059619004.15764.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bgalcm$ik2$1@naig.caltech.edu>

You may want to check out the pygame modules (http://www.pygame.org),
specifically the event module.  It's been a while since I've looked through
the specifications for it, so I'm not positive it does exactly what you
want, but it bears checking out.

 -Rob S.


"Wes Fraser" <ugly_411 at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.1059619004.15764.python-list at python.org...
> Is there any way to check in a loop to see if at that
> given moment in the program, a key on the key board is
> being pressed without actually stopping like raw_ipnut
> does?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Wes
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
> http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com
>





From rmunn at pobox.com  Tue Jul 15 13:21:19 2003
From: rmunn at pobox.com (Robin Munn)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 17:21:19 GMT
Subject: A few beginning questions
References: <3f129a8a$1@mail.hmgcc.gov.uk> <2259b0e2.0307140930.4b3c43a5@posting.google.com> <ptkdj863.fsf@python.net> <bf0anc$9gch1$1@ID-141451.news.uni-berlin.de> <3f13bd77$1@mail.hmgcc.gov.uk>
Message-ID: <slrnbh8e1s.o6o.rmunn@localhost.localdomain>

richardc <richardc at hmgcc.gov.uk> wrote:
> Im guessing from the lack of responce that there arnt many python editors
> which run on OSX.

I didn't see your original post, so I missed that question. One editor
I'd suggest you try out is Vim (http://www.vim.org/). Its name stands
for "Vi IMproved"; it's basically the good old Unix editor vi with lots
of extra features useful for programming, like syntax highlighting and
folding. (For Python, use "set foldmethod=indent" -- it works like a
charm!)

Cons: It's vi. That means a pretty steep learning curve until you've
gotten used to modal editing, where you go into "insert mode" to type
text and go back into "command mode" (by hitting ESC) to move the
cursor, copy and paste text, do searches, move text around, etc. Many
people try vi and give up in disgust after five minutes.

Pros: It's vi. That means a whole lot of power at your fingertips once
you've gotten used to this editing style. I find that personally, I'm
about twice as productive with vi as with another editor. YMMV, of
course, but that's been my experience. And because vi has been a
standard Unix editor for so long, *any* Unix system you use *will* have
your favorite editor on it. Plus, Vim is available for all those
non-Unix OS'es as well, so you'll never be forced to re-train your
fingers on Yet Another Editor when you switch operating systems.

If you don't like the vi style of modal editing, there's always the
other grand old standard Unix editor, emacs. I'm sure there are several
versions of Emacs that will run on OSX; but since I don't use Emacs
myself, I can't tell you where to find them. One warning about Emacs,
though this is mostly my personal preferences showing: its nickname is
"Escape-Meta-Alt-Control-Shift". If you're used to, for example, hitting
Command-Shift-S for "Save As..." then you might prefer Emacs' key style
over vi's. Myself, I find that my touch-typing-trained fingers prefer
hitting several keys in sequence (the way vi tends to do things) than
several keys at once (the way Emacs tends to do things). But again, Your
Mileage May Vary.

Hope this helps.

-- 
Robin Munn <rmunn at pobox.com> | http://www.rmunn.com/ | PGP key 0x6AFB6838
-----------------------------+-----------------------+----------------------
"Remember, when it comes to commercial TV, the program is not the product.
YOU are the product, and the advertiser is the customer." - Mark W. Schumann



From jack at performancedrivers.com  Mon Jul 14 03:50:03 2003
From: jack at performancedrivers.com (Jack Diederich)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 03:50:03 -0400
Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Python_Mystery_Theatre_--_Episode_2:__As=ED_Fue?=
In-Reply-To: <VorQa.15236$Kw1.587@nwrdny02.gnilink.net>; from vze4rx4y@verizon.net on Mon, Jul 14, 2003 at 05:42:13AM +0000
References: <VorQa.15236$Kw1.587@nwrdny02.gnilink.net>
Message-ID: <20030714035003.B1005@localhost.localdomain>

On Mon, Jul 14, 2003 at 05:42:13AM +0000, Raymond Hettinger wrote:
I didn't look at the code, excepting int() [which is a big exception]
> ACT I -----------------------------------------------
> print '*%*r*' % (10, 'guido')
> print '*%.*f*' % ((42,) * 2)
I'll assume '%r' is __repr__ since '%s' is __str__
The star after a % means "placeholder for a number, get it from the arg list"
so my guess is:
*   'guido'* # padded to ten places, using spaces
*42.000000000000000000000000* # 42 decimal points

> ACT II -----------------------------------------------
> s = '0100'
> print int(s)
> for b in (16, 10, 8, 2, 0, -909, -1000, None):
>     print b, int(s, b)
int(0100) == 64 # octal
I looked up int_new() in intobject.c because I had never used the optional
base parameter.  the 'b' parameter is only legal for 1 >= base <= 36
but the magic constant[1] is -909, which is interpreted as base 10

> ACT III ----------------------------------------------------
> def once(x): return x
> def twice(x): return 2*x
> def thrice(x): return 3*x
> funcs = [once, twice, thrice]
> 
> flim = [lambda x:funcs[0](x), lambda x:funcs[1](x), lambda x:funcs[2](x)]
> flam = [lambda x:f(x) for f in funcs]
> 
> print flim[0](1), flim[1](1), flim[2](1)
> print flam[0](1), flam[1](1), flam[2](1)
funcs, flim, and flam all seem identical to me. all these should print
1 2 3

> ACT IV ----------------------------------------------------
> import os
> os.environ['one'] = 'Now there are'
> os.putenv('two', 'three')
> print os.getenv('one'), os.getenv('two')
no idea, so I'll punt
Now there are three

-jack

[1] When optional arguments are omitted (in this case 'base') the C variable
where they are recorded is left unchanged.  In this case that variable starts
at -909 so if it is passed in as -909 or omitted the code doesn't know.
But why can't base just default to 10 in the first place?  If the result
is -909 (omitted or passed in as -909) we just do a base-10 conversion anyway.

intobject.c

PyObject *x = NULL;
int base = -909;
static char *kwlist[] = {"x", "base", 0};

if (type != &PyInt_Type)
  return int_subtype_new(type, args, kwds); /* Wimp out */
  if (!PyArg_ParseTupleAndKeywords(args, kwds, "|Oi:int", kwlist, &x, &base))
    return NULL;
  if (base == -909)
    return PyNumber_Int(x); /* This will do a base-10 conversion anyway !!! */
  if (PyString_Check(x))
    return PyInt_FromString(PyString_AS_STRING(x), NULL, base);

The only exception is that the first argument has to be a string if the
optional base argument is used.  I'm sure there was a reason for this ... ?
int('99', 10) # legal
int(99, 10) # silly, but should this really be illegal?




From nsmith at ilangua.com  Tue Jul 22 12:24:36 2003
From: nsmith at ilangua.com (Neil Smith)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 17:24:36 +0100
Subject: profile output for kcachegrind ?
In-Reply-To: <8dad5312.0307220731.5ff69a91@posting.google.com>
References: <8dad5312.0307220731.5ff69a91@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3F1D6544.6090607@ilangua.com>

I've been using visualization of profile output as input to develop my 
first pyGTK application, but if the input format read by kcachegrind was 
well documented it would be a trivial task to get profile output in the 
correct format. Do you know whether it is well documented?

Neil.

Sebastien de Menten wrote:

>Hi,
>
>I am using the profile module to watch hot spots in a python
>application.
>
>The default output is already useful but has anyone tried to produce
>output readable by kcachegrind (http://kcachegrind.sourceforge.net/) ?
>
>seb
>  
>





From tomas at fancy.org  Mon Jul 14 22:06:14 2003
From: tomas at fancy.org (Tom Plunket)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 19:06:14 -0700
Subject: Stop Python from exiting upon error in Windows
References: <vh6jmv2f767h8b@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <n2o6hvcahk7dlmn9t26tvis8umnfg1tdeo@4ax.com>

Robert wrote:

> How can I stop the Python interpreter from exiting when an error occurs?

create a batchfile, tell Windows that the association of Python
files is to that batch file, and put this in the file:

python.exe %1
pause


Or- catch the error in your mainline, and do a sys.raw_input()
call on exception.

-tom!



From donn at u.washington.edu  Wed Jul 16 18:45:04 2003
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 15:45:04 -0700
Subject: anything like C++ references?
References: <mailman.1058377226.21359.python-list@python.org> <20030716130631003-0600@news.xmission.com> <8sdbhvk5b5ia2onmbca4ajkaidpu3ht9ed@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <donn-C5DEB6.15450416072003@nntp3.u.washington.edu>

In article <8sdbhvk5b5ia2onmbca4ajkaidpu3ht9ed at 4ax.com>,
 Stephen Horne <intentionally at blank.co.uk> wrote:
...
> I was told today that both Perl and ML have something equivalent to
> pointers. I don't know either language, though. Given the current
> audience, mentioning Perl may be a mistake - but we could look up the
> rationale for including them in ML.

In Objective CAML (if that's the ML they meant, or if this is general
to other ML implementations, I don't know), there is a "ref" type
that is essentially a mutable record with one member.

Variables, if I may use the term loosely, are about the same as in
Haskell - symbols, really, that are equated with some value and
thereafter stand for that value.  The value's internal state can
change, if it supports that, but it can't be replaced with a different
value.  The only thing that ref adds to this is a notational convenience.
You can say

   let a = ref 0 in begin
       ...
       a := !a + 1;
       ...
     end

instead of the semantically equivalent

   type 'a myref = {mutable val: 'a}
   let a = {val = 0} in begin
       ...
       a.val <- a.val + 1;
       ...
      end

Actually it's rather hard to see a great benefit there.  But at
any rate, this feature isn't fully equivalent to a hypothetical
pointer in Python - it doesn't point to a location, it is just
a mutable container.

   Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu



From gh at ghaering.de  Sun Jul 20 09:14:37 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 15:14:37 +0200
Subject: Strings and Unicode
In-Reply-To: <fef0a228.0307200027.2ef962e9@posting.google.com>
References: <fef0a228.0307200027.2ef962e9@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3F1A95BD.10006@ghaering.de>

An AC wrote:
> I have a function that takes a string as an input parameter. This
> function then urlencodes the string and sends it to a server with
> telnetlib.Telnet
> 
> The problem is that the string gets converted into what seems to be
> Unicode. How can I check to see if the input-string is Unicode and
> convert it to a different character set (in this case ISO-Latin1).

Either:

if type(s) is unicode:
     s = s.encode("latin1")

or:

if isinstance(s, unicode):
     s = s.encode("latin1")

if you want to be prepared for subclasses of unicode strings. I prefer 
the first version because of its efficiency. In the very rare case that 
any string or unicode subclasses appear I can switch to the second 
version later on.

-- Gerhard




From kjones9 at rochester.rr.com  Sat Jul 26 22:58:13 2003
From: kjones9 at rochester.rr.com (Keith Jones)
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 02:58:13 GMT
Subject: Seeing next character in an file
References: <CDFUa.42241$wk4.27296@twister.nyroc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2003.07.27.03.01.52.505599@rochester.rr.com>

On Sun, 27 Jul 2003 01:09:54 +0000, Grumfish wrote:

> Is there a way to see the next character of an input file object without 
> advancing the position in the file?


To do this, you can do the following:

fin = file('myfile')

... 

char = fin.read(1)
fin.seek(-1,1)     # set the file's current position back a character

You can then write your own subclass of file, if you want, with "peek"
functionality:

class flexfile(file):
	def __init__(self, fname, mode='r', bufsize=0):
		file.__init__(self, fname, mode, bufsize)

	def peek(self, cnt):
		data = self.read(cnt)
                self.seek(cnt * -1, 1)
		return data
	
	def peekline(self):
		pos = self.tell()
		data = self.readline()
		self.seek(pos, 0)
		return data












From shane at zope.com  Fri Jul 25 17:50:03 2003
From: shane at zope.com (Shane Hathaway)
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 17:50:03 -0400
Subject: Static typing
In-Reply-To: <3f219c8d$1@nntp0.pdx.net>
References: <3f218ef1$0$27926$626a54ce@news.free.fr> <3f219c8d$1@nntp0.pdx.net>
Message-ID: <3F21A60B.9020709@zope.com>

Scott David Daniels wrote:
> You _might_ want some static typing information as program
> documentation or to enable efficient program translation.  The
> types sig was interested in allowing type annotation where
> possible.  Remember, the type you might want may be more like
> "what protocol must these objects (the ones passing through
> this variable) follow" than "what are the construction details
> of these objects".
> 
> I would like to see interface descriptions describing what
> kinds of parameters are required and results produced for
> packages that I am considering using.  If there were a single
> central-python-endorsed form for those descriptions even better.
> If the descriptions can be mechanically read, and at least
> sometimes mechincally checked (possibly slowly, possibly only
> for slow execution), I might use such a system to check a module
> before announcing it to the world.

Well, here's a pattern I've been trying out for this purpose: use assert 
statements at the top of the function.

def foo(bar, baz):
     assert isinstance(bar, int)
     assert isinstance(baz, str)

It has the following nice properties:

- The type checks are useful for debugging and can be optimized away.

- The intent is obvious.

- No changes to Python are necessary.

- You could easily parse the assert statements for type documentation 
(as long as the statements are kept simple.)

- It avoids the need for some kind of docstring markup language.

I'm quite happy with the pattern, although there are a couple of 
negative points that I can think of:

- It's a bit verbose, although that verbosity enables you to perform 
bounds checking and operate with other type systems like Zope's interfaces.

- You can't specify the type of the return values this way.

What do you think?  Should this become a common idiom?

Shane





From jtuc at ev1.net  Mon Jul 28 11:42:01 2003
From: jtuc at ev1.net (Jordan Tucker)
Date: 28 Jul 2003 08:42:01 -0700
Subject: Distutils output directory change?
Message-ID: <467c9d67.0307280742.1d48b84d@posting.google.com>

Hello,

I've just upgraded a box to 2.3c2 from 2.2.1 and I am trying to
compile an extension module with distutils. In my setup script I have
a list of sources with relative pathnames, e.g.
'../../common/helper.c' etc. Building with 2.2.1, the gcc command
generated worked: it used '-o build/temp.linux-i686-2.2/helper.o'. But
now building with 2.3c2 it generates the gcc command with '-o
build/temp.linux-i686-2.3/../../common/helper.o', using the complete
path that was specified in the setup script. This creates a problem
because then gcc cannot create the output file.

Is there a quick fix for this, a parameter I haven't seen in my
cursory glance at the docs and distutils source?

Thanks,
Jordan



From jjl at pobox.com  Sat Jul 12 17:59:10 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 12 Jul 2003 22:59:10 +0100
Subject: Python Mystery Theatre -- Episode 1:  Exceptions
References: <UiOPa.3259$Y92.1224@nwrdny01.gnilink.net>
Message-ID: <873chb5rv5.fsf@pobox.com>

Oops, still not used to Gnus.  My followup to the 'What's new with
Gnosis' thread was supposed to be to this thread.


John



From syver at inout.no  Fri Jul 11 09:40:09 2003
From: syver at inout.no (Syver Enstad)
Date: 11 Jul 2003 15:40:09 +0200
Subject: python mode problem in emacs
References: <3097083.1057868749@dbforums.com>
Message-ID: <uvfu9fah2.fsf@inout.no>

pygeek <member32992 at dbforums.com> writes:

> Hi everyone.
> I've just installed emacs 21.3.1 on my WinXP machine.
> I wanted to switch to Python mode then realized that
> my emacs lacked the 'python-mode.el' file. After downloading
> from python.org and byte-compiling the file,
> I went on to look for the file '.emacs' or 'emacs.el' to include a
> few lines of
> command so that emacs would load python-mode.
> I looked through and searched my hard drive, and there wasn't
> such a file
> by the name '.emacs' or 'emacs.el'. What's going on here? Where are
> the files?
> Can somebody help me?
> Thanks in advance.

I've think I've been through most of the problems you can encounter
using Emacs, Python and win32 together. There are various tricks one
has to do f.ex in order to get sourcelevel debugging to work (pdb gud
mode). Mail me or post to this list if you have any further problems
(I saw that your question was answered elsewhere).
 



From davidcfox at post.harvard.edu  Sat Jul 12 10:20:27 2003
From: davidcfox at post.harvard.edu (David C. Fox)
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 14:20:27 GMT
Subject: wxPython - question
In-Reply-To: <slrnbgso5s.o63.pipen@beast.tu.kielce.pl>
References: <slrnbgre73.fld.pipen@beast.tu.kielce.pl> <ac3sgv0uv35a7140v826rappcgvl3t2rjd@4ax.com> <slrnbgso5s.o63.pipen@beast.tu.kielce.pl>
Message-ID: <LOUPa.42416$sY2.18561@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net>

Artur M. Piwko wrote:
> In the darkest hour on Thu, 10 Jul 2003 18:12:55 -0700,
> Tom Plunket <tomas at fancy.org> screamed:
> 
>>By reading the docs and using the right flags.  :)
>>
>>(I've been using wx for two weeks.)
>>
> 
> 
> Me - 2 days (-;
> 
> 
>>wxFRAME_NO_TASKBAR - Creates an otherwise normal frame but it
>>
> 
> 
> Thanks. I was looking for function and this is a style...
> I am fighting right now with setting/resetting this flag on live frame.
> 
> Artur
> 

I don't know about this one in particular, but there are very few styles 
which can be reset after the window is created.  You might consider 
creating a new frame with the appropriate style when you want to switch 
to a different style.

David




From duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk  Wed Jul 16 05:04:17 2003
From: duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk (Duncan Booth)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 09:04:17 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: anything like C++ references?
References: <000301c348c7$3c501980$21795418@dell1700> <sag3hv4vf884ed7ouu5cv8ofnopp9j1t12@4ax.com> <f0f51c80.0307132003.264b6894@posting.google.com> <7dc4hvslh7a8fk9p6cvsfqa1c8d44rmmnv@4ax.com> <beuepu$bsm$1@panix3.panix.com> <sdd6hvsmsq32o62oknpqft6dc61lbup8rn@4ax.com> <20030714173855120-0600@news.xmission.com> <9mh6hv45v18apgn6lp7bo6mm63e5oba9rd@4ax.com> <f0f51c80.0307150921.7b6667e2@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <Xns93BA6253C731Fduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

owski at hotmail.com (Adam Ruth) wrote in 
news:f0f51c80.0307150921.7b6667e2 at posting.google.com:

> 2) C++ makes a strong distinction between the initialization operator,
>=, and the assignment operator, =.  Both const and reference variables
> use them differently.  To me, that's a really big violation of proper
> 'computer science', because conceptually they're the *same* thing. 
> But because of context, C++ makes a distinction.  Python has no such
> distinction, initialization and assigment are always the same.
> 
> (This is true of all static languages with the concept of a constant,
> and I don't really disagree with it as a valuable idiom, but it is
> inconsistent internally, where Python is consistent.  Do any languages
> use a different operator for initialization?)

Yes, Algol68.

My Algol68 is more than rusty, but:

Declare a name 'pi' to represent 3.1415926, i.e. declare a constant:

    REAL pi = 3.1415926;
    
Declare a name 'x' to represent a local variable, and assign it a value:

    REF REAL x = LOC REAL;
    x := 3.1415926;

Shorthand for the above:

   REAL x;
   x := 3.1415926;

or even:

   REAL x := pi;

Initialisation uses '=', assignment uses ':='. Note that the constant is 
defined as a real and initialised with one, but the variable is a reference 
to a real and initialised with a storage location. The last example is not 
initialising x with the value, it is implicitly initialising x with a 
location then assigning the value into that location.

-- 
Duncan Booth                                             duncan at rcp.co.uk
int month(char *p){return(124864/((p[0]+p[1]-p[2]&0x1f)+1)%12)["\5\x8\3"
"\6\7\xb\1\x9\xa\2\0\4"];} // Who said my code was obscure?



From tzot at sil-tec.gr  Mon Jul 21 22:20:57 2003
From: tzot at sil-tec.gr (Christos TZOTZIOY Georgiou)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 05:20:57 +0300
Subject: A challenge to the ASCII proponents.
References: <mailman.1058278343.23104.python-list@python.org> <bf167a$pvt$1@panix2.panix.com> <ufzl7rdno.fsf@online.no> <3F142A58.80426AA4@hotmail.com> <2259b0e2.0307161620.4a9353f1@posting.google.com> <Xns93BB246FDDBCFJanC@213.118.75.80> <3F168011.3AEB3EFC@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <1l7phvsthe07d5crnum699624msn4nqgue@4ax.com>

On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 11:53:05 +0100, rumours say that Alan Kennedy
<alanmk at hotmail.com> might have written:

>Here it is in a format where almost everybody will be able to see the
>original greek verb on their screen.
>
>#---------
><?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?>
><verb>&#x3b3;&#x3af;&#x3b3;&#x3bd;&#x3c9;&#x3c3;&#x3ba;&#x3c9;</verb>
>#---------

if I may... that should be

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?>
<verb>&#x3b3;&#x3b9;&#x3b3;&#x3bd;&#x3ce;&#x3c3;&#x3ba;&#x3c9;</verb>

since a word ending in a long syllable could never have an accent in the
third syllable from the end (that still applies in modern greek).
-- 
TZOTZIOY, I speak England very best,
Microsoft Security Alert: the Matrix began as open source.



From intentionally at blank.co.uk  Mon Jul 14 22:48:20 2003
From: intentionally at blank.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 03:48:20 +0100
Subject: anything like C++ references?
References: <000301c348c7$3c501980$21795418@dell1700> <sag3hv4vf884ed7ouu5cv8ofnopp9j1t12@4ax.com> <bet1sd$ibl$1@panix3.panix.com> <sfa4hvkq1j7rg1iga5j3tk2cc4qpr6e5qk@4ax.com> <beueis$b1d$1@panix3.panix.com> <78c6hvgu599ku5denkkl7pgmd4n13t460i@4ax.com> <roy-204535.19175914072003@reader1.panix.com> <3F135328.89C1F89C@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <hmq6hv8amht3kis59pqgab5mbqekc5675c@4ax.com>

On Mon, 14 Jul 2003 18:04:40 -0700, Erik Max Francis <max at alcyone.com>
wrote:

>Roy Smith wrote:
>
>> The wierd thing is that I don't think either one really matches what a
>> mathematician means when he writes "=".  In math, "=" is neither an
>> assignment or a test: it's an assertion.
>
>Right.  In fact, when a mathematician really does mean rebinding, they
>use an operator decidely unlike =, often :=, <-, <=, or some other
>similar ASCIIzation.  The equals sign in mathematics does not mean the
>same thing it does in modern programming languages.  It's just something
>that one has to deal with early on or be forever annoyed.

The fact that Python has, in this respect, followed the C etc
tradition doesn't mean it is doing the right thing.

>It's arguable that the Pascal family has the most mathematics-like
>operations for equality and assignment here, but really it's just a
>semantic issue of knowing which operator means what.  One can even get
>used to things like % means string formatting if one really tries :-).

True enough. And if someone creates a language in which '+' does
subtraction, I'm sure people could get used to that to. Doesn't mean
it's the right thing, though.




From claird at lairds.com  Thu Jul 17 09:50:25 2003
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 13:50:25 -0000
Subject: Linux - python vs sh
References: <mailman.1058429007.4582.python-list@python.org> <slrnbhd1bd.b4s.sybrenUSE@sybren.thirdtower.com>
Message-ID: <vhdad1scvdmj0f@corp.supernews.com>

In article <slrnbhd1bd.b4s.sybrenUSE at sybren.thirdtower.com>,
Sybren Stuvel  <sybrenUSE at YOURthirdtower.imagination.com> wrote:
			.
			.
			.
>can be re-written as:
>
>(
>	echo '>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>'
>	echo "$nr."
>	echo "Name: $rpmname"
>	echo
>	rpm -qi $rpmname
>	echo
>) >> $file
			.
			.
			.
... or, for that matter,
  echo ">>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
  $nr.
  Name: $rpmname

  `rpm -qi $rpmname

  " >> $file
among other variants.
-- 

Cameron Laird <Cameron at Lairds.com>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
Personal:  http://phaseit.net/claird/home.html



From andrew-pythonlist at puzzling.org  Wed Jul 23 05:40:08 2003
From: andrew-pythonlist at puzzling.org (Andrew Bennetts)
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 19:40:08 +1000
Subject: Python 2.3c1: Raising a string doesn't trigger PendingDeprecationWarning.
In-Reply-To: <7c58a0f1.0307230020.1336f4ea@posting.google.com>
References: <7c58a0f1.0307230020.1336f4ea@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20030723094008.GA3046@frobozz>

On Wed, Jul 23, 2003 at 01:27:54AM -0700, Kerim wrote:
> "What's New in Python 2.3"
> (http://www.python.org/doc/2.3c1/whatsnew/node17.html) says that
> "Raising a string will now trigger PendingDeprecationWarning.". But
> with Python 2.3c1 it seems that it isn't the case:
> 
> Python 2.3c1 (#44, Jul 18 2003, 14:32:36) [MSC v.1200 32 bit (Intel)]
> on win32
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> >>> raise 'error'
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
> error
> >>>

By default, the warnings module is configured to ignore
PendingDeprecationWarnings (as opposed to DeprecationWarnings).  If you
instruct it otherwise, e.g. with -Wall, it does what you expect:

bash-2.05b$ python2.3 -Wall
Python 2.3b2+ (#2, Jul  5 2003, 11:28:28) 
[GCC 3.3.1 20030626 (Debian prerelease)] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> raise "foo"
__main__:1: PendingDeprecationWarning: raising a string exception is deprecated
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
foo
>>> 

-Andrew.





From ghowland at lupineNO.SPAMgames.com  Thu Jul  3 02:41:18 2003
From: ghowland at lupineNO.SPAMgames.com (Geoff Howland)
Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 06:41:18 GMT
Subject: Python executables?
References: <mailman.1056619905.13226.python-list@python.org> <slrnbfn1te.rbb.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>
Message-ID: <82j7gv8b8sr7nejhunf32hb3oitc08s4pa@4ax.com>

On 27 Jun 2003 09:24:22 +0950, Ben Finney
<bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au> wrote:

>> This solves the problem of giving python programs to users who don't 
>> have python but doesn't solve the problem of the source "secrecy" 
>> (copyright).
>
>Wrong problem.  If you want to hide your source code from your users,
>don't expect help from free software programmers.

I thought about this for a few days before responding (and Im sure I
did a few other things too  ;) ), but I wanted to comment on this.

I think everyone that uses Python wants it to gain acceptance for the
great language that it is.  I believe that stating an attitude in this
way is pretty counter productive in gaining any kind of wide-spread
acceptance.

Most of the replies to this request didn't mention the concept of NOT
protecting the software, but 2 did to different degrees.  As someone
who uses and like open source software, and is slowly starting to
release some things as open source, and ALSO someone who sells
software and will continue in the future to sell software, I can say
that nothing turns me off more to a community than being told what my
goals should be.

I can understand wanting everything to be open, but thats not reality
and it never will be.  Some people will always want things
proprietary, and they will only work within systems that allow that.
I think to be truly successful, systems will have to allow for this
and make it easy to do.

Currently Python does not make this REALLY easy to do, and in the
privacy portion, I believe its not even possible.  This was a big
concern for me when I released my last for-sale software, but I just
decided I didn't care that much, and I love working in Python.

Some people will care enough, and will avoid Python because the
ability to protect their end results aren't there.

So far, the only semi-workable way to do this would be something like:

- Build a C program that embeds Python.
- Encrypt all the Python script/bytecode files.
- On runtime, decrypt the files and then execute.

Optional:

- Change the bytecode values in the Python source, and include your
new Python with different bytecode values.

I tried this last thing just to see if it would work, and I got some
problems compiling initially, so just gave up, but I think in theory
it should work.

Ignoring the Optional portion, this semi-solution is not actually very
secure.  It does however move the problem into having to decompile a C
program, and then get it to decrypt the Python files.  Then the normal
Python bytecode -> source.  It means any cracker will have to know
something about both C and Python to do it, so a bit more barrier to
entry.  It also means that in the US, the (vile and despicable, but
present) DMCA laws will make it a much more severe crime because
"cryptography reverse engineering" needed to be applied, and may at
least reduce corporations from doing this for fear of
lawsuits/criminal charges if they are exposed.

Anyway, this is a good bit of work and not a great solution, but is
there anything else?  If Python is to have avenues of support in all
walks of the software industry, will something like this be required?

>From what I understand, there are also very good Java decompilers, but
no one seems to complain about Java's lack of security.  Perhaps it is
because it is seen as something that is really "compiled" while
Python's loose compilation seems more whimsicle.

I think Python faces a lot of different public relations problems, and
just thought I'd pipe up about one that I have looked at myself, and
that I think most people coming into the Python world are faced with
and have to decide whether to ignore or not.


-Geoff Howland
http://ludumdare.com/



From ccosse at asymptopia.com  Mon Jul 28 23:58:18 2003
From: ccosse at asymptopia.com (Charlie Cosse)
Date: 28 Jul 2003 20:58:18 -0700
Subject: Tux Math Scrabble v2.2
Message-ID: <58329000.0307281958.6cf5bdd7@posting.google.com>

Tux Math Scrabble is written in python and uses PyGame for multimedia.

Tux Math Scrabble is a math version of the popular board game for ages
4-40, which is highly entertaining as well as great educational value.
The game challenges young people to construct compound equations and
consider multiple abstract possibilities. There are three skill-levels
for practice from basic addition and subtraction through to
multiplication and division.

http://www.asymptopia.com



From borcis at users.ch  Tue Jul 15 15:33:47 2003
From: borcis at users.ch (Borcis)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 21:33:47 +0200
Subject: Confusing automated translators.
References: <37d6f77c.0307130932.1e3adf0d@posting.google.com>	<3f11ac74$0$49101$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>	<ad052e5c.0307131718.4903430d@posting.google.com>	<3F12808B.E53193B8@hotmail.com> <87brvw3ula.fsf@pobox.com> <mailman.1058279187.32426.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3F14571B.9030906@users.ch>

Francois Pinard wrote:
> 
> Automated translators which ignore punctuation are pretty fragile, too.
> Here is a case where the exact same words are used, besides punctuation.
> I read in one of Audouard's books ("De la connerie et des cons", if
> I remember correctly), about Montcalm, a French Canadian military of
> old times.  The history reports that he said:
> 
>    "Messieurs les Anglais, tirez les premiers!"
> 
> but Audouard wrote that he fears the correct writing should have been
> something like:
> 
>    "Messieurs!  Les Anglais...  Tirez les premiers!"
> 
> P.S. - I confess I would have more difficulty relating this one to Python.
> The word categorisation disambiguation program that I intend to rewrite
> in Python, one of these days, would (correctly) yield the same results
> for both sentences, so Python-wise for me, this is a non-issue! :-)

Reminds me of sitting, a dozen years ago, through the exposition, by an
amator, of the theory of word stemming he had spent years, in his
corner, to polish; applied to machine translation - that was the
research activity of the institute I happened to work for at the time.

Someone had invited a local University's professor of linguistics,
specialized in morphology. That person apparently felt he needed to
debunk the amator's proposal, and started pedantically expounding :
"Your proposal to decompose prefix-stem-suffix to translate them
separately and recompose the result won't work if the stems are
not etymologically related (somehow the topic was translation between
closely related languages). Take for instance the pair <faire>, <do>..."

-- Of course it's possible : "faisable", "doable" !

Cheers, Boris Borcic
--
python >>> filter(lambda W : W not in "ILLITERATE","BULLSHIT")





From bokr at oz.net  Fri Jul 11 16:33:19 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 11 Jul 2003 20:33:19 GMT
Subject: Python - if/else statements
References: <pan.2003.07.11.19.34.16.330762@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <ben6uf$tcr$0@216.39.172.122>

On Sat, 12 Jul 2003 07:34:18 +1200, dmbkiwi <dmbkiwi at yahoo.com> wrote:

>I am new to this group, and relatively new to python programming, however,
>have encountered a problem I just cannot solve through reading the
>documentation, and searching this group on google.
>
>I have written a theme in python for the superkaramba theme engine on kde
>(see http://netdragon.sourceforge.net - if you are a kde/linux user, it is
>a great visual applet engine).  I have uploaded it to www.kdelook.org for
>others to download and use, however, some users are having an issue, which
>to me seems to be very strange.
>
>Basically the problem is that their version of python is ignoring an
>if/else statement, and I can't understand why.  Over 3000 people have
>downloaded the theme, and only 3 people have identified this problem.  The
>relevant portion of code is:
>
>def meterClicked(widget, meter, button):
>	#print "meterclick"
>	global dayshow, daypicrem, ddon, ddcon, buttonpressed
# these globals -- where do they come from? What module?
# Note that each module has its own globals, so is are there different modules
# that think they're sharing globals but really aren't? There are ways to solve that,
# but first, is that relevant?

# Second, are the globals accessible from multiple threads? Are you seeing hard-stuck
errors or blue-moon errors?

>	if (meter == mainpic) and (button == 1):
		# always here?
>		if ddcon == 0:
			# and here ?
>			if ddon == 1:
				# and here?
>				deleteDayDetail(widget, dayshow)
>				karamba.redrawWidget(widget)
>			createCurrentDetail(widget)
>			karamba.redrawWidget(widget)
>		else:
			# never here, you're saying, right?
			# <snip>
>	else:
		# never here either, right?
		# <snip>
	# get here though?
>	buttonpressed = 1
>
I used tabs above to line up (maybe ;-) with your text, but maybe you should
run your code through tabnanny or something to check for consistent usage.
I never use tabs (though I use the tab key and gvim puts in 4 space indentation for me ;-)
so I haven't used the tab checkers, but you might benefit, perhaps.

>What these users are experiencing is that this portion of code is being
>processed, and evaluating all if statements as true, however, as you can
>see, they cannot all be true each time this function is called.  Their
>versions of python also ignore the else construct.
>
>Can anyone shed any light on what might be going on with these users?
>
I'd check on the globals and threading issues first. Then see about building
a mousetrap.

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From jjl at pobox.com  Tue Jul  8 19:27:00 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 09 Jul 2003 00:27:00 +0100
Subject: Mock object creation by example?
Message-ID: <878yr88urf.fsf@pobox.com>

I had the bright idea a week or two ago to construct mock objects (for
unit testing) "by example" by calling methods on a generic mock
object.

Say we have a class Bar, and we want to check that, when we use
BarUser in a particular way, BarUser first calls method Bar.xyzzy with
args "foo" and bar=2, then method Bar.do_nothing.

# first, construct a mock object by example:
m = Mock()
m.xyzzy("foo", bar=2)
m.do_nothing()

# then run the test
m.start_test()
bu = BarUser(m)
bu.method_a("foo", 1, bar=2)
bu.method_b()


That's it, essentially.

It does needs a bit more complication than that to be useful.  For
example, a way specifying return values and exceptions to be expected,
a way of asking it to pretend to be a class object, ways of making
slightly fuzzy the expected number and order of calls and their
arguments, and the ability to easily inherit from Mock and override
methods etc.  For example, you might say:

m.return_something().returns(1)
m.raise_something().raises(Exception)


Of course, it turns out somebody else thought of it first.  For
example, in Java:

http://www.abstrakt.de/mockcreator.html


Anybody know if something like this already exists in Python?

Actually, looking at the examples on mockcreator's web page does lead
give you the suspicion that they've had some contact with a certain
language <wink>:

// setup of MockObjects
MockFoo mockFoo = new MockFoo();
mockFoo.expectDoSomething( "nobody expects", "the spanish inquisition" );

// Testcode 
assertEquals( "the spanish inquisition", mockFoo.doSomething( "nobodyExpects" ) );

// Verify
mockFoo.verify();


John



From m at moshez.org  Wed Jul  9 22:14:51 2003
From: m at moshez.org (Moshe Zadka)
Date: 10 Jul 2003 02:14:51 -0000
Subject: Sample Web application (Re: Python vs PHP)
In-Reply-To: <1057801996.3737.1223.camel@lothlorien>
References: <1057801996.3737.1223.camel@lothlorien>, <mailman.1057574470.1750.python-list@python.org>
	 <kmolgv4mp12o71ocion7ra0m2s9fcrqjdk@4ax.com>
	 <begc78$rui$1@mawar.singnet.com.sg> <VLicnfImRJLPkpGiRTvUqA@speakeasy.net>
	 <behc69$o3t$1@news1.wdf.sap-ag.de>
	 <mailman.1057772055.6056.python-list@python.org>
	 <tYqcnZji2bzS5ZGiRTvUqg@speakeasy.net>
Message-ID: <20030710021451.24619.qmail@green.zadka.com>

On 09 Jul 2003, Ian Bicking <ianb at colorstudy.com> wrote:

> I think installation is a major hindrance to Python's
> adoption as a web programming language -- a combination off difficult
> installation, and a lack of robustness and generality in installation
> methods.

Since PHP is widely adopted as a web programming language, I assume
you think PHP's installation methods are robusts and general?
Let me assure you, having done PHP configuration in Apache, it
is far from it -- in fact, it is buggy and annoying beyond all
measure. [I was *shocked* to discover, for example, I can't associate
all .html files in a directory with PHP. I am sure it is a great
visibility booster for PHP to have pages end with .php, but I didn't
care much for it.] 

I actually think that in a world where people think PHP installation
methods are sane, Python's barrier to entry (in that regard) is fairly
low.
-- 
Moshe Zadka -- http://moshez.org/
Buffy: I don't like you hanging out with someone that... short.
Riley: Yeah, a lot of young people nowadays are experimenting with shortness.
Agile Programming Language -- http://www.python.org/




From wenning_qiu at csgsystems.com  Tue Jul  8 17:54:22 2003
From: wenning_qiu at csgsystems.com (Wenning Qiu)
Date: 8 Jul 2003 14:54:22 -0700
Subject: Embedding Python, threading and scalability
Message-ID: <ec23a1ae.0307081354.5fc06cb@posting.google.com>

I am researching issues related to emdedding Python in C++ for a
project.

My project will be running on an SMP box and requires scalability.
However, my test shows that Python threading has very poor performance
in terms of  scaling. In fact it doesn't scale at all.

I wrote a simple test program to complete given number of iterations
of a simple loop. The total number of iterations can be divided evenly
among a number of threads. My test shows that as the number of threads
grows, the CPU usage grows and the response time gets longer. For
example, to complete the same amount of work, one thread takes 10
seconds, 2 threads take 20 seconds and 3 threads take 30 seconds.

The fundamental reason for lacking scalability is that Python uses a
global interpreter lock for thread safety. That global lock must be
held by a thread before it can safely access Python objects.

I thought I might be able to make embedded Python scalable by
embedding multiple interpreters and have them run independently in
different threads. However "Python/C API Reference Manual" chapter 8
says that "The global interpreter lock is also shared by all threads,
regardless of to which interpreter they belong". Therefore with
current implementation, even multiple interpreters do not provide
scalability.

Has anyone on this list run into the same problem that I have, or does
anyone know of any plan of totally insulating multiple embedded Python
interpreters?

Thanks,
Wenning Qiu



From wilkSPAM at OUTflibuste.net  Wed Jul 30 11:57:04 2003
From: wilkSPAM at OUTflibuste.net (Wilk)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 17:57:04 +0200
Subject: plug: pyBoards.com
References: <191e20c8.0307300703.6e84b9ed@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <87y8ygnh2n.fsf@flibuste.net>

usenet at kyle.sent.com (Kyle Babich) writes:

> <plug type="shameless">
> pyBoards.com is a community for all of you Python programmers out
> there.  So, why not take a minute to stop by and register?
> </plug>

The shame is to use a php forum... ;-p

-- 
William Dode - http://flibuste.net



From ianb at colorstudy.com  Sun Jul 13 15:48:09 2003
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: 13 Jul 2003 14:48:09 -0500
Subject: anything like C++ references?
In-Reply-To: <qi13hv4s21i8mtr2e600jumm54hqs7tppu@4ax.com>
References: <000301c348c7$3c501980$21795418@dell1700>
	 <iqm2hvs77lhe1m71v9b579070khbf0uv0a@4ax.com>
	 <berqqd$ad5$1@panix3.panix.com>
	 <brs2hv8edfv0d1fch9mha8otuulajnkh0g@4ax.com> <bes0ps$l6$1@panix3.panix.com>
	 <qi13hv4s21i8mtr2e600jumm54hqs7tppu@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <1058125689.28468.410.camel@lothlorien>

On Sun, 2003-07-13 at 12:51, Stephen Horne wrote:
> On 13 Jul 2003 12:19:08 -0400, aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) wrote:
> 
> >Whether one can mutate a specific object is simply an
> >attribute of that object, rather than requiring a different syntax.
> >Trying to focus on the mutable/immutable distinction is what causes the
> >mental blowup -- keep your eye on the objects and bindings and you're
> >fine.
> 
> That's exactly it - you have to focus on whether an object is mutable
> or immutable for that exact reason.

No you don't!  Mutable and immutable objects act the same with respect
to assignment.  However, because you cannot change a immutable object in
place, to get a different value you must rebind.  You must *use* mutable
and immutable objects differently -- but that is not surprising, because
they are obviously very different objects!  You have to use integers and
lists differently in part because one is mutable and the other isn't --
but mostly because one is a number and the other is a list.  Different
objects are different!

Python is not novel in the way it deals with variables.  Scheme and
Smalltalk, for instance, act exactly the same, as do many other
dynamically typed languages (though there are different opinions on
whether strings should be mutable -- but it's agreed there has to be
some immutable string-like type, e.g. symbol).  The reason you are
getting this reaction is that anyone that comes from those backgrounds
thinks you are crazy, as does anyone who has embraced the Python model. 
This isn't a funny little feature, this is the way all strong,
dynamically typed languages work.

> While I admit I'm not sure, I believe that in early versions of Python
> immutable values literally were copied. Mutable types were made
> mutable because of efficiency concerns about copying overheads that
> would occur otherwise. If an object is large enough that it is
> worthwhile modifying items within it in-place then it tends to be
> worthwhile trying to avoid copying overheads, even though these two
> aspects of 'mutability' are actually quite distinct in principle.

The problem you have is you are still thinking of variables as slots,
which is not correct.  Variables in Python are bindings.  Assignment
never copies anything, or creates anything except for changing the
variable to point to a different address location.  *Every* Python
assignment (a=b) is like the C assignment (a=&b).  

> Tell me one case where it is sensible for a function to behave such
> that whether the caller sees a change in a variable it passed as its
> argument should depend on the type.

Generally a function takes either immutable values (e.g., ints and
floats) or mutable values for a certain argument.

However, there is a class of operations which are generally operate in
an immutable manner, that is, create copies of the objects instead of
changing them in place.  So even though lists are mutable, list
concatenation does not mutate, and in general adding two things (with +)
will not mutate either object.  Immutable values, by design, do not have
the same methods and operations as the mutable counterparts (or at least
the mutating methods of those mutable objects).  *That* would be a
design bug.

> Tell me one case where an object storing values should care about
> callers mutating values it holds *only* for certain types.

Objects don't *store* values, they *refer* to values.  You are still
thinking like you're in C (or C++).  This is why you are having a
problem.

  Ian






From jorgencederberg at hotmail.com  Thu Jul 24 02:58:53 2003
From: jorgencederberg at hotmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F8rgen_Cederberg?=)
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 08:58:53 +0200
Subject: Tkinter Listbox looses selection on Tab
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1058945736.15761.python-list@python.org>
References: <117880a1.0307221040.60a27c0d@posting.google.com> <mailman.1058945736.15761.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <MsLTa.17$sb2.3@news.get2net.dk>

Martin Franklin wrote:
> On Tuesday 22 July 2003 19:40, J?rgen Hansen wrote:
> 
>>Hi
>>
>>I have a problem with a Listbox in Tkinter. When I tab through several
>>widgets with the tab-key, the listbox looses its selection, even
>>though it has been selected with .selection_set. The example below
>>demonstrates this. Can anyone provide me with some help on this?
>>
>>Regards
>>Jorgen
>>
>>Ps. I'm on a W2K machine with Python 2.2.2
>>
>>----
>>from Tkinter import *
>>
>>root = Tk()
>>colors = ['Yellow', 'Black', 'White', 'Green']
>>
>>lb = Listbox(root)
> 
> 
> 
> Jorgen,
> 
> Try setting exportselection=0 in the Listbox construction like so:
> 
> lb = Listbox(root, exportselection=0)
> 
> This seems to work on my linux box.
> 
> 
> Martin
> 
> 

Hi Martin,

It worked on my W2K machine too! Thanks alot. I skimmed through some 
TCL/TK documentation, but I'm still somewhat puzzled over the default 
behavior.

But I'm sure I'll figure it out someday.

Have a nice day
Jorgen




From bokr at oz.net  Thu Jul 17 17:15:00 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 17 Jul 2003 21:15:00 GMT
Subject: Regular expression help
References: <LApRa.5420$Qe5.2628@nwrddc03.gnilink.net> <mailman.1058424506.12031.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bf73kk$mo1$0@216.39.172.122>

On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 08:44:50 +0200, "Fredrik Lundh" <fredrik at pythonware.com> wrote:

>David Lees wrote:
>
>> I forget how to find multiple instances of stuff between tags using
>> regular expressions.  Specifically I want to find all the text between a
>> series of begin/end pairs in a multiline file.
>>
>> I tried:
>>  >>> p = 'begin(.*)end'
>>  >>> m = re.search(p,s,re.DOTALL)
>>
>> and got everything between the first begin and last end.  I guess
>> because of a greedy match.  What I want to do is a list where each
>> element is the text between another begin/end pair.
>
>people will tell you to use non-greedy matches, but that's often a
>bad idea in cases like this: the RE engine has to store lots of back-
would you say so for this case? Or how like this case?

>tracking information, and your program will consume a lot more
>memory than it has to (and may run out of stack and/or memory).
For the above case, wouldn't the regex compile to a state machine
that just has a few states to recognize e out of .*  and then revert to .*
if the next is not n, and if it is, then look for d similarly, and if not,
revert to .*, etc or finish? For a short terminating match, it would seem
relatively cheap?

>at this point, it's also obvious that you don't really have to use
>regular expressions:
>
>    pos = 0
>
>    while 1:
>        start = text.find("begin", pos)
>        if start < 0:
>            break
>        start += 5
>        end = text.find("end", start)
>        if end < 0:
>            break
>        process(text[start:end])
>        pos = end # move forward
>
></F>
 
Or breaking your loop with an exception instead of tests:

 >>> text = """begin s1 end
 ... sdfsdf
 ... begin s2 end
 ... """

 >>> def process(s): print 'processing(%r)'%s
 ...
 >>> try:
 ...     end = 0 # end of previous search
 ...     while 1:
 ...         start = text.index("begin", end) + 5
 ...         end = text.index("end", start)
 ...         process(text[start:end])
 ... except ValueError:
 ...    pass
 ...
 processing(' s1 ')
 processing(' s2 ')

Or if you're guaranteed that every begin has an end, you could also write

 >>> for begxxx in text.split('begin')[1:]:
 ...    process(begxxx.split('end')[0])
 ...
 processing(' s1 ')
 processing(' s2 ')


Regards,
Bengt Richter



From kmj9907 at cs.rit.edu  Mon Jul 28 02:11:30 2003
From: kmj9907 at cs.rit.edu (Keith Jones)
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 06:11:30 GMT
Subject: How to reverse lookup characters in list?
References: <mailman.1059365860.23474.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2003.07.28.06.15.30.615723@cs.rit.edu>

okay, isn't the number in the list the index of the new letter? So you'd
just use alphabet[d].. though what you're doing can be done in a much
simpler manner..

for starters... check out the string module. you can do

import string
string.lowercase

that gives you a-z, lowercase.. I think you'll be fine with a string,
rather than a list (infact, it's better since it's immutable). If you must
ahve a list, you can do

[a for a in string.lowercase]

to get a list of characters from a to z.

Now, all you're really doing with all those lists and loops is just
mapping from one character to another. In fact, you're just doing a rotX,
where x is the value of your variable v

you could just do:

rotation = int(raw_input('rotation value: ')) 
word = raw_input('word: ')
....................
new_word = ''
for char in word:
  position = string.lowercase.index(char) 
  position += rotation
  
  # this makes it wrap around. i.e. 'z'+2 = 'b' 
  position = position % 26
  
  new_word += string.lowercase[position]

print 'your new word is', new_word
....................

Hope that helps some.

On Mon, 28 Jul 2003 00:15:35 -0400, tjlan wrote:



> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> from time import sleep
> #Alphabet list used to move letters forward for simple encryption.
> alphabet =
> ["a","b","c","d","e","f","g","h","i","j","k","l","m","n","o","p","q....
> 
> word_list = []
> number_list = []
> number_list2 = []
> new_word = []
> #variable for how far you want to switch v = 2
> word = raw_input("Word: ")
> a = len(word)
> for x in range(0, len(word)):
>     print word[x],
>     word_list.append(word[x])
>     b = alphabet.index(word[x])
>     number_list.append(b)
> 
> for x in range(0, len(number_list)):
>     c = number_list[x]
>     c = c + v
>     number_list2.append(c)
> 
> for x in range(0, len(number_list2)):
>     d = number_list2[x]
>     new_word.append(d)
> 
> for x in range(0,
> #Stopped here because dont know of way to switch back.




From staschuk at telusplanet.net  Mon Jul 21 21:06:55 2003
From: staschuk at telusplanet.net (Steven Taschuk)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 19:06:55 -0600
Subject: recognizing empty iterators
In-Reply-To: <2259b0e2.0307210626.11a1bbf1@posting.google.com>; from mis6@pitt.edu on Mon, Jul 21, 2003 at 07:26:15AM -0700
References: <2259b0e2.0307210626.11a1bbf1@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20030721190655.A1960@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>

Quoth Michele Simionato:
> [...] In other words I am looking for an
> "isempty" function to use in "if" statements such as
> 
> if isempty(iterator):
>    do_something()
> 
> without side effects. [...]

I don't have anything substantial to add to others' posts, but I
wonder: under what circumstances do you want to do this?

-- 
Steven Taschuk                                7\ 7'Z {&~         .
staschuk at telusplanet.net                        Y r          --/hG-
                                            (__/ )_             1^1`




From andychup at yahoo.com  Thu Jul 31 20:36:41 2003
From: andychup at yahoo.com (Andy C)
Date: 31 Jul 2003 17:36:41 -0700
Subject: How do I get a reference to a KEY value of a dictionary?
Message-ID: <645db655.0307311636.71923378@posting.google.com>

I am new to python, so please bear with me if I am making some
conceptual error.

Basically I want to create a graph with an adjacency list
representation, but I don't want any of the adjacency lists to have
duplicate strings when it is avoidable.  I have a function createEdge
that adds an edge to the graph.  The arguments will be distinct since
they are read from text files.  But basically I want to use the
dictionary as a string pool, and if the argument string equals
something in the pool already, don't use the argument string, just a
use a reference to something in the string pool already.

Is this a waste of time?  Because I know in python I cannot be certain
that the argument strings that are read from files are even garbage
collected anyway.  I could certainly do the job with duplicate
strings, but it would seem wasteful.  I am a C programmer, and old
habits die hard.

The following code works -- I tested it and entries in the adjacency
list that are equivalent are in fact identical.  But it seems rather
stupid to have a dictionary of the form {'alice': 'alice', 'bob':
'bob'}, etc.  i.e. the keys and values are the same.  It would be nice
if I can get a reference to the key in the same time as a hash lookup.
 I know I can do dictionary.keys().index( 'string' ) or something but
that would be pretty inefficient, I believe.

class GraphAccumulator:
    def __init__( self, fileFunction ):
        self.fileFunction = fileFunction
        self.adjList = {}                       # adjacency list
        self.nodes = {}                         # list of nodes for
preventing string dupes

    def createEdge( self, node1, node2 ):

        # another way of doing by using a dictionary

        nodes = self.nodes
        if nodes.has_key( node2 ):
            node2 = nodes[ node2 ]            
        else:
            nodes[ node2 ] = node2            

        adjList = self.adjList            
        if adjList.has_key( node1 ):
            adjList[ node1 ].append( node2 );
        else:
            adjList[ node1 ] = [ node2 ];       # singleton edge list



From alanmk at hotmail.com  Thu Jul 10 06:59:52 2003
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 11:59:52 +0100
Subject: mx odbc
References: <3f0accb5$0$13191$edfadb0f@dread15.news.tele.dk> <mailman.1057680332.32247.python-list@python.org> <3f0bce6d$0$13245$edfadb0f@dread15.news.tele.dk> <un0fnz7fu.fsf@fitlinxx.com> <3f0d32e5$0$13253$edfadb0f@dread15.news.tele.dk>
Message-ID: <3F0D4728.45284530@hotmail.com>

Kim Petersen wrote:

> I have no idea about the support (obviously) - but then i hardly ever
> buy/use support for development tools [especially not open-source ones].

Well, that just about says it all for the theory that "open source
developers should make their money from services".

What many people seem to forget is that maintaining high quality
software *is* a service: in the case of mxODBC, a very high quality
service. If M-A-L didn't charge licensing fees, then he'd be providing
a high quality service, i.e. well designed, maintained and up-to-date
software, without any income at all, since, in general, developers
don't buy support for development tools, unless they absolutely must.

Kim Petersen wrote:

> [snip] paying 70$ pr.
> customer, is the equivalent of paying you for 1hr of support for each
> customer [not installation mind you], where our own licence/supportcost
> is already getting lower and lower

It's a free market: pick another (cheaper) ODBC driver and use that
instead. Just make sure that your customers understand that they will
get a poorer quality product from you because they're paying you less
money, so you have to use lower quality components in your software:
I wonder how long they'll be your customers.

Kim Petersen wrote:

> We work in teams - so that would be 1250*4 making the below calculation
> 18*4 (and we're not able to pull in freelancers on this kinda stuff then
> - other than paying another 1250). 

And how much would you pay these freelancers? Probably quite a
substantial amount over the weeks or months that you retain them,
and probably *far* in excess of the developer license cost for mxODBC.
How much improved productivity will you get from those developers
because they're not spending a week chasing weird bugs in the
database/ODBC code?

I feel quite annoyed when people give out about having to pay money
for software: someone, somewhere has to write that software: that
someone has to pay the rent, the utility bills, etc, etc, etc, etc.
Demanding that everyone work for nothing is completely unreasonable:
just because you're too stingy to pay for what you get. Some OSS
developers are fortunate enough that they don't have to charge money
for their software, because the government, or the education system,
or some charitable foundation, pays their wages. But that's not true
for all OSS developers.

To those who continue to complain about having to pay for software,
I say: If you don't like paying, fork the software, maintain your
own product and let it be free (both in the free-speech and the
free-beer senses): see how you long *you* last.

not-biting-the-hand-that-feeds-ly yrs.

-- 
alan kennedy
-----------------------------------------------------
check http headers here: http://xhaus.com/headers
email alan:              http://xhaus.com/mailto/alan



From intentionally at blank.co.uk  Thu Jul 17 13:17:38 2003
From: intentionally at blank.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 18:17:38 +0100
Subject: anything like C++ references?
References: <mailman.1058225603.22981.python-list@python.org> <2a07hvo1ft7q7gedt4hq16g518iom905lu@4ax.com> <mailman.1058333068.12050.python-list@python.org> <rkbbhvckjv6hotsns9upcift64oqp4qtoc@4ax.com> <mailman.1058406866.18771.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <66mdhvcm18bjm4f507q576evpau4hpmmq0@4ax.com>

On 17 Jul 2003 03:54:58 +0200, Heiko Wundram <heikowu at ceosg.de> wrote:

>On Wed, 2003-07-16 at 22:02, Stephen Horne wrote:
>> The pointer thing was raised in the context of a larger discussion. It
>> *would* be necessary if another change was made (don't worry, it won't
>> happen).
>
>I know the broader discussion context, but if changes like those (e.g.
>copy on write) were to happen at some further point in time, that would
>definitely be the moment for me to stop using Python, and switch to
>Ruby.

I already said a long time ago that these weren't serious suggestions
for Python. I used words something like "python wouldn't be python any
more" and "in an alternative universe, maybe".




From LogiplexSoftware at earthlink.net  Thu Jul  3 18:25:47 2003
From: LogiplexSoftware at earthlink.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: 03 Jul 2003 15:25:47 -0700
Subject: wxPython mouse controls
In-Reply-To: <9afd3f36.0307030127.2abc37a1@posting.google.com>
References: <9afd3f36.0307030127.2abc37a1@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1057271147.16862.37.camel@software1.logiplex.internal>

On Thu, 2003-07-03 at 02:27, Jim Shady wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I am looking at the feasibility in using wxPython on a project our
> company needs.
> 
> I intend to show a bar graph in a frame. I can either generate an
> image and show it in a panel, or maybe draw it on a canvas (?). Either
> case, the vital feature that we need is the ability to choose parts of
> the bar by clicking and dragging on it. The selected portion will then
> be zoomed into again by the software, generating a new bar graph.
> 
> Is this possible using wxPython?

Yes.  If you plan on using wxPython you should subscribe to the wxPython
mailing list:

http://www.wxpython.org/maillist.php

-- 
Cliff Wells, Software Engineer
Logiplex Corporation (www.logiplex.net)
(503) 978-6726  (800) 735-0555





From max at alcyone.com  Thu Jul 24 00:12:34 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 21:12:34 -0700
Subject: file.close()
References: <edITa.131868$Ph3.17333@sccrnsc04> <3F1F5297.15D768EF@alcyone.com> <slrnbhukr8.13c.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>
Message-ID: <3F1F5CB2.7FB4C205@alcyone.com>

Ben Finney wrote:

> It seems that nesting the 'try' clauses doesn't scale well.  What if
> fifty files are opened?  Must the nesting level of the 'try' clauses
> be
> fifty also, to close them promptly?

If you're manipulating fifty files in one block, presumably you're doing
so in a uniform way:

	allFiles = [...]
	try:
	    ...
	finally:
	    for eachFile in allFiles:
	        eachFile.close()

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ Man is a hating rather than a loving animal.
\__/  Rebecca West



From daniel.dittmar at sap.com  Wed Jul  9 11:26:01 2003
From: daniel.dittmar at sap.com (Daniel Dittmar)
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 17:26:01 +0200
Subject: Sample Web application (Re: Python vs PHP)
References: <mailman.1057574470.1750.python-list@python.org> <kmolgv4mp12o71ocion7ra0m2s9fcrqjdk@4ax.com> <begc78$rui$1@mawar.singnet.com.sg> <VLicnfImRJLPkpGiRTvUqA@speakeasy.net>
Message-ID: <behc69$o3t$1@news1.wdf.sap-ag.de>

A.M. Kuchling wrote:
> At PyCon, it was generally agreed at the Web programming BoF that the
> authors of the various Python frameworks should all implement the same
> example application so that potential users can compare the resulting
> code. Nothing much has been done on this front since then; we should
> get things moving again by figuring out what the example application
> should be. The Java Pet Store was suggested, but it was pointed out
> that it's a very large application, requiring too much effort for an
> author to do in their spare time.

Ian Bicking did something like this with
http://colorstudy.com/docs/shootout.html with a Wiki as the example
application. If there is interest, I would volunteer to copy this into the
Wiki so that it can be more easily extended. I already got Ian's
permissionto do so, but was so far too lazy for it.

> Let's think about the requirements for an example application:
>
>       * Should be implementable in a few evenings
>       * Should exercise a reasonable set of features.
>       * HTML generation (duh!)
> * Accepting a form
> * Returning non-HTML files (generating a GIF, say)
>       * Sessions

* access control


I suggest using
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/moinmoin/WebProgrammingShootOut as the entry
point for the specification of the application.

Daniel






From gtewalt at earthlink.net  Tue Jul  1 14:48:16 2003
From: gtewalt at earthlink.net (gt)
Date: 1 Jul 2003 11:48:16 -0700
Subject: Newbie: Tkinter and macPython
References: <f9b7c11d.0306281825.5cf24367@posting.google.com> <bdq5nv$2bdo$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <f9b7c11d.0307011048.377579a4@posting.google.com>

"Russell E. Owen" <no at spam.invalid> wrote in message news:<bdq5nv$2bdo$1 at nntp6.u.washington.edu>...
> In article <f9b7c11d.0306281825.5cf24367 at posting.google.com>,
>  gtewalt at earthlink.net (gt) wrote:
> 
> >I'm waffling between Ruby, and Python as a programming
> >language.
> >I borrowed a friends book on Ruby, and have played with 
> >it a bit.
> >I went by the library to check out 'Learning Python'
> >but i was too late, the library had closed already...
> >
> >Anyway, to the point.
> >I downloaded macPython for OSX, and was trying to get
> >a simpe Tkinter example to work form Lundh's tutorial,
> >I think it was.
> >Bu I get an error...
> >
> ># File: hello1.py
> 
> You have hit MacPython at a slightly awkward time. MacPython (through 
> version 2.2.x) runs as a carbon application on MacOS X and the Tk 
> interface was never "carbonized" (I think because the underlying Tk was 
> never carbonized, but whatever the reason, the fact is it will not 
> work). (MacPython can also be configured as a classic app, simply by 
> double clicking the suitable application in the installation, in which 
> case Tkinter runs just fine at least if you boot into MacOS 9, I'm not 
> sure if it runs in Classic emulation mode.)
> 
> If you want to run Python 2.2.x/Tkinter on MacOS X you can do it as 
> follows:
> 
> Download and install aqua tcl/tk. Version 8.4.1 is the latest that will 
> work with Python 2.2.x. A binary distribution is available from 
> <http://www.maths.mq.edu.au/~steffen/tcltk/TclTkAqua/>; there are three 
> flavors available; I recommend TclTkAqua (having "wish" around is nice. 
> I'm not sure the full "BI" version adds anything you'll find useful.
> 
> Download and install Python. For Python 2.2.x I suggest using Bob 
> Ippolito's binary installer <http://redivi.com/~bob/>, since it includes 
> Tkinter and some other useful stuff already built. Note that it also 
> includes wxPython, an alternate GUI that you may wish to look at.
> 
> If you prefer to install thiss stuff from source, my home page 
> <http://www.astro.washington.edu/owen/> has a suitable link. Installing 
> from source is not for the faint of heart (though it'll be easier for 
> Python 2.3).
> 
> Warning: unix Python 2.2.2 requires \n line endings for files, which is 
> not the Mac norm. Any decent text editor (e.g. BBEdit or Pepper) *can* 
> save files with \n, but you have to configure it to do it. This problem 
> will go away with Python 2.3.
> 
> 
> Python 2.3 will be the first version that unifies "MacPython" and unix 
> Python (thanks to hard work by Jack Jansen and others). Python 2.3b1 is 
> available now from Jack's MacPython site 
> <http://homepages.cwi.nl/~jack/macpython.html>. Install aqua Tk/tcl as 
> above, then install the 2.3b1 binary installer. You have to do a bit 
> more work to get Tkinter installed -- I think MacPython 2.3b1 comes with 
> a package manager that will do the job, but I've not yet tried it.
> 
> I personally use both 2.3b1 and have had no problems with it. (I 
> actually have a dual installation; 2.3b1 with aqua Tk and 2.2.2 with 
> unix style x-windowing Tk; both work well.)
> 
> In conclusion, life will be grand when Python 2.3 is released. Meanwhile 
> it's a bit of work, but not too bad.
> 
> 
> I hope this helps.
> 
> -- Russell

Wow.
I never expected anything this thourough for a response.
Thanks Russell.
I have actually installed MacPython 2.3b1.
I tried the package manager, but at the time it wouldnt connect to
the 'database' (if I remember correctly)
At any rate, it looks like I need aqua Tk.
It would seem that I should un-install 2.3b1, install
aqua Tk, then reinstall 2.3b1 and implement the package manager.
Thanks again.

  -- Greg



From mwh at python.net  Tue Jul 15 11:57:44 2003
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 15:57:44 GMT
Subject: How to give a custom object instance a type name ?
References: <DAwQa.168$O05.9536@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au> <beu76g$8t8vu$1@ID-67890.news.uni-berlin.de> <ImxQa.200$O05.10579@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au>
Message-ID: <7h3adbfn60d.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

"Graeme Matthew" <gsmatthew at ozemail.com.au> writes:

> works fine, ta
> 
> x.__class__.__name__
> 'Dispatcher'
> >>>

You could also use new-style classes, btw.

Cheers,
M.

-- 
  Windows installation day one.  Getting rid of the old windows 
  was easy - they fell apart quite happily, and certainly wont 
  be re-installable anywhere else.   -- http://www.linux.org.uk/diary/
                                       (not *that* sort of windows...)



From janeaustine50 at hotmail.com  Wed Jul  2 01:46:18 2003
From: janeaustine50 at hotmail.com (Jane Austine)
Date: 1 Jul 2003 22:46:18 -0700
Subject: __del__ not working with cyclic reference? (and memory-leaked?)
References: <ba1e306f.0307011837.269e3d2a@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <ba1e306f.0307012146.6b8224e3@posting.google.com>

"Aahz" <aahz at pythoncraft.com> wrote in message news:bdtlji$pmh$1 at panix2.panix.com...
> In article <ba1e306f.0307011837.269e3d2a at posting.google.com>,
> Jane Austine <janeaustine50 at hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >I have some code using singleton pattern. The singleton instance
> >is shared as a class variable. The problem is that the singleton
> >instance is not cleared automatically.
> >
> >Following is a simplified version that shows the problem:
> >
> >--------
> >#foobar.py
> >class FooBar:
> >    def __del__(self):
> >        print "FooBar removed"
> >
> >FooBar.foobar=FooBar()
> >--------
> >
> >Why is this so? Due to the cyclic reference? Isn't python's gc
> >supposed to treat it? What singleton idiom is recommended 
> >otherwise?
> 
> There are two issues that you'll run into with this: gc doesn't work on
> classes that define __del__(), and prior to Python 2.3, gc doesn't run
> on exit.
> -- 
> Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/
> 

I read the gc module reference thoroughly and
thanks to your short comment, I could understand it.
(I should not use __del__ for singleton patterns, but
any other alternatives?)

But does the fact that __del__ is not called for some
objects mean they are not freed from memory and therefore
memory-leaked?



From duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk  Fri Jul 11 09:45:57 2003
From: duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk (Duncan Booth)
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 13:45:57 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: text file edit object
References: <A128D751272CD411BC9200508BC2194D0188574D@escpl.tcp.com.ar> <mailman.1057928298.10364.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Xns93B595E0CFA1Dduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com> wrote in
news:mailman.1057928298.10364.python-list at python.org: 

> Should be, though you have the obvious overhead of gulping the entire
> file. For very large files it would probably be more efficient to read
> the file in smaller chunks and only avoid writing the last ten lines. 
> However, the code gets that much more baroque. ;-)

It doesn't have to get terribly baroque:

def skiplast(n, iterable):
    """skiplast(n, iterable) -> iterator

    Yields all but the last n entries from the iterable"""
    buffer = []
    for value in iterable:
        buffer.append(value)
        if len(buffer) > n:
            yield buffer.pop(0)

Then you can do:

   infile = file("foo.txt", "r")
   outfile = file("foo.txt.new", "w")
   for line in skiplast(10, infile):
       outfile.write(line)
   infile.close()
   outfile.close()

Refactoring to avoid shuffling the data in the buffer is left as an 
exercise for anyone who feels it to be a problem.

-- 
Duncan Booth                                             duncan at rcp.co.uk
int month(char *p){return(124864/((p[0]+p[1]-p[2]&0x1f)+1)%12)["\5\x8\3"
"\6\7\xb\1\x9\xa\2\0\4"];} // Who said my code was obscure?



From skip at pobox.com  Fri Jul 25 16:45:36 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 15:45:36 -0500
Subject: Beefing up socket.ssl(...)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SOL.4.53L.0307251607120.9371@mahler.udel.edu>
References: <ZPaUa.6$gZ.133@news.oracle.com>
        <84e0f331.0307251036.6504b16a@posting.google.com>
        <Pine.SOL.4.53L.0307251453400.8134@mahler.udel.edu>
        <16161.36214.435946.860897@montanaro.dyndns.org>
        <Pine.SOL.4.53L.0307251607120.9371@mahler.udel.edu>
Message-ID: <16161.38640.870082.867246@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    >> http://www.python.org/patches/

    Ed> I'm not sure whether this "functional change" would be considered a
    Ed> "bug fix" or "feature addition".  The SSL support in socketmodule.c
    Ed> seems to be lacking almost to the point of being "unusable"... I
    Ed> can't imagine anyone actually using it for anything "real" in it's
    Ed> current state, and in that sense, it may be legitimate to call my
    Ed> changes a "bug fix".

This is open source.  If you don't submit the code, who will? ;-)

Also, note that the SSL code has been factored out into Modules/_ssl.c.

    Ed> Or I could just hack on socketmodule.c with every new Python release
    Ed> and hope that someone eventually adds better SSL support.

If nobody ever submits such code it will never get into Python.  Essentially
all functionality that's there today is because writing it scratched an itch
for the author.

Skip





From stuart at gallpath.com  Thu Jul  3 08:38:53 2003
From: stuart at gallpath.com (Stuart Galloway)
Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 12:38:53 GMT
Subject: module and file locations
Message-ID: <xtVMa.720$JI4.10080@news-server.bigpond.net.au>

Hi,

I am writing a debugging a Tkinter program.

While debugging I want to run it by pressing F5.
When in use I want to run it by double-clicking (win2000)

The program reads and write to various files which I want to store in 
the same directory (or a sub directory) of the main script.

My question is: How can my program where it lives so I can get the base 
directory?
argv[0]  - will this work debugging if I just import the file?
There is some about finding where a module is.  This seems to return 
readable text that would require parsing rather than just a file name

Thanks,

Stuart




From owski at hotmail.com  Tue Jul 15 13:21:39 2003
From: owski at hotmail.com (Adam Ruth)
Date: 15 Jul 2003 10:21:39 -0700
Subject: anything like C++ references?
References: <000301c348c7$3c501980$21795418@dell1700>  <sag3hv4vf884ed7ouu5cv8ofnopp9j1t12@4ax.com>  <f0f51c80.0307132003.264b6894@posting.google.com>  <7dc4hvslh7a8fk9p6cvsfqa1c8d44rmmnv@4ax.com>  <beuepu$bsm$1@panix3.panix.com>  <sdd6hvsmsq32o62oknpqft6dc61lbup8rn@4ax.com> <20030714173855120-0600@news.xmission.com> <9mh6hv45v18apgn6lp7bo6mm63e5oba9rd@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <f0f51c80.0307150921.7b6667e2@posting.google.com>

Stephen Horne <intentionally at blank.co.uk> wrote in message news:<9mh6hv45v18apgn6lp7bo6mm63e5oba9rd at 4ax.com>...
> >You say that there is one gold standard definition for what a variable 
> >is.  Yet even though C++ deals with variables in three semantically 
> >distinct way, they are somehow all valid within that definition?
> 
> C++ does not deal with variables in three semantically distinct ways.
> It provides a wide range of data types (including pointer types and
> reference types) and, in keeping with the mathematical concept of an
> abstract data type, each has both its own set of values and its own
> set of operations. The only way in which semantics vary from variable
> to variable is in that some of those semantics are tied to the
> abstract data type.

I was going to stay out of this thread because we were just retreading
the same ground with different wording, and it was pointless.  But
here you've brought up something that is completely false, and new to
the discussion:

> C++ does not deal with variables in three semantically distinct ways.

You're correct, it deals with variables in more than three
semantically distinct ways.  Now, semantic may mean something
different to you than it does to me, but if I have two variables and I
cannot use the same syntax with each, they're semantically different. 
Let's look at some of the differences.

int i = 1;
*i = 5;

Does this work?  No, it doesn't, because pointers are semantically
different than non pointers.

register int x = 5;
int *y = &x;

This also cannot be done.  Why?  Different semantics for register
variables.

int y = 1;
int x = 2;
int &m = y;
m = x;

Now, here are two problemmatic things.  1)  References are just
pointers with syntactic sugar, right?  Well, it's a pretty thick layer
of sugar.  Not only can't you use * to dereference, but you don't use
& to get the reference, and you don't use -> to access members. 
References are in the netherworld between pointers and regular
variables.  In some cases they act like variables, in others they act
like pointers.  Now that's confusing.

2) C++ makes a strong distinction between the initialization operator,
=, and the assignment operator, =.  Both const and reference variables
use them differently.  To me, that's a really big violation of proper
'computer science', because conceptually they're the *same* thing. 
But because of context, C++ makes a distinction.  Python has no such
distinction, initialization and assigment are always the same.

(This is true of all static languages with the concept of a constant,
and I don't really disagree with it as a valuable idiom, but it is
inconsistent internally, where Python is consistent.  Do any languages
use a different operator for initialization?)

Now here's one that's very germain to the topic:

void mod(char *value) { value[0] = 'a'; }
char *str = "hello world";
mod(str);

What about this one?  str is immutable (or more accurately, its value
is immutable).  How does mod know this?  It doesn't, it's a seg fault.
 Now, not only is str immutable, but its not inferrable at any point
within the function (I guess you could look at it's region in memory,
but then you're really down at the implementation layer).  Does this
violate 'computer science' principles?  I'd say it violates the
principles you've put forward.


> Even when using pointers, the binding of variables to
> values is preserved. It is merely that pointer values provide an
> indirect way of referencing a store location, or placeholder, which
> may be manipulated (ie bound to a different value) using some other
> means of identifying that placeholder.

The only real difference between this and Python is that in C you're
looking at a region in memory that is most always mutable.  Python
doesn't need to follow this idiom to be correct.  Why?  Because Python
doesn't have regions in memory, it's a non-existent concept.  In C you
have variable -> memory -> value.  In Python you have variable ->
value.  You may not like this, but I don't think you can correctly say
that the C way is 'better' or 'more in line with computer science'. 
And it certainly isn't more confusing, that's a crock.  What you need
to know to work with variables in Python is a much smaller base of
knowledge than what you need to work with C++.  To you it doesn't seem
that way, because C++ is second nature to you.  But if you took two
novice programmers and tried to explain both ways, the persion
learning Python would 'get it' much sooner, because there's much less
to 'get'.

All I have to do is think about the blank stares I get when I try to
teach a new programmer about pointers.  It's a difficult concept to
get, and it's difficult mainly because you need to understand
implementation to get it, something you constantly accuse Python of. 
In C++ you *need* to know implementation of pointers, references, etc
to be effective.  And you will be surprised quite often by confusing
and unexpected semantics and behavior.  That just doesn't exist in
Python, when I make an assignment, I *know* what's going to happen.

And even if C++ is more 'correct' from a computer science standpoint,
Python is more simple, concise, and consistent.  I'll take that any
day.

Getting back to the original topic of the discussion, pass by
reference.  There's a very, very good reason Python doesn't do it:
It's not necessary.  It only exists in C and C++ to overcome
limitations in both languages.  Those limitations *don't* exist in
Python, so there's no need for pass by reference.  There is no example
of a situation where pass by reference is the only way to do things,
in fact, the way that Python works allows for much *better* ways to
achieve those goals.  It's simply unnecessary.



From alanmk at hotmail.com  Wed Jul  9 12:20:09 2003
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 17:20:09 +0100
Subject: QUESTION
References: <F7DB8D13DB61D511B6FF00B0D0F062330559722C@mail.hebmex.com> <mailman.1057766175.16425.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3F0C40B9.E607A784@hotmail.com>

Matt5883 at aol.com wrote:

> What is python 2.1.1?  

Skip Montanaro wrote:

> I think you might want to be careful about deleting Python from your
> COMPAQ.  It appears that COMPAQ did actually deliver Python on some
> of their systems:
>
> http://wingide.com/pipermail/marketing-python/2003-February/001050.html

That's fascinating. And a great development for python if true.

I just wanted to point out that the above email message from the
"marketing-python" list refers to python 2.2 being installed on HP
machines.

But the OPs question was "What is python 2.1.1?"

So maybe the python 2.1 installation is from a different source?

-- 
alan kennedy
-----------------------------------------------------
check http headers here: http://xhaus.com/headers
email alan:              http://xhaus.com/mailto/alan



From jjl at pobox.com  Wed Jul 30 14:27:50 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 30 Jul 2003 19:27:50 +0100
Subject: Misuse of <tab>
References: <3f27f0e3$1@news.broadpark.no> <vifvcvqdd4mf4@news.supernews.com> <RbTVa.8214$gU6.967766@twister.nyc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <87brvbx42h.fsf@pobox.com>

max <max at nospam.com> writes:
[...]
> The problem with spaces is that you need to do 5 times the work of a
> tab to get decent-looking indentation :).

Get an editor.  :-)


John



From Sibylle.Koczian at Bibliothek.Uni-Augsburg.de  Thu Jul 10 08:56:35 2003
From: Sibylle.Koczian at Bibliothek.Uni-Augsburg.de (Koczian)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 14:56:35 +0200
Subject: Calling Excel module functions from python [repost]
In-Reply-To: <d3c9c04.0307100142.a49fd81@posting.google.com>
References: <d3c9c04.0307100142.a49fd81@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bejgq8$9j8$1@rzmux02.rz.uni-augsburg.de>

Mark Carter schrieb:

> In Excel, I have a module named modCSV which has a function named
> SaveSheet(), which I want to be able to call from python. How do I do
> it?
> 
> I've opened the workbook containing the module, and executed the code:
> 
> from win32com.client import Dispatch
> xlApp = Dispatch("Excel.Application")
> xlApp.Visible = 1
> wb = xlApp.ActiveWorkbook
> wbc = wb.VBProject.VBComponents("modCSV")
> wbc.SaveSheet()
> 
> but I get the error message:
> 
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "C:\Documents and Settings\mcarter\My
> Documents\cvs-tree\project\2195\code\temp.py", line 17, in ?
>     wbc.SaveSheet()
>   File "C:\Python22\lib\site-packages\win32com\client\dynamic.py",
> line 454, in __getattr__
>     raise AttributeError, "%s.%s" % (self._username_, attr)
> AttributeError: <unknown>.SaveSheet
> 
> It apparently likes the line wbc = ... , but then hates
> wbc.SaveSheet(). *Sigh*

Try

xlApp.Run('SaveSheet')

That works with ordinary Excel macros, but I don't know about 
VBProject.VBComponents. Possibly this might work:

wbc.Run('SaveSheet').

HTH,
Koczian

-- 
Dr. Sibylle Koczian
Universitaetsbibliothek, Abt. Naturwiss.
D-86135 Augsburg

Tel.: (0821) 598-2400, Fax : (0821) 598-2410
e-mail : Sibylle.Koczian at Bibliothek.Uni-Augsburg.DE




From ray at rays-web.com  Sat Jul 19 21:20:20 2003
From: ray at rays-web.com (Ray Smith)
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 01:20:20 GMT
Subject: Python vs ...
In-Reply-To: <slrnbhjob9.tp.bignose-hates-spam@rose.localdomain.fake>
References: <3f19dad1@news.syd.ip.net.au> <slrnbhjob9.tp.bignose-hates-spam@rose.localdomain.fake>
Message-ID: <3f19ee33@news.syd.ip.net.au>

Ben Finney wrote:
> On Sat, 19 Jul 2003 23:57:40 GMT, Ray Smith wrote:
> 
>>when I program a tricky well written piece of code
> 
> 
> When I see a piece of code that can be described as "tricky", I think
> "Gee I bet this is a source of bugs".
> 
> Make your code obvious, please.  Trickiness is what I want in a mystery
> novel or a puzzle, not in code to be read by humans.

"Tricky" was probably a bad word ... "difficult" might be a better word.

So to say it again ...


'''
when I program a difficult problem "well" in another language I say to 
myself ...

"Gee I was clever"

when I program a difficult problem "well" in Python I say to myself ...

"Gee Python is Clever"
'''

Regards,

Ray Smith




From adalke at mindspring.com  Mon Jul 21 13:50:13 2003
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 11:50:13 -0600
Subject: Python voting demo discussion
References: <KRMSa.112426$Io.9623657@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <bfh8rt$3v$1@slb9.atl.mindspring.net>

Alan Dechert:
> Ian Bicking and Andrew Dalke did say they thought Python should be fine
for
> the demo but I didn't get much detail about why we should prefer it over
> some of the other possibilities:  HTML, XML, Perl, Java, PHP, C, C++, C#,
C,
> etc.

Just posted a suggestion in that thread, but figured I would elaborate on it
here.

While Python can do what you want, you'll have to work through some
sort of graphics toolkit to get the screen placement and interface code.
The standard GUI toolkits (wxPython, Qt, SWING, etc.) are designed
for a windowing system with a platform-appropriate look&feel.  As such,
they likely won't give you the sort of control you want over the system,
and you'll end up writing your own.

If you're going to do that, you should look at tools designed for that level
of control.  There are two categories I know of.  One is designed for games,
and the other for multimedia presentations.  For Python, the best bet is
pygame, which uses a lower-level toolkit.  There are likely bindings for
this
toolkit for other languages.  However, in general I've found Python to be
a surperb language and think it would be the easiest development language
for this task.

The other option is to look for multimedia or prototyping systems.  The
best example is Flash, which is often used for animations in web pages.
These can be very fancy with all sorts of novel controls, and the Flash
company (Macromedia) has their software to make it easy to develop
these applications, though I've never used them.  You would also need
to verify you can print from their tools...

So if you want a demo, or you want to experiment with different
interfaces, you might consider using Flash or related tools and only
later, once you're ready for the next development stage, do you
worry about the actual mplementation language used for deployment.

                    Andrew
                    dalke at dalkescientific.com





From sjmachin at lexicon.net  Mon Jul 14 19:54:40 2003
From: sjmachin at lexicon.net (John Machin)
Date: 14 Jul 2003 16:54:40 -0700
Subject: Can't install csv parser
References: <MPG.197b80c54e88b1489896a6@news.in.comcast.giganews.com> <3f11ba56$0$6532$afc38c87@sisyphus.news.be.easynet.net> <m3r84tivkn.fsf@ferret.object-craft.com.au> <MPG.197c88885d4542c09896a8@news.in.comcast.giganews.com>
Message-ID: <c76ff6fc.0307141554.e915b0b@posting.google.com>

BogAl <bogal2 at comcast.net> wrote in message news:<MPG.197c88885d4542c09896a8 at news.in.comcast.giganews.com>...
> Thanks for the reply, Dave....
> 
> > Try putting the .pyd in C:\Python22\Lib\site-packages
> 
> Unfortunately, I'm still getting the error message.
> 

I would suggest that you 
(1) Remove all your copies of csv.pyd
(2) Install the csv module properly by following the instructions on
Dave's website (i.e. briefly, you unpack the distribution into a
directory, and then run setup.py)
(3) If you still have a problem, post a message that shows
(a) what version of Windows you are running
(b) what version of Python
(c) your windows path 
(d) your Python path (import sys; print sys.path)
(e) what you get when you run Python (at the DOS command line!!) with
-v and try to import the csv module
(f) what the MS depends utility says about
C:\Python22\Lib\site-packages\csv.pyd

Another thought: I found I had a python22.dll (dated Oct 2002, must be
from Python 2.2.2) in my c:\WINNT\system32 directory and one dated May
2003 (must be from Python 2.2.3) in my c:\Python22 directory ... don't
know how that happened; puzzling ... I've killed off the older one.
You might like to search python22.dll *AND* msvcrt.dll and ensure that
you are using the latest.

HTH,
John



From bokr at oz.net  Thu Jul 10 23:48:12 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 11 Jul 2003 03:48:12 GMT
Subject: Python Global Constant
References: <mailman.1057737013.30246.python-list@python.org> <3F0BE68B.893EB7E5@engcorp.com> <bein3o$5n3mj$1@ID-169208.news.dfncis.de> <mailman.1057816935.4908.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <belc1s$ntt$0@216.39.172.122>

On Thu, 10 Jul 2003 02:01:47 -0400, Jp Calderone <exarkun at twistedmatrix.com> wrote:

>On Thu, Jul 10, 2003 at 04:06:55PM +1200, Greg Ewing (using news.cis.dfn.de) wrote:
>> Peter Hansen wrote:
>> >Just do what you did above, without the "const" modifier, which
>> >doesn't exist and is not really needed in Python.
>> 
>> If you *really* insist on preventing anyone from changing
>> them, it is possible, with some hackery. Here's one way
>> that works:
>> 
>> #######################################################
>> #
>> #  MyModule.py
>> #
>> 
>> _constants = ['PI', 'FortyTwo']
>> 
>> PI = 3.1415
>> FortyTwo = 42
>> 
>> import types
>> 
>> class _ConstModule(types.ModuleType):
>> 
>>   __slots__ = []
>> 
>>   def __setattr__(self, name, value):
>>     if name in self.__dict__['_constants']:
>>       raise ValueError("%s is read-only" % name)
>>     self.__dict__[name] = value
>> 
>> del types
>> import MyModule
>> MyModule.__class__ = _ConstModule
>> 
>
>    >>> import MyModule
>    >>> del MyModule._constants[:]
>    >>> MyModule.PI = 'Cherry, please'
>    >>> MyModule.PI
>    'Cherry, please'
>
>  Jp
>
Ok, this one is a little more resistant, I think (though I'm not sure how much more ;-):
====< makeconst.py >=============================================================
import os, sys
def makeconst(m):
    modulename = m.__name__
    mpath = m.__file__
    sfront = [
    'def forclosure(m):',
    '    dictinclosure = {'
    ]
    sback = [
    '    }',
    '    class %s(object):'% modulename,
    '        def __getattribute__(self, name):',
    '            if name=="__dict__": return dictinclosure.copy()', # no mods ;-)
    '            return dictinclosure[name]',
    '        def __setattr__(self,name,val):',
    '            raise TypeError, "module %s is read-only"'%modulename,
    '    return vars()["%s"]()'%modulename,
    ''
    ]
    if mpath.endswith('.pyc'): mpath = mpath[:-1]
    if not mpath.endswith('.py'):
        raise ValueError, 'Not .py or .pyc based module: %s of %r'%(modulename, mpath)
    for line in file(mpath):
        line = line.strip()
        if not line or line[0]=='#' or not line[0].isupper(): continue
        lh,rh = map(str.strip, line.split('=',1))
        sfront.append(
    '       %r:m.%s,'% (lh,lh) # get actual bindings from pre-constified module
        )
    exec '\n'.join(sfront+sback)
    constmod = vars()['forclosure'](m)
    sys.modules[modulename] = constmod
    return constmod

def importconst(name): return makeconst(__import__(name))
=================================================================================

and we'll import and "make constant" the module:

====< MyConsts.py >====================================
#######################################################
#
#  MyConsts.py
#

PI = 3.1415
FortyTwo = 42
=======================================================
 >>> import makeconst
 >>> MyConsts = makeconst.importconst('MyConsts')
 >>> MyConsts.PI
 3.1415000000000002
 >>> dir(MyConsts)
 ['FortyTwo', 'PI']
 >>> MyConsts.FortyTwo
 42
 >>> MyConsts.FortyTwo = 43
 Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
   File "<string>", line 11, in __setattr__
 TypeError: module MyConsts is read-only
 >>> setattr(MyConsts,'foo',123)
 Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
   File "<string>", line 11, in __setattr__
 TypeError: module MyConsts is read-only
 >>> MyConsts.__dict__
 {'PI': 3.1415000000000002, 'FortyTwo': 42}
 >>> MyConsts.__dict__['PI'] = 'Cherry?'
 >>> MyConsts.__dict__
 {'PI': 3.1415000000000002, 'FortyTwo': 42}
 >>> vars(MyConsts)
 {'PI': 3.1415000000000002, 'FortyTwo': 42}
 >>> MyConsts.PI
 3.1415000000000002


 >>> object.__getattribute__(MyConsts,'__dict__')
 {}
 >>> object.__getattribute__(MyConsts,'__class__')
 <class 'makeconst.MyConsts'>
 >>> object.__getattribute__(MyConsts,'__class__').__dict__
 <dict-proxy object at 0x007DD6F0>
 >>> object.__getattribute__(MyConsts,'__class__').__dict__.keys()
 ['__module__', '__dict__', '__getattribute__', '__weakref__', '__setattr__', '__doc__']
 >>> object.__getattribute__(MyConsts,'PI')
 Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
 AttributeError: 'MyConsts' object has no attribute 'PI'

Well, we can force one that will come back that way
 >>> object.__setattr__(MyConsts,'PI','Cherry ;-)')

Not this way:
 >>> MyConsts.PI
 3.1415000000000002

But this way:
 >>> object.__getattribute__(MyConsts,'PI')
 'Cherry ;-)'

We can see it in the instance dict that was created:
 >>> object.__getattribute__(MyConsts,'__dict__')
 {'PI': 'Cherry ;-)'}

But not via the object normally:
 >>> dir(MyConsts)
 ['FortyTwo', 'PI']
 >>> MyConsts.__dict__
 {'PI': 3.1415000000000002, 'FortyTwo': 42}
 >>> getattr(MyConsts,'__dict__')
 {'PI': 3.1415000000000002, 'FortyTwo': 42}

So you can force the instance to get a __dict__ with whatever apparent attribute, but you
can't make it apparent via normal attribute access, so it wouldn't affect modules importing
and using MyConsts normally:

 >>> MyConsts.PI
 3.1415000000000002

Well, some you can flesh out the special attributes/methods, but you get the drift.
We could also use a metaclass to fake the name exactly (when __name__ is returned ;-)
and in __repr__ and __str__.

If you import MyConsts after makeconst does its thing, I'm not sure how to sabotage the result of
the expression MyConsts.PI for other modules that have imported it, short of rebinding methods.
Since the data is not in a class variable or class dict, I you'd have to go after the closure cell.
I can find that (I think that's it below, though I'd have to print id(dictinclosure) to be sure),
e.g.,

 >>> object.__getattribute__(MyConsts,'__class__').__getattribute__.im_func.func_closure[0]
 <cell at 0x007D8FB0: dict object at 0x007DD5E0>

but how do you get at the dict in the cell? I don't guess it should be allowed, even if it's possible.

Otherwise you'll just have to mess with sys.modules similarly to get around it, I think, or accept
that you just have constant bindings (maybe to mutable objects though ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From srijit at yahoo.com  Tue Jul 29 10:35:41 2003
From: srijit at yahoo.com (srijit at yahoo.com)
Date: 29 Jul 2003 07:35:41 -0700
Subject: Portability of Python (VS.Net, Java etc.)
References: <mailman.1058934395.4215.python-list@python.org> <bflf99$aqd$1@slb9.atl.mindspring.net> <mailman.1058989177.1549.python-list@python.org> <bfo14i$ibh$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net> <221d8dbe.0307272345.63503afd@posting.google.com> <bg309p$p2b$1@news.hccnet.nl>
Message-ID: <221d8dbe.0307290635.fea912d@posting.google.com>

Hello,
Thanks for your good response. This reply can be part of "Re: Python
and VS.Net" thread but I would prefer to put it under a different
subject.

I was just wondering that if Python has to be compatible to MS.NET
does it mean
that

1) Python should be re-written C# like Jython has been written in Java
?

But my bigger concern is about the term "Portability". More than OS,
it looks like frameworks/VMs (.NET and Java ) are getting more
dominant today.

So for middleware like Python (though Python script runs on its own
VM) should be compatible with both the frameworks in order to remain
practically portable.

This appears practically impossible unless we use lowerst common
denominator of both the frameworks.

So just compiling Python on GNU C for Windows instead of VC++ may not
be enough. Moreover Google may also change in future (I have no idea
now what may change!)

I guess this topic would have been discussed before. If so, it will be
nice member(s) can send me the links.

Regards,
Srijit

anton at vredegoor.doge.nl (Anton Vredegoor) wrote in message news:<bg309p$p2b$1 at news.hccnet.nl>...
> Me too, but this question should probably be asked in the Python
> developers mailing list, which according to my analysis above should
> be turned into a newsgroup as soon as possible. Also they'd better
> answer that they're going to migrate to mingw-compiling soon :-)
>



From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Wed Jul  9 15:08:45 2003
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 14:08:45 -0500
Subject: Deleting specific characters from a string
In-Reply-To: <5ab0af73.0307091044.254f5aab@posting.google.com> (MatthewS@HeyAnita.com's
 message of "9 Jul 2003 11:44:02 -0700")
References: <begfb3$7j6$1@online.de>
	<5ab0af73.0307091044.254f5aab@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <m2ptkjzfeq.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

>>>>> "Matt" == Matt Shomphe <MatthewS at HeyAnita.com> writes:

    Matt> Maybe a new method should be added to the str class, called
    Matt> "remove".  It would take a list of characters and remove
    Matt> them from the string:

you can use string translate for this, which is shorter and faster
than using the loop.

class rstr(str):
    _allchars = "".join([chr(x) for x in range(256)])
    def remove(self, chars):
        return self.translate(self._allchars, chars)

me = rstr('John Hunter')
print me.remove('ohn')

Also, you don't need to define a separate __init__, since you are nor
overloading the str default.

JDH




From ianb at colorstudy.com  Sat Jul  5 01:15:51 2003
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: 05 Jul 2003 00:15:51 -0500
Subject: Least used builtins?
In-Reply-To: <jykB/kKkXMaL092yn@gnosis.cx>         
References: <b03e80d.0307040620.2158fd41@posting.google.com>
	 <ad052e5c.0307040927.4bfdff07@posting.google.com>
	 <mailman.1057341968.10073.python-list@python.org>
	 <czdB/kKkXkPA092yn@gnosis.cx>
	 <mailman.1057351809.21438.python-list@python.org>
	 <jykB/kKkXMaL092yn@gnosis.cx>         
Message-ID: <1057382150.516.63.camel@lothlorien>

On Fri, 2003-07-04 at 22:57, Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters wrote:
> I don't think any of these are a big deal.  But I see several
> motivations for moving a number of the builtins that Bicking disagrees
> on.  The breakage could be made small to non-existent by including a
> bunch of such things in a file like startup.py that gets loaded
> automatically, but that can be changed in principle.
> 
> One general point is that getting rid of builtins can make a minimal
> Python footprint smaller (and load times slightly faster probably).  For
> embedded systems, handhelds, etc. reducing the required memory usage is
> a good thing.

It would be more correct to say that by having these in separate
modules, it is easier to find code that uses them so it can be adapted
to this minimal environment.  Actually removing many of those builtins
would create a version of Python that would not run most of the Python
code out there -- moving things into different modules doesn't change
that, it just means that "core Python" (i.e., the subset of Python's
standard library used by 95% of significant code) is split among more
modules.  Of course, some stuff in builtins is obviously cruft, but not
a huge amount of it.

> A second issue is the PyPy project.  I think it dovetails with that
> project to move everything that is a likely candidate for
> reimplementation *in* Python into non-core modules.  Doing this is not
> strictly a requirement for PyPy, but it fits the style of thinking.

The premise of PyPy is that *everything* is a likely candidate for
reimplementation in Python.  It shouldn't matter if it's a builtin.

> A third matter is my support for the function decorator/mutator idea.
> classmethod, staticmethod, and property are nice method mutators, but as
> a number of people pointed out in that thread, they are not the only
> such modifiers one can imagine.  Moreover, you can implement these in
> Python (I incorrectly once doubted this), so spinning them out of core
> makes sense from a #2 perspective.

Certainly more operations are possible, useful, and to be encouraged. 
But it's also reasonable for a small set of those to become idiomatic
and widely understood -- classmethod, staticmethod, and property are all
general enough to apply.

> Yet a fourth matter is that I think it would be slightly easier to teach
> Python to beginners if __builtins__ did not include a number of
> functions that were extremely difficult to explain to novices... and
> that are really only of use to fairly expert Pythoneers.  I find that
> callable, classmethod, id, intern, and a number of others fall in this
> category.  My thinking is that anything meant for experts should need to
> get imported by specific request.

I disagree.  There's nothing saying you have to describe everything in
__builtins__ -- using that module as a teaching outline is surely a bad
idea.  You should feel entirely free to ignore many of those builtin
functions as you like -- certainly some (like intern) *should* be
ignored for as long as possible, ostracized even :)

> |[super] Again, highly idiomatic, programmers should be discouraged from
> |using this name for anything else
> 
> Indeed.  But non-advanced programmer won't be using it for its builtin
> meaning either.  Just look at all the threads by quite sophisticated
> Pythonistas trying to clarify exactly what super() really does.  You
> cannot even understand this function without first getting C3
> linearization (and even then, figuring out what the different calling
> forms all do is still tricky).

That's a problem with super, not with its place in builtins.  Super is
kind of a sad retort to a perceived omission in the language...

> |zip, like enumerate, is idiomatic -- importing it does not imply
> |anything about your code, that it comes from itertools lends little
> |insight into what zip does.
> 
> Actually, I don't think a separate zip/izip does any good, nor
> range/xrange.  But those are more historical accidents.  I wouldn't mind
> seeing itertools have the same kind of status that sys does now.  What's
> the last script you wrote that didn't import sys?  You don't technically
> need it... until you want to do something with input, output or
> arguments :-).

That describes most of my modules!  I seldom import sys -- I probably
import os much more often, but certainly not half of the time.  Sys is a
good example of what would worry me about a module refactoring -- sys
just feels like a dumping ground for everything that doesn't quite
deserve to be in builtins, but doesn't really feel like it's anything
else either.  There's no cohesion, but it's considered hidden because
it's in a module of its own.

  Ian






From sismex01 at hebmex.com  Fri Jul  4 10:04:15 2003
From: sismex01 at hebmex.com (sismex01 at hebmex.com)
Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 09:04:15 -0500 
Subject: Python is a gem, you need to keep pushing it ....
Message-ID: <F7DB8D13DB61D511B6FF00B0D0F06233054C3F7C@mail.hebmex.com>

> From: Peter Hansen [mailto:peter at engcorp.com] 
> Sent: Viernes, 04 de Julio de 2003 07:42 a.m.
> 
> delphiro wrote:
> > 
> [attribution removed... don't do that!]
> > > Python *is* great but lets not pretend that its a good 
> > > fit for every problem.
> > 
> > I doubt that (unless you develop hardware drivers).
> 
> Are you saying that you think Python _is_ a good fit
> for every problem, excluding only hardware drivers?
> 
> -Peter
>

Seems like he is; in my experience Python has been flexible
enough to fit any problem I've tossed at it.

-gustavo

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From me at here.com  Fri Jul  4 09:06:30 2003
From: me at here.com (Ton K.)
Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 15:06:30 +0200
Subject: bug in Tkinter? invalid literal for int() line 1035
Message-ID: <newscache$6z3ihh$1ph$1@cache3.nc3a.nato.int>

Folks,

I get subject when binding <Button-1> to a listbox.
The value for h is '??' which triggers the error.
I'm running Python 2.2.2 from SuSE.
Please help
TK




From pecora at anvil.nrl.navy.mil  Tue Jul  1 11:19:59 2003
From: pecora at anvil.nrl.navy.mil (Louis M. Pecora)
Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 11:19:59 -0400
Subject: (Numeric) should -7 % 5 = -2 ?
References: <87k7b6cf3d.fsf_-_@schedar.com> <mailman.1056836805.17229.python-list@python.org> <290620030817191641%pecora@anvil.nrl.navy.mil> <3g32gvcolis4485956egtc35akm6lh3uq5@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <010720031119590501%pecora@anvil.nrl.navy.mil>

In article <3g32gvcolis4485956egtc35akm6lh3uq5 at 4ax.com>, Tim Roberts
<timr at probo.com> wrote:

> >Hmmm...  "remainder" makes sense.  But "%" is mod, right.  IIRC from my
> >abstract algebra days (only 30 yrs ago :-) ) The "X mod n" function
> >maps onto the postive integers from 0 to n-1.  So sounds like numeric
> >contradicts the math texts.  Not good since it's a math module.
> 
> That's a bit harsh.  

You may be right.  I got to work and checked my old Abstract Algebra
book.  The defintion is,

We write  a=b mod m if m divides (a-b) (i.e. no remeinder).  

The defintion does not say how to compute the mod, rather it is an
expression of a relationship between a and b.  Hence, writing -2=-7 mod
5 appears to be OK.  

The "uniqueness" comes in when we recogize that mod m defines an
equivalence relation on the integers and so for a given m every integer
falls into a unique class (or subset of integers).  The set of m
subsets is equivalent to the positive integers  0 to m-1.  

So it appears that the translation between math and computer science is
not as clear as I thought.  In math (well, number theory) mod is a
relation, not an operation.  In computer science it is an operation.

Waddayathink?

-- 
Lou Pecora
  - My views are my own.



From alanmk at hotmail.com  Mon Jul 14 11:36:55 2003
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 16:36:55 +0100
Subject: Confusing automated translators.
References: <37d6f77c.0307130932.1e3adf0d@posting.google.com>
		<3f11ac74$0$49101$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
		<ad052e5c.0307131718.4903430d@posting.google.com>
		<3F12808B.E53193B8@hotmail.com> <mailman.1058189001.18190.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3F12CE17.76A0A5@hotmail.com>

Francois,

>The "Time flies" is a classic.  I heard it a few dozens of years ago. :-)
>Another similar classic, for French, is "Le pilote ferme la porte.".

I presume that is a play on "pilote ferme", as in "experimental farm",
as well as the obvious meaning "the pilot/driver closes the
door/gate". Is this meaning betrayed by the "le" matching "pilote",
rather than the "la" it should have for "ferme". Or have I missed the
point completely (I don't consider myself a strong french speaker)?

Joyeux Le Quatorze!

-- 
alan kennedy
-----------------------------------------------------
check http headers here: http://xhaus.com/headers
email alan:              http://xhaus.com/mailto/alan



From gsmatthew at ozemail.com.au  Fri Jul 18 08:10:31 2003
From: gsmatthew at ozemail.com.au (Graeme Matthew)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 22:10:31 +1000
Subject: Threading Pool Event()
Message-ID: <0tRRa.212$vD1.8077@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au>

Hi all

I just cannot seem to find any documentation that shows an example of using
the factory method Event() in threads. I have a thread pool and if there are
no jobs in a Queue I want them to wait for something to be inserted. When a
job is inserted I want to send an Event, the first thread that picks it up
runs with the job the rest wait for another insert Event.

I have been looking at some C, c++ implementations and some use a continious
loop within a thread that polls the queue then if one is found pops it from
the queue and runs with it.

Problem when threads are dormant is it not better having the main thread
(i.e process) sending a signal rather than 10 threads polling surely this is
cpu intensive ??

any helps or references on Event() is much appreciated

many thanks

Graeme





From irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl  Thu Jul 24 18:34:47 2003
From: irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 00:34:47 +0200
Subject: CGI "download" prompt?
In-Reply-To: <77dd287a.0307240632.40c6c309@posting.google.com>
References: <77dd287a.0307240632.40c6c309@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3f205f06$0$49115$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

Daniel Orner wrote:

> Unfortunately,
> the files that I'm trying to give the user are HTML files. How do I
> make it so the browser prompts to save the file rather than just
> display it in the browser?

Try setting the Content-Type: header to something other than text/html,
such as:   application/octet-stream

I think that any browser that respects the mime type will prompt to save
a file with this mime-type.

YMMV, especially with IE, because that thing tends to try to act
'smart' and looks at the file extension to determine
what to do with the file. It will likely just display it....

--Irmen




From rtw at freenet.REMOVE.co.uk  Fri Jul 11 13:51:30 2003
From: rtw at freenet.REMOVE.co.uk (Rob Williscroft)
Date: 11 Jul 2003 17:51:30 GMT
Subject: Windows XP - Environment variable - Unicode
References: <3f0e77fc@epflnews.epfl.ch>
Message-ID: <Xns93B5BFB6DA924ukcoREMOVEfreenetrtw@195.129.110.131>

sebastien.hugues wrote in news:3f0e77fc at epflnews.epfl.ch:

> Hi
> 
> I would like to retrieve the application data directory path of the 
> logged user on
> windows XP. To achieve this goal i use the environment variable
> APPDATA.
> 
> The logged user has this name: s?bastien. The second character is not
> an ascii one and when i try to encode the path that contains this name
> in utf-8,
> i got this error:
> 
> Ascii error: index not in range (128)
> 
> I would like to first decode this string and then re-encode it in
> utf-8, but i am not able to find out what encoding is used when i
> make: 
> 
> appdata = os.environ ['APPDATA']
> 
> Any ideas ?
> 

I don't know if it will help but:

>>> import win32com.client
>>> shell = win32com.client.Dispatch("WScript.Shell")
>>> env = shell.GetEnvironment("VOLATILE")

>>> j = []
>>> for i in env:
...     j.append(i)
...     
>>> j
[u'LOGONSERVER=\\\\COMPUTERNAME', u'APPDATA=C:\\Documents and Settings
\\username\\Application Data']
>>> 

Note the leading u, which I don't get with:

>>> import os
>>> os.environ["APPDATA"]
'C:\\Documents and Settings\\username\\Application Data'

Also note that APPDATA should also be in 
>>> env = shell.GetEnvironment("PROCESS")

HTH

Rob.
-- 
http://www.victim-prime.dsl.pipex.com/



From bignose-hates-spam at and-benfinney-does-too.id.au  Thu Jul 24 01:26:15 2003
From: bignose-hates-spam at and-benfinney-does-too.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: 24 Jul 2003 15:16:15 +0950
Subject: file.close()
References: <edITa.131868$Ph3.17333@sccrnsc04> <3F1F5297.15D768EF@alcyone.com> <slrnbhukr8.13c.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local> <p5JTa.32154$7O.2024@nwrdny01.gnilink.net> <j0KTa.133645$H17.46459@sccrnsc02>
Message-ID: <slrnbhusl6.13c.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>

On Thu, 24 Jul 2003 05:20:15 GMT, Bryan wrote:
>>     filelist = []
>>     try:
>>         filelist.append(open(filename[0]))
>>         filelist.append(open(filename[1]))
>>         ...
>>         do_something(filelist)
>>     finally:
>>         for f in filelist:
>>             f.close()
> 
> erik, carl... thanks... this is exactly what i was looking for

The only substantial difference I see between this and what you
originally posted, is that there is only one 'try...finally' block for
all the file open/close operations.  Is this what you were wanting
clarified?

-- 
 \          "I spent all my money on a FAX machine. Now I can only FAX |
  `\                                       collect."  -- Steven Wright |
_o__)                                                                  |
http://bignose.squidly.org/ 9CFE12B0 791A4267 887F520C B7AC2E51 BD41714B



From johnroth at ameritech.net  Thu Jul  3 10:21:53 2003
From: johnroth at ameritech.net (John Roth)
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 10:21:53 -0400
Subject: function overloading
References: <pan.2003.07.01.19.42.06.202399@webone.com.au> <Xns93AC619ABDB55duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <vg8ets5ripe59@news.supernews.com>

"Duncan Booth" <duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk> wrote in message
news:Xns93AC619ABDB55duncanrcpcouk at 127.0.0.1...
> "Simon Burton" <simonb at webone.com.au> wrote in
> news:pan.2003.07.01.19.42.06.202399 at webone.com.au:
>
> > class Im:
> >   def __init__(self,x,xx=None):
> >     if xx is not None:
> >       w,h = x,xx
> >       im = Image.new("I",(w,h))
> >     elif type(x)==str:
> >       filename = x
> >       im = Image.open(filename)
> >     else:
> >       im = x
> >     self.im = im
>
> I would probably do it like this:
>
> class Im(object):
>     def __init__(self,im):
>         self.im = im
>
>     def newFromFile(cls, fileName):
>         im = Image.open(filename)
>         return cls(im)
>     newFromFile = classmethod(newFromFile)
>
>     def newBlank(cls, width=640, height=480):
>         im = Image.new("I",(width,height))
>         return cls(im)
>     newBlank = classmethod(newBlank)
>
> Overloading is a bad idea, explicit is better than implicit.
>
> Using class methods as alternate constructors lets you have meaningful
> parameter names, defaults for each variant (if you want them), and
> docstrings (here left as an exercise for the reader).

I keep forgetting about class methods, probably because they're
new and I don't use Java enough.

John Roth
>
>
> --
> Duncan Booth
duncan at rcp.co.uk
> int month(char
*p){return(124864/((p[0]+p[1]-p[2]&0x1f)+1)%12)["\5\x8\3"
> "\6\7\xb\1\x9\xa\2\0\4"];} // Who said my code was obscure?





From vze4rx4y at verizon.net  Sat Jul 12 02:56:52 2003
From: vze4rx4y at verizon.net (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 06:56:52 GMT
Subject: Python Mystery Theatre -- Episode 1:  Exceptions
Message-ID: <UiOPa.3259$Y92.1224@nwrdny01.gnilink.net>

For your amusement and edification, I'm working on a
series of Python puzzles designed to highlight areas of
the language known only to those who have read the
docs more than once.

Each of the following sections contains a code snippet
that someone, somewhere might find a little mysterious.

Your goal is to sleuth through the code, identify what
was expected versus what really happened, and to
explain it briefly so that others will find it blindingly
obvious.

The mysteries are not difficult, but I would suprised
if most readers didn't learn something new along the way.

Of course, if you are a potential bot, then these mysteries
will be very difficult because all you will see is the code
operating as designed, implemented, documented and tested.

When you post your results, I would be interested in
knowing whether you already knew what was going
on or whether you had to resort to:

* reading other posts
* googling
* experimenting
* or worse, re-reading the docs


Raymond Hettinger


ACT I ---------------------------------------
>>> s = list('abc')
>>> try:
...     result = s['a']
... except IndexError, TypeError:
...     print 'Not found'
...

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<pyshell#11>", line 2, in -toplevel-
    result = s['a']
TypeError: list indices must be integers

ACT II --------------------------------------------
>>> class MyMistake(Exception):
...     pass

>>> try:
...     raise MyMistake, 'try, try again'
... except MyMistake, msg:
...     print type(msg)
...

<type 'instance'>

ACT III --------------------------------------------
>>> class Prohibited(Exception):
...     def __init__(self):
...         print 'This class of should never get initialized'
...
>>> raise Prohibited()
This class of should never get initialized

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<pyshell#40>", line 1, in -toplevel-
    raise Prohibited()
Prohibited: <unprintable instance object>
>>> raise Prohibited
This class of should never get initialized

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<pyshell#41>", line 1, in -toplevel-
    raise Prohibited
Prohibited: <unprintable instance object>

ACT IV -----------------------------------------------
>>> module = 'Root'
>>> try:
...     raise module + 'Error'
... except 'LeafError':
...     print 'Need leaves'
... except 'RootError':
...     print 'Need soil'
... except:
...     print 'Not sure what is needed'
...

Not sure what is needed

ACT V -----------------------------------------------
>>> try:
...     raise KeyError('Cannot find key')
... except LookupError, msg:
...     print 'Lookup:', msg
... except OverflowError, msg:
...     print 'Overflow:', msg
... except KeyError, msg:
...     print 'Key:', msg


Lookup: 'Cannot find key'





From max at alcyone.com  Sun Jul 20 05:39:07 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 02:39:07 -0700
Subject: object as a reserved keyword
References: <vtnkhvoqcet2bgmeidae1st46m7q9sr1p3@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3F1A633B.98456C76@alcyone.com>

Lawrence Oluyede wrote:

> Does it worth to make "object" keyword a reserved one?
> I'd like to avoid oddities like this:

It's no different from overriding any of the builtins with a
non-standard value:

>>> int = float
>>> float = str
>>> str = lambda x: none
>>> str = lambda x: None
>>> file = 'elif'      

If someone wants to be abusive, he can.  The idea behind Python is that
everyone will behave like adults, so there's little need to worry about
these kinds of things.

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ Do we really want to go to Mars / Do we really want to try
\__/  Cassandra Wilson



From a.schmolck at gmx.net  Sat Jul 26 16:08:54 2003
From: a.schmolck at gmx.net (Alexander Schmolck)
Date: 26 Jul 2003 21:08:54 +0100
Subject: Static typing
References: <LvdUa.905$DU.696@fe12.atl2.webusenet.com>
Message-ID: <yfssmotnj8p.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk>

"Michael Muller" <mmuller at enduden.spam.filter.com> writes:

> Is there currently any plan to introduce static typing in any future
> version of Python?  (I'm not entirely sure that "static typing" is the right
> term: what I'm talking about is the declaration of types for variables,
> parameters and function return values).
> 
> I know there was a "types SIG" which introduced several proposals, but it
> expired quite a while ago, and I was wondering whether whether some
> consensus has been reached on the subject or if it has just been shelved
> indefinitely.

I think the traits package hasn't been mentioned so far:

http://www.scipy.org/site_content/traits/Traits_Users_Guide.htm

'as



From duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk  Mon Jul 21 10:00:26 2003
From: duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk (Duncan Booth)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 14:00:26 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Python scripting with Paint Shop Pro 8.0
References: <kl3lhvgh5iillo5g9jvff92qkc8i2022nm@4ax.com> <bfe6bo$cdr$1@panix2.panix.com> <ucvlhvgj9nm4op4u2rqrkif7n04d520gbo@4ax.com> <87d6g4wzu7.fsf@pobox.com> <bpnmhvg7m3sf3rjphodfvgomtt3jg640hn@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <Xns93BF9868E285Bduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

Marc Wilson <marc at cleopatra.co.uk> wrote in
news:bpnmhvg7m3sf3rjphodfvgomtt3jg640hn at 4ax.com: 

> The documentation is, er, sketchy.  The manual refers you to a
> non-existant folder on the CD, and the Python content is referred to
> as the "Python Scripting Engine", which suggests it may not be a full
> implementation.  If I have to install Python separately, so be it. 
> I'll look for the .pyd file and see if there a suspiciously-named
> executable there as well. 
> 
The documentation is available as a separate download (for those people who 
didn't get their copy on CD, such as the evaluation copy). 4798 files, but 
having looked at them I wouldn't say they were the best documentation ever.

-- 
Duncan Booth                                             duncan at rcp.co.uk
int month(char *p){return(124864/((p[0]+p[1]-p[2]&0x1f)+1)%12)["\5\x8\3"
"\6\7\xb\1\x9\xa\2\0\4"];} // Who said my code was obscure?



From staschuk at telusplanet.net  Tue Jul  1 11:22:03 2003
From: staschuk at telusplanet.net (Steven Taschuk)
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 09:22:03 -0600
Subject: Suggesting for overloading the assign operator
In-Reply-To: <6f03c4a5.0306301931.3f15fbb7@posting.google.com>; from rimbalaya@yahoo.com on Mon, Jun 30, 2003 at 08:31:47PM -0700
References: <6f03c4a5.0306301931.3f15fbb7@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20030701092203.A941@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>

Quoth Rim:
  [...]
> The idea is to separate the value assignment from the type assignment,
> by introducing a new operator, let's say the ':=' operator.
> 
> '=' remains what it is, assigns type and value at the same time
> ':=' assigns only the value

That's a peculiar way of speaking.  '=' does not assign type and
value to a variable; it assigns an object to a name.

  [...]
> In reality, := would just coerce the return type of the RHS of := to
> the type of the variable on the LHS of the :=, preserving the value(s)
> as best as it can.

"The type of the variable" is not a meaningful phrase in Python:
names do not have types; objects do.  I assume you meant "the type
of the object the name on the lhs is presently bound to".

Coerce how?  Do you want a new __magicmethod__ for this operation?

Would ':=' mutate the object presently bound to the lhs name
create a new object and rebind the lhs name?  To be concrete:

    a = whatever
    b = a
    a := 7
    assert a is b

Should that assertion succeed or fail, in general?  (Note that it
fails in general if the ':=' is replaced with '=', even if
whatever == 7.)

Would ':=' support chaining?  That is, would
    a := b := <some expression>
work?  If so, would it be equivalent to
    _tmp = <some expression>
    a := _tmp
    b := _tmp
(except for the namespace pollution), to match the semantics of
chained '='?  (Note that the assignments happen left to right.)

Would use of a name on the lhs of a ':=' cause that name to be
considered local, as such use with '=' does?

> If the type of the variable was still undefined, ':=' would behave
> like '='. It might create confusion in future code, but does not break
> old code.

Yikes.  Why not raise NameError if the name on the lhs of ':=' is
not yet bound?

> I think it would be a nice feature to have. Comments?

Your example
    a = Currency(6)
    a := 7
is highly strange.  (Even if we ignore the question of *which*
currency is being represented; the example could easily be
restated with, say, FixedPoint or Rational or some such.)

How is it that your users are happy to write Currency(...) when
first assigning to a name, but not happy doing so when assigning
later?

Do they not understand that '=' binds a name to an object?  Are
they C programmers who think of assignment as copying a value from
one location in memory to another?  Do they think of the first
assignment as a type declaration for the name?  (If any of these
three are true, they need to be better educated -- they're all
fundamental misconceptions about Python.)

Do they need a language with syntactic support for Currency
objects?

-- 
Steven Taschuk                            staschuk at telusplanet.net
"Our analysis begins with two outrageous benchmarks."
  -- "Implementation strategies for continuations", Clinger et al.




From news at yebu.de  Mon Jul 21 04:19:28 2003
From: news at yebu.de (Karl Scalet)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 10:19:28 +0200
Subject: (mini-)ANN: Document for Python LaTeX setup
In-Reply-To: <20030720122018.09823.00000328@mb-m11.aol.com>
References: <bfa30t$ctqne$2@ID-139865.news.uni-berlin.de> <20030720122018.09823.00000328@mb-m11.aol.com>
Message-ID: <bfg7mg$efrk2$2@ID-141451.news.uni-berlin.de>

Chatralias schrieb:
> TYPOS 
> I only found one.
> 
>>From: Dave Kuhlman dkuhlman at rexx.com
>>I've written a document ...
> 
> 
> 
> 2.1 Step 1 -- Install the Python Source 
> You will the source distribution for Python...
>             ^
>            need
           <---?
(using a monospace font:-)

> 
> Thanks Dave, from your target audience (dare I speak for us all) 
> for the Great job. This is just what I needed.
> 
> Ray St.Marie
> RASTM2 at aol.com
> 
> 




From mickey at tm.informatik.uni-frankfurt.de  Thu Jul 10 16:06:54 2003
From: mickey at tm.informatik.uni-frankfurt.de (Michael 'Mickey' Lauer)
Date: 10 Jul 2003 20:06:54 GMT
Subject: Problems Compiling PyQt3.7
References: <beiudf$bvg$1@atlantis.news.tpi.pl>
Message-ID: <bekh0u$699d4$1@ID-192111.news.uni-berlin.de>

mazu <mazu at go2.pl> wrote:
>  I get errors about QAssistantClient while compiling PyQt 3.7, on my
>   debian woody with Qt 3.1.2. Here is compiler message:
> 
> cd qt && /usr/bin/make -f Makefile
> make[1]: Entering directory `/Downloads/KDE - libs/PyQt-x11-gpl-3.7/qt'
> g++ -c -pipe -w -O2 -D_REENTRANT -fPIC  -DSIP_MAKE_MODULE_DLL 
> -DQT_NO_DEBUG -DQT_THREAD_SUPPORT -I/usr/share/qt3/mkspecs/default -I. -I.
> -I/usr/include/python2.1 -I/usr/share/qt3/include -o qtcmodule.o 
> qtcmodule.cpp
> In file included from qtcmodule.cpp:37:
> sip/qassistantclient.sip:37: qassistantclient.h: No such file or directory
> In file included from qtcmodule.cpp:37:
> sipqtQAssistantClient.h:42: parse error before `{'
> sipqtQAssistantClient.h:45: destructors must be member functions
> sipqtQAssistantClient.h:49: non-member function `property(const char *)' 
> cannot have `const' method qualifier
> sipqtQAssistantClient.h:82: parse error before `private'
> sipqtQAssistantClient.h:84: syntax error before `&'
> sipqtQAssistantClient.h:87: parse error before `}'
> sipqtQAssistantClient.h:89: syntax error before `*'
> make[1]: *** [qtcmodule.o] Error 1
> make[1]: Leaving directory `/Downloads/KDE - libs/PyQt-x11-gpl-3.7/qt'
> make: *** [sub-qt] Error 2
> 
> Anybody know any solution to this problem? I've got libqt3-mt, 
> libqt3-mt-dev, and Qt 3.1.2already installed.

Seems your distribution is missing files. Download the Qt-3.1.2 source and
copy the missing files into $QTDIR/include.

:M:



From sybrenUSE at YOURthirdtower.imagination.com  Wed Jul 30 17:40:01 2003
From: sybrenUSE at YOURthirdtower.imagination.com (Sybren Stuvel)
Date: 30 Jul 2003 21:40:01 GMT
Subject: Python Jabber client for the Zaurus
Message-ID: <slrnbigelo.aad.sybrenUSE@sybren.thirdtower.com>

Hi there!

I'm going on a holiday, and to leave something behind to remember me
by, I've released Discuss Jabber 0.0.1. It's a jabber client written
in Python/Qt for the Sharp Zaurus. It is still lacking a lot of
features, but if you already have a jabber account somewhere, you can
use this baby to chat on your Zaurus.

Feel free to take a look at the code and improve it where you see fit.
Send me an email with the diff, and I'll put your changes into the
next version of Discuss Jabber! It's about time the Zaurus gets a good
IM program!

I'll continue developing in about three weeks, when I'm back from
Slovenija.

Sybren
-- 
The problem with the world is stupidity. Not saying there should be a
capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the
safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself? 



From no at spam.invalid  Wed Jul  2 14:47:45 2003
From: no at spam.invalid (Russell E. Owen)
Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 11:47:45 -0700
Subject: Tkinter Image Button Bug
References: <mailman.1057155723.30289.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bdv9ci$1pmi$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>

In article <mailman.1057155723.30289.python-list at python.org>,
 Erhan Ekici <erhan at uzem.itu.edu.tr> wrote:

>There is a problem in my code.I think it is Tkinter bug....
>it works but doesn't display image. Instead of 
>image, only a square with color=#dddddd comes on screen.

I think you are running into a common Tkinter pitfall (it is an 
intentional design decision, but I do not recall the argument for it): 
you need to explicitly maintain references to images; putting them in a 
Tkinter widget is not sufficient.

In your code "icon" is garbage-collected when the function exits because 
using it to set the icon of the label b does not increment its reference 
count.

I am almost certain it suffices to assign b._iconref = icon (_iconref 
being an attribute that the Label b is not likely to already have).

I've appended your code suitably modified. I've not tested it.

-- Russell

>from Tkinter import *
>
>main=Tk()
>
>def toolbar(master):
>    toolbar= Frame(master)
>    pfile ="C:\\Python22\\samples\\ftp\\images\\help.gif"
>    icon = PhotoImage(file=pfile)
>    b=Label(toolbar, image=icon, width=10)
      b._iconref = icon
>    b.config(background="#dddddd", bd=1, relief=FLAT)
>    b.pack(side=LEFT, padx=2, pady=2)
>    #toolbar.config(background="#ffffff", bd=2, relief=GROOVE)
>    toolbar.pack(side=TOP, expand=YES, fill=X)
>       
>
>toolbar(main)
>main.mainloop()



From intentionally at blank.co.uk  Sun Jul 13 22:35:18 2003
From: intentionally at blank.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 03:35:18 +0100
Subject: anything like C++ references?
References: <13t0hvsb7idh0g6ac3upe5k0qd6flc17ah@4ax.com> <pan.2003.07.13.10.58.11.376531@127.0.0.1> <lq-cnWRG9rRuMIyiXTWJjQ@comcast.com> <b8c3hvsesjoumiboobml3nsnajtha99mp1@4ax.com> <1058126738.28456.424.camel@lothlorien> <mailman.1058131341.21911.python-list@python.org> <roy-51CDBA.21361413072003@reader1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <d854hvgqm2p4h0hs7kmhlqi0rc7qnlbn8c@4ax.com>

On Sun, 13 Jul 2003 21:36:14 -0400, Roy Smith <roy at panix.com> wrote:

>Jack Diederich <jack at performancedrivers.com> wrote:
>> I was a long time C++ guy and my a-ha moment was when I realized that the
>> GoF's "Design Patterns" were not all universal -- some are C++ specific.
>> Trying to force Python semantics into a C++ world view will leave you feeling
>> empty every time.
>
>Thank you for writing this, it makes me feel better!
>
>I was having exactly this discussion just a couple of days ago with our 
>local hard-core C++ guy (who also poo-poo's Python, even though he's 
>never actually tried it).  I made exactly the point Jack made -- that 
>the Design Pattern book is rather C++-centric, and some of it just 
>doesn't tranlate into Python very well.

I thought that book uses Java (and UML)?

I agree with the point, though. A pattern is supposed to be a standard
way to implement an abstraction, but the best way to implement some
abstraction varies from language to language.




From mwh at python.net  Mon Jul 14 12:58:05 2003
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 16:58:05 GMT
Subject: Python Mystery Theatre -- Episode 1:  Exceptions
References: <UiOPa.3259$Y92.1224@nwrdny01.gnilink.net> <3F0FC088.3C56EDEA@alcyone.com> <bep6l2$a1g$1@panix3.panix.com> <87y8z34d3d.fsf@pobox.com> <3F10959B.17327C19@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <7h3adbhnjb7.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

Erik Max Francis <max at alcyone.com> writes:

> "John J. Lee" wrote:
> 
> > Perhaps Erik was wondering, as I was, where that "<unprintable
> > instance
> > object>" came from.
> 
> Indeed.  I was quite aware of what was happening, just not clear on why
> his particular Python session said something that mine didn't.

It's probably a traceback.print_exc vs. the builtin traceback printing
stuff thing?

>>> class C(Exception):
...  def __init__(self):
...   pass
... 
>>> raise C
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
__main__.C>>> import traceback
>>> traceback.print_last()
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
C: <unprintable instance object>

Seems so.

Cheers,
M.

-- 
  Any form of evilness that can be detected without *too* much effort
  is worth it...  I have no idea what kind of evil we're looking for
  here or how to detect is, so I can't answer yes or no.
                                       -- Guido Van Rossum, python-dev



From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Tue Jul 29 19:02:37 2003
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 29 Jul 2003 19:02:37 -0400
Subject: Snake bath
Message-ID: <bg6ued$g28$1@panix2.panix.com>

>From a thread on alt.poly:
http://www.mindspring.com/~darkhawk/snakebath.jpg
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

This is Python.  We don't care much about theory, except where it intersects 
with useful practice.  --Aahz



From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Tue Jul 15 10:49:08 2003
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 15 Jul 2003 10:49:08 -0400
Subject: Regarding Thread pooling
References: <mailman.1058267003.16337.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bf1494$j3b$1@panix2.panix.com>

In article <mailman.1058267003.16337.python-list at python.org>,
sujata <sujatay at cybage.com> wrote:
>
>        I have a query regarding threads.
>Is it possible to create thread pools in python.i.e. create threads and =
>then retrieve the memory allocated to it so that the same threads can be =
>used over and over again rather than creating new threads each time i =
>wish to execute functions many times. If its possible plz do let me know =
>how to do so.
>Can one have control over memory this way?

Certainly.  What you need to do is set up a while loop in each thread
that picks up work from a Queue.  One of the work types contains a flag
that tells the loop to exit.  (There are other ways, but that's the
simplest and most straightforward.)
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"Not everything in life has a clue in front of it...."  --JMS



From member32992 at dbforums.com  Thu Jul 10 16:23:32 2003
From: member32992 at dbforums.com (pygeek)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 20:23:32 +0000
Subject: no python mode for my gvim
Message-ID: <3097082.1057868612@dbforums.com>

Hello everyone.
I have some problems regarding gvim and Python.
I have gvim 6.2 running under WinXP, with Python mode
feature included during compilation [+python/dyn].
Whenever I try to use gvim's python commands,
the following error messages would appear:

"E370: Could not load library python21.dll
 E263: Sorry, this command is disabled, the Python library could not
       be loaded."

I have Python 2.2.2 running and what concerns me is that,
I only have the file 'python22.dll' in C:\Windows\System32 and not
'python21.dll' as
required by gvim. How do i go about loading the .dll file for gvim?

Please advise. Thank you.

--Daniel D.--

--
Posted via http://dbforums.com



From jainpadam1 at rediffmail.com  Wed Jul  2 06:55:37 2003
From: jainpadam1 at rediffmail.com (Padam Jain)
Date: 2 Jul 2003 03:55:37 -0700
Subject: ASP
Message-ID: <b3116c54.0307020255.369599ef@posting.google.com>

Q1.How do u generated GUID's in Asp Pages
Q2.How do u pass x-y coordinates to ASP Pages when u click on an
Image.
Q3.How do u call a VBScript function in an Anchor Tag.
Q4.How do u access Object Instance or a variable in another Frame.

       Please kindly answer this question,its very urgent.I am stuck
up here very badly.



From jeske at chat.net  Sat Jul 12 18:45:59 2003
From: jeske at chat.net (David Jeske)
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 15:45:59 -0700
Subject: Passing pointer to array from C to Python..and modifying same array in python?
In-Reply-To: <3607e8e4.0307111306.16ab4c6a@posting.google.com>
References: <3607e8e4.0307111306.16ab4c6a@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20030712154559.A6639@mozart>

On Fri, Jul 11, 2003 at 02:06:10PM -0700, JW wrote:
> I have an array (presumably 'large') that is mallocced in a C
> function and its values are initialized in that same function.  I
> would like to pass just the pointer to the beginning of the array
> from this C function to a Pyton function.  Then the python method
> can individually access and MODIFY individual members of the array.
> After the call to the python method, the C function will see any
> changes to the array.

> Can this be done?

Of course this can be done, and there are a number of ways to do
it. Based on your implication that there are many more values put in
the array by the C code than will be accessed (or changed) by the
Python code, this method might make sense:

1) have the C function construct a new python object (i.e. the "wrapper")

2) put the real pointer to the C array into the wrapper as instance data

3) register two methods for the object "get()" and "set()", impelemented
   in C as Python exported functions.

   The get method should take self and the array index as paramaters and
   return the values in that slot of the array

   The set method should take self, an index, and the values as paramaters
   and it should modify the real "C-version" of the array.

4) when you execute your python function, it will be given this
   "wrapper" object as a paramater. It can then call into the methods in 
   the wrapper object to access and change the C-array "in-place" without
   converting it at all. Each new value which is set into the array
   is converted on the fly.

5) If you like, you can convert get() and set() to __get__() and __set__
   so you can use array access syntax to access the array from python.


-- 
David Jeske (N9LCA) + http://www.chat.net/~jeske/ + jeske at chat.net




From leej at citymutual.com  Mon Jul 21 06:47:57 2003
From: leej at citymutual.com (L. A. Jackson)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 11:47:57 +0100
Subject: Python voting demo discussion
References: <KRMSa.112426$Io.9623657@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <5penhv47e8plbm07dd615s5e0kj8hsfu7o@4ax.com>

When it comes to language selection I'm of the opinion that it  should
be based on the skillset and expertise available to you. If youre
proposing python and have the human resources available with python as
a skillset  then go for it. If not then look closely at what
skillset/s are available and tailor language selection around that.

I will STRONGLY advise that you consider using XML  (and if necessary
get or train people with the necessary expertise ) since there are
already several specifications out there ( e.g. vXML, eML) which have
looked at the requirements for voting systems. These are open
specifications and although they tend to be complex, they do massively
increase the value and portability of any data which you capture.

In addition XML has the strength of being easily transformable to
other formats via XSLT. e.g. With some design and planning you should
be able to use the same underlying data/format for output to web,
screen or printer. My initial thoughts are that you should look at SVG
for the control over onscreen output that you require and XSL for
printed documentation. Python is  a suitable "glue" language for
this...see earlier comments however.

Sounds like an interesting project btw. Hope it has good auditing
features ;)

Good Luck

Lee

On Mon, 21 Jul 2003 07:44:42 GMT, "Alan Dechert"
<adechert at earthlink.net> wrote:

>Thanks for the interesting discussion yesterday afternoon about the voting
>software development project I am working on putting together.
>
>Almost all of the discussion had nothing to do with my question, but that's
>okay.  Actually, I knew it would probably go that was but I could not very
>well say, "don't ask me all those other questions."  It was reasonable for
>you to ask.
>
>Ian Bicking and Andrew Dalke did say they thought Python should be fine for
>the demo but I didn't get much detail about why we should prefer it over
>some of the other possibilities:  HTML, XML, Perl, Java, PHP, C, C++, C#, C,
>etc.
>
>If you have anything to add regarding this specific issue, I would be
>interested to hear it.
>
>Thanks again for your time.
>
>-- Alan Dechert
>
>




From donn at u.washington.edu  Mon Jul  7 12:53:22 2003
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 09:53:22 -0700
Subject: print attitude
References: <mailman.1057355899.31256.python-list@python.org> <3F0669B5.679FB505@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <donn-6838FE.09532207072003@nntp1.u.washington.edu>

In article <3F0669B5.679FB505 at alcyone.com>,
 Erik Max Francis <max at alcyone.com> wrote:
...
> Printing an object prints its str, but simply specifying it as the value
> of an expression in the interactive interpreter prints the repr.  What
> you're seeing is that both the str _and_ the repr of builtin container
> types print the _repr_ of their elements.  I consider this something of
> a wart, but the rationalization is that it might be confusing if the str
> were used when using (say) list.__str__ since it might contain spaces or
> commas itself.
> 
> >>> [' ', 'a, b', 'c', ' ']
> [' ', 'a, b', 'c', ' ']
> 
> If that were the str of the elements, it might be confusing:
> 
> >>> '[%s]' % ', '.join(map(str, [' ', 'a, b', 'c', ' ']))
> '[ , a, b, c,  ]'
> 
> I see the reasoning, but I'm not sure the benefit of the decision
> outweighs the confusion it constantly calls.  (This, along with standard
> floating point equality questions, are probably the most frequently
> asked questions about Python.)

Speaking of floats, I believe lists containing floats are the main
case where people really resist seeing the sense in this - but it's
easier to call that a wart in float's repr, since they're as bugged
wherever they see it and in my opinion rightly so.

I think some time back, Steven Taschuk proposed to submit a rewrite
of the str & repr documentation, and if that goes well it should be
more or less explain the behavior of repr(list) without having to
mention it specifically.  Then that would make this kind of question
an opportunity to clear up a whole area of confusion.  Questions
about a thing don't immediately indicate that it's ill conceived -
I guess you have to consider how many questions there would be about
the alternative.

   Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu



From jepler at unpythonic.net  Sun Jul 13 12:18:50 2003
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 11:18:50 -0500
Subject: removing spaces from front and end of filenames
In-Reply-To: <93f5c5e9.0307130744.7e9d8377@posting.google.com>
References: <beqdf0$m2q$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <3F10BABB.D548961B@alcyone.com> <93f5c5e9.0307130744.7e9d8377@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20030713161850.GB32319@unpythonic.net>

On Sun, Jul 13, 2003 at 08:44:05AM -0700, hokiegal99 wrote:
> Erik Max Francis <max at alcyone.com> wrote in message news:<3F10BABB.D548961B at alcyone.com>...
> > hokiegal99 wrote:
> > 
> > > This script works as I expect, except for the last section. I want the
> > > last section to actually remove all spaces from the front and/or end
> > > of
> > > filenames. For example, a file that was named "  test  " would be
> > > renamed "test" (the 2 spaces before and after the filename removed).
> > > Any
> > > suggestions on how to do this?
> > 
> > That's what the .strip method, which is what you're using, does.  If
> > it's not working for you you're doing something else wrong.
> 
> for root, dirs, files in os.walk('/home/rbt/scripts'):
>      for file in files:
>          fname = (file)
>          fname = fname.strip( )
> print fname
> 
> When I print fname, it prints the filenames w/o spaces (a file named "
> test " looks like "test"), but when I ls the actual files in the
> directory they still contain spaces at both ends. That's what I don't
> understand. It seems that .strip is ready to remove the spaces, but
> that it needs one more step to actually do so. Any ideas?

Surely you need to actually rename the file:
    for root, dirs, files in os.walk('/home/rbt/scripts'):
        for name in files:
            newname = name.strip()
            if newname != name: os.rename(name, newname)

Jeff




From pinard at iro.umontreal.ca  Wed Jul  2 06:05:54 2003
From: pinard at iro.umontreal.ca (=?iso-8859-1?q?Fran=E7ois_Pinard?=)
Date: 02 Jul 2003 06:05:54 -0400
Subject: arbitrary long integer aritmetics
In-Reply-To: <bdtv1s$22dm$1@otis.netspace.net.au>
References: <bdtv1s$22dm$1@otis.netspace.net.au>
Message-ID: <oqof0dxmyl.fsf@titan.progiciels-bpi.ca>

[Leo]

> is there a python module around allow using arbitrary long integers?

Hi.  No need for a module, this is all builtin in Python.

On older version of Pythons, you needed an explicit `long(INTEGER)' to get
into the realm of long integers, or else, an explicit `L' suffix to an
integer constant.  On recent Pythons, `a*b' should automatically produce a
long result even if both `a' and `b' are simple (short) integers, without
any kind of clue that the result will be long.

-- 
Fran?ois Pinard   http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/~pinard




From sjmachin at lexicon.net  Mon Jul 14 20:03:42 2003
From: sjmachin at lexicon.net (John Machin)
Date: 14 Jul 2003 17:03:42 -0700
Subject: Can't install csv parser
References: <MPG.197b80c54e88b1489896a6@news.in.comcast.giganews.com> <3f11ba56$0$6532$afc38c87@sisyphus.news.be.easynet.net> <MPG.197b8c26ad33253e9896a7@news.in.comcast.giganews.com>
Message-ID: <c76ff6fc.0307141603.4810bba0@posting.google.com>

BogAl <bogal2 at comcast.net> wrote in message news:<MPG.197b8c26ad33253e9896a7 at news.in.comcast.giganews.com>...
> Thanks for the reply, Bernard....
> 
> > Running the MS "depends" utility on
> > csv.pyd reveals that it only needs python22.dll, msvcrt.dll
> > and kernel32.dll. Are these all on your PATH?
> > 
> 
> I think they are now....
> "...C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM\python22.dll;C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM\KERNEL32.dll;\C:
> \WINDOWS\SYSTEM\MSVCRT.dll;..."

I think not; path should contain a list of *directories*, not *files*
-- Windows is silently ignoring the non-existence of directories
called "C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM\python22.dll" etc.

Rephrasing Bernard's question: do you have those 3 files in
directories that are listed in your system path?

After a normal Python installation, you would expect to have
c:\Python22 in your path, and Python22.dll in that directory.



From vze4rx4y at verizon.net  Thu Jul 31 20:12:02 2003
From: vze4rx4y at verizon.net (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Fri, 01 Aug 2003 00:12:02 GMT
Subject: What does "*list" mean?
References: <fb0466d1.0307310929.3c8eb2a3@posting.google.com> <bgbkmf$gn9$05$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <mfiWa.308$W%3.168@nwrdny01.gnilink.net>

"Diez B. Roggisch" <deets_noospaam at web.de> wrote in message
news:bgbkmf$gn9$05$1 at news.t-online.com...
> Greg Smethells wrote:
>
> > What exactly does "*values" mean in the following code? Is this a
> > pointer to a PyList? Why can I not find good documentation on this any
> > where? I must be blind:
>
> Just two days ago I had the same qustion, and I got this as answer from
> Raymond Hettinger:
>
> http://www.python.org/dev/doc/devel/ref/calls.html
>
> Regarding your C question: I didn't do such a thing, but *list only makes
> the items of list be used as distinct arguments - so its more a matter of
> the function signature you're calling. I'm sure you'll find something about
> variable list arguments somewhere - that means that you function looks like
> this:
>
> def foo(arg1, arg2, *args):

Hmm, it sounds like the *args calling format
needs to be added to the tutorial.


Raymond Hettinger





From andrew-pythonlist at puzzling.org  Thu Jul 17 01:10:36 2003
From: andrew-pythonlist at puzzling.org (Andrew Bennetts)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 15:10:36 +1000
Subject: Regular expression help
In-Reply-To: <LApRa.5420$Qe5.2628@nwrddc03.gnilink.net>
References: <LApRa.5420$Qe5.2628@nwrddc03.gnilink.net>
Message-ID: <20030717051036.GB7618@frobozz>

On Thu, Jul 17, 2003 at 04:27:23AM +0000, David Lees wrote:
> I forget how to find multiple instances of stuff between tags using 
> regular expressions.  Specifically I want to find all the text between a 
                                               ^^^^^^^^

How about re.findall?

E.g.:

    >>> re.findall('BEGIN(.*?)END', 'BEGIN foo END   BEGIN bar END') 
    [' foo ', ' bar ']

-Andrew.





From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Tue Jul 29 10:21:39 2003
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 29 Jul 2003 10:21:39 -0400
Subject: variable assignment in "while" loop
References: <slrnbicoqq.6gh.sybrenUSE@sybren.thirdtower.com>
Message-ID: <bg5vtj$68i$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <slrnbicoqq.6gh.sybrenUSE at sybren.thirdtower.com>,
Sybren Stuvel  <sybrenUSE at YOURthirdtower.imagination.com> wrote:
>
>Is it possible to use an assignment in a while-loop? I'd like to do
>something like "loop while there is still something to be read, and if
>there is, put it in this variable". I've been a C programmer since I
>was 14, so a construct like:
>
>while info = mydbcursor.fetchone():
>	print "Information: "+str(info)
>
>comes to mind. Unfortunately, this doesn't work. Is there a similar
>construct in python?

Peter usually gives a good answer, but this time there's a better
answer:

    def fetch_iter(cursor):
        info = True
        while info:
            info = cursor.fetchone()
            yield info

    for info in fetch_iter(mydbcursor):
        print "Information:" + str(info)

Generally speaking, any time you want to do assignment as part of a
while loop, you really want to convert it a for loop.

BTW, DO NOT USE TABS in Python programs.  You WILL regret it.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

This is Python.  We don't care much about theory, except where it intersects 
with useful practice.  --Aahz



From bokr at oz.net  Thu Jul 17 11:31:29 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 17 Jul 2003 15:31:29 GMT
Subject: Recursion in compile()
References: <781faf41.0307161629.6295618b@posting.google.com> <mailman.1058409301.23691.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bf6fgh$ga7$0@216.39.172.122>

On Wed, 16 Jul 2003 20:13:24 -0600, Steven Taschuk <staschuk at telusplanet.net> wrote:

>Quoth Narendra C. Tulpule:
>>   is there any way to allow recusrion in compile()? Something like:
>> 
>> src_code = 'def fact(n):\n\tif n <= 1:\n\t\treturn 1\n\telse:' + \
>>            '\n\t\treturn n * fact(n-1)\n\nprint fact(12)\n'
>> cobj = compile(src_code, 'myfile', 'exec')
>> eval(cobj)
>
>This works fine for me -- it prints 479001600 as expected, on both
>2.2.2 and 2.3b1.  What is the problem you're seeing?
>

It works for me too. But the OP is saying "recursion *in* compile()" [my emphasis and spelling],
and the recursion of fact doesn't involve recursion of compiler calls (at least not in the
fact code). Maybe he is after something else?

BTW, (to the OP), using triple quotes makes things more readable sometimes:

 >>> src_code = """\
 ... def fact(n):
 ...     if n <= 1:
 ...         return 1
 ...     else:
 ...         return n * fact(n-1)
 ...
 ... print fact(12)
 ... """
 >>> cobj = compile(src_code, 'myfile', 'exec')
 >>> eval(cobj)
 479001600

(For yet another readability improvement, leaving out the backslash would make
a blank line that's not in the OP's string, but wouldn't hurt the compilation).

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From intentionally at blank.co.uk  Mon Jul 14 18:58:28 2003
From: intentionally at blank.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 23:58:28 +0100
Subject: anything like C++ references?
References: <000301c348c7$3c501980$21795418@dell1700> <iqm2hvs77lhe1m71v9b579070khbf0uv0a@4ax.com> <berqqd$ad5$1@panix3.panix.com> <brs2hv8edfv0d1fch9mha8otuulajnkh0g@4ax.com> <bes0ps$l6$1@panix3.panix.com> <qi13hv4s21i8mtr2e600jumm54hqs7tppu@4ax.com> <mailman.1058125699.26133.python-list@python.org> <sag3hv4vf884ed7ouu5cv8ofnopp9j1t12@4ax.com> <f0f51c80.0307132003.264b6894@posting.google.com> <7dc4hvslh7a8fk9p6cvsfqa1c8d44rmmnv@4ax.com> <m3y8z1ps6f.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <39d6hv8s045s74mr1ortiah4h1b61ahubf@4ax.com>

On 14 Jul 2003 07:56:40 +0200, martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. L?wis)
wrote:

>Stephen Horne <intentionally at blank.co.uk> writes:
>
>> Funny thing. When I use algebra, the variables I define don't end up
>> referring to different values, functions or whatever unless I
>> explicitly redefine them. When I write a definition on one piece of
>> paper, the things I wrote earlier on another sheet don't change.
>
>That, typically, is because you don't have any mutating operations in
>your formulae. All functions you use are side-effect-free. If you
>translated the sheets of paper literally into Python, the formulae
>would work the way you expect them to work.

Funny. Algorithms in mathematics have been around much longer than
Python or even electronic computers.




From fredrik at pythonware.com  Thu Jul 10 01:58:34 2003
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 07:58:34 +0200
Subject: Odd scrollbar behavior in IDLE v1.0b2 (Bug?)
References: <5ab0af73.0307091709.2baeca43@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bej02n$2ba$1@main.gmane.org>

Matt Shomphe wrote:

> If I use IDLE and have a block of "wraparound" text (text that runs on
> to the next line without having an explicit line break) then use the
> scrollbar on the right-hand side to navigate (either by dragging on
> the bar,using the scroll-wheel on the mouse, or clicking on the
> directional arrows), the grey, moveable part of the scrollbar changes
> size.

that's how Tk's Text widget works; for performance reasons, the
size of the scrollbar thumb is based on how many lines you see in
the window, not the number of pixels they occupy.

</F>







From exarkun at intarweb.us  Mon Jul 21 19:27:32 2003
From: exarkun at intarweb.us (Jp Calderone)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 19:27:32 -0400
Subject: Automatically filling in answers to interactive shell command questions
In-Reply-To: <d365ef4b.0307211423.27ba6d86@posting.google.com>
References: <d365ef4b.0307211423.27ba6d86@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20030721232732.GA14856@intarweb.us>

On Mon, Jul 21, 2003 at 03:23:25PM -0700, Ted Weatherly wrote:
> Is it possible to use python to automatically fill in the answers to
> interactive shell command questions?  For example, I am using a shell
> command addperson that behaves as follows:
> 
>   > addperson
>   First Name: Ted
>   Birthday: 12/08/1977
>   Height: 6'0"
>   Location: San Francisco, CA
>   > 
> 
> I am prompted for "First Name: " and I enter "Ted".  I am prompted for
> "Birthday: " and I enter "12/08/1977".  Imagine doing this for 100
> people or more...it gets tiresome.
> 
> Assuming I can't change the addperson command to read data from a
> file, is there any way to use python to fill in the data for the
> expected questions?  Perhaps a different language would be better?
> 

  Ahh, but addperson already reads data from a file!  stdin!  Have you
tried:

    cat answer_file | addperson

  or even

    addperson < answer_file

  or, to keep it Python related,

    >>> import os
    >>> outf = os.popen('addperson', 'w')
    >>> inf = file('answer_file', 'r')
    >>> outf.write(inf.read())
    >>> inf.close()
    >>> outf.close()

  Jp

-- 
"If you find a neighbor in need, you're responsible for serving that
neighbor in need, you're responsible for loving a neighbor just like you'd
like to love yourself." -- George W. Bush, Sept. 16, 2002




From michael at foord.net  Fri Jul 18 03:48:45 2003
From: michael at foord.net (Fuzzyman)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 08:48:45 +0100
Subject: Python on the PocketPC
Message-ID: <de9fhv4c87atlujk9bnfhsm8njdfcccgce@4ax.com>

I've just installed the version of Python 2.2 on my XDA..... and it
works great :-)

As I'm quite a newbie and have only written simple text-file parsing
scripts its hardly a *rigorous* test of Python - but my scritps worked
*without* modification - cool.

*However* the XDA has only 32 mb of onboard storageand operating
memory.......... and Python is currently occupying 8 meg of that
onboard the device - this makes playing quake harder :-)

Anyone know if python will cope with me shifting all its libraries etc
onto a storage card ??

Fuzzyman
---
Everyone has talent. What is rare is the courage to follow talent to the dark place where it leads. -Erica Jong
Ambition is a poor excuse for not having sense enough to be lazy. -Milan Kundera 

http://www.voidspace.org.uk 
Where Headspace Meets Cyberspace
Cyberpunk and Science Resource Site
Exploring the worlds of Psychology, Spirituality, Science and Computing
--
http://www.fuchsiashockz.co.uk
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/void-shockz
http://www.learnlandrover.com



From guido at python.org  Fri Jul 11 15:13:43 2003
From: guido at python.org (Guido van Rossum)
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 15:13:43 -0400
Subject: Help Support Python
Message-ID: <200307111913.h6BJDhi03789@pcp02138704pcs.reston01.va.comcast.net>

I'm pleased to announce that the Python Software Foundation (PSF) is now
accepting donations from individuals and companies interested in
supporting our mission to improve the Python programming language.

The PSF holds the intellectual property rights for Python and is working
towards building a program to fund future Python development.  Your
donation will make a real difference in the quality of Python's future.

For US individuals:  The PSF is recognized as a 501(c)(3) charity, which
means that you can deduct the full amount of your donation from your 
taxes.  There is no minimum donation amount, so please help even if you
can only afford a small contribution.

For companies:  The PSF is also seeking additional companies interested in
becoming sponsors.  For more information, please email psf at python.org.

About the PSF:  http://python.org/psf/
To donate:      http://python.org/psf/donations.html

You can donate using PayPal or by writing a check.

Please pass this message along to anyone who may be able to help us.

Thank You!

Guido van Rossum,
President of the Python Software Foundation

--Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)




From sfb at alysseum.com  Wed Jul  9 11:23:04 2003
From: sfb at alysseum.com (Simon Bayling)
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 15:23:04 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: QUESTION
References: <mailman.1057759874.18441.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <Xns93B3A7263F3D1k23vzqpmre@194.106.32.13>

Python is a popular programming language. The program "c:\python2.1
\Python.exe" is required to run applications written in Python, so it 
most likely was installed by something else.

Check c:\python21\INSTALL.LOG if there is one, it should tell you the 
date and time it was installed, if that's any help.

Regarding whether you can safely delete it or not...
That depends on where it came from. If it is required by another program, 
that program will break if Python suddenly disappears.

In itself it is not going to be causing problems, and no-one here is 
going to classify it as 'unecessary junk'! ;)

I suggest you go to a tutorial and start learning Python :)
If that doesn't interest you, try renaming the folder and using your PC 
for a while... if nothing you want to keep suddenly breaks then you can 
most likely safely remove it.

Cheers,
Simon.

Matt5883 at aol.com wrote in
news:mailman.1057759874.18441.python-list at python.org: 

> 
> What is python 2.1.1?  How did it get on my computer? Is it a
> necessary program?  Can I safely delete it/remove it?  If so how?  I
> do not recall downloading it.  Does it come bundled with some other
> program? Maybe one of my kids did it.  I do not see enough information
> on your site to make these determinations.  I have a Compaq 5184 with
> OEM Win 98 installed...I do not ever recall seeing "python" in the
> programs.  I have been having alot of problems with my computer lately
> and I am removing unecessary "junk" Thanks,
> Matt
 




From paul_rudin at scientia.com  Wed Jul  2 04:32:58 2003
From: paul_rudin at scientia.com (Paul Rudin)
Date: 02 Jul 2003 09:32:58 +0100
Subject: dcom client from non-windows python
References: <ur85a8we8.fsf@scientia.com> <B9wMa.9909$BM.3068463@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <uptkt9vlx.fsf@scientia.com>

>>>>> "drs" == drs  <drs at ecp.cc> writes:


    > My guess is you would be more successful using pyro for the
    > distributed stuff. 

Ya, but that doesn't allow you to talk to, for example, excel running
on a windows box directly. 


    > my other guess is that python com simply wraps windows stuff,
    > and that reimplementing windows on linux would take a while.

I'm not sure how much reimplementing windows is needed? There are
other non-python tools that achieve this kind of thing - see e.g.
<http://www.linar.com/> - in theory you just need to know how to drive
the dcom network protocol.



From ianb at colorstudy.com  Thu Jul 10 20:13:28 2003
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: 10 Jul 2003 19:13:28 -0500
Subject: Sample Web application
In-Reply-To: <slrnbgrtto.16p.jon+usenet@snowy.squish.net>
References: <mailman.1057574470.1750.python-list@python.org>
	 <kmolgv4mp12o71ocion7ra0m2s9fcrqjdk@4ax.com>
	 <begc78$rui$1@mawar.singnet.com.sg> <VLicnfImRJLPkpGiRTvUqA@speakeasy.net>
	 <behc69$o3t$1@news1.wdf.sap-ag.de>
	 <mailman.1057772055.6056.python-list@python.org>
	 <tYqcnZji2bzS5ZGiRTvUqg@speakeasy.net>
	 <mailman.1057801994.30346.python-list@python.org>
	 <u_ucnTmf55NP4pCiRTvUqA@speakeasy.net>
	 <mailman.1057862838.7508.python-list@python.org>
	 <slrnbgrtto.16p.jon+usenet@snowy.squish.net>
Message-ID: <1057882408.9504.1344.camel@lothlorien>

On Thu, 2003-07-10 at 18:33, Jon Ribbens wrote:
> In article <mailman.1057862838.7508.python-list at python.org>, Ian Bicking wrote:
> > Well, it wasn't Quixote I was talking about.  It was more things like
> > jonpy (with wt templates, specifically)
> 
> Well, the way 'wt' works requires you to put 2 lines of mod_rewrite
> rules in your .htaccess or httpd.conf, there's no getting around that.
> I don't see it as a big hardship though. It's kind've fundamental to
> they way 'wt' templates work and 2 lines of work in advance means a
> lot of work saving later on.

FWIW, I spent a lot of time trying to get those two lines to work,
ultimately failing (it was a while ago, so I'm afraid I can't expand). 
It's entirely possible I was trying too hard and making it more
complicated than it was... but configuring Apache in general is a pain,
because diagnostics for that sort of configuration are largely
nonexistent, you simply get incorrect behavior.  Or maybe I got Apache
right, but the file layout wrong.  Whichever.

My problems with FastCGI have been largely the same.  It shouldn't be
complicated, but somehow manages to be so anyway.  The multitudes of
FastCGI-reimplementors can't all be wrong, can they? ;)

Always-reluctantly-a-sysadmin'ly y'rs,
  Ian






From jjl at pobox.com  Mon Jul  7 09:14:32 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 07 Jul 2003 14:14:32 +0100
Subject: Collective memory
References: <mailman.1057083728.8224.python-list@python.org> <vg88va53uha8e@corp.supernews.com> <hff5eb.e9h.ln@escape.shannon.net> <3f06af11$0$49113$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl> <3f071e0c.4620472@news.ocis.net> <slrnbggc9a.8s2.ben-public-nospam@bunthorne.i.decadentplace.org.uk> <tpeaeb.0ec.ln@escape.shannon.net>
Message-ID: <87r8527a2v.fsf@pobox.com>

Charles Shannon Hendrix <shannon at news.widomaker.com> writes:

> In article
> <slrnbggc9a.8s2.ben-public-nospam at bunthorne.i.decadentplace.org.uk>, Ben
> Hutchings wrote:
[...]
> I debugged and maintained big Python programs, and it was a frequent
> error and problem.
[...]

So, given that people here *have* maintained big Python programs, and
haven't had these problems, what do you conclude about your team's
development practices?


John



From peter at engcorp.com  Sat Jul 19 23:59:11 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 23:59:11 -0400
Subject: Strange (?) list comprehension behavior
References: <mailman.1058652030.22432.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3F1A138F.549D1D@engcorp.com>

George Henry wrote:
> 
> class PSILex:
>   ops = ["~", "!", "@", ... "|", "||", ... ]

What are those ...'s ?  You may have left out critical
data for us.

>   ...
>   def __findAtom(self):
>     result = ""
>     ops = [op for op in PSILex.ops if self.text.startswith(op)]
> 
> ... results in a traceback and "TypeError: expected a character buffer
> object." In trying to figure out what was going on, in the Python Shell I
> subsequently tried

Please post the precise traceback, cut and pasted.  If it really said
that, and your subsequent analysis is valid, I think one of your "ops"
is not a string...



From rreagan at attbi.com  Sun Jul  6 22:02:06 2003
From: rreagan at attbi.com (Russell Reagan)
Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 02:02:06 GMT
Subject: A story about Python... sort of
References: <3f03f430$0$97222$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk> <mailman.1057259346.26179.python-list@python.org> <Yg3Na.97773$R73.11565@sccrnsc04> <mailman.1057533613.9015.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <yw4Oa.22149$Ey6.10815@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net>

"Dave Brueck" <dave at pythonapocrypha.com> wrote

> Actually, games are a particularly good example to illustrate the point:
> 1)...
> 2)...
> 3)...
> 4)...

Good points.


> There came a time when it was no longer economically viable to develop an
> entire game in assembly, and IMO we've *already* passed the point where
it's
> no longer economically viable to develop most games entirely in C++ - the
> time to market is too long, it's too expensive to add new features,
> recovering from early incorrect decisions is too costly, etc. Games are
> moving to higher-level languages as much as they can because it's a
> competitive advantage to do so.

After thinking about it I tend to agree. I'm a little partial to C/C++
because I develop (as a hobby) a chess playing program, and I like tinkering
with it to see how fast it can go, and finding clever ways of doing things.
A chess program is different from a 3D game in that with a 3D game, you can
stop at some point and say, "ok, this is fast enough." There is little point
in making the game run at 1000 frames per second if no human eye can see
more than 60 (or whatever the number is). With a chess program, you can
never really say, "ok, this is fast enough." Deep Blue peaked out at around
one billion positions per second with a very sophisticated evaluation of
each position, and it was still only on par with the best humans in the
world. At some point a machine will be able to look ahead from the opening
to the end of the game and "solve" chess, and then we can say, "ok, that's
fast enough." But until that happens in a few thousand years (maybe), there
is no such thing as "fast enough". The same could be said for cryptography
software, finding larger prime numbers, probably medical research, and other
similar domains where "fast enough" doesn't exist. Granted, these are few,
but some, like medical research and cryptography, are very important.

Anyway, I know of one chess program written in python, and it is dreadfully
slow compared to *any* program written in C/C++ (that I've seen anyway). I
have just recently started learning python, and I'm interested in learning
about the python/c options that are available, and seeing if I can write a
chess engine in python/c that can compare to those written in C/C++. I
really like python so far, but I'm not sure how well it is suited for a
chess program. The things that make a chess program fast aren't really
python's strengths, but hopefully I'm being pessimistic due to my lack of
python/c knowledge. I just need to learn the language more so I can start
playing with python/c. Hopefully I won't end up writing the entire thing in
C and creating a python module like this:

import chess
chess.run_program_in_c
print "Thanks for playing! Bye!"

;-)





From sismex01 at hebmex.com  Tue Jul  1 10:06:38 2003
From: sismex01 at hebmex.com (sismex01 at hebmex.com)
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 09:06:38 -0500 
Subject: Suggesting for overloading the assign operator
Message-ID: <F7DB8D13DB61D511B6FF00B0D0F062330542E848@mail.hebmex.com>

> From: rimbalaya at yahoo.com [mailto:rimbalaya at yahoo.com] 
> Sent: Lunes, 30 de Junio de 2003 10:32 p.m.
> 
> Hi,
> 
> [..same rehash of overloading '=' a'la C++...]
>
> If the type of the variable was still undefined, ':=' would behave
> like '='. It might create confusion in future code, but does not break
> old code.
> 
> I think it would be a nice feature to have. Comments?
>

It's *not* a nice feature to have.  If this kind of
functionality, strictly applicable to mutable types,
is needed, then a self.set(x) method, or a self.value = x
property, can be created.

An overloadable assignment _statement_ is not going
to happen.

>
> Thanks,
> - Rim
>

You're welcome.

-gustavo
Advertencia:La informacion contenida en este mensaje es confidencial y
restringida, por lo tanto esta destinada unicamente para el uso de la
persona arriba indicada, se le notifica que esta prohibida la difusion de
este mensaje. Si ha recibido este mensaje por error, o si hay problemas en
la transmision, favor de comunicarse con el remitente. Gracias.




From soconnor at ibbotson.com  Thu Jul 24 16:28:09 2003
From: soconnor at ibbotson.com (Sean O'Connor)
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 15:28:09 -0500
Subject: Newbie question about Python & W2K Admin
Message-ID: <FD53D63E5CFDFA439ADFCFC20C618CA959C733@SANDYCHEEKS.iachicago.ibbotson.com>

This doesn't do what you want, but it's an example of some win2k admin.

"""Perform user and group administration"""
import pythoncom
import win32com.client
import win32api
import winerror

UF_DONT_EXPIRE_PASSWD = 0x10000

def createGroup(computerName, groupName, groupDesc):
    try:
        obj = win32com.client.GetObject("WinNT://" + computerName)
        group = obj.Create("group", groupName)
        group.Put("Description", groupDesc)
        group.SetInfo()
        return group
    except pythoncom.com_error, (hr, msg, exc, arg):
        scode = exc[5]
        print win32api.FormatMessage(scode)[:-2]      

def createUser(computerName, userName, password, fullname, description):
    try:
        obj = win32com.client.GetObject("WinNT://" + computerName)
        user = obj.Create("user", userName)
        user.SetInfo()
        user.SetPassword(password)
        user.Put("FullName", fullname)
        user.Put("Description", description)
        flags = user.Get("UserFlags")
        flags |= UF_DONT_EXPIRE_PASSWD
        user.Put("UserFlags",  flags)
        user.SetInfo()
        return user
    except pythoncom.com_error, (hr, msg, exc, arg):
        scode = exc[5]
        print win32api.FormatMessage(scode)[:-2]      


-----Original Message-----
From: stuartc [mailto:stuart_clemons at us.ibm.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 2:25 PM
To: python-list at python.org
Subject: Newbie question about Python & W2K Admin


Hi all:

I need to change a few Local Security Settings on a number of W2K
machines. An example of a Security Setting I need to change is the
"Minimum password length" setting, which is under Account Policies,
Password Policy.

Instead of doing this manually on each machine, I would like to have an
automated way to do this.  Can Python be used for this ?

Any direction on how to automate this using Python or some other tool
will be greatly appreciated.

- Stuart
-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list




From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Thu Jul  3 11:52:10 2003
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 3 Jul 2003 11:52:10 -0400
Subject: Suggesting for overloading the assign operator
References: <6f03c4a5.0306301931.3f15fbb7@posting.google.com> <6f03c4a5.0307022119.2b0a4bc1@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <be1jfa$f31$1@panix3.panix.com>

In article <6f03c4a5.0307022119.2b0a4bc1 at posting.google.com>,
Rim <rimbalaya at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>I think the suggestion to solve the problem by using the __setattr__
>special method will not work because it intercepts attribute
>assignment of the form "self.attr = somthing", and not what I want,
>which is "name = something".

Why don't you follow my suggestion about creating your own language?
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

Usenet is not a democracy.  It is a weird cross between an anarchy and a
dictatorship.  



From owski at hotmail.com  Tue Jul 15 09:06:30 2003
From: owski at hotmail.com (Adam Ruth)
Date: 15 Jul 2003 06:06:30 -0700
Subject: Qualified appology (was Re: anything like C++ references?)
References: <b8c3hvsesjoumiboobml3nsnajtha99mp1@4ax.com>  <mailman.1058129901.28248.python-list@python.org>  <plk3hv0s1m2egf4s34jo6vjedk0q8r2mu9@4ax.com>  <m365m6ul5c.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>  <1br3hv4434gn7p2pdg1bgtg8dtlak3id3s@4ax.com>  <f0f51c80.0307140708.3c88363d@posting.google.com>  <jm76hvkmdqq3erpd89mcvo0l1d0sbfcivm@4ax.com> <20030714172215452-0600@news.xmission.com> <rqu6hvgooedmq475ig3ic9ngqgj6uq0hv2@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <f0f51c80.0307150506.69752fe5@posting.google.com>

Stephen Horne <intentionally at blank.co.uk> wrote in message news:<rqu6hvgooedmq475ig3ic9ngqgj6uq0hv2 at 4ax.com>...
> On Mon, 14 Jul 2003 23:22:18 +0000 (UTC), Adam Ruth
> <owski at hotmail.com> wrote:

> Whatever. I've admitted the mistakes that I recognise I've made. If
> you think there are other mistakes that I haven't recognised, its up
> to you whether you explain them or not.
> 
> Just 'cause I can't sleep the last few nights, doesn't mean anyone has
> to read my rantings, much less reply. Even if they *are* accurate
> rantings ;-)

I just think we've got different viewpoints, and that's okay.  Usenet
is different than the rest of the world in that opinions think they
are facts (okay, maybe it's not so much different than the rest of the
world).

I'm always up for a lively debate, but at some point I do grow weary
of hearing my own typing, and I'm certain that the bandwidth in this
forum is better used for other purposes....  perhaps I'll go spew some
opinions in comp.lang.java.advocacy...

You've made some valid points, and I appreaciated hearing them, it's
helped me to understand Python (and programming) that much better.

Adam Ruth



From news at exultants.org  Tue Jul  1 05:05:38 2003
From: news at exultants.org (Van Gale)
Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 09:05:38 GMT
Subject: new to python - looking for a good book
In-Reply-To: <9d5509fa.0306301704.3234d552@posting.google.com>
References: <bdpm5v$g3d$1@info.service.rug.nl> <bdpo99$k4e@newton.cc.rl.ac.uk> <9d5509fa.0306301704.3234d552@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <C9cMa.43$MB2.896021@newssvr15.news.prodigy.com>

Peter Ballard wrote:
> Why should I buy any of these books when I've got the (free) official
> Python documentation downloaded, and always just a click or two away?

Well speaking for myself, I like to read different viewpoints and learn 
insights that different authors are able to express.  The official docs 
are great, but are purely reference.  The Nutshell book goes beyond 
simple reference and provides some great insights and covers some areas 
outside of stock python (like DBAPI 2.0).  Lundh's "Python Standard 
Library" goes beyond the official library docs by providing useful 
example code for most library modules.

Van




From martin at v.loewis.de  Mon Jul 14 16:21:12 2003
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-15?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 14 Jul 2003 22:21:12 +0200
Subject: Reloading nested modules
References: <mailman.1058132120.31051.python-list@python.org> <m31xwuul39.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <yZCQa.2612$Jk5.1881803@feed2.centurytel.net>
Message-ID: <m33ch8g8qv.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Greg Fortune <lists at gregfortune.com> writes:

> I've wondered about the same problem and considered that as a solution, but
> never tested it.  I assume that *wouldn't* rebind all of the imports that
> have already happened..  ie, I think the references to the old copies of
> the modules would hang around even though new ones have been imported.

Depends on the import. For 

import foo

the reload would take effect, as, on reload, the module object stays,
its dictionary stays, and it is just the dictionary contents that is
recreated.

For

from foo import bar

you still have the old value of bar after reloading.

> Regardless, the scoping doesn't work so an attempt to reload the embedded
> module assumes it is available in local scope and fails.  Again, that would
> lead me to believe my first statement is true, but when I tested just now,
> I got no further than the scoping problem...

What scoping problem?

> I've been intended to write something that will take a module name and
> rebind it in all namespaces that have it currently, but haven't got around
> to it.  If I ever do, I'll post it here :)

Just ask Guido to borrow you the time machine - this has already been
done.

Regards,
Martin




From skip at pobox.com  Sun Jul 27 21:17:06 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 20:17:06 -0500
Subject: code coverage tool with emacs integration?
In-Reply-To: <87ptjva3vx.fsf@pobox.com>
References: <87u198ree4.fsf@pobox.com>
        <mailman.1059317680.30470.python-list@python.org>
        <87ptjva3vx.fsf@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <16164.31122.924239.543610@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    >> How would you get any context showing you what lines in the region
    >> had been executed at least once?

    John> Why would I want to?

For me, analyzing code coverage consists of studying the code in the region
around the uncovered line(s).  Knowing which lines in the area have and
haven't been covered helps me analyze what's missing in my test coverage.

Skip




From gradha at titanium.sabren.com  Sun Jul 13 06:07:53 2003
From: gradha at titanium.sabren.com (Grzegorz Adam Hankiewicz)
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 12:07:53 +0200
Subject: mailbox_reader 1.0.2 -- Python module to read UNIX mailboxes sequentially.
In-Reply-To: <bepqgn$fkc$1@slb9.atl.mindspring.net>
References: <mailman.1058008218.28808.python-list@python.org> <bepqgn$fkc$1@slb9.atl.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <20030713100753.GB19185@pedos.es>

On 2003-07-12, Andrew Dalke <adalke at mindspring.com> wrote:
> Grzegorz Adam Hankiewicz:
> >     The module provides two classes: Mailbox, a file-like
> >     object which allows you to iterate through the contents of
> >     a mailbox, and Email, an object which holds the individual
> >     emails returned by Mailbox.
> 
> What does this do that the standard Python library doesn't support?
>   mailbox - http://python.org/doc/current/lib/module-mailbox.html
>       This module defines a number of classes that allow easy and uniform
>       access to mail messages in a (Unix) mailbox.
>   email - http://python.org/doc/current/lib/module-email.html
>      The email package is a library for managing email messages,

* python 1.5.2 support.

* last time I checked I was unable to use the mailbox module to read
  a mailbox, write it, and have them byte to byte identical. Didn't
  bother to check if this has changed, though:

 http://groups.google.com/groups?threadm=f4c749a5.0201291538.2cd15616%40posting.google.com

* MUCH easier to use, open and read, you can't do much more.

* MUCH smaller. Easier to read the source and understand it.

* IHateUselessMixedCaseStyleThankYou. IHateEvenMore the_fact_that
  the standardpythonlibrary mixes so_many DifferentStylesTogether.

* personal fulfillment, I enjoy rewritting wheels.

-- 
 Please don't send me private copies of your public answers. Thanks.




From vze4rx4y at verizon.net  Thu Jul 17 15:29:33 2003
From: vze4rx4y at verizon.net (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 19:29:33 GMT
Subject: list() coercion
References: <mailman.1058449406.8072.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <xOCRa.4443$0F4.3683@nwrdny02.gnilink.net>

[Bob Gailer]
> I have just read the docs 2.2.5 Iterator Types. Unfortunately this page
> seems to be written for someone who already understands the page. Is there
> any other explanation or examples?

The Py2.3 release candidate goes out tonight.
In it, I've included sections on iterators and generators
in the tutorial.  I'm interested to know whether you
find it helpful:

http://www.python.org/dev/doc/devel/tut/node11.html#SECTION001190000000000000000
0


Raymond Hettinger





From g2h5dqi002 at sneakemail.com  Wed Jul 16 23:04:02 2003
From: g2h5dqi002 at sneakemail.com (Greg Ewing (using news.cis.dfn.de))
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 15:04:02 +1200
Subject: list() coercion
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1058400718.22076.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1058400718.22076.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bf51v6$bc5v1$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>

Ian Bicking wrote:
> However, list() seems to call the object's
> __len__, 
 >
> Is there a way I can keep this from happening?

Give your object an __iter__ method that returns
itself.

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg




From alanmk at hotmail.com  Sun Jul 20 14:35:27 2003
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 19:35:27 +0100
Subject: Threading Pool Event()
References: <0tRRa.212$vD1.8077@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au> <bf8ri5$cs7$1@panix1.panix.com> <NDZRa.273$vD1.11889@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au> <ia1Sa.304$vD1.13822@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au> <mailman.1058582130.2101.python-list@python.org> <9j3Sa.319$vD1.15038@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au> <3F195170.E60FB1A6@engcorp.com> <9uhSa.578$vD1.23592@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au>
Message-ID: <3F1AE0EF.5C62A293@hotmail.com>

Graeme Matthew wrote:

> here is my code, please criticise it to death i wont take offence

[snip]

> #ON A MULTIPLE CPU MACHINE 2 SEPERATE SERVERS SHOULD BE RUN
> #THE INCOMING REQUEST WILL NEED TO BE SWITCHED BETWEEN SERVERS
> #THIS IS DUE TO THE GLOBAL INTERPRETER LOCK (GIL) IN PYTHON

If my understanding of your intentions is correct, then I think you're
expecting that multiple python threads within the same interpreter
will migrate to multiple processors, and thus execute in parallel,
i.e. simultaneously on multiple processors.

However, the GIL prevents precisely that: if you have one python
thread running on one processor, it will lock the GIL, thus causing
all other python threads on other processors to be suspended until the
GIL is free again.

One way to achieve true concurrency across multiple processors is
to release the GIL when you are processing, which you cannot do from
within python code. You have to write a C language extension to do the
work, that releases the GIL before doing its job, and reacquires it
again when finished.

If you really want true concurrency, and still want to write in pure
python, then one way to do it is run multiple python interpreters in
separate OS processes, which are bound to different processors. Which
means that

1. You can no longer use Queue.Queue objects to communicate between
servers, since your servers no longer share an address space.

2. You have to use some alternate comms mechanism between the two
servers, such as shared memory, named pipes or something like Pyro.

3. You can no longer pass the socket object across wrapped in a "job"
object, since the file descriptor tables of the two server processes
will be different.

Lastly, I have a question of my own: I've read statements along the
lines of "having the GIL in python provides certain guarantees that
make certain things possible". I can't remember specifics. I'd be most
grateful if someone could point me to reading material (apart from the
source, Luke :-) which describes what these guarantees are, and what
they make possible.

TIA,

--
alan kennedy
-----------------------------------------------------
check http headers here: http://xhaus.com/headers
email alan:              http://xhaus.com/mailto/alan



From mwilson at the-wire.com  Thu Jul 10 16:57:02 2003
From: mwilson at the-wire.com (Mel Wilson)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 16:57:02 -0400
Subject: replace value of a specific position
References: <bek8ce$ok2$1@news.uni-kl.de> <3F0DA6FB.90603@soraia.com>
 <jVhPa.8908$ru2.873667@news20.bellglobal.com>
Message-ID: <eMdD/ks/KfJb089yn@the-wire.com>

In article <jVhPa.8908$ru2.873667 at news20.bellglobal.com>,
"Sean Ross" <sross at connectmail.carleton.ca> wrote:
># or, without importing the string module:
>>>> t = '010010101001001110100101010111'
>>>> t = ''.join((t[:5],'2',t[6:]))
>>>> t
>'010012101001001110100101010111'


'2'.join ((t[:5], t[6:]))


        Sorry.          Mel.



From jtuc at ev1.net  Tue Jul 29 10:40:10 2003
From: jtuc at ev1.net (Jordan Tucker)
Date: 29 Jul 2003 07:40:10 -0700
Subject: Cannot register dll created using "py2exe --com-dll"
References: <57de9986.0307290052.688e54c5@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <467c9d67.0307290640.4f7d87b1@posting.google.com>

Err, I meant argv just isn't getting set :) It's early.



From andy at wild-flower.co.uk  Fri Jul 18 08:28:15 2003
From: andy at wild-flower.co.uk (Andy Jewell)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 13:28:15 +0100
Subject: using functions and file renaming problem
In-Reply-To: <3F174E76.4000302@hotmail.com>
References: <3F174E76.4000302@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <200307181327.49804.andy@wild-flower.co.uk>

On Friday 18 Jul 2003 2:33 am, hokiegal99 wrote:
> A few questions about the following code. How would I "wrap" this in a
> function, and do I need to?
>
> Also, how can I make the code smart enough to realize that when a file
> has 2 or more bad charcters in it, that the code needs to run until all
> bad characters are gone?

It almost is ;-)

> For example, if a file has the name
> "<bad*mac\file" the program has to run 3 times to get all three bad
> chars out of the file name.
>
> The passes look like this:
>
> 1. <bad*mac\file becomes -bad*mac\file
> 2. -bad*mac\file becomes -bad-mac\file
> 3. -bad-mac\file becomes -bad-mac-file
>
> I think the problem is that once the program finds a bad char in a
> filename it replaces it with a dash, which creates a new filename that
> wasn't present when the program first ran, thus it has to run again to
> see the new filename.

No, the problem is that you're throwing away all but the last correction.  
Read my comments below:

import os, re, string
bad = re.compile(r'%2f|%25|[*?<>/\|\\]') #search for these.
print " "
setpath = raw_input("Path to the dir that you would like to clean: ")
print " "
print "--- Remove Bad Charaters From Filenames ---"
print " "
for root, dirs, files in os.walk(setpath):
     for file in files:
         badchars = bad.findall(file)	# find any bad characters
         newfile = file
         for badchar in badchars:		# loop through each character in badchars  
         # note that if badchars is empty, this loop is not entered
             # show whats happening         
             print "replacing",badchar,"in",newfile,":", 
             # replace all occurrences of this badchar with '-' and remember 
             # it for next iteration of loop:            
             newfile = newfile.replace(badchar,'-') #replace bad chars.
             print newfile
         if badchars:	# were there any bad characters in the name?
             newpath = os.path.join(root,newfile)
             oldpath = os.path.join(root,file)
             os.rename(oldpath,newpath)
             print oldpath
print newpath
print " "
print "--- Done ---"
print " "


wrt wrapping it up in a function, here's a starter for you... "fill in the 
blanks":


-------8<-----------
def cleanup(setpath):
    # compile regex for finding bad characters

    # walk directory tree...

    # find any bad characters

    # loop through each character in badchars

             # replace all occurrences of this badchar with '-' and remember 

    # were there any bad characters in the name?

-------8<-----------

To call this you could do (on linux - mac paths are different):

-------8<-----------
cleanup("/home/andy/Python")
-------8<-----------

hope that helps
-andyj





From creedy at mitretek.org  Wed Jul 23 10:49:20 2003
From: creedy at mitretek.org (Chris Reedy)
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 10:49:20 -0400
Subject: Python Mystery Theatre -- Episode 3:  Extend this
In-Reply-To: <tH5Ta.24164$7O.4744@nwrdny01.gnilink.net>
References: <tH5Ta.24164$7O.4744@nwrdny01.gnilink.net>
Message-ID: <3f1ea08e_2@corp-news.newsgroups.com>

I tried these out myself after making my guesses. Here's what I found:

Raymond Hettinger wrote:
> [snip]
> 
> This time, the extra credit is for picking-out the three
> that surfaced as errors in my own, real code over
> the past few years (the example context below may be
> different, but the type of error occurred in real code).
> 
> [snip]
> 
> ACT I ---------------------
> def real(z):
>     return hasattr(z, 'real') and z.real or z
> def imag(z):
>     return hasattr(z, 'imag') and z.imag or 0
> for z in 3+4j, 5, 0+6j, 7.0, 8+0j, 9L:
>     print real(z), imag(z)

I spotted the error in this one (I've been bitten by this more than 
once) if z.real or z.imag is false, I get z or 0. That results is two 
problems:

For 0+6j, the answer is 6j and 6.0, definitely not what was expected.
For 8+0j, the answer is 8.0 and 0, not 8.0 and 0.0. This is close to 
what was expected and, if a bug at all, would be a rather subtle one.

I would certainly expect that Raymond's been bitten by this one. I would 
guess that every experienced Python programmers been bitten by some form 
of this one.

> ACT II ---------------------
> uniq = {}
> for k in (10, 'ten', 10+0j, u'ten', 'Ten', 't'+'en', 10.0):
>     uniq(k) = 1
> print len(uniq)

I had to experiment with this one. I guessed 3, which turned out to be 
right. I was a little surprised that 'ten' and u'ten' hash the same. 
However, after thinking about that, I decided I was happy with that result.

I was more surprised that 10 and 10.0 came out the same. One of these 
days I'll take the time to look up the hash algorithm for floats to see 
how this was achieved.

> ACT III ---------------------
> s = 'abracadabra'
> for i in [3, 2, 1, 0]:
>         print s[i:], s[-i:]

Got this one the first time. -0 == 0, so s[-0:] == s[0:] == s. I'll bet 
that this is one that burned Raymond.

> ACT IV ---------------------
> pets = list('cat ')
> pets += 'dog '
> pets.extend('fish ')
> print pets + 'python'

I guessed ['c', 'a', 't', ' ', 'd', 'o', 'g', ' ', 'f', 'i', 's', 'h', ' 
', 'p', 'y', 't', 'h', 'o', 'n']. I tried it to discover that the print 
statement at the end throws. I decided that not concatenating strings to 
  lists doesn't bother me since I would believe that this is an error 
more often than not and pets + list('python') would hopefully make the 
intent clear. On the other hand, if I saw pets = list('cat') in code I 
was reviewing I suspect that I would want to assure myself that ['c', 
'a', 't'] was what was intended and not ['cat'].

I also much bothered by pets += 'dog ' working but pets + 'python' not. 
What's the justification for the checking in one place and not the other?

> INTERMISSION (with output included, oh yeah! ------------
> 
>>>>import operator
>>>>1 - reduce(operator.add, [1e-7]* 10**7)
> 
> 2.4983004554002264e-010

Round off error. Welcome to the world of floating point arithmetic!

> ACT V ---------------------
> class Bin:
>     numitems = 0
>     contents = []
> 
>     def add(self, item):
>         self.numitems += 1
>         self.contents += [item]
> 
> laundry = Bin()
> groceries = Bin()
> 
> laundry.add('shirt')
> groceries.add('bananas')
> groceries.add('nuts')
> laundry.add('socks')
> groceries.add('pretzels')
> 
> print laundry.numitems, laundry.contents
> print groceries.numitems, groceries.contents

Learned something on this one. I caught that, as defined, numitems and 
contents are attributes of the class Bin, rather than instances of Bin. 
(The fix is to add the missing __init__ method.) I predicted that the 
result of both print statements would be:

5 ['shirt', 'bananas', 'nuts', 'socks', 'pretzels']

When I tried it I got:

2 ['shirt', 'bananas', 'nuts', 'socks', 'pretzels']
3 ['shirt', 'bananas', 'nuts', 'socks', 'pretzels']

After thinking about it (and reviewing the Reference Manual), I realized 
that self.contents += items does an in place update of Bin.contents, but 
the augmented assignment self.numitems += 1, is the same as 
self.numitems = self.numitems+1 (since there is no in place update for 
integers or immutable objects in general), which has the result of 
creating the attribute numitems on the laundry and groceries instances.

> ACT VI -----------------------------------------
> print "What is the technical name for this algorithm or transformation?"
> a = range(0, 100, 10)
> import random
> random.shuffle(a)
> print "Input:", a
> swaps = 0
> for i in range(len(a)):
>     for j in range(i+1, len(a)):
>     if a[i] > a[j]:
>         i, j, a[i], a[j], swaps = j, i, a[j], a[i], swaps+1
> print "Output:", a
> print "Workload;", swaps

I went through a number of different answers on this one. First, there 
was the indentation error at if a[i] > a[j]. I decided that was probably 
a typo on Raymond's part.

The assignment i,j, ... = j,i, ... . Kept me guessing. Why do that?  At 
first I though it had no effect. (Note: that the corresponding 
assignment in a C program which read:

     for(i = 0; i < len(a); i++)
         for(j = i+1; j < len(a); j++) ...

would require a lot more thought as to the likely result.

At this point I convinced myself that this was an interchange sort gone 
wrong and would just produce garbage. When I tried it, I discovered that 
  the correct technical name for this program is the identity 
transformation. That is, nothing happened.

Reexamining the code, I realized that flipping the two indices has the 
effect of assigning the two array elements back to themselves, resulting 
in no effect.

About this point in time, I also realized that the sort should work if 
you take away the spurious assignments to i and j. That is,

a[i], a[j], swaps = a[j], a[i], swaps

will actually sort the list correctly. The correct technical name for 
this is "sort by successive minima". This is a slightly different sort 
from an interchange sort or a bubble sort, even though all three of 
these sorts are O(n**2).

What's the real lesson here? I have two suggestions:

1. Watch out for side effects when doing compound assignments.

2. Never try to write your own sort when a.sort() is available.

----------------

OK, which three did Raymond personnally stumble over. I'll guess I, III, 
and VI. Why VI? Well, because V, while subtle in some ways, doesn't look 
to me like one you'd run into until you knew what you were doing, at 
which point: why this missing __init__ method. VI looks like something 
you might do by accident while trying to write a sort routine.

   Chris




From mis6 at pitt.edu  Thu Jul 31 12:00:10 2003
From: mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato)
Date: 31 Jul 2003 09:00:10 -0700
Subject: keystroke check
References: <mailman.1059619004.15764.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <2259b0e2.0307310800.3310ec83@posting.google.com>

Wes Fraser <ugly_411 at yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.1059619004.15764.python-list at python.org>...
> Is there any way to check in a loop to see if at that
> given moment in the program, a key on the key board is
> being pressed without actually stopping like raw_ipnut
> does?
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Wes
> 
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
> http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com

On Unix/Linux you could use curses:

import curses

def wait4q(stdscr):
    stdscr.addstr("Press 'q' to exit\n")
    while True:
        if stdscr.getch()==ord('q'): break

if __name__=='__main__':
    curses.wrapper(wait4q)

However, curses could be overkill and it is not portable to Windows, AFAIK.
The curses how-to suggest the console module,
http://effbot.org/zone/console-index.htm
which runs on Windows only.
HTH,

      Michele



From martin at v.loewis.de  Sun Jul  6 10:27:02 2003
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-15?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 06 Jul 2003 16:27:02 +0200
Subject: PEP idea. ( removing __slots__ )
References: <3f073594$1_2@news1.vip.uk.com> <be8hr1$8eh$06$1@news.t-online.com> <3f083043$1_3@news1.vip.uk.com>
Message-ID: <m3wuev20jt.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

simon place <simon_place at whsmithnet.co.uk> writes:

> The point is to combine __dict__ and __slots__ into a new __attribs__,
> the distinction being the type of __attribs__.  If you don't specify
> __attribs__ in the class you get the default __dict__ behavior, if you
> do, and use a tuple, then you get the __slots__ behavior, and you can
> easily tell which by checking the type, you could also iterate over
> the attributes without caring which it was.

So how is this different from the current situation? If you don't
specify __slots__, you get the default __dict__ behaviour, if you do,
and use a tuple, you get the __slots__ behaviour, and you can easily
tell which by checking the type.

You also have the case of both __slots__ and __dict__ being in a type,
and this is a useful case also.

Regards,
Martin




From ngps at netmemetic.com  Sun Jul  6 22:11:47 2003
From: ngps at netmemetic.com (Ng Pheng Siong)
Date: 7 Jul 2003 02:11:47 GMT
Subject: M2Crypto: How to check server certificate?
References: <HBF.20030706vmfw@bombur.uio.no>
Message-ID: <beakt3$i61$1@mawar.singnet.com.sg>

According to Hallvard B Furuseth  <h.b.furuseth(nospam)@usit.uio(nospam).no>:
> Does anyone know how I check the server certificate with M2Crypto?
> Currently a program I have inherited does this:
> 
>     #!/local/bin/python2.2
>     import xmlrpclib
>     from M2Crypto.m2xmlrpclib import Server, SSL_Transport
>     svr = Server('http://my.machine.no:8000',
>                  SSL_Transport(), encoding='iso8859-1')
>     # TODO: check server certificate
>     secret = svr.login('myuser', 'mypassword')

Specify an SSL context:

    from M2Crypto import SSL 
    from M2Crypto.m2xmlrpclib import Server, SSL_Transport

    # Server is Zope-2.6.1 on ZServerSSL/0.12.
    ctx = SSL.Context('sslv3')
    ctx.load_cert_chain('client.pem')
    ctx.load_verify_locations('ca.pem')
    ctx.set_verify(SSL.verify_peer, 10)
    zs = Server('https://127.0.0.1:9443/', SSL_Transport(ctx))
    print zs.propertyMap()

My to-be-released ZServerSSL 0.12 does client certs, too, including mapping
from a subject DN to a Zope username. The above snippet was written to test
that.


-- 
Ng Pheng Siong <ngps at netmemetic.com> 

http://firewall.rulemaker.net  -+- Manage Your Firewall Rulebase Changes
http://www.post1.com/home/ngps -+- Open Source Python Crypto & SSL



From irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl  Thu Jul 24 17:53:50 2003
From: irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 23:53:50 +0200
Subject: Needing help with sockets
In-Reply-To: <Xns93C2D65B995AdionMartHotmail@205.237.233.52>
References: <Xns93BF12F42BDB3dionMartHotmail@205.237.233.52> <3f1c4378$0$49110$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl> <Xns93C2D65B995AdionMartHotmail@205.237.233.52>
Message-ID: <3f20556d$0$49101$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

Martin Dion wrote:

> Thank you for your reply, but I have not been able to find good information 
> about the select module for a client. Do you know a good place to find 
> tutorials about select module for clients ?

I'm not sure what you mean with 'select module for a client'...
What do you need to know that is not in the module documentation
or the Python socket howto?

Anyway have a look at the following mini example that I whipped up:

-------------
from select import select
from socket import *
import sys

sock=socket(AF_INET, SOCK_STREAM)
sock.connect( ('ftp.xs4all.nl', 21) )  # ftp port

print '>',    # prompt

while 1:
	ins, outs, exs = select([sys.stdin, sock], [], [])
	if sys.stdin in ins:
		userline=sys.stdin.readline()
		sock.send(userline)
		print '>',
	if sock in ins:
		socketdata=sock.recv(1000)   # buffer = 1000
		if socketdata:
			print socketdata,
		else:
			break   # no more data

-------------

Does this help? If not, please describe in more detail what you
want to achive, what you've already tried and why that didn't work.

Good luck!

--Irmen de Jong




From martin at v.loewis.de  Sat Jul 12 17:12:16 2003
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 23:12:16 +0200
Subject: anything like C++ references?
In-Reply-To: <13t0hvsb7idh0g6ac3upe5k0qd6flc17ah@4ax.com>
References: <13t0hvsb7idh0g6ac3upe5k0qd6flc17ah@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3F1079B0.3010600@v.loewis.de>

Tom Plunket wrote:

> Is there any way to do references like this in Python?

No.

Martin




From srijit at yahoo.com  Mon Jul 28 03:45:04 2003
From: srijit at yahoo.com (srijit at yahoo.com)
Date: 28 Jul 2003 00:45:04 -0700
Subject: Python and VS.Net
References: <mailman.1058934395.4215.python-list@python.org> <bflf99$aqd$1@slb9.atl.mindspring.net> <mailman.1058989177.1549.python-list@python.org> <bfo14i$ibh$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <221d8dbe.0307272345.63503afd@posting.google.com>

Hello,
After going through various threads and messages, blogs and some local
discussions, I would like to share my impression. However, I do not
have any hands on experience on VS.NET.

1) Both Java and .NET are going to stay and keep competing with each
other for developers' mindshare.
2) At present Python 2.3 for Windows is based on VC6. This cannot
continue for ever. I consider absence of compatability of Python with
VC7/VS.NET as a major threat for Python's future.
3) Python and Java are already compatible with each other through
Jython. Python is also extremely compatible with Windows (without
.NET) thorough Mark Hammond's excellent library win32all.
4) Unfortunately, Microsoft's .NET does not appear to be friendly for
dynamic languages like Python. .NET framework seems to favour
statically typed languages. But I look forward to a solution.
5) Even now, it is not easy to convince management about Python's
adavantages in corporate world. It will be come more difficult, in
future, if Python.NET is not available.
6) Ruby users are also taking initiative to make Ruby work with .NET
framework. Refer http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&frame=right&th=9fa784e70c5dc0cf&seekm=20030716140638.M85561%40deltadata.dk#link1

I am interested to learn what core python team is thinking about
compatability of Python 2.x, 3.x with Windows/VC7/VS.NET.

Regards,
Srijit


"Matt Gerrans" <mgerrans at mindspring.com> wrote in message news:<bfo14i$ibh$1 at slb6.atl.mindspring.net>...
> "Trent Mick" wrote:
> > > If your Python code could thereby access the .NET libraries, that would
>  be
> > > another story.   That would be like Jython for .NET.   I was hoping that
>  was
> > > what Active State's Python-in-VS.NET-thingy was, but alas it was too
>  good to
> > > be true: it is only (so far) a color-syntaxing Python editor that takes
>  two
> > > or three minutes to load up.
> >
> > You are mixing up two difference ideas. ActiveState's VisualPython is a
> > plugin for VS.NET to provide all the IDE stuff (like editting,
> > debugging, interactive shell, help, intellisense, etc) for Python
> > programmers.
> 
> Uh, isn't that pretty much what I said?   I don't think I mixed up the
> ideas.   I only said that what ActiveState's Visual Python was and what I
> was originally hoping it would be were not the same.
> 
> > The idea of integrating the Python language somehow into the .NET
> > framework is independent of VS.NET-the-IDE, though I suppose one might
> > like some level of connection between the two. Mark Hammond, before and
> > while at ActiveState did do some exploratory work in this direction. But
> > that is all it has come to so far: exploration. So your "too good to be
> > true" does (currently) apply to a so called Python.NET. This code is
> > currently in PyWin32's CVS tree one SourceForge:
> >     http://sf.net/projects/pywin32
> > There is also the independent Kobra project that I have not looked at.
> 
> Yes, I was aware of these, too.   Despite Microsoft's claims about the .NET
> platform being language-independent, it doesn't seem to be a simple task to
> get Python going on it.    So far, I think there are only VB.NET, C++, C#
> and J#.   No Python#, Perl# or Ruby#, as of yet...



From theller at python.net  Fri Jul  4 11:15:07 2003
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 17:15:07 +0200
Subject: [Dream] A meta-wrapper module to interface any C dynamic
 library
References: <pan.2003.07.04.10.59.31.477048@virgilio.it> <pan.2003.07.04.12.54.02.994560@webone.com.au>
Message-ID: <isqifhms.fsf@python.net>

"Simon Burton" <simonb at webone.com.au> writes:

> On Fri, 04 Jul 2003 10:59:39 +0000, Francesco Bochicchio wrote:
>
>
>> Did anybody ever attempted to do something like this?
>> 
>> Ciao
>> -----
>> FB
>
> yeah,
>
> http://arrowtheory.com/software/python/index.html
>
> it's hard :)
>
I have tried cdecl.py to parse windows header files, and it does a
pretty good job.

I say this after also having tried PLY
http://systems.cs.uchicago.edu/ply/ with a partial C grammer, and
finally gave up because I'm not sure it is possible to parse ANSI C with
a parser like this (at least its not possible for me).

I found one problem in cdecl.py (it doesn't parse hex constants
correctly), and I had to extend it somewhat for MS specific keywords
like __stdcall or so. I also ran the header files through the MSVC
preprocessor, and hand-edit them somewhat before throwing them at it.

I'm not really sure if it's a good idea to automatically create ctypes
wrappers from windows.h...

But I finally gave up when I encountered some really strange errors...

Thomas



From pyth at devel.trillke.net  Wed Jul  2 09:43:33 2003
From: pyth at devel.trillke.net (holger krekel)
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 15:43:33 +0200
Subject: Good code patterns in Python
In-Reply-To: <6qllvh9oi3.fsf@salmakis.intevation.de>; from bh@intevation.de on Wed, Jul 02, 2003 at 01:06:28PM +0200
References: <cb035744.0307010149.399df2eb@posting.google.com> <XevMa.4146$Vx2.2206981@newssvr28.news.prodigy.com> <3F0285F0.EDF697E3@alcyone.com> <6qllvh9oi3.fsf@salmakis.intevation.de>
Message-ID: <20030702154333.D6906@prim.han.de>

Bernhard Herzog wrote:
> Erik Max Francis <max at alcyone.com> writes:
> 
> >  The
> > complete solution to this would probably be a conditional expression,
> > e.g.:
> > 
> > 	variable = (if condition: someValue else: otherValue)
> > 
> > eliminating the duplication which can lead to errors.  (Python, of
> > course, doesn't have such a construct, and the silence after the
> > conditional expression PEP vote and the long silence thereafter suggests
> > that it never will.)
> 
> Guido broke his silence at EuroPython: The ternary operator will not be
> added to Python.

and there was great joy especially among the people who didn't find an
easy way to vote "no" :-)

Actually Guido made it pretty clear that he will be very careful about
adding language features especially at the syntax level. Moreover, for
Python-3 he plans to throw out some stuff like the string-module ...

cheers,

    holger




From jjl at pobox.com  Sat Jul 26 19:34:07 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 27 Jul 2003 00:34:07 +0100
Subject: path module
References: <1057651068.5348.386.camel@lothlorien> <20030708113219.H6906@prim.han.de> <mailman.1057686613.6463.python-list@python.org> <11234c14.0307211016.344d40bc@posting.google.com> <mailman.1059144006.6426.python-list@python.org> <11234c14.0307251219.70e77a85@posting.google.com> <mailman.1059166140.32575.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87brvgc174.fsf@pobox.com>

holger krekel <pyth at devel.trillke.net> writes:

> Jason Orendorff wrote:
[...about passing path objects to library methods that expect a string...]
> > This is a type rule.  Such a thing has no place in Python.
> 
> Oh, the stdlib has lots of places where it expects certain types in
> certain places.  Look for e.g. 'isinstance'. 

It's not even a strict type rule.  It's just that a path object
wouldn't implement the string interface.  I don't know why that would
have 'no place in Python', or be 'counterlogical'.


John



From ianb at colorstudy.com  Fri Jul 25 18:55:32 2003
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: 25 Jul 2003 17:55:32 -0500
Subject: How safe is modifying locals()?
In-Reply-To: <WMdUa.100343$XV.6044659@twister.austin.rr.com>
References: <BDcUa.100193$XV.6037947@twister.austin.rr.com>
	 <MvCdnTkcoJNP_7yiXTWJjw@comcast.com>
	 <WMdUa.100343$XV.6044659@twister.austin.rr.com>
Message-ID: <1059173731.28095.11177.camel@lothlorien>

On Fri, 2003-07-25 at 12:28, Paul Paterson wrote:
> Thanks Terry! I adjusted my tests and now see this behaviour exactly. 
> The function itself works but the changes do not propogate out to the 
> calling scope. So this approach of using locals() appears to be dead.
> 
> Are there any other approaches?

Think about what you are trying to do, and try to identify a (mutable)
object that can encapsulate that.  Then pass the object, and modify its
instance variables, like:

class Point:
    def __init__(self, x, y):
        self.x = x
        self.y = y

def change(p):
    p.y = 10

obj = Point(0, 0)
change(obj)
assert obj.y == 10


Maybe this mutable object will simply be the main application object,
and instead of functions you will use methods of that application
object.

  Ian






From graham__fawcett at hotmail.com  Thu Jul 10 14:10:55 2003
From: graham__fawcett at hotmail.com (Graham Fawcett)
Date: 10 Jul 2003 11:10:55 -0700
Subject: Business model for Open Source - advice wanted
References: <246a4e07.0307100613.fc2fc50@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <e9570f37.0307101010.4e5c21ea@posting.google.com>

Without regard to the specifics of your question: if you haven't done
so already, I'd recommend reading Eric Raymond's essay "The Magic
Cauldron."

Summary: "This paper analyzes the economics of open-source software.
It includes some explosion of common myths about software production
economics, a game-theoretical account of why open-source cooperation
is stable, and a taxonomy of open-source business models."

http://www.catb.org/~esr/writings/magic-cauldron/

-- Graham



From jjl at pobox.com  Sat Jul 19 09:53:30 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 19 Jul 2003 14:53:30 +0100
Subject: feature request: a better str.endswith
References: <mailman.1058569649.22466.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <87k7aer5b9.fsf@pobox.com>

Bob Gailer <bgailer at alum.rpi.edu> writes:
[...]
> In APL one can specify indexes for the various dimensions of an
> array. If B is a rank 2 array, B[1 2;3 4] retrieves columns 3 and 4 of
> rows 1 and 2. WIBNI one could in a similar way drill into a nested
> list. I know the various importable array modules do some of these
> tings, but they are limited to homogeneous data.

Numeric isn't, and I presume numarray isn't, either.

typecode 'O' in Numeric, IIRC.


John



From hst at empolis.co.uk  Thu Jul 17 03:43:20 2003
From: hst at empolis.co.uk (Harvey Thomas)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 08:43:20 +0100
Subject: Confusing automated translators.
Message-ID: <8FC4E7C302A6A64AAD5DB1FA0E825DEB53BDFC@hendrix.empolisuk.com>

Tim Roberts wrote
> Jack Diederich <jack at performancedrivers.com> wrote:
> >
> >My favorite example is comifying a list.
> >"1, 2, and 3" vs "1, 2 and 3" (journalist seem to prefer the later)
> >
> >"I dedicate this book to my parents, Jane, and God."
> >"I dedicate this book to my parents, Jane and God."
> 
> This is actually something that is changing over time.  It 
> used to be that
> "no final comma" was a hard and fast rule, but many of the more recent
> style guides now suggest the comma.
> 
> My 7th grader's English textbook advocates the final comma, 
> and it led me
> to get her into trouble in one assignment.
> -- 

Ah, the "Oxford comma". See http://www.askoxford.com/asktheexperts/faq/aboutother/oxfordcomma
for a bit more about it.

_____________________________________________________________________
This message has been checked for all known viruses by the MessageLabs Virus Scanning Service.




From ebolonev at rol.ru  Sun Jul  6 18:17:57 2003
From: ebolonev at rol.ru (Egor Bolonev)
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 09:17:57 +1100
Subject: Using Loops to track user input
References: <bea0p6$17f$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <bea843$jla$1@news.rol.ru>

Hello, hokiegal99!
You wrote  on Sun, 06 Jul 2003 16:32:37 -0400:

h> I don't understand how to use a loop to keep track of user input. Could
h> someone show me how to do what the program below does with a loop?

h> Thnaks!

h> ----------------------------
h> #Write a program that reads 10 numbers from the user and prints out the
h> sum of those numbers.

h> num0 = input("Enter a number: ")
h> num1 = input("Enter a number: ")
h> num2 = input("Enter a number: ")
h> num3 = input("Enter a number: ")
h> num4 = input("Enter a number: ")
h> num5 = input("Enter a number: ")
h> num6 = input("Enter a number: ")
h> num7 = input("Enter a number: ")
h> num8 = input("Enter a number: ")
h> num9 = input("Enter a number: ")

h> num = num0+num1+num2+num3+num4+num5+num6+num7+num8+num9

h> print num
h> ----------------------------------

=========Beginning of the citation==============
num = 0
for i in xrange(10):
    num=num+input("Enter a number: ")
print num
=========The end of the citation================

With best regards, Egor Bolonev.  E-mail: ebolonev at rol.ru [ru eo en]




From mcherm at mcherm.com  Wed Jul 16 13:39:48 2003
From: mcherm at mcherm.com (Michael Chermside)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 10:39:48 -0700
Subject: anything like C++ references?
Message-ID: <1058377188.3f158de4a3a51@mcherm.com>

Adam Ruth writes:
> I assume that you're referring to people 'faking' pointer in Python (
> such as wrapping variables in lists, etc.)  I'd ammend your statement to 
> say:  
> 
> And the worst thing you can do is to obscure the issue even more by 
> disguising them as something else, WHEN YOU DON'T REALLY HAVE TO.
> 
> In Python, there is no situation where "you really can't avoid pointers".  
> It's only when you program C or C++ in Python that you think you can't 
> avoid pointers.  There are much better idioms to achieve the desired 
> results.

Look, first of all, let me say that I disagree with Stephen Horne in
this discussion. Or, to be more precise, I think that the approach he
is using is not one which is useful in describing Python. HOWEVER,
that doesn't mean that there's NOTHING to what he is saying, and your
claim that there is no situation requiring "pointers" in Python seems
wrong to me.

Actually (to be quite pedantic) it is technically true. For instance,
I could write a program in Python which simulated a turing machine,
and then write the entire program to be executed on THAT. But this
is a meaningless definition for "requiring" a feature -- by this
definition NO feature is ever needed if the language is turing 
equivalent without it... for instance, Python doesn't ever need
classes, modules, dictionarys, or functions (I'm pretty sure a
turing machine could be written which didn't use any of these).

What's more useful is to say that a feature is not "needed" if there's
a straightforward alternate way to handle the situations where it would
normally be used. For instance this (using C++ syntax for "references"):

    def returnsMultipleValues(x, &minusFive, &timesFive):
        """Calculates x+5, x-5, and x*5."""
        *minusFive = x - 5
        *timesFive = x * 5
        return x + 5

Is unnecessary, since this:

    def returnsMultipleValues(x):
        return x + 5, x - 5, x * 5

would work fine. However, there are some places where it IS useful to
be able to modify a value within a routine. I have written code like
this:

     i = [0]
     stuff.append( makeNewComplexObject(i, 'name', 'fred') )
     stuff.append( makeNewComplexObject(i, 'age', 17) )
     stuff.append( makeNewComplexObject(i, 'item') )
     stuff.append( makeNewComplexObject(i, 'item') )

where the source for makeNewComplexObject() went like this:

     def makeNewComplexObject(iBox, objName, *objArgs):
         # increment i
         i = iBox[0]
         iBox[0] += 1

         if objName == 'name':
             # some simple cases
             return new NameObject(*objArgs)
         elif objName == 'age':
             # some complex cases
             yrsOld = objArgs[0]
             if yrsOld >= 18:
                 return new AdultAge(*objArgs)
             else:
                 return new MinorAge(*objArgs)
         elif objName == 'item':
             # some cases that use i
             return new IndexedItem(i)

Now, clearly, this code was inspired by C code which used an
idiom like this:

    i = 0
    stuff[i] = newComplexObject(i++, "name", "fred")
    stuff[i] = newComplexObject(i++, "age", 17)
    stuff[i] = newComplexObject(i++, "item")
    stuff[i] = newComplexObject(i++, "item")

And certainly it *can* be rewritten in Python without "boxing" the
variable i. However, it would also be nice to be ABLE to "box" the
variable i. So it's not as if references would be USELESS in Python.
I just think it'd be better handled differently (one-item list, or
maybe a container class) rather than redefining assignment in Python
as Stephen seems to prefer.[1]

-- Michael Chermside

[1] - Stephen doesn't want to change Python now for historical
   reasons. But my position is that if I were inventing a NEW
   language I'd do it Python's way by choice, because I think
   it's better.





From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Thu Jul 31 08:03:10 2003
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 08:03:10 -0400
Subject: time, calendar, datetime, etc
References: <153fa67.0307300326.45a29380@posting.google.com> <mailman.1059631303.24782.python-list@python.org> <bgaphh$lua$1@news7.svr.pol.co.uk>
Message-ID: <vii1bs70bnio2a@news.supernews.com>

"Ben S" <bens at replytothegroupplease.com> wrote in message
news:bgaphh$lua$1 at news7.svr.pol.co.uk...
> Steven Taschuk wrote:
> > Quoth Kylotan:
> >   [...]
> >> And does datetime.timetuple() actually return something equivalent to
> >> a struct_time as used by the time module? At first glance this looks
> >> to be true, but it isn't clearly documented as such.
> >
> > Isn't it?
> >
> >     timetuple()
> >         Return a 9-element tuple of the form returned by
> > time.localtime().
> >
> > <http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/datetime-datetime.html>
>
> Problem is, time.localtime() doesn't return a 9-element tuple any more,
> it returns a struct_time. (Since 2.2, I think.)

Strictly speaking, that's true, but the object that's returned
*acts* like a sequence of 9 integers if you reference it properly.
It seems like 2.2 did this in a number of places, so that you
could reference values by name. I like the thinking behind it.
It's a lot better documentation if you want to get one value at
a time.

John Roth

>
> --
> Ben Sizer
> http://pages.eidosnet.co.uk/kylotan
>
>





From staschuk at telusplanet.net  Fri Jul 25 17:32:48 2003
From: staschuk at telusplanet.net (Steven Taschuk)
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 15:32:48 -0600
Subject: How safe is modifying locals()?
In-Reply-To: <BDcUa.100193$XV.6037947@twister.austin.rr.com>; from paulpaterson@users.sourceforge.net on Fri, Jul 25, 2003 at 04:10:09PM +0000
References: <BDcUa.100193$XV.6037947@twister.austin.rr.com>
Message-ID: <20030725153248.B205@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>

Quoth Paul Paterson:
  [...]
> Does anyone have any alternative strategies for trying to achieve the 
> objective? A "Pythonic" approach such as,
> 
> def change(x, y):
>     x = x + 1
>     y = y + 1
>     return y
> 
> x = 0; y = 0
> y = change(x, y)
> 
> Works in a single threaded environment but, because the value of 'y' 
> changes at the wrong time, with multiple threads there is a possibility 
> that two users of 'y' could dissagree on its value.

Even if the simple
    y = y + 1
could change the caller's binding, there would be a race condition
-- you'll need a lock anyway.  (I'd be a bit surprised if this
were not so in VB as well.  Are statements atomic in VB?)

-- 
Steven Taschuk                                                   w_w
staschuk at telusplanet.net                                      ,-= U
                                                               1 1




From ben at dadsetan.com  Thu Jul 31 18:21:34 2003
From: ben at dadsetan.com (Behrang Dadsetan)
Date: Fri, 01 Aug 2003 00:21:34 +0200
Subject: Secure FTP in Python?
In-Reply-To: <bgbs1q$6pt$1@ns.felk.cvut.cz>
References: <bgbs1q$6pt$1@ns.felk.cvut.cz>
Message-ID: <bgc4sj$o57$2@online.de>

d z e k y l wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> I'd like to write a small backup utility in Python, which would take
> advantage of Secure FTP to upload backup archives. Is there a library
> implementing SFTP in Python (something like ftplib)? Or is there some other
> (noncomplicated) way how secure uploading can be implemented in Python?
> 
> Thank you for advice,
> Michal
> 
> 
I just read a posting about a new library building a secure tunnel for 
whatever protocol you want. Or at least that is how I understood it 
without looking into it at all :)

So try looking if you can not use stunnel at
http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/213238
+
ftplib

Regards, Ben.




From g2h5dqi002 at sneakemail.com  Wed Jul 16 21:58:13 2003
From: g2h5dqi002 at sneakemail.com (Greg Ewing (using news.cis.dfn.de))
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 13:58:13 +1200
Subject: Confusing automated translators.
In-Reply-To: <Xns93BA2CD86700EJanC@213.118.75.80>
References: <37d6f77c.0307130932.1e3adf0d@posting.google.com> <3f11ac74$0$49101$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl> <ad052e5c.0307131718.4903430d@posting.google.com> <3F12808B.E53193B8@hotmail.com> <mailman.1058189001.18190.python-list@python.org> <3F12CE17.76A0A5@hotmail.com> <16146.53798.759651.430032@montanaro.dyndns.org> <mailman.1058213782.3688.python-list@python.org> <Xns93BA2CD86700EJanC@213.118.75.80>
Message-ID: <bf4u3o$bbdek$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>

JanC wrote:
> Francois Pinard <pinard at iro.umontreal.ca> schreef:
> 
> 
>>   "The firm driver is carrying her."
> 
> 
> Which is a nice example of something that could be misunderstood in 
> English.  ;-)
> 
> (Is the driver strong or does he work for a firm?)

Or should we be directing followups to soc.sexuality.general?-)




From sdementen at hotmail.com  Tue Jul 22 11:31:55 2003
From: sdementen at hotmail.com (Sebastien de Menten)
Date: 22 Jul 2003 08:31:55 -0700
Subject: profile output for kcachegrind ?
Message-ID: <8dad5312.0307220731.5ff69a91@posting.google.com>

Hi,

I am using the profile module to watch hot spots in a python
application.

The default output is already useful but has anyone tried to produce
output readable by kcachegrind (http://kcachegrind.sourceforge.net/) ?

seb



From tim.one at comcast.net  Tue Jul 15 11:18:49 2003
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 11:18:49 -0400
Subject: md5 consistent across platforms/Python versions?
In-Reply-To: <BB399017.29A40%grobinson@transpose.com>
Message-ID: <BIEJKCLHCIOIHAGOKOLHCEPLGEAA.tim.one@comcast.net>

[Gary Robinson]
> I know that hash functions are often platform-dependent for efficiency
> reasons. From what I understand, this includes Python's hash(), which
> I have read is not guaranteed to return the same result across
> platforms or even across Python versions.

Indeed, a Python hash is a (short) Python int, so is a 32-bit value on most
current boxes, but a 64-bit value on most 64-bit boxes.

> Can someone tell me whether an MD5 hash using Python's MD5 library IS
> guaranteed to return the same results for the same input string,
> across platforms and Python versions?

Yes, it's the same, and the same as what you'll get from any other correct
program for computing an MD5 digest from that string.  The same is true of
the longer SHA digests (also available from Python, via the sha module).

> My limited understanding of how MD5 is normally used would seem to
> indicate that this must be the case, but it would be helpful for me
> to have confirmation, since my knowledge in this area is very limited.

It's confirmed, and your knowledge is now closer to unlimited <wink>.





From sandskyfly at hotmail.com  Fri Jul  4 10:34:49 2003
From: sandskyfly at hotmail.com (Sandy Norton)
Date: 4 Jul 2003 07:34:49 -0700
Subject: Some guidance please: A Python multitrack recorder?
References: <pan.2003.07.04.07.15.09.303@home.org>
Message-ID: <b03e80d.0307040634.2310136@posting.google.com>

"Dfenestr8" wrote in message:
 
> I'm no coder. I'm just a working guy who likes to tinker with computers in
> my spare time.
> 
> That's my hobby. My passion is: playing instruments. Combining the two,
> I've made a couple of event driven, GUI controlled progs in Python and
> tKinter before. I made an abc/midi player, using the timidity, and
> abc2midi packages. I also did a metronome, using the Snack sound toolkit.

If you like python and music you may be interested in these links:

- http://csounds.com/
- http://www.csounds.com/stevenyi/blue/

- http://cnmat.cnmat.berkeley.edu/OSC/
- http://galatea.stetson.edu/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/ProctoLogic/ 
- www.stetson.edu/departments/mathcs/students/research/
cs/cs498/2001/danny_clinton/final.pdf

- http://seqdublin.sourceforge.net/

- http://lennart.regebro.nu/music/python-midi/

Have fun,

Sandy



From dale at riverhall.NOSPAM.co.uk  Fri Jul  4 10:31:09 2003
From: dale at riverhall.NOSPAM.co.uk (Dale Strickland-Clak)
Date: 04 Jul 2003 14:31:09 GMT
Subject: Apache mod_python and Sessions
References: <20030704131617.4b1a73ca.scpusenet@werbung.schabi.de>
Message-ID: <Xns93AE9CAB7636Edaleriverhallsystems@192.168.8.150>

Markus Schaber pushed the bounds of literature with:

> Hi,
> 
> Does anybody know a module that works with Apache 1.3 mod_python and
> provides session tracking? 
> 
><Snip> 
> Thanks,
> Markus
> 

This is pretty easy to do by hand using MD5 and a cookie.

-- 
Dale Strickland-Clark
Riverhall Systems Ltd, www.riverhall.co.uk



From mis6 at pitt.edu  Mon Jul 21 14:04:25 2003
From: mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato)
Date: 21 Jul 2003 11:04:25 -0700
Subject: feature request: a better str.endswith
References: <2259b0e2.0307180401.5dae02f2@posting.google.com> <mailman.1058530829.7072.python-list@python.org> <3f17f883$0$49107$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl> <2259b0e2.0307190529.57338b3f@posting.google.com> <NpkSa.16049$7O.14695@nwrdny01.gnilink.net> <2259b0e2.0307200721.16ef2ea1@posting.google.com> <45228044.0307210522.1ef95144@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <2259b0e2.0307211004.56aa9d0a@posting.google.com>

chrisperkins37 at hotmail.com (Chris Perkins) wrote in message news:<45228044.0307210522.1ef95144 at posting.google.com>...
> def the(pred,seq): return True in itertools.imap(pred,seq)

BTW, this suggest to me two short idiomas for multiple "or" and multiple "and",
with shortcut behavior:

def imultior(pred,iterable):
    return True in itertools.imap(pred,iterable)

def imultiand(pred,iterable):
    return not(False in itertools.imap(pred,iterable))

Nevertheless, they seem to be slower than the non-iterator-based
implementation :-( (at least in some preliminary profiling I did
using a list and a custom defined predicate function)

def multiand(pred,iterable):
    istrue=True
    for item in iterable:
        istrue=istrue and pred(item)
        if not istrue: return False
    return True

def multior(pred,iterable):
    istrue=False
    for item in iterable:
        istrue=istrue or pred(item)
        if istrue: return True
    return False

 M.



From skip at pobox.com  Tue Jul 22 09:00:17 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 08:00:17 -0500
Subject: PEP 304, and alternative
In-Reply-To: <2c60a528.0307220408.73c6e740@posting.google.com>
References: <2c60a528.0307220408.73c6e740@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <16157.13665.457639.544695@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    Andrew> haven't seen much discussion on PEP 304 recently, what's its
    Andrew> current status?

Same as before.

    Andrew> It's so broad-brush; PYTHONBYTECODEBASE can only really be set
    Andrew> per-user, and is likely to cause the same problems PYTHONPATH
    Andrew> did (before site-packages and .pth files made all that easier).

Why is this a problem?  It gives the user control over where .pyc files will
be written.  My initial intent was that if users set it at all, it would be
set something like

    PYTHONBYTECODEBASE=$HOME/tmp/python

or

    PYTHONBYTECODEBASE=/tmp/skip/python

    Andrew> The problems with user rights also look really horrid. Say
    Andrew> bytecodebase is /tmp/python/. All users must have write access
    Andrew> to /tmp/python/home, so they can store PYCs for PYs in their
    Andrew> home directory; however if user A hasn't yet run a PY from his
    Andrew> home directory, user B can create /tmp/python/home/A and put a
    Andrew> booby-trapped PYC in, that could be run when user A executes a
    Andrew> script of the same name from /home/A.

This is (minimally) addressed in the Issues section:

    What if PYTHONBYTECODEBASE refers to a general directory (say, /tmp)?
    In this case, perhaps loading of a preexisting bytecode file should
    occur only if the file is owned by the current user or root.

By "general directory" I mean writable by more than just root.

    Andrew> I'd instead like to do it by having a writable mapping in sys
    Andrew> somewhere which can hold a number of directory remappings. This
    Andrew> could then be written to on a site-level basis by
    Andrew> sitecustomize.py and/or a user or module-level basis by user
    Andrew> code. eg.

    Andrew>   sys.bytecodebases= {
    Andrew>     '/home/and/pylib/': '/home/and/pybin/',
    Andrew>     '/www/htdocs/cgi-bin/': '/www/cgi-cache/'
    Andrew>   }

    Andrew> and so on.

How is this better?  How does it address the security problem you raised
above?

    Andrew> Also it avoids the problem of what to do on multi-root
    Andrew> filesystems like that of Windows, as only string matching is
    Andrew> required.

Windows' multi-root filesystem is a known problem.  I've not yet been able
to solve it, though I must admit I haven't worked on it in awhile either.

Skip





From jsd at cluttered.com  Thu Jul  3 18:12:46 2003
From: jsd at cluttered.com (Jon Drukman)
Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 15:12:46 -0700
Subject: Please confirm your message
In-Reply-To: <200307032202.h63M2fTx029756@c10-mail1.cnet.com>
References: <200307032202.h63M2fTx029756@c10-mail1.cnet.com>
Message-ID: <1057270366.14553.TMDA@w024.z064002058.sjc-ca.dsl.cnc.net>

This message was created automatically by mail delivery software (TMDA).

Your message attached below is being held because the address
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To release your message for delivery, please send an empty message
to the following address, or use your mailer's "Reply" feature.

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From cidolfas at rpgclassics.com  Thu Jul 24 18:14:50 2003
From: cidolfas at rpgclassics.com (Daniel Orner)
Date: 24 Jul 2003 15:14:50 -0700
Subject: CGI "download" prompt?
Message-ID: <77dd287a.0307240632.40c6c309@posting.google.com>

Hello,

I'm trying to figure out something... I'm writing a Python CGI system
that (in one aspect) acts as a file system interface by allowing the
user to upload/download files. The uploading is fine, but I'm having
problems with the downloading. I want to have a button that the user
can click and which would then open a "Save File" dialog in the
browser - effectively "serving up" a file for download. Unfortunately,
the files that I'm trying to give the user are HTML files. How do I
make it so the browser prompts to save the file rather than just
display it in the browser?

I specifically want the filename to remain the same, so renaming the
file won't work. Can anybody give me an idea as to how to do this?

Thanks very much!

--Daniel Orner



From jjl at pobox.com  Wed Jul 30 14:31:54 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 30 Jul 2003 19:31:54 +0100
Subject: Syntax: pointers versus value
References: <3F27F673.3000801@mathstat.concordia.ca>
Message-ID: <8765ljx3vp.fsf@pobox.com>

Danny Castonguay <castong at mathstat.concordia.ca> writes:

> Simple question but I can't find the answer.  Using an example:
[...]
> object.  How then, do I duplicate the two objects; ie make a copy of
> the object that listA is pointing to and have listB point to that
> object.
[...]

http://www.python.org/doc/FAQ.html#4.38


John



From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Fri Jul 11 21:37:14 2003
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 11 Jul 2003 21:37:14 -0400
Subject: The "intellectual property" misnomer
References: <mailman.1057951098.31738.python-list@python.org> <slrnbguf7g.q1.bignose-hates-spam@rose.localdomain.fake>
Message-ID: <benooa$1io$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <slrnbguf7g.q1.bignose-hates-spam at rose.localdomain.fake>,
Ben Finney  <bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au> wrote:
>On Fri, 11 Jul 2003 15:13:43 -0400, Guido van Rossum wrote:
>>
>> The PSF holds the intellectual property rights for Python
>
>Ugh.  Please don't propagate this ridiculous, meaningless term.  It's
>used to refer to a wide range of greatly disparate legal concepts; to
>use it as a single term implies that there's some unifying "intellectual
>property" principle joining them together, which is a falsehood.

What Guido probably should have said was something more like, "The PSF
is the holding organization for intellectual property rights for
Python."  The point being that -- eventually, if not now (due to some
current muddles) -- the PSF will hold any and all intellectual property
rights relevant to Python.

While you've got a valid point, it's unnecessarily clumsy to iterate
over all the different forms of intellectual property every time you
mention them.  The idea is that the PSF functions in a manner similar to
the FSF in protecting all the bits of Python from encroachment.  We
don't know -- and can't know -- all the aspects that will be comprised
under that umbrella, as various corporate interests try to stretch the
idea of intellectual property.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"Not everything in life has a clue in front of it...."  --JMS



From nhodgson at bigpond.net.au  Wed Jul 23 04:38:48 2003
From: nhodgson at bigpond.net.au (Neil Hodgson)
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 08:38:48 GMT
Subject: Python and VS.Net
References: <mailman.1058934395.4215.python-list@python.org> <bflf99$aqd$1@slb9.atl.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <sQrTa.9538$OM3.4516@news-server.bigpond.net.au>

Matt Gerrans:

> By the way, just because you compile something with the compiler that
comes
> with .NET doesn't mean it is managed code.

   You can produce managed code rather than x86 code by adding the /clr
command line option. You may also have to fiddle some other options which
are incompatible with /clr.

   Neil





From alia_khouri at yahoo.com  Tue Jul  8 10:22:56 2003
From: alia_khouri at yahoo.com (Alia Khouri)
Date: 8 Jul 2003 07:22:56 -0700
Subject: anything new on the ternary operator?
References: <3F09E4B4.FED89C06@alcyone.com>, <3F09252F.9B0F52BD@alcyone.com>, <mailman.1057533670.9800.python-list@python.org> <beae42$d01$1@panix2.panix.com> <mailman.1057574950.16136.python-list@python.org> <mailman.1057642872.21988.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <40a939c9.0307080622.3118cfd7@posting.google.com>

Moshe Zadka <m at moshez.org> wrote in message 

> On Mon, 07 Jul 2003, Erik Max Francis <max at alcyone.com> wrote:
> 
> > (And, to trump your next response, yes, I know you do not
> > hail from Europe.)
> 
> Ah? Of course I'm from Europe.
> [The consensus in EP was that Israel was in Europe]

Sorry, I am confused: isn't Israel in the Middle East?

Alia



From jjl at pobox.com  Tue Jul 29 17:54:07 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 29 Jul 2003 22:54:07 +0100
Subject: How to properly package/distribute a pure python module?
References: <5ab0af73.0307281045.6cb13cfe@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <87ispl579c.fsf@pobox.com>

MatthewS at HeyAnita.com (Matt Shomphe) writes:

> Are there any guidelines for packaging a pure python module? 
> Specifically, say I have a set of 10 functions, all of varying
> behaviors (no unifying theme to bind them together into clear
> subsets), that I would like to make available to others.  What is the
> best structure for the distributed module?  A single file called
> "functions.py" that people can put in "site-packages"[1]?  A

If it's "the simplest thing that could possibly work" (TM), I'd say
yes, do that.


John



From nicodemus at globalite.com.br  Fri Jul 18 19:19:55 2003
From: nicodemus at globalite.com.br (Nicodemus)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 20:19:55 -0300
Subject: Bug overriding operators in new-style classes?
In-Reply-To: <20030717183133.D931@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>
References: <00cb01c34c96$736685d0$2700000a@esss.com.br> <20030717183133.D931@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>
Message-ID: <3F18809B.70706@globalite.com.br>

Hi Steven,

Steven Taschuk wrote:

>Quoth Nicodemus:
>  
>
>>I found a surprising behavior regarding new-style classes operator lookup.
>>It seems that for operators, the instance methods are ignored. Observe:
>>    
>>
>  [...]
>  
>
>>Is this a bug, or am I missing something? Any help would be appreciated.
>>    
>>
>
>Working as designed, I think [1], though I've never actually seen
>it documented.  As you have observed, invocation of a magic method
>(such as __add__ or __len__) by way of a special notation (such as
>+ or len()) ignores the instance dict.  That is,
>    len(x)
>is not equivalent to
>    x.__len__()
>(which would find __len__ in the instance dict by normal attribute
>access) but to
>    type(x).__len__(x)
>(which obviously ignores the instance dict).
>
>[...]
>
>[1] One reason I think it's intended is that these protocols
>specify a self argument; for new-style classes, this is provided
>by the descriptor machinery, which by design works only when the
>function is found in the class dict.
>  
>

Thanks for the clarification!

Regards,
Nicodemus.






From jerf at jerf.org  Wed Jul 30 23:42:50 2003
From: jerf at jerf.org (Jeremy Bowers)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 03:42:50 GMT
Subject: mixin class
References: <3F24F8D2.E1ADFB08@web.de>
Message-ID: <pan.2003.07.30.23.42.52.754668@jerf.org>

On Mon, 28 Jul 2003 12:20:02 +0200, Udo Gleich wrote:
> My question: How do I implement mixin classes
> with new style classes?

Um, if I understand what you're trying to do correctly, it's easy:

--------------
import random

class A(object): pass
class B(object): pass
class C(object): pass
class D(object): pass

mixin = random.choice([C, D])

class A_B_and_C_or_D(A, B, mixin): pass

newName = A_B_and_C_or_D

newInstance = newName()
----------------

(Warning: Didn't actually type this in)

The classes being derived from can be variable; in fact I do this rather
too frequently for my own good, perhaps. (I tend to use it for class I
want to be intimately involved with each other, but also usable
separately, having one of them dynamically derive from either object or
the other class, depending on whether the other class is available.) 

So in this example, on any given run, class A_B_and_C_or_D will always
derive from A and B, and may derive from either of C or D. 

You can dynamically do this in a loop or something if you're feeling
creative, if you assign the class to new names, as I did here for
"newName". AFAIK there's no way to programmatically create new classes
with generated names without resorting to eval (bad idea), but you can
bind them to new names after creation and that works OK.

----------------

classesILike = {}
for i in range(10):
    class tmp(object): pass
    classesILIke[i] = tmp

----------------

and of course "tmp" may derive from what it will.

The inheritance list is as dynamic as anything else in Python; feel free
to use it that way. Personally I find this is a "killer feature"... you'd
find it hard to describe in advance when you'd want it, but when
you want it, you want it ***badly***, because the kludge will be a
killer... and there are very, very few languages that can do this cleanly
(and still share Python's other benefits).



From martin at v.loewis.de  Mon Jul 21 18:38:25 2003
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-15?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 22 Jul 2003 00:38:25 +0200
Subject: A challenge to the ASCII proponents.
References: <mailman.1058278343.23104.python-list@python.org> <bf167a$pvt$1@panix2.panix.com> <ufzl7rdno.fsf@online.no> <3F142A58.80426AA4@hotmail.com> <2259b0e2.0307161620.4a9353f1@posting.google.com> <Xns93BB246FDDBCFJanC@213.118.75.80> <3F168011.3AEB3EFC@hotmail.com> <3F172442.2040907@v.loewis.de> <oprsg8jf1xttxc4i@news.t-online.de> <3F195CC4.D426E416@hotmail.com> <slrnbhjm31.tp.bignose-hates-spam@rose.localdomain.fake> <3F1AA450.765D07FD@hotmail.com> <slrnbhmt6t.si4.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local> <3F1BB7A3.D4223855@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <m3el0j33q6.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Alan Kennedy <alanmk at hotmail.com> writes:

> I personally don't have the slightest problem with reformulating NNTP
> and POP to use XML instead: In a way, I think it's almost inevitable,
> given how poor our existing "ascii" technologies are at dealing with
> i18n and l10n issues. Emails and usenet posts are all just documents
> after all.
> 
> Would something like this really be so offensive (the Gaelic isn't, I
> promise :-)? Or inefficient?

It would be pointless doing so. All the infrastructure needed to
communicate different encodings in NNTP is already there - no need to
change any protocol at all. The specification part has already been
done. It is called MIME.

What is lacking is the implementations. Just saying "Use XML then"
won't magically make implementations appear.

Regards,
Martin




From intentionally at blank.co.uk  Wed Jul 16 16:07:30 2003
From: intentionally at blank.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 21:07:30 +0100
Subject: anything like C++ references?
References: <b8c3hvsesjoumiboobml3nsnajtha99mp1@4ax.com> <mailman.1058129901.28248.python-list@python.org> <plk3hv0s1m2egf4s34jo6vjedk0q8r2mu9@4ax.com> <hflQa.48826$wk6.12216@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net> <rp94hvc8fg6h91oe7ctqq9jn9ku3nlud1k@4ax.com> <slrnbh6fbc.72v.kamikaze@kuoi.asui.uidaho.edu> <tdo6hvo40qaga46ekamfe65opn2aaa9b41@4ax.com> <slrnbh7l94.mti.kamikaze@kuoi.asui.uidaho.edu> <frn8hvggtom4vqen1s0ktr1hijfm9cvfe7@4ax.com> <3F149C69.7B990210@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <32cbhvkife283kggrn8btlql91eaitmka2@4ax.com>

On Tue, 15 Jul 2003 17:29:29 -0700, Erik Max Francis <max at alcyone.com>
wrote:

>Python does _not_ have copy semantics, it has binding semantics.

As you know, that's precisely what I see as a wart.




From cavada at irst.itc.it  Wed Jul 23 07:46:24 2003
From: cavada at irst.itc.it (Roberto Cavada)
Date: 23 Jul 2003 13:46:24 +0200
Subject: ANN: mvc 0.2.1 released
Message-ID: <1058960784.4097.506.camel@stadio>

A simple Model-View-Controller framework for pygtk2. 
Also, implements the Observer pattern. 

With respect to the previous version, this version provides:
1. Observable properties are simple python class' properties (via
metaclasses)
2. Every class can be an Observer for a model
3. Up-to-date docs and a simple example

The latest version can be found here:
http://sra.itc.it/people/cavada/dload/mvc-0.2.1.tar.gz

rob

-- 
  _/_/_/   _/_/_/   Roberto Cavada                                   
 _/   _/ _/        ITC-irst   http://www.irst.itc.it                 
_/   _/ _/        Automated Reasoning Systems - Formal Methods Group 
/_/_/  _/        Via Sommarive, 18 - 38050 Povo (TN) - Italy         
   _/  _/       Tel: +39 0461 314 328   Fax: +39 0461 302 040        
    _/   _/_/  cavada#irst.itc.it   http://sra.itc.it/people/cavada





From mlh at furu.idi.ntnu.no  Fri Jul 11 06:19:38 2003
From: mlh at furu.idi.ntnu.no (Magnus Lie Hetland)
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 10:19:38 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: mx.DateTime.Parser.DateFromString('crap')
References: <bejgg6$9nq$1@rzmux02.rz.uni-augsburg.de>
Message-ID: <slrnbgt3pq.ck1.mlh@furu.idi.ntnu.no>

In article <bejgg6$9nq$1 at rzmux02.rz.uni-augsburg.de>, Koczian wrote:
[snip]
>Working on Windows I haven't got strptime.

But you can still get it...

  http://py.vaults.ca/apyllo.py?find=strptime

-- 
Magnus Lie Hetland                "In this house we obey the laws of
http://hetland.org                 thermodynamics!"    Homer Simpson



From buzzard at urubu.freeserve.co.uk  Tue Jul 15 15:57:12 2003
From: buzzard at urubu.freeserve.co.uk (Duncan Smith)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 20:57:12 +0100
Subject: bug in my code?
References: <bevl84$880$1@news7.svr.pol.co.uk> <ua-dnfQZuo4_946iXTWJkw@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <bf1m7i$io7$1@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk>

"Terry Reedy" <tjreedy at udel.edu> wrote in message
news:ua-dnfQZuo4_946iXTWJkw at comcast.com...
>
> "Duncan Smith" <buzzard at urubu.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:bevl84$880$1 at news7.svr.pol.co.uk...
> > Greetings.  I am struggling to track down what I presume is a bug in
> my
> > code.  The trouble is that it only raises its head occasionally.  I
> have
> > managed to prune the code to the following:
> >
> > shutTest.py
> > --------------------------------------------------------
> > import cPickle
> >
> > def test2(iterations):
> >     for i in range(iterations):
> >         try:
> >             f = file('C:\\Python22\\(2, 2, 2, 3, 4).shu', 'r')
> >             try:
> >                 dependencies, nodes = cPickle.load(f)
> >             finally:
> >                 f.close()
> >         except IOError:
> >             pass
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Calling the function with a suitable argument (say, 100) doesn't
> usually
> > pose a problem.  The file is opened OK and the data unpickled.  But
> > occasionally (or usually if I call the function with 1000 as
> argument) I get
> > the all too common, on Windows,
> >
> > 'The instruction at {some memory address} referenced memory at {some
> other
> > (and on one occasion the same) memory address}.  The memory could
> not be
> > "read".'
> ...
> This sounds like maybe a hardware problem.
>

Yes.  I can't see any problems with the code (although it wouldn't be the
first time ...).  I can't reproduce the problem on my work machine.

> Is the unpickling necessary to get the error? -- or some discrepancy?
>

It seems so.

> If you simply reread the file over and over, do you always get
> *exactly* the same byte string?  Test this by reading once before the
> loop and comparing subsequent reads to first.

Yes I do.  I haven't been able to reproduce the problem (ie. the crashes, I
fixed the file) by just opening / reading / closing the file.

What I asking is
> whether you might have flacky or overheated disk drive giving
> intermittant errors more often than once a terabyte.
>

Possibly.  Thanks Terry.

Duncan





From theller at python.net  Fri Jul  4 08:58:58 2003
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 14:58:58 +0200
Subject: exit endless python loop in emacs
References: <be3t7m$29nj$1@otis.netspace.net.au>
Message-ID: <1xx6h2i5.fsf@python.net>

"Leo" <leo.broska at NOSPAM.isys.com.au> writes:

> hi all
>
> how can i terminate/stop an  endless python loop which i have started inside
> emacs with C-c C-c.
>
> ta, leo
 C-g

Thomas



From intentionally at blank.co.uk  Wed Jul 16 17:40:23 2003
From: intentionally at blank.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 22:40:23 +0100
Subject: anything like C++ references?
References: <1058377188.3f158de4a3a51@mcherm.com> <mailman.1058377947.32563.python-list@python.org> <3F15A96C.D557570C@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <lfhbhv4rslj948qjskoehujud014vre1cs@4ax.com>

On Wed, 16 Jul 2003 12:37:16 -0700, Erik Max Francis <max at alcyone.com>
wrote:

>Assignments are definitely not sequence points.  But function calls are.
>So the code is well-defined, and is equivalent to
>
>	<temporary> = newComplexObject(i++, "name", "fred");
>	stuff[i] = <temporary>;

Ah - interesting.




From alanmk at hotmail.com  Mon Jul 21 05:51:32 2003
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 10:51:32 +0100
Subject: A challenge to the ASCII proponents.
References: <mailman.1058278343.23104.python-list@python.org> <bf167a$pvt$1@panix2.panix.com> <ufzl7rdno.fsf@online.no> <3F142A58.80426AA4@hotmail.com> <2259b0e2.0307161620.4a9353f1@posting.google.com> <Xns93BB246FDDBCFJanC@213.118.75.80> <3F168011.3AEB3EFC@hotmail.com> <3F172442.2040907@v.loewis.de> <oprsg8jf1xttxc4i@news.t-online.de> <3F195CC4.D426E416@hotmail.com> <slrnbhjm31.tp.bignose-hates-spam@rose.localdomain.fake> <3F1AA450.765D07FD@hotmail.com> <slrnbhmt6t.si4.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>
Message-ID: <3F1BB7A3.D4223855@hotmail.com>

I don't want to go on and on about this, and I'm happy to concede that
some of my points are far from proven, and others are disproven.
However, there are one or two small points I'd like to make.

Ben Finney wrote:

>>> Which quickly leads to "You must use $BROWSER to view this site".
>>> No thanks.

Alan Kennedy wrote:

>> No, that's the precise opposite of the point I was making.

Ben Finney wrote:

> You also stipulated "... from a Usenet post".  Most Usenet readers
> do not handle markup, nor should they.  There are many benefits from
> the fact that posts are plain text, readable by any software that can
> handle character streams;

1. While there may be benefits from posts being plain text, there are
also costs. The cost is a "semantic disconnect", where related
concepts are not searchable, linkable or matchable, because their
character representations are not comparable.

2. I chose the "from a usenet post" restriction precisely because of
the 7-bit issue, because I knew that 8-bit character sets would break
in some places. It was an obstacle course.

> parsing a markup tree for an article is a whole order
> of complexity that I'd rather not have in my newsreader.
>
> Expecting people to use a news reader that attempts to parse markup
> and render the result, is like expecting people to use an email reader
> that attempts to parse markup and render ther result.  Don't.

I don't expect people's newsreaders or email clients to start parsing
embedded XML (I nearly barfed when I saw Microsoft's "XML Data
Islands" for the first time).

What I'm really concerned about is the cultural impact. I voluntarily
maintain a web site for an organisation that has members in 26
countries, who not surprisingly have lots of non-ASCII characters in
their names. Here's one:

http://www.paratuberculosis.org/members/pavlik.htm

Because of the ASCII restriction in URLs, I was only able to offer Dr.
Pavl?k the above uri, or this:

http://www.paratuberculosis.org/members/pavl%EDk.htm

which sucks.

Little wonder then that the next generation are choosing to explicitly
remove the accents from their names, i.e. his colleague Dr. Machackova
explicitly asked to have the accents in her name removed. Although I
assured her that her name would be correctly spelled, on web sites
that I maintain, the fact that her name breaks continually with
various ASCII centric technologies makes her think it's not worth the
hassle, or worth the risk of searches for her name failing.

http://www.paratuberculosis.org/members/machackova.htm

And what about Dr. Sigur?ard?ttir, Dr. Dj?nne, and Dr. de la Cruz
Dom?nguez Punaro? Are they destined to be passed over more often than
ASCII-named people?

[BTW, I've written the above in "windows-1252", apologies if it gets
mangled]

Solely because of technical inertia, and unwillingness to address the
(perhaps excessive) complexity of our various communications layers,
i.e. our own "Tower of 7-bit Babel", we're suppressing cultural
diversity, for no technically valid reason.

I personally don't have the slightest problem with reformulating NNTP
and POP to use XML instead: In a way, I think it's almost inevitable,
given how poor our existing "ascii" technologies are at dealing with
i18n and l10n issues. Emails and usenet posts are all just documents
after all.

Would something like this really be so offensive (the Gaelic isn't, I
promise :-)? Or inefficient?

#begin---------
<?xml version="1.0" encoding="windows-1252"?>
<xnntp>
  <subject>An mhaith l'?inne dul go dt? an nGaillimh D?
Domhnaigh?</subject>
  <from>al?in ? cinn?ide</from>
  <to>na cail?n? agus na buachaill?</to>
</xnntp>
#end-----------

--
alan kennedy
-----------------------------------------------------
check http headers here: http://xhaus.com/headers
email alan:              http://xhaus.com/mailto/alan



From duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk  Thu Jul  3 11:07:22 2003
From: duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk (Duncan Booth)
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 15:07:22 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Python - get key pressing ?
References: <mailman.1057217886.5423.python-list@python.org> <3F043A1F.81E6CA6@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <Xns93ADA2B616AB2duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in
news:3F043A1F.81E6CA6 at engcorp.com: 

> Krisztian Kepes wrote:
>> 
>> I want to create an py program what process datas for long time.
>> But: I want to abort it if I need.
>> Not with Ctrl+Break !
> 
> Why not?  Ctrl+Break, or more typically Ctrl-C, is the de facto
> standard approach for terminating a console (non-GUI) application.
> 
>> If I push a key (B, or other), the script must stop his work, and
>> save the result created before.
> 
> In this case, just wrap the code with a "try/except KeyboardInterrupt"
> and put your "stop and save" code in the except block.  (Note that
> Ctrl-Break will bypass this, but Ctrl-C is caught as you would
> expect.) 

Assuming we are talking about the Windows platform here.
If you want to catch Ctrl-Break as well (and have a resonably recent 
version of Python), you just need to do this:

    import signal
    signal.signal(signal.SIGBREAK, signal.default_int_handler)

and now pressing Ctrl-Break throws KeyboardInterrupt (in your application's 
main thread only).

Of course the problem with handling the KeyboardInterrupt exception is that 
your data might not be in a suitable state for saving when the exception is 
thrown. Also (at least on Windows) it doesn't interrupt a socket call, so 
if you are using sockets you have to wait for a timeout. What I prefer to 
do is to start the main processing in a background, daemon thread. The main 
thread then just waits (by calling sleep for a short time) for the 
KeyboardInterrupt. When the interrupt is raised you can then try to 
communicate with the background thread in a more orderly fashion, either by 
sending it a message or by using a Lock() around access to the data you 
want to save.

Here's an example of what I mean. The code below runs an XMLRPC server 
under windows but control break allows the system to shut down properly, 
closing files etc. This code didn't have locking around the XMLRPC 
requests, it should have because then the main thread could make sure it 
didn't shut down mid request, but it wasn't a big issue here.

def RunXMLRPCServer():
    """Run the XMLRPCServer, but do so in a different thread.
    The main thread simply sleeps so that it can respond to Ctrl+Break
    """
    def XMLRPCThread():
        server = SimpleXMLRPCServer.SimpleXMLRPCServer(('127.0.0.1', 8888))
        server.register_instance(MyXMLServer())
        server.serve_forever()

    import threading
    th = threading.Thread(target=XMLRPCThread)
    th.setDaemon(1)
    th.start()
    # Make ctrl+break raise a KeyboardInterrupt exception.
    signal.signal(signal.SIGBREAK, signal.default_int_handler)
    try:
        while 1:
            time.sleep(0.1)
    except KeyboardInterrupt:
        log.info("Break pressed.")


-- 
Duncan Booth                                             duncan at rcp.co.uk
int month(char *p){return(124864/((p[0]+p[1]-p[2]&0x1f)+1)%12)["\5\x8\3"
"\6\7\xb\1\x9\xa\2\0\4"];} // Who said my code was obscure?



From rimbalaya at yahoo.com  Mon Jul 28 11:08:19 2003
From: rimbalaya at yahoo.com (Rim)
Date: 28 Jul 2003 08:08:19 -0700
Subject: using extended built-in types
References: <6f03c4a5.0306291248.325e5ecc@posting.google.com> <m3u1a8utbd.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <mailman.1056959572.10194.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <6f03c4a5.0307280708.28e5e8c8@posting.google.com>

> If only ;)
> 
> If your tolerance for evil is sufficiently high, you could use intrinisics,
> a hack by Jp Calderone...
>     
> PyCon lightning talk: 
>     http://www.intarweb.us:8080/PyCon/intrinsics-lightning-0.xhtml
> 
> Source:
>     http://www.intarweb.us:8080/evil/intrinsics.c

The links do not work.

Thanks,
-Rim



From gumuz at looze.net  Wed Jul  9 04:14:24 2003
From: gumuz at looze.net (Guyon Morée)
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 10:14:24 +0200
Subject: slightly off-topic
Message-ID: <3f0bce25$0$13804$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net>

as I recently found 'ctypes' I am looking for some cool dll's to wrap with
ctypes. I am specifically keen on finding video/audio libraries, but a link
to a website with a collection of all kinds of libraries would be even
better.


regards,

guyon





From mis6 at pitt.edu  Tue Jul 29 10:00:36 2003
From: mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato)
Date: 29 Jul 2003 07:00:36 -0700
Subject: pretty printing graphs
References: <mailman.1059442842.18334.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <2259b0e2.0307290600.2c2a14e1@posting.google.com>

Here is an enhanced version that also draws the metaclass instantiation
relationship:

import os

def label(i,n):
    if n>1: return '[label="%s"]' % (i+1)
    return ""

def dotMRO(cls):
    "Generate the dot code for the MRO directed graph"
    yield "digraph MRO_of_%s{\n" % cls.__name__
    for c in cls.__mro__:
        n=len(c.__bases__)
        yield ' '.join([
            '    edge [style=solid]; %s -> %s %s;' %
            (b.__name__,c.__name__,label(i,n))
            for i,b in enumerate(c.__bases__)])
        if type(c) is not type:  yield \
           '  edge [style=dashed]; %s -> %s;' % (type(c).__name__,c.__name__)
    yield '}'

class M(type): pass
O=object
class F(O): pass
class E(O): pass
class D(O): pass
class G(O): __metaclass__=M
class C(F,D,G): pass
class B(E,D): pass
class A(B,C): pass

dotcode='\n'.join(dotMRO(A)); print dotcode
os.system('echo "%s" | dot -Tps > prova.ps' % dotcode)
os.system('gv prova.ps&')

See the graph at

http://www.phyast.pitt.edu/~micheles/prova.ps

Here I had a problem due to my lack of knowledge of "dot":
class C inherits from F,D and G (in this order, see the labels
1,2,3). However, "dot" draws D before F and, without looking
at the labels, one would think that D comes before F, which
is not the case. IOW, the line FC should cross the line DC,
and the F-arrow should be on the left of the D-arrow.
Is there any way of fixing that? 

TIA,


                        Michele



From vze4rx4y at verizon.net  Sat Jul 12 00:29:04 2003
From: vze4rx4y at verizon.net (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 04:29:04 GMT
Subject: The "intellectual property" misnomer
References: <mailman.1057978117.8939.python-list@python.org> <slrnbgv1c7.q1.bignose-hates-spam@rose.localdomain.fake>
Message-ID: <k8MPa.1892$3G5.1669@nwrdny03.gnilink.net>

> >> If the PSF holds the copyright to Python, please say that.
> >> If the PSF holds patents which cover Python, please say that.
> >> If the PSF owns the trademark for Python, please say that.
> >> If the PSF has trade secrets in Python, please say that.
> >
> > So you somehow managed to divine Guido's intent from that "ridiculous,
> > meaningless term"
>
> No, I requested that the term be clarified, because *I don't* know what
> is meant by "The PSF holds the intellectual property rights for Python".
> It's a meaningless statement as it stands.

PSF is the copyright holder and issuer of the python license to the
code covered by that copyright.  Type license() at the command
prompt to see the elaboration using terms that *do* have meaning
to the legal types who helped craft and vette the wording.

In layman's terms, it means exactly what Guido said.

Hope this helps,


Raymond Hettinger





From pyth at devel.trillke.net  Tue Jul  8 05:32:19 2003
From: pyth at devel.trillke.net (holger krekel)
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 11:32:19 +0200
Subject: path module
In-Reply-To: <1057651068.5348.386.camel@lothlorien>; from ianb@colorstudy.com on Tue, Jul 08, 2003 at 02:57:49AM -0500
References: <1057651068.5348.386.camel@lothlorien>
Message-ID: <20030708113219.H6906@prim.han.de>

Ian Bicking wrote:
> I think Jason Orendorff's path module is really nice:
>   http://www.jorendorff.com/articles/python/path/

Yes, looks nice. 

> Beats the hell out of os.path, which is an ugly thing indeed.  The OO
> interface means you could use the interface nicely to implement other
> things, like URLs.  The problem?  It's just some module.  The various os
> functions (of which path replaces quite a few) have become idiomatic to
> me, and I'm sure others as well.  I find myself reluctant to use it in
> code that's not essentially private, because it's changing something
> small and seemingly trivial, and people won't be familiar with it.
> 
> The solution?  It should be a builtin!  Or, if not a builtin, included
> in the os module.  But I actually like the idea of it being a builtin --
> if open is a builtin, path stands right up there too.  It would get rid
> of 90% of the use of the os module.
> 
> Thoughts?  Reactions?

I agree that something like Jason Orendorff's path module should go into
the standard library.  I've coded a similar module and i think that
a discussion about certain design decisions would probably improve our
approaches. 

For example Jason lets the "path" object inherit from "str" (or unicode)
but i think it's better to provide a "__str__" method so that you can say

    str(pathinstance).endswith('.py')

and *not* base the path object on str/unicode. 

    unicode(pathinstance)

would just fail if your platform doesn't support this.  First, i tried
the inheritance approach, btw, but it is ambigous (e.g. for the
join-method (str.join and os.path.join).  

Also, my module provides most of the os.path.* methods as "filters" so
you can say

    dirs = filter(isdir, list_obj_pathobjects)
    fnames = filter(AND(nolink, isfile), list_obj_pathobjects)

in addition to

    pathobject.isfile()
    etc.

Recently, i also did some experimentation with "virtual-fs" features so 
that you can transparently access http/ftp/svn files/directories.  I even 
got that to work with "<tab>-completion" but that was quite a hack :-)

I am pretty sure that virtual-fs-like-extensibility would be a big 
"selling" point and would motivate the use of such a module and
finally the inclusion into the stdlib. Of course, the local-fs should
be the convenient case but it shouldn't be hard to use the same methods 
for accessing remote "repositories". 

Anyway, i am all for going in this direction and would probably 
like to participate in such a development and design effort. 

cheers,

    holger




From alanmk at hotmail.com  Tue Jul 22 06:25:58 2003
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 11:25:58 +0100
Subject: good python book
References: <3f1cbbda_6@news.athenanews.com>
Message-ID: <3F1D1136.AFB8CFA9@hotmail.com>

anonymous at coolgroups.com wrote:

> i'm looking to start learning python.  could someone
> recommend a good beginner's book for me?

Plenty of useful and free introductory material here:-

http://www.python.org/doc/Newbies.html

And not a flattened dead tree in sight.

-- 
alan kennedy
-----------------------------------------------------
check http headers here: http://xhaus.com/headers
email alan:              http://xhaus.com/mailto/alan



From bokr at oz.net  Tue Jul 29 15:22:50 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 29 Jul 2003 19:22:50 GMT
Subject: variable assignment in "while" loop
References: <slrnbicoqq.6gh.sybrenUSE@sybren.thirdtower.com>
Message-ID: <bg6hia$oje$0@216.39.172.122>

On 29 Jul 2003 12:08:50 GMT, Sybren Stuvel <sybrenUSE at YOURthirdtower.imagination.com> wrote:

>Hi there,
>
>Is it possible to use an assignment in a while-loop? I'd like to do
>something like "loop while there is still something to be read, and if
>there is, put it in this variable". I've been a C programmer since I
>was 14, so a construct like:
>
>while info = mydbcursor.fetchone():
>	print "Information: "+str(info)
>
>comes to mind. Unfortunately, this doesn't work. Is there a similar
>construct in python?
>
I thought of a little variation on the list comprehension hack that is usually advised against:

    while [info for info in [mydbcursor.fetchone()] if info]:
        print "Information: %s" % info

I sort of like the mnemonic of the if info that makes the while
see [] at the end rather than e.g. [None][0]

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From timr at probo.com  Sun Jul 13 00:55:39 2003
From: timr at probo.com (Tim Roberts)
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 21:55:39 -0700
Subject: wxPython - question
References: <slrnbgre73.fld.pipen@beast.tu.kielce.pl>
Message-ID: <3cp1hvgjkfeih2k3f0mo0he7mn4lmt7u7q@4ax.com>

"Artur M. Piwko" <pipen at beast_tu_kielce.pl> wrote:

>How can I remove program entry from taskbar (not tray)?

PLEASE resist the temptation to built Yet Another Tray Application.  Win32
programmers seem to use the tray icons as a sign of their guruness, and
every one of them seems to think that his application is so studly that it
must occupy permanent real estate on my desktop.  I've seen some trays that
bloat to 20 or 30 icons.

Don't do it.  Your application just isn't that important.  If you need to
notify me of something, I find nothing wrong with a good old-fashioned
dialog box.
-- 
- Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
  Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.



From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Jul 29 07:24:47 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 07:24:47 -0400
Subject: How to detect typos in Python programs
References: <ZPaUa.6$gZ.133@news.oracle.com> <3F214977.AEB088C8@engcorp.com> <x+VI/ks/K/yd089yn@the-wire.com> <HigUa.9$gZ.31@news.oracle.com> <877k64c0qo.fsf@pobox.com> <vnWUa.7$Sq2.194@news.oracle.com>
Message-ID: <3F26597F.9B589160@engcorp.com>

Manish Jethani wrote:
> 
> There's a difference between my "abost()" example and the "56"
> example.  There's no function called abost anywhere in the
> program text, so I should be able to detect the error with
> static analysis.  Even in C, the compiler warns about stray
> function calls.

You don't understand the dynamic nature of Python if you
think this is something that is either easy or 100% reliable.

Very contrived but instructive example:

def func(x):
   pass

import sys
setattr(sys, 'ab' + 'ost', func)

stick-that-in-your-static-analyzer-and-smoke-it-ly y'rs
-Peter



From ianb at colorstudy.com  Thu Jul 17 23:18:30 2003
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: 17 Jul 2003 22:18:30 -0500
Subject: list() coercion
In-Reply-To: <AZyRa.3985$0F4.3207@nwrdny02.gnilink.net>
References: <mailman.1058400718.22076.python-list@python.org>
	 <AZyRa.3985$0F4.3207@nwrdny02.gnilink.net>
Message-ID: <1058498310.11511.1308.camel@lothlorien>

On Thu, 2003-07-17 at 10:08, Raymond Hettinger wrote:
> Instead of:
> 
>     list(yourobj)
> 
> use:
> 
>     list(iter(yourobj))

Sigh... that's too bad.  I'll probably just get rid of the __len__
method instead, as list(yourobj) (list(myobj)?) is a more appealing
idiom than len(somebodysobj).

  Ian






From ulope at gmx.de  Fri Jul 18 21:31:24 2003
From: ulope at gmx.de (Ulrich Petri)
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 03:31:24 +0200
Subject: Calling python from asp
References: <3f17dc2c@cpns1.saic.com>
Message-ID: <bfa6uk$cdshr$1@ID-67890.news.uni-berlin.de>

"BDM" <viffer750 at hotmail.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:3f17dc2c at cpns1.saic.com...
> Greetings,
> I'm having a difficult time calling a python module from within ASP.  I
have
> narrowed the problem down the very beginning of my code, where I'm
> attempting to import a method.  Below is a snippet of the code
>
> import sys
> print 'Imported Sys'
> from pscape.xml.handler import pscape_xml_parser
> print  'Imported XML Parser'
>
> The import sys statement works fine.  The import of pscape_xml_parser is
> failing. pscape.xml.handler is within my site-packages directory.  I have
> checked  python's sys.path from within ASP, and
> c:\python22\lib\site-packages is in the path.  This code runs fine when
> executed from within the python interpreter, but not when called from ASP.
>
> Any idea what I'm doing wrong here?  I'm sure it must be something very
> simple.  I'm running this under Windows2000 Server, IIS5.0, Python 2.2.2,
> and win32all-150.

perhaps the webservers user (Normaly IUSR_......) has no rights to access
the files within site-packages?

Ciao Ulrich





From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sun Jul  6 20:20:54 2003
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 6 Jul 2003 20:20:54 -0400
Subject: Newbie Question: Abstract Class in Python
References: <5U2Oa.239646$jp.6482027@twister.southeast.rr.com>
Message-ID: <beaed6$e71$1@panix2.panix.com>

In article <5U2Oa.239646$jp.6482027 at twister.southeast.rr.com>,
Kevin Bass <kbass1 at nc.rr.com> wrote:
>
>I am new to Python and want to know how to implement an abstract
>class? I have read through different books and I have no found this
>information.  Thanks!

Simple answer: you don't.  Python doesn't really have that concept.  If
you tell us what you're trying to do, we can explain how to do that in
Python.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"Not everything in life has a clue in front of it...."  --JMS



From pyth at devel.trillke.net  Sat Jul 26 03:49:09 2003
From: pyth at devel.trillke.net (holger krekel)
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 09:49:09 +0200
Subject: path module
In-Reply-To: <TxkUa.8061$Nh3.45265186@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com>; from news@exultants.org on Sat, Jul 26, 2003 at 01:10:11AM +0000
References: <1057651068.5348.386.camel@lothlorien> <20030708113219.H6906@prim.han.de> <mailman.1057686613.6463.python-list@python.org> <11234c14.0307211016.344d40bc@posting.google.com> <mailman.1059144006.6426.python-list@python.org> <just-8DDA38.17221725072003@news1.news.xs4all.nl> <mailman.1059151446.8466.python-list@python.org> <TxkUa.8061$Nh3.45265186@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <20030726094909.S6906@prim.han.de>

Van Gale wrote:
> holger krekel wrote:
> > Yes, i think adding platform specific methods to a Path object makes sense.  
> > A friend and me started working on (local and subversion) Path 
> > implementations last week.  
> > ...
> 
> Interesting, I started a project modifying Jason's Path module to work 
> on subversion trees as well.  I didn't get too far before putting the 
> project on a back-burner so I'm glad to hear someone else is thinking 
> the same way :)

It's even working although i am not sure we stay with the
subversion-python bindings as they are fragile and incomplete at places. 
We might switch to using the commandline "svn" utility for the time beeing.  
 
> My extensions to Path included an additional argument to "open" that 
> included a version number, and a mechanism for retrieving some kind of 
> "metadata" associated with the file.

We instantiate the Path like so

    path = SvnPath('http://codespeak.net/svn/vpath/trunk/dist', rev=X)

where X is either -1 (default) meaning it should grab the latest
revision or some positive revision number.  When you 'visit' or
'listdir' or 'open' on that 'path' you stay in the same revision
and thus get a consistent view.  this is obviously a nice property. 
Btw, via the above URL you'll get our current implementation with 
lots of unittests.  You currently need subversion-python-bindings 
which are not exactly easy to get going unless you already have a 
server-side install.

> I also made another Path module that implements a "poor mans cms" if 
> subversion/rcs/cvs are not available.  It uses hidden files with version 
> numbers in the filename to emulate a real version control system.

I thought about this too.  Right now we just want to make it easy and
complete enough. 

cheers,

    holger




From gumuz*NOSP at M*looze.net  Wed Jul 16 18:18:46 2003
From: gumuz*NOSP at M*looze.net (Guyon Morée)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 00:18:46 +0200
Subject: IMAP examples
Message-ID: <3f15cf46$0$45389$1b62eedf@news.wanadoo.nl>

I can't seem to find any decent examples on how to use the IMPALIB module.
the docs aren't that sophisticated unfortunately.... the cookbook entry
comes close, but i'd like to know if someone knows some nice examples
somewhere.

thanx
guyon





From intentionally at blank.co.uk  Sun Jul 13 22:24:28 2003
From: intentionally at blank.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 03:24:28 +0100
Subject: Qualified appology (was Re: anything like C++ references?)
References: <b8c3hvsesjoumiboobml3nsnajtha99mp1@4ax.com> <mailman.1058129901.28248.python-list@python.org> <plk3hv0s1m2egf4s34jo6vjedk0q8r2mu9@4ax.com> <m365m6ul5c.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <1br3hv4434gn7p2pdg1bgtg8dtlak3id3s@4ax.com>

Appols for changing the subject while still staying in the same topic
- I just wanted to highlight this over my earlier boneheaded posts.

This is a post of heavily qualified appologies. In summary, I've been
thick-headed but I still believe that Python is doing the wrong thing.

I hope I've actually achieved a degree of sanity on this attempt ;-)


On 14 Jul 2003 00:17:19 +0200, martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. L?wis)
wrote:

>Stephen Horne <intentionally at blank.co.uk> writes:
>
>> 1.  Why are dictionarys called dictionaries (rather than references to
>> dictionarys or whatever)? Similar for lists and class instances.
>
>Because they are the values themselves, instead of being references to
>values. These values (like all other values) are objects, though,
>which means they have identity, state, and behaviour.

I've said my piece on meanings derived from computer science (and in
turn from mathematics, as it happens - variables as placeholders for
values predate electronic computers by quite some time.

People have tried to point out that copy-on-write is redundant for
immutable objects, but I've been too thick-headed. Sorry for that.

Even so, you can think of immutable objects as achieving 'expected'
assignment semantics simply because they are immutable. That does not
apply to mutable objects. So you can claim that Python behaviour is
consistent within itself, but only by claiming that it is consistently
different from this 'expected' behaviour.

Some people have already said that the word 'expected' is a fallacy -
that computer science doesn't have fixed definitions for these things.
Some have already named various languages which deviate in similar
ways in either some or all cases. But these languages are actually
deviating, either by convention or (in older cases) due to the
limitations of past machines. That's not the same thing as saying they
are doing 'the right thing' or that the computer science definitions
don't exist - all it means is that a lot of programmers who are
experienced in certain languages are familiar with this error-prone
system and used to compensating for its problems. But a modern
high-level language should do 'the right thing' - it should not be the
programmers job to make allowances for an outdated workaround designed
to give maximum performance by default on old machines irrespective of
reliability.

>> 2.  Why are the values of mutable objects always forced to be accessed
>> via a pointer (or reference or whatever)?
>
>Because all variables are references to objects.

All variables are implemented as references, but that is not the same
as saying that all values are references. As Guidos own words reveal
(I already posted the link twice) the purpose of using immutables
tuples is performance optimisation to save copying while still
defending against against accidental mutation (ie it provides the
computer theory standard assignment semantics efficiently).

The same rationale should equally apply to all types, including the
mutable types.

In particular, it should apply to class instances. I shouldn't need to
create separate mutable and immutable variants of classes to get this
as the mutability of content should be the decision of the container
rather than the content. I shouldn't need to force copying of class
instances in the container for the exact same reason that Guido
highlights for tuples.

Guidos own example is actually quite bug prone in its own way. It
behaves differently depending on whether you pass in the point values
as tuples or lists. That is potentially a subtle, intermittent,
hard-to-trace error waiting to happen. You can say 'validation' all
you want. I did that back in the PEP238 days, and didn't get much
support. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

>> This excuse is, as I already said, invalid.
>
>Which excuse? You have only listed questions in this message, not
>excuses.

Looking back, I was unfair to Tim Peters. The 'excuse' was percieved
(mainly because I'm frustrated trying to get my point across, and
because a circularity that arose (unless I was thick-headed about that
too) in another post. I said 'if a then b', someone said 'no - a is
wrong because c', I said 'ah, but if c then d' and the reply to that
was 'no - c is wrong because a' - or at least I think that's what
happened. Possibly I just need some sleep.

I thought Tim was also guilty of this, but looking back I was wrong.
Sorry, Tim.

However, revisiting his post I still disagree with it...

"""
It's deliberate and thoroughly consistent.  Any assignment semantics
are
error-prone in some contexts, though (Python's included -- side
effects are
like that).  The simplicity and absolute consistency of Python-style
assignment semantics are probably easiest for first-time programmers
to pick
up, and certainly dead easy for people coming from Lisp (etc) to pick
up --
people coming from C (etc) often struggle with inappropriate
expectations at
first.
"""

At first glance it looked like Tim was saying 'its all assignment
semantics rather than type semantics', hence my misjudging him. But
one way or the other, there is an inconsistency between the behaviour
of mutable objects and the computer science definitions of 'variable',
'value' and 'assignment' which does not arise for immutable objects
(note careful wording - see earlier apology). Having copy-on-write for
all objects (obviously the actual copying never happening for
immutables) would be both fully self-consistent and consistent with
the computer science definitions. The lack of this definitely does
cause both confusion and errors.

I also disagree with Tims statement that "Any assignment semantics are
error-prone in some contexts". OK, mistakes can be made with any
syntax for anything, but in the context of this discussion it is
perfectly possible to get the best of both worlds.

Make pointers/references explicit and make all assignments
'copy-on-write', and as I said earlier you get both mutability
protection by default for all types and the ability to reference any
type indirectly. Avoid the problems that make pointers in C, C++,
Pascal etc so unreliable and, while perceptions of pointers as being
inherently bug prone may persist they would be irrational - having
pointers explicitly for all types would at worst be as bug prone as
the existing situation where implicit references exist, and in
particular where mutable types get abused to fake pointer/reference
capabilities. It needs extra notation, but when mutables are used to
fake pointers there is extra notation anyway - misleading notation.

I'm not an anti-side-effect fanatic. I just don't want them to happen
by default, and I don't have to worry about this every time I use a
mutable type. And there really is no need for that to happen.




From m at moshez.org  Mon Jul  7 13:53:15 2003
From: m at moshez.org (Moshe Zadka)
Date: 7 Jul 2003 17:53:15 -0000
Subject: anything new on the ternary operator?
In-Reply-To: <hEaC/kKkXUtC092yn@gnosis.cx>
References: <hEaC/kKkXUtC092yn@gnosis.cx>, <3F09252F.9B0F52BD@alcyone.com>,
 <mailman.1057533670.9800.python-list@python.org>
 <beae42$d01$1@panix2.panix.com>
 <mailman.1057574950.16136.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <20030707175315.31444.qmail@green.zadka.com>

[Moshe Zadka]
|I'm sorry, I was going to let this slide by, but this comment made it
|impossible. How the hell do you figure EuroPython, the biggest Python
|conference in Europe and largely equivalent to the size of PyCon, is a
|"local" conference?
 
[Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters]
> Yeah, but Donald Rumsfeld has let us 'merkins know that Old Europe is
> now irrelevant.  What could be more clear?

Well, to be quite honest, there were some "New Europe" attendees. The
most excellent Lithuanians, and yours truly.
-- 
Moshe Zadka -- http://moshez.org/
Buffy: I don't like you hanging out with someone that... short.
Riley: Yeah, a lot of young people nowadays are experimenting with shortness.
Agile Programming Language -- http://www.python.org/




From alanmk at hotmail.com  Tue Jul 15 12:22:48 2003
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 17:22:48 +0100
Subject: [OT] sentances with two meanings
References: <mailman.1058278343.23104.python-list@python.org> <bf167a$pvt$1@panix2.panix.com> <ufzl7rdno.fsf@online.no>
Message-ID: <3F142A58.80426AA4@hotmail.com>

Syver Enstad wrote:

> > Given the biblical meaning of "known", this could have even more than
> > two meanings :-)
> 
> Does "to know" in english also mean to feel someone? In my own language
> the direct translation of the english know also means to feel. I could
> say (translated) "I know the cold", meaning I feel the cold
> weather.

To "know" someone, in the biblical sense, is to have "carnal
knowledge" of them, i.e. "knowledge of the flesh", i.e. to have had
sexual relations with them.

Some of the English translations of the bible use terms such as "And
Adam knew Eve, and Eve begat 2 children", etc, etc. These translations
are probably from the middle ages, or earlier.

-- 
alan kennedy
-----------------------------------------------------
check http headers here: http://xhaus.com/headers
email alan:              http://xhaus.com/mailto/alan



From http  Mon Jul 28 04:04:30 2003
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 28 Jul 2003 01:04:30 -0700
Subject: Checking whether bool is a type
References: <3F2442B2.E660E97@jandecaluwe.com> <FH-dnQC8AsEa2rmiXTWJiQ@comcast.com> <2e5a8637.0307272216.5adba17d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <7xfzkrcc1d.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

jan at jandecaluwe.com (Jan Decaluwe) writes:
> > If all you care about is differentiating between 2.2 and 2.3, yes.
> > But this raises NameError, I believe, on earlier verisons without
> > 'bool' builtin.  What is wrong with using sys.version[:3] >= '2.3'?
> > (Anyone - has sys.version always been around?)
> 
> Nothing - I do a general version check like that on 2.2
> because I need generators. 

You could try "type(1==1) == type(1)"



From staschuk at telusplanet.net  Sat Jul 12 15:09:36 2003
From: staschuk at telusplanet.net (Steven Taschuk)
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 13:09:36 -0600
Subject: Python Mystery Theatre -- Episode 1:  Exceptions
In-Reply-To: <3F0FED18.E88DC91A@alcyone.com>; from max@alcyone.com on Sat, Jul 12, 2003 at 04:12:24AM -0700
References: <UiOPa.3259$Y92.1224@nwrdny01.gnilink.net> <3F0FC088.3C56EDEA@alcyone.com> <3F0FD848.849E5D88@engcorp.com> <3F0FED18.E88DC91A@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <20030712130936.A385@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>

Quoth Erik Max Francis:
  [...]
> But, as I recall, PEP 317 was outright rejected, so it looks like this
> will be with us for a long time.

It was indeed rejected, primarily on the grounds that its putative
benefit did not justify the cost of migration.  In the end, even I
(the PEP author) agree with that assessment.

I still believe, however, that the implicit instantiation which
Raymond's Acts II and III illustrate is a wart, fully deserves
inclusion in Python Mystery Theatre, and, as a matter of style,
should usually be avoided.  Of course, ...

> I personally have never had a problem with the distinction, raise C, x
> always seemed fairly clean to me even though really what you mean is
> raise C(x).

... opinions vary.  Guido, for example, was not convinced by the
PEP's arguments that implicit instantiation is a Bad Thing.  (Note
that even if he had been, the migration cost would still have sunk
the PEP.)

After being rejected, the PEP grew the section
    <http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0317.html#summary-of-discussion>
which briefly discusses these points and others.

-- 
Steven Taschuk                                                 o- @
staschuk at telusplanet.net                                      7O   )
                                                               "  (




From someone at somewhere.com  Sun Jul 27 10:21:35 2003
From: someone at somewhere.com (reh)
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 14:21:35 GMT
Subject: eric3, pyqt, qscintilla - guru needed. 
References: <tKPUa.121681$Io.10389062@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <PdRUa.121775$Io.10395818@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>

reh wrote:

> Have installed on Redhat 9.0 in the following order;
> 
> Qscintilla
> sip
> PyQt
> 
> When I install eric3 (python install.py), I get this error;
>   Sorry, please install QScintilla and/or reinstall
>   PyQt with QScintilla support.
> 
> It seems the errors occurs in the install.py file at:
>   from qtext import QextScintilla
> 
> From qtext.py, I have typed in at the python prompt;
>   >>> import libsip               # ok here
>   >>> from qt import QWidet       # ok here
>   >>> from qt import QObject      # ok here
>   >>> from qt import QPrinter     # ok here
>   >>> import libqtextc            # error here
>   Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
>   ImportError: libqscintilla.so.2: cannot open shared object file: No such
> file or directory
>   >>>
> 
> Been through all readme files, tried just about everything.
> Anyone have an idea what's wrong.
> 
Forgot to say that the libqscintilla.so.2 is in;
  /usr/lib/qt-3.1/lib
and the same path is in my /etc/ld.so.conf
-- 
robert
redhat 9.0




From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Jul  7 10:23:13 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 10:23:13 -0400
Subject: Reverse Engineering of Windows Distribution
References: <bebuo8$h80$07$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <3F098251.426DB151@engcorp.com>

Markus Stenzel wrote:
> 
> I have a Python software for Windows, packed into a single exe file and
> accompanied with a few dll and package files.
> 
> Is there any way to reverse engineer this packet by extracting the
> source files so they can be used on Linux/Unix? I have checked the exe
> but it seems to be compressed by zlib.
> 
> Some people on the mailing lists told my friend it's possible to get the
> code once you can "unpack" the files from the exe.

It seems likely that the source to this program would be available
to you already, wouldn't it?  It *is* open source, right?

If it is, you can probably find the source on the web, or just
contact the author for it.

If it is not, you are probably violating your license agreement in
trying to do this.  Did it come with a license?

Technically it is possible, but it's not trivial, and seems like
a pretty bizarre thing to do if the author didn't intend it to
be used on Linux in the first place.  (Which we can infer from the
choice of distribution method.)

-Peter



From rimbalaya at yahoo.com  Wed Jul 23 11:12:55 2003
From: rimbalaya at yahoo.com (Rim)
Date: 23 Jul 2003 08:12:55 -0700
Subject: distutils: removing modules
Message-ID: <6f03c4a5.0307230712.39fe74d8@posting.google.com>

Hi,

Can someone explain the process for removing a python module I no
longer need?

Is there a command like: python setup.py remove ???

Thanks
-Rim



From kern at taliesen.caltech.edu  Sun Jul 20 06:16:21 2003
From: kern at taliesen.caltech.edu (Robert Kern)
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 10:16:21 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: How to detect user activity - for a screensaver for example.
References: <bnnSa.43074$124.1021717@wagner.videotron.net>
Message-ID: <bfdq5l$fq1$1@naig.caltech.edu>

In article <bnnSa.43074$124.1021717 at wagner.videotron.net>,
	Hans Deragon <hans at deragon.biz> writes:
> Greetings.
> 
> 
>    If I want to write a screensaver for Linux using Python, how can I detect 
> that the user has not touched the keyboard or mouse for the last 5 mins?

Use the xscreensaver daemon to handle this for you. From the README:

"""It is trivially easy to add new display modes to xscreensaver: any program
which can be invoked in such a way that it draws on the root window of the
screen can be used as a screensaver.  You just change a config file --
there's no need to recompile or reinstall anything."""

http://www.jwz.org/xscreensaver/
Your Linux distribution should have it.

Now how you write to the root window is up to the graphics toolkit you are
using.

> Sincerely,
> Hans Deragon

-- 
Robert Kern
kern at caltech.edu

"In the fields of hell where the grass grows high
 Are the graves of dreams allowed to die."
  -- Richard Harter



From st.brodowski at eucrea.com  Tue Jul  8 03:26:23 2003
From: st.brodowski at eucrea.com (Steffen Brodowski)
Date: 8 Jul 2003 00:26:23 -0700
Subject: Image Streaming
Message-ID: <381a2b17.0307072326.211c21b5@posting.google.com>

Hello everyone,

since one week, I'm programming with python. Its a realy interesting
tool. I wrote a script for generating barcodes in jpg-format.
Everything is ok, but my function "CreateBarcode" should write the jpg
data into an outstream. All barcodes will be generate online, without
saving the jpgs on harddisk.

Can you give me a tip witch objects I need and how to put the jpg into
an outgoing stream?

import Image, ImageDraw
def CreateBarcode(SourceString,Linewidth,WriteText):
    blablabla
    ...
    NewImage = Image.new("L",NewSize,Backcolor)
    ImgDraw = ImageDraw.Draw(NewImage)
    ....

    #How to put the image into an stream?

best regards 

Steffen Brodowksi
Germany



From pythonhda at yahoo.com.replacepythonwithlinux  Tue Jul 29 09:41:39 2003
From: pythonhda at yahoo.com.replacepythonwithlinux (pythonhda)
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 09:41:39 -0400
Subject: problems in a python script
References: <mailman.1059478782.22621.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <20030729094139.2e7a92a6.pythonhda@yahoo.com.replacepythonwithlinux>

Whenever I get an syntax error after editing a file from someone else, it's usually because they used another indenting scheme than I do.

For example, I use spaces for indenting and some people use tabs. Check to see what indenting method they're using and make sure you use the same.

If you copied the code straight from the browser, make sure you don't have any extra spaces/tabs at the beginning of the line and make sure you use a good (programmer's) text editor to save your files.



On Tue, 29 Jul 2003 12:39:06 +0100
M?rio Gamito <webmaster at dte.ua.pt> wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> I've downloaded the 30 days trial version of editize and followed the 
> instructions in http://plone.org/Members/tlynch/HowToIntegrateEditize
> to install it.
> 
> Everything runs smoothly  until the creation of munge.py as explained in 
> the above link. I get an error saying
> 
>   " Script line 4
>      inputvalue = inputvalue.replace("\r", "")
>      ^
> SyntaxError: invalid syntax"
> 
> A curious thing is that when i save it, not only i get the above error, 
> but also the lines begining with double cardinal (##) are gone!!!
> 
> Also the text refers to "Note: you might need to edit the line calling 
> munge in wysiwyg_support to reflect the name of your folder where all 
> the Editize stuff is stored."
> 
> Where is this is done ?
> 
> Thank you in advance for your time and patience.
> 
> Warm Regards,
> M?rio Gamito
> 
> 
> 
> 
> munge.py
> -----------------------------------------------------
> ## Script (Python) "munge"
>     ##bind container=container
>     ##bind context=context
>     ##bind namespace=
>     ##bind script=script
>     ##bind subpath=traverse_subpath
>     ##parameters=inputvalue
>     ##title=
> 
>     # to guard against files that might contain only
>     # returns or linefeeds, we will delete each separately
>     # rather than trying: replace("\r\n", "")
>     inputvalue = inputvalue.replace("\r", "")
>     inputvalue = inputvalue.replace("\n", "")
>     inputvalue = inputvalue.replace("'", "&#039;")
> 
>     return inputvalue
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 



From delphiro at zonnet.nl  Fri Jul  4 15:14:01 2003
From: delphiro at zonnet.nl (delphiro)
Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 21:14:01 +0200
Subject: Python is a gem, you need to keep pushing it ....
In-Reply-To: <3F05C320.BF195230@engcorp.com>
References: <mailman.1057327627.5127.python-list@python.org>
	<3F05C138.687F5A06@engcorp.com>
	<3F05C320.BF195230@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <20030704211401.5edeec2e.delphiro@zonnet.nl>

> Thus contradicting myself, of course. :-)  What I meant to say was "I know what you mean, since I've found it highly suitable as well, but no one with good experience in computing could reasonably claim it will fit *all* problems except hardware drivers."

Off course there will always be better solutions for specific computing problems. In our company however there is not
a thing that could not be done with Python. And as I think of our company as a very regular IT company ('development keywords'; gui / database / internet / client-server / sorter-system (well the last is not too regular I guess :-)) this will fit for a lot of IT companies.

And off course, if someone wants to have a macro for Word of Excel, Python won't do but it *will* for almost any regular IT job. That's my point.

-- 
[-------------delphiro-------------]
[-- http://pyciv.sourceforge.net --]
[----------------------------------]




From vvainio at tp.spt.fi  Wed Jul 23 06:28:24 2003
From: vvainio at tp.spt.fi (Ville Vainio)
Date: 23 Jul 2003 03:28:24 -0700
Subject: [OnTopic] SCO is Going After End Users
References: <4868482a.0307211336.4ca9493a@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <ad496f8.0307230228.2767acc2@posting.google.com>

clpy.NOSPAM at russellsalsbury.com (Russ Salsbury) wrote in message news:<4868482a.0307211336.4ca9493a at posting.google.com>...

> I realize that this is OT, but SCO's action strikes at the heart of
> Open Source.  Somebody with the right patents can try to tax or shut

It might be slightly on topic in that the future versions of Python
could theoretically (and developers willing), shall we say, not pay as
much attention for unixware as the target platform... perhaps even
drift so far as not being able to compile at all >;-).



From op73418 at mail.telepac.pt  Mon Jul 21 11:35:48 2003
From: op73418 at mail.telepac.pt (Gonçalo Rodrigues)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 16:35:48 +0100
Subject: recognizing empty iterators
References: <2259b0e2.0307210626.11a1bbf1@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bs1ohvcf2i48mnrf4t38d0dg5fnqm7ceut@4ax.com>

On 21 Jul 2003 07:26:15 -0700, mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato)
wrote:

>After a recent thread on .endswith, I have been thinking about iterators.
>I realized that I don't know a satisfactory way to check if an
>iterator is empty. In other words I am looking for an
>"isempty" function to use in "if" statements such as
>
>if isempty(iterator):
>   do_something()
>
>without side effects. Here are some unsatisfactory ways of implementing
>"isempty":
>
>#1: converting to a list or tuple
>def isempty(iterator):
>    return not list(iterator)
>
>Easy, but one has to create the entire list, thus defecting the basic
>purpose of the iterator, i.e. lazy evaluation.
>
>#2: checking for StopIteration
>def isempty(iterator):
>    try:
>        iterator.next()
>    except StopIteration:
>        return True
>    else:
>        return False
>
>This works, for instance
>
>print isempty(iter([]))
>
>gives True and 
>
>it=iter([1,2,3])
>print isempty(it)
>
>gives False. However, there is a side effect: after the check, the
>iterator has advanced of one step and now "it.next()" gives 2, not 1. 
>In order this to work without side effects, I should be able to restart 
>the iterator from the beginning, but I don't know how to do that.
>Is it possible?
>
>#3: comparing with the empty iterator
>
>emptyiterator=iter([])
>
>it=iter([])
>
>if it == emptyiterator: print 'Ok!'
>
>This simply doesn't work.
>
>I wonder if the itertools module should contain a function to check for
>empty iterators, thus simplifying my life ;) Of course, I may well be
>missing something obvious, if so, please enlighten me.
>

I don't think you're missing anything, the iterator protocol is just
not designed to answer that question. The best that can be got is your
example #2. 

I always make sure to add __nonzero__ to any iterator I code - and
where it makes sense, of course.

>
>                Michele

With my best regards,
G. Rodrigues



From donn at drizzle.com  Fri Jul  4 00:03:22 2003
From: donn at drizzle.com (Donn Cave)
Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 04:03:22 -0000
Subject: How to spawn a program with redirection as it parameter
References: <ea8ebdc7.0307030218.75f3ebac@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1057291400.926913@yasure>

Quoth sshark97 at hotmail.com (TH Lim):
| How do I do a simple thing like  /bin/cat myfile.txt >> yourfile.txt
| in unix? I tried with the script shown below but not successful. Am
| doing it right? Pls. advise. thank you.
|
| #!/usr/bin/python
| import os
| os.spawnl(os.P_WAIT, "/bin/cat" , "/bin/cat", "myfile.txt >>
| yourfile.txt")
| print "Done"

No, the '>>' operator belongs to the shell, and in spawnl there
is no shell.  As another followup observes, if you want a shell,
you can use system() -
  os.system('cat myfile.txt >> yourfile.txt')     is about the same as
  os.spawnl(os.P_WAIT, '/bin/sh', 'sh', '-c', 'cat myfile.txt >> yourfile.txt')

Sometimes we would rather avoid the shell, because there's a risk
that when it re-evaluates the command parameters they will come
out different than we intend.  In that case, there isn't any standard
function, you have to write your own.  Off the top of my head, maybe
try something like

  def spawnvio(w, file, cmd, iodx):
      pid = os.fork()
      if pid:
          if w == os.P_WAIT:
              p, s = os.waitpid(pid, 0)
              return s
          else:
              return pid
      else:
          try:
              # Perform redirections
              for n, u in iodx:
                  if n != u:
                      os.dup2(n, u)
                      os.close(n)
              os.execve(file, cmd, os.environ)
          finally:
              os._exit(113)

  yrf = os.open('yourfile.txt', os.O_APPEND|os.O_CREAT)
  spawnvio(os.P_WAIT, '/bin/cat', ['cat', 'myfile.txt'], [(yrf, 1)])
  os.close(yrf)

	Donn Cave, donn at drizzle.com



From bokr at oz.net  Mon Jul 28 23:31:05 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 29 Jul 2003 03:31:05 GMT
Subject: octet string conversion
References: <ec1162c7.0307281214.50b68373@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bg4ppp$6sk$0@216.39.172.122>

On 28 Jul 2003 13:14:50 -0700, ruach at chpc.utah.edu (Matthew) wrote:

>I am working on some software that uses SNMP to get information from
>routers and switches. I am using the pysnmp module (v2.0.8) to do the
>snmp part. The problem that I am having is that when I query a router
>for mac addresses pysnmp returns octetstrings like this:
>
>\000\002\263\254\264\351
>\010\000 \301F\021
>\010\000 \300\303[
>\000\002\263\254\264\241
>
>what I need though is hex strings like this:
>
>0:e0:7d:de:5:48
>0:e0:7d:c8:dc:9f
>8:0:36:4:3b:de
>0:80:ad:3a:9e:2b
>
>Can anyone tell me how to convert the octet strings to hex strings?
>
Assuming that your data is really octal character representations like \nnn,
and the spaces, F, and [ in the middle lines are typos, and that your need example
has nothing to do with the example data,

 >>> data = r"""
 ... \000\002\263\254\264\351
 ... \010\000\301\021
 ... \010\000\300\303
 ... \000\002\263\254\264\241
 ... """
 >>> for line in data.splitlines():
 ...     if not line: continue   # skip the first \n in data above
 ...     print 'line: %r' %line
 ...     oct3list = line.split('\\')[1:]
 ...     print 'oct3list: %r'%oct3list
 ...     octvals = [int(oct3,8) for oct3 in oct3list]
 ...     print 'octvals: %r'%octvals
 ...     hexstrings = ['%02X'%octval for octval in octvals]
 ...     print 'hexstrings: %r'%hexstrings
 ...     print 'joined with colons => %r' % ':'.join(hexstrings)
 ...     print
 ...
 line: '\\000\\002\\263\\254\\264\\351'
 oct3list: ['000', '002', '263', '254', '264', '351']
 octvals: [0, 2, 179, 172, 180, 233]
 hexstrings: ['00', '02', 'B3', 'AC', 'B4', 'E9']
 joined with colons => '00:02:B3:AC:B4:E9'  

 line: '\\010\\000\\301\\021'
 oct3list: ['010', '000', '301', '021']
 octvals: [8, 0, 193, 17]
 hexstrings: ['08', '00', 'C1', '11']
 joined with colons => '08:00:C1:11'

 line: '\\010\\000\\300\\303'
 oct3list: ['010', '000', '300', '303']
 octvals: [8, 0, 192, 195]
 hexstrings: ['08', '00', 'C0', 'C3']
 joined with colons => '08:00:C0:C3'

 line: '\\000\\002\\263\\254\\264\\241'
 oct3list: ['000', '002', '263', '254', '264', '241']
 octvals: [0, 2, 179, 172, 180, 161]
 hexstrings: ['00', '02', 'B3', 'AC', 'B4', 'A1']
 joined with colons => '00:02:B3:AC:B4:A1'

and I got it wrong because I used fixed 2-char hex in upper case,
and I'm showing the repr() of the line, which doubles the \'s,
then you can fix it ;-)

And get this for the data:

 line: \000\002\263\254\264\351
 joined with colons => '0:2:b3:ac:b4:e9'

 line: \010\000\301\021
 joined with colons => '8:0:c1:11'

 line: \010\000\300\303
 joined with colons => '8:0:c0:c3'

 line: \000\002\263\254\264\241
 joined with colons => '0:2:b3:ac:b4:a1'

In future, please post actual data and corresponding output
(or if you did this time, explain the anomalies). Otherwise
it's a guessing game, and wastes all of our time except for
silly finger exercises.

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From glenfant at NOSPAM.bigfoot.com  Fri Jul  4 12:22:48 2003
From: glenfant at NOSPAM.bigfoot.com (Gilles Lenfant)
Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 18:22:48 +0200
Subject: loading objects from ZODB
References: <be47oo$621$05$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <be48ru$p9o$1@biggoron.nerim.net>

"Achim Domma" <domma at procoders.net> a ?crit dans le message de news:
be47oo$621$05$1 at news.t-online.com...
> Hi,
>
> I'm playing around with ZODB but I don't understand when objects are
loaded
> from the DB. Assume I have an object containing a list of other objects.
If
> this object is loaded from ZODB, when is the list filled? Only on demand?
I
> think yes, because otherwise reading the top node would result in loading
> the whole database. But I wanted to be sure!
>
> regards,
> Achim
>
>

It seems you don't need to care about this. The persistence of objects is
(almost) transparent.
You get/set the objects through a transparent cache to the database.
The only rule : all objects must be picklable, and watch the doc about
_v_xxx and p_xxx attributes.

--Gilles




From spam at spam.com  Fri Jul 25 11:19:42 2003
From: spam at spam.com (Ton K.)
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 17:19:42 +0200
Subject: Memory leak with after_cancel() in Tkinter
Message-ID: <newscache$a16lih$274$1@cache3.nc3a.nato.int>

Folks,

I'm experiencing this myself with an event driven simulator that makes 
*heavy* use of after() and after_cancel().
I've seen references to this bug.
Has it been fixed in Python 2.2.2?
Python 2.3?

Thanks
Ton K.




From duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk  Wed Jul 16 05:04:18 2003
From: duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk (Duncan Booth)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 09:04:18 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: A few beginning questions
References: <3f129a8a$1@mail.hmgcc.gov.uk> <2259b0e2.0307140930.4b3c43a5@posting.google.com> <ptkdj863.fsf@python.net> <bf0anc$9gch1$1@ID-141451.news.uni-berlin.de> <3f13bd77$1@mail.hmgcc.gov.uk> <Xns93B968108D2DCduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1> <AhCF/ks/KjWP089yn@the-wire.com>
Message-ID: <Xns93BA5DF55D776duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

mwilson at the-wire.com (Mel Wilson) wrote in news:AhCF/ks/KjWP089yn at the-
wire.com:

> In article <Xns93B968108D2DCduncanrcpcouk at 127.0.0.1>,
> Duncan Booth <duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk> wrote:
>>The usual way is simply to reverse the list before iterating over it.
>>
>>     l = ['some', 'text', 'in', 'a', 'list' ]
>>     l_reversed = l.reverse()
>>     for item in l_reversed:
>>         do something to item
> 
> Trouble.  l.reverse() reverses l in place.  So just
> 
>         l.reverse()
>         for item in l:

Duh.

>>> for i in range(100):
	print "I must test code before posting it to Usenet"

Thanks for correcting that stupid blunder.

Yes, if it is safe to reverse the original list, just reverse and iterate 
over it as corrected above. If not, copy and reverse it:

>>> l = ['some', 'text', 'in', 'a', 'list' ]
>>> l_reversed = list(l)
>>> l_reversed.reverse()
>>> for item in l_reversed:
	print item


list
a
in
text
some
>>> 

(Both code snippets tested this time.)

-- 
Duncan Booth                                             duncan at rcp.co.uk
int month(char *p){return(124864/((p[0]+p[1]-p[2]&0x1f)+1)%12)["\5\x8\3"
"\6\7\xb\1\x9\xa\2\0\4"];} // Who said my code was obscure?



From Vincent.Raaijmakers at ge.com  Thu Jul 31 08:43:25 2003
From: Vincent.Raaijmakers at ge.com (Raaijmakers, Vincent (IndSys, GE Interlogix))
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 07:43:25 -0500
Subject: SQL2000 database vs python
Message-ID: <55939F05720D954E9602518B77F6127F02F465D5@FTWMLVEM01.e2k.ad.ge.com>

Can someone tell me if there is a module out for using a sql2000 database within python?
My python application (runs on Linux) already uses mysql but now I need also to talk to a sql2000 database on another machine.

Any suggestions? www.python.org, google couldn't help me.

Thanks in advance,
Vincent




From maxm at mxm.dk  Thu Jul 10 07:37:46 2003
From: maxm at mxm.dk (Max M)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 13:37:46 +0200
Subject: Zope problem:  objectValues('Folder')
In-Reply-To: <3F0D4C74.5040304@gmx.de>
References: <3F0D11C7.4010805@gmx.de> <3F0D21D4.3040902@mxm.dk> <3F0D2405.1070606@gmx.de> <3F0D2EAC.2010605@mxm.dk> <3F0D4C74.5040304@gmx.de>
Message-ID: <3F0D500A.8010108@mxm.dk>

Jens Riedel wrote:

> I used the objectValues('Folder')-method in a DTML-method named 
> 'navigation'. I include <dtml-var navigation> in a 
> 'standard_html_header' DTML method, and this standard_html_header is 
> used in the index_html document.


Navigation may be used for something else.


Does it work if you render only the navigation method?

Also, you will find it much easier to find replies to Zope questions on 
the zope mailing list.

regards Max M




From klappnase at web.de  Wed Jul 30 06:12:38 2003
From: klappnase at web.de (klappnase)
Date: 30 Jul 2003 03:12:38 -0700
Subject: Python..Tkinter..PYTHONPATH..
References: <f0b58f95.0307291054.4bc43c26@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <a7a67196.0307300212.48350fd8@posting.google.com>

usc_dog at yahoo.com (q) wrote in message news:<f0b58f95.0307291054.4bc43c26 at posting.google.com>...
> Hi...
> 
> I have a Linux RH8.0 system. I installed Python2.2 from the 8.0 ISO
> updates. I installed the Tcl 8.3.3 from the Tcl site... I also
> installed the tcllib 1.0.
> 
> My goal is to get viewcvs to run. However, when I check to see where
> the system thinks things are, the PYTHONPATH env var is blank.
> 
> echo $PYTHONPATH --> produces nothing....
> 
> So, can anyone tell me what it should say? Can anyone shed any light
> as to how this var is populated, and why it might be blank....? Can
> anyone suggest what file I need to alter/should modify to have this
> properly set whenever a user logs into the system....?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Bruce
> bedouglas at earthlink.net

On my Mandrake-9.1 I have the same non-existing $PYTHONPATH, however
everything works fine (as far as I have tried), so I think this
variable is not really needed. I must admit that I don't know too much
about that. If you want to create a PYTHONPATH I think you will have
to edit /etc/.bashrc , just add something like "export PYTHONPATH
<path>" . To tell the truth I am not quite sure about the details,
there may be also rc-files in the home directories that will overwrite
the global settings from /etc/.bashrc (btw, that is the file's name on
my mandrake box, maybe on RH the filename might differ).
Maybe your problem is not PYTHONPATH at all, but sys.path in python.
I am sorry that I cannot give you better help, I am just a newbie.

Good luck

Michael



From shalehperry at comcast.net  Mon Jul  7 15:24:56 2003
From: shalehperry at comcast.net (Sean 'Shaleh' Perry)
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 12:24:56 -0700
Subject: looking for UDP package, network programming guidance
In-Reply-To: <3F09B124.1070008@ghaering.de>
References: <uj8jgvsrbop1lhem5t743gv9pvuh7ig6l1@4ax.com> <3F09B124.1070008@ghaering.de>
Message-ID: <200307071224.56390.shalehperry@comcast.net>

On Monday 07 July 2003 10:43, Gerhard H?ring wrote:
> > Any good references for learning about
> > this stuff, [...]
>
> Sorry, not that I knew of. There is a (very short) Python Socket
> Programming Tutorial, but it only covers the very basics. Probably there
> is some good material out there for doing socket programming in C which
> you could easily map to Python, because the concepts and even the names
> of the functions are pretty much the same.
>

W. Richard Stevens' "UNIX Network Programming" covers sockets in depth and is 
one of the authoritative texts on the subject.

Yes, it is C.  However the sockets API pretty much works the same in every 
language.





From scook at elp.rr.com  Tue Jul  1 23:50:10 2003
From: scook at elp.rr.com (Stan Cook)
Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 03:50:10 GMT
Subject: Date issue Win98 vs NT
Message-ID: <SDsMa.38974$hV.2346862@twister.austin.rr.com>

Has anyone else had this or a similar problem and is there a workaround?

This piece of code:

from time import gmtime, strftime
_log = _log + "\\" + strftime("%m%d%y", gmtime()) + ".log"

produces a file with the name 'today's date.log' on NT, but creates a file
called 'tomorrow's date.log' on Windows 98.  I would really like to know
why this happens.  Any help offered is very much appreciated.

Thanks,

Stan





From klapotec at chello.at  Thu Jul 31 23:32:50 2003
From: klapotec at chello.at (Christopher Koppler)
Date: Fri, 01 Aug 2003 03:32:50 GMT
Subject: A very simple question
References: <vijfpqokte2s60@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <5cmjivs3aismc9jei9kdbhp781851en8qi@4ax.com>

On Thu, 31 Jul 2003 17:13:36 -0800, "Arnaldo Riquelme"
<ajr at dynacap.com> wrote:

>
>I'm getting familiar with Python and I have a simple question:
>
>class abc:
>    x = 100
>    y = 200
>    z = 300
>
>
>ac = abc()
>
>Shouldn't I have a attribute named __dict__ for ac that contains a
>dictionary of all the variables?
>
>Instead when I do:
>print ac__dict__
>
>I get an empty dictionary {}
>
>However:
>
>print abc.__dict__    works.
>
>I'm missing something somewhere, can anyone please enlight me on this
>matter.

These variables you defined (x, y, z) are class attributes; ac,
however is an instance of class abc, and so has no direct access to
them. However, the following gets you there in this case.

>>> print ac.__class__.__dict__
{'y': 200, 'x': 100, '__module__': '__main__', 'z': 300, '__doc__':
None}

You can test for instancehood with:
>>> isinstance(ac, abc)
True


However, what you probably wanted was to make x, y, z available to
abcs instances, which this will get you:

class abc:
    def __init__(self):
        self.x = 100
        self.y = 200
        self.z = 300

>>> ac = abc()
>>> print abc.__dict__
{'__module__': '__main__', '__doc__': None, '__init__': <function
__init__ at 0x00951230>}
>>> print ac.__dict__
{'y': 200, 'x': 100, 'z': 300}

The difference (read the tutorial
(http://www.python.org/doc/current/tut/node11.html#SECTION0011320000000000000000)
for a better explanation) is that, since you can have many instances
of any class, each of those has to have those attributes/variables
defined seperately, which you cannot do by just defining them once for
the whole class, but must do for each instance at instance creation
time (i.e. with ac = abc() in this case). 

--Christopher



From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Tue Jul 29 21:12:21 2003
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 21:12:21 -0400
Subject: while (assignment):
References: <slrnbicopb.6gh.sybrenUSE@sybren.thirdtower.com>
Message-ID: <vie6s6og1ddg92@news.supernews.com>

"Sybren Stuvel" <sybrenUSE at YOURthirdtower.imagination.com> wrote in message
news:slrnbicopb.6gh.sybrenUSE at sybren.thirdtower.com...
> Hi there,
>
> Is it possible to use an assignment in a while-loop? I'd like to do
> something like "loop while there is still something to be read, and if
> there is, put it in this variable". I've been a C programmer since I
> was 14, so a construct like:
>
> while info = mydbcursor.fetchone():
> print "Information: "+str(info)
>
> comes to mind. Unfortunately, this doesn't work. Is there a similar
> construct in python?

For most purposes, there is. Just use a for loop!
As long as the source behaves like an iterator, the for
loop will automatically assign each result.

Something like this:

   for info in mydbcursor.resultset:
        print "Information: " + str(info)

In this, mydbcursor.resultset has to look like
a sequence of some kind (list or tuple),
or be an iterator. Since what you presumably
have is a result set from a data base query,
that's a rather natural fit. You might have to wrap
the result set to make it an iterator, but I'd think
any good db package would catch up eventually.

HTH
John Roth
>
> Sybren
> -- 
> The problem with the world is stupidity. Not saying there should be a
> capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the
> safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself?





From oren-py-l at hishome.net  Wed Jul 30 05:57:28 2003
From: oren-py-l at hishome.net (Oren Tirosh)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 05:57:28 -0400
Subject: Bottleneck: easy obscurity "encryption" via xor
In-Reply-To: <p6rdivscomvoraihqmac4piut7uqcpdvj1@4ax.com>
References: <p6rdivscomvoraihqmac4piut7uqcpdvj1@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <20030730095728.GA52034@hishome.net>

On Wed, Jul 30, 2003 at 12:03:06AM +0200, Tino Lange wrote:
> Hi!
> 
> I identified a bottleneck in my programs.
> 
> I just want to "encrypt" data by easy xoring. Ok - that's no
> encryption at all -  I know. But it's hardly readable - and that's
> enough :-) Just some quick obscurity.
> 
> It turns out not to be quick at all. I really didn't expect this to be
> a bottleneck, but it takes quite some time.

If you want higher performance always try to use things that operate
on larger chunks. When you do things byte-by-byte you start to notice the
fact that Python is really an interpreter.

As noted by Bengt Richter xoring with a constant value can be done by 
str.translate.  It doesn't work for variable values, though.

This code does around 250kb/second on a Pentium 800. XORing is done 32
bits at a time. Conversion to and from character strings is done in even 
larger chunks using the array module instead of using ord() and chr().

    Oren


from __future__ import generators

import sha

def xor_stream_to_arrays(fin, seed, hashfunc=sha):
    """ fin is a file-like object. 
    yields arrays that may be written to a stream """
    from array import array 

    h = hashfunc.new(seed)
    maskchunk = h.digest()
    chunksize = len(maskchunk)

    while True:
        datachunk = fin.read(chunksize)
        if len(datachunk) < chunksize:
            break
        yield array('l', [x^y for (x,y) in zip(
            array('l', maskchunk), 
            array('l', datachunk))])

        h.update('x')
        maskchunk = h.digest()

    maskchunk = maskchunk[:len(datachunk)] # trim to length of remainder

    # do the rest by bytes:
    yield array('b', [x^y for (x,y) in zip(
        array('b', maskchunk), 
        array('b', datachunk))])

def xor_stream_to_stream(fin, fout, seed):
    """ fin, fout are file-like objects """
    for a in xor_stream_to_arrays(fin, seed):
        fout.write(buffer(a))

def xor_string_to_string(s, seed):
    """ gets a string, returns a string """
    from cStringIO import StringIO
    fin = StringIO(s)
    fout = StringIO()
    xor_stream_to_stream(fin, fout, seed)
    return fout.getvalue()





From tetra701 at mail.ru  Sun Jul 20 00:33:35 2003
From: tetra701 at mail.ru (=?koi8-r?Q?=22?=Petr Evstratov=?koi8-r?Q?=22=20?=)
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 08:33:35 +0400
Subject: Tk mainloop()
Message-ID: <E19e5t9-0005rJ-00.tetra701-mail-ru@f11.mail.ru>

Hi, I have a question: how do you execute an arbitrary function in Tk fooBar.mainloop()?

I need to change the contents of a label every second, but I think I will also use some other functions as well...

I hope that someone will answer my question, because I have been looking for an answer for 3 days, asking people, searching Google... and still have not found anything useful...
      
                                   Thanks, Pete




From max at cNOvSisiPonAtecMh.com  Thu Jul  3 12:30:33 2003
From: max at cNOvSisiPonAtecMh.com (Max Khesin)
Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 16:30:33 GMT
Subject: A story about Python... sort of
References: <3f03f430$0$97222$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk> <KwWMa.3332$Aw.3042@twister.nyc.rr.com> <3F043B22.19FE79AE@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <JSYMa.5170$351.1713810@twister.nyc.rr.com>

I am not a TDD expert, but from what I understand TDD applies to lower-level
code, not to design. Design usually spans separate modules and could have
serious impact on the compilation time, while lower-level code can be
compiled/tested very quickly, albeit not as quickly as python. And yes, many
solutions do indicate that there WAS a problem, but since the solutions
actually do work, the problem is not sufficient (IMO) to be a deal breaker
in terms of programming language choice.
max.

--
========================================
Max Khesin, software developer -
max at cNvOiSsPiAoMntech.com
[check out our image compression software at www.cvisiontech.com, JBIG2-PDF
compression @
www.cvisiontech.com/cvistapdf.html]





From jmostei at hotmail.com  Thu Jul 17 05:34:39 2003
From: jmostei at hotmail.com (=?iso-8859-1?B?amFpbWUgbW9zdGVpcu1uIGFsZ2FycmE=?=)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 09:34:39 +0000
Subject: chess!!!
Message-ID: <Law15-F81vvdxB4Zcbo0001b247@hotmail.com>

hi all, here i have the project of a chess program. At the moment i have 
just implemented the pieces movement. Its an object-oriented script. If 
someone come and help me perhaps we can do a package for chess which solves 
the implementation of the highly complex rules of chess. I want to make an 
inteligent program of chess with a completely new strategy. If someone is 
interested, please answer.

_________________________________________________________________
Melod?as, logos y mil servicios para tu tel?fono en MSN M?viles.  
http://www.msn.es/MSNMovil/
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From spam.trap at btinternet.com  Tue Jul  1 08:28:02 2003
From: spam.trap at btinternet.com (michael)
Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 13:28:02 +0100
Subject: Question regarding naming convention
In-Reply-To: <m1_La.1613$eF3.213194@news20.bellglobal.com>
References: <1056988215.49928.0@iris.uk.clara.net> <m1_La.1613$eF3.213194@news20.bellglobal.com>
Message-ID: <1057062415.13616.0@doris.uk.clara.net>

Sean Ross wrote:
> http://www.python.org/doc/essays/styleguide.html#names

<snip quote>

Yeah, thanks for the quote. Unfortunately, this still leaves me with 
syntax that's a bit unfriendly. Taking the StringIO class as an example, 
I can either write:

     import StringIO
     s = StringIO.StringIO()

or:

     from StringIO import StringIO
     s = StringIO()

Both of the above seem to overcomplicate the syntax. Of the two, I 
prefer the second, but I'm sure I've read on c.l.py that the 
from..import.. version is not a preferred way of doing things.

Is there no way to write a class, such that the statement:

     import MyClass

would dynamically import the MyClass class from MyClass.py ?

It just surprises me that there isn't a neater way around this, as 
Python seems to encapsulate most everything else in a simple way.

Thanks,

Michael.




From pinard at iro.umontreal.ca  Mon Jul 14 09:20:36 2003
From: pinard at iro.umontreal.ca (Francois Pinard)
Date: 14 Jul 2003 09:20:36 -0400
Subject: Confusing automated translators.
In-Reply-To: <3F12808B.E53193B8@hotmail.com>
References: <37d6f77c.0307130932.1e3adf0d@posting.google.com>
	<3f11ac74$0$49101$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
	<ad052e5c.0307131718.4903430d@posting.google.com>
	<3F12808B.E53193B8@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <oq1xwtjlcr.fsf@alcyon.progiciels-bpi.ca>

[Alan Kennedy]

> My favourite "phrase designed to mess up machine translation" [...] is

> "Time flies like an arrow, but fruit flies like a banana".

The "Time flies" is a classic.  I heard it a few dozens of years ago. :-)
Another similar classic, for French, is "Le pilote ferme la porte.".

> If people think it's too much newsgroup abuse to discuss such a
> non-python subject, [...]

It is Pythonic enough to me :-), as I long intended to rewrite a previous
word categoriser of mine, in Python.  The categorical ambiguities are
always a challenge, and for French at least, there are plenty of those,
especially for texts which are loose on diacritical marks.

My previous categoriser was written in MoSTex, an (unknown) language and
system implemented in Scheme, made in such a way that it was compiling
to optimised machine code.  I'm quite curious about how speedy, legible
and maintainable a Python implementation would be, by comparison.

-- 
Fran?ois Pinard   http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/~pinard




From FBatista at uniFON.com.ar  Mon Jul 14 11:47:37 2003
From: FBatista at uniFON.com.ar (Batista, Facundo)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 12:47:37 -0300
Subject: Expressing time.
Message-ID: <A128D751272CD411BC9200508BC2194D03382BAA@escpl.tcp.com.ar>

#- -----Mensaje original-----
#- De: John Hunter [mailto:jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu]
#- Enviado el: Lunes 14 de Julio de 2003 12:39 PM
#- 
#- 
#- The mx.DateTime package does what you need:
#- 



Since v2.3, you have datetime:

http://www.python.org/dev/doc/devel/lib/module-datetime.html




From tjreedy at udel.edu  Mon Jul 21 01:22:07 2003
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 01:22:07 -0400
Subject: Unfortunate exception on dict item assignment (and why aren't slices hashable?)
References: <mailman.1058752171.10243.python-list@python.org> <bffq56$j27$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <W_2dnTcAbdod5YaiXTWJkQ@comcast.com>

"Bengt Richter" <bokr at oz.net> wrote in message
news:bffq56$j27$0 at 216.39.172.122...
> from types import SliceType  # BTW, why is slice a  builtin
function, not a type?

I presume you are asking: Why hasn't slice been converted from a
'mere' function to a callable type like int, str, and float have been?

If this has not yet been done for the coming 2.3, I presume it will be
as soon as someone capable of doing the conversion decides to do so.
Slice was originally added for use by Numerical Extensions and so far
has probably seen little use by anyone else.  Hence its conversion is
of lesser priority.

Terry J. Reedy





From p-abel at t-online.de  Wed Jul 30 06:42:46 2003
From: p-abel at t-online.de (Peter Abel)
Date: 30 Jul 2003 03:42:46 -0700
Subject: searching for matches within a word list
References: <pan.2003.07.29.21.35.57.62265.14802@presidency.com>
Message-ID: <13a533e8.0307300242.6cc9e9ec@posting.google.com>

Rajarshi Guha <rajarshi at presidency.com> wrote in message news:<pan.2003.07.29.21.35.57.62265.14802 at presidency.com>...
> Hi,
>   I have a large list of words (each on its own line) 
> and I would like to find words that contain a specific string.
> 
> I have been trying to use a regexp but I cant see how I can find the
> word that contained the regex pattern - all I get is the pattern itself
> if I use match or findall.
> 
> I know that I could just go through the list line by line and see if the
> regex matches or not - but that method seems horifically inefficient.
> 
> Does anybody have any suggestions as to how I could solve this
> efficiently?
> 
> Thanks,
> Rajarshi


Suppose your words are in one string delimited by newline:
>>> import re
>>> words='MyPython\nJohn\nPython\nMary\nJython\nNothing'
>>> # Suppose youn want to find all the words with the substing "ython" in them.
>>> pattern='(.*?ython.*?)'
>>> re.findall(pattern, words)
['MyPython', 'Python', 'Jython']
>>> 
Hope this helps

Regards Peter



From ray at rays-web.com  Sat Jul 19 19:57:40 2003
From: ray at rays-web.com (Ray Smith)
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 23:57:40 GMT
Subject: Python vs ...
Message-ID: <3f19dad1@news.syd.ip.net.au>

Just a quick thought I had as a stumbled out of bed this morning ...


when I program some tricky piece of code well in another language I say 
to myself ...

"Gee I was clever"

when I program a tricky well written piece of code in Python I say to 
myself ...

"Gee Python is Clever"

Regards,

Ray Smith




From adechert at earthlink.net  Mon Jul 21 20:00:31 2003
From: adechert at earthlink.net (Alan Dechert)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 00:00:31 GMT
Subject: Voting Project Needs Python People
References: <LDVSa.14955$Mc.1126731@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <xqxwuebfyym.fsf@cola2.ca.boeing.com> <bfhhgq$5lu$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net> <xqx7k6b36r8.fsf@cola2.ca.boeing.com> <jk_Sa.113364$Io.9707082@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <7x65lv31hf.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <z8%Sa.113480$Io.9712518@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>

"Paul Rubin" <http://phr.cx at NOSPAM.invalid> wrote in message
news:7x65lv31hf.fsf at ruckus.brouhaha.com...
> "Alan Dechert" <adechert at earthlink.net> writes:
> > > 1. Software chooses 1% of votes to change (big enough to have an
> > >    effect, small enough to maybe go unnoticed).
> > >
> > I don't think this is a possible scenario.  However, it brings up an
> > interesting test for our full blown study (keep in mind, we're trying to
> > focus on getting the demo done even though people want to jump ahead to
> > speculate on every possible detail).
>
> But something like that seems to have happened in Escambia County,
> Florida, in 2000.  Out of 21,500 absentee ballots cast, 296 (1.5% of
> the total) were overvotes with three or more presidential candidates
> checked.  ZERO were overvotes with exactly two candidates checked.
> Ballot tampering after the ballots were received is the most plausible
> explanation.
>
But that's a different scenario.  As you described it, the voter never had a
chance to see the alteration.  The scenario Harry described is where the
voter has the altered ballot in hand but doesn't notice.

> You said that in your system the paper ballots are
> supposed to take priority over the electronic count if there is a
> dispute (that's the whole point of having the paper ballots).  So it
> doesn't matter if the paper and electronic results don't match, and
> the tampering doesn't have to happen while the voter can still see the
> ballot.
>
I don't see much of a point here.  It will be very hard -- if not
impossible -- to tamper with the printout in a manner that would go
undetected.  First of all, overvotes will not be possible at all.  I can't
quite visualize how you figure someone will alter the printout.  Take some
whiteout and cover one name and print in a new one?  That would look pretty
obvious.  Furthermore, the bar code would no longer match the text.  In my
scheme, the tamperer would have no way to know how to alter the bar code to
match any alterations in the text.

Post election checks (canvass period) would involve hand checks, and scanner
checks of the bar code and the text.  It all has to match.

> Reference:
>
>   http://www.failureisimpossible.com/essays/escambia.htm
>
> Note: Paul Lukasiak, the main author of that article, did some of the
> most thorough analysis of the Florida debacle that I've seen.  I hope
> you will read a lot of his stuff in designing your real system, so
> you'll be able to say how your system deals with the problems that he
> identified in Florida.
>
I read as much as possible and will continue to study all of this.  Keep in
mind that some of the people on our team are leading experts in the field.
They know all this stuff inside out.  We'll bring in more experts once the
study is funded.

Nobody is saying this issue is simple.  Almost everyone that has approached
the voting mess dilemma and tried to figure it out has grossly
underestimated the problem.  I have to say I underestimated too but I have
stuck with it long enough and hard enough to get a handle on it.  Our
Election Rules Database (the largest component of our proposed study) will
surface inordinate problems -- get them out in the open where we can deal
with them.

Alan Dechert









From staschuk at telusplanet.net  Wed Jul  2 10:36:41 2003
From: staschuk at telusplanet.net (Steven Taschuk)
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 08:36:41 -0600
Subject: __del__ not working with cyclic reference? (and memory-leaked?)
In-Reply-To: <ba1e306f.0307012146.6b8224e3@posting.google.com>; from janeaustine50@hotmail.com on Tue, Jul 01, 2003 at 10:46:18PM -0700
References: <ba1e306f.0307011837.269e3d2a@posting.google.com> <ba1e306f.0307012146.6b8224e3@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20030702083641.B595@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>

Quoth Jane Austine:
  [...]
> (I should not use __del__ for singleton patterns, but
> any other alternatives?)

You could register an atexit procedure; see the atexit module in
the standard library.

You *can* use __del__ for a singleton as long as there is no
cyclic reference, or if the interpreter deals with the cycle
anyway.  Under 2.2.2 and 2.3b1 this seems to work:

    # foo.py
    class MySingleton(object):
        def __del__(self):
            print 'foo'
    mysingleton = MySingleton()

The difference is that here the instance is referred to by the
module dict rather than the MySingleton class dict.  (I think the
reason this makes a difference is that interpreter shutdown
includes a zapping of module dicts, breaking this cycle:

    >>> import foo
    >>> d = foo.__dict__
    >>> d['mysingleton'].__class__.__dict__['__del__'].func_globals is d
    True

Note that if your __del__ refers to global variables, they might
have been zapped by the time it gets called.)

-- 
Steven Taschuk                                                   w_w
staschuk at telusplanet.net                                      ,-= U
                                                               1 1




From jacob at pajamadesign.org  Fri Jul 25 20:48:31 2003
From: jacob at pajamadesign.org (Jacob Singh)
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 20:48:31 -0400
Subject: upgrading python to ver 2.2 from 15
Message-ID: <000001c3530f$a5c5e2d0$9300a8c0@JACOB>

Hello!
 
I just got a new server and I am trying to migrate my mailman stuff
over, but ran into a problem.  When trying to install mailman I got the
error "mailman requires >= python 2.1xxx"  So I downloaded the new SRPMS
and installed, but unfortunately these are python2  so it installs okay,
won't update the old one and both are on the system.  So I can make a
link in bin, so I load the right one from the prompt, but this doesn't
seem to cut it for mailman, and it still won't install!
 
I need to get this done really soon, if anyone has faced this and knows
what to do, I'd be really happy.
 
thanks
 
Jacob Singh
 
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From bokr at oz.net  Thu Jul 24 02:05:58 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 24 Jul 2003 06:05:58 GMT
Subject: python 2.2 string conversion ?
References: <FaKTa.117362$Io.10011057@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <bfnt06$q6g$0@216.39.172.122>

On Thu, 24 Jul 2003 05:31:17 GMT, "ken" <kericks272 at earthlink.net> wrote:

>I've been looking for a solution to a string to long conversion problem that
>I've run into
>
>>>> x = 'e10ea210'
>>>> print x
>e10ea210
>>>> y=long(x)
>Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "<pyshell#2>", line 1, in ?
>    y=long(x)
>ValueError: invalid literal for long(): e10ea210
>>>> x='0xe10ea210'
>>>> print x
>0xe10ea210
>>>> y=long(x)
>Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "<pyshell#5>", line 1, in ?
>    y=long(x)
>ValueError: invalid literal for long(): 0xe10ea210
>>>> x="e10ea210"
>>>> y=long(x)
>Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "<pyshell#7>", line 1, in ?
>    y=long(x)
>ValueError: invalid literal for long(): e10ea210
>>>> x="0xe10ea210"
>>>> y=long(x)
>Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "<pyshell#9>", line 1, in ?
>    y=long(x)
>ValueError: invalid literal for long(): 0xe10ea210
>>>>
>
>What am I doing wrong?
>
Need to supply base if converting string that is not base 10

 >>> long('123')
 123L
 >>> long('0xe10ea210',16)
 3775832592L


Regards,
Bengt Richter



From andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au  Sun Jul  6 09:37:59 2003
From: andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au (Andrew MacIntyre)
Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2003 23:37:59 +1000 (EST)
Subject: Threading issue:  [Error 9]: bad file descriptor
In-Reply-To: <KaQNa.394960$Vi5.10189553@news1.calgary.shaw.ca>
References: <KaQNa.394960$Vi5.10189553@news1.calgary.shaw.ca>
Message-ID: <20030706233323.T71433@bullseye.apana.org.au>

On Sun, 6 Jul 2003, Kevin wrote:

> Has anyone else run into random IOErrors ([Error 9] bad file descriptor) in
> multi-threaded Python apps?

Not indicating which of the platforms with Python supported threads you're
experiencing this on doesn't give much scope for others to help...

--
Andrew I MacIntyre                     "These thoughts are mine alone..."
E-mail: andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au  (pref) | Snail: PO Box 370
        andymac at pcug.org.au             (alt) |        Belconnen  ACT  2616
Web:    http://www.andymac.org/               |        Australia




From hokiegal99 at hotmail.com  Sat Jul 12 21:42:56 2003
From: hokiegal99 at hotmail.com (hokiegal99)
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 21:42:56 -0400
Subject: removing spaces from front and end of filenames
Message-ID: <beqdf0$m2q$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>

This script works as I expect, except for the last section. I want the 
last section to actually remove all spaces from the front and/or end of 
filenames. For example, a file that was named "  test  " would be 
renamed "test" (the 2 spaces before and after the filename removed). Any 
suggestions on how to do this?

import os, re, string
print " "
print "--- Remove '%2f' From Filenames ---"
print " "
percent2f = re.compile('%2f') #look for this exact string.
for root, dirs, files in os.walk('/home/rbt/scripts'):
     for file in files:
         badchars = percent2f.findall(file)
         newfile = ''
         for badchar in badchars:
             newfile = file.replace(badchar,'-') #replace %2f with a -
         if newfile:
             newpath = os.path.join(root,newfile)
             oldpath = os.path.join(root,file)
             os.rename(oldpath,newpath)
	    print oldpath
	    print newpath
print " "
print "--- Done ---"
print " "
print "--- Remove Bad Characters From Filenames ---"
print " "
badcharset = re.compile(r'[*?<>/\|\\]') #remove any occurance of *?<>/|\
for root, dirs, files in os.walk('/home/rbt/scripts/'):
     for file in files:
         badchars = badcharset.findall(file)
         newfile = ''
         for badchar in badchars:
             newfile = file.replace(badchar,'-') #replace with a dash.
         if newfile:
             newpath = os.path.join(root,newfile)
             oldpath = os.path.join(root,file)
             os.rename(oldpath,newpath)
	    print oldpath
	    print newpath
print " "
print "--- Done ---"
print " "
print "--- Remove Spaces From Filenames ---"
print " "
for root, dirs, files in os.walk('/home/rbt/scripts'):
     for file in files:
         fname = (file)
         fname = fname.strip( )
	print fname
print " "
print "--- Done ---"
print " "




From jzgoda at gazeta.usun.pl  Sat Jul 12 18:02:54 2003
From: jzgoda at gazeta.usun.pl (Jarek Zgoda)
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 22:02:54 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: HTML Help (CHM) file for Python 2.2.3
References: <mailman.1058020278.10237.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <beq0id$9fk$2@nemesis.news.tpi.pl>

L?tez? <letezo at fw.hu> pisze:

> Could you send me a download URL of a compiled
> HTML Help (CHM) file for Python 2.2.3 ?

I don't know any file of this type, but the documentation for
ActiveState's Python distribution comes as chm (along with some
additional docs, such as Dive Into Python by Mark Pilgrim).

-- 
Jarek Zgoda
Registered Linux User #-1
http://www.zgoda.biz/ JID:zgoda at chrome.pl http://zgoda.jogger.pl/



From jerf at jerf.org  Mon Jul 14 23:07:16 2003
From: jerf at jerf.org (Jeremy Bowers)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 03:07:16 GMT
Subject: PyQT, Sharp Zaurus and color in the QTextBrowser
References: <slrnbh60lj.3jm.sybrenUSE@sybren.thirdtower.com> <mailman.1058214925.28095.python-list@python.org> <3F132103.4D18759F@engcorp.com> <mailman.1058220622.19636.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2003.07.14.23.07.15.471632@jerf.org>

On Mon, 14 Jul 2003 15:09:38 -0700, Tim Gerla wrote:
> You're right--I was under the wrong impression about single & double
> quotes. For some reason I recall reading somewhere (can't trust everything
> you read online) that XML only allowed double quotes, and I never bothered
> to verify it.

I recently had this discussion with another co-worked. The confusion
probably stems from the fact that as of the latest XHTML specification at
the time I read it, every single example XHTML fragment used double
quotes. At no point is it ever specified either way in the XHTML
specification, except by reference to the XML specification.

However, the official W3C validator accepts single quotes, so I'm going
with "they're legal". (Which has been hashed out in other messages
already, I see, but I wanted to propose a theory as to where the idea came
from, because I know I've seen it myself several times.)



From ben at dadsetan.com  Wed Jul  9 17:36:03 2003
From: ben at dadsetan.com (Behrang Dadsetan)
Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 23:36:03 +0200
Subject: Deleting specific characters from a string
In-Reply-To: <3F0C851C.4000500@livinglogic.de>
References: <begfb3$7j6$1@online.de> <3F0C851C.4000500@livinglogic.de>
Message-ID: <3F0C8AC3.5010304@dadsetan.com>

Walter D?rwald wrote:

> Behrang Dadsetan wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I would like deleting specific characters from a string.
>> As an example, I would like to delete all of the '@' '&' in the 
>> string 'You are ben at orange?enter&your&code' so that it becomes 
>> 'benorange?enteryourcode'.
>>
>> So far I have been doing it like:
>> str = 'You are ben at orange?enter&your&code'
>> str = ''.join([ c for c in str if c not in ('@', '&')])
>>
>> but that looks so ugly.. I am hoping to see nicer examples to acheive 
>> the above..
>
>
> What about the following:
>
> str = 'You are ben at orange?enter&your&code'
> str = filter(lambda c: c not in "@&", str)
>
> Bye,
>    Walter D?rwald 

def isAcceptableChar(character):
    return charachter in "@&"

str = filter(isAcceptableChar, str)

is going to finally be what I am going to use.
I not feel lambdas are so readable, unless one has serious experience in 
using them and python in general. I feel it is acceptable to add a named 
method that documents with its name what it is doing there.

But your example would probably have been my choice if I was more 
familiar with that type of use and the potential readers of my code were 
also familiar with it. Many thanks!

Ben.




From srovner at us.ibm.com  Thu Jul 24 16:00:32 2003
From: srovner at us.ibm.com (Sonia Rovner)
Date: 24 Jul 2003 13:00:32 -0700
Subject: How to import hackicon.dll
Message-ID: <8a5a6d82.0307240417.494caa13@posting.google.com>

Hello,
I'm using Python2.2.1 and Tcl/Tk 8.3 running on Win2000.  I've been
researching how to change the icon on the title bar and found that
hackicon is the one I should pursue.  However, hackicon package uses a
dll.  When I run the hi.py, I get an error saying
    ImportError: DLL load failed: The specified module could not be
found.
I copied hackicon.dll to various directories in my pythonpath but
nothing happens.



From mfranklin1 at gatwick.westerngeco.slb.com  Wed Jul 23 03:31:36 2003
From: mfranklin1 at gatwick.westerngeco.slb.com (Martin Franklin)
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 08:31:36 +0100
Subject: Tkinter Listbox looses selection on Tab
In-Reply-To: <117880a1.0307221040.60a27c0d@posting.google.com>
References: <117880a1.0307221040.60a27c0d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <200307230831.36805.mfranklin1@gatwick.westerngeco.slb.com>

On Tuesday 22 July 2003 19:40, J?rgen Hansen wrote:
> Hi
>
> I have a problem with a Listbox in Tkinter. When I tab through several
> widgets with the tab-key, the listbox looses its selection, even
> though it has been selected with .selection_set. The example below
> demonstrates this. Can anyone provide me with some help on this?
>
> Regards
> Jorgen
>
> Ps. I'm on a W2K machine with Python 2.2.2
>
> ----
> from Tkinter import *
>
> root = Tk()
> colors = ['Yellow', 'Black', 'White', 'Green']
>
> lb = Listbox(root)


Jorgen,

Try setting exportselection=0 in the Listbox construction like so:

lb = Listbox(root, exportselection=0)

This seems to work on my linux box.


Martin







From kberft at aol.com  Thu Jul 10 14:59:43 2003
From: kberft at aol.com (BigSizeXXL)
Date: 10 Jul 2003 11:59:43 -0700
Subject: mail receiving + address questions
Message-ID: <5808e763.0307101059.25e154f2@posting.google.com>

hi, i'm new to python and have a couple of questions about working
with smtp. i read that you need a pop3 service for receiving mails. i
want to create my own (private) mail service. i'm using a mail server
based upon smtps.py, but i'm still looking for a pop3 service to
receive mails that also works with smtps.py together. i would be very
happy if someone could send me such code. another question: if i have
this (smtp server and pop3 mail receiver), what is the mail address
someone cand send the mails to?

thank you for (hopefully) answering my questions

BigSizeXXL



From jon+usenet at unequivocal.co.uk  Wed Jul  9 05:59:57 2003
From: jon+usenet at unequivocal.co.uk (Jon Ribbens)
Date: 9 Jul 2003 09:59:57 GMT
Subject: Python vs PHP
References: <mailman.1057574470.1750.python-list@python.org> <kmolgv4mp12o71ocion7ra0m2s9fcrqjdk@4ax.com> <slrnbglqp8.os1.jon+usenet@snowy.squish.net> <h7rlgvkogjr3t8geb36v6jjk4u5n9cdm2s@4ax.com> <slrnbgltd7.os1.jon+usenet@snowy.squish.net> <moulgv8ehi6680j6to1ai6tlmopm0srons@4ax.com> <slrnbgm1jg.sv7.jon+usenet@snowy.squish.net> <K6GcnTvaKdGQ6ZaiRTvUqA@speakeasy.net>
Message-ID: <slrnbgnpst.lpa.jon+usenet@snowy.squish.net>

In article <K6GcnTvaKdGQ6ZaiRTvUqA at speakeasy.net>, A.M. Kuchling wrote:
> Jon, there's no point in debating Afanasiy about CGI.  He's convinced
> packages for Python web programming support are inadequate (*all* of them),
> is unable to explain what the problem is or what his requirements are, and
> doesn't seem to really understand the subject (e.g. thinking FastCGI is
> basically the same as regular CGI).  Ignoring him is the best course.

Oh, ok, ta ;-)



From ssthapa at classes.cs.uchicago.edu  Mon Jul 21 14:53:19 2003
From: ssthapa at classes.cs.uchicago.edu (Suchandra Thapa)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 18:53:19 GMT
Subject: "Pure Python" MySQL module like Net::MySQL
References: <bfddmi$7nk$1@eeyore.INS.cwru.edu> <mailman.1058718091.1276.python-list@python.org> <7xk7advy4c.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <zEWSa.19$N4.8696@news.uchicago.edu>

Paul Rubin <> wrote:
> What the heck?  If the wire protocol isn't part of the official
> external interface, then how on earth are external applications
> supposed to talk to the database?  They certainly can't expect you to
> use black-box client libraries if they're at all serious about being
> in the same league with Oracle.


    Actually, I think they do.  With a change to a gpl licensed client library,
in mysql 4.x, I think mysql ab is trying to get more revenue from anyone using
the mysql database for commercial purposes.  Forcing all access to the database
to go through their client libraries is one of the things that made this
possible.

-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Suchandra Thapa                       
s-thapa-11 at NOSPAMalumni.uchicago.edu  
----------------------------------------------------------------------------



From ed at UDel.Edu  Fri Jul 25 16:22:17 2003
From: ed at UDel.Edu (Ed Phillips)
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 16:22:17 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Beefing up socket.ssl(...)
In-Reply-To: <16161.36214.435946.860897@montanaro.dyndns.org>
References: <ZPaUa.6$gZ.133@news.oracle.com>       
 <84e0f331.0307251036.6504b16a@posting.google.com>       
 <Pine.SOL.4.53L.0307251453400.8134@mahler.udel.edu>
 <16161.36214.435946.860897@montanaro.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.53L.0307251607120.9371@mahler.udel.edu>

On Fri, 25 Jul 2003, Skip Montanaro wrote:

>     Ed> From looking at Modules/socketmodule.c in 2.2.2 and 2.2.3, it
>     Ed> appears that only a tiny bit of support for SSL has been added.
>     Ed> Specifically, unless I'm misunderstanding the operation of the code,
>     Ed> there's no way to verify the certificate presented by a server.
>
> Note that since 2.2.3 is just a bugfix release, you shouldn't expect any
> increase in functionality.  I'm mildly surprised that you noticed any
> functional changes between 2.2.2 and 2.2.3.

Sorry, I didn't mean to imply they were different... I just meant that I
looked at them both (not realizing they should be the same except for bug
fixes).  By "only a tiny bit of support for SSL has been added", I meant
"... to Python in general as of 2.2.2 and 2.2.3".

> I suggest you take 2.3c2 out for a spin and see if it has more of the
> features you're after.  (2.3final is due out by the end of the month.)

Hmmmm... well, I guess I can take a look at socketmodule.c in 2.3c2 and
see if it's any different than previous versions as far as the amount of
SSL functionality goes.

> In any case, if you have patches to submit, please use SourceForge and
> note that any functional improvements will be targetted at 2.4 at this
> point. You can find more about patch submission at the Patch Submission
> Guidelines page:
>
>      http://www.python.org/patches/

I'm not sure whether this "functional change" would be considered a "bug
fix" or "feature addition".  The SSL support in socketmodule.c seems to be
lacking almost to the point of being "unusable"... I can't imagine anyone
actually using it for anything "real" in it's current state, and in that
sense, it may be legitimate to call my changes a "bug fix".

I guess I could attack it either way.  I could modify the existing
socket.ssl() pieces to work "better" (at least in the normal "act like a
web browser and verify server certs" sense), or I could add new
"features".  It might be nice to have a socket.sslclient() method that
would verify the server cert and optionally authenticate with a client
certificate (although the client auth part is probably out of my league at
this point), along with a socket.sslserver() method which would perform
the normal server-side SSL duties.

Or I could just hack on socketmodule.c with every new Python release and
hope that someone eventually adds better SSL support.  Anyone working on
that already?

Thanks,

	Ed

Ed Phillips <ed at udel.edu> University of Delaware (302) 831-6082
Systems Programmer III, Network and Systems Services
finger -l ed at polycut.nss.udel.edu for PGP public key




From peter.barth at t-online.de  Tue Jul 15 11:32:38 2003
From: peter.barth at t-online.de (Peter Barth)
Date: 15 Jul 2003 08:32:38 -0700
Subject: Mix lambda and list comprehension?
References: <6f5b3f88.0307142302.1a1531f3@posting.google.com> <hMNQa.1134$I4.740@nwrdny01.gnilink.net>
Message-ID: <6f5b3f88.0307150732.1b0a2526@posting.google.com>

Thanks a lot, works fine.
However, the solution does not really feel "pythonesque".
Is it considered a usability bug or fine as is?
- Peter

"Raymond Hettinger" <vze4rx4y at verizon.net> wrote in message news:<hMNQa.1134$I4.740 at nwrdny01.gnilink.net>...
> Try this:
> 
> >>> [lambda x, y=y:x+y for y in range(10)][4](2)
> 6
> 
> 
> It is important to bind y in a closure at the time
> the lambda is defined.  Otherwise, y remains unbound
> until you invoke the function call.  At that time, the most
> recent value of y is the last value in the range loop (namely, 9).
> 
> 
> Raymond Hettinger
> 
> 
> 
> "Peter Barth" <peter.barth at t-online.de> wrote in message
> news:6f5b3f88.0307142302.1a1531f3 at posting.google.com...
> > Hi,
> > trying to mix lambda expresions and list comprehension
> > doesn't seem to work.
> > ---
> > >>> [lambda x:x+y for y in range(10)][9](2)
>  11
> > >>> [lambda x:x+y for y in range(10)][4](2)
> > 11
> > ---
> > I expected the second expression to return 6.
> > What did I do wrong? Any hints?
> > Thanks
> > - Peter



From irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl  Tue Jul  1 14:01:59 2003
From: irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 20:01:59 +0200
Subject: remove special characters from line
In-Reply-To: <3f01a27d$0$43847$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net>
References: <3f01a27d$0$43847$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net>
Message-ID: <3f01cc95$0$49112$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

Chris Rennert wrote:
> Hello all,
> 
> If I have a line like this
> 
> ?blah blah blah blah blah
> 
> I know I could do a slice like this [1:] to pull everything but the special
> character, but what if I have several lines in a file.
> I am not sure how I would detect a special character like that.  I would
> just like to pull everything from those lines (and the special character
> always appears as the first character, but not on every line) except for the
> special characters.

What about

 >>> special="*!@"   # or whatever characters are special
 >>> text="*blah blah !! blah blah at blah blah!"
 >>> ''.join([c for c in text if c not in special])
'blah blah  blah blahblah blah'


--Irmen de Jong




From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Sat Jul 26 18:10:47 2003
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 18:10:47 -0400
Subject: Static typing
References: <LvdUa.905$DU.696@fe12.atl2.webusenet.com> <yfssmotnj8p.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <vi5v3bhcohkp12@news.supernews.com>

"Alexander Schmolck" <a.schmolck at gmx.net> wrote in message
news:yfssmotnj8p.fsf at black132.ex.ac.uk...
> "Michael Muller" <mmuller at enduden.spam.filter.com> writes:
>
> > Is there currently any plan to introduce static typing in any future
> > version of Python?  (I'm not entirely sure that "static typing" is the
right
> > term: what I'm talking about is the declaration of types for variables,
> > parameters and function return values).
> >
> > I know there was a "types SIG" which introduced several proposals, but
it
> > expired quite a while ago, and I was wondering whether whether some
> > consensus has been reached on the subject or if it has just been shelved
> > indefinitely.
>
> I think the traits package hasn't been mentioned so far:
>
> http://www.scipy.org/site_content/traits/Traits_Users_Guide.htm

Interesting. I've bookmarked it for careful consideration.

Personally, I'm against static typing in it's generally accepted
form, but there are a couple of capabilities I like about it, the biggest
of which is the ability to get type information via reflection. I suspect
I might also like the ability to have a type inference engine verify
some aspects of my program, but since I've never used one, I
don't know how it would work in practice.

The other major thing I'd like about it is the ability to provide
generic support for things like display widgets based on the
type information.

I just don't like the syntax getting in the way.

John Roth

>
> 'as





From jocsch at phreaker.net  Sun Jul  6 14:30:22 2003
From: jocsch at phreaker.net (Markus Joschko)
Date: Sun, 06 Jul 2003 20:30:22 +0200
Subject: absolute beginners question about API documentation
References: <be9nn3$2k0j3$1@ID-47851.news.dfncis.de> <be9pdo$2kjrj$1@ID-139865.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <be9qdk$2po93$1@ID-47851.news.dfncis.de>

Dave Kuhlman wrote:

> Markus Joschko wrote:
> 
>> Hi all,
>> I' new to python programming but a longtime java programmer.
>> Is there an API documentation like the javadoc API from java?
>> 
>> I'm want to know all methods I can use on dictionaries. Where can
>> I get an overview about these?
>> I looked on python.org but haven't found such an overview.
>> 
> 
> If you are asking about the *Python* API, then look here:
> 
>     http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/typesmapping.html
> 

Thanks. That's it. I hadn't suspect it there.



From gumuz at looze.net  Thu Jul 24 09:33:04 2003
From: gumuz at looze.net (Guyon Morée)
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 15:33:04 +0200
Subject: i've been close to python's cradle :)
Message-ID: <3f1fdf40$0$8301$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net>

recently i've visited SARAH, the academic supercomputer in Amsterdam,
Holland.
this is next to the CWI, where Guido founded Python....

...Yeah!...





From pinard at iro.umontreal.ca  Thu Jul 24 09:19:53 2003
From: pinard at iro.umontreal.ca (Francois Pinard)
Date: 24 Jul 2003 09:19:53 -0400
Subject: file.close()
In-Reply-To: <edITa.131868$Ph3.17333@sccrnsc04>
References: <edITa.131868$Ph3.17333@sccrnsc04>
Message-ID: <oq4r1cdpty.fsf@alcyon.progiciels-bpi.ca>

[Bryan]

> I'm curious to know how others handle the closing of files.  [...] I'm
> aware that files will automatically be closed when the process exits.

For one, I systematically avoid cluttering my code with unneeded `close'.
The advantages are simplicity and legibility, both utterly important to me.

However, I do understand that if I ever have to move a Python script
to Jython, I will have to revise my scripts for adding the clutter I am
sparing today.  I'm quite accepting to do that revision if this occurs.
Until then, I prefer keeping my scripts as neat as possible.

For me, explicitely closing a file, for which the only reference is about
to disappear through function exiting, would be very similar to using
`del' on any variable I happened to use in that function: gross overkill...

The only reason to call `close' explicitly is when there is a need to close
prematurely.  Absolutely no doubt that such needs exist at times.  But
closing all the time "just in case" is symptomatic of unsure programming.
Or else, it is using Python while still thinking in other languages.

-- 
Fran?ois Pinard   http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/~pinard




From e.d.andersen at mosek.com  Wed Jul  9 05:19:30 2003
From: e.d.andersen at mosek.com (edadk)
Date: 9 Jul 2003 02:19:30 -0700
Subject: Python 2.2 build problems on AIX
Message-ID: <ebc0c915.0307090119.185e3b30@posting.google.com>

Hi

I building Python on AIX using

make

However, I get some errors when building

readline
gdbm

and

-ltermcap

is missing. See below. Can those problems be fixed?

Erling

building 'readline' extension
cc_r -DNDEBUG -O -I.
-I/mnt/mds/metawrk/edanders/Python-2.2.3/./Include
-I/usr/local/include -I/mnt/mds/metawrk/edanders/Pytho
2.2.3/Include -I/mnt/mds/metawrk/edanders/Python-2.2.3 -c
/mnt/mds/metawrk/edanders/Python-2.2.3/Modules/readline.c -o build/t
p.aix-5.1-2.2/readline.o
"/mnt/mds/metawrk/edanders/Python-2.2.3/Modules/readline.c", line
17.10: 1506-296 (S) #include file <readline/readline.h> not
und.
"/mnt/mds/metawrk/edanders/Python-2.2.3/Modules/readline.c", line
18.10: 1506-296 (S) #include file <readline/history.h> not f
nd.
"/mnt/mds/metawrk/edanders/Python-2.2.3/Modules/readline.c", line
278.21: 1506-045 (S) Undeclared identifier rl_completer_word
reak_characters.
"/mnt/mds/metawrk/edanders/Python-2.2.3/Modules/readline.c", line
314.36: 1506-045 (S) Undeclared identifier rl_completer_word
reak_characters.
"/mnt/mds/metawrk/edanders/Python-2.2.3/Modules/readline.c", line
359.36: 1506-045 (S) Undeclared identifier rl_line_buffer.
"/mnt/mds/metawrk/edanders/Python-2.2.3/Modules/readline.c", line
510.34: 1506-068 (W) Operation between types "unsigned char*
 and "int" is not allowed.
"/mnt/mds/metawrk/edanders/Python-2.2.3/Modules/readline.c", line
518.9: 1506-045 (S) Undeclared identifier rl_readline_name.
"/mnt/mds/metawrk/edanders/Python-2.2.3/Modules/readline.c", line
520.27: 1506-045 (S) Undeclared identifier rl_insert.
"/mnt/mds/metawrk/edanders/Python-2.2.3/Modules/readline.c", line
522.35: 1506-045 (S) Undeclared identifier rl_complete.
"/mnt/mds/metawrk/edanders/Python-2.2.3/Modules/readline.c", line
522.48: 1506-045 (S) Undeclared identifier emacs_meta_keymap
"/mnt/mds/metawrk/edanders/Python-2.2.3/Modules/readline.c", line
525.38: 1506-275 (S) Unexpected text ')' encountered.
"/mnt/mds/metawrk/edanders/Python-2.2.3/Modules/readline.c", line
525.28: 1506-045 (S) Undeclared identifier Function.
"/mnt/mds/metawrk/edanders/Python-2.2.3/Modules/readline.c", line
525.54: 1506-277 (S) Syntax error: possible missing ')' or '
?
"/mnt/mds/metawrk/edanders/Python-2.2.3/Modules/readline.c", line
525.9: 1506-045 (S) Undeclared identifier rl_startup_hook.
"/mnt/mds/metawrk/edanders/Python-2.2.3/Modules/readline.c", line
532.9: 1506-045 (S) Undeclared identifier rl_completer_word_
eak_characters.
"/mnt/mds/metawrk/edanders/Python-2.2.3/Modules/readline.c", line
580.9: 1506-045 (S) Undeclared identifier rl_event_hook.
"/mnt/mds/metawrk/edanders/Python-2.2.3/Modules/readline.c", line
581.11: 1506-068 (W) Operation between types "unsigned char*
and "int" is not allowed.
WARNING: building of extension "readline" failed: command 'cc_r'
failed with exit status 1
skipping 'crypt' extension (up-to-date)
skipping '_socket' extension (up-to-date)
skipping 'dbm' extension (up-to-date)
building 'gdbm' extension
cc_r -DNDEBUG -O -I.
-I/mnt/mds/metawrk/edanders/Python-2.2.3/./Include
-I/usr/local/include -I/mnt/mds/metawrk/edanders/Pytho
2.2.3/Include -I/mnt/mds/metawrk/edanders/Python-2.2.3 -c
/mnt/mds/metawrk/edanders/Python-2.2.3/Modules/gdbmmodule.c -o build
emp.aix-5.1-2.2/gdbmmodule.o
"/mnt/mds/metawrk/edanders/Python-2.2.3/Modules/gdbmmodule.c", line
12.10: 1506-296 (S) #include file "gdbm.h" not found.
"/mnt/mds/metawrk/edanders/Python-2.2.3/Modules/gdbmmodule.c", line
34.5: 1506-046 (S) Syntax error.
"/mnt/mds/metawrk/edanders/Python-2.2.3/Modules/gdbmmodule.c", line
68.14: 1506-022 (S) "di_dbm" is not a member of "struct {.
}".
"/mnt/mds/metawrk/edanders/Python-2.2.3/Modules/gdbmmodule.c", line
72.53: 1506-045 (S) Undeclared identifier gdbm_errno.
"/mnt/mds/metawrk/edanders/Python-2.2.3/Modules/gdbmmodule.c", line
84.13: 1506-022 (S) "di_dbm" is not a member of "struct {.
}".
"/mnt/mds/metawrk/edanders/Python-2.2.3/Modules/gdbmmodule.c", line
85.24: 1506-022 (S) "di_dbm" is not a member of "struct {.
}".
"/mnt/mds/metawrk/edanders/Python-2.2.3/Modules/gdbmmodule.c", line
92.13: 1506-022 (S) "di_dbm" is not a member of "struct {.
}".
"/mnt/mds/metawrk/edanders/Python-2.2.3/Modules/gdbmmodule.c", line
97.15: 1506-275 (S) Unexpected text key encountered.
"/mnt/mds/metawrk/edanders/Python-2.2.3/Modules/gdbmmodule.c", line
97.9: 1506-045 (S) Undeclared identifier datum.
"/mnt/mds/metawrk/edanders/Python-2.2.3/Modules/gdbmmodule.c", line
99.9: 1506-045 (S) Undeclared identifier okey.
"/mnt/mds/metawrk/edanders/Python-2.2.3/Modules/gdbmmodule.c", line
102.36: 1506-022 (S) "di_dbm" is not a member of "struct {
.}".
"/mnt/mds/metawrk/edanders/Python-2.2.3/Modules/gdbmmodule.c", line
102.14: 1506-045 (S) Undeclared identifier key.
"/mnt/mds/metawrk/edanders/Python-2.2.3/Modules/gdbmmodule.c", line
103.37: 1506-022 (S) "di_dbm" is not a member of "struct {
.}".
"/mnt/mds/metawrk/edanders/Python-2.2.3/Modules/gdbmmodule.c", line
117.11: 1506-275 (S) Unexpected text drec encountered.
"/mnt/mds/metawrk/edanders/Python-2.2.3/Modules/gdbmmodule.c", line
117.5: 1506-045 (S) Undeclared identifier datum.
"/mnt/mds/metawrk/edanders/Python-2.2.3/Modules/gdbmmodule.c", line
119.34: 1506-045 (S) Undeclared identifier krec.
"/mnt/mds/metawrk/edanders/Python-2.2.3/Modules/gdbmmodule.c", line
122.13: 1506-022 (S) "di_dbm" is not a member of "struct {
.}".
"/mnt/mds/metawrk/edanders/Python-2.2.3/Modules/gdbmmodule.c", line
127.27: 1506-022 (S) "di_dbm" is not a member of "struct {
.}".
"/mnt/mds/metawrk/edanders/Python-2.2.3/Modules/gdbmmodule.c", line
127.5: 1506-045 (S) Undeclared identifier drec.
"/mnt/mds/metawrk/edanders/Python-2.2.3/Modules/gdbmmodule.c", line
141.11: 1506-275 (S) Unexpected text krec encountered.
"/mnt/mds/metawrk/edanders/Python-2.2.3/Modules/gdbmmodule.c", line
141.5: 1506-045 (S) Undeclared identifier datum.
"/mnt/mds/metawrk/edanders/Python-2.2.3/Modules/gdbmmodule.c", line
143.32: 1506-045 (S) Undeclared identifier krec.
"/mnt/mds/metawrk/edanders/Python-2.2.3/Modules/gdbmmodule.c", line
148.13: 1506-022 (S) "di_dbm" is not a member of "struct {
.}".
"/mnt/mds/metawrk/edanders/Python-2.2.3/Modules/gdbmmodule.c", line
155.29: 1506-022 (S) "di_dbm" is not a member of "struct {
.}".
"/mnt/mds/metawrk/edanders/Python-2.2.3/Modules/gdbmmodule.c", line
162.36: 1506-045 (S) Undeclared identifier drec.
"/mnt/mds/metawrk/edanders/Python-2.2.3/Modules/gdbmmodule.c", line
168.28: 1506-022 (S) "di_dbm" is not a member of "struct {
.}".
"/mnt/mds/metawrk/edanders/Python-2.2.3/Modules/gdbmmodule.c", line
168.48: 1506-045 (S) Undeclared identifier GDBM_REPLACE.
"/mnt/mds/metawrk/edanders/Python-2.2.3/Modules/gdbmmodule.c", line
173.47: 1506-045 (S) Undeclared identifier gdbm_errno.
"/mnt/mds/metawrk/edanders/Python-2.2.3/Modules/gdbmmodule.c", line
195.13: 1506-022 (S) "di_dbm" is not a member of "struct {
.}".
"/mnt/mds/metawrk/edanders/Python-2.2.3/Modules/gdbmmodule.c", line
196.24: 1506-022 (S) "di_dbm" is not a member of "struct {
.}".
"/mnt/mds/metawrk/edanders/Python-2.2.3/Modules/gdbmmodule.c", line
197.9: 1506-022 (S) "di_dbm" is not a member of "struct {.
}".
"/mnt/mds/metawrk/edanders/Python-2.2.3/Modules/gdbmmodule.c", line
210.11: 1506-275 (S) Unexpected text key encountered.
"/mnt/mds/metawrk/edanders/Python-2.2.3/Modules/gdbmmodule.c", line
210.5: 1506-045 (S) Undeclared identifier datum.
"/mnt/mds/metawrk/edanders/Python-2.2.3/Modules/gdbmmodule.c", line
220.5: 1506-022 (S) "di_dbm" is not a member of "struct {.
}".
"/mnt/mds/metawrk/edanders/Python-2.2.3/Modules/gdbmmodule.c", line
226.29: 1506-022 (S) "di_dbm" is not a member of "struct {
.}".
"/mnt/mds/metawrk/edanders/Python-2.2.3/Modules/gdbmmodule.c", line
226.5: 1506-045 (S) Undeclared identifier key.
"/mnt/mds/metawrk/edanders/Python-2.2.3/Modules/gdbmmodule.c", line
241.36: 1506-022 (S) "di_dbm" is not a member of "struct {
.}".
"/mnt/mds/metawrk/edanders/Python-2.2.3/Modules/gdbmmodule.c", line
241.9: 1506-045 (S) Undeclared identifier nextkey.
"/mnt/mds/metawrk/edanders/Python-2.2.3/Modules/gdbmmodule.c", line
255.11: 1506-275 (S) Unexpected text key encountered.
"/mnt/mds/metawrk/edanders/Python-2.2.3/Modules/gdbmmodule.c", line
255.5: 1506-045 (S) Undeclared identifier datum.
"/mnt/mds/metawrk/edanders/Python-2.2.3/Modules/gdbmmodule.c", line
257.48: 1506-045 (S) Undeclared identifier key.
"/mnt/mds/metawrk/edanders/Python-2.2.3/Modules/gdbmmodule.c", line
259.5: 1506-022 (S) "di_dbm" is not a member of "struct {.
}".
"/mnt/mds/metawrk/edanders/Python-2.2.3/Modules/gdbmmodule.c", line
260.50: 1506-022 (S) "di_dbm" is not a member of "struct {
.}".
"/mnt/mds/metawrk/edanders/Python-2.2.3/Modules/gdbmmodule.c", line
274.11: 1506-275 (S) Unexpected text key encountered.
"/mnt/mds/metawrk/edanders/Python-2.2.3/Modules/gdbmmodule.c", line
274.5: 1506-045 (S) Undeclared identifier datum.
"/mnt/mds/metawrk/edanders/Python-2.2.3/Modules/gdbmmodule.c", line
278.5: 1506-022 (S) "di_dbm" is not a member of "struct {.
}".
"/mnt/mds/metawrk/edanders/Python-2.2.3/Modules/gdbmmodule.c", line
279.29: 1506-022 (S) "di_dbm" is not a member of "struct {
.}".
"/mnt/mds/metawrk/edanders/Python-2.2.3/Modules/gdbmmodule.c", line
279.5: 1506-045 (S) Undeclared identifier key.
"/mnt/mds/metawrk/edanders/Python-2.2.3/Modules/gdbmmodule.c", line
306.11: 1506-275 (S) Unexpected text key encountered.
"/mnt/mds/metawrk/edanders/Python-2.2.3/Modules/gdbmmodule.c", line
306.5: 1506-045 (S) Undeclared identifier datum.
"/mnt/mds/metawrk/edanders/Python-2.2.3/Modules/gdbmmodule.c", line
308.48: 1506-045 (S) Undeclared identifier key.
"/mnt/mds/metawrk/edanders/Python-2.2.3/Modules/gdbmmodule.c", line
310.5: 1506-022 (S) "di_dbm" is not a member of "struct {.
}".
"/mnt/mds/metawrk/edanders/Python-2.2.3/Modules/gdbmmodule.c", line
311.32: 1506-022 (S) "di_dbm" is not a member of "struct {
.}".
"/mnt/mds/metawrk/edanders/Python-2.2.3/Modules/gdbmmodule.c", line
311.5: 1506-045 (S) Undeclared identifier nextkey.
"/mnt/mds/metawrk/edanders/Python-2.2.3/Modules/gdbmmodule.c", line
336.5: 1506-022 (S) "di_dbm" is not a member of "struct {.
}".
"/mnt/mds/metawrk/edanders/Python-2.2.3/Modules/gdbmmodule.c", line
338.29: 1506-022 (S) "di_dbm" is not a member of "struct {
.}".
"/mnt/mds/metawrk/edanders/Python-2.2.3/Modules/gdbmmodule.c", line
342.53: 1506-045 (S) Undeclared identifier gdbm_errno.
"/mnt/mds/metawrk/edanders/Python-2.2.3/Modules/gdbmmodule.c", line
359.5: 1506-022 (S) "di_dbm" is not a member of "struct {.
}".
"/mnt/mds/metawrk/edanders/Python-2.2.3/Modules/gdbmmodule.c", line
360.19: 1506-022 (S) "di_dbm" is not a member of "struct {
.}".
"/mnt/mds/metawrk/edanders/Python-2.2.3/Modules/gdbmmodule.c", line
445.18: 1506-045 (S) Undeclared identifier GDBM_READER.
"/mnt/mds/metawrk/edanders/Python-2.2.3/Modules/gdbmmodule.c", line
448.18: 1506-045 (S) Undeclared identifier GDBM_WRITER.
"/mnt/mds/metawrk/edanders/Python-2.2.3/Modules/gdbmmodule.c", line
451.18: 1506-045 (S) Undeclared identifier GDBM_WRCREAT.
"/mnt/mds/metawrk/edanders/Python-2.2.3/Modules/gdbmmodule.c", line
454.18: 1506-045 (S) Undeclared identifier GDBM_NEWDB.
WARNING: building of extension "gdbm" failed: command 'cc_r' failed
with exit status 1
skipping 'termios' extension (up-to-date)
skipping 'resource' extension (up-to-date)
skipping 'nis' extension (up-to-date)
building '_curses' extension
skipping /mnt/mds/metawrk/edanders/Python-2.2.3/Modules/_cursesmodule.c
(build/temp.aix-5.1-2.2/_cursesmodule.o up-to-date)
./Modules/ld_so_aix cc_r -bI:Modules/python.exp
build/temp.aix-5.1-2.2/_cursesmodule.o -L/usr/local/lib -lcurses
-ltermcap -o
ild/lib.aix-5.1-2.2/_curses.so
ld: 0706-006 Cannot find or open library file: -l termcap
        ld:open(): No such file or directory
*** WARNING: renaming "_curses" since importing it failed: from module
build/lib.aix-5.1-2.2/_curses.so No such file or direct
y
error: No such file or directory
make: The error code from the last command is 1.



From bokr at oz.net  Mon Jul 21 20:15:48 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 22 Jul 2003 00:15:48 GMT
Subject: recognizing empty iterators
References: <2259b0e2.0307210626.11a1bbf1@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bfhvnk$hvd$0@216.39.172.122>

On 21 Jul 2003 07:26:15 -0700, mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato) wrote:

>After a recent thread on .endswith, I have been thinking about iterators.
>I realized that I don't know a satisfactory way to check if an
>iterator is empty. In other words I am looking for an
>"isempty" function to use in "if" statements such as
>
>if isempty(iterator):
>   do_something()
>
>without side effects. Here are some unsatisfactory ways of implementing
>"isempty":
>
>#1: converting to a list or tuple
>def isempty(iterator):
>    return not list(iterator)
>
>Easy, but one has to create the entire list, thus defecting the basic
>purpose of the iterator, i.e. lazy evaluation.
>
>#2: checking for StopIteration
>def isempty(iterator):
>    try:
>        iterator.next()
>    except StopIteration:
>        return True
>    else:
>        return False
>
>This works, for instance
>
>print isempty(iter([]))
>
>gives True and 
>
>it=iter([1,2,3])
>print isempty(it)
>
>gives False. However, there is a side effect: after the check, the
>iterator has advanced of one step and now "it.next()" gives 2, not 1. 
>In order this to work without side effects, I should be able to restart 
>the iterator from the beginning, but I don't know how to do that.
>Is it possible?
>
>#3: comparing with the empty iterator
>
>emptyiterator=iter([])
>
>it=iter([])
>
>if it == emptyiterator: print 'Ok!'
>
>This simply doesn't work.
>
>I wonder if the itertools module should contain a function to check for
>empty iterators, thus simplifying my life ;) Of course, I may well be
>missing something obvious, if so, please enlighten me.
>
If iterators had a .peek() method for 1-item lookahead, maybe that would
be easy to implement. If empty, it could raise StopIteration, and otherwise
return what next() would return, without disturbing the state w.r.t. next().

Alternatively, it could return [nextitem] vs [] if at the end
(without raising StopIteration).

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From postmaster at 127.0.0.1  Wed Jul 16 09:25:46 2003
From: postmaster at 127.0.0.1 (David McNab)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 01:25:46 +1200
Subject: How about using python to write a CMS?
References: <bf38et$sp9$1@news.seed.net.tw> <3f153a2b$0$97201$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
Message-ID: <pan.2003.07.16.13.25.46.994382@127.0.0.1>

On Wed, 16 Jul 2003 13:44:35 +0200, Max M paused, took a deep breath, then
came out with:

> ?????? wrote:
> 
>> To write a CMS, everyone is thinking about PHP, but, what do you think if I
>> am using python to write a Content Management System?
> 
> 
> It can be done, and better than in PHP, but do yourself the favour of 
> checking out Plone.
> 
> www.plone.org
> 
> 
> regards Max M

Plone looks nice. *really* nice!

But it runs on top of Zope - a requirement which locks it out of a lot of
hosting situations.




From mickel at csc.fi  Fri Jul  4 01:15:17 2003
From: mickel at csc.fi (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Mickel_Gr=F6nroos?=)
Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 08:15:17 +0300 (EEST)
Subject: Python Code Snippets
In-Reply-To: <be1hs0$111s$1@biggoron.nerim.net>
References: <be1hs0$111s$1@biggoron.nerim.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0307040813580.25521-100000@sampo.csc.fi>

On Thu, 3 Jul 2003, Aur?lien G?ron wrote:

> Does anyone know where I can find a lot of Python code snippets?

Try:

	http://www.faqts.com/knowledge_base/index.phtml/fid/538

Cheers,

/Mickel

--
Mickel Gr?nroos, application specialist, linguistics, Research support, CSC
PL 405 (Tekniikantie 15 a D), 02101 Espoo, Finland, phone +358-9-4572237
CSC is the Finnish IT center for science, www.csc.fi






From staschuk at telusplanet.net  Wed Jul 23 18:40:00 2003
From: staschuk at telusplanet.net (Steven Taschuk)
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 16:40:00 -0600
Subject: How does Mr. Martelli's Borg recipe work ?
In-Reply-To: <bfmtbe$6lt$0@216.39.172.122>; from bokr@oz.net on Wed, Jul 23, 2003 at 09:05:50PM +0000
References: <764b8294.0307221520.18017b09@posting.google.com> <vhru01p6s53790@news.supernews.com> <mailman.1058985883.11441.python-list@python.org> <bfmtbe$6lt$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <20030723164000.A1684@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>

Quoth Bengt Richter:
  [borg vs singleton]
> How about just
> 
>     import zerolengthfile as borginstancename
> 
> and using it? E.g., [...]

That would be fine in many cases, I'm sure.

Modules don't do properties (or other descriptor magic), though.

-- 
Steven Taschuk                                7\ 7'Z {&~         .
staschuk at telusplanet.net                        Y r          --/hG-
                                            (__/ )_             1^1`




From romany at actimize.com  Sun Jul 27 09:23:50 2003
From: romany at actimize.com (Roman Yakovenko)
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 16:23:50 +0300
Subject: datetime 2 win variant datetime
Message-ID: <91BFE89EFFA2904E9A4C3ACB4E5F2DF5027AFB@exchange.adrembi.com>

Hi. It seems I need a little help with this subject.
I am trying to convert python datetime ( 2.3 ) to windows variant
that keeps date and time but I failed.

Can smbd give me a hint?

Thanks.





From andy at wild-flower.co.uk  Sun Jul 20 10:25:16 2003
From: andy at wild-flower.co.uk (Andy Jewell)
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 15:25:16 +0100
Subject: Thanks comp.lang.python!!!
In-Reply-To: <3F1A0F15.101@hotmail.com>
References: <3F1A0F15.101@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <200307201524.47584.andy@wild-flower.co.uk>

On Sunday 20 Jul 2003 4:40 am, hokiegal99 wrote:
> While migrating a lot of Mac OS9 machines to PCs, we encountered several
> problems with Mac file and directory names. Below is a list of the
> problems:
>
> 1. Macs allow characters in file and dir names that are not acceptable
> on PCs. Specifically this set of characters [*<>?\|/]
>
> 2. Mac files and dirs that contained a "/" in their names would ftp to
> the server OK, but the "/" would be translated to "%2f". So, a Mac file
> named 7/19/03 would ftp as 7%2f19%2f03... not a very desirable filename,
> especially when there are hundreds of them.
>
> 3. The last problem was spaces at the beginning and ending of file and
> dir names. We encountered hundreds of files and dirs like this on the
> Macs. They would ftp up to the Linux server OK but when the Windows PC
> attempted to d/l them, the ftp transaction would stop and complain about
> not finding files whenever it tried to transfer a file. Dirs with spaces
> at the beginning or ending would literally crash the ftp client.
>

Shame on Apple for allowing subversive filenames! ;-)

> These were problems that we did not expect. So, we wrote a script to
> clean up these names. Since all of the files were bring uploaded to a
> Linux ftp server, we decided to do the cleaning there. Python is a
> simple, easily readable programming language, so we chose to use it.
> Long story short, attached to this email is the script. If anyone can
> use it to address Mac to PC migrations, feel free to.
>

You never do, until they bite you!

> The only caveat is that the script uses os.walk. I don't think Python
> 2.2.x comes with os.walk. To address this, we d/l 2.3b2 and have used it
> extensively with this script w/o any problems. And, someone here on
> comp.lang.python told me that os.walk could be incorporated into 2.2.x
> too, but I never tried to do that as 2.3b2 worked just fine.
>

There is os.path.walk, instead.

> Thanks to everyone who contributed to this script. Much of it is
> straight from advice that I received here. Also, if anyone sees how it
> can be improved, let me know. For now, I'm satisfied with it as it works
> "well enough" for what I need it to do, however, I'm trying to become a
> better programmer so I appreciated feedback from those who are much more
> experienced than I am.
>

You're welcome.  We all come here to learn... :-))

> Special Thanks to Andy Jewell, Bengt Richter and Ethan Mindlace Fremen
> as they wrote much of the code initially and gave a lot of great tips!!!

:-))

Some additional comments on your source-code, if I may.  The following points 
will help you make your program much more efficient:

1) You'd normally place your functions in a separate section, usually at the 
top of your program, rather than 'in the middle'.  It will work fine this 
way, but it's a bit less readable.

2) There seem to be some indentation anomalies, probably because of using a 
combination of tabs and spaces.  This WILL bite you sometime in the future: 
best to stick to one or t'other, preferably just spaces: the convention in 
Python is to indent by 4 spaces for each 'suite',  or logical 'block' of 
code.

3) I'm not sure you quite get the recursive bit yet!  Simply calling your 
function lots of times in succession doesn't cut it... all that happens is 
that each time you call it, it does the same thing, effectively doing the job 
10 times...  What you'd have to do is call the function from *WITHIN* itself, 
i.e. in the body, like:

def recurse(dir,depth=0):
    """ walk dir's subdirectories recursively, printing their name """
    # process list of files in dir...
    for entry in os.listdirs(dir):
        # if the current one is a directory...
        if os.path.isdir(os.join(dir,entry)):
            print "    "*depth+"+"+entry
            # recurse (call ourselves)
            recurse(os.join(dir,entry),depth+1)

** NOTE: Looking at the docs, if you use os.walk, you don't need to do the 
recursion yourself, as os.walk does it for you!

3) You're still repeating yourself several times, too.  You can get away with 
JUST ONE os.walk() loop:

for root, dirs, files in os.walk(setpath):
    for thisfile in dirs+files:
        badchars=bad.findall(thisfile)
        newname=thisfile.strip()  # strip off leading and trailing whitespace
        # replace any bad characters...
        for badchar in badchars:
            newname=neaname.replace(badchar,"-")
        # rename thisfile ONLY if newname is different...
        if newname != thisfile: # check if it's changed:
            print renaming thisfile,newname,"in",root
            os.rename(os.path.join(root,thisfile),os.path.join(root,newname)

!! that replaces what your four for loops do... 8-0

hope you find this useful :-)

-andyj        





From bdesth.nospam at removeme.free.fr  Sun Jul 13 18:15:44 2003
From: bdesth.nospam at removeme.free.fr (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 22:15:44 +0000
Subject: How to crash Python in 1 easy step (python 2.2.2)
References: <2e363c08.0307130944.4c470bc3@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3F11DA10.6000601@removeme.free.fr>

Paul Miller wrote:
> I'm not sure if this is a python bug or a bug in an associated
> library, and I'm not even sure how to correctly report it, but here is
>   Anytime python is accepting keyboard input, whether it's with
> raw_input, or sitting on the command line waiting for the user to type
> code, you can crash python by holding ctrl+shift and then pressing
> enter.
> 
> This is on a RedHat 9.0 system running on an Athlon 600.  Basically
> everything about the system is standard except for what's been updated
> by RedHat itself.  If anyone who has the time and ability to track
> down this bug needs more information, please email me.

No problem here with Python 2.2.x
(where x = cantRememberAndToLazyToCheckButThinkIts1)

Bruno




From delobelle at blueyonder.co.uk  Tue Jul  8 08:12:46 2003
From: delobelle at blueyonder.co.uk (Arnaud Delobelle)
Date: 08 Jul 2003 13:12:46 +0100
Subject: robot programming game in python
Message-ID: <878yr9tdxd.fsf@blueyonder.co.uk>

Hi all,

I have written a little while ago in Python a game whose aim is to
program a (or several) robots so that they move around in a maze and
collect some flags.  They only have a limited amount of instructions at
their disposal (depending on the level).  It is meant to be an
introduction to two things:

        - programming
        
        - boolean expressions

At the moment I have written the `maze engine' and `maze rendering'
classes and a level editor/level player making use of those
classes. It needs Python >=2.2 (new style classes), Tkinter, and the
Python Imaging Library.

Now (I hope it is not inappropriate to post this here) I'd really like
to get some feedback and criticism before I clean it up and try to
enhance it, as I happen to have lots of free time these days.  I'm
having trouble finding people around me who have python :(

Description of the project (24kbytes):
http://marooned.myby.co.uk/marooned/showpage.php?page=readme&style=test

The project (64 kbytes):
http://marooned.myby.co.uk/pytobor/pytobor.tgz

Then

$tar zxvf pytobor.gz (or any other way)
$cd pytobor0.5.1
$python editlevel.py

There are a few (simple) sample levels called level0.rob to level7.rob.
Thanks for any feedback (in private!).

-- 
Arnaud Delobelle
d e l o b e l l e AT b l u e y o n d e r . c o . u k



From rastm2 at aol.commorespam  Sun Jul 20 19:30:24 2003
From: rastm2 at aol.commorespam (Raymond Arthur St. Marie II of III )
Date: 20 Jul 2003 23:30:24 GMT
Subject: List of declared variables in interactive Python session?
References: <3F1AEAFB.3C62F613@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <20030720193024.13089.00000249@mb-m10.aol.com>

>"Raymond Arthur St. Marie II of III" wrote:
>> 
>> >>> vars( )
>> 
>> {'d': 'pywin', '__builtins__': <module '__builtin__' (built-in)>,
>'__name__':
>> '__main__', 'pywin': <module 'pywin' from
>> 'C:\PYTHON22\lib\site-packages\Pythonwin\pywin\__init__.pyc'>, '__doc__':
>None}
>> 
>> >>> for v in vars(): print v
>> ...
>> 
>> Traceback (most recent call last):
>>   File "<interactive input>", line 1, in ?
>> RuntimeError: dictionary changed size during iteration
>
>for v in vars().copy(): print v
>
>works fine...
>
>-Peter
>

Very nice Peter, I didn't see that coming (sad for me). But it amounts to the
same thing, really. Newbies might like to know that you work with a variable
declared specially for this "for" iterater in hopes that you won't stomp all
over a variable you might otherwise clobber. 

Only, I love a good one-liner. :-) 

Ray --



From irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl  Fri Jul  4 14:36:41 2003
From: irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 20:36:41 +0200
Subject: How to get CGI request-URL
In-Reply-To: <HBF.20030704ty6d@bombur.uio.no>
References: <HBF.20030704ty6d@bombur.uio.no>
Message-ID: <3f05c935$0$49111$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

Hallvard B Furuseth wrote:
> How can I get the URL the user typed (except the part after '?') with
> the cgi module?

try the REQUEST_URI environment variable

--Irmen




From martin at v.loewis.de  Fri Jul 18 11:10:06 2003
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-15?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 18 Jul 2003 17:10:06 +0200
Subject: A challenge to the ASCII proponents.
References: <mailman.1058278343.23104.python-list@python.org> <bf167a$pvt$1@panix2.panix.com> <ufzl7rdno.fsf@online.no> <3F142A58.80426AA4@hotmail.com> <2259b0e2.0307161620.4a9353f1@posting.google.com> <Xns93BB246FDDBCFJanC@213.118.75.80> <3F168011.3AEB3EFC@hotmail.com> <3F172442.2040907@v.loewis.de> <3F177D72.FF10EAEA@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <m3k7aflvld.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Erik Max Francis <max at alcyone.com> writes:

> Yeah, but that only works if everyone's expecting the same encoding.  I
> just see garbage non-ASCII characters, for instance, with my lowly
> Netscape 4 newsreader.

No, that is not a prerequisite. Instead, the prerequisite is that the
news reader/MUA knows what MIME (Multipurpose Internet Mail
Extensions) is. In the MIME header, I clearly identified the encoding
of this message as UTF-8, so any news reader *should* be capable of
converting this to the local encoding (perhaps using replacement
characters where glyphs are missing).

> Looked like it was probably was here, I saw what looked very strongly
> like eight double-byte characters (and two bytes each).

But then, you were able to read the English parts of my message just
fine, right? The ASCII letters in this message did not take up two
bytes per letter, as they would have if the message was encoded in
UTF-16.

Regards,
Martin




From mike at nospam.com  Wed Jul 30 16:07:11 2003
From: mike at nospam.com (Mike Rovner)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 13:07:11 -0700
Subject: streams (was: Re: Itertools)
References: <KKtVa.8$Y5.1@llslave.llan.ll.mit.edu> <Pine.GSO.4.51.0307302112430.15928@techunix.technion.ac.il>
Message-ID: <bg98he$do0$1@main.gmane.org>

Beni Cherniavsky wrote:
> Any feedback welcome.  I'd like to make it as Pythonic as possible.

> An perhaps make it standard.  Particular open questions:

>   - The linked lists are called "streams" by me because they are lazy
>     and that's what such beasts are called in functional languages.

Stream is used differently in Tcl and Unix.
Minded separation Python from functional approach (deprecation of filter,
map;
doubtfulness of implementing tail recursion optimization) probably it is not
so
inspiring for regular python programmer.

Lazy "streams" are a good thing provided they can be easily used for
organizing data pathes and connections.

>     - `Cons` still requires lisp background but I don't know any name
>       that would be recognizable to non-lispers anyway.  And it's not
>       a bad name.


Construct, Glue, Merge?
Taken readability any whole word is better.

>     - I called the operation for creating new iterator from same place
>       "forking".  Alternative names: `split`, `copy`, `clone`, `dup`,
>       "lookahead", etc.  What's best?

copy is already using construct in python. Why not use it?

>   - Anything else anybody needs?

If I got the intend of Stream correctly, I wish use them as Tcl streams,
so I'd need combining and filtering and i/o.

Just 0.02

Mike







From kfettig at state.nd.us  Thu Jul 24 14:58:11 2003
From: kfettig at state.nd.us (Ken Fettig)
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 13:58:11 -0500
Subject: Tokenize
Message-ID: <8%VTa.133$313.72262@news.uswest.net>

Does Python have an equivelent to the Java StringTokenizer? If so, what is
it and how do you implement it?
Thanks
Ken Fettig
kenfettig at btinet.net
kfettig at state.nd.us






From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sat Jul 12 10:40:34 2003
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 12 Jul 2003 10:40:34 -0400
Subject: Python Mystery Theatre -- Episode 1:  Exceptions
References: <UiOPa.3259$Y92.1224@nwrdny01.gnilink.net> <3F0FC088.3C56EDEA@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <bep6l2$a1g$1@panix3.panix.com>

In article <3F0FC088.3C56EDEA at alcyone.com>,
Erik Max Francis  <max at alcyone.com> wrote:
>Raymond Hettinger wrote:
>> 
>> ACT III --------------------------------------------
>> >>> class Prohibited(Exception):
>> ...     def __init__(self):
>> ...         print 'This class of should never get initialized'
>> ...
>> >>> raise Prohibited()
>> This class of should never get initialized
>> 
>> Traceback (most recent call last):
>>   File "<pyshell#40>", line 1, in -toplevel-
>>     raise Prohibited()
>> Prohibited: <unprintable instance object>
>> >>> raise Prohibited
>> This class of should never get initialized
>> 
>> Traceback (most recent call last):
>>   File "<pyshell#41>", line 1, in -toplevel-
>>     raise Prohibited
>> Prohibited: <unprintable instance object>
>
>Is this some IDLE-specific thing?  

Nope, the point here is that

raise Prohibited

will always create a Prohibited() instance.  (See also Peter's post
about One True Way for exceptions.)
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"Not everything in life has a clue in front of it...."  --JMS



From ta-meyer at ihug.co.nz  Sun Jul 20 20:18:56 2003
From: ta-meyer at ihug.co.nz (Tony Meyer)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 12:18:56 +1200
Subject: Possible use of Python for a voting machine demo project -- your feedback requested
In-Reply-To: <1ED4ECF91CDED24C8D012BCF2B034F13026F89E8@its-xchg4.massey.ac.nz>
Message-ID: <1ED4ECF91CDED24C8D012BCF2B034F130212AB6B@its-xchg4.massey.ac.nz>

> > > 3) When "WRITE-IN CANDIDATE" is selected, a large widow 
> > > (maybe the full screen) will pop up with a QWERTY keyboard
> > >  in the upper half.  This keyboard
> > > will have only three rows with the alpha keys (no punctuation or 
> > > numbers needed except for perhaps the hyphen... no shift, all CAPS).
> >
> > No apostrophe?  What if I want to vote for "O'Reilly"
> >
> As a matter of fact, we won't let you vote for O'Reilly.  On 
> second thought, you're right, I guess.  Okay we'll have an 
> apostrophe available.  Anything else?

What about non-English names?  Names with umlauts, accents, Asian
characters, and so on?

=Tony Meyer





From tim.harford at rogers.com  Sun Jul  6 14:44:42 2003
From: tim.harford at rogers.com (Tim)
Date: Sun, 06 Jul 2003 18:44:42 GMT
Subject: help! - cmd line interpreter gone "dumb"
Message-ID: <u6_Na.81768$2ay.70089@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>

Maybe I've been working too long, but has anyon had their python interpreter
stop taking commands.

The IDLE version works fine, but under Windoze:

1) execute "python" in teh command shell
2) ...interpreter comes up fine
3) type in anything and you get "SyntaxError: invalid syntax"

Literally, you could type in "import sys" or anything common and you get the
same results.

Any help greatly appreciated--thanks.

Tim






From jschilens at seawest.com  Fri Jul 18 08:34:38 2003
From: jschilens at seawest.com (Schilens, Jeremiah)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 08:34:38 -0400
Subject: activex unhandled data type error
Message-ID: <AF7BB988237AAD40865FA6333BB7EDCA05A0B4@ohmail01.seawest.corp>

Hello,

I'm using Python as an asp language and I've run into an error.  I'm trying to import MySQLdb and I get this error on the web page:

Error Type:
Python ActiveX Scripting Engine, ASP 0106 (0x80020009)
An unhandled data type was encountered.
/computers/test.asp, line 5

Line 5 is just the import statement.  Does anyone know how to fix this or know of another way that works to query a mysql database?

Thanks,

Jeremiah




From woodsplitter at rocketmail.com  Fri Jul 18 09:00:16 2003
From: woodsplitter at rocketmail.com (David Rushby)
Date: 18 Jul 2003 06:00:16 -0700
Subject: Create another Excel instance
References: <9ee55987.0307101339.701965a7@posting.google.com> <FZmPa.28943$EQ5.7055@twister.nyroc.rr.com> <9ee55987.0307111159.6978676e@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <7876a8ea.0307180500.11e370d4@posting.google.com>

yvan_charpentier at hotmail.com (yvan) wrote in message news:<9ee55987.0307111159.6978676e at posting.google.com>...

> Basically, my problem is that the object uses the same process 
> if an instance of Excel already exists.
> How can i create the new instance in a different process?

I just encountered the same problem.  How about this as a solution?
---------------------------------------------------------------
# For an explanation of makepy and gencache, see:
# http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/pythonwin32/chapter/ch12.html
# (Chapter 12 of _Python Programming on Win32_)
from win32com.client import gencache
gencache.EnsureModule('{00020813-0000-0000-C000-000000000046}', 0, 1, 2)
xlApplicationClass = gencache.GetClassForProgID('Excel.Application')

# Create a new instance of the Excel.Application class--don't reuse an
# existing instance.
xlApp = xlApplicationClass()

xlApp.Visible = False
xlApp.DisplayAlerts = False

try:
    wbk = xlApp.Workbooks.Add()
    sht = wbk.Sheets(1)

    sht.Cells(1,1).Value = 'blah'
    raise Exception('Deliberately raise an exc to test tidiness of cleanup.')
finally:
    try:
        wbk.Close()
        del wbk
    except:
        pass

    xlApp.Quit()
    del xlApp
---------------------------------------------------------------



From donn at drizzle.com  Thu Jul  3 01:39:47 2003
From: donn at drizzle.com (Donn Cave)
Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 05:39:47 -0000
Subject: Haskell distutils-type system
References: <mailman.1057089068.1044.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1057210786.171236@yasure>

Quoth Isaac Jones <ijones at syntaxpolice.org>:
...
| One idea for this distribution system, which we're calling the Library
| Infrastructure Project, is to create a nice gmake-based build system,
| document it, and leave it at that.

If it can be plain make, instead of gmake, that would be closer
my idea of "nice".  That has been one of Python's strengths since
early on, easy to build on a variety of platforms and doesn't
impose gratuitous requirements like needing GNU make or Perl
(can you imagine?)

| ... Another idea is to use a
| Haskell-based Distutils type system.
...

| What about configuration, do you typically interface with autoconf
| somehow, or does distutils have its own way to figure out
| configuration details?

This is not one of distutils' strengths.  I think the answer to both
is "no" - there isn't any useful interface to autoconf, and it doesn't
have a comparable ability to figure out configuration details.  The
path of least resistance would probably be something analogous to
config.h.in, a config.hs.in that allows autoconfig to account for all
the options and environmental variables.

	Donn Cave, donn at drizzle.com



From ee01b092 at ee.iitm.ernet.in  Thu Jul 17 02:59:36 2003
From: ee01b092 at ee.iitm.ernet.in (Vinoo Vasudevan)
Date: 16 Jul 2003 23:59:36 -0700
Subject: Securing the Pyton Interpreter?
References: <slrnbh7q3f.kiv.usenet@norge.freeshell.org> <JTCF/ks/K3WS089yn@the-wire.com> <mailman.1058345545.31859.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <45f7ff62.0307162259.64acb832@posting.google.com>

Steven Taschuk <staschuk at telusplanet.net> wrote in message news:<mailman.1058345545.31859.python-list at python.org>...
> Quoth Mel Wilson:
> > seem to recall there are complications with suid on scripts
> > .. though I don't recall what they are.
> 
> A simple example:  Let the file insecure_script contain
>     #!/bin/sh
>     grep 'f.*bar' $*
> This script must not be made setuid-root.  Consider:
>     $ cat >grep
>     #!/bin/sh
>     cp /etc/shadow . && chmod 0666 ./shadow
>     ^D
>     $ chmod +x ./grep
>     $ export PATH=.:$PATH
>     $ insecure_script
> 
> You could deal with this particular problem by using absolute path
> names for everything in the script, and/or by setting $PATH in the
> script itself.  [clip]

I didn't see this post before I posted the one with the naive shell
script. As clear as I can make it, the problem seems to be two-fold :-
Not allowing normal users to access the python interpreter directly,
and making sure they run only a certain set of scripts.
One solution that may work is to set up the interpreter so that _only_
you have read and execute permissions(maybe installing it in your home
directory), and then putting a shell script which has your UID but has
read and execute permissions for all users in a commonly accessible
place. The path to the interpreter and the python scripts must be
absolute in this script to avoid  security problems as mentioned
above.

Hope this works,
 Vinoo



From martin at v.loewis.de  Thu Jul 31 02:09:05 2003
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-15?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 31 Jul 2003 08:09:05 +0200
Subject: Ver 2.3 install over 2.2?
References: <mailman.1059585955.23944.python-list@python.org> <bg921r$9pt$05$2@news.t-online.com> <4c877253.0307301628.7d73a1a6@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <m37k5zns72.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

garth at deadlybloodyserious.com (Garth T Kidd) writes:

> Make sure you have VC6 installed, else you'll be unable to build extensions 
> for Python23. VC7 worked for building Python22 extensions, but no longer 
> (and if anyone can explain why, I'd love to know). 

VC7 did not work for building Python22 extensions. You end up linking
different versions of the CRT, and as soon as you pass FILE* from the
extension to Python, you get crashes.

Regards,
Martin




From intentionally at blank.co.uk  Sun Jul 13 17:41:20 2003
From: intentionally at blank.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 22:41:20 +0100
Subject: anything like C++ references?
References: <13t0hvsb7idh0g6ac3upe5k0qd6flc17ah@4ax.com> <pan.2003.07.13.10.58.11.376531@127.0.0.1> <lq-cnWRG9rRuMIyiXTWJjQ@comcast.com> <b8c3hvsesjoumiboobml3nsnajtha99mp1@4ax.com> <c0OdnUqJruWEUYyiU-KYuQ@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <maj3hv467n6k0smukllcdjgfcb1b1enmmn@4ax.com>

On Sun, 13 Jul 2003 17:16:08 -0400, "Terry Reedy" <tjreedy at udel.edu>
wrote:

>> You could use the same argument to rationalise a language which used
>> the + operator to express subtraction.
>
>Bogus comparison with name binding.  I am not aware that Python does
>anything quite so backwards.

Using an exaggeration as an analogy. Possibly. Though terms like
'assignment', 'variable' and 'value' seems pretty fundamental to me,
so the exaggeration is not that huge.

>> The fact is that 'assignment' has a common meaning separate from the
>> choice of programming language, and that the way Python handles name
>> binding means that meaning is not respected by Python for mutable
>> objects.
>
>From what others have posted, Python is not the only language in which
>'name=object' means "assign 'name' to that object".  This is much
>closer to the common idea of object having names than the idea that
>names can only name value holders (blocks of linear memory) and not
>values or objects themselves.

Many languages have *explicit* ways to create what computer science
calls pointers. Sometimes they have implicit dereferencing. Sometimes
they come prepackaged in a 'pointer to' or 'reference to' style
object. But the fact that you are dealing with something that
semantically behaves as a pointer is always explicit in some way or
another.

Or rather, it should be. The fact that a few other languages are
broken in much the same way does not mean that Python is doing the
right thing. The right thing does not mean imitating Java or whatever
any more than it means imitating C++.

If you want a good example to imitate, though, look to Haskell. I
don't know how it binds variables to values, but I do know that in
general it can't a simple mapping from identifier to memory location.
Even so, I don't care. Why should I? The implementation of the binding
is irrelevant - I only care that the value bound to the variable is
the one that I specified and that it doesn't get changed behind my
back.




From pyth at devel.trillke.net  Fri Jul 25 14:33:22 2003
From: pyth at devel.trillke.net (holger krekel)
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 20:33:22 +0200
Subject: path module
In-Reply-To: <1059155133.24478.10738.camel@lothlorien>; from ianb@colorstudy.com on Fri, Jul 25, 2003 at 12:45:33PM -0500
References: <1057651068.5348.386.camel@lothlorien> <20030708113219.H6906@prim.han.de> <mailman.1057686613.6463.python-list@python.org> <11234c14.0307211016.344d40bc@posting.google.com> <mailman.1059144006.6426.python-list@python.org> <just-8DDA38.17221725072003@news1.news.xs4all.nl> <20030725184158.O6906@prim.han.de> <1059155133.24478.10738.camel@lothlorien>
Message-ID: <20030725203322.P6906@prim.han.de>

Ian Bicking wrote:
> Jason had walkers both for all files, just non-directory files, and
> directory files.  This seems useful to me, and by making it explicit I
> might just start distinguishing text from binary (which I don't now
> because I am forgetful).  And a globbing walker, though I don't know how
> much of an advantage that would be over list comprehension.  Actually,
> all his walkers have a globbing option.

We currently only have one 'visit' method that accepts a filter for returning
results and a filter for recursing into the tree. You can use and
combine multiple filters like so:

    root = Path('...)
    for path in root.visit(AND(isdir, nolink)):
        # iterates over all non-link dirs in the tree (breadth-first)

or

    for path in root.visit(AND(isfile, endswith('.txt')), nodotfile):
        # iterates over all '*.txt' files but not recursing into ".*"

and so on.  This proved to be flexible and convenient and mostly avoids
the need for multiple walk-methods.  

cheers,

    holger




From bokr at oz.net  Fri Jul 18 00:53:43 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 18 Jul 2003 04:53:43 GMT
Subject: Regular expression help
References: <LApRa.5420$Qe5.2628@nwrddc03.gnilink.net> <mailman.1058418746.16790.python-list@python.org> <EKKRa.5589$0F4.2536@nwrdny02.gnilink.net>
Message-ID: <bf7ugn$48l$0@216.39.172.122>

On Fri, 18 Jul 2003 04:31:32 GMT, David Lees <abcdebl2nonspammy at verizon.net> wrote:

>Andrew Bennetts wrote:
>> On Thu, Jul 17, 2003 at 04:27:23AM +0000, David Lees wrote:
>> 
>>>I forget how to find multiple instances of stuff between tags using 
>>>regular expressions.  Specifically I want to find all the text between a 
>> 
>>                                                ^^^^^^^^
>> 
>> How about re.findall?
>> 
>> E.g.:
>> 
>>     >>> re.findall('BEGIN(.*?)END', 'BEGIN foo END   BEGIN bar END') 
>>     [' foo ', ' bar ']
>> 
>> -Andrew.
>> 
>> 
>
>Actually this fails with the multi-line type of file I was asking about.
>
> >>> re.findall('BEGIN(.*?)END', 'BEGIN foo\nmumble END   BEGIN bar END')
>[' bar ']
>
It works if you include the DOTALL flag (?s) at the beginning, which makes
. also match \n: (BTW, (?si) would make it case-insensitive).

 >>> import re
 >>> re.findall('(?s)BEGIN(.*?)END', 'BEGIN foo\nmumble END   BEGIN bar END')
 [' foo\nmumble ', ' bar ']

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From pronovic at skyjammer.com  Tue Jul 22 17:57:36 2003
From: pronovic at skyjammer.com (Kenneth Pronovici)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 21:57:36 GMT
Subject: ANNOUNCE: WordUtils 0.7.0 released
Message-ID: <20030722215959.GI6753@skyjammer.com>

Version 0.7.0 of the WordUtils package is now available from:

   http://cedar-solutions.com/software/wordutils/

The WordUtils package provides pure-Python objects related to word
searching and matching. The eventual goal is to develop a suite of
objects that are suitable for building word games in the tradition of
Scrabble (tm).

All of the objects provide similar functionality with a similar
interface, but are implemented in terms of different underlying data
structures. Currently, objects implementing two different data
structures are complete: the Dawg object, which implements a directed
acyclic word graph, and the TernarySearchTree object, which implements a
ternary search tree.

The URL listed above contains further information about the package, as
well as a link to Epydoc source code documentation for the package.

The package requires Python 2.2 or better.  It is distributed in Python
distutils format and as a Debian .deb.  It should be portable to all
Python platforms, but has only been thoroughly tested under Debian
GNU/Linux.  A unit test suite is included.

This is the first public release of the WordUtils package.




From bokr at oz.net  Sat Jul  5 17:11:04 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 5 Jul 2003 21:11:04 GMT
Subject: Bewildered graphs
References: <3F06BF7C.8DC6A978@noaa.gov>
Message-ID: <be7et8$dnc$0@216.39.172.122>

On Sat, 05 Jul 2003 08:07:24 -0400, Mark Fenbers <Mark.Fenbers at noaa.gov> wrote:

>This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
>--------------3C30E07F2D1A81BA8EE2E6DB
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
>I am investigating Python for the sake of ultimately generating hydrographs
>(such as this: http://ahps.erh.noaa.gov/iln/ahps/RiverDat/gifs/prgo1.png)
>on-the-fly from a web server cluster.  I have not used Python previously and do
>not yet know if Python is very useful for this or if I am wasting my time.
>
>Quite frankly, I am a little bewildered.  Not only is there Python, but there
>are many extention modules which cloud up my view as to what I will need.
>There's Scientific Python, which sounds promising, but there's also SciPy which
>in itself has gnuplot, xplt and plt modules.  I know enough about gnuplot to
>know that it won't meet my needs because I need to be able to shade regions
>above certain values such as done in yellow on the example hydrograph (the link
>above).  It also doesn't have many font options or the ability to place an image
>such as the NOAA logo.
>
>Can someone kindly guide me as to what I would most likely need to replicate the
>graph shown via the link above?
>
Have you asked them what they use to generate it? If it's free software, chances are
someone has done a Python interface (noaa.gov is paid for with taxes AFAIK, so it ought
to be free at least for US citizens, IWT ;-)

If not, it would at least make searching for a clone/workalike easier.

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From bokr at oz.net  Tue Jul 15 01:10:56 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 15 Jul 2003 05:10:56 GMT
Subject: anything like C++ references?
References: <000301c348c7$3c501980$21795418@dell1700> <iqm2hvs77lhe1m71v9b579070khbf0uv0a@4ax.com> <berqqd$ad5$1@panix3.panix.com> <brs2hv8edfv0d1fch9mha8otuulajnkh0g@4ax.com> <bes0ps$l6$1@panix3.panix.com> <qi13hv4s21i8mtr2e600jumm54hqs7tppu@4ax.com> <mailman.1058125699.26133.python-list@python.org> <sag3hv4vf884ed7ouu5cv8ofnopp9j1t12@4ax.com> <f0f51c80.0307132003.264b6894@posting.google.com> <7dc4hvslh7a8fk9p6cvsfqa1c8d44rmmnv@4ax.com> <f0f51c80.0307140649.61cc1fe2@posting.google.com> <41e6hvcl2q5bdjqlp30t1gfq42j2tgo4u4@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <bf02d0$ul8$0@216.39.172.122>

On Tue, 15 Jul 2003 00:22:15 +0100, Stephen Horne <intentionally at blank.co.uk> wrote:
[...]
>>> C++ references are tellingly also called self-dereferencing pointers.
>>> They are not a distinct concept - they are syntactic sugar. I suspect
>>> they mainly arise out of the modern desire to disguise pointers and
>>> fantasize that they're not there, though they certainly work very well
>>> in certain contexts.
>>
>>Syntactic sugar or no, they still behave differently than other
>>datatypes and are therefore not consistent... IMHO.
>
>They behave exactly like pointers. You just use different notation to
>get that behaviour. That is what makes them syntactic sugar.
>
BZZT. C++ references do not behave *exactly* like pointers. Try to make one
point to a different place than it was initialized to point to.

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From andreas.kuntzagk at mdc-berlin.de  Wed Jul  2 06:54:48 2003
From: andreas.kuntzagk at mdc-berlin.de (Andreas Kuntzagk)
Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 12:54:48 +0200
Subject: os.fork() different in cgi-script?
Message-ID: <bdudn2$11c3gt$1@fu-berlin.de>

Hi,

following code:

#!/usr/bin/python

import os
import sys

def main():
    print "Content-Type: text/plain\n\n"
    print os.getpid()

    childPID = os.fork()
    if childPID == 0:
        sys.exit()
    else:
        os.wait()
    
if __name__ == "__main__":
    main()

when run on a shell, gives the result:
---------------------------
Content-Type: text/plain


20953
----------------------------

but run as a cgi-script it gives:
---------------------------
21039
Content-Type: text/plain


21039
---------------------------
So it looks the main() is run 2 times. 
Is it so? And if yes, why?

I googled for this but only found a similar question from 1997 and no
answer.

Ciao, Andreas




From mwilson at the-wire.com  Sun Jul 20 15:28:16 2003
From: mwilson at the-wire.com (Mel Wilson)
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 15:28:16 -0400
Subject: [OT] sentances with two meanings
References: <mailman.1058278343.23104.python-list@python.org>
 <bf167a$pvt$1@panix2.panix.com> <ufzl7rdno.fsf@online.no>
 <3F142A58.80426AA4@hotmail.com>
 <2259b0e2.0307161620.4a9353f1@posting.google.com>
 <Xns93BB246FDDBCFJanC@213.118.75.80>
 <2259b0e2.0307170416.e2bc998@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <Q1uG/ks/K7od089yn@the-wire.com>

In article <2259b0e2.0307170416.e2bc998 at posting.google.com>,
mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato) wrote:
>JanC <usenet_spam at janc.invalid> wrote in message news:<Xns93BB246FDDBCFJanC at 213.118.75.80>...
>> mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato) schreef:
>> > Now, Latin had to verbs for "to know": "scire" and "cognoscere".
>>
>> And "cognovisse".  (I still have a latin dictionary too... :)
>
>Huh? "cognovisse" cannot be a verb, what would be the paradigma?

   Me too, but it's in Bantam's _The New College Latin &
English Dictionary_.  'Cognovisse' seems to be some
modification of cognoscere.  No guidance as to use.  Could
it be some non-verbal form like 'To know it is to
misunderstand it'?

        Regards.        Mel.



From psimmo60 at hotmail.com  Wed Jul  2 09:32:09 2003
From: psimmo60 at hotmail.com (Paul Simmonds)
Date: 2 Jul 2003 06:32:09 -0700
Subject: My Big Dict.
References: <mailman.1057119003.11991.python-list@python.org> <20030702073735.40293ba2.christophe.delord@free.fr> <TXvMa.9902$BM.3065756@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com> <bdua4i$18el$1@biggoron.nerim.net>
Message-ID: <94974e1a.0307020532.1cb19956@posting.google.com>

"Aur?lien G?ron" <ageron at HOHOHOHOvideotron.ca> wrote in message news:<bdua4i$18el$1 at biggoron.nerim.net>...
> "drs" wrote...
> > "Christophe Delord" <christophe.delord at free.fr> wrote in message
> > news:20030702073735.40293ba2.christophe.delord at free.fr...
> > > Hello,
> > >
> > > On Wed, 2 Jul 2003 00:13:26 -0400, Xavier wrote:
<snip>
> > > > I need advice on how I can convert a text db into a dict.  Here is an
> > > > example of what I need done.
> > > >
> > > > some example data lines in the text db goes as follows:
> > > >
> > > > CODE1!DATA1 DATA2, DATA3
> > > > CODE2!DATA1, DATA2 DATA3
<snip>
> > > > Any idea on how I can convert 20,000+ lines of the above into the
> > > > following protocol for use in my code?:
> > > >
> > > > TXTDB = {'CODE1': 'DATA1 DATA2, DATA3', 'CODE2': 'DATA1, DATA2 DATA3'}
> > > >
> > >
> > > If your data is in a string you can use a regular expression to parse
> > > each line, then the findall method returns a list of tuples containing
> > > the key and the value of each item. Finally the dict class can turn this
> > > list into a dict. For example:
<example snipped>
> >
> > and you can kill a fly with a sledgehammer.  why not
> >
> > f = open('somefile.txt')
> > d = {}
> > l = f.readlines()
> > for i in l:
> >     a,b = i.split('!')
> >     d[a] = b.strip()
<snip>
> Your code looks good Christophe.  Just two little things to be aware of:

I think I'm right in saying Christophe's approach was using the 're'
module, which has been snipped, whereas the approach was the above
using split was by "drs".

> 1) if you use split like this, then each line must contain one and only one
> '!', which means (in particular) that empy lines will bomb, and also data
> must not contain any '!' or else you'll get an exception such as
> "ValueError: unpack list of wrong size".   If your data may contain '!',
> then consider slicing up each line in a different way.

If this is a problem, use a combination of count and index methods to
find the first, and use slices. For example, if you don't mind
two-lined list comps:

d=dict([(l[:l.index('!')],l[l.index('!')+1:-1])\
       for l in file('test.txt') if l.count('!')])

> 2) if your file is really huge, then you may want to fill up your dictionary
> as you're reading the file, instead of reading everything in a list and then
> building your dictionary (hence using up twice the memory).
Agreed.

The above list comprehension has the disadvantages that it finds how
many '!' characters for every line, and it reads the whole file in at
once. Assuming there are going to be more data lines than not, this is
much faster:

d={}
for l in file("test.txt"):
    try: i=l.index('!')
    except ValueError: continue
    d[l[:i]]=l[i+1:]

It's often much faster to ask forgiveness than permission. I measure
it about twice as fast as the 're' method, and about four times as
fast as the list comp above.
HTH,
Paul

> 
> But apart from these details, I agree with Christophe that this is the way
> to go.
> 
> Aur?lien



From ben at dadsetan.com  Tue Jul 15 14:40:50 2003
From: ben at dadsetan.com (Behrang Dadsetan)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 19:40:50 +0100
Subject: Waiting for processes to finish under Solaris
Message-ID: <3F144AB2.10703@dadsetan.com>

Hi all,

please note that once I finished writing the script someone explained me 
that there is a command pwait under Solaris... anyway it was fun to 
write and it did not take long (while I am not a python guru..). And my 
version is MUUUCH better :)


Is there no standard interfaces to the process table? I only found 
examples of how to do it on the win32 platform. So I parse with re the 
output of /usr/ucb/ps...

Because I am still at the begining of learning python, I wanted to have 
some advice here how I could have done the following code better...

Thanks in advance, Ben.
------waitPID.py---------------------------------------------
#!/usr/local/bin/python

import os
import time
import re
import getopt
import sys

def usage():
     print >>sys.stderr, sys.argv[0] + " Usage"
     print >>sys.stderr, """waits until the specified processes have 
finished
-r <regexp> | --regexp=<regexp>     will watch the processes matching with
                                     <regexp> at their beginning
-p <pid>    | --pid=<pid>           will watch the processes with the pid
<pid>
-h          | --help                will display this screen
"""

try:
     opts, args = getopt.getopt(sys.argv[1:], "hr:p:", ["help", "regexp=",
"pid="])
except getopt.GetoptError:
     usage()
     sys.exit(2)
regexps = []
pids = []
for o, a in opts:
     if o in ("-r", "--regexp"):
	regexps.append(re.compile('^' + a))
     if o in ("-p", "--pid"):
	pids.append(a)
     if o in ("-h", "--help"):
	usage()
	sys.exit()

def ps():
     stdout = os.popen("/usr/ucb/ps -auxwwww")
     allprocesses = stdout.readlines()
     stdout.close()
     return allprocesses


_psline =
re.compile(r"^(\S{1,10})\s*(\d+)\s+(\d+\.\d+)\s+(\d+\.\d{1,2})\s*(\d{1,6})\s
*(\d{1,8})\s+(\?|\S+)\s+([A-Z])\s+(\d+:\d+:\d+|\S\S\S
\d+)\s+(\d+:\d+)\s+(.*)$")
def splitpsline(line):
     match = _psline.search(line)
     if match:
	owner, pid, cpu, mem, sz, rss, tt, s, start, time, command =
match.groups()
	return owner, pid, cpu, mem, sz, rss, tt, s, start, time, command

watchedforpids = {}

processesmatrix = [ p for p in map(splitpsline, ps()) if p ]

for owner, pid, cpu, mem, sz, rss, tt, s, start, cputime, command in
processesmatrix:
     basenamecmd = os.path.split(command)[1]
     for watchedpid in pids:
	if watchedpid == pid:
	    watchedforpids[pid] = command

     for watchedforcmd in regexps:
	if watchedforcmd.search(command) or
watchedforcmd.search(basenamecmd):
	    watchedforpids[pid] = command


while 1:
     time.sleep(2)
     foundpids = {}
     processesmatrix = [ p for p in map(splitpsline, ps()) if p ]
     for owner, pid, cpu, mem, sz, rss, tt, s, start, cputime, command in
processesmatrix:
	for watchedpid in watchedforpids.keys():
	    if watchedpid == pid:
		foundpids[pid] = command
     if not foundpids:
	break
     print
     for pid, command in foundpids.items():
	print "PID[%s]:COMMAND[%s] still alive" % (pid, command)
     time.sleep(58)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------




From ianb at colorstudy.com  Tue Jul 22 23:19:16 2003
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: 22 Jul 2003 22:19:16 -0500
Subject: How does Mr. Martelli's Borg recipe work ?
In-Reply-To: <764b8294.0307221520.18017b09@posting.google.com>
References: <764b8294.0307221520.18017b09@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1058930355.28096.6402.camel@lothlorien>

On Tue, 2003-07-22 at 20:37, Mars wrote:
> I have looked long and hard at Mr. Martelli's Borg recipe:
> 
> http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/66531
> 
> It is a very useful substitute for a Singleton, but I can't figure out
> how it works. 

While I don't want to discourage you from learning more about the
internals of Python objects (certainly a worthwhile goal), "singletons"
are usually thought about too hard by people new to Python.  This is a
good way to make a singleton:

class _Something:
   ...

TheSomething = _Something()


Then just never refer to _Something again.  Import TheSomething (calling
it whatever you want), and use it, not its class.  It's a singleton
because there's only one of them.  Simplicity!

  Ian






From belred1 at yahoo.com  Wed Jul 23 23:17:30 2003
From: belred1 at yahoo.com (Bryan)
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 03:17:30 GMT
Subject: file.close()
Message-ID: <edITa.131868$Ph3.17333@sccrnsc04>

i'm curious to know how others handle the closing of files.  i seem to
always end up with this pattern even though i rarely see others do it.

f1 = file('file1')
try:
   # process f1
finally:
   f1.close()

which explicitly closes f1

or for multiple files:

f1 = file('file1')
try:
    f2 = file('file2')
    try:
         # process f1 & f2
    finally:
       f2.close()
finally:
   f1.close()

which explicitly closes f1 & f2
any exceptions opening f1 or f2 is handled outside of this structure or is
allowed to fall out of the program.  i'm aware that files will automatically
be closed when the process exits.  i'm just curious how others do this for
small scripts and larger programs.  is what i'm doing is overkill?

thanks,

bryan





From martin at v.loewis.de  Sun Jul 20 17:16:39 2003
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-15?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 20 Jul 2003 23:16:39 +0200
Subject: xml processing and sys.setdefaultencoding
References: <bfe4it$8ra$02$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <m3u19gnbk8.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

"christof hoeke" <csad7 at yahoo.com> writes:

> using non-ascii characters was a problem. so i set the defaultending to
> UTF-8 and now everything works (at least it seems so, need to do more
> testing though).

Can you please be more precise as to what problem exactly you have
observed?

Regards,
Martin




From ajs at optonline.net  Sat Jul  5 10:40:43 2003
From: ajs at optonline.net (Arthur)
Date: Sat, 05 Jul 2003 09:40:43 -0500
Subject: Least used builtins?
Message-ID: <001901c34303$6a61e7f0$1a02a8c0@BasementDell>

Lulu writes -

>Yet a fourth matter is that I think it would be slightly easier to teach
>Python to beginners if __builtins__ did not include a number of
>functions that were extremely difficult to explain to novices... and
>that are really only of use to fairly expert Pythoneers.  I find that
>callable, classmethod, id, intern, and a number of others fall in this
>category.  My thinking is that anything meant for experts should need to
>get imported by specific request.

Python and beginners.  As usual where I feel qualified to pop-up with a
position.

My experience was such that, in retrospect, the only place I feel Python
"betrayed" me as someone learning to program with Python and outside of a
formal curricula, was in the *absence* of a built-in - "copy".  To me,  that
absence left a conceptual hole in the core (not filled, I contend, by the
availability of list[:]).

I don't think it is necessary to elaborate in too much detail as to the why
the issue is an issue.  The full implications of moving something like copy
to become a built_in is not something I pretend to have a handle on.  As to
the limited question, effect on learning (especially self-directed
learning) - I believe I have a point.

Guido's position seems to be that the presence of copy as a built-in would
lead to its overuse by the newbie.  My counter-position is that it necessary
to understand why one is not using it, and that can only happen if one
understand it exists.

The thinking along the lines of a more limited set of built_ins might
actually serve some resolution of the issue -  at least to the extent it is
an issue, beyond my own perception of the matter.  That is, one will
understand sooner that there is functionality conceptually "fundamental",
that might not exist in __builtins__.

I also happen to agree with the direct point being made.

As I happen to be working on a short tutorial for an app, which assumes no
prior knowledge of Python.

And one the the first things I do - maybe 10 lines into the tutorial - is a
dir(__builtins__) from the interactive prompt. Just to give some lay of the
land.

Three or four years into Python, and I do notice there are a number of items
I can't explain to myself, much less to sombody else.  And have gotten a
fairly long way along writing acutal working apps, with the "more
fundamental" subset of __builtins_ which are in common use.

This whole area, I think, deserving of attention - especially as I do think
something siginificant might be accomplished without really disturbing
anything.  And perhaps the concept of whittling down the _builtins__, makes
more sense than the addition of a new built-in, as I had been advocating.
And would accomplish something along the lines that my experience indicates
to be advisable - i.e., with respect to "copy"

Art






From max at alcyone.com  Tue Jul 15 20:34:31 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 17:34:31 -0700
Subject: [OT] sentances with two meanings
References: <mailman.1058278343.23104.python-list@python.org> <bf167a$pvt$1@panix2.panix.com> <ufzl7rdno.fsf@online.no>
Message-ID: <3F149D97.C8192A2@alcyone.com>

Syver Enstad wrote:

> Does "to know" in english also mean to feel someone? In my own
> language
> the direct translation of the english know also means to feel. I could
> say (translated) "I know the cold", meaning I feel the cold
> weather.

I don't know that usage.  (Har, har.)

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ Nine worlds I remember.
\__/  Icelandic Edda of Snorri Sturluson



From rastm2 at aol.commorespam  Sat Jul 26 23:59:31 2003
From: rastm2 at aol.commorespam (Raymond Arthur St. Marie II of III )
Date: 27 Jul 2003 03:59:31 GMT
Subject: Del's "except"ional PEP Rejection
Message-ID: <20030726235931.05032.00000547@mb-m26.aol.com>

Del's "except"ional PEP Rejection

Ladieees and Gentilmen and Pyth-O-neers of all ages.
	Step right up. 
	Don't be shy.
	Come one come all.
	Be the first on your block 
	       TO GROK 
	*THE* one *THE* only
        Exception you won't find 
		any where but here!
	The Exception that's Exceptional!

	It's the "elif from lamdba except" Exception.
	(The only Exception that don't 
		need an "except" clause, 
			Because it *IS* one.)

It's the story of Del, an intermitantly deaf,
intermitantly nauseated importation executive 
with Print Global Inc. 

Del's a company man, 
and the 150 year old, family owned
company needs someone
to lead them all into the 21'st Century.

Having over heard...

( It's amazing how some people who seem 
deaf at times can hear things 
from what 
was supposed to be a
closed door meeting between ) 

...the VP of Statis 
talking down to 
the 85 year old Chief of Data Processing ...

( History Note--that's what they
used to call them you know -- 
worked his way up from crank turner 
-- but I digress )
...
what was I saying    oh yeah 

Del over heard the VP telling the old guy,

"Hell, my 12 year kid stuck *some* kinda snake, 
wait it was a python, 
yeah he stuck a python in
an old Apple II 
that was in the attic a week ago
Sunday and started typeing like 
mad and by Thursday he was 
telling me that he had gone 
GLOBAL and wouldn't
need his allowance anymore. 

No it's time to upgrade.
Shut down the ENIAC."

Cut to the "ever butt kissing" Del, half deaf, sitting
in Python school. 
Well, sorta sitting 'cuz' Del's got
bowel problems and he needs another pass from the 
Instructor to go to the lav.

Sitting on the pot, like a splash,
a thought hits him.
( gosh I hope it was just a thought )

Ya see, Dan didn't just volenteer for this mission,
he was holding back from the company.
He new a litte "c" code. Just enough to be dangerous,
and it made him sick to his stomach.

But this Python Language!
He truely understood and liked what he was learing.

Python was indented so you could read it like 
a self respecting human being.

It was impressive to him, the way you could write your 
code in the interpreter, and did't have to declare 
anything or agonize while you waited to see if it worked.

He liked the way "elif" statements made case switches 
easier to code and understand. 

How "from" this "import" that made code re-usable.

How "lamda" could define a function in a function 
without having to define a function for a function.

How exceptions could be used to make programs that
worked the first time.

He loved the "while loops" and the list comprehensions 
that had little "for loops" and "if"s in them.

He like how any one on the planet,
with enough money to
maintain a computer and an internet connection,
could just be so very proud that they had their 
PEP rejected
by the most intelligent, helpful,
thoughtful, and kindest people on Earth.

Sitting right there on the throne of inspiration 
he came up with the only 
exception that uses all the keywords, 
types all in one color in the editor, 
and makes sense to only him, 
so he sent in a PEP to be rejected...

wait for it 

wait for it 

Bam!
The elif from lambda except: statment 

elif from lambda except:
	while del is not def: 
		[import exec for print global]
	try: 
		and continue or 
	else: 
		return break pass in class 
	finally: 
		yeild if assert 

*PYTHON* 
	*THE*WAY
	*GUIDO*
		*INDENTED*
	*IT*TO*BE*

By Raymond St. Marie (Rastm2 at aol.com -- don't laugh,
it's been free since I lost my job in January)



From abbeflabbe at InospamIhotmail.com  Fri Jul 18 13:43:18 2003
From: abbeflabbe at InospamIhotmail.com (Linkages)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 17:43:18 GMT
Subject: gui
References: <pan.2003.07.18.00.19.12.167699@InospamIhotmail.com> <slrnbhf2en.3i2.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>
Message-ID: <pan.2003.07.18.12.42.54.568032@InospamIhotmail.com>

Il Fri, 18 Jul 2003 20:16:35 +0950, Ben Finney ha scritto:

> On Fri, 18 Jul 2003 05:19:35 GMT, Linkages wrote:
>> a good GUI for linux ?
> 
> XFree86 is a pretty good one.
> 
>     <http://xfree86.org/>
> 
> Did you have something more Python-specific in mind?

yes a had :))

bye bud
linka




From tchur at optushome.com.au  Wed Jul  9 16:12:23 2003
From: tchur at optushome.com.au (Tim Churches)
Date: 10 Jul 2003 06:12:23 +1000
Subject: python + cluster computing
In-Reply-To: <beh8o6$fg86$2@hades.rz.uni-saarland.de>
References: <beh8o6$fg86$2@hades.rz.uni-saarland.de>
Message-ID: <1057781543.1171.10.camel@emilio>

On Thu, 2003-07-10 at 00:27, Uwe Schmitt wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I found several Python bindings for the MPI protocol,
> can anybody report some opinions and experiences ?

Peter Christen and I have used Ole Nielsen's PyPar package (see
http://datamining.anu.edu.au/~ole/pypar/) in our Febrl probabilistic
record linkage engine (see
http://datamining.anu.edu.au/projects/linkage.html) with excellent
results. I have also been experimenting with its use in a parallel data
summarisation engine. It is easy to install and is very easy to use,
mainly because it only wraps a small portion of MPI - but just those
parts you really need (at least we haven't missed anything yet). Its
ability to pass any picklable Python object around the cluster is a real
bonus, and the speed at which it passes Numeric Python arrays using
"raw" mode is very impressive. Ole is also very helpful, and is actively
involved in parallel computing work on a daily basis (using PyPar, no
doubt).

-- 

Tim C

PGP/GnuPG Key 1024D/EAF993D0 available from keyservers everywhere
or at http://members.optushome.com.au/tchur/pubkey.asc
Key fingerprint = 8C22 BF76 33BA B3B5 1D5B  EB37 7891 46A9 EAF9 93D0


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From bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au  Thu Jul  3 00:57:04 2003
From: bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 04:57:04 GMT
Subject: Copying files in Python
References: <JnNMa.22804$C83.2152498@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <slrnbg7dt3.kso.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>

On Thu, 03 Jul 2003 03:26:33 GMT, Russell Lear wrote:
> A simple question from a python beginner: How do I do 'cp -p source
> destination' where source could be a list of files and destination
> could be a file or directory (I could break the operation up if it
> must be file to file)?  Perserving file creation time is important.
> Platform independence also nice.

The 'shutil' module is your friend:

    <http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/module-shutil.html>

-- 
 \         "Truth would quickly cease to become stranger than fiction, |
  `\                  once we got as used to it."  -- Henry L. Mencken |
_o__)                                                                  |
http://bignose.squidly.org/ 9CFE12B0 791A4267 887F520C B7AC2E51 BD41714B



From ianb at colorstudy.com  Wed Jul 23 20:49:43 2003
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: 23 Jul 2003 19:49:43 -0500
Subject: ndiff
In-Reply-To: <ZfFTa.130048$N7.18958@sccrnsc03>
References: <ZfFTa.130048$N7.18958@sccrnsc03>
Message-ID: <1059007783.28094.8013.camel@lothlorien>

On Wed, 2003-07-23 at 18:55, Bryan wrote:
> 3.  is there a simple method that just returns true or false whether two
> files are different or not?  i was hoping that ndiff/compare would return an
> empty list if there was no difference,  but that's not the case.  i ended up
> using a simple: if file1.read() == file2.read(): but there must be a smarter
> faster way.

Maybe something like:

def areDifferent(file1, file2):
    while 1:
        data1, data2 = file1.read(1000), file2.read(1000)
        if not data1 and not data2:
            return True
        if data1 != data2:
            return False


You still have to go through the entire file if you really want to be
sure.  If you use filenames, of course, you can take some shortcuts:

def filesDiffer(filename1, filename2):
    if os.stat(filename1).st_size != os.stat(filename2).st_size:
        return False
    else:
        return areDifferent(open(filename1), open(filename2)

You could also try a quick comparison from somewhere not at the
beginning (using .seek(pos)), if you think it is likely that files will
have common headers.  But you'd still have to scan the entire file to be
sure.

  Ian






From dexter at socha.net  Mon Jul 28 07:13:06 2003
From: dexter at socha.net (Matthias Wiehl)
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 13:13:06 +0200
Subject: List Question
References: <mailman.1059389635.20311.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <79lluioqf1.fsf@buug.mind.de>

"Bill Loren" <lorenb2 at bezeqint.net> writes:

> Assume I have a list named heck_of_a_list.
> 
> how would I extract the number of elements out of?it ?

len(heck_of_a_list)



From martin at v.loewis.de  Fri Jul 11 19:33:03 2003
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 01:33:03 +0200
Subject: Windows XP - Environment variable - Unicode
In-Reply-To: <3f0ed1ba@epflnews.epfl.ch>
References: <3f0ed1ba@epflnews.epfl.ch>
Message-ID: <benhfe$dhs$07$1@news.t-online.com>

sebastien.hugues wrote:
> So the question is how to get the default encoding of the system ?

On Windows, the system encoding is always called "mbcs". Actually,
there are two system encodings: the ANSI code page (CP_ACP), and
the OEM code page (CP_OEMCP). "mbcs" is CP_ACP. CP_ACP is used
everywhere except in terminal windows and when encoding FAT file
names on disk.

Regards,
Martin




From andrew-pythonlist at puzzling.org  Wed Jul  2 08:59:25 2003
From: andrew-pythonlist at puzzling.org (Andrew Bennetts)
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 22:59:25 +1000
Subject: Assign to True / False in 2.3
In-Reply-To: <3F02ADD3.6047F561@alcyone.com>
References: <bdu98t$1eh$1@lust.ihug.co.nz> <3F02ADD3.6047F561@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <20030702125925.GC17479@frobozz>

On Wed, Jul 02, 2003 at 03:02:59AM -0700, Erik Max Francis wrote:
> Culley Angus wrote:
> 
> > I was a little suprised to find that I could assign a value to 'True',
> > and 'False' without warning though, and was wondering if this is
> > deliberate.
> 
> This is true of pretty much all Python features.  The only special
> dispensation goes to None, which is a warning now (in the 2.3 beta):
> 
> Python 2.3b2 (#1, Jun 29 2003, 20:30:58) 
> [GCC egcs-2.91.66 19990314/Linux (egcs-1.1.2 release)] on linux2
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> >>> None = 0
> <stdin>:1: SyntaxWarning: assignment to None

Incidentally, the reason why a SyntaxWarning isn't raised for True and False
is that there is a lot of existing code for older pythons that do tricks
like:

    True = (1 == 1)
    False = not True

Or something similar, and the Python team didn't want to break code, or
cause spurious warnings for code that might otherwise work perfectly well
with 2.3 and 2.2 or even 1.5.2 (depending on what else it did, of course).

-Andrew.





From BartolomeSintes at ono.com  Sun Jul 20 05:48:33 2003
From: BartolomeSintes at ono.com (Bartolomé Sintes Marco)
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 09:48:33 GMT
Subject: non-ASCII characters IDLE 1.0 rc1 bugs
Message-ID: <RztSa.28234$FN3.2363410@news.ono.com>

Hi,
I have downloaded and installed Python 2.3 RC1 in a Windows
98 SE computer. IDLE 1.0 does not work very well:
a) When I open with IDLE 1.0 RC1 a program written
with IDLE 0.8, non-ASCII characters (like voyels with accents)
are changed to wrong characters.
b) If a program has non-ASCII characters, save or save as
work when a new file is created, but if I open a file with non-ASCII
characters and I modify it, then I can not save it (neither save it as).

Do you know if these problems will be adressed before 2.3 final
or I have to configure something to solve these problems?

Thanks,
Barto

P.S.: I am Spanish, so I use several non-ASCII characters...





From vze4rx4y at verizon.net  Wed Jul 23 15:02:41 2003
From: vze4rx4y at verizon.net (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 19:02:41 GMT
Subject: Python Mystery Theatre -- Episode 3:  Extend this
References: <tH5Ta.24164$7O.4744@nwrdny01.gnilink.net> <3f1ea08e_2@corp-news.newsgroups.com>
Message-ID: <lZATa.21757$0F4.12851@nwrdny02.gnilink.net>

[Chris Reedy] <
> I tried these out myself after making my guesses. Here's what I found:

[Raymond]
> > def real(z):
> >     return hasattr(z, 'real') and z.real or z
> > def imag(z):
> >     return hasattr(z, 'imag') and z.imag or 0
> > for z in 3+4j, 5, 0+6j, 7.0, 8+0j, 9L:
> >     print real(z), imag(z)
[Chris]
> I spotted the error in this one (I've been bitten by this more than
> once) if z.real or z.imag is false, I get z or 0. That results is two
> problems:
>
> For 0+6j, the answer is 6j and 6.0, definitely not what was expected.
> For 8+0j, the answer is 8.0 and 0, not 8.0 and 0.0. This is close to
> what was expected and, if a bug at all, would be a rather subtle one.
>
> I would certainly expect that Raymond's been bitten by this one. I would
> guess that every experienced Python programmers been bitten by some form
> of this one.

Yes, this snippet came directly from an early version of my matrix algebra
tool that has been in production for several years.  It is essentially the
class mistake with and/or.  The code has been replaced with a try:
except AttributeError:.    The point of the code was to allow complex operators
to be applied to a matrix of mixed types and only coerce to complex when
necessary.


> > ACT II ---------------------
> > uniq = {}
> > for k in (10, 'ten', 10+0j, u'ten', 'Ten', 't'+'en', 10.0):
> >     uniq(k) = 1
> > print len(uniq)
>
> I had to experiment with this one. I guessed 3, which turned out to be
> right. I was a little surprised that 'ten' and u'ten' hash the same.
> However, after thinking about that, I decided I was happy with that result.
>
> I was more surprised that 10 and 10.0 came out the same. One of these
> days I'll take the time to look up the hash algorithm for floats to see
> how this was achieved.

The lesson is that objects that compare equal are expected to hash equal.
Since 10 == 10+0j == 10.0, they will hash to the same value.
Since 'ten' == u'ten' == 't'+'en', they will hash to the same value.
Since 'Ten' does not compare equal to the others (case-sensitive), it is
distinct.



> > ACT III ---------------------
> > s = 'abracadabra'
> > for i in [3, 2, 1, 0]:
> >         print s[i:], s[-i:]
>
> Got this one the first time. -0 == 0, so s[-0:] == s[0:] == s. I'll bet
> that this is one that burned Raymond.

Yes.  This came-up in an early version of random.shuffle.  I was
looping backwards over an array and was choosing samples from
the range [0:-i].  The error did not surface in testing because an
alternate selection method is used in cases that include i==0.  The
aspiring bug was caught by Tim during a code review.

Things like this are particularly hard to spot when your comprehensive
test code runs flawlessly.


>
> > ACT IV ---------------------
> > pets = list('cat ')
> > pets += 'dog '
> > pets.extend('fish ')
> > print pets + 'python'
>
> I guessed ['c', 'a', 't', ' ', 'd', 'o', 'g', ' ', 'f', 'i', 's', 'h', '
> ', 'p', 'y', 't', 'h', 'o', 'n']. I tried it to discover that the print
> statement at the end throws. I decided that not concatenating strings to
>   lists doesn't bother me since I would believe that this is an error
> more often than not and pets + list('python') would hopefully make the
> intent clear.

That is in-fact the reason for it throwing an exception.

> On the other hand, if I saw pets = list('cat') in code I
> was reviewing I suspect that I would want to assure myself that ['c',
> 'a', 't'] was what was intended and not ['cat'].

That is a proper reaction to a code smell.

> I also much bothered by pets += 'dog ' working but pets + 'python' not.
> What's the justification for the checking in one place and not the other?

Because, as you pointed out, the second form is often an error
but the first is usually intended.  Also, I think the += behavior
got set in stone before the difference between the two was noticed.


> > INTERMISSION (with output included, oh yeah! ------------
> >
> >>>>import operator
> >>>>1 - reduce(operator.add, [1e-7]* 10**7)
> >
> > 2.4983004554002264e-010
>
> Round off error. Welcome to the world of floating point arithmetic!

Representation error amplified by the instantaneous relays of the
computer (phrase from StarTrek).

The important point is that errors in the last bit can
accumulate rather than cancel.

> I predicted that the
> result of both print statements would be:
>
> 5 ['shirt', 'bananas', 'nuts', 'socks', 'pretzels']
>
> When I tried it I got:
>
> 2 ['shirt', 'bananas', 'nuts', 'socks', 'pretzels']
> 3 ['shirt', 'bananas', 'nuts', 'socks', 'pretzels']
>
> After thinking about it (and reviewing the Reference Manual), I realized
> that self.contents += items does an in place update of Bin.contents, but
> the augmented assignment self.numitems += 1, is the same as
> self.numitems = self.numitems+1 (since there is no in place update for
> integers or immutable objects in general), which has the result of
> creating the attribute numitems on the laundry and groceries instances.

An in-place add is really a read and a write.  The read finds the name in
the enclosing scope and the write puts the result in the local scope.  That
is why the numitems count works.  But for mutables, the in-place add
modifies the existing copy which happens to be shared by both instances.



> > ACT VI -----------------------------------------
> > print "What is the technical name for this algorithm or transformation?"
> > a = range(0, 100, 10)
> > import random
> > random.shuffle(a)
> > print "Input:", a
> > swaps = 0
> > for i in range(len(a)):
> >     for j in range(i+1, len(a)):
> >     if a[i] > a[j]:
> >         i, j, a[i], a[j], swaps = j, i, a[j], a[i], swaps+1
> > print "Output:", a
> > print "Workload;", swaps

> The assignment i,j, ... = j,i, ... . Kept me guessing. Why do that?

I gave to much a clue here.


> At this point I convinced myself that this was an interchange sort gone
> wrong and would just produce garbage. When I tried it, I discovered that
>   the correct technical name for this program is the identity
> transformation. That is, nothing happened.

Yes.  Identity is real answer.  Selection sort was the bait answer.

>
> Reexamining the code, I realized that flipping the two indices has the
> effect of assigning the two array elements back to themselves, resulting
> in no effect.
>
> About this point in time, I also realized that the sort should work if
> you take away the spurious assignments to i and j. That is,
>
> a[i], a[j], swaps = a[j], a[i], swaps
. . .
> What's the real lesson here?


Unfortunately, the example was too simple in that the i, j interchange
was superfluous.  I should have used the indices in a subsequent
line, so that folks would be guided to the more interesting fix:

    a[i], a[j], swaps, i, j = a[j], a[i], swaps+1, j, i

The point of the exercise was to note that the order of arguments
on the left-hand side matters -- they are assigned left to right.
The right hand side gets evaluated first (in left-to-right order),
the results are saved in a tuple, then the left hand assignments
are made one by one.  If one of the assignments changes an
index or key, the subsequent assignments are affected.


> OK, which three did Raymond personnally stumble over. I'll guess I, III,
> and VI. Why VI? Well, because V, while subtle in some ways, doesn't look
> to me like one you'd run into until you knew what you were doing, at
> which point: why this missing __init__ method. VI looks like something
> you might do by accident while trying to write a sort routine.

You guessed exactly right; however, number VI is a contrived
example.  The actual code was a heap sort demo derived from
from logic assertions and program transformations.  Multiple
assignment is frequently used in the type of design so that
invariants are maintained at every step.


>    Chris


Great job.  Nice analysis.
Also, I enjoyed the playful exploratory style
which captured the spirit of what the mystery
series is all about.


Raymond Hettinger





From spam at rjs.org  Tue Jul  1 02:44:30 2003
From: spam at rjs.org (RJS)
Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 06:44:30 GMT
Subject: problem w/ numarray & py2exe...
Message-ID: <Xns93AAF1C9A2081raysbluecovecom@66.75.162.196>

Hi all,

I can't get a py2exe compiled app to run with numarray (numarray-0.5.win32-
py2.2). 
Also wxPythonWIN32-2.3.3.1-Py22 and ActivePython-2.2.1-222.
In the sample below, commenting out "import numarray" allows the exe to 
run. Left in, I get "4.exe has generated errors" etc.

I'm going around and around and there isn't much on Google.
py2exe output is last.

With "Python 4.py" from the shell, all is well. Any ideas? Older numarray? 
Numeric?

Ray
http://rjs.org

############################### setup.py #############
from distutils.core import setup
import py2exe

setup(name="tf.4",
      scripts=["4.py"],
)

############################# 4.py code ################
from wxPython.wx import *
import numarray
import array
import operator
from random import Random


ID_STUB   = 10

ID_IMPORT_XRC   = 100
ID_PLOT         = 111
ID_TRAIN        = 122
ID_EXPORT_ONEREV= 124
ID_EXIT         = 199
ID_ABOUT        = 141

#############################  Class defs #############################

class MainFrame(wxFrame):
    def __init__(self, parent, ID, title):
        wxFrame.__init__(self, parent, ID, title, wxDefaultPosition, 
wxSize(800, 400))
        if wxPlatform == '__WXMSW__':
            self.icon = wxIcon('imagery/rotor.ico', wxBITMAP_TYPE_ICO)
            self.SetIcon(self.icon)
            self.Centre(direction = wxBOTH)

        self.CreateStatusBar()
        self.SetStatusText("Status: ready")

        ## create the menubar
        fileMenu = wxMenu()
        fileMenu.Append(ID_IMPORT_XRC, "Import &*.xrc", "Import an xrc data 
file")
        fileMenu.AppendSeparator()
        fileMenu.Append(ID_EXPORT_ONEREV, "&Export", "Export One Rev data")
        fileMenu.AppendSeparator()
        fileMenu.Append(ID_EXIT, "E&xit", "Terminate the program")

        toolsMenu = wxMenu()
        toolsMenu.Append(ID_STUB, "Color", "Change the color scheme")
        toolsMenu.AppendSeparator()
        toolsMenu.Append(ID_PLOT, "Plot", "Plot the data")
        toolsMenu.Append(ID_TRAIN, "Train", "Train on the data")

        helpMenu = wxMenu()
        helpMenu.Append(ID_STUB, "&Help", "Index and glossary")
        helpMenu.AppendSeparator()
        helpMenu.Append(ID_ABOUT, "&About", "More information about this 
program")

        menuBar = wxMenuBar()
        menuBar.Append(fileMenu, "&File");
        menuBar.Append(toolsMenu, "&Tools");
        menuBar.Append(helpMenu, "&Help");
        self.SetMenuBar(menuBar)

        EVT_MENU(self, ID_IMPORT_XRC, self.OnImportXRC)
        EVT_MENU(self, ID_PLOT, self.createPlot)
        EVT_MENU(self, ID_TRAIN, self.OnTraining)
        EVT_MENU(self, ID_EXPORT_ONEREV, self.OnExport)
        EVT_MENU(self, ID_ABOUT, self.OnAbout)
        EVT_MENU(self, ID_EXIT,  self.ExitFrame)
        
        ##### create and add notebook pages 
####################################################################
        self.nb = wxNotebook(self, -1)
        self.fontObj = wxFont(11, wxMODERN, wxNORMAL, wxNORMAL, false)

    def OnAbout(self, event):
        dlg = wxMessageDialog(self, "Welcome to\n"
                              "Turbine v.1\n",
                              "Welcome", wxOK | wxICON_INFORMATION)
        dlg.ShowModal()
        dlg.Destroy()
        self.nb.DeletePage(0)

    def ExitFrame(self, event):
        self.Close(true)


   # ----------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------
   # handlers.
   # ----------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------   

    def OnImportXRC(self, event):
        self.dataPoints = 5000
        # open the header file
        dlg = wxFileDialog (self, "Select the XRC file for import", "data", 
"", "*.xrc", wxOPEN)
        if dlg.ShowModal() == wxID_OK:
            try:
                self.filePath = dlg.GetPath()
            except IOError:
                dlg_m = wxMessageDialog (self,
                                        'There was an error opening the new 
xrc file.',
                                        'Error!', wxOK)
                dlg_m.ShowModal()
                dlg_m.Destroy() 
        dlg.Destroy()

    def createDataArray(self):
        # create the XRC tabs
        self.nb.xrcHeader = wxTextCtrl(self.nb, -1, "",wxPoint(0, 0), 
wxSize(75, 20), wxTE_MULTILINE|wxTE_RICH )
        self.nb.xrcHeader.SetStyle(0, self.nb.xrcHeader.GetLastPosition(), 
wxTextAttr("BLACK", wxNullColour, self.fontObj))
        self.nb.AddPage(self.nb.xrcHeader, "XRC Header: "+self.filePath)
        self.nb.xrcHeader.LoadFile(self.filePath)

    def createPlot(self, event=NULL):     
        plotWidthPoints = 5000

    def OnExport(self, event):
        self.nb.SetSelection(1)

    def OnTraining(self, event=NULL):
        firstSet = TRUE                


    def createOneRevPlot(self, pointsPerRev, revs):     
        plotWidthPoints = int(pointsPerRev)
        self.nb.AdvanceSelection()

    def OnExport(self, event):
        self.nb.SetSelection(3)
        
    def histogram(self,a, bins):
        return 1

############### Main application class ###########
class App(wxApp):
    def OnInit(self):
        frame = MainFrame(NULL, -1, "Turbine ")
        frame.Show(true)
        self.SetTopWindow(frame)
        return true


app = App(0)
app.MainLoop()









################# py2exe output #####################
D:\projects\fingerprinting>python setup.py py2exe
running py2exe
running build
running build_scripts
not copying 4.py (up-to-date)
running install_scripts
creating build\bdist.win32\winexe
creating build\bdist.win32\winexe\lib
creating build\bdist.win32\winexe\lib\Python
creating build\bdist.win32\winexe\lib\Python\Scripts
copying build\scripts-2.2\4.py -> 
build\bdist.win32\winexe\lib\Python\Scripts
copying build\scripts-2.2\tf.4.py -> 
build\bdist.win32\winexe\lib\Python\Scripts

copying build\scripts-2.2\tf.5.py -> 
build\bdist.win32\winexe\lib\Python\Scripts

+----------------------------------------------------
| Processing script 4.py with py2exe-0.3.4
+----------------------------------------------------
creating build\bdist.win32\winexe\collect
creating build\bdist.win32\winexe\collect\4
creating build\bdist.win32\winexe\collect\4\Scripts.py2exe
Searching modules needed to run '4.py' on path:
['D:\\projects\\fingerprinting\\build\\bdist.win32\\winexe\\lib\\Python\\Li
b\\si
te-packages', '', 'D:\\Python\\Lib\\site-packages\\Pythonwin', 
'D:\\Python\\Lib\
\site-packages\\win32', 'D:\\Python\\Lib\\site-packages\\win32\\lib', 
'D:\\Pytho
n\\Lib\\site-packages', 'D:\\Python\\DLLs', 'D:\\Python\\lib', 
'D:\\Python\\lib\
\lib-tk', 'D:\\Python', 'D:\\Python\\lib\\site-packages\\numarray']
force_imports =
Resolving binary dependencies:
  D:\Python\lib\site-packages\numarray\_numarray.pyd
  D:\Python\lib\site-packages\numarray\_operator.pyd
  D:\Python\Lib\site-packages\py2exe\run.exe
  D:\Python\Lib\site-packages\wxPython\utilsc.pyd
  D:\Python\lib\site-packages\numarray\_conv.pyd
  D:\Python\lib\site-packages\numarray\_bytes.pyd
  D:\Python\lib\site-packages\numarray\_ufunc.pyd
  D:\Python\lib\site-packages\numarray\_converter.pyd
  D:\Python\Lib\site-packages\wxPython\wxmsw233h.dll
  D:\Python\Lib\site-packages\wxPython\wxc.pyd
  C:\WIN2000\System32\python22.dll
  D:\Python\lib\site-packages\numarray\_ndarray.pyd
  D:\Python\lib\site-packages\numarray\memory.pyd
  D:\Python\lib\site-packages\numarray\_sort.pyd
  D:\Python\Lib\site-packages\wxPython\wxmsw232h.dll
  D:\Python\DLLs\_sre.pyd
ext_mapping = {
 '_conv': ('_conv.pyd', ('.pyd', 'rb', 3))
 '_ndarray': ('_ndarray.pyd', ('.pyd', 'rb', 3))
 '_sort': ('_sort.pyd', ('.pyd', 'rb', 3))
 '_converter': ('_converter.pyd', ('.pyd', 'rb', 3))
 '_numarray': ('_numarray.pyd', ('.pyd', 'rb', 3))
 '_ufunc': ('_ufunc.pyd', ('.pyd', 'rb', 3))
 '_operator': ('_operator.pyd', ('.pyd', 'rb', 3))
 '_bytes': ('_bytes.pyd', ('.pyd', 'rb', 3))
 'memory': ('memory.pyd', ('.pyd', 'rb', 3))
 'wxPython.utilsc': ('utilsc.pyd', ('.pyd', 'rb', 3))
 '_sre': ('_sre.pyd', ('.pyd', 'rb', 3))
 'wxPython.wxc': ('wxc.pyd', ('.pyd', 'rb', 3))
}
copying D:\Python\Lib\site-packages\py2exe\support.py -> 
build\bdist.win32\winex
e\collect\4\Scripts.py2exe
byte-compiling D:\Python\lib\pre.py to pre.pyc
byte-compiling D:\Python\lib\__future__.py to __future__.pyc
byte-compiling D:\Python\lib\copy_reg.py to copy_reg.pyc
byte-compiling D:\Python\Lib\site-packages\wxPython\fonts.py to 
wxPython\fonts.p
yc
byte-compiling D:\Python\Lib\site-packages\wxPython\windows.py to 
wxPython\windo
ws.pyc
byte-compiling D:\Python\lib\locale.py to locale.pyc
byte-compiling D:\Python\lib\random.py to random.pyc
byte-compiling D:\Python\lib\popen2.py to popen2.pyc
byte-compiling D:\Python\lib\stat.py to stat.pyc
byte-compiling D:\Python\lib\imputil.py to imputil.pyc
byte-compiling D:\Python\lib\site-packages\numarray\_ufuncall.py to 
_ufuncall.py
c
byte-compiling D:\Python\Lib\site-packages\wxPython\events.py to 
wxPython\events
.pyc
byte-compiling D:\Python\Lib\site-packages\wxPython\utils.py to 
wxPython\utils.p
yc
byte-compiling D:\Python\lib\site-packages\numarray\arrayprint.py to 
arrayprint.
pyc
byte-compiling D:\Python\lib\string.py to string.pyc
byte-compiling D:\Python\Lib\site-packages\wxPython\printfw.py to 
wxPython\print
fw.pyc
byte-compiling D:\Python\Lib\site-packages\wxPython\misc.py to 
wxPython\misc.pyc

byte-compiling D:\Python\lib\re.py to re.pyc
byte-compiling D:\Python\lib\tempfile.py to tempfile.pyc
byte-compiling D:\Python\lib\warnings.py to warnings.pyc
byte-compiling D:\Python\lib\site-packages\numarray\typeconv.py to 
typeconv.pyc
byte-compiling D:\Python\Lib\site-packages\wxPython\streams.py to 
wxPython\strea
ms.pyc
byte-compiling D:\Python\lib\sre_constants.py to sre_constants.pyc
byte-compiling D:\Python\lib\ntpath.py to ntpath.pyc
byte-compiling D:\Python\lib\sre_compile.py to sre_compile.pyc
byte-compiling D:\Python\lib\getopt.py to getopt.pyc
byte-compiling D:\Python\lib\site-packages\numarray\ufunc.py to ufunc.pyc
byte-compiling D:\Python\Lib\site-packages\wxPython\controls2.py to 
wxPython\con
trols2.pyc
byte-compiling D:\Python\Lib\site-packages\wxPython\windows3.py to 
wxPython\wind
ows3.pyc
byte-compiling D:\Python\Lib\site-packages\wxPython\stattool.py to 
wxPython\stat
tool.pyc
byte-compiling D:\Python\Lib\site-packages\wxPython\controls.py to 
wxPython\cont
rols.pyc
byte-compiling D:\Python\Lib\site-packages\wxPython\__version__.py to 
wxPython\_
_version__.pyc
byte-compiling D:\Python\lib\UserDict.py to UserDict.pyc
byte-compiling D:\Python\Lib\site-packages\wxPython\wx.py to 
wxPython\wx.pyc
byte-compiling D:\Python\Lib\site-packages\wxPython\sizers.py to 
wxPython\sizers
.pyc
byte-compiling D:\Python\lib\repr.py to repr.pyc
byte-compiling D:\Python\lib\sre_parse.py to sre_parse.pyc
byte-compiling D:\Python\lib\copy.py to copy.pyc
byte-compiling D:\Python\lib\site-packages\numarray\numerictypes.py to 
numericty
pes.pyc
byte-compiling D:\Python\lib\types.py to types.pyc
byte-compiling D:\Python\Lib\site-packages\wxPython\filesys.py to 
wxPython\files
ys.pyc
byte-compiling D:\Python\Lib\site-packages\wxPython\windows2.py to 
wxPython\wind
ows2.pyc
byte-compiling D:\Python\lib\dospath.py to dospath.pyc
byte-compiling D:\Python\lib\sre.py to sre.pyc
byte-compiling D:\Python\lib\site-packages\numarray\numarray.py to 
numarray.pyc
byte-compiling D:\Python\Lib\site-packages\wxPython\misc2.py to 
wxPython\misc2.p
yc
byte-compiling D:\Python\lib\site-packages\numarray\ndarray.py to 
ndarray.pyc
byte-compiling D:\Python\lib\linecache.py to linecache.pyc
byte-compiling D:\Python\Lib\site-packages\wxPython\frames.py to 
wxPython\frames
.pyc
byte-compiling D:\Python\Lib\site-packages\wxPython\__init__.py to 
wxPython\__in
it__.pyc
byte-compiling D:\Python\lib\posixpath.py to posixpath.pyc
byte-compiling D:\Python\lib\site-packages\numarray\numinclude.py to 
numinclude.
pyc
byte-compiling D:\Python\Lib\site-packages\wxPython\cmndlgs.py to 
wxPython\cmndl
gs.pyc
byte-compiling D:\Python\Lib\site-packages\wxPython\image.py to 
wxPython\image.p
yc
byte-compiling D:\Python\Lib\site-packages\wxPython\mdi.py to 
wxPython\mdi.pyc
byte-compiling D:\Python\Lib\site-packages\wxPython\gdi.py to 
wxPython\gdi.pyc
byte-compiling D:\Python\lib\os.py to os.pyc
byte-compiling D:\Python\Lib\site-packages\wxPython\clip_dnd.py to 
wxPython\clip
_dnd.pyc
copying 4.py -> 
build\bdist.win32\winexe\collect\4\Scripts.py2exe\__main__.py
changing into 'build\bdist.win32\winexe\collect\4'
zip -rq D:\projects\fingerprinting\build\bdist.win32\winexe\4.zip .
creating 'D:\projects\fingerprinting\build\bdist.win32\winexe\4.zip' and 
adding
'.' to it
changing back to 'D:\projects\fingerprinting'
creating dist\4\4.exe
warning: py2exe: could not parse version number ''
  No VersionInfo will be created
not copying D:\Python\lib\site-packages\numarray\_numarray.pyd (output up-
to-dat
e)
not copying D:\Python\lib\site-packages\numarray\_operator.pyd (output up-
to-dat
e)
not copying D:\Python\Lib\site-packages\wxPython\utilsc.pyd (output up-to-
date)
not copying D:\Python\lib\site-packages\numarray\_conv.pyd (output up-to-
date)
not copying D:\Python\lib\site-packages\numarray\_bytes.pyd (output up-to-
date)
not copying D:\Python\lib\site-packages\numarray\_ufunc.pyd (output up-to-
date)
not copying D:\Python\lib\site-packages\numarray\_converter.pyd (output up-
to-da
te)
not copying D:\Python\Lib\site-packages\wxPython\wxmsw233h.dll (output up-
to-dat
e)
not copying D:\Python\Lib\site-packages\wxPython\wxc.pyd (output up-to-
date)
not copying C:\WIN2000\System32\python22.dll (output up-to-date)
not copying D:\Python\lib\site-packages\numarray\_ndarray.pyd (output up-
to-date
)
not copying D:\Python\lib\site-packages\numarray\memory.pyd (output up-to-
date)
not copying D:\Python\lib\site-packages\numarray\_sort.pyd (output up-to-
date)
not copying D:\Python\Lib\site-packages\wxPython\wxmsw232h.dll (output up-
to-dat
e)
not copying D:\Python\DLLs\_sre.pyd (output up-to-date)
warning: py2exe: 
***************************************************************
**********
warning: py2exe: * The following modules were not found:
warning: py2exe: *   cmndlgsc
warning: py2exe: *   imagec
warning: py2exe: *   clip_dndc
warning: py2exe: *   windows3c
warning: py2exe: *   filesysc
warning: py2exe: *   eventsc
warning: py2exe: *   windows2c
warning: py2exe: *   controlsc
warning: py2exe: *   misc2c
warning: py2exe: *   os.path
warning: py2exe: *   windowsc
warning: py2exe: *   stattoolc
warning: py2exe: *   printfwc
warning: py2exe: *   gdic
warning: py2exe: *   sizersc
warning: py2exe: *   mdic
warning: py2exe: *   fontsc
warning: py2exe: *   streamsc
warning: py2exe: *   miscc
warning: py2exe: *   controls2c
warning: py2exe: *   framesc
warning: py2exe: 
***************************************************************
**********
removing 'build\bdist.win32\winexe\collect\4' (and everything under it)
Built File dist\4\4.exe
removing 'build\bdist.win32\winexe' (and everything under it)



From kmj9907 at cs.rit.edu  Wed Jul 30 16:02:28 2003
From: kmj9907 at cs.rit.edu (Keith Jones)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 20:02:28 GMT
Subject: Misuse of <tab>
References: <3f27f0e3$1@news.broadpark.no> <vifvcvqdd4mf4@news.supernews.com> <RbTVa.8214$gU6.967766@twister.nyc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2003.07.30.20.07.18.351027@cs.rit.edu>

On Wed, 30 Jul 2003 17:25:05 +0000, max wrote:

> The problem with spaces is that you need to do 5 times the work of a tab
> to get decent-looking indentation :).

Not if you have a good editor.. Use vim or emacs. In vim, try :h sts (I
think, or :h softtabstop) ...it would suck to have to type
<space><space><space><space> all the time, but you don't. :)



From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Wed Jul 30 10:02:13 2003
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 30 Jul 2003 10:02:13 -0400
Subject: Thank you developers for 2.3
References: <aOIVa.8149$yv1.7974@nwrddc02.gnilink.net>
Message-ID: <bg8j55$pvf$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <aOIVa.8149$yv1.7974 at nwrddc02.gnilink.net>,
David Lees  <abcdebl2nonspammy at verizon.net> wrote:
>
>Flawless install and it ran my very simple minded (try not to laugh) 
>nested loop integer arithmetic benchmark twice as fast as 2.2.3
>version 2.3      5.04 sec
>version 2.2.3    9.77 sec
>
>import time
>
>def speedTest(N):
>     t1 = time.time()
>     k = 0
>     for i in xrange(N):
>         for j in xrange(N):
>             k += (i+j)
>
>     t2 = time.time()
>     return t2-t1
>
>print speedTest(3000)

That primarily tests the speed of the warnings module.  Test starting
with 0L instead.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

This is Python.  We don't care much about theory, except where it intersects 
with useful practice.  --Aahz



From kern at taliesen.caltech.edu  Fri Jul 25 22:14:52 2003
From: kern at taliesen.caltech.edu (Robert Kern)
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 02:14:52 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: LGPL and Java, and Python?
References: <slrnbi275k.2ce.alf@largo.fayauffre.org>
Message-ID: <bfso6s$hld$1@naig.caltech.edu>

In article <slrnbi275k.2ce.alf at largo.fayauffre.org>,
	Alexandre Fayolle <alf at fayauffre.org> writes:
> Hello,
> 
> Reading Debian Weekly News, I learnt that there seem to be a problem
> when importing an LGPL'd java library (this forces the importer to be
> LGPL'd too), making the LGPL license equivalent to the GPL for Java
> programs. 

Apparently, this whole mess was a misunderstanding. The LGPL works as expected
with Java.

http://lists.debian.org/debian-legal/2003/debian-legal-200307/msg00234.html

-- 
Robert Kern
kern at caltech.edu

"In the fields of hell where the grass grows high
 Are the graves of dreams allowed to die."
  -- Richard Harter



From alan.gauld at btinternet.com  Wed Jul  9 14:40:18 2003
From: alan.gauld at btinternet.com (Alan Gauld)
Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 18:40:18 GMT
Subject: Odp: Newbie - No module named stdwin
References: <beh8d4$gnu$1@topaz.icpnet.pl> <cEmdnTR7Cpmct5GiRTvUqg@speakeasy.net> <behb4c$iov$1@topaz.icpnet.pl>
Message-ID: <3f0c60c1.172901258@news.blueyonder.co.uk>

On Wed, 9 Jul 2003 17:07:18 +0200, "K" <milyon at wp.pl> wrote:

> > includes Tkinter; the other interfaces would be add-on packages.
> >
> > --amk
> ok thanks so how command can open a window ?

See my previous post, however usually in Python you don't need to
open a window, unless you are writing a full GUI program. So
maybe we need to ask what it is you are doing that requires that
you "open a window"?

To get user input use raw_input() function
To present info(error messages and results etc)  
to the user use print statements.

If you want to draw graphics then OK maybe you do 
need a window, but maybe the turtle package would do?

While programming GUI style is quite possible in Python, its
usually best to master the basics first!

Alan g.



From rnd at onego.ru  Mon Jul 21 10:40:41 2003
From: rnd at onego.ru (Roman Suzi)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 18:40:41 +0400 (MSD)
Subject: Be Honest about LC_NUMERIC (PEP proposal), was Re: [Python-Dev]
 LC_NUMERIC and C libraries
In-Reply-To: <20030721141005.GC756@async.com.br>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0307211826480.12266-100000@suzi.com.onego.ru>

On Mon, 21 Jul 2003, Christian Reis wrote:

> Title: 	Be Honest about LC_NUMERIC (to the C library)

I recall once I mistakenly set LC_NUMERIC="ru_RU"
After that it was impossible to attach files in pine
mailer, because it showed file size with "," instead of "."
and at the same time understood "," as a file list separator...

So I'd prefered all these peculiarities to be ignored as much as
possible.

Sincerely yours, Roman A.Suzi
-- 
 - Petrozavodsk - Karelia - Russia - mailto:rnd at onego.ru -
 





From MatthewS at HeyAnita.com  Mon Jul 28 14:45:18 2003
From: MatthewS at HeyAnita.com (Matt Shomphe)
Date: 28 Jul 2003 11:45:18 -0700
Subject: How to properly package/distribute a pure python module?
Message-ID: <5ab0af73.0307281045.6cb13cfe@posting.google.com>

Are there any guidelines for packaging a pure python module? 
Specifically, say I have a set of 10 functions, all of varying
behaviors (no unifying theme to bind them together into clear
subsets), that I would like to make available to others.  What is the
best structure for the distributed module?  A single file called
"functions.py" that people can put in "site-packages"[1]?  A
subdirectory called "MyFunctions" with an "__init__.py" and the
"functions.py" files[2]?  Or should the functions be broken out into
individual files[3]?

I'm sure it depends on some other factorsbut are there general rules
for constructing a nice, logical package for others to use?

[1] site-packages/functions.py (from functions import f1)
[2] site-packages/MyFunctions/functions.py, __init__.py (from
MyFunctions.functions import f1)
[3] site-packages/MyFunctions/__init__.py, f1.py, f2.py, f3.py (from
MyFunctions.f1 import f1)



From bokr at oz.net  Thu Jul 31 10:45:19 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 31 Jul 2003 14:45:19 GMT
Subject: RELEASED Python 2.3 (final)
References: <mailman.1059523523.23534.python-list@python.org> <3f27bacd$0$49113$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl> <c76ff6fc.0307301323.62f3ccd6@posting.google.com> <bg9hgu$k31$1@panix2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <bgba1v$fus$0@216.39.172.122>

On 30 Jul 2003 18:40:30 -0400, aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) wrote:

>In article <c76ff6fc.0307301323.62f3ccd6 at posting.google.com>,
>John Machin <sjmachin at lexicon.net> wrote:
>>
>>So ... could we please change that to "much kudos"?
>
>Nope.  Kudos is a mass noun, but it's a discrete mass noun.  So you need
>to say "many kudos".  This bit of pedantry is brought to you by "much
>kudo about nothing".

"""
kudos, Greek for glory, became an English slang word
of limited currency at a time when Greek was more widely learnt,
and is now, it seems, sometimes mistaken for a plural.
"""
H.W.Fowler, in "A Dictionary of Modern English Usage," 2nd ed., 1965

(Elsewhere it does acknowledge that Edmund Wilson wrote of
American usage in 1963, "Kudos seems now to be well established
as the plural of a word meaning "honourable mention
or prize or something of the sort.")

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From bokr at oz.net  Sun Jul 13 20:38:56 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 14 Jul 2003 00:38:56 GMT
Subject: removing spaces from front and end of filenames
References: <beqdf0$m2q$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <93f5c5e9.0307130843.3e3e3daa@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <besu30$597$0@216.39.172.122>

On 13 Jul 2003 09:43:46 -0700, hokiegal99 at hotmail.com (hokiegal99) wrote:

>Ha!!
>
>Fixed it with this bit of code:
>
>for root, dirs, files in os.walk('/home/BradTill/python'):
>    for file in files:
>        fname = (file)
>        fname = fname.strip( )
>	newfile = fname
>	if newfile:
     for fname in files:
         newfile = fname.strip()
         if newfile!=fname:  
>	    newpath = os.path.join(root,newfile)
>            oldpath = os.path.join(root,file)
>            os.rename(oldpath,newpath)
>	    print oldpath
>	    print newpath
>
I'd suggest using four spaces instead of tabs ;-)

Why not do the whole thing in one loop? (Ignore my prev post suggestion for final
renaming loop just for spaces):

#XXX# untested !!
import re, os
percent2f_n_bad = re.compile(r'%2f|[*?<>/|\\]') # look for bad chars too
for root, dirs, files in os.walk('/home/rbt/scripts'):
     for fname in files:  
          newfile = percent2f_n_bad.sub('-', fname)
          newfile.strip() # and the space thing
          if newfile != fname: # you really only need to know if something changed, right?
              newpath = os.path.join(root,newfile)
              oldpath = os.path.join(root,fname)
              os.rename(oldpath,newpath)
              print `oldpath` # backticks to get quoted repr, to see spaces
              print `newpath`

Or am I missing something?

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From andrew.henshaw at gtri.gatech.edu  Sun Jul 27 23:07:07 2003
From: andrew.henshaw at gtri.gatech.edu (Andrew Henshaw)
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 23:07:07 -0400
Subject: wxPython wxListBox problem
References: <pan.2003.07.27.18.28.00.299031@moor.pe.kr_NOSPAM_>
Message-ID: <vi94sbsq4le299@corp.supernews.com>

nabugoon wrote:

> How can I add 100000 lists in wxListBox?
> 
> When I tried, it stop because of overhead.
> 
> In demo application, Some Grid Control handles 1000000 data.
> 
> So I think it is possible that I add 100000 lists.
> 
> Do I have to use another control?
> 
> Any idea?
> 
> TIA.

Check the wxListCtrl_virtual example in the Demo app.

-- 
Andy




From fredrik at pythonware.com  Thu Jul 10 16:49:06 2003
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 22:49:06 +0200
Subject: sort() doesn't work on dist.keys() ?
References: <6cd58b6.0307101214.34e99f2a@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bekjge$gm0$1@main.gmane.org>

Steve Pinard wrote:

> New to Python, so please bear with me.
>
> >>> import sys
> >>> print sys.modules.keys()          # works fine
> ['code', ...snip... ]
> >>> print sys.modules.keys().sort()   # returns None, why?
> None
>
> According to my reference (Nutshell), keys() returns a
> "copy" of the dict keys as a list, so I would expect when
> I aply sort() to that list, I would get an in-place sorted
> version of that list.  Why do I get None?

because sort returns None, not a reference to the list.
see the FAQ for details:

    http://www.python.org/doc/FAQ.html#6.20

to fix this, use the return key:

    keys = sys.modules.keys()
    keys.sort()
    print keys

</F>







From usenet at soraia.com  Thu Jul 10 13:47:41 2003
From: usenet at soraia.com (Joe Francia)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 17:47:41 GMT
Subject: replace value of a specific position
In-Reply-To: <bek8ce$ok2$1@news.uni-kl.de>
References: <bek8ce$ok2$1@news.uni-kl.de>
Message-ID: <3F0DA6FB.90603@soraia.com>

Tom wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I want to replace a specific part of a string. I tried replace but this 
> doesn't work the way I want it, because it checks and replaces all 
> values and not the position (index).
> 
> t = '010010101001001110100101010111'
> t = t.replace(t[5], '2')
> 
> This is just a bad example of what I tried. It produces this output:
> 
> 212212121221221112122121212111
> 
> But I wanted:
> 
> 010012101001001110100101010111
> 
> I couldn't find anything in the python library. I probably looked at the 
> wrong place! :-) That's why I would appreciate your help.
> 
> Thank you very much, Tom
> 

Strings are immutable in Python.  Try something like:

 >>> t = '010010101001001110100101010111'
 >>> t = string.join([t[:5], '2', t[6:]], '')
 >>> t
010012101001001110100101010111

jf




From michael at foord.net  Fri Jul 11 19:00:53 2003
From: michael at foord.net (Fuzzyman)
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 00:00:53 +0100
Subject: The ASPN compiler
Message-ID: <u8gugvovob6k3jou2oi4olsr6mp1fbqlqn@4ax.com>

What's the score on this (the ASPN python compiler) - is it a true
compiler for python ? - what does it output - binary or C++ for .NET
framework............ if the latter then it could be very cool as it
may work with the PocketPC 2003 SDK.... for producing binaries for
PDAs from python... cool...
(I'm sure my terminology is way out of line here... sorry)

Does it work yet ?

Fuzzyman
---
Everyone has talent. What is rare is the courage to follow talent to the dark place where it leads. -Erica Jong
Ambition is a poor excuse for not having sense enough to be lazy. -Milan Kundera 

http://www.voidspace.org.uk 
Where Headspace Meets Cyberspace
Cyberpunk and Science Resource Site
Exploring the worlds of Psychology, Spirituality, Science and Computing
--
http://www.fuchsiashockz.co.uk
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/void-shockz
http://www.learnlandrover.com



From m at moshez.org  Wed Jul 16 07:08:09 2003
From: m at moshez.org (Moshe Zadka)
Date: 16 Jul 2003 11:08:09 -0000
Subject: How about using python to write a CMS?
In-Reply-To: <bf38et$sp9$1@news.seed.net.tw>
References: <bf38et$sp9$1@news.seed.net.tw>
Message-ID: <20030716110809.3711.qmail@green.zadka.com>

On Wed, 16 Jul 2003, <toofat at world.com> wrote:

> To write a CMS, everyone is thinking about PHP

They are? Some[0] would find it surprising[1]...

[0]http://www.zope.org
[1]http://www.plone.org
-- 
Moshe Zadka -- http://moshez.org/
Buffy: I don't like you hanging out with someone that... short.
Riley: Yeah, a lot of young people nowadays are experimenting with shortness.
Agile Programming Language -- http://www.python.org/




From bokr at oz.net  Mon Jul 28 12:59:01 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 28 Jul 2003 16:59:01 GMT
Subject: Seeing next character in an file
References: <CDFUa.42241$wk4.27296@twister.nyroc.rr.com> <pan.2003.07.27.03.01.52.505599@rochester.rr.com> <bg12ih$70l$0@216.39.172.122> <mailman.1059393521.4012.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bg3kol$69u$0@216.39.172.122>

On Mon, 28 Jul 2003 12:54:57 +0100, Richie Hindle <richie at entrian.com> wrote:

>
>[Keith]
>> def peek(self, cnt):
>>     data = self.read(cnt)
>>     self.seek(cnt * -1, 1)
>>     return data
>> 	
>> def peekline(self):
>>     pos = self.tell()
>>     data = self.readline()
>>     self.seek(pos, 0)
>>     return data
>
>[Bengt]
>> if you're going to seek/tell, best to do it in binary, and deal with the platform dependent EOLs.
>
>seek() works perfectly with text-mode files as long as you only seek to
>places given to you by tell().  So if Keith's peek() function had used
>tell() and then seek()ed (sought()? 8-) back to that point like his
>peekline() does, there would be no problem.
>
Can you cite a C or C++ standard section that guarantees that seek/tell
will work that way in text mode? (I'm not saying there isn't one, but
I couldn't find one quickly ;-)

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From florian.konnertz at web.de  Mon Jul  7 18:49:18 2003
From: florian.konnertz at web.de (Florian Konnertz)
Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 00:49:18 +0200
Subject: doublequotes in regexp 1.5.2 - zope/externalmethod
Message-ID: <bed11r$ssr$05$1@news.t-online.com>

Hi,

I have to do a little script for an old zope website running on 
python1.5.2 and have a regexp problem.

(for those who know zope: I have to change all stx links in a dtml doc 
to html which is not done for any reason. It's an old zope (2.3.2) :( 
python is 1.5.2  I tried with string.find, but i get a "string object 
has no atribute 'find'" error - find is documented for python-1.5.2 :-/
So i guesses i have to use an External Method where i can use re.)

In this method i do a re.findall for the stx link, i tried with several 
expressions, and one i need to use does not work which seems quite 
strange to me. I tried to track this down to the simplest parts, but up 
to now unsuccessfully so i need your help, please.
BTW in cli mode everything is fine if i start the same script with python1.5
Apparently it's a fault of the '"' character, the double quotes.

Here are the most simple pattern i tried, the double quotes quoted with 
\ and not, in triple quotes and not etc. Everytime i add the double 
quotes, my pattern fails. And my text definetly has several stx links in 
it!!

pattern = r'"\S+'
pattern = r'''"\S+'''
pattern = r'''\"\S+'''

Everything without d.quotes is ok, i.e.
urlchars         = r'[A-Za-z0-9/:@_%~#=&\.\-\?\+\$,]+'
urlendchar       = r'[A-Za-z0-9/]'
url              = r'["=]?((about|gopher|http|https|ftp|mailto|file):%s' 
   % urlendchar

this is the pattern i need:
link = r'(".+?"):%s' % (url)

which works fine on the cli.

TIA,
Florian


-- 
Florian Konnertz   ---   http://www.florian-konnertz.de	
http://openspirit.homelinux.net/noowiki/FrontPage
ZWiki about all topics, especially consciousness research
and wisdom traditions




From ofnap at nus.edu.sg  Fri Jul 11 11:16:33 2003
From: ofnap at nus.edu.sg (Ajith Prasad)
Date: 11 Jul 2003 08:16:33 -0700
Subject: Python in Excel
References: <mailman.1057271286.23358.python-list@python.org> <1u3Na.12730$U23.8210@nwrdny01.gnilink.net> <873chm9w7o.fsf@pobox.com> <be5amo$2phm$1@adenine.netfront.net>
Message-ID: <37ee60c8.0307110716.74f7c4c9@posting.google.com>

This looks very useful to Excel users who would like to tap the power
of Python. However, not knowing enough about VBA syntax it was not
possible to  proceed beyond step(a). Is it possible to provide an
Idiot's guide to steps (b), (c),(d) and (e)? In other words, what is
the explicit VBA code/steps need to do (b) and (c) and could simple
(even trivial) examples be given of steps (d) and (e). Thanks in
advance.


hannibal <hannibal1812 at canada.com> wrote in message news:<be5amo$2phm$1 at adenine.netfront.net>...
> You can use Microsoft Script Control. If you have the win32 extensions 
> of python, you can use python in place of vb in this control
> 
> -(a)open the VBA script editor - In menus/Tools/References add Microsoft 
> Script Control
> -(b)Make a new module and declare a new MsScriptControl.ScriptControl
> 	Global sc as new MsScriptControl.ScriptControl
> -(c)Initialize the language attibute with python - Note that you and users 
> of your document must have python and its win32 extensions installed. 
> Activestate python distribustion include it.
> You can put
> 	sc.language="python"
> in the routine Workbook_Open()
> 
> (d)Now you can import python modules using ExecuteStatement method of the 
> control in vba and have results from python functions with eval method. 
> (e)One interesting thing is that you can pass an object to the control with 
> AddObject method and have python manipulate it. And so on..
> 
> 
> 
> John J. Lee a ?crit :
> > "Tom Locke" <tom at liveDELETE-MElogix.com> writes:
> > 
> > 
> >>>>Can I write Excel macros/scripts using Python?
> >>>>
> >>>>I mean to actually put Python into an Excel document, not using
> >>>>Python to access data, for example, from some Excel document.
> >>
> >>These days you can script office with any .NET language, and that includes
> >>Python:
> > 
> > [...]
> > 
> > Or use good old COM.  There's an example of controlling Excel (the
> > version from Office 2000) in the Python for Windows Extensions (aka
> > win32all) COM test code.  IIRC, it'll be somewhere like
> > C:\Python\win32com\tests\.
> > 
> > 
> > John
> 
> ---
> Posted via news://freenews.netfront.net
> Complaints to news at netfront.net



From sybrenUSE at YOURthirdtower.imagination.com  Tue Jul 29 08:08:50 2003
From: sybrenUSE at YOURthirdtower.imagination.com (Sybren Stuvel)
Date: 29 Jul 2003 12:08:50 GMT
Subject: variable assignment in "while" loop
Message-ID: <slrnbicoqq.6gh.sybrenUSE@sybren.thirdtower.com>

Hi there,

Is it possible to use an assignment in a while-loop? I'd like to do
something like "loop while there is still something to be read, and if
there is, put it in this variable". I've been a C programmer since I
was 14, so a construct like:

while info = mydbcursor.fetchone():
	print "Information: "+str(info)

comes to mind. Unfortunately, this doesn't work. Is there a similar
construct in python?

Sybren

PS: This is a supersede. If it didn't work out and you saw two
messages with the same content, please ignore the oldest one.
-- 
The problem with the world is stupidity. Not saying there should be a
capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the
safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself? 



From jepler at unpythonic.net  Thu Jul 17 14:03:59 2003
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 13:03:59 -0500
Subject: anything like C++ references?
In-Reply-To: <i_2dnT9-LNUBRIuiXTWJiQ@comcast.com>
References: <000301c348c7$3c501980$21795418@dell1700> <sag3hv4vf884ed7ouu5cv8ofnopp9j1t12@4ax.com> <f0f51c80.0307132003.264b6894@posting.google.com> <7dc4hvslh7a8fk9p6cvsfqa1c8d44rmmnv@4ax.com> <beuepu$bsm$1@panix3.panix.com> <sdd6hvsmsq32o62oknpqft6dc61lbup8rn@4ax.com> <20030714173855120-0600@news.xmission.com> <9mh6hv45v18apgn6lp7bo6mm63e5oba9rd@4ax.com> <f0f51c80.0307150921.7b6667e2@posting.google.com> <i_2dnT9-LNUBRIuiXTWJiQ@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <20030717180354.GA30143@unpythonic.net>

On Thu, Jul 17, 2003 at 01:15:03PM -0400, Terry Reedy wrote:
> 
> "Adam Ruth" <owski at hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:f0f51c80.0307150921.7b6667e2 at posting.google.com...
> > register int x = 5;
> > int *y = &x;
> >
> > This also cannot be done.  Why?  Different semantics for register
> > variables.
> 
> Minor nit: 'register' is not a mandate, but an ignorable suggestion.
> So a compiler either could or must ignore 'register' in able to make
> '&x' possible.

I suspect that the compiler *must* issue a diagnostic for the code in
question.  That phrase, common in the C standard, doesn't mean that the
compiler can't also go on to produce an object file/executable, or that
it might not be operating in conformant mode by default (gcc does many
things a conformant C compiler could not, unless -ansi is specified)

But yes, 'register' was never a mandate.  I suspect that the reason it
was included in C originally was twofold:  First, the compiler was not
powerful enough to take two passes over a function body, one to
determine whether the addressof operator was ever used for a particular
variable, and a second to generate code.  Second, the compiler was also
not powerful enough to do the kind of analysis needed to choose
registers for variables.  With those constraints, suddenly code like
    while(*p++ = *q++) ;
improves by a factor of two or more as soon as you write
    register char *p, *q;
instead of just
    char *p, *q;
... well, that hasn't been the case for 15 years or more now.

> Of course, the idea of ignorable keyword suggestion is itself somewhat
> strange ;-)

Not at all.  Many proposals for efficient translation from Python to
native code include a notion of type hints.  Python can freely ignore
them (or translate them into runtime 'assert isinstance' or 'assert
hasattr' statements) but the new compiler would use them to generate
efficient code using native datatypes...

    def fact(n):
        if n == 0: return 1
        return fact(n-1) * n
    typeassert(RETURN_VALUE, fact, union(int,long))
    typeassert(PARAMAETERS, fact, (int,))

Jeff




From petri.savolainen at iki.fi  Tue Jul  1 18:43:03 2003
From: petri.savolainen at iki.fi (Petri Savolainen)
Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 22:43:03 GMT
Subject: how to dynamically create a function object (from a code object)?
Message-ID: <X7oMa.366$4y6.92@read3.inet.fi>

After reading the manuals and googling around a bit, I thought I'd use 
the 'compile' built-in to create a code object. Then, using either 
new.function() or types.FunctionType(), create a function object out of 
the code object. The function object can then be turned into a method 
for example using types.MethodType(). Right? Well, on Windows 98, using 
python 2.2.2 (or 2.3b2):

 >>> c=compile('def a(msg): return msg','<nowhere>','exec')
 >>> f=types.FunctionType(c,globals(),'a')
 >>> f
 >>> <code object ? at 00F8A9E0, file "<nowhere>", line 1>
 >>> f('hello')

Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<pyshell#136>", line 1, in -toplevel-
     f('hello')
TypeError: ?() takes no arguments (1 given)

 >>> f()
 >>>
 >>> a('hello')
 >>> 'hello'
 >>>

This is, well, not what I would have expected.

After peeking around in the code object, I found out its 'co_const' 
instance variable also contains a code object - which, it seems, should 
really be fed to the function creation methods:

 >>> c.co_consts
(<code object a at 00F8A960, file "<nowhere>", line 1>, None)
 >>> f=types.FunctionType(c.co_consts[0],globals(),'a')
 >>> f('hello')
'hello'
 >>>

Which is the behaviour I would have expected in the first place!

I would really like to know what I am doing wrong here, or any 
clarification regarding what is going on above... I dare not hope having 
found a bug :-P

Thanks,

  Petri




From wettering at comcast.net  Thu Jul 31 14:11:13 2003
From: wettering at comcast.net (Mark VandeWettering)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 18:11:13 GMT
Subject: Python's biggest compromises
References: <899f842.0307310555.56134f71@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <slrnbiimtp.121e.wettering@keck.vandewettering.net>

In article <899f842.0307310555.56134f71 at posting.google.com>,
Anthony_Barker wrote:

> I have been reading a book about the evolution of the Basic
> programming language. The author states that Basic - particularly
> Microsoft's version is full of compromises which crept in along the
> language's 30+ year evolution.
> 
> What to you think python largest compromises are?
> 
> The three that come to my mind are significant whitespace, dynamic
> typing, and that it is interpreted - not compiled. These three put
> python under fire and cause some large projects to move off python or
> relegate it to prototyping.

I don't view any of these as "compromises".  That word suggests that
something was conceded, or that an intermediate position between two
extremes was chosen to appease.  I don't think that either sense really
applies to these features.

The three items that you listed are merely design choices.  While arguments
over them are continuous, two of the design choices (interpreter, dynamic 
typing) are consistent with Python's intended use as a language which 
excels at rapid prototyping.  The third (white space) is merely a stylistic
choice which is designed to encourage readable programs.  

"Compromises" in language design occur usually when a committee tries to 
standardize a language, and each has differing views about how the language
should be used.   While this occurs somewhat in Python, other languages
have suffered more mightily from this particular disorder.  
	
	Mark

> Anthony
> http://xminc.com/anthony



From bignose-hates-spam at and-benfinney-does-too.id.au  Thu Jul 24 00:06:00 2003
From: bignose-hates-spam at and-benfinney-does-too.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: 24 Jul 2003 13:56:00 +0950
Subject: file.close()
References: <edITa.131868$Ph3.17333@sccrnsc04> <3F1F5297.15D768EF@alcyone.com> <slrnbhukr8.13c.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local> <3F1F5CB2.7FB4C205@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <slrnbhunuo.13c.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>

Bryan (original poster) wrote:
> f1 = file('file1')
> try:
>     f2 = file('file2')
>     try:
>          # process f1 & f2
>     finally:
>        f2.close()
> finally:
>    f1.close()


On Wed, 23 Jul 2003 21:12:34 -0700, Erik Max Francis wrote:
> Ben Finney wrote:
>> It seems that nesting the 'try' clauses doesn't scale well.  What if
>> fifty files are opened?  Must the nesting level of the 'try' clauses
>> be fifty also, to close them promptly?
> 
> If you're manipulating fifty files in one block, presumably you're
> doing so in a uniform way:
> 
> 	allFiles = [...]
> 	try:
> 	    ...
> 	finally:
> 	    for eachFile in allFiles:
> 	        eachFile.close()

This doesn't match Bryan's nested structure above, which you blessed as
not "overkill" (in his words).  It was this that I considered a
poorly-scaling structure, or "overkill" since only one 'try' block is
required.  Do you disagree?

-- 
 \                "Too many Indians spoil the golden egg."  -- Sir Joh |
  `\                                                   Bjelke-Petersen |
_o__)                                                                  |
http://bignose.squidly.org/ 9CFE12B0 791A4267 887F520C B7AC2E51 BD41714B



From bokr at oz.net  Fri Jul 11 01:45:39 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 11 Jul 2003 05:45:39 GMT
Subject: sort() doesn't work on dist.keys() ?
References: <6cd58b6.0307101214.34e99f2a@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <beliu3$46k$0@216.39.172.122>

On 10 Jul 2003 13:14:01 -0700, spinard at ra.rockwell.com (Steve Pinard) wrote:

>(Got a comm error trying to post first time, sorry if this
>is a duplicate)
>
>New to Python, so please bear with me.
>
>>>> import sys
>>>> print sys.modules.keys()          # works fine
>['code', ...snip... ]
>>>> print sys.modules.keys().sort()   # returns None, why?
>None
>
>According to my reference (Nutshell), keys() returns a
>"copy" of the dict keys as a list, so I would expect when
>I aply sort() to that list, I would get an in-place sorted
>version of that list.  Why do I get None?
>
It's a reasonable question. Some would probably like it to work that way,
but it doesn't. Try it with any list:

 >>> any = [3,1,5,2,4,0]
 >>> any
 [3, 1, 5, 2, 4, 0]
 >>> print any.sort()
 None
 >>> any
 [0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5]

The sort happens, but a reference to the result is not returned, just None.
In your example the temporary list gets sorted but doesn't get bound to a name
or other place so you can't get to it. So do it in two steps:

any = sys.modules.keys()
any.sort()

Now any should be what you want.

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From eric.brunel at pragmadev.com  Wed Jul  2 04:31:19 2003
From: eric.brunel at pragmadev.com (Eric Brunel)
Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 10:31:19 +0200
Subject: How do I get the fractions of the visible part of a canvas?
References: <mailman.1057132743.10115.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bdu4rk$mi3$1@news-reader2.wanadoo.fr>

Mickel Gr?nroos wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I have a Tkinter.Canvas of variable width. Is there a standard way of
> asking the canvas which parts of it that is visible? I.e. on the
> horizontal scale, I would like to know at what fraction from the left the
> left visibility border is and from what fraction to the right the right
> visibility border is.
> 
> Consider this ascii picture as an example
> 
> +-------------------------------+
> |                               |<-- the full canvas
> |     a------------------+      |
> |     |                  |<--------- the currently visible part
> |     +------------------b      |
> |                               |
> +-------------------------------+
> 
> I would like to be able to ask the canvas something like:
> 
> t = canvas.visiblebox()
> 
> and it would return a two-tuple of two-tuples with coordinates (of the
> a and b points in the picture above), say:
> 
> t = ((10,10), (90,30))
> 
> Using these values I could calculate the fractions myself.
> 
> Any ideas?

This should do what you want:

--------------------------------
from Tkinter import *

## Initialize Tk
root = Tk()
root.grid_rowconfigure(0, weight=1)
root.grid_columnconfigure(0, weight=1)

## Create the canvas
cnv = Canvas(root, scrollregion=(0, 0, 1000, 1000), width=200, height=200)
cnv.grid(row=0, column=0, sticky='nswe')

## Create the scrollbars
hs = Scrollbar(root, orient=HORIZONTAL, command=cnv.xview)
vs = Scrollbar(root, orient=VERTICAL, command=cnv.yview)
cnv.configure(xscrollcommand=hs.set, yscrollcommand=vs.set)
hs.grid(row=1, column=0, sticky='we')
vs.grid(row=0, column=1, sticky='ns')

## This is the function you want:
def showVisibleRegion():
   x1, y1 = cnv.canvasx(0), cnv.canvasy(0)
   w, h = cnv.winfo_width(), cnv.winfo_height()
   x2, y2 = cnv.canvasx(w), cnv.canvasy(h)
   print x1, y1, x2, y2

b = Button(root, text='Show', command=showVisibleRegion)
b.grid(row=2, column=0, columnspan=2)

root.mainloop()
--------------------------------

The methods canvasx and canvasy on a Canvas convert a coordinate in the 
displayed canvas to a coordinate in the underlying region:

+------------------------------+
|                              |
|                              |
|   +----------------------+   |
|   |                      |   |
|   |<--x-->|              |   |
|   |       +              |   |
|   |       |              |   |
|   +-------|--------------+   |
|<---xx---->|                  |
|                              |
+------------------------------+

Here, cnv.canvasx(x) = xx

So, taking the canvasx and canvasy of (0, 0) gives you the coordinates for the 
top-left corner of the region you want, and taking the canvasx and canvasy of 
the canvas's dimensions gives you the bottom-right one.

HTH
-- 
- Eric Brunel <eric.brunel at pragmadev.com> -
PragmaDev : Real Time Software Development Tools - http://www.pragmadev.com




From klappnase at freenet.de  Sun Jul 20 19:29:10 2003
From: klappnase at freenet.de (klappnase)
Date: 20 Jul 2003 16:29:10 -0700
Subject: Newbie! I'm a newbie! What's wrong with this program?
References: <5da8e4b3.0307191800.48dc0a6d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <9a410299.0307201529.4485efa@posting.google.com>

InsaneStewy at hotmail.com (Id0x) wrote in message news:<5da8e4b3.0307191800.48dc0a6d at posting.google.com>...

> There are 300
> None minutes in 5 hours <--- Problem occurs here
> 
> [\|End Running of Program|/]
> 
> Now the problem is... where does the "None" come from? And why is it
> there? Here is the code. Please email me if you can. Your help is
> appreciated.

The "None" comes from:

> def newLine():
>   print

What you meant was:
def newLine():
    print "\r"
(I must admit that I am not familiar with line endings on windoze, in
linux it is "\n", on windoze it might be "\r" or "\r\n", I don't know
for sure, however you don't need this function at all)

You might try something like:

print "There are " + str(minHour(x_hours)) + " minutes in " +
str(x_hours) + " hours"

Michael



From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Jul  8 16:15:01 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 16:15:01 -0400
Subject: id = -1 in wxpython
References: <mailman.1057693752.21521.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3F0B2645.E069A087@engcorp.com>

Luiz Siqueira Neto wrote:
> 
> id -1 for some object mean that this object have a default id, but how I
> can work with this kind of id?

Not "default", I think, but "auto-assigned".  So use GetId() as Cliff
said...



From irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl  Thu Jul 24 10:32:21 2003
From: irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 16:32:21 +0200
Subject: i've been close to python's cradle :)
In-Reply-To: <3f1fdf40$0$8301$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net>
References: <3f1fdf40$0$8301$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net>
Message-ID: <3f1fedf5$0$49108$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

Guyon Mor?e wrote:
> recently i've visited SARAH, the academic supercomputer in Amsterdam,
> Holland.

You meen SARA: "Stichting Academisch Rekencentrum Amsterdam".
They have multiple academic (super)computers, there is no "the"
supercomputer...

http://www.sara.nl/products/products_eng.html

--Irmen




From isaac at blueapples.org  Thu Jul 24 15:36:28 2003
From: isaac at blueapples.org (Isaac Raway)
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 14:36:28 -0500
Subject: SSH and Windows
Message-ID: <3F20353C.1090004@blueapples.org>

Hello. I'm writing a Python program that connects to servers through 
telnetlib to execute a few commands. I've discovered that some of the 
servers that I have to connect to with this program run only SSH, so I 
need to add support for SSH to the program. I'm looking for a library 
that behaves similarly to telnetlib for SSH connections. Does anyone 
know of one? I was going to try using pexpect to control the Windows 
telnet command, but pexpect only works on Unix.

Any help is appreciated.







From roy at panix.com  Sun Jul 13 10:30:05 2003
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 10:30:05 -0400
Subject: anything like C++ references?
References: <000301c348c7$3c501980$21795418@dell1700> <mailman.1058050638.14404.python-list@python.org> <jf22hvotj4n0q5tpkg627e3jv61norf93n@4ax.com> <3F11106A.65FDA8F2@alcyone.com> <iqm2hvs77lhe1m71v9b579070khbf0uv0a@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <roy-BFB23D.10300513072003@reader1.panix.com>

Stephen Horne <intentionally at blank.co.uk> wrote:
> One of the few things I hate about Python is that mutable objects are
> implicitly shared using a reference system whereas immutable objects
> are not. It is unnecessarily confusing and error prone.

There's a bit of confusion in the above regarding mutability vs. call by 
reference (they're orthogonal ideas), but I think I know what you were 
trying to say.

In ancient versions of Fortran, even constants (i.e. immutables) were 
pass by reference.  You could write something like this (forgive me if 
I've forgotten some of the syntax details):

      subroutine x (i)
      i = 42
      end

      subroutine main
      x (5)
      write (6, 100) 5
100   format (1i6)
      end

and it would print 42.  There was a single instance of the constant 5 
for main, and it was passed by reference to x(), which in turn changed 
its value to 42.  I don't remember if Fortan 66 did this, or if that 
only happened in even older versions.  Talk about confusing and error 
prone!

The Python version of that would be:

def mutateString (s):
    s = "some other string"

s ("foo")
print "foo"

If strings were pass by reference, the above would print "some other 
string".  Unless, of course, you got away from the idea that multiple 
instances of a string constant with the same value are really the same 
object, in which case:

x = "foo"
x is "foo"

would print 0 instead of 1 like it does now.



From imbosol at aerojockey.com  Thu Jul 31 19:17:47 2003
From: imbosol at aerojockey.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 23:17:47 GMT
Subject: handle <BR> tags
References: <mailman.1059657185.26996.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <vshWa.87$mZ6.32@nwrdny02.gnilink.net>

Luca Calderano wrote:
> Hi guys...
> 
> I've done a subclass of SGMLParser 
> to handle the contents of a web page,
> but i'm not able to handle the <BR> tag
> 
> can someone help me???


I'm very familiar with sgmllib.  Can you describe the problem you're
having?

If you are using <br> as a self-closing tag as is done in XHTML (i.e.,
<br/>), then this cannot be done with sgmllib.  You should use
HTMLParser instead--only you might have to make some minor changes to
your code.


-- 
CARL BANKS



From alanmk at hotmail.com  Sat Jul 12 11:04:53 2003
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 16:04:53 +0100
Subject: socket problem
References: <mailman.1057964837.26210.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3F102395.8C3E3395@hotmail.com>

Gordon Wetzstein wrote:

> I have a problem with python sockets.
> I broadcast a lot of pickled objects with socket. sendto(...), that
> works.
> Ireceive them on the other site with socket.recvfrom(16384)
> The pickled objects are smaller (like 10000 bytes) than the max bytes.
> 
> The problem appears if I send too many pickled objects very quickly one
> after another,
> then I only receive a part of the sent objects.

As Jp Calderone pointed out, UDP is an unreliable protocol. Therefore,
it *will* drop packets occasionally. Worse, it doesn't guarantee
ordering of delivery of packets, meaning that your pickles could
arrive all jumbled up and unusable.

You have three main choices to get around this problem.

1. Use TCP, which guarantees delivery to the destination address once
and only once, guarantees that packets will be received in the order
in which they were sent. However, you can't broadcast with TCP: it's a
point to point protocol.

2. Implement your own guaranteed delivery protocol over UDP. This is
usually done by assigning packets a sequence number as they are
transmitted from the publisher. All consumers then keep track of the
sequence numbers they receive, and re-request any packets they missed.
Implementing your own such protocol can get quite tricky, depending on
how complex your requirements.

3. Use a pre-made, highly efficient python library which is custom
designed for the job: spread. Spread is designed to solve all of the
problems of reliable broadcasting over UDP, and gives you a wide range
of options for how to balance efficiency versus reliability. And more
importantly, it's  industrial-strength robust, stable and platform
independent. Also, it's configurable to work with a wide range of
network topologies. More info from

http://www.python.org/other/spread/

If I were you, I'd seriously consider spending an hour getting up and
running with Spread: could be the most productive hour you'll spend in
this area.

HTH,

-- 
alan kennedy
-----------------------------------------------------
check http headers here: http://xhaus.com/headers
email alan:              http://xhaus.com/mailto/alan



From bdelmee at advalvas.REMOVEME.be  Fri Jul  4 07:20:30 2003
From: bdelmee at advalvas.REMOVEME.be (Bernard Delmée)
Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 13:20:30 +0200
Subject: Python Code Snippets
References: <be1hs0$111s$1@biggoron.nerim.net>        <3f044c20$0$8303$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net>        <be23h6$1mfd$1@biggoron.nerim.net> <mailman.1057268409.20355.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3f05631f$0$6529$afc38c87@sisyphus.news.be.easynet.net>

>     Aur?lien> I wish it had a better ordering than just a list, but
>     it's Aur?lien> full of good stuff.
>
> You can always buy the book.  It has both an index and a table of
> contents.

IMO not ideally suited to learning the language, but an
invaluable compendium of idioms and advanced topics

Sample chapter available at
http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/pythoncook/

Other multi-language code samples repositories I know of:
http://sourceforge.net/snippet/
and
http://pleac.sourceforge.net/

CHeers,

Bernard.






From tsurusennin at softhome.net  Tue Jul 15 22:31:25 2003
From: tsurusennin at softhome.net (Tetsuo)
Date: 15 Jul 2003 19:31:25 -0700
Subject: Foreign characters
Message-ID: <f42f0868.0307151831.7e8944b0@posting.google.com>

How do I get Python to work with foreign characters? When I try to
print them, I get a unicode error (characters not ASCII). Wasn't
unicode invented for the express purpose of working with non-ASCII
characters?



From mal at lemburg.com  Tue Jul  1 12:37:55 2003
From: mal at lemburg.com (M.-A. Lemburg)
Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 18:37:55 +0200
Subject: eGenix mxODBC Zope DA for FreeBSD
Message-ID: <3F01B8E3.2040203@lemburg.com>

_______________________________________________________________________
ANNOUNCEMENT

                              EGENIX.COM
                      mxODBC Zope Database Adapter
                            Version 1.0.6

                        Beta 1 for FreeBSD 4.8

_______________________________________________________________________
INTRODUCTION

The eGenix mxODBC Zope Database Adapter (Zope DA) allows you to easily
connect your Zope installation to just about any database backend on
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supported eGenix.com product mxODBC and the flexibility of the ODBC
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One Interface on all Platforms...

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XP/NT/2000/98/95, Linux, Solaris and now FreeBSD using the same
interface on all platforms

High Performance...

The mxODBC Zope DA implements thread-safe connection pooling and
multiple physical connects per logical Zope connection. You can safely
run Z SQL Methods in parallel, achieving a much better performance
than ZODBC Zope DA or similar Zope database adapters under heavy load.

This makes it ideal for deployment in Zope Clusters and Zope hosting
environments where stability and high performance are a top priority.

_______________________________________________________________________
BETA TESTING

Please report any bugs you find to support at egenix.com. Evaluation
licenses can be had from licenses at egenix.com.

_______________________________________________________________________
MORE INFORMATION

For more information on the mxODBC Zope DA, licensing and download
instructions, please visit our web-site:

     http://www.egenix.com/

You can buy mxODBC Zope DA licenses online from the eGenix.com shop at:

     http://shop.egenix.com/

_______________________________________________________________________

Thank you,
-- 
Marc-Andre Lemburg
eGenix.com

Professional Python Software directly from the Source  (#1, Jul 01 2003)
 >>> Python/Zope Products & Consulting ...         http://www.egenix.com/
 >>> mxODBC, mxDateTime, mxTextTools ...        http://python.egenix.com/
________________________________________________________________________
2003-07-01: Released mxODBC Zope DA for FreeBSD             1.0.6 beta 1





From see at my.signature.com  Wed Jul  2 17:36:03 2003
From: see at my.signature.com (Andrei)
Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 21:36:03 +0000
Subject: Tkinter + Python 2.3b2 on WinXP
Message-ID: <3068875.1057181763@dbforums.com>

I've installed Python 2.3b2 on Windows XP (in
"e:\programming\Python2.3"). I also have an older ActivePython 2.2.2
distro on my C-drive and Ruby which apparently installs tcl as well. Now
I'm trying to run Idle and get this little beauty (similar for other
Tkinter apps):

=====

E:\Programming\Python2.3\Lib\idlelib>idle.py
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "E:\Programming\Python2.3\Lib\idlelib\idle.py", line 23, in ?
    idlelib.PyShell.main()
  File "E:\Programming\Python2.3\lib\idlelib\PyShell.py", line
  1253, in main
    root = Tk(className="Idle")
  File "E:\Programming\Python2.3\lib\lib-tk\Tkinter.py", line 1562,
  in __init__
    self.tk = _tkinter.create(screenName, baseName, className)
_tkinter.TclError: Can't find a usable init.tcl in the following
directories:
    {e:\programming\ruby\tcl\lib\tcl8.3;E:\Programming\Python2.3\tcl\t-
    k8.4} {e:\
programming\ruby\tcl\lib\tcl8.3;E:\Programming\Python2.3\tcl\tk8.4}
{e:/programm
ing/ruby/tcl/lib/tcl8.3;E:Programming/Python2.3/tcl/tcl8.4}
E:/PROGRA~1/Python2.
3/lib/tcl8.4 E:/PROGRA~1/lib/tcl8.4 E:/lib/tcl8.4 E:/PROGRA~1/library
      E:/library
 E:/../tcl8.4.3/library

This probably means that Tcl wasn't installed properly.

=====

init.tcl is present in "E:\Programming\Python2.3\tcl\tcl8.4", which is
also listed in the mumbo jumbo above. Idlefork worked OK on ActivePython
before I installed 2.3b2.

What should I do to make Tkinter work again?

Andrei

--
Contact info (decode with rot13): cebwrpg5 at bcrenznvy.pbz
Fcnzserr! Cyrnfr qb abg hfr va choyvp zrffntrf. V ernq gur yvfg, ab arrq gb PP.


Posted via http://dbforums.com



From jflanigan at netzero.net  Fri Jul  4 11:25:32 2003
From: jflanigan at netzero.net (jose flanigan)
Date: 4 Jul 2003 08:25:32 -0700
Subject: Problems getting Tkinter to work while installing python as non-root
Message-ID: <c6f263dc.0307040725.c3dbc26@posting.google.com>

I don't have root access, but managed to install Tcl/Tk in my local
directory. I've also managed to install python 2.2 in my local
directory. The problem is that for some reason Tkinter isn't working.
I've looked through the various messages in the python installation
and it seems like part of the installation is trying to write
something to a directory that I don't have write-permission to I think
this might be causing the problem.

Is there a way around this? I need to set up a purely non-root
installation.

Thanks in advance.



From amk at amk.ca  Wed Jul  9 10:43:13 2003
From: amk at amk.ca (A.M. Kuchling)
Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 09:43:13 -0500
Subject: Newbie - No module named stdwin
References: <beh8d4$gnu$1@topaz.icpnet.pl>
Message-ID: <cEmdnTR7Cpmct5GiRTvUqg@speakeasy.net>

On Wed, 9 Jul 2003 16:20:47 +0200, 
> When i wanna open a window (like windows) i write
> 
> inport stdwin
> stdwin.open ('my window')

Stdwin is very old and very dead; what document are you reading that
suggests using it?  Most GUI development in Python is done using Tkinter,
though there's also wxWindows, PyQt, and Gtk+ interfaces available. If you
downloaded a binary Windows installer from somewhere, it probably
includes Tkinter; the other interfaces would be add-on packages.

--amk



From bitbucket at electron.me.uk  Fri Jul  4 19:15:01 2003
From: bitbucket at electron.me.uk (Geoffrey Clements)
Date: Sat, 05 Jul 2003 00:15:01 +0100
Subject: Eric3 segfaulting
References: <3f060811$0$56603$bed64819@pubnews.gradwell.net> <3f06093a$0$56603$bed64819@pubnews.gradwell.net>
Message-ID: <3f060a73$0$56603$bed64819@pubnews.gradwell.net>

Geoffrey Clements wrote:

> Some more info:
> If I make line 75 a blank line by putting a return in it stills fails on
> that line!
> 

oooppss that wasn't right - sorry
-- 
Geoff                                           Registered Linux user 196308
Replace bitbucket with geoff to mail me.



From mcherm at mcherm.com  Tue Jul 15 08:02:43 2003
From: mcherm at mcherm.com (Michael Chermside)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 05:02:43 -0700
Subject: Python Mystery Theatre -- Episode 1: Exceptions
Message-ID: <1058270563.3f13ed639c441@mcherm.com>

First of all, Raymond THANK YOU. This is lots of fun, and educational too.
In fact, I'm nominating it for my favorite c.l.py posting so far this
year!

So... here's how I did.        [** SPOILERS BELOW **]

ACT I:
  This one stumped me the longest... I stared and stared and just
  couldn't figure it out. But when I came back the next morning
  it was obvious.

  "except foo, bar" catches things of type foo, and binds bar
  to the object caught. To catch multiple types you stick them
  in a tuple. (This beats out Java where there's no way I know
  of to catch multiple types.) Design wise, I think the syntax 
  is a little odd, but not worth changing.

ACT II:
  Easy... when you write "raise foo, bar" Python executes foo(bar)
  and then raises that object. So of course the object, when you
  catch it, is an instance.

ACT III:
  It took me a while to figure out what you were EXPECTING here,
  I guess a more complete sumary would be that "raise foo, bar"
  raises the object "foo(bar)", while "raise foo" either raises
  the object "foo" or the object "foo()". The rules for which to
  do are simply that if foo is of type "type" (ie, it's an old-style
  class) then it raises "foo()", otherwise "foo". In my opinion,
  this is an unnecessary bit of DWIM (DoWhatIMean), and things
  would be much cleaner if you just always said "raise foo" and
  it raised the object "foo" -- at worst you'd need an extra set
  of parenthesees -- but we recently discussed this in PEP-317 and
  in the end, Guido (and others) succeeded in convincing me (and 
  others) that it's not worth changing, and he mapped out a plan
  for how to make the DWIM decision (to raise "foo" or "foo()")
  after the change to new-style classes. I do, however, consider
  if a minor wart.

  Anyhow, it's thanks to the PEP-317 discussions that I understood
  this one.

  http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-June/036162.html

ACT IV:
  I was EXPECTING this one, since it's an exceptions "gotcha" that
  I already know about. Exception catching is done by object identity,
  not equality. Normally, you catch with the CLASS of the instance
  that got raised, so that's OK, but if you raise string exceptions
  then it's got to be the same object, not just an equivalent
  string.

  Solution? Don't raise strings.

ACT V:
  Puzzled me for a couple of minutes, but then I realized that
  LookupError is an ancestor class of KeyError. That design is
  a GOOD thing... if your exceptions are in a meaningful hierarchy
  then you can catch whole sections of the hierarchy without having
  to name each and every exception individually.

So there we have it... it took me one overnight of cogitation, but
I got them all without even cracking a reference book (although I
admit I had to fire up the interpreter to double-check how to catch
multiple exception types together).


For those who are just hungering for more, here's another (not quite
so good as Raymond's, but might confuse someone):

>>> try:
...    raise IndexError
... except IndexError, errObject:
...    print errObject
...

>>>

-- Michael Chermside





From alan.gauld at btinternet.com  Thu Jul 10 17:12:45 2003
From: alan.gauld at btinternet.com (Alan Gauld)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 21:12:45 GMT
Subject: QUESTION
References: <4e.1efa9c3f.2c3d7c25@aol.com> <mailman.1057791735.13950.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3f0dd614.268472713@news.blueyonder.co.uk>

On Thu, 10 Jul 2003 00:01:02 +0100, Andy Jewell
<andy at wild-flower.co.uk> wrote:

> >I have a Compaq 5184 with OEM Win 98 installed...I do not
> > ever recall seeing "python" in the programs.=20

This could be key since I seem to recall Digital (or was it HP?)
using Python in some of their system configuration applications.
Since Compaq swallowed Digital maybe your PC is of the right
vintage to have those applications installed... If you do rename
the directory don't forget to try the Compaq system tweaking
utilities before deleting it!

Alan G.

Alan g.
http://www.freenetpages.co.uk/hp/alan.gauld/



From mcfletch at rogers.com  Fri Jul 18 18:00:40 2003
From: mcfletch at rogers.com (Mike C. Fletcher)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 18:00:40 -0400
Subject: properties + types, implementing meta-class desciptors	elegantly?
In-Reply-To: <1058564534.28066.28.camel@lothlorien>
References: <3F17ECAC.30104@rogers.com> <1058564534.28066.28.camel@lothlorien>
Message-ID: <3F186E08.2030507@rogers.com>

Ian Bicking wrote:

...

>>which would seem to suggest that the only way to use the regular 
>>descriptors would be to do the (annoying) '_'+name thing so that there's 
>>a proliferation of names in the class (which I *really* don't want).  
>>So, does anyone have a pattern which allows setting an attribute on a 
>>class which doesn't go through the setattr machinery (i.e. can be used 
>>within a descriptor)? 
>>    
>>
>
>Maybe you could create just new attribute.  Call it _shadow, perhaps. 
>Then the setter does setattr(client._shadow, name, value).  The shadow
>could be a plain class like:
>
>class Shadow(object): pass
>
I'm doing the rough equivalent with a dictionary, was really looking for 
something more elegant, in particular, something that would make use of 
the already-existing class' dictionary, rather than creating a new one.
...

>May or may not be more elegant, but you can decide for yourself.
>  
>
Basically the same, still want more elegance :) ,
Mike

_______________________________________
  Mike C. Fletcher
  Designer, VR Plumber, Coder
  http://members.rogers.com/mcfletch/







From bens at replytothegroupplease.com  Wed Jul 30 22:35:06 2003
From: bens at replytothegroupplease.com (Ben S)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 03:35:06 +0100
Subject: time, calendar, datetime, etc
References: <153fa67.0307300326.45a29380@posting.google.com> <mailman.1059593025.652.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bg9utn$59g$1@news7.svr.pol.co.uk>

Skip Montanaro wrote:
>     kylotan> Is there any chance of these modules becoming somewhat
>     combined kylotan> in the future?
>
> Maybe.  Perhaps you would like to write a PEP?

I would think that is best left up to those who know what they're
doing... I'm just a newbie who's found date and time handling in Python
to be confusing, and thought I'd mention it. (And I am the original
poster, btw.)  If nobody else agrees, maybe it's not really a problem.

>     kylotan> Right now it seems a little awkward to find the function
>     you kylotan> want. The main culprit is 'timegm' which is the only
>     thing I kylotan> need from the calendar module but which should
>     probably be in kylotan> the time module.
>
> I've never used it, but it looks like you're right.  It's the GMT/UTC
> equivalent of time.mktime(), right?

Possibly... I am not intimately familiar with all the different
functions. It would help if there was some sort of table in the docs
that laid the various time functions side by side for an easy
comparison.

>     kylotan> PS. I use 'time.strptime(myTime, '%a %b %d %H:%M:%S
>     %Y')' as a kylotan> reverse-asctime(), and was surprised that I
>     couldn't find this kylotan> wrapped in a function in any of the
>     modules. Maybe such a kylotan> function would be considered for
> future addition?
>
> Seems simple enough to not be needed.  What makes asctime() all that
> special?

Well, one could say that its very existence makes it special.
Technically asctime() is redundant as you can achieve the same effect
with time.strftime(). Yet it's in the library. Since time.asctime()
exists as a special case, we're assuming that the use of that particular
string format has some intrinsic merit. In particular, a lot of programs
written in C may use it for logfiles. Therefore it makes sense (to me)
to implement the inverse ("timeasc"?).

--
Ben Sizer
http://pages.eidosnet.co.uk/kylotan







From http  Thu Jul 10 13:07:18 2003
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 10 Jul 2003 10:07:18 -0700
Subject: Python vs PHP
References: <mailman.1057574470.1750.python-list@python.org> <kmolgv4mp12o71ocion7ra0m2s9fcrqjdk@4ax.com> <3F0D2827.4070501@mxm.dk>
Message-ID: <7xisqagvjt.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Max M <maxm at mxm.dk> writes:
> Ahem ... How os Python web development fragmented? Most of it probably
> takes place in the Zope world.

Nonsense, look at all the Python web platforms there are that don't use Zope.

> But mod_python is an official Apache module. Wich sets it about on par
> with PHP.

Nonsense, it's not on a par with PHP.  It doesn't include any template
system, any sessions, etc.


> It has a standard library that beats the socks of PHP's builtin functions.

Nonsense, it doesn't include any SQL database interfaces and you're
left on your own to find one, install it, and get it working.

> On top on this there are severeal modules for templating etc. PHP does
> not have these modules, so everybody has to do it in PHP's own faulty
> way.

Nonsense, you're trying to spin a deficiency as an advantage.  PHP is
its own template system, for better or worse.  Python doesn't include
any template system and you're left on your own to find or write one,
install it, and get it working.

> Python is not fragmented, but there are more high level modules for
> doing things.

Nonsense, of course Python (for web development) is fragemented, look
at all these different Python web modules we've been discussing.
Python does have a lot of modules (like Numeric) that PHP doesn't, but
they're not that useful for web programming.  PHP is narrowly focused
on web programming and is far superior to Python for that purpose
unless you spend a lot of time enhancing Python with add-ons before
you even start writing your applications.

> There are more PHP developers, that's right, but they are all starting
> from scratch, with a poor language. So it's their loss.

Nonsense, Python is a better language than PHP, but that's the only
advantage Python has for web development.  The language is a small
part of the overall system.  And it's Python developers who must start
from scratch, not PHP developers.  Python could catch up by adding
more stuff to the standard library, but it hasn't done that yet and
most of the suitable Python modules for PHP-like usage aren't really
ready for prime time.



From st.brodowski at eucrea.com  Wed Jul  9 10:22:04 2003
From: st.brodowski at eucrea.com (Steffen Brodowski)
Date: 9 Jul 2003 07:22:04 -0700
Subject: Image Streaming
References: <381a2b17.0307072326.211c21b5@posting.google.com> <mailman.1057652599.22950.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <381a2b17.0307090622.2e22a716@posting.google.com>

Hi Ian,


> > 
> > import Image, ImageDraw
> > def CreateBarcode(SourceString,Linewidth,WriteText):
> >     blablabla
> >     ...
> >     NewImage = Image.new("L",NewSize,Backcolor)
> >     ImgDraw = ImageDraw.Draw(NewImage)
> >     ....
> > 
> >     #How to put the image into an stream?
> 
> have that function return the image object.  Then, assuming you are
> doing this in CGI (easily adapted if not), do something like (untested):
> 
> import sys
> image = CreateBarCode(...)
> print 'Content-type: image/jpeg\n'
> image.save(sys.stdout, 'JPEG')


I think its more difficult.

The function CreateBarcode has to return the image directly.
Additional you have to know, that I have to implement it into Zope. So
I use the script as an "external method".  Modulname=Barcode,
functionname=CreateBarcode.

I'm using the following line in Zope DTML
<dtml-var "barcode(SourceString='123456789',Linewidth=1,WriteText=0)">
or 
<img src="<dtml-var "barcode128(SourceString='123456789',Linewidth=1,WriteText=0)">">

to generate the barcode and for showing it on a html-site.

But is doesn't run.

Do you have any ideas?

Greetings

Steffen Brodowski



From bignose-hates-spam at and-benfinney-does-too.id.au  Wed Jul 30 22:25:20 2003
From: bignose-hates-spam at and-benfinney-does-too.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: 31 Jul 2003 12:15:20 +0950
Subject: RELEASED Python 2.3 (final)
References: <mailman.1059523523.23534.python-list@python.org> <3f27bacd$0$49113$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl> <c76ff6fc.0307301323.62f3ccd6@posting.google.com> <bg9hgu$k31$1@panix2.panix.com> <38ec68a6.0307301828.7310e01b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <slrnbih0m0.vpm.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>

On 30 Jul 2003 19:28:57 -0700, Asun Friere wrote:
> I believe it is customary to use the construction 'great kudos,'
> which, in any case, you all deserve.

Or 'totally mega kudos, d00dZ' depending which decade you're living in.

-- 
 \     "He may look like an idiot and talk like an idiot but don't let |
  `\           that fool you. He really is an idiot."  -- Groucho Marx |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney <http://bignose.squidly.org/>



From csad7 at yahoo.com  Tue Jul 22 13:34:52 2003
From: csad7 at yahoo.com (christof hoeke)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 19:34:52 +0200
Subject: python startup on XP very slow
Message-ID: <bfjsjv$32i$00$1@news.t-online.com>

hi,
for some days now i have problems with python taking a lot of time to start
up or run programs. today i installed the python 2.3rc1 but still the same
problem.

e.g. starting pythonwin 1.53 on winXP (athlon 1200 with 512MB) which
normally took only a few seconds now takes at least 15-20 seconds.

has anybody had a similar problem or knows where the delay comes from?

any help would be great
thanks
chris





From news at yebu.de  Fri Jul 18 08:28:05 2003
From: news at yebu.de (Karl Scalet)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 14:28:05 +0200
Subject: "\n" in ASCII-file
In-Reply-To: <bf8j40$bj4e4$1@ID-108519.news.uni-berlin.de>
References: <bf8j40$bj4e4$1@ID-108519.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <bf8p4l$ci8ua$1@ID-141451.news.uni-berlin.de>

Martin P schrieb:
> Hello,
> 
> for a short exercise-program I have to read the lines in an ASCII-file.
> 
> But every line has a new-line-feed ("\n") at the end of the line. (The
> ASCII-file was made with Windows Notepad).
> Is this only because I used Windows (and Notepad)?
> 
> And... is there any special method to read lines from a file without "\n"?
> 
> Bye,
> Martin
> 
> 

beside the issue about large or not-so-large files, there
is another difference between Gerhard's line.rstrip() and
my splitlines() method:
entire_file.splitlines() preserves trailing whitespace characters
while line.rstrip() doesn't. Just for the rare case it matters :-)

Karl




From belred1 at yahoo.com  Thu Jul 24 01:20:15 2003
From: belred1 at yahoo.com (Bryan)
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 05:20:15 GMT
Subject: file.close()
References: <edITa.131868$Ph3.17333@sccrnsc04> <3F1F5297.15D768EF@alcyone.com> <slrnbhukr8.13c.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local> <p5JTa.32154$7O.2024@nwrdny01.gnilink.net>
Message-ID: <j0KTa.133645$H17.46459@sccrnsc02>

>
> If you need 50 open files, you almost certainly want to have a way of
> organizing them.  Probably they'll be in a list or dictionary.  So, if
> they're in a list, for example, you can do this:
>
>
>     filelist = []
>     try:
>         filelist.append(open(filename[0]))
>         filelist.append(open(filename[1]))
>         ...
>         do_something(filelist)
>     finally:
>         for f in filelist:
>             f.close()
>


erik, carl... thanks... this is exactly what i was looking for

bryan





From heafnerj at spam.vnet.net  Thu Jul 17 22:12:41 2003
From: heafnerj at spam.vnet.net (Joe Heafner)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 21:12:41 -0500
Subject: Mac OS X, Fink, Python, and web browser
References: <pdacncvRO_lmnomiU-KYuQ@ctc.net> <2b012c5e.0307151342.e5db114@posting.google.com> <Oq6dnaeGfdCXHImiU-KYgg@ctc.net> <7h3n0fd123r.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <CNydnVGvpPkEyoqiU-KYgw@ctc.net>

Michael Hudson <mwh at python.net> wrote:
> IIRC, webbrowser.py uses internet config on the mac, so you certainly
> should get the default browser.  I've had trouble getting with
> webrowser.py on Mac OS X before now, though, but I didn't dig.
>
I have the file webbrowser.py in two places, one with the python that 
ships with OS X and one with Fink's Python22 and they're virtually 
identical. I'm lost as to what to do.

JH




From staschuk at telusplanet.net  Mon Jul 21 20:37:01 2003
From: staschuk at telusplanet.net (Steven Taschuk)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 18:37:01 -0600
Subject: classes
In-Reply-To: <2259b0e2.0307210451.203db2ef@posting.google.com>; from mis6@pitt.edu on Mon, Jul 21, 2003 at 05:51:16AM -0700
References: <pan.2003.07.19.20.46.33.864915@bogus.domain.org> <ad052e5c.0307191826.144ad2a5@posting.google.com> <pan.2003.07.20.12.30.11.157694@bogus.domain.org> <mailman.1058723911.12956.python-list@python.org> <2259b0e2.0307210451.203db2ef@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20030721183701.C188@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>

Quoth Michele Simionato:
> Steven Taschuk <staschuk at telusplanet.net> wrote in message news:<mailman.1058723911.12956.python-list at python.org>...
  [...]
> >     _the_instance = None
> >     class MySingleton(object):
> >         def __new__(self):
> >             global _the_instance
> >             if _the_instance is None:
> >                 _the_instance = object.__new__(self)
> >             return _the_instance
> 
> Why are you using a global here and not [a class attribute]

The memory of that thread a little while back about using __del__
with singletons.  If the instance is referenced by a class
attribute, the cyclic reference prevents the __del__ from being
used.  If the cycle goes through a module attribute, though, the
zapping of module dicts during shutdown breaks the cycle and lets
the __del__ run.  (Whether all this is true depends on the version
of Python, I think, but I don't know the details.)

This might be relevant to the OP, whose example was a singleton
representing the single database connection used by an entire
application -- in such a case, __del__ would be a natural place to
make sure the connection is closed properly.

I should have explained this bit of trickery.  :(

  [...]
> > Second approach: Use a metaclass.  See
> >     <http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/102187>
> 
> 
> Unfortunately, I see that this recipe is not very recommendable. I have
> just submitted a fix which seems to work:
  [...]

Nice!

-- 
Steven Taschuk              Aral: "Confusion to the enemy, boy."
staschuk at telusplanet.net    Mark: "Turn-about is fair play, sir."
                             -- _Mirror Dance_, Lois McMaster Bujold




From pipen at beast_tu_kielce.pl  Tue Jul 15 07:05:19 2003
From: pipen at beast_tu_kielce.pl (Artur M. Piwko)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 11:05:19 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: wxPython - question
References: <slrnbgre73.fld.pipen@beast.tu.kielce.pl> <3cp1hvgjkfeih2k3f0mo0he7mn4lmt7u7q@4ax.com> <slrnbh339p.dkj.pipen@beast.tu.kielce.pl> <4737hvob87b2699fvqkhl61i9ufqm1jnc4@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <slrnbh7o1r.gnl.pipen@beast.tu.kielce.pl>

In the darkest hour on Mon, 14 Jul 2003 22:13:20 -0700,
Tim Roberts <timr at probo.com> screamed:
>>I am writing Jabber/others messenger. In this case, tray icon is not a sign of
>>guruness, but user friendliness.
> 
> I disagree.  That is strictly a matter of opinion.
> 
> Now, a tray icon that does not exist until some actionable event occurs is
> probably a very natural UI, but the same thing could be achieved by
> plopping up a dialog box.  Even if I am running your messenger, yours is
> not the only application I'm running by a long shot.
>

And all this is the matter of user configuration.

Artur

-- 
Before the Goat of Mendes... we all must take our turn   |  Artur M. Piwko
Into the magic circle... where still the fire burns      |  mailto:s/_/./
We're spinning round and round... until one takes a fall | -- Mercyful Fate
The fallen one will not return, the fallen one must burn | "Witches' Dance"



From MK at foo.com  Tue Jul  1 08:23:36 2003
From: MK at foo.com (MK)
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 14:23:36 +0200
Subject: PyQT and Mandrake 9.1
References: <bdrsbq$2a8d$1@biggoron.nerim.net>
Message-ID: <bdrug5$vdeid$1@ID-174077.news.dfncis.de>

"Gilles Lenfant" <glenfant at NOSPAM.bigfoot.com> wrote

> I've been very excited by PyQT evangelists.

Be careful. QT is controlled by one company,
and it costs money. YMMV, however.





From nirina at mail.blueline.mg  Mon Jul 21 00:43:40 2003
From: nirina at mail.blueline.mg (Raseliarison nirinA)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 07:43:40 +0300
Subject: If stereo WAV file's both channels are identical, change format to mono for all files recursively
References: <mailman.1058605289.13944.python-list@python.org> <9a410299.0307191620.7fe274ab@posting.google.com> <3F1A0B51.F69B258A@mega-nerd.com>
Message-ID: <007101c34f43$692f0c40$f3a2383e@raseliar>

"Erik de Castro Lopo" wrote:
> klappnase wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > I think there might be at least 24 bit wav-files, if you have a
> > soundcard that supports 24 bit, may be even more, for professional
use
> > or so.
>
> Yep, both 24 bit PCM and 32 bit floating point encoded files
> are un common use in professional and semi-pro audio recording.
>
> Erik

"Erik de Castro Lopo" wrote:
> Yes, dozens.
>
> As well as 8 and 16 bit integer PCM files, there are also 24
> and 32 bit integer PCM, 32 and 64 bit floating point PCM,
> A-law, u-law, at least 6 different forms of ADPCM (adaptive
> differential PCM), GSM6.10, MP3 and many, many more.
>
> Fortunately other than the ones listed above, all the others
> are pretty rare.

i found in my win98box a stereo wave file encoded in ADPCM 4 bits. of
course, an unknown format for wave module.
among all those file formats, i'm wondering which are supported by wave
module or can be manipulated with chunck module. maybe a silly question
but i'm neither a professional nor a semi-pro one.

--
nirinA





From mike at nospam.com  Wed Jul 30 20:30:13 2003
From: mike at nospam.com (Mike Rovner)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 17:30:13 -0700
Subject: Dict to "flat" list of (key,value)
References: <pan.2003.07.30.19.26.18.41642@removethis.nerim.net> <bg9mav$bu7$1@main.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <bg9nua$gq6$1@main.gmane.org>

Mike Rovner wrote:
> Nicolas Girard wrote:
>> Forgive me if the answer is trivial, but could you tell me how to
>> achieve the following:
>>
>> {k1:[v1,v2],k2:v3,...} --> [[k1,v1],[k1,v2],[k2,v3],...]
>
> [list(i) for i in d.items()]

Sorry, I missed v1,v2 flattening.







From me at privacy.net  Wed Jul 30 08:34:41 2003
From: me at privacy.net (Heather Coppersmith)
Date: 30 Jul 2003 08:34:41 -0400
Subject: Is there a standard module library function to access /etc/passwd or /etc/group
References: <16469f07.0307300416.351ba776@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <m2vftkw5um.fsf@host200-null.null.bellsouth.net>

On 30 Jul 2003 05:16:43 -0700,
robin.cull at pace.co.uk (Robin Cull) wrote:

> ...  Something that gives access to the C standard libarary
> functions get[pw|group]ent(), for example ...

Right out of the table of contents of Python's Library Reference:

    8.2 pwd -- The password database
    8.3 grp -- The group database

When all else fails, read the manual....  ;-)

Regards,
Heather

-- 
Heather Coppersmith
That's not right; that's not even wrong. -- Wolfgang Pauli




From staschuk at telusplanet.net  Tue Jul  1 15:47:57 2003
From: staschuk at telusplanet.net (Steven Taschuk)
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 13:47:57 -0600
Subject: Question regarding naming convention
In-Reply-To: <1057062415.13616.0@doris.uk.clara.net>; from spam.trap@btinternet.com on Tue, Jul 01, 2003 at 01:28:02PM +0100
References: <1056988215.49928.0@iris.uk.clara.net> <m1_La.1613$eF3.213194@news20.bellglobal.com> <1057062415.13616.0@doris.uk.clara.net>
Message-ID: <20030701134757.A16188@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>

Quoth michael:
  [...]
> Is there no way to write a class, such that the statement:
> 
>      import MyClass
> 
> would dynamically import the MyClass class from MyClass.py ?

Not recommended, but:

    # MyClass.py
    import sys
    class MyClass(object):
        pass
    sys.modules['MyClass'] = MyClass

This is a dangerous hack; I'm sure there's lots of code which
expects sys.modules to contain only modules.

Better, if you really want this kind of behaviour, is to write a
custom __import__ function.  See
    <http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/built-in-funcs.html>

> It just surprises me that there isn't a neater way around this, as 
> Python seems to encapsulate most everything else in a simple way.

It's fairly rare for a module to contain only one entity of
interest to importers.  (StringIO is unusual in this respect.)

Since you're coming from a Java background, you might try thinking
of modules as analogous to leaf-level Java packages.  For example,
where Java has
    java/
        util/
            LinkedList.java
            AbstractList.java
            # etc.
Python would have
    java/
        __init__.py  # to make java a package; probably just has docstring
        util.py  # contains classes LinkedList, AbstractList, etc.

-- 
Steven Taschuk                            staschuk at telusplanet.net
"Our analysis begins with two outrageous benchmarks."
  -- "Implementation strategies for continuations", Clinger et al.




From heikowu at ceosg.de  Tue Jul 15 21:03:40 2003
From: heikowu at ceosg.de (Heiko Wundram)
Date: 16 Jul 2003 03:03:40 +0200
Subject: UDP client-server problem
In-Reply-To: <538fc8e.0307151318.12551933@posting.google.com>
References: <538fc8e.0307151318.12551933@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1058317420.619.85.camel@d168.stw.stud.uni-saarland.de>

This should work:

Server
======

import socket
import time

# Constants.
PORT = 37

# Create and bind the socket which listens for packets.
srvsocket = socket.socket(socket.AF_INET,socket.SOCK_DGRAM)
svrsocket.bind(('',PORT))

while 1:
	# Block waiting for packet.
	data, address = svrsocket.recvfrom(256)
	print "Client sent:", data
	print "Client at:", address
	# Got a packet, reply to address packet came from.
	srvsocket.sendto(str(time.time()),address)

Client
======

import socket

# Constants.
PORT = 37

# Create new socket, let it bind to an OS-chosen port.
clisocket = socket.socket(socket.AF_INET,socket.SOCK_DGRAM)

while 1:
	data = raw_input("Enter what the server receives.")
	if data:
		# Send data to server, irrelevant what.
		clisocket.sendto(data,("localhost",PORT))
		# Block waiting for reply.
		data, address = clisocket.recvfrom(256)
		print "Server sent time:", data
	else:
		break

Look at the above code. There were several errors in your original
implementation, e.g. that time never got updated while the server ran,
and several other things. I also don't see the need for a Tijd class.

HTH!

Heiko.

PS: The above code is untested, if there's something wrong, my bad... :)
PPS: Read the UNIX TCP/IP Network Programming FAQ if you're into socket
programming! Google for it, I currently don't know the URL...





From ngps at netmemetic.com  Sat Jul  5 10:26:15 2003
From: ngps at netmemetic.com (Ng Pheng Siong)
Date: 5 Jul 2003 14:26:15 GMT
Subject: Apache mod_python and Sessions
References: <20030704131617.4b1a73ca.scpusenet@werbung.schabi.de> <Xns93AE9CAB7636Edaleriverhallsystems@192.168.8.150>
Message-ID: <be6n67$824$2@mawar.singnet.com.sg>

According to Dale Strickland-Clak <dale at riverhall.NOSPAM.co.uk>:
> Markus Schaber pushed the bounds of literature with:
> > Does anybody know a module that works with Apache 1.3 mod_python and
> > provides session tracking? 
> 
> This is pretty easy to do by hand using MD5 and a cookie.

Throw in a secret and get HMAC-MD5.

See AuthCookies in M2Crypto, http://www.post1.com/home/ngps/m2


-- 
Ng Pheng Siong <ngps at netmemetic.com> 

http://firewall.rulemaker.net  -+- Manage Your Firewall Rulebase Changes
http://www.post1.com/home/ngps -+- Open Source Python Crypto & SSL



From martin at v.loewis.de  Mon Jul 14 01:39:57 2003
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-15?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 14 Jul 2003 07:39:57 +0200
Subject: Qualified appology (was Re: anything like C++ references?)
References: <b8c3hvsesjoumiboobml3nsnajtha99mp1@4ax.com> <mailman.1058129901.28248.python-list@python.org> <plk3hv0s1m2egf4s34jo6vjedk0q8r2mu9@4ax.com> <m365m6ul5c.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <1br3hv4434gn7p2pdg1bgtg8dtlak3id3s@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <m3fzl9r7iq.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Stephen Horne <intentionally at blank.co.uk> writes:

> I've said my piece on meanings derived from computer science (and in
> turn from mathematics, as it happens - variables as placeholders for
> values predate electronic computers by quite some time.

And so does mine: Variables are *not* containers of values, in
traditional mathematics. They are bound to values instead.

> Even so, you can think of immutable objects as achieving 'expected'
> assignment semantics simply because they are immutable. That does not
> apply to mutable objects. So you can claim that Python behaviour is
> consistent within itself, but only by claiming that it is consistently
> different from this 'expected' behaviour.

I am firmly convinced that your understanding of assignment is in
complete contradiction with traditional computer science, and the
notion of variables from a time that predates electronic computers.

So your expectation is wrong. Assignment does not mean that something
is copied, it means that something is *bound*.

> That's not the same thing as saying they are doing 'the right thing'
> or that the computer science definitions don't exist

You haven't given proof that these definitions do exist in "computer
science", and that the definitions match your understanding. To do so,
you would have to refer to some widely-used literature where a precise
definition of "variable" and "assignment" is given. 

So far, you didn't show such proof - and anybody claiming that
literature fails to give proper definition, is inconsistent across
authors, or typically gives definitions that are different from your
understanding might be just as right as you might be.

> All variables are implemented as references, but that is not the same
> as saying that all values are references. 

That's true. Values are not references, in Python. Values are values.

> As Guidos own words reveal (I already posted the link twice) the
> purpose of using immutables tuples is performance optimisation to
> save copying while still defending against against accidental
> mutation (ie it provides the computer theory standard assignment
> semantics efficiently).
>
> The same rationale should equally apply to all types, including the
> mutable types.

What is "the same" here: That mutable values should save copying when
being assigned? This is the case. That mutable values should be
protected against accidental mutation? That would be pointless - they
are mutable on purpose.

> I shouldn't need to force copying of class instances in the
> container for the exact same reason that Guido highlights for
> tuples.

It is a good thing that you need to invoke explicit code to perform
copying of objects. For objects, in general, you have the choice of
shallow or deep copies. Either may be meaningful, depending on the
context, and the language should not guess. Also, some objects (files,
windows) don't have a meaningful copy semantics in the first place.

Assignment has nothing to do with copying.

> Having copy-on-write for all objects (obviously the actual copying
> never happening for immutables) would be both fully self-consistent
> and consistent with the computer science definitions.

I can only repeat myself here: Assignment has nothing to do with
copying.

Regards,
Martin



From justinjohnson at fastmail.fm  Wed Jul  9 08:30:05 2003
From: justinjohnson at fastmail.fm (Justin Johnson)
Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 06:30:05 -0600
Subject: process.py problems
In-Reply-To: <20030708170131.C13603@ActiveState.com>
References: <20030708153117.127C0326C0@www.fastmail.fm> <20030708094057.C9520@ActiveState.com> <20030708210829.B3BBE3886D@www.fastmail.fm> <20030708170131.C13603@ActiveState.com>
Message-ID: <20030709123005.C0B58374AF@www.fastmail.fm>

After replacing my process.py I still get an error with the dir command
(see below).

I'm getting some wierd results with normal .exe commands though. 
Commands that don't have much output come back just fine, but commands
that have more output, even if they don't take long to run necessarily,
seem to get stuck and just hang, never returning.

E:\ccase\python\uhg\uht>python
ActivePython 2.2.2 Build 224 (ActiveState Corp.) based on
Python 2.2.2 (#37, Nov 26 2002, 10:24:37) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import process
>>> p = process.ProcessOpen("dir")
process: info:ProcessOpen.__init__(cmd='dir', mode='t', cwd=None,
env=None)
process.res: info:[11054544] ProcessOpen._start(): create child stdin:
<_FileWra
pper: file:None fd:3 os_handle:<PyHANDLE object at 0x00A8ACA4>>
process.res: info:[11054544] ProcessOpen._start(): create child stdout:
<_FileWr
apper: file:None fd:4 os_handle:<PyHANDLE object at 0x00A8D6B4>>
process.res: info:[11054544] ProcessOpen._start(): create child stderr:
<_FileWr
apper: file:None fd:5 os_handle:<PyHANDLE object at 0x00A8D694>>
process: debug:_whichFirstArg: first='dir', rest=''
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
  File "process.py", line 1118, in __init__
    self._startOnWindows()
  File "process.py", line 1289, in _startOnWindows
    cmd = _fixupCommand(cmd, self._env)
  File "process.py", line 516, in _fixupCommand
    cmd = _whichFirstArg(cmd, env)
  File "process.py", line 325, in _whichFirstArg
    candidate = which.which(first)
  File "which.py", line 251, in which
    raise WhichError("Could not find '%s' on the path." % command)
which.WhichError: Could not find 'dir' on the path.
>>>

>>> p = process.ProcessOpen("cleartool lsvob -l")
process: info:ProcessOpen.__init__(cmd='cleartool lsvob -l', mode='t',
cwd=None,
 env=None)
process.res: info:[18469440] ProcessOpen._start(): create child stdin:
<_FileWra
pper: file:None fd:3 os_handle:<PyHANDLE object at 0x01198B44>>
process.res: info:[18469440] ProcessOpen._start(): create child stdout:
<_FileWr
apper: file:None fd:4 os_handle:<PyHANDLE object at 0x0119CA74>>
process.res: info:[18469440] ProcessOpen._start(): create child stderr:
<_FileWr
apper: file:None fd:5 os_handle:<PyHANDLE object at 0x0119A9E4>>
process: debug:_whichFirstArg: first='cleartool', rest='lsvob -l'
process: debug:_SaferCreateProcess(appName=None,
                    cmd='"C:\\Program
                    Files\\Rational\\ClearCase\\bin\\cleartool
.EXE" lsvob -l',
                    env=None,
                    cwd=None)
    os.getcwd(): 'E:\\ccase\\python\\uhg\\uht'

process: info:_registerprocess(process=<process.ProcessOpen instance at
0x0119D2
40>)
***** It doesn't return here *****


On Tue, 8 Jul 2003 17:01:32 -0700, "Trent Mick" <trentm at ActiveState.com>
said:
> 
> Yup, process.py is expected a which.py <1.0. Crappy. I need to put up a
> new process.py. To work around in it in your current build you need to
> changes process.py's usages of which.which() to expect a single hit
> instead of a list of a all hits. In other words, which.which() changed
> from:
>     >>> which.which("python")
>     ["C:\\Python22\\python.exe", "C:\\Python21\\python.exe", ...]
> to:
>     >>> which.which("python")
>     "C:\\Python22\\python.exe"
> 
> This is a little bit of a pain to do though. I have attached an untested
> process.py that should have this fixed. I apologize for the informalness
> of this. I'll try to get a new process.py version up on
> <starship.python.net/~tmick> when I get a chance.
> 
> Cheers,
> Trent
> 
> 
> [Justin Johnson wrote]
> > Thanks for the reply!
> > 
> > which 1.0.2
> > 
> > Here's the log output with the dir command
> > -----------------------
> > process.res: info:[18392288] ProcessOpen._start(): create child stdin:
> > <_FileWra
> > pper: file:None fd:3 os_handle:<PyHANDLE object at 0x0118C694>>
> > process.res: info:[18392288] ProcessOpen._start(): create child stdout:
> > <_FileWr
> > apper: file:None fd:4 os_handle:<PyHANDLE object at 0x0118C674>>
> > process.res: info:[18392288] ProcessOpen._start(): create child stderr:
> > <_FileWr
> > apper: file:None fd:5 os_handle:<PyHANDLE object at 0x0118C654>>
> > process.res: info:[18392288] ProcessOpen.__del__()
> > process: info:[18392288] ProcessOpen.close()
> > process: info:[18392288] ProcessOpen: closing stdin (<_FileWrapper:
> > file:None fd
> > :3 os_handle:<PyHANDLE object at 0x0118C694>>).
> > process: debug:[18400496] _FileWrapper.close()
> > process: debug:[18400496] _FileWrapper.close: close handle
> > process: debug:[18400496] _FileWrapper.close: closing handle raised
> > process: debug:[18400496] _FileWrapper.close: done closing handle
> > process: info:[18392288] ProcessOpen: closing stdout (<_FileWrapper:
> > file:None f
> > d:4 os_handle:<PyHANDLE object at 0x0118C674>>).
> > process: debug:[18400720] _FileWrapper.close()
> > process: debug:[18400720] _FileWrapper.close: close handle
> > process: debug:[18400720] _FileWrapper.close: closing handle raised
> > process: debug:[18400720] _FileWrapper.close: done closing handle
> > process: info:[18392288] ProcessOpen: closing stderr (<_FileWrapper:
> > file:None f
> > d:5 os_handle:<PyHANDLE object at 0x0118C654>>).
> > process: debug:[18403024] _FileWrapper.close()
> > process: debug:[18403024] _FileWrapper.close: close handle
> > process: debug:[18403024] _FileWrapper.close: closing handle raised
> > process: debug:[18403024] _FileWrapper.close: done closing handle
> > process: debug:[18400720] _FileWrapper.close()
> > process: debug:[18400496] _FileWrapper.close()
> > process: debug:[18403024] _FileWrapper.close()
> > ----------------
> > 
> > I also get the following results running commands that are in my path...
> > ------------------
> > g`"apper: file:None fd:5 os_handle:<PyHANDLE object at 0x011D30A4>>
> > process: debug:_SaferCreateProcess(appName=None,
> >                     cmd='C lsview -s',
> >                     env=None,
> >                     cwd=None)
> >     os.getcwd(): 'E:\\ccase\\python\\uhg\\uht'
> > 
> > process.res: info:[18680944] ProcessOpen.__del__()
> > process: info:[18680944] ProcessOpen.close()
> > process: info:[18680944] ProcessOpen: closing stdin (<_FileWrapper:
> > file:None fd
> > :3 os_handle:<PyHANDLE object at 0x011D4744>>).
> > process: debug:[18696880] _FileWrapper.close()
> > process: debug:[18696880] _FileWrapper.close: close handle
> > process: debug:[18696880] _FileWrapper.close: closing handle raised
> > process: debug:[18696880] _FileWrapper.close: done closing handle
> > process: info:[18680944] ProcessOpen: closing stdout (<_FileWrapper:
> > file:None f
> > d:4 os_handle:<PyHANDLE object at 0x011D47C4>>).
> > process: debug:[18696832] _FileWrapper.close()
> > process: debug:[18696832] _FileWrapper.close: close handle
> > process: debug:[18696832] _FileWrapper.close: closing handle raised
> > process: debug:[18696832] _FileWrapper.close: done closing handle
> > process: info:[18680944] ProcessOpen: closing stderr (<_FileWrapper:
> > file:None f
> > d:5 os_handle:<PyHANDLE object at 0x011D30A4>>).
> > process: debug:[18699984] _FileWrapper.close()
> > process: debug:[18699984] _FileWrapper.close: close handle
> > process: debug:[18699984] _FileWrapper.close: closing handle raised
> > process: debug:[18699984] _FileWrapper.close: done closing handle
> > process: debug:[18696832] _FileWrapper.close()
> > process: debug:[18696880] _FileWrapper.close()
> > process: debug:[18699984] _FileWrapper.close()
> > ---------
> > 
> > 
> 
> -- 
> Trent Mick
> TrentM at ActiveState.com




From toofat at world.com  Wed Jul 16 06:21:38 2003
From: toofat at world.com (À±°Ç¦ò)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 18:21:38 +0800
Subject: How about using python to write a CMS?
Message-ID: <bf38et$sp9$1@news.seed.net.tw>

To write a CMS, everyone is thinking about PHP, but, what do you think if I
am using python to write a Content Management System?





From adalke at mindspring.com  Mon Jul 21 13:33:08 2003
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 11:33:08 -0600
Subject: Possible use of Python for a voting machine demo project -- your feedback requested
References: <P9DSa.111436$Io.9552373@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <bff56e$8iv$1@slb9.atl.mindspring.net> <zXFSa.111727$Io.9572470@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <bfh7rs$hmv$1@slb4.atl.mindspring.net>

Alan Dechert:
> > "greyed" in normal UI parlance means the option is no longer selected.
> > What happens if someone pressed the wrong button?  How is the correct
> > selection made?
> >
> Point (or click on) again to de-select.

Agreeing with Ian Bicking in his followup, there's no need to grey out the
unselected fields, just emphasize the selected one.

> > No apostrophe?  What if I want to vote for "O'Reilly"
> >
> As a matter of fact, we won't let you vote for O'Reilly.

He-he, I was thinking of O'Reilly as the book publisher, forgetting there's
another one more closely involved with politics.

I brought it up because I remember on our old Plato system (last 1980s),
the Plato admin for the department was a "O'Something" and rewrote
some code which didn't allow him to use an apostrophe for his name.

>  Okay we'll have an apostrophe available.  Anything else?

I don't think there's need for accents, umlauts, tildes, and other such
marks,
even if it does mean leaving it out is technically a misspelling.

> Mercuri (Mercuri-Neumann, more accurately), suggests the paper ballot be
> inaccessible to the voter -- viewable behind glass.  This involves some
> expensive and proprietary hardware since paper handling must also deal
with
> rejected printouts.

Huh.  Well, like I said, I know just enough to be dangerous.  I like your
method instead.

> My scheme is cheaper and lower tech.  It allows the voter to handle the
> ballot.  This involves a minor security issue (then again, since when have
> we decided we can't trust voters to touch their ballots?).

Agreed.  We're trusting people to make a vote, so the little bit of extra
trust needed to handle a ballot seems appropriate.

> It is a real life problem.  We've given a lot of thought to this issue.
The
> printout will be designed so that counterfeits can be detected easily.

Cool!  I'm feeling all warm and fuzzy about your work now. :)

> > Isn't that overkill?  I seem to recall that already there are provisions
> > for people with special needs to have someone in the booth to help.
> >
> I don't think it's overkill.  One of the current [lame] arguments against
a
> "voter-verified paper trail" is that "Mandating Voter-Verified Paper
Trails
> Could Deny Voters With Disabilities the Right to Cast a Secret Ballot."

Indeed, and you're right.  Objection withdrawn.

> > Python would do this just fine.  There are the various GUI projects, but
> > this sounds like a good place for pygame.
> >
> Okay, thanks for your input.

BTW, another possibility for a demo is to use Flash.  I've never used
it, but I hear it has some sort of authoring environment and it's pretty
popular and documentation about it is widely available.  It might be
best to start with this for a demo.

                    Andrew
                    dalke at dalkescientific.com





From stefan.behrens.usenet at gmx.net  Wed Jul  9 09:27:02 2003
From: stefan.behrens.usenet at gmx.net (Stefan Behrens)
Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 15:27:02 +0200
Subject: Detecting user activity in Python
Message-ID: <beh576$jec$1@aken.eed.ericsson.se>

Hi all,

does anyone know a way to detect whether the user is "active"
at the desktop?

What I mean is, whether he/she is actively using the machine
by typing or moving the mouse. What I am looking for is some
kind of trigger to subscribe for. I'd need to distinguish cases
where the screen is locked and someone just touched the mouse
unwantedly.

I rather doubt that such functionality is in Python itself, i.e.
can be used platform independently. So in that case, has anyone
examples of how to do that in native C++ for Windows and Linux?

TIA

/Stefan.




From jon+usenet at unequivocal.co.uk  Thu Jul 10 19:36:52 2003
From: jon+usenet at unequivocal.co.uk (Jon Ribbens)
Date: 10 Jul 2003 23:36:52 GMT
Subject: Sample Web application
References: <mailman.1057865117.25491.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrnbgru4k.16p.jon+usenet@snowy.squish.net>

In article <mailman.1057865117.25491.python-list at python.org>, A.M. Kuchling wrote:
> Someone should write a specification for the communication protocol
> (a protocol simpler than FastCGI, which has a specification but is
> too complicated) 

I think you've said this before, but I still don't understand it. The
FastCGI protocol is very simple, and even if it wasn't you only have
to implement it once and then everyone can use that code. jonpy
implements the entire protocol, including all optional features, in
500 lines of Python, which includes a lot of debugging code. If you
didn't implement the optional features, which most people don't, then
it's even simpler.



From staschuk at telusplanet.net  Wed Jul 30 13:21:52 2003
From: staschuk at telusplanet.net (Steven Taschuk)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 11:21:52 -0600
Subject: Python..Tkinter..PYTHONPATH..
In-Reply-To: <f0b58f95.0307291054.4bc43c26@posting.google.com>; from usc_dog@yahoo.com on Tue, Jul 29, 2003 at 11:54:16AM -0700
References: <f0b58f95.0307291054.4bc43c26@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20030730112152.B361@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>

Quoth q:
> I have a Linux RH8.0 system. I installed Python2.2 from the 8.0 ISO
> updates. I installed the Tcl 8.3.3 from the Tcl site... I also
> installed the tcllib 1.0.
> 
> My goal is to get viewcvs to run. However, when I check to see where
> the system thinks things are, the PYTHONPATH env var is blank.
> 
> echo $PYTHONPATH --> produces nothing....
> 
> So, can anyone tell me what it should say? [...]

This variable is analogous to $PATH; it lists directories in which
the Python import mechanism will search for modules.  The
interpreter supplements this list with some paths it knows itself;
for the complete result, launch the Python interpreter (by typing
'python' at your shell prompt) and type
    import sys
    sys.path

Unlike $JAVA_HOME, for example, $PYTHONPATH does *not* give the
path to the Python installation.

I don't know what viewcvs is, but a typical application does not
require any modification to $PYTHONPATH unless it is installed in
a weird place.  Normally Python modules get installed into, e.g.,
/usr/lib/python2.2/site-packages, which is among the directories
the interpreter uses automatically.

> [...] Can anyone shed any light
> as to how this var is populated, and why it might be blank....? [...]

It is populated like any shell variable.  It should be blank when
the interpreter's default paths are sufficient.

> [...] Can
> anyone suggest what file I need to alter/should modify to have this
> properly set whenever a user logs into the system....?

The obvious places are /etc/profile and ~/.bashrc, as appropriate.

... but none of this seems obviously relevant to your objective.
Is viewcvs not working?  If not, what is the problem?

-- 
Steven Taschuk                           staschuk at telusplanet.net
"I'm always serious, never more so than when I'm being flippant."
                            -- _Look to Windward_, Iain M. Banks




From llothar at web.de  Wed Jul  9 15:06:21 2003
From: llothar at web.de (Lothar Scholz)
Date: 9 Jul 2003 12:06:21 -0700
Subject: Sample Web application (Re: Python vs PHP)
References: <mailman.1057574470.1750.python-list@python.org> <kmolgv4mp12o71ocion7ra0m2s9fcrqjdk@4ax.com> <begc78$rui$1@mawar.singnet.com.sg> <VLicnfImRJLPkpGiRTvUqA@speakeasy.net>
Message-ID: <6ee58e07.0307091106.5744a6eb@posting.google.com>

"A.M. Kuchling" <amk at amk.ca> wrote in message news:

> The Java Pet Store was suggested, but it was pointed out that it's a very
> large application, requiring too much effort for an author to do in their
> spare time.  

But you can see the difference only in larger application. Not
everything scales good when programming in the large is necessary. I
never found that simple benchmarks really helps.


> I think I like the store best, because the first three applications are
> all text-oriented, and the content manager doesn't do much beyond spitting back

Yes, me too. It should be something that is usefull for comparison in
larger commercial applications. And it should have test generators to
check the system under heavy system load.



From tamer.higazi at web.de  Tue Jul 22 09:49:18 2003
From: tamer.higazi at web.de (Tamer Higazi)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 15:49:18 +0200
Subject: How do i run an external program in an python script?
Message-ID: <bfjfg3$gos$1@ngspool-d02.news.aol.com>

Hi!
I have no idea about python. I got a c++ program which i want to be 
called from an python script. How do i do that?

My programs path under Linux is:

/bin/Prinit

For any help,

Thank you


Tamer




From ageron at HOHOHOHOvideotron.ca  Thu Jul  3 16:26:08 2003
From: ageron at HOHOHOHOvideotron.ca (Aurélien Géron)
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 22:26:08 +0200
Subject: Python Code Snippets
References: <be1hs0$111s$1@biggoron.nerim.net> <3f044c20$0$8303$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net>
Message-ID: <be23h6$1mfd$1@biggoron.nerim.net>

Hey thanks !
I wish it had a better ordering than just a list, but it's full of good
stuff.

Aur?lien

"Guyon Mor?e" <gumuz at looze.net> a ?crit dans le message de
news:3f044c20$0$8303$4d4ebb8e at news.nl.uu.net...
> You're gonna love this :)
>
> http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python
>
>
> "Aur?lien G?ron" <ageron at HOHOHOHOvideotron.ca> wrote in message
> news:be1hs0$111s$1 at biggoron.nerim.net...
> > Hi,
> >
> > Does anyone know where I can find a lot of Python code snippets?
> >
> > I searched the Python wiki and Internet but could not find more than
five
> or
> > ten code snippets at a time.
> >
> > I'm looking for a kind of organized list (GUI snippets, database access
> > snippets, I/O snippets, etc.).  I find that there's no better way to
learn
> a
> > language than to be able to cut&paste actual working bits of code.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Aur?lien
> >
> >
>
>





From peter at engcorp.com  Wed Jul  2 15:04:12 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 15:04:12 -0400
Subject: import/from import question
References: <slrnbfuo4v.fs2.pipen@beast.tu.kielce.pl>
Message-ID: <3F032CAC.6822C9AA@engcorp.com>

"Artur M. Piwko" wrote:
> 
> Is there a way to detect if module was imported by 'from <mod> import <sth>'
> or by 'import <mod>'?

Why do you want to do that?  It's likely to be a bad idea...



From sandskyfly at hotmail.com  Sun Jul  6 10:21:11 2003
From: sandskyfly at hotmail.com (Sandy Norton)
Date: 6 Jul 2003 07:21:11 -0700
Subject: Least used builtins?
References: <b03e80d.0307040620.2158fd41@posting.google.com> <vgedok1k72fd2d@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <b03e80d.0307060621.24c8114d@posting.google.com>

[John Roth]
> Reducing the number of builtins doesn't seem like the
> right direction. I'd prefer to see something in the
> official documentation that tries to bring some
> conceptual order to the builtins. While my mind *likes*
> to read down a list of dispariate things and try to bring
> some order out of the mess, I know that others are
> put off by the task.
> 
> <snip>

Although I agree with you that builtins could well benefit from some
improved conceptual grouping within the official documentation, I
think your point that the number of builtins should not be reduced
doesn't seem to coincide with Guido's explicit plans to "reduce
feature duplication" in Python 3.0 [1]

I also second Dr. Mertz's suggestion that some of the existing
builtins should be moved to appropriate modules within the standard
library. This would accomplish at least two things in my mind: it
would keep python minimal and allow additional features/functions to
be added without the risk of namespace pollution.

[1] http://www.europython.org/Talks/Slides/Slides_Guido_python_euro2003.ppt

Cheers,


Sandy



From adechert at earthlink.net  Mon Jul 21 12:59:15 2003
From: adechert at earthlink.net (Alan Dechert)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 16:59:15 GMT
Subject: Python voting demo discussion
References: <KRMSa.112426$Io.9623657@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <5penhv47e8plbm07dd615s5e0kj8hsfu7o@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <DZUSa.14915$Mc.1122083@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>

"L. A. Jackson" <leej at citymutual.com> wrote in message
news:5penhv47e8plbm07dd615s5e0kj8hsfu7o at 4ax.com...
>
> Sounds like an interesting project btw. Hope it has good auditing
> features ;)
>
Thanks for your input, Lee.  The ultimate [funded] product will have
excellent auditing features.  This is just a demo so that's not so
important.  It just has to look good and work smoothly.  We've decided to go
with Python for the demo.

Alan Dechert





From BPettersen at NAREX.com  Fri Jul 25 17:56:47 2003
From: BPettersen at NAREX.com (Bjorn Pettersen)
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 15:56:47 -0600
Subject: Static typing
Message-ID: <60FB8BB7F0EFC7409B75EEEC13E2019202CE4738@admin56.narex.com>

> From: Shane Hathaway [mailto:shane at zope.com] 
> 
> Scott David Daniels wrote:
> > You _might_ want some static typing information as program
> > documentation or to enable efficient program translation.  The
> > types sig was interested in allowing type annotation where
> > possible.  Remember, the type you might want may be more like
> > "what protocol must these objects (the ones passing through
> > this variable) follow" than "what are the construction details
> > of these objects".
> > 
> > I would like to see interface descriptions describing what
> > kinds of parameters are required and results produced for
> > packages that I am considering using.  If there were a single
> > central-python-endorsed form for those descriptions even better.
> > If the descriptions can be mechanically read, and at least
> > sometimes mechincally checked (possibly slowly, possibly only
> > for slow execution), I might use such a system to check a module
> > before announcing it to the world.
> 
> Well, here's a pattern I've been trying out for this purpose: 
> use assert 
> statements at the top of the function.
> 
> def foo(bar, baz):
>      assert isinstance(bar, int)
>      assert isinstance(baz, str)
[...]

...which means you can't use foo with unicode strings or UserStrings,
etc., etc. This is C programming in Python, ugly, inefficient,
inflexible, and un-Pythonic.

-- bjorn




From edlsoft at adelphia.net  Fri Jul 18 11:26:03 2003
From: edlsoft at adelphia.net (Burt Leavenworth)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 15:26:03 GMT
Subject: TKINTER problem
Message-ID: <3f18102e.209114@news2.news.adelphia.net>

Have used TKINTER for years with Python v1.5.2 with great success. But
after installing verson 2.0 (and most recently 2.2.3) I have a problem
exiting widgets by clicking on the exit button (x on upper right ---
)---the system hangs. It's driving me nuts. Can some kind soul
indicate what PATH statement they're using which deals with
TCL/TK, etc?

Burt Leavenworth.



From owski at hotmail.com  Wed Jul 16 10:15:58 2003
From: owski at hotmail.com (Adam Ruth)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 14:15:58 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: anything like C++ references?
References: <sag3hv4vf884ed7ouu5cv8ofnopp9j1t12@4ax.com>  
	<f0f51c80.0307132003.264b6894@posting.google.com>  
	<7dc4hvslh7a8fk9p6cvsfqa1c8d44rmmnv@4ax.com>  
	<beuepu$bsm$1@panix3.panix.com>  
	<sdd6hvsmsq32o62oknpqft6dc61lbup8rn@4ax.com>  
	<20030714173855120-0600@news.xmission.com>  
	<9mh6hv45v18apgn6lp7bo6mm63e5oba9rd@4ax.com>  
	<f0f51c80.0307150921.7b6667e2@posting.google.com> 
	<Xns93BA6253C731Fduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <20030716081550053-0600@news.xmission.com>

In <Xns93BA6253C731Fduncanrcpcouk at 127.0.0.1> Duncan Booth  wrote:
> owski at hotmail.com (Adam Ruth) wrote in 
> news:f0f51c80.0307150921.7b6667e2 at posting.google.com:
> 
>> 2) C++ makes a strong distinction between the initialization operator,
>>=, and the assignment operator, =.  Both const and reference variables
>> use them differently.  To me, that's a really big violation of proper
>> 'computer science', because conceptually they're the *same* thing. 
>> But because of context, C++ makes a distinction.  Python has no such
>> distinction, initialization and assigment are always the same.
>> 
>> (This is true of all static languages with the concept of a constant,
>> and I don't really disagree with it as a valuable idiom, but it is
>> inconsistent internally, where Python is consistent.  Do any 
>> languages use a different operator for initialization?)
> 
> Yes, Algol68.
> 
> My Algol68 is more than rusty, but:
> 
> Declare a name 'pi' to represent 3.1415926, i.e. declare a constant:
> 
>     REAL pi = 3.1415926;
>     
> Declare a name 'x' to represent a local variable, and assign it a 
> value:
>
>     REF REAL x = LOC REAL;
>     x := 3.1415926;
> 
> Shorthand for the above:
> 
>    REAL x;
>    x := 3.1415926;
> 
> or even:
> 
>    REAL x := pi;
> 
> Initialisation uses '=', assignment uses ':='. Note that the constant 
> is  defined as a real and initialised with one, but the variable is a 
> reference  to a real and initialised with a storage location. The last 
> example is not  initialising x with the value, it is implicitly 
> initialising x with a  location then assigning the value into that 
> location.
>

That's interesting.  What does it use for an equality operator?



From martin at v.loewis.de  Sat Jul 12 17:10:51 2003
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 23:10:51 +0200
Subject: Windows XP - Environment variable - Unicode
In-Reply-To: <vgvtb26kob5035@news.supernews.com>
References: <3f0e77fc@epflnews.epfl.ch> <vgvtb26kob5035@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <3F10795B.9000501@v.loewis.de>

John Roth wrote:

> I don't think encoding is an issue. Windows XP stores all character data as
> unicode internally, so whatever you get back from os.environ() is either
> going to be unicode, or it's going to be translated back to some single byte
> code by Python. 

Read the source, Luke. Python uses environ, which is a C library 
variable pointing to byte strings, so no Unicode here.

 > In the latter case, you may not be able to recover non-ascii
> values, so Rob Willscroft's workaround to get the unicode version may be
> your only hope.

You are certainly able to recover non-ascii values, as long as they
only use CP_ACP.

> If you're getting a standard string though, I'd try using Latin-1, or the
> Windows equivalent first (it's got an additional 32 characters that aren't in
> Latin-1.)

That, in general, is wrong. It is only true for the Western European and
American editions of Windows. In all other installations, CP_ACP differs
significantly from Latin-1.

> Note that Release 2.3 fixes the unicode problems for files under XP.
> It's currently in late beta, though. I don't know if it fixes the
> os.environ()

It doesn't. "Fixing" something here is less urgent and more difficult,
as environment variables rarely exceed CP_ACP.

If people get support for Unicode environment variables, they want 
Unicode command line arguments next.

Regards,
Martin




From tomas at fancy.org  Sun Jul 13 03:39:01 2003
From: tomas at fancy.org (Tom Plunket)
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 00:39:01 -0700
Subject: anything like C++ references?
References: <000301c348c7$3c501980$21795418@dell1700> <mailman.1058050638.14404.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <jf22hvotj4n0q5tpkg627e3jv61norf93n@4ax.com>

Ian Bicking wrote:

> To be more specific, you would achieve the same effect with:
> 
> def change(val):
>     return val + 1
> i = change(i)

Yeah, thanks.  I don't recall off-hand why it is that I wanted
this functionality, but something came up a few weeks ago that
seemed to beg for it.  This was the solution that I used, but it
was non-optimal for some reason.  The question came to mind
because of that global question posted just previously, to which
I made a good response if I may say so myself.  :)

> There is no direct Python equivalent to the C++ function, for all 
> sorts of reasons (most of them very deliberate).

Ok.  I'd love to see the reasons for it.  To me it just seems
like there's a somewhat arbitrary line between immutables and
mutables.

> Is there someplace in particular to reference people who need to 
> learn about what Python variables are (that they are bindings, 
> etc)?

Yeah, this is actually less a stumbling block, and more a desire
to want to bind to another variable instead of that variable's
value.  I mean, if I do this:

a = [ ]
b = a
a.append(4)

print b
[ 4 ]

This seems inconsistent to me, although I understand that the two
variables are just binding to the same list.  No different than
binding to the same tuple or integer or string, it's just that
changing the value of a tuple, an integer, or a string means
rebinding your variable to a different object.

I suppose one "solution" would be a class that wraps the value,
so the value can change but the object stays the same.  Similar
is using a list, but these two options make it a little less
convenient, and one must exercise extreme caution lest one
accidentally reassign as an int instead of changing the internals
of the wrapper object.

> This question comes up in many forms all the time, particularly 
> from people with a C background.  Or rather, there are many 
> questions all of which are answered by that explanation...

IMHO the variable binding discussion doesn't answer the question,
it just provokes more questions.  :)

thanks to all who responded.

-tom!



From http  Thu Jul 10 23:24:30 2003
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 10 Jul 2003 20:24:30 -0700
Subject: Securing 'pickle'
References: <pan.2003.07.11.01.20.47.998070@127.0.0.1> <mailman.1057889236.17205.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7xu19t21ap.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Ian Bicking <ianb at colorstudy.com> writes:
> A much easier way to secure your pickle is to sign it, like:
> 
> cookie = dumps(object)
> secret = 'really secret!'
> hasher = md5.new()
> hasher.update(secret)
> hasher.update(cookie)
> cookie_signature = md5.digest()

That method is vulnerable to an "appending" attack against md5.  I'll
spare the gory details, but you should call md5 through the HMAC
module to make the signature instead of using md5 directly.  HMAC is
designed to stop that attack.

> You may then wish to base64 encode both (.encode('base64')), pop them
> into one value, and you're off.  Though I suppose at that point you may
> be hitting the maximum value of a cookie.  Hidden fields will work
> nicely, though.

You could split the session info into several cookies, but in that
situation you should authenticate the whole cookie set with a single
signature.  Otherwise someone could paste together several cookies
from separate sessions, and possibly confuse your server.



From roy at panix.com  Thu Jul  3 18:49:21 2003
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 18:49:21 -0400
Subject: A story about Python... sort of
References: <3f03f430$0$97222$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk> <FiZMa.2097$_k2.145814@nnrp1.ptd.net> <dGZMa.5172$351.1725266@twister.nyc.rr.com> <mailman.1057259346.26179.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <roy-B0735D.18492003072003@reader1.panix.com>

Dave Brueck <dave at pythonapocrypha.com> wrote:
> If Python were to become too slow or too weird I'd migrate to
> another high-level language

I can certainly see situations were Python might be too slow, but too 
weird?  When would it be too weird?



From mcherm at mcherm.com  Wed Jul  2 19:07:00 2003
From: mcherm at mcherm.com (Michael Chermside)
Date: Wed,  2 Jul 2003 16:07:00 -0700
Subject: Clever One Liners
Message-ID: <1057187220.3f036594d7404@mcherm.com>

Hannu Kankaanp?? writes:
> Could be even written as a perverted one-liner.

I'm not picking on you in particular, there have been several people
doing this lately, but I'd like to ask folks to please lay off the
quest for one-liners.

I understand the neat, oh-so-clever feeling one gets by trying to
cram the most functionality into the least space, but if you're going
to try that, do it in Perl (or better yet, APL) where it works so
much better. I'm not putting down the exercise... I realize that it's
all in good fun... but people who are new to Python and who read this
newsgroup might get the wrong idea if they see a clever one-liner
proposed as the solution for every easy question. It's simply NOT 
Pythonic to try to write clever one-liners, and we don't want to let
newbies think it's appropriate.

> ...Maybe a real 'for' loop for getting the words would be better
> in this case though. So that the input could be verified too.

See, I can bring this up in response to Hannu's posting without 
pointing fingers since he clearly understands (and points out) the
advantages of a less compact style.

Donning-my-asbestos-suit-now lly,

-- Michael Chermside





From tim.harford at rogers.com  Sun Jul  6 20:02:39 2003
From: tim.harford at rogers.com (Tim)
Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 00:02:39 GMT
Subject: mod_python/good documentation? 
Message-ID: <zM2Oa.83234$2ay.6845@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>

...just starting to work with mod_python. There are a number of details and
pitfalls: any suggestions on where to get some decent tips and tricks. I can
comprehend the provided docs but...they are not that great. :-(

Feel free to comment/recommend any other Apache modules for py.

T





From irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl  Mon Jul 28 13:58:17 2003
From: irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 19:58:17 +0200
Subject: Defining/declaring constants in Python
In-Reply-To: <f2800d70.0307280949.75e5faf0@posting.google.com>
References: <f2800d70.0307280949.75e5faf0@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3f256437$0$49108$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

Sriram Chadalavada wrote:

>       I am currently using raw numerical values and  was wondering if
> there is an equivalent of #define in Python for declaring constants.
>  	 Is there an elegant way of defining constants in Python? Please let
> me know.

First, #define is not declaring constants in C or C++.
It is a preprocessor instruction that tells the compiler to replace
a piece of source code text by another piece.

That aside,
there is no such thing as a preprocessor or constant declarations in Python.
You can just define a bunch of attributes. That's what I do usually,
for example in the constants.py module of my Pyro project:

  RIF_Varargs  = (1<<0)
  RIF_Keywords = (1<<1)
  RIF_Oneway   = (1<<2)
  RIF_VarargsAndKeywords = RIF_Varargs | RIF_Keywords

  DENIED_UNSPECIFIED=0
  DENIED_SERVERTOOBUSY=1
  DENIED_HOSTBLOCKED=2
  DENIED_SECURITY=3

...and so on.

If you need 'constants' in a stricter sense, have a look at
http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/65207


--Irmen




From jar at mminternet.com  Thu Jul 31 22:31:17 2003
From: jar at mminternet.com (james roush)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 19:31:17 -0700
Subject: Trustudio plugins for Eclipse IDE
Message-ID: <MPG.199370cea32c3c089896bd@news.mminternet.com>

Earliear this week I asked for information regarding downloading 
Trudio's plugins for the Eclipse IDE.  Several people emailed me with 
help including one kind soul who actually emailed the plugina 
themselves.    

I intended to email these people back to thank them,  but I accidentally 
deleted their messages when I was digging out from under the constant 
avalanche of email.    To those who emailed me thanks for your help.    
the problem is solved.  
-- 
-----------------------
James A Roush
jar @ mminternet.com
-----------------------



From ebolonev at rol.ru  Sat Jul  5 18:15:10 2003
From: ebolonev at rol.ru (Egor Bolonev)
Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2003 09:15:10 +1100
Subject: execute scripts on GUI
References: <be72sg$ina$02$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <be7ime$h6t$1@news.rol.ru>

Hello, Thomas!
You wrote  on Sat, 05 Jul 2003 19:45:50 +0200:

 TW> I want to start a script via an Icon on the Desktop,
 TW> and I wonder how I can execute my GUI-scirpts (Tk on KDE)
 TW> without the "Pyhton Shell" window popping up...

In the Windows you have to rename script extension: .py -> .pyw.

With best regards, Egor Bolonev.  E-mail: ebolonev at rol.ru [ru eo en]




From bhards at bigpond.net.au  Mon Jul 21 06:32:08 2003
From: bhards at bigpond.net.au (Brad Hards)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 10:32:08 GMT
Subject: pythonic malloc
References: <OaOSa.6965$OM3.854@news-server.bigpond.net.au> <bfgbq2$eio91$1@ID-141451.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <IiPSa.7059$OM3.3966@news-server.bigpond.net.au>

Karl Scalet wrote:

> kjockey schrieb:
>> I have some simple UDP code that does:
>>
s.sendto("\xf0\x00\x02\x00rachel\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00",addr)
>> 
>> This is OK, except that I'd like to change the text in the middle
>> ("rachel", which is the hostname FWIW), and the NUL padding needs to go
>> out to make the length 25 bytes (so the padding depends on the length of
>> the name).
>> 
>> So I could do something like:
>> retpacket = "\xf0\x00\x02\x00"+socket.gethostname()
>> while len(retpacket) < 26:
> 
> shouldn't that be 25?
Yes.

>>      retpacket += "\x00"
>> s.sendto(retpacket, addr)
>> 
>> But that feels "wrong". And Python in a Nutshell says its a bad idea  -
>> "anti-idiom".
>> 
>> Can anyone show me the true path?
> 
> No idea, if it's the true path:
> 
> hn = socket.gethostname()
> retpacket = '\xf0\x00\x02\x00%s%s' % (hn, (25-4-len(hn))*chr(0))
> s.sendto(retpacket, addr)
Probably better for efficiency, but not much for readability....

Anyone else?



From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Jul 15 10:28:14 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 10:28:14 -0400
Subject: Securing the Pyton Interpreter?
References: <slrnbh7q3f.kiv.usenet@norge.freeshell.org>
Message-ID: <3F140F7E.32F0544E@engcorp.com>

Stephen VanDahm wrote:
> 
> I'm looking for a way to install Python on a UNIX machine in a way such
> that any user on the system can use it, but only to execute scripts that
> are located in a certain directory.  I do not have root access on the
> machine that will be running Python, so my options are limited.  I thought
> about hacking the Python interpreter itself so that it will examine the
> argument array and exit with an error if the script to be executed isn't
> in the appropriate directory, but this seems pretty risky.  The module
> 'site.py' is imported automatically upon initialization -- I've thought of
> adding the check there instead.  I don't think either of these solutions
> are very elegant.  Is there a better way?

You want something this freaky, *and* you want it elegant?! :-)

Anyway, just go with site.py.  Judging by the name, it's perfectly suited
for the task.

Of course, you know about the -S option, don't you?  And PYTHONPATH?
And PYTHONHOME?  And someone installing their own interpreter? And....

-Peter



From faizan at jaredweb.com  Wed Jul 30 00:04:23 2003
From: faizan at jaredweb.com (Fazer)
Date: 29 Jul 2003 21:04:23 -0700
Subject: Showing IP address of a user...
References: <7b454334.0307291005.53ee8c07@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <7b454334.0307292004.53ee96a8@posting.google.com>

Thank you  Marnanel and everyone who replied.  This gives me a better understanding.



From spam at magnetic-ink.dk  Sun Jul  6 17:32:22 2003
From: spam at magnetic-ink.dk (Klaus Alexander Seistrup)
Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2003 21:32:22 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: python -c option
References: <pan.2003.07.06.21.51.32.184992@kordik.net>
Message-ID: <3f089566-aab89149-1d91-41c5-86d0-70c5d0a15f3e@news.szn.dk>

Mike wrote:

> I am very new to Python and read the docs section about having
> python run commands from the command line. I have been successful
> with:
> 
> python -c "print 'Hello'"
> 
> It prints Hello
> 
> In the interpreter I can type 2+2 and it will return 4 but how do
> I do that from the command line?

#v+

python -c 'print 2+2'

#v-

> What I am really after is to do some command line processing where
> the output of grep is returning "prog=.01234" and I want to beautify
> it so it prints "12%"

Assuming the output is "prog=.1234", you _could_ do ugly things like

#v+

python -c 'import sys; exec(sys.stdin.readline()); print "%d%%" % (prog*100,)'

#v-

but why not write a small python script instead?


  // Klaus

-- 
 ><> 	unselfish actions pay back better



From cybersamurai at mac.com  Tue Jul  8 12:21:14 2003
From: cybersamurai at mac.com (Luiz Siqueira Neto)
Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 13:21:14 -0300
Subject: Form using HTML on PythonCard
Message-ID: <3F0AEF7A.6070509@mac.com>

An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed...
Name: mail.txt
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20030708/b153ed32/attachment.txt>

From bens at replytothegroupplease.com  Thu Jul 31 06:09:18 2003
From: bens at replytothegroupplease.com (Ben S)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 11:09:18 +0100
Subject: time, calendar, datetime, etc
References: <153fa67.0307300326.45a29380@posting.google.com> <mailman.1059631303.24782.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bgaphh$lua$1@news7.svr.pol.co.uk>

Steven Taschuk wrote:
> Quoth Kylotan:
>   [...]
>> And does datetime.timetuple() actually return something equivalent to
>> a struct_time as used by the time module? At first glance this looks
>> to be true, but it isn't clearly documented as such.
>
> Isn't it?
>
>     timetuple()
>         Return a 9-element tuple of the form returned by
> time.localtime().
>
> <http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/datetime-datetime.html>

Problem is, time.localtime() doesn't return a 9-element tuple any more,
it returns a struct_time. (Since 2.2, I think.)

--
Ben Sizer
http://pages.eidosnet.co.uk/kylotan





From paul.moore at atosorigin.com  Mon Jul 14 17:19:37 2003
From: paul.moore at atosorigin.com (Paul Moore)
Date: 14 Jul 2003 14:19:37 -0700
Subject: path module
References: <1057651068.5348.386.camel@lothlorien> <mailman.1057656790.5578.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <182bcf76.0307141319.7b6fed7a@posting.google.com>

holger krekel <pyth at devel.trillke.net> wrote in message news:<mailman.1057656790.5578.python-list at python.org>...
> I agree that something like Jason Orendorff's path module should go into
> the standard library.  I've coded a similar module and i think that
> a discussion about certain design decisions would probably improve our
> approaches. 

Is it available anywhere? It would be nice to be able to try both, for comparison.

Paul.



From t.leeuwenburg at removme.bom.gov.au  Wed Jul 16 22:29:13 2003
From: t.leeuwenburg at removme.bom.gov.au (Tennessee James Leeuwenburg)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 12:29:13 +1000
Subject: Jython classpath question
Message-ID: <pan.2003.07.17.02.29.12.502474@removme.bom.gov.au>

Hi all,

Sorry for the newb question, but Googling and FAQing didn't work. Is it
correct that Jython can only access Java classes which are inside JAR
archives in the JYTHON_HOME directory? IT doesn't seem to be documented. I
ask because I want to do groovy prototyping using Jython, and save myself
a lot of coding overhead to try something a little out-of-the-box.

I have a working directory where all my code lives, and because my app is
under rapid development, I would prefer to avoid creating a JAR file every
time I want to do some Python scripting?

What do people suggest I do?

Thanks,
-Tennessee



From mfranklin1 at gatwick.westerngeco.slb.com  Wed Jul  9 10:44:47 2003
From: mfranklin1 at gatwick.westerngeco.slb.com (Martin Franklin)
Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 15:44:47 +0100
Subject: Tkinter question - proper output in Text widget
In-Reply-To: <3F0C2030.40405@snafu.de>
References: <3F0C2030.40405@snafu.de>
Message-ID: <200307091544.47558.mfranklin1@gatwick.westerngeco.slb.com>

On Wednesday 09 July 2003 15:01, T. Kaufmann wrote:
> Hi there,
>
> I have some lines of code in a Tkinter programm - I want to list every
> single file of a zip-archive in a Text widget:
>
> fp = os.popen("%s %s" % ('unzip -vl ', 'anyarchiv.zip', 'r')
> for line in fp:
>      textWidget.insert(END, "%s" % (line))
>
> The result is that the columns are not really proper if the file-size of
> the listed files is different. An output example:
>
>
>   Length   Method    Size  Ratio   Date   Time   CRC-32    Name
> --------  ------  ------- -----   ----   ----   ------    ----
>      1175  Defl:N      513  56%  05-23-03 13:51  084e4103  charset.py
>       972  Defl:N      427  56%  04-05-03 18:42  b8bb850d  controller.py
>
>
> Here it looks good but not in my application (in the Text widget). Whats
> wrong? How can I made a better result (proper columns).
>
> o-o
>
> Thomas

Thomas,


It did not look so good in my email client (I do not use fixed width fonts...) 
which is the problem I guess you are seeing in the Tkinter Text widget
try setting the font to a fixed width font eg. Courier.

You should also look at the zipfile module.  This module allows you to do away 
with the os.popen("%s %s" % ('unzip -vl ', 'anyarchiv.zip', 'r') call like 
so:

import zipfile

zf = zipfile.ZipFile("'anyarchiv.zip")
for name in zf.namelist():
    ##blah 
    textWidget.insert(END, "%s" % (line))


HTH
Martin







From pedro.werneck at bol.com.br  Tue Jul 29 10:32:44 2003
From: pedro.werneck at bol.com.br (Pedro Werneck)
Date: 29 Jul 2003 07:32:44 -0700
Subject: Debugging Python ?
References: <mailman.1059409013.10134.python-list@python.org> <vian1bbfkogpa1@news.supernews.com> <ef72fb2b.0307281449.6b144be7@posting.google.com> <3c91a864.0307282013.2acb2d1f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <ef72fb2b.0307290632.1997cb6a@posting.google.com>

That's a nice idea... I done something similar to redirect print
statements to a text widget in a debug environment I am developing...
but my point here is not to redirect output... I think a statement
that simply does:    if __debug__: print "..."    would ease
debugging... that:  def _print(*args):     for arg in args:        
print arg     return True  assert _print("bla", "bla bla")  is very
interesting but it would be nice to have a standard way to do that...
a new statement, a modified assert statement or a new builtin... I am
not that experienced on python, so I don't know... what do you Python
gurus think ? Is this worth the effort ?



From mwright at pro-ns.net  Tue Jul  8 11:18:06 2003
From: mwright at pro-ns.net (Mark Wright)
Date: 8 Jul 2003 08:18:06 -0700
Subject: Unexpected (by me) exec behavior
Message-ID: <f9ff3f62.0307080718.419c9f4f@posting.google.com>

I have a script that I use to control our build process.  It is a
general purpose script that exec's other scripts that contain project
specific python code.  In one of those other, project-specific,
scripts I exec a third script.  That third script is failing because
it can't seem to 'import' successfully.  It seems that if one 'exec's
a string that in turn 'exec's another string, the 'import's don't work
in the second string.  I'm assuming that I'm misunderstanding
something about Python namespaces, but here's an example that
illustrates the problem:

----------------------------
# filename = t.py
s1 = """
s2 = \"\"\"
import socket
def xyz():
	print socket.gethostbyname('somehost')
if __name__ == '__main__':
	xyz()
\"\"\"

def abc():
	exec s2
if __name__ == '__main__':
	abc()
"""

exec s1
-----------------------------

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "t.py", line 24, in ?
    exec s1
  File "<string>", line 13, in ?
  File "<string>", line 11, in abc
  File "<string>", line 6, in ?
  File "<string>", line 4, in xyz
NameError: global name 'socket' is not defined

Can anyone explain this to me?

Mark



From andy47 at halfcooked.com  Tue Jul 29 12:04:15 2003
From: andy47 at halfcooked.com (Andy Todd)
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 17:04:15 +0100
Subject: variable assignment in "while" loop
In-Reply-To: <F7DB8D13DB61D511B6FF00B0D0F062330592C8E3@mail.hebmex.com>
References: <F7DB8D13DB61D511B6FF00B0D0F062330592C8E3@mail.hebmex.com>
Message-ID: <bg660c$qhl$1@main.gmane.org>

sismex01 at hebmex.com wrote:

>>From: Andy Todd [mailto:andy47 at halfcooked.com] 
>>Sent: Martes, 29 de Julio de 2003 10:23 a.m.
>>
>>Spot on, with one (minor) correction. With a for loop you have to 
>>iterate over the results of a call to a method on the cursor, e.g.;
>>
>>for info in mydbcursor.fetchall():
>>     print "Information:", info
>>
>>You could replace fetchall() with fetchmany() or, if you are feeling 
>>contrary, fetchone() ;-)
>>
>>Regards,
>>Andy
>>
> 
> 
> Are you sure about this?  Because, if you have to iterate
> through .fetchall()  (for example), then the cursor isn't
> actually an iterable object, the result of fetchall() is
> (it's a list, which is iterable), same goes for fetchmany();
> BUT, if you iterate over the results of fetchone() then
> you're gonna do a columnwise iteration over a single row.
> 
> :-)
> 
> So... anyone... do cursors have an __iter__() method?
> I don't have a DB module at hand to check it out...
> 
> -gustavo
> 
> 

Technically, cursor objects are not iterators, and the DB-API 
specification has this to say about the various methods that return data;

"""
.fetchone()

Fetch the next row of a query result set, returning a
single sequence, or None when no more data is
available.

...

.fetchmany([size=cursor.arraysize])

Fetch the next set of rows of a query result, returning a
sequence of sequences (e.g. a list of tuples). An empty
sequence is returned when no more rows are available.

...

.fetchall()

Fetch all (remaining) rows of a query result, returning
them as a sequence of sequences (e.g. a list of tuples).
"""

Which means that the cursor object itself is not an iterator, and the 
methods need only return a sequence (or sequence of sequences).

But, thats not to say that the db modules can't implement a generator to 
produce the results from the 'fetch' methods if they want to. I don't 
know if any of the database modules do, but then thats up to the module 
authors and I tend not to worry about it too much, I just trust the module.

Regards,
Andy
-- 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 From the desk of Andrew J Todd esq - http://www.halfcooked.com/






From MK at foo.com  Tue Jul  1 08:26:09 2003
From: MK at foo.com (MK)
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 14:26:09 +0200
Subject: Python hosting?
Message-ID: <bdruli$10i9il$1@ID-174077.news.dfncis.de>

Can anybody recommend a good hosting package
for Python? Must be cheap, that is max. $5 per month.

If the solution offers Java+MySQL as well, that would
be great!





From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Sat Jul 26 18:15:17 2003
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 18:15:17 -0400
Subject: Standard behaviour of a getSomething method
References: <A128D751272CD411BC9200508BC2194D03382C3A@escpl.tcp.com.ar> <mailman.1059084757.18138.python-list@python.org> <bfulr8$5mi$1@online.de>
Message-ID: <vi5vbppbkht521@news.supernews.com>

"Stefan Schwarzer" <sschwarzer at sschwarzer.net> wrote in message
news:bfulr8$5mi$1 at online.de...
> Mike Rovner wrote:
> > Batista, Facundo wrote:
> >
> >> When I want to know about a attribute (e.g.: myAttrib) of an object, I
> >> should use the specific method (e.g.: getMyAttrib).
> >
> > Python don't enforce nor encourage attribute hiding,
> > so don't do it unless you have a good reason.
> > Plain access to attributes is simple:
> >     myObject.myAttribute
>
> I think, you should hide an attribute if it doesn't refer to the
> object's abstract interface but instead merely depends on the
> implementation. In that case, you shouldn't provide any means to
> access the attribute directly, be it via direct attribute access or
> accessor methods.

I agree with the general principle: implementation details shouldn't
be generally availible in the same way as the public API.

> Somewhat, I dislike the sometimes recommended __getattr__/__setattr__
> approach. I wouldn't like to have something like

That sounds more than a bit heavyhanded to me. The more
general practice is simply to name private attributes with a
leading underscore. Then you can verify that there aren't any
improper references by scanning the source for references to
underscored variables that don't start with "self._".

John Roth





From h.b.furuseth at usit.uio.no  Sun Jul  6 11:16:43 2003
From: h.b.furuseth at usit.uio.no (Hallvard B Furuseth (nospam nospam))
Date: 06 Jul 2003 17:16:43 +0200
Subject: M2Crypto: How to check server certificate?
Message-ID: <HBF.20030706vmfw@bombur.uio.no>

Does anyone know how I check the server certificate with M2Crypto?
Currently a program I have inherited does this:

    #!/local/bin/python2.2
    import xmlrpclib
    from M2Crypto.m2xmlrpclib import Server, SSL_Transport
    svr = Server('http://my.machine.no:8000',
                 SSL_Transport(), encoding='iso8859-1')
    # TODO: check server certificate
    secret = svr.login('myuser', 'mypassword')

-- 
Hallvard



From skip at pobox.com  Tue Jul 29 12:08:10 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 11:08:10 -0500
Subject: variable assignment in "while" loop
In-Reply-To: <slrnbicoqq.6gh.sybrenUSE@sybren.thirdtower.com>
References: <slrnbicoqq.6gh.sybrenUSE@sybren.thirdtower.com>
Message-ID: <16166.39914.404838.939106@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    Sybren> Is it possible to use an assignment in a while-loop?

Nope.  To learn why, read question 6.30 of the FAQ:

    http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw.py?req=show&file=faq06.030.htp

Skip




From anton at vredegoor.doge.nl  Wed Jul 16 16:27:12 2003
From: anton at vredegoor.doge.nl (Anton Vredegoor)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 22:27:12 +0200
Subject: Python Quiz
References: <84fc4588.0307152253.20858619@posting.google.com> <Xns93BA6E5A0FA08duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <bf4ci4$bt0$1@news.hccnet.nl>

Duncan Booth <duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk> wrote:

>At this year's ACCU conference, Guido talked somewhat about the history of 
>Python. He said it was based on ABC, "other influences: Modula-3, C/C++ and 
>even Smalltalk, Icon, Pascal, Algol-68". By my reckoning that makes two of 
>the answers to question 4 correct.

Sorry to read that, poor Guido must have been lost in Time-loop
complexities. In fact Python is a direct descendant from Frank
Ostrowki's GFAbasic for the atari ST series. Once Guido realizes it he
will doubtlessly clear up the few remaining inconsistencies and we can
expect the magical Python 3000 to be fully compliant :-)

Anton



From johnroth at ameritech.net  Wed Jul  2 07:23:48 2003
From: johnroth at ameritech.net (John Roth)
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 07:23:48 -0400
Subject: Date issue Win98 vs NT
References: <SDsMa.38974$hV.2346862@twister.austin.rr.com>
Message-ID: <vg5g42dpkq2kfe@news.supernews.com>

"Stan Cook" <scook at elp.rr.com> wrote in message
news:SDsMa.38974$hV.2346862 at twister.austin.rr.com...
> Has anyone else had this or a similar problem and is there a
workaround?
>
> This piece of code:
>
> from time import gmtime, strftime
> _log = _log + "\\" + strftime("%m%d%y", gmtime()) + ".log"
>
> produces a file with the name 'today's date.log' on NT, but creates a
file
> called 'tomorrow's date.log' on Windows 98.  I would really like to
know
> why this happens.  Any help offered is very much appreciated.

I just tried it (Win 98SE, Python 2.2) and it works properly.
Have you checked your date settings on the Win 98 machine?

John Roth
>
> Thanks,
>
> Stan
>
>





From tim.one at comcast.net  Fri Jul 25 02:01:10 2003
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 02:01:10 -0400
Subject: Python 2.3C1 Fails to build ?
In-Reply-To: <z82Ua.71562$0v4.4775810@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCCEPHEPAB.tim.one@comcast.net>

[Holden Caulfield]
> I am trying to build Python 2.3 RC1 (2.3c1) on Cray SV1 running
> UNICOS 10.0. And I am difficulty building it on this architecture.

Please open a bug report on SourceForge.

> Background
> --------------
>
> . Python 2.2.3 builds withs no problem. (without any changes).
> . This architecture has all C-datatypes as 8 bytes.
>
> Try 1:
> -------
>
> I got this error message first time around.
>
> ~~~~ Cut ~~
> cc -h nomessage=450 -h nostdc -h noconform -c  -DNDEBUG -h scalar0 -h
> vector0 -I. -I./Include  -DPy_BUILD_CORE -o Parser/grammar.o
> Parser/grammar.c
> CC-513 cc: ERROR File = Parser/grammar.c, Line = 45
>   A value of type "int" cannot be assigned to an entity of type "char
> *".
>
>    d->d_name = strdup(name);
>              ^
>
> CC-513 cc: ERROR File = Parser/grammar.c, Line = 105
>   A value of type "int" cannot be assigned to an entity of type "char
> *".
>
>    lb->lb_str = strdup(str);
>               ^
>
> Total errors detected in Parser/grammar.c: 2
> make: *** [Parser/grammar.o] Error 1
>
> ~~~~~~
>
> - For some reason the strdup prototype does not get picked by the
> python build.

strdup isn't a standard C function, so there's no header file that can be
counted on to contain its prototype across platforms.


> Anyways, since strdup is there in libc, I just #ifdef'ed the
> prototype for _CRAY and proceeded.

Please open that bug report <wink> and identify the header file this system
wants you to include for strdup, and a preprocessor symbol we can use to
conditionalize the include of that header file.

> It went further this time around, but now I get this error in
> obmalloc.c, which seems more problematic to fix.
>
> ~~~ Error message cut ~~~
> cc -h nomessage=450 -h nostdc -h noconform -c  -DNDEBUG -h scalar0 -h
> vector0 -I. -I./Include  -DPy_BUILD_CORE -o Objects/obmalloc.o
> Objects/obmalloc.c
> CC-61 cc: ERROR File = Objects/obmalloc.c, Line = 371
>   The integer operation result is out of range.
>
>    PT(0), PT(1), PT(2), PT(3), PT(4), PT(5), PT(6), PT(7)
>    ^
>
> CC-61 cc: ERROR File = Objects/obmalloc.c, Line = 371
>   The integer operation result is out of range.
>
>    PT(0), PT(1), PT(2), PT(3), PT(4), PT(5), PT(6), PT(7)
>    ^
>
> Total errors detected in Objects/obmalloc.c: 2
> make: *** [Objects/obmalloc.o] Error 1
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> Any ideas what is going on?

I'm surprised this hasn't triggered a (bogus) error on some other platform
before!  Those macros expand to a pretty hairy initializer.  But I don't
think there's anything wrong with it, so you should file a bug report
against the Cray compiler.

obmalloc was present in 2.2.3 but not enabled by default.  That's why you
didn't see this problem before.  In 2.3 obmalloc is enabled by default.  You
can get unstuck by disabling it again (I don't know how to disable it on
your platform -- file the Python bug report and someone will be able to
respond to you there).  While obmalloc is a big win on most platforms, I
wouldn't enable it on a Cray of this sort before doing serious
with-and-without performance testing.





From elainejackson7355 at home.com  Sun Jul 13 01:59:35 2003
From: elainejackson7355 at home.com (Elaine Jackson)
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 05:59:35 GMT
Subject: new in town
References: <AeVPa.445271$Vi5.11496890@news1.calgary.shaw.ca> <2a897f11.0307121139.21470fbb@posting.google.com> <EM_Pa.420940$ro6.10135135@news2.calgary.shaw.ca> <pan.2003.07.13.03.22.29.943248@127.0.0.1> <pan.2003.07.13.03.27.44.711790@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <bz6Qa.420654$3C2.11454989@news3.calgary.shaw.ca>

David McNab <postmaster at 127.0.0.1> wrote in message
news:pan.2003.07.13.03.27.44.711790 at 127.0.0.1...
<snip>
| Don't be intimidated if the Tkinter docs you come across urge you to
| approach it from a Tk viewpoint- there's an excellent guide at:
| http://www.astro.washington.edu/owen/TkinterSummary.html
<snip>
| David


Thanks for the tip.





From richie at entrian.com  Fri Jul 11 03:47:49 2003
From: richie at entrian.com (Richie Hindle)
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 08:47:49 +0100
Subject: Collective memory
In-Reply-To: <1fxw51u.2b4m6zc39wulN%proto@panix.com>
References: <mailman.1057083728.8224.python-list@python.org> <vg88va53uha8e@corp.supernews.com> <3F09F136.6060000@srv.net> <3F0B2857.6EE3A30F@ev1.net> <1fxw51u.2b4m6zc39wulN%proto@panix.com>
Message-ID: <7eqsgvs1tj2h55lork2jmhv0itssudq93j@4ax.com>

[Charles]
>     y = x/*p;
> 
> is quite different from:
> 
>     y = x / *p;
> 
> The first way, "/*" will begin a comment...the second way,
> you get the integer "x" divided by the integer pointed to by "p".

[Walter]
> Ouch!! That is one reason code coloring is *important*.

<aol>Me too.</aol>  In the (not too distant) days when syntax colouring
was rare and C would quietly declare undeclared variables as 32-bit
integers, we lost several man days to a piece of code like this:

void function()
{
    short x;    /* Some X thing /*
    short y;    /* Some Y thing */

    functionExpectingPointersToShorts(&x, &y);
}

Dragging us back on topic, this is why languages should only have
single-line comments, and shouldn't let you reference variables before
they're defined.

-- 
Richie Hindle
richie at entrian.com





From printers at sendme.cz  Mon Jul 14 16:10:46 2003
From: printers at sendme.cz (A)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 22:10:46 +0200
Subject: Is there any clever solution?
Message-ID: <3F132A66.3211.D9B4A60@localhost>

Hi,
I use a free webhosting. The problem is that if  a user visits my website, together with 
index.html( my first webpage) also 2 other web pages with ads are open. Is it possible 
somehow to prevent that? Or is it possible to close those 2 web pages (more or less full of 
advertisements) and let only mine available?
Thanks for help.
Ladislav






From h.b.furuseth at usit.uio.no  Fri Jul 18 09:21:31 2003
From: h.b.furuseth at usit.uio.no (Hallvard B Furuseth (nospam nospam))
Date: 18 Jul 2003 15:21:31 +0200
Subject: path module
References: <mailman.1057651032.22842.python-list@python.org> <HBF.20030708keeu@bombur.uio.no> <mailman.1057687272.12913.python-list@python.org> <HBF.20030714p6jh@bombur.uio.no> <mailman.1058186238.11780.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <HBF.20030718qb4k@bombur.uio.no>

Ian Bicking wrote:
>On Mon, 2003-07-14 at 06:44, Hallvard B Furuseth wrote:
>>Ian Bicking wrote:
>>> Interesting, but I think a bad idea.  (...)  If someone was using VMS
>>> paths, I would assume they would subclass path for that OS, adding the
>>> portions that applied.
>> 
>> It would be pointless to include _data structures_ for components that
>> are not supported on any system Python is ported to, but for subclassing
>> to make sense, some of the _interface_ would have to be in place.  Like
>> the possibility of usin path.joindir() vs. path.joinfile() or something
>> depending on whether the result should be a file or directory path.  And
>> just path.join() for people who don't care.  Assuming there will be a
>> join method, of course.
> 
> Since *no one* will ever use joindir or joinfile, why would it be
> helpful?

Because we disagree about whether or not anyone will use it:-)

>> Also, you may need some special handling of 'device:' on Windows.
> 
> Yes, and the network portion as well (\\server\...).  However, it would
> still be handled textually.

FIne by me.  I wasn't thinking of what the internals would look like at
all.

>>> I think it's unreasonable to expect people programming on normal
>>> platforms to pay attention to components like version, so even
>>> including it in a structured manner is asking for trouble.
>> 
>> I dunno.  People have already mentioned coming systems where versions
>> will be availbale.
> 
> But we have no idea what it will look like, or how it may be represented
> in a filename (if at all!) -- so implementing something based on that
> would be a little optimistic.  You're likely to create an interface that
> won't make sense.  Better to leave it unspecified until there's an
> actual system you want to support, at which point the interface will
> seem much clearer.  Predictive design is a very bad idea.

Actually I disagree here.  The danger of designing to an existing system
is that another system may come along where the versioning doesn't fit
our design.  I think it's a good idea to design it - but not necessaril
implement it - before we see how it works on a real system.  Then the
real system comes will either prove that we did good enough, or that we
didn't.  In the latter case, it may be better to leave it out anyway.

-- 
Hallvard



From andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au  Thu Jul 10 08:26:58 2003
From: andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au (Andrew MacIntyre)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 22:26:58 +1000 (EST)
Subject: Shared vs static link performance hit --and Windows?
In-Reply-To: <m3brw33342.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
References: <k7clgvoqjur1f10mosue3os74vv7nd34hi@4ax.com>
 <mailman.1057672018.10107.python-list@python.org> <6btlgvgjq48mbtmu097939dl1c1gmki0qd@4ax.com>
 <mailman.1057713433.5610.python-list@python.org> <m3he5wgt9b.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
 <mailman.1057756641.23469.python-list@python.org> <m3brw33342.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <20030710221220.P91892@bullseye.apana.org.au>

On Thu, 9 Jul 2003, Martin v. [iso-8859-15] L?wis wrote:

> On such systems, use of PIC is only for performance, to save the
> relocations. Notice that this use is often questioned, as you have to
> trade runtime efficiency due to the loss of general-purpose registers
> to the PIC implementation, on particular on x86. So for long-running
> applications, it would be better to accept the relocations at start-up
> time, and get better performance during the computations.

Thanks, again, for taking the time to correct my obsolete understanding.

--
Andrew I MacIntyre                     "These thoughts are mine alone..."
E-mail: andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au  (pref) | Snail: PO Box 370
        andymac at pcug.org.au             (alt) |        Belconnen  ACT  2616
Web:    http://www.andymac.org/               |        Australia




From dkuhlman at rexx.com  Fri Jul 18 20:36:48 2003
From: dkuhlman at rexx.com (Dave Kuhlman)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 17:36:48 -0700
Subject: Documentation examples needed
References: <aUnRa.16108$o54.11296@lakeread05> <m31xwpoj7n.fsf@ferret.object-craft.com.au> <oLFRa.7720$zd4.2930@lakeread02>
Message-ID: <bfa3r1$ctqja$2@ID-139865.news.uni-berlin.de>

Stuart D. Gathman wrote:

> On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 00:44:44 -0400, Dave Cole wrote:
> 
>> Stuart> Is there a small project with documentation in the Python
>> Stuart> standard that I can use as an example?
>> 
>> We have some:
>> 
>>         http://www.object-craft.com.au/projects/albatross/
>>         http://www.object-craft.com.au/projects/sybase/sybase/
> 
> Thank you.  Your Makefile is much less confusing than the one that
> comes
> with Python!  It also points out a shortcoming of the RPM
> packaging.  The python2-devel package includes everything you need
> to compile python extension modules, but does not include what is
> needed to "compile"
> python documentation!  Are third party module writers not supposed
> to document anything? :-) It looks like I'll have to download the
> Python sources and create my own RPMs.
> 
> Presumably, I do not need *everything* in the Doc directory to
> compile my
> own docs.  Probably just the tools directory, and maybe texinputs
> and
> templates.  Is the list of what is needed for 3rd party docs
> documented
> somewhere?  

The file Doc/README (in the Python source code distribution) has
some of this information.  You will have to scan down a ways for
it, though.

  - Dave

-- 
Dave Kuhlman
http://www.rexx.com/~dkuhlman
dkuhlman at rexx.com



From smethells at llnl.gov  Thu Jul 31 13:29:45 2003
From: smethells at llnl.gov (Greg Smethells)
Date: 31 Jul 2003 10:29:45 -0700
Subject: What does "*list" mean?
Message-ID: <fb0466d1.0307310929.3c8eb2a3@posting.google.com>

What exactly does "*values" mean in the following code? Is this a
pointer to a PyList? Why can I not find good documentation on this any
where? I must be blind:

>>> from struct import *
>>> format = "dl"
>>> values = [3.14, 42]
>>> foo = pack(format, *values)
>>> foo
'\x1f\x85\xebQ\xb8\x1e\t@*\x00\x00\x00'
>>> unpack(format, foo)
(3.1400000000000001, 42)
>>>

More importantly still, how would you write the same code in C? If you
wanted to instead call struct_pack(PyObject *tuple), what would the
tuple look like in C?

Thanks to anyone who can clear all this up for me. 

Greg



From irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl  Thu Jul 31 06:04:07 2003
From: irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 12:04:07 +0200
Subject: RELEASED Python 2.3 (final)
In-Reply-To: <slrnbih0m0.vpm.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>
References: <mailman.1059523523.23534.python-list@python.org> <3f27bacd$0$49113$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl> <c76ff6fc.0307301323.62f3ccd6@posting.google.com> <bg9hgu$k31$1@panix2.panix.com> <38ec68a6.0307301828.7310e01b@posting.google.com> <slrnbih0m0.vpm.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>
Message-ID: <3f28e998$0$49107$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

Ben Finney wrote:
> Or 'totally mega kudos, d00dZ' depending which decade you're living in.

rather, "Thanx 2 all developers 4 ur 1337 c0D1ng Skilzz!!!"





From belred1 at yahoo.com  Thu Jul 24 21:48:30 2003
From: belred1 at yahoo.com (Bryan)
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 01:48:30 GMT
Subject: file.close()
References: <edITa.131868$Ph3.17333@sccrnsc04> <mailman.1059052897.16526.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <O%%Ta.139319$Ph3.16718@sccrnsc04>

"Francois Pinard" <pinard at iro.umontreal.ca> wrote in message
news:mailman.1059052897.16526.python-list at python.org...
> [Bryan]
>
> > I'm curious to know how others handle the closing of files.  [...] I'm
> > aware that files will automatically be closed when the process exits.
>
> For one, I systematically avoid cluttering my code with unneeded `close'.
> The advantages are simplicity and legibility, both utterly important to
me.
>
> However, I do understand that if I ever have to move a Python script
> to Jython, I will have to revise my scripts for adding the clutter I am
> sparing today.  I'm quite accepting to do that revision if this occurs.
> Until then, I prefer keeping my scripts as neat as possible.
>
> For me, explicitely closing a file, for which the only reference is about
> to disappear through function exiting, would be very similar to using
> `del' on any variable I happened to use in that function: gross
overkill...
>
> The only reason to call `close' explicitly is when there is a need to
close
> prematurely.  Absolutely no doubt that such needs exist at times.  But
> closing all the time "just in case" is symptomatic of unsure programming.
> Or else, it is using Python while still thinking in other languages.
>
> -- 
> Fran?ois Pinard   http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/~pinard
>

you are correct this is so awesome... at least for me it is... now i remove
a lot of my clutter too :)   i just did some tests on windows by trying to
delete file1 at the command prompt when raw_input is called.

f = file('file1')
raw_input('pause')

### the file is NOT closed


file('file1')
raw_input('pause')

### the file IS closed


f = file('file1')
del f
raw_input('pause')

### the file IS closed


def foo():
    f = file('file1')

foo()
raw_input('pause')

### the file IS closed



can you explain to me how the file gets closed?  i'm sure that garbage
collection hasn't happed at the point that i call raw_input.  it must have
something to do with the reference count of the file object.  does python
immediately call close for you when the reference count goes to zero?  i
want the dirty details...

thanks,

bryan





From exarkun at twistedmatrix.com  Wed Jul  9 05:21:38 2003
From: exarkun at twistedmatrix.com (Jp Calderone)
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 05:21:38 -0400
Subject: Python Global Constant
In-Reply-To: <sf0be85f.042@testmail.peto.hu>
References: <sf0be85f.042@testmail.peto.hu>
Message-ID: <20030709092127.GA7500@intarweb.us>

On Wed, Jul 09, 2003 at 09:49:15AM +0200, Krisztian Kepes wrote:
> Hi !
> 
> I want to create an module and I want to use some Global Constant in it.
> How to I create an global constant in module what is accessable in from other modules ?

  Python does not have constant variables.  If you remove the "const " on
each of the two lines in your dirs module and use the equality test operator
("==") instead of the assignment operator ("="), your code should work.

  As a convention, variables which the author intends not to be changed are
often spelled entirely in capitals, e.g., CONST_DOWN.

> 
> like this example:
> 
> *** module dirs ***
> const Const_Up=1
> const Const_Down=1
> 
> *** module any ***
> import dirs;
> def CheckDir(Dir):
>   if Dir=dirs.Const_Up: xxx
> 

  Jp

-- 
        "I quite agree with you," said the Duchess; "and the moral of
that is -- Be what you would seem to be' -- or, if you'd like it put
more simply -- Never imagine yourself not to be otherwise than what it
might appear to others that what you were or might have been was not 
otherwise than what you had been would have appeared to them to be
otherwise.'"       -- Lewis Carrol, "Alice in Wonderland"




From ianb at colorstudy.com  Sat Jul 12 02:47:09 2003
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: 12 Jul 2003 01:47:09 -0500
Subject: The "intellectual property" misnomer
In-Reply-To: <slrnbgvals.q1.bignose-hates-spam@rose.localdomain.fake>
References: <mailman.1057978117.8939.python-list@python.org>
	 <slrnbgv1c7.q1.bignose-hates-spam@rose.localdomain.fake>
	 <mailman.1057987701.7845.python-list@python.org>
	 <slrnbgvals.q1.bignose-hates-spam@rose.localdomain.fake>
Message-ID: <1057992428.28467.89.camel@lothlorien>

On Sat, 2003-07-12 at 01:09, Ben Finney wrote:
> On 12 Jul 2003 00:27:49 -0500, Ian Bicking wrote:
> > Functionally, though, I think the term intellectual property here
> > works.
> 
> Only by accepting the fallacy that there is a meaning to the term
> "intellectual property".  There is no such thing -- not in law, not in
> reality.

While I agree with your dislike of the term, intellectual property
*does* mean something -- it is a category of legal rights, several of
which potentially apply to Python.  The rights are diverse, but they
have been categorized in this way, and that categorization does apply
and convey the correct meaning.  To the degree those rights apply to
Python, they are held by PSF.

Just because a term is not specific does not mean it is meaningful. 
Intellectual property is similar to a term like mammal or sea creature
-- it's a category.

  Ian






From ferrell at diablotech.com  Tue Jul 29 11:21:41 2003
From: ferrell at diablotech.com (Robert Ferrell)
Date: 29 Jul 2003 08:21:41 -0700
Subject: Factories in Python
Message-ID: <73b00f0c.0307290721.7a19e3d0@posting.google.com>

I'm wondering how Python cognoscenti use/implement factory patterns in
Python.  In my limited C++ experience, one reason to use a factory
method is to make it easier to create instances of classes derived off
a base class.  The instance is declared to be an instance of the base
class.  The factory returns an instance of a derived class, and
everything is groovy.  In Python, since type declarations need not be
static, it seems there is no need to have a factory method.

However, I'm guessing that I'm not understanding other benefits of
using factories in Python.  Does anybody have examples or pointers on
how use of factories in Python?

thanks
-robert



From creedy at mitretek.org  Mon Jul 14 13:17:03 2003
From: creedy at mitretek.org (Chris Reedy)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 13:17:03 -0400
Subject: Python Mystery Theatre -- Episode 1:  Exceptions
In-Reply-To: <UiOPa.3259$Y92.1224@nwrdny01.gnilink.net>
References: <UiOPa.3259$Y92.1224@nwrdny01.gnilink.net>
Message-ID: <3f12e5bc$1_2@corp-news.newsgroups.com>

Ok. I'll give this a try. For reference, I fall into the class of users 
who have read the docs more than once. (I also have been a college 
professor at one point in my career.)

   Chris

P.S. I've already read other peoples answers; but, I'll try not to let 
that affect mine too much.

Raymond Hettinger wrote:
> ACT I ---------------------------------------
> 
>>>>s = list('abc')
>>>>try:
> 
> ...     result = s['a']
> ... except IndexError, TypeError:
> ...     print 'Not found'
> ...
> 
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<pyshell#11>", line 2, in -toplevel-
>     result = s['a']
> TypeError: list indices must be integers

I didn't have to think about this one. It comes up often enough on 
c.l.py and I've been personally bitten by it as well.

The first question that struck me is why the user was trying to use a 
string index on a list. Two possible answers: (1) This was included by 
Raymond just to trigger the exception. (2) The individual is actually 
confused about the differences between lists and dictionaries and was 
expecting something like this to happen:

 >>> s = list('abc')
 >>> s['a']
0

In the latter case, I don't have any blindingly obvious comment except 
to review the differences between lists and dictionaries.

The second question (the one I expect Raymond was really getting at) is 
why the TypeError was not caught. The answer is that:

except IndexError, TypeError:

is syntactically the same as:

except IndexError, foo:

that is that the variable TypeError is created as a new local variable 
which is assigned the exception that was raised, the same as what you 
expected to happen when you used foo instead. The fix is:

except (IndexError, TypeError):

or maybe even to do:

except (IndexError, TypeError), foo:

to provide an additional visual clue as to exactly what is happening.

> ACT II --------------------------------------------
> 
>>>>class MyMistake(Exception):
> 
> ...     pass
> 
> 
>>>>try:
> 
> ...     raise MyMistake, 'try, try again'
> ... except MyMistake, msg:
> ...     print type(msg)
> ...
> 
> <type 'instance'>

I learned something on this one. (I had to try this one to confirm my 
suspicions.) The user is expecting this to print something like 
'MyMistake', or maybe something like:

  <class '__main__.MyMistake'>

The problem here is that Exception is an old-style class and type(x) 
when x is an instance of an old-style class is always 'instance'. What 
the user should do is:

     print msg.__class__

> ACT III --------------------------------------------
> 
>>>>class Prohibited(Exception):
> 
> ...     def __init__(self):
> ...         print 'This class of should never get initialized'
> ...
> 
>>>>raise Prohibited()
> 
> This class of should never get initialized
> 
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<pyshell#40>", line 1, in -toplevel-
>     raise Prohibited()
> Prohibited: <unprintable instance object>
> 
>>>>raise Prohibited
> 
> This class of should never get initialized
> 
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<pyshell#41>", line 1, in -toplevel-
>     raise Prohibited
> Prohibited: <unprintable instance object>

This one contains (at least) three issues that I could find.

1. The print statement 'This class should never get initialized', 
appears to be an attempt to write an abstract class. Unfortunately, this 
is not done properly. One problem here is that the Exception aspect of 
prohibited is not initialized. This is what causes the '<unprintable 
instance object>' behavior when instances of Prohibited are printed.

2. (After some experimenting on my part.) The phrase '<unprintable 
instance object>' is produced when the __str__ method applied to an 
exception when printing a traceback raises an exception. (I would assume 
that this is required to avoid problems with recursive exceptions.)

3. (I already knew this one.) The fact that 'raise Prohibited()' and 
'raise Prohibited' exhibit the same behavior is the result of the fact 
that raising an instance of a class will raise that instance, raising a 
class  will cause an instance of that class to be constructed and then 
raised.

> ACT IV -----------------------------------------------
> 
>>>>module = 'Root'
>>>>try:
> 
> ...     raise module + 'Error'
> ... except 'LeafError':
> ...     print 'Need leaves'
> ... except 'RootError':
> ...     print 'Need soil'
> ... except:
> ...     print 'Not sure what is needed'
> ...
> 
> Not sure what is needed

This one is easy. (I knew this already from my second reading of the 
documentation.) String exceptions are compared by object identity, that 
is when 'RootError' is theException, rather than when 'RootError' == the 
Exception, which is almost surely what the user was expecting. In 
general when the string is constructed, like in this example, it becomes 
very difficult no way to catch the exception.

If you want to throw string exceptions which are subsequently caught (I 
can't think of a reason for doing this as opposed to defining a subclass 
of Exception) you can try:

foo = 'My Error'
try:
     ...
     raise foo
except foo:
     print 'Foo caught'

which guarantees that the strings are identical.

Aside: (I wouldn't want to raise this to anyone who didn't already 
understand the above.) This example also reveals that funny aspect of 
the Python about the interpreter automatically interning strings that 
look like variable names. Thus, in the example, the string 'RootError' 
had to be constructed. If it was a literal, the example would have 
behaved as "expected".

> ACT V -----------------------------------------------
> 
>>>>try:
> 
> ...     raise KeyError('Cannot find key')
> ... except LookupError, msg:
> ...     print 'Lookup:', msg
> ... except OverflowError, msg:
> ...     print 'Overflow:', msg
> ... except KeyError, msg:
> ...     print 'Key:', msg
> 
> 
> Lookup: 'Cannot find key'

(I had to confirm my guess on this one.) KeyError is a sub-class of 
LookupError. So the except LookupError clause caught the exception 
before the except KeyError clause was even checked. If you want to catch 
both KeyError and LookupError in the same set of exceptions (which in my 
mind is a questionable proposition), you would do:

     except KeyError, msg:
         ...
     except LookupError, msg:
         ...

Since the except clauses are processed serially, this would cause the 
check for KeyError to occur before the one for LookupError.




From tim.one at comcast.net  Tue Jul 29 18:06:47 2003
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 18:06:47 -0400
Subject: bisect uses __cmp__()?
In-Reply-To: <BB4C4BDA.2ADD4%grobinson@transpose.com>
Message-ID: <BIEJKCLHCIOIHAGOKOLHOEMOGHAA.tim.one@comcast.net>

[Gary Robinson]
> I'm wondering if bisect.insort is guaranteed to use a __cmp__ method,
> for now and for future python versions, if it exists, for the items
> being inserted?

Well, it doesn't use __cmp__ directly now, and never has:  it uses Python's
infix "<" operator.  While not documented, it's deliberate that bisect
*only* uses "<", so that instances of a class implementing only __lt__ can
use bisect.  This is the same (also undocumented) rule used in CPython's
list.sort() implementation.  Similarly, list.index(object) uses only "==",
so that instances of classes defining only __cmp__ or only __eq__ work fine.
Ditto for dict key lookups.

> That would be good to know because then you don't have to define
> __lt__ etc. if all you care about is being able to use bisect.insort.

Or, it so happens, you can define only __lt__, and skip defining __cmp__
etc.  Defining only __cmp__ works too.

> If true, I suggest that it might be good to mention the bisect
> library docs. In any case, if there is a clear answer to my question
> I'd appreciate knowing what it is...

You never have to define __lt__ (to use bisect or anything else in the core
distribution).  There may be a good performance to reason to define __lt__
instead of __cmp__, though, if some type can implement __lt__ more
efficiently than it can implement __cmp__.  I think that's rare.  More
common is that __eq__/__ne__ can be implemented more efficiently.





From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Fri Jul  4 14:55:43 2003
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 4 Jul 2003 14:55:43 -0400
Subject: pyBoards.com
References: <191e20c8.0307031711.42d4e46b@posting.google.com> <3f054d9a$0$13803$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net> <840592e1.0307040900.14e3e668@posting.google.com> <3F05C39D.3F65B89C@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <be4ijf$oj2$1@panix3.panix.com>

In article <3F05C39D.3F65B89C at engcorp.com>,
Peter Hansen  <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:
>
>Google Groups likely takes its feed directly of a Usenet site, and Usenet
>in general suffers from large propagation delay.  It is that delay, caused
>by messages filtering slowly across the Usenet network, which leads to the
>"5 answers" problem, not Google Groups itself.

Actually, Google uses at least two or three feeds (including
stanford.edu, which has a super-competent news admin), and Usenet
propagation is actually little short of e-mail speeds these days,
depending on where you're located.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

Usenet is not a democracy.  It is a weird cross between an anarchy and a
dictatorship.  



From rreagan at attbi.com  Sun Jul  6 23:27:04 2003
From: rreagan at attbi.com (Russell Reagan)
Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 03:27:04 GMT
Subject: A story about Python... sort of
References: <3f03f430$0$97222$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk> <mailman.1057259346.26179.python-list@python.org> <Yg3Na.97773$R73.11565@sccrnsc04> <mailman.1057533613.9015.python-list@python.org> <yw4Oa.22149$Ey6.10815@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net> <slrnbghmk2.8cj.bignose-hates-spam@zeus.zipworld.com.au>
Message-ID: <cM5Oa.22507$Ey6.11166@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net>

I didn't investigate the python chess program a great deal, since I'm still
learning the language, but it is very likely that it wasn't an efficient
implementation. It takes years to learn how a chess program works, and to
learn all of the tricks you can do to speed things up (and even then you
have to have the programming skill to implement those things).

I agree that it is not good to worry about optimization prematurely, but
computer chess might be a bit of a unique area. Computer chess is the most
heavily researched area of artificial intelligence ever, and as such, there
are tons of "standard" low level tricks or data representations that you can
use to your advantage. For instance, you can use board representation A and
get thing B for "free" (B might be fast attack detection, or the ability to
evaluate some complex aspect of a position quickly). When designing a chess
engine, you have to decide what you want to do, then use the data
representation that gives you the most things you want to do for "free".

This is also why OOP might not be of much use for chess programming. The
goal of OOP is to write correct code by being able to more easily make
modifications to the code by data hiding, writing generalized routines, etc.
Computer chess is so heavily researched, that there are several "standard"
board representations that people use, and they're low level, involving lots
of bit fiddling. Making a board object that doesn't know how a piece object
is implemented serves little purpose other than to slow things down. Part of
a fast chess program is that every part knows how everything else is
implemented, and exploiting that. I'm not discounting anything you said. I'm
just saying that computer chess may be one of the few areas where the
generally good advice doesn't always apply, due to the ridiculous amount of
research. Heck, computer chess was being researched before computers even
existed!

>   - Write a program that does the job at all, paying attention to
>     simplicity and readability and *no* attention to optimisation.

In general, this is good advice, but for reasons explained above, paying no
attention to optimization might be the equivalent of choosing a bad design
for this specific problem. By not paying any attention to efficiency early
on, you effectively limit your top speed later on.

>   - Once the program is correct, and not before, profile it to see where
>     it's slow.

Since computer chess is so heavily researched, I can tell you that the area
consuming the biggest chunk of time will be position evaluation, unless your
program doesn't use a lot of the well known tricks for things like attack
detection, in which case it might spend a ton of time doing that, ensuring
that a move doesn't leave your king in check, that kind of stuff. There is
really not a lot you can do to improve either of those short of starting
over from scratch and creating your data structures in such a way as to
exploit lots of low level tricks.

> at least you've debugged a working algorithm,
> and can treat it as pseudocode for the port to C.

For reasons explained above, I'm not sure that you can make the direct
translation between "python pseudocode" to "C/C++". It sounds like you're
thinking, "I'll just implement this python program in C/C++, and then it
will be faster," but I'm not sure that is the case. Sure it will be faster,
but probably still pretty slow. Making a really fast chess program would
require changing the data structures significantly, and I'm not sure what
use the python code would be after you made a big overhaul of the data
representations.

What do you think? I may be way off. Maybe I'm putting too much emphasis on
speed.





From gh at ghaering.de  Tue Jul 22 17:16:06 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 23:16:06 +0200
Subject: Zlib problem on Windows XP??
In-Reply-To: <F68BA8D3-BC82-11D7-8ACF-000393CB1C86@tulane.edu>
References: <F68BA8D3-BC82-11D7-8ACF-000393CB1C86@tulane.edu>
Message-ID: <3F1DA996.9050500@ghaering.de>

Kevin Ollivier wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> When using the latest Python 2.2.x releases as well as the Python 2.3 
> betas and rc1 on Win XP, I cannot import zlib. When I try, I get an 
> error about the dynamic module not having an 'initzlib' symbol. The 
> strange thing is that this problem seems to be XP-specific - on Windows 
> 2K I do not get this error. I've installed Python 2.2.3 on two XP 
> machines with the same results. I installed the latest beta on one of 
> the machines, but the results were the same. (Haven't tried RC1 yet.) [...]

I cannot confirm this. Windows XP Professional SP 1 (English):

- Python 2.3b2 works
- Python 2.3c1 works

-- Gerhard




From rastm2 at aol.commorespam  Tue Jul 22 04:52:03 2003
From: rastm2 at aol.commorespam (Raymond Arthur St. Marie II of III )
Date: 22 Jul 2003 08:52:03 GMT
Subject: Stopping a loop with user input. in curses
References: <pan.2003.07.21.04.47.34.434712@antispam.com>
Message-ID: <20030722045203.23831.00000293@mb-m27.aol.com>

ALEX wrote

>Hello Ray,
>
>After trying the code, I got the same problem...

Ray says>> not really the same problem.
Last time you couldn't stop the function.
This time you couldn't get it to display with out a key press.
You see that right? : )

>...which prompted me to
>post to the newsgroup. The clock would properly display but it
>wouldn't update every second. If I hit the up-arrow key (or any
>other key besides 'q'), 

Ray says>> But did it quit or close when you would hit 'q',  
just curious.
 wait I know it did 'cuz' it does now - stupid question.Sorry.

>the program would then update the time. I
>would have to continuously hit a key to get the clock to update
>every second.

Ray says>> Good to know because the
only curses I get to work with are the 
ones I use when I am having a frusrtating
problem like you were facing. : ) 

>
>I have a theory about programming in curses which I've described to
>yet another Ray [...]

Ray says >> Hi Alex  

You got your answer to the second part of the problem from-- 

From: "Dr. Peer Griebel" griebel at konzept-is.de

Credit where credit is due !

Thank you Doctor, and thank you Alex.
You both taught me that...

 if you don't HAVE half the answer then you don't haLve the answer.

Get it. 
have 
cut in halves by a big L---ooser --> me.
little pun there      sorry
i will shut up now.

No wait a minute Yes
Yes if you don't haLve the answer then
keep breaking it down till ya do.
Thats it              I think

Ray St. Marie 
Rastm2 at aol.com 
HA =  Half Answer (problem???)
L    = link
VE = Very Easy
I'm hurting my self.
In Python there are no real problems, are there?? Just bad posts! 



From grante at visi.com  Thu Jul 24 10:35:38 2003
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 24 Jul 2003 14:35:38 GMT
Subject: How to do raw Ethernet under Win32?
References: <3f1ed31a$0$181$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <3f1ee77f$0$160$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com> <mailman.1058996376.9482.python-list@python.org> <slrnbhung3.180.grante@localhost.localdomain> <mailman.1059034598.31317.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3f1feeba$0$169$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>

In article <mailman.1059034598.31317.python-list at python.org>, Gerhard H?ring wrote:
> Grant Edwards wrote:
>> In article <mailman.1058996376.9482.python-list at python.org>, Gerhard H?ring wrote:
>> 
>>>>It looks like I can _almost_ do what I want with the python
>>>>wrapper around the windows pcap lib.
>>>
>>>Where's PyLibpCap for Windows available?
>> 
>> Here's where I got it from:
>> 
>>   http://ghaering.de/python/unsupported/pylibpcap/  ;)
>> 
>> I'd take a whack at finishing it, but I don't have a Windows C compiler.
> 
> The guy you got this from used MINGW, the free GNU compiler for Windows 
> to do the original port:
> 
> http://mingw.sourceforge.net/
> 
>:)

Cool!  Be sure to thank him for the work if you see him.

I've never done any SWIG stuff before, but it looks like all I
have to do is add some stuff to the .i file to export the
pcap_sendpacket() function.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  I LIKE Aisle 7a.
                                  at               
                               visi.com            



From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Mon Jul  7 12:27:12 2003
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 11:27:12 -0500
Subject: anything new on the ternary operator?
In-Reply-To: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCKEIAENAB.tim.one@comcast.net> ("Tim
 Peters"'s message of "Mon, 7 Jul 2003 00:41:27 -0400")
References: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCKEIAENAB.tim.one@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <m24r1yl2u7.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

>>>>> "Tim" == Tim Peters <tim.one at comcast.net> writes:

    Tim> There were many creative interpretations of the vote counts,
    Tim> but none of them showed the consensus Guido said at the start
    Tim> would be needed for adoption.

Perhaps there is a lesson for the next time a vote count comes around.
Although there wasn't a consensus on the syntactical form of a ternary
operator, there may be a consensus for the existence of one.  This
suggests a runoff step is needed

Vote 1

  0)   choice 0
  1)   choice 1
  ...
  N-1) choice N-1
  N) No ternary operator

Vote 2 if sum(votes[:N])>votes[-1]

  0) winner of vote 1
  1) No ternary operator

I suspect many of not most of those who voted for some syntax of
ternary operator would prefer the first choice of the vote rather than
no choice, even if their pet candidate didn't win.  Perhaps the python
community couldn't stand being dragged through a 2-tiered voting
procedure, but it looks like a fairer test.

John Hunter




From anton at vredegoor.doge.nl  Tue Jul 29 06:20:50 2003
From: anton at vredegoor.doge.nl (Anton Vredegoor)
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 12:20:50 +0200
Subject: Papers on Python
References: <8b36138c.0307281644.f6569ea@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bg5htl$b2h$1@news.hccnet.nl>

rick_hunter357 at hotmail.com (Rick) wrote:

>PS. Before someone starts on how college kids are using the internet
>(or the help available on the 'net) to do the work for them, No I am
>not cheating. The actual assignment is to select 9 papers that you
>find interesting and write a report on each of them. I already have my
>9 papers selected. Now I want to know if I would like to replace some
>from my collection.

Why not take 9 threads in this newsgroup or the Python developers
mailing list and write a report on that? Of course you'd have to
convince your teacher somehow that this is the way things work
nowadays and that the days where a single author wrote a monolithic
paper are gone. 

Knowledge production and decision making are much more interactive and
hands-on than before, and discussions involve a lot more people of
varying degrees of expertise and having a more diverse background.

If it makes any difference: I would love to see some threads reviewed,
especially threads that have had some time to cool down and that can
be viewed from some distance now. Post the result of your assignment
here, you'll get free error checking this way and at the same time you
prove that the system works by interacting with it. Isn't it Pythonic
:-)

Anton.




From mcfletch at rogers.com  Sun Jul  6 18:18:20 2003
From: mcfletch at rogers.com (Mike C. Fletcher)
Date: Sun, 06 Jul 2003 18:18:20 -0400
Subject: Search for mapping solution
In-Reply-To: <bea0fe$2otcq$1@ID-47851.news.dfncis.de>
References: <be9t66$2otne$1@ID-47851.news.dfncis.de> <be9tnh$59n$03$1@news.t-online.com> <bea0fe$2otcq$1@ID-47851.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <3F08A02C.4010405@rogers.com>

Since you know the indices, you can just do this:

for record in lines:
    costs[record[nameIndex]] = 
costs.setdefault(record[nameIndex],0)+float(record[priceIndex])

Enjoy,
Mike

Markus Joschko wrote:

>>lines = [['fred','333','0.10'],['sam','444','1'],['fred','333','0.50']]
>>costs = {}
>>for name,number,price in lines:
>>    costs[name] = costs.setdefault(name,0)+float(price)
>>print costs
>>
>>    
>>
>thanks it works. But maybe I can complicate the example a little bit
>(because in real world it's more complicated):
>
>What if I every list in lines has 20 or more entries and I have only the
>index number to access the name, e.g.
>
>lines = [['elem1','elem2','fred','elem3',.......;'elem
>17','333','elem18','0.10'],[...],[...]]
>
>
>what I want to say: I can't be sure that the name is always on the third
>position. That's dynamic. I know it before I parse the list, but 
>I can't say 
>
>for elem1,elem2,name,.... cause it can also be
>
>for elem1,name,elem3 ....
>
>
>Thanks for the answer,
>        Markus
>  
>
_______________________________________
  Mike C. Fletcher
  Designer, VR Plumber, Coder
  http://members.rogers.com/mcfletch/







From ben at dadsetan.com  Thu Jul 31 17:54:48 2003
From: ben at dadsetan.com (Behrang Dadsetan)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 23:54:48 +0200
Subject: handle <BR> tags
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1059657185.26996.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1059657185.26996.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bgc3ad$o57$1@online.de>

Luca Calderano wrote:
> Hi guys...
> 
> I've done a subclass of SGMLParser 
> to handle the contents of a web page,
> but i'm not able to handle the <BR> tag
> 
> can someone help me???
> 
>       S.G.A S.p.A.
> Nucleo Sistemi Informativi
>      Luca Calderano
> 
> 
I do not know SGMLParser.. but HTML is not SGML nor any subset. It is 
some ill language which one even rarely finds "pure" (written in the way 
the spec says it MUST be)

I believe SGML does not like none closing tags. BR is one of the many 
none closing tags in HTML (also look at IMG or HR)

Depending on what you are doing you should maybe use XHTML as an input 
if you can (XML well-formed HTML, XML being a subset of SGML) or you 
should probably look for a completely different parser "technology". 
Maybe HTMLParser will help you a little more.

Do not forget, random downloaded HTML from Internet is often broken.
You might rather want to use tidylib (corrects broken HTML code into 
XHTML) and a XHTML/SGML parser or a DOM.

Hope it helps even though the effort I took to check my statements was 
small :)

Regards,
Ben.




From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Thu Jul  3 12:41:02 2003
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 11:41:02 -0500
Subject: getting a submatrix of all true
In-Reply-To: <be0b84$89a$0@216.39.172.122> (bokr@oz.net's message of "3 Jul
 2003 04:25:40 GMT")
References: <mailman.1057173484.29754.python-list@python.org>
	<be0b84$89a$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <m2vfujsgv5.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

>>>>> "Bengt" == Bengt Richter <bokr at oz.net> writes:


    Bengt> If I understand your original optimality definition, that
    Bengt> would be suboptimal.  I.e., how about the 16-element
    Bengt> matrix? (x's mark the corresponding zeroes)

    Bengt> Or do they have to be adjacent?

No, in general they won't be. I missed that one. Just goes to show
that my "solution" is not one, which I knew.  But it does efficiently
deliver good solutions, where good means large but not optimal.

    Bengt> Brute force seems to work on this little example. Maybe it
    Bengt> can be memoized and optimized and/or whatever to handle
    Bengt> your larger matrix fast enough?

Thanks for the example.  Unfortunately, it is too slow even for
moderate size matrices (30,10).  I've been running it for over two
hours for a 30x10 matrix and it hasn't finished.  And my data are
1000x100!

Here is a little code to generate larger matrices for testing....

    from Numeric import zeros, array, Int, put, reshape
    from RandomArray import uniform

    numRows, numCols = 30,10
    numMissing = int(0.05*numRows*numCols) # 5% missing

    X = zeros( (300,))
    ind = uniform(0, numRows*numCols, (numMissing,)).astype(Int)

    put(X,ind,1)
    X = reshape(X, (numRows,numCols))

    # turn it into a list for your code....
    X = [ [val for val in row] for row in X]
    for row in X: print row

Last night, I began to formulate the problem as a logic statement,
hoping this would give me an idea of how to proceed.  But no progress
yet.  But I have come to the conclusion that with P ones, brute force
requires 2^P combinations.  With 1000x100 with 5% missing that gives
me 2^5000.  Not good.  

Thanks for your suggestion, though.  If you have any more thoughts,
let me know.

John Hunter







From jlh at cox.net  Thu Jul 10 23:18:53 2003
From: jlh at cox.net (Jeff Hinrichs)
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 03:18:53 GMT
Subject: Deleting specific characters from a string
References: <mailman.1057865895.31949.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <x0qPa.6909$o86.5112@news1.central.cox.net>

First off, (holding hat in hand), I reread the profile module and then set
my profiler up correctly with the proper bias setting. Things have changed
but only slightly.  Duncan Booth's maketrans/translate is edging out the
stringReplace for first place in speed.  Looks to be with in the margin of
error for timing on my windows platform.

I am rerunning the entire test suite with the profiler set up correctly.  I
am also throwing Paul Rubin's RegEx entry in to the race as well.  I've got
a web page going together now with all the mind numbing details.  The short
story is that Duncan's suggestion of maketrans/translate looks like it will
pull ahead when the number of substitutions increase beyond some number N.
Right now, I don't know what N is going to be.

In terms of the OP's original request for replacing 2 chars, Duncan's and
stringReplace are dead even.  With my vote going for stringReplace.  +0

I'll post the url when it's complete along with my test harness and the code
for everyone to pick apart.  If I've made mistakes I would appreciate
anyones assistance in pointing them out.  Personally, I'm using this as a
chance to beef up my profiling knowledge.

more to follow,
Jeff Hinrichs





From danb_83 at yahoo.com  Thu Jul 10 19:33:13 2003
From: danb_83 at yahoo.com (Dan Bishop)
Date: 10 Jul 2003 16:33:13 -0700
Subject: keep original date and time of unzipped files
References: <hjfPa.26867$FN3.2232703@news.ono.com>
Message-ID: <ad052e5c.0307101533.90c087d@posting.google.com>

"Bartolom? Sintes Marco" <BartolomeSintes at ono.com> wrote in message news:<hjfPa.26867$FN3.2232703 at news.ono.com>...
> Hi,
> 
> In this mail,
> http://www.mail-archive.com/kragen-hacks at canonical.org/msg00030.html
> Kragen Sitaker explained how to unzip a file in Python
...
> The unzipped files date and time are not the original ones, but
> when the unzipping is done. Is there a way to keep the
> original files date and time?

You can change a file's date and time with

os.utime(filename, (accessTime, modificationTime))



From tomas at fancy.org  Mon Jul 14 19:44:09 2003
From: tomas at fancy.org (Tom Plunket)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 16:44:09 -0700
Subject: anything like C++ references?
References: <13t0hvsb7idh0g6ac3upe5k0qd6flc17ah@4ax.com> <c9d82136.0307122236.1b72425e@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3qf6hvcl1j48rnt3m74av0on4ftvd07upd@4ax.com>

Noah wrote:

> As others have explained, you just return the value.
> It's just a different point of view. Instead of
>     change (v)
> you have:
>     v = change (v)

Ahh, now I remember what I wanted to do, and you're right- it's
more verbose and didn't really seem to add anything.  I wanted to
in-place clamp integers in a range, or maybe they were even
member variables;

def Color:
   def SomeOperation():
      # modify self.r, g, b
      self.r = clamp(self.r, 0, 255)
      self.g = clamp(self.g, 0, 255)
      self.b = clamp(self.b, 0, 255)

...that was just more typing than I wanted at that point,
although I'm sure that the keystrokes I burned were more than
made up for by Python's allowing me to do:

   def clamp(val, lowVal, highVal):
      if (lowVal <= val <= highVal):
         return val

:)

-tom!



From dmbkiwi at yahoo.com  Fri Jul 11 19:16:12 2003
From: dmbkiwi at yahoo.com (dmbkiwi)
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 11:16:12 +1200
Subject: Python - if/else statements
References: <pan.2003.07.11.19.34.16.330762@yahoo.com> <ben6uf$tcr$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <pan.2003.07.11.23.16.08.781512@yahoo.com>

On Fri, 11 Jul 2003 20:33:19 +0000, Bengt Richter wrote:

> On Sat, 12 Jul 2003 07:34:18 +1200, dmbkiwi <dmbkiwi at yahoo.com> wrote:
> 

<snip>
Thanks for helping me with this.


>>def meterClicked(widget, meter, button):
>>	#print "meterclick"
>>	global dayshow, daypicrem, ddon, ddcon, buttonpressed
> # these globals -- where do they come from? What module? # Note that each
> module has its own globals, so is are there different modules # that think
> they're sharing globals but really aren't? There are ways to solve that, #
> but first, is that relevant?

They don't come from a module, they come from different functions within
the script.  To be honest, I don't think I've ever quite understood
globals, so I insert them where I think they should go - probably quite
incorrecly.  Will this matter?
 
> 
> # Second, are the globals accessible from multiple threads? Are you seeing
> hard-stuck errors or blue-moon errors?

Now my newbiness will be evident.  Multiple threads?  I am not consciously
creating threads.  Should I?  Does python automatically create multiple
threads?  What are hard-stuck/blue-moon errors?

> 
>>	if (meter == mainpic) and (button == 1):
> 		# always here?
		# yes
>>		if ddcon == 0:
> 			# and here ?
			# yes
>>			if ddon == 1:
> 				# and here?
				# no
>>				deleteDayDetail(widget, dayshow)
>>				karamba.redrawWidget(widget)
>>			createCurrentDetail(widget)
>>			karamba.redrawWidget(widget)
>>		else:
> 			# never here, you're saying, right?
			# always here
> 			# <snip>
>>	else:
> 		# never here either, right?
		always here
> 		# <snip>
> 	# get here though?
	# yes
>>	buttonpressed = 1
>>
> I used tabs above to line up (maybe ;-) with your text, but maybe you
> should run your code through tabnanny or something to check for consistent
> usage. I never use tabs (though I use the tab key and gvim puts in 4 space

Tabs seem to be fine in the actual code - I think it's the word wrapping
in either your/my newsreader that is causing problems, but your tab
positioning is correct.

> indentation for me ;-) so I haven't used the tab checkers, but you might
> benefit, perhaps.

I'm using kate here under KDE/linux.  It has syntax highlighting for python, and
seems to deal with tabs nicely.
> 
>>What these users are experiencing is that this portion of code is being
>>processed, and evaluating all if statements as true, however, as you can
>>see, they cannot all be true each time this function is called.  Their
>>versions of python also ignore the else construct.
>>
>>Can anyone shed any light on what might be going on with these users?
>>
> I'd check on the globals and threading issues first. Then see about
> building a mousetrap.

Why would these affect the interpretation of the if/else.  Seems to me,
that if the if statement evaluates to true, then the else statement should be
ignored.  However, it appears that for these users, python is just
ploughing right on through, and running the else statement also.  Or am I
missing something.  What is a mousetrap?

Any further help would be greatly appreciated.

> 
> Regards,
> Bengt Richter

-- 
Regards
Matt

Everyone is more or less mad on one point.
		-- Rudyard Kipling




From tzot at sil-tec.gr  Tue Jul 22 04:53:54 2003
From: tzot at sil-tec.gr (TZOTZIOY remotely)
Date: 22 Jul 2003 01:53:54 -0700
Subject: [OT] On the TimBot
References: <62slgvsljos7v5snie6toc4qucv5nt1n15@4ax.com> <cf052f0d.0307210704.3f0b052c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <f3cf8593.0307220053.1a6f2603@posting.google.com>

oren at REMOVETHIS1.hishome.net (Oren Tirosh) wrote in message news:<cf052f0d.0307210704.3f0b052c at posting.google.com>...
> 
> Henry Spencer is well known around the sci.space.* newsgroups for
> being very rarely wrong. About as rarely as the TimBot. People that
> manage to correct Henry get the coveted "I Corrected Henry" virtual
> T-shirt.
> 
> May I propose the "I Corrected Timbot" award?

A great idea, a la "I got the babelfish".  Great line for a signature
too... if you can take the heat afterwards :)



From abelikov72 at hotmail.com  Thu Jul 10 15:13:47 2003
From: abelikov72 at hotmail.com (Afanasiy)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 19:13:47 GMT
Subject: Embedding Python, threading and scalability
References: <20E0F651F8B82F45ABCBACC58A2D995B0518AD@mexper1> <mailman.1057809015.26295.python-list@python.org> <1057814773.188737@yasure>
Message-ID: <7kergv8u1q5oib600e4ino24tf9fioo2gc@4ax.com>

On Thu, 10 Jul 2003 05:26:14 -0000, "Donn Cave" <donn at drizzle.com> wrote:

>Quoth Jeff Epler <jepler at unpythonic.net>:

>At any rate, it sure isn't because Guido can't scare up an SMP machine.

Is this the absolute truth or just something people like to say?

If it is true I am very surprised... I think getting Guido an SMP
machine will not be very difficult, and could well be very cheap.




From kylotan at hotmail.com  Wed Jul  9 05:41:46 2003
From: kylotan at hotmail.com (Kylotan)
Date: 9 Jul 2003 02:41:46 -0700
Subject: urllib2 for HTTPS/SSL
References: <153fa67.0307080233.2f7abdf5@posting.google.com> <cb035744.0307081242.44bc2997@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <153fa67.0307090141.67061a69@posting.google.com>

hwlgw at hotmail.com (Will Stuyvesant) wrote in message news:<cb035744.0307081242.44bc2997 at posting.google.com>...
> > [Kylotan]
> > ........................Is there any chance of the official
> > documentation on this useful-looking module being improved?
> 
> It is one of the biggest problems with Python that not enough people
> like to write good documentation about how to use the Python Standard
> Library.

It's a shame about the documentation, but then this stuff is generally
provided for free and so I think we're all grateful that it exists at
all, documented or not. :)  Maybe it would be beneficial for the
official online documentation to allow users to add annotations in
much the same way that the PHP and SDL docs do? Then not only people
can get more use out of the docs, but the official maintainers of each
module can easily see about integrating any useful errata or examples
into their source documentation.

K.



From stark7 at sbcglobal.net  Thu Jul 24 16:53:33 2003
From: stark7 at sbcglobal.net (David Stark)
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 20:53:33 GMT
Subject: Tkinter and Mac OS X
Message-ID: <BB45937A.7EE7%stark7@sbcglobal.net>

I have Mac OS 10.2 which ships with python.  I downloaded TclTkAqua from
ActiveState and installed it.  Then I get:

>>> import Tkinter
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
  File "/usr/lib/python2.2/lib-tk/Tkinter.py", line 35, in ?
    import _tkinter # If this fails your Python may not be configured for Tk
ImportError: No module named _tkinter
>>> 

After digging around on www.python.org I get the impression that I have to
download the source and do my own build.  Do I really have to go through
this?  Is the OS X distribution of python different (for a reason)?





From adalke at mindspring.com  Fri Jul 18 04:04:19 2003
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 02:04:19 -0600
Subject: OT: Genetic Algorithm Recipe Bug Fix
References: <JwYMa.5801$eF3.719843@news20.bellglobal.com> <beh8ad$dm0$1@news.hccnet.nl> <mailman.1057764616.4199.python-list@python.org> <bf5s6m$occ$1@news.hccnet.nl>
Message-ID: <bf89es$5hd$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net>

Anton Vredegoor:
> Anyway it seems to be possible to solve a maximum clique problem like
> this:

I haven't followed the thread, just pinged on 'maximum clique problem.'

Does this help?
  http://starship.python.net/crew/dalke/clique/

It's code I wrote years ago.  Don't ask me any more questions about
it .... unless you want to pay me for it.  :)

                    Andrew
                    dalke at dalkescientific.com





From Mike at kordik.net  Fri Jul  4 18:37:48 2003
From: Mike at kordik.net (Mike)
Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 22:37:48 GMT
Subject: RTS/CTS and DTR/DTS control
References: <pan.2003.07.04.19.37.02.310028@kordik.net>
Message-ID: <pan.2003.07.04.23.44.30.894302@kordik.net>

I am running Linux, Python 2.2.2. It would be nice (not mandatory) 
to be cross platform though.

Thanks,
Mike

On Fri, 04 Jul 2003 18:30:11 +0000, Mike wrote:

> Is there a library in Python that will give me control over the
> handshaking lines directly?
> 
> Thanks




From antonmuhin.REMOVE.ME.FOR.REAL.MAIL at rambler.ru  Wed Jul  2 07:37:33 2003
From: antonmuhin.REMOVE.ME.FOR.REAL.MAIL at rambler.ru (anton muhin)
Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 15:37:33 +0400
Subject: how to dynamically create a function object (from a code object)?
In-Reply-To: <X7oMa.366$4y6.92@read3.inet.fi>
References: <X7oMa.366$4y6.92@read3.inet.fi>
Message-ID: <bdug63$1crn$1@news.peterlink.ru>

Petri Savolainen wrote:
> After reading the manuals and googling around a bit, I thought I'd use 
> the 'compile' built-in to create a code object. Then, using either 
> new.function() or types.FunctionType(), create a function object out of 
> the code object. The function object can then be turned into a method 
> for example using types.MethodType(). Right? Well, on Windows 98, using 
> python 2.2.2 (or 2.3b2):
> 
>  >>> c=compile('def a(msg): return msg','<nowhere>','exec')
>  >>> f=types.FunctionType(c,globals(),'a')
>  >>> f
>  >>> <code object ? at 00F8A9E0, file "<nowhere>", line 1>
>  >>> f('hello')
> 
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<pyshell#136>", line 1, in -toplevel-
>     f('hello')
> TypeError: ?() takes no arguments (1 given)
> 
>  >>> f()
>  >>>
>  >>> a('hello')
>  >>> 'hello'
>  >>>
> 
> This is, well, not what I would have expected.
> 
> After peeking around in the code object, I found out its 'co_const' 
> instance variable also contains a code object - which, it seems, should 
> really be fed to the function creation methods:
> 
>  >>> c.co_consts
> (<code object a at 00F8A960, file "<nowhere>", line 1>, None)
>  >>> f=types.FunctionType(c.co_consts[0],globals(),'a')
>  >>> f('hello')
> 'hello'
>  >>>
> 
> Which is the behaviour I would have expected in the first place!
> 
> I would really like to know what I am doing wrong here, or any 
> clarification regarding what is going on above... I dare not hope having 
> found a bug :-P
> 
> Thanks,
> 
>  Petri
> 

Unfortunately, I didn't manage to do it the way you described above. But 
if you just want to create a function there is much simplier way:

def create_id():
	def _(s): return s
	return _

x = _()
x("xxx")

hth,
anton




From max at alcyone.com  Sat Jul  5 16:08:48 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Sat, 05 Jul 2003 13:08:48 -0700
Subject: Python's CGI and Javascripts uriEncode: A disconnect.
References: <m3smpqw0qf.fsf@drizzle.com> <2c60a528.0307051007.bc1c98b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3F073050.9F3E73B2@alcyone.com>

Andrew Clover wrote:

> This is part of the specification for the media type
> application/x-www-form-urlencoded, defined by HTML itself (section
> 17.13.4.1 of the 4.01 spec). This states that spaces should normally
> be encoded as '+', however really using '%20' is just as good and
> causes less confusion, so that's what newer browsers (and I) do.
> 
> Elsewhere, spaces should not be encoded as '+'.

Right.  As part of the query string, + for space is fine.  Elsewhere in
the URL, it is not.

> The reasoning for this initial decision is unclear - presumably it is
> intended to improve readability, but URIs with query parts are
> generally not going to be very readable anyway.

Well, an obvious reason would be that + is a perfectly legal character
in many filesystems, as is a space.

Actual spaces in URIs are illegal; they should be replaced with either
%20 or + (depending where in the URI they appear).  Probably he's
encountering frustrating bugs in some browsers where it doesn't bother
replacing spaces with the proper equivalent so that they will be
well-formed URIs.

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ Life imitates art far more than art imitates life.
\__/  Oscar Wilde



From jimmy at retzlaff.com  Sun Jul 13 17:45:45 2003
From: jimmy at retzlaff.com (Jimmy Retzlaff)
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 14:45:45 -0700
Subject: anything like C++ references?
Message-ID: <A7B5C22F20EE3C4E95744E2F03F1887F022094@MAYOR.retzlaff.com>

Stephen Horne wrote:
>...
>Of course, if you really believe that pointer/reference behaviour
>should be arbitrarily tied to mutability then you can claim that I am
>wrong, but you still can't claim the high ground as this is still an
>arbitrary and bizarre thing to do. The ability to change part or all
>of a value in-place has nothing to do with whether that value is
>referenced using a pointer or whatever in computer theory - any link
>between pointers/references and mutability should be related to the
>implementation of the language - not the semantics.
>...

Assignment, and therefore parameter passing, is entirely consistent
between mutable/immutable types. That is to say, assignment and
mutability are orthogonal and unrelated concepts in Python, just as you
suggest they should be. Perhaps some folks who only partially understand
Python's parameter passing semantics would be surprised by:

>>> def f(x):
... 	x = [4, 5, 6]
... 	
>>> a = [1, 2, 3]
>>> f(a)
>>> print a
[1, 2, 3]

Note that the assignment within f did not affect a in any way despite
the fact that a was an instance of a mutable type. It works exactly the
same way with a tuple.

With similar consistency you can call any method on an object passed as
a parameter. Where the distinction between mutable and immutable types
comes in is that there don't happen to be any methods of immutable
objects that actually modify the value of the object; mutable objects do
offer such methods. For example, tuples don't have "append" or "sort"
methods that modify the object's value in place, but lists do.

Now where some more of the assignment related confusion might come in is
with things like this:

>>> def f(x):
... 	x[0] = 10
... 	
>>> a = [1, 2, 3]
>>> f(a)
>>> print a
[10, 2, 3]

The body of f may look like it contains an assignment, but that's not
the typical name-binding that is referred to when discussing assignment
(or parameter passing) in Python. That is really just syntactic sugar
for calling a method of the parameter x, namely the __setitem__ method.
List objects are mutable and so, by definition, some methods like
__setitem__ will change their value. Tuples don't have __setitem__
methods so the above assignment in f won't work if you pass in a tuple.
Note that the same "assignment" outside of f wouldn't work for a tuple
either; this is a property of the tuple (i.e., it doesn't offer a
__setitem__ method), not of Python's parameter passing / assignment
semantics.

Jimmy




From tayss_temp at yahoo.com  Tue Jul 29 09:18:13 2003
From: tayss_temp at yahoo.com (Tayss)
Date: 29 Jul 2003 06:18:13 -0700
Subject: Static typing
References: <LvdUa.905$DU.696@fe12.atl2.webusenet.com> <3f218ef1$0$27926$626a54ce@news.free.fr> <3f219c8d$1@nntp0.pdx.net> <lWAUa.25680$Gw4.21886@fe06.atl2.webusenet.com> <3f23ae06$0$21093$626a54ce@news.free.fr> <5627c6fa.0307270537.1afc94d3@posting.google.com> <3f244c06$0$21113$626a54ce@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <5627c6fa.0307290518.58d844aa@posting.google.com>

In case I wasn't clear, you can say I'm against static typing in
Python.  I'm for purely optional typing, and I don't mind it in
docstrings (as a way for both humans and compilers to gain info).

I even like the fact you can add vars at runtime to objects, as well
as use the __slots__ declaration for safety.  A Ruby advocate listed
this as an unsafe failure of Python, but it's certainly interesting to
use objects as a dictionary with bite if nothing else.



From vivek at cs.unipune.ernet.in  Wed Jul  9 05:22:41 2003
From: vivek at cs.unipune.ernet.in (vivek at cs.unipune.ernet.in)
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 14:52:41 +0530
Subject: Application Development in Python
In-Reply-To: <3089454.1057738936@dbforums.com>; from ____indru_june@yahoo.com____ on Wed, Jul 09, 2003 at 08:22:16AM +0000
References: <3089454.1057738936@dbforums.com>
Message-ID: <20030709145241.A27673@cs.unipune.ernet.in>

On Wed, Jul 09, 2003 at 08:22:16AM +0000, indru wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> I am new to Python programming. I am from C,C++,Perl background. I am
> quite convinced by the possibilities python as a very high level
> language is offering. I am seriously thinking of using python in my
> project which is to create a accounting software. First thing came to my
> mind was C++ but the time required could be enormous and my people are
> not ready to wait that long. The project is a medium sized one but
> bigger than something like gnucash and KMyMoney2. Do any body have
> experience with application development using python and their
> experiences ?.   Also please advice me whether Python can be used for
> such purposes.
> Thanks in advance
> Indru

Yes you can use python for application development. I have created an 
application that generated various reports, certificates, interacts with 
database and provides a GUI, all in python :-). For GUI I used Tkinter 
but you can use any other library as per your choice. I haven't done any 
project like accounting package. But I am sure you can easily do that in 
python and in a very less time as compared to developing that in C++. 
Moreover you get os independent code free of cost with Python :-).

Regards
Vivek Kumar




From postmaster at bluetiger.com  Sun Jul 13 12:50:51 2003
From: postmaster at bluetiger.com (postmaster at bluetiger.com)
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 09:50:51 -0700
Subject: Delivery Status (Failure)
Message-ID: <E19bk3n-0007YZ-00@fowl.mail.pas.earthlink.net>

This is an automatically generated Delivery Failure Notification.

Delivery to the recipient failed. 
Status Code: 5.1.1 User Unknown

If you are trying to reach Blue, please send email to newaddress at bluetiger.com.







From mis6 at pitt.edu  Wed Jul 16 19:20:46 2003
From: mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato)
Date: 16 Jul 2003 16:20:46 -0700
Subject: Mix lambda and list comprehension?
References: <6f5b3f88.0307142302.1a1531f3@posting.google.com> <2259b0e2.0307150441.22921165@posting.google.com> <bf3pjm$gsl$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <2259b0e2.0307161520.9081514@posting.google.com>

bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) wrote in message news:<bf3pjm$gsl$0 at 216.39.172.122>...
> On 15 Jul 2003 05:41:02 -0700, mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato) wrote:
> 
> >peter.barth at t-online.de (Peter Barth) wrote in message news:<6f5b3f88.0307142302.1a1531f3 at posting.google.com>...
> >> Hi,
> >> trying to mix lambda expresions and list comprehension 
> >> doesn't seem to work.
> >> ---
> >> >>> [lambda x:x+y for y in range(10)][9](2)
>  11
> >> >>> [lambda x:x+y for y in range(10)][4](2)
> >> 11
> >> ---
> >> I expected the second expression to return 6.
> >> What did I do wrong? Any hints?
> >> Thanks
> >> - Peter
> >
> >It is a scope issue. The last value for y is used for all
> >the created lambdas. All lambdas users are bitten by that,
> >soon or later. The solution is to make y local to the
> >lambda function, with the optional argument trick:
> >
> >>>> [lambda x,y=y:x+y for y in range(10)][4](2)
> >6
> 
> or you could capture y as constants in the lambdas ;-)
> 
>  >>> [eval('lambda x:x+%s'%y) for y in range(10)][4](2)
>  6
> 
> 
> Regards,
> Bengt Richter

Thanks to God, there is a smile in your post!!

  ;)

       Michele



From theller at python.net  Thu Jul 24 15:55:46 2003
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 21:55:46 +0200
Subject: [ANN] py2exe 0.4.1 released
Message-ID: <el0flmwt.fsf@python.net>

py2exe is a distutils extension to convert python scripts into windows
exe-files (plus a few dlls), able to run on computers without requiring
a python installation.

New in release 0.4.1:

  Integrated support for dll and exe COM servers, contributed by Mark
  Hammond. Thanks!

  Much better modulefinder module from Python 2.3 included. The build
  process should now give a lot less warnings and better results.
  py2exe now is compatible with PyXML, for example.

  The support of Python 2.3 is still preliminary, and has to be improved.
  I intend to use the new zipimport feature instead of good old imputil.

  Thanks to Just van Rossum for his work on both the zipimport and the
  improved modulefinder.

Download from the usual location:
http://starship.python.net/crew/theller/py2exe/

Enjoy,

Thomas



From marc.engel at recif.com  Wed Jul 30 05:19:13 2003
From: marc.engel at recif.com (Marc ENGEL)
Date: 30 Jul 2003 02:19:13 -0700
Subject: pythoncom: STA python COM server randomly does not receive event from other objects : deadlock
Message-ID: <6411841c.0307300119.46bc0159@posting.google.com>

Hi all,

I coded a python COM object that runs in a pythonw local server as a
STA.

This object creates and advises a VC++ COM object to receive its
event. Those events are sent by worker threads.

The VC++ object is free threaded. As a consequence call between my STA
python object and apartment are marshalled through proxy.

The python COM object regularly calls a blocking method on the VC++
object to synchronize. But, as it is a cross apartment call, during
the call it can gets the event handler called thanks to the message
pump operated by COM.

But sometimes events are no received and it seems that I enter a
deadlock.
When I attach to the VC+ object, I can see that the thread that made
the Fire_XX is still waiting for the call to end.

Does somedy know the reason?

Does the COM message pump may be different from the pythoncom message
pump located in localserver.py : pythoncom.PumpMessages ?

Thanks in advance for any hint, because this is a very blocking issue
for my project.

Marc



From andreas.kuntzagk at mdc-berlin.de  Thu Jul 31 04:33:22 2003
From: andreas.kuntzagk at mdc-berlin.de (Andreas Kuntzagk)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 10:33:22 +0200
Subject: how to gunzip a string ?
References: <mailman.1059574664.10454.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bgakan$mk99j$1@uni-berlin.de>

On Wed, 30 Jul 2003 16:16:32 +0200, Bill Loren wrote:

> I guess I really need some sort of library that will do a gzip decoding to
> a compressed string.
> assume that I have a gzipped_string_reply I got from an HTTP server, It'd
> be superb to have a gunzip class that takes it and return its decoded
> equivalent.


You could put your string in an cStringIO:

c_string= cStringIO.StringIO(compressed_string)
gzip_handle=gzip.GzipFile(fileobj=c)
gzip_handle.read()

HtH, Andreas



From dave at pythonapocrypha.com  Wed Jul  2 18:18:22 2003
From: dave at pythonapocrypha.com (Dave Brueck)
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 15:18:22 -0700
Subject: Remote db connections possible with DCOracle2?
In-Reply-To: <16131.19186.190625.679324@montanaro.dyndns.org>
References: <16131.19186.190625.679324@montanaro.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <200307021518.22410.dave@pythonapocrypha.com>

On Wednesday 02 July 2003 02:13 pm, Skip Montanaro wrote:
> Connections to remote Oracle databases doesn't seem possible with
> DCOracle2. I have no problem making remote connections using Perl's
> DBI::Oracle package, so I know it's possible in theory.  Is this capability
> available in DCOracle2 but just not documented perhaps?

Actually, I've never used a _local_ database with DCOracle2, so it's very 
possible but, IMO, very underdocumented too. :)

Use this style of connection string (all one line if it wraps):

user/password@(description=(address=(host=10.20.30.40)(protocol=tcp)(port=1521))(connect_data=(sid=dbsid)))

(changing the values of user, password, 10.20.30.40, and dbsid of course).

-Dave




From Vincent.Raaijmakers at ge.com  Thu Jul 31 09:28:27 2003
From: Vincent.Raaijmakers at ge.com (Raaijmakers, Vincent (IndSys, GE Interlogix))
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 08:28:27 -0500
Subject: SQL2000 database vs python
Message-ID: <55939F05720D954E9602518B77F6127F02F46771@FTWMLVEM01.e2k.ad.ge.com>

You are THE man!!

Thanks.
Vincent

-----Original Message-----
From: Gerhard H?ring [mailto:gh at ghaering.de]
Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2003 8:53 AM
To: Raaijmakers, Vincent (IndSys, GE Interlogix)
Cc: python-list at python.org
Subject: Re: SQL2000 database vs python


Raaijmakers, Vincent (IndSys, GE Interlogix) wrote:
> Can someone tell me if there is a module out for using a sql2000 database within python?
> My python application (runs on Linux) already uses mysql but now I need also to talk to a sql2000 database on another machine.
> 
> Any suggestions? www.python.org, google couldn't help me.

http://www.object-craft.com.au/projects/mssql/

-- Gerhard




From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Wed Jul 16 10:41:24 2003
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 16 Jul 2003 10:41:24 -0400
Subject: Python Quiz
References: <84fc4588.0307152253.20858619@posting.google.com> <Xns93BA6E5A0FA08duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <bf3o6k$q00$1@panix2.panix.com>

In article <Xns93BA6E5A0FA08duncanrcpcouk at 127.0.0.1>,
Duncan Booth  <duncan at rcp.co.uk> wrote:
>
>On question 8, I'm not aware that Python borrowed anything from Java. 

Lib/threading.py, line 1
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

A: No.
Q: Is top-posting okay?



From mis6 at pitt.edu  Tue Jul 22 22:11:33 2003
From: mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato)
Date: 22 Jul 2003 19:11:33 -0700
Subject: feature request: a better str.endswith
References: <2259b0e2.0307180401.5dae02f2@posting.google.com> <mailman.1058530829.7072.python-list@python.org> <3f17f883$0$49107$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl> <2259b0e2.0307190529.57338b3f@posting.google.com> <NpkSa.16049$7O.14695@nwrdny01.gnilink.net> <2259b0e2.0307200721.16ef2ea1@posting.google.com> <45228044.0307210522.1ef95144@posting.google.com> <2259b0e2.0307210918.614892ba@posting.google.com> <bfi4ir$t21$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <2259b0e2.0307221611.44b29664@posting.google.com>

bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) wrote in message news:<bfi4ir$t21$0 at 216.39.172.122>...
> I think I'd prefer
> 
>   if any_true(filename.endswith, ('.jpg','.jpeg','.gif','.png')):
>      dosomething()
> 
> I suspect it will more often make sense read aloud in the general
> 
>   if any_true(pred, seq):
> 
> than
> 
>   if the(pred, seq)
> 
> I guess the full set of functions might be
> any_true, any_false, all_true, and all_false.
> 
> or maybe someone can think of better short phrase?
> 
> Regards,
> Bengt Richter

I think in the specific case I was talking about "the" was quite
readable; however I agree that in the general case "any_true" etc.
would be better.
I would not be opposed to add these convenience functions in
itertools. The
advantage is standardization (i.e. I don't have to invent my own name,
different from the name chosen by anybody else), the disadvantage is 
more things to learn; however, with such descriptive names, it would
be
difficult to not grasp what those functions are doing, even without
looking at the documentation. Anyway, I am sure many will be opposed, 
saying that such functions are so simple that they do not deserve to
be
in the library. This would be a sensible opinion, BTW.


          Michele



From kfettig at state.nd.us  Thu Jul 24 15:00:29 2003
From: kfettig at state.nd.us (Ken Fettig)
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 14:00:29 -0500
Subject: running python
References: <bfp9uh$76a$1@news7.svr.pol.co.uk>
Message-ID: <i1WTa.135$313.73316@news.uswest.net>

As I understand it, you have to have the Python interpreter installed on
your machine before you can run Python Scripts...
I don't think anyone will dispute that.....
Thanks
Ken Fettig
kenfettig at btinet.net

"Iain Macalister" <MACALISTER at coltonhouse43.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in
message news:bfp9uh$76a$1 at news7.svr.pol.co.uk...
> How do you run files written with python if you don't have the compiler
and
> stuff on your computer?
>
>





From tomas at fancy.org  Tue Jul 15 18:09:38 2003
From: tomas at fancy.org (Tom Plunket)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 15:09:38 -0700
Subject: wxPython - question
References: <slrnbgre73.fld.pipen@beast.tu.kielce.pl> <3cp1hvgjkfeih2k3f0mo0he7mn4lmt7u7q@4ax.com> <slrnbh339p.dkj.pipen@beast.tu.kielce.pl> <4737hvob87b2699fvqkhl61i9ufqm1jnc4@4ax.com> <Xns93B9D1005F65EJanC@213.118.75.80>
Message-ID: <kru8hv85bn3sjij4kqdt6ck63n7rav6dla@4ax.com>

JanC wrote:

> > but the same thing could be achieved by plopping up a dialog box.
> 
> That's why almost everybody is using a pop-up stopper these days.

Heh no doubt.  I love nothing more than furiously coding away on
something, a dialog pops up from somewhere, and the next <space>
that I type dismisses the dialog before I even notice it on
screen.

-tom!

-- 
There's really no reason to send a copy of your
followup to my email address, so please don't.



From http  Fri Jul 11 11:52:14 2003
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 11 Jul 2003 08:52:14 -0700
Subject: Embedding Python, threading and scalability
References: <mailman.1057884556.438.python-list@python.org> <bemhsb$dgn$1@panix3.panix.com>
Message-ID: <7xvfu983ip.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) writes:
> Not particularly.  Most threading at the application level is done for
> one or more of three purposes:
> 
> * Allowing background work and fast response in a GUI application
> 
> * Scalable I/O
> 
> * Autonomous sections of code for algorithmic simplicity (e.g.
> simulations)

Um, concurrent access by multiple clients for server applications?

> Python does quite well at all three out of the box (the second because
> all standard Python I/O modules release the GIL, as do most 3rd-party
> extensions that deal with I/O (e.g. mxODBC)).  The only thing Python
> doesn't do is computational threading, and Python's overhead makes it a
> poor choice for that purpose.  Finally, there are so many distributed
> computing solutions that multiple processes are a viable technique for
> managing computational threading.

Yeah, but now you need complicated and possibly slow mechanisms for
sharing global state between processes.



From djc at object-craft.com.au  Sun Jul 20 06:58:24 2003
From: djc at object-craft.com.au (Dave Cole)
Date: 20 Jul 2003 20:58:24 +1000
Subject: Albatross 1.10 released
Message-ID: <m3r84ltqgf.fsf@ferret.object-craft.com.au>

OVERVIEW

Albatross is a small toolkit for developing highly stateful web
applications.

The toolkit has been designed to take a lot of the pain out of
constructing intranet applications although you can also use Albatross
for deploying publicly accessed web applications.

In slightly less than 3000 lines of Python (according to pycount) you
get the following:

  * An extensible HTML templating system similar to DTML including tags for:
    - Conditional processing.
    - Macro definition and expansion.
    - Sequence iteration and pagination.
    - Tree browsing.
    - Lookup tables to translate Python values to arbitrary template
      text.
  * Application classes which offer the following features:
    - Optional server side or browser side sessions.
    - The ability to place Python code for each page in a dynamically
      loaded module, or to place all page processing code in a single
      mainline.
  * The ability to deploy applications either as CGI or via mod_python
    by changing less than 10 lines of code.

The toolkit application functionality is defined by a collection of
fine grained mixin classes.  Nine different application types and five
different execution contexts are prepackaged, you are able to define
your own drop in replacements for any of the mixins to alter any
aspect of the toolkit semantics.

Application deployment is controlled by your choice of either cgi,
FastCGI, mod_python, or BaseHTTPServer Request class.  It should be
possible to develop a Request class for Medusa or Twisted to allow
applications to be deployed on those platforms with minimal changes.

Albatross comes with over 160 pages of documentation.  HTML, PDF and
PostScript formatted documentation is available from the toolkit
homepage.

The toolkit homepage:

        http://www.object-craft.com.au/projects/albatross/

The Albatross mailing list subscription and archives:

	http://object-craft.com.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/albatross-users


CHANGES SINCE 1.01

There have been many improvements and bug fixes since release 1.01.
The following page describes the changes in detail.

    http://www.object-craft.com.au/projects/albatross/albatross/rel-1.10.html

(There were no changes to 1.10pre4)

-- 
http://www.object-craft.com.au





From klapotec at chello.at  Thu Jul 31 16:21:53 2003
From: klapotec at chello.at (Christopher Koppler)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 20:21:53 GMT
Subject: list indexing
References: <ec1162c7.0307311153.26d1b999@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <76uiivkl7vlr98ggp1p7i4h8m8h2s0sbs0@4ax.com>

On 31 Jul 2003 12:53:09 -0700, ruach at chpc.utah.edu (Matthew) wrote:

>Hello, I am rather new to python and I have come across a problem that
>I can not find an answer to any where I my books. What I would like to
>know is if there is a way to get the index number of a list element by
>name. Sort of the inverse of the .index() method.
>
>For example
>
>list = ['this', 'is', 'a', 'list']
>for item in list:
>  if item = 'list':
>    print ????
>
>???? Is where I want to be able to get the index number, in this case
>3 from the list in a simple fasion.
>
>
>I know that I could do this
>
>list = ['this', 'is', 'a', 'list']
>counter = 0 
>for item in list:
>  if item = 'list':
>    print counter
>  else:
>    counter = counter + 1
>
>But is there an easier way?
>

Using a recent Python you can use enumerate (built-in):

list = ['this', 'is', 'a', 'list']
for cnt, item in enumerate(list):
	if item == 'list':
		print cnt



--Christopher



From logistix at cathoderaymission.net  Tue Jul 29 13:23:19 2003
From: logistix at cathoderaymission.net (logistix at cathoderaymission.net)
Date: 29 Jul 2003 10:23:19 -0700
Subject: Debugging Python ?
References: <mailman.1059409013.10134.python-list@python.org> <vian1bbfkogpa1@news.supernews.com> <ef72fb2b.0307281449.6b144be7@posting.google.com> <3c91a864.0307282013.2acb2d1f@posting.google.com> <ef72fb2b.0307290632.1997cb6a@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3c91a864.0307290923.415b642a@posting.google.com>

pedro.werneck at bol.com.br (Pedro Werneck) wrote in message news:<ef72fb2b.0307290632.1997cb6a at posting.google.com>...
> That's a nice idea... I done something similar to redirect print
> statements to a text widget in a debug environment I am developing...
> but my point here is not to redirect output... I think a statement
> that simply does:    if __debug__: print "..."    would ease
> debugging... that:  def _print(*args):     for arg in args:        
> print arg     return True  assert _print("bla", "bla bla")  is very
> interesting but it would be nice to have a standard way to do that...
> a new statement, a modified assert statement or a new builtin... I am
> not that experienced on python, so I don't know... what do you Python
> gurus think ? Is this worth the effort ?

The logging package in the soon-to-be-released 2.3 should take care of
you, and might even be overkill ;)

http://www.python.org/doc/2.3c2/whatsnew/node9.html



From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Sun Jul 13 05:52:17 2003
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 10:52:17 +0100
Subject: floating point control in extensions
Message-ID: <92tOKLARvSE$Ewh9@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>

Is there a preferred way to intercept floating point exceptions in
python extensions? I assume one should be careful to restore any
existing error handler. Does python have a standard mechanism for
setting up fpu control words etc? 
-- 
Robin Becker



From exarkun at intarweb.us  Thu Jul 24 21:08:11 2003
From: exarkun at intarweb.us (Jp Calderone)
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 21:08:11 -0400
Subject: Standard behaviour of a getSomething method
In-Reply-To: <bfpkur$bl0$1@main.gmane.org>
References: <A128D751272CD411BC9200508BC2194D03382C3A@escpl.tcp.com.ar> <bfpkur$bl0$1@main.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <20030725010811.GA19318@intarweb.us>

On Thu, Jul 24, 2003 at 02:56:24PM -0700, Mike Rovner wrote:
> Batista, Facundo wrote:
> 
> [snip]
> 
> Usualy statement
>    x=y
> creates a new object y referencing to old object y.

  Neither `x' nor `y' above are objects.  Hence, the statement does not
create a new object.

  What it does do is create a new binding (`x') to an object which already
exist (referenced by `y').

  Jp

-- 
"Pascal is Pascal is Pascal is dog meat."
                -- M. Devine and P. Larson, Computer Science 340
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From logiplex at qwest.net  Tue Jul 22 17:16:07 2003
From: logiplex at qwest.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: 22 Jul 2003 14:16:07 -0700
Subject: wxpython display jpg in a frame
In-Reply-To: <Xns93C3E5CBB1F33maxnowherecom@212.68.193.222>
References: <Xns93C3E5CBB1F33maxnowherecom@212.68.193.222>
Message-ID: <1058908566.1448.42.camel@software1.logiplex.internal>

On Tue, 2003-07-22 at 12:32, max4 wrote:
> hello
> i would like to know if there is a good tutorial about how to do this
> or if someone could explain
> [ i want to add a jpg to an existing about dialog]


Capture the PAINT event and use a PaintDC to draw to the dialog:

class MyDialog(wx.Dialog):
    def __init__(self, ...):
        ...
        EVT_PAINT(self, self.OnPaint)


    def OnPaint(self, event):
        dc = wxPaintDC(self)
        dc.DrawBitmap(bitmap, ...)
        event.Skip()
	

BTW, questions about wxPython are better asked on the wxPython list:

http://www.wxpython.org/maillist.php

Regards,

-- 
Cliff Wells, Software Engineer
Logiplex Corporation (www.logiplex.net)
(503) 978-6726  (800) 735-0555





From andrew-pythonlist at puzzling.org  Fri Jul 18 01:07:40 2003
From: andrew-pythonlist at puzzling.org (Andrew Bennetts)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 15:07:40 +1000
Subject: Regular expression help
In-Reply-To: <EKKRa.5589$0F4.2536@nwrdny02.gnilink.net>
References: <LApRa.5420$Qe5.2628@nwrddc03.gnilink.net> <mailman.1058418746.16790.python-list@python.org> <EKKRa.5589$0F4.2536@nwrdny02.gnilink.net>
Message-ID: <20030718050740.GH7618@frobozz>

On Fri, Jul 18, 2003 at 04:31:32AM +0000, David Lees wrote:
> Andrew Bennetts wrote:
> >
> >How about re.findall?

[...]

> Actually this fails with the multi-line type of file I was asking about.
> 
> >>> re.findall('BEGIN(.*?)END', 'BEGIN foo\nmumble END   BEGIN bar END')
> [' bar ']

Oh!  So it does.  I presumed it took an optional flags argument, like
re.search, but it doesn't.  Compiling the pattern with re.M doesn't seem to
help (and I can't figure out how to include the flag inline -- "(?M)"
doesn't seem to work).

On the other hand, this hack does work:

>>> re.findall('BEGIN((?:.|\\n)*?)END', 'BEGIN foo\nmumble END   BEGIN bar END')
[' foo\nmumble ', ' bar ']

(There's probably a more elegant way to do that, but I'm not a re expert)

-Andrew.





From adechert at earthlink.net  Sun Jul 20 21:58:41 2003
From: adechert at earthlink.net (Alan Dechert)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 01:58:41 GMT
Subject: Possible use of Python for a voting machine demo project -- your feedback requested
References: <P9DSa.111436$Io.9552373@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <bff56e$8iv$1@slb9.atl.mindspring.net> <7xllus94t8.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <K_idnV09hdycrYaiRTvU2Q@speakeasy.net> <lHGSa.111792$Io.9577193@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <7x1xwk8z14.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <lNHSa.14101$Mc.1038227@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>

"Paul Rubin" <http://phr.cx at NOSPAM.invalid> wrote in message
news:7x1xwk8z14.fsf at ruckus.brouhaha.com...
> "Alan Dechert" <adechert at earthlink.net> writes:
> > Right.  This receipt problem is way overblown.  If we really thought
this
> > was a big problem, absentee voting would be illegal.  There are problems
> > with absentee voting but then look at Oregon -- they have gone to
> > vote-by-mail entirely.
>
> In fact absentee ballots are just about the favorite mechanism of
> ballot fraud.  ....
>
I think that is correct.

> Absentee voting should be greatly curtailed if not
> banned outright.  Instead, voters away from home should be allowed to
> cast their ballots at any official polling place they happen to be
> near, not just at the one in their home district.
>
Our system, if implemented, would replace the current absentee system as
well as the current poll site system.

http://home.earthlink.net/~adechert/ucvs-proposal.rtf

The absentee system would work very much like the poll site system.  The
voter would see exactly the same screens with either one.  The printout
would look exactly the same.  The ballot electronic record would wind up in
exactly the same format as poll site ballots.  Here are some advantages
highlighted in the proposal:

? Voter does not need to plan
? Avoids mailing of absentee request as request is made and granted
on-the-spot
? No need for the county to print and mail costly absentee ballot materials
? Tabulation of absentee votes available on Election Day
? Seamless integration with poll site system
? Secret ballot and voter anonymity preserved
? Greatly reduces potential for absentee vote fraud

> I have doubts about Oregon but its problems don't see nearly as bad as
> places like Florida (try Googling for "Xavier Suarez" and "fraud").
> If they did mail-in voting in Florida, they would never get a reliable
> election result again.
>
> As for the receipt problem being overblown, IIRC, Benaloh's original
> paper described its motivation, citing examples of the Mafia telling
> people how to vote in Italian elections and demanding to see receipts.
> There would be similar problems in the US military from what I've heard.
>
There are still important issues there.  Generally, we've cracked down on
blatant coersion and vote buying.  Still, some good sting operations are
probably in order.

The most persistent type of corruption has to do with campaigns that
overwork the absentee ballots -- helping voters make sure they vote.
Sometimes it's a fine line.  A campaign worker might stop by an elderly
voter to make sure s/he has mailed in the absentee ballot, and the voter
asks for assistance -- or the campaign worker offers assistance.  How much
assistance constitutes fraud where a voter is really not sure what to do?  I
don't have any numbers but in 2000 a lot of older folks in Florida were
getting assistance with obtaining and sending in their absentee ballots.

Alan Dechert







From duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk  Tue Jul 15 10:11:02 2003
From: duncan at NOSPAMrcp.co.uk (Duncan Booth)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 14:11:02 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: A few beginning questions
References: <3f129a8a$1@mail.hmgcc.gov.uk> <2259b0e2.0307140930.4b3c43a5@posting.google.com> <ptkdj863.fsf@python.net> <bf0anc$9gch1$1@ID-141451.news.uni-berlin.de> <3f13bd77$1@mail.hmgcc.gov.uk> <Xns93B968108D2DCduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1> <3f13f674$1@mail.hmgcc.gov.uk>
Message-ID: <Xns93B99A35069AAduncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1>

"richardc" <richardc at hmgcc.gov.uk> wrote in
news:3f13f674$1 at mail.hmgcc.gov.uk: 

> I wanted to scan the lines backwards until I found %%EOF (as its
> likley to be the last line) and do it that way.  I might do that or
> might use a regex and just let that find it.

Ok, try this. (On Windows systems the file has to be opened in binary mode 
for this to work.)

----- cut here -----
from __future__ import generators

def readbackwards(aFile, blocksize=1024):
    def blocks(length, blocksize):
        for pos in range(length, 0, -blocksize):
            yield pos, 1024
        yield 0, pos
        
    aFile.seek(0, 2) # Seek to end
    eof = aFile.tell()
    residue = None
    for pos, size in blocks(eof, blocksize):
        aFile.seek(pos, 0)
        block = aFile.read(blocksize)
        if residue is not None:
            block += residue
        lines = block.split('\n')
        lines.reverse()

        residue = lines.pop()
        for line in lines:
            if line.endswith('\r'):
                line = line[:-1]
            yield line

    if residue is not None:
        yield residue

if __name__=='__main__':
    input = file('test.txt', 'rb')
    for line in readbackwards(input, blocksize=8192):
        if line.startswith("%%EOF"):
            print line
            break
    input.close()

----- end cut ------

-- 
Duncan Booth                                             duncan at rcp.co.uk
int month(char *p){return(124864/((p[0]+p[1]-p[2]&0x1f)+1)%12)["\5\x8\3"
"\6\7\xb\1\x9\xa\2\0\4"];} // Who said my code was obscure?



From kmj9907 at cs.rit.edu  Tue Jul 29 14:19:22 2003
From: kmj9907 at cs.rit.edu (Keith Jones)
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 18:19:22 GMT
Subject: PyQt Help and Advice
References: <bg636k$408g$1@netnews.upenn.edu>
Message-ID: <pan.2003.07.29.18.23.51.576277@cs.rit.edu>

On Tue, 29 Jul 2003 15:17:40 +0000, Ilya Knizhnik wrote:

> However since PyQt is rather new, I have not found much documentation on
> it, or examples in it.  The only useful tutorial/book I have found is at
> www.opendocspublishing.com/pyqt/ but it is not always clear for someone
> with almost no GUI experience.
> Does anyone have any suggestions?
> 
> Ilya

If you're at all familiar with C++, or even if you're not, you'll find
Qt's API docs, http://doc.trolltech.com/3.0/ , very handy. I've found that
pyQt correlates almost exactly with them, except for some str QString
conversion issues. I refer to that all the time when I'm doing PyQt code.
Also, I don't know what OS or distro you're on, but there is a set of pyqt
examples out there. In redhat, I used the PyQt-examples rpm (case
sensitive), which installs a bunch of example programs to
/usr/share/doc/PyQt-examples-[version].  Also. as Sybren mentioned, the Qt
tutorial itself should be useful.. Finally, I'll say that the book you
mentioned is excellent, and a wonder source of example code. I liked it
enough that I bought it, and I'm happy I did.

Good luck with PyQt! The only issues I've had were related to QCanvas not
deleting canvas items (and therefore my program leaking them) if I don't
reuse them. I still haven't figured that out, so I just keep track of the
ones I create and reuse them, in order to prevent memory leaks.

Keith



From max at alcyone.com  Wed Jul  2 04:43:37 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 01:43:37 -0700
Subject: functors
References: <3jc4gvgn5rb4c4008eedg958ee594lu8p2@4ax.com> <slrnbg55ts.c27.mirko-lists@zeibig.net>
Message-ID: <3F029B39.FA1DBBAE@alcyone.com>

Mirko Zeibig wrote:

> it's even simpler and maybe to obvious for a C++-afficinado:
> 
> > class SomeClass:
> >     def __init__(self):
> >         self.countdown = Countdown()
> >         self.countdown.SetCallback(30, lambda s=self: s.Callback)
> 
>           self.countdown.SetCallback(30, self.Callback)
> 
> You don't need lambda here, just give the Countdown class a reference
> to your
> callback-method by specifying it's name *without* parentheses :-).
> 
> If you print self.Callback, you will the information, that this is a
> instance-bound method object.

This feature of bound vs. unbound methods is one of the things that,
early on, made me really warm up to Python.  The example you provide is
in fact the situation in which they're often the most useful:  when
needing callbacks, usually for event-based systems (including GUIs).

C++ has member function pointers, but it doesn't have the standalone
concept of bound member functions, so functors are in fact usually used
for precisely this case, where you want to get a single callable object
that binds a member function pointer to an instance pointer/reference. 
Python's builtin ability to usefully distinguish between bound and
unbound methods usually eliminates that need entirely; that is to say, a
bound method _is_ in fact a "functor," in that it's simply a callable
object that has the desired effect.

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ I'm trying to forget / But I can't act as if we never met
\__/  Chante Moore



From joerg.maier at rz.uni-mannheim.de  Mon Jul 28 19:50:32 2003
From: joerg.maier at rz.uni-mannheim.de (=?ISO-8859-15?Q?J=F6rg?= Maier)
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 01:50:32 +0200
Subject: python on windos os.popen and standart in and out
References: <bg1hnt$jufqn$1@ID-181971.news.uni-berlin.de> <bg2qfe$j3t$1@newsreader.mailgate.org>
Message-ID: <bg4cu2$l1g62$1@ID-181971.news.uni-berlin.de>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

thanks, 
i am so stupid, thats the right stuff, just read the moules documentation
and there was something like
<from the popen2 module; these are only available on Unix.>
But down there they say
<Availability: Unix, Windows.>

thats what i need now

bye joerg

nneo wrote:

> On Sun, 27 Jul 2003 23:54:18 +0200, J?rg Maier wrote:
> 
>>  when giving 'w' as second parameter, i just can write,
>> but not read. ssh is installed by cygwin. i dont want to use ssh-keys,
>> because user shold be able to use the program on different machines
>> without much key-copying.
> 
> Instead of os.popen try os.popen2 which gives
> back 2 pipes , one to read and onother to write to you application .
> 
> p1 , p2 = os.popen2("foo")

- -- 
Hi
I am a signature virus. 
Please copy me to your .signature file to help me spread.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.2.2-rc1-SuSE (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQE/JbbNTYj8eXbs1acRArKcAKCeb5qP4Psd8VFA+KlZh1FVAweLOgCgyYiZ
7M1g4m+q5J8cWOXF8PVxHHs=
=z7vi
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----



From rshaw2 at midsouth.rr.com  Fri Jul 25 14:36:23 2003
From: rshaw2 at midsouth.rr.com (Richard)
Date: 25 Jul 2003 11:36:23 -0700
Subject: How to detect typos in Python programs
References: <ZPaUa.6$gZ.133@news.oracle.com>
Message-ID: <84e0f331.0307251036.6504b16a@posting.google.com>

Manish Jethani <manish.j at gmx.net> wrote in message news:<ZPaUa.6$gZ.133 at news.oracle.com>...
> Hi all,
> 
> Is there a way to detect typos in a Python program, before
> actually having to run it.  Let's say I have a function like this:
> 
>   def server_closed_connection():
>     session.abost()
> 
> Here, abort() is actually misspelt.  The only time my program
> follows this path is when the server disconnects from its
> end--and that's like once in 100 sessions.  So sometimes I
> release the program, people start using it, and then someone
> reports this typo after 4-5 days of the release (though it's
> trivial to fix manually at the user's end, or I can give a patch).
> 
> How can we detect these kinds of errors at development time?
> It's not practical for me to have a test script that can make
> the program go through all (most) the possible code paths.
> 
> -Manish

Two words! Unit Testing!

Just do a google search on "Python unit testing" and I'm sure you'll
get more information than you ever wanted to know.

Richard



From daniel.dittmar at sap.com  Wed Jul 23 07:20:41 2003
From: daniel.dittmar at sap.com (Daniel Dittmar)
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 13:20:41 +0200
Subject: [OnTopic] SCO is Going After End Users
References: <4868482a.0307211336.4ca9493a@posting.google.com> <ad496f8.0307230228.2767acc2@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bflr29$7q2$1@news1.wdf.sap-ag.de>

Ville Vainio wrote:
> It might be slightly on topic in that the future versions of Python
> could theoretically (and developers willing), shall we say, not pay as
> much attention for unixware as the target platform... perhaps even
> drift so far as not being able to compile at all >;-).

SCO doesn't want you to actually use unixware. You should only pay them as
if you do.

Daniel






From danb_83 at yahoo.com  Sat Jul 19 22:26:08 2003
From: danb_83 at yahoo.com (Dan Bishop)
Date: 19 Jul 2003 19:26:08 -0700
Subject: classes
References: <pan.2003.07.19.20.46.33.864915@bogus.domain.org>
Message-ID: <ad052e5c.0307191826.144ad2a5@posting.google.com>

"Pablo" <pablo at bogus.domain.org> wrote in message news:<pan.2003.07.19.20.46.33.864915 at bogus.domain.org>...
> Hello everyone
> 
> I have a problem with classes and hope someone can help me.
> I'm used to Java and want to make a singleton class which would allow to
> create only one instance of the class.
...[snip]...
> How can I do the same in Python?
> My main problems are:
> 1) how to declare a static field (class field not object field)

<nitpick>You can't.  There are no variable declarations in
Python.</nitpick>  You can use static fields, though.

>>> class HasStaticField:
...    field = 4
...
>>> HasStaticField.field
4

> 2) how to declare a static method

    class HasStaticMethod:
       def method(arg0, arg1):  # note the lack of "self"
          # do something with arg0 and arg1
       method = staticmethod(method)

> 3) how to declare a private constructor (is it possible?)

It's not possible (afaik) to define a private constructor.  But it is
possible to enforce that a constructor can be called only once.

    class SingletonError(Exception):
       pass

    class Singleton:
       __instance = None
       def __init__(self):
          if Singleton.__instance is None:
             # initialization code
             Singleton.__instance = self
          else:
             raise SingletonError()
       def getInstance():
          if Singleton.__instance is None:
             Singleton()
          return Singleton.__instance
       getInstance = staticmethod(getInstance)



From jjl at pobox.com  Sun Jul 27 20:51:21 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 28 Jul 2003 01:51:21 +0100
Subject: Cookie.py troubles.
References: <pan.2003.07.27.20.09.37.958056@myrealbox.com>
Message-ID: <87fzkra2ye.fsf@pobox.com>

Ben Hearsum <bhearsum at myrealbox.com> writes:
[...]
> I set my cookie like this:
> 
> mycookie = Cookie.SimpleCookie()
> mycookie['key'] = "foobar"
> 
> print mycookie
> print("Content-Type: text/html\n\n")
> print("meow")
> 
> Now, to retrieve it, the documentation says I parse the HTTP_COOKIE
> environment variable. Makes sense to me. But when I print it out I get
> "Set-Cookie: key=foobar;". I was thinking of parsing it with cgi.parse_qs,
> but even if i do print(mycookie.output(header="")) there's still a ; at
> the end of the cookie.

Why do you want to parse Set-Cookie if you're writing a CGI script?

Set-Cookie is what the server sends to the client.  HTTP_COOKIE is set
by the server, not by Python, to the value than was sent by the client
to the server.  I guess SimpleCookie has a __str__ method that makes
it print out Set-Cookie: key=foobar; -- seems like useful behaviour.

> Here's what I use to print them out:
> 
> cookie = Cookie.SimpleCookie()
> cookie.load(os.environ['HTTP_COOKIE'])

Yep, in comes the Cookie: header, I presume SimpleCookie parses it,
and then...


> print("Content-Type: text/html\n\n")
> print(mycookie.output(header=""))

You send the cookie back to the client again.


> Output:
> 
> key=foobar;

This seems to contradict what you said before ("key=foobar;"
vs. "Set-Cookie: key=foobar;").



John



From staschuk at telusplanet.net  Tue Jul 22 18:41:29 2003
From: staschuk at telusplanet.net (Steven Taschuk)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 16:41:29 -0600
Subject: recognizing empty iterators
In-Reply-To: <2259b0e2.0307220744.156c95bf@posting.google.com>; from mis6@pitt.edu on Tue, Jul 22, 2003 at 08:44:52AM -0700
References: <2259b0e2.0307210626.11a1bbf1@posting.google.com> <mailman.1058835583.22488.python-list@python.org> <2259b0e2.0307220744.156c95bf@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20030722164129.B393@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>

Quoth Michele Simionato:
> Steven Taschuk <staschuk at telusplanet.net> wrote in message news:<mailman.1058835583.22488.python-list at python.org>...
  [...]
> > I don't have anything substantial to add to others' posts, but I
> > wonder: under what circumstances do you want to do this?
> 
> I wanted to check the output of ifilter or imap; [...]

Ah.  And then, if there were elements in the iterator, I assume
you would then process them somehow, right?  Why not just do that
with a for loop, say, and check afterwards whether anything has
been done?  A silly example:

    processed = 0
    for x in iterator:
        process(x)
        processed = processed + 1
    if processed:
        # ...

> [...] at the end I solved
> my problem in another way, nevertheless I am surprised there is no
> way to check for an empty iterator in current Python, it seems to be
> a quite legitimate question, isn't it?

Absolutely.  I was just curious what the original problem was.

(I haven't read the iterators PEP in a while, but it seems to me
the iterator protocol is deliberately minimalistic.  Makes it
easier to write them; and if you do frequently need lookahead,
writing a wrapper as others have suggested seems easy enough.)

-- 
Steven Taschuk             "The world will end if you get this wrong."
staschuk at telusplanet.net     -- "Typesetting Mathematics -- User's Guide",
                                 Brian Kernighan and Lorrinda Cherry




From tjreedy at udel.edu  Mon Jul 28 13:05:00 2003
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 13:05:00 -0400
Subject: urn scheme
References: <bg38sa$e6r$1@news7.svr.pol.co.uk>
Message-ID: <rsycnR1hv40gyriiU-KYvg@comcast.com>

"Duncan Smith" <buzzard at urubu.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:bg38sa$e6r$1 at news7.svr.pol.co.uk...
> Hello,
>          I'm currently doing some simulations where I need to sample
without
> replacement from a list of counts.  (Actually it's a Numeric array,
but I'm
> currently converting the array to a list, using the following
function and
> converting back to an array.)  I *desperately *need to speed this up
> (simulations currently take over 24 hours).  This sampling is a real
> bottleneck, and accounts for about 90% of the time cost.  If I can
get a
> 10-fold speed up I might be in business, and a 100-fold speed up
might even
> allow me to meet a deadline.  Using psyco appears to give me no
speed up
> whatsoever (that can't be right, can it?).  I am currently working
on
> reducing the number of function calls to urn(), but the biggest
speed up
> will still come from improving the performance of this function.
Any ideas
> for a significant speed up?  TIA.

Do the minimum needed for each call and minimize intermediate
structures.  Among other things, this means specializing the
function -- no options.  Instead separate with and without replacement
functions.  Consider writing urn() as a generator returning one draw
at a time instead of a list.

Assuming that 'bins' means 'colors' (number of each), I suggest
constructing an single urn list as follows:

  contents = []
  for i in range(len(bins)): contents.extend(bins[i]*[i])

This replaces cum_bins and the multiple comparisons and adjustments.
It can go inside or outside urn() depending upon whether a given
configuration is used just once or muptiple times.  Then:

  sampling one item with replacement: random.choice(contents).
  sampling all without replacement:     random.shuffle(contents)
  sampling some without replacement: random.shuffle(contents)[:draws]
   or, if draws is small enough (test timings for switch point)

def urn_swor(colors, draws):
    '''Construct multicolor urn and destructively sample without
replacement
    (swor) 'draws' items by successively removing random element
thereof.
    Colors is array of number of each color.
    '''
    ncolors = len(colors)
    contents = []
    for i in range(ncolors):
       contents.extend(colors[i]*[i])
    n = len(contents)
    rand = random.randrange
    res = ncolors * [0]
    while draws:
        i = rand(n)
        res[contents[i]] += 1
        contents[i] = contents[-1]
        n -= 1
        draws -= 1
    return res

>>> urn_swor((0,2,5,3,4), 10)
[0, 2, 2, 0, 6]
>>> urn_swor((0,2,5,3,4), 10)
[0, 1, 4, 1, 4]
>>> urn_swor((0,2,5,3,4), 10)
[0, 1, 3, 1, 5]
>>> urn_swor((0,2,5,3,4), 10)
[0, 2, 1, 1, 6]

> -----------------------------------------------------------
> import random
>
> def urn(bins, draws, drawn=0, others=0):
>
>     """Bins is a sequence containing the numbers
>     of balls in the urns.  'drawn' and 'others'

Sampling one urn with k colors (variable number of each) is the same
as a weighted sampling from k urns with 1 color each but should be
much faster when done as described above.

>     define how the contents of the bins should
>     be updated after each draw in draws.  The
>     default arguments correspond to sampling
>     with replacement.  e.g. drawn = -1 corresponds
>     to sampling without replacement"""

'others' not defined

>     len_bins = len(bins)
>     res = [0] * len_bins
>     cum_bins = [bins[0]] + [0] * (len_bins-1)
>     for i in range(1, len_bins):
>         cum_bins[i] = cum_bins[i-1] + bins[i]
>     for i in range(draws):
>         balls = random.random() * cum_bins[-1]
>         adj = 0
>         for j in range(len_bins):
>             if adj == 0 and cum_bins[j] > balls:
>                 res[j] += 1
>                 cum_bins[j] += drawn>             else:
>                 cum_bins[j] += (j - adj) * others + adj * drawn

I have no idea what this is about.

>     return res
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> >>> urn((0,2,5,3,4), 10, -1)
> [0, 1, 4, 1, 4]

Terry J. Reedy





From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Tue Jul 22 08:12:20 2003
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 07:12:20 -0500
Subject: How to save web pages for offline reading?
In-Reply-To: <cb035744.0307212238.2ea9c46@posting.google.com> (hwlgw@hotmail.com's
 message of "21 Jul 2003 23:38:12 -0700")
References: <cb035744.0307210131.5cfbc890@posting.google.com>
	<bfge1v$e6v86$1@ID-63505.news.uni-berlin.de>
	<cb035744.0307210848.6b1328d1@posting.google.com>
	<slrnbho797.u9.sybrenUSE@sybren.thirdtower.com>
	<cb035744.0307212238.2ea9c46@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <m23cgyvjyz.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

>>>>> "Will" == Will Stuyvesant <hwlgw at hotmail.com> writes:


    Will> I thought this whole thing would be easy with all those
    Will> Python internet modules in the standard distro: httplib,
    Will> urllib, urllib2, FancyURLxxx etc.  Being able to download a
    Will> "complete" page *from Python source* would be very nice for
    Will> my particular application.

Have you seen websucker, in the Tools/webchecker/websucker.py subdir
of the python src dir?  It does something very close to what you want.

JDH




From pythonguy at Hotpop.com  Wed Jul 16 02:53:56 2003
From: pythonguy at Hotpop.com (Anand Pillai)
Date: 15 Jul 2003 23:53:56 -0700
Subject: Python Quiz
Message-ID: <84fc4588.0307152253.20858619@posting.google.com>

Hi Pythonistas,

I have placed a quiz on Python on the trivia site www.funtrivia.com.
Here is the link.

http://www.funtrivia.com/quizdetails.cfm?id=139672

Looks like it is the first quiz on Python on this site.

Please try it out if you like quizzing. 
Let me know if there are any factual errors.

Thanks

~Anand



From bart.NOSPAM.de.waal at quicknet.nl  Tue Jul  1 02:53:44 2003
From: bart.NOSPAM.de.waal at quicknet.nl (bart)
Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 08:53:44 +0200
Subject: I need a lot of help!
In-Reply-To: <b6d57k$lvo$1@newshost.accu.uu.nl>
References: <31ef0f43.0304011336.1d2777ac@posting.google.com> <b6d57k$lvo$1@newshost.accu.uu.nl>
Message-ID: <1057042341.278407@cache2>

Martijn Faassen wrote:
> Jewlz408 <Jewlz408 at aol.com> wrote:
> 
> I know about 50% of what there is to know about Arrays. They're usually
> green but occasionally blue. They generally have big eyes.

>>3) Dim C$( 12)
> 
> 
> Trick question! This will be one Perl.

> I don't know the answer to this one. I suspect it has to do with advanced
> quantum numerology.

> 
> It is a dishwasher.
>  
> 
>>And what is the output?
> 
> 
> Dirty water, and clean dishes. You can also put in cookies however,
> in which case you will get chocolate chips.
> 

ROTFLMAO




From light at soton.ac.uk  Wed Jul  2 08:41:03 2003
From: light at soton.ac.uk (Mark Light)
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 13:41:03 +0100
Subject: splitting a string into 2 new strings
References: <bdue2n$m07$1@aspen.sucs.soton.ac.uk> <vg5jjqcc8d2r1f@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <bdujra$o4r$1@aspen.sucs.soton.ac.uk>

that works great - many thanks.

"trp" <trp at smyrncable.net> wrote in message
news:vg5jjqcc8d2r1f at corp.supernews.com...
> Mark Light wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >       I have a string e.g. 'C6 H12 O6' that I wish to split up to give 2
> > strings
> > 'C H O' and '6 12 6'.  I have played with string.split() and the re
module
> > - but can't quite get there.
> >
> > Any help would be greatly appreciated.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Mark.
>
> I'm, assuming that these are chemical compounds, so you're not limited to
> one-character symbols.
>
> Here's how I'd do it
>
> import re
>
> re_pat = re.compile('([A-Z]+)(\d+)')
> text = 'C6 H12 O6'
>
> # find each component, returns list of tuples (e.g. [('C', '6'), ...]
> component = re_pat.findall(text)
>
> #split into separate lists
> symbols, counts = zip(*component)
>
> # create the strings
> symbols = ' '.join(symbols)
> counts = ' '.join(counts)
>
> --Andy
>
>
>
>
>





From max at alcyone.com  Sat Jul 12 04:02:16 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 01:02:16 -0700
Subject: Python Mystery Theatre -- Episode 1:  Exceptions
References: <UiOPa.3259$Y92.1224@nwrdny01.gnilink.net>
Message-ID: <3F0FC088.3C56EDEA@alcyone.com>

Raymond Hettinger wrote:

(I've pasted in code I needed to use to illustrate or understand the
problems.)

> ACT I ---------------------------------------
> >>> s = list('abc')
> >>> try:
> ...     result = s['a']
> ... except IndexError, TypeError:
> ...     print 'Not found'
> ...
> 
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<pyshell#11>", line 2, in -toplevel-
>     result = s['a']
> TypeError: list indices must be integers

This one's easy.  You didn't try to catch IndexErrors and TypeErrors,
you tried to catch an IndexError and, if caught, assign the exception
instance to TypeError.  The except clause takes an exception class or
tuple of exception classes, and then an optional instance variable name,
and then some other optional things.  So:

	...
	except (IndexError, TypeError):
	...

will fix this.

 > ACT II --------------------------------------------
> >>> class MyMistake(Exception):
> ...     pass
> 
> >>> try:
> ...     raise MyMistake, 'try, try again'
> ... except MyMistake, msg:
> ...     print type(msg)
> ...
> 
> <type 'instance'>

I'm not sure what mystery you're trying to get at here.  This is what
Python prints for all instances:

>>> class C:
...  pass
... 
>>> c = C()
>>> type(c)
<type 'instance'>

An exception is an instance of an exception class, so it looks like an
instance like any other.  If you wanted the name of the class, then use
__class__:

>>> c.__class__
<class __main__.C at 0x814f9e4>
>>> c.__class__.__name__
'C'

> ACT III --------------------------------------------
> >>> class Prohibited(Exception):
> ...     def __init__(self):
> ...         print 'This class of should never get initialized'
> ...
> >>> raise Prohibited()
> This class of should never get initialized
> 
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<pyshell#40>", line 1, in -toplevel-
>     raise Prohibited()
> Prohibited: <unprintable instance object>
> >>> raise Prohibited
> This class of should never get initialized
> 
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<pyshell#41>", line 1, in -toplevel-
>     raise Prohibited
> Prohibited: <unprintable instance object>

Is this some IDLE-specific thing?  I don't see this at all:

>>> class Prohibited(Exception):
...  def __init__(self):
...   print 'This class should have never gotten initialized'
... 
>>> raise Prohibited()
This class should have never gotten initialized
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
__main__.Prohibited>>> 
>>> raise Prohibited
This class should have never gotten initialized
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
__main__.Prohibited>>> 

There is indeed no newline between the printed names of the class and
the following prompt, this is not a pasting error, which strongly
suggests to me that it's what you're trying to get at but is exhibiting
itself in a different way in the interactive interpreter vs. IDLE. 
Undoubtedly it happens because Prohibited overrides Exception, and
Prohibited needs an __init__ method, but that method does not call
Exception.__init__.  At the very least, fixing this for me makes the
output a little more sane:

>>> class Proscribed(Exception):
...  def __init__(self):
...   Exception.__init__(self)
...   print "That information is proscribed. Enter your DNA#." 
... 
>>> raise Proscribed()
That information is proscribed. Enter your DNA#.
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
__main__.Proscribed
>>> raise Proscribed  
That information is proscribed. Enter your DNA#.
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
__main__.Proscribed

> ACT IV -----------------------------------------------
> >>> module = 'Root'
> >>> try:
> ...     raise module + 'Error'
> ... except 'LeafError':
> ...     print 'Need leaves'
> ... except 'RootError':
> ...     print 'Need soil'
> ... except:
> ...     print 'Not sure what is needed'
> ...
> 
> Not sure what is needed

You used string exceptions and so deserve punishment :-).  In this case,
string exceptions in except clauses are tested by identity, not
equality, so building them with concatenation is unlikely to create a
string with the same ID:

>>> s = "dataspace retrieval"
>>> t = "dataspace " + "retrieval"
>>> s is t
0
>>> s == t
1

Equality and identity aren't the same thing, and this is one of the rare
cases in Python where identity really matters (usually, it's merely an
optimization implementation detail).  Short answer:  Don't use string
exceptions.  Long answer:  Seriously, don't use string exceptions.

> ACT V -----------------------------------------------
> >>> try:
> ...     raise KeyError('Cannot find key')
> ... except LookupError, msg:
> ...     print 'Lookup:', msg
> ... except OverflowError, msg:
> ...     print 'Overflow:', msg
> ... except KeyError, msg:
> ...     print 'Key:', msg
> 
> Lookup: 'Cannot find key'

This means that KeyError is a subclass of LookupError (something I
wouldn't have known off the top of my head but which was easy to
verify):

>>> issubclass(KeyError, LookupError)
1

Except clauses go in order and test to see whether the exception object
is an instance of the specified class or any of its subclasses.  Since
KeyError is a subclass of LookupError, all KeyErrors are LookupErrors
too, and that's the except clause that gets executed.  If you actually
_did_ want to distinguish between KeyErrors and LookupErrors, you can
put the KeyError clause first:

	...
	except KeyError, e:
	    ...
	except LookupError, e:
	    ...
	...

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ God said:  "Let Newton be"; and all was light.
\__/  Alexander Pope



From vze4rx4y at verizon.net  Mon Jul 14 01:42:13 2003
From: vze4rx4y at verizon.net (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 05:42:13 GMT
Subject: Python Mystery Theatre -- Episode 2:  Así Fue
Message-ID: <VorQa.15236$Kw1.587@nwrdny02.gnilink.net>

Here are four more mini-mysteries for your amusement
and edification.

In this episode, the program output is not shown.
Your goal is to predict the output and, if anything
mysterious occurs, then explain what happened
(again, in blindingly obvious terms).

There's extra credit for giving a design insight as to
why things are as they are.

Try to solve these without looking at the other posts.
Let me know if you learned something new along the way.

To challenge the those who thought the last episode
was too easy, I've included one undocumented wrinkle
known only to those who have read the code.


Enjoy,


Raymond Hettinger



ACT I -----------------------------------------------
print '*%*r*' % (10, 'guido')
print '*%.*f*' % ((42,) * 2)

ACT II -----------------------------------------------
s = '0100'
print int(s)
for b in (16, 10, 8, 2, 0, -909, -1000, None):
    print b, int(s, b)

ACT III ----------------------------------------------------
def once(x): return x
def twice(x): return 2*x
def thrice(x): return 3*x
funcs = [once, twice, thrice]

flim = [lambda x:funcs[0](x), lambda x:funcs[1](x), lambda x:funcs[2](x)]
flam = [lambda x:f(x) for f in funcs]

print flim[0](1), flim[1](1), flim[2](1)
print flam[0](1), flam[1](1), flam[2](1)

ACT IV ----------------------------------------------------
import os
os.environ['one'] = 'Now there are'
os.putenv('two', 'three')
print os.getenv('one'), os.getenv('two')






From skip at pobox.com  Thu Jul 31 14:58:55 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 13:58:55 -0500
Subject: [Newbie] FAQ?
In-Reply-To: <bgb9tr$97j$1@news.newsland.it>
References: <bgb4a9$cl0$1@news.newsland.it>
        <nv8iivsofvr76bvgnffj45q452ld5smk6d@4ax.com>
        <bgb9tr$97j$1@news.newsland.it>
Message-ID: <16169.26351.560607.12435@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    Simone>is there a FAQ for this NG?

    Christopher> http://www.faqs.org/faqs/by-newsgroup/comp/comp.lang.python.html
    Christopher> Have you heard of Google?

    Simone> sure I did! Pardon... 

Don't apologize too profusely.  The dates on the two FAQs listed there (one
for c.l.py and one for c.l.py.announce) are 1996 and 1999, respectively.
The c.l.py FAQ probably is going to be all that useful unless you're a
Python historian.

Skip




From irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl  Wed Jul 30 18:28:22 2003
From: irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 00:28:22 +0200
Subject: plug: pyBoards.com
In-Reply-To: <191e20c8.0307300703.6e84b9ed@posting.google.com>
References: <191e20c8.0307300703.6e84b9ed@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3f284687$0$49105$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

Kyle Babich wrote:

> <plug type="shameless">
> pyBoards.com is a community for all of you Python programmers out
> there.  So, why not take a minute to stop by and register?
> </plug>

<mode type="ironic">
Because I then have to check yet another source of Python discussion material...
</mode>




From kp at kyborg.dk  Thu Jul 10 08:33:01 2003
From: kp at kyborg.dk (Kim Petersen)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 14:33:01 +0200
Subject: mx odbc
In-Reply-To: <3F0D4728.45284530@hotmail.com>
References: <3f0accb5$0$13191$edfadb0f@dread15.news.tele.dk> <mailman.1057680332.32247.python-list@python.org> <3f0bce6d$0$13245$edfadb0f@dread15.news.tele.dk> <un0fnz7fu.fsf@fitlinxx.com> <3f0d32e5$0$13253$edfadb0f@dread15.news.tele.dk> <3F0D4728.45284530@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <3f0d5cfd$0$13154$edfadb0f@dread15.news.tele.dk>

Alan Kennedy wrote:
> Kim Petersen wrote:
> 
> 
>>I have no idea about the support (obviously) - but then i hardly ever
>>buy/use support for development tools [especially not open-source ones].
> 
> 
> Well, that just about says it all for the theory that "open source
> developers should make their money from services".
> 
> What many people seem to forget is that maintaining high quality
> software *is* a service: in the case of mxODBC, a very high quality
> service. If M-A-L didn't charge licensing fees, then he'd be providing
> a high quality service, i.e. well designed, maintained and up-to-date
> software, without any income at all, since, in general, developers
> don't buy support for development tools, unless they absolutely must.

It *is* a service - i agree completely and even if i don't use the 
support i'll prolly patch the problem and send the result upstream - 
that really isn't an argument to use in the below. The reason for that 
statement was simply that in opensource situations, we'll _maybe_ locate 
the bug ourselves (or patch the product to do what we want - which 
*cannot* be done in closed-source) and i'm not talking beer!

> 
> Kim Petersen wrote:
> 
> 
>>[snip] paying 70$ pr.
>>customer, is the equivalent of paying you for 1hr of support for each
>>customer [not installation mind you], where our own licence/supportcost
>>is already getting lower and lower
> 
> 
> It's a free market: pick another (cheaper) ODBC driver and use that
> instead. Just make sure that your customers understand that they will
> get a poorer quality product from you because they're paying you less
> money, so you have to use lower quality components in your software:
> I wonder how long they'll be your customers.

Regarding the free marked - i agree - against the other - what is it 
*exactly* that makes mxODBC a better quality product - noone has seemed 
to be able to tell (and yes - you do in the above claim that...). So i 
can't even tell my customers that [even if i believed that your argument 
of telling customers about developing methods have any substance for 
them *at all* (its the product that counts - not the methods)].

> 
> Kim Petersen wrote:
> 
> 
>>We work in teams - so that would be 1250*4 making the below calculation
>>18*4 (and we're not able to pull in freelancers on this kinda stuff then
>>- other than paying another 1250). 
> 
> 
> And how much would you pay these freelancers? Probably quite a
> substantial amount over the weeks or months that you retain them,
> and probably *far* in excess of the developer license cost for mxODBC.
> How much improved productivity will you get from those developers
> because they're not spending a week chasing weird bugs in the
> database/ODBC code?

essence of my argument - the pricing of this *little* (but essential) 
component drives the pricing of the end-product up a substantial amount 
- that imho is not corresponding to the usefulnes of the product. [and 
to use your argument from before - i need to find another product then].

> 
> I feel quite annoyed when people give out about having to pay money
> for software: someone, somewhere has to write that software: that
> someone has to pay the rent, the utility bills, etc, etc, etc, etc.
> Demanding that everyone work for nothing is completely unreasonable:
> just because you're too stingy to pay for what you get. Some OSS
> developers are fortunate enough that they don't have to charge money
> for their software, because the government, or the education system,
> or some charitable foundation, pays their wages. But that's not true
> for all OSS developers.

We already pay substantial amounts for software - including donations 
for opensource projects - so your tirade falls on a wrong spot. [In our 
endsystems i estimate around 60% goes to hardware 30% goes to royalties 
etc. (as we implement in OSS software a large amount of this returns - 
not as much as i would wish - but then thats something for my boss to 
decide)].

> 
> To those who continue to complain about having to pay for software,
> I say: If you don't like paying, fork the software, maintain your
> own product and let it be free (both in the free-speech and the
> free-beer senses): see how you long *you* last.

Can you mention even on spot where i complained against paying for 
software ? (hint: the amount - not that it has a price).

TANSTAAFL!
> 
> not-biting-the-hand-that-feeds-ly yrs.
> 




From owski at hotmail.com  Wed Jul 16 18:14:12 2003
From: owski at hotmail.com (Adam Ruth)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 22:14:12 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: anything like C++ references?
References: <qlq8hv8e7a5177o250c2fhvg9hv2lhfa15@4ax.com>  
	<20030715200433927-0600@news.xmission.com>  
	<1058328099.572993@yasure>  
	<20030716081156943-0600@news.xmission.com>  
	<donn-6E63A0.10284316072003@nntp1.u.washington.edu>  
	<20030716123907246-0600@news.xmission.com>  
	<donn-F604B9.12121916072003@nntp3.u.washington.edu>  
	<20030716142716509-0600@news.xmission.com> 
	<donn-708BC2.14330716072003@nntp3.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <20030716161405965-0600@news.xmission.com>

In <donn-708BC2.14330716072003 at nntp3.u.washington.edu> Donn Cave  wrote:
> In article <20030716142716509-0600 at news.xmission.com>,
>  Adam Ruth <owski at hotmail.com> wrote:
>> In <donn-F604B9.12121916072003 at nntp3.u.washington.edu> Donn Cave  
>> wrote:
>> > In article <20030716123907246-0600 at news.xmission.com>,
> ....
>> > OK, there really aren't any situations where you can't avoid
>> > pointers ... so you're ready with a solution to the problem
>> > I posed above?
> ....
>> As for your problem on the subscript operator, I think my solution is: 
>> there's no problem.  Having the get and set asymetric is preferrable, 
>> in  my view.  For example, I use it in a number of places where I 
>> cache the  set operation:
> 
> So after all it should be "there aren't any situations that I care
> about where you can't avoid pointers."  That's fine, it's really
> where we all come down in the end - life is too short to worry
> about solving problems you don't care about.  One should be clear
> about it, though.
> 
>    Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu
> 

"there aren't any situations that I care about where you can't avoid 
pointers." is certainly true.  But I still believe that there aren't any 
situations where the use of a pointer would provide a substantially 
better solution to the non-pointer route.  Any examples I've seen so far 
have non-pointer implementations that are just as good or better (of 
course, 'better' is a completely loaded word).  

In your example, the current implementation provides for a flexibility 
that doesn't exist in the pointer version.  The pointer version would 
provide for slightly more concise code, and possibly a slight 
performance boost, but I think that the flexibility outweighs both.  The 
point of my response wasn't to show that there's a good way to achieve 
what you're looking for without a pointer, but to show that there are 
better things to be looking for, and they don't require pointers.

So, I'll change my statement to this, "there aren't any situations where 
the use of a pointer would provide a significantly better solution".



From Adrien.DiMascio at logilab.fr  Wed Jul  9 02:29:55 2003
From: Adrien.DiMascio at logilab.fr (Adrien Di Mascio)
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 08:29:55 +0200
Subject: Unexpected (by me) exec behavior
In-Reply-To: <f9ff3f62.0307080718.419c9f4f@posting.google.com>
References: <f9ff3f62.0307080718.419c9f4f@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20030709062955.GA20087@logilab.fr>

Hi,
> ----------------------------
> # filename = t.py
> s1 = """
> s2 = \"\"\"
> import socket
> def xyz():
> 	print socket.gethostbyname('somehost')
> if __name__ == '__main__':
> 	xyz()
> \"\"\"
> 
> def abc():
> 	exec s2
> if __name__ == '__main__':
> 	abc()
> """
> 
> exec s1
> -----------------------------
I'll try to explain things as best as I can :
  - (1) When defining a variable in a new scope, it is added to the locals() dict.
  - (2) Calling exec without specifying any dict will cause to call it
        with globals() as global dict and locals() as local dict
  - (3) When you'll execute your script (t.py), globals() and locals()
        dict will be the same (they'll have the same id)

Consequences : 
  When you execute s1, globals() and locals() dict will be used, and
  they are the same. When entering the abc() func, a new local dict
  will be created (an "empty" one), so when you call exec s2, the two
  dict that will be taken will be globals(), and locals(), but they
  are not representing the same dict anymore since you're in the 'abc'
  scope and the locals() dict is thus "empty".
  
  When Python tries to execute s2, it will add socket into your local
  dict (not into the global one), then he will enter in the xyz()
  function, where it will create
  a new local dict because it will have just entered a new scope.
  Then in xyz(), neither globals(), nor locals() have a reference to
  'socket', that's why you have your NameError.

  To prevent this, you can always call "exec s2 in globals()" in the
  abc function. Then, both globals and locals will have the same id,
  so when Python will add "socket" to the locals dict, it will also
  add it to the globals() one, and "socket" will be found in the
  global dict.

Anyway, you're doing tricky things ...

Hope this helps.

Cheers,

-- 
Adrien Di Mascio
LOGILAB, Paris (France).
http://www.logilab.com   http://www.logilab.fr   http://www.logilab.org





From bokr at oz.net  Tue Jul 29 00:30:02 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 29 Jul 2003 04:30:02 GMT
Subject: pretty printing graphs
References: <mailman.1059412614.26573.python-list@python.org> <bg4ksi$spe$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <bg4t8a$g1f$1@216.39.172.122>

On 29 Jul 2003 02:07:14 GMT, bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) wrote:
[...]
>====< pphunter.py >==============================================
[...]
>class Node:
[...]
>
>    def showInPage(self, pageHeight=6*11, pageWidth=78):
>        return '\n'.join(self.boxlines(PageHeight, PageWidth))
>
should be
--
    def showInPage(self, pageHeight=6*11, pageWidth=78):
        return '\n'.join(self.boxlines(pageHeight, pageWidth))
--
[...]

Sorry.

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From kericks272 at earthlink.net  Thu Jul 24 01:31:17 2003
From: kericks272 at earthlink.net (ken)
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 05:31:17 GMT
Subject: python 2.2 string conversion ?
Message-ID: <FaKTa.117362$Io.10011057@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>

I've been looking for a solution to a string to long conversion problem that
I've run into

>>> x = 'e10ea210'
>>> print x
e10ea210
>>> y=long(x)
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<pyshell#2>", line 1, in ?
    y=long(x)
ValueError: invalid literal for long(): e10ea210
>>> x='0xe10ea210'
>>> print x
0xe10ea210
>>> y=long(x)
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<pyshell#5>", line 1, in ?
    y=long(x)
ValueError: invalid literal for long(): 0xe10ea210
>>> x="e10ea210"
>>> y=long(x)
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<pyshell#7>", line 1, in ?
    y=long(x)
ValueError: invalid literal for long(): e10ea210
>>> x="0xe10ea210"
>>> y=long(x)
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<pyshell#9>", line 1, in ?
    y=long(x)
ValueError: invalid literal for long(): 0xe10ea210
>>>

What am I doing wrong?

TIA





From skip at pobox.com  Sun Jul 20 12:23:52 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 11:23:52 -0500
Subject: non-ASCII characters IDLE 1.0 rc1 bugs
In-Reply-To: <RztSa.28234$FN3.2363410@news.ono.com>
References: <RztSa.28234$FN3.2363410@news.ono.com>
Message-ID: <16154.49688.415680.385013@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    Barto> I have downloaded and installed Python 2.3 RC1 in a Windows 98 SE
    Barto> computer. IDLE 1.0 does not work very well:

Can you post a bug report to Sourceforge?

Skip




From alanmk at hotmail.com  Fri Jul 11 06:06:49 2003
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 11:06:49 +0100
Subject: Windows XP - Environment variable - Unicode
References: <3f0e77fc@epflnews.epfl.ch>
Message-ID: <3F0E8C39.E36233B6@hotmail.com>

sebastien.hugues wrote:
> I would like to retrieve the application data directory path of the
> logged user on windows XP. To achieve this goal i use the
> environment variable APPDATA.
> 
> The logged user has this name: s?bastien.
> I would like to first decode this string and then re-encode it in
> utf-8, but i am not able to find out what encoding is used when i
> make:
> 
> appdata = os.environ ['APPDATA']
> 
> Any ideas ?

Are you setting the environment at a windows command prompt, i.e.
under cmd.exe? If yes, then type following command to find out what
character set encoding is in use in that terminal:

chcp

Most likely it will be "cp850", i.e. "Code page 850". Assuming that
"chcp" does report "cp850", then this code should achieve what you
need (tested on Win2k only, not XP, but should be same)

C:\>set APPDATA="s?bastien"
C:\>python
Python 2.2.3 (#42, May 30 2003, 18:12:08) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on
win32
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import os
>>> username = os.environ['APPDATA'].decode('cp850')
>>> username
u'"s\xdabastien"'
>>>

Of course, you will get a "UnicodeError: ASCII encoding error: ordinal
not in range(128)" if you try to print that, but it should be usable
for making up filenames.

Of course, this may not work if the APPDATA environment variable is
set outside a command window. If, for example, it was set through the
control panel, then it should be in the system default encoding. But
we'll cross that bridge when we come to it.

Note also that "chcp" stands for "change code page", meaning that you
can change the character set used by the terminal. A list of character
sets supported can be found here:

http://www.microsoft.com/globaldev/reference/wincp.mspx

Let us know if that works.

-- 
alan kennedy
-----------------------------------------------------
check http headers here: http://xhaus.com/headers
email alan:              http://xhaus.com/mailto/alan



From matthias.oberlaender at VOID.daimlerchrysler.com  Fri Jul  4 09:57:35 2003
From: matthias.oberlaender at VOID.daimlerchrysler.com (Matthias Oberlaender)
Date: 4 Jul 2003 13:57:35 GMT
Subject: cooperation of buitlin methods usingtsuper
References: <bduh36$rgn$1@news.sns-felb.debis.de> <2259b0e2.0307020855.478300c2@posting.google.com> 
	<be0lic$rgn$2@news.sns-felb.debis.de> <2259b0e2.0307030652.697001dd@posting.google.com> 
	<be23nd$aqp$0@216.39.172.122> <2259b0e2.0307040511.1eb91faa@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <be414f$rgn$3@news.sns-felb.debis.de>

In <2259b0e2.0307040511.1eb91faa at posting.google.com> Michele Simionato wrote:
<snip>
> To add trickyness to trickyness, I show you a couple of examples where
> the same problems appear. These examples (or examples similar to them)
> where pointed out to me by Bjorn Pettersen. The real problem seems to be
> in the lookup rule for len(x) which is not always equivalent to
> x.__len__() when tricks with __getattr__ are performed:
> 
> First example: defining __len__ on the object does not work
> 
> class E(object):
>     def __getattr__(self,name):
>             if name=='__len__': return lambda:0
> 
> >>> e=E()
> >>> e.__len__()
> 0
> >>> len(e)
> Traceback ...
> 
> Second example: defining __len__ on the class does not work:
> 
> class M(type):
>     def __getattr__(self,name):
>             if name=='__len__': return lambda self:0
> 
> class F: __metaclass__=M
> 
> >>> f=F()
> >>> F.__len__(f) # okay
> 0
> >>> len(f) # TypeError: len() of unsized object
> f.__len__() # AttributeError: 'F' object has no attribute '__len__'
> 
> As you see, the problem is that len(x) is not calling x.__len__(),
> nor x.__class__.__len__(x); I really would like to know how ``len`` 
> (or ``str``, ``repr``, etc.) work: I think this is the core of
> the problem, whereas ``super`` is probably a red herring.
> 
>                                   Michele
> 
Yes, I very nuch support this question: How do the builtins work exactly? 
Where is all this documented?
Nevertheless, my impression remains that  builtins and super do not play 
consistently together. Again, there is not much documentation concerning 
super either. It's still listed under 'Built-in Functions' in section 21 of 
the Library Reference, but actually t's a type. 

Well, Python's evolutionary character is both its strength and weakness.

P.S. I will remain silent for the next couple of days. Thanks for the 
discussion so far. And I'll think about the idea of filing a (documentation) 
bug report as suggested by Michele. Would be my first one so I have to figure 
out how to do that. 

--
 ____  __  _/_/ . 
( / / ( /  / / /  

=====================================================================
Matthias Oberlaender, DaimlerChrysler AG, Research Center Ulm
RIC/AP (Machine Perception)
Wilhelm-Runge-Str. 11,  P.O. Box 2360,  89013 Ulm, Germany
Phone: +49 731 505 2354       Fax: +49 731 505 4105
Email: matthias.oberlaender at REMOVE.daimlerchrysler.com
=====================================================================




From dave at boost-consulting.com  Mon Jul 28 10:20:59 2003
From: dave at boost-consulting.com (David Abrahams)
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 10:20:59 -0400
Subject: boost::python> exposing instances from c++
References: <20030727162245.07099.00000480@mb-m12.aol.com>
Message-ID: <usmoqpwac.fsf@boost-consulting.com>

Dear Mr. Handheld Vacuum,

You will probably get better answers to your Boost.Python questions
if you post them to the C++-sig.  See
http://www.boost.org/more/mailing_lists.htm#Cplussig.

thedustbustr at aol.com (TheDustbustr) writes:

> I'm writing a game in C++ which calls out to python for scripting.  I'd like to
> expose the instance of my Game class (a singleton) to python (so that the
> instances of Clock, Camera, etc are available to the scripts).
>
> I ran into trouble trying to expose a specific instance (or even a function
> returning the instance).  Here is a simplification of my problem in code (c++):
>
> <code>
> class A{
> public:
>     int i;
> };
> class B{
> public:
>     A a;
> };
> B b;
> B getb() {return b;} //return the instance
>
> int main() {
>     getb().a.i = 42;
>     return 0;}
> #include <boost/python/module.hpp>
> #include <boost/python/class.hpp>
> #include <boost/python/def.hpp>
> using namespace boost::python;
> BOOST_PYTHON_MODULE(hello)
> {
>     class_<A>("A",init<>())
>         .def("i", &A::i);
>     class_<B>("B",init<>())
>         .def("a", &B::a);
>     def("getb", getb);
> }
> </code>
>
> Of course, I would be calling any python script using these classes from within
> main().
>
> This doesn't compile (using bjam with msvc).  If I return by reference or
> pointers in getb it gets ugly (like pages and pages of error messages).  Am I
> doing this the right way?  How do I expose an instance to python?

-- 
Dave Abrahams
Boost Consulting
www.boost-consulting.com



From sjmachin at lexicon.net  Fri Jul 18 09:13:21 2003
From: sjmachin at lexicon.net (John Machin)
Date: 18 Jul 2003 06:13:21 -0700
Subject: scanf string in python
References: <bf7ut5$vf8$03$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <c76ff6fc.0307180513.31b9ed2b@posting.google.com>

lehrig <lehrig at t-online.de> wrote in message news:<bf7ut5$vf8$03$1 at news.t-online.com>...
> I have a string which is returned by a C extension.
> 
> mystring = '(1,2,3)'
> 
> HOW can I read the numbers in python ?

That's a very strange C extension, which returns a string that just
happens to look similar to the repr() of a tuple ... What's the name
of the C extension? Where did you get it from? If you are the author,
would you like to be shown how to make it return a tuple? That way,
all the caller has to do is:

x, y, z = my_extn.some_func(.........)



From hahaha at iol.it  Mon Jul 28 05:22:09 2003
From: hahaha at iol.it (nneo)
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 11:22:09 +0200
Subject: python on windos os.popen and standart in and out
References: <bg1hnt$jufqn$1@ID-181971.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <bg2qfe$j3t$1@newsreader.mailgate.org>

On Sun, 27 Jul 2003 23:54:18 +0200, J?rg Maier wrote:

>  when giving 'w' as second parameter, i just can write,
> but not read. ssh is installed by cygwin. i dont want to use ssh-keys,
> because user shold be able to use the program on different machines
> without much key-copying.

Instead of os.popen try os.popen2 which gives
back 2 pipes , one to read and onother to write to you application .

p1 , p2 = os.popen2("foo")



From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Thu Jul 24 15:45:59 2003
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 15:45:59 -0400
Subject: Associating file types to my Python program
References: <Xns93C2BBA60F6BEt45fs6vve@130.133.1.4>
Message-ID: <vi0dsmks541d25@news.supernews.com>

"Psymaster" <roa81NOSPAM at hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns93C2BBA60F6BEt45fs6vve at 130.133.1.4...
> How could I do that? I'm writing an image viewer and I would
> want to associate all images to be opened with my proggie when
> they are double-clicked.

Do  you really want to do that? I'd advise going a bit
slow, and just get an item on the context menu for
starters. Look at HKCR\SystemFileAssociations\Image\Shell
and put your command in there. It will pop up on
the context menu for all file extensions that have
a "PercievedType" of "Image", at least under Windows XP.

Then if you want to make some of them the default,
you can go ahead, but that's actually a bit more
difficult since it has to be done file type by file type;
there's no way of doing it wholesale.

Just remember one thing: learn the registry editor
thoroughly first. Appendix A of the Microsoft
Windows XP Registry Guide can be quite helpful
if you want to hack file associations.

John Roth





From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Tue Jul 15 05:45:27 2003
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 10:45:27 +0100
Subject: Python Mystery Theatre -- Episode 2:  Así  Fue
References: <VorQa.15236$Kw1.587@nwrdny02.gnilink.net>
 <8f35dab2.0307141258.3da9b9d4@posting.google.com>
 <PGJQa.485$LW3.252@nwrdny02.gnilink.net>
 <6qvfu4jgh1.fsf@salmakis.intevation.de>
Message-ID: <m4UoZJA308E$EwjN@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>

In article <6qvfu4jgh1.fsf at salmakis.intevation.de>, Bernhard Herzog
<bh at intevation.de> writes
>"Raymond Hettinger" <vze4rx4y at verizon.net> writes:
>
>> [Jason Trowbridge]
>> > Act I
>> > I didn't know that python formatting could do that!  I've always
>> > treated it like C's printf-style of statements, as that seems to be
>> > what it's primarily based off.
>> 
>> That's why this one was included.
>> Hope everyone learned something new.
>
>C's printf can do this too. At least the one in the GNU libc can. It's
>docs don't say anything about this being a GNU extension so I guess it
>can be found in other libcs as well, though probably not in all.
>
>   Bernhard
>
I know that it's in microsoft

the print width description contains

'''If the width specification is an asterisk (*), an int argument from
the argument list supplies the value. The width argument must precede
the value being formatted in the argument list. A nonexistent or small
field width does not cause the truncation of a field; if the result of a
conversion is wider than the field width, the field expands to contain
the conversion result.'''
-- 
Robin Becker



From bgailer at alum.rpi.edu  Mon Jul  7 09:21:14 2003
From: bgailer at alum.rpi.edu (Bob Gailer)
Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 07:21:14 -0600
Subject: anything new on the ternary operator?
In-Reply-To: <%G4Oa.22187$Ey6.10119@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net>
References: <mailman.1057533670.9800.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20030707071708.0240c188@66.28.54.253>

At 02:13 AM 7/7/2003 +0000, Russell Reagan wrote:

>"Bob Gailer" <bgailer at alum.rpi.edu> wrote
>
> > I was looking forward to having it.
>
>"Sean Ross" <sross at connectmail.carleton.ca> wrote
>
> > - (if C: x else: y) won the vote
>
>I'm still learning python, so don't flame too much :-)
>
>What is superior about using the proposed ternary operator instead of using
>the 'and' and 'or' operators to simulate inline logic?

The ternary op
   if a: b else: y
would implement
   if a:result = b
   else: result = c
which is not identical to
   result = a and b or c

Bob Gailer
bgailer at alum.rpi.edu
303 442 2625
-------------- next part --------------

---
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Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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From grobinson at transpose.com  Tue Jul 29 16:05:46 2003
From: grobinson at transpose.com (Gary Robinson)
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 16:05:46 -0400
Subject: bisect uses __cmp__()?
Message-ID: <BB4C4BDA.2ADD4%grobinson@transpose.com>

I'm wondering if bisect.insort is guaranteed to use a __cmp__ method, for
now and for future python versions, if it exists, for the items being
inserted?

That would be good to know because then you don't have to define __lt__ etc.
if all you care about is being able to use bisect.insort.

If true, I suggest that it might be good to mention the bisect library docs.
In any case, if there is a clear answer to my question I'd appreciate
knowing what it is...

--Gary

-- 
Putting http://wecanstopspam.org in your email helps it pass through
overzealous spam filters.

Gary Robinson
CEO
Transpose, LLC
grobinson at transpose.com
207-942-3463
http://www.transpose.com
http://radio.weblogs.com/0101454






From sross at connectmail.carleton.ca  Sun Jul  6 16:18:45 2003
From: sross at connectmail.carleton.ca (Sean Ross)
Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2003 16:18:45 -0400
Subject: Search for mapping solution
References: <be9t66$2otne$1@ID-47851.news.dfncis.de> <3F087E85.9D8018E9@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <aw%Na.5962$Tx.86640@news20.bellglobal.com>

"Alan Kennedy" <alanmk at hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3F087E85.9D8018E9 at hotmail.com...
> >>> lines =
[['fred','333','0,10'],['sam','444','1'],['fred','333','0,50']]
> >>> d = dict([(x[0], x[2]) for x in lines])
> >>> d
> {'sam': '1', 'fred': '0,50'}
> >>>

Hi.  You've left out the accumulating part of the OP's requirements:

lines = [['fred','333','0.10'],['sam','444','1'],['fred','333','0.50']]
costs = {}
# nearly identical to Achim's solution, but with a list comp.
[costs.__setitem__(name, costs.get(name,0)+float(price))
         for name, number, price in lines]
print costs
# outputs: {'sam': 1.0, 'fred': 0.60}





From rajarshi at presidency.com  Tue Jul 29 17:35:58 2003
From: rajarshi at presidency.com (Rajarshi Guha)
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 17:35:58 -0400
Subject: searching for matches within a word list
Message-ID: <pan.2003.07.29.21.35.57.62265.14802@presidency.com>

Hi,
  I have a large list of words (each on its own line) 
and I would like to find words that contain a specific string.

I have been trying to use a regexp but I cant see how I can find the
word that contained the regex pattern - all I get is the pattern itself
if I use match or findall.

I know that I could just go through the list line by line and see if the
regex matches or not - but that method seems horifically inefficient.

Does anybody have any suggestions as to how I could solve this
efficiently?

Thanks,
Rajarshi



From guido at python.org  Wed Jul  2 12:57:03 2003
From: guido at python.org (Guido van Rossum)
Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 12:57:03 -0400
Subject: OSCON lightning talks -- submit yours now!
Message-ID: <200307021657.h62Gv3J17192@pcp02138704pcs.reston01.va.comcast.net>

We still have a few lightning talk slots open for the Python
conference at OSCON (the O'Reilly Open Source Conference, July 7-11 in
Portland, Oregon -- http://conferences.oreillynet.com/os2003/ ).

A lightning talk is a presentation of no more than 5 minutes (we'll
have a gong!) on any subject that you think might interest Python
users or developers.  The Python lightning talks session is Thursday
afternoon (July 10) from 4:30 till 6 pm.

To submit your proposal, send email to David Ascher
<DavidA at ActiveState.com> with "lightning" in the subject.  He'll be
accepting proposals until late in the game (even in person at the
conference), but slots will be assigned first-come first-serve, so
don't wait too long!

If you've never heard of lightning talks, you can find out more 
information at:

    http://perl.plover.com/lt/osc2003/lightning-talks.html

But ignore the submission informations on that site, just send email
to David as explained above.

See you in Portland,

  Guido and David

--Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)




From mwh at python.net  Tue Jul 29 07:59:47 2003
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 11:59:47 GMT
Subject: metaclasses
References: <pan.2003.07.28.22.25.25.311058@webone.com.au>
Message-ID: <7h37k61k0h2.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

Simon Burton <simonb at webone.com.au> writes:

> It seems this is a more general way to build classes than inheritance.
> Is this a reasonable viewpoint?

Yes, in a sense a class statement is just syntactic sugar for what you
wrote.  Class statements are a bit more readable, though :-)

Cheers,
mwh

-- 
 As it seems to me, in Perl you have to be an expert to correctly make
 a nested data structure like, say, a list of hashes of instances.  In
 Python, you have to be an idiot not  to be able to do it, because you
 just write it down.             -- Peter Norvig, comp.lang.functional



From gh at ghaering.de  Fri Jul 18 05:41:23 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?UTF-8?B?R2VyaGFyZCBIw6RyaW5n?=)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 11:41:23 +0200
Subject: Unicode question
In-Reply-To: <pan.2003.07.18.01.59.38.588766@zmail.pt>
References: <mailman.1058456911.22551.python-list@python.org>
	<65m1yubd.fsf@python.net>
	<mailman.1058486849.6595.python-list@python.org>
	<pan.2003.07.18.01.59.38.588766@zmail.pt>
Message-ID: <3F17C0C3.6040309@ghaering.de>

Ricardo Bugalho wrote:
> On Fri, 18 Jul 2003 02:07:13 +0200, Gerhard H?ring wrote:
>>>Gerhard H?ring <gh at ghaering.de> writes:
>>>>>>>u"???"
>>>>u'\x84\x94\x81'
>>>> [this works, but IMO shouldn't]
> 
> You can use string literals in any encoding like this:
> 'string in my favorite encoding'.decode('my favorite encoding'). 
> Note that the lack of the u prefix. Not very confortable though..
> u'string' ends up doing the same as 'string'.decode('latin1').

Yep. It's the latin1 default that I'm critizizing.

> It doesn't work for docstrings though..
> 
> I'm not sure for what you mean about encoding cookie, 

See PEP 263 @ http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0263.html

> but I like the idea
> of each source file having some element that defines the encoding used to
> process string literals.

Then you'll like that exactly this is implemented in Python 2.3:

#!/usr/bin/python
# -*- coding: latin1 -*-
...

> Either that or we define the Python code must be written in UTF-8. 

You can do that in Python 2.3 as well. Just save your source file with a 
  UTF-8 BOM and you don't even have to explicitly define an encoding 
using an encoding cookie.

> But that would break lots of code.. :D

You'll get warnings if you don't define an encoding (either encoding 
cookie or BOM) and use 8-Bit characters in your source files. These 
warnings will becomome errors in later Python versions.

It's all in the PEP :)

-- Gerhard




From scpusenet at werbung.schabi.de  Tue Jul  8 03:30:08 2003
From: scpusenet at werbung.schabi.de (Markus Schaber)
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 09:30:08 +0200
Subject: Apache mod_python and Sessions
References: <20030704131617.4b1a73ca.scpusenet@werbung.schabi.de>
	<20030707091923.1f12f872.scpusenet@werbung.schabi.de>
	<3f09b2cf$0$49098$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <20030708093008.651035f7.scpusenet@werbung.schabi.de>

Hello,

On Mon, 07 Jul 2003 19:50:11 +0200
Irmen de Jong <irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl> wrote:

> Markus Schaber wrote:
> > python_weblib that does what I need (Additionally, my boss suggested
> > that we should not use mod_python but CGI instead.)
> 
> What!? Why!?
> Any sane explanation why you should go with slow, outdated CGI scripts
> instead of the nice, fast web server integration of mod_python?

The script will have a very low usage (maybe about ten sessions a month). And it spends lots of time doing ldap database queries, so the starting overhead doesn't hurt so much.

Additionally, the webserver currently doesn't have mod_python installed, and there is the fear that every additional module has disadvantages (bigger startup/fork time, potential bugs, memory footprint).

I hope that these two argumens are "sane" in your world, at least they are sane enough for my boss.

Greets,
Markus




From michaeljmoore at comcast.net  Mon Jul 21 00:23:28 2003
From: michaeljmoore at comcast.net (Michael J. Moore)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 04:23:28 GMT
Subject: ODBC to Oracle (data source name not found)
Message-ID: <4VJSa.97003$GL4.26848@rwcrnsc53>

I have set up an ODBC connection to an oracle database named MIKE on my
local machine. I have tested this ODBC connection using EXCEL and it works
fine. The same data source results in ...
-----------------
Python 2.2.3 (#42, May 30 2003, 18:12:08) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import dbi
>>> import odbc
>>> d=odbc.odbc('mike/mike/guess')
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
dbi.operation-error: [Microsoft][ODBC Driver Manager] Data source name not
found
 and no default driver specified in LOGIN
>>>


What am I not doing correctly?
TIA Mike





From danbmil99 at yahoo.com  Thu Jul 24 22:15:35 2003
From: danbmil99 at yahoo.com (dan)
Date: 24 Jul 2003 19:15:35 -0700
Subject: python assignment
References: <mailman.1058992140.17079.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <fbf8d8f2.0307241815.28d5637@posting.google.com>

"Tim Peters" <tim.one at comcast.net> wrote in message news:<mailman.1058992140.17079.python-list at python.org>...
> [Tim]
...
> Bjorn added more appropriate words -- it would be bad design for the
> __iadd__ method of a mutable type to return a pre-existing object other than
> self.
> 
> >>> a = [1, 2]
> >>> b = [1]
> >>> b += [2]
> 
> While "a == b" must be true at this point, it would be a nightmare if "a is
> b" could be true at this point.  For immutable types it doesn't matter:
> 
> >>> a = (1, 2)
> >>> b = (1,)
> >>> b += (2,)
> 
> It so happens that "a is b" is not true at this point under any Python
> released so far, but it could be true someday without causing harm.
> 
> Sorry for the confusion!

Ok, that makes sense to me.  I still think it would be a good idea to
put a section in the Tutorial -- perhaps under "for computer
scientists and those who want to learn more" -- describing how Python
binds names to objects.

In particular, the fact that a list is a list of pointers, not the
objects themselves, seems like an important point to make, even for
relative newcomers.

Here's the thing that tripped me up, and the solution I came up with,
which I am now unsure of:

#original code -- v[] is a list

  for x in range(n):
    temp = [x+y for y in range(3)]   #or whatever
    v[x] = temp

so I was quite surprised to find all members of v[] were in  fact
pointers to one object, temp[].

My solution, which I'm worried about, was this:

  for x in range(n):
    temp = [x+y for y in range(3)]   #or whatever
    v[x] = temp + []                 #'assignment by copy'???

So I'm still unclear as to whether an expression like temp+[] is
defined as returning a new list or not.  Seems like it might be
undefined, since either way is arguably 'correct'.



From trentm at ActiveState.com  Tue Jul 22 17:46:33 2003
From: trentm at ActiveState.com (Trent Mick)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 14:46:33 -0700
Subject: python22_d.lib?
In-Reply-To: <BIEJKCLHCIOIHAGOKOLHEEIKGGAA.tim.one@comcast.net>; from tim.one@comcast.net on Tue, Jul 22, 2003 at 02:21:53PM -0400
References: <bfjth8$jq3$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk> <BIEJKCLHCIOIHAGOKOLHEEIKGGAA.tim.one@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <20030722144632.D3074@ActiveState.com>

[Tim Peters wrote]
> > I have 2.2.3, but nowhere is there such a library. Must I get the source
> > and build it myself?
> 
> Yes.  Or ActiveState may still have one available for download.

Yes, but note that the current "debug libs" package is for Python 2.2.2
rather than Python 2.2.3:
    http://ftp.activestate.com/ActivePython/etc/ActivePython-2.2.2-224-win32-ix86.debug.zip

Cheers,
Trent


-- 
Trent Mick
TrentM at ActiveState.com




From paul_rudin at scientia.com  Tue Jul 22 11:33:51 2003
From: paul_rudin at scientia.com (Paul Rudin)
Date: 22 Jul 2003 16:33:51 +0100
Subject: How to save web pages for offline reading?
References: <cb035744.0307210131.5cfbc890@posting.google.com> <bfge1v$e6v86$1@ID-63505.news.uni-berlin.de> <cb035744.0307210848.6b1328d1@posting.google.com> <slrnbho797.u9.sybrenUSE@sybren.thirdtower.com> <cb035744.0307212238.2ea9c46@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <ubrvmshi8.fsf@scientia.com>

>>>>> "Will" == Will Stuyvesant <hwlgw at hotmail.com> writes:

    > There is no "man wget" on Windows :-) And unfortunately the GNU
    > Windows port of wget I have (version 1-5-3-1) does not have that
    > --page-requisites parameter.

You need cygwin <http://www.cygwin.com>. That way you get "man wget"
and a wget that has a --page-requisites option on your windows box.



From BartolomeSintes at ono.com  Thu Jul 10 12:28:32 2003
From: BartolomeSintes at ono.com (Bartolomé Sintes Marco)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 16:28:32 GMT
Subject: delete file
References: <2c6431ab.0307100711.780a65ad@posting.google.com> <mailman.1057851734.20147.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <QugPa.26879$FN3.2233696@news.ono.com>

I have a program that unzip some zip files. After unzipping them,
I want to delete the zip files with os.remove, but I get this error:
OSError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: ....
What can I do?

Thanks,





From mis6 at pitt.edu  Wed Jul 30 08:19:07 2003
From: mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato)
Date: 30 Jul 2003 05:19:07 -0700
Subject: while (assignment):
References: <slrnbicopb.6gh.sybrenUSE@sybren.thirdtower.com> <840592e1.0307291501.42b1156e@posting.google.com> <slrnbieppo.86l.sybrenUSE@sybren.thirdtower.com>
Message-ID: <2259b0e2.0307300419.124c040b@posting.google.com>

Sybren Stuvel <sybrenUSE at YOURthirdtower.imagination.com> wrote in message news:<slrnbieppo.86l.sybrenUSE at sybren.thirdtower.com>...
> Hannu Kankaanp?? enlightened us with:
> > Typically this is done by breaking out of the loop:
> > 
> > while True:
> >     info = mydbcursor.fetchone()
> >     if not info:
> >         break
> >     print "Information: "+str(info)
> 
> This was my first solution as well. Kinda ugly, though.
> 
> Sybren

When I started using Python I though the "while 1" idiom was horrible.
Now I think it is quite Pythonic. Few months can change your mind! ;)

You may also use this form, which you may find more readable:

while 'info': 
     info = mydbcursor.fetchone()
     if not info: break
     print "Information: "+str(info)

Remember, 'info' is another spelling of True!
This is a trick anyway, and I always use "while 1" in my code, it is
the idiomatic way at the end.

                        Michele



From jepler at unpythonic.net  Sun Jul 27 22:26:22 2003
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 21:26:22 -0500
Subject: file.close()
In-Reply-To: <3F2460C7.44B8B046@alcyone.com>
References: <edITa.131868$Ph3.17333@sccrnsc04> <mailman.1059052897.16526.python-list@python.org> <HBF.20030725xvv1@bombur.uio.no> <2inav-q64.ln1@beastie.ix.netcom.com> <3F2460C7.44B8B046@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <20030728022622.GB7068@unpythonic.net>

On Sun, Jul 27, 2003 at 04:31:19PM -0700, Erik Max Francis wrote:
> You haven't
> demonstrated a case where there actually is an I/O error that occurs
> when .close gets called.

What makes you believe that a Python file object's "close" can never error?
"close" corresponds to the fclose() function of the C standard library,
and the manpages have plenty to say on the subject (see below).

I just created a small filesystem (1000 1k blocks, over half of which
was used by filesystem overhead) and got Python to do this:
>>> f = open("/mnt/tmp/x", "w")
>>> f.write("x" * (453*1024+511))
>>> f.close()
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
IOError: [Errno 28] No space left on device

Curiously enough, this doesn't even print the 'Exception in __del__ ignored' message:
>>> f = open("/mnt/tmp/x", "w")
>>> f.write("x" * (453*1024+511))
>>> del f
even though the failed stdio fclose must still have been called.

stdio buffering kept the last few bytes of the f.write() from actually
being sent to the disk, but the f.close() call must dump them to the disk,
at which time the "disk full" condition is actually seen.  While I had
to contrive this situation for this message, it's exactly the kind of
thing that will to happen to you when your software is at the customer's
site and you've left for a month in rural Honduras where there aren't
any easily-accessible phones, let alone easy internet access.

Jeff

[from `man fclose']
RETURN VALUE
       Upon  successful  completion 0 is returned.  Otherwise, EOF is returned
       and the global variable errno is set to indicate the error.  In  either
       case  any  further  access  (including another call to fclose()) to the
       stream results in undefined behaviour.
[...]
       The fclose function may also fail and set errno for any of  the  errors
       specified for the routines close(2), write(2) or fflush(3).

[from `man close']
ERRORS
       EBADF  fd isn?t a valid open file descriptor.

       EINTR  The close() call was interrupted by a signal.

       EIO    An I/O error occurred.

[from `man write']
ERRORS
       EBADF  fd is not a valid file descriptor or is not open for writing.

       EINVAL fd is attached to an object which is unsuitable for writing.

       EFAULT buf is outside your accessible address space.

       EFBIG  An attempt was made to write a file that exceeds the implementa-
              tion-defined maximum file size or the process? file size  limit,
              or  to write at a position past than the maximum allowed offset.

       EPIPE  fd is connected to a pipe or socket whose reading end is closed.
              When  this  happens the writing process will also receive a SIG-
              PIPE signal.  (Thus, the write return value is seen only if  the
              program catches, blocks or ignores this signal.)

       EAGAIN Non-blocking  I/O  has  been  selected  using O_NONBLOCK and the
              write would block.

       EINTR  The call was interrupted by a signal before any data  was  writ-
              ten.

       ENOSPC The device containing the file referred to by fd has no room for
              the data.

       EIO    A low-level I/O error occurred while modifying the inode.

       Other errors may occur, depending on the object connected to fd.

[from `man fflush']
ERRORS
       EBADF  Stream is not an open stream, or is not open for writing.

       The  function  fflush may also fail and set errno for any of the errors
       specified for the routine write(2).






From donn at drizzle.com  Thu Jul 10 01:26:14 2003
From: donn at drizzle.com (Donn Cave)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 05:26:14 -0000
Subject: Embedding Python, threading and scalability
References: <20E0F651F8B82F45ABCBACC58A2D995B0518AD@mexper1> <mailman.1057809015.26295.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1057814773.188737@yasure>

Quoth Jeff Epler <jepler at unpythonic.net>:
| On Thu, Jul 10, 2003 at 11:14:47AM +0800, Simon Wittber (Maptek) wrote:
|> Seriously though, this is an issue, which is a major hurdle Python *has*
|> to cross if it is ever going to be seriously considered for use on large
|> projects, on large SMP hardware.
|
| Has anybody proposed "how to get there from here" for this problem
| (useful multithreading of non-blocking pure Python code)?  I'm not
| bright enough to see how, that's for sure.  Especially if you are
| talking about an incremental approach, not the mythical "Python 3000".
| What I mean is that you have to work this magic *and* somehow let
| existing modules written in C work, with at worst a recompile.  (as
| someone who doesn't *need* threads, but works on a project with piles of
| Python modules written in C, that's my bias anyway)

Ha - I knew I'd find an answer for this if I searched for "free threading" -
and among other hits, I found this very thread!  So in Andrew Dalke's words:

> Ahh, the Global Interpreter Lock (GIL). 
>
> Years ago, Greg Stein had a version of Python 1.4 running with no GIL. 
>
> http://www.python.org/ftp/python/contrib-09-Dec-1999/System/threading.README
>
> Search for "free threading" to get more hits on this topic. 

At any rate, it sure isn't because Guido can't scare up an SMP machine.

| I've written Python programs that use threads in a way that was expedient
| to get a user interface running without long seizures, while I've never
| written a thread in tcl or perl.  OTOH if I'd had to treat everything
| as explicit message passing (a la tcl threading), I'd have just found
| another way (like "after idle" and "update" in tcl)

Hm, not sure what you're alluding to here.  I actually kind of like an
I/O thread dispatch model myself, but I don't think Python cares either
way nor would it if the GIL were abolished.

| Jython will give you Java's thread model today, for Python code, won't
| it?  Back when I benchmarked it, Jython code and Python code ran at
| fairly similar speeds (in pybench), if only you had a machine that could
| keep the Jython interpreter from swapping...

Don't know, but I noticed in another thread among the hits that Ype Kingma
asserts that Jython does indeed support fine grained multithreading.

	Donn Cave, donn at drizzle.com



From shane at zope.com  Mon Jul 28 11:57:40 2003
From: shane at zope.com (Shane Hathaway)
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 11:57:40 -0400
Subject: Debugging Python ?
In-Reply-To: <16165.13944.763754.224629@montanaro.dyndns.org>
References: <008a01c354ad$5a52d840$6400a8c0@EVOD31> <16165.13944.763754.224629@montanaro.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <3F2547F4.4020601@zope.com>

Skip Montanaro wrote:
>     Bill> I'd be happy to hear your techniques to debug python programs.
> 
> Crude though it may seem, I find print statements quite effective.  Works in
> all environments as well. ;-)

As a bonus, I find that print statements do not rightfully belong in 
most of the software I write.  Therefore I can happily add print 
statements anywhere for debugging purposes, knowing that removing them 
later is perfectly safe.

Shane





From dan at osheim.org  Mon Jul 14 22:37:00 2003
From: dan at osheim.org (Dan Williams)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 21:37:00 -0500
Subject: itertools.take?
Message-ID: <vh6q7cl5ifin20@corp.supernews.com>

Is there any interest in adding a "Haskellish" take function to 
itertools? I know its easy enough to roll my own, I've been using:

take = lambda iter, n: [x for x in itertools.islice(iter, 0, n)]

which works, but I was wondering if it was common enough to get into 
itertools?

-Dan




From nospam at here.com  Fri Jul  4 13:21:39 2003
From: nospam at here.com (Richard Townsend)
Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 18:21:39 +0100
Subject: bug in Tkinter? invalid literal for int() line 1035
References: <newscache$6z3ihh$1ph$1@cache3.nc3a.nato.int> <mailman.1057326192.22017.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1057339224.48048.0@damia.uk.clara.net>

"Fredrik Lundh" <fredrik at pythonware.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.1057326192.22017.python-list at python.org...
> Ton K. wrote:
>
> > I get subject when binding <Button-1> to a listbox.
> > The value for h is '??' which triggers the error.
> > I'm running Python 2.2.2 from SuSE.
>
> you're using a version of Tk that's newer than your Tkinter; that "??"
> you're seeing how really recent versions of Tk represent an "undefined
> integer value"...
>
> this has been fixed in Python 2.3, so you can either upgrade Python
> or link against an older Tk.
>
> (or modify Tkinter.py slightly, adding try/except clauses around the
> problem spots in Tkinter.py)
>
> </F>
>
>

If you are running SuSE 8.2 there is a fix on
http://www.suse.de/en/private/download/updates/82_i386.html for this
problem.

Look for the python-tk 2.2.2 link, dated 18 April 2003.

RT







From exarkun at twistedmatrix.com  Tue Jul  8 06:17:44 2003
From: exarkun at twistedmatrix.com (Jp Calderone)
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 06:17:44 -0400
Subject: Python vs PHP
In-Reply-To: <ig2lgvokd5ohvc2e7df2p11ptlk4nedj34@4ax.com>
References: <mailman.1057574470.1750.python-list@python.org> <ig2lgvokd5ohvc2e7df2p11ptlk4nedj34@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <20030708101736.GA3899@intarweb.us>

On Tue, Jul 08, 2003 at 11:14:10AM +0200, Jaroslaw Zabiello wrote:
> On Mon, 07 Jul 2003 13:47:00 +0300, Catalin
> <ady982 at ploiesti.astral.ro> wrote:
> 
> >Can Python replace PHP?
> 
> Sure. Look at http://spyce.sourceforge.net
> 

  Lest the OP think Spyce is the only or even the preferred solution for web
programming with Python:

    http://cherrypy.org/

    http://www.twistedmatrix.com/

    http://skunkweb.sf.net

    http://webware.sf.net

    http://zope.org

    http://www.mems-exchange.org/software/quixote/

    http://www.object-craft.com.au/projects/albatross

    http://jonpy.sf.net

    http://jotweb.tummy.com/

  And let's not forget plain old CGI and mod_python.

  Jp

-- 
"There is no reason for any individual to have a computer in their
home."
                -- Ken Olson, President of DEC, World Future Society
                   Convention, 1977




From domma at procoders.net  Thu Jul 31 05:24:39 2003
From: domma at procoders.net (Achim Domma)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 11:24:39 +0200
Subject: Python speed vs csharp
References: <rkdc7poiachh.1x4jtxjzaf3zo.dlg@40tude.net> <m3smonmcop.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <bgan8o$a14$04$1@news.t-online.com>

"Martin v. L?wis" <martin at v.loewis.de> wrote in message
news:m3smonmcop.fsf at mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de...
> Mike <mike at nospam.com> writes:
> I recommend that you try out Python 2.3. It has significantly improved
> memory allocation mechanisms, so you should see some speed-up.
>
> You could also try Psyco, which is a just-in-time compiler for
> Python. It should give very good results in this case, also.

Another option would be to implement the critical function in C++ and make
it available to python. This could be done for example via boost.python. See
this link for details:
http://www.boost.org/libs/python/doc/tutorial/index.html It's much easier
than you would expect.

Achim





From fperez528 at yahoo.com  Wed Jul  9 13:39:14 2003
From: fperez528 at yahoo.com (Fernando Perez)
Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 11:39:14 -0600
Subject: Image Streaming
References: <381a2b17.0307072326.211c21b5@posting.google.com> <beetng$q06$1@peabody.colorado.edu> <Xns93B337ABED93CJanC@213.118.75.80>
Message-ID: <behk02$9d8$1@peabody.colorado.edu>

JanC wrote:

> Fernando Perez <fperez528 at yahoo.com> schreef:
> 
>> or even gif (the patents expired recently).
> 
> Only in the US, not in (some countries in) Europe & Japan.

Ah, you're right.  But I think they also expire soon, don't they?  Well, anyway,
png is better :)

Best,

f.



From nicola-mingotti_NO_spam at libero.it  Wed Jul 30 03:50:42 2003
From: nicola-mingotti_NO_spam at libero.it (Nicola Mingotti)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 09:50:42 +0200
Subject: Thank you developers for 2.3
References: <aOIVa.8149$yv1.7974@nwrddc02.gnilink.net> <hsoeivkife4csksjlni21t4ieu9dmd95jg@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2003.07.30.09.50.42.135573.274@libero.it>

On Wed, 30 Jul 2003 08:21:09 +0200, Tino Lange wrote:

> On Wed, 30 Jul 2003 05:35:02 GMT, David Lees
> <abcdebl2nonspammy at verizon.net> wrote:
> 
>> ....
>>2.3      5.04 sec
>>version 2.2.3    9.77 sec

> ...
> By the way: What was/is the speed with 2.1.x on the same system?
> 

On 2.1.3 speedTest doesn't work . It gives OverflowError: integer
addition . It 's because in that version integer aren't converted
into Long Int when necessary . 

...
    t1 = time.time()
    k = 0L
...
    for j in xrange(n):
        for i in xrange(n):
            k += i + j
    t1 = time.time()
    return t1 - t0



From mis6 at pitt.edu  Sat Jul 19 10:40:52 2003
From: mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato)
Date: 19 Jul 2003 07:40:52 -0700
Subject: properties + types, implementing meta-class desciptors elegantly?
References: <mailman.1058532630.7342.python-list@python.org> <bfa97g$s5j$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <2259b0e2.0307190640.56266017@posting.google.com>

bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) wrote in message news:<bfa97g$s5j$0 at 216.39.172.122>...
> Not sure exactly what you are doing, but what does
> 
>      object.__setattr__(client, self.name, value)
> 
> do in your context in place of
> 
>      client.__dict__[ self.name ] = value
> 
> ?
> 
> Regards,
> Bengt Richter

I agree with Bengt, from your traceback it seems you are assigning directly
to client.__dict__, but you cannot do that (I think because client.__dict__
is a dictproxy object and not a real dictionary). The right way to
go is via object.__setattr__ , or type.__setattr__ in the case of
metaclasses.

I guess you are aware of the metaclass+properties recipes in the
on-line cookbook, but just in case ...

HTH,


               Michele



From op73418 at mail.telepac.pt  Mon Jul 28 07:18:33 2003
From: op73418 at mail.telepac.pt (Gonçalo Rodrigues)
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 12:18:33 +0100
Subject: List Question
References: <mailman.1059389635.20311.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bf1aiv4j9cftiqvgqcrv3r9q3accadt2jl@4ax.com>

On Mon, 28 Jul 2003 00:23:46 +0200, "Bill Loren"
<lorenb2 at bezeqint.net> wrote:

>Hello,
>
>Forgive my python newbieness.
>Assume I have a list named heck_of_a_list.
>how would I extract the number of elements out of it ?
>(I'm looking for something like perl's $#heck_of_a_list operand)
>
>thanks
>B

Firing the interpreter:

>>> heck_of_a_list = []
>>> len(heck_of_a_list)
0
>>> 


Maybe you would like to peruse the tutorial that comes with Python.
It's a very nice intro and it may answer some (a lot?) of your newbie
questions.

With my best regards,
G. Rodrigues



From gumuz at looze.net  Thu Jul 17 04:57:04 2003
From: gumuz at looze.net (Guyon Morée)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 10:57:04 +0200
Subject: IMAP examples
References: <3f15cf46$0$45389$1b62eedf@news.wanadoo.nl> <cb035744.0307162203.6b058ee1@posting.google.com> <UWsRa.82$O94.42@newssvr24.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <3f166418$0$13804$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net>

wow, that's cool, not sure if it is what I was looking, but this book seems
pretty invaluable already :)

thanx

"Van Gale" <news at exultants.org> wrote in message
news:UWsRa.82$O94.42 at newssvr24.news.prodigy.com...
> Will Stuyvesant wrote:
> >>[Guyon Mor?e]
> >>I can't seem to find any decent examples on how to use the IMPALIB
module.
> >>the docs aren't that sophisticated unfortunately.... the cookbook entry
> >>comes close, but i'd like to know if someone knows some nice examples
> >>somewhere.
> >
> >
> > I did not use it myself but there is an example in the book "Python
> > Standard Library" by Fredrik Lundh.  The example file is called
> > imaplib-example-1.py, maybe you can find it somewhere on the internet.
>
> Fredrik has graciously made the book available online.
>
> See: http://effbot.org/zone/librarybook-index.htm
>





From thomas.buschhardt at iac-leipzig.de  Tue Jul 15 04:48:27 2003
From: thomas.buschhardt at iac-leipzig.de (Thomas Buschhardt)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 10:48:27 +0200
Subject: Need help: Compiling Python-Code 
Message-ID: <004801c34aad$dbb5aca0$9108000a@iacleipzig.de>

import py_compile
pycompile.compile(Python-file)

Bye Thomas




From danb_83 at yahoo.com  Sat Jul  5 18:51:20 2003
From: danb_83 at yahoo.com (Dan Bishop)
Date: 5 Jul 2003 15:51:20 -0700
Subject: Calculating Year, Month and Day of Life
References: <be72ph$k60$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <ad052e5c.0307051451.31d230a7@posting.google.com>

hokiegal99 <hokiegal99 at hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<be72ph$k60$1 at solaris.cc.vt.edu>...
> Hello,
> 
> I am a funeral director trying to write a small program that calculates 
> the number of years, months and days a person has lived by entering the 
> year, month and day of their birth. This is what I have so far:

How do you calculate the years, months, and days?  For your example
(born: 1934-02-07, died: 2003-07-05), I can think of at least 3
plausible results.

Method 1 (counting forward):
* This person was 69 years old on their last birthday.
* 4 months after their last birthday, it was June 7.
* There were 23 days left in June,
* and 5 days in July until the date of death.
* So this person lived for 69 years, 4 months, and 28 days.

Method 2 (counting backward):
* 69 years before death was 1934-07-05.
* 4 months earlier was March 5.
* 5 days earlier was February 28,
* when the person was 21 days old.
* This person lived for 69 years, 4 months, and 26 days.

Method 3 (day counts):
* date of birth = R.D. 706051
* date of death = R.D. 731401
* This person lived for 25350 days.
* There are an average of 30.436875 days in a month.
* So 25350 days = 832 months + 26.52 days
* 832 months = 69 years + 4 months
* 26.52 days rounds to 27
* This person lived for 69 years, 4 months, and 27 days.



From maxm at mxm.dk  Tue Jul  1 04:03:11 2003
From: maxm at mxm.dk (Max M)
Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 10:03:11 +0200
Subject: Howto: extract a 'column' from a list of lists into a new list?
In-Reply-To: <vg1mbarhe86d2d@corp.supernews.com>
References: <vg1mbarhe86d2d@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <3f013fb1$0$97259$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>

Greg Brunet wrote:

> but I'm not sure about how to do that.  I can do this:
> 
>>>>for g in tbl.Fields(): print g[0]
> 
> ...
> STOCKNO
> DACC
> DEALERACCE
> D-ACCRTL
> D-ACCCST
> 
> but I expect that one of those fancy map/lamda/list comprehension
> functions can turn this into a list for me, but, to be honest, they
> still make my head spin trying to figure them out.  Any ideas on how to
> do this simply?

fields = [
     ('STOCKNO', 'C', 8, 0),
     ('DACC', 'C', 5, 0),
     ('DEALERACCE', 'C', 30, 0),
     ('D-ACCRTL', 'C', 9, 0),
     ('D-ACCCST', 'C', 9, 0)
]



# The "old" way to do it would be:
NAME_COLUMN = 0
results = []
for field in fields:
     results.append(field[NAME_COLUMN])
print results




# But list comprehensions are made for exactly this purpose
NAME_COLUMN = 0
results = [field[NAME_COLUMN] for field in fields]
print results


regards Max M




From martin at v.loewis.de  Wed Jul 30 03:42:23 2003
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-15?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 30 Jul 2003 09:42:23 +0200
Subject: -shared option in distutils
References: <mailman.1059542084.6366.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <m38yqgfokg.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

Dave Harrison <dave at nullcube.com> writes:

> Where can I find it ?

It is extracted from the installed Makefile. In theory, if you build
Python with the Sun compiler, it should automatically decide to use
-G, and so should then distutils use -G as well, without manual
intervention.

Regards,
Martin




From alanmk at hotmail.com  Tue Jul 22 15:01:31 2003
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 20:01:31 +0100
Subject: SAX questions...
References: <mailman.1058894673.16506.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3F1D8A0B.4AA19491@hotmail.com>

Timothy Grant wrote:

> I've worked with DOM before, but never SAX, I have a script that
> seems to work quite well, but every time I look at it I think it's
> amazingly unweildly and that I must be doing something wrong.
> 
> def startElement(self, name, attr):
>     if name == "foo":
>         do_foo_stuff()
>     elif name == "bar":
>         do_bar_stuff()
>     elif name == "baz":
>         do_baz_stuff()
> 
> There's similar code in endElement() and characters() and of course,
> the more tags that need processing the more unweildly each method
> becomes.
> 
> I could create a dictionary and dispatch to the correct method based on a
> dictionary key. But it seems to me there must be a better way.

Tim,

No, you're not doing anything wrong in your above code. But, yes, code
like that can get pretty unwieldy when you've got deeply nested
structures. A couple of suggested alternative approaches:

1. As you already suggested, build up a dictionary mapping tag names
to functions. But that still means that you have to maintain state
information between your function calls.

2. Represent each new element that comes in as a python object
(object()), i.e. construct a "Python Object Model" or POM. All xml
attributes on the element become python attributes of the python
object. That object then goes onto a simple stack. Each object() also
has a list of children. When a new xml child element is passed,
through a nested startElement call, it too gets turned into a python
object, and made a child of the python object on the top of the stack.
Pop objects off the stack as you receive endElement events.

This paradigm is described here, with working code

http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/149368

3. Have a specialised python class for each element type (i.e. tag
name), that implements the "business logic" you want associated with
the element type. Write descriptors or properties for each specialised
class that, for example, only allow child python objects of a certain
type. Create a dictionary mapping tag names to your classes, and
instantiate a new python object of that class everytime you receive
the relevant tag name through a startElement call. Put it onto a
stack, as above, store nested xml elements as children of the
top-of-stack, and pop the stack when you receive endElement calls.

That's just a couple of approaches. There might be other, perhaps more
appropriate, methods, if you could describe what you're trying to
achieve. Are you extracting data from the documents? Or are you
checking that the documents comply with some form of hierarchical
structure? Or something else entirely?

HTH,

-- 
alan kennedy
-----------------------------------------------------
check http headers here: http://xhaus.com/headers
email alan:              http://xhaus.com/mailto/alan



From maxm at mxm.dk  Sat Jul 12 06:22:41 2003
From: maxm at mxm.dk (Max M)
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 12:22:41 +0200
Subject: Help Support Python
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1057951098.31738.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1057951098.31738.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3F0FE171.1090102@mxm.dk>

Guido van Rossum wrote:

> I'm pleased to announce that the Python Software Foundation (PSF) is now
> accepting donations from individuals and companies interested in
> supporting our mission to improve the Python programming language.


It would be nice if there was some suggested amounts.

Like:

       $x.xx for a "one year Student Python subscription"
      $xx.xx for a "one year private Python subscription"
     $xxx.xx for a "one year company Python subscription"

Etc. That could make it easier to decide what amount to donate. To me at 
least.

Anyhoo, I plunked in some $ and hope others will too. It's a great 
language that has made my workday a lot more fun.


regards Max M




From ebolonev at rol.ru  Tue Jul  8 06:52:45 2003
From: ebolonev at rol.ru (Egor Bolonev)
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 21:52:45 +1100
Subject: start script automatically
References: <bee2dg$8q3$1@news.uni-kl.de>
Message-ID: <bee8kq$hmg$1@news.rol.ru>

Hello, Tom!
You wrote  on Tue, 08 Jul 2003 11:17:37 +0200:

 T> Hi,

 T> I have a problem because I don't know how to start my script
 T> automatically after a special event happens.

 T> In detail: I store data from a PLC. Every 30 seconds the data is stored
 T> in a new file. After the file is stored I would like to start my script
 T> that analyzes the data right away. Any help how to do this is deeply
 T> appreciated.

 T> Thank you very much in advance.
 T> Regards, Tom

Your script have to work like a demon or the 'storer' have to run your
script.

With best regards, Egor Bolonev.  E-mail: ebolonev at rol.ru [ru eo en]




From rtomes at ihug.co.nz  Tue Jul  1 18:17:17 2003
From: rtomes at ihug.co.nz (Ray Tomes)
Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 10:17:17 +1200
Subject: whitespace and ?asc()?
Message-ID: <3F02086D.9010300@ihug.co.nz>

Hi all

I am totally new to python. On the whole I really like the design of the 
language and after just one day may be considered a convert.

I was trying to find out the exact definition of whitespace so I went to 
look at strings.whitespace to find out which chars were whitespace, and 
found 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 32 which according to my ancient ascii chart are 
TAB, LF, VT, NP, CR, SPACE. Anyone know what NP = 12 is?

Also, in trying to find the ASCII (or is it ANSI) values for characters I 
could not find the reverse function for chr() [in BASIC it is asc()]- can 
someone please tell me what reverses chr()?

I had to do this yucky thing to decode whitespace ...

import string
x=string.whitespace
for b in x:
     for i in range(256):
         if chr(i) == b:
             print i

Ray Tomes




From stuart at bmsi.com  Wed Jul 16 22:35:38 2003
From: stuart at bmsi.com (Stuart D. Gathman)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 22:35:38 -0400
Subject: Installing milter-0.5.4 (Python) on Mandrake 9.x with updates.
References: <2a897f11.0307161631.7f41db19@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <YXnRa.16109$o54.9051@lakeread05>

On Wed, 16 Jul 2003 20:31:59 -0400, Wayne Pierce wrote:

> python setup.py build
> 
> I get the following error (last 4 lines of output):

...

> distutils.errors.DistutilsPlatformError: invalid Python installation:
> unable to open /usr/lib/python2.2/config/Makefile (No such file or
> directory)

You need to install the python-devel RPM (or python2-devel).

-- 
	      Stuart D. Gathman <stuart at bmsi.com>
Business Management Systems Inc.  Phone: 703 591-0911 Fax: 703 591-6154
"Confutatis maledictis, flamis acribus addictis" - background song for
a Microsoft sponsored "Where do you want to go from here?" commercial.



From shalehperry at comcast.net  Wed Jul 30 21:20:51 2003
From: shalehperry at comcast.net (Sean 'Shaleh' Perry)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 18:20:51 -0700
Subject: Misuse of <tab>
In-Reply-To: <3f28287e$0$103$8f4e7992@newsreader.goldengate.net>
References: <3f27f0e3$1@news.broadpark.no> <3f28287e$0$103$8f4e7992@newsreader.goldengate.net>
Message-ID: <200307301820.51591.shalehperry@comcast.net>

On Wednesday 30 July 2003 13:20, Michael Sampson wrote:
> How does the IDLE that comes with the latest release of python handle this?
> When it automaticly indents does it do it with spaces or tabs?  If you hit
> tab in the IDLE will it just put 5 spaces in for you?
>

thou shalt always use even numbered indents.

Or to paraphrase Monty Python:

Thou shalt count to 4, 4 being the sacred number.  Thou shalt not count 3 and 
5 is right out.





From tjland at iserv.net  Sat Jul 26 18:08:39 2003
From: tjland at iserv.net (tjland at iserv.net)
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 18:08:39 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Beginners help with password program!
Message-ID: <1214.68.73.64.62.1059257319.squirrel@webmail.iserv.net>

This is my first version of this program, im kinda new to python and i was
wondering if someone could help me with this. Their are some errors that i
just cant find, and i want some advice on how to do some of these things
easier. Thanx for the help!
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
from time import sleep

def Sendfile(password, username):
    outfile = file(username, "w")
    outfile.write(password)
    outfile.close()
    print "Your are now registered"

def Getfile(username):
    infile = file(username, "r")
    content = infile.readline(1)
    global content
    infile.close()


login = input("Are u registered? ")
if login == no:
    new_username = input("What do you want for a username, please letters
only: ")
    new_password = input("What do you wish for a password: ")
    Sendfile(new_password, new_username)
else:
    print "Please Login, Enter username, then wait for prompt!"
    username = input("Username: ")
    sleep(5)
    password = input("Password: ")

    Getfile(username)
    if password != content:
        print """Im sorry but you are not a registered user,
        If you would like to become a user contact the server admin for
        user privelges"""
    else:
        print "Welcome"
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

         When you see the net take the shot
         When you miss your shot shoot again
           When you make your shot you win!

                   Just remember
               Offense sells tickets
           But defense wins championships!




From woooee at yahoo.com  Wed Jul  2 22:27:16 2003
From: woooee at yahoo.com (Curly Joe)
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 19:27:16 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Clever One Liners
Message-ID: <20030703022716.62264.qmail@web20514.mail.yahoo.com>

I agree with you, especially since the compiler, in
most cases, must break everything down into single
steps anyway.  Take for instance a very simple
example:
x = a + b/c
The compiler would execute this as:
x = b/c
x += a
While most people would no do this, we do have a
problem with "line bloat" software.  It would likely
take someone who is debugging the program for the
first time longer to figure out one of these twisted
contortions than it took the original programmer to
create it in the first place (and perhaps that's the
point).  If someone asks how to do something on one
line or in the shortest amount of space, that's
another situation, but for many of the questions it is
obvious that the person is new to Python and sometimes
to programming, which means their response would be
"Huh?  I don't have a clue as to what that means."

Michael Chermside wrote:
I'm not picking on you in particular, there have been
several people
doing this lately, but I'd like to ask folks to please
lay off the
quest for one-liners.

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
http://sbc.yahoo.com




From ta-meyer at ihug.co.nz  Tue Jul 15 19:40:14 2003
From: ta-meyer at ihug.co.nz (Tony Meyer)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 11:40:14 +1200
Subject: FCNTL module deprecation warning
In-Reply-To: <1ED4ECF91CDED24C8D012BCF2B034F130256632B@its-xchg4.massey.ac.nz>
Message-ID: <1ED4ECF91CDED24C8D012BCF2B034F1318CF26@its-xchg4.massey.ac.nz>

[Tony Meyer]
> My question is then why the 2.3b2 Windows binary bothers installing 
> the FCNTL.py file.
[Tim Peters]
> Because it would be enormously more bother to special-case 
> it.

If I could get the behaviour that you get, I wouldn't care if it installed
it...

[Tony Meyer]
> Shouldn't the correct behaviour be to raise an ImportError if a 
> windows user tries to import fcntl or FCNTL?
[Tim Peters]
> It does for me:
> 
> >>> import fcntl
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
> ImportError: No module named fcntl
> >>> import FCNTL
> C:\CODE\PYTHON\lib\FCNTL.py:7: DeprecationWarning: the FCNTL 
> module is deprecated; please use fcntl
>   DeprecationWarning)
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
>   File "C:\CODE\PYTHON\lib\FCNTL.py", line 11, in ?
>     from fcntl import *
> ImportError: No module named fcntl
> >>>
> 
> I get that under Python 2.2.3 and 2.3b2.

Strange.  I get the warning on 2.2.3 and 2.3b2, except in 2.3b2 IDLE, which
successfully imports fcntl (odd).  (long cut'n'pastes below).

Do you have the PYTHONCASEOK envar set?  (This doesn't seem to make any
difference to me, but from the explanation I didn't think it would).

I presume this means something is screwy with my Python setup?  (or yours,
but mine seems the more likely :).  Any suggestions about what I might be
able to change to get the import error that you do?

=Tony Meyer

Python 2.2.3 (#42, May 30 2003, 18:12:08) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
IDLE 0.8 -- press F1 for help
>>> import fcntl
c:\progra~1\python22\lib\fcntl.py:7: DeprecationWarning: the FCNTL module is
deprecated; please use fcntl
  DeprecationWarning)
>>> import FCNTL
c:\progra~1\python22\lib\FCNTL.py:7: DeprecationWarning: the FCNTL module is
deprecated; please use fcntl
  DeprecationWarning)
>>> 

Python 2.3b2 (#43, Jun 29 2003, 16:43:04) [MSC v.1200 32 bit (Intel)] on
win32
Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
IDLE 0.8 -- press F1 for help
>>> import fcntl
>>> import FCNTL
c:\progra~1\python23\lib\FCNTL.py:7: DeprecationWarning: the FCNTL module is
deprecated; please use fcntl
  DeprecationWarning)
>>> 

Python 2.3b2 (#43, Jun 29 2003, 16:43:04) [MSC v.1200 32 bit (Intel)] on
win32
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import fcntl
c:\progra~1\python23\lib\fcntl.py:7: DeprecationWarning: the FCNTL module is
dep
recated; please use fcntl
  DeprecationWarning)
>>> import FCNTL
c:\progra~1\python23\lib\FCNTL.py:7: DeprecationWarning: the FCNTL module is
dep
recated; please use fcntl
  DeprecationWarning)
>>>

Python 2.2.3 (#42, May 30 2003, 18:12:08) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import fcntl
c:\progra~1\python22\lib\fcntl.py:7: DeprecationWarning: the FCNTL module is
dep
recated; please use fcntl
  DeprecationWarning)
>>> import FCNTL
c:\progra~1\python22\lib\FCNTL.py:7: DeprecationWarning: the FCNTL module is
dep
recated; please use fcntl
  DeprecationWarning)
>>>

PythonWin 2.3b2 (#43, Jun 29 2003, 16:43:04) [MSC v.1200 32 bit (Intel)] on
win32.
Portions Copyright 1994-2001 Mark Hammond (mhammond at skippinet.com.au) - see
'Help/About PythonWin' for further copyright information.
>>> import fcntl
C:\Program Files\Python23\lib\fcntl.py:7: DeprecationWarning: the FCNTL
module is deprecated; please use fcntl
  DeprecationWarning)
>>> import FCNTL
C:\Program Files\Python23\lib\FCNTL.py:7: DeprecationWarning: the FCNTL
module is deprecated; please use fcntl
  DeprecationWarning)
>>> 

PythonWin 2.2.3 (#42, May 30 2003, 18:12:08) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on win32.
Portions Copyright 1994-2001 Mark Hammond (mhammond at skippinet.com.au) - see
'Help/About PythonWin' for further copyright information.
>>> import fcntl
C:\Program Files\Python22\lib\fcntl.py:7: DeprecationWarning: the FCNTL
module is deprecated; please use fcntl
  DeprecationWarning)
>>> import FCNTL
C:\Program Files\Python22\lib\FCNTL.py:7: DeprecationWarning: the FCNTL
module is deprecated; please use fcntl
  DeprecationWarning)
>>> 





From marcstober at yahoo.com  Wed Jul  2 12:11:09 2003
From: marcstober at yahoo.com (Marc)
Date: 2 Jul 2003 09:11:09 -0700
Subject: Encoding questions
Message-ID: <ac7dc9b9.0307020811.47e4edf2@posting.google.com>

Hi,

Is there any way to see what encodings are installed on my computer,
or a reference of the encodings distributed with Python and what each
of them is for? I've looked at the reference for the codec module and
imagine there's a folder full of Codec classes somewhere; is this how
it works?

The specific problem I have is a Unicode file that contains a bullet
character (Unicode BULLET, 2022). Ultimately, it's going to be written
into a PDF file (via ReportLab). The default ASCII encoding doesn't
work, which is OK; suprisingly neither does 'latin-1', yet 'cp1252'
does work. These are just encodings I've seen somewhere. Basically,
I'd like to know how to go about choosing the best/most appropriate
encoding for a given application.

Thanks,
Marc Stober



From lists at gregfortune.com  Tue Jul 22 16:26:55 2003
From: lists at gregfortune.com (Greg Fortune)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 13:26:55 -0700
Subject: Installing lots of packages
References: <MOfTa.3380$Jk5.2343975@feed2.centurytel.net>
Message-ID: <ZYgTa.3381$Jk5.2347561@feed2.centurytel.net>

ack, sorry about that.  Knode lied to me when it said the message didn't go
through ;o)

Greg


Greg Fortune wrote:

> I've got a whole bunch of package dependencies in the programs I develop.
> Mainly, they are generic libraries/utilities I've written that are needed
> by most of the programs I write.  The biggest problem I've had with
> python's packaging system is that I end up needing to install every
> library
> package on each machine I install my programs on.  It's even worse when I
> go through an upgrade...
> 
> Is there any way to create something like a "meta-package"?  ie, can
> bundle
> a whole bunch of packages together under a single installer?  I'm working
> on both Windows and Mac so the tools need to support both platforms.  Does
> anything exist for this purpose?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Greg Fortune
> Fortune Solutions




From ben at dadsetan.com  Sun Jul  6 18:31:58 2003
From: ben at dadsetan.com (Behrang Dadsetan)
Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 00:31:58 +0200
Subject: Using Loops to track user input
In-Reply-To: <3F089D60.4030203@dadsetan.com>
References: <bea0p6$17f$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <3F089D60.4030203@dadsetan.com>
Message-ID: <bea83u$7tg$1@online.de>

Behrang Dadsetan wrote:
> hokiegal99 wrote:
> 
>> I don't understand how to use a loop to keep track of user input. 
>> Could someone show me how to do what the program below does with a loop?
>>
> 
> # If you are want to loop a fixed amount of time, as I understand a way
> # would be:
> sum = 0
> for i in xrange(10):
>    sum += input("Enter a number: ")
> average = sum/10
> print average
> 

Ok, I just looked up the Reference documentation and 
int(raw_input("prompt text")) would be probably better than my suggested 
input() - like in the other anwsers you received.


One should maybe note that if the end average calculated should be a 
float, then you need to use

sum = 0.0

and should the user entering the data be allowed to use float values you 
will probably want to use

float(raw_input("prompt text"))



Regards, Ben.




From cybersamurai at mac.com  Thu Jul 17 11:24:57 2003
From: cybersamurai at mac.com (Luiz Siqueira Neto)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 12:24:57 -0300
Subject: what u'=' mean???
Message-ID: <200307171224.57003.cybersamurai@mac.com>

What 
----
u'=' 
----
mean??

Ex:

args = [u'='.join(k,safe_eval(v) for k, v in attrs.items()]




From mwh at python.net  Tue Jul 15 11:52:11 2003
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 15:52:11 GMT
Subject: Confusing automated translators.
References: <37d6f77c.0307130932.1e3adf0d@posting.google.com> <3f11ac74$0$49101$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl> <ad052e5c.0307131718.4903430d@posting.google.com> <3F12808B.E53193B8@hotmail.com> <87brvw3ula.fsf@pobox.com> <mailman.1058279187.32426.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7h3n0ffn69m.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

Francois Pinard <pinard at iro.umontreal.ca> writes:

> [John J. Lee]
> 
> > Alan Kennedy <alanmk at hotmail.com> writes:
> 
> > > I'd love to hear of other similar phrases.  And somehow I intuit
> > > there's people in this ng who know lots of them :-)
> 
> > There are so many...
> 
> Automated translators which ignore punctuation are pretty fragile, too.

Oh, if we're allowed to play punctuation games, I like:

  I travelled on[,] my face towards home.

Cheers,
mwh

-- 
  Like most people, I don't always agree with the BDFL (especially
  when he wants to change things I've just written about in very 
  large books), ... 
         -- Mark Lutz, http://python.oreilly.com/news/python_0501.html



From edavid at intnet.mu  Wed Jul 23 11:14:53 2003
From: edavid at intnet.mu (David Hitillambeau)
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 19:14:53 +0400
Subject: The global statement
References: <pan.2003.07.23.08.06.17.301516@intnet.mu> <bfm7m8$g9shl$1@ID-63505.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <pan.2003.07.23.15.14.52.430267@intnet.mu>

On Wed, 23 Jul 2003 16:56:08 +0200, Thomas G?ttler wrote:

> If foo and bar are in the same file, 
> you don't need the "global".

Then when is "global" required? What is it's role?

Thanks for your reply.
--
David.H



From jim_938 at hotmail.com  Fri Jul  4 13:41:56 2003
From: jim_938 at hotmail.com (Jimmy verma)
Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 23:11:56 +0530
Subject: strings problem
Message-ID: <Sea1-F1553Bw22cwSV00001719b@hotmail.com>

Hello *.*

Can you please tell me how can i have the output in no's, instead of string 
from this program:

#/usr/bin/python
import re
import string

def csNumEncode(num):
    if(num>=-107 and num<=107):
        return chr(num+139)
    elif(num>=108 and num<=1131):
        return chr(((num-108)/256)+247) + chr((num-108)%256)
    else:
        print 'do nothing'

re_num = re.compile("\-?[0-9]+(\.[0-9]+)?")


def CompileCS(source):
  result=''
  for tkn in re.split('[ \n\t]+', source):
    print "Token: %s"%tkn
    if re_num.match(tkn):
        result = result + csNumEncode(string.atoi(tkn))
    else:
        raise SyntaxError, "%s is invalid operator"%tkn
  return result

src1 = '50  800'

t = CompileCS(src1)

print t



The output is

Token: 50
Token: 800
\275\371\264


Instead of this i want the output should be in no's like this:
bdF9B4

Your suggestions will be welcomed.

Thanks a lot.

Regards,
Jim

_________________________________________________________________
Looking for love? Yearning for friendship? http://www.msn.co.in/Romance/ 
You're in the right place.





From adeutsch at kaval.com  Mon Jul 28 17:01:55 2003
From: adeutsch at kaval.com (Adam Deutsch)
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 17:01:55 -0400
Subject: memory leak troubleshooting techniques
Message-ID: <3601F5E21CA5D711965000508B4A8BD11922C0@MARKHAM2>

I would like to ask some advice about tracking down memory leaks in Python
code.

We have a python application running on Python 2.0.1 in an embedded Linux
environment (kernel version 2.4.7).  We have recently detected a memory leak
that we can see from "ps aux" is attributable to the Python processes.
Running Sam Rushing's (http://www.nightmare.com/medusa/memory-leaks.html)
get_refcounts() function does not yield any smoking guns:  the reference
counts for all classes remain stable even as memory use climbs.

Is there any systematic method of determining how Python is using its
allocated memory?

Thanks.




From noah at noah.org  Fri Jul 11 17:25:26 2003
From: noah at noah.org (Noah)
Date: 11 Jul 2003 14:25:26 -0700
Subject: Convert between Windows style paths and POSIX style paths
References: <c9d82136.0307101244.4594e04d@posting.google.com> <3F0DE565.1CEA39C6@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <c9d82136.0307111325.7c706fe9@posting.google.com>

Peter Hansen <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message news:<3F0DE565.1CEA39C6 at engcorp.com>...

> You can use forward slashes in paths under Win32, except at the
> command prompt.
> 
> Even if you switch to use all forward slashes, however, what do
> you plan to do about drive letters?  There is no obvious mapping
> to anything under POSIX, I think.  Are you planning on disallowing
> paths that go anywhere but the current drive under NT?
> -Peter

I had forgotten that NT supports forward slashes.
My only concern is that some of the config file values are
set programatically and I use os.path.join everywhere, so if the
config file is modified when running under Windows then the paths
will get \ separators and that will confuse the UNIX side.
I think I will still need something to ensure that the paths
are consistent... Hmmm... I wonder how evil it would be to simply set
os.sep = '/' when I initialize my application. I wonder if I will be
angering the dark lords of Microsoft by doing this.

I was going to simply remove the drive letter, so, yes, that would
disallow paths other than the curent drive. I might also map the drive
letters to a point on the POSIX path or I might do it Cygwin style
where C: becomes /cygdrive/c/.



From anthony_barker at hotmail.com  Thu Jul 31 09:55:52 2003
From: anthony_barker at hotmail.com (Anthony_Barker)
Date: 31 Jul 2003 06:55:52 -0700
Subject: Python's biggest compromises
Message-ID: <899f842.0307310555.56134f71@posting.google.com>

I have been reading a book about the evolution of the Basic
programming language. The author states that Basic - particularly
Microsoft's version is full of compromises which crept in along the
language's 30+ year evolution.

What to you think python largest compromises are?

The three that come to my mind are significant whitespace, dynamic
typing, and that it is interpreted - not compiled. These three put
python under fire and cause some large projects to move off python or
relegate it to prototyping.

Whitespace is an esthetic preference that make Andrew Hunt and David
Thomas (of Pragmatic Programmer fame) prefer Ruby. Personally, I love
it - but I can see why some people might not like it (30 years of
braces).

Dynamic typing causes the most fuss. I like Guido's answer to the
question -
> "Doesn't dynamic typing cause more errors to creep into the code 
because you catch them later than compile time?". 
> "No, we use Unit Testing in Zope". 

That said, obvious Basic compromised by using things such as "Option
Explicit", thereby allowing both dynamic and more static style
variables. Yahoo groups moved from python to C due to dynamic typing.

Non-compiled - obviously there are times when performance matters more
than other things. Google I believe uses python to prototype (or used)
and then turns to c++ for heavy lifting.

What about immutable strings? I'm not sure I understand Guido's
preference for them.

Anthony
http://xminc.com/anthony



From trentm at ActiveState.com  Fri Jul 18 15:55:10 2003
From: trentm at ActiveState.com (Trent Mick)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 12:55:10 -0700
Subject: Perl -> Python hopeless?
In-Reply-To: <3f182c9a$0$276$ba620e4c@reader0.news.skynet.be>; from jarausch@skynet.be on Fri, Jul 18, 2003 at 07:21:28PM +0200
References: <3f182c9a$0$276$ba620e4c@reader0.news.skynet.be>
Message-ID: <20030718125510.A8491@ActiveState.com>

[Helmut Jarausch wrote]
> Hi,
> having been a Perl fan for years I have nearly converted to Python.
> Still, there are LOTS and very good modules written in Perl.
> 
> Is there a tool to lesson the burdon of translation of Perl to Python?
> I am completely aware of the fact that a fully automatic translation
> to readable Python source is hard if not impossible.
> But such a tool could lots of the tedious work like replacing
> braces by proper indentation and and similar things.
> 
> Thanks for a pointer (if there is one)

There is a project called PyPerl that was developed here at ActiveState
to help integrate Perl support into Zope. Here is a wiki for PyPerl:
    http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/moinmoin/PyPerl

Try this (YMMV):
    - install ActivePython 2.2
    - install ActivePerl 5.6
    - install PyPerl into your Perl and Python installations:
        pyppm install PyPerl
    - startup python and try to use the 'perl' module:
        python
        >>> import perl
        >>> print perl.eval("3+3")
    - read some docs on how to use it:
        http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/CodeDoc/pyperl/perlmodule.html


I can't test this on my machine right now so I can't be sure that the
above works smoothly.

Cheers,
Trent

-- 
Trent Mick
TrentM at ActiveState.com




From mlh at furu.idi.ntnu.no  Mon Jul 28 20:24:20 2003
From: mlh at furu.idi.ntnu.no (Magnus Lie Hetland)
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 00:24:20 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Floyd-Warshall Algorithem in Python
References: <c0b257f5.0307262000.11178c98@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <slrnbibflk.q3v.mlh@furu.idi.ntnu.no>

In article <c0b257f5.0307262000.11178c98 at posting.google.com>, Dave wrote:
>Hello, 
>
>I'm looking for a Floyd-Warshall Python implementation. The only
>implementation I  have seen (searching this newsgroup) used a Python
>library called "Numeric". This   implementation doesn't work anymore.
>I was wondering whether anyone knew of any FW implementations
>elsewhere, or knew how I could convert the old example to Python code
>that would run on Python 2.2?

This is really so simple that it's almost a bit redundant to have a
separate library for it... Here is a sample implementation:

def floyd_warshall(w, n):
    d = {0: w}
    for k in range(1,n+1):
        d[k] = {}
        for i in range(1,n+1):
            for j in range(1,n+1):
                d[k][i,j] = min(d[k-1][i,j],
                                d[k-1][i,k] + d[k-1][k,j])
    return d[n]

This is basically directly translated from the standard pseudocode. A
graph is represented by its weight matrix, in the form of a dictionary
with tuple keys. For example:

w = {}
w[1,2] = 3
w[1,3] = 8
w[1,5] = -4
w[2,4] = 1
...

and so forth. You could add a loop like this to fill out the edges
that aren't specified explicitly:

for i in range(1,n+1):
    w[i,i] = 0
    for j in range(1,n+1):
        w.setdefault((i,j), INF)

Here, n is the number of nodes in the graph and INF may be set to
something like sys.maxint.

The algorithm above stores all steps of the algorithm, with d[k] being
the distance matrix after step k -- a bit redundant, but useful if you
want to display the steps.

You might also want to keep a parent matrix (or, rather, a dictionary)
where pi[k][i,j] is the parent to node j in the shortest path from i
to j after step k (set this when selecting the minimum; you'd have to
replace the call to min() with an if statement). Again, keeping the
results from all steps is highly redundant, but easily simplified; you
only need the previous and the current.

>Thanks,
>Dave.

-- 
Magnus Lie Hetland                "In this house we obey the laws of
http://hetland.org                 thermodynamics!"    Homer Simpson



From paul_rudin at scientia.com  Thu Jul 10 11:29:29 2003
From: paul_rudin at scientia.com (Paul Rudin)
Date: 10 Jul 2003 16:29:29 +0100
Subject: Deleting specific characters from a string
References: <mailman.1057847177.2555.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <uu19utn6u.fsf@scientia.com>

>>>>> "Michael" == Michael Chermside <mcherm at mcherm.com> writes:

    > Paul Rudin writes:


    >> I'd expect it to be faster than your solution - particularly on
    >> large input (although I haven't actually tried).

    > Hmm... I doubt it. I'd expect the translate() version to be the
    > fastest, with multiple string.remove()'s being competative when
    > the number of different characters to be removed is small. RE's
    > are NOT renown for their speed when doing simple character
    > replacement, deletion or insertion on strings. 

My comparison was with one particular solution, not all solutions
mentioned. Still I was previosuly unaware of the existence of
translate... so thanks for mentioning it.


    > But _I_ haven't timed it either, so I'm going to shut up now.

Me too :-)



From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Wed Jul 30 13:16:58 2003
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 13:16:58 -0400
Subject: Misuse of <tab>
References: <3f27f0e3$1@news.broadpark.no>
Message-ID: <vifvcvqdd4mf4@news.supernews.com>

"Gisle Vanem" <giva at users.sourceforge.net> wrote in message
news:3f27f0e3$1 at news.broadpark.no...
> I'm a .py newbie and fascinated by the simplicity of formatting.
> No need for {} as in Perl etc. But the misuse of <tab> that many
> .py writers do makes it hard to understand how a script operates.
>
> E.g.
>
> def main():
>    terminate = 0
>    def foo():
>        line = sys.stdin.readline()
> <tab>  try:
>         bar()
>     except:
>         terminate = 1
>
> main()
>
> Now, with an editor with different tab-settings it's difficult to see
where
> the try statement belongs. In 'def main()' or in 'def foo()' ?
> I'm confused, please enlighten me.

You're quite right - mixing spaces and tabs when indenting is
not the thing to do. In fact, it's warned against in a number of
places. The recommended practice is to use spaces, and
avoid tabs completely.

I think you'll find that all the modules in the standard library
use spaces exclusively.

John Roth
>
> --gv
>
>





From ulope at gmx.de  Wed Jul  9 08:51:02 2003
From: ulope at gmx.de (Ulrich Petri)
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 14:51:02 +0200
Subject: Python Global Constant
References: <mailman.1057737013.30246.python-list@python.org> <3F0BE68B.893EB7E5@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <beh33n$58vh4$1@ID-67890.news.dfncis.de>

"Peter Hansen" <peter at engcorp.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:3F0BE68B.893EB7E5 at engcorp.com...
> Krisztian Kepes wrote:
>
> > *** module any ***
> > import dirs;
> > def CheckDir(Dir):
> >   if Dir=dirs.Const_Up: xxx
>
> This code should work fine, although you might want to follow
> the Python conventions for capitalization and formatting of
> your code, to make it more readable for others.  For example,
> variables and functions are generally mixed case, as in checkdir
> or dir, while constants are usually ALLCAPS as in CONST_UP.

No it wont. "if Dir = dirs.Const_Up:" is invalid syntax (Note the = instead
of ==)

Ciao Ulrich





From mis6 at pitt.edu  Thu Jul 17 08:55:22 2003
From: mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato)
Date: 17 Jul 2003 05:55:22 -0700
Subject: Documentation examples needed
References: <aUnRa.16108$o54.11296@lakeread05>
Message-ID: <2259b0e2.0307170455.31ae2e11@posting.google.com>

"Stuart D. Gathman" <stuart at bmsi.com> wrote in message news:<aUnRa.16108$o54.11296 at lakeread05>...
> I am still wanting to produce Python standard format documentation for
> Python extensions I have written.  I have looked at the docs that come
> with Python itself, but I am new to Latex, and don't know how to add the
> document classes and styles from texinput for a new project.
> 
> Is there a small project with documentation in the Python standard that I
> can use as an example?

Dave Kuhlman reported on the docutils mailing list that it was 
working on a docutils writer to produce standard Python documentation.

   http://www.rexx.com/~dkuhlman/#docutilsdocpy

Michele



From irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl  Thu Jul 17 18:47:50 2003
From: irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 00:47:50 +0200
Subject: A challenge to the ASCII proponents.
In-Reply-To: <3F172442.2040907@v.loewis.de>
References: <mailman.1058278343.23104.python-list@python.org> <bf167a$pvt$1@panix2.panix.com> <ufzl7rdno.fsf@online.no> <3F142A58.80426AA4@hotmail.com> <2259b0e2.0307161620.4a9353f1@posting.google.com> <Xns93BB246FDDBCFJanC@213.118.75.80> <3F168011.3AEB3EFC@hotmail.com> <3F172442.2040907@v.loewis.de>
Message-ID: <3f172794$0$49102$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

Martin v. Loewis wrote:

> ????????
> 
> Look Ma, no markup. And not every character uses two bytes, either.
> And I can use Umlauts (???) and Arabic (???.????) if I want to.
> 
> I don't know for whom this renders well, but I guess MSIE5+, NS6+
> and Mozilla 1+ are good candidates - without the need for saving
> things into files.

Exactly, it renders perfectly okay for me (mozilla 1.4).
I wonder one thing: how did you type it in?

--Irmen




From eniac at sdf-eu.org  Thu Jul 10 07:05:07 2003
From: eniac at sdf-eu.org (Geiregat Jonas)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 13:05:07 +0200
Subject: How does python work
Message-ID: <pan.2003.07.10.11.05.07.519231@sdf-eu.org>

I'm asking myself how Python code get's executed ...
What happens first etc ...
First read the file and then ..
How python handle's variable internally ...
also could someone point me to the build in functions in the python source
code ?



From jjl at pobox.com  Sat Jul 26 21:37:18 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 27 Jul 2003 02:37:18 +0100
Subject: Tokenize
References: <8%VTa.133$313.72262@news.uswest.net>
Message-ID: <87he58rbqp.fsf@pobox.com>

"Ken Fettig" <kfettig at state.nd.us> writes:

> Does Python have an equivelent to the Java StringTokenizer? If so,
> what is it and how do you implement it?

I don't mean to be grumpy, but why do people seem to have suddenly
started saying 'implement' where they used to say 'use'?  They mean
(or used to mean!) quite different things!

I can understand marketroids using the word like that, and non-native
English speakers picking it up from them, but I really don't
understand how native English speakers who are also programmers end up
using this confusing way of talking.

I suppose I now have to say "how to I write the body of that function"
instead of "how do I implement that function", or Ken & co. will get
confused... and I guess I now have to write a sentence or two where I
used to use the general "how do I implement that?".  Grumph.

don't-get-me-started-on-imply-vs-infer-ly y'rs,


John



From op73418 at mail.telepac.pt  Tue Jul 29 09:30:20 2003
From: op73418 at mail.telepac.pt (Gonçalo Rodrigues)
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 14:30:20 +0100
Subject: metaclasses
References: <pan.2003.07.28.22.25.25.311058@webone.com.au>
Message-ID: <datcivghpep3qc6hea02cfp79490hgh4st@4ax.com>

On Tue, 29 Jul 2003 08:25:26 +1000, Simon Burton
<simonb at webone.com.au> wrote:

>
>It seems this is a more general way to build classes than inheritance.
>Is this a reasonable viewpoint?
>

Yes, it's reasonable. A class statement is syntactic sugar for a call
to the type constructor. As for the usefullness of the POV that's a
whole different matter:

"Metaclasses are deeper magic than 99% of users should ever worry
about. If you wonder whether you need them, you don't (the people who
actually need them know with certainty that they need them, and don't
need an explanation about why)." -- Tim Peters 

Mr. Tim Peters is always right. 

With  my best regards,
G. Rodrigues



From dion_mart at hotmail.com  Thu Jul 24 01:16:10 2003
From: dion_mart at hotmail.com (Martin Dion)
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 05:16:10 GMT
Subject: Needing help with sockets
References: <Xns93BF12F42BDB3dionMartHotmail@205.237.233.52> <3f1c4378$0$49110$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <Xns93C2D65B995AdionMartHotmail@205.237.233.52>

Thank you for your reply, but I have not been able to find good information 
about the select module for a client. Do you know a good place to find 
tutorials about select module for clients ?



From manish.j at gmx.net  Fri Jul 25 09:03:51 2003
From: manish.j at gmx.net (Manish Jethani)
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 18:33:51 +0530
Subject: data conversion question (binary string to 'real string')
In-Reply-To: <bfr9h7$i62j8$1@ID-155280.news.uni-berlin.de>
References: <bfr9h7$i62j8$1@ID-155280.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <R2aUa.4$gZ.55@news.oracle.com>

Alexander Eisenhuth wrote:

> maby I don't see the forest because of all that trees, but :

Maybe I don't understand your question...

> from struct import *
> 
> 
> # how can I convert
> f = float(0.5)
> 
> # with
> bin_str =  pack('!f', 0.5)
> 
> # now bin_str is '?\x00\x00\x00'
> 
> 
> # to "3F000000" ?????

???????????????
What is your question?

-Manish

-- 
Manish Jethani (manish.j at gmx.net)
phone (work) +91-80-51073488




From roy at panix.com  Mon Jul  7 14:41:32 2003
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: 7 Jul 2003 14:41:32 -0400
Subject: A story about Python... sort of
References: <3f03f430$0$97222$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk> <mailman.1057533613.9015.python-list@python.org> <yw4Oa.22149$Ey6.10815@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net> <mailman.1057594814.10602.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <becess$i7t$1@panix2.panix.com>

Dave Brueck  <dave at pythonapocrypha.com> wrote:
> True, although rather than let the frame rate continue up the game designers 
> will simply add more polygons, more actors, more textures, greater viewable 
> distance, etc. so they won't ever reach the "fast enough" point either. 

On the other hand, much of that low-level rendering stuff is done in
hardware (and more and more every day).  The application running on
the main CPU is less and less of a factor.  To a certain extent, the
question is not Python vs. C++, but ATI vs. Nvidia, and how well the
app takes advantage of the underlying hardware.

The same is true in a lot of domains.  Modern network switches
implement all of the critical-path logic in hardware, and (for the
most part) all the software does is provide a management/configuration
interface.  It's not unusual for a switch to be running at or near
capacity, and the CPU usage to be 10% or less.  In a situation like
that, it just doesn't matter how fast the software is.  Time to market
and robustness are much more important.



From timr at probo.com  Sat Jul 19 19:22:49 2003
From: timr at probo.com (Tim Roberts)
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 16:22:49 -0700
Subject: anything like C++ references?
References: <plk3hv0s1m2egf4s34jo6vjedk0q8r2mu9@4ax.com> <m365m6ul5c.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <mailman.1058145500.19181.python-list@python.org> <e464hvcq48q3240ecfcs6jqhqf616q7v1a@4ax.com> <3F1256C0.4BDC816F@alcyone.com> <vdl6hvckre5pms4n8bcn0nf1ma09ikse0f@4ax.com> <bf1ocu$jeq$0@216.39.172.122> <i5r8hvk57sjpagf2bnttov2h4qohg0pjq2@4ax.com> <bf2n7o$bri$0@216.39.172.122> <747bhv8r2h398bv121seft4spukd6bcsug@4ax.com> <XKidndd1SNg9QYuiXTWJiw@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <28kjhvc7kcuf5uo96teg012rc6gqsnl10u@4ax.com>

"Terry Reedy" <tjreedy at udel.edu> wrote:
>
>"Stephen Horne" <intentionally at blank.co.uk> wrote in message
>> Anyway, Algol and Fortran apparently (I didn't know this until
>> today) *always* used call-by-reference.
>
>Not true (about Fortran).  I vaguely remember (about 1980) when IBM
>Fortran switched from one calling convention to another.

No, you don't.

A simple variable name is required to be passed by reference (or at least
passed so it SIMULATES pass-by-reference), at least until Fortran90.
Expressions in a parameter list are passed by value, of course, and you
could force the compiler to use call-by-value by using trickery like:
    CALL FUNC1( PARAM1, (PARAM2), 1*PARAM3 )

PARAM2 and PARAM3 would usually by passed by value.

I absolutely refuse to believe that IBM would have arbitrarily changed
their Fortran compiler's default calling convention in 1980.  The F77
standard simply would not allow it, if you were even using F77; much
Fortran code was still F66 until well into the 1980s.
-- 
- Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
  Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.



From ray at rays-web.com  Thu Jul 10 19:21:59 2003
From: ray at rays-web.com (Ray Smith)
Date: 10 Jul 2003 16:21:59 -0700
Subject: Business model for Open Source - advice wanted
References: <246a4e07.0307100613.fc2fc50@posting.google.com> <e9570f37.0307101010.4e5c21ea@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <5654fff9.0307101521.5a3fec41@posting.google.com>

graham__fawcett at hotmail.com (Graham Fawcett) wrote in message news:<e9570f37.0307101010.4e5c21ea at posting.google.com>...
> Without regard to the specifics of your question: if you haven't done
> so already, I'd recommend reading Eric Raymond's essay "The Magic
> Cauldron."
> 
> Summary: "This paper analyzes the economics of open-source software.
> It includes some explosion of common myths about software production
> economics, a game-theoretical account of why open-source cooperation
> is stable, and a taxonomy of open-source business models."
> 
> http://www.catb.org/~esr/writings/magic-cauldron/

and also "Open Sources: Voices from the Open Source Revolution"

in particular the "Cygnus" and "Open Source as a Business Strategy" chapters.

Online at http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/opensources/book/toc.html

Ray Smith



From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Wed Jul  9 10:37:24 2003
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 09:37:24 -0500
Subject: Application Development in Python
In-Reply-To: <200307091017.49419.drlinux@columbus.rr.com> (Dave Reed's
 message of "Wed, 9 Jul 2003 10:17:49 -0400")
References: <3089454.1057738936@dbforums.com>
	<200307091017.49419.drlinux@columbus.rr.com>
Message-ID: <m2znjn4vh7.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

>>>>> "Dave" == Dave Reed <drlinux at columbus.rr.com> writes:

    Dave> Also note that using the database for manipulating the data
    Dave> makes the speed very acceptable. I'm almost certain that
    Dave> manipulating the data in Python would be way too slow to
    Dave> make it usable (e.g., generating a balance sheet that looks
    Dave> through all the transactions and groups them by account in
    Dave> Python would be much slower than using sql commands to do
    Dave> that).

I'm not arguing that the dbase isn't the way to go, but if you wanted
to do the manipulations in python, the Numeric package certainly
provides the speed you need to manipulate large quantities of data
rapidly.  I sometimes use a C extension to put data from an SQL
database directly into Numeric arrays and then manipulate the data in
python.

John Hunter





From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Thu Jul 31 17:27:46 2003
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 17:27:46 -0400
Subject: Python's biggest compromises
References: <899f842.0307310555.56134f71@posting.google.com> <viibo7t45unv83@news.supernews.com> <TBO13LAmBVK$Ewml@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <vij2f3qjrngled@news.supernews.com>

"Robin Becker" <robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:TBO13LAmBVK$Ewml at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk...
> In article <viibo7t45unv83 at news.supernews.com>, John Roth
> <newsgroups at jhrothjr.com> writes
> >
> .....
> >High performance isn't Python's target. If PyPy ever gets their act
> >off the ground, then we will have a shot at a good quality JIT
> >interpreter. Then watch it fly.
> >
> .... doesn't psyco already attempt to do JIT? It certainly doesn't
> speed things up that much. If all the variables are known to be of a
> specific type then you could expect C like speeds from a good JIT, but
> without global analysis it's hard to see how we infer/guarantee python
> types.

Well, that's certainly a problem, but Bicycle Repair Man seems to
do a pretty good job of type inference, at least for refactoring.

One of the things to consider here is that a decent JIT interpreter
would automatically change the playing field for what is good
practice and what isn't, at least if you expect performance.

John Roth
> -- 
> Robin Becker





From adechert at earthlink.net  Mon Jul 21 17:55:59 2003
From: adechert at earthlink.net (Alan Dechert)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 21:55:59 GMT
Subject: Voting Project Needs Python People
References: <LDVSa.14955$Mc.1126731@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <3F1C31B1.B44774BA@engcorp.com> <2oWSa.113024$Io.9679242@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <3F1C51BB.AC355795@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <PjZSa.15318$Mc.1151865@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>

"Peter Hansen" <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message
news:3F1C51BB.AC355795 at engcorp.com...
> Alan Dechert wrote:
> >
> > "Peter Hansen" <peter at engcorp.com> wrote in message
> > news:3F1C31B1.B44774BA at engcorp.com...
> > > Alan Dechert wrote:
> > > >
> > > > We are pulling together a great voting modernization projects.
[snip]
> > >
> > > Is there a word missing in the above?  I can't parse it as-is, but it
> > > looks like it wants the word "many" after the word "great"...
> > >
> > Editing error.  I started to say, "the mother of all voting
modernization
> > projects."
> >
> > You get the idea.
>
> I do now.  Thanks.  "The mother of all" has a distinctly different
> character than "pulling together a great many".  One hopes there will
> not also be dozens of other such projects going on in parallel, wasting
> resources.
>
There are various public and private voting machine development efforts
going on, but nothing like ours.  I'm the guy when it comes to PC based open
source voting machine with a printer.  The reason I'm still at it is that
when people get the idea they'd like to work on such a thing and start
making inquiries, they wind up getting referred to me.  When it comes to the
top experts in this area, there really aren't very many -- and we tend to
know each other.  Some of the very top voting technology experts (e.g., Roy
Saltman and Doug Jones) are closely associated with this project.  Several
key people on our project were referrals from Stanford computer scientist
David Dill.  http://www.verifiedvoting.org/index.asp

Alan Dechert





From kamikaze at kuoi.asui.uidaho.edu  Tue Jul  1 03:34:44 2003
From: kamikaze at kuoi.asui.uidaho.edu (Mark 'Kamikaze' Hughes)
Date: 1 Jul 2003 07:34:44 GMT
Subject: Python executables?
References: <mailman.1056619905.13226.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrnbg2eaf.2r2d.kamikaze@kuoi.asui.uidaho.edu>

Thu, 26 Jun 2003 12:37:23 +0300, Catalin <ady982 at ploiesti.astral.ro>:
> How can I make executables with python?
> I found some utilities that claim they can do something like that like 
> Installer and py2exe but they actualy pack the code in a huge arhive! 
> This solves the problem of giving python programs to users who don't 
> have python but doesn't solve the problem of the source "secrecy" 
> (copyright).

  You can use python -OO to produce .pyo "optimized" files, and then
just ship those.  .pyo isn't truly optimized or completely binary, but
it's about as secure as Python normally gets.  .pyo classes are tied to
specific versions of Python, but if you're using py2exe, that's not a
problem.

  Anyone with a decompiler will still be able to get at them, and there
are AFAIK no obfuscators for Python, but at least it closes the door,
even if it doesn't lock it.

  Ultimately, the only way to have full secrecy is to keep all your code
on a trusted server (and hope nobody ever breaks in), and only give the
users a minimal dumb client.

-- 
 <a href="http://kuoi.asui.uidaho.edu/~kamikaze/"> Mark Hughes </a>
"We remain convinced that this is the best defensive posture to adopt in
order to minimize casualties when the Great Old Ones return from beyond
the stars to eat our brains." -Charlie Stross, _The Concrete Jungle_



From dave at pythonapocrypha.com  Fri Jul 11 16:03:01 2003
From: dave at pythonapocrypha.com (Dave Brueck)
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 14:03:01 -0600
Subject: Small Python, Java comparison
Message-ID: <200307111403.01028.dave@pythonapocrypha.com>

Below is some information I collected from a *small* project in which I wrote 
a Python version of a Java application. I share this info only as a data 
point (rather than trying to say this data "proves" something) to consider 
the next time the "Python makes developers more productive" thread starts up 
again.

Background
==========
An employee who left our company had written a log processor we use to read 
records from text files (1 record per line), do a bunch of computations on 
them, and load them into various tables in our database. Typically each day 
there are 1000 to 2000 files with a total number of records being around 100 
million. The nature of the work the processor's work (some of it is 
summarizing data) results in about 1 database insert or update for about 
every 20 "raw" log records.

After this employee left I inherited this chunk of code and the first thing I 
did was create a fairly comprehensive test suite for it (in Python) because 
there was no test suite and in the past we had had many problems with bugs 
and flakiness in the code. As I did this I got pretty familiar with how the 
code worked and noticed lots of places where the language seemed to "get in 
the way" of what needed to be done. During this time I also began hearing 
rumblings about how this processor would need to be extended to add more 
functionality, so I thought I'd start rewriting it in Python on the side just 
to see how it would turn out (the idea being that if I got it done and it was 
good enough then I could simply implement the new functionality in the Python 
version :) ).

Data
====
The Java version is for the Java 1.4 platform (uses the Sun JVM), and it 
connects to an Oracle 9 database on our LAN via the thin JDBC driver provided 
by Oracle. As far as complexity goes, I'd rate the problem itself as 
non-trivial but not rocket science. :) Implementing it in Java turned out to 
be fairly involved; a lot of the complexity there revolved around efficiently 
maintaining data structures in memory that didn't get committed to the 
database until the end of each separate file. The developer for the Java 
version has about as much experience as a developer as I do, and he has about 
as much experience with Java as I do with Python (IOW, I don't consider that 
to be much of a differentiating factor - although the Java developer has 
*way* more database experience than I do).

From the start of the design to the end of the implementation and initial 
round of bug fixing took 3 weeks. An additional 2-3 weeks were spent 
optimizing the code and fixing more bugs. The source code had 4700 lines in 9 
files. When running, it would process an average of 1050 records per second 
(where process = time to parse the file, do calculations, and insert them 
into the database).

The Python version is for Python 2.1.3 and it connects to the same Oracle 
database using DCOracle2. The implementation is very straightforward, nothing 
fancy. It's also still pretty "pristine" as I haven't had any time to try and 
optimize it yet. :) One of the biggest simplifying factors in the code was 
how easy it was to have dictionaries map dynamically-defined and 
arbitrarily-complex keys (made up of object tuples) to other objects. For 
whatever reason this seemed to be a huge factor in making data management go 
from a difficult problem to almost a no-brainer. If the Python version had 
come first and the Java one second, then some of that approach could have 
made it into the Java version, but in Java I don't find myself thinking about 
problems quite the same way - IOW the Python version's approach wouldn't be 
as obvious in Java or would seem to be too much up-front work (whereas the 
approach that was used was easier up front but in the end became quite 
complex and a limiting factor to adding new functionality IMO).

Because I wasn't working on this full-time, the development was spread out 
over the course of two weeks (10 working days) at an average of just over 2 
hours per day (for a total of not quite 3 full days of work). The source code 
was less than 700 lines in 4 files. Most surprising to me was that it 
processes an average of 1200 records per second! I had assumed that after I 
got it working I'd need to spend time optimizing things to make up for Java 
having a JIT compiler to speed things up, but for now I won't bother.

Both versions could be improved by splitting the log parsing/summarizing and 
database work into two separate threads (watching the processes I see periods 
of high CPU usage followed by near-idle time while the database churns away). 
Currently the Java version averages 47% CPU utilization and the Python 
version averages 51%.

Caveats
=======
There are a million reasons why this isn't an apple-to-apple comparison or why 
somebody might read this and cry "foul!"; here's a few off the top of my 
head:

- The second time you write something you can do it better - since development 
is often part exploratory, once you're done you usually have a good idea of 
how to do it better were you to do it again. I didn't write the first 
version, but writing the test suite (and fixing the bugs it uncovered) made 
me familiar with the weaknesses in the initial version.
- It's proprietary code; nobody else can see the two versions of source - Too 
bad. ;-)
- I haven't bothered to do a "true" LOC count for both versions - I just did 
"wc -l *.py" and "wc -l *.java" to get line counts - so comments and other 
junk is included in the line totals.
- My development time didn't include much design time because my design was 
mostly a reaction to the Java implementation.
- I used the thin Java driver (written in pure Java) and DCOracle 2 (uses 
native driver on Linux) - this may affect performance some.

Conclusion
==========
Like I said before, I'd hesitate to read *too* much into this experience, 
although I will say it's a more concrete and confirming example of what I 
(and many others) have experienced before - that there are some big 
productivity gains by using Python over some other languages. It's generally 
hard to measure this sort of thing because it's rare to do a rewrite without 
adding functionality, and the larger the project the more rare this becomes, 
so even though this is a very small example it's still useful. I certainly 
wouldn't have gotten "approval" to do the simple rewrite, but doing it in my 
spare time and having a comprehensive test suite made it possible.

Anyway, for a very small development cost I ended up with a codebase 15% of 
the size of the original, and an implementation that will be far easier to 
extend (and easier to pass off to somebody else!). In order to get smaller 
and cleaner code I had been willing to take a modest performance hit, but in 
the end the new version was slightly faster too - icing on the cake!

-Dave




From kericks272 at earthlink.net  Sun Jul 13 21:33:07 2003
From: kericks272 at earthlink.net (ken)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 01:33:07 GMT
Subject: Using PMW?
Message-ID: <nLnQa.780$Mc.54185@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>

Please pardon my ignorance regarding this question, I'm new to Python.

I'm running Python 2.2.3 (win32) with the latest download of Python
MegaWidgets 1.1.  I'm attempting to run the demos but get the following:

C:\Python22\Pmw\demos>python all.py
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "all.py", line 84, in ?
    DemoVersion.setPmwVersion()
  File "DemoVersion.py", line 32, in setPmwVersion
    if version in Pmw.installedversions():
AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'installedversions'

C:\Python22\Pmw\demos>python colors.py
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "colors.py", line 44, in ?
    Pmw.initialise(root, fontScheme = 'pmw1')
AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'initialise'

Is this a problem with the libray not being found?  I've read the docs with
the widgets and it seems to be straight forward.  I'm hoping someone has the
answer.

TIA





From guettler at thomas-guettler.de  Thu Jul 17 07:40:00 2003
From: guettler at thomas-guettler.de (Thomas =?ISO-8859-15?Q?G=FCttler?=)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 13:40:00 +0200
Subject: tkinter: Better Traceback
References: <bf3egf$agtqo$1@ID-63505.news.uni-berlin.de> <mailman.1058367564.11299.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bf61ug$bbokc$1@ID-63505.news.uni-berlin.de>

Fredrik Lundh wrote:

> Thomas G?ttler wrote:
> 
>> Is there a way to get a better traceback in tkinter?
>> It would be nice to see the line number of the last line
>> of "my" code.
>>
>> Exception in Tkinter callback
>> Traceback (most recent call last):
>>   File
>>   "/var/tmp/python-2.2.2-build//usr/lib/python2.2/lib-tk/Tkinter.py",
>> line 1299, in __call__
>>     args = apply(self.subst, args)
>>   File
>>   "/var/tmp/python-2.2.2-build//usr/lib/python2.2/lib-tk/Tkinter.py",
>> line 1035, in _substitute
>>     e.height = getint(h)
>> ValueError: invalid literal for int(): ??
> 
> it's not a bug in your code, it's an incompatible change in Tk 8.4.2,
> which uses "??" to represent an "undefined integer".
> 
> either upgrade your Tkinter (Python 2.3 contains a workaround), or down-
> grade your Tk to 8.4.1 or earlier (or link Tkinter against Tk 8.3.x).

Hi Fredrik,

Both solutions are need to change this which only root can do.
The application will be installed on several workstations
running Suse Linux8.2. Is there a workaround?

Would be good if I could use the default python (2.2.2) 
and TK version (8.4.2).

 thomas





From christian.knoblauch at icn.siemens.de  Mon Jul 21 10:13:52 2003
From: christian.knoblauch at icn.siemens.de (Christian Knoblauch)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 16:13:52 +0200
Subject: COM interface to the Python interpreter
Message-ID: <bfgsf3$iuh$1@news.mch.sbs.de>

Hello all,

under Win32 it is possible to use Python as a scripting language inside ASP
pages (win32lib package), so there must be a COM interface to the Python
interpreter.

I like to use this interface instead of writing my own COM server to invoke
Python scripts from COM aware languages,  unfortunately i can not find the
type-library for this interface.

Can one provide this information (perhaps with an litle example) ?

Thanks in advance !

By,
Christian





From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Jul 14 00:09:59 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 00:09:59 -0400
Subject: new in town
References: <AeVPa.445271$Vi5.11496890@news1.calgary.shaw.ca> <mailman.1058024839.27499.python-list@python.org> <xBYPa.418026$3C2.11372267@news3.calgary.shaw.ca>
Message-ID: <3F122D17.A306A02D@engcorp.com>

(Top-posting fixed.   Elaine, please don't top-post.  Thank you.)

Elaine Jackson wrote:
> Gerhard H?ring <gh at ghaering.de> wrote in message
> news:mailman.1058024839.27499.python-list at python.org...
> | This and many more of your questions to come will be answered by the
> | Python FAQ, btw: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw.py
> 
> As comforting as it is to know that there are "several ways of doing this", I'd
> be even happier if I knew the name of just one of those ways. The FAQ searcher
> doesn't seem to understand lengthy explanations and hand-waving.

The best way to use the FAQ is to read or at least skim through
the *whole* thing from top to bottom.  Unwillingness to do so 
indicates you don't value the time of those of us who try to help
others in this newsgroup, and you may encounter some reluctance
from us to help those who won't help themselves.  

Please read the FAQ before posting questions.  That's good advice
for anyone who is new to this group.  It doesn't take long and the
information will go a long way towards helping you understand the
language and community.

Cheers,
-Peter



From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Thu Jul 31 11:02:30 2003
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 11:02:30 -0400
Subject: time, calendar, datetime, etc
References: <153fa67.0307300326.45a29380@posting.google.com>        <mailman.1059593025.652.python-list@python.org>        <bg9utn$59g$1@news7.svr.pol.co.uk> <mailman.1059656902.23276.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <viibsa9b55pkd2@news.supernews.com>

"Skip Montanaro" <skip at pobox.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.1059656902.23276.python-list at python.org...
>

>
> I couldn't pick an asctime()-generated date out of a lineup.  For most
> logging I think it makes sense to use sortable numeric dates (ISO-8601).
> Besides sortability, they are indifferent to language and unambiguous.
> There are many little variations in "human readable" dates, even those
which
> are so-called standards.  Someone always gets things "wrong".  Quick,
what's
> the format of an RFC-822 date?  Is it the same as an RFC-2822 date?  What
> about RFC-1036?  RFC-850?
>
> Not that I have any claim to have been complaining loud and clear about
this
> problem back in 1982 and 1983 when these RFC were written (or earlier,
when
> the systems they codified were first developed), but I don't think there's
> any use in further propagating arcane date formats.

Amen, brother!

John Roth
>
> Skip
>
>





From exarkun at intarweb.us  Tue Jul 22 10:28:42 2003
From: exarkun at intarweb.us (Jp Calderone)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 10:28:42 -0400
Subject: Memory errors when using imaplib with large email attachments
In-Reply-To: <2144d9df.0307220353.a958f84@posting.google.com>
References: <2144d9df.0307220353.a958f84@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20030722142842.GA17435@intarweb.us>

On Tue, Jul 22, 2003 at 04:53:36AM -0700, Richard Walkington wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> I'm using python to connect to an IMAP server and download mail. When
> downloading messages with large attachements (> 10MB) Python socket
> module crashes with a memory error. Is there anything I can do about
> this?

  Short of hacking on imaplib.py yourself (and then using this modified
version), I don't believe so.

  I would recommend using Twisted's IMAP support, which uses temporary files
(among other strategies) to keep memory usage within reason.

    http://www.twistedmatrix.com/

  The IMAP API is still in a very minor state of flux, but there should be
no futher changes that seriously break application code using it.

  Jp

-- 
A sad spectacle.  If they be inhabited, what a scope for misery 
and folly.  If they be not inhabited, what a waste of space.
                -- Thomas Carlyle, looking at the stars




From sorry_i_am_tired_of_spam at refuse.com  Wed Jul 16 19:32:16 2003
From: sorry_i_am_tired_of_spam at refuse.com (David McNab)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 11:32:16 +1200
Subject: Choosing the right framework
References: <mailman.1058360129.5550.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2003.07.16.23.32.16.64560@refuse.com>

On Wed, 16 Jul 2003 14:54:16 +0200, Carsten Gehling paused, took a deep
breath, then came out with:

> Oh how often this subject may come up...
> 
> The thing is, I've come to the decision of abandoning PHP as much as
> possible (old projects still remain...), and use Python for all purposes.
> Reason: One language to fit it all (instead of having one language for
> webprogramming, one for batches, etc...)
> 
> I stand now at the point where I must choose a framework for my web
> application development. I've skimmed a few: mod_python, pso and Zope.
> However, I cannot decide on which to choose.

I've been working on an HTML generation framework called 'pyWeb'. Just
posted to this ng yesterday, calling for testers.

You might like to visit http://www.freenet.org.nz/python/pyweb and have a
look.

Cheers
David




From http  Tue Jul 22 13:01:10 2003
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 22 Jul 2003 10:01:10 -0700
Subject: Possible use of Python for a voting machine demo project -- your feedback requested
References: <P9DSa.111436$Io.9552373@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <bff56e$8iv$1@slb9.atl.mindspring.net> <zXFSa.111727$Io.9572470@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <bfh7rs$hmv$1@slb4.atl.mindspring.net> <hekohvcn9ibe3dik8g7vb2136768e67id7@4ax.com> <7xbrvnmqzp.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <g6hqhvgkhnjff7k0bbnbnsuam02j2bdjbk@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <7x4r1exzqh.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Marc Wilson <marc at cleopatra.co.uk> writes:
> Ah.  That's a whole load of trouble we don't have.  To stand for election,
> here, you have to pony up a deposit, which you lose if you don't get a
> certain percentage of the vote.  It's to discourage "frivolous" campaigns,
> supposedly.  IIRC, it's around GBP 1000; about USD 1500.

Here, you have to get a certain number of voter signatures on
petitions, plus pay a bunch of fees, to get your name actually printed
on the ballot.  But when voting, you can write in the name of anyone
you want.

Senator Strom Thurmond, who died recently at age 100, was originally
elected to the US Senate through a write-in campaign in 1954.  He went
on to serve in the Senate for longer than anyone in history.  Today,
of course, someone winning a major office like a US Senate seat by
write-in would be practically unthinkable.  But occasionally a
write-in candidate wins a local office, or affects the outcome of a
local election.  Tom Ammiano ran for mayor of San Francisco as a
write-in candidate a couple of years ago and got 25 percent of the
vote (apparently getting over 70% in his core neighborhoods), coming
in second in a race with three non-write-in candidates listed on the
ballot.  That was enough to get Ammiano into a run-off election (which
he lost with about 40%, but he was considered to have serious chances
of winning).  Ammiano spent about $25K on his write-in campaign while
the guy who came in first spent over $3 million.

So write-in campaigns are not necessarily "frivolous".



From skip at pobox.com  Sat Jul 12 11:37:13 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 10:37:13 -0500
Subject: Problem with MySQLdb on Mac OS X...
In-Reply-To: <110720032317344670%candiazoo@mac.com>
References: <110720032317344670%candiazoo@mac.com>
Message-ID: <16144.11049.435354.511911@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    Mike> I made modifications to setup.py to set safe threading to NO and
    Mike> also to point to the "real" location of the mysql libraries and
    Mike> stuff like that.  To test it I wrote a simple script that just
    Mike> tries to connect to the database.  It fails.  It also fails
    Mike> interactively.  Here is what I am getting...

Your script worked fine for me (Mac OS X 10.2.6, Python 2.3b1+), though I
didn't modify setup.py (at least not that I recall - it's been awhile).

    Mike> The download, build and install went fine.  This same code works
    Mike> (well, different database name, user and password) on a different
    Mike> machine.  The database, username and password are all correct.

The only change I made was that the database is remote, so I set the host as
well.

Skip




From kaericksonsprint at earthlink.net  Sun Jul 13 17:01:18 2003
From: kaericksonsprint at earthlink.net (Ken Erickson)
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 21:01:18 GMT
Subject: sample code from John Grayson's "Python and Tkinter Programning" book
Message-ID: <3f11c0d5.19274484@news.earthlink.net>

Does anyone know if the example code in John Grayson's book is
available online?  He has some interesting examples and I really don't
want to spend hours re-typing his work (too many typo's late at
night).  I rather spend time walking through the code via the
debugger.

TIA.



From vivek at cs.unipune.ernet.in  Tue Jul 29 04:29:39 2003
From: vivek at cs.unipune.ernet.in (vivek at cs.unipune.ernet.in)
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 13:59:39 +0530
Subject: How to get success/failure in case of thread
In-Reply-To: <16165.10847.483917.787182@montanaro.dyndns.org>; from skip@pobox.com on Mon, Jul 28, 2003 at 08:51:27AM -0500
References: <20030728175542.A23857@cs.unipune.ernet.in> <16165.10847.483917.787182@montanaro.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <20030729135939.A11825@cs.unipune.ernet.in>

On Mon, Jul 28, 2003 at 08:51:27AM -0500, Skip Montanaro wrote:
> 
>     vivek>   import thread
>     vivek>   thread.start_new_thread(my_func,(args,))
> 
>     vivek> here my_func will return true/1 on success and false/0 on
>     vivek> failure. How can I check whether the function failed/succeeded
>     vivek> ???
> 
> Have the function (or a wrapper function) put() the return value on a Queue
> object, then get() it from there.
>

THX a lot..

But I think it will not work in case if I want to return some value from the 
function. 

Like currently I am trying to implement three tier application using python.

I mean a web server that will serve the http request, depending on the request
it will create an XML string and will pass it to another tier running 
XMLRPCServer. On this tier the XML string will be parsed and will take actions 
accordingly ( like insertion in database etc.) Now I want the SimpleXMLRPCServer
to create a new thread for the request that will process the particular request
and will return the success/failure message. 

How can I do that with the help of queue object?? 

TIA and kind Regards
Vivek Kumar




From kern at taliesen.caltech.edu  Fri Jul 11 17:02:45 2003
From: kern at taliesen.caltech.edu (Robert Kern)
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 21:02:45 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Securing 'pickle'
References: <pan.2003.07.11.01.20.47.998070@127.0.0.1>
    <slrnbgs4hc.hop.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>
    <7x1xwxu98y.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <3F0E1875.574DC6D7@alcyone.com>
    <mailman.1057892296.5329.python-list@python.org>
    <87k7apyuor.fsf@pobox.com>
    <mailman.1057948758.9023.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ben8ll$ruu$1@naig.caltech.edu>

In article <mailman.1057948758.9023.python-list at python.org>,
	Ian Bicking <ianb at colorstudy.com> writes:
> I should have said "securing cookies isn't hard", so that's not the
> reason not to use them (though you shouldn't just use plain-vanilla
> cookies).  

Right. Chocolate-chip at minimum.

What?

Oh. *Those* cookies.

-- 
Robert Kern
kern at caltech.edu

"In the fields of hell where the grass grows high
 Are the graves of dreams allowed to die."
  -- Richard Harter



From intentionally at blank.co.uk  Mon Jul 14 19:08:58 2003
From: intentionally at blank.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 00:08:58 +0100
Subject: anything like C++ references?
References: <000301c348c7$3c501980$21795418@dell1700> <sag3hv4vf884ed7ouu5cv8ofnopp9j1t12@4ax.com> <f0f51c80.0307132003.264b6894@posting.google.com> <7dc4hvslh7a8fk9p6cvsfqa1c8d44rmmnv@4ax.com> <beuepu$bsm$1@panix3.panix.com>
Message-ID: <sdd6hvsmsq32o62oknpqft6dc61lbup8rn@4ax.com>

On 14 Jul 2003 10:30:22 -0400, aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) wrote:

>In article <7dc4hvslh7a8fk9p6cvsfqa1c8d44rmmnv at 4ax.com>,
>Stephen Horne  <intentionally at blank.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>C++ has precisely one type of variable. That variable is a placeholder
>>for a value of a datatype which is specified in the declaration. The
>>datatype may be a pointer datatype, but so what? Pointer datatypes are
>>not treated any differently than other datatype except that they, like
>>all datatypes, they have their own set of functionality.
>
>Really?  I would argue that the differing syntaxes is an argument
>against a single type of variable.  What happens with this:
>
>char a;
>a->b;

To answer this, I simply have to restore the quote you deleted...

: On 13 Jul 2003 21:03:59 -0700, owski at hotmail.com (Adam Ruth) wrote:
: 
: >I don't see the arbitrary change.  Python has one type of variable: A
: >pointer that cannot itself be dereferenced.  It's much more consistent
: >then having 3 types of variables (in C++).

This is not referring to data types - there are far more than three
data types in C++. It is referring to whether something is a pointer
or a reference or not. The mistake in Adams post simply being that
these are simply datatypes.

You will note that even in my words, I tried to keep the distinction
clear by using the word 'datatypes' when I was referring to datatypes.

In fact, lets look back at my first two scentences in your quote of my
reply.

>>C++ has precisely one type of variable. That variable is a placeholder
>>for a value of a datatype which is specified in the declaration.

One *type* of variable, which is associated with its own *datatype*.

I find it hard to see how you could confuse this, but given my own
mistakes - well, we're all human I suppose.




From hokiegal99 at hotmail.com  Wed Jul 16 08:56:03 2003
From: hokiegal99 at hotmail.com (hokiegal99)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 08:56:03 -0400
Subject: <> and !=
Message-ID: <3F154B63.3060503@hotmail.com>

What is the difference between these two statements?

if newfile <> oldfile
if newfile != olfile

Thanks guys!!!




From dave at nullcube.com  Tue Jul 15 20:34:54 2003
From: dave at nullcube.com (Dave Harrison)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 10:34:54 +1000
Subject: Solaris 9, problem building Python 2.1.1
Message-ID: <20030716003454.GA2860@dave@alana.ucc.usyd.edu.au>

Ok before I start, please dont mail me telling me to use a more recent version of Python, I _would_ use 2.2.x but due to an existing framework all based on using 2.1.1 I have been specifically told to use 2.1.1 to avoid any crossover issues/problems.
Thanks ;-)

So ...

Using gcc Im compiling Python2.1.1, and it configures quite reasonably,
the ./configure is trascribed at the bottom of this email.

now once I have done that I compile it using make and it compiles just fine.
But once I start up the interpreter and 'import socket' I get the following error :
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
  File "/usr/local/lib/python2.1/socket.py", line 41, in ?
    from _socket import *
ImportError: ld.so.1: python2.1: fatal: libssl.so.0.9.6: open failed: No such file or directory

Now Ive looked through comp.lang.python for anything matching this, or solaris, etc but have come up pretty blank.

Has anyone got any good news or ideas for me on this ?
Cheers
Dave

Transcription of ./configure
*****************************************
creating cache ./config.cache
checking MACHDEP... sunos5
checking for --without-gcc... no
checking for --with-cxx=<compiler>... no
checking for c++... c++
checking whether the C++ compiler (c++  ) works... yes
checking whether the C++ compiler (c++  ) is a cross-compiler... no
checking for gcc... gcc
checking whether the C compiler (gcc  ) works... yes
checking whether the C compiler (gcc  ) is a cross-compiler... no
checking whether we are using GNU C... yes
checking whether gcc accepts -g... yes
checking for Cygwin environment... no
checking for mingw32 environment... no
checking for executable suffix... no
checking for --with-suffix... 
checking LIBRARY... libpython$(VERSION).a
checking LINKCC... $(PURIFY) $(CC)
checking LDLIBRARY... libpython$(VERSION).a
checking for ranlib... ranlib
checking for ar... ar
checking for a BSD compatible install... /usr/local/bin/install -c
checking how to run the C preprocessor... gcc -E
checking for AIX... no
checking for minix/config.h... no
checking whether gcc accepts -OPT:Olimit=0... no
checking whether gcc accepts -Olimit 1500... no
checking for ANSI C header files... yes
checking for dlfcn.h... yes
checking for fcntl.h... yes
checking for limits.h... yes
checking for locale.h... yes
checking for ncurses.h... yes
checking for poll.h... yes
checking for pthread.h... yes
checking for signal.h... yes
checking for stdarg.h... yes
checking for stddef.h... yes
checking for stdlib.h... yes
checking for thread.h... yes
checking for unistd.h... yes
checking for utime.h... yes
checking for termios.h... yes
checking for sys/audioio.h... yes
checking for sys/file.h... yes
checking for sys/lock.h... yes
checking for sys/modem.h... no
checking for db_185.h... no
checking for db.h... no
checking for sys/param.h... yes
checking for sys/poll.h... yes
checking for sys/select.h... yes
checking for sys/socket.h... yes
checking for sys/time.h... yes
checking for sys/times.h... yes
checking for sys/un.h... yes
checking for sys/utsname.h... yes
checking for sys/wait.h... yes
checking for pty.h... no
checking for libutil.h... no
checking for ndbm.h... yes
checking for db1/ndbm.h... no
checking for gdbm/ndbm.h... no
checking for sys/resource.h... yes
checking for dirent.h that defines DIR... yes
checking for opendir in -ldir... no
checking for clock_t in time.h... yes
checking for mode_t... yes
checking for off_t... yes
checking for pid_t... yes
checking return type of signal handlers... void
checking for size_t... yes
checking for uid_t in sys/types.h... yes
checking size of int... 4
checking size of long... 4
checking size of void *... 4
checking size of char... 1
checking size of short... 2
checking size of float... 4
checking size of double... 8
checking size of fpos_t... 4
checking for long long support... yes
checking size of long long... 8
checking for uintptr_t support... no
checking size of off_t... 4
checking whether to enable large file support... no
checking size of time_t... 4
checking for pthread_t... yes
checking size of pthread_t... 4
checking for --with-next-framework... no
checking for --with-dyld... no
checking SO... .so
checking LDSHARED... $(CC) -shared
checking CCSHARED... -fPIC
checking LINKFORSHARED... 
checking CFLAGSFORSHARED... 
checking for dlopen in -ldl... yes
checking for shl_load in -ldld... no
checking for --with-pydebug... no
checking for t_open in -lnsl... yes
checking for socket in -lsocket... yes
checking for --with-libs... no
checking for --with-signal-module... yes
checking for --with-dec-threads... no
checking for --with-threads... yes
checking for mach/cthreads.h... no
checking for --with-pth... no
checking for pthread_create in -lpthread... yes
checking for usconfig in -lmpc... no
checking for thr_create in -lthread... yes
checking for --with-cycle-gc... yes
checking for --with-pymalloc... no
checking for --with-wctype-functions... no
checking for --with-sgi-dl... no
checking for --with-dl-dld... no
checking for dlopen... yes
checking DYNLOADFILE... dynload_shlib.o
checking for alarm... yes
checking for chown... yes
checking for clock... yes
checking for confstr... yes
checking for ctermid... yes
checking for ctermid_r... yes
checking for execv... yes
checking for flock... no
checking for fork... yes
checking for fsync... yes
checking for fdatasync... no
checking for fpathconf... yes
checking for ftime... yes
checking for ftruncate... yes
checking for getgroups... yes
checking for getlogin... yes
checking for getpeername... yes
checking for getpid... yes
checking for getpwent... yes
checking for getwd... yes
checking for kill... yes
checking for link... yes
checking for lstat... yes
checking for mkfifo... yes
checking for mktime... yes
checking for mremap... no
checking for nice... yes
checking for pathconf... yes
checking for pause... yes
checking for plock... yes
checking for poll... yes
checking for pthread_init... no
checking for putenv... yes
checking for readlink... yes
checking for select... yes
checking for setegid... yes
checking for seteuid... yes
checking for setgid... yes
checking for setlocale... yes
checking for setregid... yes
checking for setreuid... yes
checking for setsid... yes
checking for setpgid... yes
checking for setuid... yes
checking for setvbuf... yes
checking for sigaction... yes
checking for siginterrupt... yes
checking for sigrelse... yes
checking for strftime... yes
checking for strptime... yes
checking for symlink... yes
checking for sysconf... yes
checking for tcgetpgrp... yes
checking for tcsetpgrp... yes
checking for tempnam... yes
checking for timegm... no
checking for times... yes
checking for tmpfile... yes
checking for tmpnam... yes
checking for tmpnam_r... yes
checking for truncate... yes
checking for uname... yes
checking for waitpid... yes
checking for _getpty... no
checking for getpriority... yes
checking for openpty... no
checking for openpty in -lutil... no
checking for forkpty... no
checking for forkpty in -lutil... no
checking for fseek64... no
checking for fseeko... yes
checking for fstatvfs... yes
checking for ftell64... no
checking for ftello... yes
checking for statvfs... yes
checking for dup2... yes
checking for getcwd... yes
checking for strdup... yes
checking for strerror... yes
checking for memmove... yes
checking for getpgrp... yes
checking for setpgrp... yes
checking for gettimeofday... yes
checking whether time.h and sys/time.h may both be included... yes
checking whether struct tm is in sys/time.h or time.h... time.h
checking for tm_zone in struct tm... no
checking for tzname... yes
checking for time.h that defines altzone... yes
checking whether sys/select.h and sys/time.h may both be included... yes
checking whether char is unsigned... no
checking for working const... yes
checking for working volatile... yes
checking for working signed char... yes
checking for prototypes... yes
checking for variable length prototypes and stdarg.h... yes
checking for bad exec* prototypes... no
checking for bad static forward... no
checking whether va_list is an array... no
checking for gethostbyname_r... yes
checking gethostbyname_r with 6 args... no
checking gethostbyname_r with 5 args... yes
checking for __fpu_control... no
checking for __fpu_control in -lieee... no
checking for --with-fpectl... no
checking for --with-libm=STRING... default LIBM="-lm"
checking for --with-libc=STRING... default LIBC=""
checking for hypot... yes
checking what malloc(0) returns... null
checking for wchar.h... yes
checking for usable wchar_t... no
checking whether byte ordering is bigendian... yes
checking whether right shift extends the sign bit... yes
checking for getc_unlocked() and friends... yes
checking for rl_completion_matches in -lreadline... no
checking for broken nice()... no
checking for socklen_t... yes
checking for build directories... done
updating cache ./config.cache
creating ./config.status
creating Makefile.pre
creating Modules/Setup.config
creating config.h
creating Setup
creating Setup.local
creating Makefile
*****************************************




From davidcfox at post.harvard.edu  Tue Jul 22 17:27:19 2003
From: davidcfox at post.harvard.edu (David C. Fox)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 21:27:19 GMT
Subject: wxpython display jpg in a frame
In-Reply-To: <Xns93C3E5CBB1F33maxnowherecom@212.68.193.222>
References: <Xns93C3E5CBB1F33maxnowherecom@212.68.193.222>
Message-ID: <X_hTa.111427$sY2.49105@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net>

max4 wrote:

> hello
> i would like to know if there is a good tutorial about how to do this
> or if someone could explain
> 
> thank you
> 
> [ i want to add a jpg to an existing about dialog]


Create a wxImage from the jpg file, and then a wxBitmap from the image, 
then a wxStaticBitmap control from the bitmap.

for example,

     i = wxImage("about.jpg", wxBITMAP_TYPE_JPEG)
     b = wxBitmapFromImage(i)
     sb = wxStaticBitmap(dialog, b, pos, size)

As usual, see the wxPython demo for more details.

David




From Aaron.Buhr at campuscommgroup.com  Wed Jul 30 14:02:38 2003
From: Aaron.Buhr at campuscommgroup.com (Aaron Buhr)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 18:02:38 GMT
Subject: Webware application question
Message-ID: <2LTVa.13085$Oz4.4738@rwcrnsc54>

    Hello all.  I am looking to rebuild our corporate website from Cold
Fusion to Python/WebWare/Cheetah.  I am new to all three, so I apologize in
advance if my questions are ignorant.  I do not understand how one would
cache database connections using WebWare.  At this point I do not want to
use Middlekit, but I would like to compartmentalize all my database
connection code and cache it for performance.

    The intent would be to have a shared connection pool that my pages would
request an open connection from, utilize for SQL code, then give back to the
db caching system.  Specifically I do not understand where I would put the
code to do this.  Would I subclass the Application class and put my db
caching code in there?  If not, how would I make the db caching code
consistent to all my pages?  I could make a db cache class that would then
be available to all my pages, but I am not sure how to make the same
instance of that class (which is where all the cached connections would
live) available to all pages.

    Thanks!

Aaron Buhr
Campus Communications Group, Inc.





From g2h5dqi002 at sneakemail.com  Mon Jul 28 00:05:58 2003
From: g2h5dqi002 at sneakemail.com (Greg Ewing (using news.cis.dfn.de))
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 16:05:58 +1200
Subject: How to link a C extension module on Mac OS X?
In-Reply-To: <7h31xwgthve.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>
References: <ef08387c.0307230528.441883e1@posting.google.com> <mailman.1058972255.22070.python-list@python.org> <bfnu36$gptcg$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de> <mailman.1059034791.1817.python-list@python.org> <7h31xwgthve.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <bg25j5$jpb1s$1@ID-169208.news.uni-berlin.de>

Michael Hudson wrote:
> It works.  Don't know why, mind -- the files end .so when shared
> libraries usually end .dylib on OS X -- but it does.

I think Darwin is using something like the original BSD
model for shared libraries, in which the .so was really
just a naming convention, and any object file could be
loaded at run time (albeit with a possible performance
penalty if it wasn't designed for it).

Although Darwin seems to have a couple of different
flavours of dynamic linking. When the OS X docs talk about
a "dynamically linked" library, they seem to be referring
to a mechanism which defers resolving references to functions
until the first time they're called. It appears that it's
possible for code to be loaded at run time without being
"dynamically linked" in that sense.

It probably helps that Python is explicitly loading the
code, in which case it probably doesn't matter what the
filename is.

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg




From bokr at oz.net  Mon Jul 14 11:36:12 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 14 Jul 2003 15:36:12 GMT
Subject: anything like C++ references?
References: <000301c348c7$3c501980$21795418@dell1700> <jf22hvotj4n0q5tpkg627e3jv61norf93n@4ax.com> <3F11106A.65FDA8F2@alcyone.com> <iqm2hvs77lhe1m71v9b579070khbf0uv0a@4ax.com> <berqqd$ad5$1@panix3.panix.com> <brs2hv8edfv0d1fch9mha8otuulajnkh0g@4ax.com> <besngh$ohf$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <beuilc$gjm$0@216.39.172.122>

On 13 Jul 2003 22:46:41 GMT, bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) wrote:
[...]
Re-reading, I see that I should probably fill in some details (still subject to
disclaimer ;-)
>
>Python name assignment does not do anything to an object. It just creates
>an alias name for an object. It may reuse an existing name, but that only
>changes the meaning of that name as an alias, it does not affect the object
>that the name was previously an alias for.
>
>You can of course have other assignment targets than plain names. In fact,
>a "plain name" is just the simplest expression for an assignment target.
>But whatever the target expression evaluates to, what gets put "there" is
>a reference to an object, not an object itself.
>
>The confusion, ISTM, is in what to think of as "there." "There" is definitely
>not a memory space for a Python object representation or "value". 
>
>The most accurate (UIAM) C concept would be a "there" of type PyObject* -- i.e.,
>a pointer variable that points to the representation of some kind of Python object.
>
I should have mentioned that there are various access mechanisms for storing the "pointer".
I.e., the left hand side doesn't evaluate to a raw address until you are in the machine language
of the implementation. When storage is actually happening, of course byte codes are being
interpreted by the virtual machine of the current Python version. The byte codes will
differ according to the translation of the target expression, and even for byte codes
that looks the same, the implementation may involve complex dynamic behavior, e.g., in
searches through an inheritance graph for an appropriate method that will accept the
rh object reference and do the ultimate implementation-pointer storage.

The byte codes with STORE in their names, and some typical source statements that generate them,
are (2.2.3 windows):

STORE_SLICE:    x[a:b]=y # four byte codes numbered as STORE_SLICE+(1 if a is present)+(2 if b is present)
STORE_SUBSCR:   x[a]=y
STORE_NAME:     x=y #in global scope
STORE_ATTR:     x.a=y
STORE_GLOBAL:   def foo(): global x; x=y
STORE_FAST:     def foo(): x=y
STORE_DEREF:    def foo():
                    x=y # the STORE_DEREF
                    def bar():return x
                    return bar

Note that, e.g., STORE_SUBSCR looks the same for lists and dictionaries, or even something
undetermined that will give a run time error because the type of x doesn't support that operation.

Storage is often mediated by various methods, e.g., __setitem__ but finding the ultimate
method may be the result of a search through an inheritance graph,
and/or it could find the setter function of a named property, and that function in turn
may do much work that is not visible in the assignment statement source, or the immediate
level of corresponding byte codes.

>We don't have to know the implementation details to use the idea that the left hand
>side of a Python assignment is an *expression* (even if a single name) that yields
>a place to put a reference (effectively a pointer) to the object created by evaluating
>the expression on the right hand side.
Again, I should have been clearer. It *ultimately* yields a place, but potentially deep
in the bytecode and ultimately machine code of some chain of method invocations and implementations.
>
>A C programmer will tend to think that a symbol on the left is a static expression
>indicating a specific fixed memory space (static address or stack frame offset). But in Python
>it is first of all a dynamic expression (though an unqualified target name can only have its "there"
>be in the local or global namespace, and the choice between those is made statically
Hm. There is a third choice. When variables of the local namespace are destined to be captured
in a closure, the "there" is in the closure, stored by way of STORE_DEREF.
>(at least w.r.t. a given level of compiling/exec-ing).
>
>In C terms, the Python assignment target expression always evaluates to a place to put a pointer,
I elided a fair abount of implementation detail in saying that, but I think the effective
semantics are ok.

>never a place to put object representation bits. Of course, "a place to put a pointer"
>may be *inside* an object. And such inside places are identified by target expressions
>such as x[2] or x.a or x[2]().b[3] etc. Even a bare name really does identify a place inside
>an object -- i.e., inside the local or global dict associated with the context.
>
>The "place" identified by x= after a global x declaration (or just in global scope) will be the
>same place as globals()['x']= unless someone has subverted something. Either way, the binding
>of the name to the object happens by evaluating to a "there" within the global dict object,
>uniquely associated with the name ('x' here). Evaluated on the right hand side, that name will
>produce the reference/pointer again for use in accessing the object or copying to another "there"
>associated with perhaps some other name or a target within a composite object like a list or tuple,
>or other namespace dict.
>
>>
>>The wart remains, even if my description was wrong. And even that is a
>>dubious claim.
>>
>Every assignment is effectively stores a referential alias for an object,
>whether associated with a name or not. This is by design, not a wart.
>
The details of *how* an assignment "effectively stores" is a longer story though ;-)

>>A Python user is interested in how an object behaves - not how it is
>>internally implemented in the interpreter. Immutable objects don't
>when you say "immutable objects," are you really speaking of names
>bound to immutable objects? I.e., the integer 123 is an immutable object
>represented by the literal 123. You get an immutable object of the same value
>from the expression int('123'). These are the int *objects* -- how does
>"behave as references" apply to these actual "immutable objects"?
>I.e., could you rewrite your sentence (that this is breaking in two)
>to make it perhaps more understandable for me ?;-)
>
>Names are not objects. Nor are left-hand-side assignment target expressions
>in general, whether bare names or complicated.
>
>ISTM what you are discussing is not about objects but about the way names work,
>and ISTM you are thinking of names as if they were C++ variable references,
>which they are not, and they couldn't be. For one thing, a C++ reference type
>has to be initialized once to refer to a specific object. It can't be made to
>refer to something else during the life of that scope. Pointers are a better
>model, since you have to distinguish by expression syntax whether you mean
>to assign a new pointer value or modify the thing pointed to. In python you
>can only assign pointers, if you want to think in those terms. When you
>modify a mutable, you are still assigning pointers into some part of the
>mutable object representation. When you assign to a bare name, you are still assigning
>a pointer into a place in some dictionary object (or workalike). If you
>want to modify an object in the usual C sense, you can code it in C and provide a
>python interface to your C-implemented object. When you pass arguments
>to the various methods of your mutable, you will get pointers that you
>can dereference and you can do what you want to your mutable's C data representation.
>But when you pass the result back to the python world, it will have to be
>as a standard object reference/pointer, and if you assign that, you will be
>storing a pointer somewhere.
>
>>behave as references - the internal use of references for immutable
>>objects is basically a lazy copying optimisation and, apart from
>>performace and a couple of other technicalities (e.g. the 'is'
>>operator), has no relevance. Certainly it has no relevance to the
>>point I was making.
>>
>The way it works is part of the semantics of the language, not just
>an optimization issue.
>
>Names aren't variables.
>
>HTH ;-)
>
><disclaimer>I sometimes get things wrong. Corrections welcome.</disclaimer>
>

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From bgailer at alum.rpi.edu  Fri Jul 25 14:20:57 2003
From: bgailer at alum.rpi.edu (Bob Gailer)
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 12:20:57 -0600
Subject: How to detect typos in Python programs
In-Reply-To: <ZPaUa.6$gZ.133@news.oracle.com>
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20030725115739.03ae9638@66.28.54.253>

At 07:26 PM 7/25/2003 +0530, Manish Jethani wrote:

>Hi all,
>
>Is there a way to detect typos in a Python program, before
>actually having to run it.  Let's say I have a function like this:
>
>   def server_closed_connection():
>     session.abost()
>
>Here, abort() is actually misspelt.  The only time my program
>follows this path is when the server disconnects from its
>end--and that's like once in 100 sessions.  So sometimes I
>release the program, people start using it, and then someone
>reports this typo after 4-5 days of the release (though it's
>trivial to fix manually at the user's end, or I can give a patch).
>
>How can we detect these kinds of errors at development time?
>It's not practical for me to have a test script that can make
>the program go through all (most) the possible code paths.

consider:
  use a regular expression to get a list of all the identifiers in the program
  count occurrence of each by adding to/updating a dictionary
  sort and display the result

program_text = """  def server_closed_connection():
     session.abost()"""
import re
words = re.findall(r'([A-Za-z_]\w*)\W*', program_text) # list of all 
identifiers
wordDict = {}
for word in words: wordDict[word] = wordDict.setdefault(word,0)+1 # dict of 
identifiers w/ occurrence count
wordList = wordDict.items()
wordList.sort()
for wordCount in wordList: print '%-25s %3s' % wordCount

output (approximate, as I used tabs):

abost                           1
def                             1
server_closed_connection        1
session                 1

You can then examine this list for suspect names, especially those that 
occur once. We could apply some filtering to remove keywords and builtin names.

We could add a comment at the start of the program containing all the valid 
names, and extend this process to report just the ones that are not in the 
valid list.

Bob Gailer
bgailer at alum.rpi.edu
303 442 2625
-------------- next part --------------

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From maoy_REMOVE_IF_NOT_SPAM at cis.upenn.edu  Fri Jul 11 14:50:00 2003
From: maoy_REMOVE_IF_NOT_SPAM at cis.upenn.edu (Yun Mao)
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 14:50:00 -0400
Subject: How to get all IP addresses in python?
References: <belfv0$bqp4$1@netnews.upenn.edu> <6cd58b6.0307110715.1bb9bc23@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <ben0vb$cl8r$1@netnews.upenn.edu>

Sorry, this still doesn't work very well on my machine.

>>> print socket.getaddrinfo(socket.gethostname(), None)
[(2, 1, 6, '', ('127.0.0.1', 0)), (2, 2, 17, '', ('127.0.0.1', 0)), (2, 3,
0, '', ('127.0.0.1', 0))]
>>>

Any ideas? Thanks!

Yun

"Steve Pinard" <spinard at ra.rockwell.com> wrote in message
news:6cd58b6.0307110715.1bb9bc23 at posting.google.com...
> Try socket.getaddrinfo rather than socket.gethostbyname.  It returns a
> list of tuples.  tuple[4][0] of each list element is the IP address.
>
> addrs = socket.getaddrinfo(socket.gethostname(), None)
> for addr in addrs:
>     print addr[4][0]
>
> The above worked on my machine but I only have one NIC card.
>
> - Steve





From irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl  Wed Jul 30 08:35:46 2003
From: irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 14:35:46 +0200
Subject: Is there a standard module library function to access /etc/passwd
 or /etc/group
In-Reply-To: <16469f07.0307300416.351ba776@posting.google.com>
References: <16469f07.0307300416.351ba776@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3f27bba2$0$49113$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

Robin Cull wrote:

> Hi all, 
> 
> I'm writing a script that needs to do lookups on the UNIX passwd and
> groups file on textual usernames/group names and return numeric
> UID/GID.

Would the pwd and grp modules do the trick?

http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/module-pwd.html
http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/module-grp.html

--Irmen




From intentionally at blank.co.uk  Tue Jul 15 04:18:59 2003
From: intentionally at blank.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 09:18:59 +0100
Subject: anything like C++ references?
References: <000301c348c7$3c501980$21795418@dell1700> <jf22hvotj4n0q5tpkg627e3jv61norf93n@4ax.com> <3F11106A.65FDA8F2@alcyone.com> <iqm2hvs77lhe1m71v9b579070khbf0uv0a@4ax.com> <berqqd$ad5$1@panix3.panix.com> <brs2hv8edfv0d1fch9mha8otuulajnkh0g@4ax.com> <8vd6hv0sdvoitccmnj4pdj66ss2vg4ii3n@4ax.com> <5ir6hvof9m5rjh6i3u992l91un21qtmsh4@4ax.com> <bf09r0$fn9$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <hub7hvgjjm0prt5p3jn92npmb3gf777mr9@4ax.com>

On 15 Jul 2003 07:17:52 GMT, bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter) wrote:

>The syntax is like an optical illusion that can be seen more than one way,
>and you are projecting a non-python view onto the syntax, which is interfering
>with seeing the other view ;-)

I *do* see the other view, honest! (though I admit to mistakes earlier
on)

I just don't agree with it.

>Why don't you respect the possibility of a language that is *designed* to deal
>with entities and relationships in ways you are not used to? ;-)

Basically, because I've seen too many threads started by confused
people who've made a mistake because of this, and because I've made
the mistake an annoying number of times myself.

It's not just about theory - it's about peoples intuitions about how
things should work.

>>This is not difficult to achieve. The implementations of the C++
>The difficulty is not really relevant. It's not a goal for this language ;-)

A goal of Python is to be a 'very high level language'. Another is to
'do the right thing'.

In my view, the current implementation of Python with respect to
variable binding is against those goals. Especially in those cases
where mutability is abused to fake pointers, but in general too.

Am I seriously proposing a change? No. The scope of change needed
would be too great - too many knock on effects (such as the pointer
stuff), so it wouldn't be Python any more. I don't need to claim that
Python is perfect - I've never seen a perfect language - but Python is
pretty close. I can live with a couple of warts - even warts that
others don't see as warts.

>Why assume because some notion isn't used that it means disrespect?

I didn't mean 'respect' to be taken that way. The idea of respecting a
convention is a common English idiom. It simply means that you do what
the convention says.

> If you
>read "variable" where you should be reading "alias"

If I should be reading "alias", then how come the Python manuals say
"variable"?

>Expand your set of views. I think you will find one where you will see Python
>as doing the right thing, for the most part. ;-)

Always did, for the most part. I've been using Python since about '96
or '97. There must be some reason why!

As it happens, I'm a bit of a programming language obsessive. Mostly,
I've only played with languages though - it's just that I've played
with a lot of them. A number have fundamental and important ideas that
have stuck in my mind. Prolog and SQL for instance - I read somewhere
that Prolog is the bit of relational database management that got
missed out, and I kind of agree. Icon for generators and backtracking.
Miranda for my first taste of functional programming, and Haskell even
more so. A few others.

Python isn't really a member of that list. OK, there are a couple of
things that Python does differently, but nothing really profound that
I haven't seen elsewhere. Yet Python *is* my first choice programming
language for almost everything where I get a choice - for the
prototype if not always for the final code. I would say Python
provides a set of tools which are known to be useful from experience.
It isn't an experimental language. It doesn't obsess on one particular
concept. It is a language for getting things done with very little
fuss.

When people say I'm wrong and I see that I am wrong, I can admit it
and shut up. When people say I'm wrong and I still disagree, even over
a technicality, it tends to be a bit like a red rag to a bull - but
it's still a philosophical point, really.




From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Jul  7 07:57:26 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 07:57:26 -0400
Subject: Python Gurus; "Legend in their own Lunchtime"?
References: <3F0927C2.4000604@netspace.net.au>
Message-ID: <3F096026.91F89383@engcorp.com>

gmduncan wrote:
> 
> But am I the only one to feel discomforted by the many Olympian
> (questionable) judgements he scatters through the code, about
> every aspect of software development ? A better editor needed ...

If they're so questionable, why not question them?  About 
which ones, specifically, do you have a beef?  Maybe we can
discuss them here, and all agree that the author missed the
boat big time one pronouncement X or Y...  ;-)

-Peter



From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sun Jul 13 21:40:32 2003
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 13 Jul 2003 21:40:32 -0400
Subject: anything like C++ references?
References: <13t0hvsb7idh0g6ac3upe5k0qd6flc17ah@4ax.com> <pan.2003.07.13.10.58.11.376531@127.0.0.1> <3F11C42F.5030406@alcyone.com> <usmp9q5s6.fsf@boost-consulting.com>
Message-ID: <bet1mg$ht0$1@panix3.panix.com>

In article <usmp9q5s6.fsf at boost-consulting.com>,
David Abrahams  <dave at boost-consulting.com> wrote:
>Erik Max Francis <max at alcyone.com> writes:
>>
>> This is completely incorrect.  On the contrary, builtin types are
>> handled exactly uniformly in Python.  The only difference here is that
>> the builtin types that you've listed, along with some others, are
>> immutable, so you cannot change them if you have a reference to them.
>
>All you guys must be forgetting:
>
>   >>> a = [1]
>   >>> b = a
>   >>> a += b
>   >>> assert id(a) == id(b)
>   >>> a = 1
>   >>> b = a
>   >>> a += b
>   >>> assert id(a) == id(b)
>   Traceback...

I'm not forgetting that.  It's an unfortunate and tricky part of Python
semantics in some respects, but it's easily explained and understood if
you focus on the objects rather than the operation:

    a = foo
    b = a
    a = a.__iadd__(b)

Where id(a)==id(b) depends solely on the behavior of __iadd__().
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"Not everything in life has a clue in front of it...."  --JMS



From pecora at anvil.nrl.navy.mil  Wed Jul  2 14:59:05 2003
From: pecora at anvil.nrl.navy.mil (Louis M. Pecora)
Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 14:59:05 -0400
Subject: (Numeric) should -7 % 5 = -2 ?
References: <87k7b6cf3d.fsf_-_@schedar.com> <mailman.1056836805.17229.python-list@python.org> <290620030817191641%pecora@anvil.nrl.navy.mil> <3g32gvcolis4485956egtc35akm6lh3uq5@4ax.com> <mailman.1057088943.30504.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <020720031459050258%pecora@anvil.nrl.navy.mil>

In article <mailman.1057088943.30504.python-list at python.org>, Bob
Gailer <bgailer at alum.rpi.edu> wrote:

> "When an integer a is divided by another m, one has
>          a = km + r
> where the remainder is some positive integer less than m.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding this, but what about -7 divided by 5?  We
get k=-1 and r=-2.  

m can be negative.  Maybe your quote was for the positive integers only.

-- 
Lou Pecora
  - My views are my own.



From staschuk at telusplanet.net  Wed Jul 16 04:49:25 2003
From: staschuk at telusplanet.net (Steven Taschuk)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 02:49:25 -0600
Subject: Securing the Pyton Interpreter?
In-Reply-To: <JTCF/ks/K3WS089yn@the-wire.com>; from mwilson@the-wire.com on Tue, Jul 15, 2003 at 11:59:05AM -0400
References: <slrnbh7q3f.kiv.usenet@norge.freeshell.org> <JTCF/ks/K3WS089yn@the-wire.com>
Message-ID: <20030716024925.A3824@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>

Quoth Mel Wilson:
> seem to recall there are complications with suid on scripts
> .. though I don't recall what they are.

A simple example:  Let the file insecure_script contain
    #!/bin/sh
    grep 'f.*bar' $*
This script must not be made setuid-root.  Consider:
    $ cat >grep
    #!/bin/sh
    cp /etc/shadow . && chmod 0666 ./shadow
    ^D
    $ chmod +x ./grep
    $ export PATH=.:$PATH
    $ insecure_script

You could deal with this particular problem by using absolute path
names for everything in the script, and/or by setting $PATH in the
script itself.  But there are other holes of this type, and, since
shells are complicated beasts, it is very hard to be certain that
a script has no exploitable dependencies on matters which are
under the user's control.

-- 
Steven Taschuk                            staschuk at telusplanet.net
"Our analysis begins with two outrageous benchmarks."
  -- "Implementation strategies for continuations", Clinger et al.




From sismex01 at hebmex.com  Wed Jul  2 10:22:49 2003
From: sismex01 at hebmex.com (sismex01 at hebmex.com)
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 09:22:49 -0500 
Subject: Suggesting for overloading the assign operator
Message-ID: <F7DB8D13DB61D511B6FF00B0D0F0623305457EF7@mail.hebmex.com>

> From: bokr at oz.net [mailto:bokr at oz.net] 
> Sent: Martes, 01 de Julio de 2003 09:07 p.m.
>
> [...snippage...]
>
> I'm not sure what that would mean.
> 
> OTOH, a:=b might lead to analogies with a+=b and other a<op>=b
> and then where would we be ;-)
> 
> Let's see...
> 
>     a+:=b => a.__update__(a.__add__(b))
>

And people say Forth is unreadable.  Yeesh.

> 
> ?? ;-)
> 
> Regards,
> Bengt Richter
>

-gustavo

--
Advertencia:La informacion contenida en este mensaje es confidencial y
restringida, por lo tanto esta destinada unicamente para el uso de la
persona arriba indicada, se le notifica que esta prohibida la difusion de
este mensaje. Si ha recibido este mensaje por error, o si hay problemas en
la transmision, favor de comunicarse con el remitente. Gracias.




From paul at boddie.net  Thu Jul 10 07:15:27 2003
From: paul at boddie.net (Paul Boddie)
Date: 10 Jul 2003 04:15:27 -0700
Subject: Python vs PHP
References: <mailman.1057574470.1750.python-list@python.org> <kmolgv4mp12o71ocion7ra0m2s9fcrqjdk@4ax.com> <begc78$rui$1@mawar.singnet.com.sg> <euiogvgmafgaeedg6errde1oaipr8nqpmm@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <23891c90.0307100315.6b901978@posting.google.com>

Afanasiy <abelikov72 at hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<euiogvgmafgaeedg6errde1oaipr8nqpmm at 4ax.com>...
> 
> It would be nice to have a Python equivalent. Unfortunately, for now I
> need to just get started on some things myself rather than convince a
> bunch of other people to do the same. I suppose this could be the best
> way to show so many of the factors I've been listing for months which
> are apparently invisible. I'm sure people agree with me, but they do
> not participate in Usenet, and are very busy being important.

Important or not, the reason for your problems not being addressed is
clearly that most associated with certain open source development
processes: if the developers don't have the same needs as you have,
and if they don't have any incentive to meet those needs, then they
won't do the work if they have other things to be getting on with. I
seem to remember that you wanted support for per-user isolation within
Apache, for example, and I can only imagine that those people
developing Web frameworks just don't have the same hosting limitations
as you have; therefore, the need remains unsatisfied.

> I can also imagine any sort of attempt at comparison, like a benchmark,
> or the infamous language shootout, would be absolutely ridiculed.

You mean like the "Web Framework Shootout"?

  http://colorstudy.com/docs/shootout.html

Or do you share the views of certain other people on this?

  http://twistedmatrix.com/users/radix/musings-on-twisted/msg00000.html

    (Some interesting views on Woven, but a lot of seemingly
     elitist framework bashing, too.)

> I personally consider them fairly useful, but most do not and I am
> wary of spending so much time on something which would eventually, or
> perhaps not so eventually, devolve into personal attacks.

There are and were lots of different comparison charts, documents and
resources. Perhaps you could use those as a starting point - I know I
wouldn't mind if you adapted my old documents on the subject, and I
can imagine that people would welcome contributions to the PythonInfo
Wiki as well.

Paul



From tim at remove_if_not_spam.digitig.co.uk  Wed Jul 16 06:12:15 2003
From: tim at remove_if_not_spam.digitig.co.uk (Tim Rowe)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 11:12:15 +0100
Subject: Python Quiz
References: <84fc4588.0307152253.20858619@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <pt8ahv48tgqh9mqa4pum1lpmtb3j8lnko9@4ax.com>

On 15 Jul 2003 23:53:56 -0700, pythonguy at Hotpop.com (Anand Pillai)
wrote:

>Please try it out if you like quizzing. 
>Let me know if there are any factual errors.

Q7: I think you mean "Modula", not "Module".

Actually, I think that all of Q7 is arguable, as /all/ of the
languages mentioned are promoted by /some/ of the opensource
community, so the answer is pretty much your personal view.



From zathras at thwackety.com  Tue Jul  8 20:39:31 2003
From: zathras at thwackety.com (Michael Sparks)
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 01:39:31 +0100
Subject: Memoizing Generators
In-Reply-To: <pAHOa.43164$JY1.31589@nwrddc01.gnilink.net>
References: <pAHOa.43164$JY1.31589@nwrddc01.gnilink.net>
Message-ID: <200307090139.32257.zathras@thwackety.com>

> Now, the two remaining issues are 1) can we "unify" the generator
> memoization with the "standard" memoization and 2) can we deal with lists
> as well (i.e. my generator was returning tuples ... since I'm scared of
> lists in recursive generator contexts *wink*).  
> One other memoization issues:  what if the args (which will become
> keys) are mutables ... in particular, lists.  I suppose we could just
>  tuple() them up?

How would you deal with the following generator? (On the assumption you want a 
a general purpose memoisation mechanism :)

def retrieveData(source=None, command=True,blocksize=1024):
   if source:
      if not command:
         fh = open(source, "rb",0)
     else:
         fh = os.popen(self.command)
   else:
      fh = sys.stdin
   try:
      try:
         while 1:
            data = fh.read(blocksize)
            if data:
               yield data
            else:
               raise Finality
      except Exception, e:
         if source:
            fh.close()
         raise e
   except Finality:
      pass

If your source is a network connection, or a real user this becomes further 
indeterminate... Not a suggestion to not try, just worth considering :)

The other problem as I see it with your implementation is it expects the 
generator to terminate. This is far from guaranteed - generators are useful 
for dealing with infinite sequences/lists and working with functions that 
might not halt. (eg calculate the best approximation of pi that you can based 
on time available, not based on number of iterations/memory available)

eg
def runGenerator(fn,args,timeAlloted):
   tstart = time.time()
   gen = fn(args).next
   r = gen()
   while 1:
      if time.time()-tstart >=timeAlloted:
         break
      r = gen()
   return r

Consider the possibility that the function is a "next move" in chess and the 
time is set by the first player to "hard" - ie lots of time. The next time a 
player comes along with the time set to "easy", the memoised version won't be 
aware of this in this scenario and returns the hard result (but very 
quickly...), or worse hits stop iteration - which the original version 
wouldn't. Or even worse - occasionally hits the StopIteration and normally 
returns the "hard" result aroung 80-90% of the time.

That said memoising _good_ chess results from certain positions _might_ be 
considered a good thing. It's still an issue though.

Regards,


Michael.





From tjreedy at udel.edu  Fri Jul 25 14:11:28 2003
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 14:11:28 -0400
Subject: Static typing
References: <LvdUa.905$DU.696@fe12.atl2.webusenet.com>
Message-ID: <zaudnTlMlfdM77yiU-KYuQ@comcast.com>

"Michael Muller" <mmuller at enduden.spam.filter.com> wrote in message
news:LvdUa.905$DU.696 at fe12.atl2.webusenet.com...
> Is there currently any plan to introduce static typing in any future
> version of Python?  (I'm not entirely sure that "static typing" is
the right
> term: what I'm talking about is the declaration of types for
variables,
> parameters and function return values).
>
> I know there was a "types SIG" which introduced several proposals,
but it
> expired quite a while ago, and I was wondering whether whether some
> consensus has been reached on the subject or if it has just been
shelved
> indefinitely.

AFAIK, There is no consensus and no concrete plans for Python itself.
However, there are various third party efforts.  Pyrex is, in part,
Python + type declarations for C compilation.  Weave implicitly types
vars as ints or floats. Psyco make declaration unnecessary.

Terry J. Reedy





From isaac at blueapples.org  Thu Jul 24 16:04:15 2003
From: isaac at blueapples.org (Isaac Raway)
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 15:04:15 -0500
Subject: easy way to remove nonprintable chars from string
In-Reply-To: <2b012c5e.0307241138.177e5c8c@posting.google.com>
References: <2b012c5e.0307241138.177e5c8c@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3F203BBF.2060408@blueapples.org>

This seems to work. Not sure how fast it'd be, though.

def stripNoPrint(str):
    results = ""
    for char in str:
        if string.printable.find(char):
            results += char
    return results

Don Hiatt wrote:

>Greetings,
>
>Is there an easy way to remove multiple non-printable
>(e.g. "not strings.printable") from a string? Perhaps
>something like foo.replace(list_of_nonprintables, '')
>if it only existed? :-)
>
>Cheers,
>
>don
>  
>






From pahan at gmx.net  Sun Jul 13 09:26:35 2003
From: pahan at gmx.net (PenguinOfDoom)
Date: 13 Jul 2003 06:26:35 -0700
Subject: Reading packets from a tun device.
References: <mailman.1058041398.21541.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <76590c5.0307121834.612633ca@posting.google.com>

Andre <andre at netvision.com.br> wrote in message news:<mailman.1058041398.21541.python-list at python.org>...
> I'm trying to read packets from a tun device in Python, the code I used 
> for this is the following:
> 
> f = file( '/dev/tun0', 'r+' )
<snip sad story>

You appear to be using the ethertap driver. That is obsolete. You want
the new tuntap driver (module tun).
Also, Twisted (www.twistedmatrix.com) can conveniently handle tuntap
devices. You'll have to get the CVS version. The code is in
twisted.pair.tuntap. This is not terribly tested or stable.
Low-level functionality (opening the tuntap device) is provided by the
Eunuchs project. I can't seem to find a website for it, but the module
is available in Debian as python2.2-eunuchs.
You could poke Tommi Virtanen for more details. He's Tv on
irc.freenode.net



From jorgenhansen at hotmail.com  Tue Jul 22 14:40:16 2003
From: jorgenhansen at hotmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F8rgen_Hansen?=)
Date: 22 Jul 2003 11:40:16 -0700
Subject: Tkinter Listbox looses selection on Tab
Message-ID: <117880a1.0307221040.60a27c0d@posting.google.com>

Hi

I have a problem with a Listbox in Tkinter. When I tab through several
widgets with the tab-key, the listbox looses its selection, even
though it has been selected with .selection_set. The example below
demonstrates this. Can anyone provide me with some help on this?

Regards
Jorgen 

Ps. I'm on a W2K machine with Python 2.2.2

----
from Tkinter import *

root = Tk()
colors = ['Yellow', 'Black', 'White', 'Green']

lb = Listbox(root)
for color in colors:
    lb.insert(END, color)

lb.selection_set(0)
lb.pack()
Entry(root).pack()
root.mainloop()
----



From hannibal1812 at canada.com  Fri Jul  4 21:48:15 2003
From: hannibal1812 at canada.com (hannibal)
Date: Sat, 05 Jul 2003 02:48:15 +0100
Subject: Python in Excel
In-Reply-To: <873chm9w7o.fsf@pobox.com>
References: <mailman.1057271286.23358.python-list@python.org> <1u3Na.12730$U23.8210@nwrdny01.gnilink.net> <873chm9w7o.fsf@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <be5amo$2phm$1@adenine.netfront.net>

You can use Microsoft Script Control. If you have the win32 extensions 
of python, you can use python in place of vb in this control

-open the VBA script editor - In menus/Tools/References add Microsoft 
Script Control
-Make a new module and declare a new MsScriptControl.ScriptControl
	Global sc as new MsScriptControl.ScriptControl
-Initialize the language attibute with python - Note that you and users 
of your document must have python and its win32 extensions installed. 
Activestate python distribustion include it.
You can put
	sc.language="python"
in the routine Workbook_Open()

Now you can import python modules using ExecuteStatement method of the 
control in vba and have results from python functions with eval method. 
One interesting thing is that you can pass an object to the control with 
AddObject method and have python manipulate it. And so on..



John J. Lee a ?crit :
> "Tom Locke" <tom at liveDELETE-MElogix.com> writes:
> 
> 
>>>>Can I write Excel macros/scripts using Python?
>>>>
>>>>I mean to actually put Python into an Excel document, not using
>>>>Python to access data, for example, from some Excel document.
>>
>>These days you can script office with any .NET language, and that includes
>>Python:
> 
> [...]
> 
> Or use good old COM.  There's an example of controlling Excel (the
> version from Office 2000) in the Python for Windows Extensions (aka
> win32all) COM test code.  IIRC, it'll be somewhere like
> C:\Python\win32com\tests\.
> 
> 
> John

---
Posted via news://freenews.netfront.net
Complaints to news at netfront.net



From grante at visi.com  Mon Jul  7 13:31:29 2003
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 07 Jul 2003 17:31:29 GMT
Subject: anything new on the ternary operator?
References: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCKEIAENAB.tim.one@comcast.net> <mailman.1057595352.18354.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3f09ae71$0$638$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>

In article <mailman.1057595352.18354.python-list at python.org>, John Hunter wrote:
>>>>>> "Tim" == Tim Peters <tim.one at comcast.net> writes:
> 
>    Tim> There were many creative interpretations of the vote counts,
>    Tim> but none of them showed the consensus Guido said at the start
>    Tim> would be needed for adoption.
> 
> Perhaps there is a lesson for the next time a vote count comes around.
> Although there wasn't a consensus on the syntactical form of a ternary
> operator, there may be a consensus for the existence of one.  This
> suggests a runoff step is needed

Holy cow, didn't you notice the endless threads on voting
methods? There were two votes, both of which had various
"instant runoff" sort of features.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  Catsup and Mustard
                                  at               all over the place! It's
                               visi.com            the Human Hamburger!



From ____indru_june at yahoo.com____  Wed Jul  9 04:22:16 2003
From: ____indru_june at yahoo.com____ (indru)
Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 08:22:16 +0000
Subject: Application Development in Python
Message-ID: <3089454.1057738936@dbforums.com>

Hi all,
I am new to Python programming. I am from C,C++,Perl background. I am
quite convinced by the possibilities python as a very high level
language is offering. I am seriously thinking of using python in my
project which is to create a accounting software. First thing came to my
mind was C++ but the time required could be enormous and my people are
not ready to wait that long. The project is a medium sized one but
bigger than something like gnucash and KMyMoney2. Do any body have
experience with application development using python and their
experiences ?.   Also please advice me whether Python can be used for
such purposes.
Thanks in advance
Indru

--
Posted via http://dbforums.com



From ben at dadsetan.com  Thu Jul 10 02:56:14 2003
From: ben at dadsetan.com (Behrang Dadsetan)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 08:56:14 +0200
Subject: Deleting specific characters from a string
In-Reply-To: <bei9c2$gvs$0@216.39.172.122>
References: <begfb3$7j6$1@online.de> <3F0C851C.4000500@livinglogic.de> <3F0C8AC3.5010304@dadsetan.com> <bei9c2$gvs$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <bej2pe$hkf$2@online.de>

Bengt Richter wrote:
> On Wed, 09 Jul 2003 23:36:03 +0200, Behrang Dadsetan <ben at dadsetan.com> wrote:
> ====< removechars.py >========================================================
> def removeChars(s, remove=''):
>     return s.translate(
>         '\x00\x01\x02\x03\x04\x05\x06\x07\x08\t\n\x0b\x0c\r\x0e\x0f'
>         '\x10\x11\x12\x13\x14\x15\x16\x17\x18\x19\x1a\x1b\x1c\x1d\x1e\x1f'
>         ' !"#$%&\'()*+,-./'
>         '0123456789:;<=>?'
>         '@ABCDEFGHIJKLMNO'
>         'PQRSTUVWXYZ[\\]^_'
>         '`abcdefghijklmno'
>         'pqrstuvwxyz{|}~\x7f'
>         '\x80\x81\x82\x83\x84\x85\x86\x87\x88\x89\x8a\x8b\x8c\x8d\x8e\x8f'
>         '\x90\x91\x92\x93\x94\x95\x96\x97\x98\x99\x9a\x9b\x9c\x9d\x9e\x9f'
>         '\xa0\xa1\xa2\xa3\xa4\xa5\xa6\xa7\xa8\xa9\xaa\xab\xac\xad\xae\xaf'
>         '\xb0\xb1\xb2\xb3\xb4\xb5\xb6\xb7\xb8\xb9\xba\xbb\xbc\xbd\xbe\xbf'
>         '\xc0\xc1\xc2\xc3\xc4\xc5\xc6\xc7\xc8\xc9\xca\xcb\xcc\xcd\xce\xcf'
>         '\xd0\xd1\xd2\xd3\xd4\xd5\xd6\xd7\xd8\xd9\xda\xdb\xdc\xdd\xde\xdf'
>         '\xe0\xe1\xe2\xe3\xe4\xe5\xe6\xe7\xe8\xe9\xea\xeb\xec\xed\xee\xef'
>         '\xf0\xf1\xf2\xf3\xf4\xf5\xf6\xf7\xf8\xf9\xfa\xfb\xfc\xfd\xfe\xff'
>         , remove)
<snip>
It looks to me like serious overkill. If I would put in a method like 
that somewhere in my code, my colleagues would never talk to me again ;)

Ben.




From pxtl at hotmail.com  Wed Jul 30 11:25:15 2003
From: pxtl at hotmail.com (martin z)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 15:25:15 GMT
Subject: Controlling what built-in modules Python compiles with?
Message-ID: <vrRVa.21606$hOa.6904@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>

I'm having a lot of trouble figuring out the details of controlling Python
compiling.  I can compile and embed just fine, but I want some finer
granularity on what gets compiled into Python.  I can find little to no
documentation of the compiler flags besides the ones essential to operating
system compatibility.

How does one choose what built-in modules are compiled into Python?  I ask
because newer versions are accumulating more and more unneeded features for
my embedded app.  For example, it seems unnecessary bloat to compile with
zipimport if all the modules I plan to use are being loaded in directly by
the embedding app.





From fw at deneb.enyo.de  Thu Jul 24 16:00:22 2003
From: fw at deneb.enyo.de (Florian Weimer)
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 22:00:22 +0200
Subject: Regex: Limiting Scope without capturing results
References: <173ef463.0307240355.cf896bb@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <87oezjsnjd.fsf@deneb.enyo.de>

megalith at btinternet.com (Gordon Chapman) writes:

> Or a way of telling them to limit the scope of the match without
> capturing the result ?

You are looking for (?:foo|bar).



From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Tue Jul 22 23:58:16 2003
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 22 Jul 2003 23:58:16 -0400
Subject: Python scripting with Paint Shop Pro 8.0
References: <kl3lhvgh5iillo5g9jvff92qkc8i2022nm@4ax.com> <rajnhv0g0d21okj8uhebsakehgm9i6slvh@4ax.com> <mailman.1058790515.18332.python-list@python.org> <h65ohvs749mp0gctgve7t0qmojhrn642br@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <bfl14o$bhe$1@panix3.panix.com>

In article <h65ohvs749mp0gctgve7t0qmojhrn642br at 4ax.com>,
Marc Wilson  <marc at cleopatra.co.uk> wrote:
>
>Groovy.  I may become a Python convert.  *sigh*  I've not finished learning
>perl yet, and now I've got a new shiny toy. :)

<smirk>
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

This is Python.  We don't care much about theory, except where it intersects 
with useful practice.  --Aahz



From perrego at mail.buffnet.net  Thu Jul 17 00:24:38 2003
From: perrego at mail.buffnet.net (Mark Perrego)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 00:24:38 EDT
Subject: anything like C++ references?
Message-ID: <200307170424.h6H4Os3R002263@buffnet4.buffnet.net>

I've been trying to follow this thread, mainly to make sure that how I 
think python works is how it actually does work.  I was confused by 
(paraphrasing) "in math, variables are bound to values, and values 
don't change, and python doesn't work that way."  I was saying to 
myself, "yes it does."  And now I think I know why:

>Stephen Horne wrote:
>If I type...
>
> >>> a = [1, 2, 3]
> >>> b = a
>
>Then in my mind, the point is that both variables get bound to the
>value '[1, 2, 3]'.

I don't believe this is the case.  At least not for your concepts of 
"variable", "bound" and "value."  To say it in (what I think are) your 
definitions of those terms...

>>> a = [1, 2, 3]

At this point, a is bound to a value which is a reference that refers 
to the list '[1, 2, 3]'.
The list referred to by the value bound to a contains 3 references, 
which refer to the integers 1, 2 and 3.

>>> b = a

At this point, b is bound to a value which is another reference to the 
same list.  

>If I now type...
>
>>>> b[2] = 4
>
>Then the variable b should now be bound to the value '[1, 2, 4]'. 

Why?  You didn't change the binding of b.  You changed the binding of 
the third spot in the list referred to by b.  Or to be more explicit 
"... referred to by the value bound by b".

>That is the whole point of what I've done. However, the fact that it 
was
>achieved by modifying a part of an object is an implementation detail.

But in reality, modifying an object is what you told python to do.  You 
asked to modify the list to throw away the previous reference it was 
holding in the third spot and to put another one in its place.

>It should not affect the *value* bound to the variable a. In other

It doesn't affect the value bound to the variable a.  The variable a is 
still bound to the same value.  That value is a reference to a 
particular list.  That list was modified.

>words, a new object should be created at that point - a copy of the
>original - which would then be modified. That way, the mathematical
>concept of variables being bound to values would be respected.

A copy of the original reference to the integer 3 is created, and 
modified to refer to the integer 4, then bound to the third spot in the 
list, replacing the original.  But this would violate the "values are 
immutable" concept so how about the new reference refers to the integer 
4 when it is created.  I don't know which is correct, and I don't know 
how you could tell.

Others, I believe, have used the term "bound" to mean what I am calling 
"referred to" which may be part of my confusion as I tried to pick 
which meaing of "bound" to take.  

Take all this with a grain of salt.  Its me trying to explain how I 
think python works in what I think are your terms.  And then there are 
the problems between my brain and my fingers.  Am I missing your point?  
I know you don't _like_ that python binds variables to values that are 
references, but do I have straight what you mean by variable, bound and 
value?

Thanks,
 - Mark




From madsurfer2000 at hotmail.com  Sun Jul 20 04:27:24 2003
From: madsurfer2000 at hotmail.com (-)
Date: 20 Jul 2003 01:27:24 -0700
Subject: Strings and Unicode
Message-ID: <fef0a228.0307200027.2ef962e9@posting.google.com>

I have a function that takes a string as an input parameter. This
function then urlencodes the string and sends it to a server with
telnetlib.Telnet

The problem is that the string gets converted into what seems to be
Unicode. How can I check to see if the input-string is Unicode and
convert it to a different character set (in this case ISO-Latin1).



From paulpaterson at users.sourceforge.net  Sat Jul 12 19:57:39 2003
From: paulpaterson at users.sourceforge.net (Paul Paterson)
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 23:57:39 GMT
Subject: ANN: vb2py-0.1 released
Message-ID: <Tf1Qa.78062$TJ.4105376@twister.austin.rr.com>

Version 0.1 of vb2py has been released.

What is vb2py?
==============

vb2py is a toolkit to aid in the conversion of Visual Basic projects to 
Python (using PythonCard). The conversion will eventually include both 
forms and code (modules and classes). Version 0.1 is mainly a form 
layout converter to PythonCard with a very simplistic code translation. 
The project roadmap (http://vb2py.sourceforge.net/roadmap.htm) shows the 
project's development timeline.

Converting VB to Python turns your VB projects into cross platform 
developments and allows full access to all Python's extensive library of 
modules.


Getting the Software
====================

* The main website: http://vb2py.sourceforge.net
* Download this version: http://vb2py.sourceforge.net/downloads.htm
* Documentation: http://vb2py.sourceforge.net/documentation.htm


Requirements
============

* Python 2.1 or greater
* PythonCard
* simpleparse (not used in the 0.1 code but required to use the 
experimental VB parser)
* Visual Basic is *not* required (although it would help if you had some 
VB code ...)


Licence
=======

vb2py is released under the BSD licence.


Release History
===============

This is the first public release from the project.


Contributors Welcome
====================

In a project like this one there are many ways people can contribute. 
Coding, testing, advice, etc are all valuable and much appreciated.


----

Paul Paterson
(paulpaterson at users.sourceforge.net)

vb2py :: A Visual Basic to Python Conversion Toolkit
http://vb2py.sourceforge.net




From ianb at colorstudy.com  Wed Jul 30 12:58:00 2003
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: 30 Jul 2003 11:58:00 -0500
Subject: Web tool kit : pro - cons ?
In-Reply-To: <F479FF16-C2A6-11D7-AFA4-000A2782F316@euc.cx>
References: <F479FF16-C2A6-11D7-AFA4-000A2782F316@euc.cx>
Message-ID: <1059584280.12753.159.camel@lothlorien>

On Wed, 2003-07-30 at 11:00, Jeffrey P Shell wrote:
> >> Other tools try the O-R
> >> mapping route for abstraction with varying degrees of success.
> >> SkunkWeb has PyDO, Webware has one (I can't remember its name right
> >> now).  Zope's model is nice because it's not intrinsic to Zope that
> >> you use SQL - it's just a nice model to plug into if you need it, when
> >> you need it.  I don't know how other toolkits stack up here.  Some may
> >> just say "go find a Python adapter that works for you and do what you
> >> want with it", which seems to be as good of a way to go as any.
> >
> > PyDO and MiddleKit (Webware's) are both independent of their frameworks
> > (it's kind of unfortunate that they appear to be tied, though), as are
> > the other ORMs (like my SQLObject).  All three provide something
> > approximating business objects built around database rows.
> 
> They all put the model too close to the Python code for my personal 
> comfort.  Sometimes that's good.  Other times, not so much.
> 
> A couple of more interesting systems are Modeling ( 
> http://modeling.sf.net/ ) and Ape ( 
> http://hathaway.freezope.org/Software/Ape ).

I don't really see the advantage of Modeling -- it seems terribly
verbose to me, though I suppose that's because of its origins in
Objective C.  I don't see any advantage to separating the mapping from
the class -- it's all code, it's all written by the same people, and if
you need separate people to handle the pieces and you can't let them
both work with the same class, either you don't have enough
communication between people or you are making the whole thing a lot
more difficult than it should be.  Modeling feels too formal to me --
more like Java than Python.  A Python ORM doesn't have to be hard.

APE seems like the other side of formal, where it tries too hard to
seamlessly support every Python object and in the process is just
another object database (ala ZODB) that happens to be able to use a
relational database as a backend.

A relational database cannot hold arbitrary Python objects unless you
want to ruin everything that's good about a relational database.  What
notions of inheritance that can be implemented have significantly
different semantics than Python inheritance (and composition is usually
better than inheritance anyway, and that is well supported by relational
databases).  Attributes aren't columns, Python types aren't database
types.  Relations are a different environment all around.  I personally
can't see the use case where you'll want to radically change storage
mechanisms while leaving a business class alone.  Yes, you may want to
radically change the storage -- but it only matters that the *interface*
to that class can stay the same, not that the entire class
implementation is storage-neutral.  That it requires some effort and
thought to move from an RDBMS to a flat file (for instance) is not a big
problem in my mind.  Moving from, say, Postgres to MySQL without effort
*is* nice, and achievable without having separate mapping objects.  I
think if APE is going to be relational, it has to be more like an ORM.

And, for what it's worth, SQLObject does have a DBM-based backend (which
is largely equivalent to a flat file backend), that is fully functional,
including selects and joins.  It's not that efficient -- but it could
be.  But having written that storage mechanism, I still think it's
little more than a parlor trick, a clever abstraction that appeals to a
programmer but offers little real benefit.  The DBM backend is just an
embedded relational database, and SQLite is a much better embedded
relational database, so you might as well use that.  If it shows
anything, it is that the queries that SQLObject uses are portable beyond
SQL, should you ever need to do that.

  Ian






From cpl.19.ghum at spamgourmet.com  Thu Jul 17 13:39:26 2003
From: cpl.19.ghum at spamgourmet.com (Harald Massa)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 19:39:26 +0200
Subject: html tags and webpages
References: <cdac0350.0307170711.43103d33@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <Xns93BBC83C33CAFcpl19ghumspamgourmet@62.153.159.134>

gret,

google for dive into python.

Exactly your job is described there in great detail, with examples.

Best wishes,

harald



From skip at pobox.com  Thu Jul 31 09:06:29 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 08:06:29 -0500
Subject: time, calendar, datetime, etc
In-Reply-To: <bg9utn$59g$1@news7.svr.pol.co.uk>
References: <153fa67.0307300326.45a29380@posting.google.com>
        <mailman.1059593025.652.python-list@python.org>
        <bg9utn$59g$1@news7.svr.pol.co.uk>
Message-ID: <16169.5205.337041.191993@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    >> Maybe.  Perhaps you would like to write a PEP?

    Ben> I would think that is best left up to those who know what they're
    Ben> doing... I'm just a newbie who's found date and time handling in
    Ben> Python to be confusing, and thought I'd mention it. (And I am the
    Ben> original poster, btw.)  If nobody else agrees, maybe it's not
    Ben> really a problem.

Yeah, but you spoke up. ;-) There are probably lots of people willing to
throw stones at^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hcomment on your work, and since
this would largely be a reorganization of existing modules, there wouldn't
be all that much Python knowledge required (except that backwards
compatibility is a requirement for 2.4).  In any case, if you have concrete
ideas about how the three should be merged into two, a PEP's the best place
to document it.  Your ideas will largely be lost if the python-list archive
is the only place they are recorded.

    Ben> Well, one could say that its very existence makes it special.
    Ben> Technically asctime() is redundant as you can achieve the same
    Ben> effect with time.strftime().

I believe asctime() predates strftime() as a C library function by quite a
bit.

    Ben> Yet it's in the library. Since time.asctime() exists as a special
    Ben> case, we're assuming that the use of that particular string format
    Ben> has some intrinsic merit. In particular, a lot of programs written
    Ben> in C may use it for logfiles. Therefore it makes sense (to me) to
    Ben> implement the inverse ("timeasc"?).

I couldn't pick an asctime()-generated date out of a lineup.  For most
logging I think it makes sense to use sortable numeric dates (ISO-8601).
Besides sortability, they are indifferent to language and unambiguous.
There are many little variations in "human readable" dates, even those which
are so-called standards.  Someone always gets things "wrong".  Quick, what's
the format of an RFC-822 date?  Is it the same as an RFC-2822 date?  What
about RFC-1036?  RFC-850?

Not that I have any claim to have been complaining loud and clear about this
problem back in 1982 and 1983 when these RFC were written (or earlier, when
the systems they codified were first developed), but I don't think there's
any use in further propagating arcane date formats.

Skip





From frobozz_electric at hotmail.com  Wed Jul  2 11:21:14 2003
From: frobozz_electric at hotmail.com (Sean Ross)
Date: 2 Jul 2003 15:21:14 GMT
Subject: Newbie advice for string fromatting
References: <f9b7c11d.0307020642.7231cd82@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bdut9a$inj$1@driftwood.ccs.carleton.ca>

I don't know whether this is efficient, but its an example of your code in a
form that actually works:

words = {"adverb":None, "noun":None, "verb":None, "tool":None}
keyorder = ["adverb", "noun", "verb", "tool"]   # modify dictionary in this
order
for word in keyorder:
       print "\nEnter a(n)", word, ": ",
       words[word] = raw_input()
print "\nThe %(adverb)s %(noun)s %(verb)s with a %(tool)s." % words


"gt" <gtewalt at earthlink.net> wrote in message
> libs = ["adverb", "noun", "verb", "tool"]
> words = {a:j, n:j, v:j, t:j}

For the code above to work as-is, all of a, n, v, t, and j would have to be
variables (which is not the case). In my version, I've used your libs words
as keys to the dictionary, and I've given each dictionary item a value of
None to start with. Also, since dictionaries do not maintain items in the
order that they are added, and because you appear to want to ask for words
in a particular order, I've used the list 'keyorder'. If order was
unimportant, you could get rid of keyorder altogether and just use:

...
for word in words:
    ...
...

But then you get things like "Enter a(n) tool: ", "Enter a(n) noun: ",
etc...

[snip]
> print "The %s %s %s with a %s." % (a, n, v, t)

Instead of using the "string" % tuple, you can also use "string with
keywords" % dict,
which allows you to re-use your 'words' dictionary (no need to create
variables a, n, v, t).

HTH
Sean





From bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au  Thu Jul 17 22:03:23 2003
From: bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au (Ben Finney)
Date: 18 Jul 2003 11:53:23 +0950
Subject: A challenge to the ASCII proponents.
References: <mailman.1058278343.23104.python-list@python.org> <bf167a$pvt$1@panix2.panix.com> <ufzl7rdno.fsf@online.no> <3F142A58.80426AA4@hotmail.com> <2259b0e2.0307161620.4a9353f1@posting.google.com> <Xns93BB246FDDBCFJanC@213.118.75.80> <3F168011.3AEB3EFC@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <slrnbhe4v0.3i2.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>

On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 11:53:05 +0100, Alan Kennedy wrote:
> JanC wrote:
>> The verb "gignooskoo" (trying to write it with Latin letters ;)
> Why limit yourself to that nasty little us-ascii alphabet? >;-)

Because it will display reliably on any computer.

> Here it is in a format where almost everybody will be able to see the
> original greek verb on their screen.
> [instructions to cut and paste to a file, then open in a limited range
> of programs, on computers possessing the appropriate font]
> 
> So, the challenge to the ASCII proponents is: put the greek word
> "gignooskoo" on everybody's screen, originating from a usenet message,
> in the original greek, where "oo" -> greek letter omega.

Challenge accepted:

Open any drawing program.  Draw, in order from left to right, the Greek
characters gamma, ipsilon, gamma, nu, omega, sigma, kappa, omega.

Done.  The desired word now appears on the screen.

Oh, what's that -- you say that's cheating because the user has to use
particular programs?  Perform manual steps?  Have some existing
knowledge about the process?  That the process may fail for any of these
reasons?

Those are attributes of the "simple" process of manually manipulating
XML content you gave.

Not every computer is capable of automatically displaying Greek
characters.  Even for those which can, there's not yet a universal way
to instruct them to do so.  Hence, it is not possible to have any
computer automatically display a word with Greek characters.

But you already knew that, so why the silly challenge?

-- 
 \          "Behind every successful man is a woman, behind her is his |
  `\                                           wife."  -- Groucho Marx |
_o__)                                                                  |
http://bignose.squidly.org/ 9CFE12B0 791A4267 887F520C B7AC2E51 BD41714B



From Kyler at news.Lairds.org  Thu Jul 31 20:18:36 2003
From: Kyler at news.Lairds.org (Kyler Laird)
Date: Fri, 01 Aug 2003 00:18:36 GMT
Subject: Secure FTP in Python?
References: <bgbs1q$6pt$1@ns.felk.cvut.cz>
Message-ID: <jsnov-3bk.ln1@jowls.lairds.org>

"d z e k y l" <no at nospam.no> writes:

>Or is there some other
>(noncomplicated) way how secure uploading can be implemented in Python?

About anything is less needlessly complicated than FTP. 
SSH is often the obvious choice, but WebDAV can also
run over SSL.

--kyler



From Kepes.Krisztian at peto.hu  Thu Jul  3 03:35:50 2003
From: Kepes.Krisztian at peto.hu (Krisztian Kepes)
Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 09:35:50 +0200
Subject: Py + CGI or other ?
Message-ID: <sf03fc2a.010@testmail.peto.hu>

Hi !

I want to substitute/replace my php site to python, 'cause 
I fall in love with Python, and not want to continue the work with php.

A question:
- how to I make the change ?
So, I  take an interest in Python+Web. Where I starting this learning ?

1. 
 I use php used in module, not in cgi ?
 The python can load to apache in module ?

2.
 Or I must create an CGI library ?

3.
 The BaseHTTPServer is good for starting an cgi development ?

4.
 Can the python handle the session of web browsers ?

5.
 Can the python access other db servers (not mysql) ?

Thx:
 KK






From max at alcyone.com  Sat Jul  5 02:01:25 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 23:01:25 -0700
Subject: print attitude
References: <mailman.1057355899.31256.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3F0669B5.679FB505@alcyone.com>

"Batista, Facundo" wrote:

> Is this OK?
> 
> Why this different behaviour?

It's str vs. repr, and unfortunately it generates no end of confusion.

Let's make a simple object so we can clearly see the difference:

>>> class Display:
...  def __str__(self): return '(str)' 
...  def __repr__(self): return '(repr)'
... 
>>> d = Display()
>>> str(d)
'(str)'
>>> repr(d)
'(repr)'

So whether the str or repr of the object is called, we can tell the
difference.  Now, consider:

>>> print d
(str)
>>> d
(repr)
>>> [d]
[(repr)]
>>> print [d]
[(repr)]

Printing an object prints its str, but simply specifying it as the value
of an expression in the interactive interpreter prints the repr.  What
you're seeing is that both the str _and_ the repr of builtin container
types print the _repr_ of their elements.  I consider this something of
a wart, but the rationalization is that it might be confusing if the str
were used when using (say) list.__str__ since it might contain spaces or
commas itself.

>>> [' ', 'a, b', 'c', ' ']
[' ', 'a, b', 'c', ' ']

If that were the str of the elements, it might be confusing:

>>> '[%s]' % ', '.join(map(str, [' ', 'a, b', 'c', ' ']))
'[ , a, b, c,  ]'

I see the reasoning, but I'm not sure the benefit of the decision
outweighs the confusion it constantly calls.  (This, along with standard
floating point equality questions, are probably the most frequently
asked questions about Python.)

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ But since when can wounded eyes see / If we weren't who we were
\__/  Joi



From paul.m at speakeasy.net  Sat Jul 26 17:28:41 2003
From: paul.m at speakeasy.net (Paul M)
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 17:28:41 -0400
Subject: Pythoness
In-Reply-To: <3rnav-q64.ln1@beastie.ix.netcom.com>
References: <3f2115e6$1@news.012.net.il> <3rnav-q64.ln1@beastie.ix.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <3F22F289.9080906@speakeasy.net>

Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
> Avner Ben fed this fish to the penguins on Friday 25 July 2003 05:34 am:
> 
> 
>>The following is from the "A Word A Day" newsletter
>>(http://www.wordsmith.org/awad/subscribe.html) of  22 July 2003. I
>>thought you'd find it amusing...
>>
>>
>>>pythoness (PIE-thuh-nis) noun
>>>
>>>  1. A woman with the power of divination.
>>>
>>>  2. The priestess of Apollo at Delphi in Greek mythology.
>>>
> 
>         Hmmm, I'd always seen the priestess referred to as "the Pythia" (or 
> something similar).
> 


For more on Pythia and Delphi see a recent Scientific American article:

http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?articleID=0009BD34-398C-1F0A-97AE80A84189EEDF&pageNumber=1&catID=2


If that URL get's munged, just go the the Scientific American homepage 
and search on "Delphi"

--Paul




From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Thu Jul 10 15:54:14 2003
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 10 Jul 2003 15:54:14 -0400
Subject: Embedding Python, threading and scalability
References: <ec23a1ae.0307081354.5fc06cb@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bekg96$mi$1@panix2.panix.com>

In article <ec23a1ae.0307081354.5fc06cb at posting.google.com>,
Wenning Qiu <wenning_qiu at csgsystems.com> wrote:
>
>My project will be running on an SMP box and requires scalability.
>However, my test shows that Python threading has very poor performance
>in terms of  scaling. In fact it doesn't scale at all.

That's true for pure Python code.

>The fundamental reason for lacking scalability is that Python uses a
>global interpreter lock for thread safety. That global lock must be
>held by a thread before it can safely access Python objects.

Correct.  The problem is that the GIL makes Python more efficient in
many ways, because there's no need for fine-grained locking.  You're
using Python inside-out for this purpose -- the way to scale Python in a
threaded environment is to call out to a C extension that releases the
GIL.

>Has anyone on this list run into the same problem that I have, or does
>anyone know of any plan of totally insulating multiple embedded Python
>interpreters?

Sure!  Use multiple processes.

Other people have mentioned Perl and Tcl in this thread.  I wonder how
they deal with the problem of loading DLLs with static data.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"Not everything in life has a clue in front of it...."  --JMS



From galen at grex_nospam_.org  Tue Jul  8 17:08:43 2003
From: galen at grex_nospam_.org (trewornan)
Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 22:08:43 +0100
Subject: mx odbc
References: <3f0accb5$0$13191$edfadb0f@dread15.news.tele.dk> <mailman.1057680332.32247.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2003.07.08.21.08.42.395562@grex_nospam_.org>

On Tue, 08 Jul 2003 18:04:11 +0200, M.-A. Lemburg wrote:

> Having a maintained and actively supported ODBC interface which
> works on all major platforms, not just Windows ?!

Agreed that this must be a lot of work but most of us use open source
software for a reason. Certainly the licensing of mxODBC was the main
reason I choose to use the mySQL module directly instead.

Trewornan



From tim.one at comcast.net  Fri Jul 11 22:47:21 2003
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 22:47:21 -0400
Subject: The "intellectual property" misnomer
In-Reply-To: <slrnbguf7g.q1.bignose-hates-spam@rose.localdomain.fake>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCEEOIENAB.tim.one@comcast.net>

[Guido]
>> The PSF holds the intellectual property rights for Python

[Ben Finney]
> Ugh.  Please don't propagate this ridiculous, meaningless term.  It's
> used to refer to a wide range of greatly disparate legal concepts; to
> use it as a single term implies that there's some unifying
> "intellectual property" principle joining them together, which is a
> falsehood.

Guido isn't writing a treatise on the law, he's briefly explaining (part of)
what the PSF does.  I doubt many are confused by what he said, and you
proved you're not:

> If the PSF holds the copyright to Python, please say that.
>
> If the PSF holds patents which cover Python, please say that.
>
> If the PSF owns the trademark for Python, please say that.
>
> If the PSF has trade secrets in Python, please say that.

So you somehow managed to divine Guido's intent from that "ridiculous,
meaningless term" <0.5 wink> -- part of the PSF's business is indeed dealing
with all legalities affecting the use of Python.  I don't think pedantic
verbosity makes it any clearer, but may mislead due to omission.

> But please *don't* muddy the water by saying the PSF holds "the
> intellectual property rights" for Python.  That says nothing useful --
> it doesn't help determine which of the above fields of law are
> applicable -- and only promotes the idea that all these different
> fields of law are part of a whole, which they are definitely not.

A goole search just now got close to 30,000 hits on "IP law", with a
striking similarity of meaning across the dozen I browsed.  The idea that
what Guido meant by the above is obscure defies common sense, and I know for
a fact that he didn't author at least 25,000 of those web pages <wink>.





From srijit at yahoo.com  Fri Jul 11 06:52:46 2003
From: srijit at yahoo.com (srijit at yahoo.com)
Date: 11 Jul 2003 03:52:46 -0700
Subject: Python Documentation
Message-ID: <221d8dbe.0307110252.7d44b63a@posting.google.com>

Hello,
I do not see any discussion of new style classes in tutorial section
of Python 2.3b1 core documentation. I hope that I have not missed any
section.
Though there are many separate documents on this topic, I thought that
it was good idea to have them all included in core documentation.
Is there any plan to improve the tutorial section fo Python core
documentation?
Otherwise Python documentation is quite good. 

Regards,
Srijit



From vze4rx4y at verizon.net  Tue Jul 15 03:09:01 2003
From: vze4rx4y at verizon.net (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 07:09:01 GMT
Subject: Mix lambda and list comprehension?
References: <6f5b3f88.0307142302.1a1531f3@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <hMNQa.1134$I4.740@nwrdny01.gnilink.net>

Try this:

>>> [lambda x, y=y:x+y for y in range(10)][4](2)
6


It is important to bind y in a closure at the time
the lambda is defined.  Otherwise, y remains unbound
until you invoke the function call.  At that time, the most
recent value of y is the last value in the range loop (namely, 9).


Raymond Hettinger



"Peter Barth" <peter.barth at t-online.de> wrote in message
news:6f5b3f88.0307142302.1a1531f3 at posting.google.com...
> Hi,
> trying to mix lambda expresions and list comprehension
> doesn't seem to work.
> ---
> >>> [lambda x:x+y for y in range(10)][9](2)
> 11
> >>> [lambda x:x+y for y in range(10)][4](2)
> 11
> ---
> I expected the second expression to return 6.
> What did I do wrong? Any hints?
> Thanks
> - Peter





From lorenb2 at bezeqint.net  Sun Jul 27 22:10:01 2003
From: lorenb2 at bezeqint.net (Bill Loren)
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 04:10:01 +0200
Subject: Debugging Python ?
Message-ID: <008a01c354ad$5a52d840$6400a8c0@EVOD31>

Hi'ya ppl,

I'd be happy to hear your techniques to debug python programs.
Is there any interactive debugging environment by any chance ?

thanks in advance,
B






From adechert at earthlink.net  Sun Jul 20 22:42:18 2003
From: adechert at earthlink.net (Alan Dechert)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 02:42:18 GMT
Subject: Possible use of Python for a voting machine demo project -- your feedback requested
References: <P9DSa.111436$Io.9552373@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <bff6jb$e8goe$1@ID-67890.news.uni-berlin.de> <7xk7acai97.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <PtHSa.14085$Mc.1037736@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <7x8yqstzf3.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <eqISa.14151$Mc.1044750@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>

"Paul Rubin" <http://phr.cx at NOSPAM.invalid> wrote in message
news:7x8yqstzf3.fsf at ruckus.brouhaha.com...
> "Alan Dechert" <adechert at earthlink.net> writes:
> > You make a lot of good points.  As I understand it, Canada administers
> > national, province, and local elections separately.  They happen at
> > different times and are conducted by different entities.  The U.S. is
one of
> > very few where you see federal, state, and local contests on the same
> > ballot.
>
> The US does not have federal contests.  All elections for federal
> office are actually state contests.  That includes Presidential
> elections, which are a bunch of state contests for slates of electors
> from the individual states.  That all the elections are state contests
> and not federal ones is one of the reasons it's hard to impose uniform
> national standards on how the elections are run.
>
I think you have a point but there is a symantics problem.

It's true that the U.S. Constitution gives most (almost all) of the
authority for conducting elections to the states.  You're correct to say
that this makes the establishment of "uniform national standards" highly
problematic.  Nonetheless, we plan to address this.  This is a *very*
involved subject.  Have a look at our proposed Election Rules Database

http://home.earthlink.net/~adechert/ucvs-proposal.rtf

Some other details can be found here:

http://home.earthlink.net/~adechert/votingstudydialog.txt

Then there's the concept of "Regulatory Capture."  We intend to drive the
discussion of how to resolve contradictions in the current voting system.

However, to say that "The US does not have federal contests" leaves me
nonplussed.  Federal elections involve the election of federal officials --
e.g., Congress, President, Vice President.  We have the Federal Election
Commission, which looks like it's being replaced by a host of commissions.
You'll find the phrase "federal election" quite a few times on this page:

http://www.fec.gov/hava/eac.htm

--Alan Dechert





From delphiro at zonnet.nl  Thu Jul  3 10:27:39 2003
From: delphiro at zonnet.nl (delphiro)
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 16:27:39 +0200
Subject: Python is a gem, you need to keep pushing it ....
In-Reply-To: <0gVMa.126$a%1.9289@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au>
References: <0gVMa.126$a%1.9289@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au>
Message-ID: <20030703162739.6e4e4023.delphiro@zonnet.nl>

Same story here,

My company primarily uses Delphi (Object Pascal) which is actualy a nice development language / IDE but with linux as a rising star and Kylix as a nasty and not-so-friendly-and-platform-indepandent Delphi-clone we have decided to use Python for a number of small projects. As a python addict I really hope this works out! No offence, but I'd rather be using Emacs and Python than the Delphi IDE. It is so much more fun and it runs on Linux *and* Windows (ok and more.. but those are our target OS'es).

We now have a team of 4 Python addicts trying to convince our bosses and the 30+ Delphi developers. I realy hope this works out :-)

Regards,
Rob

-- 
[-------------delphiro-------------]
[-- http://pyciv.sourceforge.net --]
[----------------------------------]




From cookedm+news at physics.mcmaster.ca  Thu Jul  3 21:44:27 2003
From: cookedm+news at physics.mcmaster.ca (David M. Cooke)
Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 21:44:27 -0400
Subject: Auto free Buffer objects in C API?
References: <pan.2003.07.03.20.20.31.884888.29833@bmsi.com>
Message-ID: <qnkadbvrrpg.fsf@arbutus.physics.mcmaster.ca>

At some point, "Stuart D. Gathman" <stuart at bmsi.com> wrote:

> I have a Python C module (dspam.c - http://bmsi.com/python/milter.html).
> It needs to return some large buffers allocated by the library I am
> wrapping.  The buffers must be freed by the caller when finished.  At
> present, I do the following to copy, then free the buffer:
>
> PyObject *
> toBuffer(char *buf;int len) {
>   PyObject *sig = PyBuffer_New(len);
>   if (sig) {
>     void *data;
>     int dlen;
>     if (!PyObject_AsWriteBuffer(sig,&data,&dlen))
>       memcpy(data,buf,dlen);
>     else {
>       Py_DECREF(sig);
>       sig = 0;
>     }
>   }
>   free(buf);
>   return sig;
> }
>
> Now, I would like to use PyBuffer_FromMemory(buf,len), but then I have no
> way of knowing when to free(buf).  Or do I?  Am I missing something?  Is
> there a way for me to know when the Buffer object is being deleted so
> that I can free the underlying C data?

Staring at the definition of PyBufferObject in bufferobject.c, I see
it has a member 'b_base' of type PyObject *, which is DECREF'd when
the buffer is destroyed (by the buffer dealloc function). Looks to me
like you could do something using a CObject with a passed destructor:

/**********/
/* WARNING: UNTESTED CODE */

/* the contents of PyBufferObject are supposed to be private, so you
   need to include this */
typedef struct {
        PyObject_HEAD
        PyObject *b_base;
        void *b_ptr;
        int b_size;
        int b_readonly;
        long b_hash;
} PyBufferObject;

PyObject *
toBuffer(char *buf, int len) {
   PyObject *sig = PyBuffer_FromMemory(buf, len);
   if (sig) {
      /* pass 'free' as the destructor for the passed memory */
      (PyBufferObject *)sig->b_base = PyCObject_FromVoidPtr(buf, free);
   }
   return sig;
}
/**********/

Now, when the buffer is deallocated, the CObject at b_base will be
DECREF'd, which will free your memory.

This is a bit ugly, as it depends on internal details. Another,
cleaner, method is to define an object which obeys the buffer
protocol, and handles destruction like you want. (This is annoying, as
you'll end up copying all the code in bufferobject.c).

-- 
|>|\/|<
/--------------------------------------------------------------------------\
|David M. Cooke
|cookedm(at)physics(dot)mcmaster(dot)ca



From LogiplexSoftware at earthlink.net  Tue Jul  1 17:53:20 2003
From: LogiplexSoftware at earthlink.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: 01 Jul 2003 14:53:20 -0700
Subject: Suggesting for overloading the assign operator
In-Reply-To: <3F01CC7B.F71C4C0B@hotmail.com>
References: <6f03c4a5.0306301931.3f15fbb7@posting.google.com>
	 <2259b0e2.0307010328.1e1b4a04@posting.google.com>
	 <6f03c4a5.0307010910.35ca3158@posting.google.com>
	 <3F01CC7B.F71C4C0B@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <1057096400.1457.20.camel@software1.logiplex.internal>

On Tue, 2003-07-01 at 11:01, Alan Kennedy wrote:
> Not that I'm proposing that the OPs solution be adopted. Just that I think he is
> addressing a valid concern.

I agree that it is a valid concern.  I think, however, that other valid
concerns outweigh this one.  I suspect you think so as well, otherwise
you would have omitted the first sentence.

Regards,

-- 
Cliff Wells, Software Engineer
Logiplex Corporation (www.logiplex.net)
(503) 978-6726  (800) 735-0555





From skip at pobox.com  Wed Jul  9 11:55:11 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 10:55:11 -0500
Subject: QUESTION
In-Reply-To: <F7DB8D13DB61D511B6FF00B0D0F062330559722C@mail.hebmex.com>
References: <F7DB8D13DB61D511B6FF00B0D0F062330559722C@mail.hebmex.com>
Message-ID: <16140.15071.44316.897109@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    >> I do not ever recall seeing "python" in the programs.

    gustavo> Compaq didn't bundle Python with it's computers, if that's what
    gustavo> you're asking.

    >> I have been having alot of problems with my computer lately and I am
    >> removing unecessary "junk".

    gustavo> Then, by all means, enter the control panel, select "Add or
    gustavo> Remove Programs", look for Python's entry and double-click on
    gustavo> it to remove it.

I think you might want to be careful about deleting Python from your
COMPAQ.  It appears that COMPAQ did actually deliver Python on some of their
systems:

    http://wingide.com/pipermail/marketing-python/2003-February/001050.html

Deleting Python from the computer may make future upgrades difficult.

Skip




From missive at frontiernet.net  Sun Jul 20 18:36:41 2003
From: missive at frontiernet.net (Lee Harr)
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 22:36:41 GMT
Subject: python tags on websites timeout problem
References: <cdac0350.0307191527.755df3e1@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <slrnbhm6eq.97u.missive@localhost.my.domain>

In article <cdac0350.0307191527.755df3e1 at posting.google.com>, jeff wrote:
> Hiya
> 
> im trying to pull tags off a website using python ive got a few things
> running that have the potential to work its just i cant get them to
> becuase  of certain errors?
> 
> basically i dont what to download the images and all the stuff just
> the html and then work from there, i think its timing out because its
> trying to downlaod the images as well which i dont what to do as this
> would decrease the speed of what im trying to achieve, the URL used is
> only that for an example
> 

A web page is made up of many separate components. When you
"download a webpage" you generally are fetching the HTML code,
and you will not get any images unless you specifically
download those by their own URLs.



> this is my source
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> #!/usr/bin/env python
> import re
> import urllib
> 
> file = urllib.urlretrieve("http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=rabbit"
> , "temp1.tmp")
> 

Two things:

Don't use the name "file" as the name of your variable, as that
is now the standard way to access a file (used instead of open)

Why save the file and then read it back in?

I might do something like...

text = urllib.urlopen('http://www.example.org')
for line in text.readlines():
    print line


> # searching the file content line by line:
> keyword = re.compile(r"</a>")
> 
> for line in text:
>     result = keyword.search (line)
>     if result:
>        print result.group(1), ":", line,

There are no parentheses in your regex, so I do not
think you will ever have a group(1)

>>> import re
>>> keyword = re.compile(r"</a>")
>>> x = 'abc </a> def'
>>> z = keyword.search(x)
>>> z.groups()
()
>>> z.group(0)
'</a>'
>>> z.group(1)
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
IndexError: no such group


>>> keyword = re.compile(r"(</a>)")
>>> z=keyword.search(x)
>>> z.group(0)
'</a>'
>>> z.group(1)
'</a>'



> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> and these are the errors im getting

> 
> C:\Python22>python tagyourit.py
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "tagyourit.py", line 5, in ?
>     file = urllib.urlretrieve("http://images.google.com/image
> 8&oe=UTF-8&q=rabbit" , "temp1.tmp")

Is this newline (between image and 8 really there?  Maybe
there is a problem with the URL...


>   File "C:\PYTHON22\lib\urllib.py", line 80, in urlretrieve
>     return _urlopener.retrieve(url, filename, reporthook, dat
>   File "C:\PYTHON22\lib\urllib.py", line 210, in retrieve
>     fp = self.open(url, data)
>   File "C:\PYTHON22\lib\urllib.py", line 178, in open
>     return getattr(self, name)(url)
>   File "C:\PYTHON22\lib\urllib.py", line 292, in open_http
>     h.endheaders()
>   File "C:\PYTHON22\lib\httplib.py", line 695, in endheaders
>     self._send_output()
>   File "C:\PYTHON22\lib\httplib.py", line 581, in _send_outpu
>     self.send(msg)
>   File "C:\PYTHON22\lib\httplib.py", line 548, in send
>     self.connect()
>   File "C:\PYTHON22\lib\httplib.py", line 532, in connect
>     raise socket.error, msg
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I think maybe you just are not getting any response at
all from your try to fetch.  Can you get any other URL ?
Maybe google is watching user-agent strings to try to keep
spiders out of their pages?





From udo.gleich at web.de  Tue Jul 29 04:11:09 2003
From: udo.gleich at web.de (Udo Gleich)
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 10:11:09 +0200
Subject: mixin class
References: <3F24F8D2.E1ADFB08@web.de> <2259b0e2.0307281355.34725f83@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3F262C1D.605117F2@web.de>

> > mixed =  new.classobj("K1_K2", (K1, K1), {})

There is an error in the code. Obviously it should
read

mixed =  new.classobj("K1_K2", (K1, K2), {})
                                    --



From ajw126 at york.ac.uk  Wed Jul  9 14:49:35 2003
From: ajw126 at york.ac.uk (Andrew Wilkinson)
Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 18:49:35 +0000
Subject: QUESTION
References: <mailman.1057759874.18441.python-list@python.org> <Xns93B3A7263F3D1k23vzqpmre@194.106.32.13>
Message-ID: <3f0c5593$0$45179$65c69314@mercury.nildram.net>

Simon Bayling wrote:
> I suggest you go to a tutorial and start learning Python :)
> If that doesn't interest you, try renaming the folder and using your PC
> for a while... if nothing you want to keep suddenly breaks then you can
> most likely safely remove it.

If your pc does still work ok having renamed it, I would rename it back to
Python, and then try and run the uninstaller. This will remove any registry
entries and file type associations.

HTH,
Andrew Wilkinson

-- 
Quiet! You'll miss the humorous conclusion





From usenet at soraia.com  Mon Jul 28 12:37:14 2003
From: usenet at soraia.com (Joe Francia)
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 16:37:14 GMT
Subject: Any Software can Python <-> Delphi ?
In-Reply-To: <bg2ul3$jvg6p$1@ID-142885.news.uni-berlin.de>
References: <bg2ul3$jvg6p$1@ID-142885.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <_icVa.1123902$ZC.164425@news.easynews.com>

PythonMan wrote:
> Any Software can change Python source code to Delphi ?
> thx
> 

You might find an easier time of it to embed your Python in Delphi, or, 
even better, write a Python extension with Delphi:

http://www.atug.com/andypatterns/pythonDelphiTalk.htm
http://membres.lycos.fr/marat/delphi/python.htm

jf




From python-url at phaseit.net  Mon Jul 28 05:19:45 2003
From: python-url at phaseit.net (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 09:19:45 -0000
Subject: Dr. Dobb's Python-URL! - weekly Python news and links (Jul 28)
Message-ID: <vi9qlh9u6ulma3@corp.supernews.com>

QOTW:  "What's the reason for having two symbols [!= and <>] mean the same
thing?  Hysterical raisins.  Python originally used only '<>'.  C
programmers whined about that, so Python added '!=' too.  But Python code
already used '<>', so it was too late to get rid of that one.  '<>' was
deprecated instead.  That's a computer science term usually meaning it's
like a mentally disturbed uncle:  we won't kill it, but we won't talk about
it either <wink>.  The good news is that Guido has become more hardened to
whining over the centures since then."       -- Tim Peters

"As they say, science advances, funeral by funeral."
                                            -- Marc Wilson


Discussion
----------
     Raymond Hettinger intrigues with the third episode of a series of
     mysterious Python puzzles.
         <http://groups.google.com/groups?threadm=tH5Ta.24164$7O.4744 at nwrdny01.gnilink.net>

     Paul Rubin proposes a language extension to deal with closing files
     in a nice way.
         <http://groups.google.com/groups?threadm=7xhe5b82ip.fsf%40ruckus.brouhaha.com>

     While the original question was about scripting Paint Shop Pro
     Duncan Booth shows how easy it is to write text in an image
     by using PIL.
         <http://groups.google.com/groups?threadm=Xns93C2B04C1DD91duncanrcpcouk at 127.0.0.1>

     Steven Taschuk discusses several ways to implement Singletons in Python.
         <http://groups.google.com/groups?threadm=mailman.1058723911.12956.python-list at python.org>

     Raymond St. Marie writes something that I'm not sure of what it is,
     but it is funny nonetheless.
         <http://groups.google.com/groups?threadm=20030726235931.05032.00000547 at mb-m26.aol.com>

     Chris Perkins wrote a checkable iterator, for when you need to
     know when an iterator is exhausted.
         <http://groups.google.com/groups?threadm=45228044.0307211220.7590d7e9 at posting.google.com>

     Raymond Hettinger argues that a new syntax to create Sets is not needed.
         <http://groups.google.com/groups?threadm=wKEUa.4422$AO6.252 at nwrdny02.gnilink.net>

     Bengt Richter gives a detailed analysis and example code for a
     genric 'namespace' type to store variables in.
         <http://groups.google.com/groups?threadm=bfutsf$flc$0 at 216.39.172.122>

     A possible way to help you finding errors in your Python programs is by
     listing all identifiers that are used. Bengt Richter wrote a little program
     that does just this (mind the correction in the follow-up message).
         <http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=nl&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=bfsn0b%24htm%240%40216.39.172.122&rnum=14>
         <http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=nl&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=bfsqrs%24q1g%240%40216.39.172.122>

Announcements
-------------
     It was a busy week, last week!

     Guido van Rossum is interviewed in the Wall Street Journal.
         <http://online.wsj.com/article_email/0%2c%2cSB105874358077089900-H9jeoNplal2op2mZYCIb6aAm5%2c00.html>
         <http://groups.google.com/groups?threadm=4868482a.0307211318.8f2e6d0 at posting.google.com>

     Bruce Eckel talks with Bill Venners about how Python's minimal finger
     typing allows programmers to focus on the task, not the tool, generating
     a productivity that makes more projects feasible.
         <http://www.artima.com/intv/tipping.html>

     Python 2.3 release candidate 2, the second and last release candidate
     for Python 2.3 This will become Python 2.3 final if no new major bugs
     are found this week.
         <http://www.python.org/2.3/>
     A binary installer for MacPython-2.3rc2 for Mac OS X 10.2:
         <http://www.cwi.nl/ftp/jack/python/mac/MacPython-OSX-2.3rc2-3.dmg>

     PythonD 2.2.1 Release 2.0, a 32-bit, multi-threaded, networking- and
     OpenGL-enabled Python interpreter for DOS and Windows
         <http://members.lycos.co.uk/bdeck/pythond.htm>

     KirbyBase is a simple, pure-python, flat-file database management 
     system ...
	 <http://www.netpromi.com/kirbybase.html>

     Epydoc 2.0, a tool for generating API documentation for Python modules,
     based on their docstrings.
         <http://epydoc.sourceforge.net/>

     Aap's 1.0 release is not only "the first stable version of this
     powerful build tool", but offers the potential of real money
     for interested developers.
         <http://www.a-a-p.org/>

     py2exe 0.4.1, is a distutils extension to convert python scripts into
     windows exe-files (plus a few dlls), able to run on computers without
     requiring a python installation.
         <http://starship.python.net/crew/theller/py2exe/>

     The SciPy '03 Workshop on Scientific Computing with Python is being held
     at Cal Tech again this year. It is a two day workshop held September
     11-12 in Pasadena, CA.
         <http://www.scipy.org/site_content/scipy03>

     WebTK 0.alpha3, a Python framework using Twisted as its underlying
     Web server, allowing webmasters to develop websites like any classic
     GUI software.
         <http://www.webtk.org/>

     Leo 3.12, an outlining editor/browser/organizer for programmers.
         <http://sourceforge.net/projects/leo/>

     numarray 0.6, an array processing extension supporting records,
     memory mapping,  and computational capabilities.
         <http://www.stsci.edu/resources/software_hardware/numarray>

     CUTE 0.1.6, a Qt and Scintilla based text editor which can be
     easily extended using python.
         <http://cute.sf.net>

     SciParam 1.0.0 is a Python package to easily add additional quality
     control for entering scientific parameters in wxPython-based user
     interfaces.
         <http://great-er.intevation.org/sciparam/>

     WordUtils 0.7.0, pure-Python objects related to word searching
     and matching.
         <http://cedar-solutions.com/software/wordutils/>

     Fnorb 1.3, a pure-Python CORBA implementation.
         <http://fnorb.sourceforge.net/>

     cx_Freeze 2.1, a set of utilities for freezing Python scripts into
     executables. cx_OracleDBATools 1.2 and cx_OracleTools 7.1, a set of
     Python scripts that handle Oracle tasks in a cross platform manner.
         <http://starship.python.net/crew/atuining/>

     imgv 2.8.6, a cross-platform image viewer written entirely in Python,
     using Pygame.
         <http://imgv.sourceforge.net/>

     pynum2word-0.1, translate numbers into words in different languages.
         <http://sourceforge.net/projects/pynum2word/>


========================================================================
Everything you want is probably one or two clicks away in these pages:

    Python.org's Python Language Website is the traditional
    center of Pythonia
        http://www.python.org
    Notice especially the master FAQ
        http://www.python.org/doc/FAQ.html

    PythonWare complements the digest you're reading with the
    daily python url
         http://www.pythonware.com/daily  
    Mygale is a news-gathering webcrawler that specializes in (new)
    World-Wide Web articles related to Python.
         http://www.awaretek.com/nowak/mygale.html 
    While cosmetically similar, Mygale and the Daily Python-URL
    are utterly different in their technologies and generally in
    their results.

    comp.lang.python.announce announces new Python software.  Be
    sure to scan this newly-revitalized newsgroup at least weekly.
        http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&as_ugroup=comp.lang.python.announce

    Brett Cannon continues the marvelous tradition established by 
    Andrew Kuchling and Michael Hudson of summarizing action on the
    python-dev mailing list once every other week.
	http://www.python.org/dev/summary/

    The Python Package Index catalogues packages.
        http://www.python.org/pypi/

    The somewhat older Vaults of Parnassus ambitiously collects references
    to all sorts of Python resources.
        http://www.vex.net/~x/parnassus/   

    Much of Python's real work takes place on Special-Interest Group
    mailing lists
        http://www.python.org/sigs/

    The Python Business Forum "further[s] the interests of companies
    that base their business on ... Python."
	http://www.python-in-business.org

    The Python Software Foundation has replaced the Python Consortium
    as an independent nexus of activity
        http://www.python.org/psf/

    Cetus does much of the same
        http://www.cetus-links.org/oo_python.html

    Python FAQTS
        http://python.faqts.com/

    The old Python "To-Do List" now lives principally in a
    SourceForge reincarnation.
        http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?atid=355470&group_id=5470&func=browse
        http://python.sourceforge.net/peps/pep-0042.html
     
    The online Python Journal is posted at pythonjournal.cognizor.com.
    editor at pythonjournal.com and editor at pythonjournal.cognizor.com
    welcome submission of material that helps people's understanding
    of Python use, and offer Web presentation of your work.

    *Py: the Journal of the Python Language*
        http://www.pyzine.com

    Archive probing tricks of the trade:
        http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&as_ugroup=comp.lang.python&num=100
        http://groups.google.com/groups?meta=site%3Dgroups%26group%3Dcomp.lang.python.*

Previous - (U)se the (R)esource, (L)uke! - messages are listed here:
  http://www.ddj.com/topics/pythonurl/         
  http://purl.org/thecliff/python/url.html (dormant)
or
  http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&as_q=+Python-URL!&as_ugroup=comp.lang.python


Suggestions/corrections for next week's posting are always welcome.
E-mail to <Python-URL at phaseit.net> should get through.

To receive a new issue of this posting in e-mail each Monday morning
(approximately), ask <claird at phaseit.net> to subscribe.  Mention
"Python-URL!".


-- The Python-URL! Team--

Dr. Dobb's Journal (http://www.ddj.com) is pleased to participate in and
sponsor the "Python-URL!" project.




From leo.broska at NOSPAM.isys.com.au  Wed Jul  2 22:09:38 2003
From: leo.broska at NOSPAM.isys.com.au (Leo)
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 12:09:38 +1000
Subject: arbitrary long integer aritmetics
References: <bdtv1s$22dm$1@otis.netspace.net.au>
Message-ID: <be036i$cm7$1@otis.netspace.net.au>

thanks guys

i just should've read the doc. ;-)

leo

"Leo" <leo.broska at NOSPAM.isys.com.au> wrote in message
news:bdtv1s$22dm$1 at otis.netspace.net.au...
> hi all
>
> is there a python module around allow using arbitrary long integers?
>
> i.e. the result of an integer operation is as long as necessary, so that
a*b
> never produces an overflow error. (but rather an out of memory error ;-) )
>
> thanks, leo






From peter at engcorp.com  Mon Jul 14 17:30:43 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 17:30:43 -0400
Subject: PyQT, Sharp Zaurus and color in the QTextBrowser
References: <slrnbh60lj.3jm.sybrenUSE@sybren.thirdtower.com> <mailman.1058214925.28095.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3F132103.4D18759F@engcorp.com>

Tim Gerla wrote:
> 
> Very fun stuff. Someday I hope to have a Zaurus or similar device to
> toy with. Anyway, to actually be on topic, "proper" HTML (XHTML 1.0,
> and maybe HTML 4.0? I don't recall...) requires double-quotes to be
> used. Single quotes are illegal. 

Are you certain about that?  It seems very unlikely that it would 
outlaw use of single quotes when it is supposed to be XML-compatible, 
and XML explicitly allows either single or double quotes around attributes.

I checked a page or two at W3C and couldn't find an obvious way to 
prove that you are wrong, but I think the onus is on you to prove
that you are right here.

-Peter



From theller at python.net  Thu Jul 24 02:39:40 2003
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 08:39:40 +0200
Subject: Newbie question regarding py2exe.
References: <mailman.1059012102.343.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <k7a8ig2b.fsf@python.net>

Marco.LaRosa at csiro.au writes:

> Hi all,
>
> This is a dumb question and I apologise. 
>
> I have just started using py2exe and no matter what I try, I can't get it to
> work.
>

The only thing (IMO) you can do severely wrong is to create your scripts
and your setup.py file in the lib/site-packages/py2exe directory. Use a
different directory for that.

> Sometimes modulefinder.py complains, other times its VersionInfo.py. 

If you only get warnings, that's ok. They are warnings;-)
Look in the dist/... directory for an exe file (and the additional dlls/pyds).

Thomas



From peter at engcorp.com  Tue Jul 15 17:30:15 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 17:30:15 -0400
Subject: [OT] sentances with two meanings
References: <37d6f77c.0307130932.1e3adf0d@posting.google.com> <3f11ac74$0$49101$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl> <ad052e5c.0307131718.4903430d@posting.google.com> <3F12808B.E53193B8@hotmail.com> <87brvw3ula.fsf@pobox.com> <4701fb.8co.ln@195.171.216.1> <Xns93B99C8B951A6duncanrcpcouk@127.0.0.1> <bhahn-ya02408000R1507031248170001@news.corp.hp.com> <87smp7biet.fsf@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <3F147267.3C3CE115@engcorp.com>

"John J. Lee" wrote:
> 
> bhahn at spam-spam.g0-away.com (Brendan Hahn) writes:
> 
> > duncan at rcp.co.uk wrote:
> > >"Colin S. Miller" <colinsm.spam-me-not at picsel.com> wrote:
> > >To "take someone in" means to trick or deceive them.
> >
> > "take in" can also mean to observe.
> 
> But "take someone in" never means that.  It really is a wonder that we
> manage to communicate this way...

Never say never.  I could picture a writer better than I, carefully 
crafting a sentence in a book involving a very, very large women (or
man, let's not be sexist here), saying something to the effect of 
"She was so large, I couldn't take her all in."

But you're write (sic) about it being hard to communicate sometimes.

(Did I mean "sometimes you're right", or did I mean "sometimes it's 
hard to communicate"? ;-)

-Peter



From sschwarzer at sschwarzer.net  Sat Jul 26 20:00:46 2003
From: sschwarzer at sschwarzer.net (Stefan Schwarzer)
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 02:00:46 +0200
Subject: Standard behaviour of a getSomething method
In-Reply-To: <vi5vbppbkht521@news.supernews.com>
References: <A128D751272CD411BC9200508BC2194D03382C3A@escpl.tcp.com.ar> <mailman.1059084757.18138.python-list@python.org> <bfulr8$5mi$1@online.de> <vi5vbppbkht521@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <bfv4ne$gtv$1@online.de>

John Roth wrote:
> "Stefan Schwarzer" <sschwarzer at sschwarzer.net> wrote in message
> news:bfulr8$5mi$1 at online.de...
>> Somewhat, I dislike the sometimes recommended __getattr__/__setattr__
>> approach. I wouldn't like to have something like
> 
> That sounds more than a bit heavyhanded to me. The more
> general practice is simply to name private attributes with a
> leading underscore. Then you can verify that there aren't any
> improper references by scanning the source for references to
> underscored variables that don't start with "self._".

I refered to public attributes here. For private (i. e. implementation-
specific) attributes I would just use the leading-underscore convention,
like you.

Stefan




From robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk  Thu Jul 31 07:09:09 2003
From: robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Becker)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 12:09:09 +0100
Subject: RELEASED Python 2.3 (final)
References: <mailman.1059523523.23534.python-list@python.org>
 <3f27bacd$0$49113$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
 <c76ff6fc.0307301323.62f3ccd6@posting.google.com>
 <bg9hgu$k31$1@panix2.panix.com>
 <38ec68a6.0307301828.7310e01b@posting.google.com>
 <Ol%Va.2860$cI2.2543@nwrdny01.gnilink.net> <3F28EA71.6A863E7@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <gryZ9MBVjPK$EwDP@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>

I've been testing reportlab with 2.3 and although it's a lot faster I
get some ominous warnings and complaints from the future.

1) SyntaxWarning: assignment to None
   eg for None, name in colorNamePairs:
   what is the preferred way to do this nowadays? It's fairly
   trivial to go through and change these to for notUsed, x in ....
   but is there a nicer way.

2) FutureWarning: hex/oct constants > sys.maxint will return positive  
   values in Python 2.4 and up
   eg self.assertEquals(ttf.read_ulong(), 0x81020304) # big-endian
   Is there no way to preserve the clarity of the above in future?
   We have quite a lot of code that deals with low level binary 
   formatted stuff. Changing will move it further away from the
   original C definitions.

   The same applies to

   FutureWarning: x<<y losing bits or changing sign will return a long 
   in Python 2.4 and up
   eg sum = (hi << 16) | (lo & 0xFFFF)

   Is Python moving away from the machinery? Are there efficient
   recipes for doing these 32 bit operations? Certainly cut and
   paste to and from java/c/c++ will be a lot harder.

Apart from these minor troubles seems pretty solid.
-- 
Robin Becker



From usenet_spam at janc.invalid  Wed Jul 16 00:36:29 2003
From: usenet_spam at janc.invalid (JanC)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 04:36:29 GMT
Subject: Library for pop over ssl?
References: <bersm5$88gse$1@ID-165840.news.uni-berlin.de> <Xns93BA29128EBB2JanC@213.118.75.80> <1058329089.889337@yasure>
Message-ID: <Xns93BA4334E5D05JanC@213.118.75.80>

"Donn Cave" <donn at drizzle.com> schreef:

> You can also SSL-ize a protocol in Python.

AFAIK the libraries that come with the binary installer for Windows aren't 
compiled with SSL support in versions prior to 2.3, and I'm using Windows 
here...

But that shouldn't be a problem for the OP though (as he seems to be using 
Linux).

-- 
JanC

"Be strict when sending and tolerant when receiving."
RFC 1958 - Architectural Principles of the Internet - section 3.9



From adalke at mindspring.com  Wed Jul  2 15:19:46 2003
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 13:19:46 -0600
Subject: splitting a string into 2 new strings
References: <bdue2n$m07$1@aspen.sucs.soton.ac.uk> <bdv360$nt2$1@news.hccnet.nl>
Message-ID: <bdvavl$62g$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net>

Anton Vredegoor:
> The issue seems to be resolved already, but I haven't seen the split
> and strip combination:
>
> from string import letters,digits

Use "ascii_letters" instead of "letters".  The latter is based on the locale
so
might not work on some machines where "C" (or rather, byte 67) isn't
a letter in the local alphabet.

                    Andrew
                    dalke at dalkescientific.com





From staschuk at telusplanet.net  Wed Jul 30 15:05:02 2003
From: staschuk at telusplanet.net (Steven Taschuk)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 13:05:02 -0600
Subject: special case loading modules with imp
In-Reply-To: <18a.1d812bef.2c595809@aol.com>; from Erendil@aol.com on Wed, Jul 30, 2003 at 01:19:05PM -0400
References: <18a.1d812bef.2c595809@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20030730130502.A1069@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>

Quoth Erendil at aol.com:
> Thanks! There's just one part I don't get... (I like to fully understand it 
> before I use it)
> 
>      >>>exec sourcecode in mod.__dict__
> 
> What exactly does that do?

It executes the source code in the given string, using the
module's dict as the namespace.

Details:

All assignment operations bind a name to an object.  This includes
simple assignment statements such as
    x = 3
but also statements such as
    def foo():
        # ...
(which binds the name 'foo' to a certain function object).  The
mapping from name to object is maintained using a dict, one dict
for each namespace of relevance.  The globals of a given module,
in particular, are stored in a dict known as moduleobj.__dict__.

(The local namespace of a function -- the namespace in which its
local variables are bound -- actually has a different
implementation, I think, for performance.  But ignore that.)

'exec ... in ...' specifies which dict to use as the namespace for
the executed code.  Example:

    >>> d = {}
    >>> exec 't = 3' in d
    >>> d['t']
    3
    >>> exec 'def foo(x): return 11*x' in d
    >>> d['foo']
    <function foo at 0x401f2304>

Of course, name lookup uses the given namespace as well:

    >>> exec 'print foo(t)' in d
    33

Thus my suggested "import by hand" code does what importing a
module usually does -- it executes the code in the module, thereby
usually populating the module dict with functions, classes, etc..

For more, see the Language Reference section on the exec
statement, and maybe the section on Python's data model too.

-- 
Steven Taschuk                                                 o- @
staschuk at telusplanet.net                                      7O   )
                                                               "  (




From bgailer at alum.rpi.edu  Wed Jul 16 18:52:29 2003
From: bgailer at alum.rpi.edu (Bob Gailer)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 16:52:29 -0600
Subject: Augmented Assignment question
In-Reply-To: <215bhv0bnkn13eivh0s64ic5ml8obpgfg7@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20030716164227.027c9d50@66.28.54.253>

At 06:13 PM 7/16/2003 +0000, Doug Tolton wrote:

>I have a function that returns a tuple:
>
>     def checkdoc(self, document):
>         blen = document['length']
>         bates = document['obates']
>
>         normal, truncated, semicolon = 0,0,0
>         for bat in bates:
>             if len(bat) == 2 * blen:
>                 semicolon += 1
>             if len(bat) == blen - 1:
>                 truncated += 1
>             if len(bat) == blen:
>                 normal += 1
>
>         return normal, truncated, semicolon
>
>on the other side I have 3 variables:
>normal, truncated and semicolon
>
>I would like to be able to do an augmented assignment such as:
>
>normal, truncated, semicol += self.checkdoc(mydoc)
>
>however this returns the following error:
>SyntaxError: augmented assign to tuple not possible
>
>I did some reading and it seems that an augmented assignment is
>specifically verboten on tuples and lists.  Is there a clean way to
>accomplish this?  I dislike in the extreme what I've resorted to:
>
>fnormal, ftruncated, fsemicolon = 0,0,0
>
>// loop through a file and process all documents:
>         normal, truncated, semicolon = self.checkdoc(curdoc)
>         fnormal += normal
>         ftruncated += truncated
>         fsemicolon += semicolon
>
>This solution strikes me as inelegant and ugly.  Is there a cleaner
>way of accomplishing this?

I suggest: use a list instead of separate counter variables, and update the 
list within the function.

counters = [0]*4 # initialize list
def checkdoc(self, document, counters):
     blen = document['length']
     bates = document['obates']
     for bat in bates:
         if len(bat) == 2 * blen:
             x = 0
         if len(bat) == blen - 1:
             x = 1
         if len(bat) == blen:
             x = 2
         else:
             x = 3 #
         counters[x] += 1

Bob Gailer
bgailer at alum.rpi.edu
303 442 2625
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From missive at frontiernet.net  Wed Jul 23 17:13:48 2003
From: missive at frontiernet.net (Lee Harr)
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 21:13:48 GMT
Subject: Standard behaviour of a getSomething method
References: <mailman.1058966922.4133.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrnbhtunc.28gs.missive@localhost.my.domain>

In article <mailman.1058966922.4133.python-list at python.org>, Batista, Facundo:
> This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
> this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.
> 

> When I want to know about a attribute (e.g.: myAttrib) of an object, I
> should use the specific method (e.g.: getMyAttrib).
> 
> Considering that this attribute is always another object (everything is =
> an
> object in Python), what should getMyAttrib do?
> 
> 	1) Return the object
> 	2) Return a copy of the object
> 

I do not think there is a definite rule regarding this. However,
whichever one it does, you should probably document it  :o)



> How do I return a copy of the object?
> 

You can use the copy module to create either a shallow or deep copy.





From postmaster at cpress.cz  Thu Jul  3 10:02:41 2003
From: postmaster at cpress.cz (System Administrator)
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 16:02:41 +0200 
Subject: Undeliverable: Re: Movie
Message-ID: <B75EDBA2DC77D51185580090270E3E9E0830A256@MAIL05>

Your message

  To:      snajdr at cpress.cz
  Subject: Re: Movie
  Sent:    Thu, 3 Jul 2003 15:56:57 +0200

did not reach the following recipient(s):

SNAJDR at CPRESS.CZ on Thu, 3 Jul 2003 16:02:39 +0200
    The recipient name is not recognized
	The MTS-ID of the original message is: c=cz;a= ;p=computer
press;l=MAIL050307031402NXMVAZKM
    MSEXCH:IMS:Computer Press:CPBRNO:MAIL05 0 (000C05A6) Unknown Recipient


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From MatthewS at HeyAnita.com  Wed Jul  9 21:09:05 2003
From: MatthewS at HeyAnita.com (Matt Shomphe)
Date: 9 Jul 2003 18:09:05 -0700
Subject: Odd scrollbar behavior in IDLE v1.0b2 (Bug?)
Message-ID: <5ab0af73.0307091709.2baeca43@posting.google.com>

My setup:
Win2K
Python 2.3b2
IDLE 1.0b2


If I use IDLE and have a block of "wraparound" text (text that runs on
to the next line without having an explicit line break) then use the
scrollbar on the right-hand side to navigate (either by dragging on
the bar,using the scroll-wheel on the mouse, or clicking on the
directional arrows), the grey, moveable part of the scrollbar changes
size.

For example:

>>> 'a'*6000

will yield a large block of text that should demonstrate this problem.

There are two conditions:
(1) The scroll bar is active
(2) There is a block of wraparound text

To reproduce this, just move the scroll bar around.

Is this a bug that should be reported?



From lorenb2 at bezeqint.net  Sun Jul 20 20:51:24 2003
From: lorenb2 at bezeqint.net (Bobbie)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 02:51:24 +0200
Subject: Overriding Libraries Problem
Message-ID: <00d701c34f22$35b320c0$6700a8c0@inet43>

Hello,

I'm doing my first python steps so forgive my Newbies' questions.
Prob is that while using urllib2 I've found out there's a default User-agent
HTTP attribute that is being added automatically.
How can I override this behaviour (preferrable from within my code) ?
I even tried to remove the relevant code directly from my library but
alas the unsolicited attribute kept showing up.
Here's the relevant code:

class OpenerDirector:
    def __init__(self):
    server_version = "Python-urllib/%s" % __version__
    self.addheaders = [('User-agent', server_version)]

I tried to comment out the last code line but in vain...

any suggestions ?
thx
B.

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From dave at boost-consulting.com  Fri Jul 25 19:03:19 2003
From: dave at boost-consulting.com (David Abrahams)
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 19:03:19 -0400
Subject: Problem build Boost.Python
References: <ff83iv8i0c78bq1npa7kqfr0ssh7tqbpvt@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <uk7a62oqw.fsf@boost-consulting.com>

Bren <iambrenNOSPAM at sympatico.ca> writes:

> Hi,
>
> Pardon my stupid, but I'm having a problem building Boost.Python as
> per the instructions at
> http://www.boost.org/libs/python/doc/building.html
>
> I got boost-build-2.0-m6.zip from sourceforge and build bjam.exe.

It is possible to build Boost.Python under Boost.Build-2.0, but not
using those instructions.  Boost.Build v1 is still the official build
system of Boost for the time being.

[Boost.Build guys, do we need to rename the BBv2 prerelease so this
confusion doesn't recur?]

It looks like you're on windows, so you should either get the
precompiled executable in bjam-3.1.4-2-ntx86.zip, or visit the
tools/build/jam_src subdirectory of your Boost installation and invoke
build.bat as per
http://www.boost.org/tools/build/jam_src/index.html#installing


> I've tried several ways:
>
> bjam -a
> bjam -sTOOLS="msvc"
> bjam -sTOOLS=msvc
>
> I tried with and without the using msvc ; in user-config.jam.
>
> In every case I get:
>
> C:/Project/boost/tools\boostbook.jam:86: in boostbook.init
> *** argument error
> * rule path.make ( native )
> * called with: (  )
> * missing argument native
> C:/Project/boost/new\path.jam:42:see definition of rule 'path.make'
> being called
>
> C:/Project/boost/new\toolset.jam:22: in using
> C:\Project\boost\new\../new\user-config.jam:58: in modules.load
> C:/Project/boost\build-system.jam:55: in load
> C:\Project\boost\new\..\kernel\modules.jam:296: in import
> C:\Project\boost\new\..\kernel\bootstrap.jam:122: in boost-build
> C:\Project\boost\new\boost-build.jam:2: in module scope
>
>
> Can anyone help?
>

HTH,
-- 
Dave Abrahams
Boost Consulting
www.boost-consulting.com



From null-spam at tfh.ca  Mon Jul  7 14:20:59 2003
From: null-spam at tfh.ca (Sean)
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 13:20:59 -0500
Subject: Executing a remote process via WMI in Win32.
Message-ID: <becdmd$hbo$1@canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca>

I can connect to a machine remotely with no problems but I'm having trouble
trying to create a process remotely.  Initially this was a perl and VB
script which I'm converting to python.  Its entire purpose is to start a
process remotely.  The problem initially was that the perl script could not
'see' any mapped drives as it would alway return 'access denied' so I'm
trying to not only rewrite the script but fix this problem and my idea was
to connect with the Administrator account.

Now the following script sort of works.  I can get the set of running
processes but it dies out when I try to create one.

## being ##
import win32com.client
wmi = win32com.client.Dispatch('wbemscripting.swbemlocator')
remote_machine =
wmi.ConnectServer('<MACHINE>','root\\cimv2',Administrator','<PASSWORD>')

process = remote_machine.InstancesOf("Win32_Process")
for proc in process:
    size = int(proc.WorkingSetSize)/1024
    print proc.Caption, size,"kb"
# test to see if we can 'see' what's on a mapped drive.
# doesn't seem to go.
process.Create("cmd.exe /K dir w:\\")
## END ##

The script will print out all the processes fine but once it get's to
'Create' it dies out with and error message I don't understand.

NOTEPAD.EXE 80 kb
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "C:\Documents and Settings\scody\test.py", line 14, in ?
    process.Create("cmd.exe /K dir w:\\")
  File "C:\Python23\lib\site-packages\win32com\client\dynamic.py", line 460,
in
__getattr__
    raise AttributeError, "%s.%s" % (self._username_, attr)
AttributeError: InstancesOf.Create

The process method should only have the one parameter as defined at:
http://userpages.umbc.edu/~kbradl1/wsz/ref/WMIref.html#process

I just tried using the 'Terminate' process but that didn't work either....

So I'm going to assume that the WMI objects are not instantiated as python
classes (hence why the methods are not working).  Am I completely off base
here (meaning it is a syntax problem)?

Any suggestions or pointers to the right direction would be creately
appriciated...

--
Sean
(ps. remove -spam to email me).





From heafnerj at spam.vnet.net  Tue Jul 15 18:32:42 2003
From: heafnerj at spam.vnet.net (Joe Heafner)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 17:32:42 -0500
Subject: Mac OS X, Fink, Python, and web browser
References: <pdacncvRO_lmnomiU-KYuQ@ctc.net> <2b012c5e.0307151342.e5db114@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <Oq6dnaeGfdCXHImiU-KYgg@ctc.net>

Don Hiatt <donhiatt at acm.org> wrote:
> You can change your default web browser to Safari using the preferences
> pane (under internet, I believe). If IDLE_fork uses the default browser
> property then Safari should launch.
>
Hi.
I just double checked and Safari is indeed my system default under System 
Preferences -> Internet -> Web. There's no mention of Safari in 
webbrowser.py though.

JH




From http  Fri Jul 11 12:30:01 2003
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 11 Jul 2003 09:30:01 -0700
Subject: Securing 'pickle'
References: <pan.2003.07.11.01.20.47.998070@127.0.0.1> <slrnbgs4hc.hop.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local> <7x1xwxu98y.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <3F0E1875.574DC6D7@alcyone.com> <7xk7ap3j6z.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <3F0EE2E1.1C30CEA4@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <7xvfu9kovq.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Alan Kennedy <alanmk at hotmail.com> writes:
> Do you mean transmit the checksum to the client with the cookie? And
> check that they match when the cookie and checksum come back?

Yes.  See other posts in the thread for sample code.

> Or is the checksum stored on the server, in some form of lookup
> dictionary keyed by some user session identifier?

If you have a convenient way to do that, it's best to just send a
session number in the cookie, and keep all the session data on the
server.  Then you don't ever have to unpickle anything.



From bokr at oz.net  Tue Jul  1 19:48:15 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 1 Jul 2003 23:48:15 GMT
Subject: I have a list...
References: <20030701113915.226ae9bd.agg@astranet.ru>
Message-ID: <bdt6jv$dom$0@216.39.172.122>

On Tue, 1 Jul 2003 11:39:15 +0400, "Damir Hakimov" <agg at astranet.ru> wrote:

>Hi, All!
>
>say, i have a function:
>
>def f(*b):
>  print b
>  return
>
>then i do:
>f(3,4,5)
>(3, 4, 5)
>
>but i have list f=(3,4,5)
>f(l)
>((3, 4, 5),)    
>
>how can i call f function to result
>f(???(b))
>(3, 4, 5)
>
Is this what you are looking for? :

 >>> def f(*b):
 ...     print b
 ...
 >>> tup = (1,2,3)
 >>> f(tup)
 ((1, 2, 3),)

tup was single arg, but:

 >>> f(*tup)
 (1, 2, 3)

tup got unpacked to make args

 >>> L = [4,5,6]
 >>> f(L)
 ([4, 5, 6],)

L was single arg, but:

 >>> f(*L)
 (4, 5, 6)

L got unpacked similarly, but note that args become tuple b, not a list.

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From jan at jandecaluwe.com  Sun Jul 27 17:22:58 2003
From: jan at jandecaluwe.com (Jan Decaluwe)
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 23:22:58 +0200
Subject: Checking whether bool is a type
Message-ID: <3F2442B2.E660E97@jandecaluwe.com>

In my application I need to know whether bool is 
available as a type (in Python2.3) or not. I just
realized I can use the following:

jand> python
Python 2.3c1 (#1, Jul 21 2003, 12:40:39) 
[GCC 2.96 20000731 (Red Hat Linux 7.1 2.96-98)] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> type(bool) is type
True

jand> python2.2
Python 2.2.2 (#1, Oct 16 2002, 19:59:11) 
[GCC 2.96 20000731 (Red Hat Linux 7.1 2.96-98)] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> type(bool) is type
0

Great isn't it ?! Not sure whether I should consider
this to be completely obvious or very deep ...

Regards, Jan

--
Jan Decaluwe - Resources bvba
Losbergenlaan 16, B-3010 Leuven, Belgium
mailto:jan at jandecaluwe.com
http://jandecaluwe.com



From missive at frontiernet.net  Fri Jul 11 02:20:58 2003
From: missive at frontiernet.net (Lee Harr)
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 06:20:58 GMT
Subject: Zope problem:  objectValues('Folder')
References: <3F0D11C7.4010805@gmx.de> <3F0D21D4.3040902@mxm.dk> <3F0D2405.1070606@gmx.de> <3F0D2EAC.2010605@mxm.dk> <3F0D4C74.5040304@gmx.de>
Message-ID: <slrnbgslsu.15ug.missive@localhost.my.domain>

In article <3F0D4C74.5040304 at gmx.de>, Jens Riedel wrote:
> The problem seems to be somewhere else:
> 
> I used the objectValues('Folder')-method in a DTML-method named 
> 'navigation'. I include <dtml-var navigation> in a 
> 'standard_html_header' DTML method, and this standard_html_header is 
> used in the index_html document.
> All three are in the same folder which contains 3 Subfolders. If I view 
> 'navigation' or 'standard_html_header' in the management area, I see the 
> 3 folders, but in the index_html they don't appear. Everything else in 
> the standard_html_header, like stylesheets etc. are correctly shown so 
> I'm sure that the correct standard_html_header is included.
> 
> Jens
> 


Is index_html a DTML_Document, maybe?

In that case, I think objectValues() would look in the index_html for
its objects, instead of the containing folder.

Try creating a new DTML_Method and putting your code in there.




From hab at polbox.com  Fri Jul  4 08:04:57 2003
From: hab at polbox.com (hab)
Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 14:04:57 +0200
Subject: AIX + GCC 2.95.3 - Python (2.1 or 2.2) - building the shared library
 (.so) for python - HOW TO?!?
Message-ID: <3F056D69.1090705@polbox.com>

Hi all,
(If I use standard -shared linking, during the _import python is crashing.)
As seen in in AIX-NOTES there should be used ld_so_aix. But I suspect 
that it was prepared for standard xlC (CC) compiler. How to make it 
running for GCC compiler?

Now I receive following error:

gcc -Wl,-einitlib.a -Wl,-bE:lib.a.exp -Wl,-bI:./python.exp -Wl,-bhalt:4 
-Wl,-bM:
SRE -Wl,-T512 -Wl,-H512 -lm -o lib.a. -shared -Wl,-bbigtoc 
-L../../../../lib/pow
erpc_aix_4.3_gcc -L/users/tbech/ND/Python/usr/local/lib/python2.1/config 
python.
exp y.tab.o lex.yy.o idlerr.o idlutil.o idltype.o idlrepoId.o idlscope.o 
idlexpr
.o idlast.o idlvalidate.o idldump.o idlconfig.o idlfixed.o idlpython.o
ld: 0711-418 ERROR: Import or export file lib.a.exp at line 10:
         A symbol name may only be followed by an export attribute
         or an address. The line is being ignored.

When I remove this line 10 from lib.a.exp it is telling that several Py* 
functions are not exported and that entry point initlib.a not found.

Additional questions:
1. Why is such nonuderstandable-ultimate-tricky solution prepared for AIX?
2. Does it work only for xlC (CC) or also for GCC? If, how to do it?
3. What is the entry point function? How I can find it in the sources?
4. Seems that makexp_aix wrongly makes exports :(

Thanks in advance,
	Tom




From gh at ghaering.de  Sun Jul  6 18:22:44 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 00:22:44 +0200
Subject: Using Loops to track user input
In-Reply-To: <bea0p6$17f$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
References: <bea0p6$17f$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <3F08A134.9040009@ghaering.de>

Hi hokiegal99 if that's what you want me to call you,

hokiegal99 wrote:
> I don't understand how to use a loop to keep track of user input. Could 
> someone show me how to do what the program below does with a loop?

Your text book or tutorial should show that quite well, but here we go:

> 
> Thnaks!
> 
> ----------------------------
> #Write a program that reads 10 numbers from the user and prints out the 
> sum of those numbers.
> 
> num0 = input("Enter a number: ")
> num1 = input("Enter a number: ")
> num2 = input("Enter a number: ")
> num3 = input("Enter a number: ")
> num4 = input("Enter a number: ")
> num5 = input("Enter a number: ")
> num6 = input("Enter a number: ")
> num7 = input("Enter a number: ")
> num8 = input("Enter a number: ")
> num9 = input("Enter a number: ")
> 
> num = num0+num1+num2+num3+num4+num5+num6+num7+num8+num9
> 
> print num
> ----------------------------------

#v+
sum = 0.0
for i in range(10):
     sum += int(raw_input("Enter a number: "))
print sum
#v-

If your prof is any good, (s)he reads this newsgroup as well ;-)

-- Gerhard




From alan.gauld at btinternet.com  Thu Jul 24 18:31:11 2003
From: alan.gauld at btinternet.com (Alan Gauld)
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 22:31:11 GMT
Subject: very Very VERY dumb Question About The new Set( ) 's
References: <20030723144732.13232.00000523@mb-m10.aol.com>
Message-ID: <3f205d3c.745868662@news.blueyonder.co.uk>

On 23 Jul 2003 18:47:32 GMT, rastm2 at aol.commorespam (Raymond
Arthur St. Marie II of III ) wrote:

> Doc\ref 2.6 Delimiters show's three unused characters "@ $ ?".
> @ sort of looks like and sort of sounds like a set an 
> $  well sort of obvious. 
> I can imagine that the $ would be confused for money and @ is ugly.

Since I detest any thought of prefix symbols to indicate type(as
per Perl etc) but have no visibility of these debates, I'll throw
in my suggestion and done a flameproof suit!

Since both dictionaries and Sets require unique members/keys, 
why not use the dictionary braces but without the key/value
syntax. So:

mySet = {1,2,3,4}

Which is illegal for a dictionary but would be OK for a Set.
It also just happens to be the same delimiters used in math 
for sets...

Just a thought before I go to bed! :-)

Alan G.
Author of the Learn to Program website
http://www.freenetpages.co.uk/hp/alan.gauld



From ta-meyer at ihug.co.nz  Wed Jul 16 21:11:48 2003
From: ta-meyer at ihug.co.nz (Tony Meyer)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 13:11:48 +1200
Subject: IMAP examples
In-Reply-To: <1ED4ECF91CDED24C8D012BCF2B034F13026F805B@its-xchg4.massey.ac.nz>
Message-ID: <1ED4ECF91CDED24C8D012BCF2B034F130212AB34@its-xchg4.massey.ac.nz>

> I can't seem to find any decent examples on how to use the 
> IMAPLIB module. the docs aren't that sophisticated 
> unfortunately.... the cookbook entry comes close, but i'd 
> like to know if someone knows some nice examples somewhere.

What do you mean by decent?

Spambayes (http://spambayes.org) has an IMAP filter, which is an example of
using imaplib.  Whether it's decent or not, well... ;)

=Tony Meyer





From gsmatthew at ozemail.com.au  Mon Jul 14 08:26:07 2003
From: gsmatthew at ozemail.com.au (Graeme Matthew)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 22:26:07 +1000
Subject: How to give a custom object instance a type name ?
References: <DAwQa.168$O05.9536@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au> <beu76g$8t8vu$1@ID-67890.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <CjxQa.198$O05.10506@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au>

Hi Ulrich

Sorry only read some high level java stuff but have not really coded in it

thanks ill give it a try

Graeme

"Ulrich Petri" <ulope at gmx.de> wrote in message
news:beu76g$8t8vu$1 at ID-67890.news.uni-berlin.de...
> "Graeme Matthew" <gsmatthew at ozemail.com.au> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
> news:DAwQa.168$O05.9536 at nnrp1.ozemail.com.au...
> >
> > Here is a custom Dispatcher class that I have written
> >
> > >>> from BI.System.Controller.Dispatcher import Dispatcher
> > >>> x = Dispatcher()
> > >>> type(x)
> > <type 'instance'>
>
> You did Java before ;)?
>
> > How do I get the same as with instance 'm' above where the type displays
> the
> > actual object instance name, however my
> > custom dispatcher instance is just a generic 'instance', is there some
> > builtin where this is set ?
> >
>
> how about
> >>> x.__class__.__name__
>
> HTH
> Ciao Ulrich
>
>





From http  Sun Jul 20 14:42:11 2003
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 20 Jul 2003 11:42:11 -0700
Subject: "Pure Python" MySQL module like Net::MySQL
References: <bfddmi$7nk$1@eeyore.INS.cwru.edu> <mailman.1058718091.1276.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7xk7advy4c.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com> writes:
> This has benefits and disadvantages.  As the author points out, this lets
> you connect to MySQL databases from systems to which the MySQL client
> libraries haven't been ported.  On the other hand, the MySQL wire protocol
> is probably not part of the official external interface, so the author has
> to track changes to the protocol.

What the heck?  If the wire protocol isn't part of the official
external interface, then how on earth are external applications
supposed to talk to the database?  They certainly can't expect you to
use black-box client libraries if they're at all serious about being
in the same league with Oracle.



From bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au  Sat Jul 12 19:45:27 2003
From: bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au (Ben Finney)
Date: 13 Jul 2003 09:35:27 +0950
Subject: [OFF TOPIC] Re: The "intellectual property" misnomer
References: <mailman.1057978117.8939.python-list@python.org> <3f103fa7_6@corp.newsgroups.com>
Message-ID: <slrnbh18i7.749.bignose-hates-spam@rose.localdomain.fake>

On Sat, 12 Jul 2003 13:04:03 -0400, Steve Pinard wrote:
> This newsgroup is for postings related to the computer language
> Python.

The thread was in direct response to, and kept to the context of, a post
made to this group by Guido about the Python Software Foundation.  I'm
not in the habit of starting off-topic threads, and started this one
because it was of concern to the Python community specifically.

> (In other words, you all should know better. Take it outside.)

I've stated my position several times, and don't see the need to do so
again in this thread.  I'm done.

-- 
 \          "War is God's way of teaching geography to Americans."  -- |
  `\                                                   Ambrose Bierce  |
_o__)                                                                  |
http://bignose.squidly.org/ 9CFE12B0 791A4267 887F520C B7AC2E51 BD41714B



From Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org  Fri Jul 25 21:38:54 2003
From: Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org (Scott David Daniels)
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 18:38:54 -0700
Subject: Static typing
In-Reply-To: <3f218ef1$0$27926$626a54ce@news.free.fr>
References: <LvdUa.905$DU.696@fe12.atl2.webusenet.com> <3f218ef1$0$27926$626a54ce@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <3f219c8d$1@nntp0.pdx.net>

Bruno Desthuilliers wrote:
> Michael Muller wrote:
>> Is there currently any plan to introduce static typing in any future
>> version of Python?  
> Seriously, why would you do that ?

You _might_ want some static typing information as program
documentation or to enable efficient program translation.  The
types sig was interested in allowing type annotation where
possible.  Remember, the type you might want may be more like
"what protocol must these objects (the ones passing through
this variable) follow" than "what are the construction details
of these objects".

I would like to see interface descriptions describing what
kinds of parameters are required and results produced for
packages that I am considering using.  If there were a single
central-python-endorsed form for those descriptions even better.
If the descriptions can be mechanically read, and at least
sometimes mechincally checked (possibly slowly, possibly only
for slow execution), I might use such a system to check a module
before announcing it to the world.

A very old Sun study determined that most variables in a
dynamically typed system (smalltalk, IIRC) are almost always
of the same type.

David Ungar got a fair amount of mileage out of optimizing for
a guessed common case in a protype-driven language where you
couldn't even name types in the language (you make objects
"just like that one except...").

I had a sketch of how to optimize for OODBs using behavior-based
typing.  The big trick was to use the DB's knowledge of the classes
in the DB (provided for each instance in the DB) to determine
when there was, at least currently, only one method for the given
function.  An environment like that might be able to do much
better at query optimization than any OODB that allows you to
store arbitrary objects and retrieve them based on message calls.

-Scott David Daniels
Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org




From peter at engcorp.com  Wed Jul  9 05:55:23 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 05:55:23 -0400
Subject: Python Global Constant
References: <mailman.1057737013.30246.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3F0BE68B.893EB7E5@engcorp.com>

Krisztian Kepes wrote:
> 
> I want to create an module and I want to use some Global Constant in it.
> How to I create an global constant in module what is accessable in from other modules ?
> 
> like this example:
> 
> *** module dirs ***
> const Const_Up=1
> const Const_Down=1

Just do what you did above, without the "const" modifier, which
doesn't exist and is not really needed in Python.

> *** module any ***
> import dirs;
> def CheckDir(Dir):
>   if Dir=dirs.Const_Up: xxx

This code should work fine, although you might want to follow
the Python conventions for capitalization and formatting of
your code, to make it more readable for others.  For example,
variables and functions are generally mixed case, as in checkdir
or dir, while constants are usually ALLCAPS as in CONST_UP.

-Peter



From staschuk at telusplanet.net  Tue Jul  8 17:57:50 2003
From: staschuk at telusplanet.net (Steven Taschuk)
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 15:57:50 -0600
Subject: print attitude
In-Reply-To: <donn-6838FE.09532207072003@nntp1.u.washington.edu>; from donn@u.washington.edu on Mon, Jul 07, 2003 at 09:53:22AM -0700
References: <mailman.1057355899.31256.python-list@python.org> <3F0669B5.679FB505@alcyone.com> <donn-6838FE.09532207072003@nntp1.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <20030708155750.A1044@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>

Quoth Donn Cave:
  [...]
> I think some time back, Steven Taschuk proposed to submit a rewrite
> of the str & repr documentation, [...]

I did.  See
    <http://www.python.org/sf/727789>
I am not entirely satisfied with the text (suggestions welcomed);
I haven't taken the time to look at the matter again.

-- 
Steven Taschuk                                7\ 7'Z {&~         .
staschuk at telusplanet.net                        Y r          --/hG-
                                            (__/ )_             1^1`




From m at moshez.org  Tue Jul  8 01:39:36 2003
From: m at moshez.org (Moshe Zadka)
Date: 8 Jul 2003 05:39:36 -0000
Subject: anything new on the ternary operator?
In-Reply-To: <3F09E4B4.FED89C06@alcyone.com>
References: <3F09E4B4.FED89C06@alcyone.com>, <3F09252F.9B0F52BD@alcyone.com>, <mailman.1057533670.9800.python-list@python.org> <beae42$d01$1@panix2.panix.com> <mailman.1057574950.16136.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <20030708053936.25443.qmail@green.zadka.com>

On Mon, 07 Jul 2003, Erik Max Francis <max at alcyone.com> wrote:

> (And, to trump your next response, yes, I know you do not
> hail from Europe.)

Ah? Of course I'm from Europe.
[The consensus in EP was that Israel was in Europe]
-- 
Moshe Zadka -- http://moshez.org/
Buffy: I don't like you hanging out with someone that... short.
Riley: Yeah, a lot of young people nowadays are experimenting with shortness.
Agile Programming Language -- http://www.python.org/




From op73418 at mail.telepac.pt  Wed Jul 16 09:44:21 2003
From: op73418 at mail.telepac.pt (Gonçalo Rodrigues)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 14:44:21 +0100
Subject: <> and !=
References: <3F154B63.3060503@hotmail.com> <3F154BBD.2060304@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <3jlahv8o1fcu2j0oij2p31c32nftnb3er8@4ax.com>

On Wed, 16 Jul 2003 08:57:33 -0400, hokiegal99
<hokiegal99 at hotmail.com> wrote:

>that sould be:
>
>if newfile <> oldfile
>if newfile != oldfile

No difference whatsoever. I believe != is prefered (style guide?)
though -- and that's the one I always use.

With my best regards,
G. Rodrigues



From abbeflabbe at InospamIhotmail.com  Fri Jul 18 13:44:01 2003
From: abbeflabbe at InospamIhotmail.com (Linkages)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 17:44:01 GMT
Subject: gui
References: <pan.2003.07.18.00.19.12.167699@InospamIhotmail.com> <BZMRa.39548$R92.39068@news2.central.cox.net>
Message-ID: <pan.2003.07.18.12.43.37.800099@InospamIhotmail.com>

Il Fri, 18 Jul 2003 07:04:01 +0000, David M. Cook ha scritto:

> In article <pan.2003.07.18.00.19.12.167699 at InospamIhotmail.com>, Linkages
> wrote:
> 
>> a good GUI for linux ?
> 
> I like pygtk together with glade for doing layout:
> 
> FAQ: http://www.async.com.br/faq/pygtk/index.py?req=all
> Tutorial: http://www.moeraki.com/pygtktutorial/pygtk2tutorial/index.html 
> Reference: http://www.moeraki.com/pygtkreference/pygtk2reference/
> 
> There are also wxpython, pyqt, foxpy, and good old tkinter
> (which is what comes with the standard library.)
> 
> Dave Cook

tx a lot im going to try it...

bye 
linka



From gregbrunet at NOSPAMsempersoft.com  Thu Jul 31 23:25:55 2003
From: gregbrunet at NOSPAMsempersoft.com (Greg Brunet)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 22:25:55 -0500
Subject: Python speed vs csharp
References: <rkdc7poiachh.1x4jtxjzaf3zo.dlg@40tude.net>
Message-ID: <vijnean0i1ec7d@corp.supernews.com>

"Mike" <mike at nospam.com> wrote in message
news:rkdc7poiachh.1x4jtxjzaf3zo.dlg at 40tude.net...
> Bear with me: this post is moderately long, but I hope it is
relatively
> succinct.
> ...
> This is an error function approximation, which gets called around 1.5
> billion times during the simulation, and takes around 3500 seconds
(just
> under an hour) to complete. While trying to speed things up, I created
a
> simple test case with the code above and a main function to call it 10
> million times. The code takes roughly 210 seconds to run.
>
> The current execution time is acceptable, but I need to increase the
> complexity of the simulation, and will need to increase the number of
data
> points by around 20X, to roughly 30 billion. This will increase the
> simulation time to over a day. Since the test case code was fairly
small, I
> translated it to C and ran it. The C code runs in approximately 7.5
> seconds. That's compelling, but C isn't: part of my simulation
includes a
> parser to read an input file. I put that together in a few minutes in
> Python, but there are no corresponding string or regex libraries with
my C
> compiler, so converting my Python code would take far more time than
I'd
> save during the resulting simulations.
> ...
> Surprisingly (to me, at least), this code executed 10 million
iterations in
> 8.5 seconds - only slightly slower than the compiled C code.
>
> My first question is, why is the Python code, at 210 seconds, so much
> slower?
>


I'm just a little curious how test code runs 10 million cycles in 210
seconds, while production code with runs 1.5 billion cycles in 3500
seconds.  That makes your production code more efficient by roughly a
factor of 10.  If so, even though folks are only quoting an improvement
factor of about 3x for Pysco and 5-6x with Pyrex, that may be sufficient
enough for your needs.

-- 
Greg




From hwlgw at hotmail.com  Tue Jul  8 16:42:24 2003
From: hwlgw at hotmail.com (Will Stuyvesant)
Date: 8 Jul 2003 13:42:24 -0700
Subject: urllib2 for HTTPS/SSL
References: <153fa67.0307080233.2f7abdf5@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <cb035744.0307081242.44bc2997@posting.google.com>

> [Kylotan]
> ........................Is there any chance of the official
> documentation on this useful-looking module being improved?

It is one of the biggest problems with Python that not enough people
like to write good documentation about how to use the Python Standard
Library.  I think the best documentation for you is the book "Python
Standard Library" (PSL) by Fredrik Lundh with its nice examples (could
use even more!); but some bonehead at O'Reilly made the decision to
publish "Python in a Nutshell" and "Python Cookbook" instead of the
2nd edition of PSL.  But these have bad example code and the English
feels bad, not as bad as my written English perhaps but not a pleasure
to read either.

Many Python modules have a class based design and class based
frameworks need a detailed description and especially examples how to
use those classes.  That will also force the designers to give a
*motivation* for the class-based design.  Answer questions like "Why
do I want users of this module to subclass my Application class? 
Would it not be easier for them to supply just a list of functions
with a clear description of input and output?".  To my opinion there
are just too much class based designs, like for example that Twisted
thing: too much use of OO and inheritance makes it hard to understand
and often leaves the user with the question "But why...".  It would
take a *LOT* of documentation to make up for the design decisions
there.

I am not against OO, it has its virtues; I am against overusing OO. 
And especially against class-based designs with poor documentation
lacking motivation.


-- 
Python is an excellent language for learning object orientation. (It
also happens to be my favorite OO scripting language.)
    -- Sriram Srinivasan, _Advanced Perl Programming_



From alanmk at hotmail.com  Tue Jul  1 14:01:31 2003
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 19:01:31 +0100
Subject: Suggesting for overloading the assign operator
References: <6f03c4a5.0306301931.3f15fbb7@posting.google.com> <2259b0e2.0307010328.1e1b4a04@posting.google.com> <6f03c4a5.0307010910.35ca3158@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3F01CC7B.F71C4C0B@hotmail.com>

Rim wrote:

> What do you think about providing a statement to assign values
> without assigning type?
> 
> '=' statement assigns value and type
> ':=' statement assigns value ony

I think the concept has some merit. I think that sometimes it useful to ensure
that the target of a rebind operation have the same type as the object which was
bound before the rebind.

I know that the same effect can be achieved by descriptors or overriding
"setattr" et al. Or something like this

a = 9
b = 42
if isinstance(b, type(a)):
    a = b
else:
    raise TypeError("Incompatible types.")

However, these options, i.e. putting type checking logic in "setattr" et al, do
not make it explicit in the code that type enforcement is in place.

Expressing the enforcement syntactically, as Rim suggests, would make it more
explicit for the programmer, as well as providing some extremely useful
optimisation hints, especially for products such as psyco. 

Psyco, if I understand it correctly, generates machine code for all paths
through a suite, depending on the types of the objects manipulated in the suite.
Such explicitly stated type enforcement would provide valuable information to
optimisers.

Not that I'm proposing that the OPs solution be adopted. Just that I think he is
addressing a valid concern.

regards,

-- 
alan kennedy
-----------------------------------------------------
check http headers here: http://xhaus.com/headers
email alan:              http://xhaus.com/mailto/alan



From staschuk at telusplanet.net  Thu Jul 31 21:06:32 2003
From: staschuk at telusplanet.net (Steven Taschuk)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 19:06:32 -0600
Subject: <dict>.setdefault()
In-Reply-To: <3cjiivs4ippc6v7qjllfhi3knvthrfnj2g@4ax.com>; from tl_news@nexgo.de on Thu, Jul 31, 2003 at 07:13:56PM +0200
References: <kmgiivclivi0vhbgr6adel4dafflq6i6ir@4ax.com> <87ispid400.fsf@pobox.com> <3cjiivs4ippc6v7qjllfhi3knvthrfnj2g@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <20030731190632.C22513@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>

Quoth Tino Lange:
> On 31 Jul 2003 18:01:51 +0100, jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee) wrote:
  [...]
> >Don't, then.  :-)  Use key in dict, or dict.has_key(key).
> 
> or the C-like style:
> >>> a[3] = a.get(1) or b.setdefault(4,1)

Be careful doing that -- it relies on all possible values for a[1]
being true.  Consider:

    >>> a = {1: 0}
    >>> b = {} 
    >>> a[3] = a.get(1) or b.setdefault(4, 1)
    >>> a
    {1: 0, 3: 1}
    >>> b
    {4: 1}

-- 
Steven Taschuk                                                 o- @
staschuk at telusplanet.net                                      7O   )
                                                               "  (




From mesteve_b at hotmail.com  Sat Jul  5 12:10:32 2003
From: mesteve_b at hotmail.com (python newbie)
Date: Sat, 05 Jul 2003 16:10:32 GMT
Subject: trying to connect to Amazon web services
References: <u0MMa.1116$ez7.28745829@newssvr15.news.prodigy.com>
Message-ID: <YLCNa.264$982.31140985@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com>

I think I'm going to use their XML method, and just use python to parse the
resulting xml download into a csv file, much better.
"python newbie" <noemail at nospam.com> wrote in message
news:u0MMa.1116$ez7.28745829 at newssvr15.news.prodigy.com...
> Hey Py fans,
>  I have two basic motivations that I'm going for.
>
> One, to learn Python.
>
> Another, to download the list of 92 books I have added to my Amazon
wishlist
> up to now, so that I could write a clean csv file of these books to my
hard
> drive.
>
> I downloaded the pyAmazon web services package,  and read the code
examples,
> however ( and you probably don't even have to know about pyAmazon to be
able
> to offer a suggestion ) I'm not sure how to connect to the Internet.
>
> My script is so far, this:
> -------------------
> import amazon
> amazon.setLicense('< i put my number here  >')
> mywishlist = amazon.searchByWishlist(' < i put my number here  >');
> ------------
>
> .. I'm going to figure out how to get the book info from the 'mywishlist'
> object later, but if I run this script like this, this doesn't connect to
> the Internet or to Amazon.
>
> How would I do that, I'm wondering?
>
> Thanks
>
>





From candiazoo at mac.com  Sat Jul 12 23:21:29 2003
From: candiazoo at mac.com (Michael S. Jessop)
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 03:21:29 GMT
Subject: Problem with MySQLdb on Mac OS X...
References: <110720032317344670%candiazoo@mac.com> <mailman.1058024298.17294.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <120720032321075007%candiazoo@mac.com>

[[ This message was both posted and mailed: see
   the "To," "Cc," and "Newsgroups" headers for details. ]]

I tried supplying host as well, same error.    :/   Something is hosed. 
I guess I could try reinstalling.  I really want to get this to work. 
I am trying to write a maintenance program for my wife, so she can
remotely modify the database containing information about her artwork,
distribution lists, etc.

Mike J.

In article <mailman.1058024298.17294.python-list at python.org>, Skip
Montanaro <skip at pobox.com> wrote:

>     Mike> I made modifications to setup.py to set safe threading to NO and
>     Mike> also to point to the "real" location of the mysql libraries and
>     Mike> stuff like that.  To test it I wrote a simple script that just
>     Mike> tries to connect to the database.  It fails.  It also fails
>     Mike> interactively.  Here is what I am getting...
> 
> Your script worked fine for me (Mac OS X 10.2.6, Python 2.3b1+), though I
> didn't modify setup.py (at least not that I recall - it's been awhile).
> 
>     Mike> The download, build and install went fine.  This same code works
>     Mike> (well, different database name, user and password) on a different
>     Mike> machine.  The database, username and password are all correct.
> 
> The only change I made was that the database is remote, so I set the host as
> well.
> 
> Skip
>



From h.b.furuseth at usit.uio.no  Wed Jul  9 09:57:01 2003
From: h.b.furuseth at usit.uio.no (Hallvard B Furuseth (nospam nospam))
Date: 09 Jul 2003 15:57:01 +0200
Subject: M2Crypto: How to check server certificate?
References: <HBF.20030706vmfw@bombur.uio.no> <beakt3$i61$1@mawar.singnet.com.sg>
Message-ID: <HBF.20030709xrxm@bombur.uio.no>

Ng Pheng Siong wrote:
>According to Hallvard B Furuseth  <h.b.furuseth(nospam)@usit.uio(nospam).no>:
>> Does anyone know how I check the server certificate with M2Crypto?
>> Currently a program I have inherited does this:
> 
> Specify an SSL context:

Thank you.

>     from M2Crypto import SSL 
>     from M2Crypto.m2xmlrpclib import Server, SSL_Transport
> 
>     # Server is Zope-2.6.1 on ZServerSSL/0.12.
>     ctx = SSL.Context('sslv3')
>     ctx.load_cert_chain('client.pem')

I think I can drop that when I have ca.pem...

>     ctx.load_verify_locations('ca.pem')

Should be load_verify_location.

Heh.  That failed - correctly - because our test CA certificate is
expired.

>     ctx.set_verify(SSL.verify_peer, 10)

What does 10 mean?  I can see from the function declaration that it is
depth, but I don't know what depth is.

-- 
Hallvard



From exarkun at intarweb.us  Tue Jul  8 13:39:37 2003
From: exarkun at intarweb.us (Jp Calderone)
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 13:39:37 -0400
Subject: Embedding as scripting engine
In-Reply-To: <df361dd5.0307080250.2c76da80@posting.google.com>
References: <df361dd5.0307080250.2c76da80@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20030708173928.GA4404@intarweb.us>

On Tue, Jul 08, 2003 at 03:50:55AM -0700, ?lfur Kristj?nsson wrote:
> Python... a great language, no doubt. And the abillity to be able to
> extend it with C/C++ code, fantastic. But has anybody been able to
> successfully embed Python in their application to use it as a
> scripting language of sorts?

  Surprisingly, yes.

> 
> I am in the process of writing a game and from the documentation and
> word of mouth gathered that Python would be just the thing for the
> scripting part. And sure enough it is easy enough to run Python code
> from C/C++. However, in order to be make it do something actually
> useful for my game it would be handy to be able to pass in anything
> besides the basic data types (strings, numerics) such as either an
> instance of or a pointer to a gameobject. What I want to be able to do
> is something like this:
> 
> GameObject go;
> 
> Py_Initialize()
> ...
> PyObject* po = GameObject2PyObject(go);
> ...
> result = PyObject_CallObject(func, "O", po );
> ...
> go = PyObject2GameObject(result);
> 
> Theres alot of documentation and discussion out there that suggests
> that this should be possible but noone seems to tell you how it's
> actually done. Am I just missing something blatantly obvious?

  Your question is to vague and short on details to be answered usefully.

  What specific problems have you run into?

  Jp

-- 
No, `Eureka' is Greek for `This bath is too hot.'
                -- Dr. Who




From skip at pobox.com  Fri Jul 18 09:23:31 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 08:23:31 -0500
Subject: feature request: a better str.endswith
In-Reply-To: <2259b0e2.0307180401.5dae02f2@posting.google.com>
References: <2259b0e2.0307180401.5dae02f2@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <16151.62675.386894.638631@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    Michele> I often feel the need to extend the string method ".endswith"
    Michele> to tuple arguments, in such a way to automatically check for
    Michele> multiple endings.  For instance, here is a typical use case:

    Michele> if filename.endswith(('.jpg','.jpeg','.gif','.png')):
    Michele>     print "This is a valid image file"

This is analogous to how isinstance works, where its second arg can be a
class or type or a tuple containing classes and types.

I suggest you submit a feature request to SF.  A patch to stringobject.c and
unicodeobject.c would help improve chances of acceptance, and for symmetry
you should probably also modify the startswith methods of both types.

Skip





From adonisv at earthlink.net  Mon Jul 28 00:05:27 2003
From: adonisv at earthlink.net (Adonis)
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 04:05:27 GMT
Subject: Question regarding HTMLParser module.
Message-ID: <bi1Va.122444$Io.10465802@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>

When parsing my html files, I use handle_pi to capture some embedded python
code, but I have noticed that in the embedded python code if it contains
html, HTMLParser will parse it as well, and thus causes an error when I exec
the code, raises an EOL error. I have a work around for this as I use
different set of characters rather that <tag> use something like (tag) then
revert it back to <tag> via another function, I was wondering if there is a
way to tell HTMLParser to ignore the embedded tags or another alternative?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.
And another note, I am well aware of Zope, Webware, CherryPy, etc... for
py/html embedding options, but I want this to be a learning experience.

HTML processing instruction:
<?
import time
print time.strftime('%b-%d-%Y')
print '<tt>testing!()</tt>')
>

error:
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "C:\home\Adonis\python\t.py", line 40, in -toplevel-
    x.feed(z)
  File "C:\Python23\lib\HTMLParser.py", line 108, in feed
    self.goahead(0)
  File "C:\Python23\lib\HTMLParser.py", line 154, in goahead
    k = self.parse_pi(i)
  File "C:\Python23\lib\HTMLParser.py", line 232, in parse_pi
    self.handle_pi(rawdata[i+2: j])
  File "C:\home\Adonis\python\t.py", line 33, in handle_pi
    exec(data)
  File "<string>", line 4
    print '<tt
             ^
SyntaxError: EOL while scanning single-quoted string





From leo.broska at NOSPAM.isys.com.au  Mon Jul 14 07:55:00 2003
From: leo.broska at NOSPAM.isys.com.au (Leo)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 21:55:00 +1000
Subject: start a python script with input redirection in emacs
Message-ID: <beu5no$cvv$1@otis.netspace.net.au>

hi all

i use python-mode in emacs and want to start a script which gets data from
the standard input via "input".

this script works fine from the command line but in emacs via
py-execute-buffer i get always an python execution error.

additionally i want to start the script with input redirection from a file
which as well works fine via command line,but i have no idea how to tell
emacs to execute the file with input redirection.

thanks for any help,

leo





From LogiplexSoftware at earthlink.net  Thu Jul 10 14:01:21 2003
From: LogiplexSoftware at earthlink.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: 10 Jul 2003 11:01:21 -0700
Subject: replace value of a specific position
In-Reply-To: <bek8ce$ok2$1@news.uni-kl.de>
References: <bek8ce$ok2$1@news.uni-kl.de>
Message-ID: <1057860081.15508.157.camel@software1.logiplex.internal>

On Thu, 2003-07-10 at 10:36, Tom wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I want to replace a specific part of a string. I tried replace but this 
> doesn't work the way I want it, because it checks and replaces all 
> values and not the position (index).
> 
> t = '010010101001001110100101010111'
> t = t.replace(t[5], '2')
> 
> This is just a bad example of what I tried. It produces this output:
> 
> 212212121221221112122121212111
> 
> But I wanted:
> 
> 010012101001001110100101010111

>>> def strrep(s, i, c):
...     return s[:i] + c + s[i + 1:]
...
>>> t = '010010101001001110100101010111'
>>> strrep(t, 5, '2')
'010012101001001110100101010111'

-- 
Cliff Wells, Software Engineer
Logiplex Corporation (www.logiplex.net)
(503) 978-6726  (800) 735-0555





From LISTSERV at LISTSERV.DFN.DE  Sun Jul 13 20:06:08 2003
From: LISTSERV at LISTSERV.DFN.DE (L-Soft list server at Fraunhofer IMK for DFNList (1.8e))
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 02:06:08 +0200
Subject: Rejected posting to NAMESPACES@LISTSERV.DFN.DE
Message-ID: <LISTSERV%2003071402060852@LISTSERV.DFN.DE>

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From janeaustine50 at hotmail.com  Wed Jul  2 02:11:23 2003
From: janeaustine50 at hotmail.com (Jane Austine)
Date: 1 Jul 2003 23:11:23 -0700
Subject: __del__ not working with cyclic reference? (and memory-leaked?)
References: <ba1e306f.0307011837.269e3d2a@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <ba1e306f.0307012211.5d4e0f6a@posting.google.com>

> Jane Austine wrote:
> 
> > I read the gc module reference thoroughly and
> > thanks to your short comment, I could understand it.
> > (I should not use __del__ for singleton patterns, but
> > any other alternatives?)
> 
> I'm not sure why you'd want to use __del__ for a singleton pattern in
> the first place, since singleton patterns are supposed to cushion the
> creation and destruction of the singleton object away from the interface
> user.  What are you trying to do with singleton patterns as it relates
> to __del__?

For example, say the singleton has a database connection, in a cgi program.
I want the singleton clear itself(and close the connection) before
the whole process exits. It seems to be more convenient and
object-oriented.

[snip]
> 
> However, Python doesn't make any guarantees about how timely __del__
> will be called, or indeed even if it will be (in the case of circular
> references).  If you're finding yourself needing to rely on using

Then "destructor" has less use than in other environments.
Maybe I should avoid destructors in python as well as I can.

> __del__ to get rid of important objects (such as those that are attached
> to significant resources), a far better solution would be to use try:
> ... finally: clauses surrounding the usage of such objects:
> 
> resource = Resource()
> try:
>     ... use resource ...
> finally:
>     resource.close()
> 

It is neat and reliable. Thanks.

> -- 
>    Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
>  __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
> /  \ Men and women, women and men.  It will never work.
> \__/  Erica Jong



From bokr at oz.net  Wed Jul 23 22:47:02 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 24 Jul 2003 02:47:02 GMT
Subject: How does Mr. Martelli's Borg recipe work ?
References: <764b8294.0307221520.18017b09@posting.google.com> <vhru01p6s53790@news.supernews.com> <mailman.1058985883.11441.python-list@python.org> <bfmtbe$6lt$0@216.39.172.122> <mailman.1058999692.2304.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bfnhb6$7q8$0@216.39.172.122>

On Wed, 23 Jul 2003 16:40:00 -0600, Steven Taschuk <staschuk at telusplanet.net> wrote:

>Quoth Bengt Richter:
>  [borg vs singleton]
>> How about just
>> 
>>     import zerolengthfile as borginstancename
>> 
>> and using it? E.g., [...]
>
>That would be fine in many cases, I'm sure.
>
>Modules don't do properties (or other descriptor magic), though.
>
Not insurmountable ;-)

====< propmod.py >==========================================
class PropModNames(object):
    def __get__(self, ob, cls=None):
        if ob is None: return self
        return 'Shared names of propmod: %r' % vars(ob).keys()
    def __set__(self, ob, val): raise AttributeError, 'names property is read-only'
    def __delete__(self, ob, val): raise AttributeError, 'names property is read-only'

class SetPropModProp(object):
    def __init__(self): self.name2use = None
    def __get__(self, ob, cls=None):
        if ob is None: return self
        if not self.name2use:
            props = [k for k,v in vars(ob.__class__).items()
                        if not k.startswith('_') and (
                            hasattr(v, '__get__') or hasattr(v, '__set__'))]
            props.sort()
            return 'Properties of propmod: %r' % props
        else:
            return getattr(ob.__class__, self.name2use)
    def __set__(self, ob, nameNprop):
        if isinstance(nameNprop,str): self.name2use = nameNprop
        elif len(nameNprop)==1: delattr(ob.__class__, nameNprop[0]) # (name,) means delete
        else: name, prop = nameNprop; setattr(ob.__class__, name, prop)

class PropMod(object):
    names = PropModNames()
    properties = SetPropModProp() # expects propmod.setprop = name, property or name2use
    def __init__(self): __import__('sys').modules['propmod'] = self
============================================================

===< apm.py >============
import propmod as zz
=========================

The first lines below binds the real propmod module temporarily.
The second line binds the magic propmod locally and makes it available
(by PropMod.__init__ side effect ) for import by anyone else as
an ordinary (looking) "import propmod." (Note what apm.py does).

I thought it cute to make a property that is a kind of gateway to
the class attribute space, so that one can use the .properties attribute
of the propmod module to list, store, retrieve, and delete properties -- as well
as arbitrary class variables...

 >>> import propmod
 >>> propmod = propmod.PropMod()
 >>> propmod.properties
 "Properties of propmod: ['names', 'properties']"
 >>> propmod.names
 'Shared names of propmod: []'
 >>> propmod.x = 123
 >>> propmod.y = 456
 >>> propmod.names
 "Shared names of propmod: ['y', 'x']"
 >>> propmod.properties
 "Properties of propmod: ['names', 'properties']"
 >>> propmod.properties = ('hello', property(lambda self:'Hello properties!'))
 >>> propmod.properties
 "Properties of propmod: ['hello', 'names', 'properties']"
 >>> propmod.hello
 'Hello properties!'
 >>> import apm
 >>> apm.zz.properties
 "Properties of propmod: ['hello', 'names', 'properties']"
 >>> apm.zz.hello
 'Hello properties!'
 >>> apm.zz.z = 'z via apm.zz.z'
 >>> propmod.z
 'z via apm.zz.z'
 >>> apm.zz.names
 "Shared names of propmod: ['y', 'x', 'z']"
 
Not to go on and on, but ...

 >>> apm.zz.properties = ('hello',)
 >>> propmod.properties
 "Properties of propmod: ['names', 'properties']"
 >>> propmod.properties = 'names'
 >>> propmod.properties
 <propmod.PropModNames object at 0x007E01F0>
 >>> propmod.properties = ''
 >>> propmod.properties
 "Properties of propmod: ['names', 'properties']"
 >>> propmod.properties = ('classvar', 'classvar value')
 >>> apm.zz.properties
 "Properties of propmod: ['names', 'properties']"
 >>> apm.zz.classvar
 'classvar value'
 >>> apm.zz.__class__
 <class 'propmod.PropMod'>
 >>> apm.zz.__class__.__dict__.keys()
 ['__module__', 'names', '__dict__', 'classvar', '__weakref__', 'properties', '__init__', '__doc__']
 >>> apm.zz.__class__.__dict__['classvar']
 'classvar value'
 >>> apm.zz.classvar = 'obj attr'
 >>> propmod.names
 "Shared names of propmod: ['y', 'x', 'z', 'classvar']"
 >>> propmod.classvar
 'obj attr'
 >>> del propmod.classvar
 >>> propmod.classvar
 'classvar value'

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From grobinson at transpose.com  Sun Jul 27 10:22:24 2003
From: grobinson at transpose.com (Gary Robinson)
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 10:22:24 -0400
Subject: multiple file objects for some file?
Message-ID: <BB495860.2AB00%grobinson@transpose.com>

For some code I'm writing, it's convenient for me to have multiple file
objects (say, 2 or 3) open on the same file in the same process for reading
different locations.

As far as I can tell, there is no problem with that but I thought it might
be a good idea to ask here just in case I'm wrong.

Thanks in advance for any feedback...

--Gary

-- 
Putting http://wecanstopspam.org in your email helps it pass through
overzealous spam filters.

Gary Robinson
CEO
Transpose, LLC
grobinson at transpose.com
207-942-3463
http://www.transpose.com
http://radio.weblogs.com/0101454






From petrk at pochtamt.ru  Mon Jul 21 09:46:52 2003
From: petrk at pochtamt.ru (Peter Klyushkin)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 17:46:52 +0400
Subject: [OT] Re: How to save web pages for offline reading?
References: <cb035744.0307210131.5cfbc890@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <m3el0k801f.fsf@pochtamt.ru>

Hello, hwlgw at hotmail.com!

>>>>> "WS" == Will Stuyvesant writes:

 WS> I am trying to download pages from Python, for offline reading.
 WS> This to save telephone costs :-)

 WS> If a page contains something like <link rel='stylesheet'
 WS> href='../pythonware.css' type='text/css' /> and I use
 WS> fp=urllib.urlopen(...) and then fp.read(), I get the HTML but not
 WS> the CSS.  As a result the page looks bad when reading offline.
 WS> How to solve this?  Also the .GIF's in a page would be nice, but
 WS> this is less important and also would take more time to download.

<offtopic>
Try installing caching web-proxy.  If squid or oops is to heavy and
complex for you, try wwwoffle.  Anyway, this has nothing common with
Python.
</offtopic>

-- 
                                                             C'ya, Peter.
		      --=[petrk at pochtamt.ru]=--
        --=[ICQ 89449080]=--=[Jabber dassburger at jabber.ru]=--



From peter at engcorp.com  Sun Jul  6 23:03:05 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Sun, 06 Jul 2003 23:03:05 -0400
Subject: Collective memory (was: Good code patterns in Python)
References: <mailman.1057515551.18489.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3F08E2E9.8014B9A9@engcorp.com>

Michael Sparks wrote:
> 
> > One really funny problem was when I guy reformatted his Python code,
> > around 15K lines of it, and basically unindented *ALL* of the code to
> > column 1.  It was the only recoverable copy of the code too.
> >
> > He had to read the entire program line by line to recreate the logic.
> 
> I changed all the permissions in /etc once by accident as well. (to 777
> IIRC) This quite spectacularly busted my system, and that took a long
> while to sort out. At the time that was probably a similar number of lines
> affected by a pretty stupid simple action.
> 
> What's the moral? Backup regularly and often and especially before doing
> something that touches a significant amount of stuff. 

Actually, the moral is "use a revision control system".  Anyone not doing
so should not be programming professionally.(*)

-Peter

*) I speak as someone who programmed professionally without using a good
revision control system, for a while, and made some serious mistakes
as a result.  Backups are *not* sufficient, but merely a slight step
up from doing nothing at all.



From P.Schnizer at nospam.gsi.de  Thu Jul  3 03:42:10 2003
From: P.Schnizer at nospam.gsi.de (Pierre Schnizer)
Date: 03 Jul 2003 09:42:10 +0200
Subject: how to pass a file descriptor in a swig module
References: <bdueu3$ddj$1@news-reader3.wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <871xx82h0t.fsf@smtp.gsi.de>

"kj.kjn" <kj.kjn at wanadoo.fr> writes:

> My function func(File * des) is embedded in a module swig.
> 
> I would to know how to call this function from python script and if it's
> necessay
> 
> to declare a typemaps ?
> 
> Thank you
How to wrap call backs is explained here:
http://www.swig.org/Doc1.3/SWIG.html#n30

So basically you just need to wrap the C function to an pointer, and pass that
pointer to swig.

A simple example is given here:
http://www.itp.tu-graz.ac.at/~pierre/swig_example.tar.gz

Pierre



From kp at kyborg.dk  Mon Jul 14 08:42:17 2003
From: kp at kyborg.dk (Kim Petersen)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 14:42:17 +0200
Subject: How to give a custom object instance a type name ?
In-Reply-To: <DAwQa.168$O05.9536@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au>
References: <DAwQa.168$O05.9536@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au>
Message-ID: <3f12a529$0$13261$edfadb0f@dread15.news.tele.dk>

Graeme Matthew wrote:
> Hi all, quick one,
> 
> I hope I am explaining this properly, I am wanting to do some introspection
> on custom object instances, for example:
> 
>  import md5
> 
>>>>m = md5.new()
>>>>type(m)
> 
> <type 'md5.md5'>
> 
> I can at least test here by doing something like if type(m) == 'md5.md5':

how about doing this instead:

isinstance(m,md5.md5)

> 
> 
> Here is a custom Dispatcher class that I have written
> 
> 
>>>>from BI.System.Controller.Dispatcher import Dispatcher
>>>>x = Dispatcher()
>>>>type(x)
> 
> <type 'instance'>
> 
> How do I get the same as with instance 'm' above where the type displays the
> actual object instance name, however my
> custom dispatcher instance is just a generic 'instance', is there some
> builtin where this is set ?

isinstance(x,Dispatcher)

otherwise if you _really_ need the name - just do as some others indicated.


-- 
Med Venlig Hilsen / Regards

Kim Petersen - Kyborg A/S (Udvikling)
IT - Innovationshuset
Havneparken 2
7100 Vejle
Tlf. +4576408183 || Fax. +4576408188




From bgailer at alum.rpi.edu  Thu Jul  3 20:57:01 2003
From: bgailer at alum.rpi.edu (Bob Gailer)
Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 18:57:01 -0600
Subject: pipeline
In-Reply-To: <200307031208.27973.dave@pythonapocrypha.com>
References: <dGZMa.5172$351.1725266@twister.nyc.rr.com>
 <3f03f430$0$97222$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>
 <FiZMa.2097$_k2.145814@nnrp1.ptd.net>
 <dGZMa.5172$351.1725266@twister.nyc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20030703184133.024aac98@66.28.54.253>

When I worked at IBM I came across a great mainframe utility called 
Pipeline. It was driven by a specification that described data sources, 
various stages thru which the data was to be sent, various pipes  that 
connected the stages, and various destinations for the data. The 
specification was not procedural. Each line of input was treated as a unit 
of data.

Stages did things like replace, filter, sort, rearrange, conditional route 
to different pipes, split line, merge lines, translate, ....

I keep looking for something like this to arise for the PC. Have you seen 
anything like this? If not I'm inclined to write one, and Python seems a 
likely candidate for implementing such a program.

Bob Gailer
bgailer at alum.rpi.edu
303 442 2625
-------------- next part --------------

---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.492 / Virus Database: 291 - Release Date: 6/24/2003

From klappnase at web.de  Tue Jul 29 08:03:02 2003
From: klappnase at web.de (klappnase)
Date: 29 Jul 2003 05:03:02 -0700
Subject: How to stop screensaver from starting up
References: <9a410299.0307280614.444cc2b2@posting.google.com> <mailman.1059423822.25875.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a7a67196.0307290403.2ec9a70e@posting.google.com>

Jeff Epler <jepler at unpythonic.net> wrote in message news:<mailman.1059423822.25875.python-list at python.org>...

Thanks for the feedback,
 
> For systems using xscreensaver, see xscreensaver-command(1).
> 
> You could use
>     xscreensaver-command -throttle
> to force screen blanking (not screensaver) when the system is idle
> or 
>     xscreensaver-command -exit
> to force the screensaver process to exit.  In the former case, you would
> use
>     xscreensaver-command -unthrottle
> to restart the screensaver, and in the latter case
>     xscreensaver -nosplash
> in the latter.
> 
> This is not robust if multiple processes all try to manipulate the
> screensaver without some additional kind of locking.
> 
> Jeff

I know this, but what I had in mind was, if there is a way to disable
the screensaver directly from within python/tkinter while a certain
process inside my application is running (it is the recording issue I
have posted here a while ago, where it seems like memory leaks occur
while recording when a screensaver starts up).
The basic problem with the xscreensaver command is of course that it
will not work if kde-screensavers are used.
I am sorry if this is a silly question, I just thought it might be
easier to disable the screensaver while recording than to try a
workaround for the snack recording function; maybe what I want is
simply not possible.

Best regards

Michael



From jjl at pobox.com  Wed Jul 23 12:28:14 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 23 Jul 2003 17:28:14 +0100
Subject: htaccess & urllib
References: <52yTa.21249$On.2682411@twister.nyc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <878yqpb42p.fsf@pobox.com>

"Max Khesin" <max at cNOvSisiPonAtecMh.com> writes:

> Is there a way to access an htaccess-protected directory with urllib,
> password being known?

urllib2 is better than urllib.

>From the urllib2 module docstring, cut down a bit (and assuming you
mean basic HTTP authentication -- HTTPDigestAuthHandler might also be
of use to you):

import urllib2

authinfo = urllib2.HTTPBasicAuthHandler()
authinfo.add_password('realm', 'host', 'username', 'password')

opener = urllib2.build_opener(authinfo)

f = opener.open('http://www.python.org/')

print f.info()  # response headers
print f.read()  # response body


John



From fortepianissimo at yahoo.com.tw  Wed Jul 23 09:28:22 2003
From: fortepianissimo at yahoo.com.tw (Fortepianissimo)
Date: 23 Jul 2003 06:28:22 -0700
Subject: How to link a C extension module on Mac OS X?
Message-ID: <ef08387c.0307230528.441883e1@posting.google.com>

Just started learning how to write a C extension module on Mac OS X.
Here is a simple module taken from Programming Python:

---
#include <Python.h>
#include <string.h>

/* module functions */
static PyObject *                                 /* returns object */
message(PyObject *self, PyObject *args)           /* self unused in
modules */
{                                                 /* args from python
call */
    char *fromPython, result[64];
    if (! PyArg_Parse(args, "(s)", &fromPython))  /* convert Python ->
C */
        return NULL;                              /* null=raise
exception */
    else {
        strcpy(result, "Hello, ");                /* build up C string
*/
        strcat(result, fromPython);               /* add passed Python
string */
        return Py_BuildValue("s", result);        /* convert C ->
Python */
    }
}

/* registration table  */
static struct PyMethodDef hello_methods[] = {
    {"message", message, 1},       /* method name, C func ptr,
always-tuple */
    {NULL, NULL}                   /* end of table marker */
};
,
/* module initializer */
void inithello(  )                       /* called on first import */
{                                      /* name matters if loaded
dynamically */
    (void) Py_InitModule("hello", hello_methods);   /* mod name, table
ptr */
}
---

Then I did this

g++ -I/sw/include/python2.3 -dynamiclib -o hello.dylib hello.c 

and got this error message:

In file included from /sw/include/python2.3/Python.h:70,
                 from hello.c:6:
/sw/include/python2.3/objimpl.h:255: warning: use of `long double'
type; its
   size may change in a future release
/sw/include/python2.3/objimpl.h:255: warning: (Long double usage is
reported
   only once for each file.
/sw/include/python2.3/objimpl.h:255: warning: To disable this warning,
use
   -Wno-long-double.)
ld: Undefined symbols:
_PyArg_Parse
_Py_BuildValue
_Py_InitModule4
/usr/bin/libtool: internal link edit command failed



This is Mac OS X 10.2.6 with latest Fink installed. I guess the fetal
one is the ld reporting undefined symbols. Any tip? Thx.



From max at alcyone.com  Wed Jul 30 22:05:13 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 19:05:13 -0700
Subject: reading in lines from a file  -FAST!
References: <pan.2003.07.30.15.02.20.359182.15518@presidency.com> <300720031742549961%mday@apple.com>
Message-ID: <3F287959.C83CA1EA@alcyone.com>

Mark Day wrote:

> How about:
>     s = f.read()
> (assuming f is a file object)

Or, if he wants to do it 1.7 MB at a time, something like:

	while True:
	    chunk = f.read(1700000)
	    if not chunk:
	        break
	    # handle chunk here

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ Life is a zoo in a jungle.
\__/  Peter de Vries



From news at exultants.org  Thu Jul 17 04:15:48 2003
From: news at exultants.org (Van Gale)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 08:15:48 GMT
Subject: IMAP examples
In-Reply-To: <cb035744.0307162203.6b058ee1@posting.google.com>
References: <3f15cf46$0$45389$1b62eedf@news.wanadoo.nl> <cb035744.0307162203.6b058ee1@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <UWsRa.82$O94.42@newssvr24.news.prodigy.com>

Will Stuyvesant wrote:
>>[Guyon Mor?e]
>>I can't seem to find any decent examples on how to use the IMPALIB module.
>>the docs aren't that sophisticated unfortunately.... the cookbook entry
>>comes close, but i'd like to know if someone knows some nice examples
>>somewhere.
> 
> 
> I did not use it myself but there is an example in the book "Python
> Standard Library" by Fredrik Lundh.  The example file is called
> imaplib-example-1.py, maybe you can find it somewhere on the internet.

Fredrik has graciously made the book available online.

See: http://effbot.org/zone/librarybook-index.htm




From toc-01-nospam at blikroer.dk  Sat Jul  5 18:18:39 2003
From: toc-01-nospam at blikroer.dk (Tomas Christiansen)
Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2003 00:18:39 +0200
Subject: win32service problems
References: <mailman.1057237985.11859.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <be7iov$3cj$1@news.cybercity.dk>

Justin Johnson wrote:
> I created an NT service using win32service.  This service runs as a
> particular user on the domain and accepts connections to run commands on
> the server.  The service is working great on most of the servers I have,
> but on one server it fails to start

What OS'es are on the servers?

-------
Tomas



From steve at ferg.org  Wed Jul 16 09:36:54 2003
From: steve at ferg.org (Stephen Ferg)
Date: 16 Jul 2003 06:36:54 -0700
Subject: How about using python to write a CMS?
References: <bf38et$sp9$1@news.seed.net.tw>
Message-ID: <b16e4ef7.0307160536.5d6b0ffd@posting.google.com>

Why not simply use Zope?



From PoulsenL at capanalysis.com  Fri Jul 18 10:47:59 2003
From: PoulsenL at capanalysis.com (PoulsenL at capanalysis.com)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 10:47:59 -0400
Subject: reading Netscape mail folders
Message-ID: <72F73B808A78D511A73600034771D9FF7185BE@dc_exchange2.howrey.com>

I am attempting to process a number of email files that were copied from
Netscape mail users.  I am using the email module, but it doesn't seem to
adequately determine when an email is multipart.  In several instances it
refuesed to parse a multi-gig text file as multiple emails.  Has anyone
tackled this issue before with success?  Just point in the right direction
and I can read on from there.

Thanks in advance,

Loren

J. Loren Poulsen
CapAnalysis Sr. Economist
(202) 383-7141

This communication is for the named recipient only and may contain
information that is privileged, confidential and exempt from disclosure
under applicable law.  If you are not the intended recipient or the employee
or agent responsible for delivering this communication to the intended
recipient, you are hereby notified that any unauthorized use, dissemination,
distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited.  If
you are not the intended recipient, please delete the document without
opening any attachments, destroy any hard copies you may have printed and
immediately notify Howrey Simon Arnold & White that you received this e-mail
in error.







From andrew-pythonlist at puzzling.org  Sun Jul  6 00:44:06 2003
From: andrew-pythonlist at puzzling.org (Andrew Bennetts)
Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2003 14:44:06 +1000
Subject: Collective memory (was: Good code patterns in Python)
In-Reply-To: <hff5eb.e9h.ln@escape.shannon.net>
References: <mailman.1057083728.8224.python-list@python.org> <vg88va53uha8e@corp.supernews.com> <hff5eb.e9h.ln@escape.shannon.net>
Message-ID: <20030706044406.GB11835@frobozz>

On Fri, Jul 04, 2003 at 11:08:33PM -0400, Charles Shannon Hendrix wrote:
> 
> Python uses it for actually determining the logic in your program, which
> IMHO is dangerous.
> 
>     if <something>
>         <work>
>         <more work>
>         <add numbers>
> 
> Is <add numbers> part of the if statement, or did someone with different
> tab settings from the author make a mistake and align it accidentally?

C code is indented to reflect its structure, but uses braces to reflect that
structure.  This is IMHO worse.

    if (something)
        work();
        more_work();
        add_numbers();

Is add_numbers() part of the if statement?  No.  Did the author intend it to
be?  Maybe.  You can't tell.  They've indented it to imply one way, but it
actually works another way.

Given that you should indent your code to reflect the structure anyway,
Python simply discards the redundant punctuation, and avoids this sort of
ambiguity.  "There should be one-- and preferably only one --obvious way to
do it."

> One really funny problem was when I guy reformatted his Python code,
> around 15K lines of it, and basically unindented *ALL* of the code to
> column 1.  It was the only recoverable copy of the code too.
> 
> He had to read the entire program line by line to recreate the logic.

"Doctor, when I randomly corrupt my source, it doesn't work anymore!"

"So don't do that then."

As another poster pointed out, deleting e.g. all the asterisks from C code
would be equally painful.  It's not Python's fault that guy wasn't using a
version control system.

-Andrew.





From maxm at mxm.dk  Thu Jul 10 04:47:35 2003
From: maxm at mxm.dk (Max M)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 10:47:35 +0200
Subject: Python vs PHP
In-Reply-To: <kmolgv4mp12o71ocion7ra0m2s9fcrqjdk@4ax.com>
References: <mailman.1057574470.1750.python-list@python.org> <kmolgv4mp12o71ocion7ra0m2s9fcrqjdk@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3F0D2827.4070501@mxm.dk>

Afanasiy wrote:


> Python web development is fragmented.


Ahem ... How os Python web development fragmented? Most of it probably 
takes place in the Zope world.

But mod_python is an official Apache module. Wich sets it about on par 
with PHP.

It has a standard library that beats the socks of PHP's builtin functions.

On top on this there are severeal modules for templating etc. PHP does 
not have these modules, so everybody has to do it in PHP's own faulty way.

Python is not fragmented, but there are more high level modules for 
doing things.

There are more PHP developers, that's right, but they are all starting 
from scratch, with a poor language. So it's their loss.


regards Max M




From zneptune321 at zexcite.zcom  Mon Jul 14 17:38:57 2003
From: zneptune321 at zexcite.zcom (Conrad)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 21:38:57 GMT
Subject: Sio serial module install problem with ActiveState
Message-ID: <pan.2003.07.14.21.40.42.609932@zexcite.zcom>

Greetings,

I have a need to print from Win98SE to a little 
serial label printer provided by United Parcel, so 
based on Mark Hammond's recommendation in 
'Programming on Win32' I decided to try the Sio 
module at http://starship.python.net/crew/roger/

My problem:

The Sio installer dies looking for:
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Python\PythonCore\2.2\InstallPath

I am using ActiveStates Python 2.2.2 build 224 on Win98SE.

ActiveState apparently does do registry setup, for example,
the HKEY_USERS\.DEFAULT\SOFTWARE tree contains the
\Python\PythonCore\2.2\InstallPath keys. I re-installed
Python, thinking I had blown the registry, but the keys
that Sio wants are never set.

FWIW, PyPGSQL, wxPython, and the egenix MxBase packages all 
find Python on machines with ActiveState and install OK. 
I don't know what they are checking on install.

Can anyone suggest a fix/workaround for someone who is just 
a bit befuddled by registries, or did I perhaps grab the 
wrong Sio? ( I got SioModule22.EXE at 171184 bytes from:
http://starship.python.net/crew/roger/ )

BTW, this serial printer is apparently pretty much a 'dump
and go' type device - the only thing the printer seems to
be capable of returning is a 4-byte error code after a special
error report command is sent to the printer - other than that,
all of the data and commands seem to move downstream only,
with no return from the printer expected. Is Sio overkill for
this, i.e. is there some incredibly simple "open a serial port
under Win32 for write only" command I'm missing in the basic
Python stuff?

Many thanks,

Conrad




From mcfletch at rogers.com  Tue Jul 29 01:27:25 2003
From: mcfletch at rogers.com (Mike C. Fletcher)
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 01:27:25 -0400
Subject: octet string conversion
In-Reply-To: <bg4ppp$6sk$0@216.39.172.122>
References: <ec1162c7.0307281214.50b68373@posting.google.com> <bg4ppp$6sk$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <3F2605BD.8040805@rogers.com>

Bengt Richter wrote:

>On 28 Jul 2003 13:14:50 -0700, ruach at chpc.utah.edu (Matthew) wrote:
>
>  
>
>>I am working on some software that uses SNMP to get information from
>>routers and switches. I am using the pysnmp module (v2.0.8) to do the
>>snmp part. The problem that I am having is that when I query a router
>>for mac addresses pysnmp returns octetstrings like this:
>>
>>\000\002\263\254\264\351
>>\010\000 \301F\021
>>\010\000 \300\303[
>>\000\002\263\254\264\241
>>
>>what I need though is hex strings like this:
>>
>>0:e0:7d:de:5:48
>>0:e0:7d:c8:dc:9f
>>8:0:36:4:3b:de
>>0:80:ad:3a:9e:2b
>>
>>Can anyone tell me how to convert the octet strings to hex strings?
>>    
>>
>Assuming that your data is really octal character representations like \nnn,
>and the spaces, F, and [ in the middle lines are typos, and that your need example
>has nothing to do with the example data,
>
(I'll go from the other assumption, that he has simple strings of 
octets, that is, binary data)

 >>> def hexify( octets ):
...     return ":".join( [ '%x'%(ord(c)) for c in octets ] )
...
 >>> hexify ( '\010\000 \301F\021' )
'8:0:20:c1:46:11'
 >>> hexify ( '\000\002\263\254\264\351' )
'0:2:b3:ac:b4:e9'

HTH,
Mike

_______________________________________
  Mike C. Fletcher
  Designer, VR Plumber, Coder
  http://members.rogers.com/mcfletch/







From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Mon Jul 28 14:49:03 2003
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 28 Jul 2003 14:49:03 -0400
Subject: How to get success/failure in case of thread
References: <mailman.1059397780.20866.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bg3r6v$lbf$1@panix3.panix.com>

In article <mailman.1059397780.20866.python-list at python.org>,
 <vivek at cs.unipune.ernet.in> wrote:
>
>  I am trying to learn using threads  in python. But the main problem I am 
>facing is how to check whether the function called using a thread succeeded or
>failed. like when I call:
>  import thread
>  thread.start_new_thread(my_func,(args,))
>
>here my_func will return true/1 on success and false/0 on failure. How can I
>check whether the function failed/succeeded ???

While Queue is probably the best way, you could also subclass from
threading.Thread, call your function from the run() method, then set an
instance attribute.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

This is Python.  We don't care much about theory, except where it intersects 
with useful practice.  --Aahz



From srijit at yahoo.com  Wed Jul 16 10:19:49 2003
From: srijit at yahoo.com (srijit at yahoo.com)
Date: 16 Jul 2003 07:19:49 -0700
Subject: Open MS Excel Spreadsheet with Python
References: <mailman.1058229111.12248.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <221d8dbe.0307160619.2c2943c3@posting.google.com>

Hi,
I am working on Python-Excel interface based on the excellent library
win32com.
I was planning to put it up as a Python recipe in Activestate.
Anyway before that I shall personally send you the code after some
cleanup. It will be good to get an early feedback before I upload it
in Activestate.

Regards,
Srijit

"Allison Bailey" <allisonb at terralogicgis.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.1058229111.12248.python-list at python.org>...
> Hi Folks,
> 
> I'm a brand new Python programmer, so please point me in the right
> direction if this is not the best forum for this question....
> 
> I would like to open an existing MS Excel spreadsheet and extract
> information from specific worksheets and cells.
> 
> I'm not really sure how to get started with this process.
> I ran the COM Makepy utility from my PythonWin (IDE from ActiveSTate),
> using Microsoft Excel 10.0 Object Library, then
> import win32com.client
> xl = win32com.client.Dispatch("Excel.Application")
> wb = xl.Workbooks.Open ("c:\\data\\myspreadsheet.xls")
> 
> Then, I get errors when I try the following:
> sh = wb.worksheets(1)
> 
> 
> I think I'm missing something fairly fundamental, but I've googled all
> over the place and can't seem to find anything very introductory about
> opening and using data from MS Excel using Python.  Any suggestions,
> including places to get more information are welcome.  
> 
> Also, do I need to run the makepy utility every time I run my script?
> If so, how would I do it from within my Python program, rather than with
> the GUI in the IDE?
> 
> Thanks for your help,
> 
> Allison
> 
> 
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Allison Bailey
> TerraLogic GIS, Inc.
> allisonb at terralogicgis.com
> 425-673-4495
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



From grante at visi.com  Wed Jul 23 09:50:52 2003
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: 23 Jul 2003 13:50:52 GMT
Subject: python assignment
References: <fbf8d8f2.0307221659.1dd1ac77@posting.google.com> <slrnbhrqtj.9jf.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>
Message-ID: <3f1e92bc$0$161$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>

In article <slrnbhrqtj.9jf.bignose-hates-spam at iris.polar.local>, Ben Finney wrote:

>> What I need is an exact and unambiguous algorithm for determining when
>> an assignment will change the id of the variable
> 
> As I understand it, this is specific to the implementation of each type.
> The only sensible way to code is as if the identity of an object, on
> assignment, were completely unpredictable.
> 
> The examples you gave showed that integers share identity with other
> integers of the same value, while floats do not.

I believe that's only true for small integers, isn't it?

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  I want to TAKE IT
                                  at               HOME and DRESS IT UP in
                               visi.com            HOT PANTS!!



From heikowu at ceosg.de  Tue Jul 29 15:56:47 2003
From: heikowu at ceosg.de (Heiko Wundram)
Date: 29 Jul 2003 21:56:47 +0200
Subject: Itertools
In-Reply-To: <KKtVa.8$Y5.1@llslave.llan.ll.mit.edu>
References: <KKtVa.8$Y5.1@llslave.llan.ll.mit.edu>
Message-ID: <1059508607.816.69.camel@d168.stw.stud.uni-saarland.de>

Just tested the code, amend as stated (remove the - lines, and add
the + lines):

--- START OF CODE ---

import copy

class IDup(object):
	def __init__(self,iterin):
		self.__iter = iterin
		self.__iterno = 0
		self.__iteritems = []
		self.__hasstopped = None

-	def registerIter():
+	def registerIter(self):
		iterno = self.__iterno
		self.__iterno += 1
		self.__iteritems.append([])
+		return iterno

	def getNext(self,iterno):
		if self.__iteritems[iterno]:
			iteritem = self.__iteritems[iterno].pop(0)
		elif self.__hasstopped is not None:
			raise self.__hasstopped
		else:
			try:
				iteritem = self.__iter.next()
			except StopIteration, e:
				self.__hasstopped = e
				raise
			for id, i in enumerate(self.__iteritems):
				if id <> iterno:
					i.append(copy.deepcopy(iteritem))
		return iteritem

class IDupped(object):
	def __init__(self,idup):
		self.__idup = idup
		self.__iterno = idup.registerIter()

	def next(self):
		return self.__idup.getNext(self.__iterno)

+	def __iter__(self):
+		return self

def isplit(iterin,splitno=2):
	idup = IDup(iterin)
	iduppeds = []
	for i in range(splitno):
		iduppeds.append(IDupped(idup))
	return tuple(iduppeds)

test = ["hello","how","are","you?"]
x, y = isplit(iter(test))

for i in x:
	print i
for i in y:
	print i

--- END OF CODE ---

This works as stated.

Heiko.





From bokr at oz.net  Thu Jul 17 01:56:29 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 17 Jul 2003 05:56:29 GMT
Subject: Problems retrieving items from a list using a reference rather than an integer - can you help?
References: <3f15ca92@shknews01>
Message-ID: <bf5dqd$s76$0@216.39.172.122>

On Wed, 16 Jul 2003 22:57:16 +0100, "Rogue9" <lol at lolmc.com> wrote:

>Hi,
>I?m trying to retrieve an item from a list using a reference called
>?draw?' (which is an integer from 1 to 792 in a while loop) using:-
>
>draw = 1
>while 1:
>	if draw == 792:
>		break
>	b1 = someOtherList[draw-1]
>	r1 = b1[draw]
>	draw = draw+1
>
>However,the item I expect is not being retrieved i.e. a zero is the result
>of the retrieval rather than the integer in the list I was expecting.
>Furthermore,when I substitute an integer for draw e.g. r1 = b1[12],I
>do get the expected result.
>Can anyone enlighten me as to why and how to get over this please?
Assuming all the lists are big enough, why is not the end result of the
above loop just
     b1 = someOtherList[790]
     r1 = b1[791]
     draw = 792
In other words, you are not showing how your code showed you what was "being retrieved."
Put in some prints to show us. Unless there are some sneaky side effects, you could as
well start draw off at e.g. 789 so there won't be too much printing ;-)
Is someOtherList a big list of lists or is it some strange indexable producing another
strange indexable when indexed?

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From adam6No_Spam_Please at speedy.co.il  Fri Jul 25 18:20:55 2003
From: adam6No_Spam_Please at speedy.co.il (Adam)
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 00:20:55 +0200
Subject: Downloading Python files
In-Reply-To: <slrnbi2j1n.ra.luke@stclair.homelinux.net>
References: <slrnbi2j1n.ra.luke@stclair.homelinux.net>
Message-ID: <bfs6vo$k3n$1@news.iucc.ac.il>

Luke StClair wrote:

> Only marginally belonging in this newsgroup... but oh well.
> 
> I've just started writing in python, and I want to make the files
> available on the web.  So I did the standard <a
> href="mypath/myfile.py"> and not surprisingly, it displays like a
> webpage, but just the code.  If I gzip it, and then link to the new
> file, it will download, but its so small I don't want it zipped.  
> How can I make this into a downloadable
> file SIMPLY?  The other thread seems a bit complicated...
> 
> Thanks
> 
> 
> 
In order to assure that the file is downloaded and not displayed, you 
need a certain amount of control either at the client agent or the server:

1. Server: you need to be able to send the client a header which is 
intended for download rather than display (content-type not set to 
text/html)
2. Client: you need to be able to tell the client agent to download the 
data and save it as file on the disk ("Save targer as...") rather than 
display it.

Adam




From abelikov72 at hotmail.com  Thu Jul  3 15:37:07 2003
From: abelikov72 at hotmail.com (Afanasiy)
Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 19:37:07 GMT
Subject: Python in Excel
Message-ID: <bg19gvsqavkv7sa077alvec6oo6cf6eabf@4ax.com>

Can I write Excel macros/scripts using Python?

I mean to actually put Python into an Excel document, not using
Python to access data, for example, from some Excel document.

-AB



From fgeiger at datec.at  Thu Jul  3 14:16:32 2003
From: fgeiger at datec.at (F. GEIGER)
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 20:16:32 +0200
Subject: A story about Python... sort of
References: <3f03f430$0$97222$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk> <KwWMa.3332$Aw.3042@twister.nyc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <3f04727e@news.swissonline.ch>

> (who can't learn it) involved on your project? It also (by design) makes
> previous C programmers productive very fast. Empirically - just look at
all

[OT] That's not a pro, that's a con on the C++ side. And actually that's the
reason why there's so much bad C++ software. A C programmer first has to
forget C to be able to program in C++ - well, to be able to program OO in
C++.

Best regards
Franz GEIGER

"Max Khesin" <max at cNOvSisiPonAtecMh.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:KwWMa.3332$Aw.3042 at twister.nyc.rr.com...
> import flame.*
> import sorry.*
> Ok, with all my respect to python, the stuff about C++ is a bunch of
hooey.
> Compilation time is the problem? Give me a break.
> 1) separate compilation?
> 2) precompiled headers?
> 3) tools that allow cluster compilation?
> 4) ever read 'large-scale c++ development' by Lacos? a must for large c++
> project. letter-envelope idiom to help compilation...etc.
> Anyway, if you are coding so fast that compilation time becomes a serious
> problem you are either
> a) the smartest and fastest programmer on earth
> b) are not thinking enough
>
> c++ is great when execution speed and memory efficiency is a must. It is
> hard to learn, but there are great benefits, and do you really want
halfwits
> (who can't learn it) involved on your project? It also (by design) makes
> previous C programmers productive very fast. Empirically - just look at
all
> the C++ projects on SF!
>
> max.
>
>
> --
> ========================================
> Max Khesin, software developer -
> max at cNvOiSsPiAoMntech.com
> [check out our image compression software at www.cvisiontech.com,
JBIG2-PDF
> compression @
> www.cvisiontech.com/cvistapdf.html]
>
>
> "Max M" <maxm at mxm.dk> wrote in message
> news:3f03f430$0$97222$edfadb0f at dread12.news.tele.dk...
> > There is a story today on Slashdot
> >
> >
> > Open Source Project Management Lessons
> > ======================================
> >
>
http://developers.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=03/07/02/1817220&mode=flat&tid
> =185
> >
> > "Paul Baranowski takes a moment to reflect on Open Source Project
> > Management in his blog. His reflections are based on the first two years
> > of the Peek-a-booty project." Interesting comments on media coverage,
> > choice of programming language, when to release a project, and more.
> >
> >
> > In that article Paul Baranowski has a list of lessons. One being
> >
> > Engineering Lessons
> > -------------------
> >     1. C/C++ is no longer a viable development language
> >
> >
> > He doesn't really say in the article what language should be used
> > instead. But there is a link to another page:
> >
> > Which Language Do You Recommend?
> > ================================
> > http://peek-a-booty.org/Docs/WhichLanguageDoYouRecommend.htm
> >
> >
> > And guess which language it is?
> >
> >
> > regards Max M
> >
>
>





From eltronic at juno.com  Thu Jul 17 17:30:18 2003
From: eltronic at juno.com (eltronic at juno.com)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 17:30:18 -0400
Subject: [OT] Re: Problems retrieving items from a list {lottery numbers}
Message-ID: <20030717.173024.-176465.0.eltronic@juno.com>

> >At 04:05 PM 7/17/2003 +0100, Rogue9 wrote:
> >to illustrate the problem I'm having.Therefore I have 
> >printed the listing  below which is quite short 
> >and hopefully won't annoy too many people
> >about the length of my post.
> >To reiterate:
> >The masterList holds the results for the UK lottery

>[snip]
On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 10:51:41 -0600 Bob Gailer <bgailer at alum.rpi.edu>
writes:
> I sure hope you are not writing "yet another winning lottery number 
> predictor". It is a sad commentary on mathematics education when 
> individuals belive that one can predict the outcome of a truly 
> random 
> process based on any history. 

there are only few things more important than understanding just how
random a list of numbers are. although, I agree the properly conducted
lottery is random enough, therefore, we agree, don't quit your day job.
in NY's pic3, randomness is ensured by randomly substituting each
component of the draw, number balls, machines, air pressurem weather, who
knows what else. and one can assume, sophisticated PHD's whose job
depends on ensuring randomness are working on the list and sharing info.

in NY numbers pic3, 000 to 999 possible, 1 of 1000.
presumably the easiest to guess. if you think its impossible to narrow
down the numbers to a buyable amount, then you have either never tryed or
failed or believe people who tell you that its impossible. if anyone
tells you its possible to narrow down the list to a buyable amount day
after day, or on any particular day, they haven't run enough simulations.
IMO, independant of amount of data and assuming all data is accurate. we
know there are winning tickets out there never cashed in because the
newspapers or official websites published the wrong info,
mixed up the days, transcription errors, random bit errors. letting
history go beyond a few weeks is useless due to the changes in the
picking operation itself. and a few weeks of data isn't enough to turn up
miniscule variations assuming you could correct for the weather.

 you will stand to win more than you spend or lose more than you spend on
tickets. no one can guess which it will be. faith to overcome the reality
that you will lose more often than you will win is a personal, however
flawed, decision. the falacy is that because position one number hasn't
appeared for 28 days, it soon must. and it forces you to pick position
two and position three ready or not.
the simulation of possible numbers bought and outcomes is the more
valuable program. 

randomly picking numbers from all possible numbers is often as good as
culling a list of ready to hit numbers.
a good source of random numbers is, you guessed it, lotteries. but in
this case you really don't want random numbers you want a repeatable list
that matches pervious picks extropolated into the future.
I repeat, the numbers I'm familiar with are random.
creating a system of narrowing down the numbers is probably a lost cause,
possibly in violation of the rules.
it really depends on how much you desire to get out of the exercise, so I
cant really quibble with the futility point.

with that disclaimer:
write smaller bits of code which can be tested separately.
docstring testing is great for this. it specifys how the function will be
used and if the data changes you can more easily adapt. 
 with out seeing more of the code itself, its hard to guess if the
program is correct from unit test and data. to simplify the program you
might try to pick just the first number of the day. as you know the
numbers are often sorted for publication, if so, you begin with flawed
data.



e

________________________________________________________________
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From mis6 at pitt.edu  Sat Jul 12 15:14:21 2003
From: mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato)
Date: 12 Jul 2003 12:14:21 -0700
Subject: Accessing and updating global variables among several modules
References: <a12f6af8.0307111938.4d7a9851@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <2259b0e2.0307121114.5689529b@posting.google.com>

fumingw at tom.com (Fuming Wang) wrote in message news:<a12f6af8.0307111938.4d7a9851 at posting.google.com>...
> Hi,
> 
> I have several modules that need to access global variables among
> them.  I can do that by import modules:
> 
> module A:
> gA = 'old'
> 
> module B:
> import A
> print A.gA
> >>> 'old'
> 
> change gA in module A after some initialization:
> def init_fuct():
>     gA = 'new'

Are you aware that in this way your creating a *local* variable gA
(local to the function init_fuct) without touching the original 
gA variable? Try

def init_fuct():
    global gA
    gA = 'new'

HTH,

         Michele



From raims at dot.com  Sun Jul 20 05:33:20 2003
From: raims at dot.com (Lawrence Oluyede)
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 11:33:20 +0200
Subject: object as a reserved keyword
References: <vtnkhvoqcet2bgmeidae1st46m7q9sr1p3@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <7dokhvgv12fdbha8sun6c6q658cth5uq2c@4ax.com>

On Sun, 20 Jul 2003 11:29:03 +0200, Lawrence Oluyede <raims at dot.com>
wrote:

>I'd like to avoid oddities like this:

I just noticed that it's the same thing with other builtin types such
as list, dict and so on... Hope anyone exlpain me the reason to that.
Maybe is beyond my views...

Lawrence



From grobinson at transpose.com  Tue Jul 15 11:03:51 2003
From: grobinson at transpose.com (Gary Robinson)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 11:03:51 -0400
Subject: md5 consistent across platforms/Python versions?
Message-ID: <BB399017.29A40%grobinson@transpose.com>

Hi,

I know that hash functions are often platform-dependent for efficiency
reasons. From what I understand, this includes Python's hash(), which I have
read is not guaranteed to return the same result across platforms or even
across Python versions.

Can someone tell me whether an MD5 hash using Python's MD5 library IS
guaranteed to return the same results for the same input string, across
platforms and Python versions?

My limited understanding of how MD5 is normally used would seem to indicate
that this must be the case, but it would be helpful for me to have
confirmation, since my knowledge in this area is very limited.

--Gary

-- 
Putting http://wecanstopspam.org in your email helps it pass through
overzealous spam filters.

Gary Robinson
CEO
Transpose, LLC
grobinson at transpose.com
207-942-3463
http://www.transpose.com
http://radio.weblogs.com/0101454






From none at n.com  Mon Jul 21 20:27:32 2003
From: none at n.com (none)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 20:27:32 -0400
Subject: Python bug with dictionary
Message-ID: <3F1C84F4.3B1E4F9A@n.com>

or is it just me?

I am having a problem with using a dictionary as an attribute of a
class.   This happens in python 1.5.2 and 2.2.2 which I am accessing
through pythonwin builds 150 and  148 respectively

In the sample code you see that I have  class Item and  class Dict
class Dict contains a dictionary called items.  The items dictionary
will contain instances of Item that are keyed off of the Item name.  In
__main__ I create two distinct instances of Dict and 4 distinct
instances of Item.  By using the accessor method addItem() in Dict I add
the instances of Item to Dict.  In this case I add  Item1 and Item2 to
Dict1 and I add Item3 and Item4 to Dict2.    When this is done I print
out the instances of Dict and of Item.  It appears that the dictionary
items in each of the Dict instances is the exact same instance even
though they were created as distinctly separate classes.  The print out
of the results shows them at the same memory address.  The items
dictionary inside of each Dict object have the same id when I do
id(dict1.items) and id(dict2.items).  This means that each of the items
dictionary in the Dict instances has all four items in it, even though
each should only have two.   Apparently when I add the first to Item
instances to dict1 and then the second two Item instances to dict2 they
are being added to the same items dictionary.

If I assign the Item instances to the items dictionary without using the
accessor method this does not occur.  I have also tried a test with
lists with and without accessor method.  This works fine also.  The
simple solution is not to use accessor method but shouldn't this work?

Dale


class Dict:
    items = {}
    name = ""

    def addItem(self,item,name):
        self.items[name] = item


    def setName(self,name):
        self.name = name

    def getName(self):
        return self.name

    def printItemKeys(self):
        print "Dictonary Keys:            ",self.items.keys()


class Item:
    name = ""

    def getName(self):
        return self.name

    def setName(self,name):
        self.name = name


if __name__ == '__main__':

    dict1 = Dict()
    dict1.setName("dict1")

    dict2 = Dict()
    dict2.setName("dict2")

    item1 = Item()
    item1.setName("item1")

    item2 = Item()
    item2.setName("item2")

    item3 = Item()
    item3.setName("item3")

    item4 = Item()
    item4.setName("item4")

    print "Item 1: ",item1
    print "Item 2: ",item2
    print "Item 3: ",item3
    print "Item 4: ",item4

    print "\n"

    dict1.addItem(item1,item1.getName())
    dict1.addItem(item2,item2.getName())

    dict2.addItem(item3,item3.getName())
    dict2.addItem(item4,item4.getName())



    print "Dictionary Object:         ",dict1
    print "Dictionary Name:           ",dict1.getName()
    dict1.printItemKeys()
    print "Dictionary Keys:           ",dict1.items.keys()
    print "Dictionary Item Objects:   ",dict1.items
    print "\n"
    print "Dictionary Object:         ",dict2
    print "Dictionary Name:           ",dict2.getName()
    dict2.printItemKeys()
    print "Dictionary Keys:           ",dict2.items.keys()
    print "Dictionary Item Objects:   ",dict2.items
    print "\n"
    print "ID of items in dict1:      " + str(id(dict1.items))
    print "ID of itmes in dict2:      " + str(id(dict2.items))



Item 1:  <__main__.Item instance at 0x00778F20>
Item 2:  <__main__.Item instance at 0x00779240>
Item 3:  <__main__.Item instance at 0x00779518>
Item 4:  <__main__.Item instance at 0x00779820>


Dictionary Object:          <__main__.Dict instance at 0x00778BE8>
Dictionary Name:            dict1
Dictonary Keys:             ['item2', 'item3', 'item1', 'item4']
Dictionary Keys:            ['item2', 'item3', 'item1', 'item4']
Dictionary Item Objects:    {'item2': <__main__.Item instance at
0x00779240>, 'i
tem3': <__main__.Item instance at 0x00779518>, 'item1': <__main__.Item
instance
at 0x00778F20>, 'item4': <__main__.Item instance at 0x00779820>}


Dictionary Object:          <__main__.Dict instance at 0x00778BB0>
Dictionary Name:            dict2
Dictonary Keys:             ['item2', 'item3', 'item1', 'item4']
Dictionary Keys:            ['item2', 'item3', 'item1', 'item4']
Dictionary Item Objects:    {'item2': <__main__.Item instance at
0x00779240>, 'i
tem3': <__main__.Item instance at 0x00779518>, 'item1': <__main__.Item
instance
at 0x00778F20>, 'item4': <__main__.Item instance at 0x00779820>}


ID of items in dict1:      8016928
ID of itmes in dict2:      8016928




From gregadelliot at hotmail.com  Sat Jul 19 19:27:35 2003
From: gregadelliot at hotmail.com (jeff)
Date: 19 Jul 2003 16:27:35 -0700
Subject: python tags on websites timeout problem
Message-ID: <cdac0350.0307191527.755df3e1@posting.google.com>

Hiya

im trying to pull tags off a website using python ive got a few things
running that have the potential to work its just i cant get them to
becuase  of certain errors?

basically i dont what to download the images and all the stuff just
the html and then work from there, i think its timing out because its
trying to downlaod the images as well which i dont what to do as this
would decrease the speed of what im trying to achieve, the URL used is
only that for an example

ive included my source and the errors 

cheers

greg

this is my source

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

#!/usr/bin/env python
import re
import urllib

file = urllib.urlretrieve("http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=rabbit"
, "temp1.tmp")

# open a file
file = open("temp1.tmp","r")
text = file.readlines()
file.close()

# searching the file content line by line:
keyword = re.compile(r"</a>")

for line in text:
    result = keyword.search (line)
    if result:
       print result.group(1), ":", line,
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
and these are the errors im getting

C:\Python22>python tagyourit.py
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "tagyourit.py", line 5, in ?
    file = urllib.urlretrieve("http://images.google.com/image
8&oe=UTF-8&q=rabbit" , "temp1.tmp")
  File "C:\PYTHON22\lib\urllib.py", line 80, in urlretrieve
    return _urlopener.retrieve(url, filename, reporthook, dat
  File "C:\PYTHON22\lib\urllib.py", line 210, in retrieve
    fp = self.open(url, data)
  File "C:\PYTHON22\lib\urllib.py", line 178, in open
    return getattr(self, name)(url)
  File "C:\PYTHON22\lib\urllib.py", line 292, in open_http
    h.endheaders()
  File "C:\PYTHON22\lib\httplib.py", line 695, in endheaders
    self._send_output()
  File "C:\PYTHON22\lib\httplib.py", line 581, in _send_outpu
    self.send(msg)
  File "C:\PYTHON22\lib\httplib.py", line 548, in send
    self.connect()
  File "C:\PYTHON22\lib\httplib.py", line 532, in connect
    raise socket.error, msg
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



From pythonguy at Hotpop.com  Wed Jul 30 04:01:17 2003
From: pythonguy at Hotpop.com (Anand Pillai)
Date: 30 Jul 2003 01:01:17 -0700
Subject: Wrtiting AVI files with  Python
References: <3b24bbb8.0307290957.17a126b8@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <84fc4588.0307300001.70bf5edb@posting.google.com>

AFAIK the only apis in python that come close to being called 
multimedia APIs are PIL and the ming library for reading SWF
files. PIL has support for basic animation like Animated gifs
and Autodesk flc/fli animations but not for the 'heavy' formats
like AVI/MPEG/QT.

  Of course one cannot write a library for managing multimedia
formats like AVI/MPEG in pure python. The best approach is to
borrow some C++ library code and implement a python interface 
for it. Something similar to the spread toolkit for python.
(http://www.python.org/other/spread/)

  I was interested in creating a multimedia library for python for 
handling AVI/MPEG files in this manner by using a widely available
C++/C library and writing a python extension for it. I have not yet
done anything for it. If you plan to write one, please post it here so 
that I can join in or help with the coding.

Regards

~Anand 




touma at eglin.af.mil (JamesT) wrote in message news:<3b24bbb8.0307290957.17a126b8 at posting.google.com>...
> Hi all,
> 
> I looked around for information about how to write AVI files with
> Python but I didn't find any. PIL does not have that feature
> implemented. The closest thing I found what the source code for
> avifile which is in C++. Does any one know if there is such a tool for
> Python or some libraries that I could import and use in my code?
> 
> Thanks,
> JET



From lamar_air at hotmail.com  Fri Jul 11 10:34:51 2003
From: lamar_air at hotmail.com (lamar_air)
Date: 11 Jul 2003 07:34:51 -0700
Subject: Enter parameters into Fortran executable from python cgi script
Message-ID: <2c6431ab.0307110634.1bf59a6b@posting.google.com>

I have a fortran executable which when run from cmd it asks for a
series of parameters which you enter then hit enter.
>From my python cgi script i want to be able to run the executable. 
Enter the 4 or 5 parameters needed then end the executable and
redirect to another web page which will display some results given
from an output file from the fortran executable.

When the user clicks submit on the form it seems to hang up on the
interaction between python cgi and fortran exe.  In this example the
fortran exe only accepts on variable then terminates.

How do i do this correctly?
testrun3 can be accesed from any dir because it's directory is set in
the environment variables.

import os
os.system("testrun3") 
os.system("Y")
os.system("exit")



From just at xs4all.nl  Tue Jul  8 09:51:03 2003
From: just at xs4all.nl (Just van Rossum)
Date: Tue,  8 Jul 2003 15:51:03 +0200
Subject: path module
In-Reply-To: <16138.51270.256713.554899@montanaro.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <r01050400-1026-3A869FC5B14B11D7A953003065D5E7E4@[10.0.0.23]>

Skip Montanaro wrote:

>     Just>   a.join(b, c, d)
> 
>     Just> which I don't think is all that bad.
> 
> Yes, but 
> 
>     a/b/c/d
> 
> is nicely analogous to Unix pathname syntax.

But when the items are variables, what you read is not what you get.
Often you'll want (some) literals, and then you get

    path = basePath/"a"/"b"/"c"

...and _that_ I find quite horrible...

(Did I mention that / usually means divide in Python? ;-)

Just




From scpusenet at werbung.schabi.de  Mon Jul  7 03:19:23 2003
From: scpusenet at werbung.schabi.de (Markus Schaber)
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 09:19:23 +0200
Subject: Apache mod_python and Sessions
References: <20030704131617.4b1a73ca.scpusenet@werbung.schabi.de>
Message-ID: <20030707091923.1f12f872.scpusenet@werbung.schabi.de>

Hi,

On Fri, 4 Jul 2003 13:16:17 +0200
Markus Schaber <scpusenet at werbung.schabi.de> wrote:

> Does anybody know a module that works with Apache 1.3 mod_python and
> provides session tracking?

Thanks for all that answered, I now found the nice debian package
python_weblib that does what I need (Additionally, my boss suggested
that we should not use mod_python but CGI instead.)

I just was too stupid by including "apache" in all my search requests on google and apt-cache - this filtered out lots of useful answers...

Thanks,
Markus



From ianb at colorstudy.com  Sun Jul 20 21:42:02 2003
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: 20 Jul 2003 20:42:02 -0500
Subject: Possible use of Python for a voting machine demo project --
	your feedback requested
In-Reply-To: <K_idnV09hdycrYaiRTvU2Q@speakeasy.net>
References: <P9DSa.111436$Io.9552373@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
	 <bff56e$8iv$1@slb9.atl.mindspring.net> <7xllus94t8.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	 <K_idnV09hdycrYaiRTvU2Q@speakeasy.net>
Message-ID: <1058751722.28066.2514.camel@lothlorien>

On Sun, 2003-07-20 at 19:12, A.M. Kuchling wrote:
> On 20 Jul 2003 16:06:11 -0700, 
> 	Paul Rubin <> wrote:
> > one another.  Otherwise the ballot would be a voting receipt,
> > something that a good voting system should not provide.  Search for
> > "receipt-free voting" in Google to see what a big problem this is for
> > computerized systems.
> 
> On the other hand, given the ready availability of cellphones with digital
> cameras, even in a paper-based system you can now make your own voting
> receipt while you're still in the voting booth.  Not clear what can be done
> about this... perhaps you'll have to hand in your cellphone when voting, and
> go through an X-ray system to prove you don't have it.

In this system you could prove that you filled out *one* ballot a
certain way, but not that the ballot you took a picture of was the same
ballot that you submitted, since you can throw ballots away and start
over.

  Ian






From jepler at unpythonic.net  Fri Jul 11 12:44:27 2003
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 11:44:27 -0500
Subject: Embedding Python, threading and scalability
In-Reply-To: <beku19$r61$1@panix2.panix.com>
References: <ec23a1ae.0307081354.5fc06cb@posting.google.com> <bekg96$mi$1@panix2.panix.com> <mailman.1057877718.17081.python-list@python.org> <beku19$r61$1@panix2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <20030711164427.GB16513@unpythonic.net>

On Thu, Jul 10, 2003 at 07:48:57PM -0400, Aahz wrote:
> In article <mailman.1057877718.17081.python-list at python.org>,
> Jeff Epler  <jepler at unpythonic.net> wrote:
> >On Thu, Jul 10, 2003 at 03:54:14PM -0400, Aahz wrote:
> >>
> >> Other people have mentioned Perl and Tcl in this thread.  I wonder how
> >> they deal with the problem of loading DLLs with static data.
> >
> >As far as I know, tcl enforces a one interpreter to one thread
> >requirement.  An extension should have only thread-local data, using a
> >Tcl-supplied API.
> 
> What happens when Tcl wants to interact with some 3rd-party DLL that is
> *not* thread-safe?

I guess you'd have to do your own locking.  Tcl has standard C APIs for
Conditions, Mutexes, and thread-specific data, see the Thread(3) manpage.
You'd have to surround all non-reentrant calls with Tcl_MutexLock(m)
... Tcl_MutexUnlock(m).  If two extensions wanted to use the same
non-thread-safe library, they'd have to cooperate in some way to use
the same 'm' to Tcl_Mutex*().  I don't know if there's a standard way to
do this, but I think that having the mutex defined in a shared lib they
both link might work.

Jeff




From owski at hotmail.com  Wed Jul 16 18:00:22 2003
From: owski at hotmail.com (Adam Ruth)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 22:00:22 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: anything like C++ references?
References: <mailman.1058377226.21359.python-list@python.org> 
	<20030716130631003-0600@news.xmission.com> 
	<8sdbhvk5b5ia2onmbca4ajkaidpu3ht9ed@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <20030716160013839-0600@news.xmission.com>

In <8sdbhvk5b5ia2onmbca4ajkaidpu3ht9ed at 4ax.com> Stephen Horne  wrote:
> On Wed, 16 Jul 2003 19:06:40 +0000 (UTC), Adam Ruth
> <owski at hotmail.com> wrote:
> 
>>In <mailman.1058377226.21359.python-list at python.org> Michael Chermside  
>>wrote:
> 
>>> Look, first of all, let me say that I disagree with Stephen Horne in
>>> this discussion. Or, to be more precise, I think that the approach 
>>> he is using is not one which is useful in describing Python. HOWEVER,
>>> that doesn't mean that there's NOTHING to what he is saying, and 
>>> your claim that there is no situation requiring "pointers" in Python 
>>> seems wrong to me.
> 
> Thankyou - nice to know I'm not *completely* insane ;-)
> 
>>You are correct in that there are times when pointer semantics would 
>>be  somewhat useful, but they're never necessary.  His statement was 
>>that  there are time that "you really can't avoid pointers".
> 
> Hmmm - those words were in a context. I never claimed that "you really
> can't avoid pointers" in *current* Python - that's obviously not true.
> But if the copy-on-write stuff were implemented, the need would arise.
> For example...

It sure seemed that way to me:

<prior dicussion>
>>They're an unhappy necessity, akin to stop-lights.  You need them
>>because roads intersect, but if roads don't intersect, don't use them!
>
>Absolutely true. And the worst thing you can do when you really can't
>avoid pointers is to obscure the issue even more by disguising them as
>something else.
</prior discussion>

We were talking about people who wrap things in lists to simulate 
pointers.  It would seem, from your statement, you think there are 
situations where you really can't avoid pointers.  If I misread that, I 
apologize.

> 
>>>> class c :
> ....   x = 0
> ....
>>>> k = c()
>>>> def fn(a) :
> ....   a.x=1
> ....
>>>> fn(k)
>>>> k.x
> 
> At the moment, the result is 1. With copy-on-write, object parameters
> would behave exactly the same as integer or other immutable
> parameters. The result would be 0. You'd need pointers or references
> or call-by-reference to do a number of things.

Something occurred to me earlier today.  And that is that Python does 
use copy-on-write semantics for parameter calls, it's just that Python 
only has one data type.  A reference.  The reference is passed by value 
to the function, just as you describe it should.  Python, however, has a 
futher layer of abstraction on top of its one data type, and that's 
objects.  I would venture that it's the extra layer of abstraction that 
makes Python work in a more intuitive, proper way.

This is, however, just my opinion.  But it does seem that new 
programmers who learn this abstraction find it natural and simple.  It's 
people coming from C, et al., that seem thrown off by it.

> 
>>I definitely went a little overboard, and it sounds like I'm saying, 
>>"not only are pointers not necessary, they're never desirable".  My 
>>tone  was a bit more knee jerk than was prudent.
> 
> Then I withdraw certain comments I've made. I really can't complain
> about people going "a little overboard", can I ;-)

It's much less overboard then I've been known to go.  I must be making 
progress :)

> 
>>This is just as clear as the C++ version, and more clear than the 
>>Python  version that wraps with the list.  This example, though, 
>>doesn't really show the difference, it's too  trivial.  All of the 
>>versions are clear enough, with the difference  being academic. 
> 
> I agree with both of these comments.
> 
>>I would be interested in seeing a more complex example where something 
>>would be substantially cleaner with pointers.  I have to acknowledge 
>>the  possibility that they exist, I don't know everything... yet :)
> 
> I was told today that both Perl and ML have something equivalent to
> pointers. I don't know either language, though. Given the current
> audience, mentioning Perl may be a mistake - but we could look up the
> rationale for including them in ML.
> 
> That is something to do with caution, though. I imagine that ML is a
> very different language to Python. I have used Haskell and Miranda,
> which are at least broadly the same paradigm but may or may not be
> quite a similar languages, but even those I never exactly knew well.
> 
> The rationales might not be very portable.

>From this discussion, there seem to be two points regarding pointers.

1)  Whether or not pointers are necessary, or helpful in Python as it 
now stands.  This is debatable.
2)  Whether or not pointers would be necessary if Python used a form of 
parameter passing more like you prefer.  I now see better that this is 
what you are talking about regarding pointers.  That they *would* be 
necessary if copy-on-write were in use.  That I can agree with, they 
would be necessary (or at least some of the semantics).  I still can't 
see that copy-on-write is better than what we have now, but hey, I 
prefer Pepsi to Coke, so that tells you something!

As a side note, based on your description of your eduction and studies 
in an earlier post, I realize now how different our backgrounds seem to 
be.  I'm coming from a world where the focus is engineering (Ada is the 
only language purpose-built for engineering, AFAIK).  You seem to come 
from a background more focused on science and theory.  Perhaps this is 
the cause of our different world views (on this issue).  Just a thought, 
though it is interesting we both chose Python.

Adam Ruth



From mike at nospam.com  Thu Jul 31 02:09:22 2003
From: mike at nospam.com (Mike)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 23:09:22 -0700
Subject: Python speed vs csharp
Message-ID: <rkdc7poiachh.1x4jtxjzaf3zo.dlg@40tude.net>

Bear with me: this post is moderately long, but I hope it is relatively
succinct. 

I've been using Python for several years as a behavioral modeling tool for
the circuits I design. So far, it's been a good trade-off: compiled C++
would run faster, but the development time of Python is so much faster, and
the resulting code is so much more reliable after the first pass, that I've
never been tempted to return to C++. Every time I think stupid thoughts
like, "I'll bet I could do this in C++," I get out my copy of Scott Meyers'
"Effecive C++," and I'm quickly reminded why it's better to stick with
Python (Meyers is a very good author, but points out lots of quirks and
pitfalls with C++ that I keep thinking that I shouldn't have to worry
about, much less try to remember). Even though Python is wonderful in that
regard, there are problems.

Here's the chunk of code that I'm spending most of my time executing:

# Rational approximation for erfc(x) (Abramowitz & Stegun, Sec. 7.1.26)
# Fifth order approximation. |error| <= 1.5e-7 for all x
#
def erfc( x ):
   p  =  0.3275911
   a1 =  0.254829592
   a2 = -0.284496736
   a3 =  1.421413741
   a4 = -1.453152027
   a5 =  1.061405429

   t = 1.0 / (1.0 + p*float(x))
   erfcx = ( (a1 + (a2 + (a3 +
             (a4 + a5*t)*t)*t)*t)*t ) * math.exp(-(x**2))
   return erfcx

This is an error function approximation, which gets called around 1.5
billion times during the simulation, and takes around 3500 seconds (just
under an hour) to complete. While trying to speed things up, I created a
simple test case with the code above and a main function to call it 10
million times. The code takes roughly 210 seconds to run. 

The current execution time is acceptable, but I need to increase the
complexity of the simulation, and will need to increase the number of data
points by around 20X, to roughly 30 billion. This will increase the
simulation time to over a day. Since the test case code was fairly small, I
translated it to C and ran it. The C code runs in approximately 7.5
seconds. That's compelling, but C isn't: part of my simulation includes a
parser to read an input file. I put that together in a few minutes in
Python, but there are no corresponding string or regex libraries with my C
compiler, so converting my Python code would take far more time than I'd
save during the resulting simulations.

On a lark, I grabbed the Mono C# compiler, and converted my test case to
C#. Here's the corresponding erfc code: 

   public static double erfc( double x )
   {
      double p, a1, a2, a3, a4, a5;
      double t, erfcx;

      p  =  0.3275911;
      a1 =  0.254829592;
      a2 = -0.284496736;
      a3 =  1.421413741;
      a4 = -1.453152027;
      a5 =  1.061405429;

      t = 1.0 / (1.0 + p*x);
      erfcx = ( (a1 + (a2 + (a3 +
                (a4 + a5*t)*t)*t)*t)*t ) * Math.Exp(-Math.Pow(x,2.0));
      return erfcx;
   }

Surprisingly (to me, at least), this code executed 10 million iterations in
8.5 seconds - only slightly slower than the compiled C code. 

My first question is, why is the Python code, at 210 seconds, so much
slower?

My second question is, is there anything that can be done to get Python's
speed close to the speed of C#?

-- Mike --



From mis6 at pitt.edu  Wed Jul  2 12:55:11 2003
From: mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato)
Date: 2 Jul 2003 09:55:11 -0700
Subject: cooperation of buitlin methods usingtsuper
References: <bduh36$rgn$1@news.sns-felb.debis.de>
Message-ID: <2259b0e2.0307020855.478300c2@posting.google.com>

Matthias Oberlaender <matthias.oberlaender at REMOVE.daimlerchrysler.com> wrote in message news:<bduh36$rgn$1 at news.sns-felb.debis.de>...> I would like  to adopt the cooperation paradigm in conjunction with builtin 
> methods and operators, such as len, iter, +, * etc. 

Fine.

> But the direct approach does not work with the current implementation of 
> super. For example, 'len(super(Y, y)' will always result in 'len() of 
> unsized object'.

Of course, it must give an error! I think you do not understand how 
super works. But don't worry, that's quite common ;)

> As far as I understand, this is because builtins don't use a dynamic lookup 
> chain, but go directly to the slots for the builtins. However, super returns 
> an instance of class 'super'. Since all super objects share this class,  its 
> slots will not be filled as one might hope. 

> My workaround is this: I create a subclass of 'super' on the fly each time I 
> call 'mysuper'.  Look at the definition below.  It seems to work. But maybe 
> I have overlooked something. Is my understanding correct? Is 'mysuper' a 
> good solution? Possible improvements? (e.g. caching of subclasses)

> Thanks for comments!


> import new
 
> class X(object):
>  def __len__(self): return 2222

> class Y(X):
>  def __len__(self): return 1111

> def mysuper(cls, inst):
>   return new.classobj('mysuper', (super,) + cls.__bases__, {})(cls, inst)

> y = Y()
> try:
>  print len(super(Y, y))
> except Exception, msg:
>  print msg

> try:
>  print len(mysuper(Y, y))
> except Exception, msg:
>   print msg

>Output:

> len() of unsized object
> 2222

I think you should re-read the documentation and
google on the newsgroup for 'super'. The use case
for super is in multiple inheritance, as in this example:

class B(object):
    def __len__(self):
      print 'called B.__len__'
      return 1111
    
class C(B):
  def __len__(self):
      print 'called C.__len__'
      return super(C,self).__len__()

class D(B):
  def __len__(self): 
      print 'called D.__len__'
      return super(D,self).__len__()

class E(C,D):
    pass

print len(E())

The output of this is

called C.__len__
called D.__len__
called B.__len__
1111

Do you see why? Feel free to ask if not. I do not understand what behavior 
you expect from 'super'. Can you give more details on your specific use case? 

P.S. BTW, in Python 2.2+ you can replace ``new.classobj(name,bases,dic)``
with the built-in ``type(name,bases,dic)``.

-- 
 ____  __  _/_/ . 
( / / ( /  / / /  


               Michele



From martin at v.loewis.de  Wed Jul 16 00:15:54 2003
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-15?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 16 Jul 2003 06:15:54 +0200
Subject: Anyone noticed any new changes in tkinter
References: <bf29o9$nis$1@titan.btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <m3wuejm7id.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

sreekant <skodela at lithium.com> writes:

> Any ideas

This was an incompatible change in Tk 8.4.2. Either install an older
Tk version, or a new _tkinter version (e.g. Python 2.3).

Regards,
Martin




From gh at ghaering.de  Thu Jul 31 08:52:45 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 14:52:45 +0200
Subject: SQL2000 database vs python
In-Reply-To: <55939F05720D954E9602518B77F6127F02F465D5@FTWMLVEM01.e2k.ad.ge.com>
References: <55939F05720D954E9602518B77F6127F02F465D5@FTWMLVEM01.e2k.ad.ge.com>
Message-ID: <3F29111D.2080002@ghaering.de>

Raaijmakers, Vincent (IndSys, GE Interlogix) wrote:
> Can someone tell me if there is a module out for using a sql2000 database within python?
> My python application (runs on Linux) already uses mysql but now I need also to talk to a sql2000 database on another machine.
> 
> Any suggestions? www.python.org, google couldn't help me.

http://www.object-craft.com.au/projects/mssql/

-- Gerhard




From klapotec at chello.at  Fri Jul 25 17:11:33 2003
From: klapotec at chello.at (Christopher Koppler)
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 21:11:33 GMT
Subject: decimal to binary
References: <Dh9Ua.13488$Df5.327750@news1.tin.it> <200307250653.18754.gherron@islandtraining.com> <mailman.1059141458.1696.python-list@python.org> <k%eUa.24457$Za4.615290@news2.tin.it>
Message-ID: <gh63ivghg9dfr2j896j21alua6a5ani613@4ax.com>

On Fri, 25 Jul 2003 18:52:00 GMT, "manuel"
<manuelbastioniNOSPAM at tin.it> wrote:

>I use ord() to convert the value of byte in
>integer, if I don't make this, I've the ASCII
>symbol...
>
>But, for listByte[17], I must read the sequence
>of 0 and 1, because I must know the 4? and 5? bit:
>this bits specify the image origin.
>
>How I can read the 4? and 5? bit from listByte[17]?


You can use this function to generate a list of digits (least
significant first!) from any integer, with the default being the 8
binary digits of one byte (and no checking for anything):

def digitlist(value, numdigits=8, base=2):
	val = value
	digits = [0 for i in range(numdigits)]
	for i in range(numdigits):
		val, digits[i] = divmod(val, base)
	return digits

>>> digitlist(234) # binary 11101010
[0, 1, 0, 1, 0, 1, 1, 1]
>>> digitlist(39)  # binary 00100111
[1, 1, 1, 0, 0, 1, 0, 0]

Now you can easily access the 4th and 5th elements (which are probably
reversed if you needed the 4th and 5th bit most significant first)...

Hope this helps,
Christopher

--
Christopher



From news at yebu.de  Tue Jul 29 04:20:32 2003
From: news at yebu.de (Karl Scalet)
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 10:20:32 +0200
Subject: blanks embedded in python 2.3 optparse
In-Reply-To: <3f2625b7$0$24594$626a54ce@news.free.fr>
References: <3f2625b7$0$24594$626a54ce@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <bg5aol$knuk3$1@ID-141451.news.uni-berlin.de>

pascal barbedor schrieb:
> Hi
> 
> is there a way to pass a param with blank embedded with optparse ?
> (C:\Python23\Doc\lib\module-optparse.html)
> 
> 
> for instance
> prog --name=mr jones
> 

you need to quote the name like
prog --name="mr jones"

That should work

Karl




From eniac at sdf-eu.org  Tue Jul  8 13:39:48 2003
From: eniac at sdf-eu.org (Geiregat Jonas)
Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 19:39:48 +0200
Subject: anygui newbie question
References: <54omgv8rb7p08uct892h6q1qck489gvoph@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2003.07.08.17.39.44.292283@sdf-eu.org>

Op Tue, 08 Jul 2003 20:29:53 -0400, schreef Gerard C Blais:

> 
> I'm trying to learn anygui, running on Win98.  When I run backend(), I
> get mswgui.
> 
> I've typed in the first program from the manual (one button, random
> sentence in text box  on click).
> 
> Window comes up fine.  When I click the button, I get a run-time error
> and the traceback says my handler function has received an unexpected
> argument, "source".  As far as I can tell, "source" should be
> expected.
> 
> I do have a link call (link (btn, handler).
> 
> Any ideas?  Any place to look besides the on-line manual ahd Hetland's
> Practical Python?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Gerry

This has nothig to do with your question but have you given
www.wxpython.org a try it's a really great gui toolkit



From akaihola at ambi-spam-me-not-tone.com  Tue Jul 22 06:25:58 2003
From: akaihola at ambi-spam-me-not-tone.com (Antti Kaihola)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 13:25:58 +0300
Subject: Pause in a loop
In-Reply-To: <%W7Ta.10360$t92.299097@news1.tin.it>
References: <%W7Ta.10360$t92.299097@news1.tin.it>
Message-ID: <Zf8Ta.486$HC4.48@reader1.news.jippii.net>

> Eval.py is imported in main.py, but I've a loop
> in eval.py that must call a function in main.py...

The obvious solution is to move that function into another module, which 
you import in both main.py and eval.py.

Not knowing the details, this might not suit to your case...




From jjl at pobox.com  Tue Jul 29 17:57:52 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 29 Jul 2003 22:57:52 +0100
Subject: unittest problems
References: <hawkfish-F7E02E.13212328072003@tribune.sj.sys.us.xo.net>
Message-ID: <87el095733.fsf@pobox.com>

Richard Wesley <hawkfish at trustedmedianetworks.com> writes:

> I am trying to retrofit some units test into our code using the unittest 
> module.  I can get individual rewrites to work, but I am having trouble 
> writing the "one test to run them all and in the darkness bind them" 
> script.  There are two main sources of trouble:
> 
> - Test data that is stored next to the script that uses it;
> - Several levels of scripts (top/utils/tests) with tests/data scattered 
> at all levels;
> 
> Are there any good examples out there of a more complex set of tests in 
> a multilevel tree/package with attached test data?  What about standard 
> conventions for hooking stuff together (suite(), etc.)?


<http://www.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&threadm=873ci3lk2o.fsf%40pobox.com&rnum=1&prev=/groups%3Fas_q%3Dunittest%26safe%3Dimages%26ie%3DISO-8859-1%26as_uauthors%3Djjl%40pobox.com%26lr%3D%26num%3D30%26hl%3Den>

http://tinyurl.com/ig2q


John



From bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au  Mon Jul 21 21:46:12 2003
From: bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au (Ben Finney)
Date: 22 Jul 2003 11:36:12 +0950
Subject: A challenge to the ASCII proponents.
References: <mailman.1058278343.23104.python-list@python.org> <bf167a$pvt$1@panix2.panix.com> <ufzl7rdno.fsf@online.no> <3F142A58.80426AA4@hotmail.com> <2259b0e2.0307161620.4a9353f1@posting.google.com> <Xns93BB246FDDBCFJanC@213.118.75.80> <3F168011.3AEB3EFC@hotmail.com> <3F172442.2040907@v.loewis.de> <oprsg8jf1xttxc4i@news.t-online.de> <3F195CC4.D426E416@hotmail.com> <slrnbhjm31.tp.bignose-hates-spam@rose.localdomain.fake> <3F1AA450.765D07FD@hotmail.com> <slrnbhmt6t.si4.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local> <3F1BB7A3.D4223855@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <slrnbholha.h5p.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>

On Mon, 21 Jul 2003 10:51:32 +0100, Alan Kennedy wrote:
> Ben Finney wrote:
> > Expecting people to use a news reader that attempts to parse markup
> > and render the result, is like expecting people to use an email
> > reader that attempts to parse markup and render ther result.  Don't.
> 
> Solely because of technical inertia, and unwillingness to address the
> (perhaps excessive) complexity of our various communications layers,
> i.e. our own "Tower of 7-bit Babel", we're suppressing cultural
> diversity, for no technically valid reason.

Yes.  The solutions must involve a significant sociological element,
since that is a large part of the current situation.

> I personally don't have the slightest problem with reformulating NNTP
> and POP to use XML instead: In a way, I think it's almost inevitable,
> given how poor our existing "ascii" technologies are at dealing with
> i18n and l10n issues. Emails and usenet posts are all just documents
> after all.

I've no idea, though, why you keep banging on about XML for simple,
plain-text documents.  Substitute XML with UTF-8 in the above, and I
agree entirely.  This is a problem of character encodings, yet you keep
wanting to apply a heavy, structural markup solution.  That way lies
HTML/XML email, and it's totally unnecessary and unhelpful.

Email and NNTP are lightweight, freeform, unstructured document formats,
and they're good that way.  Nothing you've said so far has offered even
a pretence of a reason for abandoning freeform text formats for heavy,
markup-oriented formats.

Where character encoding is the problem, Unicode is the current best
solution.  But that in no way necessitates a markup format.

-- 
 \             "If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the |
  `\                                   precipitate."  -- Steven Wright |
_o__)                                                                  |
http://bignose.squidly.org/ 9CFE12B0 791A4267 887F520C B7AC2E51 BD41714B



From gst at gmx.at  Thu Jul 31 07:34:51 2003
From: gst at gmx.at (Guenther Starnberger)
Date: 31 Jul 2003 04:34:51 -0700
Subject: Python speed vs csharp
References: <rkdc7poiachh.1x4jtxjzaf3zo.dlg@40tude.net>
Message-ID: <e5dbf587.0307310334.6c9b5755@posting.google.com>

Mike <mike at nospam.com> wrote in message news:<rkdc7poiachh.1x4jtxjzaf3zo.dlg at 40tude.net>...

> The current execution time is acceptable, but I need to increase the
> complexity of the simulation, and will need to increase the number of data
> points by around 20X, to roughly 30 billion. This will increase the
> simulation time to over a day. Since the test case code was fairly small, I
> translated it to C and ran it. The C code runs in approximately 7.5
> seconds. That's compelling, but C isn't: part of my simulation includes a
> parser to read an input file. I put that together in a few minutes in
> Python, but there are no corresponding string or regex libraries with my C
> compiler, so converting my Python code would take far more time than I'd
> save during the resulting simulations.

just write the time critical code in C and use SWIG
(http://www.swig.org/) to generate a wrapper which allows you to call
your C function from your python code.

/gst



From sholden at holdenweb.com  Tue Jul  1 23:56:26 2003
From: sholden at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 03:56:26 GMT
Subject: Possible fix for Bug 494589 - os.path.expandvars bug
References: <3F02015F.3000903@dadsetan.com>
Message-ID: <KJsMa.363625$3n5.222564@news2.central.cox.net>

"Behrang Dadsetan" <ben at dadsetan.com> wrote ...

[...]
> For the second problem - as of now a real bug whatever we decide, I
> wrote within this comment (hereafter) a new expandvars version which
> fits the docstring documentation of dospath.py and the comments of
> ntpath.py. Sorry you will be getting no patch from me at the moment
> since sourceforge's anonymous CVS access does not like me.
[...]

If you can figure out everything you wrote about, it can't be *that* hard to
create a sourceforge account ;-).

regards
--
Steve Holden                                  http://www.holdenweb.com/
Python Web Programming                 http://pydish.holdenweb.com/pwp/






From travis at enthought.com  Sat Jul 26 18:15:17 2003
From: travis at enthought.com (Travis N. Vaught)
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 17:15:17 -0500
Subject: [ANN] SciPy 03 Workshop - Scientific Computing with Python
Message-ID: <002701c353c3$6888f4c0$0200a8c0@tvlaptop>

------------------
SciPy '03 Workshop
------------------

The SciPy '03 Workshop on Scientific Computing with Python is being held
at Cal Tech again this year.  Online registration is now available.
After last year's success, we expect another great turnout with
compelling presentations/tutorials.

It is a two day workshop held September 11-12 in Pasadena, CA.

More information may be found at:
http://www.scipy.org/site_content/scipy03 

Online registration is available at: https://www.enthought.com/scipy03 

Please register early.  Last minute registrants will have to suffer the
indignity of a handwritten name tag.

It currently looks like breakfast (bagels, etc.), lunch and supper will
be provided Thursday, and breakfast and lunch will be provided Friday.

Discussion about the workshop may be directed to the SciPy-user mailing
list (http://www.scipy.org/site_content/MailList) to which you may post
messages at scipy-user at scipy.org.


Presenters:

If you would like to present at the workshop, there are two formats:

- Lightning Talks:
Short (5-15 minute) presentations of a particular scientific problem
solved with Python.

- Presentations:
Traditional presentation format ~45 minute talks.

If you would like to present, contact Eric Jones at eric at enthought.com. 

For any other questions, please feel free to call or email Travis
Vaught: travis at enthought.com, (512)536-1057.  You can call the same
number to register via phone (Business Hours CST).

Links:

SciPy.org community site:
http://www.scipy.org

Workshop Home:
http://www.scipy.org/site_content/scipy03

Summary of last year's workshop:
http://www.scipy.org/site_content/scipy02/scipy02summary.htm






From peter at engcorp.com  Fri Jul  4 23:30:41 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 23:30:41 -0400
Subject: RTS/CTS and DTR/DTS control
References: <pan.2003.07.04.19.37.02.310028@kordik.net> <pan.2003.07.04.23.44.30.894302@kordik.net> <3F060F8D.94E47DCD@engcorp.com> <pan.2003.07.05.02.34.17.509445@kordik.net>
Message-ID: <3F064661.33614890@engcorp.com>

Mike wrote:
> 
> On Fri, 04 Jul 2003 19:36:45 -0400, Peter Hansen wrote:
> 
> > Mike wrote:
> >> > Is there a library in Python that will give me control over the
> >> > handshaking lines directly?
> 
> I actually want to control my X10 firecracker device. I have done it in
> Java (on Windows) already but now I want to do it in Python on Linux. You
> control the device by wiggling the control lines with certain patterns.

Okay, that helps.  Are there any tight timing constraints with X10?
It's been a while since I looked at the specs.  Pretty low data rate,
isn't it?

Here's a few snippets/ideas that might help get you started, if there's
nothing off the shelf:

>From inside a "SerialPort" class we've built, which is lacking 
what you need but has some pieces that might be relevant:

class SerialPort:

    def some method():
        self.port = os.open(self.portName, os.O_RDWR | os.O_NOCTTY )


    def CD(self):
        '''retrieve CD status'''
        status = fcntl.ioctl(self.port, TIOCMGET, TIOCM_zero_str)
        value = struct.unpack('I', status)[0] & TIOCM_CD
        if value > 0:
            return 1
        else:
            return 0

At the top, we have some ugly constants defined, probably grabbed from
various web pages/google searches on Linux serial ports:

-------------
# The following may be Linux specific
TIOCM_CD = 0x040
TIOCM_CAR = 0x040
TIOCMGET = 0x5415
TIOCMSET = 0x5418

# The following is  used to convert between C's long to Python's int.
TIOCM_zero_str = struct.pack('I', 0)
-------------

A quick search again with Google using TIOCMSET and TIOCM_CTS and a bunch
of others finally led to this, which might be the best yet, and includes
some constant definitions that might let you get something working, if
this doesn't directly solve your problem:

http://sparc.dnsalias.net/Python_stuff/PosixSerial.py

Good luck!

-Peter



From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sat Jul 19 20:18:07 2003
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 19 Jul 2003 20:18:07 -0400
Subject: Volunteers need more visibility (was Re: www.python.org hacked?)
References: <5cf68ce0.0307141017.1f3fe18e@posting.google.com> <3F12FA18.B04B400E@engcorp.com> <bev3dj$f15$1@panix2.panix.com> <3F131F69.8FD9B8DD@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <bfcn3v$glv$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <3F131F69.8FD9B8DD at engcorp.com>,
Peter Hansen  <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:
>
>Thanks then to Aahz, Skip, Thomas, and anyone else involved.  I think we
>should find a place to give more visible credit to the many people
>involved in handling with such things.  I had no idea so many people
>who regularly contribute here were also the ones who step in to resolve
>such problems, or who manage the day-to-day updates and additions.  
>And obviously this is a very distributed effort, unless you all happen
>to be roommates. ;-)

Nope, we're even on separate continents.

>To add to the workload then :-), but also perhaps to help inspire 
>additional people to volunteer and share the load, I suggest adding a 
>reasonably prominent page to www.python.org with a quick summary of who 
>helps run the site, or other community efforts, and perhaps something
>like a one-sentence bio to give a bit more of a face to some of the
>lesser known folks.

Enh.  Maybe, but I'm too tired/busy to think about it.  What I suggest
is that anyone who has an interest in how the web site is set up join
the site design list at
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pydotorg-redesign

(This is a discussion list, not a list for the people doing the
maintenance work.)
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

This is Python.  We don't care much about theory, except where it intersects 
with useful practice.  --Aahz



From sybrenUSE at YOURthirdtower.imagination.com  Tue Jul 15 03:43:27 2003
From: sybrenUSE at YOURthirdtower.imagination.com (Sybren Stuvel)
Date: 15 Jul 2003 07:43:27 GMT
Subject: PyQT, Sharp Zaurus and color in the QTextBrowser
References: <slrnbh60lj.3jm.sybrenUSE@sybren.thirdtower.com> <mailman.1058214925.28095.python-list@python.org> <3F132103.4D18759F@engcorp.com> <mailman.1058220622.19636.python-list@python.org> <pan.2003.07.14.23.07.15.471632@jerf.org>
Message-ID: <slrnbh7c4v.576.sybrenUSE@sybren.thirdtower.com>

Jeremy Bowers enlightened us with:
> The confusion probably stems from the fact that as of the latest XHTML
> specification at the time I read it, every single example XHTML
> fragment used double quotes. At no point is it ever specified either
> way in the XHTML specification, except by reference to the XML
> specification.

Got a point there. I use single quotes all the time thouhg, in HTML generated
in PHP:

<?php
	echo "<span class='$class'>$msg</span>"
?>

It's a lot better than something I otHften see in other people's code:

	echo "<span class=\"$class\">$msg</span>"

Doing it the other way around doesn't work, since PHP doesn't do
variable substitution between single quotes. 

Sybren
-- 
The problem with the world is stupidity. Not saying there should be a
capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the
safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself? 



From bdesth.nospam at removeme.free.fr  Sat Jul 19 12:26:46 2003
From: bdesth.nospam at removeme.free.fr (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 18:26:46 +0200
Subject: List of declared variables in interactive Python session?
In-Reply-To: <pNdSa.397$Y5.120@nntpserver.swip.net>
References: <pNdSa.397$Y5.120@nntpserver.swip.net>
Message-ID: <3f196f8b$0$23859$626a54ce@news.free.fr>

Fredrik Fornwall wrote:
> Hello.
> 
> Is there a way to list all the declared variables in an interactive 
> Python session?
> 

I'm not sure this is exactly what you're looking for, but you could try 
with dir() or globals().

HTH
Bruno




From frank at chagford.com  Mon Jul 14 15:13:38 2003
From: frank at chagford.com (Frank Millman)
Date: 14 Jul 2003 12:13:38 -0700
Subject: Business model for Open Source - advice wanted
References: <246a4e07.0307100613.fc2fc50@posting.google.com> <55EPa.8760$R92.7900@news2.central.cox.net>
Message-ID: <246a4e07.0307132345.5b5f576@posting.google.com>

"David M. Cook" <davecook at nowhere.net> wrote in message news:<55EPa.8760$R92.7900 at news2.central.cox.net>...
> In article <246a4e07.0307100613.fc2fc50 at posting.google.com>, Frank Millman
> wrote:
> 
> > I would like some advice, and I hope that the good people on c.l.p
> > will give me the benefit of their experience.
> 
> I was going to point you to this talk on "partnership" billing:
> 
> http://www.sdphp.net/node.php?id=10
> 
> but I'm having problems unzipping it under Linux, myself; maybe it's OK
> under windows.
> 
> Dave Cook

Nope - it will not unzip under Windows either - it seems that it is
not a valid zip file. Thanks anyway.

Frank Millman



From irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl  Fri Jul 18 09:39:17 2003
From: irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 15:39:17 +0200
Subject: feature request: a better str.endswith
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1058530829.7072.python-list@python.org>
References: <2259b0e2.0307180401.5dae02f2@posting.google.com> <mailman.1058530829.7072.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3f17f883$0$49107$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

Jp Calderone wrote:
> On Fri, Jul 18, 2003 at 05:01:47AM -0700, Michele Simionato wrote:
> 
>>I often feel the need to extend  the string method ".endswith" to tuple
>>arguments, in such a way to automatically check for multiple endings.
>>For instance, here is a typical use case:
>>
>>if filename.endswith(('.jpg','.jpeg','.gif','.png')):
>>    print "This is a valid image file"
>>
>>Currently this is not valid Python and I must use the ugly
>>
>>if filename.endswith('.jpg') or filename.endswith('.jpeg') \
>>   or filename.endswith('.gif') or filename.endswith('.png'):
>>    print "This is a valid image file"
> 
> 
>     extensions = ('.jpg', '.jpeg', '.gif', '.png')
>     if filter(filename.endswith, extensions):
>         print "This is a valid image file
> 
>   Jp
> 

Using filter Michele's original statement becomes:

if filter(filename.endswith, ('.jpg','.jpeg','.gif','.png')):
     print "This is a valid image file"

IMHO this is simple enough to not require a change to the
.endswith method...

--Irmen




From rmunn at pobox.com  Fri Jul 18 10:30:41 2003
From: rmunn at pobox.com (Robin Munn)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 14:30:41 GMT
Subject: A few beginning questions
References: <3f129a8a$1@mail.hmgcc.gov.uk> <2259b0e2.0307140930.4b3c43a5@posting.google.com> <ptkdj863.fsf@python.net>
Message-ID: <slrnbhg160.1sg.rmunn@localhost.localdomain>

Thomas Heller <theller at python.net> wrote:
> mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato) writes:
> 
>> "richardc" <richardc at hmgcc.gov.uk> wrote in message news:<3f129a8a$1 at mail.hmgcc.gov.uk>...
>>> Ive just started playing with Python and have a couple of questions.
>>> 
>>> Im looking for an agument parsing library (from the command line), Ive come
>>> across optik and argtools.  What other ones are there are any of them any
>>> good, is there a 'standard' lib for doing this.
>>>
>>
>> optparse (a.k.a. optik) is great, whereas I never made my mind up to
>> getopt. To "cure" getopt, I needed to define my own routines for
>> argument parsing; after I started using optparse I had the satisfaction
>> of erasing all of them ;)
> 
> I have not yet tried optparse. Is it able to parse Windows' style
> command lines (use '/' instead of '-', ignore case of command line
> options, use long options with a single '-' or '/')?
> 
> Thomas

No. From the optparse documentation:

    Some other option syntaxes that the world has seen include:

    + a hyphen followed by a few letters, e.g. -pf (this is not the same
      as multiple options merged into a single argument.)
    + a hyphen followed by a whole word, e.g. -file (this is technically
      equivalent to the previous syntax, but they aren't usually seen in
      the same program.)
    + a plus sign followed by a single letter, or a few letters, or a
      word, e.g. +f, +rgb.
    + a slash followed by a letter, or a few letters, or a word, e.g.
      /f, /file.

    optparse does not support these option syntaxes, and it never will.
    (If you really want to use one of those option syntaxes, you'll have
    to subclass OptionParser and override all the difficult bits. But
    please don't!  optparse does things the traditional Unix/GNU way
    deliberately; the first three are non-standard anywhere, and the
    last one makes sense only if you're exclusively targeting
    MS-DOS/Windows and/or VMS.)

(This is from http://www.python.org/doc/2.3b2/lib/optparse-terminology.html)

Is Windows-style arguments (with slashes) *that* important to you?
Because there's absolutely nothing wrong with following the standard
that's been established for over twenty years... :-)

-- 
Robin Munn <rmunn at pobox.com> | http://www.rmunn.com/ | PGP key 0x6AFB6838
-----------------------------+-----------------------+----------------------
"Remember, when it comes to commercial TV, the program is not the product.
YOU are the product, and the advertiser is the customer." - Mark W. Schumann



From hwlgw at hotmail.com  Thu Jul  3 10:47:33 2003
From: hwlgw at hotmail.com (Will Stuyvesant)
Date: 3 Jul 2003 07:47:33 -0700
Subject: XML Validation with Python
References: <cb035744.0307020901.472c3573@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <cb035744.0307030647.3aed82b6@posting.google.com>

I could not find a solution using the Python Standard
Libraries to write a simple commandline utility to do
XML validation.  And I found the xml.sax documentation
unclear, there are no good examples to look at.  Also
in the Python Cookbook and in the Python in a Nutshell
book the XML examples are BAD.  There is nowhere a
motivation for the class library design, for example
"why do you need a handler in a xml.sax.parse() and why
is there no default handler", nor simple examples how
to use it.  I like the approach taken by the Python
Standard Library book by Fredrik Lundh MUCH more: clear
examples and explanations.  A damn shame they do not
want a new edition at O'Reilly, the poor guy is now
putting a free version on his website.

I have found a solution for XML validation using the
3rd party pyRXP library from http://www.reportlab.com/xml/pyrxp.html
Their "download and install" info is a mess, I 
downloaded first a .ZIP with
only .DLL and .PYD files and it turned out you had to
plunk that into C:\Python22\DLL.  This made me turn
away from pyRXP initially because bad installation
usually means bad software.  But later on I found a
bigger .ZIP with more stuff so maybe I should've used
that one?  At least it works now.  I can do "import
pyRXP".  Make sure you also download
pyRXP_Documentation.pdf.  This is good documentation
with examples.  I notice the docs in the other big .ZIP
are in .RML format...whatever that is!

I can not believe the amount of bad documentation and
bad install approaches I see with 3rd party software.
That is why I normally stick to Python Standard Library
only.

Anyway, I can now do XML validation, below is
"validate.py".  But I am not solving my initial
problem: if it validates, then validate.py prints
nothing, if there is a mistake then it prints an error
message.  What I really wanted; giving more confidence
that the validation is okay; is to print 1 or 0
depending on the result, but I have not figured out yet
how to do that and now I am too tired of it all...

# file: validate.py
import sys
if len(sys.argv)<2 or sys.argv[1] in ['-h','--help','/?']: 
    print 'Usage: validate.py xmlfilename'
    sys.exit()
import pyRXP
p = pyRXP.Parser()
fn=open(sys.argv[1], 'r').read()
p.parse(fn)



From max at alcyone.com  Thu Jul 10 00:00:15 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 21:00:15 -0700
Subject: A story about Python... sort of
References: <mailman.1057554011.6652.python-list@python.org> <mailman.1057601112.30635.python-list@python.org> <O8lOa.805$sY2.237@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net> <wz3chgep96.fsf@nono.cs.uu.nl> <beintd$5kqlt$1@ID-169208.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <3F0CE4CF.2398AE8C@alcyone.com>

"Greg Ewing (using news.cis.dfn.de)" wrote:

> Hmmm. So, if the universe is open and contains an infinite
> amount of matter, then we could solve chess eventually,
> but we might have to wait a while for the limits of the
> observable universe to expand sufficiently...

The problem is the heat death ultimately puts a limit on how much
computation you can do, at least per unit volume.  Lightspeed delays
might put some dampers on the amount of a single, coherent distributed
computation you could possibly do, since you have a finite amount of
computation per unit volume possible so you need to distribute, but you
need to transmit and collect those results around at only lightspeed.

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ There are countless planets, like many island Earths ...
\__/  Konstantin Tsiolkovsky



From pete at fenelon.com  Thu Jul  3 14:28:17 2003
From: pete at fenelon.com (Pete Fenelon)
Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 18:28:17 -0000
Subject: Collective memory
References: <mailman.1057083728.8224.python-list@python.org> <vg88va53uha8e@corp.supernews.com> <1057243309.793889@saucer.planet.gong> <vg8hns2u0l4off@corp.supernews.com> <1057251216.551262@saucer.planet.gong>
Message-ID: <vg8te1l8d9tace@corp.supernews.com>

In alt.folklore.computers Rupert Pigott <roo at dark-try-removing-this-boong.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> I noticed that a few of the KDE 3.1 editors support folding... :)

Hmmmm, editor and GUI are two concepts that I try to keep firmly
separated ;)

pete
-- 
pete at fenelon.com "there's no room for enigmas in built-up areas" HMHB




From skip at pobox.com  Wed Jul  2 16:17:02 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 15:17:02 -0500
Subject: Possible fix for Bug 494589 - os.path.expandvars bug
In-Reply-To: <3F032161.7000108@dadsetan.com>
References: <KJsMa.363625$3n5.222564@news2.central.cox.net>
        <3F02015F.3000903@dadsetan.com>
        <mailman.1057150565.22876.python-list@python.org>
        <3F032161.7000108@dadsetan.com>
Message-ID: <16131.15806.215814.555138@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    Behrang> I there a way for me to get a SSH CVS access?
    Behrang> Or will someone make/submit the patch for me?

Martin v. L?wis is making nightly snapshots of the CVS tree:

    http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-June/036609.html

With that, you could create a "good enough" context diff and submit a patch
on Sourceforge.

Skip




From harry.g.george at boeing.com  Wed Jul 23 15:09:47 2003
From: harry.g.george at boeing.com (Harry George)
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 19:09:47 GMT
Subject: Design tool
References: <3f1e985d$0$236@hades.is.co.za>
Message-ID: <xqxy8yprres.fsf@cola2.ca.boeing.com>

Tertius <tcronj at ananzi.co.za> writes:

> Can anyone suggest a favorite, design/Case/UML Tool used by the open
> source community? (in particular the Python community)
> 
Personally, I use Dia:
http://www.lysator.liu.se/~alla/dia/

Some people use argo (which I find slow).  tcm is another candidate --
lots of capability but tiny fonts and hard to grab the label handles
last time I tried it.

> Thanks,
> Tertius
> 

-- 
harry.g.george at boeing.com
6-6M31 Knowledge Management
Phone: (425) 342-5601



From elainejackson7355 at home.com  Sat Jul 12 14:39:25 2003
From: elainejackson7355 at home.com (Elaine Jackson)
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 18:39:25 GMT
Subject: new in town
References: <AeVPa.445271$Vi5.11496890@news1.calgary.shaw.ca> <mailman.1058024839.27499.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <xBYPa.418026$3C2.11372267@news3.calgary.shaw.ca>

As comforting as it is to know that there are "several ways of doing this", I'd
be even happier if I knew the name of just one of those ways. The FAQ searcher
doesn't seem to understand lengthy explanations and hand-waving.

Gerhard H?ring <gh at ghaering.de> wrote in message
news:mailman.1058024839.27499.python-list at python.org...
| Elaine Jackson wrote:
| > Can Python be compiled? [...]
|
| That depends on your definition of "compiled". If you mean that machine
| language can be constructed without any interpreter involved, then the
| answer is no.
|
| If you want a way to make a Python application not depend on an
| installed interpreter, then there are several ways to do this.
|
| This and many more of your questions to come will be answered by the
| Python FAQ, btw: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw.py
|
| -- Gerhard
|





From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sun Jul  6 12:56:15 2003
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 6 Jul 2003 12:56:15 -0400
Subject: Threading issue:  [Error 9]: bad file descriptor
References: <KaQNa.394960$Vi5.10189553@news1.calgary.shaw.ca>
Message-ID: <be9kbf$n1a$1@panix2.panix.com>

In article <KaQNa.394960$Vi5.10189553 at news1.calgary.shaw.ca>,
Kevin <other at cazabon.com> wrote:
>
>Has anyone else run into random IOErrors ([Error 9] bad file
>descriptor) in multi-threaded Python apps?
>
>The app I'm running into this with (once in a while... not really
>repeatable predictably) is using 3 threads, and I'm using locks around
>all shared objects.  The error seems to be happening mostly when I'm
>trying to delete a temporary file that was originally created by a
>different thread.

Sounds like the problem isn't locking per se, but lack of
synchronization.  The simple answer: never use an external object in
multiple threads.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"Not everything in life has a clue in front of it...."  --JMS



From bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au  Mon Jul 21 05:15:46 2003
From: bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au (Ben Finney)
Date: 21 Jul 2003 19:05:46 +0950
Subject: A challenge to the ASCII proponents.
References: <mailman.1058278343.23104.python-list@python.org> <bf167a$pvt$1@panix2.panix.com> <ufzl7rdno.fsf@online.no> <3F142A58.80426AA4@hotmail.com> <2259b0e2.0307161620.4a9353f1@posting.google.com> <Xns93BB246FDDBCFJanC@213.118.75.80> <3F168011.3AEB3EFC@hotmail.com> <60dfb6f6.0307201951.4eea1930@posting.google.com> <bffpmt$gu8$2@newsreader.mailgate.org>
Message-ID: <slrnbhmrfr.si4.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>

On Mon, 21 Jul 2003 16:20:48 +1200, Mark Hadfield wrote:
> I hope you won't think if I'm a spoilsport in pointing out that it
> fails the "everybody" test, as many people use proportional fonts in
> their news readers.

*All* solutions fail the "everybody" test.  Newsreaders use the NNTP
protocol, which (IIRC) only requires 7-bit ASCII.  (Regardless, most
newsreaders only expect 7-bit ASCII, and sometimes implement 8-bit in
inconsistent ways).

"International characters" and "everybody" are, at present, incompatible
criteria.

-- 
 \         "Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur."  ("Whatever is |
  `\                   said in Latin, sounds profound.")  -- Anonymous |
_o__)                                                                  |
http://bignose.squidly.org/ 9CFE12B0 791A4267 887F520C B7AC2E51 BD41714B



From ianb at colorstudy.com  Thu Jul 10 14:47:25 2003
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: 10 Jul 2003 13:47:25 -0500
Subject: Sample Web application
In-Reply-To: <u_ucnTmf55NP4pCiRTvUqA@speakeasy.net>
References: <mailman.1057574470.1750.python-list@python.org>
	 <kmolgv4mp12o71ocion7ra0m2s9fcrqjdk@4ax.com>
	 <begc78$rui$1@mawar.singnet.com.sg> <VLicnfImRJLPkpGiRTvUqA@speakeasy.net>
	 <behc69$o3t$1@news1.wdf.sap-ag.de>
	 <mailman.1057772055.6056.python-list@python.org>
	 <tYqcnZji2bzS5ZGiRTvUqg@speakeasy.net>
	 <mailman.1057801994.30346.python-list@python.org>
	 <u_ucnTmf55NP4pCiRTvUqA@speakeasy.net>
Message-ID: <1057862845.9505.1262.camel@lothlorien>

On Thu, 2003-07-10 at 10:01, A.M. Kuchling wrote:
> On 09 Jul 2003 20:53:17 -0500, 
> 	Ian Bicking <ianb at colorstudy.com> wrote:
> > But more generally, I can't stand writing about how to work around
> > problems, when (as a programmer) it is within my power to fix those
> > problems.  It seems far better to spend time fixing problems than merely
> > documenting them.
> 
> I don't believe it's possible to fix the installation problems.  Quixote
> works with Apache, IIS, AOLserver, Medusa, and Twisted; there seems nothing 
> that can be done to simplify things across that entire range.  

Well, it wasn't Quixote I was talking about.  It was more things like
jonpy (with wt templates, specifically), or Spyce, and in general the
frameworks that were more closely tied to Apache, and to non-standard
configuration (Albatross, in contrast, uses plain CGI scripts, so
configuration was easy).

So of course installation can be improved.  Quixote works with all those
environments, Webware should do it exactly the same, JOTWeb should do it
the same, etc.  Some of these systems are (close to) as flexible as
Quixote for deployment, most aren't anywhere close.  Also, the work that
goes into installing one system is usually not helpful when installing
another.  Not only should all the frameworks be similarly flexible, but
they should *do it in the same way*.

> It can be made easier in one particular case, of course.  For example, 
> setting up an SCGI application with Apache requires three steps:
> 
> 	1) Compile mod_scgi and install it.  (On Debian unstable, 
> 	   you can install it with apt-get.
> 	2) Add a directive to httpd.conf and restart:
> 	   <Location "/appurl">
>               SCGIServer 127.0.0.1 6500
>               SCGIHandler On
>            </Location>
> 	3) Run the SCGI application so that it listens to port 6500.

mod_skunkweb, for instance, has a few more features than mod_scgi or
mod_webkit for failure conditions (if the backend application
disappears), though both have more than mod_scgi, and mod_webkit has
something for handling files by extension as well.

These features do make it a little more complicated, but they solve
particular problems, and reducing duplication would help us all.  All
three protocols (mod_scgi, mod_skunkweb, and mod_webkit) do almost
exactly the same thing.  And then there's FastCGI...

> The Dulcinea package (http://www.mems-exchange.org/software/dulcinea/)
> includes scripts for running multiple web sites on a machine and easily
> configuring them, but that's a feature that isn't being pushed very
> strongly, and we made little effort to make this feature usable by
> outsiders.

Which portions are you referring to?  None of the modules you describe
in the overview seem to apply.

  Ian






From rdsteph at earthlink.net  Sun Jul  6 21:37:15 2003
From: rdsteph at earthlink.net (Ron Stephens)
Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 01:37:15 GMT
Subject: Merlin, a fun little program
Message-ID: <3F08CFDF.6050603@earthlink.net>

I posted to my web site a fun little program called merlin.py today. 
Please keep in mind that I am a hobbyist and this is just a little hack, 
if you look at the code you will see that it is still possible to write 
spaghetti code, even with Python. I apologize, and I do intend to clean 
up the code, but it may take awhile. For now it works, with some bugs.

It is a composite of a few scripts. The first, based on a script Max M 
uploaded to this newsgroup a while ago (2 years?), is a web scraper 
based multiple choice guesser. I re-wrote the web scraper to use Yahoo 
rather than Google, as Google somehow recognizes it as a script now and 
so has disabled the ability to use Google, as they say it violates their 
terms of service. I certainly do not want to violate anyone's terms of 
service, this is a just a fun little script. I also used string 
functions instead of regexes and an algorithm of my own.  Kudos to David 
Mertz' Text Processing in Python for helping me figure out how to do 
this, indirectly. (BTW, I also posted a review of his new book on my web 
site...and submitted it to Slashdot, but  one never knows if they will 
run it).

The stand alone version of the web scraper (askMerlin.py) uses NLQ, a 
natural query language class found on the web at 
http://gurno.com/adam/nlq/ to identify possible answers to a user's's 
questions, to then be submitted to the main algorithm to choose amongst 
the possible answers, which I call options. Of course, the program is 
much more likely to be accurate when you give it a correct "option" to 
be picked out from amongst several incorrect options that you also give 
it; and in fact a bug in the composite program I call Merlin ( 
merlin.py) crashes completely if you do not give it any options; but 
this can be fixed. askMerlin.py doesn't crash and uses NLQ, but gives 
poor answers. However, I have a much better algorithm in mind for this 
part of the program; instead of giving NLQ the main response page from a 
  query, I will give it the first "link" page from a query, which I 
reckon to be much more likely to contain keywords that represent good 
possible answers. Alas, this may have to wait until the next long 
weekend, unless someone else takes up the task ;-)))

In the long run, the program is much more interesting using NLQ to find 
answers to questions where the user offers no possible answers to choose 
amongst or other clues; I think this has potential.

For now, please give Merlin options to choose amongst. Then, I include a 
slightly improved Decision Analysis script, and two fun variations or 
specific applications of it. This script has the virtue of being my own 
creation, although I did recieve help from Paul Winkler and others on 
this list.

Then I also include a script shamelessly stolen off the web that will be 
instantly recognizable to most of you on this newsgroup, but perhaps not 
to some newbies.

I have in mind more such fun stuff to be added.

Also, I intend to do a full GUI version, with a much better user 
interface, and then to create executable installers for Windows, Linux, 
and Mac OS X. For now  though, the command line interface has the 
advatage of working anywhere one can get a Python command prompt; I have 
tested it on Windows, Linux, Mac OS X and the Sharp Zaurus PDA. The 
additon of a GUI and creation of executable files should keep this 
hobbyist busy for a while ;-)))

A GUI version of Decision Analysis, that I wrote using PythonCard, is 
available already.

All of the above can wait until I add more fun stuff to it, make it 
better, fix bugs,  move it from the deprecated regex to the re module, 
and clean up the code!

OK, so this hack may not be worth all the words I've given it, but, in 
the spirit of computer programming for everybody, I am pleased that I am 
producing something. I think it might be something other newbies might 
be able to understand and hack on also, since it is so simple.

If not, so be it. I am having fun.

All of this is on my web site, right at the top, at 
http://www.awaretek.com/plf.html

Ron Stephens





From p at ulmcnett.com  Fri Jul  4 13:38:56 2003
From: p at ulmcnett.com (Paul McNett)
Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 10:38:56 -0700
Subject: pyBoards.com
In-Reply-To: <840592e1.0307040900.14e3e668@posting.google.com>
References: <191e20c8.0307031711.42d4e46b@posting.google.com> <3f054d9a$0$13803$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net> <840592e1.0307040900.14e3e668@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <200307041038.56088.p@ulmcnett.com>

Hannu Kankaanp?? writes:

> Message boards are more user friendly, better organized (big
> plus) and more interactive. At least when I post here from
> Google Groups, it takes 3-6 hours for the message to arrive
> :P. Many questions thus are answered 5 times by different
> people. But I don't know if the messages would arrive quicker
> if I used a mail program for posting.

Yes, using a mail program, I see responses immediately (within a 
couple minutes usually).

-- 
Paul McNett




From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Tue Jul 29 12:00:38 2003
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 29 Jul 2003 12:00:38 -0400
Subject: Casting stones (was Re: Debugging Python ?)
References: <mailman.1059409013.10134.python-list@python.org> <84fc4588.0307290453.52671e11@posting.google.com> <bg5v9t$lt$1@panix1.panix.com> <3F268802.BDB26B67@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <bg65n6$2bs$1@panix2.panix.com>

In article <3F268802.BDB26B67 at hotmail.com>,
Alan Kennedy  <alanmk at hotmail.com> wrote:
>Aahz wrote:
>>
>> Top-posting is more annoying IMO.
>
>However, there is a down side: it makes it impossible to get
>meaningful summaries of a posters posting history on Google Groups.

To the extent that's an issue (and I don't necessarily agree that it is
an issue), I consider that Google's fault for not writing software that
accounts for quoting.  If/when they fix their software, that solves the
issue from your perspective; in the meantime, we get easier-to-read
threads in realtime.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

This is Python.  We don't care much about theory, except where it intersects 
with useful practice.  --Aahz



From daniel.nouri at con-fuse.org  Fri Jul  4 12:19:29 2003
From: daniel.nouri at con-fuse.org (Daniel Nouri)
Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 16:19:29 GMT
Subject: 'self' disappearing
Message-ID: <oprrsnmr1wjjo9mx@news.chello.at>

The idea of my simple piece of code is to start from a given module and 
wrap all functions and methods in that module and submodules. FunWrapper is 
the class that I use for wrapping.

The last two calls of main() in module bla are of interest. While the first 
'foo.bar(c)' works as expected, i.e. prints 'Hello from foo.bar' and 
'Calling bar', the second call bails out with:

  File "seque.py", line 9, in __call__
    self.fun(*args, **kwds)
TypeError: bar() takes exactly 1 argument (0 given)

It appears that 'instance.method()' is not the same as 
'klass.method(instance)' in this case. But why? And how do I deal with 
that?


---bla.py---

def a():
    print 'Hello from A'

def b():
    print 'Hello from B'

class foo:

    def bar(self):
        print 'Hello from foo.bar'

    def baz(self):
        print 'Hello from foo.baz'

def main():
    a()
    b()
    c = foo()
    foo.bar(c) #works
    c.bar() #raises TypeError (0 arguments given)

---seque.py---

import types

class FunWrapper:
    def __init__(self, fun):
        self.fun = fun

    def __call__(self, *args, **kwds):
        print 'Calling', self.fun.__name__
        self.fun(*args, **kwds)

def _traverse(object):
    for (name, obj) in object.__dict__.items():
        mytype = type(obj)

        if mytype in (types.FunctionType, types.UnboundMethodType):
            wrapper = FunWrapper(obj)
            object.__dict__[name] = wrapper

        elif mytype in (types.ModuleType, types.ClassType):
            _traverse(obj)


def seque(module, fun):
    _traverse(module)
    module.__dict__[fun]()


if __name__ == '__main__':
    import bla
    seque(bla, 'main')



From donn at u.washington.edu  Wed Jul  9 15:29:43 2003
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 12:29:43 -0700
Subject: Deleting specific characters from a string
References: <begfb3$7j6$1@online.de> <5ab0af73.0307091044.254f5aab@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <donn-5F0489.12294309072003@nntp2.u.washington.edu>

In article <5ab0af73.0307091044.254f5aab at posting.google.com>,
 MatthewS at HeyAnita.com (Matt Shomphe) wrote:

> Maybe a new method should be added to the str class, called "remove". 
> It would take a list of characters and remove them from the string:

Check out the translate function - that's what its optional
deletions argument is for.

   Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu



From fredrik at pythonware.com  Thu Jul 10 18:18:44 2003
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 00:18:44 +0200
Subject: Deleting specific characters from a string
References: <1057847111.3f0d77471178b@mcherm.com> <bek746$amt$1@main.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <bekon4$ecj$1@main.gmane.org>

Fredrik Lundh wrote:

> if you precompile the regexp, p.sub(text, "") is nearly as fast as the
> translate method under 2.3.  ymmv.

mmmv, too.  it's "p.sub("", text)", and it was a (different) flaw in
my test script.  if you want performance, use "translate".

</F>







From cjw at sympatico.ca  Wed Jul 30 15:30:12 2003
From: cjw at sympatico.ca (Colin J. Williams)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 15:30:12 -0400
Subject: PEP 209 - Multi-dimensional Arrays
Message-ID: <3F281CC4.70408@sympatico.ca>

This PEP was written 30 or more months ago.  It appears to set out 
design objectives for
what is becoming numarray.

The original ArrayType and Array seem to have become NDArray and 
NumArray/ComplexArray
respectively.

The use of __init__ seems to have been deprecated in favour of factory 
functions.

The numarray pdf file gives a good picture of numarray, but it is 
difficult to link
into the main Python documentation, which is HTML oriented.

Is there any intention to update the roadmap for numaray in the light of 
later
experience or is this still the design direction?

Colin W.




From tvassila at siac.com  Thu Jul 17 15:31:00 2003
From: tvassila at siac.com (Thanos Vassilakis)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 15:31:00 -0400
Subject: html tags and webpages
Message-ID: <OFBD0FA0A9.21003940-ON85256D66.006AF0CD-85256D66.006B75F9@nsmtp.siac.com>

The problem you will have is HTMLParser is not great at getting the CDATA
or PCDATA - thats the stuff between the tags.

Try pso http://sourceforge.net/projects/pso/




|---------+---------------------------------------------->
|         |           Rene Pijlman                       |
|         |           <reply.in.the.newsgroup at my.address.|
|         |           is.invalid>                        |
|         |           Sent by:                           |
|         |           python-list-admin at python.org       |
|         |                                              |
|         |                                              |
|         |           07/17/2003 02:43 PM                |
|         |                                              |
|---------+---------------------------------------------->
  >------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
  |                                                                                                                              |
  |       To:       python-list at python.org                                                                                       |
  |       cc:       (bcc: Thanos Vassilakis/SIAC)                                                                                |
  |       Subject:  Re: html tags and webpages                                                                                   |
  >------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|




jeff:
>Basically what i want to do is create a script in python that will
>look at a website and pull off a certain type of html tag and anything
>contained within them tags,

This is what you need:
http://www.python.org/doc/2.2.3/lib/module-urllib.html
http://www.python.org/doc/2.2.3/lib/module-HTMLParser.html

--
Ren? Pijlman
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list






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From vegard at mail.com  Mon Jul  7 07:18:59 2003
From: vegard at mail.com (Vegard Bakke)
Date: 7 Jul 2003 04:18:59 -0700
Subject: Will Python exceptions be documented?
Message-ID: <33a013af.0307070318.73013d4@posting.google.com>

>From whet I can see, Python documentation is lacking a very important
piece of information.  Very few functions have documented what
exceptions they raise, and under what cicumstances.  Is this a task on
the schedule?


In my opinion, every function that might raise an exception should
state so explicitly in the documentation, even uncaught exceptions
from a subfunction.

I have seen many different examples for catching exceptions from
open(). Which is the right one?

The error from function math.log(0) is a by unpredictable, but at
least that is documentet.  What about all the others? math.asin(2),
shutil, os, sys?

All know that asin(2) is wrong, but how do I know that ValueError is
the exception I should catch, and how do I know that is the only one?
(Sorry, try it is the wrong answere here.)


My other issue with is concerning the documentation of the exceptions
themselves. How can I find out that I can use 'filename', 'errno' and
'strerror' for the exception IOError without having to use
dir(IOError())?  And is it valid in all versions/platforms?



Since I'm critisising the lack of work, I will voulunteer to help out
with the process. But I will need some guidance and pointers in the
beginning.


Python is too good to have a B+ documentation.  We can do better.


Cheers,
Vegard


-- 
Vegard Bakke

My spelling is wobbly. It's good spelling, but it 
wobbles, and the letters get it the wrong places.
                                  Winnie the Pooh
:wq



From hokiegal99 at hotmail.com  Thu Jul 17 21:33:42 2003
From: hokiegal99 at hotmail.com (hokiegal99)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 21:33:42 -0400
Subject: using functions and file renaming problem
Message-ID: <3F174E76.4000302@hotmail.com>

A few questions about the following code. How would I "wrap" this in a 
function, and do I need to?

Also, how can I make the code smart enough to realize that when a file 
has 2 or more bad charcters in it, that the code needs to run until all 
bad characters are gone? For example, if a file has the name 
"<bad*mac\file" the program has to run 3 times to get all three bad 
chars out of the file name.

The passes look like this:

1. <bad*mac\file becomes -bad*mac\file
2. -bad*mac\file becomes -bad-mac\file
3. -bad-mac\file becomes -bad-mac-file

I think the problem is that once the program finds a bad char in a 
filename it replaces it with a dash, which creates a new filename that 
wasn't present when the program first ran, thus it has to run again to 
see the new filename.

import os, re, string
bad = re.compile(r'%2f|%25|[*?<>/\|\\]') #search for these.
print " "
setpath = raw_input("Path to the dir that you would like to clean: ")
print " "
print "--- Remove Bad Charaters From Filenames ---"
print " "
for root, dirs, files in os.walk(setpath):
     for file in files:
         badchars = bad.findall(file)
         newfile = ''
         for badchar in badchars:
             newfile = file.replace(badchar,'-') #replace bad chars.
         if newfile:
             newpath = os.path.join(root,newfile)
             oldpath = os.path.join(root,file)
             os.rename(oldpath,newpath)
	    print oldpath
	    print newpath
print " "
print "--- Done ---"
print " "




From max at alcyone.com  Thu Jul 24 01:19:07 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 22:19:07 -0700
Subject: file.close()
References: <edITa.131868$Ph3.17333@sccrnsc04> <3F1F5297.15D768EF@alcyone.com> <slrnbhukr8.13c.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local> <3F1F5CB2.7FB4C205@alcyone.com> <slrnbhunuo.13c.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>
Message-ID: <3F1F6C4B.BE9CCA25@alcyone.com>

Ben Finney wrote:

> This doesn't match Bryan's nested structure above, which you blessed
> as
> not "overkill" (in his words).  It was this that I considered a
> poorly-scaling structure, or "overkill" since only one 'try' block is
> required.  Do you disagree?

It uses try/finally to secure the closing of many files in a timely
manner.  In that sense, it certainly fits the pattern.  It doesn't have
the same nested pattern, but try/finally isn't at issue here.  If you
had code which opened 50 files and looked like:

	fileOne = file(...)
	fileTwo = file(...)
	fileThree = file(...)
	...
	fileFortyNine = file(...)
	fileFifty = file(...)

I would say you are doing something wrong.  A more systematic handling
of many, many files is indicated whether or not you're using the
try/finally idiom to ensure files get closed in a timely manner.

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ Together we can take this one day at a time
\__/  Sweetbox



From mwh at python.net  Mon Jul 14 06:38:21 2003
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 10:38:21 GMT
Subject: anything like C++ references?
References: <000301c348c7$3c501980$21795418@dell1700> <mailman.1058050638.14404.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7h3n0fho0w1.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>

Ian Bicking <ianb at colorstudy.com> writes:

> Is there someplace in particular to reference people who need to learn
> about what Python variables are (that they are bindings, etc)?

I like 

    http://starship.python.net/crew/mwh/hacks/objectthink.html

which has the advantage of doing things the pictorial (my) way, and
the verbal (Alex Martelli's) way.

Cheers,
M.

-- 
  First time I've gotten a programming job that required a drug
  test.  I was worried they were going to say "you don't have
  enough LSD in your system to do Unix programming".   -- Paul Tomblin
               -- http://home.xnet.com/~raven/Sysadmin/ASR.Quotes.html



From kdahlhaus at yahoo.com  Wed Jul 23 09:46:41 2003
From: kdahlhaus at yahoo.com (Kevin Dahlhausen)
Date: 23 Jul 2003 06:46:41 -0700
Subject: Python scripting with Paint Shop Pro 8.0
References: <kl3lhvgh5iillo5g9jvff92qkc8i2022nm@4ax.com> <vhoefdfn39v19f@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <283adf56.0307230546.379d92c3@posting.google.com>

"Greg Brunet" <gregbrunet at NOSPAMsempersoft.com> wrote in message news:<vhoefdfn39v19f at corp.supernews.com>...

> Thanks for mentioning PSP 8's support of Python.  I have an older copy
> that I haven't updated for a while, and this scripting capability is an
> update worthwhile making!
> 

Greg,

If you do upgrade, please let them know that the python scripting was
a major factor in your decision to do so.



From kamikaze at kuoi.asui.uidaho.edu  Sat Jul 26 07:00:58 2003
From: kamikaze at kuoi.asui.uidaho.edu (Mark 'Kamikaze' Hughes)
Date: 26 Jul 2003 11:00:58 GMT
Subject: Get data from a Tkinter Text Object
References: <daf62359.0307250936.1cf79be3@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <slrnbi4nra.aqv.kamikaze@kuoi.asui.uidaho.edu>

25 Jul 2003 10:36:04 -0700, Mauro Baraldi <mauro.baraldi at bol.com.br>:
> Hello World...

world.hello("Mauro")

> Someone can help me with a Tkinter doubt.
> I need to get some data, from a Tkinter text objetc and write to a variable.

s = self.textarea.get(1, END)

> And, sent to a text objetc some data from a var.

self.textarea.insert(END, s)

-- 
 <a href="http://kuoi.asui.uidaho.edu/~kamikaze/"> Mark Hughes </a>
"The computer is incredibly fast, accurate, and stupid.
 Man is unbelievably slow, inaccurate, and brilliant.
 The marriage of the two is a force beyond calculation." -Leo Cherne



From klapotec at chello.at  Mon Jul 28 14:03:38 2003
From: klapotec at chello.at (Christopher Koppler)
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 18:03:38 GMT
Subject: Defining/declaring constants in Python
References: <f2800d70.0307280949.75e5faf0@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <hsoaivktfup2to34ubrmv0rt4kf1sfe469@4ax.com>

On 28 Jul 2003 10:49:58 -0700, swenggsri at yahoo.com (Sriram
Chadalavada) wrote:

>Hello everyone,
>  I am a newbie to Python with experience in C programming. For my
>project, I am re-writing C routines as Python functions.
>      I am currently using raw numerical values and  was wondering if
>there is an equivalent of #define in Python for declaring constants.

Python doesn't need no steenkeeng conztantz!

More seriously though, no, there's no equivalent for constants in
Python, as the programmer is generally considered intelligent enough
to leave a value he wants to stay constant alone. So just assign your
raw numerical value to whatever name you think fits best, like any
other variable, and then don't assign it any other value. Accepted
usage is to write the name in ALL CAPS, though - ah, just like in good
old C!

> 	 Is there an elegant way of defining constants in Python? Please let
>me know.

If you really, really, REALLY want a varia^Wconstant that cannot be
changed, no matter how hard you try, in Python, have a look at this:
http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/65207

Christopher



From bokr at oz.net  Sat Jul 19 12:34:21 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 19 Jul 2003 16:34:21 GMT
Subject: How to identify the method that has called another method ?
References: <764b8294.0307180620.37781a4@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bfbrud$q5r$0@216.39.172.122>

On 18 Jul 2003 07:20:18 -0700, martin_a_clausen at hotmail.com (Mars) wrote:

>Hi.
>
>I am using Python 2.2.3 and new-style classes. I want to implement a
>static factory method to build objects for me. My plan is to have
>__init__ check that it has been called from said factory method and
>not directly. Is there a elegant way of achieving this ? (and is this
>a silly idea in general ?)

You don't say why __init__ should need to check. Are you re-using instances
and only want to do part of the init job if the factory re-uses instances
from a free list?

Why not just leave __init__ out and give your class an ordinary method
for initializing that won't be called except on purpose? And limit __init__
to normal on-creation initialization and don't call it directly. E.g. (untested!)

class MyClass(object):
    def __init__(self):
        self.init_on_creation = 'whatever needs setting once on creation only'
    def myinit(self, whatever):
        self.whatever = whatever # or whatever ;-)

def myfactory(something):
    if freelist: instance = freelist.pop()
    else: instance = MyClass()
    instance.myinit(something)
    return instance
...
directly = MyClass() # no automatic call to directly.myinit
factorymade = myfactory(123)

I'm sure you can think of variations from there.
HTH

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl  Mon Jul 21 15:40:09 2003
From: irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 21:40:09 +0200
Subject: Dr. Dobb's Python-URL! - weekly Python news and links (Jul 21)
In-Reply-To: <7h3ispvzw4f.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>
References: <vhne9r38jpsq8a@corp.supernews.com> <ar4ohvob0c0a0lltlq739ccm5d0du58fmd@4ax.com> <7h3ispvzw4f.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <3f1c4197$0$49109$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

Michael Hudson wrote:

> I think there's been some quoted-printable nagery happening.

Exactly. Please accept my apologies for this!
Thanks to Ian Bicking for posting the 'right' URLs.

I'm not sure what caused the character conversion problem,
but I'll do my best to avoid it in future editions.

--Irmen de Jong




From jordan at krushen.com  Mon Jul 21 03:48:41 2003
From: jordan at krushen.com (Jordan Krushen)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 07:48:41 GMT
Subject: httplib\urllib attributes problem
References: <mailman.1058768851.9542.python-list@python.org> <oprsng7vhi5ctagx@shawnews>
Message-ID: <oprsnhddis5ctagx@shawnews>

On Mon, 21 Jul 2003 07:45:19 GMT, Jordan Krushen <jordan at krushen.com> 
wrote:

> At least for this one, here's the relevant code from urllib2.py:
>
> class OpenerDirector:
> def __init__(self):
> server_version = "Python-urllib/%s" % __version__
> self.addheaders = [('User-agent', server_version)]
>
> You should be able to override your opener's addheaders attribute 
> (untested):
>
> opener.addheaders = None

Actually, it's late.  Use this instead:

opener.addheaders = []

This won't break if something else tries to append to the list.

J.



From sjmachin at lexicon.net  Wed Jul 16 07:59:45 2003
From: sjmachin at lexicon.net (John Machin)
Date: 16 Jul 2003 04:59:45 -0700
Subject: Confusing automated translators.
References: <37d6f77c.0307130932.1e3adf0d@posting.google.com>	<3f11ac74$0$49101$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>	<ad052e5c.0307131718.4903430d@posting.google.com>	<3F12808B.E53193B8@hotmail.com> <87brvw3ula.fsf@pobox.com> <mailman.1058279187.32426.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <c76ff6fc.0307160359.5d966474@posting.google.com>

Francois Pinard <pinard at iro.umontreal.ca> wrote in message news:<mailman.1058279187.32426.python-list at python.org>...
> ... Montcalm, a French Canadian military of
> old times.  The history reports that he said:
> 
>    "Messieurs les Anglais, tirez les premiers!"
> 
> but Audouard wrote that he fears the correct writing should have been
> something like:
> 
>    "Messieurs!  Les Anglais...  Tirez les premiers!"
> 

There's a much wider disparity between reported versions of
Cambronne's retort to the English offer that he chuck it in at the end
at Waterloo :-)



From amk at amk.ca  Thu Jul 31 17:51:07 2003
From: amk at amk.ca (A.M. Kuchling)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 16:51:07 -0500
Subject: curses and use_default_colors()
References: <slrnbidnj4.koh.bhv1@pa-steclge-u3-c3b-133.stcgpa.adelphia.net> <7652139e.0307291843.2ade58c6@posting.google.com> <slrnbied9m.lt5.bhv1@pa-steclge-u3-c3b-133.stcgpa.adelphia.net> <slrnbig0bi.o40.bhv1@pa-steclge-u3-c3b-133.stcgpa.adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <Lz6dnb3RfcXWErSiRTvUqw@speakeasy.net>

On Wed, 30 Jul 2003 17:34:29 GMT, 
	Brian Victor <bhv1 at psu.edu> wrote:
> static PyObject *
> pyuse_default_colors(PyObject *self, PyObject *args)
> {
>   use_default_colors();
>   Py_INCREF(Py_None);
>   return Py_None;
> }
> 
> static PyMethodDef SpamMethods[] = {
>     {"use_default_colors",  pyuse_default_colors, METH_VARARGS,
>      "Use Default Colors."},
>     {NULL, NULL, 0, NULL}        /* Sentinel */

Use METH_NOARGS instead of METH_VARARGS; as written, this code will accept
any number of arguments to the Python use_default_colors() method and not
raise any error.  An alternative would be to leave METH_VARARGS and put "if
(!PyArg_NoArgs(args)) return NULL;" in pyuse_default_colors(); this would
work with older versions of Python at the cost of being slightly slower.

I'll add this function to the curses module, so at least it'll be in 2.4;
thanks for writing it. Anyone know if it's possible to test it on MacOS X?
Does the Terminal support transparency?

--amk

> };
> 
> /* PyMODINIT_FUNC */
> /* The docs say to use the above, but it doesn't exist in my copy of
>  * Python.h. */
> void initusedefault()
> {
>   (void) Py_InitModule("usedefault", SpamMethods);
> }
> #v-
> 
> setup.py
> #v+
> from distutils.core import setup, Extension
> 
> module1 = Extension('usedefault',
>                     libraries = ["ncurses"],
>                     sources = ['usedefault.c'])
> 
> setup (name = 'usedefault',
>        version = '1.0',
>        description = 'Use default colors in curses',
>        ext_modules = [module1])
> #v-
> 



From no at nospam.no  Thu Jul 31 15:52:46 2003
From: no at nospam.no (d z e k y l)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 21:52:46 +0200
Subject: Secure FTP in Python?
Message-ID: <bgbs1q$6pt$1@ns.felk.cvut.cz>

Hello,

I'd like to write a small backup utility in Python, which would take
advantage of Secure FTP to upload backup archives. Is there a library
implementing SFTP in Python (something like ftplib)? Or is there some other
(noncomplicated) way how secure uploading can be implemented in Python?

Thank you for advice,
Michal





From dan at osheim.org  Wed Jul 23 19:19:52 2003
From: dan at osheim.org (Dan Williams)
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 18:19:52 -0500
Subject: Standard behaviour of a getSomething method
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1058966922.4133.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1058966922.4133.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <vhu5uvqov7eq81@corp.supernews.com>

Batista, Facundo wrote:
> When I want to know about a attribute (e.g.: myAttrib) of an object, I 
> should use the specific method (e.g.: getMyAttrib).
>
Its not really considered "pythonic" to access attributes through 
getters and setters. Instead, you can access them directly:

 >>> class Foo:
...     def __init__(self, val):
...             self.a = val
...
 >>> foo = Foo(4)
 >>> print foo.a
4
 >>> foo.a = 6
 >>> print foo.a
6
 >>>

If you need to to other processing of the data for the data (ie, if you 
wanted to give a copy), you can use the __getattr__ and __setattr__ 
methods.

> Considering that this attribute is always another object (everything is 
> an object in Python), what should getMyAttrib do?
> 
>         1) Return the object
>         2) Return a copy of the object
> 
> How do I return a copy of the object?
try looking at:
 >>> import copy
 >>> help(copy)

HTH,
-Dan

> 
> Thanks for all.
> 
> .       Facundo
> 
> 
[snip]




From hancock at anansispaceworks.com  Wed Jul 30 01:59:45 2003
From: hancock at anansispaceworks.com (Terry Hancock)
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 22:59:45 -0700
Subject: mime types and vector graphics
Message-ID: <eomcnf5kxctp3LqiU-KYvg@august.net>

I need to store some data with a content specification like 
"major-type"/"minor-type", where the major-type needs to specify roughly 
the following types of data:  text, image, vector graphic, vector 3-D 
model, audio, etc., and each might be represented by a specific format as 
well, so I might have "image/gif"  or "vector/dxf" etc.

Well, that looks a lot like MIME content-types, but not quite.  In 
particular, MIME seems to have nothing to say about vector graphics (I 
guess they must be in the "application" type?).  But I'm not very 
well-informed about MIME, so I wonder if my information is up-to-date.  
How is SVG specified in MIME, for example?  I've seen "image/svg" and 
"image/svg+xml" and so on in a Google search, but one thing the web does 
poorly is tell you what the date was on the page you're reading! :-O

I think I would gain a lot by conforming to an internet standard like MIME, 
but I'm not sure how much effort it's going to cost me. ;-)

But I am doing a rather similar thing -- I need to be able to edit the 
data, adapting to the format, so I need to register 
"editor"/"viewer"/"filter" tools (I just call them "editor" but it's a 
broad definition) by specifying that they know what to do with the various 
types of data and that they can be used to "create", "edit", "quote", 
"markup", "view", "convert/check".

All of which is pretty much the same thing as what MIME is used for in 
email systems.

The QUESTION is:

When I want to add a vector type, such as DXF, for example, should I go 
with:

x-vector/dxf  (i.e. an extension spec inside my software)

or

application/dxf

or

image/dxf

(or maybe something weird along the lines of the svg+xml stuff I saw above, 
that looks frighteningly like adding a third layer in the MIME hierarchy). 

Anyway, I'm reaching a point of indecision about this. ;-)

I realize this isn't exactly a python-specific question, but I am actually 
doing this in Python (and Zope).

Any thoughts appreciated,
Terry

-- 
Terry Hancock
Anansi Spaceworks http://www.AnansiSpaceworks.com/




From ugly_411 at yahoo.com  Wed Jul 30 22:34:58 2003
From: ugly_411 at yahoo.com (Wes Fraser)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 19:34:58 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: keystroke check
Message-ID: <20030731023458.86658.qmail@web20710.mail.yahoo.com>

Is there any way to check in a loop to see if at that
given moment in the program, a key on the key board is
being pressed without actually stopping like raw_ipnut
does?

Thanks!

Wes

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com




From bokr at oz.net  Sun Jul 13 19:08:28 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 13 Jul 2003 23:08:28 GMT
Subject: removing spaces from front and end of filenames
References: <beqdf0$m2q$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu> <3F10BABB.D548961B@alcyone.com> <93f5c5e9.0307130744.7e9d8377@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <besopc$qnm$0@216.39.172.122>

On 13 Jul 2003 08:44:05 -0700, hokiegal99 at hotmail.com (hokiegal99) wrote:

>Erik Max Francis <max at alcyone.com> wrote in message news:<3F10BABB.D548961B at alcyone.com>...
>> hokiegal99 wrote:
>> 
>> > This script works as I expect, except for the last section. I want the
>> > last section to actually remove all spaces from the front and/or end
>> > of
>> > filenames. For example, a file that was named "  test  " would be
>> > renamed "test" (the 2 spaces before and after the filename removed).
>> > Any
>> > suggestions on how to do this?
>> 
>> That's what the .strip method, which is what you're using, does.  If
>> it's not working for you you're doing something else wrong.
>
>for root, dirs, files in os.walk('/home/rbt/scripts'):
>     for file in files:
>         fname = (file)
>         fname = fname.strip( )
>print fname
>
>When I print fname, it prints the filenames w/o spaces (a file named "
>test " looks like "test"), but when I ls the actual files in the
>directory they still contain spaces at both ends. That's what I don't
>understand. It seems that .strip is ready to remove the spaces, but
>that it needs one more step to actually do so. Any ideas?
I don't see where you rename " test " to "test" ;-)

BTW, file is a builtin name for the file class, which creates open file objects,
so it's best to use another name.

Maybe change that last loop to (untested!)

for root, dirs, files in os.walk('/home/rbt/scripts'):
    for fname in files:
        newfile = fname.strip( )
        if newfile != fname:
            newpath = os.path.join(root,newfile)
            oldpath = os.path.join(root,fname)
            os.rename(oldpath,newpath)
            print `oldpath` # back ticks to print repr to make sure you can see spaces
	    print `newpath`

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From wpeterson1 at socal.rr.com  Tue Jul 15 16:48:01 2003
From: wpeterson1 at socal.rr.com (William Peterson)
Date: 15 Jul 2003 13:48:01 -0700
Subject: Open MS Excel Spreadsheet with Python
References: <mailman.1058229111.12248.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3d0678bb.0307151248.1ebc62f6@posting.google.com>

"Allison Bailey" <allisonb at terralogicgis.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.1058229111.12248.python-list at python.org>...
> Hi Folks,
> 
> I'm a brand new Python programmer, so please point me in the right
> direction if this is not the best forum for this question....
> 
> I would like to open an existing MS Excel spreadsheet and extract
> information from specific worksheets and cells.
> 
> I'm not really sure how to get started with this process.
> I ran the COM Makepy utility from my PythonWin (IDE from ActiveSTate),
> using Microsoft Excel 10.0 Object Library, then
> import win32com.client
> xl = win32com.client.Dispatch("Excel.Application")
> wb = xl.Workbooks.Open ("c:\\data\\myspreadsheet.xls")
> 
At this point, I don't believe you're doing Python any more, but
Visual Basic for Applications

> Then, I get errors when I try the following:
> sh = wb.worksheets(1)
>
Is worksheets the proper term or should it be Sheets? Probably depends
on the version of Excel/VBA

Im looking at "Python Programming on Win32", an Oreilly book. If you
really must work with Excel or Word you should get it.

Bill



From vze4rx4y at verizon.net  Mon Jul 14 23:05:33 2003
From: vze4rx4y at verizon.net (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 03:05:33 GMT
Subject: itertools.take?
References: <vh6q7cl5ifin20@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <1cKQa.367$5G6.52@nwrdny03.gnilink.net>

"Dan Williams" <dan at osheim.org> wrote in message
news:vh6q7cl5ifin20 at corp.supernews.com...
> Is there any interest in adding a "Haskellish" take function to
> itertools? I know its easy enough to roll my own, I've been using:
>
> take = lambda iter, n: [x for x in itertools.islice(iter, 0, n)]

I use:

>>> def take(n, seq):
...     return list(islice(seq, n))


> which works, but I was wondering if it was common enough to get into
> itertools?

It made it to the lastest update of the examples in the docs for itertools.
If there is enough demand, it could go into Py2.4


Raymond Hettinger





From bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au  Tue Jul  1 20:00:29 2003
From: bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 00:00:29 GMT
Subject: Circular Inheritance
References: <mailman.1057099023.14043.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrnbg4850.st5.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>

On Tue, 01 Jul 2003 15:36:11 -0700, jinal jhaveri wrote:
> B requires C
> C requires A
> A requires B
> 
> and when I try to do this using 
> from ...import....
> it tells me that you cannot import this. 

Don't Do That Then.

Re-design the modules so that inheritance is a hierarchy.  A band-aid
solution may be to create a new class that mediates between two others,
breaking the circle.  Much better is to figure out why the classes need
to know so much about each other, and redesign them with smaller,
simpler interfaces.

Even if there were a way to do circular inheritance, it would be a
nightmare to understand, so needs to be redesigned anyway.

-- 
 \         "I'm beginning to think that life is just one long Yoko Ono |
  `\   album; no rhyme or reason, just a lot of incoherent shrieks and |
_o__)                                   then it's over."  -- Ian Wolff |
http://bignose.squidly.org/ 9CFE12B0 791A4267 887F520C B7AC2E51 BD41714B



From mis6 at pitt.edu  Tue Jul 15 08:41:02 2003
From: mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato)
Date: 15 Jul 2003 05:41:02 -0700
Subject: Mix lambda and list comprehension?
References: <6f5b3f88.0307142302.1a1531f3@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <2259b0e2.0307150441.22921165@posting.google.com>

peter.barth at t-online.de (Peter Barth) wrote in message news:<6f5b3f88.0307142302.1a1531f3 at posting.google.com>...
> Hi,
> trying to mix lambda expresions and list comprehension 
> doesn't seem to work.
> ---
> >>> [lambda x:x+y for y in range(10)][9](2)
>  11
> >>> [lambda x:x+y for y in range(10)][4](2)
> 11
> ---
> I expected the second expression to return 6.
> What did I do wrong? Any hints?
> Thanks
> - Peter

It is a scope issue. The last value for y is used for all
the created lambdas. All lambdas users are bitten by that,
soon or later. The solution is to make y local to the
lambda function, with the optional argument trick:

>>> [lambda x,y=y:x+y for y in range(10)][4](2)
6

Michele



From michaelb_spam_this at yahoo.com  Wed Jul 23 15:29:06 2003
From: michaelb_spam_this at yahoo.com (Michael Bendzick)
Date: 23 Jul 2003 12:29:06 -0700
Subject: Reading Keyboard Scan Codes
Message-ID: <23daa443.0307231129.12d7ccf5@posting.google.com>

Is there a simple way in python to read a keyboard scan code?  I'm
working on a shell script that interfaces with a proprietary keyboard
device (extra buttons) and need to be able to distinguish between
those keys.

Thank you



From t.leeuwenburg at nothing.bom.gov.au  Thu Jul 17 22:10:44 2003
From: t.leeuwenburg at nothing.bom.gov.au (Tennessee James Leeuwenburg)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 12:10:44 +1000
Subject: Jython classpath question
References: <pan.2003.07.17.02.29.12.502474@removme.bom.gov.au> <mailman.1058434712.21226.python-list@python.org> <pan.2003.07.18.00.38.45.833146@removme.bom.gov.au> <pan.2003.07.18.00.59.22.541043@removme.bom.gov.au>
Message-ID: <pan.2003.07.18.02.10.43.787020@nothing.bom.gov.au>

Never mind,

It was barfing on a dependant class that wasn't in the classpath. I was
just misreading the error message.

Thanks guys,
-T



From max at nospam.com  Wed Jul 23 17:20:52 2003
From: max at nospam.com (max)
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 21:20:52 GMT
Subject: Design tool
In-Reply-To: <bfmr7c$im1$1@nemesis.news.tpi.pl>
References: <3f1e985d$0$236@hades.is.co.za> <xqxy8yprres.fsf@cola2.ca.boeing.com> <bKBTa.22352$On.2762320@twister.nyc.rr.com> <bfmr7c$im1$1@nemesis.news.tpi.pl>
Message-ID: <3F1EFDA6.2060808@nospam.com>

> All work on Windows (ArgoUML is Java application).
> 
I meant Argo does. dia does not, AFAIK




From sfb at alysseum.com  Thu Jul 10 16:04:27 2003
From: sfb at alysseum.com (Simon Bayling)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 20:04:27 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Parsing
References: <e5fb8973.0307100938.13fcea56@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <Xns93B4D6DA3EADEk23vzqpmre@194.106.32.13>

whatsupg21 at hotmail.com (Michael) wrote in 
news:e5fb8973.0307100938.13fcea56 at posting.google.com:

> I have been assigned a project to parse a webpage for data using
> Python. I have finished only basic tutorials. Any suggestions as to
> where I should go from here? Thanks in advance.
> 

Parsing? What are you looking for?
Do you have to download the page as well?

If it's a fairly simple thing to find, you could use something like;

>>> import urllib
>>> source = urllib.urlopen("http://www.google.com").readlines()
>>> for line in source:
>>>     if line.find("logo.gif") > -1:
>>>         print "Found google logo"

If the data to find is more complicated, or you need to parse the HTML as 
well, you should look at more string methods, maybe regular expressions 
(import re)...

Cheers,
Simon.



From cookedm+news at physics.mcmaster.ca  Thu Jul 31 21:50:18 2003
From: cookedm+news at physics.mcmaster.ca (David M. Cooke)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 21:50:18 -0400
Subject: Python speed vs csharp
References: <rkdc7poiachh.1x4jtxjzaf3zo.dlg@40tude.net> <qnkn0eutndk.fsf@arbutus.physics.mcmaster.ca>
 <tYydnShy-9ExJLSiU-KYgw@comcast.com>
Message-ID: <qnkispitacl.fsf@arbutus.physics.mcmaster.ca>

At some point, "Terry Reedy" <tjreedy at udel.edu> wrote:

> "David M. Cooke" <cookedm+news at physics.mcmaster.ca> wrote in message
> news:qnkn0eutndk.fsf at arbutus.physics.mcmaster.ca...
>> At some point, Mike <mike at nospam.com> wrote:
>> > Here's the chunk of code that I'm spending most of my time
> executing:
>> >
>> > # Rational approximation for erfc(x) (Abramowitz & Stegun, Sec.
> 7.1.26)
>> > # Fifth order approximation. |error| <= 1.5e-7 for all x
>> > #
>> > def erfc( x ):
>> >    p  =  0.3275911
>> >    a1 =  0.254829592
>> >    a2 = -0.284496736
>> >    a3 =  1.421413741
>> >    a4 = -1.453152027
>> >    a5 =  1.061405429
>> >
>> >    t = 1.0 / (1.0 + p*float(x))
>> >    erfcx = ( (a1 + (a2 + (a3 +
>> >              (a4 + a5*t)*t)*t)*t)*t ) * math.exp(-(x**2))
>> >    return erfcx
>
> Does inlining the constants give any speedup?  or is local lookup so
> fast that it does not matter?

Should've thought of that too :-). It runs in 6.07 s now (my previous
version was 6.45 s, and the unmodified version above was 8.23 s).

Here's my best version:

exp = math.exp
def erfc( x ):
   t = 1.0 + 0.3275911*x 
   return ( (0.254829592 + (
             (1.421413741 + (-1.453152027 + 1.061405429/t)/t)/t - 0.284496736)
             /t)/t ) * exp(-(x**2))


The reversal of the order of the a2 evaluation is because looking at
the bytecodes (using the dis module) it turns out that -0.284 was
being stored as 0.284, then negated. However, -1.45 is stored as that.
This runs in 5.77 s. You could speed that up a little if you're
willing to manipulate the bytecode directly :-)

-- 
|>|\/|<
/--------------------------------------------------------------------------\
|David M. Cooke
|cookedm(at)physics(dot)mcmaster(dot)ca



From theller at python.net  Fri Jul  4 13:39:17 2003
From: theller at python.net (Thomas Heller)
Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 19:39:17 +0200
Subject: [Dream] A meta-wrapper module to interface any C dynamic
 library
References: <pan.2003.07.04.10.59.31.477048@virgilio.it> <45e6545c.0307040656.4f273046@posting.google.com>
 <cb035744.0307040926.1fccc391@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <8yrefayi.fsf@python.net>

hwlgw at hotmail.com (Will Stuyvesant) writes:

>> [Seo Sanghyeon]
>> To see is to believe.
>> >>> import ctypes
>> >>> loader = ctypes.cdll
>> >>> dll = loader.msvcrt
>> >>> sin = dll.sin
>> >>> sin.argtypes = [ctypes.c_double]
>> >>> sin.restype = ctypes.c_double
>> >>> sin(3.14)
>> 0.0015926529164868282
>
> I love examples like this!  And ctypes is very good, I downloaded the
> .EXE installer and ran it and this example works "out of the box".
>
> How do you know what functions are available in "dll"?  Any general
> strategy?

On windows, you use dependency walker, although it would also be
possible to write something similar in ctypes ;-)

http://www.dependencywalker.com/

On unix like systems, I don't know. Use nm(1) ?

Thomas



From fumingw at tom.com  Fri Jul 11 23:38:48 2003
From: fumingw at tom.com (Fuming Wang)
Date: 11 Jul 2003 20:38:48 -0700
Subject: Accessing and updating global variables among several modules
Message-ID: <a12f6af8.0307111938.4d7a9851@posting.google.com>

Hi,

I have several modules that need to access global variables among
them.  I can do that by import modules:

module A:
gA = 'old'

module B:
import A
print A.gA
>>> 'old'

change gA in module A after some initialization:
def init_fuct():
    gA = 'new'

no change in module B:
print A.gA
>>> 'old'

However, when I modify these global variables in one module, the other
modules would not see the changes.  Any one has any suggestions? ( I
don't want to use from A import *)


Thanks,
Fuming



From max at alcyone.com  Wed Jul  2 02:31:27 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 23:31:27 -0700
Subject: __del__ not working with cyclic reference? (and memory-leaked?)
References: <ba1e306f.0307011837.269e3d2a@posting.google.com> <ba1e306f.0307012211.5d4e0f6a@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3F027C3F.BE89AA99@alcyone.com>

Jane Austine wrote:

> For example, say the singleton has a database connection, in a cgi
> program.
> I want the singleton clear itself(and close the connection) before
> the whole process exits. It seems to be more convenient and
> object-oriented.

Typically singleton patterns need an out-of-band signal to tell them to
destroy and reclaim the (protected) singleton instance.  Usually it's
done with some kind of 'close' or 'finish' method.

Note that there are other patterns that are useful for singleton-like
behaviors in Python; say, for instance, the Borg pattern (where each
"instance" really just has a reference to the original instance's
__dict__ contents).

> Then "destructor" has less use than in other environments.
> Maybe I should avoid destructors in python as well as I can.

Not really.  In C++, destructors are only called when an object is
properly deleted.  In Java, finalize methods have the same guarantees as
Python's __del__ method; they're not guaranteed to be called in a timely
fashion or at all.

> It is neat and reliable. Thanks.

Sure thing.

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ When the solution is simple, God is answering.
\__/  Albert Einstein



From Eric.Sosman at sun.com  Tue Jul 29 12:50:20 2003
From: Eric.Sosman at sun.com (Eric Sosman)
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 12:50:20 -0400
Subject: Collective memory
References: <mailman.1057083728.8224.python-list@python.org> <vg88va53uha8e@corp.supernews.com> <hff5eb.e9h.ln@escape.shannon.net> <3F082031.3010503@netscape.netNOTthisBIT> <bec993c8.0307080602.7d5d132e@posting.google.com> <beeln9$b63$8@bob.news.rcn.net> <n1tphvg2gtmjsl8j3rehh33ebhqkb91q2d@4ax.com> <n64civ0cqtsqsvpkr8fmlglg66p8pj56h7@4ax.com> <CdpVa.2257$jO7.568@news.get2net.dk>
Message-ID: <3F26A5CC.439ADC59@sun.com>

Nico de Jong wrote:
> 
> > Among the latter were two posters printed on [now I have forgotten the
> > English word for this type of paper, but it has tractor holes along
> > both sides, and is flimsy, and has horizontal perforations every now
> > and then] paper, with a silk-screeened slogan advocating recycling on
> > the supposedly blank side.
> 
> You are thinking of fanfold and/or leporello.
> Leporello comes probably from the operette figure, who in a scene reads a
> list of his masters "conquests", and as there are about 1000 names, he had
> to fold it in some way.

    You're off by one order of (binary) magnitude:

	 640	In Italia sei cento e quaranta,
	 231	In Alemagna due cento e trent'una,
	 100	Cento in Francia,
	  91	                  in Turchia novent'una,
	1003	Ma in Ispagna, son gi? mille e tre!
	====
	2065

I once performed this "catalog aria" in an extrememly low-budget
production.  As a sight gag, I handed poor Donna Elvira the "non
piccolo libro," turned a couple pages for her while she registered
disbelief and horror, opened up a page as if to show her the
Playboy centerfold, and then strolled clear across the stage from
down left to down right -- still grasping the paper, with forty
feet of fan-fold unfurling as I went ...

    Cheap productions, cheap gags.  But, I think, a perfect
justification for the term "leporello" applied to fan-fold paper!

-- 
Eric.Sosman at sun.com



From db3l at fitlinxx.com  Tue Jul 15 18:40:06 2003
From: db3l at fitlinxx.com (David Bolen)
Date: 15 Jul 2003 18:40:06 -0400
Subject: delete file
References: <2c6431ab.0307100711.780a65ad@posting.google.com> <mailman.1057851734.20147.python-list@python.org> <QugPa.26879$FN3.2233696@news.ono.com> <3F0D962E.23DA9F59@engcorp.com> <2c6431ab.0307110529.7a336f30@posting.google.com> <3F0EBFED.BB283660@engcorp.com> <2c6431ab.0307150743.7dd52f3f@posting.google.com> <mailman.1058286808.741.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <uu19ns9bt.fsf@fitlinxx.com>

Gerhard H?ring <gh at ghaering.de> writes:

> if not os.path.exists("foo"):
>      os.remove("foo")

Wouldn't you want this to be a positive check (e.g., without "not")?

> or just catch the error, with something like:
> 
> try:
>      os.remove("foo")
> except OSError, detail:
>      if detail.errno != 2:
>          raise

For the OP, the second option should in general be preferred, since
even in the first case, the file might disappear between when the
exists() call is made and when the remove() call is made.

Or put another way, even if you do want to use os.path.exists() to
conditionalize the execution of some code, you'll need to realize that
the check won't guarantee that the file remains present for any
specific length of time following the check.  So for maximum
robustness you'd need to protect the os.remove() call anyway, and
might as well dispense with the initial check and just attempt the
operation.

-- David



From gnosis at gnosis.cx  Sat Jul  5 03:18:30 2003
From: gnosis at gnosis.cx (Dr. David Mertz)
Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2003 02:18:30 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Least used builtins?
In-Reply-To: <1057382150.516.63.camel@lothlorien>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0307050204330.26322-100000@ringo.siteprotect.com>

|just means that "core Python" (i.e., the subset of Python's
|standard library used by 95% of significant code)

Nah... I think the ratio is exactly the opposite.  Putting all 
the things I mentioned before into outside modules would require 
no modification at all to 95% of my modules (well, excluding some 
unusual introspective code I've written).  And the 5% that would 
be affected would need one extra import line at top (unless some 
mechanism like startup.py eliminated even that one line).

|The premise of PyPy is that *everything* is a likely candidate for
|reimplementation in Python.  It shouldn't matter if it's a builtin.

Well... yes and no.  The project is necessarily incremental.  
Everything is a candidate for reimplementation, but one picks low 
hanging fruit first.

|I disagree.  There's nothing saying you have to describe
|everything in __builtins__ -- using that module as a teaching
|outline is surely a bad idea.

As soon as a new programmer gets an interactive shell they run 
'dir()'.  And then they wonder what all those names are about.  
And a natural presentation puts everthing builtin together, for 
example in a reference text.

|That describes most of my modules!  I seldom import sys -- I probably
|import os much more often, but certainly not half of the time. 

Really?! How do you get sys.argv then? Or sys.stdin? Admittedly,
a simple 'print' usually gets you the sys.stdout you want, but
what about sys.stderr?

At very least, your style of programming is very different from 
mine, or from most of the modules I download.  I do agree that a 
bit of stuff is lumped together inside sys.  Perhaps a different 
factoring might have been good ten years ago... but that matters 
a lot less than does what is in __builtins__.






From rxs141 at cwru.edu  Mon Jul 21 19:08:14 2003
From: rxs141 at cwru.edu (Ravi)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 19:08:14 -0400
Subject: Automatically filling in answers to interactive shell command
 questions
In-Reply-To: <d365ef4b.0307211423.27ba6d86@posting.google.com>
References: <d365ef4b.0307211423.27ba6d86@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bfhro1$ck9$1@eeyore.INS.cwru.edu>

Ted Weatherly wrote:
> Is it possible to use python to automatically fill in the answers to
> interactive shell command questions?  For example, I am using a shell
> command addperson that behaves as follows:
> 
>   > addperson
>   First Name: Ted
>   Birthday: 12/08/1977
>   Height: 6'0"
>   Location: San Francisco, CA
>   > 
> 
> I am prompted for "First Name: " and I enter "Ted".  I am prompted for
> "Birthday: " and I enter "12/08/1977".  Imagine doing this for 100
> people or more...it gets tiresome.
> 
> Assuming I can't change the addperson command to read data from a
> file, is there any way to use python to fill in the data for the
> expected questions?  Perhaps a different language would be better?
> 
> -Ted

As a last resort, you can always use PExpect. It pretends to be a user 
sitting at a terminal. http://pexpect.sf.net

Ravi




From donn at drizzle.com  Thu Jul  3 02:43:41 2003
From: donn at drizzle.com (Donn Cave)
Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 06:43:41 -0000
Subject: Signal-handling question
References: <mailman.1057174925.674.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <1057214619.556563@yasure>

Quoth Gary Robinson <grobinson at transpose.com>:
| In some code we're writing we're making an assumption, and I'd like to
| confirm that the assumption is valid.
|
| Suppose a signal arrives while a file is being written, and the signal
| handler explicitly raises a SystemExit exception.
|
| My understanding is that the C-level I/O code will continue and the signal
| won't be processed until the end of the atomic python interpreter
| instruction that invoked that C code.
|
| Then, the signal handler is executed, including the SystemExit.
|
| Are we guaranteed that there are no circumstances under which any more file
| I/O will be carried out by the interrupted code after the signal handler is
| invoked? That is, are we guaranteed that the SystemExit raised by the signal
| handler will immediately terminate the interrupted call to write()?

I can't say I really know the details for sure, but here are a couple
of questions and observations.

- What interrupted call to write()?  I thought your C I/O call was
  going to complete.  I believe that's correct, it will complete,
  if it's really to disk, or if you get BSD-style restartable I/O
  on your platform.  If so, the output goes out, even if after the
  delivery of the signal and the execution of the Python-internal
  C signal handler.  At the system call level, at any rate, there
  isn't anything to terminate by the time the Python code runs.

- If writing to a pipe or something and I/O isn't restartable, write
  will raise an exception;  don't know for sure when the signal handler's
  Python code will run in this case, presumably before the exception
  handlers but I'm just guessing.

- But you're probably not really calling posix.write, are you?  The 
  Python file object uses C stdio functions like fwrite(3).  In this
  case, the effect should be similar, but different in a way that you
  may care about, I can't tell.  The thing is, C stdio output doesn't
  actually write all the data to disk.  The rest typically is written
  on fclose(3), which is automatically done at process exit, whether
  Python closes the file objects or not.  In this case, the data is
  still all from writes issued prior to the Python code signal handler,
  but some of it is written to disk afterwards.

	Donn Cave, donn at drizzle.com



From runeb at [remove].eyeone.com  Mon Jul 21 12:34:10 2003
From: runeb at [remove].eyeone.com (Rune Braathen)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 18:34:10 +0200
Subject: Python scripting with Paint Shop Pro 8.0
In-Reply-To: <rajnhv0g0d21okj8uhebsakehgm9i6slvh@4ax.com>
References: <kl3lhvgh5iillo5g9jvff92qkc8i2022nm@4ax.com> <mailman.1058775152.5377.python-list@python.org> <rajnhv0g0d21okj8uhebsakehgm9i6slvh@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <bfh9dn$krc$1@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net>

Marc Wilson wrote:
> It's a start- actually, we want to convert the file to JPEG (if not
> already), sharpen it, fix the size and also derive a thumbnail from it.

I don't know whether that is doable with the python scripting in 
PaintShop Pro as I haven't got round to upgrading yet, but I do know 
that Python+PIL can do that in very few lines of work. With some 
tweaking, you can use py2exe to make your script into an executable, 
thereby removing the need for every user to install python.

( ... )

> While I'm sure Python is a lovely language, the choice is due to PSP using
> the scripting engine: if I have to write something from scratch (or even
> from bits'n'bobs), I'll use a language I already know.

That's a very sound argument. However, if you are planning on doing any 
image processing in the future, you will never regret the time spent 
learning Python and PIL. In fact, it is a fairly good possibility that 
you would look back and wonder how you ever survived without it.

-- 
runeb




From suresh_vsamy at rediffmail.com  Thu Jul  3 00:53:45 2003
From: suresh_vsamy at rediffmail.com (Suresh  Kumar)
Date: 3 Jul 2003 04:53:45 -0000
Subject: Converting canvas coordinates to window coordinates....... 
Message-ID: <20030703045345.10507.qmail@webmail25.rediffmail.com>

An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed...
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URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/attachments/20030703/52aaf31b/attachment.ksh>

From newgene at bigfoot.com  Tue Jul 29 15:37:42 2003
From: newgene at bigfoot.com (newgene)
Date: 29 Jul 2003 12:37:42 -0700
Subject: howto redirect stdout/stderr into a wxPython textctrl?
References: <mailman.1059471043.27843.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <a50631f6.0307291137.106292d1@posting.google.com>

It works. Thank you.



From m at moshez.org  Tue Jul  8 12:09:06 2003
From: m at moshez.org (Moshe Zadka)
Date: 8 Jul 2003 16:09:06 -0000
Subject: anything new on the ternary operator?
In-Reply-To: <16138.56413.684250.921762@montanaro.dyndns.org>
References: <16138.56413.684250.921762@montanaro.dyndns.org>, <3F09E4B4.FED89C06@alcyone.com>
        <3F09252F.9B0F52BD@alcyone.com>
        <mailman.1057533670.9800.python-list@python.org>
        <beae42$d01$1@panix2.panix.com>
        <mailman.1057574950.16136.python-list@python.org>
        <mailman.1057642872.21988.python-list@python.org>
        <40a939c9.0307080622.3118cfd7@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20030708160906.11325.qmail@green.zadka.com>

On Tue, 8 Jul 2003, Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com> wrote:

> Sure, but what continent is the the Middle East in, Europe, Asia or Africa?
> I had to make the same decision in Musi-Cal.  I decided that Israel was part
> of Europe.  The decision wasn't entirely arbitrary.  Most concert dates we
> list for Asia are in Japan, Korea or Hong Kong.  There are almost never any
> African concert dates listed.  Israel was close enough to Europe that it
> made sense to group it there.

Of course, for a music thingy it makes double the sense -- we're on the
Eurovision, which may effect concert dates.
[Of course, some may think grouping the eurovision with music is worse
than grouping Israel with Europe :)]
-- 
Moshe Zadka -- http://moshez.org/
Buffy: I don't like you hanging out with someone that... short.
Riley: Yeah, a lot of young people nowadays are experimenting with shortness.
Agile Programming Language -- http://www.python.org/




From gsmatthew at ozemail.com.au  Mon Jul 14 08:29:25 2003
From: gsmatthew at ozemail.com.au (Graeme Matthew)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 22:29:25 +1000
Subject: How to give a custom object instance a type name ?
References: <DAwQa.168$O05.9536@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au> <beu76g$8t8vu$1@ID-67890.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <ImxQa.200$O05.10579@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au>

works fine, ta

x.__class__.__name__
'Dispatcher'
>>>
"Ulrich Petri" <ulope at gmx.de> wrote in message
news:beu76g$8t8vu$1 at ID-67890.news.uni-berlin.de...
> "Graeme Matthew" <gsmatthew at ozemail.com.au> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
> news:DAwQa.168$O05.9536 at nnrp1.ozemail.com.au...
> >
> > Here is a custom Dispatcher class that I have written
> >
> > >>> from BI.System.Controller.Dispatcher import Dispatcher
> > >>> x = Dispatcher()
> > >>> type(x)
> > <type 'instance'>
>
> You did Java before ;)?
>
> > How do I get the same as with instance 'm' above where the type displays
> the
> > actual object instance name, however my
> > custom dispatcher instance is just a generic 'instance', is there some
> > builtin where this is set ?
> >
>
> how about
> >>> x.__class__.__name__
>
> HTH
> Ciao Ulrich
>
>





From bokr at oz.net  Sun Jul 20 18:52:09 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 20 Jul 2003 22:52:09 GMT
Subject: properties + types, implementing meta-class desciptors elegantly?
References: <mailman.1058532630.7342.python-list@python.org> <mailman.1058629890.30475.python-list@python.org> <bfc82v$hm8$0@216.39.172.122> <mailman.1058654317.6488.python-list@python.org> <bfe637$6rk$1@panix2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <bff6ep$fv3$0@216.39.172.122>

On 20 Jul 2003 09:39:51 -0400, aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) wrote:

>In article <mailman.1058654317.6488.python-list at python.org>,
>Mike C. Fletcher <mcfletch at rogers.com> wrote:
>>
>>    * finally, stores the value
>>          o tries to do what would have been done if there were no
>>            descriptor (with the new, coerced value)
>>          o does *not* create new names in the object's namespace (all
>>            names are documented w/ descriptors, there's not a lot of
>>            '_' prefixed names cluttering the namespace)
>>          o does *not* require a new dictionary/storage-object attribute
>>            for the object (the descriptor works like any other
>>            descriptor, a *stand-alone* object that replaces a regular
>>            attribute)
>
>But this is a recipe for name clashes.  If you follow the first bullet,
>it's a normal attribute, but everything else says you want a property.
>Properties are themselves objects that are attached to names in an
>object.  You can't have the same name bound to two different objects.

I was wondering if Mike was wanting to have class C(...) with property p
(meaning the property object is an attribute of class C or a base), and
wanting also to have the instance dict contain the data as c.p rather
than, say, c._p.

IOW, does he want a sneaky way to avoid seeing the underscored or otherwise
modified names in the object, so as to have a clean dir(c)?

Other than the problem of getting the class defined in a dynamically configurable way
via metaclasses or other machinery, c.__dict__['p'] = value_from_property_fset should
work, IWT.  The code below does that, though a little more parameterized ;-)

What I'm not getting is why a dict proxy is getting in the way, unless there is an
attempt to use the property mechanism to store properties-as-values in a class-as-instance.

If so, does he (continuing 3rd person since I'm replying to AAhz. Hi Mike ;-) really want
all that dynamic meta-stuff to happen every time a class is instatiated, or should the
classes-to-use be created once at some configuration time (maybe system start or other
special times), and thereafter appear to be equivalent to plain valnilla manually written
classes with properties?

If the latter, some kind of factory module that manufactures configured classes with
configured properties and puts them in its global name space to be used in apparently
normal "import m; inst=m.C()" fashion would seem better than metaclass inheritance magic behind C.
If there are other configuration times than first-import, the module could have a special
factory functions for that, IWT (as in cpc.py below). The properties of the final
configured/manufactured classes could of course act with any degree of dynamism desired
when accessed as attributes of the final class instances.

BTW, do I recall somewhere seeing that defining __dict__ as a slot induces creation of
a writable dict, and could that be used to get a dict in place of proxy for the trouble spot?

For Mike:

What does the following not address (I assume you can rearrange things to your taste ;-)
that you want to do? (InfoSource is my placeholder as an example for whatever dynamic
configuration of the ultimate class you want to do).


====< cpc.py >=================================================================
def getCustPropClass(infoSource):
    class MC_CustPropBase(type): 
        """Metaclass to provide basic customized property methods and data"""
        def __new__(cls, name, bases, cdict):
            if name == 'CustPropBase': return type.__new__(cls, name, bases, cdict)
            cdict['__name__'] = name
            cdict['__doc__'] = infoSource[name, '__doc__']
            # was raw_input('Base Doc string for property %r: '%name)
            # let subclasses "underride" default and config
            if 'default' not in cdict:
                cdict['default'] = infoSource[name, 'default']
                # was raw_input('Base Default for property %r: '%name)
            if 'config' not in cdict:
                cdict['config'] = infoSource[name, 'config']
                # was  raw_input('Base Config data for property %r: '%name)
            def __set__(self, client, val):
                client.__dict__[self.__name__] = val
            def __get__(self, client, ctype=None):
                if client is None: return self
                if self.__name__ not in client.__dict__: return self.default
                return client.__dict__[self.__name__]
            def __delete__(self, client):
                if self.__name__ not in client.__dict__:
                    raise AttributeError, 'Property %r has no instance data to delete.' % self.__name__
                del client.__dict__[self.__name__]
            for method in '__set__ __get__ __delete__'.split():
                if method in cdict: continue  # don't override
                cdict[method] = vars()[method]
            return type.__new__(cls, name, bases, cdict)

    class CustPropBase(object): __metaclass__ = MC_CustPropBase

    class MC_ConfProps(type):
        """
        Configurable property definitions to be instantiated in 
        the instances of (this meta) class.
        """
        def __new__(cls, name, bases, cdict):
            docs = filter(None, [cdict.get('__doc__', '')])
            for k,v in MC_ConfProps.__dict__.items(): #walk prop defs in this class
                if isinstance(v, type) and (hasattr(v,'__set__') or hasattr(v, '__get__')):
                    cdict[k] = v()
                    docs.append('\n    see also %s.%s.__doc__ for property %r'%(name, k, k))
            cdict['__doc__'] = ''.join(docs)
            return type.__new__(cls, name, bases, cdict)

        class p(CustPropBase):
            """property p direct doc string will be overwritten by CustPropBase"""
            default = infoSource['p','default']
            # was raw_input('Property p: "Underride" of Base default value: ')
            conf = infoSource['p','conf']
            # was raw_input('Property p: Special Config data: ')
            def __set__(self, client, val): # special set method differs from CustPropBase
                client.__dict__['p'] = (
                    '(%r) modified w/ overridden base default(%r) data plus\n'
                    'base config(%r) & special config(%r) data.' %
                        ( val, self.default, self.config, self.conf))

        class q(CustPropBase): pass # totally default

        class r(CustPropBase):      # totally default except read-only
            def __set__(self, client, val):
                raise AttributeError, 'Property %r is read-only' % self.__name__

    class ConfiguredProperties(object): __metaclass__ = MC_ConfProps

    class C(ConfiguredProperties):
        """Empty  test class C inheriting from ConfiguredProperties"""
    return C

class InteractiveInfo(object):
    def __getitem__(self, ixtup): # expect (propname, dataname) tuple as key
        return raw_input('Enter value for property %r attribute %r: '% ixtup) #(propname,dataname)

testInfo = {
    ('p','__doc__'): '<p doc string>',
    ('p','default'): '<p default value>',
    ('p','config'):  '<p config value>',
    ('p','conf'):    '<p special conf value>',
    ('q','__doc__'): '<q doc string>',
    ('q','default'): ('<q default value>', (lambda x: 123456789),'(not just strings ;-)'),
    ('q','config'):  '<q config value>',
    ('r','__doc__'): '<r doc string>',
    ('r','default'): '<r default value>',
    ('r','config'):  '<r config value>',
}   

def test():
    for info_source in (testInfo, InteractiveInfo()):
        C = getCustPropClass(info_source)
        c = C()
        print 'intitial p:', c.p
        print 'intitial q:', c.q
        print 'intitial r:', c.r
        print 'try to set them to 123 and retrieve'
        for prop in 'pqr':
            print 'setting %s to 123'%prop
            try:
                setattr(c, prop, 123)
            except Exception, e:
                print '%s: %s'% (e.__class__.__name__, e)
            print 'getting %s:\n----\n%s\n----' %(prop, getattr(c,prop,'???'))
        print 'try to delete them  and retrieve'
        for prop in 'pqr':
            print 'deleting %s'%prop
            try:
                delattr(c, prop)
            except Exception, e:
                print '%s: %s'% (e.__class__.__name__, e)
            print 'after deleting %s:\n----\n%s\n----' %(prop, getattr(c,prop,'???'))
        print 'c.__doc__\n', c.__doc__
        for prop in 'pqr':
            print getattr(C, prop).__doc__

if __name__ == '__main__':
    test()
===============================================================================
An interactive run (with automatic test data first):

[15:46] C:\pywk\clp\fletcher>cfc.py
intitial p: <p default value>
intitial q: ('<q default value>', <function <lambda> at 0x00800730>, '(not just strings ;-)')
intitial r: <r default value>
try to set them to 123 and retrieve
setting p to 123
getting p:
----
(123) modified w/ overridden base default('<p default value>') data plus
base config('<p config value>') & special config('<p special conf value>') data.
----
setting q to 123
getting q:
----
123
----
setting r to 123
AttributeError: Property 'r' is read-only
getting r:
----
<r default value>
----
try to delete them  and retrieve
deleting p
after deleting p:
----
<p default value>
----
deleting q
after deleting q:
----
('<q default value>', <function <lambda> at 0x00800730>, '(not just strings ;-)')
----
deleting r
AttributeError: Property 'r' has no instance data to delete.
after deleting r:
----
<r default value>
----
c.__doc__
Empty  test class C inheriting from ConfiguredProperties
    see also C.q.__doc__ for property 'q'
    see also C.p.__doc__ for property 'p'
    see also C.r.__doc__ for property 'r'
<p doc string>
<q doc string>
<r doc string>
Enter value for property 'p' attribute 'default': [p default]
Enter value for property 'p' attribute 'conf': [p conf]
Enter value for property 'p' attribute '__doc__': [p doc]
Enter value for property 'p' attribute 'config': [p config]
Enter value for property 'q' attribute '__doc__': [q doc]
Enter value for property 'q' attribute 'default': [q default]
Enter value for property 'q' attribute 'config': [q config]
Enter value for property 'r' attribute '__doc__': [r doc]
Enter value for property 'r' attribute 'default': [r default]
Enter value for property 'r' attribute 'config': [r config]
intitial p: [p default]
intitial q: [q default]
intitial r: [r default]
try to set them to 123 and retrieve
setting p to 123
getting p:
----
(123) modified w/ overridden base default('[p default]') data plus
base config('[p config]') & special config('[p conf]') data.
----
setting q to 123
getting q:
----
123
----
setting r to 123
AttributeError: Property 'r' is read-only
getting r:
----
[r default]
----
try to delete them  and retrieve
deleting p
after deleting p:
----
[p default]
----
deleting q
after deleting q:
----
[q default]
----
deleting r
AttributeError: Property 'r' has no instance data to delete.
after deleting r:
----
[r default]
----
c.__doc__
Empty  test class C inheriting from ConfiguredProperties
    see also C.q.__doc__ for property 'q'
    see also C.p.__doc__ for property 'p'
    see also C.r.__doc__ for property 'r'
[p doc]
[q doc]
[r doc]

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From intentionally at blank.co.uk  Mon Jul 14 22:45:05 2003
From: intentionally at blank.co.uk (Stephen Horne)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 03:45:05 +0100
Subject: anything like C++ references?
References: <000301c348c7$3c501980$21795418@dell1700> <sag3hv4vf884ed7ouu5cv8ofnopp9j1t12@4ax.com> <bet1sd$ibl$1@panix3.panix.com> <sfa4hvkq1j7rg1iga5j3tk2cc4qpr6e5qk@4ax.com> <beueis$b1d$1@panix3.panix.com> <78c6hvgu599ku5denkkl7pgmd4n13t460i@4ax.com> <roy-204535.19175914072003@reader1.panix.com> <aqe6hvgos16fphscbqbt633nhvur9vooet@4ax.com> <3F1353ED.4111EC1D@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <pnp6hv4cgsivddqoioi6d4n41ihc2haq00@4ax.com>

On Mon, 14 Jul 2003 18:07:57 -0700, Erik Max Francis <max at alcyone.com>
wrote:

>Stephen Horne wrote:
>
>> 99 out of 100 times, true. But not always - especially in discrete
>> maths.
>> 
>> For example, if I write...
>> 
>>   [forall] x . f(x) = y
>> 
>> It's hard to interpret that '=' as an assertion. Similar applies to a
>> range of maths operators.
>
>How is that not an assertion, anymore than
>
>	[exists] x [~ (x = y)]

The '=' isn't an assertion here. The '[exists]' is an assertion - it
asserts that there exists an value x for which [~ (x = y)] evaluates
to true. Note the use of the boolean 'not' operator (which you
represented using '~'. The boolean 'not' operator returns a value -
either 'true' or 'false'. It doesn't assert anything except in the
context of the whole expression.

If I wrote...

  z = [exists] x [~ (x = y)]

Things become even more clear. The '[exists]' part is no longer an
assertion any more than '1+2' is an assertion. It is an expression
returning a boolean result.

>I don't mean this as an insult, but it seems to me that much of your
>comments on Python in these threads come down to, "The way this works is
>not something I would have given this name to."  While that's completely
>legitimate, it's hard to see it as very compelling, since your
>distinctions seem to me to be fairly arbitrary (x = y is assertion but
>ALL x [f(x) = y] isn't?).

Not at all.

If I write...

  x = 1

...that is an assertion.

If I write...

  ALL x [f(x) = y]

...that is also an assertion - but the role of the '=' operator is
simply to return a boolean result. It can't form an assertion on its
own because it is only a part of the expression. There is no such
thing as a 'subassertion' - an assertion is an indivisible thing. A
subexpression from the overall assertion, out of context, does not
usefully assert anything.

The '=' operator plays the same role as the '+' operator in the
following...

  ALL x [f(x) + g(x) = 0]

The '=' operator contributes to the expression because it returns a
value - exactly the same as the '+' operator.




From belred1 at yahoo.com  Mon Jul 14 22:26:58 2003
From: belred1 at yahoo.com (Bryan)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 02:26:58 GMT
Subject: anything like C++ references?
References: <000301c348c7$3c501980$21795418@dell1700> <iqm2hvs77lhe1m71v9b579070khbf0uv0a@4ax.com> <berqqd$ad5$1@panix3.panix.com> <brs2hv8edfv0d1fch9mha8otuulajnkh0g@4ax.com> <bes0ps$l6$1@panix3.panix.com> <qi13hv4s21i8mtr2e600jumm54hqs7tppu@4ax.com> <mailman.1058125699.26133.python-list@python.org> <sag3hv4vf884ed7ouu5cv8ofnopp9j1t12@4ax.com> <f0f51c80.0307132003.264b6894@posting.google.com> <7dc4hvslh7a8fk9p6cvsfqa1c8d44rmmnv@4ax.com> <f0f51c80.0307140649.61cc1fe2@posting.google.com> <41e6hvcl2q5bdjqlp30t1gfq42j2tgo4u4@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <SDJQa.63050$N7.7668@sccrnsc03>

>
> In maths, a variable binds to a value. In Python, a variable binds to
> an object in a way that does no correctly implement binding to a value
> unless the object happens to be immutable.
>

this sentence is completely FALSE because python does not have the concept
of variables that bind to values.  therefore it's impossible for python to
incorrectly implement binding variables to values like in math.  python does
not have the concept of variables.  instead, as has been pointed out several
times, python has what you can call "names" that bind to objects.  two
completeley different concepts.  i think a lot of this argument is based on
this false premise that python has true "slot" variables and incorrect
comparisons are being made.

bryan





From troy at gci.net  Tue Jul  1 21:46:28 2003
From: troy at gci.net (Troy Melhase)
Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 17:46:28 -0800
Subject: functors
References: <3jc4gvgn5rb4c4008eedg958ee594lu8p2@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <vg4ebc1gha7c5b@corp.supernews.com>

Tom Plunket wrote:
> What I want (being a C++ coder <g>), is to be able to create an
> object that I is callable.  

Hi Tom:

I'm not quite certain how you intend to use the classes you provided in your
original post, but the answer to your question is to define a __call__
method in your class.  Untested example:

class SomeClass:
    def __init__(self, factor):
        self.factor = factor

    def __call__(self, value):
        return value * self.factor

my_object = SomeClass(3)
print my_object(4)

You can learn more about __call__ and other special functions for classes in
the Language Reference (section 3.3 for python2.2).

Good luck,
troy



From ianb at colorstudy.com  Fri Jul 25 15:17:48 2003
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: 25 Jul 2003 14:17:48 -0500
Subject: path module
In-Reply-To: <20030725203322.P6906@prim.han.de>
References: <1057651068.5348.386.camel@lothlorien>
	 <20030708113219.H6906@prim.han.de>
	 <mailman.1057686613.6463.python-list@python.org>
	 <11234c14.0307211016.344d40bc@posting.google.com>
	 <mailman.1059144006.6426.python-list@python.org>
	 <just-8DDA38.17221725072003@news1.news.xs4all.nl>
	 <20030725184158.O6906@prim.han.de>
	 <1059155133.24478.10738.camel@lothlorien>
	 <20030725203322.P6906@prim.han.de>
Message-ID: <1059160667.28096.10876.camel@lothlorien>

On Fri, 2003-07-25 at 13:33, holger krekel wrote:
> Ian Bicking wrote:
> > Jason had walkers both for all files, just non-directory files, and
> > directory files.  This seems useful to me, and by making it explicit I
> > might just start distinguishing text from binary (which I don't now
> > because I am forgetful).  And a globbing walker, though I don't know how
> > much of an advantage that would be over list comprehension.  Actually,
> > all his walkers have a globbing option.
> 
> We currently only have one 'visit' method that accepts a filter for returning
> results and a filter for recursing into the tree. You can use and
> combine multiple filters like so:
> 
>     root = Path('...)
>     for path in root.visit(AND(isdir, nolink)):
>         # iterates over all non-link dirs in the tree (breadth-first)
> 
> or
> 
>     for path in root.visit(AND(isfile, endswith('.txt')), nodotfile):
>         # iterates over all '*.txt' files but not recursing into ".*"
> 
> and so on.  This proved to be flexible and convenient and mostly avoids
> the need for multiple walk-methods.  

Yeah... but we know that's not going to get into the standard library. 
It requires a big namespace, logic functions (AND, OR, etc.), and it
confuses functions with these filter objects, which are named the same
(and even if the filter objects can be used as functions, it's still
confusing).  It's a style that doesn't exist in the standard library,
and it seems unlikely that it would get in here.

The multiple walk methods would only be a shortcut anyway.  Again, they
might be difficult in a situation like a URL where directory and file
are intermingled (and maybe ReiserFS 4...?) -- which maybe is okay, a
urlpath object simply wouldn't implement that walker.

  Ian






From frobozz_electric at hotmail.com  Thu Jul 17 11:11:25 2003
From: frobozz_electric at hotmail.com (Sean Ross)
Date: 17 Jul 2003 15:11:25 GMT
Subject: Co-routines
References: <g7xRa.305$fF.9914@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au> <3F16A34A.5742F54F@engcorp.com> <bf6bbd$ho3$1@driftwood.ccs.carleton.ca>
Message-ID: <bf6eat$eko$1@driftwood.ccs.carleton.ca>

Actually, that last bit of code wasn't quite right, since it relied on the
LockStepper's to control the alternating between each others statement
execution. What is probably being asked for is something outside the
LockStepper's that will manage the switching.

class LockStepper:
    def __init__(self, id, nstmts):
        self.id = id
        self.stmt = 1
        self.nstmts = nstmts

    def next(self):
        print "instruction %s-%s"%(self.id, self.stmt)
        self.stmt += 1

    def hasnext(self):
        return self.stmt <= self.nstmts

class Switcher:
    def __init__(self, *steppers):
        self.steppers = steppers
    def __call__(self):
        while True:
            for stepper in self.steppers:
                if stepper.hasnext():
                    stepper.next()
            if self._done():
                break
    def _done(self):
        return not [f for f in (f1,f2) if f.hasnext()]


f1 = LockStepper(1, 4)
f2 = LockStepper(2, 7)
switch = Switcher(f1,f2)
switch()





From scooterm at hotmail.com  Tue Jul  1 22:06:33 2003
From: scooterm at hotmail.com (valued customer)
Date: 1 Jul 2003 19:06:33 -0700
Subject: Any views on YAML?
References: <d3c9c04.0306030600.7b1c82cf@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1b347673.0307011806.15eeaf00@posting.google.com>

Views On YAML:
    Benefits:
       - YAML is much better than XML if 'human readability' is truly
a top priority for your particular application.
       - YAML can pass the 'grandma' test (so simple, your grandmother
can understand it without having to know 'techie' stuff).
       - I use YAML for persisting metadata of all sorts. It is easy
to generate template-based transformations of YAML (just like one
would do with XML plus [*YUK*] XSLT). For this category, I use YAML
plus TemplateToolkit.
    Hassles:
       - It is not as popular as XML and therefore may be unfairly
disregarded or shunned by those who require buzzword compliance.
       - It is relatively new and has some of the standard newness
annoyances (no built-in support in development tools, inconsistencies
and quirks, sparse interest).

cartermark46 at ukmail.com (Mark Carter) wrote in message news:<d3c9c04.0306030600.7b1c82cf at posting.google.com>...
> Does anyone have any particular views on YAML, esp. wrt XML? 
> 
> I've been storing information in CSV format - but lately I've been
> thinking that it might be nice to "beef it up a bit". So as well as
> storing the data itself, I might want to store the field descriptions,
> formatting style, and some other stuff. So  a file would be processed
> along the lines of:
> repeat until eof:
>     read-chunk-header
>     read-chunk-data #dependent on the header you find
> 
> ... a la IFF (Interleaved File Format); for those who can cast their
> mind back to Amigas.



From g2h5dqi002 at sneakemail.com  Thu Jul 10 00:06:55 2003
From: g2h5dqi002 at sneakemail.com (Greg Ewing (using news.cis.dfn.de))
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 16:06:55 +1200
Subject: Python Global Constant
In-Reply-To: <3F0BE68B.893EB7E5@engcorp.com>
References: <mailman.1057737013.30246.python-list@python.org> <3F0BE68B.893EB7E5@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <bein3o$5n3mj$1@ID-169208.news.dfncis.de>

Peter Hansen wrote:
> Just do what you did above, without the "const" modifier, which
> doesn't exist and is not really needed in Python.

If you *really* insist on preventing anyone from changing
them, it is possible, with some hackery. Here's one way
that works:

#######################################################
#
#  MyModule.py
#

_constants = ['PI', 'FortyTwo']

PI = 3.1415
FortyTwo = 42

import types

class _ConstModule(types.ModuleType):

   __slots__ = []

   def __setattr__(self, name, value):
     if name in self.__dict__['_constants']:
       raise ValueError("%s is read-only" % name)
     self.__dict__[name] = value

del types
import MyModule
MyModule.__class__ = _ConstModule

#######################################################

Figuring out *how* it works is left as an exercise
for the student. :-)

-- 
Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
University of Canterbury,	
Christchurch, New Zealand
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg




From alanmk at hotmail.com  Mon Jul 14 06:06:03 2003
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 11:06:03 +0100
Subject: Confusing automated translators.
References: <37d6f77c.0307130932.1e3adf0d@posting.google.com> <3f11ac74$0$49101$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl> <ad052e5c.0307131718.4903430d@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3F12808B.E53193B8@hotmail.com>

Dan Bishop wrote:

> The Babelfish translation is
> 
> "People, you polskazhite plz where to reach progu to
> frizer(kazhet'sya, shorter must be into yekhe-shnik outdistanced)."

My favourite "phrase designed to mess up machine translation" (I'll
bet there's one big long word for that in German) is

"Time flies like an arrow, but fruit flies like a banana".

:-D

I'd love to hear of other similar phrases. And somehow I intuit
there's people in this ng who know lots of them :-)

If people think it's too much newsgroup abuse to discuss such a
non-python subject, then email them to me privately, and I'll collect
and list them.

monday-morning-coffee-hasn't-kicked-in-yet-ly yrs.

-- 
alan kennedy
-----------------------------------------------------
check http headers here: http://xhaus.com/headers
email alan:              http://xhaus.com/mailto/alan



From nagylzs at freemail.hu  Fri Jul 11 11:58:07 2003
From: nagylzs at freemail.hu (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Nagy_L=E1szl=F3_Zsolt?=)
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 17:58:07 +0200
Subject: Securing 'pickle'
References: <pan.2003.07.11.01.20.47.998070@127.0.0.1> <slrnbgs4hc.hop.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local> <7x1xwxu98y.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <3F0E1875.574DC6D7@alcyone.com> <mailman.1057892296.5329.python-list@python.org> <87k7apyuor.fsf@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <3F0EDE8F.1050408@freemail.hu>

>
>
>>Security isn't a big deal -- or rather, securing cookies isn't a big
>>deal.
>>    
>>
>
>I don't understand.  The problem is that pickles can be constructed
>that can damage systems when unpickled, is that right?  If that's
>true, then surely unpickling cookie data is unsafe, because stuff
>coming in from the network has to be regarded as malevolent.  Are you
>saying that web server environments are sufficiently-well bolted down
>that no pickle attack will work?  But belt-and-braces is the best
>policy, isn't it?
>

I'm sorry, I just caught this thread and I don't know your problem very 
well.
I'm extensively using this (see below). It is unable to pickle class 
instances but
you won't accidentally run constructors. I think it is safe for 
sending/receiving data.
I did not try to publish this yet but it would be great to know if this 
is safe or not
so please make comments.

Laci 1.0

import cStringIO
import cPickle

def dumps(obj):
f = cStringIO.StringIO()
p = cPickle.Pickler(f,1)
p.dump(obj)
return f.getvalue()

def loads(s):
f = cStringIO.StringIO(s)
p = cPickle.Unpickler(f)
p.find_global = None
return p.load()




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From tzot at sil-tec.gr  Tue Jul 22 13:28:14 2003
From: tzot at sil-tec.gr (Christos TZOTZIOY Georgiou)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 20:28:14 +0300
Subject: Confusing automated translators.
References: <37d6f77c.0307130932.1e3adf0d@posting.google.com> <3f11ac74$0$49101$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl> <ad052e5c.0307131718.4903430d@posting.google.com> <3F12808B.E53193B8@hotmail.com> <87brvw3ula.fsf@pobox.com> <mailman.1058279187.32426.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ohsqhvgr02g59imku3j3cn94hjb9f27ldo@4ax.com>

On 15 Jul 2003 10:24:17 -0400, rumours say that Francois Pinard
<pinard at iro.umontreal.ca> might have written:

>Automated translators which ignore punctuation are pretty fragile, too.

There is also the old story of the Oracle at Delphi (and *that* is
indeed related to Python, see
http://www.tylwythteg.com/delphi/delphi.html :), which owed much of its
success to the dubiousness of the predictions (nobody could prove the
prediction wrong); a good example of needed punctuation was the one that
meant either
"you will go, you will come, you won't die at war"
or
"you will go, you won't come, you will die at war"

In ancient Greek that was because of the negation "ou", which being
between the second and third subsentence, could be attributed to either
one; it was valid greek either way.
-- 
TZOTZIOY, I speak England very best,
Microsoft Security Alert: the Matrix began as open source.



From mail at cheesch.de  Tue Jul 15 18:10:09 2003
From: mail at cheesch.de (Carsten Heesch)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 00:10:09 +0200
Subject: Need help: Compiling Python-Code
References: <mailman.1058258723.4935.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bf1u3t$a7bne$1@ID-98920.news.uni-berlin.de>

> import py_compile
> py_compile.compile(Python-file)

That's it. Thx!
Now I can compile my complex capisuite-incoming/idle-scripts.

Carsten





From vivek at cs.unipune.ernet.in  Thu Jul 31 06:26:01 2003
From: vivek at cs.unipune.ernet.in (vivek at cs.unipune.ernet.in)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 15:56:01 +0530
Subject: Sol : MultiThreaded XMLRPCServer was (Re: How to get success/failure in case of thread)
In-Reply-To: <84fc4588.0307300511.11b4db5b@posting.google.com>; from pythonguy@Hotpop.com on Wed, Jul 30, 2003 at 06:11:41AM -0700
References: <20030728175542.A23857@cs.unipune.ernet.in> <16165.10847.483917.787182@montanaro.dyndns.org> <mailman.1059467622.12587.python-list@python.org> <84fc4588.0307290442.7c203e35@posting.google.com> <mailman.1059552864.3047.python-list@python.org> <84fc4588.0307300511.11b4db5b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <20030731155601.A32564@cs.unipune.ernet.in>

> vivek at cs.unipune.ernet.in wrote in message news:<mailman.1059552864.3047.python-list at python.org>...

> >   How can I use multiple threads in SimpleXMLRPCServer ???
> > 
> > TIA and Kind Regards
> > Vivek Kumar

OK, so I was looking in the wrong direction. But it is not entirely my fault.
There is no mention of ThreadingTCPServer in the Standard Python Documentation. 
There is only one line in documentation of SocketServer module like :

"The solution is to create a separate process or thread to handle each request;
the ForkingMixIn and ThreadingMixIn mix-in classes can be used to support 
asynchronous behaviour."

But still there was no mention that some TCP or UDP server are already
implemented there on these classes. Anyway, after reading the code in the 
SockerServer module and finding that there is already a ThreadingTCPServer 
available all other thing becomes very very easy. 

To implement the Threaded XMLRPCServer I just copied the code of 
SimpleXMLRPCServer into a new file and changed the SocketServer.TCPServer to
SocketServer.ThreadingTCPServer. That is all I have done and now it is a 
multithreaded XMLRPCServer :-).

But I think that the Python Documentation (Library reference) should contain
the documentation for all the modules provided with the standard Python 
distribution.

Again a BIG THX for all you people's support and help

Kind Regards
Vivek Kumar




From donn at u.washington.edu  Mon Jul  7 12:35:40 2003
From: donn at u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)
Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 09:35:40 -0700
Subject: AIX + GCC 2.95.3 - Python (2.1 or 2.2) - building the shared library (.so) for python - HOW TO?!?
References: <3F056D69.1090705@polbox.com> <m3y8zdz9fe.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <donn-1537DE.09354007072003@nntp1.u.washington.edu>

In article <m3y8zdz9fe.fsf at mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>,
 martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. Lowis) wrote:

> hab <hab at polbox.com> writes:
> 
> > (If I use standard -shared linking, during the _import python is crashing.)
> > As seen in in AIX-NOTES there should be used ld_so_aix. But I suspect
> > that it was prepared for standard xlC (CC) compiler. How to make it
> > running for GCC compiler?
> 
> Nobody knows anything about AIX in the Python world. You have to make
> it work yourself.
> 
> > 1. Why is such nonuderstandable-ultimate-tricky solution prepared for AIX?
> 
> There are two possible reasons:
> 1. AIX is such a strange system that you need to play dirty tricks to
>    make it load modules dynamically.
> 2. Whoever ported shared loading to AIX didn't know anything about the
>    system, and tried random things until he got a working solution.
> 
> I don't know which one it is, but I'm leaning towards 1)

AIX is a classic example of underemployed engineers working in a
vacuum.  It's strange, sometimes arguably better but rarely worth
the trouble.  Linux strikes me a bit the same way, actually, and
IBM's interest in Linux is no surprise.  I doubt there are any really
dirty tricks, but there is a point at which things like this are
going to depend on the compiler software.  ld_so_aix works fine with
xlc, in my experience, and there's no reason to look for malfeasance
on either side to explain why it stops there.  If you want a normal
UNIX platform with an open architecture, try one of the BSDs, or Linux
if you're not that picky about the normal UNIX part.  If you're obliged
to work on AIX, then whoever's paying for AIX should happy to pay for
the compiler too.

   Donn Cave, donn at u.washington.edu



From bobsmith327 at hotmail.com  Tue Jul  8 20:52:38 2003
From: bobsmith327 at hotmail.com (Bob Smith)
Date: 8 Jul 2003 17:52:38 -0700
Subject: Possible to install from CD using distutils?
Message-ID: <c281f461.0307081652.6df70226@posting.google.com>

Hi.  I'm trying to distribute a Python package on a CD-ROM that gets
installed using distutils.  The problem is that distutils attempts to
write a new 'build' folder on the CD during the installation and fails
(it of course can't write the to CD).  I know the user could copy my
files onto his hard drive and then install the package, but I'm trying
to make the installation as simple as possible.  So... is there a way
to tell distutils to use the hard drive when it's being run from a CD?

Thanks.

Bob



From shane at ZOPE.COM  Tue Jul  8 12:08:22 2003
From: shane at ZOPE.COM (Shane Hathaway)
Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 12:08:22 -0400
Subject: __eq__ and __ne__
In-Reply-To: <BIEJKCLHCIOIHAGOKOLHAEFCGDAA.tim@zope.com>
References: <BIEJKCLHCIOIHAGOKOLHAEFCGDAA.tim@zope.com>
Message-ID: <3F0AEC76.8080304@zope.com>

Tim Peters wrote:
> Since the richcmp operators aren't constrained to return scalars, an attempt
> to define one in terms of the others seemed futile.  Instead they're 6
> independent methods.

Ok.  Thanks for finding the docs.  I guess I'll stick to my boilerplate 
code.  I think some guidance should be added to the Python docs, though, 
explaining that whenever you define __eq__, you very likely ought to 
define __ne__ also.

Shane





From creedy at mitretek.org  Tue Jul 15 10:52:05 2003
From: creedy at mitretek.org (Chris Reedy)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 10:52:05 -0400
Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re=3A_Python_Mystery_Theatre_--_Episode?=
 =?ISO-8859-1?Q?_2=3A__As=ED__Fue?=
In-Reply-To: <c76ff6fc.0307150456.59d8440@posting.google.com>
References: <VorQa.15236$Kw1.587@nwrdny02.gnilink.net> <8f35dab2.0307141258.3da9b9d4@posting.google.com> <PGJQa.485$LW3.252@nwrdny02.gnilink.net> <6qvfu4jgh1.fsf@salmakis.intevation.de> <m4UoZJA308E$EwjN@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> <c76ff6fc.0307150456.59d8440@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3f141512_2@corp-news.newsgroups.com>

John Machin wrote:
> Robin Becker <robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message news:<m4UoZJA308E$EwjN at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>...
> 
>> [snip]
 >>
>>I know that it's in microsoft
>>
>>the print width description contains
>>
>>[snip]
> 
> 
> It's pretty much bog-standard C. E.g. K&R2, appendix B, section 1.2
> says:
> [snip]

Just for reference purposes: This behavior is part of the C-standard. 
See section 7.19.6.1, "The fprintf function", in ISO/IEC 9899:1999.




From faizan at jaredweb.com  Mon Jul 28 21:42:24 2003
From: faizan at jaredweb.com (Fazer)
Date: 28 Jul 2003 18:42:24 -0700
Subject: Python vs. Perl vs. PHP?
References: <7b454334.0307281002.41dae81b@posting.google.com> <bg3qkk$lmr$05$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <7b454334.0307281742.10274598@posting.google.com>

"Diez B. Roggisch" <deets_noospaam at web.de> wrote in message news:<bg3qkk$lmr$05$1 at news.t-online.com>...
> Fazer wrote:
> 
> > Hello,
> > 
> > I am an avid user of PHP and I am just fooling around with Python for
> > now.  I originally wanted to know which one is faster.  As in, works
> > faster.  So far, I think PHP is the fastest for dynamic web-content.
> > Am I wrong?
> 
> Definitely. See here:
> 
> http://www.bagley.org/~doug/shootout/craps.shtml
> 
> Python is place 13, with a speed index of 578. PHP is second last (before
> bash) and has a speed index of 197.
> 
> Besides that, PHP is a really ugly language - not only to the eye (which is
> admittedly a matter of taste), but a friend of mine currently implements a
> PHP->C-Compiler had delved deep into the language implementation - and it
> _is_ ugly.
> 
> I expirienced mayor flaws in PHP 4.0.x, where my declared functions in a
> 6000 line include vanished from time to time - repeating the request
> sometimes solved the problem. That was really nasty.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Diez

Wow, thanks for link!  I will use it as hard proof to lure some of my
friends in using Python! ;-)

This is a little off-topic, but I wish to know how would you turn a
string (or data from a text-file) into an array?  For example, maybe
turn each \n into an array.

So a string like:

"This is line 1
This is line 2
This is line 3"

And so when you read that into a list called text text[0] would the
"This is line 1".

Thank you once again.



From http  Fri Jul 25 03:54:38 2003
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 25 Jul 2003 00:54:38 -0700
Subject: file.close()
References: <edITa.131868$Ph3.17333@sccrnsc04> <mailman.1059052897.16526.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <7xhe5b82ip.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Francois Pinard <pinard at iro.umontreal.ca> writes:
> For one, I systematically avoid cluttering my code with unneeded `close'.
> The advantages are simplicity and legibility, both utterly important to me.
> ...
> The only reason to call `close' explicitly is when there is a need to close
> prematurely.  Absolutely no doubt that such needs exist at times.  But
> closing all the time "just in case" is symptomatic of unsure programming.
> Or else, it is using Python while still thinking in other languages.

Unfortunately Python doesn't guarantee that you won't leak file
descriptors that way.  CPython happens to gc them when the last
reference disappears, and your willingness to patch the code if you
move to a different implementation may be workable for you (that's
something only you can decide).  But if you want to write correct code
in the current Python spec, you have to include those messy close's.

I think a much better solution would involve a language extension,
maybe a macro in some hypothetical macro extension for Python.  E.g.

    with f = open(frob):
      [do stuff with f]

could be equivalent to:

   f = open(frob)
   try:
     [do stuff with f]
   finally:
     f.done()                   # calls f.close()
     del f

"done" here is a generic method that gets called on exiting a "with"
block.  



From lol at lolmcNOSPAM.com  Fri Jul  4 17:04:54 2003
From: lol at lolmcNOSPAM.com (Rogue 9)
Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 22:04:54 +0100
Subject: Sorry about import problem multiple post
Message-ID: <3f05ebe1@shknews01>

I'm so sorry I'm using Pan v0.13.0 and it was doing screwy things when I
tried to postfrom my sendlater folder.I re wrote the post but it went awry
again and now I find multiple copies of my posts on the server.
Please accept my apologies folks.
Lol McBride

-- 
Remove NOSPAM from my email address to use it,please.




From fredrik at pythonware.com  Tue Jul  1 18:28:23 2003
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 00:28:23 +0200
Subject: Question regarding naming convention
References: <1056988215.49928.0@iris.uk.clara.net> <m1_La.1613$eF3.213194@news20.bellglobal.com> <1057062415.13616.0@doris.uk.clara.net>
Message-ID: <bdt1tp$2eu$1@main.gmane.org>

"michael" wrote:

> Both of the above seem to overcomplicate the syntax. Of the two,
> I prefer the second, but I'm sure I've read on c.l.py that the from.
> import.. version is not a preferred way of doing things.

"from ... import *" is usually a bad idea.

"from SomeClass import SomeClass" is an excellent idea.

more here:

    http://effbot.org/zone/import-confusion.htm

</F>







From LogiplexSoftware at earthlink.net  Thu Jul 10 16:45:52 2003
From: LogiplexSoftware at earthlink.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: 10 Jul 2003 13:45:52 -0700
Subject: sort() doesn't work on dist.keys() ?
In-Reply-To: <6cd58b6.0307101214.34e99f2a@posting.google.com>
References: <6cd58b6.0307101214.34e99f2a@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1057869952.16636.12.camel@software1.logiplex.internal>

On Thu, 2003-07-10 at 13:14, Steve Pinard wrote:
> (Got a comm error trying to post first time, sorry if this
> is a duplicate)
> 
> New to Python, so please bear with me.
> 
> >>> import sys
> >>> print sys.modules.keys()          # works fine
> ['code', ...snip... ]
> >>> print sys.modules.keys().sort()   # returns None, why?
> None
> 
> According to my reference (Nutshell), keys() returns a
> "copy" of the dict keys as a list, so I would expect when
> I aply sort() to that list, I would get an in-place sorted
> version of that list.  Why do I get None?

Because sort() sorts the list in-place.  It doesn't return anything
(which in Python means it returns None).

Try this instead:

keys = sys.modules.keys()
keys.sort()
print keys

-- 
Cliff Wells, Software Engineer
Logiplex Corporation (www.logiplex.net)
(503) 978-6726  (800) 735-0555





From LogiplexSoftware at earthlink.net  Mon Jul  7 14:41:19 2003
From: LogiplexSoftware at earthlink.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: 07 Jul 2003 11:41:19 -0700
Subject: Threading issue:  [Error 9]: bad file descriptor
In-Reply-To: <1G7Oa.376746$ro6.9153831@news2.calgary.shaw.ca>
References: <KaQNa.394960$Vi5.10189553@news1.calgary.shaw.ca>
	 <mailman.1057519510.8812.python-list@python.org>
	 <1G7Oa.376746$ro6.9153831@news2.calgary.shaw.ca>
Message-ID: <1057603279.14514.4.camel@software1.logiplex.internal>

On Sun, 2003-07-06 at 22:37, Kevin wrote:
> My oversight, thanks!
> 
> I'm testing on Windows 2000 Professional, but have had other users report
> the same problem on other Windows flavours (NT, 98).

I experienced a similar problem a few years ago (on Windows NT Server). 
A long-running threaded application would sporadically raise an
exception when writing to a log file.  Never figured out the cause, but
"solved" it by catching the exception and reopening the file (IIRC).

Regards,

-- 
Cliff Wells, Software Engineer
Logiplex Corporation (www.logiplex.net)
(503) 978-6726  (800) 735-0555





From loiosh13 at yahoo.com  Mon Jul  7 00:04:32 2003
From: loiosh13 at yahoo.com (Tim Isakson)
Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 04:04:32 GMT
Subject: Newbie question: Strange TypeError
Message-ID: <pan.2003.07.07.04.09.36.145173@yahoo.com>

Howdy,

I'm a new python programmer - new to python, not so much to programming - 
my background was mainly C, with some C++, but it's rusty.  

I'm learning python to try and get back into some coding,
and am running into a problem - I'm writing a calculator in python and
wxPython as an exercise to learn both, and the following problem is
leaving me baffled.

I have an event handler, and it's getting called fine - but within the
event handler, I'm calling a class method, HandleInput.  The definition
and call are shown below:

    def HandleInput(self, input):
        if self.results.GetValue() == "0":
            return input
        elif newVal == True:
            return input
        else:
            tmpVal = self.results.GetValue() + input
            return tmpVal

    def OnButton1(self,e):
        tmpVal = self.HandleInput(self, "1")
        self.results.SetValue(tmpVal)

The call to HandleInput is made, but I get the following error:

Calling HandleInput(self, '1')
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "pycalc.py", line 115, in OnButton1
    tmpVal = self.HandleInput(self, "1")
TypeError: HandleInput() takes exactly 2 arguments (3 given)

So far as I can tell, the offending call *IS* calling HandleInput with 2
arguments, but the interpreter obviously thinks different, and I'm at a
loss as to why that might be.

I'm sure I'm doing something odd and not noticing, and I'd appreciate any
help you can provide!

Thanks in advance,

Tim



From owski at hotmail.com  Tue Jul 15 13:33:17 2003
From: owski at hotmail.com (Adam Ruth)
Date: 15 Jul 2003 10:33:17 -0700
Subject: anything like C++ references?
References: <000301c348c7$3c501980$21795418@dell1700> <jf22hvotj4n0q5tpkg627e3jv61norf93n@4ax.com> <3F11106A.65FDA8F2@alcyone.com> <iqm2hvs77lhe1m71v9b579070khbf0uv0a@4ax.com> <berqqd$ad5$1@panix3.panix.com> <brs2hv8edfv0d1fch9mha8otuulajnkh0g@4ax.com> <8vd6hv0sdvoitccmnj4pdj66ss2vg4ii3n@4ax.com> <5ir6hvof9m5rjh6i3u992l91un21qtmsh4@4ax.com> <9iu6hv4r968o9s1n5fh887u2j7an94de4e@4ax.com> <vjv6hv03dfrooog8jsotnr1eu4a8j3hr17@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <f0f51c80.0307150933.7d8894cd@posting.google.com>

Stephen Horne <intentionally at blank.co.uk> wrote in message news:<vjv6hv03dfrooog8jsotnr1eu4a8j3hr17 at 4ax.com>...
> On Mon, 14 Jul 2003 20:57:44 -0700, Tom Plunket <tomas at fancy.org>
> wrote:
> 
> >Stephen Horne wrote:
> >
> >> >Are they really technicalities, though?  I mean, a mutable object
> >> >can be changed.  It's the same object, just changed.  Immutable
> >> >objects, however, can't be changed.  You can get something that
> >> >appears like changing it, but it's actually building a new thing
> >> >and binding the label to that new thing.
> >> 
> >> Yes. But the thing being changed *is* an object, *not* a value. Values
> >> are always immutable - basic fact of mathematics.
> >
> >Sure, but we're not modelling pure mathematics, we're modelling a
> >level of abstraction that's appropriate for the problem that
> >we're solving.
> 
> If that were true, the abstraction would not regularly be causing
> confusion and errors, and it would not be a recurring issue on this
> newsgroup.

There's two types of confustion:  

1) Confusion about abstraction itself.  It's complex for people to
grasp, that's true of *any* language.  Programming is hard, that's
just a fact of life.

2) Cross language confusion.  Anyone moving from one language to
another will have confusion, depending on how different it is.  People
coming from Smalltalk or Ruby to Python don't get confused about this
issue, they get confused about other things.  This is a big confusion
for C and C++ programmers, but other things make perfect sense.

You're reading too much into this confusion, as though it means
there's something wrong with the Python implementation.  If we all
jumped onto an analog computer, I'm sure we'd all be flustered because
it's not like the digital computing we're used to.  But some of us
wouldn't cry foul at how the analogs are going about doing it all
wrong.

Adam Ruth



From howard at eegsoftware.com  Fri Jul  4 15:49:36 2003
From: howard at eegsoftware.com (Howard Lightstone)
Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 19:49:36 GMT
Subject: RTS/CTS and DTR/DTS control
References: <pan.2003.07.04.19.37.02.310028@kordik.net>
Message-ID: <Xns93AE82873375Ahowardeegsoftwarecom@66.75.162.198>

"Mike" <mike at kordik.net> wrote in 
news:pan.2003.07.04.19.37.02.310028 at kordik.net:

> Is there a library in Python that will give me control over the
> handshaking lines directly?
> 
> Thanks
> 

For Windoze, I heartily recommend siomodule.  
( http://starship.python.net/crew/roger )

This is a wrapper around a well-designed professional serial I/O package.  
The Python version includes the dll for free (when used with Python).



From tim.one at comcast.net  Thu Jul  3 21:06:09 2003
From: tim.one at comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 21:06:09 -0400
Subject: A possible bug in python threading/time module?
In-Reply-To: <c09aca51.0307031341.6f51cc3@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCGELJEMAB.tim.one@comcast.net>

[Tim]
>> If you run "enough" threads, chances are high you'll eventually run
>> into a platform thread bug on any platform -- but into different
>> platform bugs on different platforms.  You didn't say which OS or
>> platform thread library you were using, and those are probably the
>> only things that matter.
>>
>> Here's a simplified and generalized minor rewrite of the above, with
>> a comment about what happens under Win2K and 2.3b2.  I've got no
>> interest in chasing it down, since it's hung in the bowels of a
>> Windows DLL and there's no evidence of a Python bug:
>>
>> """
>> import time
>> import threading
>>
>> # One thread hung at the end on Win2K at N == 2011. # No problem if
>> N < 2011. N = 2011
>> sem = threading.Semaphore(N)
>>
>> class MyThread(threading.Thread):
>>     def __init__(self):
>>         threading.Thread.__init__(self)
>>         sem.acquire()
>>
>>     def run(self):
>>         time.sleep(5)
>>         sem.release()
>>
>> for i in range(2*N):
>>     MyThread().start()
>> """

[vm_usenet]
> I tried it on Windows 2000 and XP.

"It" means the program above, or something else?  What happened?

> I guess it could be a platform-specific bug, but it still disturbs me
> because I later programmed the same thing in C - and it worked
> perfectly.

Without seeing your C code I'm afraid this doesn't say anything -- "same
thing" has got to be stretching the truth in ways that can't be guessed.

> It's a long-shot, but I guess somewhere the bug is caused
> due to a misuse by the python runtime (or perhaps an inefficient use)
> of the platform-specific threading facilities...

Dig into it, then.  All Python's synch gimmicks are built on the Python
lock, which is a cross-platform abstraction.  On Windows, the implementation
of the Python lock is in Python/thread_nt.h.  No bugs have been reported
against it, but that doesn't mean it doesn't have any.  If you find one,
that would be great.

I expect there may be a bug *somewhere* in Python because a few thousand
threads is really far fewer than I expect to create trouble on Windows.  The
evidence I saw suggested the program actually finished all its "useful"
work, and got hung in threading.py's _MainThread.__exitfunc(), waiting to
join one of the worker threads at Python shutdown time.





From c-b-o-o-m-e-r at tiscali.co.uk  Fri Jul 25 09:38:29 2003
From: c-b-o-o-m-e-r at tiscali.co.uk (Christopher Boomer (don't dash!))
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 14:38:29 +0100
Subject: DOM as a flat dictionary
Message-ID: <3f21335a_2@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com>

Until now I have been using XSLT to translate from a known foreign XML
format to a local XML format for import to Postgres.  Now I need to be able
to let others define the relationship from new foreign documents using a
gui.

My thought was to generate a flat dictionary representation of the foreign
and local formats with the absolute Xpath expression as dictionary key.  The
user is presented with a list of elements&attributes in the local file and
asked to select the foreign element|attribute fills that role.  I could then
use the keys from this mapping to generate XSLT which can be stored.

Using dictionary keys means that duplicate elements will be lost, but this
is not problematic since I am attempting to map the structure not the
content.  What are the other implications of this approach?  Or is there an
easier way to do what that I cannot find in Google?

And has anyone written such a thing, even in part?

Many thanks,
Christopher Boomer
Belfast.





From chatralias at aol.com  Sun Jul 20 12:20:18 2003
From: chatralias at aol.com (Chatralias)
Date: 20 Jul 2003 16:20:18 GMT
Subject: (mini-)ANN: Document for Python LaTeX setup
References: <bfa30t$ctqne$2@ID-139865.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <20030720122018.09823.00000328@mb-m11.aol.com>

TYPOS 
I only found one.
>From: Dave Kuhlman dkuhlman at rexx.com
>I've written a document ...


2.1 Step 1 -- Install the Python Source 
You will the source distribution for Python...
            ^
           need

Thanks Dave, from your target audience (dare I speak for us all) 
for the Great job. This is just what I needed.

Ray St.Marie
RASTM2 at aol.com





From max at alcyone.com  Mon Jul 14 03:07:44 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 00:07:44 -0700
Subject: anything like C++ references?
References: <b8c3hvsesjoumiboobml3nsnajtha99mp1@4ax.com> <mailman.1058129901.28248.python-list@python.org> <plk3hv0s1m2egf4s34jo6vjedk0q8r2mu9@4ax.com> <m365m6ul5c.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <mailman.1058145500.19181.python-list@python.org> <e464hvcq48q3240ecfcs6jqhqf616q7v1a@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3F1256C0.4BDC816F@alcyone.com>

Stephen Horne wrote:

> Imagine, for instance, changing all assignments and other 'copying' to
> use a copy-on-write system. Then add a pointer type and a 'newcopyof'
> operator. And nick the C-style prefix '*' for dereferencing and add
> '&' as a 'make a pointer to this object' operator (absolutely NOT a
> physical memory address).

The problem is that this misses the point that Python is not C++.  You
shouldn't try grafting syntaxes and approaches that make Python look
more like C++, you should be learning to use Python on its own merits.

If what you want is a "pointer" -- something which encapsulates a
reference to some other object which can be changed -- then you can do
this very easily in Python through containment (either the
single-element list, or a dedicated, and thus probably more clear,
Container class like I gave at the outset of this thread).  You're
saying you want something which misses the point of Python's handling of
variables:  Variables are not slots where objects are placed, their
Post-It notes you can paste onto objects.  Post-It notes can be added
and removed at will, and some names can be different in different
scopes.

Everything is handled the same way; it's just that some objects are
mutable in Python and some are not.  You can say that immutability is
_equivalent_ to having those types of objects treated separately, but
that's not the same thing as them _actually_ being treated differently,
because as it's been made clear here they are not.  You're drawing an
arbitrary line in the sand, but the line you're drawing is in the wrong
place (assignment doesn't work differently on mutable and immutable
objects -- with the exception of the extended += operators mentioned
earlier) and is not particularly arbitrary.  Already examples of C code
that will choke based on their implicit immutability, mentioned nowhere
in the code by use of const, has been given; that makes C++'s mutability
issues far more arbitrary than Python's!

Or, to put it another way, if you want to program in C++, why not use
C++?

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ A life without festivity is a long road without an inn.
\__/  Democritus



From skip at pobox.com  Tue Jul  8 10:03:15 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 09:03:15 -0500
Subject: path module
In-Reply-To: <r01050400-1026-3A869FC5B14B11D7A953003065D5E7E4@[10.0.0.23]>
References: <16138.51270.256713.554899@montanaro.dyndns.org>
        <r01050400-1026-3A869FC5B14B11D7A953003065D5E7E4@[10.0.0.23]>
Message-ID: <16138.53027.356511.290162@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    >> a/b/c/d
    >> 
    >> is nicely analogous to Unix pathname syntax.

    Just> But when the items are variables, what you read is not what you
    Just> get.  Often you'll want (some) literals, and then you get

    Just>     path = basePath/"a"/"b"/"c"

    Just> ...and _that_ I find quite horrible...

I don't know for sure, but I suspect the above could also be

    path = basePath/"a/b/c"

Still not perfect, but in any case, the '/' is meant to be suggestive, not
literal.  Perhaps you would have preferred he use ':'? ;-)

    Just> (Did I mention that / usually means divide in Python? ;-)

Sure, just like '%' means modulo in Python, but it seems to have found a
home in printf-style string expansion.

Skip




From gherron at islandtraining.com  Thu Jul 24 15:02:45 2003
From: gherron at islandtraining.com (Gary Herron)
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 12:02:45 -0700
Subject: Mystery Theater New Style Classes
In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20030724100432.01d9d460@66.28.54.253>
References: <5.2.1.1.0.20030724100432.01d9d460@66.28.54.253>
Message-ID: <200307241202.45258.gherron@islandtraining.com>

On Thursday 24 July 2003 09:05 am, Bob Gailer wrote:
> Predict the output:
>
> class A(int):
>      classval = 99
>      def __init__(self, val = 0):
>          if val:
>              self = val
>          else:
>              self = A.classval
> a=A(3)
> b=A()
> print a,b
>
> Bob Gailer
> bgailer at alum.rpi.edu
> 303 442 2625

Since A this is a subclass of int, an immutable type, the asignment to
'self' is a red herring -- it has no affect.  That's clearer here:

>>> class A(int):
...   def __init__(self, val):
...     print 'Initial value of self:', self
...     self = 'Huh?'
...     print 'Final value of self:', self
...
>>> a = A(123)
Initial value of self: 123
Final value of self: Huh?
>>> print a
123

For immutable types, you need to create the object with the proper
value a little earlier in the creation process, and that's where the
method __new__ comes in.  This works as expected:

>>> class A(int):
...      classval = 99
...      def __new__(cls, val = 0):
...          if val:
...              return int.__new__(cls, val)
...          else:
...              return int.__new__(cls, A.classval)
...
>>> a=A(3)
>>> b=A()
>>> print a,b
3 99
>>>


See

  http://www.python.org/2.2/descrintro.html#__new__ 

for more details.

Gary Herron






From alanmk at hotmail.com  Thu Jul 24 15:12:15 2003
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 20:12:15 +0100
Subject: running python
References: <bfp9uh$76a$1@news7.svr.pol.co.uk>
Message-ID: <3F202F8F.6B00EC0C@hotmail.com>

Iain Macalister wrote:

> How do you run files written with python if you don't have the
> compiler and stuff on your computer?

Unfortunately, that's not possible.

Although a compiler is not required to run python programs, some
python stuff (namely a "python virtual machine") is required (the
distinction between compiler and VM is possibly not important to you). 

Tangent: To give a comparison, trying to run a python program without
a python VM is comparable to running Pentium programs without a
Pentium CPU. It can be done (a man called Turing said so), but it's a
lot of hard work that you probably wouldn't want to get into.

However, I would strongly encourage you to install python on your
system and run your software that way. It's really rather easy and
painless.

If your requirement is to install and run python programs on other
peoples computers, then there are several ways to bundle your python
programs and the virtual machine + support libraries into a single
distributable file, such that the end user doesn't even know python is
in use. If this is your intention, check on py2exe, the McMillan
installer, freeze, squeeze, etc.

I do believe the FAQ entry about distribution can be found here

http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw.py?req=show&file=faq04.028.htp

HTH,

-- 
alan kennedy
-----------------------------------------------------
check http headers here: http://xhaus.com/headers
email alan:              http://xhaus.com/mailto/alan



From ianb at colorstudy.com  Fri Jul 18 02:39:39 2003
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: 18 Jul 2003 01:39:39 -0500
Subject: How do I get info on an exception ?
In-Reply-To: <fc07672ed11f5dcad539bcf9bf0d051f@news.1usenet.com>
References: <fc07672ed11f5dcad539bcf9bf0d051f@news.1usenet.com>
Message-ID: <1058510379.11535.1525.camel@lothlorien>

On Fri, 2003-07-18 at 01:33, Frank wrote:
> Using Python 2.2.2,
> I want to catch all exceptions from "socket.gethostbyaddr(ip)"
> 
> >From IDLE, I can generate:
> >>> socket.gethostbyaddr('1.2')
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<pyshell#28>", line 1, in ?
>     socket.gethostbyaddr('1.2')
> herror: (11004, 'host not found')   <=== what I want when I catch

> When I run this code:
>         try:
>             hostname, aliases, hostip = socket.gethostbyaddr(ip)
>             return (hostip, hostname)
>         except:
>             print sys.exc_info()
>             print sys.exc_type
>             return

try:
    do exceptional stuff...
except Exception, e:
    print e.args, dir(e)

Probably that information is just in e.args, but you can add other
attributes to exceptions, any of which should be revealed by dir(e).

Exceptions are poorly documented, so I don't know where that might be
noted.

  Ian






From vincent_delft at yahoo.com  Sat Jul 26 18:27:47 2003
From: vincent_delft at yahoo.com (vincent_delft)
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 00:27:47 +0200
Subject: Web tool kit : pro - cons ?
Message-ID: <3f23003f$0$266$ba620e4c@reader0.news.skynet.be>

I'm looking for a Web Tool kit to build web pages with the following
criteria (in priority order) :
- easy to use, develop (reuseability of code, ...)
- flexible (ideally should run with Python CGIHTTPServer and/or with Apache
(with or wihout mod_python)
- possibility to have load balancing and/or caching (for very high loaded
web pages) 

I've founded lot of tools ... 

I've read the doc of most  of them, I've tested some of them.  
But, is there anyone "experienced user" who can give the pro-cons for each
of those solutions ? (or propose an another)

Is there a site who list the main charateristics of each of those Web tool
kit ?

Thanks


Zope (www.zope.org),
SkunkWeb (http://skunkweb.sourceforge.net/),
Quixote (http://www.mems-exchange.org/software/quixote/),
Twisted (http://www.twistedmatrix.com/)
Albatross (http://www.object-craft.com.au/projects/albatross/)
Cherrypy (...)
pwo (...)
...




From john_taylor_1973 at yahoo.com  Sun Jul  6 21:37:53 2003
From: john_taylor_1973 at yahoo.com (John Taylor)
Date: 6 Jul 2003 18:37:53 -0700
Subject: Server Push
References: <be2che$6ng$1@sparta.btinternet.com> <3f05b7ab$0$49103$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl> <bea2qv$jiv$1@sparta.btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <fc30bff.0307061737.5a10d85c@posting.google.com>

John,

You could always write a Java applet.  If the applet used something
like a progress bar, the server-side program could notify the applet
when to increase the progress bar percentage.  Another way to do it,
would be for the applet to poll the server every few seconds by having
it make a http connection to a 'quick-running' cgi that would tell the
applet the status.  Based on this result, the progress bar would (or
would not) be updated.

You may also be able to write the applet in Jython, too.

Good luck...let everyone know how you decide to implement your
solution.
John Taylor


"John Bradbury" <john_bradbury at ___cableinet.co.uk> wrote in message news:<bea2qv$jiv$1 at sparta.btinternet.com>...
> I have used the Netscape examples and can not get them work.  I am using
> Windows and have tried Omnicron and XITAMI servers.  What is frustraing me
> is that I can achieve the desired result in Delphi by simply using :
> response.sendresponse;
> request.writestring('progress line');
> 
> I was hoping to find similar functionality in Python.
> 
> John
> 
> 
> "Irmen de Jong" <irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl> wrote in message
> news:3f05b7ab$0$49103$e4fe514c at news.xs4all.nl...
> > John Bradbury wrote:
> > > I want to send updates from a long running cgi.  I have tried copying
>  perl
> > > examples of server push and can not get them to work.
> > > Does anyone have an idiot proof example of a working server push or
>  sending
> > > output in chunks in Python?
> >
> > Check out: http://wp.netscape.com/assist/net_sites/pushpull.html
> >
> > There are basically two ways to do this. Either use the
> > above mentioned "multipart response", which only seems to work on
> > certain browsers (confirmed on netscape and mozilla, IE doesn't seem
> > to work). The other method is just flushing your output and
> > continue to write more data... but this won't allow you to
> > 'clear the page' in the client's browser (multipart repsonses will).
> >
> > --Irmen
> >



From LogiplexSoftware at earthlink.net  Tue Jul  8 15:55:16 2003
From: LogiplexSoftware at earthlink.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: 08 Jul 2003 12:55:16 -0700
Subject: id = -1 in wxpython
In-Reply-To: <3F0B204A.20004@mac.com>
References: <3F0B204A.20004@mac.com>
Message-ID: <1057694115.5396.73.camel@software1.logiplex.internal>

On Tue, 2003-07-08 at 12:49, Luiz Siqueira Neto wrote:
> id -1 for some object mean that this object have a default id, but how I 
> can work with this kind of id?

object.GetId()

-- 
Cliff Wells, Software Engineer
Logiplex Corporation (www.logiplex.net)
(503) 978-6726  (800) 735-0555





From tjreedy at udel.edu  Sun Jul 13 17:16:08 2003
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 17:16:08 -0400
Subject: anything like C++ references?
References: <13t0hvsb7idh0g6ac3upe5k0qd6flc17ah@4ax.com> <pan.2003.07.13.10.58.11.376531@127.0.0.1> <lq-cnWRG9rRuMIyiXTWJjQ@comcast.com> <b8c3hvsesjoumiboobml3nsnajtha99mp1@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <c0OdnUqJruWEUYyiU-KYuQ@comcast.com>

"Stephen Horne" <intentionally at blank.co.uk> wrote in message
news:b8c3hvsesjoumiboobml3nsnajtha99mp1 at 4ax.com...
> On Sun, 13 Jul 2003 15:07:23 -0400, "Terry Reedy" <tjreedy at udel.edu>
> wrote:
>
> >How a particular interpreter performs name binding is its own
> >business, as long as the specified semantics are implemented.
>
> You could use the same argument to rationalise a language which used
> the + operator to express subtraction.

Bogus comparison with name binding.  I am not aware that Python does
anything quite so backwards.

> The fact is that 'assignment' has a common meaning separate from the
> choice of programming language, and that the way Python handles name
> binding means that meaning is not respected by Python for mutable
> objects.

>From what others have posted, Python is not the only language in which
'name=object' means "assign 'name' to that object".  This is much
closer to the common idea of object having names than the idea that
names can only name value holders (blocks of linear memory) and not
values or objects themselves.

Terry J. Reedy





From someone at somewhere.com  Sun Jul 27 13:54:15 2003
From: someone at somewhere.com (reh)
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 17:54:15 GMT
Subject: eric3, pyqt, qscintilla - guru needed.
References: <tKPUa.121681$Io.10389062@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <PdRUa.121775$Io.10395818@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <k7edv-8i2.ln1@stargate.solsys.priv>
Message-ID: <blUUa.121951$Io.10413419@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>

Detlev Offenbach wrote:

> reh wrote:
> 
>> reh wrote:
>> 
>>> Have installed on Redhat 9.0 in the following order;
>>> 
>>> Qscintilla
>>> sip
>>> PyQt
>>> 
>>> When I install eric3 (python install.py), I get this error;
>>>   Sorry, please install QScintilla and/or reinstall
>>>   PyQt with QScintilla support.
>>> 
>>> It seems the errors occurs in the install.py file at:
>>>   from qtext import QextScintilla
>>> 
>>> From qtext.py, I have typed in at the python prompt;
>>>   >>> import libsip               # ok here
>>>   >>> from qt import QWidet       # ok here
>>>   >>> from qt import QObject      # ok here
>>>   >>> from qt import QPrinter     # ok here
>>>   >>> import libqtextc            # error here
>>>   Traceback (most recent call last):
>>>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
>>>   ImportError: libqscintilla.so.2: cannot open shared object file: No
>>>   such
>>> file or directory
>>>   >>>
>>> 
>>> Been through all readme files, tried just about everything.
>>> Anyone have an idea what's wrong.
>>> 
>> Forgot to say that the libqscintilla.so.2 is in;
>>   /usr/lib/qt-3.1/lib
>> and the same path is in my /etc/ld.so.conf
> 
> Did you do a "ldconfig" after the installation of qscintilla?
> 
> Detlev

That did it. Thanks!!!

On first observation eric looks really nice, well done.

Can't wait to dig in.

thanks;
-- 
robert
redhat 9.0




From tchur at optushome.com.au  Sat Jul  5 19:13:29 2003
From: tchur at optushome.com.au (Tim Churches)
Date: 06 Jul 2003 09:13:29 +1000
Subject: Bewildered graphs
In-Reply-To: <3F06BF7C.8DC6A978@noaa.gov>
References: <3F06BF7C.8DC6A978@noaa.gov>
Message-ID: <1057446809.1204.20.camel@emilio>

On Sat, 2003-07-05 at 22:07, Mark Fenbers wrote:
> I am investigating Python for the sake of ultimately generating hydrographs
> (such as this: http://ahps.erh.noaa.gov/iln/ahps/RiverDat/gifs/prgo1.png)
> on-the-fly from a web server cluster.  I have not used Python previously and do
> not yet know if Python is very useful for this or if I am wasting my time.
> 
> Quite frankly, I am a little bewildered.  Not only is there Python, but there
> are many extention modules which cloud up my view as to what I will need.
> There's Scientific Python, which sounds promising, but there's also SciPy which
> in itself has gnuplot, xplt and plt modules.  I know enough about gnuplot to
> know that it won't meet my needs because I need to be able to shade regions
> above certain values such as done in yellow on the example hydrograph (the link
> above).  It also doesn't have many font options or the ability to place an image
> such as the NOAA logo.
> 
> Can someone kindly guide me as to what I would most likely need to replicate the
> graph shown via the link above?

There are indeed many options. But you might want to have a look at the
delightfully named Ploticus (starring Russell Crowe...) at
http://ploticus.sourceforge.net/doc/Welcome.html

There is no Python interface for it, but Python is an ideal tool for
building Ploticus scripts on-the-fly and running Ploticus to create the
graphs on the Web server.

However, Ploticus has recently become available as a callable library
(libploticus) with a very simple C API which is just crying out for a
Python wrapper - and a set of Python classes to abstract the interface
on top of that. I would be happy to contribute to such a project, but am
not able to undertake the construction of a C language wrapper.

If you also need statistical analysis, I can recommend RPy (see
http://rpy.sf.net) which embeds the R statistical package in Python. R
does very, very nice graphics in all sorts of styles (see
http://www.r-project.org), although it can be overkill for some Web
server applications. Ploticus is very lightweight by comparison.

-- 

Tim C

PGP/GnuPG Key 1024D/EAF993D0 available from keyservers everywhere
or at http://members.optushome.com.au/tchur/pubkey.asc
Key fingerprint = 8C22 BF76 33BA B3B5 1D5B  EB37 7891 46A9 EAF9 93D0


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From adalke at mindspring.com  Sun Jul 13 16:48:39 2003
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 14:48:39 -0600
Subject: mailbox_reader 1.0.2 -- Python module to read UNIX mailboxes sequentially.
References: <mailman.1058008218.28808.python-list@python.org> <bepqgn$fkc$1@slb9.atl.mindspring.net> <mailman.1058090959.10232.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <besgbg$ad6$1@slb9.atl.mindspring.net>

Me:
> > What does this do that the standard Python library doesn't support?

Grzegorz Adam Hankiewicz
> * python 1.5.2 support.
> * [round-tripping]
   ...

Could you include those points in your documentation?  It
helps others to understand when to look at your library vs.
some other library.

                    Andrew
                    dalke at dalkescientific.com





From davecook at nowhere.net  Sun Jul  6 14:13:07 2003
From: davecook at nowhere.net (David M. Cook)
Date: Sun, 06 Jul 2003 18:13:07 GMT
Subject: Red Hat 9, Python and Glade - a mixure not working?
References: <c7427279.0307050724.147536d1@posting.google.com> <d2HNa.427458$3n5.51831@news2.central.cox.net> <c7427279.0307060306.1345e06@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <TEZNa.452699$3n5.136738@news2.central.cox.net>

In article <c7427279.0307060306.1345e06 at posting.google.com>, Hans Deragon wrote:


> Thanks for the tips.  But the problem still persist.  Now I run the
> following:

Do you have gnome widgets in your xml file?  You'll need to import gnome.ui
and do a gnome.init().

See the pygtk FAQ:

http://www.async.com.br/faq/pygtk/index.py?req=all

You might also try putting the line

import pygtk; pygtk.require('2.0')

at the top of your file.  Also try running with python -v so you can see
what modules are being loaded.

> So the problem is not my code.  I must assume that the glade module
> for gnome is not adapted for taking in Glade 2 xml?

In fact, libglade2 *only* works with glade 2 files.  glade 1 files have to
be converted first.  

> Different errors, same results.  Nothing works.  However the
> test.glade xml file provided as an example works fine.  I believe that
> there is some widget in my glade2 xml file that is simply not
> supported by python.  I will investigate further the issue later.

I've never encountered this problem with my own glade 2 files.  However, I
don't have a "pristine" RH 9 installation to play with right now.

I suggest taking this problem to the pygtk mailing list.  If it's not
quickly fixable then it needs to be fixed somewhere up the line.

Dave Cook



From maxm at mxm.dk  Mon Jul  7 06:42:31 2003
From: maxm at mxm.dk (Max M)
Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 12:42:31 +0200
Subject: Collective memory (was: Good code patterns in Python)
In-Reply-To: <3F08E2E9.8014B9A9@engcorp.com>
References: <mailman.1057515551.18489.python-list@python.org> <3F08E2E9.8014B9A9@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <3f094dfd$0$97234$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk>

Peter Hansen wrote:

> Actually, the moral is "use a revision control system".  Anyone not doing
> so should not be programming professionally.(*)

> *) I speak as someone who programmed professionally without using a good
> revision control system, for a while, and made some serious mistakes
> as a result.  Backups are *not* sufficient, but merely a slight step
> up from doing nothing at all.


Arh ... that will never happen to me ... If you start using CVS systems, 
whats next? Anti Virus software? Raid systems? backups? It will never 
end. It's all just expenses.


regards Max M




From sybrenUSE at YOURthirdtower.imagination.com  Mon Jul 14 18:01:51 2003
From: sybrenUSE at YOURthirdtower.imagination.com (Sybren Stuvel)
Date: 14 Jul 2003 22:01:51 GMT
Subject: PyQT, Sharp Zaurus and color in the QTextBrowser
References: <slrnbh60lj.3jm.sybrenUSE@sybren.thirdtower.com> <mailman.1058214925.28095.python-list@python.org> <3F132103.4D18759F@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <slrnbh6a2f.43e.sybrenUSE@sybren.thirdtower.com>

Peter Hansen enlightened us with:
> Are you certain about that?  It seems very unlikely that it would
> outlaw use of single quotes when it is supposed to be XML-compatible,
> and XML explicitly allows either single or double quotes around
> attributes.

I can't find it right now, but I've had the same discussion with a few
collegues of mine, and according to W3C, both single and double quotes
are accepted for both HTML and XML, and thus XHTML too.

Sybren
-- 
The problem with the world is stupidity. Not saying there should be a
capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the
safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself? 



From danbmil99 at yahoo.com  Sun Jul 20 10:26:53 2003
From: danbmil99 at yahoo.com (dan)
Date: 20 Jul 2003 07:26:53 -0700
Subject: Tk mainloop()
References: <mailman.1058675670.11192.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <fbf8d8f2.0307200626.56083c36@posting.google.com>

I asked this question yesterday (see prev. thread about calling TCL
from Py & V.V) -- the solution I came up with from responses & looking
at some old posts:

instead of foobar.mainloop(), do this:
 
while quitflag==0    #set this to 1 somewhere to quit
  yourcodehere()     #whatever needs to be done
  foobar.update()    #equivalent to TCL_DoOneCall()?or try
_Tkinter.doonecall()
  time.sleep(0.01)   #allow the Tkinter thread to run

Only problem I'm having right now is occasional crash on breakdown but
I think I just have to give Tk more time to close up shop.

-dbm

"Petr Evstratov" <tetra701 at mail.ru> wrote in message news:<mailman.1058675670.11192.python-list at python.org>...
> Hi, I have a question: how do you execute an arbitrary function in Tk fooBar.mainloop()?
> 
> I need to change the contents of a label every second, but I think I will also use some other functions as well...
> 
> I hope that someone will answer my question, because I have been looking for an answer for 3 days, asking people, searching Google... and still have not found anything useful...
>       
>                                    Thanks, Pete



From bokr at oz.net  Fri Jul 18 16:15:05 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 18 Jul 2003 20:15:05 GMT
Subject: scanf string in python
References: <bf7ut5$vf8$03$1@news.t-online.com> <3F178783.41DCA40F@alcyone.com>
Message-ID: <bf9kg9$3cm$1@216.39.172.122>

On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 22:37:07 -0700, Erik Max Francis <max at alcyone.com> wrote:

>lehrig wrote:
>
>> I have a string which is returned by a C extension.
>> 
>> mystring = '(1,2,3)'
>> 
>> HOW can I read the numbers in python ?
>
>re.findall seems the safest and easiest solution:
>
>>>> re.findall(r'(\d+)', '(1, 2, 3)')
>['1', '2', '3']
>>>> map(int, re.findall(r'(\d+)', '(1, 2, 3)'))
>[1, 2, 3]
>
Did you use the regex parens for a reason I am unaware of?

 >>> import re
 >>> re.findall(r'(\d+)', '(1, 2, 3)')
 ['1', '2', '3']
 >>> re.findall(r'\d+', '(1, 2, 3)')
 ['1', '2', '3']

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From zuckuss at apexmail.com  Wed Jul 30 12:30:45 2003
From: zuckuss at apexmail.com (Andrew)
Date: 30 Jul 2003 09:30:45 -0700
Subject: Exceptions as New Style Classes
Message-ID: <98c4ab9a.0307300830.72dcdc74@posting.google.com>

Hi,
To satisfy my curiosity I was wondering if anyone knew if this
behaviour was intentional?
Is there a specific reason why exceptions are not allowed to be new
style classes?

Python 2.3 (#46, Jul 29 2003, 18:54:32) [MSC v.1200 32 bit (Intel)] on
win32
>>> class OldException: pass
>>> raise OldException()
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
__main__.OldException: <__main__.OldException instance at 0x006AC490>

>>> class NewException(object): pass
>>> raise NewException()
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
TypeError: exceptions must be classes, instances, or strings
(deprecated), not NewException



From guettler at thomas-guettler.de  Fri Jul  4 06:53:43 2003
From: guettler at thomas-guettler.de (Thomas =?ISO-8859-15?Q?G=FCttler?=)
Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 12:53:43 +0200
Subject: Emacs + py-mode + tkinter problem
References: <WCWMa.18$Ha.16@nwrdny02.gnilink.net> <be1ejn$5qov$1@ID-63505.news.dfncis.de> <yfs8yrfiat2.fsf@black132.ex.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <be3mbo$uab6$1@ID-63505.news.dfncis.de>

Alexander Schmolck wrote:

> Thomas G?ttler <guettler at thomas-guettler.de> writes:
> 
>> Tom Locke wrote:
>> 
>> > Hi All,
>> > 
>> > I'm having trouble with the python shell within emacs. It's hanging
>> > when I use tkinter. Setup is:
>> > 
>> > Windows XP
>> > emacs 21.3
>> > py-mode 4.6
>> > 
>> > Recipe:
>> > From a python-mode buffer, launch the python shell (C-c !), then in the
>> > shell
>> 
>> Sorry, I don't know an answer since I only start
>> the interactive prompt from a terminal. Since I am quite happy
>> I would like to konw why you want the python interpreter in emacs?

> Maybe too many people are happy with too little (essentially
> edit/run-whole-program/debug cycles a la C, plus maybe using python
> interactively as a calculator or to look up documenation).

Yes, maybe. I am used to 
 1. edit with emacs
 2. press Alt-TAB
 3. in xterm arrowUp return
 4. maybe stacktrace --> emacs: goto-line (c-g) goto [1]


> If I had time
> I'd write a tutorial on using ipython from within emacs for (I think) much
> more effective interactive development. As it is I still haven't found the
> time for a reply to a post by David Abrahams on the topic.

Please announce it on python.announce
 
 thomas




From usenet_spam at janc.invalid  Wed Jul 16 21:35:02 2003
From: usenet_spam at janc.invalid (JanC)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 01:35:02 GMT
Subject: [OT] sentances with two meanings
References: <mailman.1058278343.23104.python-list@python.org> <bf167a$pvt$1@panix2.panix.com> <ufzl7rdno.fsf@online.no> <3F142A58.80426AA4@hotmail.com> <2259b0e2.0307161620.4a9353f1@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <Xns93BB246FDDBCFJanC@213.118.75.80>

mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato) schreef:

> It comes at least from the Latin version and I would not be surprised
> if the double sense of "known" was in the Greek version too (any Greek
> here?).

I'm not Greek, but I still have a ancient Greek dictionary from school. :-)

The verb "gignooskoo" (trying to write it with Latin letters ;) does indeed 
have the same "double" meaning in ancient Greek.  (Of course this is not 
really a "double" meaning, if you think about it.)

In Dutch the normal translation of "to know" is "kennen" or "weten", the 
sexual meaning is translated as "bekennen" (but, just like in English, it 
is not really common in contemporary Dutch).  Interesting is that 
"bekennen" also has another meaning in Dutch: "to profess", "to confess"...

> Now, Latin had to verbs for "to know": "scire" and "cognoscere". 

And "cognovisse".  (I still have a latin dictionary too... :)

-- 
JanC

"Be strict when sending and tolerant when receiving."
RFC 1958 - Architectural Principles of the Internet - section 3.9



From nav at adams.patriot.net  Tue Jul  8 09:57:27 2003
From: nav at adams.patriot.net (Nick Vargish)
Date: 08 Jul 2003 09:57:27 -0400
Subject: Python is a gem ,another successful day ....
References: <ECUNa.628$kY2.37591@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au> <am0Oa.461715$3n5.245818@news2.central.cox.net> <b16e4ef7.0307071024.179875e8@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <yyyof056rzs.fsf@adams.patriot.net>

steve at ferg.org (Stephen Ferg) writes:

> I'm trying to promote Python within the Federal government, and my own
> agency, the Bureau of Labor Statistics.  Right now, the chief
> alternative at BLS to Python is Java, but not too long ago it would
> have been VB and PowerBuilder.

Sounds like the situation here at the <Federal Agency Where I Work>
where I'm trying to promote Python as a viable alternative to Java or
Visual Basic.

I'm currently seeing the most resistance in these areas:

  * Who makes Python?  A lot of the culture is still mired in the idea
    that a corporate entity is required for a product to be fully
    supported, or viable in the long term.  I like to remind them how
    well Sun's stewardship has "served" the Java community, but I need
    more than negative counterexamples.

  * Who provides training?  I mean no disrespect to my coworkers, and
    present company is of course excluded, but a lot of the federal
    workforce has no incentive to learn on their own. Unless a
    training course is provided, with certifications and free tote
    bags, there is very little motivation for people to learn new
    technology.

  * How do we deploy Python?  Until we upgrade all the systems here to
    recent versions of Redhat Linux (joke!), installing a Python
    environment is an extra step.  I can point out that finding an
    appropriate JRE is a worse nightmare, but as above, I need more
    than negative counterexamples.

We're currently in something of a holding pattern while a bit of
reorganization takes place in the IT departments, but things will
probably be changing rapidly (as rapidly as any change occurs in a
government institution) once the organizational situation is
stabilized.

There was some talk of forming a SIG for Python in the US Government,
did that ever go anywhere?

Nick

-- 
# sigmask.py  ||  version 0.2  ||  2003-01-07  ||  Feed this to your Python.
print reduce(lambda x,y:x+chr(ord(y)-1),'Ojdl!Wbshjti!=obwAqbusjpu/ofu?','')




From shane at zope.com  Fri Jul 25 18:19:48 2003
From: shane at zope.com (Shane Hathaway)
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 18:19:48 -0400
Subject: How safe is modifying locals()?
In-Reply-To: <BDcUa.100193$XV.6037947@twister.austin.rr.com>
References: <BDcUa.100193$XV.6037947@twister.austin.rr.com>
Message-ID: <3F21AD04.5060706@zope.com>

Paul Paterson wrote:
> I am trying to find a way to mimic by-reference argument passing for 
> immutables in Python. I need to do this because I am writing an 
> automated VB to Python converter.
> 
> Here's an example of the VB code:
> 
> Sub Change(ByVal x, ByRef y)
> x = x+1
> y = y+1
> End Sub
> 
> x = 0: y = 0
> Change x, y
> ' Now x should be 0 and y should be 1

I might put all of the "ByRef" variables in a dictionary that gets 
passed back to the caller through a hidden argument.

def change(x, y, _byref):
   x = x + 1
   y = _byref['y'] = y + 1

x = 0; y = 0
__byref = {'y': y}; change(x, y, __byref); y = __byref['y']

At least this relies on nothing magical.  One thing that's still wrong, 
though, is that you can't embed the change() call in an expression. 
AFAIK, in Python, assignment to a local variable absolutely requires a 
statement.  You can get around this by splitting apart the expression 
and storing the result of the call in another hidden temporary variable.

Even if you do that, though, exceptions will behave differently in 
Python than they do in VB.  If an exception occurs in change() after a 
value has been assigned to 'y', the outer code won't get the value, and 
it just might affect the behavior of the outer code.  You could fix that 
with a try: / finally:

__byref = {'y': y}
try:
   change(x, y, __byref)
finally:
   y = __byref['y']

Suddenly it's awfully verbose and ugly, but if variables by reference 
are rare (as they should be), maybe it's not so bad. :-)

You could go the extreme route and store all variables in dictionaries 
rather than use local variables, which would allow "true" references, 
but then you'd kill speed and readability.  Better not do that.

Shane





From mis6 at pitt.edu  Tue Jul 29 10:41:59 2003
From: mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato)
Date: 29 Jul 2003 07:41:59 -0700
Subject: mixin class
References: <3F24F8D2.E1ADFB08@web.de> <2259b0e2.0307281355.34725f83@posting.google.com> <3F262A67.57E4762C@web.de>
Message-ID: <2259b0e2.0307290641.46d8e82c@posting.google.com>

Udo Gleich <udo.gleich at web.de> wrote in message news:<3F262A67.57E4762C at web.de>...
> What I want to do is take *two objects*, derive from both
> their classes, make a new object and combine the state of
> the old objects.
> 
> I dont know if that is a good idea. I would appreciate comments
> on the following solution. Especially the use of the dummy_init
> function as an empty constructor looks not quite right to me.

You may avoid dummy_init and have the default object.__init__ but
this is not the point. The whole construction seems ugly to me.
Do you have the option of using only class variables ? I mean, no 
explicit instance dictionary? Then you could simply create the
mixin from the original classes and not merge by hand the
instance dictionaries. Do you have the option of modifying the
original classes to make the all structure more multiple inheritance
friendly? The idea is that one should derive objects from classes,
not classes from objects. What you are doing will probably work,
but It is quite ugly to me.I cannot say more if I have no idea of what 
are your constraints. If you cannot touch the original classes, 
remember that you can create modifications of them, as mixin-frendly 
as you wish. I also have a question: why don't you override the 
__init__ method in M in such a way that it calls K1.__init__ and 
K2.__init__ according to the number of arguments? That would be
the first thing would come to my mind, but maybe you have reasons
why you don't want that.
HTH,


                 Michele



From kyle at lakeofburningfire.org  Fri Jul  4 22:52:28 2003
From: kyle at lakeofburningfire.org (Kyle Yancey)
Date: Sat, 05 Jul 2003 02:52:28 GMT
Subject: FYI:  pyBoards.com
References: <191e20c8.0307031711.42d4e46b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1dfcgv841tebnr3dg568kg5o7gleugrkjj@4ax.com>

You beat me. I've always wanted to create something similar to
perlmonks for python programmers.  Of course, I don't think that
monkishness would be a good description of python programmers.
Hmmm...perhaps pythonstuds.com :)

On 3 Jul 2003 18:11:09 -0700, usenet at kyle.sent.com (Kyle Babich)
wrote:

>I have just opened pyBoards.com, a community for Python programmers. 
>Please stop by and check it out.
>
>http://www.pyBoards.com
>
>Tell me what you think,
>Kyle




From hokiegal99 at hotmail.com  Wed Jul 16 11:57:05 2003
From: hokiegal99 at hotmail.com (hokiegal99)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 11:57:05 -0400
Subject: <> and !=
References: <mailman.1058367270.2625.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3F1575D1.3030806@hotmail.com>

Tim Peters wrote:
>  "<>" was deprecated instead.
> That's a computer science term usually meaning it's like a mentally
> disturbed uncle:  we won't kill it, but we won't talk about it either
> <wink>.  

That's very good... very good indeed. I know exactly what you mean. I'll 
have to use your explanation to explain 'deprecated' to my users!

Thank you.




From ianb at colorstudy.com  Tue Jul  8 03:05:20 2003
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: 08 Jul 2003 02:05:20 -0500
Subject: Accessing Web site contents from a Python script (with use of
	Cookie)
In-Reply-To: <b714b8de.0307072050.417d5321@posting.google.com>
References: <b714b8de.0307072050.417d5321@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1057647920.514.363.camel@lothlorien>

On Mon, 2003-07-07 at 23:50, Aki Niimura wrote:
> I'm currently having a problem completing my script because the contents 
> I would like to access in the Web site is a dynamic content and it is 
> generated based on the Cookie contents which are set in another page.

You should use ClientCookie:
  http://wwwsearch.sourceforge.net/ClientCookie/

  Ian






From ebolonev at rol.ru  Fri Jul  4 03:53:25 2003
From: ebolonev at rol.ru (Egor Bolonev)
Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 18:53:25 +1100
Subject: Some guidance please: A Python multitrack recorder?
References: <pan.2003.07.04.07.15.09.303@home.org>
Message-ID: <be3c1e$l3m$1@news.rol.ru>

Hello, Dfenestr8!
You wrote  on Fri, 04 Jul 2003 16:15:11 +0900:

 D> I'm no coder. I'm just a working guy who likes to tinker with computers
 D> in my spare time.

[Snipped]

 D> Also, is the Python interpreter fast enough for this sort of work?
 D> Especially on a pII 450Mhz with only 256 meg?

The developers build such modules as tkSnack with C/C++, so they work fast.

 D> Would I be better off just sticking with a single track recorder, until
 D> the day I get around to seriously studying a compiler language like C++?

Python is a kind of serious language. If you can find all low-level  modules
your programm need, then you have not to use C++.

[Snipped]


With best regards, Egor Bolonev.  E-mail: ebolonev at rol.ru [ru eo en]




From brian0891 at yahoo.com  Thu Jul 17 00:02:10 2003
From: brian0891 at yahoo.com (Brian Olsen)
Date: 16 Jul 2003 21:02:10 -0700
Subject: Choosing the right framework
References: <mailman.1058360129.5550.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <ef278339.0307162002.323a3dfc@posting.google.com>

> I am to start on a new web project in the beginning of next week, and I
> would like to use this opportunity to make the switch from PHP to Python.
> Which is why I ask and don't just spend 2+ more weeks to dig further into
> the above mentioned frameworks before making the decision.
> 
> - Carsten

I think the best suggestion is to understand your needs and
requirements and balance them with your style of development. Then
pick a few frameworks that represent that choice and try try try. You
shouldn't expect yourself themselves to try them all, though. I just
say to go to the tools that best interest you.

Each solution offers a different way of doing web development. One
might not suit your style and needs as well as the other; when you
find the right one, I am sure that you will find the tool robust
enough to handle the tasks you need to accomplish.

Many tools are production-quality. The few that I think of that are,
are:

* Webware (based on a servlet model)
* Quixote (a more programmer's based framework)
* Albatross (module based ... I'm not sure quite.)
* SkunkWeb (based on a page-model, sort of like PHP)

I probably left out some, so this is in no ways exhaustive. But the
choice in tool in terms of quality and the like should not bother you,
because many of the m are of high-quality.

I am not going to suggest what I personally like because I do not want
to influence your opinion. But if you do have any questions, ask away
on the mailing lists of the respective frameworks - I expect everyone
on these lists to be generally friendly and knowledgeable.

Brian



From heikowu at ceosg.de  Sat Jul 26 16:38:42 2003
From: heikowu at ceosg.de (Heiko Wundram)
Date: 26 Jul 2003 22:38:42 +0200
Subject: looping through a file
In-Reply-To: <3f21903c$0$27898$626a54ce@news.free.fr>
References: <3eaf6668$0$1030$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au>
	 <bfs0ec$eq9$1@news.iucc.ac.il>  <3f21903c$0$27898$626a54ce@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <1059251922.618.0.camel@d168.stw.stud.uni-saarland.de>

On Fri, 2003-07-25 at 22:24, Bruno Desthuilliers wrote:
> for line in thefile.readlines():
>      doWhatEverWithTheLine()

Or, if you're on a sufficiently new Python:

for line in thefile:
	doWhateverWithTheLine()






From shagshag13 at yahooPLUSDESPAM.fr  Tue Jul  1 04:28:55 2003
From: shagshag13 at yahooPLUSDESPAM.fr (shagshag13)
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 10:28:55 +0200
Subject: automatically dl pages which needs cookie
Message-ID: <3f01453a$0$13216$626a54ce@news.free.fr>

hello,

i would like to automatically download html pages that need a cookie to be
set (in response of a form login) to be available. But i can't manage to do
it. Does anyone has a cut and paste example somewhere ? thanks for your
help.

i've tried ClientCookie but didn't manage to undestand how it work.
Also tried PyCurl and following code :

>>> import pycurl
>>> import urllib
>>> curl=pycurl.init()
>>> curl.setopt(pycurl.URL,mywebsite)
>>> dataread="login=aaa&password=bbb"
>>> curl.setopt(pycurl.POST,1)
>>> curl.setopt(pycurl.POSTFIELDS,dataread)
>>> curl.setopt(pycurl.COOKIEJAR,'my.txt')
>>> curl.perform()

but get an error that i don't undestand :

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<pyshell#21>", line 1, in ?
    curl.perform()
error: (23, 'Failed writing body')





From guettler at thomas-guettler.de  Wed Jul 16 07:55:59 2003
From: guettler at thomas-guettler.de (Thomas =?ISO-8859-15?Q?G=FCttler?=)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 13:55:59 +0200
Subject: tkinter: Better Traceback
Message-ID: <bf3egf$agtqo$1@ID-63505.news.uni-berlin.de>

Hi!

Is there a way to get a better traceback in tkinter?
It would be nice to see the line number of the last line
of "my" code. 

Exception in Tkinter callback
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/var/tmp/python-2.2.2-build//usr/lib/python2.2/lib-tk/Tkinter.py",
line 1299, in __call__
    args = apply(self.subst, args)
  File "/var/tmp/python-2.2.2-build//usr/lib/python2.2/lib-tk/Tkinter.py",
line 1035, in _substitute
    e.height = getint(h)
ValueError: invalid literal for int(): ??

 thomas




From Kepes.Krisztian at peto.hu  Thu Jul  3 03:36:56 2003
From: Kepes.Krisztian at peto.hu (Krisztian Kepes)
Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 09:36:56 +0200
Subject: Python - get key pressing ?
Message-ID: <sf03fc84.011@testmail.peto.hu>

Hi !

I want to create an py program what process datas for long time.
But: I want to abort it if I need.
Not with Ctrl+Break !

If I push a key (B, or other), the script must stop his work, and save the result created before.

What I need to catch the keyboard events - without stopping a script ?

Example:

while False:
 DoWorkPeriodic()
 if KeyEvent=='B':
   SaveWork
   Stopit

KK








From bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au  Sat Jul 12 02:09:16 2003
From: bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au (Ben Finney)
Date: 12 Jul 2003 15:59:16 +0950
Subject: The "intellectual property" misnomer
References: <mailman.1057978117.8939.python-list@python.org> <slrnbgv1c7.q1.bignose-hates-spam@rose.localdomain.fake> <mailman.1057987701.7845.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <slrnbgvals.q1.bignose-hates-spam@rose.localdomain.fake>

On 12 Jul 2003 00:27:49 -0500, Ian Bicking wrote:
> Functionally, though, I think the term intellectual property here
> works.

Only by accepting the fallacy that there is a meaning to the term
"intellectual property".  There is no such thing -- not in law, not in
reality.

"Intellectual property law" has some meaning, to lawyers.  But it is a
grave mistake to conclude from that there is such a concept as
"intellectual property" -- when no law recognises such a thing.

Copyright law recognises some legal privileges for copyright holders.
Patent law recognises some totally different legal privileges for patent
holders.  Trademark law recognises still more different legal privileges
to trademark holders.  And so on.

These are all separate, and the privileges granted by one are almost
completely unrelated to the privileges granted by the others.  To bundle
them together as "intellectual property rights" implies that they are
much the same, only different in application.  *That* is the "layman's
understanding", and it is *wrong*.

To imply that they all derive from some undefined "intellectual
property" is false, confusing, and harmful in that it encourages a
notion that intellectual objects are thought of as "property" when they
are not -- not in law, and not in the way we use them.

What the term *does* do is justify the actions of those who would
restrict what we can do with intellectual works, by analogy with
physical property rights.  This is a direct harm, very difficult to
undo -- and made much more difficult if we propagate the notion of
"intellectual property".

Please avoid the use of the term "intellectual property".

-- 
 \     "If you ever teach a yodeling class, probably the hardest thing |
  `\      is to keep the students from just trying to yodel right off. |
_o__)                      You see, we build to that."  -- Jack Handey |
http://bignose.squidly.org/ 9CFE12B0 791A4267 887F520C B7AC2E51 BD41714B



From jordil2 at hotmail.com  Wed Jul 16 10:31:19 2003
From: jordil2 at hotmail.com (jordi)
Date: 16 Jul 2003 07:31:19 -0700
Subject: Some questions embedding Pythong in C (callback for variable assignment in the dictionary?)
Message-ID: <aa1201af.0307160631.6c331cb2@posting.google.com>

Hi,

I'm starting to use Python embedded in a C program.  I'm using Python
to execute several scripts using as a variables information retrieved
for several multithread "agents" written in C.  The method is:

 1- Create a thread for each agent (I use a pool thread, every agent
run in a different thread)
 2- Precompile a different script for each agent. 
 3- Make the agent retrieve its data
 4- Convert this data to Python variables
 5- Execute a Python script.

The steps 3 to 5 are executed again and again (there is a timer that
launch the execution). As it's a multithreaded program my code is
something like this:

- In each thread initialization:

  PyEval_AcquireLock();
  interp = Py_NewInterpreter();  
  PyThreadState_Swap(interp);

  globals = PyDict_New();
  PyDict_SetItemString(globals, "__builtins__", PyEval_GetBuiltins());
  pCode = Py_CompileString(ScriptPython, "testPython", Py_file_input
);

  (This "ScriptPython" is different depending on the type of agent)

- Then, every time the C "agent" retrieves its data:

     PyEval_AcquireThread(interp);
     /* Here I have to modify the PyDictionary, globals or locals */
     result = PyEval_EvalCode((PyCodeObject *)pCode, globals,
0/*locals*/);
     PyEval_ReleaseThread(interp);

I have some questions:

1.- Is there any way to make the embedded Python interpret make a
callback to the C program asking for variables when they are not
defined in the Dictionary ? That is, implementing an "variable
on-demand" method. I have a problem because an "agent" can have
hundreds or thousands variables and maybe a script only uses a small
number of them. Inserting all the variables every time can be very
time consuming.   I think Lua language can do that using "fallbacks"
or "tag methods" but I don't know if Python has something like that.

2.- What is the best way to use Python embedded in a C program?.
Instead of creating a new interpreter (Py_NewInterpreter();) I tried
using only a Python interpreter and creating a different state for
each thread:

   interp = PyThreadState_New(PyMainThreadState->interp);

This solution was much worse than creating different Interpreters.  Is
it normal?
 
3.- Are there any optimization tricks to use in embedded Python to
improve performance?

4.- Have you used any other script language for embedding in a
multithreaded program? I'm looking for something portable, fast and
free for commercial use.  I have tested Python and Lua and Lua seems
more suitable (and much faster) for simple embedding in a
multithreaded program.

Best regards,

Jordi



From hst at empolis.co.uk  Tue Jul 15 10:07:34 2003
From: hst at empolis.co.uk (Harvey Thomas)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 15:07:34 +0100
Subject: [OT] sentances with two meanings
Message-ID: <8FC4E7C302A6A64AAD5DB1FA0E825DEB53BDF5@hendrix.empolisuk.com>

Colin S. Miller wrote
> > 
> > Matthew 25:35  I was a stranger, and you took me in.
> Care to enlighten us with the second meaning?
> I'm a native English speaker, but can only see one meaning
> 'I was unknown to you, yet you let me stay in your house'
> Although 'took me in' could also mean 'accept as a friend'
> 
> 
> Colin S. Miller
> 
Also 'I was unknown to you and you deceived me'. Slightly colloquial


_____________________________________________________________________
This message has been checked for all known viruses by the MessageLabs Virus Scanning Service.




From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Wed Jul  2 11:03:48 2003
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 2 Jul 2003 11:03:48 -0400
Subject: What's the use of module spaces? (was Re: Circular Inheritance)
References: <mailman.1057099023.14043.python-list@python.org> <slrnbg4850.st5.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local> <mailman.1057124943.21695.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bdus8k$qsq$1@panix1.panix.com>

In article <mailman.1057124943.21695.python-list at python.org>,
Ian Bicking  <ianb at colorstudy.com> wrote:
>
>You might encounter less problems if those classes go together in a
>single module, but module boundaries are just there to help the
>programmer organize code, they have little formal meaning.

That's not true.  Modules define a namespace, and Python's execution
model makes heavy use of the "global" (read, current module's) namespace
for name resolution.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

If you're familiar with the song "Woad", try reading the Subject: line
again.  ;-)



From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Jul 10 15:36:04 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 15:36:04 -0400
Subject: Embedding Python, threading and scalability
References: <20E0F651F8B82F45ABCBACC58A2D995B0518AD@mexper1> <mailman.1057809015.26295.python-list@python.org> <1057814773.188737@yasure> <7kergv8u1q5oib600e4ino24tf9fioo2gc@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3F0DC024.5A73B11B@engcorp.com>

Afanasiy wrote:
> 
> On Thu, 10 Jul 2003 05:26:14 -0000, "Donn Cave" <donn at drizzle.com> wrote:
> 
> >Quoth Jeff Epler <jepler at unpythonic.net>:
> 
> >At any rate, it sure isn't because Guido can't scare up an SMP machine.
> 
> Is this the absolute truth or just something people like to say?
> 
> If it is true I am very surprised... I think getting Guido an SMP
> machine will not be very difficult, and could well be very cheap.

Note the double negative in the phrase "isn't because Guido can't".

That means in effect "Guido can".  Nobody's disagreeing with that.

-Peter



From jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu  Fri Jul 25 08:37:19 2003
From: jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu (John Hunter)
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 07:37:19 -0500
Subject: decimal to binary
In-Reply-To: <Dh9Ua.13488$Df5.327750@news1.tin.it> ("manuel"'s message of
 "Fri, 25 Jul 2003 12:21:55 GMT")
References: <Dh9Ua.13488$Df5.327750@news1.tin.it>
Message-ID: <m2brvikcjk.fsf@mother.paradise.lost>

>>>>> "manuel" == manuel  <manuelbastioniNOSPAM at tin.it> writes:

    manuel> How to convert a decimal to binary ?  thx,

    1.  Divide the "desired" base (in this case base 2) INTO the
        number you are trying to convert.

    2.  Write the quotient (the answer) with a remainder like you did
        in elementary school.

    3.  Repeat this division process using the whole number from the
        previous quotient (the number in front of the remainder).

    4.  Continue repeating this division until the number in front of
        the remainder is only zero.

    5.  The answer is the remainders read from the bottom up.

Is this what you meant :-)?  Or do you want to convert an integer to a
binary string in python?  If the latter, see the struct module


  http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/module-struct.html

John Hunter




From irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl  Wed Jul  2 17:15:35 2003
From: irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl (Irmen de Jong)
Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 23:15:35 +0200
Subject: ANN: Pyro 3.3 beta
Message-ID: <3f034b75$0$49099$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>

I'm glad to announce the latest version of Python's own powerful
remote method invocation technology -- Pyro 3.3 beta!

You can get it via http://pyro.sourceforge.net, then go
to the SF project homepage download area.

It is a beta version of the next Pyro release (3.3) and contains
lots of interesting new features and improvements.
See the change log at:
   http://pyro.sourceforge.net/pyro-manual/12-changes.html#latest

Most important new features:
- paired (fail-over) name server, fully automatic resyncing
- better remote tracebacks
- new style (PEP/python 2.3) logging
- meta info for Name server objects

Please test it as you wish, and tell me what you think of it!

As always, thanks for your support and interest in Pyro.


---> What is Pyro?
Pyro is an acronym for PYthon Remote Objects. Pyro is an advanced and
powerful Distributed Object Technology system written entirely in Python,
that is designed to be very easy to use.

It is extremely easy to implement a distributed system with Pyro, because all
network communication code is abstracted and hidden from your application.
You just get a remote Python object and invoke methods on the object on
the other machine.

Pyro offers you a Name Server, an Event Service, mobile objects, remote
exceptions, dynamic proxies, remote attribute access, automatic
reconnection, a very good and detailed manual, and many examples to get
you started right away.

Have fun!
--Irmen de Jong.





From erhan at uzem.itu.edu.tr  Wed Jul  2 10:24:55 2003
From: erhan at uzem.itu.edu.tr (Erhan Ekici)
Date: Wed,  2 Jul 2003 17:24:55 +0300
Subject: Tkinter Image Button Bug
Message-ID: <1057155895.3f02eb37e4d08@mail.uzem.itu.edu.tr>

Hi,

There is a problem in my code.I think it is Tkinter bug.
Because First Code works properly and display the image on screen.
In Second Code(with function), it works but doesn't display image.Instead of 
image, only a square with color=#dddddd comes on screen.
Also , Third Code works properly and display image on screen...

What is Problem..I will use this code in function..(Second Code) 
(My System: WinXP Pro, Python2.2 )

First Code:
*************************************************************
from Tkinter import *

master=Tk()
toolbar= Frame(master)
pfile ="C:\\Python22\\samples\\ftp\\images\\help.gif"
icon = PhotoImage(file=pfile)
b=Button(toolbar, image=icon, width=16,command=master.quit)
b.config(background="#dddddd", bd=1, relief=FLAT)
b.pack(side=LEFT, padx=2, pady=2)
toolbar.config(background="#ffffff", bd=2, relief=GROOVE)
toolbar.pack(side=TOP, expand=YES, fill=X)


master.mainloop()   

*************************************************************

SECOND CODE
*************************************************************
from Tkinter import *

main=Tk()

def toolbar(master):
    toolbar= Frame(master)
    pfile ="C:\\Python22\\samples\\ftp\\images\\help.gif"
    icon = PhotoImage(file=pfile)
    b=Label(toolbar, image=icon, width=10)
    b.config(background="#dddddd", bd=1, relief=FLAT)
    b.pack(side=LEFT, padx=2, pady=2)
    #toolbar.config(background="#ffffff", bd=2, relief=GROOVE)
    toolbar.pack(side=TOP, expand=YES, fill=X)
       

toolbar(main)
main.mainloop()
*************************************************************


THIRD CODE
**********************************************
from Tkinter import *

main=Tk()

def toolbar(master):
    toolbar= Frame(master)
    pfile ="C:\\Python22\\samples\\ftp\\images\\help.gif"
    icon = PhotoImage(file=pfile)
    b=Label(toolbar, image=icon, width=10)
    b.config(background="#dddddd", bd=1, relief=FLAT)
    b.pack(side=LEFT, padx=2, pady=2)
    #toolbar.config(background="#ffffff", bd=2, relief=GROOVE)
    toolbar.pack(side=TOP, expand=YES, fill=X)
    master.mainloop()   

toolbar(main)
***************************************************

Thanks for answers :)

Erhan Ekici
ITU Center for Distance Learning
E-mail : erhan at uzem.itu.edu.tr







From peter.barth at t-online.de  Tue Jul 15 03:02:32 2003
From: peter.barth at t-online.de (Peter Barth)
Date: 15 Jul 2003 00:02:32 -0700
Subject: Mix lambda and list comprehension?
Message-ID: <6f5b3f88.0307142302.1a1531f3@posting.google.com>

Hi,
trying to mix lambda expresions and list comprehension 
doesn't seem to work.
---
>>> [lambda x:x+y for y in range(10)][9](2)
11
>>> [lambda x:x+y for y in range(10)][4](2)
11
---
I expected the second expression to return 6.
What did I do wrong? Any hints?
Thanks
- Peter



From adalke at mindspring.com  Sun Jul 27 17:06:28 2003
From: adalke at mindspring.com (Andrew Dalke)
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 15:06:28 -0600
Subject: Voting Project Needs Python People
References: <LDVSa.14955$Mc.1126731@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <xqxwuebfyym.fsf@cola2.ca.boeing.com> <bfhhgq$5lu$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net> <xqx7k6b36r8.fsf@cola2.ca.boeing.com> <jk_Sa.113364$Io.9707082@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <7x65lv31hf.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <z8%Sa.113480$Io.9712518@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <xqxsmoyitto.fsf@cola2.ca.boeing.com> <3jhTa.115229$Io.9825106@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <bfkch9$is4$1@slb4.atl.mindspring.net> <w2BTa.116465$Io.9943199@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <bfo1k3$n2s$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net> <MzUUa.23923$Mc.1869123@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <bg1ekg$2b2$1@slb3.atl.mindspring.net>

Alan Dechert:
> Let me try to clarify what I'm after.  The paper record should always
match
> the electronic record.  So the allowable defects is zero.  If there is a
> mismatch found in the sample, we don't publish the electronic tally: we
take
> all the paper ballots and check them.

You cannot get zero allowable defects.  As best, you can get the likelihood
of allowable defects to be less than one.

For example, there will be hardware problems.  Parts break down,
the machines are exposed to large temperature swings, the scanners
might be confused by a swarm of bugs, pages can stick together because
of the humidity, ballots can be left in the trunk of a car 'by accident'
(happened here in NM for the 2000 election).

You can spend more money to reduce the likelihood of error.  You
can develop higher quality scanners and you can hire more people to
review the ballots.  But even if you scan the ballots twice by machine
(each with different mechanisms) and another time by human, with
descrepancies broken by another inspection, you still have the chance
that all of those steps fail.  A low chance, but still a chance.

Even in the method you propose (machine scanning with a human
double checking a sample), suppose the human doing the sampling
doesn't notice the machine's result is wrong?  (Boredom is insidious.)

> So, if by the preliminary electronic tally a candidate won a race by 1
> percent, I want to know how many ballots we have to check (random sample)
to
> be certain that the result predicted is true.

Right.  In this case you shouldn't mind errors - you just want to be 99.99%
sure that there's less than a, say, 0.05% error rate.

> When I put one million into this Confidence Level Calculator, and
Acceptable
> Quality Level of .01, a sample of 10,000 shows a confidence level of "1."
A
> sample of 2000 give C.L of 0.999999998  Presumably, "1" is really
> .9999999999+ more 9s.  Can we get more decimal places?

At most 17 9s and possibly less.  Python's 'str' rounds to 1 at 13 places,
while its 'repr' (which uses a more precise method) takes 17.

>>> 0.99999999999999
0.99999999999999001
>>> 0.999999999999999
0.999999999999999
>>> 0.9999999999999999
0.99999999999999989
>>> 0.99999999999999999
1.0
>>>
>>> str(0.999999999999)
'0.999999999999'
>>> str(0.9999999999999)
'1.0'
>>>

More likely it depends on whoever wrote the calculator you're using.

If you want 100% certainty (and not 99.9999+%) then you'll end up
having to verify everything, which means you are no longer sampling
the results.  But the reason to use sampling is because the verification
step is too expensive to apply it to everything, and because if you
*did* test everything then you'll still need a sample to verify your
verifiers.  (Whether they be human or machine.)

Do you have an estimate for the failure rate in the verifiers?

> So I guess the Lot Fraction Defective is analgous to the predicted victory
> margin.  Is that right?

I'm the wrong one for that - can you go over to the nearest statistics
department and ask for assistance?

                    Andrew
                    dalke at dalkescientific.com





From Olivier.POYEN at clf-dexia.com  Thu Jul  3 08:22:01 2003
From: Olivier.POYEN at clf-dexia.com (POYEN OP Olivier (DCL))
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 14:22:01 +0200
Subject: How to spawn a program with redirection as it parameter
Message-ID: <8963D6370B323E4AA3241200F0EAF7318C0F63@FCEXVEXM002.dcl.int.dexwired.net>

import os
os.system('your sh line of command')

python will be waiting.
It returns the command line return result.


HTH

--OPQ

> -----Message d'origine-----
> De : TH Lim [mailto:sshark97 at hotmail.com]
> Envoy? : jeudi 3 juillet 2003 12:19
> ? : python-list at python.org
> Objet : How to spawn a program with redirection as it parameter
> 
> 
> Hi,
> 
> How do I do a simple thing like  /bin/cat myfile.txt >> yourfile.txt
> in unix? I tried with the script shown below but not successful. Am
> doing it right? Pls. advise. thank you.
> 
> #!/usr/bin/python
> import os
> os.spawnl(os.P_WAIT, "/bin/cat" , "/bin/cat", "myfile.txt >>
> yourfile.txt")
> print "Done"
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 
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From eltronic at juno.com  Sat Jul 19 17:29:52 2003
From: eltronic at juno.com (eltronic at juno.com)
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 17:29:52 -0400
Subject: A challenge to the ASCII proponents.
Message-ID: <20030719.213504.-133121.0.eltronic@juno.com>


On Sat, 19 Jul 2003 15:59:16 +0100 Alan Kennedy <alanmk at hotmail.com>
writes maybe none of the below:
> Martin v. Loewis
> >> So what do you think about this message?:
> >>
> >> ????????????????
> >>
> >> Look Ma, no markup. And not every character uses two bytes, 
> either.
> >> And I can use Umlauts (??????) and Arabic (????????.????????????)
> >> if I want to.
> 
> 
> The final point I'd like to make [explicit] is: nobody had to ask me
> how or why my xml snippet worked: there were no tricks. Nobody asked
> for debugging information, or for reasons why they couldn't see it:

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
is how my email picked it up.
other messages and replys were inconsistently rendered.
isn't this the kind of thing the test groups were designed for?
IIR, 7 bits is the standard in email & usenet.
 no one should expect more than 7 
from any program or relay. the proper way
would seem to be html using char entity's
html appears to be no ones favorite format in email or usenet,
so let the flames begin.
I hope I haven't been hoodwinked into replying in 8bit as well.


e
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From marc.engel at recif.com  Thu Jul 31 05:49:03 2003
From: marc.engel at recif.com (Marc ENGEL)
Date: 31 Jul 2003 02:49:03 -0700
Subject: pythoncom: STA python COM server randomly does not receive event from other objects : deadlock
References: <6411841c.0307300119.46bc0159@posting.google.com> <6411841c.0307300559.74557d9a@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <6411841c.0307310149.495028ca@posting.google.com>

It's me again.

I found the reason and wanted to share it with you.

It is a Windows 2000 bug corrected with service pack 4.

http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;321788

Indeed, my python COM object and its python client redirect stdout to
my own Trace Manager.

Hope it may help someone else.

Marc

marc.engel at recif.com (Marc ENGEL) wrote in message news:<6411841c.0307300559.74557d9a at posting.google.com>...
> I'd like to add that just setting the Python COM object to Inproc
> instead of Local server makes the all thing work properly.
> But I need a Local server...
> 
> It works without modifying a line of code!
> 
> Marc
> 
> marc.engel at recif.com (Marc ENGEL) wrote in message news:<6411841c.0307300119.46bc0159 at posting.google.com>...
> > Hi all,
> > 
> > I coded a python COM object that runs in a pythonw local server as a
> > STA.
> > 
> > This object creates and advises a VC++ COM object to receive its
> > event. Those events are sent by worker threads.
> > 
> > The VC++ object is free threaded. As a consequence call between my STA
> > python object and apartment are marshalled through proxy.
> > 
> > The python COM object regularly calls a blocking method on the VC++
> > object to synchronize. But, as it is a cross apartment call, during
> > the call it can gets the event handler called thanks to the message
> > pump operated by COM.
> > 
> > But sometimes events are no received and it seems that I enter a
> > deadlock.
> > When I attach to the VC+ object, I can see that the thread that made
> > the Fire_XX is still waiting for the call to end.
> > 
> > Does somedy know the reason?
> > 
> > Does the COM message pump may be different from the pythoncom message
> > pump located in localserver.py : pythoncom.PumpMessages ?
> > 
> > Thanks in advance for any hint, because this is a very blocking issue
> > for my project.
> > 
> > Marc



From tim.harford at rogers.com  Sat Jul  5 13:44:38 2003
From: tim.harford at rogers.com (Tim)
Date: Sat, 05 Jul 2003 17:44:38 GMT
Subject: Unfortunately...fortunately
Message-ID: <a8ENa.61430$a51.40772@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>

Today's Note:

Unfortunately, I'm probably one of the world's laziest programmers.
Fortunately, there is Python.

:-)
Tim





From cartermark46 at ukmail.com  Thu Jul  3 14:41:42 2003
From: cartermark46 at ukmail.com (Mark Carter)
Date: 3 Jul 2003 11:41:42 -0700
Subject: Python is a gem, you need to keep pushing it ....
References: <0gVMa.126$a%1.9289@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au>
Message-ID: <d3c9c04.0307031041.20beae6b@posting.google.com>

> same frustration as myself where managers (and people who think Microsoft
> invented everything well except a watch you need to recharge every 2 days

"Me too". I am a programmer at a firm of engineers. They're fixated by
all things Microsoft. I try to explain to them that, perhaps, not
*everything* is best done on Excel using VBA. I happened to glance at
a proposal for a large job (for them) that they were bidding for; and
it stated that it was to be based on Microsoft Access. *Groan*. Honest
to God, if it doesn't have coloured cells all over the place, then
they kind of stare at you like rabbits caught in the headlights of an
oncoming car. Attempts to tell them that all this guff is difficult to
put under version control because it's a binary ... you should
separate code from data ... blah blah ... well, I might as well talk
to a brick wall.

Rant over. For now.



From sshark97 at hotmail.com  Thu Jul 10 12:48:45 2003
From: sshark97 at hotmail.com (TH Lim)
Date: 10 Jul 2003 09:48:45 -0700
Subject: How to spawn a program with redirection as it parameter
References: <ea8ebdc7.0307030218.75f3ebac@posting.google.com> <1057291400.926913@yasure>
Message-ID: <ea8ebdc7.0307100848.55d678d0@posting.google.com>

Thanks Donn, ur explaination sure put things into perspective. before
this, i was wandering why ">>" works in os.system() and not in
spawn().well, now i know why.

"Donn Cave" <donn at drizzle.com> wrote in message news:<1057291400.926913 at yasure>...
> Quoth sshark97 at hotmail.com (TH Lim):
> | How do I do a simple thing like  /bin/cat myfile.txt >> yourfile.txt
> | in unix? I tried with the script shown below but not successful. Am
> | doing it right? Pls. advise. thank you.
> |
> | #!/usr/bin/python
> | import os
> | os.spawnl(os.P_WAIT, "/bin/cat" , "/bin/cat", "myfile.txt >>
> | yourfile.txt")
> | print "Done"
> 
> No, the '>>' operator belongs to the shell, and in spawnl there
> is no shell.  As another followup observes, if you want a shell,
> you can use system() -
>   os.system('cat myfile.txt >> yourfile.txt')     is about the same as
>   os.spawnl(os.P_WAIT, '/bin/sh', 'sh', '-c', 'cat myfile.txt >> yourfile.txt')
> 
> Sometimes we would rather avoid the shell, because there's a risk
> that when it re-evaluates the command parameters they will come
> out different than we intend.  In that case, there isn't any standard
> function, you have to write your own.  Off the top of my head, maybe
> try something like
> 
>   def spawnvio(w, file, cmd, iodx):
>       pid = os.fork()
>       if pid:
>           if w == os.P_WAIT:
>               p, s = os.waitpid(pid, 0)
>               return s
>           else:
>               return pid
>       else:
>           try:
>               # Perform redirections
>               for n, u in iodx:
>                   if n != u:
>                       os.dup2(n, u)
>                       os.close(n)
>               os.execve(file, cmd, os.environ)
>           finally:
>               os._exit(113)
> 
>   yrf = os.open('yourfile.txt', os.O_APPEND|os.O_CREAT)
>   spawnvio(os.P_WAIT, '/bin/cat', ['cat', 'myfile.txt'], [(yrf, 1)])
>   os.close(yrf)
> 
> 	Donn Cave, donn at drizzle.com



From elainejackson7355 at home.com  Sat Jul 12 17:19:14 2003
From: elainejackson7355 at home.com (Elaine Jackson)
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 21:19:14 GMT
Subject: new in town
References: <AeVPa.445271$Vi5.11496890@news1.calgary.shaw.ca> <mailman.1058024839.27499.python-list@python.org> <xBYPa.418026$3C2.11372267@news3.calgary.shaw.ca> <jkZPa.75780$ZC.9188@news.easynews.com>
Message-ID: <mX_Pa.420985$ro6.10136219@news2.calgary.shaw.ca>

That's okay, because I don't want my hand held. What I'd like is a reasonable
assurance that, if I pick up this tool, I'll be able to accomplish what I have
in mind. If not then, no offence, but I intend picking up a different tool.

Joe Francia <usenet at soraia.com> wrote in message
news:jkZPa.75780$ZC.9188 at news.easynews.com...
| Elaine Jackson wrote:
| > As comforting as it is to know that there are "several ways of doing this",
I'd
| > be even happier if I knew the name of just one of those ways. The FAQ
searcher
| > doesn't seem to understand lengthy explanations and hand-waving.
| >
|
| Gerhard is undeserving of your flippancy.  He's very active in this
| forum and very knowledgeable, but doesn't tolerate ambiguity and
| laziness (read some of his postings).  You asked a vague question, and
| got a vague answer (you also used an ambiguous subject line, so be
| thankful someone answered you at all).  You asked "Can Python be
| compiled?".  Did you mean "Can the interpreter be compiled by me?" or
| "Can I compile my Python scripts into a stand-alone executable?" (this
| one is asked once a week) or "Can the Python interpreter be compiled
| into (embedded) an executable?"  The answer to all of these is yes (more
| or less - see the FAQ), but since you didn't even specify a platform,
| how can you expect a more detailed answer than the one you got?
|
| I entered "compile" into the FAQ search engine, and saw listed answers
| to all of the above questions.  You may want to revisit the FAQ, and you
| also may want to read this page:
| http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
|
| The Python community is a friendly one, but mostly, no one here will
| hold your hand.  If you show you've spent some time trying to solve the
| problem yourself and then ask specific questions about the thing that's
| stumping you, you'll get helpful responses.
|
| jf
|





From max at alcyone.com  Sun Jul  6 20:40:51 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Sun, 06 Jul 2003 17:40:51 -0700
Subject: Newbie Question: Abstract Class in Python
References: <5U2Oa.239646$jp.6482027@twister.southeast.rr.com>
Message-ID: <3F08C193.DA90F4C0@alcyone.com>

Kevin Bass wrote:

> I am new to Python and want to know how to implement an abstract
> class? I
> have read through different books and I have no found this
> information.
> Thanks!

There's no builtin way to do that in Python.  Typically if I'm doing
something where I want to make a class that yells at me if I 1.
accidentally instantiate it directly or 2. fail to override one of its
methods in a subclass, I do something like:

	class AbstractSomething:
	    def __init__(self):
	        if self.__class__ is AbstractSomething:
	            raise NotImplementedError

	    def aMethod(self, ...):
	        raise NotImplementedError

	    def anotherMethod(self, ...):
	        raise NotImplementedError

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ They love too much that die for love.
\__/  (an English proverb)



From danb_83 at yahoo.com  Sun Jul 13 21:18:53 2003
From: danb_83 at yahoo.com (Dan Bishop)
Date: 13 Jul 2003 18:18:53 -0700
Subject: ??????? ??? ??? ??????? ??????????) ))
References: <37d6f77c.0307130932.1e3adf0d@posting.google.com> <3f11ac74$0$49101$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <ad052e5c.0307131718.4903430d@posting.google.com>

Irmen de Jong <irmen at -NOSPAM-REMOVETHIS-xs4all.nl> wrote in message news:<3f11ac74$0$49101$e4fe514c at news.xs4all.nl>...
> Garber wrote:
> 
> > ?????, ?????????? ??? ??? ??????? ????? ??????(????????, ?????? ???? ?
> > exe-???? ?????????).
> 
> Yes!
> I think.
> 
> ;-)
> 
> On second thought, what's he saying?

The Babelfish translation is

"People, you polskazhite plz where to reach progu to
frizer(kazhet'sya, shorter must be into yekhe-shnik outdistanced)."



From jzgoda at gazeta.usun.pl  Mon Jul 14 06:04:55 2003
From: jzgoda at gazeta.usun.pl (Jarek Zgoda)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 10:04:55 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: training for newbies
References: <betqim$8re$1@atlantis.news.tpi.pl>
Message-ID: <betv87$4jq$1@atlantis.news.tpi.pl>

OM <omega at silvreus.eu.org> pisze:

> do you know any sites with free programs for newbies, which will help me in
> progress? i know that only way to develop is writing programs, but in my
> book i don't have programs to write, only questions..

Check out http://www.uselesspython.com and Python Cookbook at
http://aspn.activestate.com

-- 
Jarek Zgoda
Registered Linux User #-1
http://www.zgoda.biz/ JID:zgoda at chrome.pl http://zgoda.jogger.pl/



From heikowu at ceosg.de  Wed Jul 16 01:24:30 2003
From: heikowu at ceosg.de (Heiko Wundram)
Date: 16 Jul 2003 07:24:30 +0200
Subject: anything like C++ references?
In-Reply-To: <2a07hvo1ft7q7gedt4hq16g518iom905lu@4ax.com>
References: <mailman.1058225603.22981.python-list@python.org>
	 <2a07hvo1ft7q7gedt4hq16g518iom905lu@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <1058333069.619.103.camel@d168.stw.stud.uni-saarland.de>

On Tue, 2003-07-15 at 06:27, Stephen Horne wrote:
> Really. Is that what dictionaries are for? Or lists? Or other mutable
> classes?

I guess that's what classes are for... Just on a personal note, I've
never ever needed or wished for something similar to pointer syntax in
Python. Don't you tell that it's my background, I come from a C++
background, and have switched to Python only for the last two years or
so.

If you encapsulate your data correctly (have classes handle data that
belongs together, and not pass it round in parts), everything works out
great, at least for me. And I guess there's nothing more important than
thinking about proper data-encapsulation before starting a project.

All-beating-about-the-bush-for-nothing'ly,

Heiko Wundram.





From gh at ghaering.de  Tue Jul 29 18:43:59 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 00:43:59 +0200
Subject: Showing IP address of a user...
In-Reply-To: <7b454334.0307291005.53ee8c07@posting.google.com>
References: <7b454334.0307291005.53ee8c07@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3F26F8AF.2010103@ghaering.de>

Fazer wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> I was wondering how I can show an IP address of a person who visits a
> Python web-page?  Would I have to use Environment variables to access
> Apache's server variables which hold such values like in PHP or what?

Use this little CGI script to find the answer to your question:

#!/usr/bin/env python
import cgi
cgi.test()

-- Gerhard




From letezo at fw.hu  Sat Jul 12 10:29:44 2003
From: letezo at fw.hu (=?iso-8859-2?B?TOl0ZXr1?=)
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 16:29:44 +0200
Subject: HTML Help (CHM) file for Python 2.2.3
Message-ID: <001d01c34882$51b32870$8800a8c0@sirius>

Hi Python Fans!

Could you send me a download URL of a compiled
HTML Help (CHM) file for Python 2.2.3 ?

Thanks: Complex






From srijit at yahoo.com  Mon Jul 14 12:32:20 2003
From: srijit at yahoo.com (srijit at yahoo.com)
Date: 14 Jul 2003 09:32:20 -0700
Subject: (Suggestion) Download Options
Message-ID: <221d8dbe.0307140147.6417e501@posting.google.com>

Hello,
Can we have a download option for upcoming Python 2.3 without TCL/Tk?
Though I know the extremely popular Tkinter is the default GUI of
Python, I see one immediate advantage of a download option without
TCL/Tk
1) Download size is less and it is a boon for people like me with slow
modem connection.
2) Tkinter with TCL/TK can be a separate add-on

I look forward to opinions from members.

Regards,
Srijit



From AndreasStud at gmx.de  Sun Jul  6 04:45:14 2003
From: AndreasStud at gmx.de (Andreas Steffen)
Date: 6 Jul 2003 01:45:14 -0700
Subject: vim --> python
Message-ID: <e1ddcfb1.0307060045.4520ff29@posting.google.com>

Hi,
how can I adress the lines, which I send as input from vim to a python
script (in python):

for example - :1,10!python script.py

Probably the same problem:
how can I adress something which is piped into a python script?
cat text.txt | python script.py
Thanks in advance, Andreas.



From s_gherman at yahoo.com  Wed Jul  9 16:15:52 2003
From: s_gherman at yahoo.com (Sorin Gherman)
Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 15:15:52 -0500
Subject: LOADING DATA INTO ARRAYS
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1057772594.19921.python-list@python.org>
References: <mailman.1057772594.19921.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <beht5p$ajv$1@netsrv2.spss.com>

It's easy, split returns a 3-elements list in your case, while you try 
to read that with just 2 elements, xval, yval.
Will work like this:
xval,yval,zval = string.split(line)

/sorin

> Hi,
> 
>      I am trying to collect the following data in X,Y,Z arrays as following:
>     
>   1.00000000000000        0.00000000000000D+000   0.00000000000000D+000
>   0.932113519778473       0.362166241174114        0.00000000000000D+000
>   0.737671227507627       0.675160099611485        0.00000000000000D+000
>   0.443073128844408       0.896485472551578        0.00000000000000D+000
>    8.83176797852179D-002  0.996092358889152        0.00000000000000D+000
>  -0.145819420809848       0.989311223283493        0.00000000000000D+000
>  -0.391263558087552       0.920278668726310        0.00000000000000D+000
>  -0.625821331717327       0.779966448488364        0.00000000000000D+000
>  -0.822296905793933       0.569058695322129        0.00000000000000D+000
>  -0.953713306870443       0.300717356163965        0.00000000000000D+000
> 
> After loading them into X,Y,Z arrays, I should be in a position to access the 
> first line as X[0],Y[0], Z[0] and second line stuff as X[1],Y[1],Z[1].
> 
> I have written the following code which is not working for some reason.  Can 
> anyone suggest any changes:
> 
> ifile1 = open('fluidcylinder', 'r')  #fluidcylinder contains the above data
> for line in ifile1:
>      xval,yval=string.split(line)
>      x.append(xval)
>      y.append(yval)
> 
> The error I am getting after the compilation is as follows:
> 
>  xval,yval=string.split(line)
> ValueError: unpack list of wrong size
> 
> 
> I would really appreciate if someone can help me with this.
> 
> Thanks in advance,
> 
> SATISH
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 




From fredrik at pythonware.com  Wed Jul  2 13:09:33 2003
From: fredrik at pythonware.com (Fredrik Lundh)
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 19:09:33 +0200
Subject: Tkinter Image Button Bug
References: <1057155895.3f02eb37e4d08@mail.uzem.itu.edu.tr>
Message-ID: <bdv3jf$88b$1@main.gmane.org>

Erhan Ekici wrote:

> There is a problem in my code.I think it is Tkinter bug.
> Because First Code works properly and display the image on screen.
> In Second Code(with function), it works but doesn't display image.Instead of
> image, only a square with color=#dddddd comes on screen.
> Also, Third Code works properly and display image on screen...

http://www.python.org/doc/FAQ.html#4.69

also see the note on this page:
http://www.effbot.org/zone/tkinter-photoimage.htm

(bug or not, this belongs to the "you'll only do this mistake
once" category)

</F>







From bokr at oz.net  Sun Jul 27 14:29:41 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 27 Jul 2003 18:29:41 GMT
Subject: multiple file objects for some file?
References: <mailman.1059326380.30835.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bg15ml$cm9$0@216.39.172.122>

On Sun, 27 Jul 2003 13:17:50 -0400, "Tim Peters" <tim.one at comcast.net> wrote:

>[Gary Robinson]
>> For some code I'm writing, it's convenient for me to have multiple
>> file objects (say, 2 or 3) open on the same file in the same process
>> for reading different locations.
>>
>> As far as I can tell, there is no problem with that but I thought it
>> might be a good idea to ask here just in case I'm wrong.
>
>Provided they're "ordinary" on-disk files (not, e.g., sockets or pipes
>wrapped in a Python file object), that should be fine.  Each file object has
>its own idea of the current file position, and they'll all (of course) see
>the same data on disk.
>
>You can get in deep trouble if the file mutates, though.  Python's file
>objects are wrappers around C's streams, and each C stream has its own
>buffers.  So, for example, a mutation (a file write) made via one file
>object won't necessarily update the buffers held by the other file objects
>(it depends on how your platform C works, but I don't know of any that
>automagically try to update buffers across multiple streams open on the same
>file), and then reading via some other file object may continue to see stale
>data (left over in its buffer).
>
>For example, I bet this program will fail on your box before a minute
>passes:
<snip>
>
How about using mmap? Would that be a safe way to share (assuming you take care
of any logical ordering requirements for mutation/access)?

Do you have to flush every time you write (i.e., for sharing sync purposes,
not to guarantee persistence)?
Is there any difference re sharing issues between file vs slice spellings of updates?
Is anything guaranteed atomic?

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From martin_p at despammed.com  Fri Jul 18 06:46:15 2003
From: martin_p at despammed.com (Martin P)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 12:46:15 +0200
Subject: "\n" in ASCII-file
Message-ID: <bf8j40$bj4e4$1@ID-108519.news.uni-berlin.de>

Hello,

for a short exercise-program I have to read the lines in an ASCII-file.

But every line has a new-line-feed ("\n") at the end of the line. (The
ASCII-file was made with Windows Notepad).
Is this only because I used Windows (and Notepad)?

And... is there any special method to read lines from a file without "\n"?

Bye,
Martin





From zathras at thwackety.com  Sun Jul  6 13:50:57 2003
From: zathras at thwackety.com (Michael Sparks)
Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2003 18:50:57 +0100 (BST)
Subject: Collective memory (was: Good code patterns in Python)
In-Reply-To: <hff5eb.e9h.ln@escape.shannon.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0307061823380.18953-100000@pingu.thwackety.com>

On Fri, 4 Jul 2003, Charles Shannon Hendrix wrote:
>     if <something>
>         <work>
>         <more work>
>         <add numbers>

If this is solely tabs, this is unambiguous with no special rules needing
invocation. If this is spaces, again, this is unambiguous with no special
rules needing invocation.

If this is tabs and spaces mixed, then this looks ambiguous, and you need
to look at special rules. That said, if you have one user who uses // for
comments in C++ and another who exclusively uses /* */ what happens when
the first user attempts to comment out the block of code by the second
user?

Also C has more corner cases due to allowing its block structure
delimiters being slightly inconsistant than anything else.

After all without checking how many C programmers could say what this
means:

if (<test>)
if (<another test>)
<do something>
else
<do otherthing>

Is that:
   if <test>
      if <test>
         <do something>
      else
        <do something>

Or is it:
   if <test>
      if <test>
         <do something>
   else
      <do something>

The "problem" really boils down to choosing to use language features
inconsistantly. This applies to C, C++, Python, Perl (eg allowing
whitespace in regexes or not), and even functional languages. You might
choose to always use braces for blocks even where not necessary, always to
use tabs rather than spaces (or vice versa) and so on.

In python I personally tend to find that only having one major decision to
make - spaces vs tabs actually makes interaction with others code a lot
simpler.

> One really funny problem was when I guy reformatted his Python code,
> around 15K lines of it, and basically unindented *ALL* of the code to
> column 1.  It was the only recoverable copy of the code too.
>
> He had to read the entire program line by line to recreate the logic.

I changed all the permissions in /etc once by accident as well. (to 777
IIRC) This quite spectacularly busted my system, and that took a long
while to sort out. At the time that was probably a similar number of lines
affected by a pretty stupid simple action.

What's the moral? Backup regularly and often and especially before doing
something that touches a significant amount of stuff. (Where significant
means >2 hours to fix) It certainly isn't "permissions are bad", nor
"whitespace is bad".

Inconsistent functionality abuse combined with stupidity is pretty hard
for any system to cope with...

Regards,


Michael.





From lehrig at t-online.de  Fri Jul 18 01:00:28 2003
From: lehrig at t-online.de (lehrig)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 07:00:28 +0200
Subject: scanf string in python
Message-ID: <bf7ut5$vf8$03$1@news.t-online.com>

I have a string which is returned by a C extension.

mystring = '(1,2,3)'

HOW can I read the numbers in python ?



From bokr at oz.net  Fri Jul 18 22:08:48 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 19 Jul 2003 02:08:48 GMT
Subject: properties + types, implementing meta-class desciptors elegantly?
References: <mailman.1058532630.7342.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bfa97g$s5j$0@216.39.172.122>

On Fri, 18 Jul 2003 08:48:44 -0400, "Mike C. Fletcher" <mcfletch at rogers.com> wrote:

>Hi all,
>
>I'm working on a base meta-type for a plug-in system, and I'd really 
>like to use the same rich-descriptor objects as I've used everywhere 
>else in the system.  Basically these are descriptors that intercept 
>x.name, do various transformations, and then store the values in the 
>instance dictionary.
>
>Unfortunately:
>
> >>> type(t).pluginRole
>Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
>  File "p:\properties\basicproperty\basic.py", line 231, in __get__
>    return self.getDefault( client )
>  File "p:\properties\basicproperty\basic.py", line 256, in getDefault
>    setattr( client, self.name, value )
>  File "p:\properties\basicproperty\basic.py", line 283, in __set__
>    self._setValue( client, value )
>  File "p:\properties\basicproperty\basic.py", line 151, in _setValue
>    client.__dict__[ self.name ] = value
>TypeError: object does not support item assignment
>
Not sure exactly what you are doing, but what does

     object.__setattr__(client, self.name, value)

do in your context in place of

     client.__dict__[ self.name ] = value

?

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From bram at norealaddress.com  Thu Jul 31 11:37:37 2003
From: bram at norealaddress.com (Bram)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 17:37:37 +0200
Subject: Newbie: implementing lowlevel protocol over socket int32 data
 handling
In-Reply-To: <viicacikrp1vde@news.supernews.com>
References: <bgbaj5$kgv$2@news4.tilbu1.nb.home.nl> <viicacikrp1vde@news.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <bgbd4i$h6o$1@news4.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>

Thank you for replying so quickly.
You thought right, this resolves all my problems :-)
Bram

John Roth wrote:
> 
> I took a quick look at the Wiki describing the protocol. For
> something like this, I'd expect that interoperability would be
> an issue, so the actual data format in the packets would be
> part of the protocol specification.
> 
> That being the case, look at the struct module. I think it does
> exactly what you need.
> 
> John Roth




From ianb at colorstudy.com  Tue Jul  1 18:13:01 2003
From: ianb at colorstudy.com (Ian Bicking)
Date: 01 Jul 2003 17:13:01 -0500
Subject: Suggesting for overloading the assign operator
In-Reply-To: <3F01CC7B.F71C4C0B@hotmail.com>
References: <6f03c4a5.0306301931.3f15fbb7@posting.google.com>
	 <2259b0e2.0307010328.1e1b4a04@posting.google.com>
	 <6f03c4a5.0307010910.35ca3158@posting.google.com>
	 <3F01CC7B.F71C4C0B@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <1057097580.725.60.camel@lothlorien>

On Tue, 2003-07-01 at 13:01, Alan Kennedy wrote:
> Rim wrote:
> 
> > What do you think about providing a statement to assign values
> > without assigning type?
> > 
> > '=' statement assigns value and type
> > ':=' statement assigns value ony
> 
> I think the concept has some merit. I think that sometimes it useful to ensure
> that the target of a rebind operation have the same type as the object which was
> bound before the rebind.
> 
> I know that the same effect can be achieved by descriptors or overriding
> "setattr" et al. Or something like this

Or maybe:

class stricttype(object):

    counter = 1

    def __init__(self, required_type, doc=None, real_attr=None):
        self.required_type = required_type
        if not real_attr:
            real_attr = '_stricttype_attr_%i' % stricttype.counter
            stricttype.counter += 1
        self.real_attr = real_attr
        self.doc = doc

    def __set__(self, obj, value):
        if not isinstance(value, self.required_type):
            raise TypeError, 'must be of type %r' % self.required_type
        setattr(obj, self.real_attr, value)

    def __get__(self, obj, cls):
        return getattr(obj, self.real_attr)

    def __del__(self, obj):
        delattr(obj, self.real_attr)

    def __doc__(self, obj):
        return self.doc


class IntPoint(object):

    def __init__(self, x, y):
        self.x = x
        self.y = y

    def __str__(self):
        return 'Point: (%i, %i)' % (self.x, self.y)

    x = stricttype(int)
    y = stricttype(int)

>>> p = IntPoint(1, 1)
>>> p
Point: (1, 1)
>>> p.x = 2
>>> p
Point: (2, 1)
>>> p.x = 2.2
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "stricttype.py", line 44, in ?
    p.x = 2.2
  File "stricttype.py", line 15, in __set__
    raise TypeError, 'must be of type %r' % self.required_type
TypeError: must be of type <type 'int'>


If we're talking about optimizations, there's no reason something like
Psyco couldn't specifically look for specific descriptors like
stricttype, and probably replace that implementation with something
better optimized.

  Ian






From ajw126 at york.ac.uk  Wed Jul  9 08:28:38 2003
From: ajw126 at york.ac.uk (Andrew Wilkinson)
Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 12:28:38 +0000
Subject: copy list, which way is best? /style
References: <begt35$4sd5m$1@fu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <3f0bfc4e$0$45185$65c69314@mercury.nildram.net>

Andreas Kuntzagk wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> There are three ways to (shallow)copy a list l I'm aware of:
> 
>>>> l2=list(l)
>>>> l2=l[:]
>>>> l2.copy.copy(l)
> 
> Are there any differences? Are there more (reasonable) ways?
> I think the first is the most pythonic, second looks more like this other
> p-language and third requires an import, so I would prefer the first.
> Do you agree?
> 
> Andreas

The way I'd do it is 

from copy import copy
l2 = copy(l1)

or

from copy import deepcopy
l2 = deepcopy(l1)

I don't know what the difference is, if any, but I think this way is more
readable.

HTH,
Andrew Wilkinson

-- 
Study + Hard Work + Loud Profanity = Good Code





From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Tue Jul 15 10:40:34 2003
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 10:40:34 -0400
Subject: Stop Python from exiting upon error in Windows
References: <vh6jmv2f767h8b@corp.supernews.com> <n2o6hvcahk7dlmn9t26tvis8umnfg1tdeo@4ax.com> <pan.2003.07.15.03.21.44.980226@zexcite.zcom>
Message-ID: <vh84k8r66t8885@news.supernews.com>

"Conrad" <zneptune321 at zexcite.zcom> wrote in message
news:pan.2003.07.15.03.21.44.980226 at zexcite.zcom...
> Years ago, Nostradamus predicted that on Mon, 14 Jul 2003 20:06:14 -0700,
> Tom Plunket would write, saying:
>
> > Robert wrote:
> >
> >> How can I stop the Python interpreter from exiting when an error
occurs?
> >
> > create a batchfile, tell Windows that the association of Python
> > files is to that batch file, and put this in the file:
> >
> > python.exe %1
> > pause
> >
> >
> > Or- catch the error in your mainline, and do a sys.raw_input()
> > call on exception.
> >
> > -tom!
>
> Or the third, and admittedly brute force solution
> I use is to fire up the DOS shell, (click on START,
> then RUN, then type "command"). Depending on which
> Win you're running, you may want to run DOSKEY,
> which lets you cursor back up to previous commands.
>
> Once you've got the command window up (and doskeyed),
> cd to your python source directory, and type in
> something like *C:\python22\python.exe mypythonfile.py*
> (leave out the *s and be sure python is in the same
> place on your machine.)
>
> This doesn't keep the python interpreter from exiting,
> but it does keep the DOS window open to let you see
> your error messages.
>
> I admit it's ugly, but hey, I mostly develop in
> FreeBSD and Linux, where the CLI is your buddy ;-)

It may be ugly, but that's how I develop on my system
(currently Windows XP, was 98SE until last week.)

You don't have to put in the full path to Python if you
rig the command prompt you're using to add Python to
the path as the initialization command. That trick should
also let you set up PYTHONPATH for the project.

I keep a command prompt instance in each project
directory, pointing to the correct initialization for the
project. Then I've got a small batch file for each test
module. A mouse click to switch windows, three
key strokes and voila! the test runs (or not, as the
case may be.) It avoids any possible problem with
PythonWin polluting itself by not refreshing everything
on a retest. I can't speak for Idle, but I think it's got
some of the same problems of not isolating the program
under test.

John Roth
>
> Conrad
>
>





From bgailer at alum.rpi.edu  Sat Jul 12 13:22:44 2003
From: bgailer at alum.rpi.edu (Bob Gailer)
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 11:22:44 -0600
Subject: How do I have a client shutdown a win32 COM server?
In-Reply-To: <zlXPa.16194$BM.5314940@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com>
References: <c9d82136.0307120847.4fdd12fa@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20030712112145.028a9c28@66.28.54.253>


>"Noah" <noah at noah.org> wrote in message
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > How do I shutdown a win32 COM server?
> >

If that does not do it try:
   comobject.Quit()

Bob Gailer
bgailer at alum.rpi.edu
303 442 2625
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From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Jul  3 10:13:51 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 10:13:51 -0400
Subject: Python - get key pressing ?
References: <mailman.1057217886.5423.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3F043A1F.81E6CA6@engcorp.com>

Krisztian Kepes wrote:
> 
> I want to create an py program what process datas for long time.
> But: I want to abort it if I need.
> Not with Ctrl+Break !

Why not?  Ctrl+Break, or more typically Ctrl-C, is the de facto standard 
approach for terminating a console (non-GUI) application.

> If I push a key (B, or other), the script must stop his work, and save the 
> result created before.

In this case, just wrap the code with a "try/except KeyboardInterrupt" and
put your "stop and save" code in the except block.  (Note that Ctrl-Break
will bypass this, but Ctrl-C is caught as you would expect.)

Also, when posting questions of this nature it's a good idea explicitly 
to specify your platform (Linux, Windows, etc).

-Peter



From david.isal at wanadoo.fr  Sat Jul 12 07:50:48 2003
From: david.isal at wanadoo.fr (David Isal)
Date: 12 Jul 2003 11:50:48 GMT
Subject: Python extension on Windows
References: <bemf6t$l1r$1@news-reader4.wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <Xns93B68E8553E4Edavidisalwanadoofr@193.252.19.141>

thank you guys for your advices ;-)



From max at alcyone.com  Sat Jul 12 21:49:47 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 18:49:47 -0700
Subject: removing spaces from front and end of filenames
References: <beqdf0$m2q$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <3F10BABB.D548961B@alcyone.com>

hokiegal99 wrote:

> This script works as I expect, except for the last section. I want the
> last section to actually remove all spaces from the front and/or end
> of
> filenames. For example, a file that was named "  test  " would be
> renamed "test" (the 2 spaces before and after the filename removed).
> Any
> suggestions on how to do this?

That's what the .strip method, which is what you're using, does.  If
it's not working for you you're doing something else wrong.

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ The meaning of life is that it stops.
\__/  Franz Kafka



From vivek at cs.unipune.ernet.in  Wed Jul 16 07:43:11 2003
From: vivek at cs.unipune.ernet.in (vivek at cs.unipune.ernet.in)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 17:13:11 +0530
Subject: XML <=> database
In-Reply-To: <20030716170049.A3736@cs.unipune.ernet.in>; from vivek@cs.unipune.ernet.in on Wed, Jul 16, 2003 at 05:00:49PM +0530
References: <20030716170049.A3736@cs.unipune.ernet.in>
Message-ID: <20030716171311.A3783@cs.unipune.ernet.in>

> 
> >   There will be a three tier architechture. One web application, Web Server,
> > one Application Server and the Database backend. The Web server will get the 
> > data as a XML document. This will be passed to the application server that 
> > will parse the document and will insert/Update/Delete the data in the database
> > Server. Similarly the data will be retrieved from the database and will be
> > converted in a XML document by the application server and will be send to the
> > user's browser through the web server.
> 
> One wonders to whom, exactly, this architecture seems like a *good* idea.
> An Application server which accepts things in a mock-SQL XML language,
> translates to XML and ships it off to the database? Why is that better
> than having the web server send SQL directly to the database? What,
> exactly, does the extra tier buy?
> [It's not flexibility if all it accepts is a mock-SQL XML language...
> writing SQL directly is probably easier.]
> 
> > I told him that we can use python for this purpose as there are a lot of
> > modules available for XML parsing in Python. And also it will be much easier
> > for Students to learn Python as compared to Java. Somehow I managed him to
> > think over it :-). But then he asked me :
> > 
> > 1. Is there something in Python which will work as an Application server like
> >    EJB ??
> 
> EJB always struck me as a particularily bad idea, sorry. *Why* do you think
> you want EJB?
> 
> > 2. He showed me the XML Integrator which is used in Java and which
> > automatically parse the XML document,convert it into a query string and
> > insert it into Oracle database backend. And while retriving data it converts
> > the retrieved data into a XML document.
> 
> Does it work with arbitrary XML documents? My guess is that it works with
> a very specific DTD [or Scheme, or whatever is fashionable today in the
> XML world]. It is probably not that hard to write something like that
> yourself, but something would already be written if someone found that
> DTD useful himself. I tend to doubt it.
> 
> Likewise, turning the database result into an XML document can often be
> done with a list comprehension and cgi.escape()...about 3 lines.
>

Can someone please post a sample code for doing this..
 
> The bigger question is what you are trying to teach your students. If
> the subject is "Three-tiered Applications with Java and Oracle", then
> it's doubtful you can use Python. If it is "Writing Web Applications",
> then I think that specing an internal architecture which seems way too
> complicated for most problems is not the way to do it. Why not give
> an exercise like "Write a blog" or "Write a shopping cart", and let
> the students design the architecture. You can, of course, mandate
> "outside requirements": "all the current stock must be kept in a specific
> Oracle table".

Actually we trying to show the students how to use XML+Web+Database as it is 
one of the hottest technology in the market :-)


> -- 
> Moshe Zadka -- http://moshez.org/
> Buffy: I don't like you hanging out with someone that... short.
> Riley: Yeah, a lot of young people nowadays are experimenting with shortness.
> Agile Programming Language -- http://www.python.org/

THX and Kind Regards
Vivek Kumar




From oodtsen at yahoo.com.tw  Mon Jul 28 05:10:08 2003
From: oodtsen at yahoo.com.tw (OOD Tsen)
Date: 28 Jul 2003 02:10:08 -0700
Subject: PyIStream and COM question for WinGraphViz
References: <mailman.1058997397.5615.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <38876f52.0307280110.32d56946@posting.google.com>

I am the author of Wingraphviz.

And I found somebody needs a samples of wingraphviz  in python-language.

May I have put your code as a sample on my site ? 

OOD Tsen / 7/28 2003
oodtsen at yahoo.com.tw



From davidcfox at post.harvard.edu  Tue Jul 29 17:13:41 2003
From: davidcfox at post.harvard.edu (David C. Fox)
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 21:13:41 GMT
Subject: inverse of the zip function
Message-ID: <9sBVa.12998$o%2.6289@sccrnsc02>

Is there a function which takes a list of tuples and returns a list of 
lists made up of the first element of each tuple, the second element of 
each tuple, etc.?

In other words, the the inverse of the built-in zip function?

David




From uwe.schmitt at procoders.net  Wed Jul  9 10:27:18 2003
From: uwe.schmitt at procoders.net (Uwe Schmitt)
Date: 9 Jul 2003 14:27:18 GMT
Subject: python + cluster computing
Message-ID: <beh8o6$fg86$2@hades.rz.uni-saarland.de>

Hi,

I found several Python bindings for the MPI protocol,
can anybody report some opinions and experiences ?

Greetings, Uwe.



-- 
Dr. rer. nat. Uwe Schmitt   http://www.procoders.net                      
schmitt at procoders.net      "A service to open source is a service to mankind."



From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Fri Jul 11 14:07:20 2003
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 11 Jul 2003 14:07:20 -0400
Subject: Embedding Python, threading and scalability
References: <mailman.1057884556.438.python-list@python.org> <bemhsb$dgn$1@panix3.panix.com> <7xvfu983ip.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <bemuco$58e$1@panix3.panix.com>

In article <7xvfu983ip.fsf at ruckus.brouhaha.com>,
Paul Rubin  <http://phr.cx at NOSPAM.invalid> wrote:
>aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) writes:
>>
>> Not particularly.  Most threading at the application level is done for
>> one or more of three purposes:
>> 
>> * Allowing background work and fast response in a GUI application
>> 
>> * Scalable I/O
>> 
>> * Autonomous sections of code for algorithmic simplicity (e.g.
>> simulations)
>
>Um, concurrent access by multiple clients for server applications?

That's functionally an I/O thing, combined possibly with background
work.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"Not everything in life has a clue in front of it...."  --JMS



From mertz at gnosis.cx  Wed Jul 16 17:18:50 2003
From: mertz at gnosis.cx (Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 17:18:50 -0400
Subject: [Announce] Gnosis Utils 1.1.0 (update)
Message-ID: <6EcF/kKkX8yC092yn@gnosis.cx>         

** I bit the bullet an bought more bandwidth, this notice is
** updated to reflect the permanent URL for Gnosis Utilities

[Announce] Gnosis Utils 1.1.0

This release contains enhancements to gnosis.xml.objectify.

    Added _XO_.__repr__ method to make nodes print in a nicer,
    more compact fashion.

    Added ._seq attribute to node objects to support structure
    preserving convenience functions.  Specifically, older
    versions of gnosis.xml.objectify lost information about mixed
    content and the order of children.  E.g.,

      >>> xml = '<foo>Mixed <i>content</i> is <b>good</b></foo>'
      >>> obj = XO(xml,EXPAT).make_instance()
      >>> obj.PCDATA, obj.i.PCDATA, obj.b.PCDATA
      (u'Mixed is', u'content', u'good')

    We had no way of knowing where inside <foo> the <i> and the
    <b> occur, nor even which child element occurs first.

    Now we can recover that information:

      >>> from gnosis.xml.objectify import content, children
      >>> content(obj)
      [u'Mixed ', <i id="30264c">, u' is ', <b id="30292c">]
      >>> children(obj)
      [<i id="30264c">, <b id="30292c">]

    Sequence information and convenience methods are NOT
    SUPPORTED (yet?) for the DOM parser, only for EXPAT!

    Changed default parser to EXPAT.  If you have relied on the
    special attribute ._XML that the DOM parser attaches to
    nodes, you will now need to explicitly specify DOM as the
    parser used.  However, the new sequence functions pretty well
    handle the job pyobj._XML used to do (in a different way).

    Some newer versions of PyXML report CDATA as #cdata-section
    nodes rather than as #text.  We deal with it either way now.

It may be obtained at:

    http://gnosis.python-hosting.com/Gnosis_Utils-1.1.0.tar.gz

(this URL is different from usual since my main site was slashdotted,
and I'm worried about my monthly bandwidth limit; I'll copy the file
to its regular home next month).

Try it out, have fun, send feedback!

David Mertz (mertz at gnosis.cx)
Frank McIngvale (frankm at hiwaay.net)

------------------------------------------------------------------------

BACKGROUND:  Gnosis Utilities contains a number of Python libraries, most
(but not all) related to working with XML.  These include:

    gnosis.indexer          (Full-text indexing/searching)
    gnosis.xml.pickle       (XML pickling of Python objects)
    gnosis.xml.objectify    (Any XML to "native" Python objects)
    gnosis.xml.validity     (Enforce validity constraints)
    gnosis.xml.indexer      (XPATH indexing of XML documents)
    [...].convert.txt2html  (Convert ASCII source files to HTML)
    gnosis.util.dtd2sql     (DTD -> SQL 'CREATE TABLE' statements)
    gnosis.util.sql2dtd     (SQL query -> DTD for query results)
    gnosis.util.xml2sql     (XML -> SQL 'INSERT INTO' statements)
    gnosis.util.combinators (Combinatorial higher-order functions)
    gnosis.util.introspect  (Introspect Python objects)
    gnosis.magic            (Multimethods, metaclasses, etc)

...and so much more! :-)





From mazu at go2.pl  Thu Jul 10 01:46:04 2003
From: mazu at go2.pl (mazu)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 07:46:04 +0200
Subject: Problems Compiling PyQt3.7
Message-ID: <beiudf$bvg$1@atlantis.news.tpi.pl>

  I get errors about QAssistantClient while compiling PyQt 3.7, on my
   debian woody with Qt 3.1.2. Here is compiler message:

cd qt && /usr/bin/make -f Makefile
make[1]: Entering directory `/Downloads/KDE - libs/PyQt-x11-gpl-3.7/qt'
g++ -c -pipe -w -O2 -D_REENTRANT -fPIC  -DSIP_MAKE_MODULE_DLL 
-DQT_NO_DEBUG -DQT_THREAD_SUPPORT -I/usr/share/qt3/mkspecs/default -I. -I.
-I/usr/include/python2.1 -I/usr/share/qt3/include -o qtcmodule.o 
qtcmodule.cpp
In file included from qtcmodule.cpp:37:
sip/qassistantclient.sip:37: qassistantclient.h: No such file or directory
In file included from qtcmodule.cpp:37:
sipqtQAssistantClient.h:42: parse error before `{'
sipqtQAssistantClient.h:45: destructors must be member functions
sipqtQAssistantClient.h:49: non-member function `property(const char *)' 
cannot have `const' method qualifier
sipqtQAssistantClient.h:82: parse error before `private'
sipqtQAssistantClient.h:84: syntax error before `&'
sipqtQAssistantClient.h:87: parse error before `}'
sipqtQAssistantClient.h:89: syntax error before `*'
make[1]: *** [qtcmodule.o] Error 1
make[1]: Leaving directory `/Downloads/KDE - libs/PyQt-x11-gpl-3.7/qt'
make: *** [sub-qt] Error 2

Anybody know any solution to this problem? I've got libqt3-mt, 
libqt3-mt-dev, and Qt 3.1.2already installed.

--
mazu




From bokr at oz.net  Thu Jul 31 13:53:09 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 31 Jul 2003 17:53:09 GMT
Subject: How to get Windows physical RAM using python?
References: <bg90lh$bkp$1@news3.bu.edu> <bg92o2$onr$1@news3.bu.edu> <bg9btk$5ia$06$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <bgbl25$4v6$0@216.39.172.122>

On Wed, 30 Jul 2003 23:04:56 +0200, =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?= <martin at v.loewis.de> wrote:

>Mark wrote:
>
>> OK, How to check the amount of Windows physical RAM using python?
>
>You should call the GlobalMemoryStatus(Ex) function. To my knowledge,
>there is no Python wrapper for it, yet, so you would need to write one.
>
>Regards,
>Martin
>
====< memorystatus.c >=============================================
/*
** memorystatus.c
** Version 0.01 20030731 10:45:12 Bengt Richter bokr at oz.net
**
*/

#include "Python.h"
#include <windows.h>

static char doc_memstat[] =
    "Returns list of 7 integers:\n"
    "   [0]: percent of memory in use\n"
    "   [1]: bytes of physical memory\n"
    "   [2]: free physical memory bytes\n"
    "   [3]: bytes of paging file\n"
    "   [4]: free bytes of paging file\n"
    "   [5]: user bytes of address space\n"
    "   [6]: free user bytes\n";

static PyObject *
memorystatus_memstat(PyObject *self, PyObject *args)
{
    PyObject *rv;
    MEMORYSTATUS ms;
    GlobalMemoryStatus( &ms );

    if (!PyArg_ParseTuple(args, "")) /* No arguments */
        return NULL;
    rv = Py_BuildValue("[i,i,i,i,i,i,i]",
        ms.dwMemoryLoad,    // percent of memory in use 
        ms.dwTotalPhys,     // bytes of physical memory 
        ms.dwAvailPhys,     // free physical memory bytes 
        ms.dwTotalPageFile, // bytes of paging file 
        ms.dwAvailPageFile, // free bytes of paging file 
        ms.dwTotalVirtual,  // user bytes of address space 
        ms.dwAvailVirtual   // free user bytes 
    ); 
    return rv;
}

/* List of functions defined in the module */
static struct PyMethodDef memorystatus_module_methods[] = {
    {"memstat", memorystatus_memstat, METH_VARARGS, doc_memstat},
    {NULL, NULL}                 /* sentinel */
};


/* Initialization function for the module (*must* be called initmemorystatus) */
static char doc_memorystatus[] = "Get win32 memory status numbers (see memstat method)";

DL_EXPORT(void)
initmemorystatus(void)
{
    PyObject *m, *d, *x;

    /* Create the module and add the functions */
    m = Py_InitModule("memorystatus", memorystatus_module_methods);
    d = PyModule_GetDict(m);
    x = PyString_FromString(doc_memorystatus);
    PyDict_SetItemString(d, "__doc__", x);
    Py_XDECREF(x);
}
===================================================================

You may find a little .cmd file like this (tailored to your system) handy:

[10:55] C:\pywk\ut\memorystatus>type \util\mkpydll.cmd
@cl -LD -nologo -Id:\python22\include %1.c -link -LIBPATH:D:\python22\libs -export:init%1

[10:56] C:\pywk\ut\memorystatus>mkpydll memorystatus
memorystatus.c
   Creating library memorystatus.lib and object memorystatus.exp

[10:56] C:\pywk\ut\memorystatus>python

(I'll indent this one space to avoid spurious quote highlights)

 Python 2.2.2 (#37, Oct 14 2002, 17:02:34) [MSC 32 bit (Intel)] on win32
 Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
 >>> import memorystatus
 >>> help(memorystatus)
 Help on module memorystatus:

 NAME
     memorystatus - Get win32 memory status numbers (see memstat method)

 FILE
     c:\pywk\ut\memorystatus\memorystatus.dll

 FUNCTIONS
     memstat(...)
         Returns list of 7 integers:
         [0]: percent of memory in use
         [1]: bytes of physical memory
         [2]: free physical memory bytes
         [3]: bytes of paging file
         [4]: free bytes of paging file
         [5]: user bytes of address space
         [6]: free user bytes

 DATA
     __file__ = 'memorystatus.dll'
     __name__ = 'memorystatus'


 >>> memorystatus.memstat()
 [0, 334929920, 271536128, 942825472, 861339648, 2147352576, 2129780736]

Warning: Just now did this. Not tested beyond what you see!!

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Thu Jul 17 13:27:59 2003
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 13:27:59 -0400
Subject: anything like C++ references?
References: <b8c3hvsesjoumiboobml3nsnajtha99mp1@4ax.com> <mailman.1058129901.28248.python-list@python.org> <plk3hv0s1m2egf4s34jo6vjedk0q8r2mu9@4ax.com> <m365m6ul5c.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de> <mailman.1058145500.19181.python-list@python.org> <e464hvcq48q3240ecfcs6jqhqf616q7v1a@4ax.com> <3F1256C0.4BDC816F@alcyone.com> <vdl6hvckre5pms4n8bcn0nf1ma09ikse0f@4ax.com> <bf1ocu$jeq$0@216.39.172.122> <i5r8hvk57sjpagf2bnttov2h4qohg0pjq2@4ax.com> <bf2n7o$bri$0@216.39.172.122> <747bhv8r2h398bv121seft4spukd6bcsug@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <XKidndd1SNg9QYuiXTWJiw@comcast.com>

"Stephen Horne" <intentionally at blank.co.uk> wrote in message
> Anyway, Algol and Fortran apparently (I didn't know this until
today)
> *always* used call-by-reference.

Not true (about Fortran).  I vaguely remember (about 1980) when IBM
Fortran switched from one calling convention to another.  I initially
missed the one-line change in the manual update sheets.  A working
program started giving strange results until I finally figured out
what was going on and then found the one line 'announcement'.

Terry J. Reedy





From erick_bodine at attbi.com  Tue Jul 15 13:20:35 2003
From: erick_bodine at attbi.com (erick_bodine at attbi.com)
Date: 15 Jul 2003 10:20:35 -0700
Subject: creating sparse files on win32
Message-ID: <b3d0189f.0307150920.238e072b@posting.google.com>

I need to create some sparse files on a win32 system (2000 & 2003
Server) in order to do some testing of another application (not
python).  I have been poking around the win32all extensions (win32file
specifically) that come w/ ActivePython but can't find anything that
allows me to create a file with the 'sparse file attribute' set.

Has anyone done this in python?

--ERick



From mike at nospam.com  Thu Jul 24 18:02:21 2003
From: mike at nospam.com (Mike Rovner)
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 15:02:21 -0700
Subject: Don't want to do the regexp test twice
References: <20030724214457.GA874@mirk.lan>
Message-ID: <bfpkus$bl0$2@main.gmane.org>

Egbert Bouwman wrote:

> pat = re.compile(r'...')
> for line in mylist:
>     if ... :
>         ....
>     elif ... :
>         ....
>     elif pat.search(line):
>         mat = pat.search(line)
>     elif ... :
>        ...
>     else ...:
>        ...
> Is there a way to to do this job with only one pat.search(line) ?

for line in mylist:
    if ... :
        ....
    elif ... :
        ....
    else:
        mat = pat.search(line)
        if mat:
           ...
        elif ... :
           ...
        else ...:
           ...

Mike







From andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au  Tue Jul  8 19:29:31 2003
From: andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au (Andrew MacIntyre)
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 09:29:31 +1000 (EST)
Subject: Shared vs static link performance hit --and Windows?
In-Reply-To: <6btlgvgjq48mbtmu097939dl1c1gmki0qd@4ax.com>
References: <k7clgvoqjur1f10mosue3os74vv7nd34hi@4ax.com>
 <mailman.1057672018.10107.python-list@python.org> <6btlgvgjq48mbtmu097939dl1c1gmki0qd@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <20030709092503.E81274@bullseye.apana.org.au>

On Tue, 8 Jul 2003, Christos TZOTZIOY Georgiou wrote:

> Thanks, Skip; now if only someone more Windows-knowledgeable than me
> could also comment on whether we could see a similar speed increase by
> building a static Windows EXE...

AFAIK, Windows & OS/2 don't really use the concept of PIC code for DLLs,
as the DLLs get mapped into system address space rather than user address
space, and all processes that access DLL code access the code at the same
address.

--
Andrew I MacIntyre                     "These thoughts are mine alone..."
E-mail: andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au  (pref) | Snail: PO Box 370
        andymac at pcug.org.au             (alt) |        Belconnen  ACT  2616
Web:    http://www.andymac.org/               |        Australia




From max at alcyone.com  Thu Jul  3 00:45:15 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 21:45:15 -0700
Subject: zip() or what?
References: <3F03AFA8.7030905@ihug.co.nz>
Message-ID: <3F03B4DB.545DC6B5@alcyone.com>

Ray Tomes wrote:

> What I really wanted was this:
> 
> [[0.1,1.1,2.1],[0.2,1.2,2.2]]
> 
> So my question is how do I do that easily?

You wanted

	zip(*x)

> Alternatively, is there a construct to get x[*][i] if you know what I
> mean?

Probably

	[i[1] for i in x]

or

	map(lambda i: i[1], x)

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ What would physics look like without gravitation?
\__/  Albert Einstein



From xpm4senn001 at sneakemail.com  Tue Jul  1 21:34:06 2003
From: xpm4senn001 at sneakemail.com (John Fitzsimons)
Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 11:34:06 +1000
Subject: "Newbie" questions - "unique" sorting ?
References: <vgu1fvgj3klsvvlnoedt151mh7otc1ajqn@4ax.com> <mailman.1056510824.3472.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bt74gvs6bncuiteep8t3kosirivplmjiku@4ax.com>

On Tue, 24 Jun 2003 22:11:59 -0500, John Hunter
<jdhunter at ace.bsd.uchicago.edu> wrote:

>>>>>> "John" == John Fitzsimons <xpm4senn001 at sneakemail.com> writes:

Hi John,

>    John> (B) I am wanting to sort words (or is that strings ?) into a
>    John> list from a clipboard and/or file input and/or....

>    John> (C) To sort out the list of "unique" words/strings.

>The classic idiom for getting a unique list is to use a dictionary
>http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/52560.

< snip >

Thanks for your input/comments.  :-)

>Very large
>text files (you mentioned 50MB) are extremely rare.  

< snip >

Not if I convert news posts to a text file. Not so hard to get 
files >10MB that way. I expect that some would be >50MB.  :-)


Regards, John.

-- 
 ****************************************************
  ,-._|\    John Fitzsimons - Melbourne, Australia.
 /  Oz  \   http://www.vicnet.net.au/~johnf/welcome.htm
 \_,--.x/   http://clients.net2000.com.au/~johnf/
       v    
            




From alanmk at hotmail.com  Thu Jul 17 12:13:15 2003
From: alanmk at hotmail.com (Alan Kennedy)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 17:13:15 +0100
Subject: Co-routines
References: <g7xRa.305$fF.9914@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au> <3F16A34A.5742F54F@engcorp.com> <pBxRa.308$fF.9875@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au>
Message-ID: <3F16CB1A.CC355FD1@hotmail.com>

thewrights at ozemail.com.au wrote:

> From the python grammar:
> 
>     funcdef    ::= "def" funcname "(" [parameter_list] ")" ":" suite
> 
> I want the statements in <suite> to be executed on a statement by
> statement basis, with no particular restrictions on *what* those
> statements are. It's the execution stepping I'm interested in...

Might your requirements be better met by a debugger, which is feeding
step instructions to a normal python program? This could be done
extending the Pdb debugger class in module Lib/pdb.py to implement
your own single step method. This could control various executing
suites of code, according to your chosen scheduling algorithm.

Or might you be better off to actually spawn separate threads, and
have each thread carry out each instruction, line by line, and then
enter a blocking wait for either a "continue" token from a
Queue.Queue(), or "Continue" message signalled on a
threading.Condition()?

> the I/O in my example was just that. 

Or is that you want to control the states of your objects, depending
on the readiness status of various I/O channels? And you want to run
everything in one thread? In which case you might be looking for
ultra-lightweight threads, based on generators, combined with an
asynchronous I/O detection and reaction platform, such as asyncore,
twisted or medusa.

> I understand that there will
> be all the problems on contention/race etc (just like if the
> functions were going in separate threads)

If the objects which are being distributed out to your
(ultra-lightweight) threads are local to the functions/objects (i.e.
not shared with other functions/objects) that process them, then there
is no contention, and thus no locking required.

How many separate "threads" of execution are you seeking to create?

-- 
alan kennedy
-----------------------------------------------------
check http headers here: http://xhaus.com/headers
email alan:              http://xhaus.com/mailto/alan



From FBatista at uniFON.com.ar  Thu Jul 24 15:11:44 2003
From: FBatista at uniFON.com.ar (Batista, Facundo)
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 16:11:44 -0300
Subject: running python
Message-ID: <A128D751272CD411BC9200508BC2194D03382C35@escpl.tcp.com.ar>

Platform?


#- -----Mensaje original-----
#- De: Iain Macalister [mailto:MACALISTER at coltonhouse43.freeserve.co.uk]
#- Enviado el: Jueves 24 de Julio de 2003 3:53 PM
#- Para: python-list at python.org
#- Asunto: running python
#- 
#- 
#- How do you run files written with python if you don't have 
#- the compiler and
#- stuff on your computer?
#- 
#- 
#- -- 
#- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
#- 





. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
ADVERTENCIA  

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son para uso exclusivo del destinatario y pueden contener informaci?n
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Si Ud. No es uno de los destinatarios consignados o la persona responsable
de hacer llegar este mensaje a los destinatarios consignados, no est?
autorizado a divulgar, copiar, distribuir o retener informaci?n (o parte de
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remitente, borre el mensaje original y borre las copias (impresas o grabadas
en cualquier medio magn?tico) que pueda haber realizado del mismo. 

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From ask at me.com  Sun Jul  6 19:49:40 2003
From: ask at me.com (Greg Krohn)
Date: Sun, 06 Jul 2003 23:49:40 GMT
Subject: python blogging software
References: <Xns93B0F0F1A58A2cpl19ghumspamgourmet@62.153.159.134>
Message-ID: <oA2Oa.30893$C83.2655519@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>

"Harald Massa" <cpl.19.ghum at spamgourmet.com> wrote in message
news:Xns93B0F0F1A58A2cpl19ghumspamgourmet at 62.153.159.134...
> which one should I use? Recommendations?
>
> Harald

Are you running Zope[1]? If so, it's fairly trivial to brew your own[2]. If
your homebrew always turns out stale, be cool like me and try Squishdot[3]
(this _might_ be overkill if you strictly want a blog.) Hope this helps.

[1] http://www.zope.org
[2] http://www.evolt.org/article/A_Quick_and_Dirty_Blog_using_Zope/20/23583/
[3] http://squishdot.org/


Greg (who obviously has brew on his mind)





From jjl at pobox.com  Sun Jul 20 19:19:44 2003
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J. Lee)
Date: 21 Jul 2003 00:19:44 +0100
Subject: Python scripting with Paint Shop Pro 8.0
References: <kl3lhvgh5iillo5g9jvff92qkc8i2022nm@4ax.com> <bfe6bo$cdr$1@panix2.panix.com> <ucvlhvgj9nm4op4u2rqrkif7n04d520gbo@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <87d6g4wzu7.fsf@pobox.com>

Marc Wilson <marc at cleopatra.co.uk> writes:
[...]
> There's no obvious way to specify this on the command line- in fact the
> phrase "command line" doesn't seem to occur in the help.
> 
> The scripts all start with "from JascApp import *" - does this suggest that
> the scripts are callable from "plain" python?  I want a "quiet" execution

Yes.  Do a find for 'JascApp.pyd'.  Or just for '*.pyd'.


> with no Windows interaction.  I assume that there is a library called
> JascApp.<something> and the path would need to include that?

Yes, <something> == 'pyd' usually.  But you never know the ways people
(and especially large companies) like to mess about with conventional
ways of doing things.

The way module search paths are handled is generally less easy to
predict.  Even in the normal case, I can't remember how .pyd's are
found, if I ever knew.  Presumably Python is bundled with the
application, in some form?  In which case, it may not be trivial to
import the module.  Probably not hard once you know the answer, though
<wink>.


John



From skip at pobox.com  Wed Jul 30 09:21:10 2003
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 08:21:10 -0500
Subject: how best to handle httplib timeouts ?
In-Reply-To: <mnHVa.9399$Oz4.2070@rwcrnsc54>
References: <mnHVa.9399$Oz4.2070@rwcrnsc54>
Message-ID: <16167.50758.169561.301466@montanaro.dyndns.org>

    rich> I'm trying to write an app to monitor an IIS server, .... what is
    rich> the best way to handle this ?

Off-topic response perhaps, but if you want to monitor services running on
remote machines, you should see what's already available.  I use Nagios,
<http://www.nagios.org/>, and find it excellent for the purpose (a bit
complex to get started with, but very robust).

Skip




From news at yebu.de  Fri Jul 18 03:21:59 2003
From: news at yebu.de (Karl Scalet)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 09:21:59 +0200
Subject: scanf string in python
In-Reply-To: <bf81ih$nea$06$1@news.t-online.com>
References: <bf7ut5$vf8$03$1@news.t-online.com> <bf81ih$nea$06$1@news.t-online.com>
Message-ID: <bf8771$c172n$1@ID-141451.news.uni-berlin.de>

lehrig schrieb:
> lehrig wrote:
> 
> 
>>I have a string which is returned by a C extension.
>>
>>mystring = '(1,2,3)'
>>
>>HOW can I read the numbers in python ?
> 
> 
> Now I have done it like this:
>   tmp = mystring[1:-1]
>   tmplist = string.split(tmp,',')
>   x = int(tmplist[0])
>   y = int(tmplist[1])
>   z = int(tmplist[2])
> 
> But there should be a more convenient solution.

exec('result='+mystring)
print result

would be shorter

Karl




From yaipa at yahoo.com  Thu Jul 17 12:13:34 2003
From: yaipa at yahoo.com (yaipa h.)
Date: 17 Jul 2003 09:13:34 -0700
Subject: Regular expression help
References: <LApRa.5420$Qe5.2628@nwrddc03.gnilink.net> <mailman.1058424506.12031.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <6e07b825.0307170813.4ccfb64a@posting.google.com>

Fredrik,

Not sure about the original poster, but I can use that. Thanks!

  --Alan

"Fredrik Lundh" <fredrik at pythonware.com> wrote in message news:<mailman.1058424506.12031.python-list at python.org>...
> David Lees wrote:
> 
> > I forget how to find multiple instances of stuff between tags using
> > regular expressions.  Specifically I want to find all the text between a
> > series of begin/end pairs in a multiline file.
> >
> > I tried:
> >  >>> p = 'begin(.*)end'
> >  >>> m = re.search(p,s,re.DOTALL)
> >
> > and got everything between the first begin and last end.  I guess
> > because of a greedy match.  What I want to do is a list where each
> > element is the text between another begin/end pair.
> 
> people will tell you to use non-greedy matches, but that's often a
> bad idea in cases like this: the RE engine has to store lots of back-
> tracking information, and your program will consume a lot more
> memory than it has to (and may run out of stack and/or memory).
> 
> a better approach is to do two searches: first search for a "begin",
> and once you've found that, look for an "end"
> 
>     import re
> 
>     pos = 0
> 
>     START = re.compile("begin")
>     END = re.compile("end")
> 
>     while 1:
>         m = START.search(text, pos)
>         if not m:
>             break
>         start = m.end()
>         m = END.search(text, start)
>         if not m:
>             break
>         end = m.start()
>         process(text[start:end])
>         pos = m.end() # move forward
> 
> at this point, it's also obvious that you don't really have to use
> regular expressions:
> 
>     pos = 0
> 
>     while 1:
>         start = text.find("begin", pos)
>         if start < 0:
>             break
>         start += 5
>         end = text.find("end", start)
>         if end < 0:
>             break
>         process(text[start:end])
>         pos = end # move forward
> 
> </F>
> 
> <!-- (the eff-bot guide to) the python standard library (redux):
> http://effbot.org/zone/librarybook-index.htm
> -->



From martin at v.loewis.de  Wed Jul  9 15:54:47 2003
From: martin at v.loewis.de (Martin v. =?iso-8859-15?q?L=F6wis?=)
Date: 09 Jul 2003 21:54:47 +0200
Subject: UTF-16-LE and split() under MS-Windows XP
References: <uimgeb.ih5.ln@195.171.216.1>
Message-ID: <m33chf327s.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>

"Colin S. Miller" <colinsm.spam-me-not at picsel.com> writes:

> Where have I gone wrong, and what is the correct method
> to verify the BOM mark?

readline is not supported in the UTF-16 codec. You have to read the
entire file, and perform .split. Looking at the BOM should not be
necessary, as the UTF-16 codec will do so on its own.

Regards,
Martin




From oren-py-l at hishome.net  Fri Jul 18 02:57:40 2003
From: oren-py-l at hishome.net (Oren Tirosh)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 02:57:40 -0400
Subject: A challenge to the ASCII proponents.
In-Reply-To: <bf7ohs$jcg$0@216.39.172.122>
References: <mailman.1058278343.23104.python-list@python.org> <bf167a$pvt$1@panix2.panix.com> <ufzl7rdno.fsf@online.no> <3F142A58.80426AA4@hotmail.com> <2259b0e2.0307161620.4a9353f1@posting.google.com> <Xns93BB246FDDBCFJanC@213.118.75.80> <3F168011.3AEB3EFC@hotmail.com> <bf7ohs$jcg$0@216.39.172.122>
Message-ID: <20030718065740.GA92151@hishome.net>

On Fri, Jul 18, 2003 at 03:11:56AM +0000, Bengt Richter wrote:
> ====< giginooskoo.html >======================================================
> <html><head>
> <META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; CHARSET=iso-8859-7">
> <style> H1 {font-size: 72pt} </style>
> <title>gignooskoo</title></head><body>
> <h1>&#947;&#943;&#947;&#957;&#969;&#963;&#954;&#969;</h1>
> </body></html>
> ==============================================================================

Actually, you don't need the "CHARSET=iso-8859-7". It would be required 
if you used the bytes 227, 223, 227, 237, 249, 243, 234, 249 to represent 
the characters. With numeric character references you can embed any 
character from the UCS repertoire regardless of the charset used.

    Oren




From bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au  Wed Jul  2 19:25:22 2003
From: bignose-hates-spam at and-zip-does-too.com.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 23:25:22 GMT
Subject: ASP
References: <b3116c54.0307020255.369599ef@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <slrnbg6qf6.kso.bignose-hates-spam@iris.polar.local>

On 2 Jul 2003 03:55:37 -0700, Padam Jain wrote:
> Q1.How do u generated GUID's in Asp Pages
> Q2.How do u pass x-y coordinates to ASP Pages when u click on an
> Image.
> Q3.How do u call a VBScript function in an Anchor Tag.
> Q4.How do u access Object Instance or a variable in another Frame.

I have no idea who this putative "u" person is, nor how such a person
would choose to do what you're asking about.

> Please kindly answer this question,its very urgent.I am stuck up here
> very badly.

You're stuck in the wrong newsgroup very badly.  This newsgroup
discusses Python, not ASP, and not "u".

-- 
 \       "Whenever you read a good book, it's like the author is right |
  `\   there, in the room talking to you, which is why I don't like to |
_o__)                                read good books."  -- Jack Handey |
http://bignose.squidly.org/ 9CFE12B0 791A4267 887F520C B7AC2E51 BD41714B



From max at alcyone.com  Mon Jul 21 14:47:22 2003
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 11:47:22 -0700
Subject: How to save web pages for offline reading?
References: <cb035744.0307210131.5cfbc890@posting.google.com> <bfge1v$e6v86$1@ID-63505.news.uni-berlin.de> <cb035744.0307210848.6b1328d1@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <3F1C353A.423B7773@alcyone.com>

Will Stuyvesant wrote:

> But I don't know the syntax for LIST.  Do you?  I think adding .GIF
> and .CSS to this "list" is what I want??

It just means something like

	wget -A gif,css ...

-- 
   Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
/  \ All the people in his neighborhood turn around and get mad and sing
\__/  Public Enemy



From alan.gauld at btinternet.com  Sat Jul 26 05:37:47 2003
From: alan.gauld at btinternet.com (Alan Gauld)
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 09:37:47 GMT
Subject: where is the awk to python translator program
References: <87smounf2z.fsf@jidanni.org> <mailman.1059200859.25835.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3f224b7b.872395578@news.blueyonder.co.uk>

On Sat, 26 Jul 2003 01:25:45 -0500, Skip Montanaro
<skip at pobox.com> wrote:

> Python doesn't have the implicit looping and splitting into fields that awk
> has, so you need to loop over the input and split the fields yourself:

Although the fileinput module does help out with a lot of that
kind of drudgery... certainly when you pass multiple filenames as
arguments etc.

But it still isn't awk.

Alan G
Author of the Learn to Program website
http://www.freenetpages.co.uk/hp/alan.gauld



From mepython at yahoo.com  Thu Jul 17 10:20:15 2003
From: mepython at yahoo.com (Samir Patel)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 07:20:15 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python2.3 logging utilities
Message-ID: <20030717142015.77268.qmail@web41504.mail.yahoo.com>

First of all, hats of on logging module in python 2.3.
Very elegant...

I have 2 questions regarding Handler class in logging:

1. SocketHandler: Can I send plain string instead of
pickle binary. This will allow me to send a TCP log
message to program written in other programming lang.

2. SMTPHandler: Is there any way to send an email
where server requires authentication through
logconfig.ini file. I send an email message to myself
through logging and SMTPHandler and it works perfect,
but if I want to send an email to external email
address, I can't do it because replying is not allow.
I can do it this in a python program by using ehlo and
docmd of smtplib object, but how can I do same thing
in loggers' config.ini file.

Thanks in advance

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
http://sbc.yahoo.com




From taka at net.hr  Wed Jul  9 10:37:03 2003
From: taka at net.hr (Taka)
Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 16:37:03 +0200
Subject: format discs.
References: <pan.2003.07.09.08.22.10.853337.9435@hotmail.com> <pan.2003.07.09.12.19.17.544904@net.hr> <mailman.1057755674.1585.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <pan.2003.07.09.14.36.59.870178@net.hr>

On Wed, 09 Jul 2003 15:00:33 +0200, Gerhard H?ring wrote:

> Taka wrote:
>> On Wed, 09 Jul 2003 06:26:38 +0000, Flanagan wrote:
>>>hello to all 
>>>
>>>somebody can say to me whereupon I modulate of python I can format 
>>>discs. 
>>>
>>>
>>>thanks flanagan
>> 
>> Let's presume you want to format a unix partition and that it is
>> /dev/hda1.
>> The do this:
>> 
>> #!/bin/python
>> 
>> import os
>> partition = open ('/dev/hda1', 'w')
>> 
>> for x in range(os.path.getsize('/dev/hda1'):
>> 	partition.write ('0')
>> 
>> partition.close()
>> 
>> 
>> :)
> 
> Didn't you mean ;-) instead of :) ?
> 
> Your approach is hard to beat in inefficiency.
> 
> -- Gerhard

Yes, but since file partitions are usualy bigger than your physical RAM,
you cannot do

import string
partition.write (string.zfill('0', partition.getsize('/dev/hda10')-1)





From oren-py-l at hishome.net  Mon Jul  7 01:55:15 2003
From: oren-py-l at hishome.net (Oren Tirosh)
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 01:55:15 -0400
Subject: Merlin, a fun little program
In-Reply-To: <3F08CFDF.6050603@earthlink.net>
References: <3F08CFDF.6050603@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20030707055515.GA70629@hishome.net>

On Mon, Jul 07, 2003 at 01:37:15AM +0000, Ron Stephens wrote:
> based multiple choice guesser. I re-wrote the web scraper to use Yahoo 
> rather than Google, as Google somehow recognizes it as a script now and 
> so has disabled the ability to use Google, as they say it violates their 
> terms of service. I certainly do not want to violate anyone's terms of 
> service

You can still use Google for this - just sign up for the Google API.

http://www.google.com/apis/
http://diveintomark.org/projects/pygoogle/

    Oren




From hokiegal99 at hotmail.com  Sat Jul 19 20:09:49 2003
From: hokiegal99 at hotmail.com (hokiegal99)
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 20:09:49 -0400
Subject: using functions and file renaming problem
References: <3F174E76.4000302@hotmail.com> <mailman.1058531368.14359.python-list@python.org> <3F1871A5.3020702@hotmail.com> <mailman.1058617770.12505.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3F19DDCD.5040509@hotmail.com>

Well, I think I'm finished. Thanks to everyone for the advice and in 
depth explanations. Below is the entire fix_mac_names.py script (some of 
it taken directly from you guys). I think my recursion is a bit of a 
kludge as is the format of my output, but other than that I think it's 
OK. I'm open to suggestions if anyone sees anything blatantly wrong with it.

Thanks again!


print " "
import os, re, string
setpath = raw_input("Path to the directory where you would like to fix 
names: ")
print " "
print "--- Replace Bad Characters in Directory Names & Filenames ---"
print " "
def clean_names(setpath):
	bad = re.compile(r'%2f|%25|[*?<>/\|\\]') #search for these bad chars..
	for root, dirs, files in os.walk(setpath):
		for dir in dirs:
			badchars = bad.findall(dir)	# find any bad characters
          		newdir = dir
          		for badchar in badchars:	# loop through each character in 
badchars
          			print "replaced:	",badchar,"	in dir		",newdir,"		",
              			newdir = newdir.replace(badchar,'-') #replace bad chars.
				print newdir
			if newdir:	# If there were any bad characters in the name, do this:
              			newpath = os.path.join(root,newdir)
              			oldpath = os.path.join(root,dir)
              			os.rename(oldpath,newpath)
	for root, dirs, files in os.walk(setpath):
		for file in files:
			badchars = bad.findall(file)	# find all bad chars.
          		newfile = file
          		for badchar in badchars:	# loop through each character in 
badchars
          			print "replaced:	",badchar,"	in file		",newfile,"		",
              			newfile = newfile.replace(badchar,'-') #replace bad chars.
				print newfile
			if newfile:	# If there were any bad characters in the name, do this:
              			newpath = os.path.join(root,newfile)
              			oldpath = os.path.join(root,file)
              			os.rename(oldpath,newpath)
clean_names(setpath)	#1
clean_names(setpath)	#2
clean_names(setpath)	#3
clean_names(setpath)	#4
clean_names(setpath)	#5
clean_names(setpath)	#6
clean_names(setpath)	#7
clean_names(setpath)	#8
clean_names(setpath)	#9
clean_names(setpath)	#10
print " "
print "--- Done ---"
print " "
print "--- Remove Spaces from Beginning and Ending of Directory Names & 
Filenames ---"
print " "
def clean_spaces(setpath):
	for root, dirs, files in os.walk(setpath):
     		for dir in dirs:
         		old_dname = dir
         		new_dname = old_dname.strip()
			if new_dname != old_dname:
				print "removed spaces from dir:",old_dname
				newpath = os.path.join(root,new_dname)
        				oldpath = os.path.join(root,old_dname)
        				os.rename(oldpath,newpath)
	for root, dirs, files in os.walk(setpath):
     		for file in files:
         		old_fname = file
         		new_fname = old_fname.strip()
			if new_fname != old_fname:
				print "removed spaces from file:",old_fname
				newpath = os.path.join(root,new_fname)
        				oldpath = os.path.join(root,old_fname)
        				os.rename(oldpath,newpath)
clean_spaces(setpath)	#1
clean_spaces(setpath)	#2
clean_spaces(setpath)	#3
clean_spaces(setpath)	#4
clean_spaces(setpath)	#5
clean_spaces(setpath)	#6
clean_spaces(setpath)	#7
clean_spaces(setpath)	#8
clean_spaces(setpath)	#9
clean_spaces(setpath)	#10
print " "
print "--- Done --- "
print " "




From peter at engcorp.com  Thu Jul 10 21:35:25 2003
From: peter at engcorp.com (Peter Hansen)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 21:35:25 -0400
Subject: Problem running Flawfinder with Python
References: <mailman.1057880956.11652.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <3F0E145D.9BFE3E2D@engcorp.com>

> "Crose, Carol" wrote:
> 
> 
> I need to test some lsof source code and have loaded Flawfinder 1.22 to test it.  Flawfinder  required Python 1.5 or better so I loaded Python 2.2.3.  This is all running on an HPUX 11.11 server.
> 
> When I run:
> /opt/flawfinder-1.22/flawfinder /usr/local/bin/lsof-4.67
> I get the following error:
> No such file or directory:  python
> 
> I am totally new to all these programs.  Can anyone help????

If "flawfinder" is a Python script, check the first line of it
for text that looks something like this:

  #!/usr/bin/env python

or perhaps

  #!/usr/local/bin/python

You either need the python executable installed in the specified
directory or, for the /usr/bin/env version, you need it installed
in a folder that is in the PATH.  "echo $PATH" to see what you have
now.

-Peter



From thedustbustr at aol.com  Fri Jul 25 16:32:13 2003
From: thedustbustr at aol.com (TheDustbustr)
Date: 25 Jul 2003 20:32:13 GMT
Subject: stackless python: continuation module?
References: <20030725152844.18704.00000635@mb-m18.aol.com>
Message-ID: <20030725163213.09785.00000389@mb-m11.aol.com>

Nevermind, I found a post to the Stackless mailing list that said that
continuation was a builtin but now is not in the distribution.  So uthreads is
no more.  I'm supposed to use 'import stackless' instead.

Anyone have any source code using the stackless module?  I found no
documentation about this module.

Thanks, Dustin



From milyon at wp.pl  Wed Jul  9 11:07:18 2003
From: milyon at wp.pl (K)
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 17:07:18 +0200
Subject: Odp: Newbie - No module named stdwin
References: <beh8d4$gnu$1@topaz.icpnet.pl> <cEmdnTR7Cpmct5GiRTvUqg@speakeasy.net>
Message-ID: <behb4c$iov$1@topaz.icpnet.pl>

U?ytkownik A.M. Kuchling <amk at amk.ca> w wiadomo?ci do grup dyskusyjnych
napisa?:cEmdnTR7Cpmct5GiRTvUqg at speakeasy.net...

> Stdwin is very old and very dead; what document are you reading that
> suggests using it?  Most GUI development in Python is done using Tkinter,
> though there's also wxWindows, PyQt, and Gtk+ interfaces available. If you
> downloaded a binary Windows installer from somewhere, it probably
> includes Tkinter; the other interfaces would be add-on packages.
>
> --amk


ok thanks so how command can open a window ?





From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Tue Jul 15 23:39:46 2003
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 15 Jul 2003 23:39:46 -0400
Subject: Nice presentation of Dana Moore on Oscon
References: <3F0E63AA.4000107@embeddedsystems.nl> <bemi6m$evd$1@panix3.panix.com>
Message-ID: <bf2he2$k03$1@panix3.panix.com>

In article <bemi6m$evd$1 at panix3.panix.com>, Aahz <aahz at pythoncraft.com> wrote:
>In article <3F0E63AA.4000107 at embeddedsystems.nl>,
>Gerrit Muller  <gerrit.muller at embeddedsystems.nl> wrote:
>>
>>A very nice presentation. I do have one small comment: Python is 
>>characterized as "weakly typed", which should be "dynamic types", or 
>>what people often mean to say "not static typed".
>
>Unfortunately, Bruce Eckel has been perpetuating that terminology.  I'm
>in the process of writing a rebuttal.
>
>http://www.artima.com/intv/typing.html

All right, my rebuttal is now at
http://www.artima.com/weblogs/viewpost.jsp?thread=7590
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"Not everything in life has a clue in front of it...."  --JMS



From sross at connectmail.carleton.ca  Thu Jul 10 14:06:48 2003
From: sross at connectmail.carleton.ca (Sean Ross)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 14:06:48 -0400
Subject: replace value of a specific position
References: <bek8ce$ok2$1@news.uni-kl.de> <3F0DA6FB.90603@soraia.com>
Message-ID: <jVhPa.8908$ru2.873667@news20.bellglobal.com>

"Joe Francia" <usenet at soraia.com> wrote in message
news:3F0DA6FB.90603 at soraia.com...
[snip]
>  >>> t = '010010101001001110100101010111'
>  >>> t = string.join([t[:5], '2', t[6:]], '')
>  >>> t
> 010012101001001110100101010111


# or, without importing the string module:
>>> t = '010010101001001110100101010111'
>>> t = ''.join((t[:5],'2',t[6:]))
>>> t
'010012101001001110100101010111'





From staschuk at telusplanet.net  Tue Jul  1 16:03:43 2003
From: staschuk at telusplanet.net (Steven Taschuk)
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 14:03:43 -0600
Subject: Why does it work ?
In-Reply-To: <bds44b$10bdv9$1@ID-181365.news.dfncis.de>; from combe.michel@9online.fr on Tue, Jul 01, 2003 at 04:01:13PM +0200
References: <bds44b$10bdv9$1@ID-181365.news.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <20030701140343.B16188@tibia.amotlpaa.bogus>

Quoth Michel Combe:
> I'm trying to send a mail with an attached file. 
> I use the following code and *it works* but I don't understand why and I 
> hate that.
> 
> for filename in os.listdir(dir):
>     path = os.path.join(dir, filename)
>     if not os.path.isfile(path):
>         continue
>     ctype, encoding = mimetypes.guess_type(path)
>     if ctype is None or encoding is not None:
>         ctype = 'application/octet-stream'
>     maintype, subtype = ctype.split('/', 1)
>     if maintype == 'text':
>         fp = open(path)
>         msg = MIMEText(fp.read(), _subtype=subtype)
>         fp.close()
>     msg.add_header('Content-Disposition', 'attachment', filename=filename)
>     outer.attach(msg)

Note, btw, that this code does not set msg on all paths to its use
at the end of the for loop.  If the first file is not text/*, an
UnboundLocalError will be raised.  If a later file n is not
text/*, the file n-1 will be attached twice.

You probably want:

    if maintype == 'text':
        fp = open(path)
        try:
            msg = MIMEText(fp.read(), _subtype=subtype)
        finally:
            fp.close()
        msg.add_header('Content-Disposition', 'attachment', filename=filename)
        outer.attach(msg)

(I've also put the fp.close() in a finally block, where it
belongs.)

I also wonder about the 'encoding is not None' test.  But on to
your question:

> In the "dir" directory, I have 2 text files :
> - "texte.txt" which is the text I want inside the body of the message and 
> - "fichier.txt" which is the file I want attached.
> 
> Why is "texte.txt" the only file that I find in the body of the message. 
> Both files are text, so the MIMEText instruction shoud be executed for both 
> files, No ?
> Also add_header should be executed for both files resulting in 2 attached 
> files ?

You can find out for sure by, for example, adding print statements:

    if maintype == 'text':
        print >>sys.stderr, "%s is text" % path
        fp = open(path)
        msg = MIMEText(fp.read(), _subtype=subtype)
        fp.close()
    print >>sys.stderr, "attaching %s" % filename
    msg.add_header('Content-Disposition', 'attachment', filename=filename)

> Which instruction says what is included in the body and what is attached to 
> the mail ?

They're all attachments with the code as written.

-- 
Steven Taschuk                            staschuk at telusplanet.net
"Our analysis begins with two outrageous benchmarks."
  -- "Implementation strategies for continuations", Clinger et al.




From bdesth.nospam at removeme.free.fr  Sun Jul 27 06:56:35 2003
From: bdesth.nospam at removeme.free.fr (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 12:56:35 +0200
Subject: Static typing
In-Reply-To: <lWAUa.25680$Gw4.21886@fe06.atl2.webusenet.com>
References: <LvdUa.905$DU.696@fe12.atl2.webusenet.com> <3f218ef1$0$27926$626a54ce@news.free.fr> <3f219c8d$1@nntp0.pdx.net> <lWAUa.25680$Gw4.21886@fe06.atl2.webusenet.com>
Message-ID: <3f23ae06$0$21093$626a54ce@news.free.fr>

Michael Muller wrote:
> Well, it appears that I have inadvertantly trolled c.l.p.  I humbly
> apologize.  I really just wanted to know what the status of the issue
> was.

I may be wrong, but I don't think anyone took your question as a troll - 
well, I didn't anyway.

> FWIW, I do favor the addition of optional static typing for the two
> reasons Scott described - interface documentation and optimization.

Interface documentation may be obtained in others ways (docstring for 
exemple). And I'm not sure static typing would optimize anything, but 
not being a Python (nor anything else) guru, I would not bet my hand on 
this...

my 2 cents...

Bruno




From vze4rx4y at verizon.net  Sat Jul 12 03:33:51 2003
From: vze4rx4y at verizon.net (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 07:33:51 GMT
Subject: Python Mystery Theatre -- Episode 1:  Exceptions
References: <UiOPa.3259$Y92.1224@nwrdny01.gnilink.net>
Message-ID: <zROPa.3366$Y92.633@nwrdny01.gnilink.net>

> Your goal is to sleuth through the code, identify what
> was expected versus what really happened, and to
> explain it briefly so that others will find it blindingly
> obvious.

P.S.  There's extra credit if you can also devine why Python
was designed/implemented with the demonstrated behaviors.


Raymond Hettinger





From c6re at sdsumus.sdstate.edu  Wed Jul 30 22:03:10 2003
From: c6re at sdsumus.sdstate.edu (Buckshot)
Date: 30 Jul 2003 19:03:10 -0700
Subject: SGI + SUN = OpenGL for Jython
Message-ID: <3a838998.0307301803.4e247823@posting.google.com>

It looks like SGI and Sun microsystems are teaming up and creating Java bindings
for OpenGL:

http://siliconvalley.internet.com/news/article.php/2241281

Sweet!  Now we'll be able to use OpenGL with Jython!



From tebeka at cs.bgu.ac.il  Sun Jul  6 06:13:31 2003
From: tebeka at cs.bgu.ac.il (Miki Tebeka)
Date: 6 Jul 2003 03:13:31 -0700
Subject: command line (WinXP)
References: <be80be$mlb$1@news.rol.ru>
Message-ID: <33803989.0307060213.10c6c252@posting.google.com>

Hello Egor,
> So, why _dir /p_ and _dir "/p"_ work not identically? Whereas _ren 1 2_ and
> _ren "1" "2"_ work identically.
In windows, the expansion of wildcards and special characters is done
by the program and not by the shell.
This means that in the first usage dir sees a /p parameter where in the 2'nd
usage it looks for a file named "/p".

HTH.
Miki



From gh at ghaering.de  Tue Jul  8 21:35:23 2003
From: gh at ghaering.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_H=E4ring?=)
Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 03:35:23 +0200
Subject: anygui newbie question
In-Reply-To: <pan.2003.07.08.17.39.44.292283@sdf-eu.org>
References: <54omgv8rb7p08uct892h6q1qck489gvoph@4ax.com>
	<pan.2003.07.08.17.39.44.292283@sdf-eu.org>
Message-ID: <3F0B715B.9090308@ghaering.de>

Geiregat Jonas wrote:
> Op Tue, 08 Jul 2003 20:29:53 -0400, schreef Gerard C Blais:
>>I'm trying to learn anygui, running on Win98. [snip problem description]
> 
> This has nothig to do with your question [...]

Then it's often worth it NOT to answer.

-- Gerhard




From hwlgw at hotmail.com  Mon Jul 21 12:48:26 2003
From: hwlgw at hotmail.com (Will Stuyvesant)
Date: 21 Jul 2003 09:48:26 -0700
Subject: How to save web pages for offline reading?
References: <cb035744.0307210131.5cfbc890@posting.google.com> <bfge1v$e6v86$1@ID-63505.news.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <cb035744.0307210848.6b1328d1@posting.google.com>

> [Thomas G?ttler]
> Does it need to be done with pyhton? 
> If not, I would use wget. It has very much features. 

I downloaded and installed (Windows binary).  The latest version
didn't work, needs some DLL I don't have and the supplied DLLs give
errors.  An old version did work.

But it downloads only the HTML, not the .GIFs in it.  There is an -A
option (from wget --help):

Recursive accept/reject:
  -A,  --accept=LIST                list of accepted extensions. 

But I don't know the syntax for LIST.  Do you?  I think adding .GIF
and .CSS to this "list" is what I want??



From clifford.wells at comcast.net  Tue Jul 22 21:59:43 2003
From: clifford.wells at comcast.net (Cliff Wells)
Date: 22 Jul 2003 18:59:43 -0700
Subject: wxPython looses function "wxPython.wx.miscc"
In-Reply-To: <3f5dc178.0307221405.db06016@posting.google.com>
References: <3f5dc178.0307221405.db06016@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <1058925583.12166.25.camel@devilbox.homelinux.net>

On Tue, 2003-07-22 at 17:54, Anand wrote:
> I am calling a python script from LabVIEW. This is achieved by making
> a dll call to python22.dll. It works perfectly well for most of my
> code. I now want to throwup dialog boxes from python. It works just
> fine if i run the code once.
> 
> but when i call the same piece of code the second time,
> wxPython.wx.miscc does not exist for some reason. I dont know how this
> gets deleted. I guess this happens during some kind of clean up. The
> code that i use for showing a dialog box is as follows:
> 
> from wxPython.wx import *
>             app = wxPySimpleApp()
>             dlg = wxMessageDialog(None, Text,
>                           'A Message Box', wxOK | wxICON_INFORMATION)
>                           #wxYES_NO | wxNO_DEFAULT | wxCANCEL |
> wxICON_INFORMATION)
>             dlg.ShowModal()
>             dlg.Destroy()
>             app.MainLoop()
> 
> when i call it the second time i get the following error:
> 
> line 1139, in showDialog
>     from wxPython.wx import *
>   File "C:\PROGRA~1\Python22\lib\site-packages\wxPython\wx.py", line
> 4, in ?
>     from misc import *
>   File "C:\PROGRA~1\Python22\Lib\site-packages\wxPython\misc.py", line
> 2, in ?
>     import miscc
> ImportError: No module named miscc

Is your wxApp.MainLoop() exiting?   I think there is some cleanup code
that happens immediately after that.

You should post your question to the wxPython list:

http://www.wxpython.org/maillist.php

Cliff

-- 
Should I stand midst the breakers, Should I lie with Death my bride?
                                                  -This Mortal Coil





From ruach at chpc.utah.edu  Thu Jul 31 15:53:09 2003
From: ruach at chpc.utah.edu (Matthew)
Date: 31 Jul 2003 12:53:09 -0700
Subject: list indexing
Message-ID: <ec1162c7.0307311153.26d1b999@posting.google.com>

Hello, I am rather new to python and I have come across a problem that
I can not find an answer to any where I my books. What I would like to
know is if there is a way to get the index number of a list element by
name. Sort of the inverse of the .index() method.

For example

list = ['this', 'is', 'a', 'list']
for item in list:
  if item = 'list':
    print ????


???? Is where I want to be able to get the index number, in this case
3 from the list in a simple fasion.


I know that I could do this

list = ['this', 'is', 'a', 'list']
counter = 0 
for item in list:
  if item = 'list':
    print counter
  else:
    counter = counter + 1

But is there an easier way?



Thanks very much
-matthew



From mcherm at mcherm.com  Thu Jul 10 15:37:32 2003
From: mcherm at mcherm.com (Michael Chermside)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 12:37:32 -0700
Subject: Deleting specific characters from a string 
Message-ID: <1057865852.3f0dc07ca3f68@mcherm.com>

The "F/bot" writes:
> I rewrote the re.sub implementation for 2.2, making it about 10 times
> faster for cases like this (compared to the 2.1 version).

I didn't realize that. I'll re-consider my opinion on the efficiency
of re for simple substitutions. And thanks for doing it!

-- Michael Chermside


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From bgailer at alum.rpi.edu  Thu Jul 17 12:51:41 2003
From: bgailer at alum.rpi.edu (Bob Gailer)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 10:51:41 -0600
Subject: Problems retrieving items from a list using a reference
  rather than an integer - can you help?
In-Reply-To: <3f16bb84@shknews01>
References: <3f15ca92@shknews01>
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20030717104805.028516c0@66.28.54.253>

At 04:05 PM 7/17/2003 +0100, Rogue9 wrote:

>After reviewing my question I realised that I should have posted the short
>piece of real code I'm working on and not tried to write some pseudo-code
>to illustrate the problem I'm having.Therefore I have printed the listing
>below which is quite short and hopefully won't annoy too many peopleabout
>the length of my post.
>
>To reiterate:
>The masterList holds the results for the UK lottery
[snip]
I sure hope you are not writing "yet another winning lottery number 
predictor". It is a sad commentary on mathematics education when 
individuals belive that one can predict the outcome of a truly random 
process based on any history. I for one certainly won't support any effort 
to further mislead people.

Bob Gailer
bgailer at alum.rpi.edu
303 442 2625
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From claird at lairds.com  Wed Jul  2 11:05:36 2003
From: claird at lairds.com (Cameron Laird)
Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 15:05:36 -0000
Subject: Technologic transitions (was: does lack of type declarations make Python unsafe?)
References: <3064b51d.0306151228.22c595e0@posting.google.com> <BUfHa.181518$g92.3608985@news2.tin.it> <bckjlc$rp3$1@news.hccnet.nl> <3EEDDA77.E9246F25@engcorp.com>
Message-ID: <vg5t601b0ioae2@corp.supernews.com>

In article <3EEDDA77.E9246F25 at engcorp.com>,
Peter Hansen  <peter at engcorp.com> wrote:
			.
			.
			.
>No roads?  What planet do you live on?  Where did the horses trot, and
>the wagons roll, and people walk?  On the sidewalks, when they were just 
>lone parallel strips of pavement running between the cities?  Of 
>*course* there were roads!  In fact, it was the previous generation
>of transportation which *made* the roads, deliberately or not, and
>cars were just an innovative way to take advantage of them.
>
>Let's see: use cases for early automobiles: they didn't get tired,
>you didn't have to smell their dirty asses as you trotted along, 
>they could go marginally faster (even at the early stage), on 
>average if not in "burst mode", probably cheaper at that point too.
>Any idea what it cost to maintain a horse and buggy in the city
>when cars came out?
			.
			.
			.
The accounting is more interesting than you might suspect.
I'll summarize by saying that a LOT of the horse->car
transition had to do with factors--often "social"--other
than the obvious technical ones.

Early automobiles were hilariously unreliable.  The rubber
tires alone--oy!  Also, it might surprise you how bad roads
were, at least intercity ones, in the US, even until World
War II.  To paraphrase one experienced friend, "They'd shake
modern cars to pieces on the first trip [expletives deleted]."

Is there a good newsgroup for engineering history?
-- 

Cameron Laird <Cameron at Lairds.com>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
Personal:  http://phaseit.net/claird/home.html



From martin_a_clausen at hotmail.com  Fri Jul 18 10:20:18 2003
From: martin_a_clausen at hotmail.com (Mars)
Date: 18 Jul 2003 07:20:18 -0700
Subject: How to identify the method that has called another method ?
Message-ID: <764b8294.0307180620.37781a4@posting.google.com>

Hi.

I am using Python 2.2.3 and new-style classes. I want to implement a
static factory method to build objects for me. My plan is to have
__init__ check that it has been called from said factory method and
not directly. Is there a elegant way of achieving this ? (and is this
a silly idea in general ?)

Regards,

Martin



From bokr at oz.net  Mon Jul 21 21:38:35 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 22 Jul 2003 01:38:35 GMT
Subject: feature request: a better str.endswith
References: <2259b0e2.0307180401.5dae02f2@posting.google.com> <mailman.1058530829.7072.python-list@python.org> <3f17f883$0$49107$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl> <2259b0e2.0307190529.57338b3f@posting.google.com> <NpkSa.16049$7O.14695@nwrdny01.gnilink.net> <2259b0e2.0307200721.16ef2ea1@posting.google.com> <45228044.0307210522.1ef95144@posting.google.com> <2259b0e2.0307210918.614892ba@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <bfi4ir$t21$0@216.39.172.122>

On 21 Jul 2003 10:18:57 -0700, mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato) wrote:
[...]
>chrisperkins37 at hotmail.com (Chris Perkins) wrote in message news:<45228044.0307210522.1ef95144 at posting.google.com>...
>> mis6 at pitt.edu (Michele Simionato) wrote in message news:<2259b0e2.0307200721.16ef2ea1 at posting.google.com>...
>> > Oops! My mistake, I forgot the islice; it should be
>> > 
>> > the=lambda pred,seq: list(itertools.islice(itertools.ifilter(pred,seq),0,1))
>> > 
>> > in such a way that we exit at the first hit, otherwise one could just use
>> > the standard "filter". 
>> 
>> How about:
>> 
>> def the(pred,seq): return True in itertools.imap(pred,seq)
>> 
>> if you really want to use the name "the" ("any" makes much more sense to me).
>> 
>> Chris
>
>
>That's a good idea, indeed. BTW, in this context I feel that
>
> if the(filename.endswith, ('.jpg','.jpeg','.gif','.png')):
>    dosomething()
>
>is more clear than 
>
> if any(filename.endswith, ('.jpg','.jpeg','.gif','.png')):
>    dosomething()
>
>which is confusing to me since it seems "any" is referred to "filename" 
>whereas it is referred to the tuple elements.
>
I think I'd prefer

  if any_true(filename.endswith, ('.jpg','.jpeg','.gif','.png')):
     dosomething()

I suspect it will more often make sense read aloud in the general

  if any_true(pred, seq):

than

  if the(pred, seq)

I guess the full set of functions might be
any_true, any_false, all_true, and all_false.

or maybe someone can think of better short phrase?

Regards,
Bengt Richter



From hanzspam at yahoo.com.au  Fri Jul  4 13:00:58 2003
From: hanzspam at yahoo.com.au (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Hannu_Kankaanp=E4=E4?=)
Date: 4 Jul 2003 10:00:58 -0700
Subject: pyBoards.com
References: <191e20c8.0307031711.42d4e46b@posting.google.com> <3f054d9a$0$13803$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net>
Message-ID: <840592e1.0307040900.14e3e668@posting.google.com>

"Guyon Mor?e" <gumuz at looze.net> wrote in message news:<3f054d9a$0$13803$4d4ebb8e at news.nl.uu.net>...
> I like the initiative for a messageboard for Python, but I think it would be
> similar to this newsgroup.... and I am quite happy with  it so I don't
> really see a use for it imho

Message boards are more user friendly, better organized (big plus) and more
interactive. At least when I post here from Google Groups, it takes
3-6 hours for the message to arrive :P. Many questions thus are answered
5 times by different people. But I don't know if the messages would arrive
quicker if I used a mail program for posting.



From newsgroups at jhrothjr.com  Sun Jul 13 11:11:18 2003
From: newsgroups at jhrothjr.com (John Roth)
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 11:11:18 -0400
Subject: Windows XP - Environment variable - Unicode
References: <3f0e77fc@epflnews.epfl.ch> <vgvtb26kob5035@news.supernews.com> <3F10795B.9000501@v.loewis.de> <vh27ooiajenv87@news.supernews.com> <m33chakd25.fsf@mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <vh2tlpbo492o6d@news.supernews.com>

"Martin v. L?wis" <martin at v.loewis.de> wrote in message
news:m33chakd25.fsf at mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de...
> "John Roth" <newsgroups at jhrothjr.com> writes:
>
> > The OP's question revolved around ***which*** code page was
> > being used internally. Windows uses Unicode. That's not the same
> > question as what code set Python uses to attempt to translate Unicode
> > into a single byte character set.
>
> Yes and no. What Windows uses is largely irrelevant, as Python does
> not use Windows here. Instead, it uses the Microsoft C library, in
> which environment variables are *not* stored in some Unicode encoding,
> when accessed through the _environ pointer.

I've found at various times that using the C library causes lots of
problems with Microsoft.

> > As to more difficult, as I said above, I haven't perused the source,
> > so I can't comment on that. If I had to do it myself, I'd probably
> > start out by always using the Unicode variant of the Windows API
> > call, and then check the type of the arguement to environ() to determine
> > which to pass back. I'm not sure whether or not I'd throw an exception
> > if the actual value couldn't be translated to the current SBCS code.
>
> Notice that os.environ is not a function, but a dictionary. So there
> is no system call involved when retrieving an environment
> variable. Instead, they are all precomputed.

Good point. That does make it somewhat harder; the routine
would have to precompute both versions, and store them with
both standard strings and unicode strings as keys. Whether the
overhead would be worth it is debatable. It's not, however,
all that difficult to understand for the user of the facility, though.
It would work exactly the same way the file functions work: if
you use a unicode key, you get a unicode result.

John Roth

>
> Regards,
> Martin
>





From ugly_411 at hotmail.com  Tue Jul 29 03:41:09 2003
From: ugly_411 at hotmail.com (W F)
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 03:41:09 -0400
Subject: VideoCapture and camera settings.
Message-ID: <BAY8-F75aendQxwZc1R000136a8@hotmail.com>

I haven't done much experimentation, so I am hoping someone will be able to 
save me the trouble.

Does anyone know how to specify quickcam settings such as exposure time and 
gain when using snapshot in VideoCapture module?

Thanks!

Wes

_________________________________________________________________
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From bokr at oz.net  Mon Jul 21 00:28:22 2003
From: bokr at oz.net (Bengt Richter)
Date: 21 Jul 2003 04:28:22 GMT
Subject: Unfortunate exception on dict item assignment (and why aren't slices hashable?)
References: <mailman.1058752171.10243.python-list@python.org>
Message-ID: <bffq56$j27$0@216.39.172.122>

On Sun, 20 Jul 2003 20:48:16 -0500, Jeff Epler <jepler at unpythonic.net> wrote:

>>>> {}[:] = None
>Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
>TypeError: unhashable type
>
>I'd have expected something like 'TypeError: unslicable type'
>meaning that you can't slice a dict, not that slice()s aren't hashable.
>
>In fact, I wonder why slices *aren't* hashable.  I can imagine wanting
>to write something like the following:
Seems like you could (untested!)
>    class X:
         from types import SliceType  # BTW, why is slice a  builtin function, not a type?
>        # ...
>        def __getitem__(self, idx):
             if isinstance(idx, self.SliceType): idx = (idx.start, idx.stop, idx.step)
             # and adjust self.calculate_xxx to match.
>            if not idx in self._cache:
>                # potentially expire an item and
>                if isinstance(idx, slice):
>                    self._cache[idx] = self.calculate_slice_expensively(idx)
>                else:
>                    self._cache[idx] = self.calculate_idx_expensively(idx)
>            return self._cache[idx]
> 
>Jeff
>

Regards,
Bengt Richter