Making a better textbook (was Re: The Deitel book)

[Cameron Laird]

In article <mailman.1036684936.1235.python-list at python.org>,
Dave Brueck  <dave at pythonapocrypha.com> wrote:
>On Wed, 6 Nov 2002, Dave Reed wrote:
>
>> I've been using Python for my own projects (from short scripts to
>> 25,000 line apps) for almost three years now and can't imagine using
>> anything else right for anything that wasn't extremely computationally
>> expensive. After attending the panel, I talked my other colleagues
>> into using it for our CS 1 course this fall. The only thing that
>> bothers me about Python for teaching is the lack of enforced private
>> members for classes. As an experienced programmer, I can live with
>> that because I know better, but I don't know whether the students will
>> believe me when I tell them it's a bad idea to directly access them
>> outside of classes :-)
>
>Who cares if they believe you though, and why should they anyway? Part of
>becoming a good programmer is getting bit by taking shortcuts (over doing
>it the "right" way), learning from it, and moving on - and it's a great
>thing to learn through experience that the prof might actually know what 
>he's talking about! :)
>
>> I also suspect this issue may prevent other universities from seriously
>> considering Python for introductory courses.
>
>Yeah, but in reality it shouldn't. Up-and-coming programmers routinely
>ignore what we consider to be even the most basic best practices. I mean,
>what first year (or any year, for that matter!) languages force people to
>use good variable names, limit their use of global variables, avoid magic
>numbers, and stay away from creating 1000-line functions?
>
>Anyway, it was exciting for me to read your observations so far from using
>Python at the university level, especially the idea that more
>problem-solving time is being spent in "algorithm space" than "syntax
>space" (which shouldn't surprise me since that's the experience Python
>users tend to have). I'd love to hear more of what you learn as time goes
>on - please keep posting!
>
>-Dave
>
>

There's a real range in university courses.  Indeed,
a depressing number of them are still stuck at syntax
level.

Dave Reed, are you serious that decision-makers dis-
qualify Python for the lack of enforced private 
members?  Should I take it that they equally proscribe
(conventionally pre-processed) C and C++?

That sounds more hostile than I mean to be.  Alex,
maybe you can help me articulate this.  Just as it's
taken a while for the discipline to catch on that 
static type checking (as in C and Java) is an impo-
verished proxy for real validation, I have hopes
that we can eventually raise programmers' vision of
what constitutes good support for teamwork and re-use
from its present regard on misapplied encapsulation.
-- 

Cameron Laird <Cameron at Lairds.com>
Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
Personal:  http://phaseit.net/claird/home.html