Python should try to displace Java

[Brandon J. Van Every]

Doug Tolton wrote:
> On Tue, 12 Aug 2003 01:54:12 -0700, "Brandon J. Van Every"
> <vanevery at 3DProgrammer.com> wrote:
>
>> Doug Tolton wrote:
>>> On Mon, 11 Aug 2003 18:43:08 -0700, "Brandon J. Van Every"
>>>>
>>>> - in 5 years, nobody will be doing significant amounts of new
>>>> application development in C++.  The writing is on the wall:
>>>> garbage collection is essential.  Any C++ code will be support and
>>>> legacy libraries.
>>>
>>> That's a ridiculous blanket statement.  People will be doing C++
>>> development for a long time beyond that.  There are people still
>>> writing Cobol for crying out loud.
>>
>> Do you honestly believe that people are doing a significant amount
>> of new application development in Cobol, as opposed to maintenance
>> work?
>
> Apparently MS does, they were promoting Cobol.net pretty heavily not
> too long ago.

That's a migration strategy, not new application development.

> How are they going to crush Mozilla, Chimera or Khtml?  You keep
> touting Mindshare.  Whose mindshare is growing MS or Open Source?  If
> you can't answer that honestly then you really are trolling.

The only people who care about those are open source hackers.  The
mainstream doesn't even know what they are.

>>> That's a bold statement, considering the abysmal adoption rate of
>>> C#.
>>
>> Within Microsoft, the adoption of C# is universal.  That tends to
>> have a powerful effect on ISV Windows development over time.
>
> Really, who cares what MS does?

I see.  So when confronted with data that contradicts your Python world
view, you change from "that's not true" to "who cares?"  Contemplate it
later, when you've gotten over your first moments of denial.

> How does MS using C# affect Python?
> You have yet to establish any kind of Causal connection.
>
> Here it is straight, Python has been around going strong for over 10
> years now, inspite of lack of a corporate pimp.  Why is that?

Because Python has been a niche.  If you are content to stay in a niche,
fine.  In that sense Python will always survive.  Lisp is similarly used by
academics, hobbyists, and cranks.  If you want to grow out of the niche,
achieve mainstream industry relevance, and maintain it, then you're going to
have to market yourself against the likes of C# and Java.  Engineering merit
does *not* win as you attempt to scale up.

> I could be wrong but I didn't think OpenGL was open source.  If it
> isn't, your argument isn't really a good point then.

It's an open standard, not open source.  That said, I'm pretty sure the
OpenGL Sample Implementation is now open source.  And the Mesa workalike is
definitely open source, although I don't know why anyone cares about SW
rendering anymore.

>> Why can MS catch up?  Because Open Source people assume their
>> technological superiority and rest on their laurels.  They think
>> they don't have to market because they are technically superior.
>> Also, their ranks are populated with strong engineers who don't
>> *like* marketing, as a matter of basic personality.  They never get
>> it in their heads that they have to counter-market to some degree in
>> order to hold the line.  If you don't do any marketing, Microsoft
>> completely out-markets you and then you die, technical merit or not.
>
> Hmm...interesting point.  Too bad there is simply no factual basis for
> it.  If Microsoft completely out markets everyone and they die, why
> are there still so many Unix machines around?  The only thing that has
> made any headway against the Unix establishment is Linux.

Linux *is* marketed, unlike Python.  Meditate on that, Grasshopper.


-- 
Cheers,                         www.3DProgrammer.com
Brandon Van Every               Seattle, WA

20% of the world is real.
80% is gobbledygook we make up inside our own heads.